The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► hello from beautiful southern california hello from very cold dark Philadelphia I [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► expect nothing less from Philly know your songs on Capp yeah well so I was in [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► as Arizona so we will I came through LA we go out to my moms place in Arizona [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► and come back through because it's such a long drive you can't really drive [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► direct from San Francisco to Phoenix cause the mountains are in the way so [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► about half way to my in Los so we spent a day here coming down and couple days [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► going back so it's a twofer all the grandparents are visible and it's pretty [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► good trip while driving though I'll come back to that something you wrote about [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► recent al-anon wanna touch with the road trip but big picture last time you were [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► on the show how ya you were here till the editorial director for Macworld from [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► 48 hours yeah yeah it was the day it was the night before the Apple event it was [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► like September 8 I think it was it was it was it the seventh I might have [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► recorded the seventh and published it [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► yeah i think thats I think that's right I remember something to do with good [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► sound like [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► gonna go up before the Apple event because nobody's going to listen to it [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► after where we were right on the cusp of the Apple event and then the Macworld [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► layoffs and everything happened the next day [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► yeah that was that was pretty funny cuz I was like I i talked to John about [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► anything I can't so what big new things are going to happen this week I'm [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► frightened well there's gonna be a new year because the earth goes around the [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► Sun and nothing we can do can stop that so it's gonna be 2015 so there's [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► something and beyond that lets hope nothing I could use a little less fewer [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► interesting events postdoc shell [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► it fascinates me though it really does because you know in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► things September is not that long ago it's you know three months [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► yet somehow your new role doing your thing at six colors and you know it all [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► seemed settled already let you know [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► settled is not quite right but it feels normal to me now that you're writing at [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► six colors and Mac world as we know it doesn't exist [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► appreciate that it's i mean one of the big things I've said this on a bike Sui [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► I wish I wasn't planning on leaving I wasn't entirely sure I mean and I said [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► on August 2010 said you directly mean you were obviously a huge inspiration [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► and Jim Dalrymple and Federico teaching and other people I know who have gone [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► out on their own John bolts and done their own websites and you know I'm some [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► podcasts and some freelance and all of that and i dont thinking about that for [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► a while and in fact a year ago I started basically putting together a home office [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► in my garage caught my eye I we had no work space in the house it's it's a [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► pretty small house and in the garage was we bought a mini van a few years ago [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► when he couldn't camper van in the garage it's too big and so the garage [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► became when we were doing our kitchen it was a place where all the junk in the [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► house when while we were redoing it and then came back in like what we do in the [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► garage I was increasingly unhappy with my job and I kept thinking you know the [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► garage needs to be home office and I started building it and the entire [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► intent was not to have really nice work at home days the intent was that that [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► would be my office eventually cause I would leave macworld and I wouldn't want [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► to at least try to do my own thing rather than go you know we'd always [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► joked one of the past president of Macworld and I joked that my coaches [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► will be the last one to turn the lights off at macro that the end mad world will [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► be just Jason in his garage [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► macworld and I had that route moment when I was watching you and Federico and [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► jim and people like that that I thought to myself well one if people can do that [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► on their own I don't need to do that here and if I'm gonna do that I want to [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► own it I wanna be that the person who does that not just kind of doing all my [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► work toward the mysterious overlords who owned a company who owns a company that [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► owns a company that owns Macworld [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► and so I was I was planning to anyway I've been thinking about it for a long [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► time for more than a year and then there was the two we we saw each other at xoxo [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► right afterward too so I I got to see you a couple of times right around that [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► crazy time I saw you at the Apple events i three times in like a week and was [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► really funny about that time is that because of the timing because we got the [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► the iPhone review units and the iPhone reviews were gonna drop the following [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► week and I had this moment where our normal person would have said I just [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► left my job of seventeen years I'm gonna take a few weeks to recalibrate decide [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► what I'm gonna do next and for me it was 18 already been thinking about what I [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► wanted to do next and to have that iPhone and was like everybody everybody [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► knows the biggest time of year for writing about Apple stuff is when the [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► new iPhone's iOS and Mac OS come out and that's now so I thought you know what I [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► don't want the site like next week and select literally less than a week after [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► I left macworld six colors launched not because I make total crazy person did [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► because I felt like I couldn't not be out there at that moment so I think it's [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► those two things that I managed to hit that site when when we were at the high [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► season for Apple stuff and because I don't think about it for so long that I [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► was ready to make it happen and that you know and it does feel in a feels great [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► to see what feels right to be doing it so I think all those things maybe feed [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► into why it feels like a natural thing and not some crazy thing that just [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► happened a couple months ago even though that's sort of what happened how long [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► were you at IDG [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► well as a macro macro seventeen years I've been doing this little more than 20 [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► coming up 21 years of sort of full-time Apple stuff that counts so it's always a [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► Mac user until 9794 297 and then what happened is that which is just hilarious [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► moment in history right 97 jobs coming back but but Apple is dying and [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► everybody's thinking now Apple's gonna go out at Macworld Expo they actually [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► have the cash infusion from Microsoft to keep the lights on and meanwhile they're [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► working on the iMac and at that moment that summer right before the bill gates [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► thing in the world expo in Boston the executives at IDG and injured Davis said [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► we need to cut our losses is gonna die and we get these two magazines in these [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► two big staff so when we just share the risk [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► put put the two organizations together lay off half of each staff and just sort [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► of stickam altogether make one magazine and what it will do that cuz albums [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► loser we really need to get out of this business was the single worst time just [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► terrible timing because you know a couple months later even it was clear [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► that Apple was gonna be probably OK and then very rapidly after that much better [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► than ok and so as a result I went over to Macworld and it was this weird [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► fifty-fifty joint venture where these two arch-enemy company is co-owned our [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► company and we read each others throats except for us and that was really [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► bizarre and then after a couple of years Davis was going through their getting [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► baden Rabat and different investors and had all sorts of financial problems [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► because the guy who started that company retired his son's didn't want to take [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► over the family business they sold it off you know it was a financial mess and [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► it was that Davis was built bills if and thus if brothers his kids were like [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► screw this media crap we're gonna be a venture capitalists and so they just [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► sold the business and they sold it to me it's kind of inside baseball but they [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► sold it to [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► I think Teddy Forstmann who was like one point had been romantically linked to [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► princess diana I mean like crazy stuff in then he sold it like a year later to [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► Masayoshi Son of Softbank in Japan who was who bought it I think Terry Forsman [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► picked up a billion dollars by holding it for a year [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► pretty good deal well good job daddy and thence South Bank talk about ancient [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► history they like just think about the basic story of picking up a billion [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► dollars by holding a monthly print magazine publisher oh yeah well I mean [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► it was not worth what must be some paid for it was a visionary but he was also [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► kind of crazy in the money he was spending was kind of crazy he said [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► around doing other stuff but anyway so that was so messed up that Davis was [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► like we want money and IDG was very much like oh well we we messed this up and we [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► want to be in the Apple business macworld was the first publication we [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► want to keep that going and so they bottomed out so the answer the question [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► is probably at IDG [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► you might start date as an employee was was twenty years but my my IDG employees [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► start date was different and that was like the end of ninety seven at the [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► beginning in ninety eight and then you know the buyout happened like around 99 [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► or 2000 so it's a weird situation where I ended up never having to fill out a [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► resume and had like worked for three different owners very strange only in [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► the media this crazy stuff like that right and you must have been really [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► really young when you started a Mac user must have been right out of college yeah [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► I I went to when I finish college I although my friends who got jobs in in [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► media were like working at weekly newspapers for like eleven thousand [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► dollars a year and I basically said forget it I'm not going to do that and [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► so I went to journalism school and although I enjoyed my time journalism [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► school [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► the fact is my my college newspaper was my journalism school and I learned how [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► to read news stories and features and edit stories all of that at the [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► newspaper the things I learned in Berkeley journalism school where they [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► didn't want to do TV news is I tried and I didn't like it and I met any contacts [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► I'm I met people including one of the editors and Mac user who taught a class [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► there and she got me an internship so I was an intern in nineteen [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► three when I was 22 and I had a job january ninety four so yeah I was 23 [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► when I started full time so I think that the historical context that you have to [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► remember is that the 96 97 was a terrible time for Apple and and a [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► terrible to even worse probably even worse than Apple itself was the [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► perception where they really were in trouble by any objective measure the [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► company was wasn't serious serious trouble both technically and financially [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► but even given that I think that the general perception was even worse that [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► it was I mean to say doom and gloom it's it's it's not you can't overstate it but [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► the perception was truly remember that I remember that we would be like to look [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► as it's not quite that bad but it was it was very much I think about this now [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► when the Apple AAPL is doomed has been a mean that's been around forever and it [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► continues to this day and on one level you know the people who make the [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► arguments today the facts of what their argument in our argument in to be stupid [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► that's not really a factor that you're not looking at the whole picture but in [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► the back of my mind I always have that moment of let's see what they're arguing [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► here because I was present at a time when doom and gloom was happening in [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► there was due and there was gloom and it at the time it did seem like it was a [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► little overstated but you know the fact was that that I don't think it was [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► overstated in that year in like 96 97 in the gill emilio and them searching for a [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► new operating system and and Steve Jobs coming in that seemed to be the point [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► where they were burning money and not selling a lot and the clones were eating [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► their lunch in terms of hardware sales so even there they're big install base [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► was not really benefiting them and that was where they were that was that was [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► when they were falling apart and and that's the area that you get the kind of [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► you know sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders kind of [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► quotes is that was a moment where it was unclear whether the executives at that [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► time were gonna listen to the advice of [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► you know analysts and pundits and like become a software company and try to be [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► Microsoft Windows and end up being like OS two and dying and and jobs to his [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► credit one of the things he did when he came back and was extremely unpopular [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► was killed the clones and say no no no we need to control the hardware we're [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► not going to just be another company we're going to control the hardware and [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► that decision actually factored into the publishing companies deciding to fold [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► Mac user into macworld was all the ad revenue is coming from those twenty [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► makers to and that just vanished Motorola power power power computing [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► Motorola super Mac which was a Humax didn't they call them super mega they [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► got that license from Apple for like scanners but it turned out they could [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► use it for anything so they called they could call them super Mac with the power [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► computing once called a power shower Powerwave Powerwave which was the which [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► was a that was my 19 apple computer that I've ever bought was a power computing [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► power wave power tower pro they had a whole bunch of power related things I I [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► never owned one but I we had a car used to couple it was when the Powerwave an [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► apparent our pro they were way better than the paramedics at the era really I [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► really do believe I mean they were all beige they were like they were great are [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► you get power computing days but they were all beige boxes but they were very [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► pretty cool they were like the essentially power computing was like [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► Dell Dell executives in in Austin and they were trying to use Dell [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► build-to-order you know you order it and then we make it and then we ship it to [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► you technologies to to cut cut their margins and have no inventory and it was [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► a pretty well run company I mean and I guess well-run enough that not only was [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► it that really the number one clone maker but it will run enough that they [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► had enough leverage of some kind that Apple just bought them out rather than [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► just letting them die [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► fight them legally exactly where we would be lawsuits for sure because I was [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► 8 or not I was there we go [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► Mac OS aid my mistake would have been to call it system system sure Mac OS aid [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► was [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► a major update and what Apple Jobs realized and his people when they came [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► back is that the clone licenses for 47 so they basically said this is and you [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► don't get it and that was how they killed the clones pretty simple really [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► nice and clean and then they ended up paying some people off including buying [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► the assets of of power computing right because the original plan for Mac was it [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► was a little bit more ambitious than what it ended up being it was more or [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► less like a nicely cleaned up version of system subsidized with that theme to [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► make it look now right [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► never underestimate how much a new window chrome can make it look like [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► something that it wasn't but here's the thing the historical context i Apple it [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► was in severe trouble and it's no surprise that if Davison IDG would make [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► a deal like that but it is funny like you said like people don't remember this [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► and I was on the outside I wasn't writing you know I wasn't writing [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► anything you know from magazines at the time yet but I was no surprise a very [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► avid reader of both Mac users macworld alter the nineties so I was aware of [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► this but that it was this weird strange bedfellows things where when the unified [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► the two it was this joint venture between the two archrival 10 publishing [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► companies with a staff comprised of the two of of half of like literally we're [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► gonna lay off half your colleagues and then we're gonna stick you with your [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► arch enemies [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► magazine good luck as the owners it was a staff we were we were the Yankees and [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► the Red Sox ok and all of its cuz I have to have to use baseball metaphors when [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► I'm on the talk show and suddenly they're like ok we're gonna release half [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► and half the Red Sox and then you can have a new team good luck make the [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► chemistry work and it was a disaster relief I was always and there weren't [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► they were very different magazines I think you know from the outside view map [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► world was little bit more staid and buttoned up informal tone coverage in [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► Mac user was a little bit more casual and more like personal computer user [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► centric you know like we're assuming that you're a little bit more likely to [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► be a home user or a student or an enthusiast and Macworld was a little bit [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► more for the professional you're using a Mac at work and it was more [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► authoritative tone it was actually the tag line was the Macintosh authority at [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► one point and and it was the prestige I mean a bigger budget Mac user was always [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► a little more homespun a little more just as a reader and I was a reader of [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► both in and before I started to Mackay is there and it was a little more of the [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► rebels and the users and people who who don't go back a farm and analog would be [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► something like a little bit Mac addict was even more so I think a rebellious [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► kind of thing but that was definitely the the voice difference between Mac [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► user and Macworld [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► which is funny because when you think about it they were like the two [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► magazines in the us- that were monthly that had roughly the same budget you [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► know the Mac users but roughly the same doing the same thing [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► their headquarters at the end there were like two blocks away from each other so [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► these are you couldn't find things that were more similar and yet the output was [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► different and the staffs were different in the culture is different so it's kind [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► of funny that even though we had all of these things in common [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► the products were different and the people were different I do think to as [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► an outside observer and someone who is very critical I thought both were [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► excellent things I agree especially compared to the other PC type magazines [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► of the year we were in the same building as like PC computing and and there was [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► also PC Mac and PC world and I didn't read them alive but yeah and Macworld [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► was full of the old man was full of people who really they wanted to be in [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► the magazine business and they they had high aspirations and you would see it [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► and at a Mac user [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► it was a combination you look at their issues when they come out you'd be like [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► oh wow look what they did with that is they did the same stories a lot of them [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► that we did right there's a new Apple product how are we gonna do it how are [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► they going to do it you could just compare which is like that is some [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► serious competition like you put it to bed and you wait two weeks and then [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► suddenly out of the mailbox comes the competition what they do and did you [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► beat them today be you and they they would you would look at some of the [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► things and be like wow that is they did a really good job other times they they [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► you know we we did someone better but then they would really do is they would [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► have these ambitions to do like like New York New York magazine industry kind of [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► stories bigger picture stories and big features and big ideas and some of those [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► were real successes for them and some of those were I would say failures that [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► we're kind of the hubris of like you know yeah we're mackerel but really we [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► might as well be vanity fair and I think that was a part of their culture their [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► where macworld that and Mac user was more you know Apple people who were [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► there because they loved writing about technology and this is not entirely true [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► of both staffs but I would take predominantly there were many more [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► people who love magazines and we're writing a technology magazine because [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► that was the job at Macworld and there were more people who were there because [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► they love the technology and happened to get a job writing about [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► magazine Mac user we were more and you saw it in the end the people who stuck [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► around covering Apple afterward and writing about tag afterward were mostly [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► people from Mac user and not dramatic world gather people from macro I [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► remember who obviously gone on to you know to continue to do great work [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► pope was a back page columnist and Steven Steven Lee video was not on staff [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► they were they were freelance columnist but yes I did a lot of the back page [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► columns you know for a while and that was that was great features for us and [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► he read the back page and and he was a pleasure to work with and I still keep [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► in touch with him was it was a pleasure to work with my plan was always to [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► figure out a way that I could get to that back page without having to do any [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► of the work of regular editorial staff for four years before published and I [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► wound up figuring out to such a way and I think I would say this into that the [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► person who to me [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► best exemplified the Mac users side of that split the fact that Andy in ATCO [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► was on was a Mac user writer time and you know talk about another guy who's [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► never been you know still at the top of his game now and still writing about the [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► same stuff but the way that his his writing is so infused with his personal [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► style right was very very Mac user [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► you know that we're just gonna let where we've got this not on our staff and [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► we're just going to let him know I mean that Mac user was it was Andy and Chris [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► Breen and Pablo vidas and I mean these are people who write with personality [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► and that was definitely the idea when I got to Macworld that was one of the [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► things that surprised me is that there was a statement that they value their [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► writers that I heard a lot but it did seem to me that it was also a machine [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► kind of generating consistent copy and what you do when you generate consistent [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► copies you also stand that voice and I would say that was much tighter on that [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► front but also had less boyce and was definitely messier [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► it was it was you know i i would say in fact you go back and look at all Mac [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► users stuff and you tell me which which Mac user macworld which one would see [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► more reasonable on a blog today it's very clear Mac user was in that they [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► were they were much looser and had more voice than that I remember arguing with [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► fellow editorial staff resign my college newspaper trucks all 94 95 96 about [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► which was better and two other guys who really really you know both India [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► braiding and pursuing careers in writing or thinking about the least and where [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► Magners and read both magazines monthly the other two guys Adam and Andrew both [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► on them out come on back roads better magazine because I think that they were [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► looking at that you know like you said like it's a little bit more like a time [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► magazine magazine polished and well as always very polished didn't like polish [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► but it it to me I'm I R good member my argument was it just seems to me like [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► the people in Mac user are having more fun doing they're having more fun [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► putting musicians out and I was like why why would you want to get into this if [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► it wasn't too have fun when I was a great I mean I still stand with those [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► people from Mac user and I i dont know I assume that the macro people stay in [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► touch too I really can't speak to that side but we were it was agreed it was a [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► great group of people and that was yeah we're very proud of our product I would [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► say that it was less polished only in in calculated ways like you wanted to look [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► a little wacky and and and be a little messier because that shows the [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► personality but it was not like we didn't know what we were doing it was [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► like you know let's that was what we were trying to do it's like a band [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► making an album that sounds raw and super produced its because you want it [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► that the effect you want and and honestly if you're if you're the number [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► two then you don't want to pretend to be number one you want to do something [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► different and that was very definitely number 22 macworld so that was what we [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► did and it's it's just funny that in the end in the end I spent 17 years old but [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► if you'd asked me the first three years I was working in the business of you go [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► Mac relate those guys [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► and and Brandon I'm most associated with in my career which is just crazy and [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► every now and then on Twitter I get there two things I get like there's an [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► alarm that goes up every three months or so somebody sends me a thing saying is [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► this you at the at the iPod announcement event because there is a reversal of the [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► audience a couple of times and I minute I'm totally yes it is me and the other [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► one that pops up is hey I was watching this rerun of friends and there's and [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► Chandler is reading an issue of Macworld and I thought you know and they think of [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► me and they're like oh isn't this cool it wasn't friends and I appreciate that [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► because of thinking of me in connection with the brand that's great I was a Mac [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► user with that episode was so pissed off at Macworld Chandler would have been a [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► Mac user guide yeah I know you could he be more of a Mac user guide but in the [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► end now I like I love it because there's a mad magazine and friends that's great [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► that would be that guy would read computer magazine that was shorthand for [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► what kind of a nerd he was and that's great but it's funny cuz that's how far [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► I've come around now is at the time it was just it infuriating cuz our [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► arch-enemy got on must see TV on NBC and now I look back and it's like a look at [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► my friends it's great it's just it you know that's what happens I end up [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► spending 17 years at what was originally the arch enemy I i imagine that's not [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► using the baseball metaphor but I imagine that's what it's like if you [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► like a giant fan and then you end up getting drafted by the Dodgers and play [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► for the Dodgers suck well you know now I'm a Dodger fan it's great but I'm not [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► there anymore and I'm here or that your son or something you know we're just [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► changes your perception after who gives a crap you know you know this plan for [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► the Red Sox you know next day you're going out you're buying a lot of Red Sox [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► and then before before we leave the subject the last thing I wanted to touch [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► on those that Apple terrible shape 96 97 print industry as a whole [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► almost unspeakable II high at that time like buchanan you think in hindsight [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► what how could that be because I think in hindsight we can all see the writing [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► was on [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► war that newspaper and magazine publishers didn't get the internet still [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► don't to a large extent and that it even if they did that way that it was gonna [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► affect advertising revenue and the time that people spend reading and how they [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► spend reading it was all going to be massively disrupted and you'd think by [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► 97 98 [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► that would have been evident but it wasn't because profits were at an [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► all-time high and I say this as someone who was at the time working as a graphic [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► designer at the philadelphia inquirer [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► they had the money was a mean that was where all the advertising was there was [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► no there was momentum on the internet people were getting interested in it but [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► there was no money would be crazy and I you know I had somebody tell me we're [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► not interested in doing a web page is the future is on compuserve I mean it [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► was just they were not there was so much money in print advertising my computer [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► shopper which was also is if Davis property when I was at the Davis that [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► was like a phone book that came out every month and all it was was adds [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► there was enough editorial to allow them to use the editorial rate when they [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► shifted in the in the post [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► postal service but it was it was not meant as an editorial product was a [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► catalog and that was just literally we just made a thing so you can put your [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► ads in this thing and then we'll send it out that we could I was the world that [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► and the reason why was because the only way that as somebody who is going to be [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► buying external hard drives or skazhi cables or printer cartridges are all of [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► the various crap that you needed to buy to keep your office running you needed [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► something like computer shopper so that you could see what was available and [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► what it costs and that was how you shop for stuff I'm when I write when the [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► macro thing happen and I was going to xoxo Patel from the birds immune email [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► and said would you like to Reddit reddit thing we're scanning about old metal [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► covers which led to read a thing about the fundamentals in prison I said sure [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► and that was that was what I ended up going with his I thought ok verges [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► audiences is pretty young they may not even remember [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► computer magazines anything because of an oddity you see in an airport or [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► something and that was the point I made was there was a time when the only way [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► you found out about a new product and the only way you found like what you [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► could buy was by buying a computer magazines like the computer magazine [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► would come out and you would you would pore over the pages to find out what [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► Apple announced tour with Microsoft announced or whatever you were [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► interested in and then in the backyard leaf through and be like you know what [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► monitor should I get or what cable can I get an you know there's an ad here for [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► you no 1 800 max and here's Mac warehouse over here in club back over [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► there and you you pour over that stuff and I did that I mean I would go through [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► those issues [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► ten twenty times parsing every sentence about which powerbook I wanted to buy [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► and parsing every list of products in the different back of the magazine [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► catalogs for the best you know the best deal on some accessory in the new colony [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► hundred-number and giving your credit card and then ship it to you and you get [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► it like five days later that was the way though the tech world worked now it's [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► really different back then that was the magazine was not the only but almost the [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► only conduit for that information [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► people just did not see the destruction coming newspapers is classified at right [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► thing needed to buy like you need to run it you got a new apartment moving out of [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► town and by September you've got to find a new place to live with the only way to [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► do it was today to use a newspaper there was there was no plan B is it was [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► essentially a monopoly just because of the you know that they were the only [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► ones maybe there's a weekly I will say the one thing that I think was a sign in [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► hindsight of the magazine stuff on the part was all of those catalogs started [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► printing you know they they started doing all their money into cadillacs [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► like we're gonna print catalog in the mail order companies just became [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► catalogs and they they they took the hit on postage in hindsight I also think [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► they should just hired a couple of young editors to wrap enough content around it [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► to call it a magazine Mac warehouse magazine but and that actually really [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► put that was the first time I think this computer magazines really felt the pain [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► of [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► of their ad revenues going down was the catalogues were like a guaranteed seller [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► for them and then suddenly they would pull out and go back down to a couple of [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► pages because you know they would they would rent the list from Macworld and [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► then send everybody who gets macworld the catalog and it was cheaper and it [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► was less money for Macworld and that totally happened so that there were some [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► signs right that things were starting to break apart and computer readers are [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► always going to be the first one to embrace that new technology so I always [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► knew that they would be the ones to we would we would feel it first and we will [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► delete it [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► yeah and it's it's the same reason why ten fifteen years ago [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► blogs first started becoming a thing that so many of them were technology [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► focus adjusted unbelievably disproportionate number of them are [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► technology focus compared to the interests of the world at large because [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► the people who are enthusiastic about technology you were able to get up and [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► that's the story of my life which is a nice job at a publisher and so when I [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► wanted to experiment with blogs I couldn't really read about technology [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► because it was my day job so you know all those great tech blogs being founded [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► then and I didn't like a stupid TV blog which was great and it was early in the [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► days of blogging and I learned a lot but that was one of those funny things that [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► I ended up experimenting in all of these other areas because my employer wasn't [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► that interested in experimenting and who's there that's you know that's why [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► do so many side projects is four years my employer wasn't interested in trying [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► those things out there were there we're looking at where all the money was [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► coming from which is that that's the core of the innovator's dilemma right is [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► very hard to focus on something when there is this giant second money rain [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► for any let me take a break and thank for sponsoring the show [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► it is our good friends at pack place you guys know back please [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► online unrivaled unlimited backup for the mac and people write to me sometimes [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► there's unlimited what do you mean and I'm town yet whatever you've got [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► connected to you [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► you've got three terabyte drive 6 terabyte drive in its all filled up with [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► junk Backblaze will back it doesn't matter they don't charge extra if you [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► have more it just takes longer for the initial backup that's if there's a catch [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► that's it that if you've got six terabytes of stuff to back up well it's [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► going to take a long time to get a backup backup backup and then it just [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► everything else is incremental after that you just install back place on your [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► Mac I can't emphasize how some pluses install it you sign up for an account [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► you don't have to pay for a month free [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► try it out everything gets backed up and then what do you do from that point [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► forward to stay backed up nothing you just keep your Mac running and it runs [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► in the background and every once in awhile just uploads what's new [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► keeps everything they've got an iPhone app so that you can access your account [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► which will get you access to anything any of your files that are back-to-back [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► plays you can just grab them from the iPhone app at any time [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► email right there from your iPhone or whatever when you're away from your Mac [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► so it's got plenty of uses that are not just about catastrophic oh my God my [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► whole computer is broken [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► whole hard drive froze up I've got nothing I need to restore everything [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► they can deal with that but it's also useful for just restoring one file at a [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► time when you're on the road at somewhere else and you just need to grab [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► it could not be more useful either way when you do need a full thing if you [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► need your whole system restored you don't have to wait to download the whole [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► thing you can you can pay a little bit of money and put everything on a USB [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► hard drive and overnight it to you and then boom they are the next day with [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► hard drive with all of your stuff unbelievable peace of mind knowing [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► you've got everything backed up offline out of your house out of your office [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► where do you go to find out more I can't believe there's still people who listen [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► to the show [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► haven't signed up here's where you go go to Backblaze dot com slash daring [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► fireball you get a risk-free no credit card required trial just install it try [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► it I guarantee you you'll sign up and then after that here's what you pay you [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► pay five bucks a month per Mac that you're backing up that's it [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► five bucks a month everything backed up so my thanks to back place just a [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► tremendous tremendous service really I say that before I say it again I hope [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► they stop sponsoring the show because everybody who listens to the show signed [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► up for them at some point which brings me to a post you had on 66 colors this [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► week about sponsorship that in Goa which you say no other gatekeeper but me and [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► you wrote there one of the privileges of being an editor that before you don't [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► have to worry about that there really was a separation between editorial and [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► sales [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► you know that you just worried about you guys on the editorial side just worried [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► about where you gonna write about and yet to sell stuff that's old stuff and [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► you know in theory told that in theory they could have sold an ad that you guys [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► were you know some somehow uncomfortable with than you could have had a [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► discussion or whatever but for the most part you didn't need to worry about it [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► but now as one person publishing company [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► you do yeah there was a turns out there is a great luxury in being able to be an [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► editor at large organization and winsome that is selling me like we had a bunch [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► of like DVD Ripper apps that were you know spamming or forums and writing [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► these fake post native add posts about that were posing as how to use but it [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► was for their software industry awful gently stuff and we had the luxury of [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► being behind the scenes we would complain about that but we also the [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► luxury of saying hey guys it's not us [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► you know we have sales people they don't tell us what to write and we don't tell [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► them what to sell and when you are in my position and your position I mean you've [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► got right now I don't have anybody selling spots for me but that might [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► happen down the road [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► my recording dial me know you've got somebody said something about it still [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► small operations like you you get you and maybe Dave working on an ad sales [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► and and you know it comes to you you're the proprietor even if you've got [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► somebody selling for you and with podcasts like this when I have somebody [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► to lean on my podcaster you do when you've got your the proprietor [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► even if you've got somebody selling it and you have to make that decision you [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► have to say is okay and and so even if it's not you know every ad is not a [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► personal endorsement and you can't have somebody say that to me and I wrote [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► about it [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► posts like i dont another developer but I know I can look at a developer service [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► or tool and say that's too seems good to me that seems on the up-and-up it's [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► worth it if it's with the audience yeah you can't have you can't have it like I [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► know it sounds great that you would only take a sponsorship from a service or [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► product that you actually use and the deck for a while maybe they still even [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► say that but then with the decades of big 30 site network and its not that [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► hard to say that somebody somewhere in the network is using this thing but when [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► it's just you and it's just me I can't do that now and and it's not even fair [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► like I used BB code something up I used when I accept a sponsorship from Kota of [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► course I would code is an amazing out from a great company and in theory I [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► maybe someday I would use it as my criteria is is this something that I [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► would recommend because I use it that that criteria isn't too limiting is this [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► something that I would recommend readers investigate and consider yes absolutely [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► that's right criteria and has to cross it has a little harder to define but it [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► has to cross that level to be [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► something you feel comfortable on one level it's just to be comfortable with [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► it and say I think this is a legitimate product all that again I don't wanna [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► throw the guys under the bus who did that sponsorship of the fact it and they [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► have a story and I think part of the problem is a language barrier and [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► although I'm skeptical of that product and tell iris products including iOS [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► computer virus that seems really shady to me and they have you know again they [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► have a marketing story that I think they're not telling effectively but the [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► bottom line was I don't believe in iOS antivirus I don't think that's a thing [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► and I don't think I think my audience doesn't think that's the thing and I'm [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► skeptical about Mac antivirus but at least I'm a little more open minded [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► about that and so when it when I posted this thing which you know I didn't I [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► didn't read the stuff closely when I gotta cuz I was traveling and I put it [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► up in like before as I was going out the door and then people started saying what [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► the hell is this and I you know I didn't have an answer for them and that was [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► that moment you know if i dont can't conceive of somebody asking me and me [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► having an answer that's probably not a product as if I'm not comfortable [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► standing by it to that point not saying I tried it not like it but I think this [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► is a reasonable reasonable person would think that this product is interesting [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► and you should check it out that that to me would be the difference and so you [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► know while sitting in the passenger seat of my car i didnt blew up while I drove [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► the first leg of the second leg and I opened up my phone unlike OG's and in [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► the course of an hour I responded to the tweets about it look more at at at at [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► the company's responses thought about it a little bit and then I actually opened [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► up you know I transmit for iOS and edited the include file for the sponsor [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► my server and I took it out and i deleted their post and I posted a tweet [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► about it and I sent an email to the guy saying look I'm gonna get a refund your [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► money but I'm not going to I'm not gonna run the ad cause I'm not comfortable [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► with it my audience is comfortable with it and actually got a text from Lex [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► Friedman saying what it what if I what if I sell that spot for you I said sure [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► go ahead [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► you want to sell it and he did and I posted the new ad all all from sitting [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► in the [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► passenger seat of my car my phone which is a pretty fun like technology story [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► but but yeah it was it was educational I couldn't run and hide behind the sales [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► people and you're you're in the exact same boat and Jim Dalrymple is in the [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► same boat all of us who are out here doing this thing we aren't we aren't [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► insulated like so we have to make different rules and and there is an [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► expectation that some people have that when we read an ad on podcaster or post [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► a sponsor on our sites that it's a personal endorsement and what I will say [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► is if I have used the product I will and I want to talk about that I will talk [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► about it but you're not your money doesn't buy my personal endorsement my [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► personal endorsement can't be for sale that's the flip side of the family is [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► impractical to try every product and not every product is for you even though you [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► know what's good [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► the flip side is I want the freedom to evaluate every product that I want to [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► and if I'm selling evaluations that calls the whole thing into questions you [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► have to you know those rules are very different than if you're in a big [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► editorial organization we still have to kind of come up with the rules and tried [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► to disclose them to your audience as best you can I think but it was a good [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► lesson for me I'll tell you that antivirus falls into it interesting [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► crevice it's a close call and and I would say that the sibling antivirus our [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► system clean up utilities oh yeah yeah and I don't think I've ever taken a [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► sponsorship for a antivirus because I really do believe strongly that you not [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► only don't need it on a Mac but you actually caught typically cause more [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► harm than good [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► really do believe that and you know for iOS that even more so I think it's at [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► that point you're talking about snake oil [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► now there's possible you know I don't know the case of this month so you're [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► talking about it possible that you could use something on iOS that would have [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► something to do with antivirus where you're scanning email attachments [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► somehow I think that's what they're doing is this attachment in your email [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► and maybe in your Dropbox or stuff like that right [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► viruses but it's not going to affect your your iOS device right it's not so [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► hard for me to come up with a what if scenario where it would have some actual [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► practical utility in theory but I don't see how it exactly it's not actually [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► doing anti piracy at the system level on iOS like what you think of traditional [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► and simplified a marketing message and its protect your right your iPhone and [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► that's not right and that's that's I think that's where a lot of this this [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► comes from and they clean up utilities are to me it's a little bit more like [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► the antivirus to me is a little bit more on the dark side of the gray area and [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► the cleanup utilities are little bit more on the light side but I have have [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► have had sponsors who run you know clean up utilities and I think it's been [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► awhile I remember somebody on Twitter one time just you know they weren't [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► being antagonistic they weren't trying to to to jab me but it was an honest [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► question nearly do you use this would you recommend it and I remember thinking [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► like probably not and I kind of felt a little like I didn't take the [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► sponsorship back and I don't quite regret it but it was closest I've ever [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► come because I wasn't sure because I don't think a lot of that stuff is all [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► that useful either I feel like part of the genius of the OS 10 system design is [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► that you don't typically get the system doesn't degrade over time did happen [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► with classic Mac OS in if you weren't careful they want a Mac I mean so many [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► of these things happen because it's like we have a problem with an injury product [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► we need products and they can't really do much but they want to have that that [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► spread of products and so they come out with one although you know clean up [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► especially with SSDs there's totally and they may be out there but it's totally a [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► good case to be made for clean that's doing smart things like you got [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► preferences from [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► apps from 2004 that you that you migrated and you've got duplicate files [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► in all these different places and you get iTunes Match turned on but like so I [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► could save a lot of space by deleting your music folder stuff like that there [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► there is an argument to be made but you're right then you get into details [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► until I can do I really believe in this particular product enough to not enough [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► to endorse it but enough to expose my audience to it that cause there is there [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► is some understanding between between us and our audiences that some of the stuff [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► going to be vetted at least right on the up-and-up right not necessarily we [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► endorse it news personally but it's on the up and up and I i think thats right [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► I think they should expect that from us that the next date all the way back to [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► next but that the cocoa preferences system is so braindead super simple it's [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► you know it's not genius because it's this complicated genius system it's [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► genius because just simple it's like one of the simplest stupidest things they [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► could do where each app has a unique identifier and they just use domain name [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► so like you know like bare-bones its com dot bare-bones . BBEdit yeah . plist [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► file goes in your library preferences folder and it's guaranteed to be unique [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► because that domain name belongs to bare bones that they get to control that you [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► know there's com dot Apple . male for male and it's just a file and the app [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► reads from that file and your preferences and if you delete BBEdit and [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► that com dot bare-bones . you to delete the app that files is sitting there it's [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► only a couple hundred kilobytes and it never gets in the way it's not like a [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► database that's getting gummed up it's just a file in the folder in your you [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► know there is no harm so if you've tried fifty different text editors and then [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► settled on one those 49 preferences files in your preferences folder don't [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► slow a damn thing down [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► know it's gonna be when you get adobe cs4 and cs5 cs6 in there or on the other [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► hand like something like well I never use GarageBand so I delete the garage [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► band that man has a four hundred mega loops and loops yeah there's there's so [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► there's like a huge Application Support folder relatively huge compared to most [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► ads that you know and again if you're on an SSD and space is at a premium because [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► you know like the default SSD is still a 256 gigabytes you could save some [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► serious space and it's hidden away now that the library folders invisible by [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► the fall [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► foremost you know 44 new user accounts it's not something you know I can see [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► how a cleaning utility could actually help like a typical user if it was [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► carefully written you know but it's a borderline call can I tell you about my [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► favorite my favorite preference joke at Adobe of course there is in mind me [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► being yours too I don't know in my user library folder so guilty / library [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► there's a folder the Application Support folder right which is where you're [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► supposed to read all your folders I reread your preference files I also have [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► a folder in my library called application support / Adobe / Acrobat as [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► the name of the folder I don't even know that I didn't even know that was allowed [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► to have / as in a in a folder named but somehow they did it [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► you magnificent bastard who did it and I just makes me want to delete it and yet [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► every time I see it it just makes me laugh like how incompetent is that good [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► job here in the Application Support folder totally nailed it [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► screenshot it's it's super nerdy [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► but that was actually went when when the next acquisition was made and where we [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► gonna make one operating system with the best of everything one of the problems [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► was next was a traditional UNIX system that uses / as the directory separator [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► so / was not a backslash but you know / was something that you couldn't put into [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► a file named her folder named you try to type it would give you a minus or [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► something right but HFS Apple disc format where circus oh well whatever HFS [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► used system file system used a colon colon was the separate raids are you [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► couldn't type of colon in a name so you could type slashes and sauce you know [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► like a publication you might preach [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► issue of a newspaper a weekly newspaper I think maybe we did you know it would [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► be like you know month / week month or year / month / date and so we had all [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► these things that slashes in the actual file names and there was seem like [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► something's gotta give here but there was a white paper he wrote it but I met [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► him [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► there's an ex engineer wrote a white papers figuring out a way to is [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► conveniently solve it [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► bottom line you know the bottom line the penalty we had to pay is that you can't [TS]

00:50:48 ◼   ► have a colon or a slashing funding for real but you can look it looks like you [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► have a slash in filename it somehow is fake like when it looks like you're / in [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► a filename it's not a slash of it but it all worked out it actually did work out [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► we had we had that we have a catastrophe where we we we did that we at some point [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► at Macworld changed our founding form it used to be the volume number in the [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► issue numbers so it'd be like 16 / 04 and that was the whatever that was April [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► of cd4 + 16 Friday April 2000 issue and when I was 10 and we moved in Malta [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► dashes because we are afraid there was a period where I was 10 would not let you [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► input the / it would it would transmog refine it on the fly to a dash dash is [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► where dangerous and to this day my scripts I have to do a lot of you know [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► POSIX path stuff because if you get if you get an alias in the Finder it comes [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► in with colon delimited and then there are other tools that wanted as a as a as [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► a UNIX path of POSIX path and you have to do like POSIX pass path of alias in [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► order to get it in the right format so that you can you can send it to a script [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► or something [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► yeah I don't think anybody is is more familiar with the crazy rules over how [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► to specify HFS versus you passed than anybody's really Apple script it's why [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► is this not working right [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► now it needs to be in a UNIX [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► inevitably without a script boy we are in the weeds now you you used to shell [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► script which is an incredible Boone Apple script to be able to fire off a [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► unix script and get a result that it's great but if you're using something in [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► the Finder UNIX shell script doesn't understand those Collins so you need to [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► convert it and then you sent it off and so that yeah that happens all the time [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► yeah I do that with markdown actually that that was one of the things I would [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► always do is i'd like grab something in return marked down and get the results [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► back that you got to get the right to wear what we talked about before file [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► system well all days next couple sponsors sponsored conflicts I think [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► that's where ya i think thats probably I remember in the early days of doin [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► sponsorships during fireball weekly one that I was telling myself the first [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► conflict I can remember having was in this is the time to remember it for a [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► brief period there was some controversy over app bundles oh yeah yeah definitely [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► you know like those you would like and I [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► come out sort of against him as sort of devaluing software at least the extreme [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► ones really getting you know an inordinate amount of software for a [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► seemingly absurd low price and then a bundle wanted to sponsor them fireball [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► and I don't know I was very active member which bundle it was but I was [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► very conflicted because I felt like on the one hand I've just written against [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► them but on the other hand you know it's a good deal it is what it is you know [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► and nobody you know it's not like the bundles were putting these absent the [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► bundles without their permission was you know i think im wind up going with it I [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► did it I took it because I thought you know it's in some sense you you have to [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► be the publisher you know every publication there never really was a [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► wall between editorial and advertising even a big organization it might have [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► seemed like a wall in the trenches yes but eventually you work up the check the [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► chain and there's a person whose responsibility and are typically their [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► title was like publisher certainly newspaper industry that was the title is [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► somebody who is concerned with both things for me I mean that's what I was [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► said about my job is that i sat on that i sat on the top of the wall and as I [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► got to shield my people from the stuff that was happening on the other side of [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► the world's best I could but my boss was the president of the company and the [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► head of city was either the head of sales themselves or the head of sales [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► reported to them and at that level you know they were always conversations now [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► again my job was to kind of steer them in the right direction and protect my [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► people from it but you know ultimately yes if you have if you have a business [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► the business people are going to have demands that they're going to want to [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► make and then it becomes part of the game to negotiate and get things back in [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► a in a place that everybody can live with that is not you know for the [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► editorial side that is it was always part of my job at the top is harder you [TS]

00:56:01 ◼   ► know what you're saying it's like now it's all exposed this is it's this guy [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► here the guy you gotta you gotta do it you gotta you gotta make that decision [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► right but overall you know in seven years ish 78 years of selling weekly [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► sponsorships there have been very few times where it's come up i mean NNN [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► never even been very few times that I've had to reject a sponsor seems like they [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► know I'm hoping I'm hoping that actually is a part of this it's partly me and [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► it's also partly just in the environment that it's it's [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► I'm hoping it doesn't happen this was one out of like 16 [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► don't even know what twelve weeks 10 to 14 weeks something like that [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► well and like I said you I really do think that antivirus and cleaning [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► utilities are sort of especially in and I said darker side is the antivirus are [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► exception that there are can't think of any other topic you know it's sort of [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► advertiser that in that area well I could say I could see him again I don't [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► think I would come down on the side of not running out for them but you know [TS]

00:57:08 ◼   ► there are a lot of a lot of memes that go through our our community and our [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► audiences as they enter all interconnected right i the thing with [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► six colors when I see you post a link and I'm like well I could post a link to [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► that but everybody's reading John sites or do I even need to bother actually [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► just like to join LinkedIn page [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► think about it you know we are all kind of in the same ecosystem together and [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► there are some of the means that come out like there's the whole you know if [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► you're not paying for the product and then you're the you're what they're [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► selling and I could see something like that coming up where there's some [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► products that is going to sponsor you and what they're really wanting [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► obviously it's free and isn't it great and i could see people being like hey [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► that's you know that's no good there's this other developers trying to sell it [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► these guys are doing it free and they're just gonna get our information and all [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► that I could see scenario like that although it doesn't seem to have come up [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► up to now but I could I could see something like that that would be [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► unpopular with part of the community because it seems to be the kind of thing [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► that we all rail against like what you were saying about the app bundle but I [TS]

00:58:09 ◼   ► think it's encouraging that you haven't seen a lot of [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► that and it's and it's good but i i think it's worth you know this is so [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► inside baseball but I think it's worth people hearing that it's not like we [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► don't think about these issues and take them seriously and honestly I think [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► that's one of the downsides of the big organizations with the separation of [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► church and state is there's a clear message and I think people even get [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► trained to expected from everybody [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► which is you know we don't care like the editors of the ones you talk to have no [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► power [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► you never hear you never talk to the salespeople the organization doesn't [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► really care less if they were serious black eye for the organization and so [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► you know why even bother they're just gonna be crazy stuff against advertised [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► and with us you know we do take it seriously and that's no that's not true [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► that's not how we wanted to be i mean there's also reason that our sites don't [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► have junk all over them because that's crappy but some big organizations have [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► no problem [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► littering their sites with with junk Jay Rosen whose teaches journalism at NYU [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► and you know big presence in sort of the whole inside baseball world of online [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► journalism but I think he said I want to put words in his mouth but something to [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► the effect of if you work at a publication doesn't matter whether it's [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► print or online or both or whether it's new or old but if it's big enough you [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► know that it's not just like a one person but it's big and you can you can [TS]

00:59:32 ◼   ► be isolated and just concentrate on editorial if you don't understand the [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► business model of the publication years [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► screwed you're not you're not being responsible and you're probably screwed [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► it all the way he freezes you should quit your job which is probably a little [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► extreme but she's not wrong that you should you should understand why your [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► company does what it does and what decisions they're making and whether [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► they're good or not and you know i over the years I have been fortunate to work [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► with a bunch of incredibly talented people but what I will say is I was [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► always surprised at how some incredibly intelligent talented people [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► would have no conception about how parts of our business worked even though some [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► of that was communicated fairly clearly and some of that has to do with frame of [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► reference and some of that has to do with not wanting to hear it does if [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► you're trained as a journalist and you hear from the sales guys in the business [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► people it's very easy to put that in the box is like that's not my concern in [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► fact it's my duty tonight even pay attention to that the lowest surprise me [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► that I would hear even up to the end and one of the things rosen points out to is [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► that you need to know the difference between what product people refer to as [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► product and what editorial people refer to as product which is super important [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► because the media today so much of what happens at these sites is based on the [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► product roadmap and product managers and developers and you know the product is [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► not just the words on the website the product is the features of the website [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► in the design of the website and and and tools that editors can use to build [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► things on the web site and if you're thinking of the product is being what [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► you write or as product is being some weird amorphous sales thing you are you [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► have a really distorted view of what your businesses and that's probably not [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► but probably not a healthy place to be and I would have that where I would have [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► people talking about a charter or developers or marketing people people [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► not in ad sales and the end people who'd been at the company for a long time [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► would say oh well those are you know their sales people say no they're not [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► sales people there there are other parts of the business that our editorial but [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► they're not salespeople and you know that I understand why people would [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► cultivate a simplified you in the sense of like I just don't wanna hear it I [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► don't want to know about it but in reality I think it is a good thing to [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► know about that stuff and understand it and understand your place in it and then [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► if it doesn't make you comfortable it certainly makes you a better judge of [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► whether the decisions or businesses making our solid or are bad or desperate [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► and if you are in any position to determine what kind of stuff is going to [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► go in the product right then knowing where your business going to actually [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► help you can actually get some good ideas or helps have a bigger voice in [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► deciding what [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► what gets built next so I i dont have peace while a little bit I P and saying [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► you should quit your job as a little bit rich he's not wrong about a lot of those [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► points that you really should understand the business the European yeah I think [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► he he has a sort of battered to overstated and understated style yeah [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► without without going into sensation trying to communicate some of the stuff [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► I mean like I said some of this europe you're trying to battle against Lowell I [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► don't wanna hear it it's not my job it's in the business side I'm an editor I [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► need to hear it you kind of do need to shout sometimes I know pay attention to [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► this especially something like the difference between what you know [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► product I mean that that's come up in a bunch of cases where people have angrily [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► left various websites startups who are editorial people like oh they're just [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► there just in it for the product and it's like i dealt with the end Aaron and [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► I G I worked with a really great product manager and he and I spent a lot of time [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► talking about ways we could improve the product unfortunately most of those [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► things never got prioritized but that was a great experience because we were [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► working together [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► editorial and product management to identify things that would make the [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► website better and and and sometimes it's better to refer to it that way than [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► to say the product because that sounds a little bit like you're selling something [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► but the fact is you know my editors were frustrated by the fact that all they [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► could really do is put texts in the CMS and why can't we do this and why can't [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► we do that and the answer was what we could do that if we worked with the [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► product group but you gotta speak their language and that is a challenge so I i [TS]

01:03:56 ◼   ► appreciate when we're sort of waves his hand like hey pay attention this is [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► really important because a lot of people in journalism don't want to hear that [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► they want to just work and it's a natural response right now I'm just [TS]

01:04:09 ◼   ► gonna do my thing that I'm comfortable with but I think it leads to bad bad [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► places I think it's it's a dangerous dangerous to use the word religion but I [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► do feel like casual way it [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► the belief that if you're a journalist that you should almost like obligated [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► and a moral sense to not pay attention to the business side was ingrained in at [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► least a generation maybe several generations especially at a ton of its [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► especially us' centric or not but it certainly seems owned the newspaper [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► industry that it was just almost almost religious that it was you know and and [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► it was only sustainable because newspapers worst said they had a [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► monopoly they were incredibly profits a license to print money I remember when I [TS]

01:05:01 ◼   ► was at the enquirer there was a time where they had in this is an elite [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► nineties where they had buyouts because they had a quarter where their profit [TS]

01:05:12 ◼   ► margin was 19% they were at the inquiry was a knight-ridder paper and they were [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► so they 20% less like this [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► red line in the sand you know a line in the sand and you know they did they [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► dipped to nineteen and a relay instantly went into red alert sirens went off and [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► they like but people out and it was crazy like this [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► an East Coast thing called Metro its free daily newspaper I don't know if [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► they're still around here in Philly but it was they they were a FREE daily and [TS]

01:05:52 ◼   ► they set up most of the kiosks commuter entrances subway entrances bus stops not [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► real thick but you know you know it was definitely a competitor to you know the [TS]

01:06:06 ◼   ► enquirer in the daily news and you know because if you could read the Metro for [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► free and finna no finish it before you got where you're going you had no reason [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► to buy the Inquirer Daily News [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► and it led to a crazy scenarios like the guy who is in charge I i as do graphic [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► design work I did I worked with a lot of the classified advertising people and [TS]

01:06:28 ◼   ► did a lot of the promotional stuff that they needed to sell to give to people [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► like the guy was a great guy forget his name but he was in charge of auto [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► advertising classified advertising which is huge huge huge business took the [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► buyout which was like two or three years salary and a week later he took the job [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► is the automotive a guy at Metro at the Metro like and it was like they just [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► paid him three years salary to go and start selling ads at a rival while they [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► were still incredibly profitable I mean I've definitely experienced the layoffs [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► while we're profitable where the where the business people alike know we're [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► profitable we're gonna make a profit or profitable and then they lay off 10 [TS]

01:07:13 ◼   ► people and there is nothing worse than saying you can't work here anymore [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► because we're not quite making enough profit and that's a disconnected [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► business i mean they're their businesses that are all about looking for growth [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► and investment and their businesses that are just trying to be sustainable [TS]

01:07:27 ◼   ► profitable businesses that can employ a bunch of people and and that too is part [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► of the disconnect of like not understanding what kind of business you [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► work for and what their metrics are not on a very detailed level of like what's [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► the bonus that structure for the sales people but to understand like what are [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► they looking for and you know what what are they what do they expect from us and [TS]

01:07:48 ◼   ► what's the growth in some some of that is has to come from the top and you know [TS]

01:07:53 ◼   ► in my years I would get a very varying degree of that depending on who the CEO [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► was of you know what we show the employees and do a varying degree the [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► employees wanted to or didn't want to hear it but I think it's just a [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► dangerous situation to be into not understand what kind of company you're [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► working for and what they're what their goals are any knight-ridder at least it [TS]

01:08:12 ◼   ► was clear that 20% was the line and if you weren't showing 20 percent profit [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► margin that was that was red alert time boys and I think I think the danger [TS]

01:08:22 ◼   ► there is that it seems very clear like because I wasn't involved I wasn't gonna [TS]

01:08:27 ◼   ► be my career is tied it wasn't there [TS]

01:08:28 ◼   ► even full time I was always like a contractor but I loved the business and [TS]

01:08:33 ◼   ► you know I loved it but my view from Mike the ground floor and just looking [TS]

01:08:37 ◼   ► at the whole thing was that it was so clear to me once I got in and sort of [TS]

01:08:41 ◼   ► got the gist of how will it require around at the time that the people who [TS]

01:08:47 ◼   ► are it in that building working on a newspaper where incredible people I [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► absolutely amazing people I forget the exact years but there is a stretch from [TS]

01:08:58 ◼   ► Mike the mid-eighties to mid nineties were the philadelphia inquirer one more [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► Pulitzer Prizes than any newspaper in the us- it was a tremendous tremendously [TS]

01:09:09 ◼   ► and eventually all these this great talented and wound up working at the New [TS]

01:09:13 ◼   ► York Times and The Washington Post Newsweek and Time they dealt to my house [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► and went to these other places but at the time it was amazing and they you [TS]

01:09:21 ◼   ► know we're dedicated to the craft and dedicated to the civic duty of a [TS]

01:09:26 ◼   ► newspaper in a big metropolitan city and all this stuff but it was so clear that [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► knight-ridder was intended as a corporate of corporate parent didn't [TS]

01:09:34 ◼   ► give two shits if they were selling widgets or newspapers or whatever as [TS]

01:09:41 ◼   ► long as they hit that 20 percent profit growth didn't matter what they were [TS]

01:09:44 ◼   ► doing had no no no no lover interest in what it meant actually be making a [TS]

01:09:50 ◼   ► newspaper and and you know like we were saying when you're when you get the [TS]

01:09:54 ◼   ► license print money you can it's a little bit easier to be blissfully [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► ignorant but I i you know I think again somebody could listen to this podcast [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► and say aha [TS]

01:10:03 ◼   ► here they are they're all admitting that that journalism is not truly objective [TS]

01:10:07 ◼   ► it's actually affected by what the business does well you know the truth is [TS]

01:10:11 ◼   ► of course it is unless you are consumer reports or something and even then you [TS]

01:10:16 ◼   ► have the objective of getting donations and if you don't get them you can't stay [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► in business there is always a fundamental precept of the media [TS]

01:10:24 ◼   ► business about what they're doing and and what the why they're doing it in [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► like a sports writer at The Philadelphia Inquirer who is from san francisco can't [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► say you know I'm sudden I'm gonna read about the Giants right it's like no no [TS]

01:10:38 ◼   ► we're in the business of covering Philadelphia and I got that when I went [TS]

01:10:41 ◼   ► to me [TS]

01:10:42 ◼   ► user they told me like Apple's big in education but we're not targeting [TS]

01:10:45 ◼   ► education and like that was that was the target market our target market market [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► wasn't the Mac and it was it was the business market primarily and then [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► secondarily you know other users using it at home but not education why was [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► that because they didn't spend a lot of money and those advertisers to advertise [TS]

01:11:02 ◼   ► in want to reach them because of that and yeah that was that was focusing what [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► we could write about but you know that's just a fundamental business constraint [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► what you know the subjectivity comes on like on the inside of those constraints [TS]

01:11:14 ◼   ► like this is what this publication is this what this website years whatever it [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► is and then within their I need to be free to make the decisions about the [TS]

01:11:21 ◼   ► best way to serve that audience but how do you choose the audience in large part [TS]

01:11:25 ◼   ► in most of these businesses is your choosing an audience you can make money [TS]

01:11:29 ◼   ► selling at stew and that's okay but that is a fundamental thing that I mean [TS]

01:11:34 ◼   ► journalistic freedom only go so far there is a fundamental precept of your [TS]

01:11:39 ◼   ► business that you do need to follow as much as that guy might like to read [TS]

01:11:42 ◼   ► about if not the Giants might read about darts or Canadian football or whatever [TS]

01:11:47 ◼   ► it's like that's not what you're here to do that's not who we serve with with the [TS]

01:11:51 ◼   ► Philadelphia Inquirer yeah and you have to be able to you know even even in our [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► lean mean you know one person type operations like six colors are down [TS]

01:12:02 ◼   ► fireball is to have to be able to you know do it in a way that makes sense [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► financially and and the thing that makes me think about that so in a whole it you [TS]

01:12:11 ◼   ► know ten fifteen years you could very very feasible to just run a weblog out [TS]

01:12:17 ◼   ► of your pocket you know I think I could I forget what I pay per month for doing [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► really wanted to go for it if I just wanted to do it without any sponsorships [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► are ads or any revenue at all even with the readership I have a think it would [TS]

01:12:30 ◼   ► be like $100 a month maybe maybe I could probably find a way you could certainly [TS]

01:12:35 ◼   ► do it for 50 I'm paying 50 and I'm running club herbal in six colors on the [TS]

01:12:39 ◼   ► saves same server for $50 a month that's not a problem [TS]

01:12:43 ◼   ► yeah but the reason that Pakistan has exploding has exploded recently is that [TS]

01:12:47 ◼   ► until recently it was financially unfeasible there is no way [TS]

01:12:51 ◼   ► way it doesn't seem like that long ago when I started during fireball but it is [TS]

01:12:55 ◼   ► just no way financially that in 2002 2003 2004 that I could distribute 100 [TS]

01:13:01 ◼   ► 200 megabyte mp3 files to thousands of people what is it would have cost [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► thousands and thousands of dollars and even a couple years ago I think that [TS]

01:13:10 ◼   ► would be the case [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► know it's it it that the rise and podcasting correlates exactly two when [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► it became financially pretty cheap yes through order lipson or Squarespace or [TS]

01:13:24 ◼   ► or through a hosting company that gives you a terabyte of data for $50 a month [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► that sort of thing right but until recently there was there was no such [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► thing [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► the bandwidth limits where you know in the low gigabytes or even the high you [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► know hundreds of megabytes and so if your files are you know typical podcast [TS]

01:13:45 ◼   ► for the show's somewhere around 200 megabytes but sometimes a little ass [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► sometimes a little more depending on how long it is but you know every hundred [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► people at 210 people adds up soon as a pre-release as I didn't I did the math [TS]

01:14:00 ◼   ► when we were pulling me uncomfortable off of five by five and I was trying to [TS]

01:14:04 ◼   ► figure out whether we would post that on our own server whether we wanted to use [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► a CD and for it and and I did the math and I was like wow that's a lot of data [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► just on a regular episode of a moderately popular podcast it's a it's a [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► just in five years ago terms an impossible amount of data and tossed [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► aside it wasn't even something people would tolerate you know when they were [TS]

01:14:25 ◼   ► connecting with very slow connections they might think I'd like to listen to [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► that but Jesus it's going to take on a $2 yeah I remember those days of like [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► you know leave them leave the mask on downloading podcasts and iTunes can take [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► forever right but you really need to understand stuff like that you know you [TS]

01:14:41 ◼   ► need to know that if you gonna do video you're probably gonna have to hosted [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► YouTube or something like that just because that way you don't have to pay [TS]

01:14:47 ◼   ► the bill can you better know what the terms are your YouTube then and you know [TS]

01:14:51 ◼   ► you gonna [TS]

01:14:52 ◼   ► use YouTube's ads and what percentage do you get is that gonna you know how many [TS]

01:14:56 ◼   ► people do you need to get is doing YouTube video for you to be able to make [TS]

01:14:59 ◼   ► a living doing math right yeah you know it's not too complicated but you've got [TS]

01:15:04 ◼   ► to there's there's all these abstractions r you can't pretend that [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► these things don't exist to worry about them that it doesn't work like that let [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► me take a break good time to take a break and thank another longtime friend [TS]

01:15:17 ◼   ► of the show our good friends at Squarespace you guys from Squarespace [TS]

01:15:22 ◼   ► where space is the all-in-one website building hosting / design tool you go to [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► Squarespace you sign up for an account and you can create your own website what [TS]

01:15:34 ◼   ► type of website something like a blog post the podcast Squarespace [TS]

01:15:38 ◼   ► handle the audio to another cost effective way yes absolutely you could [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► do a blog you can do a podcast at Squarespace but what if you have a [TS]

01:15:47 ◼   ► totally different idea in mind something that's more like an online store to sell [TS]

01:15:50 ◼   ► stuff well guess what Squarespace can do that [TS]

01:15:54 ◼   ► portfolio maybe you're a designer or photographer something like that you [TS]

01:15:57 ◼   ► want to create an online portfolio of your work space can do that just about [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► any kind of thing you could need to build a website for Squarespace has [TS]

01:16:08 ◼   ► those sort of components right there ready for you to drag and drop into your [TS]

01:16:14 ◼   ► own custom design they have templates to choose from to start with beautiful [TS]

01:16:18 ◼   ► templates and that they scale right from your phone tablet to 27 inch 5 k red [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► iMac and they have the brand new Squarespace 7 this is the latest version [TS]

01:16:32 ◼   ► of Squarespace totally redesigned everything is right there you don't have [TS]

01:16:39 ◼   ► to if you're logged into your account instead of a separate editing mode when [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► you want to change stuff you just do it right there [TS]

01:16:47 ◼   ► it is sort of the original vision for hypertext where that big complaint [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► against the the world wide web when it came out in 1993 1994 was that editing [TS]

01:16:58 ◼   ► was something you did in a text editor thrifty P and yeah you know it's him out [TS]

01:17:03 ◼   ► and browsing with something you didn the browser [TS]

01:17:06 ◼   ► why can't you read it right there in the browser well that's what Squarespace [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► seven days you just look at what you're looking at it was awake and you drive [TS]

01:17:13 ◼   ► what you want to drag you take out you wanna take out would you want to add [TS]

01:17:16 ◼   ► right there in place they've added integration with Google Apps they have a [TS]

01:17:21 ◼   ► new partnership with Getty Images so if you want to get stock photography stock [TS]

01:17:26 ◼   ► imagery you could do it right there through the Squarespace partnership with [TS]

01:17:31 ◼   ► Getty Images 15 of their templates are all brand new specifically for [TS]

01:17:37 ◼   ► Squarespace seven and all of them are super beautiful [TS]

01:17:41 ◼   ► the other thing you get with Squarespace definitely worth mentioning every time [TS]

01:17:45 ◼   ► they sponsor the show is award-winning 24 hours seven days a week [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► tech support be a live chat and email they have teams tech support teams all [TS]

01:17:56 ◼   ► around the globe which is how they keep going twenty four seven so the matter [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► what time you're working on it whether you're working late at night [TS]

01:18:03 ◼   ► middle of the night early in the morning Squarespace has tech support ready to [TS]

01:18:07 ◼   ► help answer any of your questions so where do you go to get started [TS]

01:18:13 ◼   ► go to Squarespace dot com slash the talk show and you can start a trial with no [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► credit card required and start building your website today [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► using offer code Jay G and you'll get 10% off your first purchase so the URL [TS]

01:18:31 ◼   ► is myspace.com / the talk show the offer code which you use later on [TS]

01:18:37 ◼   ► go sign up through that URL than a month later when you're free trials up uses [TS]

01:18:41 ◼   ► code Gigi and you'll get 10% off your first purchase and support the show so [TS]

01:18:48 ◼   ► my thanks to Squarespace so what else is going on I don't know anything about [TS]

01:18:54 ◼   ► this time years it's pretty quiet and talking about going out on my own I used [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► to have like a whole staff would come up with ideas at like stuff you could write [TS]

01:19:03 ◼   ► that you could put in a system and just sort of have a play out over the last [TS]

01:19:08 ◼   ► two weeks of the year when nothing was going on and doing this myself I should [TS]

01:19:12 ◼   ► probably put something there's nothing going on but it's difficult cuz there's [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► really you know there's nothing going on so you end up writing lots of hey let's [TS]

01:19:21 ◼   ► look back at 2014 and what did we learn and what are my favorite things and I [TS]

01:19:26 ◼   ► don't know it's a tough it's a tough time here because there isn't a lot of [TS]

01:19:30 ◼   ► tech stuff going on I've used in the past this year just been busy with [TS]

01:19:34 ◼   ► suspender crazy busy holiday thing with family and friends and stuff a lot of [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► times I use this period to write something that might take a long time [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► and therefore it you know they have a big thought peace on you know where I [TS]

01:19:50 ◼   ► what we know about the walk that Apple watching out two or three months later I [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► wish I had more time for him maybe this coming week [TS]

01:19:58 ◼   ► idea but something like that where it's not as nothing to do with what's new or [TS]

01:20:03 ◼   ► news but just take advantage of the fact that there isn't any news to really [TS]

01:20:08 ◼   ► focus on in and write it something like that right [TS]

01:20:11 ◼   ► yeah I [TS]

01:20:12 ◼   ► that's one of the things that I've been grappling with it and doing the site is [TS]

01:20:15 ◼   ► is how do you balance writing you know being a one-person operation right if [TS]

01:20:21 ◼   ► you're busy writing a deep think piece about something that's going to go on [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► for a thousand words you're not writing things to put on the site today and I [TS]

01:20:28 ◼   ► feel I feel like with a less established I like mine I definitely feel pressure [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► to keep the lights on every day and try to balance those things and you know you [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► you have a different pace you you can post some links and then you put out a [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► bigger piece every so often and I I like your pace but I don't feel like I am I [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► can do that right now I feel like I need to keep the keep the heart beat a little [TS]

01:20:50 ◼   ► stronger because I'm trying to establish myself and and pick up and pick up an [TS]

01:20:56 ◼   ► audience that I may not have you know have captured yet but then I end up in a [TS]

01:21:00 ◼   ► situation where it's like wow it's gonna take me three days to write a review of [TS]

01:21:03 ◼   ► the red iMac was an example where it took me like two or three days to write [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► that and one of my challenges was always should I keep reading this now or should [TS]

01:21:13 ◼   ► I stop and find something short to write and post to the site just to let people [TS]

01:21:17 ◼   ► know I'm still alive while I'm also writing this longer piece trying to find [TS]

01:21:21 ◼   ► a balances is is tricky as one of the again not being on a team anymore and [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► being just myself I i've learned the powerful lesson of how little one person [TS]

01:21:31 ◼   ► is capable of producing versus a staff then every once in a while though I [TS]

01:21:36 ◼   ► surprised myself and I'm like holy crap I got a lot done a lot published in the [TS]

01:21:41 ◼   ► last 24 hours like not just like stuff that I've been working on for a long [TS]

01:21:44 ◼   ► time it happened to finish just be like wow I got like eight links and a full [TS]

01:21:50 ◼   ► article I can I do this every day well I think I think part of it is is energy [TS]

01:21:55 ◼   ► and part of it is that that stuff doesn't always happen like that right i [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► mean there are days I I know exactly what you're talking about maybe I didn't [TS]

01:22:02 ◼   ► recognize me as much before as I do now but there are those days with my god [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► there's like five great links and there's like three articles I could [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► write about things that happened today and those are wonderful days and and [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► maybe a couple of those articles to later in the week can you just keep on [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► writing about it and then other times when it when it's just like wow what is [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► happening nothing is happening and and you know CES is gonna happen next week I [TS]

01:22:26 ◼   ► think it's always something interesting to read about their even if it's sort of [TS]

01:22:31 ◼   ► the anti CAS I'm very happy to not be going to CES this year but you know [TS]

01:22:37 ◼   ► things with the news cycle will will spend up again but you're right it is [TS]

01:22:41 ◼   ► kinda nice to have that ability to spend time with family or reflect a little bit [TS]

01:22:46 ◼   ► or work on a longer-term project and you know I've been thinking about that too [TS]

01:22:49 ◼   ► but with travel it becomes a lot harder to to find the time to do that stuff [TS]

01:22:55 ◼   ► when you're when you're traveling with family and all that [TS]

01:22:59 ◼   ► do you have the I know I don't know if you've ever and I happen to know that [TS]

01:23:04 ◼   ► six colors is running on movable type yes [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► post about that at some point just like gonna come out of the closet and yes I [TS]

01:23:13 ◼   ► get my it might be the last the last news major site to launch its paws I [TS]

01:23:19 ◼   ► heard from the people who were doing the current version of movable type cuz I'm [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► using movable-type for which i think people you're using yes yes I don't last [TS]

01:23:27 ◼   ► a mean joke would be of alaska this five was not so good I heard from the people [TS]

01:23:33 ◼   ► who are the current support license people for movable type in there like [TS]

01:23:36 ◼   ► you know that we want to talk maybe we can get your license if we can use you [TS]

01:23:40 ◼   ► as an example and one on one level that's interesting but then I also was [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► kinda thinking I'm not sure they they added anything that I would actually [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► want and I'm fortunate to have my friend Greg nice is like survived with pearl 41 [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► and movable type 42 and so on in a way I've got an off the shelf you know CMS [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► from five years ago or eight years ago and the guy who can customize it to do [TS]

01:24:03 ◼   ► whatever and so that's pretty good and I threw out all their templates I didn't [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► use any other templates one adult the site templates it's all original [TS]

01:24:09 ◼   ► templates but you know sometimes it's just go with what you know and all the [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► movable type is old and weird I also know it like I i i couldnt WordPress but [TS]

01:24:21 ◼   ► I actually don't know WordPress I would have to learn a lot about WordPress or [TS]

01:24:25 ◼   ► Squarespace or anything that I was doing in and I thought I've already got the [TS]

01:24:28 ◼   ► server here it's already raining movable type for some other projects [TS]

01:24:31 ◼   ► why not [TS]

01:24:32 ◼   ► just do that I I can do that without learning anything about the CMS and I [TS]

01:24:36 ◼   ► can just focus on the content and getting the templates live and when I [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► was launching a site in the week that seems like a good idea so you know it's [TS]

01:24:43 ◼   ► you do you have I am IMT pluggin that led to give you like posting interface [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► from the iPhone I don't think I do see that to me is the game-changer and I [TS]

01:24:56 ◼   ► don't know and I know that we're press has like a pretty good maybe even better [TS]

01:25:01 ◼   ► iPhone optimized interface and then I forget who else would I am to you I know [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► Brad choke dat who is a longtime six-part employee wrote the plug in a [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► region it goes back to my 2008 I mean it came out and maybe even 2007 it came out [TS]

01:25:20 ◼   ► very early it you know it doesn't give you all of movable type it only gives [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► you just pick a blog either picking you make a new entry or edit an existing [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► entry and then when you open an entry just you know here Tuesday fealty shot [TS]

01:25:37 ◼   ► so I had my little bit just to make it a little bit more specific to how I use [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► the fields but that's what I did with Greg wrote a plugin that does audio [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► processing because [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► podcast Movable Type is problematic because movable type doesn't know like [TS]

01:25:54 ◼   ► what the white counties and you're supposed to put that in the RSS feed the [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► length of the byte count of the file you're linking to and so he just read a [TS]

01:26:00 ◼   ► plugin for me that there does that and that means I can keep using it is a [TS]

01:26:05 ◼   ► little bit like you know when I D person saying I know that there have been five [TS]

01:26:09 ◼   ► versions of Adobe Photoshop that have come out but we're just gonna stay on [TS]

01:26:13 ◼   ► diversion 3 because it works for us and we were ok it's a little like that being [TS]

01:26:19 ◼   ► on this old CMS but it works fine and if the point that it doesn't work fine it's [TS]

01:26:23 ◼   ► got a perfectly reasonable database format and I could migrate it somewhere [TS]

01:26:26 ◼   ► else but you know what I said knowing somebody who can write a movable type [TS]

01:26:30 ◼   ► plug in [TS]

01:26:32 ◼   ► in in a few hours to solve a problem helps a lot I could do anything with six [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► colors though it's so simple in Kabul as much crazier it's a movable type but [TS]

01:26:41 ◼   ► it's got like multiple blogs and they're all related to each other so it's like [TS]

01:26:44 ◼   ► the incomparable is no longer one thing right right cuz its metal podcast so [TS]

01:26:50 ◼   ► we've got we've gotta podcasts blogs and episodes blog and they they [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► inter-related that's how you can generate multiple podcast feeds and a [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► master list in a master feed and all of that is actually a bunch of movable type [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► things that's a totally crazy thing but it works and and we built it because [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► there's just things that that damn Benjamin CMS didn't offer and they were [TS]

01:27:14 ◼   ► not things dan we should ever have built because his other shows would never use [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► them but i wanna index so that people can find out that we talked about [TS]

01:27:23 ◼   ► Raiders of the Lost Ark in like episode 8 or something and they can go to a page [TS]

01:27:27 ◼   ► and scroll down to Raiders of the Lost Ark and there's a link to the podcast [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► where we talked about it in the end campsite was never gonna do that and [TS]

01:27:35 ◼   ► that's not his fault it's just didn't make sense for him but I wanted this [TS]

01:27:38 ◼   ► features so we built this crazy thing and movable type and you know it's it's [TS]

01:27:42 ◼   ► it's crazy but it works pretty well and once I had that up and running it was [TS]

01:27:47 ◼   ► really easy to just add the six colors blog on on two movable type 2 because I [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► was already wrangling it and Greg are ready so we decided to do that too nice [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► a mobile type is you know it's template language is fairly simple but it's [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► pretty robust and and it's it's rendering seven pages which means you're [TS]

01:28:06 ◼   ► not gonna get fireballs I still well everybody renders static pages it's just [TS]

01:28:12 ◼   ► a question of whether they're rendering them immediately or whether they're [TS]

01:28:16 ◼   ► calling cashing [TS]

01:28:18 ◼   ► that's true that's when caching with with WordPress has gotten a lot better [TS]

01:28:21 ◼   ► which is which is good and I've used WordPress its I'm not comfortable with [TS]

01:28:25 ◼   ► it it's interesting to see [TS]

01:28:29 ◼   ► stuff like this is is is in some cases as a nerd litmus test a little bit right [TS]

01:28:33 ◼   ► it's like oh what blog platform to use and there's somebody movable type is not [TS]

01:28:37 ◼   ► cool it's old and weird but right tool for the job you know right tool for the [TS]

01:28:42 ◼   ► job and and and I'm a big believer in that that I shouldn't have to spend a [TS]

01:28:47 ◼   ► week hitting up to speed on a platform that's gonna let me do exactly what i [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► was gonna do on the thing that I already know and if I had to jump I would impact [TS]

01:28:55 ◼   ► when I'm thinking about doing like site registrations or something for the [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► website that that one option I have to do like a membership of voluntary [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► membership for six colors there's a move [TS]

01:29:07 ◼   ► there's a there's a wordpress plugin that does a good job with that i think [TS]

01:29:11 ◼   ► thats what Ben Thompson is using or if not he's customers I know told me and [TS]

01:29:19 ◼   ► you know if if if I want to I can set up a wordpress instance to and use that for [TS]

01:29:25 ◼   ► that and not for the rest of it and just have them interconnect and I can do that [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► too [TS]

01:29:30 ◼   ► it's not you know it's it's not necessarily bad [TS]

01:29:34 ◼   ► to to do stuff like that but it does make me feel that cool when I get an [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► email the other day from somebody was like I I see your this feature on your [TS]

01:29:41 ◼   ► blog and I would like to implement that I assume you use WordPress like idea how [TS]

01:29:45 ◼   ► did you do it [TS]

01:29:46 ◼   ► ok bad news not using WordPress yeah I've gotten over the years to the [TS]

01:29:52 ◼   ► combined post thing although we're definitely doing WordPress but you would [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► have to do it a different way [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► yeah and and again [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► yeah and and again [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► I don't know how you do it in WordPress but I know exactly how you doin movable [TS]

01:30:03 ◼   ► type so especially for just wanting to get it up soon [TS]

01:30:08 ◼   ► it made him a lot of sense to you to do that now i know i cant like Movable Type [TS]

01:30:12 ◼   ► it's funky and weird but an argument with somebody when they're talking about [TS]

01:30:16 ◼   ► what real real mark down haha I mean don't get me started to get you started [TS]

01:30:19 ◼   ► but I had a moment where I said you know I still consider markdown IPL the [TS]

01:30:24 ◼   ► definitive merger down and they vary I think they're being very smart they said [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► yeah but you don't actually you know how much of what you do actually gets [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► processed by Martin PL and I said all of it because either I run it in a script [TS]

01:30:38 ◼   ► in BBEdit output HTML a pace that in somewhere or I'm using movable-type [TS]

01:30:42 ◼   ► which is using the market and IPL on the fly to convert those to HTML so I'm you [TS]

01:30:47 ◼   ► know it has the advantage to even my the markdown dingus a daring fireball which [TS]

01:30:55 ◼   ► is extremely popular then I mean I thousands of the number of people who [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► use that webpage everyday is greater than I think the daily readership of [TS]

01:31:06 ◼   ► daring fireball when I went full time it's it's that popular it's just a [TS]

01:31:11 ◼   ► little PHP forum where you can enter some marked down hit a button and it [TS]

01:31:14 ◼   ► gives you the output beneath which you can then copy and paste elsewhere which [TS]

01:31:20 ◼   ► I originally wrote just for people I didn't think people would actually use [TS]

01:31:22 ◼   ► it as a tool to or I thought it was just like if you're learning this you for [TS]

01:31:27 ◼   ► reading about this you want to learn to type something here and then you can see [TS]

01:31:31 ◼   ► the output here and there's no better way to learn then you know you can see [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► that you put asterisks around the word and then in the output it puts em tags [TS]

01:31:40 ◼   ► around the word but people use it on a daily basis just like I want to convert [TS]

01:31:45 ◼   ► I I need to get some I need to have this in HTML quickly dashed out here hit the [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► button and copy and paste in have to really that's great but it's a little [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► formal written in PHP [TS]

01:31:54 ◼   ► but behind the scenes it still costs out to the perot voters and its sound when I [TS]

01:32:01 ◼   ► did that I thought well that's never gonna scale like if this page gets [TS]

01:32:05 ◼   ► popular it's got to be slow but it's not it's caused the whole thing is so stupid [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► simple that even if it's a PHP script [TS]

01:32:12 ◼   ► that calls out to the UNIX shell scripting a text file and then put them [TS]

01:32:16 ◼   ► put back in it all takes place in a fraction of a second you're waiting [TS]

01:32:20 ◼   ► longer for the network then you are for my server to do that no matter how far [TS]

01:32:27 ◼   ► we've come [TS]

01:32:27 ◼   ► yeah I remember when running a prescrip was actually like you know stop the [TS]

01:32:32 ◼   ► presses right it was like to rate this and see just Wright like a perl script [TS]

01:32:38 ◼   ► and it's like wow it'll take a second or two for Pearl to fire up but you know I [TS]

01:32:43 ◼   ► don't so much easier to do it I will take a break and is sponsored by a [TS]

01:32:49 ◼   ► circle back half an hour I have the research department the award-winning [TS]

01:32:55 ◼   ► research department here at the talk show has found the white paper that I [TS]

01:32:59 ◼   ► was talking about its by Wilfredo Sanchez I cannot believe I forgot [TS]

01:33:03 ◼   ► friends name because I've even had drinks with him at the BBC great guy [TS]

01:33:10 ◼   ► it's a used next two thousand presentations from the year 2000 the [TS]

01:33:17 ◼   ► challenges of integrating the UNIX and Mac OS environments and I will put it in [TS]

01:33:22 ◼   ► the show not guaranteed it is I swear it sounds very dry but it is a terrific [TS]

01:33:28 ◼   ► read if you have any technical interest in this sort of thing like well how do [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► you square the circle of having a classic Mac OS with colon separators and [TS]

01:33:38 ◼   ► Unix with / separators and other issues to like the fact that the UNIX [TS]

01:33:42 ◼   ► filesystem did not file a DS and the Mac had aliases Indonesia symlinks and Unix [TS]

01:33:48 ◼   ► didn't have a lease is indeed have some links and etcetera etcetera how did they [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► make it all work it is a wonderfully well you know it's typical just for [TS]

01:33:57 ◼   ► someone who would be a great engineering Apple it is it's written in [TS]

01:34:00 ◼   ► in very very clear language so I will put in the Schonert don't forget that's [TS]

01:34:06 ◼   ► right and in my ipod my apologies to anybody out there who's listening who [TS]

01:34:11 ◼   ► remembered that Freddy Sanchez wrote that paper and for the last 35 minutes [TS]

01:34:16 ◼   ► has been writing email while they listened to us continue when you get the [TS]

01:34:21 ◼   ► Twitter feed back that's like oh you can't answer is this just keep listening [TS]

01:34:25 ◼   ► we gotta so I apologies that I know where you are in the shower right now [TS]

01:34:32 ◼   ► your patience will be rewarded just keep on listening you had another talk about [TS]

01:34:39 ◼   ► the interview so anything that is something that was going on over over [TS]

01:34:46 ◼   ► Christmas right this whole thing where Sony Entertainment got hacked by [TS]

01:34:54 ◼   ► somebody many people including EUS government believe either by the North [TS]

01:34:59 ◼   ► Korean government or by a group sponsored by the North Korean government [TS]

01:35:02 ◼   ► perhaps in protest of this movie Seth Rogen James Franco or his or her sister [TS]

01:35:11 ◼   ► President Obama Colin James flaca [TS]

01:35:15 ◼   ► conflating in with the Ravens quarterback Joe is like a you know a [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► movie that is about comedy about them [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► assassinating North Korean leader Kim jong-il right there they're asked by the [TS]

01:35:34 ◼   ► CIA to to assassinate him and then they got hacked and all this embarrassing [TS]

01:35:42 ◼   ► stuff came out and they got threatened there were threats whether they were [TS]

01:35:48 ◼   ► real or imagined than any of the other was first come out on Christmas day I [TS]

01:35:51 ◼   ► guess in any there are threats that any theater that showed it was going to [TS]

01:35:54 ◼   ► perhaps suffer some kind of terrorist attack they said there would be another [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► 911 add another 90 theaters near you [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► yeah right which doesn't seem like yeah you gonna fly how many airplanes into [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► the movie theaters but anyway [TS]

01:36:10 ◼   ► the editors decided I think I I think it was a mistake but I think they made a [TS]

01:36:17 ◼   ► simple economic decision which was well christmas is a huge time for movies and [TS]

01:36:22 ◼   ► period this movie in particular wasn't going to be a big hit anyway just screw [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► this movie and keep the theaters open and then you know next thing you know [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► Sony wanted to release it online and they did but iTunes was not among the [TS]

01:36:35 ◼   ► streaming outfits that had it on as re-record re-recording on the 29 29th it [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► hit iTunes yesterday the 28th I think that summarizes the situation yeah and [TS]

01:36:53 ◼   ► there was there was one weird story that I that suggested that Sony had called [TS]

01:36:58 ◼   ► the white house asking for help in getting out ball to put it on iTunes [TS]

01:37:04 ◼   ► which I I have not seen any corroboration of that but that was the [TS]

01:37:08 ◼   ► one that struck me is like that's weird that's a weird yet that was the new york [TS]

01:37:12 ◼   ► times and it was an off it was just like in the middle of the article and it was [TS]

01:37:16 ◼   ► just sort of off hand I mean I don't know if that's your call the switchboard [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► yes for any Q's number or is that like President Obama can you do a solid and [TS]

01:37:23 ◼   ► call Tim Cook I there's a spectrum of what might have happened there and it's [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► unclear from there sort of the implication that they wanted to be an [TS]

01:37:30 ◼   ► iTunes exclusive and and but Apple wasn't interested and then you know what [TS]

01:37:37 ◼   ► ended up happening is that it went up on Christmas Eve on Google Play and on [TS]

01:37:44 ◼   ► YouTube on YouTube for purchase or rental and Xbox through text box life [TS]

01:37:51 ◼   ► correct but not iTunes until until the 28th I guess you know I wrote today I [TS]

01:38:01 ◼   ► just before he started the show I gave it my headline of the Week award finally [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► G [TS]

01:38:08 ◼   ► PGR is headline was a poor and I want to get this wrong because it's so classic [TS]

01:38:14 ◼   ► BGR as headliners Apple finally decides to stand up to Sony hackers releases the [TS]

01:38:22 ◼   ► interview on iTunes man so I you know whether it's true and I i nobody I've [TS]

01:38:29 ◼   ► got nobody on the record but you know speaking to some people at Apple nobody [TS]

01:38:33 ◼   ► directly involved in iTunes but people who know people who are involved in [TS]

01:38:36 ◼   ► iTunes that the story I've heard and it makes sense for example if your [TS]

01:38:40 ◼   ► developer this is public knowledge iTunes Connect closes around like the [TS]

01:38:44 ◼   ► 22nd or 23rd and it does and even say you go to the iTunes Connect site they [TS]

01:38:48 ◼   ► say iTunes Connect is closed until December 28 they close couple days [TS]

01:38:53 ◼   ► before Christmas and they don't open until a couple of days afterwards and [TS]

01:38:58 ◼   ► that's it [TS]

01:38:59 ◼   ► whatever you want if you're a developer if you want to get a bugfix and you've [TS]

01:39:03 ◼   ► got to get it in before they close and otherwise your gonna wait about a week [TS]

01:39:06 ◼   ► because they want to give people time off from my understanding I think that [TS]

01:39:11 ◼   ► what happened was apple juice and and the New York Times article kinda hinted [TS]

01:39:14 ◼   ► it not that Apple was interested but they weren't interested in doing it on [TS]

01:39:18 ◼   ► Sony's timetable that it was this was like the blackout period for iTunes and [TS]

01:39:25 ◼   ► it's not easy the stuff is non-trivial like to have all these movies streaming [TS]

01:39:30 ◼   ► around the world it takes a while for them to propagate around to see the end [TS]

01:39:35 ◼   ► the content delivery networks that Apple uses and again in theory if they wanted [TS]

01:39:42 ◼   ► to get it up on Christmas I'm sure they could've but I think they would have had [TS]

01:39:44 ◼   ► to call people back from vacation and you know make all sorts of exceptions [TS]

01:39:49 ◼   ► and I just think Apple's decision was this is not our problem and yeah we have [TS]

01:39:54 ◼   ► the movie if we get the movie three days from now so what ya I think we might [TS]

01:39:57 ◼   ► need a bigger thing I don't know why I look at the look at how the story had [TS]

01:40:02 ◼   ► gone and kind of thing that somebody at Apple probably should have said let's be [TS]

01:40:08 ◼   ► prepared to slide this thing up on Christmas Day [TS]

01:40:12 ◼   ► just because that may be how this goes any it was clear a while ago people were [TS]

01:40:16 ◼   ► talking about maybe they were just make it available video on demand and I know [TS]

01:40:21 ◼   ► that thats yeah that's probably telling an employee or to an Apple that they [TS]

01:40:26 ◼   ► need to they need to come to work or be on call to come to work over the holiday [TS]

01:40:29 ◼   ► and that sucks but at the same time you know although that headline is [TS]

01:40:34 ◼   ► ridiculous I do feel like there was a chance here for Apple to just kind of [TS]

01:40:39 ◼   ► the part of the story and instead the story was Apple doesn't have it that's [TS]

01:40:44 ◼   ► weird and I don't know I mean that they're in the business of working with [TS]

01:40:47 ◼   ► the studios to get the stuff I would you want to be seen as being on the [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► forefront of this and being flexible enough to get up and I kinda feel like [TS]

01:40:54 ◼   ► what was revealed is that Apple systems are a little bit rickety and and they [TS]

01:40:59 ◼   ► were they were running a skeleton crew and so they just couldn't get it up and [TS]

01:41:02 ◼   ► in time for the timing of it which is kind of weird although if you've used [TS]

01:41:06 ◼   ► iTunes Connect it's not unreasonable to think that that's a weird you know back [TS]

01:41:10 ◼   ► in system that regular people never have to see but it's not a big deal but it is [TS]

01:41:16 ◼   ► a little surprising that it should now be at the forefront of the stuff like [TS]

01:41:19 ◼   ► sure we can put that up the problem and yeah I do I do kind of feel that aside [TS]

01:41:23 ◼   ► and again who knows what the root actual capabilities and I don't know for sure [TS]

01:41:27 ◼   ► but I do think that it might be true that Apple's backend system for this [TS]

01:41:30 ◼   ► stuff is less nimble than you know in no surprise that Google may be a lot more [TS]

01:41:36 ◼   ► nimble in this regard yeah yeah that they can do something quicker they can [TS]

01:41:40 ◼   ► pull something put put it up quicker and have it propagation and stream around [TS]

01:41:46 ◼   ► the world quicker than Apple can wear the Apple AAPL still the company that [TS]

01:41:49 ◼   ► when they make changes to the store has tix tore down an hour to exactly exactly [TS]

01:41:55 ◼   ► I i think that's that's part of the story and they've gotten better but also [TS]

01:41:58 ◼   ► used to be that they would be like TV shows that would come out and it was [TS]

01:42:01 ◼   ► like supposed to be released on midnight after the after the show aired or [TS]

01:42:05 ◼   ► something like that and then on iTunes it would always be like sometime the [TS]

01:42:09 ◼   ► next day or maybe the day after and i never knew whether that meant that some [TS]

01:42:13 ◼   ► of the TV studio just didn't get the file to them in time or whether it was [TS]

01:42:16 ◼   ► like literally there's a lag in iTunes Connect for content and you know the [TS]

01:42:22 ◼   ► systems are shallower the approval of slow and that [TS]

01:42:24 ◼   ► gets gets delayed and they seem to be better at that now too but it's possible [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► I know it's also possible that Google and Microsoft and whoever else posted [TS]

01:42:33 ◼   ► this thing had no problem telling their staff to work on Christmas and maybe [TS]

01:42:39 ◼   ► they maybe they had that plan and Apple has this kind of corporate culture of [TS]

01:42:43 ◼   ► dismissing everybody for that period of time and you know maybe that's played [TS]

01:42:48 ◼   ► into this 2010 and not really anybody I mean it can't really be everybody [TS]

01:42:53 ◼   ► because you know on Christmas morning when everybody's launching new iPod iPad [TS]

01:42:59 ◼   ► somebody somebody's gotta be there there are always people on call so that that's [TS]

01:43:02 ◼   ► that's the part that just don't know maybe they just didn't think it was that [TS]

01:43:05 ◼   ► big a deal and that it was that they didn't need to be there it's just it's [TS]

01:43:09 ◼   ► funny in the end when the president is talking about it in his news conference [TS]

01:43:12 ◼   ► it's probably a big enough deal to pay attention to it I think if your Apple [TS]

01:43:15 ◼   ► just cannot be even if you're not going to be the only exclusive provider of it [TS]

01:43:19 ◼   ► to not be the one major player who's not providing a note saying they were afraid [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► or anything that is a lot of stupidity and in those statements but I'm just [TS]

01:43:27 ◼   ► saying for PR purposes alone don't you want to be not seen as being a step [TS]

01:43:31 ◼   ► behind Microsoft and Google Play yeah I totally agree with that and and though [TS]

01:43:38 ◼   ► the movie is a silly stupid comedy and not like a serious political statement [TS]

01:43:44 ◼   ► which you know what I think if it had been if it had been some kind of [TS]

01:43:48 ◼   ► documentary on North Korea that had you know sparked the hack and public need to [TS]

01:43:57 ◼   ► see this movie right that I bet I would be surprised about what had made the [TS]

01:44:01 ◼   ► exception but I feel like it almost doesn't matter like and I actually did [TS]

01:44:06 ◼   ► rent a movie remanent now it was really that I did that their best but at their [TS]

01:44:14 ◼   ► worst seems like an odd not the best showing for them now there are very few [TS]

01:44:19 ◼   ► movies that even if even though I'm like halfway through in like wow I regret [TS]

01:44:23 ◼   ► running [TS]

01:44:23 ◼   ► but I'll stick it through to the end that this one I did not make it to my [TS]

01:44:28 ◼   ► wife I just latisha let's just go bad otherwise I'm gonna fall asleep in front [TS]

01:44:34 ◼   ► of this thing it was not funny but I still feel like you know we can't have [TS]

01:44:41 ◼   ► our movies being held to the whims of you know anonymous not job hackers ya [TS]

01:44:46 ◼   ► gotta stick to your guns and I kind of feel like so as stupid as the movie [TS]

01:44:52 ◼   ► itself actually is I kind of feel like it really was an exceptional situation [TS]

01:44:56 ◼   ► that warranted probably exceptional and ill an exception from Apple from what [TS]

01:45:03 ◼   ► they would typically do I know it wasn't just like Sony it called them up and we [TS]

01:45:09 ◼   ► had this movie from the summer and we've got it scheduled to come up with you [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► guys on January 2nd but you know it's like we do it like a week early may be [TS]

01:45:19 ◼   ► given up on Christmas and apples iknow you guys you know before you know your [TS]

01:45:24 ◼   ► chance to do that was last week it's coming up on January 2nd this was not [TS]

01:45:28 ◼   ► just like a regular situation like you said the present United States is [TS]

01:45:32 ◼   ► talking about right right I mean I'm glad the little back in theaters and it [TS]

01:45:36 ◼   ► sounds like it was the theater chains were like we're afraid we don't scare [TS]

01:45:39 ◼   ► people away from the other movies that were just gonna punted I'm glad that [TS]

01:45:42 ◼   ► that some theaters finally showed it and i'm glad that it was on VOD and the [TS]

01:45:47 ◼   ► people can watch it and yeah it's a shame in a way that this isn't over a [TS]

01:45:51 ◼   ► more serious thoughtful piece of work instead of a kind of stoner Road comedy [TS]

01:45:57 ◼   ► but you know I like Franco and Rogan I mean I like from all the way back and [TS]

01:46:02 ◼   ► freaks and geeks days actually [TS]

01:46:04 ◼   ► and the fact that Seth Rogen is a guy who headlines movies is totally crazy [TS]

01:46:10 ◼   ► for me because I mean look at that guy he's not a movie starring Eddie is a [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► movie star I love that and he's a writer who has become you know he was primarily [TS]

01:46:18 ◼   ► a writer who has become more of an active I i have lots of positive [TS]

01:46:21 ◼   ► thoughts about those guys even if the movie is kinda sucky I'm glad that I got [TS]

01:46:26 ◼   ► out there and yeah [TS]

01:46:27 ◼   ► yeah you would think you would think somebody that would be like hey guys I [TS]

01:46:32 ◼   ► think we need to do this and and i think perhaps they did happen eventually after [TS]

01:46:36 ◼   ► the fact we're maybe on Christmas Day somebody was like why why are we not out [TS]

01:46:40 ◼   ► there with this and so now we see it you know it went on iTunes faster than I [TS]

01:46:46 ◼   ► thought once it didn't go on i tunes on the day of release I thought that's [TS]

01:46:49 ◼   ► gonna lag behind their gonna come up and turn the lights back on and then they're [TS]

01:46:53 ◼   ► gonna put it out there it got a bit faster than I thought after after they [TS]

01:46:57 ◼   ► passed by the initial drop date now it was exactly did I would say it was [TS]

01:47:02 ◼   ► exactly what I expected I read between the lines in my guess was all they said [TS]

01:47:07 ◼   ► was we're not going to do this but not going to get this up by Christmas will [TS]

01:47:11 ◼   ► get it in you know somebody to come back in on Friday or Monday and push the [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► button will make an appt yeah stupid movie cannot have a really good [TS]

01:47:22 ◼   ► an an international incident propelled by a a stoner Road comedy amazing [TS]

01:47:30 ◼   ► amazing [TS]

01:47:32 ◼   ► me take a break and thinking third and final sponsor the show and a trifecta of [TS]

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01:49:20 ◼   ► how often do regular people mess around with DNS me almost never I kind of [TS]

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01:50:56 ◼   ► account now I have 16 demeans at her and we have a problem but I do and count [TS]

01:51:02 ◼   ► yeah well I menswear put all that when I when I got six colors that's where I put [TS]

01:51:06 ◼   ► it is yes I was about to say I'm gonna repeat myself but it couldn't it must [TS]

01:51:10 ◼   ► have been something I told you in person because you haven't been on the show I [TS]

01:51:13 ◼   ► think six colors is such a great name when you came out with their you didn't [TS]

01:51:19 ◼   ► ask me you didn't say hey joie thinkin a mutant my feelings are a little [TS]

01:51:24 ◼   ► yeah well that was I mean I expected a lot more hand-wringing and and [TS]

01:51:28 ◼   ► difficulty honestly I i i did some brainstorming when I decided I was going [TS]

01:51:34 ◼   ► to do this site and I thought I don't want to be I something or Mac something [TS]

01:51:39 ◼   ► I'd already spent years dealing with a brand name with Mac in it that was [TS]

01:51:43 ◼   ► talking about iOS and I also one of the freedom to talk about other tech stuff [TS]

01:51:46 ◼   ► that's not Apple related at all but I also didn't want to be just completely [TS]

01:51:50 ◼   ► divorced I wanted I wanted to mean something to me completely divorced from [TS]

01:51:52 ◼   ► Apple is likely if I can tip my cap at Apple somehow and yet have not be [TS]

01:51:56 ◼   ► necessary to understanding just haven't been easy to scan cite cite name that [TS]

01:52:02 ◼   ► that was what I was looking for and I also wanted to be something that was [TS]

01:52:05 ◼   ► kind of normal words and sellable and a dot com those are Scott sort of all my [TS]

01:52:09 ◼   ► rules can I did TV dotnet which was te ve day and there's nothing worse than [TS]

01:52:13 ◼   ► having to spell it out and then and then point out it's not a dot com dot net and [TS]

01:52:17 ◼   ► you know i just i wanted to be simple and then that that struck me that [TS]

01:52:21 ◼   ► classic you know it comes from their D interview that Steve Jobs did with [TS]

01:52:27 ◼   ► Walton Kara about when he came back to Apple [TS]

01:52:30 ◼   ► wrapping back around the beginning of the show in in 96 97 [TS]

01:52:34 ◼   ► and he was amazed at how many good people were still there when he thought [TS]

01:52:38 ◼   ► the company should be just empty because it was in such dire straits and and the [TS]

01:52:42 ◼   ► phrase that struck him at the time was somebody told him permit multiple people [TS]

01:52:47 ◼   ► told him that we know we believe six colors here or I believe six colors that [TS]

01:52:51 ◼   ► the classic Apple rainbow logo which was the logo the time it's like it's in my [TS]

01:52:55 ◼   ► blood this is Apple is part of who I am and that struck steve is like a leading [TS]

01:53:00 ◼   ► six colors that make sense you love Apple like I love Apple let's make some [TS]

01:53:03 ◼   ► great stuff and I i felt like that was that was like I'm not going always [TS]

01:53:07 ◼   ► praised everything Apple does Amanda criticized Apple I'm gonna try to be [TS]

01:53:09 ◼   ► fair when I read about Apple and I'm gonna read about things that are now but [TS]

01:53:12 ◼   ► Apple has defined my career and tech journalism there's no doubt about it and [TS]

01:53:17 ◼   ► it would be crazy for me not to find a way to to reference that and so I [TS]

01:53:22 ◼   ► thought you know bleed 66 colors believe six colors what you know let me look [TS]

01:53:26 ◼   ► that up and I found out that there were no website called that the dot-com [TS]

01:53:31 ◼   ► domain for it was available it was owned by somebody but it was just cite [TS]

01:53:35 ◼   ► literally saying make me an offer and I thought well like I know I give it a few [TS]

01:53:39 ◼   ► days where I just thought maybe maybe not doing want to do this what I want to [TS]

01:53:44 ◼   ► do but I I never went to a backup name as I thought well this is greater than [TS]

01:53:48 ◼   ► the same accuracy I dot com its regular English words and so yes then I ended up [TS]

01:53:55 ◼   ► making making those people on offer and transferring it to her and about six [TS]

01:53:58 ◼   ► colors with a you for everybody in Commonwealth countries it redirects to [TS]

01:54:03 ◼   ► the one without the year it does it read director doesn't mean it redirects it [TS]

01:54:07 ◼   ► and what I wanna do at some point is read a script or something that mirror [TS]

01:54:11 ◼   ► set with all of the words swapped out for their equivalents but I haven't [TS]

01:54:15 ◼   ► gotten to that point yet [TS]

01:54:17 ◼   ► maybe there'll be a good addition to smarty pants English if I like a monocle [TS]

01:54:23 ◼   ► and a top hat on it but yeah so it was I'm glad you liked it I i've got [TS]

01:54:28 ◼   ► incredibly positive feedback from it which is which is great cuz you never [TS]

01:54:31 ◼   ► expect positive feedback from anything on the internet you expect people to [TS]

01:54:33 ◼   ► grouse about it but you know i've been I i'm happy to have the people say nice [TS]

01:54:39 ◼   ► things about it and I'm happy about it I was like I said I expected this to be a [TS]

01:54:44 ◼   ► real trial and for me to get something that was a compromise could you hear [TS]

01:54:47 ◼   ► those stories and Marco tells a story about overcast now he had all these [TS]

01:54:50 ◼   ► different ideas and you know things he couldn't get things in past about a [TS]

01:54:54 ◼   ► trademark search or anything like that and you know for this I was really just [TS]

01:54:58 ◼   ► looking for ideally a.com domain I would have taken some others probably if I [TS]

01:55:04 ◼   ► could come up with something clever but this for me was a good fit it's like if [TS]

01:55:08 ◼   ► you get what its referencing then great and if you don't it doesn't matter it's [TS]

01:55:12 ◼   ► just it's just a brand new Nigerian fireball is it's a good name you know [TS]

01:55:17 ◼   ► it's good it's but it's funny though cuz it's not enough to have a good name now [TS]

01:55:21 ◼   ► because well I wonder about that today I know Jason freed Basecamp 37620 is 137 I [TS]

01:55:32 ◼   ► will for the rest of my life but he he's written about how domain names don't [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► mean as much anymore and they have Basecamp dot com now but I think at [TS]

01:55:44 ◼   ► least 10 years HQ everybody who use Basecamp knows his thing was man people [TS]

01:55:51 ◼   ► just google based in NY 10018 have an account they just start typing be in [TS]

01:55:57 ◼   ► Toronto in on the address field and it fills in and when they're looking for it [TS]

01:56:03 ◼   ► they don't go to the website they go to google and type base camp and pay see if [TS]

01:56:07 ◼   ► we could be based campaign HQ access G and they would get to us [TS]

01:56:12 ◼   ► so I do think it's a little bit less important agree I like it better to have [TS]

01:56:17 ◼   ► a good name that just sounds like a good name six colors it sounds good rather [TS]

01:56:21 ◼   ► than worry about the domain but I still think that there's an art to getting a [TS]

01:56:24 ◼   ► name where it looks like a good you are you know and so every once in a while as [TS]

01:56:30 ◼   ► I can simple but like a lot of times when you have like an ass in the middle [TS]

01:56:34 ◼   ► it it if its plural Lake sixes colors dot com it's like you know it doesn't [TS]

01:56:42 ◼   ► look at it you lose the two words you know you want if you gonna combined two [TS]

01:56:47 ◼   ► words the daring fireballer six colors you want it to be completely unambiguous [TS]

01:56:52 ◼   ► even without CamelCase because that's how most people and every once in awhile [TS]

01:56:56 ◼   ► you come up with a domain name it's like two words put together they sound great [TS]

01:57:00 ◼   ► the meaning is great but then you look at the mall or kiss together and it's [TS]

01:57:04 ◼   ► like you can read it I mean we had a lot of politics involving picking a name for [TS]

01:57:08 ◼   ► the site that we launched it at IDG and we chose tech high and there are a lot [TS]

01:57:12 ◼   ► of things I love I love the logo I love the colors I like the name but in a [TS]

01:57:16 ◼   ► browser it looks terrible because it's the two ages in the middle [TS]

01:57:19 ◼   ► that's a that's exactly the sort of thing i'm talking now but again it did [TS]

01:57:24 ◼   ► you know but that's two ages in a row it's it's exactly right whereas in if it [TS]

01:57:30 ◼   ► wasn't for the URL you would never it never occurred because the 82nd age [TS]

01:57:34 ◼   ► would always be uppercase the interview CamelCase or it would be two words with [TS]

01:57:39 ◼   ► a space between them but either way it would be a lowercase agent a [TS]

01:57:42 ◼   ► capitulation it wouldn't be a problem but I did get and I've never even used [TS]

01:57:45 ◼   ► this it redirects but I did get 6 colo dot RSS cuz I don't know why not that's [TS]

01:57:53 ◼   ► like Serbia Serbian demand register has some of my money now but I don't know [TS]

01:57:58 ◼   ► why I bought a lot of domains when I was speculating about the about the name and [TS]

01:58:01 ◼   ► that's why I have 16 demeans and offers I've got a bleed six colors and bleed [TS]

01:58:05 ◼   ► six and numerals six of something but not of six colors and and a few other [TS]

01:58:10 ◼   ► names that were in there snow world which is where I posted my like a sort [TS]

01:58:14 ◼   ► of resignation announcement thing that was just a placeholder until I get lunch [TS]

01:58:18 ◼   ► six colors but I it's a name right its name was real words you don't have to [TS]

01:58:24 ◼   ► explain it during fireball is like that [TS]

01:58:25 ◼   ► you might ask what does that mean but the words are recognizable it's an [TS]

01:58:30 ◼   ► understandable concept I think I think in the art of naming that's what you [TS]

01:58:34 ◼   ► want is you want something that is gonna catch a little bit and be like oh yeah [TS]

01:58:36 ◼   ► yeah even if the domain doesn't matter although quite frankly during a [TS]

01:58:40 ◼   ► podcaster your own a TV interview and somebody says oh where can people read [TS]

01:58:44 ◼   ► about you it helps especially at the beginning to say six colors dot com [TS]

01:58:48 ◼   ► because you know if you say well he's a weird URL you have to go to it's less [TS]

01:58:53 ◼   ► likely anybody's gonna remember it but they might remember the name did you get [TS]

01:58:56 ◼   ► the digits six colors and I i would like to get that at some point but it was [TS]

01:59:02 ◼   ► quite frankly it was too expensive [TS]

01:59:03 ◼   ► after about the others I was like wow that's really pricey for just a redirect [TS]

01:59:07 ◼   ► and to your point about Google I feel like after some amount of time of me [TS]

01:59:13 ◼   ► doing this I can decide whether I want to go ahead and buy that and my feeling [TS]

01:59:18 ◼   ► is at some point those other alternatives are a lot less valuable [TS]

01:59:22 ◼   ► because there's already a thing that is six colors dot com and so numeral six [TS]

01:59:26 ◼   ► colors dot com is not a you know they're gonna think well it's it's valuable they [TS]

01:59:30 ◼   ► can sell it to me but nobody else is gonna want it so I hope to get them [TS]

01:59:34 ◼   ► eventually but I'm not gonna pay an arm and a leg to get them just because they [TS]

01:59:38 ◼   ► will redirect I've told this before my registered during fire by registered at [TS]

01:59:42 ◼   ► net and dot com at the same time and I i went with dot net as the canonical one [TS]

01:59:47 ◼   ► because I i've since grown out of it I guess if I had it to do all over again [TS]

01:59:52 ◼   ► I'd probably use the dot-com but at the time I had a weird aversion to dot com I [TS]

01:59:57 ◼   ► just thought I don't know if it's an exploit I cannot express it just felt [TS]

02:00:02 ◼   ► like that comment you're like a big company was a time when Doug net was [TS]

02:00:06 ◼   ► kinda cool it was likely cool like inside hurry you know where the word the [TS]

02:00:11 ◼   ► techie people of the internet and we we have dot net [TS]

02:00:14 ◼   ► ITV not net and org I just didn't ever get that calm I don't know it just [TS]

02:00:18 ◼   ► seemed to me like a person with a site should not have a duck and I don't even [TS]

02:00:22 ◼   ► know I've never even asked him I always thought maybe that's why can't he uses [TS]

02:00:25 ◼   ► cocky door but I read those two and this is back at a time when they're really [TS]

02:00:31 ◼   ► only three big ones [TS]