The Talk Show

105: ‘George Lucas Called’, With Guest Jason Snell


00:00:00   hello from beautiful southern california hello from very cold dark Philadelphia I [TS]

00:00:09   expect nothing less from Philly know your songs on Capp yeah well so I was in [TS]

00:00:13   as Arizona so we will I came through LA we go out to my moms place in Arizona [TS]

00:00:18   and come back through because it's such a long drive you can't really drive [TS]

00:00:20   direct from San Francisco to Phoenix cause the mountains are in the way so [TS]

00:00:24   about half way to my in Los so we spent a day here coming down and couple days [TS]

00:00:29   going back so it's a twofer all the grandparents are visible and it's pretty [TS]

00:00:33   good trip while driving though I'll come back to that something you wrote about [TS]

00:00:37   recent al-anon wanna touch with the road trip but big picture last time you were [TS]

00:00:43   on the show how ya you were here till the editorial director for Macworld from [TS]

00:00:50   48 hours yeah yeah it was the day it was the night before the Apple event it was [TS]

00:00:55   like September 8 I think it was it was it was it the seventh I might have [TS]

00:01:00   recorded the seventh and published it [TS]

00:01:02   yeah i think thats I think that's right I remember something to do with good [TS]

00:01:04   sound like [TS]

00:01:06   gonna go up before the Apple event because nobody's going to listen to it [TS]

00:01:09   after where we were right on the cusp of the Apple event and then the Macworld [TS]

00:01:14   layoffs and everything happened the next day [TS]

00:01:16   yeah that was that was pretty funny cuz I was like I i talked to John about [TS]

00:01:23   anything I can't so what big new things are going to happen this week I'm [TS]

00:01:32   frightened well there's gonna be a new year because the earth goes around the [TS]

00:01:35   Sun and nothing we can do can stop that so it's gonna be 2015 so there's [TS]

00:01:41   something and beyond that lets hope nothing I could use a little less fewer [TS]

00:01:48   interesting events postdoc shell [TS]

00:01:50   it fascinates me though it really does because you know in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:01:57   things September is not that long ago it's you know three months [TS]

00:02:03   yet somehow your new role doing your thing at six colors and you know it all [TS]

00:02:13   seemed settled already let you know [TS]

00:02:15   settled is not quite right but it feels normal to me now that you're writing at [TS]

00:02:19   six colors and Mac world as we know it doesn't exist [TS]

00:02:24   appreciate that it's i mean one of the big things I've said this on a bike Sui [TS]

00:02:30   I wish I wasn't planning on leaving I wasn't entirely sure I mean and I said [TS]

00:02:35   on August 2010 said you directly mean you were obviously a huge inspiration [TS]

00:02:38   and Jim Dalrymple and Federico teaching and other people I know who have gone [TS]

00:02:42   out on their own John bolts and done their own websites and you know I'm some [TS]

00:02:46   podcasts and some freelance and all of that and i dont thinking about that for [TS]

00:02:49   a while and in fact a year ago I started basically putting together a home office [TS]

00:02:56   in my garage caught my eye I we had no work space in the house it's it's a [TS]

00:03:00   pretty small house and in the garage was we bought a mini van a few years ago [TS]

00:03:05   when he couldn't camper van in the garage it's too big and so the garage [TS]

00:03:08   became when we were doing our kitchen it was a place where all the junk in the [TS]

00:03:12   house when while we were redoing it and then came back in like what we do in the [TS]

00:03:15   garage I was increasingly unhappy with my job and I kept thinking you know the [TS]

00:03:19   garage needs to be home office and I started building it and the entire [TS]

00:03:22   intent was not to have really nice work at home days the intent was that that [TS]

00:03:26   would be my office eventually cause I would leave macworld and I wouldn't want [TS]

00:03:29   to at least try to do my own thing rather than go you know we'd always [TS]

00:03:34   joked one of the past president of Macworld and I joked that my coaches [TS]

00:03:39   will be the last one to turn the lights off at macro that the end mad world will [TS]

00:03:41   be just Jason in his garage [TS]

00:03:43   macworld and I had that route moment when I was watching you and Federico and [TS]

00:03:48   jim and people like that that I thought to myself well one if people can do that [TS]

00:03:53   on their own I don't need to do that here and if I'm gonna do that I want to [TS]

00:03:58   own it I wanna be that the person who does that not just kind of doing all my [TS]

00:04:03   work toward the mysterious overlords who owned a company who owns a company that [TS]

00:04:08   owns a company that owns Macworld [TS]

00:04:10   and so I was I was planning to anyway I've been thinking about it for a long [TS]

00:04:14   time for more than a year and then there was the two we we saw each other at xoxo [TS]

00:04:21   right afterward too so I I got to see you a couple of times right around that [TS]

00:04:25   crazy time I saw you at the Apple events i three times in like a week and was [TS]

00:04:32   really funny about that time is that because of the timing because we got the [TS]

00:04:35   the iPhone review units and the iPhone reviews were gonna drop the following [TS]

00:04:39   week and I had this moment where our normal person would have said I just [TS]

00:04:44   left my job of seventeen years I'm gonna take a few weeks to recalibrate decide [TS]

00:04:48   what I'm gonna do next and for me it was 18 already been thinking about what I [TS]

00:04:52   wanted to do next and to have that iPhone and was like everybody everybody [TS]

00:04:56   knows the biggest time of year for writing about Apple stuff is when the [TS]

00:04:59   new iPhone's iOS and Mac OS come out and that's now so I thought you know what I [TS]

00:05:05   don't want the site like next week and select literally less than a week after [TS]

00:05:09   I left macworld six colors launched not because I make total crazy person did [TS]

00:05:14   because I felt like I couldn't not be out there at that moment so I think it's [TS]

00:05:20   those two things that I managed to hit that site when when we were at the high [TS]

00:05:23   season for Apple stuff and because I don't think about it for so long that I [TS]

00:05:27   was ready to make it happen and that you know and it does feel in a feels great [TS]

00:05:33   to see what feels right to be doing it so I think all those things maybe feed [TS]

00:05:36   into why it feels like a natural thing and not some crazy thing that just [TS]

00:05:41   happened a couple months ago even though that's sort of what happened how long [TS]

00:05:44   were you at IDG [TS]

00:05:47   well as a macro macro seventeen years I've been doing this little more than 20 [TS]

00:05:54   coming up 21 years of sort of full-time Apple stuff that counts so it's always a [TS]

00:06:01   Mac user until 9794 297 and then what happened is that which is just hilarious [TS]

00:06:07   moment in history right 97 jobs coming back but but Apple is dying and [TS]

00:06:13   everybody's thinking now Apple's gonna go out at Macworld Expo they actually [TS]

00:06:16   have the cash infusion from Microsoft to keep the lights on and meanwhile they're [TS]

00:06:21   working on the iMac and at that moment that summer right before the bill gates [TS]

00:06:25   thing in the world expo in Boston the executives at IDG and injured Davis said [TS]

00:06:30   we need to cut our losses is gonna die and we get these two magazines in these [TS]

00:06:34   two big staff so when we just share the risk [TS]

00:06:38   put put the two organizations together lay off half of each staff and just sort [TS]

00:06:43   of stickam altogether make one magazine and what it will do that cuz albums [TS]

00:06:47   loser we really need to get out of this business was the single worst time just [TS]

00:06:53   terrible timing because you know a couple months later even it was clear [TS]

00:06:56   that Apple was gonna be probably OK and then very rapidly after that much better [TS]

00:07:00   than ok and so as a result I went over to Macworld and it was this weird [TS]

00:07:04   fifty-fifty joint venture where these two arch-enemy company is co-owned our [TS]

00:07:10   company and we read each others throats except for us and that was really [TS]

00:07:14   bizarre and then after a couple of years Davis was going through their getting [TS]

00:07:18   baden Rabat and different investors and had all sorts of financial problems [TS]

00:07:23   because the guy who started that company retired his son's didn't want to take [TS]

00:07:27   over the family business they sold it off you know it was a financial mess and [TS]

00:07:31   it was that Davis was built bills if and thus if brothers his kids were like [TS]

00:07:37   screw this media crap we're gonna be a venture capitalists and so they just [TS]

00:07:43   sold the business and they sold it to me it's kind of inside baseball but they [TS]

00:07:47   sold it to [TS]

00:07:49   I think Teddy Forstmann who was like one point had been romantically linked to [TS]

00:07:53   princess diana I mean like crazy stuff in then he sold it like a year later to [TS]

00:07:57   Masayoshi Son of Softbank in Japan who was who bought it I think Terry Forsman [TS]

00:08:02   picked up a billion dollars by holding it for a year [TS]

00:08:05   pretty good deal well good job daddy and thence South Bank talk about ancient [TS]

00:08:10   history they like just think about the basic story of picking up a billion [TS]

00:08:13   dollars by holding a monthly print magazine publisher oh yeah well I mean [TS]

00:08:20   it was not worth what must be some paid for it was a visionary but he was also [TS]

00:08:23   kind of crazy in the money he was spending was kind of crazy he said [TS]

00:08:26   around doing other stuff but anyway so that was so messed up that Davis was [TS]

00:08:30   like we want money and IDG was very much like oh well we we messed this up and we [TS]

00:08:37   want to be in the Apple business macworld was the first publication we [TS]

00:08:41   want to keep that going and so they bottomed out so the answer the question [TS]

00:08:45   is probably at IDG [TS]

00:08:46   you might start date as an employee was was twenty years but my my IDG employees [TS]

00:08:51   start date was different and that was like the end of ninety seven at the [TS]

00:08:55   beginning in ninety eight and then you know the buyout happened like around 99 [TS]

00:08:59   or 2000 so it's a weird situation where I ended up never having to fill out a [TS]

00:09:03   resume and had like worked for three different owners very strange only in [TS]

00:09:09   the media this crazy stuff like that right and you must have been really [TS]

00:09:14   really young when you started a Mac user must have been right out of college yeah [TS]

00:09:17   I I went to when I finish college I although my friends who got jobs in in [TS]

00:09:23   media were like working at weekly newspapers for like eleven thousand [TS]

00:09:26   dollars a year and I basically said forget it I'm not going to do that and [TS]

00:09:30   so I went to journalism school and although I enjoyed my time journalism [TS]

00:09:34   school [TS]

00:09:35   the fact is my my college newspaper was my journalism school and I learned how [TS]

00:09:38   to read news stories and features and edit stories all of that at the [TS]

00:09:42   newspaper the things I learned in Berkeley journalism school where they [TS]

00:09:46   didn't want to do TV news is I tried and I didn't like it and I met any contacts [TS]

00:09:52   I'm I met people including one of the editors and Mac user who taught a class [TS]

00:09:56   there and she got me an internship so I was an intern in nineteen [TS]

00:10:01   three when I was 22 and I had a job january ninety four so yeah I was 23 [TS]

00:10:06   when I started full time so I think that the historical context that you have to [TS]

00:10:11   remember is that the 96 97 was a terrible time for Apple and and a [TS]

00:10:18   terrible to even worse probably even worse than Apple itself was the [TS]

00:10:22   perception where they really were in trouble by any objective measure the [TS]

00:10:27   company was wasn't serious serious trouble both technically and financially [TS]

00:10:31   but even given that I think that the general perception was even worse that [TS]

00:10:38   it was I mean to say doom and gloom it's it's it's not you can't overstate it but [TS]

00:10:46   the perception was truly remember that I remember that we would be like to look [TS]

00:10:50   as it's not quite that bad but it was it was very much I think about this now [TS]

00:10:54   when the Apple AAPL is doomed has been a mean that's been around forever and it [TS]

00:10:58   continues to this day and on one level you know the people who make the [TS]

00:11:02   arguments today the facts of what their argument in our argument in to be stupid [TS]

00:11:07   that's not really a factor that you're not looking at the whole picture but in [TS]

00:11:11   the back of my mind I always have that moment of let's see what they're arguing [TS]

00:11:14   here because I was present at a time when doom and gloom was happening in [TS]

00:11:18   there was due and there was gloom and it at the time it did seem like it was a [TS]

00:11:23   little overstated but you know the fact was that that I don't think it was [TS]

00:11:27   overstated in that year in like 96 97 in the gill emilio and them searching for a [TS]

00:11:35   new operating system and and Steve Jobs coming in that seemed to be the point [TS]

00:11:40   where they were burning money and not selling a lot and the clones were eating [TS]

00:11:45   their lunch in terms of hardware sales so even there they're big install base [TS]

00:11:48   was not really benefiting them and that was where they were that was that was [TS]

00:11:53   when they were falling apart and and that's the area that you get the kind of [TS]

00:11:56   you know sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders kind of [TS]

00:12:01   quotes is that was a moment where it was unclear whether the executives at that [TS]

00:12:05   time were gonna listen to the advice of [TS]

00:12:09   you know analysts and pundits and like become a software company and try to be [TS]

00:12:14   Microsoft Windows and end up being like OS two and dying and and jobs to his [TS]

00:12:19   credit one of the things he did when he came back and was extremely unpopular [TS]

00:12:23   was killed the clones and say no no no we need to control the hardware we're [TS]

00:12:27   not going to just be another company we're going to control the hardware and [TS]

00:12:30   that decision actually factored into the publishing companies deciding to fold [TS]

00:12:35   Mac user into macworld was all the ad revenue is coming from those twenty [TS]

00:12:40   makers to and that just vanished Motorola power power power computing [TS]

00:12:46   Motorola super Mac which was a Humax didn't they call them super mega they [TS]

00:12:51   got that license from Apple for like scanners but it turned out they could [TS]

00:12:54   use it for anything so they called they could call them super Mac with the power [TS]

00:12:58   computing once called a power shower Powerwave Powerwave which was the which [TS]

00:13:05   was a that was my 19 apple computer that I've ever bought was a power computing [TS]

00:13:11   power wave power tower pro they had a whole bunch of power related things I I [TS]

00:13:16   never owned one but I we had a car used to couple it was when the Powerwave an [TS]

00:13:23   apparent our pro they were way better than the paramedics at the era really I [TS]

00:13:27   really do believe I mean they were all beige they were like they were great are [TS]

00:13:30   you get power computing days but they were all beige boxes but they were very [TS]

00:13:34   pretty cool they were like the essentially power computing was like [TS]

00:13:36   Dell Dell executives in in Austin and they were trying to use Dell [TS]

00:13:42   build-to-order you know you order it and then we make it and then we ship it to [TS]

00:13:46   you technologies to to cut cut their margins and have no inventory and it was [TS]

00:13:51   a pretty well run company I mean and I guess well-run enough that not only was [TS]

00:13:55   it that really the number one clone maker but it will run enough that they [TS]

00:13:58   had enough leverage of some kind that Apple just bought them out rather than [TS]

00:14:01   just letting them die [TS]

00:14:03   fight them legally exactly where we would be lawsuits for sure because I was [TS]

00:14:08   8 or not I was there we go [TS]

00:14:10   Mac OS aid my mistake would have been to call it system system sure Mac OS aid [TS]

00:14:17   was [TS]

00:14:18   a major update and what Apple Jobs realized and his people when they came [TS]

00:14:22   back is that the clone licenses for 47 so they basically said this is and you [TS]

00:14:27   don't get it and that was how they killed the clones pretty simple really [TS]

00:14:31   nice and clean and then they ended up paying some people off including buying [TS]

00:14:34   the assets of of power computing right because the original plan for Mac was it [TS]

00:14:38   was a little bit more ambitious than what it ended up being it was more or [TS]

00:14:43   less like a nicely cleaned up version of system subsidized with that theme to [TS]

00:14:49   make it look now right [TS]

00:14:51   never underestimate how much a new window chrome can make it look like [TS]

00:14:55   something that it wasn't but here's the thing the historical context i Apple it [TS]

00:15:00   was in severe trouble and it's no surprise that if Davison IDG would make [TS]

00:15:04   a deal like that but it is funny like you said like people don't remember this [TS]

00:15:08   and I was on the outside I wasn't writing you know I wasn't writing [TS]

00:15:12   anything you know from magazines at the time yet but I was no surprise a very [TS]

00:15:18   avid reader of both Mac users macworld alter the nineties so I was aware of [TS]

00:15:24   this but that it was this weird strange bedfellows things where when the unified [TS]

00:15:29   the two it was this joint venture between the two archrival 10 publishing [TS]

00:15:34   companies with a staff comprised of the two of of half of like literally we're [TS]

00:15:39   gonna lay off half your colleagues and then we're gonna stick you with your [TS]

00:15:43   arch enemies [TS]

00:15:44   magazine good luck as the owners it was a staff we were we were the Yankees and [TS]

00:15:51   the Red Sox ok and all of its cuz I have to have to use baseball metaphors when [TS]

00:15:56   I'm on the talk show and suddenly they're like ok we're gonna release half [TS]

00:16:00   and half the Red Sox and then you can have a new team good luck make the [TS]

00:16:04   chemistry work and it was a disaster relief I was always and there weren't [TS]

00:16:10   they were very different magazines I think you know from the outside view map [TS]

00:16:14   world was little bit more staid and buttoned up informal tone coverage in [TS]

00:16:23   Mac user was a little bit more casual and more like personal computer user [TS]

00:16:31   centric you know like we're assuming that you're a little bit more likely to [TS]

00:16:35   be a home user or a student or an enthusiast and Macworld was a little bit [TS]

00:16:40   more for the professional you're using a Mac at work and it was more [TS]

00:16:44   authoritative tone it was actually the tag line was the Macintosh authority at [TS]

00:16:48   one point and and it was the prestige I mean a bigger budget Mac user was always [TS]

00:16:55   a little more homespun a little more just as a reader and I was a reader of [TS]

00:16:59   both in and before I started to Mackay is there and it was a little more of the [TS]

00:17:04   rebels and the users and people who who don't go back a farm and analog would be [TS]

00:17:11   something like a little bit Mac addict was even more so I think a rebellious [TS]

00:17:17   kind of thing but that was definitely the the voice difference between Mac [TS]

00:17:21   user and Macworld [TS]

00:17:22   which is funny because when you think about it they were like the two [TS]

00:17:26   magazines in the us- that were monthly that had roughly the same budget you [TS]

00:17:29   know the Mac users but roughly the same doing the same thing [TS]

00:17:33   their headquarters at the end there were like two blocks away from each other so [TS]

00:17:37   these are you couldn't find things that were more similar and yet the output was [TS]

00:17:40   different and the staffs were different in the culture is different so it's kind [TS]

00:17:43   of funny that even though we had all of these things in common [TS]

00:17:46   the products were different and the people were different I do think to as [TS]

00:17:52   an outside observer and someone who is very critical I thought both were [TS]

00:17:54   excellent things I agree especially compared to the other PC type magazines [TS]

00:18:02   of the year we were in the same building as like PC computing and and there was [TS]

00:18:08   also PC Mac and PC world and I didn't read them alive but yeah and Macworld [TS]

00:18:14   was full of the old man was full of people who really they wanted to be in [TS]

00:18:19   the magazine business and they they had high aspirations and you would see it [TS]

00:18:22   and at a Mac user [TS]

00:18:23   it was a combination you look at their issues when they come out you'd be like [TS]

00:18:26   oh wow look what they did with that is they did the same stories a lot of them [TS]

00:18:30   that we did right there's a new Apple product how are we gonna do it how are [TS]

00:18:32   they going to do it you could just compare which is like that is some [TS]

00:18:36   serious competition like you put it to bed and you wait two weeks and then [TS]

00:18:39   suddenly out of the mailbox comes the competition what they do and did you [TS]

00:18:44   beat them today be you and they they would you would look at some of the [TS]

00:18:48   things and be like wow that is they did a really good job other times they they [TS]

00:18:52   you know we we did someone better but then they would really do is they would [TS]

00:18:56   have these ambitions to do like like New York New York magazine industry kind of [TS]

00:19:02   stories bigger picture stories and big features and big ideas and some of those [TS]

00:19:06   were real successes for them and some of those were I would say failures that [TS]

00:19:11   we're kind of the hubris of like you know yeah we're mackerel but really we [TS]

00:19:15   might as well be vanity fair and I think that was a part of their culture their [TS]

00:19:19   where macworld that and Mac user was more you know Apple people who were [TS]

00:19:25   there because they loved writing about technology and this is not entirely true [TS]

00:19:30   of both staffs but I would take predominantly there were many more [TS]

00:19:34   people who love magazines and we're writing a technology magazine because [TS]

00:19:37   that was the job at Macworld and there were more people who were there because [TS]

00:19:42   they love the technology and happened to get a job writing about [TS]

00:19:45   magazine Mac user we were more and you saw it in the end the people who stuck [TS]

00:19:49   around covering Apple afterward and writing about tag afterward were mostly [TS]

00:19:53   people from Mac user and not dramatic world gather people from macro I [TS]

00:19:57   remember who obviously gone on to you know to continue to do great work [TS]

00:20:02   pope was a back page columnist and Steven Steven Lee video was not on staff [TS]

00:20:08   they were they were freelance columnist but yes I did a lot of the back page [TS]

00:20:12   columns you know for a while and that was that was great features for us and [TS]

00:20:19   he read the back page and and he was a pleasure to work with and I still keep [TS]

00:20:24   in touch with him was it was a pleasure to work with my plan was always to [TS]

00:20:28   figure out a way that I could get to that back page without having to do any [TS]

00:20:32   of the work of regular editorial staff for four years before published and I [TS]

00:20:40   wound up figuring out to such a way and I think I would say this into that the [TS]

00:20:46   person who to me [TS]

00:20:48   best exemplified the Mac users side of that split the fact that Andy in ATCO [TS]

00:20:53   was on was a Mac user writer time and you know talk about another guy who's [TS]

00:20:59   never been you know still at the top of his game now and still writing about the [TS]

00:21:04   same stuff but the way that his his writing is so infused with his personal [TS]

00:21:10   style right was very very Mac user [TS]

00:21:14   you know that we're just gonna let where we've got this not on our staff and [TS]

00:21:17   we're just going to let him know I mean that Mac user was it was Andy and Chris [TS]

00:21:21   Breen and Pablo vidas and I mean these are people who write with personality [TS]

00:21:26   and that was definitely the idea when I got to Macworld that was one of the [TS]

00:21:32   things that surprised me is that there was a statement that they value their [TS]

00:21:36   writers that I heard a lot but it did seem to me that it was also a machine [TS]

00:21:40   kind of generating consistent copy and what you do when you generate consistent [TS]

00:21:47   copies you also stand that voice and I would say that was much tighter on that [TS]

00:21:52   front but also had less boyce and was definitely messier [TS]

00:21:55   it was it was you know i i would say in fact you go back and look at all Mac [TS]

00:21:59   users stuff and you tell me which which Mac user macworld which one would see [TS]

00:22:04   more reasonable on a blog today it's very clear Mac user was in that they [TS]

00:22:07   were they were much looser and had more voice than that I remember arguing with [TS]

00:22:14   fellow editorial staff resign my college newspaper trucks all 94 95 96 about [TS]

00:22:22   which was better and two other guys who really really you know both India [TS]

00:22:28   braiding and pursuing careers in writing or thinking about the least and where [TS]

00:22:32   Magners and read both magazines monthly the other two guys Adam and Andrew both [TS]

00:22:36   on them out come on back roads better magazine because I think that they were [TS]

00:22:41   looking at that you know like you said like it's a little bit more like a time [TS]

00:22:44   magazine magazine polished and well as always very polished didn't like polish [TS]

00:22:50   but it it to me I'm I R good member my argument was it just seems to me like [TS]

00:22:54   the people in Mac user are having more fun doing they're having more fun [TS]

00:22:58   putting musicians out and I was like why why would you want to get into this if [TS]

00:23:02   it wasn't too have fun when I was a great I mean I still stand with those [TS]

00:23:05   people from Mac user and I i dont know I assume that the macro people stay in [TS]

00:23:09   touch too I really can't speak to that side but we were it was agreed it was a [TS]

00:23:12   great group of people and that was yeah we're very proud of our product I would [TS]

00:23:17   say that it was less polished only in in calculated ways like you wanted to look [TS]

00:23:25   a little wacky and and and be a little messier because that shows the [TS]

00:23:29   personality but it was not like we didn't know what we were doing it was [TS]

00:23:32   like you know let's that was what we were trying to do it's like a band [TS]

00:23:37   making an album that sounds raw and super produced its because you want it [TS]

00:23:42   that the effect you want and and honestly if you're if you're the number [TS]

00:23:46   two then you don't want to pretend to be number one you want to do something [TS]

00:23:50   different and that was very definitely number 22 macworld so that was what we [TS]

00:23:54   did and it's it's just funny that in the end in the end I spent 17 years old but [TS]

00:24:01   if you'd asked me the first three years I was working in the business of you go [TS]

00:24:04   Mac relate those guys [TS]

00:24:06   and and Brandon I'm most associated with in my career which is just crazy and [TS]

00:24:12   every now and then on Twitter I get there two things I get like there's an [TS]

00:24:16   alarm that goes up every three months or so somebody sends me a thing saying is [TS]

00:24:19   this you at the at the iPod announcement event because there is a reversal of the [TS]

00:24:24   audience a couple of times and I minute I'm totally yes it is me and the other [TS]

00:24:29   one that pops up is hey I was watching this rerun of friends and there's and [TS]

00:24:34   Chandler is reading an issue of Macworld and I thought you know and they think of [TS]

00:24:39   me and they're like oh isn't this cool it wasn't friends and I appreciate that [TS]

00:24:42   because of thinking of me in connection with the brand that's great I was a Mac [TS]

00:24:47   user with that episode was so pissed off at Macworld Chandler would have been a [TS]

00:24:54   Mac user guide yeah I know you could he be more of a Mac user guide but in the [TS]

00:24:58   end now I like I love it because there's a mad magazine and friends that's great [TS]

00:25:02   that would be that guy would read computer magazine that was shorthand for [TS]

00:25:07   what kind of a nerd he was and that's great but it's funny cuz that's how far [TS]

00:25:10   I've come around now is at the time it was just it infuriating cuz our [TS]

00:25:14   arch-enemy got on must see TV on NBC and now I look back and it's like a look at [TS]

00:25:20   my friends it's great it's just it you know that's what happens I end up [TS]

00:25:24   spending 17 years at what was originally the arch enemy I i imagine that's not [TS]

00:25:29   using the baseball metaphor but I imagine that's what it's like if you [TS]

00:25:31   like a giant fan and then you end up getting drafted by the Dodgers and play [TS]

00:25:35   for the Dodgers suck well you know now I'm a Dodger fan it's great but I'm not [TS]

00:25:41   there anymore and I'm here or that your son or something you know we're just [TS]

00:25:45   changes your perception after who gives a crap you know you know this plan for [TS]

00:25:51   the Red Sox you know next day you're going out you're buying a lot of Red Sox [TS]

00:25:54   and then before before we leave the subject the last thing I wanted to touch [TS]

00:26:01   on those that Apple terrible shape 96 97 print industry as a whole [TS]

00:26:08   almost unspeakable II high at that time like buchanan you think in hindsight [TS]

00:26:14   what how could that be because I think in hindsight we can all see the writing [TS]

00:26:18   was on [TS]

00:26:19   war that newspaper and magazine publishers didn't get the internet still [TS]

00:26:27   don't to a large extent and that it even if they did that way that it was gonna [TS]

00:26:33   affect advertising revenue and the time that people spend reading and how they [TS]

00:26:38   spend reading it was all going to be massively disrupted and you'd think by [TS]

00:26:43   97 98 [TS]

00:26:45   that would have been evident but it wasn't because profits were at an [TS]

00:26:48   all-time high and I say this as someone who was at the time working as a graphic [TS]

00:26:54   designer at the philadelphia inquirer [TS]

00:26:57   they had the money was a mean that was where all the advertising was there was [TS]

00:27:01   no there was momentum on the internet people were getting interested in it but [TS]

00:27:04   there was no money would be crazy and I you know I had somebody tell me we're [TS]

00:27:08   not interested in doing a web page is the future is on compuserve I mean it [TS]

00:27:11   was just they were not there was so much money in print advertising my computer [TS]

00:27:16   shopper which was also is if Davis property when I was at the Davis that [TS]

00:27:19   was like a phone book that came out every month and all it was was adds [TS]

00:27:22   there was enough editorial to allow them to use the editorial rate when they [TS]

00:27:26   shifted in the in the post [TS]

00:27:28   postal service but it was it was not meant as an editorial product was a [TS]

00:27:31   catalog and that was just literally we just made a thing so you can put your [TS]

00:27:35   ads in this thing and then we'll send it out that we could I was the world that [TS]

00:27:38   and the reason why was because the only way that as somebody who is going to be [TS]

00:27:42   buying external hard drives or skazhi cables or printer cartridges are all of [TS]

00:27:51   the various crap that you needed to buy to keep your office running you needed [TS]

00:27:57   something like computer shopper so that you could see what was available and [TS]

00:28:02   what it costs and that was how you shop for stuff I'm when I write when the [TS]

00:28:08   macro thing happen and I was going to xoxo Patel from the birds immune email [TS]

00:28:14   and said would you like to Reddit reddit thing we're scanning about old metal [TS]

00:28:16   covers which led to read a thing about the fundamentals in prison I said sure [TS]

00:28:20   and that was that was what I ended up going with his I thought ok verges [TS]

00:28:23   audiences is pretty young they may not even remember [TS]

00:28:26   computer magazines anything because of an oddity you see in an airport or [TS]

00:28:30   something and that was the point I made was there was a time when the only way [TS]

00:28:34   you found out about a new product and the only way you found like what you [TS]

00:28:37   could buy was by buying a computer magazines like the computer magazine [TS]

00:28:41   would come out and you would you would pore over the pages to find out what [TS]

00:28:45   Apple announced tour with Microsoft announced or whatever you were [TS]

00:28:47   interested in and then in the backyard leaf through and be like you know what [TS]

00:28:51   monitor should I get or what cable can I get an you know there's an ad here for [TS]

00:28:55   you no 1 800 max and here's Mac warehouse over here in club back over [TS]

00:28:59   there and you you pour over that stuff and I did that I mean I would go through [TS]

00:29:03   those issues [TS]

00:29:04   ten twenty times parsing every sentence about which powerbook I wanted to buy [TS]

00:29:08   and parsing every list of products in the different back of the magazine [TS]

00:29:14   catalogs for the best you know the best deal on some accessory in the new colony [TS]

00:29:18   hundred-number and giving your credit card and then ship it to you and you get [TS]

00:29:22   it like five days later that was the way though the tech world worked now it's [TS]

00:29:27   really different back then that was the magazine was not the only but almost the [TS]

00:29:31   only conduit for that information [TS]

00:29:33   people just did not see the destruction coming newspapers is classified at right [TS]

00:29:40   thing needed to buy like you need to run it you got a new apartment moving out of [TS]

00:29:46   town and by September you've got to find a new place to live with the only way to [TS]

00:29:50   do it was today to use a newspaper there was there was no plan B is it was [TS]

00:29:57   essentially a monopoly just because of the you know that they were the only [TS]

00:30:00   ones maybe there's a weekly I will say the one thing that I think was a sign in [TS]

00:30:05   hindsight of the magazine stuff on the part was all of those catalogs started [TS]

00:30:10   printing you know they they started doing all their money into cadillacs [TS]

00:30:14   like we're gonna print catalog in the mail order companies just became [TS]

00:30:17   catalogs and they they they took the hit on postage in hindsight I also think [TS]

00:30:23   they should just hired a couple of young editors to wrap enough content around it [TS]

00:30:27   to call it a magazine Mac warehouse magazine but and that actually really [TS]

00:30:32   put that was the first time I think this computer magazines really felt the pain [TS]

00:30:37   of [TS]

00:30:38   of their ad revenues going down was the catalogues were like a guaranteed seller [TS]

00:30:44   for them and then suddenly they would pull out and go back down to a couple of [TS]

00:30:47   pages because you know they would they would rent the list from Macworld and [TS]

00:30:52   then send everybody who gets macworld the catalog and it was cheaper and it [TS]

00:30:56   was less money for Macworld and that totally happened so that there were some [TS]

00:30:59   signs right that things were starting to break apart and computer readers are [TS]

00:31:03   always going to be the first one to embrace that new technology so I always [TS]

00:31:07   knew that they would be the ones to we would we would feel it first and we will [TS]

00:31:11   delete it [TS]

00:31:12   yeah and it's it's the same reason why ten fifteen years ago [TS]

00:31:20   blogs first started becoming a thing that so many of them were technology [TS]

00:31:27   focus adjusted unbelievably disproportionate number of them are [TS]

00:31:32   technology focus compared to the interests of the world at large because [TS]

00:31:37   the people who are enthusiastic about technology you were able to get up and [TS]

00:31:45   that's the story of my life which is a nice job at a publisher and so when I [TS]

00:31:51   wanted to experiment with blogs I couldn't really read about technology [TS]

00:31:53   because it was my day job so you know all those great tech blogs being founded [TS]

00:31:57   then and I didn't like a stupid TV blog which was great and it was early in the [TS]

00:32:00   days of blogging and I learned a lot but that was one of those funny things that [TS]

00:32:04   I ended up experimenting in all of these other areas because my employer wasn't [TS]

00:32:08   that interested in experimenting and who's there that's you know that's why [TS]

00:32:13   do so many side projects is four years my employer wasn't interested in trying [TS]

00:32:17   those things out there were there we're looking at where all the money was [TS]

00:32:20   coming from which is that that's the core of the innovator's dilemma right is [TS]

00:32:24   very hard to focus on something when there is this giant second money rain [TS]

00:32:27   for any let me take a break and thank for sponsoring the show [TS]

00:32:33   it is our good friends at pack place you guys know back please [TS]

00:32:37   online unrivaled unlimited backup for the mac and people write to me sometimes [TS]

00:32:45   there's unlimited what do you mean and I'm town yet whatever you've got [TS]

00:32:50   connected to you [TS]

00:32:50   you've got three terabyte drive 6 terabyte drive in its all filled up with [TS]

00:32:55   junk Backblaze will back it doesn't matter they don't charge extra if you [TS]

00:33:00   have more it just takes longer for the initial backup that's if there's a catch [TS]

00:33:04   that's it that if you've got six terabytes of stuff to back up well it's [TS]

00:33:08   going to take a long time to get a backup backup backup and then it just [TS]

00:33:12   everything else is incremental after that you just install back place on your [TS]

00:33:19   Mac I can't emphasize how some pluses install it you sign up for an account [TS]

00:33:23   you don't have to pay for a month free [TS]

00:33:27   try it out everything gets backed up and then what do you do from that point [TS]

00:33:31   forward to stay backed up nothing you just keep your Mac running and it runs [TS]

00:33:35   in the background and every once in awhile just uploads what's new [TS]

00:33:39   keeps everything they've got an iPhone app so that you can access your account [TS]

00:33:44   which will get you access to anything any of your files that are back-to-back [TS]

00:33:47   plays you can just grab them from the iPhone app at any time [TS]

00:33:52   email right there from your iPhone or whatever when you're away from your Mac [TS]

00:33:55   so it's got plenty of uses that are not just about catastrophic oh my God my [TS]

00:34:00   whole computer is broken [TS]

00:34:02   whole hard drive froze up I've got nothing I need to restore everything [TS]

00:34:06   they can deal with that but it's also useful for just restoring one file at a [TS]

00:34:11   time when you're on the road at somewhere else and you just need to grab [TS]

00:34:15   it could not be more useful either way when you do need a full thing if you [TS]

00:34:19   need your whole system restored you don't have to wait to download the whole [TS]

00:34:23   thing you can you can pay a little bit of money and put everything on a USB [TS]

00:34:28   hard drive and overnight it to you and then boom they are the next day with [TS]

00:34:32   hard drive with all of your stuff unbelievable peace of mind knowing [TS]

00:34:37   you've got everything backed up offline out of your house out of your office [TS]

00:34:42   where do you go to find out more I can't believe there's still people who listen [TS]

00:34:48   to the show [TS]

00:34:48   haven't signed up here's where you go go to Backblaze dot com slash daring [TS]

00:34:53   fireball you get a risk-free no credit card required trial just install it try [TS]

00:34:59   it I guarantee you you'll sign up and then after that here's what you pay you [TS]

00:35:02   pay five bucks a month per Mac that you're backing up that's it [TS]

00:35:07   five bucks a month everything backed up so my thanks to back place just a [TS]

00:35:13   tremendous tremendous service really I say that before I say it again I hope [TS]

00:35:17   they stop sponsoring the show because everybody who listens to the show signed [TS]

00:35:20   up for them at some point which brings me to a post you had on 66 colors this [TS]

00:35:30   week about sponsorship that in Goa which you say no other gatekeeper but me and [TS]

00:35:40   you wrote there one of the privileges of being an editor that before you don't [TS]

00:35:44   have to worry about that there really was a separation between editorial and [TS]

00:35:49   sales [TS]

00:35:49   you know that you just worried about you guys on the editorial side just worried [TS]

00:35:52   about where you gonna write about and yet to sell stuff that's old stuff and [TS]

00:35:55   you know in theory told that in theory they could have sold an ad that you guys [TS]

00:35:59   were you know some somehow uncomfortable with than you could have had a [TS]

00:36:03   discussion or whatever but for the most part you didn't need to worry about it [TS]

00:36:06   but now as one person publishing company [TS]

00:36:11   you do yeah there was a turns out there is a great luxury in being able to be an [TS]

00:36:16   editor at large organization and winsome that is selling me like we had a bunch [TS]

00:36:22   of like DVD Ripper apps that were you know spamming or forums and writing [TS]

00:36:29   these fake post native add posts about that were posing as how to use but it [TS]

00:36:34   was for their software industry awful gently stuff and we had the luxury of [TS]

00:36:38   being behind the scenes we would complain about that but we also the [TS]

00:36:40   luxury of saying hey guys it's not us [TS]

00:36:42   you know we have sales people they don't tell us what to write and we don't tell [TS]

00:36:45   them what to sell and when you are in my position and your position I mean you've [TS]

00:36:51   got right now I don't have anybody selling spots for me but that might [TS]

00:36:58   happen down the road [TS]

00:37:00   my recording dial me know you've got somebody said something about it still [TS]

00:37:05   small operations like you you get you and maybe Dave working on an ad sales [TS]

00:37:10   and and you know it comes to you you're the proprietor even if you've got [TS]

00:37:13   somebody selling for you and with podcasts like this when I have somebody [TS]

00:37:16   to lean on my podcaster you do when you've got your the proprietor [TS]

00:37:21   even if you've got somebody selling it and you have to make that decision you [TS]

00:37:23   have to say is okay and and so even if it's not you know every ad is not a [TS]

00:37:31   personal endorsement and you can't have somebody say that to me and I wrote [TS]

00:37:35   about it [TS]

00:37:35   posts like i dont another developer but I know I can look at a developer service [TS]

00:37:41   or tool and say that's too seems good to me that seems on the up-and-up it's [TS]

00:37:44   worth it if it's with the audience yeah you can't have you can't have it like I [TS]

00:37:47   know it sounds great that you would only take a sponsorship from a service or [TS]

00:37:52   product that you actually use and the deck for a while maybe they still even [TS]

00:37:58   say that but then with the decades of big 30 site network and its not that [TS]

00:38:02   hard to say that somebody somewhere in the network is using this thing but when [TS]

00:38:07   it's just you and it's just me I can't do that now and and it's not even fair [TS]

00:38:11   like I used BB code something up I used when I accept a sponsorship from Kota of [TS]

00:38:19   course I would code is an amazing out from a great company and in theory I [TS]

00:38:24   maybe someday I would use it as my criteria is is this something that I [TS]

00:38:29   would recommend because I use it that that criteria isn't too limiting is this [TS]

00:38:35   something that I would recommend readers investigate and consider yes absolutely [TS]

00:38:40   that's right criteria and has to cross it has a little harder to define but it [TS]

00:38:45   has to cross that level to be [TS]

00:38:48   something you feel comfortable on one level it's just to be comfortable with [TS]

00:38:52   it and say I think this is a legitimate product all that again I don't wanna [TS]

00:38:55   throw the guys under the bus who did that sponsorship of the fact it and they [TS]

00:38:58   have a story and I think part of the problem is a language barrier and [TS]

00:39:01   although I'm skeptical of that product and tell iris products including iOS [TS]

00:39:06   computer virus that seems really shady to me and they have you know again they [TS]

00:39:12   have a marketing story that I think they're not telling effectively but the [TS]

00:39:15   bottom line was I don't believe in iOS antivirus I don't think that's a thing [TS]

00:39:19   and I don't think I think my audience doesn't think that's the thing and I'm [TS]

00:39:22   skeptical about Mac antivirus but at least I'm a little more open minded [TS]

00:39:25   about that and so when it when I posted this thing which you know I didn't I [TS]

00:39:31   didn't read the stuff closely when I gotta cuz I was traveling and I put it [TS]

00:39:34   up in like before as I was going out the door and then people started saying what [TS]

00:39:39   the hell is this and I you know I didn't have an answer for them and that was [TS]

00:39:44   that moment you know if i dont can't conceive of somebody asking me and me [TS]

00:39:50   having an answer that's probably not a product as if I'm not comfortable [TS]

00:39:53   standing by it to that point not saying I tried it not like it but I think this [TS]

00:39:57   is a reasonable reasonable person would think that this product is interesting [TS]

00:40:01   and you should check it out that that to me would be the difference and so you [TS]

00:40:07   know while sitting in the passenger seat of my car i didnt blew up while I drove [TS]

00:40:11   the first leg of the second leg and I opened up my phone unlike OG's and in [TS]

00:40:16   the course of an hour I responded to the tweets about it look more at at at at [TS]

00:40:23   the company's responses thought about it a little bit and then I actually opened [TS]

00:40:29   up you know I transmit for iOS and edited the include file for the sponsor [TS]

00:40:33   my server and I took it out and i deleted their post and I posted a tweet [TS]

00:40:37   about it and I sent an email to the guy saying look I'm gonna get a refund your [TS]

00:40:40   money but I'm not going to I'm not gonna run the ad cause I'm not comfortable [TS]

00:40:43   with it my audience is comfortable with it and actually got a text from Lex [TS]

00:40:48   Friedman saying what it what if I what if I sell that spot for you I said sure [TS]

00:40:54   go ahead [TS]

00:40:54   you want to sell it and he did and I posted the new ad all all from sitting [TS]

00:41:00   in the [TS]

00:41:00   passenger seat of my car my phone which is a pretty fun like technology story [TS]

00:41:04   but but yeah it was it was educational I couldn't run and hide behind the sales [TS]

00:41:11   people and you're you're in the exact same boat and Jim Dalrymple is in the [TS]

00:41:15   same boat all of us who are out here doing this thing we aren't we aren't [TS]

00:41:20   insulated like so we have to make different rules and and there is an [TS]

00:41:23   expectation that some people have that when we read an ad on podcaster or post [TS]

00:41:28   a sponsor on our sites that it's a personal endorsement and what I will say [TS]

00:41:32   is if I have used the product I will and I want to talk about that I will talk [TS]

00:41:36   about it but you're not your money doesn't buy my personal endorsement my [TS]

00:41:40   personal endorsement can't be for sale that's the flip side of the family is [TS]

00:41:44   impractical to try every product and not every product is for you even though you [TS]

00:41:47   know what's good [TS]

00:41:48   the flip side is I want the freedom to evaluate every product that I want to [TS]

00:41:52   and if I'm selling evaluations that calls the whole thing into questions you [TS]

00:41:57   have to you know those rules are very different than if you're in a big [TS]

00:42:00   editorial organization we still have to kind of come up with the rules and tried [TS]

00:42:03   to disclose them to your audience as best you can I think but it was a good [TS]

00:42:07   lesson for me I'll tell you that antivirus falls into it interesting [TS]

00:42:13   crevice it's a close call and and I would say that the sibling antivirus our [TS]

00:42:22   system clean up utilities oh yeah yeah and I don't think I've ever taken a [TS]

00:42:32   sponsorship for a antivirus because I really do believe strongly that you not [TS]

00:42:39   only don't need it on a Mac but you actually caught typically cause more [TS]

00:42:43   harm than good [TS]

00:42:44   really do believe that and you know for iOS that even more so I think it's at [TS]

00:42:50   that point you're talking about snake oil [TS]

00:42:52   now there's possible you know I don't know the case of this month so you're [TS]

00:42:56   talking about it possible that you could use something on iOS that would have [TS]

00:43:01   something to do with antivirus where you're scanning email attachments [TS]

00:43:05   somehow I think that's what they're doing is this attachment in your email [TS]

00:43:08   and maybe in your Dropbox or stuff like that right [TS]

00:43:11   viruses but it's not going to affect your your iOS device right it's not so [TS]

00:43:15   hard for me to come up with a what if scenario where it would have some actual [TS]

00:43:19   practical utility in theory but I don't see how it exactly it's not actually [TS]

00:43:25   doing anti piracy at the system level on iOS like what you think of traditional [TS]

00:43:29   and simplified a marketing message and its protect your right your iPhone and [TS]

00:43:32   that's not right and that's that's I think that's where a lot of this this [TS]

00:43:36   comes from and they clean up utilities are to me it's a little bit more like [TS]

00:43:42   the antivirus to me is a little bit more on the dark side of the gray area and [TS]

00:43:46   the cleanup utilities are little bit more on the light side but I have have [TS]

00:43:50   have had sponsors who run you know clean up utilities and I think it's been [TS]

00:43:55   awhile I remember somebody on Twitter one time just you know they weren't [TS]

00:43:59   being antagonistic they weren't trying to to to jab me but it was an honest [TS]

00:44:03   question nearly do you use this would you recommend it and I remember thinking [TS]

00:44:07   like probably not and I kind of felt a little like I didn't take the [TS]

00:44:12   sponsorship back and I don't quite regret it but it was closest I've ever [TS]

00:44:16   come because I wasn't sure because I don't think a lot of that stuff is all [TS]

00:44:20   that useful either I feel like part of the genius of the OS 10 system design is [TS]

00:44:28   that you don't typically get the system doesn't degrade over time did happen [TS]

00:44:35   with classic Mac OS in if you weren't careful they want a Mac I mean so many [TS]

00:44:42   of these things happen because it's like we have a problem with an injury product [TS]

00:44:45   we need products and they can't really do much but they want to have that that [TS]

00:44:50   spread of products and so they come out with one although you know clean up [TS]

00:44:54   especially with SSDs there's totally and they may be out there but it's totally a [TS]

00:44:58   good case to be made for clean that's doing smart things like you got [TS]

00:45:01   preferences from [TS]

00:45:02   apps from 2004 that you that you migrated and you've got duplicate files [TS]

00:45:07   in all these different places and you get iTunes Match turned on but like so I [TS]

00:45:11   could save a lot of space by deleting your music folder stuff like that there [TS]

00:45:17   there is an argument to be made but you're right then you get into details [TS]

00:45:21   until I can do I really believe in this particular product enough to not enough [TS]

00:45:25   to endorse it but enough to expose my audience to it that cause there is there [TS]

00:45:29   is some understanding between between us and our audiences that some of the stuff [TS]

00:45:35   going to be vetted at least right on the up-and-up right not necessarily we [TS]

00:45:40   endorse it news personally but it's on the up and up and I i think thats right [TS]

00:45:44   I think they should expect that from us that the next date all the way back to [TS]

00:45:51   next but that the cocoa preferences system is so braindead super simple it's [TS]

00:45:58   you know it's not genius because it's this complicated genius system it's [TS]

00:46:02   genius because just simple it's like one of the simplest stupidest things they [TS]

00:46:08   could do where each app has a unique identifier and they just use domain name [TS]

00:46:13   so like you know like bare-bones its com dot bare-bones . BBEdit yeah . plist [TS]

00:46:21   file goes in your library preferences folder and it's guaranteed to be unique [TS]

00:46:26   because that domain name belongs to bare bones that they get to control that you [TS]

00:46:30   know there's com dot Apple . male for male and it's just a file and the app [TS]

00:46:36   reads from that file and your preferences and if you delete BBEdit and [TS]

00:46:42   that com dot bare-bones . you to delete the app that files is sitting there it's [TS]

00:46:47   only a couple hundred kilobytes and it never gets in the way it's not like a [TS]

00:46:51   database that's getting gummed up it's just a file in the folder in your you [TS]

00:46:56   know there is no harm so if you've tried fifty different text editors and then [TS]

00:47:01   settled on one those 49 preferences files in your preferences folder don't [TS]

00:47:05   slow a damn thing down [TS]

00:47:07   know it's gonna be when you get adobe cs4 and cs5 cs6 in there or on the other [TS]

00:47:12   hand like something like well I never use GarageBand so I delete the garage [TS]

00:47:15   band that man has a four hundred mega loops and loops yeah there's there's so [TS]

00:47:23   there's like a huge Application Support folder relatively huge compared to most [TS]

00:47:28   ads that you know and again if you're on an SSD and space is at a premium because [TS]

00:47:33   you know like the default SSD is still a 256 gigabytes you could save some [TS]

00:47:39   serious space and it's hidden away now that the library folders invisible by [TS]

00:47:45   the fall [TS]

00:47:46   foremost you know 44 new user accounts it's not something you know I can see [TS]

00:47:53   how a cleaning utility could actually help like a typical user if it was [TS]

00:47:57   carefully written you know but it's a borderline call can I tell you about my [TS]

00:48:02   favorite my favorite preference joke at Adobe of course there is in mind me [TS]

00:48:12   being yours too I don't know in my user library folder so guilty / library [TS]

00:48:17   there's a folder the Application Support folder right which is where you're [TS]

00:48:21   supposed to read all your folders I reread your preference files I also have [TS]

00:48:25   a folder in my library called application support / Adobe / Acrobat as [TS]

00:48:32   the name of the folder I don't even know that I didn't even know that was allowed [TS]

00:48:39   to have / as in a in a folder named but somehow they did it [TS]

00:48:43   you magnificent bastard who did it and I just makes me want to delete it and yet [TS]

00:48:49   every time I see it it just makes me laugh like how incompetent is that good [TS]

00:48:55   job here in the Application Support folder totally nailed it [TS]

00:49:00   screenshot it's it's super nerdy [TS]

00:49:06   but that was actually went when when the next acquisition was made and where we [TS]

00:49:18   gonna make one operating system with the best of everything one of the problems [TS]

00:49:23   was next was a traditional UNIX system that uses / as the directory separator [TS]

00:49:29   so / was not a backslash but you know / was something that you couldn't put into [TS]

00:49:36   a file named her folder named you try to type it would give you a minus or [TS]

00:49:41   something right but HFS Apple disc format where circus oh well whatever HFS [TS]

00:49:52   used system file system used a colon colon was the separate raids are you [TS]

00:49:58   couldn't type of colon in a name so you could type slashes and sauce you know [TS]

00:50:02   like a publication you might preach [TS]

00:50:04   issue of a newspaper a weekly newspaper I think maybe we did you know it would [TS]

00:50:13   be like you know month / week month or year / month / date and so we had all [TS]

00:50:22   these things that slashes in the actual file names and there was seem like [TS]

00:50:30   something's gotta give here but there was a white paper he wrote it but I met [TS]

00:50:37   him [TS]

00:50:37   there's an ex engineer wrote a white papers figuring out a way to is [TS]

00:50:41   conveniently solve it [TS]

00:50:42   bottom line you know the bottom line the penalty we had to pay is that you can't [TS]

00:50:48   have a colon or a slashing funding for real but you can look it looks like you [TS]

00:50:54   have a slash in filename it somehow is fake like when it looks like you're / in [TS]

00:51:00   a filename it's not a slash of it but it all worked out it actually did work out [TS]

00:51:07   we had we had that we have a catastrophe where we we we did that we at some point [TS]

00:51:12   at Macworld changed our founding form it used to be the volume number in the [TS]

00:51:17   issue numbers so it'd be like 16 / 04 and that was the whatever that was April [TS]

00:51:24   of cd4 + 16 Friday April 2000 issue and when I was 10 and we moved in Malta [TS]

00:51:33   dashes because we are afraid there was a period where I was 10 would not let you [TS]

00:51:37   input the / it would it would transmog refine it on the fly to a dash dash is [TS]

00:51:43   where dangerous and to this day my scripts I have to do a lot of you know [TS]

00:51:47   POSIX path stuff because if you get if you get an alias in the Finder it comes [TS]

00:51:54   in with colon delimited and then there are other tools that wanted as a as a as [TS]

00:51:59   a UNIX path of POSIX path and you have to do like POSIX pass path of alias in [TS]

00:52:05   order to get it in the right format so that you can you can send it to a script [TS]

00:52:08   or something [TS]

00:52:09   yeah I don't think anybody is is more familiar with the crazy rules over how [TS]

00:52:15   to specify HFS versus you passed than anybody's really Apple script it's why [TS]

00:52:22   is this not working right [TS]

00:52:24   now it needs to be in a UNIX [TS]

00:52:27   inevitably without a script boy we are in the weeds now you you used to shell [TS]

00:52:34   script which is an incredible Boone Apple script to be able to fire off a [TS]

00:52:38   unix script and get a result that it's great but if you're using something in [TS]

00:52:44   the Finder UNIX shell script doesn't understand those Collins so you need to [TS]

00:52:48   convert it and then you sent it off and so that yeah that happens all the time [TS]

00:52:54   yeah I do that with markdown actually that that was one of the things I would [TS]

00:53:01   always do is i'd like grab something in return marked down and get the results [TS]

00:53:05   back that you got to get the right to wear what we talked about before file [TS]

00:53:11   system well all days next couple sponsors sponsored conflicts I think [TS]

00:53:23   that's where ya i think thats probably I remember in the early days of doin [TS]

00:53:28   sponsorships during fireball weekly one that I was telling myself the first [TS]

00:53:38   conflict I can remember having was in this is the time to remember it for a [TS]

00:53:42   brief period there was some controversy over app bundles oh yeah yeah definitely [TS]

00:53:47   you know like those you would like and I [TS]

00:53:55   come out sort of against him as sort of devaluing software at least the extreme [TS]

00:54:00   ones really getting you know an inordinate amount of software for a [TS]

00:54:04   seemingly absurd low price and then a bundle wanted to sponsor them fireball [TS]

00:54:10   and I don't know I was very active member which bundle it was but I was [TS]

00:54:17   very conflicted because I felt like on the one hand I've just written against [TS]

00:54:21   them but on the other hand you know it's a good deal it is what it is you know [TS]

00:54:26   and nobody you know it's not like the bundles were putting these absent the [TS]

00:54:29   bundles without their permission was you know i think im wind up going with it I [TS]

00:54:37   did it I took it because I thought you know it's in some sense you you have to [TS]

00:54:46   be the publisher you know every publication there never really was a [TS]

00:54:50   wall between editorial and advertising even a big organization it might have [TS]

00:54:55   seemed like a wall in the trenches yes but eventually you work up the check the [TS]

00:55:01   chain and there's a person whose responsibility and are typically their [TS]

00:55:05   title was like publisher certainly newspaper industry that was the title is [TS]

00:55:09   somebody who is concerned with both things for me I mean that's what I was [TS]

00:55:14   said about my job is that i sat on that i sat on the top of the wall and as I [TS]

00:55:17   got to shield my people from the stuff that was happening on the other side of [TS]

00:55:20   the world's best I could but my boss was the president of the company and the [TS]

00:55:24   head of city was either the head of sales themselves or the head of sales [TS]

00:55:28   reported to them and at that level you know they were always conversations now [TS]

00:55:34   again my job was to kind of steer them in the right direction and protect my [TS]

00:55:37   people from it but you know ultimately yes if you have if you have a business [TS]

00:55:44   the business people are going to have demands that they're going to want to [TS]

00:55:47   make and then it becomes part of the game to negotiate and get things back in [TS]

00:55:52   a in a place that everybody can live with that is not you know for the [TS]

00:55:56   editorial side that is it was always part of my job at the top is harder you [TS]

00:56:01   know what you're saying it's like now it's all exposed this is it's this guy [TS]

00:56:04   here the guy you gotta you gotta do it you gotta you gotta make that decision [TS]

00:56:09   right but overall you know in seven years ish 78 years of selling weekly [TS]

00:56:18   sponsorships there have been very few times where it's come up i mean NNN [TS]

00:56:22   never even been very few times that I've had to reject a sponsor seems like they [TS]

00:56:27   know I'm hoping I'm hoping that actually is a part of this it's partly me and [TS]

00:56:34   it's also partly just in the environment that it's it's [TS]

00:56:38   I'm hoping it doesn't happen this was one out of like 16 [TS]

00:56:42   don't even know what twelve weeks 10 to 14 weeks something like that [TS]

00:56:46   well and like I said you I really do think that antivirus and cleaning [TS]

00:56:50   utilities are sort of especially in and I said darker side is the antivirus are [TS]

00:56:55   exception that there are can't think of any other topic you know it's sort of [TS]

00:57:01   advertiser that in that area well I could say I could see him again I don't [TS]

00:57:05   think I would come down on the side of not running out for them but you know [TS]

00:57:08   there are a lot of a lot of memes that go through our our community and our [TS]

00:57:12   audiences as they enter all interconnected right i the thing with [TS]

00:57:16   six colors when I see you post a link and I'm like well I could post a link to [TS]

00:57:19   that but everybody's reading John sites or do I even need to bother actually [TS]

00:57:22   just like to join LinkedIn page [TS]

00:57:23   think about it you know we are all kind of in the same ecosystem together and [TS]

00:57:29   there are some of the means that come out like there's the whole you know if [TS]

00:57:31   you're not paying for the product and then you're the you're what they're [TS]

00:57:34   selling and I could see something like that coming up where there's some [TS]

00:57:38   products that is going to sponsor you and what they're really wanting [TS]

00:57:41   obviously it's free and isn't it great and i could see people being like hey [TS]

00:57:45   that's you know that's no good there's this other developers trying to sell it [TS]

00:57:49   these guys are doing it free and they're just gonna get our information and all [TS]

00:57:51   that I could see scenario like that although it doesn't seem to have come up [TS]

00:57:55   up to now but I could I could see something like that that would be [TS]

00:57:57   unpopular with part of the community because it seems to be the kind of thing [TS]

00:58:04   that we all rail against like what you were saying about the app bundle but I [TS]

00:58:09   think it's encouraging that you haven't seen a lot of [TS]

00:58:11   that and it's and it's good but i i think it's worth you know this is so [TS]

00:58:15   inside baseball but I think it's worth people hearing that it's not like we [TS]

00:58:18   don't think about these issues and take them seriously and honestly I think [TS]

00:58:21   that's one of the downsides of the big organizations with the separation of [TS]

00:58:25   church and state is there's a clear message and I think people even get [TS]

00:58:28   trained to expected from everybody [TS]

00:58:30   which is you know we don't care like the editors of the ones you talk to have no [TS]

00:58:36   power [TS]

00:58:36   you never hear you never talk to the salespeople the organization doesn't [TS]

00:58:39   really care less if they were serious black eye for the organization and so [TS]

00:58:44   you know why even bother they're just gonna be crazy stuff against advertised [TS]

00:58:48   and with us you know we do take it seriously and that's no that's not true [TS]

00:58:51   that's not how we wanted to be i mean there's also reason that our sites don't [TS]

00:58:54   have junk all over them because that's crappy but some big organizations have [TS]

00:59:00   no problem [TS]

00:59:01   littering their sites with with junk Jay Rosen whose teaches journalism at NYU [TS]

00:59:07   and you know big presence in sort of the whole inside baseball world of online [TS]

00:59:15   journalism but I think he said I want to put words in his mouth but something to [TS]

00:59:19   the effect of if you work at a publication doesn't matter whether it's [TS]

00:59:23   print or online or both or whether it's new or old but if it's big enough you [TS]

00:59:29   know that it's not just like a one person but it's big and you can you can [TS]

00:59:32   be isolated and just concentrate on editorial if you don't understand the [TS]

00:59:37   business model of the publication years [TS]

00:59:41   screwed you're not you're not being responsible and you're probably screwed [TS]

00:59:45   it all the way he freezes you should quit your job which is probably a little [TS]

00:59:48   extreme but she's not wrong that you should you should understand why your [TS]

00:59:54   company does what it does and what decisions they're making and whether [TS]

00:59:57   they're good or not and you know i over the years I have been fortunate to work [TS]

01:00:03   with a bunch of incredibly talented people but what I will say is I was [TS]

01:00:08   always surprised at how some incredibly intelligent talented people [TS]

01:00:14   would have no conception about how parts of our business worked even though some [TS]

01:00:21   of that was communicated fairly clearly and some of that has to do with frame of [TS]

01:00:25   reference and some of that has to do with not wanting to hear it does if [TS]

01:00:28   you're trained as a journalist and you hear from the sales guys in the business [TS]

01:00:31   people it's very easy to put that in the box is like that's not my concern in [TS]

01:00:35   fact it's my duty tonight even pay attention to that the lowest surprise me [TS]

01:00:38   that I would hear even up to the end and one of the things rosen points out to is [TS]

01:00:43   that you need to know the difference between what product people refer to as [TS]

01:00:45   product and what editorial people refer to as product which is super important [TS]

01:00:49   because the media today so much of what happens at these sites is based on the [TS]

01:00:53   product roadmap and product managers and developers and you know the product is [TS]

01:00:57   not just the words on the website the product is the features of the website [TS]

01:01:00   in the design of the website and and and tools that editors can use to build [TS]

01:01:04   things on the web site and if you're thinking of the product is being what [TS]

01:01:08   you write or as product is being some weird amorphous sales thing you are you [TS]

01:01:14   have a really distorted view of what your businesses and that's probably not [TS]

01:01:17   but probably not a healthy place to be and I would have that where I would have [TS]

01:01:22   people talking about a charter or developers or marketing people people [TS]

01:01:29   not in ad sales and the end people who'd been at the company for a long time [TS]

01:01:34   would say oh well those are you know their sales people say no they're not [TS]

01:01:38   sales people there there are other parts of the business that our editorial but [TS]

01:01:42   they're not salespeople and you know that I understand why people would [TS]

01:01:46   cultivate a simplified you in the sense of like I just don't wanna hear it I [TS]

01:01:50   don't want to know about it but in reality I think it is a good thing to [TS]

01:01:54   know about that stuff and understand it and understand your place in it and then [TS]

01:01:57   if it doesn't make you comfortable it certainly makes you a better judge of [TS]

01:02:00   whether the decisions or businesses making our solid or are bad or desperate [TS]

01:02:05   and if you are in any position to determine what kind of stuff is going to [TS]

01:02:10   go in the product right then knowing where your business going to actually [TS]

01:02:15   help you can actually get some good ideas or helps have a bigger voice in [TS]

01:02:19   deciding what [TS]

01:02:20   what gets built next so I i dont have peace while a little bit I P and saying [TS]

01:02:27   you should quit your job as a little bit rich he's not wrong about a lot of those [TS]

01:02:31   points that you really should understand the business the European yeah I think [TS]

01:02:35   he he has a sort of battered to overstated and understated style yeah [TS]

01:02:42   without without going into sensation trying to communicate some of the stuff [TS]

01:02:49   I mean like I said some of this europe you're trying to battle against Lowell I [TS]

01:02:53   don't wanna hear it it's not my job it's in the business side I'm an editor I [TS]

01:02:56   need to hear it you kind of do need to shout sometimes I know pay attention to [TS]

01:03:01   this especially something like the difference between what you know [TS]

01:03:04   product I mean that that's come up in a bunch of cases where people have angrily [TS]

01:03:08   left various websites startups who are editorial people like oh they're just [TS]

01:03:12   there just in it for the product and it's like i dealt with the end Aaron and [TS]

01:03:16   I G I worked with a really great product manager and he and I spent a lot of time [TS]

01:03:20   talking about ways we could improve the product unfortunately most of those [TS]

01:03:23   things never got prioritized but that was a great experience because we were [TS]

01:03:28   working together [TS]

01:03:29   editorial and product management to identify things that would make the [TS]

01:03:34   website better and and and sometimes it's better to refer to it that way than [TS]

01:03:37   to say the product because that sounds a little bit like you're selling something [TS]

01:03:41   but the fact is you know my editors were frustrated by the fact that all they [TS]

01:03:45   could really do is put texts in the CMS and why can't we do this and why can't [TS]

01:03:49   we do that and the answer was what we could do that if we worked with the [TS]

01:03:52   product group but you gotta speak their language and that is a challenge so I i [TS]

01:03:56   appreciate when we're sort of waves his hand like hey pay attention this is [TS]

01:04:00   really important because a lot of people in journalism don't want to hear that [TS]

01:04:05   they want to just work and it's a natural response right now I'm just [TS]

01:04:09   gonna do my thing that I'm comfortable with but I think it leads to bad bad [TS]

01:04:13   places I think it's it's a dangerous dangerous to use the word religion but I [TS]

01:04:18   do feel like casual way it [TS]

01:04:24   the belief that if you're a journalist that you should almost like obligated [TS]

01:04:31   and a moral sense to not pay attention to the business side was ingrained in at [TS]

01:04:37   least a generation maybe several generations especially at a ton of its [TS]

01:04:41   especially us' centric or not but it certainly seems owned the newspaper [TS]

01:04:45   industry that it was just almost almost religious that it was you know and and [TS]

01:04:52   it was only sustainable because newspapers worst said they had a [TS]

01:04:56   monopoly they were incredibly profits a license to print money I remember when I [TS]

01:05:01   was at the enquirer there was a time where they had in this is an elite [TS]

01:05:06   nineties where they had buyouts because they had a quarter where their profit [TS]

01:05:12   margin was 19% they were at the inquiry was a knight-ridder paper and they were [TS]

01:05:20   so they 20% less like this [TS]

01:05:23   red line in the sand you know a line in the sand and you know they did they [TS]

01:05:30   dipped to nineteen and a relay instantly went into red alert sirens went off and [TS]

01:05:36   they like but people out and it was crazy like this [TS]

01:05:41   an East Coast thing called Metro its free daily newspaper I don't know if [TS]

01:05:47   they're still around here in Philly but it was they they were a FREE daily and [TS]

01:05:52   they set up most of the kiosks commuter entrances subway entrances bus stops not [TS]

01:06:00   real thick but you know you know it was definitely a competitor to you know the [TS]

01:06:06   enquirer in the daily news and you know because if you could read the Metro for [TS]

01:06:10   free and finna no finish it before you got where you're going you had no reason [TS]

01:06:14   to buy the Inquirer Daily News [TS]

01:06:16   and it led to a crazy scenarios like the guy who is in charge I i as do graphic [TS]

01:06:23   design work I did I worked with a lot of the classified advertising people and [TS]

01:06:28   did a lot of the promotional stuff that they needed to sell to give to people [TS]

01:06:32   like the guy was a great guy forget his name but he was in charge of auto [TS]

01:06:37   advertising classified advertising which is huge huge huge business took the [TS]

01:06:43   buyout which was like two or three years salary and a week later he took the job [TS]

01:06:48   is the automotive a guy at Metro at the Metro like and it was like they just [TS]

01:06:54   paid him three years salary to go and start selling ads at a rival while they [TS]

01:07:02   were still incredibly profitable I mean I've definitely experienced the layoffs [TS]

01:07:07   while we're profitable where the where the business people alike know we're [TS]

01:07:10   profitable we're gonna make a profit or profitable and then they lay off 10 [TS]

01:07:13   people and there is nothing worse than saying you can't work here anymore [TS]

01:07:16   because we're not quite making enough profit and that's a disconnected [TS]

01:07:21   business i mean they're their businesses that are all about looking for growth [TS]

01:07:24   and investment and their businesses that are just trying to be sustainable [TS]

01:07:27   profitable businesses that can employ a bunch of people and and that too is part [TS]

01:07:33   of the disconnect of like not understanding what kind of business you [TS]

01:07:35   work for and what their metrics are not on a very detailed level of like what's [TS]

01:07:39   the bonus that structure for the sales people but to understand like what are [TS]

01:07:43   they looking for and you know what what are they what do they expect from us and [TS]

01:07:48   what's the growth in some some of that is has to come from the top and you know [TS]

01:07:53   in my years I would get a very varying degree of that depending on who the CEO [TS]

01:07:56   was of you know what we show the employees and do a varying degree the [TS]

01:08:01   employees wanted to or didn't want to hear it but I think it's just a [TS]

01:08:05   dangerous situation to be into not understand what kind of company you're [TS]

01:08:09   working for and what they're what their goals are any knight-ridder at least it [TS]

01:08:12   was clear that 20% was the line and if you weren't showing 20 percent profit [TS]

01:08:16   margin that was that was red alert time boys and I think I think the danger [TS]

01:08:22   there is that it seems very clear like because I wasn't involved I wasn't gonna [TS]

01:08:27   be my career is tied it wasn't there [TS]

01:08:28   even full time I was always like a contractor but I loved the business and [TS]

01:08:33   you know I loved it but my view from Mike the ground floor and just looking [TS]

01:08:37   at the whole thing was that it was so clear to me once I got in and sort of [TS]

01:08:41   got the gist of how will it require around at the time that the people who [TS]

01:08:47   are it in that building working on a newspaper where incredible people I [TS]

01:08:52   absolutely amazing people I forget the exact years but there is a stretch from [TS]

01:08:58   Mike the mid-eighties to mid nineties were the philadelphia inquirer one more [TS]

01:09:03   Pulitzer Prizes than any newspaper in the us- it was a tremendous tremendously [TS]

01:09:09   and eventually all these this great talented and wound up working at the New [TS]

01:09:13   York Times and The Washington Post Newsweek and Time they dealt to my house [TS]

01:09:17   and went to these other places but at the time it was amazing and they you [TS]

01:09:21   know we're dedicated to the craft and dedicated to the civic duty of a [TS]

01:09:26   newspaper in a big metropolitan city and all this stuff but it was so clear that [TS]

01:09:30   knight-ridder was intended as a corporate of corporate parent didn't [TS]

01:09:34   give two shits if they were selling widgets or newspapers or whatever as [TS]

01:09:41   long as they hit that 20 percent profit growth didn't matter what they were [TS]

01:09:44   doing had no no no no lover interest in what it meant actually be making a [TS]

01:09:50   newspaper and and you know like we were saying when you're when you get the [TS]

01:09:54   license print money you can it's a little bit easier to be blissfully [TS]

01:09:57   ignorant but I i you know I think again somebody could listen to this podcast [TS]

01:10:01   and say aha [TS]

01:10:03   here they are they're all admitting that that journalism is not truly objective [TS]

01:10:07   it's actually affected by what the business does well you know the truth is [TS]

01:10:11   of course it is unless you are consumer reports or something and even then you [TS]

01:10:16   have the objective of getting donations and if you don't get them you can't stay [TS]

01:10:20   in business there is always a fundamental precept of the media [TS]

01:10:24   business about what they're doing and and what the why they're doing it in [TS]

01:10:29   like a sports writer at The Philadelphia Inquirer who is from san francisco can't [TS]

01:10:34   say you know I'm sudden I'm gonna read about the Giants right it's like no no [TS]

01:10:38   we're in the business of covering Philadelphia and I got that when I went [TS]

01:10:41   to me [TS]

01:10:42   user they told me like Apple's big in education but we're not targeting [TS]

01:10:45   education and like that was that was the target market our target market market [TS]

01:10:49   wasn't the Mac and it was it was the business market primarily and then [TS]

01:10:54   secondarily you know other users using it at home but not education why was [TS]

01:10:58   that because they didn't spend a lot of money and those advertisers to advertise [TS]

01:11:02   in want to reach them because of that and yeah that was that was focusing what [TS]

01:11:07   we could write about but you know that's just a fundamental business constraint [TS]

01:11:10   what you know the subjectivity comes on like on the inside of those constraints [TS]

01:11:14   like this is what this publication is this what this website years whatever it [TS]

01:11:18   is and then within their I need to be free to make the decisions about the [TS]

01:11:21   best way to serve that audience but how do you choose the audience in large part [TS]

01:11:25   in most of these businesses is your choosing an audience you can make money [TS]

01:11:29   selling at stew and that's okay but that is a fundamental thing that I mean [TS]

01:11:34   journalistic freedom only go so far there is a fundamental precept of your [TS]

01:11:39   business that you do need to follow as much as that guy might like to read [TS]

01:11:42   about if not the Giants might read about darts or Canadian football or whatever [TS]

01:11:47   it's like that's not what you're here to do that's not who we serve with with the [TS]

01:11:51   Philadelphia Inquirer yeah and you have to be able to you know even even in our [TS]

01:11:58   lean mean you know one person type operations like six colors are down [TS]

01:12:02   fireball is to have to be able to you know do it in a way that makes sense [TS]

01:12:07   financially and and the thing that makes me think about that so in a whole it you [TS]

01:12:11   know ten fifteen years you could very very feasible to just run a weblog out [TS]

01:12:17   of your pocket you know I think I could I forget what I pay per month for doing [TS]

01:12:22   really wanted to go for it if I just wanted to do it without any sponsorships [TS]

01:12:26   are ads or any revenue at all even with the readership I have a think it would [TS]

01:12:30   be like $100 a month maybe maybe I could probably find a way you could certainly [TS]

01:12:35   do it for 50 I'm paying 50 and I'm running club herbal in six colors on the [TS]

01:12:39   saves same server for $50 a month that's not a problem [TS]

01:12:43   yeah but the reason that Pakistan has exploding has exploded recently is that [TS]

01:12:47   until recently it was financially unfeasible there is no way [TS]

01:12:51   way it doesn't seem like that long ago when I started during fireball but it is [TS]

01:12:55   just no way financially that in 2002 2003 2004 that I could distribute 100 [TS]

01:13:01   200 megabyte mp3 files to thousands of people what is it would have cost [TS]

01:13:07   thousands and thousands of dollars and even a couple years ago I think that [TS]

01:13:10   would be the case [TS]

01:13:11   know it's it it that the rise and podcasting correlates exactly two when [TS]

01:13:17   it became financially pretty cheap yes through order lipson or Squarespace or [TS]

01:13:24   or through a hosting company that gives you a terabyte of data for $50 a month [TS]

01:13:29   that sort of thing right but until recently there was there was no such [TS]

01:13:33   thing [TS]

01:13:33   the bandwidth limits where you know in the low gigabytes or even the high you [TS]

01:13:40   know hundreds of megabytes and so if your files are you know typical podcast [TS]

01:13:45   for the show's somewhere around 200 megabytes but sometimes a little ass [TS]

01:13:48   sometimes a little more depending on how long it is but you know every hundred [TS]

01:13:53   people at 210 people adds up soon as a pre-release as I didn't I did the math [TS]

01:14:00   when we were pulling me uncomfortable off of five by five and I was trying to [TS]

01:14:04   figure out whether we would post that on our own server whether we wanted to use [TS]

01:14:07   a CD and for it and and I did the math and I was like wow that's a lot of data [TS]

01:14:11   just on a regular episode of a moderately popular podcast it's a it's a [TS]

01:14:15   just in five years ago terms an impossible amount of data and tossed [TS]

01:14:21   aside it wasn't even something people would tolerate you know when they were [TS]

01:14:25   connecting with very slow connections they might think I'd like to listen to [TS]

01:14:29   that but Jesus it's going to take on a $2 yeah I remember those days of like [TS]

01:14:33   you know leave them leave the mask on downloading podcasts and iTunes can take [TS]

01:14:37   forever right but you really need to understand stuff like that you know you [TS]

01:14:41   need to know that if you gonna do video you're probably gonna have to hosted [TS]

01:14:44   YouTube or something like that just because that way you don't have to pay [TS]

01:14:47   the bill can you better know what the terms are your YouTube then and you know [TS]

01:14:51   you gonna [TS]

01:14:52   use YouTube's ads and what percentage do you get is that gonna you know how many [TS]

01:14:56   people do you need to get is doing YouTube video for you to be able to make [TS]

01:14:59   a living doing math right yeah you know it's not too complicated but you've got [TS]

01:15:04   to there's there's all these abstractions r you can't pretend that [TS]

01:15:08   these things don't exist to worry about them that it doesn't work like that let [TS]

01:15:13   me take a break good time to take a break and thank another longtime friend [TS]

01:15:17   of the show our good friends at Squarespace you guys from Squarespace [TS]

01:15:22   where space is the all-in-one website building hosting / design tool you go to [TS]

01:15:29   Squarespace you sign up for an account and you can create your own website what [TS]

01:15:34   type of website something like a blog post the podcast Squarespace [TS]

01:15:38   handle the audio to another cost effective way yes absolutely you could [TS]

01:15:43   do a blog you can do a podcast at Squarespace but what if you have a [TS]

01:15:47   totally different idea in mind something that's more like an online store to sell [TS]

01:15:50   stuff well guess what Squarespace can do that [TS]

01:15:54   portfolio maybe you're a designer or photographer something like that you [TS]

01:15:57   want to create an online portfolio of your work space can do that just about [TS]

01:16:02   any kind of thing you could need to build a website for Squarespace has [TS]

01:16:08   those sort of components right there ready for you to drag and drop into your [TS]

01:16:14   own custom design they have templates to choose from to start with beautiful [TS]

01:16:18   templates and that they scale right from your phone tablet to 27 inch 5 k red [TS]

01:16:25   iMac and they have the brand new Squarespace 7 this is the latest version [TS]

01:16:32   of Squarespace totally redesigned everything is right there you don't have [TS]

01:16:39   to if you're logged into your account instead of a separate editing mode when [TS]

01:16:44   you want to change stuff you just do it right there [TS]

01:16:47   it is sort of the original vision for hypertext where that big complaint [TS]

01:16:52   against the the world wide web when it came out in 1993 1994 was that editing [TS]

01:16:58   was something you did in a text editor thrifty P and yeah you know it's him out [TS]

01:17:03   and browsing with something you didn the browser [TS]

01:17:06   why can't you read it right there in the browser well that's what Squarespace [TS]

01:17:09   seven days you just look at what you're looking at it was awake and you drive [TS]

01:17:13   what you want to drag you take out you wanna take out would you want to add [TS]

01:17:16   right there in place they've added integration with Google Apps they have a [TS]

01:17:21   new partnership with Getty Images so if you want to get stock photography stock [TS]

01:17:26   imagery you could do it right there through the Squarespace partnership with [TS]

01:17:31   Getty Images 15 of their templates are all brand new specifically for [TS]

01:17:37   Squarespace seven and all of them are super beautiful [TS]

01:17:41   the other thing you get with Squarespace definitely worth mentioning every time [TS]

01:17:45   they sponsor the show is award-winning 24 hours seven days a week [TS]

01:17:51   tech support be a live chat and email they have teams tech support teams all [TS]

01:17:56   around the globe which is how they keep going twenty four seven so the matter [TS]

01:18:00   what time you're working on it whether you're working late at night [TS]

01:18:03   middle of the night early in the morning Squarespace has tech support ready to [TS]

01:18:07   help answer any of your questions so where do you go to get started [TS]

01:18:13   go to Squarespace dot com slash the talk show and you can start a trial with no [TS]

01:18:19   credit card required and start building your website today [TS]

01:18:23   using offer code Jay G and you'll get 10% off your first purchase so the URL [TS]

01:18:31   is myspace.com / the talk show the offer code which you use later on [TS]

01:18:37   go sign up through that URL than a month later when you're free trials up uses [TS]

01:18:41   code Gigi and you'll get 10% off your first purchase and support the show so [TS]

01:18:48   my thanks to Squarespace so what else is going on I don't know anything about [TS]

01:18:54   this time years it's pretty quiet and talking about going out on my own I used [TS]

01:19:00   to have like a whole staff would come up with ideas at like stuff you could write [TS]

01:19:03   that you could put in a system and just sort of have a play out over the last [TS]

01:19:08   two weeks of the year when nothing was going on and doing this myself I should [TS]

01:19:12   probably put something there's nothing going on but it's difficult cuz there's [TS]

01:19:17   really you know there's nothing going on so you end up writing lots of hey let's [TS]

01:19:21   look back at 2014 and what did we learn and what are my favorite things and I [TS]

01:19:26   don't know it's a tough it's a tough time here because there isn't a lot of [TS]

01:19:30   tech stuff going on I've used in the past this year just been busy with [TS]

01:19:34   suspender crazy busy holiday thing with family and friends and stuff a lot of [TS]

01:19:38   times I use this period to write something that might take a long time [TS]

01:19:45   and therefore it you know they have a big thought peace on you know where I [TS]

01:19:50   what we know about the walk that Apple watching out two or three months later I [TS]

01:19:56   wish I had more time for him maybe this coming week [TS]

01:19:58   idea but something like that where it's not as nothing to do with what's new or [TS]

01:20:03   news but just take advantage of the fact that there isn't any news to really [TS]

01:20:08   focus on in and write it something like that right [TS]

01:20:11   yeah I [TS]

01:20:12   that's one of the things that I've been grappling with it and doing the site is [TS]

01:20:15   is how do you balance writing you know being a one-person operation right if [TS]

01:20:21   you're busy writing a deep think piece about something that's going to go on [TS]

01:20:24   for a thousand words you're not writing things to put on the site today and I [TS]

01:20:28   feel I feel like with a less established I like mine I definitely feel pressure [TS]

01:20:32   to keep the lights on every day and try to balance those things and you know you [TS]

01:20:37   you have a different pace you you can post some links and then you put out a [TS]

01:20:42   bigger piece every so often and I I like your pace but I don't feel like I am I [TS]

01:20:47   can do that right now I feel like I need to keep the keep the heart beat a little [TS]

01:20:50   stronger because I'm trying to establish myself and and pick up and pick up an [TS]

01:20:56   audience that I may not have you know have captured yet but then I end up in a [TS]

01:21:00   situation where it's like wow it's gonna take me three days to write a review of [TS]

01:21:03   the red iMac was an example where it took me like two or three days to write [TS]

01:21:07   that and one of my challenges was always should I keep reading this now or should [TS]

01:21:13   I stop and find something short to write and post to the site just to let people [TS]

01:21:17   know I'm still alive while I'm also writing this longer piece trying to find [TS]

01:21:21   a balances is is tricky as one of the again not being on a team anymore and [TS]

01:21:26   being just myself I i've learned the powerful lesson of how little one person [TS]

01:21:31   is capable of producing versus a staff then every once in a while though I [TS]

01:21:36   surprised myself and I'm like holy crap I got a lot done a lot published in the [TS]

01:21:41   last 24 hours like not just like stuff that I've been working on for a long [TS]

01:21:44   time it happened to finish just be like wow I got like eight links and a full [TS]

01:21:50   article I can I do this every day well I think I think part of it is is energy [TS]

01:21:55   and part of it is that that stuff doesn't always happen like that right i [TS]

01:21:59   mean there are days I I know exactly what you're talking about maybe I didn't [TS]

01:22:02   recognize me as much before as I do now but there are those days with my god [TS]

01:22:06   there's like five great links and there's like three articles I could [TS]

01:22:10   write about things that happened today and those are wonderful days and and [TS]

01:22:13   maybe a couple of those articles to later in the week can you just keep on [TS]

01:22:17   writing about it and then other times when it when it's just like wow what is [TS]

01:22:21   happening nothing is happening and and you know CES is gonna happen next week I [TS]

01:22:26   think it's always something interesting to read about their even if it's sort of [TS]

01:22:31   the anti CAS I'm very happy to not be going to CES this year but you know [TS]

01:22:37   things with the news cycle will will spend up again but you're right it is [TS]

01:22:41   kinda nice to have that ability to spend time with family or reflect a little bit [TS]

01:22:46   or work on a longer-term project and you know I've been thinking about that too [TS]

01:22:49   but with travel it becomes a lot harder to to find the time to do that stuff [TS]

01:22:55   when you're when you're traveling with family and all that [TS]

01:22:59   do you have the I know I don't know if you've ever and I happen to know that [TS]

01:23:04   six colors is running on movable type yes [TS]

01:23:08   post about that at some point just like gonna come out of the closet and yes I [TS]

01:23:13   get my it might be the last the last news major site to launch its paws I [TS]

01:23:19   heard from the people who were doing the current version of movable type cuz I'm [TS]

01:23:22   using movable-type for which i think people you're using yes yes I don't last [TS]

01:23:27   a mean joke would be of alaska this five was not so good I heard from the people [TS]

01:23:33   who are the current support license people for movable type in there like [TS]

01:23:36   you know that we want to talk maybe we can get your license if we can use you [TS]

01:23:40   as an example and one on one level that's interesting but then I also was [TS]

01:23:44   kinda thinking I'm not sure they they added anything that I would actually [TS]

01:23:47   want and I'm fortunate to have my friend Greg nice is like survived with pearl 41 [TS]

01:23:54   and movable type 42 and so on in a way I've got an off the shelf you know CMS [TS]

01:23:59   from five years ago or eight years ago and the guy who can customize it to do [TS]

01:24:03   whatever and so that's pretty good and I threw out all their templates I didn't [TS]

01:24:06   use any other templates one adult the site templates it's all original [TS]

01:24:09   templates but you know sometimes it's just go with what you know and all the [TS]

01:24:14   movable type is old and weird I also know it like I i i couldnt WordPress but [TS]

01:24:21   I actually don't know WordPress I would have to learn a lot about WordPress or [TS]

01:24:25   Squarespace or anything that I was doing in and I thought I've already got the [TS]

01:24:28   server here it's already raining movable type for some other projects [TS]

01:24:31   why not [TS]

01:24:32   just do that I I can do that without learning anything about the CMS and I [TS]

01:24:36   can just focus on the content and getting the templates live and when I [TS]

01:24:39   was launching a site in the week that seems like a good idea so you know it's [TS]

01:24:43   you do you have I am IMT pluggin that led to give you like posting interface [TS]

01:24:50   from the iPhone I don't think I do see that to me is the game-changer and I [TS]

01:24:56   don't know and I know that we're press has like a pretty good maybe even better [TS]

01:25:01   iPhone optimized interface and then I forget who else would I am to you I know [TS]

01:25:08   Brad choke dat who is a longtime six-part employee wrote the plug in a [TS]

01:25:15   region it goes back to my 2008 I mean it came out and maybe even 2007 it came out [TS]

01:25:20   very early it you know it doesn't give you all of movable type it only gives [TS]

01:25:25   you just pick a blog either picking you make a new entry or edit an existing [TS]

01:25:31   entry and then when you open an entry just you know here Tuesday fealty shot [TS]

01:25:37   so I had my little bit just to make it a little bit more specific to how I use [TS]

01:25:41   the fields but that's what I did with Greg wrote a plugin that does audio [TS]

01:25:48   processing because [TS]

01:25:50   podcast Movable Type is problematic because movable type doesn't know like [TS]

01:25:54   what the white counties and you're supposed to put that in the RSS feed the [TS]

01:25:57   length of the byte count of the file you're linking to and so he just read a [TS]

01:26:00   plugin for me that there does that and that means I can keep using it is a [TS]

01:26:05   little bit like you know when I D person saying I know that there have been five [TS]

01:26:09   versions of Adobe Photoshop that have come out but we're just gonna stay on [TS]

01:26:13   diversion 3 because it works for us and we were ok it's a little like that being [TS]

01:26:19   on this old CMS but it works fine and if the point that it doesn't work fine it's [TS]

01:26:23   got a perfectly reasonable database format and I could migrate it somewhere [TS]

01:26:26   else but you know what I said knowing somebody who can write a movable type [TS]

01:26:30   plug in [TS]

01:26:32   in in a few hours to solve a problem helps a lot I could do anything with six [TS]

01:26:38   colors though it's so simple in Kabul as much crazier it's a movable type but [TS]

01:26:41   it's got like multiple blogs and they're all related to each other so it's like [TS]

01:26:44   the incomparable is no longer one thing right right cuz its metal podcast so [TS]

01:26:50   we've got we've gotta podcasts blogs and episodes blog and they they [TS]

01:26:54   inter-related that's how you can generate multiple podcast feeds and a [TS]

01:26:59   master list in a master feed and all of that is actually a bunch of movable type [TS]

01:27:03   things that's a totally crazy thing but it works and and we built it because [TS]

01:27:09   there's just things that that damn Benjamin CMS didn't offer and they were [TS]

01:27:14   not things dan we should ever have built because his other shows would never use [TS]

01:27:19   them but i wanna index so that people can find out that we talked about [TS]

01:27:23   Raiders of the Lost Ark in like episode 8 or something and they can go to a page [TS]

01:27:27   and scroll down to Raiders of the Lost Ark and there's a link to the podcast [TS]

01:27:31   where we talked about it in the end campsite was never gonna do that and [TS]

01:27:35   that's not his fault it's just didn't make sense for him but I wanted this [TS]

01:27:38   features so we built this crazy thing and movable type and you know it's it's [TS]

01:27:42   it's crazy but it works pretty well and once I had that up and running it was [TS]

01:27:47   really easy to just add the six colors blog on on two movable type 2 because I [TS]

01:27:53   was already wrangling it and Greg are ready so we decided to do that too nice [TS]

01:27:57   a mobile type is you know it's template language is fairly simple but it's [TS]

01:28:00   pretty robust and and it's it's rendering seven pages which means you're [TS]

01:28:06   not gonna get fireballs I still well everybody renders static pages it's just [TS]

01:28:12   a question of whether they're rendering them immediately or whether they're [TS]

01:28:16   calling cashing [TS]

01:28:18   that's true that's when caching with with WordPress has gotten a lot better [TS]

01:28:21   which is which is good and I've used WordPress its I'm not comfortable with [TS]

01:28:25   it it's interesting to see [TS]

01:28:29   stuff like this is is is in some cases as a nerd litmus test a little bit right [TS]

01:28:33   it's like oh what blog platform to use and there's somebody movable type is not [TS]

01:28:37   cool it's old and weird but right tool for the job you know right tool for the [TS]

01:28:42   job and and and I'm a big believer in that that I shouldn't have to spend a [TS]

01:28:47   week hitting up to speed on a platform that's gonna let me do exactly what i [TS]

01:28:50   was gonna do on the thing that I already know and if I had to jump I would impact [TS]

01:28:55   when I'm thinking about doing like site registrations or something for the [TS]

01:28:59   website that that one option I have to do like a membership of voluntary [TS]

01:29:05   membership for six colors there's a move [TS]

01:29:07   there's a there's a wordpress plugin that does a good job with that i think [TS]

01:29:11   thats what Ben Thompson is using or if not he's customers I know told me and [TS]

01:29:19   you know if if if I want to I can set up a wordpress instance to and use that for [TS]

01:29:25   that and not for the rest of it and just have them interconnect and I can do that [TS]

01:29:29   too [TS]

01:29:30   it's not you know it's it's not necessarily bad [TS]

01:29:34   to to do stuff like that but it does make me feel that cool when I get an [TS]

01:29:37   email the other day from somebody was like I I see your this feature on your [TS]

01:29:41   blog and I would like to implement that I assume you use WordPress like idea how [TS]

01:29:45   did you do it [TS]

01:29:46   ok bad news not using WordPress yeah I've gotten over the years to the [TS]

01:29:52   combined post thing although we're definitely doing WordPress but you would [TS]

01:29:56   have to do it a different way [TS]

01:29:57   yeah and and again [TS]

01:29:57   yeah and and again [TS]

01:30:00   I don't know how you do it in WordPress but I know exactly how you doin movable [TS]

01:30:03   type so especially for just wanting to get it up soon [TS]

01:30:08   it made him a lot of sense to you to do that now i know i cant like Movable Type [TS]

01:30:12   it's funky and weird but an argument with somebody when they're talking about [TS]

01:30:16   what real real mark down haha I mean don't get me started to get you started [TS]

01:30:19   but I had a moment where I said you know I still consider markdown IPL the [TS]

01:30:24   definitive merger down and they vary I think they're being very smart they said [TS]

01:30:29   yeah but you don't actually you know how much of what you do actually gets [TS]

01:30:32   processed by Martin PL and I said all of it because either I run it in a script [TS]

01:30:38   in BBEdit output HTML a pace that in somewhere or I'm using movable-type [TS]

01:30:42   which is using the market and IPL on the fly to convert those to HTML so I'm you [TS]

01:30:47   know it has the advantage to even my the markdown dingus a daring fireball which [TS]

01:30:55   is extremely popular then I mean I thousands of the number of people who [TS]

01:31:01   use that webpage everyday is greater than I think the daily readership of [TS]

01:31:06   daring fireball when I went full time it's it's that popular it's just a [TS]

01:31:11   little PHP forum where you can enter some marked down hit a button and it [TS]

01:31:14   gives you the output beneath which you can then copy and paste elsewhere which [TS]

01:31:20   I originally wrote just for people I didn't think people would actually use [TS]

01:31:22   it as a tool to or I thought it was just like if you're learning this you for [TS]

01:31:27   reading about this you want to learn to type something here and then you can see [TS]

01:31:31   the output here and there's no better way to learn then you know you can see [TS]

01:31:35   that you put asterisks around the word and then in the output it puts em tags [TS]

01:31:40   around the word but people use it on a daily basis just like I want to convert [TS]

01:31:45   I I need to get some I need to have this in HTML quickly dashed out here hit the [TS]

01:31:49   button and copy and paste in have to really that's great but it's a little [TS]

01:31:53   formal written in PHP [TS]

01:31:54   but behind the scenes it still costs out to the perot voters and its sound when I [TS]

01:32:01   did that I thought well that's never gonna scale like if this page gets [TS]

01:32:05   popular it's got to be slow but it's not it's caused the whole thing is so stupid [TS]

01:32:09   simple that even if it's a PHP script [TS]

01:32:12   that calls out to the UNIX shell scripting a text file and then put them [TS]

01:32:16   put back in it all takes place in a fraction of a second you're waiting [TS]

01:32:20   longer for the network then you are for my server to do that no matter how far [TS]

01:32:27   we've come [TS]

01:32:27   yeah I remember when running a prescrip was actually like you know stop the [TS]

01:32:32   presses right it was like to rate this and see just Wright like a perl script [TS]

01:32:38   and it's like wow it'll take a second or two for Pearl to fire up but you know I [TS]

01:32:43   don't so much easier to do it I will take a break and is sponsored by a [TS]

01:32:49   circle back half an hour I have the research department the award-winning [TS]

01:32:55   research department here at the talk show has found the white paper that I [TS]

01:32:59   was talking about its by Wilfredo Sanchez I cannot believe I forgot [TS]

01:33:03   friends name because I've even had drinks with him at the BBC great guy [TS]

01:33:10   it's a used next two thousand presentations from the year 2000 the [TS]

01:33:17   challenges of integrating the UNIX and Mac OS environments and I will put it in [TS]

01:33:22   the show not guaranteed it is I swear it sounds very dry but it is a terrific [TS]

01:33:28   read if you have any technical interest in this sort of thing like well how do [TS]

01:33:33   you square the circle of having a classic Mac OS with colon separators and [TS]

01:33:38   Unix with / separators and other issues to like the fact that the UNIX [TS]

01:33:42   filesystem did not file a DS and the Mac had aliases Indonesia symlinks and Unix [TS]

01:33:48   didn't have a lease is indeed have some links and etcetera etcetera how did they [TS]

01:33:51   make it all work it is a wonderfully well you know it's typical just for [TS]

01:33:57   someone who would be a great engineering Apple it is it's written in [TS]

01:34:00   in very very clear language so I will put in the Schonert don't forget that's [TS]

01:34:06   right and in my ipod my apologies to anybody out there who's listening who [TS]

01:34:11   remembered that Freddy Sanchez wrote that paper and for the last 35 minutes [TS]

01:34:16   has been writing email while they listened to us continue when you get the [TS]

01:34:21   Twitter feed back that's like oh you can't answer is this just keep listening [TS]

01:34:25   we gotta so I apologies that I know where you are in the shower right now [TS]

01:34:32   your patience will be rewarded just keep on listening you had another talk about [TS]

01:34:39   the interview so anything that is something that was going on over over [TS]

01:34:46   Christmas right this whole thing where Sony Entertainment got hacked by [TS]

01:34:54   somebody many people including EUS government believe either by the North [TS]

01:34:59   Korean government or by a group sponsored by the North Korean government [TS]

01:35:02   perhaps in protest of this movie Seth Rogen James Franco or his or her sister [TS]

01:35:11   President Obama Colin James flaca [TS]

01:35:15   conflating in with the Ravens quarterback Joe is like a you know a [TS]

01:35:24   movie that is about comedy about them [TS]

01:35:27   assassinating North Korean leader Kim jong-il right there they're asked by the [TS]

01:35:34   CIA to to assassinate him and then they got hacked and all this embarrassing [TS]

01:35:42   stuff came out and they got threatened there were threats whether they were [TS]

01:35:48   real or imagined than any of the other was first come out on Christmas day I [TS]

01:35:51   guess in any there are threats that any theater that showed it was going to [TS]

01:35:54   perhaps suffer some kind of terrorist attack they said there would be another [TS]

01:35:58   911 add another 90 theaters near you [TS]

01:36:01   yeah right which doesn't seem like yeah you gonna fly how many airplanes into [TS]

01:36:08   the movie theaters but anyway [TS]

01:36:10   the editors decided I think I I think it was a mistake but I think they made a [TS]

01:36:17   simple economic decision which was well christmas is a huge time for movies and [TS]

01:36:22   period this movie in particular wasn't going to be a big hit anyway just screw [TS]

01:36:26   this movie and keep the theaters open and then you know next thing you know [TS]

01:36:30   Sony wanted to release it online and they did but iTunes was not among the [TS]

01:36:35   streaming outfits that had it on as re-record re-recording on the 29 29th it [TS]

01:36:46   hit iTunes yesterday the 28th I think that summarizes the situation yeah and [TS]

01:36:53   there was there was one weird story that I that suggested that Sony had called [TS]

01:36:58   the white house asking for help in getting out ball to put it on iTunes [TS]

01:37:04   which I I have not seen any corroboration of that but that was the [TS]

01:37:08   one that struck me is like that's weird that's a weird yet that was the new york [TS]

01:37:12   times and it was an off it was just like in the middle of the article and it was [TS]

01:37:16   just sort of off hand I mean I don't know if that's your call the switchboard [TS]

01:37:19   yes for any Q's number or is that like President Obama can you do a solid and [TS]

01:37:23   call Tim Cook I there's a spectrum of what might have happened there and it's [TS]

01:37:28   unclear from there sort of the implication that they wanted to be an [TS]

01:37:30   iTunes exclusive and and but Apple wasn't interested and then you know what [TS]

01:37:37   ended up happening is that it went up on Christmas Eve on Google Play and on [TS]

01:37:44   YouTube on YouTube for purchase or rental and Xbox through text box life [TS]

01:37:51   correct but not iTunes until until the 28th I guess you know I wrote today I [TS]

01:38:01   just before he started the show I gave it my headline of the Week award finally [TS]

01:38:06   G [TS]

01:38:08   PGR is headline was a poor and I want to get this wrong because it's so classic [TS]

01:38:14   BGR as headliners Apple finally decides to stand up to Sony hackers releases the [TS]

01:38:22   interview on iTunes man so I you know whether it's true and I i nobody I've [TS]

01:38:29   got nobody on the record but you know speaking to some people at Apple nobody [TS]

01:38:33   directly involved in iTunes but people who know people who are involved in [TS]

01:38:36   iTunes that the story I've heard and it makes sense for example if your [TS]

01:38:40   developer this is public knowledge iTunes Connect closes around like the [TS]

01:38:44   22nd or 23rd and it does and even say you go to the iTunes Connect site they [TS]

01:38:48   say iTunes Connect is closed until December 28 they close couple days [TS]

01:38:53   before Christmas and they don't open until a couple of days afterwards and [TS]

01:38:58   that's it [TS]

01:38:59   whatever you want if you're a developer if you want to get a bugfix and you've [TS]

01:39:03   got to get it in before they close and otherwise your gonna wait about a week [TS]

01:39:06   because they want to give people time off from my understanding I think that [TS]

01:39:11   what happened was apple juice and and the New York Times article kinda hinted [TS]

01:39:14   it not that Apple was interested but they weren't interested in doing it on [TS]

01:39:18   Sony's timetable that it was this was like the blackout period for iTunes and [TS]

01:39:25   it's not easy the stuff is non-trivial like to have all these movies streaming [TS]

01:39:30   around the world it takes a while for them to propagate around to see the end [TS]

01:39:35   the content delivery networks that Apple uses and again in theory if they wanted [TS]

01:39:42   to get it up on Christmas I'm sure they could've but I think they would have had [TS]

01:39:44   to call people back from vacation and you know make all sorts of exceptions [TS]

01:39:49   and I just think Apple's decision was this is not our problem and yeah we have [TS]

01:39:54   the movie if we get the movie three days from now so what ya I think we might [TS]

01:39:57   need a bigger thing I don't know why I look at the look at how the story had [TS]

01:40:02   gone and kind of thing that somebody at Apple probably should have said let's be [TS]

01:40:08   prepared to slide this thing up on Christmas Day [TS]

01:40:12   just because that may be how this goes any it was clear a while ago people were [TS]

01:40:16   talking about maybe they were just make it available video on demand and I know [TS]

01:40:21   that thats yeah that's probably telling an employee or to an Apple that they [TS]

01:40:26   need to they need to come to work or be on call to come to work over the holiday [TS]

01:40:29   and that sucks but at the same time you know although that headline is [TS]

01:40:34   ridiculous I do feel like there was a chance here for Apple to just kind of [TS]

01:40:39   the part of the story and instead the story was Apple doesn't have it that's [TS]

01:40:44   weird and I don't know I mean that they're in the business of working with [TS]

01:40:47   the studios to get the stuff I would you want to be seen as being on the [TS]

01:40:49   forefront of this and being flexible enough to get up and I kinda feel like [TS]

01:40:54   what was revealed is that Apple systems are a little bit rickety and and they [TS]

01:40:59   were they were running a skeleton crew and so they just couldn't get it up and [TS]

01:41:02   in time for the timing of it which is kind of weird although if you've used [TS]

01:41:06   iTunes Connect it's not unreasonable to think that that's a weird you know back [TS]

01:41:10   in system that regular people never have to see but it's not a big deal but it is [TS]

01:41:16   a little surprising that it should now be at the forefront of the stuff like [TS]

01:41:19   sure we can put that up the problem and yeah I do I do kind of feel that aside [TS]

01:41:23   and again who knows what the root actual capabilities and I don't know for sure [TS]

01:41:27   but I do think that it might be true that Apple's backend system for this [TS]

01:41:30   stuff is less nimble than you know in no surprise that Google may be a lot more [TS]

01:41:36   nimble in this regard yeah yeah that they can do something quicker they can [TS]

01:41:40   pull something put put it up quicker and have it propagation and stream around [TS]

01:41:46   the world quicker than Apple can wear the Apple AAPL still the company that [TS]

01:41:49   when they make changes to the store has tix tore down an hour to exactly exactly [TS]

01:41:55   I i think that's that's part of the story and they've gotten better but also [TS]

01:41:58   used to be that they would be like TV shows that would come out and it was [TS]

01:42:01   like supposed to be released on midnight after the after the show aired or [TS]

01:42:05   something like that and then on iTunes it would always be like sometime the [TS]

01:42:09   next day or maybe the day after and i never knew whether that meant that some [TS]

01:42:13   of the TV studio just didn't get the file to them in time or whether it was [TS]

01:42:16   like literally there's a lag in iTunes Connect for content and you know the [TS]

01:42:22   systems are shallower the approval of slow and that [TS]

01:42:24   gets gets delayed and they seem to be better at that now too but it's possible [TS]

01:42:29   I know it's also possible that Google and Microsoft and whoever else posted [TS]

01:42:33   this thing had no problem telling their staff to work on Christmas and maybe [TS]

01:42:39   they maybe they had that plan and Apple has this kind of corporate culture of [TS]

01:42:43   dismissing everybody for that period of time and you know maybe that's played [TS]

01:42:48   into this 2010 and not really anybody I mean it can't really be everybody [TS]

01:42:53   because you know on Christmas morning when everybody's launching new iPod iPad [TS]

01:42:59   somebody somebody's gotta be there there are always people on call so that that's [TS]

01:43:02   that's the part that just don't know maybe they just didn't think it was that [TS]

01:43:05   big a deal and that it was that they didn't need to be there it's just it's [TS]

01:43:09   funny in the end when the president is talking about it in his news conference [TS]

01:43:12   it's probably a big enough deal to pay attention to it I think if your Apple [TS]

01:43:15   just cannot be even if you're not going to be the only exclusive provider of it [TS]

01:43:19   to not be the one major player who's not providing a note saying they were afraid [TS]

01:43:24   or anything that is a lot of stupidity and in those statements but I'm just [TS]

01:43:27   saying for PR purposes alone don't you want to be not seen as being a step [TS]

01:43:31   behind Microsoft and Google Play yeah I totally agree with that and and though [TS]

01:43:38   the movie is a silly stupid comedy and not like a serious political statement [TS]

01:43:44   which you know what I think if it had been if it had been some kind of [TS]

01:43:48   documentary on North Korea that had you know sparked the hack and public need to [TS]

01:43:57   see this movie right that I bet I would be surprised about what had made the [TS]

01:44:01   exception but I feel like it almost doesn't matter like and I actually did [TS]

01:44:06   rent a movie remanent now it was really that I did that their best but at their [TS]

01:44:14   worst seems like an odd not the best showing for them now there are very few [TS]

01:44:19   movies that even if even though I'm like halfway through in like wow I regret [TS]

01:44:23   running [TS]

01:44:23   but I'll stick it through to the end that this one I did not make it to my [TS]

01:44:28   wife I just latisha let's just go bad otherwise I'm gonna fall asleep in front [TS]

01:44:34   of this thing it was not funny but I still feel like you know we can't have [TS]

01:44:41   our movies being held to the whims of you know anonymous not job hackers ya [TS]

01:44:46   gotta stick to your guns and I kind of feel like so as stupid as the movie [TS]

01:44:52   itself actually is I kind of feel like it really was an exceptional situation [TS]

01:44:56   that warranted probably exceptional and ill an exception from Apple from what [TS]

01:45:03   they would typically do I know it wasn't just like Sony it called them up and we [TS]

01:45:09   had this movie from the summer and we've got it scheduled to come up with you [TS]

01:45:14   guys on January 2nd but you know it's like we do it like a week early may be [TS]

01:45:19   given up on Christmas and apples iknow you guys you know before you know your [TS]

01:45:24   chance to do that was last week it's coming up on January 2nd this was not [TS]

01:45:28   just like a regular situation like you said the present United States is [TS]

01:45:32   talking about right right I mean I'm glad the little back in theaters and it [TS]

01:45:36   sounds like it was the theater chains were like we're afraid we don't scare [TS]

01:45:39   people away from the other movies that were just gonna punted I'm glad that [TS]

01:45:42   that some theaters finally showed it and i'm glad that it was on VOD and the [TS]

01:45:47   people can watch it and yeah it's a shame in a way that this isn't over a [TS]

01:45:51   more serious thoughtful piece of work instead of a kind of stoner Road comedy [TS]

01:45:57   but you know I like Franco and Rogan I mean I like from all the way back and [TS]

01:46:02   freaks and geeks days actually [TS]

01:46:04   and the fact that Seth Rogen is a guy who headlines movies is totally crazy [TS]

01:46:10   for me because I mean look at that guy he's not a movie starring Eddie is a [TS]

01:46:14   movie star I love that and he's a writer who has become you know he was primarily [TS]

01:46:18   a writer who has become more of an active I i have lots of positive [TS]

01:46:21   thoughts about those guys even if the movie is kinda sucky I'm glad that I got [TS]

01:46:26   out there and yeah [TS]

01:46:27   yeah you would think you would think somebody that would be like hey guys I [TS]

01:46:32   think we need to do this and and i think perhaps they did happen eventually after [TS]

01:46:36   the fact we're maybe on Christmas Day somebody was like why why are we not out [TS]

01:46:40   there with this and so now we see it you know it went on iTunes faster than I [TS]

01:46:46   thought once it didn't go on i tunes on the day of release I thought that's [TS]

01:46:49   gonna lag behind their gonna come up and turn the lights back on and then they're [TS]

01:46:53   gonna put it out there it got a bit faster than I thought after after they [TS]

01:46:57   passed by the initial drop date now it was exactly did I would say it was [TS]

01:47:02   exactly what I expected I read between the lines in my guess was all they said [TS]

01:47:07   was we're not going to do this but not going to get this up by Christmas will [TS]

01:47:11   get it in you know somebody to come back in on Friday or Monday and push the [TS]

01:47:14   button will make an appt yeah stupid movie cannot have a really good [TS]

01:47:22   an an international incident propelled by a a stoner Road comedy amazing [TS]

01:47:30   amazing [TS]

01:47:32   me take a break and thinking third and final sponsor the show and a trifecta of [TS]

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01:49:08   because it's such a hard thing DNS is so easy to screw up and when you do screwed [TS]

01:49:15   up it takes hours to fix because I gotta wait for the changes to propagate and [TS]

01:49:20   how often do regular people mess around with DNS me almost never I kind of [TS]

01:49:25   vaguely so it should know what it's like if they are fired the valley transferred [TS]

01:49:31   people at covered this is all they do all they do is live and breathe DNS and [TS]

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01:50:56   account now I have 16 demeans at her and we have a problem but I do and count [TS]

01:51:02   yeah well I menswear put all that when I when I got six colors that's where I put [TS]

01:51:06   it is yes I was about to say I'm gonna repeat myself but it couldn't it must [TS]

01:51:10   have been something I told you in person because you haven't been on the show I [TS]

01:51:13   think six colors is such a great name when you came out with their you didn't [TS]

01:51:19   ask me you didn't say hey joie thinkin a mutant my feelings are a little [TS]

01:51:24   yeah well that was I mean I expected a lot more hand-wringing and and [TS]

01:51:28   difficulty honestly I i i did some brainstorming when I decided I was going [TS]

01:51:34   to do this site and I thought I don't want to be I something or Mac something [TS]

01:51:39   I'd already spent years dealing with a brand name with Mac in it that was [TS]

01:51:43   talking about iOS and I also one of the freedom to talk about other tech stuff [TS]

01:51:46   that's not Apple related at all but I also didn't want to be just completely [TS]

01:51:50   divorced I wanted I wanted to mean something to me completely divorced from [TS]

01:51:52   Apple is likely if I can tip my cap at Apple somehow and yet have not be [TS]

01:51:56   necessary to understanding just haven't been easy to scan cite cite name that [TS]

01:52:02   that was what I was looking for and I also wanted to be something that was [TS]

01:52:05   kind of normal words and sellable and a dot com those are Scott sort of all my [TS]

01:52:09   rules can I did TV dotnet which was te ve day and there's nothing worse than [TS]

01:52:13   having to spell it out and then and then point out it's not a dot com dot net and [TS]

01:52:17   you know i just i wanted to be simple and then that that struck me that [TS]

01:52:21   classic you know it comes from their D interview that Steve Jobs did with [TS]

01:52:27   Walton Kara about when he came back to Apple [TS]

01:52:30   wrapping back around the beginning of the show in in 96 97 [TS]

01:52:34   and he was amazed at how many good people were still there when he thought [TS]

01:52:38   the company should be just empty because it was in such dire straits and and the [TS]

01:52:42   phrase that struck him at the time was somebody told him permit multiple people [TS]

01:52:47   told him that we know we believe six colors here or I believe six colors that [TS]

01:52:51   the classic Apple rainbow logo which was the logo the time it's like it's in my [TS]

01:52:55   blood this is Apple is part of who I am and that struck steve is like a leading [TS]

01:53:00   six colors that make sense you love Apple like I love Apple let's make some [TS]

01:53:03   great stuff and I i felt like that was that was like I'm not going always [TS]

01:53:07   praised everything Apple does Amanda criticized Apple I'm gonna try to be [TS]

01:53:09   fair when I read about Apple and I'm gonna read about things that are now but [TS]

01:53:12   Apple has defined my career and tech journalism there's no doubt about it and [TS]

01:53:17   it would be crazy for me not to find a way to to reference that and so I [TS]

01:53:22   thought you know bleed 66 colors believe six colors what you know let me look [TS]

01:53:26   that up and I found out that there were no website called that the dot-com [TS]

01:53:31   domain for it was available it was owned by somebody but it was just cite [TS]

01:53:35   literally saying make me an offer and I thought well like I know I give it a few [TS]

01:53:39   days where I just thought maybe maybe not doing want to do this what I want to [TS]

01:53:44   do but I I never went to a backup name as I thought well this is greater than [TS]

01:53:48   the same accuracy I dot com its regular English words and so yes then I ended up [TS]

01:53:55   making making those people on offer and transferring it to her and about six [TS]

01:53:58   colors with a you for everybody in Commonwealth countries it redirects to [TS]

01:54:03   the one without the year it does it read director doesn't mean it redirects it [TS]

01:54:07   and what I wanna do at some point is read a script or something that mirror [TS]

01:54:11   set with all of the words swapped out for their equivalents but I haven't [TS]

01:54:15   gotten to that point yet [TS]

01:54:17   maybe there'll be a good addition to smarty pants English if I like a monocle [TS]

01:54:23   and a top hat on it but yeah so it was I'm glad you liked it I i've got [TS]

01:54:28   incredibly positive feedback from it which is which is great cuz you never [TS]

01:54:31   expect positive feedback from anything on the internet you expect people to [TS]

01:54:33   grouse about it but you know i've been I i'm happy to have the people say nice [TS]

01:54:39   things about it and I'm happy about it I was like I said I expected this to be a [TS]

01:54:44   real trial and for me to get something that was a compromise could you hear [TS]

01:54:47   those stories and Marco tells a story about overcast now he had all these [TS]

01:54:50   different ideas and you know things he couldn't get things in past about a [TS]

01:54:54   trademark search or anything like that and you know for this I was really just [TS]

01:54:58   looking for ideally a.com domain I would have taken some others probably if I [TS]

01:55:04   could come up with something clever but this for me was a good fit it's like if [TS]

01:55:08   you get what its referencing then great and if you don't it doesn't matter it's [TS]

01:55:12   just it's just a brand new Nigerian fireball is it's a good name you know [TS]

01:55:17   it's good it's but it's funny though cuz it's not enough to have a good name now [TS]

01:55:21   because well I wonder about that today I know Jason freed Basecamp 37620 is 137 I [TS]

01:55:32   will for the rest of my life but he he's written about how domain names don't [TS]

01:55:38   mean as much anymore and they have Basecamp dot com now but I think at [TS]

01:55:44   least 10 years HQ everybody who use Basecamp knows his thing was man people [TS]

01:55:51   just google based in NY 10018 have an account they just start typing be in [TS]

01:55:57   Toronto in on the address field and it fills in and when they're looking for it [TS]

01:56:03   they don't go to the website they go to google and type base camp and pay see if [TS]

01:56:07   we could be based campaign HQ access G and they would get to us [TS]

01:56:12   so I do think it's a little bit less important agree I like it better to have [TS]

01:56:17   a good name that just sounds like a good name six colors it sounds good rather [TS]

01:56:21   than worry about the domain but I still think that there's an art to getting a [TS]

01:56:24   name where it looks like a good you are you know and so every once in a while as [TS]

01:56:30   I can simple but like a lot of times when you have like an ass in the middle [TS]

01:56:34   it it if its plural Lake sixes colors dot com it's like you know it doesn't [TS]

01:56:42   look at it you lose the two words you know you want if you gonna combined two [TS]

01:56:47   words the daring fireballer six colors you want it to be completely unambiguous [TS]

01:56:52   even without CamelCase because that's how most people and every once in awhile [TS]

01:56:56   you come up with a domain name it's like two words put together they sound great [TS]

01:57:00   the meaning is great but then you look at the mall or kiss together and it's [TS]

01:57:04   like you can read it I mean we had a lot of politics involving picking a name for [TS]

01:57:08   the site that we launched it at IDG and we chose tech high and there are a lot [TS]

01:57:12   of things I love I love the logo I love the colors I like the name but in a [TS]

01:57:16   browser it looks terrible because it's the two ages in the middle [TS]

01:57:19   that's a that's exactly the sort of thing i'm talking now but again it did [TS]

01:57:24   you know but that's two ages in a row it's it's exactly right whereas in if it [TS]

01:57:30   wasn't for the URL you would never it never occurred because the 82nd age [TS]

01:57:34   would always be uppercase the interview CamelCase or it would be two words with [TS]

01:57:39   a space between them but either way it would be a lowercase agent a [TS]

01:57:42   capitulation it wouldn't be a problem but I did get and I've never even used [TS]

01:57:45   this it redirects but I did get 6 colo dot RSS cuz I don't know why not that's [TS]

01:57:53   like Serbia Serbian demand register has some of my money now but I don't know [TS]

01:57:58   why I bought a lot of domains when I was speculating about the about the name and [TS]

01:58:01   that's why I have 16 demeans and offers I've got a bleed six colors and bleed [TS]

01:58:05   six and numerals six of something but not of six colors and and a few other [TS]

01:58:10   names that were in there snow world which is where I posted my like a sort [TS]

01:58:14   of resignation announcement thing that was just a placeholder until I get lunch [TS]

01:58:18   six colors but I it's a name right its name was real words you don't have to [TS]

01:58:24   explain it during fireball is like that [TS]

01:58:25   you might ask what does that mean but the words are recognizable it's an [TS]

01:58:30   understandable concept I think I think in the art of naming that's what you [TS]

01:58:34   want is you want something that is gonna catch a little bit and be like oh yeah [TS]

01:58:36   yeah even if the domain doesn't matter although quite frankly during a [TS]

01:58:40   podcaster your own a TV interview and somebody says oh where can people read [TS]

01:58:44   about you it helps especially at the beginning to say six colors dot com [TS]

01:58:48   because you know if you say well he's a weird URL you have to go to it's less [TS]

01:58:53   likely anybody's gonna remember it but they might remember the name did you get [TS]

01:58:56   the digits six colors and I i would like to get that at some point but it was [TS]

01:59:02   quite frankly it was too expensive [TS]

01:59:03   after about the others I was like wow that's really pricey for just a redirect [TS]

01:59:07   and to your point about Google I feel like after some amount of time of me [TS]

01:59:13   doing this I can decide whether I want to go ahead and buy that and my feeling [TS]

01:59:18   is at some point those other alternatives are a lot less valuable [TS]

01:59:22   because there's already a thing that is six colors dot com and so numeral six [TS]

01:59:26   colors dot com is not a you know they're gonna think well it's it's valuable they [TS]

01:59:30   can sell it to me but nobody else is gonna want it so I hope to get them [TS]

01:59:34   eventually but I'm not gonna pay an arm and a leg to get them just because they [TS]

01:59:38   will redirect I've told this before my registered during fire by registered at [TS]

01:59:42   net and dot com at the same time and I i went with dot net as the canonical one [TS]

01:59:47   because I i've since grown out of it I guess if I had it to do all over again [TS]

01:59:52   I'd probably use the dot-com but at the time I had a weird aversion to dot com I [TS]

01:59:57   just thought I don't know if it's an exploit I cannot express it just felt [TS]

02:00:02   like that comment you're like a big company was a time when Doug net was [TS]

02:00:06   kinda cool it was likely cool like inside hurry you know where the word the [TS]

02:00:11   techie people of the internet and we we have dot net [TS]

02:00:14   ITV not net and org I just didn't ever get that calm I don't know it just [TS]

02:00:18   seemed to me like a person with a site should not have a duck and I don't even [TS]

02:00:22   know I've never even asked him I always thought maybe that's why can't he uses [TS]

02:00:25   cocky door but I read those two and this is back at a time when they're really [TS]

02:00:31   only three big ones [TS]

02:00:32   net dot com dot org and I didn't register dot org somebody else has this [TS]

02:00:37   guy Peter Haas something you go to daring fireball dorgan's a guy who hosts [TS]

02:00:42   his personal blog their God I swear and done work for six colors i've you know [TS]

02:00:51   every once in awhile somebody alright to me where this but it's like the guy he [TS]

02:00:57   hasn't updated its and two years so and it was never popular so I just thought [TS]

02:01:04   that's not why he did it seems to me like a crazy person it's also possible [TS]

02:01:11   that his pocket somewhere else but he's parked he's parked domain at the same IP [TS]

02:01:15   address and it's just accepting of all the traffic and so even though he's [TS]

02:01:19   thinking that he's serving that it you know my my blog datpiff.com it's also [TS]

02:01:24   Sarah still serving an irreparable I don't have that happen sometimes the app [TS]

02:01:30   for a while the guy who owned newspaper dot com or at least he did own newspaper [TS]

02:01:36   dot com had it redirecting to during fireball I didn't have it I wasn't my [TS]

02:01:42   domain it was this the guy who had and it's a newspaper dot com is probably [TS]

02:01:47   pretty valuable to me maybe it no longer it still isn't a thing if you go to [TS]

02:01:52   newspaper dot com it's like us [TS]

02:01:54   sorry we're down to the moment and there's an animation but for a while and [TS]

02:01:58   it was just weird because it was like I don't know it was enough traffic on a [TS]

02:02:03   daily basis that it showed up in my referrals like as I can with the houses [TS]

02:02:08   newspaper dot com that is like my 15th highest referral and I went to it and it [TS]

02:02:12   was during fire by Nendo now or the other thing was while he was doing it I [TS]

02:02:17   would get I would get about one or two offers a month to buy it [TS]

02:02:21   sure and I was like how many as I gotta know why its point my site but it in me [TS]

02:02:26   I remember there is a story about that maybe even a site I did had that for a [TS]

02:02:31   while where somebody owned it and they didn't want to give it to us or sell it [TS]

02:02:35   to us but they said but I'm not using it soldiers related to you for now I was [TS]

02:02:39   like ok [TS]

02:02:40   that doesn't help me because I can't rely on it but it's nice that you turn [TS]

02:02:44   the speakers on us for a while with tv.com is that it was a it was a blog on [TS]

02:02:49   CNET for awhile and TV I think snow wasn't even seen it was like Hotwire [TS]

02:02:55   something like that and wired digital got sold to like like hosts or Alta [TS]

02:03:00   Vista or something like that and it basically got sucked into this nine [TS]

02:03:04   internet company to the point where they were never using it he visited that dot [TS]

02:03:08   com of my dot net dot org you went to the dot-com you just went to the search [TS]

02:03:11   engine homepage and I spent years trying to get them to not even to sell it to me [TS]

02:03:18   to find the person who is in charge of the terrorists to this to this day I [TS]

02:03:24   have no idea just give me somebody to talk to you know we just have this blog [TS]

02:03:29   you're not using it it was the name of a blog on a website that you bought ten [TS]

02:03:33   years ago they only did 10 posts or whatever and then and then they shut it [TS]

02:03:37   down and to this day if you go to te ve dot com you end up at insider info dot [TS]

02:03:42   com at the Lycos network which yeah with with with a form submission of src [TS]

02:03:52   equals nm domains I wonder if that's why all of our did domains just redirect to [TS]

02:03:58   this page where they where they don't even know what it's like [TS]

02:04:03   user-submitted content or something like that they're running out all these don't [TS]

02:04:06   all demands but it's like that they just they got that domain demands are funny [TS]

02:04:11   they got the domain a million years ago and they just keep paying whatever [TS]

02:04:14   they're paying as part of the thousand domains that they own and will pay for [TS]

02:04:19   it forever and you know that's always a problem when you're shopping for domains [TS]

02:04:23   is is that is that if it's somebody wants to sell its great but if it's just [TS]

02:04:26   inside the mom of a giant corporation forget it just forget it [TS]

02:04:31   TV de vez the problem here [TS]

02:04:35   dot com dot com yeah it just redirects it like some kind of weird sight but [TS]

02:04:41   done and/or good you know we we still have actually and I was that was my you [TS]

02:04:45   know there was a TV blog with my friends and I did for [TS]

02:04:47   like 96 2011 sometime in the two thousands and supply coastal thing I [TS]

02:04:55   guess so again there's a company that swallowed a fly coast that owns the the [TS]

02:04:59   assets including all those domains that they bond is still run it and now I just [TS]

02:05:03   went there is still operate as a search and yeah I thought of like us and it's [TS]

02:05:09   amazing it's amazing and it may even be powered by somebody else but it's it's [TS]

02:05:13   it's still there so you can still go there and get searchers I'm sure they're [TS]

02:05:17   really good I wonder if their search results from the nineties be funny I [TS]

02:05:22   searched for Jason Snelling to redirect me to snow world so that's not bad [TS]

02:05:26   they're up to date I was at my mom's house and she found a thing I did mack [TS]

02:05:33   user again bringing back around the internet roadmap and it was like [TS]

02:05:36   literally this this subscription premium i think is a newsstand premium was like [TS]

02:05:43   a road map of sites on the internet and they were all interconnected and it was [TS]

02:05:47   actually a project we did when we went from site to site with links each site [TS]

02:05:50   had to link to the next site in a chain and it is crazy but the funny thing [TS]

02:05:57   about it is that the backbone of that that we used to really make it [TS]

02:06:00   functional was Yahoo at Stanford [TS]

02:06:04   just a like a link directory and we would use that to link out to the sides [TS]

02:06:09   and literally like a hundred and fifty sites on the map and it was most of the [TS]

02:06:12   Internet in 1995 when everything was so I had to look this up he looked it up [TS]

02:06:19   through like us talking about domain names like that now it's a classic [TS]

02:06:26   McSweeney's article you had to have seen this from 2004 written by [TS]

02:06:31   michael ward and its email addresses it would be really annoying to give out [TS]

02:06:36   over the phone it's it's it's much more visual joked in a verbal joke because of [TS]

02:06:44   the email addresses but it's like for example imagine if your surname were [TS]

02:06:49   underscore Mike underscore or yahoo.com I just put in the rest of these I don't [TS]

02:07:01   want to spoil it but it's a funny little 50 item list gag I started doing my show [TS]

02:07:08   nuts but good people like those you've noticed its I used to be really lazy [TS]

02:07:16   about it but I feel like it's one of the little things they can do to make this [TS]

02:07:19   show a little better [TS]

02:07:20   well you know people are in their cars and they hear about something that's [TS]

02:07:23   going to be interesting and then they get to work and they forget what was [TS]

02:07:27   that thing and it's hard to look back at you know stan through two hours of [TS]

02:07:33   biogas when you can just go to the show notes and that's what I was looking for [TS]

02:07:37   your pre Instapaper in the show for them and it's a pain I mean it's only a pain [TS]

02:07:44   but I do as you go along it's a little bit easier I started to do that with the [TS]

02:07:49   uncomfortable and with clockwise Mike does it for upgrade but you know just [TS]

02:07:54   somebody mentioned something I just write it down like and it's a pain to do [TS]

02:07:58   that cuz it gives you a little bit out of the flow of your concentration of the [TS]

02:08:01   of the conversation but at the same time a kind of beats having to go back later [TS]

02:08:06   and say where did they mention something and you know and people do like it [TS]

02:08:09   people appreciate it when you those links in a Draenei on on last episode [TS]

02:08:16   and I think he even wrote on IM or the heat is on over 300 podcast last year [TS]

02:08:21   and I knew I already asked you to do the next episode I do think I've gotten back [TS]

02:08:26   to back to most prolific podcasters on the Mac web how many packets and you're [TS]

02:08:34   probably do in morn so maybe a better question is how many are you on pace to [TS]

02:08:38   do under my curly probably has me beat or its close I would say if I keep doing [TS]

02:08:45   what I've been doing now [TS]

02:08:47   next year let me do some lunch bar mat here let's see i'd say two hundred and [TS]

02:08:59   fifty so you're at ballpark great I mean we're talking like if somebody wanted to [TS]

02:09:04   listen to every show that you're on your own there talking 500 episodes yeah I [TS]

02:09:09   mean because because fast and I i don't expect anybody to be completed but yes I [TS]

02:09:15   basically I'm doing for weekly podcasts I'm not the center of all four amino I [TS]

02:09:22   do the one with Tim Goodman from The Hollywood Reporter and we talked about [TS]

02:09:25   TV cuz he's the TV critic of the hollywood reporter and I'm the same kind [TS]

02:09:29   of the classic dan Benjamin role in that where I'm facilitating in producing it [TS]

02:09:33   and posting it really it's like I'm asking questions of the guy who's the [TS]

02:09:36   expert on TV because he's TV critic at The Hollywood Reporter that's a very [TS]

02:09:40   different kind of show to do then in Kabul more like clockwise is just a half [TS]

02:09:45   an hour into the median more and then upgrade is me a lot of me but might [TS]

02:09:49   produces that one so you know each of them takes a little bit of a different [TS]

02:09:52   amount of time but yeah if you put those together and multiply them by 52 thats [TS]

02:09:56   208 podcast right there and then there are some others that are like I did I [TS]

02:10:02   did a podcast after every episode of Game of Thrones last year and this year [TS]

02:10:06   and Doctor Who as well and so that that's an extra like 23 episodes and we [TS]

02:10:12   do our little done and done those those render them comfortable those were the [TS]

02:10:17   flash cast were under TV actually TEM reusing the names and logos I think if [TS]

02:10:23   you pronounce it [TS]

02:10:24   T T [TS]

02:10:26   I V TV Long EZ anyway we put it there cuz I know I'm torn I could basically [TS]

02:10:34   have like five pages a week meaning comfortable for you now I feel like [TS]

02:10:37   thats that would be a litter so there's like a master for you with everything [TS]

02:10:40   and then you can just subscribe to the individual podcast if you want to and [TS]

02:10:44   then we do the Dungeons and Dragons thing which is literally we played [TS]

02:10:47   Dungeons and Dragons once every six weeks for like four hours and then that [TS]

02:10:50   comes out every other week in a one hour chunks so it's not a lot of time and [TS]

02:10:55   it's fun but that is another podcast and I'm on and then I say yes to be on other [TS]

02:10:59   people's podcast like this one so it's a lot there's a lot of podcasting we'll [TS]

02:11:03   see how how how long I last I wish podcasting with more like aerobic [TS]

02:11:07   exercise cuz I I could really use some more exercise and instead I'm just doing [TS]

02:11:10   a lot of podcasting [TS]

02:11:12   very healthy if purchasing was more than I've been dreading this whole time I've [TS]

02:11:19   been putting off the end of the show but I feel like I've gotta run by an apology [TS]

02:11:24   is that go one more episode of the talk show scheduled for 2014 and it's it's [TS]

02:11:31   going to be a special episode on Star Wars who and and I didn't invite you its [TS]

02:11:38   ok I know I know I know I forgive you I know way more than I know so many huge [TS]

02:11:45   star Wars fans I am now I'm not one of those I I like Star Wars a lot and i'm [TS]

02:11:49   happy to talk we talked about a million times for millions of hours in syracuse [TS]

02:11:53   and in morning I did find out more than an hour on the trailer for The Force [TS]

02:11:58   away his right but you know it in even in our sphere I could list off a whole [TS]

02:12:02   bunch of people who are bigger Star Wars fans than than me including you and and [TS]

02:12:06   Johnson and Ian Moore and now it's gonna be me it's gonna be Siracusa and an end [TS]

02:12:12   to keep us straight and sort of three keep us from getting too serious guy [TS]

02:12:16   English well that's good that's that's perfect I love I love it [TS]

02:12:19   well my thing is i feel like i I cannot be responsible I can't be the host from [TS]

02:12:26   more than [TS]

02:12:27   panel of three including me because it's it's beyond my Ken as a host there would [TS]

02:12:35   also be like eight hours long [TS]

02:12:36   if if you were just completely just free to talk about star worse that's the [TS]

02:12:41   that's why I've said this before but I'm gonna mention here because I'm not sure [TS]

02:12:46   I've said it anywhere [TS]

02:12:47   one of my favorite moments in waiting in line for an Apple Keynote ever was you [TS]

02:12:51   and me and I think like dan moore and it was there was a press area before WWC [TS]

02:12:57   and we're talking about Raiders of the Lost Ark for like 20 minutes and there [TS]

02:13:01   was a moment when the door is starting to accordion up and you looked at me and [TS]

02:13:04   you're like forget this let's just go talk about Raiders lost art form or was [TS]

02:13:09   that was that was almost like yeah that would be fun but that was the [TS]

02:13:14   incomparable I did I did the incomparable them yes yeah yeah that was [TS]

02:13:18   union then talking about it yeah [TS]

02:13:21   to do one of those again sometime you know on something something that you [TS]

02:13:25   that you really like that we could cover cuz I was it was a good one and 11 of [TS]

02:13:30   the I still hear from people who listen to that one partially [TS]

02:13:33   John Gruber was on new compilation listen to that the whole goal of that [TS]

02:13:37   show from the beginning was it's a catalog show you should be able to go [TS]

02:13:40   back to 2010 when we recorded that one and listen to me where the Lost Ark [TS]

02:13:44   isn't any different [TS]

02:13:46   it's you know it's it's fixed in time and you should be able to go and pick [TS]

02:13:49   that episode off the shelf and listen to it and get something out of it you know [TS]

02:13:52   and I think you can and I that was always the intent and I am happy that [TS]

02:13:57   you know four-plus years later that that still true that some one of my favorite [TS]

02:14:02   because it's one of my favorite movies in fact I I look back and I think we [TS]

02:14:05   should go on for like two or three hours on that night just one yeah exactly I [TS]

02:14:08   think it was when we had an artificial time no shooting for an hour yeah I [TS]

02:14:13   always when I always want you say it hasn't changed isn't going to change I [TS]

02:14:16   always imagined in the back of my head that like every Monday spielberg comes [TS]

02:14:21   into the office and AM blend and there's like a stack of like three pink slips [TS]

02:14:26   that say george talks Raiders of the Lost Ark special edition [TS]

02:14:33   he just picks them up the space that's no I mean it actually bad enough the [TS]

02:14:40   packaging is now labeled Indiana Jones and the Raiders which is just [TS]

02:14:44   unacceptable [TS]

02:14:47   George Carney added idea boulder could be on fire [TS]

02:14:50   yeah they'll be much better with insert a scene in CGI [TS]

02:14:54   Belloc is already in Egypt George called the nada there's a whole fleet of [TS]

02:15:02   airplanes waiting on the river not just one instead of the traveling across the [TS]

02:15:07   map they travel across a 3d globe good do you see somebody put together a [TS]

02:15:14   special edition of the force awakens trailer yeah yeah yeah I did and they [TS]

02:15:19   did like a killer I should have to put those killer job like somebody actually [TS]

02:15:24   knows what theyre doing like VFX like and buzzing Duncan Tatooine in the end [TS]

02:15:33   it is well it it's only funny because it's not even an exaggeration because [TS]

02:15:42   it's exactly the sort of the did happen in the special edition of the Star Wars [TS]

02:15:45   movies but like there's the scene where the East Sea obvious and you see the [TS]

02:15:49   Millennium Falcon it's like being chased by like three Thai fighters were now [TS]

02:15:52   being chased by 45 more exciting that way clearly anyway so everybody out [TS]

02:16:03   there if you want to if you listen to the show will air first and then this [TS]

02:16:07   store special edition if you want to warm up for a holiday week end of the [TS]

02:16:11   holiday season special talk show popular favorite Star Wars movies into your [TS]

02:16:17   movie player of choice that's good advice [TS]

02:16:22   Jason Snell and let you go I think I think we've long enough probable down [TS]

02:16:28   long enough I appreciate the invite it's always it's always nice to talk to you [TS]

02:16:32   and and hopefully no calamitous things will befall me in the next couple of [TS]

02:16:37   days if they do anything bad happens in the next week I think we're gonna have [TS]

02:16:43   to call this may be asked to leave the episode just forget it [TS]

02:16:49   all right thank you Jason [TS]

02:16:53   have a good new year to invite any time ok see you soon probably probably right [TS]