The Talk Show

101: ‘Like a Butt Crack’, With Christa Mrgan


00:00:00   yes but can you hear me yes I can hear you [TS]

00:00:03   yeah and I can hear us but very strange I don't know I don't know I seriously I [TS]

00:00:08   spent 15 minutes and made probably 12 recordings to make sure that everything [TS]

00:00:12   was 5 I'm telling you I include most [TS]

00:00:18   half the time we include the stuff in the show like me had problems with Skype [TS]

00:00:23   like like mister Magoo it's like nothing can possibly know I never want to have a [TS]

00:00:32   podcast where it actually just plain works it's always a horrible thing is [TS]

00:00:38   that I work like this is what I do every day and some now just just screws up [TS]

00:00:47   every time that I actually mean when I testing that's fine and so is fine and I [TS]

00:00:51   did you know sometimes there in front of intestinal good things are going well [TS]

00:00:54   and then now actually using them it's a nice if they can't be any of our perfect [TS]

00:01:01   perfectly usable software which always functions hundred-percent so you anyway [TS]

00:01:08   christa Morgan thinks you do as well thank you I have so much to talk about I [TS]

00:01:15   am so excited because the white stuff came out and yes you excited about the [TS]

00:01:19   want I'm excited about the watch and also I don't have this this happens sort [TS]

00:01:25   of I feel like every time there's either a big update to an Apple product or a [TS]

00:01:30   preview of upcoming music well they really need that and then of course I [TS]

00:01:35   know the data comes out I'm going to give me this thing so I'm excited about [TS]

00:01:40   it but also a little late but I know I'm excited because I think it's kind of [TS]

00:01:45   cool but I also think that it is it's this weird mix of [TS]

00:01:52   Apple being way ahead of where they've ever been with a new product before [TS]

00:01:56   combined with that there's still a lot of mystery around it [TS]

00:02:00   there is yeah there's quite a bit of mystery as to what I mean even even with [TS]

00:02:05   the watch kids out now I feel like they're still mystery about what you'll [TS]

00:02:11   you'll actually be able to do in this sort of first round before we can build [TS]

00:02:15   truly need to pass on the watch for me yeah I mean I the day that it came out I [TS]

00:02:23   think I think was the very day maybe was not the same day I was out in San [TS]

00:02:27   Francisco because I was at the event and they announced the thing and that I was [TS]

00:02:32   down in Cupertino or not yet for the event and I came back to San Francisco [TS]

00:02:39   and I like put my nose together and you know Michael operate ransom and he is in [TS]

00:02:46   San Francisco now he works there is it Pinterest and we met and we had a drink [TS]

00:02:50   and end the first thing that he said to me was that this is weird because it [TS]

00:02:54   feels like this is like your three of the watch because there's like two [TS]

00:02:59   different sizes there's all these different bands like it feels like [TS]

00:03:02   third-generation Apple product like okay now we're gonna give you two sizes and [TS]

00:03:07   we're gonna give you choices of the styles whereas the traditional the [TS]

00:03:12   traditional way of doing an Apple product is here's the one here's the [TS]

00:03:16   here's the first one and there's one way and it's very limited and you get it's [TS]

00:03:21   everybody's going to have the exact same size and exact same band and you're [TS]

00:03:25   gonna like and that's it right and it just feels like they've skipped like a [TS]

00:03:31   year to end it seems the same way with the SDK like I know that it's not truly [TS]

00:03:36   native apps yet that we're we're just projecting apps from extensions from the [TS]

00:03:41   iPhone but that we don't get some huge compared to like the iPhone SDK [TS]

00:03:45   you know when that that's a click here something right and like it was just [TS]

00:03:49   upset right we don't even have the watch yet and yet we can start thinking about [TS]

00:03:54   the apps for it yes it seems incredible that is [TS]

00:03:58   yeah that's it [TS]

00:04:00   it's really that really puts it in perspective actually since going to look [TS]

00:04:02   because it's just an extension and they know that really puts it in perspective [TS]

00:04:06   because a specially when you especially when you compare it with the iPhone [TS]

00:04:10   luncheon remember Nevin you know before the SDK was ever even announced before [TS]

00:04:15   they announce anything about third-party apps he was like I'm gonna make a [TS]

00:04:18   website for me but that's what though that's what they'll say that it wasn't [TS]

00:04:23   people are just so mad that there was an interesting case for a long time I think [TS]

00:04:28   what made people mad was at WWDC 2007 and I wrote about this at the time and I [TS]

00:04:34   but I think it made people mad wasn't that they didn't say look we're we're [TS]

00:04:40   just not ready for it yet and you know in the future you can write ups but you [TS]

00:04:45   can't do it or not ready cuz everybody would have sent you a little [TS]

00:04:48   disappointed but we understand but what they did was a double-double TCM it was [TS]

00:04:52   Scott Forstall in their late we have a really quote unquote the words sweet [TS]

00:04:57   solution for all of you who want to write apps for this phone and everybody [TS]

00:05:02   got so excited everybody is ready to stand up everybody was ready like strong [TS]

00:05:06   the stage and then I realized you can write web apps and it was like yeah and [TS]

00:05:14   I called it on during fireball called it a shit sandwich you know I don't think [TS]

00:05:20   I've ever told this is a funny so that was a guest on monday was the first day [TS]

00:05:26   of WWDC 2007 and I called the data sheets in which and everybody's [TS]

00:05:31   disappointed because they set us up by calling it a sweet solution and it's [TS]

00:05:37   still it was only like five years since I been raining during fireball and I'd [TS]

00:05:41   had as I want to I started getting press credentials for the keynote and stuff [TS]

00:05:46   like that but I was a lot less popular than than during fireballs gotten to [TS]

00:05:54   this point and a day later was like Tuesday WBC and I was riding the [TS]

00:06:01   escalator [TS]

00:06:02   and right behind me was Phil Schiller and i'd never spoken to him face to face [TS]

00:06:07   in my life at that point I was like holy shit Phil Schiller home so I turned [TS]

00:06:12   around I was a and I was it was there that weird way where it's at first you [TS]

00:06:18   think I should introduce myself and anything oh my god no I know I should [TS]

00:06:21   start around pretty silent and I know I should totally get the professional [TS]

00:06:26   thing to do would be to introduce myself because I know he knew my name because I [TS]

00:06:29   know he'd sent emails and I was a hey I'm John Gruber and he was nice to meet [TS]

00:06:35   you and in it the first thing he said to me was nice to meet you and he goes I [TS]

00:06:39   gotta take it I don't think that shit so much higher and that's awesome I was so [TS]

00:06:44   blown away because I was like no fucking way he read my shit on the day of the [TS]

00:06:52   raid exactly will share their stays up late and read your blog and then we got [TS]

00:06:56   in the leg kind of an argument about like a friendly cordial argument about [TS]

00:07:00   whether or not writing web apps for the iPhone was shipped him a great that's [TS]

00:07:06   really cool that's a fun story but anyway we don't have to write should [TS]

00:07:10   sandwiches for the for the Apple watch it's actually pretty pretty awesome and [TS]

00:07:17   so incensed soon to any member when I was watching me how much he knows most [TS]

00:07:22   likely in November that seems I mean yeah just in comparison i mean just [TS]

00:07:26   seems really fast and it's like they were just really thinking about this [TS]

00:07:31   from from the beginning about how they're gonna get third-party developers [TS]

00:07:36   involved like right away which is really cool and nice to see ya I really think [TS]

00:07:42   that it shows that it's like you know I know they said when they unveiled it in [TS]

00:07:46   September that they've been working on for three years but it makes me think [TS]

00:07:49   that they've been thinking about stuff like third party apps for three years 20 [TS]

00:07:55   yeah definitely you know I'm guessing that the iOS App Store is just a mean [TS]

00:08:02   that's just sort of changed you know everything and influence them a lot when [TS]

00:08:07   building is running because we have found you know it probably they're just [TS]

00:08:10   working so hard to get that first initial [TS]

00:08:13   product off the ground maybe they you know they had ideas probably for [TS]

00:08:17   third-party developers not at the outset anyway not for a while and so that's [TS]

00:08:24   pretty cool that they could envision that you know from from the beginning [TS]

00:08:27   with this and it makes me wonder like whoa what's going on with the AppleTV [TS]

00:08:31   AppleTV and that's it that's a very different but it's funny it is funny [TS]

00:08:38   though because you know what it's funny though because it's those are the two [TS]

00:08:44   things that everybody thinks our next well I mean obviously the watch is [TS]

00:08:47   definitely next they've announced it but you know all year long people have been [TS]

00:08:51   thinking you know there have been rumors that they gonna do watch but it's funny [TS]

00:08:55   because TV and the watch our sort of the extremes of computing in terms of being [TS]

00:09:04   like an Apple keeps using this word intimate that the watches the most [TS]

00:09:09   intimate thing they've ever made intimate internet but it's true I don't [TS]

00:09:15   think that it's I don't think that it's like marketing hype I think it means and [TS]

00:09:21   whether the watch is gonna be personal because it's so close to its low on your [TS]

00:09:26   skin all the time you know and and and the TV is the opposite is the least [TS]

00:09:35   intimate computing destination that they could possibly make you sit far away [TS]

00:09:40   from it you know you're you know you instead of measuring inches your [TS]

00:09:45   passively watch things right and famously [TS]

00:09:48   you know it's a passive device that you kind of you now you know your mind you [TS]

00:09:54   know kind of blanks when you're watching TV and so it's kind of funny that those [TS]

00:09:59   are the two things I don't know and I wonder though if there's like a design [TS]

00:10:05   connection between them [TS]

00:10:07   because the does seem though that overall their design aesthetic is sort [TS]

00:10:10   of zeroing in on a sort of style [TS]

00:10:14   yeah and I wonder how there could be something as as different as a watching [TS]

00:10:21   the TV if they could share a certain aesthetic I don't know oh well yeah I'm [TS]

00:10:26   in love i mean so the deputy be finally got a bit of a refreshed its not just [TS]

00:10:33   sort of like a new coat of paint it's not for me it's just not a big it's not [TS]

00:10:37   a huge updated just ordered like got rid of the glossiness and it's and it's more [TS]

00:10:41   in line with them like I S seven and eight but would be really cool if it [TS]

00:10:50   borrowed from the watches aesthetic I'm really I mean so far from screenshots [TS]

00:10:54   from the videos I've seen in the watch it looks beautiful but an uneven just [TS]

00:11:00   things like controlling the TV with with with a lot because the IRS at the [TS]

00:11:05   controls up a terrible i mean that's 11 little bridge but like yeah if the UIF [TS]

00:11:11   of the TV somehow be influenced by the way that would be great but I also just [TS]

00:11:15   see you I don't know I OS apps on the TV games and so you have an Apple TV I do [TS]

00:11:24   yeah I every time I mention being frustrated by the remote their physical [TS]

00:11:31   remote the country and I hate that its infrared because it's like our TiVo I [TS]

00:11:37   think we're like two generations in with Bluetooth TiVo remote so you don't have [TS]

00:11:43   to point the remote anything and you get used to that you get used to not having [TS]

00:11:47   to point it and that stupid Apple TV remote and I always think like a balance [TS]

00:11:53   the battery the battery is weak and that's why can't do it all by Anu stupid [TS]

00:11:58   little you know whatever the battery is a buy a new one put it in and it's [TS]

00:12:02   exactly the same and it's not the battery packs just finished he is just [TS]

00:12:08   so and it's a mean it's only like slightly better than the horrible [TS]

00:12:13   plastic one they used to come to the Apple TV n with and with mexico years [TS]

00:12:18   ago so the white right right [TS]

00:12:19   just remember just it's no good and we have a Roku 3 as well and you know it's [TS]

00:12:27   about the same crazy second-guessing Apple TV and just like the interfaces is [TS]

00:12:32   just us so much more it just makes me kind of said controller is also looking [TS]

00:12:36   game controller and you can plug into it and it's it's not you know sleek and [TS]

00:12:41   sophisticated it sort of chunky in a friendly design but it's so much better [TS]

00:12:45   like as an actual remote control its kinda makes me sad everytime I bring [TS]

00:12:51   this up especially on the show and I know there's people who who are [TS]

00:12:55   listening right now and they're already firing up their email there already [TS]

00:12:58   writing the email to me telling me this time around I stop don't send me the [TS]

00:13:02   email they're gonna say oh for the iPhone the iPhone how is worse the app [TS]

00:13:11   is everything except typing passwords rate and that's you know assuming that [TS]

00:13:17   the the Apple connect with the Apple TV would sometimes mine still doesn't mean [TS]

00:13:21   I can't find it and by the time the lunches and connects to Apple TV I could [TS]

00:13:27   have used a terrible to do whatever I need to do and yes just not just as it's [TS]

00:13:36   known to me though it's it's it's them to me the single biggest deal with Apple [TS]

00:13:44   TV is the remote honestly I don't care if they don't I would love it if they [TS]

00:13:48   added apps I'd love it if they had an SDK I don't but if they came out with [TS]

00:13:53   the exact same looking and and logical interface but just had like a Bluetooth [TS]

00:13:59   remote that just always working like every time every time I hit up it goes [TS]

00:14:05   up and every time I head down it was down instead of having to damn thing I [TS]

00:14:10   would be so much happier with this definitely so anyway I do think I think [TS]

00:14:18   that what could be could be a huge deal like a watch thing that knows like I and [TS]

00:14:25   I think this is possible that it could no like [TS]

00:14:29   not just that you're in the same house they got the same wi-fi network but if [TS]

00:14:32   you're close enough that you could be watching Apple TV you know so that it [TS]

00:14:37   would know and if there's something plane then the watch could like have the [TS]

00:14:42   playback controls automatically that would be so don't be so great that would [TS]

00:14:47   be such a be a game-changer I know that that's pushing it would and it's not [TS]

00:14:55   far-fetched it seems like that would be a pretty straightforward after them to [TS]

00:15:00   make him in nineteen people to release natively only from the watch great so [TS]

00:15:05   here's hoping I think Tim Cook said that it was on the Charlie Rose interview but [TS]

00:15:10   one of the interviews he said like you know after they announced the watch and [TS]

00:15:14   now that he's out about wearing the watch he's even said that one of the [TS]

00:15:18   things he does with the disease control as Apple TV [TS]

00:15:21   oh yeah I didn't mister mister so it's definitely i mean whether they're going [TS]

00:15:27   to ship that in the initial version or not but you know they're obviously have [TS]

00:15:31   it working you know like as a beta it's already working I can't help but think [TS]

00:15:36   that it's the potential is there for it to be totally it might require a brand [TS]

00:15:42   new Apple TV but if it's still only 99 bucks it's only 99 bucks so so what by a [TS]

00:15:46   new Apple TV but if it could be like you know I know that you're on you're stupid [TS]

00:15:52   couch watching your stupid TV so here here's the playback controls for AppleTV [TS]

00:15:57   pause and then you can just tap your risk deposit and get up in you know [TS]

00:16:01   refresher Brevard to river would be so great [TS]

00:16:04   yeah yeah yeah I'd love popcorn does not like it because the Colonels [TS]

00:16:13   I'm a big problem is you know he has a very particular can I tell you that I'm [TS]

00:16:22   41 years old and I have only three months ago my my mother-in-law his mom [TS]

00:16:28   actually gave us this tip and it is like the greatest trip ever made me think of [TS]

00:16:32   it as weird I did the idea being lazy and just watching movies on the couch [TS]

00:16:37   you know this to use coconut oil when you cook your popcorn is the secret to [TS]

00:16:46   like what like movie theater popcorn tastes like so it is it makes sense if I [TS]

00:16:54   know that is usually median so it's that's what they do it so you don't need [TS]

00:16:59   anything and you don't need anything else all you need is plain popcorn like [TS]

00:17:02   just whatever you know you don't find a special part you buy coconut oil and [TS]

00:17:08   just salt and you put in coconut oil is weird and when you buy it and anybody [TS]

00:17:14   listening who follows us to tell you it's genius nobody told me she said she [TS]

00:17:20   said just buy coconut oil and I went to the supermarket look and coconut oil is [TS]

00:17:24   it has a melting point of 76 degrees so it's gonna be solid yes it's very it's [TS]

00:17:31   like Angie oh yeah it's it's more like that it's more like butter like it's [TS]

00:17:36   something you don't pour it uses congealed is the perfect work that's [TS]

00:17:42   normal [TS]

00:17:43   that's exactly right you put like two teaspoons of it in your hands and you [TS]

00:17:49   put the pub morning and it makes an amazing it's exactly it is a secret to [TS]

00:17:55   movie theater like good movie theater popcorn popcorn his side came from but [TS]

00:18:03   it's good it's it's cooking with exactly that's like three things I know how to [TS]

00:18:07   cook and one of them is proper and everything I know how to cook equally [TS]

00:18:11   simple to make coffee I know how to cook popcorn and it's just in the same way [TS]

00:18:17   that coffee is just ground up coffee beans and then you pour hot water water [TS]

00:18:21   on top of it is put coconut oil pan and he did it medium and then pour salt so [TS]

00:18:31   that's the extent of my cooking not very talented in the kitchen now we just have [TS]

00:18:39   to find a way to all of the little kernel bits so you know I did see [TS]

00:18:44   something I saw something at Whole Foods where they [TS]

00:18:47   there I didn't buy it because it's it's like everything aldrich where it's like [TS]

00:18:51   it's so expensive I was like I don't know about this there's like I forget [TS]

00:18:56   the name I don't know the name of it but then you look at where they sell them on [TS]

00:18:59   popcorn they they had had a special popcorn and it would they were they were [TS]

00:19:04   indeed very tiny kernels and it's called like something something little pop art [TS]

00:19:09   and it advertises as doesn't get stuck in your teeth that that's something [TS]

00:19:14   something about this special brand of popcorn which is slightly more like [TS]

00:19:19   super expensive but it's slightly more expensive than regular popcorn that when [TS]

00:19:24   it pops there is no nothing is left of the shell the entire show so you may [TS]

00:19:31   have to get that for now yeah I really think you would enjoy but we're not sure [TS]

00:19:36   that I would have thought that he was in the popcorn but that it was that he he [TS]

00:19:39   put like crazy flavorings on the pop charts share and I'm sure that he would [TS]

00:19:44   really get into that lake making masala popcorn or something you know really [TS]

00:19:48   interesting but you just you just can't abide the Colonels teeth too much that I [TS]

00:19:58   do sort of the downside everything has it down so it doesn't bother me that [TS]

00:20:03   doesn't stop me [TS]

00:20:05   all right let's take a break and I will thank our first sponsor and it's our [TS]

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00:23:25   thing I've been obsessed most obsessed with with the watch is the font San Fran [TS]

00:23:31   now we have and yes even import San Francisco so yeah you like it it's [TS]

00:23:37   pretty I really liked it I heard from somebody yes i'd Apple couple of weeks [TS]

00:23:42   after it was announced before they they gave them and I was asking like anybody [TS]

00:23:46   know what the name is somebody tell me [TS]

00:23:48   internally they were referring to it as in Vatika in which it makes me laugh and [TS]

00:23:55   I think it's so true because it feels like two-thirds Helvetica one-third den [TS]

00:24:01   which is for anybody and everybody knows how dan is just capital letters dinr [TS]

00:24:09   know it stands for but it's like a fun from germany it's like I think it I [TS]

00:24:16   think I could be making this up but I think it was created a sort of like a [TS]

00:24:20   fund for signage in Germany at some point and it really does with that's [TS]

00:24:27   what San Francisco looks like it looks like you know two-thirds of medical [TS]

00:24:31   one-third dead and I think it's a very very very pleasant they're really nice [TS]

00:24:36   sounds and [TS]

00:24:38   I had been wondering if it would make its own it's just seemed so natural that [TS]

00:24:43   it would create its very own specialized answer [TS]

00:24:48   and it's beautiful yeah I think one of the things that's so interesting is so [TS]

00:24:56   Microsoft has their own UI phone sex ago single weeks anyway but yeah looks like [TS]

00:25:03   forever but it's you know it's what they used for Metro and all of the modern [TS]

00:25:09   versions of windows and Google has robado which is there fun for Android [TS]

00:25:19   and the use it use it in their iOS apps to its like Google's you I find so [TS]

00:25:25   Microsoft and Google have their own custom funds for user interfaces and [TS]

00:25:30   Apple which is the most to me [TS]

00:25:32   clearly the most design oriented of the major tech corporations has used [TS]

00:25:37   Helvetica which is a great fun but it's funny it always struck me as a little [TS]

00:25:42   ironic that they don't have their own custom is there so designed focused and [TS]

00:25:48   so it's it's been a long time coming in and I'm happy to see what is happening [TS]

00:25:54   it's interesting to me that is that the the kit that you download the design [TS]

00:26:01   design resources has two versions of San Francisco displaying text which is a lot [TS]

00:26:11   of designing funds you know funds use for graphic design come with display in [TS]

00:26:16   text variants where the smaller sizes are called text and then at intended for [TS]

00:26:21   larger sizes you call it display and it changes the kerning and changes some of [TS]

00:26:25   the letter shapes I don't know of any UI fun that's had that distinction before [TS]

00:26:31   right [TS]

00:26:31   yeah don't know did you see there's a thing is that there was somebody has a [TS]

00:26:38   get home project where you can they [TS]

00:26:41   what what kind of there's some kind of hack you can do to the fund files to say [TS]

00:26:46   to set certain bit make it look like the system and then you can run you install [TS]

00:26:52   this version of San Francisco [TS]

00:26:54   and reboot your Mac and Yosemite runs with that as the right yes i did i did [TS]

00:27:02   see that i no i didnt I just thought as some intriguing about it and following [TS]

00:27:06   that that's a cool idea I did it did you how's it going I ran it for a day and I [TS]

00:27:15   at first I was very very excited and I liked it and I kind of had that feeling [TS]

00:27:20   like back in the day like twenty years ago when I would run like system [TS]

00:27:24   extensions that would change the look at the windows and stuff like that you know [TS]

00:27:29   I told he felt very cool about it and there are certain things that are [TS]

00:27:32   definitely nicer about it but overall it's like not quite right it's just a [TS]

00:27:40   little too I don't know there's something about it that doesn't work you [TS]

00:27:48   know it's it's why I know that with the UI version you know the the UI font in [TS]

00:27:55   in Yosemite that it's not just plain Helvetica Neue it's it's like oh yeah [TS]

00:28:00   sweet did you know just to make it better for four you somebody and in [TS]

00:28:09   particular in different sizes and shapes nicer but yes it's like their own [TS]

00:28:14   version but still you know how that it makes me think though that with San [TS]

00:28:18   Francisco that it makes me appreciate the way that they've sweated the details [TS]

00:28:23   to make a nicer as the Mac system and I wouldn't be surprised if in the future [TS]

00:28:29   it is this system font on iOS and Mac too but when if and when that happens [TS]

00:28:37   they're gonna have to put that same amount of work into tweaking it to make [TS]

00:28:42   it perfect for ya was gonna say you know the public to to let you know if if if [TS]

00:28:48   San Francisco as it exists now is made specifically for any Apple watching is [TS]

00:28:52   made for this tiny screen and they haven't really put a lot of work into [TS]

00:28:55   making it you like it you know and the larger sizes that you use when I was [TS]

00:29:02   right there would be no I could see it working mostly [TS]

00:29:07   tweak it but it's not working the system I think it's some weird combination of [TS]

00:29:14   like how many pixels high the font is combined with the physical size like if [TS]

00:29:20   you measure with an actual ruler how big it's going to be when you look at it [TS]

00:29:24   like it's not just like Oh make sixteen-point [TS]

00:29:28   look perfect it's make 16th . font look perfect at quarter of an inch high as [TS]

00:29:36   postal I gotta watch where it's going to be much more fun to watch it seems like [TS]

00:29:42   it's really I don't remember being blown away by it in the presentation and then [TS]

00:29:47   at the event when I actually got to look at the white the actual watches you know [TS]

00:29:51   hands on it looks so i cant wait to actually see what it's like it's been an [TS]

00:30:01   adjustment away from Lucida Grande at first it was strange [TS]

00:30:07   everywhere in and some of the special like the first really silly with iOS as [TS]

00:30:13   well as they're just like it wasn't really working for me at first but now I [TS]

00:30:20   don't know it it's it's working really well as the system on the map [TS]

00:30:24   yeah I definitely i'd like it but it's it's been in the job as somebody who [TS]

00:30:30   obsesses over type it's been an adjustment like chair and you know lucid [TS]

00:30:38   worked loose of a grand grand a dozen other ones since I have no idea [TS]

00:30:44   Lucida Grande do you pronounce the grantee Grande Grande yeah I don't know [TS]

00:30:52   but it would you say at Starbucks inside Grande right yeah you guys have been [TS]

00:30:59   assured that well whatever it's called it it especially worked well at small [TS]

00:31:06   sizes like you know that they hinting work that Apple did and who the people [TS]

00:31:13   who made lucid in the first place [TS]

00:31:14   intending it to be a great screen fun it really really worked well at very small [TS]

00:31:20   sizes like for like when you're setting like like a Preferences dialog and are [TS]

00:31:26   small text underneath the control that explains what that setting you know in [TS]

00:31:30   detail what that setting does loose it works so well at that and whenever I see [TS]

00:31:36   that now in Helvetica on Yosemite sometimes it looks a little bit not that [TS]

00:31:40   it looks bad but it somehow looks it strikes me as a little it just feels [TS]

00:31:45   funny but I'm getting used to it let's let's talk about yosemite so why are as [TS]

00:31:53   a UI designer one what is your overall impression now that we're a couple you [TS]

00:31:57   know he's kind of settled in you know what what are your impressions overall [TS]

00:32:01   life it's everything feels very late and it sort of feels like it's going along [TS]

00:32:08   with like be you know ever-increasing thinness of the actual hardware and just [TS]

00:32:15   sort of like helps everything feel like the best preserved the depth with the [TS]

00:32:19   the drop shadows on all the windows themselves but then having sort of [TS]

00:32:25   translucency vibrancy stuff everywhere it's overkill to me but as a sort of [TS]

00:32:31   adjusted to it I like it feels like everything is is like these nice little [TS]

00:32:36   panes of glass hovering over each other [TS]

00:32:39   you don't think it feels good I really what I really like it was all the really [TS]

00:32:44   small Excel animations that they've everywhere that they're not big in [TS]

00:32:48   flashy and they're not they don't they don't really really so it's like you [TS]

00:32:53   wouldn't really notice it too much for things like checking checkbox just in [TS]

00:32:57   meetings and a nice friendly little way you know just even even things like like [TS]

00:33:03   choosing something from a context menu is just slightly different just a little [TS]

00:33:07   bit more alive a little extreme year that makes sense so I feel like with you [TS]

00:33:13   somebody they've made made it so it you're a little bit more connected to [TS]

00:33:17   the UIF that makes sense after years of touchscreens I'm feeling really [TS]

00:33:24   connected to that I was feeling like with with maverick's even just feeling a [TS]

00:33:28   little setback from america especially mouse trackpad I feel like I feel like [TS]

00:33:35   you use more I feel more connected to it [TS]

00:33:38   yeah I feel like that that's a good point with the animation and I feel like [TS]

00:33:43   it's interesting because clearly the iPhone and iOS where where Apple really [TS]

00:33:50   got into that sort of make things the things you interact with on the device [TS]

00:33:55   feel alive and feel like real names but they didn't do an iOS inspired Mac URI [TS]

00:34:05   until now [TS]

00:34:07   like this ship that whole iOS 126 era in terms of Ike bringing those ideas to the [TS]

00:34:14   Mac and they waited until after I was seven and I i mean you know like the [TS]

00:34:20   textural stuff was definitely leaning over into them a great yeah but not what [TS]

00:34:25   you see but you know I mean yeah I agree you mean like with like the trackpad and [TS]

00:34:29   like with the gestures you can do in the mouse Yeah Yeah right but also there [TS]

00:34:35   were more like textures and things in actual and apps like it was turning to [TS]

00:34:38   take our old texture they said just yea though I [TS]

00:34:44   and I have really enjoyed that I'm really glad that the Magic Mouse and [TS]

00:34:49   trackpad allow so many just a little bit but I don't know I don't know that the [TS]

00:34:54   textures I I think the Mac was going in that way anyway you know that I feel [TS]

00:35:02   like what what what yosemite adds that's new is I could you said where where [TS]

00:35:07   there's subtle animations you know like a pop-up menu and it just grows the menu [TS]

00:35:13   grows out of the the pop up button I it's such a nice looked at a couple [TS]

00:35:20   people have complained to me about that one but I really that's one of the [TS]

00:35:23   things about you somebody that I enjoy really like that animation where the [TS]

00:35:26   menu it grows I don't know how else to say it just grows out of the but when [TS]

00:35:33   you make your selection there's just a little bit more feedback it's just like [TS]

00:35:37   this late little like like flashlights [TS]

00:35:40   senior input into it just feels more likely it's slightly more alive now [TS]

00:35:48   that's it so funny that you made that noise because it doesn't make noise but [TS]

00:35:53   that is what it feels like to do ya like there is that sort of feeling to it do [TS]

00:36:00   you feel though as a designer that is that you have liked to redo everything [TS]

00:36:07   or do you feel that it's not that much work to to get like rogue amoeba zaps [TS]

00:36:15   looking perfect on your sanity is it a restart I live in there is gonna be a [TS]

00:36:22   lot of I mean if we did nothing else is just have to be a lot of Lycra skinning [TS]

00:36:25   everything [TS]

00:36:26   and I don't I don't think we're going to go away we're not going to dive into the [TS]

00:36:31   translucency stuff too much at least not with with the next few apps I don't know [TS]

00:36:41   where we're going to sort of be in the middle of make things look at home [TS]

00:36:45   unless somebody hopefully that's the goal and we make things look at home on [TS]

00:36:51   Sunday but still look Lake our stuff that makes sense and yes I'm not Hong [TS]

00:36:58   into it I feel I feel ya I do I feel because I feel like somehow like going [TS]

00:37:04   from Iowa sixth I was 74 most apps was like you really had to redo the whole [TS]

00:37:10   thing to make it feel whereas going from pre yosemite Mac to yosemite it's really [TS]

00:37:20   to me it's a lot more so I think it's a lot less yeah it's a lot more so it's a [TS]

00:37:26   lot less work it just depends on Europe though when something like fission I [TS]

00:37:31   feel like would would benefit from just a little bit of a skinny but then [TS]

00:37:35   something like piezo which I still love my little recording outfits it's very [TS]

00:37:40   you know it's and cutie in and whimsical so just spent on that happen and how [TS]

00:37:49   much I care far in either direction it already was to begin with I guess and [TS]

00:37:54   some things will take more working on other things less work but [TS]

00:37:59   no I like I feel like piezas a good example though because piezo you know [TS]

00:38:05   and I know that this word gets overused but its school Marvic and iPod just I [TS]

00:38:11   think about it I saw the post but it was like celebrating an anniversary or [TS]

00:38:17   something but it was you know mentioned mentioning the old Braun physical radio [TS]

00:38:24   that sort of inspired and look at it and which is a beautiful device super [TS]

00:38:31   beautiful device I kind of feel like they say the anniversary of us and they [TS]

00:38:38   gave me the brown radio that inspired the use of which was an incredible gift [TS]

00:38:42   I'm just doing that in their house and you know what you know he's kind of a [TS]

00:38:49   dick because he is so awesome [TS]

00:38:52   know the pain the problem is he comes up with clever ideas like that and then it [TS]

00:38:58   makes you know it makes the rest of us who don't have clever gift ideas true [TS]

00:39:02   like my my idea of a good gift would be like a gift card for the iTunes Store [TS]

00:39:08   you go by you know go by the new levels for Monument Valley and whereas [TS]

00:39:17   comes up with a brilliant idea like the actual 1968 radio that inspired piezo [TS]

00:39:24   and then ships which is terrible because it's so it's so wonderful that it's [TS]

00:39:32   terrible because it makes you can talk that and then he's like oh yeah I was [TS]

00:39:36   just donating platelets this week just the nicest guy ever going to die and [TS]

00:39:43   it's too much [TS]

00:39:44   yeah exactly exactly he's giving you a wonderful gift while his other arm like [TS]

00:39:50   from one hand on his phone while the other [TS]

00:39:52   donating platelets terrible but I don't use I do feel though that I can happily [TS]

00:39:59   piezo kids gets away with secure Morphy gimmickry still on Yosemite in a way [TS]

00:40:08   that like on the iPhone with iOS 7 that sort of thing looks dated I don't know [TS]

00:40:14   there's nothing I still feel like I feel like it's just like the Mac is such a [TS]

00:40:21   it's just a much more broad platform insist there's a lot more variation [TS]

00:40:27   between UPS and and so it can still like I've been using it this whole time and [TS]

00:40:33   it's still a cutie for me and so sort of like with it but that's me with every [TS]

00:40:40   single thing I designed like you know if it's over three months old but I feel [TS]

00:40:47   like they can still get home on your toes [TS]

00:40:52   anything that's that's super textured in detail like that on iOS it just yet just [TS]

00:40:58   looks like iOS 6 and it looks really out of place [TS]

00:41:01   yeah it's it's funny because there's so many more iOS users than Mac users you [TS]

00:41:08   know maybe by inspectors 10 at least but it seems it just seems curious to me [TS]

00:41:14   that iOS is where Apple seems to be more radical with their UI design where the [TS]

00:41:22   pre Iowa seven UI aesthetic for iOS was way more school marching and more [TS]

00:41:28   textured and had more oh this is this looks like a pane of glass with a glossy [TS]

00:41:34   you no effect on it and it's bubbly and its textured [TS]

00:41:39   and the texture is really really rich way more over the top then the Mac ever [TS]

00:41:45   God and then when they went the other way they went way more radically in the [TS]

00:41:50   direction of ok no textures no 3d effects this is Dino again it's overused [TS]

00:41:56   word but this is flat [TS]

00:41:58   you know the buttons don't even have outlines they're just taxed and the Mac [TS]

00:42:08   both ways it never it's way more conservative to me it never went that [TS]

00:42:14   texture and now with yosemite where they've sort of updated it for a modern [TS]

00:42:18   look it's it's nowhere near as radical as I was seven and I think it's more [TS]

00:42:23   pleasing overall definitely and I think they really benefited from having you [TS]

00:42:28   know down iOS 7 you know before you somebody and so they sort of this is my [TS]

00:42:34   fault injection just guessing on the day they had all of that experience ok let's [TS]

00:42:41   I think the pendulum has swung too far in that direction like that let's get [TS]

00:42:45   let's strip everything down to really really minimalist design is like ok well [TS]

00:42:49   maybe that was a little too far and then you somebody feels like just just [TS]

00:42:53   nudging it back just far enough so that it's comfortable [TS]

00:42:57   buttons buttons and there are slight radiance here in there and I think it [TS]

00:43:05   when I think it works and in some ways better and I think that's why it feels [TS]

00:43:09   more accommodating to a broader range of styles that it's still in like I said I [TS]

00:43:17   could still feels like a system where piezo as it is without any kind of you [TS]

00:43:22   know a news update [TS]

00:43:23   still looks it still looks right it still looks like that's you know [TS]

00:43:27   acceptable [TS]

00:43:28   yeah I thought it was interesting I that's sort of you know [TS]

00:43:36   I think I've touched on this before but before they unveiled yosemite and [TS]

00:43:40   everybody kind of knew of course they're going to do some sort of I was seven [TS]

00:43:45   style update for the Mac I really was braced for it to be a lot more radical I [TS]

00:43:51   really thought that they were going to flatten everything more you know like [TS]

00:43:55   and like you even said like where they still have the shadow effects between [TS]

00:43:58   windows to show you what's in front of that maybe they get rid of stuff like [TS]

00:44:01   that [TS]

00:44:02   yeah me too yeah and they didn't and it even really surprises me that they still [TS]

00:44:09   have so many settings in System Preferences that let you the user you [TS]

00:44:16   know change things like I kind of a year ago that I was seven style update to Mac [TS]

00:44:25   OS would have gotten rid of like the ability to change the appearance color [TS]

00:44:31   you know like blue graphic between yeah right then you can go it's it's [TS]

00:44:37   interesting that provided the dark sheen to it sort of came out of nowhere [TS]

00:44:41   because it's just seems very counter to what Apple's done for the last few years [TS]

00:44:47   just just not only much appearance you know specialization customization so [TS]

00:44:53   having the secondary and in person and we're talking about the be reduced [TS]

00:45:01   transparency and increase contrast well I don't know it's not really a hackneyed [TS]

00:45:06   accessibility preferences that you can do to change the whole look as as like [TS]

00:45:11   as a thing people are doing to sort of customize the look themselves which is [TS]

00:45:17   which is fun you know I did that for ya so what it is is in System Preferences [TS]

00:45:23   if you haven't done this and System Preferences go tonight it's not in the [TS]

00:45:27   general pain that most of the UI stuff its inaccessibility [TS]

00:45:31   accessibility [TS]

00:45:33   and you you can check reduced transparency and then you can also check [TS]

00:45:38   increase contrast and increased to increase increase contrast is the really [TS]

00:45:44   interesting one [TS]

00:45:44   yes meet you actually if you if you select increased contrast it [TS]

00:45:49   automatically selects yes yes and it's it's kind of like you and I before the [TS]

00:46:02   show we were emailing or chatting or whatever whatever the kids do but we [TS]

00:46:08   both said the same thing at the same time which is that it looks sort of like [TS]

00:46:13   a like some kind of alternate universe where the original white nineteen [TS]

00:46:18   nineties Mac OS like evolved through to today's display technology [TS]

00:46:26   you know that just completely literally like you know what blue never happened [TS]

00:46:30   like there is nothing ever like big interfere whimsical anywhere just sort [TS]

00:46:34   of like stayed with the you know dark outlines round buttons and things are [TS]

00:46:38   sort of got more streamlined and sleek assertive and in my system change from [TS]

00:46:45   Chicago to health advocates say yes so interesting to see you though and it's [TS]

00:46:51   it's actually really pleasantly really enjoyed having that preferences time [TS]

00:46:54   there I used it for a while maybe even close to a week and then they changed [TS]

00:46:59   turned it off and now now that we're talking i didnt again I really liked it [TS]

00:47:06   and she said your desktop background till like a dark grey [TS]

00:47:10   yeah it just feels like an old methods for me it's a really need effect and and [TS]

00:47:16   everybody does I get it on Twitter like every three days from somebody [TS]

00:47:22   what is when you do things like what are the ways you can give you change the [TS]

00:47:29   volume yeah if you if you use your volume than like Thursday that icon [TS]

00:47:35   assertive I guess it has claimed pixels and it just gives a black background [TS]

00:47:40   rather should just be playing pixels [TS]

00:47:43   what happened there yeah it's like when you say there's like goofy little things [TS]

00:47:47   like that there's a few like sometimes find about answering like save dialog [TS]

00:47:53   click the buttons will be like this you when there when you're in this mode and [TS]

00:47:57   are not sure why that happens but now it's just there's a few little things [TS]

00:48:01   that happen [TS]

00:48:02   yeah there's like it just a couple of weird glitches it i mean they're [TS]

00:48:06   technically bug ya but it feels like a better word yeah it's like when you [TS]

00:48:13   change the volume it's like the little I don't know what you would call it is [TS]

00:48:19   like the little transparent heads up display that shows you what the volume [TS]

00:48:24   level is at as you're hitting the buttons on their your keyboard has round [TS]

00:48:29   rounded corners and it's like when you turn this mode on they get completely [TS]

00:48:35   squared off in two perfect squares but the difference between the round right [TS]

00:48:39   corners and the truly perfect squares is just filled in with black and it looks [TS]

00:48:43   really really congress just it's gross its gross let's face it looks like your [TS]

00:48:52   Mac is looking at you and has something in its teeth in your you want to like [TS]

00:48:55   say you want to just look at him he liked it it upsets the perfectionist in [TS]

00:49:06   me but overall though I kind of think it's a better look than the default [TS]

00:49:10   yosemite look which I which in turn I do kind of like but I feel like this is [TS]

00:49:16   even better [TS]

00:49:16   yeah it's it's really clean and everything is like super obvious which I [TS]

00:49:24   like and and and things just really stand out well in the [TS]

00:49:27   you know and like the higher contrast space I meant so I mean it's just one [TS]

00:49:34   random little things unrelated to most everything else but what the only thing [TS]

00:49:38   that bugs me the most and such and such a stupid thing is like the the forward [TS]

00:49:42   and back buttons inspiring and find out just what those navigational buttons [TS]

00:49:46   used to be segmented button you know it's like to be used to be triangles [TS]

00:49:53   like left and right carrots but anyway they're like very close together and [TS]

00:50:00   their rounded rectangles and they just don't quite touch and bugs me so much [TS]

00:50:04   and they kind of but now I know exactly what you mean is that they also sort of [TS]

00:50:11   in in the middle where they meet there's there's like a little like a buttcrack [TS]

00:50:15   yes they're not they're not yet still have their rounded rectangle engines [TS]

00:50:23   like just meeting up in a weird way why isn't that a segment but what happened [TS]

00:50:29   right it used to just put them slightly further apart or just make it a [TS]

00:50:34   segmented [TS]

00:50:34   exactly like they've they've tried this with the difference in a weird way where [TS]

00:50:39   it doesn't look like again and again that I think that's the actual like [TS]

00:50:43   that's actually what you call it an Xcode is segmented button but that's [TS]

00:50:48   what it used to look like it just looked like a button with segment two divided [TS]

00:50:53   whereas now it looks like two buttons that were inappropriately touched place [TS]

00:50:59   right next to each other [TS]

00:51:00   yes so much anyway and yeah I told her that I don't I don't like that it's like [TS]

00:51:11   a plumber's butt crack that you see at the top and bothers me let me thank our [TS]

00:51:19   second sponsor take a break and then I want to ask you about remind me because [TS]

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00:54:40   you see their stuff that you'll sign up for my thanks to lynda.com for [TS]

00:54:44   sponsoring show icons let's talk about icons like so that's one of the areas I [TS]

00:54:53   get mentioned before where I sort of expected yosemite to go in an eyeless I [TS]

00:54:59   West I away where I kind of was thinking that they're going to say okay now all [TS]

00:55:04   icons have to be circles or something like that yeah no I'm so glad they [TS]

00:55:11   didn't i mean there there are plenty of circles around the eye but I'm so happy [TS]

00:55:15   that they're still using objects in a lot of places I mean that they do still [TS]

00:55:21   and they are using little circles and a lot of like the Tilted rectangle [TS]

00:55:26   basically stuck with a lot of you know objects or representational more [TS]

00:55:33   representation of things and just made been in sort of a pared-down simplified [TS]

00:55:37   style so that they sort of look you somebody but they're still sort of fun [TS]

00:55:41   shapes and they're not all do not own one ship that's [TS]

00:55:44   makes me happy yeah it makes me when when when they showed it to us and you [TS]

00:55:51   know one of the things I noticed was Reno even in the air like the fault [TS]

00:55:56   Apple dock when you have a fresh install of yosemite there's a variety of icon [TS]

00:56:01   styles so you can see right away that there's no just one style and I you know [TS]

00:56:07   right that's great I was told the wrong about that and then I started I question [TS]

00:56:11   myself why did I think they were gonna do that like I kind of fun you know why [TS]

00:56:16   why did I expect that because it makes me think like of course they wouldn't do [TS]

00:56:22   that because it wouldn't work on the back but it somehow I was dreading it [TS]

00:56:25   and expect them to do that well that's sort of far fetched because I could see [TS]

00:56:35   them making sense but I'm so glad that but that's not the way things went [TS]

00:56:38   because having a doctor love circles would be really knowing you have to use [TS]

00:56:43   you know you have to really use color very clear very simple cheap inside of [TS]

00:56:51   your circle to identify happen [TS]

00:56:54   yeah I think it would just be really sort of Blanton and kind of annoying to [TS]

00:56:59   sort of figure out what is what evidence they be kept up to the idea of different [TS]

00:57:07   shapes and using a lot of physical objects but just just turn every skin [TS]

00:57:12   them and there's a lot more texture and depth to them even again even just the [TS]

00:57:18   ones from Apple third parties who can do whatever they want but even the Apple [TS]

00:57:22   ones have more texture and depth icon died less by far yeah you know so much [TS]

00:57:28   its yeah it's great but it's still it's definitely pared down and less than [TS]

00:57:36   previous factors like I was actually just come in Florida visiting my mom and [TS]

00:57:41   she still running metrics and yeah I was really just sort of like these shifts [TS]

00:57:48   shiny like just you know given that icons just total makeover so that [TS]

00:57:54   everything is more met [TS]

00:57:56   just tweaking the colors in the lighting and sort of letting things out [TS]

00:58:05   perspective on the rectangles are still think it's it's it's a good compromise I [TS]

00:58:14   think I still have one of my machines used to record podcast is still running [TS]

00:58:20   Mavericks associate's MacBook Air and it like increasingly as a week-by-week it [TS]

00:58:29   just looks like older and older and older looks it looks silly at this point [TS]

00:58:33   in particular to me the icons really really stand out like like the Finder [TS]

00:58:42   icon it's like wow yeah I don't know why they make it look like it's made up I [TS]

00:58:50   don't get it like there still is a lighting effect on the new one in [TS]

00:58:54   Yosemite there's a very nice lighting effects like there's light coming down [TS]

00:58:57   from the top [TS]

00:58:58   it has texture it has depth but the 1 I'm looking at them side by side right [TS]

00:59:04   now it's like the average one has this glass effect that just looks so i cant [TS]

00:59:11   say better than blaming planes exact right word yeah and it's like why why [TS]

00:59:16   did we do that it's like looking back at like high school pictures and it's like [TS]

00:59:20   why did I have a moment why did we think that looked at it the other one that [TS]

00:59:25   really stands out to me is the App Store icon and iTunes use the same but like [TS]

00:59:34   iTunes has the Yosemite I can't even a system like the App Store icon is this [TS]

00:59:39   circle you know with just an incredible amount of like glass in class sort of [TS]

00:59:47   like how ya like this [TS]

00:59:52   yeah yeah the old one was over this late and sort of in depth to it and the new [TS]

00:59:59   one is just like you know social gradient iconic you know just generic [TS]

01:00:06   application yeah change to you when you guys are working on apps do you do you [TS]

01:00:13   get to work on the Apple icon right away or do you wait and you know that's [TS]

01:00:17   something we do later in the process it just depends on the app already working [TS]

01:00:23   on a new app to talk about maybe I can you know pretty much decided like this [TS]

01:00:28   is the final version of the icon I think it just depends on where where [TS]

01:00:34   developers are sort of like we go through wire frames and we get things [TS]

01:00:38   pretty much where we think they should be and then there's a lot more back in [TS]

01:00:43   work and then it sort of like ok well here's the thing that I can do in the [TS]

01:00:46   meantime we have a lot of absentee owners some sort of always rooting [TS]

01:00:51   around what I'm working on but it just depends on the app at which point [TS]

01:00:55   there's not a hard-and-fast time that we can always change it later but I find [TS]

01:01:03   with most designers who are no they they they can't stand working on a nap until [TS]

01:01:07   they have something that could plausibly be the app icon you know like me so much [TS]

01:01:14   when there's just like some placeholder art at least you know something like [TS]

01:01:23   this may be a right like in other words the best way to get some sort of [TS]

01:01:29   plausible app icon idea out of you would be to make a have engineering creative [TS]

01:01:36   build the icon is just like you know some clipart from the internet [TS]

01:01:42   cause it'll get there as soon as you see it you'll be like I need to immediately [TS]

01:01:46   drop everything and make something so that the next bills I'm so not allowed [TS]

01:01:51   to do that [TS]

01:01:52   yeah to get that is exactly what I would do and then so you have to sort of be [TS]

01:02:00   reined in the icon right now you know play through the things you need to do [TS]

01:02:05   we really need this sign up dialogue done because we can't use the app until [TS]

01:02:11   we have a sign up that I've got to know I have to fix it [TS]

01:02:16   yeah there's a lot of prioritizing like we often ship have different priorities [TS]

01:02:25   as far as work on the morning Network Preferences window you know but that's [TS]

01:02:35   that's how I don't know I cons to me it's it's funny because I i've always [TS]

01:02:43   said this thing people argue about icons more than any other thing in software [TS]

01:02:49   design I don't say user interfaces because it's the one that even if you're [TS]

01:02:58   not a designer it's just a single point of entry and it represents the whole lab [TS]

01:03:03   so it is important and yet you identify the Apatow when you're just switching [TS]

01:03:10   back and forth between apps quickly at-a-glance he reminds users have lunch [TS]

01:03:18   and so it's definitely important but it's truly as important as the amount of [TS]

01:03:24   argument that happens over changes to icons like people are still scared about [TS]

01:03:32   the new icons in Yosemite because you can't please everybody all the time [TS]

01:03:37   sure so I think the icons overall I think they look much better but like for [TS]

01:03:43   example years I like most of what here's one that I don't like I don't like the [TS]

01:03:47   System Preferences icon [TS]

01:03:49   it's sort of and it's it's got like two strong the lighting effect and to [TS]

01:03:57   realistic of the gear it's like super photo Rick it doesn't fit with it [TS]

01:04:03   doesn't fit with each other's yeah it somehow I don't know it looks to me it [TS]

01:04:09   looks like other great especially with the green that's just looks very like [TS]

01:04:14   it's kind of like between the subtle gradients on everything else and then [TS]

01:04:20   like trying to go more photorealistic it's so realistic enough to be like the [TS]

01:04:24   old blingy style but it's more realistic than the other ingredients used [TS]

01:04:30   elsewhere and other phones and so yeah it's just kind of weird and I'm just [TS]

01:04:35   like having it being just like being in a circle in a box like that gray out of [TS]

01:04:40   boxes very plant in dearborn yeah yeah yeah and I the only thing I dislike is [TS]

01:04:45   this better than the one on iOS but that's interesting I like the new [TS]

01:04:54   support to you yeah I do I don't know what I did but I also wish that it was [TS]

01:05:02   on iOS I wish the day would yeah I guess it sort of is reminiscent of the one on [TS]

01:05:10   iOS but this one is that the iOS one is is a circle and they've just put the [TS]

01:05:19   Circle in the Square they're technically they're super ellipses yes yes [TS]

01:05:34   it was like they wanted to be so I don't know why not just make the compass be [TS]

01:05:40   the super relapse you know make the whole thing blew and put the compass [TS]

01:05:46   dial on that why put the Circle in the Square it seems seems forced to me into [TS]

01:05:54   the lighting effects in the coloring in the gradient on the one on Damascus is [TS]

01:05:59   nicer [TS]

01:06:01   sharper cleaner but it's really wasn't the old [TS]

01:06:07   Safari icon on iOS to fill the entire rounded rectangle at that point I think [TS]

01:06:14   so i think that it did you make more than they do you know the the circle [TS]

01:06:21   inside this work was underweight square saying it doesn't really do anything or [TS]

01:06:26   make any sense just courses that the entire icon to be sort of smaller so [TS]

01:06:32   yeah I'm looking at an old screenshot from I was six and yes the old Safari [TS]

01:06:41   icon to hold the blue felt the whole square right yeah I feel like all they [TS]

01:06:46   need to do is just redraw do it the same way industry Dr without just just yeah [TS]

01:06:52   yeah exactly just make it map make it a need to do but here we are just seems to [TS]

01:07:02   me that people people bitch about icons and icon but like you like people bitch [TS]

01:07:12   about them [TS]

01:07:13   disproportionately 22 how much they actually have to deal with them because [TS]

01:07:17   it's so easily encapsulated you know it's it's designer it's the same thing [TS]

01:07:26   when you ever you pick color and it's likely you'll get into arguments with [TS]

01:07:30   you know whether it's like a client relationship or whether it's like you [TS]

01:07:35   know like with you I wear your fault I'm at a place but I think you can get an [TS]

01:07:40   argument over color [TS]

01:07:41   that will last for hours because it's so easily in comp you know there's there's [TS]

01:07:47   no subtlety to it you can just say I don't like that color and then all of a [TS]

01:07:50   sudden you know two people are jointly using the color picker to pick a new [TS]

01:07:57   color and it just goes on icon yes yes and everyone has a very strong opinion [TS]

01:08:04   about them but there's no one there is no one who doesn't want to lay in [TS]

01:08:09   whereas you know you're designing a sidebar something like that people are [TS]

01:08:14   less interested I guess but everyone wants to get their input when it's not [TS]

01:08:19   found any nineteen makes sense because it is you know the gateway to the app [TS]

01:08:24   and the thing that represents the opposite holds it is really important [TS]

01:08:28   thing and it tends to be more fun and more interesting think so people just [TS]

01:08:33   jump on that [TS]

01:08:34   yeah it's like with us IQ designing a sidebar and you need like a gear button [TS]

01:08:39   to get to see you know settings for the sidebar and lower right lower left hand [TS]

01:08:47   and if you put it in lower right of the sidebar and somebody things should be [TS]

01:08:51   lower left don't just say like gently like I don't know maybe this and if it's [TS]

01:08:56   right it feels like maybe more natural more natural if it was in the lower left [TS]

01:09:00   and I'll say it like an open-ended question like that whereas if they don't [TS]

01:09:04   like the iconic be like this icon terrible [TS]

01:09:07   thank you you don't get like this sort of [TS]

01:09:15   of you know maybe kind of do something different feedback with icons that you [TS]

01:09:21   get with other things like should have been lower left lower right should we [TS]

01:09:24   drop box around these controls because their group together you know things [TS]

01:09:29   like that everybody sort of does that you no more I don't know the feedback is [TS]

01:09:36   always a little bit more humane with stuff like that [TS]

01:09:39   yeah definitely very very passionate about their icons 01 thing about items [TS]

01:09:48   and then this isn't it is not about icon design but just one little thing about [TS]

01:09:53   you send me that I'm kind of sad about is when you drag and i cant out of the [TS]

01:09:57   docket doesn't do the little proof animation anymore but you still have the [TS]

01:10:01   proof because but instead it just has removed there's a little popup that [TS]

01:10:05   hovers over this is removed and then you dragged away and it does sound we don't [TS]

01:10:09   get that little like smoke inhalation [TS]

01:10:12   you know and that's all that i dont think that I'm doing it right now I [TS]

01:10:19   don't think I removed anything from my dog until just now I just noticed this [TS]

01:10:24   weird remove yeah yeah it's just a little I mean maybe it's more obvious [TS]

01:10:30   because the smoke was whimsical they could have made it in the kind of [TS]

01:10:35   changed it so I don't know I like I do like they can get the little bit like [TS]

01:10:45   the little by little sparkly surround a new app that you haven't lunch yes like [TS]

01:10:52   little likes it would be overkill if it was like on it and everything but just a [TS]

01:10:58   little hint it takes to keep things like that but it's yet but it's funny that [TS]

01:11:03   you still get the little comfort you don't have the information anymore [TS]

01:11:06   yeah and it's a good contrast to this Barclays and launched under my eye to [TS]

01:11:13   feel like with launch center like somebody made that animation like I [TS]

01:11:19   don't think its new I think it's exactly the same sparkly animation that was [TS]

01:11:22   there before yosemite [TS]

01:11:24   maybe they'd be tweaked it but it looks very similar to me I can't help but [TS]

01:11:28   think that there was somebody who made and they loved it and then yes you know [TS]

01:11:33   we're gonna do this you know we're going to redesign the whole OS you know for [TS]

01:11:37   ten point and then we're going to flatten everything we're gonna get rid [TS]

01:11:40   of all the stuff and then they like secretly were like oh god please to [TS]

01:11:44   comfort us partly please don't come here you know nobody nobody ever like filed [TS]

01:11:50   the radar like this weird thing and they're like sure frankly think it does [TS]

01:11:59   I liked it is there but it does kind of stick out I think yeah yeah it just [TS]

01:12:04   doesn't really fit but its I still just like it and it works because it's sort [TS]

01:12:09   of like a 10 it's just a random rare thing like it's not you know there [TS]

01:12:14   aren't things like that all over the POS so it's fine it just happens in that one [TS]

01:12:19   place and it's my little the obvious thing to do would be to copy the Iowa [TS]

01:12:27   style just put a blue dot next to the apt name if it's updated so boring it is [TS]

01:12:35   and it's it's just one of those funny things though we're like overall like I [TS]

01:12:41   said you know that overall the Mac is more to me more conservative you I was [TS]

01:12:46   then I West but like the spark movies and launch center is in no way blaming [TS]

01:12:54   like way more bling out in the last hour for sure yeah but it just in that one [TS]

01:13:01   place in the rest of it doesn't look like the rest of it you know it's in [TS]

01:13:04   fine like the iComfort sinn fein you get this you know I seen a frosted glass [TS]

01:13:11   effect over your of your background then search for everything else looks like it [TS]

01:13:16   but then you get the little sparkly [TS]

01:13:22   this is and this is one of those things to that I wondered about and I maybe [TS]

01:13:27   it'll never happen but i speaking of senator I sort of expected that when [TS]

01:13:37   Apple eventually did the ok let's do a major redesign of hours 10 that I [TS]

01:13:43   expected that the Finder would be replaced with launch center as the sort [TS]

01:13:48   of like starting point of the OS when you first log in with nothing launched I [TS]

01:13:54   thought that they would switch to launch center which is you know it's it's [TS]

01:13:59   pretty much the Mac version of the island home screen that they went that [TS]

01:14:05   they might do that but it makes sense now that you mention it would be an [TS]

01:14:11   analogy to to the home screen to be just out there well and I think I wonder and [TS]

01:14:17   I just one of those things where I would love to I would love to just find out [TS]

01:14:21   inside scoop as to whether they thought about it or not but never talked about [TS]

01:14:26   it but I wonder how much how I wonder how much of it is that you know maybe [TS]

01:14:32   they would like to and if the Mac was a brand new thing that's exactly what they [TS]

01:14:35   would do but they can't do it so many people save all their crap to the [TS]

01:14:41   desktop and the desktop [TS]

01:14:43   be there because they're so loaded with all the files and random stuff right [TS]

01:14:48   because you know for everybody who is technically adept enough to know that [TS]

01:14:54   the desktop is really just a folder in your home folder you know [TS]

01:15:00   there's other people who if they logged in and they saw nothing but apps they [TS]

01:15:05   would think I'm I got all my files on my desktop gone over 800 people would freak [TS]

01:15:10   out and share I don't know I can't help but think that that might be the only [TS]

01:15:13   thing that's keeping them from doing it I don't know I would be interesting to [TS]

01:15:19   see if any if anything's which is more towards that sort of moves in that [TS]

01:15:23   direction but the difference in the future do you save files to your desktop [TS]

01:15:29   or is it or is it my desktop right now has seven things on it and it's [TS]

01:15:36   temporary things I tend not to leave a member too long it's a sort of something [TS]

01:15:40   like I need to follow up on this thing and I'm gonna leave it on my desk I sort [TS]

01:15:46   of go through and and clean things up and I don't think anything here is but [TS]

01:15:54   yes it's clean but it's not littered with with things either and it's all [TS]

01:16:00   things are sort of a temporary nature that I don't like things like they're [TS]

01:16:03   all deleted right now it wouldn't be a big deal I was about to say that I keep [TS]

01:16:08   a very need to stop and looked and I had to open a window to get the county of 25 [TS]

01:16:12   items my desktop so it's not need it all but I do the same thing know where it's [TS]

01:16:18   I think everything is pretty recent dates I'm sorting by date and the oldest [TS]

01:16:25   thing is from October 15 so everything is from the last month and I do and then [TS]

01:16:31   I'll get in like my physical office my real world this the room that a man has [TS]

01:16:37   ever recorded right now is a mess it's like Andy Rooney's office its papers and [TS]

01:16:43   books in boxes and stuff but I do I keep a new computer and a 12 month or so I [TS]

01:16:48   just like get everything off yeah exactly the sort of cleanup [TS]

01:16:55   bugs me after while having too much stuff there [TS]

01:17:00   yeah it's like I feel like if my office is a massively to my computer can be [TS]

01:17:05   need and it's so it seems so much easier to clean up your desktop than it is to [TS]

01:17:10   clean my room so I do but it always blows me away when there's when I see [TS]

01:17:18   people who have like seriously like a hundred 200 things on their desktop like [TS]

01:17:23   everything they've ever done right about things like my OCD I noticed though I [TS]

01:17:38   did notice that so Jonas is 10 he's starting to use a Mac way more than he [TS]

01:17:46   used to use to really just use like I was devices [TS]

01:17:49   homework and stuff like that and without me ever like I never really liked never [TS]

01:17:57   really sat down and showed him I here's how do you just let them figure out on [TS]

01:18:02   so he just naturally saves files to the desktop all of these files are an [TS]

01:18:08   interesting notes and stuff like that plan crafted so I thought that was [TS]

01:18:16   pretty interesting because I kind of wondered whether that was like an [TS]

01:18:19   old-school Mac habit like from the old days that people have carried over or [TS]

01:18:23   you know did like would somebody like him you know really you know really only [TS]

01:18:28   started using a Mac and the last year or two with a with a naturally do that and [TS]

01:18:35   he does he does save stuff to just naturally just saves files to the [TS]

01:18:38   desktop I don't know why that is surprising instead of any service and [TS]

01:18:44   just thinking like if you [TS]

01:18:45   for the first time and you gotta save dialog for the first time you know [TS]

01:18:50   there's a default directory called documents I would imagine that people [TS]

01:18:55   would say things to their documents folder [TS]

01:18:58   well I'm not sure I wonder if it's because the desktop is like the one [TS]

01:19:09   place where I know that you can you know you can change the view options for any [TS]

01:19:14   window in the Finder to mister column icon but it's the one place that always [TS]

01:19:20   icon view and you can arrange things spatially and say I've got this file and [TS]

01:19:26   I wanted over here on the left is going to be on the left and you drag it over [TS]

01:19:29   there and it stays there as opposed to be that's my that's my hunch but I [TS]

01:19:35   haven't haven't asked him you know me taking another break here and thank our [TS]

01:19:45   third sponsor the show that our good friends at igloo igloo is the internet [TS]

01:19:52   that doesn't suck my slow they call themselves the internet that you'll [TS]

01:19:57   actually like intranet are typically ugly the badly designed and the people [TS]

01:20:05   on your team your company they typically a windup avoiding them and just email [TS]

01:20:10   each other back and forth in San file attachments and they just use email for [TS]

01:20:13   everything [TS]

01:20:13   igloo is totally different [TS]

01:20:17   it's the internet you actually like and you get all sorts of cool features they [TS]

01:20:21   have a Twitter like micro blog so imagine like a version of Twitter that [TS]

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01:20:28   internal totally private just for your team they have that they have [TS]

01:20:35   file-sharing you can put comments on everything and the design of the [TS]

01:20:41   internet of your in glue can match your brand and it matches across all devices [TS]

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01:20:50   responsive so everything looks good iPad looks good on your phone [TS]

01:20:54   good on your retina five came back easy to use easy to set up and it requires no [TS]

01:21:02   technical expertise at all to set it up they have a sandwich video for those of [TS]

01:21:11   you who don't know thats Adam resource companies funny funny video that shows [TS]

01:21:15   exactly what's different about include compared to everything else and other [TS]

01:21:19   types of Internet go to their website and check it out and you can see this [TS]

01:21:25   cool video and here's the best part a glue is free to use for up to 10 people [TS]

01:21:32   not for a month just perpetuity [TS]

01:21:35   so if your team is 10 or fewer people you can sign pretty blue and just use it [TS]

01:21:41   and you never use it if your team is bigger than 10 people you can try it for [TS]

01:21:48   free no credit card just sign up [TS]

01:21:51   try it and have 10 people use it to test it and see if it everything I say about [TS]

01:21:56   it is true and then once you decide to use it you paid its really really low [TS]

01:22:01   price per user after 10 people I don't even possible that if you're up to 10 [TS]

01:22:07   people you know just user for free so curious at all why not try it why not [TS]

01:22:13   check it out because it just go sign up and tried it's free [TS]

01:22:18   really really cool here's where you go go to www.quikr.com / the talk show it [TS]

01:22:28   grew software dot com slash the talk show and don't know you came from here [TS]

01:22:32   you might think state [TS]

01:22:37   the other week I had Merlin Merlin Mann on the show and this is what we call [TS]

01:22:46   follow-up I guess you're supposed to be the beginning of the podcast but I [TS]

01:22:49   forgot I have no here we're talking about Roman numerals and what a pain in [TS]

01:22:54   the ass it is with the Super Bowl because it's like xxx be something [TS]

01:22:59   something and you never know what super abilities and I said that when they had [TS]

01:23:05   Super Bowl 50 which would be super bowl well that they should have that's when [TS]

01:23:10   they should have dropped the Roman numerals stick and yes well it turns out [TS]

01:23:16   Super Bowl 50 hasn't happened in its next year [TS]

01:23:22   next year's Super Bowl 50 it's gonna be in San Francisco and they've already [TS]

01:23:27   announced that that's exactly what they're going to do they're gonna drop [TS]

01:23:31   the Roman numeral stick and it's just super bowl 50 50 so nice because I think [TS]

01:23:40   that's so much better and not nice because five minutes on the podcast two [TS]

01:23:45   weeks ago saying complained they should have done a couple years ago when Super [TS]

01:23:50   Bowl food but it hasn't happened so let me get that out there because I keep [TS]

01:23:54   getting emails from people saying dude Super Bowl fifties next year and they're [TS]

01:23:58   doing exactly what I can't take any credit for it well before the show so [TS]

01:24:06   they got that right [TS]

01:24:08   here's a question for you ok with the watch kit SDK that Apple released this [TS]

01:24:16   week Apple included what they called [TS]

01:24:20   design resources something like that the thing that came out fine but it also [TS]

01:24:23   came with a bunch of PSD files Photoshop files for both software layouts and [TS]

01:24:32   things like it's like a typographic grid that shows you all of the types sizes [TS]

01:24:37   and not specified by like a number like saying oh gimme sixteen-point fine it's [TS]

01:24:45   like give me caption give me headline give me a hard time yeah we have all of [TS]

01:24:52   those sort of styles established in there that really want you to stick with [TS]

01:24:56   their self-styled right well the idea behind right and using those styles [TS]

01:25:02   means that you don't have to worry about the difference in physical size between [TS]

01:25:06   the 30 8mm watching them yes that's right [TS]

01:25:11   presumably maybe next year two years from now maybe they'll be a 44 [TS]

01:25:14   millimeter wide maybe there will be a 36 million and your your stuff all just [TS]

01:25:19   work because it's all relative sizes and stuff like that which i think is [TS]

01:25:24   probably the way to go I think it's you know yeah I think and yeah that's smart [TS]

01:25:31   way to set about from the outside here's my question of my question is I thought [TS]

01:25:36   it was so interesting that they shipped all these things as PSD files do you do [TS]

01:25:40   you as a designer do you do you do a lot of work in Photoshop oh yes every yeah [TS]

01:25:45   that's that's mostly use [TS]

01:25:48   yeah they're just really isn't anything that's like more versatile or better for [TS]

01:25:56   doing what I do not yet anyway so I spent I spent a lot of time in Photoshop [TS]

01:26:01   I thought that was so interesting to me like a concession that Photoshop is the [TS]

01:26:07   defacto standard UI design great yeah I think it's sort of industry-standard but [TS]

01:26:15   it's interesting and it's funny but they do that with the state faces because [TS]

01:26:19   just the way that Photoshop printers Texas terrible [TS]

01:26:24   and especially compared to the way but just reduce its you have these different [TS]

01:26:32   you know if you can you can change the display of take place from like Chris [TS]

01:26:39   too strong to small changes things a little bit and sometimes it works and [TS]

01:26:44   sometimes it doesn't [TS]

01:26:45   everything just read so much more clearly if it's if it's rendered [TS]

01:26:48   programmatically rather than through Photoshop psd yeah with work on Vesper [TS]

01:26:56   with whiskas he does everything and he's you know total Photoshop die hard like [TS]

01:27:02   again like me doing what he's eight hours a day in Photoshop and I have [TS]

01:27:07   always refrained from complaining about the way type looks because I know that [TS]

01:27:11   it's not like that yeah the same rendering its like text is affectively [TS]

01:27:18   like for placement only like here's how much space it will take up wait until [TS]

01:27:23   the app is actually a nap and then bitch about the type have you heard of this [TS]

01:27:28   app sketch know when i when i i twittered that pointing out that you [TS]

01:27:40   know that Apple shipped all these things as Photoshop things and that is the [TS]

01:27:44   defacto standard and I got all these people saying that no everybody's using [TS]

01:27:49   sketch these days to do to DUI design and it looks like a call at I've never [TS]

01:27:56   used it but now on their website I think like someone is linked to it before and [TS]

01:28:03   I just haven't really given at the time of day [TS]

01:28:05   to check out for sure but I look into your design and prototyping tools things [TS]

01:28:14   like that and they use them like supplemental I don't know i'm just still [TS]

01:28:19   live in Photoshop for most of the time now and and you like super complex like [TS]

01:28:26   layers and yeah well just tons and tons of groups that I don't often are [TS]

01:28:32   different views and different states within a few so yeah it's pretty [TS]

01:28:39   complicated it's like one of my favorite things I don't really use Photoshop [TS]

01:28:43   anymore personally but I like to watch somebody who's really good at Photoshop [TS]

01:28:46   use Photoshop and then they quickly through and they have all these groups [TS]

01:28:50   and all of a sudden what you're looking at on screen is like totally different I [TS]

01:28:55   love Christian Morgan thank you thank you so much for coming back is been [TS]

01:29:01   talking so much for having me know it's alright people can see your work at [TS]

01:29:07   Rogue Amoeba and all of their great apps program ebay.com where you work with a [TS]

01:29:15   bunch of cool people and I came back I and on Twitter they can't see you what's [TS]

01:29:23   your Twitter username anti Christian and Antichrist exactly it's funny I always [TS]

01:29:33   forget what people's names but they should check you out there and pretty [TS]

01:29:42   good pretty good at my Twitter account is terrible i i'd i'd that's where the [TS]

01:29:55   crap comes out [TS]