98: ‘Far Less Eloquent as You’, With John Siracusa

0:00:00fashionably late as always it's pretty good for me it's because you guys do the

0:00:10live staying on a TPC you've got to be on time people are in there in refresh

0:00:14on their website that's not why around time why you want self respect standards

0:00:26discuss people you're a person who is representing for us here you go into Las

0:00:33Vegas Motor happen but there's sort of a West Coast personality trait to discuss

0:00:40move which is also your move is like nine o'clock rolls around or over time

0:00:45were doing and you realize oh I forgot about that and you immediately petition

0:00:49for his teammate delay and then you have a five minute delay after the 15 minute

0:00:53you sound like you're in a good mood

0:01:03sure sure why not week so I finished listening to now probably an episode

0:01:12behind those you guys probably recorded last night for context we are we are

0:01:16recording right now it's Thursday October 23rd you guys probably did in

0:01:21ATP last night but it's not out yet so I might be biased but I did listen to last

0:01:25week's show you talked about 70 review we talk more about it yesterday and

0:01:30yesterday's episode as well so well I'll try not to venture into duplicating the

0:01:37same story territory in 20 min say you know what I want to do you know some

0:01:42people time says things like the thing with all podcasts and you know this is

0:01:48kind of like it's like a first draft of your thoughts are and you just kind of

0:01:52on the spot and you start thinking about it and you start talking about it you

0:01:56know I do I can I ramble in Psych given time to think about that like I think I

0:02:00could say that again

0:02:01better and then obviously the ultimate as you like to write it I can actually

0:02:05figure out what they really think but just so you know anyway

0:02:08duplication I don't mind

0:02:10give me a second chance to get it right totally in in a big picture was thinking

0:02:16about this I don't know why because I guess it's it's just the way you human

0:02:19mind works but somehow ten-point 10 feels like a milestone in like 10 even

0:02:24though it's not you know actually the 11th major version and it's the 12th I

0:02:30guess that you've reviewed because you did the public beta how many how many

0:02:33Mac OS 10 reviews so I did Developer Preview to develop preview 3 developer

0:02:39preview for public beta and and all the release is in there was also one or two

0:02:43thrown in there that weren't really reviews they were just like random like

0:02:46head just went to Macworld and here's some more stuff you might want to know

0:02:49about aqua you know but if you want to go by the releases started ep 22 yeah

0:02:55and I can't remember what I think I played with the BMW right up so I'm

0:03:02thinking about this and you mention this on ATP any money online but there's a

0:03:05chance you're thinking that maybe this last one just published last week maybe

0:03:09last when you gonna do you do next year's yeah you know we can get into

0:03:15that a little bit later but I just thinking in and nice even round 10 I do

0:03:20think podcasts in general in you having been doing one regularly either ATP or

0:03:27choke on critical it seems like forever but it's not like wendover critical

0:03:39stern I think like twenty eleven years but to me there's this huge difference

0:03:46as you know I knew when I got to know each other you know when we first

0:03:49started emailing goes a long time before a match but we are at least as email

0:03:53before down fireball started working at you're still working out some of the

0:03:57story and ATP you gave me my first Campillo BBEdit or whatever the current

0:04:03version without them like it previously had commenced work to buy it from my

0:04:06work but you work to bare bones is a free copy of yet

0:04:11no wonder I lasted their school is giving away the Surefire customers yeah

0:04:21i dont no we have we've known each other since before there is even during

0:04:23fireball and and it's you know our interests are are are common first name

0:04:31aren't you know the fact that we're thinking exactly the same age even 1973

0:04:36I don't look old but I feel like the universe was dead was destined for us to

0:04:45know each other somehow like it just seems like it seems like no matter what

0:04:49you know how the days of enrolled somewhere you know in the intervening

0:04:53years we're going to get to know each other through the small world back then

0:04:57like the Mac nerds on the web it was just like it was very well using IE five

0:05:02and experimenting with CSS and reading zelman and like an apple doesn't go out

0:05:08of business and before that we're all read and you know we could you talked

0:05:11about last night cast and Mac user macworld like it was such a small world

0:05:16like if we don't if we both got the same Macworld Conference of Bollywood have

0:05:20bumped into that's almost certain it was it was they were small back then it was

0:05:25you know you would inevitably meet everybody you wouldn't have that yeah

0:05:29you did you see the same people year after year it's not like to be deputy

0:05:32see where it now it's like so crazy and you go and it takes some of your best

0:05:37friends you don't even see them here like hadn't even even run into someone

0:05:40so and it's just a very different but as someone who's always been a huge fan of

0:05:48your work at ours these these massive book-length reviews it's such a profound

0:05:53change now that your podcasting because they used to be that John Syracuse says

0:06:00as a brand was something you got sporadically almost like on an annual

0:06:06schedule yet to wait a year in between but when you did it would be like a

0:06:10massive mainline doze

0:06:12how different it is now that you have a weekly outlet and we all get plenty of

0:06:19John it's so different it's hard to imagine going back to that I had for a

0:06:27while and ours when they're doing like staff blogs or whatever there was a

0:06:30period and I'm always surprised when I go back and look at it like there was a

0:06:33period where I was blogging if you want to call it that pretty regularly on the

0:06:38staff blogs like I'm amazed at the number of things I wrote there I forget

0:06:41what I even relate it's like you know it's not that the volume that you put

0:06:44out a regular basis but you know how it is but you can't remember what the hell

0:06:47you wrote and I of course I remember all my reviews caused a big punctuated

0:06:52things and there's a few special stories in between there and retrospectives and

0:06:55I did like a game review and all sorts of crap you know but I can remember

0:06:58those but then there was just like at one point I was doing one or two pagers

0:07:02every couple of weeks for ours and I look back on that body work and I am

0:07:07happy with an ad like it is just like it was never there was there was no

0:07:12official or foul it wasn't what I do now it's just sort of ramble on a weekly

0:07:16basis we're just off the cuff or whatever it certainly wasn't the big

0:07:20long lead-up to a giant

0:07:21you know review it was kind of in between he and I guess podcasting is

0:07:26totally filled that role now because i dont have you know Twitter and plus

0:07:30podcasting have destroyed my ability to block not that I had much of an ability

0:07:34to do it to begin with but I may get back into it

0:07:37views and I'm not sure you're meant for it I don't know I feel like you've found

0:07:43your thing that is more it's it's like I always say that to me and everything in

0:07:49life in general rule it's the extremes where things are most interesting to me

0:07:54like a daring fireball the best posts are mailinglist 12 I think of just one

0:07:58word dad or two words you know good luck with that or something like that or the

0:08:04big long one thousand multi thousand-word its when I have a post

0:08:09that like

0:08:11300 words then I know I'm in trouble that i've you know either should be able

0:08:16to make this point much more succinctly or being lazy and I need to go deeper

0:08:20and I feel like with you it's you know you've found your your your I'm not

0:08:27going to spend a lot of time on this poor man it podcasting

0:08:31you'd like to spend all the time was just five more like less prepared it's

0:08:35like more more thinking out loud and you know going back and forth on the blog

0:08:39format like if I didn't have an actual their regular day job took my time I

0:08:43think the thing I like about that is not so much that any individual posts

0:08:47anything special but you sort of build up a body of work with like little

0:08:51reference points like a very frequently I find myself thinking back to you know

0:08:56I wish I had something that I could point to about this and podcasting as

0:09:01you know it's harder to like it's hard to ask people to go go back to this

0:09:05thing and I get to give them a time stamping out to look up and find out

0:09:08where everything is well as I can just point to a blog post I talked about this

0:09:11specific issue in a one pager and you can get my take on it there and

0:09:15individual one pagers not a big deal 12 pages but you know I have few of them on

0:09:20hypercritical echo I i refer to them frequently and a lot of times I wish the

0:09:24things I had said and worked out on the podcast let me do the same thing as far

0:09:27as Marco the pentium either write about it for us and talk about a podcast talk

0:09:32about enforcing that becomes a post your website and I find it frustrating that I

0:09:38can't point like the podcast or so invisible like they're they're femoral

0:09:43and you can't like a point people into the mood seems like asking more than

0:09:46just having them read a paragraph or two on a web page that you send them so I do

0:09:51wish I had more time to blog is available I don't like I'm not forcing

0:09:56myself to do it or whatever but I think a lot of the reason that you know this

0:10:01kind of weather blog terrible offense that the arizona racist are coming out

0:10:04yearly at first it was like they would just be quiet period where I wouldn't

0:10:08write anything but I'm just doing a review in a quiet period expanded to

0:10:11fill the whole year and so it's like well I guess on doing

0:10:14Twitter and worry about writing reviews yea well said how do you have any word

0:10:26was your your review has to this last is like the same about post as you follow

0:10:33me on Twitter it's like this I think this was last year I can look at the

0:10:37number its like 26 K 27 case I'm like that is that a hypocritical yeah as I

0:10:44dot Coco com guy wants too much money do we get for the best but we got the taiko

0:10:52somehow it read like somehow this top-level domains are such a weird thing

0:10:58because the whole thing is so gross and never should have been exposed to end

0:11:02users anyway

0:11:03filename extensions but they've become part of the world we live in

0:11:10dot com is just invisible right at somebody has whatever dot com and you

0:11:15just it's like the the nothing to me even though getting a dot com is

0:11:19incredible

0:11:20difficult cuz everything and everything was taken by the end of the nineties in

0:11:24the intervening years something about . Co which is people who don't know it's

0:11:29the nation columbia's top-level domain it reads like dot com and I you notice

0:11:36it how is not always you know but it has that same effect of like you just

0:11:41accepted that's why I can't even remember that hypocritical guilty it's

0:11:45kind of like a in our web 2.0 we like Flickr really bossy are kind of like

0:11:50comedy Bosque am kind of twee sort of precious merger mania really I just got

0:11:57it because you know their extensions far worse

0:12:03died us' you know . business but plumbing whatever they're so bad I just

0:12:10can't believe some of those anyway if you went to the site you'll see it at

0:12:16this it's my like the format of Denver the past three years it's like a

0:12:19template and I just changed numbers like mad libs and at the bottom of steps so

0:12:2327,000 word what's the I think that it's like the average size of a novel is

0:12:30somewhere around sixty thousand words so it's truly book length and the weird

0:12:37thing to me is that they have you settled in around this 2527 case size

0:12:42for the past like three or four not through any time just over to my own

0:12:45business that's how it worked out you know it's you know like that about how

0:12:49much work they can do on an annual basis on Mac OS 10 and it's more like that's

0:12:56how much I feel like I can or should write because there's more I could write

0:13:00about it every time I always ran outta time and I would like to hold giant

0:13:04sections but I was like I prioritize them I said well yeah I'm interested in

0:13:09that and I think I could write another few thousand words about it but would

0:13:13devalue it adds to the review and the interested as you be worth the time I

0:13:17put in you know and how much time I got schedule is because we only have so much

0:13:21time to it it still kind of compresses at the end there's only so much you can

0:13:25write about when things don't work and they're in the broken in a bit and Apple

0:13:28has made final decisions he got a you know the final bit up to come down and

0:13:31then you have to scramble

0:13:34so if we added them all together and I know that the sizes are different for

0:13:44some of the old ones but it's it's about 15 reviews a different talking to the

0:13:4911th number version and you did said you did D P two D P 34 so it's fourteen or

0:13:54fifteen it's an enormous body of work and really truly is and I know that it's

0:14:00not one single piece of war that if you read them all back to back there's some

0:14:04sort of repetition that would be going on because they follow a certain formula

0:14:09but I do think I think it's such as it's such an interesting testimony to have

0:14:15like twenty years from now and take over that they'll be out there for them to to

0:14:21look at and remember you know where things are that's what I hope people

0:14:26like to thank for young people give it to him they already done to hear about a

0:14:30look back on our great works and tremble and how often would we refer to a

0:14:35similarly detailed review of the system to from 1985 you know the Apple to

0:14:41anything like that are you know somewhere somebody would need it I think

0:14:46this bill for me those of ever go back and look at those levels they just cant

0:14:50standard just like it's terrible I hope you feel the same way but I really

0:14:54writing I'm like holy cow this has been like she's always like I guess I knew I

0:14:59liked it was it was certainly more casual back then and I was aware US

0:15:02Ryder and the combination of the two is just and really I don't know like you

0:15:08didn't know what was important than one was in the things I focused on it just

0:15:11seemed inane have a lot of difficult that a lot of people are going to go

0:15:15back and collect all these together into one big thing the most painful part of

0:15:18it would be that if I was to do that and you start reading you start reading and

0:15:22stuff are in 1999 think is not good just not good

0:15:27I mean I hope I we feel that way I kind of you know I kind of feel like you know

0:15:33he gets to get to a certain point and I just think everything alright described

0:15:36as soon as I write it and you know I just make as good as they can in the

0:15:39time allotted to move on but it's like programming like if i dont have a look

0:15:42back at the code I'm writing this year like 10 years from now I don't look back

0:15:45at the GoToMeeting this year and think it sucks I have done I can totally see

0:15:48that I look back I did learn this and there's a get it wrong

0:15:56think it was one of the great titans of modern computer science see their

0:16:02current again or rich you're one of those Bell Labs guys who said something

0:16:05about the debugging is twice as hard as programming and so if you write code as

0:16:12cleverly as you possibly can

0:16:15you'll never be able to debug it because you need you need an intellect twice as

0:16:19great you need you need to write your own code like a half wit so that when

0:16:24you do by guitar when you ride for me personally when I return to it that I

0:16:28can understand what the hell's going on I know that saying I understand the

0:16:33sentiment behind it but the logic in the same makes no sense and it's mostly BS

0:16:36and the details but in broad strokes trying to say the idea is that you know

0:16:41later you'll come back to your own code and not understand it and that is

0:16:45entirely true and so what he's trying to say is to mitigate that don't try to go

0:16:50make your life harder by doing things that are difficult to understand even

0:16:54now when you're in the midst of totally informed my use of comments is my

0:17:00comment I used to clear of course cuz I was a teenager and early twenties and so

0:17:08of course I didn't want to write any comments at all and I only did it

0:17:11because when I might see as professors had to view comments are automatically

0:17:18lose like 10 points

0:17:20so I just commenter stupid you know the the smartest teenagers comments

0:17:27restating logic of his life had one done exactly where as the light that went on

0:17:35even I don't write much code anymore but the light down on eventually was

0:17:40comments are like time travel you're talking to your future self who is

0:17:45utterly confused as to why you would do this seeming there's this doesn't seem

0:17:50like it's necessary to tell your future self here's why you're doing it why you

0:17:54want to keep it and it's made my code at least for my own self maintenance it

0:17:59made it all the difference in the world

0:18:00yeah there's a couple days like the early phase several things I don't need

0:18:05comments cuz I'm writing this now and I understand or not is that in the future

0:18:08in the second phase is realizing that's not the case and you start trying to

0:18:11come to be known about it could come in sorry and I think the third phase is

0:18:15finally realizing that if you write the code in a sensible way you only need

0:18:19comments on the tricky part you should minimize that and when you do need to

0:18:22comment on the tricky part you know how to write it in a way that will be

0:18:26illuminating rather than either the tricky part where you're doing something

0:18:30pretty clever and that it's you know a month goes by it's gonna be out of your

0:18:34head how you pull that off cos you're in the zone or for me a lot of times it's

0:18:38the you're working around something stupid and the workaround makes if you

0:18:43didn't know about the stupid thing that work around looks like it's what gets us

0:18:47why would you ever do this is done just you know don't do that and running for

0:18:53your future self easier than running for other people in your organization where

0:18:56your programming has lots of other programmers at the very least when

0:18:59you're ready for yourself you can you you can retrace your steps and you will

0:19:03arrive at the same conclusion again but other people don't do that because they

0:19:07react differently to the same stimulus basically so far other people were you

0:19:12trying to do is you have to put the wise but also like what is the broader

0:19:16context as whole thing what is even going on here are there any assumptions

0:19:20that are understated because you assume there

0:19:22their obvious to everybody but won't be obvious to someone new year from now

0:19:26yeah there's like writing comment is basically just basically writing like

0:19:30it's the same you have to communicate to people in plain language but they reduce

0:19:33ambiguity like two different to different goals different purposes

0:19:36different audience but it is writing and that's why programmers are so bad at it

0:19:39because their skill sets tend to not cluster frequently per people who are

0:19:43happy and comfortable programming are not happy and comfortable writing prose

0:19:46yeah I guess it's true that a lot of times and I know I know where the where

0:19:54the intersection of the blaze the programmers who who are good writer like

0:20:00brett Arends a great example rich so yeah i know i know i mean do we all need

0:20:04to read their blog is another great example man when he doesn't write much

0:20:09but when he does it is so sick cent and to the point and it's it's exquisite

0:20:15like I I often refer back I have a copy of the BBEdit to point to manual the

0:20:21first public version of BB at it and it's just like a model of clarity is

0:20:28such a good piece of technical writing did he write that 10 parts in there goes

0:20:34the couple of other credits but there's a little what would you call blog post

0:20:40now it's sort of like why does BBEdit exist whyyy on the Mac would you wanna

0:20:46programmers text editor who would ever wanted it more than 32 Kb

0:20:51it's more of its more like a personal mission statement for BB it and it's

0:20:59just terrific I said actually see if he'd let me see if I can re-run it or

0:21:05something I think it'd be an interesting especially now that be at 11 so maybe I

0:21:08should see about getting in on the internet as I think it stands up lo

0:21:14these many operating systems later he writes if you met him you can't help but

0:21:23read it because they're such a percent the mannerisms and the pacing the way he

0:21:28would say those things that comes through

0:21:30I just saw somebody tweet tweet the other day at a time it was to both me

0:21:35and you but to a couple of this where they relate now that we all have podcast

0:21:38they can't help but read everything we right in our own voices and I was here

0:21:42that and and I it's kind of nice was it means a lot of our pockets but also kind

0:21:47of cringe because I can't do writing is very good to be better at the house but

0:21:51i wanna way smarter when I write because I got all this runaway and I could you

0:21:54know speaking who knows what the hell comes out but writing I got my chance

0:21:59right and so it's almost a shame that they know you know stumbling it's that

0:22:03are behind the words like riding a secret weapon I got all the time in the

0:22:06world to figure out where this is going to be and is no wasted words in those

0:22:10stupid idealism and obviously again with longer views at a certain point it's

0:22:14gotta be like that that's that's the thing about this phone reviews all the

0:22:17stuff like early on and still to this day of MIS 10 reviews I'm a slave to

0:22:23getting out whatever idea it is in my head I have a point to make something to

0:22:29say about something and I have like 17 points to make and 17 things to say

0:22:33about it I want to get them all out and I sacrifice the quality of the writing

0:22:37many times because I'm like this this could be said more elegantly in a

0:22:42different way but it wouldn't have this one extra little bit of new on tonight I

0:22:46talk to myself like what do you care that one like this point is sufficient

0:22:50you don't need to go into this other details like no I wanted and so I make

0:22:53some awkward sense and I put that other point in there and it's why I hate

0:22:58myself for doing it but a lot of times it's like an overriding thing is say

0:23:03what I want to say and secondarily try to say it in a reasonable way and that's

0:23:07not just another way to make good writing but that's a lot of times when I

0:23:10do my last interview

0:23:11let's take a break I'm going to thank our first sponsor back for a second time

0:23:18it's a good friends at Casper I get my member from

0:23:23it was the one with Chuck Berry but caspar was a sponsor and had a great

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0:23:38you put on your been really really good prices

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0:24:28their mattresses in like that always just enough that memory stuff that it's

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0:24:41case ago we were thinking of getting one just because we know so they sent me one

0:24:46is really do in this country show they send one and it so how does a mattress

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0:24:59like vacuum sealed the mattress and it ships in what is still decidedly a very

0:25:04large package it is way smaller than a a mattress so put it in the room here

0:25:12gotta sleep in it then open the box they've got instructions that tell you

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0:25:52havoc six different Seeley's the next door you go to has six different

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0:27:51great mattresses go check them out at Casper sleep dot com slash talk-show

0:27:56mattresses on the internet what the hell next year and also are a team already

0:28:04buying cars yeah I guess you can buy new cars I think so

0:28:11speaking a big box as shown up my arm action of today so I started i

0:28:16pre-ordered it

0:28:17day one so must have been a week ago of course I gotta build order and it said

0:28:24three to five days and had a target ship date of October 24th to 28th and I think

0:28:32it was a wide range because it was over a weekend I did like 30 bucks for

0:28:37expedited shipping so I checked last night before I went to bed and it said

0:28:42you know I got a notice that my iMac was ready and it was in China and then at

0:28:48ten o'clock in the morning today my doorbell rang and it was here so from

0:28:53what I went to bed last night it was in China and it and I am it was at my door

0:28:56which is crazy magic of air traffic can't help but think that when they told

0:29:02me it was in China it was already really over the pacific but still it's kind of

0:29:06a kind of a standard and a lot of people may get their pictures of their boxes

0:29:12arriving so first batch came quickly

0:29:16everybody wants to know i guess i talked about here's a review eventually but i

0:29:23dont by Max real and then you even mentioned it on ATP like I just just now

0:29:28replaced 2008 MacBook Pro that I'd upgraded to an SSD at some point which

0:29:34couple more years of life but it was really really aging and my desktop

0:29:42display as you know it's it's it's like a 2004 20 inch Cinema Display

0:29:49Syrian 04 as reckless as I am buying a new iPhone every single year the

0:29:55opposite with Max I like to get one accident and then use it until it until

0:30:00it ridiculous field now you gonna find out if you have any glaring their room

0:30:05because I'm looking at the 23 interaction and that it's Matt and you

0:30:08know what you don't know if you have any series Claire issues if you've been

0:30:11using a matte screen for the past hour many years you'll find out now you see

0:30:15your face when you sit down in front of your an iMac that was that's one of

0:30:19those things where I think they've gotten better at it and I know that it's

0:30:22it's the sort of thing you can write about them they can advertise be really

0:30:26have to see it the anti glare at the thing that they've done with the new

0:30:28iPad there is pretty interesting but i wanna know why didn't he to the new iMac

0:30:3420 knots not laminated I think think the reason that in laminated I assume is

0:30:39maybe it's just hard to eliminate some of that but you know you know how did

0:30:41you take the glass often in the screen is behind it and they landed them

0:30:44together I guess you would like to take the screen off when you opened it up and

0:30:48then you have to like disconnect the cables or whatever interests maybe you

0:30:52make it weird to disassemble I don't know but anyway laminated together and

0:30:56so you've got that air gap which increases the glare and also that's

0:30:59where the dust gets caught you ever had to bring those are two of two to pet

0:31:04peeves that you and I share together I do not like glare on light displays and

0:31:08I do not like she noise so I'm pretty pretty pretty satisfied I'm pretty sure

0:31:16that it's gonna be I didn't take it out of the box I had too much to do today so

0:31:18I did I was ready for it but I'm pretty excited that it's not going to be noisy

0:31:24and a little worried about that

0:31:25I'm kind of glad to have the Apple 24 inch display and working on the first

0:31:32one that was kind of like the iMac touchscreen works that looks like

0:31:36Thunderbolt Display by 24 inches and it was a predates it but it's not the same

0:31:40thing air gap and the screen in an office with you know fluorescent lights

0:31:45and also had things in there are reflection things but the compared to

0:31:48all my coworkers displays which like these delicate ViewSonic things are even

0:31:53like their their laptop displays and stuff just the brightness and viewing

0:31:58angle like that they're ridiculous brightness of these things have the LED

0:32:00backlit screens you never crack on to the brain was a regular house but in an

0:32:04office setting we're just you know the fluorescent lights are everywhere is

0:32:07also super bright the ability to crack your screen up can really power through

0:32:11any other sort of Glarus just it's so much easier to see thanks to my screen

0:32:16than anybody around a look at their screens and you can't see it as a bad

0:32:21because everything is so damn in money so there are advantages to this this

0:32:26type of design Mauritius crystal-clear visa glass and a super bright screen

0:32:30behind it that worst case you can just crank it up against my wife has a

0:32:33wonderful display right behind me and I look at all the time and I know what's

0:32:36really nice too so I'm gonna be ok with the screen like the one you've gotten

0:32:40your iMac yeah the thing that makes him feel pretty good about it is that ok

0:32:44with the glare on the current MacBooks

0:32:48at least the rain and one that I have now does it does a laminated to there

0:32:51are maybe they are I think they are thinking because I think that my first

0:32:58impression when they first had the red-nosed 15 actually back at WNBC

0:33:01overlooking Jason Stolz whatever it was like the colors were like up on the

0:33:05surface of the same type of thing he got with the iPhone 4 and yeah I guess he

0:33:10may be that they keep the whole lid so then seriously seriously well I still

0:33:18feel like that I i remember when it was sort of a many years it was a maybe

0:33:25minds around three or four year period where there is like this great divide

0:33:33between for laptops at least glossy and matte displays and Apple stuck with Matt

0:33:40and hope PC industry went glossy and every time I go to Starbucks or

0:33:46something and they'd see people using Windows PCs just be flabbergasted at how

0:33:51like reflective their displays are and then Apple started offering it was like

0:33:57a choice i know i three years were you when you buy a new era I guess it wasn't

0:34:05even my books yet but you get a choice between man and that's one of the things

0:34:10I never hesitated for a second it was of course I want that I think he remembers

0:34:16I know what the PC people did for their glossy ones they didn't do what Apple

0:34:21has come to you now I just have a clear piece of glass on top of LCD screen I

0:34:29think maybe Apple's first glossy screens but certainly also the PC glossy screen

0:34:33sort of kicked off a thing for plastic but it was like super shiny plastic a

0:34:38novice polycarbonate or something like that but it had kind of like a sticky

0:34:42wavy kind of look instead of what you get from piece of glass because you know

0:34:46dead flat and like stiff you know i mean and that made the screens looking not

0:34:51only shiny but also cheap and I seem to recall Apple's first class he just was

0:34:56being like that too and that's why I was like who in the world would ever want

0:34:59that just looks awful when they switch to the big glass big heavy piece of

0:35:04glass and metal is heavier and it was a great nap is huge air gap at least that

0:35:08look a little bit classier to me like more diverse a more honest materials in

0:35:1301950 yellow glass we're gonna do that for years that that's settled things

0:35:20down a little bit but but even then and a lot of people who got the matte

0:35:23display just just for reflection reasons yeah I totally did

0:35:30so funny though that's is that that used to be at them and I'm still in awe

0:35:33because my display my desktop displays so ancient and it's literally 10 years

0:35:38old in 2004 soon after its like a relic I have to say it was money well spent I

0:35:51don't know you stayed with 20 and resolution probably die i feel myself

0:35:55just I wish I could get out of this 23 inch 1920 by 1200 I that's just like

0:36:00barely big enough to contain me but I feel boxed in though I always have time

0:36:05but eventually I got used to it and you know that your pared down like your work

0:36:17environment where you like you don't have as many windows open as you would

0:36:19normally having just come to try to go into like I'm just gonna have one

0:36:22central window is text editor and then off to the side of my web browser the

0:36:25budget ads and that's you know effectively with a 20 inch display it's

0:36:29a lot like using just a supersized like the lunch tray MacBook you know the 730

0:36:35likely to fullscreen fullscreen but for the most part everything I'm working on

0:36:39this just in a stack of windows and after command tab between them

0:36:42does not you know it's not be enough to do a lot of side by side so I'm really

0:36:46looking for a 27 inch and now I have over the many years honed by sort of

0:36:51like layering and positioning system for my windows which other people look at

0:36:54can make heads or tails but when I am constrained that I start have a lot of

0:36:57Windows I start running out of places places to the corners to poke out like

0:37:01that's you know the system is like a weird I got things in corners and window

0:37:05size and shape so that I can find a clickable region that's just the way I

0:37:09work with Macs you know starting from the eighties but when I just have too

0:37:14many damn windows I run out of places to have quick stop in if I ever find myself

0:37:18a new command failed command tabacum until the within

0:37:21to cycle through the windows I feel like I've been defeated by the lack of space

0:37:25so I really I really can't wait to get a 27 inch equivalent to appoint resolution

0:37:30screen so I can review it and I literally didn't even take it out of the

0:37:34box but having seen it firsthand last week and I know a lot and then the

0:37:38stores now too and I've seen a lot of people who were at least going in to

0:37:41look at them it's it's gorgeous it really is it's it's why I don't rush

0:37:47into replacing my desk at least six year old computer and a 10 year old display

0:37:53but it's I didn't hesitate to buy one and I know you guys talked on ATP that

0:37:59it too risky because you know there's a lot of times first-generation stuff from

0:38:03Apple has kinks to be worked out

0:38:05image retention of course is a huge question mark at this point I think

0:38:10jason said just now did Marcos little immature tension tests and said his iMac

0:38:16which you got any it does well pass with flying look so same seems clear on that

0:38:20front unless they're using to manufacturers and he got the bride and

0:38:23that's that's possible because snails is a review unit and they you know I don't

0:38:29know for a fact that I'm 99.99% sure that they sanity check the reviews

0:38:34they're they're not like factory sealed you know that there's a white glove

0:38:39guide to make sure that everything that this is a good you know there's no user

0:38:43and factory sealed cuz I just got for the first time I got a much longer Apple

0:38:47hardware further yosemite review it and it looked pretty darn fact they rapin

0:38:53backup how can you do that like that was that was a game again as a novelty for

0:38:59me to be getting review hardware and part of the game I played with I'm going

0:39:03to wrap these things so they look like I didn't take them out so I saved all the

0:39:06standard put it back on and putting it back on his super hard like you can't

0:39:10get a lined up right now can you wrap a gift

0:39:15Korea it doesn't look good looks when I wrapped gift it looks like that it does

0:39:21not look like a nice even matter how much I try I can't I know how to do it

0:39:27now and have reached the age where I know what I mean to do to make it look

0:39:29good but at a certain point is don't care anymore like you

0:39:32comes down to having the right length overhangs no amount of skill unfolding

0:39:37is going to save you and you realize you know how to write overhangs and you try

0:39:40to like trim it to make their own then that just get the ragged edge just like

0:39:44you know it's crystal fullbright get there comes a point where you set out to

0:39:48make it like I wanna rap on as good as my wife can rap but eventually I run

0:39:53into that situation and I think wait this is just gonna be garbage 10 seconds

0:39:57after I give it a try to think that I think about what you're doing it

0:40:02especially you having something and yes I can give your wife and your nose we

0:40:07even doing here but like you just got its gonna plow had bravely rapid in the

0:40:13received may remember wrapping things in the funny pages that come with your kids

0:40:21nobody does that anymore probably going to be late newsprint all over everything

0:40:26and was like who does I guess it was just like our parents saving money on

0:40:30wrapping paper or maybe you know maybe a little bit of column a saving money in a

0:40:37little bit column B we're all of a sudden it's Saturday forgot who I forgot

0:40:42it was Saturday morning and the party is it new

0:40:46and you remember you have the gift you bought the gifted you know target the

0:40:50other day but you didn't buy wrapping paper cuz you thought you start a closet

0:40:53full of it and you don't and just used the Sunday paper that was definitely I

0:40:59would I would say when I was a kid like lower grade school I would say probably

0:41:03about a third of all the gifts that I got were wrapped in the Sunday paper

0:41:07Sunday well I wonder how long have to go with the school books being wrapped in

0:41:13grocery bags oh I remember that covers right so I think they still do that but

0:41:19now the big thing in the you know the fancy stores like Whole Foods and

0:41:25everything is to have a cloth reusable cloth bags you know make all that paper

0:41:29waste so I wonder how long those things will be around yea long can you get a

0:41:32paper bag Whole Foods gives out paper bags yet if you don't if you don't have

0:41:37the little cloth bags you forgot to put them in the trunk of her car they give

0:41:40you a dirty look in the paper bag they had like a passive aggressive oh you

0:41:45didn't bring back a few not care about the Penguins who gonna choke to death on

0:41:51the bed and stuff and well enjoy your $5 avocadoes organic I've heard the dishes

0:41:59I've heard that if you eat organic produce you cannot get people there

0:42:04finally is an advantage there's a reason to buy the $0.89 a pound organic bananas

0:42:10instead of the 69 cents a pound

0:42:12regular bananas because it'll it'll immunize people they come with organic

0:42:17for flyers invade your house if you leave their absolutely adorable fruit

0:42:23flies

0:42:25I'm as as take a break do a second sponsor because it seems like a good

0:42:33time to break but I will go back I wanted to talk about next last week's

0:42:38event a little bit too before we get into yosemite but i wanna take a break

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0:45:14just do it so my texture works great with you say so

0:45:21last week's event I thought it was

0:45:26it was a little weird and I touched on this with Phil Schiller was he flat or

0:45:33not and i got a bunch of emails and tweets from people what's up with phil

0:45:38was he like you know something wrong with it seemed distracted as a yes I

0:45:45didn't notice it during the event I thought phil was just sort of downbeat

0:45:51Phil not you know just like this is not a big deal file and then I think it was

0:45:56a very deliberate I think it was sort of low key maybe I would say I wouldn't

0:46:02distract well but he is always like that to some degree right he's the pace of

0:46:08his speaking and his presenting sounds always a little bit weird like that

0:46:11maybe he was up next to people who are doing more fake enthusiasm about things

0:46:18or being but I just occasionally does seem distracted by stuff sometimes I

0:46:22feel like he's distracted thinking about the next thing he's gonna present even

0:46:25though he's been doing this for so long

0:46:27like these think about the next 20 percent trying to remember the things

0:46:31he's gonna do in the demo or whatever and he'll get to get inside his own head

0:46:35about that and like forget to fake enthusiasm about something that has seen

0:46:39a million times before but did not stick out to me much like I mostly just as

0:46:45well as a low-key guy and this is the way he presents seen it so much they

0:46:50kind of fades into the wall paper but I i always occasionally see kind of be

0:46:54distracted from aid maybe he was afraid that if the timing of things this before

0:46:58or after their road trip type thing now that the demo the guys who like that a

0:47:05typo during his thing and they fixed it and post remember that oh yeah yeah yeah

0:47:10who made the video video editing thing I forget if it was after that it's like he

0:47:16could have been thinking about that but he's like her so many times had to be

0:47:19scrapped the standoff you know what it was before that I don't have a splash

0:47:22yeah what was the deal with that I didn't know that they fix it in post I

0:47:26remember I didn't notice it during the event let people pointed out was it was

0:47:30it a feathery demo agreed mistyped road trip now it was it was like people who a

0:47:34third party software developers who they are and they were they were not native

0:47:41English right here is the guy who is reserved running the demo machine he

0:47:44fell victim to auto correct that I think it got a corrected utah Ute our road

0:47:50trip with its road trip and the guy shook his head and was pissed on himself

0:47:54and auto correct and then just cloud for the demo but then in post they have

0:48:00somebody could you do this and post day risk free screen capture the screen

0:48:05image and froze his image of himself before he does the handshake and then

0:48:11transitioned mmm post head shake it was pretty good at it like this side by side

0:48:14to see the person you see the screen and it made it seem like that did not happen

0:48:19or just fine as pretty cool it is shows you that Apple sweat the details are ya

0:48:25know like never heard it so many times and you could see the AutoCorrect bubble

0:48:28like we all know I don't have space bar is going to complete two is my favorite

0:48:36little detail I am actually it's like to to get the iPad review had to shelve it

0:48:40but I still wanna write my during fireball piece on my thoughts on last

0:48:44week's event and my favorite little thing and I'm not surprised you won't be

0:48:50surprised but I had to double check is that image that they used a couple of

0:48:54times showing you know a watch phone and iPad and MacBook and iMac like that

0:49:04I thought clearly like an homage to like that evolution image even out story goes

0:49:10the other way where the Mac was first other products you know came later sort

0:49:14of left-to-right newest oldest but I thought that was really telling image I

0:49:19thought it was especially telling daddy used it multiple times early on with Kim

0:49:24Cogan in like in the wrap up but I checked and of course they made two

0:49:29versions of it the first one was with an iPad their original iPad air and the one

0:49:36they use at the end when Tim Cook closed the iPad is thinner and its know yet if

0:49:41you look at them side-by-side it very noticeable that they made a second

0:49:44version with a thinner iPad even though they're only showing them from the side

0:49:47and it at any given moment was it was impossible to tell which generation iPad

0:49:52was because it was from the side that they made the iPad Mac external case

0:49:57proportions change at all with the right now

0:50:01yeah I can't tell cuz that's the one I would look for a replacement but if

0:50:05they're exactly the same appeals to tell from the side yeah if they had slimmed

0:50:09down or maybe you can tell from that angle that they're obviously very proud

0:50:13of it though when it first came up I read it just like I knew they weren't

0:50:18trying to make a text book but it kinda look like Hello had been on my mind that

0:50:22weird social network things like it's kinda looks like it could be letters

0:50:25they could spell things out without if they want to but that's not what it was

0:50:28the evolution thing is much closer analogy because it's from you have a

0:50:32hunch thing to the standing up things got a bit it's all swollen right even if

0:50:35its yeah yeah i'm looking at them now side-by-side it did change the lighting

0:50:41on the iMac in the between the two slides and it makes the day after one it

0:50:46looks a little thinner but I looks to me that it's just that they change the

0:50:51lighting

0:50:52and there's less of it and show more of it and shadow this is a different

0:50:56product like a different products like you know when they when they brought up

0:50:59the new iMac take a shot of it the lighting wasn't the same as when they

0:51:02had that older iMac ticket out of it so it is a bit like I think you look too

0:51:06few people talking about this I mostly agree with whatever personal link to

0:51:09there was talk saying like this is cute and all but doesn't communicate to

0:51:13people who aren't already on board much of anything because regular people might

0:51:18not even understand what they're looking at it along with devices which like

0:51:23Apple was clearly excited and proud of it and we Apple's always nerds thought

0:51:27it was clever and interesting and and because you had to find some interesting

0:51:30way to show these things that just like here's all the screens of black borders

0:51:33at Apple makes they come in different sizes right and you know one of them has

0:51:36a little stand at the end so coming up with new and interesting ways to

0:51:40photograph Apple's product line is a challenge that is mostly irrelevant to

0:51:45people who either work at Apple heard in following up for a long time whereas if

0:51:48you throw that image up in front of regular people I'm not sure how well

0:51:52will communicate anything I read to them at all but I you know the audience for

0:51:56this Apple event and Iran is not the iPhone event this is the the lesser

0:52:00event in was in a town hall small room mostly of interest to Apple followers I

0:52:07was appropriate venue for that image but not sure how I read it that's why I

0:52:13found adherence to parts to the to the Apple presentations not necessary to

0:52:19have but there's two types of messages they seek to convey some are for the

0:52:23mass market and they sometimes even showed that actual commercials that

0:52:27they're going to put on real TV show the commercial right there so it's exactly

0:52:32what they're going to be pushing in their marketing to hundreds of millions

0:52:37of real people through advertising but then other parts are the as close as

0:52:42Apple will get to inside baseball and that's meant for like us in the media

0:52:48who are then going to

0:52:52you know it's it's it's like they're playing a bank shot they're trying to

0:52:55get us to understand them so that when we write about them to the mass market

0:53:00that we're going to have it right that we we see what Apple is going to

0:53:07emphasize the parts that they think will tickle are the fancy of of the Apple

0:53:12fans like they're going to show you the video but the manufacturing process and

0:53:15emphasize the beauty of one particular physical teacher so that in the hopes

0:53:18that when you write your review that feature the you might have overlooked

0:53:21you'll say well I just showed the whole five-minute video of a factory in

0:53:25johnnie obvious why we're all talking about it and some of its more prominent

0:53:29your mind this is basically basic you know talking to the press type of things

0:53:32but they will never gonna show that video the Mac Pro factory during you

0:53:37don't care about the necro doll period and certainly not how or where it's

0:53:41built all the things that had about the unibody or whatever like think it's a

0:53:45it's unibody and they can give the thing out or whatever they can to show that

0:53:47you know computer controlled milling machines with the water going over them

0:53:51and just talk about it forever like when they came out with the MacBook Air and

0:53:54then see the subsequent universities they really hammer on that to try to get

0:53:57the message across to the press who would then get the message across that

0:54:00hey I know you understand what unibody is and I know you're gonna see it's one

0:54:04piece involved but it actually makes a difference and it's a big deal and

0:54:07that's that's the bank shot five-minute video on CNC milling machines and that

0:54:12totally translates to a little bit extra emphasis when the first unibody process

0:54:17in the consumer-facing product reviews

0:54:19another that I just love this image and I think another after somebody compared

0:54:24it somebody on Twitter compared it to one from one of the recent events that

0:54:28Microsoft had

0:54:30the surface but probably the surface pro 3 event and they had a table lined up in

0:54:36their hands on area with Nokia phones and surface Pro's and some of them on

0:54:43the table and some of them in a laptop stand and desktop computers and laptop

0:54:47computers you know up to you know whatever the HP equivalent of an iMac is

0:54:52all of them running exactly the same start screen you know this blue blue

0:54:59colored whatever they do whatever they rename Metro interface you know and that

0:55:04what a country you know it's it's a philosophical contrast we're in a

0:55:07Microsoft misdirection where you get the exact same interface across phone from

0:55:12phone to you know 30 inch desktop display and Apple you know when and as

0:55:19you know reiterated this year you know that each of these devices gets an

0:55:24interface that is just for that form factor in the increase you know making

0:55:28them very different and you know we can't even talk about it when we get

0:55:33into yosemite review the way that your sanity is clearly inspired by the

0:55:38direction that iOS 7 wind but it's it even at a glance just if you've been

0:55:43tuned out for six months and still haven't even seen yosemite and you took

0:55:47a look at it right now you wouldn't think so they copied Iowa 7 that it's

0:55:51the exact same thing it's different it's a family resemblance but it's like a

0:55:57brother or cousin it is not an identical twin exactly

0:56:00simply not twins and I think showing these devices in this promotional image

0:56:07for us we don't even see the display is in a in a strange way emphasizes that

0:56:13the that way you would send the displays are very different across also thing and

0:56:19I think this is always interesting to me and I tried to think about it

0:56:23is what are the things that Apple is trying to convey to us that they can't

0:56:28bring themselves to say for various reasons because it's you and me this one

0:56:35of the things with this image in a way that they spoke about it is that they

0:56:42don't expect or even want everybody to buy everything you're not supposed to

0:56:47have an iMac and MacBook and an iPad and iPad Mini and you know a phone and a

0:56:53watch if you do great you know you're a great customer but if you just have two

0:56:59of them that's great you know maybe you have this iPhone six-plus and because

0:57:05it's a huge phone

0:57:06feel like now I don't need an iPad and your only other product is a Macbook and

0:57:12you just use that MacBook everywhere you use it at your desk to use it when you

0:57:15travel and that's it you're perfect you're perfectly encourage that's that's

0:57:23that's absolutely encouraged but they can't say that they can't say it ok if

0:57:26you don't buy this you know i mean you can't get on stage and say you know this

0:57:31cool new iMac that we do show dude it's totally fine if you don't buy into work

0:57:35every talk about this an ATP little while ago about how they even just

0:57:39within the iOS device range you see them head-on or whatever they call it look

0:57:43like a black border around

0:57:45color LCD screen of various sizes but now they really fleshed out the range

0:57:51especially with the watch being a little tiny thing and then you have all the

0:57:54different various sizes of iPhones in the big one of the biggest one gets

0:57:57close to the many and that you know like it's a pretty smooth scale-up of

0:58:01rectangular color screens that you can buy from the big I read them on the you

0:58:06bought but and as the physical form factors have started to form the smooth

0:58:11scale but they're kind of showing in this image here they're still

0:58:15discontinuities because what is the difference between an iPhone 6 plus an

0:58:20iPad 1 runs iPad apps and one runs iPhone apps and the line between them

0:58:26ATP is probably going to go away sometime in the near future because that

0:58:31distinction like if you were to get an iPhone six-plus

0:58:34go to the App Store and be like oh I want this game or just happen to like us

0:58:39are you can only think what do you mean iPad only like that that is not much

0:58:43bigger screen Melling man what is it about the thing holding my hand the

0:58:46music can't run a quote unquote iPad that distinction seems like it's going

0:58:50to go away but this the other gap of like you get the iPad error if they

0:58:54become a pro and then to a MacBook Air which presumably go read it to why are

0:58:58these are different like well as you to explain why is a keyboard but they run

0:59:01totally different OS's one has touched one is not touch like Apple's expecting

0:59:07you to pick your spot in their product line where you feel comfortable because

0:59:10there are discontinuity still and I never going to paper over them to the

0:59:15Microsoft does like 2010 as everybody that's not what Apple believes in but in

0:59:18any kind of transition like another discontinuity when you go from the phone

0:59:21to the watch is just has to be account work the same way it's just too small or

0:59:25whatever so these little gaps like if they were to space out of like watch big

0:59:29gap phone phone phone tiny gap iPad laptop even bigger gap I'm at your spot

0:59:36the pic in that range of like you know I Chinese food man you want to call a one

0:59:41column be like and make up the suite of devices that fill out your life and by

0:59:47having this range I think obviously someone's not just gonna buy the watch

0:59:50and not have a PC and not have a cell phone like they're gonna have something

0:59:53in this rain just which ones do you think you need no one needs to fill in

0:59:56all caps and then they did but they can't say it that way right and I've

1:00:03always hated the way like we have something for every day you know like it

1:00:06is a look at this range like look at the richest cities range they're surely

1:00:09there is something that fits your needs like we have no flushing out like to

1:00:13diversify now fallen for the longest time like the iPhone was the iPhone and

1:00:16everybody wanted like it even now he said his room for diversification of

1:00:20like you know make one

1:00:21longer battery life or something like that they've diversified their line to

1:00:24say something for everybody and the same way they don't expect you to buy two

1:00:28iPhones like the big one in the small linear night phony your day phone it's

1:00:31the same thing that they don't say that because I think its obvious but just

1:00:36like the not gonna say if you if you buy

1:00:38MacBook Pro we probably can expect you to buy an iMac because the MacBook Pros

1:00:43are completely fully capable awesome machine you can do everything on but if

1:00:47you're the kind of person who wants a desktop we will offer one of those two

1:00:50ya Mac Pro some people wrote to me after the iMac announcement and they're sort

1:01:05of I have obviously they've bottomed last 10 months and they're angry that

1:01:12you know did not get angry just went out and bought an iMac but to me that's so

1:01:20totally not surprising you know that even though the Mac Pro is very

1:01:25expensive machine and in theory should always be at the leading edge of

1:01:30technology and it is in a lot of ways that it didn't go retina first or at

1:01:37least simultaneously and probably not even close like I know by Marcos logic

1:01:41of why he doesn't think a stand-alone five Kage displays gonna ship from Apple

1:01:45until 2016 is pretty sound because it there's a lot of I think he's gonna

1:01:50probably doesn't need DisplayPort / honorable in a 1.38 / Thunderbolt 30

1:01:57they're not going to do that then I can have hereunto cables to drive it just

1:02:01means that there is always obvious that there's a advantage of an all-in-one DVD

1:02:05all mine has they can use whatever the hell interconnect they want inside that

1:02:09box right doesn't either confirmed any specification and doesn't need that they

1:02:12could just do what do what you gotta do to make it work it all happens inside

1:02:16the box so you're always going to have an advantage for that thing if it

1:02:19happened that a standardized external interconnect existed for retina displays

1:02:25in the same time as the macro macro would have had it for ya but it just so

1:02:28happened that it didn't end and then you're like ok we need to get right now

1:02:32they're somehow and because the Mac Pro uses that the Odyssey on parts and

1:02:37because their generation behind because we don't have the external interacts

1:02:40apple just did whatever the hell it took to get it done inside this iMac box and

1:02:44don't worry about what goes on behind the curtain track

1:02:46but it does create this weird and historical time you know to five six

1:02:51seven years now we're gonna look back on it and it will just be compressed and

1:02:54we'll just remember that I'm actress first and everything you know the

1:02:58standalone displays were second in the interim though it is weird that the iMac

1:03:03is going to have these super amazing retina displays and the Mac Pro no

1:03:06matter how much money is spent on it and let you know well I mean you can get a

1:03:10fork a display from AppBrain four years back and then you buy one of those like

1:03:14special you know once for photography that has a bigger color gamut and has

1:03:18better accuracy and you buy from NEC it like the people who are buying Mac Pros

1:03:23minority have a super high res monitors for a video editing that confirmed two

1:03:28different standards then this consumer IMAX screens so it's not the people who

1:03:34might be complaining people who had bought a Mac Pro but didn't really need

1:03:38one and just want to have a can of them machine right that's the case I do think

1:03:42that's right what irks them is that now until there's a five k stand-alone

1:03:49display and when that comes out it won't run on the exact you have to get in any

1:03:53way they envisioned ongoing in a meeting at one of the many reasons that I didn't

1:03:57buy one is like well if I was waiting for retina this Mac Pro is not the

1:04:00machine because we know what it's capable of we know Apple didn't even

1:04:03offer any monitors I didn't want their body mind if I did have it there and I

1:04:07didn't want to be forecast wanted what Apple made here that I want to 27 inches

1:04:11that resolution of my wife 27 inch Thunderbolt Display

1:04:14just double the number of pixels very clean cars on there that's the thing

1:04:18that really blew me away at first I was like

1:04:21waiting for the well there's gotta be a catch and then I thought about like like

1:04:26with the iPhone six-plus where it's not really three acts retinoids to 2.8 2.6

1:04:32and they just use scaling to make it work and it looks pretty good but it's

1:04:37still not the same time they gave the pixel dimensions and unlike dividing a

1:04:44man on the moon that sounds like actual to axe you know and it is no doubt that

1:04:49announced their monetary similar specs so you'd seen as Dell announced he like

1:04:53okay well this must be technically possible now after I was going to offer

1:04:56one possible that it's like when when does Apple have a product this could be

1:05:01mean if they didn't exist and Dell comes out with his monitor the current Mac

1:05:06Pros can't drive with a single cable and might not be able to drive to get it

1:05:11then we just put all been waiting and be like well Dell's got these matters we

1:05:14can't have them but the iMac does exist in gave Apple an opportunity to you know

1:05:19we can get as soon as those displays are available we gotta get 121 our machines

1:05:23behind that is the way to make that happen so famous you know knock on wood

1:05:27let's wait until I actually take it out and set up and use it but I'm paper at

1:05:32least and from what I've seen in person this is the Mac i've been waiting for

1:05:35close to 10 years you know it's gonna be big upgrade valujet ever since I i

1:05:42remember when they were first talking about it bc maybe 2006 2007 but what

1:05:48they called it what are they called it before they had to work retina high dpi

1:05:54resolution resolution independent scalable you I resolution independence

1:05:59was and I remember I mention this to like my my fellow obsessive resolution

1:06:05independence is cable sasser panic and I remember going to the session

1:06:10at WBC with him we came out so excited and he was like we're gonna do all the

1:06:16graphics and other apps as PDAs and they did in fact they say parents started

1:06:20shipping UPS with with scalable PDF icons and stuff like that

1:06:25inside for tow bars and stuff like that years ago because of cable and I both

1:06:30convinced ourselves I don't even know what we were thinking I mean it's not

1:06:35just you like at like if you go back to my old OS 10 reviews Apple made promises

1:06:38they liked by 2008 our home product line will be resolution independent so get

1:06:43ready like 2006 when they say they gave it they give a year and a date and like

1:06:47every year like they were used to be section and my users like you know

1:06:51resolution dependence how's that going along and I would take a little

1:06:54screenshot of texts at it in like 20 X motor 1150 did you see what a trainwreck

1:06:58as you like and that's why this is still not easy facing see you next year I we

1:07:03just convinced ourselves that the like right now I'm actually gonna be coming

1:07:06out in late 2008 and you're so excited we wanted to get in line to buy one then

1:07:11and it took until now just i mean it was so much easier to make the iPhone 4

1:07:16screen to waste your victims and it's just so hard to make it that density you

1:07:21know so we had to wait a long time before I was economically feasible to

1:07:25make a screen this message that was the whole thing with red as well maybe they

1:07:28could do earlier maybe we'll just do it for 21 inch of track right cuz they

1:07:33could have gone that made that one retina sooner I would've been like for

1:07:36cash or three kailash type resolution but no they weren't true though the

1:07:40whole enchilada yeah and it's really as far as I can tell no compromise its in

1:07:45terms of the number of pixels the way they're doing it you know that there's

1:07:48no no cheapening out on it it's super bright it's amazing to me that was

1:07:54anything to during the event last week after you know Phil gave the specs and

1:08:00the size and you know I love you know what's gonna powers that's you know it's

1:08:08a huge problem all these pixels lighten up

1:08:10is this thing gonna get super hot and instead it takes less power which is

1:08:14crazy

1:08:17yeah that that's the thing that made me feel good about the machine that like

1:08:20that is not going to be just the ragged edge of what's possible to wade into

1:08:24this thing you know the cooling everything so they you know the GPU is

1:08:28is hotter but they made up for by actually make you scream my hope is that

1:08:33it's what bye bye not compromising and clearly like you said they could have

1:08:37shipped something sooner whether it was a 21 inch first or make it a 27 inch for

1:08:43k displaying you scaling to make the on-screen elements a reasonable size as

1:08:48opposed to making everything cartoonishly large they could have done

1:08:52any number of those things within the last few years and didn't think

1:08:57hopefully this it's almost like they're shipping like a 2.0 version of that they

1:09:02waited until they can get everything just right for people who have one

1:09:07sitting in their house tell themselves to make themselves feel better about

1:09:09fresh generation Apple products is practically had to play it so far so so

1:09:19far so good the only there was a little bit scary moment this morning when Marco

1:09:22and I had a few people treating us like look at this study was swiping through

1:09:27spaces on their new Renault 5 k iMac and it was like super slow and stuttering is

1:09:32like but then million other people to be detained and showed the exact same thing

1:09:36on there you know 13 inch MacBook Pros just say some weird yosemite but

1:09:40hopefully the workout and 10:10 one which will hopefully come out soon as I

1:09:45had I had no reproductions at home like I mean even I might you know for unibody

1:09:49MacBook Pro Tools doing all that stuff but then I'm at work that had been on

1:09:54for days that's running you some money I have enabled activated machine and

1:09:58religion ever do otherwise and it was like oh this has gotta be somebody

1:10:01bought because we get reports like it doesn't happen all the time and the best

1:10:06I can tell us that it's some kind of issue that happens when your back is on

1:10:08for a long time but there are bugs and that was the only scare so far about the

1:10:14five-time acts turns out to be a false alarm

1:10:16yeah I never know how far I can push it in

1:10:19hands-on areas after these events like and there's others who who are older

1:10:26than I have to do it and download kik pension transfer yeah I wouldn't do that

1:10:30because then they'd stop you there is every one point like if people can get

1:10:36longer hardware anyway then you can test it for all you want I can decide to do

1:10:39the hands-on area well and I could see how the people who aren't getting review

1:10:45units would be ten more tempted to do something like that and see if they can

1:10:48get away with getting the iOS devices like you want to find out just three

1:10:53courses that iPad right so you know quickly go to some I don't exploit some

1:10:58crazy jailbreak thing to quickly get something like to be able to run yeah I

1:11:03think they'll generally cut you off before you get there but it's funny

1:11:08talking to them because the that the people who staff the hands-on areas I

1:11:11think are all I know most of them are but I think all of them work under

1:11:16schiller in the product marketing division at Apple and there it's easy to

1:11:23think of them you know they all wear t-shirts they're working on an Apple

1:11:27store something like that but they're all like in my experience super super

1:11:31informed about the stuff that you were that you're talking about like if you

1:11:37had asked is this three quarter in is that how he could when from 22 billion

1:11:42transistors 23 they would know the answer but they also know that they're

1:11:46not allowed to tell me that they're super super down there totally brief

1:11:49they have to have their talking points they know what they will talk to you

1:11:52about the no specific phrasing for you know if you ask a question or something

1:11:56and they're gonna tell you something that they're gonna they're all going to

1:11:58say a sentence in the same words it's it's talk about their profession and

1:12:02that's all it's very evident like if you know anybody was there at their first

1:12:06you know the first time you get invited to an Apple event you go to the entire

1:12:09it very clear that they have a script and have talking point

1:12:12but the other thing though is that they they're full time jobs three hundred and

1:12:18sixty-three other days a year are working in Apple's product marketing

1:12:23being hyper informed about that all of the technical details of all of Apple's

1:12:28products like the these people know they know their shit they know the stuff

1:12:32that's not on the script and it's you know and they're not going to be fooled

1:12:37by somebody trying to download something like that maybe I could see getting away

1:12:42with it and in the early parts of the hands-on areas because it's so crazy and

1:12:46crowded and it's everybody wants to get their hands on him at once and maybe you

1:12:51can get away with it but not my thing was I i they were showing photos of

1:12:57course big images because it just shows off the thing they commissioned a guy

1:13:06with like one of those bad ads but this camera that shoots like 50 50 megapixel

1:13:14digital images and like a cityscape and you can see these details and you can

1:13:20zoom in and read like the license plate number on the car and engine back out

1:13:25and it's actually see that it still being rendered in individual pixels on

1:13:28screen but I closed that and went to light the finder and opened up like it

1:13:33so far a window and tried to drive around the window as fast as I could I

1:13:37thought that was my benchmark in there and I'm here if I Drive a window around

1:13:40as fast as I can

1:13:41does it does it shear like I think that was a good thing testing also you know

1:13:47if you think about the the first signature and the MacBook Pro 6 growing

1:13:51at the maximum resolution at the one that was bigger than the native screen

1:13:54you know that that one had a little bit of issues why not you know why but the

1:13:59scaling and not with the composite compositing is always been pretty easy

1:14:03to do with the way you looking for sharing is because you know they have to

1:14:05be driving it was like essentially to DisplayPort 1.2 connections or the

1:14:09equivalent behind the scenes in like you would look like the drive to left at the

1:14:12screen like I mean that's the type of thing Apple would not ship if you could

1:14:17if you could get tearing while dragging windows around I mean I will never shop

1:14:21that even when it meant the dragon windows around with slow as molasses you

1:14:25still get me

1:14:26I would have been shocked but it's something I had to see to believe but

1:14:31that was the extent that I tested it in advance

1:14:35gets rolling I put in a position to window right in the middle so if there

1:14:38was you know if it was some kind of two screens glued together trickery that I

1:14:44tried to figure that out of course it's not anything else from the event last

1:14:51week I guess there's the iPad 2 iPad 2 which is kind of interesting I think the

1:14:58way that they've gone with their iPads is why I try to write about it this week

1:15:05that its there's no real annual pattern to it and I don't think it means that

1:15:09it's directionless I just feel Lake the engineering winds that they can pull off

1:15:15each year while maintaining their profit margins are very very different as

1:15:21compared to the iPhone which to me seems much more predictable with the top and

1:15:27iPad and the reason I'm still totally in favour and iPad Pro is like while no one

1:15:33is really paying much attention they're pushing up the highest and i OS device

1:15:39to put pushing up really close to PC class in terms of power

1:15:44not in terms of interfaith doesn't have a keyboard still it's still touch or

1:15:47whatever but you know and it doesn't seem like a big deal I go on my iOS apps

1:15:52faster and maybe like a game look nicer something like that but it's like it's

1:15:56one of those things where when we have all the steps in between it doesn't seem

1:16:02so impressive is not as impressive as you know iPhone 3G S iPhone 4 where they

1:16:06go ready like wow they just doubled everything it's amazing right but

1:16:10through a series of small steps this gonna come a point where new classes of

1:16:14applications are possible on an iPad merely because they've been pressing

1:16:18authority and there was a little stall there I think a lot of a deal with a

1:16:22goodbye to ram for some time but now

1:16:24having two cars from the how long we had two cars like everyone else and

1:16:27quad-core like the Android space like that so now they're pressing again

1:16:31gigs of ram three cars I don't think it makes new categories of stuff available

1:16:35to you but maybe a generation or two from now we're gonna wake up and say

1:16:39there are things of the iPad can do that the iPhone can't quite dream of doing it

1:16:45I mean right now it's like you just need to power to run this big screen in the

1:16:49end the iPhone you know is reasonable but like I i think you had just have so

1:16:53much more headroom in the bigger form factor so far they haven't really been

1:16:56willing to do with them I just the first year I feel like they're pulling away by

1:16:59giving a double the RAM and everything but you know there is room I think there

1:17:04is room for four more sophisticated applications to be an even larger an

1:17:10even more powerful ipad were just like right now it's kind of like we're

1:17:14inching towards that it just seems like a faster bigger iPad well I think the

1:17:17two demos they chose were really good I think they were such great Emma's the

1:17:22pixel pitch inventory and replay what did you see the schiller mispronounced

1:17:28so shelter called it Pixelmator

1:17:33but those are good demos because in theory if they've already got the iOS

1:17:39app working for the iPad they could come out with maybe they will even though you

1:17:44know maybe when Pixelmator I was ships it will be universal and a running

1:17:49iPhone too but clearly editing photos is better the bigger the screen the better

1:17:54and on a phone screen you're seriously constrained you know in for like the

1:17:59exact thing that they did where they're making like an advertisement for you

1:18:03know this big image and they want to superimpose taxed and you know having a

1:18:09laptop size screen like the full-size iPad even though there might be small

1:18:15for a laptop but still certainly you know nobody that the small iPad Mini is

1:18:20vaguely giant-size phone size right it would be the biggest phone ever but it's

1:18:26you know you could imagine somebody making an Android phone that's the size

1:18:30of a night

1:18:30many but not an iPad and for photo editing it's you know size matters and

1:18:36then I think with those replay guys I thought that was an interesting boy you

1:18:41could never do that on a PC demo because to meet the big part of that is that

1:18:48you've already got the device you used to ship to shoot declares it's all one

1:18:54thing it's the camera is the editing system is the playback system right and

1:18:59you don't have that with the laptop like where you might shoot a bunch of video

1:19:03on your phone and then you can connect your phone with the lightning adapter to

1:19:08your MacBook and suck all the video over and open NNN you might airplane on GTV

1:19:13so people can see it and put it back on your screen but it certainly aid that

1:19:19beyond the technical acumen of the light typical people and be it's not something

1:19:24you want to do an occasion like in the demo that it's like it's the type of

1:19:30thing we're here on vacation you tell yourself when you get back home boy

1:19:32you're going to spend a day and take all your stuff and put it on your computer

1:19:35and make a nice video and send out to be open communication and you're rushing

1:19:39around and you're back to regular when you're on vacation

1:19:42you got the iPad with you you can do and you know go back to your hotel room

1:19:45right here waiting for your table at dinner and just suck these clips in and

1:19:50push a button and have it finished video pop out that you could post share share

1:19:55right there and then say hey guys this is overdoing on vacation and like other

1:19:59things looking for the iPad which we still haven't seen but people have poked

1:20:02around like the whole you know split-screen multitasking which we know

1:20:05is lurking the code for putting multiple apps and two thirds of course it's there

1:20:10and obviously it's not Baghdad and are ready for a new maybe you need a bigger

1:20:13iPad or whatever but that's what I'm talking about it like pressing the

1:20:17limits of what can be done on a touch device I can't help but think they're

1:20:20going to two gigs of ram is a sign that

1:20:24if there's an iPad pro in like five months from now that's the route the

1:20:29rumor is you know make maybe like February or March they're gonna have an

1:20:33iPad Pro 12 or 13 inches or something like that and it'll have split screen my

1:20:39guess is that this iPad if that's true this iPad air to get the split screen

1:20:44too but no other iPad because of room on the smaller yeah I think it's not like

1:20:50they've promised it but you know in fact I guess they still sell the original

1:20:55many which they're selling for 249 is only 512 megs of RAM and you know you

1:21:02guys talk about ATP but it's it the frustration with the growing range from

1:21:07bottom high-end alone is that developers don't have the ability to say this app

1:21:12only runs on the iPad air too because it so graphically intense you can't do that

1:21:17your iPad you your iPad app has to run on at least lunch on all iPads and

1:21:22that's something Apple has the flexibility of changes in at just an app

1:21:26store ruled they can change the role in a time they can give you a little API

1:21:29endpoint update to definitively say because they keep bragging about as

1:21:33Marco pointed out that they that big chart that shows the GPU speed that goes

1:21:38up like a big hockey look how far we've come the a Texas its GPU is so

1:21:42incredibly powerful and yet they're still shipping the second on the ground

1:21:46a second like well it doesn't help that I gotta make a game that runs on that

1:21:50second . I don't it's frustrating to me the X's out there is now a good game

1:21:56that scales from all the way out at the I can't believe we used to live like

1:22:00animals like that and to the hockey stick

1:22:03remove texture mapping in that version will just be flat shading but I do think

1:22:08that there's a general you know the gist of it is if you're an iPad app or modern

1:22:12iPhone app you can assume you have access to about a gig of memory if you

1:22:17need to if you need it so I feel like this I feel like the iPad air to getting

1:22:22to his

1:22:24is a sign that if they're split screen it'll get it and I don't think the other

1:22:28ones will assist I'm 42 day like it's it's kind of sad that the iPhone doesn't

1:22:34have a very least you can make some kind of battery life

1:22:36excuse for the phone yeah definitely I mean maybe like it's like it's

1:22:42borderline they've been made it happen only if they gave it two gigs of ram it

1:22:46would be a different devices but there's a there's a Quora post I haven't linked

1:22:51to it from doing fireball because I feel like it's a little I i dont I can't

1:22:56verify myself and it seems a little bit to rob reliable even when they even when

1:23:02they don't even when they don't put enough RAM in the phone it's it's all

1:23:06good but the expert if somebody asked on Quora why it why did the new iPhone 6

1:23:10only still only one gigabyte of RAM when a lot of the top Topshop competitors on

1:23:15Android have to like the top-ranked answer was somebody saying that it's

1:23:20there's probably a whole bunch of other reasons too but the big one is that a

1:23:26garbage collected system like Java needs double the RAM a man on garbage

1:23:31collected system like iOS and that their date linked to an academic paper that

1:23:36showed how you know if you can give the garbage collected system enough RAM it

1:23:43all just works out but when a garbage collected system gets rammed constrained

1:23:47it goes to hell and everything gets cummed up waiting for memory and it or

1:23:55something to that I do think that you know I S because it's a garbage

1:23:59collected can get by a one gig longer than it will then like Android could've

1:24:04but I still do you know it's it's still irritating every time I go back to

1:24:08safari in my taxable been pushed and that's that kind of messed up the grill

1:24:14luxurious buying the top and iPad air to is gonna get you think I go back to

1:24:19Safari ASAP re still running it's healthy and be inspired

1:24:23aight I just had

1:24:25I notice with my review on my first break before about an hour before the

1:24:28show I was flipping through your committee review and it had finally

1:24:34gotten flushed from memory but I hadn't been in Safari for a while

1:24:38been doing a lot of other stuff but it is being generated images that are in

1:24:42there if you can do that to you that I was the first one it got inflation it

1:24:47was definitely noticeable I think it's super interesting to that they've gone

1:24:51they've so out of class but it's it's so noticeably faster than the iPhone 6 in

1:24:58any kind of benchmark because it has you know it's a faster and faster single

1:25:02core and it has a third quarter the GPU is more powerful desire to push more

1:25:08pixels and I think I may look to the specs but I think they may be like it

1:25:12had over power point where it's not just like the same speed is this is the

1:25:17iPhone 6 GPU but just has to push more pixels it's like it can push the more

1:25:21pixels and then some

1:25:22yeah and I got to talk to I just happened to beefs my seat in the event

1:25:28last week was right behind the front towards the front like fifth row on the

1:25:32left and demagogues role in front of me like right in front of me where the the

1:25:36replay guys in two rows in front of me were the guys and I know the guys

1:25:42because they sponsored sponsored the show but I know that sponsored a

1:25:46fireball many times and I've emailed them in a recent 1.0 came out it was

1:25:50like wow somebody actually used you know image and all these other cool Apple

1:25:54technologies to do the things we've been talking about for fifteen years and have

1:25:58indeed rival to Photoshop

1:26:00China by email you know since forever first time ever met in person I've was

1:26:05awesome to be able to congratulate them in person you know what a moment in a

1:26:10you get to be on stage at an Apple event and demo your app and end up I know the

1:26:16replay guys a little bit too I didn't recognize the names when they first got

1:26:19called up but they've sent me just as the guy rates during fireball the same

1:26:23emails on various things over the years and you know we were right there in town

1:26:27hall with a couple minutes before they were gonna kick us out and they're you

1:26:31know they're not gonna give me any kind of state secrets about what what life

1:26:35was like the last couple of weeks while they were working on this but they you

1:26:38know they could speak a little bit and both of them like the replay guy said

1:26:42that he thinks if anything Apple has completely undersold the graphics

1:26:48performance of the 8x

1:26:50that when you know from what they were doing the last couple weeks getting the

1:26:54demo together for replay that it was way faster than what Apple the same compared

1:26:58to iPhone sex it that's the thing about the power in these like they're putting

1:27:04so much power and as iPad building up to the next sort of the next on a big leap

1:27:09like they were gonna have to worry about to get a different class of applications

1:27:12but especially for graphics performance the the the different class of

1:27:16applications and you can get is a extremely graphic sophisticated game and

1:27:22you're never gonna really have one of those on iPad air too because it's the

1:27:28same reason like when you know when I go watch dogs are you know what it was like

1:27:33you know more about us by phone but any like modern console game at the current

1:27:39generation consoles there is no we part of those kids the Wii is standard

1:27:43definition and incredibly weak and there is no way to scale a modern PlayStation

1:27:484 game that all the way down to something that's in that dark like this

1:27:53not you can use fewer texts and lower resolution textures and the game will

1:27:57run fine he's just not possible right you cannot take a game is getting better

1:28:00so any game that takes full advantage of the 8x I don't know if you can make a

1:28:05version of that game that also runs on the 249

1:28:08within a five and by I'd like there's nothing you can do to the game to make a

1:28:12run on that and so like you kind of stuck you can never make you can never

1:28:17make an app that can really take advantage of it is really happening in

1:28:20gangs or like scientific imaging the only two things that you could do it

1:28:24really use the GPU like that so it's kind of it's kind of a shame that you

1:28:28know I mean I guess you can do your image effects really really fast and the

1:28:32you know the a 52 grams affects the same ones just much slower and that's how you

1:28:37can get away with doing something like Pixelmator on both platforms but games I

1:28:40feel like people are stuck there that that and also if you're those type of

1:28:44games that graphic sophistication costs so much money to make you hurt yourself

1:28:48a lot of them and I'm not sure that the touch interface is sufficient to you

1:28:54know to sell again like five hundred million dollar game i guess i pad I

1:29:00don't know if you could you could sell that with if you've already sweating on

1:29:03this is great because now that I have a 10 year old son I actually am familiar

1:29:06with just about every title that you've mentioned including testing do you have

1:29:11to know you know we have free access and I don't know what to do about it because

1:29:18I kind of feel like the PlayStation 4 looks like the better the more time goes

1:29:21on looks like it's a better platform also do you have destiny yeah we have it

1:29:25on the Xbox yeah yeah pretty good game

1:29:30have you played just to toy around I'm told I like the old man but it's you

1:29:40know really really graphically an Xbox you should check Xbox Live Arcade I

1:29:44think it was a version of Crystal Quest

1:29:47get about it so I'm me tell you you get into a we played some stick it in any

1:29:54way you need a mouse do they really have it and

1:29:54way you need a mouse do they really have it and

1:30:00yeah I believe so maybe now in the the Xbox one way back when are you there on

1:30:03the original Xbox 360 cassidy angry nothing was the actual real company may

1:30:08request for I do think I do think though that this is games in particular I do

1:30:15think that they're really pushing a pull to open up the App Store 22 hardware

1:30:21limit that app somehow you know if they already let you limited by OS

1:30:27I just can't see why it's getting to be untenable as they extend the life of

1:30:34these you know these devices and that's the thing that the as Alan pie called it

1:30:40the zombie iMac that $249 retin A not render my iPad Mini the original iPad

1:30:48Mini which is from two years ago is really from four years ago because they

1:30:555 system on a chip and the 512 megabytes of RAM and everything is really it's the

1:31:01iPad 2 shrunken down like the iphone4s writer the same generation as they must

1:31:06have been around the 4900 my iPod touches the same thing

1:31:10512 pics from a five-point night so they've actually it's just in a weird

1:31:15way Lake they've actually the lineup I think only has a has a 52 49 but then

1:31:24there is no a six iPad left there already gone so it's it's like a year

1:31:33behind an extra year behind the next step up its it's a really old piece of

1:31:39technology and I liked and again for some this thing is every time you know

1:31:45it all came out and now be a texture is like and the Apple TV to get playing

1:31:51video games on your television through an Apple devices like just sitting there

1:31:55in front of Apple for you like they've gotten him get every single piece of the

1:31:58puzzle that just don't have the desire to do just fine I can't be in every

1:32:01business maybe they don't feel like going into that fray but as they

1:32:05accumulate to pieces especially with metal

1:32:07and the Apple TV and go there on ARM chips for these crazy GPUs in them like

1:32:13I don't necessarily recommend that they go for it but I don't think there will

1:32:16be equipped to compete in that space but it's just so weird to see them it's kind

1:32:19of like what it was back in the e-book the dawning of the book around 2001 2002

1:32:25and was like Apple's got these iPods and it got away to some things didn't get

1:32:28online with the iTunes Store and like they have all the pieces to dominate the

1:32:33e-book space like they're basically i think is made before the Kindle came out

1:32:37like maybe around the same time we can go to the same things like why is Apple

1:32:41not you know the e-book market is there for the taking for Apple to have all the

1:32:45pieces that have the momentum they could they could do it just not interested and

1:32:49eventually like yeah I guess we'll see books 228 Amazon most dominant player

1:32:53and I boxes covered also ran and the gaming space obviously has been heavily

1:32:57populated for years and years but here's apple just dutifully working to

1:33:00essentially build the ingredients of a world-class gaming console platform and

1:33:05then just not not doing that yeah I you said it's laying right in front of them

1:33:09because the 8x I didn't hate is probably pretty good and you could make it

1:33:14reasonable gaming console out of it especially with metal which you know

1:33:23again talkin to you know developers Apple calling it ten times faster than

1:33:28OpenGL seems fair

1:33:30it seems like you know real world well it's 10 X in like you know if you do

1:33:36something stupid and you just measuring draw calls to say it's a it's a micro

1:33:40benchmark but like anything is better lol API every game console has something

1:33:44like like Apple AAPL has done something that's that's that's the advantage apple

1:33:49today modern apple today has is that they have enough developer support in so

1:33:53many customers that they can get developers to use their support like the

1:33:58part of the game engines you know the unity and unreal for engineering like it

1:34:02will make a port solely for you know so they can sell I was right because that's

1:34:05a that's a big market and make a lot of money off that so all those engines are

1:34:08so yeah yeah well we'll make a part of her engine 22 metal and then everybody

1:34:12who built games on our engine will take advantage

1:34:14like to build a full fledged console is there had to do something like when be

1:34:19like the lower powered like the PlayStation TV or something because

1:34:22they're not going to compete in power with PlayStation for it but there's no

1:34:27reason that Apple couldn't build a device that competes with the

1:34:31PlayStation 4 it would not be just an 8x in the box but like by making the

1:34:35addicts and metal and having a store and talking to game developers and getting

1:34:39the engines for technology shows that if they wanted to they could make a product

1:34:44like this that is of similar power to place it in forever the next generation

1:34:48is and decide to compete in that space I don't they just don't want to be just

1:34:51fine like it's all about what do you say yes to what he say it like that the

1:34:54recent interview where you keep saying like there's plenty of things we could

1:34:58do we have plenty of great ideas and we don't we don't not doing because we're

1:35:01not capable of them to just choose what they want to do and thus far they have

1:35:05not made this choice just like for all those years they chose not to enter the

1:35:08e-book market so well or even honestly even chose not to enter the phone market

1:35:12I mean people who were clamoring for an Apple phone ever since cellphones became

1:35:18consumer priced items like they hadn't figured out what they wanted to do for a

1:35:24phone you like that different competing internal products anything whereas the

1:35:27game consoles everything I do is like we just got back into the game console like

1:35:30everybody else like this like that don't enter the space until they feel like

1:35:33they have something significant to the iPhone that into the phone space like

1:35:36the Motorola ROKR but they didn't feel their own phone that was just like a

1:35:40candy bar phone right they didn't interest base until they had something

1:35:43even though their candy bar phone would have been the best candy bar phone they

1:35:47just didn't ride and that would have that would have hamstrung them because

1:35:50that would have made it interesting iPhone harder than you got a transition

1:35:53people what about my old phone I liked it what is this new thing but a blog

1:35:56where is the iPhone is your first phone no problems and lastly the performance

1:36:01thing and you know again I don't often go to benchmarks when I write reviews

1:36:06but I really just think it's so fascinating how quickly the high-end

1:36:10iPad is gaining on

1:36:12the low-end MacBook Airs and again it's not apples to apples cos OS 10 and iOS

1:36:18have so many different interface things and just rules about multitasking and

1:36:23how much stuff can be going on in the background and how much RAM you get a

1:36:26MacBook Air was like 16 days exactly which can have an enormous performance

1:36:32especially not not even benchmark which is real world you know

1:36:36benchmark in a real-world advantages because when you're switching between

1:36:39these things you know they're all still in bed and I would have to think the SSD

1:36:44storage and there's also felt like I think this is the first generation of

1:36:46iOS products to use PCI Express for the SSD connections I heard that is a big

1:36:52thing I haven't seen I can I fix a tear down right that's the case for like what

1:36:55they've been doing that on macbook air for a while but but yeah like I heard

1:36:58again not verified it's not like somebody showed pictures of it but yes

1:37:04somebody'd seemingly reliable said its PCI Express which is you know its

1:37:10desktop you know in a safe Desktop class performance they were there they're

1:37:13actually they're not hyping it they're they're being serious and that's what it

1:37:17like that negates that type of stuff the more boring stuff if you're not playing

1:37:20a game that thing that gives your performance on just using your iOS

1:37:24device is a matter of memory you have and how fast are just gonna get done

1:37:28when you're launching a pin that wouldn't happen launching this happen

1:37:30like it's not the CBO's most spending less time waiting for i/o during during

1:37:35those times when you're waiting yeah which is exactly why I splurged and got

1:37:39the SST stories for the iMac I feel like my last spinning hard dress that I've

1:37:46ever bought you know this in the past I would like mine to be in the past but

1:37:51they're not getting the other than external drives that I would use for

1:37:54like backup or something like that we're not going to be waiting on it as it as a

1:37:58user even then like at work my sister useful stuff that I use my super duper

1:38:05clone a spinning and just so painful I how long a super duper phone just

1:38:10you know it's like region the SSD and then just like go get a coffee

1:38:15hardest ok I read one more thing from the SSDI could just see supra do so it's

1:38:19all a symmetrical so I would love to be on this team but unfortunately I keep

1:38:23accumulating stuff and hit the reset button on like storage is to be scaling

1:38:29with my with my digital Harding and the Nexus these are like oh that's just now

1:38:35barely catching up again with one terabyte as a third brake and thank our

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1:41:47Squarespace dot com slash grouper so let's talk yosemite for the rest of the

1:41:53show my son calls it might yeah I think he says he's exactly is funny I didn't

1:42:08think about kids but that was exactly like the people said coming out to be

1:42:11the BBC's the keynote is people don't know how to spell yosemite people don't

1:42:15know what he is and then when my son started talking about like it doesn't

1:42:22really matter it's free to sell it to people I think the visual thing and if

1:42:30it is anything that that maybe I thought you underplayed was talking about the

1:42:34visual redesign could I know you care but it's it's also a hard thing to talk

1:42:40about you think I underplayed I spent a lot of words and that that's like the

1:42:44footballing a section in there could've been longer cuz you know it I guess the

1:42:53other thing too is that you you know that they're not we're gonna have

1:42:57something to prove it and next year's will look a little better and look a

1:43:01little better but you know I think you know this is basically what we're

1:43:04looking at for the next you know at least probably a decade on the Mac yeah

1:43:13I forget what I put it in my view my cut but one of the things I mentioned in the

1:43:18most recent ATP's like this thing that Apple does when they have a new fancy

1:43:24design that they like I did when I was seven they did it with the original aqua

1:43:29and and 10 they did it with you know the various looks in between like brushed

1:43:32metal they tend to err on the side of going too far down with a look and then

1:43:38they back it off later in response to complaints and so like I was ever in

1:43:43recent memory where they have a super thin fonts right and everything was just

1:43:47you know maybe a little bit too precious and the parallax effect and assuming

1:43:51everything and so you add things to reduce motion you want a little bit and

1:43:55you make adjustments that was most of them before release but the Aqua

1:43:59original version of 1010 was just crazy pinstripes everywhere super glossy and

1:44:04lickable all faded and soft lighting like everything was shot with vaseline

1:44:08on the lands and they back that offer years hardening up the edges toning down

1:44:13the pinstripes and then brushed metal came in and everything was freakin metal

1:44:16version turning that down getting rid of it but like going too far and then

1:44:20backing off is preferable to them it seems they're not going far enough

1:44:24like being timid so there's somebody is and and a kind of damone that in their

1:44:29view or the part that account for the review that I don't know everything

1:44:32there anymore as saying like to be nice if we could skip that part where they go

1:44:36too far and just go right to the park with a tone it down a little bit and

1:44:41maybe they thought they don't know where they need to turn down like a checkbox

1:44:44to make the menu bar not translate because the transition then your body

1:44:47original and liberals it's crazy translucent it made everything on

1:44:50reading and now now they feel like they have the confidence to like well this is

1:44:55crazy out there in the public gallery thing together and is aware of contrast

1:44:59and it was just looking money and indistinct but it won't be unreadable so

1:45:02no more checkbox to disable that it's like you know there are places where

1:45:07they went too far in this and there there are budget adjustments that are

1:45:11already there but none of them sort of none of them to need to be the way we

1:45:16hope it's going to be in the next to revision yeah that's it

1:45:18few hours before the show started

1:45:21lens review of yosemite motives focusing solely on the appearance and I hurt my

1:45:27feelings that I was your favorite

1:45:30doesn't even count anyway yeah I know I i read his thing when the originally

1:45:36Posted by that I mean it's a similar sentiment was 10 Balboa and last 10

1:45:41policies are gonna look great and I think that is totally true I'm basically

1:45:46on board

1:45:47completely with the the basic style but there's definitely some toning back that

1:45:52I think needs to be done

1:45:53also my big complained that I didn't just complain about ATP is like the

1:45:56transparency effects I spend a lot of time explaining what the different kinds

1:46:01of transparency are how they work and here's how they're deployed in the OS

1:46:05right and all the stuff about the rearrangements of the USA and then I had

1:46:09a whole section called philosophy which they can try to isolate the part where

1:46:12I'm gonna like try to contact this like here's what it is here's what it looked

1:46:16like here is whether use it and then it's like why why why is there at all

1:46:20what is it about what's behind my menu bar that adds to my life right and you

1:46:24know why do I need to see that yad to see any of that right what is you know

1:46:30like because there's always some kind of philosophy I like the original aqua it

1:46:34was like transient elements were a translucent yes so sheets just appeared

1:46:39briefly in go away

1:46:40drop down menus briefing go away those are translucent it's it's a temporary

1:46:45there's a logic to it right but on the other hand the doc which was always

1:46:50there was also transit so it just like well a few transients cooperate and here

1:46:55at like you know I several times I've asked Apple about the effects and during

1:46:59the different peanuts they've said here's why we do it and they have

1:47:01reasons behind them and had to like look at those reasons and say like is this a

1:47:05reason for you to pollute all of my side bars with the color of the desktop

1:47:09background like sometimes that the justification can more capital the times

1:47:14I like I don't buy like the whole thing of making the did you know that the

1:47:18temperature in mood here desktop background influence the look of your OS

1:47:22sounds like you mean it is a thing that happens it works like if you if you have

1:47:26a super orange desktop background all year you're behind the window blending

1:47:31transition regions are going to have attention

1:47:33your menu bar is going to be changed on all the menus that are going to be

1:47:37tinted orange red but like I did you know that that aspect of personalization

1:47:45like it may just twice in the face of Trance tradition or whatever they want I

1:47:50want my cleaning beautiful interface to be on top of that I don't want the

1:47:53desktop picture like I may like it because it's a nice picture I like it

1:47:56but I don't like its contribution to the sidebar of my email crime to now looks

1:48:02like a muddy rusty orange thing whereas before it was crispy text on top of a

1:48:07background color that the app designer it changes what it means to pick a

1:48:11desktop picture before it was ok what do I want to see when I got nothing open

1:48:14like I'm done like let's say like as you complete your what you have to do today

1:48:19you keep closing windows in your closing tabs and you know you can quit your

1:48:23email cuz I'm not gonna check it again and now I've got nothing and i'm looking

1:48:26at my desktop and this is a picture that makes me happy that's all you had to do

1:48:31when you chose your desktop now you've gotta pick something that's going to

1:48:35make like you said like make the sidebar in your email client look good when you

1:48:40don't even see the desktop and then there's no point have to have to do to

1:48:43to put in ATP times I have to do some follow-up because one guy was on last

1:48:46week I English we talked about this week clearly confused the hell out of a lot

1:48:51of people into because we're talking about the way that if you have like a

1:48:55stack of white windows just like text edit documents and then you have mail in

1:49:00front of them in the sidebar of male behind it just a white window it still

1:49:06takes a tent from the desktop that's what does in terms of not merely making

1:49:13any kind of logical sense in the world of physics we weren't what everybody

1:49:17seems to think we said was that it doesn't take any cues from what's right

1:49:21behind it so if you it's mostly it's mostly what's behind yes but that

1:49:25touches the death it's mostly what's behind it directly in the window behind

1:49:29it so if you have like a real vibrant purple

1:49:32image you know grimace from McDonalds in the window behind you and your mail is

1:49:39in front of it you're gonna have a purple sidebar but I end up a lot of

1:49:44times with a lot of weight Windows you know editing documents and stuff like

1:49:47that or email client or iChat

1:49:50but but but God forbid you have like a safari window with it was like a dark

1:49:54black blob and then some white stuffed in the black blobs are showing right and

1:49:58if it's not like it not like an entirely black window where it just makes the

1:50:01whole thing look great if it's just right in the middle

1:50:04there's looks like there's so much I see it in the Messages app every day with

1:50:08when I have transparency on because there's my blue messages are always on

1:50:14the side and so up at the top right there's this blue propeller about it in

1:50:19a ranging from I can enter to that doesn't extend across the whole bar and

1:50:23it bothers the hell out of me

1:50:25his analogy is that an ATP last night but probably should also put their view

1:50:30but didn't solve this section on extensions and I go I go through a

1:50:35little bit about the the old days of extensions where they were just invade

1:50:39the memory space if you have the OS or other applications and even unto the

1:50:42last 10 days just like you know every app launches loaded the scripting

1:50:45edition which just like runs wild in its memory space and does some crazy hacked

1:50:49you know and able window shade or whatever it's gonna do right and the

1:50:53idea that you would write a program is an application developer and then you

1:50:58would tested and debugged make sure it works correctly and then handed to

1:51:01somebody and then someone else you'd never met write a program that invades

1:51:05your programming changes the way it works and causes a bug in your program

1:51:08and you get like a support ticket early hey your your your text editor has a bug

1:51:12in like 10 I told us that doesn't like oh I'm running this extension and and

1:51:16this thing written by someone you never met invade your application and changes

1:51:19the way it behaves and now it's buggy you got to fix it since nineteen tenable

1:51:23way to develop software because how can you like the halting problem how can I

1:51:27know what's going to happen when some program I've never seen before invades

1:51:30my programming changes the way its behaviour impossible for me to write a

1:51:33quote unquote correct bug free program in this environment to develop the

1:51:37designer equivalent of that is going to make an application to make it look as

1:51:42good as I want but I have no control over what windows are behind

1:51:44called the person desktop background as I just gotta trust Apple to try to make

1:51:48this into something readable and then I get back to the you know why why is it

1:51:51what is it about the sidebar like I can i can i can buy pull-down menus I can

1:51:56buy sheets I can buy you know transient things that are floating in but the

1:51:59sidebar seems so a part of the content of the application like maybe who has a

1:52:04slide out drawers like the old style one that I can say with transient and maybe

1:52:07should be translucent but there is nothing about sidebars that says to me

1:52:10please tell me what's behind you like it they're filled with text like their

1:52:15source list therefore text that has to be readable I do not want to be

1:52:18distracted by the other stuff there and so i mean i i know there's no option to

1:52:23turn it off except to turn off everywhere and I pretty much at this

1:52:25point I feel like I can on board with the way they used translucency even with

1:52:29the stupid tendering and all the drop them everywhere sidebar just like a

1:52:33bridge too far the other thing I don't get I don't get the other use of it I

1:52:37don't get the in window transparency you know like and Safari Chrome at the top

1:52:41of this far away does the little bit more justification that of their own

1:52:46doing as i said im pretty sure I said this interview once they made scrollbars

1:52:49invisible the only way you have any indication that their stuff above or

1:52:53below is if you see something truncated or if you kind of see this damn you know

1:52:57wavy image of things that are above or below and that bothers me less because

1:53:01two largest and have a stronger boundaries like the toolbar buttons

1:53:06themselves don't let stuff go through on them so they're gonna be you know like a

1:53:10dark markings on like backgrounds well-defined there's nothing in the

1:53:13toolbar itself and I need to read this can become illegible and Mike just

1:53:19scrolling through the review I can kinda see the reason to do this and it's one

1:53:22of the one of the justifications of philosophy section is that this looks

1:53:25nice like that it's fashion that its athletics and if you scroll through my

1:53:29yosemite review and when I look at some of these screenshots I think some of

1:53:33them are really pretty like the multiple docs for the different backgrounds or

1:53:37even when I'm trying to show something that i think is a negative like the same

1:53:41safari window just change tabs and it radically changes with the entire

1:53:44interest looks like the pages are has curled up in the scrollbar that's as a

1:53:49little bit crazy but the images beautiful I think like this has the most

1:53:52interesting screenshots because of you know I I purposely tried to show things

1:53:57in both

1:53:58in the worst light like get the most ecstatically pleasing but show at the

1:54:01extremes are i think is a really interesting thing to do it and but I can

1:54:06only excuse it as long as it doesn't starting pitching on usability when does

1:54:10impinge on usability a good reason other than in some scenarios looks really good

1:54:15I know your scenario it's ugly and you can't turn it off and some scenario

1:54:18looks good and that that hostile policy and I just I guess I like the in window

1:54:26transparency a little bit more than the behind window transparency because

1:54:29there's a little bit more like you said with the scrolling and a sense of their

1:54:33stuff up there there's some kind of logic to it where is the sidebar

1:54:37transparency is just seems mindless to me so I think and I've been as I've gone

1:54:42full time I think probably going to run with the reduced transparency option and

1:54:52yeah and that bothers me because I think I mean does as I point out in their view

1:54:56it it does look ok like that like it and still as handsome it shows that this is

1:55:00a sturdy design that does not rely on transparency parlor tricks to look nice

1:55:03because it looks looks perfectly nice and its solid especially on gretna

1:55:07screens with certified airlines about things that contrast is still a little

1:55:10bit low but otherwise it shows that this they're you know they're sturdy bones

1:55:14underneath this design but it's a shame to give up all the transparency of the

1:55:18text I like just to save that one that I don't think the bosnian transparency and

1:55:22accessibility preference pane and those things are there to help make the

1:55:27interface more usable for people who need that but I feel like designers are

1:55:32not spending as much over what things look like with that turned on by

1:55:35third-party an apple designers like that it that it looks clunkier that looks

1:55:39more like like the way that Windows like wow I just do this and I'm sure to look

1:55:43funny look at it as like details are right there sweating over what it looks

1:55:46like in the default mode I don't think people are sweating over how any

1:55:49application looks with reduced transparency like right down to the

1:55:52overlays for volume changing with the corners don't have transparency in some

1:55:56situations are you saying that I don't think I should be

1:56:02so now I now can you leave the house in on like it's it's totally counter to the

1:56:06Super apple nerd aesthetic everything has to be beautiful and elegant like

1:56:09that stuff like that is around if you know where to look for it because he has

1:56:13accessibility is not meant to be like it's it's first and foremost is supposed

1:56:16to make it more usable at the expense of you know perfect aesthetic beauty so

1:56:21there is one of your expenses made you think more about that when you change

1:56:25the volume and you get that they would call it the temporary over the rounded

1:56:30corners are just filled in with black as it transpired part of whatever that

1:56:36thing I got the call that I bet that the bug that they'll fix but it's it's a

1:56:40definite side but that type of thing like you would a file that is a bug hey

1:56:43when I enables accessibility options this thing doesn't look as nice they're

1:56:47gonna be like yeah but you know it's easier to see right stuff doesn't show

1:56:52three right that's the point of accessibility future feel free to file

1:56:56their bikes if they could close it is BS correctly I well I like you said I would

1:57:02love to be able to pick and choose and just turn it off in the sidebar because

1:57:04I like the transparency on the menus I think it it makes it looks good and it

1:57:09makes sense to me that it's temporary you know it's it's just a little thing

1:57:13that while I choose this menu command is floating over my thing and now that

1:57:18they're solid I just checked it right here in front of me it's doesn't look at

1:57:22the text rendering changes especially not read the text rendering changes when

1:57:26you go solid on the menus as well and the menus the thing about me about the

1:57:30media's attention the desktop like I like the overlays like the volume change

1:57:34when transparencies on the sort of Iowa 7 overlay when you put control center

1:57:38from the but like it doesn't bring it doesn't pull any colors from your

1:57:41desktop background just simply I am white slightly translucent with that

1:57:44cool blur I wish them anywhere like that because all my desktop pictures are made

1:57:49by pull-down menus uglier like I'm gonna have to change them even though I love

1:57:53the pictures that are there just pick one that has a different dominant color

1:57:57so that dominant color I can you know stomach with sign of an all white gold

1:58:01diamond did you turn on

1:58:03increase contrast haven't used it like that obviously turned on the screen I

1:58:09feel like that one guy I know just saying it looks like system sex but it

1:58:13looks awesome sex made by someone with not a lot of attention to detail has

1:58:16things collide with each other in this no spaces between things they just sort

1:58:19of drama the magic marker over the edges and don't read they don't change the

1:58:22metrics so it's like crowded there's a whole bunch of things that I think look

1:58:26better and a whole bunch of things that clearly look worse just in terms of

1:58:30whether it's pleasing to me and I realize I guess this is it is under

1:58:34accessibility for a reason I can actually see clearly how it is an

1:58:38accessibility features for some people but I actually like some of the details

1:58:43of it but there's others that you know I can't I don't know a kid rocket

1:58:46full-time its and and the low contrast unlike basically the default by reading

1:58:52a stupid Congress doesn't it remind you speaking about 25 like the days when

1:58:55we're all using bitmap font and everything was likely you still do it

1:58:58like a light grey text on a dark grey background and you know and and 10.4

1:59:03down a pixel thoughts and every like everything was super low energy you can

1:59:07just make it so precious and beautiful but then when you when you move back

1:59:10from the screen just faded into a uniform grey haze and you don't notice

1:59:13it so much in Yosemite until you turn on increased contrast like whoa this

1:59:17airlines now jump out at me and that is clear delineation than likely to our

1:59:21buttons don't fade into the toolbar as much as they used to like it goes too

1:59:24far in the other direction but you only noticed low contrast of Use Somebody

1:59:28when you turn on the high ground and then turn it back off and I know that I

1:59:32feel like I just my night vision went out and now everything is fading into

1:59:35one big blur get one of the things that most surprised me about yosemite when

1:59:39they unveiled at the BBC was that the general control system pressure where

1:59:47you control the basic appearance stuff you know

1:59:50graphite blue highlight color and stuff like that I I had my gut feeling was

1:59:55that they were going to get rid of all that just as you know go more like Iowa

1:59:59State we don't get the pic highlight color and I

2:00:01unless you gonna get blue and you're gonna like it or the app is going to

2:00:05override it you know get the pic whether you get lured grave as I like color you

2:00:10don't get to pick the color that you know when you select tax what color is

2:00:14the highlight of the texts that's the thing about increase contrast it changes

2:00:17your head like yeah to something that I seemingly can't quite figure out how

2:00:22what the rules are for I thought they were going to get rid of all that

2:00:26because I thought that was sort of that such an old school consumer you know

2:00:32feature you know that you get like the way Windows you still let you pick

2:00:41everything you know you've fully designer blue with white trim or you can

2:00:47make Windows look just truly got awful but they'd like to do it but the thing

2:00:51they have in their the things they have in there are there for reasons that

2:00:55haven't changed the whole reason graphite is there is because they're

2:00:59essentially bowing to pressure from graphic designers who felt like the

2:01:02candy colors were throwing up their color sense and they know as I think I

2:01:06put another view this is such a multi-year big a few dollars designers

2:01:11who are like you've got to get these candy color doctor will decide our face

2:01:15it's totally destroying my ability to you know in the next two other colors

2:01:19and it's something that's neutral never said find his graphite and they gave me

2:01:23everything go blue tinge of gray which was worse I feel like throwing up color

2:01:28balance because if you if your mind believes it actually neutral grey but

2:01:31it's not there's more blue screen up way worse than primary colors red green

2:01:35yellow or good but I to graze morning I loved it though it was almost as though

2:01:39they let me pick is like right down my alley here now but like it doesn't

2:01:46that's not really what they asked for and how now with graphite is now now

2:01:49much more neutral grey and it's totally boring but for people who want something

2:01:52with Nicholas sign but they went the other direction like I said ok we've got

2:01:55blue and graphite and also but appreciate you can do this crazy dark

2:02:00mode that we serve half-hearted they did to match our programs like again you

2:02:04know that I asked about that they're like

2:02:06a bunch of different reasons for a bit like the one that has the most weight is

2:02:10like your customers want this to match the power applications that are also

2:02:14dark because they're like they're looking at video all day and they don't

2:02:16want the white menubar doc staring them in the face so here's a dark but I

2:02:20thought you must have stayed up to date with the betas over the summer I thought

2:02:25that they actually called it a dark mode and it seemed like a hint like when they

2:02:30unveiled it on stage at the BBC that it would be almost like everything windows

2:02:35that all sorts of stuff was going to go dark

2:02:39well so there's a couple reasons why they didn't do that like early on in the

2:02:43in the betas in the general control panel thing I like is the the same

2:02:47control was there but instead of being a checkbox it was a theme pop-up menu so I

2:02:52was like Africa with the words were like whatever word is next to the graphite

2:02:54aqua picker and then there was another picture that it was a pop-up menu of

2:02:58like seeing it was like regular and that became a check mark which is kind of the

2:03:03demoted from like I would not seeming is not OST me this is just check mark

2:03:07option that tweaks how certain things look and you can't go fold architect for

2:03:11the same reason even just making the menu bar dark was a problem because now

2:03:14you have all these third party and you know Apple's own in the beginning

2:03:19menu bar icons the drawing correctly when when they drew blood draw black on

2:03:24top of you can see anything Apple's own had to be updated in the third party

2:03:28ones had to be updated multiply that problem by about a bazillion if you try

2:03:31to change the entire interface too dark how many applications draw with black

2:03:34and if you put them on a black background everything's invisible so

2:03:36that was just not going to happen like the appearance manager in those days you

2:03:40had ways to you know every using the appearance manager you can make sure the

2:03:45replica and Apollo right because you didn't you if you embrace the appearance

2:03:50manager you never pick you never said drop black tank flush or whatever they

2:03:55give me the text color and now drawn text color and you didn't have to know

2:03:58what text color was whereas now you see a lot you know there's clearly a lot of

2:04:03apps that Coco was like cocoa was not made with that in mind and you know

2:04:08certainly jobs came back

2:04:09theme stuff was can even though the API's were still there and so like you

2:04:12know as a talk about there was there was a brief period whereas explosion of the

2:04:15evening

2:04:16a community but like even though that tech was there and people took advantage

2:04:18of a job as against it pretty much closed the door on that and now you have

2:04:22a an ecosystem of applications that are not prepared to be on a system where the

2:04:27system changes in radical way I mean it's hard enough for Apple when they

2:04:30change the look to make sure like you know if you drew custom control now

2:04:33looks wrong in everything and there's all sorts of other day and I know it's

2:04:36even after I even know that they've cut it down it's just use dark menu bar and

2:04:41Doc it's like the the selection cut the highlight color for them

2:04:46menus in the in the dark mode it's not right

2:04:52that's another you know vibrancy attempt to get in touch with the desktop

2:04:56background but also like you know sort of inverted type thing it's it's weird

2:05:01and sometimes little you know it looks a little sickly sometimes it doesn't you

2:05:04know it doesn't it doesn't have the pizzazz of like their big thing in the

2:05:09regular the regular look is this very light grey lighter than normal not a lot

2:05:13of grading to it and this really powerful kind of like if Pepto Bismol

2:05:18was blue instead of pink that's what the blue looks like right now it's like

2:05:22you're really like chalky thick opaque blue and that's your highlight color

2:05:26whereas when you go dark mode and just kind of becomes this like pale moonlight

2:05:30shining on yours like that element is not doesn't make a powerful statement

2:05:35yeah and it doesn't even convert the color of the text so I mean and you're

2:05:39saying that because you're running in and graphite know that's what we're

2:05:42talking about here

2:05:43confused if you run in changing thinkin on graphite and change the dark mode and

2:05:47then pull down menu and looks much marks looking stronger and yes it looks

2:05:52horrible and grab it looks ok in blue mode but it still doesn't change the

2:05:57color of the text though like in regular mode when you have like you you hover

2:06:01your mouse over the New File New then new goes from being written in black to

2:06:06being written and white because the blue is so vibrant in the dark mode they

2:06:11don't change to like they don't convert the text it's just too close it's not

2:06:17clear that the background is so different that you know you have to

2:06:19infer that gets too and then it and that's the thing with the vibrancy of a

2:06:23good showing that WWC like they would show that hey if you

2:06:26you draw text but like it you know again the text I don't think drawn on a

2:06:31vibrant background we will adjust the color of the text to make sure that

2:06:35every part of the text has enough contrast to be readable and so the text

2:06:39color changes because like behind but you can see behind the fire backgrounds

2:06:44but I'm held behind do whether it's a window a desktop background so you can't

2:06:47just pick one text color you have to sort of just the text color as you go

2:06:52along in sync with the whatever is behind the to make sure that this letter

2:06:56on the right side of this sentence is a totally different kind of miss lever

2:07:00unless i'd be the thing that's behind us different and they're trying to finesse

2:07:03that and and again I have to ask why what's the point of texas poker readable

2:07:08just put it on a background when you could wear the developer of the

2:07:10application control the foreground the background color and we can all read the

2:07:13friggin tax I don't need to see what's behind it

2:07:16why I i hear it I I'm surprised I'm still a little surprised that they even

2:07:23have all these options that they didn't you say you know my way or the highway

2:07:26and you gonna get gonna get blue indigo I get so I took us from 10.4 to 10.5 for

2:07:33them to just like brushed metal is gone

2:07:36pinstripes are gone there's one window style the buttons looking almost nothing

2:07:40is too transparent that the menus I mean I remember they liked the transparency

2:07:44of pull-down menus was so extreme in the beginning and then by the end like by a

2:07:48leopard and Snow Leopard timeframe it was practically opaque like why bother

2:07:52at that point like I can't see anything through this it's almost entirely opaque

2:07:55white right so you know it in 10 points 15 expect all this exuberance to a

2:08:02consolidated into one more conservative yet still recognizably yosemite issue

2:08:09and there's a couple of things they get right I think the new doc is great and I

2:08:14here's what you wrote in your review setting aside the particulars the

2:08:18Yosemite doc exudes a visual confidence that has been sorely missed in the last

2:08:23few releases of OS 10 like I i to me the doc exemplifies what yosemite is is

2:08:29shooting for ya and as I said to be it the ideal scenario for you to show off

2:08:35my brain see because the icons are so like you're not going to lose

2:08:39no matter what crazy crap is going on with the background image of the

2:08:42screenshot of like a look at how green it looks here look it up here the icon

2:08:45stand so proud of that interface you're not going to get lost you're not trying

2:08:50to read a bunch of texts and you have full freedom on that background where

2:08:54otherwise no information be conveyed to show off the school effect that we've

2:08:57done everything we've learned poll for a different colors in saturated it looks

2:09:01beautiful it's interesting and it you know it conveys this is a piece of glass

2:09:07or translucent thing laying over stuff like that is the ideal environment for

2:09:10this for this type of fact because it doesn't impair anything at all really

2:09:15and even like the parts are you hover and you get the text those they gave

2:09:18dedicated backgrounds that ok well now it's time for you to read text I'm not

2:09:22gonna mess around here I'm going to give you it is almost a fairly opaque light

2:09:26colored background with dark you know text on top of it or the reverse and

2:09:30dark mode to make sure you can read the text for the hunters and everything like

2:09:33that but doc itself would be fine figure it out no more ridge's no more weird

2:09:38frills no down nine angle and shiny things on it no reflections of the

2:09:42windows that are going above it like it's been a long road for the dog I

2:09:46think the Mavericks doctors and probably the best 3d doctor the kind of like that

2:09:49that you know not brush metal across something else in the parlance of the

2:09:55Mac but like sort of a matte finish metal type of thing the 3d effects still

2:09:59just does not work and should never have been done but that one of the most class

2:10:03but I was like we're done with that phase here's what the doc looks like a

2:10:07look the same vertical and horizontal this is the doc which is kind of a shame

2:10:11but it was never documented future anyway what was pending top and bottom

2:10:15yea doc centered on the edge of the screen people love to paint a top or the

2:10:19bottom I suspect that maybe one thing that they are personified get off

2:10:23complaints about it even though it was undocumented people who have been doing

2:10:26it and doing it since like you know whenever whenever the undocumented

2:10:29feature was added whatever Developer Preview thats you can say it's

2:10:33undocumented but once you've been doing it for 10 15 years as the faults right

2:10:38thing yet did you just give it a preference was you know a preference

2:10:43that you just put into terminal and

2:10:45and then I remember that com com that Apple dock pinning starter and whatever

2:10:50what's that app from the guy in Germany thats just just like a friend and all

2:10:54the references I like secrets or just from the guy who made Quiksilver

2:10:58internet shared database of this type of things with a million applications you

2:11:03know either show you what those commands are or run for a I think again I i think

2:11:13its obvious but that this interface is so clearly defined designed retina first

2:11:21and how it looks on non random acts is you know we'll make the best of it but

2:11:27it's so clearly a retina first design and I guess I should have it should have

2:11:34been a sign when we saw it at the BBC it should have been a sign that read like

2:11:39this would be the year we're gonna get red IMAX because I don't think it's a

2:11:42coincidence that their debuting at the same time as as an interface that so

2:11:48clearly is meant to be seen on the retina display but even if we weren't

2:11:53getting around desktop Macs this year they still have to design a friendly gas

2:11:57to be forward-looking no sense in making a brand new look for the Mac at this

2:12:01point in time even if right now we're gonna go over two years you just have to

2:12:05you have to say it like you have to be forward-looking about the SEC which is

2:12:08why I hope to god whatever new filesystem Apple must surely be working

2:12:12on is made entirely with SSDs in my like screw spinning disks I know this time

2:12:15around I know people can use it for years but if you're doing something now

2:12:18you have to be forward-looking yeah I totally agree that it's a good point

2:12:23that it would make sense maybe even make it so that doesn't even run on an honest

2:12:28nine assists easy to use a plus to the end of time on your spinning hard deaths

2:12:34don't smoke them a chance to really something I think that the choice of

2:12:39Helvetica Neue in particular is is the clearest sign that it's meant to be seen

2:12:47on rent first cuz it as I look at yosemite on a non it's the type that

2:12:52really annoys people upset that I didn't make more of that in my review and the

2:12:58reunited make marvelous excite truly believe most people will not even notice

2:13:02I know that is inconceivable to those of us who are like diapers and I'm not even

2:13:05that big of time murder but it bothers me on random acts and it's not like and

2:13:10you might you might have not read the max for a while right but like but even

2:13:15I i'm not as bothered by it as you aren't as many BR but I truly think

2:13:19regular people will just absolutely not noticed the text even if you put side by

2:13:24side they know people are just not sensitive maybe if you had changed like

2:13:29brush Script alike you know Cairo people would notice but not noticed you change

2:13:35from one sensor on to another cycle notice I noticed that it's not really a

2:13:41vatican noise it's it's a system fun I found where it lives must be somewhere

2:13:46in / library and used to be available in the File menu in the early eighties when

2:13:51they took it out of there but yes hiding in the end and 21 not for any reason

2:13:55like makes sense sir Michael well we want to make a readable system because

2:14:00they had to make the metrics match so it's kind of it's kind of perverted by

2:14:02the need to match metric so I think it's basically a clearer than it needs to be

2:14:07so it's the same with our closest possible I think that's exactly it's

2:14:12well and it works a little better and it's a little bit of a concession or not

2:14:17even a little bit I actually know that they spent an awful lot of time once

2:14:20they decide okay we're gonna go to have addict and we still got all of these nan

2:14:24Ren maximum support for years to come and in some cases they might even be

2:14:28selling for years to come

2:14:30right you know who knows when the Mac Pro is going to be able to support Apple

2:14:35branded retina displays

2:14:37MacBook Air rumors say is gonna go read there soonish but it's you know it's

2:14:45gotta support on rent them for a long time they spend a lot of time tweaking

2:14:50the metrics not just to make it match loosen up but also to make sure that as

2:14:57you know that it at the sizes that it's used as a system fun that it hits the

2:15:02pics are boundaries as often as possible

2:15:05hello and hello becomes just one big indistinct blurred looks like I'm really

2:15:09sick capitalized or something right I get my favorite example so there's a lot

2:15:13of a lot of apps it's a standard menu and cocoa the Format menu in the menu

2:15:18bar if you look at least on a Retina display and I don't have a yosemite

2:15:22non-random retina display at least the are in the end there's clearly some

2:15:28space between them whereas if you just open a text edit documents at the fun

2:15:32tell him that i annoy like 1618 or whatever it is and type the word format

2:15:37are in the AM gonna touch and it's gonna look you know unless you know you know

2:15:42it's just one of those you just have to know the word you can't tell which ones

2:15:45the AM in with you know it all looks like a bunch of humps next to each other

2:15:49and not a ligature you don't think it's not just that it's that the default

2:15:54caring for Helvetica Neue is tight enough that the Word format at that size

2:15:58is gonna blur together which is one of those things that people don't like it

2:16:03don't like what else like the word window even is sort of currents

2:16:10differently if you use real Helvetica Neue you know the way that the W

2:16:15Slam tennis at the W you know has space next to it with the eye that the the

2:16:19dialogue is it gonna get lost in the W

2:16:22it's very thoughtful I makes me wonder why they don't use that I guess it's

2:16:27cause of the metrics why like on Iowa State is used Helvetica Neue there's no

2:16:31special version of it for the system fun to my knowledge and i was line has

2:16:37essentially these on the iPad Mini yeah waistline has been in red no longer

2:16:43comfortable

2:16:45you know again forward-looking like to make these devices there there are going

2:16:49to be ready soon enough because the screen just enough we know we can do it

2:16:53design and interface specially designed interface that is aimed at a World

2:16:59barreled into icy road because they're going to be that way really soon yeah

2:17:02Fisher syllabus whipped and will call the show because it's been a long time

2:17:10but I i from your review here from my notes on page 16 year old among a

2:17:16certain set of Mac enthusiasts it was a point of pride to have many rows of

2:17:20icons filling the startup screen that's a reference to the classic Mac OS where

2:17:25the whole section where you're talking about old style extensions that just ran

2:17:30into memory space of every app or in the system space you know the system as

2:17:35always all the same system and i was just wondering memory region carved up

2:17:41into pieces and I made me laugh because I remember thinking about that

2:17:46like when I first started becoming a Mac nerd it was absolutely a point of pride

2:17:50to have as many of those possible but there there was like if you kept going

2:17:55and became more informed a little bit more mature it started becoming at the

2:18:00highest levels it became more of a point of pride to have its few of those things

2:18:03is possible that the pride in having a lot of them wasn't so much that your

2:18:08machine Michelle tricked out but that you had figured out the correct low

2:18:10daughter and incompatibility that you can actually run this many and they all

2:18:14worked because there was always likely gotta love this first and this has to be

2:18:17here and these two are talking about a lazy enabled us when you have to disable

2:18:20these do but this when you can still keep moving after that like it's a

2:18:23conflict catcher is made for like that not only did you had all the software

2:18:28that you had figured out how to make it into a stable system and then yet

2:18:31eventually you get sick of spending your time playing with conflict catcher you

2:18:35like to really need Adobe Type Manager doing really really need to have any fun

2:18:38still actually like you know something's gotta go

2:18:41managers big so a team goes out the door as she always had to run a 10 doing I

2:18:47was doing design work but ATM was a good example where is the character we had

2:18:52everybody I mean it shipped from Adobe with like I think the tilde character

2:18:55and front like the extension till killed the ATM because on the old Mac OS till

2:19:01this sorted alphabetically first because it had to load first or was it last but

2:19:09did you know that and and putting funny characters pretty things in your Apple

2:19:14menu folder how many items sold it to me

2:19:17yeah but that was a very different world tonight but that if you live through

2:19:23that you you understand like the whole thing with extensions like I was someone

2:19:33down the whole time right and we're all that we were on ways to extend the

2:19:37system like keyboards or like bad having share powell's include our stuff in it

2:19:41all these things like ammonia way do so that it may be a way to do it for iOS

2:19:45right but on a Mac even an OS 10 we don't have these memory patching

2:19:49essential we had we had all sorts of people have found ways using simple

2:19:52extensions or remark injected get your coat in there like this automatic needed

2:19:57extensions I was 10 has extensions and the reason that Apple said we're gonna

2:20:01make the suspension system priority is going to be safe and sandbox know that

2:20:04you know things are doing we're also gonna do it for the Mac because this

2:20:08part of the unification of the platform why should we not have you can't deceive

2:20:13can't be sorting out ways to extend again to craft your way and it's kind of

2:20:18dangerous but we don't need to bother with that number ttyl max anyway the new

2:20:21Apple is it we have an awesome way to make extensions were gonna deployed

2:20:26everywhere the Mexican again I was gonna get it if there's a way to do it on the

2:20:29watch that's going to get it too and that's that's a different philosophy and

2:20:33like if you lived through the bad old days of these are two rows of icons you

2:20:37understand and deepen your bones what is wrong with letting other people software

2:20:40enter your memories racing school with your applications and so any type of

2:20:45extension mechanism that avoids all those evils yes please bring it to the

2:20:48Mac not because we can't get

2:20:50you know extensions now we have all these weird extensions that can do weird

2:20:53things your Mac even in August and we just want better ones we don't we don't

2:20:57want to be one never want to be close to re-creating that bad old world of those

2:21:00those rows of icons yeah we want the future and it's but we don't know if

2:21:05you're technically informed at all you don't want the buggy ramifications and I

2:21:12backed off like I used a lot more memory passing mention the early days of those

2:21:1610 lot of it to you know backfill functionality that wasn't in the OS

2:21:19itself and I just slowly pair of those things down like I ran application

2:21:23extent answer AP from the insanity guys around for years and years within a

2:21:27certain point it was like enough is enough

2:21:30I'm only using it for 12 things I can't live without them like a window shades

2:21:34last month ago so I really truly love that I wish I could get it back now but

2:21:37clean hooks into the OS but the real API is that don't involve invading memory

2:21:42space of another process that's what we've always wanted the whole time and

2:21:46now Apple's only providing that so I hope every every existing Apple

2:21:50mechanism is there still wants Apple supported ones like a no text input

2:21:54methods and also those things that actually will load you put something in

2:21:56a special folder you lunch application and the friendly cocoa frameworks will

2:22:00look in that folder thing and loaded into the application and you're supposed

2:22:02to be well behaved and not do anything nasty and you know but like not supposed

2:22:07to implement something that changes when you double-click at the top of any

2:22:12window yeah but like once you're in there like that's why you know scripting

2:22:15additions were like a gateway into the thinkers simple extensions like you know

2:22:20we have all these things but some of them are officially out even like the

2:22:24menu bar icons someone was trying to correct me if I'm pretty sure someone

2:22:28can send a correction to you that if you write a badly behaved menu bar you know

2:22:33I contact thing you can press a crash system UI server because you're kind of

2:22:36in the mix their maybe maybe that's not the case now if you'd asked at a bar set

2:22:40of the item instead of the new actress thing that supposed to be undocumented

2:22:45but there's still lots of officially supported Apple things where you can get

2:22:49your code into someone else's memory space and all those mechanisms I would

2:22:52like them to make

2:22:53a officially supported you know separate process extension mechanism like all

2:22:58that you know the ones that are near 70 because I like all that functionality

2:23:01elected even better if you can make it safer so that badly behaved extension

2:23:05can crash my appt the the part of your review that I thought I was a little

2:23:11surprised he spent as much space on it was swift and after reading it made all

2:23:18the sense in the world and I thought it was really really good I thought it was

2:23:20you know but that's why I like your reviews is your you always surprise me

2:23:24with something good I didn't anticipate your writing that much about swift

2:23:27because I didn't see swift as you seventy feature I just saw it as

2:23:30something that coincidentally was it 2014 thing that Apple did and you know I

2:23:35S 870 just happened to be the first new OS is that you know that you can right

2:23:40now that's like an ATP like I found myself in WVC sitting in metal sessions

2:23:47and taking notes right like what am I doing this isn't this is an interesting

2:23:51technology medals for iOS only like why am I even bought but like it's because I

2:23:55was starting to view everything that Apple did not as like oh this is a Mac

2:24:00technology this is an Irish technology but like these are Apple's platform

2:24:03technologies and even though medals in on the Mac now there's no reason it

2:24:06can't be in the future and even though so after not specific to extend its just

2:24:09as applicable to a standard that is the iOS right i mean the other reason of

2:24:13course I made as a big section of this is the two recent one there's always

2:24:17something that I put in their view that I know almost nobody cares about the

2:24:21data right oblique the disproportionate amount about maybe not as much as I like

2:24:25you know I read a whole section on launch day at one point no one has been

2:24:28launched except for me so you know like that it was interesting to me and I like

2:24:33I I give myself that I in the second thing is cuz I have a personal history

2:24:36with like the whole clamoring for a new language and everything and I have my

2:24:40say I was going to do it and I always tell people I think your take is

2:24:44interesting and it's the reaction that people at large have had to Swift is

2:24:49curious to me because I see an awful a person's WBC and continuing until now I

2:24:55see an awful lot of criticism

2:24:58from developers of about swift it to me just seems uncalled for

2:25:05like it's it's the first version they just came out with it it's going to get

2:25:09better

2:25:10like all programming languages do like the thing is though is that they're

2:25:15showing it to us by Apple standards extraordinarily early and letting us

2:25:21learning are here is what we're thinking you know here's our idea for the next

2:25:25generation language for writing apps for our platforms in a very early stage and

2:25:30then they they've already incorporated a slew of feedback from the outside its it

2:25:36to me in a broad sense it's exactly what we've a lot of us have been hoping to

2:25:40see from Apple not just regarding developer tools but just Apple in

2:25:43general of don't don't be sad you read about this in numerous times they don't

2:25:48just take seven smart people and put them aside and let them work for five

2:25:51years and come out with a thin because no matter how smart they are how

2:25:55talented they are they're going to have their own personal idiosyncrasies are

2:25:59are going to lead them to overlook certain things you know that that they

2:26:04wouldn't if it was exposed to the world at large but now he you know they've

2:26:08they've finished in they've given it to us and here it is right like if they had

2:26:12been working on swift for another two years and then came out with it but said

2:26:16this is it final

2:26:18it wouldn't have incorporated all sorts of things that they're incorporating and

2:26:21about it but they're getting they're getting flak for it like the fact that

2:26:25it's changed so much just since WWDC well I think you've kind of made their

2:26:29arguing for them in some respects this two-part this one is a lot of things

2:26:33about swift are not are fundamental to the philosophy embody byline which

2:26:38mostly having to do with like how how how method calls are bound to like it

2:26:43what implementation happens when I call this method are basically method calls

2:26:46instead of message-passing order philosophically late binding versus only

2:26:50binding and swift is dead bodies have everything statically figured out you

2:26:53know what code what could you know you type something here looks like a

2:26:56function call what implementation is actually runs with wants to know compile

2:27:00time Objective C its runtime is like our dynamic dispatch I can figure out what

2:27:05it is you can do method swiveling you can

2:27:07for method names out of strings and call them that philosophical divide is not

2:27:12something that's going to be changed with the tweak to language no swift can

2:27:15use the Objective C wrong time as you if you object knows all the stuff that

2:27:20philosophical divide dynamic versus static that's that's just an a an honest

2:27:26difference between people who like that aspect of Objective C and the people who

2:27:29design swift for saying that type of town guests back to makes whole classes

2:27:34optimization impossible for us because we can't see through the call boundary

2:27:37to understand how we can optimize across across that call is we don't even know

2:27:41what the hell's going to call and so that's a philosophical difference in no

2:27:45matter week is gonna change and the second thing is the idea that they're

2:27:47putting it out early and doing doing these two weeks today that the minor

2:27:50details and stuff like that you know the complaint against that possibly by

2:27:55different people you know I really can't win here to please everybody is that

2:28:00place which is great and all but it would have been like they think that it

2:28:04was basically these guys going off and some smart guys came out with this thing

2:28:07we really would have loved to have you had built a major application with this

2:28:11language first and then presented to us like give you a dog food today

2:28:14longer because if your dog food and you would have found all the same exact

2:28:18things were finding like how many times they tweaked out interacts with like a

2:28:21core foundation in Objective C API like the various idioms of how'd because they

2:28:26didn't write no new framework they need his language or existing frameworks in

2:28:30the end it's not quite an exact match they have to come up with conventions

2:28:33like when you call one of these things we're gonna do this summer and like all

2:28:36these different dimensions how to handle in a terrible grammar errors and mapping

2:28:40between optionals which exists in swift and like nail and optional like that in

2:28:45Objective C how to be crosses boundaries if they had used swift to write a major

2:28:50application that this is so the argument goes they would have figured a lot of

2:28:55stuff out on their own instead of bringing out bringing out to a so early

2:28:59it seems like this has kept him really private to a small group of people and

2:29:02now you're throwing on top of us go it's not ready now that's kind of self

2:29:06countries I want you want you want to really do want to be done

2:29:09you don't you want to have feedback but different people want different things

2:29:13is not like a single person is trying to ask people to do things that are

2:29:17completely contradictory its different groups of people on different things so

2:29:20yeah I mean I think I think it would look like in 1989 whatever I wanted to

2:29:26see it looks like now and like the end that the pace of development of

2:29:29electricity has accelerated so much in the past few years that I'm willing to

2:29:33give swift a lot of leeway to get things right but philosophically speaking if

2:29:39you have a disagreement like you know the dynamic dispatch anything like that

2:29:42that I don't see you know that's just going to have to be in a disagreement I

2:29:46don't think that's going to change that much you know 'cause that's like the

2:29:49ideas like is a dynamic by defaulting to get tied down or sit static by default

2:29:53and you can make it dynamic and very much and then the campus static by the

2:29:57fault and you have the ability to make certain things dynamic and other people

2:29:59I know you got the default should be the other way but it's a comin for ya

2:30:04reading your your review and and what you had to say about swift and I i love

2:30:09it to me it's it's you know the right way to have about this like you even

2:30:14admit that there's aspects of the language that you as a programmer aren't

2:30:18your liking

2:30:19you're not you don't like having you know the Senate typing but you don't you

2:30:29don't take that as therefore it bad right

2:30:32statically typed languages or bad it is a perfect you know that's so much of the

2:30:37internet is is not being able to acknowledge ok I disagree with that I

2:30:41dislike that but that I i cant knowledge that that is a valid valid philosophy to

2:30:48house and especially since they stated their goals this is the type of language

2:30:53we want to make and you can evaluate how well this is achieved their own stated

2:30:57goals and then you can also like like it a lot of the argument against website

2:31:01maybe you disagree with the goals then fine then what you say is you should

2:31:04never tried to make a language that is is convened a scripting language but you

2:31:08can write how s because you you make a crappy like a jack of all trades master

2:31:12of none like feel free to argue with the premises in the mission statement but

2:31:15that is a separate argument which you can have from if I accept this mission

2:31:19statement you know how well this will fulfill that mission and what were the

2:31:25how to do it like that the most interesting thing to me because I think

2:31:28the mission is incredibly ambitious like I said

2:31:30only an apple move like it is very gutsy and very ambitious and not cuz it's not

2:31:35doing whatever it seemed really wanted to like just make me a better nicer

2:31:39Objective C that's all I want don't try to make some crazy language that you

2:31:42think you can use for everything I could you could you know because if you look

2:31:45at the software stack like you have things that are written in C and even in

2:31:49C++ and then you have things that are in Objective C and why are these three

2:31:53languages there well for the really low level stuff like the current all in like

2:31:56it maybe even like you know CoreFoundation and then we have the C

2:32:00and C++ of those things but them like the higher-level former soldier in

2:32:03Objective C and so if the saying why can't we have one language that spans

2:32:06the whole range of 19 which may be wrong about the colonel in just yet but we

2:32:10could have really wanted to because we wouldn't have to worry about a

2:32:13performance hit right because it can be as fast as a low-level languages but it

2:32:17can go all the way up to hey you just want a bunch of stuff and you know you

2:32:20wanna do you know

2:32:22hashed bang user been swift and just start typing and you want to create you

2:32:26want to create a string just by typing you know quotation mark

2:32:31here's the string like all the things we love about JavaScript Perl or Python and

2:32:38make one language its fans that whole range because it's an ambitious goal and

2:32:42it would be great for Apple they can pull it off like hey finally we don't

2:32:45have to hire C developer C++ object to see developers and maintaining compile

2:32:50data compiled three different standards yes i-ninety diocese lost 11 and

2:32:54whatever the hell we doing to Objective C if we just make one language that we

2:32:58control everything about that it's our thing that spans the entire range of

2:33:00things

2:33:01boy wouldn't that be amazing and maybe they're biting off more than they can

2:33:04chew but I admire the ambition and my question is how the hell you gonna do

2:33:07that and so I wanted to delve into how do you make a language is easy to make

2:33:12the parts that you type like you could just a blah blah blah our language will

2:33:15have this here's the key word here is a syntax and then go to track empower them

2:33:19extends out into code that runs that's the hard part you know how do you how do

2:33:23you get from something looks like JavaScript up early review Python but as

2:33:27fast to see and that's what I spent the entire second was rude delving into

2:33:31because I think it's interesting and definitely a change of pace from the way

2:33:36Apple has done to you know compiler software

2:33:39and certainly a change of pace from the way JavaScript when times are

2:33:42implemented or Java runtime certainly Ruby Python Perl that stuff yeah it's

2:33:47it's evident and it's funny because you know so many Apple employees are just

2:33:52never in public and never named and you know how they're inside the company but

2:34:00you know because Chris Lattner started LVM project outside Apple you know and

2:34:06then they marlys it wasn't a company is an open source project but they

2:34:10effectively Akwa hired him when they bought it you know they effectively

2:34:15bought the open source project when they brought him on board but he's you know

2:34:20that's clearly to be you know it's very obvious like you said that there have

2:34:24been in the rate of change of objective see improvements over the last few years

2:34:28has been impressive well it coincides with the LLVM here and they got the

2:34:34complaint they took control of the compiler brother you know what they've

2:34:38shown in control the key technologies for a platform to compile is one of

2:34:40those technologies wire using gcc it's hampering our ability to extend the

2:34:44language temporary and optimizes hampering their ability to make sure I D

2:34:47that is multi multi year transition slowly slowly getting away from Dec to

2:34:53be fully on LVM based compiler and then like they're off to the races and it's a

2:34:57you said you have to look back to what are the goals of the project GCC is a

2:35:01fantastic project it is one of the most successful computer science projects in

2:35:07history but its stated goal is to be a universal compiler for any and all

2:35:13platforms and the fact that it succeeded at that is why it was there for next to

2:35:19use when they started bolting on Objective C features to see back in the

2:35:25eighties it's the fact that GCC was there and aimed to be universal was the

2:35:32reason that they can get it to work but then the fact that it's universal and

2:35:36it's apparently convolution oh really really impenetrable old code base

2:35:42eventually just really hampered their ability to move forward and it was also

2:35:47old like as an old code base and and and anything you did its kind of do anything

2:35:52W three see you know anything you did icon has to be your needs aren't the

2:35:57only needs here there are other stakeholders you gotta have to get

2:36:00agreement from all parties involved in this is a thing that you want to do

2:36:03because there's just one codebase whereas Apple doesn't anyone's ok to do

2:36:06it the hell they want with their compiler and it's not quite like that

2:36:10those clang and that's not that's a C C++ compiler those are open source there

2:36:14are other people that are using them Apple can just do whatever the hell they

2:36:17want with that type of things that made it up with a forecast of the people of

2:36:20their sentence that there but thus far Swift is not open source and not open

2:36:25that's another issue people out with language it's entirely there's I don't

2:36:30know if that will change in the future I know there are people inside Apple who

2:36:33wanted to be open source but there are you know that is not high on their

2:36:36priority list apparently like right now they just get out the door get get

2:36:41yosemite out the door

2:36:42get the language in ship shape and then revisit this issue in the future I don't

2:36:46think they're do anything like that until it settles down and tell us you

2:36:51know swift of this year is nearly identical to Swift last year to say I

2:36:56don't think they need to like that that is I can understand that desire to do

2:37:01that like the motivation like what makes you feel like let's just you know was

2:37:04tabled until we get our stuff together

2:37:07compared to WebKit WebKit was like you know open because it came from Kate's

2:37:13email it was always open and did it didn't impact like we don't wanna make

2:37:16you don't want to show it to the world

2:37:18cells now they show it to the world as soon as a noun Safari and it was

2:37:21definitely shaky and we are not doesn't seem to have hurt web development so I

2:37:24think it can be done is just a question of the question of priorities and like

2:37:29their Apple has never been the greatest open-source citizen in terms of like you

2:37:32have complete access to our repository c/o changes in real time they just dumps

2:37:36like them do their work it's hidden away and then they released a product based

2:37:39on an is an open-source dump and that is not really the way that everyone wants

2:37:46open source said sure better than ever changing the code all the gist of it is

2:37:51the more I learn about swift and you know get past the intro you know chapter

2:37:57one of the script programming book just hello world I programs it's it's evident

2:38:03that it is exactly what you would think it is it's a language designed by a

2:38:07compiler guy which is interesting I compile a guy who'd like C++ a little

2:38:13bit

2:38:13clearly comes through a little bit of the amazon has the bus + like it's

2:38:20obviously everyone they use anyone anyone who uses any language for a long

2:38:26period of time comes to hate that language but also kind of like it a lot

2:38:31longer use it the more you just like the part that you hate is great and you but

2:38:34you also kind of like it so it's like Swift has a lot of the things in a year

2:38:38like this person clearly hates a lot of features about C++ but also kinda think

2:38:42some of them are kind of okay and just like just like boy which they have been

2:38:45done differently

2:38:46yeah but it's it's it's so obvious I think the details you delve into make a

2:38:51lot of these things clear where it's never academically precocious it's not

2:38:57this is clever this you know which is when you and I were younger lot of the

2:39:01new languages where we're doing her small talker list yeah exactly the

2:39:06mathematical error haskell these days well list predates us fruitless from the

2:39:10fifties but there in that that that whole derivatives that whole realm of

2:39:15languages Dylan's a perfect example cuz it was I think it came up in the

2:39:19nineties but you know it was academically interesting but it was

2:39:23curious viewpoint on something like how and how would you make mac toolbox calls

2:39:29from Delon try to pursue it as like the whole purpose of this languages like you

2:39:33have to we have to be able to call into the both of you know what they're

2:39:37calling it a C C++ and Objective C frameworks that already exist

2:39:40alright so you know we have to be able to work with like NSObject in the

2:39:43Objective C runtime and by the way we also even though it's a memory safe

2:39:47thing by the fall they also have to wait to do it

2:39:49unsafe point because sometimes we do that like totally pragmatic music and

2:39:54can't afford to do anything else like the mission statement is to be his

2:39:56language expands your dreams and its fans huge range because guess what Apple

2:40:01has a bunch of existing code

2:40:03in that huge rain and if you want to interface with it or someday replace

2:40:06that you have to spend the same range and they get to use three languages you

2:40:09get four languages are depending on you can't like you know C++ C Objective C

2:40:15and unlike shell scripting or Python or whatever you want to try to spend that

2:40:20whole range you're gonna have to be pragmatic about what you're willing to

2:40:24do to your beautiful language and it's you know a lot of the languages that are

2:40:28popular were not designed by compiling slurry wall was not a compiler you know

2:40:34he was a replacement for like a bunch of shell scripts and you know Dr and said

2:40:40talk and you know is I would just he more or less it was here's the syntex

2:40:45I'd like to be able to write to do these things and then he made a thing that did

2:40:48them and I think you know you said on ATP than a lot of sin for decades after

2:40:54there's a lot of work of all how do we make this crazy language fast not so

2:40:58much repairable JavaScript syntax looks kinda like john was not really and by

2:41:03the way will make some way to run it right and it adds there was no

2:41:06consideration to how to make it fast and then the result was an interesting

2:41:09language that was pretty approachable for most people who can program and that

2:41:13was dreadfully slow and it's been said millions of dollars and fight for 345

2:41:20major generations of how are we actually going to run JavaScript you know to get

2:41:25to where we are today where it runs at a reasonable speed whereas swift you know

2:41:29being written by a compiler guy maybe the preeminent compiler guy in the world

2:41:33today has just reached from top to bottom of this is going to be fast and

2:41:39she was written by compiling I still like the languages that look like

2:41:42portable assembly like where you can see where a massive it's not that rare for

2:41:46Lancashire written by compiling I but it's rare for a high-level language

2:41:49right well that's exactly it that's exactly it where it

2:41:52facts he looks like it's written by a compiler because it looks that it looks

2:41:56like compiler input looks like like an intermediary form you could even squint

2:42:03at it and see the assembly code that corresponds a special disc CD is back in

2:42:07the day yeah especially if you look at older seko

2:42:11you know from the seventies and eighties before it some of the you know slightly

2:42:15higher level features I got added you know later versions

2:42:20it on its sleeve it's it's you know this is made to be easy to compile and you

2:42:26shouldn't you should read you probably didn't because really long but one of

2:42:29the things one of the many many many things are going to review was a link to

2:42:32that awesome WebKit blog post about the fourth fourth tier LVM optimizer for

2:42:39JavaScript try actually reading the whole article because they like they

2:42:44take you through it it's really really well written and they really just a

2:42:47piece at a time and you probably got like 50% 60% through it and realize the

2:42:51haven't even gotten to the part that tells you the new thing they did

2:42:53everything they've described so far that is blowing your mind is existing

2:42:57JavaScript optimization features they haven't even gotten to the fourth tier

2:43:00part like the hoops to jump through May JavaScript fast just to make your head

2:43:05spin like every one of them seem so incredibly dangerous that they will be

2:43:09invisible to try and seems impossible to get everybody to work and yet that's her

2:43:13all running on our web browsers and it's on every platform every day every piano

2:43:21and probably mean right I don't see any way out of it for the rest of her life

2:43:25JavaScript is gonna be a part of my life on the planet living for a long time but

2:43:29you gotta go with dark and everything like people that runs out of time to

2:43:33time if anybody ever gets like like you know Bitcoin ever ever gets hundreds

2:43:38more than 50% of the compute power of anyone ever gets like dominant market

2:43:42share my brothers again which doesn't look like it's gonna happen but hey who

2:43:45knows they could replace they know someone could seize the moment until I

2:43:49Google is trying to try but don't like we have a popular browser have but

2:43:52everyone right darn we can pre compile it and it's like JavaScript enabled to

2:43:55be in like sorry you don't have that kind of pull their jobs but I don't put

2:44:02out of even like when I like a swift I made a few sly illusions and things like

2:44:07there is no reason that Apple couldn't say oh and by the way you can just like

2:44:14you can write dark and the run

2:44:15Google Chrome wherever you can put swift code and he and his you load your in

2:44:21your web pages instead of JavaScript and when we load them we will compile the

2:44:25source code and keep the compiled version will be much faster than jobs

2:44:28good because it's on that level of like not that much worse to use in JavaScript

2:44:32libraries are not up to snuff or whatever but or even just server-side

2:44:36web programming like the places where Smith control is not not constrained in

2:44:40the same way as as Objective C or any other languages so if Apple ever want to

2:44:46make that move and say you know you can use Javascript or you can use its best

2:44:52to do it like if you're gonna make like I S only web app where you knew the

2:44:56target platform can do that with a result in library that's in the in the

2:45:00browser you know with a buncha niceties compiler gets fast enough like there are

2:45:06many things that are possible when this is very new baby swift starts getting

2:45:11mature like it if they succeed in their goal to make a language that spans this

2:45:14range and that is able to be fastened everything there's all sorts of places

2:45:17like even just down to like the stupid shell scripts and Perl scripts they had

2:45:21that are buried inside the installer packages also offer an OS 10 if its west

2:45:27had a file i/o library that was worth a damn instead of having to use coke

2:45:31overstuffed like the language doesn't preclude that they could they could make

2:45:35change all the scripts like you can really make one big unified language or

2:45:38can turn out the ten years now we turn I was followed to try to spend that

2:45:40language was one language and didn't work out well and it makes me curious

2:45:44funny too it makes me think it's one of those things where it was like you know

2:45:48in turn inside out a lot of people don't know what was almost nobody knew that's

2:45:52what was going on everybody I talked to a couple was surprised by Swiss

2:45:55announcement as we were excited like what what to me it's an unfortunate

2:46:02coincidence that it also happened to be the year that the automation group added

2:46:08JavaScript support as an alternative to Apple's crap everywhere you could write

2:46:12a prescription now you can write JavaScript it seems to me like a better

2:46:15idea might have been to hold off on that

2:46:17and wait until you can do in swift just like with the with the JavaScript

2:46:23automation the OSA script thing you can use the Javascript automation 22 content

2:46:28injects a library the lows Ruby and your own review code for languages in one

2:46:33command line like all things business all these weird bridges from from apples

2:46:39from JavaScript John's graduation you can load Objective C libraries and from

2:46:43senator to see that race you can go to Ruby things I guess from the Ruby Coco

2:46:46thing or whatever it is quiet and then just us with into that makes two they

2:46:50can interoperate with Objective C as well yeah I guess so but it seems to me

2:46:57like the future I'm always happy when the automation stuff has any new

2:47:01features because I'm always afraid that they gonna should turn the lights down

2:47:05south group but so much that they have libraries life share nowadays I I only

2:47:16say that because I just know that a high-level Apple's interest isn't there

2:47:19I'm not saying that your effort into the last couple of years haven't been good I

2:47:22think the last couple of years have been great script libraries have been great

2:47:25they've been you know and I think adding JavaScript is supported languages great

2:47:29I just can't help but think though that in the long run there be more script

2:47:34written in automation scripts written in swift then Apple script or out

2:47:39job script for all those things in the reason you can have a different

2:47:42languages the problem is not the language except maybe Java JavaScript

2:47:45cigarettes language to people who want like a regular programming language

2:47:49problem is the problem is the API for talking to me that's the hard part is

2:47:53like you gotta figure out what is that what is a dictionary support how do I

2:47:56can I do what I need to do

2:47:58can address this window in a way that is reliable can I get it that the element

2:48:02in this window kinda like it's all down to how scriptable the application and

2:48:06the languages just like a minor implementation detail at that point most

2:48:10of the time you're fighting with the scripting dictionaries of the apps will

2:48:13they even let you do what you want to do and what kind of weird hoops you have to

2:48:16jump through well I just think you know that if they if they can eventually get

2:48:19it to be swift to be easier to call into

2:48:22like if you wanted to put like near board version and sounds as if filed

2:48:30with your script that it's you know it would be a lot more just like since Coco

2:48:36already uses it it would be easier to call from the scripting side to it was

2:48:39the same language now but then you kind of doing actual real application

2:48:43development like you're not even call you start to send Apple that's right I

2:48:47guess so I don't know I mean I do now I don't know your call natively into that

2:48:52you know I don't know the automation story is always been a little weird I

2:48:57think it is making progress in recent years so I'm kind of optimistic about it

2:49:01I like the idea of like when they renamed AppleScript editor script editor

2:49:04and now actually when you launch it you can pick which language you want to be

2:49:08your default and each window has a little pop-up menu that says it's a

2:49:11script editor do on a great Apple scripts for JavaScript or scripts quite

2:49:17yet but like it's poised to OSA was always supposed to be multilanguage but

2:49:21for the longest time it was like multilanguage in theory and now its

2:49:24final multilanguage in actuality again so finally it is violence that's an

2:49:32actual 9 around on on iraq finally yeah this probably other languages that

2:49:37people have been using like people don't use frontier anymore but that was one of

2:49:41them well and there was JavaScript mark called rid of late night software that

2:49:46guy behind script to bugger and he had faced ban for a while he had a

2:49:51javascript OSA that was built as JavaScript engine that did work but it

2:50:00never really took off and it cuz I think it's the sort of thing where had to come

2:50:03from Apple to really take off and there were certain witnesses that that using

2:50:09javascript instead of a postscript you ended up with tangled syntax that was

2:50:13like why would take Apple to fix it because I kinda added you know how to be

2:50:18fixed at the OS a level not at the language there has always been a little

2:50:23bit weird I mean it's like you just the languages are so different how can you

2:50:27how can you call the same things and it's always just you know especially

2:50:30when you're calling that other libraries again because like you know JavaScript

2:50:33important objective see stuff like to see calls but named parameters but John

2:50:37doesn't have named parameters see all these magical things just like the the

2:50:40Python Coco bridges they've had everything we're but always say is

2:50:45always going to be crossed the whole point of its own script architecture

2:50:49always comes back to Apple script anyway that we've gone on long enough I think

2:50:56it's been a good show I I love your review and ATP is my favorite show

2:51:04thank you really is and it's all because of you I was no make up for that of

2:51:08course I like Casey I like Marco but what is interesting about the ATP is it

2:51:14you guys often disagree maybe even usually one of three views gonna

2:51:18disagree and whenever there's an argument and I'm listening and I know

2:51:22everybody out there people often tell me this is like everybody listen to podcast

2:51:25noses feeling we're like somebody will say something and you want to jump in

2:51:28and you know either correct something they said was wrong or point out the

2:51:33logical conclusion of where this is going

2:51:34and I think that makes ATP my favorite show is that you're always there to do

2:51:39it and it's so satisfying I think I gotta gotta right to these guys and tell

2:51:43them that reminds me of something and as soon as you have a chance chance chance

2:51:47to jump in nine times out of ten you say exactly what it is that I was hoping

2:51:50somebody would say otherwise I'm just complaining one of the aftershocks

2:51:55recently I think I treated you bad like when you're talking about the 16 gigs of

2:51:59flash which are going to talk about an hour in the iOS devices around the house

2:52:03terrible like we recorded an ATP and I called that move like a punitive moving

2:52:08out this part and then you before we could pose to show you either posted a

2:52:12blog post about it what do you call that punitive

2:52:14released a podcast over you called the punitive it's like god damnit like this

2:52:18we both said the same thing but yours got out first

2:52:22yeah I know I know the feeling I get when I hear you up I guess it I think

2:52:27the same thing like we tend to think and say the same things and then it's like

2:52:31half the time you're excited the other person chiming in with what you would

2:52:36have said if you're there and the other half the time you like I was just

2:52:38thinking that credit for that idea we die we should go online about it but we

2:52:44can talk about the 16 things quickly but I think if you want to stop dancing

2:52:49around the the the Elephant Room I think the bottom line is that you mention it

2:52:53but it all comes down to is it is a beer in the back of our heads that this is

2:52:59Tim Cook thing because it really only makes sense I think it makes perfect

2:53:03sense if you're staring at the spreadsheet of component costs and

2:53:07profit margins and the combine that with a projection of how a 1664 128 spread

2:53:19would push X number of people to get 64 instead of the lower price model than in

2:53:25a 32 64 128 scenario from a spreadsheet perspective it makes perfect sense I

2:53:32completely understand every aspect of it but in every other way it is to me it's

2:53:38a boneheaded mistakes the same guy going on all the talk shows and TV stations

2:53:43and talking about how Apple doesn't do moves that a short term is dragging for

2:53:47short-term stock market game its long-term thing you're never sorry

2:53:50saying all the right things but like this make steaks and they said we're

2:53:53talking about this

2:53:54this decision to go with the 1664 12 in it like this decision was made a long

2:53:59time ago and I think by now when they're having meetings about like I said

2:54:03adoption and storage space stuff like that like hopefully they're going to

2:54:06correct or like they're not perfect and make mistakes I think they may be just

2:54:10miscalculated like they were they were dazzled by all the things that you

2:54:13mentioned like to look at how we can push people to Priceline and it's like

2:54:17an exchange like do we think there a downside to the 16 and they were able to

2:54:22convince themselves of the downsides weren't that big of a deal but like that

2:54:26still selling sixteens and still sign a five with no way for developers to

2:54:30excluded I think the meetings they're having now hopefully they're discussing

2:54:34these things and saying going forward for the next set of things let's not

2:54:37make this particular mistake again

2:54:38let's let's remedy is like there's a big lag time in this type of thing you know

2:54:42again when an account with the that that same range of the iPads in the same

2:54:47range as they can learn that lesson between like no I felt like it's just

2:54:50you know there is a long turnaround time this and I'm hoping that if this is not

2:54:55like you know like them being duplicitous about the philosophy but

2:54:59merely mistakes they will correct going forward I hope so because my fear is if

2:55:03they don't go to 32 next year then they're already going to be too late

2:55:06with 32 and when they do go to 32 its already gonna be the 32 is too little

2:55:10and nothing is it it's on them to get this right because they're they're the

2:55:14company that does not add a nasty card slot there you know iOS devices right

2:55:18now they really and you can't upgraded and so like they really need they really

2:55:22do this right and they're doing things like making cameras that shoot 1080p

2:55:27video really credible 1080p video really good like you're not going to regret

2:55:33that you know the sense this is your footage of your son's first birthday

2:55:39you know the time lapse and burst mode like so many ways you can fill up that

2:55:43start and up and up to 41 megapixel panoramic images which is great but

2:55:49which are huge like count just yeah I remember this was the most recent

2:55:56episode of the one before but it's it's like that and you mentioned it when

2:55:59you're talking about how like you this is the type of device for you have to

2:56:01give caveat we tell people about it it's like all of us told people who want to

2:56:05buy Macs back when I first becoming popular we just always tell them back in

2:56:09the day like you can go get a PowerBook a really awesome make sure you upgrade

2:56:12the RAM this i really don't like trust me by default it comes to an amount of

2:56:16RAM that is ridiculous no end and we also use third party ramp that leads to

2:56:20charge you a ton for it like those stupid cavities tell you how many years

2:56:23to be spending telling people upgrade the RAM don't buy apples ran by

2:56:27third-party it added a complication in the caveat to a recommendation that made

2:56:31its carrier for people and now that that type of thing is creeping back and we're

2:56:36like don't tell by the 16th you're gonna regret it if you're asking me advice on

2:56:39which one you should buy you're the type of person not by the 16 trust me save

2:56:44money for a couple more months and get the you know 64 yeah I just

2:56:48can't I don't know it just irks me that there's and it doesn't bother me quite

2:56:52as much that like the lower end models that the old type you know iPad minis

2:56:57are 16 but it really irks me that the new top of the line one starts at

2:57:02sixteen yeah like this no this is an unsafe model to buy in the flagship

2:57:07iPhone sex right like people who are on the go spend $299 on their iPad are kind

2:57:12of I'm sure going into it with eyes wide open that they know they're not getting

2:57:15the best and that there you know that there's gonna be some limit where

2:57:19anybody buying a new iPad air too I think that they should feel confident

2:57:26that no matter which one they get that it's it's a good it's no good better

2:57:30best and and RAM is the same thing like when they used to sell Mac files with

2:57:34two little rounds that you're only hurting your own image because there was

2:57:36nothing worse than a Mac with spinning disk into little RAM

2:57:40just didn't get better memory compression MS depress the only bump

2:57:43that actually made like the brand you said you get better right but every

2:57:47other thing like three OS versions from now that RAM is going to be at least you

2:57:51could upgrade the RAM to start soldering on Wednesday did starts out and I was

2:57:55glad they bumped everybody up to 16 minimum and everything like they're

2:57:57probably getting on the ball on that but now they just dropped the ball so it's

2:58:01like I've been writing that it's it's like a brand thing and it's you can't

2:58:05measure that on a spreadsheet but the RAM thing with Max 90 180 PU said like

2:58:09four four megabytes of RAM which shows how old the problem I remember one for

2:58:13four megabytes of RAM was the baseline and it was years past word and everybody

2:58:18else in the industry had gone to like 16 but I think even to this day all the way

2:58:25from that Europe when when they were selling max with only four megabytes

2:58:29megabytes of RAM to today that helped fuel the image that so many people have

2:58:36that Apple price gouges people because everybody was told you have to upgrade

2:58:41the RAM and don't mind perhaps don't buy from Apple go two crucial or you know

2:58:45somebody like that and then get someone to install it on search for you and feel

2:58:49like you're breaking your brand new machine because you'd have to do this

2:58:52thing

2:58:53a snap you know it never felt good but when you go and you say like go to

2:59:00crucial crucial has great random Google some reviews and everybody would say yet

2:59:04crucial sells high-quality ram this is this good dinner good memory chips and

2:59:07then you see that you were saving $600 versus what Apple will charge you for

2:59:11the same manner as and it's actually it was actually true that Apple was

2:59:16price-gouging you did you know that Apple gets better prices on the ramp you

2:59:20do or that crucial does and then they win they will be kind of jokes about

2:59:24every like they wouldn't service your machine and third-party ramen in all

2:59:28sorts of crap like that remember those days ya you taken in and they would you

2:59:31would have to you yourself would have to take out your third party RAM and hide

2:59:35it from the right keep it at your desk and antistatic sleeve or something like

2:59:39that and I guess if you replaced all of the RAM I guess you have to let go and

2:59:44find your old apple chips that you replaced and put them back in now and

2:59:48yeah this is not just not a good product experience it shouldn't be like that and

2:59:52like they anything like that just you never wanna sell somebody something that

2:59:57you know three years from now they're gonna hate you for buying

2:59:57you know three years from now they're gonna hate you for buying

3:00:00you should not the base model accord should not have trouble accelerating up

3:00:06until you know may not go anywhere near as fast as the tricked-out high-end

3:00:11model but it still you shouldn't have trouble with common things like driving

3:00:14up the hill to some some baseline level and you don't skimp on things like that

3:00:19especially that a weird an esoteric and let you know as someone who knows a

3:00:23technology again especially with spring discounts such a dramatic effect on

3:00:27performance there is nothing worse than earlier versions of OS 10 swapping it

3:00:31was just nothing it was just it was your performance and go off a giant cliff and

3:00:35there is nothing you can do about it he told people I could just run one

3:00:38application time work with more acid was just like this is not the way it should

3:00:42work and obviously you can't give all the rim of the world every machine but

3:00:45the rest of the industry would slowly march up the minimum and apple with

3:00:49stubbornly stayed at whatever number they decided with the correct number

3:00:52forty years fast when they should yeah and it's it's less excusable now than

3:00:57ever cuz you know that they're getting the economies of scale and that they can

3:01:00get the best prices using the same components I have to get special RAM for

3:01:05their special para pc chips or anything you know right I like you even mentioned

3:01:10it on a TV that there is a story that Apple's consuming like 50 percent of the

3:01:14world's SSD storage 25% of the nanner it was whatever it is but it's it I'm sure

3:01:21that's true and it's impressive but it doesn't you know they're not just buying

3:01:25it in an open market it's not like they're going and they are they're huge

3:01:28input into that they may influence the market they're planning ahead of time

3:01:32for like they'll do know is a few billion dollars build a factory goods

3:01:36we're going to ask you to buy the stuff for us and you'll slowly pay off what we

3:01:39long for the fax like that's that's the way they do all their stuff right so if

3:01:42they wanted to tell people a year ago

3:01:44hey we want to buy X million 32 gigabyte chips because that's what they were

3:01:49gonna put in the iPad there too they could happen every every 16 every 16

3:01:54gigabyte ship that they have could be a 32 gigabyte one if they had wanted it to

3:01:58be or maybe like two years ago when are you gonna lead time to like you know

3:02:01tooling intractable like it but Apple to begin that type of thing Apple is in the

3:02:05position to that they do it all the time

3:02:07they will they will pay for the people to build the capacity of they're going

3:02:10to use to build their projects and get the money back into his probably did it

3:02:14with Taiwan Semiconductor do do de da da I'm sure

3:02:18paying billions and billions of dollars to to make that happen

3:02:22yeah I think that a lot of these decisions are made two years in advance

3:02:26but I think if they wanted to go

3:02:2816 to 32 baseline that's the type of change they could make a little bit not

3:02:33that far away just like the Android phones right a lot of Android phones

3:02:37sell a lot of them sell you know this much flash in the night again you know I

3:02:41just counted the sd-card slot area like that it's not so far outside the realm

3:02:45of anything would be outside the realm would be like these crazy super an iMac

3:02:49display there probably in short supply in that one you really can't say look

3:02:52you know how much you pay which is barely able to make peace now but 1632

3:02:57that is old tack and return shipping with it for years and your smartphone so

3:03:01within reach

3:03:02yeah alright let's call it a show anybody I can't imagine that there's

3:03:07anybody who will listen to this episode who has already read your review but if

3:03:12if are pretending to read it or pretended to read it but if you haven't

3:03:15you should you can do it the right way the right way is to read on the website

3:03:20as the canonical version but I bought a copy for iBooks anyway because I wanted

3:03:24it to be a best-seller yeah you got a long way to go to make up for how many

3:03:28shirts I bought a bunch of cheap man is a $30 for one of these books for the

3:03:36whole family Christmas gift that is right

3:03:38don't don't use family showing just buy a copy for everybody get a lot of it

3:03:43always a pleasure I don't know it's funny because now we have a mini

3:03:46tradition of of you coming on after your your you never asked me on any other

3:03:52times and now you're gonna have to actually think of some of the reasons

3:03:56I'm gonna have to think of another reason you should have to argue with you

3:03:59about filing extensions

3:04:03whether we wouldn't have an argument would we now but I would I felt like

3:04:07that was a case where I heard you were on my side of the debate and I felt like

3:04:11I could have done a better job yeah that foreigner

3:04:15yeah any kind we get into an argument about metadata I'm going to word it far

3:04:21less eloquently as you there are some strong arguments deployed anyway I'll be

3:04:25on the cutting edge over sometime we'll have it out that's what you get when

3:04:31you're from Canada