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85: ‘Oh Man, Soccer’, With Paul Kafasis

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0:00:00do you have that too don't you have that Adam I'm making this up that you've got

0:00:03your your 2nd toast sticks are further than your but now I was called that

0:00:07freaked out when I was little I suppose that means you're going to be

0:00:11financially well off when you when you get older I actually look that up years

0:00:16ago and I think that's like genetically the more common one so having it not be

0:00:21that way as is actually the freeway but it still looks weird to me like you

0:00:24don't have a draw for that way you would never drafted that way but I remember

0:00:29that the tips of my second and third toes would be just blistered the hell

0:00:35and so I would get up earlier would skip breakfast and go to the trainer is

0:00:41certainly being a pro athlete as I get it could stand University in

0:00:45Pennsylvania and you go to the trainer and there was a real college athletic

0:00:49trainer and he would I would like to take razor blades to your blisters doing

0:00:56doing right or is that the treatment I i dont I wouldn't recommend doing it

0:01:05yourself it seems like it was you know like a fine line between cutting off too

0:01:09much of this can into little hurt like hell in the morning and I just feel like

0:01:13I can't

0:01:14is terrible they can even walk but then after a while just sorta you know just

0:01:19get numb to the pain and then you you know play alright never much for summer

0:01:26camp we have a playground like a local playground would run high school kids to

0:01:31supervise from like nine to noon

0:01:35morning and and it'd be like supervised kickball games and box hockey in arts

0:01:41and crafts insurance on that I don't think it was it was like you know this

0:01:47would be like the very late seventies and early eighties I think it was a

0:01:51holdout Ramos smaller simpler America just gonna say it's a simpler time rate

0:01:55where where the municipal the city's town I grew up the municipal government

0:01:59paid for it somehow it was in the school like you did open up a little hallway in

0:02:05school which is next to the playground so the answer is a ping pong table in

0:02:09there you play ping pong when it rained and that's where the battle must have

0:02:13been because you need at least one right there was a bathroom and it cannot a

0:02:17locker locker they'd keep the kick balls in the bases and stuff like that right

0:02:21when they open up at night to like 68 at night or something like that they'd be

0:02:27closed from noon to six and everybody go to the community pool or whatever but

0:02:31nine to noon and 68th Street somehow I guess I guess I don't know why I grew up

0:02:39in a housing development so we had a couple dozen kids all around the same

0:02:45age that that was we started our own makeshift camp I think I didn't know

0:02:49anybody who went to camp camp though I guess that if your parents love you they

0:02:54they keep you around it and I think join us as mixed feelings about it seems like

0:03:00a nice cam and you know they've got he loves to swim they got pool play games

0:03:06and stuff but you know his view is that the inside of our house is sort of like

0:03:10camp got WAY better video games

0:03:13yeah we've got video games and air conditioning and take a bus to get there

0:03:18right

0:03:20refrigerator full cold beverages and about it I we gotta get the show on the

0:03:25road has there's an exciting soccer matches coming up that I really really

0:03:29want to see so is this true

0:03:31no of course it's not as though you're not following world hating every minute

0:03:37of it because I'm a

0:03:38masochist i'm following it did you ever play soccer no I don't like you know Jim

0:03:43soccer and I was happy I never even I never went out for any of the teams or

0:03:47anything you know I didn't seemed interminable to me and I think playing

0:03:52it is way better than watching it and I don't even know about that I don't know

0:03:57I just felt so clumsy to me like it just seemed to me like it seems to me like

0:04:01basketball and soccer are here sports you know two teams are gone four goals

0:04:08there's there's severe limits on how you can touch in advance the ball and it

0:04:13seems like to me always seemed to me like basketball is the one where what

0:04:16what is it that separate us from the other animals it's our hands were

0:04:19purposely not using them in this ones board right well I mean the obvious

0:04:24corollary is really hockey though but hockey manages to be way more exciting

0:04:28than soccer to me and again you get to use your hands a little these to stick

0:04:34that you know Ryan Ryan's think I think Greece is playing today but I god I hate

0:04:42every minute of this I'm glad it's only once every four years to root for the

0:04:46greeks just said of the Heritage family heritage you know my dad really I never

0:04:52cared I you know I was born in America I'm an American but I'm only 50% greeks

0:05:01that's pretty Greek but I I don't really trust me you're pretty you're pretty

0:05:05good you've seen my forearms you were going there I went there

0:05:11what's-his-name Montero's rooting for the Portuguese yeah and he had said he's

0:05:17even serious or just traded it really seemed like trolling and I hope it was

0:05:22because it was either trolling or he is like the worst sports fan I've ever seen

0:05:26worse than you right

0:05:30how could you not be room for the Americans well I mean like if he wants

0:05:33to root for the Portuguese that's alright but like if you follow his

0:05:36Twitter stream during the Portugal USA match it was just

0:05:40I mean it was just you wanna throw some through the wall

0:05:44yeah I I kind of got the feeling he was just trying to complain about the rest I

0:05:51don't think we're in the USA is favored at all I don't think I think it was a

0:05:54well refereed matches any and like on on Dempsey's goal he was he kept calling on

0:05:58all sides and then meanwhile the announcers are not well isn't it wasn't

0:06:03as if there was any question and also the only question one thing in the

0:06:07officiating there was the extra the one extra minute extra went from four to

0:06:12five minutes right right that's when they scored in that and that's when they

0:06:16scored was in the fifth supposedly they're saying that I would I read after

0:06:20the match is that whoever whoever the mysterious referee is who gets to decide

0:06:25how many minutes of extra time there is added another fifth minute so he added

0:06:32one on on the last us' substitution where you ask the guy being substituted

0:06:37was I cross off the field which is possibly justified although I'm from

0:06:43what the announcers said is is a time honored tradition oh well it's horrible

0:06:49I mean this is this is what happened against Ghana the past two World Cups

0:06:53for the us- that you know they got a lead and then they were just everybody

0:06:59was suddenly struck down by injury balls are being kicked out of the stadium we

0:07:04don't have any more about somebody get a pump I mean when I don't I have so many

0:07:11complaints about soccer but the one that really gets me is that we can use the

0:07:14stop button on a stopwatch it is literally called the stopwatch because

0:07:20you can start the time and then you can stop it instead of just letting it run

0:07:25for 45 minutes and then saying there was about two minutes of extra time we need

0:07:29to add it seems it seems like some kind of bizarre antiquated

0:07:35holdover from a hundred years ago right but then meanwhile they've got like

0:07:39like like television crew at least has like the offsides camera that is like

0:07:45showing exactly where the player was with my computer renderings and it's not

0:07:51as if the game has it is the same that it is played in you know a desert in a

0:07:56back alley or something like the game the World Cup games are a professional

0:08:01level we can use a stopwatch properly yeah I don't I don't get that and get

0:08:05why they don't run in simple just stop if the RAF decides hey this is a real

0:08:10injury I'm blowing my whistle then there's a timekeeper who had to read but

0:08:13exactly and then when he blows his whistle again they hit the red button

0:08:16again and then it's ninety minutes and it's ninety minute right and at 9000

0:08:21buzzer goes off in the game as I write this is also the weird thing at the end

0:08:29you know and and you know it was almost almost got to that point in the us-

0:08:34Portugal match where there is no automatic buzzer that goes off there if

0:08:41the team is down by one goal and streaming down the sideline don't blow

0:08:45it away right

0:08:47bothers me just just logically it like as a nerd its annoying like this nature

0:08:53of of the clock and yeah whereas I love I do love and and our mutual friend and

0:08:59he's been slowly getting me more into the game over the years I English

0:09:06you know grew up in some kind of soccer playing country has been preaching to me

0:09:13that it's beautiful you know that it's the beautiful game and there's aspect

0:09:16and there's parts of it that I am getting more into but I do love I love

0:09:20the fact that it's a running clock that it's you know they start a half and for

0:09:25the next 45 minutes you're just watching these guys play well I mean that's

0:09:29that's the great aspect of it that there's no commercials like cutting into

0:09:33the game just a half time for commercials and then they you know and

0:09:37it's funny it's like the nature of the it's just like the web and anything else

0:09:43if you want to sell at the nature of the opportunity the advertisers will find a

0:09:48way so they have those sponsorships along the sideline which are like the

0:09:52way worse than that

0:09:53in hockey are way more noticeable and yeah but its way better than commercial

0:09:56break and all absolutely absolutely well but I think I don't know how much I

0:10:01think that's part of the issue with soccer in america's think there's not

0:10:04nearly as much money in it even with all those ads because it just doesn't ever

0:10:08total up to as much as you would make from selling a few commercial yeah but

0:10:12somehow the Premier League in Europe makes tons of money and that they can

0:10:15afford to pay guys you know it's it's commensurate with us' you know

0:10:20professional sports in terms of the top players salaries in value of the

0:10:24franchise yes well I mean they all come at like Beckham came here to make his

0:10:27money I'm sure he mad but he sort of like you know he's like an A Rod type or

0:10:34its and I don't mean that to be disparaging to a bit but where his

0:10:38celebrity for extended beyond sport yeah you know that he had opportunities that

0:10:43were beyond just as soccer playing ability well I don't know if we didn't

0:10:49do any research says Richard really talk more about soccer podcast with both of

0:10:54us they don't really like soccer the fans are going well but the thing that

0:10:58to me is interesting though in terms of the advertising finding a way is that in

0:11:01the Premier League the teams are sponsored these are like that they have

0:11:06ads on their jerseys don't they

0:11:08great I forget which team is which but I know that I watched a matter now I got

0:11:12tricked into coming months ago and no one had the Emirates Airline airlines

0:11:19are big because their international and that they you know the international

0:11:22appeal of it does makes it a perfect timing right and they just have a bit

0:11:26instead of having the team name on the Jersey it's a big airline logo Jersey

0:11:30which would you know to an american is crazy like I mean if the Red Sox and

0:11:34Yankees had a big logo somebody some of the company's logo to be discussed

0:11:40don't even put their player names on the jerseys cheaters Jersey just says to

0:11:45even try it just says to its his number that's all it says I can't even imagine

0:11:52if it had like a big Pepsi logo

0:11:54but that's the opportunity in the nature of the game is such that there aren't

0:12:00any breaks and so I do like that I like that you can kinda just say ok I wanna

0:12:07watch the USA play somebody and you you know you only have to give up like you

0:12:11know to it throughout exactly two hours and and it just flows like that anyway

0:12:20but make a prediction you think the US's gonna make it into the elimination will

0:12:24tell you what the only reason I'm watching it all because I have a pool

0:12:27going with some friends whose prize is a Landon Donovan World Cup Jersey for the

0:12:35loser of the winner

0:12:37they must have printed these jerseys out before he was the team so we found this

0:12:43on eBay and that's that's gonna be the prize for the winner but so I have them

0:12:48losing I have had Germany and Portugal advancing I don't know I mean they

0:12:54played well against Portugal they could have won that game so should have one

0:12:57thing I've got Brazil winning the whole thing I go home town I go you know one

0:13:01of the best soccer teams and eventually the rest of that form some kind of match

0:13:06and that terrible handball have you noticed I don't know how much of the

0:13:11commercials you seen because there are some during that but there's a FIFA add

0:13:15that is a soccer ball like rolling on a field in the field tilts to be seen this

0:13:21the short of the just the gist of it is is that it's it's a FIFA added it says

0:13:26together we fight match manipulation had to tell the fans like we're fighting

0:13:35against corruption in soccer

0:13:37what did you see that near Times story couple weeks ago South Africa right yeah

0:13:42you know the one that won 34 Ref

0:13:46you know just took like a cash deposit of $120,000 the bank that have been like

0:13:50six hours later was reffing a match right making suspicious call no no no

0:13:58attempt to hide it even the whole thing is broken and well and that it's it's

0:14:05stems from the

0:14:06fact that they picked the referees via international diplomacy where it's hey

0:14:11we need a guy from this part of the country world this part of the world

0:14:15this part of the world as opposed to ranking them which is how at USC sports

0:14:23typically are done like in the NFL for the playoff games there there's like a

0:14:27systematic analysis of which referees were the most accurate in the regular

0:14:32season and those rafts get to ref playoff games and I think it's the same

0:14:37in baseball I think that there's like a veteran teams at least I don't know if

0:14:41it's but if your team is because you've done well right and one thing you could

0:14:46definitely say from major league baseball is for all the problems that

0:14:50they've had over the decade one thing is that there's never really been any kind

0:14:54of implication of other yeah you can complain about but it's never in terms

0:15:03of bias or fixing matches know you just think they're inconsistent with their

0:15:08strike zone or just a lousy umpire but never accredited Buyer they had they

0:15:13truly have an impeccable you know hundred you know century-long reputation

0:15:18or corrupt ability yet being impartial and you take that for granted when you

0:15:26put an ad on its hard to keep this let's move on and i i i said i had a time that

0:15:39I wasn't gonna get into it and I'm not into it but I'm still watching it and I

0:15:43don't talk about it was alright one last thing I thank God they got rid of those

0:15:48goddamn noisemaker israelis' the app you can cut this but those are great for our

0:15:55company because there was a plugin called Google acts and it was an audio

0:16:00plug in the leg you cut out the sound of vuvuzelas and audio hijack pro work with

0:16:04these plugins of people were using this plugin to to remove the author

0:16:09buzzing noise in the background no reason to cut it I don't mind if you can

0:16:16get rid of the addy vuvuzela

0:16:22access fantastic you know it was so annoying that it doesn't surprise me in

0:16:28the least that somebody took the time to play well but I mean that was like an

0:16:32african things I guess they don't have that Brazil I don't know what they have

0:16:35there but nothing quite so they've apparently bandit yeah they do you know

0:16:41that they're telling you as you coming to the stadium that if you're caught

0:16:43with one you're gonna

0:17:10well I like we've done with the place the the studio here it's slim down its

0:17:13sparse you change it up a little bit the set looks different I was looking at the

0:17:20the talk show page now versus I think I was on some time last year you got rid

0:17:26of the wood paneling you got rid of the morphism if you well toned it down to a

0:17:32flat grey thank you very nice to see this where I just think it is like this

0:17:38late breaking news before we started recording that the FAA's but the next on

0:17:43Amazon drug delivery plans

0:17:45well which didn't i mean the drones didn't exist anyway or you know it's not

0:17:49as if this was like they're in the air right now and they're calling them back

0:17:52because of this man I you know I read that article it indicated that this was

0:17:59something that the FAA had already attempted to ban right I guess so I i it

0:18:07occurred to me when Amazon announced this was months ago was it last year

0:18:11earlier this year it it occurred to me that just seems like this it's a cool

0:18:18idea and I could see how in the future this you know this this could be a thing

0:18:22but it's got to be there's got to be some regulatory structure here we you

0:18:27can't just have anybody wants to willy nilly

0:18:31r right especially propeller driven little yeah right right well I mean even

0:18:39when they announced that they said this was i mean they announced it and made a

0:18:42big you know it got a big PR cry and that was what they wanted but it wasn't

0:18:48as if they announce it like coming in six months they said this is coming in

0:18:51several years once we deal with the FAA and so this this story now doesn't

0:18:58really I don't think it really changes anything for Amazon it just sorta

0:19:03clarifies that no you cannot just started to run right it's not it's not

0:19:07happening next week you're not you're not getting drunk deliveries within the

0:19:11next few months at least just fits to me though with like

0:19:15to a lesser degree at Amazon but it's Google's amo to me is to just announced

0:19:22crazy shit that's not even close to being real and get people excited about

0:19:26it and to me it just just tracks from the best of what's really real right and

0:19:34being announced well I for Amazon I think it's probably actually pretty

0:19:37effective because it says oh they're really focused on delivery and even if

0:19:41they can't do this yet I should still buy stuff from them because it was only

0:19:45it was an ancillary thing it wasn't as if I mean probably some people would

0:19:48have ordered stuff just to get a drone delivered to them I probably would have

0:19:51but I would but I mean it wasn't as if they said you know this is the service

0:19:56they said you know we're working to make shipping on what you by as fast as

0:20:00possible so it's not as if they were actually selling the drug delivery

0:20:04whereas I think you're right in terms of Google there's a lot of stuff that they

0:20:07pre announcer announced when it's you know sort of half baked and it's

0:20:12something that you might actually want to buy directly but either is not

0:20:15available

0:20:16like Google glasses then with this year they've had a couple like anyone can buy

0:20:21it days right now but for the most part still 1500 bucks which is much more than

0:20:26a plan to charge for it and for the most part it's just been available to select

0:20:31developers so it's something that's in the public consciousness but not

0:20:35actually available to the public so you know we're recording this day I think

0:20:39one day but you know it could be you know by the day or two from now there's

0:20:45a big new Google glass announcement were you there a they've radically drop the

0:20:48price or be they've got a new generation of hardware that's that's less obtrusive

0:20:53and significantly improved who knows but I don't really expect well but even even

0:20:57if they even if that's true and it may well be but you know it's been a year at

0:21:03least a year plus since it first has landed and people two years two years

0:21:07right and you know it just it doesn't really exist as a product it's not a

0:21:12product you can go to the store and buy and that's strange to me I think your

0:21:16comparison is generally gonna beat Apple where you don't hear anything about it

0:21:20until it's either in the stores or its gonna be in the store is very soon and

0:21:25in a form that is exactly as promised

0:21:28right they did pre announced the iPad iPhone 5 for the exception but even that

0:21:33nothing that they pronounced I mean was there anything that was missing in the

0:21:37final product

0:21:38no in fact it was better because they switched from plastic glass like a month

0:21:45before and which to me is one of those like secret like little overlooked

0:21:49historical things where it's like can you even imagine being Tim Cook and it's

0:21:54like you're trying to get this super high profile thing shipped from China

0:21:58and like Steve Jobs comes in as I hey plastic know I've got these guys from

0:22:03Corning under and I think we can switch the glass and it's like may take six

0:22:09weeks before you supposed to ship that thing and somehow he made it how was it

0:22:13that I mean to you I don't have it was six months it's ridiculous well it was

0:22:19definitely after January one of the books might have had that may be like

0:22:24the Jobs biography had the story maybe it was like April or something like that

0:22:28but like you said two dozen at any point between January and June right into his

0:22:33final right it was like the most important part of the phone it was the

0:22:38book thing that was most different and original and new switch from plastic

0:22:42hard plastic to grill a glass and the apps got better in some ways right up

0:22:49there were a couple of days it was better than promised and then two months

0:22:52after that when they dropped the price it even came down in price right right

0:22:56so yeah bye bye in in that first generation it wound up being better than

0:22:59they had originally promised which is something they never do anyway as far as

0:23:04originally announcing something before it's available right like whereas the

0:23:08opposite would have been if they'd promised it was going to be guerrilla

0:23:11glass and promised it was gonna be $3.99

0:23:14shipped it and it was credible plastic and 69

0:23:19well and I'm also reminded of this showing these these concepts of

0:23:26conflating between concepts and reality with this thing I saw the weekend and

0:23:30linked up about the armband Google gesture right it was this video and and

0:23:36Mashable linked up his own Israel in a couple Android sites picked it up after

0:23:41Mashable and what it really was was just a student exercise from get some

0:23:48advertising school and start to Berg School of Communication and as much as

0:23:55student who made a video of a fake Google product called Google gesture

0:24:00we'd put his arm band on and it would translate sign language to verbal speech

0:24:06in real-time which is fantastic given that it doesn't you know Google has

0:24:15great text to speech speech to text but it still isn't quite as real-time has

0:24:21what they were for this sign language

0:24:27always though it was it had nothing to do with Google there did not engineering

0:24:31students they're not working with computer science project their

0:24:34advertising it was just an exercise to say like make a fantastic product and

0:24:40then make an ad for it right but Mashable review went with it is those

0:24:44sites and I feel like you no shame on them for not looking at a little harder

0:24:50the signs are all there that this was not real but it's still to me is a

0:24:54little telling know that that they got full because it's it's you know Google

0:24:59tends to announce stuff that's not really right right what was the last the

0:25:02last sentence was no no shipping date for the app has been announced in the in

0:25:06the massively and the National Peace right right well I don't know that I

0:25:11mean that happens with it doesn't happen in the same way with Apple but there's

0:25:16all sorts of writing about Apple about the iWatch that's coming and it's

0:25:20written as if this is a certainty and as if Apple has already announced it and it

0:25:24drives me crazy

0:25:26yeah absolutely think I'd I brought it up with mark Gurman a couple weeks ago

0:25:30when he was on the show that thing that gets me is the way those articles are

0:25:34always accompanied by a visual marker from some random you know designer on

0:25:39Flickr or dribble or wherever right and and there's a tiny little credit to like

0:25:45a name but it doesn't really say it never says this is just a crazy mock-up

0:25:50that is unrelated to the rumor that were published it just goes well with the

0:25:54story but don't take it as as fact or even as as anything in fact there was

0:26:01one a couple weeks ago doesn't really matter which side it was but it was one

0:26:05of these sites like 9 to 5 Mac and it wasn't mr clemens 49 of 50 min somebody

0:26:10else but it was a story about her nephew was a German I don't know it doesn't

0:26:16matter but it was about this thing where that Iowa State is rumored to be in the

0:26:24fall when new iPads come out that there's gonna be split screen mode

0:26:29between multiple apps to ads before the developer's conference or after after ok

0:26:35but then they did right and mentioned at the conference so we're assuming it's

0:26:39not happening right and and somebody poking around Iowa State bader had found

0:26:48some stuff that's in there that there is there's these you know we can actually

0:26:52come back to this later in the show but these different screen mode two-thirds

0:26:57one-third to one-half one-half and so this article was described in what

0:27:06actually in the I was beta hidden which isn't much we still don't really know

0:27:12like the actual interactive like what is the actual how are you doing wrong and

0:27:18in the meantime they had an illustration showing something completely from Mike

0:27:22somebody from months ago just speculation and the rumor came out or

0:27:26write it didn't even

0:27:29match what was being described but yeah it was done in a very highly detailed

0:27:34visual style that conveys a sense of authority and a of reality as if this is

0:27:39real right like it would be different it would be stupid they wouldn't do it but

0:27:44like if somebody who is not really an artist like me to keiko field notes no

0:27:49point hands and just did like a simple sketch on artistic just a pen on paper

0:27:55instead it's sorta like the couple of rectangles in an era that would be one

0:27:59thing but did these completely flush down India's yeah like a hundred percent

0:28:05articulated in Photoshop ideas and it drives me nuts you know every and you

0:28:10can find hundreds of these stories about the iWatch accompanied by these

0:28:14illustrations makes me crazy we tell you about take a break up talk about our

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0:31:05I mean is that sounds like a great idea for a service from sponsor what else

0:31:15were we were talking about Amazon so they were there last week they announced

0:31:20the Amazon fire phone right did you see that I didn't see the event a song I saw

0:31:28one of the summaries of it I did you actually watch the event now I didn't I

0:31:33was a little bit and the day they do seem to do a nice job but I I was busy

0:31:41at the time and then I just read all the highlight it didn't seem like there was

0:31:45two hours of stuff well record it it was just the phone right that they cover

0:31:49anything else I think they had some some boilerplate up front just talking about

0:31:54you know how many how successful Prime is right in our grass with no label the

0:32:01axes and so it's quite as it was last year but who knows what it was last year

0:32:06right well I would only half joking I did I took a screenshot of one of the

0:32:12graphs showed like total number of Prime members over the years and it says

0:32:17steeply sloping upwards charters no label on the y axis y no label and I

0:32:24only half joking I asked if Amazon had ever published a ground with a labeled

0:32:28why access all they had that the x-axis is labeled in years and Y axis is

0:32:33completely unable I don't think that they have and I know that they've

0:32:38they've never once announce sales figures for any hardware device that the

0:32:42right for the candles and the public and the TV one they've done now they're all

0:32:50there all fire something now aren't they

0:32:52yeah I think so fire TV

0:32:57Kindle means reader and fire means like everything else except the Kindle Fire

0:33:05is a reader as well i mean the phone no no the Kindle Fire tablet like it don't

0:33:12they call it the yeah but that it combines Kindle and Kindle Fire right

0:33:18its Amazon Kindle Fire is a tablet that the reader and fire I guess fireman down

0:33:25during yeah I think you're right

0:33:27fire means they're they're offshoot of and it's so it's a good thing then the

0:33:32fire phone is just there and ride off shoot for the phone and then fire TV

0:33:37used their Android offshoot for watching video and playing games or whatever your

0:33:43team against an innovative games and now they do they do that was that was one of

0:33:47the first ones that shipped with its you could you could buy it with a separate

0:33:50controller and that was that was where people said like the Apple TV so you

0:33:56know you could buy it went on the run around and play games on it and there

0:33:59was a fire TV had I think the default model did never control over you could

0:34:05buy an additional controller with it I don't know if that ever took off it's

0:34:09only been a few yeah you're right about now so maybe maybe it's not that popular

0:34:13maybe it isn't and it is not ready you know that's one of the things to the you

0:34:19know I know people who follow Apple tend to be accused of favoritism or or or or

0:34:25like in the sport to go back to the sports analogy that we're always

0:34:27complaining about the rest right we always perceived that the refs are out

0:34:33to get us but I can't help but think that if Apple had announced at the same

0:34:38time and Apple TV update with a game controller and it had taken off to the

0:34:43extent that Amazon's has taken off which is to save apparently not much at all

0:34:47that they'd be getting excoriated

0:34:50and that Tim Cook would need to be fired and etcetera etcetera go for another try

0:34:58anything well I don't know somehow apple and abalone seems to not be given

0:35:03permission by the business press some of the tech press to just try things right

0:35:08right and there's snide remarks about Apple TV as a quote unquote hobby

0:35:14whereas it's clearly more you know and I think by that it just means it's not as

0:35:20big a deal financially as the other things that Apple does like the phone

0:35:23well i mean that that originated I think it was Tim Cook who said that wasn't or

0:35:27was it

0:35:27jobs but that came from Apple or maybe study well as one of the game while Jobs

0:35:32was still alive I don't know if it was his words are Tim Cook's words while but

0:35:37steve is still the same right and and yet and they said you know this is sort

0:35:40of a hobby for us and then it becomes the the way the press writes about it

0:35:45while I actually remember when they did the first Apple TV silver and it was

0:35:50hard drive yeah and they even it was sort of semi pre-announced they were

0:35:56gonna call it I TV shows the same time as the iPhone it was just you know

0:36:01what's really at the end of the AV the iPhone announcement was the same keno

0:36:07I'm like 99% certain on that he was like I don't even know what we're gonna call

0:36:11will call it a TV they had no they decided to the Apple TV but he kept

0:36:16calling it the ITV cuz he said that's why you shouldn't go with a code name

0:36:19that like I do remember that it was it was internally they'd call that the ITV

0:36:23and then kept slipping when he was referring to it

0:36:28one reason that they have heard that the reason they couldn't use that was

0:36:33because there's a big TV network in BBC ITV and it just wasn't worth it like I

0:36:40guess they could maybe use that name elsewhere around the world but but

0:36:47anyway I did there was introduced as a hobby was I we don't really know what

0:36:50we're doing this but we can it's it's it's interesting enough to ship and you

0:36:54can watch movies and TV shows on it but I can't help but think that if they had

0:36:59a game controller already and had games for Apple TV and it was you know had

0:37:04gone nowhere yet you'd be here which isn't you know right you hear about it

0:37:08well let's talk you want to talk to him Code Red Shirts let's say way right to

0:37:14to these was I guess it was just one piece about him coconut response piece

0:37:19right right so their last Sunday this was nine days ago now but last Sunday

0:37:25there was on the front page and at the front page of the New York Times front

0:37:28page of this Sunday Business section at the New York

0:37:31times was profiled him coke which interestingly he did not sit down for

0:37:37right at one point in the profile they must they spoke to Apple to verify some

0:37:42things but they said you know Tim Cook who declined to be interviewed for this

0:37:46for this piece yeah but they open it with like an anecdote or personal

0:37:52anecdote from his child raid which makes it seem as though he had talked to them

0:37:58for the article but in fact they took the anecdote from beach or something

0:38:02that he gave rate they gave at Auburn University within the last few years but

0:38:08then they just sort of to meet the little disingenuous i mean that way that

0:38:13it's really the way that it opens anyway it it it relatively quickly admits you

0:38:17know we did not interact with him directly for this so it's not as if

0:38:20they're certainly not framing the whole thing as as if he had spoken to them but

0:38:25you're right that the the intro does make it seem a little bit like he was

0:38:28speaking directly to them

0:38:30the headline is Tim Cook making Apple's own I'll be sure to put it I don't

0:38:35always keep up with the show notes but I'll make sure to define a trick tour

0:38:40and Brian X Chen

0:38:43channel of Japanese Haiti iPhone back when he wrote for wired but the other

0:38:51thing that's interesting so Tim Cook did not speak to them for this profile but

0:38:55they got a huge interview they did speak to johnnie I've for the same was in the

0:39:02same profile they had spoken yes ok I guess I didn't really last night so I

0:39:06guess I didn't know didn't see that that was the case

0:39:09yeah so they did get Jony ive which if anything is the bigger did you think

0:39:14well I think Tim Cook windup speaking certainly doesn't speak a lot to the

0:39:20press but he speaks more often and Jony ive does well so but so it was johnnie

0:39:23I've speaking almost exclusively about Tim Cook

0:39:28wasn't him talking about his own work of his own you know

0:39:32experiences that Apple has him sort of buttressing their claims about Tim Cook

0:39:37or or responding to some of their claims about him

0:39:39johnnie here's a quote from the article Jony ive the Head of Design at Apple in

0:39:46name nearly is adored by his followers that Steve Jobs says Mr Cook has not

0:39:51neglected the company's central mission innovation here's the quote honestly I

0:39:55don't think anything's changed people felt exactly the same way when we were

0:40:01working on the iPhone it's hard for all of us to be patient it was hard for

0:40:05Steve it is hard for 10 so I feel it's a pretty strong statement that's Jony ive

0:40:09putting his personal stamp of approval on the the the tempo para ya and saying

0:40:17honestly I don't think anything's changed right at least with regard to

0:40:21Apple and its and I word innovation was interesting that so yes he was he was

0:40:29interviewed for part of this it was really to sort of outreach team could

0:40:33write exactly as if presumably put him forward to do that

0:40:37yeah because if anything there's more credibility there than Tim Cook vouching

0:40:41for himself right absolutely right

0:40:44take take this sort of and i know its a loaded word objectivity but take the

0:40:48objective person stance of ok forget whether it apple and Tim Cook in

0:40:55particular but a company's CEO and is he replaces a very successful predecessor

0:41:03who founded the company the CEO's claims he himself is doing it almost

0:41:12meaningless right it's it's not you know we laugh but it's like well you know

0:41:17you're gonna say you helped write it means alot more when somebody who has

0:41:22his own what was there before and who's there now definitely right and his has

0:41:30and has earned an enormous amount of credibility right and has credibility to

0:41:34lose an enormous amount of credibility lose badges for him so it's you know you

0:41:40could see why Apple PR wise would would strategize such and say

0:41:45everybody went along with it that they would have johnnie speak instead of 10

0:41:49right given instead of both the thing that I thought was interesting was there

0:41:53was a mention of so right now there's this idea sort of in the ether that

0:41:59Apple hasn't had any innovative products and Steve Jobs died right after last one

0:42:04was the iPad which was 2010 he died in 2011 as I think and you know they just

0:42:12haven't even sitting on our hands since then and you know the fairly obvious

0:42:17response is that innovative products don't come every six months every year

0:42:21it's you know the Mac the iPod in 2001 the iPhone in 2007 than the iPad in 2010

0:42:27so even if you think it accelerated I think that's fairly quickly gentlemen

0:42:32really we're talking about a handful of truly game-changing products that you

0:42:37should expect there to be multiple years maybe even decades between them but the

0:42:43iPad Mini is sort of the counter to that it maybe that's one where it's at least

0:42:49semi innovative in terms of ramping up sales at least and what was interesting

0:42:54in that piece was that it said that this was a product that Steve Jobs didn't

0:42:58think we'd find a market and since then it outsells the full-size iPad I don't

0:43:05think it gave a number but vastly outsells it right I don't know but

0:43:09vastly but they did say that it outsold and I thought that was interesting

0:43:12because it wasn't it doesn't break that down although you can kind of

0:43:17extrapolate some of it from an average they do say how many total iPad they

0:43:21sell per quarter and they do give an average selling price and given that the

0:43:25iPad Mini has always been significant sure that you know you could see from

0:43:30the downward shift in average selling price that it's clearly been successful

0:43:35but it was you're right though that they do give Tim Cook not just like credit as

0:43:41far as Steve Jobs didn't want to make this product and therefore you know they

0:43:45didn't under him and Tim Cook took over and then he said you know what we are

0:43:49going to make this and you know that's that's release

0:43:53it's never been been promoted that way but that's to me almost really the first

0:43:58major Tim Cook product that had apparently really just literally would

0:44:03not have happened under Steve Jobs right and it's also a very interesting product

0:44:08me operations wise because I still think it's an enormous success you know as

0:44:16Apple is a company of patterns and you can kind of pick up on the annual

0:44:20patterns of their development and make you know without any kind of sources and

0:44:26all that Apple it's a pretty good guess that there's going to be at least one

0:44:29new iPhone later this year it's gonna have a new system on a chip called the

0:44:35age right i mean got the very least there's gonna be a new iPhone as far as

0:44:39the chip like what do you think like 90% chance on that I would say at least 90%

0:44:44chance it is going to be in a because there's been an 84 85 86 87 for the last

0:44:51four years ever since they introduced the one with the AFL which I totally you

0:44:58know 99.99 that there's gonna be a new iPhone and then maybe just slightly less

0:45:02than its gonna have a new chip

0:45:04anyway doesn't matter as you're saying patterns that they were four years at

0:45:08this point right and so to me that thing is most interesting about the iPad Mini

0:45:12is the first one that was introduced in 2012 was like a year behind the big iPad

0:45:19it was a year behind it was still on a five when the big iPad gone to the A six

0:45:26it was not right agenda of the retina display and so I expected that in 2013

0:45:33that it would still be one year behind it might go right now because the iPad a

0:45:38gun-running before that it would have they shipped right which is how they you

0:45:44know how they in other ways you know how they kept the prices are much lower than

0:45:48but it it like skipped easier it to me

0:45:51engineering and went all the way from an 859 retina device to top of the line

0:45:57a seven right now

0:45:59and not thicker like the original iPad work right

0:46:04kept the tell us that long battery life and read and went to the a 70 mean it's

0:46:11like there's a tiny last risk you have to insert there because it's like the

0:46:15clock speed is like five percent slower than the iPad I don't think I was aware

0:46:20of that

0:46:21yeah but it's it's really really like it it's not even just an asterisk tiny tits

0:46:26effectively they effectively brought it up to the same level as they as the

0:46:29full-size iPad instead of keeping right in a year when the full-size iPad had a

0:46:33tremendous year big jump in terms of the thickness and width and battery life

0:46:39which is amazing and to me that's just all Tim Cook and Andy here that this you

0:46:45know that you know he'd been a proponent of the many sides all along I mean you

0:46:50know seems like the guy gets credit both the operations and for the meeting the

0:46:57market demand right well the thing that I think before I say this I need to

0:47:01stipulate that I do well and some apple stock but the thing that I can't ever

0:47:06really get behind in these articles is talking about growth and I'm not like

0:47:12I'm not some sage investor I don't really know what I'm doing but

0:47:16everything talks about how Apple's growth has slowed and thats percentage

0:47:22growth rate right but why is that the metric can someone explain to me why you

0:47:30know if you go from being I don't know how big they were 10 years ago but they

0:47:34weren't that big to either the biggest her second biggest you know top five

0:47:39biggest companies in the world why is that not enough and why do you need to

0:47:46continue growing beyond that point

0:47:50well and I would even say the flip side that where they did have in the crazy go

0:47:56go early years 2008 2009 2010 high rain where they did have crazy like 40% 30%

0:48:03year-over-year growth who thinks though that once you are the biggest company in

0:48:08the world that you can poverty or 40% growth is it's it's it almost is

0:48:14impossible I know this is not really the law of big numbers but it's what Pete

0:48:19some people use that phrase which is simply means once you're that big you

0:48:24can't grow at 30 or 40 41 billion in sales to two billion as a hundred

0:48:33percent growth but to do to 24 billion is obviously not as easy as 1224 and as

0:48:39the numbers get bigger and bigger that becomes more difficult when you're

0:48:43literally the most profitable company in the world not just probable tech coming

0:48:46but most profitable companies seven or eight percent growth year over year in

0:48:50profits is and it's huge numbers of billions of dollars that everyone's I

0:48:57shouldn't say everyone but wall street or investors or you know whoever it is

0:49:02seems so focused on the percentage growth and I just look at these numbers

0:49:06and I think like okay they made you know twenty billion dollars last quarter that

0:49:11seems pretty good to me you know I found in particular which is the biggest and

0:49:18most profitable by revenue and profit line at Apple has is in a fascinating

0:49:23market which is phones because for the most part there's an upper cap on how

0:49:28many phones are gonna be in the world which is one phone for every adult or

0:49:33even close to adults aged person I mean unless you've got your daytona

0:49:37International right which is an exception and you know there's obviously

0:49:42a lot of very elderly people who are not going to buy it now I'm just kidding

0:49:46dialogue and there's no children I guess you know really young children are

0:49:51typically not gonna get an iPhone right and it's not a good that people trade

0:49:57them in or or upgrade but it's not a good that expires in any way at least

0:50:02not in terms of months it's the world population seven billion so let's say

0:50:08there there's truly a hard cap at around three billion phones in the world

0:50:12let's say three or four why not you know and you know you can cut off large

0:50:17swathes of those people for not having the financial have enough money to buy

0:50:23an ivory is not gonna happen where they live in a place where there still isn't

0:50:27cell service right

0:50:31iPhone has already peaked in it can sell more but it's it's actually if you look

0:50:35at the numbers that have actually sold its remarkably close to they've sold

0:50:39about as many as they could have hoped to at this point and they've got to

0:50:43expand an interesting in new ways and wait for the world to catch up

0:50:46you know it's it's truly they've done almost as well with the iPhone as they

0:50:50as you possibly could write like if you said in 2007 when it came out that

0:50:56what's the best case scenario for the next seven years it almost it's almost

0:51:02as though that they've they've hit that they've they've you know they've done as

0:51:06well with it as they possibly could have its elected to do and they were having

0:51:12thirty or forty percent growth that lead over the years where they were expanding

0:51:17to new carriers around the world I mean it's this is the thing that debuted on

0:51:22one carrier one country in 2007 and because of the nature of the way that

0:51:28day control the customer experience and that you know it's so different than

0:51:32than what the carriers expect or want you know it was a relatively slow

0:51:37rollout around the world and that's what made the growth possible is that there

0:51:42are these countries with it hadn't been sold except like on the grey market and

0:51:48in their debut and they could you know it would allow for this tremendous

0:51:53growth worries that type of grow its just not feasible to expect that right

0:51:57and then in that same piece there was a quote from I forget who was it doesn't

0:52:01really matter some other investor or some analyst and I wrote this down as he

0:52:06said he thought Apple no longer had the juice to create the world-beating

0:52:09product it needs and so let's let's I can even I can't even say you know maybe

0:52:16he's right maybe they cannot create another iPhone maybe there's no market

0:52:19that exists or maybe they don't have the ability to create a market but the word

0:52:24needs in that sentence is really what sort of sticks because this is again I

0:52:29don't know what it is right now today but it's one of the biggest companies in

0:52:32the world

0:52:32one of the most profitable companies in the world and they've got how much money

0:52:36in the bank what does needs mean in that sense right that's not what happened

0:52:42needs it what these investors who seek a huge returns on stocks right right where

0:52:48they need to justify continuing to support our here's a quote that they

0:52:53have in this time story from you know this is the balance that was added to

0:52:57the story this is from Lawrence I balter chief market strategist at Oracle

0:53:02investment research

0:53:04well the article this is this is the the times author's words investors have

0:53:11clamored for Apple wizardry a much-anticipated i watch for ITV perhaps

0:53:16to these critics Mr Cook is uninspiring his social views window-dressing when

0:53:21what they want is magic which is a little more telling than a good thing I

0:53:26think I think that at the same that they want magic like they're presenting these

0:53:30guys is reasonable critics whereas I'd say using the word Magic is a little bit

0:53:34actually spot on like what they want is not possible right yeah here's the quote

0:53:42from this guy Walter where is the grand design all we hear from Cook is that

0:53:48there are some great products coming down the pike Mr Boulter calls Apple a

0:53:53financial Rock of Gibraltar it is sitting on about a hundred and fifty

0:53:57billion in cash but he says he has serious questions about whether it

0:54:01continued to be a hyper growth company is it a stock for growth investors he

0:54:07asks or quote widows

0:54:09which and now to me it's actually a little insulting right now it's like

0:54:16this

0:54:17the alpha male investor on wall street who you know what exactly is wrong with

0:54:26Windows right of stock right which churns out earnings every year and and

0:54:33pays a dividend and you know is a is a viable thing to hold onto and earn you

0:54:38some money right women whose husbands of died are looking for stability yeah I

0:54:45guess it's and exactly what you said what's what's wrong with that either

0:54:49well I mean and you're right it is presented as a as you know it should be

0:54:54this hyper growth stock and instead it's this boring you'll just make a little

0:54:58bit of money often overused ugh

0:55:02late like I said I can't I can't read too much of the the stock analysis of

0:55:09apple just because it's just so insane right and it's it's never been a fair

0:55:16way to necessarily measure the CEO because the stock is into some ways

0:55:21outside the one large waves outside the CEO's control that you know judge them

0:55:28by their revenue and their profit and their product lines but what what

0:55:31happens to the stock prices often irrational and in Apple's case usually

0:55:35irrational even if you do think the CEO should be judged based on this stock if

0:55:40you look at the numbers its way up since he took over right way up and in fact

0:55:45that's the point on GATT is that this is actually getting to me this Times

0:55:50article if you really read between the lines and look at it the stuff and Tim

0:55:55Cook's favor is a lot of it is concrete things like the iPad Mini being largely

0:56:03brushed over in this article but but the stuff at WWDC where you see Apple is an

0:56:07organization really working to pulling together in a cohesive way between

0:56:14company

0:56:15right and and in a way that shows that these products they've already got the

0:56:20iPhone and the iPad and even the Mac which is the longest standing still have

0:56:26deep areas to be improved that they're nowhere close to being finished

0:56:31you know and that its shallowness to say give me something new give me a watch or

0:56:36a TV that the iPhone and iPad are old news whereas they're still so so much to

0:56:42do to improve those products even in the short term even just this year and next

0:56:48year let alone for the next decade and it's such a shallow way to look at them

0:56:52as to say that that they need you know I emphasized the word need that they need

0:56:58something new when there's so much more that can be done and improvements that

0:57:03can be made to these existing products but then conversely the the negative

0:57:09stuff the balance in awhile I don't know maybe the guy is in a t-shirt is getting

0:57:13so much the sauces so much weaker right there still in this article using the

0:57:20stock dive in 2013 right against cook that investors doubted the guy in the

0:57:26stock went from 600 down under 500 and this is the old pre split numbers but

0:57:35they're still using that late hey there's proof that the guy who knows

0:57:40maybe on shaky ground where is really what that stock tip proved was that a

0:57:45lot of investors believed not that Tim Cook was in a t-shirt that a lot of

0:57:49investors thought he was in a t-shirt right it's not proof that he was its

0:57:52proof it's believed he was right but the article came out in June of 2014 when

0:57:59the stock is back up near historic pls and Wayne higher I mean I might even be

0:58:06I think was around 350 when he took over I am pretty sure that's right if it's

0:58:12not double it is very close to double the peak of where it was when twin Steve

0:58:19Jobs you know right so yeah it went up and then it went down a little bit from

0:58:23there but was still way over where

0:58:25had then and now it's back up so that the only way you can use it as a cudgel

0:58:29against him is to ignore what happened after you know you've got is still be

0:58:35stuck at like late 2013 when it was depressed it's actually the stock now is

0:58:42it's not a good example of problems with him up and then the last well there's

0:58:49two things I wanted to talk about in the article but the last thing in the

0:58:55article I thought was weird to comparison oh yeah maybe wasn't at home

0:59:02to keep it safe they found some guys at WWDC who claimed to be you know I found

0:59:07it right and yeah that one of them quote that I have is that I wrote this down to

0:59:13is that jobs is to John Lennon what Tim Cook is to Ringo yeah I mean nothing

0:59:21against ringo but I mean that's what are now I i couldn't i couldn't caught on to

0:59:27the idea that that jobs as Lennon and and Tim Cook is is not Paul McCartney

0:59:33he's freakin ringo right I think it's I think comparisons of beetles in this

0:59:39case of pretty doesn't work it doesn't but its they let that you know but they

0:59:43found somebody who obviously doesn't think much of Tim Cook and then at the

0:59:48very end of the article they found one thing particularly jarring in the

0:59:52keynote Apple did not you to its tradition of pairing hardware and

0:59:56software specifically Apple introduced a program called health which helps

1:00:00consumers and doctors monitor health status like heart rate glucose levels

1:00:03but did not also introduced a piece of hardware to measure those results that

1:00:07is something the new smart smart watches rumored to do quote from this guy

1:00:12misters Cielo they just really software said mr. zeal of sounding surprised it's

1:00:18something stammer wouldn't have done it's an impossible comparison but it was

1:00:23that Mr Cook is being held to at least until he makes enough magic of his own

1:00:26and then the article ends whereas so they just let this guy say this the

1:00:31quote this guy who was at the beaded Ricci saying in the last paragraph it's

1:00:35something Steve wouldn't

1:00:36run whereas you can list W her fingers listing WWDC is where they didn't

1:00:42introduce new hard right hand and recently it's all been new iOS stuff

1:00:47that then in the fall you realize oh right the phone does have you know two

1:00:53cameras or edgy plants or I'm trying to get a more recent example but you know i

1:00:57phone does have things that go with this software including 2011 Steve Jobs last

1:01:03w-2 BDC was no hardware it was actually the WWDC where they moved the iPhones

1:01:11from red to the fall and there was no hardware it was the I you know he's like

1:01:17the introduction of iCloud as a strategy which was software and so they don't

1:01:21they just let the quote stand like that to me and that's how the article and

1:01:25they say that's something Steve would have done whereas the times could have

1:01:28easily fact-check read and said actually it is something that not only would have

1:01:32done he did do and that to me is maddening and to me is the sort of thing

1:01:38you would think you would expect better from the new york times but it's it's

1:01:43because I feel like it didn't even occur to them because their perspective is

1:01:47they want this false balance where you've got you know where you've got to

1:01:52have somebody saying that something like this

1:01:56otherwise it seems like Tim Cook is its to balance in 22 skewed in favour right

1:02:04where that's what the actual facts and it's just maddening to me that that's

1:02:08who they speak to from WABC whereas I thought it was I know you missed it this

1:02:12year you weren't out there but it was up crazily popular WWDC from developers

1:02:18right right yeah I mean and you could see that after the fact for in terms of

1:02:22and you don't even have to be there for you know the announcement

1:02:25you know that it's a lot of stuff that developers have been asking for

1:02:28really crazy let me take a second break here

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1:04:23I thought there was one more thing in this time story got under my skin which

1:04:30was when they were talking about Tim Cook Apple's charitable giving and the

1:04:36whole thing with the telling investors at the annual meeting that if they want

1:04:41you know with regard to their environmental standards all you care

1:04:44about is the return on investment then get out of the stock right now they're

1:04:49gonna do the right thing and this was from some investors with admittedly

1:04:55right wing views on climate change and similar that sort of environmental type

1:05:04things and I thought that the article sort of painted Tim Cook tried to paint

1:05:13him a little bit as sort of a worse you know he's sort of a Nancy pansy wasting

1:05:20money on things that a CEO's I thought that they presented that side of the

1:05:25argument a lot more than than the flip side that they didn't really seem to

1:05:30have any quotes from anybody who backs his leadership on on those concerns

1:05:36right dad quotes from the people who are against it and nothing from the people

1:05:40for it but that was a little well I mean including Tim Cook declined to be

1:05:44interviewed so that's gas but I thought that was a little weird and then there

1:05:49was this weird thing where they were comparing apples charitable giving to

1:05:53microsoft word out the math on that as well I believe that to you you're you're

1:05:58well I just got you know I did a mental calculation on it and it was something

1:06:04like you know under Cook Apple has increased their charitable giving in

1:06:07their matching of employees charitable giving and I i dont remember the numbers

1:06:12it doesn't matter you can look it up in the article basically it says something

1:06:14like in the past two years fifty million has been donated but in the past two

1:06:20decades Microsoft has donated like over a billion yeah that's exactly it that

1:06:26it's over two decades microsoft employs donations inclusive of the courthouse

1:06:32donated a billion dollars since 1983 so today right and so if you if you do that

1:06:39for three decades right 93 S three decades you do the math like it worked

1:06:44out that yeah Apple might not have you know might not be doing quite as much on

1:06:49average as much loved it over 20 years but in the past two years the numbers

1:06:53are way up and it doesn't really make sense to compare twenty years worth of

1:06:59donations to two years when they've just started this program out the whole thing

1:07:06the math on it seemed it was just it was it was an apple in orders comparison to

1:07:11use a phrase that doesn't work that well for Apple but it didn't make sense to me

1:07:16as I was reading well if you divide a billion over 30 years from Microsoft is

1:07:2233 billion million a year 33 million a year and they're saying Apple has

1:07:28donated 50 52 years so it's in the ballpark now there's inflation

1:07:34adjustment etc where 1983 dollars are worth less so maybe Microsoft has been

1:07:38giving you know more but still there in the ballpark when you look at it that

1:07:42way and its new its they've recently gotten into the ballpark so it doesn't

1:07:46seem to make sense to me to compare it over the past twenty or thirty years

1:07:49right and the other thing too that they just tossed out there is though its

1:07:53equivalent is that microsoft says that on average it donates $2,000,000

1:07:58software and software to nonprofit which is great that's better than not doing

1:08:04better than not doing it but let's face it that's that's valuing office at like

1:08:09nine hundred dollars or something which nobody rice right it would be great if

1:08:15donated software to nonprofits but it's not the same thing as a program about

1:08:20donating money to nonprofits you know and two million sounds like a lot like

1:08:26it would be a lot for rogue amoeba or Q branch to donate two million dollars a

1:08:32ride yet used in the day a lot of copies of Vesper but from Microsoft is not

1:08:41especially given the fact that they can you know that the prices they charge for

1:08:44their software

1:08:45just arbitrary not real good just not the same thing as for example donating

1:08:49two million dollars a day in the hardware to non-prime right has a fixed

1:08:53costs so it's a weird I thought it was a weird incited comparison yeah I what

1:08:59else you got hurt while we were we were talking growth I think he wanted to

1:09:04touch on the physical growth of the iPhone where you go that's why so we've

1:09:12got that the other big story that came out this week and this is nothing new

1:09:14this is you know his verifying months-long rumors but that Bloomberg

1:09:20yesterday this is Peterborough don't use the word verifying because not verify

1:09:26that seroma I don't criticize you i'm talking more about all the sites that

1:09:30published the stuff all the time now we've got a slightly more reputable site

1:09:34with maybe better sourcing right right

1:09:37the rumors jim Coleman in Peterborough's reporting for bloomberg Apple's big

1:09:45iPhones plural said to start production next month Apple suppliers and China

1:09:51will begin mass production of its largest iPhones ever next month

1:09:55according to people familiar with the plans as the smartphone maker faces

1:09:59increased competition double-blind asked not to be identified because the plans

1:10:05are private one model will have a four point seven inch display compared to the

1:10:09foreign screen of the current try this that may be available to ship to

1:10:13retailers around September said two of the people

1:10:17a 5.5 inch version is also being prepared for manufacturing in may be

1:10:21available at the same time the people said so they're they're saying this is

1:10:26you know in this is Bryn rumor by various people for a while that there's

1:10:29two new bigger iPhone race this year

1:10:324.7 inch diagonal display and a 5.5 inch there's a lot of the actual we could

1:10:41easily fill the rest of the show just talking about this I don't even

1:10:44understand I don't even understand the aspect that this 5.5 inch version may be

1:10:49available at the same time they might release this in like january or

1:10:53something i mean just talked about 10 minutes ago about the patents that Apple

1:10:57follows

1:10:58they don't release a new iPhone in the middle of the year with a different size

1:11:02right I don't get I've never been less excited not excited well I'm not exactly

1:11:12because I'm personally a little I i dont wanna be like I'm out there I'm holding

1:11:20my phone right now it's it's a four inch screen and it's almost too big to me I

1:11:28could see how maybe I could I could get used to a four point seven i've seen

1:11:33four point seven devices but that to me seems just the way it seems to be

1:11:37annoying 5.25 she knows I know that I don't want I know that I don't it just

1:11:43seems weird I've never even my personal tastes aside even less say I really want

1:11:48even if I wanted a huge I just don't understand how it was going to be

1:11:54presented in a keynote where they said you know I could see how they would say

1:12:00look everybody wants a big phone here's a bigger eyes I don't understand how

1:12:04they say here's to a bigger iPhone bigger and even more human guests and

1:12:11the size that you've grown used to over the last seven years and that is made

1:12:16the iPhone them by far you know seventy percent of all the profits in the entire

1:12:21Hansen industry is now right now was the ad that was a big thing is that you're

1:12:24reading this as them saying there will be a four point seven and a 5.5 and

1:12:28that's it and that's all I've ever seen rumored I've never seen from any of

1:12:33these other rumors rumors of a new four-inch

1:12:37current size iPhone well but I question is how would that how would that lead

1:12:43forces if the size changes it's much more obvious right well part of it too

1:12:52and and over the last few years the track records been pretty good on the

1:12:57component leaks out of Asia and what they're showing this year is something

1:13:02that's more along the lines of the iPads with rounded side have you seen any

1:13:08I really don't look at this stuff just cuz I wait till it comes out but a lot

1:13:13of what's come out and and from sources that have been pretty accurate in years

1:13:17and as you know and and that got the new iPhone 5 shape and and sent same type of

1:13:24people who stood you know had like leaks of the gold iPhone are showing I have

1:13:31four point seven inch in 5.5 inch phones with more or less just think of a

1:13:36smaller iPad or iPad Mini with the rounder sides and those top brands and

1:13:43nothing like that is linked with a four page so let's see if you presume now

1:13:48obviously this is an enormous if this is the biggest if I could make on the show

1:13:53if we take it for granted that all new iPhone hardware will inevitably leak

1:14:01from the agents applied again that is an enormous if but if we take that as an

1:14:07assumption then the only way that the four-inch screen stays at the top of the

1:14:13and get the aid and new camera and stays at the top of the heap technology wise

1:14:19wise is if it's going to still be in the current 5s for greater which seems

1:14:26different if there's two new models that have a new iPad style look yeah I get

1:14:31possible I guess I don't know but it just seems weird like to me for example

1:14:36that the way that I just mentioned before that in 2013 last fall

1:14:42Apple introduced two new iPad the new Mini with Retina and the new iPad air

1:14:47and they had the same specs same camera same a seven system-on-a-chip you know

1:14:53roughly that is just a wish and they also looked like siblings looked like

1:15:00the same device trunk up and down well but if you even write so the question is

1:15:06are they going to keep a four-inch screen as a sibling a brother to the

1:15:12existing the new sizes but if your gonna do that if you're gonna change the case

1:15:18that's gonna present all sorts of manufacturing

1:15:20his right eye I would go i mean it might make sense to put the new hardware in

1:15:27there you know whatever the new chip is new camera whatever but keep the current

1:15:31case because you've already tooled up all your factories for that current

1:15:35four-inch sized case we have but they've never kept the same for factored form

1:15:40factor for more than two years the 3G 3G s was two years before forrest was two

1:15:45years and the strip 55 s now you know again the fact that that's the pattern

1:15:51that they've had ever since you know 3G you know in the original 2007 iPhone was

1:15:57the only one that only last year does that mean that it will be so maybe not

1:16:04you know maybe this form factor the 55 s form factor is like their Porsche 911

1:16:10you know we don't need to change it you know this is this is the way up to four

1:16:15inches of phone books and theirs and it doesn't look dated it looks too looks

1:16:19great I mean ultimately what we'll see in three months I would guess September

1:16:26because it's it's been September four ever since they moved it to the phone

1:16:30and then october is for iPads and perhaps the watch or whatever else they

1:16:36gonna do but I would guess the phone gets its own event in September I was

1:16:41said to you I said the interesting thing to me was not the physical size growing

1:16:45because I'm as i said im pretty happy with the current physical size I am

1:16:49interested to see a storage space increase in the device yeah absolutely

1:16:55and nobody has any kind of rumors about that well again I guess is that

1:16:59something that would even leak because you know they already make a hundred

1:17:02twenty eight gig iPad so the the storage already exists in that size how

1:17:08different would the with the physical you know the case with need to be any

1:17:11different just put a little more storage they send their role in yeah I don't

1:17:15think so I don't think 228 chips would be bigger and along the same lines I

1:17:21would really really I think it's almost over do at this point like to see more

1:17:24RAM ok because they've they've been one gigabyte of RAM

1:17:30for a while now 5 I think the five you know and in that tick tock strategy of

1:17:39every two years they they take bigger leaps forward I would really like to see

1:17:45him go to 2 gigabytes on that do you do you think you notice a lack of RAM less

1:17:52so than used to but I still get those you know the most noticeable in Safari

1:17:58ok tabs that I know I have open and up how you learn and you know it's just the

1:18:04nature of the phone where I use it on cellular more than any other device and

1:18:10therefore if I'm out on cellular sometimes you know it's the most

1:18:13inconsistent networking wise and reloading it often takes you no longer

1:18:18than you'd like right what was I mean with storage space it's very obvious if

1:18:22I wanna put all of my music on there I can't do it whereas with Ram it's more

1:18:26of a nebulous you know as you said some days I support it needs to reload but

1:18:31the added that is that is I guess one of the one of the obvious ways you can tell

1:18:35ya and you know I don't play 20 games on my phone but I know a lot of people do

1:18:41Jonas certainly does in their games typically you know can use as much as

1:18:45you can throw at him right absolutely you know so it's not so much that I

1:18:49personally on a day-to-day basis really really need more RAM in my iPhone but I

1:18:53think that the iPhone is a platform could use and the iPad 2 especially if

1:19:00it's true that they're going to add some sort of multitasking type interface

1:19:05where you can run to perhaps at the same time right

1:19:08yeah I told him I just I still I just can't see how they would spin an

1:19:13introduction where they say we've added two new sizes of it and but yet the four

1:19:18and one looks exactly the same as well I mean I honestly if you look at where we

1:19:25are especially you I think are very fixated on the devices and pay much more

1:19:30attention than most people but I mean if you look at a bunch of iPhone

1:19:35side-by-side the user experience is not really very different between

1:19:42from a consumer standpoint in the there's always been a home button at the

1:19:47bottom of the power button at the top I guess the headphone jack moved but you

1:19:53know would it really be that big a deal if the four-inch had one case and the 47

1:19:57and 55 if they exist had a different case it's not but it just seems weird it

1:20:03just feels a little off to me that if they were all going to be on the same

1:20:07level the same level spec rise just would seem odd if one of them looked

1:20:13different than yeah just seems a little off and then that makes me think that if

1:20:17it's the case that they're going to your concern is that the bail on the four

1:20:22inch size right exactly that's my concern is that the new AAA top of the

1:20:27tier top tier iPhones are only gonna be 47 and/or 55 and that the foreign size

1:20:34will no longer be made with metal it'll drop I don't know what they're going to

1:20:38call it the five ccs but that the phone with the five aspects will be in the

1:20:43plastic we saw last year at one at $200 $100 you know price level down well

1:20:51selfishly I hope that's not the case but I don't have any insight as to whether

1:20:55or not that will be the case now but nobody who's publishing these rumors

1:20:58does either makes me it's just convinces me that all of the leaks are from the

1:21:03supply chain and none of them are from where the only people who know nobody

1:21:08even says like what you know how they're gonna price these things are and how

1:21:12much is the 5.5 inch going to be much more expensive right with the iPad you

1:21:18pay for the bigger size to pay for the size of the story right does it make

1:21:22sense that you would have I just don't see how you do this you know maybe one

1:21:26of them is you know another possibility is that the 4.7 inch the new flagship

1:21:37model most expensive in the 5.5 inch is the new five see lower-priced model but

1:21:43then that seems weird to me that you that somebody let's say somebody who's

1:21:49older and has really wanted a better phone because they they really have

1:21:54trouble read

1:21:54the smaller screen they just want everything bigger they want the cortex

1:21:58which is totally reasonable perfectly maybe the best example of why they

1:22:02should have multiple size I found the right but why would you be why would you

1:22:08have to sacrifice on the specs

1:22:12because you really want to be it doesn't make any sense to be like to me it makes

1:22:16the most sense to do it like the iPads and have same specs across the line and

1:22:22you know different price points but I don't even know if the price

1:22:25differential on the iPad's make sense why is the iPad Mini so much cheaper I

1:22:30don't know right I guess the screens are a guest at a certain point you really

1:22:34just costs more to have a bigger screen and battery even if the pixels are the

1:22:39same brain yeah because I mean needs a bigger screen physically and it needs a

1:22:43bigger battery physically so so what are you hoping for I I had Marco on talking

1:22:48about this I'm so confused about this i really don't see it where where this is

1:22:53how this is gonna be like I said I try not to think about this until they've

1:22:56actually announced it and then I say okay that's the one yet but I like I

1:23:01said I don't want to be your phone I certainly don't wanna 5 and 5.5 inch

1:23:05known as you said you tried to phone like that I have used a film like that

1:23:08it's way too big for my taste it's really big I can see why some people

1:23:12knew I can I can totally see why Apple would make it but I certainly don't I

1:23:16don't think I want and and you don't want to be forced into getting it almost

1:23:20because you want the top of the line phone as far as specs exactly right say

1:23:26I don't I i'm hopeful that a relatively reasonable size physical size phone will

1:23:32exist with the high-level specs but you know like I said we'll see in the eighth

1:23:40which i mentioned a few times maybe not even the best example of it because and

1:23:45iPad have a 72 this year the two things that the iPhone 5s has been no other iOS

1:23:51device has is as a better camera and as such I D and anything else they might

1:23:57introduce along those lines is going to be in the iPhone first because the

1:24:01iPhone has the mark to profit margins to support

1:24:05the top align the camera do you know for me personally the cameras the most

1:24:08important thing i I would probably buy whichever iPhone as the best camera even

1:24:14if it's the 5.5 inch well if it was only the 5.5 inch man that would I don't know

1:24:19what I mean the camera has gotten pretty good like I went from the I forget I

1:24:24went from like the iPhone 12 the 3G 3G s maybe the difference was enormous but at

1:24:29this point it you can certainly see a difference but it's pretty good already

1:24:34you you know what you still see the difference

1:24:37indoors ok outdoors I don't know that I can Pepsi challenge it but indoors you

1:24:41can definitely still see the difference especially indoors and at night the low

1:24:46light situations you can definitely like I think I could easily tell the

1:24:50difference unit 505 that well but it's not even just telling the difference

1:24:54it's is the is the lower one pretty good and pretty acceptable for a while and I

1:25:01still cause I'm you know as I can sell my camera enthusiasts and you know I

1:25:06have cameras you know how you know real cameras that have fancy lenses in the

1:25:12high ISO so I I know what it's like to have a camera that can do really well in

1:25:16low light you know and I just so I can see how much potential

1:25:20phone cameras to have to go and write honestly it would pray it would truly

1:25:27break my heart if the 5.5 inch display is the only way to go top and I just

1:25:32can't see how they would make such an enormous leap because I'll tell you what

1:25:36going from four inches to 5.5 inches it's huge it's just it's just huge its

1:25:42it sounds like you're just talking about an inch and a half but it's not it's

1:25:45just sad that so much bigger slice I mean it's I think it's even bigger than

1:25:50like a field notes notebook I really really big again I can see why someone

1:25:56would want that I totally understand the idea of hey I just I want something

1:25:59right in the middle of a phoner tablet because I'm gonna use it all day long

1:26:02for these things that's not right I just want something that's small as possible

1:26:08and not noticeable in my pocket

1:26:11so I don't know I really don't see how this is gonna play out

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1:28:38fireball you haven't signed up yet so bigger stored more RAM I thought I agree

1:28:47with you on that I didn't I don't know if we concluded on that but I do think

1:28:51they should go and I think the way that people are shooting video I think that

1:28:54it's it's essential I know I've had family members come to me with iPhones

1:28:58that are felt yeah yeah and it's because they shoot so many videos and photos I

1:29:05mean it's I think it's do or else we have an agenda y so bigger bigger

1:29:15iPhones this is how I want to talk about last weekend I was on just a small thing

1:29:18but did you see the State of the Union address as a setting for a family matter

1:29:26and I haven't caught up on all the videos so the state of the union is is

1:29:30great I recommended for anybody who's only watch the keynote I know a couple

1:29:34weeks out from the BBC but if you want a white one more I recommend that platform

1:29:38state is it is always work especially as a developer but in general they didn't

1:29:43hear about the keynote but that could have been in the keynote right and if

1:29:47you're nerdy enough to even if you're not a developer but if you're nerdy

1:29:50enough to listen to this podcast you're absolutely in the target audience for

1:29:53the state of the union says it's not super Cody it's not a lot of example

1:29:58code it's you know

1:29:58code it's you know

1:30:00it's it's at the level of like the show I think but they give you details that

1:30:04they'd just cannot fit into the keynoter that they just don't want to put in the

1:30:08the morning ringtone and the big one is such a tell it it's so awkward you know

1:30:13you said where they've switched to this thing where they'll ship stuff at WWDC

1:30:17and software and the hardware that comes out later in the year 2000 yeah that's

1:30:21why they did that all the stuff about multiple screen sizes is so it's so

1:30:28obvious but they can't say they won't neighborhood right well right they're

1:30:34not going to say hey we might be shipping iPhones with new pixel

1:30:37dimensions are new physical or we might when we unveiled the iPad later new iPad

1:30:44later this year have show a new feature you can run to AB side-by-side they just

1:30:51say like hey you know in theory you might you might want to support these

1:30:56new they call it a depth of apps and it's sort of like responsible responsive

1:31:01layout is to web design work sent out of whatever the screen sizes it'll still

1:31:06work and look as if it was made natively for that size right and that they're

1:31:11switching from a a model where there are two sizes you need to worry about iPhone

1:31:18size and iPad size and horizontal and vertical land and then a little

1:31:25asterisks for iPhone because they're still older ones that have a 3.5

1:31:28instance that have a four inch but they really just added pictures to the top

1:31:32they didn't really create a new everything stayed exactly the same size

1:31:35they just just got told I just got all our they're switching to a system where

1:31:42there's these one-third with half with four with two thirds with and you know

1:31:49like the iPhone is considered a one-third and so it just seems pretty

1:31:53without saying hey we might do this they're telling you that your apps you

1:31:58watch the everybody should watch the State of the Union and they they talk

1:32:02about this and it's it's interesting both in terms of thinking about how it

1:32:05might work as you know user and developer

1:32:08how might you know but it's also interesting as anybody's ever spoken

1:32:13publicly as careful with their words to to look at the country

1:32:17yeah it and they do it pretty well but you can it's so hard it will make you

1:32:23laugh it's really kind of funny I almost feel bad for him and then there's a

1:32:27whole session haven't actually watched it yet but it's building adaptive apps

1:32:31with you i cant section 216 and the thing that's interesting too I still

1:32:37feel like this hasn't really gotten through to everybody at there's no NBA

1:32:41this year I like everybody can just go to develop at apple.com or just google

1:32:47WWDC 2014 videos it's easier but its / videos / 2014 and have all the videos

1:32:54from WTC and you don't even need an 8th ATC account you don't have to login you

1:32:59just click the video you want and start watching it so everybody you know you

1:33:02have to sign up for a developer can you can just go watch session 21 sex and

1:33:07talk and see them talk about it I had a note that I wanted to mention that it's

1:33:11interesting it's interesting that the NDA has been lifted all this and they

1:33:16just before the conference talked about how there can be access to bases of the

1:33:22OS but as a developer it's tremendously annoying to have even more people

1:33:29running a bit OS that's interesting that I you know I thought occurred to me and

1:33:37it's yeah I thought about that but as my personal interest is a developer

1:33:45accurate we're still iOS only and I was not having a public beta whereas at

1:33:51Rogue Amoeba the max

1:33:54almost all Mac and/or couple have something for them but it's but for the

1:34:00most part though the company had him a company with it with some toes depth any

1:34:05I was poor and you have people running a public beta of yourself right and and

1:34:11people always did this who I don't wanna say shouldn't have but you know didn't

1:34:16necessarily need to

1:34:19and it was always a little bit of a of a struggle because you know we have to say

1:34:23we're not there yet we're working on it but if you need your stuff to work on a

1:34:27daily basis

1:34:28don't wanna bado as I mean that's just good advice in general right it's

1:34:34definitely good advice into anybody out there who's thinking about participating

1:34:37in the Yosemite public business you know what I mean if you not where I'm not

1:34:42saying don't do it I'm saying though you've gotta take responsibility and and

1:34:47you've got to take responsibility for what and the more people that are doing

1:34:50it the more emails were gonna get that say you know this isn't working whatever

1:34:53and we want to support these people as soon as we can but we also have limited

1:34:58resources and and so I don't know if this I don't know this will help Apple

1:35:02or not because I think they had pretty good testing both internally and from

1:35:06developers in previous years so I'm not really sure what they're striving for

1:35:11with this sort of change to open it up a little bit more in theory if there's

1:35:16something as stupid simple that's like really just like a line of code and I do

1:35:22you know what it is that this thing we could do this and maybe we'll ship a

1:35:25point one update and it'll make things run better

1:35:30yosemite public beta sure you might do that you could do that it just in the

1:35:35way that you even if there was no public beta might roll out dates of your apps

1:35:42over summer if you can work one in the does make things better under yosemite

1:35:45you'll do it you might have done it anyway because it'll help you because

1:35:48you'll be right but you can't run your company you can't support a base

1:35:55operating system and that's exactly it and so I said I don't know what Apple's

1:35:59hoping to accomplish with this and I hope they do get something out of it but

1:36:02it's definitely frustrating for us says as developers is ideally your support

1:36:08you somebody either when it officially ships out of beta or soon after a wall

1:36:13of your right

1:36:15day one if possible if not as soon afterwards as possible but that's

1:36:19because once it's out of beta it's a stable tour that the names and that's

1:36:23the thing 22 you make a great point there that right now it's completely all

1:36:28over the map and things can change drastically between releases

1:36:31and trying to track every single one of those changes across weekly or monthly

1:36:36releases before it's in the public's hands is not a good way to run a company

1:36:40right it's you can't target a moving target you could you can try to you'll

1:36:47end up wasting time you know and it could be something like a cosmetic bug

1:36:51like you know this doesn't look good because it's doesn't render well on the

1:36:56transparent Sutton and it ends up by the time it ships it's no longer even

1:37:01transparent because they've changed it for two weeks worth of right now anyway

1:37:08and it happen you cannot do it and again I've been there like paving way back

1:37:12when I was a bare-bones we went through it with BBEdit on the public beta of

1:37:16black with white house but I mean that are you talking 310 point out the actual

1:37:22public betas then those were actually almost releases that's probably a bad

1:37:28example because I think we only had the only way we do we only had a native

1:37:33carbon version of BBEdit was internally beta testing we didn't have a public

1:37:37beta so but there I remember there being a bare-bones though maybe not the 1000

1:37:42but like 10 1 intend to and all you know even before they even the basis of Mac

1:37:47OS nine you know that the various updates to it

1:37:51we'd get bug reports from people who were running it and it's like thanks for

1:37:55filing the bug we do appreciate that report the bug but don't you don't

1:37:59expect us to have this fixed on the schedule that we would for a similar bug

1:38:04on a shipping version of that BS that's exactly right anyway that's interesting

1:38:10I'm interested to see how that aspect of it plays out how popular the public well

1:38:13i i should mention that it hasn't been a huge issue it's not as if we've seen an

1:38:18influx of people running this who shouldn't be or you know but they

1:38:22haven't started the public 84 yes I mean there is none right now at all don't ok

1:38:27well then I guess we'll see I'm sort of out of it the first episode you'll know

1:38:33in the next episode of the show if I start by apologizing I'm

1:38:37nearly certain that the public beta hasn't started you may well be right i

1:38:40mean I'm running it on one of my machines but that doesn't mean you know

1:38:43I gotta from the developers area

1:38:45my hope is that they're waiting for a significantly better I i think that the

1:38:50two babies are actually pretty good for June right you know both Iowa State and

1:38:54Yosemite i've i've got machines devices running both here and they're both

1:38:59pretty good for June betas especially compared to past use ya past years the

1:39:04June 12 usually been unusual you know how come back to in mid July when

1:39:09they've got it did to me they seem like they're ahead of where they've been the

1:39:12past years but there I wouldn't recommend anybody to depend on in either

1:39:16know and there is a big thing is that a lot of a lot of the time the features

1:39:20that they've talked about art in there yet

1:39:22yes that's absolutely wanna rise in sea like how they talked about this new

1:39:27stuff I want to see it and then you if you install you're not actually gonna

1:39:30see it for another month because it's not there so so I don't know why I am

1:39:35optimistic that there I'm curious about it though because it does seem it does

1:39:39seem to be of a piece with this whole Apple you know that they're a little bit

1:39:44not ever a radical departure but in a slight shift of course you know Angela

1:39:49Ahrendts had a LinkedIn blog post yesterday on what it's like to be

1:39:54starting a new job but a new company wasn't particularly revealing that Apple

1:40:00was right and it was no secret there is nothing gossipy r shocking their notable

1:40:05was you know well-written and interesting an interesting perspective

1:40:09but the thing that's most interesting is that senior vice president at Apple

1:40:14posted a here's what I'm up to bottle things right would never have tried not

1:40:21just LinkedIn but on any kind of social network of bloggers and being well

1:40:26besides when Steve Jobs of blogging on apple.com yeah but even then it wasn't

1:40:32personal it was right it was two times in the entire history or Apple Steve

1:40:37Jobs wrote you know here's

1:40:40hear something you've mastered thoughts on music and then thoughts on flash

1:40:46that's right that was the other one flash yeah how'd that work out but we

1:40:51have Flash on the iPhone yet you know those people that I somebody email me

1:40:57about that the other some reader wanted me to do like a clam chowder flash

1:41:01because the people who are adamant that it was a sea could never be a success

1:41:04without it might seem to have conveniently lost their lost their

1:41:11interest in the cause no I don't believe so I I'm more curious are there any

1:41:17devices you can go out by the day that have tried to current Android devices

1:41:21habit or I don't think so I think you'd have to buy like a super low-end Android

1:41:27phone that's running an ancient version of Android to get it like a two point

1:41:31something version I don't think Android supported it

1:41:34tire 4.0 virgins and therefore point I was told everybody is given up on my

1:41:40blackberry still supports it they just had some newfound didn't think they're

1:41:46funny it's funny how hard it is for companies to actually like the the the

1:41:52the candle to actually go out right right ones like to remember the the load

1:41:58sis like lawsuits against UNIX and Linux this is pursuing Linux and UNIX I forget

1:42:07what the deal was that they own some piece of Unix and therefore receiving

1:42:11limits I think was the deal and these lawsuits went on for like a decade and

1:42:15they kept losing them but they kept piling them and it was always a concern

1:42:20that you know this is going to impact something like and right where it's

1:42:24actually even if it's not true Linux it's it's built around it and if this if

1:42:29one of these lawsuits was successful suddenly somebody might be taking a huge

1:42:32chunk of money out of some big company and yet anyway the point was that it

1:42:37took over a decade I think before they as he said the candle finally went out

1:42:41and they finally gave up and said all right we're done

1:42:43on and it's a similar thing with blackberry where the company's just

1:42:47limping along and I mean they must have some money in the bank to the way Apple

1:42:52does not not to that extent but yeah I guess I don't know it's just I don't

1:42:58know I expected something spectacular to have happened by now either like we're

1:43:02out we're turning out the lights and we're sweeps older I you know the way I

1:43:05expected to go as we told ourselves to LG HTC years i dont some somebody like

1:43:13that we sold our souls to in our blackberries just a name that's owned by

1:43:17this other guy like Napster got sold a couple times that way

1:43:21yeah but that hasn't happened yet and yet they're coming out with new phones

1:43:26and it's like I feel sorry for them I don't know anybody still left right they

1:43:31don't look terrible but they don't look at least bit competitive with everything

1:43:35else or you know right like palm just disappeared

1:43:40you know that something would happen by now you know the blackberries gonna

1:43:45disappear come down and bought by HP rate yeah I think that think that's

1:43:51where they were no HP wound up with them at some point cause the Tablet size ones

1:43:56were HP device called the touchpad yeah that's right they have blackberries

1:44:03limping along still in that was then I was surprised to see this announcement

1:44:07this week and last week and I've never looked at the phones but I have never

1:44:11been interested but it's interesting that they're still able to put something

1:44:15but I don't you know you never had just walking around the city and never see

1:44:20blackberry posters in the carrier stores anymore

1:44:23anything right you know it's almost like they're not they're going to buy one but

1:44:27I would guess that most of the ones that are still being sold are like the old

1:44:32style and not the new with a keyboard vs a touch screen right

1:44:37the ones that you know people who are just blackberry diehards who just

1:44:39skipped out on the whole iOS and right type computing thing and they just want

1:44:44a replacement for the BlackBerry that made right which is one reason is that a

1:44:49good business going forward but it never get something

1:44:52works and and that it eventually five years you may well want the exact same

1:44:56thing right I totally understand that might mean I personally obviously don't

1:45:02you know when it comes to phones I don't feel that way but there's other things

1:45:05in my life that if if it breaks I just want to buy the exact same god damn

1:45:09keyboard just exactly my keyboard I had the same time but likes for five pairs

1:45:15of the same stuff you know I don't care what the new sneakers are just give me a

1:45:19new pair of some bomb right and that's it from my list this week could chil iyo

1:45:28I don't want more for you can give you got a topic you got something to sit and

1:45:32this is important to me

1:45:34did you see it was last week did you see the announcement of these new emoji

1:45:39emoji oh no oh no I didn't I saw that there were but I didn't see what was so

1:45:45there's two things actually makes it promotes emoji 2 like a top-level

1:45:50keyboard now so instead of by defaults it used to be you had to turn on the

1:45:54emoji keyboard alright yeah he hasn't there by default for everybody was

1:46:00actually a bit interesting because it indicates Apple feels this is part of

1:46:04the culture now the same way like actuation is interesting but where

1:46:10there's a smiley but instead of hitting the globe and pulling up other keyboards

1:46:14you just hit the smiley button basically but yes the last week the standard got

1:46:20released for like 240 250 new emoji and the way it works is that each platform

1:46:27Apple Android Twitter has to then create illustrations for this and and make it

1:46:32part of their OS or part of their platform and I wrote about this today

1:46:37but the the the one that I'm very excited about and I'm a little worried

1:46:41about is there is now going to be a middle finger remote I forget the exact

1:46:46name but it's it's hand with middle finger raised you know they have long I

1:46:54i'm looking at your web site now so it's what's it called

1:46:59reversed can with middle finger extended and it and it was a hand flippin the

1:47:05bird now my concern now is this a question for you is Apple going to

1:47:11include this now that's a fascinating question is why is why you put pocket

1:47:19fosse's I heard that's a damn good question because Apple you know they've

1:47:24got the pile of poo in there but at the same time their app stores is fairly

1:47:30restrictive there's no pornography in there there's no risk a content is pile

1:47:36of poo is the is the emotive Mohd description pilot is the actual name of

1:47:42you look in the unit called pile of bills so and so there's no no reason it

1:47:48you would have to turn it into a googly eyed smiley face no its not happy face

1:47:52it's not happy pile of poo it's not smiling face literally just pile of poo

1:47:56it could be an ugly ranked smelly with flies buzzing rounded yeah like that'll

1:48:03still a little stinker is coming out of a pile of poo and instead it's a very

1:48:07very happy you know your your your doctor is going to be very happy with

1:48:13this guy

1:48:15yeah you're eating well you take care of yourself you know but so that the thing

1:48:20is that you know their restrictive in some regards and then not in others but

1:48:24this is a standard and they the the what's interesting is that they were

1:48:29talking a couple months ago about introducing diversity into the emoji and

1:48:33they wanted to have basically the whole lot of white people in the emoji which

1:48:38is interesting because it comes from Japan so it's a little strange but Apple

1:48:43said you know we want to have other other races represented in there and

1:48:47they said they might just do it themselves and they can take instead of

1:48:50like smiling elderly person they can make that a smiling elderly person of a

1:48:56different race so I don't know you know they have the authority on their own

1:49:01platforms to make this not quite a middle finger

1:49:05and I'm worried that I'm gonna have to switch to Android if this happens

1:49:09reversed and with middle finger extended well I mean can you make can you draw

1:49:17that in a way that follows that guideline without it being a middle

1:49:20finger

1:49:20yea well look at that you're obviously not an emoji lawyer I actually have a

1:49:26GED an emoji law so reversed and you do need to show the back right hand the

1:49:33middle finger extended does need to be extended but there's no reason you can't

1:49:36have another you toss up another finger and it's it's not incorrect and then

1:49:42suddenly I'm not flipping the bird I'm giving them a peace sign right right

1:49:46yeah exactly or or box I know that that is one of the new ones that's what I

1:49:53thought when I call that that's already that's a long and prosper I feel like

1:50:00you could officially comply with the description by putting another finger of

1:50:04their I'm worried I'm worried John that's a good question they got to do

1:50:10the right thing here they gotta give me the middle think you know it would fit

1:50:19with wouldn't comply with the description at all but it would fit with

1:50:23previous frustrations with similar curse words in in prose if they just replaced

1:50:32it with a picture of a dark ride you would go to insert the SIM oda nice

1:50:45that's my guess my guess is they're just going to put a picture of the son of a

1:50:49bitch will say i'm hopeful

1:50:54this is great now I'm on pins and needles to see how this turns out it

1:50:57could be months we don't know the way the standard where it gets announced and

1:51:00then they implemented over time so I don't know if it'll be part of Iowa

1:51:04SEDAR iOS nine but I'm eager to see it and I hope we get what we're what we

1:51:08deserve to know if there was any controversy over this you know i i didnt

1:51:14not that I saw it it's a standards body that you know the the companies that

1:51:22comply to the standard still have a lot of leeway rather so if you look you know

1:51:27things look different on different platforms so go with no think they're

1:51:31not going to do it i mean they did pile of poo though would there be a way that

1:51:36they would add a parental control that you know she keep her in a while but the

1:51:41thing is that if you don't know what it means that it's just a middle finger

1:51:44sticking up right i mean it's not do they have other fingers can you get

1:51:48every single finger of the mean there's already pointing fingers like pointed

1:51:52with the pointer finger and hand up and down and I don't know if there's one for

1:51:57every finger I don't think there is but I mean like you could just tell your

1:52:01kids this is this means one like i mean that's probably a bad lesson to teach

1:52:06your kid again make sure you to emphasize that lesson before the first

1:52:10day planner this docu-