The Talk Show

83: Live From WWDC 2014, With Marco Arment, Casey Liss, John Siracusa, and Scott Simpson


00:00:00   hello welcome to the top shelf from before we get started I want to thank [TS]

00:00:13   male champ male champion sponsoring this open bar so rate raise a glass to [TS]

00:00:23   MailChimp your everybody is drinking on their dime great emailed you never heard [TS]

00:00:27   of the new great email newsletters so go get another drink and later tonight gogo [TS]

00:00:32   set up a drunk newsletter with melting I wanna think Microsoft are our flagship [TS]

00:00:41   event sponsor that got the banners here at the second year in a row that they've [TS]

00:00:45   sponsor this event as your mobile services to you truly great stuff a year [TS]

00:00:51   ago I think maybe was a little bit weirder that Microsoft and their online [TS]

00:00:55   stuff was sponsoring the show at this conference and I think this year it's a [TS]

00:01:00   little bit less weird I know when you guys know that with this stuff we're [TS]

00:01:05   doing a cuban Vesper were using them were we build our entire back end on [TS]

00:01:09   their stuff [TS]

00:01:10   certainly when do that just because they wanted to show I'm happy that they're [TS]

00:01:14   sponsoring the show because I really like their stuff really amazing stuff so [TS]

00:01:18   if you're building anything with an online component I really really [TS]

00:01:22   encourage you to look at what they have to offer [TS]

00:01:24   it's really great even if you're like us and only developed for iOS and Mac OS [TS]

00:01:30   even if you're really really firmly in the Apple developer ecosystem they have [TS]

00:01:37   great options and so check them out of every check out as your mobile services [TS]

00:01:45   where they we gotta get that up by the end of the night so maybe I'll go [TS]

00:01:50   backstage and let you guys investigate your order online storage needs not [TS]

00:01:56   gonna get started so the first part of the show i three very special guests [TS]

00:02:03   have the guys from ATP Marco Arment John Siracusa and Casey less [TS]

00:02:17   so we've got each gun Mikes nice soft leather they would put Casey in the [TS]

00:02:31   middle like I was at the age of just just just sit there and look pretty for [TS]

00:02:37   a while even even when they build themselves it's I think it's Marco [TS]

00:02:42   Arment Casey listen john served by surname [TS]

00:02:47   it flows really nicely that way you know the best for last [TS]

00:02:52   the site and it kind of cheated so big I do we all agree this was a big WWDC a [TS]

00:03:02   big game right everybody agrees [TS]

00:03:05   yeah I was sitting in the press section two or three seats away from John and I [TS]

00:03:12   took a picture to come up is it so dark in the area you know with the audience's [TS]

00:03:17   stages but I got a picture of him looking happy amazing we were so [TS]

00:03:24   disappointed because generally for the last few years it's been the three of us [TS]

00:03:28   in the keynote and we were genuinely disappointed that we couldn't see his [TS]

00:03:33   like victory dance and is seen as United I'm assuming that there was some sort of [TS]

00:03:37   complete spaz attack that happened and we didn't experience I don't have much [TS]

00:03:42   recollection of them had already tweeted earlier in the thing is this real life [TS]

00:03:47   when he called Dr Dre that's like really go up to the reality is like wild [TS]

00:03:56   exuberance from John is just like a big smile I should keep their pictures [TS]

00:04:03   so they announced you know it so I forget the exact way they bring to but [TS]

00:04:07   it was we've got to just SDK and it is the awkward thing where Tim Cook had to [TS]

00:04:11   explain you know everybody hurts never heard of an SDK software development kit [TS]

00:04:15   and then there's this weird thing there are words like come on come on really [TS]

00:04:20   good explained with SDK is a developer conference I know that this is being [TS]

00:04:24   simulcast to a hundred million people and there's price in these people don't [TS]

00:04:28   really get it but come on but then you know it was real proud to announce today [TS]

00:04:34   we're introducing a brand new programming language and I look over at [TS]

00:04:39   John and it was still no reaction and then it was like I think his initial [TS]

00:04:44   thought was there's gotta be a catch [TS]

00:04:46   remember when he said that I remember is the audio earnings swift logo and i was [TS]

00:04:54   just a very little recollection of just started I was happy I was just so happy [TS]

00:04:58   that this is really happening and like everyone else is it like to write the [TS]

00:05:06   green shirt like the smile just very slowly to spreads in I can only imagine [TS]

00:05:12   I'm very jealous you got to witness first-hand [TS]

00:05:15   it was the highlight of the keynote for me was seeing his reaction is there [TS]

00:05:21   really wasn't I feel like then they they kind of immediately kind of framed it [TS]

00:05:25   that way where it was sort of a if you've been following this platform long [TS]

00:05:30   enough to hear new programming language and its gonna be another bridge is [TS]

00:05:35   new programming language like new to you it's going to be Python are you going to [TS]

00:05:39   elevate the Ruby you know or is it the real deal is it really a new Apple [TS]

00:05:45   programming language custom-built for our brand marks and as a holy shit yes [TS]

00:05:50   it is [TS]

00:05:50   different different syntax not Objective C 4.0 you know all the things that they [TS]

00:05:56   could have done it is the whole 2006 the whole debate amongst all this is why [TS]

00:06:00   they need a new language they just look at how they've improved objective see [TS]

00:06:04   nobody thought they were never settle the debate you know it's it's [TS]

00:06:09   unequivocal looks on like Objective C in anyway so how much of you guys looked at [TS]

00:06:16   swift so far only a little bit and I didn't go to did you know you went to [TS]

00:06:21   the introduction to stress that if we had all just had time to read that big I [TS]

00:06:24   books or PDF know a lot about it but we haven't but I bet if you read that you [TS]

00:06:28   know more than you do from going to that section III pope [TS]

00:06:33   I poked through a poster that bug little bits and pieces to see things that I [TS]

00:06:37   thought were interesting and we were talking the other night about how [TS]

00:06:41   closures are gonna be handled and whether or not you need to do memory [TS]

00:06:44   stop and it turns out yeah you need to do that but I mean really I'm just [TS]

00:06:47   thrilled that it's not parole because dealing with dealing with its own also [TS]

00:06:52   dealing with the smugness [TS]

00:06:55   just being there to enlist rubias Rubio Rubio visits my eye I want you guys [TS]

00:07:06   shine but I listened ATP every week I don't need another episode is that the [TS]

00:07:15   whole you complain about perot and no more prone last time we say that we have [TS]

00:07:21   months of material for our show when is the last time I don't know if I did I'd [TS]

00:07:28   like usual I've done the research when is the last time Apple introduced its [TS]

00:07:32   own programming language off the top of my head I wanna say Apple script Dylan [TS]

00:07:38   maybe ya dil in but Dylan never did it ship could you ever write an actual [TS]

00:07:43   thing in the real world using it I don't know maybe not right [TS]

00:07:46   discourse composer count for anything I don't think it's a program and I think [TS]

00:07:52   Apple script was the last hyper talk no Apple script came after hyper talk talk [TS]

00:07:58   with first I'm almost sure somebody someone in the chat room again right [TS]

00:08:06   no I think I think about the card was like 1989 or so and Apple script came [TS]

00:08:12   out and somewhere in a system seven years so it was i think im 71 right and [TS]

00:08:19   i think that big picture . getting down to the nitty-gritty of the details of [TS]

00:08:24   what Swift is actually like as a programming language zoom out and just [TS]

00:08:28   kind of look at it and get the basics I really do think that it is a very [TS]

00:08:31   happily programming language or at least representative of today's Apple to [TS]

00:08:39   modernize gonna say like Dylan represents the nineties at all and and [TS]

00:08:42   Apple script I think Apple script is very much of language and and by 1991 92 [TS]

00:08:51   Apple where you know the whole idea of we're not gonna make programmers happy [TS]

00:08:57   we're going to be a regular people programmers just like the hippy dippy [TS]

00:09:00   kind of academic language like I have a highfalutin idea and I'm gonna body that [TS]

00:09:04   idea a beautiful language or whatever it whereas you know Swift is pragmatic it's [TS]

00:09:09   it's Chris Lattner eyes like it is nine hundred percent like everything else [TS]

00:09:12   they've done it like down brass tacks we need this thing to do X Y and Z and [TS]

00:09:16   we're gonna make it and it's a little bit ugly we don't care [TS]

00:09:18   totally pragmatic yeah and I compared my analogy is to the use of help that occur [TS]

00:09:24   throughout the UI on iOS and now on on OS 10 Helvetica is a great fun and I i [TS]

00:09:33   always been a big fan of it but it's also famously very plain fun some people [TS]

00:09:38   a lot of people considered to be the most neutral find that exists that you [TS]

00:09:43   know they call it's with typography but that it you know I think part of the [TS]

00:09:47   reason that phrase even comes on not just at the Swiss use funds like [TS]

00:09:50   Helvetica but that it's the sense of neutrality and when you use Helvetica [TS]

00:09:54   for anything nobody ever says my god you're so clever you found this amazing [TS]

00:09:58   fun that I never heard of its a very plain fun [TS]

00:10:03   and I think what like when they first unveiled the iPhone I remember people [TS]

00:10:06   complained about it that wow what an uninspiring choice Helvetica I think [TS]

00:10:11   Swift is that kind of programming language where there's no real amazing [TS]

00:10:14   complicated it's got a weird saris though like it is I think so at that [TS]

00:10:20   point the edges I think the more you look into it the more you see some rain [TS]

00:10:24   it's kind of more of a mongrel a medication like that like bats in the [TS]

00:10:28   middle of right it's like Helvetica and they've added a couple of Apple's [TS]

00:10:33   Pacific emo Jai right to the main Langer right to the main characters so you know [TS]

00:10:41   you haven't looked at it yet so well you know I think it's not PHP you know I [TS]

00:10:50   looked at you know for 10 minutes so none of us well there's random sample [TS]

00:10:55   people here they didn't use much of it yet but none of us have really used it [TS]

00:11:00   we're not going to know whether it's a good language or not for awhile you know [TS]

00:11:05   it's gonna get it takes you have to almost master language to really know [TS]

00:11:10   whether it's good or not and usually most languages are and you know [TS]

00:11:13   categorically good or bad there's no blood money so I think right now you can [TS]

00:11:17   look at it the same way that when a whole Russia programmers came to Iowa [TS]

00:11:23   for the first time to make apps for the App Store in the big gold rush [TS]

00:11:26   ever get to see what a weird language all these brackets everywhere and what [TS]

00:11:30   the heck does that met the definition without that weird syntax and it looked [TS]

00:11:34   weird and foreign to them but the language is actually much better than [TS]

00:11:37   that once you get used to it with swift I think we're looking at it now and a [TS]

00:11:42   lot of him saying this is amazing but it might actually being worse than we think [TS]

00:11:46   because we aren't familiar with it yet it's probably gonna be better than we [TS]

00:11:49   think but it's gonna take a while before any of us are familiar enough to really [TS]

00:11:53   make that call I think it has the same effect is like the new look like iOS 7 [TS]

00:11:57   or are your sanity when I was saying this I went when they put Objective C up [TS]

00:12:01   on the slides now have two scenes with her while you can't go back to look at [TS]

00:12:06   the old like I mean it whether it's better and I like it is seen it such a [TS]

00:12:09   huge leap over objectives in terms of capabilities and like compactness and [TS]

00:12:13   expressiveness that it's really hard to go back and look at a DEC you see [TS]

00:12:16   examples you see all this noise is not there and swift and I don't think I will [TS]

00:12:21   ever be able to go back into my house with ends up maybe has terrible war [TS]

00:12:24   surreal design problems or whatever it's clear that Apple's committed to it we're [TS]

00:12:28   gonna be using it so it's also kind of weird that like a kind of came out as [TS]

00:12:34   this fully formed idea and they mentioned they're going to revise it [TS]

00:12:37   slightly over time with our feedback but it came out of nowhere and all of a [TS]

00:12:44   sudden boom that's this pretty advanced language of tons of capabilities out of [TS]

00:12:48   the blue and flick fully designed within this little you know subset very small [TS]

00:12:54   subset of Apple Valley design here this is an early language period it came out [TS]

00:13:00   and not only wasn't leagues or rumored it wasn't even on people's wish lists [TS]

00:13:06   like you know [TS]

00:13:09   there was one of us really I don't think any of us expected this would come out [TS]

00:13:16   this year at all i mean many of us myself included didn't expect to get to [TS]

00:13:21   see to be replaced for the next decade and you mentioned it specifically of [TS]

00:13:27   that it's it's Tuesday we've only known about it for 36 hours or so can you not [TS]

00:13:34   gonna say hey on when I rewrite the overcast download manager for the fifth [TS]

00:13:38   time I'm going to use swift but you know but it does seem like it seems like one [TS]

00:13:45   of the ways that I think it I wouldn't bet heavily on it [TS]

00:13:50   working out and very quickly you know like in a way like that whatever you [TS]

00:13:55   thought about the iOS 7 look when it first came out whether you loved it [TS]

00:13:58   right away or you hate it or whatever I think a gyro in to the other week when [TS]

00:14:05   you look back at the old iowa's it's who you know it's really looks bad it looks [TS]

00:14:10   old and I think that it's not going to take long before Objective C takes on [TS]

00:14:14   that look of my god [TS]

00:14:16   already there is absolutely i mean during the presentations will flip back [TS]

00:14:21   and forth between slides Objective C and slides and swift and just like jon said [TS]

00:14:25   the moment you get back to Objective C it's like well that feels Christian [TS]

00:14:28   familiar but that it's like an old girlfriend or boyfriend right you know [TS]

00:14:31   it's like at the time that would but I really liked him or her but now ten [TS]

00:14:35   fifteen years on who didn't do too well after that [TS]

00:14:40   wow [TS]

00:14:45   and I think that it's gonna get up take quickly is one is that there they still [TS]

00:14:56   have all the same frameworks the frameworks are the same it's a new [TS]

00:14:59   language on top of the framework so they're not saying we've introduced this [TS]

00:15:03   new thing and it's all new and it's the next generation thing and you kinda have [TS]

00:15:08   to go on and it wants and we've only done this much of its a fire it's [TS]

00:15:12   already all of the frameworks and I think that's huge and it means that you [TS]

00:15:17   can still think about starting the user right away and I think the other thing [TS]

00:15:20   is the way that they're really encouraging and emphasizing a lucid I've [TS]

00:15:23   seen so far just in the first day that you can start taking existing apps and [TS]

00:15:28   just rewrite one class using swift and you know just go like that or just start [TS]

00:15:33   adding your new you know new features in swift and keep the old said you don't [TS]

00:15:36   have to rewrite the whole app you don't have to have a swift out for an object [TS]

00:15:40   of Seattle they're just Coco apps and parts are written in Objective C in [TS]

00:15:45   parts are written in swept this before with are going to two years ago some [TS]

00:15:49   like that it was a similar situation where that's really cool thing and you [TS]

00:15:53   can use it selectively here and there but clearly it's in everyone's best [TS]

00:15:57   interests in Apple's best interest it's in our best interest to to embrace this [TS]

00:16:01   and really run with it and so it's a very similar tact as to what what [TS]

00:16:05   happened with are also pretty confident that you know if you think about I think [TS]

00:16:10   the chances of this being a very good language or very high because you see is [TS]

00:16:14   a very good language and in a lot of ways I I'm a big fan of it I know it I [TS]

00:16:19   PHP but that's we all know but if you think about the the amount of thought [TS]

00:16:26   and criticism that must have come to this language during its development [TS]

00:16:30   from the people at Apple who decide what programming language they use those [TS]

00:16:35   people are probably not only in very smart but also extremely critical and [TS]

00:16:40   careful when making a change like this and so I think there it's very very [TS]

00:16:44   likely to end up being a very good language because of how it came to be [TS]

00:16:48   about the small group of people that have seen this visit has been so secret [TS]

00:16:53   and some some groups inside Apple have been looking at it like I think [TS]

00:16:57   developers here in the audience when they showed you dot dot dot dot dot and [TS]

00:17:04   explain how they were different video right after they told you about how they [TS]

00:17:08   don't have a cow falters in the case statements and require brackets on the [TS]

00:17:12   absent but then we made a mistake but you're gonna regret twenty years from [TS]

00:17:14   now made two different operators that differ by a period [TS]

00:17:18   behave differently to make I don't think that would have survived by contact with [TS]

00:17:23   the outside world and so it shows that the group that they have inside Apple [TS]

00:17:27   like me i'm not saying it's like insulin but they have to keep secret for years [TS]

00:17:31   alright timeout explain her reign job yet but there's thousands of people out [TS]

00:17:39   there listening to the show later I'm talking to them so there's some called a [TS]

00:17:45   range operator and you can write like the digital one dot dot dot 5 and that [TS]

00:17:52   returns an array of 12345 it builds in with it knows if it are integers it [TS]

00:17:59   knows that one in the middle are the dot dot dot and counting to the audience but [TS]

00:18:06   it [TS]

00:18:08   if you only used to die if you do one dot dot 5 it doesn't return the last [TS]

00:18:15   item it returns 1234 the missing dot means don't give me the last one and so [TS]

00:18:21   it makes total sense to a Perl programmer I think you said two dots [TS]

00:18:26   includes both endpoints and three dots doesn't include the last one I forget 10 [TS]

00:18:29   no more dots includes more anyway I didn't come without uses just two dots [TS]

00:18:37   and its range operator it's also a flip-flop and scalar context but don't [TS]

00:18:40   worry about it but yeah but like no that's that's the type of mistake that [TS]

00:18:45   makes me wonder about about it and they said that we reserve the right to change [TS]

00:18:49   its syntax we hope will get feedback so it's not a big deal but like you know [TS]

00:18:53   but being secret for years [TS]

00:18:55   effects it really says something this feature is so bad it's not even in PHP [TS]

00:18:59   and phpMyAdmin time [TS]

00:19:04   I do think and you know programming language is no different and in broad [TS]

00:19:10   aspects from anything even something visual and it I think Apple runs into [TS]

00:19:13   this time and time again with the secrecy and the way you keep stuff [TS]

00:19:17   secret is by keeping it a small team and not going outside the team and then the [TS]

00:19:22   smaller the team the more likely that there's some sort of blind spot on the [TS]

00:19:26   team and when we ever we see a major new initiative I think I was seven is a good [TS]

00:19:30   example and I probably wasn't a super tightly held secret within the company [TS]

00:19:34   but it was secret enough that there weren't screenshots that leaked and what [TS]

00:19:39   they showed us a year ago at WTC had a couple of really glaring like really [TS]

00:19:45   you're gonna go that in on the fun for mail that I can't see it it's not so [TS]

00:19:50   much a blind spot is that the group that's doing it has a hierarchy and so [TS]

00:19:54   even if there is a feedback within the group that we think this is a bad idea [TS]

00:19:57   if enough people in charge don't think it is the overweight the masses whereas [TS]

00:20:01   when you put it out to the public then it's you know what however many million [TS]

00:20:05   I was programs out there sending feedback and that is like a week and [TS]

00:20:08   there's no hierarchy among them it's just a you know that's the public [TS]

00:20:11   telling all there is [TS]

00:20:14   it's not it is not as straightforward as reporting relationships inside Apple [TS]

00:20:17   corporate so so one of the other things I took away from the chemo yesterday is [TS]

00:20:22   and I think it's fair I don't see how anybody could deny it I think it was a [TS]

00:20:26   year ago at the All Things D conference now it's the rico conference but I think [TS]

00:20:31   that's when Tim Cook said that he was gonna go double down on secrecy you know [TS]

00:20:35   I think that the question was most all along the lines of hey you guys are so [TS]

00:20:38   famously secretive but you've had some leaks are you guys going to open up some [TS]

00:20:41   more is a no no we're going to double down on secrecy were more committed to [TS]

00:20:44   another we think our customers like to have a surprise and we think [TS]

00:20:48   competitively as to our advantages and then other stuff [TS]

00:20:52   leaks you know mostly hardware and everybody black satin cook says a [TS]

00:20:56   doubling down on secrecy but look at all the stuff that leads I think it's very [TS]

00:21:01   clear at least there might be some exceptions somewhere that I'm thinking [TS]

00:21:05   but in general terms the only stuff that leads from apple recently is hardware [TS]

00:21:10   from the supply chain in asia that it just seems like there's too many places [TS]

00:21:15   there where there's factories and bribes and too many people who are seeing these [TS]

00:21:20   prototypes shelves coming out and too much money from the case you know the [TS]

00:21:25   people who make the cases to put on the phone [TS]

00:21:27   want them and willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get them so that [TS]

00:21:31   they can have their case ready before their competitors but in terms of stuff [TS]

00:21:36   that just happens at Apple's campus the secrecy i think is better than ever [TS]

00:21:40   especially you know the whole programming language the screenshots [TS]

00:21:45   like yosemite everybody had guess is what was gonna look like but to my [TS]

00:21:49   knowledge not a single actual screenshot League yeah I mean that's one of the [TS]

00:21:54   most impressive part about the keynote is how much stuff blew our minds and [TS]

00:21:58   only because it was major but because we didn't see it coming you know and like a [TS]

00:22:03   great example you know it even like a week ago two weeks ago you were [TS]

00:22:08   predicting that they would have problems with how to deal with Windows shadow [TS]

00:22:11   in a new flattened environment because we were all predicting iOS 7 was a [TS]

00:22:16   radical redesign and so therefore this is going to be a radical redesign and [TS]

00:22:20   it's gonna look nothing like it did before it turns out it looks a lot like [TS]

00:22:23   it did before it just it's a it's you know it's an evolution of the design and [TS]

00:22:27   it's a little bit it's a bigger step than the usually taken one revision but [TS]

00:22:33   you could see them like making small steps over the next four releases [TS]

00:22:36   getting where it is anyway you know and and so all these crazy prediction that [TS]

00:22:41   we have it would look crazy you know just totally unfamiliar totally [TS]

00:22:45   different everything's all flattened with them lines that didn't come to be [TS]

00:22:49   and what they gave us is something that just makes a lot more sense yeah it [TS]

00:22:55   doesn't look like iOS it looks related to iOS you know like siblings who don't [TS]

00:23:02   even look that much alike but they kinda look clearly like siblings it's [TS]

00:23:05   definitely not like iOS running on the iPad which is what I was kind of worried [TS]

00:23:09   about ya oh yeah I think we were all pretty worried about that and and I you [TS]

00:23:13   know I think when they when they were about to show I think we were all year [TS]

00:23:16   ago they're gonna kill every level back its gonna be really weird and I get used [TS]

00:23:21   to it but we don't have to do that it you know it's it turns out it's fine [TS]

00:23:24   what about the icons is that to me is the one thing that everybody loves to [TS]

00:23:30   gripe about and and and iOS 7 I would say like like that this time a year ago [TS]

00:23:34   I would say eighty percent of what I was hearing was about how fuckin ugly 2007 [TS]

00:23:38   icons were alright that's just even concede the point that these icons are [TS]

00:23:43   ugly the whole OS was redesigned can we talk about something else and I feel [TS]

00:23:47   like with the Mac OS 10 they they didn't go to a unified shape which is what I [TS]

00:23:51   kinda thought they were gonna do it just seemed to be the same as iOS four ever [TS]

00:23:55   be a circle but I kinda thought they would cause it seems like that's the [TS]

00:23:59   direction they're going but they didn't it's you know they're just a little bit [TS]

00:24:02   more iOS you but not really did three shapes yeah it's free it's like the its [TS]

00:24:08   circular and then like it tilted rectangle rate and [TS]

00:24:11   then in a rounded record something along those lines and I actually really like [TS]

00:24:15   them I don't know if it's like I'm just excited about something new but I [TS]

00:24:18   actually really like them I don't like them as much as John likes to Settings [TS]

00:24:22   icon which is a lot but but but I do I do like them overall yeah and I think [TS]

00:24:28   it's if you look at what we have to do today in previous two to yosemite it was [TS]

00:24:35   looking at it when you have a doc full of all these icons are already different [TS]

00:24:38   shapes and some of them have been updated in a decade it does kinda look [TS]

00:24:43   dated and I think this is a nice a nice way to modernize it without being too [TS]

00:24:48   restrictive to ISE and maybe the reason why we got these this flexibility of [TS]

00:24:54   having three shapes to choose from work strapless flexibility I may be that [TS]

00:24:59   actually like they're recommending you choose one of those is the [TS]

00:25:02   recommendation people can do whatever they want their icon right but they've [TS]

00:25:07   officially said though that these are the three shapes you should choose from [TS]

00:25:10   that phone book to be looked at like this always somehow that doesn't get the [TS]

00:25:16   nice treatment I didn't know that and I think that I think that's why we got [TS]

00:25:20   these options because I bet even Apple internally could not decide on any of [TS]

00:25:25   these shapes to have all of their icon become that shape so we got choice when [TS]

00:25:29   the one thing I'm also very excited about is perhaps the sea of blue icons [TS]

00:25:33   on my dog at least it'll be like a circular blue icon and a tilted blue [TS]

00:25:37   icon and that's where the orange now I think that about iTunes is red I think [TS]

00:25:44   it's safe to say I'm gonna pull the audience in a second but you think it's [TS]

00:25:48   safe to say that the USMNT design is far less contentious than I was only because [TS]

00:25:56   I was seven came first though this game before I was seventy flipping out as we [TS]

00:26:00   wouldn't know that they taking bars on the buttons was even an option if I [TS]

00:26:03   wasn't until now like thank God the boxes around them and everything's fine [TS]

00:26:09   honestly might buy I think I texted Dave wickets afterwards were talking about [TS]

00:26:14   you know how we're going to Vespers from acting like I just like all capped it I [TS]

00:26:17   was like buttons look like buttons I have it I have a review unit apples of [TS]

00:26:27   gaming running 10 ate already so I've spent a couple hours on it today and you [TS]

00:26:32   do too but you guys haven't really you i mean it's only one day you guys have [TS]

00:26:36   installed care about them only half of us get press passes he does have a Mac [TS]

00:26:41   just a Mexico right i mean i havent texted six what looks good I played with [TS]

00:26:46   the playground stuff for swift and that looks really awesome but I i'm the only [TS]

00:26:49   stuff on Yosemite obscene is watching over John shoulders he was fiddling with [TS]

00:26:53   it earlier today we're not special enough to get review units I dunno just [TS]

00:26:57   poking around and going through settings and stuff it I'm surprised maybe even in [TS]

00:27:03   a good way I i think in a good way that it's really is mostly is skin deep [TS]

00:27:09   change it's really just a new team and and very little else is changing even [TS]

00:27:14   little things that I really thought we're going to go away like the blue or [TS]

00:27:20   graphite highlight color choice thing which you know I know why they did it [TS]

00:27:25   back in 2001 it was everybody flipped out because my god bright blue you know [TS]

00:27:30   I don't like bright blue and their legal right here you go there's something [TS]

00:27:32   weird I've been running for fourteen years but that option is still there [TS]

00:27:38   exactly the wording is unchanged the you know I think we're all afraid I was [TS]

00:27:43   there was gonna be like Windows 8 we're like finders gone all it is is excited [TS]

00:27:47   by it sweeps in from the side that has a grid of icons launch pad is the new [TS]

00:27:50   Finder or System Preferences now is a full screen app icons are giant like [TS]

00:27:54   it's not it's just like you said every strength then there's an awful lot of [TS]

00:27:57   apps that to me just look just the theme is different everything else is pretty [TS]

00:28:02   much the same there's a lot of apps that are just unchanged [TS]

00:28:05   I'm pretty happy about that and the new look at like when it's on the slides you [TS]

00:28:10   like I'm not sure about it or whatever but when you see it when you see it in [TS]

00:28:13   the elements like a look at the new Safari with all kind comes together like [TS]

00:28:16   alright it's go hearing it is all of a piece whether you like it or not it [TS]

00:28:20   doesn't look like something slap together you can kind of see a [TS]

00:28:23   continuous static on it which apps that have not been completely converted like [TS]

00:28:28   you just take your aptitude never knew existed launched it may be that a [TS]

00:28:32   lookout but Apple's own after leading the way in a reasonable way of saying [TS]

00:28:35   this is what it could look like check it out there are simple there like one [TS]

00:28:39   title bar once I Barna source list or whatever like I don't know what [TS]

00:28:42   Photoshop should look like they used to view of it I think when I have seen the [TS]

00:28:48   screenshots and little damage using here and there like the most jarring change [TS]

00:28:52   to me is the change which we were all you know like we've been saying we've [TS]

00:28:57   been thinking for a long time [TS]

00:28:58   oh yeah well they're probably gonna change the font is probably gonna be a [TS]

00:29:02   variant had to deal with that along with as they blow up the interface you know [TS]

00:29:06   and that ends up that's like that's like the biggest most noticeable change now I [TS]

00:29:11   also think that it looks it looks natural on a Retina display and maybe [TS]

00:29:15   that's because that's the review unit the game is a retina MacBook Pro so [TS]

00:29:19   that's what I've seen it on but I i've never thought that Mac OS 10 look quite [TS]

00:29:23   right on the retina display until now because it just always look to me faith [TS]

00:29:27   like fake version of Mac OS 10 ginned up for a movie version of movie actors make [TS]

00:29:33   a right [TS]

00:29:34   yeah that's what it always looked like to me it's like end and part of it is [TS]

00:29:37   fun but Lucida Grande whatever you know ever greater was in 2001 2002 with their [TS]

00:29:42   big fat pixels on CRT displays back then and the way that all the hunting helped [TS]

00:29:48   the strokes fall on the pixel grid we don't need to worry about that shit [TS]

00:29:53   anymore I mean we've retina displays and nobody doing 309 output whatever use [TS]

00:29:58   Lucida Grande thing about the old look was that all the interest was in the [TS]

00:30:04   service details this looks like it's kind of made out of metal and it looks [TS]

00:30:07   like it's kind of shiny or whatever and when you take all that away and they did [TS]

00:30:10   take it all away with the flatness [TS]

00:30:11   everything the only thing you have left to lean on ethically speaking its [TS]

00:30:15   sharpness and so this looks great honor I think it doesn't look as if not read [TS]

00:30:19   this letter and display it's like what we have here is cleanliness sharpness [TS]

00:30:23   and this team takes advantage of that and I think this would not be a [TS]

00:30:27   successful Brenda didn't exist no I don't I definitely think so I don't [TS]

00:30:31   think you know no way that it would look and I don't think iOS would either you [TS]

00:30:37   know I don't think there was any world where the iOS 7 look what I've ever hit [TS]

00:30:40   before those devices always there for the poor iPad Mini first gen that's a [TS]

00:30:46   device there really is gonna be all bottom because they were so small so [TS]

00:30:50   light and now that the red ones exist and you look at that first of all I like [TS]

00:30:57   how long are they going to actually keep supporting the A five like you know we [TS]

00:31:00   we lucked out this year but it's now the minimum so I'm thinking it's not get my [TS]

00:31:05   last nine Apple PR will never they're all everybody works there's no pro and [TS]

00:31:11   no never ever even off the record a single word that is against Apple's [TS]

00:31:17   interests because their PR people that's what they do and I remember at WBC last [TS]

00:31:21   year after the keynote when I got the briefing and the you know what you think [TS]

00:31:25   but I was seven and have any questions I get asked questions and one of my [TS]

00:31:28   questions was everything your show this all looks great I really liked it I [TS]

00:31:32   think it's great direction but every device you're showing it to me on as a [TS]

00:31:35   Retina Display what about the iPad Mini is it going to get the same luck and I [TS]

00:31:39   guess yeah and I was like I see it and they're like oh yeah and I was like is [TS]

00:31:45   it gonna look good and there was like no ads [TS]

00:31:50   looks fine and then they are you know somebody was there already with another [TS]

00:31:54   question like you know how is your son and they're still selling those new [TS]

00:32:01   a lot of disappointed I mean on retina iPad Mini owners in about a year [TS]

00:32:08   you know I hope this fall daily stop selling them and then you know next year [TS]

00:32:12   I was not announced no more a five devices [TS]

00:32:16   there's a lot of a five devices out there totaling the last big ticket thing [TS]

00:32:22   is that to me it was the keynote yesterday was a sign of how Apple is [TS]

00:32:27   playing a very long game in most of these regards and I think they've got a [TS]

00:32:33   years-long road map and plan and we only see them on these four months six-month [TS]

00:32:42   intervals of here's what we have ready for you now and it's so easy and I think [TS]

00:32:47   so many people misunderstand the company think that in between one and the next [TS]

00:32:51   everything they've done is what they've done in between the next that everything [TS]

00:32:55   they announced today is all the stuff that they've decided to do in the last [TS]

00:32:59   12 months since last WWDC and so you see a you see it with the keyboards on the [TS]

00:33:05   third party keyboards for iOS and there were questions be by in the press area [TS]

00:33:11   have to ask you what made you change your mind on these what what you know is [TS]

00:33:15   it because they're so popular on Android you know as it did [TS]

00:33:18   customers are asked for it and they didn't we've been working on this for [TS]

00:33:21   years you know that we really you know and you can argue maybe engineering lies [TS]

00:33:24   it shouldn't have taken years but their explanation is that they're thinking [TS]

00:33:27   about it for a long time I mean we've been talking about XP see WBC is four [TS]

00:33:33   years of inner application communication and how are they going to do it and I [TS]

00:33:38   think that you know typical Apple they wanted to get it right and that's just a [TS]

00:33:43   sign it short memories though that wasn't last year's the BBC or [TS]

00:33:46   third-party keyboards like guaranteed a lock for the key november that rumor [TS]

00:33:50   that the press to be fair you know that the press usually mostly martes martes [TS]

00:33:57   you they most of them [TS]

00:33:59   you know they we asked them to remember alive in this business we we asked them [TS]

00:34:06   to remember a lot like can you can you name the whatever phone 12 months ago [TS]

00:34:11   was the iPhone killer that month that we there's a lot going on in the press [TS]

00:34:17   there's a lot of Apple keeps dying and being doomed and you know and and they [TS]

00:34:22   just they just cant remember simple things like that you know products take [TS]

00:34:25   more than a year to develop the one thing they announced yesterday that I [TS]

00:34:30   that I makes me wonder whether they've changed their mind over the last few [TS]

00:34:35   years is iCloud drive because it seemed to me that maybe that was just the spin [TS]

00:34:44   at the time before they had the find function but it seemed to me that there [TS]

00:34:47   are an awful lot of people who were saying okay with the iCloud documents I [TS]

00:34:52   can build something that is just like Dropbox right long story short list just [TS]

00:34:58   like Dropbox but takes my club credentials and then it's you know it's [TS]

00:35:01   not like a nasty finder hack it's built into the system and their answer was you [TS]

00:35:06   know I don't know [TS]

00:35:09   maybe you know maybe who knows maybe even those in the audience are some poor [TS]

00:35:14   guy from Apple in the audience who's been working on iCloud drive for six [TS]

00:35:17   years and you know non-stop with the original vision that is exactly like [TS]

00:35:22   what they announced yesterday but I don't know it makes me think that maybe [TS]

00:35:25   they thought they could get away with not having a here's where you're going [TS]

00:35:29   to save your files experience on iOS and maybe they've come to conclude that that [TS]

00:35:34   was wrong or short-sighted you know when I first when I first launched the [TS]

00:35:39   magazine I tried not having a Settings panel was like you know settings panels [TS]

00:35:44   are clunky hack let me see if I can just get away with not having any settings at [TS]

00:35:49   all just make good decisions and I'll let you know [TS]

00:35:51   surface things to textually and it turned out that that was a bad idea it [TS]

00:35:54   was required meet you do other bad hacks that made the overall product actually [TS]

00:35:59   worse and I had to eventually backtrack on that iCloud document model stories [TS]

00:36:04   and iCloud file story I think had a similar problem where they designed it [TS]

00:36:09   in with with this goal in mind let's get rid of files and folders exposed to the [TS]

00:36:14   user and and let's make this thing just saying any help you know I never had [TS]

00:36:18   never heard that from the start so let's just give these little silos inside of [TS]

00:36:22   each app and they'll have these flat lists of files in that app and it won't [TS]

00:36:27   be able to talk to each other it'll be fun that's kind of how it works and then [TS]

00:36:30   they brought to match their kind of this hidden folder buried somewhere deeply in [TS]

00:36:35   the hierarchy that you're not supposed to deal with just trust us there [TS]

00:36:38   somewhere [TS]

00:36:39   files somewhere and I think that proved to be a model that they they had this [TS]

00:36:44   goal in mind the simplicity but the reality of that the practicality of [TS]

00:36:50   people using that and multiple a productivity and things just simple [TS]

00:36:55   things like where are these files so I can back them up you know the simple [TS]

00:36:59   things like that the reality made that idea [TS]

00:37:02   worse and practice and they would have had to do a bunch of crazy hacks they [TS]

00:37:07   tried to do lunch tracy has to make it work out that actually made a worse [TS]

00:37:12   overall experience and so I think this is then recognizing you know one common [TS]

00:37:17   place where you store files that behaves like a folder full of other folder [TS]

00:37:22   hours people are okay with that you know that give people a little bit of credit [TS]

00:37:25   that folder might not be where you want to be it might be their desktop but [TS]

00:37:29   people do that they are ok with having all files live in one place for all [TS]

00:37:33   applications within the subfolders maybe for some of the Paisley that's a model [TS]

00:37:37   that works Dropbox has proven it computers before that people are okay [TS]

00:37:42   with that i think thats that'll realizing like if we're gonna start [TS]

00:37:46   breaking down some of these productivity barriers between iOS and Mac everything [TS]

00:37:49   that they interact indications are that this is this will go a long way if we [TS]

00:37:54   could give up a little bit of our vision about what I was supposed to be so are [TS]

00:37:58   you at all nervous John about the fact that they are putting a lot of eggs in [TS]

00:38:02   the basket and I know it's almost trendy 22 bitch and moan about how I club [TS]

00:38:06   doesn't work the way they say it shouldn't and so on but I mean it seems [TS]

00:38:11   to me like they're they're going all in on iCloud and that could be dangerous [TS]

00:38:15   like how do you feel about dangerous how just because we especially as developers [TS]

00:38:20   and a lot of us don't have anything in the fact that iCloud is really strong [TS]

00:38:24   stable available etc and so now they're now Apple saying no really we are all in [TS]

00:38:31   on iCloud so you guys are you might as well come along and I didn't go to the [TS]

00:38:34   cloud kids session today but I've heard unbelievably positive things about it so [TS]

00:38:38   do you have like how does that make you feel you nervous already I think it's [TS]

00:38:44   inevitable I don't need to have a choice I think that again I might be reading [TS]

00:38:49   into this John you might notice you were actually at the conference all day and [TS]

00:38:52   sleeping but I it seems not doing away with it because if you're already using [TS]

00:38:58   it to him again but it seems like the thing to do no longer talking about is [TS]

00:39:01   iCloud core data syncing talking about the end of the cloud get session they're [TS]

00:39:06   likely at all is iCloud things when should I use each one remember the [TS]

00:39:10   marquee value storage and it documents in the cloud and iCloud Core Data and [TS]

00:39:14   Cloud kit and they went through a mall and get down to iCloud card it up [TS]

00:39:18   they're gonna say never but they didn't mean to put a brave face on it but it [TS]

00:39:23   does a lot of similar things like in a different way I'm not sure they didn't [TS]

00:39:27   come right out and say we're deprecated in the ways that didn't work and this is [TS]

00:39:30   the new way but they have to have a suite of things under the umbrella of [TS]

00:39:34   iCloud and some of them are better than others I'm hoping these new ones are the [TS]

00:39:38   best yet find out you know I think I think they'll make it work I because I [TS]

00:39:43   think the day no I don't think there's any doubt that they know that they have [TS]

00:39:46   to do well at it I think the things you have to worry about without blur the [TS]

00:39:50   things where it seems like they don't they don't seem to think it's important [TS]

00:39:54   well be committed to the club the first time when jobs up there and set up no I [TS]

00:39:58   didn't know the clouds in the middle lines come out from that that seemed [TS]

00:40:01   like a recommitment to it but then what they offer and was like some good some [TS]

00:40:05   bad now I'm getting a better buy from the new stuff it seems like all the [TS]

00:40:09   things that you like that worked well about iCloud these are more like those [TS]

00:40:13   or in the case of cloud get this is more like what everyone was doing instead of [TS]

00:40:16   using iCloud card and they were forced to do their own thing and they would use [TS]

00:40:19   you know people like databases like Pepsi model FMD beer whatever this is [TS]

00:40:24   like that but with an apple two piston really awesome and everything and that's [TS]

00:40:27   actually pretty similar to what happened between core data plus iCloud and now [TS]

00:40:32   the new client is actually very similar I just saying about the Callaghan their [TS]

00:40:35   original view original vision of this is how we're gonna do iCloud its gonna have [TS]

00:40:41   this magical simply just keep using Core Data everything's just magically sings [TS]

00:40:46   and of course that that wasn't a server problem that was a design problem and [TS]

00:40:51   appreciated I closed the problem call card data it would be great to put up a [TS]

00:40:55   sign that says that it works on iCloud and then everything will be fine but [TS]

00:40:58   let's base and they basically an ounce CoreData Franklin the didn't so I think [TS]

00:41:03   cloud kid is then again it's like it's similar to how they kind of made i [TS]

00:41:07   fouled file picking a little more like Dropbox that's what people actually need [TS]

00:41:11   and it's a it's a better overall design in reality I think loud kit is solving [TS]

00:41:17   so many of the same needs as iCloud core data but it is a much better design for [TS]

00:41:22   reality the one thing then you know no surprise and everybody knows Apple is [TS]

00:41:26   ecosystem company and that they want you know stuff is supposed to work better [TS]

00:41:30   and we're gonna have time to get into all the continuities topic on duty stuff [TS]

00:41:34   is an acknowledgement that that if if you have an iPhone and Mac you get this [TS]

00:41:40   amazing feature that you could not have if you use an Android phone where you [TS]

00:41:43   can start writing an email and switch to the Mac and I played with that and i got [TS]

00:41:48   a demo of it and it works it's very very cool I can definitely see using it but [TS]

00:41:56   that they're adding all these other developer things though I think with the [TS]

00:41:58   hopes of getting more apps to go apple only you know like I think the idea [TS]

00:42:05   would be like taking a plague Instagram that had enormous server-side costs [TS]

00:42:10   because it's photos and lots of users and they want to be social name when I [TS]

00:42:14   get a lot of people to sign up and I think that iCloud cloud kid is sort of a [TS]

00:42:21   hey you want to build a thing like Instagram don't even worry about the [TS]

00:42:25   server stuff and we'll give you really really generous amounts of storage and [TS]

00:42:29   bandwidth well for getting it off the ground right and the end there's a big [TS]

00:42:35   question mark like they were like here it's free and you get all this for free [TS]

00:42:37   and then there was no like what happens after that I think what happens is you [TS]

00:42:41   get a phone call from Apple and and they are a weenie dog I'm guessing it's gonna [TS]

00:42:47   be pretty price competitive I should I think it's hard to know if you're [TS]

00:42:50   looking at let's let's let's build a business on this you know let's talk [TS]

00:42:55   about Vesper right so the limit that they've been published in public [TS]

00:42:59   documents like I don't know what the NDA at the India situations we are too kind [TS]

00:43:02   of unspecified who knows but the limit is it something like a hundred megs per [TS]

00:43:06   user for like you know blob storage and then one meg for database storage now [TS]

00:43:11   that those sound load me like you couldn't it would be irresponsible for [TS]

00:43:17   you to design something like Instagram knowing that as soon as one of those [TS]

00:43:22   users had a hundred megs of photos something would stop and who knows what [TS]

00:43:28   your options would be at that point whether you'd even have any options or [TS]

00:43:31   whether like the call to clog it was just fine [TS]

00:43:34   with narrow parameters it's it's a lot of stuff it's only be outside your [TS]

00:43:38   control right and that's kind of it would be irresponsible to build on that [TS]

00:43:42   knowing that like there's this wall that you could bury you know it's not like [TS]

00:43:47   the limit is 50 terabytes per user like these are legal limits that are very [TS]

00:43:51   plausibly hit and exceeded and so you know what do you do and you just hope no [TS]

00:43:56   one hit that that's not very smart if you're going to build a service like [TS]

00:44:01   this that's like a network-based service that is like a cloud backend you gonna [TS]

00:44:05   do it on Apple only about platform and I get there maybe I mean maybe eighty [TS]

00:44:11   eight players in the service side space and then you're going to like this you [TS]

00:44:14   start getting bigger all we're getting big we should make an Android version we [TS]

00:44:17   should be the Kindle oh you can't like your your cat you're putting a cap on [TS]

00:44:22   your potential if you ever want to be the next Instagram [TS]

00:44:24   building block it but it's great for people who are not gonna be the next [TS]

00:44:28   instagramers want to have a great application like me again with Vestberg [TS]

00:44:31   you build that iCloud iOS on the Mac you could use cloud could do you know who [TS]

00:44:36   knows what we would have done a year ago of cloud kid came out a year ago but I [TS]

00:44:40   don't think we would have done anything differently I haven't seen anything that [TS]

00:44:42   really makes me regret doing our own back and because of that issues like do [TS]

00:44:47   we have plans to write an Android app well I don't think Brent knows how to [TS]

00:44:50   write and read absent minded maybe down the road you know right we could do a [TS]

00:44:57   Web Beacon even do a web app and we want to have those options and are thinking [TS]

00:45:01   in broad strokes was well we could maybe do something quicker if we build on [TS]

00:45:06   Dropbox or you know I had an option to do Dropbox or had an option to do [TS]

00:45:11   something with the core data iCloud syncing and then we'd work on her own [TS]

00:45:15   thing that would roll out but I think whenever you make it [TS]

00:45:18   engineering decision like that and you think what we'll do this stop-gap first [TS]

00:45:23   cuz it's quicker and dirtier and easier and will ship something first and then [TS]

00:45:26   we'll do the real good virgin then you never do the good version you're stuck [TS]

00:45:30   with the crappy ones data migration will kill you [TS]

00:45:32   so if we wanted to do it eventually then we should have done it first and I think [TS]

00:45:38   that we did it the right way I think spike it is the same sort of idea the [TS]

00:45:42   idea was to break it and it's a good one it's not all about locked in its not [TS]

00:45:45   surely cynical hey write your game with spray kit and you'll save all this work [TS]

00:45:50   but then you'll be stuck with an iOS only game I think it's you know from [TS]

00:45:56   Apple's perspective it's win-win that's what cocoa Cocoa Touch have done for [TS]

00:46:00   close to 30 years is take DDM away from programmers and do a really good [TS]

00:46:06   framework that you can count on but I wonder I don't know what the uptake is [TS]

00:46:11   under great kid because it just seems to me like most major effort mobile games [TS]

00:46:16   more than any other kind of at because of the nature games want to be [TS]

00:46:20   cross-platform or wanna be cross-platform eventually and so I just [TS]

00:46:24   don't know if it's ever gonna really take off I think we're looking at this [TS]

00:46:28   from the point of view of me i'm looking at some like loud kids well from my [TS]

00:46:34   point of view of wanting to design a really big web service that has gonna [TS]

00:46:39   have you know the six year life span and or or more than that maybe and and you [TS]

00:46:44   know possibly get to a billion dollar valuation somehow like that's yeah it [TS]

00:46:50   might not be good for that but there's a massive class of problems that these [TS]

00:46:54   kind of framework solve that are on a much smaller scale and most developers [TS]

00:46:58   are not working on things like that most developers are working on much smaller [TS]

00:47:01   apps that like if the alternative is no back and then cloud it is really nice [TS]

00:47:08   because it's it's a backhand you can use for limited value for limited purposes [TS]

00:47:11   but that's that's enough tons of applications spread get very similar [TS]

00:47:17   like yeah you're not you're not going to make the next you know Rovio company on [TS]

00:47:22   that because you're not going to be able to address all these other platforms [TS]

00:47:24   that hiring people to rewrite the engine for all of them eventually recovered [TS]

00:47:28   OpenGL or whatever but that's not what it's made to solve it and it's made to [TS]

00:47:32   solve much smaller needs for a far larger number of hours and you know once [TS]

00:47:38   you exceed those limits on these things then you're probably big enough that you [TS]

00:47:41   can't afford to migrate yes so for those of you with an ATP I've talked on and [TS]

00:47:46   off about how I really just want a really solid apt to share grocery list [TS]

00:47:49   with my wife and reminders will do it but it's crummy in other apps out there [TS]

00:47:53   for me if I wanted to write something I don't want to have to worry about VPS is [TS]

00:47:58   I don't have to worry about a lot of other things and so something like Cloud [TS]

00:48:02   kit is perfect for this app that I want to write really to scratch my own niche [TS]

00:48:06   and you know if I make a few bucks off its sweet but I'm never gonna be a [TS]

00:48:10   Vesper I'm never gonna be in Instapaper and overcast anything like that and [TS]

00:48:13   that's okay say that shipping out that's true and 11 last topic on the dirt paths [TS]

00:48:29   the way I think it's very telling about where Apple is today in a keynote [TS]

00:48:37   especially at WWDC keynote because the event ones are more focused is it a [TS]

00:48:40   we've just got this new iPad we want to show you but WABC you can see what Apple [TS]

00:48:45   thinks is important based on what kind of stented gets on stage right there's [TS]

00:48:49   the basic level of there's this thing and I'll just tell you in a bit of a [TS]

00:48:53   slide the thing and then it's on to the next topic then there's like bring out a [TS]

00:48:58   special guests and bring out like you know that I get too far and is I bring [TS]

00:49:03   out like a third party and say we brought them here a month ago we tied [TS]

00:49:07   them up in a room and made them write this thing and the one that got that the [TS]

00:49:11   only third-party that came on stage yesterday was epic and that was for [TS]

00:49:15   metal and yeah that's really goes against the idea that they were focusing [TS]

00:49:22   on the consumer stuff right medal and it's a replacement for OpenGL and blah [TS]

00:49:27   blah blah you know millions of triangles per second but Apple clearly sees it is [TS]

00:49:32   important because they spent a lot of time on it [TS]

00:49:35   and big demo and I think it's so interesting about where Apple is a [TS]

00:49:40   company today because it's not just that they've replaced OpenGL is that they've [TS]

00:49:44   gotten out of now the headache of OpenGL as I can open it's got like a consortium [TS]

00:49:51   behind it and so they want to get improvements to OpenGL so that it runs [TS]

00:49:55   better on a seven they've got to go through this process and now but all [TS]

00:50:00   that right [TS]

00:50:02   metal is exactly what Apple ones for talking to the GPUs that they've [TS]

00:50:09   designed like now they've got an API using the Jeep GPUs that was designed [TS]

00:50:14   hand-in-hand with the hard work guys were making the GPUs and that is not [TS]

00:50:20   something Apple 10 years ago could have done because Apple wasn't big enough [TS]

00:50:24   Microsoft do and they did it with tax and Microsoft could get away with it [TS]

00:50:30   because there were three four hundred million PCs out the world and a hundred [TS]

00:50:36   million people who want to play games and so Microsoft could say we've got [TS]

00:50:39   direct tax you're gonna program to direct tax and game developers said yes [TS]

00:50:46   Direct X had the advantage of learning from all the OpenGL mistakes with OpenGL [TS]

00:50:49   was older so it is a little bit more indirect tax Microsoft has evolved it [TS]

00:50:54   and it is a very capable avi but I think the metal front a lot of that I think [TS]

00:50:58   was coming from [TS]

00:50:59   game developers who were saying you've got a great GPU but you make it to use [TS]

00:51:03   OpenGL ES and here's a very stupid and like you said I was like well as you [TS]

00:51:07   don't make OpenGL we don't find the standard we work with the consortium but [TS]

00:51:10   I try to work with every three see it's a slow process as a game two of us like [TS]

00:51:14   both what about now shipping game now I wanna you know when you get closer to [TS]

00:51:18   the middle and they pulled the name right and you know it's like aim [TS]

00:51:22   dismantle its game developers wanted this game developer and what can apple [TS]

00:51:26   to apple can't make their own direct taxpayers that's not what we want we we [TS]

00:51:31   know exactly what we know what the GPU is capable of just give us more control [TS]

00:51:34   so it's one of the rare case for Apple and here's the new API that's lower [TS]

00:51:37   level and that it's because developers wanted it [TS]

00:51:39   what lower-level well and then I think the other way that it work and I'll get [TS]

00:51:43   up take is that they've clearly this is one of those things where they were [TS]

00:51:46   little open slightly with a short list but they had a pic they've they've got [TS]

00:51:50   like I think the four big game engines on board already and so it's the game [TS]

00:51:56   engines that provide the higher level API that most game developers spend most [TS]

00:52:00   of their time in and they just get to take advantage of this 10 X improvement [TS]

00:52:05   but I and i know and I know the guy even said like an order of magnitude [TS]

00:52:08   improvement but I don't think people maybe some people don't really think [TS]

00:52:11   that that could be true that like year over year there's a 10 X improvement in [TS]

00:52:15   graphics but it's really that true I mean its specific cases like it OpenGL [TS]

00:52:18   API and I want you like patch up your stuff and not to a bunch of different [TS]

00:52:22   calls but just get it together about your crap make one call because doing [TS]

00:52:25   the cause is expensive and this is saying well i get a text me up because i [TS]

00:52:28   dont have to do that anymore now do this careful batching and been trying to play [TS]

00:52:31   nice with OpenGL I can just send the calls and I mean I don't know the name [TS]

00:52:34   of the details of it but it's like it is a kind of a teller pic benchmark oh I [TS]

00:52:38   got 10 X in this particular operation but that particular abrasion happens all [TS]

00:52:41   the time and you can work around the away but it was annoying and it said [TS]

00:52:44   geez just let me talk to the GPU the way wants me to talk about how to deal with [TS]

00:52:47   the stuff alright whatever [TS]

00:52:52   let's take a break I want to end up the nerdy part of the show it was pretty [TS]

00:52:58   good but I have a surprise I have a surprise guest from our friends at Apple [TS]

00:53:05   and I know it was in the news last week [TS]

00:53:08   know better I have a gift for you Marco and it's here from Dr Dre ladies and [TS]

00:53:17   gentlemen dr dre I know that you love high-end headphones you can go ahead and [TS]

00:53:34   open that I'll hold this I think it would be fair for you to throw those on [TS]

00:53:38   real quick so we really so I had read called ray and you know it takes phone [TS]

00:53:46   calls he answered right on his Mac and I said ray his number now I need the best [TS]

00:53:51   headphones in oral does this guy is really fucking picky I mean I sent him [TS]

00:53:54   the URL of his head punk America is a wholly shit man neck I really knows his [TS]

00:53:58   shit I got just the phone forum Beats Studio special edition of the fighting [TS]

00:54:03   is actually I was in an Apple store easily and I tried these on and I think [TS]

00:54:06   you know actually have all the beats [TS]

00:54:08   these actually don't sound that bad like I was like you know i'm always here if I [TS]

00:54:13   had to buy a pair of Beats the studios are actually the least crappy sounding [TS]

00:54:18   ones that they make way to ruin the bed and their overcast team to totally yeah [TS]

00:54:25   top-secret my color is orange one of our sponsor for the episode who do I want to [TS]

00:54:32   thank and that is our good friends at market circle markets organized to great [TS]

00:54:37   apps you've probably heard of them both because they've sponsored my show before [TS]

00:54:40   they sponsored the site but they've Billings pro nafta time tracking and [TS]

00:54:45   invoicing out so anybody does freelance work we have to talk tractor times and [TS]

00:54:49   invoices if you have a lot to billings pressure not great AB they've got [TS]

00:54:54   clients for all your devices and when you make your invoice they've got [TS]

00:54:59   templates and themes and they come out looking great so it's not like some kind [TS]

00:55:02   of ugly thing what looks like a 1978 packs printed out your invoice really [TS]

00:55:08   really top-notch design great stuff and daylight daylight is a software for [TS]

00:55:14   organizing your business the way they describe it is its CRM with productivity [TS]

00:55:20   features first as opposed to the other way around so you can actually organized [TS]

00:55:23   the people who are involved in the people you know your company in a way [TS]

00:55:27   that looks like a real [TS]

00:55:29   Mac or iOS app not some piece of crap typical CRM stuff so markets are you go [TS]

00:55:36   to market circle dot com and check out their great stuff but they helped [TS]

00:55:38   sponsor the show and it's great and the other thing I want to do is I want to [TS]

00:55:42   mention a so age is the guy from market circle he's been a longtime fan of the [TS]

00:55:47   show and he a couple weeks ago I got a nice email from somebody at iTunes about [TS]

00:55:53   the explicit tag on this podcast and the fact that it wasn't there and and and it [TS]

00:55:59   is just you know we all of your shows very nice very personal and was and we [TS]

00:56:03   know you know there's not a lot of swearing on your show but it does come [TS]

00:56:06   up occasionally and we've started to get some complaints from parents and so I [TS]

00:56:12   started you know if you look at the feed there's like at least two episodes in [TS]

00:56:15   the last five for 34 that have the explicit at you because they're swearing [TS]

00:56:19   obviously the show's writing an app to have the explicit and that very day I [TS]

00:56:23   got any mail and it just said subject my son and the talk show and I thought god [TS]

00:56:29   here it is and I almost even read it I don't want to read this and I right [TS]

00:56:34   clicked and ready and instead it was AJ writing and he just said his 10 year old [TS]

00:56:37   son and he's a huge fan of the show as it wow ten years old my son does not [TS]

00:56:43   listen to me talk about any of this stuff that's amazing ten years old and [TS]

00:56:47   he'd loves the talk show and it's the only joie likes those sorry guys only [TS]

00:56:51   show he likes to listen to and so AJ said that he'll listen to the talk shows [TS]

00:56:56   he's been a long time was in our enemies i driving his son to school or sacrifice [TS]

00:57:00   some things I want to listen to talk show he's a listen to the episodes again [TS]

00:57:03   because he's already listened to Amazon wants to listen to him anyways some play [TS]

00:57:07   soccer and and a week or so ago he was playing any I got injured he got a [TS]

00:57:12   concussion and he's been laid up since can't play soccer can even listen got [TS]

00:57:17   headaches can even listen to podcasts two sons name is creating and I just [TS]

00:57:22   wanted to say something to him right here on the show cause whenever is [TS]

00:57:26   better from this concussion is gonna listen to it and I hope it's a nice [TS]

00:57:30   throw but let's everybody here in the show let's hear it for Caden the 10 year [TS]

00:57:34   old fan of the talk show [TS]

00:57:43   I am i Casey my next guest is my good friend mr. Scott Simpson [TS]

00:58:40   the talk-show Worldwide Developers something's up that I feel like the show [TS]

00:58:50   I realized when I was backstage waiting to go up the show is gonna be a mullet [TS]

00:58:55   businesses over its party hi my name is Scott Simpson I worked at Apple for [TS]

00:59:07   about eight years and then I left to do stand-up comedy about a year and a half [TS]

00:59:12   ago for the money [TS]

00:59:16   know that Marcos looking at my but right now it's right down and it's been going [TS]

00:59:28   well and if you don't know who I am that's fine I assume you're freakin or [TS]

00:59:34   some type of hill person that's fine though and I was talking to a friend of [TS]

00:59:39   mine like hey how can I get my name out there more as a comedian now that I'm [TS]

00:59:43   doing comedy and he was like well what's your theme song as i do what do you mean [TS]

00:59:50   things I did you get a theme song as I don't have a theme song if you have a [TS]

00:59:55   theme song that people remember it they know it's you sound like a great idea so [TS]

01:00:01   i sat down with my guitar in my office and I i not down a little theme song you [TS]

01:00:07   guys wanna hear it all right let's listen to my the theme song that I wrote [TS]

01:00:12   for myself [TS]

01:00:26   got got [TS]

01:00:48   dad [TS]

01:00:52   thank you thank you it was really fun to work with Lil Jon on then my friend [TS]

01:01:09   Jesse chart has a great idea about Lil Jon 2014 we have exactly the right [TS]

01:01:16   amount of a lil jon like Lil Jon's not food allergens like a spicy on too much [TS]

01:01:20   lower John my little joke I take that back to my people and they were like you [TS]

01:01:28   know what that's great but it's a little maybe a little edgy for your for your [TS]

01:01:33   crowd so I went back to the drawing board and I I tried I tried another day [TS]

01:01:40   another route so let's let's hear that next one [TS]

01:01:57   then they were like well its cues a little young like the little poppy and [TS]

01:02:02   maybe that's not your style try something a little a little more classic [TS]

01:02:07   a little older so I went back to the drawing board [TS]

01:02:20   I agree with you guys that want sex so there was too old so I tried like [TS]

01:02:27   another tack [TS]

01:02:38   and they're like the voice is good and I was I was into it as I i thought I [TS]

01:02:47   sounded really good on that track that same voice and like some setting and [TS]

01:02:51   GarageBand try that voice but try it like a little more rocky [TS]

01:03:11   cool dad [TS]

01:03:12   so I realize now that I made too many of these but we're still gonna do it and [TS]

01:03:25   then you know we realize like it does need to be a little more current a [TS]

01:03:28   little more a little more interesting and fun maybe bring it up a little bit [TS]

01:03:32   in terms of energy so let's give this one a listen [TS]

01:03:44   Scott makes land I agreed that the messaging on that was a little weird so [TS]

01:03:59   we we got to this guy [TS]

01:04:10   are you as bored of this joke as I am but you was a rhetorical question [TS]

01:04:28   clappers dammit I that's what I said on this one is it are you booing me mother [TS]

01:04:39   fucker year 11 [TS]

01:05:03   turndown forced got I feel like that the best way to live with that [TS]

01:05:08   thank you it is it is very nice to be in San Francisco I live here I know a lot [TS]

01:05:15   of you folks traveled here from elsewhere over the weekend I want to [TS]

01:05:19   tell you this brief story I went to Indiana to perform in a Comedy Festival [TS]

01:05:26   there and when I was there for my friend was like are you going to Bloomington [TS]

01:05:31   Limited is fun but watch out they like to drink that's also how people [TS]

01:05:41   introduced me what he likes to drink so I took it as a challenge I think I wanna [TS]

01:05:52   might have lost I'm not sure I got drunk the whole time it was great but a couple [TS]

01:05:56   other amazing things happened to me when I was in India is anybody hear from [TS]

01:06:00   Indiana clapping from Indiana alright that's a decent number here's what I [TS]

01:06:05   thought about Indiana before I went [TS]

01:06:07   as I was driving from Indianapolis and the airport was driving on the highway [TS]

01:06:15   was so beautiful as they drove a majestic waterbird like a heron or a [TS]

01:06:24   train a four foot wingspan came and flew next to my car for about a minute just [TS]

01:06:32   flew there next to my car and I swear to God at one point it looked over and he [TS]

01:06:38   was like I'm pretty sure I got Sept by a heron it was awesome is like it was like [TS]

01:06:45   that moment in Easy Rider when somebody does something to think whatever doesn't [TS]

01:06:50   matter but I was riding along with his goddamn hearin it was beautiful [TS]

01:06:56   now we have to use the explicit tags I'm sorry I'm sorry Katun Katun man I know [TS]

01:07:01   you're not gonna listen to this but you get so much puts based on that that [TS]

01:07:06   applause bro fucking kidding me seven Scott for that kind of thing [TS]

01:07:25   one moment it marked off and I saw it fly over a large warehouse and on the [TS]

01:07:47   side of the warehouse was a bed sheet and on the bed sheet was hand painted [TS]

01:07:52   the word fireworks as I left the fireworks store with a bag full of way [TS]

01:08:03   more shit than I can use in three days I thought to myself this is amazing this [TS]

01:08:08   is jus amazing human achievements you too amazing human perceptions in one day [TS]

01:08:13   I got to view I got to see the majesty of nature and I also got to experience [TS]

01:08:20   the majesty of using some shit to blow other shit up right it's great like I [TS]

01:08:26   feel like that is more to us as people whether you believe in God or not you [TS]

01:08:30   recognize that the world is a magical wonderful place and sometimes you want [TS]

01:08:38   to make it fucking explode [TS]

01:08:40   spent in my hotel room listening to Lionel Richie just sitting on a pile of [TS]

01:08:51   fireworks not dancing on the ceiling [TS]

01:08:55   hello I listened to hello on repeat in my underwear surrounded by bottle [TS]

01:09:02   rockets and Roman candles and I thought to myself god dammit heartland [TS]

01:09:08   there's some things you do write like I'ma California guy I'm as blue state as [TS]

01:09:12   they come but I loved being in Indiana has you know what if a dumb meeting bro [TS]

01:09:17   wants to ride around on his motorcycle with his helmet off that's kind of great [TS]

01:09:20   right like I feel like we can learn from I can learn certainly from that [TS]

01:09:26   perspective like certainly I believe that a woman has a right to a legal and [TS]

01:09:33   safe abortion thank you I think if you believe in it why don't we clap for that [TS]

01:09:38   if you believe it I believe in that [TS]

01:09:43   also want to clap for this next one I also believe that that same woman has a [TS]

01:09:48   legal unsafe right to enough fireworks to freak out all the cats in her [TS]

01:09:54   neighborhood writes like both of those things that's great what i was gonna say [TS]

01:10:00   based on that was you know i think thats same thing sort of applies a lot of [TS]

01:10:04   times in technology like there's a partisanship between two opposing sides [TS]

01:10:10   like like iOS vs Android or something like that and we really gained a lot [TS]

01:10:16   when we come together and figure stuff out that works on both sides I was gonna [TS]

01:10:20   say that that's boring as fuck I just want to talk about being in my underwear [TS]

01:10:24   in my hotel room [TS]

01:10:29   the other thing you got those sweet beats you sweet beats from now have you [TS]

01:10:52   guys ever heard of a place called Draper University now have had they been here [TS]

01:11:01   ever heard of Draper University a few a few people ok ok you might not like the [TS]

01:11:06   next half an hour but we talked about think you guys thank you so much for [TS]

01:11:28   booze and Jesse charged so I do a lot of stuff in San Mateo I spent a lot of time [TS]

01:11:39   at the public library and San Mateo because they have the most relaxed [TS]

01:11:44   sleeping policy and I've often walked by this place that is an old converted [TS]

01:11:51   hotel and I walked past the other day and in the window where two giant [TS]

01:11:57   photographs one of Steve Jobs and one of Elon Musk looking like he needs some Sun [TS]

01:12:05   like he always does like what is this place so I did some research online to [TS]

01:12:11   find out what Draper university is and i thought id share with you [TS]

01:12:14   mostly because I feel like as good people like I feel like we should combat [TS]

01:12:20   the douchiness in our midst and technology often encourages a lot of a [TS]

01:12:28   lot of that behavior it's rampant out and about yeah oh yeah exactly and so [TS]

01:12:33   that's where that's why this is so I looked it up online Draper University [TS]

01:12:38   and I i got this I got this information [TS]

01:12:41   located in Silicon Valley Draper University of Heroes the first sign like [TS]

01:12:51   it [TS]

01:12:51   University of heroes and then I remembered like a bunch of like young [TS]

01:12:56   people walking around town wearing this t-shirt that just says hero on it did [TS]

01:13:01   you did you save a cat from a burning building you don't look like it and I [TS]

01:13:05   realize that their attendees of Draper University University of Heroes is the [TS]

01:13:09   brainchild of free-spirited venture capitalists Tim Draper aka the risk [TS]

01:13:15   master i think is a good stand-in for a Silicon Valley produce like like like [TS]

01:13:25   the last generation like you know like he's got like a fun tie and he hates all [TS]

01:13:30   taxes [TS]

01:13:36   I thought when you said it I never heard it I thought it was maybe like Don [TS]

01:13:42   Draper University and I feel like anybody who enroll thinking along the [TS]

01:13:48   lines of thinking is probably going to be very disappointed when the classes [TS]

01:13:51   classes going to start like that that's what we do a shot and then we learn how [TS]

01:13:58   to harass you unlearn all those classes he took only two very different [TS]

01:14:05   University it is so what they say on the website [TS]

01:14:08   top of the line websites not a terrible [TS]

01:14:13   an unconventional world-class residential an online school for the [TS]

01:14:16   brightest young entrepreneurs from around the world [TS]

01:14:20   our core curriculum our core curriculum includes some of the following topics [TS]

01:14:24   media training negotiations various topics in finance gloss over the stuff [TS]

01:14:33   that's actually a school subjects and then a dive into other things like lean [TS]

01:14:41   startups creativity crash course design thinking innovation and some other [TS]

01:14:50   terrible stuff and so I was like what what is it so I looked for their I [TS]

01:14:55   watched a video is a great video online about Draper University instead of desks [TS]

01:15:00   students sit in colorful bean bag chairs and the video is great because like [TS]

01:15:07   obviously had this idea is like this would be great [TS]

01:15:10   will be unconventional as fuck will just sit and bean bag chairs and bandy about [TS]

01:15:14   great ideas for how to change the world and you see the kids in the bean bag [TS]

01:15:18   chairs and they're like sliding down did you have a bean bag chair when you're [TS]

01:15:24   grown up now I wanted one that I was not allowed to have one because I was told [TS]

01:15:29   before we ever even tried it that it would break and make a ginormous mess [TS]

01:15:34   you are good parents like the bean bag chairs the great life like the Hungry [TS]

01:15:40   Hungry Hippos of chairs like it seems like the best thing in the world and [TS]

01:15:44   then you get it and somebody as well as a marble in your the emergency room [TS]

01:15:48   every common area in hallway is covered in white board paint for brainstorming [TS]

01:15:54   and there's a shot of the class schedule at one point one of the classes is [TS]

01:16:00   called future ology making up words and then there's a there's a quote from an [TS]

01:16:11   article about the University earlier that day I watched Draper change the [TS]

01:16:16   agenda line for a planned activity a gathering of Draper you students and his [TS]

01:16:21   daughter's college friends he changed it from mixer with sorority 20 a thon the [TS]

01:16:32   private school is not accredited and never will be Draper says that's above [TS]

01:16:42   we don't want to be put in 20 the actual University box so here's my favorite [TS]

01:16:53   part and then have a question for you are you guys at the end of the session [TS]

01:16:58   each student doesn't receive a dar es or again an actual degree every student [TS]

01:17:06   receives a CA which stands for can you guess what CA stands for creative [TS]

01:17:15   achievement that's a terrible guest John [TS]

01:17:18   actually find yes stands for change agents which sounds like what a bullet [TS]

01:17:27   turns into when its human catchable we we could have given John six months and [TS]

01:17:32   he never would have thought of that because it's such bullshit that's right [TS]

01:17:35   that's right you just proved yourself to be bullshit alright so here's my [TS]

01:17:43   favorite part in lieu of diplomas jury peruse students receive masks and [TS]

01:17:51   superhero capes printed [TS]

01:17:57   said no [TS]

01:17:59   they receive masks and capes printed with their superhero nicknames gets [TS]

01:18:07   better and are instructed to jump on each of a series of three small [TS]

01:18:13   trampolines placed in a line in front of them while band bouncing from [TS]

01:18:18   trampolines trampoline they're told to shout up up and away then they assemble [TS]

01:18:27   for a group photo [TS]

01:18:28   what about it so why why are we doing this show instead of doing a show where [TS]

01:18:34   all of us go there and videotape that would be great I also thought maybe we [TS]

01:18:37   could do a Kickstarter we all send John to it again it's called University it's [TS]

01:18:49   an eight week course of course they caused $10,000 which frankly is not that [TS]

01:18:55   crazy from you get breakfast [TS]

01:18:58   I thought maybe we could we could because actually the application [TS]

01:19:05   deadline is true the application deadline for this summer [TS]

01:19:08   order I think they call it even though that's a lie is tomorrow on the [TS]

01:19:13   application by the application screen it's an online application there's one [TS]

01:19:18   box it just says tell us a story which I love but then I realized that you have [TS]

01:19:26   to be 18 to 26 to go there and I don't think like we could doctor know the fuck [TS]

01:19:35   out of you with some makeup but I don't think there'd be enough to to make you [TS]

01:19:40   look to make you look 26 yeah but then it got me thinking to look Draper you [TS]

01:19:47   let's just work to combat that elements of bullshit text speech and [TS]

01:19:54   entrepreneurial mumbo jumbo mumbojumbo I just said but I thought maybe well [TS]

01:20:04   here's my dream my dream is this not Draper you my dream is grouper year [TS]

01:20:11   Gruber University I don't know not have heroes but I don't know what they look [TS]

01:20:21   like I thought maybe you guys could help me out with them I think like madmen [TS]

01:20:25   University sure it's still called Draper University [TS]

01:20:30   so there's a lot of drinking there's no suits tho morning classes now no morning [TS]

01:20:40   classes have class you'll have class at two in the morning morning that's a good [TS]

01:20:50   question I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge I feel like it's like [TS]

01:20:55   you guys maybe but better ideas than me it was the curriculum anything outside [TS]

01:20:59   of mythology is that pretty much the extent of it all other interests [TS]

01:21:08   fund very good that's right [TS]

01:21:14   went to school things you were at school newspaper you did all that students at [TS]

01:21:19   the University universities gotta take you through that are like once he was a [TS]

01:21:25   good student didn't belong to the newspaper and then you got a transition [TS]

01:21:29   into the Don Draper oh yeah that's genius the groomer memorial rotunda that [TS]

01:21:36   tells the story of your life from a young shitty kid middle aged man I i've [TS]

01:21:48   been haunted my entire life by dreams and it's very common everybody else but [TS]

01:21:53   dreams of school on preparedness exist you know in the dream it's exam day or [TS]

01:21:59   there's a big homework assignment and it's got a blew it off but why would I [TS]

01:22:02   blow it off until now it to do now [TS]

01:22:05   yet and you know and it's a very unpleasant dream and I feel stressed out [TS]

01:22:09   because when I was young I wanted to get good grades of cedras' it but I've [TS]

01:22:12   started like in the last few years it's really mean the dream now and I don't [TS]

01:22:18   care [TS]

01:22:22   literally had a dream that I grew up my parents house is across the street from [TS]

01:22:26   the elementary school I wanted literally across the street I had a dream that my [TS]

01:22:30   high school's social studies teacher whose great great guy mr Joyce any toxic [TS]

01:22:36   civics and stuff and and shifted high schoolers like a when cops come to your [TS]

01:22:40   door to let me and we use that like high school parties to take no you cannot [TS]

01:22:46   come in and nobody else knew that he was a great teacher and in my dream he's [TS]

01:22:54   teaching in elementary school but it's in high school and he's just like and [TS]

01:23:00   I'm there and its people are noisy and I'm annoyed [TS]

01:23:04   mr Joyce I could use a fuckin drink and I said idk when my parents house across [TS]

01:23:08   the street and he goes he'll be great and and I said what you wanna make it [TS]

01:23:14   look like water ice cream I had and the dream I thought I was like no it's not [TS]

01:23:26   my dreams of being in school now it's just me and my gal get a drink and i won [TS]

01:23:30   across her in a funny thing is I got my good gin and tonic and he told me in a [TS]

01:23:34   dream to me to put extra [TS]

01:23:36   the teacher is my parents are gonna have jenin house in my dream world they do I [TS]

01:23:44   think I would go visit them a lot more quickly quick aside somebody in the [TS]

01:23:49   front some of your friend have an iPhone that they would be willing to use would [TS]

01:23:53   you be willing to use it would you keep track of the grouper university core [TS]

01:23:58   curriculum for us but see 99 attempt at 10 a.m. is blank [TS]

01:24:05   10 to 2 p.m. is blank starting to 23 is Yankees [TS]

01:24:22   32301 is Yankees 301 or 302 is that lady gets on matriculated grading evaluation [TS]

01:24:39   of the students in jeopardy University you know what you said about you know [TS]

01:24:45   used to care a lot about grades until you got smarter and realized you know so [TS]

01:24:49   just forgive me this is this is this is a bit of a rest but probably not how [TS]

01:24:54   many of you out there were a student's ok how many of you out there were see [TS]

01:25:01   students this these students always have a way more fun reaction to them how many [TS]

01:25:08   I would guess that on average and this is totally out of my ass on average see [TS]

01:25:15   students probably do better in reality that he students because the seasons of [TS]

01:25:19   themselves to the seasons were the ones who figured out that you don't have to [TS]

01:25:27   do about eighty percent of what they assign you in school right so I think [TS]

01:25:32   part of Draper university would just be you know you don't tell anybody this for [TS]

01:25:37   a while and then like you know senior year whatever last week of it you take [TS]

01:25:42   any everyone with a GPA above 3.0 and you get stale sorry that's brilliant [TS]

01:25:46   million you wasted way too much time studying exactly thats you that [TS]

01:25:52   everything we asked why didn't you question that you know that there I [TS]

01:25:57   remember when he was the president and and you know famously was not the [TS]

01:26:03   sharpest pencil in the box and didn't have a difficult school record there was [TS]

01:26:08   actually news stories about that there is a correlation to achieving c-level [TS]

01:26:15   positions in major Fortune 500 corporations and having extraordinarily [TS]

01:26:21   mediocre scholastic records that [TS]

01:26:25   there's even a phrase raise the gentleman see that you know that that as [TS]

01:26:30   long as you put up a modicum of effort and you know you're not going to never [TS]

01:26:35   show up for class you're going to show up and you're going to take the exam and [TS]

01:26:38   feel terribly well at least give you a sea and that is the people who take [TS]

01:26:42   advantage of that ruling might well wait a second [TS]

01:26:45   the worst I can do is to see I can do nothing yeah i i'd never did homework I [TS]

01:26:51   literally did 0 homework for my entire academic career and I always almost [TS]

01:26:56   failed some classes here in there and got A's in the easy classes here and [TS]

01:27:00   there and I came out ok I graduated so I think we can I think we can probably [TS]

01:27:06   guess the dead that description does not apply to john gets like doing homework [TS]

01:27:12   at all I just did enough to get A's but it at all [TS]

01:27:21   did not want to do homework at all I thought it was an affront that I should [TS]

01:27:25   ever have and now my son comes home and thinks it is like the worst injustice in [TS]

01:27:30   the world that when he comes home from school to do but you're nobody would [TS]

01:27:36   ever accuse you of being a Type A personality is I've gotta be [TS]

01:27:39   valedictorian and salutatorian I'm gonna find a loophole where the valedictorian [TS]

01:27:44   you know weird class and seventh-grade narrow four-point osha for 3.99 that's [TS]

01:27:52   not you my report card every year for my whole life not working up the potential [TS]

01:27:57   of all saved and everything but I don't think anybody's surprised by this I [TS]

01:28:05   think comes very clear and and and your baseline of the minimum work to get an A [TS]

01:28:10   and you probably did more work to figure out what the minimum mortgage to get a [TS]

01:28:14   than the actual work that you did you probably knew exactly like subterfuge [TS]

01:28:20   how many notes home can I hide my parents before our final on a CPAN [TS]

01:28:25   module somewhere to calculate grades are you ever surprised by the report card as [TS]

01:28:30   you know your great great I was with the nerds like valedictorian is my best [TS]

01:28:35   friend with the nerds [TS]

01:28:37   where you look where you are sir [TS]

01:28:46   I'm the one who's gonna get beat out for sure you can pass I think Casey Casey to [TS]

01:28:54   me you're a mystery man where did you fall on this kind of high school [TS]

01:28:58   students when I was in grade school when I was in middle school [TS]

01:29:01   total like I will do every bit of homework I'll ask for extra credit total [TS]

01:29:06   freaking nerd and then around then around high school I realized I just [TS]

01:29:11   don't fucking care I was a terror I was an OK high school student in marketing I [TS]

01:29:18   i think could probably get into a pretty serious pissing match over who was the [TS]

01:29:21   worse student in college but yet so then I just realized it's enough to get by [TS]

01:29:28   and all that matters in the end of that I have a degree not a word was change [TS]

01:29:34   agent certificate of authenticity whatever it was and that's all I need [TS]

01:29:38   good college too much like Casey at a certain point I realized that that that [TS]

01:29:47   stuff was an important and I stopped being as as rule following as I was for [TS]

01:29:53   me that moment came when I was 37 [TS]

01:29:57   yeah [TS]

01:29:57   yeah [TS]

01:30:00   this is stupid I mean it's stupid it's different but hey you know for me it was [TS]

01:30:06   it was the wrong thing and I finally lake was like ok I can I can jump out of [TS]

01:30:10   this this path that I thought I had to be on my I was stressed throughout my [TS]

01:30:16   college career because I I went to Drexel on Drexel stress as a slogan much [TS]

01:30:24   I Draper UT Drexel has an official slogan it's we're right next to pen [TS]

01:30:28   their slogan I i forget it we're told the story of this can be too long but [TS]

01:30:36   that long story short is why I was ok student member I care about grades but I [TS]

01:30:41   was an exceptionally talented test taker I i truly gifted at taking things like [TS]

01:30:46   the s80 because it was like being in the matrix where I could see why they r [TS]

01:30:51   asking the question I can't even answer but I can see clearly they mean see I [TS]

01:30:54   don't understand what these words mean but i i i i cant understand ESET at a [TS]

01:30:59   medal level and scored very very high this is in the early nineties before [TS]

01:31:03   they scored them and let people get high grades but in like 10th grade I took the [TS]

01:31:09   s80 as a test like this isn't for real for real next year and when you take the [TS]

01:31:16   S et le she did back then you say what schools you want it sent to for free and [TS]

01:31:21   I did hadn't done any research on where to go and I think basketball schools [TS]

01:31:24   that I like I picked North Carolina villanova [TS]

01:31:27   see recuse yeah I think all the Big East teams in and everybody but Duke in the [TS]

01:31:33   ACC and i no intention of going into these schools and and there is still [TS]

01:31:38   open slots and my friend who's with me is just window dressing was put down [TS]

01:31:42   their cool and I got a really high score 14 20 and then they go to next year and [TS]

01:31:49   I gotta 1460 and by that time though I knew I wanted to go and I had this list [TS]

01:31:54   of schools and it was a lot more practical and drexel burnham listen bob [TS]

01:31:58   and I thought I was going to Penn State and one day the phone rings and it's [TS]

01:32:01   somebody is I got somebody from Drexel University and want to speak to John [TS]

01:32:05   Gruber and I said yeah that's me and he said yes we'd like you to come to Drexel [TS]

01:32:08   on a full-tuition scholarship and I said well what we have to do and I'd already [TS]

01:32:14   been filling out all these essays for scholarships to other schools he was [TS]

01:32:17   like can you play badminton they the answer was you you will you need to [TS]

01:32:23   apply and I was like alright already I was like I was then then what [TS]

01:32:32   and and that's it and there we are where we have a policy where if you scored a [TS]

01:32:39   1400 or higher on Oct you can come to Drexel for free on set [TS]

01:32:47   it's a more efficient way to say it and and and I was like what that demon thats [TS]

01:32:53   all I have to do is apply and then I go for free and they're like what is [TS]

01:32:57   tuition accident do any research in early 1991 so it's a means by $50,000 a [TS]

01:33:03   year now they're like it sixteen thousand dollars a year and as I can I'm [TS]

01:33:06   penny of it and they're like yeah and I was like oh and I got the phone and my [TS]

01:33:10   dad was like who is that and I was like I don't know if drexel I guess I'm going [TS]

01:33:13   there was like I had that I don't know I would complicate you know where the [TS]

01:33:19   money for colleges gets great damage caused this complicated thing where we [TS]

01:33:23   will take out loans and all this stuff and in the only catch was ahead to keep [TS]

01:33:28   a 3.0 grade-point average for my whole academic career feel it was very very [TS]

01:33:34   stressful my first two years but then I start a new other people who had the [TS]

01:33:39   scholarship and the backstory of it is that drexel is really well maybe the [TS]

01:33:43   better now but when I was there they were really not a good school and had [TS]

01:33:46   really low average safety scores they were like a safety school and so their [TS]

01:33:51   idea for raising the average as a team score was will let people who score 1300 [TS]

01:33:56   or higher go for half tuition and 1,400 you go for free and so I ended up like [TS]

01:34:02   i'd like six room aids in a big apartment on my end I half of this year [TS]

01:34:06   there for free because we scored fourteen hundred and couldn't go to a [TS]

01:34:10   good school cuz you can pay for it but then I figured out halfway through my my [TS]

01:34:14   college career that there was a grace period on the GPA thing they don't just [TS]

01:34:20   like you you fall to a 2.9 and they're like oh sorry if you go you you get like [TS]

01:34:25   I don't you call it just just to note that daily curriculum 324 grace period I [TS]

01:34:37   had a good time then finished with a three-point like 00000 to GPA it was [TS]

01:34:45   incredibly close but I never did dip down and I never got the letter I think [TS]

01:34:50   about this a lot especially having moved from the east coast to the west coast so [TS]

01:34:53   it was on the East Coast also was the early nineties let you go to college [TS]

01:34:58   it's just what you do obviously but then coming to the west coast and seeing all [TS]

01:35:03   these people achieve amazing things without ever having gone to college and [TS]

01:35:08   also watching college tuitions go from super expensive to what Kate in car for [TS]

01:35:17   college tuition at compiling a really really nice car you can buy a nice car [TS]

01:35:21   like the whole you might like four cores for the forty years so you could you buy [TS]

01:35:31   for tests as for the classic goes to college costs as the market you'll find [TS]

01:35:37   out how many people here went to college [TS]

01:35:42   well we can't see said [TS]

01:35:45   how many people graduated from college and how many people never went to [TS]

01:35:53   college i love u guys in my view phone number there the people who got smart at [TS]

01:35:59   an earlier age right so do you believe that college is necessary so for folks [TS]

01:36:04   like this for four you know going in the world of like being a developer [TS]

01:36:09   something like that do you need to go to college still I don't know I think you [TS]

01:36:13   need to go to college if you think you do so that you can learn that you don't [TS]

01:36:17   that's really profound advice but I totally can't believe it with those [TS]

01:36:26   beats around your neck this lends me credibility among the youths right as I [TS]

01:36:31   bought them though you did you say you don't get anything else whether to even [TS]

01:36:45   talk about school and we will wrap up soon but schools great let school school [TS]

01:36:52   is good for the lab stuff like it's good to learn how to drink in college to [TS]

01:36:58   learn how to live by yourself for the first time that's nice [TS]

01:37:02   adulthood element to it is it worth $60,000 a year no but while you know [TS]

01:37:09   open kimono life story pointed out on the table I went to college ID I did not [TS]

01:37:14   drink I started to drink slightly while I was in college but [TS]

01:37:20   didn't really start drinking until my mid twenties I actually had a fairly [TS]

01:37:26   similar experience I vividly remember it was one day over the summer before I'm [TS]

01:37:30   about to go to college and college at Virginia Tech and and my dad sits me [TS]

01:37:34   down my dad just just to note nobody applauded for Virginia it's alright on [TS]

01:37:40   the other guys nobody gets me down and he put something in front of a camera [TS]

01:37:45   wise and he says you need to drink this ok you're gonna drink more than 11 what [TS]

01:37:53   is it and I took a little safe and God knows what it was and I probably showed [TS]

01:37:56   up lol I was 18 because I never really had boost before and did that my dad [TS]

01:38:01   basically SAT me down and said you're getting fuckin hammered tonight so this [TS]

01:38:05   way when you go to school you know what this feels like and you will be ok [TS]

01:38:10   hayseed ranked 11 melon teenies that it was easy on the team needs and why it [TS]

01:38:17   was given million TVs showed up they also make you smoke a pack of cigarettes [TS]

01:38:22   no no no that is not it out but now that that that was my first experience and [TS]

01:38:27   then I know drank a little in college in and now now supposedly drunk me is [TS]

01:38:32   somewhere in the audience so I'm told so therefore drunk AC out now on iTunes [TS]

01:38:36   mystery mystery tweeter used to be a drunk driver account but then the guy [TS]

01:38:43   stopped updating it that's erroneous it took him four went out for John Gruber [TS]

01:38:52   is tried to guess which tweets of mine I tweeted while intoxicated and it was [TS]

01:39:05   because he was pretty good but not that good it was like you know what it is [TS]

01:39:09   pretty late but I'm actually stone cold sober tonight and I actually just [TS]

01:39:12   tweeted you you never really were drinkers are now you got it out of high [TS]

01:39:22   school teens meet the guy with a receding hairline get beer at the gas [TS]

01:39:30   station and we would all drink senior Marcos high school saying there is a [TS]

01:39:40   huge need those people [TS]

01:39:42   bold move for the guy holding Marcos microbe pretty good one that I wasn't [TS]

01:39:50   gonna have Casey come out of your for Casey with the same I'm glad of earn my [TS]

01:39:58   keep after all I did not drink a link in high school I had friends who didn't get [TS]

01:40:04   a parties and I was the official just in case the cops show up this is the guy [TS]

01:40:10   paid attention to mr Joyce has class and knows how to deal with it [TS]

01:40:13   guy yeah right down mister troika dream for 25 that's a class that's a that's a [TS]

01:40:20   yes I'm talking about your dreams that you had about your high school teacher [TS]

01:40:25   we explore what drunk john was like like I got drunk [TS]

01:40:31   I shouldn't be surprised by this but that's terrible i guy just I envision [TS]

01:40:37   like this really chipper happy like touchy-feely job hey man give me a hug [TS]

01:40:42   it's all in your head now that's my dream that's my dream is meeting John [TS]

01:40:48   John what was the high school drinking situation light where you went what is [TS]

01:40:51   it like it go out in the woods type of situation with parents weren't home [TS]

01:40:56   totally right what is wrong with those parents I mean now that we're adults and [TS]

01:41:03   we're the parents the idea that I would leave maybe see like if you were my son [TS]

01:41:09   that I know my house till you know when you've got the kid was gonna have a [TS]

01:41:14   party when the parents better example in Paris but they were wrong because it's [TS]

01:41:18   not like I made the party it's likely parents are home ok everyone go there I [TS]

01:41:22   did not think that we would relate on anything my mother was she she she she [TS]

01:41:30   met a man and she lived in Minnesota and so she would travel to visit him and she [TS]

01:41:36   like well the house is yours take care of it and I was very similar like she [TS]

01:41:40   just trusted me what a bad idea it was it was part it was a party every time [TS]

01:41:48   she left it was crazy it was fun I pretty sure because of those parties I [TS]

01:41:54   was voted most well-rounded in high school but that's the only thing that I [TS]

01:41:59   didn't do sports so I think that was what it was for me so there's actually [TS]

01:42:04   so I I was left alone all summer for most high school summers as it goes they [TS]

01:42:10   forgot about ya and I am actually such a nerd and I didn't do anything bad I'm [TS]

01:42:16   actually more of a nerd than John Siracusa on something nicer friends i [TS]

01:42:20   mean out of people or bad influence on my own I was is roped into it [TS]

01:42:24   area it's their phone you weren't left home for the whole summer yeah my mom is [TS]

01:42:29   a teacher she would go upstate New York for the summer and I would go when I was [TS]

01:42:34   younger than when I get older [TS]

01:42:36   I don't wanna go there I wanted to stay with my friends in high school so yeah I [TS]

01:42:39   was like you know 1718 alone all summer is also just at home like drinking soda [TS]

01:42:44   playing video games pretty much yeah I was doing all this crap programming and [TS]

01:42:50   although that's that's why that's how I got started programming and instead of [TS]

01:42:53   being having a social life just like probably many of you out there I was I [TS]

01:42:59   was doing that at that point you were in college and then you went to the actual [TS]

01:43:04   knowledge to not really do anything productive so that was your college well [TS]

01:43:09   yeah you college I I just found new ways to be a nerd you know just just more [TS]

01:43:14   more I drank someone in college you know I have a very a very vivid memory for my [TS]

01:43:20   freshman year of college dorm and my roommate was a guy went to high school [TS]

01:43:26   with you is actually the guy who told me back in 10th grade to put Drexel and we [TS]

01:43:33   you know when and I didn't take a random roommate at that seemed like a sucker [TS]

01:43:36   move so as I got what we should be roommates even when we were best friends [TS]

01:43:39   but I knew I could live with the guy he pledged fraternity a lot of the guys on [TS]

01:43:43   my floor pledged fraternities and they went to these fraternity parties and I [TS]

01:43:47   remember very specifically what the game was I stayed to play Leisure Suit Larry [TS]

01:43:52   a big boobs right and I felt like I was being pretty bad out there are both in [TS]

01:44:02   the game [TS]

01:44:02   4255 26 where we 56 Leisure Suit Larry a big boobs again later on time I don't [TS]

01:44:17   know if you guys have anything else and myself are right where we wrap it up I [TS]

01:44:22   would like to do some thanks a lot of people [TS]

01:44:26   couple people [TS]

01:44:28   that I would like to thank you Megan here and mezzanine and all staff and [TS]

01:44:33   mezzanine what a great places is we did the show here last year I hope we do it [TS]

01:44:40   again next year but what a great place it's just a great facility but the staff [TS]

01:44:44   in the bar everything great so thanks to making everybody here at mezzanine Jesse [TS]

01:44:50   char she helped reduce the show she's here in San Francisco she runs a place [TS]

01:44:58   she runs the app design development job Pacific Pacific helm dot com they do [TS]

01:45:05   great work there [TS]

01:45:06   do such good work is probably hard to get in on it but if you need to end [TS]

01:45:09   check out need somebody to help you design or develop an app check out [TS]

01:45:13   pacific home great stuff I wanna give a special thank you to someone who should [TS]

01:45:19   I think couple episodes ago but Caleb Sexton Caleb section is here helping [TS]

01:45:24   with this with the audio make sure everything sounds good but he was he is [TS]

01:45:28   at No radio and I should have thanked him couple episodes when I did the show [TS]

01:45:35   in my hero and the last show that I did while the show is unreal like a love has [TS]

01:45:40   been helping me with the talk show ever since I've taken it so low and [TS]

01:45:43   everything good about the audio quality and the editing and finding funny little [TS]

01:45:50   things to stick into the audio for two years [TS]

01:45:53   99.97% of that is from Caleb section and I thank them two weeks ago but let me [TS]

01:46:00   thank him tonight when he's here let's give it up for Caleb sex to my friend I [TS]

01:46:08   want to thank our sponsors Microsoft for sponsoring this event Microsoft at [TS]

01:46:12   checkout has your mobile services if you haven't looked at them they're great [TS]

01:46:15   market circle with a great app stay late and billings pro and probably the [TS]

01:46:23   biggest plus here but our our good friends at which sponsored the bar I [TS]

01:46:31   forget [TS]

01:46:32   the email company that cool guys who make it easy to do an email to a lot of [TS]

01:46:37   people don't get it [TS]

01:46:38   oh yeah Belgium now let's hear from you also shouldn't video tonight I don't [TS]

01:46:52   know when it's gonna come out we're going to hopefully releases some point [TS]

01:46:55   but couple of guys here from there put together a documentary called app the [TS]

01:47:02   human story and it's a documentary about the rise of apps as a good thing that we [TS]

01:47:08   care about and I even probably just like a word like the fact that everybody like [TS]

01:47:12   in the developed world knows what happens now they have a website app [TS]

01:47:16   documentary dot com [TS]

01:47:19   gonna do a Kickstarter soon as not open yet but it's a really cool idea for a [TS]

01:47:23   documentary I think it's really sort of story of the decade and tack they're [TS]

01:47:28   here shooting video 22 so we have an archive of the show so let's hear it for [TS]

01:47:33   them [TS]

01:47:34   stay tuned a daring fireball out to eat when I have their Kickstarter [TS]

01:47:38   and last but not least you for gentlemen Marco Arment Casey lists John Siracusa [TS]

01:47:44   and Scott Simpson thank you [TS]

01:47:47   and last but not least thanks to all of you for coming [TS]

01:47:53   blows my mind that so many people come to see us be appearing be dummies [TS]

01:47:57   leopard John's cool purple shirt has branched out give it to him what a [TS]

01:48:04   delightful man John Gruber but for john is the best right [TS]

01:48:10   Provost I think that the end of the show will call that will save the show's over [TS]

01:48:20   where to post a plan I think we're technically supposed to be outta here by [TS]

01:48:24   nine its ten have another I don't know if they close the bar I don't know but [TS]

01:48:29   we don't have to rush hour let's calm and orderly if you want to chill if you [TS]

01:48:35   want to check another drink have another drink it's all on MailChimp but thank [TS]

01:48:39   you for coming but we gotta get out of here ten fifteen minute thanks [TS]