0:00:00hello welcome to the top shelf from before we get started I want to thank
0:00:13male champ male champion sponsoring this open bar so rate raise a glass to
0:00:23MailChimp your everybody is drinking on their dime great emailed you never heard
0:00:27of the new great email newsletters so go get another drink and later tonight gogo
0:00:32set up a drunk newsletter with melting I wanna think Microsoft are our flagship
0:00:41event sponsor that got the banners here at the second year in a row that they've
0:00:45sponsor this event as your mobile services to you truly great stuff a year
0:00:51ago I think maybe was a little bit weirder that Microsoft and their online
0:00:55stuff was sponsoring the show at this conference and I think this year it's a
0:01:00little bit less weird I know when you guys know that with this stuff we're
0:01:05doing a cuban Vesper were using them were we build our entire back end on
0:01:09their stuff
0:01:10certainly when do that just because they wanted to show I'm happy that they're
0:01:14sponsoring the show because I really like their stuff really amazing stuff so
0:01:18if you're building anything with an online component I really really
0:01:22encourage you to look at what they have to offer
0:01:24it's really great even if you're like us and only developed for iOS and Mac OS
0:01:30even if you're really really firmly in the Apple developer ecosystem they have
0:01:37great options and so check them out of every check out as your mobile services
0:01:45where they we gotta get that up by the end of the night so maybe I'll go
0:01:50backstage and let you guys investigate your order online storage needs not
0:01:56gonna get started so the first part of the show i three very special guests
0:02:03have the guys from ATP Marco Arment John Siracusa and Casey less
0:02:17so we've got each gun Mikes nice soft leather they would put Casey in the
0:02:31middle like I was at the age of just just just sit there and look pretty for
0:02:37a while even even when they build themselves it's I think it's Marco
0:02:42Arment Casey listen john served by surname
0:02:47it flows really nicely that way you know the best for last
0:02:52the site and it kind of cheated so big I do we all agree this was a big WWDC a
0:03:02big game right everybody agrees
0:03:05yeah I was sitting in the press section two or three seats away from John and I
0:03:12took a picture to come up is it so dark in the area you know with the audience's
0:03:17stages but I got a picture of him looking happy amazing we were so
0:03:24disappointed because generally for the last few years it's been the three of us
0:03:28in the keynote and we were genuinely disappointed that we couldn't see his
0:03:33like victory dance and is seen as United I'm assuming that there was some sort of
0:03:37complete spaz attack that happened and we didn't experience I don't have much
0:03:42recollection of them had already tweeted earlier in the thing is this real life
0:03:47when he called Dr Dre that's like really go up to the reality is like wild
0:03:56exuberance from John is just like a big smile I should keep their pictures
0:04:03so they announced you know it so I forget the exact way they bring to but
0:04:07it was we've got to just SDK and it is the awkward thing where Tim Cook had to
0:04:11explain you know everybody hurts never heard of an SDK software development kit
0:04:15and then there's this weird thing there are words like come on come on really
0:04:20good explained with SDK is a developer conference I know that this is being
0:04:24simulcast to a hundred million people and there's price in these people don't
0:04:28really get it but come on but then you know it was real proud to announce today
0:04:34we're introducing a brand new programming language and I look over at
0:04:39John and it was still no reaction and then it was like I think his initial
0:04:44thought was there's gotta be a catch
0:04:46remember when he said that I remember is the audio earnings swift logo and i was
0:04:54just a very little recollection of just started I was happy I was just so happy
0:04:58that this is really happening and like everyone else is it like to write the
0:05:06green shirt like the smile just very slowly to spreads in I can only imagine
0:05:12I'm very jealous you got to witness first-hand
0:05:15it was the highlight of the keynote for me was seeing his reaction is there
0:05:21really wasn't I feel like then they they kind of immediately kind of framed it
0:05:25that way where it was sort of a if you've been following this platform long
0:05:30enough to hear new programming language and its gonna be another bridge is
0:05:35new programming language like new to you it's going to be Python are you going to
0:05:39elevate the Ruby you know or is it the real deal is it really a new Apple
0:05:45programming language custom-built for our brand marks and as a holy shit yes
0:05:50it is
0:05:50different different syntax not Objective C 4.0 you know all the things that they
0:05:56could have done it is the whole 2006 the whole debate amongst all this is why
0:06:00they need a new language they just look at how they've improved objective see
0:06:04nobody thought they were never settle the debate you know it's it's
0:06:09unequivocal looks on like Objective C in anyway so how much of you guys looked at
0:06:16swift so far only a little bit and I didn't go to did you know you went to
0:06:21the introduction to stress that if we had all just had time to read that big I
0:06:24books or PDF know a lot about it but we haven't but I bet if you read that you
0:06:28know more than you do from going to that section III pope
0:06:33I poked through a poster that bug little bits and pieces to see things that I
0:06:37thought were interesting and we were talking the other night about how
0:06:41closures are gonna be handled and whether or not you need to do memory
0:06:44stop and it turns out yeah you need to do that but I mean really I'm just
0:06:47thrilled that it's not parole because dealing with dealing with its own also
0:06:52dealing with the smugness
0:06:55just being there to enlist rubias Rubio Rubio visits my eye I want you guys
0:07:06shine but I listened ATP every week I don't need another episode is that the
0:07:15whole you complain about perot and no more prone last time we say that we have
0:07:21months of material for our show when is the last time I don't know if I did I'd
0:07:28like usual I've done the research when is the last time Apple introduced its
0:07:32own programming language off the top of my head I wanna say Apple script Dylan
0:07:38maybe ya dil in but Dylan never did it ship could you ever write an actual
0:07:43thing in the real world using it I don't know maybe not right
0:07:46discourse composer count for anything I don't think it's a program and I think
0:07:52Apple script was the last hyper talk no Apple script came after hyper talk talk
0:07:58with first I'm almost sure somebody someone in the chat room again right
0:08:06no I think I think about the card was like 1989 or so and Apple script came
0:08:12out and somewhere in a system seven years so it was i think im 71 right and
0:08:19i think that big picture . getting down to the nitty-gritty of the details of
0:08:24what Swift is actually like as a programming language zoom out and just
0:08:28kind of look at it and get the basics I really do think that it is a very
0:08:31happily programming language or at least representative of today's Apple to
0:08:39modernize gonna say like Dylan represents the nineties at all and and
0:08:42Apple script I think Apple script is very much of language and and by 1991 92
0:08:51Apple where you know the whole idea of we're not gonna make programmers happy
0:08:57we're going to be a regular people programmers just like the hippy dippy
0:09:00kind of academic language like I have a highfalutin idea and I'm gonna body that
0:09:04idea a beautiful language or whatever it whereas you know Swift is pragmatic it's
0:09:09it's Chris Lattner eyes like it is nine hundred percent like everything else
0:09:12they've done it like down brass tacks we need this thing to do X Y and Z and
0:09:16we're gonna make it and it's a little bit ugly we don't care
0:09:18totally pragmatic yeah and I compared my analogy is to the use of help that occur
0:09:24throughout the UI on iOS and now on on OS 10 Helvetica is a great fun and I i
0:09:33always been a big fan of it but it's also famously very plain fun some people
0:09:38a lot of people considered to be the most neutral find that exists that you
0:09:43know they call it's with typography but that it you know I think part of the
0:09:47reason that phrase even comes on not just at the Swiss use funds like
0:09:50Helvetica but that it's the sense of neutrality and when you use Helvetica
0:09:54for anything nobody ever says my god you're so clever you found this amazing
0:09:58fun that I never heard of its a very plain fun
0:10:03and I think what like when they first unveiled the iPhone I remember people
0:10:06complained about it that wow what an uninspiring choice Helvetica I think
0:10:11Swift is that kind of programming language where there's no real amazing
0:10:14complicated it's got a weird saris though like it is I think so at that
0:10:20point the edges I think the more you look into it the more you see some rain
0:10:24it's kind of more of a mongrel a medication like that like bats in the
0:10:28middle of right it's like Helvetica and they've added a couple of Apple's
0:10:33Pacific emo Jai right to the main Langer right to the main characters so you know
0:10:41you haven't looked at it yet so well you know I think it's not PHP you know I
0:10:50looked at you know for 10 minutes so none of us well there's random sample
0:10:55people here they didn't use much of it yet but none of us have really used it
0:11:00we're not going to know whether it's a good language or not for awhile you know
0:11:05it's gonna get it takes you have to almost master language to really know
0:11:10whether it's good or not and usually most languages are and you know
0:11:13categorically good or bad there's no blood money so I think right now you can
0:11:17look at it the same way that when a whole Russia programmers came to Iowa
0:11:23for the first time to make apps for the App Store in the big gold rush
0:11:26ever get to see what a weird language all these brackets everywhere and what
0:11:30the heck does that met the definition without that weird syntax and it looked
0:11:34weird and foreign to them but the language is actually much better than
0:11:37that once you get used to it with swift I think we're looking at it now and a
0:11:42lot of him saying this is amazing but it might actually being worse than we think
0:11:46because we aren't familiar with it yet it's probably gonna be better than we
0:11:49think but it's gonna take a while before any of us are familiar enough to really
0:11:53make that call I think it has the same effect is like the new look like iOS 7
0:11:57or are your sanity when I was saying this I went when they put Objective C up
0:12:01on the slides now have two scenes with her while you can't go back to look at
0:12:06the old like I mean it whether it's better and I like it is seen it such a
0:12:09huge leap over objectives in terms of capabilities and like compactness and
0:12:13expressiveness that it's really hard to go back and look at a DEC you see
0:12:16examples you see all this noise is not there and swift and I don't think I will
0:12:21ever be able to go back into my house with ends up maybe has terrible war
0:12:24surreal design problems or whatever it's clear that Apple's committed to it we're
0:12:28gonna be using it so it's also kind of weird that like a kind of came out as
0:12:34this fully formed idea and they mentioned they're going to revise it
0:12:37slightly over time with our feedback but it came out of nowhere and all of a
0:12:44sudden boom that's this pretty advanced language of tons of capabilities out of
0:12:48the blue and flick fully designed within this little you know subset very small
0:12:54subset of Apple Valley design here this is an early language period it came out
0:13:00and not only wasn't leagues or rumored it wasn't even on people's wish lists
0:13:06like you know
0:13:09there was one of us really I don't think any of us expected this would come out
0:13:16this year at all i mean many of us myself included didn't expect to get to
0:13:21see to be replaced for the next decade and you mentioned it specifically of
0:13:27that it's it's Tuesday we've only known about it for 36 hours or so can you not
0:13:34gonna say hey on when I rewrite the overcast download manager for the fifth
0:13:38time I'm going to use swift but you know but it does seem like it seems like one
0:13:45of the ways that I think it I wouldn't bet heavily on it
0:13:50working out and very quickly you know like in a way like that whatever you
0:13:55thought about the iOS 7 look when it first came out whether you loved it
0:13:58right away or you hate it or whatever I think a gyro in to the other week when
0:14:05you look back at the old iowa's it's who you know it's really looks bad it looks
0:14:10old and I think that it's not going to take long before Objective C takes on
0:14:14that look of my god
0:14:16already there is absolutely i mean during the presentations will flip back
0:14:21and forth between slides Objective C and slides and swift and just like jon said
0:14:25the moment you get back to Objective C it's like well that feels Christian
0:14:28familiar but that it's like an old girlfriend or boyfriend right you know
0:14:31it's like at the time that would but I really liked him or her but now ten
0:14:35fifteen years on who didn't do too well after that
0:14:40wow
0:14:45and I think that it's gonna get up take quickly is one is that there they still
0:14:56have all the same frameworks the frameworks are the same it's a new
0:14:59language on top of the framework so they're not saying we've introduced this
0:15:03new thing and it's all new and it's the next generation thing and you kinda have
0:15:08to go on and it wants and we've only done this much of its a fire it's
0:15:12already all of the frameworks and I think that's huge and it means that you
0:15:17can still think about starting the user right away and I think the other thing
0:15:20is the way that they're really encouraging and emphasizing a lucid I've
0:15:23seen so far just in the first day that you can start taking existing apps and
0:15:28just rewrite one class using swift and you know just go like that or just start
0:15:33adding your new you know new features in swift and keep the old said you don't
0:15:36have to rewrite the whole app you don't have to have a swift out for an object
0:15:40of Seattle they're just Coco apps and parts are written in Objective C in
0:15:45parts are written in swept this before with are going to two years ago some
0:15:49like that it was a similar situation where that's really cool thing and you
0:15:53can use it selectively here and there but clearly it's in everyone's best
0:15:57interests in Apple's best interest it's in our best interest to to embrace this
0:16:01and really run with it and so it's a very similar tact as to what what
0:16:05happened with are also pretty confident that you know if you think about I think
0:16:10the chances of this being a very good language or very high because you see is
0:16:14a very good language and in a lot of ways I I'm a big fan of it I know it I
0:16:19PHP but that's we all know but if you think about the the amount of thought
0:16:26and criticism that must have come to this language during its development
0:16:30from the people at Apple who decide what programming language they use those
0:16:35people are probably not only in very smart but also extremely critical and
0:16:40careful when making a change like this and so I think there it's very very
0:16:44likely to end up being a very good language because of how it came to be
0:16:48about the small group of people that have seen this visit has been so secret
0:16:53and some some groups inside Apple have been looking at it like I think
0:16:57developers here in the audience when they showed you dot dot dot dot dot and
0:17:04explain how they were different video right after they told you about how they
0:17:08don't have a cow falters in the case statements and require brackets on the
0:17:12absent but then we made a mistake but you're gonna regret twenty years from
0:17:14now made two different operators that differ by a period
0:17:18behave differently to make I don't think that would have survived by contact with
0:17:23the outside world and so it shows that the group that they have inside Apple
0:17:27like me i'm not saying it's like insulin but they have to keep secret for years
0:17:31alright timeout explain her reign job yet but there's thousands of people out
0:17:39there listening to the show later I'm talking to them so there's some called a
0:17:45range operator and you can write like the digital one dot dot dot 5 and that
0:17:52returns an array of 12345 it builds in with it knows if it are integers it
0:17:59knows that one in the middle are the dot dot dot and counting to the audience but
0:18:06it
0:18:08if you only used to die if you do one dot dot 5 it doesn't return the last
0:18:15item it returns 1234 the missing dot means don't give me the last one and so
0:18:21it makes total sense to a Perl programmer I think you said two dots
0:18:26includes both endpoints and three dots doesn't include the last one I forget 10
0:18:29no more dots includes more anyway I didn't come without uses just two dots
0:18:37and its range operator it's also a flip-flop and scalar context but don't
0:18:40worry about it but yeah but like no that's that's the type of mistake that
0:18:45makes me wonder about about it and they said that we reserve the right to change
0:18:49its syntax we hope will get feedback so it's not a big deal but like you know
0:18:53but being secret for years
0:18:55effects it really says something this feature is so bad it's not even in PHP
0:18:59and phpMyAdmin time
0:19:04I do think and you know programming language is no different and in broad
0:19:10aspects from anything even something visual and it I think Apple runs into
0:19:13this time and time again with the secrecy and the way you keep stuff
0:19:17secret is by keeping it a small team and not going outside the team and then the
0:19:22smaller the team the more likely that there's some sort of blind spot on the
0:19:26team and when we ever we see a major new initiative I think I was seven is a good
0:19:30example and I probably wasn't a super tightly held secret within the company
0:19:34but it was secret enough that there weren't screenshots that leaked and what
0:19:39they showed us a year ago at WTC had a couple of really glaring like really
0:19:45you're gonna go that in on the fun for mail that I can't see it it's not so
0:19:50much a blind spot is that the group that's doing it has a hierarchy and so
0:19:54even if there is a feedback within the group that we think this is a bad idea
0:19:57if enough people in charge don't think it is the overweight the masses whereas
0:20:01when you put it out to the public then it's you know what however many million
0:20:05I was programs out there sending feedback and that is like a week and
0:20:08there's no hierarchy among them it's just a you know that's the public
0:20:11telling all there is
0:20:14it's not it is not as straightforward as reporting relationships inside Apple
0:20:17corporate so so one of the other things I took away from the chemo yesterday is
0:20:22and I think it's fair I don't see how anybody could deny it I think it was a
0:20:26year ago at the All Things D conference now it's the rico conference but I think
0:20:31that's when Tim Cook said that he was gonna go double down on secrecy you know
0:20:35I think that the question was most all along the lines of hey you guys are so
0:20:38famously secretive but you've had some leaks are you guys going to open up some
0:20:41more is a no no we're going to double down on secrecy were more committed to
0:20:44another we think our customers like to have a surprise and we think
0:20:48competitively as to our advantages and then other stuff
0:20:52leaks you know mostly hardware and everybody black satin cook says a
0:20:56doubling down on secrecy but look at all the stuff that leads I think it's very
0:21:01clear at least there might be some exceptions somewhere that I'm thinking
0:21:05but in general terms the only stuff that leads from apple recently is hardware
0:21:10from the supply chain in asia that it just seems like there's too many places
0:21:15there where there's factories and bribes and too many people who are seeing these
0:21:20prototypes shelves coming out and too much money from the case you know the
0:21:25people who make the cases to put on the phone
0:21:27want them and willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get them so that
0:21:31they can have their case ready before their competitors but in terms of stuff
0:21:36that just happens at Apple's campus the secrecy i think is better than ever
0:21:40especially you know the whole programming language the screenshots
0:21:45like yosemite everybody had guess is what was gonna look like but to my
0:21:49knowledge not a single actual screenshot League yeah I mean that's one of the
0:21:54most impressive part about the keynote is how much stuff blew our minds and
0:21:58only because it was major but because we didn't see it coming you know and like a
0:22:03great example you know it even like a week ago two weeks ago you were
0:22:08predicting that they would have problems with how to deal with Windows shadow
0:22:11in a new flattened environment because we were all predicting iOS 7 was a
0:22:16radical redesign and so therefore this is going to be a radical redesign and
0:22:20it's gonna look nothing like it did before it turns out it looks a lot like
0:22:23it did before it just it's a it's you know it's an evolution of the design and
0:22:27it's a little bit it's a bigger step than the usually taken one revision but
0:22:33you could see them like making small steps over the next four releases
0:22:36getting where it is anyway you know and and so all these crazy prediction that
0:22:41we have it would look crazy you know just totally unfamiliar totally
0:22:45different everything's all flattened with them lines that didn't come to be
0:22:49and what they gave us is something that just makes a lot more sense yeah it
0:22:55doesn't look like iOS it looks related to iOS you know like siblings who don't
0:23:02even look that much alike but they kinda look clearly like siblings it's
0:23:05definitely not like iOS running on the iPad which is what I was kind of worried
0:23:09about ya oh yeah I think we were all pretty worried about that and and I you
0:23:13know I think when they when they were about to show I think we were all year
0:23:16ago they're gonna kill every level back its gonna be really weird and I get used
0:23:21to it but we don't have to do that it you know it's it turns out it's fine
0:23:24what about the icons is that to me is the one thing that everybody loves to
0:23:30gripe about and and and iOS 7 I would say like like that this time a year ago
0:23:34I would say eighty percent of what I was hearing was about how fuckin ugly 2007
0:23:38icons were alright that's just even concede the point that these icons are
0:23:43ugly the whole OS was redesigned can we talk about something else and I feel
0:23:47like with the Mac OS 10 they they didn't go to a unified shape which is what I
0:23:51kinda thought they were gonna do it just seemed to be the same as iOS four ever
0:23:55be a circle but I kinda thought they would cause it seems like that's the
0:23:59direction they're going but they didn't it's you know they're just a little bit
0:24:02more iOS you but not really did three shapes yeah it's free it's like the its
0:24:08circular and then like it tilted rectangle rate and
0:24:11then in a rounded record something along those lines and I actually really like
0:24:15them I don't know if it's like I'm just excited about something new but I
0:24:18actually really like them I don't like them as much as John likes to Settings
0:24:22icon which is a lot but but but I do I do like them overall yeah and I think
0:24:28it's if you look at what we have to do today in previous two to yosemite it was
0:24:35looking at it when you have a doc full of all these icons are already different
0:24:38shapes and some of them have been updated in a decade it does kinda look
0:24:43dated and I think this is a nice a nice way to modernize it without being too
0:24:48restrictive to ISE and maybe the reason why we got these this flexibility of
0:24:54having three shapes to choose from work strapless flexibility I may be that
0:24:59actually like they're recommending you choose one of those is the
0:25:02recommendation people can do whatever they want their icon right but they've
0:25:07officially said though that these are the three shapes you should choose from
0:25:10that phone book to be looked at like this always somehow that doesn't get the
0:25:16nice treatment I didn't know that and I think that I think that's why we got
0:25:20these options because I bet even Apple internally could not decide on any of
0:25:25these shapes to have all of their icon become that shape so we got choice when
0:25:29the one thing I'm also very excited about is perhaps the sea of blue icons
0:25:33on my dog at least it'll be like a circular blue icon and a tilted blue
0:25:37icon and that's where the orange now I think that about iTunes is red I think
0:25:44it's safe to say I'm gonna pull the audience in a second but you think it's
0:25:48safe to say that the USMNT design is far less contentious than I was only because
0:25:56I was seven came first though this game before I was seventy flipping out as we
0:26:00wouldn't know that they taking bars on the buttons was even an option if I
0:26:03wasn't until now like thank God the boxes around them and everything's fine
0:26:09honestly might buy I think I texted Dave wickets afterwards were talking about
0:26:14you know how we're going to Vespers from acting like I just like all capped it I
0:26:17was like buttons look like buttons I have it I have a review unit apples of
0:26:27gaming running 10 ate already so I've spent a couple hours on it today and you
0:26:32do too but you guys haven't really you i mean it's only one day you guys have
0:26:36installed care about them only half of us get press passes he does have a Mac
0:26:41just a Mexico right i mean i havent texted six what looks good I played with
0:26:46the playground stuff for swift and that looks really awesome but I i'm the only
0:26:49stuff on Yosemite obscene is watching over John shoulders he was fiddling with
0:26:53it earlier today we're not special enough to get review units I dunno just
0:26:57poking around and going through settings and stuff it I'm surprised maybe even in
0:27:03a good way I i think in a good way that it's really is mostly is skin deep
0:27:09change it's really just a new team and and very little else is changing even
0:27:14little things that I really thought we're going to go away like the blue or
0:27:20graphite highlight color choice thing which you know I know why they did it
0:27:25back in 2001 it was everybody flipped out because my god bright blue you know
0:27:30I don't like bright blue and their legal right here you go there's something
0:27:32weird I've been running for fourteen years but that option is still there
0:27:38exactly the wording is unchanged the you know I think we're all afraid I was
0:27:43there was gonna be like Windows 8 we're like finders gone all it is is excited
0:27:47by it sweeps in from the side that has a grid of icons launch pad is the new
0:27:50Finder or System Preferences now is a full screen app icons are giant like
0:27:54it's not it's just like you said every strength then there's an awful lot of
0:27:57apps that to me just look just the theme is different everything else is pretty
0:28:02much the same there's a lot of apps that are just unchanged
0:28:05I'm pretty happy about that and the new look at like when it's on the slides you
0:28:10like I'm not sure about it or whatever but when you see it when you see it in
0:28:13the elements like a look at the new Safari with all kind comes together like
0:28:16alright it's go hearing it is all of a piece whether you like it or not it
0:28:20doesn't look like something slap together you can kind of see a
0:28:23continuous static on it which apps that have not been completely converted like
0:28:28you just take your aptitude never knew existed launched it may be that a
0:28:32lookout but Apple's own after leading the way in a reasonable way of saying
0:28:35this is what it could look like check it out there are simple there like one
0:28:39title bar once I Barna source list or whatever like I don't know what
0:28:42Photoshop should look like they used to view of it I think when I have seen the
0:28:48screenshots and little damage using here and there like the most jarring change
0:28:52to me is the change which we were all you know like we've been saying we've
0:28:57been thinking for a long time
0:28:58oh yeah well they're probably gonna change the font is probably gonna be a
0:29:02variant had to deal with that along with as they blow up the interface you know
0:29:06and that ends up that's like that's like the biggest most noticeable change now I
0:29:11also think that it looks it looks natural on a Retina display and maybe
0:29:15that's because that's the review unit the game is a retina MacBook Pro so
0:29:19that's what I've seen it on but I i've never thought that Mac OS 10 look quite
0:29:23right on the retina display until now because it just always look to me faith
0:29:27like fake version of Mac OS 10 ginned up for a movie version of movie actors make
0:29:33a right
0:29:34yeah that's what it always looked like to me it's like end and part of it is
0:29:37fun but Lucida Grande whatever you know ever greater was in 2001 2002 with their
0:29:42big fat pixels on CRT displays back then and the way that all the hunting helped
0:29:48the strokes fall on the pixel grid we don't need to worry about that shit
0:29:53anymore I mean we've retina displays and nobody doing 309 output whatever use
0:29:58Lucida Grande thing about the old look was that all the interest was in the
0:30:04service details this looks like it's kind of made out of metal and it looks
0:30:07like it's kind of shiny or whatever and when you take all that away and they did
0:30:10take it all away with the flatness
0:30:11everything the only thing you have left to lean on ethically speaking its
0:30:15sharpness and so this looks great honor I think it doesn't look as if not read
0:30:19this letter and display it's like what we have here is cleanliness sharpness
0:30:23and this team takes advantage of that and I think this would not be a
0:30:27successful Brenda didn't exist no I don't I definitely think so I don't
0:30:31think you know no way that it would look and I don't think iOS would either you
0:30:37know I don't think there was any world where the iOS 7 look what I've ever hit
0:30:40before those devices always there for the poor iPad Mini first gen that's a
0:30:46device there really is gonna be all bottom because they were so small so
0:30:50light and now that the red ones exist and you look at that first of all I like
0:30:57how long are they going to actually keep supporting the A five like you know we
0:31:00we lucked out this year but it's now the minimum so I'm thinking it's not get my
0:31:05last nine Apple PR will never they're all everybody works there's no pro and
0:31:11no never ever even off the record a single word that is against Apple's
0:31:17interests because their PR people that's what they do and I remember at WBC last
0:31:21year after the keynote when I got the briefing and the you know what you think
0:31:25but I was seven and have any questions I get asked questions and one of my
0:31:28questions was everything your show this all looks great I really liked it I
0:31:32think it's great direction but every device you're showing it to me on as a
0:31:35Retina Display what about the iPad Mini is it going to get the same luck and I
0:31:39guess yeah and I was like I see it and they're like oh yeah and I was like is
0:31:45it gonna look good and there was like no ads
0:31:50looks fine and then they are you know somebody was there already with another
0:31:54question like you know how is your son and they're still selling those new
0:32:01a lot of disappointed I mean on retina iPad Mini owners in about a year
0:32:08you know I hope this fall daily stop selling them and then you know next year
0:32:12I was not announced no more a five devices
0:32:16there's a lot of a five devices out there totaling the last big ticket thing
0:32:22is that to me it was the keynote yesterday was a sign of how Apple is
0:32:27playing a very long game in most of these regards and I think they've got a
0:32:33years-long road map and plan and we only see them on these four months six-month
0:32:42intervals of here's what we have ready for you now and it's so easy and I think
0:32:47so many people misunderstand the company think that in between one and the next
0:32:51everything they've done is what they've done in between the next that everything
0:32:55they announced today is all the stuff that they've decided to do in the last
0:32:5912 months since last WWDC and so you see a you see it with the keyboards on the
0:33:05third party keyboards for iOS and there were questions be by in the press area
0:33:11have to ask you what made you change your mind on these what what you know is
0:33:15it because they're so popular on Android you know as it did
0:33:18customers are asked for it and they didn't we've been working on this for
0:33:21years you know that we really you know and you can argue maybe engineering lies
0:33:24it shouldn't have taken years but their explanation is that they're thinking
0:33:27about it for a long time I mean we've been talking about XP see WBC is four
0:33:33years of inner application communication and how are they going to do it and I
0:33:38think that you know typical Apple they wanted to get it right and that's just a
0:33:43sign it short memories though that wasn't last year's the BBC or
0:33:46third-party keyboards like guaranteed a lock for the key november that rumor
0:33:50that the press to be fair you know that the press usually mostly martes martes
0:33:57you they most of them
0:33:59you know they we asked them to remember alive in this business we we asked them
0:34:06to remember a lot like can you can you name the whatever phone 12 months ago
0:34:11was the iPhone killer that month that we there's a lot going on in the press
0:34:17there's a lot of Apple keeps dying and being doomed and you know and and they
0:34:22just they just cant remember simple things like that you know products take
0:34:25more than a year to develop the one thing they announced yesterday that I
0:34:30that I makes me wonder whether they've changed their mind over the last few
0:34:35years is iCloud drive because it seemed to me that maybe that was just the spin
0:34:44at the time before they had the find function but it seemed to me that there
0:34:47are an awful lot of people who were saying okay with the iCloud documents I
0:34:52can build something that is just like Dropbox right long story short list just
0:34:58like Dropbox but takes my club credentials and then it's you know it's
0:35:01not like a nasty finder hack it's built into the system and their answer was you
0:35:06know I don't know
0:35:09maybe you know maybe who knows maybe even those in the audience are some poor
0:35:14guy from Apple in the audience who's been working on iCloud drive for six
0:35:17years and you know non-stop with the original vision that is exactly like
0:35:22what they announced yesterday but I don't know it makes me think that maybe
0:35:25they thought they could get away with not having a here's where you're going
0:35:29to save your files experience on iOS and maybe they've come to conclude that that
0:35:34was wrong or short-sighted you know when I first when I first launched the
0:35:39magazine I tried not having a Settings panel was like you know settings panels
0:35:44are clunky hack let me see if I can just get away with not having any settings at
0:35:49all just make good decisions and I'll let you know
0:35:51surface things to textually and it turned out that that was a bad idea it
0:35:54was required meet you do other bad hacks that made the overall product actually
0:35:59worse and I had to eventually backtrack on that iCloud document model stories
0:36:04and iCloud file story I think had a similar problem where they designed it
0:36:09in with with this goal in mind let's get rid of files and folders exposed to the
0:36:14user and and let's make this thing just saying any help you know I never had
0:36:18never heard that from the start so let's just give these little silos inside of
0:36:22each app and they'll have these flat lists of files in that app and it won't
0:36:27be able to talk to each other it'll be fun that's kind of how it works and then
0:36:30they brought to match their kind of this hidden folder buried somewhere deeply in
0:36:35the hierarchy that you're not supposed to deal with just trust us there
0:36:38somewhere
0:36:39files somewhere and I think that proved to be a model that they they had this
0:36:44goal in mind the simplicity but the reality of that the practicality of
0:36:50people using that and multiple a productivity and things just simple
0:36:55things like where are these files so I can back them up you know the simple
0:36:59things like that the reality made that idea
0:37:02worse and practice and they would have had to do a bunch of crazy hacks they
0:37:07tried to do lunch tracy has to make it work out that actually made a worse
0:37:12overall experience and so I think this is then recognizing you know one common
0:37:17place where you store files that behaves like a folder full of other folder
0:37:22hours people are okay with that you know that give people a little bit of credit
0:37:25that folder might not be where you want to be it might be their desktop but
0:37:29people do that they are ok with having all files live in one place for all
0:37:33applications within the subfolders maybe for some of the Paisley that's a model
0:37:37that works Dropbox has proven it computers before that people are okay
0:37:42with that i think thats that'll realizing like if we're gonna start
0:37:46breaking down some of these productivity barriers between iOS and Mac everything
0:37:49that they interact indications are that this is this will go a long way if we
0:37:54could give up a little bit of our vision about what I was supposed to be so are
0:37:58you at all nervous John about the fact that they are putting a lot of eggs in
0:38:02the basket and I know it's almost trendy 22 bitch and moan about how I club
0:38:06doesn't work the way they say it shouldn't and so on but I mean it seems
0:38:11to me like they're they're going all in on iCloud and that could be dangerous
0:38:15like how do you feel about dangerous how just because we especially as developers
0:38:20and a lot of us don't have anything in the fact that iCloud is really strong
0:38:24stable available etc and so now they're now Apple saying no really we are all in
0:38:31on iCloud so you guys are you might as well come along and I didn't go to the
0:38:34cloud kids session today but I've heard unbelievably positive things about it so
0:38:38do you have like how does that make you feel you nervous already I think it's
0:38:44inevitable I don't need to have a choice I think that again I might be reading
0:38:49into this John you might notice you were actually at the conference all day and
0:38:52sleeping but I it seems not doing away with it because if you're already using
0:38:58it to him again but it seems like the thing to do no longer talking about is
0:39:01iCloud core data syncing talking about the end of the cloud get session they're
0:39:06likely at all is iCloud things when should I use each one remember the
0:39:10marquee value storage and it documents in the cloud and iCloud Core Data and
0:39:14Cloud kit and they went through a mall and get down to iCloud card it up
0:39:18they're gonna say never but they didn't mean to put a brave face on it but it
0:39:23does a lot of similar things like in a different way I'm not sure they didn't
0:39:27come right out and say we're deprecated in the ways that didn't work and this is
0:39:30the new way but they have to have a suite of things under the umbrella of
0:39:34iCloud and some of them are better than others I'm hoping these new ones are the
0:39:38best yet find out you know I think I think they'll make it work I because I
0:39:43think the day no I don't think there's any doubt that they know that they have
0:39:46to do well at it I think the things you have to worry about without blur the
0:39:50things where it seems like they don't they don't seem to think it's important
0:39:54well be committed to the club the first time when jobs up there and set up no I
0:39:58didn't know the clouds in the middle lines come out from that that seemed
0:40:01like a recommitment to it but then what they offer and was like some good some
0:40:05bad now I'm getting a better buy from the new stuff it seems like all the
0:40:09things that you like that worked well about iCloud these are more like those
0:40:13or in the case of cloud get this is more like what everyone was doing instead of
0:40:16using iCloud card and they were forced to do their own thing and they would use
0:40:19you know people like databases like Pepsi model FMD beer whatever this is
0:40:24like that but with an apple two piston really awesome and everything and that's
0:40:27actually pretty similar to what happened between core data plus iCloud and now
0:40:32the new client is actually very similar I just saying about the Callaghan their
0:40:35original view original vision of this is how we're gonna do iCloud its gonna have
0:40:41this magical simply just keep using Core Data everything's just magically sings
0:40:46and of course that that wasn't a server problem that was a design problem and
0:40:51appreciated I closed the problem call card data it would be great to put up a
0:40:55sign that says that it works on iCloud and then everything will be fine but
0:40:58let's base and they basically an ounce CoreData Franklin the didn't so I think
0:41:03cloud kid is then again it's like it's similar to how they kind of made i
0:41:07fouled file picking a little more like Dropbox that's what people actually need
0:41:11and it's a it's a better overall design in reality I think loud kit is solving
0:41:17so many of the same needs as iCloud core data but it is a much better design for
0:41:22reality the one thing then you know no surprise and everybody knows Apple is
0:41:26ecosystem company and that they want you know stuff is supposed to work better
0:41:30and we're gonna have time to get into all the continuities topic on duty stuff
0:41:34is an acknowledgement that that if if you have an iPhone and Mac you get this
0:41:40amazing feature that you could not have if you use an Android phone where you
0:41:43can start writing an email and switch to the Mac and I played with that and i got
0:41:48a demo of it and it works it's very very cool I can definitely see using it but
0:41:56that they're adding all these other developer things though I think with the
0:41:58hopes of getting more apps to go apple only you know like I think the idea
0:42:05would be like taking a plague Instagram that had enormous server-side costs
0:42:10because it's photos and lots of users and they want to be social name when I
0:42:14get a lot of people to sign up and I think that iCloud cloud kid is sort of a
0:42:21hey you want to build a thing like Instagram don't even worry about the
0:42:25server stuff and we'll give you really really generous amounts of storage and
0:42:29bandwidth well for getting it off the ground right and the end there's a big
0:42:35question mark like they were like here it's free and you get all this for free
0:42:37and then there was no like what happens after that I think what happens is you
0:42:41get a phone call from Apple and and they are a weenie dog I'm guessing it's gonna
0:42:47be pretty price competitive I should I think it's hard to know if you're
0:42:50looking at let's let's let's build a business on this you know let's talk
0:42:55about Vesper right so the limit that they've been published in public
0:42:59documents like I don't know what the NDA at the India situations we are too kind
0:43:02of unspecified who knows but the limit is it something like a hundred megs per
0:43:06user for like you know blob storage and then one meg for database storage now
0:43:11that those sound load me like you couldn't it would be irresponsible for
0:43:17you to design something like Instagram knowing that as soon as one of those
0:43:22users had a hundred megs of photos something would stop and who knows what
0:43:28your options would be at that point whether you'd even have any options or
0:43:31whether like the call to clog it was just fine
0:43:34with narrow parameters it's it's a lot of stuff it's only be outside your
0:43:38control right and that's kind of it would be irresponsible to build on that
0:43:42knowing that like there's this wall that you could bury you know it's not like
0:43:47the limit is 50 terabytes per user like these are legal limits that are very
0:43:51plausibly hit and exceeded and so you know what do you do and you just hope no
0:43:56one hit that that's not very smart if you're going to build a service like
0:44:01this that's like a network-based service that is like a cloud backend you gonna
0:44:05do it on Apple only about platform and I get there maybe I mean maybe eighty
0:44:11eight players in the service side space and then you're going to like this you
0:44:14start getting bigger all we're getting big we should make an Android version we
0:44:17should be the Kindle oh you can't like your your cat you're putting a cap on
0:44:22your potential if you ever want to be the next Instagram
0:44:24building block it but it's great for people who are not gonna be the next
0:44:28instagramers want to have a great application like me again with Vestberg
0:44:31you build that iCloud iOS on the Mac you could use cloud could do you know who
0:44:36knows what we would have done a year ago of cloud kid came out a year ago but I
0:44:40don't think we would have done anything differently I haven't seen anything that
0:44:42really makes me regret doing our own back and because of that issues like do
0:44:47we have plans to write an Android app well I don't think Brent knows how to
0:44:50write and read absent minded maybe down the road you know right we could do a
0:44:57Web Beacon even do a web app and we want to have those options and are thinking
0:45:01in broad strokes was well we could maybe do something quicker if we build on
0:45:06Dropbox or you know I had an option to do Dropbox or had an option to do
0:45:11something with the core data iCloud syncing and then we'd work on her own
0:45:15thing that would roll out but I think whenever you make it
0:45:18engineering decision like that and you think what we'll do this stop-gap first
0:45:23cuz it's quicker and dirtier and easier and will ship something first and then
0:45:26we'll do the real good virgin then you never do the good version you're stuck
0:45:30with the crappy ones data migration will kill you
0:45:32so if we wanted to do it eventually then we should have done it first and I think
0:45:38that we did it the right way I think spike it is the same sort of idea the
0:45:42idea was to break it and it's a good one it's not all about locked in its not
0:45:45surely cynical hey write your game with spray kit and you'll save all this work
0:45:50but then you'll be stuck with an iOS only game I think it's you know from
0:45:56Apple's perspective it's win-win that's what cocoa Cocoa Touch have done for
0:46:00close to 30 years is take DDM away from programmers and do a really good
0:46:06framework that you can count on but I wonder I don't know what the uptake is
0:46:11under great kid because it just seems to me like most major effort mobile games
0:46:16more than any other kind of at because of the nature games want to be
0:46:20cross-platform or wanna be cross-platform eventually and so I just
0:46:24don't know if it's ever gonna really take off I think we're looking at this
0:46:28from the point of view of me i'm looking at some like loud kids well from my
0:46:34point of view of wanting to design a really big web service that has gonna
0:46:39have you know the six year life span and or or more than that maybe and and you
0:46:44know possibly get to a billion dollar valuation somehow like that's yeah it
0:46:50might not be good for that but there's a massive class of problems that these
0:46:54kind of framework solve that are on a much smaller scale and most developers
0:46:58are not working on things like that most developers are working on much smaller
0:47:01apps that like if the alternative is no back and then cloud it is really nice
0:47:08because it's it's a backhand you can use for limited value for limited purposes
0:47:11but that's that's enough tons of applications spread get very similar
0:47:17like yeah you're not you're not going to make the next you know Rovio company on
0:47:22that because you're not going to be able to address all these other platforms
0:47:24that hiring people to rewrite the engine for all of them eventually recovered
0:47:28OpenGL or whatever but that's not what it's made to solve it and it's made to
0:47:32solve much smaller needs for a far larger number of hours and you know once
0:47:38you exceed those limits on these things then you're probably big enough that you
0:47:41can't afford to migrate yes so for those of you with an ATP I've talked on and
0:47:46off about how I really just want a really solid apt to share grocery list
0:47:49with my wife and reminders will do it but it's crummy in other apps out there
0:47:53for me if I wanted to write something I don't want to have to worry about VPS is
0:47:58I don't have to worry about a lot of other things and so something like Cloud
0:48:02kit is perfect for this app that I want to write really to scratch my own niche
0:48:06and you know if I make a few bucks off its sweet but I'm never gonna be a
0:48:10Vesper I'm never gonna be in Instapaper and overcast anything like that and
0:48:13that's okay say that shipping out that's true and 11 last topic on the dirt paths
0:48:29the way I think it's very telling about where Apple is today in a keynote
0:48:37especially at WWDC keynote because the event ones are more focused is it a
0:48:40we've just got this new iPad we want to show you but WABC you can see what Apple
0:48:45thinks is important based on what kind of stented gets on stage right there's
0:48:49the basic level of there's this thing and I'll just tell you in a bit of a
0:48:53slide the thing and then it's on to the next topic then there's like bring out a
0:48:58special guests and bring out like you know that I get too far and is I bring
0:49:03out like a third party and say we brought them here a month ago we tied
0:49:07them up in a room and made them write this thing and the one that got that the
0:49:11only third-party that came on stage yesterday was epic and that was for
0:49:15metal and yeah that's really goes against the idea that they were focusing
0:49:22on the consumer stuff right medal and it's a replacement for OpenGL and blah
0:49:27blah blah you know millions of triangles per second but Apple clearly sees it is
0:49:32important because they spent a lot of time on it
0:49:35and big demo and I think it's so interesting about where Apple is a
0:49:40company today because it's not just that they've replaced OpenGL is that they've
0:49:44gotten out of now the headache of OpenGL as I can open it's got like a consortium
0:49:51behind it and so they want to get improvements to OpenGL so that it runs
0:49:55better on a seven they've got to go through this process and now but all
0:50:00that right
0:50:02metal is exactly what Apple ones for talking to the GPUs that they've
0:50:09designed like now they've got an API using the Jeep GPUs that was designed
0:50:14hand-in-hand with the hard work guys were making the GPUs and that is not
0:50:20something Apple 10 years ago could have done because Apple wasn't big enough
0:50:24Microsoft do and they did it with tax and Microsoft could get away with it
0:50:30because there were three four hundred million PCs out the world and a hundred
0:50:36million people who want to play games and so Microsoft could say we've got
0:50:39direct tax you're gonna program to direct tax and game developers said yes
0:50:46Direct X had the advantage of learning from all the OpenGL mistakes with OpenGL
0:50:49was older so it is a little bit more indirect tax Microsoft has evolved it
0:50:54and it is a very capable avi but I think the metal front a lot of that I think
0:50:58was coming from
0:50:59game developers who were saying you've got a great GPU but you make it to use
0:51:03OpenGL ES and here's a very stupid and like you said I was like well as you
0:51:07don't make OpenGL we don't find the standard we work with the consortium but
0:51:10I try to work with every three see it's a slow process as a game two of us like
0:51:14both what about now shipping game now I wanna you know when you get closer to
0:51:18the middle and they pulled the name right and you know it's like aim
0:51:22dismantle its game developers wanted this game developer and what can apple
0:51:26to apple can't make their own direct taxpayers that's not what we want we we
0:51:31know exactly what we know what the GPU is capable of just give us more control
0:51:34so it's one of the rare case for Apple and here's the new API that's lower
0:51:37level and that it's because developers wanted it
0:51:39what lower-level well and then I think the other way that it work and I'll get
0:51:43up take is that they've clearly this is one of those things where they were
0:51:46little open slightly with a short list but they had a pic they've they've got
0:51:50like I think the four big game engines on board already and so it's the game
0:51:56engines that provide the higher level API that most game developers spend most
0:52:00of their time in and they just get to take advantage of this 10 X improvement
0:52:05but I and i know and I know the guy even said like an order of magnitude
0:52:08improvement but I don't think people maybe some people don't really think
0:52:11that that could be true that like year over year there's a 10 X improvement in
0:52:15graphics but it's really that true I mean its specific cases like it OpenGL
0:52:18API and I want you like patch up your stuff and not to a bunch of different
0:52:22calls but just get it together about your crap make one call because doing
0:52:25the cause is expensive and this is saying well i get a text me up because i
0:52:28dont have to do that anymore now do this careful batching and been trying to play
0:52:31nice with OpenGL I can just send the calls and I mean I don't know the name
0:52:34of the details of it but it's like it is a kind of a teller pic benchmark oh I
0:52:38got 10 X in this particular operation but that particular abrasion happens all
0:52:41the time and you can work around the away but it was annoying and it said
0:52:44geez just let me talk to the GPU the way wants me to talk about how to deal with
0:52:47the stuff alright whatever
0:52:52let's take a break I want to end up the nerdy part of the show it was pretty
0:52:58good but I have a surprise I have a surprise guest from our friends at Apple
0:53:05and I know it was in the news last week
0:53:08know better I have a gift for you Marco and it's here from Dr Dre ladies and
0:53:17gentlemen dr dre I know that you love high-end headphones you can go ahead and
0:53:34open that I'll hold this I think it would be fair for you to throw those on
0:53:38real quick so we really so I had read called ray and you know it takes phone
0:53:46calls he answered right on his Mac and I said ray his number now I need the best
0:53:51headphones in oral does this guy is really fucking picky I mean I sent him
0:53:54the URL of his head punk America is a wholly shit man neck I really knows his
0:53:58shit I got just the phone forum Beats Studio special edition of the fighting
0:54:03is actually I was in an Apple store easily and I tried these on and I think
0:54:06you know actually have all the beats
0:54:08these actually don't sound that bad like I was like you know i'm always here if I
0:54:13had to buy a pair of Beats the studios are actually the least crappy sounding
0:54:18ones that they make way to ruin the bed and their overcast team to totally yeah
0:54:25top-secret my color is orange one of our sponsor for the episode who do I want to
0:54:32thank and that is our good friends at market circle markets organized to great
0:54:37apps you've probably heard of them both because they've sponsored my show before
0:54:40they sponsored the site but they've Billings pro nafta time tracking and
0:54:45invoicing out so anybody does freelance work we have to talk tractor times and
0:54:49invoices if you have a lot to billings pressure not great AB they've got
0:54:54clients for all your devices and when you make your invoice they've got
0:54:59templates and themes and they come out looking great so it's not like some kind
0:55:02of ugly thing what looks like a 1978 packs printed out your invoice really
0:55:08really top-notch design great stuff and daylight daylight is a software for
0:55:14organizing your business the way they describe it is its CRM with productivity
0:55:20features first as opposed to the other way around so you can actually organized
0:55:23the people who are involved in the people you know your company in a way
0:55:27that looks like a real
0:55:29Mac or iOS app not some piece of crap typical CRM stuff so markets are you go
0:55:36to market circle dot com and check out their great stuff but they helped
0:55:38sponsor the show and it's great and the other thing I want to do is I want to
0:55:42mention a so age is the guy from market circle he's been a longtime fan of the
0:55:47show and he a couple weeks ago I got a nice email from somebody at iTunes about
0:55:53the explicit tag on this podcast and the fact that it wasn't there and and and it
0:55:59is just you know we all of your shows very nice very personal and was and we
0:56:03know you know there's not a lot of swearing on your show but it does come
0:56:06up occasionally and we've started to get some complaints from parents and so I
0:56:12started you know if you look at the feed there's like at least two episodes in
0:56:15the last five for 34 that have the explicit at you because they're swearing
0:56:19obviously the show's writing an app to have the explicit and that very day I
0:56:23got any mail and it just said subject my son and the talk show and I thought god
0:56:29here it is and I almost even read it I don't want to read this and I right
0:56:34clicked and ready and instead it was AJ writing and he just said his 10 year old
0:56:37son and he's a huge fan of the show as it wow ten years old my son does not
0:56:43listen to me talk about any of this stuff that's amazing ten years old and
0:56:47he'd loves the talk show and it's the only joie likes those sorry guys only
0:56:51show he likes to listen to and so AJ said that he'll listen to the talk shows
0:56:56he's been a long time was in our enemies i driving his son to school or sacrifice
0:57:00some things I want to listen to talk show he's a listen to the episodes again
0:57:03because he's already listened to Amazon wants to listen to him anyways some play
0:57:07soccer and and a week or so ago he was playing any I got injured he got a
0:57:12concussion and he's been laid up since can't play soccer can even listen got
0:57:17headaches can even listen to podcasts two sons name is creating and I just
0:57:22wanted to say something to him right here on the show cause whenever is
0:57:26better from this concussion is gonna listen to it and I hope it's a nice
0:57:30throw but let's everybody here in the show let's hear it for Caden the 10 year
0:57:34old fan of the talk show
0:57:43I am i Casey my next guest is my good friend mr. Scott Simpson
0:58:40the talk-show Worldwide Developers something's up that I feel like the show
0:58:50I realized when I was backstage waiting to go up the show is gonna be a mullet
0:58:55businesses over its party hi my name is Scott Simpson I worked at Apple for
0:59:07about eight years and then I left to do stand-up comedy about a year and a half
0:59:12ago for the money
0:59:16know that Marcos looking at my but right now it's right down and it's been going
0:59:28well and if you don't know who I am that's fine I assume you're freakin or
0:59:34some type of hill person that's fine though and I was talking to a friend of
0:59:39mine like hey how can I get my name out there more as a comedian now that I'm
0:59:43doing comedy and he was like well what's your theme song as i do what do you mean
0:59:50things I did you get a theme song as I don't have a theme song if you have a
0:59:55theme song that people remember it they know it's you sound like a great idea so
1:00:01i sat down with my guitar in my office and I i not down a little theme song you
1:00:07guys wanna hear it all right let's listen to my the theme song that I wrote
1:00:12for myself
1:00:26got got
1:00:48dad
1:00:52thank you thank you it was really fun to work with Lil Jon on then my friend
1:01:09Jesse chart has a great idea about Lil Jon 2014 we have exactly the right
1:01:16amount of a lil jon like Lil Jon's not food allergens like a spicy on too much
1:01:20lower John my little joke I take that back to my people and they were like you
1:01:28know what that's great but it's a little maybe a little edgy for your for your
1:01:33crowd so I went back to the drawing board and I I tried I tried another day
1:01:40another route so let's let's hear that next one
1:01:57then they were like well its cues a little young like the little poppy and
1:02:02maybe that's not your style try something a little a little more classic
1:02:07a little older so I went back to the drawing board
1:02:20I agree with you guys that want sex so there was too old so I tried like
1:02:27another tack
1:02:38and they're like the voice is good and I was I was into it as I i thought I
1:02:47sounded really good on that track that same voice and like some setting and
1:02:51GarageBand try that voice but try it like a little more rocky
1:03:11cool dad
1:03:12so I realize now that I made too many of these but we're still gonna do it and
1:03:25then you know we realize like it does need to be a little more current a
1:03:28little more a little more interesting and fun maybe bring it up a little bit
1:03:32in terms of energy so let's give this one a listen
1:03:44Scott makes land I agreed that the messaging on that was a little weird so
1:03:59we we got to this guy
1:04:10are you as bored of this joke as I am but you was a rhetorical question
1:04:28clappers dammit I that's what I said on this one is it are you booing me mother
1:04:39fucker year 11
1:05:03turndown forced got I feel like that the best way to live with that
1:05:08thank you it is it is very nice to be in San Francisco I live here I know a lot
1:05:15of you folks traveled here from elsewhere over the weekend I want to
1:05:19tell you this brief story I went to Indiana to perform in a Comedy Festival
1:05:26there and when I was there for my friend was like are you going to Bloomington
1:05:31Limited is fun but watch out they like to drink that's also how people
1:05:41introduced me what he likes to drink so I took it as a challenge I think I wanna
1:05:52might have lost I'm not sure I got drunk the whole time it was great but a couple
1:05:56other amazing things happened to me when I was in India is anybody hear from
1:06:00Indiana clapping from Indiana alright that's a decent number here's what I
1:06:05thought about Indiana before I went
1:06:07as I was driving from Indianapolis and the airport was driving on the highway
1:06:15was so beautiful as they drove a majestic waterbird like a heron or a
1:06:24train a four foot wingspan came and flew next to my car for about a minute just
1:06:32flew there next to my car and I swear to God at one point it looked over and he
1:06:38was like I'm pretty sure I got Sept by a heron it was awesome is like it was like
1:06:45that moment in Easy Rider when somebody does something to think whatever doesn't
1:06:50matter but I was riding along with his goddamn hearin it was beautiful
1:06:56now we have to use the explicit tags I'm sorry I'm sorry Katun Katun man I know
1:07:01you're not gonna listen to this but you get so much puts based on that that
1:07:06applause bro fucking kidding me seven Scott for that kind of thing
1:07:25one moment it marked off and I saw it fly over a large warehouse and on the
1:07:47side of the warehouse was a bed sheet and on the bed sheet was hand painted
1:07:52the word fireworks as I left the fireworks store with a bag full of way
1:08:03more shit than I can use in three days I thought to myself this is amazing this
1:08:08is jus amazing human achievements you too amazing human perceptions in one day
1:08:13I got to view I got to see the majesty of nature and I also got to experience
1:08:20the majesty of using some shit to blow other shit up right it's great like I
1:08:26feel like that is more to us as people whether you believe in God or not you
1:08:30recognize that the world is a magical wonderful place and sometimes you want
1:08:38to make it fucking explode
1:08:40spent in my hotel room listening to Lionel Richie just sitting on a pile of
1:08:51fireworks not dancing on the ceiling
1:08:55hello I listened to hello on repeat in my underwear surrounded by bottle
1:09:02rockets and Roman candles and I thought to myself god dammit heartland
1:09:08there's some things you do write like I'ma California guy I'm as blue state as
1:09:12they come but I loved being in Indiana has you know what if a dumb meeting bro
1:09:17wants to ride around on his motorcycle with his helmet off that's kind of great
1:09:20right like I feel like we can learn from I can learn certainly from that
1:09:26perspective like certainly I believe that a woman has a right to a legal and
1:09:33safe abortion thank you I think if you believe in it why don't we clap for that
1:09:38if you believe it I believe in that
1:09:43also want to clap for this next one I also believe that that same woman has a
1:09:48legal unsafe right to enough fireworks to freak out all the cats in her
1:09:54neighborhood writes like both of those things that's great what i was gonna say
1:10:00based on that was you know i think thats same thing sort of applies a lot of
1:10:04times in technology like there's a partisanship between two opposing sides
1:10:10like like iOS vs Android or something like that and we really gained a lot
1:10:16when we come together and figure stuff out that works on both sides I was gonna
1:10:20say that that's boring as fuck I just want to talk about being in my underwear
1:10:24in my hotel room
1:10:29the other thing you got those sweet beats you sweet beats from now have you
1:10:52guys ever heard of a place called Draper University now have had they been here
1:11:01ever heard of Draper University a few a few people ok ok you might not like the
1:11:06next half an hour but we talked about think you guys thank you so much for
1:11:28booze and Jesse charged so I do a lot of stuff in San Mateo I spent a lot of time
1:11:39at the public library and San Mateo because they have the most relaxed
1:11:44sleeping policy and I've often walked by this place that is an old converted
1:11:51hotel and I walked past the other day and in the window where two giant
1:11:57photographs one of Steve Jobs and one of Elon Musk looking like he needs some Sun
1:12:05like he always does like what is this place so I did some research online to
1:12:11find out what Draper university is and i thought id share with you
1:12:14mostly because I feel like as good people like I feel like we should combat
1:12:20the douchiness in our midst and technology often encourages a lot of a
1:12:28lot of that behavior it's rampant out and about yeah oh yeah exactly and so
1:12:33that's where that's why this is so I looked it up online Draper University
1:12:38and I i got this I got this information
1:12:41located in Silicon Valley Draper University of Heroes the first sign like
1:12:51it
1:12:51University of heroes and then I remembered like a bunch of like young
1:12:56people walking around town wearing this t-shirt that just says hero on it did
1:13:01you did you save a cat from a burning building you don't look like it and I
1:13:05realize that their attendees of Draper University University of Heroes is the
1:13:09brainchild of free-spirited venture capitalists Tim Draper aka the risk
1:13:15master i think is a good stand-in for a Silicon Valley produce like like like
1:13:25the last generation like you know like he's got like a fun tie and he hates all
1:13:30taxes
1:13:36I thought when you said it I never heard it I thought it was maybe like Don
1:13:42Draper University and I feel like anybody who enroll thinking along the
1:13:48lines of thinking is probably going to be very disappointed when the classes
1:13:51classes going to start like that that's what we do a shot and then we learn how
1:13:58to harass you unlearn all those classes he took only two very different
1:14:05University it is so what they say on the website
1:14:08top of the line websites not a terrible
1:14:13an unconventional world-class residential an online school for the
1:14:16brightest young entrepreneurs from around the world
1:14:20our core curriculum our core curriculum includes some of the following topics
1:14:24media training negotiations various topics in finance gloss over the stuff
1:14:33that's actually a school subjects and then a dive into other things like lean
1:14:41startups creativity crash course design thinking innovation and some other
1:14:50terrible stuff and so I was like what what is it so I looked for their I
1:14:55watched a video is a great video online about Draper University instead of desks
1:15:00students sit in colorful bean bag chairs and the video is great because like
1:15:07obviously had this idea is like this would be great
1:15:10will be unconventional as fuck will just sit and bean bag chairs and bandy about
1:15:14great ideas for how to change the world and you see the kids in the bean bag
1:15:18chairs and they're like sliding down did you have a bean bag chair when you're
1:15:24grown up now I wanted one that I was not allowed to have one because I was told
1:15:29before we ever even tried it that it would break and make a ginormous mess
1:15:34you are good parents like the bean bag chairs the great life like the Hungry
1:15:40Hungry Hippos of chairs like it seems like the best thing in the world and
1:15:44then you get it and somebody as well as a marble in your the emergency room
1:15:48every common area in hallway is covered in white board paint for brainstorming
1:15:54and there's a shot of the class schedule at one point one of the classes is
1:16:00called future ology making up words and then there's a there's a quote from an
1:16:11article about the University earlier that day I watched Draper change the
1:16:16agenda line for a planned activity a gathering of Draper you students and his
1:16:21daughter's college friends he changed it from mixer with sorority 20 a thon the
1:16:32private school is not accredited and never will be Draper says that's above
1:16:42we don't want to be put in 20 the actual University box so here's my favorite
1:16:53part and then have a question for you are you guys at the end of the session
1:16:58each student doesn't receive a dar es or again an actual degree every student
1:17:06receives a CA which stands for can you guess what CA stands for creative
1:17:15achievement that's a terrible guest John
1:17:18actually find yes stands for change agents which sounds like what a bullet
1:17:27turns into when its human catchable we we could have given John six months and
1:17:32he never would have thought of that because it's such bullshit that's right
1:17:35that's right you just proved yourself to be bullshit alright so here's my
1:17:43favorite part in lieu of diplomas jury peruse students receive masks and
1:17:51superhero capes printed
1:17:57said no
1:17:59they receive masks and capes printed with their superhero nicknames gets
1:18:07better and are instructed to jump on each of a series of three small
1:18:13trampolines placed in a line in front of them while band bouncing from
1:18:18trampolines trampoline they're told to shout up up and away then they assemble
1:18:27for a group photo
1:18:28what about it so why why are we doing this show instead of doing a show where
1:18:34all of us go there and videotape that would be great I also thought maybe we
1:18:37could do a Kickstarter we all send John to it again it's called University it's
1:18:49an eight week course of course they caused $10,000 which frankly is not that
1:18:55crazy from you get breakfast
1:18:58I thought maybe we could we could because actually the application
1:19:05deadline is true the application deadline for this summer
1:19:08order I think they call it even though that's a lie is tomorrow on the
1:19:13application by the application screen it's an online application there's one
1:19:18box it just says tell us a story which I love but then I realized that you have
1:19:26to be 18 to 26 to go there and I don't think like we could doctor know the fuck
1:19:35out of you with some makeup but I don't think there'd be enough to to make you
1:19:40look to make you look 26 yeah but then it got me thinking to look Draper you
1:19:47let's just work to combat that elements of bullshit text speech and
1:19:54entrepreneurial mumbo jumbo mumbojumbo I just said but I thought maybe well
1:20:04here's my dream my dream is this not Draper you my dream is grouper year
1:20:11Gruber University I don't know not have heroes but I don't know what they look
1:20:21like I thought maybe you guys could help me out with them I think like madmen
1:20:25University sure it's still called Draper University
1:20:30so there's a lot of drinking there's no suits tho morning classes now no morning
1:20:40classes have class you'll have class at two in the morning morning that's a good
1:20:50question I don't feel like I'm in a position to judge I feel like it's like
1:20:55you guys maybe but better ideas than me it was the curriculum anything outside
1:20:59of mythology is that pretty much the extent of it all other interests
1:21:08fund very good that's right
1:21:14went to school things you were at school newspaper you did all that students at
1:21:19the University universities gotta take you through that are like once he was a
1:21:25good student didn't belong to the newspaper and then you got a transition
1:21:29into the Don Draper oh yeah that's genius the groomer memorial rotunda that
1:21:36tells the story of your life from a young shitty kid middle aged man I i've
1:21:48been haunted my entire life by dreams and it's very common everybody else but
1:21:53dreams of school on preparedness exist you know in the dream it's exam day or
1:21:59there's a big homework assignment and it's got a blew it off but why would I
1:22:02blow it off until now it to do now
1:22:05yet and you know and it's a very unpleasant dream and I feel stressed out
1:22:09because when I was young I wanted to get good grades of cedras' it but I've
1:22:12started like in the last few years it's really mean the dream now and I don't
1:22:18care
1:22:22literally had a dream that I grew up my parents house is across the street from
1:22:26the elementary school I wanted literally across the street I had a dream that my
1:22:30high school's social studies teacher whose great great guy mr Joyce any toxic
1:22:36civics and stuff and and shifted high schoolers like a when cops come to your
1:22:40door to let me and we use that like high school parties to take no you cannot
1:22:46come in and nobody else knew that he was a great teacher and in my dream he's
1:22:54teaching in elementary school but it's in high school and he's just like and
1:23:00I'm there and its people are noisy and I'm annoyed
1:23:04mr Joyce I could use a fuckin drink and I said idk when my parents house across
1:23:08the street and he goes he'll be great and and I said what you wanna make it
1:23:14look like water ice cream I had and the dream I thought I was like no it's not
1:23:26my dreams of being in school now it's just me and my gal get a drink and i won
1:23:30across her in a funny thing is I got my good gin and tonic and he told me in a
1:23:34dream to me to put extra
1:23:36the teacher is my parents are gonna have jenin house in my dream world they do I
1:23:44think I would go visit them a lot more quickly quick aside somebody in the
1:23:49front some of your friend have an iPhone that they would be willing to use would
1:23:53you be willing to use it would you keep track of the grouper university core
1:23:58curriculum for us but see 99 attempt at 10 a.m. is blank
1:24:0510 to 2 p.m. is blank starting to 23 is Yankees
1:24:2232301 is Yankees 301 or 302 is that lady gets on matriculated grading evaluation
1:24:39of the students in jeopardy University you know what you said about you know
1:24:45used to care a lot about grades until you got smarter and realized you know so
1:24:49just forgive me this is this is this is a bit of a rest but probably not how
1:24:54many of you out there were a student's ok how many of you out there were see
1:25:01students this these students always have a way more fun reaction to them how many
1:25:08I would guess that on average and this is totally out of my ass on average see
1:25:15students probably do better in reality that he students because the seasons of
1:25:19themselves to the seasons were the ones who figured out that you don't have to
1:25:27do about eighty percent of what they assign you in school right so I think
1:25:32part of Draper university would just be you know you don't tell anybody this for
1:25:37a while and then like you know senior year whatever last week of it you take
1:25:42any everyone with a GPA above 3.0 and you get stale sorry that's brilliant
1:25:46million you wasted way too much time studying exactly thats you that
1:25:52everything we asked why didn't you question that you know that there I
1:25:57remember when he was the president and and you know famously was not the
1:26:03sharpest pencil in the box and didn't have a difficult school record there was
1:26:08actually news stories about that there is a correlation to achieving c-level
1:26:15positions in major Fortune 500 corporations and having extraordinarily
1:26:21mediocre scholastic records that
1:26:25there's even a phrase raise the gentleman see that you know that that as
1:26:30long as you put up a modicum of effort and you know you're not going to never
1:26:35show up for class you're going to show up and you're going to take the exam and
1:26:38feel terribly well at least give you a sea and that is the people who take
1:26:42advantage of that ruling might well wait a second
1:26:45the worst I can do is to see I can do nothing yeah i i'd never did homework I
1:26:51literally did 0 homework for my entire academic career and I always almost
1:26:56failed some classes here in there and got A's in the easy classes here and
1:27:00there and I came out ok I graduated so I think we can I think we can probably
1:27:06guess the dead that description does not apply to john gets like doing homework
1:27:12at all I just did enough to get A's but it at all
1:27:21did not want to do homework at all I thought it was an affront that I should
1:27:25ever have and now my son comes home and thinks it is like the worst injustice in
1:27:30the world that when he comes home from school to do but you're nobody would
1:27:36ever accuse you of being a Type A personality is I've gotta be
1:27:39valedictorian and salutatorian I'm gonna find a loophole where the valedictorian
1:27:44you know weird class and seventh-grade narrow four-point osha for 3.99 that's
1:27:52not you my report card every year for my whole life not working up the potential
1:27:57of all saved and everything but I don't think anybody's surprised by this I
1:28:05think comes very clear and and and your baseline of the minimum work to get an A
1:28:10and you probably did more work to figure out what the minimum mortgage to get a
1:28:14than the actual work that you did you probably knew exactly like subterfuge
1:28:20how many notes home can I hide my parents before our final on a CPAN
1:28:25module somewhere to calculate grades are you ever surprised by the report card as
1:28:30you know your great great I was with the nerds like valedictorian is my best
1:28:35friend with the nerds
1:28:37where you look where you are sir
1:28:46I'm the one who's gonna get beat out for sure you can pass I think Casey Casey to
1:28:54me you're a mystery man where did you fall on this kind of high school
1:28:58students when I was in grade school when I was in middle school
1:29:01total like I will do every bit of homework I'll ask for extra credit total
1:29:06freaking nerd and then around then around high school I realized I just
1:29:11don't fucking care I was a terror I was an OK high school student in marketing I
1:29:18i think could probably get into a pretty serious pissing match over who was the
1:29:21worse student in college but yet so then I just realized it's enough to get by
1:29:28and all that matters in the end of that I have a degree not a word was change
1:29:34agent certificate of authenticity whatever it was and that's all I need
1:29:38good college too much like Casey at a certain point I realized that that that
1:29:47stuff was an important and I stopped being as as rule following as I was for
1:29:53me that moment came when I was 37
1:29:57yeah
1:29:57yeah
1:30:00this is stupid I mean it's stupid it's different but hey you know for me it was
1:30:06it was the wrong thing and I finally lake was like ok I can I can jump out of
1:30:10this this path that I thought I had to be on my I was stressed throughout my
1:30:16college career because I I went to Drexel on Drexel stress as a slogan much
1:30:24I Draper UT Drexel has an official slogan it's we're right next to pen
1:30:28their slogan I i forget it we're told the story of this can be too long but
1:30:36that long story short is why I was ok student member I care about grades but I
1:30:41was an exceptionally talented test taker I i truly gifted at taking things like
1:30:46the s80 because it was like being in the matrix where I could see why they r
1:30:51asking the question I can't even answer but I can see clearly they mean see I
1:30:54don't understand what these words mean but i i i i cant understand ESET at a
1:30:59medal level and scored very very high this is in the early nineties before
1:31:03they scored them and let people get high grades but in like 10th grade I took the
1:31:09s80 as a test like this isn't for real for real next year and when you take the
1:31:16S et le she did back then you say what schools you want it sent to for free and
1:31:21I did hadn't done any research on where to go and I think basketball schools
1:31:24that I like I picked North Carolina villanova
1:31:27see recuse yeah I think all the Big East teams in and everybody but Duke in the
1:31:33ACC and i no intention of going into these schools and and there is still
1:31:38open slots and my friend who's with me is just window dressing was put down
1:31:42their cool and I got a really high score 14 20 and then they go to next year and
1:31:49I gotta 1460 and by that time though I knew I wanted to go and I had this list
1:31:54of schools and it was a lot more practical and drexel burnham listen bob
1:31:58and I thought I was going to Penn State and one day the phone rings and it's
1:32:01somebody is I got somebody from Drexel University and want to speak to John
1:32:05Gruber and I said yeah that's me and he said yes we'd like you to come to Drexel
1:32:08on a full-tuition scholarship and I said well what we have to do and I'd already
1:32:14been filling out all these essays for scholarships to other schools he was
1:32:17like can you play badminton they the answer was you you will you need to
1:32:23apply and I was like alright already I was like I was then then what
1:32:32and and that's it and there we are where we have a policy where if you scored a
1:32:391400 or higher on Oct you can come to Drexel for free on set
1:32:47it's a more efficient way to say it and and and I was like what that demon thats
1:32:53all I have to do is apply and then I go for free and they're like what is
1:32:57tuition accident do any research in early 1991 so it's a means by $50,000 a
1:33:03year now they're like it sixteen thousand dollars a year and as I can I'm
1:33:06penny of it and they're like yeah and I was like oh and I got the phone and my
1:33:10dad was like who is that and I was like I don't know if drexel I guess I'm going
1:33:13there was like I had that I don't know I would complicate you know where the
1:33:19money for colleges gets great damage caused this complicated thing where we
1:33:23will take out loans and all this stuff and in the only catch was ahead to keep
1:33:28a 3.0 grade-point average for my whole academic career feel it was very very
1:33:34stressful my first two years but then I start a new other people who had the
1:33:39scholarship and the backstory of it is that drexel is really well maybe the
1:33:43better now but when I was there they were really not a good school and had
1:33:46really low average safety scores they were like a safety school and so their
1:33:51idea for raising the average as a team score was will let people who score 1300
1:33:56or higher go for half tuition and 1,400 you go for free and so I ended up like
1:34:02i'd like six room aids in a big apartment on my end I half of this year
1:34:06there for free because we scored fourteen hundred and couldn't go to a
1:34:10good school cuz you can pay for it but then I figured out halfway through my my
1:34:14college career that there was a grace period on the GPA thing they don't just
1:34:20like you you fall to a 2.9 and they're like oh sorry if you go you you get like
1:34:25I don't you call it just just to note that daily curriculum 324 grace period I
1:34:37had a good time then finished with a three-point like 00000 to GPA it was
1:34:45incredibly close but I never did dip down and I never got the letter I think
1:34:50about this a lot especially having moved from the east coast to the west coast so
1:34:53it was on the East Coast also was the early nineties let you go to college
1:34:58it's just what you do obviously but then coming to the west coast and seeing all
1:35:03these people achieve amazing things without ever having gone to college and
1:35:08also watching college tuitions go from super expensive to what Kate in car for
1:35:17college tuition at compiling a really really nice car you can buy a nice car
1:35:21like the whole you might like four cores for the forty years so you could you buy
1:35:31for tests as for the classic goes to college costs as the market you'll find
1:35:37out how many people here went to college
1:35:42well we can't see said
1:35:45how many people graduated from college and how many people never went to
1:35:53college i love u guys in my view phone number there the people who got smart at
1:35:59an earlier age right so do you believe that college is necessary so for folks
1:36:04like this for four you know going in the world of like being a developer
1:36:09something like that do you need to go to college still I don't know I think you
1:36:13need to go to college if you think you do so that you can learn that you don't
1:36:17that's really profound advice but I totally can't believe it with those
1:36:26beats around your neck this lends me credibility among the youths right as I
1:36:31bought them though you did you say you don't get anything else whether to even
1:36:45talk about school and we will wrap up soon but schools great let school school
1:36:52is good for the lab stuff like it's good to learn how to drink in college to
1:36:58learn how to live by yourself for the first time that's nice
1:37:02adulthood element to it is it worth $60,000 a year no but while you know
1:37:09open kimono life story pointed out on the table I went to college ID I did not
1:37:14drink I started to drink slightly while I was in college but
1:37:20didn't really start drinking until my mid twenties I actually had a fairly
1:37:26similar experience I vividly remember it was one day over the summer before I'm
1:37:30about to go to college and college at Virginia Tech and and my dad sits me
1:37:34down my dad just just to note nobody applauded for Virginia it's alright on
1:37:40the other guys nobody gets me down and he put something in front of a camera
1:37:45wise and he says you need to drink this ok you're gonna drink more than 11 what
1:37:53is it and I took a little safe and God knows what it was and I probably showed
1:37:56up lol I was 18 because I never really had boost before and did that my dad
1:38:01basically SAT me down and said you're getting fuckin hammered tonight so this
1:38:05way when you go to school you know what this feels like and you will be ok
1:38:10hayseed ranked 11 melon teenies that it was easy on the team needs and why it
1:38:17was given million TVs showed up they also make you smoke a pack of cigarettes
1:38:22no no no that is not it out but now that that that was my first experience and
1:38:27then I know drank a little in college in and now now supposedly drunk me is
1:38:32somewhere in the audience so I'm told so therefore drunk AC out now on iTunes
1:38:36mystery mystery tweeter used to be a drunk driver account but then the guy
1:38:43stopped updating it that's erroneous it took him four went out for John Gruber
1:38:52is tried to guess which tweets of mine I tweeted while intoxicated and it was
1:39:05because he was pretty good but not that good it was like you know what it is
1:39:09pretty late but I'm actually stone cold sober tonight and I actually just
1:39:12tweeted you you never really were drinkers are now you got it out of high
1:39:22school teens meet the guy with a receding hairline get beer at the gas
1:39:30station and we would all drink senior Marcos high school saying there is a
1:39:40huge need those people
1:39:42bold move for the guy holding Marcos microbe pretty good one that I wasn't
1:39:50gonna have Casey come out of your for Casey with the same I'm glad of earn my
1:39:58keep after all I did not drink a link in high school I had friends who didn't get
1:40:04a parties and I was the official just in case the cops show up this is the guy
1:40:10paid attention to mr Joyce has class and knows how to deal with it
1:40:13guy yeah right down mister troika dream for 25 that's a class that's a that's a
1:40:20yes I'm talking about your dreams that you had about your high school teacher
1:40:25we explore what drunk john was like like I got drunk
1:40:31I shouldn't be surprised by this but that's terrible i guy just I envision
1:40:37like this really chipper happy like touchy-feely job hey man give me a hug
1:40:42it's all in your head now that's my dream that's my dream is meeting John
1:40:48John what was the high school drinking situation light where you went what is
1:40:51it like it go out in the woods type of situation with parents weren't home
1:40:56totally right what is wrong with those parents I mean now that we're adults and
1:41:03we're the parents the idea that I would leave maybe see like if you were my son
1:41:09that I know my house till you know when you've got the kid was gonna have a
1:41:14party when the parents better example in Paris but they were wrong because it's
1:41:18not like I made the party it's likely parents are home ok everyone go there I
1:41:22did not think that we would relate on anything my mother was she she she she
1:41:30met a man and she lived in Minnesota and so she would travel to visit him and she
1:41:36like well the house is yours take care of it and I was very similar like she
1:41:40just trusted me what a bad idea it was it was part it was a party every time
1:41:48she left it was crazy it was fun I pretty sure because of those parties I
1:41:54was voted most well-rounded in high school but that's the only thing that I
1:41:59didn't do sports so I think that was what it was for me so there's actually
1:42:04so I I was left alone all summer for most high school summers as it goes they
1:42:10forgot about ya and I am actually such a nerd and I didn't do anything bad I'm
1:42:16actually more of a nerd than John Siracusa on something nicer friends i
1:42:20mean out of people or bad influence on my own I was is roped into it
1:42:24area it's their phone you weren't left home for the whole summer yeah my mom is
1:42:29a teacher she would go upstate New York for the summer and I would go when I was
1:42:34younger than when I get older
1:42:36I don't wanna go there I wanted to stay with my friends in high school so yeah I
1:42:39was like you know 1718 alone all summer is also just at home like drinking soda
1:42:44playing video games pretty much yeah I was doing all this crap programming and
1:42:50although that's that's why that's how I got started programming and instead of
1:42:53being having a social life just like probably many of you out there I was I
1:42:59was doing that at that point you were in college and then you went to the actual
1:43:04knowledge to not really do anything productive so that was your college well
1:43:09yeah you college I I just found new ways to be a nerd you know just just more
1:43:14more I drank someone in college you know I have a very a very vivid memory for my
1:43:20freshman year of college dorm and my roommate was a guy went to high school
1:43:26with you is actually the guy who told me back in 10th grade to put Drexel and we
1:43:33you know when and I didn't take a random roommate at that seemed like a sucker
1:43:36move so as I got what we should be roommates even when we were best friends
1:43:39but I knew I could live with the guy he pledged fraternity a lot of the guys on
1:43:43my floor pledged fraternities and they went to these fraternity parties and I
1:43:47remember very specifically what the game was I stayed to play Leisure Suit Larry
1:43:52a big boobs right and I felt like I was being pretty bad out there are both in
1:44:02the game
1:44:024255 26 where we 56 Leisure Suit Larry a big boobs again later on time I don't
1:44:17know if you guys have anything else and myself are right where we wrap it up I
1:44:22would like to do some thanks a lot of people
1:44:26couple people
1:44:28that I would like to thank you Megan here and mezzanine and all staff and
1:44:33mezzanine what a great places is we did the show here last year I hope we do it
1:44:40again next year but what a great place it's just a great facility but the staff
1:44:44in the bar everything great so thanks to making everybody here at mezzanine Jesse
1:44:50char she helped reduce the show she's here in San Francisco she runs a place
1:44:58she runs the app design development job Pacific Pacific helm dot com they do
1:45:05great work there
1:45:06do such good work is probably hard to get in on it but if you need to end
1:45:09check out need somebody to help you design or develop an app check out
1:45:13pacific home great stuff I wanna give a special thank you to someone who should
1:45:19I think couple episodes ago but Caleb Sexton Caleb section is here helping
1:45:24with this with the audio make sure everything sounds good but he was he is
1:45:28at No radio and I should have thanked him couple episodes when I did the show
1:45:35in my hero and the last show that I did while the show is unreal like a love has
1:45:40been helping me with the talk show ever since I've taken it so low and
1:45:43everything good about the audio quality and the editing and finding funny little
1:45:50things to stick into the audio for two years
1:45:5399.97% of that is from Caleb section and I thank them two weeks ago but let me
1:46:00thank him tonight when he's here let's give it up for Caleb sex to my friend I
1:46:08want to thank our sponsors Microsoft for sponsoring this event Microsoft at
1:46:12checkout has your mobile services if you haven't looked at them they're great
1:46:15market circle with a great app stay late and billings pro and probably the
1:46:23biggest plus here but our our good friends at which sponsored the bar I
1:46:31forget
1:46:32the email company that cool guys who make it easy to do an email to a lot of
1:46:37people don't get it
1:46:38oh yeah Belgium now let's hear from you also shouldn't video tonight I don't
1:46:52know when it's gonna come out we're going to hopefully releases some point
1:46:55but couple of guys here from there put together a documentary called app the
1:47:02human story and it's a documentary about the rise of apps as a good thing that we
1:47:08care about and I even probably just like a word like the fact that everybody like
1:47:12in the developed world knows what happens now they have a website app
1:47:16documentary dot com
1:47:19gonna do a Kickstarter soon as not open yet but it's a really cool idea for a
1:47:23documentary I think it's really sort of story of the decade and tack they're
1:47:28here shooting video 22 so we have an archive of the show so let's hear it for
1:47:33them
1:47:34stay tuned a daring fireball out to eat when I have their Kickstarter
1:47:38and last but not least you for gentlemen Marco Arment Casey lists John Siracusa
1:47:44and Scott Simpson thank you
1:47:47and last but not least thanks to all of you for coming
1:47:53blows my mind that so many people come to see us be appearing be dummies
1:47:57leopard John's cool purple shirt has branched out give it to him what a
1:48:04delightful man John Gruber but for john is the best right
1:48:10Provost I think that the end of the show will call that will save the show's over
1:48:20where to post a plan I think we're technically supposed to be outta here by
1:48:24nine its ten have another I don't know if they close the bar I don't know but
1:48:29we don't have to rush hour let's calm and orderly if you want to chill if you
1:48:35want to check another drink have another drink it's all on MailChimp but thank
1:48:39you for coming but we gotta get out of here ten fifteen minute thanks