ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► I've had my AirPods Pro 2 now for, I mean,

00:00:03 ◼   ► how many weeks have they been shipping to people?

00:00:06 ◼   ► Like three or four weeks?

00:00:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, something like that.

00:00:08 ◼   ► - I learned yesterday how to do the volume gesture.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Have you done it?

00:00:13 ◼   ► - Don't you just swipe up and down?

00:00:14 ◼   ► - What do you mean learn?

00:00:15 ◼   ► The whole time, did you forget that the feature existed?

00:00:18 ◼   ► - No, so okay, here's what happened.

00:00:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:23 ◼   ► So I get them and I'm trying them out

00:00:26 ◼   ► and I couldn't get the volume gesture to work.

00:00:31 ◼   ► And one time I got it to work once,

00:00:34 ◼   ► and I just couldn't repeat it.

00:00:35 ◼   ► I'm like, are they broken?

00:00:37 ◼   ► Am I broken?

00:00:38 ◼   ► What's going on here?

00:00:40 ◼   ► But I had a lot of stuff going on,

00:00:43 ◼   ► and so I'm like, you know what,

00:00:44 ◼   ► at some point I'll be in an Apple store,

00:00:46 ◼   ► and I'll bring them in, I'll deal with it.

00:00:49 ◼   ► - I don't know why you're having trouble with this.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I'm sure there's clear markings on the outside

00:00:53 ◼   ► of the AirPods showing you exactly

00:00:54 ◼   ► to move your finger, right?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Or are they just white?

00:00:57 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:58 ◼   ► - It's probably just like dark white markings

00:01:01 ◼   ► on the white case.

00:01:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, there's actually two tiny arrows

00:01:04 ◼   ► and some words telling you start swiping here

00:01:06 ◼   ► and end swiping there, but they're a very, very,

00:01:10 ◼   ► very light gray and they're, you know, .025 point text.

00:01:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, so anyway, so I've been using them, you know,

00:01:19 ◼   ► just fine and I like them overall.

00:01:21 ◼   ► I think there's a little, there's a couple of bugs

00:01:22 ◼   ► with adaptive transparency, but overall I like them a lot.

00:01:25 ◼   ► The noise cancellation is amazingly better.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Like, and it was already pretty good before,

00:01:30 ◼   ► but it's really good now.

00:01:32 ◼   ► So anyway, I've been enjoying those,

00:01:34 ◼   ► but I just couldn't get the stupid volume gesture to work,

00:01:36 ◼   ► so I just thought like, maybe they're defective,

00:01:38 ◼   ► or maybe I'm, you know, I don't know what.

00:01:40 ◼   ► And then the other day, for some reason,

00:01:43 ◼   ► I decided to do it a little bit differently.

00:01:45 ◼   ► I don't even know why I tried this,

00:01:46 ◼   ► and then it started working, I'm like, oh my God.

00:01:49 ◼   ► All this time, like, now, so I've been doing it now

00:01:51 ◼   ► for like two days and it's perfect and flawless

00:01:54 ◼   ► and I was just doing it wrong.

00:01:55 ◼   ► So what I was doing was sliding both my thumb

00:02:00 ◼   ► and first finger up and down the stick,

00:02:05 ◼   ► almost to the point where you'd almost pull them out

00:02:07 ◼   ► and which at first I'm like,

00:02:09 ◼   ► this isn't a very useful gesture.

00:02:11 ◼   ► - Why were you doing that?

00:02:12 ◼   ► - I am not mature enough for this conversation.

00:02:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know, it's hard.

00:02:15 ◼   ► - Stay strong, stay strong.

00:02:17 ◼   ► No promises.

00:02:18 ◼   ► - But that just seemed logical.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Like, oh, you swipe, I don't know.

00:02:22 ◼   ► - But didn't you see the videos showing,

00:02:24 ◼   ► showing like the Apple marketing material

00:02:26 ◼   ► show people using this feature,

00:02:28 ◼   ► and they never grabbed the little stick

00:02:30 ◼   ► with their thumb and forefinger.

00:02:32 ◼   ► - Well, that was a long time ago,

00:02:34 ◼   ► and I haven't rewatched it, you know, so, anyway.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So that's what I was doing,

00:02:38 ◼   ► and I kept like almost pulling them out,

00:02:40 ◼   ► and I couldn't get it to work.

00:02:41 ◼   ► I'm like, this is just a stupid feature,

00:02:42 ◼   ► and it turns out what you're supposed to do is,

00:02:45 ◼   ► like leave your thumb,

00:02:46 ◼   ► like if you're using your right hand,

00:02:47 ◼   ► leave your thumb behind the stick to hold it in place

00:02:51 ◼   ► and swipe up and down like with your index finger

00:02:53 ◼   ► on the other side.

00:02:54 ◼   ► So like, so one finger's holding it

00:02:56 ◼   ► and only the other finger moves.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Oh my God, so much better.

00:03:01 ◼   ► - So which surface, to be clear,

00:03:02 ◼   ► which surface are you talking about?

00:03:03 ◼   ► Is it the surface that faces the way your eyeballs face?

00:03:05 ◼   ► Is it the surface that faces the way your ear holes face?

00:03:07 ◼   ► Which surface are you running your finger up and down?

00:03:09 ◼   ► - I am, the finger that is stationary is behind my ear

00:03:13 ◼   ► and this finger that is moving is the direction

00:03:15 ◼   ► that my eyeballs face.

00:03:16 ◼   ► It's like hitting that surface.

00:03:18 ◼   ► - Okay, so if I was looking straight at you

00:03:20 ◼   ► and if I was a product designer

00:03:21 ◼   ► that thought it might be important for the customer

00:03:23 ◼   ► to know where to move their finger,

00:03:24 ◼   ► they might put a black line such that when I was staring

00:03:27 ◼   ► at you head on, I would see two black lines coming down

00:03:29 ◼   ► the sides of your AirPods and those black lines

00:03:31 ◼   ► would be what you'd run your finger down.

00:03:33 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:03:34 ◼   ► - All right, so now you know.

00:03:35 ◼   ► - So anyway, that's how, for anyone else out there,

00:03:38 ◼   ► you know what, write in.

00:03:39 ◼   ► If you didn't know either, if you've been doing it wrong too,

00:03:41 ◼   ► I just wanna know if I'm the only one.

00:03:43 ◼   ► If you've been doing it right, I don't care.

00:03:44 ◼   ► I don't wanna hear from you.

00:03:45 ◼   ► probably everybody, but if for like the two people out there who have been doing it wrong

00:03:49 ◼   ► and who I just like, you know, blew your mind with how to do it correctly, please let me

00:03:52 ◼   ► know if there were any of you out there. There probably aren't.

00:03:56 ◼   ► Hey John, I hear something curious. It sounds... It sounded like a chicken, John.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Beautiful impression. Thank you. So, hey, it's that time of year again. The

00:04:09 ◼   ► ATP store is back, the ATP holiday season store, whatever you want to call it. And we

00:04:14 ◼   ► We have some exciting new merchandise for you this year.

00:04:17 ◼   ► As always, the URL is ATP.FM/store.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Run right there now and see what we've got.

00:04:24 ◼   ► And the most exciting thing we have for you

00:04:26 ◼   ► is a brand new product this year that started,

00:04:29 ◼   ► let me see, I wrote this down somewhere.

00:04:31 ◼   ► In November of 2021, we were contacted by Dan at Studio Neat

00:04:36 ◼   ► maker of many fine products that you may have heard of,

00:04:39 ◼   ► studioneat.com.

00:04:42 ◼   ► And he said, "Hey, I heard you talking about

00:04:44 ◼   ► your chicken hat on the episode."

00:04:46 ◼   ► This was a recent episode in 2021.

00:04:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:49 ◼   ► And I gave him an idea.

00:04:50 ◼   ► What do you think about the idea

00:04:52 ◼   ► of trying to replicate that chicken hat?

00:04:53 ◼   ► Studio Neat makes all sorts of products.

00:04:56 ◼   ► So they have expertise in this area.

00:04:57 ◼   ► And I said, "All right, sure, we could try that."

00:05:01 ◼   ► And it has more or less taken this long

00:05:03 ◼   ► to get everything together.

00:05:05 ◼   ► You know, obviously COVID supply chain, blah, blah, blah.

00:05:08 ◼   ► But we went through a process

00:05:10 ◼   ► over the course of several months,

00:05:11 ◼   ► I guess more than a year now of sourcing materials and comparing to my original one and only

00:05:18 ◼   ► chicken hat to try to make a reproduction of my personal chicken hat.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Now there are many caveats to this, okay?

00:05:24 ◼   ► Many things to consider.

00:05:25 ◼   ► For people who don't know the story, my chicken hat is a winter hat that I really like and

00:05:29 ◼   ► I was musing on a show apparently in 2021 that I just have this one hat and if I lose

00:05:33 ◼   ► this hat I can't buy another one like it and I never see anything like it in the store

00:05:37 ◼   ► anymore and there are multiple things that make this hat unique, not to rehash everything

00:05:41 ◼   ► I said there but it's kind of a weird shape. Dan has a post about it at student

00:05:44 ◼   ► meet we'll put a link to his blog post as well. You got to see a picture of me

00:05:47 ◼   ► wearing the hat. He says it's you can't find hats of this shape. You can find

00:05:51 ◼   ► hats of this shape but you can't find hats that are both this shape and also

00:05:54 ◼   ► this construction constructed in this way of this material right I just never

00:05:59 ◼   ► seen anything like it I'm always buying hats trying to be replacement for this hat

00:06:03 ◼   ► I can't do it so now he essentially made one of my own. Now my hat that's like

00:06:07 ◼   ► this my chicken hat is over 20 years old I can't put an exact date on it but I did

00:06:12 ◼   ► find photos showing it's at least 20 years old. It's been through the

00:06:15 ◼   ► wash many times. I'm sure it has changed size over the course of 20 years I'm

00:06:21 ◼   ► going through the wash how could it not right but that's where we're at right so

00:06:25 ◼   ► we made a chicken hat reproduction that exactly matches the size the current

00:06:30 ◼   ► size of my chicken hat. I have no idea how big this hat was when I started making it. 20 years of

00:06:36 ◼   ► being stretched out, basically.

00:06:38 ◼   ► - Or shrinking in the dryer, I don't know.

00:06:41 ◼   ► All right, second thing, that my chicken hat

00:06:44 ◼   ► is one size fits all.

00:06:45 ◼   ► It says it right on the tag inside the hat.

00:06:47 ◼   ► So I don't have a small hat, a medium hat, a large hat.

00:06:49 ◼   ► This hat was sold in whatever year I bought it

00:06:51 ◼   ► as one size fits all.

00:06:53 ◼   ► So the hat we made is one size fits all.

00:06:56 ◼   ► It is exactly the same size, like you could lay it,

00:06:59 ◼   ► 'cause I went through several prototypes,

00:07:00 ◼   ► you can lay this hat down on top of my hat,

00:07:03 ◼   ► they are exactly the same size.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Is that good? Is that bad? I don't know.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Now, another thing. We went through materials.

00:07:11 ◼   ► And this unique folks sent me many, many stacks of, like,

00:07:14 ◼   ► Felty-type materials from the same company that makes it.

00:07:16 ◼   ► We figured that Polartec made the material for my hat,

00:07:19 ◼   ► so we were talking to Polartec to get their list of materials.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Nobody makes exactly the same materials this hat is made of,

00:07:25 ◼   ► which isn't surprising since it was made more than 20 years ago, right?

00:07:28 ◼   ► But we got as close as we could.

00:07:30 ◼   ► But as close as we could is different than this hat

00:07:33 ◼   ► than this hat in a couple of specific ways.

00:07:36 ◼   ► One, it is definitely thinner than my hat, which I think, for people who are considering

00:07:42 ◼   ► buying this, is a bonus because my hat is extremely thick and extremely hot and most

00:07:46 ◼   ► people would not want to wear it because on a day that's not, you know, negative 20 degrees,

00:07:51 ◼   ► you get hot and sweaty in it.

00:07:53 ◼   ► So this one is thinner, but I think that's an advantage.

00:07:55 ◼   ► And the second thing is, my hat, after 20 years of going through the dryer, feels a

00:07:59 ◼   ► little tight on my head.

00:08:01 ◼   ► This reproduction hat, which is exactly the same size

00:08:04 ◼   ► when you lay them on top of each other,

00:08:05 ◼   ► does not feel as tight because the material is not as thick

00:08:08 ◼   ► so it gives more.

00:08:09 ◼   ► So I'm hoping it will fit more people with big heads.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I don't know about people with small heads,

00:08:13 ◼   ► I don't know how much of this one's gonna shrink.

00:08:14 ◼   ► What will this hat look like in 20 years?

00:08:16 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:17 ◼   ► But we did the best we could with the material we have,

00:08:19 ◼   ► which is we've got the one hat

00:08:21 ◼   ► and we reproduced it as closely as possible.

00:08:23 ◼   ► I wish I had taken up some better photos

00:08:24 ◼   ► of like my hat and this hat laying on top of each other.

00:08:27 ◼   ► The seams line up, the construction is the same way,

00:08:29 ◼   ► Every dimension is identical,

00:08:31 ◼   ► and it is as close to the same material as we could get.

00:08:34 ◼   ► I spared the world the exact matching of the color

00:08:38 ◼   ► because my hat is kind of a forest green.

00:08:41 ◼   ► I don't know why it's that color.

00:08:42 ◼   ► I don't think I even picked this hat.

00:08:43 ◼   ► My dad might've originally bought it,

00:08:44 ◼   ► and I could have stolen it from him.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Why is my hat green?

00:08:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:48 ◼   ► We could have made this one green, but we didn't.

00:08:50 ◼   ► So we had mercy on people who might consider buying this

00:08:53 ◼   ► as a joke or whatever.

00:08:54 ◼   ► It is black.

00:08:55 ◼   ► The ATP Chicken Hat is black.

00:08:57 ◼   ► That goes with more stuff, and it also matches our logo.

00:08:59 ◼   ► We got a little tag on the side that has our logo on it.

00:09:01 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:09:04 ◼   ► We didn't know how many of these things we would sell

00:09:06 ◼   ► as a joke or whatever.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Does anyone wanna wear a chicken hat?

00:09:09 ◼   ► Does anyone wear winter hats at all?

00:09:11 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:09:12 ◼   ► But we had to guess at how many we might sell

00:09:15 ◼   ► and then we had to calculate how many we would have to sell

00:09:17 ◼   ► to make up, these are the type we buy ahead of time, right?

00:09:20 ◼   ► So we have to sell a certain number of these

00:09:21 ◼   ► even just to break even.

00:09:22 ◼   ► So please, if you're even remotely inclined to buy this hat,

00:09:25 ◼   ► please do so we don't lose money on them.

00:09:28 ◼   ► to find out that no one in the world wants chicken hats.

00:09:30 ◼   ► - Otherwise John will have to buy hundreds

00:09:32 ◼   ► and hundreds of chicken hats.

00:09:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, otherwise I'll, yeah, I've now made hundreds

00:09:35 ◼   ► of backup hats myself.

00:09:36 ◼   ► - Which itself might be a fun bit for the show.

00:09:38 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:09:39 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:09:40 ◼   ► On the flip side of that, if everybody wants to get this,

00:09:43 ◼   ► 'cause it's a funny joke and you could say,

00:09:44 ◼   ► "Hey, look at my funny chicken hat,"

00:09:45 ◼   ► they could all sell out by tomorrow and then sorry,

00:09:48 ◼   ► 'cause we're not, you know, probably,

00:09:49 ◼   ► we don't have the ability to make more

00:09:51 ◼   ► of these instantaneously.

00:09:51 ◼   ► If they do sell out and there seems to be more demand,

00:09:53 ◼   ► maybe we'll do it next year,

00:09:54 ◼   ► but probably this is a one-time thing.

00:09:56 ◼   ► So if you want an ATP chicken hat,

00:09:58 ◼   ► I think they're good hats.

00:09:59 ◼   ► I think the chicken shape is a valuable shape.

00:10:01 ◼   ► I think it's distinctive.

00:10:02 ◼   ► And I think this is a comfortable hat and it's nice.

00:10:04 ◼   ► And I think, again, the fact that it is thinner

00:10:06 ◼   ► than my really, really thick hat is an advantage,

00:10:09 ◼   ► not a disadvantage, because almost everybody

00:10:10 ◼   ► who has ever seen or tried on my hat says,

00:10:12 ◼   ► "I could never wear this, it would be too hot."

00:10:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:10:15 ◼   ► So that's the chicken hat.

00:10:17 ◼   ► - That is the chicken hat.

00:10:18 ◼   ► I am genuinely so glad and thankful

00:10:21 ◼   ► that Dan and the Studio&E team were able to,

00:10:23 ◼   ► were willing to reach out and deal with you,

00:10:26 ◼   ► who must be the world's worst client.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I say that with love, but nevertheless.

00:10:31 ◼   ► - I got many different samples,

00:10:32 ◼   ► but it was clear which direction we were going.

00:10:35 ◼   ► That's the other thing.

00:10:36 ◼   ► When you're comparing, like I get little fabric squares,

00:10:37 ◼   ► right, when you're comparing them,

00:10:39 ◼   ► I'm comparing them to a 20-year-old hat

00:10:40 ◼   ► that's been through the wash a million times.

00:10:42 ◼   ► It's not gonna be the same with a brand new fabric sample.

00:10:44 ◼   ► I don't know what these fabric samples

00:10:45 ◼   ► are gonna look like for 20 years in the wash,

00:10:47 ◼   ► so you just gotta do the best you can.

00:10:49 ◼   ► But there was some clear winners towards the end.

00:10:51 ◼   ► It was down to one or two options,

00:10:52 ◼   ► and I think we picked the right one.

00:10:54 ◼   ► So there you go, that's the chicken hat.

00:10:55 ◼   ► We also have an M2 shirt.

00:10:59 ◼   ► It's like the M1 shirt,

00:11:00 ◼   ► but it has one more number on the front.

00:11:02 ◼   ► The chip on the back is in fact the M2,

00:11:03 ◼   ► it is not the M1 chip on the back.

00:11:05 ◼   ► It's the same as we've always done.

00:11:06 ◼   ► We've got the horrendously expensive one

00:11:09 ◼   ► with the chip on the back and the rainbow colors

00:11:10 ◼   ► in the front that takes like eight printing passes to make.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And then we have the monochrome one that is less expensive.

00:11:15 ◼   ► And speaking of costs, last time we had a sale,

00:11:18 ◼   ► we said that our prices were going,

00:11:20 ◼   ► our cost to us was going up in all these things

00:11:22 ◼   ► because of, you know, who knows, whatever.

00:11:25 ◼   ► but we were keeping the prices the same,

00:11:26 ◼   ► but that probably wouldn't continue.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Well, this is the part where it doesn't continue

00:11:29 ◼   ► because we held the prices down on the last sale.

00:11:32 ◼   ► I hope you enjoyed them.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Now the price of pretty much everything is increased

00:11:36 ◼   ► because the cost to us is increased.

00:11:37 ◼   ► And we haven't passed on all of the cost to us.

00:11:39 ◼   ► We have passed on some of it though.

00:11:41 ◼   ► So we apologize for the high prices,

00:11:43 ◼   ► but if we had kept the prices the same,

00:11:45 ◼   ► there are some products in our lineup

00:11:46 ◼   ► that we would literally be losing money on

00:11:47 ◼   ► every one we sold.

00:11:48 ◼   ► So we actually had to increase the prices.

00:11:51 ◼   ► We know it sucks.

00:11:52 ◼   ► You know, what can I tell you?

00:11:54 ◼   ► It is what it is.

00:11:55 ◼   ► That's why we do things like the monochrome shirt,

00:11:57 ◼   ► because the monochrome shirt is less expensive

00:11:58 ◼   ► than the other one,

00:11:59 ◼   ► 'cause we have to do fewer printing passes,

00:12:00 ◼   ► so consider that if you wanna save money.

00:12:02 ◼   ► And of course we have our regular ATP shirt

00:12:04 ◼   ► that we always have.

00:12:05 ◼   ► We have the ATP hoodie, which is still fantastic.

00:12:07 ◼   ► It's kind of like the chicken hat.

00:12:08 ◼   ► I kind of dread the day that the ATP hoodie goes away,

00:12:11 ◼   ► because I think they're great.

00:12:12 ◼   ► My kids really love them.

00:12:14 ◼   ► It's a great hoodie.

00:12:15 ◼   ► And of course we got the pint glass

00:12:16 ◼   ► that we're still selling through, believe it or not.

00:12:18 ◼   ► Still got some pint glasses left over.

00:12:20 ◼   ► - I don't understand how.

00:12:21 ◼   ► I love the pint glass.

00:12:23 ◼   ► It's like my only glass that I regularly use at home.

00:12:26 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:12:27 ◼   ► - My family loves them.

00:12:27 ◼   ► We ordered four more on the last sale, I think.

00:12:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I have a total of like six or eight now

00:12:31 ◼   ► because I got like two the first time,

00:12:33 ◼   ► realized that was nowhere near enough,

00:12:35 ◼   ► and then ordered another like four or six

00:12:37 ◼   ► or something like that.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - Yep, and then finally, the most exciting thing,

00:12:40 ◼   ► the ATP mug with the red lining is back.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Last time we had to get it with the gray lining

00:12:44 ◼   ► 'cause we literally couldn't get the one

00:12:45 ◼   ► with the red lining,

00:12:46 ◼   ► and I think the gray lining looks nice too,

00:12:48 ◼   ► and I hope everybody who wants to have a more chill mug

00:12:50 ◼   ► got the gray lining ones last time,

00:12:51 ◼   ► but the red ones, the red ones are back

00:12:54 ◼   ► and only the red ones.

00:12:55 ◼   ► And again, these are the type of,

00:12:57 ◼   ► the mugs are the type of thing where we have to guess

00:12:59 ◼   ► how many we're gonna sell and we buy them all ahead of time.

00:13:00 ◼   ► So fingers crossed on the mugs.

00:13:03 ◼   ► We've got mugs, we've got pint glasses, hoodies, t-shirts,

00:13:06 ◼   ► and of course the chicken hat.

00:13:07 ◼   ► So if you're, oh, this sale runs until Sunday, November 13th.

00:13:12 ◼   ► We try to do the sales early as possible

00:13:15 ◼   ► to have a hope of getting shipments out before the holidays.

00:13:19 ◼   ► Hopefully it will all work out.

00:13:21 ◼   ► no guarantees obviously, but we're gonna do our best there.

00:13:24 ◼   ► And if you are listening to the show

00:13:26 ◼   ► and you would like someone to buy you one of these things

00:13:29 ◼   ► as a holiday present, you have to send them the URL.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Like you can't be subtle about it.

00:13:34 ◼   ► The sale only runs until November 13th.

00:13:37 ◼   ► You have to send the link and say,

00:13:39 ◼   ► hey, you have three weeks to buy me something

00:13:41 ◼   ► from this store, here's what I want.

00:13:42 ◼   ► You can't be subtle about it.

00:13:43 ◼   ► Don't just hope your significant other

00:13:46 ◼   ► is going to hear you listening to the podcast

00:13:48 ◼   ► and say, oh, that's a great idea.

00:13:49 ◼   ► I should get one of those things.

00:13:50 ◼   ► just give them the link, right?

00:13:52 ◼   ► 'Cause people wanna know what they wanted to buy for you.

00:13:53 ◼   ► And if you want some of this weird nerdy stuff,

00:13:55 ◼   ► they're not gonna guess,

00:13:56 ◼   ► they're not gonna find it on their own.

00:13:57 ◼   ► We have no SEO, our only SEO is you.

00:14:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:14:01 ◼   ► ATP.fm/store.

00:14:03 ◼   ► - Also, Jon, if you wanted to save a little money,

00:14:08 ◼   ► how would you go about doing that?

00:14:10 ◼   ► - Yes, that's right.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I almost forgot about that, thank you, Casey.

00:14:12 ◼   ► If you are an ATP member, as always,

00:14:14 ◼   ► you get 15% off everything in the store.

00:14:17 ◼   ► If you're not an ATP member, you can become an ATP member

00:14:20 ◼   ► and get that 50% off and it's pretty easy,

00:14:23 ◼   ► due to the high prices, everything in the stupid store,

00:14:25 ◼   ► to make up the cost of membership for one month

00:14:28 ◼   ► in the savings that you get.

00:14:29 ◼   ► So as always, you can do the thing

00:14:31 ◼   ► where you become a member for one month,

00:14:33 ◼   ► you get your 50% off, you buy a bunch of t-shirts,

00:14:36 ◼   ► and then when the month is over,

00:14:37 ◼   ► you cancel your membership.

00:14:38 ◼   ► We make it very easy to do that.

00:14:40 ◼   ► It's like the good services

00:14:42 ◼   ► that use the iCloud subscribe page.

00:14:43 ◼   ► It's really easy to sign up, watch Elasso,

00:14:45 ◼   ► and unsubscribe, and sign up again

00:14:46 ◼   ► and watch something and unsubscribe.

00:14:47 ◼   ► You can do that with ATP membership.

00:14:49 ◼   ► We don't start a mission with that, but it can be done.

00:14:52 ◼   ► It's really easy to do.

00:14:53 ◼   ► We know that people do it.

00:14:54 ◼   ► So there it is.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Don't, like, if you're, honestly,

00:14:57 ◼   ► if you're gonna buy literally anything in the store,

00:14:58 ◼   ► just become a member, get the discount.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Like it's almost not worth it to, you know, anyway.

00:15:03 ◼   ► At top of the page, it has links to do all that stuff.

00:15:06 ◼   ► 15% off for all members.

00:15:07 ◼   ► And if you are a member, go to your member page,

00:15:09 ◼   ► grab your coupon code, and put it in the promo code field

00:15:12 ◼   ► during checkout at the Cotton Bureau site,

00:15:14 ◼   ► and you will get 15% off.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Please, I beg you, this is the time where I have to make the speech, and without fail,

00:15:22 ◼   ► every year somebody reaches out, "Oh, you were right, you were right."

00:15:26 ◼   ► So here's the thing, especially if you're looking for a chicken hat, a mug, or a glass,

00:15:31 ◼   ► because those things are, there are a limited amount of them.

00:15:35 ◼   ► But even for the shirts, you don't want to miss out.

00:15:37 ◼   ► For the hoodie, you don't want to miss out on the hoodie.

00:15:39 ◼   ► It's a freaking delightful hoodie.

00:15:40 ◼   ► So if you're not in a position to order right now at ATP.fm/store, think about the next

00:15:46 ◼   ► time you can.

00:15:47 ◼   ► Maybe it's at your desk at work, if you're going back to work.

00:15:50 ◼   ► Maybe it's your desk at home.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Maybe it's once you get to the place you're driving right now or walking or what have

00:15:56 ◼   ► you or bicycling.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Think and vision.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Put yourself in that place and think to yourself, "I need to treat myself and go to ATP.fm/store

00:16:06 ◼   ► when I get to that place."

00:16:08 ◼   ► You don't need to stop walking, particularly if you're in Manhattan.

00:16:11 ◼   ► Don't stop walking.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Just go where you're going.

00:16:13 ◼   ► You don't need to stop in the middle of the road.

00:16:14 ◼   ► You don't even need to pull over necessarily, but envision the place you're going and go

00:16:18 ◼   ► to ATP.fm/store and buy yourself a chicken hat or a mug or a glass or one of the shirts

00:16:25 ◼   ► or hoodies or what have you.

00:16:26 ◼   ► Do that.

00:16:27 ◼   ► Make everyone happy.

00:16:28 ◼   ► But also remember to go to ATP.fm/join and join if you haven't already.

00:16:32 ◼   ► And unlike what Jon says, you have mine and Marco's

00:16:36 ◼   ► full permission to forget to cancel your membership.

00:16:39 ◼   ► That is totally okay.

00:16:41 ◼   ► We are okay with that, Marco and I, maybe not Jon,

00:16:43 ◼   ► but Marco and I are okay with you forgetting to cancel.

00:16:45 ◼   ► - It's not about forgetting to cancel,

00:16:46 ◼   ► it's about once you have the membership

00:16:48 ◼   ► and you start listening to the show without ads,

00:16:49 ◼   ► or you enjoyed the bootleg or something like that,

00:16:51 ◼   ► or you hear the member special content

00:16:54 ◼   ► with our three ATP movie club things,

00:16:56 ◼   ► you're like, "Hey, membership is actually kinda good."

00:16:58 ◼   ► That's why you keep doing it,

00:16:59 ◼   ► because it provides value to you.

00:17:00 ◼   ► Because when you go back to the regular feed,

00:17:02 ◼   ► and it's not as good anymore.

00:17:03 ◼   ► So yeah, stay a member for that reason, I hope.

00:17:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, definitely.

00:17:07 ◼   ► All right, we will remind you just a couple more times

00:17:09 ◼   ► and that'll be that.

00:17:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, we do structure these sales

00:17:12 ◼   ► so we have three episodes where we can remind you.

00:17:14 ◼   ► That's how we arrange the dates, just FYI.

00:17:16 ◼   ► And speaking of like not missing out on things,

00:17:19 ◼   ► there's missing out on the sale, which is like,

00:17:20 ◼   ► oh, I forgot about the sale and now it's over

00:17:22 ◼   ► because you're like on November 15th,

00:17:23 ◼   ► you're like, oh no, I missed it, right?

00:17:25 ◼   ► But I can tell you inventory wise,

00:17:27 ◼   ► the thing we have the least number of is the pint glasses

00:17:29 ◼   ► and we are not ordering any more of them.

00:17:31 ◼   ► So if you really want a pint glass, get that ASAP.

00:17:34 ◼   ► The second least number of things we have

00:17:35 ◼   ► are mugs and chicken hats.

00:17:37 ◼   ► So if you were interested in mug, chicken hat,

00:17:39 ◼   ► or pint glasses, just order it now so you don't miss out.

00:17:42 ◼   ► I'm not sure that we're gonna sell out of all these things,

00:17:44 ◼   ► but better safe than sorry.

00:17:45 ◼   ► And the other ones are print on demand.

00:17:47 ◼   ► We see how many we buy and then we print that many of them.

00:17:49 ◼   ► So the only thing you have to worry about for the shirts

00:17:51 ◼   ► and the hoodie is buying before the sale ends on November 13th.

00:17:55 ◼   ► - Yep, please and thank you.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Let's do some follow up.

00:17:59 ◼   ► A couple episodes ago, I believe it was,

00:18:01 ◼   ► I was going and waxing poetic about how much I love my new Sonos setup, and I got a Costco

00:18:07 ◼   ► flyer in the physical snail mail, I think it was yesterday or the day before, where

00:18:12 ◼   ► I noticed that a couple of the items that I purchased are actually going to be on sale

00:18:16 ◼   ► at Costco right after our sale ends, coincidentally.

00:18:20 ◼   ► The Sonos Arc that I have, kind of, and I'll explain in a second, is going to be on sale

00:18:28 ◼   ► for $700, normally retails for $900.

00:18:30 ◼   ► There is a catch there, we'll come back to that in a sec.

00:18:33 ◼   ► The One SL, which is a speaker that you can use either singularly or in a stereo pair,

00:18:38 ◼   ► but what I did is, and this is what Sonos often recommends, is I used them as my rear

00:18:42 ◼   ► speakers.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Those are going down from $400 to $300.

00:18:46 ◼   ► Now, one catch, all of these, the ARC and the One SL, it's actually an ARC SL and a

00:18:52 ◼   ► One SL.

00:18:53 ◼   ► SL, I don't know what it actually stands for, but what it means in Sonos speak is it does

00:18:56 ◼   ► does not have any sort of microphone or voice recognition,

00:19:00 ◼   ► which in some ways is a feature, not a bug.

00:19:03 ◼   ► But I will say that Sonos's voice control

00:19:07 ◼   ► is really, really good, and I think we spoke briefly

00:19:09 ◼   ► about it an episode or two ago,

00:19:10 ◼   ► that it's actually Gus Spring, or whatever,

00:19:12 ◼   ► what's the guy's name, from Breaking Bad?

00:19:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, the actor who plays Gus Spring.

00:19:17 ◼   ► I forget the actor's name.

00:19:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, same, but anyway, he does the voice,

00:19:19 ◼   ► which is kind of funny, and it's actually really,

00:19:21 ◼   ► really good, because as far as I'm aware,

00:19:23 ◼   ► it's all local on device, so it doesn't do anything

00:19:26 ◼   ► complex, but in terms of like, you know, turn it up, turn it down, stop playback,

00:19:29 ◼   ► join, such and such, etc. It's really, really good. And I like having it on my

00:19:33 ◼   ► ARC, because I do not have the ARC SL, I have just the ARC. Again, SL means no

00:19:38 ◼   ► voice control. But for what it's worth, the ARC goes down 200 bucks, the ONE goes

00:19:42 ◼   ► down 100 bucks, and actually I believe that's for a pair of ONES. I'm sorry, I

00:19:47 ◼   ► didn't say that earlier. So it's two of the rear speakers goes from $400 to $300,

00:19:52 ◼   ► and one of the soundbars goes from 900 to 700

00:19:55 ◼   ► if you happen to be near an American Costco.

00:19:57 ◼   ► I just wanted you to be aware.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Then we got some fascinating feedback from Andrew Chase.

00:20:03 ◼   ► Andrew is a pilot for a major American airline

00:20:05 ◼   ► and he wanted to share some things.

00:20:07 ◼   ► So he said, "I wanna share with you

00:20:09 ◼   ► some things regarding personal electronic devices.

00:20:11 ◼   ► The FAA and airlines started really evaluating

00:20:14 ◼   ► the threat of battery fires once Samsung had their phone

00:20:16 ◼   ► that was routinely catching fire.

00:20:18 ◼   ► I don't know how many, but there were several incidents

00:20:20 ◼   ► as a result of defective Samsung devices.

00:20:22 ◼   ► There have been other issues where devices

00:20:23 ◼   ► have been either crushed by the seats

00:20:25 ◼   ► or in the overhead bins.

00:20:27 ◼   ► The pilots on this particular airline

00:20:29 ◼   ► each have an 11-inch iPad Pro,

00:20:31 ◼   ► and all of our flight attendants have large screen iPhones.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Andrew couldn't remember exactly which model.

00:20:35 ◼   ► The threat is so great that we have to carry

00:20:37 ◼   ► two thermal containment bags and fire-retardant gloves.

00:20:42 ◼   ► We have one bag large enough to fit our iPads

00:20:45 ◼   ► that we keep on the flight deck,

00:20:46 ◼   ► and there's another bag kept in the passenger cabin

00:20:48 ◼   ► that can hold up to a 17-inch laptop.

00:20:51 ◼   ► And there's a picture that has been attached

00:20:53 ◼   ► that hopefully will be the chapter art in the MP3.

00:20:57 ◼   ► I find this fascinating.

00:20:59 ◼   ► This is all, I'm sorry, I forgot to establish context.

00:21:01 ◼   ► This is all with regard to,

00:21:03 ◼   ► don't reach in between the seats to get your phone.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Step aside and let the flight attendant handle it for you.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Well, this is why, because these things,

00:21:12 ◼   ► apparently there's a real honest-to-goodness fear

00:21:14 ◼   ► that something will catch on fire.

00:21:15 ◼   ► I just found this absolutely fascinating.

00:21:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, I do wonder if people would be able

00:21:19 ◼   ► to get to those materials in time,

00:21:21 ◼   ► if there's a device that catches fire.

00:21:22 ◼   ► I don't know if you've ever seen those videos online

00:21:24 ◼   ► of what it looks like when a lithium-ion battery goes up.

00:21:27 ◼   ► It goes up fast, then it goes up big.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Of course you need the gloves,

00:21:30 ◼   ► 'cause it's not like you can grab this thing

00:21:32 ◼   ► and put it in the fire bag or whatever.

00:21:34 ◼   ► So first you need the gloves, then you need the bag,

00:21:36 ◼   ► and then you need the wherewithal

00:21:37 ◼   ► to grab this thing with the gloves.

00:21:39 ◼   ► You think, "Oh, so what?

00:21:40 ◼   ► "I have the gloves on, they protect me from the fire."

00:21:42 ◼   ► Watch the videos.

00:21:43 ◼   ► You probably don't wanna come with an arm's length

00:21:44 ◼   ► of something that's going off like one of these things.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Then you put it in the bag, then presumably you seal up the bag, I guess, so the flames

00:21:50 ◼   ► don't shoot everywhere.

00:21:51 ◼   ► Anyway, firearm planes, no good.

00:21:53 ◼   ► Do not want.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Can you tell me about apple mouse shape history, please?

00:21:59 ◼   ► I can, but first some real-time follow-up from someone in the chat room was asking,

00:22:02 ◼   ► "It's hard to tell what the chicken hat might look like on someone's head.

00:22:04 ◼   ► In fact, if you've never experienced a hat like this, you might be wondering, 'How do

00:22:07 ◼   ► I even wear it?

00:22:08 ◼   ► Which direction does it face on my head?'"

00:22:10 ◼   ► So if you go to the show notes for this episode, you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.

00:22:16 ◼   ► will see a link to the Studio Neat blog post about this collaboration and in the

00:22:21 ◼   ► Studio Neat blog post it's a picture of me wearing the hat at some point in the

00:22:24 ◼   ► fairly distant past and I'm not wearing this hat I'm wearing my original hat but

00:22:28 ◼   ► as I said this hat if you lay it down on top of my original hat exactly lines up

00:22:33 ◼   ► in every feature so the photo is accurate just imagine the hat being not

00:22:38 ◼   ► that color green and imagine you know me being a lot older than I am in that

00:22:43 ◼   ► picture. Tell me about mouse shapes. Yeah so this is about, Marco was talking about how he loves the

00:22:49 ◼   ► the current Apple Sushi mouse and you know it's a high quality mouse and he likes the shape of it

00:22:54 ◼   ► he likes the features and who I was listening back to the show as I do I was reminded of I thought I'd

00:22:59 ◼   ► even said this in the show but I guess I didn't I was reminded of my various Apple mouse loves

00:23:06 ◼   ► over the years right so the very first mouse I ever used was the mouse on the original Macintosh

00:23:11 ◼   ► in 1984, which was basically a box

00:23:13 ◼   ► with the corners knocked off the top edge.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Extremely, I'm extremely boxy.

00:23:19 ◼   ► It was a box, right?

00:23:20 ◼   ► And the contemporary mice on other systems

00:23:24 ◼   ► were also similar, like it was easier to make a box

00:23:27 ◼   ► with a mouse ball in it and a button on it or whatever,

00:23:29 ◼   ► but it had some style, it had some panache,

00:23:31 ◼   ► but I think that first mouse basically dictated

00:23:35 ◼   ► how I would use a mouse for the rest of my life.

00:23:38 ◼   ► because it was a box, it's got, you know, it's a rectangle,

00:23:41 ◼   ► it's got flat sides, right?

00:23:43 ◼   ► And that's why I grip the mouse with my thumb

00:23:47 ◼   ► and my like, pinky and ring finger

00:23:50 ◼   ► on opposing sides of the mouse

00:23:52 ◼   ► with two fingers on top of it, right?

00:23:54 ◼   ► Because the flat sides let you do that.

00:23:56 ◼   ► And so any mouse that does not have a flat side

00:23:58 ◼   ► for me to grip in that way feels weird to me

00:24:00 ◼   ► because that's what I'm always trying to do.

00:24:01 ◼   ► If you try to grab the sushi mouse from the sides

00:24:04 ◼   ► with your thumb on one side

00:24:06 ◼   ► and your pinky and ring finger on the other,

00:24:07 ◼   ► It doesn't work 'cause the sides aren't straight,

00:24:09 ◼   ► the sides are very small, and if you actually do squeeze it,

00:24:11 ◼   ► it like pushes the mouse upward.

00:24:13 ◼   ► It's not how you're supposed to use that mouse.

00:24:15 ◼   ► So that kind of cemented that.

00:24:17 ◼   ► But the reason I brought this up is

00:24:19 ◼   ► that was the mouse on the Mac 128

00:24:22 ◼   ► and the original Macintosh, the 512, the Plus.

00:24:26 ◼   ► But when the SE came out,

00:24:27 ◼   ► Apple changed the shape of the mouse,

00:24:29 ◼   ► drastically changed the shape of the mouse.

00:24:31 ◼   ► You look with the mouse and the SE look like

00:24:34 ◼   ► it was way lower profile.

00:24:36 ◼   ► It still had flat sides

00:24:37 ◼   ► and they're still higher than the Sushi mouse,

00:24:39 ◼   ► but the top of it was like angled like a little ramp

00:24:42 ◼   ► that leaned forward and it was a smaller ramp on the back.

00:24:45 ◼   ► I don't know, you can find some pictures of it online.

00:24:46 ◼   ► But anyway, and I was like, whoa, what are you doing, Apple?

00:24:50 ◼   ► I liked your old mouse, it fit my hand well,

00:24:52 ◼   ► and now you give me this really,

00:24:53 ◼   ► it was almost like the Sushi mouse.

00:24:55 ◼   ► It was like, yeah, it's so small and slight.

00:24:56 ◼   ► And in reality, it was huge compared to the Sushi mouse,

00:24:59 ◼   ► but it was a big change.

00:25:00 ◼   ► And over the years, Apple has always,

00:25:02 ◼   ► well, for the most part, has made mice for its computers

00:25:05 ◼   ► that are high quality.

00:25:06 ◼   ► There were some exceptions up there with like the,

00:25:08 ◼   ► what was that one with the little roller ball in it?

00:25:10 ◼   ► It was like, whatever it was that,

00:25:11 ◼   ► there was like the iMac G5 error maybe.

00:25:14 ◼   ► That was not a good one.

00:25:15 ◼   ► The original Mighty Mouse.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Anyway, over the years, Apple has made a bunch of mice,

00:25:18 ◼   ► but every, I don't know,

00:25:20 ◼   ► I was gonna say every decade or two,

00:25:21 ◼   ► every five, 10 years,

00:25:24 ◼   ► they would radically change their mouse.

00:25:26 ◼   ► So there was the mouse and the SE.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Then the next big one was the ADB mouse

00:25:31 ◼   ► that was very curved and everything.

00:25:32 ◼   ► That mouse was great, loved it.

00:25:34 ◼   ► It was still kind of low profile,

00:25:35 ◼   ► but the shape was very comfortable, it looked modern,

00:25:38 ◼   ► had a huge button on top of it,

00:25:39 ◼   ► it was the whole front half of it was a button.

00:25:42 ◼   ► There was the Puck Mouse, nobody likes that.

00:25:43 ◼   ► There was the Apology Mouse, which I kind of liked,

00:25:46 ◼   ► even though, again, it was still kind of low profile.

00:25:48 ◼   ► There's the Sushi Mouse,

00:25:49 ◼   ► like there was the Mighty Mouse mixed in there.

00:25:52 ◼   ► I bring this up because Marco loves the Sushi Mouse.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Someday, if Marco keeps on living,

00:25:57 ◼   ► Apple's gonna change the mouse,

00:25:58 ◼   ► and they're probably gonna change it

00:25:59 ◼   ► in a way that he doesn't like.

00:26:01 ◼   ► So I wanted to give some perspective

00:26:02 ◼   ► from my history with Apple,

00:26:03 ◼   ► that Apple makes high quality mice, but they don't make the same mouse forever.

00:26:08 ◼   ► And when they change it, they tend to leave behind all the people who love their previous

00:26:11 ◼   ► one because the new one reflects the new thinking.

00:26:13 ◼   ► And in the case of the hockey puck, they leave behind anyone because the hockey puck, I guess

00:26:17 ◼   ► some people still like the hockey puck, but it was fatally flawed, let's say.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Even when they put a divot in the button so you could tell which direction it was facing.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Nice job, Apple.

00:26:26 ◼   ► So be aware.

00:26:28 ◼   ► If you love your Apple mouse, maybe get as many of them as you can and hope they work

00:26:32 ◼   ► for your computers for a long time,

00:26:33 ◼   ► kind of like people did with the Apple Extended Keyboard 2.

00:26:36 ◼   ► - I mean, the funny thing is, well, first of all,

00:26:39 ◼   ► I don't think it's ever going to be difficult

00:26:40 ◼   ► to find these since everyone who's ever bought an iMac

00:26:44 ◼   ► probably has one in their closet unopened.

00:26:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:26:48 ◼   ► There's so many of these lying around

00:26:49 ◼   ► that people got as pack-ins for their desktops

00:26:52 ◼   ► that they never used.

00:26:54 ◼   ► - But eventually you'll need,

00:26:55 ◼   ► like we used to have the USB to ADB adapters

00:26:58 ◼   ► that people will use the Apple Extended.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Eventually you're gonna need some kind of adapter

00:27:02 ◼   ► to use these things with like,

00:27:03 ◼   ► especially since they're Bluetooth, right?

00:27:05 ◼   ► It's not gonna have to be some kind of like

00:27:06 ◼   ► software adapter or Bluetooth dongle once, you know,

00:27:09 ◼   ► the new version of Bluetooth comes out.

00:27:10 ◼   ► - Not only are they Bluetooth, they're lightning.

00:27:13 ◼   ► And this is where like,

00:27:15 ◼   ► if they're ever gonna kill off this mouse,

00:27:18 ◼   ► maybe it'll be during the USB-C transition.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Like that's, that I think like I'm afraid

00:27:22 ◼   ► because when they go to USB-C,

00:27:25 ◼   ► they are presumably going to,

00:27:26 ◼   ► at some point during that transition, update this mouse.

00:27:30 ◼   ► Now that being said,

00:27:31 ◼   ► I think it's probably gonna be one of the last things

00:27:33 ◼   ► they update.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I mean, they might never update it,

00:27:35 ◼   ► because I don't think the EU's gonna mandate that.

00:27:37 ◼   ► We'll get to that in a little bit.

00:27:38 ◼   ► But also, I can imagine them not wanting to really do much

00:27:43 ◼   ► to make this change, and possibly doing it

00:27:46 ◼   ► in the most half-assed way possible,

00:27:49 ◼   ► which would basically just be like,

00:27:50 ◼   ► just keep the entire existing design,

00:27:53 ◼   ► and just make the port USB-C, instead of like--

00:27:56 ◼   ► - I think they got Qi charging.

00:27:58 ◼   ► The mouse is definitely something

00:27:59 ◼   ► where you can do Qi charging,

00:28:00 ◼   ► and it makes way more sense to have a charging thing

00:28:02 ◼   ► on the bottom when it's Qi charging

00:28:03 ◼   ► than it does to have a thing on the bottom

00:28:05 ◼   ► when it's USB-C or lightning.

00:28:06 ◼   ► - But then there's no pairing story.

00:28:07 ◼   ► 'Cause it also pair, you pair it with, by using the cable,

00:28:10 ◼   ► although I guess, I think there is like a thing

00:28:11 ◼   ► where you can like hold it down

00:28:12 ◼   ► and blink it into Bluetooth mode or whatever.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Like I think that there's probably

00:28:15 ◼   ► some kind of override for that.

00:28:16 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah.

00:28:18 ◼   ► I don't expect they're gonna be touching this

00:28:20 ◼   ► more than they have to.

00:28:21 ◼   ► But if they do, it is the wonderful combination

00:28:25 ◼   ► of being both extremely common and widely hated.

00:28:29 ◼   ► So there's gonna be a ton of them for sale forever

00:28:31 ◼   ► on eBay, totally unopened, so no problem there.

00:28:34 ◼   ► - I've got a bunch still in their original boxes

00:28:36 ◼   ► up in my attic, 'cause I never even take them out.

00:28:38 ◼   ► - Exactly, yeah.

00:28:39 ◼   ► There's so many people like you who buy desktop Macs

00:28:42 ◼   ► that come with these who don't ever use them,

00:28:45 ◼   ► 'cause everyone except me hates them.

00:28:47 ◼   ► So don't worry, I got a huge supply.

00:28:51 ◼   ► - I mean, the other thing I have going for you

00:28:52 ◼   ► is that Apple doesn't pay much attention

00:28:55 ◼   ► to the desktop Macs.

00:28:57 ◼   ► witness our continued wait for the Mac Pro.

00:28:59 ◼   ► So they're not going to redesign the mouse

00:29:02 ◼   ► as often as they did in the past

00:29:03 ◼   ► because it used to be much more important

00:29:04 ◼   ► to their product line.

00:29:06 ◼   ► But now that they've gotten basically all laptop

00:29:08 ◼   ► and some of their desktop computers

00:29:10 ◼   ► don't even come with the mouse like the Mac mini,

00:29:12 ◼   ► it's pretty low down the list.

00:29:14 ◼   ► But I do think it will make a USB-C transition

00:29:15 ◼   ► or a Qi transition because once they go all USB-C,

00:29:19 ◼   ► they're just gonna start knocking out

00:29:20 ◼   ► the products one by one.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Eventually, as lightning phases out,

00:29:24 ◼   ► it will eventually be as hard to find as a 30-pin connector

00:29:27 ◼   ► and so they're not gonna wanna keep selling a product

00:29:29 ◼   ► with that in it.

00:29:30 ◼   ► - I think I might, like, assuming that at some point

00:29:33 ◼   ► in the future I can't use this mouse anymore

00:29:37 ◼   ► and there's no replacement that I like,

00:29:39 ◼   ► which those are two pretty big assumptions,

00:29:41 ◼   ► but assuming that happens, I might just go to Trackpad.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Like, 'cause I love having the, like,

00:29:47 ◼   ► the direct manipulation scrolling on the mouse so much.

00:29:52 ◼   ► I would imagine I would rather just go directly

00:29:54 ◼   ► to double Trackpad, like, 'cause I already have Trackpad

00:29:56 ◼   ► the left and I could just get a second one, it'd be more symmetric, but I miss all my

00:30:02 ◼   ► Teflon mousepads.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Steven Hackett predictably has a good post that shows all the mice that I was just talking

00:30:08 ◼   ► about, the original one, the one for the Apple 2C and the Lisa, which are kind of gross,

00:30:14 ◼   ► then there's the first ADB mouse and then there's the Apple desktop mouse 2, which I

00:30:18 ◼   ► incorrectly said was the first Apple desktop mouse, but the other one was ADB before that.

00:30:23 ◼   ► There's a cool black one that came with the Apple,

00:30:25 ◼   ► no the Apple, the Macintosh television.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Man, I would love to get one of those black mice.

00:30:30 ◼   ► Then there's the Puck, the Apology Mouse,

00:30:32 ◼   ► the Stupid Mighty Mouse, and the Sushi Mouse.

00:30:35 ◼   ► So I think there might have been another one

00:30:36 ◼   ► in between there, but we'll put that link in the show notes.

00:30:38 ◼   ► It's an excellent page with some good photos.

00:30:40 ◼   ► - We are brought to you this week by Backblaze.

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00:31:39 ◼   ► And their client app that runs on my Macs.

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00:32:00 ◼   ► that if your only backup is either nothing,

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00:32:36 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Backblaze

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00:32:40 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:32:43 ◼   ► - Let's talk about some stuff

00:32:45 ◼   ► that you've been up to recently, Mr. Syracuse.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Tell me about your app updates.

00:32:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I didn't think I was gonna do this this year,

00:32:51 ◼   ► but I just, you know, the timing more or less worked out.

00:32:55 ◼   ► I had mentioned on the last show,

00:32:57 ◼   ► we were talking about like what we do

00:32:58 ◼   ► with the version control or whatever,

00:32:59 ◼   ► that I was adding a major feature to my app

00:33:01 ◼   ► and the branch I made for that feature

00:33:03 ◼   ► kind of morphed into the 2.0 branch

00:33:05 ◼   ► because I just kept adding stuff.

00:33:07 ◼   ► And so I was working on version two

00:33:09 ◼   ► of my little app switcher thing, Switch Glass,

00:33:11 ◼   ► and version two was kind of more or less ready

00:33:14 ◼   ► around the time of the Ventura launch.

00:33:16 ◼   ► In fact, I had to change a bunch of code in it

00:33:18 ◼   ► to deal with venture, which I might talk about it.

00:33:20 ◼   ► And well, I'll talk about it now briefly, I guess.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Anyway, the big feature that I added

00:33:25 ◼   ► was the number one requested feature was people wanted

00:33:27 ◼   ► to be able to reorder stuff in the app switcher.

00:33:31 ◼   ► They already had a bunch of different sort orders.

00:33:33 ◼   ► You could sort alphabetically in reverse and by launch order.

00:33:35 ◼   ► But they said, what if I just wanted to say,

00:33:37 ◼   ► I want Finder to be at the top.

00:33:38 ◼   ► I want this to be on the bottom, whatever.

00:33:40 ◼   ► So I added that feature.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Adding that feature, as I alluded to on past episodes

00:33:44 ◼   ► when we talked about our dev efforts required me to bump the minimum OS version to Monterey,

00:33:49 ◼   ► Mac OS 12 Monterey, because that app switch review is SwiftUI and the features for drag

00:33:55 ◼   ► and drop that I needed from SwiftUI only run on Monterey or later.

00:33:59 ◼   ► So it was a big bump in minimum system version, but honestly not that many people use my app

00:34:03 ◼   ► anyway, so whatever.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Who cares?

00:34:05 ◼   ► I wish I could have kept it lower, but I couldn't have and still actually had a reasonable drag

00:34:11 ◼   ► and drop interface.

00:34:12 ◼   ► And there's so many SwiftUI bugs in older OSs anyway,

00:34:14 ◼   ► I'm glad to be on something a little bit newer.

00:34:16 ◼   ► So I kind of did it, pulled an app,

00:34:19 ◼   ► and I was like, you know what,

00:34:20 ◼   ► Ventura's coming out soon, and if I just kind of say,

00:34:24 ◼   ► this is my underscore, no new features,

00:34:26 ◼   ► what is his little sign that he puts up?

00:34:28 ◼   ► No, Mark?

00:34:29 ◼   ► - I think it's no new features.

00:34:31 ◼   ► - I know it has a boat, because it represents shipping.

00:34:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just like, this is the line,

00:34:35 ◼   ► I'm not doing any more features,

00:34:36 ◼   ► I'm just doing debugging from this point on.

00:34:39 ◼   ► Even though I had more features in the queue,

00:34:40 ◼   ► I said, this is it, let me just cut it off here.

00:34:43 ◼   ► I sent myself a pull request, Casey.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Nice.

00:34:46 ◼   ► It sounds like something you should do alone.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:49 ◼   ► And push it out to the store.

00:34:50 ◼   ► And I didn't think App Review was going to get to it in time.

00:34:52 ◼   ► But lo and behold, on Ventura launch day,

00:34:54 ◼   ► both of my applications were ready with new versions.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Front and center, the only thing I changed in it

00:34:59 ◼   ► was a thing related to login items, which is--

00:35:02 ◼   ► I'll give a little summary here, but it turns out

00:35:04 ◼   ► to be a thing I'll talk about on another show.

00:35:05 ◼   ► But anyway, Ventura has a new API

00:35:07 ◼   ► for making applications register themselves

00:35:10 ◼   ► to launch on login.

00:35:11 ◼   ► There's been a surprisingly sorted history

00:35:14 ◼   ► of how apps do that on the Mac.

00:35:17 ◼   ► You would think it's such a simple feature,

00:35:18 ◼   ► it's just that one checkbox in the bottom

00:35:19 ◼   ► of a bunch of apps you use to say,

00:35:20 ◼   ► hey, do you want me to launch this app on login?

00:35:22 ◼   ► And you check it and you think that's all there is to it.

00:35:24 ◼   ► The way is they've done that, none of them are good.

00:35:26 ◼   ► There's a new way in Ventura,

00:35:27 ◼   ► which is better than the past ones,

00:35:30 ◼   ► but is buggy and has a bunch of caveats.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Anyway, I put a bunch of stuff in my FAQ about it

00:35:34 ◼   ► if you care, but.

00:35:35 ◼   ► - Oh, don't worry, because the second anybody updates

00:35:38 ◼   ► to Ventura, you will get, remember like,

00:35:41 ◼   ► I forget which version it was,

00:35:42 ◼   ► a couple of Mac OS versions ago when you had to like,

00:35:45 ◼   ► approve permissions for a whole bunch of new things.

00:35:47 ◼   ► The first launch experience of running that version

00:35:50 ◼   ► was just a wall of notifications from all your apps

00:35:53 ◼   ► that all of a sudden needed a new permission

00:35:55 ◼   ► that didn't exist before.

00:35:56 ◼   ► That's what it is for Ventura with these launch things.

00:35:58 ◼   ► Like the first time I launched, I have it on my laptop,

00:36:01 ◼   ► the very first time it launched with the final version,

00:36:04 ◼   ► the entire right side of the screen was just filled

00:36:07 ◼   ► with like 14 of these notifications

00:36:10 ◼   ► to approve these background items.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And it was all stuff I knew about

00:36:13 ◼   ► except for like one weird thing left over

00:36:15 ◼   ► by some driver installed forever ago.

00:36:17 ◼   ► But it was like, you know, shell scripts I have to run,

00:36:19 ◼   ► there's Backblaze, Dropbox, you know, all the stuff,

00:36:22 ◼   ► or not Dropbox, but Maestro, my Dropbox client,

00:36:25 ◼   ► like all the stuff that you want to run and expect to run,

00:36:29 ◼   ► but it was like, yeah, you have to basically like

00:36:31 ◼   ► be re-notified about everything.

00:36:34 ◼   ► The good thing is that the default seems to be

00:36:36 ◼   ► If it was running before, let it keep running.

00:36:39 ◼   ► So you don't have to actually do anything

00:36:41 ◼   ► besides maybe review them if there's

00:36:43 ◼   ► any you want to turn off and turn them off.

00:36:45 ◼   ► And it is nice that there is this new method to do that.

00:36:48 ◼   ► So I think it's a good feature overall, because before, there

00:36:51 ◼   ► were so many ways that things could be starting at startup

00:36:54 ◼   ► or behind the scenes that were not apparent to the user

00:36:58 ◼   ► and were very difficult for the user to ever remove.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Yeah, the problem with this briefly with respect to my app

00:37:04 ◼   ► is both of my apps have the option to launch on login

00:37:07 ◼   ► because they're the type of apps you run all the time.

00:37:08 ◼   ► Front and center changes your window layer

00:37:10 ◼   ► and you probably want that running all the time

00:37:11 ◼   ► if you can use it at all.

00:37:12 ◼   ► And switch glasses and app switcher,

00:37:13 ◼   ► you probably want that running all the time

00:37:14 ◼   ► just like the dock is running all the time.

00:37:15 ◼   ► So having them both launch on login makes tons of sense.

00:37:18 ◼   ► That's all they do.

00:37:19 ◼   ► They launch on login.

00:37:20 ◼   ► They're just regular apps

00:37:21 ◼   ► and instead of you having to double click them

00:37:22 ◼   ► or launch them from the dock or whatever,

00:37:24 ◼   ► you can get them to launch themselves.

00:37:25 ◼   ► That's it.

00:37:26 ◼   ► But because there is a new API to do that in Ventura,

00:37:30 ◼   ► There was a series of old APIs on pre-Ventura systems, right?

00:37:34 ◼   ► So I used the new API on Ventura,

00:37:36 ◼   ► but because my apps run on older OSes,

00:37:39 ◼   ► even, you know, even Switch class

00:37:40 ◼   ► that I had to bump up to Monterey, it runs on Monterey,

00:37:42 ◼   ► and the Ventura APIs don't exist on Monterey.

00:37:44 ◼   ► So my app has to support the APIs that exist on Monterey,

00:37:49 ◼   ► right?

00:37:49 ◼   ► If your app uses the Monterey or earlier APIs on Ventura,

00:37:54 ◼   ► when you use the new API to say,

00:37:56 ◼   ► hey, please launch me on login,

00:37:58 ◼   ► Ventura files your app under a section in system settings

00:38:02 ◼   ► that says, these apps run in the background.

00:38:05 ◼   ► My apps don't run in the background.

00:38:07 ◼   ► They have no way to run in the background.

00:38:09 ◼   ► There's nothing in them that runs in the background.

00:38:10 ◼   ► They don't have any kind of demons.

00:38:11 ◼   ► They only run in the foreground.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Like they're just apps.

00:38:13 ◼   ► You just double click them and they run.

00:38:15 ◼   ► They can't do anything when they're not running, right?

00:38:18 ◼   ► But because it uses an older API that it has to,

00:38:21 ◼   ► it doesn't use it, includes code for an older API,

00:38:23 ◼   ► because it does that on Ventura,

00:38:26 ◼   ► it's filed under this app runs in the background.

00:38:28 ◼   ► And so now I have to brace myself

00:38:30 ◼   ► for people sending me emails saying,

00:38:32 ◼   ► "Why does your app run in the background?

00:38:34 ◼   ► What kind of sneaky stuff is it doing?"

00:38:35 ◼   ► I have to say, "It doesn't run in the background."

00:38:37 ◼   ► They're gonna say, "But the OS says it runs in the background.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Look, let me send you a screenshot of system settings.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Here's your app listed in the apps that run in the background.

00:38:43 ◼   ► They may perform tasks when they're not open," right?

00:38:45 ◼   ► Like, I assure you, my app cannot do anything

00:38:48 ◼   ► when it is not running.

00:38:49 ◼   ► I installed no launch DEP list.

00:38:51 ◼   ► There's no daemon. There's no background server.

00:38:53 ◼   ► I am not, you know, run activity monitor, run PS,

00:38:57 ◼   ► satisfy yourself, but then why is it showing?

00:38:59 ◼   ► Ugh, so I filed the feedback on this,

00:39:02 ◼   ► and it's kind of frustrating,

00:39:03 ◼   ► and that gets to your wall of notifications.

00:39:05 ◼   ► Half of those notifications are going to say,

00:39:08 ◼   ► so-and-so application wants to run in the background.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Sometimes you will get a notification

00:39:12 ◼   ► that says something wants to run in the background

00:39:13 ◼   ► when all it wants to do is launch on login,

00:39:15 ◼   ► but sometimes it really does want to run something

00:39:17 ◼   ► in the background, so when you go into system settings

00:39:19 ◼   ► in, you know, whatever, general login items,

00:39:21 ◼   ► and you see the allow in background list or whatever,

00:39:25 ◼   ► you can't tell by looking at that list

00:39:27 ◼   ► which one of these things actually runs in the background

00:39:30 ◼   ► versus which one of these things is just an application

00:39:32 ◼   ► that supports a preventer OS

00:39:33 ◼   ► that just wants to launch itself on login.

00:39:35 ◼   ► There's no way to tell.

00:39:37 ◼   ► Most of them probably do run in the background,

00:39:38 ◼   ► but only if you have experience to know, like,

00:39:41 ◼   ► "Oh, I understand this is an updater daemon

00:39:42 ◼   ► that really does run in the background,"

00:39:44 ◼   ► or, "This thing does make a launch agent with launch D."

00:39:48 ◼   ► You're not going to end up by looking at this list.

00:39:50 ◼   ► So anyway, that's why I had to add a FAQ item

00:39:53 ◼   ► to both of my dinky little products that says,

00:39:55 ◼   ► hey, why is your app listed as running in the background?

00:39:58 ◼   ► Does it do anything in the background?

00:39:59 ◼   ► I have to say, no, it doesn't, I swear.

00:40:01 ◼   ► So that's frustrating.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And then the second frustrating thing is,

00:40:04 ◼   ► maybe this is only true for people running development

00:40:06 ◼   ► and test flight builds or whatever,

00:40:07 ◼   ► but the new API in Ventura,

00:40:08 ◼   ► when it gets added to launch on login,

00:40:11 ◼   ► it's very specific, as in this specific app

00:40:14 ◼   ► should launch on login, which I think is good.

00:40:16 ◼   ► But if you're doing development,

00:40:18 ◼   ► and like when you run Xcode

00:40:19 ◼   ► and it builds a version of your app

00:40:20 ◼   ► and whatever that folder is under hidden drive data?

00:40:23 ◼   ► Where does it put the temporary debug builds of your apps?

00:40:26 ◼   ► - Oh, God, it's somewhere very deep.

00:40:28 ◼   ► I never know.

00:40:31 ◼   ► I always have to debug print the path of the binary,

00:40:34 ◼   ► drag it out of the target area.

00:40:36 ◼   ► - Command click it on the dock, right?

00:40:38 ◼   ► - What?

00:40:38 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, I guess.

00:40:39 ◼   ► - Oh, well, not for the simulator.

00:40:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're not using Mac apps, sorry.

00:40:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:40:44 ◼   ► - It's Mac apps, you command click on the dock.

00:40:45 ◼   ► But yeah, when you're running Xcode,

00:40:47 ◼   ► it builds a copy of your app

00:40:48 ◼   ► and it puts it somewhere, but it's not like,

00:40:50 ◼   ► even if you're making a Mac app,

00:40:52 ◼   ► it doesn't put it in your applications folder.

00:40:53 ◼   ► So when you run the dev build

00:40:55 ◼   ► and you call the venture API to launch this on login,

00:40:57 ◼   ► I think what it's doing is saying,

00:40:58 ◼   ► okay, I'll launch the application located at library,

00:41:02 ◼   ► developer, Xcode, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I'll launch that at login, right?

00:41:05 ◼   ► But you're the version of the application

00:41:07 ◼   ► sitting in your application folder

00:41:09 ◼   ► is also registered as launch and login.

00:41:10 ◼   ► So I got into a situation where I had like three copies

00:41:13 ◼   ► of switch class listed in my open at login list.

00:41:15 ◼   ► And by the way, the whole thing about allow in background,

00:41:17 ◼   ► your app will also show up in the open it login thing.

00:41:20 ◼   ► So it does correctly show up there,

00:41:22 ◼   ► but it also appears in the allow in the background list.

00:41:24 ◼   ► So anyway, I've been in situations

00:41:26 ◼   ► where there are multiple copies of my apps

00:41:29 ◼   ► listed in open it login.

00:41:31 ◼   ► And I think it's because there literally are

00:41:32 ◼   ► multiple copies of maps running around on the disc.

00:41:35 ◼   ► And unlike previous versions of macOS,

00:41:36 ◼   ► this one tracks all of them

00:41:38 ◼   ► and will send you a notification every time you do

00:41:40 ◼   ► a new build and you launch it, it's like,

00:41:41 ◼   ► oh, just so you know, this app that we've never seen before,

00:41:43 ◼   ► they just got built and run,

00:41:45 ◼   ► it just registers itself to launch on login.

00:41:47 ◼   ► and we wanted you to know about it with a notification.

00:41:49 ◼   ► - Fun, that's super crappy.

00:41:51 ◼   ► - So anyway, my apps are updated.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Twitch class two is a free update

00:41:54 ◼   ► for the five people who use it.

00:41:56 ◼   ► I'm still having fun developing it.

00:41:58 ◼   ► In fact, I just did a test flight build

00:41:59 ◼   ► with a bunch of fun new features

00:42:01 ◼   ► and people are finding fun new bugs.

00:42:02 ◼   ► I'm enjoying test flight.

00:42:04 ◼   ► It's way better than trying to send people betas.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Test flight on the Mac, when it's working

00:42:07 ◼   ► and when App Store Connect is working correctly

00:42:09 ◼   ► is a real godsend.

00:42:11 ◼   ► So I made a petition for new testers

00:42:14 ◼   ► in my blog post about it.

00:42:16 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes to that post

00:42:18 ◼   ► so you can read it.

00:42:19 ◼   ► It's only a couple paragraphs.

00:42:19 ◼   ► If you want to be a tester, you can send me an email.

00:42:22 ◼   ► And I'll let you test it.

00:42:22 ◼   ► And you can find fun bugs, and I'll fix them.

00:42:24 ◼   ► That's the plan anyway.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Oh, one more thing related to the blog post.

00:42:29 ◼   ► I put a mailto link in the thing that

00:42:31 ◼   ► says, if you want to become a tester, let me know.

00:42:34 ◼   ► And the words "let me know" are a link,

00:42:35 ◼   ► and they're a mailto link.

00:42:37 ◼   ► I said, you know what?

00:42:38 ◼   ► Let me put a subject line on the mailto link.

00:42:40 ◼   ► I know there's a sort of convention for doing that.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I'm not sure if it's a real standard,

00:42:44 ◼   ► but I've seen it done many different times.

00:42:45 ◼   ► you know, whatever. So, you know, the URL of that link is mail, M-A-I-L-T-O colon, and then my email

00:42:51 ◼   ► address, and then question mark, subject equals, and then you type the subject line, right? And

00:42:56 ◼   ► the subject line is "Switch glass test flight membership" with spaces between the words, right?

00:43:01 ◼   ► When you put spaces in the, in the, you know, the href field of a link, you're supposed to URL

00:43:08 ◼   ► encode them, you know, with percent 20, or I think you can do pluses, that might only be for the

00:43:13 ◼   ► the address bar, but anyway, percent 20, right?

00:43:15 ◼   ► That's the hexadecimal, you know,

00:43:17 ◼   ► the way you put hexadecimal codes or ASCII code points,

00:43:20 ◼   ► you know, that's a space, right?

00:43:22 ◼   ► - Or you can use a plus and break half the clients out there.

00:43:25 ◼   ► - Right, so here's the thing.

00:43:26 ◼   ► I put percent 20s 'cause it's the right thing to do

00:43:28 ◼   ► and I make a valid markup when I can, right?

00:43:31 ◼   ► I immediately found out that every single person

00:43:34 ◼   ► who clicked that link was somehow using some kind

00:43:37 ◼   ► of browser or system that has no idea what that is

00:43:39 ◼   ► and I got a bunch of email with the subject line,

00:43:41 ◼   ► Switch glass percent 20, you know,

00:43:43 ◼   ► test flight percent 20, membership percent 20.

00:43:45 ◼   ► All right, so and like literally not a single one

00:43:49 ◼   ► was correct, I'm like, okay, I tested it myself,

00:43:51 ◼   ► by the way, Chrome on the Mac and Safari works fine.

00:43:54 ◼   ► You get spaces, right?

00:43:55 ◼   ► But whatever, maybe it's the email client.

00:43:58 ◼   ► I don't know where the problem lies,

00:43:59 ◼   ► but I was getting emails with percent 20s in subject line.

00:44:01 ◼   ► I changed it to pluses.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I just got emails with pluses in it.

00:44:05 ◼   ► Like, literally not a single email from any mail,

00:44:10 ◼   ► I think it's probably the mail client that's screwing it up,

00:44:12 ◼   ► because I think Safari and Chrome probably send it

00:44:14 ◼   ► correctly, but the mail clients don't know that it's-- anyway.

00:44:17 ◼   ► I had to change it to spaces, which is not valid,

00:44:20 ◼   ► but apparently it's the only way to get spaces.

00:44:21 ◼   ► So if you look at the markup, it says,

00:44:23 ◼   ► A, HREF, blah, blah, blah, question mark, subject,

00:44:26 ◼   ► equals, switch glass, space, test flight, space, membership.

00:44:30 ◼   ► And that works.

00:44:32 ◼   ► Now I'm getting really bad subject lines.

00:44:33 ◼   ► It's invalid.

00:44:34 ◼   ► It's invalid HTML.

00:44:35 ◼   ► You can put spaces--

00:44:36 ◼   ► just the web.

00:44:38 ◼   ► You just can't escape it.

00:44:39 ◼   ► It just amazes me that this is not a new convention.

00:44:41 ◼   ► The subject line in mail to links, what is that,

00:44:43 ◼   ► from the 90s?

00:44:44 ◼   ► And still somehow there's a broken link in this chain.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Again, I think it's the mail clients.

00:44:48 ◼   ► I think it's the mail clients are getting a URL

00:44:50 ◼   ► and they are not correctly parsing the query string

00:44:52 ◼   ► out of the URL part of it.

00:44:53 ◼   ► They're not, obviously not decoding the percent 20s

00:44:57 ◼   ► and not decoding the pluses.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Sad, sad state of affairs.

00:45:00 ◼   ► - This is, so I mean, I'll be the first one to admit

00:45:03 ◼   ► when email is bad because that's much of the time,

00:45:06 ◼   ► but I've never had this problem.

00:45:09 ◼   ► I use that convention frequently.

00:45:11 ◼   ► We even have it in our member panel, if you did that,

00:45:14 ◼   ► dot fm slash join.

00:45:16 ◼   ► If you go to your member panel at slash member,

00:45:19 ◼   ► at the bottom there's a link to contact us.

00:45:21 ◼   ► And it's a mailto link that includes not only spaces,

00:45:25 ◼   ► but escaped colons and parentheses, all percent encoded.

00:45:30 ◼   ► And I get a email from that maybe a couple times a week,

00:45:34 ◼   ► maybe three or four times a week.

00:45:36 ◼   ► None of them have ever had wrongly escaped things in them.

00:45:40 ◼   ► It's never happened.

00:45:41 ◼   ► - Maybe it's just small sample size,

00:45:43 ◼   ► 'cause I think only 10 people email me,

00:45:44 ◼   ► but every single one of the 10 had percent store pluses.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I was shocked, I was shocked.

00:45:49 ◼   ► How could, in this day and age, how could something,

00:45:51 ◼   ► but there you have it.

00:45:52 ◼   ► So yeah, that's why the web is full of invalid things,

00:45:55 ◼   ► 'cause people learn through trial and error

00:45:57 ◼   ► that if you want it to quote unquote work everywhere,

00:45:59 ◼   ► you have to use invalid markup in some cases.

00:46:02 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

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00:47:51 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:47:55 ◼   ► - All right, I got a new treat today.

00:47:57 ◼   ► - Ooh.

00:47:58 ◼   ► I went to Apple, the local Apple store in Short Pump,

00:48:03 ◼   ► and I got myself a picked up, yes,

00:48:06 ◼   ► everyone thinks it's so funny.

00:48:08 ◼   ► - That also sounds like something you do when you're alone.

00:48:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:12 ◼   ► - I've been married a long time, Marco.

00:48:13 ◼   ► Anyway, so I went to the store,

00:48:16 ◼   ► and I got complimented on my M2 shirt,

00:48:18 ◼   ► which just happened to be the top shirt in my pile

00:48:20 ◼   ► when I got dressed this morning, or excuse me, not M2,

00:48:23 ◼   ► I didn't get a pre-release M2 shirt, M1.

00:48:25 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, you don't have an early copy

00:48:26 ◼   ► of the M2 shirt.

00:48:27 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, my apologies.

00:48:28 ◼   ► My M1 shirt, somebody commented on it and said, "Nice shirt,"

00:48:31 ◼   ► and I was very appreciative of that,

00:48:33 ◼   ► and the person helping me was very kind,

00:48:36 ◼   ► and they smiled and nodded very effectively

00:48:39 ◼   ► when I told them about my podcast,

00:48:41 ◼   ► which I'm sure they were so excited to hear about,

00:48:43 ◼   ► but they did a very good job of making me feel

00:48:45 ◼   ► like they actually gave a crap.

00:48:47 ◼   ► So anyway.

00:48:48 ◼   ► - You should listen to my podcast.

00:48:49 ◼   ► It's about computers.

00:48:50 ◼   ► You would like it.

00:48:50 ◼   ► - I was totally that guy.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I was wearing my own shirt.

00:48:53 ◼   ► It was so bad.

00:48:54 ◼   ► It was terrible.

00:48:55 ◼   ► - Oh, no.

00:48:56 ◼   ► wear the shirts out in public just in case I don't want to be that guy.

00:49:01 ◼   ► No, I don't care. I have no shame. I'm 40 now, man. I mean, so are you, but I'm 40 now. I don't care.

00:49:06 ◼   ► But anyway, so I picked up my iPad Pro. I gotta say, in general, if you live in a place that is not

00:49:14 ◼   ► like Boston or New York City and you have one of the slower Apple stores like the one in

00:49:21 ◼   ► short pump. It is pretty delightful going in and picking up your devices because you get them first

00:49:27 ◼   ► thing in the morning. You don't have to stock the UPS truck. It's wonderful and there's almost never

00:49:34 ◼   ► any big line like even on iPhone day because if you recall I did pick up for the first time in years

00:49:38 ◼   ► for these iPhones a couple of what last month and even then I waited like I don't know 10 minutes

00:49:44 ◼   ► maybe maybe and I was in and out and five after I tried to get upsell upsold on AppleCare and

00:49:50 ◼   ► screen protectors and all the other very sundry things Apple wants to make money off of, but

00:49:53 ◼   ► that's neither here nor there.

00:49:54 ◼   ► For whatever it's worth, by the way, I'm sorry to interrupt here, I've had great experiences

00:50:00 ◼   ► with the Long Island Apple stores. Like, you know, the Westchester ones are pretty decent.

00:50:04 ◼   ► The ones in the city are, you know, very crowded, very dense, you know, you have to wait on

00:50:08 ◼   ► lines, it's a little chaotic. The ones in Westchester are much nicer. The ones on Long

00:50:13 ◼   ► Island have been, honestly, even better. Like, I'm really surprised. And I think it's mostly

00:50:18 ◼   ► because like not a lot of there's not a lot of nerds on Long Island like that I

00:50:24 ◼   ► don't know where they are I have I haven't located them what are you

00:50:26 ◼   ► talking about oh John's upset John's upset not a lot of nerds on Long Island

00:50:31 ◼   ► nerd said where do they where do they keep them where they're all they're all

00:50:36 ◼   ► too busy doing extra credit activity so they look good in their college

00:50:39 ◼   ► applications well they're not in the Apple Store and so therefore they're

00:50:42 ◼   ► never crowded but they're but they're probably working at the Apple Store well

00:50:45 ◼   ► - Well, yeah, that's true, because the staff has been great.

00:50:48 ◼   ► I'm actually, there's two stores I go to

00:50:50 ◼   ► that are close to me on Long Island here,

00:50:52 ◼   ► and they're both, so far, fantastic.

00:50:55 ◼   ► And because there are no more nerds on Long Island

00:50:58 ◼   ► who don't already work at the Apple stores,

00:51:00 ◼   ► there's almost no one ever in there.

00:51:02 ◼   ► And so you get, there's tons of staff,

00:51:04 ◼   ► very few customers, instant service.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Like, it's been fantastic.

00:51:08 ◼   ► - And also you're going there when people are at work.

00:51:10 ◼   ► It occurs to me that I have no idea

00:51:12 ◼   ► where any Apple stores are on Long Island,

00:51:13 ◼   ► because I didn't live there when Apple stores became a thing.

00:51:15 ◼   ► So what stores are you going to?

00:51:17 ◼   ► - My primary one is the Walt Whitman Mall one.

00:51:19 ◼   ► - I was gonna say, like, Walt Whitman would be my first guess

00:51:22 ◼   ► where one would be, although I, I mean,

00:51:24 ◼   ► I don't really relish going there,

00:51:25 ◼   ► but I haven't been in ages.

00:51:26 ◼   ► But yeah, that's, you know,

00:51:28 ◼   ► ones in malls have the advantage that malls are dying,

00:51:31 ◼   ► so there's probably not a lot there except for, like,

00:51:33 ◼   ► you know, the Orange Julius in the Apple Store.

00:51:36 ◼   ► - Oh, Orange Julius, yes!

00:51:39 ◼   ► Oh, I love being Orange Julius.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Are they still in business?

00:51:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:51:42 ◼   ► It's weird walking through malls these days though,

00:51:44 ◼   ► 'cause you walk past, there's, you know,

00:51:46 ◼   ► most of the stores, well, there's different kinds of malls.

00:51:51 ◼   ► - Spirit Halloween is in most of the places, right?

00:51:53 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:54 ◼   ► - What?

00:51:55 ◼   ► - Because they always go and swoop in the defunct stores

00:51:58 ◼   ► and take over around Halloween time.

00:51:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, you don't know about Spirit Halloween?

00:52:01 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah, there's cheap seasonal stores.

00:52:04 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:52:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, but anyway, no, there's, let me see,

00:52:07 ◼   ► where's the other one that I went to?

00:52:09 ◼   ► The other one was in Smith Haven, yeah, that's the other one.

00:52:12 ◼   ► That mall is not in as good a shape,

00:52:15 ◼   ► but Walt Whitman's in really good shape.

00:52:18 ◼   ► And it's all like, it's internet brands.

00:52:21 ◼   ► It's like Casper and Warby Parker.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Like it's all like the podcast ad brands that you hear.

00:52:28 ◼   ► They now have stores in upscale malls

00:52:31 ◼   ► and that's what's taking all the mall stuff now.

00:52:33 ◼   ► Anyway, it is weird though, walking through a mall

00:52:36 ◼   ► 'cause even the good malls are a shadow

00:52:40 ◼   ► of what they once were and are largely empty.

00:52:44 ◼   ► It's very strange.

00:52:46 ◼   ► - I brought my wedding ring at a jewelry store

00:52:47 ◼   ► in Smith Haven Mall.

00:52:49 ◼   ► - Aww.

00:52:49 ◼   ► - I used to ride my bike there.

00:52:51 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:52:53 ◼   ► - You were very close.

00:52:55 ◼   ► So yeah, so I picked up my iPad Pro.

00:52:57 ◼   ► I did not get any accessories because my hope, in theory,

00:52:59 ◼   ► was I could repurpose all the accessories

00:53:01 ◼   ► for my 2018 iPad Pro, which is going to be retired.

00:53:05 ◼   ► I had spoken briefly about, oh, maybe I'll just cancel this,

00:53:07 ◼   ► but because I'm a big liar,

00:53:11 ◼   ► I did not cancel this obviously.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But I did get it.

00:53:14 ◼   ► I have not had a lot of time to play with it,

00:53:17 ◼   ► but you know what, it's like a much better battery,

00:53:21 ◼   ► much faster, I guess,

00:53:24 ◼   ► much less scratch screen version of my 2018 iPad Pro.

00:53:29 ◼   ► I put it in the 2018, or no, I guess it was 2020,

00:53:33 ◼   ► Magic Keyboard case, and it fit no problem.

00:53:36 ◼   ► In fact, if I recall correctly,

00:53:37 ◼   ► when they came out with last year's iPad Pro,

00:53:41 ◼   ► they said, "Oh, it's not gonna fit

00:53:42 ◼   ► "in the 2020 edition case.

00:53:43 ◼   ► "It's not gonna fit right."

00:53:44 ◼   ► And then they came out a few days later, a week later,

00:53:46 ◼   ► and was like, "Well, it'll fit,

00:53:48 ◼   ► "but it's gonna be not 100% perfect.

00:53:51 ◼   ► "Maybe I just don't have the eye for it,

00:53:53 ◼   ► "but it seems like it fits perfectly," which is great.

00:53:56 ◼   ► So I'm using Magic Keyboard, which I love.

00:54:00 ◼   ► The pencil synced, no problem.

00:54:02 ◼   ► - Wait, what about the camera hole?

00:54:05 ◼   ► - Oh, or did the Magic Keyboard come out late enough

00:54:07 ◼   ► so that it had the larger camera plateau of the M1 iPad?

00:54:10 ◼   ► - Correct, well I don't think it was an M1 at the time,

00:54:12 ◼   ► but it was, the spirit of what you're saying is correct,

00:54:15 ◼   ► that it had the big square hole.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - Oh, the A12Z iPad, the one that added the LiDAR sensor,

00:54:23 ◼   ► right, that's what--

00:54:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that's right. - Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

00:54:27 ◼   ► - So yeah, that fit, no problem, all good.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Pencil obviously works, no problem, all good.

00:54:31 ◼   ► And so I've dug out my old, what is it,

00:54:34 ◼   ► the keyboard, not folio, the thing

00:54:37 ◼   ► that's not a kickstandy one, not the new kickstandy one,

00:54:40 ◼   ► but like the--

00:54:40 ◼   ► - It's the Magic Folio keyboard.

00:54:42 ◼   ► - Oh, it is, okay, thank you.

00:54:43 ◼   ► - The Smart Keyboard Folio, that's the one I use.

00:54:45 ◼   ► - The Smart, yeah, the Smart Magic Folio Keyboard Folio.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Oh, God, it's so bad.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Anyway, but yes, that thing, so I busted that back out.

00:54:52 ◼   ► - I like what Gruber clarified.

00:54:54 ◼   ► Magic means it has a trackpad, right?

00:54:56 ◼   ► So that clarifies one whole section of it.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - It's so clear, I don't know why it's not obvious.

00:55:02 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

00:55:03 ◼   ► - Track pads are magic.

00:55:04 ◼   ► - Right, oh man.

00:55:05 ◼   ► You know, I was just thinking earlier

00:55:07 ◼   ► as I was washing dishes, 'cause that's when I do my thinking,

00:55:10 ◼   ► wouldn't it be amazing if Apple just had like

00:55:14 ◼   ► one iPad keyboard and one iPad cover

00:55:19 ◼   ► that you could use on all of their 11-ish-inch iPads?

00:55:24 ◼   ► And I instantly knew why they don't do that.

00:55:28 ◼   ► 'Cause even after all this time,

00:55:30 ◼   ► the iPad is still not designed for covers or keyboards

00:55:35 ◼   ► to attach to them very well.

00:55:38 ◼   ► If they were, they would have to make sacrifices

00:55:41 ◼   ► on the physical shape in some way.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Maybe having an attachment slot,

00:55:46 ◼   ► kinda like the way the Apple Watch straps

00:55:49 ◼   ► slide into a groove in the case.

00:55:51 ◼   ► If there was something like that,

00:55:54 ◼   ► or some way for things to physically attach securely

00:55:58 ◼   ► to an iPad without just magnetically sticking to the back?

00:56:01 ◼   ► - I mean the magnets are pretty good though.

00:56:03 ◼   ► I think they do, I like the magnets.

00:56:05 ◼   ► I think they do a good job with getting the cases.

00:56:07 ◼   ► I didn't think I would like them 'cause I used to have

00:56:08 ◼   ► like on my original 9.7 inch Pro.

00:56:10 ◼   ► Do you remember the cases that came,

00:56:11 ◼   ► the Apple cases for the 9.7 inch Pro?

00:56:13 ◼   ► They actually like wrapped around the edges

00:56:15 ◼   ► and hooked over the front.

00:56:16 ◼   ► Those were great, very secure.

00:56:18 ◼   ► I really loved that.

00:56:19 ◼   ► My son's got that iPad now,

00:56:20 ◼   ► although it's kind of fun, it's last legs.

00:56:22 ◼   ► But the flat ones, the sort of ice cream sandwich ones

00:56:25 ◼   ► that go on the flat ones now,

00:56:27 ◼   ► It doesn't look like it should work,

00:56:28 ◼   ► but they work pretty well.

00:56:30 ◼   ► I think where things start to fall apart

00:56:31 ◼   ► is the keyboard stuff,

00:56:32 ◼   ► 'cause I'm just talking about the flat cases or whatever,

00:56:34 ◼   ► but once you start putting in more heavyweight things

00:56:37 ◼   ► in there or trying to construct a little precarious laptop

00:56:40 ◼   ► out of it, that's where you need like the

00:56:43 ◼   ► apparently extremely expensive technology in the,

00:56:46 ◼   ► well, you should finish telling me the adjective things.

00:56:48 ◼   ► Magic means it has a track lab.

00:56:49 ◼   ► What does it mean when it costs 300 something dollars

00:56:51 ◼   ► and had like this weird armature inside it?

00:56:53 ◼   ► - Oh, that just means iPad keyboard.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - No, you know what I'm talking about?

00:56:56 ◼   ► It's Casey's one.

00:56:57 ◼   ► that holds the thing up.

00:56:58 ◼   ► Is there a word in the product name

00:56:59 ◼   ► that lets me know it's that one,

00:57:00 ◼   ► or is it just the price?

00:57:01 ◼   ► - No, the price tells you very clearly, yeah.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's just, and so, as far as I can tell,

00:57:06 ◼   ► is magic ever used with folio,

00:57:11 ◼   ► or are those mutually exclusive?

00:57:12 ◼   ► 'Cause I think folio means the old kind

00:57:15 ◼   ► where it's just like two flat things

00:57:17 ◼   ► that sandwich together, right?

00:57:19 ◼   ► And there's usually--

00:57:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, folio is actually a word that means something,

00:57:21 ◼   ► so I give them some leeway on that one,

00:57:23 ◼   ► like it makes some sense.

00:57:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there's no trackpad with Folio,

00:57:27 ◼   ► as far as I'm aware.

00:57:28 ◼   ► - Well, slow down so we can get this all wrong.

00:57:29 ◼   ► The Magic Keyboard Folio is a $250 thing--

00:57:32 ◼   ► - That has a trackpad, yeah.

00:57:33 ◼   ► - That has a trackpad that is for the iPad,

00:57:35 ◼   ► which by the way, I did play with in store very briefly.

00:57:38 ◼   ► It was good.

00:57:39 ◼   ► - Oh, smart is what's mutually exclusive from Magic.

00:57:42 ◼   ► All right, so it can either be smart or magic,

00:57:45 ◼   ► and smart means it does not have a trackpad.

00:57:49 ◼   ► Magic means it does and costs a bajillion dollars.

00:57:52 ◼   ► Not that the smart ones are particularly inexpensive,

00:57:54 ◼   ► they're just less insanely expensive.

00:57:57 ◼   ► - And that again makes no sense.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Because magic is not the opposite of smart

00:58:00 ◼   ► and neither one says anything about track pants.

00:58:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I know.

00:58:03 ◼   ► But anyway, it is, I would love to someday get to a point

00:58:06 ◼   ► in Apple's iPad lineup, and obviously it's all jumbled up

00:58:08 ◼   ► right now and we discussed possibly why

00:58:10 ◼   ► with supply chain and whatever,

00:58:11 ◼   ► but I would love to get to a point in Apple's lineup

00:58:14 ◼   ► where every new iPad doesn't have its own

00:58:18 ◼   ► completely different and incompatible set of accessories.

00:58:21 ◼   ► 'Cause if they're gonna have this lineup

00:58:22 ◼   ► that has many different models in it.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Obviously, between the 11-ish inch size class

00:58:28 ◼   ► and the 12.9 inch, yeah, you gotta have

00:58:30 ◼   ► a different keyboard for that

00:58:32 ◼   ► because it's a very different size.

00:58:33 ◼   ► But there are so many iPads now in the 11-ish inch range

00:58:37 ◼   ► that are all almost the same size.

00:58:39 ◼   ► Like if they just made them all the same size

00:58:43 ◼   ► and made them all use the same frickin' pencil

00:58:45 ◼   ► and the same two or three keyboard options,

00:58:48 ◼   ► different price and complexity categories,

00:58:50 ◼   ► that would be so nice.

00:58:52 ◼   ► 'Cause as it is right now, it's so absurdly,

00:58:56 ◼   ► I mean, it's expensive for one,

00:58:58 ◼   ► but I don't think they would see that as a bad thing.

00:59:00 ◼   ► But it's also just incredibly wasteful.

00:59:02 ◼   ► Like there's all the, you know,

00:59:04 ◼   ► when I upgraded from my old A12X 2018 iPad

00:59:09 ◼   ► that Casey just updated away from,

00:59:10 ◼   ► to the M1 this past summer,

00:59:13 ◼   ► I had to get a new keyboard cover

00:59:14 ◼   ► because the old one didn't,

00:59:16 ◼   ► it wouldn't fit the camera plateau of the new one.

00:59:18 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, that's a bummer.

00:59:20 ◼   ► - It felt dumb.

00:59:21 ◼   ► Like why am I, like there goes 180 bucks or whatever

00:59:24 ◼   ► that I didn't have to spend,

00:59:25 ◼   ► and then what do I do with this keyboard?

00:59:27 ◼   ► Like I tried to give it away to family members

00:59:29 ◼   ► who still had the old iPad, they didn't need it.

00:59:31 ◼   ► I ended up, it's in a closet somewhere,

00:59:33 ◼   ► I've forgotten exactly where,

00:59:35 ◼   ► and you know, probably in two or three years

00:59:37 ◼   ► I'll find it and throw it away.

00:59:38 ◼   ► That's a waste, you know?

00:59:39 ◼   ► And there's so many situations like that

00:59:41 ◼   ► where like if they would stop changing the accessories

00:59:44 ◼   ► like every year for these iPads

00:59:45 ◼   ► that change a few millimeters here and there,

00:59:48 ◼   ► and you know, the camera bump gets a little bit bigger,

00:59:50 ◼   ► moves around, if they could design them in a more

00:59:53 ◼   ► holistic and forward looking way so that both the iPads

00:59:56 ◼   ► and the accessories, design them both together

00:59:58 ◼   ► to create a world where there's just like,

01:00:02 ◼   ► there's an iPad keyboard and there's an iPad keyboard

01:00:04 ◼   ► with a trackpad and those come in two sizes and that's it.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Like that would be amazing.

01:00:09 ◼   ► - Now those keyboards and covers that attach though

01:00:12 ◼   ► are in many respects wear items for iPads.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Like that they're not, they are the outside of the thing.

01:00:18 ◼   ► They are going to wear down.

01:00:20 ◼   ► They are going to degrade just like the brakes on your car

01:00:23 ◼   ► and the oil in your engine, or not your engine, Marco,

01:00:25 ◼   ► well, one of your engines, anyway.

01:00:27 ◼   ► And so I think their useful lifetime is not great,

01:00:30 ◼   ► which really argues on not being $300 items,

01:00:34 ◼   ► because by the time you're done with that iPad,

01:00:36 ◼   ► if it has a nice long life,

01:00:37 ◼   ► those accessories, if you actually use them,

01:00:39 ◼   ► are pretty beat up.

01:00:40 ◼   ► I think what they've currently done,

01:00:42 ◼   ► like with the Pro lines, the flat-sided iPad Pros,

01:00:46 ◼   ► they've had some amount of accessory continuity,

01:00:49 ◼   ► But I don't think you can hope for accessory continuity

01:00:52 ◼   ► anymore for any longer stretches than you get

01:00:55 ◼   ► on the laptops, right?

01:00:57 ◼   ► Not that laptops have many accessories,

01:00:58 ◼   ► but there are generational form factor changes

01:01:01 ◼   ► and there's no way that Apple is going to make an accessory

01:01:04 ◼   ► or a form factor change with an eye towards making

01:01:08 ◼   ► the same accessory work across generations like that.

01:01:10 ◼   ► They just won't.

01:01:11 ◼   ► The cameras will change and move.

01:01:13 ◼   ► They will decide it's a different size,

01:01:14 ◼   ► a different shape, has different accessories,

01:01:16 ◼   ► different ports, different attachment things

01:01:17 ◼   ► for the pencil.

01:01:19 ◼   ► there's no way that they're going to have that continuity.

01:01:22 ◼   ► And on the phone, occasionally they've had multiple years

01:01:26 ◼   ► in a row where you could share accessories,

01:01:27 ◼   ► but that's about it.

01:01:29 ◼   ► And the phone is probably the closest analog,

01:01:31 ◼   ► because why do they keep changing size and shape?

01:01:33 ◼   ► Well, arguably the phone has even less reason

01:01:35 ◼   ► to change size and shape, because the possible forms,

01:01:38 ◼   ► the possible sizes for phones are much more narrow

01:01:41 ◼   ► than an iPad, which goes from the mini to the 12.9 inch

01:01:45 ◼   ► and could go even bigger than that.

01:01:46 ◼   ► There's plenty of room for a bigger iPad

01:01:48 ◼   ► we talked about all the time,

01:01:49 ◼   ► and the cameras move around, all the buttons move around,

01:01:53 ◼   ► I don't think you're ever gonna see continuity in that area.

01:01:56 ◼   ► It would be nice if they could at least have continuity

01:01:58 ◼   ► of attachment point and then just have

01:02:01 ◼   ► the cutouts be different or whatever.

01:02:03 ◼   ► But I mean, if you think of it,

01:02:07 ◼   ► you don't have continuity of keyboards across laptops

01:02:09 ◼   ► 'cause when you buy a new laptop,

01:02:10 ◼   ► it comes with its own new keyboard

01:02:11 ◼   ► that exactly fits that laptop 'cause they don't detach.

01:02:13 ◼   ► They're not detachable.

01:02:14 ◼   ► but because the iPad is a floppy keyboard sold a la carte,

01:02:19 ◼   ► you have to end up buying the accessories

01:02:22 ◼   ► and you should count yourself lucky

01:02:23 ◼   ► if like Casey your accessory actually lasts

01:02:25 ◼   ► through more than one device.

01:02:26 ◼   ► But I don't think,

01:02:28 ◼   ► you know, we're not like we're gonna reach a point

01:02:29 ◼   ► where they say, well, we're done with the cameras,

01:02:30 ◼   ► we're not gonna improve them anymore.

01:02:32 ◼   ► And I also don't think Apple's gonna do the thing

01:02:33 ◼   ► where they say, let's make a camera race that's massive

01:02:36 ◼   ► that will hold us for the next 10 years

01:02:37 ◼   ► 'cause that's just not the Apple way.

01:02:39 ◼   ► - To that end though, the Magic Keyboard, right?

01:02:43 ◼   ► not the folio, but the magic keyboard,

01:02:45 ◼   ► the cantilever thing.

01:02:46 ◼   ► Mine is definitely showing its age

01:02:48 ◼   ► after just a couple of years.

01:02:49 ◼   ► And I don't travel with my iPad,

01:02:52 ◼   ► I shouldn't say travel.

01:02:53 ◼   ► I don't bring my iPad everywhere.

01:02:55 ◼   ► I use it probably daily,

01:02:58 ◼   ► and I will often bring it in the car or something

01:03:01 ◼   ► if I'm gonna be a passenger for a while.

01:03:03 ◼   ► But it is definitely showing its age.

01:03:05 ◼   ► Like some of the outer,

01:03:07 ◼   ► I don't know how to describe this,

01:03:08 ◼   ► but like the outer thin layers kind of peeling away

01:03:11 ◼   ► to show the interior layer on some of the edges

01:03:14 ◼   ► and in some spots.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And yeah, it is a wear item at, what is this,

01:03:18 ◼   ► like 350 bucks that I paid for this,

01:03:20 ◼   ► or something like that, whatever scene amount of money is.

01:03:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, 300, I think it's like 300 and 350

01:03:24 ◼   ► for the two sizes.

01:03:25 ◼   ► - Wait 'til you find out how much brake pads cost.

01:03:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, right. (laughs)

01:03:28 ◼   ► - A lot of that's labor though, so still.

01:03:30 ◼   ► - Especially if you drive a German car, let me tell you.

01:03:33 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, it's 300 bucks,

01:03:35 ◼   ► I think you are right, Marco.

01:03:36 ◼   ► - Does the car's nationality make it drive faster

01:03:39 ◼   ► and need more braking?

01:03:40 ◼   ► - And it does make the parts more expensive.

01:03:42 ◼   ► - It makes the parts more expensive.

01:03:44 ◼   ► But I did play very briefly with Magic Keyboard Folio

01:03:47 ◼   ► in the new iPad 10th generation.

01:03:50 ◼   ► I only spent just 30, 45 seconds with it,

01:03:53 ◼   ► but I mean, it was nice.

01:03:54 ◼   ► I liked it, I don't have too much to say about it.

01:03:56 ◼   ► I agree that kickstands are not really my jam

01:03:59 ◼   ► 'cause I do use my iPad on my lap,

01:04:01 ◼   ► especially in the car, but not exclusively in the car,

01:04:03 ◼   ► kind of a lot, and kickstands are not a great fit for that.

01:04:06 ◼   ► I do like the kind of tearability of this new Magic Keyboard Folio where you can just

01:04:12 ◼   ► kind of like tear the iPad off of it and the keyboard is kind of left behind and you still

01:04:17 ◼   ► have the kickstand attached.

01:04:18 ◼   ► But honestly it's not particularly hard to get the iPad out of the Magic Keyboard, the

01:04:23 ◼   ► cantilevered Magic Keyboard.

01:04:25 ◼   ► So I don't think this is for me, obviously, but if you're a folio kickstandy kind of person

01:04:32 ◼   ► then it's nice.

01:04:33 ◼   ► But yeah, my new iPad, I like it.

01:04:37 ◼   ► It is not a revolutionary change from the 2018 model, which I knew.

01:04:43 ◼   ► One of the things I like about it is that it does have 5G and much faster cellular,

01:04:48 ◼   ► because I am a huge fan, as I think we covered last week, huge fan of cellular iPads.

01:04:53 ◼   ► And so I am looking forward to being able to use this on my beloved "Don't Call It a

01:04:56 ◼   ► Park Bench but Picnic" table and get my, hypothetically, get my ridiculously fast speeds.

01:05:02 ◼   ► I was very flummoxed for a moment as I was doing the transfer from one iPad to the other

01:05:07 ◼   ► because it wouldn't let me just port the cellular account.

01:05:11 ◼   ► And I was like, "What?"

01:05:13 ◼   ► And it said that it was there, but it was like grayed out.

01:05:15 ◼   ► Like I couldn't port it from the old iPad.

01:05:17 ◼   ► And I was like, "What?

01:05:18 ◼   ► Oh, oh right, this has an actual physical SIM.

01:05:20 ◼   ► How quickly we forget what physical SIMs are?"

01:05:23 ◼   ► So I just had a brain fart and I didn't even remember it.

01:05:28 ◼   ► It is a little weird though that this M2 equipped iPad Pro is on paper kind of sort of more

01:05:35 ◼   ► powerful than the MacBook Pro I'm talking to you on right now.

01:05:38 ◼   ► I looked up Geekbench scores.

01:05:40 ◼   ► I only spent a moment on this, but I found a Geekbench score that I think is for an equivalent

01:05:44 ◼   ► of my M1 Max MacBook Pro.

01:05:47 ◼   ► Single core score 1337, lite.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Multi core 10, 155.

01:05:52 ◼   ► So 1337, 10,155.

01:05:55 ◼   ► On the M2 MacBook Air, because I couldn't find one on the iPad Pro, M2 MacBook Air,

01:06:00 ◼   ► which hypothetically should be the same, single core is 1930, so a change of about 44% if

01:06:06 ◼   ► I did that math right, so it's 1930 instead of 1337.

01:06:10 ◼   ► Multi-core score is down a bit though, 8926 instead of 10155.

01:06:15 ◼   ► So in single core anyway, this iPad is faster than my computer, even though iPadOS is crippling

01:06:22 ◼   ► it in every measurable way, but that's neither here nor there.

01:06:25 ◼   ► It's a weird feeling.

01:06:26 ◼   ► I'm not sure how I feel about that, but nevertheless, it's fast.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I like it.

01:06:31 ◼   ► The transfer process was a little bit wonky, but all in all, it worked mostly okay.

01:06:38 ◼   ► One of the things that I really love about Apple, I just love this, is that there are

01:06:42 ◼   ► times when there's a spinner and that's it.

01:06:47 ◼   ► It's just spinning.

01:06:48 ◼   ► I don't have a progress bar.

01:06:50 ◼   ► I don't have any feedback.

01:06:52 ◼   ► No sort of log or anything I can look at.

01:06:54 ◼   ► Nope, just spinning.

01:06:56 ◼   ► You should count yourself lucky to have a spinner,

01:06:58 ◼   ► because the ailment that I see in a lot of Apple's UIs,

01:07:01 ◼   ► they do this thing that I've been conditioned by years

01:07:03 ◼   ► as a web developer never to do, which is you do something

01:07:07 ◼   ► to go to the next step in a process, click a button,

01:07:10 ◼   ► tap a link, enter something in a field or whatever.

01:07:13 ◼   ► And before you get to the point where it shows a spinner

01:07:16 ◼   ► or any kind of progress, there is this long period of time

01:07:19 ◼   ► where all of the controls on the screen that you're on

01:07:22 ◼   ► are still perfectly active, still sitting there.

01:07:24 ◼   ► that button that you pressed,

01:07:25 ◼   ► it may have even highlighted when you pressed it.

01:07:27 ◼   ► It could be a button that says next, continue, save, update,

01:07:30 ◼   ► whatever it is that you think you did.

01:07:32 ◼   ► You pressed it, maybe if you're lucky,

01:07:34 ◼   ► you saw it highlight when you pressed it.

01:07:36 ◼   ► And there's this period of time

01:07:38 ◼   ► where the page is just staring at you going like,

01:07:40 ◼   ► yeah, here I am on the screen

01:07:42 ◼   ► that you just thought you interacted with, right?

01:07:44 ◼   ► Nothing on the screen, absolutely nothing.

01:07:46 ◼   ► And then six seconds later, oh, a spinner appears.

01:07:50 ◼   ► It's like, that is the worst, because I understand,

01:07:54 ◼   ► Maybe it's like there's a lag or a server thing or whatever,

01:07:56 ◼   ► but because on the web you're accustomed to the idea

01:07:59 ◼   ► that you are distant from your user,

01:08:01 ◼   ► you must provide immediate feedback that says,

01:08:04 ◼   ► disable the Submit button,

01:08:08 ◼   ► cover the screen with something immediately.

01:08:11 ◼   ► Client-side, let them know that you have successfully

01:08:13 ◼   ► performed an operation that we are then going

01:08:16 ◼   ► to do something about.

01:08:17 ◼   ► You don't have to click anymore.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Don't try to interact with the screen anymore.

01:08:21 ◼   ► You're done with the screen.

01:08:22 ◼   ► You have to communicate that immediately,

01:08:24 ◼   ► not in a way that requires you to get a response

01:08:26 ◼   ► from a server before you do that.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I cannot count the number of things I've done with Apple,

01:08:30 ◼   ► including things like buying stuff or whatever,

01:08:32 ◼   ► where you interact with the screen,

01:08:34 ◼   ► and then it just sits there staring at you,

01:08:36 ◼   ► looking exactly like it did before you interacted with it,

01:08:38 ◼   ► and you're like, okay, did that work?

01:08:42 ◼   ► Should I press it?

01:08:45 ◼   ► Oh, a spinner, okay.

01:08:46 ◼   ► The worst, the worst Apple.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Apple University, there should be,

01:08:50 ◼   ► I know that's not what Apple University is about,

01:08:51 ◼   ► but there should be an Apple University

01:08:53 ◼   ► that reminds people of the basic rules of user interface.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Let the user know immediately

01:08:57 ◼   ► that they have successfully done the thing

01:08:59 ◼   ► and do not let them attempt to do anything else.

01:09:01 ◼   ► I'm smart enough not to go back

01:09:03 ◼   ► and start stabbing at the screen,

01:09:04 ◼   ► but how many people are just like,

01:09:05 ◼   ► "Oh, did that work?

01:09:06 ◼   ► "Let me press it again, let me press it again."

01:09:08 ◼   ► Disable the buttons, cover the screen,

01:09:10 ◼   ► put something up immediately.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Anyway, rant over.

01:09:12 ◼   ► - Well, so I was at the stage, enter iPad passcode,

01:09:16 ◼   ► you know, and it says,

01:09:17 ◼   ► "The passcode you used to unlock this iPad

01:09:18 ◼   ► "will also be used to access safe passwords

01:09:19 ◼   ► and other sensitive data you store in iCloud. So I entered it and the next or

01:09:24 ◼   ► continue or done whatever button in the upper right hand corner of this like

01:09:27 ◼   ► window turned into a spinner and I waited and I waited and I waited. I have

01:09:34 ◼   ► no idea what's happening. It would be super cool Apple if you could give me

01:09:38 ◼   ► any amount of feedback as to whether or not this is progressing. So eventually I

01:09:44 ◼   ► mashed down on the lock button and it puts puts up a little like alert saying

01:09:47 ◼   ► "Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

01:09:48 ◼   ► you haven't done setting up.

01:09:50 ◼   ► You haven't finished setting up.

01:09:51 ◼   ► What do you wanna do here?"

01:09:52 ◼   ► - How long was eventually?

01:09:53 ◼   ► - I don't know, I think I had like five minutes, maybe.

01:09:56 ◼   ► And maybe it was spinning, who knows?

01:09:58 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:09:59 ◼   ► - I feel like the amount of time

01:10:00 ◼   ► that you wait in an indeterminate spinner

01:10:02 ◼   ► is sort of like, it's always based on your estimation

01:10:05 ◼   ► of how long you think this should take,

01:10:07 ◼   ► and also your estimation of the,

01:10:09 ◼   ► what are the consequences

01:10:11 ◼   ► if I interrupt this in the middle and it screws stuff up.

01:10:13 ◼   ► Setting up an iPad, consequences don't seem that bad.

01:10:15 ◼   ► You haven't actually done anything yet,

01:10:16 ◼   ► It's not filled with your stuff yet, or even if it is,

01:10:18 ◼   ► you can always redo it.

01:10:19 ◼   ► So you might have not much patience there,

01:10:21 ◼   ► but there are other operations where you're like,

01:10:22 ◼   ► I'm literally gonna let this sit overnight

01:10:24 ◼   ► because if it screws up, I'm gonna have a real problem.

01:10:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.

01:10:28 ◼   ► But please, Apple, I know you're allergic

01:10:31 ◼   ► to providing any sort of, I don't know,

01:10:33 ◼   ► useful friggin' feedback about what's going on,

01:10:35 ◼   ► but it would be nice if, hey, I don't know,

01:10:38 ◼   ► maybe you could give us a little bit of feedback

01:10:41 ◼   ► other than it's spinning.

01:10:43 ◼   ► It's spinning.

01:10:45 ◼   ► It's spinning, like come on, please.

01:10:48 ◼   ► Please. - At least you got

01:10:49 ◼   ► the spinner. - That's true.

01:10:50 ◼   ► So anyway, so what I ended up doing was shutting it down,

01:10:52 ◼   ► restarting it, and to Apple's credit,

01:10:54 ◼   ► like, you know, everything came up,

01:10:55 ◼   ► and when I went to settings, it was like,

01:10:57 ◼   ► oh, you're not finished setting up your iPad.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Let's continue where you left off.

01:10:59 ◼   ► - And by not finished setting up,

01:11:00 ◼   ► it means you haven't signed up for Apple Arcade yet.

01:11:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, true. (laughing)

01:11:05 ◼   ► But the most annoying thing, and it actually did--

01:11:06 ◼   ► - More ads, just more ads.

01:11:09 ◼   ► - So the most annoying thing about it, though,

01:11:10 ◼   ► in my personal opinion, is test flight apps,

01:11:14 ◼   ► which maybe this is like a, this is a,

01:11:16 ◼   ► it's fine for Marco Merlin, whatever sort of thing,

01:11:18 ◼   ► but TestFlight apps don't do any sort of auto downloading,

01:11:21 ◼   ► like TestFlight itself auto downloads,

01:11:22 ◼   ► but then you have to go in and like download them all.

01:11:24 ◼   ► And on the iPad anyway,

01:11:26 ◼   ► it didn't put them back in the location,

01:11:27 ◼   ► the icons back in locations I wanted the icons,

01:11:30 ◼   ► you know, from the last iPad.

01:11:31 ◼   ► I think it might've done that properly on the phone,

01:11:33 ◼   ► I don't recall, but that was really frustrating.

01:11:35 ◼   ► I'd really like it if Apple could fix that.

01:11:37 ◼   ► The time estimate it gave for the transfer

01:11:39 ◼   ► was under promised and over delivered,

01:11:41 ◼   ► so I was happy about that.

01:11:42 ◼   ► It took me about an hour and change, I think,

01:11:45 ◼   ► something along those lines.

01:11:46 ◼   ► But all in all, it's nice.

01:11:47 ◼   ► The hover thing is cool.

01:11:50 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know if it's really doing much for me,

01:11:52 ◼   ► but it's neat that it works in that it, you know,

01:11:54 ◼   ► when you're using the pencil as kind of like a pointer,

01:11:58 ◼   ► it feels very similar to basically the same, in fact,

01:12:01 ◼   ► as having the point, you know, the mouse pointer

01:12:03 ◼   ► or cursor or whatever, the mouse pointer, you know,

01:12:06 ◼   ► jiggling around the screen, which is neat.

01:12:08 ◼   ► I like it when you're writing a note,

01:12:09 ◼   ► you can see a little dot for where you're about

01:12:11 ◼   ► start writing in Notes. Yeah, I like it. There's nothing about this that has revolutionized my world

01:12:17 ◼   ► yet, but I am happy to have a four-year newer battery. I'm happy to have a four-year less

01:12:22 ◼   ► damaged screen. Not that I dropped it or anything, just the other one has a lot of scratches.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I'm happy to have 5G. So far so good. And I'm genuinely very, very happy that the old accessories

01:12:33 ◼   ► do indeed, though they're the ones I care about anyway, do indeed still work with this, which was

01:12:38 ◼   ► a welcome chain. I mean I knew that was supposed to be the case but it's not the

01:12:43 ◼   ► way it often is so I'm pretty happy about that. So far I would say if

01:12:47 ◼   ► you're coming off a 2018 or newer model, yeah, I mean do you want to spend a whole

01:12:51 ◼   ► bunch of money or do you not? But if you're coming off of something older or

01:12:54 ◼   ► perhaps not an iPad Pro, heck yeah man, go for it. It's good stuff.

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01:14:49 ◼   ► - All right, let's talk about Ventura 16.1,

01:14:54 ◼   ► and iPadOS 16.1 and so on.

01:14:57 ◼   ► I really, really, really wanna talk about stage manager,

01:15:00 ◼   ► but let's save that for a moment.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Did you know system preferences on Ventura

01:15:05 ◼   ► is a hot friggin' mess?

01:15:07 ◼   ► Oh my God, why didn't anyone say anything about this?

01:15:10 ◼   ► It's terrible!

01:15:11 ◼   ► - I think you mean system settings.

01:15:14 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, whatever.

01:15:16 ◼   ► No, it is bad.

01:15:17 ◼   ► It doesn't look good.

01:15:20 ◼   ► I don't think it functions well.

01:15:22 ◼   ► I think there are decent bones here

01:15:24 ◼   ► and I think it could get better,

01:15:25 ◼   ► but ooh, it is not good right now.

01:15:28 ◼   ► Do not want.

01:15:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've only used it briefly.

01:15:32 ◼   ► So we were saying earlier about how

01:15:35 ◼   ► the login items thing has changed.

01:15:37 ◼   ► There are areas of it that are better.

01:15:40 ◼   ► There is new functionality.

01:15:42 ◼   ► There is old functionality that has been improved,

01:15:45 ◼   ► like some of the ways that you had to give permissions

01:15:47 ◼   ► for certain things earlier or approve kernel extensions

01:15:50 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

01:15:51 ◼   ► the way in the old System Preferences app was a disaster.

01:15:55 ◼   ► Anything that had the lock on the bottom of the screen,

01:15:57 ◼   ► you had to first notice that, unlock it.

01:16:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

01:16:02 ◼   ► - There were so many things about the old Settings app,

01:16:04 ◼   ► the System Preferences app, rather,

01:16:06 ◼   ► that were terrible and that needed to be improved.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And so this is not to say that we should necessarily

01:16:14 ◼   ► keep it the same forever the way it used to be.

01:16:16 ◼   ► However, the new settings app is just a really cheap

01:16:21 ◼   ► and crappy feeling.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Like it feels like a web view.

01:16:26 ◼   ► It feels like a non-native app.

01:16:29 ◼   ► It feels like something that we would make fun of.

01:16:32 ◼   ► - Web views are resizable.

01:16:33 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:16:35 ◼   ► Yeah, like it just, it does not feel like

01:16:38 ◼   ► a high quality app.

01:16:39 ◼   ► It does not fit in with the system at all.

01:16:42 ◼   ► It is, like all the little dumb little like iOS switches

01:16:45 ◼   ► that I have to now control with a mouse awkwardly.

01:16:48 ◼   ► Apple has been arguing for years,

01:16:51 ◼   ► touch interfaces and computer,

01:16:54 ◼   ► like desktop, laptop interfaces are different.

01:16:57 ◼   ► And it's best to design them differently

01:17:00 ◼   ► and optimize for their respective inputs and input methods.

01:17:05 ◼   ► I guess all that logic went out the window

01:17:07 ◼   ► because now they've brought over

01:17:08 ◼   ► like iOS switch controls and stuff

01:17:10 ◼   ► that make no sense on the Mac

01:17:13 ◼   ► in the name of, I guess, consistency,

01:17:15 ◼   ► but I think it's more like they don't have

01:17:17 ◼   ► any more engineers working inside of Apple

01:17:19 ◼   ► who know AppKit, and so they're forced

01:17:22 ◼   ► to use all of this, like, SwiftUI.

01:17:24 ◼   ► I don't know, but whatever it is,

01:17:27 ◼   ► they've changed this major part of the Mac.

01:17:30 ◼   ► The settings app is a major part of the Mac.

01:17:33 ◼   ► Alongside some of the good they have done

01:17:35 ◼   ► with the additional functionality

01:17:36 ◼   ► and the rethinking of some of the crappier areas

01:17:38 ◼   ► of the old system preferences app,

01:17:40 ◼   ► alongside of that, they've wrapped this all

01:17:42 ◼   ► in this pretty terrible UI.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Both the technical bones of it, I think,

01:17:48 ◼   ► are really kind of sloppy, and more importantly,