ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► How much do I have to derail this show so we don't get to talking about Elon Musk a lot challenge accepted

00:00:07 ◼   ► You could probably do it by yourself you and me together our powers combined could absolutely do it

00:00:14 ◼   ► We're gonna say really mean things about him probably. Oh, that's the last thing I want to do though

00:00:20 ◼   ► Because then everyone gets angry at us. I'd rather just say nothing about him. I just I just don't like him so much

00:00:25 ◼   ► Here we go. Let's let's do it. We're talking about let's the derail immediately

00:00:28 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:00:30 ◼   ► I had to restore both of my home pods today.

00:00:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:34 ◼   ► - Oh gosh, how does that even happen?

00:00:36 ◼   ► - So remember how I said a few weeks ago,

00:00:39 ◼   ► you know, they've been working really well,

00:00:40 ◼   ► they seem to have stopped breaking,

00:00:41 ◼   ► and they've been working really well.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Well that came to a screeching halt

00:00:45 ◼   ► over the last week or so,

00:00:46 ◼   ► where they've been working very poorly.

00:00:49 ◼   ► You know, it's a stereo pair,

00:00:50 ◼   ► and sometimes one would just drop out

00:00:53 ◼   ► until I would unplug it and plug it back in.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Which one it was would change over time.

00:00:58 ◼   ► Sometimes it was doing that thing where it was crashing

00:01:01 ◼   ► in the middle of a response and restarting itself.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Like it would say part of the response

00:01:04 ◼   ► and then it would say, "Let me try that again."

00:01:06 ◼   ► And then like say the same thing.

00:01:07 ◼   ► - What? - Yes.

00:01:08 ◼   ► - That's a thing? - Yes it is.

00:01:10 ◼   ► And it's doing it more and more.

00:01:12 ◼   ► - It sounds like Apple made their own

00:01:13 ◼   ► automatic kicking machine.

00:01:14 ◼   ► - They did. - Right?

00:01:15 ◼   ► - They totally did. - Wow, that's a throwback.

00:01:17 ◼   ► That's a throwback. - That's a thing.

00:01:18 ◼   ► And then eventually, and of course, you know,

00:01:20 ◼   ► and so we actually, so first of all,

00:01:23 ◼   ► for the music project, thank God we hit the end.

00:01:28 ◼   ► So there's a clear, so remember, I was saying how

00:01:31 ◼   ► 2000 to 2006 was a pretty rough time.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Like the music got much angrier and dirtier

00:01:37 ◼   ► and much more explicit and it was pretty rough.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Well then it seemed to get better from about 2007 or so,

00:01:45 ◼   ► 2008 maybe.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Now I don't know if you recall maybe,

00:01:49 ◼   ► who was president between 2000 and 2008?

00:01:52 ◼   ► And then, so that was a really angry period.

00:01:55 ◼   ► And then we had a change and from 2008 until about 2016,

00:02:00 ◼   ► it was much happier and much, much less angry and explicit.

00:02:08 ◼   ► And then I swear 2017 to 2020 took another massive dark turn.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Like I swear, listen to, go to Apple Music and say,

00:02:20 ◼   ► pop hits X for whatever year you want.

00:02:23 ◼   ► It's clear as day, it's a very clear difference.

00:02:27 ◼   ► You can tell, what was the culture feeling?

00:02:29 ◼   ► Was the culture angry?

00:02:30 ◼   ► Was the culture frustrated?

00:02:32 ◼   ► Was the culture partying?

00:02:34 ◼   ► You can feel all those things in the music.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Trust me, it's worth seeing.

00:02:39 ◼   ► But anyway, so we've gone back now,

00:02:42 ◼   ► and we decided to go back and do the rock chart

00:02:46 ◼   ► instead of the pop chart.

00:02:48 ◼   ► The rock chart didn't actually exist until,

00:02:50 ◼   ► at least in Apple Music, until 1956, or 1965, rather.

00:02:55 ◼   ► But they have pop charts going back to 1955.

00:02:59 ◼   ► So we actually started 1955 pop,

00:03:01 ◼   ► and we're gonna do that until we get to '65,

00:03:02 ◼   ► then we're gonna switch over to rock.

00:03:04 ◼   ► And we're hearing so much stuff,

00:03:05 ◼   ► so many songs that I'm like, oh my god,

00:03:08 ◼   ► the version of this that I knew

00:03:09 ◼   ► was actually a cover of this?

00:03:11 ◼   ► - Oh, what was the Spin Doctors,

00:03:13 ◼   ► no, was it not Spin Doctors?

00:03:15 ◼   ► It was some song that, oh, now I'm gonna have to look it up.

00:03:18 ◼   ► There was some song that I had no idea was a cover

00:03:21 ◼   ► and I just recently discovered this

00:03:23 ◼   ► and it blew my freaking mind.

00:03:25 ◼   ► And the funniest part is the original was also incredible.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Crud, what was that?

00:03:32 ◼   ► All right, I'm gonna just interrupt you in a second

00:03:33 ◼   ► when I figure it out, but I have it on a playlist,

00:03:36 ◼   ► the original and it's off to find in a second.

00:03:38 ◼   ► - And there were so many songs too where like,

00:03:40 ◼   ► they're not officially credited, I think, as covers,

00:03:43 ◼   ► but they clearly like drew,

00:03:45 ◼   ► like they clearly like just lifted the whole melody

00:03:47 ◼   ► of a certain song.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Usually it was like a jazz artist in the 50s who them like some you know

00:03:52 ◼   ► White guy in the 60s lifted it and or in the 80s or in the 90s

00:03:56 ◼   ► Like I heard we heard this one song yesterday

00:03:58 ◼   ► And I'm like this is just I want candy like I want candy just completely ripped off

00:04:03 ◼   ► But it was and it was some jazz song. I never heard of like this is it was so incredibly similar today

00:04:08 ◼   ► I heard a song that I'm pretty sure surfing USA ripped off

00:04:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I think Margot you need to spend some time on YouTube

00:04:13 ◼   ► But there's a whole sub-genre on YouTube of is song X a ripoff of song Y, Y or Y not. Oh, yeah, you'll find that highly

00:04:20 ◼   ► educational. Follow-up, real-time follow-up. It is hard to handle by Otis Redding as covered not by the spin doctors

00:04:26 ◼   ► But instead by the Black Crows, my mistake. Okay, that's a pretty different band, but okay.

00:04:32 ◼   ► It is and you will absolutely recognize at least the Black Crows version

00:04:36 ◼   ► When you hear that and then if you were to hear the Otis Redding version

00:04:39 ◼   ► It is not that particularly different,

00:04:41 ◼   ► but it is also stunningly great.

00:04:44 ◼   ► I will say, I have possibly the best playlist

00:04:48 ◼   ► in all of music history, which is all funk and soul music,

00:04:51 ◼   ► from about the '60s, and it is something like 50 or 60 songs

00:04:56 ◼   ► that are just perfection from top to bottom.

00:04:58 ◼   ► So I just wanted to share that with everyone.

00:05:00 ◼   ► And this is on it, that's how I could find it so quickly.

00:05:02 ◼   ► - And there's a lot of, last time we did this,

00:05:05 ◼   ► we started in 1960, and we were at first,

00:05:08 ◼   ► until all the ATP listeners wrote in to say pop hits X.

00:05:11 ◼   ► And when I was just doing play the top songs from year X

00:05:13 ◼   ► and it would play at the top,

00:05:14 ◼   ► it would say play the top 25

00:05:15 ◼   ► and then it would play the top seven and then wander off.

00:05:19 ◼   ► So we're hearing a lot more now than we did before.

00:05:21 ◼   ► And there are so many good songs in the,

00:05:24 ◼   ► I mean, you know, it still sounds like the 50s,

00:05:26 ◼   ► but there's a lot of good music from back then.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Like we just hit Tequila, the song from Pee Wee's Big Adventure

00:05:30 ◼   ► like I didn't realize that was from the 50s.

00:05:32 ◼   ► I would have guessed, you know, 60s,

00:05:34 ◼   ► but like, oh man, there's so much like good stuff in here

00:05:36 ◼   ► and it's so refreshing to be able to just hit play

00:05:39 ◼   ► and not have to worry like every song transition,

00:05:42 ◼   ► wait, do we have to skip this 'cause Adam's here

00:05:43 ◼   ► or because we don't wanna hear all this dirtyness?

00:05:45 ◼   ► - Didn't you, like everyone gave you the solution to that.

00:05:48 ◼   ► It was like the turn off explicit content on the HomePod,

00:05:50 ◼   ► did you just never hit that switch?

00:05:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I didn't, I forgot about that.

00:05:54 ◼   ► I was too busy trying to get the HomePods to work.

00:05:55 ◼   ► - You should just do it.

00:05:56 ◼   ► It'll save you, it'll save you some trouble later

00:05:59 ◼   ► 'cause I'm pretty sure the Rock hits

00:06:00 ◼   ► are gonna have some words in there too.

00:06:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, but not for a while.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Like, you know, we have a few decades to go before

00:06:06 ◼   ► Those are really in there, at least in any significant quantity.

00:06:10 ◼   ► There's certainly innuendo, but I mean, heck, there's innuendo in the 50s songs.

00:06:13 ◼   ► It's just different innuendo.

00:06:14 ◼   ► You're gonna get the radio edit of "Creep," which I think is better than the one with

00:06:19 ◼   ► Carzing.

00:06:20 ◼   ► I agree, actually.

00:06:21 ◼   ► When I first heard the version of "Creep" that had the F-word in it, I was like, "Oh,

00:06:23 ◼   ► that's actually less of a good song."

00:06:26 ◼   ► It didn't fit, you know?

00:06:27 ◼   ► I freaking love radio edit, and "Creep" has never done much for me, which probably

00:06:31 ◼   ► makes me completely without taste.

00:06:33 ◼   ► But hi, welcome to the last eight years.

00:06:35 ◼   ► - No comment.

00:06:36 ◼   ► - So anyway, so my home pods were like exploding

00:06:38 ◼   ► and I was trying to figure out,

00:06:40 ◼   ► all right, what do I do here?

00:06:41 ◼   ► A few people had commented over the times

00:06:44 ◼   ► that I was complaining about this

00:06:45 ◼   ► that doing a full restore fixed them for a while.

00:06:49 ◼   ► - Why don't you just restore your home pods?

00:06:51 ◼   ► - I know, right?

00:06:51 ◼   ► Well, I mean, look, it works for the Apple Watch.

00:06:54 ◼   ► I'm like, all right, so let me give this a shot.

00:06:56 ◼   ► So I did the full restore of both.

00:06:58 ◼   ► You plug it in while holding it down,

00:06:59 ◼   ► it spins red and then it tells you it's gonna reset.

00:07:02 ◼   ► It's a pretty easy process.

00:07:04 ◼   ► I actually got them both done and repaired

00:07:06 ◼   ► in a matter of maybe 20 minutes or less even.

00:07:09 ◼   ► It was quick.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It's been working better.

00:07:12 ◼   ► But I did.

00:07:13 ◼   ► I started looking.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I'm like, what if these do die?

00:07:16 ◼   ► And if it seems like it's both a physical flaw that all home

00:07:21 ◼   ► pods have, the whole thing about slowly frying

00:07:23 ◼   ► one of their components with some weird power.

00:07:25 ◼   ► So there's a physical flaw they seem to all have over time.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And the big home pod actually runs different software

00:07:33 ◼   ► than the HomePod Mini.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So my theory is, well, they're probably gonna

00:07:37 ◼   ► slowly let more and more bugs creep into the big one

00:07:39 ◼   ► that just kinda never get fixed,

00:07:41 ◼   ► whereas the little one seems to work better.

00:07:43 ◼   ► We have both in the house.

00:07:44 ◼   ► We have little ones in little rooms,

00:07:46 ◼   ► and they work much better, much more reliably and faster.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So if my HomePods die, I might be able to briefly

00:07:53 ◼   ► get along with finding new ones on eBay,

00:07:55 ◼   ► but eventually I'm not gonna be able to do that anymore.

00:07:57 ◼   ► And so let me take a look at what other

00:08:00 ◼   ► AirPlay 2 compatible speakers exist.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Now helpfully, Apple maintains such a list on their website.

00:08:07 ◼   ► So I went through and opened up every single page

00:08:10 ◼   ► on that list.

00:08:12 ◼   ► This was disheartening.

00:08:14 ◼   ► I would say at least half, maybe even 2/3 of them,

00:08:17 ◼   ► were 404s.

00:08:18 ◼   ► - Cool.

00:08:19 ◼   ► - Just all these old products that were,

00:08:22 ◼   ► or they were valid page responses,

00:08:24 ◼   ► but it was for discontinued products.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Many others were like soundbars,

00:08:29 ◼   ► which I'm not looking for.

00:08:31 ◼   ► 'cause this isn't going under a TV,

00:08:33 ◼   ► this is trying to be a speaker on my kitchen counter.

00:08:36 ◼   ► And many others were possibly useful for that purpose,

00:08:42 ◼   ► but ugly or very limited,

00:08:46 ◼   ► or they had a single two-inch driver in them.

00:08:49 ◼   ► And it's like, well, that's gonna sound like crap.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I could just have the HomePod Mini

00:08:53 ◼   ► if I want that kind of sound profile.

00:08:55 ◼   ► If I want a single, small driver doing all the work,

00:08:58 ◼   ► then I'll just get a HomePod Mini and put it up there.

00:09:01 ◼   ► But looking through this list, I was trying to figure out

00:09:03 ◼   ► is there anything that could directly replace them?

00:09:05 ◼   ► And the answer is pretty much no.

00:09:08 ◼   ► The biggest hurdles I've found are,

00:09:10 ◼   ► first of all, just the speaker configuration.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Most of them have, as I said,

00:09:14 ◼   ► maybe one small driver somewhere in there.

00:09:16 ◼   ► At best, maybe a passive radiator as the woofer,

00:09:19 ◼   ► similar, again, to the HomePod Mini.

00:09:21 ◼   ► But these are multi-hundred dollar products.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Or they're these massive, really high-end things

00:09:28 ◼   ► that are really huge that would be ridiculous

00:09:30 ◼   ► to put on a kitchen counter or wouldn't fit at all

00:09:32 ◼   ► and are very expensive.

00:09:35 ◼   ► The other issue is the voice assistant situation.

00:09:38 ◼   ► We've had the Alexa products in our house before.

00:09:41 ◼   ► We know what we get with that.

00:09:42 ◼   ► A decent voice assistant that's fast and reliable

00:09:46 ◼   ► but that is just relentlessly trying to get us

00:09:49 ◼   ► to give it more to do.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Hey, did you know you could also ask me

00:09:53 ◼   ► to do all your shopping for you?

00:09:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, it never used to be like that but it's gotten bad.

00:09:58 ◼   ► - Did you know?

00:09:59 ◼   ► You can make voice calls, just give me access

00:10:02 ◼   ► to all of your information and contacts

00:10:04 ◼   ► and let me beep at you and blink my light at you

00:10:06 ◼   ► in different colors that you have to then learn

00:10:08 ◼   ► how to disable, it's getting really bad.

00:10:10 ◼   ► And so I don't really want the Amazon Assistant

00:10:13 ◼   ► in my house, if I can help it.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Also, I have had poor luck with things like Sonos products

00:10:20 ◼   ► that have the Amazon Assistant built in,

00:10:22 ◼   ► where products that have the Amazon Assistant built in

00:10:26 ◼   ► but are not Amazon products,

00:10:28 ◼   ► tend to have a lesser version of it.

00:10:31 ◼   ► They tend to be very limited or have weird little bugs

00:10:34 ◼   ► or shortcomings that Amazon's own first party products

00:10:37 ◼   ► don't have, but Amazon's first party products

00:10:39 ◼   ► sound like crap.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And I also had a lot of reliability issues

00:10:42 ◼   ► with my last set of echoes,

00:10:44 ◼   ► and so I don't really wanna go that route.

00:10:47 ◼   ► I've heard that Google has a good assistant.

00:10:49 ◼   ► I've heard that from John,

00:10:50 ◼   ► I've heard that from lots of other people,

00:10:51 ◼   ► and so I have thought maybe I should try a speaker

00:10:55 ◼   ► with the Google Assistant built in,

00:10:57 ◼   ► but I just kind of feel dirty about that.

00:10:59 ◼   ► I don't like Google.

00:11:01 ◼   ► They're a really creepy and morally bankrupt company.

00:11:04 ◼   ► I think they get away with a lot

00:11:06 ◼   ► simply because Facebook is worse.

00:11:08 ◼   ► But Google is certainly no shining star

00:11:11 ◼   ► of morality and trust.

00:11:14 ◼   ► And so that's an option,

00:11:17 ◼   ► but I don't love that option.

00:11:20 ◼   ► And then Siri, well, we know what Siri is.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Siri is a really well-meaning, privacy-conscious,

00:11:26 ◼   ► frequently failing and very frustrating assistant

00:11:29 ◼   ► that works about two thirds of the time and poorly at that.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And Siri is only available in HomePods.

00:11:35 ◼   ► There are no, as far as I know,

00:11:36 ◼   ► there's no other speakers on the market

00:11:38 ◼   ► that have Siri built in.

00:11:40 ◼   ► And so if I want AirPlay 2 and Siri,

00:11:44 ◼   ► HomePods or HomePod minis are my only options.

00:11:46 ◼   ► If I want AirPlay 2 and I'm willing

00:11:48 ◼   ► to take Google Assistant, I have a few more options.

00:11:51 ◼   ► - I think there's gotta be something with Siri

00:11:53 ◼   ► because my thermostat, I believe, is an AirPlay speaker

00:11:56 ◼   ► and has Siri built in.

00:11:58 ◼   ► - They, yeah, remember when they did that demo,

00:12:01 ◼   ► or the keynote where they had like the big virtual house

00:12:03 ◼   ► and they were like CGI, like flying through it,

00:12:05 ◼   ► they talked about how they were adding some kind of program

00:12:09 ◼   ► to put Siri into things like thermostats,

00:12:11 ◼   ► but I think it's only in thermostats.

00:12:12 ◼   ► I don't think it's gotten any further than that yet.

00:12:14 ◼   ► You know, Apple does a lot of these programs

00:12:16 ◼   ► where they'll announce some kind of hardware integration

00:12:19 ◼   ► partnership program, and then, you know,

00:12:21 ◼   ► there's only ever one thing for it,

00:12:23 ◼   ► or no things ever released for it.

00:12:25 ◼   ► So, I don't know, until something comes out,

00:12:28 ◼   ► I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

00:12:30 ◼   ► But anyway, so it really showed me,

00:12:33 ◼   ► like doing this exercise, like what I landed on was

00:12:36 ◼   ► things I would be most interested in trying

00:12:38 ◼   ► would be a couple of decent, you know,

00:12:41 ◼   ► multi-driver speakers that had AirPlay 2 support

00:12:44 ◼   ► and Google Assistant built in.

00:12:47 ◼   ► And there's only a pretty small handful of those

00:12:49 ◼   ► and they're really expensive, over $1,000 expensive.

00:12:53 ◼   ► It really showed me like, wow,

00:12:56 ◼   ► the HomePod was actually not that bad of a deal

00:12:59 ◼   ► for what it was.

00:13:01 ◼   ► Like if you try to find that kind of speaker arrangement

00:13:05 ◼   ► or that kind of speaker capability,

00:13:07 ◼   ► like multiple mid-range/tweeter drivers,

00:13:10 ◼   ► a big subwoofer that's big for its size,

00:13:14 ◼   ► some kind of DSP to adjust things,

00:13:15 ◼   ► that's actually pretty uncommon

00:13:19 ◼   ► And it's especially uncommon for under $500.

00:13:22 ◼   ► I appreciate the HomePod even more now

00:13:24 ◼   ► that I tried to shop for its replacement.

00:13:26 ◼   ► And I'm even more hoping that Apple

00:13:29 ◼   ► is the one to replace it sometime

00:13:30 ◼   ► in the not too distant future, because nothing else really

00:13:34 ◼   ► will replace it unless I'm willing to compromise heavily

00:13:38 ◼   ► on some other aspect.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Good luck.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Couldn't you just separate the voice assistant

00:13:42 ◼   ► from the speaker part?

00:13:43 ◼   ► Like, get some other small, tardy thing

00:13:45 ◼   ► to be the voice assistant, but have that little voice assistant

00:13:48 ◼   ► use the speakers that you buy as their sound output source?

00:13:51 ◼   ► - I can, and I thought about that.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Downtise of that would be like, on a kitchen counter,

00:13:57 ◼   ► I don't want a whole bunch of boxes and wires.

00:14:00 ◼   ► I want something that's integrated for there.

00:14:02 ◼   ► If I'm gonna make a whole separate system,

00:14:04 ◼   ► well then I'll make a real speaker system,

00:14:06 ◼   ► like over by the TV or in my office,

00:14:08 ◼   ► I have a pair of passive speakers driven by an amp.

00:14:11 ◼   ► That I'm fine with in that kind of context.

00:14:13 ◼   ► But on the kitchen counter, you want something integrated.

00:14:16 ◼   ► And again, even looking at the HomePod and what it offers,

00:14:19 ◼   ► other products that offer similar multi-speaker driver

00:14:22 ◼   ► arrangements are not only more expensive than the HomePod,

00:14:25 ◼   ► but much bigger than it.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Apple did a really good job designing this product

00:14:30 ◼   ► that nobody except me wanted, because they made it

00:14:32 ◼   ► too expensive for what the market wanted.

00:14:34 ◼   ► But they made a really nice high-end product.

00:14:36 ◼   ► And I really hope they do it again sometime,

00:14:39 ◼   ► because the HomePod Mini is great in my bathroom

00:14:43 ◼   ► and not many other places.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And so I really want, I want that big HomePod back.

00:14:49 ◼   ► So I'm just hoping mine last as long as they can,

00:14:52 ◼   ► then who knows what I'll do after that.

00:14:54 ◼   ► But the looking around at the options was not promising.

00:14:59 ◼   ► - So it's that time of year once again.

00:15:02 ◼   ► It is time for ATP merch.

00:15:05 ◼   ► We talked about it last week,

00:15:06 ◼   ► we're talking about it this week.

00:15:07 ◼   ► And I believe we have one more episode

00:15:09 ◼   ► where I will remind you, is that right, John?

00:15:10 ◼   ► One more episode. - Yep.

00:15:13 ◼   ► - Where you will get your reminder to pull the car over,

00:15:15 ◼   ► to step aside, to do what you need to do,

00:15:18 ◼   ► to remember that it is time to go to ATP.fm/store.

00:15:23 ◼   ► - Alexa, remind me in one hour, buy ATP merch.

00:15:28 ◼   ► - You're a mean, mean person.

00:15:29 ◼   ► - Okay, Google, remind me in one hour, buy ATP merch.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Hey, Siri, remind me in one hour, buy ATP merch.

00:15:35 ◼   ► - Oh, Marc.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - How did that not activate any of our stuff?

00:15:39 ◼   ► - I don't know. - You leave that on?

00:15:40 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't know.

00:15:41 ◼   ► One of us has to have something.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Last time your watch interrupted the show.

00:15:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm wearing a regular watch tonight,

00:15:46 ◼   ► so just that wouldn't happen.

00:15:47 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:15:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, well anyways,

00:15:51 ◼   ► so we have several options available to you,

00:15:54 ◼   ► and remember that if you cannot buy anything right now,

00:15:58 ◼   ► that's fine, pull the car over,

00:15:59 ◼   ► step to the side of the sidewalk,

00:16:01 ◼   ► tell your children, hold on just one moment,

00:16:03 ◼   ► well, maybe you shouldn't do that,

00:16:04 ◼   ► but just do what you need to do.

00:16:06 ◼   ► Remember that Casey said, remember this moment.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Think about where you'll be

00:16:10 ◼   ► when you can order some ATP merch.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Envision that in your mind's eye,

00:16:14 ◼   ► and think about ordering that merch when you get there.

00:16:16 ◼   ► Do what you gotta do.

00:16:17 ◼   ► So what do we got?

00:16:18 ◼   ► We've got the M1 Ultra shirt

00:16:20 ◼   ► and the M1 Ultra Interposer shirt.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I won't belabor this too much,

00:16:23 ◼   ► but the M1 Ultra shirt is exactly what you would expect.

00:16:26 ◼   ► The M1 Ultra Interposer shirt is where it says max

00:16:29 ◼   ► adjacent to an upside down max,

00:16:31 ◼   ► which is a very, very, very good in-joke.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Marco, how good of an in-joke is this?

00:16:35 ◼   ► - It's actually selling quite well.

00:16:38 ◼   ► - It's like 5X what the Ultra shirt is selling, guys.

00:16:41 ◼   ► - 5 to 6X, but the regular one is.

00:16:44 ◼   ► And I think that's odd because I think,

00:16:47 ◼   ► not that I'm saying people should buy two shirts,

00:16:49 ◼   ► but like the joke works better in the context

00:16:53 ◼   ► of knowing that the regular shirt exists.

00:16:55 ◼   ► And if you just buy the joke one,

00:16:57 ◼   ► I'm probably gonna get both of them.

00:16:59 ◼   ► So who am I to talk?

00:17:00 ◼   ► Nevermind, continue.

00:17:01 ◼   ► - In any case, we've got both of those shirts.

00:17:04 ◼   ► They are black fabric with yellow ultra

00:17:08 ◼   ► or max max symbols on them.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And of course the multicolor M1.

00:17:12 ◼   ► Then if you prefer more color in your life,

00:17:14 ◼   ► we have the M1 Ultra shirt as you would expect,

00:17:16 ◼   ► but only Ultra, not Max Max,

00:17:18 ◼   ► and that is available in a rainbow of colors.

00:17:21 ◼   ► And then we have the traditional ATP logo shirt.

00:17:23 ◼   ► We have brought back the ATP hoodie,

00:17:25 ◼   ► as well as the planked glass and ATP mug

00:17:28 ◼   ► with a slight change that the ATP mug is gray on the inside,

00:17:31 ◼   ► not red, because #supplychain.

00:17:34 ◼   ► All of this stuff is available

00:17:36 ◼   ► until the evening of Saturday, April 30.

00:17:40 ◼   ► So please, if you don't mind, go to ATP.fm/store.

00:17:45 ◼   ► But hey, Jon, if people really just wanna support us,

00:17:48 ◼   ► and they don't necessarily need yet another podcast t-shirt,

00:17:51 ◼   ► even though the Interproza shirt is so freaking good,

00:17:53 ◼   ► what could they do, Jon, to support the show?

00:17:56 ◼   ► - You forgot to mention that if anyone is already

00:17:58 ◼   ► an ATP member or wants to become an ATP member,

00:18:00 ◼   ► you get 15% off if you go to your member page on ATP.fm.

00:18:05 ◼   ► You'll get there, you'll find a promo code,

00:18:06 ◼   ► you can put that into the little promo code field

00:18:09 ◼   ► during checkout and it will reduce the price for you.

00:18:12 ◼   ► So definitely all ATP members should remember to do that.

00:18:14 ◼   ► And if you just want to get 15% off,

00:18:16 ◼   ► just sign up for membership for one month,

00:18:17 ◼   ► use the code and then cancel your membership.

00:18:21 ◼   ► - No, stop.

00:18:22 ◼   ► - And a lot of people have been doing that.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I've seen the merch sale bump,

00:18:26 ◼   ► the member numbers are going to go up.

00:18:27 ◼   ► And then when the merch sales over,

00:18:28 ◼   ► the membership will go back down.

00:18:30 ◼   ► - No, they don't have to though.

00:18:31 ◼   ► - You sign up to get the merch discount

00:18:32 ◼   ► and then, oh, look over there.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Is that sparkly something?

00:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:35 ◼   ► Anyway, is that Elon Musk?

00:18:36 ◼   ► What Casey was alluding to is that these are expensive things.

00:18:40 ◼   ► The shirts are expensive because they're limited run.

00:18:42 ◼   ► We make them expensive because we do 17 printing passes on them.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And of course, the cost of everything

00:18:48 ◼   ► goes up because of supply chain stuff, yada, yada.

00:18:50 ◼   ► It might seem like you're really supporting

00:18:52 ◼   ► the show a super duper amount by buying the super expensive

00:18:54 ◼   ► t-shirt.

00:18:54 ◼   ► And you are, and we appreciate it.

00:18:55 ◼   ► But only do that if you actually want a shirt.

00:18:57 ◼   ► If you don't want a shirt, just sign up for ATP membership.

00:18:59 ◼   ► You'll get stuff for that as well,

00:19:00 ◼   ► and it will cost you far less money,

00:19:02 ◼   ► and we will get more of it.

00:19:03 ◼   ► So ATP.fm/join.

00:19:05 ◼   ► - Indeed, this is all great stuff.

00:19:07 ◼   ► And I am just sitting here so smug.

00:19:09 ◼   ► It's funny, I'm stealing your valor, I guess, Marco,

00:19:11 ◼   ► because it was your idea to do the Max Max shirt.

00:19:14 ◼   ► But because you were kind of pumping the brakes on it

00:19:16 ◼   ► a little bit. - Because you were

00:19:17 ◼   ► pooping your own idea, yeah.

00:19:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, since you were pumping the brakes.

00:19:19 ◼   ► This is very opposite day, 'cause I feel like

00:19:22 ◼   ► I would be the one to pump the brakes on my own idea.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And you would be the one to just run with it.

00:19:27 ◼   ► But no, now I'm running with your idea,

00:19:29 ◼   ► and I'm telling you that I'm claiming it as mine.

00:19:31 ◼   ► And so yes, the ATP M1 Ultra Interposer shirt

00:19:34 ◼   ► is the clear winner so far, and let's keep it that way.

00:19:36 ◼   ► - I can't believe we actually made it.

00:19:39 ◼   ► - One more thing on the merch this time.

00:19:40 ◼   ► - I posted a Photoshop joke,

00:19:41 ◼   ► and then you guys made it into a shirt.

00:19:44 ◼   ► - Well, that's how it works.

00:19:45 ◼   ► - That's how it works.

00:19:46 ◼   ► - The mugs and pint glasses, like I said last week,

00:19:49 ◼   ► those are the ones where we have to guess

00:19:50 ◼   ► how many people are gonna buy 'em

00:19:51 ◼   ► and order a bunch ahead of time,

00:19:53 ◼   ► and we were afraid that we were gonna end up

00:19:54 ◼   ► with a bunch of leftover ones,

00:19:56 ◼   ► like the pins where we just sold them for years and years

00:19:58 ◼   ► and couldn't get rid of the last of the pins.

00:20:00 ◼   ► So we actually reduced our order

00:20:03 ◼   ► 'cause we were afraid we weren't gonna sell through

00:20:04 ◼   ► the things that we have.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And also, as much as we like the gray interior ones,

00:20:09 ◼   ► we did wanna be stuck with five years worth

00:20:10 ◼   ► of gray interiors when the people who want the red interior

00:20:12 ◼   ► be like, "When are you gonna bring the red one back?"

00:20:14 ◼   ► And we're like, "Sorry, we gotta sell through

00:20:15 ◼   ► "another three years worth of gray ones."

00:20:17 ◼   ► So we reduced those orders.

00:20:19 ◼   ► What that means potentially is that we could sell out

00:20:22 ◼   ► of the mugs or pint glasses.

00:20:23 ◼   ► I don't think we will.

00:20:24 ◼   ► I think we've got plenty.

00:20:25 ◼   ► I think we're gonna have leftover, but just FYI,

00:20:27 ◼   ► if you really want a mug 'cause you broke yours last time

00:20:29 ◼   ► or you just want a different mug or you want one

00:20:31 ◼   ► that's less loud than the red interior one,

00:20:35 ◼   ► maybe consider buying your mug or pint glass

00:20:37 ◼   ► sooner rather than later,

00:20:38 ◼   ► because it is plausible that we could sell out of one

00:20:41 ◼   ► or both of them.

00:20:42 ◼   ► Again, I don't think we will,

00:20:43 ◼   ► but just wanted to give people a heads up.

00:20:44 ◼   ► - I can say it makes a very nice desk mug

00:20:46 ◼   ► for like holding pens and scissors and stuff.

00:20:48 ◼   ► That's how I use mine.

00:20:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what my wife uses it for.

00:20:51 ◼   ► I'm kind of insulted by it.

00:20:52 ◼   ► It's like, "Look at this nice bug.

00:20:53 ◼   ► "Why don't you use it as a mug?"

00:20:54 ◼   ► It's like, "No, I like it to hold my pens."

00:20:55 ◼   ► It's not a pen holder, it's a mug,

00:20:56 ◼   ► but yes, it does look good on your desk.

00:20:58 ◼   ► So if you want to use it to hold pens,

00:21:00 ◼   ► apparently that is a very common usage.

00:21:02 ◼   ► - In any case, ATP.fm/store or ATP.fm/join.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And despite what Jon says, you can feel free

00:21:10 ◼   ► to just let that membership cruise.

00:21:11 ◼   ► It's not gonna hurt you.

00:21:12 ◼   ► There'll be more merch sales in the future.

00:21:15 ◼   ► You can do it.

00:21:15 ◼   ► I have faith in you.

00:21:17 ◼   ► All right, let's do some follow-up.

00:21:19 ◼   ► We have, is this the third consecutive week

00:21:21 ◼   ► of original Gravity News?

00:21:22 ◼   ► Never in a million years.

00:21:24 ◼   ► - So are they a sponsor?

00:21:25 ◼   ► What's going on here?

00:21:25 ◼   ► - Seriously, never in a million years

00:21:27 ◼   ► did I think we would somehow milk this for three weeks.

00:21:29 ◼   ► But here we are. So, via Jared Cole, Original Gravity...

00:21:33 ◼   ► - AKA the beer and sausage place.

00:21:35 ◼   ► - Correct.

00:21:36 ◼   ► The Original Gravity people have put up an Instagram post

00:21:40 ◼   ► saying, "Hey, guess what?

00:21:42 ◼   ► Guess who's back again?

00:21:43 ◼   ► No, it's not Eminem.

00:21:43 ◼   ► Good guess though.

00:21:44 ◼   ► You know him, you love him.

00:21:46 ◼   ► The Bavarian sausage.

00:21:47 ◼   ► Starting today, and this was what, the 16th of March,

00:21:50 ◼   ► the People's Wiener returns.

00:21:52 ◼   ► So come reunite with your old friend at Original Gravity.

00:21:55 ◼   ► It is only but one of the many sausages they used to offer,

00:21:58 ◼   ► but it is at least one option back at Original Gravity.

00:22:01 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:22:02 ◼   ► - Hey, it's a start, but hey, maybe by the time we get there

00:22:04 ◼   ► they'll have a full Soft

00:22:09 ◼   ► I feel like I do want to have a word with whoever their person is doing copy for their social media stuff,

00:22:10 ◼   ► 'cause they use, they were, W-H-O-S-E, who's,

00:22:13 ◼   ► instead of W-H-O apostrophe S for who is.

00:22:16 ◼   ► - We're ignoring that.

00:22:17 ◼   ► They probably, they probably had some beer first, it's fine.

00:22:19 ◼   ► - No apostrophe in the people's wiener.

00:22:22 ◼   ► It's just, I mean.

00:22:23 ◼   ► - Well, I'm just glad that we have Soft's follow up again,

00:22:26 ◼   ► which is kind of amazing.

00:22:27 ◼   ► And there's a little picture of a sausage and some fries.

00:22:30 ◼   ► So there you have it.

00:22:31 ◼   ► I was gonna say that we did it

00:22:32 ◼   ► because we recorded that episode,

00:22:34 ◼   ► but again, this was on March 16th.

00:22:35 ◼   ► So we did it retroactively kind of.

00:22:38 ◼   ► - Something like that.

00:22:39 ◼   ► All right, with regard to ethernet controllers,

00:22:42 ◼   ► we were talking last week about how,

00:22:44 ◼   ► was it Realtek has a really crummy implementation

00:22:47 ◼   ► or perhaps just crummy drivers

00:22:48 ◼   ► for their ethernet controllers.

00:22:49 ◼   ► And we were trying to figure out

00:22:51 ◼   ► what is the deal with my beloved CalDigit TS4.

00:22:55 ◼   ► And apparently somebody reached out to CalDigit

00:22:57 ◼   ► found the answer from CalDigit?

00:22:58 ◼   ► Oh, you reached out.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Okay, you said you had asked them last week.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - I actually behaved like the journalist

00:23:03 ◼   ► that I pretend to be sometimes,

00:23:04 ◼   ► and said, "Hey, we wanna talk about this in ATP.

00:23:07 ◼   ► "Can you confirm which Ethernet chip you use,

00:23:09 ◼   ► "whether it's the RTL whatever, whatever, whatever,

00:23:12 ◼   ► "three, that's the bad one, or the six?"

00:23:14 ◼   ► Yeah, and today they responded,

00:23:17 ◼   ► and said, "The TS4 is using the Intel i225 PCIe

00:23:21 ◼   ► "to 2.5 gigabit Ethernet controller."

00:23:24 ◼   ► So it is neither of the Realtek chips.

00:23:27 ◼   ► It's an Intel chip and I haven't followed the development

00:23:30 ◼   ► of different NIC chips for a very long time.

00:23:33 ◼   ► However, back when I cared about such things,

00:23:36 ◼   ► Intel always made the best ones.

00:23:38 ◼   ► So I don't know what the exact deal is with Mac OS

00:23:40 ◼   ► and the driver support of this thing

00:23:42 ◼   ► and whether it will work at full speed and everything.

00:23:44 ◼   ► However, hearing that they're using an Intel chip,

00:23:47 ◼   ► to me that's very good news because they used to,

00:23:49 ◼   ► again, they used to make the best NICs in the world

00:23:51 ◼   ► and they probably are still very good.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Whereas Realtek is kinda hit or miss

00:23:56 ◼   ► with their products usually.

00:23:57 ◼   ► So this, I'm happy to hear this.

00:23:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then I had made off-handed mention

00:24:03 ◼   ► of the fact that you need to flip some magic switch

00:24:07 ◼   ► in the hardware area of system preferences

00:24:10 ◼   ► in order to get Ethernet to work more reliably.

00:24:11 ◼   ► And a couple people reached out asking

00:24:13 ◼   ► what the crap I was talking about.

00:24:15 ◼   ► And it completely slipped my mind

00:24:17 ◼   ► to put that in the show notes,

00:24:18 ◼   ► but I have put it in this week's show notes.

00:24:19 ◼   ► So I put that link in there.

00:24:21 ◼   ► Additionally, a couple people pointed out,

00:24:23 ◼   ► maybe I just stumbled upon this,

00:24:24 ◼   ► I don't remember how I got here,

00:24:25 ◼   ► but one way or another, I found that they have a FAQ post

00:24:30 ◼   ► with regard to sleep issues,

00:24:32 ◼   ► and apparently it's better

00:24:33 ◼   ► under the most recent version of macOS,

00:24:36 ◼   ► but it's still got a little bit of wonkiness.

00:24:38 ◼   ► So what they say on this page is,

00:24:40 ◼   ► "There are some short-term ongoing intermittent issues

00:24:43 ◼   ► "in macOS 12 and up affecting some Thunderbolt docs

00:24:45 ◼   ► "in general after macOS going into sleep mode."

00:24:48 ◼   ► So they have two recommendations for you.

00:24:50 ◼   ► You either turn off sleep mode,

00:24:51 ◼   ► which is what I've done of my own volition

00:24:53 ◼   ► unrelated to any of this, or, and this is interesting,

00:24:57 ◼   ► reconnect the dock each time you reboot prior to sleeping it

00:25:01 ◼   ► and apparently you only have to do it once,

00:25:03 ◼   ► but once you boot your machine, disconnect the dock,

00:25:07 ◼   ► reconnect the dock, and then magic happens

00:25:09 ◼   ► and then you don't have the problem anymore

00:25:10 ◼   ► according to this page on their FAQ.

00:25:13 ◼   ► So I just wanted to pass that along.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Again, there will be links to both of these

00:25:16 ◼   ► in the show notes.

00:25:17 ◼   ► - We are sponsored this week by Linode,

00:25:21 ◼   ► my favorite place to run servers.

00:25:22 ◼   ► We're at linode.com/atp to learn more

00:25:25 ◼   ► and see why so many nerds like me love this wonderful host.

00:25:29 ◼   ► I mean, look, I've been running servers for a long time,

00:25:31 ◼   ► since I believe the year 2000.

00:25:33 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:25:34 ◼   ► And it is, I've used a lot of web hosts in my day,

00:25:38 ◼   ► and Linode is by far my favorite one.

00:25:40 ◼   ► That's why I've been sticking with them for the longest.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Once I discovered them, I gradually moved all of my stuff

00:25:45 ◼   ► over to Linode and I haven't left

00:25:47 ◼   ► because it is just such a great host.

00:25:48 ◼   ► They have any plan to suit any resource level

00:25:51 ◼   ► and any budget, so they have things starting

00:25:53 ◼   ► at just $5 a month, all the way up to whatever

00:25:55 ◼   ► your needs might be for hardware needs.

00:25:57 ◼   ► They have specialty plans like GPU compute plans,

00:26:00 ◼   ► high memory plans, dedicated CPU plans,

00:26:03 ◼   ► and other services that you might use,

00:26:05 ◼   ► like block storage, Kubernetes support,

00:26:08 ◼   ► centralized supporting tools like Terraform.

00:26:10 ◼   ► It's just an amazing service.

00:26:12 ◼   ► They have a great control panel.

00:26:13 ◼   ► They have a great API to automate stuff.

00:26:15 ◼   ► They also have amazing support,

00:26:17 ◼   ► and they offer that same support 24/7/365

00:26:20 ◼   ► to every level of user.

00:26:21 ◼   ► So whether you're spending five bucks a month with them

00:26:24 ◼   ► or 5,000 bucks a month with them,

00:26:25 ◼   ► doesn't matter, same level of support

00:26:27 ◼   ► and I've used it and it is fantastic.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Linode is also just in my opinion

00:26:32 ◼   ► the best value in the business.

00:26:33 ◼   ► I have seen again a lot of hosts

00:26:35 ◼   ► and I've stuck with them because value matters a lot to me.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I buy a lot of servers and so that,

00:26:39 ◼   ► any kind of value difference really adds up for me

00:26:41 ◼   ► and Linode is an amazing value.

00:26:43 ◼   ► As tech moves forward, they always adjust their plans

00:26:46 ◼   ► to give you even more for your money.

00:26:48 ◼   ► So it's just fantastic to be a Linode customer.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Visit linode.com/atp, create a free account

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00:27:00 ◼   ► Once again, linode.com/atp,

00:27:03 ◼   ► create a free account there to get $100 in credit.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Linode for being an awesome web host,

00:27:09 ◼   ► for hosting all my stuff, and for sponsoring our show.

00:27:15 ◼   ► Let's talk about Ecobee's.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Now Eric Powell had some interesting feedback

00:27:19 ◼   ► and Marco, can you summarize one more time

00:27:22 ◼   ► what your issue or confusion was

00:27:24 ◼   ► with the interaction of Ecobee and HomeKit?

00:27:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, basically that every time HomeKit,

00:27:31 ◼   ► every time I would control the Ecobee thermostats

00:27:34 ◼   ► through HomeKit, or they would control themselves

00:27:38 ◼   ► through like a schedule I had set in their app,

00:27:41 ◼   ► a lot of times things would mess up

00:27:43 ◼   ► when whoever has control would switch.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Whether HomeKit did the last command,

00:27:47 ◼   ► or whether Ecobee's internal stuff did the last command,

00:27:49 ◼   ► it was oftentimes very weird.

00:27:51 ◼   ► I would often do things like ask HomeKit

00:27:53 ◼   ► to turn off the heat in this room,

00:27:57 ◼   ► and instead of turning off the heat,

00:27:58 ◼   ► it would go to like auto mode,

00:27:59 ◼   ► where it will use heat or AC

00:28:01 ◼   ► to maintain one of these temperature ranges,

00:28:04 ◼   ► which is very different from off.

00:28:06 ◼   ► So stuff like that, like this weird stuff would happen,

00:28:09 ◼   ► or I would tell HomeKit to do something,

00:28:12 ◼   ► and it would say okay,

00:28:14 ◼   ► and then I would look at the thermostat

00:28:15 ◼   ► and it wasn't doing it.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Or it was just, it was a very strange situation.

00:28:19 ◼   ► - All right, so Eric Powell writes,

00:28:21 ◼   ► "I think I know which problem Marco

00:28:22 ◼   ► "might have been talking about,

00:28:24 ◼   ► "as he wasn't alone with that.

00:28:25 ◼   ► "EcoBee has two hold types, a permanent hold,

00:28:27 ◼   ► "which of course lasts until you change it,

00:28:29 ◼   ► "and a temporary hold that only lasts

00:28:31 ◼   ► "until the next schedule change.

00:28:32 ◼   ► "With HomeKit, for whatever reason,

00:28:33 ◼   ► "EcoBee decided that if you use the Home app,

00:28:35 ◼   ► "the Dingus, et cetera, to change the temperature,

00:28:38 ◼   ► "it would put the thermostat into a permanent hold

00:28:41 ◼   ► "instead of a temporary hold.

00:28:42 ◼   ► "Comments on Reddit complained about this for ages,

00:28:44 ◼   ► "with tips on how to MacGyver your way around it

00:28:46 ◼   ► "with shortcuts, for example.

00:28:48 ◼   ► "However, finally last year, they relented

00:28:50 ◼   ► "and changed the way this works via an update.

00:28:52 ◼   ► "Now the system will do a temporary hold

00:28:54 ◼   ► "when you use one of your HomeKit options

00:28:55 ◼   ► "and will revert back to the scheduled temperature

00:28:57 ◼   ► "when the next schedule starts."

00:28:59 ◼   ► - Got it, so now it apparently is better

00:29:02 ◼   ► at maintaining both a schedule in the Ecobee app

00:29:05 ◼   ► and a schedule on a thermostat.

00:29:06 ◼   ► That being said, I don't plan to try this

00:29:09 ◼   ► because it was a pain in the butt,

00:29:10 ◼   ► and having everything controlled only via the home app

00:29:14 ◼   ► and its own automation and scheduling and voice control

00:29:17 ◼   ► is working fine for me.

00:29:19 ◼   ► And so, again, I think so often we run into problems

00:29:22 ◼   ► with smart home stuff if multiple ecosystems or apps

00:29:27 ◼   ► are trying to control the same thing.

00:29:30 ◼   ► So I think having only one of those things controlling it,

00:29:33 ◼   ► whether you go all in on Ecobee's app or all in on HomeKit,

00:29:36 ◼   ► I think go all in on one or the other,

00:29:38 ◼   ► don't try to mix them because it's just asking for trouble.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Although speaking of mixing them, something somebody pointed out with the little sensor

00:29:45 ◼   ► things that come with some of the ecobee things.

00:29:48 ◼   ► I mentioned that they're a temperature sensor and they're wireless and they're powered by

00:29:51 ◼   ► a little coin battery type thing and supposedly last a long time and they're really neat.

00:29:56 ◼   ► And then when I added it to home kit I saw the multiple things that were like the various

00:30:00 ◼   ► sensors in addition to just temperature, there's like the present sensor or whatever.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Someone pointed out that you can use these things even if you don't care about the temperature

00:30:07 ◼   ► in the room.

00:30:08 ◼   ► the ecobee which ones should contribute to temperature calculations and when they should.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So you can just say like during nighttime hours ignore all the temperature sensors except

00:30:16 ◼   ► for the ones that are upstairs or something like that.

00:30:18 ◼   ► And the other thing you can do is because they're present sensors you can do stuff like

00:30:21 ◼   ► when someone walks into the room or if nobody has been in this room for X amount of time,

00:30:25 ◼   ► fire off this automation.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Also that doesn't feel like we're mixing and matching.

00:30:29 ◼   ► I know you just recommended using just one but like if you use the ecobee to control

00:30:32 ◼   ► the temperature but then if you just added home kit automation sort of just using the

00:30:36 ◼   ► smart sensors as devices, I think they would probably stay out of each other's way because

00:30:40 ◼   ► I don't think there's any way to sort of do the equivalent of like, execute this shortcut,

00:30:44 ◼   ► you know what I mean, from the ecobee.

00:30:46 ◼   ► Whereas in the home thing, if you just use the present sensor device and say, when no

00:30:50 ◼   ► one has been in the living room for two hours, if any of the lights are on, turn them off,

00:30:54 ◼   ► that's a thing you could probably do with, you know, HomeKit and shortcuts and automation

00:30:58 ◼   ► that you probably couldn't do with ecobee.

00:31:00 ◼   ► All right, and then John, tell me about how you found instructions for your weirdo setup

00:31:05 ◼   ► after all.

00:31:06 ◼   ► really quite the same as my setup but it's like it's it's the equivalent so the reason

00:31:09 ◼   ► I didn't find it is because if you honestly answer the questions that these various like

00:31:13 ◼   ► wizards guide you through on their website do you have X do you have Y do you have Z

00:31:16 ◼   ► right you'll never find this because one of the things is asking you like it leads you

00:31:20 ◼   ► down the path of like do you have like the AC adapter that plugs into the wall and I

00:31:23 ◼   ► mentioned you know I didn't have them and I don't want that because then you'd run a

00:31:25 ◼   ► wire up your wall or whatever so I would never go down that branch but practically speaking

00:31:30 ◼   ► what that little wall wart adapter thing is doing is the same thing that those two other

00:31:34 ◼   ► wires I found buried in my wall are doing is they're providing 24 volts AC

00:31:38 ◼   ► you know it's only instead of being plugged into the wall it was shoved into

00:31:41 ◼   ► my breaker box to a little transformer that was mounted to the wall next to it

00:31:45 ◼   ► and then up through my walls through a cable but it's the same thing

00:31:47 ◼   ► electrically speaking so if you do follow these steps and we'll put a link

00:31:50 ◼   ► in the show notes which is not a direct link but it's as direct as I could go if

00:31:54 ◼   ► you follow the link in the show notes then you clip up click on the section

00:31:57 ◼   ► that says step three then you click on the section says scenario a then you

00:32:01 ◼   ► click on the section that says alternate solution you will in fact reveal a

00:32:04 ◼   ► wiring diagram that shows hey what if I have basically a w1 wire and RH wire

00:32:10 ◼   ► and then I have two other random wires that are essentially you know 24 volts

00:32:14 ◼   ► AC coming off a transformer which in the diagram they showed to be a little wall

00:32:18 ◼   ► wall wart but in my house is not and the solution they have doesn't require

00:32:22 ◼   ► putting two wires into a single hole instead they put the 24 volt AC they put

00:32:26 ◼   ► one into C the common wire and they put the other one into RC and then they for

00:32:30 ◼   ► the thermostat wires, they go into W1 and RH.

00:32:33 ◼   ► And I'm sure that would work on mine as well.

00:32:36 ◼   ► In fact, if I ever need to disassemble mine and reassemble

00:32:38 ◼   ► it, I will do this just because it's simpler than my weird

00:32:40 ◼   ► solution of melding the two wires together.

00:32:42 ◼   ► And in my house, I don't have like RCs in theory

00:32:46 ◼   ► for like cooling and RHs for heating,

00:32:48 ◼   ► but I don't have any cooling.

00:32:49 ◼   ► So just having, you know, W1 and either RH or RC,

00:32:53 ◼   ► you just tell the thermostat which one, you know,

00:32:55 ◼   ► you want it to be the one that means turn the heat on

00:32:58 ◼   ► and it should work fine.

00:32:59 ◼   ► So I'll try that if I ever have to open it up,

00:33:01 ◼   ► but for now everything works and I'm not opening it back up.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - Fair enough.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Cameron Wood writes, lots of issues and discussion

00:33:06 ◼   ► on this week's ATP on smart thermostats.

00:33:08 ◼   ► Worth noting that it's a different ball game

00:33:09 ◼   ► in Europe for your listeners.

00:33:11 ◼   ► They use different wiring setups and different products.

00:33:13 ◼   ► Nest, Tato, Tato and Hive are pretty good follow-up mentions

00:33:18 ◼   ► for your Europe listeners where ecobee isn't available.

00:33:21 ◼   ► - There's something that's, I mean, we don't mention this.

00:33:23 ◼   ► It's implicit, but yeah, we all live in the US

00:33:26 ◼   ► and anytime we're talking about anything

00:33:28 ◼   ► that might vary between the US and elsewhere,

00:33:30 ◼   ► just assume everything we're saying only applies to the US.

00:33:33 ◼   ► We have US plugs, we have US electrical systems,

00:33:35 ◼   ► we have US roads, just any of that type of stuff

00:33:38 ◼   ► that varies from country to country.

00:33:40 ◼   ► You know, we can't tell you what to do

00:33:43 ◼   ► in other places in the world,

00:33:44 ◼   ► 'cause we honestly don't know,

00:33:45 ◼   ► and you know, in this case,

00:33:47 ◼   ► like the manufacturers might even be different.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Some of these manufacturers we're talking about

00:33:49 ◼   ► may not even serve those regions.

00:33:51 ◼   ► They might be US only, or they might only be,

00:33:53 ◼   ► you know, the US and the UK or something,

00:33:55 ◼   ► so we're sorry that we can't offer a bar of respect

00:33:58 ◼   ► But do keep that in mind before you rush off to do something based on home automation that

00:34:02 ◼   ► you heard us talk about because homes are very different across the world.

00:34:05 ◼   ► CMF in the chat room is asking how I get by in the summer in Boston.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Yeah, window units.

00:34:10 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:34:11 ◼   ► They're heavy.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Why don't you either do the HVAC or do mini splits?

00:34:14 ◼   ► Yeah, mini splits are awesome.

00:34:15 ◼   ► You know the answer to that question.

00:34:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:34:17 ◼   ► You don't want to make holes in your house, I know.

00:34:18 ◼   ► But yes, mini splits are a worthy hole.

00:34:22 ◼   ► I don't understand why anybody does mini splits.

00:34:24 ◼   ► They're so hideous.

00:34:25 ◼   ► They work really well.

00:34:27 ◼   ► That's why.

00:34:28 ◼   ► The hideous inside the house, the hideous outside the house.

00:34:31 ◼   ► My house does not have much going for it, but the one thing it does have going for it

00:34:34 ◼   ► is that it looks nice on the outside in terms of being a nice house without a bunch of ugly

00:34:38 ◼   ► crap all over it.

00:34:39 ◼   ► I mean, I cannot fathom living in a place where it gets over 70 degrees without air

00:34:45 ◼   ► conditioning.

00:34:46 ◼   ► Well, the window units do the job.

00:34:48 ◼   ► They're a pain to install and a pain to uninstall.

00:34:50 ◼   ► Yes, because those look great in your windows, John.

00:34:52 ◼   ► They look stupendous.

00:34:53 ◼   ► They look better than mini splits, let me tell you.

00:34:57 ◼   ► maybe inside the house, I strongly disagree on the outside.

00:34:59 ◼   ► - Definitely outside, but they go through the windows.

00:35:00 ◼   ► The windows are already an area

00:35:02 ◼   ► where there's stuff going on.

00:35:03 ◼   ► They don't pierce the wall

00:35:05 ◼   ► and end up looking like these warty things.

00:35:06 ◼   ► - And then when you have a nice day

00:35:08 ◼   ► and you wanna open the windows,

00:35:09 ◼   ► you have one that you can't use.

00:35:11 ◼   ► - But I have plenty of windows, don't worry about it.

00:35:13 ◼   ► There's plenty of windows to open.

00:35:15 ◼   ► - Far be it from me to convince you

00:35:16 ◼   ► that you've made the wrong choice

00:35:18 ◼   ► with regards to your employment,

00:35:19 ◼   ► but maybe you should have hung on for another six months

00:35:22 ◼   ► just so you could get, amass the money

00:35:25 ◼   ► such that you can do proper HVAC.

00:35:27 ◼   ► - It's not a money issue, it's a house disruption issue.

00:35:30 ◼   ► We've talked about this before.

00:35:31 ◼   ► I do not have any air ducts in those little skinny ones

00:35:34 ◼   ► they try to fish through your wall.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Fishing anything through my ancient walls is a big project

00:35:38 ◼   ► and would just, the house would crumble to dust.

00:35:39 ◼   ► It's the type of thing that--

00:35:40 ◼   ► - What if you open the wall and you ended up discovering,

00:35:43 ◼   ► oh my God, there's a whole second air duct in here.

00:35:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:35:46 ◼   ► - I don't think there's any secret air ducts.

00:35:48 ◼   ► If anything, there's probably just bodies buried in there

00:35:50 ◼   ► and old radiators. - And rats.

00:35:52 ◼   ► - And a bunch of old razor blades

00:35:53 ◼   ► the little razor blade hole that is in the medicine cabinet that we talked about before.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Did we talk about this before?

00:35:59 ◼   ► Yes, we have on this show. I'm pretty sure we talked about it.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:36:02 ◼   ► I don't think we did, Jon.

00:36:03 ◼   ► I know the thing you mean, like the kind of thing you mean, but I don't think we talked about it.

00:36:06 ◼   ► For people who don't know, again, this may be U.S. only. We don't offer this disclaimer,

00:36:10 ◼   ► but it's fresh in my mind because I just mentioned it. In the U.S. at least, back in the day,

00:36:15 ◼   ► when they made a house, they'd put in like a medicine cabinet, which is like a little

00:36:19 ◼   ► thing that's recessed between the studs in your bathroom wall, and it has a mirrored door on it,

00:36:23 ◼   ► usually and if you pull in the mirror door it opens up and there you put all your medicines

00:36:26 ◼   ► and other stuff right it's a medicine cabinet in the bathroom right and what they would

00:36:29 ◼   ► have in the back of the medicine cabinet would just be like a metal thing that's like in

00:36:33 ◼   ► the wall to make little shelves or whatever there'd be a slit in there and what that was

00:36:38 ◼   ► for was when you used to shave with like straight razors back before disposable razors and stuff

00:36:42 ◼   ► when you're done with your razor blade you'd remove it from your little handle and then

00:36:46 ◼   ► you would shove it through the slot and it would just fall down the stud cavity in your

00:36:51 ◼   ► wall to the bottom of the stud cavity somewhere.

00:36:53 ◼   ► - Are you serious?

00:36:54 ◼   ► This is a thing?

00:36:55 ◼   ► - Right, and the reason they do that is like,

00:36:57 ◼   ► oh, it's a razor blade, I don't wanna put it in the garbage

00:36:58 ◼   ► 'cause a toddler goes over and finds it in the garbage

00:37:01 ◼   ► and plays with it and they'll cut themselves or whatever.

00:37:03 ◼   ► So, the razor blades are very, very small

00:37:04 ◼   ► and very, very light and they figure,

00:37:05 ◼   ► look, for the life of this house,

00:37:07 ◼   ► it's not like they're gonna fill the stud cavity

00:37:09 ◼   ► with razor blades, just let it fall and it will just plunk.

00:37:11 ◼   ► - Why didn't they put a metal bucket or something?

00:37:15 ◼   ► - Basket, yeah.

00:37:16 ◼   ► - No, it just goes into the wall.

00:37:17 ◼   ► And so, in many houses, if you tear open a bathroom,

00:37:19 ◼   ► you will find is a little pile of rust, a little pile of rusty metal, or potentially

00:37:24 ◼   ► a big pile, depending on how long that was done, the people who lived there and how long

00:37:27 ◼   ► they did it, right underneath where the medicine cabinet was.

00:37:30 ◼   ► I had no idea this was the thing, genuinely, no idea.

00:37:33 ◼   ► I bet you can find good pictures on the internet of like, you know, what does it look like

00:37:36 ◼   ► when you find a pile of those in the wall. But it's a good example of like the childlike

00:37:40 ◼   ► thing of like, look, they're not going to fill this. How long will this last? 500 years,

00:37:45 ◼   ► 1000 years, the house is going to disintegrate before this ever becomes a problem. We've

00:37:49 ◼   ► essentially found a permanent,

00:37:50 ◼   ► it's like a radioactive waste storage.

00:37:52 ◼   ► Like, I know what we can do with it.

00:37:54 ◼   ► We'll just put it in between the studs in our bathroom

00:37:57 ◼   ► and it will never fill up.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Only this is a system that actually works.

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00:40:00 ◼   ► - All right, so we had some interesting feedback

00:40:05 ◼   ► with regard to USB-C KVMs,

00:40:08 ◼   ► and we were talking about how Intel has like a dev kit

00:40:12 ◼   ► that does this sort of thing.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And then Victor Leong wrote us to point out

00:40:16 ◼   ► that there is the MCCI model 3141 USB4 switch,

00:40:21 ◼   ► which apparently is a computer controlled programmable

00:40:24 ◼   ► two to one switch connecting two USB type C receptacles

00:40:27 ◼   ► to a single USB type C plug.

00:40:30 ◼   ► It is compatible with USB4 hosts and devices

00:40:32 ◼   ► as well as older protocols such as Thunderbolt 3,

00:40:34 ◼   ► USB 3.2, 2.0, USB type C alternate modes

00:40:36 ◼   ► and of course, power delivery.

00:40:38 ◼   ► And this looks like exactly,

00:40:41 ◼   ► it looks like basically a packaged version

00:40:43 ◼   ► of that Intel dev board,

00:40:44 ◼   ► which is really interesting and really exciting

00:40:47 ◼   ► and sounds kind of great until I point out

00:40:49 ◼   ► that the list price is just shy of $1,000.

00:40:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's quite a switch.

00:40:54 ◼   ► - Indeed.

00:40:55 ◼   ► So from the same anonymous friend of the show

00:40:57 ◼   ► that wrote us with regard to the Intel dev kit,

00:41:01 ◼   ► this individual wrote,

00:41:02 ◼   ► "They did a nice job on this,

00:41:03 ◼   ► but they just finished reading the docs.

00:41:06 ◼   ► It doesn't have quite as much fanciness as the Intel board,

00:41:09 ◼   ► but it covers the basics.

00:41:10 ◼   ► But oof, the price is almost $1,000, bananas.

00:41:13 ◼   ► There are literally three USB connectors,

00:41:15 ◼   ► an MCU, an analog MUX, and diodes MUX in there.

00:41:19 ◼   ► That's like $25 a parts.

00:41:20 ◼   ► They must have done this on spec to Microsoft

00:41:22 ◼   ► and then realized they could charge Microsoft

00:41:23 ◼   ► essentially an arbitrary price for finished units

00:41:25 ◼   ► and no one would care.

00:41:27 ◼   ► So when you can charge a trillion dollars for something,

00:41:30 ◼   ► guess what, you do.

00:41:32 ◼   ► Subtitle, the Apple story.

00:41:34 ◼   ► - It's more like the government contractor story.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - Very true, very true, very, very true.

00:41:39 ◼   ► All right, I'm assuming this is John that put this in here.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Tell me about this video from my best friend,

00:41:45 ◼   ► Linus Tech Tips.

00:41:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, Joshua Prisman sent this in,

00:41:48 ◼   ► apparently in the latest Linus Tech Tip video.

00:41:50 ◼   ► I forget what the actual video is about.

00:41:51 ◼   ► They were taking apart some Mac studios.

00:41:54 ◼   ► Well, they had enough Mac studios

00:41:56 ◼   ► that they just happened to have taken them apart,

00:41:58 ◼   ► and they found two of them that are the same model.

00:42:01 ◼   ► It's not like one is the Ultra and one is the Max.

00:42:03 ◼   ► are literally the same model, the same SKU,

00:42:05 ◼   ► that had entirely different power supplies in them.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And you can look at the video, we'll put a timestamp link,

00:42:11 ◼   ► you can see them holding up next to each other.

00:42:12 ◼   ► They're both circular, they're both the same size

00:42:14 ◼   ► and shape more or less,

00:42:15 ◼   ► 'cause they both have to fit in the same case,

00:42:16 ◼   ► but they are not like each other at all.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Two different manufacturers, one is Lighton

00:42:20 ◼   ► and one is Delta.

00:42:22 ◼   ► And there's some speculation that one of the problems

00:42:25 ◼   ► people are having with Mac Studios

00:42:27 ◼   ► is not actually related to the cooling system,

00:42:28 ◼   ► but just related to electrical noise from the power supply.

00:42:32 ◼   ► They didn't say this in the video,

00:42:35 ◼   ► and it's too hard to tell with just two of them,

00:42:36 ◼   ► but it would be interesting to know the people

00:42:39 ◼   ► who are getting kind of an electrical buzzing noise,

00:42:41 ◼   ► which one of the two possible power supplies that they have,

00:42:44 ◼   ► or maybe there's three possible ones.

00:42:46 ◼   ► And they say this in the video,

00:42:47 ◼   ► it's not uncommon for Apple to source parts

00:42:49 ◼   ► from multiple manufacturers.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Very often they have multiple suppliers

00:42:52 ◼   ► for commodity parts like the RAM,

00:42:55 ◼   ► or no one's looking at the individual capacitor

00:42:58 ◼   ► saying, wow, my Mac, it's the same as your Mac,

00:43:00 ◼   ► but my capacitor is made by this company

00:43:01 ◼   ► your capacitor is made by that company.

00:43:02 ◼   ► In this case, the entire component of power supply

00:43:04 ◼   ► is made by a different company.

00:43:05 ◼   ► They've done that in the past, not other Macs as well.

00:43:08 ◼   ► But you'd need quite a sample to be able to nail it down

00:43:13 ◼   ► and say, is the electrical noise just manufacturing tolerances

00:43:17 ◼   ► and variation across all the manufacturers,

00:43:19 ◼   ► or is there one manufacturer that's more susceptible to this

00:43:21 ◼   ► than the other?

00:43:22 ◼   ► Unfortunately, as far as I know, there's

00:43:24 ◼   ► no way to tell which power supply you have

00:43:26 ◼   ► without opening the thing up.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And the MacStudio does not want you to open it up.

00:43:29 ◼   ► And if you did open it up, Apple would probably

00:43:30 ◼   ► to be able to tell, so I wouldn't suggest it,

00:43:32 ◼   ► but just FYI, you know, whether this is because

00:43:36 ◼   ► of supply chain stuff and they were worried

00:43:38 ◼   ► one manufacturer wouldn't be enough to supply them,

00:43:40 ◼   ► so they had to have two of them,

00:43:41 ◼   ► or they just farmed it out and two manufacturers

00:43:44 ◼   ► came back with designs that both qualified

00:43:46 ◼   ► according to Apple specs, who knows,

00:43:49 ◼   ► but either way, there's some variation going on

00:43:51 ◼   ► inside the Mac Studio.

00:43:53 ◼   ► - So now's the time that Marco, you and I

00:43:55 ◼   ► really have to combine our powers

00:43:57 ◼   ► to avoid talking about Elon Musk.

00:44:00 ◼   ► Have you looked into any of the newer offerings

00:44:03 ◼   ► for electric cars like the IONIQ 5 or anything like that?

00:44:06 ◼   ► 'Cause we're gonna do a mid-show neutral apparently.

00:44:08 ◼   ► But there's a lot of new stuff coming out

00:44:10 ◼   ► that looks at a glance, at a glance,

00:44:12 ◼   ► looks really, really good.

00:44:13 ◼   ► - The IONIQ 5 is not new and it does not look really,

00:44:15 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it's a nice car but it doesn't look good.

00:44:19 ◼   ► - Well, okay, for the broader definition of look.

00:44:22 ◼   ► - I don't find it appealing at all.

00:44:24 ◼   ► There's the, what is it, the Kia,

00:44:25 ◼   ► one that's based on the same platform,

00:44:27 ◼   ► looks a little bit better, but yeah.

00:44:29 ◼   ► - I actually haven't been paying much attention

00:44:32 ◼   ► except for what we hear from friends,

00:44:33 ◼   ► like Alan and Aric over at Fun Fact,

00:44:37 ◼   ► and talk about a lot of this stuff.

00:44:38 ◼   ► But I haven't been looking too much,

00:44:41 ◼   ► just because it's almost like my heart's been broken

00:44:44 ◼   ► so many times by promises of cool electric vehicles

00:44:47 ◼   ► that then just never come out,

00:44:48 ◼   ► or that eventually come out

00:44:49 ◼   ► and it's nothing like the concept and it sucks.

00:44:51 ◼   ► And so when things do come out, that's good,

00:44:55 ◼   ► but I don't pay attention to the press anymore

00:44:57 ◼   ► in that whole subject area because it's so heartbreaking so often.

00:45:02 ◼   ► Casey was just describing cars that are out, have been out for a while.

00:45:06 ◼   ► Also the BMW ones that are out, although I don't think they're particularly appealing.

00:45:10 ◼   ► The Lucid Air, by the way, is also out, and it is more or less exactly what they said

00:45:13 ◼   ► it would be, combined with what you would expect, which is this is literally the first

00:45:17 ◼   ► car from a new manufacturer, so it's very much like the first Model S. But you did have

00:45:21 ◼   ► one of the early Model S, so it's not like you're unfamiliar with that experience.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Not really, not that early.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - Well, it was early enough that there was weird problems,

00:45:28 ◼   ► right, though?

00:45:29 ◼   ► - Not really, no, I didn't really have any weird problems.

00:45:31 ◼   ► I mean, I had to replace the door handles once,

00:45:33 ◼   ► but that was--

00:45:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, that and the electrical, not the electrical,

00:45:36 ◼   ► the sort of software gremlins in the first versions of that

00:45:39 ◼   ► and with it crashing or whatever.

00:45:40 ◼   ► - I didn't really, that wasn't any,

00:45:42 ◼   ► it wasn't like the drivetrain crashing,

00:45:44 ◼   ► it was just like the screen crashing.

00:45:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, just the screen.

00:45:46 ◼   ► So the Lucid Air is like that too.

00:45:47 ◼   ► The drivetrain and the car part of it itself

00:45:49 ◼   ► seems to be fantastic.

00:45:51 ◼   ► Every review is going gaga over it.

00:45:53 ◼   ► Of course, it's super expensive as well,

00:45:54 ◼   ► but it's like amazing.

00:45:55 ◼   ► amazing range, amazing performance, amazing sort of,

00:46:00 ◼   ► I don't know what the equivalent is,

00:46:01 ◼   ► but like miles per watt hour, very efficient,

00:46:04 ◼   ► huge on the inside, everything's great about it,

00:46:08 ◼   ► but the software is like, ah, it's a little immature,

00:46:10 ◼   ► maybe a little wonky, it's not poorly performing

00:46:12 ◼   ► like the Rivian, where the Rivian is like,

00:46:14 ◼   ► oh, this feels kind of janky and slow.

00:46:15 ◼   ► It's fine, but it's definitely like,

00:46:17 ◼   ► oh, this is the first car from a manufacturer

00:46:20 ◼   ► that hasn't done this before,

00:46:21 ◼   ► and some of the integrations they promised

00:46:23 ◼   ► third-party stuff is not quite up to snuff yet.

00:46:25 ◼   ► So, you know, but if you're willing to deal with those early adopter stuff, and probably

00:46:31 ◼   ► the door handle will break because, you know, everyone knows something weird with door handles,

00:46:34 ◼   ► like that's just a rite of passage.

00:46:36 ◼   ► That's how we know it's a futuristic car.

00:46:38 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:46:39 ◼   ► But anyway, the Lucid Air actually did launch and is pretty amazing, and the tech in it

00:46:43 ◼   ► is, for everything I see, like the tech, the drivetrain tech in Lucid Air is the leader

00:46:47 ◼   ► in the entire industry.

00:46:49 ◼   ► Possibly also the battery tech, although I think the jury's still out on that one, but

00:46:52 ◼   ► The drivetrain tag is for sure the leader.

00:46:53 ◼   ► It is the smallest, most powerful, the best in terms of size and weight for what you get

00:47:01 ◼   ► out of it.

00:47:02 ◼   ► It's still slower than the, what do you call it?

00:47:05 ◼   ► The Plaid?

00:47:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it's still slower than the Plaid because the Plaid has three motors and this one has

00:47:08 ◼   ► two, but I think Lucid is going to make a three motor one and when they do, probably,

00:47:12 ◼   ► you know, the, well maybe by then the Tesla Roadster will be out, but honestly that whole

00:47:15 ◼   ► arms race is not important.

00:47:17 ◼   ► It's like the Lucid Air is zero to 60 in two and a half seconds.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Like who cares that it's not 2.1?

00:47:21 ◼   ► It's fine, you'll be fine.

00:47:24 ◼   ► So I would suggest if you ever do look at another car,

00:47:28 ◼   ► since you seem to like the Model S type stuff,

00:47:30 ◼   ► the Lucid Air is 100% a Model S attempt

00:47:32 ◼   ► at a Model S competitor, give a peek at it

00:47:35 ◼   ► because the reviews have been pretty amazing

00:47:37 ◼   ► and it is actually out, actual customers have actual cars.

00:47:41 ◼   ► - And that's good, but I mean like,

00:47:42 ◼   ► but right now, I'm actually, so I'm not looking for a,

00:47:46 ◼   ► that's why I bought my car out at the end of its lease

00:47:47 ◼   ► because I don't like the new Model Ss

00:47:50 ◼   ► and also don't want anything else

00:47:51 ◼   ► that's in the market right now.

00:47:52 ◼   ► And so I'm hoping to get a lot of years out of it

00:47:54 ◼   ► because frankly, the first Model S I had

00:47:59 ◼   ► was I think a 2015 model year.

00:48:00 ◼   ► My current one's a 2018 model year.

00:48:03 ◼   ► And even in 2015, I think it was already

00:48:06 ◼   ► like three or four, like the car had been out

00:48:08 ◼   ► for like three or four years before that.

00:48:09 ◼   ► So they actually had worked out most of the early problems

00:48:13 ◼   ► by the time even my first one came out.

00:48:14 ◼   ► And by the time my 2018 model came out,

00:48:17 ◼   ► it was a pretty mature platform.

00:48:19 ◼   ► - And by the way, speaking of that,

00:48:20 ◼   ► have you ever looked at a video that shows you

00:48:22 ◼   ► the revisions of the door handle

00:48:23 ◼   ► between the first one and the one you have?

00:48:25 ◼   ► - No.

00:48:26 ◼   ► - It's pretty fun engineering,

00:48:28 ◼   ► and it mostly makes you think the people

00:48:29 ◼   ► who made the first door handle were just,

00:48:32 ◼   ► like, someone needed to talk to them.

00:48:33 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:48:34 ◼   ► 'Cause they eventually, like, you look at it,

00:48:36 ◼   ► and you're like, there's no way that's gonna be reliable,

00:48:38 ◼   ► and guess what, it wasn't, and the new one has, like,

00:48:40 ◼   ► 1/18th the number of parts, and it's so much more reliable.

00:48:43 ◼   ► It's like, oh, geez, guys.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, they figure it out eventually.

00:48:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like, but the thing is, like,

00:48:47 ◼   ► If I'm gonna jump into one of these newer alternatives

00:48:50 ◼   ► that's out there, first of all,

00:48:52 ◼   ► I would lose the Supercharger network.

00:48:54 ◼   ► And that's still not a great thing to lose.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Like, right now, the Supercharger network

00:48:59 ◼   ► is still very much a competitive advantage.

00:49:02 ◼   ► And I get that over time, eventually,

00:49:05 ◼   ► that will become less the case.

00:49:08 ◼   ► But right now, it's a huge competitive advantage.

00:49:10 ◼   ► And once you're accustomed to it,

00:49:12 ◼   ► you know, it's one thing,

00:49:13 ◼   ► if you're buying your first electric car,

00:49:14 ◼   ► and you know, maybe you don't know what you're missing.

00:49:16 ◼   ► But if you already had access to the Tesla Supercharger

00:49:19 ◼   ► network, to lose that, to buy another electric car that

00:49:22 ◼   ► can't use it, you'd feel that hit.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Like you wouldn't enjoy that when you take long trips.

00:49:27 ◼   ► - I think you might be able to make it upstate

00:49:28 ◼   ► without going to a charger, because the Lucid one

00:49:31 ◼   ► has 520 miles of range.

00:49:32 ◼   ► Does that get you there?

00:49:33 ◼   ► - Oh no, I can make it upstate just fine

00:49:34 ◼   ► if I'm fully charged.

00:49:36 ◼   ► But my car right now has been sitting

00:49:38 ◼   ► in the beach parking lot for a few weeks.

00:49:41 ◼   ► I probably parked it at 75%.

00:49:44 ◼   ► It's probably now more like at 65% after,

00:49:46 ◼   ► you know, maybe after 10 days,

00:49:48 ◼   ► or after two weeks maybe it lost 10%, something like that.

00:49:50 ◼   ► Maybe not that much, but it actually loses pretty slowly.

00:49:53 ◼   ► But anyway, so I'm gonna get in the car tomorrow

00:49:55 ◼   ► when I arrive there, and I'm gonna wanna go directly

00:49:58 ◼   ► somewhere far away.

00:50:00 ◼   ► And it's really nice when you have excess battery capacity

00:50:03 ◼   ► and good range, it's really nice to be able to do that,

00:50:05 ◼   ► but it's also really nice if you don't have the range

00:50:08 ◼   ► to make it home to be able to stop somewhere

00:50:10 ◼   ► 'cause you didn't, you know, you couldn't plan very well,

00:50:11 ◼   ► you couldn't leave on a full charge.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Like, having a big battery and having the supercharger

00:50:17 ◼   ► network together add flexibility for you.

00:50:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you get about half the range of the Air.

00:50:23 ◼   ► So yes, it's good to have the charging network,

00:50:25 ◼   ► but it's also good to have double the battery capacity.

00:50:27 ◼   ► - Fair enough, but I mean, that's also probably

00:50:28 ◼   ► a ridiculous amount of money.

00:50:29 ◼   ► I haven't even looked at the pricing,

00:50:31 ◼   ► but I'm sure it's absurd.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - No, it's not that bad.

00:50:34 ◼   ► I mean, they're trying to sell like the fancy one

00:50:36 ◼   ► to the early adopters, but I think actually

00:50:37 ◼   ► the long-range one is cheaper than the top of the line,

00:50:39 ◼   ► 'cause the top of the line trades range for performance,

00:50:42 ◼   ► which is probably not a choice you would make.

00:50:43 ◼   ► - Well, maybe, but still, yeah, I wouldn't.

00:50:45 ◼   ► But still, like, being in the Tesla ecosystem now,

00:50:48 ◼   ► I have the massive supercharger network,

00:50:50 ◼   ► I have my problems with their software, for sure.

00:50:52 ◼   ► It's still designed by, as far as I can tell,

00:50:55 ◼   ► a moron who has never driven a car before.

00:50:58 ◼   ► - They haven't added a circular steering wheel back either.

00:51:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like, seriously, whoever is designing this

00:51:03 ◼   ► should not, not only shouldn't be designing car UIs,

00:51:07 ◼   ► shouldn't be allowed to design car UIs,

00:51:08 ◼   ► it's literally less safe than it was before.

00:51:10 ◼   ► Like, if there were some kind of licensing,

00:51:12 ◼   ► professional licensing to design car UIs,

00:51:14 ◼   ► they should have the license revoked.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Like, that's how bad it is.

00:51:17 ◼   ► Like, anyway.

00:51:18 ◼   ► - Actually, related to weird, bad decisions

00:51:22 ◼   ► made in Tesla cars with the yoke steering wheel

00:51:24 ◼   ► that we were alluding to before,

00:51:26 ◼   ► I saw my first story about a non-Tesla manufacturer

00:51:29 ◼   ► offering a yoke-style steering wheel as an option.

00:51:31 ◼   ► I'm like, please, people, of all the things to copy,

00:51:34 ◼   ► don't copy them. (laughs)

00:51:36 ◼   ► At least it's an option.

00:51:37 ◼   ► It was Lexus, by the way.

00:51:38 ◼   ► - Wait, which car?

00:51:39 ◼   ► - It was Lexus.

00:51:40 ◼   ► - Oh god, well they're not in for their fantastic sign

00:51:42 ◼   ► either but anyway, so besides my recent software UI issues

00:51:47 ◼   ► with Tesla, their platform is mature.

00:51:50 ◼   ► It's very reliable.

00:51:52 ◼   ► I know that I'm gonna go back there tomorrow

00:51:54 ◼   ► and it's not gonna be dead and I'll be able to get

00:51:57 ◼   ► in the car and drive where I need to go

00:51:59 ◼   ► and I know it'll be fine.

00:52:01 ◼   ► I can trust it, it's proven.

00:52:03 ◼   ► I know that I can stop at Superchargers

00:52:05 ◼   ► and they'll all be perfectly fine.

00:52:06 ◼   ► They'll all have space for me.

00:52:08 ◼   ► They will all have working chargers.

00:52:10 ◼   ► The first one I pull up to will almost certainly work.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And I can tell from the car before I even get there

00:52:15 ◼   ► how many spots are free and everything.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And the car can navigate me to get there very easily

00:52:20 ◼   ► and tell me when I will need them and when I won't.

00:52:22 ◼   ► And I also know that if the car breaks

00:52:24 ◼   ► or if I need parts or if I blow a tire again,

00:52:26 ◼   ► I know how to get that.

00:52:27 ◼   ► They have really good service infrastructure

00:52:29 ◼   ► in place already.

00:52:30 ◼   ► They have dealers, they have service vans that drive around.

00:52:34 ◼   ► That's not, when you have a brand new brand,

00:52:38 ◼   ► You have to give up all that and it's much more--

00:52:41 ◼   ► - You don't have to give up all that.

00:52:42 ◼   ► All the manufacturers do all the things you said.

00:52:43 ◼   ► It's just a question of whether

00:52:45 ◼   ► they have as many charging stations.

00:52:46 ◼   ► They all will tell you how the distance

00:52:47 ◼   ► is near his charger and how many spots are open

00:52:50 ◼   ► if they're part of the network

00:52:51 ◼   ► and they'll have a service van come out to your thing.

00:52:54 ◼   ► That's the other thing with Lucid.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Remember the things that Tesla used to offer?

00:52:58 ◼   ► Like, well, $7,500 rebate from the government,

00:53:00 ◼   ► which is the thing that we have

00:53:01 ◼   ► if you're a new electric car manufacturer.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Unlimited charging at their stations and free,

00:53:06 ◼   ► like will come to your house and fix stuff or whatever,

00:53:09 ◼   ► Lucid is still kind of in that phase

00:53:10 ◼   ► where they can offer all that stuff to the early adopters,

00:53:12 ◼   ► whereas Tesla is in the phase where they're kind of

00:53:14 ◼   ► doing belt tightening and you don't get

00:53:16 ◼   ► a free supercharger anymore.

00:53:18 ◼   ► But the service experience is not ideal, let's say,

00:53:21 ◼   ► if they can't get parts or are annoying about it or whatever.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - Now that I've lived through Tesla as a younger company

00:53:27 ◼   ► with the first Model S that I had,

00:53:29 ◼   ► and now that I've had the second one,

00:53:30 ◼   ► Tesla as a more mature company that has

00:53:32 ◼   ► just more mature software,

00:53:34 ◼   ► more mature service infrastructure,

00:53:36 ◼   ► all that stuff, the idea of going backwards

00:53:39 ◼   ► to somebody who has less of that stuff figured out

00:53:42 ◼   ► and basically being someone's beta tester again for my car,

00:53:44 ◼   ► I don't have a high tolerance for that.

00:53:47 ◼   ► So I would rather either, first of all,

00:53:50 ◼   ► I'd rather keep this car as long as I can

00:53:51 ◼   ► before getting anything new, and then when it comes time

00:53:53 ◼   ► that I have to replace this car,

00:53:55 ◼   ► I'd rather either stick with Tesla,

00:53:57 ◼   ► hopefully they have something I like better by then,

00:54:00 ◼   ► or go with a manufacturer that's been around for a while

00:54:04 ◼   ► and that happened to have started making electric cars

00:54:05 ◼   ► sometime in the intervening time.

00:54:08 ◼   ► So I'd be more likely to go to check out the Audi e-tron

00:54:12 ◼   ► or something from BMW or something like that,

00:54:14 ◼   ► as opposed to one of these brand new companies

00:54:16 ◼   ► that's starting from scratch.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - You should definitely test drive it though,

00:54:19 ◼   ► 'cause by then it'll be the same age

00:54:20 ◼   ► as your original Model S, like I've had a few years,

00:54:23 ◼   ► work out the kinks, blah, blah, blah.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Fix their door handles, do all that stuff.

00:54:28 ◼   ► Definitely worth looking at doing.

00:54:29 ◼   ► By all accounts it is sort of better built

00:54:31 ◼   ► even than the current Teslas.

00:54:32 ◼   ► That's another place where it's not taking

00:54:34 ◼   ► manufacturers as many years as apparently taking Tesla to figure out how to build cars

00:54:38 ◼   ► correctly without squeaks and rattles with all the pieces aligned. So we'll see how that goes.

00:54:43 ◼   ► So we narrowly avoided talking about...

00:54:47 ◼   ► Avoided talking about Elon Musk by talking about Tesla for 15 minutes. Good job.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I do want to say, just a quick note of memorial for the author of Barefeets, the website that

00:54:58 ◼   ► always had amazing, like benchmarks of all the Mac Pro configurations and CPU options and GPU options,

00:55:06 ◼   ► and always had tons of great comparison work, all these wonderful graphs and everything. The guy

00:55:11 ◼   ► whose name was Rob Art Morgan or Robert Arthur, but he wrote as Rob Art Morgan, and he just passed

00:55:16 ◼   ► away. And I just learned about that tonight. And that was really sad to hear. I've been following

00:55:21 ◼   ► his site bare feet for a long time for years and years and years, since long before this show and

00:55:27 ◼   ► and everything, you know, basically since I started paying attention to Mac stuff like

00:55:30 ◼   ► forever ago. So yeah, just a quick note of condolences to his family and really I really

00:55:37 ◼   ► did enjoy Bare Feet a lot so really that's, it was really sad to hear.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know what it says about me or him that I just assumed it was like a bunch

00:55:44 ◼   ► of teenagers doing that site because they were always so like enthusiastic about like

00:55:48 ◼   ► let's see how fast this is against that and let's try this and let's soup this up and

00:55:51 ◼   ► let's overclock that and let's stick this video card into a Mac Pro and it just seemed

00:55:54 ◼   ► like a bunch of really excited, nerdy teenagers

00:55:58 ◼   ► just trying to like, trying out all sorts of cool tech stuff.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And he passed away at the age of 77.

00:56:04 ◼   ► So he was not a teenager.

00:56:06 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, he was, just not recently.

00:56:07 ◼   ► - At some point, but he was not a teenager

00:56:09 ◼   ► when he was sticking cool video cards into Mac Pros.

00:56:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, I was also surprised that he was that old,

00:56:13 ◼   ► but yeah, it was a great site, and I'm gonna miss it.

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00:58:18 ◼   ► - All right, let's talk to Elon Musk.

00:58:23 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, let's not.

00:58:25 ◼   ► How about Ask ATP, is it too early?

00:58:27 ◼   ► - It's too early.

00:58:28 ◼   ► - Oh man.

00:58:29 ◼   ► - I don't know why you're so against this topic.

00:58:31 ◼   ► - I have a day watch and a night watch now.

00:58:33 ◼   ► Can we talk about that instead?

00:58:34 ◼   ► - Other than you don't like Elon Musk.

00:58:36 ◼   ► - No, no, no.

00:58:38 ◼   ► So here's the story.

00:58:39 ◼   ► So as I was working out, you know, with like--

00:58:41 ◼   ► - People are gonna be mad at you just FYI.

00:58:43 ◼   ► - They're, who cares?

00:58:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:46 ◼   ► They're mad if I talk about it,

00:58:47 ◼   ► they're mad if I don't, you know?

00:58:48 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:58:49 ◼   ► - No, they're more mad if you don't.

00:58:50 ◼   ► - So, back to Apple watches,

00:58:52 ◼   ► 'cause it's anything but him.

00:58:54 ◼   ► - And by the way, this will stay in the notes

00:58:56 ◼   ► and we'll just get to it next episode.

00:58:57 ◼   ► There's no escape.

00:58:58 ◼   ► - There's always an escape.

00:58:59 ◼   ► - It's like the supercharger network, it's everywhere.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - You know how much stuff is buried in our show notes

00:59:03 ◼   ► 'cause something comes on top of it

00:59:04 ◼   ► and then eventually it just falls off the bottom.

00:59:06 ◼   ► - That could happen, but this one will probably stay

00:59:09 ◼   ► because this one is growing.

00:59:10 ◼   ► - So anyway, I realized that,

00:59:14 ◼   ► So most people, I don't think most people know this

00:59:16 ◼   ► about the Apple Watch, that if you don't like the crown

00:59:19 ◼   ► on the right side, you can flip it.

00:59:21 ◼   ► You can have it, you can flip the whole watch physically

00:59:24 ◼   ► and then go into settings and you can,

00:59:25 ◼   ► if you go into settings into the general,

00:59:27 ◼   ► I think orientation is where it is,

00:59:29 ◼   ► you can set which wrist you have the watch on

00:59:31 ◼   ► and you can also change whether the crown is on the right

00:59:34 ◼   ► or you flip the watch over and put it on the left

00:59:36 ◼   ► and then the software will then flip the screen

00:59:38 ◼   ► as necessary.

00:59:39 ◼   ► So I, you know, whenever you're like, you know,

00:59:42 ◼   ► doing a workout or something, you do like a push-up or you're, you know, or moving your

00:59:46 ◼   ► hand in a certain way where like your wrist goes up, it's very easy to accidentally push

00:59:50 ◼   ► the Siri crown button and invoke Siri when you don't want to.

00:59:54 ◼   ► I have never had that problem. I was doing push-ups a few hours ago and I've never run

00:59:59 ◼   ► into, I'm not saying your lived experience is wrong.

01:00:02 ◼   ► It depends on the shape of your wrist, maybe like how low down the watch can slide. Cause

01:00:06 ◼   ► if your watch, if you don't have a big bone on your wrist, like it's stopping the watch

01:00:09 ◼   ► from slotting real down close to your wrist,

01:00:11 ◼   ► then when you bend your hand,

01:00:13 ◼   ► like when you're doing a pushup,

01:00:14 ◼   ► if your watch can be down that low,

01:00:15 ◼   ► the back of your hand would hit the ground.

01:00:17 ◼   ► - That's true, I do have a John Sirakison nubbin on my wrist.

01:00:20 ◼   ► - Yes, it really helps.

01:00:21 ◼   ► - That does help.

01:00:22 ◼   ► - It also, it happens more like if I'm wearing gloves,

01:00:25 ◼   ► like weightlifting gloves,

01:00:26 ◼   ► like 'cause then the edge of the glove

01:00:29 ◼   ► can push the button pretty easily.

01:00:31 ◼   ► So yeah, I decided, you know,

01:00:33 ◼   ► let me try flipping my watch around

01:00:34 ◼   ► and wearing it that way for a while.

01:00:36 ◼   ► It was great during the workout,

01:00:37 ◼   ► and I hated it at all other times.

01:00:39 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:00:40 ◼   ► - Isn't this the Chalkenberry approach?

01:00:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think Chalkenberry's been doing it for years.

01:00:45 ◼   ► - He's not the only one who does this.

01:00:47 ◼   ► As people are pointing out,

01:00:48 ◼   ► the watch asks you during setup which way you want it.

01:00:50 ◼   ► So I bet a lot of people choose to do that.

01:00:51 ◼   ► - I think it asks you left or right wrist,

01:00:52 ◼   ► but does it ask you about orientation,

01:00:54 ◼   ► about the crown orientation?

01:00:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

01:00:56 ◼   ► At the very least, it's prominent in the settings

01:00:58 ◼   ► on the iPhone app.

01:01:00 ◼   ► - Anyway, I can strongly recommend

01:01:01 ◼   ► if you do any kind of thing

01:01:03 ◼   ► where you're wearing weightlifting gloves

01:01:04 ◼   ► or other things in your hand that push that button a lot,

01:01:06 ◼   ► flip it over, it's great.

01:01:07 ◼   ► However, I hated it during the rest of the day

01:01:10 ◼   ► because it turns out I scroll with the crown a lot.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And I was just not getting used to it.

01:01:14 ◼   ► It also, I don't think it looks right.

01:01:17 ◼   ► 'Cause obviously the watch is designed very clearly

01:01:19 ◼   ► to have the crown on the upper right.

01:01:22 ◼   ► If they sold one where the crown was on the upper left

01:01:25 ◼   ► instead of the lower left, I would probably buy that.

01:01:28 ◼   ► There's actually, in the watch world,

01:01:30 ◼   ► that's an occasional option that you have.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Certain watch models, it's called something like Destro,

01:01:35 ◼   ► there's some term for it, but certain watch models

01:01:38 ◼   ► will have the crown on the left side

01:01:40 ◼   ► and the side of the right.

01:01:41 ◼   ► And I actually have one of those, my crazy oil-filled sin.

01:01:44 ◼   ► It's a ridiculous thing.

01:01:46 ◼   ► But anyway, I have one of those.

01:01:47 ◼   ► It's great because it never gets in your way,

01:01:50 ◼   ► but when you do have to set it,

01:01:52 ◼   ► if you're wearing it on your left hand

01:01:53 ◼   ► and you're right-handed, that is kind of annoying.

01:01:55 ◼   ► It's more made for left-handed people

01:01:56 ◼   ► to wear it on their right hand, but anyway.

01:01:58 ◼   ► So I would totally buy that if they sold the Apple Watch

01:02:01 ◼   ► that way because it is much nicer

01:02:03 ◼   ► and I'd get used to it for scrolling.

01:02:04 ◼   ► However, I can't get over the look

01:02:07 ◼   ► as my permanent solution.

01:02:08 ◼   ► So, I took out an old Apple Watch

01:02:10 ◼   ► from my drawer of old hardware.

01:02:13 ◼   ► And I set it up as a second one,

01:02:14 ◼   ► and it was totally fine.

01:02:17 ◼   ► That's basically the end of this topic.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I wish I had more to keep delaying the inevitable,

01:02:22 ◼   ► but it was a very easy experience.

01:02:26 ◼   ► I did have to kind of reset the watch,

01:02:28 ◼   ► install clean 'cause it was freaking out

01:02:30 ◼   ► if I didn't do that.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Otherwise, it was a very easy experience,

01:02:32 ◼   ► And yeah, that's it.

01:02:36 ◼   ► What else can we talk about?

01:02:36 ◼   ► Let's start Ask ATP, because we have a lot of it together.

01:02:38 ◼   ► We're not starting Ask ATP.

01:02:40 ◼   ► - I abstain, I abstain because there's no winning this fight.

01:02:44 ◼   ► - I mean, I think at this point,

01:02:46 ◼   ► I think it might actually be more interesting

01:02:48 ◼   ► to ask you why you don't want to talk about this

01:02:50 ◼   ► than to actually talk about the topic.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Because of all the things for you not to want to,

01:02:53 ◼   ► it's not like Casey not wanting to talk about the Mac Pro

01:02:56 ◼   ► because he's not into big powerful tower computers.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Why don't you want to talk about

01:03:00 ◼   ► the Elon Musk investing in Twitter thing?

01:03:01 ◼   ► What is it about this topic that is so upsetting?

01:03:04 ◼   ► - Because I hate Elon Musk, and I hate investment talk,

01:03:07 ◼   ► and I hate Twitter.

01:03:08 ◼   ► - Well, I don't think you hate Twitter,

01:03:10 ◼   ► and investment talk?

01:03:11 ◼   ► What is investment talk?

01:03:13 ◼   ► - 'Cause I don't care.

01:03:14 ◼   ► We don't cover Apple's quarterly results.

01:03:16 ◼   ► We never talk about them,

01:03:17 ◼   ► unless there's something really interesting

01:03:18 ◼   ► that comes out, which it usually isn't, right?

01:03:20 ◼   ► We don't talk about like,

01:03:21 ◼   ► "Hey, you know, you see Facebook's new investment

01:03:23 ◼   ► "and Uber?"

01:03:25 ◼   ► We don't talk about that kind of stuff,

01:03:26 ◼   ► because we're not a financial podcast.

01:03:28 ◼   ► - Right, but this is not a financial story.

01:03:30 ◼   ► This is not a finance,

01:03:31 ◼   ► I mean, it touches on finance, but it's mostly about Twitter and the power of billionaires

01:03:36 ◼   ► and quote-unquote "free speech."

01:03:38 ◼   ► And we talk about stuff like that all the time.

01:03:39 ◼   ► We talk about app store rules and the ability for people to get things into stores and how

01:03:42 ◼   ► much power big tech companies have.

01:03:46 ◼   ► It's totally in that exact same wheelhouse.

01:03:48 ◼   ► The only difference is it involves Elon Musk now, which, granted, I know you don't like

01:03:52 ◼   ► him, but this is an opportunity to, like I said, say mean things about him.

01:03:55 ◼   ► It's not like we're going to-- I don't know.

01:03:58 ◼   ► I find it fascinating that you are so repelled by this thought.

01:04:00 ◼   ► you afraid people are gonna yell at you

01:04:01 ◼   ► 'cause like the Tesla people will come?

01:04:03 ◼   ► You already said all these nice things about Tesla,

01:04:05 ◼   ► so they're gonna like you now,

01:04:06 ◼   ► 'cause they're gonna say, yeah, Marco loves Tesla,

01:04:07 ◼   ► supercharged network forever.

01:04:09 ◼   ► - They should still fire their software designer,

01:04:11 ◼   ► but no, that's, look, he is a clown.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I love the cars that came out of the car company

01:04:18 ◼   ► that he made, but he personally is a character

01:04:22 ◼   ► that I do not enjoy, and he is, you know,

01:04:26 ◼   ► it very much like, you know, some of our

01:04:30 ◼   ► more negative political figures over the last couple of years. He thrives on attention and

01:04:36 ◼   ► is so often provocative in such a way to get negative attention or to get attention in

01:04:41 ◼   ► bad ways. And I just don't want to support that. I don't want to give him the attention

01:04:45 ◼   ► that he wants. I don't pay attention to the things he does as much as possible because

01:04:49 ◼   ► I don't want to feed the troll, you know? That's what he's doing. He trolls the world

01:04:54 ◼   ► and the last thing you want to do is feed the trolls. And I just don't want to support

01:04:59 ◼   ► I don't want to, you know, have him dictate what we talk about.

01:05:02 ◼   ► I don't want to engage in the public discourse.

01:05:05 ◼   ► Oh my God, can you believe the thing he did today?

01:05:07 ◼   ► What? Look at the stupid thing he said.

01:05:09 ◼   ► Look at the crazy thing he did.

01:05:10 ◼   ► Like, I just, I don't want to feed all that.

01:05:13 ◼   ► There is so much more in the world

01:05:14 ◼   ► that's better to talk about.

01:05:15 ◼   ► I'm drawing a blank right now for more.

01:05:19 ◼   ► But I just, I don't want to feed him.

01:05:22 ◼   ► -Well, related to that, though,

01:05:23 ◼   ► and related to Tesla cars, actually, this is actually,

01:05:27 ◼   ► I think that is not really relevant to this topic, but it is relevant to one of the reasons

01:05:31 ◼   ► why I soured on Tesla cars.

01:05:33 ◼   ► And why I, you know, it's not because I don't want to support, you know, Elon Musk.

01:05:37 ◼   ► He's got, like, he doesn't care if I buy a car.

01:05:39 ◼   ► Like, he's fine, right?

01:05:40 ◼   ► That's not what I'm talking about.

01:05:41 ◼   ► Mostly what I'm talking about is that, and this is kind of true of Apple too, when you

01:05:44 ◼   ► have a big personality who's very much in control of a company, whether it's Zuckerberg

01:05:50 ◼   ► or Jobs or Bill Gates or whatever, even though the company is made up of tons and tons of

01:05:56 ◼   ► people. The founder's personality, the person running the company, their personality can

01:06:03 ◼   ► help but come through to some degree because despite what all the hundreds or thousands

01:06:08 ◼   ► of other people in the company think or feel, especially if the company is tightly controlled

01:06:14 ◼   ► by a very hands-on CEO at the top, the instincts of the employees and the judgment of the employees

01:06:23 ◼   ► can be overridden just because Steve Jobs said everything's got to be leather in this

01:06:28 ◼   ► version of the Mac OS and no one else likes it and no one else wants it and everyone else

01:06:31 ◼   ► thinks it's a bad idea but in the end the buck stops with him and so he just makes it

01:06:36 ◼   ► happen and so you're like boy Apple has bad taste and it's like is it because Apple has

01:06:40 ◼   ► bad taste or is it because one person very high up happened to have taste and disagrees

01:06:44 ◼   ► with yours and they have the ability to make it happen across the organization.

01:06:48 ◼   ► That's a tiny little detail it's not a big deal but in Tesla the thing that really soured

01:06:51 ◼   ► me on the company, is in fact very well tied to Elon Musk as a person.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Because it eventually, especially with all the, it's not that the Tesla fans do this

01:07:03 ◼   ► or whatever, but the general discourse and attitude around Tesla very much reflects Elon

01:07:09 ◼   ► Musk's attitude.

01:07:10 ◼   ► And Elon Musk's attitude, and I'm going to compare this to Jobs because he has a similar

01:07:12 ◼   ► thing but slightly different, but Elon Musk's attitude towards, about Tesla and the cars

01:07:17 ◼   ► is pretty much if there's something wrong with a Tesla car, you got one and it has a

01:07:23 ◼   ► defect or you don't like the fact that the defroster isn't up here, whatever your complaint

01:07:27 ◼   ► is legitimate or not, you have some complaint about the car or your thing came and it has

01:07:31 ◼   ► got weird panel gaps or you've been waiting too long to get your thing or they changed

01:07:34 ◼   ► the price on you when you pre-ordered, whatever your complaint is about the car.

01:07:38 ◼   ► Elon Musk is specifically the person, not Tesla the company, but Elon Musk is specifically

01:07:42 ◼   ► the person as evidenced by his own words, which he has plenty of online, mostly on Twitter

01:07:46 ◼   ► for you to see, his attitude is basically like,

01:07:50 ◼   ► as soon as you say something bad about Tesla,

01:07:53 ◼   ► it's time to discredit you,

01:07:54 ◼   ► say you're just trying to short the stock,

01:07:56 ◼   ► you're a hater, you know,

01:07:58 ◼   ► and let me just dig up dirt on your background

01:08:00 ◼   ► and dox you and just like all the worst kind of things

01:08:03 ◼   ► you can imagine, it's like the second you are not 100% loyal

01:08:06 ◼   ► to Tesla and say anything bad about it,

01:08:08 ◼   ► even if it's legitimate,

01:08:09 ◼   ► doesn't matter what your complaint is,

01:08:11 ◼   ► Elon Musk wants you to die.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And you know, obviously not literally, right?

01:08:15 ◼   ► And it's like, so what?

01:08:16 ◼   ► He's a big baby, like you said, he's just loud,

01:08:18 ◼   ► he wants attention, like that's just one person.

01:08:21 ◼   ► That's not the company.

01:08:22 ◼   ► The company is filled with really good engineers

01:08:23 ◼   ► and employees who wanna make the best cars

01:08:25 ◼   ► and believe in the mission and are doing real good work

01:08:27 ◼   ► and look at how revolutionary Tesla's been

01:08:30 ◼   ► and so on and so forth.

01:08:31 ◼   ► I agree with all that, but at a certain point,

01:08:33 ◼   ► I got the feeling that the reaction of the company

01:08:38 ◼   ► to any problem, any time they do anything wrong,

01:08:40 ◼   ► is to discredit the people who are complaining about it

01:08:45 ◼   ► and deny that anything is ever wrong.

01:08:47 ◼   ► And I never want to buy something as important as a car

01:08:49 ◼   ► from a company that I feel that attitude coming from,

01:08:53 ◼   ► as opposed to a company that's like,

01:08:55 ◼   ► if there's ever anything wrong with our car,

01:08:58 ◼   ► we're gonna swoop down and say,

01:08:59 ◼   ► what do we have to do to fix this?

01:09:00 ◼   ► We're gonna fix it right away.

01:09:01 ◼   ► Now, you can name a million car companies like,

01:09:03 ◼   ► well, they're all like this.

01:09:04 ◼   ► Volkswagen is lying about their emissions things,

01:09:06 ◼   ► and they got caught in it,

01:09:08 ◼   ► and they were forcing their engineers

01:09:09 ◼   ► to make their things, fake stuff out on tests

01:09:12 ◼   ► to spew chemicals in the air.

01:09:14 ◼   ► What a terrible company or whatever you're like the unsafe at any speed, but I remember the company that was was that Ford

01:09:19 ◼   ► Oh, no, Chevy Corvair, maybe

01:09:22 ◼   ► I know exactly what you're thinking about

01:09:24 ◼   ► Yeah, that car is gonna blow up but we're not gonna tell you about it. Like all car companies are bad or whatever

01:09:29 ◼   ► I mean I get where you're coming from that

01:09:31 ◼   ► But just like my feeling of is that Tesla as a company because of the way Musk runs

01:09:35 ◼   ► It is not the type of company that I trust to make a car and that's you know, my personal decision

01:09:40 ◼   ► I don't think that you know again the cars are what they are

01:09:42 ◼   ► If you like them and the best fit for what you want, you know by all means go for it

01:09:46 ◼   ► But that's what I feel for him and that's why I became disillusioned with Tesla

01:09:50 ◼   ► That's why I sold my two shares of Tesla stock like, you know, five years ago

01:09:53 ◼   ► Whatever it was because I'm like no as long as he's running this company

01:09:57 ◼   ► It is never going to be run the way I think a car company should I don't agree with any of his opinions or tastes

01:10:03 ◼   ► And his entire attitude about that about basically everything it does not just Tesla but everything he does he acts like

01:10:09 ◼   ► I'm trying to find the correct analogy for it, but I think we've all met people like this.

01:10:13 ◼   ► It's like, if you are not 100% for them and are just sort of a sycophant and telling them

01:10:19 ◼   ► everything they do is great, as soon as you have one single complaint about anything,

01:10:23 ◼   ► it's all at war, you are a persona non grata, and you are just a terrible person, and you

01:10:28 ◼   ► don't understand, and you deserve the full force of a multi-bazillionaire trying to rain

01:10:35 ◼   ► down hell on you from high and he's not above doing shady things and telling people in his

01:10:40 ◼   ► company to do bad things and to the extent that he's able to force them to do so or they're

01:10:44 ◼   ► on the same page as him, stuff like that happens.

01:10:46 ◼   ► This is before we get into like all the, you know, labor relations stuff and the racist

01:10:52 ◼   ► things happening in his factories or whatever.

01:10:53 ◼   ► You can't blame the person on top for every single thing like that, but when you see his

01:10:56 ◼   ► actual attitude and you see those things happen in his company, you're like, "Yeah, that fits.

01:11:00 ◼   ► I can see how he could know about that and not care because it's not, you know, it doesn't

01:11:04 ◼   ► concern him and it's not a big deal and too bad for those suckers or whatever.

01:11:09 ◼   ► So anyway, I'm on the same page with you with not liking Elon Musk, and so much so that

01:11:14 ◼   ► it just turned me off to his entire line of cars and pretty much anything that he does.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I felt like he is ill-equipped to do that.

01:11:20 ◼   ► I mentioned I would bring this back to Steve Jobs.

01:11:23 ◼   ► His attitude was kind of similar but not quite the same because Steve Jobs desperately wants

01:11:28 ◼   ► everyone to like his products, but if you don't like them, if you don't like them for

01:11:33 ◼   ► for a stupid reason he's gonna be bad about it,

01:11:35 ◼   ► but in the end he does want you to like them

01:11:36 ◼   ► so he's gonna fix the product.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Think about antenna gate.

01:11:39 ◼   ► He thought that was a stupid controversy,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but the next iPhone had a different antenna, right?

01:11:43 ◼   ► And you know, he was pissy when he said,

01:11:45 ◼   ► you want a bumper?

01:11:46 ◼   ► Fine, here's a stupid bumper case, right?

01:11:47 ◼   ► He thought it was unfair and stupid or whatever,

01:11:49 ◼   ► but the bottom line is he wanted the iPhone

01:11:51 ◼   ► to be a better phone.

01:11:52 ◼   ► So it's not like he said, in fact,

01:11:54 ◼   ► all future iPhones are gonna have this antenna design

01:11:56 ◼   ► just to show how terrible you are.

01:11:58 ◼   ► Like sort of the Musk attitude towards

01:12:00 ◼   ► the yoke steering wheel.

01:12:01 ◼   ► You don't like the yoke steering wheel?

01:12:02 ◼   ► Guess what, the round one's not even an option.

01:12:03 ◼   ► I know you saw pictures of it,

01:12:04 ◼   ► but forget it, everyone's getting the yolk, right?

01:12:07 ◼   ► It's a subtle difference, 'cause Jobs is also a jerk,

01:12:09 ◼   ► but he was a jerk in a much different way,

01:12:12 ◼   ► in a way that I think produced better products

01:12:14 ◼   ► and was more aligned with attempting

01:12:17 ◼   ► to do right by the customer.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Steve Jobs would berate underlings and yell at employees

01:12:23 ◼   ► because they weren't serving the customers well.

01:12:26 ◼   ► If you wrote to Steve Jobs with a sob story,

01:12:28 ◼   ► he would forward it to one of his people to say,

01:12:30 ◼   ► "Fix this," right?

01:12:31 ◼   ► and he'd be mean to the people who work for him,

01:12:33 ◼   ► which is not great, but the point is,

01:12:35 ◼   ► he wanted it fixed for the employee,

01:12:38 ◼   ► whereas Musk would say, "Find this person

01:12:40 ◼   ► "and get them fired.

01:12:41 ◼   ► "I know they don't work for us,

01:12:42 ◼   ► "but you can probably dig some dirt up on them,

01:12:44 ◼   ► "but they're really annoying us

01:12:45 ◼   ► "and they're probably just trying to short the stock."

01:12:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, and for me, I avoid talking about Musk

01:12:51 ◼   ► because the contingent of people

01:12:54 ◼   ► who treat Tesla as their team,

01:12:58 ◼   ► and we're guilty of that, all of us, for various things,

01:13:01 ◼   ► arguably the three of us for Apple,

01:13:02 ◼   ► but I like to think that we can criticize Apple

01:13:05 ◼   ► and find problems with Apple.

01:13:06 ◼   ► But as you guys said, especially Jon,

01:13:10 ◼   ► when you criticize Tesla and/or criticize Elon,

01:13:14 ◼   ► there are people for whom Tesla and Elon are their team

01:13:18 ◼   ► and they will do anything, like you said, Jon,

01:13:20 ◼   ► to make it very clear how disappointed in you they are,

01:13:25 ◼   ► and that's what bothers me.

01:13:26 ◼   ► - On that point, Casey, though, about the fans,

01:13:29 ◼   ► that happens and that's a thing,

01:13:30 ◼   ► and it's annoying, but those fans have no control over how Tesla makes cars, more or

01:13:35 ◼   ► less.

01:13:36 ◼   ► And that's why it's so much worse for me.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Even if there was a rabid fanbase like that, like arguably Apple has had, and if you ask

01:13:43 ◼   ► some people, it continues to have a rabid fanbase like that.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And it's annoying and it sucks and it's not fun to be on the other end of that, but that's

01:13:50 ◼   ► sort of a sideshow.

01:13:51 ◼   ► If the CEO of the company is like that, if the CEO of the company has an attitude that's

01:13:55 ◼   ► as bad as or worse than the worst rabid fan type thing,

01:13:59 ◼   ► that's bad because the CEO is supposed to be trying to

01:14:03 ◼   ► make customers happy and make better products,

01:14:06 ◼   ► not say the second you have any kind of complaint,

01:14:10 ◼   ► I hate you forever and I'm not gonna listen to you.

01:14:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, completely agree.

01:14:13 ◼   ► But let's try to soldier through this real quick.

01:14:16 ◼   ► So Elon Musk has invested in Twitter,

01:14:18 ◼   ► and we're gonna go through a quick timeline which--

01:14:20 ◼   ► - Alright, let's do some Ask ATP.

01:14:23 ◼   ► - We're gonna go through a quick timeline--

01:14:24 ◼   ► - Karen Kilkoff asks--

01:14:26 ◼   ► - No, we'll get through it.

01:14:27 ◼   ► I can do it fast if you don't want to, Casey,

01:14:29 ◼   ► but one of us will do it.

01:14:30 ◼   ► - All right, so The Verge wrote at some point,

01:14:33 ◼   ► I guess like a week ago now,

01:14:34 ◼   ► that Elon Musk bought 9.2% of Twitter

01:14:36 ◼   ► amid complaints about free speech.

01:14:38 ◼   ► So he bought just a little less than 10%.

01:14:41 ◼   ► According to the filing,

01:14:42 ◼   ► Musk purchased the stake on March 14th.

01:14:45 ◼   ► He has long been one of Twitter's highest profile users

01:14:47 ◼   ► and recently polled his over 80 million followers

01:14:51 ◼   ► about the platform's adherence to free speech.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Twitter's share price was up over 25% in the pre-market trading on the news.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Musk has been publicly calling into question whether Twitter's approach to free speech

01:14:59 ◼   ► via a poll conducted on his Twitter account on March 25th.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Like I said, free speech is essential to a functioning democracy, he said.

01:15:05 ◼   ► Do you believe Twitter rigorously adheres to this principle?

01:15:09 ◼   ► The CEO asked before noting in a follow-up tweet that, quote, "The consequences of this

01:15:12 ◼   ► poll will be important."

01:15:14 ◼   ► So the Washington Post wrote that he delayed filing a form that announced his either intention

01:15:21 ◼   ► to or completion of purchasing the stock that he did and because he delayed that nobody

01:15:27 ◼   ► knew he was going to buy the stock so then he bought the stock then the stock went up

01:15:31 ◼   ► 25% or whatever I just said so he basically made himself 150 million dollars. Must be

01:15:36 ◼   ► friggin nice. Elon Musk was 11 days late and publicly declaring that he had amassed a huge

01:15:41 ◼   ► stake in Twitter that omission may have earned him 156 million according to a half dozen

01:15:45 ◼   ► legal insecurities experts. That's because of a 50 year old law that requires investors

01:15:48 ◼   ► notify the security and exchange commission when they surpass a 5% stake in a company.

01:15:53 ◼   ► Musk reached that benchmark on March 14th, according to the filings, but he made his

01:15:58 ◼   ► public disclosure only a week or two ago. In between, he continued to buy stock at the

01:16:02 ◼   ► price of around $39 a share, bringing his total stake to 9.2%. After his disclosure,

01:16:07 ◼   ► Twitter's share price rose to roughly 30% and is now above $50 a share.

01:16:10 ◼   ► So the idea is that if people knew he was planning on buying this much, the share price

01:16:15 ◼   ► would have gone up before he could buy it all, because you can't just buy it all at

01:16:17 ◼   ► It's just too much stock, right?

01:16:18 ◼   ► So he's buying it slowly over time.

01:16:20 ◼   ► And when you cross the 5% threshold,

01:16:23 ◼   ► you have to tell people so that all the other people

01:16:26 ◼   ► who have Tesla stock know,

01:16:27 ◼   ► "Oh, Elon Musk is about to buy things.

01:16:28 ◼   ► The stock's probably gonna go up,"

01:16:29 ◼   ► and that would drive the price up.

01:16:30 ◼   ► But by not telling anybody,

01:16:32 ◼   ► he got to keep buying at the low price

01:16:34 ◼   ► because nobody knew that he was planning to buy 9.2%.

01:16:37 ◼   ► And when I say he made 156 million,

01:16:39 ◼   ► it's because he was able to buy the rest of his shares

01:16:42 ◼   ► at the low price that was quote unquote, "artificially low"

01:16:46 ◼   ► because he didn't disclose as the law dictates that he's supposed to that he was planning

01:16:49 ◼   ► on buying more.

01:16:50 ◼   ► But what the hell does Elon Musk care about laws that are involving finance?

01:16:53 ◼   ► He breaks them all the time.

01:16:55 ◼   ► In fact, he's forbidden from being on the Tesla board because of past law breaking,

01:17:00 ◼   ► most of which the SEC didn't punish and just slapped him on the wrist.

01:17:02 ◼   ► But eventually he was banned from being on the Tesla board and got some sort of other

01:17:07 ◼   ► wrist slapping fines or whatever.

01:17:08 ◼   ► But basically he just breaks the law when he feels like having to do with finance, which

01:17:12 ◼   ► is one of the things that you can do when you're a billionaire.

01:17:15 ◼   ► of the many, many things. All right, so after that happened, Parekh Agrawal, who is the

01:17:21 ◼   ► Twitter CEO, wrote on April 5th at about 8.30 in the morning, "I'm excited to share that

01:17:26 ◼   ► we're appointing Elon Musk to our board. Through conversations with Elon in recent weeks, it's

01:17:30 ◼   ► become clear to us that he would bring great value to our board." And then, just a little

01:17:36 ◼   ► while later, Twitter says Elon Musk won't get special treatment from its rules, even

01:17:42 ◼   ► as a board member. Sure, totally. Nelia Patel wrote, "Twitter's in a tough place with Elon

01:17:48 ◼   ► on the board. He's promising changes, but the company's telling us, and by extension

01:17:51 ◼   ► its employees, that Elon is not going to make content policy decisions." So then, five days

01:17:57 ◼   ► after the announcement that he's going to be on the board, the Twitter CEO writes, "Elon

01:18:02 ◼   ► has decided not to join our board. The board and I had many discussions about Elon joining

01:18:06 ◼   ► the board and with Elon directly. We were excited to collaborate and clear about the

01:18:10 ◼   ► We also believe that having Elon as a fiduciary of the company where he, like all board members, has to act in the best interests of the company and all our shareholders, was the best path forward.

01:18:19 ◼   ► The board offered him a seat.

01:18:20 ◼   ► We announced on Tuesday that Elon would be appointed to the board contingent on a background check and formal acceptance.

01:18:25 ◼   ► Elon's appointment to the board was to become officially effective on the 9th of April, but Elon shared that same morning that he would no longer be joining the board.

01:18:32 ◼   ► I believe this is for the best.

01:18:34 ◼   ► We have and will always value input from our shareholders whether they are on our board or not.

01:18:37 ◼   ► Elon is our biggest shareholder and we will remain open to his input. There will be distractions

01:18:41 ◼   ► ahead, but our goals and priorities remain unchanged. The decisions we make and how we

01:18:46 ◼   ► execute is in our hands and no one else's. Let's tune out the noise and stay focused

01:18:49 ◼   ► on the work and what we're building." Tune out the noise like Elon Musk you say? Like

01:18:54 ◼   ► cheesy peasy. Do we have any comments on this or do you want me to just hold your hand?

01:18:58 ◼   ► Get to the final stage so far and then I'll comment on the whole deal.

01:19:03 ◼   ► All right, so Elon Musk is then sued for delayed disclosure of his Twitter stake.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Twitter Inc. shareholder sued Elon Musk alleging the billionaire committed securities fraud by

01:19:10 ◼   ► delaying his disclosure of his stake in the social media company. In the lawsuit filed in the U.S.

01:19:17 ◼   ► District Court for the Southern District of New York on Tuesday, Mark Bain, Rosella, alleges that

01:19:22 ◼   ► Mr. Musk didn't properly disclose his Twitter stake within the required time frame. The suit

01:19:26 ◼   ► alleges that the move personally benefited Mr. Musk and could have hurt other shareholders

01:19:31 ◼   ► who had sold the stock.

01:19:33 ◼   ► And that's where we are today.

01:19:34 ◼   ► By the time you hear this episode,

01:19:35 ◼   ► who knows what else would have happened.

01:19:36 ◼   ► But this is totally in keeping with Marco's description

01:19:41 ◼   ► of the typical Elon Musk type of thing.

01:19:43 ◼   ► The first thing you have to understand is the sort of very basic,

01:19:47 ◼   ► you know, 12-year-old boy misunderstanding of free speech,

01:19:51 ◼   ► that why aren't I allowed to do whatever I want on Twitter.

01:19:54 ◼   ► That's, you know, my first amendment rights are being infringed or whatever,

01:20:00 ◼   ► which is I would hope that everyone listening to this understands the difference between

01:20:04 ◼   ► Twitter deciding what you're allowed to post on Twitter and the US government putting you in jail for saying something right very different things here

01:20:12 ◼   ► but the people get it into their head the idea that

01:20:15 ◼   ► You know that I should be able to

01:20:19 ◼   ► Say whatever I want on Twitter and that if Twitter does anything to impair my personal ability to say what I want to say

01:20:25 ◼   ► That's infringed on my rights and a great injustice as opposed to you know

01:20:30 ◼   ► what it actually is, which is a private company deciding

01:20:33 ◼   ► what you're allowed to do on their platform

01:20:34 ◼   ► that you don't even pay to be on.

01:20:35 ◼   ► And even if you did pay to be on, it wouldn't matter.

01:20:37 ◼   ► It's like, it's a ridiculous nonsensical thing

01:20:40 ◼   ► that basically amounts to a temper tantrum.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Elon Musk has been on Twitter for a long time,

01:20:43 ◼   ► he says all sorts of things.

01:20:44 ◼   ► Mostly he commits securities fraud on Twitter by

01:20:46 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:20:48 ◼   ► pumping up stocks and then, you know,

01:20:50 ◼   ► or maybe not securities fraud,

01:20:53 ◼   ► but he does things like, you know, hyping up Dogecoin.

01:20:56 ◼   ► All he's got to, he's got so many followers,

01:20:57 ◼   ► all he's got to do is say something to hype it up

01:20:59 ◼   ► and people get all excited about it.

01:21:01 ◼   ► And so he can drive the price of cryptocurrencies

01:21:04 ◼   ► up and down depending on what he says,

01:21:06 ◼   ► and he can drive the prices of stock up and down

01:21:08 ◼   ► depending on what he says.

01:21:09 ◼   ► Sometimes it's legal, sometimes it's not,

01:21:12 ◼   ► but it is a power that he has as a person

01:21:14 ◼   ► with a very big sort of cult following of people

01:21:16 ◼   ► who are willing to put their money where his mouth is.

01:21:19 ◼   ► That's just, I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong

01:21:23 ◼   ► with having that power except that what he does with it

01:21:24 ◼   ► is jerk people around and enrich himself

01:21:27 ◼   ► to no good sort of end that benefits the world

01:21:31 ◼   ► or anyone other than him for the most part.

01:21:33 ◼   ► Despite his reputation as like,

01:21:34 ◼   ► "Oh, he's saving the world with electric cars."

01:21:36 ◼   ► Like his attitude and ideas about how to quote unquote

01:21:39 ◼   ► save the world are so terrible and so stupid

01:21:42 ◼   ► that the good he does is very often eclipsed

01:21:44 ◼   ► by the bad he is also doing at the same time.

01:21:47 ◼   ► So that's like, why is he doing stuff?

01:21:50 ◼   ► And why is he buy a bunch of stuff?

01:21:52 ◼   ► Well, when you're, you know, argue,

01:21:53 ◼   ► I don't know if it's the, what stats are,

01:21:55 ◼   ► but someone said he's the richest person in the world

01:21:56 ◼   ► close to the richest person in the world.

01:21:58 ◼   ► When you're annoyed that Twitter is not letting you say what you want, which by the way, I

01:22:02 ◼   ► don't know why he's annoyed.

01:22:03 ◼   ► He's not like he's getting banned from Twitter or Twitter stopping him from saying stuff,

01:22:06 ◼   ► but like whatever, he's cranky about something.

01:22:07 ◼   ► Maybe he's cranky that people respond to him and say mean things and he's not allowed to

01:22:10 ◼   ► like ban them from Twitter.

01:22:12 ◼   ► But what you can do is you can just become the biggest shareholder on Twitter.

01:22:16 ◼   ► And of course you can make a bunch of money at the same time if you don't tell people