00:00:08 ◼ ► Well, we used to do the same things. I don't know. I don't have a favorite part. I like all the parts.
00:00:12 ◼ ► We go to the beach, we eat food that we can only get there, I try to sleep late, take a lot of pictures.
00:00:20 ◼ ► You know, the whole deal. There were a couple of pictures that I saw. I think I saw them somewhere
00:00:26 ◼ ► private, like in a slack somewhere or something like that. But there were a couple of pictures I
00:00:30 ◼ ► saw that appeared to me to have been taken with a big camera with big glass, but with you perilously
00:00:37 ◼ ► close to being submerged in water. I was quite impressed by your bravery in taking those pictures.
00:00:48 ◼ ► Yeah, almost, no, almost all of my pictures that I take of people in the ocean, I'm also standing
00:00:53 ◼ ► up to my knees or waist, depending on the position of the waves in the ocean. And once again, I
00:00:58 ◼ ► managed not to get knocked over. And once again, I managed to almost get knocked over many times.
00:01:07 ◼ ► But the particular picture you're talking about was not taken by me. It was taken by my brother
00:01:13 ◼ ► with a not so great but waterproof camera. And that's not a zoom. People would be saying,
00:01:22 ◼ ► on the side of the person. It doesn't matter. I would have to be just as far from the shore
00:01:37 ◼ ► three feet away alongside the person on the wave. So yeah, you can look at... It's hard to see on
00:01:44 ◼ ► Instagram because that's where you saw that. But if you look close, you can see that camera's
00:01:48 ◼ ► not that great. It's not even as good as an iPhone camera, I feel like, but it is waterproof.
00:02:00 ◼ ► I saw it and I was like, "Oh." Because I knew your... I don't know if predilection is the
00:02:07 ◼ ► word I'm looking for, but your habit of getting into the water deeper than I would be brave enough
00:02:13 ◼ ► to do in order to take these pictures, which are great. They're great pictures. I'm not trying to
00:02:17 ◼ ► say you're making a mistake. It's just, "Woof." I have a bad history with water, so I get scared
00:02:22 ◼ ► easily. Yeah, understandable. I think this year I came the closest to losing it because the waves
00:02:28 ◼ ► on a couple of days were particularly rough. And they were the kind of waves where it's even for
00:02:36 ◼ ► a long time and you think, "I can just stand here." And this is pretty much the level of the water,
00:02:40 ◼ ► and it's just going to be those little rumblers coming in. And then one smacker comes in and just
00:02:46 ◼ ► smacks you real hard. I stumbled many times. I didn't go down. I didn't go down with one hand.
00:02:52 ◼ ► I didn't have to hold the camera up above me, but I stumbled many times. And at this point,
00:02:57 ◼ ► it's kind of like a death wish where it's like, "Go ahead and knock me over. I'll just buy a
00:03:00 ◼ ► fancier camera." Because apparently I can't make myself buy a fancier camera for way more money,
00:03:04 ◼ ► but if this one got destroyed, I would be like, "All right, well, I guess I have to get a better
00:03:07 ◼ ► camera now." I have no choice. There's nothing I can do. Rationalization is powerful. But I do
00:03:13 ◼ ► always bring a backup camera with me. So yeah, I would ask why you don't get something like a GoPro,
00:03:18 ◼ ► but the pictures would be garbage on a GoPro by comparison. So I understand it, but you're braver
00:03:23 ◼ ► than me. Yeah, you can do video in some cases. Some things we had would have been good for video,
00:03:27 ◼ ► but I don't take video on my fancy camera, and I wasn't about to do it on my iPhone either.
00:03:32 ◼ ► Out of curiosity, what is your backup camera? It's just my previous camera. It's the Tim Cook
00:03:37 ◼ ► method. What is it? A Panasonic Super Zoom? So you say you don't have a favorite part. I'm not
00:03:46 ◼ ► asking you to pick your favorite child, although I bet you that exists, and I won't ask you who
00:03:49 ◼ ► it is. But you don't have any particular favorite part? Everything is just its own perfect special
00:04:01 ◼ ► Because I've recently been dieting, so it was nice to... All diets were off on my own for the
00:04:06 ◼ ► most part, and there's the particular place they like to get pies on Long Island. And so...
00:04:10 ◼ ► Wait, to be clear, we're not talking pizza. We're talking savory or maybe even sweet pies.
00:04:22 ◼ ► whatever. I'm all about the blueberry. Well, how? It's good. That was not the answer I expected at
00:04:32 ◼ ► You know, this is just a particular place that we got pies when I was growing up. The place is out
00:04:37 ◼ ► east, and where I go out east is really close to that place. Where I live was not close to it,
00:04:42 ◼ ► so it was quite a trek to ever go out and get those pies. But now when we go on vacation,
00:04:45 ◼ ► we're right there. It's like five minutes away. So just go there and buy three or four pies and just
00:05:06 ◼ ► Yes. Now, first of all, I want to set aside that for everyone. Has anybody ever actually eaten the,
00:05:14 ◼ ► quote, "complete breakfast" that breakfast cereals always advertised they were a part of?
00:05:20 ◼ ► Probably. Like, it was mostly just fruit and stuff, right? It was like fruit. You had the
00:05:24 ◼ ► bowl of cereal, and you had fruit in the cereal. Then you had separate fruit, and then you had,
00:05:33 ◼ ► I don't think you need the glass of milk, because that goes in the cereal. But the orange juice,
00:05:36 ◼ ► yeah. I feel like the breakfast they give you on British Airways has a lot of stuff in it. I feel
00:05:47 ◼ ► to the pies now. I have one more question about the pies. I noticed in my travels on Long Island
00:06:02 ◼ ► No one should ever do that, and if they're doing that, they're ruining Long Island. They need to
00:06:06 ◼ ► stop. No one ever did that when I was growing up there, and I'm very angry and sad to learn that
00:06:12 ◼ ► you found that exists anywhere on Long Island. I did, yeah. And honestly, I am in agreement with
00:06:17 ◼ ► you. I was not a fan of sesame seeds on pizza crust. Now, I'm curious. Do they add sesame
00:06:31 ◼ ► upsetting to me. I'm already upset by your weird uncooked cheese crap thing that you get on...
00:06:36 ◼ ► It's called cold cheese and boom boom, Jon. Yeah, I know. I make a lot of allowances for
00:06:42 ◼ ► what I call East End pizza because things get weird when you go out there. It's like, "All
00:06:45 ◼ ► right. Well, you have nice beaches. You have to sacrifice something, and something has the ability
00:07:03 ◼ ► other than this one? I don't know. I mean, things you get out east in the summer on the island,
00:07:16 ◼ ► So they're fresh. It's got to... I don't know. It's just... You've seen what blueberry pie is like.
00:07:22 ◼ ► It's just blueberries. There's not really lots of ingredients in it. It's a pie crust with tons and
00:07:27 ◼ ► tons of blueberries in it, and that's it. It can't be too runny, I guess. It has to have some
00:07:33 ◼ ► consistency to hold up. It's got to taste like blueberries, and it's just wall to wall purple
00:07:37 ◼ ► blue blueberries. Top and bottom crust or just bottom crust and open top? Top and bottom.
00:07:44 ◼ ► Lattice or not lattice? This place is not lattice, but I don't mind one way or the other.
00:07:51 ◼ ► See, I'm not a... I don't know if I've ever had a blueberry pie, to be completely honest,
00:08:10 ◼ ► blueberries. There are certain scenarios where I love blueberries, like a blueberry muffin,
00:08:13 ◼ ► for example, but I do love apple pie. I love, love, love, love apple pie, and I have an interesting
00:08:20 ◼ ► relationship with the lattice top because I think as a work of art it is deeply impressive,
00:08:25 ◼ ► and it's clearly very intense to put together and do properly and whatnot, but the crust is one of
00:08:30 ◼ ► the best parts of a pie, and I feel like I'm missing out on half the darn crust if it's a
00:08:34 ◼ ► lattice pie. I want the whole pie crust up top and on the bottom. See, to me, I prefer crumble
00:08:41 ◼ ► pies. Like, you know, the bottom... I respect a good crust, and Tiff's actually really good
00:08:45 ◼ ► at baking pies, and her crusts are awesome and makes me respect them even more. However,
00:08:49 ◼ ► I also really like a crumble pie where the top crust is replaced by clumps of like brown sugar
00:08:55 ◼ ► and butter, basically. Oh, yeah, I can get behind that. You know, like a coffee cake kind of thing,
00:08:59 ◼ ► but like, you know, you can have a crumble top pie of almost any kind of fruit pie, and it works
00:09:03 ◼ ► pretty well, and it is totally ridiculous in the sense of here's more blobs of fat and sugar to add
00:09:09 ◼ ► to your pie, but boy does it make a good pie, and I feel like it's hard to get a good crust,
00:09:21 ◼ ► but it's rare that they're good because it's really hard, as I know from Tiff doing it at home,
00:09:25 ◼ ► it's really hard to get both top and bottom crusts cooked properly, you know, without burning one or
00:09:30 ◼ ► undercooking one or having it get too soggy or anything like that. And so it's much easier. Like,
00:09:35 ◼ ► the crumble pies seem to be more consistent for me. Like, you can get pretty much any crumble pie,
00:09:41 ◼ ► and it's probably going to be really good. That's why you buy your pies. The place I buy my pies
00:09:44 ◼ ► from, top and bottom crusts, always cooked all the way through, always even, always good, although,
00:09:48 ◼ ► like I said, some people don't like crusts. Like, I'll see even people in my family, though,
00:09:52 ◼ ► that you give them a slice of pie, they'll eat it, and in the end, they'll be like the sort of the
00:09:57 ◼ ► - Monsters. - Or they'll just, like, eat out the filling and just leave the crust behind. It's like,
00:10:01 ◼ ► what are you even doing? So not everyone is all on board pie. - In all fairness, I see why people
00:10:06 ◼ ► can get there because there are bad crusts out there. Like, if it's a really good crust, I'm
00:10:11 ◼ ► eating the crust as much as I'm eating the pie. - Yep. - But if it's like a really crappy crust,
00:10:15 ◼ ► or it's really like overcooked or stale, so it's kind of like gummy, at the end, like little folded
00:10:19 ◼ ► over part, I can understand why, like, you know, maybe like one bad crust ruined somebody forever.
00:10:25 ◼ ► - I don't know, man. I know when Erin makes her annual apple pie or apple pies, if it's a good
00:10:30 ◼ ► year, she has some sort of ridiculous procedure where certain pieces of the top get covered in
00:10:35 ◼ ► aluminum foil at certain stages for certain stretches of time to fight exactly what you're
00:10:39 ◼ ► talking about, Marco. It's the same story. - Yeah, like making a good pie crust top and bottom is
00:10:44 ◼ ► hard. It takes some very advanced baking skill to do it. - Yeah. So anyway, I was not expecting the
00:10:51 ◼ ► pie to be the highlight of your peach vacation, but you know what? You do you, Jon. - Whipped cream,
00:10:56 ◼ ► ice cream, or neither? - Ice cream. - Definitely ice cream. - Vanilla only or any flavor permissible?
00:11:01 ◼ ► - Oh, vanilla only. - Vanilla only. But I mean, other flavors will be fine, but I want vanilla.
00:11:07 ◼ ► If they only have strawberry, fine. If they only have chocolate, I want vanilla though. - See,
00:11:17 ◼ ► I usually prefer whipped cream. - No, so much so, I was thinking about this when I was having the
00:11:23 ◼ ► pie. I always said, like, you know, we get the pie and we also get the ice cream, right? And I
00:11:27 ◼ ► was thinking, if we didn't have the ice cream, I would forego the pie and wait until we had the ice
00:11:31 ◼ ► cream. Like, I don't even want the pie. I don't even want the pie without the ice cream because
00:11:35 ◼ ► I feel like it's a waste of a piece of pie. - Wow, you must really hate pie. - No, I want the
00:11:41 ◼ ► combination. I don't want to waste the pie in a suboptimal eating arrangement, right? Because
00:11:48 ◼ ► there's limited pie and then you're there for a limited time, why waste a piece that's, you know,
00:11:53 ◼ ► not going to be as good as it could be? And I like a lot of ice cream. - See, to me, I like fresh
00:11:58 ◼ ► whipped cream that only has a little tiny bit of sugar in it because to me, like, having a mostly
00:12:04 ◼ ► not sweetened whipped cream helps balance out the very sweet pie. And I like the contrast between
00:12:10 ◼ ► the two. Whereas ice cream is so sweet, it's kind of like sugar bomb on top of sugar bomb.
00:12:15 ◼ ► - Well, you got to try the different pies. Like, what was it? Raspberry cherry we had was actually
00:12:21 ◼ ► a little bit tart, right? So the whole pie, the crust is savory and the filling is tart and then
00:12:31 ◼ ► Let's start with some follow-up. Michael Alderetti, I'm sorry, Michael, if that's wrong, writes in,
00:12:38 ◼ ► "Hey guys, I just got to the crash plan part of the latest episode and I literally just this week
00:12:41 ◼ ► went through solving the problems that Jon mentions, missing menu bar, etc. I have some notes.
00:12:45 ◼ ► According to Michael, you still have the Java client, Jon, and it's running out of memory and
00:12:49 ◼ ► parts of the client are dying and there's never anything in the log or history about this," to
00:12:53 ◼ ► which Michael grumbles. "You can check this by launching the main client app and then pressing
00:12:57 ◼ ► command option C to bring up the console, then type Java MX to see your memory allocation.
00:13:03 ◼ ► Double the number and then type Java MX with the new number with an M at the end to increase the
00:13:08 ◼ ► memory allocation. The client will unload itself and then reload the engine, etc. I don't really,
00:13:15 ◼ ► but you might be able to skip that." - So he was right. I do still have the Java thing,
00:13:19 ◼ ► even though it looks different. It was dying frequently, as I mentioned, and I would have to
00:13:24 ◼ ► like relaunch it and whatever. I didn't know what the deal was because there was no indication that
00:13:27 ◼ ► what the problem was. This console thing, command option C, it's not even in a menu bar item,
00:13:32 ◼ ► as far as I can tell. So you have to know this and then it gives you this ugly little command line
00:13:46 ◼ ► And that leads me to my second follow-up item, which is an update about me and crash plan.
00:14:00 ◼ ► It hasn't crashed since, so thumbs up. And it's backing up, but for some reason it thinks it needs
00:14:05 ◼ ► to back up way more than I think it needs to back up. It doesn't think it needs to back up everything.
00:14:09 ◼ ► It's not like it forgot about my backup set. It knows that it mostly has stuff backed up,
00:14:12 ◼ ► but it's backing up like hundreds of gigabytes and I don't have hundreds of gigabytes that's new.
00:14:17 ◼ ► So it's confused about something. And the second thing is that the time estimates that were given
00:14:26 ◼ ► Regular people don't understand why can't the computer just tell me how long it's going to take.
00:14:29 ◼ ► It's because not only does the computer not know, nobody knows. No human knows either. It's not
00:14:35 ◼ ► predictable. If you do the naive thing and say, "Just look at the rate you've been uploading over
00:14:39 ◼ ► the last five minutes and assume that will continue and put a number up," you get ridiculous
00:14:42 ◼ ► numbers and it changes all the time. So I'm looking at crash plan updating and I'm letting it run for
00:14:46 ◼ ► a day or two. Sometimes it says, "We'll be done updating in 15 days." I'm like, "Well, that sucks,
00:14:54 ◼ ► but it's hundreds of gigabytes. May need to be finished." Then I'll come back and I'll say,
00:15:03 ◼ ► And then I'll come back and it'll say, "Two weeks." And it's like, "Well, what's the deal?"
00:15:11 ◼ ► It doesn't even have a thing where you can see the rate. You can work in the activity monitor to see
00:15:15 ◼ ► how fast it's uploading. But the point is it never dropped below two weeks or 10 days or whatever the
00:15:20 ◼ ► lowest number it ever has been. Frequently, it jumps up into the years. So that's my way of
00:15:24 ◼ ► telling how fast is it going? How long does it think this is going to take? I'm like, "Well,
00:15:28 ◼ ► this is no good. I don't like the crash plan. It seems to think it needs to upload more than I think
00:15:34 ◼ ► it needs to upload. And I don't like that it's uploading slowly and I don't like the rate is very
00:15:38 ◼ ► variable. So let me look at some alternatives." So one that somebody tweeted at me this week was
00:15:43 ◼ ► Spider Oak, which I'd heard of before and it's been around for a while. They had a sale or
00:15:47 ◼ ► something. It was like, "Get unlimited backup for an unlimited number of computers for life,
00:15:52 ◼ ► for a rate." And the rate was like $180 a year, which sounds like a lot until you realize you
00:15:58 ◼ ► can do all your computers and it's unlimited storage for all of them. So I'm like, "Well,
00:16:05 ◼ ► So I install Spider Oak. I don't have it back on my entire computer, but I just pointed it at my
00:16:11 ◼ ► photo library. And I say, "Go, start backing up. Let me see how you're going to do." And it spent
00:16:16 ◼ ► a day and a half just at the phase where it's like trying to find files that need to be backed up.
00:16:24 ◼ ► sorry, Spider Oak, but I'm glad I didn't pay $180 to try to get that good deal because I feel like
00:16:29 ◼ ► I just have too many files." And it was just taking too long. So I gave up on that. And then finally,
00:16:34 ◼ ► I don't even know if they're a sponsor of this episode, but I've been using Backblaze since
00:16:38 ◼ ► well before they were a sponsor and I use it on my computer all the time. This is, of course,
00:16:41 ◼ ► my wife's computer. I don't use Backblaze there because I want to back up the network drive from
00:16:46 ◼ ► it and CrashPlan does that, but CrashPlan was in the doghouse. So I said, "Let me try Backblaze."
00:16:50 ◼ ► So I put Backblaze on our computer. And one of the cool things about Backblaze that isn't mentioned
00:16:55 ◼ ► in the ad reads, but is a thing that exists is that you can manually control how fast it uploads,
00:17:02 ◼ ► basically, how many resources it uses. So by default, it just automatically throttles based
00:17:07 ◼ ► on your activity and stuff. But if you're in my situation and you say, "Look, no one's going to
00:17:12 ◼ ► be using this computer. We're all going to sleep." Just upload as fast as you possibly can. You have
00:17:17 ◼ ► a couple of settings. You have a slider for how fast you want to upload. You can disable all the
00:17:21 ◼ ► throttles. And then there's also a number of threads that you can pick. And the maximum is 20.
00:17:29 ◼ ► put it down to 20 threads and just let it run. And it has no problem saturating my upload pipe,
00:17:35 ◼ ► which is not that big. I don't have a very fast file. So I think mine is 50 megabits up, which is
00:17:41 ◼ ► a half or a third of the maximum file speeds off or whatever. But it's way more than any other
00:17:47 ◼ ► service was getting. And so I'm like, "Well, I think Backblaze wins here." So I ended up paying
00:17:51 ◼ ► for the business group thing for Backblaze. It's just a billing convenience. I don't think it's any
00:17:57 ◼ ► cheaper or more expensive than anything else. But it's like I already had an account at Backblaze.
00:18:00 ◼ ► So I just added my wife's computer to the account. And now I'm stuck thinking what I'm going to do
00:18:04 ◼ ► with my Synology. Of course, Backblaze will let you back up directly from the Synology to their
00:18:08 ◼ ► B2 storage. And I just have to do the math to see what that looks like. I still might end up
00:18:12 ◼ ► just having CrashPlan do my Synology. So basically running Backblaze for the computer and the attached
00:18:17 ◼ ► drives and then running CrashPlan for the Synology because the CrashPlan deal I have is like $2.50
00:18:23 ◼ ► a month or something. It's really cheap. And I've already paid for like a year of it. So anyway,
00:18:28 ◼ ► all this is to say that my backup stuff is a little bit in flux. But from my brief testing,
00:18:35 ◼ ► Backblaze is still the upload speed champ. And I paused it during the podcast. But as soon as
00:18:41 ◼ ► we're done with this, I'm just going to have it re-upload again. It claims it's going to upload
00:18:45 ◼ ► like three and a half terabytes per day. That seems optimistic to me. But it is way better
00:18:54 ◼ ► Yeah. Whenever I tried CrashPlan, which admittedly it's been a while, but whenever I tried CrashPlan,
00:19:00 ◼ ► it would always just slow down to a crawl as it did my initial upload. And it was never going
00:19:05 ◼ ► to complete. It was going to take years and just never complete. And I heard all the same tips that
00:19:09 ◼ ► people are yelling at you about Java limits and everything like that. And I just didn't care.
00:19:13 ◼ ► I tried a few of them. They didn't work. I'm like, "All right. I can't spend any more time on this."
00:19:16 ◼ ► So I've been using Backblaze for a while now. They're not sponsoring this episode. But they are
00:19:22 ◼ ► our sponsor frequently. So we should just close that as you did. But I was using them before they
00:19:27 ◼ ► were sponsored because this all happened back then. And boy, are they so much better at the
00:19:31 ◼ ► upload speeds and everything. It's just night and day different. The only reason I think to not use
00:19:37 ◼ ► Backblaze is if you want network drive backups. That's it. I can't think of any other advantage
00:19:48 ◼ ► And Backblaze is also picky about what it backups to. It refuses to backup the user directory and
00:19:53 ◼ ► stuff like that. You used to be able to override that, but now it's either much more difficult or
00:19:57 ◼ ► impossible. So there are reasons for my luck. Well, you mean the Unix user directory, like USR?
00:20:00 ◼ ► Yeah, USR. There's a whole bunch of directories that it just won't back up. I find that annoying
00:20:04 ◼ ► because my user local is the thing I want to back up because I compile all my software and put it
00:20:08 ◼ ► there. And the fact that it won't back up user local for me is kind of annoying. I used to
00:20:11 ◼ ► override it back when you could, and now you can't. So there are other reasons to look elsewhere. But
00:20:15 ◼ ► for what I'm doing in this case, which is basically backing up photos and plain files on my wife's
00:20:20 ◼ ► computer, it's fine. Yeah, I would be on Backblaze, would have been on Backblaze forever ago were it
00:20:27 ◼ ► not for me really wanting to back up my Synology. And maybe the right answer is to do what you're
00:20:32 ◼ ► saying, Jon, and double dip and pay both Backblaze and CrashPlan. Or you can use the B2 storage thing.
00:20:37 ◼ ► I don't quite know. It's probably some business model that makes this non-profitable. But like,
00:20:41 ◼ ► so Backblaze and CrashPlan and a bunch of other things will run on your NAS. You don't have to run
00:20:46 ◼ ► on a computer with the NAS match. It will run directly on your NAS. It's just that Backblaze
00:20:50 ◼ ► is a solution there is you have to pay them for the storage. So they have this B2 storage,
00:20:59 ◼ ► Yeah. And you have to pay them per byte for your storage, which is not like Backblaze on your
00:21:05 ◼ ► computer, which is as the tagline for the ad goes, unlimited on the product. You don't have to pay
00:21:10 ◼ ► for your storage. You just pay a flat amount a month and you can upload everything. I guess they
00:21:14 ◼ ► assume that servers and NASes can just have so much storage that it doesn't make sense financially.
00:21:20 ◼ ► But for me, there's not that much more. I'm backing up maybe two and a half terabytes on my NAS
00:21:27 ◼ ► and two and a half terabytes for my computer. So it's about the same. It's just that one of them,
00:21:30 ◼ ► because it's not a computer, will charge me to store that all the time. The other one won't.
00:21:35 ◼ ► So I kind of wish I had a... Financially, it's a better deal to do CrashPlan for the NAS. But I'm
00:21:42 ◼ ► going to do the math on Backblaze B2 and see if I can just stomach whatever's going to charge. And
00:21:51 ◼ ► **Matt Stauffer** I've actually been doing... I don't know if this helps at all for your needs.
00:21:55 ◼ ► Probably not. But I've actually been trying B2 using the Arc backup program, ARQ. It's a pretty
00:22:01 ◼ ► popular Mac backup app. Arc is cool because you can set tons of different storage services as your
00:22:08 ◼ ► endpoint for Arc. And Arc is just the backup client that runs on Mac OS. And it backs up to
00:22:16 ◼ ► this document or format in case they've got a business or whatever. But I wouldn't really be
00:22:19 ◼ ► too worried about that. And basically, it's a way for you to have a little more control over what
00:22:24 ◼ ► gets backed up. So if you wanted to do something like what Jon was saying earlier about how
00:22:28 ◼ ► Backblaze doesn't back up certain directories, if you wanted more control over it, you could use Arc
00:22:33 ◼ ► to back up to Backblaze B2 or Amazon S3. Or, although I wouldn't recommend this, Amazon Glacier
00:22:38 ◼ ► or all sorts of other things. Dropbox, I think, Google Drive, Amazon OneDrive, all this crazy
00:22:44 ◼ ► stuff. But I decided I was having my Backblaze client, I was running basically the same
00:22:50 ◼ ► installation of the Backblaze client for something like six or seven years. And it was starting to
00:22:54 ◼ ► get a little bit weird with memory usage. And their recommendation when this happens is usually
00:23:00 ◼ ► to kind of like just blow it away and start over. Or to blow away certain log files and start over.
00:23:04 ◼ ► And so whatever else, like the case was, I had this problem and I was going to start over. So I
00:23:09 ◼ ► figured, while I'm starting over, let me try Arc. Let me try that to B2. It is costing me a little
00:23:16 ◼ ► bit more because of how much I'm storing there, because I'm storing a lot compared to the flat
00:23:20 ◼ ► rate of the regular client. But it's kind of nice. It isn't that much more, I forget what it is, but
00:23:26 ◼ ► it's a small amount more plus the cost of Arc itself, which I think is like 30 or 40 bucks.
00:23:30 ◼ ► And then what's nice about it is you as a user, I believe you're licensed on any number of computers
00:23:37 ◼ ► you own for Arc. You know, it's just per user licensing instead of per computer licensing. So I
00:23:43 ◼ ► run Arc on my desktop and on my laptop. And Backblaze has a feature where you can log into
00:23:50 ◼ ► their web app and start a restore for any of your computers onto any device you're on. So if you
00:23:55 ◼ ► like forget a file on your laptop or something, or forget a file at home while you're traveling,
00:23:59 ◼ ► you can go fetch it. Well, Arc, if this is a thing that happens to you a lot, Arc makes it even
00:24:04 ◼ ► faster and easier because it's doing all that with this native interface. Like you do all that from
00:24:08 ◼ ► your Mac with this little tree view thing. And it's not incredibly fast to restore because it has to
00:24:14 ◼ ► download a bunch of catalog files before it does. But it is really nice to have all that in this one
00:24:20 ◼ ► app that you can run on all your computers really. So on my laptop, I run Arc and I can browse my
00:24:25 ◼ ► desktop's files and folders right there. On my desktop, I can do the same thing to the laptop,
00:24:30 ◼ ► vice versa. So it's actually a pretty nice setup. Again, it is more expensive if you're backing up
00:24:36 ◼ ► more than probably about a terabyte or so. But it's kind of fun as an option. I'm not sure I'd
00:24:42 ◼ ► recommend it to everybody, but if you're a nerd and you like that kind of control, Arc plus B2
00:24:48 ◼ ► is a pretty good combo. - Yeah, my crash plan account last I looked is backing up something
00:24:54 ◼ ► like seven and a half terabytes. Now, to be clear, most of that is stuff on the Synology and a
00:24:59 ◼ ► tremendous portion of that is media, a lot of which, almost all of which I could probably
00:25:03 ◼ ► recreate. But the whole idea of my backup solution is I don't want to have to be, you know,
00:25:08 ◼ ► not discreet, but selective, I guess a better word for it, about what I'm backing up. And so
00:25:14 ◼ ► to do that on B2 is like 40 bucks a month, where I'm paying crash plan like 60 bucks a year or
00:25:22 ◼ ► something like that. And so if I was an adult who actually did the right thing, I would move to
00:25:29 ◼ ► PackBlaze, 'cause I have no doubt that it is better in every measurable way except being more
00:25:32 ◼ ► expensive, which makes sense because it's better. So I don't know, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
00:25:39 ◼ ► - We are sponsored this week by Hover, domain names for whatever you're passionate about.
00:25:43 ◼ ► Go to hover.com/ATP to learn more and get 10% off your first purchase. Building your online
00:25:49 ◼ ► brand has never been more important. And you don't own your online brand if it's only on
00:25:55 ◼ ► other people's services, other people's sites, other people's domains. Show the world who you
00:26:01 ◼ ► are and what you're passionate about without tying it to whatever publishing platform or
00:26:06 ◼ ► social network is popular this year. Because that stuff changes over time. My first email address
00:26:12 ◼ ► was at juno.com. Do you remember that? Do you even know what that was? Most people don't. My first
00:26:17 ◼ ► website was at geocities.com and then it was some big long path name after that. Both of those seemed
00:26:23 ◼ ► as huge and invincible at the time as today's major social networks and email providers. But
00:26:29 ◼ ► this is the tech business, things change. So the best thing you can do to keep your email address,
00:26:35 ◼ ► your website and your identity timeless and future proof is to host that all at your own domain name.
00:26:41 ◼ ► And Hover is the best place to buy, find and manage domain names. They have all the different
00:26:47 ◼ ► domain extensions you can think of from the classics like the dot com all the way to the
00:26:52 ◼ ► new kind of fun ones like dot plumbing, dot diamonds. There's no tricks, there's no shady
00:26:56 ◼ ► upsells and no scammy add ons with Hover. They include everything you need for a reasonable
00:27:01 ◼ ► price. They even have free who is privacy on all their plans. Hover Connect also lets you set up
00:27:06 ◼ ► popular web hosts on your domain with a few simple clicks so it's super easy to set up even if you're
00:27:10 ◼ ► a novice. And they also offer full advanced DNS controls if you're an expert and you need that.
00:27:16 ◼ ► If you need any help with any of this, Hover's customer support is top notch. Of course they
00:27:21 ◼ ► have online support, they also have phone support. If you need to talk to a real human being, you can
00:27:25 ◼ ► just call them and a real human picks up and they are ready and able to help you. I manage most of
00:27:29 ◼ ► my domains now at Hover and it is a breeze. You want your domain registrar to be really easy to
00:27:34 ◼ ► use and to be really well supported when you need it and that's what Hover does for me. So visit
00:27:39 ◼ ► Hover.com/ATP to learn more and get 10% off your first purchase. Hover, get a domain name for
00:27:46 ◼ ► whatever you are passionate about. I've looked up what it meant to be part of a complete breakfast.
00:27:57 ◼ ► So tell me more. So you know this is from our pre-show here we were talking about how like I
00:28:02 ◼ ► was asking about how like the cereal commercials for breakfast cereal in like the 80s and 90s would
00:28:06 ◼ ► always advertise cereal as being part of this complete breakfast and it would show a picture
00:28:11 ◼ ► of the cereal next to like a bowl of fruit and some yogurt and some milk and some juice and
00:28:18 ◼ ► all this stuff and I don't think anybody has ever actually eaten that breakfast before except maybe
00:28:23 ◼ ► John on British Airways but for the most part they wouldn't include cereal there. Like no one has ever
00:28:30 ◼ ► eaten the complete breakfast that cereal was always advertised as being a part of. Everyone I
00:28:35 ◼ ► know including everyone in my family just ate the cereal and the milk that was their complete
00:28:40 ◼ ► breakfast. So apparently this was kind of a coordinated advertising thing between like Post
00:28:46 ◼ ► and Kellogg back you know in like the 70s or so where and please don't write it because it doesn't
00:28:54 ◼ ► matter but apparently it was because like cereal being mostly you know regular carbs plus a lot of
00:29:02 ◼ ► sugar and very little any other nutrition is part of what your body needs in the sense that your
00:29:09 ◼ ► body needs carbs fats and proteins and so they're and what they're really saying is being part of
00:29:15 ◼ ► this complete breakfast is that cereal alone is not giving you everything you need. So it was kind
00:29:20 ◼ ► of a way to cover their butts and say you should be eating other things not just cereal. The funny
00:29:26 ◼ ► part about this though is if you look at the pictures of like you know screenshots and the
00:29:30 ◼ ► commercials and everything of what they would advertise as being the complete breakfast it
00:29:34 ◼ ► would be so much healthier for you and would lose no nutritional value if you took the cereal out of
00:29:40 ◼ ► it and just ate the rest of the stuff in the picture. To be fair to cereal they did fortify
00:29:45 ◼ ► it with vitamins so you're not just getting sugar and minerals. Yeah they also did that to the milk
00:29:51 ◼ ► though so you didn't need it and if you eat everything else in the picture you're getting
00:29:53 ◼ ► that. I know well they're just trying to prevent your kids from getting scurvy. That's not my word.
00:29:59 ◼ ► Moving on. All right uh John to continue the John Syracuse hour tell me about your photo book PDFs
00:30:06 ◼ ► and I actually meant to ask you then I forgot about it did you already make your photo book
00:30:10 ◼ ► from last week or no? No I didn't the 2008 book just arrived when I got back I haven't done the
00:30:16 ◼ ► 2018 I still have to do all that I think they moved the date back from September 1st to September
00:30:20 ◼ ► 30th every time you click on a on a book in the sidebar it pops up a dialogue like every time it
00:30:25 ◼ ► pops up to say just so you know blah blah blah I think it's September 30th based on how many times
00:30:29 ◼ ► I've seen that dialogue but anyway I gotta make those um oh and I think I'm basically full up on
00:30:33 ◼ ► photos now like I'm down to double digit gigabytes of free space on my wife's uh hard drive and I've
00:30:40 ◼ ► oh my I've spent a lot of time in like uh Disc Inventory X/10 or Grand Perspective or Daisy
00:30:48 ◼ ► Disc or all those things that show you where your space is used and I've really I've wrung every
00:30:56 ◼ ► uh I couldn't bring myself to buy a big disc and I wasn't ready to buy a new iMac because I think
00:31:00 ◼ ► they're going to come up with the 5Ks with T2 so I don't want to buy it for that so I just bought
00:31:05 ◼ ► a one terabyte drive because my photo library is 600 gigs almost exactly so one terabyte drive
00:31:12 ◼ ► should give me enough breathing room to get to uh the the new iMac for her um and that of course
00:31:18 ◼ ► will be direct attached so backblaze will back that up so I'm fine so anyway I'm doing that um
00:31:22 ◼ ► so about the photobook pdf someone mentioned this couple shows back uh that I didn't know if you and
00:31:27 ◼ ► I've been thinking about this I've got these photobooks that I made and yes they're printed
00:31:30 ◼ ► and they're on the shelf when we look through them as a family and they're fun their paper and
00:31:33 ◼ ► everything but like what if my house burns down or floods or I lose those books in some way
00:31:37 ◼ ► I put a lot of time into them like selecting the pictures and deciding how they're going to be
00:31:42 ◼ ► cropped and doing like the layouts like pictures going pairs on pages that face each other that
00:31:46 ◼ ► you know look cute and you know it's it's an art to doing it and I spent like a really long time
00:31:51 ◼ ► doing this for all these books cumulatively I didn't want to lose that right and I'm like well
00:31:54 ◼ ► what if when Apple gets rid of the built-in feature like all my books go away too how do I
00:32:00 ◼ ► how do I preserve this in some way apparently in photos and Apple's photos app you can select a
00:32:05 ◼ ► book and basically print it to pdf and it doesn't it's cool it doesn't really like for example the
00:32:11 ◼ ► cover you have a front cover back cover and then flaps like the dust jacket flaps when you do the
00:32:16 ◼ ► pdf the picture on the dust jacket flap just becomes like a regular you know like page with
00:32:23 ◼ ► just a picture floating in the middle of it so it's not exactly how you can't just take that
00:32:27 ◼ ► pdf and print it and get the book back but it will do the pages in the order they're in with
00:32:32 ◼ ► the pictures cropped the way they are I think at full res as far as I can tell like they're big
00:32:37 ◼ ► pdfs so I printed all mine to pdf and you know save them into a little folder and that make at
00:32:45 ◼ ► least lets me know that like if I lose my books I'll at least know which pictures I use how they
00:32:49 ◼ ► were cropped and you know if I never even wanted to print them again I could just look through the
00:32:52 ◼ ► pdf so that was a nice thing to know and so if Apple does the wrong thing and like deletes all
00:32:58 ◼ ► my books after they get rid of the built-in feature at least I'll have them backed up somewhere
00:33:01 ◼ ► and have you seen in the in the news over the last couple of weeks there were a couple articles I
00:33:05 ◼ ► think on nine to five that are that have basically outed the company that was printing these books
00:33:09 ◼ ► for Apple all this time and then also a I think a second company that wasn't the ones printing the
00:33:14 ◼ ► books for Apple but has made plugins for photos app that will mimic the exact same layouts have
00:33:21 ◼ ► you looked at those yep I had all that information back from like three shows ago like the supposed
00:33:26 ◼ ► one that printed their books I I hope like that's going to be my first go-to is the one that was
00:33:32 ◼ ► actually printing their books because I assume that they will literally print like the same
00:33:36 ◼ ► exact product it'll be exactly the same I applaud the company saying we as a business opportunity
00:33:40 ◼ ► here let's mimic those books let's give you offer you the same size of whatever but they're not
00:33:44 ◼ ► going to be exactly the same like they'll do as good as they can but they're not going to be
00:33:46 ◼ ► exactly the same so I have no idea if the quality is going to be as good I have no idea if they're
00:33:49 ◼ ► going to be exactly the same size down to the millimeter I have no idea if they're going to use
00:33:53 ◼ ► exactly the same binding technology so definitely going with what is supposedly the contractor that
00:33:59 ◼ ► that Apple's been using but hopefully my plan is to print every single book I ever want to print and
00:34:04 ◼ ► then the only time I'll have to pick one of those vendors is next year next summer well good luck
00:34:09 ◼ ► with that I hope it works out anonymous writes in to tell us AMD's top-end processors will be
00:34:14 ◼ ► manufactured in TSMC's seven nanometer process node as seen at the en and tech link that will
00:34:21 ◼ ► put in the show notes this is pretty exciting this is a pretty exciting time for AMD since they can
00:34:25 ◼ ► kind of compete with Intel since they finally have access to a competitive process node they won't be
00:34:30 ◼ ► competitive for global foundries and they know that but they they would prefer to use global foundries
00:34:34 ◼ ► since it would be their fab but they can't and shouldn't for reasons in terms of timeline of
00:34:39 ◼ ► TSMC seven nanometer equivalent node as far as I can tell TSMC is in lead closely followed by
00:34:44 ◼ ► Samsung global foundry slightly behind and Intel maybe even behind that which is kind of unknown
00:34:49 ◼ ► since it's hard to tell with all the delays of Intel 10 nanometer yeah that's something we
00:34:54 ◼ ► didn't talk about you know how about Intel I'd be falling behind and Apple's able to manufacture its
00:34:58 ◼ ► phone chips at TSMC seven nanometer well AMD now gets to leave Intel too because even though they're
00:35:04 ◼ ► fab I mean they're you know they're global foundries they're fab AMD used to fab its own
00:35:08 ◼ ► chips and it split the company into the fab part and the other part and so the fab part is called
00:35:15 ◼ ► global foundries and it's not at seven nanometers so but AMD doesn't have to use its ex-fab like
00:35:20 ◼ ► they're independent companies now so AMD has chosen not to use global foundries and and now
00:35:25 ◼ ► has the freedom to use whoever has the best fab and is offering to do it so you know seven nanometer
00:35:32 ◼ ► Xeon like Ryzen based chips would be attractive to Apple in theory if Apple ever decided to go that
00:35:38 ◼ ► route do you think Ryzen has a chance like do you think or just AMD chips in general do you think
00:35:44 ◼ ► that a reasonable next step for Apple instead of going to ARM necessarily could they go to AMD
00:35:52 ◼ ► chips are they competitive enough yeah they're totally competitive enough and especially not just
00:35:56 ◼ ► like competitive enough the way they are like because Intel chips are better at this point
00:36:00 ◼ ► if Apple went with them the infusion of money right into into AMD for those chips because Apple
00:36:06 ◼ ► is a good customer they'll buy your most expensive stuff right and they don't they can absorb some
00:36:11 ◼ ► kind of a premium and Apple tends to drive its manufacturers to make like what what it wants and
00:36:16 ◼ ► end up being powerful stuff I think would work out just fine the question is does Apple want to keep
00:36:20 ◼ ► going down that route or they just because that still doesn't give them the kind of control they
00:36:24 ◼ ► would get even if they made their own ARM chips let alone like their own you know other architecture
00:36:28 ◼ ► chip so it is it's kind of like saying Intel is not doing the job it's like when they switch to
00:36:32 ◼ ► PowerPC like oh PowerPC IBM's not doing the job for us and Motorola is not making anything we want
00:36:38 ◼ ► so let's switch to Intel you go to the better horse like oh Intel is a big improvement but you
00:36:43 ◼ ► don't really get much more control you're just switching to a different vendor Apple doing ARM
00:36:47 ◼ ► that chips that it makes itself that's more control so Ryzen or an AMD thing is 100% viable I think
00:36:55 ◼ ► you know if they decide to go that direction and really commit to it but it doesn't give them the
00:36:59 ◼ ► control that we all think they crave in this realm and speaking of all of these fabs the Intel Core
00:37:07 ◼ ► i9 9900k great model name apparently this relates to Digital Foundry because of a YouTube video tell
00:37:15 ◼ ► me about this Digital Foundry is the YouTube channel I watch it it's a gaming related thing
00:37:18 ◼ ► they talk about like what the PS5 is going to be like and they analyze video games but anyway
00:37:22 ◼ ► they're also talking they do PC gaming too so they're talking about what's Intel's next line
00:37:25 ◼ ► of chips we talked about this last show that they were going to go 14 nanometers still right but you
00:37:30 ◼ ► know they just went to six core they're going to go to eight core and the i9 will be eight core
00:37:34 ◼ ► with hyper threading and the i7 will be eight core without hyper threading and it's just like let's
00:37:37 ◼ ► just keep adding cores on 14 nanometers how they how are they going to do that how can they keep
00:37:41 ◼ ► adding cores like these are desktop chips we're talking about not laptop stuff right so there is
00:37:45 ◼ ► a much bigger budget for power but at a certain point it becomes a little bit ridiculous and the
00:37:49 ◼ ► one detail this is i think it's all like informed speculation like these are unofficial announcements
00:37:54 ◼ ► from Intel and plans could change yada yada but like you know this is an open secret of what
00:37:58 ◼ ► they're doing uh the i9 apparently will have soldered heat spreader like it won't be like you
00:38:04 ◼ ► buy the chip and you put thermal paste on and you shove a heat spreader on you put a heat sink on top
00:38:08 ◼ ► of it they will solder it on like it'll be metal to metal soldered connection for the heat pipe
00:38:13 ◼ ► from Intel now it doesn't mean Apple's going to use those or maybe Apple because they always have
00:38:17 ◼ ► custom cooling solutions and stuff like that but it just goes to show the lengths that Intel is
00:38:21 ◼ ► willing to go to to say can we actually cool a chip on 14 nanometers with eight cores and
00:38:26 ◼ ► hyper threading and all the stuff you know it you know what can we do to make it so that is more
00:38:32 ◼ ► viable in normal size desktop pc cases you know they're pulling out all the stops let's solder the
00:38:37 ◼ ► heat spreader on get rid of the thermal paste like nothing is a better contact than metal to metal you
00:38:41 ◼ ► know uh and i think it would be great for Apple to use one of those in a Mac Pro in 2019 speaking of
00:38:48 ◼ ► that like so i i have my new 13 inch MacBook Pro and i i don't know if i've used it enough to really
00:38:54 ◼ ► have a solid opinion on it yet but um although so far i will say it's generally positive but one
00:38:59 ◼ ► thing i i have noticed which i told you guys in slack earlier is that it really is noticeably warm
00:39:06 ◼ ► like this is this is a generation of computers i would say probably every 2018 and probably 2019
00:39:13 ◼ ► maybe even 2020 computer um it's probably gonna be you know kind of warmer than we expect because
00:39:21 ◼ ► you know as we mentioned Intel is shoving more cores into these chips without shrinking the
00:39:24 ◼ ► process and so it's gonna be you know they're really you know they're really kind of pushing
00:39:28 ◼ ► thermal boundaries here and while my laptop has no signs of like throttling or anything else
00:39:36 ◼ ► you know it seems able to maintain its uh you know its thermal uh load you know when necessary
00:39:42 ◼ ► but it does run noticeably warm like it's pretty warm most of the time that it's in use if i
00:39:49 ◼ ► disabled turbo boost that helps a lot but it still runs warm and i i have a feeling this will apply
00:39:54 ◼ ► to every computer in this generation and the next one um so it's just one thing to consider if you
00:40:00 ◼ ► if you're sensitive to that uh maybe skip this generation and the next couple good luck yeah
00:40:07 ◼ ► oh man john tell me what whimsy means this is uh somewhat evident during the podcast but very
00:40:14 ◼ ► evident after as we got feedback of people uh talking about whether apple has or hasn't lost
00:40:19 ◼ ► its whimsy and the relative values of whimsies people don't know what whimsy is that's that's
00:40:23 ◼ ► a big problem lots of people were writing in for things that they liked like here is a quality of
00:40:29 ◼ ► an apple product that i like and just because you like it doesn't mean it's whimsical like uh to
00:40:35 ◼ ► give an example the unibody on laptops like it makes them makes them feel much more solid and
00:40:40 ◼ ► we all agree that it's better than when they were just like connecting together like a top and a
00:40:43 ◼ ► bottom and sides and everything right not whimsical it's good it's a good it makes their products like
00:40:49 ◼ ► you know high quality and attractive and we like it and we think it's great product design but it
00:40:53 ◼ ► is not whimsical so i would encourage people to look up the word whimsy in your dictionary of
00:40:59 ◼ ► choice and realize that it has to be playful quaint fanciful and perhaps have a humor value
00:41:05 ◼ ► that's that's whimsy that's when things are whimsical it's not just a good thing about a
00:41:10 ◼ ► product all right and then i have a little bit of neutral related follow-up i had lamented on
00:41:17 ◼ ► the video and i think we discussed on the podcast that the golf r i could swear demiro says gulf by
00:41:24 ◼ ► the way but anyway the gulf r uh has a kick down switch so if you recall you push the gas pedal
00:41:30 ◼ ► past where it feels like it can't go any further and then there's a little switch that flips
00:41:34 ◼ ► and to me i didn't understand the point because it was a manual transmission car and i got a lot
00:41:39 ◼ ► of feedback from a lot of people all saying mostly the same stuff but eric scala summarized it the
00:41:43 ◼ ► best he writes the switch does have a function too to be accurate first the adaptive cruise control
00:41:49 ◼ ► can be switched off and instead the car will limit the speed to the speed you set you can push the
00:41:54 ◼ ► gas pedal as much as you want the car will not go above the speed you set that is until you press
00:41:58 ◼ ► the kick down switch so that's like an override saying no really i gotta go also when you switch
00:42:03 ◼ ► the car into eco mode the throttle will respond much slower to your input it will only accept
00:42:07 ◼ ► around 40 maximum input everything beyond that it will just ignore that is until you guessed it you
00:42:11 ◼ ► press the kick the kick down switch those both make sense i had no idea either of those were the case
00:42:17 ◼ ► so that was useful i will collect my credit for doubting your story the the strip was not chip the
00:42:23 ◼ ► the switch was non-functional remember when i asked you are you sure did you check the owner's
00:42:26 ◼ ► manual you told me i didn't you told me you had glanced at the owner's manual okay there you go
00:42:31 ◼ ► i guarantee this is in the owner's manual i felt that's not hard to believe that the switch did
00:42:35 ◼ ► nothing so now now you know read the whole owner's manual from cover to cover you got the car for a
00:42:38 ◼ ► week yeah i'll get right on that you're supposed to be reading the manuals for marco now who's
00:42:43 ◼ ► going to read the manuals for you this is like a chain i'm the only person left to read the manual
00:42:50 ◼ ► i'll read the manuals for marco when i'm going to be traveling in that car at extraordinary rates of
00:42:56 ◼ ► speeds on the autobahn you're going to help them find the battery so we can jump it exactly um
00:43:01 ◼ ► and then the other question i got a lot which is reasonable is good the other question i got a lot
00:43:07 ◼ ► that was a deep cut is why not just get a gti and chip it and or by that i mean you'll get get a box
00:43:14 ◼ ► that will let you reprogram the the the way the computer the onboard computer works and from what
00:43:20 ◼ ► i understand you can get a box that will reprogram the onboard computer that will give you if not
00:43:26 ◼ ► equal to gulf are uh horsepower and torque perhaps even better than the gulf are horsepower and torque
00:43:33 ◼ ► ratings and the reason i don't want to do that is because i did that to the bmw and i got moderate
00:43:40 ◼ ► gains and for all i know that could have been why the engine torpedoed itself twice so i know
00:43:45 ◼ ► volkswagen is not bmw i know i wouldn't put that on the record i i know that cause this is not
00:43:51 ◼ ► causation but it just i no thank you no thank you if it was meant to be 300 plus horsepower then the
00:43:57 ◼ ► factory would make it 300 plus horsepower i am good thank you very much it's a reasonable suggestion
00:44:02 ◼ ► if you're braver than i i fully encourage you to try it out but i am not that brave anymore
00:44:08 ◼ ► so thank you but no thank you we are sponsored this week by betterment investing made better
00:44:14 ◼ ► betterment is the largest independent online financial advisor designed to help improve
00:44:19 ◼ ► customers long-term returns and lower your taxes for retirement planning building wealth and other
00:44:29 ◼ ► deliver them to more than 300 000 customers all of this with low fees at betterment hidden costs
00:44:36 ◼ ► are nowhere to be found no matter who you are or how much money you invest you get everything for
00:44:41 ◼ ► one low transparent management fee they have a 0.25 annual fee on their base plan and that includes
00:44:48 ◼ ► unlimited messaging access to their team of licensed financial experts for more complex
00:44:53 ◼ ► situations betterment premium gives you unlimited phone call access to their team of certified
00:44:58 ◼ ► financial planners for only 0.4 annually these are low transparent fees compared to traditional
00:45:05 ◼ ► services and betterment is a fiduciary this means that they don't get commissions for recommending
00:45:11 ◼ ► certain funds and they don't have any funds of their own they do what they believe is right for
00:45:16 ◼ ► you and it's all in your best interest and betterment's tools make investing easier for you
00:45:22 ◼ ► they believe investing shouldn't be a confusing or frustrating experience they've built technology
00:45:27 ◼ ► to make managing your wealth an easy and enjoyable experience investing involves risk listeners can
00:45:54 ◼ ► the overcast podcast directory and then apple said you know what marco's right let's do that too and
00:45:59 ◼ ► then facebook and youtube said you know what apple and marco are right let's do that too and it was a
00:46:04 ◼ ► trickle effect from there as a as an opening statement i would like to request from marco on
00:46:08 ◼ ► this topic because it will lead into it eventually i think this is a good opportunity to have like a
00:46:12 ◼ ► 101 segment and the 101 i think mark should do is explaining what a podcast is because to explain
00:46:17 ◼ ► the nuances of this this issue it requires you to know what a podcast is and i think a lot of people
00:46:23 ◼ ► kind of like whimsy don't actually know what a podcast is so can you explain to us and like
00:46:27 ◼ ► boring 101 technical terms literally what a podcast is and then like how how the parts work
00:46:32 ◼ ► and how they fit together who the players are which will then explain what you're going to say
00:46:35 ◼ ► that you did that's actually a really good idea yeah because i you know it doesn't work the way
00:46:41 ◼ ► almost anything else in the internet works and and so it is kind of helpful to know this and and i
00:46:45 ◼ ► get all sorts of um questions or or arguments that suggest people don't understand this very well and
00:46:52 ◼ ► i can't blame them because it isn't explained it very well so here i am going to try to explain it
00:46:56 ◼ ► probably poorly but here we go so to publish a podcast you need audio files you put those audio
00:47:04 ◼ ► files on a server somewhere and then you need some way for people to find them and for podcast
00:47:10 ◼ ► players to know when there's a new episode and so the way that you publish audio files in a useful
00:47:15 ◼ ► way that makes it into a podcast is you create a special RSS feed an RSS feed oh geez do i have to
00:47:22 ◼ ► explain this to you so keep on digging 101 what the heck is an RSS feed an RSS feed is a document
00:47:30 ◼ ► that is in a special version of markup language called XML it's kind of like HTML but a little
00:47:36 ◼ ► more strict a lot more strict and anyway so it's an RSS feed is a document that in a structured
00:47:43 ◼ ► standardized way lists items in a feed format so it could be articles it could be posts and if you
00:47:53 ◼ ► have a special tag in those posts called an enclosure tag that points to the url of an audio
00:48:05 ◼ ► yourself and there there are a few exceptions to this certain podcast platforms kind of take this
00:48:11 ◼ ► over for you and or copy your file and reserve it but for the most part most players out there
00:48:17 ◼ ► including by far the biggest one which is apple's podcast app which has over 60 market share and it's
00:48:21 ◼ ► by far the biggest one like the next one after that has something like you know five percent
00:48:26 ◼ ► market share so a podcast app doesn't like re-host your podcast on its own servers it doesn't
00:48:35 ◼ ► maintain its own content the way like youtube does like youtube videos are all hosted on youtube
00:48:40 ◼ ► so youtube has way more control and way more liability over what is hosted on youtube than
00:48:45 ◼ ► a podcast player does podcast players simply fetch those RSS feeds from each podcast server
00:48:54 ◼ ► and then any new episodes they find that they didn't already know about they download the
00:48:59 ◼ ► pointed to audio file also from the publisher's server and then you can play it you know the user
00:49:07 ◼ ► can play it in the app so like apple's podcast app does not host the files apple does not host
00:49:15 ◼ ► the files when a new episode is published it doesn't even go through apple like the apple
00:49:21 ◼ ► maintains the directory that looks for the new files so it can like make a list of them for
00:49:24 ◼ ► search and stuff but it doesn't actually ever host the file the file never even passes through apple
00:49:30 ◼ ► the way the podcast app therefore works is kind of in some ways kind of like a web browser in the
00:49:37 ◼ ► sense that it's just pulling something from you from a url it's pulling a special rss feed from
00:49:42 ◼ ► a url that's structured in a special way to contain audio files and that's about it and so
00:49:48 ◼ ► you can have that pull from any url anywhere where this gets complicated and where this where the
00:49:55 ◼ ► news this week comes in is the user experience of a podcast app is usually not people entering URLs
00:50:04 ◼ ► of all the feeds they want you can do that you can go to the website of the podcast you want to
00:50:08 ◼ ► listen to you can find somewhere there there's going to be a link to their rss feed and you can
00:50:13 ◼ ► copy that link and you can paste that url into the add url box in almost any podcast app and you can
00:50:18 ◼ ► listen that way that's fine but the way most people do it is they just use use some built-in
00:50:24 ◼ ► search function of the podcast and they search a directory of podcasts by far the biggest directory
00:50:30 ◼ ► out there is apple's podcast directory the way you get into apple's podcast directory is you go to
00:50:38 ◼ ► apple and you submit your feed for consideration and they make sure that it doesn't break any
00:50:44 ◼ ► obvious you know rules like that it's not illegal or that it's not um you know obscene or spam or i
00:50:51 ◼ ► believe they don't allow porn or other adult content apple has people review those and then
00:50:56 ◼ ► they say okay this is okay to be in our directory and they add us the directory they're still not
00:51:00 ◼ ► actually hosting the file but they're maintaining a search index so that way when people go to their
00:51:04 ◼ ► app they don't have to enter the url of every rss feed they can just type in you know this american
00:51:10 ◼ ► life and apple you know uses their search engine and say okay here this is the url for the show
00:51:15 ◼ ► you just asked for here it is and you never have to see it as the user it just gets added to your
00:51:19 ◼ ► podcast app and so it seems kind of like you're you you're using something that apple's in full
00:51:25 ◼ ► control over it seems like you're searching apple podcasts for podcasts that are in apple podcasts
00:51:30 ◼ ► and playing them and apple podcast is therefore you know responsible for everything in it
00:51:37 ◼ ► closer to a web browser with the search engine in the sense that you know a web browser can navigate
00:51:43 ◼ ► to any url just like a podcast app could play any urls podcast feed but in a web browser you know
00:51:49 ◼ ► you often will use search instead of entering a url directly because it's just more convenient or
00:51:53 ◼ ► it's easier to find things or whatever else oh and i should clarify one other thing that is important
00:52:05 ◼ ► directory i i have like you know stuff on my server that i know about but i don't have any
00:52:10 ◼ ► way for people to submit podcasts to me and i don't have any any like content review of what
00:52:17 ◼ ► gets into overcast because i'm just one person i don't have the resources apple has a whole staff
00:52:23 ◼ ► around the world because you need to do things like you need to understand other languages to
00:52:27 ◼ ► know like is content in other languages obscene or illegal or anything like there's a huge this
00:52:32 ◼ ► takes a huge amount of people to actually you know run this kind of directory responsibly
00:52:37 ◼ ► and there's a reason you know in overcast this is the reason why i have no areas in overcast where
00:52:44 ◼ ► users can enter text visible to other users that's why there's no user reviews of podcast there's no
00:52:51 ◼ ► star ratings there's no comments the reason why is because when you have any of those things in your
00:52:57 ◼ ► app you become responsible for content policing those things and for dealing with harassment and
00:53:04 ◼ ► hate speech and illegal content being posted to it dealing with disputes dealing with complaints
00:53:09 ◼ ► dealing with copyright issues like if you are allowing users to enter content in your in your
00:53:15 ◼ ► platform you're going to have all those problems land in your lap eventually and so i don't want
00:53:19 ◼ ► anything to do with that so i don't have any text input you know directory things no reviews
00:53:24 ◼ ► anything like that and also i outsource my content decisions of what should show up in my search
00:53:31 ◼ ► engine to apple's itunes podcast directory because they have that staff reviewing things because they
00:53:38 ◼ ► have way more resources than i do because they maintain the big directory and also just so that
00:53:43 ◼ ► podcasters don't have to submit their podcast to overcast to be playable in overcast all they have
00:53:47 ◼ ► to do is submit them to apple directory because they're already going to do because that's the
00:53:51 ◼ ► biggest player so that everyone's going to do that and then they just become playable in overcast
00:53:55 ◼ ► when i search apple's podcast directory next for what you know whatever term people are looking for
00:53:59 ◼ ► so anyway so my overcast mechanism for what i show in search and what i don't show in search
00:54:07 ◼ ► is basically do i know this podcast to have an itunes id if i if a podcast has an itunes id that
00:54:15 ◼ ► i know about it will show up in overcast search if it doesn't it won't and there are a couple of
00:54:21 ◼ ► exceptions itunes id or not i will not show a podcast that has the itunes block attribute set
00:54:27 ◼ ► which is a custom tag you can you can have in your rss feed i also won't show anything in search that
00:54:33 ◼ ► has an http basic auth username and password in its url because a lot of protected feeds and
00:54:38 ◼ ► private feeds and passworded feeds use this mechanism i also won't show things that are like
00:54:45 ◼ ► kind of like the like urls that use big long hashes at the end that are that are meant to
00:54:48 ◼ ► be single user private urls things like patreon private urls and slate plus private private things
00:54:54 ◼ ► that they don't use basic auth passwords but the idea is something to be private so i have basically
00:55:00 ◼ ► this you know this list of conditions that like even if something has an itunes id and and would
00:55:05 ◼ ► otherwise show up in search if it appears to be a private feed or if the feed appears to want to be
00:55:10 ◼ ► blocked from search i don't show it but normally otherwise it will show up with apple search like
00:55:18 ◼ ► if it shows up in apple search it will show up in my search because i want apple to be the one
00:55:22 ◼ ► enforcing these content rules the other side of this i know this is long bear with me i have to
00:55:30 ◼ ► enforce these content rules to some level because to some level i is the app owner like if stuff is
00:55:36 ◼ ► illegal like if somebody's publishing something that's illegal and you can play it in my app
00:55:41 ◼ ► legally i'm probably not at fault there because of the way the stretch rate thing works
00:55:47 ◼ ► but it certainly could become my problem even if it isn't my fault and so i don't want to i don't
00:55:52 ◼ ► want to deal with that like i don't have the resources to police everything and deal with that
00:55:56 ◼ ► so i rely on apple enforcing these guidelines that also that also keeps spam out of the directory
00:56:03 ◼ ► that's why like when you search for popular shows the reason why you don't get a whole bunch of
00:56:09 ◼ ► spam with people trying to squat on those names is because apple is doing spam filtering and so like
00:56:15 ◼ ► some degree of filtering is necessary here it also you know the apple deals with copyright issues like
00:56:21 ◼ ► somebody can't just take this show put it up you know call it something like you know accidental
00:56:26 ◼ ► tech padcast and with a typo in it somewhere and copy all of our files and make a separate feed and
00:56:32 ◼ ► steal our you know downloads whatever like they can't do that because apple maintains this and
00:56:36 ◼ ► people complain to apple and get it taken down so anyway some degree of human intervention human
00:56:42 ◼ ► curation of this directory has always been present and it's it's necessary for a good experience and
00:56:49 ◼ ► for good legal and practical realities so what happened last week is the alex jones show um there
00:56:57 ◼ ► i basically what happened is it crossed a whole bunch of lines of like things that you know it
00:57:02 ◼ ► i mean look the guy's always been a tremendous jerk in a lot of ways and incredibly damaging
00:57:07 ◼ ► but it crossed a lot of lines that went from you know simply being a bad person to like actionable
00:57:16 ◼ ► problems like things like hate speech and and and you know inciting violence and you know things of
00:57:20 ◼ ► that nature that like that are against apple's terms for what they allow in their podcast directory
00:57:24 ◼ ► and are in many jurisdictions are actually illegal and so a listener uh emailed me saying hey
00:57:31 ◼ ► i'm leaving your app because you host this content and in you know it's horrible i looked and i'm
00:57:37 ◼ ► like you know this this should not be allowed like this is clearly in violation of apple's own
00:57:43 ◼ ► content guidelines and they were already at that point they were already having problems with
00:57:47 ◼ ► facebook and youtube because they were violating their guidelines too and so i do have a mechanism
00:57:55 ◼ ► in overcast that i can override a feed that would otherwise show up and i can say this feed should
00:58:02 ◼ ► not show up i haven't used this mechanism very often i used it once before for nratv for similar
00:58:10 ◼ ► reasons that i believe that it was violating apple's own guidelines and i used it uh i think
00:58:16 ◼ ► two or three times something like that occasionally a random podcaster will find overcast will say hey
00:58:24 ◼ ► my podcast is showing up in your app that's copyright infringement i demand you take it down
00:58:29 ◼ ► and you know what when people say that i say okay and i set this flag and it's gone from overcast
00:58:35 ◼ ► anyway so i used this flag on these infowars properties because it was very clear that they
00:58:44 ◼ ► were violating apple's guidelines but apple was not removing it from their directory and i was
00:58:49 ◼ ► hearing about it from a lot of people you know a few days a few days after i did that apple
00:58:54 ◼ ► pulled them from the directory and so did everyone else basically and and so you know i think i was
00:59:00 ◼ ► proven right um it was you know had i known apple was going to pull them a few days later i might
00:59:05 ◼ ► have just waited for them to do it so that way like i'm not involved in this um but ultimately
00:59:10 ◼ ► you know it had to be done they were clearly in violation and it was high profile enough that a
00:59:16 ◼ ► lot of people were seeing it and that can get me in a lot of trouble that like that could get me
00:59:22 ◼ ► possibly involved legally in ramifications of this show that can get me kicked out of the app store
00:59:27 ◼ ► because the app store has rules against this stuff so basically like i took action because it was
00:59:32 ◼ ► clearly necessary and i didn't know that apple was about to take their own action so i took my own
00:59:36 ◼ ► i am 100 confident in the action i took and the ability i have to do this because sometimes it is
00:59:43 ◼ ► necessary and i really try i i hope to use it as little as possible because i don't want to put
00:59:49 ◼ ► myself in this position but sometimes you have to be in this position like sometimes something like
00:59:53 ◼ ► this happens where people are you know demanding immediate action and you look at the problem and
00:59:59 ◼ ► you're like well i kind of don't like that i'm seeming that i'm being kind of bullied into a
01:00:04 ◼ ► decision like this but if you look at the you know look at the actual situation it's like yeah this
01:00:09 ◼ ► actually should be solved like this is a problem this does require action so they're correct like
01:00:14 ◼ ► the people asking me to do this are correct so it's important not to think defensively in that
01:00:18 ◼ ► time and just say okay actually yeah this is right i i should take action and just do it
01:00:22 ◼ ► anyway so going back to the original topic these crazy shows remain playable in overcast if you
01:00:30 ◼ ► enter their urls but they're gone for my search directory and so to continue with the events that
01:00:35 ◼ ► took place so you did this what like last week middle of last week or something yeah yeah i
01:00:40 ◼ ► don't remember the exact day but it was last week and so after that apple did eventually do what you
01:00:45 ◼ ► would you know the reason you had to do this because apple hadn't removed uh the info stuff
01:00:49 ◼ ► and apple did eventually remove all the podcasts except for one i guess uh but anyway apple did
01:00:55 ◼ ► remove it so your your block uh your custom block was pretty much only needed temporarily because
01:01:01 ◼ ► now all those things are actually gone from apple's directory as well and after apple did it facebook
01:01:06 ◼ ► and youtube both got rid of that you know the same content on their on their services uh and you know
01:01:13 ◼ ► that grueber was investigating trying to figure out like was this a coordinated thing between
01:01:18 ◼ ► the big three companies uh or was it that apple did it and then once apple did it facebook and
01:01:23 ◼ ► youtube did it and it seems like apple did it and then facebook and youtube did it which i find
01:01:27 ◼ ► depressing because it's like it's so it's so sort of reactive and so big company kind of thing where
01:01:33 ◼ ► it's like uh nobody notices or cares until one of your one of your few handful of important
01:01:39 ◼ ► competitors does something and now you quickly have to do otherwise you look bad it's like well
01:01:43 ◼ ► you all looked bad for a really long time before this but apparently no one cared but as soon as
01:01:47 ◼ ► one goes then everybody has to go it's such a weird kind of high school peer pressure thing
01:01:52 ◼ ► among like the biggest companies in the world and it's the it's not a it's not a good look uh
01:01:58 ◼ ► because it's not like i i find it hard to believe these companies didn't know about this issue like
01:02:03 ◼ ► lots of it's you know it's it's highly charged lots of people on both sides are constantly probably
01:02:06 ◼ ► yelling at both companies about it uh just like someone had to go first and then it looks and then
01:02:11 ◼ ► you have to follow what they did because if you don't do it and it's like well apple did it why
01:02:15 ◼ ► didn't you i find it really depressing um but another interesting aspect of this the group
01:02:19 ◼ ► pointed out is that so apple removed it from the podcast directory which again the reason i wanted
01:02:22 ◼ ► you to explain how podcasts work and what a podcast is just to make it clear that unlike the
01:02:28 ◼ ► case of like youtube and facebook all apple has done is essentially removed an item from like a
01:02:34 ◼ ► search index it's the same as like google not showing your thing in search results your thing
01:02:40 ◼ ► this podcast continues to exist exactly as it has always existed hosted exactly where it's always
01:02:45 ◼ ► been hosted available to exactly the same people it's always been available to the only difference
01:02:49 ◼ ► is it doesn't show up in search marco made it so it doesn't show up in his search and then apple
01:02:52 ◼ ► made it so it doesn't show up in their search and therefore won't show up in marco search right
01:02:56 ◼ ► that's it but apple didn't get rid of the the app in the app store for i don't know what the hell
01:03:02 ◼ ► this app could possibly do it is probably just another way to get the same content right so it's
01:03:06 ◼ ► an infowars app that remains in the app store uh and i'm not quite sure how to square that it seems
01:03:14 ◼ ► like if you think it's it's all a gateway to the same terrible content right and if the content is
01:03:19 ◼ ► violating some kind of guidelines like i don't know anyway i'm imagining that there might be
01:03:23 ◼ ► some follow-up on that in the future to see if the app ever gets pulled because apple especially
01:03:27 ◼ ► the app store apple's been really testy about like political apps like i don't know what the rules
01:03:31 ◼ ► are these days but i remember back like in the 2008 election there was you know some political
01:03:36 ◼ ► apps and apple was like at one point they didn't want like overtly political apps in the app store
01:03:42 ◼ ► and would pull them uh anyway i i really hope that apple gets on the same page here and and
01:03:49 ◼ ► delist the app as well because i don't i don't quite get how the rules would be different it
01:03:52 ◼ ► might just be like it's a big company and there's different people in charge of those two things and
01:03:56 ◼ ► so the other shoe will drop eventually well i thought it was because there were different
01:03:59 ◼ ► guidelines whether you're in the app store or in the podcast directory and for whatever reason
01:04:05 ◼ ► the guidelines and rules and regulations in the app store are not a hundred percent in lock step
01:04:12 ◼ ► with what's in the podcast directory or the rules for the podcast directory and apparently there
01:04:16 ◼ ► were clear violations in the podcast directory but i guess the app follows the letter of the quote
01:04:21 ◼ ► unquote law in the app store at least that's my understanding i haven't personally looked into
01:04:25 ◼ ► whether or not that's true or not yeah honestly i haven't had time to look into it either but
01:04:30 ◼ ► it wouldn't surprise me if it's just because you know apple's a big company these are totally
01:04:34 ◼ ► separate divisions of apple it wouldn't surprise me if the app is pulled like tomorrow or the next
01:04:40 ◼ ► day like because it just took a while to get you know approved by the right people or whatever else
01:04:44 ◼ ► like it's complicated and i honestly i haven't even looked at the app yet i don't i don't have
01:04:47 ◼ ► enough time yeah and it might it might just be like oh the app counts as like a player app like
01:04:51 ◼ ► there's no actual content and all it does is play things so you wouldn't pull it just like you
01:04:54 ◼ ► wouldn't pull a web browser but at this point it's kind of like the principle like the this entity is
01:04:59 ◼ ► uh disapproved of by all the big peers and everything like that and but there's one exception
01:05:09 ◼ ► uh and that was uh twitter uh info wars is also on twitter and after apple did it facebook and
01:05:15 ◼ ► youtube did it twitter did not get rid of uh the info war as alex jones accounts shocking and
01:05:22 ◼ ► yeah and many people were angry about that and uh what does jack dorsey see their ceo i guess
01:05:29 ◼ ► yes okay yeah anyway he's on twitter of course uh trying to explain why they didn't get rid of it
01:05:35 ◼ ► then let go it didn't technically didn't violate our guidelines and so on and so forth and lots
01:05:43 ◼ ► exactly the parameters of the situation and his thinking behind doing it but you know that's
01:05:52 ◼ ► marco or apple or youtube or facebook or twitter all these things are private entities and they all
01:05:58 ◼ ► have to make decisions about what they want on their platforms that they pay for and they run
01:06:03 ◼ ► no you know no thing has an intrinsic right to appear on youtube be on facebook be part of marco's
01:06:12 ◼ ► you know podcast directory be broadcast on nbc like there's there is no right to that you have
01:06:18 ◼ ► a right to free speech you have a right to the government not putting you in jail for doing
01:06:21 ◼ ► something but you don't have a right to these private platforms so every private you know every
01:06:26 ◼ ► platform has to choose what kind of things do we allow here the example that i try to try to pick
01:06:30 ◼ ► example that we can all agree on i think i found a better one that i usually pick spam almost
01:06:35 ◼ ► everybody who has the platform tries to stop spam spam is just like automated you know content that's
01:06:42 ◼ ► like you know advertisements or false things that are trying to make you think that there's
01:06:46 ◼ ► something else or whatever but spam we all know what spam is everybody who has a platform suffers
01:06:51 ◼ ► from spam everyone has a platform tries to stop it uh and nobody ever makes free speech complaints
01:06:57 ◼ ► about spam because everyone understands well of course you're not gonna let spam that's just
01:07:00 ◼ ► garbage right and well i have the right to spam you no you don't just like do you run twitter do
01:07:05 ◼ ► you pay for our servers do you like twitter makes the rules and the rules for twitter and youtube
01:07:09 ◼ ► and facebook and apple's podcast directory is we try to stop spam because it's crappy and why
01:07:14 ◼ ► why do we try to stop it because if we let spam there no it would make our service less attractive
01:07:20 ◼ ► we think that if we let tons and tons of spam be in the podcast directory people would find
01:07:25 ◼ ► our podcast directory less useful and we want it to be useful why does twitter try to stop spam
01:07:30 ◼ ► there's too much spam every time you go on twitter all you see is just tons and tons of people at
01:07:33 ◼ ► mentioning you with pictures of boobs and butts that's bad it will make you it'll make twitter
01:07:38 ◼ ► a worse experience so all these things make decisions about what is and isn't allowed to
01:07:43 ◼ ► try to make their service how they want it to be the best they the best thing it can be to the
01:07:48 ◼ ► customers that they want and so the entire argument about twitter and all these things is from the
01:07:52 ◼ ► group of people who says twitter would be better if you got rid of alex jones if you got rid of
01:07:57 ◼ ► insert whatever here and then it's twitter kind of never really talking about that but instead saying
01:08:05 ◼ ► well we have some rules and we think these rules are the ideal rules to form the community that we
01:08:12 ◼ ► want to form and this doesn't violate our rules therefore we allow it to be there it's just lots
01:08:16 ◼ ► of people yelling and saying we think your service would be better if you got rid of this and them
01:08:20 ◼ ► saying we don't think it would be better and they're an impasse because it's their service
01:08:25 ◼ ► they can pick whatever they want they could let spam in if they want they could delete everyone's
01:08:29 ◼ ► account that begins with the letter p like they you do whatever they want it's their platform the
01:08:33 ◼ ► whole point is an argument over what makes a good community and we're we're members of this
01:08:38 ◼ ► community we can all have opinions and you can vote with your feed and say well this community
01:08:42 ◼ ► has become accessible and it's unattractive to me so i'm going to leave this community and go
01:08:47 ◼ ► elsewhere and that's the signal that you can give to twitter to say the rules that you have chosen
01:08:53 ◼ ► for your community no longer appeal to me or you can yell at them on twitter and say i like your
01:08:59 ◼ ► platform but you're making it worse by allowing this to happen so please change things and
01:09:03 ◼ ► youtube facebook and apple's podcast directory and marco personally get exactly the same feedback
01:09:10 ◼ ► people telling them you have a thing and a set of rules and it is less attractive to me because of
01:09:15 ◼ ► this thing that you're doing please change something and marco's case you know he said yes
01:09:20 ◼ ► i'm going to change this because i agree with you my podcast directory would be better and it's also
01:09:24 ◼ ► a smart business position yada yada all the things that he talked about if i got rid of this so
01:09:29 ◼ ► you know it's it's frustrating to see these kind of debates because at this point i think the
01:09:38 ◼ ► what i just tried to outline like the the basic parameters of like private platforms versus free
01:09:43 ◼ ► speech issues should be so well known that it should be like a meme that everybody learns when
01:09:48 ◼ ► they're seven that like you know how if you are putting your content on some website or social
01:09:55 ◼ ► media thing or whatever that you have no right to be there that free speech and you know the
01:10:00 ◼ ► first amendment and everything are in the united states or whatever only applies to like government
01:10:05 ◼ ► restraint on speech it doesn't apply to your right to have your message distributed by a private
01:10:12 ◼ ► company and yet every time this comes up despite tons of memes and xkcd comics and explainers and
01:10:19 ◼ ► animated gifs and wikipedia pages and a hundred people trying to explain this patiently literally
01:10:25 ◼ ► every time it comes up just just go through the replies and just i thought this was a free country
01:10:30 ◼ ► free speech are you in favor of censorship blah blah and it just it like it's like this is a
01:10:35 ◼ ► lesson that apparently we can never actually learn we are doomed forever to have to re-explain it
01:10:41 ◼ ► um and so i guess we're i'm trying to fill that purpose here to have yet another venue in which
01:10:45 ◼ ► people who have never heard this you know because people are born every day who haven't heard that
01:10:49 ◼ ► it's not free speech when you can't post something on twitter or it's not a violation of free speech
01:10:53 ◼ ► when you can't suppose something on twitter uh that that is not the situation that is merely
01:10:58 ◼ ► an argument about what people think the rules should be for a private company's community and
01:11:04 ◼ ► all we can do is either leave or complain or both and twitter eventually makes a decision about what
01:11:12 ◼ ► they're going to do um i'm thinking that enough sustained pressure will make twitter join its
01:11:19 ◼ ► peers because i think facebook and apple and youtube doing it is substantial amount of peer
01:11:23 ◼ ► pressure but who knows there's things happen so quickly these days this could all blow over and
01:11:28 ◼ ► we'll forget about it until the next big flare-up um i don't know i'm just i'm just depressed that
01:11:34 ◼ ► we keep going through this cycle and i'm doubly depressed because if it's not clear what side i
01:11:43 ◼ ► he's got his own website he can publish his stuff if he can get a tv station to air his garbage fine
01:11:48 ◼ ► but i wish all the platforms that i participated in would boot him off because i think he's a
01:11:53 ◼ ► garbage person yeah agreed yeah like you know my my response to this you know it's it's hard
01:12:00 ◼ ► and people on twitter accuse me of you know being partisan sometimes and everything because it's hard
01:12:04 ◼ ► because i have you know the business that i run here and i also have my own personal feelings
01:12:16 ◼ ► a lot of republicans recently and uh and the people who vote for them and and people who
01:12:22 ◼ ► control their media like like this clown um i i think very very little of them i'm very vocal
01:12:28 ◼ ► about that on twitter frequently so people know that about me but i also run this business that
01:12:33 ◼ ► shouldn't have that strong of an of an editorial voice to say you know like only left-wing political
01:12:39 ◼ ► stuff is permitted or whatever else you know that that's that's not a position that my business
01:12:43 ◼ ► should take and with this you know with this action of me like you know removing them from search
01:12:48 ◼ ► a lot of people i think people were more surprised i mean i got a few people saying like
01:12:53 ◼ ► you know i'm you know being biased here because of my political views or whatever else but but i also
01:12:59 ◼ ► got some legitimate people saying you know i'm not comfortable with you having the the ability
01:13:04 ◼ ► or exercising the ability to d-list shows and and i think you know what i what i mainly wanted to
01:13:12 ◼ ► communicate here and i think what john did a better job of than i did is that the ability
01:13:17 ◼ ► to control what shows get listed is necessary and that ability gets exercised all the time just
01:13:23 ◼ ► usually by apple but like you know as you mentioned the spam example i mentioned like you know various
01:13:28 ◼ ► other like legal concerns copyright issues stuff like that where like there's lots of podcasts that
01:13:35 ◼ ► exist in the world that don't show up in search engines in any popular podcast app because a
01:13:41 ◼ ► very many legitimate practical reasons so like the the ability to remove podcasts from search
01:13:49 ◼ ► indexes or to not add them in the first place like after some kind of editorial or human decision
01:13:54 ◼ ► that ability is necessary for lots of reasons and is exercised all the time always has been and
01:14:00 ◼ ► probably always will be the question of whether that ability should exist or should be used i in
01:14:07 ◼ ► my opinion is a totally solved problem yes that ability is necessary for lots of practical reasons
01:14:13 ◼ ► and needs to be used so the only question becomes then when you use it and so i try to keep myself
01:14:19 ◼ ► as uninvolved as possible by relying on apple and only intervening when it's pretty clear that you
01:14:25 ◼ ► know apple has not enforced their own rules i haven't even written my own rules i just say these
01:14:30 ◼ ► are apple's rules i agree these are reasonable rules and if you can show me an example of a
01:14:36 ◼ ► podcast clearly not obeying those rules that apple won't take action on then if i have to take action
01:14:46 ◼ ► uncomfortable whatever you want to be in order with but like the idea that uh that overcast is
01:14:51 ◼ ► the kingmaker for podcasts like it's it's when when certain you know private companies reach a
01:14:57 ◼ ► certain size that's when you know in theory antitrust starts to become a factor it's like
01:15:01 ◼ ► well you're not the government but you're so big you're the de facto decider on some large
01:15:06 ◼ ► area of our life or culture or market and now this potential antitrust for you having too much
01:15:12 ◼ ► to clean up blah blah blah and you know in the past that has been a thing let's say and has
01:15:17 ◼ ► has been used to both good and bad measure in various times in the history of the country
01:15:21 ◼ ► but marco is not at that point um that's why i wanted uh to have an explanation of like
01:15:30 ◼ ► how podcasts work marco someone who is not the dominant podcast player in the entire world yet
01:15:36 ◼ ► he's working on it uh is him delisting you not only doesn't make it appreciably harder for people
01:15:43 ◼ ► to find your podcast it doesn't actually affect the podcast at all which continues to be hosted
01:15:49 ◼ ► exactly where it has always been hosted and available to exactly the same people it's just
01:15:53 ◼ ► removing something from a search result in an app that is used by a small fraction of the people
01:15:57 ◼ ► listen to podcasts and they can still use this app to listen to the podcast and they just enter the
01:16:01 ◼ ► url right so it is the most benign kind kind of de-platforming because unlike youtube and facebook
01:16:09 ◼ ► he is not kicking them off a platform he is removing them from a search result uh so i you
01:16:17 ◼ ► know again you can be uncomfortable at whatever you want to be covered but if you're afraid this
01:16:20 ◼ ► is like an overreach of tremendous power hurting someone who wants to get their voice out this is
01:16:27 ◼ ► not that in any reasonable sense of the word and understanding the boring nitty-gritty technical
01:16:33 ◼ ► details of which most people don't reveals that again independent of what you think about any of
01:16:38 ◼ ► this like this isn't you know i i think it is not particularly reasonable to be uh uncomfortable
01:16:44 ◼ ► with that because it is so it's such a it's such a non-event as far as the content and the reach
01:16:50 ◼ ► of that content goes also and honestly you know i want to i want to set um you know set the
01:16:57 ◼ ► expectations of what actually happened here accordingly i got very little actual pushback on this compared to the
01:17:02 ◼ ► amount of people who were incredibly supportive so no don't feel bad for me because this has been
01:17:08 ◼ ► only good for my business if anything um you know i didn't do it for that reason but for the most
01:17:13 ◼ ► part there are there are way way more people on the positive side of this than on the horrible
01:17:20 ◼ ► side of this and that's the argument i would make to twitter if i could ever talk to someone who
01:17:24 ◼ ► would listen would be like your service will be better as in it will be more attractive to users
01:17:30 ◼ ► if you get rid of things that most people in your service don't like like nazis and axjone
01:17:35 ◼ ► right and and just like in marco's case there were some people who there will be some people who are
01:17:39 ◼ ► angry about that but i i would make the argument like a profit motive you are a private company
01:17:44 ◼ ► that wants to be successful not like a moral argument or anything like that which you should
01:17:48 ◼ ► be able to make very easily too but just like the most craven capitalist argument is your service
01:17:54 ◼ ► will be better and more attractive to people if you change it in this way because people like to
01:17:58 ◼ ► hang out in a place that's pleasant and they get all tied up in knots worrying about oh no people
01:18:04 ◼ ► will be uncomfortable because twitter is way bigger than overcast still um and so like oh you are if
01:18:09 ◼ ► you kick them off twitter that's such a big thing there is no equivalent to twitter now they can't
01:18:12 ◼ ► get their voice out which today is not true whatever but uh it will make the service better
01:18:18 ◼ ► like it will make a pleasant the same same with spam like if it's almost as if you have to explain
01:18:23 ◼ ► to them here's why you should get rid of spam because every time i go on quitter it's just 100
01:18:26 ◼ ► bots telling me to buy real estate and showing me boobs and butts in the community porn sites and i
01:18:30 ◼ ► can't see any of the people i follow because people are constantly mentioning me it's just
01:18:34 ◼ ► spam wall to wall and having to make like a years-long argument to twitter to say listen you
01:18:39 ◼ ► should get rid of spam it will make your service better they'd be like i don't know i'm really
01:18:42 ◼ ► uncomfortable deciding what content is spam or what content is not spam i really don't want to
01:18:47 ◼ ► make those calls i feel like our place is not editorialized and blah it's like you just want
01:18:51 ◼ ► to wring their neck that's what it's like with nazis and alex drones and i can't seem to get
01:18:55 ◼ ► through twitter's thick skull that you know you'll make your service better and like it just becomes
01:19:01 ◼ ► clear they think you know that it's engagement at all costs and all these other even more craving
01:19:05 ◼ ► reasons why people think like they need to have some element of of danger and badness because
01:19:09 ◼ ► that causes people to yell at each other and they just need to have monthly active users and all
01:19:13 ◼ ► those other stuff the same argument for spam in fact lots of bots they're like oh they don't want
01:19:16 ◼ ► to get rid of the bots because their monthly active user numbers will go down but eventually they were
01:19:19 ◼ ► convinced of that uh but yeah i would i would love to sit twitter down and explain to them that
01:19:25 ◼ ► people will like your product better and will use it more if you make it nicer by getting rid
01:19:30 ◼ ► of nazis and alex jones but we we have not yet won that argument still trying honestly you're not
01:19:35 ◼ ► going to ever win that argument because like all these like horrible hate mongers that have media
01:19:42 ◼ ► presences and followings and and hate groups on you know places like you know 4chan and some reddit
01:19:48 ◼ ► groups and stuff like that these groups have been empowered by the political climate of the u.s
01:19:55 ◼ ► in the last couple of years um they you know they're growing or at least their their volume
01:20:03 ◼ ► is growing and all this is you know from people i mean many of them are russian bots but you know
01:20:10 ◼ ► some of them are actually people and and so you know somewhere like we say this as though like
01:20:15 ◼ ► oh the the people running twitter should recognize that these bad people who support this horrible
01:20:23 ◼ ► you know hate uh shouldn't be along on twitter without considering the possibility that the
01:20:30 ◼ ► people who make these sorts of decisions at twitter are among those bad people but i think
01:20:36 ◼ ► it's very obvious when you look at the actions and inactions of twitter regarding hate content
01:20:43 ◼ ► racist content nazi content harassment lots of related things like that i think it's very obvious
01:20:50 ◼ ► that the people who make these decisions at twitter up to jack himself and god knows who else
01:21:03 ◼ ► sean hannity's suck-up audience like these they are those people i don't buy that i i think that
01:21:09 ◼ ► the other explanation which is that they're so naive that they think they think they are the
01:21:13 ◼ ► u.s government and they just don't they want to have this hands-off attitude and and their
01:21:20 ◼ ► just like i am a high-minded elevated uh benevolent overlord of a free exchange of ideas type thing like
01:21:27 ◼ ► they say all those things and i mostly believe them because naivete seems to be a more i don't
01:21:32 ◼ ► say that there aren't there aren't sympathizers for all these things inside the companies but i
01:21:36 ◼ ► think at the very top it's mostly just a bunch of left-leaning people who are incredibly misguided
01:21:41 ◼ ► about what would actually make their service better and about their role and their damage
01:21:48 ◼ ► neo-nazis now jones i was holocaust deniers right they're asking about holocaust deniers and he's
01:21:52 ◼ ► like well you know it's not really my place to say it's like oh like i really don't think oh he's a
01:21:57 ◼ ► turd too i don't really don't think zuckerberg is a closet holocaust denier for you know it's it's
01:22:03 ◼ ► highly unlikely but he definitely is very naive about uh the damage to his platform the damage
01:22:08 ◼ ► to his platform by allowing that stuff and the damage caused by people using his platform to
01:22:13 ◼ ► disseminate that so naivete is a more uh i think a more plausible explanation as far as i'm concerned
01:22:20 ◼ ► than actual malice but there's there's probably some malice mixed in i just think not at the very
01:22:24 ◼ ► top well i think if i may put words in marco's mouth i i think your point marco may be that
01:22:30 ◼ ► they're really ultimately no different from those that sympathize with these terrible people
01:22:36 ◼ ► because they're not taking action to silence them and and even if jack or or mark zuckerberg don't
01:22:43 ◼ ► personally agree with these hate mongers which i think is a good description by giving them a
01:22:48 ◼ ► platform to spread this hate they are effectively in bed with them even if they're not conceptually
01:22:56 ◼ ► in bed with them and for all intents and purposes they are in bed with them because they're allowing
01:23:01 ◼ ► this to continue is that a fair description or am i totally they're enabling it i mean that's
01:23:06 ◼ ► but but they're also like it's like you know these places they even have rules against like hate
01:23:12 ◼ ► content and stuff that they just selectively don't enforce like you know they don't enforce it against
01:23:17 ◼ ► this popular person they don't enforce it against the president you know there there are there are
01:23:22 ◼ ► rules that like other people on twitter have to follow unless you're a big media personality or
01:23:26 ◼ ► the president in which case rules against hate speech and racism and things don't apply to you
01:23:31 ◼ ► like yeah they have those counter rules where it's like oh newsworthiness trumps all so you know so
01:23:35 ◼ ► to speak i think naivety is is a reasonable conclusion or explanation to a point like for
01:23:43 ◼ ► like one or two kind of instances like this for like oh they did something dumb because you know
01:23:47 ◼ ► they didn't realize how bad it was we're well past that point with these with especially with twitter
01:23:52 ◼ ► and somewhat with facebook i i still i still think they still don't realize because they it doesn't
01:23:56 ◼ ► affect them or their life and they you know they're not it's not it's not real to them they
01:24:01 ◼ ► don't see or understand the consequence like zuckerberg is the most amazing to me like because
01:24:05 ◼ ► i think he was telling the truth like i don't think you can act that dumb and naive like it
01:24:08 ◼ ► just seemed like he was earnestly expressed and the rules are the best because it's like it's rules
01:24:14 ◼ ► they make up for themselves and like well we have to follow the rules like you make the rules like
01:24:19 ◼ ► don't try to like they're like rules lawyering like dnd rules lawyering themselves like well we have
01:24:23 ◼ ► you know no hate speech except for notability and newsworthiness is more important it's like those
01:24:29 ◼ ► just you you don't need to make a set of rules and then follow them yourself you control the whole
01:24:34 ◼ ► service you can do whatever you can do with literally whatever the rule could be whatever
01:24:38 ◼ ► i feel like that is also a valid rule set and i understand having a fixed set of rules is an
01:24:44 ◼ ► important thing to do if so everyone knows what's expected of them let's sort of a code of conduct
01:24:48 ◼ ► if you will right but if you find yourself constantly adding new amendments and stuff to
01:24:54 ◼ ► sort of explain like this weird you know because it's it's dishonest like everyone says like oh
01:24:58 ◼ ► the reason you allow the president there is because this is a tremendous amount of engagement and it's
01:25:01 ◼ ► a high profile way for for people to constantly have the word twitter on their lips and like but
01:25:05 ◼ ► you'll never put that in the rules like you're you'll if you follow these rules will be banned
01:25:10 ◼ ► unless your value to our platform is determined to be worth more than the violation of the rules
01:25:14 ◼ ► like that's the real rule but they don't write that down so they're like well there's newsworthiness
01:25:18 ◼ ► and there's you know the importance of your statement for other people to read even if it
01:25:22 ◼ ► is a violence it's so it's so silly and so kind of you know stereotypically sort of nerdy of like
01:25:31 ◼ ► trying to make a system that rationalizes the thing that you were going to do anyway for reasons
01:25:37 ◼ ► that are too shameful for you to admit perhaps even to yourself yeah and i think i think in this
01:25:42 ◼ ► day and age refusing to take action against like huge obvious bad forces when you have the amount
01:25:50 ◼ ► of power that twitter and facebook and google have i think refusing to take action is being
01:25:58 ◼ ► complicit in these problems as as it was said on the past podcast i forget who this quote from
01:26:03 ◼ ► is that neutrality favors the oppressor never the oppressed right so they're trying to be high-minded
01:26:09 ◼ ► and neutral and just like we're just a platform man that that helps the oppressor it always helps
01:26:14 ◼ ► the oppressor it always helps the the one in power oppressing the less powerful saying oh we're going
01:26:19 ◼ ► to stay out of it they're like great stay out of it because otherwise someone might try to stop us
01:26:23 ◼ ► so now now we can have our way with all these people we are sponsored this week by squarespace
01:26:30 ◼ ► start building your website today at squarespace.com slash atp enter offer code atp at checkout to get
01:26:36 ◼ ► 10 off make your next move with a beautiful website from squarespace squarespace makes it
01:26:42 ◼ ► really easy to make websites no matter what your website needs whether it's a podcast or a portfolio
01:26:48 ◼ ► or an online store for either digital or physical goods or something easier to host like a blog you
01:26:54 ◼ ► can do all that squarespace with very little effort compared to pretty much any other way to host
01:26:59 ◼ ► websites online you don't have to install anything you don't have to update anything you don't have
01:27:03 ◼ ► to maintain anything you aren't responsible for keeping it up if there's heavy traffic and if
01:27:08 ◼ ► there's anybody who needs support whether it's you or the person you're building the website for
01:27:11 ◼ ► you just contact squarespace so if you're making an website for somebody else you don't need to
01:27:15 ◼ ► support it yourself which is pretty nice squarespace sites look professionally designed regardless of
01:27:21 ◼ ► your skill level there's no coding required everything is controlled by intuitive easy to use
01:27:27 ◼ ► tools everything's drag and drop everything has live previewing it's super easy you can even do
01:27:31 ◼ ► things like create logos in squarespace if you want to they have all sorts of built-in functionality
01:27:36 ◼ ► see for yourself i'm telling you if you have a website to make whether it's for your new project
01:27:44 ◼ ► or whether somebody has asked you to maybe help them make a website or make it for them
01:27:53 ◼ ► an hour then you can just hand it off to them and it's it that's it it's done see for yourself by
01:27:58 ◼ ► starting a free trial and doing exactly that try to make whatever site you have to make next try
01:28:03 ◼ ► on squarespace first your free trial has no credit card required so you can you can see the whole
01:28:07 ◼ ► thing you can see everything that squarespace can do you can even show other people see get their
01:28:12 ◼ ► feedback all that at squarespace.com slash atp when you decide to sign up make sure to head to
01:28:17 ◼ ► that url squarespace.com slash atp and use offer code atp to get 10 off your first purchase once
01:28:23 ◼ ► again squarespace.com slash atp and code atp for 10 off your first purchase thank you so much to
01:28:29 ◼ ► squarespace for sponsoring our show make your next move with squarespace all right let's bring this
01:28:37 ◼ ► up and end on a happier note with some ask atp and let's start with Fabian Deem who writes i would
01:28:45 ◼ ► love to know your mac os doc preferences this is not going to end well never mind with regards to
01:28:49 ◼ ► placement auto hide magnifying effect and app running indicators i will start when i was at
01:28:56 ◼ ► work and when i had a normal big boy job i always had two monitors and i preferred to keep the
01:29:04 ◼ ► biggest monitor directly in front of me with my laptop to my left and for whatever reason that
01:29:09 ◼ ► caused me to put my dock on the left i do have uh auto hide on i do have genie effect on and i
01:29:17 ◼ ► do have it um what was the other one oh uh brown indicators there you go yeah i do have those on as
01:29:23 ◼ ► well in my personal opinion i prefer left i'm okay with right i think bottom doc people are
01:29:31 ◼ ► i was going to say monsters let's be a little more respectful are making a poor choice because
01:29:37 ◼ ► all of our screens these days are wide screens so with auto hide i guess you can get away with it
01:29:42 ◼ ► but without auto hide especially if you're going to lose real estate lose some horizontal real
01:29:46 ◼ ► estate not vertical real estate we have so little to begin with anyway that's my situation auto
01:29:50 ◼ ► hidden on the left that's where i like it marco how about you uh i'm also a left doc person uh
01:29:57 ◼ ► the bottom doc you know i respect people who do the bottom doc in the sense that it looks nice
01:30:01 ◼ ► and it's the default and everything else but i think it's a bad default because max for a very
01:30:07 ◼ ► long time have had short screens uh so it's weird to waste your more precious dimension of screen
01:30:15 ◼ ► real estate uh on a an element that is by default static so exactly anyway so yeah i uh i'm a left
01:30:24 ◼ ► doc person i do auto hiding on laptops but not on desktops because on desktops i have enough screen
01:30:31 ◼ ► real estate that i i actually get it get enough value out of having the doc always present that
01:30:36 ◼ ► i do it i have it always on on desktops on the left side um i leave my dots on because i like dots
01:30:41 ◼ ► and uh no resizing or scaling or anything like that just constant size hmm john so i'm going to
01:30:50 ◼ ► defend the bottom doctors because i am one on the desktop and there are uh you know reasonable uh
01:30:56 ◼ ► reasons to have it down there first if you're an old school mac person like i am you have your
01:31:00 ◼ ► drives on the desktop and they go on the right so if you do right doc it's potentially overlapping
01:31:04 ◼ ► your drive second if you're an old school mac person uh you like to have your windows in the
01:31:09 ◼ ► upper left corner because that's where they've been for your entire life and you don't want to
01:31:12 ◼ ► make room for them on the left side uh with your doc third reason if it's your right hand and you
01:31:17 ◼ ► tend to have a mouse cursor hovering towards the right side left doc makes no sense i would love to
01:31:22 ◼ ► hide the doc entirely and just use drag during as my process switcher but you can't because the
01:31:26 ◼ ► apis the doc uses for notifications and other stuff is not available through public apis and
01:31:33 ◼ ► no one even hacks into them to use them with private apis these days uh and finally yes the
01:31:38 ◼ ► screens are wider than they are tall but the only thing that matters is would you benefit from seeing
01:31:43 ◼ ► an additional inch of vertical content in any of your windows and for me on a large desktop display
01:31:48 ◼ ► my answer is no because like you literally have to like move your neck to see from the top of a 5k to
01:31:57 ◼ ► and depending on how you have your doc scaled it takes up exactly the same number of pixels total
01:32:04 ◼ ► on your screen whether it's on the side or on the right again depending on how it's scaled obviously
01:32:07 ◼ ► if you have a full width it doesn't or whatever but it's not like it's actually taking up more
01:32:11 ◼ ► room so do i need that to see that extra inch of vertical space or will it be more disruptive to
01:32:18 ◼ ► have it on the right or left that said on a laptop my answer is yes i do need to see that additional
01:32:22 ◼ ► inch of space and so you just can't do bottom doc and laptop is the screens are just they're not 5k
01:32:27 ◼ ► screens they're small so on a laptop i do right doc i used to do pinning on the right doc but
01:32:33 ◼ ► these days i think they took that out even in the p-list setting or whatever um auto hide no because
01:32:39 ◼ ► i can't stand to wait for things to happen so i wish i could auto hide it but i just it takes too
01:32:45 ◼ ► long to i can't stand the waiting uh magnify no uh app running indicators yes i was never sold on the
01:32:52 ◼ ► fact that you don't have to care whether your apps are running you still do need to care computers
01:32:55 ◼ ► are not fast enough ram is not plentiful enough uh so yes for indicators all right siesel shibe
01:33:01 ◼ ► writes how many hours a night do you sleep for instance john works a full-time job parents two
01:33:06 ◼ ► kids does many podcasts at least two of which are generously over one hour a week or i should say
01:33:11 ◼ ► conservatively uh as as well as cooks plays video games watches destiny videos and other movies does
01:33:16 ◼ ► 1000 backups etc that's actually pertinent given our discussion earlier and siesel finishes how
01:33:23 ◼ ► so john what's your secret this is just about how many hours a night you sleep so i tend to go to
01:33:28 ◼ ► bed like podcast nights i go to bed between 11 and 12 depending on how long we run every day i wake up
01:33:32 ◼ ► at 6 30 every weekday i wake up at 6 30 to you know get everything done and get to work on time
01:33:37 ◼ ► um so what is that like seven six and a half seven and a half hours depending on the day uh weekends
01:33:44 ◼ ► one day is my day to sleep in on weekends but with a house full of kids sleeping in sometimes just
01:33:48 ◼ ► means like eight o'clock or 8 30 but so on the weekends maybe i'll get eight hours of sleep so
01:33:52 ◼ ► i think that's plenty of sleep for an adult of my age six and a half seven and a half hours on
01:33:57 ◼ ► weekdays eight and a half nine hours on a weekend on one day on the weekend uh yeah so that's how
01:34:05 ◼ ► many hours a night of sleep and if you add up all the time that i do like i work from nine to five
01:34:09 ◼ ► i do breakfast and kids in the morning i cook dinner i take kids to activities uh i if i have
01:34:15 ◼ ► a podcast i can squeeze in uh you know an hour of destiny in the middle there if i'm if i'm good
01:34:21 ◼ ► on podcast nights i don't watch any television or anything else because there's just no time but on
01:34:25 ◼ ► nights when i don't have podcasts i can watch a tv show so it works out it's tight like i'm not gonna
01:34:30 ◼ ► say there's lots of slack time in there but it works out and it's not like i'm sleeping three
01:34:34 ◼ ► hours a night i mean i used to do that when i was younger where i would have a similar schedule and
01:34:38 ◼ ► i would like write from you know write some work on my uh you know mag s10 article for hours and
01:34:45 ◼ ► hours and go to bed at 3 a.m like but i can't do that anymore because i'm old uh thomas brock writes
01:34:51 ◼ ► in casey's latest video he points out that the manual golf golf r not golf golf r is missing a
01:34:57 ◼ ► lot of the advanced driver safety and convenience features he didn't point out that this is because
01:35:01 ◼ ► these features are incompatible with manual transmissions things like adaptive cruise control
01:35:05 ◼ ► collision avoidance and others may need to operate the vehicle beyond the speed range of a single
01:35:09 ◼ ► gear well these technologies eventually mean the death of a three-pedal car on an infinite timeline
01:35:13 ◼ ► well this isn't entirely true the car has adaptive cruise and in fact you can shift while cruise
01:35:18 ◼ ► control is on and when it senses that the clutch pedal is depressed it will kill the throttle until
01:35:24 ◼ ► the clutch pedal is distant or engage disengage always get it backwards until you pop pop your
01:35:28 ◼ ► foot off the clutch um the thing that the car does not have the golf r specifically does not have is
01:35:33 ◼ ► auto parking but everything else that i can think of collision avoidance um i mean i think it would
01:35:41 ◼ ► stop itself if necessary and i guess it would just stall if that's the case but everything except
01:35:46 ◼ ► parking i think it had so i get your point thomas and will it ever mean the death of three-pedal
01:35:55 ◼ ► car i don't think this is what's going to be the the nail on the coffin i think the nail nail in
01:35:59 ◼ ► the coffin is going to be people aren't buying them but john you are the one who put this in
01:36:02 ◼ ► here i think so i presume you have thoughts yeah i just wanted to hear actually which of these
01:36:08 ◼ ► things the the car has or not so you answered that because they could they can have still implement a
01:36:13 ◼ ► surprising number of assistive features but at a certain point especially for automation type
01:36:17 ◼ ► things you need to have a different kind of car at that point like you need to have like
01:36:21 ◼ ► essentially an automated manual uh that somehow you could also have like an automated manual that
01:36:28 ◼ ► also has like a clutch pedal or something like you could probably pull it off but in general when
01:36:32 ◼ ► you get into things where the car is driving itself manual transmission is not going to work
01:36:36 ◼ ► but as you said that's not why they're going away they're going to go away because people don't want
01:36:40 ◼ ► them because you know that that's just that's why they're going away because the other transmissions
01:36:44 ◼ ► are faster for performance we talked about this before it's not it's not the fastest performance
01:36:48 ◼ ► option anymore uh automated manuals are amazing and the people who care enough to have a slower
01:36:55 ◼ ► car because they like rowing gears uh we're all getting old and dying and not buying cars and so
01:37:00 ◼ ► that's why they're going to go away it's not because they can't add automation features
01:37:04 ◼ ► additionally there's um there's no fuel economy benefits anymore i remember years and years ago
01:37:11 ◼ ► it used to be that the automatics would be several miles a gallon uh less efficient and that's not
01:37:17 ◼ ► the case either in fact oftentimes it's the reverse and they used to be cheaper used to be
01:37:21 ◼ ► cheaper than automatic transmission so there's a price advantage right but nowadays the volumes are
01:37:25 ◼ ► so low that the price advantage there's still a price advantage in parts it does cost less money
01:37:29 ◼ ► to put a manual than an automatic but uh the volumes mean that it's the same price or sometimes
01:37:34 ◼ ► more expensive to get a manual because they make so few of them that's not always true like the
01:37:37 ◼ ► gulf are the dsg is a thousand or eleven hundred dollar option but i think in m cars for example
01:37:43 ◼ ► it is a no cost option to go manual i think in like corvettes it might be a no cost option to go
01:37:48 ◼ ► manual um i think it's bmw's only no cost option it's probably and they're making money on it
01:37:54 ◼ ► because like it is it is less expensive to put that in and to put it on my transmission
01:37:58 ◼ ► yeah uh secret in the chat also asks an interesting question uh casey what's the bigger deal to you the
01:38:03 ◼ ► third pedal or lack of a torque converter so for those who aren't aware torque converter is the
01:38:08 ◼ ► thing that makes an automatic work and it's to deeply deeply deeply oversimplify imagine two fans
01:38:16 ◼ ► in a pool of thick liquid and one of the fans is connected to the engine one is connected to the
01:38:20 ◼ ► wheels and when the car is stopped that means the engine fan is still spinning but the wheel fan
01:38:24 ◼ ► isn't i please don't write me that is a gross oversimplification just to get the idea across
01:38:30 ◼ ► so what's the bigger deal to me actually having a clutch or not having a torque converter
01:38:34 ◼ ► i like shifting myself i just think it's fun and so to me i would prefer to have a clutch pedal
01:38:41 ◼ ► but i have never particularly minded dual clutch cars where i don't have a clutch pedal but there
01:38:49 ◼ ► is no torque converter and as we explored in my very first casey on cars the zf8 speed when tuned
01:38:56 ◼ ► properly like it was in the julia that is a torque converter automatic and it was really good i'd
01:39:03 ◼ ► still prefer a clutch don't get me wrong but it was really really really good and i am slated to
01:39:09 ◼ ► get a dual clutch car in the next couple of weeks for my next edition of casey on cars and i suspect
01:39:16 ◼ ► i'm going to end up thinking you know what it's good i'd still take my clutch if i can get it but
01:39:22 ◼ ► it's good i drove a dual clutch car for three years and i came to the same conclusion uh it
01:39:27 ◼ ► and by the way dual clutch cars can have almost all of the assistive features uh that this question
01:39:34 ◼ ► was originally about like mine had adaptive cruise and it could go all the way from a stop
01:39:38 ◼ ► to whatever speed it was set to because it can you know it has the same abilities as automatics do
01:39:43 ◼ ► where the computer can adjust the speed the car won't stall if you hit zero um you know like
01:39:49 ◼ ► dual clutches have pretty much all the same advantages of automatics in the realm of like
01:39:54 ◼ ► what's possible in these uh advanced safety features um and i can i can say like you know
01:39:59 ◼ ► driving a dual clutch is not the same as driving a stick with a clutch it isn't the same but i found
01:40:05 ◼ ► it to be close enough and in some ways better john what's your hold up i have never still never
01:40:13 ◼ ► driven a torque converter automatic that i found acceptable but i haven't driven the fancy ones
01:40:17 ◼ ► that you have so right now i'm going to say uh i will do pretty much anything to avoid a torque
01:40:23 ◼ ► converter automatic until unless i find one that i don't find disgusting uh and beyond that obviously
01:40:28 ◼ ► i prefer manual because that's what i continue to buy and my second choice would be automated manual
01:40:32 ◼ ► and my distant third choice would be uh a torque converter automatic and my incredibly distant
01:40:38 ◼ ► fourth choice would be cvt you know it's funny you bring that up a little bit of a spoiler alert
01:40:45 ◼ ► i did not buy anything don't worry but i am getting a car in a couple of weeks that will
01:40:59 ◼ ► equipped car and i have to say i don't actively like it but i don't actively dislike it either
01:41:10 ◼ ► is it simulating an automatic is it one of those no it's not so if i take off from a stop and let's
01:41:16 ◼ ► say i'm at one third throttle the car will just sit at 2 000 rpm until i decide to stop accelerating
01:41:22 ◼ ► it's the most peculiar feeling in the world it almost feels like and marco's going to be deeply
01:41:27 ◼ ► offended by this it almost feels like a halfway between a a gasoline car and an electric car
01:41:33 ◼ ► because there doesn't seem to be any division of gears there's no there it's just it's just power
01:41:41 ◼ ► now in this particular car it's not a lot of power and i don't want to disclose much more than that
01:41:44 ◼ ► but it's just power that's fairly consistent if not an overabundance of it until you stop and
01:41:53 ◼ ► it's a very very very odd sensation i agree with you like i would certainly never choose to have
01:41:58 ◼ ► a cvt car and i i wouldn't say i like it but a lot of people i know especially early on when they
01:42:05 ◼ ► were new deeply disliked these and i think perhaps because it doesn't even bother trying to simulate
01:42:13 ◼ ► gears i don't find it actively bothersome but i don't particularly enjoy it either it's very very
01:42:19 ◼ ► very peculiar most of them do simulate gears now because they've learned through bitter experience
01:42:23 ◼ ► that people don't like it like the the promise of cvt is that you can run the engine at the
01:42:26 ◼ ► most efficient speed all the time but people hate that in terms of like it just sounds like it's
01:42:30 ◼ ► droning and it doesn't feel right so most of the cvts you can buy today are they simulate all the
01:42:34 ◼ ► stupidity of automatics like even though they totally don't have to they're doing it's like
01:42:38 ◼ ► the fake engine noise and marco's old m5 it is a simulation that makes the the cvt less efficient
01:42:45 ◼ ► and worse than it could possibly be to make the experience subjectively more pleasing to people
01:42:49 ◼ ► who expect that maybe eventually those people will get old and die and people will get used to it but
01:42:53 ◼ ► honestly electric is the way out of this if you want something it doesn't have gears and stuff
01:42:56 ◼ ► like just it doesn't have multiple ratio gear ratios that it shifts through get an electric and
01:43:01 ◼ ► the droning i guess if you have a powerful engine with enough noise isolation you can pretend you're
01:43:07 ◼ ► driving in like a bad electric but i don't i feel like the cvt is a a transitional form that has no
01:43:14 ◼ ► place in my life ever thanks to our sponsors this week hover betterment and squarespace and we will
01:43:20 ◼ ► see you next week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental
01:43:49 ◼ ► and if you're into twitter you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's casey list m a r c o
01:44:13 ◼ ► speaking of cars because i know people love the neutral segments what in the ever living hell is
01:44:31 ◼ ► tesla doing did you see this uh electrek post i did is this hot garbage oh god i don't know you're
01:44:39 ◼ ► not gonna get a model s anymore are you i thought this was gonna be a link about them taking the
01:44:43 ◼ ► company private but now i click on it i think it's just a thing about the cars no that i don't care
01:44:48 ◼ ► about that drama but like so this is the uh a couple of a couple days ago um this site electric
01:44:54 ◼ ► posted uh an exclusive first look based i think on leaked documents um at the tesla model s and x
01:45:01 ◼ ► interior refresh going spartan like model 3 allegedly i think i've been about a year or so
01:45:09 ◼ ► is when they're allegedly going to be doing this um and it has what purports to be like a like
01:45:15 ◼ ► leaked sketches of the of the new interior for the model s and x that really does basically look like
01:45:22 ◼ ► a bigger model 3 that has like you know the the large uh now horizontally uh landscape orientation
01:45:28 ◼ ► touch screen in the middle just like the three uh almost no display in front of the driver
01:45:34 ◼ ► um except for you know everything being on that big screen and the uh the whole cockpit basically
01:45:39 ◼ ► being even more spartan and minimal than it was before um to look basically like a giant three and
01:45:52 ◼ ► what do you guys think of this it costs not your hundred thousand dollar car i you left out the
01:46:00 ◼ ► best feature in these pictures which is they've taken all the best features of the out of the
01:46:04 ◼ ► tv remote and apparently brought them to the steering wheel it looks to me that it's just
01:46:07 ◼ ► a big featureless touch thing that you're going to brush your hand up against and accidentally
01:46:11 ◼ ► like move your seat or some crap it's like taking the physical controls off of the steering wheel to
01:46:16 ◼ ► just have a smooth black surface some tiny white glyphs on it that i guess are capacitive touch or
01:46:22 ◼ ► maybe like you can't tell because it's just a picture but like i'm having all the wrong feelings
01:46:27 ◼ ► about the total apparent total removal of any kind of physical controls because physical controls are
01:46:32 ◼ ► great because you can feel for them and you can know what position they're in and they're
01:46:35 ◼ ► satisfying to move and change and they should not be removed from car interiors entirely
01:46:40 ◼ ► yeah and and ultimately like the current model s and x have a surprising like before i got the car
01:46:47 ◼ ► i was afraid it would be like too much is on the touch screen but there are a surprising amount of
01:46:51 ◼ ► physical controls on and around the steering wheel and and that's where most of my interaction takes
01:46:56 ◼ ► place any adjustment for audio stuff um that uh any like cruise control or like you know the auto
01:47:03 ◼ ► steer adjustments that's all on the wheel even the sunroof map to the the dial on the right you can
01:47:08 ◼ ► map the different things like oh that's cool yeah and so like although i have no idea how they they
01:47:13 ◼ ► did it during like the walkthrough they they did it for me and i have no idea how to ever change
01:47:17 ◼ ► that um but anyway so because i don't read the manual casey um i don't even know if there is one
01:47:23 ◼ ► i think it's all electronic anyway so like the model s has has a good deal of physical controls
01:47:31 ◼ ► for the most frequently used things and and i haven't driven a three yet but i know one of the
01:47:35 ◼ ► big complaints about it was that the um the the adjustment to the current cruise control speed
01:47:43 ◼ ► in the model 3 has to be done by the touch screen because it doesn't have that apparently doesn't
01:47:48 ◼ ► have that extra stalk uh below on the bottom left of the wheel that the s and x do that allow you to
01:47:54 ◼ ► quickly and easily adjust the set speed of the cruise control and that's something i do all the
01:47:58 ◼ ► time like i i do that all the time while driving i will raise the speed lower the speed based on like
01:48:05 ◼ ► oh i'm in a construction zone on the highway i got to slow down and then oh now i'm in a 65
01:48:08 ◼ ► zone i got to speed up and or or you know i just you know weather permitting or conditions
01:48:13 ◼ ► permitting i want to adjust this by a couple miles per hour up or down um and so that the lack of
01:48:19 ◼ ► that on the model 3 scares me and these pictures aren't clear enough or or you know they're also
01:48:24 ◼ ► not final they're just sketches so who knows and and the fact that the wheel appears to have
01:48:28 ◼ ► capacitive touch buttons i wouldn't put any faith in that i think that that's probably just like you
01:48:32 ◼ ► know artist mock-up taking artist liberties but anyway point is i i'm very happy with the amount
01:48:39 ◼ ► of physical controls that the s has and i don't want those to be reduced um i also am totally fine
01:48:46 ◼ ► having the critical information of like my speed and stuff being in front of me and not a little
01:48:52 ◼ ► bit to my right now this does appear that it has like a little tiny display that will still be
01:48:57 ◼ ► visible or something i don't know i'm not it's not entirely clear like it looks like they there is
01:49:02 ◼ ► like still something tiny in the dash but anyway um yeah so i don't love this now that being said
01:49:08 ◼ ► i don't think this is going to be a problem for me for the near future because my lease is up in
01:49:15 ◼ ► april and this is allegedly not rolling out until like well later in the year or even the next year
01:49:21 ◼ ► i don't think this update to the interior will be in my next car because i think my next car will
01:49:26 ◼ ► happen sooner than this update is likely to hit the market that being said i'm kind of glad about
01:49:32 ◼ ► that because i'm i'm really happy with the current interior of the model s i'm so happy with the
01:49:37 ◼ ► model s in general that i don't really want it to change radically right now like maybe this will be
01:49:42 ◼ ► better that's cool but i'm happy enough with the current one and i'm wary enough about this one
01:49:48 ◼ ► based on the model 3 that yeah i kind of i i kind of not i'm in no rush to get this one did i not
01:49:55 ◼ ► talk to you guys about the fact that i drove a model 3 it was a while ago right it wasn't it was
01:50:00 ◼ ► in may and a listener uh dave g was kind enough to uh swing by richmond as he was going between
01:50:08 ◼ ► new york and florida and he and i met up for like an hour maybe two tops and and i drove his model
01:50:14 ◼ ► three and it was a very nice car and i liked it quite a bit but not having an instrument cluster
01:50:22 ◼ ► i did not care for i'm sure i could get used to it but i think it would be one of those things that i
01:50:28 ◼ ► tolerated rather than one of those things that truly and utterly went away does that make sense
01:50:34 ◼ ► you know it would always kind of be ugh but it would be okay and i do not think moving the s
01:50:45 ◼ ► in this direction is a smart choice i think it in fact sitting here now if i were marco and if
01:50:52 ◼ ► if if the choice was you know to to have an s without an instrument cluster or just say
01:50:58 ◼ ► buy out the one that you have already even with the three-year-old batteries i'd buy the one i
01:51:03 ◼ ► had today because i would not want a car without an instrument cluster just seems wrong to me and
01:51:08 ◼ ► maybe that's me just being an old man i don't know but i do not dig it yeah i mean the thing and by
01:51:12 ◼ ► the way i have considered buying it out i i i'm probably not going to go that route if i can get
01:51:17 ◼ ► like the kind i like again for a decent price simply because i a i i i don't want to take the
01:51:24 ◼ ► financial risk of what the heck this car's reset value will be in five years or whatever
01:51:29 ◼ ► and and b you know what if the company actually does go bankrupt they probably won't you know
01:51:36 ◼ ► that's usually bs and reporting everything but if the company actually goes under i don't want to be
01:51:40 ◼ ► stuck owning their vehicle that needs service ongoing forever and then that kills the resale
01:51:48 ◼ ► really want to take but buying it out it has crossed my mind because i like it a lot i have
01:51:53 ◼ ► there's nothing wrong with it you know that i i don't i'm not like dying to get rid of it and when
01:51:58 ◼ ► i replace it i'm probably going to replace it with pretty much the exact same thing so like i'm going
01:52:02 ◼ ► to make very few changes to whatever i get so uh you know i don't really it feels kind of wasteful
01:52:08 ◼ ► to get the same thing again but you know the benefit of leasing is avoiding all those risks
01:52:12 ◼ ► that i was talking about a second ago so that's kind of my goal here but also like you know i
01:52:16 ◼ ► you look at what they're what they're doing here and and they they the goal of this redesign would
01:52:22 ◼ ► allegedly be for for two main reasons number one would be cost saving measures so they can use a
01:52:28 ◼ ► lot more of the same parts between the model 3 and the model s the model x and to me like i don't
01:52:34 ◼ ► like those parts like that that solves your problem not my problem that's my problem is i want a nice
01:52:40 ◼ ► car and i don't care whether your parts are shared between your vehicles or not that's your problem
01:52:45 ◼ ► that's your economics to deal with um and the second reason given is that this is to focus on
01:52:52 ◼ ► autonomous driving and that's wonderful when we get to that world this kind of cockpit will be
01:52:59 ◼ ► great this kind of car design you can go even crazier than this when we actually have autonomous
01:53:03 ◼ ► driving we don't have that yet i have a feeling we're not going to have that next year either
01:53:08 ◼ ► and so i'm going to have this car at a time when i'm going to be driving it and if i'm driving it
01:53:14 ◼ ► and not you computer driving it i want it to look nice for me and to accommodate me the human driver
01:53:21 ◼ ► because i'm still necessary and until that changes it should accommodate me yeah they've they've uh
01:53:27 ◼ ► it's kind of sad to me that they've taken a bunch of good ideas about how a car interiors could be
01:53:31 ◼ ► better right particularly leaning heavily on the touchscreen which is you know a fairly obvious
01:53:39 ◼ ► and so on and so forth and they had a balance between knobs and levers and stuff and screens
01:53:46 ◼ ► on s and then they went more extreme in the three i just feel like like it's almost like a johnny
01:53:52 ◼ ► iv thing where it's just they're now pursuing it to its to its absurd conclusion right and they
01:53:57 ◼ ► shouldn't they should use each thing for its strengths like i mean you know the the absurd
01:54:02 ◼ ► conclusion is like why do you why do you have pedals why can't that be on the touchscreen too
01:54:05 ◼ ► like what you know and like and that sounds ridiculous and you they would explain to you
01:54:10 ◼ ► well it's a safety issue and it just feels better works better or people are better able to modulate
01:54:15 ◼ ► their legs or their know how to drive all those things are true of things like turn signals and
01:54:19 ◼ ► also buttons and knobs for less important functions now the steering wheel is still physical the pedals
01:54:24 ◼ ► are still physical the stocks are still physical but right up until that point they say but let's
01:54:29 ◼ ► have like literally nothing else be physical because everything is capacitive and it's just
01:54:32 ◼ ► that's a bad that's a bad trade-off that's a bad design for the exact same reason that the steering
01:54:37 ◼ ► wheel and pedals like so they're they're moving the line like as far as they can seemingly in
01:54:42 ◼ ► well there's two two possible motivations one is the the misguided sort of pursuing of your vision
01:54:47 ◼ ► to its logical and absurd conclusion right how far can we go right i mean i'm not almost surprised
01:54:53 ◼ ► that the steering wheel doesn't look like the one in kit now and speaking of kit the second the
01:54:57 ◼ ► second reason i think we talked about this in neutral is and this is actually a reason i could
01:55:01 ◼ ► justify in in some ways i just wish they found a different outlet is part of the appeal of tesla
01:55:07 ◼ ► and electric cars in general is that people want to feel like they're buying a futuristic car
01:55:11 ◼ ► so you need features of the car that are worse from a usability and reliability perspective
01:55:16 ◼ ► but they make people feel like they're cool i wouldn't say they're whimsical but i would say
01:55:20 ◼ ► that they they feel futuristic and if the door handle is popping out on the model s for a great
01:55:26 ◼ ► example the falcon wing doors are an example that tremendously increases the appeal of their products
01:55:32 ◼ ► even though it basically makes them worse because if they feel cool to people they impress strangers
01:55:37 ◼ ► like they're it makes you feel like i'm not just buying a car that's a regular car but it happens
01:55:41 ◼ ► to have an electric motor in it it is a futuristic cool car and this kind of dash treatment fulfills
01:55:47 ◼ ► that like they they had to go away from the the pop-out handles because it's just you know too
01:55:51 ◼ ► annoying so on the three they have a thing where you pop out the handle by pushing your stupid
01:55:55 ◼ ► little finger into this thing and it and you know it hinges out as opposed to waiting for the thing
01:55:59 ◼ ► to pop out with you from the motor right so it seems like they have like a displaced need to