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246: I Just Want My Stories

 

00:00:00 ◼   ► Oh, God, I can't imagine having to put a key in a steering column. Oh, gross.

00:00:04 ◼   ► Like an animal.

00:00:05 ◼   ► It's fun. Twisting the key is fun. Yeah.

00:00:08 ◼   ► Oh, John, how do you live, man?

00:00:10 ◼   ► Get in, foot down on the clutch, foot on the brake, twist the key. That motion is still,

00:00:15 ◼   ► you know, it's a thing.

00:00:16 ◼   ► You know what's even better than that? Get in, push the gas.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm sure Tiff loves it when you just get out of her car and leave it rolling down the driveway.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Put the engine with the engine running.

00:00:26 ◼   ► Running and unlocked.

00:00:27 ◼   ► - Running and unlocked.

00:00:27 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:28 ◼   ► - Running and unlocked.

00:00:30 ◼   ► - All the windows open, air conditioning on, radio blaring.

00:00:34 ◼   ► - The sick thing is you're probably serious.

00:00:36 ◼   ► I bet this has happened at least once.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - I have not left it like in gear rolling,

00:00:40 ◼   ► but I have left his car running and unlocked.

00:00:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:44 ◼   ► - Good God.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Oh man, you're so spoiled.

00:00:48 ◼   ► (electronic beeping)

00:00:50 ◼   ► All right, so let's start the show

00:00:52 ◼   ► and we'll start with some neutral follow-up.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Apparently people pay attention to racing cars and people pay attention to Formula One. I'm not really clear why and

00:01:02 ◼   ► Apparently, please please write Marco

00:01:06 ◼   ► apparently

00:01:08 ◼   ► Pretty much every racing car has its paddles on the wheel

00:01:11 ◼   ► I was lamenting last week that the Alfa Romeo had its paddles on the column which I've heard other like car reviewers

00:01:19 ◼   ► And in people like that say oh it always has to be on the column

00:01:23 ◼   ► But I don't really understand why, because I didn't like it that way, and I had at the

00:01:27 ◼   ► same time a BMW loaner, an F30 loaner, and that had the paddles on the wheel, and I much

00:01:34 ◼   ► preferred that.

00:01:35 ◼   ► So anyway, a lot of people wrote in to say, "Pretty much every racing car has the paddles

00:01:40 ◼   ► on the wheel.

00:01:41 ◼   ► You are right.

00:01:42 ◼   ► That's where it should be."

00:01:44 ◼   ► And somebody, and I don't remember who this was, I apologize, but somebody said to me,

00:01:48 ◼   ► and this is just a theory, but I mean it makes sense to me, "Maybe it's less of a big deal

00:01:51 ◼   ► for race car drivers because their wheels don't typically do like an entire revolution. If you

00:01:56 ◼   ► think about it, they're typically doing maybe a 30 or 60 or maybe a 90 degree turn, but I would

00:02:02 ◼   ► assume not often, not much more than that. If I'm wrong, I don't really care. It was just a thought

00:02:08 ◼   ► exercise. So no big deal, but I just thought I'd cover that really quickly. I did have to-

00:02:12 ◼   ► **Matt Stauffer** A lot of the responses related to this were due to me musing about what F1 cars

00:02:17 ◼   ► might be and knowing nothing about F1. And I had a brain fart there. That was my bad. I was like,

00:02:20 ◼   ► Like F1 cars, they don't even use paddles because they got all those buttons on the

00:02:24 ◼   ► steering wheel.

00:02:25 ◼   ► And while there is very often a button to shift into neutral, they still use paddles

00:02:29 ◼   ► for everything.

00:02:30 ◼   ► So never mind on that.

00:02:33 ◼   ► I did have to give the Alfa Romeo back.

00:02:34 ◼   ► I was very, very sad.

00:02:36 ◼   ► It pulled away and I wept.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Not really, but I was sad.

00:02:41 ◼   ► And now I'm back to my BMW.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Life is rough, I tell you.

00:02:44 ◼   ► God, I sound like such an intolerable piece of crap.

00:02:46 ◼   ► All right, moving on.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Let's, oh, actually it's getting no better as it turns out.

00:02:50 ◼   ► Let's talk about our iPhone orders and our $1,000 phones.

00:02:53 ◼   ► I quit.

00:02:54 ◼   ► This is just going nowhere good.

00:02:56 ◼   ► - So I think one of the biggest things that we have learned

00:03:00 ◼   ► in this entire iPhone 10 cycle

00:03:03 ◼   ► is that the rumor mill is completely full of now.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Like it's complete all of it.

00:03:11 ◼   ► It's turned out so much of it was complete.

00:03:15 ◼   ► (phone chimes)

00:03:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, and we were complicit,

00:03:18 ◼   ► or at least I'll speak for myself.

00:03:19 ◼   ► I was complicit in it because I was probably the most worried of the three of us about

00:03:24 ◼   ► not getting a phone until 2020.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And I was freaking out about it for no reason.

00:03:29 ◼   ► Well, as it turns out, spoiler alert, no reason.

00:03:33 ◼   ► But yeah, I was just as deep in this as anyone else, if not more so.

00:03:37 ◼   ► And I don't know, I was trying to like do a retrospective, which is a word that you

00:03:41 ◼   ► don't really understand, Marco, but John will.

00:03:44 ◼   ► I was trying to have my own little one-man retro meeting.

00:03:46 ◼   ► meeting. I believe it's called a post-mortem in the parking lot. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, so you do know.

00:03:50 ◼   ► So anyway, so I was tossing things into the parking lot as I was having my one-person

00:03:56 ◼   ► retro, and I don't really know specifically where this notion came from. I mean, I was one of the

00:04:03 ◼   ► ones parroting it, so I'm guilty. I am 150% guilty, but where did we all get it in our brains? This is

00:04:10 ◼   ► not just the three of us. This is the royal us. Where did all the talking heads get it in their

00:04:14 ◼   ► brains that it was going to be this bad. Like where did this come from?

00:04:18 ◼   ► Well, I mean, the phone is supply constrained and people had guesses about how many they

00:04:22 ◼   ► were going to make and there were lots of stories about part shortages. So that's

00:04:27 ◼   ► what it was. It was basically like, "Oh, they can't make enough of those 3D dot thingies."

00:04:30 ◼   ► And supposedly they lowered their standards for the dot thingies to make more of them.

00:04:34 ◼   ► But then Apple said, "No, we didn't do that. That's BS." I mean, at this point,

00:04:38 ◼   ► the past few cycles, you have to imagine that a lot of those stories about Apple's manufacturing

00:04:44 ◼   ► problems and blah blah blah are things motivated or not planted by competitors but like that

00:04:51 ◼   ► they're that they're motivated stories that somebody wants to put that information out

00:04:55 ◼   ► there to sow doubt into Apple's situation. Now they you know they don't have enough iPhone

00:05:02 ◼   ► tends to go around just like they don't have enough of any they don't have enough iPhone

00:05:06 ◼   ► you know sevens to go around certainly not the jet black there's always shortages right

00:05:10 ◼   ► It's very difficult to tell until Apple starts reporting numbers exactly how big the shortage

00:05:15 ◼   ► was.

00:05:16 ◼   ► But last show, all we were talking about was, "Will we be able to get our phones?"

00:05:20 ◼   ► Forget about how many Apple sells and so on and so forth, although we did touch on that

00:05:23 ◼   ► briefly.

00:05:24 ◼   ► But everything was just estimates.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Like that one newspaper or whatever said it looks like they're going to have four times

00:05:29 ◼   ► fewer phones as in previous years.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Well, we'll find out when Apple reports how many iPhones did they sell between launch

00:05:38 ◼   ► and the end of the year, although they have a fiscal year, I don't know how this all works.

00:05:41 ◼   ► But anyway, we'll find out. And it could be that the numbers are dead on, really. They

00:05:47 ◼   ► sold one-fourth as many as they did last year. But that's not what we're talking about here.

00:05:51 ◼   ► What we're talking about here is we were all staying up till 3 a.m. to order phones, and

00:05:55 ◼   ► some of us were very, very pessimistic about getting a phone anytime soon. So how did it

00:06:00 ◼   ► go for everybody, assuming we all stayed up?

00:06:03 ◼   ► I think it's pretty safe to say that Marco and I did, and since I've got the mic, I will

00:06:08 ◼   ► say that I stayed up.

00:06:10 ◼   ► My experience was slightly worse than the watch, than the LTE watch.

00:06:15 ◼   ► My experience with the LTE watch was stunningly good.

00:06:17 ◼   ► It was, the Apple Store app was live at 3.01 or something like that.

00:06:21 ◼   ► I was in and out in no time.

00:06:23 ◼   ► In this instance, it was typical Apple, which is to say five to ten minutes late.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Now, in the defense of Apple, maybe that's an aggregation issue or something to do with CDNs.

00:06:35 ◼   ► I'm now outside of my comfort zone. But one way or another, it was like 305-ish that everything woke

00:06:42 ◼   ► up. I did use the Apple Store app, and surprisingly, I heard a fair bit of reports from like Twitter and

00:06:48 ◼   ► whatnot that the Apple Store app was not the pretty much flawless experience for everyone

00:06:52 ◼   ► that it had been for the last few years. I had a few people say that they actually had better luck

00:06:56 ◼   ► on the website, which is stunning, because anytime I've tried that it's been a disaster.

00:07:01 ◼   ► But anyway, about 3.05 I ordered my phone, and then I rolled over and ordered Aaron's

00:07:07 ◼   ► phone and got both of them, and they should be here Friday.

00:07:11 ◼   ► So it worked out really, really well for me, to a degree that I did not expect.

00:07:16 ◼   ► I did choose to ship to home.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I was thinking about doing a store pickup, which I've never done before, and I know would

00:07:23 ◼   ► get me my phone earlier in the day, because typically UPS doesn't get to us until like

00:07:26 ◼   ► five or six at night on iPhone day, but I was scared that just going through that whole

00:07:31 ◼   ► process, especially when I'm unfamiliar with it, would slow me down too much and I would

00:07:35 ◼   ► lose my chance. So both of them will be delivered to the house sometime Friday. So I'm working

00:07:41 ◼   ► from home Friday, if you happen to be listening to this from my job. I will be here at the

00:07:45 ◼   ► house making sure that I know.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I'm sick.

00:07:48 ◼   ► No, I mean, everyone knows exactly what's happening. Marco, how did it fare for you?

00:07:54 ◼   ► similar. I used the app as usual. The app didn't come up for me until like, you

00:08:00 ◼   ► know, 305 or 306 like it was way and like I was in some slacks were like

00:08:04 ◼   ► some people are already completing the entire orders and reporting back what

00:08:07 ◼   ► their dates were when they completed the order before my store was even up. But

00:08:10 ◼   ► that happens all the time. I mean the Apple ordering process with the iPhones

00:08:14 ◼   ► has gotten really, really good with just that one exception. The only part about

00:08:20 ◼   ► about it that really feels unfair is that there's a huge

00:08:24 ◼   ► variance in when people's stores come up and it could be

00:08:28 ◼   ► like fifteen minutes apart like it's a big variance and so

00:08:32 ◼   ► some people said they saw the store like at two fifty eight

00:08:35 ◼   ► so and some people didn't see the store until three ten and

00:08:38 ◼   ► like it's a huge range. Usually I fall on the on the

00:08:41 ◼   ► worst side of this range like usually for me it's it's

00:08:44 ◼   ► somewhere around like five five or six minutes after the

00:08:46 ◼   ► an hour. And you can try alternating between cellular and Wi-Fi to be on different networks.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Some people suggested even trying a VPN. I didn't get that far into it. I didn't think

00:08:57 ◼   ► about it at three in the morning, surprisingly. But it just seems like it's a total crapshoot

00:09:04 ◼   ► when your store will come up. And that makes a pretty big difference in whether you get

00:09:09 ◼   ► one on day one or not, usually. If yours comes up at 3.07, you're probably not getting day

00:09:15 ◼   ► day one delivery on most high profile products.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Same thing happened with the watch.

00:09:21 ◼   ► Any kind of high profile 3 a.m. Apple launch,

00:09:23 ◼   ► usually this is a problem.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Jet black phone, same problem.

00:09:26 ◼   ► So the whole rest of the system feels very good

00:09:29 ◼   ► and very fair and it has dramatically improved

00:09:32 ◼   ► over the last few years.

00:09:33 ◼   ► And it's just that one piece that feels,

00:09:36 ◼   ► like if you're on the bad end of that,

00:09:37 ◼   ► it feels like you're getting screwed for no reason.

00:09:39 ◼   ► So I hope Apple can figure out a way to improve that.

00:09:42 ◼   ► I've never done anything on their scale before,

00:09:46 ◼   ► but I have done high-scale things.

00:09:47 ◼   ► It is possible to make everything go up

00:09:49 ◼   ► at almost exactly the same time.

00:09:53 ◼   ► That is a thing that can happen on the internet.

00:09:54 ◼   ► It's not easy, but it's possible.

00:09:57 ◼   ► So if they prioritize that,

00:09:59 ◼   ► maybe they don't realize how annoying this is,

00:10:01 ◼   ► but I hope someone, I hope whoever at Apple

00:10:03 ◼   ► cares a lot about these things, about getting these right,

00:10:06 ◼   ► about building into systems like the thing

00:10:08 ◼   ► where if it can't contact the carrier,

00:10:09 ◼   ► it reserves it for you and emails you again tomorrow.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Like, a lot of thought has gone into that system,

00:10:15 ◼   ► and for the most part it's great.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And there's just this one big glaring problem with it

00:10:19 ◼   ► that I hope they can figure out a way to fix,

00:10:21 ◼   ► or at least reduce that variance in CDN availability,

00:10:25 ◼   ► so that like, maybe everyone's store comes up

00:10:27 ◼   ► in the same one minute instead of the same 15 minutes.

00:10:29 ◼   ► That's the only thing about the system that feels unfair.

00:10:32 ◼   ► A lot of it's competitive, a lot of it's cutthroat,

00:10:34 ◼   ► but all of it feels fair, except that.

00:10:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would agree with that.

00:10:39 ◼   ► I can't think of any particular way that they could do better with it. I mean, I guess maybe

00:10:46 ◼   ► a lottery, but I think just like we lamented when WWDC went to a lottery, I think there's something

00:10:53 ◼   ► to be said for having the dedication to wake up at three in the morning if you're on the East Coast

00:11:00 ◼   ► to actually ensure that you get one initially. In the same way, WWDC rewarded the people who had

00:11:07 ◼   ► seven different notification strategies

00:11:09 ◼   ► in order to know when tickets went on sale.

00:11:11 ◼   ► And maybe a more fair answer would be a lottery,

00:11:14 ◼   ► but if not that, I think you're right,

00:11:17 ◼   ► that this is as fair as it can get

00:11:19 ◼   ► with the CDN propagation issues notwithstanding.

00:11:23 ◼   ► - And the thing is, a lottery,

00:11:24 ◼   ► like a few people have said that,

00:11:25 ◼   ► I think it's such a more complicated thing

00:11:28 ◼   ► than WBC tickets.

00:11:29 ◼   ► First of all, you're talking about

00:11:31 ◼   ► allocating 5,000 conference tickets

00:11:33 ◼   ► versus 10 million phones.

00:11:36 ◼   ► There's a pretty big difference in scale.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And of course the phones are tied to carrier things

00:11:41 ◼   ► and have to be checked out with carriers.

00:11:43 ◼   ► The phones are way more complicated than WBC

00:11:45 ◼   ► and there's way more of them.

00:11:46 ◼   ► So the same system doesn't necessarily apply.

00:11:49 ◼   ► Again, I think the system they have, I agree with you.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I think it's fine.

00:11:52 ◼   ► They just need to fix that one thing.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Anyway, so all that being said,

00:11:56 ◼   ► I did wake up at three in the morning.

00:11:58 ◼   ► I did place an order successfully

00:11:59 ◼   ► for my iPhone 10 on day one delivery.

00:12:03 ◼   ► I didn't do store pickup, just a delivery.

00:12:05 ◼   ► The store pickup is fine, but you still have to wait

00:12:08 ◼   ► in such a long line for pickup on day one.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Like if you're not day one and you do pick up at the store,

00:12:14 ◼   ► it's much faster, you know, there's basically no line

00:12:16 ◼   ► or a very short one.

00:12:17 ◼   ► But on day one, you're waiting on line

00:12:19 ◼   ► just like everyone else, you're just waiting on like

00:12:21 ◼   ► a different roped off section of the line

00:12:23 ◼   ► if you have reservations, but you're still gonna be there

00:12:26 ◼   ► for like two hours, you know.

00:12:27 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to it.

00:12:28 ◼   ► Anyway, just to conclude the room mill thing

00:12:30 ◼   ► before we leave this topic, in general,

00:12:32 ◼   ► The room mill has gotten so much wrong

00:12:35 ◼   ► since about a year ago or so when there was a rumor

00:12:39 ◼   ► going around that one of Mark Gurman's big sources

00:12:43 ◼   ► was escorted out of campus very publicly.

00:12:47 ◼   ► I don't know if that was true or not,

00:12:49 ◼   ► but it certainly does seem like there's not a lot of leaks

00:12:53 ◼   ► out of Apple anymore.

00:12:55 ◼   ► By far, the most credible information we got

00:12:59 ◼   ► about the iPhone X leaked out of Apple itself.

00:13:02 ◼   ► in their two software leaks.

00:13:04 ◼   ► It didn't leak out of anywhere else.

00:13:06 ◼   ► Like the rumor mill was basically empty.

00:13:10 ◼   ► All they were doing for the most part

00:13:12 ◼   ► was reporting on what Apple accidentally leaked.

00:13:16 ◼   ► Almost everything else they reported ended up being BS.

00:13:19 ◼   ► Like now as we're getting more information about the phone,

00:13:22 ◼   ► people are using the phone,

00:13:23 ◼   ► we're hearing more from Apple executives

00:13:25 ◼   ► like on the record stories and stuff,

00:13:27 ◼   ► it certainly seems like the entire

00:13:28 ◼   ► like touch ID under the glass thing was completely false.

00:13:31 ◼   ► that there are now multiple Apple executives

00:13:33 ◼   ► directly stating that in interviews.

00:13:35 ◼   ► And I'm inclined to believe them.

00:13:36 ◼   ► I don't think they would lie about that kind of thing.

00:13:38 ◼   ► I think that it wouldn't serve them at all to lie about that.

00:13:40 ◼   ► We're now hearing things like the face ID

00:13:44 ◼   ► having issues and everything.

00:13:46 ◼   ► Those are probably BS too.

00:13:47 ◼   ► The component thing having adjustments,

00:13:49 ◼   ► Apple directly called that out and denied it,

00:13:52 ◼   ► which they never do for things like that.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Like that's unprecedented for the most part.

00:13:56 ◼   ► So that also I'm inclined to believe

00:13:58 ◼   ► because they so rarely ever comment

00:14:00 ◼   ► and things like that publicly.

00:14:01 ◼   ► So like, that was probably BS.

00:14:03 ◼   ► It seems like anything that was about supply

00:14:06 ◼   ► being super short was probably BS too,

00:14:10 ◼   ► because here's the thing, right now,

00:14:12 ◼   ► so everyone, us, other podcasters,

00:14:15 ◼   ► tech podcasters, the rumor sites,

00:14:17 ◼   ► we were all expecting this to be

00:14:18 ◼   ► a massive backorder situation.

00:14:21 ◼   ► We were saying on the show, like, you know,

00:14:23 ◼   ► 2018 isn't that far away.

00:14:25 ◼   ► We were all saying like, we would be lucky

00:14:27 ◼   ► to get, waking up at 3 a.m.,

00:14:30 ◼   ► we'd be lucky to get it by December.

00:14:32 ◼   ► And then it won't be too long before it's 2018.

00:14:35 ◼   ► Well guess what?

00:14:36 ◼   ► Right now, today, as we record almost a week later,

00:14:39 ◼   ► the latest estimates say five to six weeks.

00:14:42 ◼   ► That's mid-December.

00:14:43 ◼   ► A week later, you can still order it

00:14:46 ◼   ► and have it come this year,

00:14:47 ◼   ► 'cause then this year's almost over.

00:14:49 ◼   ► So that's pretty good.

00:14:51 ◼   ► So one of two things is true.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Either there is way less demand for this phone

00:14:57 ◼   ► than anybody thought, which I think is pretty unlikely.

00:15:00 ◼   ► Or most of those reports about there being

00:15:03 ◼   ► incredibly short supplies and everything are wrong.

00:15:06 ◼   ► So that just adds even more to the pile of rumors

00:15:10 ◼   ► that were wrong about the iPhone X.

00:15:11 ◼   ► Like we heard so many.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Everything about the software we heard was wrong.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Like everything about the home indicator situation,

00:15:19 ◼   ► the home gesture, that was all wrong.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Like we heard so much wrong stuff about the iPhone X.

00:15:25 ◼   ► Really, this has been a bad year for the Apple rumor game.

00:15:30 ◼   ► And in some ways, it's kind of like, you know,

00:15:32 ◼   ► Good Riddance, it was getting a little bit too good.

00:15:34 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:15:35 ◼   ► It was getting, it was starting to get

00:15:36 ◼   ► like a little too spoilery on a lot of the new products.

00:15:39 ◼   ► You know, I'm saying this here, not only to call them out,

00:15:44 ◼   ► but also to kind of help the world help me remind myself

00:15:49 ◼   ► when I get caught up in talking about these rumors,

00:15:52 ◼   ► 'cause I too, like you said Casey,

00:15:53 ◼   ► I too have been totally complicit

00:15:54 ◼   ► in discussing these rumors as if they were almost

00:15:57 ◼   ► a sure thing or if they were a sure thing

00:15:58 ◼   ► because for so long, the rumors were that good.

00:16:01 ◼   ► Like for so long in like the heyday of Mark Gurman

00:16:03 ◼   ► like two years ago, they actually,

00:16:06 ◼   ► like they were getting every detail of every product.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Like they were nailing so much before the release.

00:16:13 ◼   ► It was actually really unfun.

00:16:15 ◼   ► It was like, it was kind of fun to be a commentator

00:16:17 ◼   ► but it was unfun to like watch the events

00:16:19 ◼   ► and just see them unveil the things

00:16:21 ◼   ► that you already knew about like two months ago

00:16:23 ◼   ► great detail, no less.

00:16:25 ◼   ► But we all, all of us commentators and Apple fans

00:16:28 ◼   ► and readers of these sites and followers of the Apple news,

00:16:32 ◼   ► we all have to now readjust from that time

00:16:36 ◼   ► that now we have to probably assume

00:16:39 ◼   ► that most of the rumors that we're hearing are wrong

00:16:41 ◼   ► rather than assuming that they're right

00:16:43 ◼   ► and then figuring out later that some of them are wrong.

00:16:45 ◼   ► - Let me do the opposite of helping you, Marco,

00:16:47 ◼   ► and say once again that I generally disagree

00:16:49 ◼   ► with your assessment that the rumor was off.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Before Apple's leaks, we knew all screen OLED phone with Face ID.

00:16:59 ◼   ► Face ID leaked.

00:17:00 ◼   ► Face ID leaked so early before any software leaks.

00:17:04 ◼   ► And yes, there were tons of reports about details that were wrong.

00:17:07 ◼   ► And yes, Apple's exec said, you know, we committed to Face ID

00:17:10 ◼   ► and we never really spent any time trying

00:17:12 ◼   ► to do under the screen or aside things and stuff like that.

00:17:15 ◼   ► That's all well and good, right?

00:17:16 ◼   ► But there's always a certain amount of noise.

00:17:18 ◼   ► So even before Apple software leaks, which were massive

00:17:20 ◼   ► and gave us huge amounts of totally verified

00:17:23 ◼   ► reelsie reel information.

00:17:25 ◼   ► Even before that, we knew almost everything

00:17:28 ◼   ► about this phone.

00:17:29 ◼   ► What it looked like, the shape,

00:17:30 ◼   ► the size down to the millimeter,

00:17:32 ◼   ► the orientation of the cameras,

00:17:33 ◼   ► how many cameras there would be,

00:17:34 ◼   ► the fact that it would be all screen,

00:17:35 ◼   ► the fact that the screen was OLED,

00:17:36 ◼   ► the fact that it would detect your face

00:17:37 ◼   ► and that's how you would unlock it.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Everything else is details.

00:17:40 ◼   ► I think that still for these phone products,

00:17:43 ◼   ► it is impossible so far for Apple

00:17:45 ◼   ► to actually keep anything like this secret.

00:17:47 ◼   ► There was a lot of BS and misinformation,

00:17:50 ◼   ► especially the stories and we've said this at the time we were discussing them where they're like apples considering like

00:17:55 ◼   ► You know using whether it's going to have face ID under there

00:17:58 ◼   ► It was like a month before or it was got touch idea on the screen

00:18:00 ◼   ► It was like a month before the the an intro announcement

00:18:03 ◼   ► It's like they're like displaced in time where maybe this was true a year and a half ago

00:18:08 ◼   ► We're just hearing about it now, but always the rumors especially on

00:18:11 ◼   ► A lot of the rumor sites are phrases if it's happening now and it's nonsensical like I mean, who is it?

00:18:18 ◼   ► Dan is his name? Dan Ricchio? I don't know how to pronounce his name. Something like that.

00:18:21 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure you're right on the Dan part. It's Ricchio, I think?

00:18:24 ◼   ► Yeah. One of Apple's people was in a press thing and he said that they had locked the design for

00:18:31 ◼   ► the iPhone X in November. That's November of last year, right? Not now, November 1st.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Not today.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Yeah. They had locked it a year ago, right? And yet there were rumor stories like two months ago

00:18:43 ◼   ► that Apple's debating what it should do with Face ID versus Touch ID under the screen. And I'm like,

00:18:47 ◼   ► No, what do you know they're not like I mean that so we knew those were BS at the time

00:18:52 ◼   ► But I still think that the combination of the rumor mill knowing so much about this phone before any leaks and then the leaks

00:18:59 ◼   ► Basically putting highlighter over the details that are right and sort of Xing out the ones that are wrong

00:19:04 ◼   ► Means that we still more or less knew what was getting introduced and I'm you know one way

00:19:10 ◼   ► I kind of like being surprised but also kind of like hearing details so I can go either way but

00:19:15 ◼   ► Just because the rumors especially motivated rumors like Oh apples having manufacturing problems Oh fear uncertainty and doubt

00:19:21 ◼   ► Especially since things like that

00:19:23 ◼   ► There's reasons for them to exist and they're gonna be wrong over in a while

00:19:26 ◼   ► I don't think that's that big of a deal and I think I I I don't know

00:19:31 ◼   ► I'm I'm not adjusting my attitude towards rumors because I

00:19:34 ◼   ► Don't mind as a bunch of BS noise mixed in with the real information

00:19:37 ◼   ► And I still think there's a ton more real information than we used to have about things because this Apple makes too many of these

00:19:43 ◼   ► phones, the supply chain is too leaky, and we're just going to have to accept that we're

00:19:49 ◼   ► more or less going to know what the next phone is going to be like, and that all we have

00:19:53 ◼   ► to worry about are the details, and then sometimes, like a few weeks before intro, Apple tells

00:19:57 ◼   ► us all the details accidentally by releasing a bunch of software.

00:20:00 ◼   ► No, I mean, I think, you know, we did hear a lot of rumors that ended up being true,

00:20:05 ◼   ► but the thing, but like, with the rumor mill, like, the challenge is always like, knowing

00:20:09 ◼   ► what parts of this are actually likely to be real or not.

00:20:11 ◼   ► And usually, during the really good days of rumor mills,

00:20:16 ◼   ► like two years ago, you could be sure

00:20:18 ◼   ► almost everything they said was actually true.

00:20:21 ◼   ► But until Apple's software leaks,

00:20:24 ◼   ► we didn't know whether the products would be

00:20:28 ◼   ► possibility A, B, C, or D, or many of the details of that.

00:20:31 ◼   ► - But we knew exactly what it would look like.

00:20:33 ◼   ► - Well, not really.

00:20:35 ◼   ► - I saved some of the images of,

00:20:37 ◼   ► down to the millimeter, you know,

00:20:40 ◼   ► when people were selling cases for it,

00:20:42 ◼   ► we knew what this thing would look like.

00:20:43 ◼   ► There were still questions like,

00:20:44 ◼   ► "I can't tell if it's Touch IDed into that screen,

00:20:45 ◼   ► can you?" Right?

00:20:46 ◼   ► And same with the Face ID, like that rumor was really long,

00:20:50 ◼   ► it took a really long time of coming,

00:20:51 ◼   ► but didn't really get confirmed until much later.

00:20:54 ◼   ► But what I'm saying is like, you know,

00:20:58 ◼   ► is this the next iPhone and they'd show you some 3D render?

00:21:01 ◼   ► Yeah, that was the next iPhone

00:21:03 ◼   ► and we knew it a long, long time ago.

00:21:04 ◼   ► Will it recognize your face?

00:21:05 ◼   ► That was the only credible rumor we had

00:21:07 ◼   ► other than various other places to put touch ID.

00:21:10 ◼   ► And so that was the only debate.

00:21:11 ◼   ► It's like, oh, surely it'll do the face thing,

00:21:13 ◼   ► but is it gonna have touch ID at all anymore

00:21:15 ◼   ► under the screen on the back?

00:21:16 ◼   ► Like that was a question,

00:21:17 ◼   ► but we knew like the face ID would be there.

00:21:20 ◼   ► So I feel like we had a really good picture of this phone

00:21:22 ◼   ► and it all turned out to be correct.

00:21:25 ◼   ► And the details that turned out to be wrong

00:21:27 ◼   ► were interesting, especially when we were discussing,

00:21:30 ◼   ► you know, touch ID in the back.

00:21:31 ◼   ► And the best one was the game of telephone rumor

00:21:34 ◼   ► about touch ID being on the home button.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Do you remember that rumor?

00:21:36 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:21:37 ◼   ► - Right, and that's explicable.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Now you see how it works,

00:21:40 ◼   ► because you have to double tap the power button

00:21:42 ◼   ► to make Apple Pay work,

00:21:44 ◼   ► and it puts that little highlight-y thing over it.

00:21:47 ◼   ► So somebody, like in this game of telephone,

00:21:49 ◼   ► knew about that, and through seven different people,

00:21:52 ◼   ► it becomes suddenly Touch ID and the power button,

00:21:54 ◼   ► which never really made any sense,

00:21:55 ◼   ► because it's not big enough.

00:21:56 ◼   ► But anyway, even things like that,

00:21:58 ◼   ► I love seeing after the fact,

00:21:59 ◼   ► oh, that's what they were confused about.

00:22:02 ◼   ► There was never Touch ID and the power button,

00:22:04 ◼   ► but somebody knew that piece of information,

00:22:06 ◼   ► and it got lost in translation,

00:22:09 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden this rumor came out of it.

00:22:10 ◼   ► So I think that's just par for the course of rumors.

00:22:13 ◼   ► - I don't know, I feel like the rumor mill was so sketchy.

00:22:17 ◼   ► And then around the time of the lost iPhone 4,

00:22:21 ◼   ► I think sources got really good.

00:22:23 ◼   ► And then in the last year or so,

00:22:25 ◼   ► like I think Marco had said,

00:22:27 ◼   ► sources have been not as good.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Because I feel like we knew,

00:22:33 ◼   ► even without software releases,

00:22:36 ◼   ► we knew exactly what this stuff would look like,

00:22:37 ◼   ► like to the pixel, so to speak.

00:22:39 ◼   ► I understand that's a terrible analogy,

00:22:40 ◼   ► but now if it wasn't for software releases,

00:22:43 ◼   ► we know the broad strokes, you're right, Jon,

00:22:45 ◼   ► but I don't think without the HomePod debacle,

00:22:49 ◼   ► we would have known as specifically as we have

00:22:52 ◼   ► in prior years, but I don't know.

00:22:53 ◼   ► - I don't think it's a broad strokes.

00:22:55 ◼   ► Like we didn't have,

00:22:56 ◼   ► if it wasn't for that phone left in a bar,

00:22:58 ◼   ► we wouldn't have known exactly what the iPhone 4 looked like

00:23:00 ◼   ► until somebody found one,

00:23:01 ◼   ► but we knew exactly what the iPhone 10 would look like.

00:23:04 ◼   ► maybe some service details we didn't know.

00:23:06 ◼   ► I feel like the iPhone 8, we didn't have

00:23:08 ◼   ► a really good grasp on service details, maybe.

00:23:10 ◼   ► But when you have millimeter perfect, you know,

00:23:15 ◼   ► measured drawings of the phone months ahead of time

00:23:18 ◼   ► that turn out to be 100% accurate,

00:23:19 ◼   ► so accurate that people could build cases based on them,

00:23:22 ◼   ► that is unprecedented.

00:23:23 ◼   ► We didn't have that for the iPhone 3GS, for the iPhone 4.

00:23:25 ◼   ► Like back then, you know, being left in a bar

00:23:28 ◼   ► was the only way we were gonna get that kind of thing, so.

00:23:30 ◼   ► - But there are so many, there's so much noise.

00:23:33 ◼   ► said John, like I feel like part of the Apple rumor game is always trying to figure out

00:23:38 ◼   ► like you know what what if this will actually because like everybody who you know floats

00:23:43 ◼   ► their head near Apple or is a is a you know friend of a nephew of a supplier or something

00:23:48 ◼   ► like everybody who was anywhere near Apple can leak something about what they think they

00:23:54 ◼   ► might be working on because they had one part made or they heard from a friend of a friend

00:23:59 ◼   ► of a friend who works at a factory or you know something like that there's always something

00:24:03 ◼   ► or even people on campus who leak,

00:24:06 ◼   ► people inside the company,

00:24:07 ◼   ► they can leak about things that they've seen

00:24:09 ◼   ► or heard about around campus.

00:24:11 ◼   ► But none of that has a strong correlation

00:24:13 ◼   ► to what actually gets released

00:24:15 ◼   ► and how things actually ship

00:24:16 ◼   ► and what the final version of things actually look like

00:24:18 ◼   ► or do or work.

00:24:19 ◼   ► So the challenge of the room reel has always been,

00:24:23 ◼   ► okay, you have all this information,

00:24:25 ◼   ► 10% of it is true,

00:24:27 ◼   ► but you don't know what 10% until the event.

00:24:29 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:24:30 ◼   ► And that part has reverted back to as bad as it used to be.

00:24:34 ◼   ► That part was better two years ago,

00:24:38 ◼   ► and that part is now back to where it was 10 years ago,

00:24:42 ◼   ► which is basically all over the place,

00:24:43 ◼   ► and not that useful.

00:24:45 ◼   ► So that's why I'm saying,

00:24:47 ◼   ► it's not that we won't have seen

00:24:50 ◼   ► many of the details ahead of time,

00:24:51 ◼   ► but we won't know which of the details we've seen are true,

00:24:54 ◼   ► and which will ship.

00:24:56 ◼   ► And that's the kind of thing

00:24:57 ◼   ► that used to leak a lot better than it does now,

00:24:59 ◼   ► and that's what I'm very happy about now.

00:25:01 ◼   ► But again, that's also what I need to now,

00:25:04 ◼   ► I need to now adjust myself to,

00:25:06 ◼   ► by default, disbelieve rumorsites,

00:25:09 ◼   ► rather than by default believing them

00:25:11 ◼   ► the way I've been doing the last two years.

00:25:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know if you wanna change your defaults,

00:25:15 ◼   ► but maybe just make it a setting.

00:25:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:25:19 ◼   ► On this front, I think the iPhone X

00:25:21 ◼   ► was actually a tricky case too,

00:25:23 ◼   ► because so much was changing.

00:25:25 ◼   ► We knew so much was changing with the iPhone X.

00:25:27 ◼   ► So with so much up for grabs,

00:25:28 ◼   ► there's less sort of bedrock that you can say,

00:25:31 ◼   ► well, it's an iPhone and these two minor things change.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Once you get rid of all the stuff on the front

00:25:37 ◼   ► and make it all screen,

00:25:38 ◼   ► there are many possibilities with how that can go,

00:25:40 ◼   ► especially before the software leaks.

00:25:42 ◼   ► That's why it was idea of like,

00:25:43 ◼   ► well, what happened to Touch ID?

00:25:44 ◼   ► Where does it go?

00:25:45 ◼   ► Is it on your screen?

00:25:46 ◼   ► Is it on the back?

00:25:47 ◼   ► Is it on the power button?

00:25:48 ◼   ► Because more things were up for grabs.

00:25:51 ◼   ► If this pretend that 10 doesn't exist

00:25:53 ◼   ► and this is just the eight,

00:25:55 ◼   ► there wouldn't have been a weird rumor about Touch ID being in the power button on the

00:25:59 ◼   ► 8, because they'd be like, well, Touch ID is where it always is. Like, look, there's

00:26:02 ◼   ► the phone. Like, you know, only a few things are changing. So the bigger the break from

00:26:07 ◼   ► the past, the more possibility is for random guesses and rumors and misheard things, because

00:26:13 ◼   ► just so much more seems possible, right? So you entertain it as a possibility, because,

00:26:17 ◼   ► you know, who knows what they'll do? And then, of course, the software leaks sort of, you

00:26:20 ◼   ► know, refine that all. But we'll see. Next, presumably, next phone, they will not have

00:26:25 ◼   ► have a catastrophic software leak like this and we'll get to play the game all the way

00:26:29 ◼   ► up to the end where we'll have, you know, it will be more constrained.

00:26:32 ◼   ► I bet there won't be such, you know, the one after the ten is not going to be as radical

00:26:36 ◼   ► a departure as the ten is from the seven, right?

00:26:39 ◼   ► And we'll have a bunch of different competing theories and we'll see how we do on them.

00:26:44 ◼   ► But it still seems like, you know, a couple of months before our iPhone time next year

00:26:48 ◼   ► we will have measured drawings of exactly what the phone will look like.

00:26:51 ◼   ► Maybe we won't know the exact colors and names though.

00:26:54 ◼   ► So get that going for us.

00:26:55 ◼   ► All we know is that it'll be a new shade of space gray.

00:26:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:59 ◼   ► Will they ever run out?

00:27:00 ◼   ► They should just line them up and see, you know, when do they have to go from like, you

00:27:04 ◼   ► know, 8-bit color to 16-bit color to contain all the space grays?

00:27:09 ◼   ► All this is to say, let me tell you about my iPhone.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I was just about to ask.

00:27:15 ◼   ► So I, the first time I ever did this, getting a phone from my wife, we both ended up waking

00:27:20 ◼   ► up because really when one person wakes up like look everyone's gonna be up. I was very

00:27:26 ◼   ► unlucky in the CDN lottery. The store did not come up for me for like 10 or 12 minutes.

00:27:34 ◼   ► What I eventually got through on first was actually the website. So I'm in the category

00:27:38 ◼   ► of one of the people where I'm furiously force quitting and relaunching the app on you know

00:27:43 ◼   ► on Wi-Fi and LTE did not let me get to it. I got it first on the website but because

00:27:48 ◼   ► my wife was also doing this on multiple devices, she was doing it on her Mac and her phone.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Before I went through the auto process right up to the end because I knew what she wanted

00:27:57 ◼   ► but before I hit the button, by that point I had walked downstairs and wanted to check

00:28:01 ◼   ► are you in the same process?

00:28:02 ◼   ► It turns out she was, she was right at the buy step as well.

00:28:05 ◼   ► So I didn't actually pull the trigger on my buy, she pulled the trigger on hers, two to

00:28:09 ◼   ► three weeks.

00:28:10 ◼   ► That's when my ship date is.

00:28:12 ◼   ► So I did not get day one.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I was unlucky in the unintentional CDN lottery, but two or three weeks is not that bad.

00:28:20 ◼   ► She was happy with it because she was also worried that it would be a really long time,

00:28:23 ◼   ► and she didn't want to wait a really long time because she was kind of getting sick

00:28:25 ◼   ► of her phone.

00:28:26 ◼   ► So two or three weeks is acceptable to her.

00:28:28 ◼   ► Oh, I forgot.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Yeah, she got the big one, and we did it at Verizon, and they did the thing where it's

00:28:33 ◼   ► like, "We're having trouble contacting your carrier," which is a vast improvement.

00:28:37 ◼   ► I tweeted, you know, I tweeted that it might have seemed like snark, but it wasn't, and

00:28:41 ◼   ► I called it progress.

00:28:42 ◼   ► This is progress.

00:28:43 ◼   ► better than it was before. It's still sad that they, you know, the carriers suck and

00:28:46 ◼   ► they can't make this work, but at least it doesn't stop the process. But there was, you

00:28:51 ◼   ► know, a good 24 hours of fretting because you go through the process and it's like,

00:28:56 ◼   ► "Oh, well, I could contact the carrier, but don't worry, your phone is reserved." And

00:28:59 ◼   ► you go to bed, you know, 3.30 thinking everything's fine, right? But then the next day you start

00:29:04 ◼   ► to worry as everyone else says, "Look at my order, look at my ship date, blah, blah, blah,

00:29:08 ◼   ► blah." And you have nothing. You just have a screen that you saw last night at 3.30 in

00:29:12 ◼   ► morning that said you had a phone but there's no proof that even happened right and you have an

00:29:18 ◼   ► email that says oh we'll contact you when it's time for you to complete your order right but then

00:29:23 ◼   ► you're just waiting for an email it's like so when when are you going to email me and tell me i can

00:29:26 ◼   ► complete my order then you start worrying they're going to email me and tell me i can complete my

00:29:29 ◼   ► order and that's going to count as my order time like that i didn't reserve a spot in the line at

00:29:32 ◼   ► 3 a.m but it's really just going to be when i get the email especially since they say you'll have

00:29:35 ◼   ► 24 hours to complete your order so there's a little bit of time pressure and it was a really

00:29:40 ◼   ► a long time. Like everybody else had gotten their orders and they got their dates and

00:29:44 ◼   ► everything. We still hadn't received the email. But finally towards the end of the day, the

00:29:47 ◼   ► next day, got an email, completed the order. And that's when we saw the two to three week

00:29:52 ◼   ► thing. So that's not the best system. It's a little bit nerve wracking. I would like

00:29:56 ◼   ► it if I could actually go through the process and give them the money and complete the order

00:30:00 ◼   ► and just say, just settle up, figure it out with Verizon later. Because obviously already

00:30:04 ◼   ► reserving me a spot. I don't see why I have to be involved with the time delayed retry.

00:30:09 ◼   ► Apple can do that on their end.

00:30:11 ◼   ► So that was a little bit nerve-wracking,

00:30:13 ◼   ► but it all came out well in the end.

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00:31:22 ◼   ► by setting up your first three devices for free with Jamf.

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00:31:28 ◼   ► So see for yourself, create a free account today

00:31:31 ◼   ► at jamf.com/atp.

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00:31:37 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Jamf Now for sponsoring our show.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Jamf Now, manage your Apple devices from anywhere.

00:31:43 ◼   ► - So tell me about your iMac.

00:31:48 ◼   ► - It's back.

00:31:49 ◼   ► So here's what happened.

00:31:52 ◼   ► So the Genius Bar or Grove or Forest, whatever,

00:31:55 ◼   ► had it for a little less than a week.

00:31:58 ◼   ► In a little less than a week, they replaced the panel.

00:32:03 ◼   ► That's it.

00:32:04 ◼   ► Oh, and then the very last day,

00:32:07 ◼   ► somebody called me to ask if they could format

00:32:09 ◼   ► my hard drive, even though I told them

00:32:11 ◼   ► when I dropped it off, yes, I have everything backed up,

00:32:13 ◼   ► you can replace it or format it if you need to.

00:32:15 ◼   ► They said they needed to format my hard drive

00:32:18 ◼   ► because there was some bad data on the platters,

00:32:21 ◼   ► by the way, this is an SSD only iMac,

00:32:24 ◼   ► there was some bad data on my platters,

00:32:27 ◼   ► and that was causing my GPU overheating issue,

00:32:31 ◼   ► and that they had to reformat the hard drive

00:32:34 ◼   ► to get rid of the bad blocks on my platters.

00:32:37 ◼   ► And so I was just like, really?

00:32:41 ◼   ► Like, can you explain that a little bit more?

00:32:43 ◼   ► And every explanation I got was worse than the last one.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And I didn't pull like the I'm a nerd card.

00:32:50 ◼   ► I didn't tell them how wrong they were.

00:32:53 ◼   ► - Why did you bother pressing them on that?

00:32:55 ◼   ► Did you think there was a real explanation

00:32:58 ◼   ► hiding under there or did you just wanna hear them squirm

00:33:00 ◼   ► as they try to rephrase it another way.

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Well, and I was trying, 'cause I was like,

00:33:04 ◼   ► how can that affect the GPU?

00:33:06 ◼   ► Okay, I said GPU every single time I talked about this fan.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Every time, like look, the GPU runs too hot.

00:33:15 ◼   ► I monitor, I can even tell you the temperature.

00:33:16 ◼   ► It runs too hot, then the fan spins up.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Well, it's doing almost nothing, okay?

00:33:21 ◼   ► The GPU, and I kept, I said it when I dropped it off,

00:33:24 ◼   ► I said it when they were doing testing,

00:33:25 ◼   ► I said it everywhere.

00:33:27 ◼   ► every single time that they said it back to me,

00:33:31 ◼   ► they said, "Oh, this is why your fan's running hot."

00:33:33 ◼   ► I'm like, "No, no, no, no, it's more detailed than that.

00:33:36 ◼   ► "Trust me, I'm trying to help you figure this out."

00:33:39 ◼   ► Like, no, they didn't hear it.

00:33:41 ◼   ► So, you know, look, I had a mediocre experience, right?

00:33:44 ◼   ► The people were very nice, they didn't fix

00:33:46 ◼   ► any of my problems except for the screen.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Oh, and now I have a hot green pixel

00:33:49 ◼   ► in the middle of the screen.

00:33:51 ◼   ► So, you know, I'm not gonna have them touch it again.

00:33:54 ◼   ► This is why I don't, like, whenever people,

00:33:56 ◼   ► Whenever I complain about a problem with hardware I have,

00:33:59 ◼   ► and people are like,

00:34:00 ◼   ► "Why didn't you just bring it in for repair?"

00:34:01 ◼   ► This is why, because it doesn't usually

00:34:04 ◼   ► get the problems fixed.

00:34:05 ◼   ► And sometimes if it's easy,

00:34:07 ◼   ► like when I had a bad lightning port on my phone,

00:34:10 ◼   ► that was easy.

00:34:11 ◼   ► They swapped it out, done, great experience.

00:34:13 ◼   ► But when it's like a nuanced issue with a desktop computer,

00:34:18 ◼   ► I had to haul it there, go without a desktop for a week,

00:34:21 ◼   ► get it back, put all my data back on,

00:34:23 ◼   ► 'cause they formatted the drive for no reason,

00:34:26 ◼   ► The fan still runs too fast when the GPU runs hot

00:34:28 ◼   ► for no apparent reason.

00:34:29 ◼   ► It wasn't bad data on my platters and my SSD.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Surprise, surprise.

00:34:34 ◼   ► And so, you know, I appreciate that they tried.

00:34:38 ◼   ► But this is why I don't do this usually.

00:34:41 ◼   ► - I usually take the opposite approach

00:34:42 ◼   ► where I feel like once the seal is broken,

00:34:44 ◼   ► once I've gone to and from the store once,

00:34:46 ◼   ► I'm going to continue to go back until,

00:34:48 ◼   ► as John Roddick would say, I get satisfaction.

00:34:51 ◼   ► That's why I brought my Thunderbolt display

00:34:52 ◼   ► back three times.

00:34:53 ◼   ► So if they replaced the screen and it came back

00:34:55 ◼   ► with a hot green sub pixel,

00:34:57 ◼   ► that would go back immediately just for the screen.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Because like, look, I've gone through this asshole

00:35:01 ◼   ► to get the screen.

00:35:02 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep going through it

00:35:03 ◼   ► until I get a perfect screen back.

00:35:04 ◼   ► Unless there's some policy about them not doing it,

00:35:06 ◼   ► but I don't know the deals, but I would try, right?

00:35:09 ◼   ► And my attempt to explain the erasing of the disc,

00:35:12 ◼   ► like maybe like the cutting the ends off the roast reason

00:35:17 ◼   ► behind this poor person trying to explain to you

00:35:19 ◼   ► why they wanna erase your hard drive.

00:35:23 ◼   ► I have had many times in the past problems that make the computer do weird stuff that

00:35:28 ◼   ► have to do with like corrupted libraries somewhere, right?

00:35:30 ◼   ► So like some sort of file on disk does not check some correctly.

00:35:33 ◼   ► It has the wrong data in it.

00:35:35 ◼   ► Who knows why?

00:35:36 ◼   ► Like HFS+ errors, you know, could actually be a hardware related failure.

00:35:40 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:35:41 ◼   ► And you say like, well, how, why would that manifest in the GPU getting hot?

00:35:46 ◼   ► There's enough tiny little things all over the place, loadable pieces of code and various

00:35:51 ◼   ► library files and stuff, that it's possible that one of them could be loaded and only

00:35:59 ◼   ► a certain code path hits the corrupted part and that causes it to crash and then it immediately

00:36:03 ◼   ► relaunches and that happens over and over and over again and that causes some subsystem

00:36:07 ◼   ► to work harder than it should because it's basically probabilistically constantly crashing

00:36:12 ◼   ► depending on when the code path that hits the corrupted part of the library is hit.

00:36:17 ◼   ► And you don't see that except maybe in a console line somewhere if you're lucky and that would

00:36:21 ◼   ► cause temperature to go up, so that's my most charitable interpretation of why there might

00:36:24 ◼   ► be a legit reason for them to erase your disk.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Although that's why a lot of people say "I did a combo updater and it fixed everything!"

00:36:31 ◼   ► Like just reinstalling the OS often fixes it too because it'll replace that library

00:36:34 ◼   ► with the correct version of it again.

00:36:36 ◼   ► Stuff like that has happened.

00:36:38 ◼   ► It probably doesn't explain a temperature specific thing, I would expect to see more

00:36:41 ◼   ► crashes or whatever, but I'll bet that issues like that are one of the reasons why they

00:36:46 ◼   ► routinely want to erase your drive, just to reduce the number of variables essentially.

00:36:50 ◼   ► They should have just said, "We don't know, but we're out of ideas, and this is always

00:36:54 ◼   ► the last thing we try, and sometimes it fixes it, so it's worthwhile."

00:36:58 ◼   ► And so they did it.

00:36:59 ◼   ► Okay, so we had somebody write in who is an anonymous AppleCare advisor, and they said

00:37:05 ◼   ► that they were servicing a 2017 MacBook Pro 13-inch for a spacebar that stopped functioning.

00:37:13 ◼   ► AppleCare had determined that the issue was related to accidental damage and therefore

00:37:16 ◼   ► was not covered under warranty.

00:37:18 ◼   ► held their MacBook Pro for a re-quote price of $475.

00:37:24 ◼   ► Holy smokes.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Although the customer disputes prying the key off in an effort to fix the issue herself,

00:37:29 ◼   ► I don't doubt that she probably did.

00:37:31 ◼   ► The point is, our customers would have no reason to try and perform surgery on their

00:37:34 ◼   ► brand new laptops with their car keys if the keyboards worked reliably in the first place.

00:37:39 ◼   ► $500 to fix this keyboard?

00:37:42 ◼   ► That is bananas.

00:37:43 ◼   ► I thought this was a good story because it shows just how things can go wrong.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Thus far we've been talking about it like, "Oh, we don't really know what the reliability

00:37:51 ◼   ► issue is, but these things are all still under warranty and eventually they won't be and

00:37:53 ◼   ► it will be worse."

00:37:54 ◼   ► But this is, you know, this is an example of good Apple customer service in the end,

00:37:59 ◼   ► but sort of a trap for customers.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Like if this happens to you, you get a new laptop and the space bar stops working and

00:38:07 ◼   ► you decide to try to pry the keycap off.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Now maybe you're just frustrated, maybe you're impatient, maybe you don't want to bother

00:38:12 ◼   ► taking the store, maybe you've pried the keycaps off past Apple laptops and have fixed

00:38:16 ◼   ► it yourself by blowing stuff out or whatever. But either way, if you do this and when you

00:38:23 ◼   ► do it with these new keyboards, there's no way to get it back on successfully. You're

00:38:28 ◼   ► doomed to prying off the keycaps is not a thing you should do. It's not even a thing

00:38:31 ◼   ► that Apple repair centers do. That's why they have to replace the whole top of your computer,

00:38:36 ◼   ► right? If you do that and then bring it into the Apple Store, they're going to say, "Well,

00:38:41 ◼   ► I see that your problem, you pry it off your space bar.

00:38:44 ◼   ► And that's not covered under warranty

00:38:46 ◼   ► because you essentially damaged your own computer.

00:38:49 ◼   ► And if you say, no, no, no, I've only pried it off

00:38:51 ◼   ► because before the space bar wasn't working,

00:38:54 ◼   ► by the letter of the Apple Care laws,

00:38:57 ◼   ► like no, if you pry the key,

00:39:00 ◼   ► if you try to repair your own computer and mess it up,

00:39:02 ◼   ► we don't pay for that.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Now, the reason this is good Apple customer service

00:39:07 ◼   ► is that the person involved was able to make an exception

00:39:10 ◼   ► and override the repair center or whatever.

00:39:12 ◼   ► The genius understands.

00:39:14 ◼   ► The only reason you pry this off is because it was broken.

00:39:15 ◼   ► I don't think you're sitting around deciding

00:39:16 ◼   ► to pry off your key caps for the hell of it, right?

00:39:19 ◼   ► And so they did the right thing

00:39:21 ◼   ► and are letting this get repaired under warranty,

00:39:22 ◼   ► but when the warranty runs out,

00:39:24 ◼   ► like we just go wait for the first person

00:39:26 ◼   ► to have a stuck key at exactly the time

00:39:30 ◼   ► that warranty runs out and realize stuck key equals $475.

00:39:34 ◼   ► And that's gonna be a very, very sad person.

00:39:37 ◼   ► A person who will probably start considering

00:39:39 ◼   ► how convenient it might be to use their laptop without ever touching the keyboard on it.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Maybe they're in the market for a new Mac Mini.

00:39:45 ◼   ► [laughter]

00:39:46 ◼   ► If only.

00:39:47 ◼   ► I don't remember which show it was I heard this on, but did you hear that repairing the

00:39:53 ◼   ► back glass on an iPhone X is something like $500?

00:39:56 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like a full replacement cost, basically.

00:40:00 ◼   ► So yeah, it's like over $500.

00:40:03 ◼   ► And notice, AppleCare costs $200 now on the iPhone X.

00:40:06 ◼   ► - I forgot to ask, did you guys all get AppleCare?

00:40:10 ◼   ► - I did not.

00:40:11 ◼   ► - Oh, living dangerously.

00:40:13 ◼   ► - I buy it for Tiff's because she wants the peace of mind

00:40:17 ◼   ► of knowing, and she does drop her phone occasionally.

00:40:19 ◼   ► We do have cases, we have yet to break one,

00:40:21 ◼   ► but still for hers we wanted to buy it

00:40:24 ◼   ► because that makes me feel better.

00:40:26 ◼   ► For mine, I never have.

00:40:29 ◼   ► And my policy has been, you know,

00:40:31 ◼   ► 'cause now AppleCare is like,

00:40:33 ◼   ► I think it's like 130 or 140-ish for the regular iPhone 8s,

00:40:38 ◼   ► and then for the iPhone 10, it's 200.

00:40:40 ◼   ► My thinking here is the first time

00:40:43 ◼   ► I have to have a very expensive repair,

00:40:46 ◼   ► I will reconsider my policy of having not spent $200

00:40:49 ◼   ► every year up until that point.

00:40:50 ◼   ► But until that happens, and unless that happens,

00:40:54 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep not spending $200 to protect the phone

00:40:56 ◼   ► that I don't necessarily need to be protected,

00:40:58 ◼   ► and we'll let it ride from there.

00:41:01 ◼   ► I'm the kind of person who I don't really drop my stuff.

00:41:03 ◼   ► I've never dropped gadgets before.

00:41:05 ◼   ► I think I've dropped a phone,

00:41:08 ◼   ► in the total of time that I've had iPhones,

00:41:11 ◼   ► the entire last 10 years,

00:41:13 ◼   ► I think I've dropped it maybe twice.

00:41:16 ◼   ► And neither time it was significantly damaged.

00:41:19 ◼   ► So I hope I don't need it, and if I start needing it,

00:41:22 ◼   ► then I'll eat that first repair as a life lesson

00:41:25 ◼   ► and I'll start getting it then.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Until that happens, I'm saving 200 bucks a year.

00:41:29 ◼   ► I did get AppleCare+ on my iPhone 7, and if you recall, I dropped it when I was running

00:41:36 ◼   ► with it because I'm an idiot, and that was my first iPhone casualty.

00:41:41 ◼   ► I have also developed a deep scratch in the screen.

00:41:43 ◼   ► Since that happened, I have no earthly idea how.

00:41:46 ◼   ► So the good news is if I get this repaired a second time, the AppleCare will have paid

00:41:50 ◼   ► for itself.

00:41:51 ◼   ► But this is the first phone I've run in a long time without a case, and $200 on top

00:41:56 ◼   ► of $1200 or whatever I paid is a lot of money. So I have a leather case that will be a few

00:42:02 ◼   ► days late behind my phone because I just ordered it today, and I think I'm going to go back

00:42:07 ◼   ► to having a leather case and hopefully not destroying my phone.

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00:43:55 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:43:58 ◼   ► - John, it is all coming up Milhouse

00:44:00 ◼   ► with regard to the Apple TV.

00:44:02 ◼   ► Tell us about this.

00:44:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, so a bunch of essentially announcements from Apple

00:44:08 ◼   ► because they have videos, this strange sort of out of time,

00:44:11 ◼   ► not at WWDC, but very much like WWDC videos

00:44:14 ◼   ► explaining some of the new APIs in tvOS 11.2 which is not yet released but presumably will

00:44:21 ◼   ► be in beta soon.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So the very first thing I did was went out to my Apple TV and turned on beta software

00:44:27 ◼   ► updates which is a thing that you can do if you sign up for the beta program you get a

00:44:30 ◼   ► menu thing that says in the software update thing do you want to also consider beta updates?

00:44:34 ◼   ► I said yes and I said please update me and it did an update but then when I rebooted

00:44:39 ◼   ► I was still on 11.1 and now every time I check for an update it says I have the latest version

00:44:43 ◼   ► So I do not have 11.2.

00:44:45 ◼   ► I don't know if anybody has it.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Maybe that beta's not out yet.

00:44:48 ◼   ► But anyway, why do I want 11.2?

00:44:50 ◼   ► Well, a couple of reasons.

00:44:51 ◼   ► First, there is a new API called A/V Display Manager.

00:44:55 ◼   ► Actually, I don't even know if it's a new API.

00:44:57 ◼   ► Unfortunately, I have not had time to watch this video.

00:45:00 ◼   ► But there's new APIs that allow you as an app developer

00:45:04 ◼   ► to switch video display modes.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Confusingly, there's a second set of screenshots

00:45:11 ◼   ► showing what the tvOS thing will look like, where there are options now to say automatically

00:45:18 ◼   ► match the frame rate of the source video and automatically match the HDR-ness of the source

00:45:23 ◼   ► video, and you can turn them both on.

00:45:26 ◼   ► And for a little while I was confused, well, which is it?

00:45:30 ◼   ► Is it that application developers have to update their apps to switch modes, or is it

00:45:34 ◼   ► that Apple TV will simply detect the frame rate and quality of the video that's displaying

00:45:40 ◼   ► in Apple TV will switch modes.

00:45:41 ◼   ► As far as I can tell, it is you need both for this to happen.

00:45:45 ◼   ► Developers need to update their apps to use a new API.

00:45:48 ◼   ► And the new API won't actually switch your mode

00:45:50 ◼   ► unless the preference is set in your Apple TV to say,

00:45:53 ◼   ► hey, if an application says that it wants to change the mode

00:45:56 ◼   ► to 24 frames per second or whatever,

00:45:58 ◼   ► or some multiple of that, allow it to do it.

00:46:01 ◼   ► Again, I haven't actually installed this beta

00:46:03 ◼   ► because they won't send it to me, so I'm not entirely sure.

00:46:05 ◼   ► So I'm just going off several articles on this topic.

00:46:07 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes

00:46:08 ◼   ► the Ars Technica one, which I think just summarizes the information that's provided.

00:46:12 ◼   ► But anyway, this is all good news. The good news is you will not have to go to that menu

00:46:17 ◼   ► and pick from umpteen different formats every time you're going to play a video, which of

00:46:21 ◼   ► course you know the exact frame rate for. And it's also good news for people with HDR

00:46:25 ◼   ► TVs because previously apparently it was, if you turned HDR on and played some non-HDR

00:46:29 ◼   ► video, it would try to display it in HDR and make it look all gross, which is just terrible.

00:46:33 ◼   ► I didn't know that because I don't have an HDR TV. My only fear now is that these

00:46:38 ◼   ► These features will come and they will be 4K only.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Not Apple TV 4K only but will only be available if you have a 4K television.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Because right now I can't tell the Apple TV to output at some multiple 24Hz to my television

00:46:53 ◼   ► because I have a standard, not a standard television, a non-4K television and I don't

00:46:58 ◼   ► have a 24Hz option or any multiple thereof.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Which is a shame if you have a 4K TV you do.

00:47:03 ◼   ► I'm hoping all this mode switching and everything is not confined to 4K like these other settings

00:47:09 ◼   ► are.

00:47:10 ◼   ► So we'll see, but I'm excited about it.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Things are going in the right direction.

00:47:12 ◼   ► All right, let's ask ATP.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Drew wants to know, "What do you recommend for antivirus on High Sierra?

00:47:18 ◼   ► Don't run it, don't know."

00:47:19 ◼   ► Yeah, I had someone ask me this at work too, and the reason I put this question in there

00:47:23 ◼   ► is that this is a surprisingly common question, especially for new Mac users.

00:47:26 ◼   ► What should I get for antivirus?

00:47:28 ◼   ► My answer to all these people is, "Do not install antivirus software on your Mac."

00:47:32 ◼   ► Maybe that sounds terrible and maybe people think I'm an old fogy and really in this modern

00:47:36 ◼   ► day and age you need antivirus software and blah blah blah, but from my experience over

00:47:40 ◼   ► many many years being forced to run many different kinds of antivirus software at work, I hate

00:47:46 ◼   ► all of them and all of them made my Mac worse.

00:47:48 ◼   ► And at home I have never ever ever ever run antivirus software on my Macs and as far as

00:47:55 ◼   ► I'm aware I have never had any problems with viruses.

00:47:58 ◼   ► So my recommendation is do not run antivirus software

00:48:02 ◼   ► on your Mac, it's all bad.

00:48:03 ◼   ► - Marco, any other thoughts?

00:48:06 ◼   ► - I think exactly what John says,

00:48:07 ◼   ► minus the work experience part.

00:48:09 ◼   ► I mean, at this point, I would say that antivirus software

00:48:14 ◼   ► on your Mac, I think, probably is a bigger threat

00:48:18 ◼   ► of itself being malware than any malware

00:48:21 ◼   ► that you would find.

00:48:22 ◼   ► - And even when it's working correctly,

00:48:23 ◼   ► not that it's malware, but it messes with your computer.

00:48:26 ◼   ► It makes it slow, it makes it annoying,

00:48:28 ◼   ► makes things not work that were supposed to work,

00:48:30 ◼   ► the headaches you will get

00:48:32 ◼   ► from the antivirus software itself

00:48:34 ◼   ► far outweigh the supposed protection.

00:48:36 ◼   ► And honestly, it's not gonna protect you anyway.

00:48:38 ◼   ► Like, I mean, the real question is like,

00:48:39 ◼   ► just find a long time Mac user,

00:48:41 ◼   ► maybe not me, like, you know, 1984 Mac user, but you know.

00:48:44 ◼   ► - Humble brat.

00:48:45 ◼   ► - Right, well, I'm just saying like,

00:48:47 ◼   ► find someone who's been using your Mac for years

00:48:48 ◼   ► and ask them, what do you run for antivirus?

00:48:50 ◼   ► Like, can you find a Mac user who has not run antivirus

00:48:55 ◼   ► and has been, you know, overrun by viruses?

00:48:57 ◼   ► Like Marco and Casey, have you ever run antivirus software

00:49:00 ◼   ► on your Mac?

00:49:01 ◼   ► - My work computer, but that's because it's compulsory,

00:49:03 ◼   ► not because I choose it.

00:49:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I mean your home one.

00:49:06 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:49:07 ◼   ► - Even when I had a work computer, I didn't.

00:49:09 ◼   ► - Have you ever had any problem with viruses?

00:49:13 ◼   ► - Not only have I never had a problem with a Mac virus,

00:49:15 ◼   ► I've never even heard of anybody else having a problem

00:49:18 ◼   ► with one ever.

00:49:19 ◼   ► - Same.

00:49:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean more likely it's gonna be

00:49:22 ◼   ► social engineering and getting you to click on some button

00:49:24 ◼   ► you're not supposed to,

00:49:26 ◼   ► And not to say there aren't vulnerabilities.

00:49:27 ◼   ► Macs are totally vulnerable to malware and viruses, 100%, and humans are completely vulnerable

00:49:32 ◼   ► to social engineering and things that trick you into clicking something you're not supposed

00:49:36 ◼   ► to do, right?

00:49:37 ◼   ► But the question wasn't like, "Are Macs vulnerable to viruses?"

00:49:40 ◼   ► They are.

00:49:41 ◼   ► The question was, "Should I install antivirus software?"

00:49:43 ◼   ► And the answer to that is no, because that software is bad and makes your Mac worse.

00:49:47 ◼   ► And remember that Apple does have very rudimentary anti-malware stuff that you're getting whether

00:49:53 ◼   ► you know it or not.

00:49:54 ◼   ► push updates to it when they identify new malware.

00:49:56 ◼   ► It's not gonna save you from everything,

00:49:58 ◼   ► but it's not as if you're completely unprotected.

00:50:00 ◼   ► - So this next one was an email submission,

00:50:03 ◼   ► and I thought it was really interesting.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Charlie Elman writes, "If iOS and macOS were available

00:50:09 ◼   ► "to install and integrate with any hardware,

00:50:11 ◼   ► "would you still use an iPhone and a Mac?"

00:50:13 ◼   ► And he continues, "For this thought experiment,

00:50:15 ◼   ► "assume that it works well on all devices,

00:50:18 ◼   ► "none of the Windows driver crap,

00:50:20 ◼   ► "software updates would happen just as regularly,

00:50:22 ◼   ► none of the Android fragmentation crap.

00:50:25 ◼   ► You could use any of the new hardware on other devices

00:50:28 ◼   ► without issue, NFC, Microsoft Pen and Dial,

00:50:30 ◼   ► Google Pixel Squeeze, et cetera.

00:50:33 ◼   ► And the prices don't change,

00:50:34 ◼   ► meaning the Galaxy S8 wouldn't cost as much as an iPhone,

00:50:37 ◼   ► the Surface Book wouldn't cost as much

00:50:38 ◼   ► as a Touch Bar MacBook, et cetera.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I have thought about this for several days now,

00:50:44 ◼   ► 'cause I was the one who added this to the show notes.

00:50:47 ◼   ► And I don't think I have any really strong answers,

00:50:50 ◼   ► because I really, really do think, for me,

00:50:55 ◼   ► that the best hardware out there is Apple hardware.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I would probably at least flirt with a ThinkPad,

00:51:03 ◼   ► especially that retro one that just came out.

00:51:06 ◼   ► I know Jon is getting really sick to his stomach

00:51:09 ◼   ► hearing me talk about this,

00:51:10 ◼   ► but man, I think that looks good.

00:51:12 ◼   ► But anyway, I don't think I've ever seen a phone

00:51:15 ◼   ► that I've longed for,

00:51:18 ◼   ► And I don't really ever see computers that I'm terribly enthusiastic about outside of

00:51:24 ◼   ► what comes from Apple.

00:51:25 ◼   ► And I don't know if it's Stockholm Syndrome at this point or what, but other than maybe

00:51:31 ◼   ► a ThinkPad, I don't think there's anything.

00:51:33 ◼   ► But what about you, Jon?

00:51:36 ◼   ► I would definitely use non-Apple hardware because I would get basically the modern equivalent

00:51:42 ◼   ► of my 2008 Mac Pro.

00:51:43 ◼   ► I'd get a big computer with room for lots of stuff inside, including a really big gaming

00:51:47 ◼   ► video card.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Apple doesn't sell anything like that.

00:51:49 ◼   ► So I would have gotten that long ago.

00:51:51 ◼   ► Like that's what I'm waiting around for is that, you know, a Mac Pro that I want to buy.

00:51:54 ◼   ► If I could get third party hardware and run macOS and not have to deal with any of the,

00:51:58 ◼   ► you know, Hackintosh stuff or whatever.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Yes, I definitely would.

00:52:02 ◼   ► For phones, I also have never seen a phone that has made me think I would rather have

00:52:09 ◼   ► that hardware than my iPhone hardware.

00:52:11 ◼   ► Even if it's down to something like mini USB versus lighting, that was no contest.

00:52:16 ◼   ► USB-C versus Lightning, I think I still kind of prefer Lightning.

00:52:19 ◼   ► So I don't think there's any phone hardware that would tempt me, especially now that we

00:52:24 ◼   ► have like the six and seven size phone, and we'll see what I think of the ten when it

00:52:29 ◼   ► gets here.

00:52:31 ◼   ► But for my desktop Mac computer, in the absence of a Mac Pro that suits my needs, I would

00:52:37 ◼   ► definitely be running third-party hardware.

00:52:39 ◼   ► >> Markov?

00:52:40 ◼   ► >> I have never seen another phone that I actually thought like, I would like to see

00:52:46 ◼   ► stop using my iPhone and go use that please.

00:52:49 ◼   ► It has never come close.

00:52:50 ◼   ► I was very impressed when I saw the,

00:52:52 ◼   ► what is it, the Samsung, the S8?

00:52:55 ◼   ► The one that, not the Note, but the one that came out

00:52:58 ◼   ► like six months ago that was edge to edge-ish,

00:53:01 ◼   ► like that one, I was very impressed when I saw that.

00:53:03 ◼   ► But it wasn't so compelling that I like,

00:53:06 ◼   ► I wanna lose everything I know about the hardware.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Now this is a great question in the sense that

00:53:09 ◼   ► it assumes that we can still use the software that we like,

00:53:12 ◼   ► you know, all the Apple software.

00:53:14 ◼   ► 'Cause that really is, that's what matters more.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Ultimately, I would take Apple hardware

00:53:22 ◼   ► that makes me miserable before I would leave Mac OS

00:53:26 ◼   ► and iOS for the alternatives.

00:53:28 ◼   ► So it's a good question.

00:53:31 ◼   ► For the phones, yeah, no way.

00:53:32 ◼   ► For tablets, no.

00:53:35 ◼   ► For laptops, maybe.

00:53:38 ◼   ► I think I might consider using PC laptops, especially--

00:53:41 ◼   ► - Oh, you absolutely would.

00:53:43 ◼   ► After all this kvetching about the keyboard,

00:53:45 ◼   ► you absolutely would go to a different laptop.

00:53:48 ◼   ► - Oh, PC laptops are kinda ugly though.

00:53:50 ◼   ► - Well, I don't care about the look so much

00:53:52 ◼   ► as the functionality for me.

00:53:54 ◼   ► So anyway, I'm very happy right now

00:53:56 ◼   ► with just having an older Apple laptop.

00:53:59 ◼   ► In the future, when that plan becomes untenable,

00:54:02 ◼   ► I hope their modern ones at that point,

00:54:05 ◼   ► again, are better for me.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Then I'll just switch to the modern ones.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Or even if they're not better,

00:54:10 ◼   ► maybe I'll just wanna suck it up and deal with it

00:54:12 ◼   ► so I don't have to mess with Hackintoshes

00:54:14 ◼   ► or old laptops or anything else.

00:54:17 ◼   ► But if I could run Mac OS perfectly well

00:54:20 ◼   ► on something better from the PC world,

00:54:23 ◼   ► or at least better for my preferences,

00:54:25 ◼   ► sure I would consider that.

00:54:29 ◼   ► There isn't a lot out there

00:54:30 ◼   ► that's honestly that much better.

00:54:32 ◼   ► It's very similar to when I mentioned a couple episodes ago

00:54:35 ◼   ► how reviewers always positively review

00:54:38 ◼   ► whenever there's a new Surface book

00:54:40 ◼   ► or whenever there's like a new Google phone,

00:54:44 ◼   ► a new Nexus or Pixel phone,

00:54:46 ◼   ► the reviews are always really positive

00:54:48 ◼   ► and then the reviewers don't end up using them.

00:54:49 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, this is a great phone for somebody else,"

00:54:52 ◼   ► and then they switch back to their iPhone

00:54:54 ◼   ► and their MacBook the next day.

00:54:56 ◼   ► With a lot of this alternative stuff,

00:54:59 ◼   ► it's hard to get good quality long-term reviews,

00:55:02 ◼   ► and oftentimes the long-term reviews

00:55:04 ◼   ► are a lot less positive than the initial ones were.

00:55:07 ◼   ► So it's hard to really know,

00:55:08 ◼   ► As somebody who admittedly does not try

00:55:12 ◼   ► non-Apple hardware almost ever,

00:55:14 ◼   ► it's hard for me to really know how good the stuff is.

00:55:17 ◼   ► But certainly I would have an open mind to it.

00:55:20 ◼   ► And on the desktop, similar to John,

00:55:23 ◼   ► right now Apple doesn't make what I need.

00:55:25 ◼   ► They said they're going to, so I hope they do.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Unlike John, I don't need my Mac Pro or my Mac desktop,

00:55:33 ◼   ► I don't need it to be a standard tower

00:55:37 ◼   ► with a whole bunch of card slots for gaming cards

00:55:40 ◼   ► or drive bays or anything else.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I don't actually need that.

00:55:43 ◼   ► The Trashcan Mac Pro would've been great for me

00:55:47 ◼   ► if they just updated it.

00:55:48 ◼   ► That would've been great.

00:55:50 ◼   ► They didn't, which is unfortunate,

00:55:52 ◼   ► but if they could just deliver me that

00:55:56 ◼   ► with not the overheating GPUs issue maybe,

00:56:00 ◼   ► deliver me that with modern internals

00:56:02 ◼   ► that can drive a 5K display,

00:56:04 ◼   ► and that would be great, I would love that.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Not a lot of other people would, but I would.

00:56:07 ◼   ► So I'd be totally fine with that.

00:56:08 ◼   ► But in the meantime, they don't have that.

00:56:10 ◼   ► And I don't know when their new Mac Pro is coming.

00:56:13 ◼   ► I assume that it's hopefully next year,

00:56:17 ◼   ► hopefully in the earlier part of the year,

00:56:19 ◼   ► but I really have no idea.

00:56:21 ◼   ► So desktops, I would use non-Apple hardware

00:56:25 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like that's where it would matter the least

00:56:27 ◼   ► that I was using non-Apple hardware.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Like you're not touching it really.

00:56:30 ◼   ► You can use someone else's screen and it's not that bad.

00:56:34 ◼   ► You know, it wouldn't be that big of a deal

00:56:36 ◼   ► to use someone else's desktop.

00:56:37 ◼   ► Especially if you build a tower, it's under your desk,

00:56:39 ◼   ► you barely even see it.

00:56:41 ◼   ► But yeah, it's a cool question.

00:56:43 ◼   ► I like having, I like thinking about this.

00:56:46 ◼   ► It kind of prompts you to look around the PC

00:56:49 ◼   ► and Android worlds to see what the alternatives even are,

00:56:53 ◼   ► but ultimately I don't find a lot of them very compelling.

00:56:57 ◼   ► It would be kind of interesting

00:56:58 ◼   ► to build my own computer again.

00:56:59 ◼   ► I used to do that.

00:57:00 ◼   ► You know, I used to build my own PC,

00:57:02 ◼   ► and I really enjoyed that hobby.

00:57:03 ◼   ► That was a really fun hobby.

00:57:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I agree.

00:57:06 ◼   ► - It would be kind of interesting to see

00:57:07 ◼   ► what that's like now from the little glances

00:57:11 ◼   ► I've seen here and there from people posting about it

00:57:13 ◼   ► and stuff, it doesn't seem like it's that different.

00:57:15 ◼   ► It seems like most of it is actually about the same.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Just like now there's been like five new versions

00:57:20 ◼   ► of ATX since then, but it's still fairly similar.

00:57:25 ◼   ► You know, now I think everybody water cools now.

00:57:29 ◼   ► Back then it was much more of a specialized thing

00:57:32 ◼   ► that most people didn't do.

00:57:34 ◼   ► Now water cooling is much more common

00:57:35 ◼   ► and there's a lot more blue LEDs,

00:57:37 ◼   ► which I would not consider a feature.

00:57:39 ◼   ► So it would be kind of fun to build computers again,

00:57:44 ◼   ► but ultimately, if Apple gives me a really nice Mac Pro,

00:57:49 ◼   ► I'll be pretty happy with that.

00:57:50 ◼   ► - I forgot to address laptops because I don't like laptops,

00:57:53 ◼   ► but if forced to pick a laptop,

00:57:54 ◼   ► would you stick with the Apple one?

00:57:57 ◼   ► I'm in a bind because I think all the laptops,

00:58:00 ◼   ► except for the Microsoft ones,

00:58:01 ◼   ► I find them less pleasing looking than the Apple ones and you know that makes a difference

00:58:07 ◼   ► to me.

00:58:08 ◼   ► And it's not like you can build your own laptop like you can with desktop, right?

00:58:11 ◼   ► So you don't have as many options there.

00:58:13 ◼   ► But all I've heard about the Microsoft laptops and their you know transformable tablets and

00:58:18 ◼   ► stuff like that is that they have all sorts of weird reliability problems and durability

00:58:21 ◼   ► problems with the fabric and everything.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Like that line of computers is the most appealing to me but I would be wary of actually buying

00:58:28 ◼   ► one for myself because of all the reliability problems I've heard for the service book.

00:58:32 ◼   ► So you know, unlike Casey, I don't have a thing for the ThinkPad, so I just don't think

00:58:37 ◼   ► there's a lot of laptop hardware out there. Although, if pressed, if I was forced, I would

00:58:42 ◼   ► probably still just grin and bear it and get an ugly PC thing just so I could have ports

00:58:46 ◼   ► and battery life and all the things that we've complained about a million times.

00:58:50 ◼   ► I will say, there was a really nice segment on Back to Work about, I think it was last

00:58:55 ◼   ► week's episode. Microsoft reps offered to send Dan Benjamin a Surface Book, honestly

00:59:03 ◼   ► I don't know, I can't tell you which model, some kind of Surface Book to just try out,

00:59:07 ◼   ► something that could be a tablet and a laptop. Can they all do that? I don't know. Whatever.

00:59:12 ◼   ► Anyway, they sent him one to try out and he talked about it on the show and the discussion

00:59:15 ◼   ► was very, very good. You know, Dan is somebody who is mostly an Apple person, but he has

00:59:22 ◼   ► recent PC experience also.

00:59:25 ◼   ► And so to hear his impressions of the service book

00:59:27 ◼   ► were very good, and overall, to spoil it,

00:59:30 ◼   ► overall his impressions of it were pretty positive.

00:59:32 ◼   ► So it's worth hearing that to know,

00:59:35 ◼   ► to have kind of a glimpse into the other side

00:59:37 ◼   ► of what it's like when a mostly Apple person

00:59:40 ◼   ► talks a lot about a modern, nice Windows laptop.

00:59:45 ◼   ► And especially hearing about what it's like

00:59:48 ◼   ► to have crossovers between tablet mode

00:59:52 ◼   ► and being able to have a pen or touch input

00:59:56 ◼   ► in a desktop OS.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Dan came out of that basically saying,

01:00:01 ◼   ► Apple should have something like this for Mac OS.

01:00:04 ◼   ► And if you're a really big fan of the iPad,

01:00:06 ◼   ► you probably shouldn't listen to this episode.

01:00:08 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:00:09 ◼   ► But I think there's a lot to consider there

01:00:13 ◼   ► that they bring up, so that's worth listening

01:00:14 ◼   ► if you're interested in this kind of stuff.

01:00:16 ◼   ► - Finally, Tim Walker wants to know,

01:00:19 ◼   ► any thoughts about Apple firing an engineer

01:00:20 ◼   ► after his daughter posted a hands-on video

01:00:22 ◼   ► of the iPhone 10 on YouTube.

01:00:24 ◼   ► So the chief summarizer and chief hat is on.

01:00:27 ◼   ► Basically what happened was,

01:00:29 ◼   ► and I think it was a little while ago,

01:00:31 ◼   ► but certainly after the announcement,

01:00:34 ◼   ► an Apple employee who we have later found out

01:00:37 ◼   ► worked somewhere in the RF team, I guess,

01:00:39 ◼   ► the radio frequency team,

01:00:41 ◼   ► had his daughter into Cafe Max,

01:00:43 ◼   ► and she was filming a vlog,

01:00:45 ◼   ► and she also was handed his phone,

01:00:49 ◼   ► he handed her his phone, which was an iPhone 10, again, post-announcement, but pre-, you

01:00:56 ◼   ► know, before everyone had them. And she was flipping through the home screen, and I haven't,

01:01:01 ◼   ► you know, done the Kremlinology on this, but apparently, wow, that's kind of a loaded term

01:01:05 ◼   ► now, isn't it? I haven't done the Zapruder film or however you pronounce it on this.

01:01:09 ◼   ► But anyways, I guess there were some apps that you wouldn't expect to see. Somebody

01:01:14 ◼   ► said something about a QR code that you wouldn't expect to see. So there was some unreleased

01:01:19 ◼   ► stuff on this phone for sure. Well, this video somehow or another got popular, and I say

01:01:26 ◼   ► that only because the young woman who had filmed it and put it on YouTube had said,

01:01:32 ◼   ► you know, I have, in so many words, I have no followers, I don't know how this became

01:01:35 ◼   ► popular etc. etc. But somehow or another did. And they have since fired her dad, they fired

01:01:41 ◼   ► this engineer. And, you know, Tim Walker wants to know, how do we feel about that? And my

01:01:45 ◼   ► initial reaction was, "Man, that's kind of crappy," because the thing was already announced.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Everyone knew what it was. Like, what's the big deal? But then I found out, well, there

01:02:00 ◼   ► was some unreleased software on there, and maybe this QR code thing, and I guess there

01:02:05 ◼   ► may have been a code name or two showing on the screen at one point or another. And that

01:02:11 ◼   ► That made me less confident that Apple was being a bunch of jerks.

01:02:15 ◼   ► And then I was reminded of when, Marco, you and I went to Apple last year in 2016.

01:02:22 ◼   ► And we went to IL-1 or 1IL, I always get it backwards.

01:02:25 ◼   ► We went to the main building, and then we went to the theater that they would occasionally

01:02:30 ◼   ► do product announcements in.

01:02:31 ◼   ► And there's a Steve Jobs quote outside the theater, and I think both of us, or certainly

01:02:37 ◼   ► I, took a picture of it, put it on like Instagram or something like that.

01:02:40 ◼   ► And one of our mutual friends who works at Apple actually privately wrote me and was

01:02:44 ◼   ► like, "Who is letting you take a picture on campus?

01:02:47 ◼   ► That's BS."

01:02:48 ◼   ► And the picture was of a Steve Jobs quote.

01:02:51 ◼   ► Like, and he was genuinely, like, perturbed that this picture was taken, much less posted

01:02:55 ◼   ► anywhere.

01:02:56 ◼   ► He was perturbed that my escort had allowed me to do that, which I think is kind of freaking

01:03:02 ◼   ► ridiculous.

01:03:03 ◼   ► I tell this story to tell, to just emphasize how deep this lies within Apple employees.

01:03:11 ◼   ► And so, in the end of the day, I think, you know what, the dude knew the rules.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Like, she shouldn't have been filming in the first place and definitely should not have seen pre-release software.

01:03:23 ◼   ► If it was just that he handed her the phone and it was off, meh.

01:03:27 ◼   ► I don't see that as that big a deal.

01:03:28 ◼   ► But since apparently there was some unreleased stuff

01:03:33 ◼   ► on that device, that changes my tune quite heavily.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Marco, how do you feel?

01:03:38 ◼   ► - I come down a little harder than you, but nearby.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Basically.

01:03:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:03:44 ◼   ► None of us have ever worked at Apple.

01:03:46 ◼   ► And this is internal hiring policy stuff.

01:03:49 ◼   ► And it's hard to say what should or shouldn't happen

01:03:55 ◼   ► based on what we know from the outside of the situation

01:03:57 ◼   ► because we obviously don't know everything

01:03:59 ◼   ► 'cause we don't work there, we don't know this person,

01:04:01 ◼   ► we don't know everything that was inadvertently revealed

01:04:04 ◼   ► in that video or could have been revealed

01:04:05 ◼   ► or what the policies exactly are written.

01:04:08 ◼   ► Apple's not that keen on sharing things like that

01:04:10 ◼   ► with the public, so.

01:04:11 ◼   ► But I can say that when we were there,

01:04:16 ◼   ► like the last thing I would have ever thought to do

01:04:20 ◼   ► was shoot a vlog.

01:04:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:04:24 ◼   ► I can't even imagine, to me that just shows

01:04:27 ◼   ► a severe lapse in judgment.

01:04:29 ◼   ► And not of the woman who was vlogging,

01:04:33 ◼   ► I mean she wasn't the employee.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Her father who was permitting her to do this

01:04:36 ◼   ► and bringing her into campus knowing she was doing this,

01:04:40 ◼   ► he's the one who has the poor judgment here.

01:04:43 ◼   ► Whether it's against the rules as they're written or not,

01:04:47 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know what the rules are.

01:04:49 ◼   ► I would never assume that would be okay.

01:04:52 ◼   ► and I don't think anybody should be surprised

01:04:56 ◼   ► that he lost his job as a result.

01:04:58 ◼   ► To let somebody in, and you said that maybe

01:05:01 ◼   ► it wouldn't matter if the phone was off.

01:05:03 ◼   ► No, I'll go even further.

01:05:05 ◼   ► The phone was not out yet,

01:05:06 ◼   ► and the press embargo wasn't even lifted.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Like, reviews hadn't even been permitted yet.

01:05:11 ◼   ► To bring someone into campus as an employee,

01:05:15 ◼   ► and to permit them to shoot video of your running phone

01:05:19 ◼   ► of this non-publicly available phone,

01:05:22 ◼   ► I think that's common sense that that would be a problem.

01:05:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:05:25 ◼   ► - And that's not even considering

01:05:27 ◼   ► that it was allegedly running internal software,

01:05:31 ◼   ► which is another problem.

01:05:32 ◼   ► But even if it wasn't running internal software,

01:05:34 ◼   ► I think allowing someone to shoot a video,

01:05:37 ◼   ► first of all, to shoot a video inside campus at all

01:05:39 ◼   ► and publish it, like, you know,

01:05:42 ◼   ► I had lunch at Cafe Max, it was amazing.

01:05:44 ◼   ► The last thing I would have thought to do

01:05:45 ◼   ► was shoot a video and post it. (laughs)

01:05:49 ◼   ► Like, even though we weren't, as far as I know,

01:05:51 ◼   ► we weren't seeing anything secret, you know?

01:05:52 ◼   ► But like, still, it's like this is like the interior

01:05:55 ◼   ► of the campus, like, it felt incredibly privileged

01:05:59 ◼   ► to be there at all, and I didn't want to get myself

01:06:04 ◼   ► or our hosts in trouble, so the last thing

01:06:06 ◼   ► I would have thought to do would be to shoot

01:06:08 ◼   ► any kind of video or like take pictures of people

01:06:11 ◼   ► in the cafe or anything like that.

01:06:13 ◼   ► You know, I too took a picture of the quote on the wall

01:06:16 ◼   ► in that one room, and because it was a press area,

01:06:19 ◼   ► I decided this is probably safe to post to Instagram,

01:06:22 ◼   ► and I did, but that was the only thing

01:06:25 ◼   ► that I took a picture of there.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Like, that's the only memory that I have a record of

01:06:30 ◼   ► of that trip because I was too afraid

01:06:32 ◼   ► to take my phone out for any other reason.

01:06:34 ◼   ► And I didn't want, again,

01:06:35 ◼   ► I didn't want to get anybody in trouble,

01:06:36 ◼   ► and I assumed that it would get people in trouble

01:06:40 ◼   ► if any of us took photos and posted them online.

01:06:43 ◼   ► So yeah, so this should have been common sense,

01:06:47 ◼   ► and I think to most Apple employees,

01:06:49 ◼   ► it is common sense.

01:06:50 ◼   ► And so if somebody didn't see that as common sense

01:06:54 ◼   ► or had a bad lapse in judgment

01:06:56 ◼   ► and lost their job as a result,

01:06:57 ◼   ► I honestly don't think that's that much of a story.

01:07:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think these people need to use common sense

01:07:02 ◼   ► because every employee gets training

01:07:04 ◼   ► with regard to what, with secrets and stuff, right?

01:07:06 ◼   ► It's not like Apple just allows this to happen

01:07:09 ◼   ► through osmosis and culture.

01:07:10 ◼   ► You get told when you're hired by Apple,

01:07:13 ◼   ► here's what you can and can't do,

01:07:15 ◼   ► and all sorts of guidelines on how to be safe

01:07:17 ◼   ► and blah, blah, blah.

01:07:18 ◼   ► And this is clearly a thing that you're not supposed to do.

01:07:21 ◼   ► And this person did it.

01:07:22 ◼   ► And then not only-- and sometimes it's like, well,

01:07:25 ◼   ► is it a zero tolerance policy, one strike and you're out?

01:07:27 ◼   ► Like, isn't there, you know, OK, you made a mistake,

01:07:30 ◼   ► but maybe you're a new employee and don't know?

01:07:33 ◼   ► I'm not sure what their policy with that is.

01:07:35 ◼   ► But in this particular situation,

01:07:39 ◼   ► whether it was the first time or not,

01:07:41 ◼   ► it was not the type of thing where it's like, all right,

01:07:44 ◼   ► well, you took someone on a tour and you let them take a picture.

01:07:46 ◼   ► then you have them deleted off their phone,

01:07:49 ◼   ► or you let them take a picture,

01:07:50 ◼   ► but then it never left their phone again.

01:07:52 ◼   ► Like there was a violation of the rules,

01:07:53 ◼   ► and technically we could fire you according to,

01:07:56 ◼   ► whatever thing you signed in your employment agreement,

01:07:58 ◼   ► or whatever, but we won't

01:07:59 ◼   ► because the consequences weren't that bad.

01:08:00 ◼   ► But in this case, the consequences were about as bad

01:08:02 ◼   ► as they could possibly be,

01:08:03 ◼   ► and that the entire world saw this video

01:08:06 ◼   ► before they were supposed to see it,

01:08:08 ◼   ► revealing essentially that, yes, you broke the rules,

01:08:11 ◼   ► and now everybody knows you broke the rules.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And if Apple was to allow this to happen,

01:08:15 ◼   ► basically saying, "Our PR doesn't need to actually control the message for new

01:08:21 ◼   ► product introductions. Actually random employees in our cafeteria can also

01:08:26 ◼   ► decide when the public gets to see the phone and in what context." Because that

01:08:30 ◼   ► doesn't undermine our corporate goals at all, this gigantic corporate, like it was

01:08:35 ◼   ► a mistake and it was a fireable offense and it didn't go well. Like it went

01:08:41 ◼   ► pretty poorly when it's on YouTube and spread all over the internet. So it's a

01:08:47 ◼   ► sad story, I feel bad for everybody involved, right? But it's not a surprising

01:08:53 ◼   ► story and I don't think Apple was being excessively mean here because like I

01:08:57 ◼   ► said I think the consequences were actually pretty bad. It may not seem that

01:09:00 ◼   ► bad, be like well everyone knew about the phone whatever, but as we'll discuss in a

01:09:05 ◼   ► moment for probably the one and only topic of the show, Apple has a PR

01:09:09 ◼   ► department whose job it is to control how the world comes to know their products when

01:09:16 ◼   ► they're introduced and no part of the PR plan involves random employees in the cafeteria

01:09:21 ◼   ► posting vlogs about it.

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01:11:14 ◼   ► - This has been an interesting week in Apple PR.

01:11:20 ◼   ► And all of the talking heads like us, I think, have been,

01:11:25 ◼   ► in various degrees, confused, happy, upset,

01:11:29 ◼   ► and enthusiastic and bitter at some point or another.

01:11:34 ◼   ► So help me get the timeline right.

01:11:37 ◼   ► So was it Monday that,

01:11:39 ◼   ► was it Steven Levy's review came out, is that right?

01:11:43 ◼   ► - I believe so.

01:11:44 ◼   ► - Okay, yeah, I might have the details slightly wrong on this

01:11:46 ◼   ► but I think that's right.

01:11:48 ◼   ► So Steven Levy was one of the very small handful of people

01:11:52 ◼   ► that reviewed the original iPhone way back when.

01:11:55 ◼   ► and he was apparently given some sort of blessing to be the first person to get a review posted

01:12:05 ◼   ► of the iPhone X.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Then I believe Tuesday, or maybe it was late Monday, sometime shortly thereafter, it ended

01:12:16 ◼   ► up that we saw that a bunch of YouTubers had, if I understand things right, been offered

01:12:24 ◼   ► to come, it seemed in New York, offered to come in to like an Apple kind of press event

01:12:31 ◼   ► where they could film and use the iPhone 10 and they could film the iPhone 10 and do a

01:12:41 ◼   ► couple minutes with it and they could post their reviews to YouTube late Monday or early

01:12:48 ◼   ► Tuesday.

01:12:50 ◼   ► And my reaction to that was kind of like, "What the hell?"

01:12:56 ◼   ► Because in and of itself, YouTubers getting access wasn't remarkable.

01:13:02 ◼   ► Like, "Okay, fine.

01:13:04 ◼   ► Of course MKBHD had access."

01:13:06 ◼   ► But it wasn't MKBHD.

01:13:08 ◼   ► It was people that I had never heard of, which to be honest is actually probably a good sign

01:13:14 ◼   ► because I don't know who any of the popular YouTubers are.

01:13:16 ◼   ► But it was surprising to me because I'm at least casually aware of most of the popular

01:13:22 ◼   ► tech-related or tech-adjacent YouTubers, like MKBHD, like Casey Neistat and people like

01:13:28 ◼   ► that.

01:13:29 ◼   ► And these people that had access seemed to have a far, numerically anyway, a far smaller

01:13:36 ◼   ► following than the heavy hitters like the Neistats and MKBHDs.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And that was kind of weird.

01:13:43 ◼   ► And naturally, I was a little, maybe offended,

01:13:48 ◼   ► that's probably too strong a word,

01:13:49 ◼   ► but I was a little like,

01:13:50 ◼   ► "Man, why didn't I get a chance at this?

01:13:52 ◼   ► "Like, is podcasting not a thing?

01:13:53 ◼   ► "Does that not count?"

01:13:55 ◼   ► - I gave up on that long ago.

01:13:56 ◼   ► - Oh, I know, I know.

01:13:57 ◼   ► And it's a selfish reaction, full on.

01:14:00 ◼   ► But it's, you know, it was my honest reaction.

01:14:03 ◼   ► And I was kind of, I wasn't upset about it,

01:14:06 ◼   ► but I was kinda like, "What the hell?"

01:14:07 ◼   ► And then I talked with Joseph Polinski and Matt Alexander.

01:14:13 ◼   ► And Matt Alexander put up a really, really great post about kind of, what do you think

01:14:18 ◼   ► about when you're a product company and releasing a new product, and how do you control the

01:14:23 ◼   ► PR?

01:14:25 ◼   ► And I am unfairly summarizing it by saying the takeaway I had from it was that these

01:14:33 ◼   ► YouTubers that I kind of, you know, fluffed off as, "Oh, who are they?

01:14:37 ◼   ► They're not important," they're actually quite important just to circles that I don't pay

01:14:42 ◼   ► attention to. And I'm embarrassed to say that didn't occur to me until I really talked to

01:14:46 ◼   ► Joe and Matt about it, but it seems obvious in retrospect. And that's probably really

01:14:53 ◼   ► smart on Apple's part because the reality of the situation is I'm unlikely to wait very

01:15:00 ◼   ► long to buy an iPhone X. And most of the listeners of this show, given infinite money, would

01:15:06 ◼   ► probably buy an iPhone X tomorrow if they haven't already. So does Apple really need

01:15:12 ◼   ► to convince us to buy an iPhone X? No, not really. But what about the people that care

01:15:19 ◼   ► about fashion or care about things that are not just technology? And so the reactions

01:15:25 ◼   ► to this were varied, some very angry, some confused, some a combination of both. And

01:15:33 ◼   ► then shortly thereafter, I think it was Tuesday morning that all that a lot of the traditional

01:15:38 ◼   ► reviewers like the Groobers of the world, the Jason Snell's, etc. when their embargo

01:15:44 ◼   ► was lifted, and then we got some of the stuff that we expect as Apple nerds. But it's been

01:15:52 ◼   ► an interesting few days watching Apple try to, you know, pull the strings on this puppet

01:15:58 ◼   ► and figure out the best way to get this PR wave orchestrated. I don't know. I've been

01:16:07 ◼   ► We've been talking for a while, thoughts?

01:16:09 ◼   ► - I don't have a lot of thoughts on this.

01:16:11 ◼   ► It just seemed weird.

01:16:13 ◼   ► It seemed like a weird approach,

01:16:14 ◼   ► and it's really hard to talk about this

01:16:16 ◼   ► without somebody saying, "Oh, well, we're just old

01:16:19 ◼   ► "and out of touch because everyone gets everything

01:16:21 ◼   ► "from YouTube now."

01:16:24 ◼   ► I'm not even arguing that people on YouTube

01:16:26 ◼   ► shouldn't get pre-release review unit access.

01:16:30 ◼   ► No, I think they actually should.

01:16:31 ◼   ► I think Apple should go to where the people are.

01:16:33 ◼   ► That makes total sense, and YouTube is where

01:16:35 ◼   ► Many of the people are now, so that makes total sense.

01:16:38 ◼   ► The thing about it that seemed weird to me

01:16:40 ◼   ► is that compared to all past launches like this,

01:16:44 ◼   ► it wasn't weird that they added these YouTube channels

01:16:49 ◼   ► that honestly many of them were not very popular,

01:16:51 ◼   ► as you said.

01:16:52 ◼   ► It wasn't like MKBHD was there at that event

01:16:56 ◼   ► earlier than everyone else.

01:16:57 ◼   ► I don't know, but what seemed weird about it

01:16:59 ◼   ► was not the addition of the people who got it,

01:17:05 ◼   ► but the subtraction of the people who didn't.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Again, it's not weird that YouTubers got access.

01:17:12 ◼   ► It's weird that none of the press did, basically,

01:17:16 ◼   ► and the press that usually does.

01:17:19 ◼   ► As somebody who follows this stuff,

01:17:22 ◼   ► and I always want to read those first reviews,

01:17:25 ◼   ► maybe that makes me a dinosaur,

01:17:28 ◼   ► but for the most part, almost none of the press

01:17:32 ◼   ► that usually gets review units got one at all,

01:17:36 ◼   ► or with more than like 12 hours

01:17:39 ◼   ► before the publishing deadline.

01:17:41 ◼   ► So it was weird as a fan, most of what we have to go on

01:17:45 ◼   ► is very surface level, and that to me

01:17:49 ◼   ► is deeply unsatisfying.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Like I want, I want to like the in-depth reviews

01:17:54 ◼   ► from Gruber and from like the other tech publications

01:17:58 ◼   ► usually get them and to not have that felt weird.

01:18:02 ◼   ► And I don't think it's a good,

01:18:06 ◼   ► I don't think it projects confidence from Apple.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Like, to give so many of these reviewers less than a day

01:18:12 ◼   ► to review their phones suggests that Apple doesn't want them

01:18:16 ◼   ► to spend that much time before they publish their thoughts.

01:18:18 ◼   ► And I don't think that's a, like,

01:18:20 ◼   ► even if the iPhone X is great and by the early reports

01:18:23 ◼   ► it seems like it probably is, that doesn't look good.

01:18:25 ◼   ► Like, that doesn't exude confidence in their product

01:18:28 ◼   ► to say like, we're not even gonna give you enough time

01:18:29 ◼   ► to judge things like battery life or Face ID reliability.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Like, that doesn't look good for the product,

01:18:36 ◼   ► so it's just weird.

01:18:37 ◼   ► So in an ideal world, and I've seen people suggest too,

01:18:40 ◼   ► like, well they didn't have enough to go around,

01:18:42 ◼   ► that's completely wrong.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Like, they have plenty if you can still log on right now

01:18:47 ◼   ► and order one that comes in December, they have plenty.

01:18:49 ◼   ► Apple could have given phones to more reviewers

01:18:52 ◼   ► with more time if they wanted to.

01:18:54 ◼   ► This was clearly a choice not to do that.

01:18:57 ◼   ► And I just think that part is what feels off about this,

01:19:01 ◼   ► that we don't have those in-depth reviews

01:19:05 ◼   ► from tech writers, big publications,

01:19:08 ◼   ► really hardly any of them.

01:19:11 ◼   ► We have basically like three,

01:19:13 ◼   ► and it's weird to have so few.

01:19:16 ◼   ► For such an important product coming out of Apple,

01:19:20 ◼   ► I want more.

01:19:21 ◼   ► - So I think it's easy,

01:19:26 ◼   ► Especially if you've been following Apple for a long time, to start getting into a tail

01:19:33 ◼   ► wagging the dog situation, where you really start to believe that the publications and

01:19:42 ◼   ► people who get early access to Apple stuff and write the reviews that we like to read

01:19:50 ◼   ► are getting it because of some kind of merit that they have.

01:19:57 ◼   ► Like for the original iPhone is a good example.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Like the original iPhone went to Pogue, Mossberg, Ed Beig,

01:20:04 ◼   ► and Levy, I think.

01:20:06 ◼   ► Yeah, get them all there.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Right, but that's-- all right, so that's who it went to.

01:20:09 ◼   ► But the reason we were all comfortable

01:20:13 ◼   ► with that worldview is because it went to Wall Street Journal,

01:20:16 ◼   ► New York Times, USA Today, and--

01:20:18 ◼   ► what was Steven Levy working for then?

01:20:20 ◼   ► I forget, maybe time.

01:20:22 ◼   ► But anyway, famous old people who've been doing this

01:20:25 ◼   ► for a long time working for famous, powerful,

01:20:28 ◼   ► influential old institutions.

01:20:31 ◼   ► And so it fit with the mental model of,

01:20:36 ◼   ► if you're the New York Times, you get the iPhone early.

01:20:39 ◼   ► If you're the Wall Street Journal,

01:20:40 ◼   ► you get the iPhone only.

01:20:41 ◼   ► And even if you're USA Today, which may be McPaper, right?

01:20:45 ◼   ► But it's extremely popular, right?

01:20:48 ◼   ► Of course, USA Today gets one even when we say,

01:20:50 ◼   ► "Oh, USA Today, what is that review?"

01:20:51 ◼   ► And you're gonna be like, "Haha, USA Today," right?

01:20:53 ◼   ► But they're really big.

01:20:55 ◼   ► And so that all fits with our model of like,

01:21:00 ◼   ► the tail being the publications,

01:21:01 ◼   ► wagging the dog that is Apple.

01:21:03 ◼   ► It's like, Apple has no choice.

01:21:04 ◼   ► They have to give it to the Wall Street Journal.

01:21:07 ◼   ► Apple has no choice.

01:21:07 ◼   ► They have to give it to the New York Times,

01:21:08 ◼   ► 'cause the New York Times is just too important, right?

01:21:12 ◼   ► But that's never been the situation.

01:21:14 ◼   ► The tail is not wagging the dog.

01:21:16 ◼   ► Apple has a PR department

01:21:18 ◼   ► whose job it is to choose how best to promote their products to the public.

01:21:23 ◼   ► It just so happens that the strategy chosen by that PR department has fit with the narrative

01:21:30 ◼   ► that the people who get early access get it based on prestige, longtime relationships

01:21:35 ◼   ► with Steve Jobs, longtime in the industry, like whatever criteria that we have come to

01:21:41 ◼   ► accept as like that's the reason they're getting it.

01:21:46 ◼   ► That should never have been the reason they were getting it.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Strictly speaking, it should have been that, like, it's a second degree thing where Apple's

01:21:54 ◼   ► like, "The best way to promote our product is to have the most prestigious newspapers

01:21:59 ◼   ► promoted.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Let's go find the most prestigious newspapers."

01:22:02 ◼   ► So it's a second degree.

01:22:03 ◼   ► It's not as if like, well, we have no choice but to give it to the most prestigious newspapers

01:22:07 ◼   ► because if we don't do that, we'll be hurt.

01:22:09 ◼   ► It's a selection of a strategy and an execution of that strategy.

01:22:13 ◼   ► In recent years, Apple has been changing its strategy a lot more from year to year in terms

01:22:20 ◼   ► of how it does everything.

01:22:22 ◼   ► Like the Mac roundtable showing like Yosemite early in private press briefings distributed

01:22:28 ◼   ► around the country, the incorporation of YouTubers starting several years ago.

01:22:35 ◼   ► From year to year, it's clear that Apple PR is trying different strategies.

01:22:42 ◼   ► depending on what strategy they're executing,

01:22:45 ◼   ► from that follows who gets this.

01:22:48 ◼   ► And there is no like, well, of course,

01:22:51 ◼   ► they have to go to the New York Times.

01:22:52 ◼   ► No, they don't.

01:22:53 ◼   ► They didn't do it this time.

01:22:54 ◼   ► They don't have to go to the Wall Street Journal.

01:22:56 ◼   ► Like, you know, there's no reason

01:22:58 ◼   ► that the Wall Street Journal has to have

01:23:00 ◼   ► the best and most and earliest access

01:23:02 ◼   ► as compared to a YouTuber with not a very big follow.

01:23:06 ◼   ► Like, that's not a rule.

01:23:08 ◼   ► It's just what Apple chooses to do.

01:23:11 ◼   ► Now, I'm not in PR.

01:23:12 ◼   ► I don't know what the best strategy for Apple is,

01:23:15 ◼   ► but this strategy this time around was different

01:23:19 ◼   ► in a way that seemed to break people's mental model

01:23:22 ◼   ► of how PR works and they were forced to realize

01:23:24 ◼   ► that who gets what when is entirely the choice of Apple

01:23:29 ◼   ► on how they think they can best promote their product.

01:23:32 ◼   ► Now you may say that they're wrong,

01:23:33 ◼   ► maybe you're suddenly a PR expert

01:23:34 ◼   ► and you're like Apple, you made a mistake,

01:23:35 ◼   ► you should have given this to these people

01:23:37 ◼   ► and that people in these times or whatever.

01:23:39 ◼   ► But most people on the outside

01:23:40 ◼   ► aren't thinking of it that way.

01:23:41 ◼   ► not thinking how does this put Apple's best foot forward, right? We're thinking of it

01:23:47 ◼   ► as consumers and I am as well. You just want your stories. I want my stories. I want to

01:23:53 ◼   ► read the reviews from the people that I know. And if suddenly you can't read those reviews,

01:23:56 ◼   ► you're like, "Oh, that's sad for me." But it's not about whether you get to read the

01:24:00 ◼   ► reviews from the people you want. Apple doesn't care whether you get to read the reviews from

01:24:03 ◼   ► the people you want unless that influences the success of their product and how it's

01:24:07 ◼   ► received by the public, which maybe it is and maybe that's the argument like, "Oh, because

01:24:10 ◼   ► you didn't give it to Walt Mossboro, he's retired now, but because you didn't give it

01:24:13 ◼   ► to the New York Times as early as possible, now that's going to influence me to not buy

01:24:19 ◼   ► the phone or whatever.

01:24:22 ◼   ► That's not an argument.

01:24:23 ◼   ► So mostly I think it's people had the wrong model of how PR works and that wrong model

01:24:30 ◼   ► was brought into stark relief.

01:24:32 ◼   ► And then a little tiny bit is you move my cheese.

01:24:35 ◼   ► I'm used to always reading these reviews and these people and expecting them to have a

01:24:38 ◼   ► week with the phone beforehand, because it's always been the case, right? And then finally,

01:24:42 ◼   ► the ugliest part of it is, you know, just general bitterness that somebody got the phone and somebody

01:24:50 ◼   ► didn't, right? Now it's easy for us to say here on podcasts where we never get anything, right? So

01:24:54 ◼   ► we didn't lose anything, right? We're always at the bottom of the barrel, right? Although,

01:24:57 ◼   ► I still, there's still room for us to be bitter too, because of course, selfishly, as Casey

01:25:01 ◼   ► pointed out from my perspective, I love that, you know, that more different people get the

01:25:08 ◼   ► iPhone. I'm a more different person too. Like we have a dinky podcast anyway. Yeah. So from

01:25:16 ◼   ► an outsider's perspective, not thinking of it as PR, I wish everybody got all the iPhones

01:25:21 ◼   ► they wanted. If you're doing any kind of stuff on YouTube, on podcasts, if you're writing

01:25:26 ◼   ► a blog, if you're doing anything and you're doing it day after day, year after year, week

01:25:30 ◼   ► after week and you're doing a good job and you have any kind of audience, I think it

01:25:35 ◼   ► should be possible to get review hardware for a phone after it's announced but before

01:25:39 ◼   ► the public can get it.

01:25:41 ◼   ► But that's just like, "Oh, what do you want?"

01:25:43 ◼   ► We're the tail here.

01:25:44 ◼   ► We're not the dog.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Question Apple has to ask is not, "Does this person deserve it or do we feel like we have

01:25:51 ◼   ► to give it because they have a big audience?"

01:25:52 ◼   ► The question is, "What is the best strategy for selling a lot of phones and making people

01:25:57 ◼   ► happy for them?"

01:25:58 ◼   ► And this year, they tried this strategy, which was this weird mix of low-volume YouTubers,

01:26:04 ◼   ► plus traditional media with lead time, plus some traditional media with less lead time,

01:26:10 ◼   ► and they'll see what the result is, and I bet they'll change it next year.

01:26:15 ◼   ► But people getting angry about it, like, it's a human reaction to, you know, they moved

01:26:22 ◼   ► my cheese, like, "I want to read the Walt Mossberg review, but he retired, and now I'm

01:26:26 ◼   ► angry."

01:26:27 ◼   ► like whatever you know like i i i wish uh you know grouper had had the phone for two weeks and

01:26:34 ◼   ► and he didn't well that's life right but you know it i don't think the whole class struggle thing of

01:26:42 ◼   ► like old world tech old white dudes who always get the reviews versus new people i don't think that's

01:26:46 ◼   ► actually the story other than like chiding people for being uh you know for being too

01:26:52 ◼   ► too sort of up their own butts about it like once you start really believing that like

01:26:56 ◼   ► my favorite person deserves to get the phone, you have totally lost the plot about what is going on

01:27:01 ◼   ► here. Some of us are just disappointed that we don't get to read the reviews from the people

01:27:07 ◼   ► that we wanted to read it from at the scale we wanted to read it, but that's just us.

01:27:12 ◼   ► Perhaps this is the most brilliant PR strategy ever for a phone with Apple choosing to do what

01:27:18 ◼   ► it did. We won't know until, maybe we'll never know because we won't know what the results are

01:27:24 ◼   ► are of this as compared to past strategies.

01:27:26 ◼   ► But at the very least, as a less interested outside observer,

01:27:29 ◼   ► because honestly, I do want to read the reviews basically

01:27:33 ◼   ► from people I know personally, like Jason Snell's review.

01:27:36 ◼   ► But that's a position that most people do not

01:27:38 ◼   ► find themselves in.

01:27:40 ◼   ► But none of them are going to influence my buying decision.

01:27:43 ◼   ► What's going to be influenced by my buying decision

01:27:45 ◼   ► is when you two get them, and when I get them,

01:27:47 ◼   ► and when we try them, we talk to each other, like anyone else.

01:27:52 ◼   ► But beyond that, I'm excited by new people getting the phones.

01:27:57 ◼   ► And I'm trying to think with a PR mindset,

01:28:00 ◼   ► why would it be a good idea to give low-volume YouTube

01:28:03 ◼   ► channels early access to the phone?

01:28:05 ◼   ► And I can think of a ton of reasons.

01:28:07 ◼   ► Again, not being anyone who knows anything about PR.

01:28:09 ◼   ► But just thinking about it for a few seconds, first of all,

01:28:13 ◼   ► those people are going to be so grateful.

01:28:15 ◼   ► Like, just like we would be grateful, Apple.

01:28:17 ◼   ► So those people are going to be so grateful to get

01:28:19 ◼   ► early access to the iPhone X. Because they

01:28:21 ◼   ► They know they're not some big channel that has millions and millions of subscribers.

01:28:26 ◼   ► They know how big they are compared to the YouTube world.

01:28:28 ◼   ► They are going to be so grateful to get that.

01:28:30 ◼   ► They're all enthusiastic.

01:28:32 ◼   ► These people love the iPhone.

01:28:34 ◼   ► They love Apple.

01:28:37 ◼   ► You can't buy that enthusiasm.

01:28:38 ◼   ► These people are not jaded, cynical.

01:28:40 ◼   ► I've reviewed every single thing and I just expect to get it and I'm angry if I don't.

01:28:44 ◼   ► They are excited to be there.

01:28:47 ◼   ► going to do things and review things in a way that is different than people who reviewed

01:28:52 ◼   ► a hundred different things.

01:28:54 ◼   ► I see lots of potential interesting upsides to doing what they did.

01:28:58 ◼   ► We already talked about the downsides.

01:29:01 ◼   ► Maybe it makes you look like you're scared that you don't want to give the jaded reviewer

01:29:04 ◼   ► access to your phone because they're just going to tear it apart because they're going

01:29:07 ◼   ► to find all the problems that the person who gets to play with it for ten minutes in an

01:29:11 ◼   ► Apple thing before release isn't going to find, right?

01:29:15 ◼   ► all factors into the decisions, but I'm definitely not angry that more people got access to it.

01:29:22 ◼   ► I'm not even really angry that my favorites didn't get access to it earlier, although

01:29:25 ◼   ► it seems like a lot of them are angry, which I, you know, whatever, if it's your livelihood,

01:29:29 ◼   ► I kind of don't blame them, but that's always the way it's been with Apple. Like, to give

01:29:33 ◼   ► an example from my past, for years and years and years, Ars Technica didn't get crap from

01:29:38 ◼   ► Apple. The Ars Technica could not get, like, they would, not that they wouldn't return

01:29:42 ◼   ► in our calls, but basically like,

01:29:44 ◼   ► they would be nice and polite,

01:29:46 ◼   ► but we could not get anything from Apple.

01:29:49 ◼   ► And eventually that changed.

01:29:51 ◼   ► And it changed because Apple's PR strategy changed.

01:29:55 ◼   ► It's not like we weren't worthy before

01:29:57 ◼   ► and were worthy after,

01:29:58 ◼   ► and it didn't feel good when we couldn't get anything, right?

01:30:02 ◼   ► And it felt good when we could get something,

01:30:04 ◼   ► but the connection between the quality of Ars Technica

01:30:08 ◼   ► and whether or not Apple gave us review hardware

01:30:11 ◼   ► was not the connection people want to think it is.

01:30:13 ◼   ► It is, Apple decides what to do,

01:30:15 ◼   ► and you honestly really have noticed

01:30:17 ◼   ► this important life lesson.

01:30:18 ◼   ► You can't control what other people do or think about you.

01:30:21 ◼   ► The best you can do is just decide how you're going to act

01:30:25 ◼   ► and do your best work and hope for the best.

01:30:27 ◼   ► So that's why we continue to do this podcast,

01:30:29 ◼   ► patiently waiting for Apple to send us

01:30:31 ◼   ► preview Mac Pro hardware.

01:30:33 ◼   ► - Please call us.

01:30:34 ◼   ► How funny would it be if I was the one that got the Mac Pro?

01:30:37 ◼   ► - Not that funny.

01:30:38 ◼   ► Not as funny as you think it is.

01:30:39 ◼   ► I would find it very funny.

01:30:41 ◼   ► Who else are they going to send?

01:30:43 ◼   ► I guess they could send preview Mac Pro hardware to like like actual professionals who are like doing video and stuff, but that's boring. What other

01:30:49 ◼   ► What other

01:30:51 ◼   ► cultural institution cares more about the Mac Pro than this podcast?

01:30:55 ◼   ► Two-thirds of this podcast.

01:30:58 ◼   ► Two out of three hosts in this podcast recommend the Mac Pro that is not yet released.

01:31:03 ◼   ► Oh my word. You know, I should also note that

01:31:07 ◼   ► This is name one bag now. I didn't get a chance to look it up

01:31:10 ◼   ► and I think one of you added it to the show notes, but he had a

01:31:13 ◼   ► relatively

01:31:16 ◼   ► long

01:31:17 ◼   ► kinda rant although I was very

01:31:20 ◼   ► level-headed to be called a rant but a discussion I guess about how

01:31:24 ◼   ► one of the advantages of giving you know, some of these youtubers access is that they're not all old white guys like we are and

01:31:31 ◼   ► there's a lot to be said for that and I think John you touched on this a minute ago, but

01:31:36 ◼   ► That's an improvement no matter how you slice it. That's an improvement to the PR strategy now

01:31:41 ◼   ► It does it have to be at the cost of old white dudes

01:31:43 ◼   ► Maybe maybe not I don't know but certainly reaching more diverse voices is a good thing for Apple

01:31:50 ◼   ► So you should check that out if you have about I think it was a little less than 10 minutes to spare

01:31:55 ◼   ► And like so many things in this world the older like the farther you go back in time the more likely it is that all

01:32:02 ◼   ► The people in positions of power are old white dudes, right?

01:32:04 ◼   ► And so any PR strategy that focuses on old white dudes is necessarily back in time.

01:32:14 ◼   ► Like we hope that we're making progress on all fronts and that there is a more diverse set of voices out there,

01:32:19 ◼   ► especially with the dawning of the internet and the lowering of the barriers to entry.

01:32:22 ◼   ► And if Apple was still pursuing the same strategy they did in 2007 with the iPhone and only giving it to old white dudes who work for newspapers,

01:32:30 ◼   ► like we would all agree that's an outdated strategy, right?

01:32:34 ◼   ► If they simply shift and say we should give it to new media as they did as they started giving it to websites like ours

01:32:40 ◼   ► Texting and stuff like that new media you would hope has better ratios of you know

01:32:46 ◼   ► men and women and

01:32:49 ◼   ► Different races like you would hope that purely by moving to new media you get more diversity

01:32:54 ◼   ► and that's before you even consider should we actual tart actually target diverse reviewers because

01:33:01 ◼   ► We're leaving money on the table if we don't do that, right?

01:33:04 ◼   ► And so it's not even clear to me that there was a specific effort to target more diverse

01:33:12 ◼   ► reviewers at this point.

01:33:13 ◼   ► I think it's a natural consequence of targeting modern media.

01:33:19 ◼   ► And again, it's not the first time they've done anything with YouTube where we were commenting

01:33:22 ◼   ► about the fact that they're not giving us the most popular YouTube channels or whatever.

01:33:26 ◼   ► But that is the promise and the beauty of the internet and YouTube and blogs and every

01:33:31 ◼   ► other sort of form of media without as many people preventing you from doing it.

01:33:40 ◼   ► Anyone can put up a blog, anyone can put up something on YouTube, and that is allowing

01:33:45 ◼   ► us to hear from people we previously didn't hear from.

01:33:47 ◼   ► They were there, we just didn't hear from them because they weren't hired by the New

01:33:50 ◼   ► York Times, right?

01:33:51 ◼   ► So that is all positive and a conscious shift towards modern media, like podcasts, which

01:33:58 ◼   ► which are super modern, but also still dominated by white dudes. Sorry. I think that is all

01:34:06 ◼   ► positive and, if anything, Apple should lean even more heavily in that direction because

01:34:10 ◼   ► all those voices are still underrepresented in modern media as well. It's just, like I

01:34:15 ◼   ► said, the older the people get and the farther you go back in time, the worse it gets in

01:34:19 ◼   ► terms of diversity, even if you're not doing anything different. Even if you're not consciously

01:34:22 ◼   ► trying to just give it to white dudes, if you want to give it to old people who work

01:34:26 ◼   ► in newspapers, that's what you're gonna end up with

01:34:28 ◼   ► much more so than if you wanna give it

01:34:29 ◼   ► to popular YouTubers.

01:34:31 ◼   ► - So now that we've discussed the completely insular

01:34:35 ◼   ► Brew-haha, what do we think of these reviews?

01:34:38 ◼   ► It sounds like this is a pretty solid phone.

01:34:41 ◼   ► - I don't have time to review so many of them.

01:34:43 ◼   ► - Yeah. (laughs)

01:34:44 ◼   ► No, I mean, my one hesitation basically is like,

01:34:48 ◼   ► almost nobody has had a chance to really live with it

01:34:50 ◼   ► for more than like a couple days.

01:34:53 ◼   ► So the initial impressions are great.

01:34:54 ◼   ► So I think I'm confident enough with all these reviews

01:34:57 ◼   ► that my first day with the phone

01:34:59 ◼   ► is probably gonna be awesome.

01:35:01 ◼   ► I just don't know what's gonna happen after that.

01:35:03 ◼   ► But it does seem pretty positive.

01:35:05 ◼   ► If nothing else, it was frustrating to see all that PR stuff

01:35:09 ◼   ► because almost every one of the YouTube quick takes

01:35:13 ◼   ► and even many of the press quick takes

01:35:15 ◼   ► were just kind of restating Apple's own PR points

01:35:19 ◼   ► about like, look, Animoji exists and it's new and shiny.

01:35:23 ◼   ► It's coming out soon.

01:35:25 ◼   ► And there wasn't much that we didn't already know.

01:35:27 ◼   ► Whenever we learn details of new things about it

01:35:30 ◼   ► that I didn't already know,

01:35:31 ◼   ► and that's one of the reasons why I like

01:35:32 ◼   ► Jason Snell's reviews so much,

01:35:33 ◼   ► and why I liked the upgraded podcast this week so much,

01:35:36 ◼   ► because it's packed full of actually new information

01:35:41 ◼   ► that we didn't already know as enthusiasts

01:35:43 ◼   ► who follow this stuff and who already saw the keynote.

01:35:45 ◼   ► So many of the articles and reviews and YouTube things

01:35:50 ◼   ► are just rehashes of the keynote event, basically.

01:35:53 ◼   ► And so to hear anything new is great.

01:35:55 ◼   ► And as we've heard new things from the very few sources

01:35:59 ◼   ► that have new things to report so far,

01:36:01 ◼   ► it just sounds really great.

01:36:03 ◼   ► It sounds awesome.

01:36:05 ◼   ► And I am very much looking forward to it.

01:36:08 ◼   ► I can't wait until Friday at 9 p.m.

01:36:11 ◼   ► when the overworked UPS server finally gets here.

01:36:15 ◼   ► I cannot wait for that

01:36:17 ◼   ► because I'm really looking forward to it.

01:36:18 ◼   ► It sounds like what I have wanted

01:36:22 ◼   ► ever since the iPhone Plus came out three years ago,

01:36:26 ◼   ► when was that, three years ago?

01:36:28 ◼   ► Ever since then, it's what I've wanted,

01:36:30 ◼   ► which is I would like the benefits of that

01:36:33 ◼   ► in a smaller body that I can actually hold

01:36:35 ◼   ► more easily than the big one.

01:36:37 ◼   ► And so this seems to offer basically that.

01:36:41 ◼   ► There's a few things that are different.

01:36:42 ◼   ► The screen is taller and skinnier.

01:36:45 ◼   ► It isn't the same aspect ratio and width as the Plus phone,

01:36:49 ◼   ► but it seems like we have the best of everything

01:36:52 ◼   ► this phone finally and that's gonna be really great.

01:36:56 ◼   ► I am a little concerned about reachability,

01:36:58 ◼   ► of the vertical reachability,

01:37:01 ◼   ► but I'm kinda looking forward to it.

01:37:03 ◼   ► As an app developer, I finally, I shipped Overcast 4,

01:37:08 ◼   ► it should be out by the time this show is edited

01:37:09 ◼   ► if everything goes well.

01:37:10 ◼   ► Now I have a giant canvas to play with

01:37:14 ◼   ► and now I have a whole UI to rethink.

01:37:16 ◼   ► I haven't really done much of that yet.

01:37:18 ◼   ► I basically just expanded the existing UI

01:37:21 ◼   ► to fill the screen properly because I didn't want to do any redesign work without actually

01:37:26 ◼   ► having it in my hand physically to test with and to see like how does this actually feel,

01:37:31 ◼   ► what can I actually reach, you know, things like that. But I'm looking forward to this

01:37:35 ◼   ► new era of kind of having to rethink everything. It's a ton of work for developers as I mentioned

01:37:41 ◼   ► last week but I think it's going to be really nice when we get there and I'm really looking

01:37:46 ◼   ► forward to having all this real estate on the screen to play with. You know, my

01:37:50 ◼   ► now playing screen can have so many more features now that I have like a tall

01:37:55 ◼   ► skinny aspect ratio. So like I'm looking forward to it both as a developer and as

01:37:59 ◼   ► a user and as a fan of this stuff and I'm happy to see so far that the

01:38:04 ◼   ► reviews, shallow as many of them are, are seemingly universally positive and it

01:38:11 ◼   ► seems like everyone loves face ID, it seems like it's really fast, it seems

01:38:14 ◼   ► like it does, it's not perfect, but it's close enough

01:38:16 ◼   ► and people don't seem to notice it much anymore,

01:38:18 ◼   ► which is awesome.

01:38:19 ◼   ► Overall, I'm very excited.

01:38:21 ◼   ► I'm very happy and thankful I got a day one order in

01:38:25 ◼   ► and I just can't wait to get it.

01:38:27 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:38:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm mostly relieved that FaceTime works

01:38:31 ◼   ► as we always hoped it would. - Face ID.

01:38:33 ◼   ► - Sorry, yes, Face ID.

01:38:36 ◼   ► Because that was my big fear, that Face ID would be good,

01:38:41 ◼   ► but just barely under the threshold of annoyance.

01:38:46 ◼   ► And every review I've read so far has said it's fine.

01:38:50 ◼   ► Like it does, it works like Apple says it's supposed to

01:38:53 ◼   ► within the parameters that they set out,

01:38:54 ◼   ► there are no surprises and it feels good to use.

01:38:57 ◼   ► It's different, but as someone who spent a long time

01:39:00 ◼   ► with touch ID phones, you know, we all know

01:39:04 ◼   ► and have internalized the vagaries of touch ID.

01:39:07 ◼   ► No wet fingers, sometimes doesn't get it on the first try

01:39:09 ◼   ► You got to pick up your finger and put it down again.

01:39:12 ◼   ► Every once in a while you get the code thrown in your face.

01:39:16 ◼   ► And we just accept that as the price of living with Touch ID.

01:39:19 ◼   ► Face ID has all the equivalents of that.

01:39:21 ◼   ► It's too far away from me.

01:39:22 ◼   ► There's bright sun.

01:39:24 ◼   ► You know, my identical twin can unlock my phone.

01:39:27 ◼   ► All sorts of things like, yes, every one of these things has inherent problems.

01:39:30 ◼   ► But the videos I've seen about how long it takes to unlock, like people going down and

01:39:37 ◼   ► doing a timing and a stopwatch and everything like that shows me so far, not having used

01:39:41 ◼   ► one of these myself, that it seems like it's under the threshold, like that it's acceptable.

01:39:48 ◼   ► And like Touch ID was in the first iteration, Touch ID in the first iteration was also,

01:39:53 ◼   ► like, you know, it was obviously a vast improvement over typing in code, but it got better in

01:39:57 ◼   ► the second.

01:39:58 ◼   ► So I'm already looking forward to the second one, but the first one, like there's no catastrophic

01:40:02 ◼   ► problem, like, "Oh my goodness, this phone hinges on Face ID, and Face ID is just too

01:40:07 ◼   ► annoying to use, that does not appear to be the case."

01:40:10 ◼   ► So I'm relieved in that case.

01:40:13 ◼   ► And there are a few reviews I've read in full, like Jason's, and I've read some of

01:40:18 ◼   ► Panzareno's, like their take on the phone obviously speaks to me the most because they

01:40:24 ◼   ► come from the same experiences that I do.

01:40:26 ◼   ► But getting back to the PR thing briefly, all those reviews, they're like, "Oh, this

01:40:29 ◼   ► is a shallow review and doesn't tell me anything that I didn't already know. The people who

01:40:33 ◼   ► watch that video don't know all the things that we already know because they didn't pore

01:40:37 ◼   ► over the keynote and do a three hour podcast about it. That's all new information to the

01:40:41 ◼   ► people who watch that channel. People who watch that channel have seen like an advertisement

01:40:45 ◼   ► and some images on articles that didn't read and everything they're being told they're

01:40:48 ◼   ► learning it for the first time from a trusted face that they know, right? That's so again

01:40:53 ◼   ► if I had to put myself my PR hat on and think like if you you know how do you imagine PR

01:40:57 ◼   ► might work, reaching people who aren't, you know, pouring over everything that comes from

01:41:05 ◼   ► Apple, those reviews aren't shallow to them.

01:41:08 ◼   ► That is a giant info dump as far as they're concerned.

01:41:10 ◼   ► Yeah, we're hearing things that were like, "Yeah, yeah, I knew that, I knew that, I knew

01:41:13 ◼   ► that."

01:41:14 ◼   ► But the people who are watching those videos on those channels that are not tech-related

01:41:18 ◼   ► didn't know any of that stuff.

01:41:19 ◼   ► And they're seeing the new iPhone for the very first time.

01:41:22 ◼   ► Maybe they don't even understand what a big deal it is.

01:41:24 ◼   ► Like, "Whatever, the new iPhone, is it out yet?

01:41:25 ◼   ► Can you buy it?

01:41:26 ◼   ► my friends already have it, they don't know.

01:41:29 ◼   ► Those are channels that were probably being underserved

01:41:32 ◼   ► by just giving it to the tech columnists

01:41:34 ◼   ► in the Wall Street Journal

01:41:35 ◼   ► and a bunch of Apple blogger nerds.

01:41:37 ◼   ► So again, I can imagine all sorts of potential upsides

01:41:41 ◼   ► to the strategy that Apple took.

01:41:44 ◼   ► Even someone like MKBHD has a nerd audience.

01:41:47 ◼   ► Like that's a nerdy channel, right?

01:41:48 ◼   ► It's not the same as giving it to someone

01:41:50 ◼   ► who works for a fashion magazine.

01:41:52 ◼   ► It's a different audience

01:41:53 ◼   ► and Apple's reaching different people with this strategy.

01:41:55 ◼   ► Now, who was that? I think it was Marco or Casey. Which one of you brought up the subtracting

01:42:01 ◼   ► people?

01:42:02 ◼   ► Me.

01:42:03 ◼   ► That's part of the strategy of not giving it to the other institutions. I have more

01:42:08 ◼   ► trouble thinking up a reason for that other than they were afraid that the cranky sort

01:42:16 ◼   ► of, you know, the old guard would be more likely to spend time focusing on the flaws

01:42:22 ◼   ► and less time being excited about the cool stuff.

01:42:25 ◼   ► But that's just a theory.

01:42:27 ◼   ► And again, I think Apple PR tries things

01:42:30 ◼   ► and looks at the results and adjusts their strategy.

01:42:32 ◼   ► And they've done it so many times

01:42:33 ◼   ► that I give them leeway to try this strategy

01:42:35 ◼   ► and we'll see what they do with the next one.

01:42:38 ◼   ► - All right, thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:42:39 ◼   ► Casper, Betterment, and Jamf Now.

01:42:42 ◼   ► And we'll see you next week.

01:42:44 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

01:42:46 ◼   ► ♪ Now the show is over ♪

01:42:49 ◼   ► ♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪

01:42:51 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:42:57 ◼   ► John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him

01:43:02 ◼   ► 'Cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental

01:43:07 ◼   ► And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:43:13 ◼   ► And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them

01:43:17 ◼   ► at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S, so that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M,

01:43:26 ◼   ► N-T-Marco-Armin, S-I-R-A-C, U-S-A-S-C-Racusa.

01:43:33 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:43:35 ◼   ► It's accidental.

01:43:36 ◼   ► They didn't mean to.

01:43:39 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:43:40 ◼   ► Accidental.

01:43:41 ◼   ► Tech podcast so long.

01:43:46 ◼   ► I have some after show things to ask Casey about. So I am super behind on Twitter.

01:43:51 ◼   ► Casey, have you already posted your video review of the Alpha?

01:43:57 ◼   ► No, good God no. Yeah, Marco and I spoke about this a little bit in the pre-show,

01:44:02 ◼   ► and I have purchased Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Pro X, whatever it is.

01:44:09 ◼   ► This free car is already costing you money.

01:44:11 ◼   ► Oh, is it ever.

01:44:12 ◼   ► I did post a like literally eight second teaser to Twitter earlier today.

01:44:19 ◼   ► I stopped that teaser deliberately right before I got to Quadrifoglio because I didn't want

01:44:24 ◼   ► to have the entire internet make fun of me for pronouncing that incorrectly.

01:44:29 ◼   ► So I am pleased with the progress I'm making on the video, but I have made very little

01:44:36 ◼   ► progress and it is slow going.

01:44:38 ◼   ► But that progress that has been made I'm pleased with.

01:44:40 ◼   ► So I am actually, I did actually see that clip, so that's how far behind I am on Twitter.

01:44:44 ◼   ► I think I just read that before we sat down podcasting, and I have one piece of advice.

01:44:48 ◼   ► I watched it with mute on so I didn't hear any of the audio, but what I did see is one

01:44:53 ◼   ► of the default fonts for iMoves for titles.

01:44:56 ◼   ► Everyone got so cranky about that.

01:44:58 ◼   ► Do not use that font.

01:45:00 ◼   ► Everyone got so cranky about that.

01:45:03 ◼   ► I don't believe, I don't think it was the default.

01:45:06 ◼   ► Now I'm not arguing it was one of a short list of options, completely correct, but it

01:45:12 ◼   ► was not the default I don't believe, and I have since changed it to Futura because I

01:45:16 ◼   ► haven't come up with a better plan yet.

01:45:18 ◼   ► Well, I was gonna, if you hadn't changed that I would have said, let me put it this way,

01:45:23 ◼   ► that's the font I use on my Destiny videos.

01:45:25 ◼   ► You should be aiming higher than that.

01:45:26 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:45:27 ◼   ► Well Casey, you know, if you have a bunch of people complaining that your font isn't

01:45:30 ◼   ► good enough, you only have two options.

01:45:33 ◼   ► Comic Sans and Papyrus.

01:45:34 ◼   ► Well, I know avatar already used for pirates. You don't want to be confused with that was hard

01:45:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean so far so good

01:45:42 ◼   ► I can certainly send the two of you guys a draft if you give a crap so for the the first two seconds

01:45:47 ◼   ► I saw that also again with mute on or whatever seven seconds or whatever it was

01:45:51 ◼   ► Mm-hmm don't take this the wrong way, but it's hard for me to tell whether you are doing an homage to the

01:45:58 ◼   ► Car-review channels that you watch and love or a parody of them

01:46:02 ◼   ► I don't feel like you should feel constrained by the formats that have come before. Yes,

01:46:09 ◼   ► we've all seen these other car channels, but I don't think you need to do a car review the

01:46:16 ◼   ► way you do them. You can do them the Casey way. Now, maybe it starts by saying, "I'm going to

01:46:20 ◼   ► imitate the channels that I know and love," or maybe you are sending them up, or maybe half of

01:46:25 ◼   ► it is the joke that you are exactly following the format of the channels that you like, but it's

01:46:29 ◼   ► funny because it's you doing it right I don't know I have been sound was off but

01:46:34 ◼   ► I would encourage you to spread your wings and fly and do whatever the hell

01:46:38 ◼   ► kind of car view you want to do your assessment is semi correct so I need to

01:46:45 ◼   ► pull from somewhere right like I'm not a creative enough person that I can just

01:46:49 ◼   ► fart out like this brand new paradigm yes you are you're an excellent farter

01:46:53 ◼   ► Casey I am a very good farter they're full of gas everybody loves it but is

01:46:58 ◼   ► Is that a marketable skill?

01:47:00 ◼   ► We wish.

01:47:01 ◼   ► Because if so...

01:47:02 ◼   ► Yeah, the three of us, we've got that on lock.

01:47:04 ◼   ► No, I need somewhere to start from, and my starting point, and certainly the first seven

01:47:10 ◼   ► seconds completely bears this out, and you are right, but my starting point is kind of

01:47:15 ◼   ► mostly Doug DeMuro style review, but the formula is not identical.

01:47:22 ◼   ► It's not a bunch of quirks, then in-car video, then Doug's score.

01:47:29 ◼   ► It's not going to be quite that formulaic, but I do start with some of me talking around

01:47:33 ◼   ► the outside of the car, then me talking about—well, that's about all I've got so far—that the

01:47:37 ◼   ► intention is of me talking about the inside of the car, but very little in the realm of

01:47:43 ◼   ► quirks and more about just what does it feel like to drive a Giulia.

01:47:48 ◼   ► And then a little bit of ride-along footage, which I actually think will probably be pretty

01:47:51 ◼   ► brief because all it's going to be is me giggling about how fast it is and how good it sounds.

01:47:57 ◼   ► And then a little bit at the end, which is again me standing in front of the car outside.

01:48:05 ◼   ► And I have a couple of, I feel like this is, if it goes the way I intend, it's going to

01:48:12 ◼   ► be part Doug DeMuro, part CGP Grey.

01:48:17 ◼   ► that I have some…

01:48:18 ◼   ► That's going to be stick figures at some point.

01:48:21 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no. Well, not really.

01:48:23 ◼   ► That would be awesome.

01:48:24 ◼   ► So that… I don't know if you saw it, Jon. This might have been before you jumped on

01:48:29 ◼   ► the call, but I put in the chat a link to a still picture that I had taken, which is

01:48:36 ◼   ► of the three key fobs. And so, yeah, this was when you were here, because you were talking

01:48:40 ◼   ► about the accord key fob.

01:48:41 ◼   ► Yep, yep, I saw it.

01:48:43 ◼   ► And the schtick with that is that is like the final frame in me building up to what

01:48:51 ◼   ► you see.

01:48:52 ◼   ► So as the voiceover is going, I have just a white sheet of paper, and then you see the

01:48:58 ◼   ► BMW E90 key appear, and then the next quote-unquote frame, which is probably 30 literal frames

01:49:05 ◼   ► later, you see the E90 having been written, and then you see the F30 key appear 30 frames

01:49:11 ◼   ► later the f30 key rate that's that's been written you see what I'm saying so

01:49:15 ◼   ► there's like a there's some gags not gags that's too strong a word but like

01:49:19 ◼   ► some cutesy timing that I'm trying to do for a couple of these things is that on

01:49:24 ◼   ► top of a toilet tank no also screw you that's my trunk you bastard that's a

01:49:30 ◼   ► white car it's hard to tell you two are the worst that's funny but you two are

01:49:38 ◼   ► the worst. God bless America. That just shows how clean he keeps his car. It's so polished.

01:49:45 ◼   ► You thought I was a toilet. Anyway, but the reason I say it's vaguely CGP Grey-ish is

01:49:51 ◼   ► that I think one of the ten--tenant is the word I'm looking for--one of the like shticks

01:49:57 ◼   ► with the CGP Grey video is being cutesy with the timing. And I mean that in a complimentary

01:50:01 ◼   ► You know, like things are happening visually on beats, verbal beats, and so

01:50:08 ◼   ► there's like a little bit of that going on and there's a little bit of that with regard to the interior as well.

01:50:15 ◼   ► I hope I can trim it down. Like it's a couple of minutes long. How long is this? It's three minutes right now and it has

01:50:23 ◼   ► probably a third of the footage I want, maybe even a little less than that, and I'm aiming for between five and ten minutes.

01:50:30 ◼   ► I think the 20 minute to Miro Doug DeMiro reviews

01:50:33 ◼   ► That's way too much for me today if I get in the habit of doing this

01:50:36 ◼   ► Maybe I'll get in the habit of doing you know 20 minute reviews one day eventually

01:50:41 ◼   ► But for my first crack at this I really hope to stay under 10 and would prefer to be closer to 5

01:50:47 ◼   ► But I I think it'll be 10 or it may be even more than that

01:50:50 ◼   ► Just don't spend a lot of time on the owners manual on the spare tire, and you'll be fine

01:50:54 ◼   ► Sorry, Doug. Okay noted I

01:50:58 ◼   ► deeply regret not having bought or rented or done something to get a lav mic.

01:51:03 ◼   ► I think the audio quality is I'm going to get dinged for pretty bad to the point that I am debating

01:51:09 ◼   ► actually trying to dub. ADR. Yeah.

01:51:12 ◼   ► I feel like bad audio on your first YouTube video featuring yourself is a rite of passage for everybody who's not Marco.

01:51:19 ◼   ► Yeah, that's probably true actually. Even I only had mediocre audio.

01:51:22 ◼   ► No, but you were way above the normal bar

01:51:25 ◼   ► Which is like you sounds like you're talking to a laptop microphone from across the room

01:51:29 ◼   ► Everybody's first YouTube video has to be like that. I think it's the rule. Yeah. I mean I was wearing a lot of Mike

01:51:33 ◼   ► Just a crappy one

01:51:35 ◼   ► I had crappy lava

01:51:37 ◼   ► You still sounded way way better than what people's first YouTube video supposed to sound like. Yeah

01:51:42 ◼   ► No, I mean I would say Casey like it's better to like and and I'm saying this to myself as much as you because when I

01:51:49 ◼   ► Tried to do a like nice looking YouTube video with my MacBook Pro review

01:51:52 ◼   ► do like I look back on it recently and it's like I can't. I can't even watch

01:51:57 ◼   ► it. It's so bad like at the time. I didn't think it was that bad now and

01:52:01 ◼   ► looking back on it now. I think it's really bad and I it's painful for me to

01:52:04 ◼   ► even see it.

01:52:05 ◼   ► Some of the one of the lessons I learned from that that I wish I would have

01:52:09 ◼   ► learned before I made it is it's better to do a better job at a format. You can

01:52:15 ◼   ► do better than to then to aim too high with with the format or style that you

01:52:21 ◼   ► want to create and do a bad job of it.

01:52:24 ◼   ► And that's what I did.

01:52:26 ◼   ► I aimed too high and I tried to create a much higher

01:52:29 ◼   ► production value video than what my skill and experience

01:52:33 ◼   ► and to some degree equipment was actually capable of.

01:52:36 ◼   ► But this is mostly not an equipment problem.

01:52:39 ◼   ► This is mostly a skill and experience problem.

01:52:41 ◼   ► And the fact is, we've made so few videos,

01:52:45 ◼   ► I don't know if you have a better knack at it than I do,

01:52:47 ◼   ► it's hard to have a worse knack at it than I do.

01:52:49 ◼   ► If I make any more videos, I'm going to try to make them

01:52:52 ◼   ► in a more casual way with lower production value

01:52:55 ◼   ► intentionally to prevent me from getting too much

01:52:58 ◼   ► in the weeds here because like, you know,

01:53:01 ◼   ► you might be thinking about fixing your audio,

01:53:03 ◼   ► that's cool, you should have good audio if you can,

01:53:04 ◼   ► but that's probably not gonna be your biggest challenge.

01:53:07 ◼   ► Your biggest challenge is gonna be like things that

01:53:11 ◼   ► people who make video more and who are experienced

01:53:14 ◼   ► and/or trained with it are better.

01:53:16 ◼   ► So things like composition, timing, cutting, motion,

01:53:20 ◼   ► color correction, stuff that casual beginners

01:53:25 ◼   ► just don't get or need experience to develop to get.

01:53:29 ◼   ► And because we've made so few videos,

01:53:34 ◼   ► we don't have that yet.

01:53:36 ◼   ► So it's better, I think, to aim for something more casual,

01:53:40 ◼   ► less produced, less fancy, and just put that out there

01:53:46 ◼   ► than to try to make something super professional

01:53:49 ◼   ► when you don't have the tool set or the skill set

01:53:52 ◼   ► or the experience to be able to achieve

01:53:55 ◼   ► the look you're going for yet.

01:53:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think that makes sense.

01:53:58 ◼   ► And I think, I feel like my aspiration

01:54:03 ◼   ► is to have something that feels like,

01:54:06 ◼   ► or even feels vaguely like a cross of DeMuro and Grey.

01:54:10 ◼   ► Not to say that that's my marching orders,

01:54:12 ◼   ► but that somebody could watch this film

01:54:16 ◼   ► or whatever you want to call it, this video,

01:54:18 ◼   ► and say, "Yeah, I see what he was going for there.

01:54:20 ◼   ► And I can see a little sprinkle of demure

01:54:22 ◼   ► and a little sprinkle of gray there.

01:54:23 ◼   ► And okay, he didn't get there,

01:54:26 ◼   ► but I see where this line is heading."

01:54:29 ◼   ► Well, you can't really have a line

01:54:30 ◼   ► if it's only one data point,

01:54:30 ◼   ► but you know what I'm saying?

01:54:32 ◼   ► I understand where he's going with this.

01:54:33 ◼   ► And yeah, that was a bit ham-fisted here.

01:54:35 ◼   ► The audio is crappy there, but there's promise here.

01:54:40 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

01:54:40 ◼   ► Like, I feel like it is within my skillset

01:54:45 ◼   ► to get in the vicinity of this perfect video

01:54:50 ◼   ► that I have in my brain.

01:54:51 ◼   ► And I don't think I'm gonna deliver the perfect video

01:54:54 ◼   ► that's in my brain, but I do feel like the things

01:54:57 ◼   ► I'm asking of myself, I'm reaching to get to them,

01:55:01 ◼   ► but I think they're by and large attainable,

01:55:06 ◼   ► which is the best place to be, right?

01:55:09 ◼   ► Where you're uncomfortable but not.

01:55:10 ◼   ► And so that's where I think I am.

01:55:14 ◼   ► remind me of this when the video's released

01:55:15 ◼   ► in Sutter Garbage.

01:55:16 ◼   ► - Well, and the thing is too,

01:55:18 ◼   ► you're comparing yourself to people who are such pros.

01:55:22 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:55:23 ◼   ► - Well, Doug D'Amiro, come on.

01:55:25 ◼   ► - D'Amiro is good.

01:55:26 ◼   ► - I'll give you a quick story here.

01:55:29 ◼   ► So, Grey's gonna be so embarrassed that I'm saying this,

01:55:32 ◼   ► but oh well.

01:55:33 ◼   ► Sorry, Grey.

01:55:34 ◼   ► I don't wanna give any details really

01:55:36 ◼   ► in case it embarrasses anybody,

01:55:37 ◼   ► but at some point I witnessed somebody asking Grey

01:55:42 ◼   ► for a critique on a video.

01:55:45 ◼   ► He like kinda went on his phone for a few minutes

01:55:48 ◼   ► and the conversation went elsewhere.

01:55:49 ◼   ► And about 15 minutes later, he showed on his phone,

01:55:53 ◼   ► he had, just on his phone, he had recut the entire video

01:55:58 ◼   ► and was showing frame by frame, and I saw before and after,

01:56:02 ◼   ► and his was way better just by recutting the footage

01:56:06 ◼   ► that he was given in this video.

01:56:08 ◼   ► And he was able to explain why he rearranged things,

01:56:11 ◼   ► he trimmed things differently, why he,

01:56:14 ◼   ► like certain scenes flowed into the other ones

01:56:15 ◼   ► better than the other ones and how this reordering

01:56:18 ◼   ► and recutting of this completely changed

01:56:21 ◼   ► the feel and pace and overall quality of this video.

01:56:25 ◼   ► And to see him do that, it's like,

01:56:27 ◼   ► I imagine like when non-tech people see tech people

01:56:33 ◼   ► like whiz through a problem on the computer super fast

01:56:35 ◼   ► and it blows their mind, that's how I felt watching this.

01:56:38 ◼   ► Like I'm like, oh my god, like that's,

01:56:40 ◼   ► And this is a skill set that people like Gray have,

01:56:43 ◼   ► 'cause they're very experienced with this,

01:56:45 ◼   ► and they're very good at it.

01:56:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:56:47 ◼   ► - When I compare how, the way I approach making a video

01:56:52 ◼   ► to the way that I saw a pro do it,

01:56:56 ◼   ► my God, it worlds apart.

01:56:58 ◼   ► I don't even have the vocabulary to describe

01:57:05 ◼   ► what it is that he was doing and why it was better,

01:57:08 ◼   ► but it was way better.

01:57:10 ◼   ► And the way he was explaining it,

01:57:13 ◼   ► like it made total sense,

01:57:15 ◼   ► but I could never come up with that.

01:57:16 ◼   ► And so like, you're getting started in this.

01:57:19 ◼   ► You know, you don't have a lot of video experience, right?

01:57:21 ◼   ► Like you don't have like a secret YouTube career

01:57:24 ◼   ► that we didn't know about?

01:57:25 ◼   ► - No, and for those who listen to this,

01:57:27 ◼   ► if this makes the released version of the show,

01:57:29 ◼   ► like I have never ever edited a podcast, truly.

01:57:32 ◼   ► I never have, not once.

01:57:33 ◼   ► Because it's always been either you or Mike

01:57:35 ◼   ► you know, one of your minions that has done it for you.

01:57:38 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, man, we got an organization full of minions here.

01:57:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, the two of you,

01:57:42 ◼   ► just minions all the way down.

01:57:44 ◼   ► But you know what I mean?

01:57:45 ◼   ► Like I've never even edited a podcast.

01:57:47 ◼   ► So I've dabbled in iMovie a couple times

01:57:49 ◼   ► and I think I've dabbled in GarageBand maybe once,

01:57:52 ◼   ► but these are tools that I am not familiar with.

01:57:56 ◼   ► So I'm just kind of hacking at it.

01:57:58 ◼   ► You know, I feel like I'm going through the jungle,

01:58:00 ◼   ► not with a machete, but with like a pocket knife.

01:58:03 ◼   ► and I do feel like I'm making forward progress, but unequivocally what I release is going

01:58:10 ◼   ► to look ham-fisted. What I hope, though, is that once you get past the crap audio, and

01:58:16 ◼   ► once you get past the fact that the timing is wrong, once you get past the fact that

01:58:19 ◼   ► inevitably this video will run longer than it should—and I'm going to try my damnedest

01:58:23 ◼   ► to cut it down, but I know it'll end up running too long—I hope that you, the collective

01:58:29 ◼   ► of you can see this and say, "I see the start of something here. It's probably not the end,

01:58:38 ◼   ► hopefully not the end. And this, I can see how this is going to get better with time."

01:58:44 ◼   ► And part of the way I've tried to do that is I do feel like my review, my video review,

01:58:49 ◼   ► is going to have a bit of a narrative. I feel like I can, I have created an arc, and I even

01:58:54 ◼   ► took some engineering paper from college and like drew out like really crudely drawn storyboards,

01:58:58 ◼   ► which I think I put on like my Insta stories.

01:59:00 ◼   ► - I saw those, I thought that was adorable.

01:59:03 ◼   ► - But it's, I mean, that's how I'm trying to like

01:59:05 ◼   ► frame it in my head.

01:59:06 ◼   ► - 'Cause you were doing it on real pencil and paper,

01:59:08 ◼   ► like your Mike Hurley or something.

01:59:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, which is barbaric,

01:59:12 ◼   ► but it's the best way I could come up with

01:59:13 ◼   ► to try to like reason through the story I wanna tell.

01:59:17 ◼   ► And I think if I didn't at least have the beginnings

01:59:21 ◼   ► in that regard, I would be totally lost

01:59:24 ◼   ► and this video would never come out.

01:59:26 ◼   ► But since I have--

01:59:26 ◼   ► could have done an Xcode storyboard, finally find a use for it.

01:59:31 ◼   ► That's true. But I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way is this is going to be embarrassing

01:59:38 ◼   ► when I release it, if I do at all. It may be so embarrassing that I don't release it

01:59:41 ◼   ► or I only send it to my friends.

01:59:43 ◼   ► I don't know. You should, after you release this video, you should by all rights have

01:59:47 ◼   ► the most popular YouTube channel on this podcast. I mean, I think Marco does have, you have

01:59:54 ◼   ► a lot of views on your on your your MacBook thing but in theory a review of

01:59:59 ◼   ► an $80,000 sports sedan has more like general interest than yet another review

02:00:05 ◼   ► of like a laptop so I feel like you should come out as the undisputed views

02:00:09 ◼   ► champion of ATP I hope I think I hope so and I think my plan is to release it I

02:00:16 ◼   ► really do feel like I can get it to a point that I'm only lightly embarrassed

02:00:20 ◼   ► by it rather than deeply embarrassed by it. But we'll see what happens. And part of the

02:00:26 ◼   ► reason I really want to release it is because I feel like I have a story here. And that

02:00:30 ◼   ► story may not be interesting to anyone else. It's like, you know, when you when you have

02:00:34 ◼   ► like a really good slideshow of your vacation, right? To some degree, what we made you sit

02:00:38 ◼   ► through John when when Marco and I went to Germany, and then again, when we went to the

02:00:43 ◼   ► driving school, like to us, we had this like story arc, and it was fascinating and exciting.

02:00:47 ◼   ► to you it might have been a total frickin snooze. It may be the same thing here, but

02:00:51 ◼   ► I feel like I have a story arc, I feel like I have something to say, and maybe it's completely

02:00:58 ◼   ► selfish, but I've already filmed my conclusion, and I add- I knew what I wanted to say, but

02:01:04 ◼   ► I ad-libbed it, and I'm really, really happy with how it came out. And so, I feel like

02:01:10 ◼   ► if I- I've got a decent start, and I've got a good- a pretty good end that I'm pretty

02:01:15 ◼   ► happy with. So if I can just get the middle okay, then it'll be okay. And we'll see what

02:01:22 ◼   ► happens. But I am having fun. And that's the other thing. If nothing else, I'm having fun.

02:01:27 ◼   ► And I'm adding a tool to my tool belt. Will that be interesting or useful in the future?

02:01:33 ◼   ► Maybe not. Who knows? But Alpha Romeo has told me that they're going to give me another

02:01:37 ◼   ► car next year, not a Giulia, something else. We'll see if it comes to fruition in part

02:01:42 ◼   ► because baby. But in theory I'll have access to an Alfa Romeo. My dad actually just bought

02:01:49 ◼   ► an interesting car which I can tell you two about privately later. So if he really and

02:01:55 ◼   ► truly loves me then maybe he'll let me review that.

02:01:57 ◼   ► It might be easier to get your car from a manufacturer than from your dad.

02:02:01 ◼   ► I think you might be right. And you haven't even met my dad.

02:02:03 ◼   ► You know I only have one question. It is not white.

02:02:06 ◼   ► Oh, it's silver. Didn't we see a picture of it last time?

02:02:09 ◼   ► Yeah, it's silver. It's just shiny white.

02:02:12 ◼   ► That's just I know God you're the worst but but you see what I'm saying like

02:02:15 ◼   ► There is a way in which I can probably eke out a couple more videos

02:02:21 ◼   ► And if I have a handful of videos under my belt, maybe it's possible to get access to cars

02:02:27 ◼   ► I wouldn't already have access to and I've actually had a couple people reach out via Twitter

02:02:31 ◼   ► Which is extremely kind and nice of them and say hey if you want to review my you know, genuinely interesting car

02:02:36 ◼   ► I I'm happy to do it and

02:02:39 ◼   ► That works for regular car reviews. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that because god forbid I broke something like then what you know

02:02:46 ◼   ► Or if I ran into somebody then what you know, so I'm not

02:02:49 ◼   ► Entirely comfortable with that or at least not now

02:02:52 ◼   ► But it's been extremely flattering that somebody would be you know, willing to even entertain the idea

02:02:57 ◼   ► So who knows maybe this will be a one-and-done thing and and I'll be embarrassed about it in a month

02:03:03 ◼   ► Or maybe even an hour after it's posted but so far I'm learning and having fun

02:03:08 ◼   ► and I know it's very like Kumbaya and Touchy-Fele,

02:03:11 ◼   ► but that's really the most I can ask for at the moment.

02:03:14 ◼   ► - Alright, let me pose an alternative path here.

02:03:18 ◼   ► So, A, you waffled a minute ago about whether

02:03:23 ◼   ► you'd even release this video.

02:03:24 ◼   ► You definitely should release this video.

02:03:26 ◼   ► Because the way you get better at making videos

02:03:30 ◼   ► is by making videos.

02:03:32 ◼   ► It's just like everything else.

02:03:34 ◼   ► You're not gonna get good at something

02:03:37 ◼   ► if you do it twice a year when you get a press car.

02:03:40 ◼   ► Like that's not going to be enough.

02:03:42 ◼   ► You should actually consider doing reviews of other cars,

02:03:47 ◼   ► boring cars, other things that aren't cars.

02:03:51 ◼   ► Review helicopters, I don't care.

02:03:52 ◼   ► Just review, if this is a thing you want to get good

02:03:55 ◼   ► at doing, you have to construct ways to do it more often.

02:03:59 ◼   ► Because otherwise you're never going to be able to

02:04:04 ◼   ► create the kind of thing you want to create.

02:04:06 ◼   ► If you're not getting more experience per unit of time,

02:04:11 ◼   ► doing one of these a year is not gonna be enough.

02:04:13 ◼   ► So if you actually want this to be a thing

02:04:16 ◼   ► that you get good at and that you do on a regular basis,

02:04:19 ◼   ► do more of it, find ways to do more of it.

02:04:21 ◼   ► And maybe that's just reviewing boring cars sometimes.

02:04:25 ◼   ► If you make yourself a deal, review one car a month

02:04:31 ◼   ► and then try to figure out how do you even do that,

02:04:33 ◼   ► how do you get set up for that,

02:04:36 ◼   ► how much effort do you have to make this fit within

02:04:40 ◼   ► in order to be able to afford time-wise

02:04:42 ◼   ► to do it once per month?

02:04:44 ◼   ► Set that system in motion.

02:04:45 ◼   ► And whether that's, like, you could have something like,

02:04:48 ◼   ► what if you get friendly with a local used car dealer,

02:04:51 ◼   ► and whenever they have a cool used car in,

02:04:54 ◼   ► you give 'em some small amount of money

02:04:56 ◼   ► and they let you borrow it for a few days.

02:05:00 ◼   ► 'Cause then it's no sweat off their back, it's used anyway.

02:05:03 ◼   ► Borrow for a few days, maybe you promote their dealership

02:05:05 ◼   ► at the end of it or something.

02:05:07 ◼   ► There are ways to solve this problem.

02:05:10 ◼   ► And there are ways, if you want to only review cars,

02:05:13 ◼   ► and you don't want to borrow a friend's cars,

02:05:15 ◼   ► there are ways around that.

02:05:16 ◼   ► There are things that you can do here.

02:05:19 ◼   ► And if that's not enough for you,

02:05:22 ◼   ► first of all, review your car, hello.

02:05:24 ◼   ► Like, you have-- (laughs)

02:05:26 ◼   ► - Well, but my car is old now,

02:05:27 ◼   ► is that being said? - It doesn't matter.

02:05:28 ◼   ► It doesn't, you know what, there's a lot of people

02:05:30 ◼   ► who are wanting to buy used BMWs

02:05:33 ◼   ► and want to know which ones are good.

02:05:35 ◼   ► - None.

02:05:36 ◼   ► - And which ones have a lot of expensive work

02:05:39 ◼   ► that needs to be done.

02:05:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

02:05:40 ◼   ► - But like people want it, like,

02:05:42 ◼   ► you're not gonna compete with like,

02:05:44 ◼   ► you know, the pros for like getting all the

02:05:48 ◼   ► high profile views for every brand new car.

02:05:50 ◼   ► People are gonna go to the big reviewers for that.

02:05:53 ◼   ► Where you can compete is on things

02:05:55 ◼   ► that the big reviewers aren't spending time on.

02:05:57 ◼   ► So you can compete with all the crazy cars

02:06:00 ◼   ► you have access to in your everyday life,

02:06:02 ◼   ► and there's gonna be someone looking for that.

02:06:04 ◼   ► And you can use those lower profile, lower traffic,

02:06:08 ◼   ► lower pressure videos to build your skills with

02:06:12 ◼   ► so that on the off chance that you do get

02:06:14 ◼   ► some kind of awesome new press car

02:06:17 ◼   ► that is higher profile and expensive and fancy,

02:06:19 ◼   ► you will already have built the skills

02:06:22 ◼   ► so you won't have to be learning on that one.

02:06:24 ◼   ► Build the skills up in a more training wheels

02:06:28 ◼   ► kind of environment where the stakes are lower

02:06:30 ◼   ► and you can do it more often.

02:06:32 ◼   ► And then you can be ready for when something big happens.

02:06:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, I completely agree with you.

02:06:36 ◼   ► And I think just looking at my network,

02:06:39 ◼   ► for lack of a better term, that sounds so LinkedIn,

02:06:42 ◼   ► but maybe I could get some seat time

02:06:45 ◼   ► in either your car or Underscore's car.

02:06:47 ◼   ► - Yes, you know how many car people you know?

02:06:49 ◼   ► - Exactly.

02:06:50 ◼   ► - Every conversation I have with you,

02:06:51 ◼   ► you're telling me about one of your friends

02:06:52 ◼   ► who has a cool car.

02:06:53 ◼   ► Like, (laughs)

02:06:55 ◼   ► you know so many car people.

02:06:57 ◼   ► This is not a hard thing for you to do.

02:06:59 ◼   ► if you wanted to set this up,

02:07:01 ◼   ► you could very easily set this up.

02:07:03 ◼   ► Also, here's how you-- - That and Aaron's car.

02:07:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, Aaron's car, your car, your parents' cars,

02:07:08 ◼   ► all your friends' cars, you can happily drive mine

02:07:11 ◼   ► if you can get yourself here somehow.

02:07:13 ◼   ► That's, this is totally a thing that you can do.

02:07:16 ◼   ► It is not that hard.

02:07:18 ◼   ► If you want to get yourself set up with this,

02:07:21 ◼   ► you already have a pretty good network in place to do it.

02:07:25 ◼   ► It's a big time commitment,

02:07:27 ◼   ► but developing any new skill like this is going to be.

02:07:30 ◼   ► So if you want to do it, figure out a way to do it.

02:07:33 ◼   ► Set it up, make it a habit.

02:07:36 ◼   ► And that's how you'll get good at it.

02:07:38 ◼   ► I'm not saying that you're gonna make bad stuff.

02:07:41 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, I'm totally with you.

02:07:42 ◼   ► - What I'm saying is I know what you're going for

02:07:45 ◼   ► and you're not gonna be able to achieve

02:07:48 ◼   ► the level you want to achieve unless you do it regularly,

02:07:52 ◼   ► unless you make a habit of it.

02:07:53 ◼   ► Then you're gonna develop the skills to do it over time.

02:07:56 ◼   ► but you have to start doing that,

02:07:58 ◼   ► and you're not gonna do that if you only get one car a year.

02:08:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with everything you said.

02:08:03 ◼   ► And, you know, Aaron and I have talked about it a bit,

02:08:07 ◼   ► and, you know, we've talked about, you know,

02:08:08 ◼   ► is this worth spending money on, you know,

02:08:10 ◼   ► outside of Final Cut Pro, obviously?

02:08:12 ◼   ► Like, is it worth me getting, you know,

02:08:13 ◼   ► a $100 lav mic and, you know, maybe a multi-hundred dollar,

02:08:17 ◼   ► like, XLR portable recorder?

02:08:19 ◼   ► And the answer is we don't know, but--

02:08:21 ◼   ► - Okay, stop right there.

02:08:22 ◼   ► This stuff is really cheap.

02:08:23 ◼   ► You don't need to spend that much money.

02:08:25 ◼   ► What you need is an iPhone, maybe a gimbal for it,

02:08:29 ◼   ► and some kind of small mic that you can clip to your shirt

02:08:34 ◼   ► and record, but those are surprise,

02:08:36 ◼   ► if you don't want something fancy and wireless

02:08:38 ◼   ► that goes up to SLRs, you can go really cheap and it works.

02:08:41 ◼   ► - Oh, there you go.

02:08:42 ◼   ► But my point is to say like,

02:08:43 ◼   ► what both time and financial commitment is worth,

02:08:48 ◼   ► is this worth?

02:08:49 ◼   ► And on the surface, the conservative answer

02:08:52 ◼   ► is not a single cent and not a single minute,

02:08:55 ◼   ► But it's not quite that simple, right?

02:08:56 ◼   ► Because what if, and I was talking to Erin about this,

02:08:59 ◼   ► and this is probably going to be embarrassing to say

02:09:03 ◼   ► at some point in my life, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

02:09:06 ◼   ► Suddenly this became analog.

02:09:07 ◼   ► What if this becomes another livelihood for me and my family?

02:09:13 ◼   ► And what if doing the podcast and doing these videos

02:09:20 ◼   ► is enough to fund our existence?

02:09:22 ◼   ► And what if then I didn't have to go to a jobby job every day?

02:09:27 ◼   ► And what if I could then spend more time with my family?

02:09:30 ◼   ► You know, like, it's a moonshot.

02:09:31 ◼   ► I don't think that'll ever, ever, ever, ever happen.

02:09:34 ◼   ► But why wouldn't I just give it a whirl and see what happens?

02:09:38 ◼   ► You know, because, and I'm basically repeating, I'm parroting what you said, Marco, back to

02:09:43 ◼   ► you.

02:09:44 ◼   ► But that's kind of the way I'm looking at it right now is, who knows?

02:09:46 ◼   ► What if I have a bit of a knack for this?

02:09:48 ◼   ► I feel like there's something here and it's not going to be mature and it's gonna have problems

02:09:54 ◼   ► but why not to use a underscore ism why not unpack this a little bit and

02:09:59 ◼   ► See what I come up with because maybe maybe I've got this

02:10:03 ◼   ► I mean if you really want to go for the moonshot of the moonshot

02:10:06 ◼   ► What if I end up on Top Gear America in ten years like again that I?

02:10:10 ◼   ► Understand how preposterous and comical that is but who knows like why should I say I can't do that?

02:10:16 ◼   ► You never know.

02:10:17 ◼   ► Weirder things have happened.

02:10:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, look, and worst case scenario,

02:10:24 ◼   ► you have a really cool, fulfilling hobby

02:10:26 ◼   ► that you really enjoy.

02:10:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

02:10:27 ◼   ► - That's the worst case scenario.

02:10:29 ◼   ► You get to film cars and talk about them.

02:10:31 ◼   ► You do that anyway.

02:10:32 ◼   ► I can't think of a better hobby for you to have.

02:10:36 ◼   ► If you happen to be able to turn this hobby

02:10:38 ◼   ► into a business, cool, that's bonus.

02:10:40 ◼   ► But either way, it's good.

02:10:42 ◼   ► Like, either way, it's gonna make you happy to do it.

02:10:44 ◼   ► And look, everybody has hobbies.

02:10:45 ◼   ► John plays Destiny, you can shoot car videos.

02:10:49 ◼   ► - Right?

02:10:49 ◼   ► I don't know, John, take me back to Earth, am I crazy?

02:10:53 ◼   ► - I was just gonna say, it's making me feel old

02:10:56 ◼   ► to hear people whose spirits haven't been crushed

02:10:58 ◼   ► by life yet.

02:10:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

02:11:01 ◼   ► - That's the most John answer ever.

02:11:03 ◼   ► - With optimism, yeah, I do play Destiny,

02:11:06 ◼   ► and I make videos of me playing Destiny,

02:11:08 ◼   ► and it's a fulfilling hobby.

02:11:10 ◼   ► - Wait, do you have like a channel where you put those?

02:11:12 ◼   ► - Yeah.

02:11:13 ◼   ► - Where, on the internet?

02:11:15 ◼   ► I'll have you know I have dozens of views on my videos.

02:11:18 ◼   ► Dozens.

02:11:19 ◼   ► Dozens of us.

02:11:20 ◼   ► Do you really like put these online somewhere?

02:11:24 ◼   ► I have a YouTube channel.

02:11:25 ◼   ► It's been mentioned on this show before.

02:11:26 ◼   ► You were here.

02:11:27 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

02:11:28 ◼   ► Even I knew that and I have no memory.

02:11:29 ◼   ► There it is.

02:11:30 ◼   ► Use a Syracuse.

02:11:31 ◼   ► There you go.

02:11:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that's you or somebody who's posing as you and also plays Destiny.

02:11:36 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

02:11:37 ◼   ► Whoa.

02:11:38 ◼   ► And plays Destiny just the way I play it.

02:11:40 ◼   ► Let me tell you, the videos are action-packed.

02:11:42 ◼   ► 113 views.

02:11:44 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

02:11:45 ◼   ► Wow.

02:11:46 ◼   ► Oh, you have a lot here.

02:11:47 ◼   ► I've been doing it for a while, since Destiny 1.

02:11:50 ◼   ► You know, you're going to have to edit out all the times I mentioned Grey, because I

02:11:53 ◼   ► think there are times that he actually does listen to this show, and I don't know what

02:11:57 ◼   ► I said about him.

02:11:58 ◼   ► It was all intended to be--

02:11:59 ◼   ► He can handle it.

02:12:00 ◼   ► He can handle it.

02:12:01 ◼   ► He's a big boy.

02:12:02 ◼   ► It was all intended to be complimentary, but--

02:12:04 ◼   ► If he's smart, he'll pounce on me for using the phrase "lose the plot" and say, "Haha,

02:12:08 ◼   ► now you're using Britishisms."

02:12:10 ◼   ► Actually, that's true.

02:12:11 ◼   ► He'll jump on it straight away.

02:12:12 ◼   ► That's right.

02:12:13 ◼   ► - His first videos were crap too.

02:12:15 ◼   ► He just didn't publish them, or maybe he did.

02:12:17 ◼   ► I think, who mentioned on an old HI episode

02:12:20 ◼   ► that you have to keep your first really crappy video

02:12:22 ◼   ► in your channel and you can't delete it.

02:12:24 ◼   ► - No, and that's the thing.

02:12:26 ◼   ► You're comparing yourself to somebody

02:12:27 ◼   ► who's been doing this for years.

02:12:28 ◼   ► - Oh, totally. - And so everyone

02:12:29 ◼   ► starts out crappy, and if you only make one video a year,

02:12:33 ◼   ► you're gonna be crappy for a long time.

02:12:35 ◼   ► If you do it, if you make this a new thing

02:12:37 ◼   ► that you do on a regular basis,

02:12:38 ◼   ► you have a much better chance of getting better over time.

02:12:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

02:12:42 ◼   ► And again, this is me telling myself

02:12:45 ◼   ► this is much anything else, don't focus on the gear.

02:12:48 ◼   ► The gear is not your problem.

02:12:50 ◼   ► You can do everything you need with an iPhone.

02:12:53 ◼   ► That's it, that's all you need.

02:12:54 ◼   ► Everything else is bonus.

02:12:56 ◼   ► Like, it'd be nice to have a little bit better audio input.

02:13:00 ◼   ► It's a little closer to your mouth

02:13:01 ◼   ► if you're gonna be on camera.

02:13:02 ◼   ► Otherwise, you don't really need that much.

02:13:05 ◼   ► You don't think about the hundreds of dollars

02:13:08 ◼   ► audio interface and stuff, you don't need it.

02:13:10 ◼   ► Also, you already own one.

02:13:11 ◼   ► but you don't need it.

02:13:13 ◼   ► Like you only, the content of the video,

02:13:18 ◼   ► the video footage itself, the writing of the video,

02:13:23 ◼   ► the timing and the editing and the cutting

02:13:26 ◼   ► and what you're saying is way more important

02:13:29 ◼   ► than the equipment you have.

02:13:30 ◼   ► And the fact is, the iPhone that you already will have anyway

02:13:35 ◼   ► is the best video camera in the world

02:13:37 ◼   ► for this type of thing most of the time.

02:13:40 ◼   ► Not all the time, you can have specialized things

02:13:42 ◼   ► and pros and everything, but if you wanna just make a video

02:13:46 ◼   ► as a newcomer to the field, just use your iPhone.

02:13:48 ◼   ► It has everything you need built in.

02:13:50 ◼   ► You already own it, spend zero dollars,

02:13:52 ◼   ► just use the iPhone.

02:13:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so the stuff I did, I did with a GoPro,

02:13:56 ◼   ► an old GoPro that I borrowed from work, and my iPhone.

02:14:00 ◼   ► And there are a couple of things,

02:14:01 ◼   ► like I'll do voiceovers with a good mic,

02:14:03 ◼   ► which is going to be jarring because it's gonna be

02:14:05 ◼   ► so much better than the stuff I filmed live, but whatever.

02:14:10 ◼   ► But, and I recorded the exhaust note a couple of times

02:14:12 ◼   ► with my good mic, just to get a really good, you know,

02:14:15 ◼   ► like the beginning of this preview is actually the exhaust,

02:14:19 ◼   ► as recorded with the mic I'm speaking to you with now,

02:14:21 ◼   ► which I'm sure is wrong in some way or another,

02:14:23 ◼   ► because it's probably not the right mic for it,

02:14:24 ◼   ► but whatever.

02:14:26 ◼   ► - No, it's not wrong, just your mic is not filled

02:14:27 ◼   ► with exhaust.

02:14:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, whatever, smells good, right?

02:14:32 ◼   ► But you see, it was like a GoPro and an iPhone,

02:14:35 ◼   ► and my podcasting mic, to your point,

02:14:38 ◼   ► I am 98% of the way there.

02:14:40 ◼   ► The only problem I haven't really solved for

02:14:43 ◼   ► is when the iPhone is several feet away from my body

02:14:47 ◼   ► and I'm doing a live discussion.

02:14:50 ◼   ► And by that I mean I'm recording both video and audio

02:14:53 ◼   ► and I'm going to keep both the video and the audio.

02:14:55 ◼   ► That's the thing I haven't solved for.

02:14:57 ◼   ► And that's what's gonna sound like garbage in this video

02:14:59 ◼   ► unless I overdub or whatever the term is that actors do.

02:15:02 ◼   ► If I dub over myself and try to record--

02:15:05 ◼   ► - AVR. (laughs)

02:15:06 ◼   ► - Whatever it is, yeah.

02:15:07 ◼   ► So I try to match my exact delivery that I did at the time, but I do it with my podcast

02:15:14 ◼   ► mic and I don't think I'm capable of it.

02:15:16 ◼   ► I'll probably give it a shot just to see if it gets even close, but I don't think

02:15:19 ◼   ► I'm able to.

02:15:20 ◼   ► It won't work.

02:15:21 ◼   ► That's incredibly hard.

02:15:22 ◼   ► I think you have to be a very experienced actor probably to be able to have any chance

02:15:26 ◼   ► of doing that well.

02:15:27 ◼   ► Oh, I'm sure you're right.

02:15:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

02:15:29 ◼   ► You should get Declan to dub over you because that would make a good video.

02:15:34 ◼   ► - I'm assuming you're overdubbing Quadrifoglio

02:15:37 ◼   ► with a Vitici thing.

02:15:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, every time.

02:15:39 ◼   ► - I haven't done it yet.

02:15:41 ◼   ► I haven't done it yet, but I plan to do it

02:15:42 ◼   ► at least the first time.

02:15:43 ◼   ► - It's like slow down the video slightly,

02:15:45 ◼   ► like match it up so you'll look all weird.

02:15:47 ◼   ► No, I mean, it's like the secret to good audio

02:15:50 ◼   ► for this purpose, like you can get into

02:15:52 ◼   ► integrated details, but basically none of them matter

02:15:55 ◼   ► as much as get a mic close to your mouth.

02:15:59 ◼   ► And it matters way less what that mic is,

02:16:02 ◼   ► how good it is, like just get something

02:16:03 ◼   ► that can be close to your mouth,

02:16:05 ◼   ► 'cause even a really good mic,

02:16:07 ◼   ► even if you get a really nice fancy shotgun mic

02:16:09 ◼   ► that's made for this purpose,

02:16:11 ◼   ► it does not sound nearly as good

02:16:13 ◼   ► as a cheap lavalier next to your face.

02:16:15 ◼   ► - Well, and the stop gap that I used,

02:16:18 ◼   ► which you're going to yell at me for, and you're right,

02:16:20 ◼   ► is I used actually one of my AirPods.

02:16:22 ◼   ► So I have one AirPod in my ear,

02:16:24 ◼   ► and that was what the audio was for.

02:16:25 ◼   ► And it sounds like a telephone call, which is okay,

02:16:30 ◼   ► but it's a lot better than me,

02:16:31 ◼   ► because the phone was probably 10 feet away

02:16:34 ◼   ► for a lot of the stuff that I filmed.

02:16:35 ◼   ► And so, left with just the phone mic,

02:16:38 ◼   ► it would have been nothing but wind

02:16:40 ◼   ► and a dim, faint version of me.

02:16:43 ◼   ► And so, it was the best I could do

02:16:44 ◼   ► without spending any money.

02:16:46 ◼   ► But I can tell you right now that if this gets posted,

02:16:50 ◼   ► which I intend to post it,

02:16:52 ◼   ► I guarantee that I'm gonna get a bunch of complaints

02:16:54 ◼   ► about the audio.

02:16:54 ◼   ► And they're gonna be fair,

02:16:55 ◼   ► because the audio is gonna sound like garbage

02:16:57 ◼   ► for the stuff that I filmed, quote, unquote, in person.

02:16:59 ◼   ► - But it doesn't matter.

02:17:01 ◼   ► - I know, and that's why I'm just rolling with it.

02:17:02 ◼   ► - Just focus on it for next time.

02:17:03 ◼   ► And one thing you can do that's probably

02:17:05 ◼   ► your cheapest option really,

02:17:06 ◼   ► without having to buy much of anything,

02:17:08 ◼   ► you're gonna have to buy probably a wired lavalier mic.

02:17:12 ◼   ► That's fine, they're really cheap.

02:17:14 ◼   ► They're like under 50 bucks for a even halfway decent

02:17:18 ◼   ► wired lavalier.

02:17:20 ◼   ► And what I suggest you do is plug it into something

02:17:22 ◼   ► that can record the audio separately from the video,

02:17:24 ◼   ► that way you don't have to worry about that,

02:17:25 ◼   ► and then you can sync it up in Final Cut.

02:17:28 ◼   ► You can sync up the audio, I think automatically,

02:17:30 ◼   ► with the video, or somehow it syncs up.

02:17:32 ◼   ► There's a way to do that.

02:17:34 ◼   ► And the good thing, and you're doing such short clips

02:17:36 ◼   ► that drift is not gonna be a noticeable problem

02:17:38 ◼   ► in the time duration that you're doing.

02:17:41 ◼   ► The other thing I would say is one thing to consider

02:17:43 ◼   ► for what is recording that thing, it can be an old iPhone.

02:17:48 ◼   ► A second one, if you don't have a long enough--

02:17:51 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting point, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:17:53 ◼   ► - If you don't have a long enough eighth inch cable

02:17:55 ◼   ► to a lightning adapter, to a dongle

02:17:57 ◼   ► to fit into the new iPhone, just use an iPhone 5

02:18:00 ◼   ► and run voice memos as you plug in a wired lavalier

02:18:04 ◼   ► to its headphone jack that's compatible with it.

02:18:06 ◼   ► Like that's a thing you can do too,

02:18:08 ◼   ► because all iPhones can be audio recorders.

02:18:11 ◼   ► So like that's gonna be better than what you have now.

02:18:14 ◼   ► Like it's gonna be easier.

02:18:16 ◼   ► The other thing, or you know,

02:18:16 ◼   ► you can get something like a Zoom H1,

02:18:19 ◼   ► which is like this little tiny thing you could like,

02:18:21 ◼   ► I mean it's not invisible,

02:18:24 ◼   ► but you could like put it in a shirt pocket at least,

02:18:27 ◼   ► or somewhere near your mouth

02:18:28 ◼   ► that is nearer than an iPhone,

02:18:30 ◼   ► and it's kind of like a standalone recorder.

02:18:33 ◼   ► You can also run a wired lavalier into an H1's line-in jack.

02:18:37 ◼   ► That's a thing a lot of people do.

02:18:39 ◼   ► So there's lots of options here that range from free,

02:18:43 ◼   ► because you already have the stuff,

02:18:45 ◼   ► to under 100 bucks.

02:18:48 ◼   ► And you can go crazy, you can go way higher than that,

02:18:50 ◼   ► but you don't need to.

02:18:51 ◼   ► Like, don't even, I would even say just don't.

02:18:54 ◼   ► Don't mess with that, because it's so much more important

02:18:57 ◼   ► to get the other basics right.

02:19:00 ◼   ► This is where I went totally wrong with mine.

02:19:02 ◼   ► Like, I got the fancy camera and the fancy tripod

02:19:05 ◼   ► and I even bought like an iPad teleprompting mount.

02:19:08 ◼   ► - I thought about doing that, yeah, yeah.

02:19:10 ◼   ► - So I could use Joe Cieplinski's Teleprompt Plus

02:19:13 ◼   ► in there, like I got all this crazy stuff

02:19:17 ◼   ► so I could like have teleprompters

02:19:18 ◼   ► so I could be looking at the camera

02:19:19 ◼   ► while I'm reading my text instead of looking off screen

02:19:21 ◼   ► at my laptop with the notes on it and everything.

02:19:22 ◼   ► Like, I got this crazy setup

02:19:24 ◼   ► and I ended up using most of it zero times

02:19:27 ◼   ► or one time to make a mediocre video

02:19:29 ◼   ► and I didn't make a video after that.

02:19:31 ◼   ► If I make videos again, I'm going to instead

02:19:34 ◼   ► just use my iPhone in the gimbal

02:19:37 ◼   ► that I also bought for some reason.

02:19:39 ◼   ► I'm just gonna use it in that and shoot myself

02:19:42 ◼   ► and maybe I'll have a lavalier mic

02:19:45 ◼   ► to give myself better audio but that's as far as I would go

02:19:48 ◼   ► probably in that department just because

02:19:51 ◼   ► if I'm going to make videos again,

02:19:53 ◼   ► what I need is to make the process lower friction

02:19:56 ◼   ► so I do it more.

02:19:58 ◼   ► And the only way I'm gonna do that

02:19:59 ◼   ► is by making it basically all iPhone

02:20:01 ◼   ► and making it informal.

02:20:03 ◼   ► Basically making it like Periscope or Instagram Live.

02:20:06 ◼   ► 'Cause I had no problem doing those

02:20:09 ◼   ► 'cause they were informal and all iPhone-based.

02:20:11 ◼   ► So I just need to do that, right?

02:20:13 ◼   ► And so you need to find out what that is for you.

02:20:15 ◼   ► Find out how to make yourself do more videos

02:20:19 ◼   ► so that you can get better at making videos

02:20:20 ◼   ► so that when you get an opportunity like this,

02:20:22 ◼   ► you can do the kind that you actually wanna do.

02:20:24 ◼   ► The only equipment I'm currently planning to buy, if any, is a lavalier mic of some

02:20:30 ◼   ► sort and maybe a gimbal. And that's it. That's all I feel like I really need at this point,

02:20:34 ◼   ► because I can borrow a GoPro from work or there's a possibility that a listener might have an

02:20:40 ◼   ► actually similar generation one that they're not using anymore. So he had offered to send it to me.

02:20:47 ◼   ► So I have a GoPro, I'll have my phone, maybe like some sort of mount that I can mount between

02:20:55 ◼   ► the headrests, like if I get really serious, something that I can mount the GoPro to between

02:21:00 ◼   ► the headrests, because basically the only mount I have right now is the suction cup

02:21:03 ◼   ► mount, which is great for taking video of me, but less great for taking video of what's

02:21:08 ◼   ► going out the front of the car.

02:21:11 ◼   ► But anyway, the point is, I agree with you that there's very little I intend to spend

02:21:17 ◼   ► money on unless I have a compelling reason to which is to say things are going well.

02:21:22 ◼   ► And if things are going well, then great, why not throw money at it?

02:21:26 ◼   ► But if things are as I expect, which is to say it was a fun blip on the radar for me

02:21:31 ◼   ► and the people that care about me, then whatever.

02:21:33 ◼   ► [BEEPING]

02:21:36 ◼   ► [ Silence ]