ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► In the show notes someone has deleted a very important note that note read as follows

00:00:05 ◼   ► But John this looks an awful fucking lot like homework

00:00:08 ◼   ► Because I'm assuming it wasn't Marco that put in all sorts of information about photos for OS X. It's not homework

00:00:15 ◼   ► It's like it looks an awful lot like homework the bare minimum of getting anything written down about a topic

00:00:22 ◼   ► And it's like oh my goodness if I didn't write this down there would be nothing there

00:00:25 ◼   ► just to be like a bullet point that said photos.

00:00:27 ◼   ► I'm just saying, I don't like the look of homework.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Yeah, no Casey, this is not homework.

00:00:31 ◼   ► This is simply research that was done in John's home

00:00:34 ◼   ► that was in preparation for some future work.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Big research, I went to web pages

00:00:39 ◼   ► and copy and pasted some stuff.

00:00:41 ◼   ► It's no more research than getting the feedback emails

00:00:44 ◼   ► we get and copying and pasting information

00:00:46 ◼   ► from them into here.

00:00:46 ◼   ► And then you complain like,

00:00:47 ◼   ► "You didn't give me a link to that tweet."

00:00:49 ◼   ► So apparently it's okay for me to do homework then

00:00:51 ◼   ► when you can't find a link to a tweet on your own,

00:00:53 ◼   ► But now I can't anyway, but it'll be fine. Oh

00:00:56 ◼   ► Goodness, all right. Well now that I've publicly shamed you and then inevitably shamed myself

00:01:03 ◼   ► We should probably do some follow-ups. So let's start with

00:01:06 ◼   ► Pitti Pong. I hope I said that right I went back and forth like five emails trying to get this name right Pitti Pong

00:01:14 ◼   ► he wrote us about the

00:01:18 ◼   ► Thailand crisis that caused the the hard drive problems because of how many hard drives are manufactured there and in the past show I

00:01:25 ◼   ► Had attributed it to a tsunami with a bunch of waffle words around it like tsunami or something anyway

00:01:31 ◼   ► It was not a tsunami. It was a severe flood in 2011 that caused this problem with hard drives

00:01:36 ◼   ► the tsunami was in 2004 in a different part of Thailand and

00:01:40 ◼   ► Apparently the Seagate hard drive factories were not in the flooding area. So why would their quality?

00:01:47 ◼   ► Go down. This is in relation to the back blaze blog post. We talked about last show

00:01:51 ◼   ► About how they bought a bunch of C gate hard drives around the time of the flood and like 90% of them were dead in four

00:01:57 ◼   ► years

00:01:58 ◼   ► Maybe more pressure on the one remaining working factory maybe parts. They got were bad like all sorts of I can imagine

00:02:05 ◼   ► This email said that it's you know, we can say that see if factories were almost

00:02:10 ◼   ► Almost were not affected by the severe flooding maybe not like directly as in they were had water in them

00:02:16 ◼   ► but clearly something related to the flood went wrong to cause that batch of drives to

00:02:21 ◼   ► be terrible.

00:02:22 ◼   ► Like they bought thousands of drives and 90% dead in four years is not a good deal.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So anyway, we got the natural disaster wrong and apparently their factory wasn't underwater

00:02:30 ◼   ► but they were clearly affected.

00:02:31 ◼   ► They also might have just sucked.

00:02:33 ◼   ► Well, I suppose, but like you saw those numbers.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Like those are outside the margin of error.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Especially for Backblaze for them to call it out.

00:02:41 ◼   ► They bought tons of different hard drives from different manufacturers and there's some

00:02:44 ◼   ► Some fluctuations, but that was ridiculous.

00:02:47 ◼   ► - Sort of related, well, quasi-related note,

00:02:49 ◼   ► do you guys have spare drives for your Synologies

00:02:52 ◼   ► just in case one dies?

00:02:54 ◼   ► - I don't.

00:02:55 ◼   ► - I did that for a while, but now, instead of doing that,

00:02:59 ◼   ► now I just converted it to one of the raid modes

00:03:01 ◼   ► that keeps hot spares anyway.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I used to have spares sitting outside of it.

00:03:06 ◼   ► And I recognize now this is less good than that,

00:03:09 ◼   ► but it's not gonna make that big of a difference.

00:03:12 ◼   ► - So are you using the Synology Hybrid RAID

00:03:15 ◼   ► or whatever it's called, the SHR I think it is?

00:03:17 ◼   ► - I have used that in the past.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It's a little slow for me.

00:03:19 ◼   ► So now I have, well now I have my whole crazy iSCSI setup,

00:03:23 ◼   ► which I never actually talked about fully on this show.

00:03:25 ◼   ► But now my entire Synology is one giant iSCSI volume

00:03:30 ◼   ► with whatever RAID variant of RAID, five or six,

00:03:34 ◼   ► that has two disks that are able to fail.

00:03:37 ◼   ► So I have that plus one hot spare.

00:03:39 ◼   ► ready to be swapped into that if needed.

00:03:42 ◼   ► And then I have just all one giant iSCSI volume

00:03:45 ◼   ► that's accessed by network shares on this Mac Mini

00:03:48 ◼   ► that I have that's doing the live stream right now.

00:03:50 ◼   ► And so that way the Mac Mini serves the role

00:03:53 ◼   ► of being my standalone live streaming box

00:03:55 ◼   ► so I don't have to worry about software updates breaking it,

00:03:57 ◼   ► which is always a problem with audio stuff.

00:04:00 ◼   ► Meanwhile, it also runs back blaze on it

00:04:04 ◼   ► to back up the entire contents of that iSCSI volume

00:04:07 ◼   ► as a network share, and also serves it over the network

00:04:11 ◼   ► to other computers on my network.

00:04:14 ◼   ► - Interesting.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - So it's complicated.

00:04:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, for my Synology, I have two physical volumes

00:04:19 ◼   ► that are my time machine backups

00:04:21 ◼   ► and whatever RAID is completely not redundant

00:04:24 ◼   ► because it's just time machine and I don't really care.

00:04:26 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I have that too, sorry, I forgot.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I do have two disks in there that are in RAID 0

00:04:30 ◼   ► that are just for time machine.

00:04:31 ◼   ► - Right, and then I have the other six

00:04:33 ◼   ► that are using Synology, whatever it is, RAID.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I keep wanting to say hybrid, but I feel like that's wrong.

00:04:38 ◼   ► - That's what it is, SHR.

00:04:39 ◼   ► - Oh, it is, okay.

00:04:40 ◼   ► And so I've been thinking about one of these days

00:04:42 ◼   ► when I have a little bit of extra money for Amazon,

00:04:46 ◼   ► I should just get another like three terabyte drive

00:04:49 ◼   ► and just have it sitting there waiting

00:04:51 ◼   ► in case something goes wrong.

00:04:54 ◼   ► But then the other side of me thinks,

00:04:55 ◼   ► well, I could overnight myself one

00:04:58 ◼   ► if I really got desperate and one failed,

00:04:59 ◼   ► so what's the big deal?

00:05:01 ◼   ► I don't know, I was just curious

00:05:01 ◼   ► if you guys had any spares.

00:05:02 ◼   ► What's your approach on this, Jon?

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I use mine in a weird way. I do have a separate time machine volume, like both

00:05:08 ◼   ► of you, because basically I think you can only have one time machine volume. I have

00:05:12 ◼   ► it actually set up as RAID 1, because it's the one part of the system that I wanted a

00:05:17 ◼   ► little bit of redundancy on, and I didn't really care too much about speed, so it's

00:05:20 ◼   ► not RAID 0, so it's a RAID 1, a two-disc RAID 1 volume for time machine. And I back up both

00:05:26 ◼   ► of my computers over the network to that time machine thing. By the way, someone asked on

00:05:30 ◼   ► Twitter, like, they showed me their backup setup, and they said, "Do you think this is

00:05:34 ◼   ► sufficient I gave them a thumbs up or something. One thing I realized now that they were missing

00:05:38 ◼   ► is, I think when they added this maybe Mountain Lion or maybe it was even Yosemite, they added

00:05:42 ◼   ► the ability to add multiple targets for Time Machine so you could add a disk to your Time

00:05:46 ◼   ► Machine thing and it will back up also to that disk so it won't like back up half to one and

00:05:52 ◼   ► half to the other. It will do a full backup to one target and a full backup to the other target and

00:05:55 ◼   ► basically alternate and I do that. One of my Time Machine backups is to a local disk that's sitting

00:05:59 ◼   ► on the desk with my with the two respective computers and another time machine backup is

00:06:04 ◼   ► over the network to the Synology on their raid one volume and they both fit on there.

00:06:09 ◼   ► And then the rest of the disks I don't do anything with a raid I had it ranged differently in the

00:06:15 ◼   ► beginning but now I don't do anything with raid because basically you know raid is not a backup

00:06:19 ◼   ► strategy raid is mostly there to make sure your downtime is as small as possible but I don't care

00:06:24 ◼   ► if my downtime is a couple days or even a week or whatever there's nothing essential on there

00:06:28 ◼   ► It's just, you know, media and stuff like that mostly.

00:06:31 ◼   ► So I have a bunch of different volumes

00:06:34 ◼   ► that are complete copies of each other.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Like I have my media volume,

00:06:38 ◼   ► my media fits in under three terabytes.

00:06:40 ◼   ► So I think I have like three or four copies of my media.

00:06:42 ◼   ► One of them is synced with like the built-in Synology thing

00:06:46 ◼   ► to the other one.

00:06:47 ◼   ► One of them I copy with Carbon Copy Cloner

00:06:49 ◼   ► on my Mac to the other volume at different intervals.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And it's very strange,

00:06:54 ◼   ► but basically what I wanted to have is like, look,

00:06:56 ◼   ► if one of these things goes bad,

00:06:58 ◼   ► I can just yank it out, order a new hard drive from Amazon.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Doesn't really matter what size it is

00:07:03 ◼   ► because they weren't in a raid set or anything.

00:07:04 ◼   ► It's just like a new hard drive, right?

00:07:06 ◼   ► And while I do that,

00:07:07 ◼   ► I still have two more copies of all my data.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Like basically I'm taking advantage of the fact

00:07:10 ◼   ► that this Synology holds a tremendous amount of data

00:07:13 ◼   ► and I don't have that much data.

00:07:15 ◼   ► So I'm using it as a series of volumes.

00:07:17 ◼   ► And so far the drives have been fine.

00:07:21 ◼   ► I'm not really worried about them failing.

00:07:22 ◼   ► You do get, you guys get that monthly disc health report.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Synology will email you and say,

00:07:28 ◼   ► here's the health report for your disks.

00:07:29 ◼   ► It will tell you how many bad sectors

00:07:31 ◼   ► and how many errors or whatever.

00:07:33 ◼   ► All zeros every month on these things.

00:07:35 ◼   ► So I'm not particularly worried about them.

00:07:37 ◼   ► Lots of redundant data on there.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Like basically I have the same set of data copied

00:07:41 ◼   ► multiple times on multiple plain old single disk volumes.

00:07:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's really not bad.

00:07:47 ◼   ► - It's not the answer I expected, but I can get behind that.

00:07:50 ◼   ► - And I have spare empty disks still.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Like, so if I need to put something else in,

00:07:53 ◼   ► Like it seemed like a strange setup to me

00:07:56 ◼   ► and I tried different arrangements,

00:07:57 ◼   ► but in the end it's like,

00:07:58 ◼   ► look, I don't care about downtime,

00:07:59 ◼   ► I just care about the data being safe.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And I know now if I download something or rip something

00:08:05 ◼   ► and put it in my media drive,

00:08:06 ◼   ► it will slowly migrate to the other copies

00:08:09 ◼   ► of the media drive over time.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And I'll have three copies of it.

00:08:13 ◼   ► - And do neither of you guys have online backup

00:08:16 ◼   ► for your Synology stuff?

00:08:17 ◼   ► - I do, I mount it on my wife's computer

00:08:20 ◼   ► and then I use CrashPlan,

00:08:21 ◼   ► which can back up network drives?

00:08:23 ◼   ► - Yep, ditto.

00:08:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the one thing I wish Backblaze did.

00:08:26 ◼   ► And they've said a number of times that, you know,

00:08:29 ◼   ► just kind of a cost issue because NAS drives can be huge,

00:08:33 ◼   ► but I really hope, they've always said

00:08:35 ◼   ► that they are thinking about it in the future.

00:08:37 ◼   ► I really hope they do network drives

00:08:39 ◼   ► because that's the one downside of it.

00:08:42 ◼   ► And I like it so much without that

00:08:45 ◼   ► that I'd go through this crazy setup

00:08:47 ◼   ► with mounting iSCSI on a Mac mini

00:08:50 ◼   ► to have it be posted on a Mac officially and have it be backed up that way, but I've tried

00:08:55 ◼   ► crash plan running on the Synology because they have an actual client that runs on there.

00:08:59 ◼   ► I've tried crash plan running on the on a Mac that's backing it up over the network

00:09:04 ◼   ► and whatever the whatever the reason is, it doesn't work for me and and there's some kind

00:09:10 ◼   ► of issue that the crash plan client is still written in Java and there's some kind of issue

00:09:15 ◼   ► you where you start hitting weird memory limits. If you

00:09:18 ◼   ► have a large number of files, regardless of the file size, I

00:09:22 ◼   ► think I think it's just if you have a very large number of

00:09:24 ◼   ► files, the the crash plan client can start crapping out

00:09:28 ◼   ► doing weird things and erroring out or being just

00:09:30 ◼   ► ridiculously slow to upload them or to track them and I I

00:09:34 ◼   ► hit those problems every time I've tried crash plan,

00:09:37 ◼   ► whether it was on on the Synology itself or on a Mac

00:09:39 ◼   ► and I've tried. There are so many like alternative

00:09:42 ◼   ► configuration files. I even blogged about one when I found

00:09:44 ◼   ► that I thought worked and it worked for like a week and then stopped working.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I've had nothing but trouble trying to back up a very large number of files to

00:09:52 ◼   ► CrashPlan. That was one of my strategies for the Synology 2 is big files so it's

00:09:57 ◼   ► like movie rips and like you know even the time machine thing it's disk images

00:10:02 ◼   ► it's not all the little individual time machine files because when you do time

00:10:05 ◼   ► machine over a network it makes huge disk images it is just really big files

00:10:08 ◼   ► so it's not a million files it is a small number of multi gigabyte files and

00:10:13 ◼   ► I think that's why I'm able to get away with CrashPlan backing it up.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I dig it.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Moving on, we should talk about the new MacBook battery, the life it has under load.

00:10:25 ◼   ► I'm not sure if this was John or Marco that added this.

00:10:28 ◼   ► We were wondering a couple shows back,

00:10:30 ◼   ► this new MacBook, it's really skinny. It's got a very tiny little battery in there. It's got a very low power CPU and

00:10:40 ◼   ► The battery life we weren't sure about because it hadn't shipped yet and like well, maybe it gets the battery life

00:10:44 ◼   ► They say if you use it lightly

00:10:45 ◼   ► But what is it like if you use it heavily if you really stress this thing by you know?

00:10:50 ◼   ► Just using Xcode constantly or using Photoshop or Final Cut or something like if you really really use this

00:10:55 ◼   ► Does the does the battery life?

00:10:57 ◼   ► Drop dramatically because like the CPU is like oh, I'm gonna be very conservative and sip power

00:11:02 ◼   ► But it's like, you know, the ratings are like 1.1 gigahertz or 1.3, but it turbos up to like 2.9

00:11:08 ◼   ► It's like what if you leave it in turbo mode all the time? Is it just gonna destroy your battery?

00:11:11 ◼   ► and

00:11:13 ◼   ► Marco was musing that rather than just seeing battery life tests of like maybe a heavy and light load. He would like to see

00:11:19 ◼   ► Delta's like

00:11:22 ◼   ► How much worse is the battery life on this laptop in?

00:11:25 ◼   ► heavy usage versus light usage and he was guessing that maybe the new MacBook would not be that great in that area because maybe gets

00:11:32 ◼   ► All its power savings from being really careful, but if you really stress it, it just becomes more like a regular CPU

00:11:37 ◼   ► So true to form and tech did that test with a bunch of laptops and as it turns out the new

00:11:44 ◼   ► MacBook one one port to 12 inch retina, whatever you want to call it thing

00:11:48 ◼   ► Has the best performance of any of the Apple laptops they tested when comparing its high load versus as low load it retains

00:11:56 ◼   ► 62.2% of its battery life and the next best one is 59 and it goes down with the 11 inch

00:12:04 ◼   ► 2011 MacBook Air being the worst where it gets like 38 percent 38.3 percent of its uh

00:12:09 ◼   ► Low load battery life, so we'll put a link to this in the show notes. It's a pleasant surprise that the newest notebook not only

00:12:16 ◼   ► Has the lowest power CPU and the tiniest battery, but also takes the smallest hit when you use it at load now marco's blog post

00:12:24 ◼   ► I think was about how all these are not great that all of them right this great battery life if you just surf the web

00:12:31 ◼   ► but if you use any of them hard, forget about all day,

00:12:33 ◼   ► you're down into the four or five hour range.

00:12:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was the most depressing part for me

00:12:37 ◼   ► because Apple loves to use this phrase

00:12:39 ◼   ► all day battery life now, and of course,

00:12:41 ◼   ► what is considered all day varies by what device

00:12:46 ◼   ► they're talking about and also by how you're using it.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And so all day battery life on the watch is,

00:12:52 ◼   ► from all the reviews you've heard so far,

00:12:54 ◼   ► sufficient to actually last through the day for most people,

00:12:58 ◼   ► unless you're really using it a lot

00:13:00 ◼   ► having the screen on a lot. Then a lot of then some of the

00:13:03 ◼   ► reviews have said, oh, we had to charge it midway through the day or whatever,

00:13:06 ◼   ► but you it seemed like for the most part that's fairly accurate if you use it

00:13:10 ◼   ► lightly the way Apple has made it possible to use today. The iPhone and

00:13:15 ◼   ► iPad are both similarly advertised. I think I don't know if you actually use

00:13:19 ◼   ► the phrase all day battery life on the iPhone yet, but I'm pretty sure they've

00:13:22 ◼   ► used it on the iPad and you know similarly advertised of yeah all day and

00:13:26 ◼   ► And the iPad that actually seems pretty accurate,

00:13:29 ◼   ► it seems like it gets about eight to 10 hours of battery life

00:13:33 ◼   ► depending on what it's doing most of the time.

00:13:36 ◼   ► The iPhone is more varied, it seems to depend more

00:13:40 ◼   ► on what you're doing and things like radio reception,

00:13:44 ◼   ► how hard the cell radio is working,

00:13:46 ◼   ► whether you're using GPS or not, things like that.

00:13:50 ◼   ► The laptops, Apple advertises them as having,

00:13:53 ◼   ► generally I think the lowest claim they make now

00:13:56 ◼   ► like seven hours and that's on the 15 inch something like that and and their

00:13:59 ◼   ► claims are pretty accurate if you compare them to other third-party light

00:14:05 ◼   ► web browsing type tasks and that's in the nntech one here they they showed

00:14:10 ◼   ► basically the same thing that like their numbers line up pretty well with apples

00:14:13 ◼   ► for a light web browsing workload the problem though is and so you know light

00:14:18 ◼   ► web browsing workloads right now you can get if you if you consider the old

00:14:22 ◼   ► old MacBook Air, the non-retina MacBook Air,

00:14:25 ◼   ► you can get 12 hours on the 13 inch.

00:14:28 ◼   ► But if you only want a retina machine,

00:14:30 ◼   ► which I was saying at this point,

00:14:32 ◼   ► I think most buyers who are considering buying

00:14:34 ◼   ► a new laptop today, the smart move obviously,

00:14:37 ◼   ► I think, is to go retina.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Like I wouldn't consider any other machine today

00:14:41 ◼   ► besides a retina machine.

00:14:42 ◼   ► So for that, you're maxing out at eight hours of light usage

00:14:49 ◼   ► and if you're using it and that's only that's like not

00:14:53 ◼   ► even the fifteen inch. If you get the fifteen inch, you're

00:14:54 ◼   ► maxing out more like six to seven of light usage and then

00:14:58 ◼   ► the heavy usage, which they're heavy usage is not even that

00:15:02 ◼   ► heavy. It's like it's like it's still web browsing, but I

00:15:06 ◼   ► think it's like loading pages more frequently and also

00:15:09 ◼   ► downloading a large file and playing a movie in the

00:15:11 ◼   ► background. I wouldn't call that a very heavy workload.

00:15:14 ◼   ► You're probably not maxing out any of the cores for you know

00:15:17 ◼   ► for a sustained amount of time.

00:15:19 ◼   ► Like there's like, this is a very generous definition

00:15:23 ◼   ► of a heavy workload.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - Well, the movie playing in the background is substantial

00:15:26 ◼   ► because it is just never giving the CPU a break.

00:15:28 ◼   ► It's always just decoding, decoding.

00:15:30 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:15:31 ◼   ► - Unless it's using like hardware H.264.

00:15:34 ◼   ► - Oh, I'm sure it is, but still.

00:15:35 ◼   ► I mean, that's not a very, I mean,

00:15:38 ◼   ► that would have been a heavy test in 2006.

00:15:40 ◼   ► That is not a very heavy test in 2015.

00:15:43 ◼   ► But either way, okay, that's fine.

00:15:46 ◼   ► under that allegedly heavy workload, none of the retina

00:15:50 ◼   ► machines get over five hours. The the new MacBook one gets

00:15:55 ◼   ► five point. Oh, three hours and an insect test. Every other

00:15:58 ◼   ► one was below five and the fifties are four like and this

00:16:03 ◼   ► makes me sad as somebody who usually wants the fifteen inch

00:16:06 ◼   ► laptop. So this like these numbers, this is not all day

00:16:12 ◼   ► battery life and and this is this is my main disappointment

00:16:15 ◼   ► in in the current lineup is that if you if you actually use it in any way

00:16:21 ◼   ► heavily you're not going to make it you're not going to make it on a cross

00:16:25 ◼   ► country flight necessarily you're probably not going to make it all day at

00:16:29 ◼   ► work if you forgot your adapter at home stuff like that like the scenarios that

00:16:34 ◼   ► that don't necessarily happen every day but it's clear that Apple is pushing

00:16:38 ◼   ► that direction like like the MacBook one having no mag safe we talked about this

00:16:42 ◼   ► a lot before where it's pretty clear through the way they were things and

00:16:46 ◼   ► even just the way it's designed it's pretty clear that they don't intend for

00:16:48 ◼   ► this thing to be used plugged in all the time they intend for it to be more like

00:16:52 ◼   ► an iPad where you plug it in like to charge it at night basically and you use

00:16:56 ◼   ► it all day without being plugged in and presumably you're moving about somewhat

00:17:00 ◼   ► but that's as we can see from this under the heavy workload here even the MacBook

00:17:06 ◼   ► one only lasted five hours so that's a pretty short day if you don't have your

00:17:11 ◼   ► if you're not plugging it in and all the other ones even fair much worse. So my

00:17:16 ◼   ► argument here is I wish there was there were some models that that broke out of

00:17:20 ◼   ► this pattern like the heavy workload battery life is such these are such

00:17:23 ◼   ► small numbers and right now Apple like the there used to be different

00:17:27 ◼   ► categories of laptops there would be like the desktop replacement and then

00:17:32 ◼   ► like the kind of mid-range and then the thin and light ultra portables right now

00:17:37 ◼   ► now, it seems like everything Apple makes is a thin and light ultra portable,

00:17:41 ◼   ► and so my argument is I wish they would make not even many, but just like one or

00:17:48 ◼   ► two models that traded thin and lightness a little bit for a bigger

00:17:54 ◼   ► battery and just offered really great battery life. I'm not asking for their

00:17:58 ◼   ► entire line to do this. I know if the nurse is sexy and it sells really well

00:18:02 ◼   ► and that's great and they love it and that's fine. I get the appeal there, but

00:18:06 ◼   ► I wish it wasn't the only choice in the lineup like

00:18:09 ◼   ► there. All these things are, you know, moving some

00:18:11 ◼   ► sliders and and making all these trade-offs. There's so

00:18:14 ◼   ► many trade-offs to be made here with designing a

00:18:16 ◼   ► physical thing like this, especially with battery power

00:18:19 ◼   ► versus weight and and fitness. I want to be clear.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Thinness is not usually the main goal. I think the main

00:18:27 ◼   ► goal is weight savings and fitness is something you can

00:18:30 ◼   ► do afterwards as a result of having removed components

00:18:33 ◼   ► from the inside that were big and heavy, but I just I wish

00:18:36 ◼   ► there were other options here and a lot of people have

00:18:40 ◼   ► pointed to well, you can get an external battery pack for

00:18:42 ◼   ► things like the iPhones and iPads and the MacBook one now

00:18:45 ◼   ► that has usbc that's probably going to be compatible with

00:18:48 ◼   ► with external battery packs as well, though it seems like

00:18:50 ◼   ► there aren't any that really have enough power yet, but you

00:18:53 ◼   ► know they that will happen. You'll be able to get external

00:18:56 ◼   ► battery packs and that's good, but you can't do it yet. That's

00:19:01 ◼   ► problem number one and problem number two is as you see with

00:19:04 ◼   ► iPhone and battery solutions there.

00:19:07 ◼   ► External battery packs have a huge cost associated with using them rather than just having more

00:19:14 ◼   ► battery life in the device to begin with.

00:19:16 ◼   ► It's similar to how I was complaining a few weeks back about how USB hubs are all pretty

00:19:20 ◼   ► terrible and that by removing USB ports and forcing people to use hubs you're forcing

00:19:24 ◼   ► people to trade a nice reliable internal integrated thing for an external thing made by random

00:19:30 ◼   ► third parties that usually isn't very good.

00:19:33 ◼   ► have similar issues where if the device has good battery life up front built in

00:19:38 ◼   ► then it's it's just nicer it's better if you have to rely on extra batteries

00:19:42 ◼   ► external batteries have their own charging circuitry they have their own

00:19:44 ◼   ► cases if you're talking about like an iPhone battery case that means you have

00:19:48 ◼   ► like two different layers of plastic or metal around this battery that you have

00:19:53 ◼   ► to then add to the thickness of the phone rather than just having it built

00:19:55 ◼   ► in and skipping all those layers you have ports to worry about you have

00:19:59 ◼   ► different cables you have to keep it charged somehow and it charges

00:20:02 ◼   ► separately and it might not be like a pass-through kind of charge or you have

00:20:05 ◼   ► a different cable. There's so many little annoyances and and costs and burdens

00:20:10 ◼   ► taxes really associated with relying on external battery packs to supplement

00:20:15 ◼   ► your devices. It's so much nicer and and more efficient to have them built in.

00:20:19 ◼   ► We were talking about this earlier in the week I think I mentioned like a Mophie

00:20:24 ◼   ► for your Apple Watch. Same deal with the Apple Watch, not a lot of battery life.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Well get a crazy g-shock looking mofi type case that clamps on the thing somehow and provides extra battery power

00:20:35 ◼   ► We're making it bulkier. Well for the MacBook one

00:20:37 ◼   ► How about like a an iPhone mofi style thing for the MacBook one that clamps onto the bottom and makes it thicker, right?

00:20:42 ◼   ► or you know thinking of your the logical conclusion of your

00:20:45 ◼   ► Sort of battery outlier thing is bring back the 17-inch put the MacBook ones CPU inside it just fill the rest with battery

00:20:53 ◼   ► Still still one port of course, that's the thing too because because they offer machines that have giant batteries

00:21:00 ◼   ► But they have hotter CPUs and GBs exactly like as you move up the battery capacity amount

00:21:05 ◼   ► they also ramp up the component types so that you can't get a

00:21:10 ◼   ► 15 inch MacBook Pro with a 15 watt TDP CPU in it like the ones that go in the MacBook Air

00:21:16 ◼   ► You can't get that

00:21:17 ◼   ► They don't offer that option and I would do that if they offered

00:21:19 ◼   ► The MacBook one CPU is pretty low that they get to get that that that 4.5 watt TDP

00:21:25 ◼   ► I might still take it but it's pretty low

00:21:27 ◼   ► But even if they just put the MacBook air class CPU the 15 watt ish TDP range

00:21:32 ◼   ► They take that and put it in the 15 inch rather than the 35 40 watt TDPs

00:21:38 ◼   ► They have in there for the quad cores. I would buy that because that then you'd have this computer that has

00:21:43 ◼   ► Way more battery life than the current 15s and yeah, it wouldn't have as good a performance

00:21:49 ◼   ► but I don't necessarily need quad cores on my laptop and I bet I'm not the only

00:21:53 ◼   ► one I mean you can look right now you can see the sales of the MacBook one

00:21:56 ◼   ► being apparently pretty good considering you can't get them like they're there

00:22:00 ◼   ► it seems like they the sales are likely exceeding their projected demand for it

00:22:05 ◼   ► so obviously there there is demand here for things that have other qualities

00:22:11 ◼   ► besides top performance man I would kill for it for why I wouldn't kill but I

00:22:16 ◼   ► I would love a 15 inch laptop that had a really low power

00:22:21 ◼   ► CPU in it and just gave me all that bonus battery life

00:22:24 ◼   ► as a trade off to that.

00:22:26 ◼   ► - Did you see the link they put in the chat room

00:22:27 ◼   ► to this tough armor snap on case for the Apple Watch?

00:22:31 ◼   ► This does not add battery to it,

00:22:32 ◼   ► but just merely makes your Apple Watch bigger and uglier.

00:22:34 ◼   ► - This is so bad.

00:22:35 ◼   ► - Oh my God, that was not a joke?

00:22:37 ◼   ► - No, look, I put the link in,

00:22:38 ◼   ► look at the links in the chat room.

00:22:40 ◼   ► - I saw a picture of this fly by on Twitter,

00:22:41 ◼   ► I thought it was a joke.

00:22:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I guess it protects the nice shiny,

00:22:46 ◼   ► If you get the sport one and don't want people to know,

00:22:48 ◼   ► you cover it up with this thing.

00:22:50 ◼   ► And like, oh yeah, it's the Apple Watch.

00:22:52 ◼   ► It's not the sport at all.

00:22:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't think,

00:22:55 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:22:56 ◼   ► I don't think you're gaining anything

00:22:57 ◼   ► by adding this to it though.

00:22:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's too bad it doesn't come with any battery.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - So bad.

00:23:02 ◼   ► It's funny you were talking about thinness and battery life

00:23:04 ◼   ► because although I don't have a lot to say

00:23:06 ◼   ► about the battery life,

00:23:08 ◼   ► earlier today I was at work and the IT guy at work

00:23:13 ◼   ► sent me an IM and was like, "Hey, I have a Mac question for you. Would you mind coming

00:23:17 ◼   ► over?" And so I went over to his desk and long story short, our CEO had upgraded from

00:23:22 ◼   ► the very, very first retina MacBook Pro to a brand new 15 inch retina MacBook Pro. And

00:23:28 ◼   ► the IT guy wanted to get our CEOs 160 or whatever it was gig VMware Fusion VM from one laptop

00:23:36 ◼   ► to the other. And he had this like three terabyte external drive hanging off the old machine.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And he said, "Well, it won't let me write to it."

00:23:45 ◼   ► Why?

00:23:46 ◼   ► Because it's NCFS.

00:23:47 ◼   ► And so initially, my first thought was,

00:23:50 ◼   ► well, duh, let's just get a couple of ethernet cables

00:23:53 ◼   ► and hook it up to a switch and life will be good,

00:23:57 ◼   ► except they're too thin

00:23:58 ◼   ► and they don't have ethernet ports.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And so I said, okay,

00:24:00 ◼   ► well, we'll just get the stupid dongle.

00:24:02 ◼   ► So you have, oh, we don't have any dongles.

00:24:04 ◼   ► And it's like, I understand why we want them to be thin.

00:24:08 ◼   ► Just like you guys said, it's sexy, it sells,

00:24:11 ◼   ► it's lighter in many cases,

00:24:13 ◼   ► easier to carry, but God, what I wouldn't have given

00:24:16 ◼   ► for a couple of darn ethernet ports.

00:24:18 ◼   ► Like, is that really too much to ask?

00:24:21 ◼   ► I don't know, it just seems crazy to me.

00:24:22 ◼   ► - Why don't you just reboot into Windows?

00:24:25 ◼   ► - Well, and actually what he had said was, you know what?

00:24:27 ◼   ► I'll dupe the VM and I'll have one of the VMs in Windows

00:24:32 ◼   ► copy the copy onto the external drive,

00:24:36 ◼   ► the copy the duplicate of the VM onto the external drive.

00:24:39 ◼   ► So it's Windows writing to an NTFS partition.

00:24:42 ◼   ► But that was really convoluted until,

00:24:44 ◼   ► and we almost did it until we realized that,

00:24:47 ◼   ► oh wait, we have other externals we can use

00:24:48 ◼   ► and we can just format them to be HFS plus ding

00:24:52 ◼   ► and pray for the best.

00:24:54 ◼   ► Now I did try airdrop,

00:24:55 ◼   ► but that was so unbelievably slow for 160 gig file

00:24:59 ◼   ► that we didn't even see the little circle progress meters

00:25:02 ◼   ► start to fill in.

00:25:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's probably not really made for that.

00:25:05 ◼   ► - No.

00:25:06 ◼   ► - And you couldn't do Thunderbolt both ways?

00:25:08 ◼   ► They have that now.

00:25:10 ◼   ► - I didn't know if that was a possibility

00:25:12 ◼   ► and I was confident we didn't have the cables,

00:25:13 ◼   ► even if it was.

00:25:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the other part, yeah.

00:25:15 ◼   ► The problem with Thunderbolt networking

00:25:17 ◼   ► is that nobody has Thunderbolt cables just lying around.

00:25:19 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:25:20 ◼   ► I don't know, it's just, I agree with you guys.

00:25:22 ◼   ► I wish just a shade more thickness

00:25:25 ◼   ► I really don't think would be so bad.

00:25:27 ◼   ► - And again, it doesn't have to be the whole product line.

00:25:29 ◼   ► It doesn't even have to be the main product.

00:25:32 ◼   ► But the 13 inch MacBook Pro, the 15 inch MacBook Pro,

00:25:36 ◼   ► these are things that are already,

00:25:38 ◼   ► they're a little bit past the mainstream.

00:25:40 ◼   ► They're a little bit above the mainstream.

00:25:41 ◼   ► 15 is significantly above the mainstream. And I even said in the article, like, I wish

00:25:46 ◼   ► they'd bring back the 17. And I got a lot of people saying, "Oh my God, I'll buy that

00:25:50 ◼   ► in a second." People love the 17. But it's okay to have something at the top of the lineup

00:25:57 ◼   ► that is not thin and light. Like, even if you look even at the new Mac Pro design, right,

00:26:02 ◼   ► like which we talked about, I think, in the past. But even if you look at that, they've

00:26:07 ◼   ► they've made trade-offs there that weren't necessarily that

00:26:11 ◼   ► nobody was really asking for, but they made them regardless

00:26:15 ◼   ► and like reducing the amount of slots and bays and ports and

00:26:18 ◼   ► everything and some of that is beneficial and some of it is

00:26:22 ◼   ► just kind of well, I didn't really need that, but oh well

00:26:25 ◼   ► and again like I wish that like for things like the pro

00:26:28 ◼   ► customers, the pro products.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I wish the thinness and lightness wasn't as high of a

00:26:34 ◼   ► priority as it is. I still want them to work on that and bring

00:26:37 ◼   ► to like the 15 inch line but again it doesn't have to be the only option. Yeah

00:26:43 ◼   ► all right why don't you tell us about something that's cool these days. Our

00:26:46 ◼   ► first sponsor this week is Cards Against Humanity. Oh yes.

00:26:52 ◼   ► So John what is the toaster oven of the week? So this week we have the Proctor

00:27:06 ◼   ► "Cylex Durable Toaster Oven Broiler" model number,

00:27:10 ◼   ► I think this is the model number, 31116R.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Wow, this is a small one, very small.

00:27:18 ◼   ► I think it's the smallest toaster I've tried so far.

00:27:21 ◼   ► Barely fits two slices of bread.

00:27:23 ◼   ► It looks very tiny and cute.

00:27:24 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, wait, is this white?

00:27:26 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:27:27 ◼   ► - I asked not because of white.

00:27:29 ◼   ► Ha ha ha ha.

00:27:30 ◼   ► No, because I'm looking up on Amazon

00:27:32 ◼   ► as you're talking to me about this.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And as you're saying the words,

00:27:36 ◼   ► you can barely fit two slices in it.

00:27:38 ◼   ► I see the title on Amazon, which reads,

00:27:40 ◼   ► and I'm reading this directly,

00:27:42 ◼   ► Proctor Seileck's four-slice toaster oven, comma, white.

00:27:46 ◼   ► - That's definitely not it.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Like, the knobs are not even close.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Anyway, very small, two slices if you're lucky.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I think two big slices probably wouldn't even fit.

00:27:55 ◼   ► It's got two, I think the quartz elements,

00:27:57 ◼   ► the big, larger ones that light up really quickly

00:28:00 ◼   ► instead of like the resistive ones

00:28:01 ◼   ► that are thinner and take a long time to glow.

00:28:03 ◼   ► Two big elements, one on top, one on bottom,

00:28:05 ◼   ► with really big, nice metal guards over them.

00:28:08 ◼   ► It looks kind of cute, but part of that cuteness

00:28:11 ◼   ► is the fact that it has a curved top,

00:28:14 ◼   ► which is just a bad idea.

00:28:16 ◼   ► 'Cause everyone wants to put stuff on top of the toaster.

00:28:18 ◼   ► At the very least, you put the little tray

00:28:19 ◼   ► that it comes with on top of the toaster.

00:28:20 ◼   ► Maybe you put potholders on top of it.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I know you probably shouldn't put a lot of stuff

00:28:23 ◼   ► 'cause it gets hot, but people do,

00:28:25 ◼   ► and you don't have a lot of counter space.

00:28:26 ◼   ► You put stuff on top of the toaster.

00:28:26 ◼   ► You make it curved, everything you put on top

00:28:28 ◼   ► sort of wants to skitter off the side.

00:28:30 ◼   ► It's ridiculous, so bad idea there.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Door feels pretty flimsy.

00:28:34 ◼   ► The handle attached to the door feels flimsy.

00:28:36 ◼   ► When you open the door,

00:28:37 ◼   ► it feels like it might come off in your hand.

00:28:39 ◼   ► It doesn't pull the tray out when you open.

00:28:41 ◼   ► The pan, like the little pan that it comes with,

00:28:45 ◼   ► has a thing where it slides underneath the wire rack.

00:28:47 ◼   ► So you can kind of put something on the wire rack.

00:28:49 ◼   ► Then if it drips, it won't drip onto the heating element.

00:28:51 ◼   ► It'll drip into the pan.

00:28:52 ◼   ► But of course the pan will also block the heat.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure why that is in there,

00:28:55 ◼   ► but it's an interesting feature at least.

00:28:57 ◼   ► That tray sturdiness is reasonable.

00:29:00 ◼   ► It doesn't look like it was stamped

00:29:01 ◼   ► out of a piece of aluminum foil,

00:29:02 ◼   ► but it's not particularly sturdy.

00:29:03 ◼   ► It's got two knobs on front, a refreshingly simple interface.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Just two knobs, no buttons, no anything else.

00:29:11 ◼   ► The top knob is for temperature, so you go from 0 to 450, and then if you go past 450

00:29:15 ◼   ► you're into the toast zone.

00:29:17 ◼   ► It's got a broil setting too that's right around 450.

00:29:20 ◼   ► And the bottom knob is basically just a timer.

00:29:22 ◼   ► They put a bunch of markings on it, but what it boils down to is you turn it clockwise

00:29:25 ◼   ► and it's a timer.

00:29:26 ◼   ► You turn it to the left and it's just forced on and it stays on.

00:29:30 ◼   ► This toaster is a ticker.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Oh, you must love that.

00:29:33 ◼   ► The way you do anything with it is top knob either set it to a temperature to bake set it to broil or set it

00:29:38 ◼   ► To toast and then to make it do anything you take the bottom knob and you crank it either you put it to the force

00:29:44 ◼   ► On position which I'm not sure why you do that. Maybe because like the bottom timer only goes to 15 minutes

00:29:48 ◼   ► So if you want to go for longer than 15 and don't want to have to re crank it

00:29:51 ◼   ► Just put it in the forced on position and I guess don't forget that it's on or you'll burn your house down

00:29:55 ◼   ► But yeah, you turn it to whatever you want and they have little marks

00:29:59 ◼   ► It look like toast getting darker around the five-minute mark, but bottom line

00:30:02 ◼   ► It's just a timer tick tick tick tick tick pretty darn loud. Maybe two ticks a second

00:30:06 ◼   ► I really don't like taking toasters. I just you know it

00:30:11 ◼   ► Just you don't want that in the morning

00:30:13 ◼   ► Do you want to have this loud thing ticking in your kitchen in the morning? I definitely don't really

00:30:17 ◼   ► I mean I would think it would be helpful to help to help indicate that it is on

00:30:21 ◼   ► Well, I mean like what I want from a toaster is again like for informed by my childhood

00:30:26 ◼   ► But we had a little knob you push it down and then when it's done

00:30:29 ◼   ► That goes ding and little thing comes up and that lets you know that your toast is done in between

00:30:34 ◼   ► I don't need to know right just ding when you're done. That's all I want

00:30:38 ◼   ► So but anyway, it's it's a small toaster. It has the two big quartz elements

00:30:42 ◼   ► I had some high hopes that it would be a fast toaster, but it is way slow

00:30:47 ◼   ► it was like more than a minute slower than my other toaster to toast a single slice of bread and

00:30:51 ◼   ► The reason that does that is that the bottom element does not turn on when you're in toast mode

00:30:57 ◼   ► The bottom element does not turn them on you're in boil mode

00:31:00 ◼   ► The only time the bottom heating element turns I thought was broken at first

00:31:02 ◼   ► The only time the bottom heating and what turns on is when you're in bake mode and I don't understand that at all

00:31:06 ◼   ► Like if I want to toast I want both sides of the bread toasted

00:31:09 ◼   ► How are you gonna toast both sides of the bread if you just turn on the top element?

00:31:11 ◼   ► So it makes it super slow and it's stupid

00:31:14 ◼   ► So you like it this is my least favorite toaster because it's really small it's really slow it ticks and it does something dumb

00:31:22 ◼   ► I didn't get the

00:31:24 ◼   ► Maybe if I put it on bake at 450 it would toast bread faster than if I put it on toast

00:31:29 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, and of course you have to turn it knobs exactly the right spot, which is you know, very fuzzy or whatever

00:31:34 ◼   ► So big thumbs down in this toaster at high hopes given just the specs and the size but that just does too many things wrong

00:31:53 ◼   ► Four slice capacity. You've got to be kidding me. Like do you know that cinnamon raisin bread that peppered for themselves?

00:31:58 ◼   ► You know that comes in a little plastic bag. It's pre sliced. Yep. You know how small those slices are

00:32:03 ◼   ► I don't think you could fit four of them in here

00:32:05 ◼   ► Could you fit four melba toasts in here for what?

00:32:09 ◼   ► probably

00:32:11 ◼   ► But no it is it is a ridiculous toaster for this price

00:32:16 ◼   ► I would have to see the price of the tuna black and Decker one because the tuna black and Decker one was way better and

00:32:22 ◼   ► Just a little bit bigger and it was similarly featured two knobs turned to the right thing or whatever

00:32:27 ◼   ► But it just did the job better it toasted actually toasted stuff

00:32:30 ◼   ► Like I would I could never wait for this thing to toast something and when it was done

00:32:32 ◼   ► It would just have toasted at the top. So

00:32:34 ◼   ► Do not buy this toaster. Well, thanks a lot to Cards Against Humanity for sponsoring this week. All right

00:32:40 ◼   ► That was exciting. I love those

00:32:43 ◼   ► Speaking of exciting John your one of your favorite albums is

00:32:50 ◼   ► available again. Well, it never really wasn't available, but half of the internet has written

00:32:56 ◼   ► us to inform us that the Journey soundtrack is available on vinyl. So, are you picking

00:33:01 ◼   ► a copy up? Everyone should have been writing to you, because you might be excited about

00:33:06 ◼   ► it. Why would I be excited about it? I have the Journey soundtrack in a digital form.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Actually, I do as well. Yeah, and I would never want it on a record, because A) I don't

00:33:14 ◼   ► have anything to play it on, and B) why would I want that? Why? You mean you don't want

00:33:18 ◼   ► things to be less convenient, scratchy, less reliable over time, bigger and also sound

00:33:23 ◼   ► worse?

00:33:24 ◼   ► >> Yes, yes, yes.

00:33:25 ◼   ► >> Maybe like the picture discs, they look kind of cool and the album cover is kind of

00:33:31 ◼   ► cool art wise, but I do also have the Journey art books. I feel like I have the Journey

00:33:35 ◼   ► artwork stuff covered.

00:33:37 ◼   ► >> So it's at best a poster and at worst a trinket.

00:33:39 ◼   ► >> Yep. I mean, it's like maybe a kind of a neat collectible thing, but I would never

00:33:44 ◼   ► play it or anything. But, you know, in case you might like it, you would get them and

00:33:47 ◼   ► bring them to your dad's fancy turntable, right?

00:33:49 ◼   ► Well, that's the thing is I was going to remind the internet who seems to forget

00:33:53 ◼   ► so often that I actually do not own a turntable.

00:33:56 ◼   ► And I think that, and I think that people seem to forget that just because I

00:33:59 ◼   ► fancy turntables and just because I think that the tea ceremony is fun and

00:34:04 ◼   ► I won't say whether or not I think they sound better, but I actually do not own

00:34:09 ◼   ► a turntable. And of course, anytime anything happens, even vaguely related to

00:34:13 ◼   ► vinyl. Half the internet comes to remind me either that vinyl is terrible or "oh

00:34:17 ◼   ► haha look people are actually buying vinyl you're all frickin crazy" etc etc.

00:34:23 ◼   ► But no I actually do not own a turntable and I'd like to get one at some point

00:34:27 ◼   ► but I don't have one so I'm not going to be buying this either and if I did just

00:34:30 ◼   ► like you said John I'd be bringing it to dads to listen to it there. Out of

00:34:34 ◼   ► curiosity what was the Journey soundtrack originally recorded onto an

00:34:38 ◼   ► analog medium and then kept analog through its entire editing and mastering

00:34:42 ◼   ► process? Oh, surely not. Yeah. It is, it is recordings of people playing instruments,

00:34:48 ◼   ► so start, it started off analog in that respect. Okay, so it isn't purely, you know, an electronic

00:34:53 ◼   ► music soundtrack. Okay. But yeah, so I don't mind people who like vinyl. I just mind when

00:34:59 ◼   ► they start saying it sounds better, because it sounds different and by almost every actual

00:35:07 ◼   ► like objective measure, it sounds worse, but it does sound different. In some ways, it

00:35:12 ◼   ► can be more pleasing to people or it can bring back fond memories of the past, and that's

00:35:18 ◼   ► why it's popular. None of those things are evidence to tell people that it just sounds

00:35:25 ◼   ► better.

00:35:26 ◼   ► - Well, it's popular now because it's retro. That's why the quote-unquote hipsters like

00:35:30 ◼   ► it because it is, because they don't have any nostalgic, probably, they were already

00:35:35 ◼   ► going to live, you know, their parents didn't play record albums for them when they were

00:35:39 ◼   ► young but it is a retro thing, you know.

00:35:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, there is effectively no technical merit for it. There are lots of other reasons

00:35:47 ◼   ► to enjoy it but any technical argument is not founded in reality.

00:35:53 ◼   ► - Are you done?

00:35:56 ◼   ► - I think so, for today.

00:35:58 ◼   ► - I so deeply regret bringing this up. All right, so we should probably bring up WWDC

00:36:05 ◼   ► tickets, and how that turned out. We've been asked several times, I have not knowingly

00:36:10 ◼   ► replied to anyone on Twitter, I didn't know what the group of us wanted to do, if we wanted

00:36:15 ◼   ► to make it a surprise or we wanted to share, and we have concluded we would like to share.

00:36:19 ◼   ► So Jon, are you going to be able to go to WWDC?

00:36:23 ◼   ► I don't know, I entered the WWDC ticket lottery and I did not get a ticket in the lottery,

00:36:29 ◼   ► and I am not going without a ticket. So, there you have it, if I don't get a ticket I'm not

00:36:35 ◼   ► going right now, I am not going. I still have my hotel booked because it's easy to cancel

00:36:39 ◼   ► up to 24 hours before, but I do not have any flights booked and I'm not going without a

00:36:43 ◼   ► ticket. So I'm kind of bummed by that and I was especially bummed hearing all the other

00:36:48 ◼   ► people who did get tickets in the lottery. Those people may or may not include Marco?

00:36:53 ◼   ► I did in fact get a ticket in the lottery. Which is extremely exciting and I actually

00:36:58 ◼   ► did as well, which I'm very excited about. And I am very, very sad, Jon, that you did

00:37:02 ◼   ► not get a ticket. I really wish that all three of us did. And who knows, maybe the WWDC ferry

00:37:09 ◼   ► will sprinkle a ticket on you some way somehow. But yeah, that is the situation. So for those

00:37:15 ◼   ► of you who had asked, that's the deal. Any other thoughts on that from the two of you?

00:37:20 ◼   ► It's pretty good. Like two out of three. Two out of the three hosts got tickets in the

00:37:24 ◼   ► lottery. That seems pretty good in the grand scheme of things.

00:37:27 ◼   ► Yeah, it does seem like, I mean last year there was, as you mentioned last time, there

00:37:32 ◼   ► there was a system last year where you could enter

00:37:33 ◼   ► from multiple developer accounts,

00:37:35 ◼   ► and you could enter if you weren't really that sure

00:37:37 ◼   ► if you wanted to go, you just wanted to see maybe,

00:37:38 ◼   ► oh, maybe I'll get the opportunity to buy a ticket.

00:37:40 ◼   ► This year, you had to commit to buy one,

00:37:43 ◼   ► and they would charge you to give it to you.

00:37:45 ◼   ► - Oh, we should talk about that too,

00:37:46 ◼   ► because that is heartbreaking.

00:37:47 ◼   ► For the people who won the lottery,

00:37:51 ◼   ► and Apple tried to charge their card,

00:37:52 ◼   ► - Oh, yeah. - and got the charge,

00:37:54 ◼   ► the charge didn't work, because their credit card company

00:37:56 ◼   ► like flagged it as fraud or whatever,

00:37:58 ◼   ► and in many cases immediately called the people and said,

00:38:00 ◼   ► "Hey, some company just tried to charge your card $1600.

00:38:05 ◼   ► We blocked it, do you wanna let the charge through?"

00:38:07 ◼   ► And they'd be like, "Yes, yes, let the charge through."

00:38:08 ◼   ► But it was too late.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Apple didn't moved on and gave their ticket to someone else.

00:38:12 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that didn't happen to me,

00:38:14 ◼   ► but that would have just broken my heart even more.

00:38:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, to Marco's point,

00:38:17 ◼   ► I know that happened to Swilliams

00:38:19 ◼   ► and he handled it much better than I would have,

00:38:22 ◼   ► but he was pretty upset about it.

00:38:23 ◼   ► I would have been just fricking devastated.

00:38:26 ◼   ► And it's funny because I don't remember

00:38:28 ◼   ► if I told the story on the show,

00:38:28 ◼   ► What's suffice it to say, during the registration process,

00:38:32 ◼   ► even though I didn't read the part where it says,

00:38:34 ◼   ► oh, you're going to be Insta-charged if you win,

00:38:37 ◼   ► I did read something which I couldn't find

00:38:40 ◼   ► when I went back to look for it.

00:38:42 ◼   ► So I feel like it was during the process of registering

00:38:45 ◼   ► that I saw it.

00:38:46 ◼   ► But anyway, it said, you should probably warn your bank

00:38:50 ◼   ► that this is gonna happen

00:38:51 ◼   ► because we are reserving the right to just punt you

00:38:54 ◼   ► if your card is declined.

00:38:56 ◼   ► And so I saw that and I immediately called Bank of America and yes before you write me

00:39:01 ◼   ► I understand that you hate Bank of America and they screwed you I get it Bank of America sucks vinyl sucks

00:39:06 ◼   ► I know this is not the year of Casey apparently. It's an all-out attack on Casey right now

00:39:10 ◼   ► It is wait till we talk about the white shirt. Oh

00:39:12 ◼   ► Anyway, so I called Bank of America and this is actually the first not awesome experience I've had with a second not off awesome experience

00:39:20 ◼   ► I've had with Bank of America and I called them and I said hey, you know, I'd like to pre-authorize this charge

00:39:25 ◼   ► So it goes through blah blah blah and they said that's lovely, but we don't pre-authorize things

00:39:28 ◼   ► Okay now it turned out that I did win the lottery

00:39:34 ◼   ► I did get insta charged and it did go through which was slightly surprising because just a couple of years ago

00:39:40 ◼   ► I don't remember which one it was

00:39:42 ◼   ► I did have the WWE DC ticket

00:39:45 ◼   ► Declined originally. I think this might have been the last year of the mad rush

00:39:50 ◼   ► No

00:39:50 ◼   ► I'm sorry the next last year of the mad rush and

00:39:53 ◼   ► You know, they called me and said do you want this? Yes. Yes for the love of God. Yes, let it go through and

00:39:57 ◼   ► And so I was scared this year, but apparently it all worked out

00:40:01 ◼   ► But first Williams he it's we had talked briefly he and I and I believe he said he had pretty much

00:40:06 ◼   ► Instantly just like Marco was there money you said had instantly said yes

00:40:10 ◼   ► Let the charge through and Apple had already moved on it was already too late tough no geez and that I

00:40:15 ◼   ► Understand that but gosh, that's stinky man. I don't know. I don't understand that I

00:40:23 ◼   ► say, you know, give it a window of time,

00:40:25 ◼   ► maybe even 24 hours.

00:40:26 ◼   ► It's like, it doesn't need to all,

00:40:29 ◼   ► it's not as if there's a race for this all to be settled.

00:40:31 ◼   ► Like we need to have all the tickets given to someone

00:40:33 ◼   ► and it's like, if they won the lottery and they got picked,

00:40:36 ◼   ► give it 24 hours for the charge to go through.

00:40:38 ◼   ► I think that's reasonable, something like that.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Because moving on immediately is just, you know,

00:40:41 ◼   ► 'cause I didn't, you know, I didn't call to pre-authorize.

00:40:44 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that wasn't the problem.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Like I never saw any charges on the card

00:40:48 ◼   ► and never got any calls about any charges being reduced.

00:40:50 ◼   ► I just didn't win the lottery period, right?

00:40:51 ◼   ► But if I did, I would be super upset.

00:40:54 ◼   ► I don't feel like that's a great way to do this.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Again, it's not like they were in a rush.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Like 24 hours is fine.

00:41:01 ◼   ► And for those people who won the lottery and then lost it,

00:41:05 ◼   ► man, I mean, I guess it makes someone else happy

00:41:07 ◼   ► because their ticket went to somebody else

00:41:08 ◼   ► who previously wouldn't have won the lottery,

00:41:10 ◼   ► but it's just, boy, that's a bummer.

00:41:13 ◼   ► - It's a pretty crappy way to lose.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And yeah, what Casey said, they did warn you on the pigs

00:41:18 ◼   ► during the buying process.

00:41:19 ◼   ► they told you this is what would happen.

00:41:22 ◼   ► Just because they say that doesn't mean

00:41:23 ◼   ► there's anything you can do

00:41:24 ◼   ► to stop the stupid credit card company.

00:41:26 ◼   ► Sometimes you can call them and say,

00:41:27 ◼   ► "Please, just please let this through."

00:41:29 ◼   ► And they'll be like, "Either we can't do this,"

00:41:31 ◼   ► or be like, "Oh yeah, sure, we'll totally let that through,"

00:41:32 ◼   ► and they'll reject it anyway.

00:41:33 ◼   ► It's not like there's a human there approving this charge.

00:41:35 ◼   ► It's just a bunch of algorithms.

00:41:37 ◼   ► I don't know, maybe you're picking the wrong card.

00:41:40 ◼   ► I may change which card is attached to my Apple ID

00:41:43 ◼   ► to one that gets used more frequently

00:41:45 ◼   ► so that this charge wouldn't look so strange on it

00:41:47 ◼   ► or whatever, but anyway.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Save that for next year.

00:41:50 ◼   ► - I would say that was like the one aspect of this

00:41:52 ◼   ► that didn't feel fair.

00:41:53 ◼   ► The rest of it felt very fair, very nicely run,

00:41:57 ◼   ► it was executed well.

00:41:58 ◼   ► The whole rest of it I thought was great,

00:42:00 ◼   ► but the credit card fraud thing,

00:42:01 ◼   ► I think that was like the one part

00:42:03 ◼   ► that is just kind of crappy for people.

00:42:07 ◼   ► And it happened to a lot of people.

00:42:08 ◼   ► It wasn't just Williams.

00:42:09 ◼   ► I heard from a lot of people who it happened to,

00:42:10 ◼   ► and that's really unfortunate.

00:42:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, it really is.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And you know, even though I said I understand it,

00:42:15 ◼   ► as Jon was talking, I was thinking,

00:42:16 ◼   ► You know, they told pretty much everyone, what was it, this past Friday, is that correct?

00:42:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:23 ◼   ► You could have left a 24-hour grace period for them to register and still had time, if

00:42:29 ◼   ► it didn't work out, to give other people the ticket and still made it by the promised time

00:42:35 ◼   ► of five in the evening on Monday, Pacific time.

00:42:38 ◼   ► So it is a major bummer, and God, do I feel terrible for Sue Williams and the other people

00:42:43 ◼   ► who had this happen to them.

00:42:45 ◼   ► I agree with you Marco that all told and I'd like to think I would say this even if I didn't get a ticket

00:42:50 ◼   ► This was probably about as fair as they could have made it

00:42:54 ◼   ► And like I said for the first Williams and people who got like it just feels bad because you know that happened

00:42:59 ◼   ► But the bottom line is his ticket went to somebody else who otherwise wouldn't have gotten one

00:43:03 ◼   ► So that person it's in the end. It is simply a random distribution of people

00:43:07 ◼   ► It's just as a little bit of non randomness and like though if you got rejected

00:43:10 ◼   ► Like it's as if some participants never could have won, right?

00:43:14 ◼   ► - I also would say that it does seem just totally anecdotally,

00:43:19 ◼   ► it does seem like a larger proportion of people who applied

00:43:24 ◼   ► got them this year than last year,

00:43:25 ◼   ► indicating that the whole multiple submissions thing

00:43:28 ◼   ► from last year versus this year's committing thing

00:43:31 ◼   ► seems to have helped.

00:43:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would love to know what are the odds

00:43:35 ◼   ► of two out of three of us getting it,

00:43:36 ◼   ► 'cause I feel like they did not give tickets

00:43:39 ◼   ► to two thirds of the applicants.

00:43:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's true, I don't know.

00:43:43 ◼   ► Also a real-time follow-up from Stekert,

00:43:46 ◼   ► he or she said, "There's no such thing as a pre-authorization,

00:43:49 ◼   ► only an authorization.

00:43:50 ◼   ► An authorization needs a payee."

00:43:52 ◼   ► And then they continued, and this is interesting,

00:43:54 ◼   ► "Here's how Apple could do it better.

00:43:55 ◼   ► In the WWDC app," or perhaps in the store app,

00:43:59 ◼   ► "Let people do an Apple Pay to authorize the payment

00:44:02 ◼   ► and then only commit the transaction

00:44:03 ◼   ► if and only if they win the lottery."

00:44:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's what I was saying last week,

00:44:07 ◼   ► was what we would do when we were running e-commerce,

00:44:09 ◼   ► is you do an auth for the amount

00:44:11 ◼   ► at the time they do the thing,

00:44:12 ◼   ► but you don't do the settle part of it

00:44:14 ◼   ► where you actually take the money from them.

00:44:15 ◼   ► Like Auth doesn't do anything, just says,

00:44:16 ◼   ► "Yes, you're authorized to pay this amount to this,

00:44:18 ◼   ► "but like do the testing at that point."

00:44:20 ◼   ► You'd still be in the same situation

00:44:21 ◼   ► of like when you're clicking through the thing,

00:44:23 ◼   ► if they tried to do the Auth and they got rejected,

00:44:25 ◼   ► and then your credit card company called you,

00:44:27 ◼   ► like what would have be happening then?

00:44:28 ◼   ► Would you still be in the flow of clicking through?

00:44:30 ◼   ► Would it send you back to the page

00:44:31 ◼   ► or would it just be like,

00:44:32 ◼   ► "Sorry, we tried to authorize it and we couldn't.

00:44:34 ◼   ► "Now you can never go through this process again."

00:44:36 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:44:37 ◼   ► I mean, you have to think about what their goals are,

00:44:40 ◼   ► but this is, they're tweaking the system.

00:44:42 ◼   ► hopefully they'll tweak it again next year.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Maybe some people were saying in the chat room,

00:44:46 ◼   ► the people whose card got charged and then got rejected

00:44:49 ◼   ► and then didn't get a ticket,

00:44:51 ◼   ► maybe they have some recourse to say,

00:44:53 ◼   ► look, Apple, I won the lottery,

00:44:55 ◼   ► but my card got denied and I approved it.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Is there anything you can do?

00:44:59 ◼   ► I don't know, I haven't heard about anybody

00:45:00 ◼   ► successfully doing that who didn't get their ticket

00:45:04 ◼   ► because their card was rejected.

00:45:05 ◼   ► But anyway, we can't all be winners.

00:45:07 ◼   ► That's life.

00:45:08 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:45:11 ◼   ► - That's super chipper.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And then a final bit of follow up,

00:45:15 ◼   ► just to remind everyone that ATP shirts

00:45:18 ◼   ► are indeed available.

00:45:20 ◼   ► There have been a lot of people

00:45:22 ◼   ► who have already bought them,

00:45:23 ◼   ► which we are all extremely thankful for,

00:45:25 ◼   ► and that is very kind of all of you.

00:45:27 ◼   ► Marco or Jon, I'm not sure which one of you

00:45:29 ◼   ► happens to have this up,

00:45:30 ◼   ► but do you want to talk about,

00:45:32 ◼   ► speaking of shaming Casey,

00:45:34 ◼   ► do you wanna talk about what the breakdown is

00:45:36 ◼   ► of shirts thus far?

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, sure.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I mean, so you can go into campaigns,

00:45:40 ◼   ► you can see this is not private information. If you just go to each one of the campaigns,

00:45:43 ◼   ► you can see how many we've sold. And so the regular shirt, the middle one, we've sold

00:45:50 ◼   ► about 600. The sport, we've sold 216. And the edition, we've sold 108. What's interesting

00:46:00 ◼   ► and the reason why I think Apple made the Apple Watch Edition is that even though we

00:46:06 ◼   ► we have sold roughly a sixth as many editions as we've sold the regular ones, it's making

00:46:10 ◼   ► almost half the profit compared to the regular ones. So that's why the edition exists and

00:46:16 ◼   ► the Apple Watch lineup I'm pretty sure.

00:46:18 ◼   ► Well and the edition is much more than like our edition is twice the price of the shirt.

00:46:22 ◼   ► The Apple Watch edition is more than twice the price of the Apple Watch.

00:46:26 ◼   ► Yeah, by a lot. Yeah, it's yeah.

00:46:28 ◼   ► So we don't know what's going to do their demand curve like at a certain point it starts

00:46:31 ◼   ► that you get diminishing returns, but yeah.

00:46:34 ◼   ► Apparently a lot of people are willing to pay $50

00:46:37 ◼   ► for a t-shirt with gold colored foil on it.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, and we could've, the reason we didn't charge more,

00:46:42 ◼   ► I got a couple people saying you should've charged more,

00:46:44 ◼   ► and we thought about it for the joke value,

00:46:46 ◼   ► I think it would've been funnier if we charged more,

00:46:48 ◼   ► but the reason we didn't is because

00:46:50 ◼   ► we knew some people would buy it.

00:46:52 ◼   ► And I didn't wanna be responsible for somebody

00:46:55 ◼   ► having spent like $100 or $200 on a t-shirt.

00:46:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, like we would be doing it like,

00:47:00 ◼   ► How high can we price it?

00:47:01 ◼   ► Like, would it be funny to price it so high

00:47:03 ◼   ► that we know nobody's gonna buy it?

00:47:04 ◼   ► Or like the three people would buy it?

00:47:06 ◼   ► And bottom line, I'm gonna buy

00:47:09 ◼   ► one of these edition things too.

00:47:10 ◼   ► I'm gonna buy one for my wife.

00:47:11 ◼   ► So I'm buying my own stupid $50 T-shirt myself.

00:47:14 ◼   ► - I bought two.

00:47:15 ◼   ► Yep, one for me, one for Tiff,

00:47:16 ◼   ► and one each of the regular, the shirt edition as well.

00:47:20 ◼   ► Or not the edition, oh, the collection.

00:47:22 ◼   ► God, these terms.

00:47:23 ◼   ► - So the loser shirt out of this.

00:47:25 ◼   ► You gave the breakdowns for ATP shirt, ATP shirt sport,

00:47:29 ◼   ► - An ATP shirt edition, but remember that ATP shirt sport

00:47:32 ◼   ► comes in two different styles

00:47:33 ◼   ► that have two different ink colors on it,

00:47:35 ◼   ► and that Teespring requires two separate campaigns

00:47:37 ◼   ► if you have two different ink colors.

00:47:39 ◼   ► So, ATP shirt sport comes in blue for a men's version,

00:47:42 ◼   ► and white for a women's version.

00:47:44 ◼   ► And the white women's ATP shirt sport

00:47:47 ◼   ► has sold a grand total of three.

00:47:49 ◼   ► - And for the first few days, it sold zero.

00:47:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it sold zero for a long time.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Is it because it's white and people don't like white?

00:47:56 ◼   ► Is it because a lot of women don't want an ATP shirt or don't listen to the show?

00:48:03 ◼   ► I don't think we can get a breakdown.

00:48:05 ◼   ► There's women's versions of all the other shirts as well.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I don't think we can get a breakdown of how many of those are sold.

00:48:10 ◼   ► Maybe when it's over we can find out.

00:48:12 ◼   ► That white sport shirt is just not popular.

00:48:15 ◼   ► It has sold three, which means that they're going to print it because I think three is

00:48:18 ◼   ► the minimum.

00:48:19 ◼   ► So the three lonely people who ordered the white women's shirt, you will get your shirts,

00:48:23 ◼   ► but boy, not a good seller.

00:48:25 ◼   ► All right, so here's the thing, kids. If you want to continue to encourage Marco to think that he's always right about everything, don't buy white shirts.

00:48:32 ◼   ► But if you'd like Marco to be taken down a peg, do me a favor. Do all of us a favor. Buy yourself a white shirt.

00:48:40 ◼   ► And it's a white women's shirt, by the way, so feel free to buy it. You don't have to be a woman to buy it, but be aware of what you're buying.

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00:52:16 ◼   ► - All right, so we put off for the last week or two,

00:52:20 ◼   ► but the time has come.

00:52:22 ◼   ► We should probably talk about photos for OS X.

00:52:25 ◼   ► - I realized listening to last week's show

00:52:27 ◼   ► that we keep talking about photos,

00:52:29 ◼   ► and we mean the application whose name is Photos,

00:52:33 ◼   ► that also happens to deal with photos.

00:52:35 ◼   ► And you know, when I'm saying it,

00:52:37 ◼   ► sometimes I'm saying it with a capital P,

00:52:38 ◼   ► sometimes we're saying it with a lowercase P.

00:52:40 ◼   ► It's another great name from the company

00:52:42 ◼   ► that brought you the mail application that's called mail.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And the notes application that's called notes

00:52:47 ◼   ► and the calendar-- - And contacts.

00:52:49 ◼   ► - That's called calendar and yes, so on and so forth.

00:52:52 ◼   ► - It'd be like naming a magazine the magazine.

00:52:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, seriously.

00:52:55 ◼   ► So. - Anyway.

00:52:59 ◼   ► - Who among us has been using photos

00:53:01 ◼   ► for anything other than launching the empty application

00:53:04 ◼   ► with nothing in it?

00:53:05 ◼   ► - I have, Casey.

00:53:07 ◼   ► - Nope.

00:53:08 ◼   ► - Really?

00:53:09 ◼   ► Have you imported anything into it?

00:53:10 ◼   ► No?

00:53:11 ◼   ► - Nope, nope, I have not touched it.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Every time it comes up, when I put in my SD card

00:53:15 ◼   ► for my camera, I immediately quit and walk away.

00:53:18 ◼   ► - Well, so you have launched it though then.

00:53:19 ◼   ► - Well, it's launched itself.

00:53:21 ◼   ► I haven't knowingly done it.

00:53:22 ◼   ► The reason I haven't touched it is because I've heard

00:53:25 ◼   ► just barely enough horror stories

00:53:27 ◼   ► that I don't wanna go anywhere near it.

00:53:28 ◼   ► And I suspect that the horror stories are one in a million.

00:53:33 ◼   ► I suspect that in some, but not all cases,

00:53:36 ◼   ► it was user error.

00:53:37 ◼   ► But actually just earlier today,

00:53:40 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett was talking to all of us

00:53:42 ◼   ► about how he was having some problems with it.

00:53:44 ◼   ► And yes, I could back up everything 35 more times,

00:53:48 ◼   ► but it's just, this is not a problem that I have in my life

00:53:52 ◼   ► that I feel like photos should or could solve.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - Well, so what are you using instead then?

00:53:58 ◼   ► So in terms of backup, I have photos on my personal machine, I have them duplicated to

00:54:07 ◼   ► the Synology, and then also Time Machine and Crash Plan and Picture Life.

00:54:13 ◼   ► And so between all of those things, I have it, I hope, pretty well covered.

00:54:18 ◼   ► And I freaking love Picture Life.

00:54:21 ◼   ► It's very much like Everpix was before it passed away, let it rest in peace.

00:54:25 ◼   ► And Picture Life does everything I think I need, so I'm going to be listening very intently,

00:54:32 ◼   ► no sarcasm intended, because I would be curious to hear what photos would do that Picture

00:54:37 ◼   ► Life wouldn't do for me.

00:54:38 ◼   ► So you just have the pictures in folders and there's no Mac application?

00:54:44 ◼   ► That's correct.

00:54:45 ◼   ► So how do you like look at your... after you take your pictures on your camera, you plug

00:54:48 ◼   ► your camera into your computer, it slurps them all down into the whatever Picture Life,

00:54:51 ◼   ► but like do you get to see them or do anything with them?

00:54:54 ◼   ► Yeah, so the workflow is I put the SD card in the computer, I go through and I don't--it's

00:54:59 ◼   ► extremely rare that I do any sort of post-processing, but I'll go through and I'll delete the ones that I know are just crap.

00:55:05 ◼   ► I'll delete any raw files that I think I'll never need again and will inevitably regret having deleted.

00:55:10 ◼   ► And then I will run them through a script that I tweaked that Dr. Drang wrote that

00:55:18 ◼   ► will file them into folders by year, then month, and then rename the files so they're named by

00:55:25 ◼   ► entire date including timestamp. The only other thing I'll do that's even vaguely like post-processing is I have some scripts

00:55:32 ◼   ► which I believe I again stole from Dr. Drang that will add geolocation information to them.

00:55:38 ◼   ► But basically what I do is I go through them, delete the ones

00:55:42 ◼   ► I don't want, add geotags if I need to, and then have the script slurp them and file them away, and then Picture Life

00:55:48 ◼   ► automatically finds them and uploads them.

00:55:50 ◼   ► - So when do you look at them?

00:55:51 ◼   ► Do you look at them after Picture Life pulls them up?

00:55:54 ◼   ► Do you open the Picture Life app on your phone or something

00:55:57 ◼   ► or go to the website or?

00:55:58 ◼   ► - No, I mean, I could, but generally speaking,

00:56:00 ◼   ► I look at them as I'm going through all of them

00:56:01 ◼   ► to see which ones I want, which ones I don't want.

00:56:03 ◼   ► - What do you mean as you're going through it,

00:56:04 ◼   ► like in the finder?

00:56:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:56:06 ◼   ► - Using Quick Look to look at them?

00:56:08 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:56:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:56:12 ◼   ► - That's a hell of a, I mean, well, jeez.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess that'll work, I mean.

00:56:16 ◼   ► I'm not saying this is the right way of doing things,

00:56:19 ◼   ► and please, I'm not looking for any answers

00:56:22 ◼   ► other than this app.

00:56:24 ◼   ► So whatever you're going to recommend,

00:56:26 ◼   ► I appreciate it, but it's okay.

00:56:28 ◼   ► I'm okay the way it is.

00:56:31 ◼   ► But I am curious to hear what photos would do for me,

00:56:33 ◼   ► and I'm not saying you won't.

00:56:34 ◼   ► I'm not saying that sarcastically.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I mean that genuinely.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I'm curious to hear what photos would do for me

00:56:38 ◼   ► to make this experience better.

00:56:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's fair.

00:56:42 ◼   ► I mean, it really depends a lot

00:56:44 ◼   ► on how you wanna browse your photos.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I mean, for me, my big problem that I've always had

00:56:49 ◼   ► with photo apps is that you had to choose

00:56:52 ◼   ► like good performance, good editing controls,

00:56:57 ◼   ► and integration with iOS devices.

00:57:00 ◼   ► And you had to choose between those things

00:57:02 ◼   ► and you couldn't have all three of those.

00:57:03 ◼   ► You could have at most two, you know,

00:57:06 ◼   ► kind of like the project management triangle.

00:57:07 ◼   ► Like you could have at most two.

00:57:09 ◼   ► And photos actually hits all three

00:57:12 ◼   ► and it is the first thing to have good iOS integration.

00:57:16 ◼   ► iPhoto and Aperture never did.

00:57:18 ◼   ► PhotoStream was never good.

00:57:20 ◼   ► PhotoStream was always like a half solution

00:57:23 ◼   ► that was almost dangerous in how much it didn't cover

00:57:26 ◼   ► and how it didn't work.

00:57:29 ◼   ► PhotoStream was just a nightmare of confusion

00:57:33 ◼   ► and misled expectations of how it worked

00:57:38 ◼   ► and what it did and what it didn't do.

00:57:40 ◼   ► This is the solution, but the photo app,

00:57:43 ◼   ► we'll talk about the app separately in a second,

00:57:45 ◼   ► but just the whole concept of the photos in the cloud thing,

00:57:47 ◼   ► I think that, this is like the cloud photo service

00:57:50 ◼   ► that we have been begging Apple to make,

00:57:53 ◼   ► 'cause we knew that no one else could really have

00:57:55 ◼   ► the integration into iOS devices the way Apple does.

00:57:59 ◼   ► And we've been begging Apple to make this for years,

00:58:01 ◼   ► and we all thought they never would, and then they did.

00:58:04 ◼   ► And it seems like the cloud component

00:58:07 ◼   ► actually works pretty well.

00:58:08 ◼   ► I mean, I too have heard a couple of horror stories

00:58:12 ◼   ► here and there, but it sounds like the problem

00:58:14 ◼   ► is not in the cloud necessarily.

00:58:17 ◼   ► It's either like, Stephen's story sounds like

00:58:19 ◼   ► the app corrupted itself a little bit,

00:58:21 ◼   ► it's local database.

00:58:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

00:58:23 ◼   ► - I've heard a couple of people who said that

00:58:25 ◼   ► the import didn't import some large chunk of their files,

00:58:29 ◼   ► and those are both serious problems for sure,

00:58:31 ◼   ► but those are very unlikely to be cloud related.

00:58:34 ◼   ► So I think it's safe to say so far with what we've seen,

00:58:37 ◼   ► So far it looks like the cloud part of this

00:58:41 ◼   ► is quite good actually.

00:58:43 ◼   ► It seems to be working and it's all built on like Azure

00:58:47 ◼   ► and Amazon Web Services and stuff as far as we know.

00:58:49 ◼   ► So it should scale properly, it should scale okay.

00:58:53 ◼   ► I mean there's already tons of people importing

00:58:56 ◼   ► massive back catalogs of photos into it

00:58:58 ◼   ► all within the last couple of weeks or within a short time.

00:59:01 ◼   ► And it seems to be doing pretty well.

00:59:04 ◼   ► So overall it seems like the cloud part is fine.

00:59:07 ◼   ► it seemed like the cloud part works.

00:59:09 ◼   ► And that's impressive, that's a very, very

00:59:11 ◼   ► impressive accomplishment right there.

00:59:13 ◼   ► We'll talk about the pricing in a bit,

00:59:15 ◼   ► but functionally it seemed like the cloud part works.

00:59:18 ◼   ► The app is certainly up for debate.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I would say this is definitely not

00:59:24 ◼   ► a replacement for Aperture.

00:59:26 ◼   ► The way that Apple kind of wedged it and said,

00:59:30 ◼   ► "Oh well, we're gonna stop working on Aperture now,"

00:59:32 ◼   ► even though we were kind of never really working on it

00:59:35 ◼   ► that much, but we're gonna stop working on it

00:59:37 ◼   ► for real this time.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And it, you know, that's less good for Aperture users.

00:59:44 ◼   ► I'm coming from Lightroom and I used to use Aperture

00:59:46 ◼   ► and then before that I used iPhoto.

00:59:49 ◼   ► And what I always wanted in iPhoto is just like

00:59:54 ◼   ► the nice simple management that iPhoto offers.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I never wanted the really complicated like filing system

01:00:01 ◼   ► and management and keywording and everything.

01:00:04 ◼   ► I never wanted that part of what Aperture offered

01:00:06 ◼   ► or light room. I really just wanted i photo with better

01:00:10 ◼   ► editing controls and that's what this is. That's what it

01:00:14 ◼   ► feels like a total rewrite of i photo for for the new

01:00:18 ◼   ► generation of everything total. It's like i photo x, you know

01:00:21 ◼   ► like or ten, but however you however you pronounce it for

01:00:24 ◼   ► software like this. That's not the operating system. It does

01:00:28 ◼   ► feel like that it's the the modern version of i photo with

01:00:32 ◼   ► really good editing controls and it does things that I

01:00:35 ◼   ► wouldn't have guessed they would have done. Like for example, it is doing

01:00:38 ◼   ► lossless editing on those adjustments and then it syncs the adjustment values

01:00:43 ◼   ► to your iOS devices. So you can like adjust the brightness on one device and

01:00:48 ◼   ► then you can like go to a different device and keep adjusting the brightness

01:00:51 ◼   ► and it's basing it on the same base image. It isn't like baking it into the

01:00:54 ◼   ► image or making a copy and doing that. Like it's doing it properly. It's doing

01:00:58 ◼   ► what you what you would want it to do. So from all that perspective, this seems

01:01:04 ◼   ► exactly what I wanted and I'm so far I've used it very little so far I

01:01:09 ◼   ► imported my whole library but I've done very little editing in it I browsed a

01:01:14 ◼   ► little bit the browsing interfaces is nice there I have you know some wishlist

01:01:17 ◼   ► items here and there for like you know different views or sorting options or

01:01:20 ◼   ► whatever but for the most part it's minor stuff overall I'm pretty impressed

01:01:24 ◼   ► with it it seems like they took a very big problem that nobody has fully solved

01:01:30 ◼   ► and solved it in exactly the way that is probably

01:01:34 ◼   ► gonna be best for me at least,

01:01:36 ◼   ► and probably a lot of other people.

01:01:39 ◼   ► - All right.

01:01:40 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:01:41 ◼   ► - So are you gonna ever give it a shot, you think,

01:01:43 ◼   ► or are you gonna wait a long time, if ever?

01:01:45 ◼   ► - I think I'm gonna wait between a medium and a long time.

01:01:50 ◼   ► I did hear, and I heard a couple of horror stories

01:01:53 ◼   ► which were like 12th hand information

01:01:54 ◼   ► about large deletions that happened.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Again, when you have as many customers as Apple does, this is inevitably going to happen.

01:02:02 ◼   ► No software is perfect, but especially since I'm a new dad, and even though I have all

01:02:08 ◼   ► my photos in, what did I say, quadruplicate or whatever, I'm scared to mess with this

01:02:17 ◼   ► stuff.

01:02:18 ◼   ► Additionally, one of the things that I've made a critical part of my workflow, which

01:02:24 ◼   ► which is what I described earlier by tagging,

01:02:26 ◼   ► geotagging all my pictures that are taken

01:02:28 ◼   ► with my Micro Four Thirds camera.

01:02:30 ◼   ► Part of the reason I've done that is because

01:02:32 ◼   ► Picture Life does a really good job of allowing you

01:02:34 ◼   ► to search for photos by location.

01:02:37 ◼   ► And I believe it was Unconnected that they said that

01:02:39 ◼   ► it isn't possible to geotag pictures today

01:02:42 ◼   ► with the Photos app, I don't think.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Obviously I've not used it, so this is me going out

01:02:47 ◼   ► on a limb, but I believe that's what they said.

01:02:49 ◼   ► - I think that's right, but I mean, again,

01:02:51 ◼   ► this is a 1.0, really.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Like it is officially like, you know,

01:02:55 ◼   ► the next version of iPhoto and Aperture,

01:02:57 ◼   ► but really it's a 1.0.

01:02:58 ◼   ► It feels like a total ground up rewrite.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So it would not surprise me if things like,

01:03:04 ◼   ► and it will obey geotags that are already embedded

01:03:06 ◼   ► in the files, but it won't let you modify them afterwards.

01:03:09 ◼   ► And you know, that's the kind of thing

01:03:10 ◼   ► I can see them changing later, you know,

01:03:12 ◼   ► adding a feature later.

01:03:13 ◼   ► So that's not a huge deal for me.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And also most of the photos I shoot

01:03:17 ◼   ► are with my iPhone anyway, so it's already geotagged.

01:03:20 ◼   ► So, you know, again, it depends on how you use it.

01:03:22 ◼   ► And one thing I like about it from a paranoia perspective is when we first heard about this

01:03:29 ◼   ► app, you know, almost a year ago, I tell you what you see last year, when we first heard

01:03:33 ◼   ► about it, we talked about it on the show and I had expressed a concern of, you know, I

01:03:38 ◼   ► don't want, I don't want the only copies, the only master copies to be in the cloud.

01:03:43 ◼   ► I want, I want a local app that just has files sitting in the file system that I can then

01:03:48 ◼   ► back up and I can restore if necessary or adjust and that's

01:03:53 ◼   ► what this offers. It is very similar to iPhoto in that it

01:03:56 ◼   ► has a package, which is just a directory. It has a package

01:04:01 ◼   ► that inside that package of its database is just all your

01:04:05 ◼   ► files and they're not organized in any particular useful way,

01:04:08 ◼   ► but they're all there. And so if you ever had to reorganize

01:04:11 ◼   ► them, you could you can order them by their exit dates and

01:04:15 ◼   ► and it'd be fine. So that is all there. I import things into it by dumping a bunch

01:04:20 ◼   ► of files on it. There's nothing saying I couldn't do the same thing again if I

01:04:23 ◼   ► ever had to like start fresh. If there's something ever got corrupted, I had to

01:04:25 ◼   ► like delete all of my photos from iCloud and start over again. It looks like I'd

01:04:30 ◼   ► be able to do that just fine with my regular backup system that I have and I

01:04:34 ◼   ► have this Mac sitting here with all the files on it. It also gives me, you know,

01:04:37 ◼   ► the the options it has for reducing local disk space usage. That is really

01:04:43 ◼   ► string from a backup perspective because you could, for instance, have a Mac Mini

01:04:48 ◼   ► in your house somewhere in your closet or somewhere or at work that has enough

01:04:54 ◼   ► disk space on it that you could have that be a second client and have that

01:04:59 ◼   ► backup your entire library to itself and then maybe on your main computer if you

01:05:03 ◼   ► get a new computer with an SSD in it that maybe you don't maybe don't have

01:05:06 ◼   ► space for all your photos or you don't want to buy the terabyte SSD for a

01:05:09 ◼   ► thousand bucks or whatever, then maybe you can have your

01:05:12 ◼   ► main computer not have all the originals on it and you have

01:05:15 ◼   ► some other some other Mac that is logged in and is backed up

01:05:19 ◼   ► in its own way like with backblaze or whatever have

01:05:22 ◼   ► that logged in and be backed up somewhere else that can have a

01:05:24 ◼   ► big slow disk in it and have that not be part of your main

01:05:27 ◼   ► computer anymore. I can see that especially being helpful

01:05:29 ◼   ► for laptop users. So the options this gives you are for

01:05:34 ◼   ► for geeks like us who want control over the files are

01:05:36 ◼   ► actually pretty good.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I am impressed by them.

01:05:40 ◼   ► And one of the things that makes me want to try it,

01:05:44 ◼   ► as much as I am very reticent to do so,

01:05:47 ◼   ► is I'm probably going to be upgrading

01:05:50 ◼   ► my three or four-year-old personal machine,

01:05:53 ◼   ► which is a 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro,

01:05:55 ◼   ► or not Retina, excuse me, 15-inch Hi-Rez MacBook Pro.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I'm looking at upgrading that

01:06:01 ◼   ► to probably a new 15-inch machine sometime soon.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And this thing has, I think, a 750-gig hard drive in it.

01:06:08 ◼   ► and I don't have an overabundance of free space on it.

01:06:11 ◼   ► And that's in part because I have all 118 gigs

01:06:15 ◼   ► of photos and videos as per picture life on it.

01:06:18 ◼   ► And it does sound really awesome to be able to buy

01:06:22 ◼   ► a computer that maybe doesn't have a tremendous SSD in it,

01:06:26 ◼   ► yet still have access to all my photos

01:06:28 ◼   ► as though they were there.

01:06:29 ◼   ► And I would choose a strategy much like

01:06:31 ◼   ► what you're saying Marco,

01:06:32 ◼   ► I'd probably leave the one I have today,

01:06:34 ◼   ► downloading all of them and operating as a backup

01:06:37 ◼   ► and then have my main machine just grab whatever

01:06:40 ◼   ► one's photo sees fit.

01:06:41 ◼   ► So in terms of what they're promising,

01:06:44 ◼   ► it genuinely does sound really, really good.

01:06:46 ◼   ► And I am very impressed by it.

01:06:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:06:49 ◼   ► Do we want to talk about pricing?

01:06:50 ◼   ► Or Jon, you've been very quiet.

01:06:51 ◼   ► Do you have thoughts about this?

01:06:53 ◼   ► No, it's just listening to what you guys were doing.

01:06:56 ◼   ► I think I talked about this before,

01:06:58 ◼   ► that I was going to be cautious about this.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I didn't install any of the betas.

01:07:01 ◼   ► I didn't enable iCloud photo library

01:07:03 ◼   ► when that was in beta in iOS or anything like that.

01:07:06 ◼   ► I just stayed away from it. But when all the reviews came out for the Photos app, I read

01:07:11 ◼   ► all of them and talked to some of the people who wrote them and asked questions and investigated.

01:07:16 ◼   ► And the thing that made me decide when the official version was released to dive in and

01:07:23 ◼   ► do it and import my real library was the way that it does the imports. If you have an existing

01:07:27 ◼   ► iPhoto library, it will... I have an existing iPhoto library, it's on an external 500GB

01:07:35 ◼   ► SSD, the library itself is around 260, 270 gigs.

01:07:42 ◼   ► I can't duplicate that library and still fit on the disk, but the way it does it if you

01:07:45 ◼   ► have an existing library is it doesn't duplicate the files, it just makes hard links to all

01:07:48 ◼   ► the files, which does not increase the disk space for them, it just references them.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And once you do that, once you do a full import, A) it should go faster because it's not actually

01:07:58 ◼   ► copying 260 gigs of memory, it's just making a bunch of hard links and writing a bunch

01:08:02 ◼   ► of metadata or whatever.

01:08:03 ◼   ► B, after you do that, you've got your iPhoto library still completely unmodified.

01:08:08 ◼   ► You could launch iPhoto and it would still just be right there.

01:08:10 ◼   ► And you've got your photos library, which in the beginning is an exact copy of your

01:08:14 ◼   ► iPhoto library, with some other caveats I'll get to in a little bit.

01:08:19 ◼   ► And then if you start using photos, you will slowly diverge.

01:08:23 ◼   ► The photos library will start changing, you'll add new photos to it, you'll make modifications.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Those modifications won't be reflected in the iPhoto library.

01:08:29 ◼   ► If I was to go back in time and modify a picture from three years ago, I would get a private

01:08:34 ◼   ► copy.

01:08:35 ◼   ► It's copy on write.

01:08:36 ◼   ► I would get a private copy in the photos library.

01:08:38 ◼   ► So the way this is done, the fact that I don't have to double my disk space, that I can start

01:08:42 ◼   ► from where I left off in iPhotos, and that I could essentially bail at any time, just

01:08:47 ◼   ► sort of export the photos that I imported into the photos app after the transfer process,

01:08:54 ◼   ► and then throw away the photos library, and then just reimport those into iPhoto if I

01:08:57 ◼   ► wanted to go back.

01:08:58 ◼   ► What Casey doesn't have to deal with, but what I have to deal with is the idea that

01:09:04 ◼   ► you know, iPhoto is gone, iPhoto is dead.

01:09:06 ◼   ► I used iPhoto since its introduction as my way to deal with photos with a couple of brief

01:09:10 ◼   ► side trips into Aperture when it could read your iPhoto library and stuff.

01:09:13 ◼   ► And I looked at Lightroom and stuff like that.

01:09:15 ◼   ► But I have an investment in this program and metadata and everything, and if it's dead,

01:09:21 ◼   ► I need to get on the thing that is going to replace it, and sooner is better than later.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I have a lot of problems with live photo. It's just that it is really on its last leg

01:09:30 ◼   ► So I was hoping that photos would solve these problems for me. So I did the import

01:09:34 ◼   ► It was a little bit weird because what it initially does it wants to make a new photos library

01:09:39 ◼   ► And it wants to make it on my main disk and that's no good because this is on the MacBook Air

01:09:43 ◼   ► It's got a tiny little SSD in it

01:09:45 ◼   ► So I had to dissuade it from you know

01:09:48 ◼   ► I had to make it open a new library delete the little library that it made and then I had to make the

01:09:53 ◼   ► The second library like you launch with the option key down and pick a different library

01:09:56 ◼   ► I had to make that the quote-unquote system library because if you don't do that

01:09:59 ◼   ► Then all of your photo stream stuff will only go into the system library

01:10:03 ◼   ► So for a little while I have like my external library on the external drive

01:10:06 ◼   ► But the system library was that new little empty one. That's where all the streams are going. So that was a little bit confusing

01:10:10 ◼   ► I'm not confusing like I could figure out what was going on

01:10:15 ◼   ► But I figure if someone else was using this they would be confused about why they're not getting anyway

01:10:19 ◼   ► Maybe they would want to have multiple drives

01:10:20 ◼   ► But bottom line is I could get to the point where I wanted it

01:10:23 ◼   ► I imported my library which took a really really really long time way longer than I thought it should take if since it's not actually

01:10:29 ◼   ► copying the data

01:10:30 ◼   ► And during it it's like while you wait why not take a tour of the photos application

01:10:35 ◼   ► And there's no way in hell. I was clicking that thing to take a tour of the most like

01:10:38 ◼   ► I'm not touching this computer until it's done importing. I don't want to do anything to perturb the program

01:10:43 ◼   ► I don't know what kind of slideshow

01:10:45 ◼   ► introduction thing it's gonna do but that is the last thing I want is that to crash the app lines in the middle of my

01:10:50 ◼   ► Import so did you open any other windows?

01:10:52 ◼   ► Just let it sit there and it took just a tremendous amount of time. This is not uploading to iCloud forget about I go

01:10:58 ◼   ► This is just merely like importing my photos library. It's like

01:11:00 ◼   ► 67,000 photos or something

01:11:04 ◼   ► 260 270 gigs there are some videos mixed in there, but not too many

01:11:08 ◼   ► So I let it do all that and then the next thing was like if there's settings that the market was talking about you can say

01:11:15 ◼   ► Do you want me to keep all the photos on your Mac? Yes

01:11:18 ◼   ► I definitely did because it's the whole point like I want them to be there

01:11:20 ◼   ► I want to get backed up and all that other stuff

01:11:22 ◼   ► The interesting thing that was the time machine I think was smart enough

01:11:27 ◼   ► Not to like time machine knows that they're hard links it understands them or whatever

01:11:31 ◼   ► So it is not as if time machines like oh my goodness. I have 260 new gigs to back up

01:11:35 ◼   ► No, it doesn't it doesn't have it

01:11:36 ◼   ► Just you know that that the use space on my external disk did not grow up go up by that much

01:11:41 ◼   ► It just had like its little database in the metadata and stuff and then the photos as they were so the time machine backup caught

01:11:46 ◼   ► up pretty quickly

01:11:48 ◼   ► and

01:11:49 ◼   ► I

01:11:51 ◼   ► Turned on the iCloud thing of course I had to buy more iCloud storage

01:11:53 ◼   ► And we'll talk about storage pricing a little bit. I did that I bought enough storage to fit all my stuff

01:11:57 ◼   ► Which is I bought 500 gigs of storage

01:11:59 ◼   ► And then I let it upload and the uploading

01:12:02 ◼   ► It's a weird like it shows a progress bar on the preferences window

01:12:06 ◼   ► But every time I launched the preferences window the progress bar started from zero kind of and the other part of it

01:12:10 ◼   ► that wasn't in the preferences window said uploading,

01:12:15 ◼   ► you know, X thousand photos.

01:12:16 ◼   ► In the beginning it said uploading 67,000 photos

01:12:18 ◼   ► and the number would go down

01:12:19 ◼   ► and then it would say uploading 50,000,

01:12:21 ◼   ► uploading 49,000.

01:12:22 ◼   ► Like that's a weird way to show progress.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Like I understand what it's getting at,

01:12:25 ◼   ► but what's wrong with a progress bar guys?

01:12:27 ◼   ► Like, you know, if you didn't know that it started at 60,000

01:12:30 ◼   ► you wouldn't know you were half done

01:12:31 ◼   ► when it said uploading 30,000.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Anyway, it took like two days to upload all my photos.

01:12:36 ◼   ► It was not using all of my connection

01:12:37 ◼   ► This has been a big complaint with people who have smaller upload pipes that the photos app will just use as much upload

01:12:45 ◼   ► Bandwidth as you have and like if you saturate your upload bandwidth, it makes your experience doing anything else really miserable

01:12:51 ◼   ► There is an option in preferences to say stop uploading

01:12:55 ◼   ► It's like pause for a day is the only button

01:12:57 ◼   ► But like that's not a great option if it's noon and the thing is destroying your upload pipe and you do pause for a day

01:13:02 ◼   ► All you've done is scheduled for it to destroy your upload pipe tomorrow at noon

01:13:07 ◼   ► Again, I didn't have that problem because it was not using my entire upload pipe not even close and I got like 35 megabits up

01:13:12 ◼   ► And it was maybe using two three or four. I don't know. I guess I could figure it out took about 48 hours to go

01:13:17 ◼   ► It was not even sometimes it went really fast. Sometimes it went slow

01:13:20 ◼   ► I've heard from people who have looked at the traffic going over the wire that it was uploading directly to Amazon s3

01:13:26 ◼   ► Like not going to Apple servers. It was going to you know, something s3 Amazon comm we're just fine

01:13:33 ◼   ► I don't care where the hell it is. Like as long as it's uploaded somewhere, you know

01:13:36 ◼   ► I don't need to know the implementation details

01:13:37 ◼   ► for people wondering, I've heard reports of that,

01:13:40 ◼   ► but I didn't check it myself.

01:13:42 ◼   ► After it uploaded everything, I had to look at like,

01:13:45 ◼   ► what has it done to my iPhoto library?

01:13:47 ◼   ► 'Cause I put a lot of time into my photo library.

01:13:50 ◼   ► I talked about my rating system and my key wording.

01:13:52 ◼   ► I keyword for people in my family.

01:13:55 ◼   ► I do ratings as a series of filtering.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Three stars or higher are the good ones.

01:13:59 ◼   ► Anything below that is bad.

01:14:00 ◼   ► One star usually should be deleted.

01:14:02 ◼   ► Very few four and five stars.

01:14:05 ◼   ► I'm not surprised at all.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Me neither.

01:14:07 ◼   ► It's a threshold.

01:14:08 ◼   ► It's exactly the same thing I do for iTunes.

01:14:10 ◼   ► It's more of a thresholding system.

01:14:12 ◼   ► I want to say, what are the good photos?

01:14:14 ◼   ► If, for example, we're making a calendar, which we do,

01:14:16 ◼   ► like we use the websites that let you make a calendar

01:14:18 ◼   ► with pictures of your family on it,

01:14:20 ◼   ► I immediately go to pictures from last year, three stars

01:14:23 ◼   ► or more.

01:14:24 ◼   ► Those are the good ones.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Those are the ones even worth looking at.

01:14:27 ◼   ► And then the one star is periodically,

01:14:28 ◼   ► when I get space tight, I just go,

01:14:30 ◼   ► let me see all the one stars, and I'll delete them.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Photos doesn't do that.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Photos has favorite or not favorite.

01:14:37 ◼   ► A favorite uses a star, not favorite has no star.

01:14:40 ◼   ► So it is a very binary filtering system,

01:14:42 ◼   ► which is kind of in keeping with how I was using it.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Like the three star was the threshold.

01:14:46 ◼   ► So how the hell does it import my library

01:14:48 ◼   ► where they were all rated?

01:14:49 ◼   ► Well, it still has keywords

01:14:51 ◼   ► and it makes a one star keyword,

01:14:53 ◼   ► two, it says like one space star, two space star.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Those are keywords.

01:14:58 ◼   ► And it puts keywords on all my one, two,

01:15:00 ◼   ► and three star rated ones, which is fine

01:15:01 ◼   ► because then it still lets me sort by one, two, and three star,

01:15:04 ◼   ► but now I have to make a choice.

01:15:05 ◼   ► I could continue rating them one, two, and three star

01:15:08 ◼   ► by using the one, two, three, four, and five star keywords,

01:15:11 ◼   ► or I could just abandon that

01:15:12 ◼   ► and just go with the favoriting system.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And I've decided that I'm just going to go forward

01:15:16 ◼   ► and use it the favoriting system.

01:15:17 ◼   ► So what I basically did was took anything

01:15:19 ◼   ► that is three, four, or five stars

01:15:20 ◼   ► and put an official photos fave on it.

01:15:23 ◼   ► And that's what I'm gonna do going forward.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Now I'll leave the keyword ratings on all the other ones,

01:15:28 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna try to maintain my one through five,

01:15:32 ◼   ► which means I won't really have a good way to,

01:15:34 ◼   ► I guess I could still label the one star ones

01:15:36 ◼   ► one star if I wanted, but I don't know.

01:15:38 ◼   ► - You should just delete them.

01:15:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, that's what, basically I do.

01:15:41 ◼   ► Like there aren't really many one stars in there.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Like one star means like it's out of focus or something

01:15:45 ◼   ► and they eventually get deleted.

01:15:46 ◼   ► So there's not really many of them hanging around.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Like when I go through, I basically delete all the one star

01:15:49 ◼   ► or I decide to upgrade one of the two.

01:15:51 ◼   ► I think, well, it's not that bad or whatever.

01:15:54 ◼   ► So the import went okay.

01:15:55 ◼   ► Some of my smart albums didn't quite work

01:15:58 ◼   ► because some of the smart albums,

01:15:59 ◼   ► like it doesn't have, you know, to do like nested logic,

01:16:02 ◼   ► like where you can make a smart thing

01:16:04 ◼   ► and then have another thing references another smart thing.

01:16:06 ◼   ► It doesn't have like nested Boolean logic.

01:16:07 ◼   ► It just has one level of logic.

01:16:08 ◼   ► And some of my smart albums didn't work

01:16:10 ◼   ► because the logic required a feature

01:16:12 ◼   ► that only existed in iPhoto.

01:16:13 ◼   ► So I lost a little bit, but my manual albums worked

01:16:16 ◼   ► and my simple smart albums were ported over correctly.

01:16:18 ◼   ► The faces were more or less ported over the keywords.

01:16:21 ◼   ► So that went okay.

01:16:24 ◼   ► The upload went okay.

01:16:25 ◼   ► But here's where the rubber really hits the road

01:16:27 ◼   ► this app. The problem I had with iPhoto was that it basically came down to at this point

01:16:34 ◼   ► performance, in all aspects of performance. The app took a year and a day to launch. You'd

01:16:40 ◼   ► launch it, this is also an all SSD, keep in mind this is a very fast external SSD connected

01:16:44 ◼   ► with FireWire 800 or an internal SSD, didn't matter. Took forever to launch. You'd sit

01:16:50 ◼   ► there and see a spinner for a long time, might as well just go away and come back later.

01:16:54 ◼   ► it launched, pretty much everything you did in the app was slow.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Scrolling was slow.

01:16:59 ◼   ► The thing I most commonly do is basically you plug in a camera, import photos.

01:17:03 ◼   ► After I import photos, I want to go through them and rate them and keyword them or whatever,

01:17:08 ◼   ► basically just to look at them.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Go to full screen mode, because I figure that'll be easier on the application.

01:17:12 ◼   ► Full screen, not to worry about anything else.

01:17:14 ◼   ► Use the arrow key to advance from one photo to the next.

01:17:17 ◼   ► Use keyboard shortcuts to rate them and stuff like that.

01:17:20 ◼   ► workflow right arrow command R to rotate command 2 command 3 command 4 to rate right arrow

01:17:28 ◼   ► was just so incredibly sluggish like super slow going into full screen mode was slow

01:17:33 ◼   ► hitting the right arrow to go to the next photo seemed like it took a seven second delay

01:17:36 ◼   ► sometimes it's like what are you even doing sometimes the photo would come in it was still

01:17:40 ◼   ► blurry and then it would put in the full res super slow so I'm like everyone says photos

01:17:43 ◼   ► is great it should be way faster key wording like I do command 1 command 2 command 3 or

01:17:49 ◼   ► You can only keyword if you weren't in full screen mode and you had the keyword palette

01:17:52 ◼   ► available then you do single keystrokes of like F for family and like you'd select a

01:17:56 ◼   ► bunch of photos, you'd click one, shift click on another, hit F for family and like three

01:18:01 ◼   ► seconds later the UI would catch up with you like oh you shift clicked okay I'll select

01:18:04 ◼   ► this range oh I'll make a little keyword thing flash on the screen.

01:18:06 ◼   ► It just felt like molasses.

01:18:09 ◼   ► So this is what I was hoping photos aside from all the cloud stuff I was hoping that

01:18:12 ◼   ► it would help the workflow of like the things that I do.

01:18:15 ◼   ► photos, go through them, rate them, keyword them, or just go through them and browse.

01:18:21 ◼   ► And I guess scrolling, but I do a little bit less scrolling.

01:18:23 ◼   ► So I set everything up in Photos, and one of the first things I did was grab the little

01:18:28 ◼   ► scroll bar and scroll up and down.

01:18:30 ◼   ► That works alright.

01:18:31 ◼   ► 67,000 photos, you don't expect it to be that fast.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Keep in mind this is a 2011 MacBook Air with 4GB of RAM, so that probably doesn't help

01:18:38 ◼   ► much.

01:18:39 ◼   ► Oh my gosh, yeah.

01:18:40 ◼   ► But it did alright.

01:18:42 ◼   ► I'm willing to give it a pass for things that I think a lack of RAM explains.

01:18:49 ◼   ► So I imported some photos into it, and the importing was a little bit weird and confusing

01:18:54 ◼   ► and the UI is not great, I had to bring the sidebar back to see my camera but it mounted

01:18:58 ◼   ► as a no-name card thing and whatever.

01:19:01 ◼   ► It was difficult for me to find some stuff, it's a very sparse UI but it's a 1.0.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Imported all the photos, go into full screen mode, and then just start trying to do right

01:19:10 ◼   ► arrow, rate, keyboard, right arrow, rate, keyword.

01:19:13 ◼   ► Still slow, and I don't understand why it's so slow.

01:19:15 ◼   ► I'm just, there's one photo on the screen, I'm gonna hit the right arrow key, I want

01:19:19 ◼   ► you to show me the next photo.

01:19:20 ◼   ► I don't need you to keep every single one of my photos in memory, I don't think the

01:19:24 ◼   ► lack of RAM is making that slow, but something is, and I just want it to be snappy.

01:19:29 ◼   ► I assume that it is snappy if you have 10 photos or 1000 or even 10,000.

01:19:33 ◼   ► I don't know where the threshold is, where this app just starts to fall down, but whatever

01:19:39 ◼   ► Whatever it is, I'm past it.

01:19:40 ◼   ► So is it worse than iPhoto?

01:19:41 ◼   ► No, it's not worse than iPhoto in terms of performance.

01:19:43 ◼   ► It's probably a little bit better.

01:19:45 ◼   ► Launching still takes a long time.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Doing all those actions that I was describing took a long time.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Maybe keywording is actually slower in photos than it was.

01:19:53 ◼   ► Click one photo, shift click onto the next one, label for my kid's name or whatever.

01:19:58 ◼   ► Maybe that's actually slower in photos, but it's close-ish.

01:20:01 ◼   ► So I did not get the big performance boost that I was hoping.

01:20:04 ◼   ► Again, this is a 1.0.

01:20:08 ◼   ► Maybe it's a RAM limit.

01:20:09 ◼   ► Maybe I should actually try it on my Mac that has 16 gigs of RAM and see if it does any

01:20:12 ◼   ► better.

01:20:14 ◼   ► So that aspect of it is kind of a wash.

01:20:16 ◼   ► But I feel relatively okay with the safety of the things.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Again because my entire iPhoto library is still there, still being backed up.

01:20:22 ◼   ► And my photos library is slowly diverging from it.

01:20:24 ◼   ► I have for now not been deleting the pictures off my camera when I import them.

01:20:29 ◼   ► So I have like yet another backup.

01:20:30 ◼   ► Like if I have a catastrophe I still have my old iPhoto library and I can just reimport

01:20:34 ◼   ► everything from my camera.

01:20:35 ◼   ► At a certain point my card on my camera will fill up so I'll have to revisit that.

01:20:39 ◼   ► But I'd say so far so okay for the experience of using it.

01:20:46 ◼   ► And the cloud sync stuff, that's the other part that people are complaining about.

01:20:49 ◼   ► So this is my wife's computer.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Hers is the photo computer.

01:20:52 ◼   ► That brings up the next big problem, which is like they haven't really solved the photo

01:20:55 ◼   ► problem because the larger problem is we have photos that belong to our family.

01:20:59 ◼   ► Like the 67,000 photos, they're not my photos.

01:21:02 ◼   ► They're not my wife's photos.

01:21:03 ◼   ► They're not my children's photos.

01:21:04 ◼   ► They're our photos collectively.

01:21:06 ◼   ► We have a family set up in the Apple iCloud family thing or whatever.

01:21:11 ◼   ► But to do this photos thing, we have to pick an Apple ID.

01:21:14 ◼   ► So it's my wife's Apple ID.

01:21:17 ◼   ► She's signed into her Apple ID on her phone, obviously, because it's her phone, and this

01:21:20 ◼   ► is her computer and she's logged into her account.

01:21:23 ◼   ► So when we import this thing and turn on the iCloud photo library, the 500 gigs of iCloud

01:21:26 ◼   ► storage, that's her storage, right?

01:21:28 ◼   ► Which means on her phone, she has access to all 67,000 photos, which is amazing, right?

01:21:32 ◼   ► Obviously, they're not all on the phone.

01:21:33 ◼   ► It does all the storage stuff, yada, yada.

01:21:35 ◼   ► But it's pretty amazing that you can, in theory, scroll back to the early 2000s or the 90s

01:21:40 ◼   ► and just tap on a photo and eventually it will download and you can see it.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Love it.

01:21:44 ◼   ► Great, right?

01:21:45 ◼   ► I can't see any of those photos in my phone, even though they're just as much my photos

01:21:47 ◼   ► as her photos, right?

01:21:50 ◼   ► There's no way to sort of share the entire photo library with the family.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Now there is a family section where anything you put in that album is shared with anybody

01:21:57 ◼   ► in your family group, but there's no way to automatically share the entire library.

01:22:01 ◼   ► You have to manually add things, stuff to the family collection.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Or of course you can make a shared photo stream and sign up individual people to it

01:22:06 ◼   ► But there's no way to basically say this is the family's photo library

01:22:10 ◼   ► I want everyone to see it Apple has not solved that problem yet or tackled it

01:22:14 ◼   ► They've only made it so that you can share subsets of photos manually with different groups of people, which is great

01:22:17 ◼   ► It's good that you can do that. We use that all the time to share pictures with relatives, but it's not like I'm going to

01:22:22 ◼   ► Manually drag every every single photo in my library into the family thing and then manually drag every new thing

01:22:27 ◼   ► Into there because then I would have because I have my own iPhone library on my Mac which has nothing in it

01:22:33 ◼   ► and on my phone, so if I take a picture with my phone,

01:22:36 ◼   ► it shows up in my photo library, not in the family one,

01:22:38 ◼   ► and it's just not working the way

01:22:41 ◼   ► we want it to work conceptually.

01:22:42 ◼   ► I want there to be one big pool of photos

01:22:43 ◼   ► that belong to the family,

01:22:44 ◼   ► and maybe separate pools for individuals.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Eventually the kids will want their own separate pools

01:22:48 ◼   ► and won't want to mingle with ours,

01:22:49 ◼   ► but for my wife and I,

01:22:51 ◼   ► I think all our photos share one big pool.

01:22:53 ◼   ► So it's kind of a shame that I don't have access

01:22:56 ◼   ► to all of our family's photos on my phone, and she does,

01:22:59 ◼   ► but the flip side of that is she has access

01:23:01 ◼   ► to all of our photos on her phone,

01:23:02 ◼   ► which means when she brings up the photo picker

01:23:04 ◼   ► in any iOS application, 10 to 15 second wait

01:23:08 ◼   ► before the photo picker comes up.

01:23:10 ◼   ► So it's not just, you know, I tried it in Apple mail,

01:23:13 ◼   ► I tried it in Twitterrific,

01:23:14 ◼   ► it is not a per application thing.

01:23:15 ◼   ► You bring up that photo picker, time it, 10 to 15 seconds.

01:23:19 ◼   ► And every time, second time, it takes just as long.

01:23:22 ◼   ► Once it comes up, it's a little slow,

01:23:24 ◼   ► but you know, again, it's amazing

01:23:25 ◼   ► that you have access to 67,000 photos,

01:23:27 ◼   ► but it's, you know, we are at the limits

01:23:31 ◼   ► of what this thing can handle.

01:23:32 ◼   ► It's kind of amazing that it does it and it doesn't crash.

01:23:34 ◼   ► But on the other hand, it's like,

01:23:35 ◼   ► if you're going to do this, I don't know what you can do.

01:23:38 ◼   ► Maybe just like only let the photo picker see the last four

01:23:42 ◼   ► or five years and then have it like,

01:23:43 ◼   ► I don't know what you have to do

01:23:45 ◼   ► to make that picker come up sooner.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Like I understand the problems inherent in this,

01:23:49 ◼   ► but it is not a great experience.

01:23:52 ◼   ► And the final thing I want to say

01:23:52 ◼   ► about the cloud syncing here is that Marco was talking about,

01:23:55 ◼   ► well, you know, get another Mac,

01:23:56 ◼   ► have that do your cloud sync and have it keep all your

01:23:57 ◼   ► photos within and your main smaller Mac,

01:24:01 ◼   ► have it just optimize storage and not keep all of them there.

01:24:04 ◼   ► Just as RAID is not a backup, iCloud PhotoSync

01:24:07 ◼   ► is not a backup, because if you do something bad,

01:24:10 ◼   ► those changes will rapidly cascade to all your servers

01:24:13 ◼   ► that are doing this Cloud Sync, and it

01:24:15 ◼   ► will dutifully delete every single photo you deleted

01:24:17 ◼   ► from-- so if you accidentally delete a huge amount of photos,

01:24:19 ◼   ► it will delete them everywhere.

01:24:21 ◼   ► It will delete them off your phone.

01:24:22 ◼   ► It will delete them off your Mac Mac Mini.

01:24:23 ◼   ► It will delete-- probably before you can race into the other room

01:24:25 ◼   ► and yank the ethernet cable out of the back of that Mac Mini,

01:24:28 ◼   ► it will have deleted a hell of a lot of those pictures.

01:24:30 ◼   ► So iCloud Photos Sync is not a backup.

01:24:33 ◼   ► You need actual backups.

01:24:35 ◼   ► And not only do you need actual backups,

01:24:37 ◼   ► you need backups like time machine style backups

01:24:39 ◼   ► that don't just do disk clones.

01:24:41 ◼   ► You need disk clones too, and cloud backups.

01:24:43 ◼   ► But you need something that keeps older versions of things.

01:24:46 ◼   ► Because it is very easy to have a catastrophic cloud

01:24:49 ◼   ► thing that goes wrong that causes a runaway--

01:24:51 ◼   ► that's the type of bug you can have--

01:24:53 ◼   ► causes a runaway deletion of thousands of photos.

01:24:55 ◼   ► And that deletion will sync, if Apple does its job well,

01:24:59 ◼   ► will sync to all your devices everywhere

01:25:01 ◼   ► before you can do anything about it.

01:25:03 ◼   ► And if you don't notice, and like 15 minutes later,

01:25:06 ◼   ► your backup systems run automatically backup everything,

01:25:08 ◼   ► and your backups aren't like incremental date type backups,

01:25:12 ◼   ► like if you have the SuperDuper clone,

01:25:14 ◼   ► the SuperDuper clone will delete,

01:25:15 ◼   ► well, it will clone your drive as it exists now

01:25:17 ◼   ► with the deleted photos, and those photos will be gone.

01:25:19 ◼   ► So in this cloud connected world,

01:25:21 ◼   ► you have to be very aware of what kind of data loss changes

01:25:25 ◼   ► will automatically be pushed out

01:25:27 ◼   ► to all of my quote unquote backups.

01:25:29 ◼   ► So I'm very leery of that and I'm really trying to keep that in mind when I have a

01:25:37 ◼   ► backup strategy.

01:25:38 ◼   ► And I have to admit, part of my backup strategy is I'm never going to delete my iPhoto library.

01:25:42 ◼   ► Like it will always be there, I'll probably never modify those things.

01:25:45 ◼   ► At the very least, all those photos will be as safe as they could possibly be sitting

01:25:49 ◼   ► on HFS+ where we have no idea what the contents of the files actually are.

01:25:54 ◼   ► And speaking of the hard links, I try desperately not to think about the implementation of hard

01:25:57 ◼   ► hard links, which I want to know if they can go read my old S10 articles about it.

01:26:03 ◼   ► Hard links were grafted onto HFS+, and the way it does it is it puts a special file in

01:26:08 ◼   ► a special hidden directory, and there's only one of those directories.

01:26:11 ◼   ► And you may not know much about file systems, but sort of gut feeling, if you make a single

01:26:17 ◼   ► directory and you just keep putting files in there at a certain point, hundreds of files,

01:26:22 ◼   ► thousands of files, how many files can you put in a single directory?

01:26:24 ◼   ► nested in subfolders but just flat in a single directory before the file system gets cranky.

01:26:29 ◼   ► Yes, it uses B trees or B+ trees or whatever.

01:26:31 ◼   ► Wait, that's what it's doing?

01:26:33 ◼   ► There's a hidden directory, and in that hidden directory is a single file for every hard

01:26:36 ◼   ► link on your disk.

01:26:37 ◼   ► No wonder your Photos app is so much slower than mine.

01:26:40 ◼   ► I mean, just think about Time Machine.

01:26:41 ◼   ► I mean, Time Machine is just full of hard links, but, you know, Photos, yeah.

01:26:45 ◼   ► So I think there's your answer, because I have 27, let me see, yeah, I have 26,000 photos.

01:26:52 ◼   ► So about half to a third of what you have.

01:26:55 ◼   ► But my performance is amazing.

01:26:57 ◼   ► It flies.

01:26:58 ◼   ► I didn't do an iPhoto import at all because I was using Lightroom before.

01:27:03 ◼   ► So I literally copied my directories, the photos, I copied them over to the NAS to back

01:27:11 ◼   ► it up to kind of like save it.

01:27:13 ◼   ► And then I just copied them all into the new photos app and deleted the originals.

01:27:18 ◼   ► So it has things arranged the way it wants them arranged.

01:27:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, I mean, this has it arranged,

01:27:23 ◼   ► it's not, once you make the hard links, it's fine.

01:27:25 ◼   ► I'm just like, I'm leery of having that many files

01:27:27 ◼   ► in a single directory.

01:27:28 ◼   ► I don't think the fact that I have a bunch of hard links

01:27:30 ◼   ► is causing my performance problems,

01:27:31 ◼   ► 'cause once you make them, like,

01:27:32 ◼   ► reading one file is the same as reading any other file.

01:27:34 ◼   ► This is just the sort of linking one set of data

01:27:38 ◼   ► to another, it's on a per file basis,

01:27:40 ◼   ► especially since, like, it's not like it's reading the files

01:27:42 ◼   ► off disk when I'm, like, scrolling through them or whatever.

01:27:44 ◼   ► It's, you know, thumbnails or whatever crazy database

01:27:46 ◼   ► it's doing, like, once it's up and running,

01:27:48 ◼   ► I think the difference we're experiencing

01:27:49 ◼   ► has to do with two things.

01:27:50 ◼   ► One, your computer is way faster than mine,

01:27:52 ◼   ► and two, you have way fewer photos.

01:27:54 ◼   ► So it would be kind of a fun experiment

01:27:56 ◼   ► to triple the size of your library

01:27:59 ◼   ► and see how that performs.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Like, I really think there is a threshold,

01:28:03 ◼   ► 'cause with iPhoto there definitely was.

01:28:04 ◼   ► iPhoto was fine for many, many years,

01:28:06 ◼   ► and once I started pushing up into maybe

01:28:08 ◼   ► it was around the mid-40s, maybe into the 50s,

01:28:11 ◼   ► it started to be like, "Uncle, that's it."

01:28:15 ◼   ► It still did the job, but every operation,

01:28:18 ◼   ► And like, I'm more picky about this than most people.

01:28:21 ◼   ► Like I don't wanna wait for the computer.

01:28:23 ◼   ► - It's real.

01:28:24 ◼   ► - I've told the story many times of like

01:28:26 ◼   ► when I had my original Mac and the Mac Plus

01:28:28 ◼   ► and the Mac SE 30 and stuff,

01:28:30 ◼   ► that I would use the computer

01:28:31 ◼   ► and you would do things like double click a folder

01:28:33 ◼   ► in the finder and it would do this animation

01:28:35 ◼   ► where it would show like the outline of the new window

01:28:37 ◼   ► that's going to open expanding into place, right?

01:28:40 ◼   ► Same thing with dialogue boxes and stuff like that.

01:28:43 ◼   ► I would have the cursor waiting on the section of the screen

01:28:47 ◼   ► where I knew that the close box or the OK button

01:28:51 ◼   ► or the next folder I wanted was eventually going to appear

01:28:53 ◼   ► when the thing finished redrawing it.

01:28:55 ◼   ► And I'd know how much of it needed to be drawn

01:28:57 ◼   ► before I could click and have the click register

01:28:58 ◼   ► into the window that's about to appear.

01:29:00 ◼   ► Like, it just felt like I was just waiting forever

01:29:04 ◼   ► for everything to happen.

01:29:05 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, yeah, draw your stuff, okay,

01:29:08 ◼   ► drawing, drawing, drawing, just enough of it is drawn,

01:29:10 ◼   ► now I can click, move the mouse to the next position, okay.

01:29:12 ◼   ► Waiting for the dialogue,

01:29:13 ◼   ► like that is my experience of using the computer

01:29:15 ◼   ► and it hasn't changed much since I've gotten older,

01:29:17 ◼   ► If anything, I've gotten more cranky about it.

01:29:19 ◼   ► And like with iPhone, it's like,

01:29:21 ◼   ► you're showing a series of pictures.

01:29:23 ◼   ► You have phenomenal computing power

01:29:25 ◼   ► compared to the computers I used as a kid.

01:29:28 ◼   ► I just want to hit the right arrow key

01:29:29 ◼   ► and I want you to show me the next picture.

01:29:31 ◼   ► Immediately at full res, as soon as I hit the key,

01:29:34 ◼   ► I don't think I'm asking for a lot.

01:29:35 ◼   ► It's full screen mode.

01:29:37 ◼   ► There's only one picture on the screen at once.

01:29:38 ◼   ► There is not a giant grid of 60,000 photos.

01:29:41 ◼   ► It is full screen, one picture, hit the next arrow,

01:29:44 ◼   ► show me the next picture.

01:29:45 ◼   ► Can I add a rating?

01:29:46 ◼   ► Can I add a keyword?

01:29:47 ◼   ► Do that immediately.

01:29:49 ◼   ► Give me some visual feedback that it has been done.

01:29:52 ◼   ► I don't, maybe write it to your metadata database

01:29:54 ◼   ► in an async thread.

01:29:55 ◼   ► Like I don't, whatever it is that's making it slow.

01:29:58 ◼   ► It's making me sad.

01:29:59 ◼   ► I have some hope that, you know,

01:30:01 ◼   ► computer hardware will get faster,

01:30:04 ◼   ► faster than my photo library grows.

01:30:06 ◼   ► And you know, as the kids get older,

01:30:07 ◼   ► you take fewer pictures of them and everything,

01:30:09 ◼   ► but I'm never gonna delete many more of these pictures.

01:30:12 ◼   ► Like most of the one stars are gone.

01:30:14 ◼   ► So I'm thinking by the time these kids go to college,

01:30:17 ◼   ► I'm gonna have a six digit number of photos

01:30:19 ◼   ► and I really hope Apple software can keep up with it.

01:30:21 ◼   ► - And by the way, this is a perfect example

01:30:24 ◼   ► of a very, very common task that people do

01:30:28 ◼   ► on their computers that will kill a laptop's battery.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Because this is using tons of resources.

01:30:34 ◼   ► You're reading tons of little files off the disk.

01:30:37 ◼   ► - The face recognition thing running in the background,

01:30:40 ◼   ► that alone will destroy it.

01:30:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, and not to mention, you know,

01:30:42 ◼   ► all like the resizing operations of thousands of photos.

01:30:45 ◼   ► I mean, that's a big computational job.

01:30:48 ◼   ► And if you're browsing through photos

01:30:49 ◼   ► and applying some light adjustments here and there,

01:30:52 ◼   ► even just what you said, just browsing them full size.

01:30:54 ◼   ► - Well, importing is a lot.

01:30:55 ◼   ► Like I feel like there's a lot of upfront work,

01:30:58 ◼   ► especially with the import.

01:30:59 ◼   ► Like that's why I gave it a chance,

01:31:00 ◼   ► like let it settle down.

01:31:01 ◼   ► It did the import, let it do all the faces,

01:31:03 ◼   ► let it make all its thumbnails.

01:31:04 ◼   ► Like I feel like you should be able to get the library

01:31:06 ◼   ► into a steady state where like I'm not adding any photos.

01:31:09 ◼   ► I have not added any photos to this library for a week.

01:31:11 ◼   ► the app has been running,

01:31:12 ◼   ► like it's the only app running on the system,

01:31:14 ◼   ► is anything in it fast?

01:31:16 ◼   ► And the answer is no, it's not, it's just not.

01:31:18 ◼   ► Forget about adding new photos.

01:31:19 ◼   ► Obviously every time you add new photos,

01:31:20 ◼   ► it's gotta parse them all, it's gotta make the thumbnails,

01:31:22 ◼   ► it's gotta read the metadata, put it into its database,

01:31:25 ◼   ► it's gotta do the face recognition.

01:31:26 ◼   ► Like I understand that's always gonna be grinding away

01:31:28 ◼   ► when it's doing that, things are gonna be slow.

01:31:29 ◼   ► But I feel like in a steady state,

01:31:32 ◼   ► simple operations should be fast,

01:31:33 ◼   ► and they're just not with a library my size

01:31:35 ◼   ► on my particular hardware,

01:31:36 ◼   ► which is a 2011 MacBook Air with four gigs of RAM.

01:31:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean that could be a big part of the problem.

01:31:41 ◼   ► I mean, that's not a great answer to that question,

01:31:44 ◼   ► but that might be a big part of the problem.

01:31:46 ◼   ► - I mean, I hope that the SSDs would be a thing like that.

01:31:48 ◼   ► That's why I bought an external SSD.

01:31:50 ◼   ► It's, you know, these are fast SSDs.

01:31:52 ◼   ► The internal one is not great, but like, you know,

01:31:55 ◼   ► forget about it on a spinning disc,

01:31:56 ◼   ► I would just, it'd be useless.

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01:34:02 ◼   ► - Boom.

01:34:03 ◼   ► - This is a little bit of homework

01:34:05 ◼   ► one of us did. But would you like to tell us, that person, about pricing of photos as

01:34:15 ◼   ► compared to Dropbox and whatever else that we looked at?

01:34:20 ◼   ► So this is another thing about Apple's photo solution. They, you know, if you want to use

01:34:24 ◼   ► their cloud backup, and you don't have to by the way, you can just have them on your

01:34:27 ◼   ► local disk and it works like iPhoto. You can do that, you don't have to pay any extra money

01:34:30 ◼   ► for it or whatever, which is great. I'm glad they gave that option, but part of the reason

01:34:33 ◼   ► I was doing it is I wanted to do the online sync option and to do that you have to buy

01:34:37 ◼   ► storage and so you get 5 gigs free with an iCloud with an Apple ID, right?

01:34:41 ◼   ► You can get 20 gigs for a dollar a month, 200 gigs for $4 a month, 500 gigs for $10

01:34:48 ◼   ► a month and a terabyte for $20 a month.

01:34:50 ◼   ► And those prices are vastly improved over what they used to be but unfortunately the

01:34:54 ◼   ► rest of the competition is way better.

01:34:57 ◼   ► So Dropbox is about half the price.

01:34:59 ◼   ► It'll give you a terabyte for 10 bucks instead of half a terabyte for 10 bucks like Apple

01:35:03 ◼   ► will.

01:35:04 ◼   ► Dropbox only gives you two gigs for free, but you can refer people to get a little bit

01:35:07 ◼   ► there or whatever.

01:35:08 ◼   ► Amazon Cloud Drive gives you unlimited photos and five gigabytes of video for $12 a year.

01:35:16 ◼   ► So forget about a month.

01:35:18 ◼   ► Unlimited photos, $12 a year plus five gigs of videos.

01:35:21 ◼   ► You can have unlimited everything, unlimited photos and unlimited video for $60 a year.

01:35:25 ◼   ► I guess it's kind of good when S3 is your thing and you don't have to pay Amazon for

01:35:28 ◼   ► S3 because you are Amazon.

01:35:29 ◼   ► - Well, to be fair, they probably aren't operating

01:35:31 ◼   ► at a massive profit margin.

01:35:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the Amazon way, but whatever.

01:35:34 ◼   ► Amazon Cloud Drive, ridiculously less expensive.

01:35:38 ◼   ► Microsoft OneDrive gives you 15 gigs for free,

01:35:40 ◼   ► which is three times more than Apple gives you for free.

01:35:42 ◼   ► 100 gigs for $2 a month, 200 gigs for $4 a month,

01:35:46 ◼   ► which exactly matches Apple.

01:35:47 ◼   ► One terabyte for $7 a month, so $7 versus 20.

01:35:51 ◼   ► So their pricing is roundabout, you know,

01:35:54 ◼   ► in the 200 gig range, it's the same as Apple's,

01:35:56 ◼   ► but when you go to one terabyte,

01:35:57 ◼   ► $7 a month versus $20 a month.

01:36:00 ◼   ► Microsoft is definitely running there.

01:36:01 ◼   ► And Casey just put in information for Picture Life,

01:36:03 ◼   ► which is 25 gigs for $5 a month,

01:36:05 ◼   ► 100 gigs for $10 a month, and unlimited for 15.

01:36:08 ◼   ► So again, another unlimited thing.

01:36:10 ◼   ► Amazon gives you unlimited, way cheaper than Apple.

01:36:12 ◼   ► Picture Life gives you unlimited, also cheaper than Apple.

01:36:14 ◼   ► Now, what are you getting with the Apple thing?

01:36:17 ◼   ► Like Marco said, integration with all your iOS devices.

01:36:20 ◼   ► It's the only solution that I'm aware of

01:36:23 ◼   ► that has complete integration

01:36:25 ◼   ► with the actual Apple photo library.

01:36:27 ◼   ► Lots of these things have their own iOS app or whatever.

01:36:29 ◼   ► And I guess with sharing extensions,

01:36:32 ◼   ► you can get to the stuff.

01:36:33 ◼   ► But so many iOS apps bring up a picture picker.

01:36:36 ◼   ► They let you pick from your photo library,

01:36:38 ◼   ► which is the Apple photo library.

01:36:40 ◼   ► So you are paying for that integration,

01:36:42 ◼   ► but Apple storage pricing is not that great.

01:36:45 ◼   ► - Well, but I would say,

01:36:47 ◼   ► based on what it is, where it is integrated,

01:36:51 ◼   ► how it's integrated, how it's even presented to you,

01:36:53 ◼   ► I would say you're not gonna be seeing

01:36:55 ◼   ► a lot of people doing comparison shopping.

01:36:57 ◼   ► You're not gonna be seeing like--

01:36:58 ◼   ► - No, that's true.

01:36:59 ◼   ► I just like that.

01:37:00 ◼   ► I think it's the ones that really,

01:37:01 ◼   ► I think are hurt Apple's competitiveness,

01:37:04 ◼   ► especially after they just changed the prices.

01:37:06 ◼   ► The ones that hurt are the unlimited ones,

01:37:07 ◼   ► because that's like a different ball game.

01:37:09 ◼   ► It's like, we're no longer haggling over the price.