ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► What was the other one you liked about the watch, Sean?

00:00:02 ◼   ► It can't be the one.

00:00:04 ◼   ► I like that because it sounds like, you know, the one as in the person you're going to marry.

00:00:07 ◼   ► This watch can't be the one.

00:00:08 ◼   ► Not like the Matrix?

00:00:09 ◼   ► No, not that one.

00:00:11 ◼   ► That would work too.

00:00:13 ◼   ► The way you get the watch to be the one is by telling it that it's not the one.

00:00:18 ◼   ► I understood that reference.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Boom.

00:00:21 ◼   ► We have a not a tremendous amount of follow-up today.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Everyone look at the time.

00:00:28 ◼   ► And I think we should start by genuinely saying that we got a lot of really, really lovely

00:00:35 ◼   ► and wonderful feedback with regard to our Twitter conversation that happened in the

00:00:40 ◼   ► after show in the last show.

00:00:43 ◼   ► And I hope I don't sound sarcastic because I'm really being genuine.

00:00:46 ◼   ► We got a ton of really great feedback.

00:00:49 ◼   ► And even the feedback that I saw that was constructively criticizing us was constructive.

00:00:57 ◼   ► And I was appreciative of that.

00:00:59 ◼   ► We had a lot of drive-by tweet thanks and tweet love, and that was extremely refreshing

00:01:06 ◼   ► given that we spoke a lot about drive-by tweet hate.

00:01:10 ◼   ► So I just want to thank everyone that you guys were really kind to us last week.

00:01:13 ◼   ► And I'm pretty sure I speak for the other two to say it's very kind of you and we really

00:01:18 ◼   ► appreciate it.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Yep.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Cool.

00:01:21 ◼   ► We also got a lot of feedback about how many external displays modern

00:01:27 ◼   ► Macs can drive and I don't we got this from several different people, but I think just moments ago

00:01:35 ◼   ► We got a pretty good summary. John. Do you want to go over that?

00:01:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I think this was the most popular correction from last week

00:01:41 ◼   ► Everybody just wanted to come in and say that they have a macbook pro and that they have more than two external displays on it

00:01:48 ◼   ► Some people are sending us pictures

00:01:51 ◼   ► of their setup. Some people were confused about which MacBook Pro we were talking about in the

00:01:55 ◼   ► last feedback, talking about the most recent models, but even among those people they sent

00:02:00 ◼   ► here, "I bought the most recent model and here it is with more than two external displays.

00:02:05 ◼   ► What's up with that?" And so of course if you go to the MacBook Pro specs page at apple.com,

00:02:11 ◼   ► for both the 13-inch and 15-inch it talks about their external display capabilities and it says,

00:02:17 ◼   ► up to two external displays, up to two external displays for both of them. So what's the deal here?

00:02:22 ◼   ► And Nathan Anderson is not the only person who sent in this information, but it happened to come

00:02:27 ◼   ► in late breaking and it was a reasonable summary. The deal, as far as I can tell, based on all the

00:02:33 ◼   ► people who sent in both their pictures and their information, is that if you have a 13-inch MacBook

00:02:38 ◼   ► Pro, you can only do two external displays. If you have a 15-inch, you can do more than two if you

00:02:45 ◼   ► if you have the discrete graphics with the NVIDIA chip,

00:02:48 ◼   ► and only two if you have the integrated graphics.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And there's some strangeness about past models

00:02:57 ◼   ► where they could or couldn't do integrated.

00:02:58 ◼   ► So it seems like the Apple's page

00:03:01 ◼   ► is giving a conservative answer.

00:03:03 ◼   ► If you read that and think you can only

00:03:05 ◼   ► use two external displays and you happen

00:03:06 ◼   ► to get one with discrete graphics

00:03:07 ◼   ► and you can do more than two, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

00:03:09 ◼   ► But you'll never be disappointed because the up

00:03:12 ◼   ► to two external displays is true for all the models.

00:03:14 ◼   ► And if you could do more, I mean,

00:03:15 ◼   ► maybe it's not even officially supported according to Apple,

00:03:17 ◼   ► but it does work.

00:03:19 ◼   ► So there we go.

00:03:20 ◼   ► For all the people who wrote in,

00:03:22 ◼   ► you know you're not crazy,

00:03:23 ◼   ► your particular model may be able to do more than two,

00:03:26 ◼   ► but it is apparently a variation

00:03:28 ◼   ► that Apple does not consider important enough

00:03:31 ◼   ► to delineate on their customer-facing spec page.

00:03:35 ◼   ► - Also, let me just point out how amazing this is,

00:03:37 ◼   ► because it was only a few years ago

00:03:40 ◼   ► when if you wanted to have more than one external display,

00:03:43 ◼   ► so more than two displays total, you had to have a Mac Pro.

00:03:47 ◼   ► And usually with more than one video card.

00:03:49 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:03:50 ◼   ► So this is pretty amazing that ever since,

00:03:53 ◼   ► I believe the introduction of Thunderbolt,

00:03:54 ◼   ► I don't think the mini DisplayPort line

00:03:57 ◼   ► could daisy chain them, I don't know if that's correct,

00:03:59 ◼   ► but it's only very, very recent since the era of Thunderbolt

00:04:03 ◼   ► on all the MacBook and MacBook Pros,

00:04:05 ◼   ► that you can have more than one external monitor hooked up,

00:04:08 ◼   ► and that's pretty amazing.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is progress, man, it's good.

00:04:12 ◼   ► They definitely have the external monitor high ground.

00:04:14 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - We have some people at work who are trying to do

00:04:19 ◼   ► like six external monitors and they're reaching,

00:04:23 ◼   ► I'm not sure which limits they're reaching,

00:04:24 ◼   ► but basically many of the people who sit around me

00:04:26 ◼   ► have reached the limit of what their machines can do

00:04:30 ◼   ► output wise either physically speaking or for a GPU wise

00:04:34 ◼   ► and it is comical to see where the limits are.

00:04:36 ◼   ► This is a little tiny machine with this huge array

00:04:39 ◼   ► of displays on this crazy arm that puts them in a big grid

00:04:42 ◼   ► five or six things and what's attached to that giant rat's nest? A tiny little laptop.

00:04:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I think the actual limit of displays there is like sanity, desk space

00:04:53 ◼   ► slash arm capacity. You know, like, I mean, external monitors are kind of like cats. Like,

00:04:59 ◼   ► you know, most people should have between zero and one and, you know, it's really, really

00:05:04 ◼   ► easy once you have more than one to be like, "Well, what's one more? I could, you know,

00:05:08 ◼   ► all this extra fur in my house. Like there's some people like no number of monitors is

00:05:14 ◼   ► enough for them because they haven't adopted a system like yours, Jon, where like they

00:05:18 ◼   ► have some way to manage lots of windows on whatever space they're given. No, they need

00:05:23 ◼   ► more space and they always need more space and it's like, oh, I have two, why not three?

00:05:28 ◼   ► Oh, monitors are pretty cheap these days. Why not add two more and let's get a double

00:05:32 ◼   ► decker arm. Now we can have eight and it's just never enough. Then all of a sudden you

00:05:36 ◼   ► have 15 cats.

00:05:37 ◼   ► - It's like the physical incarnation of spaces.

00:05:39 ◼   ► They're like, I'm gonna have one monitor for iTunes,

00:05:41 ◼   ► one monitor for Safari, one monitor for a mail app,

00:05:44 ◼   ► one monitor for a text editor that will be in portrait,

00:05:46 ◼   ► but I'll only ever have one document open at once

00:05:47 ◼   ► because I use VI and relaunch it every time

00:05:49 ◼   ► I want to edit a file,

00:05:50 ◼   ► and one monitor open for like my fun window.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And like they'll pretend windows don't exist.

00:05:55 ◼   ► And if I need to have another window open,

00:05:57 ◼   ► I need another monitor now

00:05:58 ◼   ► because everything is full screen.

00:05:59 ◼   ► These are probably ex-Windows users.

00:06:01 ◼   ► - Oh God.

00:06:02 ◼   ► All I know is I kind of, I want a rig.

00:06:06 ◼   ► I would never do it, but I want a rig that's like six monitors, a wall of monitors in front

00:06:10 ◼   ► of me.

00:06:11 ◼   ► I would get lost in it, but god, it sounds so awesome.

00:06:14 ◼   ► You'll never find your cursor, let me tell you.

00:06:15 ◼   ► People have that at work, you can never find your cursor.

00:06:17 ◼   ► You'd have to turn on the giant cursor mode that my mom uses.

00:06:21 ◼   ► What was the setup that the really nerdy guy in Grandma's Boy used?

00:06:25 ◼   ► He had like a chair that was reclined and he had like two or three monitors pitched

00:06:31 ◼   ► down at him or something like that.

00:06:32 ◼   ► God, I'm going to have to watch that movie again.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Did you ever see that?

00:06:34 ◼   ► sounds like a back problem.

00:06:36 ◼   ► - Well, trust me, it was like this whole pod thing

00:06:39 ◼   ► that the dude had.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Have you seen "Grandma's Boy," John?

00:06:41 ◼   ► Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:06:42 ◼   ► - I do not know what you're talking about.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Although I've seen people,

00:06:45 ◼   ► I can picture the arrangement you're describing

00:06:48 ◼   ► because I've seen pictures on the internet

00:06:49 ◼   ► of similar arrangements of people that are reclining

00:06:52 ◼   ► and having monitors suspended above them

00:06:54 ◼   ► or the reverse where the monitors are below them

00:06:56 ◼   ► and they're leaning face down.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Yeah, all not good, ergonomically speaking, probably.

00:07:01 ◼   ► - Does this count as a reference that I made

00:07:03 ◼   ► that you didn't get?

00:07:04 ◼   ► I think so.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Admittedly, it was a very shaky and poor reference, but...

00:07:07 ◼   ► Well, I mean, is it something that you had an expectation that I would get?

00:07:11 ◼   ► Is this a staple of pop culture?

00:07:13 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Grandma's Boy?

00:07:15 ◼   ► Are you kidding?

00:07:16 ◼   ► It's a wonderful movie about computer geeks.

00:07:17 ◼   ► All right, if you say so.

00:07:19 ◼   ► I'm going to count that as a win in the Casey column.

00:07:21 ◼   ► Anyway, we should probably move on.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And speaking of movies and video, Jon, why don't you tell us about your whole scrubber

00:07:28 ◼   ► conundrum?

00:07:29 ◼   ► Yeah, we talked about that last week with the streaming television boxes and my big

00:07:33 ◼   ► complaint aside from the video not playing at all is that any of these streaming television

00:07:39 ◼   ► solutions, none of them do moving around in the content in a reliable manner.

00:07:45 ◼   ► And I compared it to YouTube on a web browser, which sometimes is weird and flaky, and the

00:07:49 ◼   ► HTML5 player may or may not be playing nicely with your browser, but there's a little scrubber

00:07:53 ◼   ► thing that you can, you know, the little circular handle on the timeline, and you can move to

00:07:56 ◼   ► different positions, and the video moves around eventually.

00:08:01 ◼   ► in these streaming television boxes, very frequently attempting to do anything with

00:08:05 ◼   ► your position other than play at 1x speed not only doesn't work and results in a series

00:08:10 ◼   ► of spinners or blank screens but can very often lose your place.

00:08:14 ◼   ► And then you're chucked back to the beginning.

00:08:16 ◼   ► This happens, by the way, the worst case scenario is this is your children are on the couch

00:08:19 ◼   ► watching a movie.

00:08:20 ◼   ► They're 30 or 40 minutes in.

00:08:22 ◼   ► One of them accidentally sits on part of the remote and because you have too many Bluetooth

00:08:25 ◼   ► remotes or because they happen to get unlucky and it was still pointing at the TV, it starts

00:08:30 ◼   ► too fast forward or rewind or do something, do one of those actions and that throws the

00:08:35 ◼   ► thing into a tizzy and then you try to hit pause and hit play again but maybe it has

00:08:39 ◼   ► gone too far forward or back or something and it just loses its place.

00:08:43 ◼   ► And now your kid is angry because they want the movie to resume playing where it was but

00:08:47 ◼   ► you're back at the beginning of the movie and you can't get to where they were even

00:08:51 ◼   ► if you know the exact timestamp because hey how would you get there?

00:08:53 ◼   ► You would have to move the scrubber essentially to that position and you have no way of doing

00:08:58 ◼   ► that because fast forward doesn't work, it just, you know, there's no jump, there's no

00:09:01 ◼   ► whatever.

00:09:02 ◼   ► So this little item in the follow-up was me just to emphasize that like I'm not asking

00:09:07 ◼   ► for, "let me smoothly scan through while seeing the video go by really fast," like the equivalent

00:09:13 ◼   ► of video smart speed.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Like I understand that there's something transcoding down there, it's not like you can just magically

00:09:20 ◼   ► slide forward and backward in time while seeing the video flash before your eyes at variable

00:09:25 ◼   ► rates of speed when the video is actually being transcoded on the fly by some weak CPU

00:09:29 ◼   ► in a NAS in your basement or something, right?

00:09:32 ◼   ► The minimum, all I'm asking for is, one, don't lose my place no matter what I do, and two,

00:09:38 ◼   ► give me the ability to, in sort of QuickTime player parlance or YouTube parlance, move

00:09:43 ◼   ► the scrubber to an arbitrary position and start playing from there.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I don't have to see anything when that happens.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Make the screen entirely black.

00:09:50 ◼   ► In fact, I prefer that.

00:09:51 ◼   ► hate it when I can't move the little scrubbery thing, both on the desktop and on a streaming

00:09:55 ◼   ► TV box, where it says, "No, no, no, you can't move that thing.

00:09:59 ◼   ► You have to wait for me to load some more thumbnails or stream some content or transcode

00:10:03 ◼   ► things.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Just stop.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Stop with the video entirely.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I'm going to move the scrubber to a position.

00:10:08 ◼   ► It's going to change the timestamp in the corner.

00:10:11 ◼   ► Change the timestamp by all means as I move the scrubber around.

00:10:14 ◼   ► When I'm done, I say, "Now, try to start playing from 30 minutes and 42 seconds."

00:10:18 ◼   ► Now you can resume whatever it is you were doing.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And people wrote in telling me "oh you don't understand about B-frames and H.264 and blah

00:10:25 ◼   ► blah blah" I understand that this is also difficult, but this I think is the minimum

00:10:30 ◼   ► bar for any device that plays video.

00:10:33 ◼   ► Don't lose my place and give me some way to start at an arbitrary location.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Anything above and beyond that that you want to do, fine.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Do whatever it is you have to do to make that happen.

00:10:42 ◼   ► Pre-scan all the movies to find offsets, find the closest offset to the thing that I picked

00:10:47 ◼   ► and try to play from there and only show the picture once you get into it. Like, whatever

00:10:50 ◼   ► you gotta do, do it. But I just want to emphasize that I'm not asking for the magic ability

00:10:55 ◼   ► to see the video fly past my eyes at fast and slow speeds, because I understand that's

00:10:59 ◼   ► very difficult. Of course, that would be nice, and I'm hoping that will happen someday, but

00:11:02 ◼   ► we're very far from that now.

00:11:04 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:11:05 ◼   ► fair enough. All right. And how about the Koenigsegg and the odd model name that none

00:11:13 ◼   ► of us could figure out how you pronounce it?

00:11:15 ◼   ► Yeah, apparently it's it's like we mentioned that it was like the ratio one horsepower to one kilogram or whatever

00:11:20 ◼   ► But the name o ne colon numeral one is pronounced one to one. It's not one one, although I like one one better

00:11:27 ◼   ► But anyway, if people want to know if you are considering buying what is it like a 2.4 million three million dollar?

00:11:33 ◼   ► Hyper car it's called the one-to-one not the one one that just sounds like

00:11:38 ◼   ► Going to visit a psychiatrist office or something like that. Let's have a one-to-one. That's your that's your one-on-one

00:11:44 ◼   ► Do you have one-on-ones at work?

00:11:45 ◼   ► I don't think we call them that, but yes, I do have a meeting with--

00:11:49 ◼   ► Check the parking lot.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Oh, God, Marco.

00:11:51 ◼   ► It's so hard to be retired, isn't it?

00:11:53 ◼   ► But yeah, we have meetings with our immediate supervisors,

00:11:57 ◼   ► which we call personal development something, PDP,

00:12:01 ◼   ► personal development planning, something like that.

00:12:03 ◼   ► That's worse.

00:12:04 ◼   ► That sounds awful.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Oh, it's sufficiently corporate speaky,

00:12:07 ◼   ► which is funny because our company is all of 70 people or something like that.

00:12:10 ◼   ► But yep, that's a thing.

00:12:12 ◼   ► Yikes.

00:12:13 ◼   ► Alright power PC max and x86 hardware compatibility. Yeah one person wrote with a story that I thought was funny

00:12:20 ◼   ► we were talking about the rarity of these Macs that had x86 hardware in them and they were indeed rare and

00:12:25 ◼   ► Martin wrote in to tell us about his experience with these things

00:12:29 ◼   ► He had a set of the I forget which model it was but it's the the the power max 6100 case

00:12:35 ◼   ► It was the first Mac to use this case you guys look at the picture that I linked there in the show notes

00:12:39 ◼   ► It was the pizza box Mac

00:12:41 ◼   ► very wide, very low optical drive in the middle, floppy drive on the right, and a hard drive

00:12:48 ◼   ► on the left.

00:12:51 ◼   ► And they had a bunch of people who were PC users essentially using these because they

00:12:55 ◼   ► sold a version of this with a different model number that had like a 486 inside it or maybe

00:13:01 ◼   ► it was a Pentium or anyway some x86 chip inside it.

00:13:05 ◼   ► And they had a problem when these PC users would use these machines and I mean I don't

00:13:09 ◼   ► I don't know if you read this feedback.

00:13:10 ◼   ► You probably did and you spoiled the surprise.

00:13:12 ◼   ► But if you haven't read the feedback, Marco, perhaps,

00:13:14 ◼   ► take a look at the picture and tell me,

00:13:16 ◼   ► this show notes, hey, maybe Marco

00:13:19 ◼   ► hasn't seen the show notes either.

00:13:21 ◼   ► Looking at this picture,

00:13:22 ◼   ► what problem might PC users have with this Mac?

00:13:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, as soon as I saw the picture,

00:13:26 ◼   ► I didn't actually make it to the rest of the feedback

00:13:29 ◼   ► to see why the picture was being cited.

00:13:32 ◼   ► And the moment I saw the picture,

00:13:33 ◼   ► I knew exactly where this feedback was going.

00:13:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I don't know if people remember this,

00:13:38 ◼   ► it was just so long ago, the big thing about the Mac platform was that it had auto-inject

00:13:45 ◼   ► and auto-eject floppy drives hardware-wise.

00:13:48 ◼   ► So auto-inject meant that when you pushed the floppy disk in, at a certain point the

00:13:52 ◼   ► mechanism would suck it out of your hand and seed it.

00:13:56 ◼   ► And auto-eject means that the ejection was initiated by the drive itself.

00:14:03 ◼   ► And in the operating system...

00:14:05 ◼   ► And the ejection would be triggered by the wonderfully intuitive to PC user's activity

00:14:09 ◼   ► of dragging the disk that had all the important files on it to the trash.

00:14:14 ◼   ► That was just a shortcut.

00:14:15 ◼   ► You could also select the disk and select eject from the file menu, which was totally

00:14:18 ◼   ► intuitive.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Anyway, yeah, so you would initiate the unmount essentially from the OS.

00:14:24 ◼   ► And unlike PCs where you could eject the disk at any time by pressing a button next to the

00:14:29 ◼   ► thing and, you know, the OS might complain if you did it when the light was blinking,

00:14:33 ◼   ► you may have hosed your data and all sorts of other things that relied on the user to

00:14:36 ◼   ► sort of know when it's safe to eject the disk.

00:14:39 ◼   ► The Mac operating system always took control over mounted media and you weren't involved

00:14:44 ◼   ► in the process of ejecting the disk from a hardware perspective.

00:14:46 ◼   ► From a software perspective, you unmounted the disk and the act of unmounting it also

00:14:50 ◼   ► ejected it because the mechanisms all had the ability to essentially spit the disk back

00:14:53 ◼   ► out at you.

00:14:54 ◼   ► So when PC users used this Mac, they would see the floppy drive, they would stick their

00:15:00 ◼   ► disk in and maybe they did or didn't notice the auto-inject, it might have been gone by

00:15:04 ◼   ► then I don't know, anyway, and they'd use their thing blah blah blah, alright, and when

00:15:07 ◼   ► they were done with their disk, they would do what all PC users do is I guess look at

00:15:11 ◼   ► the drive to see if there's any blinking lights near it, if there's no blinking lights, press

00:15:15 ◼   ► the button to eject the disk.

00:15:18 ◼   ► Unfortunately on this pizza box mac, the button that was in the lower right corner below the

00:15:22 ◼   ► floppy drive was not a disk eject button, there was no a disk eject button other than

00:15:26 ◼   ► the little tiny hole that you can see there where you stick a paperclip to get it out

00:15:29 ◼   ► when the thing freezes.

00:15:30 ◼   ► It was the power button to the entire machine.

00:15:32 ◼   ► So everybody, when they were done

00:15:34 ◼   ► and wanted to eject their floppy disk,

00:15:35 ◼   ► would press the power button in the machine

00:15:36 ◼   ► and turn the entire machine off.

00:15:38 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:15:39 ◼   ► - Which must have been hilarious, but still.

00:15:41 ◼   ► - In PC users at the time, Defense, which I was one,

00:15:45 ◼   ► if you look at this machine,

00:15:47 ◼   ► the CD-ROM drive immediately adjacent to this

00:15:50 ◼   ► has a physical eject button.

00:15:52 ◼   ► So it looks like two drives side by side

00:15:55 ◼   ► with an eject button.

00:15:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, if you're coming from the paradigm,

00:16:00 ◼   ► it does make sense, although, I mean,

00:16:01 ◼   ► there is a giant power symbol on the--

00:16:03 ◼   ► - No, no, paradigm, separately from the paradigm,

00:16:05 ◼   ► this is like a consistency design flaw,

00:16:08 ◼   ► which is that there is an eject button right next to it

00:16:11 ◼   ► in the spot you'd expect, and so it looks like,

00:16:14 ◼   ► here's the hole for disks, here's the hole for floppies,

00:16:17 ◼   ► here's the eject button for disks,

00:16:18 ◼   ► here's the eject button for floppies.

00:16:20 ◼   ► - They're very differently sized buttons,

00:16:22 ◼   ► and like I said, one of them does have a power button.

00:16:24 ◼   ► I believe if you press the optical drive button,

00:16:27 ◼   ► it wouldn't actually eject because I believe the operating system had control over it.

00:16:32 ◼   ► This hardware eject button on the optical drive is on my Mac Pro too. You just have

00:16:36 ◼   ► to slide open the little guillotine doors and shove your little finger in there and

00:16:39 ◼   ► you can find them.

00:16:40 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:16:41 ◼   ► Yeah, and they also don't work until the OS ejects it, but still. You're saying this

00:16:48 ◼   ► is a problem with PC users. I'm saying this is a very confusing design for everybody.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Well, it wasn't confusing for Mac users. It's a paradigm thing. It's like, do you

00:16:56 ◼   ► Do you think the operating system has control over floppy disks or do you think the user

00:17:01 ◼   ► has control over it?

00:17:02 ◼   ► And the right answer is to have the OS have control over it, but if you come from the

00:17:05 ◼   ► other thing where you think the user has control over it, you're looking for a button and you're

00:17:09 ◼   ► going to hit whatever button you find.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And that's the only button that's remotely near there, so that's the one you're going

00:17:13 ◼   ► to hit and then you're going to be sad.

00:17:15 ◼   ► I think the right answer is floppy disks were always awful and we're so glad we're past

00:17:19 ◼   ► them.

00:17:20 ◼   ► You know, anything with, even thumb drives now I feel like, we have the same exact problem,

00:17:25 ◼   ► we haven't gotten rid of it.

00:17:26 ◼   ► stick a thumb drive into a computer and it mounts on desktop and they drag files back

00:17:29 ◼   ► and forth and they just want to yank the thumb drive out. And if you do that on a Mac, it

00:17:33 ◼   ► yells at you, it says "whoa whoa whoa whoa, that was not properly ejected, blah blah blah,

00:17:36 ◼   ► stay at blah blah blah, please plug back in, blah blah blah." But by then it's too late.

00:17:40 ◼   ► I do it with my cameras because some of my cameras can be unplugged at any time and other

00:17:45 ◼   ► cameras have to be unmounted from iPhoto or whatever before they can be unplugged. And

00:17:49 ◼   ► I forget which is which. And some importing programs will automatically eject the camera

00:17:54 ◼   ► logically after it's imported and some won't. So that's also another level of confusion

00:17:58 ◼   ► here.

00:17:59 ◼   ► And there's the power button on the camera. Even if you don't unplug the USB cable, what

00:18:02 ◼   ► if you just turn the power button on the camera? That will also end up effectively unmounted.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Yep, yep. Fun.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Anyway, removable media is confusing.

00:18:10 ◼   ► All right, and then the final piece of follow-up we have is an important service announcement

00:18:18 ◼   ► for listeners of the show. And I think, Jon, that you are best equipped to handle this.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I feel kind of bad talking about this. How many episodes are we in? We're over a hundred, right?

00:18:27 ◼   ► 112.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Yeah, so someone who entered ATAX, A-T-T-A-X in our feedback form as their name,

00:18:33 ◼   ► says that he'd been listening to the show and he's using the iOS podcast app on an iPhone 6,

00:18:41 ◼   ► and he says, "I have a feeling that listening to ATP and only ATP, that the podcast app jumps

00:18:46 ◼   ► around wildly within the episode. The first few times I thought it was because one edition had

00:18:50 ◼   ► finished and it had jumped to the middle of the one before that I hadn't finished.

00:18:54 ◼   ► But with the Bombshell episode, I'm certain that I heard the outro and then again discussion

00:18:58 ◼   ► about Jobs vs. Cook and then about fabbing RAM.

00:19:01 ◼   ► This leads me to suspect that there's some evil commercial breaker chapter-fu going on.

00:19:07 ◼   ► This person thought their podcast app was buggy.

00:19:10 ◼   ► And this is a reasonable conclusion, right?

00:19:13 ◼   ► If you are new, especially if you're new to the show, and I think we talked about this

00:19:16 ◼   ► on Twitter and a bunch of people replied.

00:19:19 ◼   ► So I'll spoil the secret that's not really a secret.

00:19:24 ◼   ► The format of the show is we talk about technology stuff, we have a bunch of sponsor breaks,

00:19:29 ◼   ► then a song by Jonathan Mann plays where he reads out our Twitter handles and tells you

00:19:34 ◼   ► where you can find the show notes.

00:19:35 ◼   ► And says, "Now the show is over."

00:19:37 ◼   ► Right, he says, "Now the show is over."

00:19:38 ◼   ► Didn't even mean to begin.

00:19:40 ◼   ► The whole big deal.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And after that song is over, the show continues, often for a substantial period of time.

00:19:48 ◼   ► That's what we call the after show.

00:19:51 ◼   ► I likened it in the show, it's here, to the secret menu at In-N-Out, knowing that there's

00:19:55 ◼   ► an after show.

00:19:56 ◼   ► The secret menu at In-N-Out, which by the way I've never been to, I would like to try,

00:19:59 ◼   ► but have never been to.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Really?

00:20:01 ◼   ► Yep, I've never been, I guess I've been in California, but I haven't been to one of them

00:20:04 ◼   ► when I was there.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Anyway, it's not really a secret menu.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Everybody knows about it, but if you really, really don't know about it, it's not going

00:20:11 ◼   ► to occur to you that it exists.

00:20:13 ◼   ► So if you really, really don't know about the after show, when the song says, "Now the

00:20:16 ◼   ► show is over, you know, you turn the thing off or go to the next podcast, right? You

00:20:20 ◼   ► never know that there's anything after it. I think actually that's okay. If you want

00:20:25 ◼   ► to stop listening to the show there, whether accidentally or on purpose, I think that's

00:20:29 ◼   ► fine because the way we structure the show is we try to talk about all the things we're

00:20:32 ◼   ► going to talk about before the song and then after the song, we feel like we are free to

00:20:37 ◼   ► talk about whatever we want, whether that's cars, something silly that we did, but sometimes

00:20:42 ◼   ► it's also reflecting on the show we just had and talking about the same talk, it's from

00:20:47 ◼   ► a different angle and maybe in a more casual way.

00:20:50 ◼   ► That's the after show.

00:20:51 ◼   ► I was just on upgrade with Jason Snell and we were talking about the format of the show.

00:20:56 ◼   ► What distinguishes the after show from the rest of the show?

00:20:58 ◼   ► Isn't it just more of the same?

00:21:00 ◼   ► Sometimes it seems like that, but from our perspective, it's like we feel like the show

00:21:03 ◼   ► is over and now we are talking about, I don't know, like, even if we didn't record it, we

00:21:09 ◼   ► would probably have that same conversation after the show, right?

00:21:11 ◼   ► we do record it. And there's also stuff that happens after the song that we don't put in

00:21:16 ◼   ► the show, right? So there is some distinction between the after show and then the rest,

00:21:19 ◼   ► and then like the sort of stuff that's just for the live listeners. But anyway, if you

00:21:23 ◼   ► have been listening to the show for however many episodes and had no idea that after the

00:21:27 ◼   ► song we kept talking, we do. And you can feel free to listen to it if you want or not, like

00:21:31 ◼   ► whatever, right? You can listen however you want. But what I was surprised by on Twitter

00:21:36 ◼   ► was many people said they had been listening to the show for like 20 episodes before they

00:21:40 ◼   ► realized the show continued after the song. And that blows my mind, if only because like

00:21:45 ◼   ► the lazy thing to do is just like just let it keep playing, like play your next podcast

00:21:49 ◼   ► on your list rather than hit stop and manually delete the podcast or something like if you

00:21:52 ◼   ► just let it play, the song will end and we will continue talking. So anyway, we're gonna

00:21:57 ◼   ► do that again today. We've been doing this since the advent of the song, I think. There's

00:22:03 ◼   ► the show, there's the song, and there's the after show. And that is the podcast that you

00:22:06 ◼   ► that you were listening to, if you didn't know that,

00:22:08 ◼   ► your mind is now opened.

00:22:10 ◼   ► - Well, and we also, I mean, we exacerbate this problem

00:22:13 ◼   ► not only by never actually saying, you know,

00:22:16 ◼   ► oh, we'll see you in the after show.

00:22:17 ◼   ► Not by pre-announcing it, but also,

00:22:20 ◼   ► one common complaint that we get,

00:22:22 ◼   ► especially from other listeners of the show

00:22:24 ◼   ► who live in my house, are that the,

00:22:29 ◼   ► there's no like sound or anything to indicate

00:22:32 ◼   ► when the actual after show ends,

00:22:34 ◼   ► when the actual episode file ends,

00:22:37 ◼   ► there is no closing sound or goodbye.

00:22:40 ◼   ► So it's very easy to miss the end of one episode

00:22:44 ◼   ► transitioning into the beginning of the next one.

00:22:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that's true, that is also true.

00:22:49 ◼   ► I don't particularly find that to be a bad thing,

00:22:52 ◼   ► but I understand people not being confused by that.

00:22:56 ◼   ► I guess what you can use is the visual marker

00:22:58 ◼   ► of looking in your playback app

00:22:59 ◼   ► when the little play head gets to the end

00:23:01 ◼   ► and the new episode starts.

00:23:02 ◼   ► There are audio markers for when we start talking about cars.

00:23:07 ◼   ► And there's an audio marker for when we mention HFS+.

00:23:09 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:23:12 ◼   ► Like the secret menu in In-N-Out, it is very similar.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Like, you learn these things either

00:23:20 ◼   ► by just listening to a lot of shows

00:23:21 ◼   ► or being in the community of people

00:23:23 ◼   ► listening to a lot of shows.

00:23:24 ◼   ► And it becomes just accepted as that's the format of the show.

00:23:27 ◼   ► But if you don't know the things,

00:23:28 ◼   ► you can still go there and order a burger and it tastes fine.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Stop listening whenever you feel like you want to stop listening.

00:23:33 ◼   ► But if you were unaware that we keep talking, we do because we can't shut up.

00:23:36 ◼   ► You know, there's two interesting pieces here to me anyway.

00:23:39 ◼   ► The first is for the three of you that listened to the show that also look at the

00:23:44 ◼   ► show notes, we clearly delineate that there is a post-show section that has

00:23:50 ◼   ► usually links and bullet items that are in no way related to anything that we have

00:23:57 ◼   ► said thus far in the episode.

00:23:58 ◼   ► And so maybe this is a lesson to everyone

00:24:01 ◼   ► that you should consider looking at the show notes

00:24:03 ◼   ► that Marco and I work on every single week.

00:24:05 ◼   ► - Mostly you.

00:24:06 ◼   ► Where can you find the show notes, Casey?

00:24:08 ◼   ► - You can find the show notes for your ATP program

00:24:11 ◼   ► at ATP.fm/episodenumber, which in this case will be 112.

00:24:16 ◼   ► So that's ATP.fm/112.

00:24:20 ◼   ► - You're supposed to sing the line from the song.

00:24:21 ◼   ► It's so informative.

00:24:23 ◼   ► - Oh. - Oh, yeah.

00:24:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can't sing,

00:24:25 ◼   ► but you can find the show notes at ATP.fm.

00:24:28 ◼   ► - That's right, that is really all you need to know.

00:24:30 ◼   ► You literally can find them there.

00:24:31 ◼   ► I believe in you.

00:24:32 ◼   ► You can find, even if you're listening to this episode

00:24:34 ◼   ► six months from now, I believe you can find them.

00:24:36 ◼   ► - Well, that's all that's there.

00:24:38 ◼   ► Like, that is the only thing on the site.

00:24:40 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:24:41 ◼   ► It's a series of shows with numbers

00:24:43 ◼   ► and show notes after them.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Or if you're listening to this in Overcast,

00:24:46 ◼   ► you can swipe up on the album art.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Another thing that people don't know,

00:24:48 ◼   ► apparently that's not--

00:24:49 ◼   ► - Also my fault, yeah.

00:24:51 ◼   ► I do blink the scroll indicator the way,

00:24:53 ◼   ► as system standard is, like when the screen shows up,

00:24:56 ◼   ► but no one knows that, and it's really hard to,

00:24:58 ◼   ► It's really easy to miss.

00:24:59 ◼   ► So yeah, that is a bad design on my part

00:25:02 ◼   ► that I haven't yet to figure out how to resolve

00:25:04 ◼   ► in a way that I don't hate.

00:25:05 ◼   ► - But once you know that it's there, like the after show,

00:25:08 ◼   ► if you're using overcast

00:25:09 ◼   ► and you're looking at the now playing screen,

00:25:11 ◼   ► the one that shows the big level meters

00:25:12 ◼   ► and the big giant album art,

00:25:13 ◼   ► just put your finger on that album art and slide upwards

00:25:16 ◼   ► and you will see the show notes.

00:25:18 ◼   ► - Yep, and then the other interesting thing to me

00:25:19 ◼   ► that I find a little bit surprising,

00:25:21 ◼   ► this is kind of building on what you were saying, John,

00:25:23 ◼   ► is we start the after show or the post show

00:25:27 ◼   ► immediately after the song ends. This isn't like a 1997 secret song at the end of the CD that you

00:25:34 ◼   ► have like a 30-minute track, 25 minutes of which is, or 20 minutes of which is silence,

00:25:38 ◼   ► and then all of a sudden you have this new song 20 minutes after you thought the CD was over.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Like it's immediate, so I agree with you that it's a little kooky to me that people would think,

00:25:49 ◼   ► "Oh, the song's over. Well, better go change my podcast and not just let it run its course."

00:25:55 ◼   ► But you know or they stop it because they don't want to hear the song for the umpteenth time

00:25:59 ◼   ► It's just as soon as the song starts like well episode over. It is a reasonable assumption. So

00:26:02 ◼   ► Anyway attacks your podcast player is almost certainly not broken. That is just the way we structure the show why we do it that way

00:26:10 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure but it is what we do and this is the show. Yeah. All right, let's talk about something

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00:29:12 ◼   ► All right, so we are recording this on Wednesday, April 8th, and this morning at about 8 o'clock

00:29:21 ◼   ► in the One True Time Zone, the watch embargo was lifted.

00:29:27 ◼   ► So we had a lot of reading to do, and I'm assuming, Marco, that you read none of it.

00:29:31 ◼   ► I actually read most of them.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Ah!

00:29:34 ◼   ► I read all the ones that I've found so far.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I really enjoyed the one at The Verge by Nili Patel, even though he hates me, because he

00:29:42 ◼   ► he really gave his and Joanna Stern's at Wall Street Journal, those I think were my two

00:29:47 ◼   ► favorites because they really gave a lot of like kind of like the everyday usage like

00:29:53 ◼   ► what like what really are the pros and the cons to the everyday usage of these things

00:29:59 ◼   ► and there's also both of them had really good videos and really good pictures so I was very

00:30:03 ◼   ► impressed by these and I don't know what do you guys think of what you've seen so far

00:30:09 ◼   ► Like does this make you, is it roughly what you expected?

00:30:12 ◼   ► Does it make you more or less excited about the watch?

00:30:14 ◼   ► 'Cause one thing I noticed was that none of them really said,

00:30:17 ◼   ► "Oh my God, this is amazing, it's a blockbuster."

00:30:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:30:21 ◼   ► - Almost all of them were like,

00:30:22 ◼   ► "Yeah, it's pretty good, it does certain things pretty well,

00:30:25 ◼   ► "certain things aren't so great,

00:30:27 ◼   ► "it's definitely a version one."

00:30:29 ◼   ► What do you think?

00:30:30 ◼   ► - You know, I read a handful of them.

00:30:32 ◼   ► I did not read Joanna Stern's.

00:30:33 ◼   ► I did read Nielle Patel's, and I agree with you, Marco,

00:30:36 ◼   ► that I thought that one was excellent.

00:30:37 ◼   ► I liked the way that he had phrased it,

00:30:41 ◼   ► or kind of covered it from the perspective

00:30:44 ◼   ► of here's what I did throughout the day.

00:30:46 ◼   ► It also really made me feel gross

00:30:47 ◼   ► that I kinda liked the scroll hijacking frames of video,

00:30:51 ◼   ► 'cause I know I should hate that,

00:30:52 ◼   ► but I actually kinda liked it.

00:30:53 ◼   ► - Oh, I hated that so much.

00:30:54 ◼   ► That's the one thing, like,

00:30:57 ◼   ► I was ranting about this to you privately earlier,

00:30:59 ◼   ► but it, oh my god, modern web design drives me crazy.

00:31:03 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:31:03 ◼   ► - I know.

00:31:04 ◼   ► - Because it used to be, back in the day,

00:31:07 ◼   ► of, I don't know, five years ago, not that long ago.

00:31:09 ◼   ► It used to be that the most distracting things

00:31:12 ◼   ► on a web page that would make it difficult

00:31:13 ◼   ► to read articles were ads all over the sides and top.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Now, the most distracting thing about web pages

00:31:20 ◼   ► is the content, because it's jammed up

00:31:22 ◼   ► with all this crazy design, scroll jacking stuff

00:31:25 ◼   ► animating in when you scroll and flying in and everything.

00:31:28 ◼   ► It's horrendous.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Oh my god, it is so hard for me to read a modern,

00:31:34 ◼   ► like one of these over-designed web pages.

00:31:36 ◼   ► It's like these companies have way, way, way too much money

00:31:41 ◼   ► and resources devoted to overproducing these articles

00:31:46 ◼   ► when the reality is like,

00:31:49 ◼   ► if you would have put Eli Patel's article

00:31:52 ◼   ► into John Gruber's layout, it would have been just as good.

00:31:56 ◼   ► It gained nothing from having this giant,

00:32:00 ◼   ► like overwrought, scrolljacking, weirdly loading,

00:32:04 ◼   ► distracting animated garbage all in and out

00:32:07 ◼   ► and throughout it.

00:32:08 ◼   ► And it wasn't just him.

00:32:09 ◼   ► I saw the other one, I saw one at Bloomberg

00:32:11 ◼   ► that was pretty good by Josh Topolski.

00:32:12 ◼   ► That one also had not as egregious

00:32:15 ◼   ► but similar over-designed issues.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I don't know why this is in style right now, but--

00:32:21 ◼   ► - I can tell you, don't you remember,

00:32:22 ◼   ► I was trying to remember the term for this,

00:32:23 ◼   ► but I think they were, were they called splash things

00:32:26 ◼   ► or entryways or gateways?

00:32:27 ◼   ► I've mercifully forgotten this term.

00:32:31 ◼   ► When you made a site, you had to have a screen

00:32:33 ◼   ► that you had to go through to get to the site first.

00:32:35 ◼   ► The splash page, designers wanted to show off

00:32:38 ◼   ► and they wanted to like establish their brand.

00:32:42 ◼   ► They were accustomed to the more linear

00:32:44 ◼   ► kind of sort of linear storytelling thing

00:32:46 ◼   ► where you have like a title sequence

00:32:48 ◼   ► in the front of your thing,

00:32:49 ◼   ► or you have a cover page for a magazine or a book

00:32:52 ◼   ► or a title page for a magazine story.

00:32:54 ◼   ► And they said, before anyone gets to my whatever,

00:32:56 ◼   ► I want to show them our awesome logo

00:32:59 ◼   ► and maybe it will be animated

00:33:00 ◼   ► and maybe it will be sparkly stars around it

00:33:02 ◼   ► have to click through the logo to get through it.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Landing page, portal page, people are saying.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Anyway, I almost don't want to remember this,

00:33:08 ◼   ► because there was an epidemic.

00:33:10 ◼   ► And there was a lot of people who

00:33:12 ◼   ► were railing against this-- Zellman was one of them--

00:33:14 ◼   ► to say, this is not how you design the web.

00:33:16 ◼   ► First of all, people can come to your content from anywhere.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Second of all, just get to the content.

00:33:20 ◼   ► And that trend went away.

00:33:21 ◼   ► And people said, you can't do that,

00:33:22 ◼   ► because it makes no sense.

00:33:23 ◼   ► People don't go through there.

00:33:24 ◼   ► If you try to redirect them to it,

00:33:25 ◼   ► just get right to the content.

00:33:27 ◼   ► And we had sort of a middle period where things calmed down.

00:33:30 ◼   ► And now, like Margo said, people are able to incorporate

00:33:34 ◼   ► all those instincts to show off their brand,

00:33:37 ◼   ► to make things that are visually stimulating,

00:33:40 ◼   ► to highlight their technical chops,

00:33:42 ◼   ► to make a sort of a movie, to turn an article

00:33:45 ◼   ► into sort of more of a movie or a slideshow

00:33:46 ◼   ► where there's transitions between paragraphs and screens.

00:33:49 ◼   ► And one picture fades into the next

00:33:52 ◼   ► and the background is slightly animated,

00:33:53 ◼   ► showing a clip that's relevant to the thing

00:33:56 ◼   ► that the text is talking about next to it.

00:33:58 ◼   ► It's the resurgence of those landing pages or splash pages

00:34:02 ◼   ► only integrated into the article.

00:34:03 ◼   ► And I gotta go one further and say,

00:34:06 ◼   ► I have a theory about why this bothers me specifically,

00:34:09 ◼   ► and it's not just the stuff that's in the Verge.

00:34:11 ◼   ► This is why we're going way off on the watch thing,

00:34:13 ◼   ► but I wanna talk about this for a while,

00:34:14 ◼   ► so much for the tangent. - That's funny.

00:34:16 ◼   ► - I'm even annoyed by web pages where

00:34:20 ◼   ► when I scroll the web page,

00:34:22 ◼   ► basically position fixed in CSS,

00:34:24 ◼   ► where anything on the page doesn't move.

00:34:26 ◼   ► You're like, well, what's the big deal about that?

00:34:27 ◼   ► What about just like a top menu bar,

00:34:28 ◼   ► like a top navigation bar that stays there when you scroll,

00:34:31 ◼   ► right, or a footer that stays there when it scrolls.

00:34:33 ◼   ► I'm even annoyed by that because it breaks my,

00:34:37 ◼   ► it breaks the mental model, my mental model of the scrollbar

00:34:40 ◼   ► because the scrollbar is on the entire webpage

00:34:42 ◼   ► content region and yet some things within that region

00:34:45 ◼   ► don't scroll, the scrollbar is not embedded

00:34:47 ◼   ► and embedded scrollbars are an evil on their own.

00:34:49 ◼   ► It doesn't really make it better if you put like an iframe

00:34:51 ◼   ► in the middle of the page where your article content is

00:34:53 ◼   ► and then put the scrollbar there.

00:34:54 ◼   ► I conceptualize a webpage and this is, you know,

00:34:57 ◼   ► an old-fashioned notion or whatever,

00:34:58 ◼   ► but especially when it's a whole bunch of text,

00:35:00 ◼   ► as a scrollable region, and when I move the scroll bar,

00:35:03 ◼   ► the entire region moves as a piece

00:35:04 ◼   ► as if it was, yes, a printed page.

00:35:06 ◼   ► I was like, well, it's not a printed page,

00:35:08 ◼   ► the web is not print, you shouldn't expect it to be like that.

00:35:10 ◼   ► I don't expect it to be like print in all the ways

00:35:11 ◼   ► that people mean when they say that,

00:35:14 ◼   ► I wanna be able to change the font size,

00:35:16 ◼   ► I wanna be able to make the window bigger

00:35:17 ◼   ► and have the text change size,

00:35:18 ◼   ► I wanna have responsive design for the images

00:35:20 ◼   ► and so on and so forth,

00:35:21 ◼   ► but when I'm reading a long form article,

00:35:24 ◼   ► however the thing is rendered,

00:35:26 ◼   ► doesn't have to be rendered exactly like it would be on paper.

00:35:28 ◼   ► Once I start scrolling it, the scrolling model is,

00:35:30 ◼   ► I move scroll bar content moves, right?

00:35:33 ◼   ► And anything that doesn't move is a violation of that model.

00:35:36 ◼   ► And it's not so bad when you got a header or a footer.

00:35:38 ◼   ► But these models are like,

00:35:39 ◼   ► all the scroll bar does is like dragon's lair.

00:35:41 ◼   ► The scroll bar just triggers the next animation sequence.

00:35:44 ◼   ► You move the scroll bar a certain amount

00:35:46 ◼   ► and nothing happens, like driving an underpowered car,

00:35:48 ◼   ► you push the gas pedal and nothing happens.

00:35:50 ◼   ► And then all of a sudden,

00:35:51 ◼   ► the giant image that was entirely in the background

00:35:53 ◼   ► that wasn't moving slides up and a new one comes in

00:35:56 ◼   ► and maybe the text moves but then the background doesn't,

00:35:58 ◼   ► but then at a certain point the background does move

00:36:00 ◼   ► and then a new background comes in,

00:36:01 ◼   ► it's like, what, and the text fades out and moves up,

00:36:04 ◼   ► it's like, the model there is,

00:36:07 ◼   ► paw at the screen until you can see more text,

00:36:09 ◼   ► and a bunch of crap's gonna go on behind there,

00:36:11 ◼   ► the scenes that you have no idea has any relation

00:36:13 ◼   ► to how you're doing, it's just like,

00:36:14 ◼   ► just make more now.

00:36:15 ◼   ► I mean, Apple does it itself on their web pages

00:36:17 ◼   ► where you try to scroll and like,

00:36:18 ◼   ► these Mac Pro animations are going,

00:36:20 ◼   ► you just wanna get down to the text spec sections,

00:36:21 ◼   ► you're not sure if you have to click the dots

00:36:23 ◼   ► or scroll more, nothing's happening,

00:36:24 ◼   ► oh wait, now it's transitioning.

00:36:26 ◼   ► This breaks my model of the way pages look.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Maybe I'm an old fogey, but I feel like

00:36:31 ◼   ► I've seen enough people interact with those pages,

00:36:32 ◼   ► they're not sure what to do either.

00:36:34 ◼   ► And it's like, oh well, I guess I did something

00:36:35 ◼   ► and new text is here, maybe I can read it.

00:36:37 ◼   ► It looks cool, it's interesting,

00:36:39 ◼   ► Apple does it in a tasteful manner,

00:36:41 ◼   ► but I just wanna scroll and I just wanna see the page move.

00:36:44 ◼   ► - You know what, even Apple's product pages though,

00:36:46 ◼   ► like when the Mac Pro came out,

00:36:47 ◼   ► that was like one of the first ones that really irritated me

00:36:50 ◼   ► 'cause it had like those sections you have to scroll between

00:36:52 ◼   ► and then wait for the scroll to logically catch up

00:36:54 ◼   ► from the JavaScript and everything,

00:36:55 ◼   ► 'cause it scrolljacked everything and then loaded it,

00:36:57 ◼   ► and it's like, makes it impossible to like,

00:36:59 ◼   ► like if you like hit command F to find something

00:37:01 ◼   ► in the page you were actually looking for,

00:37:03 ◼   ► then everything would break and then it would have to reload

00:37:05 ◼   ► and it was just, ugh.

00:37:06 ◼   ► I wish people would just keep their brands to themselves.

00:37:08 ◼   ► I mean, if these companies that do this,

00:37:11 ◼   ► I mean, you know, it's one thing for a product company

00:37:12 ◼   ► like Apple, that's, you know,

00:37:13 ◼   ► they have different motivations like Guess,

00:37:14 ◼   ► that's still not good, but for a content company

00:37:18 ◼   ► like The Verge or Bloomberg or any of these like,

00:37:22 ◼   ► like big magazines, if they spent half of the money

00:37:27 ◼   ► and resources they spent on those over designs

00:37:31 ◼   ► on actually paying writers and hiring more writers,

00:37:34 ◼   ► I think they would see a bigger return

00:37:36 ◼   ► and the content will be better.

00:37:37 ◼   ► It just seems like a tremendous waste of money

00:37:40 ◼   ► to do things that ultimately annoy your readers.

00:37:45 ◼   ► And I guess you can look at it and say,

00:37:47 ◼   ► well, that kind of looks cool, yeah,

00:37:49 ◼   ► But if you actually try to read the articles,

00:37:53 ◼   ► it's miserable, it's full of problems.

00:37:56 ◼   ► And what we had before worked great.

00:37:59 ◼   ► There was no reason to change it.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Yeah, update it with the times, change the font,

00:38:04 ◼   ► maybe tweet the layout a little bit.

00:38:06 ◼   ► That's fine, you can keep it fresh and interesting

00:38:09 ◼   ► without making it unreadable.

00:38:11 ◼   ► - You know, I agree with everything you guys said,

00:38:14 ◼   ► but I gotta tell you, I actually did kinda like

00:38:15 ◼   ► the way the Verge looked.

00:38:17 ◼   ► - That's why they do it, because it does look cool

00:38:19 ◼   ► and it is interesting.

00:38:20 ◼   ► I think you can incorporate,

00:38:21 ◼   ► I can imagine, you know,

00:38:23 ◼   ► without breaking the scrolling paradigm,

00:38:24 ◼   ► I can imagine a pretty darn flashy thing

00:38:26 ◼   ► where there's video going in and when, you know,

00:38:28 ◼   ► I'll even allow you to start playing video

00:38:31 ◼   ► when I scroll to the region

00:38:32 ◼   ► to have it do something interesting, right?

00:38:33 ◼   ► Like I'm not even opposed to that entirely

00:38:35 ◼   ► if it makes for a cool layout

00:38:36 ◼   ► because people do find it interesting.

00:38:39 ◼   ► Like it keeps your attention, like, you know,

00:38:41 ◼   ► like jingling keys in front of a toddler, like, ooh,

00:38:43 ◼   ► you know, or just like sitting a kid in front of a TV,

00:38:45 ◼   ► like, oh, things are moving, things are colorful,

00:38:47 ◼   ► things are flashy, right?

00:38:49 ◼   ► Do those people actually read the articles?

00:38:50 ◼   ► I mean, that's why at the top of the article

00:38:52 ◼   ► they had the video review, which is like, you know,

00:38:53 ◼   ► most people just watch that and feel like they're done.

00:38:55 ◼   ► But I feel like it does a disservice

00:38:58 ◼   ► to the paradigm of the web

00:39:01 ◼   ► when you break scrolling in that way.

00:39:02 ◼   ► Not because scrolling is sacred or anything,

00:39:04 ◼   ► but just simply because you're inducing

00:39:07 ◼   ► a custom one-off mismatch between the user's mental model

00:39:11 ◼   ► of how a scroll bar works and how your thing works.

00:39:13 ◼   ► And your thing is gonna be different than Bloomberg's thing,

00:39:15 ◼   ► it's gonna be different than everybody else's thing.

00:39:17 ◼   ► And it's just, that's not good UI design.

00:39:21 ◼   ► Aside from all the other stuff of being,

00:39:22 ◼   ► is it good branding, is it good for traffic,

00:39:24 ◼   ► do we A/B test these things and see that more people click

00:39:28 ◼   ► when we have this crazy scrolling thing?

00:39:30 ◼   ► Like I believe it is possible to do something

00:39:31 ◼   ► that's still a noise Marko, but that is still good UI.

00:39:34 ◼   ► That's all my argument.

00:39:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:39:36 ◼   ► You'll never not, do something flashy that annoys Marko,

00:39:39 ◼   ► but do it in a way that doesn't break people's knowledge

00:39:45 ◼   ► about how a scrolling region works in a web page

00:39:49 ◼   ► or anything like that.

00:39:49 ◼   ► - It's like breaking the back button.

00:39:51 ◼   ► It breaks the way people interact with the web.

00:39:54 ◼   ► - Or it's like if you tried to move a window,

00:39:56 ◼   ► you grab the title bar of a window and tried to move it.

00:39:58 ◼   ► I know people don't do this anymore

00:39:59 ◼   ► because they don't understand that windows move.

00:40:00 ◼   ► But if you did actually try to move a window

00:40:02 ◼   ► and instead of the window moving, it didn't move,

00:40:05 ◼   ► but then all of a sudden it did move

00:40:06 ◼   ► when you got halfway across the screen

00:40:08 ◼   ► and it did that, those things for the Mac to do it well,

00:40:11 ◼   ► but the windows 8 thing where it snaps

00:40:13 ◼   ► to fill half the screen or whatever.

00:40:14 ◼   ► If it just didn't move, you'd be like, "Wait, I clicked and I started dragging it.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Wait, no, now it's moving.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Wait, no."

00:40:20 ◼   ► That's what it's like scrolling these things.

00:40:21 ◼   ► You're like, "Wait, I thought scrolling would make the content move, but now, wait,

00:40:23 ◼   ► no, it is moving.

00:40:24 ◼   ► No, it's fading out.

00:40:25 ◼   ► No, the background is changing."

00:40:26 ◼   ► It's terrible.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:40:28 ◼   ► So let me ask you guys, let me start with Marco.

00:40:30 ◼   ► When the 5K iMac came out, I remember vividly, and I was just looking for it and I can't

00:40:36 ◼   ► find it anymore, they had a picture of a guy in a nature scene, and it was hyper-zoomed

00:40:41 ◼   ► in on the guy and as you scrolled it zoomed out to kind of indicate how big a 5k image is. Do you

00:40:47 ◼   ► know what I'm talking about? Yeah it was in the keynote and then I did they put it on the web as

00:40:51 ◼   ► well? There was I'm almost positive it was on the web. Yeah I think I recall it being on the web as

00:40:55 ◼   ► well. Okay so so let me start with Marco and then Jon I'd like to hear your two cents. Did you like

00:40:59 ◼   ► that as well or do you also find that to be distasteful? So a certain point you're not Marco

00:41:04 ◼   ► you're not showing you're not showing text you're not it's not an article at a certain point what

00:41:09 ◼   ► what you're doing is you have an interactive ad,

00:41:11 ◼   ► like a little interactive movie, right?

00:41:12 ◼   ► And there's a lot, you get a lot of leeway

00:41:14 ◼   ► if it's like a marketing site

00:41:16 ◼   ► and you're trying to demonstrate a feature.

00:41:17 ◼   ► But if I find myself trying to read many,

00:41:20 ◼   ► many paragraphs of text that are, you know,

00:41:23 ◼   ► just a linear series of paragraphs of text

00:41:25 ◼   ► from top to bottom,

00:41:26 ◼   ► especially something the length of like

00:41:27 ◼   ► that Verge Apple Watch review,

00:41:29 ◼   ► like this is not a marketing site

00:41:31 ◼   ► with two tiny paragraphs of marketing text

00:41:35 ◼   ► with a bunch of, you know,

00:41:35 ◼   ► 'cause that's fine, like infographics,

00:41:37 ◼   ► little animations of the machine spinning and exploding.

00:41:39 ◼   ► Like I give a lot of leeway for that type of thing.

00:41:42 ◼   ► But for specifically long form text articles,

00:41:47 ◼   ► you have to serve that need first.

00:41:51 ◼   ► And you have a lot less leeway, I think,

00:41:53 ◼   ► to people are less comfortable with the idea

00:41:57 ◼   ► that this doesn't work like a webpage anymore.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Now it's kind of like an interactive advertisement,

00:42:02 ◼   ► widget-y, flash, whatever thing, like a brochure, you know?

00:42:06 ◼   ► So real time follow up, a few people in the chat,

00:42:09 ◼   ► I think starting with Moyes,

00:42:11 ◼   ► have found the page that I was talking about.

00:42:14 ◼   ► And it is like a hiker explorer guy

00:42:17 ◼   ► with his arms in the air.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And as you scroll down, the image zooms way out

00:42:21 ◼   ► and you see just how big the 5K display is.

00:42:25 ◼   ► And I completely agree with what you guys are saying.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Like I understand what you're saying, I think you're right.

00:42:32 ◼   ► But there are times, and this is an example,

00:42:35 ◼   ► And I don't know, I really thought the frame by frame video

00:42:38 ◼   ► on the Verge article,

00:42:40 ◼   ► I just think they're really well done and interesting.

00:42:41 ◼   ► And I enjoy it.

00:42:43 ◼   ► And I know like conceptually in my head

00:42:45 ◼   ► that I probably shouldn't like these things,

00:42:47 ◼   ► but I don't know, I kinda like it.

00:42:48 ◼   ► - No, you should, that's why they put them there

00:42:50 ◼   ► because they're visually attractive.

00:42:51 ◼   ► But like, I like the IMAX site

00:42:53 ◼   ► because the whole point of that site

00:42:54 ◼   ► is you're gonna look at like beauty shots of this thing.

00:42:57 ◼   ► And they're emphasizing one particular part of it

00:42:58 ◼   ► and the zoom is cool

00:42:59 ◼   ► and it does emphasize the retina part

00:43:01 ◼   ► because I mean, it's a great example of like,

00:43:03 ◼   ► How do you show people the retina screen

00:43:06 ◼   ► when they're probably viewing it on a screen

00:43:07 ◼   ► that's not retina?

00:43:08 ◼   ► It's like trying to show them someone 3D television,

00:43:10 ◼   ► but they're watching it on a 2D TV.

00:43:12 ◼   ► And this is a clever solution.

00:43:13 ◼   ► We're gonna show it to you zoomed at like 1X pixels

00:43:15 ◼   ► on your screen, but then show you how much more

00:43:17 ◼   ► there actually is in a dramatic way.

00:43:19 ◼   ► And this page is mostly pictures and sort of infographics.

00:43:23 ◼   ► Right?

00:43:24 ◼   ► It's not text.

00:43:25 ◼   ► I think there's a little bit of a hitch in the middle

00:43:26 ◼   ► when you get down to the Yosemite section,

00:43:28 ◼   ► because the image stops scrolling,

00:43:29 ◼   ► but the text keeps strolling,

00:43:30 ◼   ► but then the image catches up again,

00:43:31 ◼   ► and that's a little bit janky.

00:43:32 ◼   ► but overall there's like less than a thousand words

00:43:36 ◼   ► of text on this, like it's probably less than 500 words

00:43:38 ◼   ► of text on this page.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Fine, for the Verge thing, that's thousands upon thousands

00:43:43 ◼   ► of words of text and it impairs the readability of that text

00:43:48 ◼   ► and the comfort of reading that text

00:43:49 ◼   ► and I get in the situation where I'm afraid,

00:43:51 ◼   ► did I miss a paragraph?

00:43:52 ◼   ► Did one of the animations scroll something away

00:43:55 ◼   ► and I missed an entire section because I didn't realize it

00:43:57 ◼   ► because I have no connection between my action

00:43:59 ◼   ► with either the page up or page down key

00:44:01 ◼   ► or the scroll bar or the scroll reel

00:44:02 ◼   ► or my finger swiping or whatever,

00:44:04 ◼   ► and what's happening on the screen.

00:44:05 ◼   ► It's very easy to actually miss stuff

00:44:07 ◼   ► if they start disconnecting those two things.

00:44:09 ◼   ► So time and a place for everything.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And you are not wrong to enjoy the cool animated effects.

00:44:14 ◼   ► You're not wrong to enjoy the video.

00:44:15 ◼   ► I thought the video was pretty well done as well,

00:44:17 ◼   ► but it does not serve the needs of the text very well.

00:44:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I agree with that.

00:44:22 ◼   ► - And I should point out the 5K iMac site

00:44:25 ◼   ► that you're saying is fine.

00:44:26 ◼   ► The first time I loaded it, it didn't load properly.

00:44:29 ◼   ► and it mostly loaded and I started scrolling

00:44:31 ◼   ► and then it popped in and broke.

00:44:33 ◼   ► And then the thing in the middle where it catches

00:44:35 ◼   ► and then scrolls again, that broke.

00:44:37 ◼   ► And it's like, these are assuming,

00:44:39 ◼   ► this is like the Facebook designer problem

00:44:44 ◼   ► where all these new Facebook apps are so often designed

00:44:48 ◼   ► to assume that all your friends are beautiful models

00:44:52 ◼   ► with great photography that are always on vacation

00:44:53 ◼   ► in California.

00:44:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:44:55 ◼   ► You know, and with so many of these web designs,

00:44:57 ◼   ► it's assuming that it's all gonna load immediately

00:45:01 ◼   ► and the person navigating it is going to navigate it

00:45:04 ◼   ► exactly the way you expect them to

00:45:06 ◼   ► and exactly the way you want them to

00:45:07 ◼   ► to stop and see every section.

00:45:09 ◼   ► And it's just, reality doesn't work that way.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And the web to date, like the standard web,

00:45:15 ◼   ► is very adaptable to the way reality works.

00:45:18 ◼   ► When properly designed, it falls back

00:45:22 ◼   ► so that if things haven't loaded fully,

00:45:24 ◼   ► it still works for the most part

00:45:26 ◼   ► if you do your job right.

00:45:27 ◼   ► If you wanna jump around, you can do that.

00:45:30 ◼   ► If something weirdly breaks or is transformed,

00:45:33 ◼   ► or if you're using some kind of assistive technology

00:45:35 ◼   ► to actually transform the content

00:45:36 ◼   ► and read it in different ways,

00:45:38 ◼   ► nothing breaks for the most part.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Like if you do your job right,

00:45:42 ◼   ► the web falls back gracefully.

00:45:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, graceful degradation

00:45:46 ◼   ► does not work very well in these things.

00:45:47 ◼   ► - Exactly, it doesn't work at all usually.

00:45:49 ◼   ► Usually it breaks horribly,

00:45:50 ◼   ► and you're lucky if you can even see any of the content,

00:45:53 ◼   ► especially anything that's off the first page.

00:45:55 ◼   ► - And these are more like ads because they're optimized

00:45:58 ◼   ► for the first time experience,

00:45:59 ◼   ► but if you wanna go back to that page,

00:46:01 ◼   ► like this was the Mac Pro page,

00:46:02 ◼   ► as you talked about before, as the greatest example.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Like we all went to it and saw it,

00:46:05 ◼   ► it's like, you know, whatever, ooh nah.

00:46:06 ◼   ► But then the next time you go, you're like,

00:46:08 ◼   ► I wanna get to the GPU section as fast as possible.

00:46:11 ◼   ► And you can't just take the scroll through them

00:46:13 ◼   ► and yank it down to 75% down the bottom of the page,

00:46:16 ◼   ► 'cause that's, you remember,

00:46:17 ◼   ► the GPU section was near the end.

00:46:19 ◼   ► You can't just do that, nothing happens.

00:46:20 ◼   ► You're like, oh, do I have to wait through these animations?

00:46:22 ◼   ► Do I have to click through them?

00:46:23 ◼   ► What do I have to do?

00:46:24 ◼   ► Now you're playing a game.

00:46:25 ◼   ► It's like a puzzle game on iOS where you're like,

00:46:27 ◼   ► you're like you're playing Myst where you have to figure out

00:46:29 ◼   ► what do I poke, which pixel do I hit,

00:46:31 ◼   ► what do I have to do, do I just have to wait here.

00:46:33 ◼   ► You just wanna learn about the GPU.

00:46:34 ◼   ► It is not, as soon as you start using it

00:46:36 ◼   ► as an informational thing, there is, you know,

00:46:38 ◼   ► it falls down.

00:46:40 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:46:41 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Audible.

00:46:43 ◼   ► They are the leading provider of downloadable audio books

00:46:46 ◼   ► with over 150,000 titles and virtually every genre.

00:46:50 ◼   ► And they're always adding new titles.

00:46:53 ◼   ► So if you want to listen to something, Audible has it.

00:46:56 ◼   ► Now audiobooks are great.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I mean, you can listen to them anytime, anywhere.

00:47:00 ◼   ► Audible is offering our listeners a free audiobook

00:47:03 ◼   ► along with a 30 day trial.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Go to audiblepodcast.com/atp to get your free audiobook.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Once again, audiblepodcast.com/atp.

00:47:13 ◼   ► Now, there's a book that we are supposed to

00:47:17 ◼   ► have been reading but we haven't yet.

00:47:19 ◼   ► What is that book, Jon?

00:47:20 ◼   ► - Speak for yourself, I've been reading it.

00:47:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, same here.

00:47:23 ◼   ► - Well, I read the first few percentage points of it,

00:47:26 ◼   ► but had I been listening to it in Audible,

00:47:29 ◼   ► I probably would have gotten further.

00:47:30 ◼   ► What book is this, Jon?

00:47:32 ◼   ► - That's, my God, is the title Becoming Steve Jobs?

00:47:34 ◼   ► I don't even know what the title is.

00:47:36 ◼   ► - That's right. - Yep.

00:47:37 ◼   ► It is the latest Steve Jobs biography

00:47:40 ◼   ► that has been getting a lot of press.

00:47:42 ◼   ► This is the biography that has gotten

00:47:45 ◼   ► fairly unprecedented access to Apple executives

00:47:48 ◼   ► and people who knew Steve.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Obviously, he doesn't have access to Steve himself anymore,

00:47:52 ◼   ► but it is written by someone who has had

00:47:53 ◼   ► a many years relationship with Steve as a journalist.

00:47:57 ◼   ► And the Apple executives who did talk to this author,

00:48:02 ◼   ► it's a two author book actually,

00:48:03 ◼   ► I forget who the other one is,

00:48:05 ◼   ► who did talk to him have said,

00:48:07 ◼   ► have been saying in the press that they like this biography

00:48:10 ◼   ► and that they don't like the Walter Eisend biography.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Anyone who has listened to "Hypercritical"

00:48:14 ◼   ► knows that I also don't like the Walter Eisend biography,

00:48:17 ◼   ► but I'm also slightly uncomfortable

00:48:18 ◼   ► with the idea of Apple executives endorsing a biography

00:48:23 ◼   ► as being better than some other one.

00:48:25 ◼   ► I mean, I guess it makes perfect sense.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Like if you knew Steve Jobs, like if you actually knew him

00:48:30 ◼   ► and you know he's being not well represented

00:48:32 ◼   ► by another book and a new book comes out

00:48:33 ◼   ► that does represent him well, it's natural for you to say,

00:48:37 ◼   ► this is the better one

00:48:38 ◼   ► because this is more like the Steve that I knew.

00:48:40 ◼   ► But it's like, you know, the appearance of impropriety.

00:48:43 ◼   ► Like it's a little bit weird to be endorsing a biography

00:48:46 ◼   ► because then people might think,

00:48:48 ◼   ► this is just a rah rah, Apple is great kind of book.

00:48:53 ◼   ► I'm only about 10% into this book.

00:48:54 ◼   ► I talked about it on the episode of Upgrade

00:48:56 ◼   ► I was recently on with Jason Snell.

00:48:58 ◼   ► I talked about the first 10% of the book.

00:48:59 ◼   ► He has read, Jason had read the whole book,

00:49:01 ◼   ► so he talked about the entire thing,

00:49:02 ◼   ► and we went back and forth a bit.

00:49:04 ◼   ► But I am reading it,

00:49:06 ◼   ► and regardless of whether these two guys read it,

00:49:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna talk about the book when I'm done reading it,

00:49:10 ◼   ► and I'm going to talk about it on ATP.

00:49:12 ◼   ► So the reason you should get this book in Audible

00:49:14 ◼   ► is so that you, unlike those other two guys--

00:49:16 ◼   ► - Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:49:18 ◼   ► I am like 110 pages in, thank you very much.

00:49:21 ◼   ► - All right, well. - Because I actually bought it

00:49:23 ◼   ► on dead trees.

00:49:24 ◼   ► - Oh, well, that was a mistake probably, but--

00:49:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:27 ◼   ► Look at all these iOS devices,

00:49:29 ◼   ► all these different screenshots to choose.

00:49:30 ◼   ► Anyway, whatever it takes for you to get it.

00:49:32 ◼   ► If you buy an audiobook, you can listen to it

00:49:34 ◼   ► while you walk the dog or jog or whatever,

00:49:37 ◼   ► so that you, the listener, will have done your homework.

00:49:40 ◼   ► And when the time comes, and I'm, by the way,

00:49:41 ◼   ► a very slow reader, so you have plenty of time to do this.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Just go to Audible, get the free book.

00:49:45 ◼   ► When we talk about it, you'll be prepared.

00:49:47 ◼   ► - Perfect, go to audiblepodcast.com/atp

00:49:51 ◼   ► to start this book or any other one.

00:49:53 ◼   ► Thanks a lot to Audible for sponsoring our show.

00:49:56 ◼   ► - All right, I really am like 100 pages into that book.

00:50:00 ◼   ► So don't lump me in with that Marco character

00:50:03 ◼   ► who refuses to do any homework.

00:50:04 ◼   ► - He should get the audio book.

00:50:05 ◼   ► You never read books, do you?

00:50:07 ◼   ► - No, I read it on my giant iPhone on the plane

00:50:10 ◼   ► on the way to Ireland.

00:50:12 ◼   ► and then promptly forgot to keep reading it once I got there.

00:50:15 ◼   ► I think it gets better towards the end. Jason was saying that the beginning part, like the

00:50:17 ◼   ► authors don't have much first-hand experience, they just rehash a lot of stuff, but towards

00:50:21 ◼   ► the end they get all the good interviews and new stuff comes out, so you should read it.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Or listen to it. Yeah, I'll get there.

00:50:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I have to agree with you, Marco, that the beginning, up through around about the

00:50:31 ◼   ► time when Steve got fired, I didn't really care for it. But now I feel like it's getting

00:50:39 ◼   ► a little more opinionated, which I like, and it's getting a little more interesting. But

00:50:44 ◼   ► it was hard to get going for me. So I don't blame you for kind of forgetting to pick it

00:50:49 ◼   ► back up.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Okay, so now that we started to and then aborted talking about the watch...

00:50:54 ◼   ► We tried. It almost happened. We're going to do it again.

00:50:56 ◼   ► It almost worked.

00:50:57 ◼   ► All right, well, that's the end of the show. We'll see you guys next week.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Darn it, Marco. I was just going to have to make that joke. Oh, goodness. All right, so

00:51:03 ◼   ► we should probably talk about the lifted embargo in the reviews we've read.

00:51:09 ◼   ► So I think we've all read a smattering of them. I've read some of the ones that Marco's read

00:51:13 ◼   ► I've read I've not read some of the ones that Marco's read John

00:51:15 ◼   ► I assume you've read all the things because you do homework even when we don't want you to

00:51:19 ◼   ► So the interesting thing to me about this and we were talking privately about it

00:51:24 ◼   ► the three of us with a few other people and

00:51:26 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett said to us

00:51:29 ◼   ► It seems like a lot of the reviews are kind of disappointed a little bit

00:51:35 ◼   ► Especially about performance and he had said and I agree we should have seen that coming

00:51:41 ◼   ► But it still feels a little bit surprising

00:51:43 ◼   ► That's that's to me like the the most worrisome but also unsurprising part

00:51:48 ◼   ► Because I'm you know, I'm all excited as everyone else is, you know, oh which one do I get and I guess we'll talk about that

00:51:56 ◼   ► But like, you know, I want to get something it's gonna be really awesome

00:52:00 ◼   ► And if I'm gonna get like a nice steel one, I'm not getting addition

00:52:03 ◼   ► But if I was gonna get a nice steel one,

00:52:06 ◼   ► maybe the link bracelet one,

00:52:07 ◼   ► like go nice and high end on that,

00:52:10 ◼   ► I would really want it to be an amazing thing.

00:52:13 ◼   ► And it sounds like from all the reviews,

00:52:16 ◼   ► it's a first generation device.

00:52:17 ◼   ► And yeah, you're right,

00:52:18 ◼   ► we shouldn't be surprised by that,

00:52:19 ◼   ► but it's a first generation device.

00:52:21 ◼   ► And especially the things that caught out to me

00:52:24 ◼   ► or that I really noticed,

00:52:26 ◼   ► not only does everybody say

00:52:27 ◼   ► it's a little bit slow sometimes,

00:52:28 ◼   ► which is certainly disappointing,

00:52:31 ◼   ► but you can see it in some of the videos.

00:52:33 ◼   ► And one of the reviews, I forget which one,

00:52:35 ◼   ► it might have been Nilay, or maybe it was Topolski,

00:52:38 ◼   ► one of the reviews said that you can see the air gap

00:52:42 ◼   ► between the screen and the cover glass,

00:52:44 ◼   ► or the cover sapphire.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And I saw it in one of the videos too,

00:52:48 ◼   ► and it's very clear, you can see the rectangle outline

00:52:52 ◼   ► of the actual screen inside that nice big flat black top.

00:52:56 ◼   ► And it does kind of ruin the illusion

00:52:58 ◼   ► of this being one seamless thing.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And so I look at things like that,

00:53:02 ◼   ► like the screen air gap being visible

00:53:05 ◼   ► and the slowness people are talking about.

00:53:09 ◼   ► And I know also for the slowness thing,

00:53:12 ◼   ► watch kit apps, you can see even in the simulator

00:53:17 ◼   ► on watch kit apps, you can see that there's some inherent

00:53:19 ◼   ► lag in this process of throwing the interface

00:53:23 ◼   ► from the phone to the watch over Bluetooth,

00:53:25 ◼   ► which is how watch kit apps actually work.

00:53:28 ◼   ► That's probably gonna be sluggish too.

00:53:30 ◼   ► And so it seems like there's this kind of theme of,

00:53:34 ◼   ► this is a really cool device

00:53:35 ◼   ► with some really cool features.

00:53:36 ◼   ► However, it's a little bit slow sometimes.

00:53:38 ◼   ► Watch the apps are a little bit slow,

00:53:40 ◼   ► and there's a couple of like, you know,

00:53:41 ◼   ► little niggling points, like, you know, like that,

00:53:43 ◼   ► like the visible air gap on the display.

00:53:47 ◼   ► So I see all these things, and I think, obviously,

00:53:50 ◼   ► you know, speed and display lamination,

00:53:53 ◼   ► these are the kinds of things

00:53:54 ◼   ► that Apple always improves over time.

00:53:56 ◼   ► And so I know that version two is gonna come out

00:54:00 ◼   ► and be significantly better in some of these areas,

00:54:03 ◼   ► 'cause that's what always happens,

00:54:05 ◼   ► probably only a year from now,

00:54:07 ◼   ► like it's probably not even gonna be that far from now.

00:54:09 ◼   ► And I think too, like the hard way,

00:54:10 ◼   ► so we've all heard the same rumors, I think,

00:54:13 ◼   ► the rumors that said that this was supposed

00:54:15 ◼   ► to come out last fall.

00:54:17 ◼   ► So we're kinda, we're like six months later than,

00:54:20 ◼   ► if that's accurate, we're like six months late

00:54:22 ◼   ► on original release.

00:54:24 ◼   ► When it was shown to the public last fall,

00:54:26 ◼   ► it sure looked like the hardware was pretty much done.

00:54:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:54:29 ◼   ► it seemed like the software was probably

00:54:32 ◼   ► what was holding it up all this time.

00:54:34 ◼   ► And that's, as we know from engineering,

00:54:36 ◼   ► that's way more likely to be the case

00:54:38 ◼   ► than the other way around.

00:54:39 ◼   ► It seems like this was definitely,

00:54:40 ◼   ► the hardware was fine, the software needed more time.

00:54:43 ◼   ► Not a big surprise.

00:54:45 ◼   ► So I kinda think that we might be seeing

00:54:47 ◼   ► half generation old hardware.

00:54:51 ◼   ► If they were gonna ship this hardware last fall originally,

00:54:55 ◼   ► then what's the hardware gonna be like next spring,

00:54:59 ◼   ► presumably when there's Apple Watch 2 or whatever,

00:55:03 ◼   ► I feel like we're gonna jump ahead even further

00:55:05 ◼   ► than we usually do in the first

00:55:07 ◼   ► to second generation migration

00:55:09 ◼   ► because we've had that extra six months.

00:55:11 ◼   ► So rather than jumping ahead a year,

00:55:13 ◼   ► we might jump ahead 18 months.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Does that make sense?

00:55:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, it does.

00:55:17 ◼   ► And you very well could be right.

00:55:19 ◼   ► And I'm gonna give Jon a chance to talk here in a second.

00:55:22 ◼   ► But one of the things that I was really looking forward to

00:55:25 ◼   ► once I realized today was embargo day

00:55:27 ◼   ► was hoping that I could really solidify my plans

00:55:32 ◼   ► for what to do because I've talked on this show

00:55:34 ◼   ► and on analog about, well, maybe I'll get one,

00:55:39 ◼   ► but maybe I won't, which typically in my history means

00:55:42 ◼   ► I'm absolutely getting one,

00:55:43 ◼   ► but I just haven't convinced myself yet.

00:55:46 ◼   ► And I gotta tell you, after reading these,

00:55:48 ◼   ► I had been hemming and hawing between,

00:55:51 ◼   ► you know, maybe I will get a spendy one

00:55:52 ◼   ► because God, that $1,100 one looks so good.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - The black one? - Yeah, yeah.

00:55:57 ◼   ► Or at least it does on screen.

00:55:58 ◼   ► Who knows what it looks like in real life?

00:55:59 ◼   ► But on screen it looks so good.

00:56:01 ◼   ► And so I've been flip flopping back and forth

00:56:03 ◼   ► and back and forth.

00:56:04 ◼   ► And the one thing that I think I've concluded

00:56:06 ◼   ► based on all these reviews is if I'm gonna do it at all,

00:56:09 ◼   ► which knowing me I probably will,

00:56:11 ◼   ► I should definitely get a sport

00:56:13 ◼   ► because it sounds like I'm gonna wanna replace this

00:56:15 ◼   ► in a year, just like you were saying, Marco.

00:56:18 ◼   ► John?

00:56:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think for both of you

00:56:21 ◼   ► who are planning on buying one,

00:56:22 ◼   ► I imagine a lot of these early reviews

00:56:24 ◼   ► are pushing them to the sport.

00:56:26 ◼   ► of saying I had all sorts of plans about which one I was going to get, I was picking and

00:56:30 ◼   ► choosing, I was matching things, but now I read these reviews, you know, for tech people

00:56:33 ◼   ► who read five reviews about the watch, all of them are thinking, yeah, maybe I'll just

00:56:37 ◼   ► go with sport. And, you know, and hedge my bets, because you still want one because it

00:56:40 ◼   ► seems like it's cool, but it's so clear that you're only going to want it for a little

00:56:45 ◼   ► while. A couple things on the watch reviews. First is that due to knowing a lot of people

00:56:54 ◼   ► who have had interactions with the watch.

00:56:58 ◼   ► It was nice to see that there's nothing

00:57:01 ◼   ► surprising in the reviews.

00:57:03 ◼   ► If you know people who have gone to the press events, who

00:57:05 ◼   ► have touched the watches, who have experience with them,

00:57:09 ◼   ► everything that was in the reviews,

00:57:12 ◼   ► everything like sort of objective,

00:57:15 ◼   ► not like how does this fit into my life,

00:57:17 ◼   ► but like how does the device perform

00:57:19 ◼   ► and what features does it have, like we knew it all already.

00:57:21 ◼   ► And I think part of that has to do with Apple's big press push and this sort of long

00:57:25 ◼   ► slow-motion rollout where they just

00:57:27 ◼   ► Release information and you could go into the stores and mess with them and you can do all it like it was different than boy

00:57:33 ◼   ► No one has ever touched one of these things before now

00:57:35 ◼   ► I'm gonna read about it and learn about it all these stories were all kind of on the same page and are all things that

00:57:39 ◼   ► We kind of knew already

00:57:41 ◼   ► So that's good to see the one aspect that maybe people who are

00:57:45 ◼   ► Aren't in as close touch with people who play with the watches might have been surprised about it was a marker just mentioned

00:57:51 ◼   ► that they're a little bit slower than people expected.

00:57:54 ◼   ► And you didn't even see a lot of that

00:57:55 ◼   ► even in the press hands-on,

00:57:56 ◼   ► because it wasn't quite as hands-on as you would expect,

00:57:59 ◼   ► but the fact that it feels sluggish, I think,

00:58:01 ◼   ► is catching people a little bit by surprise

00:58:03 ◼   ► for a couple of reasons.

00:58:04 ◼   ► First, that the first iPhone,

00:58:07 ◼   ► despite if you go back and look at it now,

00:58:09 ◼   ► actually being more sluggish than, say, an iPhone 6,

00:58:12 ◼   ► it didn't feel sluggish

00:58:13 ◼   ► because they had removed everything

00:58:16 ◼   ► from the original iPhone,

00:58:17 ◼   ► except for the bare minimum,

00:58:20 ◼   ► the entire phone was concentrating as hard as it could

00:58:22 ◼   ► on doing whatever it is

00:58:23 ◼   ► that you just tap with your finger, like hardcore.

00:58:25 ◼   ► It was, you know, it was like the old Mac menu

00:58:27 ◼   ► where you hold down the button

00:58:30 ◼   ► to pull down a menu from the menu bar.

00:58:32 ◼   ► The entire machine stood still.

00:58:34 ◼   ► But you had really responsive animation

00:58:35 ◼   ► when you were scrubbing through that menu

00:58:36 ◼   ► and that was necessary on 128K Mac.

00:58:39 ◼   ► It just carried over for way too long

00:58:40 ◼   ► because Apple couldn't get a software act together.

00:58:42 ◼   ► But that whole idea of like version one of this product,

00:58:45 ◼   ► interactivity above all,

00:58:47 ◼   ► stop everything else that's going on in the machine

00:58:48 ◼   ► and just do this one thing.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Then with the watch because the screen is so small and because it's a version one like

00:58:53 ◼   ► There was an expectation. I think they would do the same thing

00:58:56 ◼   ► That because it's pushing so few pixels and because the watch does so little

00:59:01 ◼   ► Surely there won't be anything that can happen on the watch. That would be sluggish. I mean why would it?

00:59:05 ◼   ► but kind of like the you know the iPhone sort of

00:59:09 ◼   ► Push back the level out of traction by having incredibly weak hardware the hardware in in the watch is pretty darn weak

00:59:18 ◼   ► I mean people talk about what the s1 might be based on which a series chip it might be based on regardless of which one

00:59:22 ◼   ► It's based on it's surely under clocked right compared to what it was in

00:59:26 ◼   ► Whatever the top-end iPad or phone that had the same CPU architecture did it is a relatively weak CPU and GPU in there and

00:59:33 ◼   ► Unlike the original iPhone the watch has to do all sorts of stuff and that brings me to the second

00:59:39 ◼   ► sort of realization after reading all these reviews is that I

00:59:43 ◼   ► Don't think things are going to get all that much better for the worst-case

00:59:47 ◼   ► Scenarios of performance when people talked about I launched a watch kit app

00:59:51 ◼   ► And I just saw a spinner for a long period of time or lots of waiting screens and a lot of the video reviews you

00:59:55 ◼   ► Get to see the various waiting screens of the various apps one shows an animation of different modes of transportation

01:00:00 ◼   ► One shows a little dot spinner one shows just a black screen. Sometimes the thing doesn't launch at all

01:00:05 ◼   ► That's an architectural thing where watch kit apps are really iPhone apps that are sort of projecting their

01:00:11 ◼   ► their interface onto the phone or interacting back and forth across a wireless connection and

01:00:16 ◼   ► There's nothing you can really do with either the phone hardware or the watch hardware make them both infinitely fast

01:00:24 ◼   ► Make them both have huge amounts of RAM make them have incredibly powerful

01:00:27 ◼   ► CPUs and GPUs if you're trying to do sort of the remote control interface

01:00:31 ◼   ► You know you're gonna be constrained by opening and closing a connection communicating over Bluetooth having

01:00:38 ◼   ► Interference problems because your phone is in your pocket and your your pockets are lined with tinfoil like whatever it is

01:00:43 ◼   ► You can't that's like an architectural thing that version 2 of the phone is not going to fix that what's going to fix that is

01:00:50 ◼   ► Native phone apps and what's going to make native phone apps more feasible is going to be faster hardware more RAM so on and so

01:00:54 ◼   ► forth so the problem will fix itself but

01:00:56 ◼   ► This particular model of doing third-party applications by having them projected from the phone onto the watch not

01:01:03 ◼   ► Literally as in display postscript or anything

01:01:05 ◼   ► but like that whole model of two devices cooperating

01:01:08 ◼   ► to work on the UI together,

01:01:10 ◼   ► that puts kind of a ceiling on how nicely interactive

01:01:13 ◼   ► this is and then that insult to injury,

01:01:15 ◼   ► even on the native apps it seems like in the video,

01:01:17 ◼   ► sometimes it's like a little stutter with an animation

01:01:19 ◼   ► or with a swipe or something like that

01:01:21 ◼   ► and that could be solved by hardware and software

01:01:24 ◼   ► or that could help, that could be resolved by revision

01:01:26 ◼   ► to iOS to make things smoother in the same way

01:01:29 ◼   ► that they really hammered on smoothly scrolling table views

01:01:32 ◼   ► on the original versions of what was then called iPhone OS

01:01:34 ◼   ► for the iPhone.

01:01:36 ◼   ► So I think not only is the version one product

01:01:40 ◼   ► definitely kind of, not compromised, but like,

01:01:44 ◼   ► well, yeah, I guess I would say compromised

01:01:47 ◼   ► in more ways, in different ways than the iPhone was.

01:01:49 ◼   ► 'Cause the iPhone, the original iPhone was compromised

01:01:51 ◼   ► by having no third party apps, no multitasking,

01:01:54 ◼   ► no nothing, right?

01:01:55 ◼   ► And so that was their compromise.

01:01:56 ◼   ► We're gonna make the things that we have really responsive

01:01:58 ◼   ► and the compromise is you lose all this functionality.

01:02:00 ◼   ► The compromise for the watch,

01:02:01 ◼   ► necessarily because of the way it's done

01:02:03 ◼   ► and because of the way it interacts with the iPhone is we can't sacrifice features and

01:02:07 ◼   ► interactivity.

01:02:08 ◼   ► We have to have apps because it's just like we created the app store age and now we're

01:02:11 ◼   ► living in it and if we launch these things without apps it would be a big problem.

01:02:14 ◼   ► So you've got to have apps.

01:02:15 ◼   ► We've got to have them in some way.

01:02:16 ◼   ► If we can't do native apps right away, do this weird watch kit app type thing.

01:02:21 ◼   ► We've got to have wireless communication and things going on in the background because

01:02:24 ◼   ► how do you know you tap a thing on the watch and we have to tell a thing on the phone to

01:02:28 ◼   ► launch.

01:02:29 ◼   ► Maybe the app's not even launched on the app.

01:02:30 ◼   ► launch the thing and load that code, have that code projectors display back here and

01:02:34 ◼   ► while that's going, like, that's the, that is their baseline functionality and it involves

01:02:38 ◼   ► a lot more things going on at the same time than the original iPhone did.

01:02:41 ◼   ► So it's a different set of compromises and I don't think that sluggishness is going to

01:02:46 ◼   ► get better until they change, until native watch kit apps, what are they going to call

01:02:52 ◼   ► them, I'm not going to call them native watch kit apps, they're going to call them native

01:02:53 ◼   ► watch apps get here, until those get here and those aren't going to really be great

01:02:59 ◼   ► until the hardware and software is revised. So I would say wait two or three versions

01:03:02 ◼   ► because I expect the next version to be the same physical form factor, just maybe with

01:03:06 ◼   ► a better CPU and a couple other tweaks and some software tweaks. And then the third one,

01:03:11 ◼   ► that's where you'll get into something that works like they thought the first one was

01:03:14 ◼   ► going to. But that's true all the time. People say like, we're not slamming it. Like that's

01:03:18 ◼   ► the true of all of these products, right? Like I don't think anyone is shocked by this.

01:03:22 ◼   ► When you say that people think you're telling them not to buy an Apple watch, but like,

01:03:27 ◼   ► you know, that was true of the first MacBook Air

01:03:31 ◼   ► or the first written MacBook Pro, first written iMac.

01:03:36 ◼   ► That's how things work in the tech world.

01:03:41 ◼   ► - As a first gen product, the things people are citing

01:03:43 ◼   ► as issues or shortcomings are not significantly worse

01:03:48 ◼   ► than other first gen shortcomings from other product lines.

01:03:51 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like there's one fatal flaw here

01:03:54 ◼   ► or one really big problem.

01:03:56 ◼   ► it just seems like, yeah, you know,

01:03:58 ◼   ► it's kind of slow sometimes,

01:03:59 ◼   ► certain things aren't that smooth yet, you know,

01:04:01 ◼   ► and some of it will be fixed in software

01:04:03 ◼   ► as the software matures,

01:04:05 ◼   ► some of it will just be hardware limitations

01:04:07 ◼   ► that you'll have to buy a new watch for,

01:04:09 ◼   ► and yeah, I guess we'll see,

01:04:10 ◼   ► and I agree that like, that the whole design of WatchKit

01:04:13 ◼   ► being this Bluetooth projection

01:04:16 ◼   ► with running on the phone back and forth,

01:04:17 ◼   ► like, that is so fragile and complicated

01:04:21 ◼   ► and there's so much inherent latency and weirdness there

01:04:25 ◼   ► that we really do have to wait for native watch apps

01:04:28 ◼   ► for this, and it's kind of, it's worth asking,

01:04:31 ◼   ► like, let's suppose watch kit apps really don't work

01:04:35 ◼   ► very well in reality, 'cause it seems from the reviews

01:04:38 ◼   ► that that might be the case, that they might just,

01:04:40 ◼   ► like, one of them, I think it was Neil,

01:04:42 ◼   ► I was really just saying, like, just how slow,

01:04:44 ◼   ► like, he said, like, you could take your phone

01:04:46 ◼   ► out of your pocket and do it on there faster

01:04:47 ◼   ► than you could do it on the watch, so,

01:04:49 ◼   ► let's assume the watch kit apps, in reality,

01:04:52 ◼   ► are a little bit iffy, or at least not quite worthwhile.

01:04:56 ◼   ► Do you think, you know, people are gonna judge

01:04:59 ◼   ► the Apple Watch based on WatchKit,

01:05:02 ◼   ► and if any flaw or shortcoming that WatchKit apps have

01:05:07 ◼   ► will reflect badly on the watch

01:05:09 ◼   ► and on people's perceptions of the watch as a whole.

01:05:12 ◼   ► Do you think releasing WatchKit the way they did now

01:05:16 ◼   ► is better overall than if they hadn't released it at all

01:05:21 ◼   ► and just said no third party apps yet except notifications.

01:05:24 ◼   ► - I think it's probably better to do what they did

01:05:27 ◼   ► because I think there is a chance

01:05:30 ◼   ► that people will get the watch,

01:05:33 ◼   ► fiddle with the third party apps enough to let them know

01:05:37 ◼   ► that they're not as useful as they thought

01:05:39 ◼   ► they were going to be,

01:05:40 ◼   ► but they may still end up with a product

01:05:44 ◼   ► whose functionality they're happy with.

01:05:46 ◼   ► I'm not entirely sure that the watch

01:05:50 ◼   ► loses any value by not being able to have a giant world of applications.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Like I think the core functionality of telling time, doing the fitness tracking,

01:06:00 ◼   ► providing a small window into notifications, tapping you, you know,

01:06:05 ◼   ► like that core set of functionality may be enough to, to make this product worth

01:06:12 ◼   ► its value because it is, it's a novelty.

01:06:14 ◼   ► So there'll be something into that.

01:06:15 ◼   ► And to let people know, do, do I want to wear a smart watch?

01:06:19 ◼   ► Is there a place for a smart watch in my life?

01:06:22 ◼   ► I don't think the answer to that question hinges on

01:06:25 ◼   ► the performance of or even the existence of third party apps.

01:06:30 ◼   ► It would be nice if they worked

01:06:32 ◼   ► and maybe there'll be one or two third party apps that work

01:06:34 ◼   ► and I think it's important for them to do it

01:06:36 ◼   ► because for the one or two things where like,

01:06:38 ◼   ► I mostly don't use third party apps

01:06:40 ◼   ► but I do use overcast when I go running

01:06:42 ◼   ► and I do this, you know, like one or two

01:06:44 ◼   ► that work well enough that they're willing

01:06:45 ◼   ► to deal with the compromises,

01:06:47 ◼   ► having them there adds value.

01:06:49 ◼   ► The fact that a bunch of other apps are flaky

01:06:51 ◼   ► or it would be faster to do on your phone,

01:06:52 ◼   ► people would just be like,

01:06:53 ◼   ► "Oh, I'll just do it on my phone."

01:06:55 ◼   ► Right, and they'll just move on.

01:06:56 ◼   ► And I think this product lives or dies

01:06:59 ◼   ► by the functionality that Apple is providing

01:07:02 ◼   ► in terms of is it a thing that people

01:07:04 ◼   ► are going to want to do?

01:07:05 ◼   ► And it will be a pleasant surprise

01:07:06 ◼   ► and it will open up new worlds of functionality

01:07:08 ◼   ► in the watch when three years from now,

01:07:11 ◼   ► third-party apps are really a thing

01:07:12 ◼   ► and do interesting stuff and have access to like,

01:07:15 ◼   ► you know, the speaker and the camera

01:07:17 ◼   ► that's on the third model and the third generation model

01:07:20 ◼   ► and all this other stuff like, this world will blossom,

01:07:22 ◼   ► but right now, out of the gate,

01:07:24 ◼   ► I think just the core functionality is enough

01:07:26 ◼   ► to set this watch on its way.

01:07:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I think the built-in functionality

01:07:32 ◼   ► from day one and this world of apps

01:07:34 ◼   ► might even be like too much stuff.

01:07:36 ◼   ► It does seem, and a number of the reviews mentioned this,

01:07:40 ◼   ► including Neelay, I keep talking about his review,

01:07:42 ◼   ► it does seem like there's almost a lack of focus.

01:07:45 ◼   ► And maybe that's a good thing, you know, maybe,

01:07:47 ◼   ► 'cause this is very much gonna have like the 80% problem

01:07:52 ◼   ► of like, you know, 80% of the users are gonna use

01:07:54 ◼   ► 20% of the features, but it's gonna be a different

01:07:56 ◼   ► 20% of the features for each user.

01:07:58 ◼   ► So I see why they gave us so many options

01:08:01 ◼   ► of what this thing could do for us.

01:08:03 ◼   ► And that also does support the idea of

01:08:06 ◼   ► it should support third party apps,

01:08:07 ◼   ► because like, what I'm going to do with it

01:08:10 ◼   ► is probably gonna use like four of the built-in functions

01:08:14 ◼   ► plus one or two third-party apps.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Like it's not gonna be a very large number of things

01:08:20 ◼   ► I'm doing with it, but it's going to include

01:08:23 ◼   ► at least one third-party app, you know, at least my own.

01:08:25 ◼   ► Okay, I'm gonna use Overcast's app.

01:08:27 ◼   ► And you know, maybe like, you know,

01:08:30 ◼   ► Clear and when I'm shopping for groceries

01:08:31 ◼   ► if they have an app, I hope they do.

01:08:33 ◼   ► But I suspect the number of apps

01:08:36 ◼   ► on the average person's watch is gonna be pretty small.

01:08:39 ◼   ► like the number of apps they actually use

01:08:41 ◼   ► is gonna be probably, certainly under 10,

01:08:46 ◼   ► you know, that they actually use on a regular basis.

01:08:49 ◼   ► I would say it might even be under five.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a small number.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Like to me, if you look at the watch,

01:08:55 ◼   ► the hierarchy, the navigational hierarchy

01:08:58 ◼   ► of, you know, you go through, you can see a lot of these

01:08:59 ◼   ► in their videos now, and you can see

01:09:02 ◼   ► if you play with WatchKit, you can see some

01:09:04 ◼   ► of the glance stuff, and you can see the hierarchy here

01:09:08 ◼   ► so that when you first unlock it, you see the watch face.

01:09:11 ◼   ► So that's like environment one is the watch face.

01:09:14 ◼   ► And you can get notifications from there,

01:09:16 ◼   ► and then you can go to glances from there.

01:09:18 ◼   ► And the glances are just in this page interface,

01:09:20 ◼   ► you swipe through and you see your glance,

01:09:22 ◼   ► and then you can tap on it to open the app or whatever.

01:09:25 ◼   ► That's all right there.

01:09:26 ◼   ► And then you hit the crown,

01:09:27 ◼   ► and then you go into the home screen.

01:09:29 ◼   ► Then that whole environment zooms out,

01:09:31 ◼   ► then you get the home screen,

01:09:32 ◼   ► you know, the home honeycomb thing.

01:09:35 ◼   ► And then you can log out from there.

01:09:37 ◼   ► What if the watch didn't have the home screen part of it?

01:09:40 ◼   ► What if it was only the watch face

01:09:44 ◼   ► with the notifications on top

01:09:45 ◼   ► and the glances on the bottom,

01:09:46 ◼   ► the way it is now,

01:09:48 ◼   ► the whole interface the way it is now,

01:09:49 ◼   ► but without a home screen,

01:09:51 ◼   ► so that the glances were your launchers?

01:09:53 ◼   ► I think that not only would that be an easier product

01:09:57 ◼   ► to navigate, but I think that might even focus it

01:09:59 ◼   ► a little bit and help people kinda prune the list

01:10:03 ◼   ► of what they wanna do to make it easier

01:10:04 ◼   ► and lighter weight and take up less space,

01:10:07 ◼   ► have fewer things that need to be updated

01:10:09 ◼   ► and need to be running and everything,

01:10:11 ◼   ► I think that might be a better product, but I don't know.

01:10:13 ◼   ► I mean, time will tell once we actually have these things.

01:10:15 ◼   ► - I think the other aspect to reading,

01:10:18 ◼   ► looking at all these reviews lined up here

01:10:20 ◼   ► that we have to keep in mind is when people

01:10:22 ◼   ► are reviewing a technology product,

01:10:24 ◼   ► it's part of their job to sort of take it through its paces.

01:10:27 ◼   ► They're going to dig into all the menus.

01:10:29 ◼   ► They're going to try all the advertised features.

01:10:31 ◼   ► They're going to evaluate, you know,

01:10:32 ◼   ► Here's the umpteen things that Apple says this can do.

01:10:35 ◼   ► It's good at this one, it's not so good at that one,

01:10:37 ◼   ► it's gonna go through every single one.

01:10:38 ◼   ► That's not how regular people use products,

01:10:39 ◼   ► that's how product reviewers use products.

01:10:41 ◼   ► I think people are gonna buy this thing

01:10:43 ◼   ► and maybe fiddle around with it a little bit,

01:10:48 ◼   ► but mostly it'll sort of be like ambient feature discovery.

01:10:52 ◼   ► When a notification, they'll pair it with their phone,

01:10:54 ◼   ► like when a notification appears,

01:10:56 ◼   ► they will discover the sort of

01:10:57 ◼   ► context sensitive replying things

01:10:59 ◼   ► and how the wheel scrolls through things.

01:11:02 ◼   ► When they hit that button on the side,

01:11:04 ◼   ► it will bring up the little contact thing,

01:11:06 ◼   ► and they'll say, "Oh, I can text my contacts.

01:11:09 ◼   ► "Oh, I can call them from the watch too."

01:11:11 ◼   ► They will discover things as they do them,

01:11:13 ◼   ► but they're not gonna go into every single menu

01:11:15 ◼   ► and find every single feature

01:11:16 ◼   ► and try them all out extensively.

01:11:18 ◼   ► People who don't have any interest in fitness tracking

01:11:19 ◼   ► may not even know that it's counting their steps

01:11:21 ◼   ► 'cause they don't even care.

01:11:22 ◼   ► It will be...

01:11:23 ◼   ► Smart watch is not a thing

01:11:26 ◼   ► that most people have any familiarity with at all.

01:11:29 ◼   ► They're just regular watches.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Just look at them for the time.

01:11:31 ◼   ► This is like, all right, well, we're starting from there.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Regular watch, I look at it from the time,

01:11:35 ◼   ► Gruber's Review had a lot of good content

01:11:37 ◼   ► concentrating on how well does it fulfill that job.

01:11:39 ◼   ► The answer is not really that well

01:11:40 ◼   ► because the screen can't be on all the time,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but I'm sure that will get better as time goes on anyway.

01:11:44 ◼   ► But that's where they're starting from.

01:11:45 ◼   ► Like, well, I can tell time on this watch too,

01:11:48 ◼   ► and it looks kind of nice.

01:11:50 ◼   ► Apparently, you know, the one I bought,

01:11:51 ◼   ► I bought the one I thought looked nice.

01:11:53 ◼   ► And also I can get notifications,

01:11:55 ◼   ► and apparently I can text people.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Ooh, look, I can scribble things too.

01:11:57 ◼   ► Like everything is a bonus above I can tell timeline, right?

01:12:02 ◼   ► I don't think people are gonna buy it and be like,

01:12:04 ◼   ► well, it wasn't worth $350

01:12:05 ◼   ► 'cause every single one of the apps that I tried,

01:12:07 ◼   ► it didn't work to, it didn't meet my expectations.

01:12:10 ◼   ► Like they're just gonna,

01:12:12 ◼   ► they're gonna use a small corner of the functionality

01:12:14 ◼   ► slowly revealing itself all the time.

01:12:16 ◼   ► By the time people even make it to that home screen

01:12:18 ◼   ► and get obsessed with like,

01:12:18 ◼   ► maybe they'll try a few of the apps,

01:12:20 ◼   ► they're like, oh, that didn't work here,

01:12:21 ◼   ► let me just go back to doing these things.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Whether they'll regret purchasing it

01:12:24 ◼   ► because they think there's not enough functionality,

01:12:26 ◼   ► I don't know, but I just, I feel like people are not going to,

01:12:31 ◼   ► they're not gonna use it like a tech reviewer.

01:12:33 ◼   ► They're gonna use it like a regular person.

01:12:34 ◼   ► And if you see regular people use their phones even,

01:12:37 ◼   ► if you give a person an iPhone and you don't like,

01:12:40 ◼   ► say, oh, you gotta have this app,

01:12:41 ◼   ► or you gotta have that app,

01:12:41 ◼   ► or if you don't have like a tech nerd setting it up

01:12:43 ◼   ► for them, you just give them an empty phone

01:12:45 ◼   ► and let them use it, it may be a long time

01:12:47 ◼   ► before they even tap one of the icons

01:12:49 ◼   ► that comes on the phone.

01:12:49 ◼   ► It could be months before that happens, right?

01:12:51 ◼   ► That's how regular people use products.

01:12:52 ◼   ► And all of that is in Apple's favor here

01:12:57 ◼   ► because the longer people take

01:12:58 ◼   ► to sort of take the watch through its paces,

01:13:00 ◼   ► the more equipped Apple hopefully will be

01:13:02 ◼   ► with its hardware and software stack

01:13:03 ◼   ► and potentially its next model of watch to say,

01:13:06 ◼   ► oh, that's actually much better now.

01:13:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

01:13:10 ◼   ► I'm really curious what to make of all of this

01:13:12 ◼   ► because like I was saying earlier,

01:13:16 ◼   ► I feel like my anticipation, which was tempered,

01:13:20 ◼   ► but enthusiastic nonetheless,

01:13:22 ◼   ► I feel like there's been some water poured on that fire

01:13:25 ◼   ► and now I'm a lot less sure what I wanna do.

01:13:28 ◼   ► And I'm pretty darn sure,

01:13:31 ◼   ► unless I have some sort of epiphany tomorrow,

01:13:34 ◼   ► that come Friday morning, whenever it is I wake up,

01:13:37 ◼   ► I'm not gonna be waking up in the middle of the night,

01:13:39 ◼   ► I think I'm just gonna schedule a try-on

01:13:41 ◼   ► and then see where to go from there.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Because my livelihood doesn't depend on it

01:13:46 ◼   ► like Marco's sort of does.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And I don't know if this is,

01:13:51 ◼   ► if it's really worth jumping in on the first generation.

01:13:54 ◼   ► And you could consider all of that claim chatter

01:13:57 ◼   ► to use against me in like three weeks.

01:13:59 ◼   ► But for now, I'm really not sure what to make of it.

01:14:03 ◼   ► And one of the things I wanted to discuss

01:14:05 ◼   ► was a few of the more interesting things I've noted,

01:14:08 ◼   ► or that all of us have noted in these reviews.

01:14:10 ◼   ► And one of the common themes I heard was,

01:14:12 ◼   ► well, you know, it's being sold as a way

01:14:15 ◼   ► to get back to real life.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Oh, you can just quickly glance at whatever it is

01:14:19 ◼   ► that's just come in,

01:14:20 ◼   ► and then you can go back to the things that actually matter.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And I was really looking forward to that

01:14:25 ◼   ► because I don't have a lot of self-control

01:14:27 ◼   ► when it comes to looking at my phone.

01:14:28 ◼   ► And I thought, oh, well, maybe I'd be able to glance down

01:14:30 ◼   ► at my watch and move on.

01:14:32 ◼   ► And a lot of these reviews are saying, well, maybe not.

01:14:36 ◼   ► In fact, to quote Nielle,

01:14:37 ◼   ► "So far, I've mostly used the watch

01:14:40 ◼   ► either alone or in an office environment,

01:14:41 ◼   ► but it's really different to have a smartwatch in a bar.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Here, even small distractions make you seem like a jerk.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Sony's trying to describe the project to me

01:14:50 ◼   ► and find ways to work together, but I keep glancing at my wrist to see extremely unimportant

01:14:54 ◼   ► emails fly by. It turns out that checking your watch over and over again is a gesture

01:14:58 ◼   ► that carries a lot of cultural weight. Eventually, Sony asked me if I need to be somewhere else.

01:15:02 ◼   ► We're both embarrassed, and I've mostly just ignored everyone. This is a little too much

01:15:06 ◼   ► future all at once. Now, in a large way, I think that's kind of a self-created problem,

01:15:11 ◼   ► because if you allow all the notifications to come through, then that's what's going

01:15:15 ◼   ► happen and I think we're gonna have to be pretty good janitors and stewards of what

01:15:21 ◼   ► notifications come in. But it was kind of disappointing to me that it seems like the

01:15:27 ◼   ► black hole that I'm so tempted to allow myself to get sucked into, it's just moved from my

01:15:32 ◼   ► pocket to my wrist.

01:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, you should never look for a product to change your habits in that way, you know

01:15:38 ◼   ► what I mean? Because there is a kernel of truth to that aspect of it. It's the kernel

01:15:42 ◼   ► truth is what we talked about when we were first entertaining the idea of an Apple watch like what what use could this thing possibly

01:15:47 ◼   ► have and

01:15:48 ◼   ► The the core kernel is that it really is

01:15:52 ◼   ► much easier better lower friction more convenient

01:15:55 ◼   ► To just pick your wrist up to your face and look at something and deal with there than it is to fish your phone out

01:15:59 ◼   ► Of your pocket by now

01:16:00 ◼   ► We are all experts at extracting our phone with whatever hand we prefer from whatever pocket we always put it in whether that's our pants

01:16:06 ◼   ► Pocket or a jacket pocket depending on the weather or whatever. We're all experts are doing that right, but it's a pain, right?

01:16:11 ◼   ► And there's a potential that you could drop the thing when you're trying to pull it out quickly

01:16:14 ◼   ► That having a thing on your wrist. This is this is the big key killer feature of the thing

01:16:18 ◼   ► Like it is more accessible. It is smaller. It's lighter weight. It's there. You don't have to do anything. It's attached to you already

01:16:24 ◼   ► You're not gonna drop it, right?

01:16:26 ◼   ► That's the core everything else is people projecting like now I'm going to be better about

01:16:33 ◼   ► You know

01:16:34 ◼   ► not having

01:16:35 ◼   ► notifications and paying more attention to people and I'm going to pay attention to my family because I have a phone like if if your

01:16:40 ◼   ► idea is that you will be able to surreptitiously steal glances at

01:16:45 ◼   ► notifications in a way that doesn't annoy people whereas previously you had

01:16:47 ◼   ► to more obviously fish out your phone or do that thing where you put your phone

01:16:50 ◼   ► in your thigh and you glance down on it to the edge of the table. Like that's you doing

01:16:54 ◼   ► that and you're gonna do the same exact things with this thing and it's just

01:16:56 ◼   ► like wherever you go there you are. This device is not going to help

01:17:00 ◼   ► you change your life in that way. But that story spins out from the

01:17:04 ◼   ► kernel of truth about yes it really is way more convenient. In the same way that

01:17:07 ◼   ► like small changes in screen size can be revelatory

01:17:11 ◼   ► with the whole, you know, small iPhone to the big iPhone

01:17:13 ◼   ► six plus and all that, like small changes in form factor.

01:17:17 ◼   ► And I would say a watch is a pretty darn big change

01:17:19 ◼   ► in form factor in a very fundamental ways

01:17:20 ◼   ► from a little rectangle glass thing you hold

01:17:23 ◼   ► can make big differences.

01:17:24 ◼   ► But you have a separate problem with how you balance people

01:17:28 ◼   ► who are not there and their electronic communication

01:17:31 ◼   ► with you and people who are there.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Like that is a separate issue.

01:17:34 ◼   ► No product is probably ever gonna change that for you.

01:17:36 ◼   ► and you can solve that problem or not

01:17:38 ◼   ► with any set of products, whether you have a flip phone

01:17:41 ◼   ► that you're texting people on,

01:17:42 ◼   ► or a pager that you're looking at,

01:17:43 ◼   ► or if you're just daydreaming

01:17:44 ◼   ► and you can't pay attention to people

01:17:45 ◼   ► because you're thinking about a programming problem

01:17:47 ◼   ► and you're head's all,

01:17:48 ◼   ► they're trying to ask you what you want for dinner.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Like, these are all problems that are,

01:17:50 ◼   ► does that happen to lunch?

01:17:52 ◼   ► Just, this is totally, they're all hypothetical scenarios.

01:17:54 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:17:55 ◼   ► No, you know, no resemblance to real person or events,

01:17:58 ◼   ► blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Anyway. (laughing)

01:18:01 ◼   ► Those problems are gonna be there no matter what.

01:18:03 ◼   ► So, you shouldn't feel disappointed

01:18:05 ◼   ► that this doesn't solve that problem for you.

01:18:07 ◼   ► And even, I would even say the fitness tracking thing

01:18:09 ◼   ► as well, like the Fitbit or whatever,

01:18:11 ◼   ► like if I get a fitness tracker,

01:18:13 ◼   ► it's gonna help me exercise.

01:18:14 ◼   ► They do, like it can motivate you.

01:18:15 ◼   ► It can gamify things, right?

01:18:17 ◼   ► But if your problem is that I had a Fitbit

01:18:20 ◼   ► and I used it for a while,

01:18:21 ◼   ► but then I got bored and I stopped exercising.

01:18:23 ◼   ► When I got the Apple Watch,

01:18:24 ◼   ► then I'm really gonna do fitness stuff

01:18:26 ◼   ► 'cause I'll be so excited about it.

01:18:27 ◼   ► It's like, if you already traveled that route,

01:18:29 ◼   ► like the problem is not the fitness tracker.

01:18:30 ◼   ► The problem is you.

01:18:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:18:33 ◼   ► And we're gonna see this story unfolding

01:18:36 ◼   ► over and over again over the next year

01:18:39 ◼   ► of somebody getting an Apple Watch,

01:18:41 ◼   ► thinking it will solve their overly distracted

01:18:43 ◼   ► by notifications problem, and it just makes it worse,

01:18:46 ◼   ► or it doesn't have any meaningful improvement.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Because this requires a level of presence

01:18:53 ◼   ► and self-discipline that if you don't already have it,

01:18:59 ◼   ► this is not going to give it to you.

01:19:01 ◼   ► Like if your phone, first of all,

01:19:03 ◼   ► if you're getting notifications constantly,

01:19:05 ◼   ► notifications should be meaningful.

01:19:08 ◼   ► It should be actions or events that you need to

01:19:12 ◼   ► or really want to be notified of immediately.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Not something you can check when you have a chance,

01:19:19 ◼   ► something you actually need to be notified.

01:19:20 ◼   ► So like for example, almost nobody needs to be notified

01:19:23 ◼   ► about a Twitter @ reply, 'cause that's something

01:19:26 ◼   ► you can just check later when you have a chance.

01:19:29 ◼   ► I think framing it the way as like need to or want to,

01:19:31 ◼   ► like that's gonna be so different for people

01:19:33 ◼   ► that it's probably not a useful definition.

01:19:35 ◼   ► What it really comes down to is,

01:19:37 ◼   ► are you serving the device or is the device serving you?

01:19:40 ◼   ► Because framing it that way lets people decide

01:19:43 ◼   ► for themselves, no, the device is serving me

01:19:45 ◼   ► because I really need to know

01:19:47 ◼   ► every single ad reply or whatever, right?

01:19:49 ◼   ► You have to be honest with yourself about that.

01:19:50 ◼   ► You have to say, well, like,

01:19:52 ◼   ► I guess what it comes down to is,

01:19:55 ◼   ► if something happens on one of your electronic devices

01:19:57 ◼   ► and you find yourself compelled to address that

01:20:00 ◼   ► on those devices, no matter what that thing is,

01:20:03 ◼   ► and you find yourself regretting while you're doing it,

01:20:07 ◼   ► like that you feel compelled that like,

01:20:10 ◼   ► you are being torn away from something else,

01:20:13 ◼   ► that you say in yourself,

01:20:15 ◼   ► I would rather not be torn away right now,

01:20:17 ◼   ► but I have to because whatever.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Now sometimes that's a real have to,

01:20:20 ◼   ► like you have one of those jobs

01:20:21 ◼   ► where your boss can call you at all hours,

01:20:22 ◼   ► in which case you should get a different job.

01:20:24 ◼   ► But for the Twitter @ replies,

01:20:28 ◼   ► people turn that on because they rarely get @ replies.

01:20:30 ◼   ► But if an @ reply comes and they're in the middle

01:20:32 ◼   ► of a meaningful conversation with their spouse

01:20:34 ◼   ► and they feel like they have to go get that thing

01:20:36 ◼   ► and then their spouse gets angry,

01:20:39 ◼   ► you will regret having gone to look at that notification

01:20:42 ◼   ► even though you set that up yourself.

01:20:43 ◼   ► So at a certain point, you are serving the device.

01:20:47 ◼   ► The device has a mastery over your life.

01:20:49 ◼   ► You have given it more power than you really want to.

01:20:52 ◼   ► And then you have to start to question

01:20:54 ◼   ► When whatever that thing was happened,

01:20:56 ◼   ► and I did it like sort of compulsively and instinctively

01:20:58 ◼   ► and went to look at it, was I being thoughtful about that?

01:21:01 ◼   ► Did I think about the fact that,

01:21:03 ◼   ► did I weigh the potential importance of that Twitter @reply

01:21:06 ◼   ► against what I was doing at this moment?

01:21:09 ◼   ► Because just having notifications of Twitter @replies,

01:21:12 ◼   ► yeah, it's not for most people, I think,

01:21:14 ◼   ► but just having it in and of itself

01:21:16 ◼   ► is a reasonable thing to do,

01:21:18 ◼   ► especially if you don't get a lot of them,

01:21:20 ◼   ► but feeling compelled to look at it in a context

01:21:23 ◼   ► where if removed from the situation, you would say,

01:21:25 ◼   ► that was a bad call.

01:21:27 ◼   ► Now is not a time to look at Twitter @mentions,

01:21:29 ◼   ► but you just do it compulsively.

01:21:30 ◼   ► That's when you know you have a problem.

01:21:32 ◼   ► And the way to address that problem

01:21:33 ◼   ► is probably to turn off that notification.

01:21:35 ◼   ► And I think every individual person

01:21:37 ◼   ► have to decide for themselves

01:21:38 ◼   ► at what point they feel like the device

01:21:39 ◼   ► is now in control of them,

01:21:41 ◼   ► rather as opposed to them being in control of the device.

01:21:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it.

01:21:47 ◼   ► And now I'm feeling terribly, terribly guilty.

01:21:49 ◼   ► So thanks for the shaming,

01:21:50 ◼   ► because hopefully this will cause me to reform my ways.

01:21:54 ◼   ► - I mean, that's why I want everyone to judge for themselves.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Do you feel that?

01:21:59 ◼   ► Don't let other people tell you,

01:22:00 ◼   ► don't let other people tell you

01:22:02 ◼   ► that you're looking at your phone too much, right?

01:22:03 ◼   ► But if someone tells you

01:22:05 ◼   ► you're looking at your phone too much

01:22:06 ◼   ► and you feel bad about it,

01:22:07 ◼   ► that means you agree with them, right?

01:22:10 ◼   ► Because then, even if it's just like,

01:22:12 ◼   ► is your phone making your life worse or better?

01:22:16 ◼   ► And only you can decide that.

01:22:18 ◼   ► But if enough people are annoyed at you,

01:22:20 ◼   ► them being annoyed at you is making your life worse.

01:22:22 ◼   ► So it's an indirect thing, you know what I mean?

01:22:23 ◼   ► Like that's how you have to balance this.

01:22:25 ◼   ► And I don't wanna get back to the kernel of truth

01:22:27 ◼   ► about the phone, about the watch being,

01:22:29 ◼   ► you know, having it closer to you.

01:22:31 ◼   ► If you have a problem with notifications

01:22:33 ◼   ► and sort of like electronic balancing with like life

01:22:37 ◼   ► that's happening in front of your eyes,

01:22:39 ◼   ► the phone is probably,

01:22:40 ◼   ► the watch is probably gonna make that worse

01:22:41 ◼   ► because it gives you more vectors

01:22:43 ◼   ► for the hardware to control you.

01:22:45 ◼   ► If you don't have a problem with that,

01:22:47 ◼   ► the watch has the potential to make it much, much better

01:22:49 ◼   ► because you're gonna be doing the same things,

01:22:51 ◼   ► you're managing your notifications,

01:22:53 ◼   ► you're not dealing with electronic devices

01:22:54 ◼   ► when you don't want to, they're not controlling you,

01:22:56 ◼   ► you're controlling them.

01:22:57 ◼   ► It's just that one aspect of it now becomes more efficient.

01:23:00 ◼   ► Now you don't have to fish your phone out of the pocket.

01:23:02 ◼   ► So like say you have 10 notifications during the day,

01:23:04 ◼   ► if six of them, you don't have to fish your phone

01:23:06 ◼   ► out of the pocket, that's a big win.

01:23:08 ◼   ► And you think, well, who cares?

01:23:08 ◼   ► Is it a big win?

01:23:09 ◼   ► It's like, who cares if the phone,

01:23:10 ◼   ► screen on my phone is like a couple of millimeters bigger.

01:23:13 ◼   ► Does that really make a big deal?

01:23:15 ◼   ► Small changes like that can make a big difference.

01:23:17 ◼   ► that's that's the big win of the watch it like, you know, I think a panzerino had the article about

01:23:23 ◼   ► Giving you time back

01:23:25 ◼   ► it will because it will if you take the same interactions you were going to have and make a whole bunch of them way more

01:23:30 ◼   ► efficient and

01:23:31 ◼   ► faster and like less less unlocking your phone and doing touch ID and or entering your code if you don't have touch ID and then

01:23:38 ◼   ► Swiping the notification and blah blah if you just turn your wrist up that is a huge win

01:23:42 ◼   ► But if your problem is that your hardware is controlling you now

01:23:46 ◼   ► you just took another piece of hardware, you just took another eel and slapped it onto

01:23:49 ◼   ► your wrist and brought it on the line parlance and that's just going to make your life worse,

01:23:52 ◼   ► not better.

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