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671: Even Apple Can’t Beat the Sun

 

00:00:00   Tis the season for Tiff to make the annual Christmas slideshow from last year's Christmas pictures and to want to murder the entire world when she tries to figure out what software exists to do this.

00:00:16   And the answer still seems to be basically like iPhoto and or Apple Photos, rather.

00:00:25   And, you know, to quote her a few minutes ago, I can't believe it's 2025 and this is still the answer to this question.

00:00:31   I mean, she's not wrong.

00:00:33   I know.

00:00:33   Like, it's I'm sure there is a thousand like subscription BS apps that would do this as long as you sign up for a free trial for a $15 a week subscription that you'll forget to cancel.

00:00:43   Like, I'm sure there's a lot of that.

00:00:45   What is this?

00:00:46   Describe what she's making here.

00:00:48   Slideshow means it shows a bunch of photos one after the other with with music in the background.

00:00:53   Yeah, not necessarily always one after the other, but like, you know what?

00:00:55   So what iPhoto did a million years ago and what the Apple Photos app, you know, kind of imported for iPhoto is have, you know, kind of like a nice like generator of videos of photos that would also do things like show like, you know, two or three up on the screen at once.

00:01:09   And have you like, you know, have you able to like slightly customize it.

00:01:13   But the problem is, it's it's default picks for how it puts things up is never quite what she wants.

00:01:19   So she wants to be able to customize and say, all right, for this slide.

00:01:22   Look, I love that you made a three up layout.

00:01:25   That's great.

00:01:25   But can this picture be this one instead?

00:01:27   Like that kind of stuff.

00:01:28   Just customize.

00:01:30   And of course, that's like two steps above the levels of customization that Apple would ever provide.

00:01:36   Apple's like, we're going to do this magically for you.

00:01:38   And this is it.

00:01:40   This is all the control you get.

00:01:41   And, you know, if you want something more than that, make the whole thing from scratch.

00:01:46   See, also Swift UI.

00:01:47   Unfortunately, you know, Apple's versions of it was Apple's version of it was fine back like in the iPhoto days.

00:01:53   And kind of along for the very early days of the Photos.app days.

00:01:57   But like, like everything else about Apple's like desktop class apps, they basically stop being made in the post Steve Jobs era.

00:02:07   And it was also the iPhone era.

00:02:10   So we don't really know cause and effect there.

00:02:11   But the effect is they don't get made anymore.

00:02:15   Like Apple doesn't really touch their apps at all anymore.

00:02:19   So it's kind of a shame.

00:02:21   I do miss the era of like the computer is going to enable you to be this multimedia hub that's going to like take all of your media from your life and deal with it and put it together and make nice things like that.

00:02:35   That era is over.

00:02:37   And be a bicycle for the mind.

00:02:39   Well, it sounds like Tiff is ending it because she wants she demands it to be on the phone.

00:02:43   No, she wants it to not.

00:02:44   She wants it on the desktop.

00:02:45   But she said she wants the slideshow to be on the phone though, right?

00:02:47   No, no.

00:02:48   She just wants something that will generate a video because what the desired output is a video file that we can like send to her parents, play on the TV from a USB key, like all sorts of stuff like that.

00:02:59   Like just a video file.

00:03:01   Like take these photos, make a nice video with a song behind it and a nice arrangement of the photos coming on the screen.

00:03:06   That's basically it.

00:03:08   So here's my suggestion then if that's the requirements.

00:03:13   Use Keynote, present, play music in the background, audio hijack, capture, or actually you don't even need to just screen record with audio and manually use the arrow key to go through it and then just take the screen recording and it's your video.

00:03:26   Yeah, that's not a bad idea.

00:03:27   I believe when we discussed this last year or the year before, whenever we last discussed this, I believe that was one of the recommendations then too.

00:03:37   And I think that's probably the right move.

00:03:39   Because then you have total control over the layout of each thing.

00:03:41   You have total control when the slides change.

00:03:43   You can put in transitions because it's Keynote.

00:03:45   You know, if you want to crossfade between the slides or whatever, have things animate in.

00:03:50   And yeah, just record the whole, do it on like a laptop with a smaller screen or get the screen resolution you want and just record the screen.

00:03:56   Not efficient, but if you want a video file, that'll do it.

00:04:00   Yeah, because the problem is like back in the day, like Apple, for a long time, Apple's like big desktop strategy was we're going to make these amazing, you know, the iLife apps.

00:04:13   Like we're going to make these amazing apps that are going to deal with media really well and are going to help you do things that are hard otherwise.

00:04:21   And we're going to do it not only easily, but we're going to give you like presets that have really good taste and have really nice design and layouts and text and everything.

00:04:31   Like that was what Apple specialized in.

00:04:33   And over the years, you know, into that strategy and following that strategy, they would occasionally like add new templates, add new themes, add here's a new video type we can generate.

00:04:43   Here's a new theme for, you know, iMovie or whatever it is.

00:04:48   So that all, that entire attitude of this is an amazing thing to empower people to do, that entire ecosystem of that being a thing that people really needed and wanted, that entire era, I think basically died with Steve.

00:05:06   And again, I don't know if that was just where the, where the computing industry was going with mobile or what, but like that was something that jobs really cared deeply about and was really good at like, you know, directing the creation of products kind of in that, in that, in that way.

00:05:21   And like empowering people to do that kind of thing.

00:05:23   And I do kind of miss that era of computing, you know, now it's all about services revenue.

00:05:28   You know, you know, now it's like, let's build huge ecosystems where people can extract weekly subscriptions out of everybody from like kind of scamming them.

00:05:36   And it's like, it's a very different, like computing.

00:05:39   Now you have to constantly be like on the defensive.

00:05:42   You have to be constantly like, you know, looking for ways that they're trying to get you.

00:05:46   Like, oh, they want my email address.

00:05:48   They're going to send me an email every day for the rest of time now, just so I can rotate this photo or whatever.

00:05:53   Like, it's, you have to be so defensive now because everyone is so thirsty and so optimized to extract as much as possible.

00:06:03   It's a very different era.

00:06:04   And, and yeah, you know, a lot of things are better now, but I do kind of miss some aspects of the good old days in this department.

00:06:10   I think the modern replacement for that is the memories thing where the phone makes you little slideshows and just gives them to you.

00:06:16   Here you go.

00:06:16   I made this for you.

00:06:17   Right.

00:06:17   But if you want to customize it, too bad.

00:06:19   Like, well, I know, but like the, the number of people who are hand assembling a slideshow and, you know, hand laying out the pictures and deciding what goes where and picking the music and the timing and everything is just so incredibly small.

00:06:30   So, you know, that's the, where we live and go from computers for as tools for people who want, you know, creative people who want tools to do something versus the thing that literally every person on the planet has.

00:06:42   And a tiny fraction of them are creative people who want tools, but Apple just provides here.

00:06:48   I made a movie for you.

00:06:49   But, and it wouldn't even take that much to like, cause that's here.

00:06:52   I made a movie for you is a great starting point, but don't let that be the only point like, yeah.

00:06:57   Generate a starting point for people.

00:07:00   That'd be like, what a great use of AI these days, like generate me a starting point for this, but then let me edit it.

00:07:06   Let me, let me tweak it.

00:07:07   Let me control it.

00:07:08   That would be wonderful.

00:07:10   But I don't know.

00:07:11   I have a hard time seeing how the current like software ecosystem gets from here to there without it being just a ad riddled nightmare of invasions of every possible way.

00:07:25   A keynote can export as a video.

00:07:27   So maybe that is the solution.

00:07:28   You don't need to do the screen recording.

00:07:29   Give it a try.

00:07:30   All right.

00:07:32   Let's do some follow-up.

00:07:33   With regard to Paris Butfield at Edison's locked Apple ID, anonymous writes,

00:07:37   It's definitely illegal here in Australia for Apple to take purchases away and stop certain functions of devices from working.

00:07:43   The legal term here is fit for use or fit for purpose.

00:07:47   Terms of service aren't a defense if they break the law.

00:07:51   And then this is all related to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, the AECC, or as I like to call it, the AECC.

00:07:58   This specific case isn't covered by an ombudsman.

00:08:01   What a great word that I never use.

00:08:04   Anyway, this specific case isn't covered by an ombudsman, so it would have to go to court if Apple didn't agree to resolve it.

00:08:10   Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, etc.

00:08:11   I've been involved in several similar battles, though.

00:08:14   The AECC is why we have three-year warranties on Apple computers and iPads in Australia.

00:08:18   They do good work.

00:08:19   Here in the U.S., we used to have the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

00:08:26   And I'm kind of stealing John's thunder from the show notes here, but John pointed out that I have just said we had the CFPB.

00:08:34   Because MAGA.

00:08:36   I mean, I'm sorry, because we don't have a functioning government anymore.

00:08:39   Quoting from Wikipedia, at the outset of his second presidential term, the jackass at the helm appointed an acting director of the CFPB.

00:08:48   That's what it says on Wikipedia.

00:08:49   Isn't that funny?

00:08:49   Of the CFPB, who immediately ordered the CFPB to stop regulatory activity and sought to fire 90% of the agency staff.

00:08:56   Cool.

00:08:57   Well done, everyone.

00:08:58   Just great work.

00:09:00   Love it.

00:09:02   I do, you know, one area of this I think is interesting is like, I mean, if we ignore the sad parts about our terrible non-functioning government that is seemingly against everything that makes common sense for regular people.

00:09:16   Well, it's cool for us because we're white dudes, but everyone else is screwed.

00:09:20   No, we're screwed too because we're not in their club.

00:09:23   Like it's just, you know, we're just screwed less than everyone else, but we're still screwed, believe me.

00:09:27   Right.

00:09:29   But, you know, one angle of this, if I can step back from the politics and just kind of look at like the interesting maybe legal question is like, so this was in the context of, you know, with Apple suspending accounts for suspected fraud or abuse, that they also seem to lose access to any purchases they've made.

00:09:49   I think there could be a case to be made legally that, like, the term buy being used in the interface when you purchase a license to maybe sometimes see a movie that you might maybe be able to do in the future for some undetermined amount of time and they can be taken away at every moment.

00:10:13   I think the term buy is misleading.

00:10:16   And I think maybe a case could be made that you could maybe sue a company that told you you were buying a movie and then could take it away from you at any time in the future for unrelated reasons.

00:10:32   Like that to me, that's a pretty straightforward fraud or mislead or, you know, false advertising.

00:10:40   False advertising.

00:10:41   Yeah, I mean, like, it seems like – because, again, the term buy means something.

00:10:46   And when you tell customers you can buy this movie or buy this book, that means something in people's minds.

00:10:54   And I don't think anybody, if you ask people on, like, regular people in the world, if you ask them, did they understand that to mean buy a license to read this book or buy a license to see this movie in these limited forms that can be revoked at any time if you, like, you know, renew a weird gift card in the future?

00:11:12   Like that, I don't think anybody would ever interpret it to mean that, any common people.

00:11:17   And, you know, we already have lots of precedent, I believe, that suggests that, like, you can't just bury something in a giant wall of terms and agreements and expect that to be super binding if it's, like, not common.

00:11:28   So I think that this could be an interesting thing.

00:11:30   Like, I don't think anyone's ever really going to, you know, have the cloud or power behind this to try to litigate it.

00:11:37   But that is an interesting question, I think, for, like, for all of these, you know, storefronts that use the term buy for media.

00:11:47   That does not behave the way that non-digital purchases behave with those exact same terms, often for the exact same content.

00:11:57   I'm going to guess that there have been multiple cases of litigating exactly this and that the big companies won and that they all happened in the 90s.

00:12:03   That's just a guess, though.

00:12:05   All right, let's talk about message threads.

00:12:07   John, can you set a little context here for me, please?

00:12:10   This is about my message threads, group conversation, multiple people in the Apple Messages app, splitting into, for me, just two different conversations with the same people and trying to figure out if there was a way to get them to go back together.

00:12:24   And someone had written in with a follow-up last week about, they said, so your conversation split into two.

00:12:31   I've got 21 copies of my three-person conversation, 21 different copies of my three-person conversation.

00:12:37   And I was trying to do the math that, like, even if you assume that it splinters every time someone accidentally sends to, like, you know, an Apple ID and a phone number, a phone number and a phone number, a phone number, Apple ID, Apple ID, like, there aren't enough combinations that it would be 21.

00:12:50   I messed up the math at the time.

00:12:52   So just to clarify, many people wrote in to give the actual math.

00:12:56   And that is, if each person in a three-person group chat has two ways to be contacted, either a phone number or an Apple ID, then there are just eight possible combinations of all three participants.

00:13:06   Order doesn't matter in this case.

00:13:08   If order matters, I guess it's a higher number and maybe whatever.

00:13:10   But anyway, not 21.

00:13:12   Good deal.

00:13:12   And then tell me about splitting and merging and so on with regard to all this.

00:13:17   Yeah, as I said last episode, the idea that you're going to discipline everybody in all parts of all these group conversations to very carefully make sure that their settings on who they send from, like, do you initiate conversations from your Apple ID or your phone number?

00:13:32   And you'll make sure all their contacts are exactly right, and you'll make sure that, you know, their reachability is, like, that's never going to work.

00:13:40   You're never going to be able to get everyone's settings all in sync.

00:13:44   And that's still just based on the assumption that the problem is that, you know, someone's doing from Apple ID and then doing from phone number and, you know, whatever.

00:13:53   I'm not even sure that's true based on the evidence of people saying I've got 21 copies of the conversation.

00:13:57   Again, that's my point of trying to do that math.

00:13:59   But anyway, that's never going to work.

00:14:01   But one other piece of advice, aside from, like, you know, delete everything, log out of your Apple ID, resync, blah, blah.

00:14:07   One other piece of advice that lots of people gave was things that had worked for them was they started messing with the metadata for the message threads.

00:14:15   So message threads, you can have a name for the group conversation.

00:14:19   You can have a background image.

00:14:20   I think you can have an icon for it.

00:14:22   Like, that metadata.

00:14:23   I said by changing that metadata, very often they said erase all the metadata.

00:14:29   Some people said make sure the metadata matches in the two conversations or if it already matches, make it unmatch and rematch.

00:14:37   And that's mostly a non-destructive thing, although I can tell you that your daughter might get annoyed that you're changing her clever group name on something or other.

00:14:45   I did that and it didn't seem to do anything.

00:14:48   But then the next day, the message threads were re-merged.

00:14:50   So I don't know.

00:14:52   Is that what did it?

00:14:53   Would they have re-merged on their own?

00:14:54   It's a mystery.

00:14:56   But I'm going to suggest that as the only thing that I found that might work.

00:15:00   Mess with the metadata.

00:15:03   Change the icon and the name and so on and so forth.

00:15:05   Even if they're already the same, change them to be different, then change them back to be the same and then, I guess, go to sleep and cross your fingers.

00:15:11   Excellent.

00:15:13   Cool.

00:15:14   All right.

00:15:15   We got a fair bit of feedback with regard to my lamenting about TV stuff.

00:15:21   That was in Overtime, wasn't it?

00:15:23   And the probably most succinct view of everything came from Colin.

00:15:29   I'm going to read a little.

00:15:32   It's kind of a lot, but I think it's all fascinating and pertinent.

00:15:35   Colin writes, TV Everywhere very much still exists and is supported in channels, the software that I like, with the exception of NBC-owned networks.

00:15:42   Those are DRM'd and channels won't touch that.

00:15:44   There are channels extensions to get around it by capturing a Chrome window, but that's too much work.

00:15:48   But for all the ESPN stuff, which I would care about for college football and some NFL, as of now works great.

00:15:54   This is the primary way I consume college football using cable login.

00:15:57   I do fear that NBC's DRM is a canary in the coal mine and the other networks will follow suit sooner or later.

00:16:02   I couldn't agree more with Colin about this.

00:16:04   So TV Everywhere, with Fios, you get a TV Everywhere login or whatever.

00:16:08   And what that's supposed to let you do is stream basically everything you get on cable through the Internet.

00:16:15   So you can watch TV anywhere.

00:16:17   Right, exactly.

00:16:19   And everywhere even.

00:16:20   Not just anywhere, but everywhere.

00:16:21   But anyways, we'll talk a little bit more about how that's not really the reality of the situation, but that's the theory.

00:16:28   But as Colin points out, it was like six months or a year ago, I think, that NBC pulled their stuff from TV Everywhere.

00:16:35   And first of all, we watch a lot of truly, well, I shouldn't say a lot, but we watch some truly filthy, terrible television on Bravo, which is an NBC channel.

00:16:44   And secondly, I couldn't agree more with Colin that since NBC has pulled their stuff, I bet you it's not long before like Disney does.

00:16:51   So that's ABC and ESPN and whatnot.

00:16:53   And who knows what else happens after.

00:16:55   Continuing with Colin's feedback, cloud TV providers are all fine.

00:16:59   If you're interested in local sports, you need to be a little judicious in your choice because a lot of them don't carry the various regional sports networks.

00:17:04   For example, only YouTube TV carries NBC Sports Philadelphia.

00:17:07   They're great for national networks like ESPN.

00:17:09   I suspect that their cloud DVRs are doing some jiggery-pokery behind the scenes and not necessarily representing a one-to-one recording.

00:17:14   And the recordings are super ethereal.

00:17:17   Is that how you pronounce that?

00:17:17   Ethereal?

00:17:18   Ethereal.

00:17:19   Thank you.

00:17:20   I could be wrong also.

00:17:20   I've also never pronounced it.

00:17:21   Yeah, I don't think I've ever said that one out loud.

00:17:24   Anyways, for example, when YouTube TV had its carriage dispute with ABC, everyone also lost access to their recordings from ABC networks.

00:17:30   What were you saying, Marco, about a license?

00:17:32   Most of them also support TV Everywhere logins.

00:17:34   IPTV.

00:17:36   Casey's correct in his assumption that these are all sorts of shapes.

00:17:39   They're mostly illicit streams, but they do exist, and they work with channels.

00:17:42   The Magic is based on two standards, M3U8 for playlists and video feeds and XML TV for the program guide data.

00:17:48   Any service that offers these can be added as a source in channels.

00:17:51   This Git repo, which we'll link in the show notes, has a bunch of channels in M3U8 and XML TV format for easy plugging into channels,

00:17:56   or just open it in VLC or IINA to flip through the list.

00:18:00   But I can't speak to the reliability of those channels.

00:18:02   Other shady options.

00:18:04   StreamEast is apparently the big service for sports streams.

00:18:07   If I'm completely forthcoming, the whole reason I want to figure all this out is because I'm tired of trying to use StreamEast from time to time to watch New York Giants games that I cannot see where I am currently located.

00:18:20   Colin continues.

00:18:22   OTA. I think OTA over the air is less valuable in the age where everything is available via streaming, but it works with channels and you can get some sports.

00:18:27   All the NFL games are broadcast over the air, and 506sports.com shows you what games are in what markets week to week.

00:18:33   As an aside, 506sports is incredible.

00:18:36   I've been using it for years.

00:18:37   It's great.

00:18:38   College football puts the big matchups over the air.

00:18:40   I've had an antenna for years, and I find that its utility diminishes year to year, except for NFL games.

00:18:44   My first cut at channels was with an over-the-air antenna, and that did work great, but the current setup is so much better.

00:18:50   Sports streaming is finally becoming a thing.

00:18:53   ESPN now has a streaming package called ESPN Unlimited.

00:18:55   26 of the 30 MLB teams now offer an in-market streaming package in addition to the MLB TV out-of-market streaming package.

00:19:01   Peacock has a variety of streaming options if you need the NBC Sports Networks.

00:19:05   None of these work the channels in any way.

00:19:06   The Super Bowl streams in 4K on Tubi, but the broadcast itself is produced in 1080p HDR.

00:19:11   Receiving anything, actually, that's not accurate, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:15   4K via cable provider is not worth anything, asserts Colin.

00:19:18   I don't think I agree with him, but that's neither here nor there.

00:19:22   So, what is my situation?

00:19:24   Just for perspective, so I have the HD Home Run with the cable card plugged in, as we discussed

00:19:29   in overtime, and according to channels, I get 321 different channels from Fios via the cable

00:19:36   card via the HD Home Run.

00:19:37   However, via TV Everywhere, I get 133, which means I am missing, air quotes, missing 188 channels

00:19:48   through TV Everywhere.

00:19:49   So, I would rather continue to use my cable card, if at all possible.

00:19:54   Please, and thank you.

00:19:54   But very quickly, I did a quick survey of the channels I have, and it's exactly what I expected

00:19:59   and what Colin asserted.

00:20:00   I do get via TV Everywhere, ABC, Fox, CBS, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, ESPN News, SEC Network, ACC

00:20:07   Network, Fox Sports 1, 2, and the Big Ten Networks.

00:20:10   I do not, however, get NBC or Bravo, etc.

00:20:13   So, John, in particular, any thoughts on this?

00:20:15   I was wondering if your channel counts include, like, all the standard def channels and everything.

00:20:20   Like, is that included in the HD Home Run?

00:20:22   Oh, in TV Everywhere?

00:20:24   I'm not sure.

00:20:24   But yes, you are right.

00:20:25   That is a very good point I didn't think about.

00:20:27   So, what John is saying is, with Fios, you get a standard def like ABC, and you get a HD or high def ABC.

00:20:34   And so, you're right.

00:20:35   I did not consider that that is a fair bit of duplication that I believe is in that 321 count that I quoted earlier.

00:20:43   That's a really good point.

00:20:43   All right.

00:20:45   Let's talk about custom pronunciations in iOS.

00:20:47   Anonymous writes in, with regard to pronunciations, have you tried the accessibility settings for pronunciation?

00:20:52   You can get to it through accessibility, voiceover, speech, and then pronunciations.

00:20:56   That will be in the show notes.

00:20:57   There's also an Apple support document about it.

00:20:59   Also in the show notes, accessibility, read and speak, pronunciations.

00:21:03   And there's a second Knowledge Base article about this.

00:21:06   And then, finally, there's actually a video guide on Apple's YouTube channel, which is only like two and a half minutes and was really well done.

00:21:12   Actually, I don't know if either of you spent the time to watch it, but it's really, really good.

00:21:16   So, you can check that out if you'd like.

00:21:17   I went to that screen in my phone, and what did I see there?

00:21:20   I saw a pronunciation of my last name and one of my friend's last names.

00:21:23   So, obviously, we've discussed this in past episodes, and I just forgot about it.

00:21:26   The thing about this, this is like how the voice, when you do like text to speech, this is how the voice will pronounce things.

00:21:32   So, if you have a bunch of text that includes your last name, I presumably, Apple's accessibility thing that says, please read this text to me, will use the pronunciations you put in this thing.

00:21:41   I don't know if it influences what Siri says.

00:21:45   You know, and everything is so messed up in Apple's world.

00:21:49   I'm not sure if they're separate systems or they're combined or whatever.

00:21:51   But, I mean, they can't possibly combine because my name is in that pronunciation screen from however many years ago I put it in there.

00:21:59   But the phone wasn't saying my name right until I recorrected it as per an earlier episode when we talked about this.

00:22:04   So, anyway, it's worth doing if you ever have your phone read you things and you're annoyed by mispronouncing stuff.

00:22:11   All right.

00:22:11   Reading from Mac rumors is wildly unrelated.

00:22:14   Reading from Mac rumors.

00:22:16   Mac OS Tahoe introduced a bug that causes a studio display connected to a Mac to flicker every so often, and subsequent updates only seem to have made the issue worse.

00:22:23   Mac users with the studio display have been complaining about intermittent flickering since the update launched in September.

00:22:30   There are also complaints from users who have other kinds of displays, so it might be a bug that is affecting more than just one type of external monitor.

00:22:36   We've experimented, experienced, excuse me, this issue with a MacBook Pro running on Mac OS Tahoe and connected to a studio display.

00:22:42   And the Mac OS 626.1 and .2 updates haven't improved the situation at all.

00:22:46   In fact, the flickering seems to be getting worse in recent days.

00:22:49   I have a studio display.

00:22:50   I have never seen this, thankfully.

00:22:52   Well, you're lucky, because I've seen this story in many different places.

00:22:56   And it's just to let people know that this is a potential issue.

00:23:00   Again, most of them seem to say with the studio display it.

00:23:03   I would assume most of them are with laptops in the studio display, because let's be honest, most people have laptops, but it's hard to pin down.

00:23:09   But related to this, I just want to give an update and say I still have an update of my main machine to Tahoe, because I just don't feel any motivation to do so.

00:23:20   And I see stories like this, and I say, yeah, maybe I should wait a little bit longer.

00:23:24   I don't know, at this rate, maybe I'm just never going to run Mac OS 26, and I'll just wait for 27 or something.

00:23:31   But who knows?

00:23:31   And I'm still, by the way, I'm still running the old version of Xcode, so I can get my icons to work right.

00:23:36   So maybe I'm just frozen in time until Apple releases good versions of software that I care about.

00:23:41   Ooh, sick burn.

00:23:43   I mean, honestly, I might be right there with you with the Mac OS 26.

00:23:46   Like, you know, iOS, I'm there already.

00:23:47   You know, I kind of have to be.

00:23:49   It's fine.

00:23:50   But on the Mac, so I still have it on, like, my laptop, but not my desktop laptop.

00:23:55   And I still run into, like, weird issues with it.

00:23:58   And I just don't like it at all.

00:24:01   And I'm still, you know, still using whatever Sequoia, whatever I'm on on my Mac.

00:24:06   I'm not missing out on anything.

00:24:07   Like, there's no, I've run into nothing so far that requires me to use Tahoe on my Mac.

00:24:13   Like, so I'm kind of fine not using it.

00:24:17   And on my laptop that does run Tahoe, the other day, I had, remember a long time ago on this show,

00:24:23   I mentioned that I had a weird bug with the Apple Calendar app on the Mac,

00:24:28   that occasionally the Calendar app would be unresponsive.

00:24:32   I would force quit it.

00:24:34   Its window would stick around and nothing I did would close that window until a reboot.

00:24:41   I could move it off screen.

00:24:42   Nothing on it was interactive, but it's a window that showed my calendar content from whatever before the crash.

00:24:49   And if I launched Calendar again, it would launch a new window separate from that one.

00:24:52   So it just kind of had this, like, abandoned, unclosable, uninteractable window

00:24:56   that I would just, like, move into the corner of the screen until I rebooted next.

00:25:00   Well, that still happens on Tahoe.

00:25:02   I can confirm that happened on my Tahoe laptop the other day.

00:25:05   I still haven't rebooted.

00:25:06   It's still there on the corner.

00:25:07   And so that calendar bug has not been fixed.

00:25:12   So it's still not quite a reason for me to upgrade to Tahoe that I have found yet.

00:25:16   All right.

00:25:18   With regard to malicious content delivery in Apple Podcasts, Ricky Haas writes in,

00:25:24   starting on December 8th, my podcast app on both Mac and iPhone running Sequoia and iOS 18

00:25:28   has been opening Race Day Nation randomly for the last month or so.

00:25:31   This is not a podcast that I've listened to or I've interacted with in any way.

00:25:35   Today, my phone was sitting locked on the table when the lock screen pin came up.

00:25:38   I picked up the phone and Face ID unlocked it.

00:25:40   Lo and behold, the Race Day Nation podcast was opened up.

00:25:42   The latest episode of ATP was sitting in the playback bar, paused, where I'd stopped listening earlier.

00:25:47   I reached out to Apple Support and got an escalation.

00:25:49   The guy basically was like, we've never heard of this happening for anyone.

00:25:51   Please update to iOS 26 before we can do any further escalation.

00:25:54   If it happens again, get the timestamp.

00:25:55   We'll collect the logs from that time so we can know what was happening.

00:25:58   He was uninterested in the story that's been going around from 404 Media about Apple Podcasts

00:26:03   randomly opening podcasts by itself or in collecting logs from the occurrence that I had already logged the timestamp for.

00:26:08   Anyways, in my screenshot, which we are not going to publish, but I will describe for you,

00:26:13   you may note the back button to Firefox Focus.

00:26:16   I was watching a YouTube video and had paused it before the screen timed out and the phone locked.

00:26:19   No wacky websites to deep link into the podcast app unless Google is selling ad space that runs while the phone is locked and auto-clicks podcast links.

00:26:26   And then again, later on December 8th, quick update ever since clicking suggests less on the Race Day Nation podcast.

00:26:33   The podcast that the app opens up to has changed to Vaporware News Network.

00:26:38   It seemed unlikely to me that it was someone trying to hack my devices through the podcast app.

00:26:42   But after this change in behavior, it seems like it's just something with the recommendation system has gone awry.

00:26:47   Yeah, that's that's good evidence there is like, look, first of all, you're not touching the phone.

00:26:51   It's locked on the table and then it prompts you, hey, unlock me and you unlock it.

00:26:55   And it's like, look, how about this podcast?

00:26:57   That's super weird.

00:26:58   But it could have been who knows what it could be like the theory that like, well, you had it paused on YouTube or whatever.

00:27:03   Like you're playing a video, like it may be something in your browser opened a link or something.

00:27:07   But then in the Apple podcast app saying, please, like, suggest this podcast less less.

00:27:13   And then the next time it happens, it shows a different podcast really lends some strong evidence.

00:27:18   That is the podcast, the Apple podcast app itself that is choosing to open random podcasts.

00:27:27   Why is it doing that, especially why is it doing it when your phone is locked?

00:27:30   I have no idea, but it seems like it's not, you know, you so you were on a malicious web page and the malicious web page triggered the opening of a URL that had the Apple podcast colon slash slash, you know, whatever the scheme is for that URL structure.

00:27:46   Still a really weird story and still a really weird thing that might happen, but I guess maybe there's some code in the Apple podcast app that essentially does like open URL on a suggested podcast at inopportune times.

00:27:58   And then your phone prompts you to say, hey, we just opened a podcast, even though you're already listening to a podcast.

00:28:04   What about this one?

00:28:05   Very weird.

00:28:06   But anyway, this is the only thing we've heard about this.

00:28:09   So I don't think this is a particularly widespread, but it is strange.

00:28:11   I mean, podcast apps are hard.

00:28:14   I can't like, I can't blame, you know, obviously it's not doesn't seem like it's something malicious.

00:28:19   It does seem like just like a weird bug.

00:28:21   But look, apps like modern apps these days on iOS, especially are just super complicated.

00:28:27   There's a million different things that could, you know, cause some cause an app to open up to a content page within that app at a weird time.

00:28:36   You know, it could be something as simple as like, what if like an embed on a web page on something, you know, triggers it to open up, you know, in a weird background mode.

00:28:47   That could be some, you know, some weird case.

00:28:49   What if it's a NS user activity continuation using continuity?

00:28:54   If it's like, oh, you, you happen to have a page open on your desktop and it triggered this thing to try to open on your phone or like there's so, there's so many paths now that something can trigger something else to try to open up in the app.

00:29:08   And I can definitely see the possibility of one of those things going a little bit wrong in some kind of bug condition.

00:29:13   So, yeah, this, this seems very plausible.

00:29:16   It's a very, very complex ecosystem that all these apps are working in now.

00:29:20   So I'm sure it's just some weird bug and hopefully it'll be fixed soon.

00:29:23   In the meantime, if you want a different podcast app that has different bugs, I can strongly recommend switching to Overcast.

00:29:30   I have, I have my own bugs that people keep telling me about, but I don't have that one.

00:29:35   So give me a shot.

00:29:37   All right.

00:29:38   It seems, I guess there is like some kind of recommendation engine in Apple podcasts because this person said they did the, you know, please suggest this thing less.

00:29:46   So it's, it's not as if like that was the original theory, like, oh, something is opening, something is telling the podcast, the Apple podcast app to open a particular podcast.

00:29:53   But it seems like what's happening is it's telling the Apple podcast app, open a podcast that you recommend for me.

00:29:59   And so even, you know, but you can change which one it will recommend by saying within the Apple podcast app, I don't like this podcast, suggest it less.

00:30:06   It's like, okay, the next time something randomly tells me that I should pop up a podcast that you might like, I'll pop up a different one, but I'll still pop it up.

00:30:13   And then the 404 media story, remember, was about podcasts that had like really long, weird names and strange URLs and stuff.

00:30:21   And I don't know.

00:30:22   It's maybe these are two entirely separate bugs, but yeah, it's, it's a complicated world.

00:30:27   And it's, that's why it's so difficult to, it's one of the other things that it becomes more difficult to do these days is, uh, as the, uh, tech support for various people in our lives, they will ask you questions about why a thing happened.

00:30:37   And they're never satisfied with the answer.

00:30:39   I don't know.

00:30:41   Cause there's just, it's like, well, is there a way to know?

00:30:45   Probably not.

00:30:46   But it's a thing that we will probably never know unless we, you know, unless we have all the source code and doggedly pursue this with the, with a team of people for the next five years.

00:30:56   But that's not going to happen.

00:30:57   So the answer is, I don't know.

00:30:59   We are sponsored this episode by Zapier.

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00:32:46   There's been a lot of rumors and discussion over the last couple of months about Apple's future iPhone plans.

00:32:52   And we're going to start with a post from Mark Gurman dated mid-November.

00:32:56   Mark writes, Apple plans to unveil three new high-end models.

00:32:59   The iPhone 18 Pro, iPhone 18 Pro Max, and a new foldable in fall 2026.

00:33:03   Then roughly six months later, it'll roll out the iPhone 18, iPhone 18e, and potentially a refreshed iPhone Air.

00:33:10   I expect this pattern to continue for years to come with Apple launching between five and six new models annually.

00:33:16   The information reported that a second-generation iPhone Air had been postponed from next fall into 2027

00:33:21   in order to add a second rear camera, and that a vapor chamber and beefier battery are in the cards.

00:33:27   The news outlet also cited poor sales as a cause for the schedule change.

00:33:30   But from what I've heard, the second-generation iPhone Air hadn't actually been earmarked for next year,

00:33:35   at least not in recent months.

00:33:36   So this wasn't a delay due to the phone's sales performance.

00:33:39   The fact that Apple named the device the iPhone Air rather than the iPhone 17 Air

00:33:42   signaled that it didn't want to tie the product to an annual release schedule.

00:33:46   I'm told the main focus of the second Air will be to move to the 2-nanometer chip rather than major structural changes.

00:33:51   The chip upgrade should help improve the Air's battery life, the biggest drawback of the first model.

00:33:57   Apple developed the Air, believing it would make up 6-8% of new iPhone sales.

00:34:02   I'm told that roughly matches the performance of the iPhone 16 Plus model it replaced.

00:34:06   As for the new schedule, Apple aims to have a steadier revenue throughout the year, reduce strain on employees' manufacturing partners,

00:34:13   and prevent its premium and budget models from cannibalizing each other's marketing.

00:34:16   It also gives the company multiple chances each year to counter new releases from competitors like Samsung Electronics,

00:34:22   which has long spread out its Galaxy and foldable launches.

00:34:26   Yeah, setting aside for a moment the iPad Air stuff, which has been much debated since then,

00:34:30   going back and forth about the iPhone Air is not selling.

00:34:33   Actually, it's sold out in China.

00:34:34   Actually, they didn't make too much of it.

00:34:36   They're not going to do it next year.

00:34:37   They are going to do it back and forth.

00:34:38   Two cameras, one camera.

00:34:39   That's a separate drama.

00:34:41   I think the main big meaty chunk of this story is the idea that Apple is going to go from September being iPhone time,

00:34:49   where they roll out a bunch of phones and maybe like the SE or some other straggler or the E model in modern days will be later,

00:34:55   to a cleanly split structure, which is they roll out the Pro phones and only the Pro phones in September,

00:35:04   and then they wait six whole months, and then they roll out the non-Pro versions of those same phones,

00:35:10   the plain iPhone 18 and the iPhone 18e and maybe the Air.

00:35:13   I don't know why Air wouldn't be lumped with the Pro ones, but I guess it doesn't have Pro in the name.

00:35:17   Oh, and the foldable, whatever, that's going to be called, Ultra or whatever.

00:35:19   I'm sure we'll talk about the foldable as that data approaches.

00:35:22   There are many, many foldable rumors solidifying now, but because that's going to be so darn expensive,

00:35:28   I guess that goes with the Pro phones.

00:35:29   But what do you think about that structure of having, you know, every six months a new crop of phones,

00:35:35   but not having all the new, you know, iPhone 18s or whatever come out at the same time?

00:35:40   I don't love it, but I get it.

00:35:42   I do like that we are currently programmed that in September we will see the suite of phones that 99% of us care about.

00:35:52   And yeah, there's always the like springtime phone that's a little bit of a one-off.

00:35:55   But generally speaking, the vast majority of us care about whatever's being released in September.

00:36:02   And I don't love that there will presumably soon come a time that, okay, well, the Pro phones were just updated in September.

00:36:10   They look great.

00:36:10   But what if I don't really need a Pro phone, but I'm not sure if the regular phone has, I don't know, a vapor chamber.

00:36:16   And I really, really, really want a vapor chamber.

00:36:18   Now I've got to wait six months to figure that out.

00:36:20   And that I don't really love.

00:36:22   But certainly from Apple's perspective, it makes a ton of sense to stagger this out and not have it all hit at the exact same moment.

00:36:30   I think it's interesting.

00:36:30   I mean, I think the way that things have always been done so far with Apple, where like almost every phone is released in September, that only sounds sensible to us because that's how it's always been done.

00:36:44   But that's only how it's always been done because for a long time, there was just one iPhone every year.

00:36:50   And it wasn't, you know, once they started, then it was like, okay, well, now we're going to have the one main one and then this one that's like very similar to it, but a little bit, a little bit, you know, last year's model or whatever.

00:37:01   And then it's only been fairly recently that they've really broadened out the lineup and had a bunch of different models.

00:37:07   That's only really been like in, you know, the last, what, five to 10 years of a nearly 20-year-old product line.

00:37:14   So I think it makes sense to spread things out.

00:37:18   How they spread it out, that's up to them.

00:37:21   I'm sure they're going to experiment with it and see how it's felt.

00:37:25   But I think it is interesting that like, you know, you look at any of their other product lines, the iPhone is the only one that works this way, like where everything is all dropped at the same time every year and, you know, very reliably on that timeline as well.

00:37:37   Well, the watch too, I guess, right?

00:37:40   Oh, yeah, I guess the Apple Watch.

00:37:41   Yeah, you're right.

00:37:42   Which was a similar deal.

00:37:43   There used to be one thing called Apple Watch and they slowly diversified it.

00:37:47   That is true, but I think the Apple Watch lineup is so barely diversified at this point.

00:37:54   And it's so kind of like, half-assedly updated most of the time that I'm not sure I draw the same parallel.

00:38:01   But in many ways, it's kind of, you know, what I can see the iPhone getting to is more like what the iPad has or the Mac, where like, you know, the Mac, you'll have the 14 and 16-inch MacBook Pros will be released together.

00:38:18   But that's a different release often than the MacBook Air.

00:38:22   And those are both very important product lines that each have, that each get their time to shine, you know, because, you know, they're often released like six months apart from each other or whatever.

00:38:32   I can totally see that being the case here where like, you know, the iPhone Air and the iPhone Pro, you can, we can speculate and we have and we will about why the iPhone Air seems to not be a hit.

00:38:47   And honestly, based on this government report that says that the die shrink of the chip will, or the process shrink of the chip will solve its biggest problem of battery life, I, A, don't think it will solve it enough and B, don't think that's its biggest problem.

00:39:01   But we'll go back to that some other time.

00:39:06   But I think one of the big challenges with the iPhone Air is that it was released alongside a really good iPhone Pro update.

00:39:15   And I think a lot of people who maybe would have had a better chance of going for the Air instead went for the Pro because it had a really good set of new colors, a really good new camera system, really great new battery life.

00:39:31   If, like, if this was kind of a weaker update for the Pro, like a more kind of routine one, or if this was six months later and the Pro wasn't just updated, I think the iPhone Air would actually have sold significantly better.

00:39:45   And maybe, you know, we talk in our, you know, in the Apple analyst and related space, you know, we talk a lot about, like, that fourth slot in the lineup just never sells.

00:39:55   The one that's, like, the consumer line, but the high end of the consumer line.

00:39:59   It used to be the Plus, and now it's, or, yeah, was it the Plus?

00:40:02   I forget all the...

00:40:04   Yeah, there used to be the Plus phones, it was, like, the Max, but with the non-Max internals.

00:40:10   Max size, but non-Max internals.

00:40:11   Yeah, sorry, I was getting confused because, you know, the biggest Pro used to be called the Plus.

00:40:15   But anyway, so, you know, that slot, that kind of, like, last slot in the lineup, that has been doing poorly so far.

00:40:25   But possibly it's just because there isn't space to market it.

00:40:29   Possibly it's because it doesn't have a chance because everyone who's shopping for phones in the fall is going for the Pros.

00:40:35   But that could still be a great slot in the lineup.

00:40:39   I think the Air shows that, even though I would make different trade-offs if I was, you know, in charge of the universe.

00:40:46   I would make different trade-offs for that product than Apple did.

00:40:48   But there is a slot there.

00:40:51   But as long as it's always released alongside the Pros in the fall, that slot will only get attention if and when the Pros are really underwhelming.

00:41:01   And that's usually not the case.

00:41:03   The Pros are usually really good.

00:41:04   In some form or another, they're usually really good.

00:41:06   So, I can see this making a lot of sense.

00:41:08   And people who, you know, people who are not in the, like, the iPhone hype cycle year-round,

00:41:16   whatever has been most recently launched, they might be most aware of that.

00:41:21   So, if they release the Pro in the fall, and it gets all marketed out.

00:41:25   And, I mean, yes, Apple markets the iPhone all year round pretty much everywhere.

00:41:29   There's billboards, for God's sake.

00:41:30   But, like, the Pro right now, the Pro has been the whole fall thing.

00:41:33   There's been orange Pros all over billboards everywhere.

00:41:35   There have been ads for the iPhone Air nowhere.

00:41:40   Like, and John Gruber has been talking about this, too, since the fall, since it launched.

00:41:43   Like, Apple doesn't really seem to be advertising the iPhone Air at all anywhere.

00:41:48   It's all about the Pro.

00:41:50   You see the orange Pro ads everywhere.

00:41:52   Maybe if they spread it out, they can start splitting up that marketing more and giving each phone its time.

00:41:59   Like, when the Pro is kind of, you know, by April, everyone knows what that year's iPhone Pro looks like.

00:42:06   Like, everyone knows that year's iPhone Pro's new specs.

00:42:09   They might not all buy them immediately.

00:42:10   You know, people buy their phones when they need to buy a phone.

00:42:13   But, like, everyone knows what the iPhone Pro is by April of that year, you know.

00:42:18   So, Apple does these spring events where they, like, drop in, here's some new watch band colors and some new case colors for our gummy iPhone cases.

00:42:26   And maybe now here's a new iPhone model.

00:42:29   Like, I can see that making sense.

00:42:31   I think there's lots of reasons to do this from a marketing angle alone, not to mention the fact that, you know, everything else, you know, the supply chain, the development times, you know, there's so many other reasons.

00:42:42   Financial spread.

00:42:43   Like, there's so many other reasons to do it.

00:42:45   But from the marketing side alone, I think it's a very sound idea.

00:42:47   And that's why all of their other products work that way.

00:42:50   And it's fine.

00:42:52   I don't know if Apple is the one who instigated this tradition or if it's just kind of like a, you know, a thing that we all converged on.

00:42:59   But September is kind of the time when most of the fanciest new phones come out.

00:43:04   Like, I mean, I guess the iPhone is the biggest one in that area.

00:43:07   And I know they're spread over the year, kind of.

00:43:09   But it seems to me that a lot of sort of flagship phones are announced around that time.

00:43:14   And, you know, it makes sense to keep the pros there because, like, they're the flagship phones.

00:43:18   They're the biggest, most expensive, most powerful.

00:43:20   The foldable phone goes there, yada, yada.

00:43:21   Although I always did think it was weird that they'd choose, like, September, which is essentially too late to, like, buy phones for kids going off to school.

00:43:30   It's too late.

00:43:31   I mean, not that school systems buy phones for people, but maybe someday they will.

00:43:34   But anyway, it's like it's after the beginning of school, which is weird.

00:43:38   I would love to see some history on, like, how we ended up on this particular time.

00:43:43   But anyway, taking out the non-pro phones from that event and putting them elsewhere might, I mean, I get the idea of, like, clearing it for marketing.

00:43:52   But here's the thing.

00:43:53   The pro and the non-pro phones, the way Apple has made them so far, have been sort of a family of products.

00:44:00   And I know they have the A something and then the A something pro.

00:44:03   But those chips tend to be related to each other.

00:44:06   They're usually made on the same process or they have the same cores or whatever.

00:44:10   Like, it doesn't always happen.

00:44:12   It used to be, like, last year's chip and stuff like that.

00:44:14   But either way, like, in recent history, they've been named the same, for example, the iPhone 17 Pro and the iPhone 17.

00:44:21   And if you look at the chips that are in them and the features that they have, there's some kind of family resemblance.

00:44:27   They make some kind of a family.

00:44:30   And I say that because if you wait six months to roll out the non-pro versions of the pro phones you just came out with, especially if you don't change the naming scheme.

00:44:40   So the pro phones come out and you're like, iPhone 18 Pro, wow, look at this.

00:44:43   And there's billboards everywhere and everybody loves it.

00:44:44   It's your flagship phone and there's a foldable one, the Ultra, whatever.

00:44:47   Woo, everyone loves it.

00:44:48   Then six months later, they do a second marketing push for the non-pro phones that are also called iPhone 18.

00:44:56   And people say, that's not the new phone.

00:44:58   I saw that phone in the fall, the iPhone 18 in the fall.

00:45:01   I say, oh, no, no, that was the iPhone 18 Pro.

00:45:03   This is the iPhone 18, but not Pro.

00:45:06   And they're like, what?

00:45:06   No, it's the same number.

00:45:08   Both iPhone 18s is just like the expensive one and the cheap one.

00:45:11   Why are they advertising six months from now?

00:45:13   I think that could lead to some confusion because it's like, it's not like they're withholding it, but it almost seems like that was the iPhone 18 Pro was state-of-the-art in September.

00:45:23   Now, you're telling me the iPhone 18 is state-of-the-art six months later?

00:45:27   It looks like there's a family resemblance.

00:45:31   There's the product name that matches up.

00:45:33   Now, it maybe won't make a difference because you could argue the people who buy the non-pro phones don't know or care about any of this.

00:45:39   And as you said, they just buy a new phone when they need to get a new phone.

00:45:42   The only chance they have of delaying is if they know some tech nerd who says, oh, no, don't buy now because in one month, the new non-pro phones are coming up.

00:45:50   But otherwise, they just buy whatever's there.

00:45:51   Do you know anybody who still does that?

00:45:53   Like regular people that I interact with or that I hear from, it's always just like, oh, yeah, my phone broke.

00:46:00   I went to the store and got a new one.

00:46:01   Like there's no consultation whatsoever.

00:46:03   But the thing is, even the non-pro iPhones are pretty expensive in the grand scheme of things.

00:46:09   Oh, yeah.

00:46:10   I like it is kind of high end ish buyers.

00:46:13   I don't know.

00:46:13   Like I'm not totally against it.

00:46:15   I just think, well, maybe what might actually help is something that people wondered briefly whether Apple would do or not, which is rename the phones to have your numbers to iPhone 26.

00:46:25   You know what I mean?

00:46:26   Because then if it comes out later in the year, you're like, oh, this is the current phone.

00:46:29   26.

00:46:30   Right.

00:46:31   Or, you know, as long as it's like car model years, like it's 2025 and the 26 phones are

00:46:35   the current ones.

00:46:35   And then when you have the pro one come out and the six months later, the non-pro, they both

00:46:40   have the year number in them.

00:46:41   So they seem like they're, it's like when a car model year, like, oh, the 20, the 2026, you

00:46:47   know, Honda Civics aren't coming out until six months into the year.

00:46:50   No one cares because it's still the 2026 model.

00:46:52   I don't know.

00:46:53   I mean, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

00:46:55   I do think spreading the manufacturing has got to help because how painful must it be to

00:47:00   like ramp up on every single one of these models of phones all at the same time at the huge

00:47:06   numbers that Apple makes them in.

00:47:08   So that probably helps there.

00:47:10   But on the other hand, I wonder how this, I mean, maybe this is some kind of financial

00:47:13   maneuvering of like that big bump you would get from like phone time is now going to be

00:47:18   spread into two smaller bumps.

00:47:20   But maybe that second bump helps is going to help with some, some quarter that's traditionally

00:47:24   weak for them or something.

00:47:26   I don't know.

00:47:26   I can't even imagine what the, you know, maneuverings are there.

00:47:29   Anyway, it's a, it, it makes sense to me.

00:47:32   It makes sense to be spread out like this, but I think there are some potential downsides.

00:47:36   And for me as a tech nerd person, I'm going to be slightly annoyed in that it's, it's another

00:47:43   couple, I guess I'm not going to be buying, hopefully not going to be buying new phones for my

00:47:47   kids much longer.

00:47:48   I mean, hopefully I bought them both there.

00:47:50   Last phone that I'm ever going to buy them.

00:47:51   But you know, Oh, that's not a happy thought.

00:47:54   I'm told the kids these days, uh, sometimes don't end up, uh, you know, going out on their

00:48:00   own as, as soon as you might think they do.

00:48:02   It's like, look, I just got them both.

00:48:03   I just got them both iPhone 17s, plain iPhone 17s.

00:48:07   And for my daughter, I think that should last her four years of college because she used

00:48:10   an iPhone 12 for four years of high school.

00:48:12   So thumbs up success.

00:48:14   And for my son, this is his, you know, graduating college, uh, often to the world, you've got

00:48:21   a fancy iPhone 17 and use that for four years.

00:48:24   And hopefully four years from now, you'll be able to buy yourself your own phone.

00:48:26   We'll see how that turns out.

00:48:28   But it does mean that like, you know, new phone time requires a little bit more caution

00:48:35   and a little bit more, uh, thought about timings.

00:48:38   And, you know, anyway, I don't know.

00:48:41   I, I, I think it will probably be fine if this gives Apple leeway to, uh, to, as Marco

00:48:46   was saying, like, to like maybe give the, the more diversified phones, uh, some more breathing

00:48:53   room to sort of sink or swim on their own.

00:48:55   That'll be great.

00:48:56   Cause I've always been a proponent of diversifying the line.

00:48:59   And I don't like the idea of like, especially if they plan for it, like, that's why after

00:49:02   the iPhone launched this year, we had some, some rumor or something about manufacturing and

00:49:08   like how many phones did Apple order from the factories.

00:49:10   And they only ordered a small percentage for the airs.

00:49:13   Like, I don't remember it was six to 8%, but it was like, Apple is not shocked by how much

00:49:18   the air sold.

00:49:18   They, they tried to predict how much it would sell.

00:49:21   They told the factories to make that much.

00:49:23   And it seems like it's selling that much.

00:49:25   So it's not a surprise to them, but Apple keeps losing faith in that slot saying, Oh, we made

00:49:31   a mini phone.

00:49:31   Not enough people buy it.

00:49:32   We made a plus phone.

00:49:33   Not enough people buy it.

00:49:34   Made an air.

00:49:34   Not enough people buy it.

00:49:35   They're correctly predicting the tiny percentage of people who are going to buy that.

00:49:39   But I'm like, again, like, is that, is that the end of the world?

00:49:43   Is the phone so expensive that you can't sustain on, you know, 6% of billions of phones is

00:49:48   still a big number.

00:49:49   It's still a lot of phones.

00:49:50   So I hope they give this product line a chance.

00:49:53   And I also agree with Marco that when I read this, I thought the exact same thing.

00:49:56   Like, uh, battery life, the iPhone air is biggest problem.

00:49:59   Nope.

00:50:00   Not, I don't think it's the iPhone air's biggest problem.

00:50:03   Uh, I would say the camera is the iPhone air's biggest problem, but everyone's got their own

00:50:07   thing, but it seems like a battery life is not actually that bad.

00:50:10   But anyway, um, I guess, you know, we'll, we'll, uh, live through this together.

00:50:14   And the weird thing is like, you know, it used to be, we'd wait to September to find out what

00:50:18   the phones are like, but now just everything leaks so thoroughly.

00:50:21   Yeah.

00:50:22   People on YouTube have like, have like the only thing that is not exactly true to form about

00:50:27   the phone is that the insides of it don't exist.

00:50:29   But like, it's a, it's a perfect like scale model down to the millimeter that instead of

00:50:34   just being able to blanks, the case manufacturers do, they like manufacture when it looks like it

00:50:38   does and I guess the most things we get surprised about is exactly what the color looks like.

00:50:42   Cause we didn't know exactly what the orange would look like until we saw it.

00:50:45   Um, so anyway, well, I suspect the plain iPhone 18 will probably leak around the same time as

00:50:52   the iPhone 18 pro and then we'll just have to wait six months for the real thing to ship.

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00:52:37   iPhone double X or 20 rumors.

00:52:44   It's not going to be called 1010.

00:52:46   Yeah, I don't know.

00:52:47   I put that in there.

00:52:47   I think I've seen people talk about that.

00:52:49   But like, hey, the iPhone 10 was called iPhone capital X.

00:52:52   And it was, well, it was, was it, it was pronounced 10, right?

00:52:56   Mm-hmm.

00:52:56   What if, what if it's like 10X?

00:52:58   Oh gosh, that would be ridiculous.

00:53:00   Anyway, I mean, that's the case.

00:53:02   We'll read a second.

00:53:03   It's, it's the, that was the iPhone 10 was the 10th anniversary phone.

00:53:06   And Apple skipped over the nine, right?

00:53:10   Yeah, they released the iPhone eight and the iPhone 10, but there was no iPhone nine because

00:53:15   they wanted to get to 10 year anniversary.

00:53:18   And you know, the iPhone 10 was obviously the one with face ID and it looked very different.

00:53:21   It was a big deal.

00:53:22   So this is the idea is 10 years later, XX.

00:53:26   We shall see.

00:53:27   So Julie Clover over at Mac Rumors on the 10th of October for the 10th anniversary of iPhone

00:53:32   that came out in 2017, Apple introduced the iPhone 10 with face ID, notch and minimize bezels,

00:53:37   providing more display space than ever before.

00:53:39   The 20th iPhone anniversary is approaching and Apple wants to take the iPhone 10 design even

00:53:44   further.

00:53:44   Quick aside, it blows my mind.

00:53:48   Like I get it, but Michaela was born in January of 2018.

00:53:52   That means I was using an iPhone with, you know, the home affordance and the, you know,

00:53:58   I was using this style iPhone.

00:53:59   I was using an iPhone 10 when she was born.

00:54:01   That both feels impossible and completely right all at the same time.

00:54:05   It's just so weird.

00:54:06   I don't feel like, I mean, she's seven now, almost eight.

00:54:09   And I don't feel like I have had a, an iPhone without a home button for that long.

00:54:14   And yet I feel like I've had an iPhone without a home button forever.

00:54:17   So it's very weird.

00:54:18   Time.

00:54:18   Well, how does that work?

00:54:19   Anyways, uh, continuing from Julie, we're two years away from the 20th anniversary iPhone

00:54:23   in 2027.

00:54:23   Here are the rumors that all the rumors that we have heard so far.

00:54:26   First of all, all screen.

00:54:27   Apple supposedly working on a display that curves down around all four edges of the device for

00:54:32   a borderless visual experience.

00:54:34   Display analyst Ross Young said that Apple won't have under display face ID ready to go for

00:54:39   a 2027 iPhone, but other leakers think it's possible.

00:54:42   If Apple can't get everything under the display, we may see under display face ID and then a

00:54:46   small hole punch, a hole punch cutout on the front for the front facing camera.

00:54:50   Then in December, on December 8th, also for Mac rumors, this time, Tim Hardwick, according

00:54:55   to a Weibo account that has previously shared accurate supply chain details on China, Chinese

00:54:59   Android hardware.

00:55:01   Apple is testing the special, uh, I'm sorry, the, some very span, the fancy special glass.

00:55:06   I didn't include that little snippet, but, uh, anyway, special, some special glass is a way

00:55:10   to let true death, let the true depth systems infrared sensors pass through the panel, the

00:55:16   display panel without distortion.

00:55:17   This approach is similar to existing industry techniques that use micro perforated or nano

00:55:22   patterned glass to selectively improve IR transmission in a localized region above the

00:55:27   sensor array.

00:55:27   I may report by the information claim that the iPhone 18 pro models will have no dynamic

00:55:32   island with just a pinhole cutout located at the upper left of the display.

00:55:35   But other rumors suggest there's still going to be a dynamic island.

00:55:38   Bloomberg's Mark Gurman has also spoken of a slimmed down dynamic island for the iPhone

00:55:41   18 pro models.

00:55:42   Before I move on, any thoughts on this?

00:55:44   And by the way, the micro perforations thing, do you remember when they did that for the,

00:55:48   do they still do it?

00:55:49   I don't know, for like the power button on the MacBook pros where like there was no hole

00:55:53   to see the LED, they just took lots and lots of tiny little holes in the aluminum and the

00:55:59   light would shine through it.

00:56:00   Do you remember that?

00:56:00   Oh yeah, that was amazing.

00:56:01   Yeah, when it would like breathe and when it was suspended, which is incredible.

00:56:04   I don't remember if that was the same thing.

00:56:06   Oh my bad.

00:56:06   Marco, if the micro perforations and the breathing were simultaneous or were they

00:56:10   two separate things?

00:56:10   I think the micro perforations came after because that was, that was well within the

00:56:13   unibody era.

00:56:14   Um, but yeah, those were, it was such a cool effect.

00:56:17   Yeah.

00:56:18   It reminds me of this because like, you know, it's one of those things that looks magical

00:56:22   because if you look at it, it just looks like a piece of aluminum.

00:56:24   You can't see where part of the aluminum has a bunch of small holes in part of it.

00:56:28   Like you can't see where the light, when the light is off, you can't see where it's

00:56:31   going to be.

00:56:32   I guess if you had like a, like a microscope or maybe a magnifying glass, but with your regular

00:56:36   eyes, you couldn't see it.

00:56:38   If you knew what to look for, you could see it, but like, you'd have to be like looking

00:56:42   for it and looking right at it.

00:56:43   And you have to have really good eyes.

00:56:45   Like it was, it was, it's anyway, all this would say is that it is evidence that you can

00:56:48   put lots of tiny holes in a thing and not have the thing look like it has lots of tiny

00:56:52   holes.

00:56:52   And so that lends some feasibility credence to this idea.

00:56:56   I mean, I obviously Android phones probably already do this with all their, um, through

00:57:00   screen, uh, fingerprint readers and stuff like that.

00:57:02   But that's the idea of like, can we put a face ID sensor behind the screen?

00:57:06   So we don't have, have a notch or a dynamic island or whatever.

00:57:08   And Apple's been working on that for a long time.

00:57:10   Um, and we'll talk more about the all screen nature of this phone once we get done with

00:57:14   the whole thing.

00:57:15   But, uh, technology wise, nothing in here is completely outlandish.

00:57:19   It's just a, it's always just been a question of when will Apple be satisfied with the quality

00:57:25   of putting stuff under the screen that is currently not under the screen.

00:57:29   So that's the camera, the face ID sensor, all that stuff.

00:57:31   Um, lots of other phone manufacturers have done it, but Apple has fairly stringent standards

00:57:37   about how well all that stuff has to work.

00:57:39   So, so far they haven't done it, but maybe for iPhone X, X.

00:57:42   Has anybody done it for the camera though?

00:57:45   Cause at least like on a flagship phone.

00:57:46   Yeah.

00:57:47   I think people have done it for the camera.

00:57:48   I think part of the problem with both the camera and face ID is that it's worth, you can't

00:57:52   see as much like the camera loses light.

00:57:55   Obviously, um, there's all sorts of problems with putting stuff behind the screen.

00:57:58   So if you want the very best front facing camera, you can't have it under the screen, but you

00:58:03   know, maybe at some point, maybe they'll get to a level of quality that Apple finds acceptable.

00:58:07   Yeah.

00:58:07   I am a little curious.

00:58:08   Like I could see Apple doing it for the face ID sensor because that, you know, maybe is less

00:58:15   sensitive to like getting absolutely every bit of light.

00:58:17   But if you're going to put a camera behind a screen, you're going to reduce the amount of

00:58:22   light that will hit that sensor, um, anything you put in front of a camera, like, you know,

00:58:26   polarizing films, which would maybe be a similar kind of, kind of reduction.

00:58:30   Those reduce the light by a significant amount, like I think one or two stops and stop terms

00:58:34   usually.

00:58:34   Um, and so if the, if you're putting the camera behind the screen, it will reduce the light

00:58:40   by quite a bit.

00:58:41   That will reduce image quality.

00:58:43   And the front facing camera is really important for selfies and other, you know, so like I can

00:58:48   see that may be being tricky for, for the non foldable special phone.

00:58:55   Now in a foldable phone context, the front camera for selfies matters a lot less because

00:59:01   you can, you can use the back camera pretty easily for selfies on a foldable.

00:59:06   And that's actually one of the greatest reasons to use foldable phones, um, is you get a muck.

00:59:11   You can use the, like the good camera for selfies and like flip it around in such a way that you

00:59:16   can, you know, see yourself like that's, so anyway, assuming it has a front screen at least.

00:59:20   Um, and so that, that I can see like for the foldable being maybe a thing, but for just

00:59:26   like the, the plain, you know, if there was like a slab iPhone, you know, flagship of that

00:59:30   year, I don't know.

00:59:32   I think that's going to, that's going to be a tough sell because like you look around, like

00:59:34   even Android phones for the most part, most of them still have that whole punch style design.

00:59:39   Um, even when they can put other stuff under the screen.

00:59:43   Now, all that being said, while we're talking about face ID and putting stuff under screens,

00:59:48   Apple, please make touch ID under the screen and face ID in the same phone.

00:59:59   Because ever since, you know, we have all these rumors swirling about like the foldable might

01:00:05   just have touch ID now.

01:00:06   And everyone's now talking about this again and everyone's saying how much they hate touch

01:00:10   ID or how much they hate face ID.

01:00:12   I hate them both.

01:00:14   They both fail in lots of conditions.

01:00:16   Touch ID.

01:00:17   We know from many years, touch ID fails with things like moisture and obviously gloves.

01:00:23   Um, face ID.

01:00:25   I don't know if this is a universal thing, but this has been true for me for about the

01:00:29   last two years, uh, through two phones.

01:00:31   So I know it's not just one phone.

01:00:32   Face ID fails in sun.

01:00:35   I don't know why, but face ID seems designed not to work in the sun.

01:00:42   Well, it depends.

01:00:43   Like I forget, I forget exactly how it is.

01:00:45   I think if the face ID cameras aimed at the sun, it will almost always fail.

01:00:50   I have this happen to me occasionally and it's, it's been the case since face ID was

01:00:54   a thing in 2017 as we learned, relearned recently.

01:00:57   But, uh, but this has always been the case.

01:00:59   I think there's enough failure modes for both technologies that just the realities of them

01:01:05   mean that, you know, face ID is obviously going to have problems with certain, you know,

01:01:09   light hitting the sensor in certain ways.

01:01:11   Touch ID is going to obviously have problems with certain contact issues between the sensor

01:01:16   and your finger, whether that's water or gloves or whatever.

01:01:19   Ideally, I would love a phone, especially a flagship phone where, you know, component costs

01:01:24   might not be super substantial.

01:01:25   I would love a phone that offered both and gave you an option, even though it would technically

01:01:30   be reduced security, gave you an option to just say, read whichever one you succeeds first.

01:01:36   Like if either one of them succeeds, let me in.

01:01:38   That would be amazing.

01:01:40   Talk about like getting people excited about, about a new iPhone.

01:01:43   That would do it because then everybody who likes one of those more than the other would

01:01:48   all be happy about that phone.

01:01:50   Uh, so maybe Apple consider that assuming that you can't defeat the sun, which I've said in

01:01:56   many times, never bet against the smartphone.

01:01:58   A lot of people might also say, don't bet against the sun.

01:02:01   You kind of can't beat the sun.

01:02:03   It's, it's there whether you like it or not.

01:02:04   It's super powerful.

01:02:05   Like the smartphone, right?

01:02:06   Even Apple can't beat the sun.

01:02:08   So wait 5 billion years.

01:02:10   That sun's going down.

01:02:11   So assuming that you can't beat the sun and you can't prevent people from having wet hands

01:02:17   sometimes, like try to just embrace the imperfection of the world that you're operating in.

01:02:23   Offer both sensors and let whichever one succeeds first, let you into your phone.

01:02:27   Actually in 5 billion years, I think the sun's going to absorb the earth.

01:02:29   So I think it will win right before it loses.

01:02:31   Anyway, um, the, the under, the under screen face ID, uh, touch ID thing.

01:02:36   Obviously Android phones have had that.

01:02:37   Well, I I've just been always been assuming that the accuracy is not up to Apple's touch

01:02:41   ID standards for the under screen ones.

01:02:42   But, but the reality is like the entire Android world has been doing this forever and it's fine.

01:02:48   I think they just have lower standards for security, like in terms of how, how easy it

01:02:51   is to fool, you know?

01:02:52   Yeah.

01:02:53   But, but so, so what happens then people who have to enter their passcode a lot end up reducing

01:02:59   the security of their passcode or the more times you enter it, the more opportunities you

01:03:03   have for someone else to, to scout it.

01:03:05   Well, I mean, well, that's, that's the thing.

01:03:07   Like the lower quality under screen thing is less likely to succeed and lead to more

01:03:10   passcode entry, not less.

01:03:12   I don't know enough about how that works to say for sure, but like I've seen the passcode,

01:03:16   the, the under screen touch ID thing been be used on Android phones a lot and I've never

01:03:20   seen it fail.

01:03:20   Yeah, no, I, I just, I just think, I just think the standards are lower for the security

01:03:24   of it, but, but keep them like, I recently had to, for years I have used an alphanumeric

01:03:30   passcode.

01:03:31   It's just like a password on my phone.

01:03:32   And in the last couple of years I've had to enter my passcode.

01:03:36   So many times that I finally was like, screw it.

01:03:41   I'm going back to a number.

01:03:41   And so I actually had to reduce my passcode security because now I'm on a number, which

01:03:47   is, you know, not, not only like, you know, just less entropy there than, than a passphrase

01:03:52   or a password, but also as I'm typing it in, I think it's easier for people to spot what

01:03:57   it is.

01:03:57   If it's looking over my shoulder.

01:03:58   Yeah, for sure.

01:03:59   It is.

01:03:59   But I've had to do that because it is just so it's asking me so often for my passcode in

01:04:06   the last year or two.

01:04:07   Now, you know, look, look on a global scale.

01:04:10   Like how many people do you know whose passcode is like one, two, one, two, because they are

01:04:15   just themselves so tired of, of entering it constantly.

01:04:18   They make it something really simple like that.

01:04:20   And then anybody who's ever around them for more than an hour, we'll see them enter their

01:04:23   passcode at some point.

01:04:24   Like that's so common.

01:04:26   If face ID and touch ID are so strict that they are causing a lot of lockout, that people

01:04:33   are having to enter their passcode a lot all the time.

01:04:36   It's like when you make password requirements so strict, people write it down on a post-it

01:04:39   note next to the computer.

01:04:40   It's the same version of that for the phone.

01:04:42   Like if you make the phone super strict with their security and causes a lot of, you know,

01:04:46   lockouts, they're just going to switch to simpler passcodes that will overall reduce

01:04:51   their security.

01:04:52   So it is better if you can, if you can find a way to offer people secure entry that doesn't

01:04:57   fail so often and lock them out so often, that is generally better.

01:05:01   I think the face ID problem is probably just basically dynamic range of like the, the IR

01:05:06   that it is emitted and bounced off your face.

01:05:07   It has to be able to see that, right?

01:05:09   And so if you're, if you're a face or the sensor being blasted by the full light of the

01:05:13   sun, can you pick out the infrared dots that are there?

01:05:17   Cause there's infrared light coming from other places.

01:05:18   I don't, I don't know what the problem is with the, uh, with the sun.

01:05:21   I haven't actually experienced that, but I don't doubt that it happens.

01:05:23   You never go in the sun.

01:05:24   Yeah, I do occasionally.

01:05:25   But anyway, um, your, your real problem here, Marco is this.

01:05:28   Well, so as setting aside the security things and when, when are these things up to Apple

01:05:32   standard?

01:05:32   And the other part of that is how much does Apple really, really, really want to have

01:05:37   an all quote unquote, all screen iPhone X, X, whatever.

01:05:41   Um, maybe they'll, that will motivate them to lower their standards and make the thing

01:05:45   or whatever.

01:05:45   Um, but the real problem is Apple's cheapness.

01:05:49   They won't put both face ID and touch ID because it would cost them more money.

01:05:54   And cause they're going to be like, can't we just pick one?

01:05:57   I mean, just look at how long they've taken them to not put face ID on the Mac, which is

01:06:00   a much more expensive thing that has a much more controlled environment.

01:06:03   A lot of the time, depending on laptops, blah, blah, blah.

01:06:05   So I think that like, even if the technology exists to do both of them, Apple's inclination

01:06:12   for the entire history of the phone has been absolutely, we'll, we will not do both of them.

01:06:17   We will do one or the other.

01:06:18   Look at the iPads.

01:06:19   They do one or the other.

01:06:20   They don't do both.

01:06:21   They could do both on the iPad right now, but they do not, uh, you know, obviously side

01:06:25   button, not under screen.

01:06:26   Um, and there's, you know, room is, there's not a lot of room for, I don't know how much

01:06:30   room the under screen one takes up, but it's probably non-zero.

01:06:32   Uh, the other problem you have Marco is that if, and when they actually do this, John Turner

01:06:37   takes over, fixes everything, touch ID and under screen, uh, under screen, touch ID and

01:06:41   face ID and all the phones, yada, yada.

01:06:43   Uh, there's a tiny window when this will be useful to you because according to my parents,

01:06:47   touch ID doesn't work for old people.

01:06:49   Yeah.

01:06:50   You've talked about this because their fingerprints, because their finger skin is too loosey goosey.

01:06:55   They absolutely cannot or could not use touch ID across many, many devices in many, many years.

01:07:01   I don't know if this is just them.

01:07:02   They claim it's all old people, but there's only a matter of time, Marco, before touch ID

01:07:06   becomes useless to you, according to my parents.

01:07:08   So you, you, you got to hope is a turnover in Apple leadership, a change in attitude about

01:07:13   picking one authentication device and only one authentication device for a device and then rolling that

01:07:18   out before your finger has become too old and saggy to use touch ID.

01:07:22   I mean, hopefully I have, I'm only 43.

01:07:25   Like hopefully I have a little while before that.

01:07:28   I'm 37, not old.

01:07:31   I'm 37.

01:07:31   I don't know what that's from.

01:07:32   Nope.

01:07:32   Nothing.

01:07:33   Oh, I think maybe understanding how long it will take Apple to have a change of heart about

01:07:36   this.

01:07:37   All right.

01:07:38   Coming back to the iPhone double X, uh, display.

01:07:42   Apple is planning to use a brighter, thinner OLED panel for the 20th anniversary of the

01:07:46   iPhone.

01:07:46   Rumors suggest that Apple will adopt Samsung OLED displays with color filter on encapsulation

01:07:51   or COE technology.

01:07:53   COE displays remove the polarizing film from an OLED panel, applying the color filter directly

01:07:57   onto the encapsulation layer, uh, layer of the display.

01:08:00   Reflections are harder to deal with when there's no polarizing film.

01:08:04   But in this year's iPhones, Apple added a new anti-reflective coating that could be improved

01:08:07   for future versions of the, of the iPhone with deeply curved edges.

01:08:11   Apple also plans to add a crater shaped light diffusion layer that will provide uniform brightness

01:08:15   across the display.

01:08:17   All right.

01:08:18   So these, these whole kind of like curved around the edge kind of displays.

01:08:23   Is this a good idea?

01:08:25   Like I know, I know Samsung phones have done this for a million years and they stopped doing

01:08:30   it.

01:08:30   I already have occasional challenges with accidental input as bezels of everything have

01:08:38   shrunk, you know, and, and I, I'm not going to argue that the bezels on the iPhone should

01:08:42   get thicker because I know it looks really great the way it is now.

01:08:45   And that's true.

01:08:46   And, and, you know, people do buy these things based on looks to, to a large degree, but every

01:08:51   time the bezels shrink, I have more accidental input around the screen edges.

01:08:57   And, and obviously the phone has software to try to detect that and kind of try to reject

01:09:02   certain ones of those with that also just, you know, makes it so that input is less reliable

01:09:06   when those, when those systems are active.

01:09:07   And so that's not great either.

01:09:08   Also phone cases exist.

01:09:12   When you say you have accidental input around the edges, I think you're describing what

01:09:18   I've noticed, which has been bad for a long time, but it's gotten worse for me in the last

01:09:22   year or two.

01:09:22   I don't know how to describe this in an eloquent way and it would be easier if I had a visual

01:09:27   aid, but I feel like my palm meat on my hands is like hitting the very edges of the display

01:09:33   and doing like button activations and stuff.

01:09:35   And it's driving me freaking bonkers.

01:09:38   And it wasn't until you said something that it occurred to me, I wonder if it is because

01:09:41   the bezels are so darn thin now.

01:09:43   Yes, that definitely happens.

01:09:44   Now, historically, the iPhone has been a little smart about it.

01:09:47   So I, I don't think I've ever had confirmation on this, but the way I, the way I think it works

01:09:52   just based on observation is I think when you wake up the phone, if any part of your palm

01:10:00   or hand is touching an edge, I think it's, it just ignores that area until the next time

01:10:05   the phone is, is slept or changed in some way.

01:10:08   So it does kind of like automatic rejection of things that are like that, like we're touching

01:10:13   when you turned it on.

01:10:14   But sometimes that also means in those areas like our dead zones until you sleep and wake

01:10:21   up the phone again.

01:10:21   Like, so when you do want to interact with those areas, if you lift up whatever palm is touching

01:10:25   it and poke it with a finger, sometimes I've had that not work until I slept the phone

01:10:29   and woke up.

01:10:29   So I don't know if that's an application layer bug or if that's like the, if the phone

01:10:33   is doing that, like at the kind of like the screen touch driver kind of level, I don't

01:10:37   know.

01:10:37   But that's always been, I, I've always observed that on iPhones and I don't know if, if I'm

01:10:42   characterizing it correctly or not, but that's, that seems like what it's doing.

01:10:45   But as the phone bezels have gotten smaller, especially as you don't use a case, this is extra

01:10:52   noticeable.

01:10:52   And it's, it's like, I notice it when I've been using a case for a while and then I switch

01:10:58   back to not using a case.

01:10:59   I notice I have a lot more of that kind of either accidental input or inadvertent like

01:11:05   input lockout around the edges.

01:11:07   So it is definitely a thing.

01:11:09   And again, whether the specifics are actually working that way, I don't know.

01:11:12   Hopefully somebody at Apple can write in and tell us.

01:11:15   But as you shrink the bezels, you create more problems like this.

01:11:18   Now, you also create a big problem of not, not only are you going to be touching these

01:11:24   parts of the screens inadvertently as you hold the phone, but since so many people, I would

01:11:30   say probably the majority by, by a long shot, uh, use cases with their phones.

01:11:36   How do you design a case to attach and wrap around a phone's edges if the edges are screen

01:11:44   content?

01:11:44   And I think the answer probably is you just ignore it.

01:11:48   You cover as little as you can and you hope the software doesn't put anything useful there.

01:11:51   And probably the software wouldn't put anything useful there.

01:11:54   So what I'm sure, you know, in, in iOS terms, it would be in the safe area and apps would,

01:12:00   you know, be in set with all their content would be in set around, uh, you know, to be pulled

01:12:04   in from the safe area.

01:12:05   Right now we have that on top and bottom and we would just have it on all four sides, which

01:12:10   liquid glass is obviously made to, to account for and to accommodate.

01:12:15   So what we would be adding in this situation is basically blurry background content wrapping

01:12:23   around a part of the phone that your hand is covering or a case is covering largely.

01:12:28   So why, what's the point?

01:12:33   Why, why would we do that if what we're really going to be filling it with is blurry background

01:12:39   colors that most people won't even see?

01:12:41   You'd ask the same questions about liquid glass.

01:12:45   And we have no answer there either.

01:12:46   Um, and what was the part of the, uh, Android, I don't know if it's just Samsung, but part

01:12:50   of the Android phone, uh, version of this, there's like the waterfall edge with the screen actually

01:12:55   curves around the side of the thing.

01:12:57   There was some notion, especially early on of putting content essentially on the side of

01:13:03   your phone, like text or words or things along the edge that you could read from the side

01:13:07   because it wrapped around so much in some of those phones that you could look at the phone

01:13:10   from the side and see screen.

01:13:13   And I, I think I saw at least one ad that was like, and look, you can put content there.

01:13:17   You'll be shocked to learn that.

01:13:19   I'm pretty sure that did not catch on.

01:13:20   It's an awful idea.

01:13:22   And it does like in, in marketing, it does look cool.

01:13:26   It looks cool in person too.

01:13:28   Yeah.

01:13:28   You can imagine like if your phone is face down on a desk or table, you could maybe have

01:13:32   the edge show you like one line of text and yeah, you can, no one did or it could light

01:13:38   up on the edge more easily and like project out light from the edges and do a little path.

01:13:42   There's lots of fun things that you could do with it.

01:13:43   But like until these funds levitate in front of us, we have to grab it with something.

01:13:48   And the part that we, we're going to end up covering up parts of the screen.

01:13:51   Like I think that the, and these are still just rumors, but I think the, the main thing

01:13:57   against this design is that despite all the things we're saying about it, it's been tried.

01:14:03   It's been done.

01:14:05   It did not catch on.

01:14:07   Like the market essentially said, nah, not interested.

01:14:11   And it's not because there was like some other mitigating factor where there was a big powerful

01:14:15   company saying we don't like that or whatever.

01:14:17   It was some of the biggest Android phone manufacturers did it and it was not popular enough for them

01:14:25   to keep doing it.

01:14:26   Now, maybe when Apple does it, everyone will copy them again because people will copy Apple

01:14:30   whatever matter what they do.

01:14:31   Right.

01:14:32   So maybe this will give a resurgence in this type of thing, but yeah, it's very much like

01:14:37   the liquid glass stuff.

01:14:37   It's like someone thinks this is going to be a cool idea, but practically it's not good and

01:14:45   it has lots of impractical effects.

01:14:46   we should keep reading this because there's, there's more, you brought up cases and there's

01:14:49   a little bit of that at the end here too, but like as we, as the shape, the rumored shape

01:14:55   of this iPhone X, X, uh, comes into view, it starts to seem very strange.

01:15:00   All right.

01:15:02   Solid state buttons reading from a different post on Mac rumors.

01:15:05   Apple is developing a solid state button system as a wholesale replacement for the device's

01:15:08   traditional mechanical buttons as per a Weibo account.

01:15:11   Back in 2022, several reports suggested Apple intended to bring solid state buttons to the iPhone

01:15:16   15 pro in 2023 as part of project Bongo.

01:15:18   However, the plan was before reportedly canceled at a late stage.

01:15:23   They were then rumored to come up to the iPhone 16 pro, uh, because before being shelved indefinitely,

01:15:29   according to the leaker, Apple solid state button design has completed functional verification and

01:15:33   includes haptic feedback for the side button, volume buttons, action button, and camera control

01:15:37   control button.

01:15:38   Yeah.

01:15:38   So now we're, this is a, an all screen phone, which if you believe the maximal rumors, it

01:15:43   doesn't even, you know, everything is under the screen.

01:15:45   The screen wraps around all the edges.

01:15:47   There's no bezels at all.

01:15:49   It's no buttons on it because everything is a solid state button with haptic feedback.

01:15:53   Camera.

01:15:54   Apple might adopt a camera sensor using low fic or lateral overflow integration capacitor

01:15:59   for a better dynamic range.

01:16:00   This would join improvements rumored for the iPhone 18 models, like a variable lens aperture.

01:16:04   The upgraded sensor would be able to capture up to 20 stops of dynamic range.

01:16:09   Low fic enables each pixel to store varying amounts of light based on scene brightness.

01:16:13   This allows a sensor to capture detail in both bright highlights and dark shadows within

01:16:17   a single frame.

01:16:18   According to an account on the Korean language, never blog, Chinese manufacturers, including

01:16:23   honor, Xiaomi, and Huawei plan to adopt low fic, low fic technology in their 2026 flagship

01:16:29   smartphones using new to Sony sensors while Oppo and Vivo are developing low fic equipped

01:16:34   models for release next year.

01:16:35   This is the one part of the iPhone 20 rumor.

01:16:38   That's just a straight up better cameras.

01:16:41   Good.

01:16:41   I like the idea of like this new sensor type.

01:16:43   Like letting it not do like two exposures at different, uh, you know, they're doing a

01:16:48   dark exposure and a light exposure to combine them, but some, you know, it has a wide enough

01:16:51   range.

01:16:51   You can do a single exposure.

01:16:52   So that's cool.

01:16:53   If that ends up being the case, um, and a variable aperture, again, that's been rumored

01:17:00   for a while.

01:17:01   I'm not sure if phones are already shipping with that, but that, what that means is that

01:17:04   a little tiny mechanical thing that makes a whole bigger and smaller inside the camera

01:17:08   exists.

01:17:08   That's not how any past iPhone cameras work.

01:17:11   That's how big cameras work.

01:17:13   You can change the aperture.

01:17:14   That would be a useful thing, but boy, stuff is tiny in there.

01:17:18   Like, I'm not sure how they would pull this off, but that would sure be neat.

01:17:21   Uh, and it would, it definitely give you a lot of flexibility and camera apps to do some

01:17:26   stuff that you can't do as easily right now.

01:17:28   Although honestly, just to get enough, uh, light on the sensor, it'd probably be wide open

01:17:32   almost all the time anyway.

01:17:33   But this all sounds cool.

01:17:35   So this is like the one thing that run rumor that I hope is true and that I don't think

01:17:39   there's anything bad about it.

01:17:41   Yeah.

01:17:41   That's honestly, if they can, if they can achieve that dynamic range increase on the sensor,

01:17:47   that's huge.

01:17:48   That matters a lot in all photography and especially in phone photography where you, you know, you

01:17:55   often don't have time to worry too much about the exposure of whatever you're shooting in

01:18:00   it or the highlights going to blow out.

01:18:01   Like, no, you just take your phone out, boom, shoot.

01:18:03   And right now phones are already and have been for some time way better than professional

01:18:09   cameras at that particular scenario of like, I have a scene with a wide dynamic range happening

01:18:16   here and I want to shoot something reliably that's going to be good and properly exposed and not

01:18:20   blown out, uh, you know, with very little effort and very little time right now, phones are better

01:18:26   are best at that because what they usually do is take a quick burst of like, you know, three

01:18:32   to five or whatever, you know, however we are up to these days, quick shots all in a row

01:18:37   and they merge them together into like a merged HDR image.

01:18:40   Well, if this, if this center technology advancement does what is promised here and allows that

01:18:47   same level of dynamic range possibly to be captured in a single frame and therefore be captured

01:18:53   in every frame, that's a significant improvement that can help things like sharpness because when

01:19:00   you capture three quickly in a row, you, you know, things might have moved during that time, you have

01:19:04   to kind of account for that. Like there's all sorts of ways that can, that can play out in, in very

01:19:08   positive ways. So if that is true and if that works very well, that alone, that dynamic range

01:19:14   improvement, that's a significant improvement for much of photography, much of the time.

01:19:19   All right. And then probably to wrap up for today, Apple's exploring touch, touch sensitive layers built

01:19:27   into official iPhone cases, reading from Mac rumors from mid November. According to a known Weibo based

01:19:32   leaker, Apple is looking to make protective cases for its pro models that directly integrate touch

01:19:36   based sensor layers. The leaker provided no further details, but there are some clues to be found in

01:19:41   previous research conducted by Apple. A patent application filed by the company in 2024 describes

01:19:46   a case with input for an electronic device and outlines a protective iPhone case designed to act as an input

01:19:53   service rather than the rather than passive shielding. The patent also details how the case communicates

01:19:59   with the device using identification and signal transfer through interfaces such as NFC. Some versions also

01:20:05   include provisions for biometric input, allowing a touch ID fingerprint sensor in the case to unlock features

01:20:09   in the phone, for example. What makes the idea more timely is that Apple is said to be pursuing a radical

01:20:15   redesign for its 20th anniversary iPhone with a display that curves around around all four edges

01:20:20   of the device. This approach could leave almost no room for mechanical buttons. Indeed, there have been

01:20:26   reports that Apple may shift to solid state capacitive layers on the anniversary model, enabling a visually

01:20:30   uninterrupted design that could make an interactive case a natural companion.

01:20:35   So I think this, I'm thinking of this as iPhone XX because it is so much like the iPhone X, which had a big capital X, which was a complete departure from the phone design that had existed basically since the original iPhone, having a screen, a home button, and just like that whole thing of saying, you know, the iPhone X is going to be, it's like the future. It's all screen. I mean, the iPhone X was essentially all screen. And the notch is there. Previously, we hadn't cut out any portion of the screen. And it seemed very strange that they did that. And it was all, you know, we didn't know if we were going to get used to it. And obviously, it's the

01:21:05   dynamic island now, but like, they're going to go all screen. But I think as I said, when they rolled out the iPhone X, it's that Apple does not want this notch to be there. It's just it has to be there now. But when they can get rid of it, they will. So here's the rumor, they're going to go all screen again. Now the iPhone X was not a sure thing when it was released because it was so different. And yes, sometimes the home buttons broke, but touch ID was in the home button, which was a very amazing transition of like, you know how we've had this button on our phone?

01:21:35   Well, you're putting your finger there anyway. Guess what? We're going to put the fingerprint sensor and like, there's no way that can work. And wow, it did. And like, it was so natural. You take the phone out of your pocket, you press the button, your thumb is already on there. It reads touch ID. So synergistic. And the iPhone X just threw all that away. Nope. No home button. No, whatever we call that chin on the phone where the home button was, which was a region of the phone that you could touch and know you weren't going to mess with the screen. That was very big because that's where the home button was. That's all gone too. And in its place is face ID. It's going to read my face. Does it work in the dark? Can I fool it?

01:22:05   With a photograph? Can I fool it with a mannequin's head? Do you remember all that conversation? And the upshot was that the iPhone 10, I think was just a triumph. Like that way of making phones has proven to be better.

01:22:18   There are trade-offs with all these things, but the, the, since the iPhone 10, every iPhone has been like that and it's been a hit. We use them. We like them. Yes. Some people wish touch ID was still there, especially in the early years. People complained about it, but net net billions of consumers with billions of iPhones have decided that design with no button on it. I mean, Michaela, as you just noted, has never lived in a world without that design. That's just what phones are like to modern people is the iPhone 10 design of just, it's a screen.

01:22:46   It's got some portion of it cut out because we got stuff that, you know, cameras and sensors or whatever. Uh, you, uh, you unlock it by looking at it. You flick up on the thing. Like that worked this iPhone X, X thing, which is like, okay, it's like the iPhone 10, but like the screen goes even more around.

01:23:05   And we don't have any room for any buttons anymore. And everything is solid state. I don't know what this is bringing me that like, like the iPhone 10 brought a different set of trade-offs that I think are better for me. And for most people, this brings a whole bunch of new compromises in exchange for being cool.

01:23:28   See also iPhone air. Yeah. Do I get more, I guess I get a little bit more screen. Like I like the idea of gettering in the notch of the dynamic Allen. Cause that does cut into your image. Like there's parts of your screen. You can't use cause there's no pixels there.

01:23:41   Especially if you're watching like landscape video, it has to either, you know, you're either missing some of the picture or it's going to shrink up or like depending on the aspect ratio, what you're watching, yada, yada. Right. But like, that's, Oh, that's clearly been a compromise. So I'm, I'm all for getting rid of that.

01:23:55   But every other change described here, we need the screen to wrap around the edges for similarly stupid reasons to the stupid things we did in liquid glass that there's no, there's no benefit to that. Right. And there's lots of problems, but now we can't have buttons.

01:24:09   Let's make all the buttons haptic. Eh, I mean, the camera control has not been a huge hit. And even that is a physical button that goes in and out, despite all it's like other stuff that it has in it.

01:24:19   I'm not entirely against haptic buttons because they did it with the home button and it was actually really great, but I'm not clamoring for them either. And maybe there's a failure rate that I don't know about on the things like, um, and then this rumor about the, the, the touch sensitive things being put into phone cases.

01:24:37   They're saying like, okay, so if the buttons are like haptic and touch sensitive, are they kind of like the camera control and that case manufacturers have to do a thing that transfers the fact that you're touching it?

01:24:49   I mean, the only reason they needed it for the camera control is because of the swipey stuff. Cause again, the camera control literally does physically move in and out. So they don't need it for the button press, but now case manufacturers have to be involved to deal with these haptic buttons.

01:25:02   And then the other part of this, the other hopeful part is based on a patent, which means you can probably just forget it. Cause you know, Apple patents, everything doesn't mean they're ever going to ship it, but it does hint at a design that again, other phones have done in the past, which is like, how about don't put the touch thing on the screen and also don't try to jam it on the side.

01:25:21   Like they do on the iPads because there's not a lot of room there, but you got the whole back of the phone. Couldn't you put a fingerprinty thing there? And it's like, yeah, but what about people with cases? Well, if you have this magical case, they could transfer the thing through and yada, yada, whatever. Like you have a lot of leeway to do fingerprint sensing on the back of a phone with some flexibility.

01:25:41   Now it's harder to aim on the screen. You can say, please put your finger here. People put their hands in different places. Like, I don't really believe this rumor, but at least if that was part of the iPhone 20 rumor that they're going to put touch ID in the back and face ID in the front, then I would be like, okay, well now, now I'm getting something because we have the touch ID or we have the, you know, the home button error.

01:26:02   Then we have the touch ID error. Then we had the face ID error. And then the third error would be touch ID and face ID, but the touches on the back or maybe the touches on the back on the front or whatever. But like this, this idea of a, so I keep picturing it as like kind of a lozenge shaped phone that is like more than 50% screen. The screen wraps around all the edges and it's just, it's everywhere. And like, it doesn't appeal to me in a, in a, like, I was nervous about the iPhone 10, but it turned out great.

01:26:30   I am nervous about this phone now if it is as rumored and I'm less confident that it's going to turn out great. So we'll see. But it just, I just, the whole reason this thing is in here is because I'm like 20th anniversary phone. I'm not, I'm not excited for it. I'm excited for the camera, but you can put that on like a quote unquote normal phone. Like, and we'll, we'll see. Like, again, I, I felt like I had the exact same, I would have had the exact same attitude had I known more about the, uh, the iPhone 10 before it was released and it turned out great, but I'm, I'm not optimistic about this right now.

01:26:59   I mean, I don't know. I think I am cautiously optimistic. It sounds like it'll be really, really, really cool, but the iPhone air is to me very cool. And there is no chance. I'm going to run that as a daily driver. There's not enough battery, certainly not a good enough camera just for me. Uh, uh, and I know, uh, several of our friends are really loving it and I am genuinely happy for them. Not for me though. And I wonder if this will be a similar situation.

01:27:26   Well, this doesn't have any of those compromises though. Like this is going to be like, you know, it's a flagship phone. It's going to have all the cameras, all the tech, all the battery. It's not going to be super duper thin. Like there's the folding phone, you know, thing for that. Like it just, this just seems like, like the iPhone 10. It's like the flagship phone. It's the, got the most of everything in it. It's the fastest processor. It's the best cameras. It's the most cameras. It's the most pixels. It's the most screen. It's the most technology. It's just, I guess it's mostly the, the wraparound screen and the haptic buttons.

01:27:54   Because I think right now are bad ideas. Now I can't say that, but I haven't seen them. Maybe they're actually great because I would have said that the home button, the haptic home button was also a bad idea. But by the end of the haptic home button, I liked it better than the regular home button. So it's hard to predict how these things are going to go wraparound screen. A little bit more confident with, like I said, because it has been done before. And it's not like, oh, they didn't do a good job with it, but Apple will do a good job.

01:28:16   I think they did as good a job as you could do with the wraparound screen. Like it was a screen that wrapped around. And then it's just a new place for you to break your phone, by the way, Casey, because now when you drop it and if it's on the edge, you can, you can crack the screen from the edge too.

01:28:27   Yep. Thought about that immediately.

01:28:30   No, I definitely think like the, the, if this, if it would rely on like all of these special case considerations, that's going to make it a no go for so many people because like, how many people do you see using third party cases? It's almost everyone.

01:28:46   Oh, like you said, they'll just cover it up. I bet they'll just cut third party cases. We'll just cover up all that side screen.

01:28:51   Well, cause you, cause otherwise how, like what people buy cases for protection. Yeah. It's yeah. You have to protect everything about the phone, including all of the edges. That's why much to John Chagrin, they all have, you know, closed bottoms now because everybody wants protection edge to edge. Cause that's what most people need. Uh, so like I could see that being a problem, but I think though, you know, if we can, I can see why this could end up being really weird and bad. I don't think it will.

01:29:18   I think they're going to succeed in making something that is really cool. My question though is, you know, again, like what Casey was saying with the iPhone air, the iPhone air looks cool. Um, but people are not choosing it in large numbers. Why? Because people tend to have one phone for a pretty long time and they need to serve them everywhere and do everything for them and always be ready and be able to, to take on whatever choice.

01:29:48   challenge they might find in their lives. They might find in their lives during the few years. They're going to have that phone. So people don't buy weird convertible phones. They buy SUV phones because they want something that's going to, you know, do everything for them all the time.

01:30:01   The iPhone air is really cool in certain ways, but made some really big trade-offs. And most people are not choosing the phone that made those trade-offs with this rumored iPhone 20. We don't actually know what the trade-offs are necessarily. Like, you know, we can, we can guess it's probably going to be the flagship high-end phone.

01:30:23   So it's not going to have like, you know, severe cost constraints. Um, it's probably going to not be the absolute thinnest, although I would say they're probably going to try to make it very thin, but you know, other things can fall out of that. So for instance, as you make the phone thinner, well, do you include the camera bump in that? If so, you're going to reduce the camera quality. That is a big problem for people. Are you going to reduce the battery capacity? That's a big problem for people. As we see with the air, are you going to maybe make the speakers not as good?

01:30:53   That's a big problem for people. There's a lot like every, everything that is made worse about the phone in exchange for whatever is making it cool is going to lop off parts of the market that would have bought that phone, but now won't. How many chunks are you going to lop off and how big are they? That's the question.

01:31:12   The iPhone air lopped off some really big ones. And that's why not a lot of people are choosing to buy it. Um, but this might be a different set. Hopefully, hopefully it's a less extreme set and maybe the wraparound screen. Maybe that's just like a really minor little detail that most people don't really notice. Most of the time is covered up in cases. And it turns out it doesn't matter at all.

01:31:33   Yeah. Maybe it doesn't wrap around as much as those old Android phones did. Maybe it like, maybe it's essentially, it doesn't wrap around at all, but essentially it's like zero bezel.

01:31:41   Right. And, or maybe it wraps around like, you know, a couple of millimeters into the edge, but like, it's not like you wouldn't necessarily be able to read something on the side.

01:31:49   Yeah. Like that. You wouldn't see it from the edge. Like, again, this is hard to tell with rumors until we start getting like case designs. Because that, that I feel like is the most difficult one. The haptic buttons, as I, as I think we discussed with the 15 pro, they were going to do like the haptic volume buttons, or it's just one thing. I mean, that could work again. They have the history of the home button making it work, but complications in case design, like the, it hasn't been terrible with the whole thing with like camera control with the cutouts and then take case manufacturers taking a while to have the pass through. It was just a little bit of an annoyance. So I guess there's that transition period. I mean, if you're

01:32:19   remember with the iPhone 10, the thing about the iPhone eight that was released alongside it was it still had the home button. So Apple was hedging its bet saying we got this new thing. But if you don't like, like to Marco's point, if you look at this and you feel like it's making trade out, so you don't agree with, we do have the old thing that you're used to over there. But I feel like when they ran that experiment, they were like, Oh no, 10, 10 is the way to go. And so from that point on, it was like, I mean, they kept around touch ID phones for a while or whatever, but it was like full steam ahead. Like our mainline flagship phones are going to be iPhone 10.

01:32:48   ish phones from now on. And they never looked back. And I'm assuming they want that to happen as well. So maybe the, uh, the version I'm conjuring in my head that has like the worst possible wraparound screen and like the worst possible haptic buttons is not realistic for Apple who thus far has not really screwed up a flagship phone, especially not a radical red ground. There's only been a couple of radical redesigns of the phone, I guess.

01:33:11   There's what the iPhone four. Uh, I mean, there's been a bunch of ones. There's the, the, the four, the, the, the six, the bendy six, uh, then I guess the 10 and I guess 20 would be the next one. They haven't really screwed it up too badly ever. And they usually do a good job. So I should give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just a little bit nervous about it.

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01:35:33   Let's do some ask ATP and Tyler Kindy writes, how do you all manage your contacts to use Apple's contacts app or a different one? Do you sync your contacts using iCloud, your email provider or some other service?

01:35:45   Do you tend to keep your contacts up to date with current addresses, birthdates, etc. Or just keep it at the bare minimum? For me, I use the contacts app. Well, I only ever access it on the phone via the phone app. But on the Mac, I'll use the contacts app.

01:36:00   Anyways, I store everything in there. I sync via iCloud. And that seems to work pretty well for me. Amongst my friends, both online and in real life, I am the weirdo that keeps track of any date I can get my hands on any address I can get my hands on because you never know when you need it. So I will put birthdays in there. I'll put anniversaries in there if I know them just because sometimes it's nice to know that information. So you can tell someone happy anniversary and they're like, what? Weirdo? Oh, thanks.

01:36:28   Anyways, but no, I am a pack rat when it comes to many digital things, including contact information. And iCloud works just fine for me. Let's go to Marco next, please. Marco, what do you do?

01:36:38   So first of all, whenever Casey wishes me a happy anniversary, I never think, what a weirdo. I always think, damn it, I wish I was as good of a person as Casey.

01:36:49   Oh, that's very kind of you. But I think I'm dancing right on the line between weirdo and considerate. So you all can decide.

01:36:57   That's like Casey and Casey is also almost always the first person that you see online wishing people a happy birthday on that.

01:37:05   That's because I wake up.

01:37:07   Whether it's in Slack or on, you know, back in the old days, it was on Twitter or, you know, now a mess. Like Casey's always right there. First thing in the morning. Happy birthday. So and so.

01:37:18   So it's wonderful being in Casey's world because he wishes everyone happy, everything. And he makes us all wish we were as nice as him. Okay. Now that's how I manage my contacts.

01:37:28   I have been using Apple's contacts app for a very long time. iCloud syncing, once it became available, has been fine for me. I think I even used mobile me syncing before that. And I think that was fine, too.

01:37:40   It was not fine.

01:37:42   For me, I'm saying. I know for a lot of people it was not. But for me, it's been fine. I don't think I've ever caught a sync bug with the contacts app.

01:37:52   I do, as mentioned a couple after years ago, I do wish they would add an archive status on contacts or something similarly equivalent so that I wouldn't need all of the people I have ever known to be one accidental tap or search away from accidentally calling in a weird way.

01:38:08   I would love that concept. But barring that, it's been fine. As for how I keep things current, back when my wife and I used to send out Christmas cards, like seasonal Christmas cards every year, whenever I'd get somebody's new address, I'd put it in their contact card.

01:38:28   But we kind of ran out of time and stopped doing that a few years ago. And ever since then, I've kind of been like, well, I don't know where anybody lives.

01:38:34   As long as people didn't move, I still have their address. But if you moved in the last year, I don't know where you'd live. But it's fine. And birthdays, I try to keep track of the ones that are close to me. It's a very short list. And I don't need to keep track of that many because Casey does it for me.

01:38:53   You're welcome. This is a service I provide. John, what do you got?

01:38:56   I use Apple's contacts. I use iCloud syncing with it. I try to keep it mostly up to date. Birthdays, I don't think I keep a lot of birthdays in there. I don't know. I'm trying to kind of do demand page birthday stuff when I find out it's someone's birthday.

01:39:17   In the past several years, I've been asking them what year they were born. Because what I wanted to just know is not just that it's their birthday, but how old they are. So I don't want to just put like March 5th as their birthday. I need a year.

01:39:28   So because then if you have that in there, if you had it in your Apple contacts thing, your phone will say it's blah, blah, blah, it's 22nd birthday. So you don't have to do math in your head or whatever. It just tells you how old they are.

01:39:38   So I've been trying to keep the birthday things up to date. I also try to keep the addresses up to date. We still do send out holiday cards.

01:39:49   Here's my request. Marco just talked about archive contacts. I've wanted forever and still want the exact same thing I wanted forever in photos, which is shared contacts, like family shared contact thingies.

01:40:01   Right. I mean, it's it's such a low volume of data compared with photos. It seems like it's so straightforward. They should just do it.

01:40:08   I'm glad the contacts now sync reliably. They didn't always do that back in the bad old days, but I really because the problem is my wife, you also use Apple contacts and she has people's birthdays and anniversaries and mailing addresses.

01:40:20   And so I have some of that. We have almost a huge overlap, like 90% of the same contacts, but they diverge massively.

01:40:28   So anytime we want to look up anything about a person, we have to compare notes. What do you have for this person? What do you have?

01:40:33   Is that the right? Is that the current address or is this the current? Is that is that the right phone number?

01:40:37   Is that we have different birthdays is like that problem could be solved. The second wrinkle I have is, OK, so I use Apple contacts and I try to keep them.

01:40:46   I also I also curate a nice collection of photos for people who I frequently message.

01:40:50   So I have they have the photos that I want. I keep those photos in a folder somewhere else because they constantly get overwritten by thing.

01:40:55   Anyway, the other thing I really want out of the contacts syncing service, actually, I had a note about this.

01:41:01   Let me see if I can look it up. No, I guess I guess the family share thing is the only thing I need to talk about.

01:41:07   Right now. Oh, yeah. The the the wrinkle on my end is that I don't use an email client that has access to Apple contacts.

01:41:19   So I've got this big contacts thing with everyone's email address in it, but I use the Gmail web interface and it has its own contacts database.

01:41:26   There's no connection to the Apple contacts database. And you would think this would be a terrible problem, but it is not.

01:41:33   It's just not. I never look things up in Google contacts.

01:41:40   And I guess I don't send a lot of outgoing email or if I do, it's from like they've emailed me recently.

01:41:45   Like

01:41:46   It just I I can't explain it. I it seems like it should be an awful problem, but I've been doing it for I don't know a decade or like since Gmail has existed.

01:41:56   I don't pay any attention to Gmail contacts. I don't curate them. I don't edit them. There's nothing in them.

01:42:01   The only thing that's in them is the stuff that gets auto populated by Gmail.

01:42:03   So, yeah, that's what I do with contacts.

01:42:08   It's a giant cesspool, a giant auto completing cesspool in Gmail where I do most of my emailing.

01:42:12   But in practice, it doesn't matter. And then my actual contacts database, which I use for everything else.

01:42:17   All right. Dimitri Myronenko writes, how do you all handle version control in your apps?

01:42:23   For my personal projects, I use either public or private GitHub repos.

01:42:26   However, if I had an app as a business, uploading my code anywhere online feels very insecure.

01:42:30   But only having a copy of this source code locally and via Backblaze is also an invitation for disaster.

01:42:36   Do you run your own Git server offsite?

01:42:38   This is the sort of thing that I would very much do and I very much do not.

01:42:42   I use GitHub. I use private GitHub repos for anything that's private, public in the rare occasion.

01:42:47   I'm trying to do something out in the wild, but that's fine.

01:42:50   There are so many more important things stored on GitHub that if somebody really wants my source code that badly, like have at it.

01:42:58   That's not an invitation. That's not a challenge, for goodness sakes.

01:43:01   But you know what I mean. Like, I am such a small fish in such a giant ocean that I'm not too worried about it.

01:43:06   And I like that I have GitHub, you know, to not only back things up, not only to store things, it's always available, asterisk, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

01:43:16   I also super-duper love the way GitHub Issues works and the wiki and stuff like that.

01:43:21   And I presume if I self-hosted, a lot of that would come with it.

01:43:23   But I like having that taken care of for me.

01:43:26   I pay the $50-ish a year in order to have an account.

01:43:29   I probably don't even need to anymore, come to think of it, because they made their free plan a lot more robust a couple of years back.

01:43:36   But anyway, I pay about $50 a year to GitHub, and it's been working out great for me so far.

01:43:40   Don't plan to change.

01:43:41   Since I started with Marco last time, let's go to John first.

01:43:44   Yeah, I just use GitHub for everything, private and public.

01:43:47   The great thing about Git is that, you know, everybody who has the repo cloned has all the info in the repo as of the last time they did a pull.

01:43:58   So if anything disastrous ever happens with GitHub, you know, I've probably got all – I haven't lost anything.

01:44:05   Like, I've got multiple machines here with the whole repo on them, especially whichever one I just pushed from has the latest stuff in it.

01:44:11   And then the other good thing about Git is it's just a bunch of boring plain files.

01:44:15   So that means all my backups have all those .git directories in them that have all the info.

01:44:19   So, like, I'm not worried about GitHub.

01:44:22   I mean, to Casey's point, it's a pretty big thing.

01:44:26   So it is an attractive target, but I'm not an attractive sub-target within that target.

01:44:30   Microsoft's been doing some kind of crummy stuff with GitHub.

01:44:34   But, you know, the good thing about Git is you don't like it.

01:44:37   You can move someplace else and have a different origin server.

01:44:39   So, yeah, just plain old GitHub and Git repos.

01:44:42   So that's what I do for all my source stuff.

01:44:45   Even when, you know, the default in Xcode, if you start a new Xcode project, I think a little checkbox is checked that says,

01:44:49   do you want me to make a local Git repo for you?

01:44:51   And I always just leave that checked.

01:44:53   Even for, like, little toy projects that I make locally, I always just use Git locally.

01:44:58   And then if I decide, oh, actually, this is for a bug reproduction, then I just change the origin to be GitHub and push it up there.

01:45:04   I actually used to have a little note because I could never remember the freaking Git commands to do that.

01:45:08   But now GitHub, when you make a new repo, GitHub puts those instructions right on the page because they know what's happening.

01:45:14   They're like, look, we know you're probably going to do this.

01:45:17   You probably already made the repo on your computer.

01:45:18   You've probably been doing stuff with it.

01:45:19   And you probably now want it to be a point to this empty GitHub repo that you just copy and paste these things.

01:45:24   It's very convenient.

01:45:26   So that's it.

01:45:26   Marco.

01:45:28   Mine's also really boring.

01:45:29   I host my stuff on GitHub, private and public.

01:45:32   Like Casey, I used to pay for the private plan.

01:45:35   I now don't because they made everything that I paid for free.

01:45:38   Yeah, I use the free plan, too.

01:45:40   Yeah.

01:45:40   And it's fine.

01:45:42   Like I've never had a problem with GitHub.

01:45:44   I know, you know, relying on something like that is not always perfect and is not, frankly, always my style, as many of you know.

01:45:52   But in this case, like self-hosting it would be it's like it's like hosting your own email.

01:45:58   It's like, yeah, you can.

01:45:59   But why?

01:46:00   Although it's actually it's a lot easier than hosting your own email.

01:46:03   Like I said, Git is so portable.

01:46:06   The whole point of it, it's decentralized.

01:46:07   The whole point of it is that every, you know, anyone who has, everyone has everything.

01:46:11   It's not like, oh, well, all my history is in GitHub, but I only have my local.

01:46:14   No, your local thing has all the history.

01:46:16   It's the whole point.

01:46:16   Like it is the most portable thing you can ever be, right?

01:46:19   And there are so many other servers that can be the origin server for your Git repo.

01:46:25   We're just using GitHub now, but if they ever go bad, like we are all so protected by the nature of the decentralized nature of Git.

01:46:33   Unless like there's tons of development going on in the repo that we're not doing.

01:46:36   But as solo developers working on solo projects, presumably there's at least one computer locally that has all the history in it because that's where the last push came from.

01:46:44   Yeah.

01:46:45   Also regarding the idea that that hosting your business code would be insecure.

01:46:51   As long as you're hosting it somewhere, I would say the odds of GitHub being hacked are probably lower than the odds of your server being hacked.

01:47:03   You know, when it comes to like the main, main stuff like this, the big tech giants have a really good track record for security.

01:47:14   When was the last time iCloud got hacked or Gmail?

01:47:18   What about Outlook?

01:47:19   Never.

01:47:20   Like you never hear about this.

01:47:22   I don't know.

01:47:22   I mean, they could be getting hacked and just not telling us about it.

01:47:25   Well, yeah.

01:47:25   But like you, by like, you know, hitching yourself to that, to that ship, whatever the metaphor is.

01:47:32   Wagon.

01:47:33   Yeah.

01:47:33   But thanks.

01:47:35   You know, if, if GitHub is hacked, the world has many bigger problems.

01:47:41   Um, and then finally, I would also suggest that like, suppose in that nightmare scenario, suppose GitHub gets hacked and somebody can read your source code along with probably everyone else's.

01:47:53   First of all, why would they look at yours?

01:47:56   Second of all, if they do look at your source code, this seems like, this is like the, the software version of like, oh my God, they're seeing me naked and learning all of my secrets.

01:48:04   Like you would like, that's, that feels like a really just nightmare scenario thing.

01:48:11   But when I think like, what would somebody do with my code?

01:48:14   I mean, first of all, if they want to fix some bugs for me, that'd be great.

01:48:18   Um, they can, they can also run their own Linode cluster for $9,000 a month and that I'm sure they would do fine.

01:48:23   Um, but ultimately like, what are they going to do?

01:48:27   My app is mine because of the customers, the brand reputation, like, you know.

01:48:34   Like the, the, the app store listings, like all these other assets that wouldn't be able to be stolen so easily with, if you just had a copy of the source code, you could upload your own, you know, you could take my app code and make a clone and upload it to the app store, but you need to write the whole backend or host the whole backend, which is a separate repo.

01:48:53   So if you only have one, you might not have the other, but whatever, host the backend.

01:48:56   And then again, you know, the, the level of complexity it would take to actually do something with that, um, would be a lot.

01:49:04   I don't think the value of losing your source code in some kind of leak or hack is as high as most people think.

01:49:11   And you can, you can verify that by looking at situations where occasionally some high profile source code has been leaked or has been stolen or somehow exfiltrated from its company.

01:49:21   What has happened?

01:49:23   Not much.

01:49:24   You know, if you're a big enough company, if you're doing like, you know, operating systems, you know, if the, the source code to windows or macOS leaks, which I think for windows, I think it did.

01:49:34   Um, didn't a somewhat modern version of windows have a source code leak about five or 10 years ago.

01:49:39   I think so.

01:49:40   Anyway.

01:49:40   So there's like security risks of like, maybe somebody by seeing your source code, maybe they could find a vulnerability that they can exploit.

01:49:48   But keep in mind that the core OS for iOS and macOS and all of Apple's OS is actually open source.

01:49:53   And there is, if you want to find a security flaw in the kernel code, the kernel code is open source.

01:49:57   So have at it.

01:49:58   Right.

01:49:59   And so like, I think the, the actual like risk profile of having someone else look at your code is way lower than most developers think.

01:50:09   And the actual risk of something like GitHub being hacked and allowing access to your code that you didn't authorize, that is also very unlikely.

01:50:21   And the odds of you getting hacked yourself, either your computer getting hacked and, you know, the data, the local copy of your source code on your computer somehow being stolen, or however you would host it on whatever server you would put it on.

01:50:35   I think the odds are much higher of a loss that way than of GitHub being hacked.

01:50:42   All right.

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01:50:55   This week on Overtime, we're talking about the RAM shortage that's happening recently and kind of the flip side of the Apple Intelligence RAM dividend that we've been talking about a few times in the recent past.

01:51:07   So you can join us to listen at atp.fm slash join.

01:51:10   You'll hear that and every other member-exclusive content bit that we do, every episode, occasional member specials.

01:51:15   It's a lot.

01:51:16   It's a good time.

01:51:16   Get more of us.

01:51:17   It's great.

01:51:17   Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

01:51:18   We'll talk to you next week.

01:51:32   John didn't do any research.

01:51:36   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental.

01:51:40   It was accidental.

01:51:43   And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.

01:51:49   And if you're into Mastodon, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

01:51:59   So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-A-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-C-O-R-

01:52:29   God damn it.

01:52:30   Do you want to do it now and drop it in?

01:52:31   Yeah, wedge it in.

01:52:32   No, we're not going to drop it in.

01:52:34   It's going to be at the end of the show.

01:52:35   This is our punishment.

01:52:36   All right.

01:52:36   It's the reward for the people who made it this far,

01:52:39   and it's our punishment for not doing it at the front of the show

01:52:41   because we're bad.

01:52:42   God damn it.

01:52:44   All right.

01:52:44   Hey, so we did the thing, or didn't do the thing,

01:52:49   depending on how you look at it.

01:52:50   We were supposed to talk about something way at the top of the show,

01:52:53   and we didn't.

01:52:53   And so we're going to talk about it way at the end of the show,

01:52:56   and I'm going to use one final opportunity as I sit here on the 22nd of

01:53:00   December to say that if you are a slacker or procrastinator or just generally

01:53:06   need an idea for an excellent gift, let me tell you.

01:53:09   An excellent gift you can get the nerd in your life is ATP membership.

01:53:13   You can do it for a month.

01:53:14   You can do it for a year.

01:53:15   You go to ATP.fm slash gift, and you can gift someone ATP membership,

01:53:20   which is really great.

01:53:21   You will not spoil the surprise or anything like that.

01:53:25   We will basically, as the flow that John created tells you very explicitly,

01:53:30   it is up to you to notify the recipient.

01:53:33   We give you a special code, URL, whatever,

01:53:35   and it is up to you to give that to the recipient to actually give them the gift.

01:53:40   John, anything you would like to add about that?

01:53:43   Nope.

01:53:45   It's pretty straightforward.

01:53:46   Again, we've had a lot of success with this system.

01:53:48   There's nothing for you to lose.

01:53:50   What if I went to that screen and I forgot?

01:53:51   Oh, it told me to save this code, but I forgot.

01:53:53   Am I ever going to see that code again?

01:53:54   No, it's on your member page.

01:53:55   Just log in.

01:53:56   Every gift you've ever given or received is listed there, along with the redemption

01:53:59   instructions, the URL, the code, everything.

01:54:01   It's a pretty straightforward system.

01:54:03   It's a great gift.

01:54:04   It's a last-minute gift that you can deliver it instantly.

01:54:08   And I think there is probably a nerd in your life that might like it.

01:54:11   And if you are, now, here's the problem with this.

01:54:13   Who are you talking to?

01:54:15   Someone who's going to give this to me as a gift?

01:54:16   They're not listening to the show.

01:54:17   I'm listening to the show and I want it as a gift.

01:54:19   Well, on the store page, if you log in to ATP.fm or you go to ATP.fm slash gift or ATP.fm

01:54:25   slash store, if you are logged in, both of those places will say, hey, do you want someone

01:54:30   to buy you a gift membership, give them this URL and that you just give that URL to somebody

01:54:35   and say, click on this and buy it for me.

01:54:37   That will pre-fill the form with your information and get it sent to you.

01:54:40   So, yeah.

01:54:41   The people who are going to buy a gift membership probably aren't listening to the show.

01:54:45   The people who want a gift membership probably are listening.

01:54:47   So that is a thing you can do as well.

01:54:49   But either way, if you just tell them, hey, I want an ATP membership, go to ATP.fm slash gift

01:54:54   and get it for me.

01:54:54   They'll figure it out.

01:54:55   It works fine.

01:54:57   Excellent.

01:54:57   And remember, you get the bootleg or the gift recipient gets the bootleg, member specials,

01:55:02   ad-free feed.

01:55:03   If they hang on to the membership long enough, discounts on our time-limited merch, the whole

01:55:09   rigmarole, all sorts of fun stuff.

01:55:11   So ATP.fm slash gift.

01:55:12   John, you have a problem, is my understanding.

01:55:16   Tell me about this.

01:55:17   Yet another reason I'm not upgrading to house.

01:55:19   Still, it's like, what are we on?

01:55:20   We're on 26.2 with 26.3 in beta.

01:55:25   The first real strike against me in app development was the Xcode 26.1 that broke my ability to

01:55:32   have new icons in the new OS and old icons in the old OS, which really annoyed me as if

01:55:37   I didn't need more annoyance related to icons in this thing.

01:55:39   And now the new annoyance, I got a bug report that said, hey, the new glass appearance and

01:55:46   you know, Tahoe, you know, liquid glass appearance for my app switcher palette in switch glass, which

01:55:51   was essentially the main Tahoe feature was like, hey, there's this new glass thing.

01:55:55   I should use that as one of the options.

01:55:56   You already had like six options of how you wanted to look.

01:55:58   One of them, actually three of them are glass.

01:56:01   There's regular glass, clear glass and tinted glass, all of which are appearances.

01:56:05   And they're like, hey, it doesn't work right anymore.

01:56:07   Things don't show behind it.

01:56:09   Like if you move a window behind it, you can't see through the glass.

01:56:12   I'm like, what are you talking about?

01:56:13   Of course you can.

01:56:14   It's just that's exactly how glass works.

01:56:16   You put stuff behind it and does a little warping effect or whatever.

01:56:18   But sure enough, I fired it up on 26.2 and it didn't work.

01:56:22   And so there we go.

01:56:24   New sample project in Xcode made a reproduction.

01:56:29   And like I was I was making the bug report because you just you just make a window.

01:56:32   You put glass appearance on it and you put like I put a yellow sticky note behind it.

01:56:36   It's like, nope, can't see the sticky note through it.

01:56:38   And I'm like, well, here was the complication.

01:56:41   Has this never worked and I'm just forgetting like what I start to feel like I'm just what's

01:56:47   going on here?

01:56:47   Like I could swear this worked fine.

01:56:49   Unfortunately, by that point, I no longer had any machines that were running 26.1.

01:56:55   I just had 26.2 and then like 26.3 beta, but I didn't have 26.1 anymore.

01:57:00   The majority of the time it took me to report this bug was figuring out how the hell to get

01:57:05   26.1 back on one of these Macs.

01:57:07   I hate the install process for like installing an old version of Mac OS and external drive

01:57:13   so much on modern Mac.

01:57:14   I understand why it's there.

01:57:15   I understand the secure boot, blah, blah, blah.

01:57:17   But getting the full installer, which Apple does not make easy, and then getting that installed

01:57:23   and having a play.

01:57:24   No, you can't install that disc.

01:57:25   And this disc is not signed in with an account and it's owned by the blah, blah, blah.

01:57:28   Oh, I hate it so much.

01:57:30   It used to be so much easier.

01:57:31   Speaking of things that were easier back when there was less security.

01:57:34   Anyway, eventually I did it.

01:57:36   I got 26.1 back on the thing and sure enough, worked fine back then.

01:57:40   Worked in 26.0, worked in 26.1, 26.2 totally.

01:57:44   And this is not like a minor feature.

01:57:45   This is on Mac OS.

01:57:46   The glass appearance does not glass.

01:57:50   And maybe it's like, okay, well, a glass is fine within a window.

01:57:56   But if you think of something like the dock or switch glass, it's kind of like just like

01:58:00   a floating window with a glass background.

01:58:02   So like if you drag a window behind the dock, you see it through the dock.

01:58:06   It's glass, right?

01:58:07   My thing used to be the same thing and they totally broke that in 26.2.

01:58:11   And I believe also in 26.3 beta.

01:58:14   Just 100% broke it.

01:58:16   Like you put a window behind it and you don't see the thing behind it.

01:58:19   Maddening.

01:58:20   So anyway, I'm making the bug report and I'm like, okay, but now that I know that I've

01:58:25   got a machine that runs 26.1 and then the one that's running 26.2, now I can take screenshots

01:58:29   of one and the other and say, this is how it used to look.

01:58:32   This is how it looks now.

01:58:33   This is a regression.

01:58:34   You broke it.

01:58:35   And I was taking the screenshots and then I'm like dragging them into like the feedback

01:58:39   app or whatever.

01:58:40   And I'm like, I'm trying to, I'm using the space bar to quick look to say, okay, was this

01:58:43   the one before or after the breakage?

01:58:45   And I'm looking at the screenshots and it's, it looks right in all the screenshots.

01:58:49   Cool.

01:58:50   What?

01:58:50   What the hell?

01:58:52   I'm like, maybe I just took it wrong.

01:58:54   So I go back to the machine and take another screenshot.

01:58:55   Like, no, what?

01:58:57   So this is one of those things where the screenshot, when you take a screenshot, everything renders

01:59:02   correctly, but on the actual screen, it doesn't.

01:59:05   So I took a video with my phone of the screen.

01:59:09   Like an animal.

01:59:10   I posted it to Mastodon.

01:59:12   I'm like, look, I swear to you, this is broken here.

01:59:15   I just, I just put my, I put my phone on a tripod in front of my laptop screen and hit

01:59:20   record.

01:59:20   And I said, it's broken.

01:59:22   Look, it's totally, it's totally broken.

01:59:24   The worst part is that, um, if you, uh, if the window appears or the glass appearance

01:59:30   turns on or whatever, when there's a thing behind it, like, so let's say you put the yellow

01:59:33   sticky note behind the thing and then like, you know, put a liquid glass window appears

01:59:37   in front of it.

01:59:38   Then the yellow thing shows through like the yellow sticky note shows through like all fuzzy

01:59:42   and glass and distorted.

01:59:43   But then if you drag the sticky note out from underneath it, the part of it that appeared

01:59:49   behind it, it gets stuck there.

01:59:50   Like it's, it's like a pre-rendered background.

01:59:52   Like it sticks there.

01:59:53   Someone sent me a, I think it's in the same Amazon said, a screenshot.

01:59:56   No, is it a Slack channel?

01:59:57   Like the thing that comes up that says like, do you sure you want to restart your computer?

02:00:01   That's like a glassy, you know, that little dialogue that comes up.

02:00:05   That's a glassy thing too.

02:00:06   If that comes up over a background window and then you move the background window out of

02:00:10   the way, the little residue of that background window stays there.

02:00:13   Like, so it's super broken across the whole OS, not just like, not just in app kit apps, not

02:00:18   just in my app, you know, it works in the doc, but like system dialogues will retain a burned

02:00:25   in copy of the windows that were behind them.

02:00:28   After you drag the windows out, this is not giving me lots of confidence in Tahoe.

02:00:33   Again, this is 26.2.

02:00:35   This broken, this is not a 0.0 thing.

02:00:38   So Apple continues to annoy me and the quality control of this release seems not great.

02:00:44   I hate to say I told everyone so, but I'm, you know, not kind of repeating myself a lot

02:00:48   here, but like when you do a giant system redesign, you basically have a year in beta.

02:00:53   This entire cycle, 26 series OSs are all going to be like a little bit beta probably for most

02:01:02   or all of the entire year, just because it's a huge undertaking.

02:01:05   This is part of why it's something that's not, you know, to be undertaken lightly.

02:01:09   It's a huge undertaking and there's just a lot that changes and a lot that needs to be

02:01:16   tweaked and fixed and redesigned and adjusted.

02:01:19   And there's not enough time in the regular summer beta cycle that Apple enforces.

02:01:23   There's not enough time in that to do a whole redesign with a high level of software quality.

02:01:28   They just, and, you know, rather than change their schedule, which they're not going to do,

02:01:33   this is what we have to deal with.

02:01:35   It's a year of beta.

02:01:36   Enjoy.

02:01:38   To be honest, I'm running Tahoe on my computer and it's fine.

02:01:42   Like I, not to say that you guys are wrong or anything like that, but in my experience,

02:01:47   it's been fine.

02:01:48   Next time a dialogue comes up, one of those glassy translucent dialogues, and it comes up

02:01:52   over a window, move the window out from behind it and watch out.

02:01:55   A piece of it stays stuck to the dialogue and tell me how fine it is.

02:01:58   Well, how does that happen in the point two release?

02:02:02   How, how, like, what are they doing?

02:02:05   Because they were fixing bigger bugs than the other releases.

02:02:07   They were fixing it like it's just, yeah, it's, it's not reassuring.