ATP

00:00:00 ◼   ► All right, as you know, it is very important to me to never guess

00:00:05 ◼   ► or BS about anything.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:00:07 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:00:08 ◼   ► So I have some actual data this time.

00:00:10 ◼   ► I was uh it kind of bothered me last episode that I didn't have

00:00:14 ◼   ► good performance numbers for the M six Mac minis in my transcript machines.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Um so now that I well, my the single single Mac mini in my

00:00:22 ◼   ► the one of forty eight is an M six.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Um and I'm happy to report that now I have actual numbers.

00:00:28 ◼   ► So in this role of being my transcript machine, the M six over the

00:00:33 ◼   ► M four is about twenty to thirty percent faster.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Wow.

00:00:38 ◼   ► So that's so I now have actual numbers to say that like it is

00:00:41 ◼   ► it hovers between those two.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Now keep in mind that these are doing more than just cr transcription.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Um they're also now, thanks to Claude, using two different transcription models.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Um I'm I'm now falling back to parakeet for languages that Apple's speech transcriber

00:00:56 ◼   ► does not support.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Um so they're they're doing a lot more, but with that mixed workload over

00:01:02 ◼   ► like twelve hours averages, I'm you know, depending on when I look it's between

00:01:07 ◼   ► and thirty percent difference.

00:01:08 ◼   ► And now here's the question.

00:01:10 ◼   ► Uh how does that work out when you divide by price?

00:01:14 ◼   ► Oh.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Is it in other words, is it still more economical to get more M

00:01:18 ◼   ► fours?

00:01:19 ◼   ► Well, at the price I paid for them back in the day, yes.

00:01:23 ◼   ► But uh even even today's prices, presumably you can get an M4 mini for

00:01:26 ◼   ► cheaper than an M six, right?

00:01:28 ◼   ► I mean, probably, but it the difference might not be as big as you

00:01:31 ◼   ► think.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Like used Mac minis always cost more than you think they will because there's

00:01:36 ◼   ► always a market for used Mac minis, especially at the low end.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Like if you're you know, if you're trying to sell a used Mac mini

00:01:43 ◼   ► that's high spec'd that cost you two thousand dollars when you bought it new,

00:01:46 ◼   ► you're probably gonna lose some money on that.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Whereas if you just are trying to sell a base model that you got

00:01:51 ◼   ► a good price on, you're probably not gonna lose that much money.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Because the thing like, you know, because it is so important to so many

00:01:58 ◼   ► people to just have a Mac and the Mac Mini is usually in m

00:02:02 ◼   ► many ways the cheapest way to do that, although the Neo throws a wrench

00:02:05 ◼   ► in that plan.

00:02:06 ◼   ► But there's always this is why used Mac minis, like when you go on

00:02:09 ◼   ► eBay and stuff, they're never that much cheaper than the new ones.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Just because everybody wants them.

00:02:15 ◼   ► So it's probably better for me to just buy M sixes at this point,

00:02:18 ◼   ► but i it would probably be close.

00:02:20 ◼   ► And if I compare it to what I was actually paying for these M

00:02:23 ◼   ► fours, you know, a year and a half ago or a year ago, like

00:02:26 ◼   ► that was a very different situation.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Like 'cause almost all of these, like they're Like their their list price was

00:02:31 ◼   ► six hundred dollars.

00:02:32 ◼   ► I don't think I paid that for a single one.

00:02:34 ◼   ► But it was definitely like, you know, around five hundred bucks for most of

00:02:37 ◼   ► them, maybe five fifty at the highest.

00:02:41 ◼   ► All right.

00:02:41 ◼   ► For the final time for twenty twenty six.

00:02:45 ◼   ► I am begging you to go to saintju.org slash ATP and send a little

00:02:50 ◼   ► bit of money their way.

00:02:50 ◼   ► So what are we talking about?

00:02:51 ◼   ► So September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.

00:02:54 ◼   ► And uh this month, September is running at least 32 days because uh we

00:02:59 ◼   ► A week from today as we record this, I will be in Memphis, Tennessee

00:03:03 ◼   ► on the St.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Jude campus and I will be recording our 12-hour podcast a thon that begins

00:03:07 ◼   ► at noon Eastern and runs until midnight.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And we are doing this in service of St.

00:03:11 ◼   ► Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Why St.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Jude?

00:03:13 ◼   ► Because they do whatever they can to make sure that no child dies in

00:03:17 ◼   ► the dawn of life.

00:03:19 ◼   ► They have done absolutely tremendous work.

00:03:22 ◼   ► They are astonishingly good people who care.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Everybody there cares cares.

00:03:28 ◼   ► How do I know?

00:03:28 ◼   ► Because I've been there many times and I've spoken to many different employees in

00:03:32 ◼   ► many different parts of the organization and they care.

00:03:36 ◼   ► It is astonishing how much everyone cares about their mission.

00:03:39 ◼   ► It's really, really, really impressive.

00:03:41 ◼   ► So here's the thing.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Uh when St.

00:03:43 ◼   ► Jude opened in 1962, childhood cancer was largely considered incurable.

00:03:48 ◼   ► Since then, St.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Jude has help push the overall cancer survival rate into in the US at

00:03:52 ◼   ► least from 20% to more than 80%.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Percent and Saint Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Uh turning curing childhood cancer is an absolutely astonishing undertaking and Saint Jude needs

00:04:04 ◼   ► our help to do it.

00:04:05 ◼   ► That's you, the listener.

00:04:06 ◼   ► You yes, in the headphones, you.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Uh the generosity of donors, like you everywhere supports cutting edge research that saves

00:04:13 ◼   ► lives, ensures that families never receive a bill from St.

00:04:15 ◼   ► Jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Every child deserves a chance to live their best life and celebrate every moment.

00:04:21 ◼   ► When you support St.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Jude, you can help make s cures possible for kids with cancer.

00:04:27 ◼   ► And why wouldn't you want to do that?

00:04:29 ◼   ► Uh it it is really astonishing the generosity of the ATP and relay community.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Uh I meant to highlight this earlier and I completely forgot to.

00:04:38 ◼   ► And as I vamp for time, I can't find the actual thing I'm looking

00:04:41 ◼   ► for.

00:04:41 ◼   ► But if I recall correctly, the leading donation.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Last I looked anyway, a single donation was twenty thousand dollars.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And I just want to congratulate that person.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Uh I've spoken to that person.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I am uh friendly with that person or at at the very least casually

00:04:57 ◼   ► acquainted with that person.

00:04:58 ◼   ► Um I don't know if they want to be named and that's why I'm

00:05:00 ◼   ► being cagey about it, but I hope at that level everyone's friendly with this

00:05:03 ◼   ► person.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Exactly right.

00:05:05 ◼   ► You should be if you're not.

00:05:07 ◼   ► You have friends in all of us for sure.

00:05:08 ◼   ► Um so yeah, so it is absolutely incredible the generosity of the ATP family,

00:05:13 ◼   ► but and relay.

00:05:14 ◼   ► But here's the thing.

00:05:15 ◼   ► What if you don't have twenty thousand dollars just laying around burning a hole

00:05:17 ◼   ► in your pocket?

00:05:18 ◼   ► What if you have two dollars laying around burning a hole in your pocket?

00:05:20 ◼   ► You know what?

00:05:21 ◼   ► We'll take that too.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Don't fead.

00:05:22 ◼   ► That's freaking great.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It really is.

00:05:24 ◼   ► You should go to saintju.org slash ATP and you should donate whatever you can

00:05:28 ◼   ► because I can tell you, I've seen it with my eyes.

00:05:31 ◼   ► This money goes to good things.

00:05:33 ◼   ► And who doesn't want to try to eliminate the the sickness, sickness in kids?

00:05:38 ◼   ► I almost said eliminate sick kids.

00:05:39 ◼   ► That'd be very bad.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Thankfully, I caught myself.

00:05:41 ◼   ► We're not gonna fix it in post.

00:05:42 ◼   ► We're gonna leave it in.

00:05:43 ◼   ► Uh but anyway, why wouldn't you want to get rid of childhood cancer?

00:05:46 ◼   ► So additionally, and I know that October does end on September thirty second this

00:05:52 ◼   ► year, but there are some new devices coming a couple of weeks.

00:05:58 ◼   ► We're just gonna keep keep that all in, yep.

00:05:59 ◼   ► No, it's all staying in, baby.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Not gonna fix anything in post.

00:06:02 ◼   ► It's perfect.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Uh but yeah, so uh October isn't running as long as we maybe could

00:06:07 ◼   ► desire it to because the iPhone Duo isn't shipping until a couple weeks after

00:06:12 ◼   ► the campaign ends.

00:06:13 ◼   ► But you probably have already figured out, if you're a p prospective iPhone Duo

00:06:18 ◼   ► buyer, you probably have already figured out what you're gonna buy.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And if you feel guilt about your rampant consumerism, which you probably should, there's

00:06:25 ◼   ► a way that you can set yourself right with the universe.

00:06:29 ◼   ► You can erase that bad karma and even it out.

00:06:32 ◼   ► You know, it's like a carbon offset for karma.

00:06:34 ◼   ► And the way you do that is by listening to my dear friend Marco

00:06:37 ◼   ► Armin tell you about his offset.

00:06:39 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:06:39 ◼   ► Because you know, throughout the history of the world, no one has ever had

00:06:42 ◼   ► any problems with using money to absolve you of potential sins or or guilt.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Um so if you want to offset your indulgences, figure out the base price

00:06:53 ◼   ► of the indulgence family that you've selected.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Whether it's an iPhone, uh an Apple Watch, maybe an upcoming, you know, foldable

00:07:00 ◼   ► iPhone, uh maybe some kind of foldable computer in you know a month or

00:07:03 ◼   ► two or whenever those whenever those launch.

00:07:06 ◼   ► You gotta figure out what are you probably gonna spend on that or what

00:07:08 ◼   ► did you spend on that?

00:07:09 ◼   ► Take the base price, whatever you spend on top of that with everything all

00:07:13 ◼   ► in, storage upgrades, tiers of different things available different options, cases, Apple Care, whatever

00:07:18 ◼   ► it is.

00:07:19 ◼   ► Fifteen hundred dollars say and then and the the base products is an iPhone

00:07:22 ◼   ► Pro, that's eleven hundred dollars.

00:07:23 ◼   ► So your the offset between those two is four hundred dollars.

00:07:26 ◼   ► That is your suggested minimum donation.

00:07:29 ◼   ► This will absolve you of all your sins, at least in in this particular

00:07:32 ◼   ► area.

00:07:33 ◼   ► Um and what I suggest also, if you can, go to level two, which

00:07:37 ◼   ► adds on to that whatever you spent on paid AI plans or API costs

00:07:41 ◼   ► this month.

00:07:42 ◼   ► Level three, even above that, is whatever you spent on paid AI plans and

00:07:46 ◼   ► API costs this year.

00:07:49 ◼   ► I challenge you, try to find a better way to absolve yourself of rampant

00:07:52 ◼   ► consumerism guilt and AI usage guilt than this.

00:07:55 ◼   ► You won't find one, I assure you.

00:07:57 ◼   ► And there's nothing wrong with the system whatsoever of using this foob's all view

00:08:00 ◼   ► of this guilt.

00:08:01 ◼   ► So please go today.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Consider that as your minimum donation if you can swing it.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Thank you very much.

00:08:06 ◼   ► John, this is your last opportunity.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Well this is everybody that's what I was gonna say.

00:08:09 ◼   ► This is everybody's if you've been hearing this uh you know pledge drive thing

00:08:12 ◼   ► like oh yeah, I should probably do that.

00:08:14 ◼   ► This is it.

00:08:14 ◼   ► This is the last chance.

00:08:16 ◼   ► You're gonna hear us talk about it again, although we may have talked about

00:08:18 ◼   ► Casey being on that podcast account, that'll be in the past tense.

00:08:21 ◼   ► And keep in mind, you can donate to St.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Jude all year long.

00:08:23 ◼   ► Obviously, we try to get people to do it during the pledge drive, but

00:08:26 ◼   ► if you miss it, it's like, oh, I can't donate anymore.

00:08:28 ◼   ► You can always donate.

00:08:29 ◼   ► But please, if you wanted to do it during our pledge drive, this is

00:08:32 ◼   ► it.

00:08:32 ◼   ► This is the time.

00:08:33 ◼   ► If you're hearing this.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Stop the podcast.

00:08:36 ◼   ► Go donate.

00:08:37 ◼   ► S T J U D E dot O-R-G-A-TP.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Thank you very much for all of you for listening to us talk about

00:08:44 ◼   ► this.

00:08:44 ◼   ► It really truly is important to us.

00:08:46 ◼   ► It means a lot to all three of us.

00:08:47 ◼   ► It obviously means an incredible amount to Steven and the relay community.

00:08:51 ◼   ► So thank you very much for p for for going on this journey with

00:08:55 ◼   ► us, SaintThu.org slash ATP.

00:08:57 ◼   ► John, last episode, which as we sit here now is two days ago, but

00:09:01 ◼   ► we already have some follow up.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Uh Andy writes, Which mouse pad does John use?

00:09:05 ◼   ► I want that new mouse pad feeling.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I I was thinking about this.

00:09:08 ◼   ► I was I was showing my daughter my new mouse pad when I was

00:09:10 ◼   ► FaceTiming her with her earlier today and explaining uh what I did.

00:09:13 ◼   ► So I'll put a link in the show notes to what I get.

00:09:15 ◼   ► I haven't always gotten the same one, but it's usually uh just like a

00:09:20 ◼   ► cheap, generic black uh sheet of mouse pad.

00:09:23 ◼   ► You know those big ones that like gamers use to cover like their entire

00:09:27 ◼   ► desk.

00:09:27 ◼   ► I get that and then I cut rectangular pieces out of it to fit

00:09:32 ◼   ► in the area where I want the mouse pad because it's not like a

00:09:34 ◼   ► regular mouse pad shape.

00:09:35 ◼   ► And mouse pads come in like I don't know what I think of is

00:09:38 ◼   ► the 80s size, which is too small Uh and now they come in the

00:09:42 ◼   ► like the 2000 size, which is cover your entire desk.

00:09:44 ◼   ► And there's a one or two in-between sizes that I've toyed with, but they're

00:09:48 ◼   ► neite right.

00:09:48 ◼   ► And I have I have a uh a metal keyboard tray that my keyboard

00:09:51 ◼   ► and mouse are on.

00:09:53 ◼   ► And I there's room for the mouse pad part of it, and I want

00:09:56 ◼   ► it to basically be the exact depth of my keyboard tray and then as

00:10:00 ◼   ► wide as I want it to be.

00:10:01 ◼   ► And so I just you know bought this Amazon basics rolled up mousepad because

00:10:06 ◼   ► I had run out of my previous role or rather I'd run out of

00:10:08 ◼   ► parts that I could cut out of it.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Uh and then I just took my old mouse pad, put it on top

00:10:12 ◼   ► of it, took a razor blade and cut right angles, and now I have

00:10:15 ◼   ► a nice new piece of mouse pad.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And when I was showing to my daughter I was like she was like,

00:10:19 ◼   ► why don't you cover the whole uh keyboard tray with it.

00:10:22 ◼   ► And like previously I couldn't find a sheet that would fit the dimensions of

00:10:26 ◼   ► it, but now my current sheet would fit the dimensions and I was thinking

00:10:28 ◼   ► about it.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I might do that, but I kind of like the idea that the keyboard

00:10:33 ◼   ► knows where the keyboard area ends.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Like I can never accidentally move the keyboard over too far and encroach on

00:10:38 ◼   ► my mouse area because the the mouse pad will stop it.

00:10:41 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:10:41 ◼   ► So maybe I'll I'll think about that.

00:10:43 ◼   ► For five years from now when I'm replacing this mouse pad again, I might

00:10:46 ◼   ► think about cutting cutting off a piece that is the size of the entire

00:10:49 ◼   ► keyboard tray.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I would definitely do it if my keyboard was sliding around, but it doesn't

00:10:53 ◼   ► the metal grips the little rubber feet pretty well.

00:10:56 ◼   ► Now Goldilocks, how do you make sure that you get exact right angles when

00:11:00 ◼   ► you're cutting this?

00:11:01 ◼   ► Uh you use a uh a metal uh like an L-shaped metal ruler, you

00:11:05 ◼   ► know what I mean?

00:11:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:06 ◼   ► I I had a feeling that anything that is not an exact perpendicular cut

00:11:11 ◼   ► would be completely intolerable to why would you do that?

00:11:14 ◼   ► It's hard to make right angles.

00:11:15 ◼   ► I have a million tools in the house that will, you know, metal squares

00:11:18 ◼   ► and stuff that will do that.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Um yeah, that's a you can use that as the cutting edge, right?

00:11:21 ◼   ► But you can't the nice rounded corners that mouse pads always have no there's

00:11:24 ◼   ► only all I do have this I the one I cut from the sheet,

00:11:27 ◼   ► one of the rounded corners is on it and the other are all sharp,

00:11:30 ◼   ► right?

00:11:31 ◼   ► And I put the rounded corner in the corner of my um keyboard tray

00:11:35 ◼   ► 'cause I don't know.

00:11:36 ◼   ► That just it that feels like the right place to put it.

00:11:38 ◼   ► But I don't I don't want the rounded corners.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I want every uh why I want the whole thing.

00:11:41 ◼   ► It's like Tahoe, rounded corners just cut into space.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Oh my god gracious.

00:11:46 ◼   ► I was I just I was just pointing that out to we were discussing

00:11:48 ◼   ► in another Slack with somebody on a recent post about what makes Mac apps

00:11:51 ◼   ► Mac apps or whatever.

00:11:52 ◼   ► I'm like, this is a good companion piece.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Uh maybe I'll put the link in the the notes.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I'll give it to Casey in a moment, or I'll in the chat room

00:11:58 ◼   ► actually.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Um

00:12:00 ◼   ► hammering home like in extreme length, the the point that everyone made and we

00:12:05 ◼   ► all made on this show back when Tahoe was released, which is that rounded

00:12:08 ◼   ► corners cut into the space of content.

00:12:11 ◼   ► And people go, all right, sure, whatever.

00:12:12 ◼   ► But like this person's like, no, seriously, think about how dumb it is.

00:12:16 ◼   ► And just goes on and on at length to say, look at how this

00:12:19 ◼   ► screws up every aspect of the infrared interface for no good reason other than

00:12:22 ◼   ► round corners look cute.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Still bothers me.

00:12:26 ◼   ► I mean my mouse pad is around corners and it it has never bothered

00:12:28 ◼   ► me once, but that's also because like I'm not going near the corner.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean like you're not trying to display content on your mouse pad.

00:12:34 ◼   ► At least not yet.

00:12:35 ◼   ► I'm sure that someone has a mouse pad that someone has a mouse pad

00:12:37 ◼   ► that has a screen on it.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Well I I need to remove my mouse to so that I can really

00:12:41 ◼   ► show off the content beneath it.

00:12:42 ◼   ► You just got a translucent mouse and then make your hand translucent and you'll

00:12:45 ◼   ► be all set.

00:12:45 ◼   ► There you go yeah.

00:12:49 ◼   ► Did you see that guy who had the transparent desk with the little charging

00:12:52 ◼   ► uh coil that follows his uh devices around?

00:12:54 ◼   ► Did you see that?

00:12:54 ◼   ► No.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:12:56 ◼   ► It was I I saved it for oh god, I gotta find this.

00:12:59 ◼   ► Um

00:13:00 ◼   ► yeah, he he was riffing on air power of all things, which I feel

00:13:03 ◼   ► like is a really obscure clickbait way to do clickbait for YouTube.

00:13:06 ◼   ► It's like no one remembers this.

00:13:08 ◼   ► This guy I don't know if this kid was born when air power existed.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Um you don't have time to watch it now, but it is uh I

00:13:13 ◼   ► can't tell if it's real.

00:13:15 ◼   ► So there's that.

00:13:16 ◼   ► So let's just chalk it up to it.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Maybe the whole video is AI.

00:13:18 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:13:19 ◼   ► I just It almost doesn't matter with this that kind of thing.

00:13:22 ◼   ► Like it you're it's just a fun thing to see.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:25 ◼   ► Might all be AI, including the person.

00:13:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:29 ◼   ► All right, John, your drive enclosures, you were debating where to put them if

00:13:33 ◼   ► I recall correctly from uh a couple of days ago, how you were going

00:13:36 ◼   ► to mount them into what?

00:13:38 ◼   ► Uh can you tell me what is the situation today?

00:13:41 ◼   ► They are now mounted.

00:13:42 ◼   ► I used uh Velcro command strips to hold the little brackety things that I

00:13:48 ◼   ► got.

00:13:48 ◼   ► Like it's like a laptop holder and like these J-shaped hooks, like and I

00:13:52 ◼   ► uh Velcro command stripped them to the back of my desk and I slotted

00:13:56 ◼   ► the stuff in and ran the cables to them and they're all set now.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So it's nice to have all the stuff off my desk.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Now I just have a Mac Studio on my desk with cables plugged into

00:14:04 ◼   ► every port except for the HDMI port.

00:14:06 ◼   ► I even have the headphone port filled with the same thing that was in

00:14:10 ◼   ► the headphone jack of my Mac Pro, which is uh one of those L-shaped

00:14:14 ◼   ► adapters for headphone um jacks, right?

00:14:18 ◼   ► With nothing plugged into it.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Oh.

00:14:20 ◼   ► And why is that?

00:14:22 ◼   ► So it won't ever play anything over the speaker.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Wow.

00:14:25 ◼   ► I've done this for years.

00:14:26 ◼   ► This is like an old school Mac thing of like if you don't want

00:14:28 ◼   ► your Mac to make noise and you have external speakers, if you never want

00:14:31 ◼   ► the internal speaker to play like off to the side of your desk, if

00:14:33 ◼   ► you have like a tower thing, you put one of the headphones adapters in

00:14:36 ◼   ► there and then it always thinks it has headphones in.

00:14:38 ◼   ► So even like all the inputs, all the outputs of audio get messed up

00:14:42 ◼   ► and it's like oh it's it's you know that your speakers are offline or

00:14:45 ◼   ► this or that, it's never gonna make a noise.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Well is that so uh maybe I don't know maybe 10 ish years ago

00:14:52 ◼   ► Apple changed the way the audio devices and Macs work such that the headphones

00:14:55 ◼   ► The headphone jack and the speakers are now separate audio devices and you can

00:15:00 ◼   ► actually address them separately in the software.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I think if you have the the bong turned on, which I I

00:15:05 ◼   ► do still have turned, I need to turn that off, but you know the

00:15:06 ◼   ► start off.

00:15:07 ◼   ► The bong turned on that that will still play even with the the headphone

00:15:11 ◼   ► jack in.

00:15:11 ◼   ► So yeah, I think they are separate.

00:15:13 ◼   ► All right.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Your weird AirPods five issues.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Can you reintroduce that before I uh tell you what Baum Squad has to

00:15:20 ◼   ► say about it?

00:15:21 ◼   ► Yeah, I I got AirPods Five and I was like I didn't is this

00:15:24 ◼   ► something to do with my new phone or my new AirPods?

00:15:26 ◼   ► But when I put them in, first of all, it sounded like uh head

00:15:28 ◼   ► tracking was on because I would hear the sound like come from my left

00:15:31 ◼   ► and then go to my right or whatever.

00:15:33 ◼   ► And then they would even out.

00:15:34 ◼   ► And I didn't deal with that was.

00:15:35 ◼   ► And then the second thing was when I took the uh the AirPods out,

00:15:40 ◼   ► I take out my right one, fine.

00:15:42 ◼   ► And then when I go to grab my left one, my fingers would brush

00:15:46 ◼   ► against the microphone grating on the outside.

00:15:48 ◼   ► And the microphone would pick that up as if I'm rubbing my finger on

00:15:51 ◼   ► like a lavalier mic or something, and it would make huge static in my

00:15:54 ◼   ► ear.

00:15:54 ◼   ► I'm like what the hell?

00:15:55 ◼   ► Like, because I have I have everything off, like not in any mode, just

00:16:00 ◼   ► every all effects are off.

00:16:01 ◼   ► So it shouldn't even be using that microphone but every time I did it

00:16:03 ◼   ► when I took out the left one, because I take them out one at

00:16:05 ◼   ► a time, when I took out the left one, my fingers would hit the

00:16:07 ◼   ► little speaker grade and it would make terrible static and I couldn't figure out

00:16:09 ◼   ► why.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So Bomb Squad writes the AirPods weird sound change when putting in the second

00:16:14 ◼   ► AirPod and the microphone being activated when you take out one airpod is almost

00:16:18 ◼   ► certainly the same thing.

00:16:19 ◼   ► The listening mode, like transparency or noise cancellation setting, is discrete between one AirPod

00:16:25 ◼   ► and two AirPod use cases.

00:16:27 ◼   ► The fix is to only put in one AirPod, then go into go to

00:16:30 ◼   ► your AirPod setting and control center and switch the listen to the listening mode

00:16:34 ◼   ► that you want.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Do the same with two AirPods in.

00:16:37 ◼   ► Now they should be fixed.

00:16:38 ◼   ► Have you tried this, John?

00:16:39 ◼   ► I did this and it worked.

00:16:40 ◼   ► And I think Bomb Squad has the right idea that essentially there's two sets

00:16:46 ◼   ► of settings.

00:16:46 ◼   ► There there's the settings for when one AirPod is in.

00:16:48 ◼   ► It doesn't matter if it's the right or left, I think, but there's one

00:16:51 ◼   ► AirPod setting and then there's the two AirPods setting.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And for whatever reason, the one AirPod setting was defaulting to transparency mode.

00:16:58 ◼   ► And so when I put the AirPods in, if I put them in one

00:17:00 ◼   ► at a time, I'd put one in, it would be in transparency mode.

00:17:02 ◼   ► And then with this put the second one in, it would go to my

00:17:05 ◼   ► two AirPods mode, which was everything off.

00:17:07 ◼   ► And so that's why I held heard the weird difference between left and right,

00:17:09 ◼   ► you know, when I was putting them in.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And same thing.

00:17:11 ◼   ► When out, as soon as I take out one AirPod, it's up, you're in

00:17:14 ◼   ► one AirPod mode now, and one AirPod mode is configured for transparency.

00:17:17 ◼   ► And then I would take out the left one and I would hear the

00:17:18 ◼   ► speaker.

00:17:19 ◼   ► So many people wrote in to say, Oh, this is because when you have

00:17:23 ◼   ► one AirPod in, they always default to transparency mode.

00:17:27 ◼   ► And those people are close, but I think that Baum Squad gets it right

00:17:31 ◼   ► in that it's not regardless of what the default is, it's like, oh, they

00:17:35 ◼   ► always do one uh they always do transparency with one AirPod.

00:17:38 ◼   ► They do whatever you set it to with one AirPod.

00:17:40 ◼   ► That may be the default, but they're just simply two sets of settings.

00:17:43 ◼   ► It's not saying, Oh, they they always default to transparency mode when you have

00:17:46 ◼   ► one.

00:17:47 ◼   ► They'll they'll one when you put one in and change the settings, that will

00:17:49 ◼   ► be the setting forevermore, I think.

00:17:51 ◼   ► So that's the situation I would not have guessed this has solved my problem.

00:17:55 ◼   ► All right.

00:17:56 ◼   ► With regard to uh excising all of the Intel apps from your computer, uh,

00:18:02 ◼   ► there's a way to do this that I presume John found.

00:18:04 ◼   ► You can go into system settings and then about and then uh intel-based apps

00:18:10 ◼   ► and it will tell you all of the Intel-based apps.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Uh there's a sh the sheet that comes up that says support ending for

00:18:16 ◼   ► Intel-based apps.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Intel-bas running on Rosetta will not open in macOS twenty eight.

00:18:20 ◼   ► The following apps need to be updated for Apple Silicon.

00:18:22 ◼   ► An update may be available on the developer's website, and then there's Learn More

00:18:25 ◼   ► link.

00:18:26 ◼   ► We will put the Learn More link into the show notes.

00:18:28 ◼   ► So a couple things in this.

00:18:29 ◼   ► So last episode I was saying I was going to like what used to

00:18:31 ◼   ► be called system profiler.

00:18:32 ◼   ► I think it's call information now, because that of course lists all your applications

00:18:36 ◼   ► and the uh architecture.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Um activity monitor will also show running applications in their architecture.

00:18:41 ◼   ► There's a bunch of ways to do this.

00:18:43 ◼   ► But apparently in Mac OS twenty seven uh they added this like to a

00:18:48 ◼   ► much higher level.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Like in system settings about, it's right there on the about screen.

00:18:52 ◼   ► There's in there's an Intel based app setting.

00:18:55 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Oh, it's in general about.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I think.

00:18:58 ◼   ► Sorry, did I miss something yesterday?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Yes, you missed general.

00:19:00 ◼   ► That's okay.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Anyway, but the point is it's you don't have to launch a separate app,

00:19:03 ◼   ► you don't click on details or more info.

00:19:05 ◼   ► It's it's much more prominently placed.

00:19:07 ◼   ► And the second thing is as many people have noted, there's text that you

00:19:10 ◼   ► just read, and there's also a notification if like the system finds like a

00:19:15 ◼   ► printer driver or some other, you know, background thing that is Intel only, it'll

00:19:19 ◼   ► pop up a notification in macOS and say, you know, this isn't Rosetta's going

00:19:22 ◼   ► away and this won't happen in Mac open in Mac OS twenty eight, blah

00:19:25 ◼   ► blah blah.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Are we still using printer drivers?

00:19:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I've I've found a bunch of them and I'm excising them.

00:19:30 ◼   ► But anyway, as many people have pointed out, this is one of the rare

00:19:35 ◼   ► occasions when Apple is officially saying there will be a macOS twenty-eight, which is

00:19:41 ◼   ► so dumb because everybody knows there's gonna be another version of macOS, just like

00:19:45 ◼   ► there's gonna be another version of iOS.

00:19:47 ◼   ► But Apple, in its way, is always so cagey if you say, like, well

00:19:51 ◼   ► well an iOS N plus one they're like, what are you talking about?

00:19:53 ◼   ► There's no iOS N plus one.

00:19:54 ◼   ► It's like, okay, but like if you were to make another version of iOS

00:19:58 ◼   ► that has the same number as the current one, both one more, like they'll

00:20:01 ◼   ► never admit that a future product is going to happen.

00:20:03 ◼   ► But here they are within mac os 27 saying that a thing called mac

00:20:07 ◼   ► OS twenty eight exists, which most of the time is, you know, I I

00:20:10 ◼   ► guess if for the number discontinuity, it would have been a spoiler to know

00:20:13 ◼   ► that they were going to jump from 15 to 26 or something.

00:20:16 ◼   ► But I this is a very, very rare and strange occurrence where they're not

00:20:20 ◼   ► saying in the next major version of Mac OS ever, they're saying Mac OS

00:20:24 ◼   ► twenty eight.

00:20:24 ◼   ► That's gonna be the name of a product.

00:20:25 ◼   ► They might as well have announced it.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Very un-app alike.

00:20:28 ◼   ► I'm surprised they didn't app store for mentioning a future uh

00:20:32 ◼   ► they've supposedly gotten better about that, but I still do because I've been burned

00:20:35 ◼   ► too many times.

00:20:36 ◼   ► I still do latest version of Mac OS, future version of Mac OS.

00:20:39 ◼   ► I never say the name.

00:20:40 ◼   ► Oh yeah, me too.

00:20:41 ◼   ► It's like it's like it's like, you know, it's like theater superstitions like never

00:20:44 ◼   ► say the name of a future OS.

00:20:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:46 ◼   ► And well, here's the thing.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Like, regardless of whether it's oh it's fine now they say it's fine.

00:20:50 ◼   ► They say a lot of things, first of all.

00:20:52 ◼   ► And second of all, the price of getting it wrong could be an extra

00:20:54 ◼   ► several days or a week of waiting.

00:20:55 ◼   ► And is it worth it?

00:20:57 ◼   ► No.

00:20:58 ◼   ► We are sponsored this week by Granola.

00:21:01 ◼   ► So I have an odd job, not the bad guy, but an unique job,

00:21:07 ◼   ► wherein I don't really have meetings, but we wanted to make sure that granola

00:21:12 ◼   ► was the real thing.

00:21:14 ◼   ► And so John and I had a meeting and we talked about ATP membership

00:21:18 ◼   ► stuff.

00:21:19 ◼   ► And we talked for like something like an hour or hour and a half.

00:21:22 ◼   ► And while we were talking, Renola was there listening and capturing meeting notes for

00:21:26 ◼   ► us.

00:21:26 ◼   ► And a transcript as well.

00:21:28 ◼   ► And this worked out really well because one of my big failings when I

00:21:32 ◼   ► had a jobby job was that I would oftentimes record the bare minimum amount

00:21:36 ◼   ► of action items, particularly for myself, that I would then look back on later

00:21:40 ◼   ► and be like, I have no idea what these words mean and I'm who

00:21:44 ◼   ► wrote them.

00:21:45 ◼   ► I lost the context completely.

00:21:46 ◼   ► So Granola is an AI-powered notepad that makes your meeting notes look useful.

00:21:50 ◼   ► It captures what happens in your meetings and turns it into clean, structured notes

00:21:54 ◼   ► with decisions and action items pulled out and made easy to find.

00:21:57 ◼   ► So like I said, action items are pulled out and made easy to find.

00:22:00 ◼   ► So at the bottom of the notes that granola gen generated for our meeting,

00:22:04 ◼   ► there's next steps.

00:22:05 ◼   ► And one of the next steps, I'm verbatim, is uh approve sponsor product in

00:22:10 ◼   ► the doc assigned to casey, which is exactly right.

00:22:13 ◼   ► That is one of the things that I needed to do.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And this is very helpful because not only does it tell me what I

00:22:19 ◼   ► need to do, but I can click on that line item and get a

00:22:22 ◼   ► trans uh transcription summary.

00:22:24 ◼   ► And then if I really want to go back to the actual transcript, I

00:22:27 ◼   ► can do that as well.

00:22:29 ◼   ► This makes it really hard for me to lose context, which is really, really

00:22:32 ◼   ► helpful.

00:22:34 ◼   ► So once you try it on a first meeting, it is hard to go

00:22:37 ◼   ► without.

00:22:38 ◼   ► You can try it totally free.

00:22:40 ◼   ► You can head to granola.ai slash ATP.

00:22:43 ◼   ► That's G-R-A-N-O-L-A.

00:22:47 ◼   ► To get your time back.

00:22:48 ◼   ► Go to granola.ai slash ATP and try it on your next call.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Thank you to Granola for sponsoring the show.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Hal Lee writes the M5 Ultra is the first Apple GPU to beat the

00:23:04 ◼   ► AMD 6900 XT, a GPU I once owned, and that was released in December

00:23:10 ◼   ► 2020.

00:23:11 ◼   ► It wasn't the top of the line at the time, NVIDIA had faster GPUs.

00:23:16 ◼   ► So looking at GeekPinch, the M3 Ultra with whatever this unit is, 232,267, the

00:23:23 ◼   ► Radeon RX 6900 XT 237,000 41.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And the M5 Ultra.

00:23:31 ◼   ► 350,305.

00:23:33 ◼   ► So congratulations to Apple Silicon for finally besting a six-year-old GPU that you could

00:23:40 ◼   ► put in a 2019 Mac Pro.

00:23:41 ◼   ► I'm excited.

00:23:43 ◼   ► All right.

00:23:43 ◼   ► New Mac minis have a some issues, caveats, if you will, about their storage.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Joe Rosignal at Mac Rumors writes: NAN storage in the new Mac Mini models

00:23:55 ◼   ► with the M6 and M5 Pro chips is soldered to the logic board.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Whereas the previous models with the M4 and M4 Pro chips have removable storage

00:24:02 ◼   ► that can be upgraded.

00:24:03 ◼   ► Uh M Marco.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Uh in addition, all new Mac mini configurations with 256 gigs of storage reportedly

00:24:10 ◼   ► have a single NAND chip rather than a pair of 128 gig chips.

00:24:14 ◼   ► As a result, 256 gig configurations have slower SSD speeds compared to configurations with

00:24:18 ◼   ► 512 gigs of storage or more that do have dual NAND chips, according to

00:24:23 ◼   ► uh some person who was doing some testing with blackmagic's disc speed test benchmark

00:24:29 ◼   ► tool.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Yeah it looks like a pure doubling like the five twelve has six point

00:24:33 ◼   ► four gigs per second compared to three point two and the m4 has two

00:24:36 ◼   ► point eight.

00:24:36 ◼   ► So even with the single chip, the the M61 is still faster than the

00:24:40 ◼   ► M4 one with the quote unquote good uh two one twenty eight's in them

00:24:44 ◼   ► or whatever, but it's worth knowing.

00:24:45 ◼   ► It doesn't matter for Marco's case, because he all he cares about is the

00:24:48 ◼   ► SOC, like he's not constrained by disk size or disk speeds or anything like

00:24:52 ◼   ► that, but just FYI, they cheaped out a little bit on the lowest end

00:24:55 ◼   ► uh M five with two fifty six gigs, if that matters to you.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Yeah and this is fairly common.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Apple does this a lot with their lower end products, like almost in almost

00:25:04 ◼   ► all of their products, the base storage uses fewer chips and therefore is slower

00:25:09 ◼   ► than the upgraded storage.

00:25:10 ◼   ► But they they did that and then they reversed it.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Remember the first time they did it, everyone made a big stink and then

00:25:14 ◼   ► like the next round of computers came back and they didn't do it.

00:25:16 ◼   ► We were like, Yay, they've doing that thing, but now they're back.

00:25:19 ◼   ► All right.

00:25:20 ◼   ► Uh the OS's twenty seven have a re-jiggered screen time situation.

00:25:27 ◼   ► Or so we're told.

00:25:28 ◼   ► A friend of the show, Stephen Robles, put up a great YouTube video about

00:25:32 ◼   ► many things but the end of it, uh we'll put a timestamp link in

00:25:35 ◼   ► the show notes.

00:25:35 ◼   ► At the end of it, Steven talks about this.

00:25:37 ◼   ► It requires every single device, I think in your family, if I understood him

00:25:42 ◼   ► right, to be upgraded, updated to a 27 OS.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Uh and if you've just got a new device, stolen device protection won't let

00:25:49 ◼   ► you remove old devices from the list without waiting five days first.

00:25:53 ◼   ► Uh in Steven's case, his mom is in his Apple family, but he doesn't

00:25:56 ◼   ► have anything to do with her screen time specifically.

00:25:59 ◼   ► However, because she's part of the family, she also has to update to OS

00:26:03 ◼   ► twenty-seven before uh before Steven can use any of the new screen time features

00:26:07 ◼   ► for anyone in his family.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And then also, what happens to older devices that can't go to twenty-seven?

00:26:13 ◼   ► Do you never, ever, ever get the new screen time stuff?

00:26:16 ◼   ► Like this I get that y you have to draw a line in the

00:26:19 ◼   ► sand if you've jiggered like how this data is stored or whatever, but this

00:26:23 ◼   ► kind of stinks.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Yeah, and the mystery about it is like, I mean, it if if you

00:26:26 ◼   ► have old devices, it doesn't stop you from updating to the new screen time

00:26:30 ◼   ► features.

00:26:30 ◼   ► But then his question was, can I no longer control screen time on those

00:26:34 ◼   ► devices?

00:26:35 ◼   ► Like they just become uncontrolled and only the twenty seven devices?

00:26:38 ◼   ► He was comparing it to like Home Kit.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Remember when they did the HomeKit architecture change where you had all these prompts

00:26:42 ◼   ► where like, so you want to convert your home to the new home kit

00:26:45 ◼   ► architecture or whatever?

00:26:46 ◼   ► But that wasn't as restrictive.

00:26:47 ◼   ► But this like I mean, so the two things are combining.

00:26:49 ◼   ► He was annoyed 'cause he's trying to put out a video like day day

00:26:52 ◼   ► and date of the uh iOS twenty seven coming out.

00:26:54 ◼   ► And the stolen device protection is like, hey, you just got this device.

00:26:57 ◼   ► You don't have enough time in this device for us to let you start

00:27:00 ◼   ► removing devices from an Apple ID.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Like that's a security thing if someone snatches your phone in an unlock state

00:27:04 ◼   ► or whatever, like uh to stop you stop them from like deleting all the

00:27:08 ◼   ► devices off of your Apple ID so you don't have any control anymore.

00:27:11 ◼   ► So I get why that protection is there, but he can't remove that means

00:27:14 ◼   ► he's got to wait five days, which is an eternity in YouTube time.

00:27:17 ◼   ► So that was annoying him.

00:27:18 ◼   ► And then like having to have you know his mom is part of his

00:27:21 ◼   ► like Apple family thing but he he doesn't want to control her screen time,

00:27:24 ◼   ► but she has to update.

00:27:25 ◼   ► They won't let him he can't see any of the new features.

00:27:28 ◼   ► He can't upgrade anything until everybody every device that can be upgraded to twenty

00:27:32 ◼   ► seven is updated to twenty seven.

00:27:34 ◼   ► And And who knows, maybe those features he won't even care or care about

00:27:37 ◼   ► them or like them.

00:27:38 ◼   ► But this is just this sort of like I mean, this is a transient

00:27:40 ◼   ► problem.

00:27:40 ◼   ► This will go away in a few years when everybody's devices are updated and

00:27:43 ◼   ► like this will solve itself.

00:27:44 ◼   ► It's not a big deal, but it is kind of frustrating for one of

00:27:46 ◼   ► the headlining features.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Like it got its own section in the like and the WWC keynote about

00:27:51 ◼   ► all about the screen time things, they did not emphasize that this is one

00:27:54 ◼   ► of those things that you're not going to be able to use unless everybody

00:27:57 ◼   ► updates.

00:27:58 ◼   ► All right.

00:27:59 ◼   ► Uh I was

00:28:02 ◼   ► trying to figure out just a day or two back, why was my pie

00:28:06 ◼   ► hole did not seem to be working, particularly on my iPhone?

00:28:10 ◼   ► I was getting loads of advertisements.

00:28:12 ◼   ► And let me tell you, if you haven't done I swear to God.

00:28:17 ◼   ► I swear to God, this just happened.

00:28:19 ◼   ► I just got a text from Aaron.

00:28:21 ◼   ► True story.

00:28:22 ◼   ► It literally just happened.

00:28:23 ◼   ► It says the following My phone is inundated with ads, with like the raised

00:28:27 ◼   ► eyebrow emoji.

00:28:28 ◼   ► I could not have planned that better.

00:28:31 ◼   ► I hand on heart, that literally just came in as I was trying to

00:28:34 ◼   ► talk.

00:28:34 ◼   ► Did somebody uh shut your pie hole?

00:28:38 ◼   ► You could say that exactly.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Oh my god.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Uh though I I I'm shook that this just happened.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Uh I I I'm like completely blue screen now.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Uh so anyway, so sorry, let me try that.

00:28:49 ◼   ► We're gonna leave it in.

00:28:49 ◼   ► We're gonna leave it in, Marco.

00:28:50 ◼   ► It's gonna leave it in.

00:28:51 ◼   ► So yeah, I was trying to figure out why the pie hole was not

00:28:55 ◼   ► really working.

00:28:55 ◼   ► Now Aaron is asking the same question.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Um it wasn't working, particularly on my phone.

00:29:00 ◼   ► And the most obvious place I saw this is well, if you ever go

00:29:04 ◼   ► to any news related website where you have an advertisement every other paragraph.

00:29:07 ◼   ► Or any website these days.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Go to any website to do anything.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Um but I noticed this most especially, it was most concrete when I did

00:29:16 ◼   ► Wordle in the morning, because typically, you know, you I will say play Wordle

00:29:20 ◼   ► and it'll show you an interstitial and with the pie hole you'll see advertisement.

00:29:24 ◼   ► And you wait a couple of seconds and then you can click continue.

00:29:27 ◼   ► Um the then you would you would just go and play your wordle.

00:29:32 ◼   ► But in this case, I'm seeing like video advertisements.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Like what is happening This is driving me baddie.

00:29:38 ◼   ► And I was going to bring it up on the show at some point,

00:29:40 ◼   ► but I hadn't around to it.

00:29:41 ◼   ► I've been very busy recently.

00:29:41 ◼   ► We all have very bit been bit very busy recently.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Um and all of a sudden I got copied on a tweet or a

00:29:49 ◼   ► toot or whatever.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Uh which originated with DAS Fuller, D-A-Z-F-U-L-L-E-R.

00:29:54 ◼   ► And it reads as follows: In the latest version of iOS, there's something called

00:29:58 ◼   ► connectivity assist.

00:29:59 ◼   ► We're gonna come back to that in a second.

00:30:00 ◼   ► If you're running a pie holer similar, then this seems to be bypassing it

00:30:04 ◼   ► by routing the rejected requests over mobile data instead.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Even the text below the settings says you should probably turn it off if

00:30:11 ◼   ► you're running an ad blocker.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So connectivity assist, I was all in for before I knew this.

00:30:17 ◼   ► And what connectivity Assist says is, well, if you're trying if the phone is

00:30:20 ◼   ► trying to cling to Wi Fi, but just it ain't working, go ahead and

00:30:24 ◼   ► just go to mobile data.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And they tried this like 10 years ago or something like that, under a

00:30:28 ◼   ► different name.

00:30:28 ◼   ► I forget what it was called.

00:30:29 ◼   ► And it never really worked right.

00:30:30 ◼   ► And this was one of the kind of headline features of iOS twenty-seven was

00:30:34 ◼   ► your phone is going to do better about releasing Wi-Fi.

00:30:36 ◼   ► And I guess this is w the primary way in which it does that.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Well, as it turns out, what I think is happening is when it's getting

00:30:44 ◼   ► no good response from DNS for a lot of these queries, because the way

00:30:48 ◼   ► Pi Hole works is it'll give you like nothing better.

00:30:51 ◼   ► I think it responds with like a, I don't know what that is, when

00:30:54 ◼   ► when your device does a DNS request for something that it knows is an

00:30:57 ◼   ► advertiser.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Well, apparently uh the iPhone or whatever iOS device is saying, Hey, all right,

00:31:02 ◼   ► I'll go to mobile data instead, which is not at all what you want.

00:31:06 ◼   ► And I'll give you one guess what happened when I turned it off.

00:31:09 ◼   ► Then all of a sudden it all started working again, just like it had

00:31:11 ◼   ► been before iOS 27.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Now, for another show, Aaron Vay, who writes, uh is one of the authors

00:31:18 ◼   ► of Indigo, which is my preferred um blue sky and mastodon client.

00:31:22 ◼   ► Aaron writes: this is not a new feature, it's the Wi-Fi assist from previous

00:31:25 ◼   ► versions renamed and turned on by default.

00:31:27 ◼   ► I run PyHole in my home network and started seeing ads on my devices.

00:31:30 ◼   ► This is why.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Think about this.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Apple enabled a feature that sees a block while downloading ad stuff, then reaches

00:31:36 ◼   ► out through the cellular network to get it.

00:31:38 ◼   ► I understand to a degree how Apple landed here.

00:31:41 ◼   ► Don't love it though, and let me tell you, I got I was in

00:31:44 ◼   ► a much better spot once I turned this off.

00:31:46 ◼   ► And now Erin will be too after I can tell her about it.

00:31:50 ◼   ► Yeah I think I would still leave this feature on.

00:31:52 ◼   ► I mean uh obviously the alternative is like pie holes like solve the problem

00:31:55 ◼   ► once for everybody in your house because all the DNS will go through the

00:31:58 ◼   ► pie hole and problem solved.

00:31:59 ◼   ► But the other alternative is run ad blockers on your individual devices, which is

00:32:03 ◼   ► more annoying, but also doesn't run a foul of this situation and I I

00:32:08 ◼   ► think I want this because very often like if I'm leaving the house to

00:32:11 ◼   ► walk the dog the my I have seen my various past iPhones uh struggle

00:32:16 ◼   ► to decide should I cling to the Wi-Fi that I can still get through

00:32:19 ◼   ► the wall of the house as I walk down the block or should I

00:32:22 ◼   ► switch to cellular?

00:32:23 ◼   ► So if I'm doing like a FaceTime call or I'm on like a a

00:32:25 ◼   ► regular uh you know, doing anything where I'm like talking to somebody or videoing

00:32:29 ◼   ► with somebody while I walk the dog, you can see the part where it's

00:32:31 ◼   ► like, I don't know, should I be trying to get that one little bar

00:32:34 ◼   ► of Wi-Fi from the house or should I give up and use cellular and

00:32:37 ◼   ► like just give up and use cellular.

00:32:38 ◼   ► We're going for a walk, but it it struggles.

00:32:40 ◼   ► So I I like that feature.

00:32:43 ◼   ► I like this previously named Wi Fi assist now called connectivity assist.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And if it was interfering with my ad blocking which is not because I

00:32:49 ◼   ► don't have a pie hole, I would just switch to using something on device.

00:32:52 ◼   ► Like that's how much I want that feature, more than the uh the the

00:32:55 ◼   ► hassle of having to run an ad blocker as an individual device, which for

00:32:58 ◼   ► me is not much of a block of a big thing.

00:33:00 ◼   ► Cause if you use like one blocker, it's on Mac, it's on iPad, it's

00:33:03 ◼   ► iOS.

00:33:03 ◼   ► If you're an all Apple house, you can get one app and it'll take

00:33:06 ◼   ► you pretty far.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I I totally get why that juice may be worth a

00:33:10 ◼   ► squeeze for you, but for me, absolutely turned it off and immediately was so

00:33:14 ◼   ► much happier when I did it.

00:33:16 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:17 ◼   ► Um, this is a little bit of a journey, just like that last topic

00:33:20 ◼   ► ended up being, actually.

00:33:21 ◼   ► But um there was some news about GM and CarPlay.

00:33:26 ◼   ► Um I didn't put this in the show notes, I'm pr I presume John

00:33:29 ◼   ► did, but uh, I'm gonna tell you something that I wrote on my blog

00:33:31 ◼   ► a couple of days ago.

00:33:32 ◼   ► Uh I wrote just shy of a year ago, GM CEO Mary Barra extended

00:33:36 ◼   ► this lunacy edict to that they will never do any more car play in

00:33:40 ◼   ► their cars, to include all future internal combustion vehicles as well.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Unsurprisingly, this did not end well.

00:33:45 ◼   ► The backlash was immediate and the data was brutal.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Uh surveys at the time found 79% of new car buyers would only consider

00:33:52 ◼   ► a vehicle that offered car play and that it was available on 98% of

00:33:54 ◼   ► new cars sold.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Dealers warned buyers would simply walk to a rival showroom Forgive me, that was

00:33:59 ◼   ► a quote from somewhere I don't have my own blog post in front of

00:34:01 ◼   ► me at the moment.

00:34:01 ◼   ► I'm going off our show notes.

00:34:03 ◼   ► Anyway, coming back to my blog post.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Well, look who didn't about face after realizing they scored a tremendous own goal.

00:34:08 ◼   ► And again, from whatever I source I quoted, this week GM unveiled a new

00:34:13 ◼   ► infotainment interface debuting on the 2027 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC CR pickups that folds

00:34:19 ◼   ► smartphone integr uh smartphone projection back into the dashboard and runs alongside GM's native

00:34:24 ◼   ► system.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Well, look at us.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Look at us.

00:34:28 ◼   ► We knew it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► We called it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► We told you you were idiots.

00:34:31 ◼   ► The internet was aflame in the happy way for once.

00:34:35 ◼   ► Uh, about how exciting this was.

00:34:37 ◼   ► The GM was finally getting a friggin' grip.

00:34:40 ◼   ► That was whatever day the 21st was.

00:34:42 ◼   ► That was Monday.

00:34:44 ◼   ► Then later that same day, after I posted my blog post later on Monday,

00:34:49 ◼   ► reading from Joe Ross Ignol at Mac Rumors, GM wants you to know it

00:34:52 ◼   ► still plans to ditch Apple CarPlay in future EVs

00:34:56 ◼   ► Joe says.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Recent reports claiming that General Motors is reversing course on its controversial plans to

00:35:01 ◼   ► ditch CarPlay in its future EVs appear to be incorrect.

00:35:04 ◼   ► As noted by Joanna Stern in her New Things YouTube channel, a GM spokesperson

00:35:08 ◼   ► has confirmed that its new software interface that shows CarPlayer Android Auto alongside its

00:35:13 ◼   ► own native system in 2027 models of pickups is specific to the gas-powered versions

00:35:17 ◼   ► of those pickup trucks.

00:35:18 ◼   ► GM Previously stated that CarPlane Android Auto would continue to be offered in its

00:35:22 ◼   ► new gas-powered vehicles for the foreseeable future.

00:35:24 ◼   ► So the 2027 models of those trucks still supporting these platforms is not a

00:35:28 ◼   ► change.

00:35:29 ◼   ► Of course, boo this man.

00:35:31 ◼   ► Not Joe.

00:35:32 ◼   ► I guess I should say boo Mary.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Uh boo that person.

00:35:36 ◼   ► Uh so I did post a Miya culpa on my website earlier today.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Uh but I I really, really hate this.

00:35:42 ◼   ► And uh just to be clear, on my Mia Culpa, I have been keeping

00:35:45 ◼   ► track of the sorts of devices that you can get car play on.

00:35:48 ◼   ► So you can get it on most new cars, as we talked about, at

00:35:51 ◼   ► all kinds of different price points.

00:35:54 ◼   ► I'd forgotten to note, and this has been true for years now, but I'd

00:35:57 ◼   ► forgotten to note that several motorcycles have them.

00:35:59 ◼   ► Uh I picked out like the Honda Goldwing and the Harley Road Glide as

00:36:02 ◼   ► two examples.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Those are larger, more luxury bikes, but it's not just them.

00:36:06 ◼   ► You can get the get it on boats.

00:36:09 ◼   ► The I think it's Mastercraft.

00:36:10 ◼   ► Yes, Mastercraft has announced that they will do it on some of their boats.

00:36:14 ◼   ► And and you can have CarPlay in your fing shower.

00:36:18 ◼   ► That is not a joke.

00:36:20 ◼   ► Upbeat Sound Company at UpbeatSound.com, not a sponsor, makes like one of those dinguses

00:36:26 ◼   ► that you would put in, I don't know maybe a Rivian uh that you

00:36:29 ◼   ► stick to your shower wall and it has speakers on it and you get

00:36:33 ◼   ► a CarPlay interface, like a waterproof car water resistant carPlay interface in your shower.

00:36:39 ◼   ► This is 100% a true story.

00:36:41 ◼   ► It's kind of awesome.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Oh it's incredible.

00:36:43 ◼   ► I kinda want one.

00:36:44 ◼   ► I I kinda want one.

00:36:45 ◼   ► But uh I want to be able to text for my shower though.

00:36:47 ◼   ► I don't want to be like, keep your eyes on the road and like

00:36:49 ◼   ► I'm not going anywhere.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Like I should be able to text.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Does it work with wet hands?

00:36:52 ◼   ► Like because normally I would assume normally touch screens don't.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Like you know what I know but the point is if it has like

00:36:58 ◼   ► a resistive touch screen, it could be pressure sensitive.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:01 ◼   ► Whatever it takes, maybe.

00:37:03 ◼   ► And by the way, there's a there's this entire family out there of like

00:37:06 ◼   ► hundredish dollar little tablets that run car play that are made to be stuck

00:37:10 ◼   ► in a car or like a Rivian.

00:37:11 ◼   ► And and like I've I've I that's what I use now for testing overcast

00:37:14 ◼   ► car play stuff because it's easy and it's on my desk.

00:37:17 ◼   ► And they're fine and they're cheap and they work just fine.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Yeah, it's bananas.

00:37:21 ◼   ► So just to recap, almost every new car, a bunch of new motorcycles boats

00:37:27 ◼   ► and showers, but not Rivian and not GM EVs.

00:37:31 ◼   ► Great work, guys.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Just just stellar work.

00:37:33 ◼   ► Really proud of you.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Well no everyone was getting all excited about this.

00:37:36 ◼   ► And like, don't you guys remember this is not a change, but they like

00:37:38 ◼   ► you said the follow up story came like moments later.

00:37:41 ◼   ► So it's like okay, everyone will be corrected.

00:37:42 ◼   ► So I couldn't save you, Casey, but I could have told you if you

00:37:44 ◼   ► were told me you're writing that, I would have said, This is not a

00:37:46 ◼   ► change, this is just them continuing what they said they were gonna do.

00:37:49 ◼   ► You know, and I thought this, but everyone was so excited.

00:37:51 ◼   ► I read a few things and I was like, Oh, I guess I'm wrong

00:37:53 ◼   ► forgotten.

00:37:53 ◼   ► Well, so here's here's the thing about it.

00:37:55 ◼   ► All right.

00:37:55 ◼   ► So those those are the facts as you've read them.

00:37:58 ◼   ► But reading between the lines, as you noted, I think this experiment is currently

00:38:03 ◼   ► not going well for GM.

00:38:05 ◼   ► So start your timers, right?

00:38:07 ◼   ► At a certain point, there'll be a change in leadership or they'll have a

00:38:11 ◼   ► change of heart.

00:38:12 ◼   ► Like I think this does I think the longer this goes on, the more

00:38:15 ◼   ► likely they are to eventually reverse, especially if Tesla ever actually goes through with

00:38:19 ◼   ► their supposed plans to add car play.

00:38:21 ◼   ► Like I don't just because they're that this is still the status quo does

00:38:26 ◼   ► not mean that every day that passes makes everyone realize inside and outside of

00:38:30 ◼   ► GM what a stupid move this was.

00:38:32 ◼   ► So I think it You know, despite the fact that this is not an

00:38:36 ◼   ► actual change, it's not going well for them.

00:38:39 ◼   ► No.

00:38:39 ◼   ► And the thing that blows my mind is that if you're Rivian, if your

00:38:45 ◼   ► primary competitor, at least in people's minds, maybe not like literal competitor, but I

00:38:50 ◼   ► feel like almost everyone I know that's even vaguely interested in Rivian in is

00:38:54 ◼   ► at least considering cross-shopping Tesla.

00:38:57 ◼   ► If you're Rivian, why wouldn't you use this as a differentiator?

00:39:02 ◼   ► And one of my earlier blog posts on this subject, because I've been banging

00:39:05 ◼   ► this drum for tr uh banging this drum for a while now, is that

00:39:09 ◼   ► um the Wasim Ben Said, I think is his name, who is like the

00:39:13 ◼   ► CTO uh at Rivian, was on, I want to say it was decoder, it

00:39:16 ◼   ► was one of the great Verge podcasts and said, Well it's it takes over

00:39:20 ◼   ► your screen.

00:39:20 ◼   ► That's why we can't do it.

00:39:22 ◼   ► It doesn't though.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Like CarPlay CarPlay Ultra does, but regular CarPlay doesn't.

00:39:27 ◼   ► It in in my BMW now.

00:39:30 ◼   ► It uses most of the screen, but not all of it.

00:39:32 ◼   ► In in Erin's Volvo, in her old Volvo, it used like a half the

00:39:36 ◼   ► screen.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Now it uses the majority of the screen, but not all of it.

00:39:39 ◼   ► And so if you're Rivian, why would you not use this as a differentiator?

00:39:43 ◼   ► It's friggin' additive.

00:39:45 ◼   ► If your infotainment is so frickin' great, then no one will use it.

00:39:49 ◼   ► And it's fine.

00:39:50 ◼   ► What does it hurt you?

00:39:52 ◼   ► Why would you not use that as a differentiator?

00:39:54 ◼   ► It blows my mind.

00:39:56 ◼   ► And so I there's been rumblings as John said, there's been at least a

00:39:59 ◼   ► moderate amount of smoke, which makes you think there's that Tesla is potentially going

00:40:03 ◼   ► to juice their, as far as I understand, pretty bad sales these days, because

00:40:07 ◼   ► hey, guess what?

00:40:08 ◼   ► The CEO is a fing maniac.

00:40:10 ◼   ► Um But anyway, they're trying to juice their sales potentially by adding CarPlay.

00:40:15 ◼   ► And then I think John is exactly right.

00:40:17 ◼   ► The second that happens, Rivian is going to suddenly discover that all of their

00:40:21 ◼   ► issues with CarPlay just magically disappear.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And I think GM will also do the same thing.

00:40:27 ◼   ► But why would you not differentiate?

00:40:29 ◼   ► Why would you not do it now?

00:40:30 ◼   ► It drives me batty.

00:40:32 ◼   ► This is on the long list of things that I get very worked up

00:40:34 ◼   ► about that I really shouldn't, but I just don't understand what they're doing it's

00:40:40 ◼   ► and again it's add to additive if your infotainment is so freaking spectacular then

00:40:46 ◼   ► maybe your owners won't use it maybe what'll happen is all these people like

00:40:50 ◼   ► i don't know me who refuse to buy a car without car play will

00:40:54 ◼   ► buy the Rivian and then see, you know what?

00:40:56 ◼   ► Maybe I don't need this after all.

00:40:58 ◼   ► But at least now I've gotten in the door.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Like I just don't get what they're doing here for such an admirable company.

00:41:05 ◼   ► It's it's it's in so many ways, Rivian to me anyway, seems like Tesla,

00:41:10 ◼   ► but not evil.

00:41:11 ◼   ► So why wouldn't you do this?

00:41:13 ◼   ► I just don't understand it drives me batty.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Yeah, and and I think once Tesla does it, like you know, there's I

00:41:19 ◼   ► think there's enough smoke behind that, like, that it's probably gonna happen.

00:41:23 ◼   ► And you know, you start you see like Apple made a few changes in

00:41:26 ◼   ► the latest couple iOS versions that seem like they're aimed at getting Tesla on

00:41:30 ◼   ► board with CarPlay.

00:41:31 ◼   ► Like it it it looks like it's probably going to happen.

00:41:34 ◼   ► The only question is when.

00:41:36 ◼   ► Uh but once Tesla caves, I first of all, I think it will be

00:41:41 ◼   ► a big deal.

00:41:42 ◼   ► I think it will be a big deal to their sales.

00:41:44 ◼   ► I think Apple will want to brag about it.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Um and and I think that is a huge thing that buyers look for

00:41:49 ◼   ► in new cars.

00:41:50 ◼   ► And so once Tesla caves, it's only a matter of time before Rivian does.

00:41:54 ◼   ► But I think it will take that.

00:41:56 ◼   ► Like I don't think Rivian is going to change their mind until and unless

00:41:59 ◼   ► Tesla caves.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Oh, I agree.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Which is so dumb.

00:42:01 ◼   ► It's so dumb.

00:42:02 ◼   ► And I'll say and I honestly, I love the idea of going back to

00:42:06 ◼   ► Rivian in the future.

00:42:07 ◼   ► Like, you know, 'cause the only reason I got rid of my Rivian was

00:42:09 ◼   ► because it was a service nightmare, 'cause it was such a young company and

00:42:12 ◼   ► it had a lot of little bugs that couldn't fix for twelve weeks or

00:42:15 ◼   ► whatever it was.

00:42:16 ◼   ► But um I would love to go back to Revune in the future.

00:42:19 ◼   ► Like I I I still miss things about it.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Um and I still really respect what they're doing as a company and their

00:42:27 ◼   ► vehicles are very capable.

00:42:28 ◼   ► And very appealing to me.

00:42:30 ◼   ► Um, but one thing I don't miss is having to put my phone in

00:42:32 ◼   ► a stupid dock next to the dashboard and you know, having to operate little

00:42:37 ◼   ► tiny phone apps manually with my hands because I because there's no car play

00:42:40 ◼   ► and there's and their maps sucked and you know, there's no overcast and there's

00:42:44 ◼   ► no other like it everything about the infotainment thing was terrible.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Um, and I know I've heard that they have better maps now, which that's

00:42:54 ◼   ► great, but what you don't have is any maps.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Like you don't you don't give me the ability to use any map app

00:43:00 ◼   ► I want.

00:43:00 ◼   ► What if I like Waze better than Google Maps or Apple Maps better than

00:43:03 ◼   ► Google Maps?

00:43:04 ◼   ► Like whatever it is.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Like if if what I want is not exactly the one app that you've

00:43:09 ◼   ► selected to build a half-assed version of in your infotainment system, then it's a

00:43:14 ◼   ► bad experience for me.

00:43:15 ◼   ► And what are the odds that you're gonna guess right on everyone's preferences?

00:43:20 ◼   ► I said it before, never bet against the smartphone.

00:43:23 ◼   ► And the good thing is you don't have to.

00:43:25 ◼   ► You can like and every other car company has figured this out.

00:43:28 ◼   ► Like just show the phone thing in the window.

00:43:31 ◼   ► And that's and it's fine.

00:43:33 ◼   ► And no other car company has had any problems just doing that.

00:43:38 ◼   ► And the customers love it.

00:43:40 ◼   ► So it's only a matter of time before Tesla, you know, needs that needs

00:43:44 ◼   ► to to juice their sales that way.

00:43:45 ◼   ► 'Cause they you know, as you mentioned, they're uh they're always looking for something

00:43:50 ◼   ► and 'cause there's they're always getting themselves into trouble.

00:43:53 ◼   ► And uh yeah.

00:43:54 ◼   ► And and the thing is and I I I so hope that, you know,

00:43:59 ◼   ► like I I have one more year on my lease.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Next year, next next summer I'm picking a new car.

00:44:05 ◼   ► I don't think Rivian's gonna come around by then, but maybe the one after

00:44:09 ◼   ► that.

00:44:09 ◼   ► I would love to go back to Rivian, like three years after that.

00:44:12 ◼   ► Maybe by then they'll have a nice big service network.

00:44:14 ◼   ► The R three and the R three X will be out and they'll be

00:44:17 ◼   ► super fun and maybe they'll have CarPlay.

00:44:19 ◼   ► One can dream.

00:44:20 ◼   ► Yep.

00:44:21 ◼   ► No, I agree.

00:44:21 ◼   ► I could I agree with you completely.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And here's the thing.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Let's take it as writ that both Tesla and andor And or Rivian infotainment

00:44:30 ◼   ► is without equal.

00:44:31 ◼   ► I don't care if it's both of them, one of them.

00:44:33 ◼   ► It doesn't matter.

00:44:33 ◼   ► Let's just let's say Rivian is without equal.

00:44:35 ◼   ► Let's say it's better than Tesla.

00:44:36 ◼   ► I don't.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Let's say it's the best infotainment in any automobile.

00:44:40 ◼   ► Let's say that's the case.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Do they have overcast support, Marco?

00:44:44 ◼   ► No, of course not.

00:44:45 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:45 ◼   ► And they never will.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Because it's never worth it is never gonna be worth either Tesla or me

00:44:51 ◼   ► building that.

00:44:52 ◼   ► Or Rivian, but yeah, yeah.

00:44:54 ◼   ► We're saying the same thing.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And there's so many uh like if when I plug in my phone to

00:44:59 ◼   ► CarPlay, I don't just see three apps.

00:45:02 ◼   ► There's like forty apps on there, right?

00:45:05 ◼   ► There's so like Audible has an app, like there's so many, like every map

00:45:09 ◼   ► app has one.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Like InstaPaper has an app that'll read articles to you.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Like there's so like there's stuff you would never even think about.

00:45:16 ◼   ► The AI uh providers are now having CarPlay apps.

00:45:19 ◼   ► WhatsApp has a car play app.

00:45:20 ◼   ► There's so many.

00:45:22 ◼   ► There's no way any car maker is ever going to cover them all.

00:45:26 ◼   ► And they don't need to.

00:45:28 ◼   ► So again, it's that's just a self-created problem.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:31 ◼   ► That's the thing, is that even if Rivian's infotainment is miles better than everything

00:45:36 ◼   ► else out there.

00:45:37 ◼   ► Let's say it's better than CarPlay.

00:45:39 ◼   ► But the problem is if I want to go and switch what podcast I'm

00:45:43 ◼   ► listening to in Overcast while connected to a Rivian, maybe I'm ignorant and maybe

00:45:48 ◼   ► I'm missing the point here, but as far as I know, I would need

00:45:51 ◼   ► to pick up my phone and use Overcast.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Or if they supported CarPlay, I could pop over to CarPlay for a moment

00:45:59 ◼   ► if it's not already up, Do what I need to do in Overcast and

00:46:02 ◼   ► then pop back to Rivian's infotainment.

00:46:04 ◼   ► Like I just, I don't understand what they're thinking.

00:46:07 ◼   ► And as you said, Marco, and it's exactly on the nose, every one of

00:46:11 ◼   ► us has a different array of apps that we want to use in the

00:46:16 ◼   ► car.

00:46:16 ◼   ► I want to use Overcast.

00:46:18 ◼   ► I don't use Waze, and I don't typically use Google Maps, so that doesn't.

00:46:22 ◼   ► But I want to use Overcast.

00:46:24 ◼   ► Marco, well presumably you want to use Overcast, but you also use Waze.

00:46:28 ◼   ► And that's fine.

00:46:29 ◼   ► That's beauty of CarPlay, is that we don't have to all agree, as you

00:46:33 ◼   ► said, on the same six friggin' apps.

00:46:35 ◼   ► It's just I don't get it.

00:46:37 ◼   ► And it drives me so baddie.

00:46:38 ◼   ► It's just such I guess hubris for lack of a better word.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I don't know it's just it it's it it it's deciding in Rivian's headquarters

00:46:45 ◼   ► that they know better than you.

00:46:47 ◼   ► And that's so frustrating.

00:46:49 ◼   ► And you know what I've heard a very smart man say from time to

00:46:51 ◼   ► time.

00:46:52 ◼   ► In fact, as recently as like five minutes ago, don't bet against the smartphone.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I love how fired up you get about this.

00:46:59 ◼   ► This is you're so anxious.

00:47:01 ◼   ► So dumb.

00:47:01 ◼   ► It's so dumb.

00:47:02 ◼   ► And and the Rivian uh guy, you know, he's he is very he's very

00:47:06 ◼   ► calm and soft spoken.

00:47:08 ◼   ► He's like, Well, we believe this is a better experience.

00:47:10 ◼   ► And and I can add I don't get all fired up like Casey about

00:47:13 ◼   ► this.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I can very calmly address an idea, I believe it's not.

00:47:16 ◼   ► Right.

00:47:17 ◼   ► And therefore I believe I'll buy a different car.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Exact and that's exactly it.

00:47:20 ◼   ► Like I genuinely I think I've said this a couple times on the show.

00:47:23 ◼   ► I genuinely, even though I just got a car, I will probably put a

00:47:26 ◼   ► deposit down on an R3 because I want the or the R3X specifically, because

00:47:30 ◼   ► I just think that would be such an amazing car.

00:47:32 ◼   ► It's like little hatchback-y thing that's supposed to be like a little hot rod

00:47:35 ◼   ► hatchback like my golf r it looks so cool it looks so freaking cool

00:47:39 ◼   ► and having driven a couple of R1 S or I I've driven one or

00:47:43 ◼   ► two R1 S's and an R1T and I love the whole vibe of Rivian.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Like everything about it I love.

00:47:51 ◼   ► Like the the concrete things and the not so concrete things.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And I can absolutely see myself driving a Rivian, but I will not freaking

00:47:58 ◼   ► do it without car play.

00:48:00 ◼   ► So I will probably put a deposit down when they're willing to take them.

00:48:03 ◼   ► And if they don't cave on this, which I think Marco's at least a

00:48:06 ◼   ► year or two away, then I will ask for my money back or or

00:48:09 ◼   ► maybe I will just sacrifice, you know, whatever that money is because I will

00:48:12 ◼   ► not buy a car without car play.

00:48:13 ◼   ► I just won't do it.

00:48:15 ◼   ► John, am I crazy?

00:48:16 ◼   ► Yes, but not for this reason.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Fair.

00:48:19 ◼   ► Very good.

00:48:19 ◼   ► My car doesn't have car play either, you know.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Yeah, well, it's time for you to get a new car.

00:48:24 ◼   ► Um, all right.

00:48:25 ◼   ► We are in an in-between-ish area where you could squint and say this is

00:48:29 ◼   ► follow-up, maybe this is a topic.

00:48:31 ◼   ► I don't we'll see what I end up deciding in the show notes.

00:48:33 ◼   ► But we're in that kind of gray zone.

00:48:35 ◼   ► And what we're gonna talk about is uh the Apple Watch and it listening

00:48:39 ◼   ► to you and we're going to start with some feedback from Steve Riggins, who

00:48:42 ◼   ► writes, I'm not sure why Marco is so concerned over the new Siri audio

00:48:45 ◼   ► features when voice memos have been sitting there for years.

00:48:48 ◼   ► It only automatically records the last 15 seconds as new feature.

00:48:51 ◼   ► Only automatically records the last fifty fifteen seconds.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Otherwise, it's not as bad as voice memos, which just records audio flat out

00:48:59 ◼   ► basically forever.

00:49:00 ◼   ► So the main difference between the the proposed or the the announced Siri replay

00:49:06 ◼   ► and Siri rewind features is that they're always recording.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Voice memos requires the the user to explicitly decide I'm gonna open up the

00:49:17 ◼   ► Voice Memos app and have And hit record and I'm recording.

00:49:21 ◼   ► That is a different level of thing than something that is always record than

00:49:27 ◼   ► a product that just always records all the time without you initiating the recording.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Now, there's all sorts of

00:49:34 ◼   ► you know, there there's all sorts of opinions and laws about whether it is

00:49:39 ◼   ► right to record people around you possibly without their knowledge, or whether somebody can

00:49:43 ◼   ► record, can like leave a recording device somewhere and record the people around it

00:49:46 ◼   ► with none of their knowledge.

00:49:47 ◼   ► There's lots of laws and opinions about that.

00:49:50 ◼   ► Um but I think for this particular question, that that distinction almost doesn't matter.

00:49:56 ◼   ► It's when when you are deciding I'm I'm taking out my phone and I'm

00:50:01 ◼   ► hitting record on this app and I'm making a recording, that is a very

00:50:05 ◼   ► different degree of surveillance and recording than a product that is always doing it

00:50:11 ◼   ► in the background.

00:50:12 ◼   ► So my follow-up to this to Steve's question was so let's think about hey

00:50:16 ◼   ► Siri.

00:50:16 ◼   ► Sorry, I just did it.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Hey Dingus, whatever.

00:50:19 ◼   ► Um, which has existed for years and years on phones, right?

00:50:22 ◼   ► Um that technically works in a very similar manner, in that you may be

00:50:27 ◼   ► wondering especially when they first roll this out, how does it know when I

00:50:30 ◼   ► say hey Dingus?

00:50:32 ◼   ► Is it always listening?

00:50:33 ◼   ► And the answer is yes, it's always listening.

00:50:37 ◼   ► And it technically, you know, s setting aside the secure exclave or whatever, it's

00:50:41 ◼   ► a similar type of thing where there's some very low power corner of the

00:50:45 ◼   ► logic board or potentially chip that has a tiny little buffer that's constantly recording

00:50:51 ◼   ► audio through the microphone in a very low power state, and the hey dingus

00:50:55 ◼   ► one is saying I'm just gonna be constantly recording a a couple of seconds

00:50:58 ◼   ► of audio and I'm just gonna be looking at it saying, Did this eh

00:51:01 ◼   ► siri?

00:51:01 ◼   ► Did this a hey Siri?

00:51:02 ◼   ► Sorry, I can't do this a Siri, did this a that's all that's all

00:51:05 ◼   ► it's doing all the time.

00:51:06 ◼   ► And they change it to eventually look for just just the word without the

00:51:09 ◼   ► hey but that's all it's just it's constantly quote unquote recording as in taking

00:51:14 ◼   ► in digital audio taking in audio analog audio, converting it to digital, and it

00:51:18 ◼   ► has some buffer of you know the past one or two or three seconds

00:51:22 ◼   ► of audio.

00:51:23 ◼   ► And it's analyzing that buffer to see is anywhere in this buffer, did anybody

00:51:27 ◼   ► say hey dingus at any point?

00:51:29 ◼   ► And if it did, it says, Oh, I'm gonna wake up the whole rest

00:51:31 ◼   ► of the phone and say, Oh, they I they said the thing.

00:51:34 ◼   ► So, and by the way, here's like, you know, the beginning of the audio

00:51:37 ◼   ► that they said after that and then piece it all together and blah blah

00:51:39 ◼   ► blah.

00:51:40 ◼   ► That feature has existed for a really long time.

00:51:42 ◼   ► Most people have not uh worried about it because they don't they're just like,

00:51:46 ◼   ► oh like a human, you just say hey whatever.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Like I mean people do this all the time where

00:51:51 ◼   ► Um

00:51:52 ◼   ► someone, you know, says something and then says your name at the end of

00:51:55 ◼   ► it.

00:51:55 ◼   ► That you have this phenomenon where they shout something and they say your name

00:52:00 ◼   ► at the end to realize that they were addressing you, and suddenly you hear

00:52:03 ◼   ► all the stuff they said before that, whereas if they didn't say your name

00:52:06 ◼   ► at the end of it, you would have ignored it as background noise, right?

00:52:08 ◼   ► Yep.

00:52:09 ◼   ► And so they think, oh, the phone's just like a little person.

00:52:11 ◼   ► When I say hey dingus, it wakes up and it's like, well, how?

00:52:14 ◼   ► How does it wake up?

00:52:15 ◼   ► How does it know you say that said that?

00:52:16 ◼   ► How does it know you're drinking you?

00:52:17 ◼   ► It doesn't know your intention.

00:52:18 ◼   ► It's not reading your mind.

00:52:19 ◼   ► It is always recording a tiny bit of audio.

00:52:23 ◼   ► But what it does with that audio is it's looking for the the wake

00:52:27 ◼   ► word.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Okay.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Enter the watch which is always recording audio, but it's not just looking for

00:52:34 ◼   ► heydengus anymore.

00:52:35 ◼   ► First of all, the buffer seems bigger.

00:52:37 ◼   ► I don't know how long the how big the hay Siri buffer is or

00:52:40 ◼   ► whatever, but this buffer we know is at least 15 seconds.

00:52:44 ◼   ► Second, it's not just constantly scanning that buffer looking for a wake word.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Instead, it's got that buffer all ready to go.

00:52:52 ◼   ► And you know, it's a rolling buffer, so it's throwing away the the the

00:52:55 ◼   ► data that's you know it's keeping a 15 second window.

00:52:58 ◼   ► It's just letting it kind of sit there.

00:53:00 ◼   ► I mean it's probably also scanning it for the wake word, but it's making

00:53:03 ◼   ► it sit there, waiting for you to double tap the crown on your watch.

00:53:06 ◼   ► And then it goes, Oh, they want to know what was said in the

00:53:09 ◼   ► last 15 seconds.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Well, luckily I've been recording audio all day and I have the last 15

00:53:14 ◼   ► seconds of audio as a matter of fact in this buffer right here.

00:53:16 ◼   ► Now that they've tapped that, instead of me just scanning that buffer for the

00:53:19 ◼   ► wake word, I'm going to run it through a speech to text thing.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I'm going to get some text out of it.

00:53:25 ◼   ► I'm gonna summarize it and I'm gonna put it up on the screen in

00:53:27 ◼   ► a bubble.

00:53:28 ◼   ► That's what this feature does.

00:53:30 ◼   ► And well hold on.

00:53:31 ◼   ► That's there's a final distinction here.

00:53:33 ◼   ► This feature does not summarize it.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:53:36 ◼   ► The transfer the fifteen second yeah, the fifteen second one just transcribes exactly what

00:53:41 ◼   ► was said.

00:53:41 ◼   ► Does not do any summarization.

00:53:43 ◼   ► I think it does s doesn't it do some sort of like um anonymization

00:53:46 ◼   ► or something in it?

00:53:46 ◼   ► I f I think it might do some processing on it.

00:53:48 ◼   ► I don't think so there's is it I forget is that's replay, not rewind,

00:53:52 ◼   ► right?

00:53:53 ◼   ► Yeah no, I know you're talking about there's there's the distinction between the one

00:53:55 ◼   ► that summarizes versus transcribes.

00:53:56 ◼   ► And fifteen seconds is the transcript, but I thought they had also said that

00:53:59 ◼   ► in the fifteen seconds transcript they'll try to like blank out people's names or

00:54:01 ◼   ► something.

00:54:02 ◼   ► But either way, uh what it's doing with the audio is not just scanning

00:54:06 ◼   ► it to find something and say, H have I been triggered?

00:54:07 ◼   ► Yes, no, and then feeding the audio to the the system to like do

00:54:11 ◼   ► a command or whatever, but they're making text out of it.

00:54:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:14 ◼   ► Whether it is literal transcription or a summary, either way, it I don't think

00:54:17 ◼   ► it actually makes that much of a difference, other than like trying to make

00:54:20 ◼   ► it digestible, because 15 seconds you can transcribe and that's it's a lot of

00:54:23 ◼   ► text, but it's not too much.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Whereas if you've been an hour long meeting, the transcript of that is going

00:54:28 ◼   ► to be much longer than the summary.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Um but yeah, so that that distinction, I think it's mostly because people think

00:54:35 ◼   ► of a wake word as being just again, they they think of the phones,

00:54:39 ◼   ► you know, they conceptualize the phones the way the way we conceptualize living things

00:54:43 ◼   ► as in there, it's just responding to its name.

00:54:45 ◼   ► It's not recording me.

00:54:47 ◼   ► It's not listening to me.

00:54:48 ◼   ► But of course it is listening.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Like in the same way that you're not listening until someone yells your name.

00:54:52 ◼   ► When you hear your name, your brain wakes up and says, Oh, I was

00:54:55 ◼   ► just I was just, you know, blocking out all that background noise of people

00:54:58 ◼   ► chattering behind me.

00:54:58 ◼   ► But when I hear my name, I'm like, oh, I suddenly pay attention.

00:55:01 ◼   ► That's all the phone is doing, right?

00:55:02 ◼   ► So that's fine.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Versus, oh, you didn't listen to you, but now when you see that that

00:55:06 ◼   ► I transcribed the last 15 seconds of speech, you're like, wow, you've really been

00:55:10 ◼   ► listening this whole time because here I see the things that were just said

00:55:14 ◼   ► in the last fifteen seconds, including what the people at the next table were

00:55:17 ◼   ► saying and they didn't even realize they were being recorded.

00:55:19 ◼   ► So anyway, I don't wanna belabor this, but that's I wanted to bring up

00:55:22 ◼   ► uh Hey Siri at this point because technologic Oh, sorry, both of my phones

00:55:26 ◼   ► lit up Technologically speaking.

00:55:29 ◼   ► You brought this on yourself.

00:55:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I've I've my other phone's going to the Pokemon mines.

00:55:33 ◼   ► It's a new as in actually I found a new uh not used orange

00:55:37 ◼   ► apple silicone case.

00:55:39 ◼   ► It's just what my wife wanted to put my phone in to embarrass it

00:55:42 ◼   ► while it goes to the Pokemon line.

00:55:44 ◼   ► So they both lit up.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Um yeah, we should continue with the feedback because there is more.

00:55:49 ◼   ► All right.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So Carlo writes, My basic position is simple.

00:55:52 ◼   ► If I legitimately hear something, I don't think another person has a privacy right

00:55:55 ◼   ► over how well I'm allowed to remember it.

00:55:57 ◼   ► If you tell me something, I might remember it perfectly.

00:55:59 ◼   ► I might write it down afterward.

00:56:00 ◼   ► I might dictate myself a note.

00:56:02 ◼   ► None of those things are normally considered privacy violations.

00:56:05 ◼   ► So if my watch privately creates a summary to help me remember the same

00:56:08 ◼   ► conversation, what exactly changed?

00:56:10 ◼   ► The information reached the same person, it wasn't anyone else.

00:56:14 ◼   ► Technology just made that person's memory more reliable.

00:56:16 ◼   ► It this feels much closer to augmented memory than surveillance.

00:56:19 ◼   ► I get this a lot, but I don't know, it just feels really different.

00:56:24 ◼   ► There's a difference between surveillance and eavesdropping.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Eavesdropping, uh some uh etymologists will let us know where that comes from or

00:56:32 ◼   ► whatever, but eavesdropping is like you're around the corner from someone having a conversation

00:56:36 ◼   ► and you're listening that's generally frowned upon too.

00:56:38 ◼   ► Like it's kind of, you know, like you're sneaky, you're listening in a conversation

00:56:41 ◼   ► that you shouldn't be listening, and sometimes you're not around the corner.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Maybe you're just like at a restaurant in a booth and you can hear

00:56:46 ◼   ► the people in the booth next to you and you're listening to their conversation.

00:56:48 ◼   ► That's also kind of frowned upon, socially speaking.

00:56:51 ◼   ► But you're that you can do it.

00:56:53 ◼   ► But surveillance is different from that in that you don't have to be there

00:56:58 ◼   ► or do anything or participate.

00:57:00 ◼   ► You can continue exactly ignoring them having your conversation, confident in the fact that

00:57:05 ◼   ► your watch is recording everything and will summarize everything the next booth said without

00:57:10 ◼   ► you having to concentrate on it or appear to be eavesdropping or anything like

00:57:14 ◼   ► that.

00:57:14 ◼   ► And that is a violation of the social contract much more so than eavesdrop.

00:57:17 ◼   ► Eavesdropping is rude is like you shouldn't be listening to our conversation, but at

00:57:20 ◼   ► least people can see that you're because you're not if you if you're having

00:57:23 ◼   ► your own conversation or whatever, they're like, Oh, they're if someone would see you

00:57:26 ◼   ► and say they're clearly being polite and not listening to the conversation on the

00:57:29 ◼   ► next table, but no, you're not being polite.

00:57:31 ◼   ► You put a tape recorder down the table and you're recording it, and later

00:57:33 ◼   ► you're gonna know it's not the same thing as summarized or whatever, but that's

00:57:37 ◼   ► the point.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Surveillance is a machine doing a thing that would be too socially unacceptable for

00:57:42 ◼   ► you to do, but you just set the machine to do it.

00:57:44 ◼   ► And so you can appear not to be violating that social norm when you

00:57:47 ◼   ► totally are, which is why it is usually considered more invasive to, for example,

00:57:52 ◼   ► plant cameras in your neighbor's house than it is for you to look out

00:57:56 ◼   ► your window in through their window.

00:57:58 ◼   ► Both of them are bad.

00:57:58 ◼   ► You shouldn't be peeping in their windows.

00:58:00 ◼   ► But if you went into their house and planted cameras and tape recorders, that

00:58:03 ◼   ► would be more of a violation of you looking out your window at their

00:58:06 ◼   ► house.

00:58:06 ◼   ► Aaron Powell There's also there there's a lot of differences in in degree and

00:58:11 ◼   ► situation here.

00:58:12 ◼   ► Like if first of all, if you know if for a product like this,

00:58:16 ◼   ► it is creating an artifact that you can refer to and that might have

00:58:20 ◼   ► some kind of authority.

00:58:21 ◼   ► So for instance, if if there's some dispute over what was said, you know,

00:58:28 ◼   ► you can you can point to this.

00:58:29 ◼   ► You can go put open up your app, you know, your Siri app or

00:58:31 ◼   ► wherever these these recordings land, and you can say, no, no, no, look, this

00:58:34 ◼   ► is what you said.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And that that's a different type that's a different a different nature uh than

00:58:41 ◼   ► you know, you just just trying to argue that you they remember something.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Although I feel like you could be that pretty easily in court given how

00:58:46 ◼   ► poorly these things summarize.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Well, sure.

00:58:49 ◼   ► But that's a good thing.

00:58:49 ◼   ► But also but but again, you are you're creating an artifact that maybe somebody

00:58:53 ◼   ► else could have access to.

00:58:54 ◼   ► Like you know, when we first discussed this, I I brought up the example

00:58:56 ◼   ► of like, you know, a lot of spouses or partners have access to each

00:59:01 ◼   ► other's Apple IDs or know each other's passcodes to their devices.

00:59:05 ◼   ► And so you could plausibly like if you if you're if you had like

00:59:09 ◼   ► a partner or an ex maybe who knew your passcode to your phone and

00:59:14 ◼   ► could open it up and read these notes, it is plausible that they could

00:59:18 ◼   ► maybe see an action item or a summary of a conversation that could give

00:59:22 ◼   ► away something that you would rather they not know.

00:59:24 ◼   ► So for instance, what if you are planning to move out?

00:59:28 ◼   ► And they see in your Siri app when they're spying on you that you

00:59:32 ◼   ► met with a like an apartment listing agent.

00:59:35 ◼   ► That they and they it's even if it says something like met with Michelle,

00:59:37 ◼   ► what if they know that your friend Michelle is an apartment listing agent?

00:59:40 ◼   ► And like there's there's uh so many ways this c this can be a

00:59:45 ◼   ► privacy violation unintentionally, um, or or in this case, you know, intentionally, but like

00:59:50 ◼   ► when you when you're creating these records of everything around you, it does change

00:59:54 ◼   ► things dramatically because you know also in that situation, you as the wearer of

01:00:00 ◼   ► this recording device, you m again, you like what we were saying earlier, you

01:00:04 ◼   ► might forget that this is a feature.

01:00:05 ◼   ► You might not even know this is or you might have turned it on

01:00:07 ◼   ► once month ago, forgotten about it, and tr it's been it'd been recording your

01:00:10 ◼   ► conversations for months, and or rather it's been taking notes on your conversations for

01:00:14 ◼   ► months.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Um so even though it is not creating an audio recording that persists, it

01:00:21 ◼   ► is still creating artifacts automatically all the time that could have major privacy implications

01:00:27 ◼   ► and could backfire on you and the people around you in ways that you

01:00:31 ◼   ► would rather they not.

01:00:32 ◼   ► Again, think about law enforcement.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Like so you know, suppose that this becomes one of those things that the

01:00:37 ◼   ► T S TSA agents make you check when you enter the country, or the

01:00:40 ◼   ► you know the customs agents.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Like w they want to see what you've been talking about with your friends.

01:00:44 ◼   ► Have you been saying anything maybe against the president?

01:00:47 ◼   ► This sounds ridiculous to only some people out there now, because most of us

01:00:51 ◼   ► you could you hear an example like that and you're like, oh yeah, that

01:00:54 ◼   ► could happen.

01:00:54 ◼   ► That probably will happen.

01:00:56 ◼   ► These kinds of scenarios are not ridiculous.

01:00:58 ◼   ► So meanwhile,

01:01:00 ◼   ► why are they creating this?

01:01:03 ◼   ► It it does seem like if what you want is something to take notes

01:01:07 ◼   ► on your meetings, there's lots of other solutions for that that will do a

01:01:12 ◼   ► better job and will be like, you know, they'll be more thorough.

01:01:16 ◼   ► They'll actually have things like searchable transcripts and or recordings in in a i

01:01:20 ◼   ► in those kind of contexts that makes a lot more sense.

01:01:22 ◼   ► It is more defensible and they'll probably do a better job.

01:01:25 ◼   ► So Apple's gonna be here with this kind of very limited, possibly very mediocre

01:01:30 ◼   ► version and bring on all this all this you know baggage for what?

01:01:34 ◼   ► And then finally I would also say that if you consider it a memory

01:01:39 ◼   ► augmentation, that is an interesting approach.

01:01:42 ◼   ► That is an interesting theory that you're saying, I'm not recording conversations, I'm just

01:01:47 ◼   ► automatically taking durable, you know, automated notes on everything around me all the time.

01:01:53 ◼   ► Okay.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Isn't that a similar argument to LLMs are just reading things like humans read

01:02:01 ◼   ► them and just learning them and then just it can repeat them back perfectly?

01:02:05 ◼   ► But that's not a copyright violation.

01:02:06 ◼   ► It read it just like I just like you or I would read it.

01:02:09 ◼   ► And if I can read a news article and recite it perfectly back to

01:02:12 ◼   ► you, I'm that's not a copyright violation.

01:02:15 ◼   ► Well, it might be a public performance, but you know, like th there's you

01:02:19 ◼   ► can see like when you change the degree or the the nature of something

01:02:24 ◼   ► by this much, it does change a lot of the legal questions around it.

01:02:29 ◼   ► And there's a lot of precedent for that throughout all of technology and history.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Like When you change something this dramatically, the law and the perception and the

01:02:37 ◼   ► judgments around it often change.

01:02:40 ◼   ► In this case, something that takes constant, persistent, automatic notes of everything is a

01:02:46 ◼   ► difference in degree versus me having the right to remember what you said to

01:02:50 ◼   ► me.

01:02:51 ◼   ► A couple of things on what you said.

01:02:52 ◼   ► First, I I hate that LLM analogy because LMs aren't people, but I'm setting

01:02:55 ◼   ► that aside.

01:02:56 ◼   ► Um the I think what uh another thing I want to push back against,

01:03:00 ◼   ► although you keep bringing it up as an example to help people understand it,

01:03:02 ◼   ► which makes sense from an emotional perspective, but technically speaking, and I feel like

01:03:06 ◼   ► from like the principle of all this, it doesn't matter if anything that has

01:03:11 ◼   ► been recorded is sensitive in any way.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Like this is not bad because you might say a thing that you don't

01:03:17 ◼   ► want people to know, it's bad even if you never say anything.

01:03:19 ◼   ► It's the whole like, well if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't have

01:03:22 ◼   ► to worry about it.

01:03:22 ◼   ► No, surveillance is surveillance.

01:03:24 ◼   ► Even if you never say anything, if nothing is ever recorded that is harmful

01:03:29 ◼   ► in any way, Okay, it's still just as bad.

01:03:32 ◼   ► It doesn't badness of it based on whether you had said something that is

01:03:35 ◼   ► potentially sensitive.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Because that that way leads you to okay, well, it's fine as long as

01:03:39 ◼   ► you have nothing to hide we'll just record everything.

01:03:41 ◼   ► And if you object to the recording, then obviously you have something to hide

01:03:44 ◼   ► and it and you're And your argument is like, well, everybody has something to

01:03:46 ◼   ► hide, but really it doesn't matter if I have anything to hide.

01:03:49 ◼   ► The principle is I should not constantly be recorded.

01:03:52 ◼   ► And I think this is getting to the heart of the difference, which is

01:03:54 ◼   ► what is surveillance versus taking notes or you know, memorizing or eavesdropping or whatever.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Surveillance is constant, ambient, and back referenceable as in it's just running all the

01:04:07 ◼   ► time.

01:04:07 ◼   ► You just have the camera pointed at your garage and it's just there all

01:04:09 ◼   ► the time.

01:04:10 ◼   ► It's just recording 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Maybe once in a blue moon, someone will come and try into your garage,

01:04:16 ◼   ► but it's recording all the time.

01:04:18 ◼   ► That is surveillance.

01:04:19 ◼   ► You don't do anything to make it.

01:04:20 ◼   ► It's not an intentional move where every morning you wake up and say, Well,

01:04:23 ◼   ► time to record the garage in case someone skills.

01:04:25 ◼   ► It's just running all the time.

01:04:26 ◼   ► That's what surveillance is.

01:04:28 ◼   ► It's the difference between sitting down at a meeting at work and starting your

01:04:32 ◼   ► note-taking thing.

01:04:33 ◼   ► And then you have the meeting and then it summarizes your notes as one

01:04:35 ◼   ► of our sponsors does, uh, you know, I think for this episode, and then

01:04:39 ◼   ► you're done.

01:04:40 ◼   ► That is an intentional act in a particular context where I think everyone is

01:04:43 ◼   ► socially acceptable to take notes during meetings, whether you're taking them with a pad

01:04:46 ◼   ► and a pencil on your computer or with a note taking app.

01:04:49 ◼   ► It is an intentional act that everyone is aware of that's going on in

01:04:52 ◼   ► a particular context versus my watch is recording everything all the time.

01:04:57 ◼   ► Oh, I can geofence it.

01:04:58 ◼   ► But like just because it is ambient, because it is surveillance, once it is

01:05:03 ◼   ► off and running, is just filling up your Siri app with like summaries of

01:05:06 ◼   ► things that have happened all around you all day because surveillance is not an

01:05:10 ◼   ► intentional time-limited act where you say record now stop recording.

01:05:13 ◼   ► It is just I've set a camera up pointing at my garage and that's

01:05:16 ◼   ► going to be there forever.

01:05:17 ◼   ► And I might only look at it when someone breaks into my garage, but

01:05:20 ◼   ► it's recording all the time.

01:05:22 ◼   ► And surveillance, you know, video surveillance or audio surveillance, there are laws around that

01:05:26 ◼   ► because of the nature of surveillance.

01:05:29 ◼   ► It is not as simple as, you know, an intentional recording act, although we

01:05:32 ◼   ► have laws about that as well.

01:05:33 ◼   ► It is like it is it is d different in kind.

01:05:37 ◼   ► And again, it doesn't matter if anything ever happens that is important in that

01:05:41 ◼   ► video.

01:05:41 ◼   ► The act of surveillance is still the act of surveillance, even if nothing ever

01:05:44 ◼   ► happens the thing you pointed the camera at.

01:05:46 ◼   ► At certain scenarios you can't point your camera.

01:05:48 ◼   ► You can't again you can't plant cameras in your neighbor's and say, Well, it's

01:05:51 ◼   ► not a problem unless something sensitive happens in their house.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Like, no, it's problem that the camera is there at all recording all the

01:05:56 ◼   ► time.

01:05:57 ◼   ► Uh again, without their without their knowledge or whatever.

01:05:59 ◼   ► So Carlos's point is like, well they don't know that I'm and I'm memorizing

01:06:02 ◼   ► everything they say and now I'm recording everything they say.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And it's like yeah, you've just crept right up to probably existing laws on

01:06:07 ◼   ► on eavesdropping and surveillance.

01:06:09 ◼   ► And this is turning a thing that was previously a thing on your wrist

01:06:11 ◼   ► that would tell you time and do stuff into, hey, you may not know

01:06:14 ◼   ► it but we're recording and summarizing every conversation that happens around you.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Nick here writes, Apple swears up and down.

01:06:21 ◼   ► It's doing all it can to make this private and secure.

01:06:24 ◼   ► And I have no reason to believe otherwise.

01:06:26 ◼   ► The audio is not actually saved and is instead merely transcribed.

01:06:30 ◼   ► That text is automatically deleted unless the user takes an action to save it

01:06:33 ◼   ► too.

01:06:34 ◼   ► But good luck explaining that to anyone around you after you read back an

01:06:38 ◼   ► exact transcript of what they just said.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I think normal people will continue to react negatively when you tell them that

01:06:43 ◼   ► you've been passively recording them because outside Silicon Valley, that is considered gross and

01:06:47 ◼   ► invasive.

01:06:48 ◼   ► Let me just uh plus one the very last thing there that Nick said.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I have not spent enormous inordinate amounts of time in Silicon Valley, but I've

01:06:57 ◼   ► spent more time than most East Coasters, I like to think.

01:07:01 ◼   ► And I don't think

01:07:05 ◼   ► reality as the rest of the country, I'm saying the East Coast.

01:07:08 ◼   ► I don't think the reality is the rest of the country and perhaps the

01:07:11 ◼   ► world sees it really exists in Silicon Valley.

01:07:16 ◼   ► It's it's very different there.

01:07:19 ◼   ► In some ways that's good.

01:07:21 ◼   ► In a lot of ways I don't think it's Great.

01:07:24 ◼   ► And I think Nick hit the nail on the head that this is considered

01:07:27 ◼   ► absolutely gross and invasive everywhere except maybe in the valley.

01:07:31 ◼   ► And it is again it is confusing to emphasize again.

01:07:33 ◼   ► There's the 15-second transcript and then there's the thing with it summarizes conversations that

01:07:37 ◼   ► have happened.

01:07:38 ◼   ► And the 15 second transcript is a small time window, throws it away if

01:07:42 ◼   ► you don't keep it, blah, blah, you have to double tap the crown, blah

01:07:44 ◼   ► blah blah business.

01:07:45 ◼   ► But the recap thing is like is just constantly listening to everything and it's

01:07:49 ◼   ► not transcribing everything, but it is summarizing the conversations.

01:07:51 ◼   ► It is just a condensed, compressed version of constant surveillance.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And that's the most dangerous one because you're just living your life, going through

01:07:58 ◼   ► your day, and somewhere on your phone it is filling it up with paragraph

01:08:02 ◼   ► long summaries of conversations that you had.

01:08:04 ◼   ► And that is just a different form of surveillance.

01:08:06 ◼   ► It's old school kind.

01:08:07 ◼   ► Like if you've been watching um Star City on Apple TV, there's it's like

01:08:11 ◼   ► a seventies era Soviet, you know, type of thing.

01:08:14 ◼   ► And they have they have they have actual audio listening devices spying on people,

01:08:18 ◼   ► right?

01:08:19 ◼   ► But it's just too much content.

01:08:20 ◼   ► So they have a room full of people who listen to the audio tapes

01:08:23 ◼   ► and then summarize them.

01:08:24 ◼   ► They're basically doing what the recap feature does and they because it's too long

01:08:27 ◼   ► to listen.

01:08:27 ◼   ► You know they didn't they didn't they're not transcribing them word for word, right?

01:08:30 ◼   ► They're just being like, okay, they listen 15 minutes and they say, This person

01:08:34 ◼   ► talked with that person and they argued about shopping, right?

01:08:37 ◼   ► It's just a summary, but it's still you watch the show and you're supposed

01:08:41 ◼   ► to believe this is oppressive surveillance.

01:08:42 ◼   ► He's like, Oh no, no, it's not surveillance The tapes, they throw away the

01:08:45 ◼   ► audio tapes.

01:08:46 ◼   ► They just have these people summarizing it.

01:08:48 ◼   ► So you just get a summary.

01:08:49 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, that's still surveillance.

01:08:52 ◼   ► And also like everyone thinks their phone is listening to them.

01:08:57 ◼   ► That's true.

01:08:57 ◼   ► Every I mean it is.

01:08:59 ◼   ► It's listening for it's listening for hey dingus.

01:09:01 ◼   ► Right, but like you y you've had you as the nerd in in your

01:09:04 ◼   ► life, you've had everybody c you know tell you, you know, your phone's listening

01:09:07 ◼   ► to you 'cause this one time you can run ads, yeah.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Yeah 'cause I 'cause I this one time I mentioned this water filter and

01:09:12 ◼   ► then the next day I was seeing ads for water filters all over my

01:09:14 ◼   ► phone.

01:09:14 ◼   ► They was listening to what I didn't I didn't type in anything, it heard

01:09:17 ◼   ► me.

01:09:17 ◼   ► Everyone has stories like that.

01:09:19 ◼   ► And you know, even and it's already been hard enough as the nerd to

01:09:22 ◼   ► try to explain like, well, actually that's not you know, they don't need to

01:09:25 ◼   ► be listening to you for that.

01:09:26 ◼   ► You know this is like now this this now it's just out the window.

01:09:30 ◼   ► It's no yeah your phone's listening to you.

01:09:31 ◼   ► It is.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Well so here's the thing about that.

01:09:33 ◼   ► The reason people would freak out about that is because they like if you

01:09:37 ◼   ► explain how it's actually working like, you know, based on their IP address and

01:09:41 ◼   ► other things and all sorts of stu like they're like, Oh, well that's boring

01:09:43 ◼   ► and I'm not interested in.

01:09:44 ◼   ► But as soon as you say, But no, but imagine it didn't work that

01:09:47 ◼   ► way, which is actually probably the better way, but imagine instead it was literally

01:09:50 ◼   ► listening to you.

01:09:51 ◼   ► That bothers them so much more because it is more

01:09:56 ◼   ► connected to the human experience of eavesdropping, right?

01:09:58 ◼   ► That is more a violation of the human social norm of don't, hey, don't

01:10:02 ◼   ► other people's conversations that it's the phone being rude.

01:10:05 ◼   ► Whereas when it does it the computer way with IP addresses and cookies and

01:10:09 ◼   ► stuff like that, they're like, oh, that's

01:10:12 ◼   ► whatever.

01:10:12 ◼   ► It doesn't like they there's no social norm uh around like professional persistent tracking

01:10:18 ◼   ► cookies and stuff.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Like the actual tech, the actual ad tech that does this thing that gives

01:10:22 ◼   ► you the ads that are based on the stuff you've been doing online.

01:10:25 ◼   ► That ad tech doesn't bother people because it doesn't have an analog in human

01:10:29 ◼   ► society.

01:10:30 ◼   ► But listening on conversations that you shouldn't be listening to does.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And that's why they latch on to the idea that it's listening.

01:10:36 ◼   ► And now that it literally is listening, of course it's gonna bother them.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Just like it's it's a t uh fact of human nature that just like

01:10:45 ◼   ► things that are outside our lived experience seem alien and not as interesting to

01:10:49 ◼   ► us.

01:10:49 ◼   ► But now that the phones are doing things that are analogous to our own

01:10:53 ◼   ► sense experience of living in the world, it makes people angry, which is exactly

01:10:57 ◼   ► why they were angry when they thought phones were doing this.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And then when you explain what they're doing, they're like, oh, that doesn't.

01:11:02 ◼   ► But if it's listening, that does bother me.

01:11:03 ◼   ► Well now it's listening.

01:11:05 ◼   ► And like and I think what this also what we've seen is like people

01:11:08 ◼   ► don't

01:11:09 ◼   ► like you know, as Nick here was saying, like good luck explaining these minor

01:11:13 ◼   ► differences or these minor technical things to anybody.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Like do you think anyone is going to sit through an explanation about well

01:11:21 ◼   ► it's not actually storing But it's only fifteen seconds or whatever.

01:11:24 ◼   ► You read back what they just said, they're like they hate you now.

01:11:26 ◼   ► It's only transcribing.

01:11:28 ◼   ► It's like it's taking notes for you and it's super secure and it's it

01:11:32 ◼   ► streams the audio from this part of the chip to this part of the

01:11:34 ◼   ► phone chip and no one cares.

01:11:37 ◼   ► Everyone will just say, oh yeah, so it's recording everything we're saying.

01:11:40 ◼   ► Okay, great.

01:11:40 ◼   ► None of those technical distinctions matter to any regular people.

01:11:44 ◼   ► It's just, okay, yeah, now every Apple watches a recording device.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Anonymous writes, I'm a lawyer and I live in Washington.

01:11:50 ◼   ► State.

01:11:51 ◼   ► Although I'm not a privacy expert, I do think it's interesting to consider the

01:11:54 ◼   ► implications of this kind of recording under various state laws.

01:11:57 ◼   ► In Washington, for example, we have a statute that expressly makes it against the

01:12:01 ◼   ► law to record any, quote, private conversation by any device electronic or otherwise designed

01:12:07 ◼   ► to record or transmit such conversation, regardless how the device is powered or actuated

01:12:12 ◼   ► without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.

01:12:17 ◼   ► On its face then, I can't see how anyone wearing an Apple Watch constantly

01:12:20 ◼   ► recording others without them knowing wouldn't be violating Washington law.

01:12:23 ◼   ► Well it depends on the definition of record.

01:12:26 ◼   ► It depend like it depends on the definition of conversation.

01:12:30 ◼   ► Like that's how that's how laws like this are tested.

01:12:32 ◼   ► It's you you evaluate all the words, like, well, is this a recording?

01:12:36 ◼   ► What is it what is a recording of a conversation?

01:12:39 ◼   ► Does it does a you know a a loosely transcribed like series of notes

01:12:44 ◼   ► about facts in it does that count as a recording?

01:12:47 ◼   ► If if you talk to me and I take notes on the conversation, is

01:12:52 ◼   ► that a recording?

01:12:54 ◼   ► Apple, I'm sure their lawyers reviewed all this and I'm sure their lawyers determined

01:12:57 ◼   ► no it's not.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Um we are not lawyers, so we are not really qualified to make that

01:13:01 ◼   ► kind of determination.

01:13:02 ◼   ► But even if it is technically skating by the law, it almost doesn't matter

01:13:09 ◼   ► because again, it's it's gonna it's a it's a PR problem.

01:13:12 ◼   ► It it's a it's a perception problem.

01:13:14 ◼   ► That is going to do far more damage to Apple than you know, i

01:13:19 ◼   ► if if some state sues them for violating some edge of a law that

01:13:22 ◼   ► they can talk their way out of.

01:13:23 ◼   ► The fifteen second one would be pretty easy to you know, win on in

01:13:27 ◼   ► court because that is straight up, you know, transcription of what was said.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Maybe with a little misogynist, but it's not is a transcription, a recording.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Is I don't know.

01:13:36 ◼   ► It yeah, yeah.

01:13:37 ◼   ► I I think they would say it is like they say electronic device.

01:13:40 ◼   ► If electronic device that uh that recorded audio and immediately turned it into speech,

01:13:44 ◼   ► uh I think that would pretty be pretty easy to win.

01:13:46 ◼   ► But anyway, someone will try it, I guess.

01:13:47 ◼   ► Uh the summaries are maybe a little bit harder, but uh that's just like

01:13:51 ◼   ► there are I'm sure there's existing laws in the book with pot with particular

01:13:54 ◼   ► wording, but uh if people rebel against this and if especially with state laws

01:13:58 ◼   ► where there's actually a chance of passing laws on like the federal uh level,

01:14:01 ◼   ► you could just add laws that say, Yeah, whatever the Apple Watch is doing,

01:14:04 ◼   ► that's now against the law.

01:14:06 ◼   ► Another anonymous, a different anonymous, writes, On the topic of audio intelligence, it seems

01:14:10 ◼   ► Apple is following a very similar strategy at the genius bar.

01:14:13 ◼   ► If you have a genius bar appointment, you're asked to agree that they are

01:14:16 ◼   ► not responsible for data loss, followed by an additional agreement page that asks about

01:14:19 ◼   ► audio collection for note-taking during the appointment.

01:14:22 ◼   ► This happens right at the beginning of every appointment.

01:14:24 ◼   ► The audio consent agreement covers the fact that audio is transcribed on the iPad

01:14:27 ◼   ► they use, and that transcript is sent to the cloud for processing.

01:14:31 ◼   ► This is an example of a social norm that I think we've pretty well

01:14:33 ◼   ► established.

01:14:34 ◼   ► For decades, I guess, you call a customer support number and they say this

01:14:38 ◼   ► call is be recording for training quality purposes and blah blah blah.

01:14:41 ◼   ► That's an example of a confined scenario like a meeting at work where everyone

01:14:45 ◼   ► agrees, all right, fine.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Like I understand why it's being recorded.

01:14:48 ◼   ► In fact, it might actually benefit me here.

01:14:50 ◼   ► It's similar to if you're having a meeting, you might want it to be

01:14:52 ◼   ► recorded.

01:14:53 ◼   ► So both sides, you know, you can't argue about what took place or like

01:14:56 ◼   ► literal audio recording, there are limited contexts where you say, fine, if you don't

01:15:00 ◼   ► agree, hang up with the phone.

01:15:01 ◼   ► But if you do agree, we're both here.

01:15:02 ◼   ► This is being recorded, and both parties have an interest in it being recorded

01:15:07 ◼   ► because you don't want like the customer service person lying about what you said

01:15:09 ◼   ► and you want to be able to prove what they said.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Obviously they have the recording and you don't.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And so it's quite fair.

01:15:14 ◼   ► But in some states you can record your end too and blah blah blah.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Um but yeah like essentially AI note-taking technologies uses the genius bar.

01:15:22 ◼   ► That's a great idea because People there's a lot of conversation happening in the

01:15:25 ◼   ► genius bar and it's hard to keep track of what everyone is saying and

01:15:27 ◼   ► people are trying to take notes in real time, but also pay attention to

01:15:30 ◼   ► the customer.

01:15:31 ◼   ► If the customer and the genius bar person agree that we're okay with this,

01:15:35 ◼   ► I think again it benefits both of them to have additional data about their

01:15:41 ◼   ► interaction so that they get the best service possible.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Um that's so different than um by the way, on your walk from the

01:15:48 ◼   ► parking lot, we were recording you and we heard your conversation and we already

01:15:51 ◼   ► know what you are.

01:15:52 ◼   ► We already know what you're coming here to talk to us about.

01:15:54 ◼   ► And it's like I'm not okay with that.

01:15:56 ◼   ► That is surveillance.

01:15:58 ◼   ► Finally, uh, you I believe John noted that MKBHD has a segment in his

01:16:03 ◼   ► watch review that discusses exactly this.

01:16:05 ◼   ► All right.

01:16:05 ◼   ► So here the one of the things that when we first discuss this, I'm

01:16:08 ◼   ► like, well, uh, this from a technical perspective and a principled ethical perspective is

01:16:13 ◼   ► very, very bad.

01:16:14 ◼   ► But it's the type of thing where depending on what the defaults are, again,

01:16:20 ◼   ► this hasn't shipped yet, so we don't know how this will be configured out

01:16:22 ◼   ► of the box if it ever ships.

01:16:23 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:16:24 ◼   ► Um but like depending on how this is deployed, maybe this stuff is off

01:16:28 ◼   ► by default, right?

01:16:29 ◼   ► Um and it's the type of thing where if if it doesn't occur to

01:16:33 ◼   ► you, I would love to just record a get summaries of every conversation that

01:16:36 ◼   ► happens to me all day and you seek out this feature and turn it

01:16:38 ◼   ► on, and if it's off by default, it's so obscure that like I don't

01:16:41 ◼   ► think it's a need that people will be seeking out.

01:16:44 ◼   ► And basically what it would mean is the you know, the tyranny of the

01:16:46 ◼   ► defaults, most people will have no interaction with this feature and it won't even

01:16:50 ◼   ► rise to the level that people know about it and won't become a PR

01:16:53 ◼   ► problem.

01:16:54 ◼   ► But then MKBHD made a video about it.

01:16:56 ◼   ► It's like, well, that ship has sailed.

01:16:58 ◼   ► Uh because Cause now millions and millions and millions of casual tech enthusiasts know

01:17:02 ◼   ► about these features.

01:17:04 ◼   ► And his take on it was very similar to ours, which is this is

01:17:07 ◼   ► a bad idea, Apple.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Why are you doing this?

01:17:09 ◼   ► And so now any hope that Apple could s weather this storm with smart

01:17:14 ◼   ► defaults and obscurity, I feel like is out the window.

01:17:16 ◼   ► Not that like MKBHD is talking to the public, but he's talking to the

01:17:20 ◼   ► broadest possible swath of people who care about tech stuff, like literally millions of

01:17:24 ◼   ► people.

01:17:25 ◼   ► So, and I he's not the only one who has talked about this, but

01:17:28 ◼   ► yeah, Apple really I mean, it's great that this didn't point out because Apple

01:17:33 ◼   ► now has a chance to think better of it and do something different and

01:17:36 ◼   ► maybe say, oh, we're gonna delay this feature while we think about it, but

01:17:40 ◼   ► We'll see how this goes, but yeah, he MKBHD is on it.

01:17:44 ◼   ► I I just I can't imagine this providing enough utility to be worth all

01:17:51 ◼   ► of the reputational damage and downsides.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Because uh like we were saying earlier the products that do this, like like

01:17:56 ◼   ► our sponsor of this episode, like the products that do this like for business

01:17:59 ◼   ► meetings are much more thorough and much more specialized and and you know, intentionally

01:18:05 ◼   ► don't strip out a whole bunch of information 'cause that's not the point of

01:18:08 ◼   ► them.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Um Uh and they have a long history.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Like when I was in my jobby job, every meeting we had was recorded,

01:18:13 ◼   ► whether it was in WebEx or Zoom or Teams or all the different like

01:18:16 ◼   ► every meeting was recorded.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Full audio both ends of every meeting.

01:18:19 ◼   ► And it was beneficial to everybody.

01:18:21 ◼   ► We didn't have any AI note taking or whatever, but it was if you

01:18:23 ◼   ► couldn't if you missed the meeting, for example, you couldn't, you could go and

01:18:26 ◼   ► play back the recording of the meeting.

01:18:28 ◼   ► Incredibly beneficial.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Like no one was like, Oh, you're recording meetings.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Like that's just that's just the way things work in this office.

01:18:34 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:18:35 ◼   ► Not surveillance.

01:18:36 ◼   ► If I had to guess, honestly, I bet this feature never ships.

01:18:40 ◼   ► I bet it kind of gets, you know, delayed, re you know, very similar

01:18:43 ◼   ► to the CSAM scanning thing from a few years back.

01:18:45 ◼   ► Like I bet it kind of gets like, you know, delayed, rethought, and then

01:18:49 ◼   ► oh actually never mind.

01:18:51 ◼   ► Like you know, in some form.

01:18:53 ◼   ► Yeah, and like the thing is this a lot of the same tech has

01:18:56 ◼   ► been used in Apple devices and could be used in the future in Apple

01:18:59 ◼   ► devices as an assistive technology for people who can't hear what's being said and

01:19:04 ◼   ► basically getting closed captions on people.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Like it's a m potential thing of glasses.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Like if you can't hear what people are saying, if you just looked at

01:19:09 ◼   ► them and can see subtitles of how these as they speak, that's an incredibly

01:19:13 ◼   ► valuable assistive technology.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Most people would not consider that surveillance because it is just someone using an

01:19:19 ◼   ► assistive device to live through the world.

01:19:21 ◼   ► It's not recording those tr the the transcripts, it's just putting under their face

01:19:25 ◼   ► so you can understand what they're saying when they're talking to you without being

01:19:27 ◼   ► able to hear them.

01:19:28 ◼   ► Um and obviously they have actual hearing aids for people who just need the

01:19:31 ◼   ► sound boosted or whatever.

01:19:32 ◼   ► Like as an assistive technology, I think it does have value.

01:19:35 ◼   ► And that's why I feel like the the one that could reasonably survive with

01:19:39 ◼   ► some tweaks is the 15 second rewind thing.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Um I I'm not sure of the utility of that, but like that is

01:19:45 ◼   ► less ser that is much more like Hey Dingus, right?

01:19:48 ◼   ► It's like it's just a rolling buffer.

01:19:50 ◼   ► And if you never listen to the rolling buffer, it all just disappears.

01:19:53 ◼   ► Just like the rolling buffer that was listening to Hey Dingus, all that audio

01:19:56 ◼   ► is gone like tears in rain, right?

01:19:57 ◼   ► Lost, sorry.

01:19:58 ◼   ► Uh will be lost.

01:20:00 ◼   ► Anyway, um and so those 15 second buffers, if you never double tap the

01:20:03 ◼   ► crown, it never shows up.

01:20:04 ◼   ► But when you do double tap it, arguably you could say I'm using it

01:20:06 ◼   ► as an assistive technology, especially if you can't actually save that 15 seconds and

01:20:10 ◼   ► it's just on your watch briefly.

01:20:11 ◼   ► But the recap one, that's surveillance.

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01:22:22 ◼   ► All right, we have been very busy, and I apologize we haven't had more

01:22:25 ◼   ► time for Ask ATP, but this is the benefit of having two shows 48

01:22:29 ◼   ► hours apart, is that we can do some Ask ATP.

01:22:32 ◼   ► So Elliot writes: What is the highest mileage you have ever got to in

01:22:35 ◼   ► a single car?

01:22:36 ◼   ► What do you think is the highest mileage that you should go?

01:22:39 ◼   ► For me, uh, when I had a 1994 Saturn SL2, uh, I believe that

01:22:45 ◼   ► got to like 120,000 miles or thereabouts.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Before or after the wheels fell off.

01:22:50 ◼   ► Uh that one, first of all, excellent memory.

01:22:52 ◼   ► Uh second of all, it was one wheel, thank you very much.

01:22:55 ◼   ► And third of all, it was after.

01:22:57 ◼   ► Really, if any of the wheels fall off, that's bad by the way.

01:23:00 ◼   ► Even if it's just one, I don't feel like it's not that much of

01:23:01 ◼   ► a defense.

01:23:02 ◼   ► That was not great.

01:23:03 ◼   ► Uh so to be fair, that was uh dad's commuter car until it was

01:23:07 ◼   ► eventually handed down to me.

01:23:09 ◼   ► Um that car bombed up and down the Sawmill River Parkway at truly heinous

01:23:15 ◼   ► speeds at like four o'clock in the morning when dad would go to work.

01:23:17 ◼   ► Um it was astonishing.

01:23:19 ◼   ► He was like the Sabine Schmitz of the sawmill.

01:23:22 ◼   ► It was really some else.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Um and that reference probably made sense to six people, but that's okay.

01:23:26 ◼   ► Uh anyways, uh that car got to like 120,000 miles on one clutch, I

01:23:29 ◼   ► should add.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Um, and then the Nissan 3Z that we bought with something like 70 or

01:23:36 ◼   ► 80,000 miles on it from a coworker of my dad's.

01:23:40 ◼   ► And I think that had like 110-ish when we got rid of it, when

01:23:44 ◼   ► I got rid of it because at that point it was mine.

01:23:46 ◼   ► Um, but nothing since then has been anywhere close to that mileage.

01:23:50 ◼   ► Um I think the original BMW was like 70,000, 80,000 miles.

01:23:55 ◼   ► I could look it up but I'm not gonna do that while we're air.

01:23:57 ◼   ► Um, the Volkswagen head's 35-ish thousand.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Um, I'm starting life with this BMW at 23,000 or something like that.

01:24:05 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:24:06 ◼   ► But I have a feeling that Marco will probably be on par with me

01:24:10 ◼   ► and John will shame us both.

01:24:12 ◼   ► But let's see.

01:24:13 ◼   ► Marco, let's start with you, 'cause I think you're gonna be close.

01:24:16 ◼   ► What is your world record holder?

01:24:17 ◼   ► Well, your maxima probably had a bunch of miles, didn't it?

01:24:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:20 ◼   ► So um growing up, you know, my family cars, we would go past a

01:24:23 ◼   ► hundred thousand miles.

01:24:25 ◼   ► Um not that far past, um, but you know, maybe a hundred and ten,

01:24:29 ◼   ► hundred and twenty.

01:24:30 ◼   ► Um my personally owned ones, my Nissan Maxima was the highest at ninety four

01:24:36 ◼   ► thousand.

01:24:37 ◼   ► So you never crossed a hundred thousand.

01:24:38 ◼   ► Wow.

01:24:39 ◼   ► I honestly I would have loved to, but at that point there were a

01:24:43 ◼   ► whole bunch of repairs the car needed that were not related to the engine.

01:24:46 ◼   ► Like a whole there was like I that car, I don't know what happened

01:24:50 ◼   ► to it before I owned it, but the weirdest stuff would break on that

01:24:53 ◼   ► car.

01:24:54 ◼   ► Like I had to replace like the windshield washer fluid tank.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Why?

01:24:59 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:25:00 ◼   ► Like there's it's j I I I had to replace like thousands of dollars

01:25:05 ◼   ► worth of really minor little crap all around the car.

01:25:08 ◼   ► Yep.

01:25:08 ◼   ► What year was it?

01:25:09 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

01:25:10 ◼   ► 96.

01:25:10 ◼   ► Oh see.

01:25:11 ◼   ► So the 300ZX was ninety-one and it was very much the same at the

01:25:15 ◼   ► end of life.

01:25:15 ◼   ► It just started falling apart.

01:25:17 ◼   ► Yeah and like and I wish like 'Cause you know, it it it was

01:25:19 ◼   ► a you know, nineties Japanese car.

01:25:21 ◼   ► It it should have been able to go significantly longer than ninety four thousand

01:25:25 ◼   ► miles.

01:25:25 ◼   ► And it could have if I you know, if I actually like kept up

01:25:29 ◼   ► with all these repairs.

01:25:30 ◼   ► But I honestly at that point it was costing so much in minor repairs,

01:25:33 ◼   ► I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna get a new and that's

01:25:35 ◼   ► that's when I replaced it with a new accord.

01:25:37 ◼   ► Oh, that's right.

01:25:38 ◼   ► I forgot about that step in your journey.

01:25:39 ◼   ► Yes.

01:25:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It w I mean there was a gap between where I where I didn't

01:25:42 ◼   ► have a car for a few months, um, but that didn't last very long.

01:25:45 ◼   ► Was the Maxima the Maxima was not a stick, is that right?

01:25:47 ◼   ► No, no, it was.

01:25:48 ◼   ► It was a ninety six Nissan Maxima SE.

01:25:51 ◼   ► Four door sports car.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Yep.

01:25:53 ◼   ► It was all leather inside with the Bose stereo.

01:25:56 ◼   ► It had like every other option you could get on a Maxima SE was

01:25:59 ◼   ► all there, but with a stick.

01:26:00 ◼   ► That car, I loved that car.

01:26:03 ◼   ► It was so good.

01:26:04 ◼   ► Oh man, those those were so hot.

01:26:06 ◼   ► I swear to you, if you think of like my well, I don't think

01:26:09 ◼   ► they make the maxima anymore in heaven for several years, but the most recent

01:26:12 ◼   ► maxima that I can think of was like a crossover now.

01:26:14 ◼   ► Yeah, right.

01:26:15 ◼   ► The most recent maxima I can think of was like very bulbous and gross.

01:26:18 ◼   ► It had like a vertical sunroof that didn't or something like that.

01:26:21 ◼   ► They they really have not been good for a long time, but like the

01:26:24 ◼   ► mid to late nineties and the early aughts, they were so hot.

01:26:29 ◼   ► And you could get them with decent power with a five speed, maybe even

01:26:33 ◼   ► a six speed toward the end of this being an option.

01:26:35 ◼   ► God, they were so hot.

01:26:36 ◼   ► Oh my god, I wanted one so bad.

01:26:38 ◼   ► And honestly, I would greatly prefer the climate control in this car to the

01:26:42 ◼   ► car I have now.

01:26:43 ◼   ► Look at all those buttons.

01:26:44 ◼   ► Physical controls.

01:26:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:46 ◼   ► Imagine that.

01:26:46 ◼   ► And like high fan speeds, strong AC.

01:26:49 ◼   ► That's I I love the IX in lots of ways.

01:26:52 ◼   ► The climate control sucks.

01:26:53 ◼   ► Like it's not good.

01:26:55 ◼   ► I hear that.

01:26:56 ◼   ► Uh we'll come back to the highest mileage we think you should go.

01:26:58 ◼   ► But first, John, what how high have you been?

01:27:01 ◼   ► I mean, it's I think it's different for cars that I've owned versus cars

01:27:04 ◼   ► that I've driven.

01:27:05 ◼   ► So I put in I was trying to find pictures of this.

01:27:07 ◼   ► It always frustrates me when I can't find any pictures of the exact car.

01:27:10 ◼   ► But anyway, you can see on our um Slack channel.

01:27:14 ◼   ► 1980 something, I think ours was 1981, uh Volvo Volvo 240 wagon.

01:27:19 ◼   ► That That's what I learned to drive stick on.

01:27:21 ◼   ► Oh, these were these were hot in the like they're actually hideously boxy and

01:27:26 ◼   ► gross, but I still love them way.

01:27:29 ◼   ► Yeah, they're very uh very ungainly, very awkward looking, uh very hard clutch depressed

01:27:34 ◼   ► to be stiff for that eighty horsepower engine in there.

01:27:37 ◼   ► Um no pickup whatsoever.

01:27:40 ◼   ► It had uh it uh the stick shift was uh four gears in an

01:27:43 ◼   ► H pattern and uh with a button on the top of the shifter to

01:27:46 ◼   ► go into the fifth overdrive gear, like an electronically actuated overdrive.