The Accidental Tech Podcast

206: All You Need Is Five Nerds


00:00:00   mmm already tired of already cranky is [TS]

00:00:03   gonna be a long show if only there was [TS]

00:00:06   like a mile beverage you could take that [TS]

00:00:08   would help you be a little more awake [TS]

00:00:10   and alert for a little while after you [TS]

00:00:11   take it that would really come in handy [TS]

00:00:13   Marco drug pusher I mean of all the [TS]

00:00:16   drugs that you can be mildly chemically [TS]

00:00:18   addicted to it is by far the most [TS]

00:00:20   pleasant at least harmful that's not [TS]

00:00:22   true i'm sure there are less harmful [TS]

00:00:24   drugs to be addicted I mean deodorant [TS]

00:00:27   maybe but like I I would that's not [TS]

00:00:29   really a chemical addiction that power [TS]

00:00:31   using the other hand he's huffing it [TS]

00:00:35   that's what he's doing now I i did have [TS]

00:00:38   a glass of diet coke [TS]

00:00:39   you're right so maybe that will help a [TS]

00:00:41   little bit because that's what you're [TS]

00:00:42   talking about is caffeine and I get my [TS]

00:00:44   caffeine free diet coke like any [TS]

00:00:46   responsible human would do right [TS]

00:00:47   surrounded by cancer sugar good luck [TS]

00:00:49   with that it's better than having to [TS]

00:00:50   choke down coffee and all right so [TS]

00:00:52   anyway so yeah so I'm nothing in the [TS]

00:00:55   world is worse in the food world right [TS]

00:00:57   now then these than the gradual invasion [TS]

00:01:00   of sucralose into everything [TS]

00:01:02   why why just use real sugar or don't [TS]

00:01:06   sweeten it [TS]

00:01:06   sucralose is the worst in the universe [TS]

00:01:09   you can always taste that horrible [TS]

00:01:11   aftertaste lata two girls in it [TS]

00:01:14   well so that's the thing is the horrible [TS]

00:01:16   aftertaste that that regular humans like [TS]

00:01:18   yourself get from diet coke i actually [TS]

00:01:20   get that from regular coke like the [TS]

00:01:22   regular coke lingers in my mouth days [TS]

00:01:24   and diet coke with phosphoric acid just [TS]

00:01:28   stop drinking soda is all so it is [TS]

00:01:31   terrible i don't i drink diet coke while [TS]

00:01:35   you have a candidate can at lunch [TS]

00:01:37   pretty much every day well it during the [TS]

00:01:39   week that is and then I'll usually have [TS]

00:01:41   like a glass after dinner and that's it [TS]

00:01:43   but I've no i have not yet found any [TS]

00:01:47   demonstrable proof in my own body i'm [TS]

00:01:50   not saying this is true for anyone else [TS]

00:01:52   but in my own body i have not yet found [TS]

00:01:53   demonstrable proof that caffeine and [TS]

00:01:56   negatively impact my ability to sleep [TS]

00:01:58   especially after you to keep me up and [TS]

00:02:00   jump into its but uh but i can i can [TS]

00:02:04   have a fair bit of diet coke in the [TS]

00:02:06   evening right before going to sleep I'm [TS]

00:02:07   fine [TS]

00:02:08   that's the word why it's ahead [TS]

00:02:11   so but the thing is though you are right [TS]

00:02:13   that diet coke is bad but coincidentally [TS]

00:02:15   i am also right that coffee is revolting [TS]

00:02:19   we're both know that all the wrong I [TS]

00:02:21   think there's a large body of evidence [TS]

00:02:23   to suggest that I'm right on this and [TS]

00:02:25   the coffee's discussing and I've got [TS]

00:02:27   dried off guard i would hate to be that [TS]

00:02:29   person that has to have a cup of coffee [TS]

00:02:31   in the morning in order to function [TS]

00:02:33   screw that you know what I do in order [TS]

00:02:35   to to function in the morning i get out [TS]

00:02:37   of bed i don't even shower in the [TS]

00:02:39   morning shower tonight because PS shower [TS]

00:02:40   in the mornings disgusting you should be [TS]

00:02:41   showering before you get in bed rather [TS]

00:02:43   than sleeping on three weeks worth of [TS]

00:02:44   filth but anyway your ears piling on the [TS]

00:02:48   unpopular opinions and keep going out [TS]

00:02:49   but no it's not my fault everyone's [TS]

00:02:51   wrong but are you washing your sheets [TS]

00:02:54   hang on a second i'm doing some math now [TS]

00:02:56   you may be slightly off on your sheet [TS]

00:02:59   washing cycle night it is more often [TS]

00:03:02   than once every three weeks but but but [TS]

00:03:04   seriously I cannot fathom like I [TS]

00:03:06   understand that I am the weirdo on this [TS]

00:03:08   one all snark aside I'm the weird one [TS]

00:03:10   that almost everyone i know showers when [TS]

00:03:12   they wake up i'm trying to make two [TS]

00:03:14   different points simultaneously number [TS]

00:03:16   one I currently as it stands today have [TS]

00:03:21   no morning routine in order to get out [TS]

00:03:24   to get myself moving in the morning what [TS]

00:03:26   the way I get myself moving in the [TS]

00:03:28   morning as I open my eyes I am ready to [TS]

00:03:30   go after that so so i'm looking at a at [TS]

00:03:33   a little avatar view of my skype client [TS]

00:03:35   that doesn't actually are is actually [TS]

00:03:38   does actually reflect generally what you [TS]

00:03:40   look like and your hair is really nicely [TS]

00:03:43   done it was like you might have some [TS]

00:03:44   product in there so does that just did [TS]

00:03:46   you put it on nights in our data that's [TS]

00:03:48   a hit fair criticism that's an entirely [TS]

00:03:50   different issues what I meant to say i [TS]

00:03:51   have my morning routine don't get me [TS]

00:03:53   wrong i want my point was just that i'm [TS]

00:03:55   not one of those people that needs like [TS]

00:03:56   a coffee in order to be ready to handle [TS]

00:03:58   the day like you can come at me right [TS]

00:04:00   first thing in the morning with some [TS]

00:04:01   sort of technical problem and I'm okay [TS]

00:04:03   with that [TS]

00:04:04   now the one thing i did not consider is [TS]

00:04:07   I do need to consume something for [TS]

00:04:09   breakfast it can be damn near anything i [TS]

00:04:11   have a poptart can have a go i typically [TS]

00:04:13   make myself a fruit smoothie whatever [TS]

00:04:15   you know I would want to be the kind of [TS]

00:04:16   person who couldn't fuck in the morning [TS]

00:04:17   before eight something I just get out of [TS]

00:04:19   bed i'm ready i'm ready to solve [TS]

00:04:21   problems I I often will start work and [TS]

00:04:23   programming [TS]

00:04:24   for had coffee that's a thing like I [TS]

00:04:26   don't often have coffee to like ten or [TS]

00:04:28   eleven o'clock i seeso see I'm okay with [TS]

00:04:30   that [TS]

00:04:31   it's these people that typically work in [TS]

00:04:33   an office that are like I don't talk to [TS]

00:04:34   me having my coffee like screw that [TS]

00:04:36   come on you're an adult that that's just [TS]

00:04:39   them being like a pin but like you don't [TS]

00:04:40   like it they weren't complaining about [TS]

00:04:41   the coffee to complain about something [TS]

00:04:42   else [TS]

00:04:43   I agree we agree no I will say though in [TS]

00:04:45   defense of your weird night showering [TS]

00:04:47   habit it having traveled with you a [TS]

00:04:49   bunch it actually makes it really [TS]

00:04:51   convenient to travel with you because [TS]

00:04:53   you're I've never waiting on the morning [TS]

00:04:56   for you to get ready you're always ready [TS]

00:04:58   like whenever I am because I'm more i'm [TS]

00:05:00   a morning shower so of course I take [TS]

00:05:01   long i also sleep as long as I possibly [TS]

00:05:03   can [TS]

00:05:04   I've never waiting for you ever let me [TS]

00:05:06   travel that I don't know if that's [TS]

00:05:07   actually true [TS]

00:05:08   not that i would i would hope you don't [TS]

00:05:10   ever way from the morning i'm sure [TS]

00:05:11   there's some point in time where you're [TS]

00:05:13   waiting on me well when you're doing [TS]

00:05:14   your hair now she's actually it would be [TS]

00:05:18   I don't know actually shared a hotel [TS]

00:05:20   room but if we ever had two that are [TS]

00:05:22   very convenient also to have you be a [TS]

00:05:25   nice shower then you were not competing [TS]

00:05:26   for the shower in the morning either [TS]

00:05:28   that's true that's true but the whole [TS]

00:05:30   point I was trying to make is like I say [TS]

00:05:31   is twofold one I mean I could handle [TS]

00:05:34   technical problem first thing in the [TS]

00:05:35   morning i prefer to have a breakfast [TS]

00:05:37   first but I don't have to win but number [TS]

00:05:39   two I can't get out of my head how gross [TS]

00:05:42   it is for someone to take the day's [TS]

00:05:45   filth and put it into their bed every [TS]

00:05:49   night every night today's Phil Monday's [TS]

00:05:51   fell into the bed [TS]

00:05:52   Tuesday's felt let's add tuesday on the [TS]

00:05:54   Monday spills Wednesday's belt [TS]

00:05:56   let's add Wednesday spill into Tuesday's [TS]

00:05:58   built under Monday's filth and let's [TS]

00:05:59   just rolling it 48 hours that sounds [TS]

00:06:02   awesome [TS]

00:06:03   and again I recognized before the entire [TS]

00:06:05   internet writes me which they're about [TS]

00:06:06   to do anyway I recognize that this is a [TS]

00:06:08   weird thing and that i am the weird one [TS]

00:06:10   here but I cannot fathom how any human [TS]

00:06:14   being that values hygiene can get into [TS]

00:06:17   covers that their that they're getting [TS]

00:06:19   in without showering first that's [TS]

00:06:21   disgusting [TS]

00:06:22   I don't get it now this is where a [TS]

00:06:23   couple of that sort a few things because [TS]

00:06:25   you're number one in the district during [TS]

00:06:26   the week with that [TS]

00:06:28   so how dirty you getting during the day [TS]

00:06:29   you sit in an air-conditioned office [TS]

00:06:31   behind a queue behind a chair it in a [TS]

00:06:33   chair behind a computer screen [TS]

00:06:35   blah blah blah it's late still [TS]

00:06:37   some point it's I I can only speak for [TS]

00:06:40   myself but at some point at some point [TS]

00:06:41   during the day I probably have at least [TS]

00:06:43   a little shimmer on me of sweat of dirt [TS]

00:06:46   of something that you don't winter there [TS]

00:06:48   may be number two man in the south [TS]

00:06:51   I'm choosing what what what battles to [TS]

00:06:53   fight nevertheless I don't remember too [TS]

00:06:55   this is where all sorts of people come [TS]

00:06:57   out of the woodwork and say what don't [TS]

00:06:58   you sweat at night sometimes you're [TS]

00:07:00   absolutely right sometimes i do but at [TS]

00:07:02   least leave it as the night dirt that's [TS]

00:07:04   in the bed why not why did you [TS]

00:07:06   contribute the date on top of the night [TS]

00:07:08   dirt that's barbaric I tell you it's [TS]

00:07:10   it's something I think your threat model [TS]

00:07:12   for a dirty sheets is wrong i think [TS]

00:07:14   about the whole model of like how how [TS]

00:07:18   she's exist in one state and how [TS]

00:07:20   transfer happens from you to the sheets [TS]

00:07:23   putting them in a state that you don't [TS]

00:07:25   like I think the whole model is wrong [TS]

00:07:26   because well maybe we don't want to get [TS]

00:07:28   into engine but are you sleeping naked [TS]

00:07:29   because because that wouldn't you like [TS]

00:07:32   to know John I'd I'm just saying like it [TS]

00:07:35   seems like what your modeling here is an [TS]

00:07:38   idea of how it did how how things would [TS]

00:07:43   transfer from one place to another [TS]

00:07:45   making one thing that was clean dirty [TS]

00:07:47   right but i don't know if that idea maps [TS]

00:07:49   to the reality of you sleeping in beds [TS]

00:07:51   it's an alternative reality John moving [TS]

00:07:53   on like Michael favorite my favorite [TS]

00:07:55   thing about this conversation is all the [TS]

00:07:58   new listeners we got last week thinking [TS]

00:08:00   expect you know what what they're going [TS]

00:08:02   to expect that this show is an etude in [TS]

00:08:05   here this this document tune in live [TS]

00:08:07   they'll just be the pre-recorded one and [TS]

00:08:09   this will not be heavily featured at the [TS]

00:08:11   start of the program [TS]

00:08:12   let's hope not let's hope nothing so [TS]

00:08:16   let's start with some follow-up Consumer [TS]

00:08:18   Reports has recommended macbook pro so [TS]

00:08:20   turns out that they have worked with [TS]

00:08:23   apple in order to fix apples bugs which [TS]

00:08:27   may or may not entirely be apple's fault [TS]

00:08:28   i guess the bugs were anyway just matter [TS]

00:08:30   point is they have retested their [TS]

00:08:32   macbook pros one model got almost 19 [TS]

00:08:35   hours on a charge i'm not entirely clear [TS]

00:08:38   how that could be possible but that's [TS]

00:08:40   what they say that because that because [TS]

00:08:42   that's how their tests work like it [TS]

00:08:43   they're gonna sort of thing before the [TS]

00:08:45   absolute numbers don't really matter and [TS]

00:08:46   test like this because there's no way [TS]

00:08:48   you're actually gonna write you know [TS]

00:08:49   simulate any particular user [TS]

00:08:51   all you want to know is we use the same [TS]

00:08:53   test all the time is this better or [TS]

00:08:55   worse in the same then like the previous [TS]

00:08:56   Mac or different model you want some [TS]

00:08:58   kind of consistency within the numbers [TS]

00:08:59   but you know it's a it's like story [TS]

00:09:01   points in a sprint Casey happened i [TS]

00:09:04   don't know i don't know what you're [TS]

00:09:06   talking about [TS]

00:09:07   so for the consumer reports thing the [TS]

00:09:09   main reason i put in there was just that [TS]

00:09:10   you have to follow up on like a guess [TS]

00:09:12   what like we said that they probably [TS]

00:09:13   last time they retested everything's [TS]

00:09:14   fine blah blah but thinking it from it [TS]

00:09:17   from the perspective of someone who used [TS]

00:09:20   to write for a publication that did [TS]

00:09:22   product reviews do product reviews [TS]

00:09:24   myself as as like an institution for [TS]

00:09:27   doing reviews as a publication as a [TS]

00:09:30   venue is a place where people get [TS]

00:09:31   information [TS]

00:09:32   this is not a good outcome because now [TS]

00:09:36   anyone who reads Consumer Reports has to [TS]

00:09:38   think [TS]

00:09:39   Consumer Reports didn't recommended but [TS]

00:09:42   is this the real story or do we have to [TS]

00:09:43   wait two weeks trying to figure out what [TS]

00:09:45   the real story wasn't to tell us where [TS]

00:09:46   they should get it not like it [TS]

00:09:47   their job is to tell us whether this [TS]

00:09:50   laptop is worth buying or it should be [TS]

00:09:52   avoided and i'm going to say although [TS]

00:09:55   some people may differ that the product [TS]

00:09:58   within without this bug like whether you [TS]

00:10:00   have the beta version to fix this bug [TS]

00:10:02   fix or whether you don't have the beta [TS]

00:10:03   version is not that different markers [TS]

00:10:05   using it presumably without this beta [TS]

00:10:07   fix and it is it is a satisfactory [TS]

00:10:09   product right with the beta fix maybe [TS]

00:10:13   it'll be a little better [TS]

00:10:14   stop about you you talked about the [TS]

00:10:16   whole last time about how you know it's [TS]

00:10:18   not as bad as you thought it would be so [TS]

00:10:19   like I'm not saying I don't know just [TS]

00:10:20   every week I waffle on on whether I'll [TS]

00:10:22   whether I like the new one or whether i [TS]

00:10:24   want to switch back to the old one [TS]

00:10:25   because of the battery life or disable [TS]

00:10:27   oh yeah that really so i can actually do [TS]

00:10:31   my own tests and and the battery life is [TS]

00:10:33   not good but it's ok and the old one was [TS]

00:10:37   similar but was also not good but ok but [TS]

00:10:39   God the keyboard is so bad [TS]

00:10:42   let's say maybe they can't even [TS]

00:10:43   recommend the product market remind me [TS]

00:10:46   have you tried the magic keyboard we've [TS]

00:10:48   been through this so many times I [TS]

00:10:49   honestly don't recall now for it because [TS]

00:10:50   I'm for desktops I got using gamma [TS]

00:10:52   keyboard like I I yeah I use desktops [TS]

00:10:55   too heavily and I have minor RSI [TS]

00:10:57   problems if i use regular keyboards and [TS]

00:10:59   so to avoid those and we would become a [TS]

00:11:01   major our psyche problems i use [TS]

00:11:04   ergonomic keyboards and not totally i [TS]

00:11:06   was just curious I didn't know if you'd [TS]

00:11:07   like tried one for more than 10 seconds [TS]

00:11:09   in a store because I find that I i I've [TS]

00:11:13   talked long to anyone who'll listen how [TS]

00:11:15   about how much i love the magic keyboard [TS]

00:11:17   and i've only used the new macbook pro [TS]

00:11:19   keyboard for but flash so I'm you and it [TS]

00:11:22   was awhile ago this is all I memory and [TS]

00:11:24   it was a very brief time that I used it [TS]

00:11:27   but I feel like the frustrating thing [TS]

00:11:29   for me about the new macbook pro [TS]

00:11:31   keyboard was that it was like eighty [TS]

00:11:33   percent of perfection because i'm not [TS]

00:11:35   saying you agree i'm just saying to me [TS]

00:11:37   because it was so similar to the magic [TS]

00:11:39   keyboard but i think the throw was a [TS]

00:11:41   little bit smaller in that difference [TS]

00:11:44   was enough to just drive me batty and [TS]

00:11:47   i'm sure i would get used to it over [TS]

00:11:48   time but man was it annoying because i [TS]

00:11:51   feel like it was so close [TS]

00:11:52   you're right there you almost had it and [TS]

00:11:55   they didn't quite get there and the [TS]

00:11:56   thing that's scary to me is that I [TS]

00:11:58   suspect whenever a magic keyboard to [TS]

00:12:00   happens i bet you anything they're going [TS]

00:12:02   to use that keyboard with the shorter [TS]

00:12:04   throw [TS]

00:12:05   and I'm going to be very sad and I'm [TS]

00:12:06   gonna be the I'm gonna be Gruber in [TS]

00:12:08   buying a thousand four original magic [TS]

00:12:10   keyboards to keep around until kingdom [TS]

00:12:12   come [TS]

00:12:12   because this is my favorite keyboard [TS]

00:12:14   I've ever used well makes first of all I [TS]

00:12:16   actually have done that myself I [TS]

00:12:17   microsoft upgraded the the sculpt [TS]

00:12:21   ergonomic keyboard that i have used for [TS]

00:12:23   a few years now as my main one they [TS]

00:12:25   quote upgraded that to the new surface [TS]

00:12:28   or [TS]

00:12:28   comic keyboard and I bought one and [TS]

00:12:31   actually return it because the surface [TS]

00:12:33   organic keyboard has his bluetooth [TS]

00:12:36   instead of its own customized thing but [TS]

00:12:37   it has expecially bluetooth [TS]

00:12:39   implementation details i guess that are [TS]

00:12:42   incredibly incompatible with Max and [TS]

00:12:45   I've never had a pc keyboard that was [TS]

00:12:47   incompatible with a mac before the [TS]

00:12:49   microsoft sculpt ergonomic is one of [TS]

00:12:50   these I mean the microsoft surface [TS]

00:12:52   around excuse me and and they're the two [TS]

00:12:55   main problems if you're looking at this [TS]

00:12:56   a lot of people asking us to main [TS]

00:12:58   problem number one you can't remap [TS]

00:13:00   option and command to be like on windows [TS]

00:13:03   and all properly the system panel that [TS]

00:13:05   you do it in for every other pc keyboard [TS]

00:13:07   the changes doesn't apply it doesn't [TS]

00:13:09   work like you can change it there but [TS]

00:13:11   the the keys still don't change their [TS]

00:13:13   functions and the second problem which [TS]

00:13:15   is even more fatal than that is that [TS]

00:13:17   it's Bluetooth implementation basically [TS]

00:13:21   it falls asleep after a while and when [TS]

00:13:23   you wake it up by pushing keys again the [TS]

00:13:26   first couple keys you push don't get [TS]

00:13:27   recognized [TS]

00:13:28   so it's really a pain to use in practice [TS]

00:13:31   so it is effectively incompatible with [TS]

00:13:34   the mac first time I've ever had a pc [TS]

00:13:36   keyboard for this before that that's [TS]

00:13:37   been a problem and so I had to return it [TS]

00:13:39   and also the ergonomics got worse and i [TS]

00:13:41   got a year so there you go the key [TS]

00:13:43   switches feeling better but it is way [TS]

00:13:44   too wide because it added the the 10 key [TS]

00:13:47   numpad area back on and it's low and [TS]

00:13:50   flat does not have a riser in front so [TS]

00:13:52   the ergonomics are worse and whatever [TS]

00:13:54   the look they're going for its like gray [TS]

00:13:57   it's like the lining of cubicle walls [TS]

00:14:00   like the kind of like gray carpet [TS]

00:14:01   material you know that's it's like they [TS]

00:14:04   made a keyboard of that so big miss on [TS]

00:14:08   that and so it's so because the sculpt [TS]

00:14:10   ergonomic keyboard that I like so much [TS]

00:14:12   is now officially discontinued I I [TS]

00:14:15   stockpiled three of them right now [TS]

00:14:17   because you can still get them in most [TS]

00:14:18   places for like I'm around 60 70 bucks [TS]

00:14:20   so I stopped by a few with the price of [TS]

00:14:23   a figure like that's how I burn through [TS]

00:14:24   three of these which should be probably [TS]

00:14:26   five years or so six years or so then I [TS]

00:14:29   should probably go find something else [TS]

00:14:31   by them and is that one bluetooth the [TS]

00:14:35   the old one that you're stockpiling or [TS]

00:14:36   is that wired know it's it's own custom [TS]

00:14:40   RF dongle [TS]

00:14:40   most likely a nice and millions and has [TS]

00:14:42   a little thing and it's not very good [TS]

00:14:44   like the the sculpt the sculpt wireless [TS]

00:14:47   that i've been using for years now the [TS]

00:14:49   wireless thing is pretty flaky that's [TS]

00:14:51   usually the way these keyboards [TS]

00:14:52   eventually die the reason i replace them [TS]

00:14:54   is usually at the wireless things [TS]

00:14:56   becomes too unreliable and you can [TS]

00:14:58   change batteries and you can resync it [TS]

00:14:59   you can move it around eventually those [TS]

00:15:02   things just don't help anymore or it [TS]

00:15:04   still starts failing and and when it's [TS]

00:15:05   working properly it never fails it's [TS]

00:15:07   solid so whatever it is that kills these [TS]

00:15:10   keyboards after a maybe two years of use [TS]

00:15:13   that's that is what ultimately ends [TS]

00:15:16   these for me and for other people so [TS]

00:15:19   what are we trying to talk about [TS]

00:15:20   consumer reportsconsumerreports who [TS]

00:15:23   cares there i mean Consumer Reports [TS]

00:15:24   still going to keep doing the same BS [TS]

00:15:26   they do all the time going to keep doing [TS]

00:15:27   it every time there's a new apple [TS]

00:15:28   products going to get attention with [TS]

00:15:30   some crazy headline oftentimes it will [TS]

00:15:32   be about a real problem sometimes it [TS]

00:15:34   won't be but usually when it is a real [TS]

00:15:36   problem they will be overblowing it like [TS]

00:15:38   Marcus drinking beer tonight it [TS]

00:15:41   I've had like that my writing haha i've [TS]

00:15:45   had literally like one inch of beer is [TS]

00:15:47   still in the neck and your hammer and [TS]

00:15:49   it's and it's a four percent beer [TS]

00:15:51   there's there's no amount that I'm [TS]

00:15:53   saying have just you mentioned last time [TS]

00:15:55   I said I could tell when you're drinking [TS]

00:15:56   and you said oh yeah well next time tell [TS]

00:15:58   me and so I just did this is like the [TS]

00:16:01   lightest beer I've ever seen and I drink [TS]

00:16:03   all that none of it i do not i'm not a [TS]

00:16:05   tributing any kind of cause I'm just [TS]

00:16:07   saying I'm just saying [TS]

00:16:10   alright so also in this in this last [TS]

00:16:12   week I haven't had a chance to read this [TS]

00:16:14   so I'm gonna I'm gonna defer to you John [TS]

00:16:17   on this but there's a blog post on the [TS]

00:16:20   WebKit blog introducing riptide WebKit [TS]

00:16:23   retreating wavefront concurrent garbage [TS]

00:16:26   collector that sounds fancy [TS]

00:16:29   so what's this all about John well on [TS]

00:16:32   the last program where we talked to [TS]

00:16:34   chris lattner towards the end we talk [TS]

00:16:38   about a park vs garbage collection and [TS]

00:16:41   Christmas through this whole big thing [TS]

00:16:42   about the the trade-offs and the [TS]

00:16:44   different behaviors and that might have [TS]

00:16:47   been over a lot of people's heads [TS]

00:16:48   because it was lots of jargon there [TS]

00:16:50   this is another one of WebKit often does [TS]

00:16:53   these things too [TS]

00:16:53   the web good developers post the thing [TS]

00:16:56   that talks about some technical [TS]

00:16:57   underpinnings of some feature of the [TS]

00:16:59   browser or the engine usually and this [TS]

00:17:03   one describes their new garbage [TS]

00:17:05   collector for JavaScript kind of like a [TS]

00:17:08   the stuff that chris said you can't read [TS]

00:17:10   this starting from zero and understand [TS]

00:17:12   every part of it but they do go through [TS]

00:17:14   and explain a lot of it and I think if [TS]

00:17:15   you just Google some stuff and find some [TS]

00:17:17   links you can you know start [TS]

00:17:19   understanding it but I think it's a good [TS]

00:17:23   example of a lot of things that Chris [TS]

00:17:25   alluded to like that the the attributes [TS]

00:17:27   of a garbage collector that are very [TS]

00:17:28   similar to the attributes of Arc and [TS]

00:17:31   that there are there's additional [TS]

00:17:32   bookkeeping and stuff that has to be [TS]

00:17:33   done in line as part of the normal [TS]

00:17:36   operation because this is a slam against [TS]

00:17:39   arc is a very frequently that well [TS]

00:17:42   you've got all these reference counts [TS]

00:17:44   you know increment and decrement all of [TS]

00:17:46   your code you didn't write those things [TS]

00:17:47   but I get added anyway and it's just [TS]

00:17:49   like overhead and so even if you don't [TS]

00:17:52   understand all the weird nuances of this [TS]

00:17:54   very very long article i think it is [TS]

00:17:56   written in a very clear way whoever [TS]

00:17:57   wrote this I think that a good job you [TS]

00:17:59   have to assume some foundational [TS]

00:18:01   knowledge and maybe more of things could [TS]

00:18:04   be links because you know and love to [TS]

00:18:05   make things links and do you think that [TS]

00:18:07   I had no idea [TS]

00:18:08   yeah but anyway you can just the board [TS]

00:18:11   you don't understand just you know type [TS]

00:18:12   into google search box to look at the [TS]

00:18:14   wiki page or something and you are about [TS]

00:18:15   it so i would encourage anybody whose [TS]

00:18:18   interest was piqued by that discussion [TS]

00:18:21   on last week's episode to read maybe [TS]

00:18:24   over a couple nights this very long post [TS]

00:18:26   about web kids garbage collector because [TS]

00:18:29   i think it is really well done and you [TS]

00:18:32   learn a lot and you will also even if [TS]

00:18:36   you don't learn that much come to a gut [TS]

00:18:39   level understanding of exactly how much [TS]

00:18:41   of a pain in the butt is to make [TS]

00:18:42   JavaScript go fast and how much time and [TS]

00:18:44   effort and money is being put in doing [TS]

00:18:46   that indeed this was by Philip is low [TS]

00:18:49   just FYI i miss the beach way front [TS]

00:18:54   that's all you look riptide wave friends [TS]

00:18:56   God summertime if you read the whole [TS]

00:18:59   thing and understand a little bit of it [TS]

00:19:01   the title will make sense by the end [TS]

00:19:02   retreating way from concurrent garbage [TS]

00:19:04   collector all those words mean something [TS]

00:19:05   and are explained at length [TS]

00:19:07   article we go figure it's funny you know [TS]

00:19:09   I remember you being the heav'nly [TS]

00:19:12   opposed to the beach and I was only [TS]

00:19:13   mildly less supposed to it now the two [TS]

00:19:16   of us are both converted who knew [TS]

00:19:17   turns out i'm opposed to your [TS]

00:19:19   pronunciation of that word to which word [TS]

00:19:22   just keep going we're sponsor this week [TS]

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00:19:28   mattress and shockingly fair price [TS]

00:19:30   go to Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP [TS]

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00:19:38   they sell directly to consumers which [TS]

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00:19:46   design and is delivered in a remarkably [TS]

00:19:48   small box you can get up narrow stairs [TS]

00:19:50   and now also Casper often had an [TS]

00:19:52   adaptive pillow and soft breathable [TS]

00:19:54   sheets if you want those to the mattress [TS]

00:19:57   industry has forced consumers into pea [TS]

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00:20:02   the cost of dealing with retailers and [TS]

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00:20:05   onto the consumer the in-house team of [TS]

00:20:08   engineers a Casper spent thousands of [TS]

00:20:10   hours developing their mattress it [TS]

00:20:12   contains supportive memory foams for a [TS]

00:20:14   sleep surface with just the right sink [TS]

00:20:16   and just the right bounds and it's [TS]

00:20:18   breathable design sleep school to help [TS]

00:20:20   you regulate your temperature throughout [TS]

00:20:21   the night [TS]

00:20:22   Casper has also made by mattresses [TS]

00:20:24   online which sounds crazy completely [TS]

00:20:27   risk free and easy this is how this [TS]

00:20:29   works now for free delivery of course [TS]

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00:20:32   delivery but they also offer free [TS]

00:20:34   returns within a hundred knight home [TS]

00:20:36   trial and of course you might think well [TS]

00:20:38   I want to send backup mattress is huge [TS]

00:20:40   it's a pain in the butt if you don't [TS]

00:20:42   love it they will send somebody to pick [TS]

00:20:44   it up at your house and give you a full [TS]

00:20:47   refund [TS]

00:20:48   Casper understands the importance of [TS]

00:20:50   truly sleeping on a mattress before you [TS]

00:20:52   commit especially continue to be [TS]

00:20:53   spending a third of your life on it [TS]

00:20:55   so a hundred Knights you can decide at [TS]

00:20:57   the end you know it's not for me and [TS]

00:20:59   they'll send someone to your house to [TS]

00:21:00   pick it up [TS]

00:21:01   that's how to make it truly easy and [TS]

00:21:02   risk-free get yours today and try 419 [TS]

00:21:06   your own home with free delivery and [TS]

00:21:08   free returns with home pick up [TS]

00:21:10   completely risk-free go to Casper calm / [TS]

00:21:12   ATP and use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

00:21:16   towards your mattress thanks to cast for [TS]

00:21:18   sponsoring our show [TS]

00:21:19   alright so John had a big day yesterday [TS]

00:21:27   wasn't i believe when when the 10.3 beta [TS]

00:21:31   was released and John I have it on good [TS]

00:21:34   authority that you did a little happy [TS]

00:21:35   dance at your cubicle when you saw this [TS]

00:21:37   news come out [TS]

00:21:38   is that true please do not tonight i do [TS]

00:21:41   not do a happy dance my happy dance when [TS]

00:21:43   announcing the existence of the file [TS]

00:21:46   system that's my happy dance like you [TS]

00:21:49   know we had a bell [TS]

00:21:51   we had a happy dance we had all sorts of [TS]

00:21:52   things that time is past time [TS]

00:21:54   oh I will say this though so that we're [TS]

00:21:56   talking about is the announcement that [TS]

00:21:57   the announcement / lake or whatever that [TS]

00:22:00   iOS 10.3 and the beta builds the [TS]

00:22:03   developers can get now will apparently [TS]

00:22:05   convert your iOS device from hfs+ to a [TS]

00:22:11   PFS upon upgrade and that's mostly [TS]

00:22:15   notable because a it is a partial [TS]

00:22:18   fulfillment of the the goal Apple set [TS]

00:22:20   forth for itself at WC last year they [TS]

00:22:23   said you know we want to convert all of [TS]

00:22:26   our platforms that means like iOS and [TS]

00:22:28   mac OS I guess watch us to me [TS]

00:22:30   basically all of the platforms to be on [TS]

00:22:33   a PFS in 2017 2017 is the entire year [TS]

00:22:37   that inside which part of the year [TS]

00:22:38   whatever but here we are in january and [TS]

00:22:41   there's already a beta of iOS 10.3 that [TS]

00:22:44   commerce a PFS so it's not as if they're [TS]

00:22:46   wait until you know October whatever [TS]

00:22:48   when the successor to see air comes out [TS]

00:22:50   for for the mac or you know whatever [TS]

00:22:52   these things are going to be released [TS]

00:22:54   they seem to be ahead of the game ahead [TS]

00:22:56   of schedule and I was worried last year [TS]

00:22:59   that other really going to be able to [TS]

00:23:01   roll over their entire product line with [TS]

00:23:03   a new file system that they just [TS]

00:23:05   announced that you know next year [TS]

00:23:07   sometime but if they're apparently doing [TS]

00:23:10   well they seem confident people who have [TS]

00:23:12   upgraded I think Marco is one have not [TS]

00:23:14   seen all their data disappear in a puff [TS]

00:23:16   of smoke so things are looking good so [TS]

00:23:18   far right so my upgrade been totally [TS]

00:23:21   fine i didn't realize [TS]

00:23:24   so I hear it was new version new beta of [TS]

00:23:26   iOS comes out of course i installed on [TS]

00:23:30   my main phone immediately [TS]

00:23:32   look our zeros it does not learn from [TS]

00:23:35   iOS 5 you and I did this together on is [TS]

00:23:38   there was a 5-4 it was survived yet what [TS]

00:23:40   we learn together groups still gives me [TS]

00:23:42   crap about that yeah maybe you should [TS]

00:23:44   give you and me crap because you're both [TS]

00:23:46   idiots and here it is [TS]

00:23:48   well now to your defenses was a point [TS]

00:23:50   release right and the point releases are [TS]

00:23:52   usually completely harmless that they [TS]

00:23:55   are almost never a problem for almost [TS]

00:23:56   anybody and so you know that that would [TS]

00:24:00   that's why I figured let me do this [TS]

00:24:01   there's some new API need to test [TS]

00:24:03   against women let me try some stuff and [TS]

00:24:05   make sure everything works and [TS]

00:24:06   everything so [TS]

00:24:07   ok then after we i installed it like by [TS]

00:24:10   and like an hour later I learned that [TS]

00:24:14   oh I'm now using a PFS like it was it [TS]

00:24:17   was not not even a thing like I all I [TS]

00:24:19   noticed was that the install took maybe [TS]

00:24:21   15 minutes longer than I thought it [TS]

00:24:23   would [TS]

00:24:24   it was a little slow but otherwise like [TS]

00:24:26   my phone boot up everything's fine [TS]

00:24:27   everything's totally fine i had zero [TS]

00:24:29   issues so far and then a couple hours [TS]

00:24:31   later when chatting with john i learned [TS]

00:24:34   that i'm using a PFS before John funny [TS]

00:24:39   that is not really sure because i said i [TS]

00:24:41   used against the Sierra Deb builds that [TS]

00:24:43   doesn't like not in your main machine [TS]

00:24:45   that doesn't count if it's not like was [TS]

00:24:47   on my machine [TS]

00:24:48   it was as main machine is it could be [TS]

00:24:49   like I did everything that you could do [TS]

00:24:51   with a PFS on my machine you can't boot [TS]

00:24:54   off of it with Mac os10 now you you [TS]

00:24:56   cannot put off it but i was still using [TS]

00:24:58   it now well then you normally yeah [TS]

00:25:00   doesn't count [TS]

00:25:01   i'm using a PFS in production on my [TS]

00:25:03   machine before John and that I'm I'm [TS]

00:25:05   think I'm done for the year it's on your [TS]

00:25:07   phone your main machine [TS]

00:25:09   come on that your mac user computer use [TS]

00:25:11   most often anyway based on based on [TS]

00:25:14   nothing but Marcos a first-hand [TS]

00:25:16   experience of having upgraded and the [TS]

00:25:19   vague wording in Apple's release notes [TS]

00:25:22   that have been created out by various [TS]

00:25:24   people this is what we're talking about [TS]

00:25:27   on past shows about in place conversion [TS]

00:25:30   and how the design of a PFS makes that [TS]

00:25:34   not as crazy as you might think it [TS]

00:25:35   sounds so you may be thinking oh how is [TS]

00:25:37   it going to do [TS]

00:25:38   how's it going to upgrade my file system [TS]

00:25:40   do i have to have like fifty percent of [TS]

00:25:41   my storage free so we can write all day [TS]

00:25:43   to a new location and do this [TS]

00:25:45   thing or is it going like back it all up [TS]

00:25:46   to the cloud or make me do an itunes [TS]

00:25:48   backup and restore it [TS]

00:25:50   how is it going to how's it going to do [TS]

00:25:52   this about destroying my data and as we [TS]

00:25:54   discussed last time that the strategy is [TS]

00:25:56   that you leave all the data exactly [TS]

00:25:57   where it is you write a new set of [TS]

00:26:00   metadata structure somewhere in the [TS]

00:26:01   metadata is just like what tells you [TS]

00:26:04   information about the data where is it [TS]

00:26:05   how much of it is there like the [TS]

00:26:07   different names of the files the dates [TS]

00:26:08   all that crap right that somewhere and [TS]

00:26:11   that doesn't take up that much room like [TS]

00:26:13   you need a little you need a reasonable [TS]

00:26:15   probably fixed size trunk of metadata [TS]

00:26:17   more or less to plus or minus extended [TS]

00:26:19   attributes for each file and the bigger [TS]

00:26:24   files you have the more efficient this [TS]

00:26:26   is so if you have tons and tons of [TS]

00:26:28   relatively large files like music videos [TS]

00:26:30   it's even it's even bigger win so you [TS]

00:26:33   don't probably need that much free space [TS]

00:26:34   you need some free space for all iOS [TS]

00:26:36   operating as some researchers believe [TS]

00:26:38   that much they write all the metadata [TS]

00:26:40   they're pointing to the data exactly [TS]

00:26:42   where it exists and that only the very [TS]

00:26:44   very end after riding all the metadata [TS]

00:26:46   they do a very fast very quick operation [TS]

00:26:49   that says and big swapper Rooney rewrite [TS]

00:26:52   the headers and the volume to say well [TS]

00:26:53   actually now this is an aps a PFS volume [TS]

00:26:56   and the metadata is over here and that [TS]

00:26:59   little tiny critical section should only [TS]

00:27:01   take like fractions of a second right [TS]

00:27:04   that is the only time where you could [TS]

00:27:06   potentially have a problem with it [TS]

00:27:08   failed in the middle but even then they [TS]

00:27:09   could use journaling and everything to [TS]

00:27:10   defend against that you don't have to [TS]

00:27:12   worry about anymore than you normally [TS]

00:27:14   would you know somehow running out of [TS]

00:27:17   battery during your upgrade or I don't [TS]

00:27:19   even know what could happen because i [TS]

00:27:20   like you can accidentally unplug the [TS]

00:27:22   phone like they do want to be plugged in [TS]

00:27:23   when they're being upgraded but it's not [TS]

00:27:25   like you're gonna have a power cut [TS]

00:27:26   unless there's some sort of hardware [TS]

00:27:27   problem you really drain your battery so [TS]

00:27:29   the moral of story is yes upgrading in [TS]

00:27:32   place is a real thing it should go fine [TS]

00:27:35   and it is actually fairly safe assuming [TS]

00:27:39   everything goes ok so I'm not afraid of [TS]

00:27:42   doing is upgrade i'm not going to the [TS]

00:27:43   beta like I'm not going to hurry but [TS]

00:27:46   when 10.3 comes out i expect it to be [TS]

00:27:49   fairly uneventful barring any [TS]

00:27:51   catastrophic box because once you're [TS]

00:27:53   running a PFS then if there's a bug in a [TS]

00:27:56   PFS then you're going to be so [TS]

00:27:57   right but the conversion process itself [TS]

00:27:59   seems like it's okay what are you more [TS]

00:28:02   afraid of in practice bugs and a PFS or [TS]

00:28:06   the regular behavior of HFS plus yeah [TS]

00:28:09   that's not the only thing that bothered [TS]

00:28:10   me a little bit about the conversion I [TS]

00:28:11   was thinking about it more now that it's [TS]

00:28:13   a real thing because it the conversion [TS]

00:28:16   is a like what i would like to do is run [TS]

00:28:20   essentially at fsck or you know the the [TS]

00:28:23   repair thing to like to validate all the [TS]

00:28:26   hrs + metadata to make sure that it's [TS]

00:28:28   not incorrect in various ways and all [TS]

00:28:30   the ways that if you were to run disk [TS]

00:28:31   utility is right now it would find a [TS]

00:28:33   bunch of crap wrong because they profess [TS]

00:28:34   is weird and buggy and sometimes doesn't [TS]

00:28:36   keep track things the right way and it [TS]

00:28:37   will find stuff that can tell us wrong [TS]

00:28:39   by exhaustively going over the data and [TS]

00:28:41   metadata and comparing them in doing so [TS]

00:28:43   and so forth [TS]

00:28:43   I would like you to do that before it [TS]

00:28:46   dutifully various rights the new [TS]

00:28:47   metadata to a new location and based on [TS]

00:28:50   your 15-minute time i'm not sure that [TS]

00:28:51   does i don't i don't know how long it [TS]

00:28:53   would take to like to essentially fsck [TS]

00:28:55   hfs+ on a 64 gig iOS device maybe it's [TS]

00:29:00   faster than I think because the disk so [TS]

00:29:01   much smaller than you know like a [TS]

00:29:02   terabyte on a mac or whatever so I'm not [TS]

00:29:06   sure it's if it is doing that I would [TS]

00:29:08   feel more comfortable if before it [TS]

00:29:09   decided to make a copy made sure the [TS]

00:29:11   thing that it's copying is right and [TS]

00:29:13   this gets back to what you're saying [TS]

00:29:14   what are you afraid of bugs and a PFS or [TS]

00:29:15   bugs and hfs+ i'm still probably more [TS]

00:29:19   play afraid of bugs and a PFS because [TS]

00:29:22   bottom line it takes a long time for [TS]

00:29:23   file system to really bug free but at [TS]

00:29:28   the moment of conversion I am definitely [TS]

00:29:29   more worried about my existing hfs+ [TS]

00:29:33   disks and all my iOS devices having the [TS]

00:29:36   normal residue of problematic metadata [TS]

00:29:38   that seems to accumulate in all hfs+ [TS]

00:29:39   volumes [TS]

00:29:40   I'm more worried about that at that [TS]

00:29:42   point after conversion i have to say i [TS]

00:29:47   have to give the nod hfs+ for you know [TS]

00:29:50   for a brand new file systems that have [TS]

00:29:52   never been deployed an apple devices if [TS]

00:29:54   something is gonna go wrong it's going [TS]

00:29:57   to happen like that first big [TS]

00:29:58   deployments you know the address plus [TS]

00:30:00   for all those little crappy bugs i [TS]

00:30:02   really don't expect a massive data [TS]

00:30:05   destroying things to suddenly pop up [TS]

00:30:06   Davis plus is going to be what it is and [TS]

00:30:08   it has been for a long [TS]

00:30:09   time and it's not good not good by a [TS]

00:30:11   long stretch but presumably like I can't [TS]

00:30:14   remember the last time a at my camera is [TS]

00:30:18   that responses even updated but at all [TS]

00:30:20   the things they've done to it [TS]

00:30:21   none of them have caused any sort of [TS]

00:30:23   catastrophic problems at a BF s plus [TS]

00:30:25   that a BFS cock i cannot say these names [TS]

00:30:29   yeah anyway i'm i'm i'm gonna upgrade [TS]

00:30:32   everything i'm just going to go for it i [TS]

00:30:33   have a lot of backups you should have a [TS]

00:30:35   lot of backups to it's just all dive in [TS]

00:30:37   and see how it goes when it's part of [TS]

00:30:38   like you know on one hand it is awfully [TS]

00:30:41   bold for Apple to deploy their brand new [TS]

00:30:44   file system on their most popular device [TS]

00:30:47   like you know it's to make it part an [TS]

00:30:49   automatic not even like an opt-in but an [TS]

00:30:52   automatic part of seemingly all iOS 10.3 [TS]

00:30:55   install you know we'll see if the chips [TS]

00:30:56   that way but it looks like that's the [TS]

00:30:57   plan then that means all the iphones are [TS]

00:31:00   going to get this and they're all gonna [TS]

00:31:02   be converted when they reboot and that's [TS]

00:31:03   it right and that's a pretty bold move [TS]

00:31:05   on the other hand iOS is you know even [TS]

00:31:10   though it has a much larger install base [TS]

00:31:12   in many ways it's lower risk because the [TS]

00:31:16   nature of phones is that there are these [TS]

00:31:18   kind of closed systems you have like [TS]

00:31:20   very limited numbers of configurations [TS]

00:31:22   you don't have like weirdo like like on [TS]

00:31:24   a Mac you have all these different like [TS]

00:31:25   you know different discs and partition [TS]

00:31:27   schemes and all sorts of apps that could [TS]

00:31:29   be trying to mess with them or things [TS]

00:31:30   like that is all very much it's all very [TS]

00:31:32   controlled and there's fewer [TS]

00:31:34   combinations of things four [TS]

00:31:35   configurations and also the nature of [TS]

00:31:37   phones is that people lose break and [TS]

00:31:41   replace them often and so they're [TS]

00:31:43   designed in software and services to [TS]

00:31:47   have everything in the cloud and [TS]

00:31:48   everything backed up most of the time [TS]

00:31:50   and I mean that isn't in practice always [TS]

00:31:52   the case but that's the case way more [TS]

00:31:54   often on phones and it is on max so if [TS]

00:31:57   something does go cash probably wrong [TS]

00:31:59   for some percentage of users on the [TS]

00:32:00   phone it is probably less destructive [TS]

00:32:03   than if it happened on Mac OS yeah by [TS]

00:32:06   mostly her that well I mean the other [TS]

00:32:07   obvious reason why they would do is [TS]

00:32:09   versus because it's it's more important [TS]

00:32:11   and that's wherever it goes and the [TS]

00:32:12   Maccabee have fun like oh yeah i was [TS]

00:32:14   looking north meck but uh but yeah at [TS]

00:32:16   phones are so much more of a control [TS]

00:32:18   system and also all the weird crap about [TS]

00:32:21   a PFS which is mostly [TS]

00:32:23   good you know like that the space [TS]

00:32:25   sharing stuff and you know the the all [TS]

00:32:29   the things that make it behave [TS]

00:32:31   differently than you might expect are [TS]

00:32:34   not visible at all and iOS because iOS [TS]

00:32:36   doesn't have the problem of 10 different [TS]

00:32:38   ways that you can see free space and and [TS]

00:32:40   users looking at it like that there are [TS]

00:32:41   already the way you see free space and [TS]

00:32:43   iOS is already an illusion you go to you [TS]

00:32:45   know that the preferences in general and [TS]

00:32:47   usage and all that stuff like those [TS]

00:32:48   numbers have only a vague connection to [TS]

00:32:51   space on disk because they're totally [TS]

00:32:52   hiding all classes of things that don't [TS]

00:32:54   count towards your space and trying to [TS]

00:32:55   sum up space and attributed to [TS]

00:32:57   applications like it's already an [TS]

00:32:58   illusion [TS]

00:32:59   so there's no weirdness there whereas on [TS]

00:33:01   the mac if you do you know it did you [TS]

00:33:04   use the power of the file system and a [TS]

00:33:05   disk utilities actually updated to use [TS]

00:33:07   it [TS]

00:33:08   people can make arrangements to start to [TS]

00:33:11   make far less sense where you can have a [TS]

00:33:12   single a PFS container with three [TS]

00:33:14   volumes on it and then how to draw the [TS]

00:33:16   free space on them and it trying to [TS]

00:33:18   figure out when you make an instant copy [TS]

00:33:20   does that count as a space being taken [TS]

00:33:22   out now you have 2 1 gigabyte files [TS]

00:33:24   before you had one but the free space [TS]

00:33:25   didn't change even though you don't have [TS]

00:33:27   any shared volumes on the containers and [TS]

00:33:29   all that goes away on iOS and also iOS [TS]

00:33:32   is case sensitive so that gets rid of [TS]

00:33:34   all of whatever you're going to deal [TS]

00:33:35   with for you know case holding stuff I [TS]

00:33:38   did file one radar against a PFS back in [TS]

00:33:41   the early days about the whole character [TS]

00:33:43   encoding handling and the fact that you [TS]

00:33:46   can have two files with the apparently [TS]

00:33:48   the same name on the mac on a PFS but [TS]

00:33:50   you can't do that in hfs+ the age of us [TS]

00:33:52   plus does this normalization stuff to [TS]

00:33:55   try to make those them too weird [TS]

00:33:56   normalization but anyway I don't know [TS]

00:33:59   the state of that radar I don't think [TS]

00:34:00   it's the state of the radars change may [TS]

00:34:02   be as close as a dupe [TS]

00:34:03   I don't remember it went into the black [TS]

00:34:04   hole I haven't heard anything about it [TS]

00:34:06   but for max most the vast majority which [TS]

00:34:10   have case-insensitive filesystems [TS]

00:34:12   they're gonna have to make decisions [TS]

00:34:14   about that and I don't know what [TS]

00:34:16   decisions they made so if the Mac gets [TS]

00:34:20   the ability to boot from a PFS before [TS]

00:34:23   the octoberish release of whatever [TS]

00:34:25   follows mac OS Sierra i will be [TS]

00:34:27   surprised but on the other hand it's [TS]

00:34:29   January and already doing iOS maybe it [TS]

00:34:31   will come to the max [TS]

00:34:32   earlier but coming to the mac is [TS]

00:34:34   obviously the the change that I find [TS]

00:34:36   more interesting because I'm into the [TS]

00:34:37   mac and because you can actually see the [TS]

00:34:39   file system and i think it is actually [TS]

00:34:40   the more difficult one been doing iOS [TS]

00:34:42   that's interesting never thought of it [TS]

00:34:45   that way [TS]

00:34:47   any other thoughts about iOS 10-3 that [TS]

00:34:51   that our general in art spelled out in [TS]

00:34:53   the rest of our document now I don't [TS]

00:34:55   know [TS]

00:34:55   mark are you using it wasn't like [TS]

00:34:57   anything exciting in there [TS]

00:34:59   I know but heavy like as a user I don't [TS]

00:35:03   even really notice anything honestly [TS]

00:35:04   that's a good sign [TS]

00:35:05   sounds like it's stable I mean I've had [TS]

00:35:08   zero problems like nothing that I that [TS]

00:35:12   you typically associated with a beta one [TS]

00:35:14   of the major point release really you [TS]

00:35:16   know majorly it's like an iOS 11 like [TS]

00:35:18   it's nothing like a beta 1 like of that [TS]

00:35:21   level it is it if I didn't know [TS]

00:35:24   academically that was running a beta i [TS]

00:35:26   would not realize i was running a beta [TS]

00:35:28   that sounds like a pretty clear with me [TS]

00:35:30   so far anyway [TS]

00:35:32   the other thing on file system being [TS]

00:35:34   10.3 like the fact that this is a point [TS]

00:35:36   release and marketing without you don't [TS]

00:35:37   really notice that much of a difference [TS]

00:35:38   a PFS tech wise has capabilities that [TS]

00:35:43   could be leveraged in iOS 11 or whatever [TS]

00:35:45   the next major version is to provide [TS]

00:35:48   headlining style features so for example [TS]

00:35:50   snapshots the ability to preserve the [TS]

00:35:53   state of the entire file system [TS]

00:35:54   inconsistent state could be used [TS]

00:35:57   I don't know if Apple do this you know [TS]

00:35:58   it's a political issue more than [TS]

00:36:01   anything to roll your phone back to a [TS]

00:36:03   known good state in a reliable way [TS]

00:36:06   something that you can't really do now [TS]

00:36:07   all you have to do is restore from [TS]

00:36:08   backup or restore from iCloud and we [TS]

00:36:09   know how annoying that is to do but [TS]

00:36:12   imagine it before the the iOS 11.12 11.2 [TS]

00:36:16   upgrade it would just routinely snapshot [TS]

00:36:18   everything beforehand and if you didn't [TS]

00:36:20   like the upgrade at any point you could [TS]

00:36:22   switch back to the state it was like the [TS]

00:36:24   day before whatever there's no chance of [TS]

00:36:26   that I know whether but tech by tech [TS]

00:36:28   wise that is that is possible right and [TS]

00:36:30   i think what's more likely to be used is [TS]

00:36:33   maybe a recovery thing where like if an [TS]

00:36:36   upgrade fails for some time for some [TS]

00:36:38   reason there be some mechanism to to [TS]

00:36:40   have it kind of automatically roll [TS]

00:36:42   itself back you know that's that's more [TS]

00:36:44   likely i think [TS]

00:36:46   then I don't like the new icons I'm [TS]

00:36:47   gonna go back like Apple does not enable [TS]

00:36:49   that really at all [TS]

00:36:51   I mean are you could do it on a like [TS]

00:36:53   uh-uh I don't get any level they wanted [TS]

00:36:57   they could do a per-application level to [TS]

00:36:58   go back to an old version of application [TS]

00:37:00   they can do time machine type of [TS]

00:37:01   features inside applications to find old [TS]

00:37:03   versions of Android you can already do [TS]

00:37:05   this stuff in various ways above the [TS]

00:37:07   level of the file system but the fact [TS]

00:37:09   that you get this sort of for free out [TS]

00:37:11   of the filesystem and it's very [TS]

00:37:12   efficient and fast and presumably have [TS]

00:37:14   api's those are the types of things that [TS]

00:37:16   you've got a PFS now but you don't have [TS]

00:37:18   probably almost any of the features that [TS]

00:37:20   could be built on those are major OS [TS]

00:37:22   features they could be for a few naughty [TS]

00:37:24   maybe not even 11 maybe I was 12 or [TS]

00:37:25   whatever [TS]

00:37:26   same thing with on the mac if and when [TS]

00:37:28   we can boot maybe that's yeah that's all [TS]

00:37:30   well and good but there are many years [TS]

00:37:32   Pratap presumably of features that are [TS]

00:37:34   built us like who knows the time machine [TS]

00:37:35   will even be updated to support a PFS in [TS]

00:37:38   the next version of mac OS maybe want to [TS]

00:37:40   wait for the version after that it's not [TS]

00:37:41   it's non-trivial to take advantage of [TS]

00:37:44   all these features and you know i'm i'm [TS]

00:37:45   in no hurry it's like step one get the [TS]

00:37:47   file system with these features and make [TS]

00:37:48   it solid [TS]

00:37:49   step 2 3 4 and 5 then slowly roll out [TS]

00:37:52   the features that what consumers don't [TS]

00:37:55   care that it's enabled by the new file [TS]

00:37:56   system that only care about the features [TS]

00:37:57   but many things will be enabled by these [TS]

00:37:59   features so I look forward to them even [TS]

00:38:00   though 10.3 home new file system was the [TS]

00:38:03   big deal no big deal should come later [TS]

00:38:05   response to this week by indochino go to [TS]

00:38:10   indo gmail.com and use code ATP to get [TS]

00:38:12   any premium super just 389 [TS]

00:38:14   made-to-measure suits fit so much better [TS]

00:38:19   than generic off-the-rack suits from the [TS]

00:38:21   big you know menswear shops that you've [TS]

00:38:23   been to indochino makes this easy and [TS]

00:38:26   affordable and you look so much better [TS]

00:38:28   in a made-to-measure suit indochino is [TS]

00:38:30   one of the largest made-to-measure [TS]

00:38:32   menswear brands they give you high [TS]

00:38:34   quality suits that are made your exact [TS]

00:38:36   measurements for a perfect fit no matter [TS]

00:38:38   what shape you are believing I'm a [TS]

00:38:40   pretty bumpy shape and it fits me great [TS]

00:38:42   now you also get to customize your suit [TS]

00:38:44   just the way you want it [TS]

00:38:46   so I've had mine with the school like [TS]

00:38:48   dot fabric on the lining and so given [TS]

00:38:51   the kind of personality one on the [TS]

00:38:52   inside and I had the inscription say ATP [TS]

00:38:54   made me wear a suit as a little cheeky [TS]

00:38:56   reference that makes me smile every time [TS]

00:38:58   I see it [TS]

00:38:59   go to energy and accommodate set this up [TS]

00:39:00   you pick from hundreds of fabrics you [TS]

00:39:03   can choose your customizations lapels [TS]

00:39:05   please jacket linings funny sayings that [TS]

00:39:08   you want on the inside whatever it is [TS]

00:39:09   and the you submit the measurements for [TS]

00:39:11   your body and they have these great [TS]

00:39:13   videos to show you how to do it that you [TS]

00:39:15   place the order and you wait for it to [TS]

00:39:17   arrive in just four weeks or less [TS]

00:39:19   check it out today go to indochino [TS]

00:39:21   dot-com and you can get any premium [TS]

00:39:23   indochino suit for just 389 when [TS]

00:39:27   entering code ATP at checkout that's [TS]

00:39:29   fifty percent off the regular price for [TS]

00:39:31   a made-to-measure premium suit plus [TS]

00:39:33   shipping is free once again go to [TS]

00:39:36   indochino dot-com and use code ATP to [TS]

00:39:39   get any premium suit for just 389 [TS]

00:39:41   made-to-measure thanks a lot for [TS]

00:39:44   indochino for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:39:46   ah we have finally gotten our wish [TS]

00:39:52   and by our i mean mostly Marco and you [TS]

00:39:55   can respond to appstore reviews now [TS]

00:39:57   which is really exciting I think [TS]

00:40:00   developers been talking about this for [TS]

00:40:02   forever and a day I saw a link flyby to [TS]

00:40:05   chalks blog i don't have it handy i'll [TS]

00:40:08   see if i can pick it up for the show [TS]

00:40:09   notes but I think it's like 2009 or [TS]

00:40:11   something like that saying oh we should [TS]

00:40:14   really be able to respond to reviews in [TS]

00:40:17   the app store [TS]

00:40:18   android has been able to do this for a [TS]

00:40:20   long time and now it's finally a thing [TS]

00:40:23   and that's something to be excited about [TS]

00:40:26   it it seems pretty clear to me that Phil [TS]

00:40:28   Schiller is making moves so Marco how do [TS]

00:40:31   you feel [TS]

00:40:32   it's kind of amazing as an iOS to and [TS]

00:40:35   said some of this 11 filled first [TS]

00:40:37   started doing things like last last [TS]

00:40:39   spring and summer but it's just kind of [TS]

00:40:41   amazing as an iOS developer to have [TS]

00:40:43   things changing in the app store like [TS]

00:40:46   getting better at all because for here [TS]

00:40:49   we the app store is 18 years old eight [TS]

00:40:53   and a half of that something like and [TS]

00:40:54   during that time during like the first [TS]

00:40:57   1807 here to visit almost nothing [TS]

00:41:00   changed almost nothing improved there [TS]

00:41:03   were a few minor things here but [TS]

00:41:04   exceedingly minor things something even [TS]

00:41:06   got worse with it and so to have it be [TS]

00:41:11   worked on [TS]

00:41:12   and to have positive changes or any [TS]

00:41:15   changes is a new feeling for iOS [TS]

00:41:18   developers and overall since phil has [TS]

00:41:23   taken over i think the changes have been [TS]

00:41:24   overall quite good [TS]

00:41:26   very few things have been like a major [TS]

00:41:28   miss or majorly harmful even search ads [TS]

00:41:32   where they were very controversial and I [TS]

00:41:34   think that's with good reason [TS]

00:41:36   you know I I now spend more on search [TS]

00:41:40   ads than I do on my servers and I don't [TS]

00:41:43   love that [TS]

00:41:44   oh I didn't know that yeah I i was its [TS]

00:41:48   accounting time with taxes and [TS]

00:41:49   everything it so I'm looking back and [TS]

00:41:51   you know doing doing all the adding up [TS]

00:41:53   everything and I now spend a good amount [TS]

00:41:55   of money on search ads every week and I [TS]

00:41:59   have a graph sorry I mean this is a [TS]

00:42:01   diversion this is not the main topic [TS]

00:42:02   tonight I guess it could be if you want [TS]

00:42:04   to but anyway and you know basically I'm [TS]

00:42:07   now paying for certain part of my user [TS]

00:42:09   base and it isn't that big of a portion [TS]

00:42:11   of my user base that the overall search [TS]

00:42:13   ad traffic has been lower than I [TS]

00:42:15   expected and I don't think it's cuz i'm [TS]

00:42:17   losing auctions I think it was not being [TS]

00:42:19   shown or there aren't that many searches [TS]

00:42:20   for the things i'm betting on but the [TS]

00:42:24   the search ad system is possibly a net [TS]

00:42:28   improvement but it's something it's [TS]

00:42:30   something big and and your customers [TS]

00:42:32   that now i'm getting and and the way I'm [TS]

00:42:34   the way I have things split out and [TS]

00:42:37   being measured it is apparent to me that [TS]

00:42:39   most of the customers are getting by a [TS]

00:42:41   search ads are not coming for people who [TS]

00:42:43   are looking for overcast [TS]

00:42:45   they're coming people who are looking [TS]

00:42:46   for like podcast or some things like [TS]

00:42:48   that like you know more generic terms [TS]

00:42:50   competitor names things like that [TS]

00:42:51   because i have my overcast bids i have [TS]

00:42:55   on a separate campaign so i can tell [TS]

00:42:58   like and I spend a lot of money just get [TS]

00:43:00   people i was going anyway which you know [TS]

00:43:01   I don't want that number to be very high [TS]

00:43:03   although I don't really want anybody [TS]

00:43:05   else happening me either but you know if [TS]

00:43:07   that number was very high then I'm just [TS]

00:43:09   paying for people who tapped result [TS]

00:43:11   number one central number two in the [TS]

00:43:12   search and that's no good but the number [TS]

00:43:14   isn't very high that's not it that's not [TS]

00:43:15   a massive percentage of them spending [TS]

00:43:17   most our spending is on generic search [TS]

00:43:19   terms so the system is kind of working [TS]

00:43:23   as respected as designed [TS]

00:43:25   I don't love that i'm taking a portion [TS]

00:43:27   of what Apple's give me every month just [TS]

00:43:29   giving it right back to them had like [TS]

00:43:32   they're already there already taken [TS]

00:43:32   30-percent like you know is that i don't [TS]

00:43:34   i don't see it doesn't feel good to be [TS]

00:43:37   paying them back all this money but uh [TS]

00:43:40   but overall the search ads have been ok [TS]

00:43:43   I said they're not bringing in a large [TS]

00:43:45   percentage of new users off top my head [TS]

00:43:48   I actually know the number but i thought [TS]

00:43:49   my head I think it's probably like ten [TS]

00:43:51   percent or less of new users are coming [TS]

00:43:53   through search ads but but it's you know [TS]

00:43:56   it's in that ballpark at least but these [TS]

00:43:59   are people i wouldn't have gotten [TS]

00:44:00   otherwise pretty clearly from you can [TS]

00:44:02   tell from the search terms and from how [TS]

00:44:04   it when i go to store how I rank on [TS]

00:44:06   those search terms that store search is [TS]

00:44:08   terrible so like you know you search for [TS]

00:44:10   podcast like you know five the of the [TS]

00:44:12   first 10 apps like alarm clock [TS]

00:44:13   absolutely it's tough totally unrelated [TS]

00:44:15   literally like it said that the search [TS]

00:44:17   is still just as awful as those been but [TS]

00:44:20   but to have search ads there i am [TS]

00:44:22   getting customers would have gotten [TS]

00:44:23   before so that's that's overall positive [TS]

00:44:25   even though i'm paying for them and I'm [TS]

00:44:28   paying a little more than i would like [TS]

00:44:29   but it's still within the realm of [TS]

00:44:31   reasonable I think so anyway that aside [TS]

00:44:36   it is really nice going back to the [TS]

00:44:38   original question it is really nice to [TS]

00:44:40   have changes happening in the app store [TS]

00:44:42   that most of which are good and I i'm [TS]

00:44:46   also using subscriptions now using the [TS]

00:44:47   app purchase descriptions next [TS]

00:44:50   September's my start getting my 85% [TS]

00:44:52   people renewing that's gonna be a great [TS]

00:44:54   day because i'm going to just get a [TS]

00:44:55   raise for no reason [TS]

00:44:57   that's awesome so you know everybody let [TS]

00:44:59   your solutions- please but that's but [TS]

00:45:02   otherwise yeah so anyway so for this [TS]

00:45:04   specific change of responding to reviews [TS]

00:45:07   and I guess maybe we'll get later to to [TS]

00:45:10   the app review prompting mechanism [TS]

00:45:12   change [TS]

00:45:13   I don't know what we talked about that [TS]

00:45:14   on this show if not we talk about this [TS]

00:45:16   week's under-the-radar plug plug so [TS]

00:45:19   responding to reviews so as let me let [TS]

00:45:23   me begin by asking you guys at appstore [TS]

00:45:25   users do you read a lot of the reviews [TS]

00:45:28   know so basically if developers start [TS]

00:45:31   respond to reviews really will you [TS]

00:45:32   really see that I do read reviews for [TS]

00:45:35   apps that i have not liked [TS]

00:45:36   I have no idea about the whole domain [TS]

00:45:38   like I'm looking for and I was looking [TS]

00:45:39   for application recently for like laying [TS]

00:45:42   out where furniture is in room so I need [TS]

00:45:45   something can do walls and doors and [TS]

00:45:46   windows you know was correct to scale [TS]

00:45:48   measurements and have like you know [TS]

00:45:49   couches and tables you know just to see [TS]

00:45:51   how furnitures gonna fit in the room [TS]

00:45:52   without doing yourself by cutting a [TS]

00:45:54   little pieces of paper which is fun but [TS]

00:45:56   i figured that an ipad apple tree better [TS]

00:45:58   and i have no idea about that area and [TS]

00:46:01   as you noted searches terrible so I do [TS]

00:46:03   what I think are reasonable searches and [TS]

00:46:05   a big it shows a million hits half of [TS]

00:46:07   which are scams or pieces of garbage and [TS]

00:46:09   the ratings don't tell you that much [TS]

00:46:12   I have to actually look at the reviews [TS]

00:46:13   to see you know like a two-and-a-half [TS]

00:46:16   star thing could be 50 people cranky [TS]

00:46:19   that it's five dollars and then 150 [TS]

00:46:21   people who think it's actually [TS]

00:46:23   reasonably good at you have the only way [TS]

00:46:25   to tell that is to look at the reviews [TS]

00:46:26   so i will scroll through them and see [TS]

00:46:28   you know we could because you can't tell [TS]

00:46:30   people write things low for reasons [TS]

00:46:32   unrelated to the functionality up i'm [TS]

00:46:34   willing to pay 299 I don't care that [TS]

00:46:36   ninety percent of your reviews and [TS]

00:46:38   people who can't believe you'd want to [TS]

00:46:39   charge 299 for this like I just want to [TS]

00:46:41   do the job so I do read them and and we [TS]

00:46:45   buy suppose so [TS]

00:46:48   so my theory it was my impression of [TS]

00:46:51   this so far basically is like the [TS]

00:46:53   effectiveness and the value in [TS]

00:46:55   developers be able to respond to reviews [TS]

00:46:58   is highly dependent on implementation [TS]

00:47:01   details of how this is actually done for [TS]

00:47:04   both the reviewer the customer the [TS]

00:47:06   reviewer the developer and people [TS]

00:47:08   reading the reviews and also just how [TS]

00:47:11   many people actually do go through and [TS]

00:47:13   read reviews because I think iOS [TS]

00:47:15   developers I have a pretty good idea [TS]

00:47:17   that having star ratings matters having [TS]

00:47:20   a high average matters and it looks [TS]

00:47:23   better if you have a high number of them [TS]

00:47:25   because it says you know usually in [TS]

00:47:26   parentheses next to the star average [TS]

00:47:28   will tell you how many ratings there [TS]

00:47:29   were and so when when people are [TS]

00:47:32   choosing a nap or deciding whether to [TS]

00:47:34   download or buy a nap i think a lot of [TS]

00:47:36   people do look at those star ratings and [TS]

00:47:38   and that matters but the actual written [TS]

00:47:40   reviews we don't really know I I kind of [TS]

00:47:43   have a hunch that it didn't matter that [TS]

00:47:46   much that that not a large percentage of [TS]

00:47:48   people do go through and really [TS]

00:47:49   read them or reread decent number of [TS]

00:47:52   them and so if that's the case then [TS]

00:47:55   whether developers can respond to them [TS]

00:47:57   doesn't matter that much [TS]

00:47:59   and if you look you know at this is one [TS]

00:48:01   of those things that the android people [TS]

00:48:02   going crazy today because android had [TS]

00:48:04   this for years have maybe even since day [TS]

00:48:06   one I don't even know from what we hear [TS]

00:48:07   from Android people it's mostly a [TS]

00:48:09   non-issue it's like yeah some people do [TS]

00:48:12   it doesn't really matter like that's a [TS]

00:48:13   but it isn't that big of a deal right so [TS]

00:48:16   we don't know how this will play on iOS [TS]

00:48:19   that it isn't the same market but [TS]

00:48:20   there's certainly some overlap and if [TS]

00:48:23   I'm right that not a lot of people read [TS]

00:48:25   a lot of the reviews of the most of the [TS]

00:48:27   ratings then whether you as a developer [TS]

00:48:30   respond to them is really completely up [TS]

00:48:33   to you and it's it's kind of an optional [TS]

00:48:35   support channel if you want to be that [TS]

00:48:38   being said abster reviews like your [TS]

00:48:41   customers consider that a support [TS]

00:48:43   channel whether you do or not and that's [TS]

00:48:46   that's not going to suddenly start now [TS]

00:48:48   that developers can leave responses [TS]

00:48:50   that's always been the case you've [TS]

00:48:51   always had people treating the review [TS]

00:48:53   system as a support channel and using it [TS]

00:48:56   to you know grind axes or to ask weird [TS]

00:49:00   questions or to withhold stars as [TS]

00:49:03   hostages until you add their favorite [TS]

00:49:04   features like there has always been the [TS]

00:49:07   case it's not going to change that for [TS]

00:49:10   developers like the perception that [TS]

00:49:12   people expect you to respond has always [TS]

00:49:14   been there so that so people who are [TS]

00:49:17   upset now this is like an additional [TS]

00:49:18   supports and I have to manage the news [TS]

00:49:21   flash it always has been we just haven't [TS]

00:49:22   been able to manage it so now we we will [TS]

00:49:26   have a way to do it [TS]

00:49:27   implementation wise there's a huge open [TS]

00:49:30   question of how are these shown are they [TS]

00:49:33   shown in a way that many people will see [TS]

00:49:34   them one of my big questions about it is [TS]

00:49:36   if i respond to review is the person who [TS]

00:49:38   wrote it notified of that response is [TS]

00:49:41   sent to them in some way through you [TS]

00:49:42   know through like an email by apple or [TS]

00:49:44   something because if not then the value [TS]

00:49:47   I think for me responding is even lower [TS]

00:49:48   because a large part of the value if [TS]

00:49:51   somebody write something that is either [TS]

00:49:53   really a support request or is [TS]

00:49:56   indicating they're having some kind of [TS]

00:49:57   problem you could help with for the [TS]

00:49:59   misunderstanding the app in some way [TS]

00:50:01   like they're saying it doesn't have a [TS]

00:50:02   feature but really [TS]

00:50:03   does have that feature if they are [TS]

00:50:06   notified of my response the that has a [TS]

00:50:08   lot less value than to respond so that [TS]

00:50:11   their implementation details it's it's a [TS]

00:50:13   hit the rest a lot of this how are they [TS]

00:50:14   showing the interface [TS]

00:50:16   how did how to develop on how hard is it [TS]

00:50:18   to respond [TS]

00:50:19   do we have to go through some weird [TS]

00:50:20   iTunes Connect tool is there going to be [TS]

00:50:22   a third-party app that makes it easy how [TS]

00:50:24   we're going to deal with the different [TS]

00:50:26   storefronts and different parts of the [TS]

00:50:27   world having to deal with different [TS]

00:50:28   languages there there are lots of big [TS]

00:50:31   question marks on the implementation [TS]

00:50:32   details of this that will double decide [TS]

00:50:35   how effective it is reason whether it's [TS]

00:50:37   worth developers money or not and and of [TS]

00:50:39   course there's going to be the people [TS]

00:50:41   like Twitter and Facebook you just [TS]

00:50:43   respond to every single thing with [TS]

00:50:45   please email support and we'll try to [TS]

00:50:46   help you out he does like fake template [TS]

00:50:48   response but overall it's probably gonna [TS]

00:50:52   be either completely forgettable and [TS]

00:50:54   it's gonna be a total non-event and not [TS]

00:50:57   a lot of people are going to respond and [TS]

00:50:59   it'll be fine and nobody will care or it [TS]

00:51:02   will be a positive thing [TS]

00:51:03   the only downside is going to start [TS]

00:51:04   reading reviews going to be positive for [TS]

00:51:08   developers like a situation like one [TS]

00:51:10   this this is a developer pleasing [TS]

00:51:12   feature more than a customer pleasing [TS]

00:51:14   one seems yes absolutely needed like [TS]

00:51:16   customers may or may not care especially [TS]

00:51:17   if that I notified knows but if you [TS]

00:51:21   happen to be a specific developer who [TS]

00:51:24   has a specific app that has a very [TS]

00:51:26   popular lots of people clicked on [TS]

00:51:28   helpful blah blah like the top review is [TS]

00:51:31   a scathing review filled with mistaken [TS]

00:51:34   information as in like you said I expect [TS]

00:51:37   this thing to have feature accent [TS]

00:51:38   doesn't it's garbage and it totally has [TS]

00:51:40   feature excess person just hasn't found [TS]

00:51:41   it and you would love to be able to tell [TS]

00:51:43   them actually click on the block and [TS]

00:51:44   there's a thing and you know like but [TS]

00:51:46   you can't respond and you don't know the [TS]

00:51:48   person's email and there's no way you [TS]

00:51:50   can communicate that and your poor app [TS]

00:51:52   sits there with this everyone you know [TS]

00:51:54   everyone who loads up your app is going [TS]

00:51:55   to see that is like the most helpful [TS]

00:51:57   review and it is just the worst and most [TS]

00:52:00   developers are in this situation but for [TS]

00:52:02   the one that is this feature is like the [TS]

00:52:05   best thing ever because you know they [TS]

00:52:07   don't care how it affects the whole app [TS]

00:52:09   store they don't care if it you know if [TS]

00:52:11   it even gets them any more conversions [TS]

00:52:13   they just you know it's like the [TS]

00:52:14   principal I just can't stand this one [TS]

00:52:16   mistaken [TS]

00:52:17   review being sitting there sitting there [TS]

00:52:18   at the top right I guess they just [TS]

00:52:20   released a new version and erase it with [TS]

00:52:21   the whole there the whole thing about [TS]

00:52:23   how reviews and ratings are gonna last [TS]

00:52:25   across releases which by the way is not [TS]

00:52:27   part of this Apple has said they are [TS]

00:52:29   aware of that problem they don't have [TS]

00:52:30   anything to announce at this time but we [TS]

00:52:33   should be looking forward to something [TS]

00:52:34   happening there but in the meantime it [TS]

00:52:37   just feels so good i can imagine as a [TS]

00:52:39   developer to be able to finally respond [TS]

00:52:42   i think even if they're not notified it [TS]

00:52:44   just let you feel better to be like well [TS]

00:52:46   that person will never know because [TS]

00:52:48   they're long gone but anyone else who [TS]

00:52:49   stumbles across reviews at least i've [TS]

00:52:51   set the record straight whether or not [TS]

00:52:53   you really set it straight [TS]

00:52:54   whether you actually dig yourself in [TS]

00:52:55   deeper by being passive-aggressive in [TS]

00:52:57   your response and people look at think [TS]

00:52:58   of your app works like it's just human [TS]

00:53:00   nature to feel better about this and [TS]

00:53:03   practically speaking I think you have to [TS]

00:53:05   give developers that channel it's up to [TS]

00:53:07   them to do something useful with the [TS]

00:53:09   channel they could not use it at all or [TS]

00:53:11   they could you know be self-destructive [TS]

00:53:13   and do bad things with an argue with [TS]

00:53:15   their customers even though you only [TS]

00:53:16   have one reply i guess they get into [TS]

00:53:18   edit wars as the question and the answer [TS]

00:53:19   we added themselves over and over again [TS]

00:53:21   but not having the channel along at all [TS]

00:53:24   for like seven or eight years has just [TS]

00:53:26   felt terrible and so I think this is [TS]

00:53:28   it's a really important feature to have [TS]

00:53:30   the importance is far out of proportion [TS]

00:53:33   from the effect it will have on [TS]

00:53:36   anybody's business probably but just [TS]

00:53:38   like it was like why didn't you know you [TS]

00:53:40   had a system for commenting you had [TS]

00:53:42   everything in place we're not asking you [TS]

00:53:44   to expose their emails which is another [TS]

00:53:46   bone of contention of who owns the [TS]

00:53:47   customers apple still owns them right [TS]

00:53:49   but just give developers some way to [TS]

00:53:51   respond and it took so long it's finally [TS]

00:53:53   here so i think i think there's no way [TS]

00:53:55   this can't be a net positive for the app [TS]

00:53:58   store as a concept even if it's not a [TS]

00:54:00   net positive for any particular person [TS]

00:54:02   sales it will it will be in that [TS]

00:54:04   positive for for developers state of [TS]

00:54:06   mind [TS]

00:54:06   exactly i'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

00:54:08   how this shakes out and i don't know i'm [TS]

00:54:11   also curious to hear what you think of a [TS]

00:54:12   Marco after it's been a little while in [TS]

00:54:14   seeing if you hate her she's certain hot [TS]

00:54:17   well what do you think of it you're an [TS]

00:54:19   iOS developer what do you think I don't [TS]

00:54:22   know it's it's a little weird for my [TS]

00:54:24   situation because it's it were it's a [TS]

00:54:27   company it's not just me and seeing [TS]

00:54:30   seeing the feedback come to our email is [TS]

00:54:32   interesting and enlightening it does [TS]

00:54:35   tell me that a lot of the problems we [TS]

00:54:39   expect to see because we know that their [TS]

00:54:42   problems you know a lot of people cite [TS]

00:54:43   them as problems but there are certainly [TS]

00:54:46   times where people are like I don't [TS]

00:54:47   understand how to do blah [TS]

00:54:49   why can't I do blah and in that [TS]

00:54:51   situation it would be super convenient [TS]

00:54:53   to be able to in this these are all the [TS]

00:54:57   emails obviously we can reply but [TS]

00:54:58   hypothetically these reviews it would be [TS]

00:55:00   super convenient to be able to say oh if [TS]

00:55:02   you need to do with that thing you just [TS]

00:55:04   have here and then tap there and then [TS]

00:55:06   problem solved [TS]

00:55:07   and by the way it sounds like we need to [TS]

00:55:08   make this better in the future but in [TS]

00:55:12   that sense I I'm positive about it [TS]

00:55:14   i-i-i don't suspect that it's going to [TS]

00:55:17   be my personal job to be trolling the [TS]

00:55:20   reviews and in controlling i guess but [TS]

00:55:22   but we're getting through the dungeons [TS]

00:55:24   you know me right [TS]

00:55:25   weeding through the reviews to continue [TS]

00:55:27   to to respond when necessary but i agree [TS]

00:55:30   with with with both of you i think this [TS]

00:55:32   is a net-positive in and i'm curious to [TS]

00:55:34   see what happens in it and i'm also very [TS]

00:55:37   curious to see if after a while like a [TS]

00:55:41   few people start but people or companies [TS]

00:55:43   for that matter start replying to [TS]

00:55:45   reviews and we see how that goes and [TS]

00:55:48   that either convinces the rest of us to [TS]

00:55:51   dive in headfirst or if it convinces [TS]

00:55:54   someone in the chat trolling that is [TS]

00:55:56   what i was looking for terp tra WLA ng [TS]

00:55:59   sorry anyway [TS]

00:56:01   ICS oh it does does does Marco start [TS]

00:56:06   replying to reviews and he has a [TS]

00:56:08   terrible experience with it and so [TS]

00:56:10   underscore says oh I'm never touching [TS]

00:56:11   that or just Marco start replying to [TS]

00:56:14   reviews and it's a great experience and [TS]

00:56:17   suddenly underscores like heck yeah I [TS]

00:56:19   want in on that and then suddenly my [TS]

00:56:21   employers like heck yeah we want in on [TS]

00:56:22   that you know what I mean like I'm [TS]

00:56:23   curious to see what the not literal beta [TS]

00:56:27   testers the kind of effective beta [TS]

00:56:29   testers show us about the experience if [TS]

00:56:32   it's garbage or if it's great really [TS]

00:56:34   dependent [TS]

00:56:35   Sally that we all know people who [TS]

00:56:36   probably shouldn't respond to comments [TS]

00:56:39   that you can make it yourself you know [TS]

00:56:41   because you you have a free text box and [TS]

00:56:42   if you get there like in the wrong mood [TS]

00:56:44   you're angry like if you end up like [TS]

00:56:45   yelling at your customers it's not a net [TS]

00:56:47   win for you but I don't think someone [TS]

00:56:48   like David Smith is going to see someone [TS]

00:56:50   yelling at their customers I oh I better [TS]

00:56:52   stay away from reviews because surely [TS]

00:56:53   won't yell at customers like it customer [TS]

00:56:55   support and dealing with you know the [TS]

00:56:58   customer support issues is a skill and [TS]

00:57:00   you can have more or less of it [TS]

00:57:02   depending on where your skillset lies [TS]

00:57:04   and it is not a thing that you should [TS]

00:57:05   assume that you're able to do just [TS]

00:57:06   because you wrote the application so I [TS]

00:57:09   you know the channel has to be there but [TS]

00:57:11   for you know that is it's giving people [TS]

00:57:14   even though they only have one reply [TS]

00:57:16   that is more than enough rope for a lot [TS]

00:57:17   of people to hang themselves so now is [TS]

00:57:19   another skill set that these small shops [TS]

00:57:22   are independent developers who have to [TS]

00:57:24   be able to do a million things guess [TS]

00:57:25   what here's one more thing that do you [TS]

00:57:27   have to add to your skill set or find [TS]

00:57:28   some way to outsource and honestly and I [TS]

00:57:31   said I'm an under-the-radar to but we [TS]

00:57:33   can talk [TS]

00:57:34   let's go together this weekend to this [TS]

00:57:36   topic that we went into more of it but [TS]

00:57:38   this is a huge opportunity in the tools [TS]

00:57:40   space for some service or app to make it [TS]

00:57:45   easy for developers to receive new [TS]

00:57:47   reviews and replies them and track which [TS]

00:57:50   ones they have either replied 2 or [TS]

00:57:52   decided not to reply to across all the [TS]

00:57:54   different stores maybe with built-in [TS]

00:57:56   translate functionality of some sort [TS]

00:57:57   with a decent API that's the thing [TS]

00:58:00   please somebody make that and you can [TS]

00:58:02   sell that to a lot of iOS developers for [TS]

00:58:03   ongoing recurring subscription fee using [TS]

00:58:05   Apple's caffeine can be an open rest api [TS]

00:58:08   doesn't like always you're describing at [TS]

00:58:12   you know it may just because i just did [TS]

00:58:15   a podcast about this but all I could [TS]

00:58:16   think of was a how much better that game [TS]

00:58:19   I play that you guys make fun of all [TS]

00:58:20   time destiny does with this exact thing [TS]

00:58:23   destiny [TS]

00:58:24   the game has an extensive API that is [TS]

00:58:27   completely open to anybody who wants to [TS]

00:58:29   use it the that will they can give you [TS]

00:58:31   all the information about all your [TS]

00:58:32   characters and all your stats and let [TS]

00:58:33   you do things with it and there are you [TS]

00:58:36   know browser plug-ins websites iOS [TS]

00:58:40   applications everything you could [TS]

00:58:41   possibly imagine for messing with your [TS]

00:58:44   stuff and Destin why because it's an [TS]

00:58:45   open API and said here's an API to all [TS]

00:58:48   of our stuff and [TS]

00:58:49   simple you know authentication scheme or [TS]

00:58:51   you just authenticated the night is just [TS]

00:58:52   and the number of things that people [TS]

00:58:55   have made it just like the thing you [TS]

00:58:56   just described would there be hundreds [TS]

00:58:58   of those of the next day if this was [TS]

00:59:00   destiny that we were talking about i [TS]

00:59:02   don't know what the situation is for [TS]

00:59:03   apples interface to reviews but if it's [TS]

00:59:07   not as good as destiny the game maybe [TS]

00:59:09   they should hire people from bungie [TS]

00:59:10   because this is like making a decent API [TS]

00:59:14   that anybody can use like a simple [TS]

00:59:16   rest-based API that speaks json if you [TS]

00:59:19   place not the harley individual people [TS]

00:59:21   you know make these little chrome [TS]

00:59:23   plugins or web pages that do amazing [TS]

00:59:26   things and they do it all for free and [TS]

00:59:28   they do in their spare time and any one [TS]

00:59:30   of them you would love to have something [TS]

00:59:32   that's that good for what you described [TS]

00:59:34   for dealing with the reviews in the iOS [TS]

00:59:36   App Store but if applicable proprietary [TS]

00:59:38   and it's behind some weird thing then [TS]

00:59:40   it's going to be much harder to make and [TS]

00:59:42   there will be fewer of them and it will [TS]

00:59:43   be set [TS]

00:59:44   we're sponsor this week by betterment [TS]

00:59:47   investing made better to learn more [TS]

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01:00:43   of the betterment calm / ATP that's [TS]

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01:00:49   investing made better [TS]

01:00:51   ahh moving on I i hear rumor on the [TS]

01:00:57   streets that Marco is actually going to [TS]

01:01:01   in the new version of overcast and don't [TS]

01:01:03   tell him i squealed he's actually going [TS]

01:01:06   to change the icon for overcast should [TS]

01:01:10   be the show art of the actively playing [TS]

01:01:12   podcast since I've spilled the beans [TS]

01:01:15   mark I wanted to tell us more about this [TS]

01:01:16   so one of the features that has been [TS]

01:01:20   added in in iOS 10.3 beta is this [TS]

01:01:25   mechanism for seemingly setting [TS]

01:01:27   alternate app icons from encode the [TS]

01:01:31   implementation of this is a little [TS]

01:01:32   questionable Steve transmitted some [TS]

01:01:34   digging and apparently i don't believe [TS]

01:01:37   the pen doesn't actually work yet but [TS]

01:01:38   apparently there is evidence in the [TS]

01:01:41   frameworks and stuff that it prompts you [TS]

01:01:44   to confirm it like it prompts you to [TS]

01:01:46   confirm any change of icon before [TS]

01:01:48   actually applies it and so the question [TS]

01:01:51   is what is this for [TS]

01:01:54   and it is not for developers like me to [TS]

01:01:57   do things like for instance like I would [TS]

01:02:00   love to have to change the icon based on [TS]

01:02:04   you know whether whether it's night or [TS]

01:02:06   day and I could have like a dark mode at [TS]

01:02:08   night if I and I get an automatic mode [TS]

01:02:10   switching everything [TS]

01:02:11   and that's just not gonna be practical [TS]

01:02:13   if if that's what it is [TS]

01:02:15   there was a tweet from the fantastical [TS]

01:02:17   people that they would love to have [TS]

01:02:19   because you know it's it's an [TS]

01:02:20   alternative calendar app and just like [TS]

01:02:22   the Apple calendar app they'd love to [TS]

01:02:23   change your icon to be the day number [TS]

01:02:25   every day just like what apple's app [TS]

01:02:27   does it always shows the right date and [TS]

01:02:29   it's not gonna do that either just [TS]

01:02:31   prompt you every morning [TS]

01:02:32   yeah right your certification time to [TS]

01:02:35   update your icon come here and say okay [TS]

01:02:37   you can kind of understand why they do [TS]

01:02:39   it that way because it is akin security [TS]

01:02:41   concern because of Apple yeah it [TS]

01:02:42   programmatically change their icon and [TS]

01:02:44   you could totally be be fish by an [TS]

01:02:46   application that suddenly changes icon [TS]

01:02:48   to look like some some trusted [TS]

01:02:50   application and you don't notice that [TS]

01:02:51   you're not on the page you thought you [TS]

01:02:52   were on and you tap the icon it puts up [TS]

01:02:54   like a fishing string looks just like [TS]

01:02:55   the you know it like it is dangerous to [TS]

01:02:57   to allow applications to arbitrarily [TS]

01:03:00   change their icon without a prop so I [TS]

01:03:02   totally understand the prompt but you're [TS]

01:03:03   right that eliminates all sorts of use [TS]

01:03:05   cases and especially with the fishing [TS]

01:03:07   stuff this is kind of like so many other [TS]

01:03:09   app store things fantastic house should [TS]

01:03:11   be able to change its icon to be the [TS]

01:03:13   date right it should be able to do that [TS]

01:03:15   and it's like well but if we let them do [TS]

01:03:17   that then everyone can it's like do you [TS]

01:03:20   like there should be some earnable level [TS]

01:03:23   of trust within the system i just like [TS]

01:03:25   there is on stack overflow or whatever [TS]

01:03:27   and fantastical should have earned some [TS]

01:03:29   level of trust but this why don't know [TS]

01:03:31   how this mechanism work is very [TS]

01:03:33   difficult to do these types of system [TS]

01:03:34   just ask the people who runs that [TS]

01:03:35   overflow is it is a hard problem to [TS]

01:03:37   solve [TS]

01:03:38   but throwing up your hands and saying [TS]

01:03:40   well no well fantastical can't show the [TS]

01:03:42   data their icon that's not the right [TS]

01:03:44   solution either so I'm glad [TS]

01:03:46   whoever this feature is made for is [TS]

01:03:48   getting the features that they asked for [TS]

01:03:49   and I can think of reasonable use of it [TS]

01:03:52   in that context but it kind of annoys me [TS]

01:03:56   that the AP is already being made public [TS]

01:03:58   but in a way that so many use cases [TS]

01:04:02   can't be can't can't use it [TS]

01:04:05   yeah i mean again like you said it is a [TS]

01:04:07   tricky problem there's lots of problems [TS]

01:04:09   lots of potential abuses for this so it [TS]

01:04:12   does make sense why they would strictly [TS]

01:04:14   control it but honestly I'm kind of [TS]

01:04:18   surprised needs to be there at all [TS]

01:04:19   I honestly I'm very surprising to be [TS]

01:04:21   there at all and if it needs to be there [TS]

01:04:23   at all i think it [TS]

01:04:25   good it should be there in a way that's [TS]

01:04:27   more useful so for instance like when [TS]

01:04:29   maybe to avoid possible security issues [TS]

01:04:31   maybe the icon has to be part of your [TS]

01:04:34   apps bundle so you can generate a [TS]

01:04:35   dynamically and then maybe active you [TS]

01:04:37   checks all them just to make sure that [TS]

01:04:39   you know that you don't have like the [TS]

01:04:41   messages or Apple pay iconic you know [TS]

01:04:43   like that's that's a way they could do [TS]

01:04:45   it for everybody and that would make it [TS]

01:04:47   a lot more fun and fantastic i could [TS]

01:04:48   just ship 31 icons and have the actress [TS]

01:04:51   call them without a proper like that's [TS]

01:04:53   totally reasonable level even with those [TS]

01:04:55   things because it's good if because your [TS]

01:04:57   applications aren't supposed to even [TS]

01:04:58   start to get like you could they can [TS]

01:05:00   make an API like that but once you can [TS]

01:05:02   get pointers things you can fill in the [TS]

01:05:04   image data with a programmatically from [TS]

01:05:06   an obfuscated giant data array that you [TS]

01:05:08   hide in your stead like no you can't eat [TS]

01:05:10   if it was like if it was a set image [TS]

01:05:12   name to call and you had to pass it only [TS]

01:05:15   a name something in your bundle there's [TS]

01:05:17   no way to abuse that then people are [TS]

01:05:19   very sneaky [TS]

01:05:20   I mean what this it was the thing we saw [TS]

01:05:22   recently with that uh the piece of [TS]

01:05:24   malware in the app store doing some [TS]

01:05:27   weird things in common somewhere api's [TS]

01:05:29   with like some selective swing like that [TS]

01:05:31   bottle is really difficult to both human [TS]

01:05:35   and automatically determine whether an [TS]

01:05:36   application site its kind of the halting [TS]

01:05:38   problem though it doesn't mean that they [TS]

01:05:39   shouldn't do it because it's impossible [TS]

01:05:40   to do with a hundred percent accuracy [TS]

01:05:42   like you're right they don't get there [TS]

01:05:43   was discovered that I'm @ % case but I [TS]

01:05:45   think also and even perhaps more [TS]

01:05:47   reliably reputation of developers [TS]

01:05:51   earnable through some kind of system to [TS]

01:05:53   show that you are trustworthy and are [TS]

01:05:55   not are trying to scam people and even [TS]

01:05:56   that has problems because like what if [TS]

01:05:58   you're not trying to scam but someone [TS]

01:05:59   broke into your server and mess with [TS]

01:06:00   your application like there's always [TS]

01:06:02   going to be problems but at this point [TS]

01:06:05   in the life cycle of of the appstore [TS]

01:06:08   president of us a particularly for [TS]

01:06:11   things like calendars where the utility [TS]

01:06:14   of it is significant like I do look at [TS]

01:06:16   the calendar icon to see what data is on [TS]

01:06:18   my phone frequently that they have to [TS]

01:06:21   find a way to make it be there whether [TS]

01:06:23   it's the skin that you're describing [TS]

01:06:24   America where it's just a very limited [TS]

01:06:26   API or it is a trust-based system which [TS]

01:06:30   would have many other uses by the way [TS]

01:06:31   not just for this API could have uses [TS]

01:06:34   for review x + 4 [TS]

01:06:36   howdy Peru you do and stuff like that [TS]

01:06:38   that this is another one of those things [TS]

01:06:41   that should be there by now [TS]

01:06:43   me no matter what the fact that there's [TS]

01:06:45   an API even though it's super restricted [TS]

01:06:47   right now I mean that's apple style [TS]

01:06:49   right now I mean look at the Siri what [TS]

01:06:51   do they call him the the the different [TS]

01:06:53   groups of functionality there's a term [TS]

01:06:55   for I can't think of off the top of my [TS]

01:06:56   head but you know you can only use [TS]

01:06:57   Syrian certain contacts [TS]

01:06:59   well maybe this is one of those things [TS]

01:07:02   and maybe they'll open it up in the [TS]

01:07:05   future I mean I'm not terribly confident [TS]

01:07:07   about that but it could be you never [TS]

01:07:08   know but yeah however this came to be [TS]

01:07:10   whatever this is about that i mean i [TS]

01:07:13   guess [TS]

01:07:15   cool maybe you will see what happens but [TS]

01:07:17   i suspect just like market was saying [TS]

01:07:19   this is going to amount to a whole lot [TS]

01:07:20   of nothing for most people [TS]

01:07:22   yeah i'm moving on Steve Trevor Smith [TS]

01:07:24   who was i guess at this point an [TS]

01:07:26   honorary member of the show since he's [TS]

01:07:28   given most of the topics for tonight [TS]

01:07:30   just by tweeting all this stuff he is [TS]

01:07:33   also found a floating detached keyboard [TS]

01:07:37   now this is different than the thing I [TS]

01:07:39   don't even know if it's still a thing [TS]

01:07:40   but then the thing that at least used to [TS]

01:07:42   be the case where you could slide the [TS]

01:07:43   keyboard up the screen on an ipad would [TS]

01:07:45   split into so there would be like a half [TS]

01:07:47   on either side of the screen and I think [TS]

01:07:49   the intention there was so you could [TS]

01:07:51   touch type with your thumbs LOL gripping [TS]

01:07:53   the screen this is not the same thing is [TS]

01:07:55   that because that split into this is an [TS]

01:07:58   entire like iphone shaped and sized [TS]

01:08:01   keyboard that you can use [TS]

01:08:04   single-handedly on a 9.7 inch iPad which [TS]

01:08:09   seems really peculiar and stupid to me [TS]

01:08:13   at first and then I got thinking about [TS]

01:08:14   it I was like you know that actually [TS]

01:08:16   might make something about a sense this [TS]

01:08:18   might be kind of cool [TS]

01:08:19   so there is a way because if there is a [TS]

01:08:25   situation where I'm holding an ipad [TS]

01:08:27   one-handed which admittedly I can't [TS]

01:08:29   imagine it would be terribly often but [TS]

01:08:30   if I or maybe if I the ipad prompt and I [TS]

01:08:34   wanted to use only one hand to type [TS]

01:08:36   having all those keys right next to each [TS]

01:08:38   other can see that being kind of cool i [TS]

01:08:40   mean it's all pie political right [TS]

01:08:41   because i haven't tried this myself but [TS]

01:08:43   it might be neat [TS]

01:08:44   I'm not writing this off immediately is [TS]

01:08:46   garbage it might also be garbage i don't [TS]

01:08:48   know it sounds like you don't you're not [TS]

01:08:49   too impressed Marco we would have to see [TS]

01:08:52   like how Apple tells the story of this [TS]

01:08:54   feature like what is the intent of it [TS]

01:08:56   assume you know if it gets released [TS]

01:08:58   that's a big if but if you release that [TS]

01:09:00   I would be very curious to know what [TS]

01:09:03   Apple thinks of this feature what they [TS]

01:09:05   expected to be used for because as it [TS]

01:09:08   like you as he showing it in the [TS]

01:09:10   screenshots I can't think of a good use [TS]

01:09:12   for this like I think it would be very [TS]

01:09:14   very hard to type on actual i'm actually [TS]

01:09:18   ipad hardware no matter where you put it [TS]

01:09:19   on the screen i think i'd be very very [TS]

01:09:21   hard to type on the whole reason that [TS]

01:09:23   keyboard works is because you are [TS]

01:09:26   holding a device that is roughly the [TS]

01:09:27   size of your hand using one or two [TS]

01:09:29   thumbs on it the way you hold my pad is [TS]

01:09:32   totally different way your fingers reach [TS]

01:09:34   things on the ipad is totally different [TS]

01:09:36   it i don't see how this would work [TS]

01:09:38   honestly but at this point I OS is so [TS]

01:09:42   big there's so much there they that they [TS]

01:09:45   can add features like this that only [TS]

01:09:47   like two people ever want to use or like [TS]

01:09:49   the apt changing the app icon changing [TS]

01:09:51   API that they headed that like you know [TS]

01:09:54   how many apps are ever going to be able [TS]

01:09:56   to use that in a constructive way [TS]

01:09:58   05 you know that there's lots of api's [TS]

01:10:01   now like various extension points that [TS]

01:10:04   exist that are almost never used by [TS]

01:10:06   anybody but like one type of app uses it [TS]

01:10:08   and that's enough that you mentioned the [TS]

01:10:10   Serie kit stuff like being able to order [TS]

01:10:13   certain things through Syria query [TS]

01:10:15   certain things to Syria where like [TS]

01:10:17   that's really only ever going to be used [TS]

01:10:18   by like 021 apps that are on somebody's [TS]

01:10:21   phone but it's worth it to have it [TS]

01:10:23   because those might be enough people to [TS]

01:10:25   matter with iOS being so big [TS]

01:10:27   something like this like you know I i [TS]

01:10:30   would argue on the ipad they should [TS]

01:10:31   probably spend their time doing more [TS]

01:10:33   important things that affect more people [TS]

01:10:34   on the ipad that could have a bigger [TS]

01:10:36   return but you know someone's gonna use [TS]

01:10:38   it and so I guess if it wasn't too much [TS]

01:10:40   work it's probably fine but I hesitate [TS]

01:10:43   to see her I I struggle to see the use [TS]

01:10:45   of this myself think there was a tweet [TS]

01:10:48   saying this is actually this code has [TS]

01:10:49   been in there since the beginning I was [TS]

01:10:51   ten like it's not a 10.3 feature and and [TS]

01:10:53   again did to be cleared everybody this [TS]

01:10:55   is not something that's in a 10.3 beta [TS]

01:10:57   this is a hidden thing like the code is [TS]

01:10:59   therefore it but it's not exposed to [TS]

01:11:00   just like going through headers and [TS]

01:11:01   finding thanks to call the most [TS]

01:11:05   important thing to me looking at this [TS]

01:11:07   potential feature that may or may not [TS]

01:11:10   ever ship orb be revealed in any way is [TS]

01:11:15   that it is i guess the second maybe I'm [TS]

01:11:18   missing some things iteration of [TS]

01:11:20   bringing essentially windows to iOS it [TS]

01:11:25   is a floating square on the screen that [TS]

01:11:29   is not you know it's not the screen [TS]

01:11:31   divided in half or in thirds or slide [TS]

01:11:33   our panel slides up from the side or [TS]

01:11:35   whatever it is its own independent [TS]

01:11:37   floating square that presumably you can [TS]

01:11:38   put wherever you want [TS]

01:11:40   I that's called the window doesn't have [TS]

01:11:43   title bar on it it's not a window in the [TS]

01:11:45   mac sense but it's definitely a window [TS]

01:11:47   picture-in-picture also window you can [TS]

01:11:49   kind of move that thing around on the [TS]

01:11:50   screen without not equally freeform same [TS]

01:11:52   thing with our little friend the [TS]

01:11:53   assistive touch button nothing that you [TS]

01:11:56   can put anywhere on the screen [TS]

01:11:57   it's like iOS was first everything feels [TS]

01:12:00   the screen and then second screen starts [TS]

01:12:02   getting subdivided into pieces for [TS]

01:12:04   multitasking and thirds in half and [TS]

01:12:06   stuff like that and then finally a bunch [TS]

01:12:09   of little guys come and plop on top on [TS]

01:12:11   this one big floating layer on top of [TS]

01:12:12   everything [TS]

01:12:13   keyboards picture-in-picture is such [TS]

01:12:15   stuff like it is a step in the direction [TS]

01:12:18   away from the absolute extreme [TS]

01:12:23   simplicity that iOS was born and towards [TS]

01:12:25   a tiny tote dip into the world of the [TS]

01:12:28   mac where you can have more than one [TS]

01:12:32   thing on the screen at the same time in [TS]

01:12:34   an arrangement of your choosing and you [TS]

01:12:36   can move stuff around depending on and [TS]

01:12:39   where you what you want to see and this [TS]

01:12:41   tiny little keyboard is weird little [TS]

01:12:42   iphone floating keyboard whatever thing [TS]

01:12:45   is it interesting made not just because [TS]

01:12:48   the window but also because it [TS]

01:12:49   reinforces the idea and I feel this even [TS]

01:12:52   on my iPad that sometimes when that [TS]

01:12:55   keyboard slides up it's taking a larger [TS]

01:12:59   portion of the screen then you think is [TS]

01:13:02   appropriate for keyboard at this time [TS]

01:13:04   like oh man my big ipad screen now huge [TS]

01:13:07   portion has taken up with this big [TS]

01:13:08   hogging keyboard if you put [TS]

01:13:11   regular tasks you don't you don't need [TS]

01:13:13   like that whole bottom third of the [TS]

01:13:14   screen to be taken up with the keyboard [TS]

01:13:15   just to have a little floating thing you [TS]

01:13:17   can put anywhere maybe you don't want [TS]

01:13:19   covering the bottom maybe want covering [TS]

01:13:20   the left at the top of the side or maybe [TS]

01:13:21   you want to your thumb or whatever the [TS]

01:13:23   same reason people like this is a touch [TS]

01:13:25   but even though they're chasing that [TS]

01:13:26   little puck around the screen moving it [TS]

01:13:27   out of the way so it doesn't obscure [TS]

01:13:28   stuff apparently people get used to that [TS]

01:13:31   and like that's just part of me using my [TS]

01:13:33   phone is occasionally have to move the [TS]

01:13:34   little thing out of the way but it's [TS]

01:13:36   still preferable [TS]

01:13:37   well here I think you're trading a very [TS]

01:13:39   large keyboard take up you know not just [TS]

01:13:42   obscuring a large portion screen but [TS]

01:13:43   often they have to change their view [TS]

01:13:45   hierarchy and view structure to [TS]

01:13:46   accommodate for the very large keyboard [TS]

01:13:48   when it comes up to say no application [TS]

01:13:50   you don't have to change the layout at [TS]

01:13:51   all let the user deal with that the user [TS]

01:13:53   will be the janitor and I'll Steve Jobs [TS]

01:13:55   parlons and they'll just move the little [TS]

01:13:57   tiny keyboard around where they wanna [TS]

01:13:59   move it now like like both of you said [TS]

01:14:02   haven't used this it does not [TS]

01:14:04   immediately appear to be to me to be any [TS]

01:14:07   sort of win and I kind of agree with the [TS]

01:14:09   fact of not being exposed right now and [TS]

01:14:11   i would like to have to see what kind of [TS]

01:14:13   story they explain this but like the [TS]

01:14:15   split keyboard that I think Casey [TS]

01:14:17   mentioned before where you take the the [TS]

01:14:19   existing I always keyboard and split and [TS]

01:14:21   i'm pretty sure that future still exists [TS]

01:14:22   because i've used it recently recently [TS]

01:14:24   ish like in the last year they announced [TS]

01:14:27   that feature they showed it people who [TS]

01:14:29   had an odd and i think most people who [TS]

01:14:32   don't use it just forgot about it but [TS]

01:14:33   it's still there doesn't do anybody harm [TS]

01:14:35   if you don't ever use it and you don't [TS]

01:14:37   ever accidentally trigger it [TS]

01:14:38   it's fine so this could be in that [TS]

01:14:41   category of things but i want to [TS]

01:14:43   encourage Apple to continue to explore [TS]

01:14:45   this radical idea we call windows with [TS]

01:14:47   the lowercase W haha oh my goodness yeah [TS]

01:14:53   we'll see what happens it's it's [TS]

01:14:54   fascinating to me that that Apple is [TS]

01:14:58   shipping this code dark not surprising [TS]

01:15:01   necessarily but just interesting but [TS]

01:15:03   what's really super interesting is that [TS]

01:15:05   stratton's Smith is finding all the [TS]

01:15:07   stuff like just the stuff that he can [TS]

01:15:08   dig up it is tremendous and and I don't [TS]

01:15:12   even know where to begin to do some of [TS]

01:15:14   the stuff that he's able to do and I'm [TS]

01:15:16   deeply impressed by it and i love that [TS]

01:15:17   he sharing it with the world even to the [TS]

01:15:19   point of making a sample project that's [TS]

01:15:22   on github and we have a [TS]

01:15:23   link to it in the show notes are linked [TS]

01:15:24   to tweet of his any way to exercise the [TS]

01:15:28   icon thing like to such cool stuff and [TS]

01:15:30   mana i wish i was smart like him but [TS]

01:15:34   anyway yeah we'll see what happens with [TS]

01:15:36   this floating keyboard thing i do think [TS]

01:15:38   that your your point about the windowing [TS]

01:15:41   is interesting John especially because [TS]

01:15:43   if i recall correctly you can actually [TS]

01:15:44   resize the picture picture window if you [TS]

01:15:47   like pinch it [TS]

01:15:48   I think there are some limits but I [TS]

01:15:49   think you can you can enlarge and shrink [TS]

01:15:51   it and I've also noticed that you can [TS]

01:15:53   kind of flick it off to the side so [TS]

01:15:55   there's just like a little like handle [TS]

01:15:58   or like nothing that pokes out off the [TS]

01:16:00   side of the screen so if you wanted to [TS]

01:16:01   like shimmy it off to the side just for [TS]

01:16:03   a moment to look at something and then [TS]

01:16:05   bring it back you can do that so there [TS]

01:16:07   is some amount of window management [TS]

01:16:08   that's going on in iOS today and it [TS]

01:16:11   seems like more and more is coming which [TS]

01:16:12   is really really interesting and [TS]

01:16:14   picture-in-picture like it shows apples [TS]

01:16:17   willingness to ship features in iOS in [TS]

01:16:20   which it's up to you to deal with that [TS]

01:16:21   little window like the whole point is [TS]

01:16:23   you don't have to have the app in the [TS]

01:16:25   front you can go do other things and we [TS]

01:16:27   don't even mess with your multitasking [TS]

01:16:28   won't even take up one of the [TS]

01:16:29   multitasking slots or whatever it's just [TS]

01:16:31   this little window and maybe it's [TS]

01:16:32   blocking stuff it's up to you to move it [TS]

01:16:34   out of the way if it's covering [TS]

01:16:36   something you don't want moving to [TS]

01:16:37   different places you just want to get [TS]

01:16:38   rid of it like it is pushing that [TS]

01:16:40   management decided that you know we're [TS]

01:16:42   like I don't care that it covers part of [TS]

01:16:44   screen and if it's covering something [TS]

01:16:45   knowing you move it and in practice i [TS]

01:16:47   found with picture-in-picture it's [TS]

01:16:48   usually not that hard to find someplace [TS]

01:16:50   on the screen where you can put it where [TS]

01:16:52   it's not bothering you and you know [TS]

01:16:53   where that is because you know the apps [TS]

01:16:54   that you're using that's you know that's [TS]

01:16:56   the curse and the power of windows as we [TS]

01:16:58   all know on you know typical personal [TS]

01:17:00   computers is you can put them wherever [TS]

01:17:02   you want and you can arrange in a way to [TS]

01:17:04   make sense to you and it's so much more [TS]

01:17:05   limited is like you have very few of [TS]

01:17:07   these little things and that the where [TS]

01:17:09   you can put them and how big they can be [TS]

01:17:10   and how you know Clayton was incredibly [TS]

01:17:11   limited but i think you know coming from [TS]

01:17:14   a world where the entire phone was one [TS]

01:17:16   application all the time that incredible [TS]

01:17:17   simplicity and moving to a world with no [TS]

01:17:20   ipad pro you know large type devices [TS]

01:17:23   with a pen and all the stuff you have to [TS]

01:17:25   start giving people the ability to do [TS]

01:17:27   this otherwise you're not leveraging the [TS]

01:17:29   power [TS]

01:17:29   of the larger screen and multitasking [TS]

01:17:32   and all that other stuff [TS]

01:17:33   yeah you know I love picture-in-picture [TS]

01:17:34   on my iPad and i love it so much [TS]

01:17:36   even on Mac OS that i found i remember [TS]

01:17:40   who introduced us to me but and forgive [TS]

01:17:42   me if I mentioned on the show before but [TS]

01:17:44   there's a safari extension called Pied [TS]

01:17:46   Piper but it's pied p.i.p or get it [TS]

01:17:51   anyway it's a party extension that will [TS]

01:17:53   allow you to easily do [TS]

01:17:55   picture-in-picture on like YouTube and I [TS]

01:17:57   think vimeo and a couple other places [TS]

01:17:59   and plaques for the flex web front-end [TS]

01:18:02   yes I am aware that you can do something [TS]

01:18:05   like right click right click again dance [TS]

01:18:08   on youtube in order to get it to support [TS]

01:18:11   picture in picture but this just puts a [TS]

01:18:13   little a little button right on the [TS]

01:18:15   video that lets you kick it over to a [TS]

01:18:17   picture-in-picture and i find that super [TS]

01:18:18   convenient particularly because although [TS]

01:18:21   i don't believe in having a gazillion [TS]

01:18:23   safari tabs like you do John i do [TS]

01:18:26   believe in having about eleventy billion [TS]

01:18:28   spaces or virtual desktops and so having [TS]

01:18:31   picture-in-picture can let this hover [TS]

01:18:33   across several different spaces which is [TS]

01:18:35   really nice so i'll put a link to that [TS]

01:18:37   in the show notes anything else on iOS [TS]

01:18:40   10.3 and briefly mentioned they [TS]

01:18:42   reviewing interface thing that markets [TS]

01:18:44   are you talking about an under-the-radar [TS]

01:18:45   but that was a tissue we talked about in [TS]

01:18:48   past ATP's I think with applications [TS]

01:18:51   asking you to rate them and obviously [TS]

01:18:54   more often than you would like and we [TS]

01:18:56   were discussing you know all maybe you [TS]

01:18:58   could report them that they're doing [TS]

01:18:59   that or application shouldn't be doing [TS]

01:19:01   that but then how do you enforce the [TS]

01:19:02   guidelines Apple solution to this seems [TS]

01:19:04   to be making official api for asking [TS]

01:19:07   that and put limits on the official API [TS]

01:19:09   and eventually some point in the future [TS]

01:19:11   force everyone to use the API so this [TS]

01:19:13   sounds i endorse this plan this sounds [TS]

01:19:15   like a good plan i look forward to them [TS]

01:19:17   rolling it out I like that they're doing [TS]

01:19:19   it reasonably cautiously not just one [TS]

01:19:21   day saying hey guess what if you're a [TS]

01:19:22   pass for reviews in any way except the [TS]

01:19:24   eventual API you will get rejected [TS]

01:19:25   they're not doing that but the API is it [TS]

01:19:28   the limits are are saying like three [TS]

01:19:31   times per year you can ask and with with [TS]

01:19:34   a global switch that says I never want [TS]

01:19:36   to be asked to write an application i'm [TS]

01:19:38   going to use that global switch because [TS]

01:19:40   i do never want [TS]

01:19:41   BS many applications that i use and like [TS]

01:19:43   frequently asked me to write them and [TS]

01:19:46   have obnoxious choices at the bottom of [TS]

01:19:47   the dialog boxes none of which my [TS]

01:19:50   brainstem nothing in my brain doesn't [TS]

01:19:52   know which one to pick so i have to read [TS]

01:19:53   words and be like it's like he may be [TS]

01:19:58   later [TS]

01:20:00   no like I just go away box i don't want [TS]

01:20:03   to see you so I endorse this API I wish [TS]

01:20:08   it would come sooner in fact i wish they [TS]

01:20:10   would you know make it even more [TS]

01:20:12   draconian now and the nice thing is [TS]

01:20:13   everything about heard about this is [TS]

01:20:15   like yes this these are these are [TS]

01:20:17   reasonable choices like what about the [TS]

01:20:18   applications like Marcos that never [TS]

01:20:20   prompt you but just have a little [TS]

01:20:21   section in the preferences that say if [TS]

01:20:23   you want to read it [TS]

01:20:24   are they okay answer yes you're totally [TS]

01:20:26   allowed to do that because that's not a [TS]

01:20:28   thing that pops up in your face if [TS]

01:20:29   you're scrolling through the settings [TS]

01:20:30   and you see the thing those applications [TS]

01:20:32   don't have to be removed from the store [TS]

01:20:34   or change the thing and if Marco wants [TS]

01:20:36   to make it so when you tap that thing [TS]

01:20:37   that popped up an inline thing to review [TS]

01:20:39   the app can he use the new API yes you [TS]

01:20:41   can see it's not that hard like it was [TS]

01:20:44   something like every every API that [TS]

01:20:45   Apple every sort of App Store rule or [TS]

01:20:47   API the introduce their being a bunch of [TS]

01:20:49   obvious problems that we all want about [TS]

01:20:51   right [TS]

01:20:52   no obvious problems this one there maybe [TS]

01:20:54   not obvious problems but like it is just [TS]

01:20:56   a great feeling to get an outside of the [TS]

01:20:58   app store and go they made up for all [TS]

01:21:01   the big choices they made reasonable [TS]

01:21:03   ones yeah yeah i mean this is like again [TS]

01:21:06   we we did spend about half under the [TS]

01:21:08   radar this we talking about this subtree [TS]

01:21:10   put that in the show notes plug plug [TS]

01:21:11   however this is one of this is like [TS]

01:21:14   quintessential good Apple this is like [TS]

01:21:16   seeing a problem that is that causes a [TS]

01:21:19   poor user experience but that that for [TS]

01:21:22   some reason that they exist for good [TS]

01:21:24   reason [TS]

01:21:25   so like these app review these rate my [TS]

01:21:27   appt dialogues exist for good reason [TS]

01:21:29   because they work and because as I [TS]

01:21:31   mentioned earlier star ratings in the [TS]

01:21:33   appstore tend to matter and so when you [TS]

01:21:36   can have a way for most apps to get a [TS]

01:21:38   lot more star ratings that will [TS]

01:21:41   definitely increase their downloads and [TS]

01:21:43   sales in a way that most people don't [TS]

01:21:46   love but most of them also just don't [TS]

01:21:49   care that much about it that's going to [TS]

01:21:52   happen that's going to be inevitable so [TS]

01:21:54   Apple has a [TS]

01:21:54   dress the need for them with this API to [TS]

01:21:57   say okay we understand that you need to [TS]

01:21:59   prompt users for that you think you need [TS]

01:22:02   it [TS]

01:22:03   there needs to be a way to prompt users [TS]

01:22:04   to review your app however they take [TS]

01:22:08   control away from the developer of of [TS]

01:22:10   whether that's allowed to happen or not [TS]

01:22:12   the developer still says when it should [TS]

01:22:15   happen but they don't know whether it [TS]

01:22:17   will succeed or not and then combined [TS]

01:22:21   with the policy change that will be [TS]

01:22:23   coming down the road at some unspecified [TS]

01:22:25   time that says you won't be allowed to [TS]

01:22:28   ask for reviews any other way that [TS]

01:22:30   combination will be awesome [TS]

01:22:32   the only problem I see with this which [TS]

01:22:33   again we talked about this [TS]

01:22:34   under-the-radar please listen to that [TS]

01:22:35   also the only promise you with this is [TS]

01:22:37   enforcement because i think it's going [TS]

01:22:39   to be similar to the rules that they [TS]

01:22:41   have against spam push notifications or [TS]

01:22:44   push notifications are used for quote [TS]

01:22:46   marketing or promotional purposes i [TS]

01:22:48   think every single app that uses push [TS]

01:22:50   notifications with very very few [TS]

01:22:53   exceptions including like the App Store [TS]

01:22:56   app has been used for promotional [TS]

01:22:59   purposes like apps abuse this all the [TS]

01:23:01   time Apple themselves abuse this [TS]

01:23:03   sometimes and you know games are the [TS]

01:23:07   worst big content apps are the worst big [TS]

01:23:10   company apps the worst like tons of apps [TS]

01:23:13   span notify people for things like hey [TS]

01:23:15   bombs are now on sale for a limited time [TS]

01:23:18   come check out the newest content like [TS]

01:23:20   crap like that that is explicitly [TS]

01:23:21   prohibited in the app review rules but [TS]

01:23:24   that has never been enforced in any kind [TS]

01:23:26   of scale because it's kind of hard to [TS]

01:23:28   enforce that when you're reviewing apps [TS]

01:23:30   for like three minutes at a time as long [TS]

01:23:34   as you don't see the problem come up [TS]

01:23:35   during those three minutes during a [TS]

01:23:37   preview [TS]

01:23:38   it's gonna be really hard to enforce [TS]

01:23:39   unless as we discussed a couple times [TS]

01:23:41   way back like maybe they could have some [TS]

01:23:43   kind of like report a problem button but [TS]

01:23:45   like is Apple really going to clutter up [TS]

01:23:47   their UI of like every notification or [TS]

01:23:50   something like that or every app icon or [TS]

01:23:52   every app in the store with like a [TS]

01:23:54   report violation button we probably not [TS]

01:23:57   and so so that the problem that this [TS]

01:24:00   review policy and review change will [TS]

01:24:03   have is like if they can't really [TS]

01:24:05   consistently in force [TS]

01:24:07   that you are allowed to do it the old [TS]

01:24:09   way anymore then all the big absurd [TS]

01:24:12   data-driven like Twitter and so thirds [TS]

01:24:14   gonna keep doing the old way and [TS]

01:24:15   nothing's gonna really like but it's [TS]

01:24:17   only going to hurt like the good people [TS]

01:24:19   who are trying to think the right way I [TS]

01:24:21   think you only need a small number of [TS]

01:24:22   people reported like this is not a type [TS]

01:24:24   of thing we need like everybody even [TS]

01:24:25   know the reporting interface is this all [TS]

01:24:27   you need is five nerds five nerds to [TS]

01:24:29   know where that important right because [TS]

01:24:32   all you need to do is alert Apple oh hey [TS]

01:24:35   maybe check this out about maybe doing [TS]

01:24:37   this thing and I'm like push [TS]

01:24:39   notifications [TS]

01:24:40   it's not like this is a data-driven [TS]

01:24:41   thing where like the the Avenue is there [TS]

01:24:43   and the Avenue is legal is just the [TS]

01:24:45   content that's bad [TS]

01:24:46   this is the place where the Avenue is [TS]

01:24:48   not allowed you are not allowed to pop [TS]

01:24:50   up a dialog box that says anything about [TS]

01:24:51   ratings and leads people to ratings like [TS]

01:24:53   without using the official API right so [TS]

01:24:55   you don't have to be like about you your [TS]

01:24:57   body's push notifications just the [TS]

01:24:59   things that you push notification [TS]

01:25:00   shouldn't be adding like totally will [TS]

01:25:02   never push ads right that's not a [TS]

01:25:03   reviewable thing whereas popping up a [TS]

01:25:06   dialogue I mean obviously you can be [TS]

01:25:08   sneaky and sail the content of the [TS]

01:25:09   dialogue is pulled from the web and [TS]

01:25:11   you'll never know what it is right you [TS]

01:25:12   know people can work around it but if [TS]

01:25:15   you just let us go out into the wild and [TS]

01:25:16   nerds know where the boxes that tells [TS]

01:25:19   them the applications a problem then [TS]

01:25:20   that will you know and then they sort [TS]

01:25:23   them by volume and they just say every [TS]

01:25:25   week go through the ones that people are [TS]

01:25:26   complaining about and see if it's yes [TS]

01:25:28   it's true look I you know I spent more [TS]

01:25:30   than three minutes with this application [TS]

01:25:31   and guess what it does prompt you for [TS]

01:25:33   ratings and bring the banhammer right [TS]

01:25:35   it's you know it's like all these [TS]

01:25:38   enforcement problems like just because [TS]

01:25:40   you can't do it a hundred percent [TS]

01:25:41   doesn't mean you shouldn't try it all [TS]

01:25:42   day and they need to get better at about [TS]

01:25:44   this in general some kind of feedback [TS]

01:25:45   mechanism for um and honestly I think [TS]

01:25:48   applications will be motivated to use it [TS]

01:25:50   like because this the API another good [TS]

01:25:52   things API does is it improves the [TS]

01:25:54   application you don't have to send [TS]

01:25:56   people elsewhere to write review anymore [TS]

01:25:57   they can stay in your app developers [TS]

01:25:59   have wanted that for a long time and now [TS]

01:26:01   you get it so there is incentive there's [TS]

01:26:03   a carrot as well as a stick for [TS]

01:26:05   everybody to use API no I'm i was happy [TS]

01:26:08   with this announcement and and honestly [TS]

01:26:10   like I hate read this app dialog boxes [TS]

01:26:13   but the implementation of this is so [TS]

01:26:15   good that I think I would leave it on [TS]

01:26:17   and i think i'd be totally okay with [TS]

01:26:20   apps I use on a regular [TS]

01:26:21   this is showing this easy little box [TS]

01:26:23   like once and then i can just say yeah [TS]

01:26:26   okay [TS]

01:26:26   4 stars five stars ever done and that's [TS]

01:26:29   it like I would I never leave ratings [TS]

01:26:32   for anything because I don't want to go [TS]

01:26:34   through the hassle and never think about [TS]

01:26:35   it i should because you know usually [TS]

01:26:37   people access to grind everything still [TS]

01:26:39   like if you like things you should leave [TS]

01:26:41   ratings for them but i just i almost [TS]

01:26:43   never do I i have very few reviews on my [TS]

01:26:45   account because I don't think about it [TS]

01:26:48   this makes it a lot easier to do it so [TS]

01:26:50   as a customer i think and as somebody [TS]

01:26:52   who wants to support good apps i [TS]

01:26:54   actually believe this on it is a really [TS]

01:26:56   nice implementation of your reviews that [TS]

01:26:59   you just over uva reminded me to shame [TS]

01:27:02   me into the same thing like I think when [TS]

01:27:04   do I leave star reviews and why don't I [TS]

01:27:06   and you got both the reasons i almost [TS]

01:27:08   never do and I don't because who wants [TS]

01:27:09   to leave the application there in to go [TS]

01:27:11   do something but if it was in the [TS]

01:27:12   dialogue and I get just the number of [TS]

01:27:14   stars i would do that and I should and [TS]

01:27:17   thinking of that river and obviously [TS]

01:27:18   don't have any apple store to think [TS]

01:27:20   about you but i do have podcasts in the [TS]

01:27:21   itunes store and those get reviews and [TS]

01:27:24   not going to say they are tire fire [TS]

01:27:28   because they're not they're good reviews [TS]

01:27:30   you know we have good reviews for this [TS]

01:27:32   podcast and for our podcasts and I'm on [TS]

01:27:34   but as shows age what I have found is in [TS]

01:27:38   new reviews that come in more slowly and [TS]

01:27:41   the reviews become increasingly negative [TS]

01:27:44   because eventually everyone who had [TS]

01:27:45   anything nice about the show has already [TS]

01:27:47   said what they have to say which is fine [TS]

01:27:49   economy and reviews can you add for [TS]

01:27:51   leave for a show but if in the middle of [TS]

01:27:53   this podcast a you know a magic auditory [TS]

01:27:57   dialog box will pop up and people could [TS]

01:27:59   auditorily you know or with mental [TS]

01:28:01   powers press like right this is the [TS]

01:28:03   analogy is falling apart anyway it was [TS]

01:28:05   really easy to write podcast i think [TS]

01:28:07   more people would read it and I think it [TS]

01:28:08   would make the ratings nicer but it's [TS]

01:28:12   not easy to a podcast and therefore [TS]

01:28:13   nobody does it and i have to say i don't [TS]

01:28:14   write the podcast i listen to either [TS]

01:28:16   common so the only people who are [TS]

01:28:18   motivated to rate podcasts are when the [TS]

01:28:21   show new launches and people are [TS]

01:28:22   enthusiastic and then later when people [TS]

01:28:24   are angry and so now we have left of the [TS]

01:28:26   angry people reading the podcast which [TS]

01:28:27   is fine like I don't even know how [TS]

01:28:29   reviews are our podcast stars have any [TS]

01:28:32   effect on already [TS]

01:28:32   at all either but I mean it's also [TS]

01:28:36   possible that you might be using a [TS]

01:28:37   podcast app his creator is very [TS]

01:28:39   vehemently against the idea of podcast [TS]

01:28:41   reviews but never implement such a [TS]

01:28:42   feature or other podcast things have it [TS]

01:28:46   well it's not a lot of other pockets [TS]

01:28:48   have their own directories those that do [TS]

01:28:50   I don't know that neither have any kind [TS]

01:28:51   of review system but that's probably for [TS]

01:28:53   good reason because you're few systems [TS]

01:28:55   for podcasts are terrible idea but [TS]

01:28:57   there's no api like to to do I terms of [TS]

01:28:59   use basically to give a starting to ice [TS]

01:29:01   not know i really doubt it i mean you [TS]

01:29:03   might be able to hack it through some [TS]

01:29:05   kind of undocumented weird thing but i [TS]

01:29:07   really doubt that would be a massive [TS]

01:29:09   potential for abuse so I don't think [TS]

01:29:11   they would want to expose that any real [TS]

01:29:12   way you could you can read reviews [TS]

01:29:15   through an API that's I think also [TS]

01:29:17   undocumented I don't do that either i [TS]

01:29:20   don't care i don't want to show the [TS]

01:29:23   content of reviews the readings from [TS]

01:29:25   reviews I i think in the context of [TS]

01:29:28   podcasts and podcasts urchin podcast [TS]

01:29:31   discovery the star rating system is [TS]

01:29:35   incredibly dysfunctional and and [TS]

01:29:37   therefore I'd I just do not want it and [TS]

01:29:40   I don't want overcast to show any part [TS]

01:29:42   of it ever i have a recommendation [TS]

01:29:43   system which is a simple like thumbs-up [TS]

01:29:45   that's it like it's a it's a boolean [TS]

01:29:47   like you like this that's it there's no [TS]

01:29:49   dislike there's no stars there's no [TS]

01:29:51   commentary there's many problems those [TS]

01:29:54   systems simple thumbs up easy now the [TS]

01:29:58   recommendation system and overcast works [TS]

01:29:59   really well like there was a Christmas [TS]

01:30:01   dinner she don't know someone another [TS]

01:30:03   podcast to talk about sup and I was like [TS]

01:30:06   I want to get that podcast too so i [TS]

01:30:08   launched overcast and I went to the [TS]

01:30:09   screen where you like I was gonna like [TS]

01:30:10   search for the show name or whatever but [TS]

01:30:12   it didn't have to because it was already [TS]

01:30:13   like the very top of the like most [TS]

01:30:15   recommended thing he was right there [TS]

01:30:17   like it with the icon and I recognize [TS]

01:30:18   that because the iconic had seen on [TS]

01:30:20   Twitter like oh that must be it Boop [TS]

01:30:22   done didn't even need to type anything [TS]

01:30:24   into the search box and that's just from [TS]

01:30:25   people going sums up pay this was a good [TS]

01:30:28   episode of the show that's all it takes [TS]

01:30:29   like I don't really care what the star [TS]

01:30:31   rating is for that podcast on a final [TS]

01:30:35   note for tonight there's been a lot of [TS]

01:30:38   mathematics that's been done [TS]

01:30:40   there's been a lot of math done math [TS]

01:30:42   British listeners maths Casey it's math [TS]

01:30:45   no it's [TS]

01:30:46   math they don't know what that means [TS]

01:30:48   yeah whatever did you know it's [TS]

01:30:49   pronounced hover anyway so friendly so [TS]

01:30:52   damn Provost who is one-half of studio [TS]

01:30:54   need has done some math he's crunch some [TS]

01:30:57   numbers and he is concluded that there [TS]

01:31:03   probably should [TS]

01:31:04   or at least could be attending a half [TS]

01:31:07   inch iPad and I'm gonna try to summarize [TS]

01:31:09   this as quickly as possible if you look [TS]

01:31:12   back to the original big ipad pro [TS]

01:31:15   announcement what Schiller had said was [TS]

01:31:18   hey if you take two full-size iPads [TS]

01:31:22   vertically and portrait but put them [TS]

01:31:25   adjacent with each other that screen [TS]

01:31:27   real estate of the two of them combined [TS]

01:31:29   is the size real estate wise young [TS]

01:31:32   resolution whys of the 12.9 inch iPad [TS]

01:31:35   pro so Dan said well what happens if you [TS]

01:31:38   did the same thing but with ipad mini's [TS]

01:31:42   so you have to ipad mini's standing in [TS]

01:31:44   portrait mode next to each other jason [TS]

01:31:46   to each other how big with the resultant [TS]

01:31:49   ipad need to be so q some math a little [TS]

01:31:53   Pythagorean theorem and guess what the [TS]

01:31:56   answer is right around ten and a half [TS]

01:31:58   inches which works out there aware that [TS]

01:32:01   works out in which is interesting [TS]

01:32:02   because we've been starting to hear a [TS]

01:32:04   little bit of rumbling about oh there [TS]

01:32:07   might be a 10 and a half inch iPad [TS]

01:32:09   someday somehow in the future but nobody [TS]

01:32:11   really understood it and tells dance [TS]

01:32:13   started to do this math so this sounds [TS]

01:32:15   really darn plausible from to me what [TS]

01:32:19   I'm not sure of and I've heard a lot of [TS]

01:32:21   people pontificating about it is do they [TS]

01:32:23   keep a 9.7 inch iPad around if i were to [TS]

01:32:27   wager a guess I'd say they do but only [TS]

01:32:30   in the dustbin the the old devices been [TS]

01:32:33   cheaply as Apple is off to do what do [TS]

01:32:37   you think knowing who that means going [TS]

01:32:38   to be here for like 10 years [TS]

01:32:40   well there's that so mark how do you how [TS]

01:32:42   do you read all this what do you think I [TS]

01:32:44   think it sounds very plausible I mean it [TS]

01:32:46   seems like if you look at the the 12.9 [TS]

01:32:50   inch ipad / users like they the people [TS]

01:32:53   who like that are real power users of [TS]

01:32:56   the ipad like they really like having [TS]

01:32:58   multitasking especially [TS]

01:32:59   but you know because it the more you [TS]

01:33:00   multitask the more you really want [TS]

01:33:02   resolution if they ever do windows like [TS]

01:33:04   john wants that would be even more [TS]

01:33:05   important as we know from using PC's [TS]

01:33:08   forever so you know the demand for it i [TS]

01:33:11   think it is is almost certainly there [TS]

01:33:13   because lots of people who are real ipad [TS]

01:33:16   power users want that extra resolution [TS]

01:33:19   for multitasking but but for whatever [TS]

01:33:22   reason either its Carrie sighs or hand [TS]

01:33:25   size or whatever else the 12.9 is is a [TS]

01:33:28   little too big it's it's a pretty big [TS]

01:33:31   ipad like speak if you're ready spending [TS]

01:33:33   time with one Casey the 12-9 not really [TS]

01:33:36   there's a couple people work that have [TS]

01:33:37   them so I see them and even though I see [TS]

01:33:40   them from time to time like maybe once a [TS]

01:33:42   week every time I see one I think to [TS]

01:33:44   myself my word this tremendous like that [TS]

01:33:48   it really is like comically large yeah [TS]

01:33:50   yeah yeah and so especially if you come [TS]

01:33:51   from the mini right so yeah so and and [TS]

01:33:54   you know too so the many shows us that [TS]

01:33:56   you can take the regular 9.7 in a quote [TS]

01:33:59   regular ipad 9.7 resolution you can [TS]

01:34:02   shrink it down a little bit to iphone [TS]

01:34:05   density and as long as you have decent [TS]

01:34:08   eyesight it works right and so there is [TS]

01:34:10   a market for that for people who don't [TS]

01:34:12   mind a little bit of everything little [TS]

01:34:14   smaller or maybe younger or power users [TS]

01:34:17   are really precise with their fingers [TS]

01:34:19   whatever else they would rather have a [TS]

01:34:20   smaller Carrie sighs and still have [TS]

01:34:23   higher resolution so there is a market [TS]

01:34:26   for that going from 9.7 resolution into [TS]

01:34:29   the ipad mini size so therefore follows [TS]

01:34:32   there's probably also a market for [TS]

01:34:34   people who want the 12-foot high [TS]

01:34:35   resolution in you know a more like 9.7 [TS]

01:34:38   size so i think this makes a lot of [TS]

01:34:41   sense whether it'll do is another story [TS]

01:34:43   it's plausible certainly we've heard [TS]

01:34:45   minor rumblings and I think big picture [TS]

01:34:47   before drawing it until you I'm wrong [TS]

01:34:50   about all this i think big picture if [TS]

01:34:53   you look at the way Apple devote [TS]

01:34:56   resources in recent years they may find [TS]

01:35:01   a product line that is like in great [TS]

01:35:04   need of attention and they they spend [TS]

01:35:06   like a year really like whipping into [TS]

01:35:08   shape and then they move on to the next [TS]

01:35:10   thing that needs a lot of attention [TS]

01:35:12   the apple TV a couple years ago was that [TS]

01:35:14   thing you do apple TV was in terrible [TS]

01:35:16   shape there's lots of increasing [TS]

01:35:18   competition they wanted to get it onto a [TS]

01:35:19   nap model and so they they gave some [TS]

01:35:22   effort to it they give a big boost and [TS]

01:35:25   they just left it alone that there's an [TS]

01:35:26   almost nothing changed in the [TS]

01:35:28   innumerable TV since its release [TS]

01:35:29   you know you're a half ago whatever that [TS]

01:35:30   was that last year they they put that [TS]

01:35:33   amount of attention on the Apple watch [TS]

01:35:34   because the apple watch was basically on [TS]

01:35:37   fire when it came allocate was inserted [TS]

01:35:39   had so many problems and so watch us [TS]

01:35:42   three got like lots of attention i [TS]

01:35:45   expect that the Apple watch is not going [TS]

01:35:48   to see tons of major changes this year i [TS]

01:35:50   think last year was it's time to shine [TS]

01:35:52   it got a bunch of good improvements in [TS]

01:35:54   watch us three and now we're probably in [TS]

01:35:56   for a quiet period and now i expect this [TS]

01:36:00   year to be another year of ipad [TS]

01:36:02   improvements where I expect there to be [TS]

01:36:04   the decent investment into the ipad this [TS]

01:36:08   year to try to turn around its sales [TS]

01:36:12   curve to try to really boost it try to [TS]

01:36:14   get it moving as like as another growth [TS]

01:36:17   engine again and I also expect that this [TS]

01:36:20   year i hope that there is a [TS]

01:36:23   larger-than-usual effort put into the [TS]

01:36:25   iphone I I think it's the iphones turn [TS]

01:36:28   if you know it in this model so [TS]

01:36:31   basically i think my phone is a lot more [TS]

01:36:33   importantly ipad so i expect the iphone [TS]

01:36:35   to get things that are a little more [TS]

01:36:37   resource intensive and the ipad to get [TS]

01:36:39   things that will satisfy people like [TS]

01:36:41   kinda like holdover updates so you know [TS]

01:36:44   long-standing customer requests like if [TS]

01:36:47   we ever get the rumored fix of the [TS]

01:36:49   multitasking switcher to have like a [TS]

01:36:51   much better app launching icon thing [TS]

01:36:53   than the weirdo card then they have now [TS]

01:36:55   like that's probably going to happen [TS]

01:36:56   this year it's gonna happen at all [TS]

01:36:58   because it made like it [TS]

01:36:59   this is the year for like ipad [TS]

01:37:01   improvements that people really wanted [TS]

01:37:03   to get people excited about the ipad [TS]

01:37:04   again that and that will keep the power [TS]

01:37:06   users going and then probably major [TS]

01:37:10   effort on the iphone hardware wise i [TS]

01:37:12   hope [TS]

01:37:13   here's the thing about the ipad form [TS]

01:37:16   factor and where the product is and its [TS]

01:37:18   life it's one of the easiest products [TS]

01:37:23   for Apple to fiddle with because at [TS]

01:37:26   ipad sighs with the internals you have a [TS]

01:37:28   lot of leeway you have so much leeway [TS]

01:37:31   that they don't even have to use all the [TS]

01:37:33   space for battery anymore right [TS]

01:37:35   it could be pretty darn thin they have [TS]

01:37:37   room for giant speakers the actual [TS]

01:37:39   system-on-a-chip and all the other [TS]

01:37:40   things is so small compared to the size [TS]

01:37:42   of the device you can for from [TS]

01:37:45   year-to-year make a different decisions [TS]

01:37:47   about how big is it how big is the you [TS]

01:37:50   know the this around for the entire [TS]

01:37:52   screen doesn't have a home button on the [TS]

01:37:54   screen that tech ever comes from the [TS]

01:37:55   iphone like you can play with all sorts [TS]

01:37:57   of sizes and by the way every time you [TS]

01:38:00   change the size or any other dimension [TS]

01:38:01   you can sell more accessories and cases [TS]

01:38:03   and stuff and everybody loves that so [TS]

01:38:05   tech wise and investment wise it's such [TS]

01:38:08   an easy thing to do to say we can take [TS]

01:38:11   you know the ipad pro 9.7 which is which [TS]

01:38:13   is one of the best iPads ever made and [TS]

01:38:16   change a whole bunch of things about it [TS]

01:38:18   dimensionally to try to make a different [TS]

01:38:20   compromise in the product with very [TS]

01:38:22   little investment because what does it [TS]

01:38:24   really take to change the size of the [TS]

01:38:27   screen by you know less than an inch [TS]

01:38:29   below to take the update the mac pro [TS]

01:38:30   right like it's not all here we go no [TS]

01:38:34   but this is this is like this is the [TS]

01:38:35   easiest thing ever because you're not [TS]

01:38:36   under space constraints just a matter of [TS]

01:38:38   finding new supplier and they do that [TS]

01:38:39   routinely anyway even if they keep the [TS]

01:38:41   screen the same size to find suppliers [TS]

01:38:42   for things like you can tweak this [TS]

01:38:44   product and I think the ipad is in a [TS]

01:38:47   good place I think the ipad pro is you [TS]

01:38:50   know one of the best iPads apple has [TS]

01:38:52   ever made perhaps the best and it is one [TS]

01:38:54   of the few products that i recommend [TS]

01:38:55   apple products arrow into people these [TS]

01:38:57   days with no reservations I want to get [TS]

01:38:59   an ipad i like that i was up should i [TS]

01:39:01   get the ipad yes just get it is there's [TS]

01:39:04   nothing wrong with it is great maybe [TS]

01:39:07   could have more rapid who cares [TS]

01:39:08   like it's so good but there's so few [TS]

01:39:10   compromises it you know and the few [TS]

01:39:13   things that I think about that they can [TS]

01:39:14   change these rumors except for [TS]

01:39:16   satisfying type of things you can do to [TS]

01:39:17   make people happy [TS]

01:39:18   would I like an apple pencil to that [TS]

01:39:20   connects to the smart connector hell yes [TS]

01:39:22   I'm in charge from it i hate the little [TS]

01:39:24   plug in thing in the end the end the [TS]

01:39:26   chart that you rarely have to do that [TS]

01:39:28   like the battery lasts long time but [TS]

01:39:29   there's room for improvement with small [TS]

01:39:32   changes to form factor and fit and [TS]

01:39:35   finish and they'll get to sell new cases [TS]

01:39:37   and new pencils and new [TS]

01:39:38   new third party stuff they don't like [TS]

01:39:40   such an easy win and I don't know if [TS]

01:39:42   that counts as like you said Marko [TS]

01:39:43   putting lots more investment the ipad [TS]

01:39:45   and giving it more attention what I [TS]

01:39:47   think it counts as is satisfying [TS]

01:39:50   customers of the ipad with actually a [TS]

01:39:52   fairly minimal investment just doing [TS]

01:39:54   like the basic stuff saying well we made [TS]

01:39:55   a couple iPads we've learned some things [TS]

01:39:57   change it was shifted around you know [TS]

01:40:00   they don't know what sizes they talk [TS]

01:40:01   about the original iPad this is the size [TS]

01:40:03   that we picked me just got to pick one [TS]

01:40:04   sighs fine but as the product line [TS]

01:40:07   diversifies I don't care how many sizes [TS]

01:40:08   of ipad there are as long as they're not [TS]

01:40:10   changing by three millimeters three or [TS]

01:40:12   four sizes is fine with me and you want [TS]

01:40:13   to fade one out and bring another one in [TS]

01:40:15   these are not radical shifts i mean [TS]

01:40:17   aside from the thing we talked about it [TS]

01:40:19   like i would like a 28 inch ipad i know [TS]

01:40:21   that the Americans of service to do [TS]

01:40:23   that's a whole different product right [TS]

01:40:24   whatever but within the realm of ipads [TS]

01:40:26   the youth battery-powered iPads that you [TS]

01:40:28   hold in your hands [TS]

01:40:29   I'm perfectly happy to see them mess [TS]

01:40:32   with the dimensions of this product and [TS]

01:40:34   the sort of the ergonomics and how it [TS]

01:40:36   works with the case in the pencil and [TS]

01:40:38   all that stuff and I can't imagine that [TS]

01:40:40   that type of change is a break the bank [TS]

01:40:43   type of thing so by all means Apple [TS]

01:40:44   continue to make the already good ipad [TS]

01:40:47   better with minimal investment and with [TS]

01:40:51   the money that you save you have a line [TS]

01:40:54   of desktop computers that and I think [TS]

01:40:59   that does it [TS]

01:41:00   thanks a lot 23 sponsors this week [TS]

01:41:03   indochino betterment and Casper and we [TS]

01:41:06   will see you next week [TS]

01:41:08   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:41:13   mean to be in [TS]

01:41:15   because it was accidental death was [TS]

01:41:18   accidental [TS]

01:41:20   John research Marco and Casey would help [TS]

01:41:25   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:41:28   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:41:32   know today p dot and if your twitter [TS]

01:41:38   follow them [TS]

01:41:41   yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

01:41:46   co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

01:41:55   Syracuse [TS]

01:42:03   what [TS]

01:42:07   so a friend of the show Brianna Wu has [TS]

01:42:12   decided that she really hasn't had [TS]

01:42:17   enough grief in her life and so she's [TS]

01:42:21   thought you know what I'm gonna run for [TS]

01:42:24   Congress doesn't which is it the house [TS]

01:42:26   of the Senate i always get a backwards [TS]

01:42:28   that she's running for house i believe [TS]

01:42:29   right so she's running for the house in [TS]

01:42:32   Massachusetts if I understand everything [TS]

01:42:33   properly and she has a and add that we [TS]

01:42:38   will link to in the show notes and so [TS]

01:42:40   one of the platform's she's running on [TS]

01:42:42   among other things is like the whole [TS]

01:42:45   kerfuffle from I guess was early last [TS]

01:42:47   year middle last year about Tim Cook in [TS]

01:42:50   in the iphone FBI stuff i think that's [TS]

01:42:53   worth mentioning something that's that's [TS]

01:42:55   relevant potentially to a lot of our [TS]

01:42:56   listeners even if you don't happen to [TS]

01:42:58   live in Massachusetts Oh John is our [TS]

01:43:01   representative mass it just sit didn't I [TS]

01:43:05   don't even know what do you call [TS]

01:43:06   yourself against it just wanted to say [TS]

01:43:08   just the same asshole did you know I [TS]

01:43:09   really did I really really did but I [TS]

01:43:12   tried not to I'm we gotta write in [TS]

01:43:14   Massachusetts and that's right i'm [TS]

01:43:16   pretty sure that's not right got it in [TS]

01:43:18   one [TS]

01:43:18   pretty sure that's not it at all anyway [TS]

01:43:21   so what are your thoughts on this John [TS]

01:43:22   yeah so she's running Massachusetts [TS]

01:43:24   she's running and another Democrat [TS]

01:43:25   because surprised investors it's well [TS]

01:43:28   maybe it was we've had we've had [TS]

01:43:30   problems with Republicans here before [TS]

01:43:31   but anyway she is running into the [TS]

01:43:32   Democrat who is I it is insufficiently [TS]

01:43:36   aligned with democratic principles and [TS]

01:43:40   is not prioritizing things that she [TS]

01:43:41   would like to prioritize and one of [TS]

01:43:43   those issues one of the issues that is [TS]

01:43:44   relevant to attack podcast is the idea [TS]

01:43:47   that you know mr. most politicians [TS]

01:43:48   regardless of party they don't know much [TS]

01:43:52   about tech stuff and they're easily [TS]

01:43:55   influenced by companies with a lot of [TS]

01:43:58   money who will persuade them to vote in [TS]

01:44:02   ways that are aligned with the interest [TS]

01:44:03   of those companies and because they [TS]

01:44:06   don't know much about the second like [TS]

01:44:07   well I don't know I guess this is the [TS]

01:44:09   right thing to like they don't even know [TS]

01:44:10   right but if you someone who is involved [TS]

01:44:13   in a tech world has a chance to take [TS]

01:44:18   stands on and make an important part of [TS]

01:44:20   the platform issue [TS]

01:44:21   do we care about so for example the [TS]

01:44:22   iphone FBI stuff like it i think if you [TS]

01:44:25   just asked a regular person should the [TS]

01:44:27   FBI be able to get into a terrorist [TS]

01:44:29   phone like they also yes of course [TS]

01:44:30   totally right but to understand the [TS]

01:44:33   bigger issue right [TS]

01:44:34   the bigger issue of like oh don't just [TS]

01:44:36   don't just answer based on your fear of [TS]

01:44:38   terrorism but think about the bigger [TS]

01:44:39   issue of data privacy and the [TS]

01:44:41   consequences and what it would lead to [TS]

01:44:42   if if you know all information was [TS]

01:44:45   accessible within the encryption was [TS]

01:44:47   outlawed all these other things are all [TS]

01:44:48   those things the tech people i feel like [TS]

01:44:50   i have a better grasp on than regular [TS]

01:44:52   people to make that a platform of a [TS]

01:44:55   congressional run a its novel to have [TS]

01:44:58   someone who's actually informed about [TS]

01:45:00   tech and who's making those issues you [TS]

01:45:03   know front center like this is a [TS]

01:45:04   differentiating factor my opponent [TS]

01:45:06   doesn't know about any of this stuff and [TS]

01:45:08   doesn't care and it's going to always go [TS]

01:45:09   the wrong way on these issues because [TS]

01:45:10   they're just gonna be aligned with the [TS]

01:45:11   cable companies or whatever doing to [TS]

01:45:13   their campaign right we go again [TS]

01:45:14   regardless of party this is not a [TS]

01:45:15   partisan issue like tech is terrible in [TS]

01:45:18   the political world but to make it a [TS]

01:45:22   differentiating factor but my question [TS]

01:45:23   is do do people care enough about this [TS]

01:45:27   issue for it to be a good idea [TS]

01:45:30   politically speaking like maybe the [TS]

01:45:31   reason that no politicians bring it up [TS]

01:45:33   is that like yeah so what you are on the [TS]

01:45:36   right side as far as not to concern but [TS]

01:45:38   are there enough nerds to make this [TS]

01:45:40   something that helps you get elected or [TS]

01:45:43   is this an issue that you've never seen [TS]

01:45:45   campaign ads for a very good reason and [TS]

01:45:47   a very good reason being nerds are few [TS]

01:45:50   and don't vote or don't believe you or [TS]

01:45:52   don't care and I don't know the answer [TS]

01:45:54   to that question i like the idea of you [TS]

01:45:56   know who doesn't like the idea of their [TS]

01:45:57   pet issues becoming the platform of some [TS]

01:46:00   politicians gonna say I know you care [TS]

01:46:02   about you no net neutrality and digital [TS]

01:46:06   privacy and whatever and no one ever [TS]

01:46:07   talks about them but i'm going to talk [TS]

01:46:08   about them like yes I like that person [TS]

01:46:10   but if there's like seven of us out [TS]

01:46:12   there who care about these things is not [TS]

01:46:14   going to help her get elected so I'm of [TS]

01:46:16   two minds in this i'm i'm i'm happy to [TS]

01:46:18   be catered to by candidate who believe [TS]

01:46:21   the same things I do about these [TS]

01:46:22   relatively esoteric features but [TS]

01:46:24   especially in the current climate which [TS]

01:46:27   i'm not going to go into too much where [TS]

01:46:28   there are so many issues that I think we [TS]

01:46:30   all agree or so much more important than [TS]

01:46:32   this is this [TS]

01:46:33   a distraction or even in the best of [TS]

01:46:36   cases two people really care enough [TS]

01:46:39   about digital privacy and other tech [TS]

01:46:42   issues to vote based on and to be clear [TS]

01:46:45   that's not like the only item and honor [TS]

01:46:46   platform by any stretch of the [TS]

01:46:48   imagination oh do not mean the ad will [TS]

01:46:50   have a link in the show notes is not [TS]

01:46:51   even about that like it's not about that [TS]

01:46:53   at all like women's issue is much larger [TS]

01:46:55   platform and that's an easier sell [TS]

01:46:56   because yes i think that is a winner yet [TS]

01:46:58   women's issues is anything i mean just [TS]

01:47:00   look at the Women's marching like plenty [TS]

01:47:03   of women of all based on religion but [TS]

01:47:04   specifically as it relates to attack [TS]

01:47:06   podcast you know her her mentioning and [TS]

01:47:09   all that this is an issue and part of [TS]

01:47:12   her platform i think is is rare and [TS]

01:47:14   novel so i'm not i'm not excluding any [TS]

01:47:16   other things that are much more [TS]

01:47:17   important are what I'm saying this issue [TS]

01:47:19   specifically does anyone care enough [TS]

01:47:21   about it or will it always be dwarfed by [TS]

01:47:24   the much more important issues including [TS]

01:47:25   women's issues i think it's it's it's [TS]

01:47:28   one note in in the music right it it's [TS]

01:47:33   one it's one thing that that certainly I [TS]

01:47:36   care about in and I think the two you [TS]

01:47:39   guys care about that when a [TS]

01:47:41   representative elected representative of [TS]

01:47:43   mine here in Virginia votes against what [TS]

01:47:46   i consider to be common sense nerd [TS]

01:47:50   topics LOL for example of voting against [TS]

01:47:53   net neutrality like I i notice that and [TS]

01:47:55   that's enough to make me strongly [TS]

01:47:57   consider the way I vote the next time I [TS]

01:47:59   vote so yeah I think I think this this [TS]

01:48:02   can absolutely sway people i think [TS]

01:48:03   you're right also that there are far [TS]

01:48:05   more important things to worry about [TS]

01:48:08   but this is also something that I am [TS]

01:48:09   worried about always feel the same way [TS]

01:48:12   when I say you know my representatives [TS]

01:48:14   which in general i'm fairly well aligned [TS]

01:48:16   with because it in the state that happen [TS]

01:48:18   to live in but again they you know they [TS]

01:48:20   just vote the wrong way in my opinion on [TS]

01:48:23   so many issues related to attack and [TS]

01:48:25   it's like you just have to swallow that [TS]

01:48:26   and be like look the alternative [TS]

01:48:28   alternative is so much worse and I'm so [TS]

01:48:30   much more important things on the other [TS]

01:48:32   hand just it just hurts to constantly at [TS]

01:48:34   the small that sought i am like that i'm [TS]

01:48:36   excited by someone who I agree with all [TS]

01:48:39   the big issues and also these one [TS]

01:48:43   section of small issues right and that [TS]

01:48:45   definitely it's so rare stuff [TS]

01:48:47   a4tech things because everybody can know [TS]

01:48:49   what's going to find a politician that [TS]

01:48:50   agrees with everyone interview so it [TS]

01:48:51   doesn't exist you always have you know [TS]

01:48:52   even if we didn't have this horrible [TS]

01:48:54   two-party system [TS]

01:48:55   you're never going to find someone to [TS]

01:48:56   represent you like I agree with every [TS]

01:48:58   single thing they say you gotta have a [TS]

01:49:00   hierarchy you gotta prioritize and so on [TS]

01:49:01   and so forth but I think tech is not and [TS]

01:49:05   not as obscure as it should be more [TS]

01:49:07   prominent than it is let's put it that [TS]

01:49:08   way because the importance of tech in [TS]

01:49:11   all of our lives has increased so much [TS]

01:49:14   over the past several decades but now it [TS]

01:49:16   actually is up there with the other [TS]

01:49:20   issues you know it should be discussed [TS]

01:49:22   it should it shouldn't be like oh that's [TS]

01:49:24   incredibly esoteric who cares about the [TS]

01:49:26   internet because the Internet is [TS]

01:49:27   extremely powerful and extremely [TS]

01:49:29   important and its power and importance [TS]

01:49:31   is not diminishing over time so maybe [TS]

01:49:35   it's generational thing and then we have [TS]

01:49:36   to wait for a couple of generations to [TS]

01:49:38   turn over before we really get into a [TS]

01:49:40   world where people accept and understand [TS]

01:49:41   the importance and power of networks on [TS]

01:49:43   the internet and hopefully we don't make [TS]

01:49:45   too many bad decisions before then screw [TS]

01:49:47   it all up you know but it should be [TS]

01:49:50   talking about more than it is and it's a [TS]

01:49:52   shame that even today I give me the [TS]

01:49:54   frame and then i gave this is still [TS]

01:49:55   viewed as a thing that only nerds care [TS]

01:50:00   about and can understand but it affects [TS]

01:50:02   everybody's life doesn't matter whether [TS]

01:50:03   you're in or whether you're into techno [TS]

01:50:05   radio signals podcast these issues do [TS]

01:50:07   affect your life but it's basically [TS]

01:50:09   impossible to live in the united states [TS]

01:50:11   and not be affected by you know did the [TS]

01:50:15   technology law and telecommunication law [TS]

01:50:17   and all those things you are affected by [TS]

01:50:19   it whether you understand you know why [TS]

01:50:21   your cable bill is going up or you know [TS]

01:50:24   where you're able to get information [TS]

01:50:26   over and from or not things could be [TS]

01:50:28   much worse than they are and I think the [TS]

01:50:30   net neutrality thing we've sort of held [TS]

01:50:33   the line on it for a long time but it's [TS]

01:50:36   it's a fragile wall would crumble in any [TS]

01:50:38   moment and it really hope more people in [TS]

01:50:41   Congress and running for Congress bring [TS]

01:50:43   this issue along like you said another [TS]

01:50:44   note in the in the symphony it deserves [TS]

01:50:47   to be at least mention that's not going [TS]

01:50:49   to say that it deserves to be at least [TS]

01:50:50   mention along with the other headline [TS]

01:50:51   issues that are that are much more [TS]

01:50:52   important you know the people's lives [TS]

01:50:54   depend on in a very real and immediate [TS]

01:50:56   way tech issues [TS]

01:50:59   should also be brought along for the [TS]

01:51:00   ride at this point so moving on to [TS]

01:51:04   anything that's not politics so Casey it [TS]

01:51:09   seems like you might be thinking more [TS]

01:51:13   seriously this is about possibly getting [TS]

01:51:17   a Tesla that is not true stop with that [TS]

01:51:20   ridiculousness [TS]

01:51:21   so let me let me just give you a brief [TS]

01:51:23   statement on matter of you possibly [TS]

01:51:26   adding a test left so we're so you cars [TS]

01:51:31   are a big part of your identity and how [TS]

01:51:34   is it is gonna write this is not so this [TS]

01:51:38   is how this is gonna go okay right yeah [TS]

01:51:40   seriously [TS]

01:51:41   so when we went to cars and coffee a few [TS]

01:51:43   weeks ago I made the remark that now [TS]

01:51:47   that I'm a Tesla person and neck now [TS]

01:51:50   that I I i look at all the other cars [TS]

01:51:52   out there and all they're like [TS]

01:51:54   decked-out engines and big mufflers and [TS]

01:51:57   all this like horsepower and everything [TS]

01:51:58   else and I i feel kind of the way I feel [TS]

01:52:02   now when I see like cool like [TS]

01:52:04   overclocked pc hardware with like all [TS]

01:52:07   the blue leds in it and everything else [TS]

01:52:09   it's like that is something that was a [TS]

01:52:12   part of my life was a huge part of my [TS]

01:52:14   life for a long time but what I've moved [TS]

01:52:17   to now all that is irrelevant to me now [TS]

01:52:20   and so I look at that now and like I [TS]

01:52:24   look at the cool pc hardware even just [TS]

01:52:25   like fast pcs good graphics cards [TS]

01:52:28   awesome cpus the dual cpu students that [TS]

01:52:31   used to be members of my family and now [TS]

01:52:32   aren't all of these like high-end PC [TS]

01:52:36   hardware things that I used to love so [TS]

01:52:38   much [TS]

01:52:39   I'm no longer interested because I see [TS]

01:52:43   them and I'm like okay that's cool I I [TS]

01:52:44   respect the kind of horsepower your pc [TS]

01:52:46   has but because I'm no longer interested [TS]

01:52:49   in Windows PCs that's all I i have a [TS]

01:52:53   hard time really like getting into it as [TS]

01:52:55   much and it's kinda feels like it's the [TS]

01:52:57   past in my life so at this car event I [TS]

01:53:00   kind of felt that way looking all these [TS]

01:53:02   cars thinking like now that i have [TS]

01:53:04   experienced the joy and and sheer [TS]

01:53:08   disruption of driving electric car that [TS]

01:53:11   really does [TS]

01:53:12   make all gas-powered cars feel like the [TS]

01:53:16   past and and feel old clunky by [TS]

01:53:18   comparison even really good ones [TS]

01:53:20   it makes them feel old and clunky by [TS]

01:53:21   comparison I had a hard time [TS]

01:53:23   appreciating much of the like cool car [TS]

01:53:26   world because of that because now I've [TS]

01:53:28   kind of shifted in in what I what I live [TS]

01:53:31   in and what I like it was important to [TS]

01:53:33   me so for you to get it for you to [TS]

01:53:35   consider a Tesla I have a feeling that [TS]

01:53:38   you were going to have a very hard time [TS]

01:53:39   in your mind [TS]

01:53:41   reconciling that with your with this [TS]

01:53:44   core part of what you've made your [TS]

01:53:46   identity of like you love cars you love [TS]

01:53:48   cars your whole life and you love like [TS]

01:53:50   the engine parts of cars you love the [TS]

01:53:53   love like the mufflers and the noise and [TS]

01:53:55   the cylinders like you love all that [TS]

01:53:57   stuff right and so I wonder like if [TS]

01:54:00   maybe you should be considering a Tesla [TS]

01:54:03   more seriously than you are but maybe [TS]

01:54:06   you're not letting yourself consider it [TS]

01:54:07   because you're because you don't want to [TS]

01:54:11   put at risk that part of your identity [TS]

01:54:14   changing so i think i'm trying to think [TS]

01:54:19   of a brief answer the answer to this [TS]

01:54:20   quasi question because I think we could [TS]

01:54:23   do a a like 15 minute deep dive into my [TS]

01:54:26   psyche and in what what motivates me and [TS]

01:54:29   what doesn't but I understand where [TS]

01:54:31   you're coming from i think the the first [TS]

01:54:34   of all the primary reason I'm not really [TS]

01:54:36   considering a Tesla is it's just so much [TS]

01:54:38   money it's just so much money i had said [TS]

01:54:42   I'd said to you privately that you know [TS]

01:54:45   if you look at what in at what a [TS]

01:54:47   reasonably well equipped model s cost if [TS]

01:54:50   one were to buy one and I'm not to say [TS]

01:54:53   that's the right answer but that's what [TS]

01:54:54   i think of because of all of only ever [TS]

01:54:56   bought cars I've never I've never least [TS]

01:54:58   so you look at the price tag of a [TS]

01:55:00   reasonably equipped model assets [TS]

01:55:02   covering around a hundred thousand [TS]

01:55:03   dollars i understand you can get cheaper [TS]

01:55:05   ones but built the way i would want it [TS]

01:55:07   it would probably be around a hundred [TS]

01:55:08   thousand dollars that's almost three [TS]

01:55:11   times what I paid for my current car [TS]

01:55:13   which is a BMW 3-series that's not an [TS]

01:55:16   unreasonable car like that it's a pretty [TS]

01:55:18   nice car [TS]

01:55:19   well to be fair you are you are [TS]

01:55:21   comparing used to New though so easier [TS]

01:55:23   so could compare used to use if you're [TS]

01:55:25   going to make a price comparison [TS]

01:55:26   oh it's the okay well I have to go the [TS]

01:55:28   other direction because i don't have the [TS]

01:55:29   faintest idea what a test was used but i [TS]

01:55:30   can tell you that my car when it was new [TS]

01:55:32   was fifty-five thousand dollars [TS]

01:55:35   something like that [TS]

01:55:36   so which wich to be clear is ridiculous [TS]

01:55:39   like my car is very nice it is not a [TS]

01:55:41   55,000 our car that that's why i bought [TS]

01:55:44   a used but in any case so you're looking [TS]

01:55:46   at two of my car 41 Tesla and that in [TS]

01:55:52   and of itself makes all of my pipe [TS]

01:55:54   dreams moot because there's I don't [TS]

01:55:56   think that there's any way I could [TS]

01:55:58   justify spending that kind of money or [TS]

01:56:00   the equivalent thereof in a lease i just [TS]

01:56:03   i don't think i could do it now this is [TS]

01:56:06   where everyone will say well perfect the [TS]

01:56:07   model 3 is just the right car for you [TS]

01:56:09   maybe i don't know i'm skeptical it'll [TS]

01:56:12   be as quick as I'd like it to be and [TS]

01:56:14   this is where everyone says what do you [TS]

01:56:16   really need to go fast for I don't but [TS]

01:56:18   that's what I like and I like what I [TS]

01:56:20   like no there's nothing wrong with [TS]

01:56:21   wanting to go fast and and believe me [TS]

01:56:23   with the Tesla there is ample speed even [TS]

01:56:25   their slow models are fast for the model [TS]

01:56:27   s i agree i'm less confident in the 38 [TS]

01:56:31   very well could be very very well could [TS]

01:56:33   be i'll end up wrong in which case I [TS]

01:56:35   think I'll give a model 3 a real look I [TS]

01:56:37   didn't put a deposit down or anything [TS]

01:56:38   like that because i think it will still [TS]

01:56:41   be like 2-3 years before one of those is [TS]

01:56:43   even available for those who put a [TS]

01:56:44   deposit down i forget what the official [TS]

01:56:46   timeline is but we'll see [TS]

01:56:47   yeah but so let's assume for the sake of [TS]

01:56:51   conversation that I'm willing to spend a [TS]

01:56:53   hundred thousand dollars or the [TS]

01:56:54   equivalent thereof in the lease payment [TS]

01:56:56   i think you're largely on to something [TS]

01:57:01   in that it would be a tough bridge to [TS]

01:57:03   cross because I have for my entire life [TS]

01:57:07   since I can remember I've treated cars [TS]

01:57:11   in in car culture to some degree as such [TS]

01:57:15   a critical part of my life and I think [TS]

01:57:18   that comes from there was always an old [TS]

01:57:22   car in our garage my dad worked for IBM [TS]

01:57:25   for something like 30 point 30 years but [TS]

01:57:28   there was a brief window of time before [TS]

01:57:30   he started working for IBM where he was [TS]

01:57:32   a professional mechanic for buick and he [TS]

01:57:35   had all in he had always tinkered with [TS]

01:57:37   cars since he was a kid [TS]

01:57:39   now the difference [TS]

01:57:40   and a denies that he has actual [TS]

01:57:41   practical knowledge and all of my [TS]

01:57:43   knowledge well what little I have is all [TS]

01:57:45   theoretical and if you doubt me on that [TS]

01:57:47   I have a podcaster and community people [TS]

01:57:49   but in any case but all kidding aside [TS]

01:57:53   you know I've grown up with cars around [TS]

01:57:54   me all my life and you know I think you [TS]

01:57:57   tend to emulate your parents and my dad [TS]

01:57:59   has always been obsessed with cars and [TS]

01:58:00   so because of that i think i've always [TS]

01:58:02   been obsessed with cars and even if if i [TS]

01:58:05   were to get a Tesla sitting here now not [TS]

01:58:08   knowing any better i think i would [TS]

01:58:09   probably want like a stupid Dino juice [TS]

01:58:12   powered not weekend carbonate weekend [TS]

01:58:15   car one that has three pedals maybe a [TS]

01:58:18   convertible that I've ever owned one [TS]

01:58:20   really but that sounds like it could be [TS]

01:58:22   fun you know like an s2000 or something [TS]

01:58:25   like that uh you just have just have to [TS]

01:58:28   remind me what driving used to feel like [TS]

01:58:31   before it was all automated and before [TS]

01:58:33   some of the soul was taken out of it and [TS]

01:58:35   i don't mean that to be insulting I just [TS]

01:58:36   feel like it's a very different animal [TS]

01:58:38   with with the Tesla but I tell you what [TS]

01:58:41   you know when we were out that morning [TS]

01:58:43   on new year's eve i drove us from cars [TS]

01:58:46   and coffee to where we had breakfast and [TS]

01:58:49   every time I gave that that Tesla this [TS]

01:58:53   was this was underscores Tesla every [TS]

01:58:55   time I gave that Tesla a little bit of [TS]

01:58:57   my right foot it just put a humongous [TS]

01:58:59   smile on my face because it is just [TS]

01:59:01   freaking intoxicating having infinite [TS]

01:59:04   torque from no RPM it's it's [TS]

01:59:06   unbelievably intoxicating and so to that [TS]

01:59:09   end I wonder if I had a model ass if I [TS]

01:59:12   would get over it a lot quicker than I [TS]

01:59:14   expect I sure did I mean like until you [TS]

01:59:17   like like when I i going from the m52 [TS]

01:59:20   the model s I really was afraid that I [TS]

01:59:23   would really miss like the sporty you no [TS]

01:59:26   vienes of the m5 and shifting shifting [TS]

01:59:29   gears and everything and I really didn't [TS]

01:59:32   like I thought that would I was very [TS]

01:59:35   worried about that and I ate it was a [TS]

01:59:36   complete non-issue as soon as hard drive [TS]

01:59:38   models like oh my god this is so good [TS]

01:59:40   now that being said if you theoretically [TS]

01:59:43   were to do you're like little gas car [TS]

01:59:47   for fun weekend reminding yourself that [TS]

01:59:49   you exist if only there was someone else [TS]

01:59:52   in your household [TS]

01:59:53   was looking for a new full-size sedan [TS]

01:59:56   yeah so what you sayin Aaron gets a [TS]

01:59:58   tussle [TS]

01:59:59   I mean Aaron [TS]

01:59:59   I mean Aaron [TS]

02:00:00   can make her own her own car decision of [TS]

02:00:01   course but maybe aaron could get a model [TS]

02:00:04   s because that's the size and end class [TS]

02:00:08   of car that I believe she wants the [TS]

02:00:10   space from and then you for like you [TS]

02:00:15   know when you go to work and you can [TS]

02:00:16   leave leave the model s at home for you [TS]

02:00:18   know because errands with Declan during [TS]

02:00:20   the workday right so you know they're be [TS]

02:00:22   the car seat in that one and then you [TS]

02:00:25   write your little s2000 which is [TS]

02:00:27   probably not that expensive today [TS]

02:00:29   because they're not that new you write [TS]

02:00:31   your s2000 work or miata or something [TS]

02:00:33   and you have you had your fun little [TS]

02:00:36   rocket engine car with a stick with [TS]

02:00:38   three pedals and that that's you remind [TS]

02:00:41   yourself that you like cars car and then [TS]

02:00:43   you have the model s it as the other car [TS]

02:00:46   your family that Aaron drives most of [TS]

02:00:47   the time and that you slowly fall in [TS]

02:00:49   love with you know I is funny and [TS]

02:00:52   wrenching that for a couple reasons [TS]

02:00:53   first of all I've marked up the street [TS]

02:00:55   with Aaron and she's told me in no [TS]

02:00:57   uncertain terms that there's no way she [TS]

02:00:58   would be spending that kind of money a [TS]

02:01:00   hand model s now it's kind of funny [TS]

02:01:02   because it's her money is my money and [TS]

02:01:04   my money is her money it's all really [TS]

02:01:06   our money but be that as it may also [TS]

02:01:08   join digestion obviously right but yes [TS]

02:01:10   she said no way she says she has no [TS]

02:01:12   interesting and not because she doesn't [TS]

02:01:13   think it's nice and she's driven [TS]

02:01:14   underscores car once or twice as well [TS]

02:01:17   and I think she really liked it but she [TS]

02:01:18   just does not feel like it's the right [TS]

02:01:20   value for money because i don't think it [TS]

02:01:22   is value from my well so as an [TS]

02:01:25   automobile alone i don't think it's a [TS]

02:01:27   very good price performer as a glimpse [TS]

02:01:29   of the future and not that bad but which [TS]

02:01:32   mind into your car for those repairs [TS]

02:01:33   don't even talk to me about that it's a [TS]

02:01:35   very sore subject [TS]

02:01:38   can I give you my plan for all this [TS]

02:01:41   disposable income for the press of cases [TS]

02:01:43   used BMW you can get his inherent honda [TS]

02:01:46   accord with how grand take the hundred [TS]

02:01:51   grand that you are going to spend on the [TS]

02:01:53   Tesla and bayous ferrari done and done [TS]

02:01:56   Oh talk about maintenance costs yeah [TS]

02:01:58   right it's your fun but you have two [TS]

02:02:00   very large cars the both of which can [TS]

02:02:03   carry all your stuff at all the children [TS]

02:02:06   and then when case he wants to feel [TS]

02:02:07   connected to you know the living [TS]

02:02:09   breathing heart inside him [TS]

02:02:11   don't think your heart breeds you don't [TS]

02:02:13   mean that he would have a Ferrari and i [TS]

02:02:15   have to say going to the cars & coffee [TS]

02:02:17   think I didn't having despite having [TS]

02:02:19   driven and been driven in Tesla's which [TS]