The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:02 ◼   ► can't innovate anymore my ass [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► thank you [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► today we're going to talk about [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► important things like me driving my dads [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► 1970 Dodge Dart yesterday yep yeah [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► that's that's a good idea what about um [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► I was wondering John do we have any [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► follow-up we actually do not actually do [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► it is only the morse only two oh okay [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► bark bark the timestamp kids it's only [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► two items in it by my clock were seven [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► and a half minutes into the call so [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► after follow-up we can also talk about [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► t-shirts I suppose okay dad wants to [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► kick us off dad can't we just eat her [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► dessert first not only you know I [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► support I all snark aside we should get [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► through the follow-up it shouldn't be [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► very long hopefully all right last week [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► we talked for the second time about a [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► PFS filename encoding and you wouldn't [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► think there would be more to say about [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► it and yet here we are to talk about it [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► for the third possibly fourth are you [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► serious yes because Apple has posted [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► official documentation on their website [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► answering the question hey what's the [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► deal with thought Lima coating on a PFS [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► and so to summarize and this is a little [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► bit weirder than I would have expected [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► they say a PFS has case sensitive in [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► case insensitive variants we kind of [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► assume that would be the case but really [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► here you go they set it right out right [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► the case insensitive variant of a PFS is [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► normalization preserving but not [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► normalization sensitive which is pretty [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► weird like that basically if you send it [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► a file name normalized however the hell [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► you want to pick your own Unicode [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► normalization the a PFS will preserve [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► that but it's not normalization [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► sensitive this is the case insensitive [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► variant it's not normalization sensitive [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► in that if you try to look something up [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► and you say hey do you have a file [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► called cafe with little yo with the [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► accent and my reading of this is that it [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► you feed it that string in any [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► normalization you want and it doesn't [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► matter what normalization it is in the [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► file system it will find it because the [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► file system is not normalization [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► sensitive but it preserves what you give [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► it really confusing so anyway we'll have [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► to get [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► a case-insensitive variant of this on [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► the mac and do some tests to see what [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► the deal is but the case sensitive [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► variant is both normalization preserving [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► and normalization sensitive so that is [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► straightforward it's the case sensitive [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► on iOS is just exactly what we said it [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► takes what you give it and that's it and [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► they do clarify here file names and a [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► PFS are encoded in utf-8 and aren't [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► normalized so it wants you so it's not [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► as if you read a directory structure and [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► a P of s and user I have no idea what [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► encoding this is assuming everybody's [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► following the rules and I'm not sure if [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► this is enforced at the file system [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► level or not they all have to be utf-8 [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► and the file system itself is not going [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► to take your utf-8 string and normalize [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► it like H of S Plus that it's like [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► whatever you give it in your GF 8 that's [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► what it's going to stick in the file [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► system both variants will do that but [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► it's interesting that they're saying you [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► know no utf-16 no utf-32 know anything [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► like that I suppose if you use the [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► lowest level API as you could just jam [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► would have that you wanted into there [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► but they're they're documented here [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► utf-8 and they compared with the HFS [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► plus which has all of its weird rules [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► and they say that in Mac OS 10 12 for [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► the apos Developer Preview was updated [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► to include the case insensitive variant [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► so this is the first time the case [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► insensitive area native API fuss has [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► been available in any version of the [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► operating system and an iOS of course in [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► 10 3 we get the case sensitive variant [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► and they give some advice for avoiding [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► bugs I bet there will be wwc sessions [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► about this exact issue because I think [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► it's going to come up a lot they want [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► you to use the high level API is they [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► want you use NS file manager nsurl and [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► they want you to use the filesystem [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► representation property of nsurl we're [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► in creating an opening files with lower [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► level filesystem API is like the POSIX [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► tough so there are high level API is to [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► give you you know a character buffer or [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► whatever to feed into the lower level [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► api's so I'm glad they have some [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► documentation on it it's still pretty [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► weird this is definitely a case where [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► we're going to need to see a lot of [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► sample code and a lot of sort of best [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► practices and Andy patterns and still I [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► believe when the when the Mac operating [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► system ships with a non developer [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► preview version as operating system we [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► will all get to find out [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► which are on our applications are making [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► assumptions that no longer hold in an a [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► PFS world as they slowly break i'm gonna [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► bet on adobe i don't know about you guys [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► I think that's a pretty safe bet oh my [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► goodness all right we should do a quick [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► bit of follow-up and talk about the [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► situation report for WOD see we spoke [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► last episode marco was one hundred [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► percent dedicated two layers which as [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► far as i know is still had that still [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► has availability so you might want to [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► check that out john and i had put our [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► names in the hat for WWDC john did you [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► win the lottery and win the opportunity [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► to give Apple sixteen hundred dollars of [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► your money I did I'm a winner Oh Brad [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► congratulations I was are excited yeah I [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► remember the interminable wait in years [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► past for you know when other people are [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► getting their emails and this time I was [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► distracted enough that about time I [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► looked at my email there it was success [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► very happy delightful I also won the [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► lottery this year which is very exciting [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► because I did not win the lottery last [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► year so I will also be at WABC which I'm [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► very very excited about before we're [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► asked since all three of us will be in [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► town we are not going to do a live in [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► front of people ATP we never really have [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► the closest thing we came was when we [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► were on the talk show we don't do that [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► because even though some of us would [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► enjoy doing so absolutely zero of the [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► three of us want to have anything to do [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► with planning it and so that is why it's [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► not happening but all three of us will [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► be in town I'm sure we'll talk about [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► this more before the on the episode [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► before WV DC but if you see us please [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► say hi we always enjoy it we may not be [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► able to talk for very long depending on [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► the situation but we always enjoyed if [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► you could say hi any other quick [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► thoughts about wdc kids no good talk [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► everybody where are your ATP shirts yeah [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► well oh and where your ATP shirts it is [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► all but guaranteed you will get a [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► high-five hug or some other interaction [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► from at least me if no one else if I [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► spot an ATP shirt and if i remember i'll [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► have some ATP stickers printed which [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► i'll probably forget but if i remember [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► i'll have some printed in if I [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► in a t-shirt you're getting a sticker [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► and then finally on a very very brief [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► but somber note I just wanted to quickly [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► recognize that a member of our community [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► Jason Seifer who was a fellow podcaster [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► a ruby developer and for a long time a [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► teacher treehouse passed away unexpected [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► and unexpectedly tragically over the [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► weekend and I just wanted to acknowledge [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► that and say that that I know I'm in and [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► I'm pretty darn sure I speak for [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► everyone the three of us are very sad to [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► hear and we were really bummed about it [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► Mike and I talked about it on the [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► forthcoming episode of analog that won't [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► be out until the weekends are probably [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► several days after this episode but [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► we're really bummed out and we're really [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► sad about it and we just wanted to take [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► a pause to to say that all right big [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► week a little bit think it's been some [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► things have happened so this morning [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► there appears to have been some sort of [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► an embargo that had dropped about a [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► meeting that happens sometimes I guess [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► in the last day or two with regard to [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► the mac pro of all things yeah i mean [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► who had this on the bingo card for this [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► week right like that certainly certainly [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► not me oh my god this this was a quite a [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► big surprise a pleasant surprise but [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► certainly a sizable one yeah so there [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► were a handful of people that were [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► invited to cupertino to discuss I i [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► believe it was phrased as a round table [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► to talk about the mac yes a small round [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► table discussion about the max so as per [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► john gruber it was he matthew panzer ii [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► know lance ulanoff ena free how did I [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► shoot i pronounce our own deny you're [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► asking the wrong people alright well [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► that's right I'm so sorry if I got that [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► wrong anyway and John pegs I'll ski I [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► believe that's pretty close to right I [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► should have made somebody else read [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► those names so I didn't have to anyway [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► the the group of them went to cupertino [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► to have a roundtable discussion about [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► the mac and including about the mac pro [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► so not even including the map i would [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► say it was primarily about the mac pro [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► that's absolutely [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► interesting how they phrase this like [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► come out come out to cupertino will have [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► a roundtable discussion about the mac [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► who knows what they actually told the [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► people about what they're going to do [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► but their their characterization we're [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► just gonna hang out we're gonna talk [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► about the mac a little bit right guys [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► and yeah like Margot said no they're [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► going to talk specifically about one [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► particular Mac this near and dear to all [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► of our hearts except for Casey and [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► that's entirely what the thing was about [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► but I guess they can't come out and tell [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► people hey fly out Cupertino so we can [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► tell you stuff about the mac pro they [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► always want to have a little bit of a [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► surprise yeah I guess they did talk [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► about the imac I mean they talked about [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► a lot of things because you could ask [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► them any questions you want it and then [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► they could answer them however they [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► wanted but what the big takeaway from [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► this and most of the headlines with the [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► exception of a couple that did mention [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► the imac we're all about the mac pro [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► right so I'm going to do my best to [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► summarize and then I will probably get [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► interrupted and that's for the best so [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► let me start by meeting a little for a [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► little from what Gruber had written and [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► he says here's how she'll or broke the [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► news on the Mac Pro it's worth quoting [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► him at lengths and let me now quote [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► Gruber quoting Schiller with regard to [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► the mac pro we are in the process of [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► what we call completely rethinking the [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► mac pro we're working on it we have a [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► team working hard on it right now and we [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► want to architect it so that we can keep [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► it fresh with regular improvements and [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► we're committed to making it our highest [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► and high-throughput desktop system [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► designed for are demanding pro customers [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► as a part of doing a new mac pro it is [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► by definition of modular system we will [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► be doing a pro display as well john [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► siracusa it is your lucky day that's me [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► not sure anyway now that would be easy [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► that would have been amazing yeah you [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► won't see any of those products this [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► year we're in the process of that we [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► think it's really important to create [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► something great for our pro customers [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► who want a mac pro modular system and [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► that'll take longer than this year to do [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► in the interim we know that there are a [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► number of customers who will continue to [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► buy our current mac pro's to be clear a [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► current mac pro's metha needs of some of [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► our customers and we know that clearly [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► not all of our customers none of this is [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► black and white it's wide variety of [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► customers some it's the kind of system [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► that they wanted others it was not in [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► the meantime we're going to update the [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► configs to make it faster and better for [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► their dollar this is not a new model [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► a new design we're just going to update [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► the configs we're doing that this week [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► we can give you the specifics on that [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► the CPUs we're moving them down the line [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► the GPUs down the line to get more [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► performance per dollar for customers who [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► do need to continue to buy them on the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► in the owner in the interim until we get [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► a newly architected system so there is a [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► new mac pro it is not happening in 2017 [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► there is a small spec spec bump on the [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► existing mac pro but things are [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► happening and the fact that Apple is [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► addressing this at all I think is really [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► exciting and in really really good news [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► i can continue to summarize but i think [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► at this point we should take a moment [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► and start talking so Marco let's start [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► with you what do you think I have like [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► four pages of notes here where to begin [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► I mean so we will get into some of the [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► specifics but just high level overview [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► I'm incredibly happy to hear this this [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► is awesome because what this means you [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► know for for a long time it has seemed [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► you know the the neglect of the Mac Pro [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► has been going on for three years if you [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► measure it from the trash can but [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► actually the neglect of the mac pro [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► started in 2010 the the well the last [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► like basically in 2010 was the last new [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► cheese grater revision they officially [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► did one in twenty twelve but it was [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► really the same thing with like one more [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► processor option at the top end it was [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► actually very similar what they just did [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► today but actually with it it today was [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► even less because there are no new [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► options but the 2012 Mac Pro really [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► wasn't a thing the 2010 one was the was [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► the last cheese grater update that [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► mattered and if you ever seen the old [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► logo of our show by the way yeah it was [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► a cheese grater Mac Pro with a little [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► new label stuck on it and sarcastically [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► because we were waiting for the Mac Pro [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► that the new mac pros to be announced at [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► WABC we had been waiting for a while and [TS]

00:13:37 ◼   ► they did announce new mac pro's all [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► right maybe it was like a press release [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► updated not even a stage I forget but [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► they were only knew you know [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► conceptually like technically yeah [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► there's one new configuration is one new [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► cpu that was the I think that was the [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► very first icon this podcast ever had [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► it was right and so the show was founded [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► on dissatisfaction with the with the [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► offerings of the Mac Pro see it so the [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► people who dated back to the trashcan [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► yeah the trashcan has had problems and [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► we'll talk about that but even as far [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► back in the cheese grater it seemed like [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► they took everybody off the cheese [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► grater and said you know we've been [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► steadily updating this cheese grater for [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► a while you know every time there's a [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► new cpu upgrading the GPUs every year [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► just like clockwork but we're not going [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► to do that anymore and maybe they all [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► went off to make the trash can which is [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► really weird and complicated or maybe [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► they were just you know pulling back a [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► little bit and slowing down the updates [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► again it's hard to know what goes on [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► inside Apple but this phenomenon of the [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► Mac Pro no longer being updated steadily [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► is as Marco said not a phenomenon that [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► goes back to 2013 it goes all the way [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► back to 2010 so it's a long time exactly [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► and so when you know clearly one of the [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► reasons why there is a long delay [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► between the 2010 one and 2013 redesign [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► which was really it was announced in [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► mid-2013 but it wasn't really available [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► it went for sale in late December of [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► 2013 and wasn't actually shipped to [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► anybody until the first couple months of [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► 2014 so it was you know a good three and [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► a half years between like July 2010 when [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► that other one came out and this new one [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► I'm that was presumably because they [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► were doing this big redesign and [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► everything and also by the way they they [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► pre announced the 23rd yeah Mac Pro [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► mostly because we felt like or Apple [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► felt like it like they had to because we [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► were waiting like what's the deal what's [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► the old Mac Pro you did this update and [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► it was barely an update it was like you [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► know that you call that an update where [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► is the real new Mac Pro and we were [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► waiting what it then seemed like such a [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► long time for they felt like they need [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► to say at WWDC here's the new Mac Pro [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► ins this amazing thing we're like yay [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► finally is it all by the way not really [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► like shipping for a long time but but [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► still they like why didn't they hold it [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► until it was it was somewhat close to [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► shipping because they felt but you know [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► that whatever dissatisfaction there was [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► among that customer base they had to [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► reassure them by saying alright we're [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► going to announce a thing we're going to [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► show you the pictures of it here it is [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► we're going to put it in a little glass [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► tube outside of the Presidio at Moscone [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► and so you can look at it and see that [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► it's a real thing but you're not getting [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► one [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► months but we all felt better because [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► it's like well at least we know now that [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► the Mac Pro isn't dead that is not there [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► the reason they weren't operating the [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► cheese graters could have been because [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► they were working on this and this is a [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► fancy new thing and it will be coming [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► soon and I think we all basically felt [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► better about that even though there was [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► a delay and this current announcement is [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► like everything will happen before but [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► stretch all the time lines out even [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► farther you know at the time we thought [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► they don't care about Mac Pro users they [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► don't care about the Mac Pro and then [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► they release the you know the 2013 one [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► and we thought okay great they released [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► a new one and this is awesome however it [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► doesn't need a lot of people's needs in [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► a bunch of ways that we'll get into in a [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► minute and so then that was now that [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► it's been now like about the same delay [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► between 2010 on that one and between [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► that one and now you know about three [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► and a half years or so the assumption [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► that we've all been making and I totally [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► owned this I have been number one on a [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► list of complainers on this show at [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► least the assumption that we've all been [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► making is that Apple is being run really [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► just by the numbers by Tim Cook and that [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► you know it is this fairly small product [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► line that is you know something like one [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► percent of mac sales was just not enough [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► of a blip on the radar for Tim Cook to [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► care about updating ever again that is [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► how it seemed until this morning to to [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► all of us Mac Pro users and that has [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► manifested itself with a number of side [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► effects one of which which I think might [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► have contributed to Apple finally you [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► know getting into gear on on doing an [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► update here is that when the macbook pro [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► was updated last fall the 2016 macbook [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► pro with the touch bar and everything [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► else it was clearly not as well received [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► as Apple thought it would be there was [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► quite a lot of outcry and part of that [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► is because of legitimate downsides of [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► that product part that's temporary part [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► of it won't be temporary but I think a [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► big part of the of the angst over the [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► 2016 macbook pro is also that pros had [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► been neglected on the desktop for so [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► long that they're not only were they [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► kind of already mad [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► Apple not serving their needs but it [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► sure looked like they were going to have [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► to now wedge their needs into these [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► other products that weren't very good at [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► serving them and so I if I had to guess [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► it was during the 2016 macbook pro [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► launch with all this kickback that Apple [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► finally decided to go ahead with the new [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► Mac Pro project you know Craig federighi [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► made some comments during these [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► interviews that it was it's been longer [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► than six months they've been working on [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► it but that doesn't mean it had it had [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► the green light to go ahead as a product [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► for more than six months I don't think [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► it was long as much they've been working [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► on it was they were trying this [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► roundtable was a bunch of journalists [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► right so the journalists are asking [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► questions and one of the big questions [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► that everyone wants to know is you know [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► we we out here in the community who are [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► interested in the mac pro have been [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► upset about it for a long long time how [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► how did it come to pass that so much [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► time elapsed between the 2013 mac pro [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► and now and there was nothing literally [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► no updates no price changes no [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► announcement or anything and then just [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► now you call a roundtable so everyone [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► want to know the timeline how long ago [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► did you decide that this is the thing [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► you were going to do and they didn't [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► like well it's not like there's anyone [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► decision or one meeting and each of us [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► went through her own journey of like [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► deciding what was a quick video so we [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► went through like denial and acceptance [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► so I can imagine there are people like [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► well-made like the denial thing would be [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► like well the new Mac Pro was weird and [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► all and people complain but I bet if we [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► just leave it out there people will come [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► to accept it as the new way then pro [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► hardware is going to work on the desktop [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► and then eventually have to say you know [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► looks like they're not really accepting [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► it and so the six-month things seemed to [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► be more of a timeline of like when when [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► did you come to this realization they [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► never actually answered how did you go [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► so many years with like basically your [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► heads in the sand right because that's [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► why I mean just two shows ago I was [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► asking us all if we had consensus that [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► basically there's not going to be [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► another new mac pro this is just going [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► to be an imac pro which by the way there [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► will be and they talked about it you [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► know basically an imac bent towards pro [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► people because look if there was going [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► to be a new mac pro they wouldn't have [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► left this one there for like four years [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► with no update [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► right like surely they wouldn't do that [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► just yet with no no communication or [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► whatever and it's like the certain point [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► they're communicating to you by saying [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► we update the imac you know we we don't [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► but drop dropping the the apple monitor [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► and sort of back-channel communicating [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► to some journalists somewhere that hey [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► apples not doing monitors anymore and [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► offering the LG one that's another big [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► sign like the imac it's it's the future [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► right and so we were just all like we [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► were in the acceptance phase or at least [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► i was like well you know no more mac [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► pro's and we all we all want to know [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► that because we all come wanna like be [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► you know vengeful and say how could you [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► have made this mistake because on one [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► hand we're all ecstatic that the [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► announcement they made was not hey by [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► the way we just want to let you know [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► we're not making the mac pro anymore [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► like we want to make it official that [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► could have been what they said at this [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► meeting they this meeting could have [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► also been you know where we've just were [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► just given up on the mac like they're [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► the most pessimistic ideas of what could [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► it mean to go to a mac roundtable and [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► ominous sounding mac round table if you [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► were accepting there was going to be no [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► mac pro could have been like terrible [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► bad news instead it was good news but [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► the good news is just immediately makes [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► you ask the question what well what took [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► you so long like and that's the question [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► that you know when when did you figure [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► it out like what was your plan before [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► six months ago what what were you doing [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► like what another year guys this this [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► current mac pro that we never update [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► will will will you know it's gonna set [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► the world on fire just wait yeah right [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► I'm so they didn't they're not going to [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► go into like you know their deliberation [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► process and discuss you know is they [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► don't realize stuff but they did go into [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► a couple of aspects of like why why is [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► the current trashcan why didn't you ever [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► update it and so Craig federighi had [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► said this is a quote from him I think we [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► designed ourselves into a bit of a [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► thermal corner and there he was talking [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► about the design of the trash can which [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► is a big cylinder and inside the [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► cylinder is kind of like three boards [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► three vertical boards that make a [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► triangle shape if you're looking down on [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► top of it two of them are GPUs and one [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► of them is the CPU board he was saying [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► that that this is quoting from my pants [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► Reno's argyll the unique triangular [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► design of the Mac Pro thermal core [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► provided proved to be the limiting [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► factor it wasn't built to have for one [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► of the three sides of the triangle to [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► get super hot so if they if they want to [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► have a really hot GPU on one side [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► and then cooler parts are supposed to be [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► like equal distribution of heat from the [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► two mid-range you know mid heat GPUs and [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► the CPU on the other side but basically [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► I think the problem is the little [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► cylinder with the one fan on top there [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► were just not enough cooling capacity [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► unless you probably crank that fan up to [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► the point where they didn't like it that [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► but the story they gave was we they [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► couldn't update it like they the faster [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► GPUs they could have put in there it [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► couldn't handle a thermal load maybe [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► even also the CPUs and federighi also [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► emphasized that this wasn't like someone [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► had an idea to make a trashcan shaped [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► computer and then they just put all [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► their marbles in that basket that thing [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► missing is another quote from federica [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► federighi we didn't start with shape and [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► say well here's the fastest machine we [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► can put in that box we actually started [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► with a target for performance and came [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► up with what we think was a very clever [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► design for that thermal core thermal [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► architecture so they they had a target [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► of like two GPUs with lots of cores and [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► one cpu and then they tried to figure [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► out which again you could say this was [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► their one of their mistakes what is the [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► smallest quietest thing we can get it [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► and they emphasize that in the 2013 Mac [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► Pro lunch look how much smaller this [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► trashcan mac pro is than the giant [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► cheese grater I remember when they put [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► up the image of the two things next to [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► each other the cake it was like it was [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► like what what is that an airport hub [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► next to and I felt like no that's the [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► new Mac Pro it seemed impossibly small [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► compared to the size of the cheese [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► grater and they did they made like [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► packaging wise it is super quiet and [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► super small compared to a at our [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► computer and of course you know the [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► sacrifice all the internal storage and [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► all the other stuff but that basically [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► by making that design and all the [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► tooling and all that fancy factory in [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► the u.s. that makes all this stuff and [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► you know all the money they put into [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► that the story they gave was that [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► basically they couldn't update it [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► because none of the better stuff that [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► they could fit in there could be cooled [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► inside that case so they had to design a [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► new one but they didn't they just say I [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► don't know what they did just sat on [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► their hands for several years mulling [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► over what to do all the while continuing [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► to sell that thing until he finally came [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► to this realization so I don't you know [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► again we have to wait for people to [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► retire and give the tell-all books but [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► something went wrong inside apples were [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► saying so they go wrong but with the mac [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► pro because it is [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► not a good look to sell the same [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► computer for the same price for so many [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► years and it's also not a good look to [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► only realize your mistake many many many [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► years later way way too late so late in [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► fact that you are forced to do a thing [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► that Apple never ever does which is call [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► bunch of journalists together and tell [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► them about computer you're going to [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► release in the next year like not got [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► this calendar year like hey let me tell [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► you about something it's not released [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► yet we can't even show you a picture of [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► it and be it's not going to be released [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► this year they also by the way didn't [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► say as far as an able to determine that [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► it's going to be released next year all [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► they said is not this year and [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► everybody's like oh that totally means [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► next year probably does but they're [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► covering their bases and so that means [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► that says to me that they decided very [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► very very recently on the serve the no [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► go no go on the mac pro because if they [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► had come and said guys we just want to [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► tell you there's not going to be another [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► mac pro that would make perfect sense [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► because it's like well we debated for a [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► long time while we debated we kept [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► selling this thing but in the end where [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► you know is down the toilet download [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► over to the trash can no more mac pro's [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► the imac is the future we just want to [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► let you know and let's talk about it and [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► love this explain to why we think pros [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► can use this other stuff or whatever [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► because at least that would make sense [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► for the trajectory instead they hemmed [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► it hard for four years realize the error [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► of their ways which is good but realized [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► it's so late that they have nothing to [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► say to us except we will we will make [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► good and i'm glad they what course i'm [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► glad that they're they're going to do [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► this to love to mac pro i'm glad they [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► went into specifics instead of saying [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► we're going to make new pro hardware [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► they went into specifics by saying this [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► new pro hardware will be modular in [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► their parlance there will be a separate [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► monitor and a separate computer so it's [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► not going to be like oh there's going to [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► be an awesome i like you like no dope [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► they said that is a separate thing we [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► are going to do a new or imac with fancy [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► of stuff that pros my like but also [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► there's this thing which is modular and [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► we're going to make our own displays [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► which so recently they seem to be moving [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► away from and i guess because they want [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► me not to wake in the middle of the [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► night and tremble in fear of having to [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► get a non apple monitor they're going to [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► make an apple monitor [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► the final point they made is whatever [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► this design is which they can go into [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► details about we're going to make sure [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► the with this design we can ink we can [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► upgrade the internals on on some kind of [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► schedule other than never ever upgrading [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► them right so those are the few bits of [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► information they gave about this I get [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► the impression that the same brief that [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► they gave these journalist was given to [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► apples newly formed team not too long [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► ago say we need a mac pro needs to be [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► modular we need new apple monitor and we [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► don't want the same thing that happened [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► with the trash can to happen with us we [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► need the internals to be upgradable on a [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► reasonable schedule all that is music to [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► my ears because those are all the things [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► I want to hear like the only thing they [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► could have said more was like we're [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► going to have multiple internal drives [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► and multiple internal slots they didn't [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► say that and I doubt they will do that [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► but that's the only other thing that I [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► could have even asked for my wildest [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► dreams so I am very very happy but also [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► very disappointed in Apple because they [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► know what they did they dun goofed yeah [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► they they did not do well on this old [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► Mac Pro thing I'm glad I'm glad they [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► came well you know I they messed up like [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► they even said themselves they [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► apologized they said sorry when does [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► Apple ever do that because it's not a [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► coherent thing like it would be coherent [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► if they said we slowly phase out the mac [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► pro and it disappeared and let me tell [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► you why we're not going to be in that [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► business I'm your butt to neglect the [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► mac pro like that and then have a change [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► of heart at the very last minute [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► certainly better from my perspective not [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► having a change of heart that's not good [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► for the company it's not good for the [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► image not good for the pros it's not [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► good for Apple that they have to [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► pre-announce this product which is not a [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► comfortable position for Apple to be in [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► so this was this was kind of a of Apple [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► being humble and coming hat in hand and [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► saying we're sorry we mess up this Mac [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► Pro thing let us make it up to you by [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► doing all the good things for you and [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► that's why everybody's happy because you [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► know happy and also curious about Warren [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► long but but happy to see that the [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► result we all wanted is the result we're [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► going to get if we just wait a little [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► bit longer [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► we respond to this week by Casper an [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► obsessively engineered mattress at a [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► shockingly fair price go to Casper calm [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► / ATP and use code ATP for fifty dollars [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► towards your mattress Casper created one [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► perfect mattress sold directly to [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► consumers eliminating Commission driven [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► inflated prices the award-winning Casper [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► mattress was developed in house with a [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► sleek design and delivered in a [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► remarkably small box you can get it up [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► narrow stairs and now in addition to the [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► mattress Casper also offers an adaptive [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► pillow and soft breathable sheets the [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► mattress industry has so long forced [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► customers into paying incredibly high [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► markups and doing all sorts of crappy [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► sales tricks Casper is revolutionising [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► the industry by cutting the class of [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► dealing with all these mattress stores [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► and past net savings directly on to you [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► an in-house team of engineer spent [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► thousands of hours developing the [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► catcher mattress with supportive memory [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► foam for a sleep surface that has just [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► the right sink and just the right bounce [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► and the breathable design sleep school [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► to help you regulate your temperature [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► throughout the night and you might think [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► buying a mattress online sounds crazy [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► but Casper has made it completely easy [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► and risk-free they have a free delivery [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► of course and free returns and you can [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► sleep on it for a hundred Knights to [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► decide whether you want to keep it or [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► return it a hundred night home trial if [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► you don't love after a hundred nights [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► they will arrange for it to be picked up [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► at your house and give you a full refund [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► Casper understands the importance of [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► truly sleeping on a mattress before you [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► commit to spending a third of your life [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► on it we've heard so many things from [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► our friends and listeners who love the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► cats or mattress it has gotten Awards [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► gotten great reviews see for yourself [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► you'll see if you look around it people [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► love this thing it's a great mattress [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► get yours today and try it for a hundred [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► nights in your own home free delivery [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► and free returns with home pick up all [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► this completely risk-free go to casper [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► calm / ATP and use code ATP for fifty [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► dollars towards your mattress terms and [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► conditions do apply thank you very much [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► to cash for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► so here's the thing like on the whole I [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► agree with you and even as someone who [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► sitting here now doesn't foresee ever [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► buying a mac pro I'm excited about this [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► I really am like I joked a lot on [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► Twitter about oh god this episode's [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► gonna be terrible but no I'm actually [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► excited to talk about it because this [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► this is good for everyone when Apple [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► commits to the the professional market [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► it's good for me as buy some definition [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► a professional because I think they [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► actually cited Xcode is one of the apps [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► they consider to be a professional app [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► and one of the apps they look for in [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► there like analytics to see who is a [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► professional and who isn't but anyway I [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► I definitely unequivocally think that [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► this was way way way too late but I [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► don't know a lot of people on Twitter [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► we're jumping straight to like Oh Apple [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► is just you know they weren't doing [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► anything until yesterday and then they [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► finally decided to do something and I [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► know I think it's unfair for us to [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► assume how long it takes to build an [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► entire new computer with an entirely new [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► design from the ground up like I agree [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► that they should have started on this a [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► while ago I agree that we should never [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► have gotten to this point but I think [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► it's a bit presumptuous for us to just [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► assume they can go to some parts bin [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► somewhere throw a few things together [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► and call it good I think that were [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► perhaps assuming the worst where it may [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► not be necessary this should have [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► absolutely happened at least a year ago [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► if not two but it doesn't mean that they [TS]

00:33:03 ◼   ► didn't start work on it a year ago if [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► not to what if they just didn't feel [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► compelled to tell us about it until now [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► because a bunch of whiners like those [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► guys on ATP god what a bunch of whiners [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► the three of em are what if a bunch of [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► whiners just got to the point that they [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► felt like they needed to address it once [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► and for all now I you know where that we [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► think the decision was made to do [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► something different but it's got to be [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► pretty recent I mean just use the LG [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► monitor as an example the monitor for [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► most people as a sideshow here for me [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► it's like the main show because I can [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► tell you that [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► if they if they had said we're gonna [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► make a new mac pro but we're still not [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► making apple monitors I would still be [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► like maybe I'll get an imac right that's [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► just me personally right but very [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► recently as recently as one was it like [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► october i don't know whenever they they [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► came out with the the the new MacBook [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► Pros with the LG display right and they [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► talked to the press about it and the [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► press would ask them so you know should [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► we get an apple monitor River like no we [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► this this LG monitor is the one we want [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► it's on our store we're fully behind it [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► so on and so forth and then through [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► back-channel communication to someone on [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► Twitter to say basically apples out of [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► stand-alone display business this is [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► recent stuff if as you suggest in case [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► you that perhaps they've been working on [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► this new Mac Pro for over a year there's [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► no way they would have told everybody [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► that Apple's out of the standalone [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► display business through whatever back [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► channels they did maybe they still would [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► have said by the lg1 anyway because the [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► new apple honor isn't coming up for a [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► long time but yeah there are long lead [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► times these things uh but not it doesn't [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► take three years to make a monitor right [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► like time was when Apple would make new [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► products every year and yeah they have [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► overlapping schedules and stuff like [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► that which by the way is why i think the [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► time that Apple needs to start making [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► the next trash can is before the [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► previous one is released like that's [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► usually how these things overlap like [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► that the new iphone is in the works at [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► the time the current iphone is released [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► that's the only way you could have [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► usually releases of anything right so [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► it's not as if you can release the trash [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► can right and 20 late 2013 and then [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► after the trash cans really start [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► working on the next one you're already [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► late at that point let alone release the [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► trash can wait a year or two and then [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► start working on the successor that's [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► just too long if you're one of the [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► things that the commitments of the pro [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► market and it's what they talked about [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► is you have to have some product that [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► you can update because the whole point [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► of this product is the biggest fastest [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► computer apple sells and if you don't [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► update it eventually your phone has [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► faster single threaded performance than [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► that they handle me like in the most [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► extreme case you you have to update it's [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► the role of this computer the only [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► reason it exists is to be the biggest [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► fastest thing as soon as it's not big as [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► fast as people like well why am i buying [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► this why don't I buy a 13-inch laptop [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► that has a better cpu speed or faster [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► d or has you know Thunderbolt 3 and this [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► top end thing doesn't like it loses its [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► purpose without updates so they were [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► super duper late and it seems to me that [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► if they can't even promise a 20-18 [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► release of this thing they started [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► sometime you know in in the past year [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► alright easily you may maybe in the past [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► six months because is it it's not like [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► the thing we're asking about when did [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► they make the call when did they make [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► the decision because they seem to make [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► no decision for really really long time [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► and then they made a decision and part [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► of that decision was given that we made [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► this decision look at our timelines when [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► will we actually be able to show a [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► product it will hurt us a lot to just do [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► the normal apple thing which is not tell [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► anybody until the product comes out [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► because by then everyone will completely [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► a written off Apple as a pro hardware [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► vendor so we need to make the decision [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► and then the even harder decision we're [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► just now we have to tell people we have [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► to tell people that we kind of started [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► this new project because if we don't by [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► the time we release it they'll all be [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► gone they all will have left the block [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► hey guys we have a new Mac Pro we didn't [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► wanna tell you about it for the past [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► year and a half that we've been [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► developing it but we totally have a new [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► one it's like too late we all left you [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► neglected us right so they had to come [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► out and tell us that at some point in [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► the future defined as not this year [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► there will be a new Mac Pro which was [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► the right thing to do but it is it is a [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► is them coming from a position of [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► weakness and it makes me think that this [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► decision was not made and that the team [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► to make this new Mac Pro was not tasked [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► with doing so any time longer than maybe [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► like 12 months ago and I would guess [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► maybe six months ago yeah I would say [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► that's because like you know we we know [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► from various like tips and rumblings [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► here and there that like there were [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► occasional efforts in Apple to [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► investigate news eons and stuff but that [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► there was never any suggestion by [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► anybody any rumors any tipsters anybody [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► that that was actually becoming a [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► product for you know it anywhere close [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► to a product I really do think that this [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► probably became a priority six months [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► ago and that's how they determined by [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► the way that's how they determine [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► probably their thermal limits like they [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► have the cylinder and we kept hearing [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► rumors from all sorts of weird sources [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► like I looking at this chip all looking [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► at that chip but look at this GP [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► like maybe they tried all sorts of like [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► component upgrades the trash can and [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► every time they tried it it was either [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► not a big enough win or they couldn't [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► deal with the thermals right and it was [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► just kind of like well do we want to [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► bother through going through with this [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► should we make it a product maybe wait [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► for next year maybe it'll be better we [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► have this prop like federighi federighi [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► explanation is basically like they [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► couldn't put better stuff in that [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► cylinder did they you know they had [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► designed ourselves into a bit of a [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► thermal corner and the fact that they [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► continued to try to tinker with that [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► every time there was a new cpu or GPU [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► but never actually released anything [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► fits with that idea that it wasn't like [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► they were you know opposed to making new [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► Mac Pro's is they couldn't make new [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► macro that a major investment and they [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► come back and say okay well we can't put [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► new stuff in the cylinder sorry about [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► that oops can we make a whole totally [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► new Mac Pro and then it was like well [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► that seems like expensive and not a lot [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► of people buy this and they just kept [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► doing that and doing that and you know [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► externally we see nothing we just you [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► know we have the same mac pro as always [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► in just a bunch of you know rumors and [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► eventually has to come to head say look [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► are we in this business are we not in [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► this business in the decision they made [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► which I'm very happy with this yes we [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► are in this business we're going to [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► rededicate ourselves and we're not going [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► to make the same mistake twice nobody [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► pokes new mac pro in a corner in a [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► thermal corner that's like that since [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► acknowledged yeah reference that [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► knowledge so boy it's I would not want [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► to been in these meetings but I am so [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► glad so glad they they made I can't even [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► say it's the right decision I don't know [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► if it's the right decision for ample but [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► its decision that I wanted actually yes [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► I think it is the right decision travel [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► because if Apple's not going to be in [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► the Pro market then what the hell's the [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► point of Apple like we're just going to [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► be a phone company I think that's not [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► that's not the Apple we all believe in [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► and it's clearly not the apple of it all [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► the people who come to these meetings [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► and profess undying love for the Mac [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► believe in either well and I think it's [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► it's more than that it's that like if [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► Apple decides that iOS is the only OS [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► and their future then that's one thing [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► but if the mac as a platform is going to [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► continue they need to keep building pro [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► hardware yeah I mean but but is the imac [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► pro enough and i think we'll talk about [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► later but the one thing that that [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► strikes me about this late I suspect you [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► guys are right and that it was very [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► recent him in the last 12 months or so [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► that that Apple got really serious about [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► replacing the mac pro but it seems a [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► little disingenuous to me for us to say [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► Oh surely they have mac OS running on [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► arm you know surely they're doing that [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► why would they not I mean I I know [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► hardware is different but don't you [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► think they would have been doing more [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► than just piddling with a a new mac pro [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► for all this time maybe there were only [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► a handful of people on it maybe they [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► weren't taking it too seriously but if I [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► feel like why wouldn't you at least have [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► that in the hopper just in case now to [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► your point a minute ago both of you [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► maybe that didn't start until like two [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► years ago or one year ago or what have [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► you but I feel laughs a year ago well [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► and that's not going to be not going to [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► be two years ago they would be they [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► would be done by now those two years [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► especially since this like in the I know [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► so here's the thing there's attention [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► with that bowl between make an amazing [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► new thing which I think traffic and [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► qualifies out like you haven't seen a PC [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► like this before look at this thing [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► isn't it weird and crazy and awesome [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► like they want to do that but then [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► there's schedule pressure so as many [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► people pointed out they can make a [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► rectangular box with nice finishes on it [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► shove a bunch of crap in and be done but [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► they don't want to do that so they're [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► going to take longer than it would take [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► to just slap together some basically a [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► pc that runs mac OS right the question [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► is how much longer will he take and if [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► they had started two years ago even with [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► the most obsessive you know a paul [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► craftsmanship they could they could have [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► had something to show today right so [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► that makes me think again they had to [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► have started this in the last calendar [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► year at you know that's the longest i'm [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► going to say this goes back and probably [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► even closer yeah and so i think it's [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► also worth kind of putting the 2013 [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► trash can in context a little bit to [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► figure out like why they still care and [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► and maybe what they can do to avoid [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► another problem like this so in addition [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► to the reasons that that John always [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► likes to say about like you know the [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► halo car knowledge intervals which I [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► agree with so it actually sells better [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► than I thought thanks so one of the [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► things that came out in this meeting [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► what they said that desktops are twenty [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► percent [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► of mac sales which that alone is higher [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► than I would have guessed you know [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► laptops are most people's computers [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► these days so the fact that desktops [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► still have twenty percent is pretty good [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► I think they said that met the Mac Pro [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► is in the low single-digit percentage of [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► those mac sales if that's one percent [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► which is the lowest that their estimate [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► would really mean that is about 200,000 [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► mac / as a year now that i think is like [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► one percent of mac sales and two hundred [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► i think that's actually really good for [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► because that's not the sales of the mac [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► pro in its launch year when it's updated [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► that's the sales of the mac pro now like [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► this three year old like lame duck [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► machine like that's the sales of that [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► now so i think it's remarkable that it [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► still sells that well i didn't that says [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► that the the market for these things is [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► probably bigger than a lot of us were [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► were and were estimating because if this [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► machine that's three years old and [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► wasn't even that compelling when it was [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► new very free talking to in a second if [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► that can still sell 200,000 units a year [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► that's amazing italy and so i decided to [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► look up a couple stats i did some [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► homework that is reflect that that is [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► roughly equivalent i translated this [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► into term to understand kc to the sales [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► volume of the BMW x5 so well done yeah [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► that's roughly what the x5 cells every [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► year worldwide and that's a fairly [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► popular model in their lineup so the [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► fact that like you know that a car cans [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► and oh and by the way it's also double [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► the total sales volume of Tesla so like [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► you know if if it's selling in this kind [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► of volume if like a car company can [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► justify having a car an entire car model [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► with all the customization that goes [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► into that and supporting everything else [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► Apple can justify having a machine that [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► only sells to this relatively small [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► audience for you know compared to their [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► whole product line well but what's the [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► profit off of each of these devices Leo [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► the profit off of an x5 one would hope [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► would be many many many thousands of [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► dollars what's the profit off of a [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► trashcan Mac Pro oh no I mean no [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► questions the the raw alone actually I [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► wouldn't assume that the [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► it's our that massive on cars maybe Im [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► lugged your cars especially if you get [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► like the floor mats but I think they're [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► the costs of developing a new mac pro [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► line especially if it's kind of [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► reasonably done are probably low enough [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► compared to developing a whole car you [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► know that I think that's they're [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► probably they're probably okay there but [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► anyway I did want to briefly go into [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► exactly what went wrong with 2013 mac [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► pro 2 so that we can kind so that we and [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► as commentators and hopefully if anybody [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► at Apple is listening I assume you know [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► they're all smart people they're [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► considering these things too but I just [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► want to say it just in case because I [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► think there's important lessons to learn [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► here and I really hope they have learned [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► them so quick summary when the 2013 came [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► out it costs more than the previous [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► model but it accommodated fewer people's [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► needs and so that'll even when it was [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► brand-new that on day one once all the [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► configs and pricing were up a lot of [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► people did not like it very much and a [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► lot of pro said oh never mind because it [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► was so much more limited than the [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► previous ones and it gave up all the [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► drive bays all the slots a lot of the [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► RAM expansion capabilities GPU replace [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► ability GPU options CP dual cpu dual [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► socket options like there was so so much [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► stuff that was given up so it really did [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► a lot less and it cost more and so [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► that's like whatever Apple does next [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► they have to learn a lesson from that [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► wasn't they choose to follow it or not [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► that's something to learn also it also [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► suffered from just kind of bad market [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► timing relative to the rest of the [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► industry so almost immediately the 5k [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► screen right you know revolution [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► happened it was like it was like nine [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► months into the mac pro when when 5k [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► screens came out in the imac and the Mac [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► Pro has no good way to drive a 5k screen [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► and an apple doesn't sell one step ahead [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► and and when they did finally get around [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► to launching one last fall it doesn't [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► work with 2013 mac pro at least i think [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► we keep hearing random hacks about how [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► it the stores are kind of hacking it to [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► work but basically it doesn't work and [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► so it missed the 5k revolution by a very [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► short time [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► and a lot of pros like myself [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► prioritized having that Retina screen [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► over having those additional cores and [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► everything also right after that model [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► came out the next generation of [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► processors that Apple of course didn't [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► use increase single-threaded performance [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► noticeably and so what happened was [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► within a very short time of the Mac Pro [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► being released within about a year it [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► was unable to drive the best screens [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► that the highest end buyers wanted and [TS]

00:47:27 ◼   ► it was defeated in a lot of like [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► single-threaded performance tasks and a [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► lot of benchmarks it was it was there [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► beaten completely or in the case of like [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► the six core like it could it could [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► barely edged out in multi-threaded but [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► you know that wasn't all work so it was [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► it badly timed in the market and they [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► don't forget about us bc one more [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► revolution that has about the product [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► line USBC also came along and guess who [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► didn't get that then I felt like [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► terrible timing in terms of peripheral [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► like it wouldn't have been terrible [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► timing if it was on the yearly update [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► schedule be like Oh next year the Mac [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► Pro will get updated it will get the new [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► chips it will get us bc if we get [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 3 it will be able to drive a [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► 5k display that but but again the [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► thermal corner uh apparently they just [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► plain couldn't do that exactly and then [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► also by by limiting it to a single CPU [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► and dual GPU configuration you know they [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► were making a big bet that this is going [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► to be the future of pro computing [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► unfortunately it wasn't the present of [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► pro computing at the time and the the [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► future took a different direction and [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► and they were betting that just having [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► this one set of trade-offs this one cpu [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► to workstation GPUs that was going to [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► solve all pro needs or all needs of the [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► Mac Pro customers at least that was [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► wrong even in 2013 and it never became [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► correct you know they were betting big [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► on opencl and that really didn't pan out [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► beyond a very small number of [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► specialized uses and they were also they [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► never really supported it very well in [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► mac OS either and so i think another [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► lesson to learn here is that whatever [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► direction the Mac Pro takes it can't [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► rely on highly specialized OS features [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► very much because chances are it's never [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► going to have the [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► priority with an apple and the [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► engineering priority to devote a lot of [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► engineering time to optimizing the OS [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► for this machine that sells to one [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► percent of the user base like they're [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► never going to do that so it can't [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► depend on weird like you know edge case [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► technologies like opencl has turned out [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► to be you know if it can handle it well [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► that's one thing but that can't be the [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► main focus of the machine if they did do [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► a lot of OS changes to support the dual [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► GPUs because remember one of them was [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► like oh you can you could address them [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► individually and use one for compute and [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► one for graphics and they have that [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► whole demo of the 3d application that [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► Pixar was using so they they actually [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► added OSAP eyes to make it so that [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► people could write programs to take [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► advantage of this machine but the only [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► way anybody like any pro app vendor is [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► going to change their program to take [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► advantage of this new fancy hardware is [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► if doing so gives them some kind of [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► advantage like okay well this is weird [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► hardware and we you know but Apple gives [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► us API is and we can address these two [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► GPUs and control them and do interesting [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► things if we do this if we make this big [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► investment and rejigger our application [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► and use these new ApS what is the payoff [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► and if the payoff is performance that [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► still doesn't match a plain old windows [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► pc with a big stonking single GPU in it [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► well why would we do that why would we [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► spend all this time we're rewriting our [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► thing to get worse performance that we [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► get if we just leave our application [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► exactly the way it is and get you know a [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► geforce 1080 whatever the the [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► top-of-the-line thing was at the time [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► why don't you why would we bother doing [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► it so people didn't rewrite their [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► programs even though there were api's [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► and those api's themselves didn't get [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► expanded and supported and everything [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► because there was no one writing for [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► them so it was it was an ecosystem that [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► never materialized for hardware that was [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► never good enough to justify the [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► investment and very quickly became [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► embarrassingly not good enough as as you [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► mentioned as every other standard and [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► peripheral and the capability just [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► passed it by on even on Apple's on in [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► frequently updated machines right and [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► then and they also had execution flaws [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► even with this one model like the GP [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► like you know they're talking now about [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► how the thermals prevented them from [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► updating it very very well [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► the thermals were a problem then to it [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► this machine anybody who's ever owned [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► one of these or especially anybody who's [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► had to manage more than one of them like [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► certain you know developer studios or [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► visual effects places that have had [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► multiple 2013 Mac Pro's the GPUs die all [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► the time Apple's doing tons of warranty [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► replacements on those the only reason it [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► hasn't become like a big known scandal [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► or thing is because this is a you know [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► relatively unpopular product so not a [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► lot of people have them but anyone who [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► does have it knows that there's tons of [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► GPU overheating problems and they die [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► all the time and on top of that to make [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► a GPU focused machine that's that takes [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► us huge bet on GPUs be in the future and [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► then not updating it for three years [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► like GPUs change like every nine months [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► like it's it's a pretty fast moving part [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► of the hardware development so it was a [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► huge design flaw even then to design [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► something that could barely cool the [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► GPUs it had and then with not only [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► apparently no Headroom to cool future [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► ones but also to not update this machine [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► at all for three and a half years at [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► least and prop what's probably going to [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► end up being four and a half to five [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► that's a massive just error in just how [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► it was an execution flaw simple as that [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► I will say though like as much as I bag [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► in this machine like redesigning the [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► tower like the cheese grater typical pc [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► tower I mean it was more than tip it was [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► a really good one but redesigning the [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► tower in 2013 was a good idea and it [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► remains a good idea today they should [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► not just put new components in the old [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► cheese grater and ship that as the new [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► thing because there's lots of like old [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► baggage that is no longer necessary in [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► the pc tower so doing a design doing a [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► redesign is the right move it diggers [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► did the bitches didn't to the right one [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► like they chose a battery design they [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► went the wrong direction when they [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► admitted that yeah those like my blog [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► post back in before the new mac pro 2013 [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► begging for them to make a new Mac Pro [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► the case for new Mac Pro successor like [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► everything you said about the the trash [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► can I agree with and you know [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► was kind of you know you could have [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► predicted these mistakes at the time [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► because it didn't suit our needs but [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► like well maybe there's other audiences [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► for them it could have worked out but [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► either way to where they worked out it [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► didn't they made mistakes they were [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► there were a bad time with 5k displays [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► in the USBC and Thunderbolt 3 you can't [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► say that we make fun of the can innovate [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► anymore my ass the phil schiller thing [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► but that was mostly because they failed [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► to update it this was like an innovative [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► machine they tried something new and [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► bold and daring and they were trying to [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► make the best mac that there could be it [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► was so different from any other max if [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► they're ever had been before and there [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► have been since so different in so many [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► ways that I give them full marks for [TS]

00:54:21 ◼   ► doing what I asked him to do which is [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► try to do your best turns out this [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► wasn't a good idea but you can't say [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► they didn't try you can't say like and [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► again I would have you know been more [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► disappointed to say oh here's another [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► cheese grater right like because that's [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► not that's not really trying this is [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► kind of business as usual status quo [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► which is better than nothing but I I do [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► give them full marks for for introducing [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► it which is why even though I didn't buy [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► one I was very happy that it existed I [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► was pinning my hopes on okay they're [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► either going to keep updating this and [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► I'll buy the one that can drive the [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► retina display remember those days when [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► I was talking about that and same thing [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► for this new one in the same way it's [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► like well they could make some kind of [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► rectangular box and sell it and they [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► could get that out sooner I'm willing to [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► wait for them to try something [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► innovative they just need to make a [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► different set of trade-offs with this [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► design building on what they've learned [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► but I totally like the idea of them [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► because if they're just going to make a [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► box i know people want them to do that [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► just make me like a rectangular pc that [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► I can run mac OS on which i'm sure some [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► people would like but I I want more than [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► that from Apple I mean even even the [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► cheese grater is like you said market [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► it's not just at our case it is a really [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► cool really good really interesting [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► tower case that has many innovations [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► inside and out and turned out to be a [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► good design that they kept for a long [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► time just just do that again Apple [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► that's a hard just be successful all the [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► time yeah well liked and I think you [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► know looking back you as you said like [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► they did something you know as federighi [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► sevens interview he said we wanted to do [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► something bold and different with the [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► 2013 one and he said it's good for [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► but it does not address the full range [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► of Mac Pro customers and I think this is [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► the nut right here like Apple is really [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► good at being bold and different and [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► they pride themselves on that they they [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► really try to do that with with muck [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► with much of what they do the problem is [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► that if you only make bold and different [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► product line joyce's then the overall [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► product line will suffer because you [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► need general-purpose products to fill [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► the gaps and satisfy the most needs and [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► the Mac Pro the hole the purpose of this [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► machine is to serve a bunch of those [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► edge cases and you can't just make one [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► super focused design like this you know [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► one cpu 2 pro GPUs no slots nothing else [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► like you can't do that kind of like bold [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► and different design for this particular [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► product line because all of the [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► different edge cases that the Mac Pro [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► needs to satisfy are all different from [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► each other so no single narrow design [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► like this can satisfy them the old Mac [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► Pro cheese grater could be configured in [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► completely different ways for depending [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► on what the customer needed and there [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► was a huge range of what that could do [TS]

00:57:01 ◼   ► and that's the kind of flexibility this [TS]

00:57:03 ◼   ► product line needs Mac Pro buyers they [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► don't need cool and bold and different [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► they need versatile powerful and kept up [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► to date and it can be innovative to like [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► like the Yosemite case before Yosemite [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► was the name of an operating system it [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► was a code name for a tower case [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► designed by Apple that was like a tower [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► it's like a vertical rectangular solid [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► like but Apple did its thing hey ours [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► has handles on all four corners NRS has [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► a side panel that folds down and the [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► motherboard was on the side panel at [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► that point look how easy it is to open [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► this thing up and here's the ram mandir [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► is the GPU and you can change your hard [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► drives and they use that design for two [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► generations the g3 in the g4 and well [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► more if you can't like your drive door [TS]

00:57:44 ◼   ► and the wind tunnels and all the other [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► stuff and then came the cheese grater [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► with the power mac g5 still four handles [TS]

00:57:50 ◼   ► but a different design aluminum and look [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► how easy it is to slide the hard drives [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► in and out and there's a little panel [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► that comes off the side and look how [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► much room we have her fans and the [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► computer-controlled fans and all those [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► other stuff like both of those designs [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► were innovative and interesting but like [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► marker was saying they were they could [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► be there were [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► modular they could be configured to [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► different needs you could choose what [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► you wanted to put in them and make the [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► computer that you needed if instead they [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► had made an innovative like the g4 cube [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► is a good example like the g4 cube is [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► basically a trash can before its time [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► here's one computer with one specific [TS]

00:58:21 ◼   ► set of trade-offs and you can't change [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► those trade-offs at all and if it [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► doesn't suit your needs you're out of [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► luck the g4 cube did not do well in the [TS]

00:58:29 ◼   ► market despite being a cool cute little [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► computer to it you know to address the [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► pro market you either need to have a [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► bunch of different models each of which [TS]

00:58:38 ◼   ► satisfies a need or some kind of system [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► that you can configure to serve [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► different people's needs via they can [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► configure themselves with their party [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► things that they can configure on your [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► store by picking from pop-up menus how [TS]