The Accidental Tech Podcast

218: MagSafe Cups of Water


00:00:00   top of the morning to you oh yeah I was [TS]

00:00:06   not at all prepared for that the best [TS]

00:00:09   part about that is that that's the very [TS]

00:00:11   first time you've ever greeted anybody [TS]

00:00:14   on a skype call I think that's accurate [TS]

00:00:16   I really honestly I'm not sure that was [TS]

00:00:18   a greeting I guess like to go you're [TS]

00:00:20   right it is a greeting of a kind but not [TS]

00:00:23   meant that way so your beard are you is [TS]

00:00:26   your beard gone or what no this is my [TS]

00:00:30   fear I was like he's gonna get back and [TS]

00:00:31   he's still gonna have it you just don't [TS]

00:00:34   let it happen to you and it's a ficus [TS]

00:00:37   yes gonna determine whether oh no this [TS]

00:00:39   is a problem it's a big problem i have [TS]

00:00:44   started this morning in ireland the [TS]

00:00:47   conclusion of a wonderful trip to the OL [TS]

00:00:49   conference so I woke up this morning in [TS]

00:00:51   Dublin is now in the time zone that I [TS]

00:00:56   was supposed to be used to two in the [TS]

00:00:58   morning and and so we'll see how this [TS]

00:01:02   goes I never really shifted a hundred [TS]

00:01:06   percent to the new time zone so what has [TS]

00:01:08   really happened is now just time has [TS]

00:01:10   lost all meaning and I'm just always [TS]

00:01:12   tired but yet can't sleep so this should [TS]

00:01:15   be interesting delightful day I am [TS]

00:01:17   overjoyed that you are this tired with [TS]

00:01:19   respect because this means i have a [TS]

00:01:22   prayer of going to bed somewhere near my [TS]

00:01:25   normal bedtime because i figured about [TS]

00:01:27   an hour you're gonna be like a go and [TS]

00:01:30   then and then at this point it'll be [TS]

00:01:32   great now his piece he's punch-drunk now [TS]

00:01:34   he's gonna be all loopy he's gonna walk [TS]

00:01:36   even longer wait we're having a holiday [TS]

00:01:38   party I got to go I'll be right back [TS]

00:01:40   he's high on life I'm gonna go through [TS]

00:01:43   the same thing the Marcos going through [TS]

00:01:44   only realize I'm not going to come back [TS]

00:01:45   and do a podcast gonna come back and go [TS]

00:01:47   like to work yeah that's not fun I mean [TS]

00:01:50   technically this is work for all of us [TS]

00:01:52   me included except some of us have other [TS]

00:01:55   work alright let's let's start the show [TS]

00:01:59   as usual with some follow-up copyright [TS]

00:02:01   2011 John siracusa a PFS iOS app updates [TS]

00:02:05   have hit the App Store tell us about [TS]

00:02:07   this John everyone's telling us about [TS]

00:02:08   them they're say [TS]

00:02:09   hey guess what I downloaded the the [TS]

00:02:12   updated version of my few of my favorite [TS]

00:02:14   app and the top thing in the release [TS]

00:02:16   notes was fixed ApS filename issues we [TS]

00:02:19   have many many reports of many people [TS]

00:02:21   sending as many applications that [TS]

00:02:23   surprisingly feature a PFS in their [TS]

00:02:27   release notes so the update is happening [TS]

00:02:31   even though the update was seamless for [TS]

00:02:33   users for developers not exactly [TS]

00:02:35   actually I think I might have hit one of [TS]

00:02:38   these problems so in the recent version [TS]

00:02:41   of overcast that's in the store as of [TS]

00:02:43   late last week I had to remove support [TS]

00:02:47   for m4a chapters and I forget whether I [TS]

00:02:50   talked about on the show and I was done [TS]

00:02:51   talking about here now you just tweeted [TS]

00:02:53   about it that's right anyway so so for [TS]

00:02:56   AAC /em for a slash Moff john chapters i [TS]

00:02:59   had to remove support for them [TS]

00:03:02   temporarily at least until i can write [TS]

00:03:03   my own parser because the apple parser [TS]

00:03:05   kept crashing on some of the fun a lot [TS]

00:03:07   of the files that were that we're doing [TS]

00:03:09   and iOS you know there's no way as far [TS]

00:03:12   as I know there's no way for me to parse [TS]

00:03:14   metadata like in a separate process or [TS]

00:03:16   anything so that if it crashes my whole [TS]

00:03:18   app doesn't come down and I think it's [TS]

00:03:21   the crashes seemed to start around the [TS]

00:03:22   time to 10.3 beta started so it would [TS]

00:03:25   not surprise me if this was file system [TS]

00:03:26   related and the reason I had to do all [TS]

00:03:29   this it was kind of a crazy hack I'll [TS]

00:03:30   try to tell quickly basically when [TS]

00:03:32   overcast downloads its files it [TS]

00:03:35   downloads them with no extension it just [TS]

00:03:37   saves it as like you know a big ID [TS]

00:03:39   number with no file extension you know [TS]

00:03:41   mp3 or anything the metadata parser from [TS]

00:03:44   Apple and the API can only operate on a [TS]

00:03:47   file name or URL cannot operate a just [TS]

00:03:49   account on a data blob so it knows about [TS]

00:03:51   the file name and if that file name does [TS]

00:03:53   not end in dot AAC or thought I m4a it [TS]

00:03:57   doesn't work right but only for those [TS]

00:04:00   files and if it's an mp3 needs to end in [TS]

00:04:02   that to work right and so they the [TS]

00:04:06   solution i came up with was when oh and [TS]

00:04:09   also I don't always have the whole file [TS]

00:04:10   sometimes I'm streaming the file and so [TS]

00:04:13   I have to just write out like the bid I [TS]

00:04:16   have to a temp file and then read the [TS]

00:04:18   metadata from it and then read and [TS]

00:04:20   delete the temp file and [TS]

00:04:21   then to get around the extension issue [TS]

00:04:23   when i'm reading the metadata from an [TS]

00:04:26   m4a file i create a symlink to it with a [TS]

00:04:29   dot m4a extension read the file name [TS]

00:04:32   read the data off of that and then [TS]

00:04:33   delete the symlink and it was at those [TS]

00:04:36   parts that i was getting a lot of [TS]

00:04:37   crashes all of a sudden in 10 3 so [TS]

00:04:40   something's up with the way my app and [TS]

00:04:43   or the metadata parsing library we in [TS]

00:04:46   iOS deals with me creating these [TS]

00:04:49   symlinks or writing these little tiny [TS]

00:04:51   temp files to don't actually include the [TS]

00:04:53   whole file and it was causing the whole [TS]

00:04:54   thing to crash sometimes so I [TS]

00:04:56   temporarily remove that support and left [TS]

00:04:58   in only my own ID 3.mp3 parser which [TS]

00:05:02   supports mp3 chapters which is what this [TS]

00:05:03   show uses because that I could do all in [TS]

00:05:06   memory with my own safe routines but at [TS]

00:05:09   some point I have to figure out how to [TS]

00:05:11   re-implement support for AAC chapters [TS]

00:05:14   and for the lack of them I apologize to [TS]

00:05:17   the entire nation of Germany and I I'm [TS]

00:05:20   hopefully hoping to get that done [TS]

00:05:21   quickly but right now that's there's a [TS]

00:05:24   big problem with that and I think it [TS]

00:05:25   actually might be related to some bug's [TS]

00:05:27   somewhere whether it's minor apples I'm [TS]

00:05:29   not sure regarding the file system [TS]

00:05:32   because it did not happen before 10 3 [TS]

00:05:34   why don't you try switching from some [TS]

00:05:36   links to our links and see if that just [TS]

00:05:37   magically fixes it well I was thinking [TS]

00:05:40   that that's I'm not sure I want to even [TS]

00:05:41   still be dealing with links i think the [TS]

00:05:43   the better long-term wealth the longest [TS]

00:05:47   term fix is to write my own parser but [TS]

00:05:49   the the problem is when i get in too far [TS]

00:05:51   into this again the the AAC chapters [TS]

00:05:55   format is completely undocumented and [TS]

00:05:58   proprietary to Apple there you can I've [TS]

00:06:01   tried to figure it out on numerous times [TS]

00:06:03   in numerous occasions in the past and [TS]

00:06:04   I've gotten most of it but it's really [TS]

00:06:09   really tricky and really undocumented [TS]

00:06:11   and it like the end of the bits of data [TS]

00:06:14   that you need are all over the file they [TS]

00:06:16   aren't even all up front like there's [TS]

00:06:17   interspersed throughout the entire file [TS]

00:06:19   because there it's it's structured in [TS]

00:06:22   such a way that like as it's playing a [TS]

00:06:25   track like if it's playing a stream of a [TS]

00:06:27   track like if if say the chapter changes [TS]

00:06:29   and the chapter includes a URL at an [TS]

00:06:31   image then the URL and image are like [TS]

00:06:34   splice [TS]

00:06:35   into the stream at that point in the [TS]

00:06:37   audio data so it might not like what so [TS]

00:06:40   you can't so exactly this is why this [TS]

00:06:42   format sucks so you can't even and out [TS]

00:06:44   that same like splicing format also [TS]

00:06:48   applies to the titles of the chapters so [TS]

00:06:50   you cannot build a table of contents [TS]

00:06:52   reliably from an AAC chapter file unless [TS]

00:06:54   you have the whole file because you have [TS]

00:06:57   to skip through the whole thing to get [TS]

00:06:58   all the titles out that's bananas yes I [TS]

00:07:00   know it's a huge pain in the mp3 chapter [TS]

00:07:04   4 chapter format it's based on id3 tags [TS]

00:07:06   which are very very crude but very very [TS]

00:07:09   simple to deal with and they have a lot [TS]

00:07:11   of limitations it's very similar to like [TS]

00:07:13   our SS vs atom feed formats like back in [TS]

00:07:16   the day like RSS is really simple and [TS]

00:07:19   hence the name but you know it had it [TS]

00:07:22   had some limitations and Adam was [TS]

00:07:24   designed to like be everything to [TS]

00:07:26   everybody and as a result it's overly [TS]

00:07:28   complicated and a huge pain in the butt [TS]

00:07:30   and that's that's kind of mp3 versus the [TS]

00:07:33   mob format which is what AC and I'm for [TS]

00:07:36   a that's that's all just renaming [TS]

00:07:37   reading versions of the mouth format [TS]

00:07:39   basically asterisk but basically once [TS]

00:07:41   again humans he's trying to say move he [TS]

00:07:43   means a file that ends in da mov just [TS]

00:07:45   just so you're not like wasn't even [TS]

00:07:47   saying because I know that's happening [TS]

00:07:48   that's a color isn't that my mom has the [TS]

00:07:50   ross ram yeah wow yeah so anyway that's [TS]

00:07:54   a that is my possible a PFS bug and [TS]

00:07:57   overcast and also why anybody listening [TS]

00:08:00   why your chapters in mob format podcast [TS]

00:08:03   might have stopped working in the recent [TS]

00:08:04   update yeah that doesn't sound like an a [TS]

00:08:06   PFS thing but who knows it is a new file [TS]

00:08:08   system and if it is related to like it's [TS]

00:08:10   not it's not the kind that people are [TS]

00:08:11   talking about in the release notes cuz [TS]

00:08:12   they're all talking about encoding [TS]

00:08:13   filename encoding issues but I'm [TS]

00:08:14   assuming when you make these temp files [TS]

00:08:15   you're making able to ASCII file name so [TS]

00:08:17   it's totally not an issue here yeah it's [TS]

00:08:18   like like the file name is like is the [TS]

00:08:19   ID number of the of the file dot m4a now [TS]

00:08:22   and so the other possible quick solution [TS]

00:08:25   if I want to do just a quick solution [TS]

00:08:26   just save all the files as dot m4a even [TS]

00:08:29   when they're not and like and just you [TS]

00:08:31   know have a migration that runs on the [TS]

00:08:33   first launch of the new version that [TS]

00:08:34   just renamed them all and just doesn't [TS]

00:08:36   do any kind of hard linking or simply [TS]

00:08:37   can just permanently leave them as those [TS]

00:08:39   names but then that will break the mp3 [TS]

00:08:41   file decode or sometimes under certain [TS]

00:08:43   conditions so it's like it and and the [TS]

00:08:46   m4a / AC / mob / move [TS]

00:08:49   are all like that format is last time I [TS]

00:08:53   checked it was like less than five [TS]

00:08:54   percent of all items in the iTunes [TS]

00:08:57   directory I'm so so it's like I think I [TS]

00:08:59   think you mean the Apple podcast [TS]

00:09:01   directory oh god you're right it's been [TS]

00:09:02   like two hours all right so yeah in the [TS]

00:09:05   in the Apple podcast directory the vast [TS]

00:09:08   majority well over ninety percent the [TS]

00:09:10   format is mp3 so to do a whole bunch of [TS]

00:09:13   work to accommodate AAC files in a [TS]

00:09:15   special way especially chapter eyes ones [TS]

00:09:17   it's a we're talking a very small number [TS]

00:09:19   of podcast I'm guessing off the top of [TS]

00:09:20   my head the total number of podcasts [TS]

00:09:23   that are both chapter eyes and m4a [TS]

00:09:26   format and that ever listened to by [TS]

00:09:29   anybody and overcast is probably less [TS]

00:09:32   than a hundred maybe even less than 10 [TS]

00:09:34   and so it's like it's it's a question of [TS]

00:09:37   whether I actually should do anything [TS]

00:09:39   about this or not president like ninety [TS]

00:09:41   percent of the podcast in Germany seen [TS]

00:09:43   and the Germans do use chapters heavily [TS]

00:09:45   and a few of them do use AAC chapters [TS]

00:09:48   but a lot of the news mp3 chapters or [TS]

00:09:51   other formats that I don't even support [TS]

00:09:53   like the pod love simple chapters format [TS]

00:09:55   which there's a wonderful idea but [TS]

00:09:56   there's just I don't have a lot of [TS]

00:09:57   market push to support it really yet the [TS]

00:10:01   idea behind that by the way pile have [TS]

00:10:02   simple chapters which is the idea [TS]

00:10:04   basically is to put the chapter [TS]

00:10:05   information in the feed rather than the [TS]

00:10:07   individual files and that's a great idea [TS]

00:10:10   but there's just there's almost no [TS]

00:10:12   support for it on on either side on the [TS]

00:10:15   producer side on the CMS side or on the [TS]

00:10:18   you know podcast app player side so [TS]

00:10:21   that's I don't know what I'm going to do [TS]

00:10:23   about that if anything but uh chapters I [TS]

00:10:26   don't know I waded into this chapter [TS]

00:10:28   mess and now making a chapter tool now [TS]

00:10:30   man this chapter app and now I'm stuck [TS]

00:10:31   with parsing chapters forever chapters [TS]

00:10:34   all the way down it is I do love the [TS]

00:10:36   Germans though they are great bringing [TS]

00:10:38   it back around talking more more [TS]

00:10:40   directly about a PFS Kyle South grey [TS]

00:10:43   otherwise known as Kyle's the gray had [TS]

00:10:45   tweeted at us a very interesting pair of [TS]

00:10:48   screenshots so he writes here's my iOS [TS]

00:10:52   disks before and after upgrading to 10 [TS]

00:10:55   dot 3 so it shows in the before that he [TS]

00:10:59   has [TS]

00:11:00   a capacity or it's eight of his discs or [TS]

00:11:03   eighty-six percent full ninety [TS]

00:11:04   one-percent fall in twenty percent full [TS]

00:11:06   after upgrade the same discs go from [TS]

00:11:09   eighty six to forty percent from and [TS]

00:11:12   then from twenty to eight percent full [TS]

00:11:15   which means somewhere out of nowhere he [TS]

00:11:18   now has more free space thanks to a PFS [TS]

00:11:21   you're looking at the wrong column in [TS]

00:11:23   these screenshots that's a mime I bet [TS]

00:11:24   yes it's a lot of numbers will put the [TS]

00:11:26   link and the chances tweet and you can [TS]

00:11:28   look at the screenshot so the [TS]

00:11:29   percentages are different right but okay [TS]

00:11:31   this is this the output of like DF or [TS]

00:11:33   whatever and the key thing to look at [TS]

00:11:37   like so there are some partitions that [TS]

00:11:38   are not interesting to us like dev for [TS]

00:11:40   the dev of s and the one at the bottom [TS]

00:11:42   which is like a baseband data for [TS]

00:11:45   wireless or whatever but there are you [TS]

00:11:47   can see the the OS and user partitions [TS]

00:11:49   and the key column is size before iOS 10 [TS]

00:11:53   the size of the first one which is [TS]

00:11:55   mounted at / is 4.3 gigs and that's like [TS]

00:11:58   the OS partition I'm assuming and the [TS]

00:12:00   size of like the big one where all your [TS]

00:12:02   stuff is is 59 gigs so 59 plus four [TS]

00:12:05   point three gigs it's like this is a 64 [TS]

00:12:07   gig phone right and then you know [TS]

00:12:08   ancillary stuff left over for their [TS]

00:12:10   little partitions right after upgrade [TS]

00:12:12   the size of both the iOS and the your [TS]

00:12:16   stuff partition both of them say 64 gigs [TS]

00:12:18   so the OS president it's 64 gigs and the [TS]

00:12:22   the user partition it's 64 gigs is [TS]

00:12:24   exactly what we were talking about it [TS]

00:12:25   and this didn't occur to me before when [TS]

00:12:26   I was talking about the sizing because I [TS]

00:12:27   couldn't quite figure out how the [TS]

00:12:28   numbers added up but this makes perfect [TS]

00:12:29   sense if you have a 64 gig phone it does [TS]

00:12:31   what we were saying an example a show [TS]

00:12:33   with like if you had a one gig disk and [TS]

00:12:34   you put 21 gig partitions they have a 64 [TS]

00:12:37   gig disk essentially in this phone and [TS]

00:12:38   they put to 64 gig partitions on it one [TS]

00:12:41   of them for the OS and one of them for [TS]

00:12:43   all the rest of your stuff which is a [TS]

00:12:46   reasonable simple occasion because now [TS]

00:12:47   they don't have to like think about oh [TS]

00:12:48   geez how big should the OS partition be [TS]

00:12:51   like how big is our OS how much how much [TS]

00:12:53   you know should be yeah you know uses in [TS]

00:12:55   the pre iOS 10.3 state if the size of [TS]

00:12:58   the OS partition was 4.3 gigs but only [TS]

00:13:00   3.6 was used so they give themselves a [TS]

00:13:02   little wiggle room like if the next I [TS]

00:13:03   West update is little bigger and they [TS]

00:13:05   are they could resize the partitions but [TS]

00:13:06   with a PFS they don't have to worry [TS]

00:13:08   about exactly how to size / dishes both [TS]

00:13:11   of them are 64 gigs both of them have [TS]

00:13:12   quote-unquote [TS]

00:13:13   whole phone and that messes up the [TS]

00:13:17   capacity and how much is available [TS]

00:13:19   measurements depending on how you are [TS]

00:13:22   going to are you going to report this [TS]

00:13:24   information so that could explain these [TS]

00:13:29   discrepancies that we were seeing before [TS]

00:13:30   in particular if you have 55 gigs used [TS]

00:13:32   and you think the thing is 60 64 gigs [TS]

00:13:34   then you think you have more left than [TS]

00:13:36   if it was a different size or occurred [TS]

00:13:38   just BDF totally confused by a PFS [TS]

00:13:40   either way free space and a PFS is weird [TS]

00:13:42   indeed moving on and video job postings [TS]

00:13:45   suggest an nvidia chip return to apple [TS]

00:13:47   macs john i presume this is most [TS]

00:13:50   interesting to you also tell us about [TS]

00:13:52   this week talk last show about nvidia [TS]

00:13:55   releasing the mac drivers for their new [TS]

00:13:58   card for the whole line of top-end cards [TS]

00:14:00   essentially which is a weird thing to do [TS]

00:14:02   because apples even sell a computer that [TS]

00:14:03   you can stick an nvidia card in just [TS]

00:14:07   older ones that people might still have [TS]

00:14:08   hanging around and I that something was [TS]

00:14:11   tickling I might about this and a lot of [TS]

00:14:12   people sent in this link from September [TS]

00:14:15   2016 a job posting Nvidia did a job post [TS]

00:14:19   and they were looking for someone to be [TS]

00:14:20   a software engineer at Nvidia and the [TS]

00:14:22   role would require this is that quote [TS]

00:14:24   from their job listing working in [TS]

00:14:25   partnership with apple and writing code [TS]

00:14:28   that will define and shape the future of [TS]

00:14:29   graphics related software on max so they [TS]

00:14:33   were looking for this in September and [TS]

00:14:34   now they've delivered a thing so who [TS]

00:14:38   knows when the Mac Pro decision was made [TS]

00:14:40   who knows when this decision was made [TS]

00:14:41   but really Nvidia made a decision that [TS]

00:14:43   previously we weren't too much mac stuff [TS]

00:14:45   but guess what now we're gonna and again [TS]

00:14:48   it seems really weird that Nvidia would [TS]

00:14:50   make that decision on its own because [TS]

00:14:52   they have no market to sell into except [TS]

00:14:54   for people who really old Macs so it [TS]

00:14:58   especially saying working in partnership [TS]

00:14:59   with Apple certainly seems like Apple [TS]

00:15:02   was talking to Nvidia sometime it on or [TS]

00:15:06   before September 23rd 2016 saying you [TS]

00:15:09   know come back we we miss you let's [TS]

00:15:12   let's let's get some make up whatever [TS]

00:15:14   our problem was we want to get some of [TS]

00:15:16   that sweet Pascal hardware and Max [TS]

00:15:18   someday and this could have been well [TS]

00:15:21   before they even decided he making a mac [TS]

00:15:23   pro so who knows maybe the imac pro of [TS]

00:15:25   invidious stuff and i don't know [TS]

00:15:26   I'm getting my hopes up a little bit but [TS]

00:15:27   anyway the mystery deepens but this [TS]

00:15:32   wasn't an overnight thing and I think [TS]

00:15:34   it's gotta have it's got to have some [TS]

00:15:36   form of apples input because I don't [TS]

00:15:38   just seem curious an invidi would do [TS]

00:15:40   this on its own all right friend of the [TS]

00:15:43   show Kieran Healy rights in regarding [TS]

00:15:44   Marco at 43 minutes and 15 seconds of [TS]

00:15:47   the last episode we'll put an overcast [TS]

00:15:49   link in the show notes quote obviously [TS]

00:15:52   something has changed with apples [TS]

00:15:54   thinking on release schedule since 2012 [TS]

00:15:56   around then everything slowed down this [TS]

00:15:58   is paraphrased around then everything [TS]

00:16:00   slowed down but now something has [TS]

00:16:01   changed to make apple flip around so [TS]

00:16:03   Kieran pontificates I wonder if it was [TS]

00:16:05   project Titan which is ostensibly the [TS]

00:16:07   car project perhaps that swallowed up a [TS]

00:16:09   lot of resources last I heard maybe nine [TS]

00:16:12   months ago it sounded like that was [TS]

00:16:13   getting at least substantially scaled [TS]

00:16:15   back it was surprising not to hear on [TS]

00:16:18   the show but also elsewhere the news [TS]

00:16:19   coverage i read any discussion of the [TS]

00:16:21   possibility that the apple car project [TS]

00:16:22   was the black hole that absorbed [TS]

00:16:23   hardware design talent and effort for [TS]

00:16:25   two to three years with no results as [TS]

00:16:27   yet and that had significant opportunity [TS]

00:16:30   cost for every piece of hardware the [TS]

00:16:31   company makes apart from the iphone [TS]

00:16:32   thoughts on that any kind of massive [TS]

00:16:35   project like this like apple trying to [TS]

00:16:38   make a car and then a self-driving car [TS]

00:16:40   that's going to draw talent from the [TS]

00:16:42   company no question however i think a [TS]

00:16:45   large part of the talent that was or is [TS]

00:16:48   working on that was probably from [TS]

00:16:51   external sources it's probably like you [TS]

00:16:53   know from external hires from [TS]

00:16:55   acquisitions places like that i don't [TS]

00:16:57   think the team that was working on the [TS]

00:16:59   mac pro or would have updated the mac [TS]

00:17:01   mini otherwise or was trying to ship new [TS]

00:17:04   laptops two years earlier you know i [TS]

00:17:06   don't think those people went to go work [TS]

00:17:09   on the on the car project and that's why [TS]

00:17:12   those things didn't happen you know it's [TS]

00:17:14   probably more complicated than that also [TS]

00:17:16   i bet project Titan has not actually got [TS]

00:17:20   a layer or anything or necessarily been [TS]

00:17:23   scaled back I think it was just [TS]

00:17:24   rethought based on what we've actually [TS]

00:17:25   heard and what actually makes more sense [TS]

00:17:28   but anyway I'm guessing that these are [TS]

00:17:29   at least partially separate that that [TS]

00:17:33   the the the product slow down that we [TS]

00:17:36   have seen was not probably a direct [TS]

00:17:39   result of [TS]

00:17:40   project Titan suck in town out of the [TS]

00:17:42   company I think it's way more likely [TS]

00:17:43   that it was a combination of operational [TS]

00:17:47   screw-ups somewhere along the way and [TS]

00:17:49   also a just and also decisions up top [TS]

00:17:52   that were basically along the lines of [TS]

00:17:54   we don't think these are worth doing or [TS]

00:17:58   product Titan being scaled back like [TS]

00:18:00   regardless of the current size of it [TS]

00:18:02   because of the change in direction that [TS]

00:18:05   was rumored I think a lot of people get [TS]

00:18:07   laid off like we don't need people who [TS]

00:18:08   know how to build a car if we're not [TS]

00:18:10   building a car anymore but all of a [TS]

00:18:11   sudden we do need people who know how to [TS]

00:18:13   write software that other people in the [TS]

00:18:15   audio industry are going to consume or [TS]

00:18:16   whatever but yeah the main reason I [TS]

00:18:18   present show notes ask question and you [TS]

00:18:20   know it people have this question a lot [TS]

00:18:21   I think we've talked about a few times [TS]

00:18:22   in the past but you're always looking [TS]

00:18:25   for something to blame for the the [TS]

00:18:28   product that you want to be updated or [TS]

00:18:31   work done or become prominent not [TS]

00:18:33   getting the attention it deserves and [TS]

00:18:35   it's easy to blame it on the mysterious [TS]

00:18:36   you know potentially very large secret [TS]

00:18:41   operation going on to make a car but I'm [TS]

00:18:44   on the same page with Marco I think [TS]

00:18:45   projects like this do take talent away [TS]

00:18:48   and take attention away attention to the [TS]

00:18:52   executives and the attention the [TS]

00:18:53   employees but in general if any project [TS]

00:18:55   was going to be it was going to contain [TS]

00:19:00   a large proportion of new employees who [TS]

00:19:03   are new to apple or who would not be [TS]

00:19:05   working on the Mac at all it's a car [TS]

00:19:06   project because yeah there's going to be [TS]

00:19:08   smart people who you're like we want [TS]

00:19:09   something people visit your smart people [TS]

00:19:10   and they're just good software people so [TS]

00:19:12   we'll definitely take them right but [TS]

00:19:14   it's not I think it's not the same thing [TS]

00:19:17   as for example when iOS stole a lot of [TS]

00:19:20   resources from the Mac because they're [TS]

00:19:23   the same core OS under the covers right [TS]

00:19:24   and making a GUI operating system even [TS]

00:19:27   though one is touching one is Mouse [TS]

00:19:28   they're so closely related they share [TS]

00:19:30   code they share concepts of every [TS]

00:19:32   where's the car is far enough away that [TS]

00:19:34   I feel like the worst thing you can [TS]

00:19:36   probably blame it for is distracting [TS]

00:19:38   executives perhaps but I think it is a [TS]

00:19:41   separate a separate issue then why are [TS]

00:19:44   max taken a long time to update all of a [TS]

00:19:46   sudden you know why why are these other [TS]

00:19:47   products being emphasized to emphasize [TS]

00:19:49   if you want to blame anything you blame [TS]

00:19:50   like the watch or something [TS]

00:19:52   another project that is closer to the [TS]

00:19:54   Mac than the car is to say you know [TS]

00:19:56   because there was you know the watch was [TS]

00:19:58   behind schedule a little bit according [TS]

00:19:59   to the rumors of what Apple wanted to be [TS]

00:20:01   released and this little fire drill [TS]

00:20:02   about software and all sorts of the [TS]

00:20:04   stuff so I don't blame the car or the [TS]

00:20:07   whatever it is now at all we respond to [TS]

00:20:11   this week by mail route my favorite [TS]

00:20:14   email spam filtering service for a free [TS]

00:20:16   30-day trial go to mail route net / ATP [TS]

00:20:19   you know who should handle your email [TS]

00:20:22   security and delivery people who do only [TS]

00:20:24   that and that's mail route the big [TS]

00:20:27   companies have bowed out of the email [TS]

00:20:28   protection business because it's hard [TS]

00:20:29   work there was postini McAfee MX logic [TS]

00:20:33   mail routes team is focused entirely on [TS]

00:20:35   email security since 1997 I was still in [TS]

00:20:38   middle school in I don't know high [TS]

00:20:40   school still that was a long time ago [TS]

00:20:41   mail route protects your email and [TS]

00:20:44   hardware against spam viruses and other [TS]

00:20:46   threats and they deliver your mail even [TS]

00:20:48   if your mail server cannot there's no [TS]

00:20:50   hardware or software to install if you [TS]

00:20:52   own your own domain all you got to do is [TS]

00:20:54   point the MX records at mail route and [TS]

00:20:55   then tell me about servers where to [TS]

00:20:57   deliver your clean filtered nail the [TS]

00:20:59   interface is very easy to navigate and [TS]

00:21:01   loaded with admin tools there's even an [TS]

00:21:02   API if you need that and all this is [TS]

00:21:04   designed to make your life better as an [TS]

00:21:06   email administrator no spam no viruses [TS]

00:21:08   and no bounced mail and also if you are [TS]

00:21:11   just an individual like me you know I [TS]

00:21:13   don't run an email server for anybody [TS]

00:21:14   else but I do buy my own email service [TS]

00:21:16   and their built-in spam filtering isn't [TS]

00:21:18   very good mail routes is the best I've [TS]

00:21:20   ever seen so you just put mail route in [TS]

00:21:22   front of any other I'm a post or you're [TS]

00:21:24   an email servers and they clean out all [TS]

00:21:26   the spam and viruses for you and deliver [TS]

00:21:29   to you is almost no spam it is [TS]

00:21:32   incredibly rare that a piece of spam [TS]

00:21:34   actually hits my mailbox and it believe [TS]

00:21:36   me this mail this milk has been around [TS]

00:21:38   for a long time it is shocking how [TS]

00:21:40   effective mail route has been since I [TS]

00:21:42   put it on there probably a year ago now [TS]

00:21:44   i absolutely love mail route so whether [TS]

00:21:46   you're running a big server or group of [TS]

00:21:49   servers you need lots of filtering to [TS]

00:21:50   save yourself hardware costs for all [TS]

00:21:52   those server loads or if you're an [TS]

00:21:54   individual user with an email service [TS]

00:21:56   that you pay for and you want better [TS]

00:21:57   spam filter than what it provides i [TS]

00:21:59   highly suggest mail route so check it [TS]

00:22:01   out today stop spam with a free 30-day [TS]

00:22:04   trial at mail route net [TS]

00:22:06   / ATP and listener to this show if you [TS]

00:22:08   use that link now there are two dents [TS]

00:22:09   I'll gtp you will get ten percent off [TS]

00:22:11   for the lifetime of your account so [TS]

00:22:14   every time they charge you for your [TS]

00:22:15   membership fee you get ten percent off [TS]

00:22:17   that's an incredible deal mail route net [TS]

00:22:19   / ATP thanks a lot front of the show [TS]

00:22:25   Greg Pearce had noticed something [TS]

00:22:27   interesting about the clips app which I [TS]

00:22:29   was able to talk about briefly last [TS]

00:22:31   episode before we dope in 23 hours of [TS]

00:22:33   mac pro talk he noted that clips did not [TS]

00:22:36   ask permission to use his camera or [TS]

00:22:38   microphone and he said bad form Apple [TS]

00:22:40   which I agree with k rights in replied [TS]

00:22:44   to Greg it's a deliberate choice made by [TS]

00:22:46   apple they granted clip special [TS]

00:22:48   entitlements to access camera mic [TS]

00:22:49   contacts etc without asking and there's [TS]

00:22:51   a screenshot of what I believe to be [TS]

00:22:54   oats the entitlements of the clips app [TS]

00:22:57   and it has a key calm da da da private [TS]

00:23:00   TCC ow which has entries such as Katie [TS]

00:23:04   CC service photos and camera and [TS]

00:23:06   microphone etc which is an interesting [TS]

00:23:08   special case that we aren't allowed to [TS]

00:23:10   do that that blesses clips and gives [TS]

00:23:13   clips access to your mic and camera and [TS]

00:23:15   context what not without the user [TS]

00:23:17   actively having done so which I mean [TS]

00:23:20   obviously it's apples right to do that [TS]

00:23:21   but I don't know I kind of wish that [TS]

00:23:23   they would just play by the same rules [TS]

00:23:24   with everyone else so this is not a new [TS]

00:23:26   thing with clips tons of apple apps do [TS]

00:23:28   this but it's just a it's worth on again [TS]

00:23:31   doing his people didn't know you know [TS]

00:23:33   obviously Apple runs the platform I can [TS]

00:23:34   do whatever the hell they want right and [TS]

00:23:35   they do like a minute thing they put [TS]

00:23:37   Xcode on the mac app store for crying [TS]

00:23:39   out loud like hex code is in slight [TS]

00:23:41   violation of a couple of Mac App Store [TS]

00:23:43   rules that employ their applications but [TS]

00:23:47   for this specific case of it for iOS [TS]

00:23:49   apps like this in particular I think [TS]

00:23:53   like it's it's an interesting object [TS]

00:23:55   lesson for for the policies they have in [TS]

00:23:57   that clearly someone at Apple who is [TS]

00:24:00   making Clips thought that not having to [TS]

00:24:05   ask for permission to access the camera [TS]

00:24:07   in the microphone and you know your [TS]

00:24:08   contacts and and your photos and stuff [TS]

00:24:11   like that is a better user experience [TS]

00:24:13   for the app like forget about whether [TS]

00:24:16   they have the ability to get rid of to [TS]

00:24:18   put these secret entitlements in [TS]

00:24:19   are not like it's a design question is [TS]

00:24:22   this app better when it asked for [TS]

00:24:23   regression or is this a better when it [TS]

00:24:25   doesn't ask for mission and it seems [TS]

00:24:26   like this is an interface decision this [TS]

00:24:27   is a nicer experience for users if we [TS]

00:24:29   don't ask for permission right but [TS]

00:24:33   because only Apple gets to make that [TS]

00:24:34   it's kind of like they're saying not [TS]

00:24:36   only do we Apple get to do secret things [TS]

00:24:38   you don't get to do but because we get [TS]

00:24:40   to do those secret things our [TS]

00:24:41   applications have a nicer user [TS]

00:24:43   experience than yours can ever have [TS]

00:24:44   because the first thing you have to do [TS]

00:24:46   on it first launched is throw a bunch of [TS]

00:24:47   dialogues in someone's face and say can [TS]

00:24:49   I do this can I do this can I do this [TS]

00:24:50   and users don't like that and we get to [TS]

00:24:53   bypass that but you because you are [TS]

00:24:55   untrustworthy must have a worst user [TS]

00:24:57   experience and needless to say the vast [TS]

00:25:00   majority of applications downloaded from [TS]

00:25:03   the App Store not made by apple and so [TS]

00:25:05   it's like every application except for [TS]

00:25:07   apples has to have a worse user [TS]

00:25:08   experience I don't know what the [TS]

00:25:09   solution is because you do want [TS]

00:25:11   applications asking for information you [TS]

00:25:12   don't want applications to be able to [TS]

00:25:13   secretly use your camera and get it your [TS]

00:25:15   photos right but it's an interesting [TS]

00:25:17   dilemma because it's like Apple Apple is [TS]

00:25:21   choosing not to eat its own dog food or [TS]

00:25:22   follow its own rules not because they're [TS]

00:25:24   flouting their power because because I [TS]

00:25:25   think they really believe this makes a [TS]

00:25:27   better application and so yeah I think [TS]

00:25:29   this is evidence of a perhaps a [TS]

00:25:33   rethinking even if it's just a very [TS]

00:25:34   minor rethinking of how permission is [TS]

00:25:36   asked for and granted because perhaps [TS]

00:25:39   the most obtrusive way to do anything on [TS]

00:25:40   iOS is to throw a modal dialogue on top [TS]

00:25:42   of everything and i'm not sure what the [TS]

00:25:44   answer is would it be better if it like [TS]

00:25:46   slid down or had a different appearance [TS]

00:25:47   would it be better if there was some [TS]

00:25:49   other way that these permissions [TS]

00:25:50   manifested maybe when you download the [TS]

00:25:52   app you could give it something or users [TS]

00:25:55   could I don't even know I don't know the [TS]

00:25:56   solution is I just thought it was it [TS]

00:25:58   highlighted this this user interface [TS]

00:26:00   issue more so than the petiole thing [TS]

00:26:02   because again tons of Apple apps do this [TS]

00:26:04   finally a t-shirt update so if you are [TS]

00:26:08   listening to this episode either live or [TS]

00:26:10   recorded it doesn't matter you are [TS]

00:26:13   probably listening to it sometime before [TS]

00:26:15   April 26th if you are listening to this [TS]

00:26:19   episode right now and you want a t-shirt [TS]

00:26:23   and you have not ordered it please order [TS]

00:26:25   it now I cannot tell you the amount of [TS]

00:26:28   times we've heard people say either oh I [TS]

00:26:31   had no idea the t-shirts were for sale [TS]

00:26:32   or [TS]

00:26:33   oh I meant to get one but then I just [TS]

00:26:35   plumb forgot don't be that person or [TS]

00:26:38   dirty shirt yes this is incredibly [TS]

00:26:40   self-serving yes I acknowledge that but [TS]

00:26:42   I am so sick of people saying oh I did [TS]

00:26:44   not have any idea or oh I forgot don't [TS]

00:26:46   forget please if it's April 26 to 2017 [TS]

00:26:50   before April 26 to 2017 you're listening [TS]

00:26:52   to this show please if you are [TS]

00:26:54   interested buy a t-shirt now John can [TS]

00:26:56   you give us a little bit of details on [TS]

00:26:58   what's going on with those because [TS]

00:27:00   there's been a couple of changes since [TS]

00:27:01   we last spoke yeah but first I have to [TS]

00:27:03   remind myself to listen to your advice [TS]

00:27:05   because for the past like week I've been [TS]

00:27:07   like you know what I need auditors to [TS]

00:27:08   sing here actually I too have not [TS]

00:27:11   ordered my shirts don't be like us okay [TS]

00:27:14   don't be like that we know when we stop [TS]

00:27:16   selling these shirts even we can't order [TS]

00:27:18   them again yeah that's really true yeah [TS]

00:27:21   we'll be out of luck so here's what [TS]

00:27:23   happened since the last time i talked [TS]

00:27:24   about how we might be changing things to [TS]

00:27:26   instead of taking all of your orders for [TS]

00:27:28   20-something days and then you know [TS]

00:27:30   after the sale ends sending this huge [TS]

00:27:33   giant ship and assurance out to [TS]

00:27:34   everybody instead we might switch to [TS]

00:27:36   sort of a continuous fulfillment type of [TS]

00:27:38   thing and that is what we've done it's [TS]

00:27:40   like in every three days type of thing [TS]

00:27:42   and that manifests on the tee spring [TS]

00:27:43   site it's saying this sale ends in two [TS]

00:27:47   days this sale ends in one days and many [TS]

00:27:48   people keep sending his tweets panic [TS]

00:27:50   don't know it says it ends in one day or [TS]

00:27:52   in two days but you said it was going to [TS]

00:27:53   end on the twenty-sixth very often these [TS]

00:27:56   people have already ordered their shirt [TS]

00:27:57   that is trying to look out for other [TS]

00:27:57   people to say like or look out for us [TS]

00:27:59   and say you might not know it but you [TS]

00:28:01   have your stuff misconfigured well what [TS]

00:28:03   happens is when it ends it just [TS]

00:28:05   immediately relaunches for another three [TS]

00:28:06   day window and this is going to repeat [TS]

00:28:08   into the 26 fish so don't fret if it [TS]

00:28:10   says you have two day remaining or one [TS]

00:28:12   day remain look at the calendar if it is [TS]

00:28:14   the 26th or before you can still order [TS]

00:28:16   if it's after the 26th take seriously [TS]

00:28:19   any things you see on this hi this is [TS]

00:28:21   just the way it works on the side I wish [TS]

00:28:22   we could have said continuous [TS]

00:28:24   fulfillment but with it with a [TS]

00:28:25   definitive end date but we can't because [TS]

00:28:27   this is not how the site works so never [TS]

00:28:29   fear it's a rolling cycle that repeats [TS]

00:28:32   every three days ish and the other thing [TS]

00:28:34   I wanted to mention because T spring [TS]

00:28:37   itself mentioned it to us one of the [TS]

00:28:40   shirts that we sell in our bazillion [TS]

00:28:41   different color varieties here which by [TS]

00:28:43   the way we didn't point this out but [TS]

00:28:45   when we serve to this accidentally which [TS]

00:28:46   is appropriate usually we have some kind [TS]

00:28:50   of silly in joke apple-related in joke [TS]

00:28:54   for our shirts for the past couple of [TS]

00:28:55   years this year the silly unintentional [TS]

00:28:59   in joke was that our shirt names and the [TS]

00:29:02   million varieties are like the million [TS]

00:29:04   different varieties of apple product [TS]

00:29:05   names it's like macbook two USB ports [TS]

00:29:08   2013 you know late 2013 or whatever so [TS]

00:29:12   that's what our shirts are like and we [TS]

00:29:13   have a million net varieties anyway one [TS]

00:29:15   of them is what we call the jet black [TS]

00:29:17   shirt which isn't you know obviously [TS]

00:29:18   allusion to the new phone color for the [TS]

00:29:20   iphone 7 and the jet black shirt is a [TS]

00:29:23   black t-shirt and the printing on it is [TS]

00:29:26   also in black and that's the joke it's [TS]

00:29:29   completely black if this is not clear to [TS]

00:29:32   you that it is black printing on a black [TS]

00:29:33   t-shirt it will be basically invisible [TS]

00:29:36   like if you're buying this shirt and you [TS]

00:29:38   get it and you're like hey I can't see [TS]

00:29:40   anything on this shirt because it's [TS]

00:29:41   black ink Clinton on black that's the [TS]

00:29:43   joke it's a jet black it's you know how [TS]

00:29:45   much more black took the shirt be and [TS]

00:29:46   the answer is none none more black which [TS]

00:29:49   is a different joke or reference if not [TS]

00:29:52   joke anyway so teespring was encouraging [TS]

00:29:56   us very strongly to not sell a shirt [TS]

00:29:57   with black printing on black because [TS]

00:30:01   customers get it and they're angry [TS]

00:30:02   because they can't see anything on it [TS]

00:30:03   and I had faith in our customers and say [TS]

00:30:05   I hope they get the joke that it's a jet [TS]

00:30:08   black shirt and it does have black [TS]

00:30:10   printing and you can see it in the [TS]

00:30:11   picture like it's not a secret that it's [TS]

00:30:13   black printing on black but I needless [TS]

00:30:16   to say if you see that shirt and you're [TS]

00:30:17   wondering is this black printing on a [TS]

00:30:19   black shirt and will this be hard to see [TS]

00:30:20   yes it's black burning on a black shirt [TS]

00:30:21   and it will be super duper hard to see [TS]

00:30:23   and that's the joke enjoy alright so yes [TS]

00:30:26   so if you're listening to this do not be [TS]

00:30:29   like Casey John and Mark oh don't be us [TS]

00:30:32   be better than us which is not a very [TS]

00:30:35   hard thing to do go to 80 PF m / shirt [TS]

00:30:40   and buy you a shirt if you are so [TS]

00:30:41   inclined that definitely helps us on the [TS]

00:30:44   show and we thank you to anyone who is [TS]

00:30:45   even considered doing so but please [TS]

00:30:47   blame only the mirror if you miss the [TS]

00:30:50   window because this one's on you [TS]

00:30:52   although you should be like us and that [TS]

00:30:54   in it when you actually do order shirts [TS]

00:30:55   you should order like five of them like [TS]

00:30:57   all of us are going to do [TS]

00:30:58   that's true like anyone's before my kids [TS]

00:31:01   for the first year my daughter said she [TS]

00:31:02   she might want one she likes the rainbow [TS]

00:31:04   one like everybody everybody else John [TS]

00:31:07   didn't you not even by yourself the [TS]

00:31:08   addition shirt three years ago that was [TS]

00:31:10   me I totally did I've got an addition [TS]

00:31:13   I'm I'm part of the elite are you [TS]

00:31:15   kidding I was way too cheap to buy an [TS]

00:31:16   addition Casey that invited say let's a [TS]

00:31:19   thing about who's actually cheap here I [TS]

00:31:20   did buy an addition yeah that that's [TS]

00:31:23   just don't be like us kids go they just [TS]

00:31:24   go into the t-shirt museum i'll have [TS]

00:31:26   actually worn it you know i think i've [TS]

00:31:28   worn mine like twice like I'm afraid to [TS]

00:31:30   wear it too much that I don't want to [TS]

00:31:31   wear it out because it's gold it's about [TS]

00:31:33   it's a valuable t-shirt almost as [TS]

00:31:36   valuable to cotton for a cheap your [TS]

00:31:37   t-shirt shipped to Europe right sick [TS]

00:31:42   burn the real valuable t-shirt for [TS]

00:31:44   people haven't been keeping about the [TS]

00:31:45   t-shirts is the very first tee shirt we [TS]

00:31:47   ever printed but there was a printing [TS]

00:31:48   error on it and so everybody who got [TS]

00:31:50   that t-shirt got like the equivalent of [TS]

00:31:52   the upside-down airplane on the stamp [TS]

00:31:53   thing right where is it misprinted [TS]

00:31:56   incorrectly made shirt and then all [TS]

00:31:58   those same people got a second shirt [TS]

00:32:00   correctly printed for free yeah so those [TS]

00:32:03   people got two sheets are the shirts for [TS]

00:32:05   the price of one and they also got a [TS]

00:32:06   special collector's item never be [TS]

00:32:08   reproduced printing error shirt so kudos [TS]

00:32:10   to those people put those into the short [TS]

00:32:12   museum oh goodness all right any other [TS]

00:32:16   follow-up John the keeper of the [TS]

00:32:18   follow-up anything else you'd like to [TS]

00:32:19   add no we're at the end you see it you [TS]

00:32:22   can see it you know John isn't only the [TS]

00:32:24   keeper of the follow-up mm-hmm I'm [TS]

00:32:27   heavily credited mmm all right Apple has [TS]

00:32:32   apparently patented a USBC magsafe style [TS]

00:32:37   adapter which is super duper exciting [TS]

00:32:40   for those of us like myself who even [TS]

00:32:43   though i don't have a US pc laptop i can [TS]

00:32:44   tell you i will miss having magsafe [TS]

00:32:46   because it saved my bacon a bunch of [TS]

00:32:48   times so do we have any thoughts on this [TS]

00:32:50   why are you excited by it that's the [TS]

00:32:52   first question because i feel like i [TS]

00:32:56   have had my laptop saved and or legs [TS]

00:32:59   saved many many many times by the [TS]

00:33:01   magsafe adapter that's been on my laptop [TS]

00:33:03   or den on my laptop's so this looks like [TS]

00:33:06   it would bring it back which would be [TS]

00:33:08   great you need a you know magsafe four [TS]

00:33:10   cups of water but within [TS]

00:33:11   that yeah that is true yeah so the [TS]

00:33:14   reason I think you should not be excited [TS]

00:33:15   about it is because as we've said my [TS]

00:33:17   time apple patents everything patents [TS]

00:33:18   have no real bearing on anything that [TS]

00:33:20   Apple were produced especially if you [TS]

00:33:21   see the pattern before the product gets [TS]

00:33:23   a good chance that there's not a product [TS]

00:33:24   related to that but the reason I put it [TS]

00:33:26   in here is not because I think apple [TS]

00:33:28   will make such thing although belkin and [TS]

00:33:30   a few other companies i think actually [TS]

00:33:31   do make this exact thing that you're [TS]

00:33:32   seeing here which is like a little thing [TS]

00:33:34   that plugs into USB see it has a little [TS]

00:33:36   mag safety kind of magnet snap off e [TS]

00:33:38   thing on the end yeah Griffin is the one [TS]

00:33:40   you think of anything it's unfortunately [TS]

00:33:42   it's not very well regarded yeah but [TS]

00:33:46   it's the same idea though it's just that [TS]

00:33:47   the implementation may not be good visit [TS]

00:33:49   is actually tricky to get this stuff [TS]

00:33:50   right the reason I think it's [TS]

00:33:52   interesting is because that back when we [TS]

00:33:54   knew they were dropping magsafe oh but [TS]

00:33:55   none of us actually seen the products [TS]

00:33:56   yet and we hadn't really used the USBC [TS]

00:33:58   we're like well you know magsafe is [TS]

00:34:00   great and everybody loves it but it is [TS]

00:34:02   bigger and maybe maybe USBC will the [TS]

00:34:06   connectors will this yank out just as [TS]

00:34:08   easily as magsafe does because it's a [TS]

00:34:09   whole new connector it's not like a big [TS]

00:34:11   USB a connector you know who sees who [TS]

00:34:13   knows what it'll be like but now that we [TS]

00:34:15   all have experience with us bc it was [TS]

00:34:17   pretty safe to say it does not come out [TS]

00:34:19   as easily as matic safe in any way shape [TS]

00:34:21   or form and that the hazard of tripping [TS]

00:34:24   over your cord that's connected through [TS]

00:34:26   USB see to your laptop is back it used [TS]

00:34:29   to be mostly gone with magsafe depending [TS]

00:34:31   on the angle that you trip over it on [TS]

00:34:33   but now the danger is back and i think [TS]

00:34:37   USBC kind of like air pods is one of [TS]

00:34:40   those little things that seems like oh [TS]

00:34:42   whatever you know wireless earphones or [TS]

00:34:44   you know magnet instead of plugging in [TS]

00:34:45   and that seems nice but i think magsafe [TS]

00:34:48   is was mostly universally beloved the [TS]

00:34:51   only complaints i ever heard about [TS]

00:34:52   magsafe were from couch chargers people [TS]

00:34:55   who use their you know think connected [TS]

00:34:57   on the couch or like with a big [TS]

00:34:58   comforter or blanket and they would say [TS]

00:34:59   it was a little bit too loose in it like [TS]

00:35:01   they would knock it out unintentionally [TS]

00:35:03   but that's the only bad thing i've ever [TS]

00:35:04   heard of a magsafe and for a connector [TS]

00:35:07   and a technology that looks if you if [TS]

00:35:09   you just you know look at it it looks [TS]

00:35:10   like weird and delicate in the same way [TS]

00:35:13   the lightning does and it like you're [TS]

00:35:15   looking it's like so it's a magnet and [TS]

00:35:16   these you know this little tiny set of [TS]

00:35:18   contacts inside there and all the power [TS]

00:35:21   to this laptop is going through these [TS]

00:35:22   tiny little pinprick point things [TS]

00:35:24   that just seems so much less robust and [TS]

00:35:27   what if stuff gets in there and so on [TS]

00:35:28   and so forth but I've had Meg site from [TS]

00:35:30   many many devices and still have it on [TS]

00:35:32   many of them and I still think it's a [TS]

00:35:34   great idea well executed again you know [TS]

00:35:37   modulo the the the looseness of like [TS]

00:35:40   magsafe 2 and and other issues like that [TS]

00:35:43   and I think it's pretty beloved I think [TS]

00:35:45   people like a couple products because [TS]

00:35:47   they have magsafe it was another one of [TS]

00:35:48   those Apple things like that makes it [TS]

00:35:50   better than just a regular laptop and [TS]

00:35:52   when it went away and when we discovered [TS]

00:35:54   that there is no real replacement for it [TS]

00:35:55   is just like well that advantage is now [TS]

00:35:57   gone you know it was it was kind of it [TS]

00:36:00   kind of made their laptops worse in a [TS]

00:36:02   way and in some tiny way it made their [TS]

00:36:03   laptops worse and Apple having a patent [TS]

00:36:06   like this makes me think that it's very [TS]

00:36:10   least somewhere inside the company they [TS]

00:36:11   said can we go all USBC but also retain [TS]

00:36:16   the advantages of magsafe somehow by you [TS]

00:36:19   know but by the answer to everything [TS]

00:36:20   that is the answer in the world of us bc [TS]

00:36:22   which is let's make an adapter and so [TS]

00:36:24   and so they did and patented it but you [TS]

00:36:27   know decided not to ship it for whatever [TS]

00:36:29   reason because maybe it's still kind of [TS]

00:36:31   clunky or whatever anyway all this is to [TS]

00:36:33   say that I wish instead of doing this [TS]

00:36:36   adapter and going USBC everywhere and [TS]

00:36:38   they're not shipping this adapter and [TS]

00:36:40   leaving the third parties I wish they [TS]

00:36:41   had come up with magsafe three magsafe [TS]

00:36:43   is too big and clunky and your devices [TS]

00:36:46   are getting thinner and thinner can you [TS]

00:36:47   come up with some other solution that [TS]

00:36:49   also uses magnets that has all the same [TS]

00:36:50   advantages in it we haven't seen a [TS]

00:36:52   patent for that but clearly nothing [TS]

00:36:53   they've shipped reflects that anyway I'm [TS]

00:36:56   saying as I miss magsafe and I wish it [TS]

00:36:57   would come back and it seems like at [TS]

00:36:59   least some contingent inside apple also [TS]

00:37:01   misses magsafe because they tried to do [TS]

00:37:03   something to bring it back if you're [TS]

00:37:05   going to do magsafe on us bc the [TS]

00:37:09   solution is not to have this weird [TS]

00:37:12   little stick out like half inch long [TS]

00:37:15   adapter that you need to also have with [TS]

00:37:17   you or stick on your cables and have [TS]

00:37:19   that breakaway know that that's like [TS]

00:37:22   anything that involves like a rigid [TS]

00:37:24   adapter against a USB port i think is [TS]

00:37:27   not a good idea long-term because it's [TS]

00:37:29   so easily just like you know breaks off [TS]

00:37:31   in the port or something else like all [TS]

00:37:33   those USB hubs that were designed first [TS]

00:37:35   for the macbook one that like literally [TS]

00:37:37   just like a [TS]

00:37:38   hacks right next to it like flush [TS]

00:37:40   against the case and have this big long [TS]

00:37:41   hub down the side like that's just [TS]

00:37:43   asking for to like to have your knee [TS]

00:37:46   push against that or something and have [TS]

00:37:47   the end of the cable snap off into the [TS]

00:37:50   into the socket like anything like that [TS]

00:37:52   I think is a bad idea and I think the [TS]

00:37:54   the relative a mediocre reception of the [TS]

00:37:56   Griffin thing that looks just like this [TS]

00:37:58   is I think reinforcing of that to me if [TS]

00:38:01   you're going to have this problem you [TS]

00:38:03   have now which is you're not going to [TS]

00:38:04   have a dedicated magnetic charging port [TS]

00:38:07   anymore you're just gonna charge through [TS]

00:38:09   any USBC port then you can't make them [TS]

00:38:12   all magnetic because you know that's not [TS]

00:38:14   how you SBC works but you can do an [TS]

00:38:17   innovation that Microsoft figured out in [TS]

00:38:19   2001 I think which is whenever the xbox [TS]

00:38:22   one came out i don't mean the xbox o ne [TS]

00:38:24   I mean the Xbox number one the first [TS]

00:38:26   Xbox and that was you put the magnetic [TS]

00:38:29   splitter thing a few inches away from [TS]

00:38:31   the console in the cable you know in a [TS]

00:38:34   similar location that many cables would [TS]

00:38:36   have one of those you know drum like [TS]

00:38:38   those drum shape like magnetic [TS]

00:38:40   interference reducer things you know [TS]

00:38:43   like you know a few inches from the [TS]

00:38:45   connector head you have a little like [TS]

00:38:46   breakaway thing that if you pull it the [TS]

00:38:48   wrong way it opens up it's like magsafe [TS]

00:38:51   you know six inches into a cable [TS]

00:38:53   basically that worked great on the xbox [TS]

00:38:56   and I'm sure you know it wouldn't be [TS]

00:38:58   like the most like visually pristine [TS]

00:39:00   thing but neither are these neither is [TS]

00:39:02   like this road full of crazy adapters we [TS]

00:39:05   have now the adapters are all ugly and [TS]

00:39:06   stupid and clunky right so if you move [TS]

00:39:09   it away from the port by a few inches [TS]

00:39:12   onto the cable you have all the same [TS]

00:39:14   safeties of Mac safe but you get it away [TS]

00:39:18   from the laptop body it then works fine [TS]

00:39:20   in any USBC port and it doesn't require [TS]

00:39:22   the use of these little fragile adapters [TS]

00:39:24   back when we talked about this [TS]

00:39:26   originally this that's actually wasn't [TS]

00:39:29   the most popular know that did you you [TS]

00:39:30   did bring it up back then too because [TS]

00:39:32   you have this absurd love for that huge [TS]

00:39:34   console that was a great console the [TS]

00:39:37   most common the most common thing that [TS]

00:39:39   people brought up was the opposite of [TS]

00:39:42   having having the magnetic thing at the [TS]

00:39:44   other end like at the other far end [TS]

00:39:45   rather than in the middle somewhere like [TS]

00:39:47   it basically at the part where it plugs [TS]

00:39:48   into the you know the white brick [TS]

00:39:51   singing you know but I think both middle [TS]

00:39:55   and the other end are worse solutions [TS]

00:39:58   than just magsafe three on the on the [TS]

00:39:59   laptop because middle and the other end [TS]

00:40:02   are both much more likely to be in [TS]

00:40:05   inaccessible places you know the end [TS]

00:40:08   that's where the laptop is accessible [TS]

00:40:10   because you can get at the laptop right [TS]

00:40:11   you put a laptop on the desk you have to [TS]

00:40:13   be able to reach the laptop to type on [TS]

00:40:14   it and use the trackpad that means you [TS]

00:40:16   can also reach the part where you plug [TS]

00:40:18   and unplug you know the little plug [TS]

00:40:20   thing and if it comes undone because [TS]

00:40:22   something you know because you yank it [TS]

00:40:24   or something knocks or whatever you just [TS]

00:40:26   plug it right back in like and I think [TS]

00:40:28   part of the experience max it makes good [TS]

00:40:29   is not just the breakaway ability but [TS]

00:40:32   that it is a pleasing way to connect and [TS]

00:40:33   disconnect with a little magnet which is [TS]

00:40:35   a frequent operations in frequently [TS]

00:40:37   someone will trip over very frequently [TS]

00:40:38   you will plug and unplug it and I think [TS]

00:40:40   it's more pleasant to plot even just [TS]

00:40:42   being able to yank it out to unplug it [TS]

00:40:44   and not having to be careful or slide [TS]

00:40:46   straight out or worried about bendings [TS]

00:40:47   or whatever so that's part of what i [TS]

00:40:49   love about Max Ava it's part of the [TS]

00:40:50   reason why I don't like middle because [TS]

00:40:53   who can get at the middle when someone [TS]

00:40:55   does trip over and like some end of it [TS]

00:40:56   is going to tuck behind something's [TS]

00:40:57   gonna be a pain in the butt to try to [TS]

00:40:58   find it again I don't like the other end [TS]

00:41:00   because the other end is probably in a [TS]

00:41:01   power brick it's either in a wall socket [TS]

00:41:02   or at least close to it also harder to [TS]

00:41:05   get to and middle is ugly because you [TS]

00:41:07   know it's it's it's just jongup would [TS]

00:41:09   never like it isn't the big bulge in the [TS]

00:41:11   middle of things so I still come down [TS]

00:41:13   strongly in favor of magsafe three as in [TS]

00:41:15   have an actual magsafe port on the [TS]

00:41:17   laptops and have a mattock site thing [TS]

00:41:19   that plugs into it just make it a new [TS]

00:41:20   size that fits in I mean if you make it [TS]

00:41:22   the size of us bc then you're like well [TS]

00:41:24   this will last as long as us bc does [TS]

00:41:25   because it's soon as we're too thin for [TS]

00:41:26   us pc we would've been in the same [TS]

00:41:28   situation anyway but instead Apple has [TS]

00:41:31   done nothing including not shipping this [TS]

00:41:32   adapter and as Marco said the one that [TS]

00:41:35   is out there does not get good reviews [TS]

00:41:37   it doesn't mean that it's impossible to [TS]

00:41:39   make a good adapter this means that one [TS]

00:41:40   is not as good as real magsafe was we [TS]

00:41:44   are sponsor this week by jammed now [TS]

00:41:46   that's jamf calm / ATP for jam for now [TS]

00:41:50   which helps you manage your Apple [TS]

00:41:52   devices from anywhere now when you first [TS]

00:41:54   start your business it's pretty easy to [TS]

00:41:56   keep track of your own computer in your [TS]

00:41:57   own phone but that doesn't really scale [TS]

00:41:59   as you grow and as you start to buy more [TS]

00:42:01   tech for your employees it gets a lot [TS]

00:42:03   harder to keep track of everybody [TS]

00:42:05   max iPhones and iPads figuring out how [TS]

00:42:08   to secure for example the iPad that your [TS]

00:42:10   sales rep just lost this can be tough [TS]

00:42:12   especially when you're in different [TS]

00:42:14   locations jammed now makes that and a [TS]

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00:42:49   jam calm / ATP that's jamf calm / ATP [TS]

00:42:55   thanks a lot to Jim for sponsoring our [TS]

00:42:57   show so there was an interesting [TS]

00:43:03   development today as we record this if [TS]

00:43:05   i'm not mistaken which as you're [TS]

00:43:07   listening to this might be like a week [TS]

00:43:08   ago but today it was announced that it [TS]

00:43:12   will it's official itunes podcasts is [TS]

00:43:16   now Apple podcasts and there's new [TS]

00:43:18   badges that you can use and so on and so [TS]

00:43:21   forth and so Jason Snell has started to [TS]

00:43:26   wonder is this the beginning of the end [TS]

00:43:28   for iTunes and what does that really [TS]

00:43:31   mean so I don't I don't I certainly [TS]

00:43:34   don't know I can't say I would be bitter [TS]

00:43:37   if itunes either went away or more [TS]

00:43:40   accurately the app just got split up [TS]

00:43:42   several ways but I mean this is some [TS]

00:43:44   pretty heavy reading of the tea leaves [TS]

00:43:46   what do you think Marco I mean this all [TS]

00:43:49   might be leading to something big or it [TS]

00:43:52   might just be like you know itunes is [TS]

00:43:55   not as strong of a brand as it used to [TS]

00:43:57   be anymore you know we like when they [TS]

00:43:59   launched the new streaming music service [TS]

00:44:01   they didn't call it new itunes music [TS]

00:44:03   they call it apple music they just all [TS]

00:44:05   this call the itunes music 2013 or [TS]

00:44:09   whatever year was president and the next [TS]

00:44:11   year this be called new itunes music [TS]

00:44:12   exactly like you know it could be part [TS]

00:44:16   of some part of you know like a big [TS]

00:44:18   grand like [TS]

00:44:19   toons deprecation plan where everything [TS]

00:44:22   branded as iTunes is is being replaced [TS]

00:44:25   by separate things and that would be [TS]

00:44:26   cool that but I don't think this is [TS]

00:44:28   evidence of that it might be you know it [TS]

00:44:31   I think we will be able to look back at [TS]

00:44:33   this in retrospect if that comes to pass [TS]

00:44:34   and say oh that was the beginning of it [TS]

00:44:36   but yeah right now I don't think we can [TS]

00:44:39   really say anything except that we've [TS]

00:44:41   been hearing rumblings for a while Apple [TS]

00:44:44   is working on some kind of update stoop [TS]

00:44:46   to their podcasting you know division or [TS]

00:44:50   whatever and what and some of those are [TS]

00:44:52   going to be enhancements for publishers [TS]

00:44:54   most of which have been totally [TS]

00:44:55   unspecified so far but we know that [TS]

00:44:57   they're working on something for [TS]

00:44:58   podcasts so this is just one step of [TS]

00:45:01   that in all likelihood just the very [TS]

00:45:03   first step of now it's Apple podcast to [TS]

00:45:05   go along with Apple music I don't think [TS]

00:45:08   this really means anything yet so I [TS]

00:45:12   think this is kind of actually like a [TS]

00:45:13   lagging as the wrong price not a lagging [TS]

00:45:16   indicator but like that this change in [TS]

00:45:19   branding from itunes podcast Apple [TS]

00:45:21   podcast is actually something that's [TS]

00:45:23   overdue like it is catching up to the [TS]

00:45:26   reality and the reality is that on all [TS]

00:45:30   these podcast sites whether you see the [TS]

00:45:32   subscribe and overcast and subscribe in [TS]

00:45:34   iTunes like that's the other little [TS]

00:45:35   badge button and you would hit like that [TS]

00:45:37   the iTunes brand being associated with [TS]

00:45:39   podcast is past the point of being [TS]

00:45:43   mostly nonsensical because itunes like [TS]

00:45:47   we just know it because historically [TS]

00:45:48   speaking the itunes podcast director was [TS]

00:45:51   important for podcasting and it's also [TS]

00:45:53   very important popular authoritative [TS]

00:45:55   index of podcasts these days and it [TS]

00:45:58   happened to hear versed in an [TS]

00:45:59   application that we know as iTunes but [TS]

00:46:00   that no longer has any relevance if it [TS]

00:46:03   ever did to podcasts it barely has any [TS]

00:46:06   relevance to music anymore which is why [TS]

00:46:08   Apple music is called album music right [TS]

00:46:09   that the iTunes brand in all its forms [TS]

00:46:12   both in association with music in an [TS]

00:46:14   application or association with a [TS]

00:46:15   podcast or any other things that it is [TS]

00:46:17   done doesn't make sense in the current [TS]

00:46:21   Apple ecosystem and so to continue to [TS]

00:46:23   have branding and promotional materials [TS]

00:46:26   and website buttons and marketing [TS]

00:46:30   communications and everything with the [TS]

00:46:32   iTunes [TS]

00:46:33   a minute isn't you know is not a good [TS]

00:46:36   idea and they should have stopped doing [TS]

00:46:37   it a long time ago and so now I think [TS]

00:46:39   their branding is catching up with that [TS]

00:46:42   I think their product should also [TS]

00:46:43   eventually catch up with it as well like [TS]

00:46:45   that has it has a lot on the on the [TS]

00:46:47   phone there's still icons on the phone [TS]

00:46:50   that say itunes but the fact that they [TS]

00:46:51   broke up TV app and that apple TV is [TS]

00:46:53   called you know Apple TV instead of ITV [TS]

00:46:55   and that they have podcast broken out [TS]

00:46:57   and you know like I said the rats are [TS]

00:47:01   fleeing the sinking ship of itunes but [TS]

00:47:03   they've been they've been leaving for a [TS]

00:47:04   long long long time and eventually all [TS]

00:47:07   that will be left is this weird bloated [TS]

00:47:09   mac application like it might even leave [TS]

00:47:11   you know iOS homescreen sweet and the [TS]

00:47:13   only thing left will be the Mac [TS]

00:47:14   application and that probably has the [TS]

00:47:16   least resources to ever refactor it but [TS]

00:47:18   I'm all for them both rebranding and [TS]

00:47:22   restructuring this but even if they [TS]

00:47:24   don't do that neva this is just simply [TS]

00:47:25   simple rebranding exercise good because [TS]

00:47:27   it's time to rebrand these things and to [TS]

00:47:29   divorce them from itunes it's a name [TS]

00:47:32   that doesn't have it the only [TS]

00:47:33   connotations the name has for anybody [TS]

00:47:35   who remembers it are like dated [TS]

00:47:36   connotations like oh yeah I remember [TS]

00:47:38   buying my first things in itunes anyway [TS]

00:47:40   now I subscribe to Spotify and when I [TS]

00:47:42   see itunes podcasts like podcasts kind [TS]

00:47:45   of like that old thing I used to do with [TS]

00:47:47   music doesn't make any sense so itunes [TS]

00:47:49   has served Apple well but you know once [TS]

00:47:53   Apple itself has switched its preeminent [TS]

00:47:56   music service away from the iTunes brand [TS]

00:47:58   that's the day the iTunes brand died and [TS]

00:48:00   now all we're doing now is just you know [TS]

00:48:01   letting the rest of the products catch [TS]

00:48:03   up with it I mean I would say it was [TS]

00:48:05   even earlier than that I would say like [TS]

00:48:07   yeah like it did make sense to say for a [TS]

00:48:09   podcast subscribe in iTunes in the early [TS]

00:48:13   days of podcasting before there was all [TS]

00:48:15   this mobile listening when you were [TS]

00:48:17   mostly listening by literally [TS]

00:48:20   subscribing in the itunes app on a mac [TS]

00:48:23   or windows and syncing them to your ipod [TS]

00:48:25   to listen to so that made sense then but [TS]

00:48:29   i'm so painful than those it was really [TS]

00:48:31   I was a bad time and it was great for [TS]

00:48:33   the time you know in the sense like das [TS]

00:48:35   was great for its time anyway so I hope [TS]

00:48:38   it was great with the times I I can't [TS]

00:48:40   here we go there we go so it like so [TS]

00:48:43   here's the singing songs to my ipod [TS]

00:48:46   back in the days like oh you've got your [TS]

00:48:48   your iPod with a monochrome LCD screen [TS]

00:48:50   and a click wheel or you know a [TS]

00:48:51   mechanical spinning wheel like first gen [TS]

00:48:54   ipod putting songs on that by connecting [TS]

00:48:56   it with the firework able to your Mac [TS]

00:48:57   and yet iTunes would see it and syncing [TS]

00:48:59   things to it is clunky but that was like [TS]

00:49:02   that was the tech the problem with [TS]

00:49:03   podcasts is there are they are a [TS]

00:49:06   regularly published thing like they're a [TS]

00:49:09   feed it's not like you put your songs on [TS]

00:49:11   your iPod you put your podcast in your [TS]

00:49:12   ipod you have them there's never any [TS]

00:49:14   putting your podcast in your iPod [TS]

00:49:16   there's always more podcasts like every [TS]

00:49:17   day of the week if you're subscribed to [TS]

00:49:19   a lot of them whereas new songs aren't [TS]

00:49:21   wrong arriving in your iTunes collection [TS]

00:49:23   every day the week unless you spend a [TS]

00:49:24   lot of your time buying music so it was [TS]

00:49:27   so painful to know to have to constantly [TS]

00:49:29   have this mental keep keeping your head [TS]

00:49:32   the state of whatever is on your pot you [TS]

00:49:35   know your iPod Oh when's the last time I [TS]

00:49:37   synced it is the new episode of show X [TS]

00:49:40   on there do I have to sync again did I [TS]

00:49:41   remember to sync before I left the house [TS]

00:49:43   it was a terrible fit and so I never [TS]

00:49:46   remember liking it or as I remember [TS]

00:49:48   definitely liking syncing music onto it [TS]

00:49:50   maybe because my user collection again [TS]

00:49:51   doesn't change that frequently but I [TS]

00:49:53   never liked it with podcast and all I [TS]

00:49:55   can remember is all the times that I was [TS]

00:49:57   disappointed that I didn't have the most [TS]

00:49:58   reviewssan episode of the show I wanted [TS]

00:50:00   to listen to on my ipod at the time or [TS]

00:50:02   you were like you were like about to run [TS]

00:50:04   to the door you're like you lee about to [TS]

00:50:05   be late for work imagine you can't spend [TS]

00:50:07   a 20 minute itunes sync yeah i mentioned [TS]

00:50:10   how many people in the world were [TS]

00:50:11   collectively five minutes late to work [TS]

00:50:12   during that time because they were [TS]

00:50:14   waiting for their ipod to finish syncing [TS]

00:50:16   the new podcast episodes and you [TS]

00:50:18   couldn't tell just just put that one [TS]

00:50:19   episode on it like nope gotta gotta do [TS]

00:50:21   sinking it's gonna be a while is that [TS]

00:50:23   five of seven stop yeah anyway so back [TS]

00:50:26   it did make sense to say subscribe in [TS]

00:50:29   iTunes for a podcast back then but [TS]

00:50:32   because I ain't as you said like because [TS]

00:50:35   the podcast brand was never really used [TS]

00:50:39   on iOS like there was there is the [TS]

00:50:41   itunes app but that's basically like the [TS]

00:50:43   video and movie store right or like it's [TS]

00:50:45   like how you can buy music videos and [TS]

00:50:48   movies on the phone you know that's the [TS]

00:50:51   only place that that the itunes name was [TS]

00:50:53   ever used on iOS so to say subscribe in [TS]

00:50:57   iTunes for a podcast now [TS]

00:50:59   makes very little sense because what [TS]

00:51:01   does that mean to anybody using a phone [TS]

00:51:04   like almost all podcasts listening is [TS]

00:51:06   happening on mobile these days Mobile [TS]

00:51:08   has destroyed desktop and other [TS]

00:51:10   listening you know almost everything [TS]

00:51:12   happens on mobile so if you tell [TS]

00:51:13   somebody with a podcast or if you tell [TS]

00:51:16   pocket listener subscribe in iTunes [TS]

00:51:17   there's a very good chance they don't [TS]

00:51:19   know what you're talking about so I [TS]

00:51:20   think this makes a lot of sense just as [TS]

00:51:24   a thing that they probably should do for [TS]

00:51:27   podcasts and I again I wouldn't read [TS]

00:51:30   anything more into it than that because [TS]

00:51:33   there might be something more to it but [TS]

00:51:34   there's also a very good reason for them [TS]

00:51:37   to have done it on their own we are [TS]

00:51:40   sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

00:51:41   investing made better go to better mint [TS]

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00:52:18   you do the math typical investment fees [TS]

00:52:20   and costs really add up over time [TS]

00:52:22   veterans fees are a fraction of the cost [TS]

00:52:25   of other financial services and [TS]

00:52:26   betterment is so easy to use they've won [TS]

00:52:29   awards for their customer experience you [TS]

00:52:31   can see for yourself by logging into a [TS]

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00:52:34   their website for a limited time sign up [TS]

00:52:36   with betterment and you may qualify for [TS]

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00:52:43   involves risk to learn more visit [TS]

00:52:45   betterment calm / ATP that's betterment [TS]

00:52:48   calm / ATP betterment investing made [TS]

00:52:51   better peter beardsley wrote in probably [TS]

00:52:58   18 years ago and he said a few years [TS]

00:53:01   back when we use sales were slumping we [TS]

00:53:03   were all doubting the future of Nintendo [TS]

00:53:05   John said something along the lines of [TS]

00:53:07   quote as long as there's still a viable [TS]

00:53:09   market for dedicated game consoles [TS]

00:53:12   nintendo can survive these days they [TS]

00:53:14   seem to be doing more than just [TS]

00:53:15   surviving breath of the wild oh this [TS]

00:53:16   must not have been that long ago then [TS]

00:53:17   breath of the wild is a fantastic game [TS]

00:53:19   that turned me back into a believer [TS]

00:53:20   taking into account Super Mario run the [TS]

00:53:22   switch in breadth of the wild what grade [TS]

00:53:24   would John assign the company is he [TS]

00:53:26   bullish about Nintendo's future that [TS]

00:53:28   means you're happy about it right i [TS]

00:53:30   always get bearish or bullish backwards [TS]

00:53:31   yeah anyway how does he feel about their [TS]

00:53:34   upcoming paid online service which I [TS]

00:53:36   didn't even know about well as the email [TS]

00:53:39   finishes the people want to know and now [TS]

00:53:41   I am one of the people so John how do [TS]

00:53:43   you feel about Nintendo I had to give [TS]

00:53:46   them a great i would still give them [TS]

00:53:47   like a b-minus or so and here's why [TS]

00:53:50   first of all the switch is still I mean [TS]

00:53:53   it's doing doing well by all accounts [TS]

00:53:55   but it's still too early to call because [TS]

00:53:56   they're still in the afterglow of their [TS]

00:54:00   launch which launched with one of the [TS]

00:54:01   best games that Nintendo has ever made [TS]

00:54:03   everyone loves breath of the wild [TS]

00:54:05   universally good reviews I love it it's [TS]

00:54:07   great um but doesn't have legs house [TS]

00:54:12   how's it going to switch going to be [TS]

00:54:14   selling like three or four years from [TS]

00:54:15   now is it going to have the longevity [TS]

00:54:16   that you would expect of a console in [TS]

00:54:18   the past let alone the longevity of [TS]

00:54:20   today's consoles which seemed to have [TS]

00:54:21   second lives when you get like the ps4 [TS]

00:54:22   pro and Scorpio and all that stuff where [TS]

00:54:25   it's technically the same console but [TS]

00:54:27   it's a bumped up version like it's [TS]

00:54:28   extending the life like I give these [TS]

00:54:30   consoles more time whereas the wii u did [TS]

00:54:33   not have a long life it was not very [TS]

00:54:34   successful the thing about the switch [TS]

00:54:36   and breadth of the wild that that makes [TS]

00:54:40   me downgrade their grade perhaps by a [TS]

00:54:43   lot in terms of you know making [TS]

00:54:46   dedicated game consoles is brought the [TS]

00:54:49   wild was the game that was originally [TS]

00:54:51   announced for the wii u and it was [TS]

00:54:53   developed with wii u specific features [TS]

00:54:55   so like there would be stuff on the [TS]

00:54:56   gamepad and also stuff on the TV screen [TS]

00:54:58   and motion control for the aiming and [TS]

00:55:01   also show us stuff like that and because [TS]

00:55:04   of the short life of the wii u and [TS]

00:55:07   because of the rapid rapid necessary [TS]

00:55:09   development of its replacement the [TS]

00:55:11   switch nintendo had to change things [TS]

00:55:15   around and take out the wii u they [TS]

00:55:18   didn't have to do this was what i did [TS]

00:55:19   take out the wii u specific features for [TS]

00:55:21   the wii u version because they don't [TS]

00:55:22   want the wii u version to seem like it's [TS]

00:55:24   the better version [TS]

00:55:25   they want you know you want to switch [TS]

00:55:26   version to be the better version and the [TS]

00:55:28   switch doesn't have a separate gamepad [TS]

00:55:30   in TV although if they had designed [TS]

00:55:32   differently could have because you've [TS]

00:55:33   got all the hardware there but it [TS]

00:55:35   doesn't it's got if you put it in his [TS]

00:55:37   little cradle you can see on TV and if [TS]

00:55:40   you hold it on your hand that's where it [TS]

00:55:42   is you don't have a to screen experience [TS]

00:55:43   with switch for this game and so breath [TS]

00:55:47   of the wild as fantastic as it is could [TS]

00:55:51   have been a ps4 game and the exact same [TS]

00:55:54   game it would have better graphics and a [TS]

00:55:56   better frame rate it could have been a [TS]

00:55:58   ps4 game and that has not been true for [TS]

00:56:01   the most part of Nintendo's breakout [TS]

00:56:04   hits in the modern era then intend to 64 [TS]

00:56:08   and mario 64 and the analog stick like [TS]

00:56:12   that is all of a piece you cannot put [TS]

00:56:15   out Mario 64 on the SNES or Sega Genesis [TS]

00:56:19   or you know anything like that because [TS]

00:56:21   the whole game is designed around not [TS]

00:56:23   just 3d hardware but also the [TS]

00:56:25   controllers and other act like the [TS]

00:56:27   hardware the software went together to [TS]

00:56:28   provide the innovative experience Wii is [TS]

00:56:30   an obvious much more modern example the [TS]

00:56:33   wii doesn't exist about the hardware its [TS]

00:56:35   hardware and software together the [TS]

00:56:37   Gamecube I would say is Apple's most [TS]

00:56:39   technologically successful traditional [TS]

00:56:42   console and that it was just playing a [TS]

00:56:43   good competitive powerful console with a [TS]

00:56:46   good controller at a good price well [TS]

00:56:49   designed for profitability just you know [TS]

00:56:53   straight down the middle like basically [TS]

00:56:54   what Microsoft has always done with its [TS]

00:56:55   consoles right in recent years starting [TS]

00:56:57   with the wii though Nintendo has been [TS]

00:56:59   making less powerful consoles and trying [TS]

00:57:02   to concentrate and innovate in other [TS]

00:57:03   areas and the switch is certainly [TS]

00:57:05   innovative with its portable and [TS]

00:57:06   non-portable you know that advancement [TS]

00:57:10   but that advancement does not dictate so [TS]

00:57:14   far for the most part a particular [TS]

00:57:16   gameplay experience especially since you [TS]

00:57:18   I don't even know if you're allowed to [TS]

00:57:19   do this but especially since the games [TS]

00:57:21   that have been released so far don't say [TS]

00:57:24   you can only play this important mode [TS]

00:57:26   because it requires a touchscreen [TS]

00:57:27   they're also playable on the television [TS]

00:57:29   which means you can't make a game that [TS]

00:57:31   requires a touchscreen that is also able [TS]

00:57:33   to be played on the TV and then it's no [TS]

00:57:35   longer a switch is just a portable game [TS]

00:57:38   right maybe [TS]

00:57:38   nintendo will allow people to do that [TS]

00:57:40   eventually but as far as I'm aware for [TS]

00:57:43   now there now I don't feel good always [TS]

00:57:44   just say that I haven't seen any synergy [TS]

00:57:48   between software and the hardware which [TS]

00:57:50   means Nintendo's the advantage I was [TS]

00:57:53   talking about Nintendo like as long as [TS]

00:57:54   they there's a market for a decade game [TS]

00:57:57   consoles content Nintendo can be [TS]

00:57:58   successful and survive because then they [TS]

00:58:00   can do that thing that Nintendo has [TS]

00:58:02   always done which is make an amazing [TS]

00:58:03   product that requires a synergy of [TS]

00:58:05   hardware and software somewhat like [TS]

00:58:06   Apple has you know they had a reputation [TS]

00:58:08   for doing over the many years but breath [TS]

00:58:12   Laval could have been a ps4 game I'm [TS]

00:58:14   probably would've been better on ps4 and [TS]

00:58:15   I would have been happier if breath of [TS]

00:58:18   the wild ran on hardware that was more [TS]

00:58:19   powerful now that's just me some people [TS]

00:58:22   may want a really good portable system [TS]

00:58:23   in which case they don't want breath [TS]

00:58:25   awhile and ps4 they want on switch [TS]

00:58:26   because they love playing it in a [TS]

00:58:28   portable thing on the go and you know [TS]

00:58:30   upstairs in the bed or whatever like [TS]

00:58:32   that makes it a successful handheld but [TS]

00:58:35   again doesn't say anything specific [TS]

00:58:37   about it other than like you know why [TS]

00:58:39   couldn't have been a cut sorry Sony I [TS]

00:58:42   can't remember the name of your stupid [TS]

00:58:43   most recent handheld that is not [TS]

00:58:45   successful chat room what the hell is [TS]

00:58:47   the aveda it's all right the NSX no no [TS]

00:58:50   the vita play playstation vita and did [TS]

00:58:53   they have what was the one after the [TS]

00:58:55   vida god I can't even keep track this [TS]

00:58:57   lag is killing me I think the Vita [TS]

00:58:58   smells reason anyway people who love the [TS]

00:59:01   hand help they're you know they're thin [TS]

00:59:03   handhelds before now I understand the [TS]

00:59:04   switch thing being able to take off the [TS]

00:59:06   little controls and use them separately [TS]

00:59:07   so there is some innovation there but it [TS]

00:59:08   doesn't have the same synergy with with [TS]

00:59:10   the games as other stuff is that it [TS]

00:59:12   doesn't mean it's not going to this is [TS]

00:59:13   very early days saying that you know new [TS]

00:59:17   games are going to come out all the time [TS]

00:59:18   I'll see how they go and there you know [TS]

00:59:21   the switch is successful people like it [TS]

00:59:23   the software is good it can still be a [TS]

00:59:24   successful product but my personal grade [TS]

00:59:28   for it is that they are not they are not [TS]

00:59:30   competitive with the two other big [TS]

00:59:32   consoles the new tenant was always an [TS]

00:59:33   also-ran because they make less powerful [TS]

00:59:35   hardware and within the realm of less [TS]

00:59:36   powerful hardware their track record of [TS]

00:59:39   being able to make innovations that have [TS]

00:59:41   profound effects on gameplay and vice [TS]

00:59:43   versa has been hit-or-miss over the [TS]

00:59:46   years and the switch is kind of like a [TS]

00:59:48   base hit in that people like it and it [TS]

00:59:51   does what it's supposed to do well [TS]

00:59:52   but it seems like it is just a way for [TS]

00:59:55   you to play the same old console games [TS]

00:59:57   that you could always play portably and [TS]

00:59:59   on [TS]

00:59:59   on [TS]

01:00:00   TV which is it's an innovation is that's [TS]

01:00:01   what people like about it like I don't [TS]

01:00:03   have to choose between some cut down [TS]

01:00:04   portable game versus a full fledge TV [TS]

01:00:06   one but that innovation is succeeds by [TS]

01:00:08   being somewhere in the middle it's not [TS]

01:00:10   as good on the TV is the dedicated TV [TS]

01:00:12   consoles but it's better portably than [TS]

01:00:14   some of the weaker powered portable [TS]

01:00:15   consoles also still may my Nintendo like [TS]

01:00:16   the 3ds so it you know it may be the [TS]

01:00:20   right product at the right time and [TS]

01:00:21   certainly I think we can all say that it [TS]

01:00:24   has a brighter future as far as anyone [TS]

01:00:25   can tell them that we you did and the [TS]

01:00:27   wii u was arguing much more arguably [TS]

01:00:29   much more innovative it just you know [TS]

01:00:30   the game sort of never materialized but [TS]

01:00:33   i think this launch and the fact they [TS]

01:00:35   had to make the switch in the fact that [TS]

01:00:36   they have the cut out the features from [TS]

01:00:37   the wii u version so it didn't appear to [TS]

01:00:39   be the better version of the game than [TS]

01:00:40   the switch version are all kind of [TS]

01:00:42   disappointing markers of this difficult [TS]

01:00:46   period in tendo's history but I'm glad [TS]

01:00:48   they're I'm glad they're recovering [TS]

01:00:49   after the wii u and i'm glad the switch [TS]

01:00:51   does appear to be more successful I wish [TS]

01:00:52   them all the success in the world I just [TS]

01:00:55   wish they would the product that I want [TS]

01:00:57   them to make is not the switch but if [TS]

01:01:00   the switch if the switch is what they [TS]

01:01:01   have to make for me to get breath of the [TS]

01:01:02   wild to make them successful again you [TS]

01:01:04   know I can live with it but that's what [TS]

01:01:05   I'm giving them like a bb- so far you [TS]

01:01:09   know it's funny you say that because [TS]

01:01:09   when the switch first came out well when [TS]

01:01:13   we talked about the Sun when the promo [TS]

01:01:16   video or teaser video whatever was came [TS]

01:01:17   out I was like wow that looks are [TS]

01:01:18   actually really cool and then when it [TS]

01:01:20   first came out I thought you know it [TS]

01:01:21   still looks really cool and then I've [TS]

01:01:23   played with with my sister in laws and [TS]

01:01:25   with some friends of ours a couple of [TS]

01:01:26   times very briefly wow it's pretty cool [TS]

01:01:30   and for the last month or however long [TS]

01:01:32   it's been out I've been trying to [TS]

01:01:34   convince myself that I don't play games [TS]

01:01:36   anymore which is accurate that the last [TS]

01:01:39   time I bought a console I played it for [TS]

01:01:41   a couple of months and never touched it [TS]

01:01:42   again which is accurate and thus there [TS]

01:01:44   is no reason to spend a whole bunch of [TS]

01:01:47   money on a switch which I will probably [TS]

01:01:49   use for a month and then never use again [TS]

01:01:51   which I presume to be accurate that [TS]

01:01:54   being said just earlier tonight I [TS]

01:01:56   realized the super useful website I [TS]

01:01:58   stock now which I knew is tracking Apple [TS]

01:02:02   inventory for things like air pods and [TS]

01:02:04   whatnot they actually track inventory [TS]

01:02:06   for the switch and I am strongly [TS]

01:02:08   considering making a trip to a [TS]

01:02:10   neighboring town to pick up a switch for [TS]

01:02:12   myself tomorrow and no [TS]

01:02:13   well part because I know I'm going to [TS]

01:02:14   have a couple long plane rides my future [TS]

01:02:16   and that seems like it'd be a really [TS]

01:02:18   great way to spend some time on the [TS]

01:02:20   plane and so here it is I am the [TS]

01:02:24   antithesis of a typical console buyer is [TS]

01:02:28   which is to say i don't buy consoles I [TS]

01:02:30   don't tend to play video games and I [TS]

01:02:32   feel like this console was made for me [TS]

01:02:33   it may be like it's a successful vida oh [TS]

01:02:36   it's a lot of people that's how they're [TS]

01:02:38   viewing it like it is the best portable [TS]

01:02:40   system ever had because the games on it [TS]

01:02:42   are so amazing compared to I mean get [TS]

01:02:44   credit there it's being pulled up the [TS]

01:02:46   average by having breath of the wild on [TS]

01:02:47   it but you know it's it's like imagine [TS]

01:02:51   if there was a portable system we got [TS]

01:02:52   the best first party titles from one of [TS]

01:02:54   the best first party developers in the [TS]

01:02:56   world that's the switch but I'm not [TS]

01:02:58   interested in a portable so that doesn't [TS]

01:03:00   really help me much but it doesn't mean [TS]

01:03:02   the product is potentially more [TS]

01:03:03   appealing than the wii u which had to [TS]

01:03:05   sit in this weird metal ground but yeah [TS]

01:03:07   I and I'm surprised that you are into [TS]

01:03:10   playing in an affordable in the because [TS]

01:03:12   you have pretty big hands as well and i [TS]

01:03:13   find the size of it is not not conducive [TS]

01:03:16   to my hands obviously i have our eyes I [TS]

01:03:20   issues on top of everything else but it [TS]

01:03:21   just feels a little bit awkward and I've [TS]

01:03:23   been playing with the the Nintendo pro [TS]

01:03:26   controller and it's no gamecube [TS]

01:03:27   controller but it's okay for a [TS]

01:03:30   controller that doesn't have an [TS]

01:03:31   octagonal surround around the analog [TS]

01:03:33   sticks and thinks all the buttons are [TS]

01:03:34   equally important it's okay like it's [TS]

01:03:37   not it's not great but I like it I like [TS]

01:03:39   it better than the Wii U pro controller [TS]

01:03:40   which maybe isn't saying much but it's [TS]

01:03:43   something great episode of hyper [TS]

01:03:45   critical or greatest episode of hyper [TS]

01:03:48   critical it was an episode that exists [TS]

01:03:50   oh wow worst you are the worst which [TS]

01:03:54   episode was that you know offhand yeah I [TS]

01:03:56   know I don't know pinching the harmonica [TS]

01:03:58   it's classic but you don't know an [TS]

01:04:02   episode dumped in in the 50s and the [TS]

01:04:04   52nd I guess all right I'll look it up [TS]

01:04:06   you google for syracuse of pinching the [TS]

01:04:08   harmonica it's gonna be then upon hit i [TS]

01:04:11   guarantee you this sounds like a [TS]

01:04:12   dangerous query i don't know if i'll [TS]

01:04:14   yeah don't do an image search just [TS]

01:04:16   regular tech sergeant you'll find it 49 [TS]

01:04:20   you were very close and we caught you [TS]

01:04:22   saying your own name twice in the last [TS]

01:04:23   week caught me is this a secret [TS]

01:04:26   yes I say I'll say it all day say all [TS]

01:04:29   night all day except that whenever when [TS]

01:04:31   you were having like a whole episode of [TS]

01:04:33   wreckage about how no one presses your [TS]

01:04:34   name right you never said I just don't [TS]

01:04:36   want to encourage him yeah yeah you [TS]

01:04:39   can't give him what he wants you know is [TS]

01:04:40   incorrigible yeah that's a poor Merlin [TS]

01:04:43   mmm don't don't you give him your pity [TS]

01:04:47   he does not deserve it we are with your [TS]

01:04:49   bad cop today aren't you that's how this [TS]

01:04:51   is uh goodness all right so Marco what [TS]

01:04:55   do you think about the switch i mean i [TS]

01:04:57   know that tiff has has gotten herself [TS]

01:04:59   one or well maybe it was for you but [TS]

01:05:02   it's effectively hers i remember what [TS]

01:05:03   the back story was but like have you [TS]

01:05:05   played it at all it would remind me what [TS]

01:05:07   your scenario is with that i played the [TS]

01:05:09   wipeout clone for a few minutes and that [TS]

01:05:11   was fun that's right that's right yeah [TS]

01:05:13   but that's it so far I expect to play [TS]

01:05:15   mario kart probably quite a bit amen [TS]

01:05:18   brother but that's what that is not [TS]

01:05:19   until you know this month i think so and [TS]

01:05:22   also the boy oh boy oh tariffs which I [TS]

01:05:26   know from my sega days as dr. robotnik's [TS]

01:05:29   mean bean machine tetris i will probably [TS]

01:05:31   be enjoying that as well when that comes [TS]

01:05:34   out which i believe is also around mario [TS]

01:05:35   kart time and then whenever there's ever [TS]

01:05:38   a mario game for it i will like that if [TS]

01:05:40   there's ever a virtual console that [TS]

01:05:42   allows me to catch up a little bit on [TS]

01:05:44   previous Mario games as we previously [TS]

01:05:45   discussed I would like that but [TS]

01:05:48   otherwise you know yeah I'm not that [TS]

01:05:51   into it because I'm not that into games [TS]

01:05:52   I'm I'm like you but I've already bought [TS]

01:05:55   it and I've realized that there is a [TS]

01:05:58   Merry game coming by the way in case [TS]

01:06:00   you're wondering they're actually there [TS]

01:06:01   it totally is one as yeah but it's a [TS]

01:06:03   three days one I don't I don't like [TS]

01:06:04   those are the real ones now no yeah but [TS]

01:06:08   it's a 3d everyone else is saying [TS]

01:06:09   finally a real Mara game instead of one [TS]

01:06:11   of these and one of these nostalgic [TS]

01:06:12   throwback 2.5 g things ya know that's [TS]

01:06:14   what i want more 2.5 d to me like that's [TS]

01:06:17   what mario games are like the 3d ones [TS]

01:06:20   always felt like they were they were [TS]

01:06:21   good games but they didn't feel like [TS]

01:06:23   mario games to me they felt like a [TS]

01:06:25   different thing you're so stuck in the [TS]

01:06:26   past no it's just no I know you like you [TS]

01:06:30   too d games you're playing through sonic [TS]

01:06:31   for crying out loud like you I know you [TS]

01:06:33   like to debug I i love the 3d ones [TS]

01:06:36   better and i think [TS]

01:06:37   they're just it's a different kind of [TS]

01:06:40   game yeah I suppose I mean I I was [TS]

01:06:43   surprised by how I talked about this on [TS]

01:06:45   I think it was on rectus how games that [TS]

01:06:49   I loved in the 2d era made the [TS]

01:06:51   transition to 3d and I and I still love [TS]

01:06:53   them even though like you said it is [TS]

01:06:54   totally don't really like Zelda and 2d [TS]

01:06:56   versus eldon 3d very different [TS]

01:06:58   mechanically visually like so many [TS]

01:07:00   things about or different and Mario same [TS]

01:07:02   thing yet I still feel like this is a [TS]

01:07:03   through-line I still feel like it's the [TS]

01:07:04   same game the same kind of feeling the [TS]

01:07:07   difference is that once they went 3d I [TS]

01:07:09   couldn't go back to the 2d once anymore [TS]

01:07:10   it's like well why would I want to just [TS]

01:07:12   jump up and down to D I want I want to [TS]

01:07:14   jump up and down the three year old it [TS]

01:07:16   to me just like it'sit's such different [TS]

01:07:17   mechanics like you know certain games [TS]

01:07:19   like back in the like 8 and 16-bit era [TS]

01:07:22   racing games like like mario kart for [TS]

01:07:24   super nintendo play that game for so [TS]

01:07:27   long it was such a great game but [TS]

01:07:28   fundamentally you were really navigating [TS]

01:07:30   a 3d world it just happened to be [TS]

01:07:32   rendered and crude 2d that was trying to [TS]

01:07:34   approximate but there's a lot of tapping [TS]

01:07:36   because you didn't have analog sticks so [TS]

01:07:38   tapping was all about tapping the d-pad [TS]

01:07:40   right but the point is like you know [TS]

01:07:42   translating mario kart from 2d to 3d [TS]

01:07:45   just made it better it didn't it didn't [TS]

01:07:47   like fundamentally produce a different [TS]

01:07:49   kind of game it just you know you were [TS]

01:07:52   already conceptually moving in 3d and it [TS]

01:07:54   just made it better but a platform game [TS]

01:07:57   is an incredibly different playing game [TS]

01:08:00   between 2d and 3d everything you can do [TS]

01:08:03   is totally different a lot of 2d stuff [TS]

01:08:05   does not work in 3d and vice versa so it [TS]

01:08:08   is a totally different kind of game and [TS]

01:08:10   what made me so sad during the 32 and [TS]

01:08:13   64-bit console era was that all of my [TS]

01:08:16   favorite 2d franchises were basically [TS]

01:08:18   killed off for like 10 years while they [TS]

01:08:21   made 3d versions and that was fine but [TS]

01:08:23   that wasn't it wasn't the same thing i [TS]

01:08:25   know i've had this rank before recently [TS]

01:08:26   i'll stop it here but 2d Mario and 3d [TS]

01:08:30   Mario are different games and for a [TS]

01:08:32   while they didn't continue both and I'm [TS]

01:08:34   glad they in recent years have continued [TS]

01:08:37   to both and I would love to play some of [TS]

01:08:39   those new to slash 2.5 d Mario games and [TS]

01:08:43   buy new I just mean made after the 90s [TS]

01:08:45   so I know they're not new anymore for [TS]

01:08:47   gamers but for me they would be new and [TS]

01:08:49   I would love to play them but I [TS]

01:08:51   wouldn't love to play them enough to go [TS]

01:08:52   like buy a Wii U or something so I'm [TS]

01:08:54   hoping they come to virtual console and [TS]

01:08:56   a switch in some form so you said that [TS]

01:08:59   they're totally different games I [TS]

01:09:00   understand what you're saying in terms [TS]

01:09:01   is like mechanically speaking but the [TS]

01:09:02   reason I feel like there's a through [TS]

01:09:03   line is not so much like how do you [TS]

01:09:07   control it and what is it you know what [TS]

01:09:09   is on the screen and like you know how [TS]

01:09:11   does the game work but sort of the I [TS]

01:09:14   don't know this I don't say the spirit [TS]

01:09:17   of the game but like Mario is about [TS]

01:09:19   running and jumping that that you are [TS]

01:09:24   exercising your athletic ability this [TS]

01:09:27   little character it's going to navigate [TS]

01:09:29   the world that's full of hazzard full of [TS]

01:09:31   things that you touch to kill you pits [TS]

01:09:32   that you fall into enemies that hurt you [TS]

01:09:34   when they touch you and you are running [TS]

01:09:37   and jumping and I feel like Mario 3d [TS]

01:09:40   captured more than any game that had [TS]

01:09:45   tried to do a similar thing before it [TS]

01:09:46   and just why it's such an important game [TS]

01:09:47   captured the fun of running and jumping [TS]

01:09:50   what is fun about running around and [TS]

01:09:52   jumping that's and yes it's totally [TS]

01:09:54   different you're in 3d space the whole [TS]

01:09:56   rules of the world are different like [TS]

01:09:58   it's not like you know you you live if [TS]

01:10:00   you're traveling downward on the enemy [TS]

01:10:01   but if you're traveling up or do you die [TS]

01:10:03   like all this all the mechanics of the [TS]

01:10:05   old game every rule system every sort of [TS]

01:10:07   how it controls in the air how run works [TS]

01:10:10   you know holding down be to run like all [TS]

01:10:12   that stuff went away and was replaced [TS]

01:10:13   with something entirely different and [TS]

01:10:14   yet I still feel like this is a game [TS]

01:10:16   about the joy of running and jumping [TS]

01:10:17   same thing with Zelda which was about [TS]

01:10:19   exploring a world big scary dangerous [TS]

01:10:23   world that you don't understand that you [TS]

01:10:25   know that goes on for a long distance [TS]

01:10:27   that you have to slowly discover the [TS]

01:10:29   mysteries of and collect items and [TS]

01:10:31   become more powerful and eventually [TS]

01:10:32   solve you know solve a mystery and [TS]

01:10:36   defeat an enemy and complete a story and [TS]

01:10:38   the change to 3d was like you thought [TS]

01:10:41   exploring was fun in 2d it's even more [TS]

01:10:43   fun when it's 3d with better graphics [TS]

01:10:45   and breath the wilds as you thought it [TS]

01:10:47   was fun exploring like the idea of [TS]

01:10:50   exploring well this world is humongous [TS]

01:10:52   and you're exploring is no longer [TS]

01:10:53   constrained in the way as it used to be [TS]

01:10:55   all those games feel like yes Zelda is [TS]

01:10:59   about exploration and conquest and [TS]

01:11:02   mystery [TS]

01:11:04   and you know defeating an enemy and [TS]

01:11:08   story and that that's the through-line I [TS]

01:11:10   see even though mechanically speaking [TS]

01:11:12   the game is varied a lot so I think it [TS]

01:11:14   really depends on what you were what [TS]

01:11:17   part of the game you were there for if [TS]

01:11:20   you were there for the mechanics and the [TS]

01:11:21   mechanics change when it's like well [TS]

01:11:22   this is a different game but if you were [TS]

01:11:24   there for the joy of running and jumping [TS]

01:11:26   in this in this new game in 3d even more [TS]

01:11:29   thoroughly embodies the joy of running [TS]

01:11:31   and jumping that you will like the 3d [TS]

01:11:32   games so obviously you know were side of [TS]

01:11:35   that I'm on and that I think I'm at the [TS]

01:11:37   point where i can say i didn't even like [TS]

01:11:39   the mechanics of a 2d once it's just [TS]

01:11:41   that was the best incarnation of a game [TS]

01:11:43   that made it you know that did you got [TS]

01:11:46   to experience the fun i'm running around [TS]

01:11:47   and jumping and then when they went to [TS]

01:11:48   3d i just discarded the 2d I'm like well [TS]

01:11:50   I get more of that here but if you like [TS]

01:11:52   the 2d mechanics the 3d one has nothing [TS]

01:11:54   for years waiting for 2.5 d games did [TS]

01:11:57   you guys play f0 on the Super Nintendo [TS]

01:11:59   oh yeah mostly looking at markup or on [TS]

01:12:02   the n64 frame lock at 60 frames per [TS]

01:12:04   second yeah it looked awesome 60 like [TS]

01:12:07   there there were basically no polygons [TS]

01:12:09   but it looked awesome mm-hmm that's the [TS]

01:12:13   right trade-off for that game yeah i [TS]

01:12:15   would say i just i love that game so [TS]

01:12:18   done much my goodness did i love that [TS]

01:12:20   game i will say they're like I one of [TS]

01:12:22   the reasons why I've always liked [TS]

01:12:23   wipeout and mario kart is that racing [TS]

01:12:26   games are fun but racing games with [TS]

01:12:28   weapons are a lot more fun that was one [TS]

01:12:30   thing I was missed with f0 like it [TS]

01:12:32   always like I enjoyed going really fast [TS]

01:12:34   and stuff but i wanted to occasionally [TS]

01:12:36   be able to fire a missile at kc I [TS]

01:12:38   couldn't do that oh and speaking of [TS]

01:12:42   games like we were playing because I'm [TS]

01:12:44   still playing breath about obviously and [TS]

01:12:46   I got the chance to try out the thing [TS]

01:12:48   that I was suggesting Marco try out but [TS]

01:12:49   that he said he tried and didn't like [TS]

01:12:50   which is breath of the wild as [TS]

01:12:53   essentially a party game we had some [TS]

01:12:55   company over I me like you know a couple [TS]

01:12:58   of adults and and their kids and all of [TS]

01:13:01   us just sitting in the same room playing [TS]

01:13:03   breath of the wild which is a single [TS]

01:13:05   player game together as a party game [TS]

01:13:07   because especially if you have someone [TS]

01:13:11   who's you have the person who ostensibly [TS]

01:13:13   controlling the game but then you have [TS]

01:13:14   an entire room full of poo or have [TS]

01:13:16   opinion [TS]

01:13:17   what should be done next or what you [TS]

01:13:18   should try or just you know laughing at [TS]

01:13:21   the results of the most recent [TS]

01:13:22   experiment because even just playing [TS]

01:13:24   brother the wild single player is a [TS]

01:13:25   constant series of distractions just try [TS]

01:13:27   progressing the story quest you can't do [TS]

01:13:28   it because it's like what's that over [TS]

01:13:30   there Oh what's this all I want to do [TS]

01:13:31   this and you'll find yourself 20 degrees [TS]

01:13:33   removed from what you thought you were [TS]

01:13:35   doing and you're having fun the whole [TS]

01:13:36   time if you have a room full of people [TS]

01:13:37   who are also engaged with that even [TS]

01:13:39   though none of them are actually playing [TS]

01:13:40   telling you spotting something out the [TS]

01:13:42   corner there I you didn't see or getting [TS]

01:13:45   excited about something that happened or [TS]

01:13:46   giving you a suggestion about something [TS]

01:13:47   to try it worked very well maybe it [TS]

01:13:49   wouldn't work well as you could deep [TS]

01:13:51   into the game people start to suss out [TS]

01:13:52   what the mechanics are but for a roomful [TS]

01:13:54   of people half of which had never even [TS]

01:13:57   seen breath of the wild it was hilarious [TS]

01:13:59   and fun and the most fun I've had quote [TS]

01:14:01   unquote playing a video game in a large [TS]

01:14:03   group even though yet one person had the [TS]

01:14:04   controller and it was not me in a long [TS]

01:14:07   time and that's what I'm suggesting [TS]

01:14:08   Marco do with when tip is playing but [TS]

01:14:11   apparently he's still just bored and [TS]

01:14:13   falls asleep and Adam is her co-pilot [TS]

01:14:15   well to be honest Marco's about to fall [TS]

01:14:17   asleep anyway that's true for different [TS]

01:14:19   reasons this is before he went to [TS]

01:14:21   Ireland he was still falling asleep on [TS]

01:14:23   my couch he's an old man he's got a [TS]

01:14:24   beard now he just like it put him on the [TS]

01:14:26   couch in three seconds later his eyes [TS]

01:14:27   are closing he's snoring and then you [TS]

01:14:29   wake up he says I was just resting my [TS]

01:14:30   eyes thanks for three sponsors this week [TS]

01:14:33   betterment jammed and mail route and we [TS]

01:14:36   will see you next week now the show is [TS]

01:14:41   over they didn't even mean to be [TS]

01:14:44   cuz it was accidental oh it was [TS]

01:14:48   accidental John didn't do any research [TS]

01:14:52   Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:14:55   cuz it was accidentally it was [TS]

01:14:59   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:15:03   notes at acp FM and if you're into [TS]

01:15:08   twitter you can follow them at cas eyl [TS]

01:15:14   ISS so that's Casey list and AR 0 a RM [TS]

01:15:19   Angie Marco Arment why are they see us [TS]

01:15:25   at Syracuse [TS]

01:15:33   let's talk about something really [TS]

01:15:42   important let's talk about WWDC lunches [TS]

01:15:46   and indescribable detail so this came up [TS]

01:15:51   a couple of shows ago I forget exactly [TS]

01:15:53   how but I guess was when we were talking [TS]

01:15:56   about the change from moscone to [TS]

01:15:58   wherever we are in san jose and one of [TS]

01:16:03   us might have been me brought up the WBC [TS]

01:16:05   lunches and i think the two of you kind [TS]

01:16:08   of immediately poo-pooed them and I said [TS]

01:16:11   oh really they're not that bad and I [TS]

01:16:13   think John made a joke about all we [TS]

01:16:14   should talk about that in great detail [TS]

01:16:15   another time and and it turns out John [TS]

01:16:18   wasn't entirely joking and a better man [TS]

01:16:22   would not bring this up and say it's a [TS]

01:16:25   stupid idea but I am NOT that man and [TS]

01:16:27   I'm anxious to talk about WBC lunches [TS]

01:16:29   great yeah so this is isaac Goward I [TS]

01:16:33   have scoured the internet so just just [TS]

01:16:35   to be clear we are talking about the [TS]

01:16:37   conference center box lunches for an [TS]

01:16:40   event that is no longer happening in [TS]

01:16:43   that conference center and will no [TS]

01:16:44   longer have this particular box lunch [TS]

01:16:46   series and also the event itself is not [TS]

01:16:50   happening for another almost two months [TS]

01:16:52   from now and this is what we're talking [TS]

01:16:54   about right now I love you guys so much [TS]

01:16:55   two shows worth of mac pro stuff made [TS]

01:16:58   casey willing to talk about literally [TS]

01:17:00   anything else literally anything or [TS]

01:17:03   since I've just finished Parks and Rec I [TS]

01:17:05   will talk about literally anything right [TS]

01:17:07   now are you a mac pro anyway uh so John [TS]

01:17:10   wanted to tell us about WBC box lunches [TS]

01:17:12   yeah so I we were just came up in the [TS]

01:17:16   talking about the conference and things [TS]

01:17:18   that are good and bad about maybe we [TS]

01:17:19   were talking about odwalla and stuff [TS]

01:17:20   like that and here's the thing about [TS]

01:17:23   debussy it's a expensive conference is [TS]

01:17:25   expensive to put on I'm sure it's in an [TS]

01:17:26   expensive city things in conference [TS]

01:17:29   centers if you've never put on a [TS]

01:17:30   conference yourself or talk to any who [TS]

01:17:31   has are absurdly expensive much more [TS]

01:17:34   expensive than you think they are [TS]

01:17:35   because there's a lot of other costs [TS]

01:17:36   built into them Apple usually has I [TS]

01:17:39   think in general pretty good food and [TS]

01:17:43   drink options especially considering the [TS]

01:17:46   scale I'm [TS]

01:17:47   is not like 50,000 people like you know [TS]

01:17:49   a really giant convention but 5,000 [TS]

01:17:51   people there's nothing to sneeze that if [TS]

01:17:53   you're trying to give snacks and drinks [TS]

01:17:54   5,000 people it's really easy to cheap [TS]

01:17:56   out an apple in general tries to do [TS]

01:17:58   better they have like donuts and [TS]

01:17:59   danishes switcher you know reasonable [TS]

01:18:02   quality don'ts ninja some of them [TS]

01:18:04   actually like like Marco mention is [TS]

01:18:05   usually one that's really good i think a [TS]

01:18:06   lot of them are actually really good i [TS]

01:18:07   have no idea how the coffee is i don't [TS]

01:18:09   drink it the bagels are garbage well you [TS]

01:18:12   know in San Francisco come on obviously [TS]

01:18:14   you do get bagels no west coast for the [TS]

01:18:19   drinks when they had our wall eyeball is [TS]

01:18:20   fairly expensive I think high quality [TS]

01:18:22   beverage it's not like they're putting [TS]

01:18:24   out RC Cola for everybody right [TS]

01:18:25   apologies to the rsf fence so I think as [TS]

01:18:29   far as conference goes like they're [TS]

01:18:31   certainly not really the top of the heap [TS]

01:18:34   maybe they're not even above average for [TS]

01:18:36   this view these things I just listened [TS]

01:18:37   but they're they're about average I've [TS]

01:18:39   definitely been to conferences that have [TS]

01:18:40   much better food but also much much [TS]

01:18:41   worse so I think I think they're doing [TS]

01:18:43   okay for all those things by the way all [TS]

01:18:44   those things and also like fresh fruit [TS]

01:18:46   and other stuff that you get out in the [TS]

01:18:47   hallways pretty good also probably [TS]

01:18:49   astronomically expensive if you were to [TS]

01:18:51   add up like how much does this one [TS]

01:18:52   muffin i picked up costs Apple you know [TS]

01:18:54   oh great $27 for this muffin yum yum yum [TS]

01:18:56   doesn't make it taste any better but [TS]

01:18:58   it's not to get the scale of the cost [TS]

01:19:00   much more expensive than you think but [TS]

01:19:03   then we come to the lunches and the [TS]

01:19:05   lunches are not at any different scale [TS]

01:19:06   than anything else because when they put [TS]

01:19:09   out like the snack foods and the things [TS]

01:19:10   like when you're lining up to get into [TS]

01:19:12   presidio for the keynote every every one [TS]

01:19:15   of those 5,000 people or however many [TS]

01:19:16   people are there take something from [TS]

01:19:17   there like the food goes it's not as if [TS]

01:19:19   it's you know that the lunch is it 10 [TS]

01:19:22   times bigger than the snacks they put [TS]

01:19:24   out enough snacks and enough drinks for [TS]

01:19:25   all the people who are in the conference [TS]

01:19:26   if they wanted them all right and so [TS]

01:19:28   lunch is the same deal a lot of people [TS]

01:19:30   go out to lunch you know the same kind [TS]

01:19:31   of ratio I'm not sure what happens for [TS]

01:19:35   the lunch food because it's the same [TS]

01:19:37   problem how do you feed a reasonable [TS]

01:19:39   quality product to a large group of [TS]

01:19:41   people right so you have all the same [TS]

01:19:44   problems of scale and you know packaged [TS]

01:19:47   food versus freshly made you know or all [TS]

01:19:51   the same problems yet somehow for lunch [TS]

01:19:54   in particular they they blow it they [TS]

01:19:57   they are well below average even below [TS]

01:20:01   Apple's own average for example if you [TS]

01:20:02   have ever been to an apple tech talk I [TS]

01:20:04   think the food the Tech Talks is better [TS]

01:20:07   then this lunch food maybe because it's [TS]

01:20:10   not i think even the lunches are they [TS]

01:20:11   give similar little box lunches so [TS]

01:20:12   anyway this is what the lunch is like [TS]

01:20:14   you line up with everybody else and you [TS]

01:20:16   a crest across a big series of tables [TS]

01:20:18   they can do good job with traffic flow [TS]

01:20:20   like you know the lines move its [TS]

01:20:22   massively distributed it's a parallel [TS]

01:20:24   architecture kind of like altivec for [TS]

01:20:25   the old folks you know single [TS]

01:20:28   instruction multiple developer alright [TS]

01:20:31   and as lots of tables with maybe three [TS]

01:20:34   choices you got the chicken the beef and [TS]

01:20:37   the vegetarian option and there's a [TS]

01:20:39   bunch of plastic clear plastic boxes [TS]

01:20:41   that have three areas in them there's [TS]

01:20:44   the main area where they going to put [TS]

01:20:45   the main part of your lunch there's one [TS]

01:20:46   little corner of the thing that is kind [TS]

01:20:48   of like a dessert ething and there's [TS]

01:20:50   like a side dish thing and somehow they [TS]

01:20:53   manage to find the most inappropriate [TS]

01:20:56   things to put inside this vessel but [TS]

01:20:59   their most common failure mode is to [TS]

01:21:03   pick something that needs to be crispy [TS]

01:21:08   or dry in some way and to put it inside [TS]

01:21:11   this container that traps moisture so [TS]

01:21:13   that whatever your sandwich or piece of [TS]

01:21:15   bread or whatever thing is sitting it is [TS]

01:21:16   next to some wet side dish or something [TS]

01:21:18   it seeps into the bread and there's [TS]

01:21:19   nothing worse than picking up a sandwich [TS]

01:21:20   that has been sitting there in liquid [TS]

01:21:22   for a long period of time before you got [TS]

01:21:24   to it same thing with any any kind of [TS]

01:21:26   bread that requires freshness or [TS]

01:21:28   staleness or whatever to you know not [TS]

01:21:30   not being stale to be good that that is [TS]

01:21:32   that the crux of making this dish good [TS]

01:21:33   and you get it with some kind of [TS]

01:21:34   styrofoam like bread substance on it or [TS]

01:21:38   putting spreads on like putting like [TS]

01:21:41   mustard or mayonnaise or other kind of [TS]

01:21:42   wet spreads on the bread but putting [TS]

01:21:45   them directly against the bread instead [TS]

01:21:46   of in between the layers so they soak [TS]

01:21:47   into the bread and for the side dishes [TS]

01:21:51   not much you can do with side dishes [TS]

01:21:52   because it's got to be it's room [TS]

01:21:53   temperature it's not hot but they will [TS]

01:21:55   very often put side dishes that should [TS]

01:21:57   be hot in a room temperature container [TS]

01:22:00   which is the wrong thing to be putting [TS]

01:22:01   their and the desserts like that's such [TS]

01:22:03   an easy win just give us a damn [TS]

01:22:04   chocolate chip cookie put a piece of [TS]

01:22:06   choc cake in there it's not hard like [TS]

01:22:08   these things keep you know you can buy [TS]

01:22:10   prepackaged ones put it put two chips [TS]

01:22:12   too high in like you would kill a [TS]

01:22:13   certain point you would kill for chips [TS]

01:22:14   ahoy and [TS]

01:22:15   said these are like these handmade like [TS]

01:22:18   supposed to be sugary sweet confections [TS]

01:22:21   that are it tastes like you know tastes [TS]

01:22:24   like ashes in your mouth like they're [TS]

01:22:25   just they're just terrible little [TS]

01:22:28   squares of potentially sweet thing again [TS]

01:22:31   also alternately stale and soggy and [TS]

01:22:33   there's no reason there's no reason to [TS]

01:22:35   try to make an artisanal perfect [TS]

01:22:37   beautiful complicated sophisticated [TS]

01:22:38   thing you gotta put in foods that taste [TS]

01:22:41   good and will keep and that's what they [TS]

01:22:43   do on the outside like donuts keep [TS]

01:22:44   dangers keep right a banana keeps auto [TS]

01:22:47   ball in the container keeps but when it [TS]

01:22:49   comes to lunch they feel like they're [TS]

01:22:51   trying to make Lacey's beautifully [TS]

01:22:52   prepared chef's dishes and then [TS]

01:22:54   shoveling went to plastic and let them [TS]

01:22:55   just do there and it is a terrible [TS]

01:22:58   terrible experience and I say this is [TS]

01:23:00   someone who has had probably more box [TS]

01:23:02   lunches on average than most attendees [TS]

01:23:04   who wEDC because I get the BOK lunch [TS]

01:23:08   pretty much every day because I don't [TS]

01:23:09   want to go out and have to come back I [TS]

01:23:10   just want to run down there quickly get [TS]

01:23:12   my lunch eat it and then go get in line [TS]

01:23:13   for the next thing so I eat all these [TS]

01:23:16   things but sometimes even I with you [TS]

01:23:19   know in a hurry to be your tell attorney [TS]

01:23:21   just can't make it just can't make it [TS]

01:23:23   through the food and you just sometimes [TS]

01:23:24   you just take one for full that side [TS]

01:23:26   dish you like all right that's no that's [TS]

01:23:27   it I'm done and eat half of the soggy [TS]

01:23:29   sandwich or you just leave the bottom [TS]

01:23:31   half of the sandwich down there and you [TS]

01:23:33   just eat the top half or and I wish I [TS]

01:23:34   could remember I should have record [TS]

01:23:35   these in film sometimes they don't do [TS]

01:23:36   sandwiches sometimes is other kind of [TS]

01:23:38   lunch things sometimes just literally [TS]

01:23:40   inedible it's like there's there's no [TS]

01:23:42   food to be had here this was I don't [TS]

01:23:44   know what this is even supposed to be [TS]

01:23:45   here be dragons tastes terrible it looks [TS]

01:23:48   terrible it has to be eaten with a fork [TS]

01:23:50   out of this little container and I feel [TS]

01:23:52   like I'm like a spaceship eating in one [TS]

01:23:53   of those you know space food that comes [TS]

01:23:55   out of a tube or something so my topic [TS]

01:23:58   was so worth it anybody's I actually [TS]

01:24:00   don't think they're that bad like [TS]

01:24:03   nothing you said is wrong I'm not [TS]

01:24:04   disagreeing with anything said I just [TS]

01:24:05   think I'm less bothered by it generally [TS]

01:24:08   speaking i find the sandwiches to be [TS]

01:24:09   perfectly acceptable they are not great [TS]

01:24:12   i'm even hard-pressed to say they're [TS]

01:24:15   good they're just fine i don't typically [TS]

01:24:18   run into the bread sogginess problem but [TS]

01:24:21   again I agree with what you said that [TS]

01:24:22   they definitely pair things that that [TS]

01:24:25   will create bread sogginess vortex [TS]

01:24:28   so you are not wrong and also likelihood [TS]

01:24:31   the quality of the ingredients between [TS]

01:24:32   the brit like whatever they put their [TS]

01:24:34   whether it's a cold cut or a piece of [TS]

01:24:35   chicken or some arugula or let us it's [TS]

01:24:37   always like the most the worst form of [TS]

01:24:41   that so if it's chicken the chicken is [TS]

01:24:42   just dry as chalk if it is lettuce [TS]

01:24:44   lettuce is completely wilted you know if [TS]

01:24:46   it's ham the ham tastes like it's [TS]

01:24:48   entirely made of filler and like a pig [TS]

01:24:50   walk by at once I can't continue up dead [TS]

01:25:01   I like so I'm with in case like I don't [TS]

01:25:04   actually like you know I've also eaten a [TS]

01:25:07   lot of these not as many as John has [TS]

01:25:09   died I will usually try to escape the [TS]

01:25:11   conference center for lunch at least a [TS]

01:25:13   couple of the days but I've eaten a good [TS]

01:25:15   number of them and it's me there they're [TS]

01:25:18   always not great but they're always [TS]

01:25:22   better than I expect them to be you know [TS]

01:25:24   I because I I look at them and I have [TS]

01:25:26   very low expectations because they are [TS]

01:25:28   these like you know mass-produced [TS]

01:25:29   clearly well ahead of time is usually [TS]

01:25:31   there aren't room temperature cold like [TS]

01:25:33   the whole box is cold so they were they [TS]

01:25:35   were usually you know I was interested [TS]

01:25:36   in a fridge for a few hours between [TS]

01:25:38   preparation or level weeks you know or [TS]

01:25:40   manufacturing I guess but anyway I you [TS]

01:25:45   know they're they're always to me like [TS]

01:25:47   about the quality of like to like [TS]

01:25:51   modern-day air airplane food on a decent [TS]

01:25:54   airline so it's like it's not as bad as [TS]

01:25:56   you expect and actually not that bad and [TS]

01:25:59   it mostly tastes like nothing but you [TS]

01:26:01   don't really care a like it tastes if it [TS]

01:26:04   has any flavor at all the flavors from [TS]

01:26:06   like the like salad dressing that they [TS]

01:26:08   use to moisten the sandwich and provide [TS]

01:26:10   some flavor like that's really where all [TS]

01:26:12   the flavor comes from so it just tastes [TS]

01:26:13   like some cold lettuce and chicken with [TS]

01:26:16   a little bit of salad dressing on it and [TS]

01:26:18   that's fine and I think the comparison [TS]

01:26:20   airplane food is good because I got that [TS]

01:26:21   same sense from airplane food and it [TS]

01:26:23   taste like it tastes like it's dead it [TS]

01:26:25   tastes like it's from I was gonna [TS]

01:26:28   reference the Stephen King story then [TS]

01:26:29   neither of you have even heard of and [TS]

01:26:31   known as listening those red but anyway [TS]

01:26:32   it tastes like all of the sort of life [TS]

01:26:34   has been sucked out of it and an [TS]

01:26:36   airplane it's a lot about like you being [TS]

01:26:37   you know different cabin pressure and [TS]

01:26:39   recycled air and in a small space and [TS]

01:26:41   all the other things in the [TS]

01:26:42   planes weird right but this is on the [TS]

01:26:44   ground where it looks like a sandwich [TS]

01:26:46   but when you bite it all you can feel is [TS]

01:26:49   the texture and there's like literally [TS]

01:26:50   no taste or if there is taste the bad [TS]

01:26:52   taste and that's what you know and the [TS]

01:26:53   dressing they put on to try to be fancy [TS]

01:26:55   that has made the bread all soggy and [TS]

01:26:56   gross and the bread already wasn't very [TS]

01:26:57   good like all you get is like the [TS]

01:27:00   feeling of eating foam rubber and then a [TS]

01:27:02   momentary tang of the terrible mustard [TS]

01:27:04   spread or vinegar thing that they put on [TS]

01:27:06   it and it's a lot like being on the [TS]

01:27:07   airplane because you buy your twenty [TS]

01:27:09   dollar sandwich and it is like you [TS]

01:27:12   realize the sandwich has become a [TS]

01:27:13   homogeneous solid that it is no longer a [TS]

01:27:15   bunch of individual ingredient you bite [TS]

01:27:18   into it and again all you experience is [TS]

01:27:20   the varying textures of the of the [TS]

01:27:22   things but nothing has any taste I mean [TS]

01:27:24   but I like I've never had as negative [TS]

01:27:27   reaction as you have yep use like I [TS]

01:27:30   they've always I've you know usually but [TS]

01:27:32   I'm eating them I'm paying attention to [TS]

01:27:34   what I'm eating for at most one bite but [TS]

01:27:37   I'm also like usually like thinking [TS]

01:27:38   about what I just saw in sessions or I'm [TS]

01:27:40   talking to you guys or other people who [TS]

01:27:42   are around or whatever else and so like [TS]

01:27:44   I'm not like before I know it I have [TS]

01:27:47   consumed the mass that's in this plastic [TS]

01:27:50   container and I have not given a second [TS]

01:27:52   thought to it and I'm drinking some [TS]

01:27:53   sugary disgusting like iced tea thing or [TS]

01:27:56   something and it's fine terrible I state [TS]

01:27:58   what is a st some I know people like [TS]

01:28:00   that but it's it's lifting canned iced [TS]

01:28:01   tea which is full of sugar why can't [TS]

01:28:03   think why can't they service a proper [TS]

01:28:05   like carbonated beverage why is that so [TS]

01:28:08   hard now I shouldn't be I shouldn't be [TS]

01:28:10   that grumpy no they have other [TS]

01:28:11   carbonated beverages that I just don't [TS]

01:28:13   take them as I don't like I lunch on a [TS]

01:28:15   little bit really bad lemonade is one of [TS]

01:28:17   the choices I really big ice tea is [TS]

01:28:19   there other choice that's correct oh [TS]

01:28:20   they don't have like sodas in there not [TS]

01:28:22   during lunch that's the thing they have [TS]

01:28:24   them out it's snack time but they won't [TS]

01:28:26   do it it can I say four-year-old they'll [TS]

01:28:28   put it on a snack time even without the [TS]

01:28:29   mats for the naps that's when they bring [TS]

01:28:31   it out yeah right but uh but no there's [TS]

01:28:33   no um there's no soda during lunch which [TS]

01:28:35   drives me batty because you're exactly [TS]

01:28:37   right like the real issue here is that [TS]

01:28:39   it's crappy it's crappy lemonade or well [TS]

01:28:42   I don't drink iced tea but my [TS]

01:28:44   understanding is like you guys said it's [TS]

01:28:45   crappy iced tea I mean to be fair like [TS]

01:28:47   I'm not even sure I would call that iced [TS]

01:28:49   tea like there's it's it's just a ton of [TS]

01:28:52   sugar yeah i'm not sure what the tea [TS]

01:28:54   flavor is [TS]

01:28:55   in it I mean they're just like terribly [TS]

01:28:57   sickly sweet sugary liquid yeah it [TS]

01:28:59   tastes very little like actual iced tea [TS]

01:29:01   it tastes a lot more like and like I [TS]

01:29:03   always grab it thinking like I don't [TS]

01:29:05   want all the sugar of soda let me grab [TS]

01:29:06   this iced tea and of course it has just [TS]

01:29:08   as much if not more sugar as most and [TS]

01:29:11   every time it's like that's so sweet but [TS]

01:29:14   no I mean I just don't I've never found [TS]

01:29:18   them that offensive and and I wonder [TS]

01:29:19   John are you just making bad choices [TS]

01:29:20   like normally when you when you approach [TS]

01:29:23   the rows of tables that have all these [TS]

01:29:26   on them usually given about three [TS]

01:29:28   options and it will usually be something [TS]

01:29:30   on the lines of like chicken roast beef [TS]

01:29:33   and vegetarian given that choice John [TS]

01:29:35   which do you pick cuz I'll tell you what [TS]

01:29:36   I would never pick roast beef I would [TS]

01:29:39   usually in that case pick the chicken [TS]

01:29:42   option all right well the only one I [TS]

01:29:43   could say I pretty much never pick his [TS]

01:29:45   vegetarian I pic vegetarian maybe twice [TS]

01:29:47   that of like you know the 30 days I've [TS]

01:29:49   been at everybody see so far my life and [TS]

01:29:51   it has been a terrible mistake every [TS]

01:29:54   time because i doing i'm not like right [TS]

01:29:56   so for the other choices I feel like [TS]

01:29:59   I've rotated pretty well because I'm [TS]

01:30:01   desperately in search or something i can [TS]

01:30:02   find edible so it's not like i'm saying [TS]

01:30:04   if this chicken be Zoey's picture pic [TS]

01:30:06   beef like about 50-50 on the choices and [TS]

01:30:09   I'm not going with what I think I would [TS]

01:30:11   like better if both were made well I'm [TS]

01:30:13   entirely going on like eyeballing them [TS]

01:30:15   and saying does that look like it's [TS]

01:30:17   going to be like for example but like [TS]

01:30:19   I've learned it's best for me to avoid [TS]

01:30:21   or wraps so if I have a choice between [TS]

01:30:23   anything in a wrap and something not in [TS]

01:30:25   a wrap it's best to avoid wraps because [TS]

01:30:27   the wraps really emphasize the [TS]

01:30:30   homogeneous solid thing like whatever [TS]

01:30:33   the constituent ingredients were they [TS]

01:30:34   wrap it all up put it together make it [TS]

01:30:37   all soggy put it in the fridge and it [TS]

01:30:39   just becomes this like giant hunk of [TS]

01:30:41   cookie dough only it doesn't taste like [TS]

01:30:43   cookies and doesn't matter what they put [TS]

01:30:45   in it and so I bizzle be like vegetables [TS]

01:30:47   in their terrible meat will be mixed [TS]

01:30:49   into the thing some kind of liquid or [TS]

01:30:51   mayo and then the wrapping on the [TS]

01:30:52   outside all soggy and cold and all [TS]

01:30:55   completely tasteless so in general I [TS]

01:30:57   avoid wraps and I will prefer avoiding [TS]

01:31:00   the wraps over the particular thing in [TS]

01:31:03   them I have learned that chicken is [TS]

01:31:05   super dangerous if it's thick because it [TS]

01:31:06   has always end up being very very dry [TS]

01:31:08   but other than that I'm willing to give [TS]

01:31:11   almost anything try willing to believe [TS]

01:31:12   that this one is going to be the one [TS]

01:31:14   that is not typically vile and most of [TS]

01:31:17   the time I can get through if is again [TS]

01:31:19   you're sitting there talking to people [TS]

01:31:20   or whatever but I do find myself briefly [TS]

01:31:22   distracted while sitting there eating my [TS]

01:31:23   thing to go this is real this is [TS]

01:31:25   terrible I can't even believe is then [TS]

01:31:27   you just continue going right sometimes [TS]

01:31:28   I just can't get through it side dishes [TS]

01:31:30   have lowest percentage for me it's like [TS]

01:31:32   I'd it's just a write-off I don't pick [TS]

01:31:34   based on the side dishes I assume all [TS]

01:31:35   the side dishes will be terrible that is [TS]

01:31:37   pretty accurate to be honest that's the [TS]

01:31:38   thing is to me the sandwich to me is [TS]

01:31:41   usually ok I agree that that the the [TS]

01:31:44   meat is maybe ham adjacent rather than [TS]

01:31:47   ham the bread maybe a little wetter than [TS]

01:31:49   you want but it's edible it's usually [TS]

01:31:51   fine but in the desert oftentimes I [TS]

01:31:54   don't care for the particular flavor of [TS]

01:31:56   the desert because as an example I don't [TS]

01:31:58   and this may not even be accurate but I [TS]

01:31:59   don't like cranberries so maybe it's [TS]

01:32:01   like a cranberry based dessert and so [TS]

01:32:02   that's that's a KC problem not a dessert [TS]

01:32:04   problem but the side dish tends to be [TS]

01:32:07   pretty esoteric in my personal opinion [TS]

01:32:08   and I agree with you probably four times [TS]

01:32:11   out of five just gets written off the [TS]

01:32:13   one thing with the side dish to me is [TS]

01:32:15   that so it is also a you know the same [TS]

01:32:18   general formula of like will take some [TS]

01:32:21   bland ingredients and we will apply some [TS]

01:32:22   kind of salad dressing to them to to [TS]

01:32:25   generate flavor the main problem i have [TS]

01:32:27   with the side dishes i almost always [TS]

01:32:29   actually enjoy them but they always [TS]

01:32:31   taste completely unexpected from from [TS]

01:32:34   how i thought they should be based on [TS]

01:32:36   how they look because like whatever [TS]

01:32:38   whatever pairings they make between like [TS]

01:32:40   the salad dressing or whatever is given [TS]

01:32:42   the flavor and the ingredients in them [TS]

01:32:44   like it looks nothing like it tastes and [TS]

01:32:47   again i usually end up it's usually good [TS]

01:32:49   enough i usually like it but it I'm [TS]

01:32:51   always shocked by what is in my mouth [TS]

01:32:53   after after I've seen it i also have i [TS]

01:32:56   think one of the things that makes me [TS]

01:32:58   predisposed to not like most these [TS]

01:32:59   things is your super tight especially [TS]

01:33:01   especially for things like side dishes [TS]

01:33:03   except very often they will put things [TS]

01:33:05   inside dishes that I expect to be served [TS]

01:33:08   not not cold or not at room temperature [TS]

01:33:10   so any rice base side dish I know plenty [TS]

01:33:13   of you know people like rice at room [TS]

01:33:15   temperature or their rice dishes that [TS]

01:33:17   are you know room temperature but when i [TS]

01:33:19   see a rice-based side dish I don't [TS]

01:33:22   expect [TS]

01:33:22   be cold I don't want to eat cold rice [TS]

01:33:25   their period no matter what is in it and [TS]

01:33:28   you know same thing for things like [TS]

01:33:29   potato salad can be cold which is fine [TS]

01:33:32   but depending on and what if they make a [TS]

01:33:36   side dish it looks like it's like roast [TS]

01:33:37   potatoes I don't want room temperature [TS]

01:33:39   roast potatoes who wants room [TS]

01:33:41   temperature rose but never mind that [TS]

01:33:43   that the potatoes were probably not good [TS]

01:33:44   the second I came out of the oven but [TS]

01:33:45   certainly I / sitting on a little [TS]

01:33:47   containers doing in a little steamy you [TS]

01:33:49   know Dagobah pit inside there you don't [TS]

01:33:51   let those potatoes and and in the [TS]

01:33:56   embargoes totally right about the they [TS]

01:33:58   taste weirder than you think cuz they're [TS]

01:33:59   not you can't categorize them that's why [TS]

01:34:01   I very often the most most pertinent [TS]

01:34:02   question at any WT lunch table is what [TS]

01:34:05   is the side dish like you can't [TS]

01:34:07   categorize I can say it's green beans [TS]

01:34:09   it's potato salad it's corn it's like [TS]

01:34:11   like sometimes it's a puzzle just to say [TS]

01:34:14   forget about giving a name to this thing [TS]

01:34:15   let's just take for granted this has no [TS]

01:34:17   name can you identify the constituent [TS]

01:34:19   ingredients one there's a green thing [TS]

01:34:21   there's a white thing as a yellow thing [TS]

01:34:23   everyone what do you think the other [TS]

01:34:25   thing is there's a squash is the potato [TS]

01:34:27   is it onion you have to put it in your [TS]

01:34:29   mouth and you're like I'm still not sure [TS]

01:34:30   yeah because it's covered in some weird [TS]

01:34:33   liquid or something I seem to recall on [TS]

01:34:35   it was like chopped up celery and then [TS]

01:34:39   like cubes of cucumber and like onions [TS]

01:34:45   with like a green sprinkly stuff on it [TS]

01:34:49   and then like a cream-based dress it's [TS]

01:34:52   like method you're just making stuff up [TS]

01:34:53   like not that's not anything I don't [TS]

01:34:56   know I don't know what that's supposed [TS]

01:34:56   to be uh and yeah like it's irony I [TS]

01:35:00   never know what they're gonna taste like [TS]

01:35:01   I can't predict which ones i'm going to [TS]

01:35:03   even be able to tolerate but it's [TS]

01:35:04   usually a lot of them as one fork full [TS]

01:35:06   and then it's like never mind that's why [TS]

01:35:10   you save snacks by the way pro tip [TS]

01:35:11   that's why in the morning when they have [TS]

01:35:13   the good danishes and stuff find a way [TS]

01:35:15   to successfully save those in your [TS]

01:35:18   backpack that without them destroying [TS]

01:35:19   all your stuff like pee supper or [TS]

01:35:21   something put this next in your purse I [TS]

01:35:22   don't but what I do is I say bananas [TS]

01:35:26   because they are I don't have a [TS]

01:35:27   container like that but I would love to [TS]

01:35:29   be able to save donuts or danishes [TS]

01:35:30   because those are good right instead [TS]

01:35:32   what I end up saving our bananas because [TS]

01:35:33   they come with their own rap [TS]

01:35:34   and you can put them in your backpack in [TS]

01:35:35   in general just don't forget they're in [TS]

01:35:37   there if you take a banana and save it [TS]

01:35:39   so you have desperation food at lunch do [TS]

01:35:41   not forget that bananas in there because [TS]

01:35:42   if you leave it for a few days at the [TS]

01:35:44   bottom of your backpack that your slide [TS]

01:35:45   in your macbook and out of its a bad [TS]

01:35:47   scene oh my god never has never happened [TS]

01:35:49   to me but I'm very conscious of it you [TS]

01:35:51   know I'm a little sad that uh while it [TS]

01:35:54   did I wasn't able to go to this place [TS]

01:35:55   last year because it shut down i think [TS]

01:35:57   in 2015 but there what was the name of [TS]

01:36:01   that a witchcraft i think it was it i [TS]

01:36:04   mean the thing is it's a chain you can [TS]

01:36:06   get them all over the place but just not [TS]

01:36:07   there anymore yeah there was a really [TS]

01:36:09   good witch craft that was right around [TS]

01:36:10   the corner that i liked i would [TS]

01:36:11   typically go and meet like a buddy from [TS]

01:36:14   apple or someone else i was local at [TS]

01:36:15   wichcraft one of the days during lunch [TS]

01:36:17   there's also a burger place that have [TS]

01:36:20   been to a couple times god I'm drawing a [TS]

01:36:22   blank the name of it there's a couple of [TS]

01:36:23   them that are close to moscone again [TS]

01:36:25   they're obviously a chain and so I'm [TS]

01:36:27   sure they exist other places too but [TS]

01:36:30   there's some sort of burger place super [TS]

01:36:32   duper that is right down the road from [TS]

01:36:34   moscone that's that's very good as well [TS]

01:36:36   I was think of Dave meaning when I see [TS]

01:36:38   it like hey it's that backup burger [TS]

01:36:39   backup burger super duper the backup [TS]

01:36:42   program oh oh I get it I get it I get [TS]

01:36:44   I'm an idiot I got it I think I took a [TS]

01:36:46   picture of that sign to send him last on [TS]

01:36:48   yeah so yeah so anyway so I'm kind of [TS]

01:36:51   bummed that I may not have the chance to [TS]

01:36:53   eat any of those places when like I said [TS]

01:36:55   witchcraft had already shut down which I [TS]

01:36:57   don't get because was so tasty but [TS]

01:36:59   anyway but yeah I I typically eat the [TS]

01:37:03   lunches I think I'm in the same boat as [TS]

01:37:05   Marco in that I do go out from time to [TS]

01:37:07   time but I do generally eat the lunches [TS]

01:37:10   probably three days out of five and and [TS]

01:37:13   I don't find myself deeply offended by [TS]

01:37:16   them I would not say they're good I [TS]

01:37:17   would not say they're great but I would [TS]

01:37:19   not necessarily say they're actively bad [TS]

01:37:21   they're just they just kind of exists [TS]

01:37:23   what is it what do they say about the [TS]

01:37:24   mac mini like it's it's a product in our [TS]

01:37:26   lineup this is a lunch that is in [TS]

01:37:28   moscone I'm with you Casey I was very [TS]

01:37:31   happy with that like I will i know i [TS]

01:37:33   would say very happy that i was [TS]

01:37:35   consistently satisfied by them like and [TS]

01:37:38   that was one thing they had wasn't they [TS]

01:37:39   had this is what you need if you're [TS]

01:37:40   going to be in the business of mass [TS]

01:37:41   lunch what you're getting what you need [TS]

01:37:43   is consistency and and like minimum [TS]

01:37:45   acceptability and i think they delivered [TS]

01:37:47   that [TS]

01:37:48   they they were never great but I'd never [TS]

01:37:51   had one where i should like oh this is [TS]

01:37:52   disgusting i can't eat this like it is [TS]

01:37:54   it was always fine often weird but [TS]

01:37:57   always fought I didn't know you as you [TS]

01:37:59   both had such such a high opinion of [TS]

01:38:02   this because well it's not a forever in [TS]

01:38:05   WC together again if we ever have [TS]

01:38:07   lunches calor again I don't interrogate [TS]

01:38:08   you in real time to say that thing that [TS]

01:38:11   you read let us discuss it in detail [TS]

01:38:13   right now because my opinion of is it [TS]

01:38:16   like i think they are pretty consistent [TS]

01:38:18   like they were consistently below [TS]

01:38:21   average for me like none of I did there [TS]

01:38:24   were no highlights I can think of that [TS]

01:38:25   one time they had the really good lunch [TS]

01:38:27   I can't think of that at all they were [TS]

01:38:28   always below average images question of [TS]

01:38:30   how low like none of them none of them [TS]

01:38:32   gave me food poisoning so I'm not gonna [TS]

01:38:33   say they're like you know super toilet [TS]

01:38:35   that's good yeah that's a high bar well [TS]

01:38:38   I'm pretty sure we found our live venue [TS]

01:38:40   for our next I was at house they like if [TS]

01:38:42   ever there was a purpose for periscope [TS]

01:38:44   forever there was a purpose for [TS]

01:38:46   periscope it's that moment when when [TS]

01:38:48   we're all together and we're discussing [TS]

01:38:50   how bad the wEDC lunches are trying to [TS]

01:38:53   guess what the side dishes right yeah [TS]

01:38:55   exactly so it's an it's a new spin-off [TS]

01:38:58   podcast guess the side dish what is this [TS]

01:39:00   right like everyone's talking about like [TS]

01:39:02   underscores telling us like about so [TS]

01:39:04   about all the limitations of all the new [TS]

01:39:06   API is that he has already found and [TS]

01:39:07   wherever i'll figure out what the heck [TS]

01:39:10   this side dishes that were east so true [TS]

01:39:12   that whatever if we ever figure it out [TS]

01:39:14   and identified the ingredients then we [TS]

01:39:15   have to come up with a name for it yeah [TS]

01:39:17   but this is actually this this has legs [TS]

01:39:19   we should run with this but now in true [TS]

01:39:22   San Franciscan style they just serve the [TS]

01:39:24   minimum viable lunch and that's what you [TS]

01:39:26   get [TS]