The Accidental Tech Podcast

219: Million Dollar Lunch


00:00:00   then i regrab it and go thumb thumb [TS]

00:00:01   thumb thumb thumb thumb anyway max speed [TS]

00:00:03   should be higher all right as usual we [TS]

00:00:07   should start with follow-up and as usual [TS]

00:00:10   we have a PFS related follow-up how do [TS]

00:00:12   we have this every week yes I swear to [TS]

00:00:15   you I'm not like intentionally trying to [TS]

00:00:17   make this a streak it's just it's just [TS]

00:00:18   had happening naturally is this like the [TS]

00:00:20   bell lobby like influencing us like what [TS]

00:00:22   is going on here who knows but live [TS]

00:00:24   Liberty RPF from Twitter writes a PFS [TS]

00:00:26   doesn't support compression yet what if [TS]

00:00:29   I Mac OS you've run something like [TS]

00:00:31   clusters to compress everything the [TS]

00:00:32   filesystem level what do we make of that [TS]

00:00:34   John I hadn't thought of this before so [TS]

00:00:37   there are a couple things about this [TS]

00:00:38   this was a tweet right I'm I also most [TS]

00:00:42   agree my recollection is a BFS does not [TS]

00:00:45   support compression but I would not like [TS]

00:00:48   am I sure about that maybe not maybe [TS]

00:00:51   like it actually does have built-in [TS]

00:00:54   support for the HFS+ compression and [TS]

00:00:56   they just never say anything I don't [TS]

00:00:57   know but anyway assuming it doesn't [TS]

00:00:59   support compression which is my [TS]

00:01:01   recollection at this point it is true [TS]

00:01:05   that on Macs even if you never run any [TS]

00:01:09   third party utility a whole bunch of the [TS]

00:01:12   files that like come with the operating [TS]

00:01:13   system and stuff are compressed on disk [TS]

00:01:16   right and then HHS plus is native [TS]

00:01:19   compression feature they added many [TS]

00:01:20   releases ago and you just wonder get [TS]

00:01:22   read from the file system that gets [TS]

00:01:23   reinflates to its normal size and it's [TS]

00:01:25   all transparent to you know the rest of [TS]

00:01:27   the operating system is just it just [TS]

00:01:29   takes up less room on disk right so the [TS]

00:01:31   AP FS conversion thing iOS anyway is [TS]

00:01:34   like leave all the data exactly where it [TS]

00:01:36   is and just make new pointers to it and [TS]

00:01:37   blah blah don't like move anything [TS]

00:01:38   around I have no idea if iOS uses the [TS]

00:01:42   HFS+ compression feature but I know max [TS]

00:01:45   do and also on Mac there are third-party [TS]

00:01:47   utilities that can wander over the rest [TS]

00:01:49   of your filesystem and compress stuff or [TS]

00:01:51   HFS+ basically oh this file right here [TS]

00:01:53   make it be compressed on disk and you [TS]

00:01:55   know you could write your own little [TS]

00:01:56   programs to do this right so on a Mac it [TS]

00:02:00   is very likely in fact I'm most certain [TS]

00:02:02   that you know one or more files are [TS]

00:02:05   compressed now if a Mac is going to have [TS]

00:02:08   the same sort of in-place conversion to [TS]

00:02:10   a BFS that iOS devices have you have [TS]

00:02:12   kind of a [TS]

00:02:13   weird situation where it can't just [TS]

00:02:15   leave all the data exactly where it is [TS]

00:02:16   because if API us can't decompress stuff [TS]

00:02:18   the can't just leave that data is [TS]

00:02:20   compressed because it'll be scrambled [TS]

00:02:21   garbage after you know a BFS point [TS]

00:02:24   students that here's the file data and [TS]

00:02:25   you go to read it and it's compressed [TS]

00:02:26   garbage a BOS has to either know how to [TS]

00:02:29   decompress that on the fly just like [TS]

00:02:30   HFS+ which seems to me to be the easiest [TS]

00:02:32   solution because then you don't have to [TS]

00:02:34   worry about all these issues that I'm [TS]

00:02:35   about to explain or you have to expand [TS]

00:02:39   those files to their uncompressed [TS]

00:02:41   version which means you need to find [TS]

00:02:42   space for them which means you actually [TS]

00:02:44   have to copy the data to someplace else [TS]

00:02:45   and shuffle things around and now it [TS]

00:02:47   becomes suddenly a way more dangerous [TS]

00:02:48   operation than it was before and in the [TS]

00:02:50   worst case scenario [TS]

00:02:51   someone's got tons of stuff compressed [TS]

00:02:53   with hfs+ compression and their disk is [TS]

00:02:55   almost full and there's literally no [TS]

00:02:57   room on just to expand everything [TS]

00:02:58   because if you were to expand everything [TS]

00:02:59   you would exceed the capacity of the [TS]

00:03:01   disk so I'm hoping that I'm either just [TS]

00:03:05   misremembering or a BFS has support for [TS]

00:03:08   HFS+ compression just transparently [TS]

00:03:11   included and it just hasn't been brought [TS]

00:03:13   up or they told me and I forgot or [TS]

00:03:14   whatever because that would certainly [TS]

00:03:15   simplify things but that's not the case [TS]

00:03:17   it'll be very interesting to see what [TS]

00:03:20   happens with the with the Mac rollout of [TS]

00:03:22   AP FS and in which maybe someone in the [TS]

00:03:25   chat room knows I wish I knew if I OS [TS]

00:03:28   also uses HS plus compression I would [TS]

00:03:30   imagine it would too is I don't see any [TS]

00:03:33   reason it wouldn't do it or maybe [TS]

00:03:34   battery life I don't know chat room says [TS]

00:03:37   it the iOS does have support support [TS]

00:03:39   sure but like do all the OS files [TS]

00:03:42   compressed like they are on not all of [TS]

00:03:44   them but I don't know if if you get a [TS]

00:03:46   phone from a store and just take it out [TS]

00:03:48   of the box are a bunch of the files on [TS]

00:03:49   the formerly hfs+ disk compressed if you [TS]

00:03:53   would done this like a year ago I don't [TS]

00:03:54   know anyway it will be an adventure I'm [TS]

00:03:56   still waiting for the Mac roll out of AP [TS]

00:03:59   FS because converting on it all our [TS]

00:04:01   phones was boring except for the apps [TS]

00:04:03   that broke fair enough [TS]

00:04:05   alright moving on uh we got some very [TS]

00:04:09   interesting feedback via David Carlton [TS]

00:04:11   about WWDC lunches which is the topic [TS]

00:04:15   that keeps on living I love so much he [TS]

00:04:18   linked us I actually loved it as well I [TS]

00:04:20   linked us to the GDC boss-lady blog by [TS]

00:04:23   Meghan scavino skivvy oh excuse me so [TS]

00:04:26   she writes with regard to the game [TS]

00:04:27   purrs conference the other recognizer [TS]

00:04:28   will change this year's lunch we reduce [TS]

00:04:30   the price of conference passes by the [TS]

00:04:31   cost of lunch that box lunch that you [TS]

00:04:34   all know and love in wish you could [TS]

00:04:35   consume five days a week all year round [TS]

00:04:37   is $40 a day she writes I'll give you a [TS]

00:04:42   minute to stop choking on your Doritos [TS]

00:04:44   ready yes $40 a day for sandwich chips [TS]

00:04:47   Apple cookie and water soda I could not [TS]

00:04:49   make this stuff up even if I wanted to [TS]

00:04:51   we decided to give the attendees a [TS]

00:04:53   choice this year spend as much as you'd [TS]

00:04:54   like by buying from one of the many [TS]

00:04:56   on-site concessions or nearby food [TS]

00:04:57   repositories or pre-order in pay for the [TS]

00:04:59   $40 a day meal it is now your decision I [TS]

00:05:02   trust you will make the right one and [TS]

00:05:03   the catch here which I didn't explain is [TS]

00:05:06   that that GDC apparently at the time of [TS]

00:05:08   this writing was happening at Moscone so [TS]

00:05:10   holy smokes $40 a day for that disaster [TS]

00:05:13   yeah I mean this is the the story the [TS]

00:05:16   story with conferences and things like [TS]

00:05:18   this is what any kind of any kind of [TS]

00:05:21   like exhibitor of conferences or if [TS]

00:05:23   you're gonna like set up a booth a [TS]

00:05:24   conference you've probably gone through [TS]

00:05:25   a lot of this crap basically doing [TS]

00:05:28   anything inside of a big conference hall [TS]

00:05:29   usually involves dealing with ridiculous [TS]

00:05:33   exclusive contractors and exclusive [TS]

00:05:36   vendors and possible Union politics and [TS]

00:05:40   what you think these things should cost [TS]

00:05:43   they cost way way way more than that so [TS]

00:05:46   this is like you know food service [TS]

00:05:48   exclusive provider for Moscone provides [TS]

00:05:51   these lunches and Apple pretty much has [TS]

00:05:53   to pay whatever their price is because [TS]

00:05:56   they aren't allowed to bring in food [TS]

00:05:57   from anybody else into Moscone it's that [TS]

00:06:00   kind of arrangement usually it's like [TS]

00:06:01   you know if you're setting up a booth [TS]

00:06:02   for like a small trade show and you need [TS]

00:06:04   like a Serge strip you can't bring your [TS]

00:06:06   own search if you have to use their [TS]

00:06:08   search strip installed by one of their [TS]

00:06:10   licensed people to install it it's going [TS]

00:06:11   to cost you $400 like it's it's that [TS]

00:06:13   kind of thing usually at these at these [TS]

00:06:15   large venues so I'm not really surprised [TS]

00:06:17   to hear this it's it's sad and if you [TS]

00:06:20   ever book one of these things it [TS]

00:06:21   probably makes you angry but it's not [TS]

00:06:23   surprising even when you're not in a [TS]

00:06:25   conference center like it at work we [TS]

00:06:26   have you know food they bring in they [TS]

00:06:28   try to bring like healthy food so you [TS]

00:06:29   have like apples and bananas and stuff [TS]

00:06:31   and I when I first started doing this I [TS]

00:06:34   heard someone throwing around the idea [TS]

00:06:36   that each one of those apples was 2 [TS]

00:06:37   bucks which you know doesn't seem like [TS]

00:06:39   too much but on the other [TS]

00:06:40   and you just look at the giant pile of [TS]

00:06:42   apples be like oh that adds up and [TS]

00:06:44   that's this is in a non-conference [TS]

00:06:45   center environment so in general but [TS]

00:06:47   just getting large amounts of stuff in a [TS]

00:06:51   place where it normally wouldn't appear [TS]

00:06:53   whether it's apples and offices or box [TS]

00:06:55   lunches and at conventions that across a [TS]

00:06:57   lot and then yeah they all be exclusive [TS]

00:06:58   contracts and unions makes it really [TS]

00:06:59   expensive and remember this this $40.00 [TS]

00:07:01   thing this post was from many years ago [TS]

00:07:03   right there was a seven years ago yeah [TS]

00:07:05   so it's probably like a hundred bucks [TS]

00:07:07   now so if you if you do this math forty [TS]

00:07:10   dollars a day times five days WDC [TS]

00:07:13   actually I guess it's four cuz I don't [TS]

00:07:14   serve do they serve lunch on Friday just [TS]

00:07:15   enough yeah okay so five days times five [TS]

00:07:18   thousand attendees which doesn't count [TS]

00:07:20   for all the Apple people that is a [TS]

00:07:23   million dollars on these gods and that [TS]

00:07:26   lunches yeah that's a thing when you [TS]

00:07:28   have these kind of like you know special [TS]

00:07:30   special venues a special deal with [TS]

00:07:32   everybody and restrictions on you doing [TS]

00:07:33   anything else I mean they can charge [TS]

00:07:35   kind of whatever they want by the way [TS]

00:07:37   see also weddings and hospitals well [TS]

00:07:39   it's bad right so I think that's it for [TS]

00:07:42   follow up surprisingly this is a miracle [TS]

00:07:44   I don't know what to make of this now I [TS]

00:07:46   I have some alternative topics we could [TS]

00:07:49   put in follow up copyright 2011 John [TS]

00:07:51   siracusa but I think you have to did [TS]

00:07:53   pretty well defending Plex onconnected [TS]

00:07:55   yeah well yeah that was that was [TS]

00:07:57   intended for follow up here but I [TS]

00:07:59   actually did a guest spot on connected [TS]

00:08:02   earlier this week and we'll put a link [TS]

00:08:05   in the show notes if you don't listen [TS]

00:08:06   connected our dear friend of the show [TS]

00:08:08   Federico vtg slandered the Plex name and [TS]

00:08:11   in in not the latest episode but the [TS]

00:08:14   prior one and this could not stand and [TS]

00:08:16   as such I was planning on a probably 15 [TS]

00:08:20   or 20 minute follow-up section were [TS]

00:08:22   really a follow out copyright 2015 or 16 [TS]

00:08:25   Jason Snell built upon the work [TS]

00:08:28   copyright 2010 John Surtees anyway [TS]

00:08:30   during I was he has a derivative work [TS]

00:08:32   III had planned on doing some follow out [TS]

00:08:35   with regard to connected with in their [TS]

00:08:38   thoughts on Plex but I was asked [TS]

00:08:40   probably out of desperation because Mike [TS]

00:08:42   was not in town I was asked to guest on [TS]

00:08:44   the beginning of the latest episode [TS]

00:08:46   which I will put a link in the show [TS]

00:08:47   notes like I said it's at the very [TS]

00:08:48   beginning of the episode and I kind of [TS]

00:08:50   talk about what makes Plex awesome and [TS]

00:08:52   why it's not nearly as hard to use as [TS]

00:08:53   you would expect [TS]

00:08:54   if you're at all interested in that I do [TS]

00:08:57   encourage you to check it out but yeah [TS]

00:08:59   because of that our follow up in this [TS]

00:09:00   show including follow out is pretty much [TS]

00:09:03   done I will say since we're talking [TS]

00:09:05   about Plex anyway alright here we go [TS]

00:09:07   this is how we always get there one big [TS]

00:09:09   thing that I that I don't think you guys [TS]

00:09:11   really covered enough that I wanted to [TS]

00:09:13   point it because I I was also a Plex [TS]

00:09:15   skeptic for years Casey would always bug [TS]

00:09:19   me about how great it was and why do I [TS]

00:09:21   do this and tell me all the great things [TS]

00:09:23   that well you know if you had Plex you [TS]

00:09:24   wouldn't have this problem right now and [TS]

00:09:26   and one of the the great values to me of [TS]

00:09:29   Plex in a world where we can stream [TS]

00:09:32   pretty much everything we want all the [TS]

00:09:33   time and that is when you have children [TS]

00:09:37   and the children really want to watch a [TS]

00:09:41   specific thing wet you know at a certain [TS]

00:09:43   time that they do that every day and if [TS]

00:09:45   you if this thing is not available for [TS]

00:09:47   kids it's going to cause problems for [TS]

00:09:49   the parents and there's lots of times in [TS]

00:09:52   life to teach your kids they can't [TS]

00:09:53   always get what they want but a lot of [TS]

00:09:56   times you don't want to have that [TS]

00:09:57   discussion right now you just want to [TS]

00:09:59   give the kid the TV show they wanted to [TS]

00:10:01   watch so you can go wash the dishes or [TS]

00:10:03   something and sometimes internet [TS]

00:10:07   connections go down sometimes iTunes [TS]

00:10:10   freaks out and won't authorize anything [TS]

00:10:11   sometimes things break in the online [TS]

00:10:14   world and it is really really nice when [TS]

00:10:17   that happens which is rare but when that [TS]

00:10:19   does happen it's really nice to have [TS]

00:10:22   Plex running in your home and everything [TS]

00:10:24   you need to play the media you want to [TS]

00:10:27   play is on your local network and DRM [TS]

00:10:29   free and that means there is no reliance [TS]

00:10:32   on your FiOS being out or not out [TS]

00:10:35   there's no reliance on the Apple DRM [TS]

00:10:37   servers authorizing you to watch what [TS]

00:10:40   you paid for or not it's just playing a [TS]

00:10:42   file off a network share and it just [TS]

00:10:44   works [TS]

00:10:44   and that's really really nice when you [TS]

00:10:47   need it yep and if you have friends [TS]

00:10:50   which also have Plex servers and [TS]

00:10:53   accounts and whatnot you can stream from [TS]

00:10:55   each other so I've been amassing a [TS]

00:10:58   collection of Daniel Tiger and paw [TS]

00:11:00   Patrol and things of that nature and so [TS]

00:11:02   these are probably beneath Adam at this [TS]

00:11:04   point but hypothetically if Adam wanted [TS]

00:11:07   paw Patrol [TS]

00:11:08   and and it isn't on Netflix or iTunes is [TS]

00:11:10   down whatever the case may be [TS]

00:11:12   Marco can hop on Plex tell Plex don't [TS]

00:11:15   look at my local server look at Casey's [TS]

00:11:17   server and and he can stream that [TS]

00:11:19   directly from me to him which is really [TS]

00:11:22   awesome and so once you've built up a [TS]

00:11:24   kind of quote-unquote network of you [TS]

00:11:27   know a few friends that all have media [TS]

00:11:28   it's it's actually kind of your own [TS]

00:11:30   personal Netflix it's it's really [TS]

00:11:33   phenomenal and really really cool we are [TS]

00:11:36   sponsored this week by fracture go to [TS]

00:11:39   fracture me.com slash podcast and select [TS]

00:11:42   ATP there so they know you came from [TS]

00:11:43   here fracture is a photo decor company [TS]

00:11:46   they are out to rescue your favorite [TS]

00:11:48   images from the digital ether and here's [TS]

00:11:50   how to do that they print beautiful [TS]

00:11:52   photo prints in vivid color on two [TS]

00:11:55   sheets of glass that hang on your wall [TS]

00:11:57   or stand up on your desk it is really [TS]

00:12:00   just they they print your photos on [TS]

00:12:02   these nice thin panes of glass and you [TS]

00:12:05   just hang that on your wall and the [TS]

00:12:07   photos go edge to edge there's no frame [TS]

00:12:09   there's no frame needed even the photos [TS]

00:12:12   are their own standalone objects that go [TS]

00:12:15   edge to edge with the print and it looks [TS]

00:12:17   so clean and modern to just have the [TS]

00:12:19   photo across the whole expanse they make [TS]

00:12:22   great gifts as well you know Mother's [TS]

00:12:24   Day is right around the corner you can [TS]

00:12:26   get you know suppose you have kids and [TS]

00:12:27   you want to get pictures you know of [TS]

00:12:29   your kids for your mother or for maybe [TS]

00:12:31   their grandmother it's a great gift idea [TS]

00:12:34   for all sorts of occasions friends [TS]

00:12:36   family and these things just look great [TS]

00:12:38   around the house we have them all over [TS]

00:12:40   our house and we get compliments every [TS]

00:12:42   time somebody comes over and say hey [TS]

00:12:44   what's that is that a fracture if [TS]

00:12:46   they've heard of it like it they just [TS]

00:12:47   look fantastic these great photo prints [TS]

00:12:50   and they really want you to get those [TS]

00:12:52   photos out of the social media feeds [TS]

00:12:54   that they kind of get stuck in because [TS]

00:12:55   if you know you post a great picture to [TS]

00:12:58   Facebook or Instagram or whatever and [TS]

00:12:59   then in eight hours it's gone you'll [TS]

00:13:02   like never see it again because it's off [TS]

00:13:03   the end of the timeline get those best [TS]

00:13:05   photos out get them printed by fracture [TS]

00:13:07   it looks great [TS]

00:13:08   they look great either in your house or [TS]

00:13:09   in somebody else's as a gift [TS]

00:13:11   go to fracture me comm slash podcast and [TS]

00:13:15   then there's a little picker to say what [TS]

00:13:16   show you came from make sure you pick a [TS]

00:13:18   teepee on that list so that we get [TS]

00:13:20   credit and they know that you came from [TS]

00:13:21   here [TS]

00:13:22   and I highly recommend you check out [TS]

00:13:24   fracture great photo prints directly on [TS]

00:13:26   glass great prices and great gifts to [TS]

00:13:28   fracture me calm slash podcast thank you [TS]

00:13:31   very much to fracture for sponsoring our [TS]

00:13:33   show we also have some show news we do [TS]

00:13:40   we very much do this is super exciting [TS]

00:13:42   I'm very pumped about this tell us [TS]

00:13:43   what's going on Marco alright so we are [TS]

00:13:46   doing a live show at WWDC so on Monday [TS]

00:13:50   June 5th and everybody see week we are [TS]

00:13:53   doing a live show at all calm all conf [TS]

00:13:56   is this community run conference that [TS]

00:13:59   happens like across or down the street [TS]

00:14:00   from WTC has happened for what three or [TS]

00:14:04   four years now at least right but I'm [TS]

00:14:05   kind of a while mm-hm yeah and the way [TS]

00:14:07   out conf works is the conference is [TS]

00:14:09   totally you know community run and it's [TS]

00:14:12   you it's free for the most part you can [TS]

00:14:15   you can pay optionally if you want to to [TS]

00:14:17   get like priority in line but otherwise [TS]

00:14:20   it's free and there's you know great [TS]

00:14:22   diverse talks and its really a great [TS]

00:14:25   event for the community anyway we wanted [TS]

00:14:27   to do a live show this year and they had [TS]

00:14:29   this great thing where they invite they [TS]

00:14:32   invite the community to come you know [TS]

00:14:34   use their venue and bring talks and [TS]

00:14:37   content to all conf we decided to take [TS]

00:14:40   them up on that offer and we concert in [TS]

00:14:42   this past week and a rings are pretty [TS]

00:14:43   pretty quickly actually and so we are [TS]

00:14:46   doing a live show in alt conf and it's [TS]

00:14:49   going to be separately ticketed mostly [TS]

00:14:52   for the purposes of just capacity [TS]

00:14:53   management but the tickets are just 5 [TS]

00:14:56   bucks it's basically just like to make [TS]

00:14:58   sure that people actually are serious [TS]

00:15:00   when they book them so we know how many [TS]

00:15:01   people are coming so we know how big to [TS]

00:15:02   make the room and then we're working on [TS]

00:15:05   maybe we can donate that money to [TS]

00:15:06   something useful and then the show is [TS]

00:15:08   going to be Monday from 5 to 7 p.m. so [TS]

00:15:11   the idea here is to be after the WDC [TS]

00:15:14   State of the Union address which usually [TS]

00:15:16   runs until 4:00 or 4:30 but before [TS]

00:15:19   anybody's dinner plans or Tim [TS]

00:15:22   Dalrymple's beard bash or other things [TS]

00:15:23   that might be happening on Monday night [TS]

00:15:24   so 5 to 7 p.m. live show WTC Monday June [TS]

00:15:29   5th at all conf go to is it all calm [TS]

00:15:33   calm it is all calm calm okay [TS]

00:15:36   and yeah so we we look forward to it [TS]

00:15:39   it's going to be you know it's it's not [TS]

00:15:41   going to be like any kind of a tragus [TS]

00:15:43   thing where we have like Tim Cook on or [TS]

00:15:44   anything I don't mean we could try but I [TS]

00:15:46   don't think we'll get him just just a [TS]

00:15:48   hunch but but I'm looking forward to [TS]

00:15:51   we're going to just you know we're going [TS]

00:15:52   to basically just do this in front of a [TS]

00:15:54   live audience of between 100 and a [TS]

00:15:57   thousand people depending on how many [TS]

00:15:58   people respond to I I do expect to [TS]

00:16:03   stream it live when you say that you [TS]

00:16:05   mean audio only by is your expectation [TS]

00:16:08   yes audio I don't think we have any kind [TS]

00:16:10   of video set up I do have the audio set [TS]

00:16:13   up to stream it live if Internet [TS]

00:16:16   connectivity holds out and that's a huge [TS]

00:16:18   if at conference so I don't want to [TS]

00:16:19   guarantee it because basically I will be [TS]

00:16:21   trying to get some kind of connection [TS]

00:16:23   out of a very very full room in a venue [TS]

00:16:27   I've never been in a city I've never [TS]

00:16:28   been in so it's hard to predict whether [TS]

00:16:32   or not I will be able to maintain an [TS]

00:16:33   audio livestream but I'll do my best [TS]

00:16:35   otherwise we look forward to it so yeah [TS]

00:16:37   if you want to come go book a ticket now [TS]

00:16:39   we will put the link in the show notes [TS]

00:16:41   and so yeah thanks to all con for [TS]

00:16:44   working with us on this because you know [TS]

00:16:46   what we wanted to really was just like [TS]

00:16:48   we we want to do a live show but we [TS]

00:16:50   didn't want to go through like the [TS]

00:16:52   massive ordeal and and hassle and risk [TS]

00:16:55   of booking a whole venue ourselves it's [TS]

00:16:57   a ton of work to do that and I highly [TS]

00:16:59   respect the podcasts that do that we [TS]

00:17:01   don't have that in us and we could [TS]

00:17:04   barely get t-shirts for sale so so we [TS]

00:17:07   found a great arrangement with all cough [TS]

00:17:09   that worked out well for all of us and [TS]

00:17:11   we hope to see you there yep it's it's [TS]

00:17:14   super exciting most of the three of us [TS]

00:17:17   are very excited about it so please if [TS]

00:17:20   you are interested at all in doing this [TS]

00:17:21   and you think you will be there please [TS]

00:17:24   go ahead and get yourself ticket buy [TS]

00:17:26   ticket and do it now just like the [TS]

00:17:28   t-shirts to be clear the live show that [TS]

00:17:31   we're doing like it's live show you can [TS]

00:17:33   come see us live we're going to try to [TS]

00:17:34   stream it and the main thing that will [TS]

00:17:37   probably prevent streaming is the fact [TS]

00:17:38   that if the stream craps out Marco can't [TS]

00:17:39   fix it because he's on stage so oh well [TS]

00:17:41   but we're also releasing it as a regular [TS]

00:17:44   episode this will be our regular WWDC [TS]

00:17:46   episode oh yeah like the point in most [TS]

00:17:48   years like we just record this [TS]

00:17:50   Margot's hotel room or whatever you know [TS]

00:17:51   we're releasing this episode so don't [TS]

00:17:53   feel like oh I'm not going to W ever CLM [TS]

00:17:54   this is when you won't miss it it will [TS]

00:17:55   be that week's episode [TS]

00:17:57   you just want get to see it or hear it [TS]

00:17:58   live that's it excellent point so news [TS]

00:18:01   this week we've spent a little while [TS]

00:18:03   since we've spoken to each other I've [TS]

00:18:05   missed you too deeply but one thing I [TS]

00:18:07   might be missing soon is touch ID in the [TS]

00:18:09   front of my phone because there have [TS]

00:18:11   been some very interesting hardware [TS]

00:18:15   specs and photographs that have linked a [TS]

00:18:16   dead of leaked that indicate the touch [TS]

00:18:19   ID sensor in the supposed I phone eight [TS]

00:18:22   maybe on the back of the phone under the [TS]

00:18:26   Apple logo and the internet is not happy [TS]

00:18:32   about this from what I can tell I don't [TS]

00:18:35   I don't really know what I make of it [TS]

00:18:37   yet I've never really used a phone with [TS]

00:18:39   the fingerprint sensor on the back [TS]

00:18:41   however pretty much anyone that I know [TS]

00:18:44   that has used an Android phone with any [TS]

00:18:46   regularity has said that it's fine in [TS]

00:18:50   fact some of them have even said they [TS]

00:18:51   prefer it even having had used both so [TS]

00:18:54   um I'm kind of whatever about this it's [TS]

00:18:58   not something I feel like I want but I [TS]

00:19:00   think I can roll with it just fine I you [TS]

00:19:02   know I feel the same way about this as I [TS]

00:19:04   did about the lock button moving from [TS]

00:19:08   the top to the right hand side of the [TS]

00:19:09   phone not really something I want I'm [TS]

00:19:11   sure I'll get over it and that's exactly [TS]

00:19:13   how it turned out not really something I [TS]

00:19:15   wanted I got over pretty quick so Marco [TS]

00:19:17   how do you feel about this I'm kind of [TS]

00:19:20   the same way I've never used a phone [TS]

00:19:21   with it on the back and I think I get [TS]

00:19:23   used to it it would be fine but I think [TS]

00:19:26   on the front would be better and I think [TS]

00:19:28   it's more interesting that we don't seem [TS]

00:19:31   to have a clear picture yet and that [TS]

00:19:33   maybe Apple doesn't seem to have a clear [TS]

00:19:34   picture yet that is merging because it's [TS]

00:19:36   getting pretty late in the year for [TS]

00:19:39   these kind of decisions to not be made [TS]

00:19:40   yet like at that point of clarification [TS]

00:19:43   that we needed on this because in the [TS]

00:19:45   beginning case you said the the touch ID [TS]

00:19:47   sensor is on the back under the Apple [TS]

00:19:48   logo and that actually can be [TS]

00:19:50   interpreted in multiple ways [TS]

00:19:52   oh the way that has been suggested so [TS]

00:19:54   what's alright what he was referring to [TS]

00:19:56   is that you look at the link we'll put [TS]

00:19:58   in the show notes so 95 Mac or whatever [TS]

00:20:00   the shows a picture of the suppose [TS]

00:20:01   barclayc so if you look at the back of [TS]

00:20:03   an iphone via there's an Apple logo on [TS]

00:20:05   the back but the Apple logo is towards [TS]

00:20:07   the top of the phone right when he says [TS]

00:20:09   under the Apple logo he means go down [TS]

00:20:12   about an inch from that and pretty much [TS]

00:20:14   dead center in the back of the phone [TS]

00:20:16   below the Apple logo like lower down on [TS]

00:20:18   the phone than the Apple logo there's a [TS]

00:20:20   circular opening and that's where touch [TS]

00:20:21   ID would be a lot of people suggest it [TS]

00:20:23   hey if you're going to put something on [TS]

00:20:25   the back of the phone why don't you make [TS]

00:20:27   the Apple logo also the touch ID sensor [TS]

00:20:29   obviously the the problems there that [TS]

00:20:31   it's not really shaped like a circle and [TS]

00:20:33   you know it might be hard to get a [TS]

00:20:34   sensor that kind of fills that area and [TS]

00:20:36   still looks nice and blah blah blah and [TS]

00:20:39   maybe it's positioned wrong maybe you [TS]

00:20:40   actually do want it more towards the [TS]

00:20:41   center instead of high up and so there's [TS]

00:20:43   all sorts of aesthetic and functional [TS]

00:20:45   decisions that may make them not want to [TS]

00:20:47   put the touch ID sensor literally in the [TS]

00:20:49   Apple logo but the part sleeks show [TS]

00:20:51   there's a cutout for the Apple logo and [TS]

00:20:52   then inch lower there's a circular [TS]

00:20:54   cutout for the touch ID sensor so what [TS]

00:20:56   do you thoughts on this job well in [TS]

00:21:00   these these parts leaks we're getting [TS]

00:21:03   into parts leaked season and I have a [TS]

00:21:07   hard time dismissing these as complete [TS]

00:21:10   fakes or ridiculous things because [TS]

00:21:12   they're starting to look starting to [TS]

00:21:15   look pretty real to me at the very least [TS]

00:21:17   a real thing that was made by somebody [TS]

00:21:20   for some purpose probably Apple some [TS]

00:21:25   people in the chat room are saying [TS]

00:21:26   there's no way Apple will do this [TS]

00:21:27   they'll never do this because it's not [TS]

00:21:28   an Apple thing to do I totally disagree [TS]

00:21:30   with that Apple would 100% do this [TS]

00:21:32   whether they are going to do it or not I [TS]

00:21:34   guess you know as every week advances [TS]

00:21:37   these things these rumors be the cement [TS]

00:21:39   or they will just go away we won't see [TS]

00:21:41   it anymore [TS]

00:21:41   but remember this is the phone we're [TS]

00:21:43   talking about that's supposed to get rid [TS]

00:21:44   of the chin and forehead more or less [TS]

00:21:46   and make the screen go from top to [TS]

00:21:47   bottom edge to edge much more so than it [TS]

00:21:50   does now leaving no room for even the [TS]

00:21:52   completely immobile touch ID button on [TS]

00:21:54   the iPhone 7 there won't even be room [TS]

00:21:56   for a non-moving but no to speech screen [TS]

00:21:58   everywhere and so you know the earlier [TS]

00:22:01   rumors were like Oh it'll be screen [TS]

00:22:02   everywhere and in fact the home button [TS]

00:22:04   and touch ID will also be in the screen [TS]

00:22:06   you can kind of see how they could put [TS]

00:22:08   the home button in the screen because we [TS]

00:22:09   already have a home button it doesn't [TS]

00:22:11   move right and there's a little [TS]

00:22:12   indentation for it which is better than [TS]

00:22:14   being no indentation [TS]

00:22:15   that's another sort of ergonomic issue [TS]

00:22:16   of like how do I find the home button if [TS]

00:22:18   there's no little indentation for my [TS]

00:22:19   thumb biggest guys feel for the middle [TS]

00:22:21   of the phone or maybe the whole bottom [TS]

00:22:22   of the phone is like a home button and I [TS]

00:22:24   just force press somewhere near the [TS]

00:22:26   bottom and it takes me home whatever but [TS]

00:22:28   the touch ID sensor the the the rumors [TS]

00:22:32   were supposed to like oh it turned out [TS]

00:22:33   to be harder than they thought to get a [TS]

00:22:36   touch ID sensor inside a screen because [TS]

00:22:38   the screen has lights that come out of [TS]

00:22:39   in the touch ID sensor you know it's [TS]

00:22:40   like sensor and screen are not the same [TS]

00:22:42   things how do they combine them in a way [TS]

00:22:43   that the touch ID sensor works and all [TS]

00:22:45   these recent part leaks are part of the [TS]

00:22:48   narrative they're like oh they couldn't [TS]

00:22:49   get that to work this year so instead [TS]

00:22:51   they're putting it on the back and you [TS]

00:22:55   know people have Android phones with [TS]

00:22:56   touch ID sensor on the back and they're [TS]

00:22:57   saying like it's fine it's whatever like [TS]

00:22:59   obviously if you put your phone down on [TS]

00:23:00   the table [TS]

00:23:01   now you can't unlock it unless you put [TS]

00:23:03   it facedown but then when you unlock it [TS]

00:23:05   it's no good as you can see the screen [TS]

00:23:06   anyway right you know so that's the one [TS]

00:23:08   disadvantage - people talk about with it [TS]

00:23:11   being on the back but otherwise like [TS]

00:23:12   urgh anomic lee speaking it's probably [TS]

00:23:16   better easier to hit the touch ID on the [TS]

00:23:19   back that it is touch ID that's at the [TS]

00:23:21   very very edge of your phone you know [TS]

00:23:23   what I mean like it's like if you had to [TS]

00:23:24   pick where is the best place to put a [TS]

00:23:26   fingerprint sensor on on a on a you know [TS]

00:23:28   a featureless rectangle you wouldn't say [TS]

00:23:31   let me put it on the very very bottom [TS]

00:23:32   edge because you kind of got to shimmy [TS]

00:23:34   your hand down you kind of pinching it [TS]

00:23:35   from the edge you could certainly get a [TS]

00:23:37   more secure grip if it's hot - these [TS]

00:23:39   sensors were somewhere in the middle [TS]

00:23:40   right [TS]

00:23:40   my main reservation about the thing [TS]

00:23:44   being in the middle is since I'm someone [TS]

00:23:48   who's had a case on all my iOS devices [TS]

00:23:50   putting something that you can't put a [TS]

00:23:54   case over on the back is somewhat of a [TS]

00:23:58   problem slash disappointment for me I'm [TS]

00:24:01   not one of those people that has ever [TS]

00:24:03   had a case that has like a circle cut [TS]

00:24:04   out so you can see the Apple logo I [TS]

00:24:06   found those cases absurd and just [TS]

00:24:08   comical and sad I don't need a cutout to [TS]

00:24:12   show the world my Apple logo and in fact [TS]

00:24:14   if again if you get an Apple case they [TS]

00:24:15   have their own Apple logo on the case as [TS]

00:24:17   a little indentation the people will [TS]

00:24:18   still know it's an iPhone it'll be fine [TS]

00:24:20   I swear but not just for those sort of [TS]

00:24:24   aesthetic in like image reasons I don't [TS]

00:24:27   like the cutout but [TS]

00:24:28   mainly I don't like the cut out because [TS]

00:24:30   the cut out that will inevitably have to [TS]

00:24:32   be there on any case for this fur for an [TS]

00:24:34   Apple iPhone with the touch ID sensor on [TS]

00:24:37   the back is that that basically becomes [TS]

00:24:39   a lint collecting belly button for your [TS]

00:24:42   phone like is another place for I'm [TS]

00:24:44   rhyming craft to get inside there you're [TS]

00:24:47   going to be sticking your grimy fingers [TS]

00:24:49   in there constantly to unlock your phone [TS]

00:24:50   and any grime it's on there just going [TS]

00:24:52   it wedged in this little scene it will [TS]

00:24:53   literally be a grimy linty belly button [TS]

00:24:56   for your phone that's not good it [TS]

00:24:58   doesn't look good it doesn't feel good [TS]

00:25:00   it makes this Honey sensor farther away [TS]

00:25:02   from you because now you got to dig your [TS]

00:25:03   finger into the little belly button to [TS]

00:25:04   find the touch ID sensor the thicker [TS]

00:25:06   case is the worse that's going to be [TS]

00:25:08   think of battery cases how the hell you [TS]

00:25:10   gonna get a battery case if it's going [TS]

00:25:11   to be a super duper any belly button we [TS]

00:25:13   got a poke your finger up there and be a [TS]

00:25:16   mess up if you don't use cases on your [TS]

00:25:19   phone whatever like it's then there's no [TS]

00:25:20   big deal right this is easier to all 9 [TS]

00:25:22   issues but I do use cases and I don't [TS]

00:25:24   want to stick my finger into a little [TS]

00:25:25   hole in the case and you know fiddle [TS]

00:25:27   around on a Linde belly button so that's [TS]

00:25:30   mostly making me either a hope this is [TS]

00:25:32   not true or be hope that by the time you [TS]

00:25:34   know because I episode I'm not going to [TS]

00:25:36   get this phone I'm going to wait another [TS]

00:25:37   year get the one after that hopefully by [TS]

00:25:39   the next phone they will have started [TS]

00:25:41   out whatever issues with touch ID in the [TS]

00:25:42   front and you know I don't want to worry [TS]

00:25:44   about this I think having it on the back [TS]

00:25:47   is worse enough than having it on the [TS]

00:25:50   front that if we were forced to to like [TS]

00:25:53   if there was no way to keep it on the [TS]

00:25:54   front while having the screen go edge to [TS]

00:25:56   edge like if there is no way to put it [TS]

00:25:58   under the screen I would rather just [TS]

00:26:00   still have the chin like you know make [TS]

00:26:02   the bezels smaller you don't need to [TS]

00:26:04   make the screen two to one you can keep [TS]

00:26:06   it being 16 by 9 and not do like the [TS]

00:26:08   Samsung like you know 18 by 9 or 2 to [TS]

00:26:10   one thing because no one really needs it [TS]

00:26:12   to be taller necessarily like I just [TS]

00:26:16   keep the keep the chin like I don't [TS]

00:26:18   think we need no one's really asking to [TS]

00:26:21   have that go away if the cost is going [TS]

00:26:24   to be losing touch ID to the back well [TS]

00:26:27   Johnny I like symmetry I mean I know [TS]

00:26:29   you've got a chin on the iMac and no far [TS]

00:26:30   head right but on the phone though I [TS]

00:26:32   feel like that silhouette is so iconic [TS]

00:26:33   you know the like even like apples [TS]

00:26:36   little outline graphics that they give [TS]

00:26:38   you for iPhone that you like you're not [TS]

00:26:39   allowed to use in your app or though [TS]

00:26:40   they won't let him in the App Store it's [TS]

00:26:41   basically [TS]

00:26:41   rounded rectangle with a little [TS]

00:26:43   rectangle exactly dead center in the [TS]

00:26:44   middle and that's basically you know [TS]

00:26:46   hieroglyphics for iPhone or for [TS]

00:26:48   smartphone at this point for Apple to [TS]

00:26:51   come out with an iPhone with [TS]

00:26:53   asymmetrical margins like a chin but [TS]

00:26:56   very little forehead because they try to [TS]

00:26:58   pull in the edges like you can pull on [TS]

00:26:59   the sides a little bit and shave a few [TS]

00:27:01   millimeters right-oh edge to edge screen [TS]

00:27:03   especially if they do like a rounded [TS]

00:27:04   cranny I just like so many the you know [TS]

00:27:07   past Android phones oh it's a lot like [TS]

00:27:09   it when you see them side by side in [TS]

00:27:11   people's review videos like the the [TS]

00:27:13   iPhone design the side bezels really [TS]

00:27:16   stick out compared to these newer like [TS]

00:27:19   you know bezel this ones like the s8 [TS]

00:27:20   like Deane yes but it's only a few [TS]

00:27:22   millimeters here it's not like you're [TS]

00:27:23   getting back like a full inch if you [TS]

00:27:25   took off the chin for it but that [TS]

00:27:26   matters like I'm saying like if you just [TS]

00:27:29   if you keep most of the chin you don't [TS]

00:27:31   even keep the whole chin and just keep [TS]

00:27:33   enough of it for a touch ID sensor to be [TS]

00:27:36   there's there's like two millimeters on [TS]

00:27:37   top and bottom of the touch ID says I go [TS]

00:27:39   look at your phone right now there's not [TS]

00:27:40   a lot of room above and below I'm [TS]

00:27:42   holding it right now you there is some [TS]

00:27:44   room about as much room as the side [TS]

00:27:45   bezels and also does it need to be that [TS]

00:27:48   big we don't know they can get a smaller [TS]

00:27:50   one I think it needs to be that big well [TS]

00:27:53   but regardless like I'm saying like you [TS]

00:27:54   know it this is all about trade-offs [TS]

00:27:57   right like that we this has been like a [TS]

00:27:58   theme of our show is like is Apple [TS]

00:27:59   making the right trade-offs in its [TS]

00:28:01   physical designs of things and and I [TS]

00:28:03   think the the trade-off here is like [TS]

00:28:05   touch ID on the back is not that great [TS]

00:28:08   and if if you keep it on the front [TS]

00:28:10   basically like it you know it solves a [TS]

00:28:12   lot of problems if you can't get it onto [TS]

00:28:14   the screen which I mean I don't know a [TS]

00:28:17   lot about screen technology but getting [TS]

00:28:19   it under the screen without having it be [TS]

00:28:20   like a visible different spot on the [TS]

00:28:23   screen when the screen showing an image [TS]

00:28:24   sounds impossible like that sounds [TS]

00:28:26   really really hard that's not impossible [TS]

00:28:28   I feel like it you know I feel like the [TS]

00:28:31   rumor wouldn't have been around so long [TS]

00:28:33   if it was literally impossible I think [TS]

00:28:34   and the tech is sort of kind there to [TS]

00:28:36   sort of kind of pull this off to some [TS]

00:28:39   degree but but like the ones they would [TS]

00:28:41   never be discussed but you think that [TS]

00:28:42   like that there's a way to put some what [TS]

00:28:44   to put some kind of like optical you [TS]

00:28:46   know readings or scanning sensor in a [TS]

00:28:49   screen that also is showing pixels such [TS]

00:28:52   that if you showed like a solid color [TS]

00:28:54   rectangle on the screen [TS]

00:28:55   mean that you wouldn't see the outline [TS]

00:28:57   of that touch ID is an optical is it I [TS]

00:29:00   don't know I don't know if I knew had [TS]

00:29:02   touch ID worked I could have a more [TS]

00:29:03   informed opinion about this but but I [TS]

00:29:05   don't but anyway like I would the rumors [TS]

00:29:09   been around so long and I haven't seen a [TS]

00:29:11   single story that say you dummy [TS]

00:29:13   that's impossible stop talking about [TS]

00:29:16   this which leads you to believe that it [TS]

00:29:17   is possible just a question of how much [TS]

00:29:19   worse is the sensor you know how how how [TS]

00:29:22   less clear an image or you know a sense [TS]

00:29:25   of your fingerprints does it get so I I [TS]

00:29:30   feel like it's it's it's possible if not [TS]

00:29:32   now then eventually but you know if not [TS]

00:29:34   this year then whatever but but getting [TS]

00:29:37   back to the idea of leaving the chin and [TS]

00:29:38   getting rid of the forehead like you [TS]

00:29:40   know you can pull in the margins all you [TS]

00:29:41   want bottom line is if the margin above [TS]

00:29:44   is not the width of the margin below [TS]

00:29:45   you've got an asymmetrical phone that's [TS]

00:29:47   weird to me now they did make the phat [TS]

00:29:48   nano so never say never write Apple [TS]

00:29:50   Apple has been known to make some pretty [TS]

00:29:52   awkward looking iOS that was an iOS size [TS]

00:29:55   awkward looking handheld the [TS]

00:29:56   battery-powered devices so who knows [TS]

00:29:59   what they'll do but I first I personally [TS]

00:30:02   think that would be an ugly iPhone it [TS]

00:30:04   would be the equivalent of the phat nano [TS]

00:30:05   even more so than the thing on the back [TS]

00:30:07   and so I'm I think it is more likely the [TS]

00:30:10   front oh be nice and symmetrical and the [TS]

00:30:13   touch ID sensor will be on the back they [TS]

00:30:14   really couldn't get it any other way or [TS]

00:30:16   like the final thing is it's got top and [TS]

00:30:18   bottom margins that are both equal that [TS]

00:30:20   both slightly smaller than they were [TS]

00:30:21   before they pull in the sides a little [TS]

00:30:23   bit and you know there's your phone [TS]

00:30:25   people would still like that it would be [TS]

00:30:26   a new form factor it's not like the [TS]

00:30:27   iPhone 7 form factor again it is a new [TS]

00:30:30   phone especially but as you know steel [TS]

00:30:32   you know that's steel shiny chrome edge [TS]

00:30:34   things sort of reminiscent of the first [TS]

00:30:36   iPhone and the stainless steel back and [TS]

00:30:38   you know all the other thing it would be [TS]

00:30:40   a new form factor people would accept it [TS]

00:30:41   as a new phone it just wouldn't be like [TS]

00:30:44   oh I thought this one was only gonna [TS]

00:30:45   have screen on the front but instead [TS]

00:30:46   it's still got a tuna for head but oh [TS]

00:30:48   well yeah I agree I I certainly would [TS]

00:30:52   not complain if touch ID was pretty much [TS]

00:30:54   exactly the way it was it's just the [TS]

00:30:56   only difference is that the bezels were [TS]

00:30:57   slightly smaller but we'll say I'm [TS]

00:31:01   pretty much nonplussed by this [TS]

00:31:03   regardless whatever ends up happening [TS]

00:31:05   happens and that's fine [TS]

00:31:06   now by the way I think this is a good [TS]

00:31:08   time to revisit while we're on the topic [TS]

00:31:11   of the buttons on our phones and [TS]

00:31:13   everything to take another pass at each [TS]

00:31:16   of us saying well how we feel about the [TS]

00:31:20   non-moving iPhone 7 home button after [TS]

00:31:23   using it for a year now or whatever it's [TS]

00:31:24   been mm-hmm because I had occasion to [TS]

00:31:27   use my wife's phone recently and she's [TS]

00:31:29   got a success and that button moves and [TS]

00:31:31   then I start off as like out of the [TS]

00:31:34   buttons it's weird you get used to it [TS]

00:31:35   it's not quite the same or whatever and [TS]

00:31:37   now I'm at the point where when I use a [TS]

00:31:38   is device with the button actually moves [TS]

00:31:41   it feels like junk and I can't handle it [TS]

00:31:43   and I am like a fully converted yep I'm [TS]

00:31:45   holy convert to the non-moving button [TS]

00:31:48   which does not feel like the old button [TS]

00:31:50   like it's not like oh it's now it has [TS]

00:31:51   fooled me it doesn't but all I'm saying [TS]

00:31:52   is the way it feels now is the way I [TS]

00:31:54   expect my phone to feel the little [TS]

00:31:56   wiggly shake even how it works when my [TS]

00:31:58   phone is sitting on a tabletop like all [TS]

00:32:00   those little haptic movements and [TS]

00:32:03   whatever my hands are just accepted that [TS]

00:32:05   that that's how your phone feels and [TS]

00:32:07   when I use phones that don't feel that [TS]

00:32:09   way and when a thing like presses in on [TS]

00:32:10   them it feels junky and crappy to me so [TS]

00:32:12   I am a total convert to this which makes [TS]

00:32:14   me gives me some hope that I will [TS]

00:32:16   eventually be a convert to and you know [TS]

00:32:19   an in screen completely smooth no border [TS]

00:32:22   thing I could be wrong it could be that [TS]

00:32:23   I need the little circle to feel with my [TS]

00:32:24   thumb right reminder where it is it [TS]

00:32:26   which is another question by the way [TS]

00:32:27   they put touch ID in the back is it a [TS]

00:32:28   little crater on the back or is it [TS]

00:32:30   totally featureless if it is a crater [TS]

00:32:32   that's kind of weird because you'd have [TS]

00:32:33   the Apple logo and it'll been a little [TS]

00:32:34   bit greater belly button blow it anyway [TS]

00:32:36   I I'm here to say that I feel like I [TS]

00:32:40   have unbeknownst to me completely [TS]

00:32:42   converted to not just tolerating the [TS]

00:32:45   non-moving home button but to saying I [TS]

00:32:47   like the non-moving home button better [TS]

00:32:49   than all the moving home buttons I've [TS]

00:32:51   ever used I could not possibly agree [TS]

00:32:53   with you more the only time I dislike [TS]

00:32:56   the non moving home button the static [TS]

00:32:58   home button is when I try to unlock my [TS]

00:33:00   phone when it's resting on a table [TS]

00:33:01   because whatever magic the haptic taptic [TS]

00:33:05   whatever feedback does in order to make [TS]

00:33:08   you feel like you've clicked a button [TS]

00:33:09   it's either completely muted to the [TS]

00:33:12   point of figuratively speaking silence [TS]

00:33:14   or just very very very soft and almost [TS]

00:33:18   muted [TS]

00:33:19   and that annoys me but in hand I have no [TS]

00:33:23   problem with it and I believe I'm on the [TS]

00:33:25   softest setting I'm going to have to [TS]

00:33:27   come back to it because I don't remember [TS]

00:33:29   offhand but I think I'm on the softest [TS]

00:33:30   uh feedback setting - yeah I mentioned [TS]

00:33:33   the table thing it may because I have a [TS]

00:33:35   case like it does feel different when [TS]

00:33:37   it's on the table but I have now come to [TS]

00:33:39   like that feeling also better than [TS]

00:33:41   pressing like the home button on my [TS]

00:33:43   wife's success that's also sitting on [TS]

00:33:44   the table [TS]

00:33:45   it is totally weird and is different [TS]

00:33:46   than when it's in your hand but I like [TS]

00:33:48   it better because it feel it's just what [TS]

00:33:50   I'm used to right and when I push it in [TS]

00:33:51   it moves in it feels like I'm breaking [TS]

00:33:53   the phone and opening up is weird gap [TS]

00:33:55   and like feels so clunky or whatever and [TS]

00:33:57   I I have been situation and maybe it is [TS]

00:34:01   the case that makes the difference that [TS]

00:34:02   like gives it that extra cushion or [TS]

00:34:04   margin for the haptics to do something [TS]

00:34:06   like where you press it in and like [TS]

00:34:08   imagine if you press it in the haptics [TS]

00:34:10   didn't go off at all right that would [TS]

00:34:12   feel broken on the 7 right and so [TS]

00:34:14   sometimes I feel like if you're if [TS]

00:34:16   you're on a very flat table a very hard [TS]

00:34:18   flat table with no case and you try to [TS]

00:34:20   do it maybe somehow the haptics have no [TS]

00:34:22   had nothing to move or vibrate and that [TS]

00:34:25   feels a little bit more broken that does [TS]

00:34:26   with the case so it could be the case is [TS]

00:34:28   helping me like my own button more but [TS]

00:34:30   either way I'm willing to you know I I [TS]

00:34:34   like it I like it better even in that [TS]

00:34:35   scenario [TS]

00:34:36   so do you are what setting are you on in [TS]

00:34:38   terms of that I'm just gonna go look [TS]

00:34:39   that up or is that it it's in general [TS]

00:34:42   home button everything in general that's [TS]

00:34:44   that's why it's aptly named it should [TS]

00:34:46   just be called settings you go to [TS]

00:34:47   settings and you go to settings no I'm [TS]

00:34:50   with you guys I totally agree I the very [TS]

00:34:53   first probably three or four days I [TS]

00:34:55   hated it I thought this is a huge step [TS]

00:34:58   backwards I said as much here and [TS]

00:35:00   somehow between now and then I've turned [TS]

00:35:03   into not only liking it but like John [TS]

00:35:05   liking it more than the old buttons and [TS]

00:35:08   the old buttons now feel weird to me [TS]

00:35:10   that has not happened with force touch [TS]

00:35:12   trackpad or the new keyboards on the Mac [TS]

00:35:15   books but that has definitely happened [TS]

00:35:16   with the force touch home button on the [TS]

00:35:19   phones and I also would go a little bit [TS]

00:35:21   further and say one of the great things [TS]

00:35:24   about the iPhone 7 is that new taptic [TS]

00:35:27   engine second generation that that has [TS]

00:35:29   enabled because it's like I much more [TS]

00:35:31   precise Tabak engine that can do a lot [TS]

00:35:33   more stuff [TS]

00:35:33   has like a whole sequencer for for the [TS]

00:35:35   things it does and so that that has [TS]

00:35:39   enabled all the little tiny haptic [TS]

00:35:41   feedback things throughout the interface [TS]

00:35:43   and and now that I am accustomed to that [TS]

00:35:46   in so many system standard apps that use [TS]

00:35:49   standard controls and Saturn haptics and [TS]

00:35:51   everything when I go back when I use [TS]

00:35:54   like an iPad that doesn't have the [TS]

00:35:55   taptic engine and nothing gives me those [TS]

00:35:58   little taps with everything it feels [TS]

00:35:59   like something's broken it feels like [TS]

00:36:01   what's wrong what is this some kind of [TS]

00:36:03   primitive piece of glass like it makes a [TS]

00:36:05   huge difference [TS]

00:36:06   so I also am a very big fan of haptics [TS]

00:36:09   and especially the you know the new [TS]

00:36:11   Tabak engine and I look forward to you [TS]

00:36:13   know seeing them added to more apps [TS]

00:36:15   including probably my own once I get [TS]

00:36:17   around to it [TS]

00:36:17   speaking of haptic feedback and things [TS]

00:36:19   that feel broken Marcos my brief [TS]

00:36:21   complain about overcast things I have [TS]

00:36:23   really long lists really long playlists [TS]

00:36:25   and when I try to drag something from [TS]

00:36:26   way way down at the bottom to way way up [TS]

00:36:28   at the top the maximum scroll speed has [TS]

00:36:30   a little haptics fire off is way too [TS]

00:36:31   slow and I just said there holding it [TS]

00:36:33   and going dump dump them and then of [TS]

00:36:37   course overcast refreshes the list and [TS]

00:36:38   it Yanks the thing that I was holding in [TS]

00:36:40   my hand out of my hand and drops it into [TS]

00:36:42   the list wherever it was and I regrab it [TS]

00:36:44   and go thump thump thump thump anyway [TS]

00:36:46   max speed should be higher all right [TS]

00:36:47   this the second thing is my fault the [TS]

00:36:49   first thing is the firt like this is [TS]

00:36:51   just the standard behavior of UI [TS]

00:36:53   tableview and I know but I believe in [TS]

00:36:55   you I believe you can you can change the [TS]

00:36:57   default behavior and make it make it go [TS]

00:36:59   faster given what you've done and if I [TS]

00:37:01   have to do anything else to you a [TS]

00:37:02   tableview [TS]

00:37:03   I'm just going to you a collection view [TS]

00:37:05   they like it which some people [TS]

00:37:06   speculated maybe collection views will [TS]

00:37:08   replace table yes I saw that that [TS]

00:37:10   article the table view is for suckers is [TS]

00:37:11   all collection view now well there's a [TS]

00:37:13   bunch of things that that table view [TS]

00:37:15   still do the collection views don't or [TS]

00:37:17   that you'd have to write yourself but I [TS]

00:37:19   think I've probably crossed the [TS]

00:37:21   threshold after which like I've done so [TS]

00:37:24   much work to hack table views that maybe [TS]

00:37:26   doing it in a collection view would have [TS]

00:37:27   been less work after all [TS]

00:37:29   so probably next time I redesign this [TS]

00:37:31   interface whatever happens I'm not [TS]

00:37:33   looking forward to that but if that ever [TS]

00:37:34   happens I will probably do collect [TS]

00:37:36   communicate over a higher max crawl [TS]

00:37:37   speed can ratchet up it could be like [TS]

00:37:39   slow in the beginning and you're holding [TS]

00:37:40   and then it goes faster in fact you know [TS]

00:37:42   like the same way the flick scrolling [TS]

00:37:43   kind of does [TS]

00:37:44   where you can you can get it up to speed [TS]

00:37:46   because really long list like there's [TS]

00:37:48   just no recourse is just and well there [TS]

00:37:50   there is a shortcut if you if you start [TS]

00:37:53   playing out of near the top and on the [TS]

00:37:56   items the other bottom that you're [TS]

00:37:57   trying to move all the way up play next [TS]

00:37:58   play next play next play next that'll [TS]

00:38:00   move them all immediately yeah I think [TS]

00:38:03   that was just an aside it's a funny you [TS]

00:38:05   bring up the the taptic haptic whatever [TS]

00:38:07   feedback because as an aside the other [TS]

00:38:11   day I had a few minutes to kill at work [TS]

00:38:12   and the app that I work on we have a [TS]

00:38:17   scenario where there's like a bunch of [TS]

00:38:19   cards across the bottom of the screen [TS]

00:38:21   and you can you can slide the cards left [TS]

00:38:23   and right and you know some will come [TS]

00:38:25   from off-screen onto screen and then go [TS]

00:38:27   back off screen again and this is like [TS]

00:38:28   the perfect moment to use that feedback [TS]

00:38:32   and that that tap tap tap is you're [TS]

00:38:35   scrolling through the cards and they're [TS]

00:38:36   coming on and off screen and I tried to [TS]

00:38:39   get get it to work just right and I [TS]

00:38:41   couldn't get the math right such that [TS]

00:38:43   when like the card was at the midway [TS]

00:38:45   point off screen it would fire at the [TS]

00:38:46   exact right moment it was very wonky was [TS]

00:38:48   probably my fault but I hope to at some [TS]

00:38:51   point go back to finish that up because [TS]

00:38:54   it it really does work phenomenally well [TS]

00:38:56   when you get it right but getting it [TS]

00:38:57   right is kind of tough so yeah I am full [TS]

00:39:00   support of third-party app developers [TS]

00:39:03   putting that everywhere they can in [TS]

00:39:05   their apps because it's super cool the [TS]

00:39:07   only bad thing about haptics right now [TS]

00:39:09   is that we really don't have a lot of [TS]

00:39:11   control over them like the the options [TS]

00:39:14   that we have are really coarse and from [TS]

00:39:16   what I understand the way it's [TS]

00:39:17   implemented is basically a sound [TS]

00:39:19   synthesizer you know treating treating [TS]

00:39:21   the tapping engine like a big [TS]

00:39:22   low-frequency speaker and so apps in [TS]

00:39:25   theory could have much more creativity [TS]

00:39:28   and options over the the feeling and [TS]

00:39:32   even possibly direction if that's a [TS]

00:39:33   thing you know like side by side [TS]

00:39:35   directions of the haptics though that's [TS]

00:39:38   not yet exposed in the API but maybe an [TS]

00:39:41   iOS 11 or the future maybe they will [TS]

00:39:42   because I would love to do like some [TS]

00:39:45   custom stuff there that just isn't [TS]

00:39:47   possible right now yeah completely agree [TS]

00:39:49   with you all right anything else on [TS]

00:39:51   these iPhone 8 rumors I think at this [TS]

00:39:54   point there's there's so many crazy [TS]

00:39:55   rumors we know so little it [TS]

00:39:58   hard to comment intelligently on much of [TS]

00:40:00   it well has that ever stopped us before [TS]

00:40:02   and by the way the nine-to-five Mac [TS]

00:40:04   article there were going a link that has [TS]

00:40:07   like the parts like thing the parts link [TS]

00:40:08   was like a drawing which is you know is [TS]

00:40:10   the best park lease like measurements on [TS]

00:40:12   them and stuff like it's good I actually [TS]

00:40:13   took a screenshot of that thing because [TS]

00:40:14   those are so easy to verify like they're [TS]

00:40:16   down to the you know thousandth of a [TS]

00:40:18   millimeter we can verify those when the [TS]

00:40:20   real fun comes out if it's exactly the [TS]

00:40:21   dimensions after the thousands the [TS]

00:40:22   milliliter that was probably jet leak if [TS]

00:40:24   they're not then that was just totally [TS]

00:40:25   made-up stuff but anyway the 95 Mac [TS]

00:40:28   article has a picture of like oh here's [TS]

00:40:29   a part looks just like that submit [TS]

00:40:31   schematic it's just a rendering of the [TS]

00:40:32   schematic like the schematic is this [TS]

00:40:34   supposed to leak not this thing that [TS]

00:40:35   looks like metal and the thing so don't [TS]

00:40:38   be fooled by thinking someone found a [TS]

00:40:39   metal thing and took a fuzzy picture of [TS]

00:40:41   it is just a rendering also real-time [TS]

00:40:43   follow-up the touch ID hardware as it [TS]

00:40:46   exists today is capacitive which I did [TS]

00:40:48   not realize I thought it was optical [TS]

00:40:50   yeah so I think it's just like a really [TS]

00:40:52   really high density capacitively I like [TS]

00:40:55   like higher higher precision than the [TS]

00:40:57   than the touch sensor on the whole [TS]

00:41:00   multi-touch screen I assume right yeah I [TS]

00:41:03   mean like a tall thing of like the [TS]

00:41:05   capacitive stuff the capacitive layering [TS]

00:41:07   this to two aspects one is the layering [TS]

00:41:08   thing where you can make screens out of [TS]

00:41:11   a series of layers and one layer is the [TS]

00:41:13   part that does the capacitive sensing a [TS]

00:41:15   layer is the part that has the you know [TS]

00:41:17   the the color elements and the light up [TS]

00:41:19   bits and you know especially if it's an [TS]

00:41:21   OLED screen isn't this the the new [TS]

00:41:22   iPhone supposed to be all OLED and [TS]

00:41:23   everything so yeah usually you reduce [TS]

00:41:26   number of layers because you don't have [TS]

00:41:27   a light emitting layer and a filter [TS]

00:41:28   layer you know pixels themselves emit [TS]

00:41:30   light but either way you have to have a [TS]

00:41:33   bunch of things that emit light and then [TS]

00:41:35   in between the light emitting things you [TS]

00:41:37   need the sensing things and the light [TS]

00:41:39   emitting things don't have to fill the [TS]

00:41:40   whole area because there's you know [TS]

00:41:41   light bloom and everything so the actual [TS]

00:41:42   light-emitting areas can actually be [TS]

00:41:44   very small and have mostly empty space [TS]

00:41:45   between it's just a question of trying [TS]

00:41:46   to like either weave that together or [TS]

00:41:48   layer it over each other such that you [TS]

00:41:51   know the the the capacitive thing is has [TS]

00:41:54   this fine mesh that's put over the light [TS]

00:41:56   of things but you don't notice the mesh [TS]

00:41:57   because it's super fine or you put it [TS]

00:41:58   below the light up things like again I'm [TS]

00:42:00   so I'm just making up random words for [TS]

00:42:02   tech you're by language seems to me that [TS]

00:42:04   it should be possible to make a layer [TS]

00:42:07   cake that works in some way the only [TS]

00:42:10   question is how much worse does it work [TS]

00:42:12   the existing touch ID which is which [TS]

00:42:14   still has like whatever this is a layer [TS]

00:42:16   of sapphire or glass over the capacitive [TS]

00:42:18   sensor right so it's still there's still [TS]

00:42:20   some distance just no light being [TS]

00:42:21   emitted from it and especially if they [TS]

00:42:23   just darken that area of the screen when [TS]

00:42:25   you hold your finger on it let's expect [TS]

00:42:26   in touch ID or whatever like there are [TS]

00:42:28   ways around a lot of the limitations [TS]

00:42:30   that make me think it is feasible if not [TS]

00:42:33   this year then surely in a few years we [TS]

00:42:37   are sponsored this week by Eero go to [TS]

00:42:39   ero comets EE ro comm to learn more now [TS]

00:42:43   look we know how Wi-Fi usually works you [TS]

00:42:46   buy a router with a whole bunch of giant [TS]

00:42:48   antennas on it thinking you will finally [TS]

00:42:50   cover your entire house and you'll [TS]

00:42:52   finally have coverage in those two or [TS]

00:42:54   three back rooms where you never had [TS]

00:42:56   coverage before and in practice you get [TS]

00:42:58   that big router home and every time it [TS]

00:43:00   says it's going to have the best range [TS]

00:43:01   and it doesn't cover those rooms it [TS]

00:43:03   Wi-Fi has been broken for so long [TS]

00:43:05   because we rely on single routers Eero [TS]

00:43:08   has come out to change that Iiro is a [TS]

00:43:10   system where you plug in one of these [TS]

00:43:12   routers as your main one but then you [TS]

00:43:14   buy more than one you can buy a two pack [TS]

00:43:16   a three pack whatever amount you need [TS]

00:43:17   they cover about a thousand square feet [TS]

00:43:19   each so the typical American home you [TS]

00:43:21   might have two or three of them and the [TS]

00:43:23   app that comes with helps you set them [TS]

00:43:25   up in a really effective way and it just [TS]

00:43:27   blankets the entire house in fast [TS]

00:43:30   reliable Wi-Fi way better than a single [TS]

00:43:34   router ever could and again as I [TS]

00:43:36   mentioned the app is super easy to use [TS]

00:43:37   tons of great features and they're [TS]

00:43:39   updating it all the time and the [TS]

00:43:40   performance you get is way better than [TS]

00:43:42   you get out of a traditional like [TS]

00:43:44   repeater or range extender setup because [TS]

00:43:47   they actually create a backhaul mesh [TS]

00:43:49   network separately from the main network [TS]

00:43:50   to communicate with each other and to [TS]

00:43:52   form that that huge mesh of Wi-Fi [TS]

00:43:55   coverage in your home I highly suggest [TS]

00:43:57   you check out Eero and don't just take [TS]

00:43:58   my word for it do your own research read [TS]

00:44:01   reviews and you will see for yourself [TS]

00:44:03   this is a solid product with an [TS]

00:44:06   incredible reputation that they built up [TS]

00:44:07   so far it's been covered in the press it [TS]

00:44:09   has amazing reviews on Amazon and stuff [TS]

00:44:11   so check it out and they've recently [TS]

00:44:12   lowered their prices so you can see for [TS]

00:44:15   yourself the prices are the same [TS]

00:44:16   everywhere now a three pack is now $100 [TS]

00:44:18   less a three pack is now just 399 a 2 [TS]

00:44:21   pack is 299 and you can get these same [TS]

00:44:24   prices everywhere there's no special [TS]

00:44:25   promo code just get an arrow wherever [TS]

00:44:27   you want to from their site eurocom or [TS]

00:44:30   just go to Best Buy or Amazon and buy [TS]

00:44:32   one there they know that that's your [TS]

00:44:33   going to do anyway so check it out today [TS]

00:44:35   go to eurocom that's a ero comm to learn [TS]

00:44:39   more highly recommended thank you very [TS]

00:44:41   much to ear over sponsoring our show so [TS]

00:44:46   there's been a lot of motion in this um [TS]

00:44:49   this thing called overcast I don't know [TS]

00:44:53   if any of you are familiar with but with [TS]

00:44:55   this but apparently the developer of [TS]

00:44:57   overcast has been very busy and getting [TS]

00:45:00   work done and has tweeted the overcast [TS]

00:45:04   account has tweeted found a fix for m4a [TS]

00:45:06   chapters will return in the next version [TS]

00:45:07   and P 3 chapters continue to work great [TS]

00:45:09   they'll be easier to create soon so [TS]

00:45:11   there's a fair bit to unpack here but [TS]

00:45:15   let's start with m4a what you do Marco [TS]

00:45:17   so last episode I described the problem [TS]

00:45:19   that I was facing where basically the [TS]

00:45:21   Apple low-level parser would only [TS]

00:45:24   recognize chapters in mp3 and m4a files [TS]

00:45:28   if they were named with dot mp3 and dot [TS]

00:45:31   m4a extensions and went overcast down as [TS]

00:45:34   a file it doesn't know the the type yet [TS]

00:45:37   until tariffs downloading it in which [TS]

00:45:38   point I already haven't saving it to a [TS]

00:45:40   file and rather not move it for [TS]

00:45:41   streaming reasons in any way and so the [TS]

00:45:44   hack I was doing before was that upon [TS]

00:45:47   playback I would temporarily create two [TS]

00:45:49   SIM links to the unex tensioned file one [TS]

00:45:52   of them without mp3 one of them without [TS]

00:45:54   I'm for a have Apple read those for the [TS]

00:45:56   metadata parser and then take my data [TS]

00:45:58   from there I had mentioned that that was [TS]

00:46:01   no longer working with stability on AP [TS]

00:46:05   FS and int n3 sometimes I would get [TS]

00:46:08   crashes around those sibling creations [TS]

00:46:10   or deletions and so to avoid these [TS]

00:46:12   crashes I switched to my own metadata [TS]

00:46:16   parser which only supported mp3 and said [TS]

00:46:19   I'll figure out some other solution for [TS]

00:46:20   m48 later I have to fix these crashes [TS]

00:46:22   now and the solution I came to was just [TS]

00:46:25   named all the files m4a and and because [TS]

00:46:30   I have my own parser now for mp3 [TS]

00:46:33   chapters so and my parser is as smart as [TS]

00:46:37   I want it to be and I decided to build [TS]

00:46:38   in the smart [TS]

00:46:39   say who cares what the file is named [TS]

00:46:41   just parse and look at these first bytes [TS]

00:46:43   and you can tell what format it is [TS]

00:46:45   anyway so so my parser is now [TS]

00:46:49   responsible for mp3 streaming and I use [TS]

00:46:52   apples again for M for A's on the files [TS]

00:46:55   all of which are now named M for a [TS]

00:46:58   that's both extremely clever in [TS]

00:47:01   completely bananas all at the same time [TS]

00:47:02   the perfect incarnation of file name [TS]

00:47:04   extensions highlighting the fact that [TS]

00:47:06   the name of the file has no bearing [TS]

00:47:08   whatsoever on the format of the data it [TS]

00:47:09   contains and it's an absurd system and [TS]

00:47:11   Marco is like it's like a satire of [TS]

00:47:14   filename extensions that you know I'm [TS]

00:47:16   just naming every file allotted for Ike [TS]

00:47:17   is that crap his meal is accepted this [TS]

00:47:19   stupid API that's too stupid to know [TS]

00:47:20   what the hell kind of flat file it's [TS]

00:47:22   being fed and doesn't let me specify [TS]

00:47:23   just figure it out by parsing the file [TS]

00:47:25   name especially like almost all formats [TS]

00:47:28   almost all modern file formats even [TS]

00:47:31   stuff as old as mp3 you can usually tell [TS]

00:47:33   what format it is by looking at maybe [TS]

00:47:36   the first 12 bytes of the file at most [TS]

00:47:39   you know sometimes you could tell it [TS]

00:47:40   even less so the file command does write [TS]

00:47:42   like it's really easy to detect it like [TS]

00:47:45   an m4 a always looks the same and it's [TS]

00:47:47   super easy to see it the and mp3s can [TS]

00:47:51   look two different ways upfront but [TS]

00:47:53   they're both pretty easy to parse and [TS]

00:47:55   detect like I wrote code to do it and [TS]

00:47:57   I'm not a you know super crazy file [TS]

00:48:01   engineer like I just looked up the specs [TS]

00:48:03   for these formats oh oh well this format [TS]

00:48:04   has these bytes up front this one is [TS]

00:48:05   these done like it isn't hard and you [TS]

00:48:08   know JPEG and paying those can also [TS]

00:48:10   those are like you know eight bytes the [TS]

00:48:11   beginning to it's super easy sometimes [TS]

00:48:13   they begin with the letters jpg or gif [TS]

00:48:16   like literal ASCII text jfif but anyway [TS]

00:48:19   yeah yeah yeah Japheth yeah joint [TS]

00:48:23   something international photo [TS]

00:48:26   it's interchange format it doesn't [TS]

00:48:29   really matter alright so it also in this [TS]

00:48:31   tweet you you had said mp3 chapters will [TS]

00:48:36   be easier to create soon tell me more [TS]

00:48:39   ask again later mmm look you all know [TS]

00:48:44   I'm making forecasts the only question [TS]

00:48:45   is when it comes out so once it coming [TS]

00:48:47   out I don't know probably soon oh yeah [TS]

00:48:50   I'm trying I'm putting out some overcast [TS]

00:48:52   fires first but [TS]

00:48:53   yeah probably soon it's been a long time [TS]

00:48:55   coming I think it's been more than a [TS]

00:48:56   year since this since more than a year [TS]

00:48:59   since you were willing to talk about [TS]

00:49:00   this program on the podcast in public [TS]

00:49:02   and who knows how long before that is [TS]

00:49:04   this has been a heck of a gestation for [TS]

00:49:06   this program this program that people [TS]

00:49:08   have already been using to to do it for [TS]

00:49:11   its intended purpose for a long time I [TS]

00:49:12   you just haven't gotten around to the [TS]

00:49:14   point where you polish it up for release [TS]

00:49:15   right there are a few little things I [TS]

00:49:18   want to work out but they're like minor [TS]

00:49:19   UI issues for the most part it should be [TS]

00:49:22   you know coming soon and for those who [TS]

00:49:26   don't know forecast is a thing that's [TS]

00:49:28   been charitably in private alpha that [TS]

00:49:32   marco wrote in order to break a podcast [TS]

00:49:35   into chapters and do so easily and [TS]

00:49:37   quickly and people in the chat are [TS]

00:49:39   asking about pricing the the honest [TS]

00:49:41   answer is that I still haven't quite [TS]

00:49:44   decided for sure but I'm leaning towards [TS]

00:49:47   just making it free but not open source [TS]

00:49:49   and and there's lots of reasons for this [TS]

00:49:52   maybe maybe I'll talk about it once I [TS]

00:49:54   release it if I go this way but the gist [TS]

00:49:56   of it is basically I don't think the [TS]

00:49:58   market is going to be big enough to make [TS]

00:50:01   it worth charging money for because when [TS]

00:50:03   you charge money for things you have to [TS]

00:50:04   support it in a very different way and [TS]

00:50:07   and there's there there's overhead to [TS]

00:50:09   that and I just don't think it would be [TS]

00:50:11   worth it because I think the market for [TS]

00:50:12   is going to be pretty small so I I don't [TS]

00:50:15   think it's worth charging and at the [TS]

00:50:18   same time open-source is tricky when [TS]

00:50:21   you're talking about entire apps like [TS]

00:50:22   libraries and components sure that's [TS]

00:50:24   easy when you're talking about entire [TS]

00:50:26   apps though you have a lot of problems [TS]

00:50:28   with like people ripping it off and [TS]

00:50:31   uploading it to the App Store under [TS]

00:50:33   their own name and like it's it's a big [TS]

00:50:35   problem for open when you open sort and [TS]

00:50:37   tire app doing stuff like that [TS]

00:50:38   so I don't really want to deal with that [TS]

00:50:40   and I think the value of open source is [TS]

00:50:44   much higher at the library level than at [TS]

00:50:47   the entire app level that's fair all [TS]

00:50:50   right so you've also been busy with your [TS]

00:50:52   Apple watch and we kind of made mention [TS]

00:50:54   of this earlier but it turns out your [TS]

00:50:56   Apple watch does have a purpose after [TS]

00:50:58   all yes for testing my Apple watch no [TS]

00:51:01   it's divided it's yeah I did a big watch [TS]

00:51:04   update we we'd kind of alluded to this [TS]

00:51:07   ago and the truth is I've been working [TS]

00:51:09   on offline watch playback for months now [TS]

00:51:13   it has taken a very long time and [TS]

00:51:15   there's lots of reasons for that and it [TS]

00:51:18   wasn't the only thing I was doing that [TS]

00:51:19   during that time you know I did all of [TS]

00:51:20   3.0 it was originally slated to be a [TS]

00:51:23   headlining feature of 3.0 there are lots [TS]

00:51:27   of reasons why that didn't happen the [TS]

00:51:30   main reason is that the state that I had [TS]

00:51:32   it in at the time 3.0 was going to ship [TS]

00:51:34   it just had too many weird limitations [TS]

00:51:38   and bugs and I decided it was not a good [TS]

00:51:41   idea to have to make a big deal out of [TS]

00:51:43   this feature to have it be a headlining [TS]

00:51:45   feature of this major update of my app [TS]

00:51:47   and to have it not work very well that [TS]

00:51:50   that didn't seem wise to me so instead I [TS]

00:51:53   push it off to later figuring you know [TS]

00:51:57   maybe something will change in watch OS [TS]

00:51:59   in the next versions and I can you know [TS]

00:52:01   do it do it then and there were there [TS]

00:52:04   were some other factors involved that [TS]

00:52:06   that influenced this as well but suffice [TS]

00:52:08   to say it took a very long time to do [TS]

00:52:10   because the way I did it in order to get [TS]

00:52:13   podcast playback on the Apple watch [TS]

00:52:14   there's a bunch of major hoops you have [TS]

00:52:16   to jump through one of them is just the [TS]

00:52:20   data transfer like the the watch has [TS]

00:52:22   very limited resources in all kinds that [TS]

00:52:25   includes bandwidth that includes storage [TS]

00:52:27   and processing power and and the API for [TS]

00:52:30   it is very limited so there's certain [TS]

00:52:32   things that you can't reliably do one of [TS]

00:52:35   the things is that you can't reliably [TS]

00:52:37   just feed at any arbitrary podcast file [TS]

00:52:40   off the internet and expect it to work [TS]

00:52:41   so there are limitations in its API [TS]

00:52:44   certain things that it doesn't play or [TS]

00:52:46   doesn't play very well or certain [TS]

00:52:49   formats and bit rates to use way too [TS]

00:52:51   much power and it actually becomes like [TS]

00:52:53   a noticeable load on the watch that you [TS]

00:52:55   want to avoid there's also issues like [TS]

00:52:57   if you're transferring it from the phone [TS]

00:52:59   then you have a serious problem of [TS]

00:53:02   bandwidth and a transfer speeds you know [TS]

00:53:05   just it take it could take out an hour [TS]

00:53:07   to transfer a podcast file to the watch [TS]

00:53:09   and oh seriously if you don't compress [TS]

00:53:12   it yeah it could take a long time and [TS]

00:53:14   because that you know a lot of times [TS]

00:53:16   it's transferring over bluetooth [TS]

00:53:17   sometimes it'll use Wi-Fi if it can but [TS]

00:53:19   it's [TS]

00:53:19   Vegas to when and whether it will do [TS]

00:53:22   that so you can't really count on that [TS]

00:53:24   so basically it's a huge challenge to [TS]

00:53:27   get the files to the watch and then once [TS]

00:53:30   they're on the watch they were there are [TS]

00:53:33   massive challenges around there's only a [TS]

00:53:35   few different ways to play audio on the [TS]

00:53:37   watch watch OS 3.2 added a couple of big [TS]

00:53:42   things before that which is most of my [TS]

00:53:44   development the API is that were there [TS]

00:53:47   there were like three different ways to [TS]

00:53:48   play audio files and all of them had [TS]

00:53:50   like fatal massive problems for playing [TS]

00:53:53   podcasts one of them you couldn't set [TS]

00:53:55   the start time of the file so if you [TS]

00:53:58   started it and then then you close it [TS]

00:53:59   and you want to start it again you'd [TS]

00:54:00   have to start from the beginning or [TS]

00:54:02   somehow have the watch like splice to [TS]

00:54:04   file one of my prototypes I actually had [TS]

00:54:06   the watch splicing AAC files every 15 [TS]

00:54:10   seconds so that you would so that it [TS]

00:54:13   would be able to like look and play this [TS]

00:54:15   huge post it was I tried a lot of things [TS]

00:54:19   and it it was it was a large period of [TS]

00:54:25   trial and error let's let's say that one [TS]

00:54:29   of the api's that you probably seen [TS]

00:54:30   before it you could present a sheet that [TS]

00:54:33   that has the file but it only has the [TS]

00:54:36   seek back and forward by five seconds at [TS]

00:54:38   a time and there's no way to change that [TS]

00:54:40   UI so that is pretty bad also that it [TS]

00:54:43   does allow a start a start time which is [TS]

00:54:45   fine but if you sort of work out our [TS]

00:54:47   background it then it stops playing [TS]

00:54:49   suspect and then there was a different [TS]

00:54:51   one the the WK audio file player api [TS]

00:54:54   because what which is what the current [TS]

00:54:56   store version as we speak [TS]

00:54:57   uses and that has tons of problems and [TS]

00:55:01   shortcomings and it's bizarre things and [TS]

00:55:04   by the way i have i have filed bugs i [TS]

00:55:06   have i have been in contact with apple [TS]

00:55:08   about all these different shortcomings [TS]

00:55:09   so i've done my duty there but you know [TS]

00:55:13   i think there i don't think they have a [TS]

00:55:14   lot of resources to devote to audio [TS]

00:55:16   playback on the watch honestly it seems [TS]

00:55:18   like this is a pretty pretty you know [TS]

00:55:20   rarely used thing and their resources [TS]

00:55:22   are probably elsewhere like iOS 11 you [TS]

00:55:24   know so anyway the the one of the issues [TS]

00:55:29   with the with the WK audio file API is [TS]

00:55:31   like [TS]

00:55:33   things like if your app is in the [TS]

00:55:36   background and you you initiate a player [TS]

00:55:39   that player will just never play if if [TS]

00:55:42   you go to note it has some integration [TS]

00:55:45   with the now playing glance so if you go [TS]

00:55:47   to the now playing glance and hit next [TS]

00:55:49   track whatever was playing will never [TS]

00:55:52   play again but there's no but it's held [TS]

00:55:54   in the API so you go back to the app and [TS]

00:55:56   the API says I'm still playing yes I'm [TS]

00:55:59   playing it 1x but then you just notice [TS]

00:56:02   if you pull the time you know actually [TS]

00:56:04   you say you're playing and you say [TS]

00:56:05   you're playing on 1x but the time stamp [TS]

00:56:07   is not going up so in the version of the [TS]

00:56:10   store right now I have things like [TS]

00:56:13   timers that pull every so often and [TS]

00:56:15   check to see is the timestamp going up [TS]

00:56:19   as it should if not tear down and [TS]

00:56:22   recreate the entire player there are so [TS]

00:56:24   many limitations and weird bugs with the [TS]

00:56:29   current one what happened in 3.2 well [TS]

00:56:34   first of all 3.2 made it possible at all [TS]

00:56:35   to use this API because they added a set [TS]

00:56:37   timestamp method on that so that you [TS]

00:56:40   could start a file from the middle and [TS]

00:56:42   then they also very quietly with no [TS]

00:56:45   comment except from the release notes [TS]

00:56:46   they just they added the ability to use [TS]

00:56:49   a V audio player like oh yeah it's like [TS]

00:56:53   well then why bother with all this crap [TS]

00:56:54   yes let me use that net and I should [TS]

00:56:58   point to as far as I know I don't think [TS]

00:57:00   I can actually move my entire core audio [TS]

00:57:03   stack onto the watch yet some of core [TS]

00:57:06   audio is there I don't know if enough of [TS]

00:57:09   it is there or if I may be missing [TS]

00:57:11   things like audio tool blocks and some [TS]

00:57:12   of the little accessory things so I'm [TS]

00:57:14   not I don't think I can actually move [TS]

00:57:15   the entire thing over yet but av audio [TS]

00:57:19   players is good enough to do everything [TS]

00:57:21   except smart speed and voice boost and [TS]

00:57:23   it has everything else it has a pretty [TS]

00:57:25   good speed engine it had you know it has [TS]

00:57:27   all it is an in process API the only [TS]

00:57:30   reason I wasn't using it before in the [TS]

00:57:32   version it's in the store right now is [TS]

00:57:34   that there it wasn't back rounding for [TS]

00:57:38   me reliably enough at least like it [TS]

00:57:40   would background sometimes when other [TS]

00:57:41   times I realized yesterday you had to [TS]

00:57:45   set different background audio flags [TS]

00:57:47   in different places for that one than [TS]

00:57:49   you did for the original WK audio player [TS]

00:57:52   once I set those it works perfectly well [TS]

00:57:56   nice with some with a few bugs along the [TS]

00:57:59   way but it's suffice to say those are [TS]

00:58:00   all fixed now as of about two hours ago [TS]

00:58:02   it works perfectly the version that is [TS]

00:58:05   currently awaiting Apple's approval is [TS]

00:58:07   this new version with a B audio player [TS]

00:58:09   it's going to be awesome [TS]

00:58:10   I should point out a few other things [TS]

00:58:11   that I hit along the way one of the [TS]

00:58:15   things I did early on that took some [TS]

00:58:17   time but was worth it as I mentioned [TS]

00:58:18   none of these methods on the watch [TS]

00:58:20   support smart speed or voice boost and [TS]

00:58:22   if you're accustomed to listening to [TS]

00:58:25   over catch with smart speed listening to [TS]

00:58:27   anything else seems kind of broken it [TS]

00:58:30   just sounds wrong and and you can do [TS]

00:58:32   basic speed ups on the watch but I don't [TS]

00:58:35   have the low level access to the audio [TS]

00:58:37   stream to be able to do smart speed and [TS]

00:58:39   so what I did instead was on the phone I [TS]

00:58:42   experimented and found something fast [TS]

00:58:44   enough eventually I'm actually [TS]

00:58:46   transcoding the files on the phone if [TS]

00:58:48   you have smart speed enabled it bakes in [TS]

00:58:51   smart speed that's kind of bananas you [TS]

00:58:53   know whatever settings that you would [TS]

00:58:55   play that play the track on your phone [TS]

00:58:57   if you have it say you know play at [TS]

00:58:59   Smart speed at 1.25 X then it will play [TS]

00:59:02   on the watch at one point two five X and [TS]

00:59:04   I don't have smart speed baked in I'm [TS]

00:59:06   not able to do voice boost yet and this [TS]

00:59:08   is due to some low level implementation [TS]

00:59:09   details basically if I run this through [TS]

00:59:12   an audio graph it is ten times slower [TS]

00:59:15   and it transcodes at about 12x real time [TS]

00:59:19   if I don't run it through audio graph [TS]

00:59:20   and just process the samples raw it runs [TS]

00:59:23   at about 110 112 X on an iPhone 7 so I [TS]

00:59:26   can transcode you know a hundred times [TS]

00:59:28   faster than real time by not using the [TS]

00:59:31   graph so doing it doing it through the [TS]

00:59:34   graph is just too slow to really ship [TS]

00:59:35   that and so there's no voice Boost yet I [TS]

00:59:39   have not yet written my own voice boost [TS]

00:59:41   that doesn't use a combination of audio [TS]

00:59:43   units I plan to but I haven't yet that's [TS]

00:59:46   a low-level thing that will be a fun [TS]

00:59:47   project someday but it's it hasn't [TS]

00:59:50   happened yet so that's why there's no [TS]

00:59:51   voice boost but there is smart speed [TS]

00:59:53   because smart speed is a combination of [TS]

00:59:55   C functions not audio units so anyway [TS]

00:59:59   well [TS]

00:59:59   well [TS]

01:00:00   long story short when you you know when [TS]

01:00:03   you send a file to the watch the phone [TS]

01:00:06   transcodes it it transcribes it also [TS]

01:00:08   down down to a lower bitrate I did a [TS]

01:00:10   whole bunch of testing to figure out [TS]

01:00:11   like what is the best low bitrate way [TS]

01:00:15   for spoken audio to to be heard on a [TS]

01:00:17   watch obviously there is some quality [TS]

01:00:19   loss so the it's it's just a question of [TS]

01:00:21   balance of how do i balance because the [TS]

01:00:23   bigger the files are the much longer [TS]

01:00:26   they take to transfer to the watch for [TS]

01:00:29   me that a whole bunch of testing with [TS]

01:00:30   HEA AC and AAC and and even things like [TS]

01:00:34   some of the newer formats the OGG what [TS]

01:00:37   is it opus I don't know if it's sorry if [TS]

01:00:39   it's not officially odd but it's from [TS]

01:00:41   those people the new opus format and [TS]

01:00:42   there's a whole bunch of other stuff and [TS]

01:00:44   that would have been harder to decode [TS]

01:00:46   because the watch doesn't support it [TS]

01:00:47   anyway I did a whole bunch of crazy [TS]

01:00:49   stuff I'm transcoding to that on the [TS]

01:00:51   phone on demand baking in smart speed it [TS]

01:00:54   also has a few other cool optimizations [TS]

01:00:56   for example if you are halfway through a [TS]

01:00:58   podcast and you say send to the watch it [TS]

01:01:00   only sends the second half because [TS]

01:01:02   there's no reason to send the part you [TS]

01:01:03   already listened to anyway here's all my [TS]

01:01:06   secrets that's how you do it and it's a [TS]

01:01:08   whole lot of work but now I finally have [TS]

01:01:10   offline watch playback and with the [TS]

01:01:12   version that will hopefully be approved [TS]

01:01:14   in the next day or two it'll be way way [TS]

01:01:16   better because it'll move to this new [TS]

01:01:17   API it's way more stable and has speaker [TS]

01:01:21   output and everything else so it's been [TS]

01:01:24   it's been quite a trip oh not to mention [TS]

01:01:26   the whole system of like syncing between [TS]

01:01:28   the watch and the phone that's a thing [TS]

01:01:29   you have to sync your progress and not [TS]

01:01:31   lose stuff and not have stuff clobber [TS]

01:01:33   itself during a sync and everything else [TS]

01:01:35   it's been it's been some quite quite a [TS]

01:01:38   lot of effort and all of this is for a [TS]

01:01:42   feature that relatively nobody will use [TS]

01:01:45   and it's hard to justify this but but [TS]

01:01:49   there's a few reasons why I thought it [TS]

01:01:50   was worth it you know right now it [TS]

01:01:52   according to my analytics something like [TS]

01:01:54   you know you know half a percent of [TS]

01:01:55   people are using it or something like [TS]

01:01:56   that [TS]

01:01:57   and I you know I haven't done a great [TS]

01:01:59   job of promoting it so a lot of people [TS]

01:02:01   don't know it's there yet but it's [TS]

01:02:02   there's there's not a lot of people who [TS]

01:02:05   are going to use this feature but it was [TS]

01:02:07   a very high demanded feature and it's [TS]

01:02:10   the kind of thing where like you might [TS]

01:02:12   decide so like [TS]

01:02:13   what I've done is while testing this I [TS]

01:02:16   have paired my favorite walking [TS]

01:02:18   headphones to my watch and so it kind of [TS]

01:02:22   forces me to use my watch more as the [TS]

01:02:24   podcast player because I don't want to [TS]

01:02:25   run pair and repair my headphones back [TS]

01:02:27   to my phone every time I like leave to [TS]

01:02:28   walk the dog so I've kind of gotten into [TS]

01:02:32   this habit over the last week or week or [TS]

01:02:34   two and and really you know really [TS]

01:02:36   gotten into this and it is pretty cool I [TS]

01:02:39   got to say it it is pretty nice [TS]

01:02:40   it's not as good as using a phone but [TS]

01:02:43   you have to carry a phone and for a lot [TS]

01:02:45   of people people have been begging me [TS]

01:02:47   since the watch came out this has been [TS]

01:02:49   one of the top featured or one of the [TS]

01:02:52   top feature requests for overcast since [TS]

01:02:54   the watch came out because a lot of [TS]

01:02:56   people either can't or don't want to [TS]

01:02:59   bring their phone certain places where [TS]

01:03:01   they can bring their watch it's a very [TS]

01:03:02   common request for example in certain [TS]

01:03:04   kinds of exercise like jogging where a [TS]

01:03:06   lot of people don't want to carry their [TS]

01:03:07   phone or it's too clunky or it's in some [TS]

01:03:09   kind of inconvenient like you know arm [TS]

01:03:11   thing or backpack or something else then [TS]

01:03:13   they want it to be totally on their [TS]

01:03:15   watch so I understand that I'm I'm [TS]

01:03:17   probably never going to run in my life [TS]

01:03:19   but I understand the people who do that [TS]

01:03:21   that's so like it matters a lot to a [TS]

01:03:24   small number of people that's the kind [TS]

01:03:28   of thing I enjoy doing you know it's [TS]

01:03:30   it's never going to be worth it by the [TS]

01:03:31   numbers but I do enjoy doing it just [TS]

01:03:33   because of how much it matters to that [TS]

01:03:36   small number of people and the fact is [TS]

01:03:38   it also I think business-wise it might [TS]

01:03:42   also be a safe bet it might also be a [TS]

01:03:44   good thing to do because you know Apple [TS]

01:03:47   likes it for one thing so you know it [TS]

01:03:48   probably makes my app more likely to be [TS]

01:03:50   featured by Apple in the future maybe it [TS]

01:03:53   increases my chances of getting an ad a [TS]

01:03:54   one can hope I never really think I have [TS]

01:03:57   a chance of that but I really want one [TS]

01:03:59   so one can hope right I also I think [TS]

01:04:04   that it's the kind of feature kind of [TS]

01:04:06   like when people buy SUVs and like what [TS]

01:04:08   if I need to haul something some day and [TS]

01:04:10   they never haul anything right but like [TS]

01:04:12   I feel like if you're looking at [TS]

01:04:14   podcast apps that are out there and you [TS]

01:04:16   you might think oh I want that even if [TS]

01:04:19   you never end up using it or you hardly [TS]

01:04:21   ever use it that might have still helped [TS]

01:04:24   me you know get that sale or get that [TS]

01:04:26   person to [TS]

01:04:27   overcast instead of something else so I [TS]

01:04:29   think in it for a lot of reason I think [TS]

01:04:31   it is probably worth having done it did [TS]

01:04:34   take a lot longer than I thought it [TS]

01:04:36   would and a lot more work than I thought [TS]

01:04:37   it would and it's not done either like [TS]

01:04:39   there's what I have now is a system [TS]

01:04:42   where you still have to manually send [TS]

01:04:44   episodes one by one to the watch and [TS]

01:04:46   they still take forever to transfer and [TS]

01:04:48   I'm not entirely sure I can ever really [TS]

01:04:51   fix the taking forever transfer thing [TS]

01:04:53   I'm you know that might just have to [TS]

01:04:54   like wait out the hardware advancements [TS]

01:04:56   but like you know sending one by one to [TS]

01:04:58   the watch is also not great people have [TS]

01:05:01   requested things like automatically send [TS]

01:05:03   episodes of this podcast or this [TS]

01:05:05   playlist to the watch and that has its [TS]

01:05:07   own challenges and limitations like for [TS]

01:05:09   instance I don't really know how much [TS]

01:05:11   space I have to deal with and but if you [TS]

01:05:13   see if you tell people you can send this [TS]

01:05:15   playlist to the watch I'm going to [TS]

01:05:17   design this feature for my place which [TS]

01:05:19   might have like 15 podcasts on it at [TS]

01:05:20   most and then somebody like John is [TS]

01:05:22   going to use it and they're going to try [TS]

01:05:23   to sync 400 audiobooks to it and they're [TS]

01:05:26   gonna be mad when it doesn't work [TS]

01:05:26   because there's no one there's not not [TS]

01:05:28   enough space in the watch which I can't [TS]

01:05:29   even tell as the programmer so it it [TS]

01:05:31   doing anything more because of the [TS]

01:05:34   constrained nature of the watch is going [TS]

01:05:37   to be harder than doing those same [TS]

01:05:38   things on the iPhone it's also going to [TS]

01:05:41   be like massive UI challenges right like [TS]

01:05:44   people are already asking for things [TS]

01:05:45   like chapter navigation on the watch and [TS]

01:05:47   it's like it's really hard to fit a good [TS]

01:05:51   UI that is both attractive and usable on [TS]

01:05:55   that watch screen and it's everything [TS]

01:06:00   people want me to do with this feature [TS]

01:06:01   is is going to be hard to do basically [TS]

01:06:06   but I think I finally got the basics [TS]

01:06:09   nailed down in this update that [TS]

01:06:10   hopefully we'll be shipping around the [TS]

01:06:12   time this podcast comes out the the [TS]

01:06:14   three point one point two update [TS]

01:06:17   hopefully already will have that now and [TS]

01:06:19   and it's going to be great and I'm kind [TS]

01:06:21   of glad to have it finally be done and [TS]

01:06:22   now I have a reason use my watch again [TS]

01:06:24   yeah so have you been using the watch [TS]

01:06:27   for anything other than podcasting uh [TS]

01:06:29   well you know I use it on my dog walk so [TS]

01:06:32   you know I still prefer mechanical [TS]

01:06:34   watches greatly for general use in [TS]

01:06:37   general wearing but the Apple watch is [TS]

01:06:41   as the entire world Plus Apple have [TS]

01:06:43   figured out over the last you know year [TS]

01:06:44   or two whatever it's been the Apple [TS]

01:06:46   watch is pretty good for fitness stuff [TS]

01:06:48   and so I haven't quite enjoying on my [TS]

01:06:50   dog walks being able to track the the [TS]

01:06:53   time and distance that I have gone and [TS]

01:06:55   and get my school GPS map of it if I [TS]

01:06:58   ever want that it will probably remain [TS]

01:07:00   my like taking walks watch but for other [TS]

01:07:04   times in my day [TS]

01:07:05   I prefer mechanicals for other reasons [TS]

01:07:08   did you get a series too I mentioned the [TS]

01:07:11   GP are you saying because you have your [TS]

01:07:12   phone with you that's why you get the [TS]

01:07:13   GPS trace no I actually did get a series [TS]

01:07:15   - I got a series - this past spring or [TS]

01:07:19   this past winter while testing this [TS]

01:07:20   because the build run debug loop on the [TS]

01:07:24   Apple watch is so incredibly slow [TS]

01:07:26   because the the hardware is really basic [TS]

01:07:29   in it and when you're doing like [TS]

01:07:30   building run and build and run and debug [TS]

01:07:31   it's all going also through your phone [TS]

01:07:33   and into the watch over Bluetooth or [TS]

01:07:36   whatever it's very very slow the point [TS]

01:07:38   we're like changing something on the [TS]

01:07:40   watch and building and building and [TS]

01:07:42   running might be like a 45 second long [TS]

01:07:43   cycle and when you're doing a lot of [TS]

01:07:45   that that time really adds up and really [TS]

01:07:47   gets annoying [TS]

01:07:48   so as suit like after like a day of like [TS]

01:07:52   trying all these deployment methods in [TS]

01:07:54   the watch I went to the Apple Store guys [TS]

01:07:55   serious - I'm like because I asked [TS]

01:07:57   underscore like is it faster and he [TS]

01:07:59   actually of course he timed it of course [TS]

01:08:01   he knew like exactly - the sellers and [TS]

01:08:03   it was something like 20 seconds faster [TS]

01:08:05   on the serious - I'm like done sold if [TS]

01:08:07   you can save me 20 seconds every single [TS]

01:08:09   time I'm building and running on the [TS]

01:08:10   watch that is going to add up and it did [TS]

01:08:13   so I do have a series - I'm very very [TS]

01:08:16   glad I got the series - because the [TS]

01:08:18   difference for development was [TS]

01:08:21   immediately and an incredibly apparent [TS]

01:08:24   so what series - did you get I know [TS]

01:08:26   you're just getting it oh I just want [TS]

01:08:27   something that's faster for me to do my [TS]

01:08:29   builds on right but then did you go okay [TS]

01:08:31   well since I'm buying one which one do I [TS]

01:08:33   want what color dwell on what bands like [TS]

01:08:35   what did you get you know I did go [TS]

01:08:36   through a lot of that that that d-bags I [TS]

01:08:38   think I'm like I'm just getting it for [TS]

01:08:40   development I should just get the [TS]

01:08:41   aluminum basic cheapo the cheapest one I [TS]

01:08:43   can get like you know just get down I [TS]

01:08:44   should even tell you every fiber of your [TS]

01:08:46   being screams out no well I [TS]

01:08:49   in theory I don't even need the series - [TS]

01:08:50   I could have gotten this series one same [TS]

01:08:52   processor same speed just [TS]

01:08:54   no GPS no GPS and not super waterproof [TS]

01:08:57   so I could have gotten that but once [TS]

01:08:59   again your inner Markos is now well [TS]

01:09:02   here's the thing oh here we go [TS]

01:09:05   so I'm accustomed to now wearing nice [TS]

01:09:08   watches the reason I got in ties it was [TS]

01:09:10   a need to have a watch that lets you [TS]

01:09:12   live in the style to which you have [TS]

01:09:14   become accustomed the reason I got into [TS]

01:09:17   nice watches is because I fell in love [TS]

01:09:21   with how the Apple watch made me feel [TS]

01:09:24   when I looked at it on my wrist that is [TS]

01:09:27   why when the Apple watch first came out [TS]

01:09:29   I obsessed [TS]

01:09:31   crazily over which bands to get which [TS]

01:09:34   color combinations worked like I I went [TS]

01:09:37   over this for like weeks I was agonizing [TS]

01:09:39   like Oh will this man be more convenient [TS]

01:09:40   to latch or this one or whatever else [TS]

01:09:42   and so it mattered a lot to me and I and [TS]

01:09:45   I really enjoy the way the steel watch [TS]

01:09:48   looks I and I really unfortunately don't [TS]

01:09:51   enjoy the way the aluminum ones look the [TS]

01:09:53   aluminum ones to me look a lot like a [TS]

01:09:56   phone on your wrist the steel ones don't [TS]

01:09:59   look like an analog device by any means [TS]

01:10:01   but I think the steel ones are very [TS]

01:10:03   attractive I decided after much [TS]

01:10:05   agonizing that I wanted a steel one [TS]

01:10:07   again the only way to get a steel one [TS]

01:10:09   was to get the series two you can't you [TS]

01:10:11   can get the series one and steel so I [TS]

01:10:13   got the series two and I got the steel [TS]

01:10:14   and I have it on I think it came with a [TS]

01:10:19   Milanese because the only one I could [TS]

01:10:20   get in stock which I immediately sold [TS]

01:10:21   and I'm just using my old sport band [TS]

01:10:24   with it it makes me a little sad that [TS]

01:10:27   you haven't decided to come crawling [TS]

01:10:28   back to the Apple watch but you know [TS]

01:10:29   teach their own like what you like no I [TS]

01:10:31   mean it it has a no question and has a [TS]

01:10:34   lot of utility but it also has a lot of [TS]

01:10:37   things that's not so great about and it [TS]

01:10:40   like man like when I'm wearing it now [TS]

01:10:43   like for this testing these testing [TS]

01:10:45   periods every time I turn my wrist to [TS]

01:10:48   look at the time it doesn't show like [TS]

01:10:50   every time just like just oh let me [TS]

01:10:53   exaggerate this motion again or let me [TS]

01:10:54   tap it and just come on so yeah like [TS]

01:10:57   when you're accustomed to regular [TS]

01:10:59   watches the Apple watch has a few things [TS]

01:11:01   about it that are very annoying it [TS]

01:11:02   mostly the the delay when looking at the [TS]

01:11:04   time [TS]

01:11:05   and so it's fine you know it the all the [TS]

01:11:09   utilities of it things like [TS]

01:11:11   notifications all day and stuff I don't [TS]

01:11:13   really care I don't I turn off most [TS]

01:11:16   notifications I don't like having a lot [TS]

01:11:17   of them so most of that stuff doesn't is [TS]

01:11:21   not of much used to me [TS]

01:11:22   and the fitness stuff I don't usually [TS]

01:11:25   have much of a fitness regimen when I do [TS]

01:11:27   its extensive dog walking so I'm using [TS]

01:11:29   it now for that for most things in my [TS]

01:11:32   life I don't have the kind of lifestyle [TS]

01:11:34   that benefits heavily from the Apple [TS]

01:11:37   watch's good things and the Apple [TS]

01:11:39   watch's bad things irritate me did you [TS]

01:11:41   get the Earth Day badge I did not I did [TS]

01:11:44   get reminded about the Earth Day badge [TS]

01:11:47   on Earth Day but I had dismissed and did [TS]

01:11:49   not get it I didn't get it because was [TS]

01:11:53   disgusting weather over here I didn't [TS]

01:11:55   get that one I did get the turkey day [TS]

01:11:57   one but I did not get the earth day one [TS]

01:11:59   what did you John no fair enough and you [TS]

01:12:02   haven't put your watch on in months [TS]

01:12:03   icing I wore it on vacation or at the [TS]

01:12:06   whole week why did you wear it on [TS]

01:12:07   vacation that's it's what I do I do it [TS]

01:12:09   when I travel well and I will say it is [TS]

01:12:12   a really nice travel watch because it [TS]

01:12:13   sets tone time zone and you can have [TS]

01:12:15   your boarding passes showing on there [TS]

01:12:17   and everything also it is kind of nice [TS]

01:12:18   for that and walking directions in the [TS]

01:12:20   city to be able to like tap on your [TS]

01:12:21   wrist tell you which Street to turn down [TS]

01:12:23   instead of the console I take out your [TS]

01:12:24   phone yeah that's true yet the main [TS]

01:12:26   downside for me is then you have to [TS]

01:12:27   bring its separate charger and I'm [TS]

01:12:29   trying to minimize the chargers that I [TS]

01:12:31   bring on trips and that's usually a [TS]

01:12:33   really easy one to let go of all right [TS]

01:12:36   anything else on anything watch related [TS]

01:12:39   hopefully not it's been a lot a lot of [TS]

01:12:43   Apple watch stuff less last couple of [TS]

01:12:45   weeks but I think you've been working a [TS]

01:12:48   lot yeah I know how do you well and like [TS]

01:12:51   this whole like the whole transcoding [TS]

01:12:52   engine and baking and smart speed that I [TS]

01:12:54   did all that work was all done months [TS]

01:12:56   ago and I've just been just been sitting [TS]

01:12:58   on it waiting for a chance to use it and [TS]

01:13:00   and waiting for basically waiting for [TS]

01:13:02   the watch api's to both get better and [TS]

01:13:05   for me to figure them out which both had [TS]

01:13:07   to happen for this to finally be [TS]

01:13:10   released but here it is we are sponsored [TS]

01:13:13   this week by Squarespace start building [TS]

01:13:16   your website today at squarespace.com [TS]

01:13:17   and enter offer code [TS]

01:13:19   a teepee at checkout to get 10% off make [TS]

01:13:21   your next move with a beautiful website [TS]

01:13:23   from Squarespace many of us listening to [TS]

01:13:25   the show [TS]

01:13:26   are programmers or otherwise nerds and [TS]

01:13:28   we know how to make websites without [TS]

01:13:30   using Squarespace it's a lot of work [TS]

01:13:32   it's a lot of time [TS]

01:13:33   and it's a lot of ongoing maintenance [TS]

01:13:35   and support that frankly you probably [TS]

01:13:37   shouldn't be spending your time doing [TS]

01:13:39   because for like 90% of what people need [TS]

01:13:42   out of websites Squarespace does it all [TS]

01:13:45   Squarespace has built in blogs [TS]

01:13:48   portfolios even stores all sorts of [TS]

01:13:51   content sites that you can make and even [TS]

01:13:53   dynamic store sites with Squarespace it [TS]

01:13:54   is really incredible what you can do is [TS]

01:13:57   Squarespace and no matter what your [TS]

01:13:58   skill level is if you're a novice all [TS]

01:14:01   the way up to if you're a web programmer [TS]

01:14:03   Squarespace can work for you it's easy [TS]

01:14:05   to use but there's Advanced Options if [TS]

01:14:07   you want them everything can be visual [TS]

01:14:09   and drag-and-drop or you can get in [TS]

01:14:11   there and actually edit code it spans [TS]

01:14:14   the gamut and best of all once you get [TS]

01:14:16   your site set up a Squarespace you don't [TS]

01:14:18   really need to touch it if you're making [TS]

01:14:20   a site for yourself or somebody else [TS]

01:14:22   Squarespace supports it and their [TS]

01:14:24   platform handles it and they give you [TS]

01:14:26   upgrades and if you you had these great [TS]

01:14:28   beautiful designs you don't have to [TS]

01:14:29   worry about you don't have to do things [TS]

01:14:31   like test them on new devices as they [TS]

01:14:33   come out to make sure they look right on [TS]

01:14:34   the new screen size of whatever no they [TS]

01:14:36   do that for you and if you want to [TS]

01:14:38   change your whole design you can do it [TS]

01:14:39   like two clicks it's amazing what you [TS]

01:14:41   can do with Squarespace with very very [TS]

01:14:43   little work so start your free trial [TS]

01:14:45   today I highly suggest that you try it [TS]

01:14:48   because it is not worth spending your [TS]

01:14:50   time mucking around with some manual [TS]

01:14:52   installation of some CMS on some server [TS]

01:14:54   just use Squarespace and be done with it [TS]

01:14:56   and move on to the thing you actually [TS]

01:14:58   need the website for whether it's a [TS]

01:14:59   project or a new business or whatever [TS]

01:15:01   else make your next move with [TS]

01:15:03   Squarespace start a free trial set today [TS]

01:15:05   at squarespace.com and when you decide [TS]

01:15:07   to sign up make sure to use the offer [TS]

01:15:08   code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

01:15:11   purchase make your next move with [TS]

01:15:13   Squarespace ah [TS]

01:15:14   [Music] [TS]

01:15:17   yet another tick in the uber is gross [TS]

01:15:20   box it seems like uber has been using [TS]

01:15:24   private a api's to read Iowa iPhone [TS]

01:15:29   serial numbers and/or they were doing [TS]

01:15:32   this anyway [TS]

01:15:33   a couple years ago they were reading [TS]

01:15:34   iPhone serial numbers reporting them up [TS]

01:15:36   to their own servers and thus this [TS]

01:15:38   allowed them to track installations [TS]

01:15:43   between deletes so you could install [TS]

01:15:46   uber it would look at your phone serial [TS]

01:15:48   number let's call it one two three four [TS]

01:15:50   five it's the same combination I have in [TS]

01:15:51   my luggage and then uh it you would [TS]

01:15:54   delete the app it would you could then [TS]

01:15:55   reinstall it later it will see that the [TS]

01:15:58   serial numbers still one two three four [TS]

01:15:59   five and it would say haha this is user [TS]

01:16:01   abcdefg and so allegedly they were using [TS]

01:16:06   this for fraud prevention which is a [TS]

01:16:09   legitimate explanation I think but it [TS]

01:16:12   just feels super gross and so the story [TS]

01:16:16   goes that Tim Cook called in Travis [TS]

01:16:17   kalanick Callen ik whatever his name is [TS]

01:16:20   the really skeezy head of uber and [TS]

01:16:23   basically said if you don't get rid of [TS]

01:16:25   this posthaste we're going to pull you [TS]

01:16:27   from the App Store and guess what [TS]

01:16:29   happened they got rid of it I don't [TS]

01:16:31   think there's that many interesting [TS]

01:16:33   things to discuss here but perhaps one [TS]

01:16:35   of you has some thoughts that I haven't [TS]

01:16:37   thought of yet I mean to me that the [TS]

01:16:39   main interesting part here I mean you [TS]

01:16:40   know we know this had been talked to [TS]

01:16:41   death another shows so we're not going [TS]

01:16:43   to when I can I spend a lot of time on [TS]

01:16:44   it the interesting part to me here is [TS]

01:16:46   not necessarily the horrible things that [TS]

01:16:49   that Hooper did because uber is always [TS]

01:16:50   doing horrible things I urge anybody out [TS]

01:16:52   there to stop using it I've been using [TS]

01:16:54   lyft since one of their other recent [TS]

01:16:56   scandals and it's great totally fine [TS]

01:16:58   it's like the same or better so just use [TS]

01:17:00   lyft or something else you know it's [TS]

01:17:02   fine stop using mover anyway one of the [TS]

01:17:07   cool things about this that I thought [TS]

01:17:08   was worth mentioning is and first of all [TS]

01:17:11   all these holes that we know of are now [TS]

01:17:13   patched ioq it out gets a weird [TS]

01:17:16   framework there's a lot there's all [TS]

01:17:19   sorts of stuff on your phone that apps [TS]

01:17:21   should not have access to things like [TS]

01:17:23   the phone part of it [TS]

01:17:25   there's a reason why like apps can't [TS]

01:17:26   like you know dial your phone for you [TS]

01:17:29   without interaction or read your phone [TS]

01:17:30   calls or anything all the stuff that iOS [TS]

01:17:33   must wall off from apps is a private [TS]

01:17:37   framework and the way iOS is structured [TS]

01:17:39   apps with the exception of jail breaking [TS]

01:17:42   which ruins everything [TS]

01:17:43   but regularly in your phone [TS]

01:17:46   apps can't call into private frameworks [TS]

01:17:48   they just technically can't there's no [TS]

01:17:50   way to do it they're walled off from [TS]

01:17:52   apps IO kit is technically not one of [TS]

01:17:57   these in its the role of Ayoka dismal in [TS]

01:18:01   iOS is mostly to read data about the [TS]

01:18:03   hardware and a lot of things that are in [TS]

01:18:05   the UI device API are just thin wrappers [TS]

01:18:09   around UI kit calls things like reading [TS]

01:18:11   the the screen brightness level or the [TS]

01:18:13   system wrappers around IO kit call sorry [TS]

01:18:16   yeah or the system battery level or you [TS]

01:18:18   know things like that it just [TS]

01:18:20   information about the hardware this is [TS]

01:18:22   where things like the UDID used to be [TS]

01:18:24   although now that's that's no longer [TS]

01:18:26   available and Apple is pretty good about [TS]

01:18:30   like any any way that you that you have [TS]

01:18:33   to to youth identify phones Apple has [TS]

01:18:36   been slowly getting rid of the i/o kit [TS]

01:18:39   for whatever reason as I said like it's [TS]

01:18:41   it's not in that walled off area where [TS]

01:18:44   the rest of the private frameworks are [TS]

01:18:45   so that it actually is callable but it's [TS]

01:18:49   that we aren't allowed to it's [TS]

01:18:51   undocumented at least iOS and it's it's [TS]

01:18:54   you know officially forbidden a new [TS]

01:18:56   bruise beam all sorts of tricks to avoid [TS]

01:18:57   being detected so I think there there [TS]

01:19:01   are two angles of this that are worth [TS]

01:19:03   talking about one is is it possible for [TS]

01:19:08   Apple to prevent the use of private [TS]

01:19:12   api's on a large scale the way that they [TS]

01:19:15   usually prevent it is during a preview [TS]

01:19:18   they have some kind of special testing [TS]

01:19:20   environment where if an app calls a [TS]

01:19:23   private API during a preview or if it [TS]

01:19:27   has a private API symbols like literally [TS]

01:19:31   in the app so if it has like the name of [TS]

01:19:32   a private function in the code Apple can [TS]

01:19:36   flag that and it will reject it [TS]

01:19:37   automatically for that but there are [TS]

01:19:39   ways to get around this one of them is [TS]

01:19:41   if you you can load the module [TS]

01:19:43   dynamically or you couldn't you can not [TS]

01:19:45   have the name of the function in the [TS]

01:19:47   code you can have a scrambled string [TS]

01:19:50   that encode you unscramble at runtime [TS]

01:19:53   and then call that that's usually how [TS]

01:19:56   these things are done and again this [TS]

01:19:58   doesn't work for calling super private [TS]

01:19:59   frameworks [TS]

01:20:00   but it does work for calling private [TS]

01:20:02   methods on public things or for for for [TS]

01:20:06   the framework of I okay which is this [TS]

01:20:08   weird kind of middle ground where it is [TS]

01:20:09   kind of technically public anyway do you [TS]

01:20:11   think there is a way for Apple to ever [TS]

01:20:15   fix that yeah it's kind of the halting [TS]

01:20:18   problem thing where can you tell me here [TS]

01:20:21   is this program can you tell me how this [TS]

01:20:23   program behaves you know in the general [TS]

01:20:28   case no not really but all these things [TS]

01:20:30   you're talking about all you need to do [TS]

01:20:33   I think is do enough so that if [TS]

01:20:38   something gets through your system it [TS]

01:20:41   was clearly done intentionally and like [TS]

01:20:43   in the uber case one of the other [TS]

01:20:44   stories about this is that the way they [TS]

01:20:48   were getting around is you know have all [TS]

01:20:49   these secret ways of dynamically loading [TS]

01:20:51   the code and a lot of stuff but just to [TS]

01:20:53   be safe don't do that when the GPS [TS]

01:20:57   detects that you're somewhere within [TS]

01:20:58   Apple's campus right to the geofence [TS]

01:21:00   like the Apple campus and say you know [TS]

01:21:02   when you're inside this perimeter don't [TS]

01:21:04   ever try to do the sneaky thing only [TS]

01:21:06   when you're outside this perimeter [TS]

01:21:07   somewhere else on earth then do the [TS]

01:21:09   sneaky thing to call a private API so in [TS]

01:21:11   that case like you know the trying to [TS]

01:21:13   detect hey is the program doing that [TS]

01:21:15   like in general no there's no general [TS]

01:21:17   purpose computer Bowl reasonable time [TS]

01:21:19   way to figure that out or at all [TS]

01:21:22   actually [TS]

01:21:22   you know because it literally isn't [TS]

01:21:26   calling the bad API and you know then [TS]

01:21:28   you have to detect how can I tell if it [TS]

01:21:30   is doing something let's know when it [TS]

01:21:32   shouldn't do the naughty thing that it's [TS]

01:21:34   doing you know but but again you just [TS]

01:21:36   make the test hard enough so that if it [TS]

01:21:38   is doing that someone can't say oh we [TS]

01:21:40   just did that by accident I was just a [TS]

01:21:41   bug right now I didn't mean to do that [TS]

01:21:43   at all it's so clearly intentional like [TS]

01:21:44   at the point where you're putting [TS]

01:21:46   scrambled strings or assembling symbol [TS]

01:21:48   names out of a bunch of scrambled data [TS]

01:21:50   spread all over your program right like [TS]

01:21:52   there's no way you can you can say [TS]

01:21:55   explain that away first is say oh I just [TS]

01:21:57   called an apple API on the Apple API [TS]

01:21:59   called a private thing that accessed [TS]

01:22:00   some files of the sandbox and it's [TS]

01:22:02   totally not my fault and it happens all [TS]

01:22:03   the time at be like oh yeah I can see [TS]

01:22:04   you know eventually you can convince [TS]

01:22:07   Apple this I was not doing anything [TS]

01:22:08   intentionally bad this is just some you [TS]

01:22:11   know something that you didn't realize [TS]

01:22:12   was actually happening in your [TS]

01:22:13   code and I'm doing the right thing let's [TS]

01:22:15   just all get through it so I think [TS]

01:22:17   that's all they need to it's probably [TS]

01:22:18   what they're currently doing and I think [TS]

01:22:20   that is that's probably sufficient I was [TS]

01:22:24   thinking to like the environment they [TS]

01:22:26   have an app review that automatically [TS]

01:22:28   detects whenever this boundary is [TS]

01:22:30   crossed that that you know your app is [TS]

01:22:32   calling something private that it [TS]

01:22:33   shouldn't be what if they could deploy [TS]

01:22:35   that to iPhones and maybe not to all I [TS]

01:22:38   phones because I assume there's some [TS]

01:22:40   degree of overhead involved here that [TS]

01:22:43   maybe would make it to power inefficient [TS]

01:22:45   or too slow but what if they deployed it [TS]

01:22:47   to say a large group of Apple employees [TS]

01:22:50   phones you know like what would that [TS]

01:22:53   would probably catch a lot of things in [TS]

01:22:54   popular apps right so like whatever [TS]

01:22:57   whatever environment they have to detect [TS]

01:22:58   these things in a preview spread that [TS]

01:23:00   out wider maybe they have like a whole [TS]

01:23:02   bunch of virtual iPhones in the cloud [TS]

01:23:04   that that you know simulate using apps [TS]

01:23:08   and they track them on those they could [TS]

01:23:10   do all sorts of fun stuff [TS]

01:23:11   legatus override GPS like to get rid of [TS]

01:23:13   the geofence oh sure like if you're once [TS]

01:23:15   you're running this faked environment [TS]

01:23:16   you just don't you just you know [TS]

01:23:17   hard-code the GPS to be Antarctica or [TS]

01:23:19   something and you're you know you're all [TS]

01:23:21   set right exactly [TS]

01:23:22   and you know change the IP and [TS]

01:23:23   everything else so anyway I think [TS]

01:23:25   expanding that virtual environment would [TS]

01:23:27   be one way to do this whether they are [TS]

01:23:29   you know that that like you know [TS]

01:23:30   tripwire environment whether it's just [TS]

01:23:32   Apple employees or whether it's [TS]

01:23:34   simulated things in the cloud or whether [TS]

01:23:35   it's both or who knows I think they [TS]

01:23:37   could they could do a lot there the [TS]

01:23:39   second thing I wanted to talk about [TS]

01:23:40   about the uber thing though which i [TS]

01:23:42   think is probably more interesting is [TS]

01:23:43   the dynamic here of this large app [TS]

01:23:48   violates of rule in a pretty big way [TS]

01:23:52   like really obviously you know knowing [TS]

01:23:55   it willfully violating it blocking out [TS]

01:23:58   apples campus area so they wouldn't see [TS]

01:24:00   it uh you know evading detection do it [TS]

01:24:04   like it obviously this was not like whoo [TS]

01:24:06   I accidentally call the serial number [TS]

01:24:07   function like no this is like willful [TS]

01:24:10   violation and malicious intent to you [TS]

01:24:13   know evade these these rules are there [TS]

01:24:16   for very good reasons in order to invade [TS]

01:24:18   people's privacy like it's it's really [TS]

01:24:20   bad and it you know if I did that in [TS]

01:24:24   overcast I would be kicked out of the [TS]

01:24:26   App Store immediately [TS]

01:24:27   and there would be no recourse I would [TS]

01:24:30   be lucky if I was even told the reason [TS]

01:24:32   and that would be it I'd be gone but if [TS]

01:24:36   Facebook does things like this and [TS]

01:24:38   they're applix they do and they get [TS]

01:24:41   caught sometimes and they say it's a bug [TS]

01:24:43   sorry we left the owners fishing running [TS]

01:24:44   it's a bug that we are running [TS]

01:24:46   constantly in the background when you we [TS]

01:24:47   are in use [TS]

01:24:49   you know they face because all the time [TS]

01:24:51   twitter has twitter it's all sorts of [TS]

01:24:53   awful things with you know tracking apps [TS]

01:24:55   that are installed and everything apples [TS]

01:24:56   locked out most of them but and then you [TS]

01:24:59   know you then you have goober doing [TS]

01:25:01   crazy craft like this and again and and [TS]

01:25:03   their crazy location stuff oh we need [TS]

01:25:05   your location all the time now and all [TS]

01:25:06   sorts of creative stuff if a big company [TS]

01:25:09   breaks a rule even in the most brazen [TS]

01:25:12   outrageous way like this they get a [TS]

01:25:15   meeting with Tim Cook where Tim Cook [TS]

01:25:17   calmly expresses his disappointment in [TS]

01:25:19   them and like any good to have it up and [TS]

01:25:22   out man I would not want to be in there [TS]

01:25:24   but and and sternly tells them like [TS]

01:25:27   you're gonna stop doing this now like [TS]

01:25:29   that's that's certainly a stern warning [TS]

01:25:31   but like that's awfully special [TS]

01:25:33   treatment that is being incredibly [TS]

01:25:35   generous towards this company that is [TS]

01:25:38   literally defrauding you like it's like [TS]

01:25:40   it's there they're doing really there's [TS]

01:25:46   no way to read this charitably right why [TS]

01:25:49   wasn't ever just kicked out of the App [TS]

01:25:52   Store and I think the answer to that is [TS]

01:25:53   interesting so like I have some theories [TS]

01:25:55   you know obviously there's a question of [TS]

01:25:58   like who needs who more right and I [TS]

01:26:01   think the answer is okay I think Apple [TS]

01:26:04   could afford to do that you know i think [TS]

01:26:05   i think eibar needs Apple more than [TS]

01:26:07   Apple needs uber but you do have to [TS]

01:26:08   think about it just for a second like [TS]

01:26:10   you know how many customers would Apple [TS]

01:26:12   lose by doing that like it's probably [TS]

01:26:14   not zero you know so that's something [TS]

01:26:17   you have to think about right it would [TS]

01:26:19   be even worse if that was Facebook you [TS]

01:26:22   know like it's so like there are these [TS]

01:26:24   big companies that Apple actually [TS]

01:26:27   doesn't wield complete power over that [TS]

01:26:29   there is some power in the other [TS]

01:26:31   direction as well and uber is big enough [TS]

01:26:33   that I think it's one of those Facebook [TS]

01:26:35   is certainly one of those Facebook is [TS]

01:26:38   probably the biggest one actually when [TS]

01:26:39   you talk about iOS apps me except maybe [TS]

01:26:41   maybe YouTube or Google Google Maps [TS]

01:26:43   would about to be pretty high up there [TS]

01:26:44   but but Facebook I think is far the [TS]

01:26:46   biggest so if there's that angle of like [TS]

01:26:49   Apple maybe can't kick out some they're [TS]

01:26:52   like too big to fail if they like too [TS]

01:26:53   big to kick out okay also if somebody [TS]

01:26:57   like Facebook or uber got kicked out of [TS]

01:26:59   the App Store they'd probably sue Apple [TS]

01:27:01   and what would be the result of that [TS]

01:27:03   lawsuit would they bring up any trust [TS]

01:27:05   would Apple be at risk of maybe having [TS]

01:27:09   to give up some of their control over [TS]

01:27:11   the App Store for antitrust concerns or [TS]

01:27:13   for other legal concerns like would they [TS]

01:27:16   be at risk of giving up app approval [TS]

01:27:18   I don't think over would sue Apple I [TS]

01:27:21   don't see anyone suing Apple for this [TS]

01:27:24   like yeah I hear people talk about it [TS]

01:27:26   sometimes but they're their big problems [TS]

01:27:29   with that first of all Apple has more [TS]

01:27:31   money than you like whoever you is Apple [TS]

01:27:34   has more money than you right so in [TS]

01:27:37   general it's good when people have a lot [TS]

01:27:39   of money you want to sue them and get [TS]

01:27:40   some of that money but it's bad if [TS]

01:27:42   you're going into a lawsuit that may [TS]

01:27:43   turn out to be like this long-running [TS]

01:27:44   thing because you will run out of money [TS]

01:27:46   before Apple does and second the suit [TS]

01:27:50   for the case for antitrust on Apple [TS]

01:27:52   grows weaker by the day as Android is [TS]

01:27:55   like 80% smartphone market share and [TS]

01:27:56   growing you know worldwide it's really [TS]

01:27:59   trough to make that sell and third the [TS]

01:28:02   whole app store agreement everything is [TS]

01:28:04   I feel like pretty ironclad and doesn't [TS]

01:28:07   leave any room and your only hope would [TS]

01:28:08   be to say yeah but it's a special [TS]

01:28:10   situation because Apple has a monopoly [TS]

01:28:11   on XY and Z like it is it's so difficult [TS]

01:28:14   I feel like there's almost no legal [TS]

01:28:17   recourse the only the best way you could [TS]

01:28:18   go is maybe defamation example a lot to [TS]

01:28:20   say uber was doing a naughty thing and [TS]

01:28:22   they could say no we weren't Apple is [TS]

01:28:24   you know whatever whatever they give [TS]

01:28:26   equivalent of defamation for companies [TS]

01:28:28   there's probably maybe it's the same [TS]

01:28:29   thing but I don't see the antitrust as [TS]

01:28:32   being a certain I see I see this like [TS]

01:28:33   the the first thing you said that'd be a [TS]

01:28:35   similar situation that I think we've all [TS]

01:28:37   experienced in some way directly or [TS]

01:28:39   indirectly in the u.s. anyway has been [TS]

01:28:41   fights between cable companies and [TS]

01:28:43   channels right where there's some [TS]

01:28:45   disagreement about how much does it cost [TS]

01:28:47   to get HBO or ESPN on the cable package [TS]

01:28:49   this is going back in time a little bit [TS]

01:28:50   back when people select cable and [TS]

01:28:54   there would be this this standoff in the [TS]

01:28:57   same way this is a standoff between Tim [TS]

01:28:59   Cook and uber or whatever like again [TS]

01:29:00   Facebook is totally the biggest one say [TS]

01:29:02   Facebook does nasty things Wyatt is [TS]

01:29:03   Facebook and I could kicked out why do [TS]

01:29:05   they get like a stern talking-to because [TS]

01:29:06   it's a game of chicken it's like you [TS]

01:29:09   know that we can kick you out of the [TS]

01:29:10   store and we know that you know that if [TS]

01:29:13   we kick you out of the store it would be [TS]

01:29:15   disastrous for us in our platform but we [TS]

01:29:18   might just do it anyway to teach you a [TS]

01:29:19   lesson like temporarily and so they just [TS]

01:29:21   stared at each other you know waiting to [TS]

01:29:23   see who who twitches first and with the [TS]

01:29:26   cable companies in the channel is very [TS]

01:29:27   often against to the point where it's [TS]

01:29:28   like sorry you know Comcast is no longer [TS]

01:29:31   going to have ESPN writers no longer [TS]

01:29:33   going to carry Yankees games on this [TS]

01:29:35   channel whatever and then it's a PR war [TS]

01:29:38   between the cable company and the [TS]

01:29:41   channel to say call the the cable [TS]

01:29:44   company and tell them you demand to get [TS]

01:29:46   the channel back and the cable company [TS]

01:29:48   says call whatever and tell them that [TS]

01:29:50   you demand to be more reasonable because [TS]

01:29:51   we can't pay you know what I mean and [TS]

01:29:53   that game of chicken usually doesn't [TS]

01:29:55   last that long and what always ends up [TS]

01:29:57   happening is the channel comes back to [TS]

01:29:59   the cable carrier in most cases if it's [TS]

01:30:00   an important enough channel because in [TS]

01:30:02   the end an iPhone without Facebook is a [TS]

01:30:06   bigger problem than an iPhone with a [TS]

01:30:09   Facebook that violates the rules every [TS]

01:30:10   once in a while and asked and you know [TS]

01:30:11   and then like you Yelp them and you [TS]

01:30:13   catch them and they fix it right and so [TS]

01:30:15   like and the people don't know who to [TS]

01:30:17   blame why can't I get me again anymore I [TS]

01:30:19   turn on TV I can't get the channel [TS]

01:30:21   anymore I'm going to change cable [TS]

01:30:22   writers if I can at all if I can't kill [TS]

01:30:24   four hours I'm just intricately angry [TS]

01:30:26   but I can't change providers you know if [TS]

01:30:29   that's the one channel that was the most [TS]

01:30:30   important channel to me I'm going to [TS]

01:30:31   change providers people would change [TS]

01:30:33   phones that they couldn't get Facebook [TS]

01:30:34   it's like you can get an iPhone but oh I [TS]

01:30:36   heard the iPhone does that Facebook [TS]

01:30:37   anymore they will get a different phone [TS]

01:30:38   that's the kind of power Facebook ever [TS]

01:30:41   have that power probably not as much [TS]

01:30:42   it's much smaller [TS]

01:30:43   their alternatives to yada yada yada but [TS]

01:30:45   that's that's the whole that's the whole [TS]

01:30:47   relationship here so I don't think you [TS]

01:30:49   know I don't think you need to bring in [TS]

01:30:50   threats of lawsuits or other things into [TS]

01:30:52   it I think you just need to look at the [TS]

01:30:53   the power dynamic of customers want the [TS]

01:30:55   app the app makes your phone more [TS]

01:30:57   valuable if your phone doesn't have the [TS]

01:30:59   app it's totally a PR war like you [TS]

01:31:01   imagine like uber no longer on Apple [TS]

01:31:03   phones and you know maybe that's not a [TS]

01:31:04   big deal because people will have all [TS]

01:31:06   the other terms but it but if even for [TS]

01:31:08   like a week they said [TS]

01:31:08   guess what Facebook no longer on Apple [TS]

01:31:10   phones that story would last like three [TS]

01:31:13   years people saying I was going to get [TS]

01:31:15   an iPhone but I heard they don't have [TS]

01:31:16   facebook three years ago I heard that [TS]

01:31:17   Facebook like that was just for two [TS]

01:31:19   weeks it's like well now too late it's [TS]

01:31:20   already out there got an Android phone [TS]

01:31:21   again so yeah Apple does not want that [TS]

01:31:25   to happen [TS]

01:31:26   and speaking of relationship between [TS]

01:31:27   Apple and important software companies [TS]

01:31:29   software companies at various times when [TS]

01:31:31   Apple has been not as rich and powerful [TS]

01:31:34   this is now even more had even more [TS]

01:31:37   influence over what Apple does the best [TS]

01:31:40   most recent example is Apple's entire [TS]

01:31:43   modern operating system plan to you know [TS]

01:31:45   get away from classic Mac OS to do [TS]

01:31:47   something to replace it with something [TS]

01:31:48   else was essentially squashed by [TS]

01:31:51   Microsoft and Adobe two companies saying [TS]

01:31:53   yeah we're not going to make apps for [TS]

01:31:54   that and the Apple said well this note [TS]

01:31:56   whatever plan we thought we had that we [TS]

01:31:59   thought was all awesome and we had a [TS]

01:32:00   cool codename for it that but it's you [TS]

01:32:03   know forget it because if it's apple and [TS]

01:32:05   adobe aren't on board and we can't [TS]

01:32:06   convince them there's no point in us [TS]

01:32:08   even doing this because a Mac that can't [TS]

01:32:11   run Microsoft or Adobe software is [TS]

01:32:12   pointless and so they didn't and they [TS]

01:32:15   scrapped that plan [TS]

01:32:16   the rapp C plan and said they did Mac OS [TS]

01:32:19   10 with carbon and that got those guys [TS]

01:32:21   on board and that's like one of the [TS]

01:32:24   biggest most important decisions Apple [TS]

01:32:26   ever made the life of the company at [TS]

01:32:28   stake and who essentially ended up being [TS]

01:32:30   you know having veto power over what [TS]

01:32:32   Apple does to third-party software [TS]

01:32:34   companies with really important [TS]

01:32:35   application and these days I feel like [TS]

01:32:37   Facebook into a Facebook and you know [TS]

01:32:40   Google /youtube and then a few other [TS]

01:32:42   people to a lesser degree have veto [TS]

01:32:45   power over a huge number of platforms [TS]

01:32:47   and there is you know Android I feel [TS]

01:32:49   like it's more power because if if you [TS]

01:32:51   can't put your application on Android [TS]

01:32:53   and that's 80% of the world's [TS]

01:32:54   smartphones that's the big problem and [TS]

01:32:56   then an apple Apple needs these [TS]

01:32:58   applications because they're a smaller [TS]

01:32:59   percentage and the whole point of their [TS]

01:33:00   phone is you get the best stuff and you [TS]

01:33:02   get it the soonest and if they take that [TS]

01:33:03   away that's a problem so I'm not [TS]

01:33:06   surprised at these sort of two people [TS]

01:33:08   yelling at each other and you know being [TS]

01:33:10   naughty and getting caught and going [TS]

01:33:11   around in circles I don't see any way [TS]

01:33:13   that's going to change unless the power [TS]

01:33:15   dynamic changes and in the meantime if [TS]

01:33:18   the power dynamic is not like that and [TS]

01:33:20   you are just marker with one application [TS]

01:33:22   you didn't have to play those games to [TS]

01:33:24   view they can just shut you down and [TS]

01:33:25   that's that's the way it is and makes [TS]

01:33:28   perfect sense and no sense getting upset [TS]

01:33:31   about the double standard just learn to [TS]

01:33:34   be smart and hide in the rocks if you're [TS]

01:33:36   a little mouse all right well the [TS]

01:33:41   asteroid comes you'll be the one to [TS]

01:33:42   survive and it turns out okay well not [TS]

01:33:45   you specifically probably you [TS]

01:33:46   specifically Mouse will be dead but [TS]

01:33:47   there'll be other mice to live [TS]

01:33:49   it'll be fine let's took a turn thanks [TS]

01:33:52   for our three sponsors this week [TS]

01:33:53   Squarespace Eero and fracture and we'll [TS]

01:33:57   see you next week now the show is over [TS]

01:34:03   they didn't even mean to begin cuz it [TS]

01:34:06   was accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

01:34:13   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:34:15   him [TS]

01:34:16   because it was accidental it was [TS]

01:34:19   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:34:23   notes at 80 P dot F M and if forensic [TS]

01:34:28   Twitter you can follow them at CAS II WA [TS]

01:34:34   L is s so that's Casey list and a are Co [TS]

01:34:38   AR m and T Marco Arment and I are they [TS]

01:34:45   see us a Syracuse [TS]

01:35:00   John you have made a long trip you have [TS]

01:35:04   gone on a grand adventure would you call [TS]

01:35:07   a tour yeah you could call it a grand [TS]

01:35:09   tour actually I would love to know John [TS]

01:35:12   what did you think of Britain so [TS]

01:35:14   unfortunately for you I came back from [TS]

01:35:17   the UK and did another podcast where we [TS]

01:35:20   talked about all the stuff that was last [TS]

01:35:22   night [TS]

01:35:22   so who got to you first you got scooped [TS]

01:35:26   you got scooped by Merlin Merlin did [TS]

01:35:28   rise right we did breakfast we talked [TS]

01:35:30   about travel stuff well fortunately we [TS]

01:35:32   can probably release faster than they [TS]

01:35:33   can yeah there you go see that that's [TS]

01:35:36   the spirit anyway what do you wanna know [TS]

01:35:38   I covered I can cover different stuff I [TS]

01:35:40   suppose okay so how was that was the [TS]

01:35:42   plane travel you went direct from Boston [TS]

01:35:44   to Heathrow yep it was fine it was there [TS]

01:35:46   we go got very lucky [TS]

01:35:47   I've been lucky on my flights recently [TS]

01:35:49   not really bumpy at all straight forward [TS]

01:35:51   I went British Airways and we didn't go [TS]

01:35:54   like the fancy class but we didn't go [TS]

01:35:56   like the cheapest one it's like whatever [TS]

01:35:57   one is in the middle as far as I can [TS]

01:35:59   tell it is exactly the same as the [TS]

01:36:01   cheapest seats except for you have [TS]

01:36:02   slightly more legroom which I appreciate [TS]

01:36:03   it because I get long legs but yeah it [TS]

01:36:07   was nice there was there was USB ports [TS]

01:36:09   in the back of the seats which I hadn't [TS]

01:36:11   seen before which is you know convenient [TS]

01:36:13   on the way back I think it's the first [TS]

01:36:15   time I've ever flown on a 747 did you [TS]

01:36:17   stare out the window for six hours [TS]

01:36:19   whatever took you to get there and back [TS]

01:36:20   that's what I do [TS]

01:36:21   oh my god so so your poor wife is just [TS]

01:36:24   sitting there basically doing your own [TS]

01:36:25   thing she's not suffering she she well [TS]

01:36:28   playing Sudoku and watching movies the [TS]

01:36:30   whole time time flew by on the way there [TS]

01:36:33   she's like I didn't even notice that six [TS]

01:36:35   hours just flew by she's obsessed with [TS]

01:36:36   sodoku lately so she just like if you [TS]

01:36:39   were if you were to take movies every [TS]

01:36:40   was like this person is just staring at [TS]

01:36:42   these numbers and George do that [TS]

01:36:44   occasionally she would move or twitch in [TS]

01:36:46   some way but mostly stare at the numbers [TS]

01:36:48   indeed indeed fair enough all right so [TS]

01:36:51   you traveled to Heathrow what were some [TS]

01:36:53   of the highlight of this what were your [TS]

01:36:55   favorite things that you participated in [TS]

01:36:58   probably even before we got there the [TS]

01:37:01   food I had on British Airways going to [TS]

01:37:04   London was the best airplane food I've [TS]

01:37:05   ever had with the possible exception of [TS]

01:37:08   Midwest expresses a fresh-baked [TS]

01:37:10   chocolate chip cookies which anyone who [TS]

01:37:12   even remembers what Midwest Express was [TS]

01:37:14   knows that that was a good peel and they [TS]

01:37:17   had metal silverware ever crying a lot [TS]

01:37:18   Midwest expressed r.i.p unless they're [TS]

01:37:22   still alive voce sorry but I haven't [TS]

01:37:24   flown them in years but yeah the bridge [TS]

01:37:26   you know everything's relative it's [TS]

01:37:28   airplane food right [TS]

01:37:29   but the airplane food on the way out was [TS]

01:37:32   like you know full English breakfast [TS]

01:37:34   thing but imagine like the airplane [TS]

01:37:36   version of that and it was passably [TS]

01:37:40   edible which is it watches the halibut [TS]

01:37:43   boy glue review especially the eggs you [TS]

01:37:46   know it eggs are like on planes like why [TS]

01:37:48   even bother like I expected them to just [TS]

01:37:50   be like a complete write-off but but I [TS]

01:37:51   ate them and on the way back it was a [TS]

01:37:55   bangers and mash type thing so first of [TS]

01:37:57   all they had like stereotypical British [TS]

01:37:59   type food and like I'm gonna say both of [TS]

01:38:02   them are better than WWC lunch easily [TS]

01:38:04   people they also cost you more than [TS]

01:38:05   $40.00 oh god they I don't know you want [TS]

01:38:09   to factor that how much it costs in [TS]

01:38:10   these plane tickets how much that was [TS]

01:38:11   paying for that meal but anyway there [TS]

01:38:12   was a lot of food there was variety and [TS]

01:38:14   every part of it was way better than I [TS]

01:38:17   thought it would be for airlines for [TS]

01:38:19   modern airline food like I don't know [TS]

01:38:21   what like old style like in the 60s [TS]

01:38:22   airline food was like real food but like [TS]

01:38:24   for all my life with the exception of [TS]

01:38:25   Midwest Express airline food has just [TS]

01:38:27   been grim and so this was you know [TS]

01:38:29   better than grim so I was happy about [TS]

01:38:32   that okay so you stare out the window [TS]

01:38:35   for six hours you don't play any Selda [TS]

01:38:37   or anything like that you're staring out [TS]

01:38:39   the window I can't I can't look at the [TS]

01:38:41   screens I can't watch a movie all I can [TS]

01:38:43   do is listen to podcast which is exactly [TS]

01:38:45   what I did I forgot to bring as I as I [TS]

01:38:47   tweeted I forgot to oh yeah I had my [TS]

01:38:49   lightning to a headphone adapter which I [TS]

01:38:51   only realized literally as I'm going to [TS]

01:38:53   what let me get all my stuff plugged in [TS]

01:38:55   now so what did you end up doing you use [TS]

01:38:58   something Bluetooth so oh well so I [TS]

01:39:01   figured out why I did it first of all [TS]

01:39:03   like this is not the first time I've [TS]

01:39:04   flown with my iPhone 7 I've had it since [TS]

01:39:06   like launch or whatever whenever I got [TS]

01:39:08   like it's not the first time I've done [TS]

01:39:09   I've flown with my iPhone 7 before and [TS]

01:39:10   I've remembered to bring the adapter I [TS]

01:39:12   think the problem is I fluid that I [TS]

01:39:14   brought the adapter because that you [TS]

01:39:16   worried like can you first get the thing [TS]

01:39:17   I've got [TS]

01:39:18   got a phone with no headphone jack I got [TS]

01:39:19   a remember I got to think about this is [TS]

01:39:20   a friend of mine you know I got to worry [TS]

01:39:22   about it right and then you do it and [TS]

01:39:24   you remember and you bring it you're [TS]

01:39:25   like your brains like well you solve [TS]

01:39:27   that problem now you never need to worry [TS]

01:39:28   about your phone again but you do [TS]

01:39:30   because every time you fly you have to [TS]

01:39:32   make sure the adapters in there so [TS]

01:39:33   anyway now I have two adapters one of [TS]

01:39:35   which is permanently in the case with [TS]

01:39:36   the Bose headphones with my bose [TS]

01:39:38   noise-canceling headphones so problem [TS]

01:39:40   solved there on the way out what I did [TS]

01:39:41   was I took my earbuds which I had with [TS]

01:39:43   me because I know I'm an over-packer [TS]

01:39:44   like my lightning year buds that came of [TS]

01:39:46   the phone I put them on my ears when I [TS]

01:39:48   put the noise cancelling headphones over [TS]

01:39:50   the year buds so I could have noise [TS]

01:39:51   cancelling and also a podcast right I'd [TS]

01:39:53   forgotten about that oh my god that is [TS]

01:39:56   absolutely preposterous but that [TS]

01:39:58   actually ended up working yeah totally [TS]

01:40:00   worked that's awesome [TS]

01:40:02   what did you guys do the first day so [TS]

01:40:04   you arrived what time of day did you [TS]

01:40:06   arrive we had like a morning flight so [TS]

01:40:09   we got up an ungodly hour got off like [TS]

01:40:12   4:00 a.m. to get our flight out and but [TS]

01:40:14   anyway by the time we get there it was [TS]

01:40:16   by the time I think got to the hotel it [TS]

01:40:17   was like dinnertime I think I don't know [TS]

01:40:20   exactly like you're so scrambled up for [TS]

01:40:22   the flying but anymore the whole day was [TS]

01:40:24   shot all day because you're going going [TS]

01:40:26   to go east what do we do for the various [TS]

01:40:28   days we did like all the touristy stuff [TS]

01:40:29   you can do in London you name some [TS]

01:40:30   touristy thing you can do in London [TS]

01:40:32   chances are we did it tell her yes all [TS]

01:40:35   right uh cheer with Churchill's war [TS]

01:40:38   rooms yes did you like that it's fine ah [TS]

01:40:42   Sean for Tina the British Museum they [TS]

01:40:49   saw Big Ben Parliament Westminster Abbey [TS]

01:40:52   Windsor Castle like we did all the [TS]

01:40:55   things we you know I had fish and chips [TS]

01:40:58   tell me how amazing the fish and chips [TS]

01:41:00   were oh I don't like fishing Josefina [TS]

01:41:02   would like oh god bless of America or [TS]

01:41:06   god save the queen whatever I like fish [TS]

01:41:08   I got but I got a I don't like fish [TS]

01:41:11   either but I like fish and chips now I [TS]

01:41:12   got a pretty good pub sandwich made with [TS]

01:41:15   sauce a lot of things in England have [TS]

01:41:17   sausage in them and I like sausage and [TS]

01:41:19   so I had them and they were good we ate [TS]

01:41:21   a lot of different restaurants and all [TS]

01:41:24   sorts of different kinds of food got to [TS]

01:41:26   see some some people that we both know [TS]

01:41:29   in London yeah that was fine [TS]

01:41:32   it was nice the kids weren't with us in [TS]

01:41:33   case this isn't cleared everybody we [TS]

01:41:35   sent the kids away to their grandparents [TS]

01:41:37   the Marco move could move up yep this is [TS]

01:41:42   the first time we'd taken a vacation [TS]

01:41:43   without our children since they were [TS]

01:41:45   born so it's first first vacation [TS]

01:41:46   without children first first vacation [TS]

01:41:49   that's been period that wasn't visiting [TS]

01:41:52   family since our honeymoon because it's [TS]

01:41:55   like we had our honeymoon which is just [TS]

01:41:56   like a vacation that not to visit family [TS]

01:41:58   was just to listen after that pretty [TS]

01:41:59   much every vacation we took was [TS]

01:42:00   somewhere to go you know what visit one [TS]

01:42:03   of our families to go somewhere with the [TS]

01:42:04   family and then the kids were born in [TS]

01:42:05   their vacation at the very least is with [TS]

01:42:07   them so so you haven't had a vacation [TS]

01:42:09   yeah well well this is this is kind of [TS]

01:42:12   this thing is supposed to be our 20th [TS]

01:42:13   wedding anniversary thing or 20th [TS]

01:42:14   wedding anniversaries this summer but we [TS]

01:42:16   like you know fitting it into the [TS]

01:42:17   schedule and when the kids off of school [TS]

01:42:19   and camp and all the other applications [TS]

01:42:21   is the time when it fit in basically so [TS]

01:42:24   so yeah it was nice it was it was a [TS]

01:42:28   pretty sight it was mostly relaxing but [TS]

01:42:31   we did so much walking it's like the [TS]

01:42:34   most the most exercise and walking I've [TS]

01:42:37   done in a long time like like I posted [TS]

01:42:40   the pedometer plus plus graphs of what [TS]

01:42:43   we did but like I'm on the second day we [TS]

01:42:45   did like over 30,000 steps in over 15 [TS]

01:42:48   miles and the average was over 10,000 [TS]

01:42:51   steps for each day or not not a ten-ton [TS]

01:42:54   sorry over over 10 miles for each day [TS]

01:42:57   and I had my watch and I was counting my [TS]

01:43:00   steps that way but I had my phone in [TS]

01:43:02   airplane mode so didn't have GPS my wife [TS]

01:43:04   had her series to watch and her phone [TS]

01:43:07   with an actual data plan on it so hers [TS]

01:43:08   is more accurate and her numbers are [TS]

01:43:10   even bigger than mine and we were all [TS]

01:43:11   going to the same places so we did a lot [TS]

01:43:14   of walking and I'm an old man the bottom [TS]

01:43:16   of my feet hurt poor baby something a [TS]

01:43:19   great vacation I just like I love at [TS]

01:43:22   first of all it's it's kind of [TS]

01:43:24   mind-blowing to me that you've taken [TS]

01:43:25   zero real vacations you know ever and [TS]

01:43:30   and it's it's I'm trying to picture like [TS]

01:43:34   are you are you able to suspend and I [TS]

01:43:39   say this in the most loving way possible [TS]

01:43:41   as a friend are you able to suspend [TS]

01:43:43   being you enough [TS]

01:43:45   to enjoy a vacation I am awesome at [TS]

01:43:48   vacations I am better than most people's [TS]

01:43:50   vacations I have no problem relaxing I'm [TS]

01:43:53   better here's what I'm better at my idea [TS]

01:43:55   of a vacation is relaxing and doing [TS]

01:43:57   nothing people who want to have a [TS]

01:43:58   vacation where it's like we got to go we [TS]

01:44:00   have a plan we got to see this we got to [TS]

01:44:01   see that I'm the opposite of that I [TS]

01:44:02   think those people are not good at [TS]

01:44:04   vacations where they like we have to do [TS]

01:44:06   and see every possible thing there is to [TS]

01:44:08   do and see and we have a schedule we got [TS]

01:44:10   to wake up early and like wake up early [TS]

01:44:11   that's not a vacation like my vacation [TS]

01:44:14   is where you do nothing in a beautiful [TS]

01:44:16   place that's my ideal vacation so [TS]

01:44:18   there's a compromise vacation where [TS]

01:44:20   we're going we're traveling somewhere I [TS]

01:44:22   don't like to travel but it's not that [TS]

01:44:23   big of a deal it's not that long of a [TS]

01:44:25   trip we're doing touristy things what [TS]

01:44:27   we're trying to do them at a relaxed [TS]

01:44:28   pace and I don't have to worry about [TS]

01:44:29   kids complaining the whole time so we [TS]

01:44:31   kind of do whatever the hell we want to [TS]

01:44:32   do and be like you know a lot of it was [TS]

01:44:35   like let me do let's walk because we'd [TS]

01:44:36   like go do this thing and then we just [TS]

01:44:37   say like well what else is near here and [TS]

01:44:39   we you know find some place to eat near [TS]

01:44:41   here then go do that thing and we just [TS]

01:44:42   like it's like a random walk through [TS]

01:44:43   London it's just all different places [TS]

01:44:45   and all Big Sur we went to went to the [TS]

01:44:46   Regent Street Apple Store we went to [TS]

01:44:49   like every Park in London we walk [TS]

01:44:50   through at some point or another and [TS]

01:44:53   it's just nice being able to just say [TS]

01:44:55   what do you want to do next I don't know [TS]

01:44:56   like I like not having a plan and just [TS]

01:44:58   saying like vaguely speaking there's [TS]

01:44:59   lots of interesting things we might want [TS]

01:45:00   to go see but let's just go wander to [TS]

01:45:02   them [TS]

01:45:02   my ideal vacations are the vacations we [TS]

01:45:05   take actually with our kids and my side [TS]

01:45:08   of the family on Long Island where you [TS]

01:45:09   just sit on a beach all day for a week [TS]

01:45:11   that's my ideal vacation but other [TS]

01:45:13   people don't like that right although [TS]

01:45:14   Marco is coming around to it but I had [TS]

01:45:16   indeed come around to it I think both of [TS]

01:45:18   us have because Marco and I during the [TS]

01:45:20   run of the show I think we're going [TS]

01:45:22   tit-for-tat on who hated the beach more [TS]

01:45:25   and I think that the both of us have [TS]

01:45:26   since been converted oh yeah it [TS]

01:45:28   basically happened over the last like [TS]

01:45:29   year and a half or so I've always loved [TS]

01:45:31   the beach and a lot of people hate it [TS]

01:45:33   not just because they might hit the [TS]

01:45:34   beach because like what are we even [TS]

01:45:35   doing here who wants to sit in the sand [TS]

01:45:37   all like what are we doing I don't [TS]

01:45:39   understand what we're doing it's just [TS]

01:45:40   like you're just relaxing in the [TS]

01:45:42   beautiful place even with the kids and [TS]

01:45:44   with the family the kids just go off and [TS]

01:45:45   run and do the thing they do it's a [TS]

01:45:47   little bit more stress of me like making [TS]

01:45:48   sure my children don't drown you know [TS]

01:45:50   when we go to the ocean but yeah but but [TS]

01:45:53   other than that that's that's my ideal [TS]

01:45:56   being in a familiar place with good [TS]

01:45:58   pizza and bagels [TS]

01:45:59   and no plan except to go to the beach [TS]

01:46:01   every day and then come home and have a [TS]

01:46:03   delicious dinner than eat briar mare [TS]

01:46:05   pies and just yeah but we've done that [TS]

01:46:09   every year for many many years I'm not [TS]

01:46:10   deprived that I get that all the time [TS]

01:46:12   right and so this was more of a vacation [TS]

01:46:13   of like more in a more traditional sense [TS]

01:46:16   and then we went to you know Disney with [TS]

01:46:17   the kids which was the let's do a big [TS]

01:46:20   family vacation with the kids and you [TS]

01:46:21   know just sacrifice whatever our [TS]

01:46:24   happiness may be you know we both love [TS]

01:46:25   Disney too right so it wasn't that big [TS]

01:46:27   deal but anyway gotta have the two kids [TS]

01:46:28   got to make sure they're happy the [TS]

01:46:29   vacation is mostly for them this one was [TS]

01:46:31   for us but mostly for my wife so yeah [TS]

01:46:35   we're not we're not big vacationers but [TS]

01:46:37   every once in a while we we try to do it [TS]

01:46:39   and I'm sure this will be the thin end [TS]

01:46:41   of the wedge of like let's go on [TS]

01:46:42   different vacation see like this [TS]

01:46:44   building up to like when it'll retired [TS]

01:46:46   and her kids are gone and she's dragging [TS]

01:46:47   me all over the globe so you know I'm [TS]

01:46:50   preparing for that was this your first [TS]

01:46:52   international travel I've been to Canada [TS]

01:46:54   as I count no not really [TS]

01:46:57   then to not just not just like Canada [TS]

01:46:59   like just over the border but I've been [TS]

01:47:01   to Newfoundland I've been to the [TS]

01:47:03   easternmost point in North America still [TS]

01:47:06   doesn't count I've been out on a boat [TS]

01:47:08   past the easternmost point in North [TS]

01:47:09   America next to an iceberg that's pretty [TS]

01:47:11   exotic hmm I do like in the chat room [TS]

01:47:16   listener see grin made an interesting [TS]

01:47:18   distinction he said doing all kinds of [TS]

01:47:21   stuff is travelling doing nothing is [TS]

01:47:25   vacationing I think that's a very very [TS]

01:47:28   good distinction what you what you do [TS]

01:47:31   and what we like to do now on the beach [TS]

01:47:32   is vacation where we used to do nothing [TS]

01:47:34   in a beautiful place as you said and [TS]

01:47:35   doing all kinds of stuff in a different [TS]

01:47:37   place that's traveling right traveling [TS]

01:47:39   is like you want to see as much as you [TS]

01:47:41   can see and so you are waking up early [TS]

01:47:44   and going and doing this and that all [TS]

01:47:45   day so I can't with the distinction well [TS]

01:47:48   you call Disneyland a vacation though [TS]

01:47:50   people say I'm going on a Disney [TS]

01:47:51   vacation and Disney is one of the main [TS]

01:47:53   place for people like oh gotta wake up [TS]

01:47:54   got to get in this line gotta do this [TS]

01:47:56   got to see all these things but it's [TS]

01:47:57   they still call it a vacation not [TS]

01:47:59   traveling is where are you going just in [TS]

01:48:00   Orlando at all time yeah so I have I [TS]

01:48:03   will say this I have never been to [TS]

01:48:05   Disney it is not the kind of thing that [TS]

01:48:07   I think I would enjoy however just from [TS]

01:48:10   the way other people describe it [TS]

01:48:13   I would never describe that as a [TS]

01:48:15   vacation it's more fun than you think it [TS]

01:48:18   is I mean you should you should go at [TS]

01:48:20   some point when Adam is like the right [TS]

01:48:22   age of like he's not going to be melting [TS]

01:48:24   down constantly but he's also not going [TS]

01:48:25   to be too old for it like find find that [TS]

01:48:27   age that is the right age for that and [TS]

01:48:29   just take one family trip there it is it [TS]

01:48:31   is more interesting and more fun than [TS]

01:48:33   you think it's going to be not going to [TS]

01:48:34   say that you're going to think it's the [TS]

01:48:35   most awesome place and you love it and [TS]

01:48:36   you would do it all the time but it's [TS]

01:48:38   not as it's not as bad as you think [TS]

01:48:40   it sounds like more of an event you know [TS]

01:48:42   it's like like like we just finished our [TS]

01:48:45   kids birthday was this past weekend and [TS]

01:48:47   so we we just finished like having a [TS]

01:48:49   large party and arranging all the [TS]

01:48:52   logistics and everything else and like [TS]

01:48:54   from from the way that I've heard [TS]

01:48:57   friends including both of you talked [TS]

01:48:59   about Disney vacations it sounds like [TS]

01:49:01   it's like hosting a party times a [TS]

01:49:04   thousand like all the stuff you have to [TS]

01:49:06   like do and play knows it's the opposite [TS]

01:49:09   it's the opposite of that you don't have [TS]

01:49:11   to worry about all that crap Disney yep [TS]

01:49:13   takes care like it's it's it's like like [TS]

01:49:16   you're like Adams party was for Adam [TS]

01:49:18   that's what Disney is trying to be for [TS]

01:49:20   you you're Adam in this scenario and [TS]

01:49:22   Disney is you and TIFF they are taking [TS]

01:49:26   care of all the crap and making sure [TS]

01:49:28   your needs are met and just like you [TS]

01:49:29   just show up me like ah where's my cake [TS]

01:49:31   where's my presents like that's Disney [TS]

01:49:34   that's that's what the time yeah let me [TS]

01:49:35   let me build on this so I have been [TS]

01:49:37   begging to talk about well that's not [TS]

01:49:39   fair I have wanted to talk about Disney [TS]

01:49:40   on the show for a long time but so [TS]

01:49:42   Disney is so intent on you having a good [TS]

01:49:45   time and not having to worry about [TS]

01:49:47   anything that if you stay on campus or [TS]

01:49:52   in the parks I forget the technical term [TS]

01:49:53   that Disney uses for it but if you stay [TS]

01:49:55   at a hotel that Disney owns that's on [TS]

01:49:57   the Disney product on property I guess [TS]

01:49:59   yeah I think it is on property but [TS]

01:50:00   anyway is if you stay on property if you [TS]

01:50:03   book you know with any amount of advance [TS]

01:50:06   notice and you're flying into the [TS]

01:50:08   Orlando Airport you can do this thing [TS]

01:50:10   called magical express and what happens [TS]

01:50:12   is when you go to JFK or wherever you [TS]

01:50:14   would go Marco you deposit your checked [TS]

01:50:16   bags they have a special Disney tag on [TS]

01:50:18   them when you arrive at the Orlando or [TS]

01:50:21   Airport you go to where the magical [TS]

01:50:24   express buses are you tell them what [TS]

01:50:26   hotel [TS]

01:50:26   staying at you board a bus you do not go [TS]

01:50:29   to baggage claim you go to your hotel [TS]

01:50:31   you check in you presumably get your [TS]

01:50:34   room unless silly early in the morning [TS]

01:50:36   you get your park tickets and then you [TS]

01:50:38   freshen up and go to the park your bags [TS]

01:50:40   are still nowhere to be found you go to [TS]

01:50:42   the park you do amazing things have a [TS]

01:50:46   tremendous time have a lot of fun [TS]

01:50:48   especially you Marco because you would [TS]

01:50:49   go at the bananas time of year when [TS]

01:50:51   nobody else is there [TS]

01:50:52   well maybe not once he gets in school [TS]

01:50:54   but in terms of like job e jobs it's not [TS]

01:50:56   a problem he's in school yeah I forgot [TS]

01:50:58   about that but anyway but the point [TS]

01:51:00   being you go and you have fun and then [TS]

01:51:02   when you return to your room poof like [TS]

01:51:04   magic there's your bags all collected [TS]

01:51:07   all the way from the Orlando Airport and [TS]

01:51:09   place conveniently in your room just for [TS]

01:51:11   you that's how serious they are about [TS]

01:51:13   you not having to worry about stuff now [TS]

01:51:15   with that said I hope you worried the [TS]

01:51:17   entire time whether my bag was actually [TS]

01:51:19   going to be there when I got there that [TS]

01:51:21   doesn't work for control freaks but [TS]

01:51:23   there's something for everybody and that [TS]

01:51:25   like if that's not the experience you [TS]

01:51:26   want to have you don't have to like just [TS]

01:51:28   in general like everything about the [TS]

01:51:29   park is set up to make your life easier [TS]

01:51:32   and they understand by now what is [TS]

01:51:34   annoying about being in a hot place with [TS]

01:51:36   a kid who might be cranky and you know [TS]

01:51:38   what maybe what makes rides like [TS]

01:51:40   everything about it is nice looking and [TS]

01:51:42   fun and clean and cheery and you know [TS]

01:51:44   it's all artificial and it's all park [TS]

01:51:46   like I'm not saying it's you know the [TS]

01:51:47   beach is better so I'm getting that but [TS]

01:51:49   you know going in this is what they're [TS]

01:51:51   going to be trying to be doing you think [TS]

01:51:53   it's not going to work on me and it's [TS]

01:51:54   just going to be miserable and it still [TS]

01:51:55   just kind of works on you yep so so the [TS]

01:51:58   the impression that I have gotten from [TS]

01:52:00   listening to you guys and Merlin talk [TS]

01:52:04   about Disney vacations [TS]

01:52:06   it's the the degree of planning and [TS]

01:52:11   required expertise about the way that [TS]

01:52:14   these things should be done is that [TS]

01:52:15   mostly just you guys being you guys and [TS]

01:52:17   not the way it actually is it's half and [TS]

01:52:20   half yeah it's kind of like there's a [TS]

01:52:22   certain personality type who says that [TS]

01:52:24   like like it's you're the that person [TS]

01:52:26   who doesn't want to be worrying about [TS]

01:52:27   where your bag is if you're also have a [TS]

01:52:29   person who wants to go Disney and be [TS]

01:52:31   like I don't want to go to Disney not [TS]

01:52:32   get to do all the super duper special [TS]

01:52:34   things that I want to do like then yeah [TS]

01:52:36   you got to plan ahead for it and do all [TS]

01:52:37   this stuff but if you just go to Disney [TS]

01:52:38   you're like whatever I'll just [TS]

01:52:40   do what this is walk around and see [TS]

01:52:42   something that's interesting that has a [TS]

01:52:43   short line and especially if your kid [TS]

01:52:44   doesn't know enough to know like I want [TS]

01:52:46   to go on X and you know if they just [TS]

01:52:47   like wandering around starry-eyed just [TS]

01:52:49   like you it'll work out fine you are [TS]

01:52:52   enough of a planner that I think you [TS]

01:52:54   would do it a little bit ahead of time [TS]

01:52:55   luckily there is an entire industry of [TS]

01:52:57   people whose only job is to plan your [TS]

01:52:59   Disney vacation for you that sounds [TS]

01:53:01   awful [TS]

01:53:02   Oh God that would be so much fun are you [TS]

01:53:04   kidding it's another situation where you [TS]

01:53:05   can throw throw a little bit of money at [TS]

01:53:07   a person and they will just do [TS]

01:53:09   everything for you and tell you where to [TS]

01:53:11   go and what to do and it's not that much [TS]

01:53:13   money especially once you see how much [TS]

01:53:14   the bill for everything at Disney is in [TS]

01:53:15   the grand scheme of things it's not that [TS]

01:53:17   much money I think it's another example [TS]

01:53:19   of like it like you being the atom and [TS]

01:53:22   just having these you know other people [TS]

01:53:24   take care of everything for you [TS]

01:53:25   everything in Disney it's basically like [TS]

01:53:27   being rich for poor people [TS]

01:53:29   that's Disney for you right because like [TS]

01:53:31   for the rich people like everything take [TS]

01:53:32   everyone takes care of your every need [TS]

01:53:34   and you just wake up and people have [TS]

01:53:36   your clothes ready for you and cars [TS]

01:53:38   whisk you from place to place and [TS]

01:53:39   private jets and helicopters and your [TS]

01:53:41   food is served to you and just [TS]

01:53:42   everything is you know you don't I mean [TS]

01:53:43   no one's going to get that experience [TS]

01:53:45   less you have a tremendous amount of [TS]

01:53:47   money like billions billions of dollars [TS]

01:53:48   right and also you know are the type of [TS]

01:53:51   person who can tolerate living like that [TS]

01:53:53   Disney is like you don't have that much [TS]

01:53:55   money but if you have a little bit more [TS]

01:53:58   money to you know if you have enough [TS]

01:54:00   money to throw what seems like a lot [TS]

01:54:03   towards us we will try to give you the [TS]

01:54:07   you know three degrees of magnitude less [TS]

01:54:10   severe incarnation of that like if [TS]

01:54:13   you're never going to go to a hotel [TS]

01:54:14   where they treat you where they're like [TS]

01:54:15   oh okay [TS]

01:54:16   you know they're there at your beck and [TS]

01:54:17   call if you're never going to be able to [TS]

01:54:19   afford that hotel you can still go to [TS]

01:54:20   Disney where reasonably nice people will [TS]

01:54:23   try to be nice to you and like that's [TS]

01:54:25   it's like well this is closest I'm going [TS]

01:54:27   to get and and it's nice and everything [TS]

01:54:30   here is nice and everyone here is trying [TS]

01:54:31   to be nice to me I mean I think one [TS]

01:54:34   reconcilable differences I had an [TS]

01:54:35   episode about the sustainability of [TS]

01:54:37   Disneyland it was a long time ago I did [TS]

01:54:40   some podcasts like that is the thing [TS]

01:54:42   where you see like can can people keep [TS]

01:54:44   us up how can employees actually be nice [TS]

01:54:45   for that long a period of time can you [TS]

01:54:47   actually get that many people to be nice [TS]

01:54:48   to to of not just American tourists for [TS]

01:54:51   that long like is it even is it [TS]

01:54:53   sustainable like sure [TS]

01:54:54   the cracks will show and I'm sure it is [TS]

01:54:56   not now like it was in its heyday but it [TS]

01:54:58   is still nicer than you will be treated [TS]

01:55:01   at most places that are not Disneyland [TS]

01:55:02   for the same amount of money yeah and in [TS]

01:55:05   the thing that is with regard to [TS]

01:55:06   planning I think John hit the nail on [TS]

01:55:08   the head that it's kind of it depends on [TS]

01:55:10   what kind of person you are so I am [TS]

01:55:11   super type-a and I want to plan [TS]

01:55:14   everything down to the second and if I [TS]

01:55:15   want to I can do it and and so I can get [TS]

01:55:18   fast passes way in advance so I can [TS]

01:55:20   figure out what rides I'm gonna ride [TS]

01:55:22   which day at what time which if you're [TS]

01:55:24   not a planner to book your restaurant [TS]

01:55:26   six months in advance yep and I can book [TS]

01:55:28   my restaurant six months in advance [TS]

01:55:29   literally six months in advance and if [TS]

01:55:30   you're not a planner that sounds like [TS]

01:55:32   work and it sounds real sense to the [TS]

01:55:34   fact the met in the fact the matter is [TS]

01:55:35   you don't have to do those things if [TS]

01:55:37   you're a triple-a member which we have [TS]

01:55:39   been for forever and it's like a hundred [TS]

01:55:41   bucks a year or something like that they [TS]

01:55:42   have travel agents that's the only [TS]

01:55:44   travel agent I've ever used for way [TS]

01:55:45   first of all they're still triple-a [TS]

01:55:47   second of all they're still travel [TS]

01:55:48   agents yeah yeah absolutely and you can [TS]

01:55:51   go to a triple-a travel agent in the in [TS]

01:55:52   say to them look I've never been to [TS]

01:55:54   Disney you find them like behind like [TS]

01:55:56   the record player I guess maybe you yeah [TS]

01:55:58   yeah that I've never had a problem [TS]

01:56:00   finding a travel agent but anyway oh my [TS]

01:56:01   god [TS]

01:56:02   so I'm really being serious though in [TS]

01:56:04   and you can go to a triple-a agent and [TS]

01:56:06   say look I've never been we've never [TS]

01:56:08   been to Disney this is these are the two [TS]

01:56:10   things we want to do we generally like [TS]

01:56:13   to take it easy and not have like that [TS]

01:56:15   many booked activities can you just [TS]

01:56:18   figure out a vague arrangement of things [TS]

01:56:21   to do for us and they will make that [TS]

01:56:22   happen I mean he'll I would do it for [TS]

01:56:24   you just because I think this stuff is [TS]

01:56:25   fun but the point is though Jon fun oh [TS]

01:56:29   my god I mean what in the whatever it is [TS]

01:56:34   that you like about Vegas if you if you [TS]

01:56:37   and TIFF were to go to Vegas by [TS]

01:56:38   yourselves so you don't have the social [TS]

01:56:40   aspect of your friends being there [TS]

01:56:42   whatever it is you like about that [TS]

01:56:45   accepting the gambling and maybe the [TS]

01:56:48   booze cuz booze is less of a priority [TS]

01:56:49   it's like that but not as nice and [TS]

01:56:51   without the sleaze and the smoke it's it [TS]

01:56:54   with certainly without the Slee [TS]

01:56:55   certainly without the smoke [TS]

01:56:56   I would debate whether or not it says [TS]

01:56:58   nice but you're probably have much much [TS]

01:57:00   more humidity oh that's true [TS]

01:57:02   less heat more humidity you Marco are [TS]

01:57:05   probably doing a different kind of Vegas [TS]

01:57:06   and I would do and so [TS]

01:57:07   probably Disney probably would be less [TS]

01:57:09   nice as compared to the Vegas I've done [TS]

01:57:10   it's considerably more nice but in any [TS]

01:57:13   case it's it's a similar thing and in [TS]

01:57:15   you if you were willing to pony up the [TS]

01:57:17   money for a Disney meal plan upfront you [TS]

01:57:19   can eat do two or three meals a day and [TS]

01:57:22   not have to worry about what they cost [TS]

01:57:23   you have to worry about you know where [TS]

01:57:25   you go because they all take the meal [TS]

01:57:27   plan basically so it's it is a [TS]

01:57:30   phenomenally fun time and I genuinely [TS]

01:57:33   cannot wait to take Declan there because [TS]

01:57:36   seeing it through his eyes I think would [TS]

01:57:37   be worth the price of admission which is [TS]

01:57:39   tremendous yeah that's that's a big [TS]

01:57:41   thing about it like you would go there [TS]

01:57:42   and like no matter how much you like it [TS]

01:57:44   you would most it would be a vacation [TS]

01:57:45   for Adam which is why you're playing it [TS]

01:57:47   based around what age you think he's [TS]

01:57:48   most able to enjoy to its fullest and [TS]

01:57:51   kids kids love it kids love Disneyland [TS]

01:57:52   right even if your kid is not [TS]

01:57:54   indoctrinated Izzi world and doesn't [TS]

01:57:55   know all the characters just everything [TS]

01:57:57   there is fun for kids of the right age [TS]

01:57:59   and so you will enjoy the vacation [TS]

01:58:01   because you will see how much he is [TS]

01:58:02   enjoying himself even if you and they [TS]

01:58:04   will make you enjoy it more like I think [TS]

01:58:06   one of the most fun things we did on our [TS]

01:58:08   vacation if you'd asked me before to [TS]

01:58:09   predict what that might be I would not [TS]

01:58:11   have called it the way I did was we had [TS]

01:58:14   dinner in the big Disney Castle you know [TS]

01:58:16   the big one you see in the you know it [TS]

01:58:18   through the big Disney Castle you know [TS]

01:58:20   whatever it's got like gray one that's [TS]

01:58:21   in like the intro to the movies [TS]

01:58:22   Cinderella's castle yeah yeah yeah it's [TS]

01:58:25   a little bit you know but the real-life [TS]

01:58:27   one and it's a restaurant in there where [TS]

01:58:28   you could have dinner and I don't [TS]

01:58:30   remember if I talked about this on [TS]

01:58:33   rectifier here that I have a giant thing [TS]

01:58:35   where I complain about the food at [TS]

01:58:36   Disney at some point no it's now I want [TS]

01:58:39   to know yeah there's a lot of those like [TS]

01:58:41   what what I'm getting at is I didn't [TS]

01:58:43   enjoy it because of the food I enjoyed [TS]

01:58:45   it because it's not you know it's first [TS]

01:58:47   of all eating inside the actual real [TS]

01:58:49   Disney Castle is cool I grew up my whole [TS]

01:58:51   I've seen the Disney Castle and pictures [TS]

01:58:53   of it and you know the the logo of the [TS]

01:58:55   beginning movies a lot of stuff like in [TS]

01:58:56   Walt Disney and the whole thing like so [TS]

01:58:58   the Disney Castle has some meaning for [TS]

01:59:00   me maybe doesn't for you but it for me [TS]

01:59:01   it does right umm and I'm eating inside [TS]

01:59:04   it and that's cool and second that like [TS]

01:59:06   many of the places where you can book [TS]

01:59:08   dinners there they have like people [TS]

01:59:09   playing the Disney characters coming [TS]

01:59:11   around from tables is able to you know [TS]

01:59:12   say hi to your kids and stuff and my son [TS]

01:59:16   was a little old throw it in a little [TS]

01:59:17   shy my daughter was super into it she [TS]

01:59:19   likes seeing you know [TS]

01:59:21   Esmond and belle and thence know what [TS]

01:59:22   she knew who these characters she'd seen [TS]

01:59:24   the movies or people dressed as them and [TS]

01:59:26   she had a blast she got to have meal and [TS]

01:59:29   got to pick off or pick the different [TS]

01:59:31   foods that she wanted to have sounded [TS]

01:59:33   fancy to her and the people come around [TS]

01:59:35   to the table and you know she luckily I [TS]

01:59:37   have one at least one of my kids is not [TS]

01:59:38   terrified and shy of like characters [TS]

01:59:40   that come around at they'll and she had [TS]

01:59:42   a blast and I had fun because she had [TS]

01:59:44   fun and we were in Disney Castle and [TS]

01:59:45   that was that was a good memory that I [TS]

01:59:48   would not have predicted would have been [TS]

01:59:51   as much wrong we went there with no kids [TS]

01:59:52   probably not but we after he put this [TS]

01:59:54   way after we came back from a Disney [TS]

01:59:55   vacation my wife and I were talking [TS]

01:59:57   about maybe we would go on Ave [TS]

01:59:57   about maybe we would go on Ave [TS]

02:00:00   occasion without the kids there because [TS]

02:00:01   in some respects you have fun [TS]

02:00:03   yeah fron with the kids but in other [TS]

02:00:04   respects you realize there you're [TS]

02:00:06   limited in what you can do because kids [TS]

02:00:07   have you know they run down and [TS]

02:00:09   eventually you know that adults are able [TS]

02:00:12   to do things that may borrow the kids or [TS]

02:00:16   sustain like but you know every every [TS]

02:00:18   night we were there we were like in bed [TS]

02:00:20   by the time fireworks on which by the [TS]

02:00:22   way we saw fireworks outside our about [TS]

02:00:23   balcony literally every single night and [TS]

02:00:25   it never got old they weren't our [TS]

02:00:28   fireworks they were actually distant [TS]

02:00:29   fireworks or whatever but but anyway if [TS]

02:00:31   you're there and is adult you can go out [TS]

02:00:32   at night and see the fire or you stole [TS]

02:00:34   someone else's fireworks [TS]

02:00:35   is that like pirating the fireworks well [TS]

02:00:38   there's plenty of it's it's just [TS]

02:00:39   interests infringement because the [TS]

02:00:40   fireworks still exist over there no we [TS]

02:00:42   see them right we're not actually taking [TS]

02:00:44   them anyway we had a good time and we [TS]

02:00:47   were in thinking about like we should [TS]

02:00:48   come back ourselves because we could [TS]

02:00:49   have we could have even more fun with [TS]