The Accidental Tech Podcast

220: Executive Box Lunch


00:00:00   would any executive who had other [TS]

00:00:02   options ever choose to eat a box lunch [TS]

00:00:04   like well it's like anything that's [TS]

00:00:06   executive so the name is always two [TS]

00:00:08   levels of status up from the thing [TS]

00:00:10   otherwise it wouldn't be a marketing [TS]

00:00:11   name you know [TS]

00:00:12   so executives would never have an [TS]

00:00:14   executive box launch 17-year olds don't [TS]

00:00:16   read Seventeen magazine and on and on [TS]

00:00:18   aspirational I don't think executives [TS]

00:00:21   have any form of lunch that comes in a [TS]

00:00:23   box they should call it executives sack [TS]

00:00:26   lunch like there there's literally there [TS]

00:00:30   is nothing they could put in that box [TS]

00:00:32   that would make that name seem [TS]

00:00:33   reasonable just filled with caviar sack [TS]

00:00:37   lunch the famous movie from Seinfeld [TS]

00:00:40   to begin with follow up today friend of [TS]

00:00:43   the show Daniel jacket has spent what [TS]

00:00:46   seemed to be a surprising amount of time [TS]

00:00:47   doing research on Mosconi lunches and [TS]

00:00:49   I'm glad that Daniel did it so we don't [TS]

00:00:51   have to he has looked up some [TS]

00:00:53   information about the Mosconi box [TS]

00:00:55   lunches we'll put a link in the show [TS]

00:00:57   notes there's a few highlights that I [TS]

00:01:00   wanted to call everyone's attention to [TS]

00:01:02   the quote executive box lunch quote is [TS]

00:01:08   $39.25 in the year 2017 according to [TS]

00:01:11   Daniel I love so much that this is [TS]

00:01:13   called the executive box yes the [TS]

00:01:16   executive box lunch I am not kidding I [TS]

00:01:19   mean in all fairness Craig federighi was [TS]

00:01:21   allegedly eating one of these things [TS]

00:01:23   backstage before talk show live and he [TS]

00:01:24   is an executive and so therefore I guess [TS]

00:01:28   that's aptly named but I tell you one [TS]

00:01:31   thing when all of us are getting it in [TS]

00:01:32   the big dining hall I sure don't feel [TS]

00:01:34   like an executive no seems like what [TS]

00:01:36   well it's not keep going case it because [TS]

00:01:37   it's not $39.00 does not include all all [TS]

00:01:40   the pricing and options included in this [TS]

00:01:42   special Porsha lunch if you want formats [TS]

00:01:45   and all four wheels and also a [TS]

00:01:47   transmission it cost more yes so [TS]

00:01:49   continuing on this is the description of [TS]

00:01:52   the executive box launch which Daniel [TS]

00:01:53   notes it's what he remembers from [TS]

00:01:55   dub-dub in and it sounds the same to me [TS]

00:01:57   so the description is as follows for [TS]

00:01:58   compartment includes compostable service [TS]

00:02:01   because California 25 guest minimum [TS]

00:02:03   sandwich wrapper entree salad includes a [TS]

00:02:06   choice of side salad dessert and fruit [TS]

00:02:08   to accompany your box lunches we suggest [TS]

00:02:10   adding assorted soft drinks and bottled [TS]

00:02:12   water okay so let's talk about so [TS]

00:02:14   drink some bottled water soft drinks of [TS]

00:02:15   water are not included a 22% service fee [TS]

00:02:18   as well as sales tax which is almost 10% [TS]

00:02:20   are also added to the price so that $39 [TS]

00:02:23   and 25 cents box box lunch comes out to [TS]

00:02:25   around $52 and you haven't had anything [TS]

00:02:29   to drink yet your and this is this is [TS]

00:02:31   Daniel writing want to really lose your [TS]

00:02:33   lunch [TS]

00:02:33   each bottled water is $5.25 coming to [TS]

00:02:37   $7.00 after service and taxes and this [TS]

00:02:40   is again still Daniel and Markos long [TS]

00:02:42   lost strawberry Seamonsters add Walla [TS]

00:02:43   which is probably classified as assorted [TS]

00:02:46   juices would set apple back an [TS]

00:02:48   additional eight dollars a bottle add it [TS]

00:02:50   all up and it's not hard to imagine the [TS]

00:02:51   meals and snacks are coming to $100 a [TS]

00:02:53   day or $500 a week per person nearly a [TS]

00:02:57   third of the $1600 WWDC admission fee [TS]

00:03:01   likely pays for food are you kidding me [TS]

00:03:07   with this garbage moving on I don't know [TS]

00:03:10   how the people who do it in San Jose but [TS]

00:03:13   how their box lunches compare but the [TS]

00:03:16   good news is the quote gourmet box lunch [TS]

00:03:18   from the caterers in San Jose comes in [TS]

00:03:21   at only $22 middle mineral waters soft [TS]

00:03:24   drinks juices in bottled water are a [TS]

00:03:25   mere four dollars and fifty cents each [TS]

00:03:27   so a considerable savings once they move [TS]

00:03:30   to San Jose on lunches alone how can you [TS]

00:03:33   spend one spend $500 a week on those [TS]

00:03:37   lunches like I was sitting here mostly [TS]

00:03:39   defending them the last couple episodes [TS]

00:03:41   they're not that bad you know they're [TS]

00:03:42   passable they work not at $500 for the [TS]

00:03:45   week are you friggin kidding me with [TS]

00:03:47   this insanity no no no hard pass no so [TS]

00:03:51   if they drop the price of the tickets by [TS]

00:03:52   $500 like this back to the people and we [TS]

00:03:57   all had to leave the building and find [TS]

00:03:59   someplace else to eat and to come back [TS]

00:04:01   I'm actually not sure that that would be [TS]

00:04:04   better for the conference you're like oh [TS]

00:04:06   just give me that 500 bucks I could [TS]

00:04:07   spend that in San Francisco but then you [TS]

00:04:08   gotta go find someplace to eat and I'm [TS]

00:04:11   not sure the eateries that you can get [TS]

00:04:14   to and back to the conference center in [TS]

00:04:16   time to get the after lunch sessions can [TS]

00:04:19   support that many people or are any [TS]

00:04:21   better so oh no they're better but they [TS]

00:04:24   probably can't support the people you're [TS]

00:04:25   probably right about that but they are [TS]

00:04:27   definitely [TS]

00:04:27   better I don't know I like a very [TS]

00:04:29   depends like you can go to the or [TS]

00:04:31   whatever that little mall thing it's [TS]

00:04:33   over there and I mean give me the mall [TS]

00:04:35   food court is better than the but is [TS]

00:04:37   better but you gotta wait in these long [TS]

00:04:39   lines and then you get your thing when [TS]

00:04:41   you gotta fight somebody then you get [TS]

00:04:42   back and that's like the closest [TS]

00:04:43   possible choice I'm I'm wondering I [TS]

00:04:47   would actually mostly be willing to pay [TS]

00:04:48   for the convenience of not having to [TS]

00:04:51   leave the the conference center while [TS]

00:04:54   eating lunches that I don't really like [TS]

00:04:56   because that convenience is what I mean [TS]

00:04:58   and obviously the ideal choice would be [TS]

00:05:00   to be able to get from someplace else [TS]

00:05:01   but as Daniel points out that is in [TS]

00:05:03   their rules you can't get food many [TS]

00:05:05   files in case it wasn't clear yeah there [TS]

00:05:07   is no choice Apple can't say oh we're [TS]

00:05:08   just gonna we're going to bring in you [TS]

00:05:10   know someone else Decatur nope not not [TS]

00:05:12   even an option it's just insanity to me [TS]

00:05:14   like how they can get fleeced that badly [TS]

00:05:18   it's not apples fault it's just the way [TS]

00:05:21   of the world but oh my goodness it is [TS]

00:05:23   just barbaric that that's the answer [TS]

00:05:26   well the way of the world in Apple Apple [TS]

00:05:28   world is like if Apple this bothered [TS]

00:05:30   Apple all that much just by Moscone like [TS]

00:05:34   you I saw it tweet as I was catching up [TS]

00:05:38   on my far behind in Twitter someone [TS]

00:05:40   saying that uh with its cash Apple could [TS]

00:05:44   buy all of the the Major League Baseball [TS]

00:05:46   NFL and NHL teams and still have a [TS]

00:05:48   hundred billion dollars left over is so [TS]

00:05:51   crazy now and then somebody well [TS]

00:05:53   actually that person and was like well [TS]

00:05:55   actually that doesn't account for taxes [TS]

00:05:57   but still the point stands like it's [TS]

00:06:00   preposterous [TS]

00:06:02   alright let's talk about a next iPhone [TS]

00:06:03   rumors we talked to the past that there [TS]

00:06:07   may be a touch ID bottom a button on the [TS]

00:06:09   back of the phone which some people [TS]

00:06:12   think is the end of times a lot of [TS]

00:06:14   people like myself think man whatever [TS]

00:06:16   but somebody a couple people actually [TS]

00:06:18   pointed out well what does this mean for [TS]

00:06:20   the home button then because a home [TS]

00:06:23   button on the back does not seem good so [TS]

00:06:26   how does that work and I don't know is [TS]

00:06:30   the answer but I would guess that there [TS]

00:06:32   is some sort of home button even a foe [TS]

00:06:35   home button on the chin of the front of [TS]

00:06:38   the phone I think that's what they've [TS]

00:06:40   probably started [TS]

00:06:41   the path of which with the immobile or [TS]

00:06:44   non movable whatever the word I'm [TS]

00:06:45   looking for is home button on the iPhone [TS]

00:06:47   7 and maybe the whole thing becomes a [TS]

00:06:50   home button I'm not really sure but it's [TS]

00:06:52   certainly an interesting point I hadn't [TS]

00:06:53   considered that you know today touch ID [TS]

00:06:55   and home button are giel kind of [TS]

00:06:57   co-located but in the future maybe they [TS]

00:06:59   won't be so John what do you think about [TS]

00:07:00   this yeah I think they they will be [TS]

00:07:03   separate because it is more awkward to [TS]

00:07:06   press a button on the back of the phone [TS]

00:07:08   even a fake like non button I mean they [TS]

00:07:10   can have it there in addition I suppose [TS]

00:07:12   who's again it doesn't move it's not as [TS]

00:07:13   if they they have to make room for some [TS]

00:07:15   kind of mechanism and it's already going [TS]

00:07:17   to be this little cutout area but I [TS]

00:07:19   think they will continue to have a helm [TS]

00:07:22   button on the front of the phone now [TS]

00:07:23   whether that home button is virtual kind [TS]

00:07:25   of like the touch bar where it's just a [TS]

00:07:26   bottom section of the screen or [TS]

00:07:28   something like that there's lots of Bend [TS]

00:07:29   lots of rumors in the pass 11 and [TS]

00:07:31   recently about how the touch bar [TS]

00:07:33   technology of having this little [TS]

00:07:35   separate accessory screen controlled by [TS]

00:07:38   the OS and you know accessible perhaps [TS]

00:07:40   accessible to applications through an [TS]

00:07:42   API kind of like all you know the [TS]

00:07:43   Android soft buttons and stuff like that [TS]

00:07:45   might be a thing that would appear on a [TS]

00:07:47   phone but even if that is doesn't exist [TS]

00:07:50   at all the idea of there being a that [TS]

00:07:55   you could squeeze the bottom part of [TS]

00:07:56   your phone to go home like whether you [TS]

00:07:58   can want to consider that a button and [TS]

00:08:00   especially if it's completely embedded [TS]

00:08:01   in the screen and there is no it's just [TS]

00:08:03   a flat featureless piece of glass with [TS]

00:08:04   no little cut out a circle or whatever [TS]

00:08:06   we're still going to call that the home [TS]

00:08:07   button and I'm thinking that they're not [TS]

00:08:09   going to get rid of that no matter where [TS]

00:08:10   the touch woody Sentra goes so it's [TS]

00:08:12   basically a divorce of home button and [TS]

00:08:14   touch ID where the home button can stay [TS]

00:08:15   on the front but because of the because [TS]

00:08:18   of the way it's done in the edge to edge [TS]

00:08:19   screen and everything the touch ID [TS]

00:08:21   sensor goes on the back and we just [TS]

00:08:23   squeeze the bottom of our phones and I [TS]

00:08:25   think I would mostly be okay with that [TS]

00:08:27   too like an up to see have to try it for [TS]

00:08:29   a while to see if I miss the little [TS]

00:08:31   indented circle a lot of listeners wrote [TS]

00:08:34   in to express love for the little [TS]

00:08:36   indented circle as a way to feel like [TS]

00:08:38   which end of your phone is up or like [TS]

00:08:40   exactly where you have to squeeze but if [TS]

00:08:42   you can squeeze anywhere along the [TS]

00:08:43   bottom edge of the phone I guess then [TS]

00:08:45   your only problem is if you have your [TS]

00:08:46   thing upside down but I suppose you have [TS]

00:08:47   the Lightning port to check whether [TS]

00:08:50   that's the case anyway [TS]

00:08:52   it's pretty weird that [TS]

00:08:54   all of these rumors about the next phone [TS]

00:08:57   surround like actual important physical [TS]

00:09:02   changes to the exterior of the phone [TS]

00:09:05   because all the past phones including [TS]

00:09:08   like this you know six and seven [TS]

00:09:09   generations where it's kind of the same [TS]

00:09:11   on the outside had been about like what [TS]

00:09:13   does it look like and what are the [TS]

00:09:14   materials but the design of it's a you [TS]

00:09:19   know a rectangle with a circle button on [TS]

00:09:21   the bottom that you press in to go home [TS]

00:09:23   and I guess the addition of touch ID [TS]

00:09:24   have been so constant this is the first [TS]

00:09:27   phone that's like that the story and [TS]

00:09:29   this phone is it maybe differently [TS]

00:09:31   shaped differently proportioned and [TS]

00:09:32   functionality on it may be moving around [TS]

00:09:34   in ways that has never moved around [TS]

00:09:36   before so that's that's kind of exciting [TS]

00:09:38   and you know kind of also a risky and [TS]

00:09:42   that like they have a model that works [TS]

00:09:44   here with this rectangle with the home [TS]

00:09:45   button on the bottom and they've [TS]

00:09:46   iterated and integrating refined and [TS]

00:09:48   iterated and at but base the basic [TS]

00:09:50   functions and stuff have been the same [TS]

00:09:52   aside from you know a case you mentioned [TS]

00:09:53   the last show that the power button [TS]

00:09:55   moved to the side which is somewhat [TS]

00:09:57   Explo by the increasing size of the [TS]

00:09:59   phone and difficulty people would have [TS]

00:10:00   reaching elapsed that's not but other [TS]

00:10:01   than that the phone design of the phone [TS]

00:10:04   has been pretty cocky on the headphone [TS]

00:10:05   that headphone jack moving from top to [TS]

00:10:07   bottom but the the physical design of [TS]

00:10:08   the phone has been pretty constant and [TS]

00:10:10   I'm kind of excited to see them you know [TS]

00:10:12   say all bets are off we're moving things [TS]

00:10:14   around and we're going to try something [TS]

00:10:15   new so I actually had a chance to play [TS]

00:10:17   with the Galaxy s8 a couple days ago in [TS]

00:10:19   a Best Buy [TS]

00:10:21   with the exception of it feelin too way [TS]

00:10:23   too tall for its width and it being hard [TS]

00:10:26   to reach things as a result I actually [TS]

00:10:27   really enjoyed like that how you know [TS]

00:10:30   the general like look of the edge to [TS]

00:10:32   edge on the sides screen and everything [TS]

00:10:34   and the way to the home button I just [TS]

00:10:36   kind of instinctively like forced [TS]

00:10:38   touched the lower area where the home [TS]

00:10:40   button would be on an iPhone and it [TS]

00:10:42   turns out that's exactly what they want [TS]

00:10:44   you to do and it just clicked and it [TS]

00:10:47   recognized any firm press in that area [TS]

00:10:48   as a home button click and so the very [TS]

00:10:51   first thing I tried worked and was [TS]

00:10:53   correct and then as I was playing with [TS]

00:10:55   it over a few minute that I did that [TS]

00:10:56   here and there a few more times and [TS]

00:10:57   every time it just worked exactly as [TS]

00:10:59   expected and even when there was [TS]

00:11:00   something on screen there you know [TS]

00:11:02   something from the foreground app that [TS]

00:11:04   is in that spot that you know if it [TS]

00:11:05   misinterprets it as a touch it would've [TS]

00:11:07   activated that thing but [TS]

00:11:08   every time it interpreted it correctly [TS]

00:11:10   and it was great it was totally fine so [TS]

00:11:12   you know if Apple's going to go in a [TS]

00:11:14   direction like that where part of the [TS]

00:11:16   screen just becomes the home button [TS]

00:11:18   I think they totally can we've seen with [TS]

00:11:20   the iPhone 7 force touch button that's a [TS]

00:11:22   possibility that's totally fine and and [TS]

00:11:25   now we see with the s8 that it it [TS]

00:11:27   actually really does work the only major [TS]

00:11:29   question I would have for it is how do [TS]

00:11:32   they show this to people like how did [TS]

00:11:34   how is it handled in the in the UI does [TS]

00:11:37   the usable area of the screen for apps [TS]

00:11:40   actually extend that far like it does on [TS]

00:11:42   the s8 or is there a little like you [TS]

00:11:44   know reserved or like you were saying [TS]

00:11:45   join like maybe like a touch bar like [TS]

00:11:46   you know API area down there where like [TS]

00:11:49   you know apps would only actually take [TS]

00:11:51   up like the middle 80% of the height and [TS]

00:11:53   you know maybe not the very top bottom [TS]

00:11:55   or something like that you know but [TS]

00:11:56   anyway that you know having having the [TS]

00:11:59   just bottom area of the screen except a [TS]

00:12:01   firm touch as a home button that works [TS]

00:12:03   just fine I was going to ask if there [TS]

00:12:05   are any accessibility implications for [TS]

00:12:07   that but I would suppose with that um I [TS]

00:12:10   figure what you call it but we talked [TS]

00:12:11   about it a lot like several months ago [TS]

00:12:13   where you have little on-screen button [TS]

00:12:15   that lets you do the home button in like [TS]

00:12:17   in all sorts of other gestures what [TS]

00:12:19   what's the name of the thing you know [TS]

00:12:20   what I'm thinking assistive touch I [TS]

00:12:21   think yeah is to touch something like [TS]

00:12:23   that thank you I was about to ask you is [TS]

00:12:26   this an accessibility issue but I would [TS]

00:12:28   suppose assistive touch would fix any of [TS]

00:12:30   those problems I'm not sure but it's a [TS]

00:12:33   change well the the issue would be that [TS]

00:12:34   you could no longer feel the button like [TS]

00:12:36   kids you know now you can feel that ring [TS]

00:12:38   you know so it's like Java say more [TS]

00:12:40   easily tell like which direction the [TS]

00:12:41   phone is oriented without without like a [TS]

00:12:44   physical depression on the front surface [TS]

00:12:46   where the home button goes it's harder [TS]

00:12:48   to tell which ways up by feel alone so [TS]

00:12:51   that that would be an issue for sure I [TS]

00:12:53   don't know how they would solve that [TS]

00:12:54   maybe you just start getting used to [TS]

00:12:56   feeling for like the camera bump or [TS]

00:12:57   other features in the outside I don't [TS]

00:12:59   know if it is a dedicated area they [TS]

00:13:01   could do haptics to make it do it the [TS]

00:13:05   tiniest little jiggle when your finger [TS]

00:13:07   is over the reserved bottom section of [TS]

00:13:09   the phone like there's all sorts of [TS]

00:13:10   things they can do that's interesting [TS]

00:13:12   playing playing switch games with it's a [TS]

00:13:14   little it's been a couple articles [TS]

00:13:16   recently about the the haptic engine in [TS]

00:13:19   the Nintendo switch which is looks like [TS]

00:13:21   the same tech [TS]

00:13:22   apples been using its phones what I [TS]

00:13:23   figure they're called linear [TS]

00:13:24   something-or-other or whatever but it's [TS]

00:13:26   it's better than the old vibrators and [TS]

00:13:27   more precise and they're using it in [TS]

00:13:29   games to make it feel like things on [TS]

00:13:32   screen have some kind of physical [TS]

00:13:33   presence and it's surprisingly easy to [TS]

00:13:36   fool us I mean just we just talked about [TS]

00:13:39   the home button last time like it [TS]

00:13:40   doesn't feel like a button but it feels [TS]

00:13:42   like a thing that we rapidly get used to [TS]

00:13:43   and come to accept as the physical [TS]

00:13:46   reality of the phone right and I think I [TS]

00:13:49   think the best thing would be like if [TS]

00:13:50   you could turn off I mean I suppose you [TS]

00:13:52   can't isn't there some way you to turn [TS]

00:13:53   off vibration can you turn off the [TS]

00:13:55   haptic engine entirely I would assume so [TS]

00:13:58   but I don't know yeah but anyway if it [TS]

00:14:00   did turn off our devices would feel [TS]

00:14:02   broken in a different way please like [TS]

00:14:03   this is not how my glass rectangle is [TS]

00:14:05   supposed to move or feel so adding [TS]

00:14:08   something like oh when when your your [TS]

00:14:10   finger physically touches the correct [TS]

00:14:12   bottom part of the phone it gives the [TS]

00:14:14   the tiniest little jiggle and that would [TS]

00:14:16   be a physical way for you to feel with [TS]

00:14:18   your hands which side is the top or [TS]

00:14:20   bottom of my phone it wouldn't activate [TS]

00:14:22   anything yet because you haven't [TS]

00:14:23   actually pressed but basically when your [TS]

00:14:26   feeling for that little circle you want [TS]

00:14:28   to know which side is up you need that [TS]

00:14:30   information you need at where I'd be [TS]

00:14:32   provided physically that little circle [TS]

00:14:33   is about as subtle as the little jiggle [TS]

00:14:35   could be and once you find which side is [TS]

00:14:37   up if the whole bottom of the phone [TS]

00:14:38   functions is one giant button it's even [TS]

00:14:40   easier to hit than that little circle so [TS]

00:14:41   that that problem is solved so real-time [TS]

00:14:44   follow-up to turn off system haptic [TS]

00:14:46   switch has a subtitle of play haptics [TS]

00:14:49   for system controls interactions that's [TS]

00:14:51   in setting sounds and haptics and then [TS]

00:14:53   there's options for vibrate on ring [TS]

00:14:55   vibrate on silent sound in vibration [TS]

00:14:59   patterns and all the way at the bottom [TS]

00:15:00   is system haptic switch is a switch yes [TS]

00:15:03   now does that turn off the home button [TS]

00:15:04   just switch them on find out no the home [TS]

00:15:07   button still does I have to click yeah I [TS]

00:15:09   presume because it would be really [TS]

00:15:11   really eerie if it didn't feel it would [TS]

00:15:13   feel broken I mean to us if were you [TS]

00:15:15   used to it it's like it's whatever you [TS]

00:15:16   used to but it would feel like it [TS]

00:15:17   doesn't it's not the same physical [TS]

00:15:19   device anymore right that's the thing [TS]

00:15:21   about haptic like though it's it's [TS]

00:15:23   faking a physical must this is it gets a [TS]

00:15:26   lot to my pet peeves that my you know [TS]

00:15:29   things being done in hardware on video [TS]

00:15:30   cards which is like now and increasingly [TS]

00:15:32   dated peeve from the 80s [TS]

00:15:34   mechanical keyboards that for a [TS]

00:15:36   drives me nuts because you know like [TS]

00:15:38   Topshop please show me the [TS]

00:15:40   non-mechanical keyboards [TS]

00:15:42   I can do that do you remember when they [TS]

00:15:44   used to have the ones that they would [TS]

00:15:45   like shine it looked like laser like a [TS]

00:15:48   laser keyboard but it wasn't actually [TS]

00:15:50   lasers I'm sure yeah and how did you use [TS]

00:15:53   and how did you use those keyboards [TS]

00:15:54   gazing uh you put your fingers on a [TS]

00:15:57   surah you take your finger and you move [TS]

00:16:00   it you mean you take a no no no missing [TS]

00:16:02   the point you're just shining light on a [TS]

00:16:03   surface say like on a desktop no John [TS]

00:16:05   saying your fingers the Machine I know [TS]

00:16:07   what thing you're talking about but you [TS]

00:16:08   can't activate it with your mind you [TS]

00:16:10   have to physically move your hands and [TS]

00:16:13   press them into certain areas you're not [TS]

00:16:15   the press but you have to place your [TS]

00:16:16   fingers into the zone where the keys are [TS]

00:16:19   that is a physical act the keyboard [TS]

00:16:21   itself is not moving John wait so like [TS]

00:16:23   when when a conductor waves the stick [TS]

00:16:25   around in front of a band is that [TS]

00:16:27   considered a mechanical device you know [TS]

00:16:30   yeah I I would say I don't know it's [TS]

00:16:33   difficult to say when you consider [TS]

00:16:34   mechanical because it's not like that [TS]

00:16:35   light is just being emitted naturally [TS]

00:16:38   from the desktop we need an episode of [TS]

00:16:40   mechanical or not this is this is [TS]

00:16:42   definitely a pretty broad definition of [TS]

00:16:44   mechanical that you're using huge right [TS]

00:16:46   yeah when people talk about really in [TS]

00:16:48   the context I'm saying people talking [TS]

00:16:49   about chemical keyboards they're they're [TS]

00:16:50   saying as compared to the keyboard that [TS]

00:16:52   I'm sitting in front of which is the [TS]

00:16:53   Apple aluminum extended which is 100% [TS]

00:16:57   mechanical the keys move at you know [TS]

00:17:00   making contact for the thing that causes [TS]

00:17:02   a signal but it's not a quote-unquote [TS]

00:17:04   mechanical keyboard it's a it's a very [TS]

00:17:05   strange interpretation can i nitpick to [TS]

00:17:08   your definition of 100% mechanical yeah [TS]

00:17:11   what part of it is a mechanical I'm [TS]

00:17:12   pretty sure there's like there's like a [TS]

00:17:13   USB controller in there and I'm like no [TS]

00:17:16   I mean the keyboard part of it means the [TS]

00:17:18   same thing with mechanical keyboards [TS]

00:17:19   when you're just activating a switch so [TS]

00:17:21   electronic it's not like it's steam [TS]

00:17:22   power it's like a typewriter where [TS]

00:17:24   you're hitting a lever that's causing a [TS]

00:17:25   big thing to whack into a piece of paper [TS]

00:17:26   that makes you a key Jason Snell can you [TS]

00:17:30   can you fix this for us so we don't have [TS]

00:17:32   to do I know a pebble mean when they say [TS]

00:17:33   mechanical keyboards is just a silly [TS]

00:17:35   phrase like it is it is a term that has [TS]

00:17:37   taken on this alternate meaning that [TS]

00:17:38   doesn't really make sense if you think [TS]

00:17:39   about it but it is accepted as a term of [TS]

00:17:41   art so we all just say it and don't [TS]

00:17:43   think about it [TS]

00:17:43   help me Jason Snell you're my only hope [TS]

00:17:45   but what what I was getting at before I [TS]

00:17:47   do wrap myself that reference was [TS]

00:17:49   but the the idea that that haptics are a [TS]

00:17:55   replacement for things like the physical [TS]

00:17:57   home button right when they're not you [TS]

00:18:01   know they they work by doing a physical [TS]

00:18:04   thing something in your phone is moving [TS]

00:18:06   causing you to feel that motion it's [TS]

00:18:09   just an entirely different motion than [TS]

00:18:11   the surface that you pressed moving [TS]

00:18:14   downwards relative this to the surface [TS]

00:18:16   surrounding it but something is moving [TS]

00:18:17   and it is and you are feeling it as a [TS]

00:18:20   physical sensation so it is an alternate [TS]

00:18:24   physical action to replace other [TS]

00:18:25   physical actions is not the removal of [TS]

00:18:27   like physical buttons with non physical [TS]

00:18:30   buttons because I would say the iPhone 7 [TS]

00:18:32   button is still a physical button when [TS]

00:18:33   haptics are turned on because you press [TS]

00:18:36   as a physical action and you tell that [TS]

00:18:39   your press has been registered or [TS]

00:18:40   successful because you feel a response [TS]

00:18:42   the response is not your finger getting [TS]

00:18:43   lower inside the thing but it is a [TS]

00:18:46   physical sensation and so this [TS]

00:18:49   distinction between physical and [TS]

00:18:51   non-physical controls as haptics get [TS]

00:18:52   better like maybe it'll be like [TS]

00:18:54   mechanical keyboards it's just that [TS]

00:18:55   that's the way we'll describe it and you [TS]

00:18:57   know we won't bother thinking about [TS]

00:18:59   whether it makes sense or not [TS]

00:19:00   but it is a clever way to make a device [TS]

00:19:04   more reliable while still doing the [TS]

00:19:07   thing that works best with humans we [TS]

00:19:09   have you know hands and fingers that are [TS]

00:19:11   sensitive and you know they're sensitive [TS]

00:19:14   to motion it's a good way to tell how [TS]

00:19:16   things are happening without looking at [TS]

00:19:18   them so you can put feel in your pocket [TS]

00:19:20   or Sokol you know physical buttons as [TS]

00:19:22   opposed to those on physical ones I can [TS]

00:19:24   feel what the volume controls are I can [TS]

00:19:25   feel what the power button is I can feel [TS]

00:19:27   where the home button is I can feel that [TS]

00:19:28   it has been activated I can physically [TS]

00:19:30   press it all that stuff plays to the [TS]

00:19:32   strengths of our hands and fingers which [TS]

00:19:34   is how we use our iPhones and so [TS]

00:19:36   anything Apple does related to that is [TS]

00:19:39   wise to to leverage those abilities in [TS]

00:19:42   the same way the touch bar tries to do [TS]

00:19:44   that but because it has no haptics [TS]

00:19:46   you're left with kind of a surface that [TS]

00:19:50   you have to look at more than you would [TS]

00:19:52   otherwise and you can press on it but [TS]

00:19:54   it's more like a touchscreen in that it [TS]

00:19:56   doesn't do anything when you press any [TS]

00:19:58   of those things which is another reason [TS]

00:19:59   a lot of people have difficulties with [TS]

00:20:00   touch bar is that it is replacing [TS]

00:20:01   buttons with some [TS]

00:20:02   that is less button like whereas I feel [TS]

00:20:05   like the iPhone 7 home button replace [TS]

00:20:07   the button with something that is it's [TS]

00:20:09   like an alternate take on a button but [TS]

00:20:11   it is you know it's like it's like they [TS]

00:20:13   replace the function keys on the MacBook [TS]

00:20:15   with the screen from the iPhone the [TS]

00:20:17   screen is not the same kind of a button [TS]

00:20:19   because they don't know where the [TS]

00:20:20   buttons are going to be but on the touch [TS]

00:20:21   bar seems like you could know they were [TS]

00:20:23   kind of you know anyway this is just my [TS]

00:20:26   mild musings on haptics but I think they [TS]

00:20:29   are long-term I think there's there's [TS]

00:20:32   legs [TS]

00:20:32   this whole haptic thing I mean you know [TS]

00:20:34   as Apple has been so excited and proud [TS]

00:20:36   to show it's a little you know how much [TS]

00:20:39   better the vibration is in each phone [TS]

00:20:40   and this haptic engine that they they [TS]

00:20:43   branded with this taptic stuff I think [TS]

00:20:46   they're actually onto something there I [TS]

00:20:49   think we'll just see more and more of [TS]

00:20:50   that from Apple and other companies [TS]

00:20:52   because it works with humans but they [TS]

00:20:54   could be apples slogan since they're not [TS]

00:20:55   doing the computer with the rest of us [TS]

00:20:57   anymore competing with the rest of us [TS]

00:20:58   anymore it works with humans TM we were [TS]

00:21:02   sponsored this week by Kasper and [TS]

00:21:03   obsessively engineered mattress at a [TS]

00:21:05   shockingly fair price go to Casper comm [TS]

00:21:07   slash ATP and use code ATP for $50 [TS]

00:21:11   towards your mattress Kasper created one [TS]

00:21:14   perfect mattress and they sell it [TS]

00:21:16   directly to consumers which eliminates [TS]

00:21:18   Commission driven inflated prices the [TS]

00:21:20   award-winning Casper mattress was [TS]

00:21:22   developed in house as a sleek design and [TS]

00:21:24   is delivered in a surprisingly small box [TS]

00:21:26   you can actually get it up your [TS]

00:21:28   staircase if you have narrow stairs and [TS]

00:21:29   they also offer adaptive pillow and soft [TS]

00:21:32   breathable sheets and the mattress [TS]

00:21:33   industry has been full of notoriously [TS]

00:21:35   high markups forever Casper has [TS]

00:21:38   revolutionized it by cutting the cost of [TS]

00:21:39   dealing with all these resellers and [TS]

00:21:41   showrooms and passing the savings to you [TS]

00:21:43   the in-house team of engineers spent [TS]

00:21:45   thousands of hours developing the Casper [TS]

00:21:47   mattress with supportive memory foams [TS]

00:21:49   for a sleep service with just the right [TS]

00:21:51   sink and just the right balance and the [TS]

00:21:53   breathable design sleep school to help [TS]

00:21:56   you regulate your temperature throughout [TS]

00:21:57   the night and they've made buying [TS]

00:21:59   mattresses online which sounds kind of [TS]

00:22:01   crazy completely easy and risk-free [TS]

00:22:03   here's how they do it they offer free [TS]

00:22:05   delivery in a wonderful box and free [TS]

00:22:08   returns within a hundred night home [TS]

00:22:10   trial so you can just sleep on it for [TS]

00:22:12   over three months and if you don't love [TS]

00:22:14   it they will pick it up [TS]

00:22:16   at your house and give you a full refund [TS]

00:22:18   it's that easy they understand the [TS]

00:22:21   importance of truly sleeping on a [TS]

00:22:23   mattress before you commit because [TS]

00:22:24   you're going to be spending a third of [TS]

00:22:25   your life on it now we've heard from [TS]

00:22:27   friends listeners who've all had great [TS]

00:22:29   things to say about the Casper mattress [TS]

00:22:30   Time magazine even named it one of the [TS]

00:22:32   best inventions of the year when it came [TS]

00:22:33   out so get yours today and try it for a [TS]

00:22:36   hundred nights in your own home with [TS]

00:22:38   free delivery and free returns with home [TS]

00:22:40   pickup completely all risk free go to [TS]

00:22:44   Casper comm slash ATP and use code ATP [TS]

00:22:47   for $50 towards your mattress thank you [TS]

00:22:49   very much to Casper for sponsoring our [TS]

00:22:51   show ah let's talk about a wiki Tribune [TS]

00:22:57   of which I know basically nothing and I [TS]

00:23:00   am failing at my job as chief summarizer [TS]

00:23:03   in chief so Marco I feel like I saw you [TS]

00:23:05   tweeting about this when it first broke [TS]

00:23:07   do you want to kind of fill us in as to [TS]

00:23:09   what wiki Tribune is about honestly I [TS]

00:23:11   barely know I just signed up because I [TS]

00:23:14   wanted to support this cause so John can [TS]

00:23:18   you give a better summary than that I [TS]

00:23:19   can this has been a no no it's like [TS]

00:23:21   three weeks people but I think I think [TS]

00:23:23   one place we can start is Marco with his [TS]

00:23:25   lack of knowledge why did you decide to [TS]

00:23:28   sign up for the what did you do by [TS]

00:23:29   signing up did you did you like have to [TS]

00:23:31   give money or pledge to give money like [TS]

00:23:32   what what it was the signup thing that [TS]

00:23:34   you did it's some kind of like pre [TS]

00:23:36   commitment type system like Kickstarter [TS]

00:23:38   but like I don't think they're gonna [TS]

00:23:39   charge me until they hit their minimum [TS]

00:23:40   or unless they hit their own in them [TS]

00:23:41   something like that but is a money thing [TS]

00:23:43   like yours you're supporting this effort [TS]

00:23:44   with money right yeah I signed up to [TS]

00:23:46   making monthly donation or whatever it [TS]

00:23:49   is - all right so what led you to do [TS]

00:23:51   that well basically there's a lot of [TS]

00:23:56   things about journalism these days that [TS]

00:23:59   I think are really dysfunctional or [TS]

00:24:01   broken and this seems like it could fix [TS]

00:24:05   some of them not all of them you know I [TS]

00:24:07   don't think it's probably possible to [TS]

00:24:09   fix all of them but this could fix some [TS]

00:24:11   of them in a fairly big way so if it [TS]

00:24:14   works that'll be great [TS]

00:24:15   if not you know I I lost a little buddy [TS]

00:24:17   on the way and then I'll stop losing it [TS]

00:24:19   when I cancel it that's it you know it [TS]

00:24:21   seems like a good cause I feel like all [TS]

00:24:24   of the Wikipedia donation prompts that I [TS]

00:24:27   think that I've ignored over the year [TS]

00:24:30   closed for the year is about giving I [TS]

00:24:32   feel like maybe I owe something to Jimmy [TS]

00:24:34   Wales's causes so here here I'm going to [TS]

00:24:37   finally make that good I guess so to go [TS]

00:24:40   back and give a vague summary of what [TS]

00:24:41   that this thing is it is from the [TS]

00:24:43   Wikipedia guy you've seen his face the [TS]

00:24:46   top of Wikipedia asking for money now [TS]

00:24:48   you can see his face on a different [TS]

00:24:49   website asking you for money for a [TS]

00:24:50   different thing so it has the pedigree [TS]

00:24:52   of you know Wikipedia which is a [TS]

00:24:55   tremendously successful community [TS]

00:24:57   platform for doing whatever is people do [TS]

00:25:00   on Wikipedia and this is about trying to [TS]

00:25:04   make the news better like Marco satis [TS]

00:25:05   give the same some of the same [TS]

00:25:06   complaints about news and the incentive [TS]

00:25:08   structures and how doesn't lead to good [TS]

00:25:10   information being disseminated and [TS]

00:25:12   there's lots of all anti patterns and [TS]

00:25:14   with how its funded and what gets [TS]

00:25:17   published and how its published and [TS]

00:25:19   versus what people want to read and you [TS]

00:25:22   know what sells ads and so on and so [TS]

00:25:24   forth so this is a sort of Wikipedia [TS]

00:25:26   style approach to news where it's very [TS]

00:25:28   open and transparent so you everyone [TS]

00:25:31   who's reading can see what's going on [TS]

00:25:32   there's no ads so you don't have to [TS]

00:25:33   worry about the entire thing being made [TS]

00:25:35   to you know to drive ad views which is a [TS]

00:25:37   problem in the web in general not just [TS]

00:25:39   sun news and everything like that and [TS]

00:25:41   like wikipedia is community oriented [TS]

00:25:45   where it's not just like these people [TS]

00:25:47   produce the content and the rest of the [TS]

00:25:49   world reads it everybody participates in [TS]

00:25:52   in theory making the things better [TS]

00:25:54   although there are professional [TS]

00:25:55   journalists involved as well so it's not [TS]

00:25:56   just like hey make up whatever you want [TS]

00:25:58   and publish whatever you want because [TS]

00:25:59   that's just called the web that's not [TS]

00:26:00   that's not and trying to you know be [TS]

00:26:08   transparent to the people who are giving [TS]

00:26:09   money like a you know how are they going [TS]

00:26:10   to fund all this through people like [TS]

00:26:12   Marco same way Wikipedia is funded how [TS]

00:26:14   does Wikipedia exist Jimmy Wales head [TS]

00:26:16   ask you for money every once in a while [TS]

00:26:18   and there are I'm swimming there [TS]

00:26:20   investors or stuff like that and they [TS]

00:26:22   have this kind of Venn diagram at the [TS]

00:26:24   top where it shows three circles and the [TS]

00:26:28   three circles our community facts and [TS]

00:26:30   journalists and wiki wiki Tribune is the [TS]

00:26:35   confusing diamond-shaped intersection of [TS]

00:26:37   all three of those circles own when I [TS]

00:26:38   see the intersection between three [TS]

00:26:40   circles I don't get a diamond shape but [TS]

00:26:42   it's a logo that's some creative license [TS]

00:26:43   there it's fine yeah and so I think [TS]

00:26:47   Markos explanation of why he gave money [TS]

00:26:49   is is probably a lot of people gave [TS]

00:26:52   money it's like or you know because it [TS]

00:26:54   is like Kickstarter it's like you know [TS]

00:26:55   you you pledge money and if everything [TS]

00:26:58   goes well you will get charged for your [TS]

00:27:00   money or whatever no probably will this [TS]

00:27:01   is very popular but it seems like a [TS]

00:27:04   small amount and just like a Kickstarter [TS]

00:27:06   you're like I don't know if they'll ever [TS]

00:27:08   shut this damn cooler but it will cool [TS]

00:27:12   so yeah [TS]

00:27:13   spoiler alert like it's not a big deal [TS]

00:27:17   like if they never go anywhere or if I [TS]

00:27:19   fund it for a few months and it's not [TS]

00:27:21   that good whatever but I think there is [TS]

00:27:24   an appetite for an attempt to find a [TS]

00:27:27   solution to the fix all of you know it [TS]

00:27:30   journalism finds itself in at this [TS]

00:27:32   moment in transition between the old [TS]

00:27:34   world of newspapers and the way this [TS]

00:27:36   they were funded and the barriers to [TS]

00:27:38   entry in this new world where it's much [TS]

00:27:39   easier for more people to publish but [TS]

00:27:42   it's much harder to find ways to fund [TS]

00:27:44   content that isn't sort of lowest common [TS]

00:27:46   denominator you know because people go [TS]

00:27:50   what people want to read and what what [TS]

00:27:53   it we would be most beneficial to [TS]

00:27:55   society that if people were to read are [TS]

00:27:58   two very different things and that is a [TS]

00:28:00   you know the incentives are not aligned [TS]

00:28:02   if the only way you can get money is by [TS]

00:28:04   attracting people to read things you [TS]

00:28:06   will inevitably end up giving people [TS]

00:28:08   what they want which is not always what [TS]

00:28:11   they need which is a paternalistic view [TS]

00:28:12   that people hate like oh the people in [TS]

00:28:13   the ivory tower can determine what I [TS]

00:28:15   need to see why can't people just pick [TS]

00:28:16   what they need to see there's a balance [TS]

00:28:18   like I mean even even in the battle days [TS]

00:28:21   of my childhood when there was no [TS]

00:28:22   internet there were things called [TS]

00:28:24   tabloids that provided you same stuff [TS]

00:28:27   you can find on the internet now [TS]

00:28:28   something that stuff is like oh that [TS]

00:28:29   didn't exist before the Internet of [TS]

00:28:31   course it did like you know batboy found [TS]

00:28:33   the National Enquirer like you know [TS]

00:28:35   aliens are everywhere right that stuff [TS]

00:28:37   has always and will always exist and I'm [TS]

00:28:41   not even sure if it's any more prevalent [TS]

00:28:42   than it is today the difference today is [TS]

00:28:43   that the sort of slow motion decline of [TS]

00:28:48   the ivory tower we know it's best for [TS]

00:28:50   you were to apply a bunch of reasoning [TS]

00:28:55   rules that you don't know about or agree [TS]

00:28:59   with to try to provide what we think is [TS]

00:29:02   you know the news that's fit to print [TS]

00:29:04   and that has been in slow decline mostly [TS]

00:29:07   rightfully so because it's kind of a [TS]

00:29:10   concentration of power that is not you [TS]

00:29:12   know that is artificial you know [TS]

00:29:14   technological barriers to distribution [TS]

00:29:16   information causing you to exist but I [TS]

00:29:19   would also say that in this new world [TS]

00:29:20   where it's easier to just route [TS]

00:29:21   information a lot of people like Marco [TS]

00:29:23   and and me and I would imagine Casey are [TS]

00:29:25   less satisfied with how things are going [TS]

00:29:29   now that we want to go back at the old [TS]

00:29:30   ways because that was been in a [TS]

00:29:31   different set of ways but there there [TS]

00:29:33   are pathologies in the new structure of [TS]

00:29:37   news that we wish we could get rid of [TS]

00:29:39   it's like you know we all want to read [TS]

00:29:41   really good high-quality you know [TS]

00:29:44   journalism according to the you know the [TS]

00:29:47   system of journalism is like it's [TS]

00:29:49   something that most of us can agree upon [TS]

00:29:50   kind of like scientific method it's just [TS]

00:29:52   the question of it is a you know how is [TS]

00:29:54   it executed by fallible humans and how [TS]

00:29:57   do we provide the resources for it to be [TS]

00:30:00   executed and that's what this thing is [TS]

00:30:03   trying to provide now my my personal [TS]

00:30:07   grudge against disagreement with [TS]

00:30:10   indifference to Wikipedia as an [TS]

00:30:13   institution depending on how you want to [TS]

00:30:14   phrase it gave it caused me to have a [TS]

00:30:18   little snarky chuckle when I saw this [TS]

00:30:20   this Venn diagram here [TS]

00:30:22   it's like community journalists and [TS]

00:30:23   facts where I don't need to give me well [TS]

00:30:25   so like oh oh now you care about facts [TS]

00:30:28   Jimmy rails I thought it was just all [TS]

00:30:29   about verified villainy wait a sec it [TS]

00:30:31   and maybe they don't mean facts maybe [TS]

00:30:32   they actually mean verifiability but [TS]

00:30:33   that's the thing about journalism [TS]

00:30:34   journalism you know like they are [TS]

00:30:37   pursuing the truth of what happened it's [TS]

00:30:41   not enough for a journalist to say you [TS]

00:30:43   know is what you know one thing is for [TS]

00:30:44   reporters to say let me just tell you [TS]

00:30:46   what somebody said but journalists tried [TS]

00:30:48   to uncover the truth if they can find [TS]

00:30:49   out what really happened by talking to [TS]

00:30:52   more people and gathering evidence [TS]

00:30:53   that's part of journalism too and the [TS]

00:30:57   journalist is not going to call it a day [TS]

00:30:59   when they have quotes from three [TS]

00:31:00   prominent people about what happened the [TS]

00:31:02   journalists would like to know yeah but [TS]

00:31:04   would really happen right I know these [TS]

00:31:05   quotes are verifiable I know you said [TS]

00:31:08   this at this time [TS]

00:31:09   and this other paper publish this thing [TS]

00:31:10   but what really happened what are the [TS]

00:31:12   facts and that is an important part of [TS]

00:31:15   journalism that is not an important part [TS]

00:31:17   of Wikipedia is what community doesn't [TS]

00:31:18   care what the hell the facts are because [TS]

00:31:19   that's not what it is this tertiary [TS]

00:31:20   source I don't want to go off on my rant [TS]

00:31:23   about Wikipedia again so it's kind of [TS]

00:31:25   exciting to see this taking a different [TS]

00:31:28   slant on things but as I scroll down [TS]

00:31:30   through their plan and see like [TS]

00:31:31   journalists and commute and community [TS]

00:31:33   cooperating all I can think about is [TS]

00:31:35   like this is like a battle arena for [TS]

00:31:37   edit Wars it's like edit war is [TS]

00:31:39   distilled because if you think they're [TS]

00:31:41   edit wars on the Wikipedia page for you [TS]

00:31:43   know insert favorite controversial [TS]

00:31:45   political figure can you imagine what [TS]

00:31:47   the Edit wars will be like on literally [TS]

00:31:49   any actual current event news story in [TS]

00:31:51   the current political climate like [TS]

00:31:53   there's almost nothing you can put in [TS]

00:31:55   there you know articles being you know [TS]

00:31:57   fact checked and verified by journalists [TS]

00:31:59   and community community members working [TS]

00:32:01   side by side as equals and I just just [TS]

00:32:05   picture a giant arena with like people [TS]

00:32:07   with boards with nails sticking out of [TS]

00:32:08   them like I don't I'm not sure how it [TS]

00:32:11   can work and you say well look at [TS]

00:32:12   Wikipedia it works yeah I mean like you [TS]

00:32:14   know that that's the biggest example [TS]

00:32:16   like Wikipedia has the same issue you [TS]

00:32:18   know any any kind of you know political [TS]

00:32:21   topic also has a Wikipedia page and they [TS]

00:32:24   you know they've built systems and [TS]

00:32:26   policies and norms up around controlling [TS]

00:32:28   that problem there too and so you know I [TS]

00:32:31   think if you I think if anybody has [TS]

00:32:33   shown that they have the ability to [TS]

00:32:35   manage that part of this it's the people [TS]

00:32:37   who made Wikipedia and and who built [TS]

00:32:40   that whole community up so that I think [TS]

00:32:42   I'm actually not concerned about the [TS]

00:32:43   whole edit war problem I also do I also [TS]

00:32:45   don't really go to the graffiti is a [TS]

00:32:47   counterexample there's like no the fact [TS]

00:32:49   that so many pages on Wikipedia are [TS]

00:32:52   incredibly locked down because of the [TS]

00:32:54   Edit horrors almost to the point where [TS]

00:32:57   they become frozen in time which is kind [TS]

00:32:59   of ok for historical things but for for [TS]

00:33:01   pages that are ongoing they become the [TS]

00:33:04   sole domain of a very small number of [TS]

00:33:06   people who have even the ability to edit [TS]

00:33:08   page and everybody else is completely [TS]

00:33:11   locked out and yet still they have edit [TS]

00:33:13   wars and arguments about what goes up [TS]

00:33:16   like if not you can't do journalism in [TS]

00:33:18   that environment I feel like the [TS]

00:33:20   controversial pages on Wikipedia [TS]

00:33:22   our a not the best source for [TS]

00:33:23   information on their topics and B do a [TS]

00:33:27   terrible job of staying up to date and C [TS]

00:33:29   do not allow the input from the [TS]

00:33:31   community because they have to be walled [TS]

00:33:33   off they have to be cemented set in [TS]

00:33:35   stone guarded night and day [TS]

00:33:37   incredibly protected they become [TS]

00:33:40   ossified I think the best pages on [TS]

00:33:42   Wikipedia are the pages that few people [TS]

00:33:44   care about but you know the classic [TS]

00:33:45   example of being like lists of Pokemon [TS]

00:33:47   and stuff right [TS]

00:33:47   because oh I'll go K no one know well [TS]

00:33:50   maybe they're already wars in Pokemon [TS]

00:33:51   sorry if I'm big but like but pages that [TS]

00:33:53   are on more obscure topics because the [TS]

00:33:55   only people who edit and contribute to [TS]

00:33:57   them are the people who really are [TS]

00:33:58   interested in the topic no one cares [TS]

00:34:00   enough to vandalize it or edit them and [TS]

00:34:01   no one is there telling them what they [TS]

00:34:03   can and can't add and especially if they [TS]

00:34:05   don't have any kind of political or [TS]

00:34:07   factional angle again Pokemon may not be [TS]

00:34:09   great example they end up being filled [TS]

00:34:11   with all sorts of interesting and useful [TS]

00:34:12   information whereas the stories in any [TS]

00:34:14   topic that has any controversial at any [TS]

00:34:16   part of it that's controversial you're [TS]

00:34:18   better off just scrolling to the bottom [TS]

00:34:19   looking all the references and reading [TS]

00:34:20   all those than actually reading the [TS]

00:34:21   Wikipedia page so I mean I get what [TS]

00:34:24   you're saying about they have systems in [TS]

00:34:25   place but I think the system's negate [TS]

00:34:27   the advantages they're trying to do we [TS]

00:34:28   just fly every Wikipedia because every [TS]

00:34:29   page on Wikipedia is not a super duper [TS]

00:34:31   controversial page in fact very few of [TS]

00:34:32   them are so the vast majority wikipedia [TS]

00:34:35   is awesome when you just want to get a [TS]

00:34:36   quick plot synopsis of a particular [TS]

00:34:39   episode of Doctor Who in a particular [TS]

00:34:40   season that's on Wikipedia and you'll [TS]

00:34:43   find it quickly and the webpage won't be [TS]

00:34:44   gross or filled with ads and it's a [TS]

00:34:46   reliable source for that because no one [TS]

00:34:48   cares enough about to screw with it or [TS]

00:34:49   as reliable as any source could be but [TS]

00:34:51   when you go to any page having to do [TS]

00:34:54   with any controversial topic I feel like [TS]

00:34:56   like when's the last time you read a [TS]

00:34:57   Wikipedia page and a controversial topic [TS]

00:34:58   like I don't I don't even bother going [TS]

00:35:00   to them anymore like I would again [TS]

00:35:02   rather just scroll right down to the [TS]

00:35:03   references and read the you know primary [TS]

00:35:05   and secondary sources than this dystocia [TS]

00:35:07   Airy summary because it doesn't it [TS]

00:35:08   doesn't speak to me as a as a great [TS]

00:35:10   source of information well I mean keep [TS]

00:35:12   in mind that you know these days every [TS]

00:35:15   fact is a controversial topic even in [TS]

00:35:18   those days of things that you would [TS]

00:35:19   think wouldn't be and also that you know [TS]

00:35:22   wiki Tribune is is I think largely [TS]

00:35:25   probably not going to have this problem [TS]

00:35:27   because it's probably not going to be [TS]

00:35:29   that big of a deal if it does become a [TS]

00:35:31   big deal if it does actually start [TS]

00:35:34   attracting large amounts of traffic [TS]

00:35:36   then I think it will rise to the the [TS]

00:35:38   levels of you know these kinds of [TS]

00:35:41   challenges that Wikipedia has because [TS]

00:35:43   Wikipedia has been you know such a [TS]

00:35:44   massive you know traffic getter for so [TS]

00:35:47   long so you know it's ranked so well [TS]

00:35:49   everywhere but like wiki Tribune is [TS]

00:35:51   starting from zero it's starting from no [TS]

00:35:53   audience basically so it might be a [TS]

00:35:56   while before you had enough people to [TS]

00:35:57   matter and honestly I disagree with you [TS]

00:35:59   I think Wikipedia is as good as [TS]

00:36:02   something like this could be about [TS]

00:36:03   dealing with controversial things like [TS]

00:36:05   that you know it's it's a hard problem [TS]

00:36:06   but but the bar it depends on the [TS]

00:36:08   contrary I mean use the main controversy [TS]

00:36:10   I haven't use Wikipedia controversial [TS]

00:36:11   pages is the idea that the people who [TS]

00:36:13   hold the keys to power to the [TS]

00:36:14   controversial pages themselves tend to [TS]

00:36:17   be homogeneous and have various biases [TS]

00:36:19   let's say yeah that's a private and that [TS]

00:36:21   the system itself has no way to deal [TS]

00:36:23   with that like that it concentrates [TS]

00:36:24   power like I like I'm thinking of wiki [TS]

00:36:27   Tribune as perhaps an unintentional [TS]

00:36:31   backdoor way to get people to just [TS]

00:36:33   straight up pay for news which many [TS]

00:36:34   people the front-door way has been like [TS]

00:36:36   hey sign up for the New York Times [TS]

00:36:37   digital like can we can we make money [TS]

00:36:39   from people paying us to read our web [TS]

00:36:42   pages everyone's been trying to do that [TS]

00:36:44   it's really difficult the whole paywall [TS]

00:36:45   thing right wiki Tribune is like we're [TS]

00:36:47   open and free to everybody man fast [TS]

00:36:49   forward five years if they get super [TS]

00:36:50   popular and they lock everything down [TS]

00:36:52   and eventually it's like wait a second [TS]

00:36:54   this is just a newspaper where [TS]

00:36:56   professional journals do things and [TS]

00:36:57   people pay them and it's not a giant [TS]

00:36:59   community published thing it is like a [TS]

00:37:01   bunch of articles that nobody can add it [TS]

00:37:03   picks every single story about the [TS]

00:37:05   president is super duper controversial [TS]

00:37:06   and every one of them is super lock down [TS]

00:37:08   the only people get edited of the [TS]

00:37:10   professional journalists who get money [TS]

00:37:11   from the contributors and the five [TS]

00:37:13   people who all happen to be the same [TS]

00:37:16   type of person with the same type of [TS]

00:37:17   background who has the time and [TS]

00:37:18   inclination to spend all day on a wiki [TS]

00:37:20   Tribune and now it is just a weirdly [TS]

00:37:22   organized newspaper that you'll pay for [TS]

00:37:23   which wouldn't be the end of the world [TS]

00:37:25   because again that's things that people [TS]

00:37:26   have been looking for hey can we get [TS]

00:37:28   people to pay money to support News like [TS]

00:37:30   as opposed to wanting everything for [TS]

00:37:33   free and wanting every article to be you [TS]

00:37:35   know a click Beatty tabloid e celebrity [TS]

00:37:39   news kind of thing I guess if they do [TS]

00:37:41   that they're kind of a success but I [TS]

00:37:42   have a hard time envisioning a future [TS]

00:37:45   where that where [TS]

00:37:48   or they are wildly successful and yet [TS]

00:37:51   still still even open to the degree that [TS]

00:37:53   Wikipedia is open because unlike [TS]

00:37:56   Wikipedia pretty much everything a news [TS]

00:37:58   organization will report will attract [TS]

00:38:02   factions okay like like you said Marco [TS]

00:38:04   they could report on the weather and [TS]

00:38:06   people will yeah well we'll leave nasty [TS]

00:38:09   comments about you know climate denial [TS]

00:38:11   so that you know like that I can't think [TS]

00:38:13   of a top there's not even a human [TS]

00:38:14   interest story if I try to put something [TS]

00:38:15   about dogs and people won't like it like [TS]

00:38:17   nothing is safe in this climate so they [TS]

00:38:19   have their work cut out for them but all [TS]

00:38:21   this said I don't feel like I'm slamming [TS]

00:38:23   would be on the potential what it could [TS]

00:38:24   be [TS]

00:38:24   I didn't donate any money but I wish [TS]

00:38:29   them well because I also like Marco want [TS]

00:38:33   somebody to address this problem and no [TS]

00:38:35   one has it tried this proach no one with [TS]

00:38:38   of this caliber has a tried this [TS]

00:38:39   approach so we're not going to find out [TS]

00:38:40   if it works unless somebody does it and [TS]

00:38:42   so I'm like alright you know go forward [TS]

00:38:44   like I certainly the fact that facts [TS]

00:38:46   with a little arrow is a big circle in [TS]

00:38:48   the middle makes me happy by all means [TS]

00:38:51   go for that the other aspect of this is [TS]

00:38:53   say they succeed in producing what they [TS]

00:38:56   say they're going to produce and their [TS]

00:38:58   system produces good content do people [TS]

00:39:01   read it I guess [TS]

00:39:04   like is that something people want to do [TS]

00:39:06   I want to go to wiki Tribune because [TS]

00:39:08   they have they got their facts straight [TS]

00:39:10   I mean everyone wants a non-partisan [TS]

00:39:14   news source right now they don't know [TS]

00:39:16   everyone wants to hear their own their [TS]

00:39:18   own biases reflected to them and repairs [TS]

00:39:20   people want like I said something like [TS]

00:39:23   how do they get people to come and read [TS]

00:39:24   this like it was easier when you only [TS]

00:39:27   had a few choices and all those choices [TS]

00:39:30   had you know had systems in place that [TS]

00:39:34   constrained what could be talked about [TS]

00:39:36   which perpetuated you know tons of [TS]

00:39:39   systems of power in terms of whose [TS]

00:39:41   stories got to get told with what angle [TS]

00:39:43   on them so it was terrible in many many [TS]

00:39:44   ways but the good aspects of it were in [TS]

00:39:48   the areas where the system wasn't [TS]

00:39:50   completely aligned against hearing about [TS]

00:39:52   things that you know that we weren't [TS]

00:39:53   supposed to hear about there was an [TS]

00:39:56   expectation that for example the news [TS]

00:39:57   department and advertising were [TS]

00:39:59   separated from each other in some way [TS]

00:40:01   like that was part of the [TS]

00:40:02   suppose they work based on and that only [TS]

00:40:05   works if the news department isn't isn't [TS]

00:40:08   responsible for bringing in more money [TS]

00:40:09   if year after year after year and that [TS]

00:40:11   ship is long sailed so now it's like got [TS]

00:40:13   to make more money got to get more [TS]

00:40:14   viewers how do we do that tell them what [TS]

00:40:15   they want to hear and the cyclist goes [TS]

00:40:17   around around that's what this is trying [TS]

00:40:18   to resolve so say it resolves it and [TS]

00:40:20   they make real quality news but no one [TS]

00:40:21   ever comes and reads it they still a [TS]

00:40:23   success [TS]

00:40:25   maybe I don't I think I really think [TS]

00:40:28   this could be very popular because I [TS]

00:40:31   think somebody like that the two of you [TS]

00:40:35   guys and myself somebody like us who [TS]

00:40:38   wants to be informed but wants a very [TS]

00:40:40   level-headed take as to what's going on [TS]

00:40:43   I think this is a potentially pert well [TS]

00:40:46   maybe not perfect but a really great [TS]

00:40:48   answer to that need I agree with you [TS]

00:40:51   that I shouldn't have said everyone [TS]

00:40:52   wants this because a lot of people [TS]

00:40:54   probably don't want this but I also [TS]

00:40:56   think there's a lot of people that do [TS]

00:40:57   want this that do you want a [TS]

00:40:59   level-headed take on things that's why [TS]

00:41:01   for example in my RSS reader that I [TS]

00:41:03   rarely look at anymore my source of news [TS]

00:41:06   is the BBC because I have the BBC's us [TS]

00:41:09   coverage and I feel like that is the [TS]

00:41:11   least politically motivated news source [TS]

00:41:15   that I can find I don't need to hear of [TS]

00:41:18   better ones I don't really care if the [TS]

00:41:19   BBC is imperfect that's I'm not trying [TS]

00:41:22   to start a fight here oh they just [TS]

00:41:24   they're just reinforcing your biases [TS]

00:41:26   that's why you like them if it could be [TS]

00:41:28   very well could be that's what I thought [TS]

00:41:30   that's the situation I think we find [TS]

00:41:31   ourselves in wait wait what if your [TS]

00:41:33   biases are true in fact I'll say yeah [TS]

00:41:38   the idea here's the problem with it with [TS]

00:41:40   polarized marketplace is that you know [TS]

00:41:44   things don't exist in isolation say [TS]

00:41:45   there was a news source that would did a [TS]

00:41:48   really good job but did a really good [TS]

00:41:50   job of executing journalism classic [TS]

00:41:52   journalism the rule of journalism which [TS]

00:41:53   you know like the traditional rules of [TS]

00:41:56   journalism in terms of what you're [TS]

00:41:57   supposed to do as a reporter and what [TS]

00:41:59   your job is and isn't all separate from [TS]

00:42:02   you know editorial and opinion which is [TS]

00:42:04   a whole separate thing but just like the [TS]

00:42:05   plain straight up journalism reporting [TS]

00:42:08   thing there's still an editorial [TS]

00:42:10   function deciding what should and [TS]

00:42:14   shouldn't you cover how many stories in [TS]

00:42:15   topic a [TS]

00:42:16   the source and topic could be how many [TS]

00:42:17   how many stories about this aspect of [TS]

00:42:21   whatever like it's impossible to pull [TS]

00:42:23   yourself entirely away from that and [TS]

00:42:25   it's also impossible to think about what [TS]

00:42:27   your publication is doing in isolation [TS]

00:42:29   you exist as a publication in an [TS]

00:42:32   ecosystem with tons of other [TS]

00:42:34   publications and a lot of the ecosystem [TS]

00:42:35   is defined by how many people read or [TS]

00:42:39   you know watch or whatever consumed [TS]

00:42:41   these different publications and in that [TS]

00:42:43   environment that's why you see a lot of [TS]

00:42:46   like you know people on our side of the [TS]

00:42:48   world liberals or whatever being drawn [TS]

00:42:51   to liberal-leaning [TS]

00:42:53   publications because they see it as the [TS]

00:42:55   only possible way to counterbalance the [TS]

00:42:59   things leaning in the other direction [TS]

00:43:00   because we know those things that [TS]

00:43:02   leaning the other direction exist we [TS]

00:43:04   know what we all think they're terrible [TS]

00:43:06   and we know tons and tons of people use [TS]

00:43:09   them as their exclusive source of news [TS]

00:43:10   and so by providing it a neutral thing [TS]

00:43:13   it's like well that's all well and good [TS]

00:43:15   if we just want to know what's happening [TS]

00:43:17   but if we want to balance the scales and [TS]

00:43:19   that we have to have a left-leaning [TS]

00:43:21   publication and eventually like I want [TS]

00:43:24   to read the left-leaning thing because [TS]

00:43:25   all I hear all day from you know people [TS]

00:43:28   who I disagree with is them citing [TS]

00:43:30   they're super duper right-leaning things [TS]

00:43:31   and so don't lean and that's how you end [TS]

00:43:33   up with polarization SuperDuper [TS]

00:43:34   left-wing super duper right-leaning and [TS]

00:43:36   so I I don't feel like I want that I I [TS]

00:43:39   tried to find something that I think is [TS]

00:43:41   in the middle but like Casey with the [TS]

00:43:43   BBC I'm sure what I think is in the [TS]

00:43:45   middle is not actually in the middle and [TS]

00:43:46   really what I'm seeking is some you know [TS]

00:43:50   some it's not in the execution of the [TS]

00:43:53   journalism but in the choice of what [TS]

00:43:55   they're reporting about right or in the [TS]

00:43:57   choice of like you know what their [TS]

00:44:00   editorials are about and how they [TS]

00:44:02   apportion their coverage because that in [TS]

00:44:03   itself is is a political stance right so [TS]

00:44:07   when I read the Washington Post I feel [TS]

00:44:08   like here's good reporting here they're [TS]

00:44:10   still executing journalism according to [TS]

00:44:11   the old ways but what the Washington [TS]

00:44:13   Post decides to cover is decidedly [TS]

00:44:15   left-leaning in terms of the number of [TS]

00:44:16   stories on topic ABC and D right and I'm [TS]

00:44:21   okay with that but I would still you [TS]

00:44:23   know and I would still say the [TS]

00:44:24   Washington Post and even the New York [TS]

00:44:26   Times are examples of good executions of [TS]

00:44:29   classic journalism [TS]

00:44:30   but I would also agree that both of them [TS]

00:44:32   are quote unquote left-leaning as [TS]

00:44:34   compared to the choices of things and [TS]

00:44:36   headlines that the right leading [TS]

00:44:38   publications choose to cover and they're [TS]

00:44:40   they're a counterbalance right so if [TS]

00:44:44   there was something was really straight [TS]

00:44:45   up the middle I'm not sure that would be [TS]

00:44:48   doing much of a service because [TS]

00:44:50   especially if the two polar polarize [TS]

00:44:52   ends continue to be what they are unless [TS]

00:44:55   everybody at the ends it kind of agrees [TS]

00:44:57   like like the wikipedia wicked tribune [TS]

00:45:00   is like the tiebreaker right and as [TS]

00:45:03   marco pointed out before and we'll keep [TS]

00:45:04   going back to that is impossible in a [TS]

00:45:06   world where we can't agree on the facts [TS]

00:45:08   there is no it's like well we have we [TS]

00:45:11   have you know the this left-leaning [TS]

00:45:13   editorial selection and we have this [TS]

00:45:14   right reading editorial selection but we [TS]

00:45:16   all agree that the facts of water and we [TS]

00:45:17   keep your being right and be like no no [TS]

00:45:19   the right will say we don't agree on [TS]

00:45:21   facts at all and so what function is [TS]

00:45:23   what you tribune even serving there [TS]

00:45:25   unless it starts getting cited by the [TS]

00:45:27   newspapers which would be funny but [TS]

00:45:29   we'll see I mean at this point there are [TS]

00:45:32   people actually arguing whether to let [TS]

00:45:34   people die in our country who were sick [TS]

00:45:36   once because they don't have enough [TS]

00:45:38   money and they should therefore die that [TS]

00:45:41   is that is literally what we are arguing [TS]

00:45:43   about [TS]

00:45:43   I like the better in the 80s when they [TS]

00:45:45   have like sophisticated sophisticated [TS]

00:45:47   ideological arguments but they have [TS]

00:45:49   abandoned those now it's just like why [TS]

00:45:51   should you get to live like good point [TS]

00:45:53   they're evil person why should I get to [TS]

00:45:55   live what right do I have to life or [TS]

00:45:59   liberty or any kind of you know looking [TS]

00:46:01   for happiness that sounds crazy to me [TS]

00:46:03   yeah I mean it was your fault that you [TS]

00:46:06   got you know sick when you were a [TS]

00:46:08   teenager or something so therefore you [TS]

00:46:11   know the penalty for that should [TS]

00:46:12   obviously be death right I should try to [TS]

00:46:14   look like a child living right Marco [TS]

00:46:16   here I think of that yeah I mean look we [TS]

00:46:18   all did it right why can't you yeah you [TS]

00:46:22   know the Jimmy Kimmel son did you guys [TS]

00:46:23   watch that that monologue hoodie days [TS]

00:46:25   ago I heard enough about it that I [TS]

00:46:27   couldn't watch it I so I saw it fly by [TS]

00:46:31   I've been doing a couch to 5k lately and [TS]

00:46:34   and during one of the walking parts I [TS]

00:46:36   was like you know cruising through [TS]

00:46:37   Twitter as I was power walking probably [TS]

00:46:38   look like a moron [TS]

00:46:39   but be that as it may whatever day was [TS]

00:46:41   this this popped in the [TS]

00:46:43   earning onto my you know my world and I [TS]

00:46:47   watched it or listen to it I should say [TS]

00:46:48   I didn't watch any of it I listened to [TS]

00:46:50   it as I was like going between walking [TS]

00:46:51   and running and walking and running and [TS]

00:46:53   basically I was on the verge of balling [TS]

00:46:55   the entire time but if you're one of [TS]

00:46:57   those monsters that thinks that a [TS]

00:46:59   pre-existing condition is something that [TS]

00:47:01   you know just that's enough to [TS]

00:47:03   disqualify you that's cool um you should [TS]

00:47:05   read the ER you should listen to the [TS]

00:47:07   story about Jimmy Kimmel's son who was [TS]

00:47:10   born with a terrible heart defect and [TS]

00:47:12   were it not for some of the protections [TS]

00:47:15   I know we shouldn't be getting this [TS]

00:47:16   political but here we are without some [TS]

00:47:17   of these protections that I know it's [TS]

00:47:19   important you know like it's certain you [TS]

00:47:21   know we as we've talked about like [TS]

00:47:23   certain times politics your other world [TS]

00:47:25   events do bleed into relevance to all [TS]

00:47:28   people and I and I think this is one of [TS]

00:47:30   those times like this is a topic that [TS]

00:47:32   that is among many things so politicized [TS]

00:47:38   more than I think it probably should be [TS]

00:47:41   and I think a lot of that is [TS]

00:47:43   intentionally artificial to hide the [TS]

00:47:46   things that the politicians really want [TS]

00:47:47   to get accomplished which mostly have to [TS]

00:47:48   do with money for themselves and and you [TS]

00:47:51   know their their class of people and [TS]

00:47:52   their associates and lobbyists and [TS]

00:47:53   everything else so there's lots of that [TS]

00:47:55   stuff going on in the background here [TS]

00:47:57   and we're arguing about you know whether [TS]

00:48:00   people who have not been as lucky as [TS]

00:48:02   some of us should go bankrupt and die [TS]

00:48:05   because of that and that's that is [TS]

00:48:08   unconscionable yeah yeah so anyway so [TS]

00:48:11   this this Jimmy Kimmel thing it's a [TS]

00:48:13   little under 15 minutes it's worth every [TS]

00:48:15   second in my personal opinion and in [TS]

00:48:17   like I said I was on the verge of [TS]

00:48:18   balling the entire time I listened to it [TS]

00:48:20   but the short short version is his son [TS]

00:48:22   had a terrible heart defect he is now [TS]

00:48:24   fine and you if some of the changes to [TS]

00:48:31   American healthcare that have been [TS]

00:48:33   proposed pass then his son would never [TS]

00:48:36   be able to have health insurance for the [TS]

00:48:37   rest his life because he was born with a [TS]

00:48:40   problem with his heart so yeah I guess [TS]

00:48:44   the son should have been living in the [TS]

00:48:45   womb better and made better choices in [TS]

00:48:47   utero and then he wouldn't have this [TS]

00:48:49   problem right that's how this works yeah [TS]

00:48:51   they may listen to too much heavy metal [TS]

00:48:52   music who knows I mean and the thing [TS]

00:48:54   like this isn't [TS]

00:48:56   it's not like this is a theoretical it's [TS]

00:48:58   not like you know we think people will [TS]

00:49:00   go bankrupt and die because of this note [TS]

00:49:02   we know because that's how it was before [TS]

00:49:04   the ACA a lot of people went bankrupt [TS]

00:49:07   and died this is not a small thing this [TS]

00:49:11   is not an unknown it's very much known [TS]

00:49:13   we were there it was horrible we tried [TS]

00:49:18   to fix it as best as we could and it [TS]

00:49:20   wasn't perfect but the right fix is not [TS]

00:49:23   to go back to that we've seen it already [TS]

00:49:25   we've tried that I don't know why this [TS]

00:49:28   is even possibly a point of contention [TS]

00:49:30   well I dunno why really but it's not a [TS]

00:49:32   good reason yeah and one of the things [TS]

00:49:34   that um was fascinating by about having [TS]

00:49:37   this tweet that uh that I'd sent in in [TS]

00:49:40   January about the Affordable Care Act [TS]

00:49:43   which will link all this and show notes [TS]

00:49:44   but one of the fascinating things about [TS]

00:49:46   having a tweet that gets retweeted [TS]

00:49:47   16,000 times is that everyone and their [TS]

00:49:50   mother comes and tells you about why [TS]

00:49:51   you're right why you're wrong and in the [TS]

00:49:54   tweet that I had tweeted read opposition [TS]

00:49:56   I've heard to the Affordable Care Act [TS]

00:49:58   number one it costs me money number two [TS]

00:50:00   it's not perfect support for the [TS]

00:50:02   Affordable gif that I've heard for the [TS]

00:50:04   Affordable Care Act number one I would [TS]

00:50:06   have died without the coverage [TS]

00:50:07   guaranteed which is what we're talking [TS]

00:50:09   about and man so many people came out of [TS]

00:50:11   the woodwork and like no you don't get [TS]

00:50:13   it it's about this it's about that one [TS]

00:50:15   person had said I forget how he phrased [TS]

00:50:18   it but something along the lines of I [TS]

00:50:20   shouldn't have to pay for people who eat [TS]

00:50:22   McDonald's all the time to deal with [TS]

00:50:25   their diabetes so okay III live health I [TS]

00:50:29   live a healthy life I shouldn't have to [TS]

00:50:30   pay for all these unhealthy people well [TS]

00:50:33   aren't you a winner but anyway after [TS]

00:50:35   just hundreds of stories about the [TS]

00:50:38   Affordable Care Act more it's great and [TS]

00:50:39   why it's terrible the only good opening [TS]

00:50:42   my estimation anyway the only good [TS]

00:50:44   answer I heard about why the Affordable [TS]

00:50:45   Care Act was bad was that some people [TS]

00:50:47   said well I make enough that I'm priced [TS]

00:50:50   out of all the subsidy tiers and I'm way [TS]

00:50:52   oversimplifying here but I I make enough [TS]

00:50:54   money that I'm priced out of all the [TS]

00:50:55   like super cheap tiers but I don't [TS]

00:50:57   really make enough to afford like the [TS]

00:51:00   the whatever the opposite scenario was I [TS]

00:51:03   forget what it what it is but basically [TS]

00:51:04   they were in this like- this really [TS]

00:51:07   terrible middle-of-the-road [TS]

00:51:08   here's an example this is somebody that [TS]

00:51:10   tweeted I pay more than I can afford for [TS]

00:51:12   insurance with the deductible too high [TS]

00:51:14   to matter it's that's pretty crummy and [TS]

00:51:17   that should get fixed but everything [TS]

00:51:19   else was like just people who basically [TS]

00:51:21   are looking for their fellow man to die [TS]

00:51:23   because they didn't want to pay for them [TS]

00:51:24   to live and that's just I don't [TS]

00:51:26   understand how this is a question how is [TS]

00:51:28   this a question right now I don't get it [TS]

00:51:30   that's the thing is like like there's [TS]

00:51:32   your that that sentiment of like why [TS]

00:51:34   should I pay for the people who aren't [TS]

00:51:36   healthy like that is such a toxic way to [TS]

00:51:40   think because like okay well let's [TS]

00:51:42   follow that through if that's what you [TS]

00:51:44   think that you don't that you shouldn't [TS]

00:51:46   have to pay for people who are you know [TS]

00:51:47   who do things that you don't like or [TS]

00:51:49   whatever and that makes them unhealthy [TS]

00:51:50   even though a lot of times they can't [TS]

00:51:52   help what has made them unhealthy but [TS]

00:51:53   anyway suppose you don't want to pay for [TS]

00:51:55   it okay [TS]

00:51:56   what should the penalty be for someone [TS]

00:51:59   who does this thing you don't like who [TS]

00:52:00   can't afford it is that punishable by [TS]

00:52:02   death is is that an appropriate you know [TS]

00:52:05   penalty like literally like that's like [TS]

00:52:07   is that is that your actual position [TS]

00:52:09   like if that's what you think don't ask [TS]

00:52:11   questions you don't want the answers to [TS]

00:52:12   is they would say yes of course they're [TS]

00:52:14   getting what they deserve that's exactly [TS]

00:52:15   what they say I mean if these people [TS]

00:52:17   actually think that way I think they [TS]

00:52:19   should own that I think they should come [TS]

00:52:20   right out and say yes I think all these [TS]

00:52:22   people who who can't afford the health [TS]

00:52:24   care should die like if that's what they [TS]

00:52:26   think let's let's bring that discussion [TS]

00:52:28   let's see how that discussion goes in [TS]

00:52:30   the hotel we have people in Congress [TS]

00:52:31   owning that at this point that's true I [TS]

00:52:33   don't think it's that a position people [TS]

00:52:34   are shrinking from and I mean but and [TS]

00:52:36   the thing is like you can apply that [TS]

00:52:38   kind of thinking you know I should I [TS]

00:52:40   have to pay that to everything that [TS]

00:52:42   government provides like that's kind of [TS]

00:52:43   the whole nature of government like it [TS]

00:52:45   provides a bunch of services with with [TS]

00:52:47   people's tax money most of which you [TS]

00:52:50   know like any given person probably [TS]

00:52:53   doesn't directly use a lot of these [TS]

00:52:55   services but they've also benefit from [TS]

00:52:57   lots of other ones and it's a different [TS]

00:52:59   pool for each person you know and that's [TS]

00:53:01   the role of government like why should I [TS]

00:53:04   pay for a giant military that starts [TS]

00:53:06   wars I don't want well that's just part [TS]

00:53:08   of the government like its it it's part [TS]

00:53:11   of our system we vote for things and [TS]

00:53:13   that you know this is what happens and [TS]

00:53:14   and sometimes our votes even are counted [TS]

00:53:16   properly and equally and I just this [TS]

00:53:21   this is so toxic and I [TS]

00:53:22   I wish I I wish I knew what it was that [TS]

00:53:26   made people so hateful everybody else [TS]

00:53:27   really like maybe it's just because [TS]

00:53:30   everyone else listens to way less fish [TS]

00:53:32   than I do but I just cannot possibly [TS]

00:53:36   understand what it is that makes someone [TS]

00:53:39   think to themselves oh I would those [TS]

00:53:42   people don't deserve to live [TS]

00:53:43   like I I don't I don't get that at all [TS]

00:53:46   and that's what makes me really sad that [TS]

00:53:49   that that is such a prevalent attitude [TS]

00:53:51   as well as they hearkened back to the [TS]

00:53:54   the days of the 80s when it was commonly [TS]

00:53:57   accepted that the goal was to make [TS]

00:53:59   people healthier and the only argument [TS]

00:54:01   was about how best to do that the [TS]

00:54:04   free-market can do it know the [TS]

00:54:05   government could do it know the [TS]

00:54:06   government is inefficient and bloated [TS]

00:54:07   and we will have a better system of [TS]

00:54:09   without competition and bla bla black [TS]

00:54:10   that was levelled the argument that was [TS]

00:54:12   going on right and these days that is [TS]

00:54:15   not like the level the argument that the [TS]

00:54:18   accepted premises of trying to get [TS]

00:54:19   everybody as healthy as possible like [TS]

00:54:22   people barely on the right give you know [TS]

00:54:25   barely make faints in that direction [TS]

00:54:27   like they're not even interested in [TS]

00:54:29   saying you don't understand this way [TS]

00:54:31   people will actually be healthier fewer [TS]

00:54:34   people will die like everyone will you [TS]

00:54:37   know then that's they'll they'll say [TS]

00:54:39   that at the broad level but they will [TS]

00:54:41   not make they will not actually show how [TS]

00:54:43   the numbers add up they will not show [TS]

00:54:44   their math I will not say look here's [TS]

00:54:46   what we say even if it's just bs [TS]

00:54:47   predictions BS sort of trickle down any [TS]

00:54:49   predictions if we allow this to happen [TS]

00:54:50   and this competition happens here and [TS]

00:54:52   there what's going to happen you know [TS]

00:54:54   let me show you my BS model with BS [TS]

00:54:56   predictions that are going to do that [TS]

00:54:57   feel like we don't need to do that we [TS]

00:54:59   just wave our hands and you know pick [TS]

00:55:03   one person against the other and get [TS]

00:55:07   boat do what it takes to get this past [TS]

00:55:09   and then you know then we end up with [TS]

00:55:12   what we end up with I miss I miss the [TS]

00:55:15   the pretend intellectual debates is what [TS]

00:55:17   I'm saying [TS]

00:55:17   I just I don't get it just makes me so [TS]

00:55:21   sad like it's it's just I don't [TS]

00:55:23   understand how any intelligent human [TS]

00:55:27   being with three brain cells to rub [TS]

00:55:28   together can think that the Affordable [TS]

00:55:30   Care Act is bad I just don't get it like [TS]

00:55:32   oh it's not perfect no it is bad I mean [TS]

00:55:34   it's but but it's you know it's like [TS]

00:55:36   what should we move to something worse [TS]

00:55:38   I'm gonna say no we say no we shouldn't [TS]

00:55:40   do that right the whole like you know [TS]

00:55:41   perfect enemy of the good thing like you [TS]

00:55:43   know healthcare is is a hard problem [TS]

00:55:45   it's really expensive to provide health [TS]

00:55:49   care for people that has to be paid for [TS]

00:55:51   somehow whether you're you know whether [TS]

00:55:53   it's people paying themselves or whether [TS]

00:55:55   it's government single-payer to kind of [TS]

00:55:57   things or some kind of weird thing [TS]

00:55:58   between like what we have now like it's [TS]

00:56:00   just it's a hard problem it's a really [TS]

00:56:02   hard problem but that you know the ACA [TS]

00:56:06   took this really hard problem that was [TS]

00:56:08   really in a bad state before and made it [TS]

00:56:11   less bad and yeah the cost went up we [TS]

00:56:14   are all paying more now for worse [TS]

00:56:16   coverage but that was happening anyway [TS]

00:56:18   anybody who was actually paying for [TS]

00:56:21   their coverage before the ACA saw that [TS]

00:56:23   trend already in fact with the ACA I'm [TS]

00:56:26   I'm still now paying less than what I [TS]

00:56:29   paid the year before the ACA went to [TS]

00:56:30   effect and the coverage isn't as good [TS]

00:56:33   but I'm actually still netting less per [TS]

00:56:35   year expenditure for it and also I'm Way [TS]

00:56:38   less worried about some crazy hitting [TS]

00:56:41   some crazy limit or you know like a [TS]

00:56:43   lifetime limit or present conditions all [TS]

00:56:45   of a sudden excluding everyone from [TS]

00:56:47   everything like this is a better system [TS]

00:56:49   and it still sucks and that's why people [TS]

00:56:51   are so mad because it is still really [TS]

00:56:53   expensive and coverage still does really [TS]

00:56:55   suck and we all have high deductibles [TS]

00:56:57   now and we all have like having to go [TS]

00:56:59   through crappy mail-order pharmacies for [TS]

00:57:00   our prescriptions but that was happening [TS]

00:57:02   before whatever the Republicans get [TS]

00:57:05   through whatever they do to this I [TS]

00:57:07   guarantee you your coverage is still [TS]

00:57:10   going to be really expensive and you're [TS]

00:57:12   still gonna have to deal with BS from [TS]

00:57:14   mail-order pharmacies and having to fill [TS]

00:57:16   all these different referrals [TS]

00:57:17   everything's that's all going to still [TS]

00:57:19   be there and your costs are going to go [TS]

00:57:21   up the year after that and the year [TS]

00:57:23   after that and every year after that [TS]

00:57:24   your costs are going to keep going up [TS]

00:57:26   and up and up this whatever they pass is [TS]

00:57:29   not going to solve that it can't what [TS]

00:57:32   they all they're trying to do is go back [TS]

00:57:34   to the way it was before the ACA which [TS]

00:57:37   sucked [TS]

00:57:38   and yet the ACA sucks but that sucked [TS]

00:57:41   way more before and that's what they [TS]

00:57:44   want to go back to it is really hard to [TS]

00:57:46   talk with us because literally thousands [TS]

00:57:49   of additional peope [TS]

00:57:50   we'll die every year because of this [TS]

00:57:51   like this is not a small thing this [TS]

00:57:54   isn't just like oh I'll have an extra [TS]

00:57:56   200 bucks a month it's as like no [TS]

00:57:58   thousands of people will die and like [TS]

00:58:00   you know you look at things that change [TS]

00:58:02   in our country policies laws liberties [TS]

00:58:05   that change in our country as a result [TS]

00:58:08   of say September 11th lots of things [TS]

00:58:11   change because of that and then if you [TS]

00:58:13   look at like how many people are dying [TS]

00:58:15   unnecessarily because of not having [TS]

00:58:18   proper health care it is such a massive [TS]

00:58:21   problem and so many people go bankrupt [TS]

00:58:25   or die or both unnecessarily it is [TS]

00:58:29   unconscionable to me that we that we [TS]

00:58:32   still continue to try to go back to the [TS]

00:58:35   way it was because it was worse and I [TS]

00:58:38   and again like I know I know why people [TS]

00:58:40   are so mad at the ACA because they see [TS]

00:58:42   those bills coming in every month for [TS]

00:58:44   the it for the healthcare and they'll oh [TS]

00:58:45   yeah my premium keeps going up my [TS]

00:58:47   coverage keep getting worse yeah but [TS]

00:58:48   that was happening before this made it a [TS]

00:58:51   little bit less crappy for everybody and [TS]

00:58:53   now we're going to go back to that I [TS]

00:58:55   just it's it's awful it's a cut off your [TS]

00:59:00   nose in spite to spite your face [TS]

00:59:01   situation and after tomorrow you won't [TS]

00:59:04   be able to get your nose put back on and [TS]

00:59:06   then it'll be a pre-existing condition [TS]

00:59:07   if you try to switch coverage so you're [TS]

00:59:09   just screwed the whole way down mm-hmm [TS]

00:59:11   but don't worry guys at least the [TS]

00:59:12   figurehead of the new system won't be a [TS]

00:59:14   black guy so it's all good now yeah or [TS]

00:59:17   woman heaven forbid we are sponsored [TS]

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01:01:03   releases the Eco look here again I don't [TS]

01:01:06   know a lot about it except in this case [TS]

01:01:08   it's because I really don't care but [TS]

01:01:10   apparently it's an echo with a camera [TS]

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01:01:15   not or something along those lines so [TS]

01:01:18   what's going on here and are we [TS]

01:01:20   enthusiastic about it John you get him [TS]

01:01:23   one I don't think I'm gonna get one of [TS]

01:01:26   these but I actually am because I'm [TS]

01:01:28   enthusiastic about it but I think what [TS]

01:01:30   it is doing is a natural thing to do and [TS]

01:01:33   I think we're going to see more of it [TS]

01:01:34   not less like in the same way that I was [TS]

01:01:37   strangely or at least not uniquely but [TS]

01:01:41   it was I think I had more enthusiasm for [TS]

01:01:43   the Amazon echo when they first showed [TS]

01:01:44   that little ad with the cylinder more [TS]

01:01:46   more optimism let's say that this could [TS]

01:01:50   potentially be a cool useful thing then [TS]

01:01:53   most people who saw up is they were like [TS]

01:01:54   this looks dumb it's never going to work [TS]

01:01:55   and I had the same kind of this looks [TS]

01:01:57   dumb and it's not going to work as well [TS]

01:01:58   as they show a working reaction to but I [TS]

01:02:01   was also kind of like this class of [TS]

01:02:04   device seems like it could be a thing [TS]

01:02:06   and now I see this which is like [TS]

01:02:08   essentially a little camera so I imagine [TS]

01:02:10   combining with [TS]

01:02:11   with a camera it's a camera that you can [TS]

01:02:13   talk to that a some awareness of who and [TS]

01:02:15   where you are and it has some specific [TS]

01:02:18   functionality having to do with fashion [TS]

01:02:19   and Amazon trying to sell you clothes [TS]

01:02:21   and yadda-yadda like I don't think the [TS]

01:02:22   details matter that much except that [TS]

01:02:25   this is like because it's Amazon and [TS]

01:02:27   because they have the pedigree of the [TS]

01:02:28   echo that this product and because [TS]

01:02:30   they're going to push it like crazy on [TS]

01:02:31   their website that this product has as [TS]

01:02:33   good a chance as any to be the first [TS]

01:02:35   product to get any kind of traction in [TS]

01:02:38   this category the category is simply a [TS]

01:02:41   computer that you can talk to that also [TS]

01:02:44   can see you write the Damelin echo and [TS]

01:02:48   the dot and and Google home and all [TS]

01:02:50   those things are like a computer that [TS]

01:02:51   you can talk to a computer that you can [TS]

01:02:53   talk to they can also see you natural [TS]

01:02:56   evolution the number of things that you [TS]

01:02:57   can do with that ability with all of our [TS]

01:03:00   even just current technology for like [TS]

01:03:03   facial recognition and identifying [TS]

01:03:05   things in scenes and you know the Kinect [TS]

01:03:09   Xbox style understanding gestures and [TS]

01:03:12   your position in the position of your [TS]

01:03:14   body and stuff like that that is a rich [TS]

01:03:18   vein of interaction with computing [TS]

01:03:21   devices that we should begin to tap and [TS]

01:03:24   if it has to be a weird fashion camera [TS]

01:03:26   that spies on you and uploads pictures [TS]

01:03:27   of you to Amazon to sell you more [TS]

01:03:29   clothes I mean the cylinder had to ended [TS]

01:03:32   up being in Amazon things let you buy [TS]

01:03:33   paper towels by talking to it like [TS]

01:03:35   things come in weird packages right like [TS]

01:03:38   man I suppose it beats the old way which [TS]

01:03:40   is everything had to be attached to porn [TS]

01:03:42   in some way to get an interaction all [TS]

01:03:44   this potentially could be as well but I [TS]

01:03:46   put it I am enthusiastic about the [TS]

01:03:49   future of devices that are computers [TS]

01:03:52   that can hear and see you and so I think [TS]

01:03:54   there needs to be more of these things [TS]

01:03:56   and they need to get better and they [TS]

01:04:00   will be cool and make our lives better [TS]

01:04:01   provided we can avoid all the pitfalls [TS]

01:04:03   that which is basically people are [TS]

01:04:05   talking about the echo all the privacy [TS]

01:04:07   and security and you know just general [TS]

01:04:10   creepiness implications but I think I [TS]

01:04:12   think the foundation is sound so I wish [TS]

01:04:14   them I wish them some success that I [TS]

01:04:15   hope they learn from it and branch out [TS]

01:04:17   I'm just now watching the video quickly [TS]

01:04:20   I don't wait you know with no audio I'm [TS]

01:04:22   just looking at the video as you're [TS]

01:04:23   talking and [TS]

01:04:24   and I think I would have noticed but [TS]

01:04:28   certainly was called out in one of the [TS]

01:04:29   podcast I was into this week that there [TS]

01:04:32   isn't a man in this video until like the [TS]

01:04:35   last ten seconds which is actually [TS]

01:04:37   pretty cool that they're you know [TS]

01:04:38   pitching this directly women and and I [TS]

01:04:40   think you're it stands to reason that [TS]

01:04:43   your average woman would be more [TS]

01:04:45   enthusiastic about this in your average [TS]

01:04:46   man obviously that's not a universal [TS]

01:04:48   truth but I think that's kind of cool [TS]

01:04:51   and I personally am NOT in love be [TS]

01:04:55   partially because I haven't really lived [TS]

01:04:56   it I'm not in love with the idea of an [TS]

01:04:58   echo in general let alone an echo with [TS]

01:05:00   eyes but again just because I'm not [TS]

01:05:03   really gaga for it doesn't mean it's not [TS]

01:05:05   a good idea not a good device it's just [TS]

01:05:07   it's not something that I feel like I [TS]

01:05:08   need right now [TS]

01:05:09   Marco so first of all there was a [TS]

01:05:12   there's a great discussion about this [TS]

01:05:14   especially by Lisa Schmeisser who knows [TS]

01:05:16   a lot about retail on the first episode [TS]

01:05:19   of the new reel a podcast called [TS]

01:05:20   download this is kind of this is like [TS]

01:05:23   Jason Snell's kind of new hosted show [TS]

01:05:26   almost like an expanded clockwise but [TS]

01:05:29   more broad and even more produced and [TS]

01:05:32   like even more wide audience [TS]

01:05:34   I'm guessing over time this might become [TS]

01:05:36   the biggest show on relay and one of the [TS]

01:05:38   biggest tech shows period so I would [TS]

01:05:40   suggest getting on the ground floor and [TS]

01:05:41   going to subscribe to download now at [TS]

01:05:44   relay to FM slash download anyway they [TS]

01:05:47   didn't pay me or even asked me to say [TS]

01:05:48   that but I think you should because [TS]

01:05:49   that's really good anyway great [TS]

01:05:52   discussion on episode one by Lisa miser [TS]

01:05:54   especially about this from the retail [TS]

01:05:56   point of view from a lot of good [TS]

01:05:57   knowledge that we don't personally have [TS]

01:05:59   but a grilling I've really enjoyed [TS]

01:06:01   anyway I'm with you you know obviously [TS]

01:06:03   this is being marketed heavily towards [TS]

01:06:06   women and it's hard for me to fully [TS]

01:06:08   understand it as both a man and also a [TS]

01:06:11   man who doesn't care at all about his [TS]

01:06:13   own personal fashion and so it's on your [TS]

01:06:16   wrist except on my wrist I care very [TS]

01:06:17   much about that but I don't need a [TS]

01:06:19   camera tell me which watch to wear [TS]

01:06:20   everyday I just put on the one I'm done [TS]

01:06:22   I feel like wearing and I enjoy it but [TS]

01:06:24   you know that's if there was one that [TS]

01:06:27   took a wrist shot for me every day and [TS]

01:06:29   compete like and gave me like a wrist [TS]

01:06:32   book of shots of how I looked over time [TS]

01:06:37   maybe that might [TS]

01:06:39   do something I don't know it it bottom [TS]

01:06:42   line this isn't for me and so I I don't [TS]

01:06:43   want to try to I don't want to make [TS]

01:06:45   large proclamations about it either way [TS]

01:06:48   because it's fundamentally a product I [TS]

01:06:50   understand and this made it very clear [TS]

01:06:51   to me by the reactions on Twitter when [TS]

01:06:55   this was announced it was [TS]

01:06:56   extraordinarily polarized tech dudes [TS]

01:07:00   like us largely said largely made fun of [TS]

01:07:04   it and said why would anybody want to [TS]

01:07:05   buy this oh my god Amazon is nuts [TS]

01:07:07   and a lot of people who were not tech [TS]

01:07:10   dudes who you know I would venture to [TS]

01:07:13   guess that most of us myself included [TS]

01:07:15   probably where the basic you know [TS]

01:07:18   t-shirt every day that we don't have to [TS]

01:07:20   wear something for work you know t-shirt [TS]

01:07:22   and jeans maybe that's kind of the [TS]

01:07:24   uniform of tech a hoodie if it's cool or [TS]

01:07:26   if you live in San Francisco you know [TS]

01:07:28   that's that's kind of uniform of like [TS]

01:07:29   tech geeks so all of us look at this and [TS]

01:07:31   said this is crazy why we let Amazon put [TS]

01:07:34   a camera on her bedroom to do this thing [TS]

01:07:35   we don't care about but people who were [TS]

01:07:38   really into clothing and fashion really [TS]

01:07:42   enjoyed this the reaction from most of [TS]

01:07:46   them and this wasn't all women I I [TS]

01:07:47   should say I'm trying I'm very carefully [TS]

01:07:51   you know trying to dance around the the [TS]

01:07:53   women angle here but I don't want to be [TS]

01:07:54   sexist but it is very clear that this is [TS]

01:07:56   how this is being targeted and and I did [TS]

01:07:58   see very different reactions from most [TS]

01:08:01   women compared to most men in my [TS]

01:08:03   timeline but I really don't want to say [TS]

01:08:05   anything more than that because I don't [TS]

01:08:07   know I'm talking about it is not at all [TS]

01:08:09   for me but I think this will probably [TS]

01:08:13   succeed you know when when the original [TS]

01:08:14   echo cylinder first came out we all made [TS]

01:08:17   fun of it because first of all the the [TS]

01:08:19   way it was presented the video it was [TS]

01:08:21   presented and was awful I mean it was it [TS]

01:08:23   was comical it was comically bad and it [TS]

01:08:25   was pretty soon after the fire phone and [TS]

01:08:27   so we were pretty sure like you know [TS]

01:08:29   yeah Amazon really is nuts but their [TS]

01:08:31   hardware they don't know what they're [TS]

01:08:31   doing it did indeed sound crazy that [TS]

01:08:35   you're going to put a microphone in your [TS]

01:08:36   house that listens all the time and is [TS]

01:08:38   owned by Amazon really but then it only [TS]

01:08:41   takes like one friend to get it and for [TS]

01:08:43   you to be at their house for a little [TS]

01:08:44   while and and you know with they're [TS]

01:08:47   using it to kind of see like oh actually [TS]

01:08:49   that's pretty cool and so it is [TS]

01:08:52   I think we're like it it does sound kind [TS]

01:08:55   of ridiculous up front but it might [TS]

01:08:58   succeed anyway and I think all you need [TS]

01:09:01   to know to know whether it will succeed [TS]

01:09:03   or not is like are there is there any [TS]

01:09:05   group people right now right up front [TS]

01:09:07   who are saying oh my god yes give me [TS]

01:09:08   that right now and the answer from what [TS]

01:09:11   I can see is yes my wife wants one I [TS]

01:09:13   know a bunch of uh people on Twitter who [TS]

01:09:15   said they wanted one like again it isn't [TS]

01:09:17   for everyone but it is probably [TS]

01:09:19   definitely for some people and so even [TS]

01:09:22   though it seems creepy you know to me as [TS]

01:09:24   a nerd it's going to be a thing and I [TS]

01:09:27   think I I would I would not discount [TS]

01:09:30   Amazon in this I would not assume [TS]

01:09:32   they're crazy I will occasionally make [TS]

01:09:35   funny tweets about it but but I do think [TS]

01:09:37   they're probably going to sell this and [TS]

01:09:38   it's probably going to become part of a [TS]

01:09:40   bigger thing and it's probably going to [TS]

01:09:42   have its own little weird oddities just [TS]

01:09:44   like every Amazon product that always [TS]

01:09:46   does but I think it'll work long-term I [TS]

01:09:48   think you need to have any weird [TS]

01:09:50   speculation and say like oh it will be [TS]

01:09:52   for some people because like it is so [TS]

01:09:54   right down the middle of things that we [TS]

01:09:55   know people already like to do in [TS]

01:09:57   massive numbers people like to take [TS]

01:09:59   pictures of themselves the word selfie [TS]

01:10:01   is known to far and wide for a very good [TS]

01:10:03   reason if you look at how people use [TS]

01:10:05   social media and how many times they're [TS]

01:10:07   taking pictures of themselves or what [TS]

01:10:09   they're wearing very often on a regular [TS]

01:10:12   basis right this is merely an automation [TS]

01:10:15   of that in the same way that the Amazon [TS]

01:10:18   echo is an automation of all the things [TS]

01:10:19   you have other ways to do like this is [TS]

01:10:21   not speculative that people might want [TS]

01:10:24   to take pictures of themselves with [TS]

01:10:25   their outfits all right this is just you [TS]

01:10:27   know so that there's so clearly a [TS]

01:10:29   marketing the only question is does does [TS]

01:10:32   this product automate it in a way that [TS]

01:10:34   actually makes it easier to do a thing [TS]

01:10:36   that we know people want to do we know [TS]

01:10:38   they want to do it they do it like crazy [TS]

01:10:39   now manually the hard way having [TS]

01:10:43   something that's you know this again as [TS]

01:10:45   the first application of a computer that [TS]

01:10:47   can also see you right having something [TS]

01:10:49   that can do that with the smarts that we [TS]

01:10:51   have developed for cameras to find where [TS]

01:10:53   the heck you are and you know take good [TS]

01:10:55   pictures of you it is easier for a [TS]

01:10:57   computer to do that than to you to try [TS]

01:10:59   to do it yourself with a mirror holding [TS]

01:11:01   out your phone or doing other sorts of [TS]

01:11:02   stuff like that especially if we come it [TS]

01:11:04   becomes in the same way that the [TS]

01:11:05   Oh does like this becomes so easy just [TS]

01:11:08   becomes part of my routine right [TS]

01:11:10   the people who meticulously catalog [TS]

01:11:13   their outfits each day that they're [TS]

01:11:14   proud of their outfits that is a big [TS]

01:11:16   effort that most people don't want to go [TS]

01:11:18   through but it's like Marco said if [TS]

01:11:19   Marco didn't have to think about but [TS]

01:11:20   just went through his day and put on his [TS]

01:11:22   watch and at some point his his you know [TS]

01:11:24   some point 20 years in the future when [TS]

01:11:26   you know his grandchildren are visiting [TS]

01:11:28   and his super duper fancy smart home he [TS]

01:11:30   just wakes up in the morning picks up [TS]

01:11:32   watching wants to wear puts it on and [TS]

01:11:34   then at the end of the month can view [TS]

01:11:35   beautiful InFocus close-up shots of [TS]

01:11:37   every watch he wore on every day how did [TS]

01:11:39   those pictures happen because the [TS]

01:11:41   cameras that are all over the house [TS]

01:11:43   invisibly can always find him and take [TS]

01:11:45   these amazing photographs in low-light [TS]

01:11:47   perfect focus and he doesn't have to [TS]

01:11:49   pose for them and he doesn't have to do [TS]

01:11:51   anything in the same way that the magic [TS]

01:11:53   checkout counter you know barcode [TS]

01:11:56   scanner just bring the food by and you [TS]

01:11:58   kind of twirl it and you know spin it by [TS]

01:12:00   the little scanner and the little lasers [TS]

01:12:01   will find it right in that same type of [TS]

01:12:03   technology if you had a bunch of smart [TS]

01:12:06   cameras in your house that eventually [TS]

01:12:08   will be so cheap and so good that they [TS]

01:12:11   will be able to do this without you [TS]

01:12:12   having to stand in a certain place or do [TS]

01:12:14   a certain thing that is the future that [TS]

01:12:15   you know that this coming to the [TS]

01:12:17   questions about it are all legit [TS]

01:12:18   questions in terms of who owns this data [TS]

01:12:20   is it okay for Amazon for us upload it [TS]

01:12:23   to Amazon and for them to keep it [TS]

01:12:24   forever and how is this funded if the [TS]

01:12:27   hardware isn't profitable itself is [TS]

01:12:29   entirely funded about as a way to sell [TS]

01:12:30   us you know clothes or whatever and one [TS]

01:12:35   of the security implications and how [TS]

01:12:36   hackable these all these are going to be [TS]

01:12:38   there's going to be terrible disasters [TS]

01:12:39   in all these areas but there is no [TS]

01:12:41   denying that the amount of computery [TS]

01:12:44   things in our house will only increase [TS]

01:12:45   with time and that it is kind of a [TS]

01:12:47   ratcheting mechanism and that this first [TS]

01:12:50   one aiming you know aiming to be a [TS]

01:12:53   mechanization of a thing that we know [TS]

01:12:55   people already love to do is very smart [TS]

01:12:57   and builds on their their echo stuff as [TS]

01:13:00   for the things I talk about in terms of [TS]

01:13:02   Technology and privacy [TS]

01:13:03   I think Amazon is probably terrible in [TS]

01:13:05   them I think the security is probably [TS]

01:13:06   crap I think their privacy probably [TS]

01:13:08   policy is probably terrible I think if [TS]

01:13:09   they're hacks people are going to get [TS]

01:13:10   tons of data and people will regret [TS]

01:13:12   getting these things if that ever [TS]

01:13:13   happens if it doesn't Amazon its lucky [TS]

01:13:15   if it does we all just regret it [TS]

01:13:17   together as people [TS]

01:13:19   giant archive of photographs and audio [TS]

01:13:21   of you over many many years they use [TS]

01:13:23   Amazon devices but even Marco famously [TS]

01:13:25   paranoid is willing to take that trade [TS]

01:13:27   because they do make his life better [TS]

01:13:28   enough that he's you know that he's [TS]

01:13:31   willing to take that risk and most [TS]

01:13:33   people are not as paranoid as Marco and [TS]

01:13:34   won't think twice about this if it [TS]

01:13:36   actually delivers on what it what it is [TS]

01:13:38   intending to do we are sponsored this [TS]

01:13:41   week by betterment investing made better [TS]

01:13:44   go to better mint.com slash ATP to learn [TS]

01:13:47   more betterment is a smarter way to [TS]

01:13:49   invest your money that by providing [TS]

01:13:50   investing advice through smart [TS]

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01:13:54   advisers they've changed the industry [TS]

01:13:56   but is in the same strategy the [TS]

01:13:58   financial advisors use with clients who [TS]

01:14:00   have millions of dollars but now they're [TS]

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01:14:17   along the way because if you do the math [TS]

01:14:19   typical investment fees and costs really [TS]

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01:14:24   a fraction of the cost of other [TS]

01:14:25   financial services and betterment so [TS]

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01:14:33   before I never have before you can log [TS]

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01:14:47   and investing involves risk to learn [TS]

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01:14:53   that's betterment comm slash ATP [TS]

01:14:56   betterment investing made better okay so [TS]

01:15:02   in the last what was it 24-48 hours as [TS]

01:15:04   we record Microsoft has released a [TS]

01:15:07   basically a surface book err they've [TS]

01:15:10   taken what basically all of us wanted [TS]

01:15:13   from the new MacBook Air that we have [TS]

01:15:15   yet to receive and made a surface laptop [TS]

01:15:19   out of it I love that you assume that [TS]

01:15:21   that the that a new MacBook Air is [TS]

01:15:23   something that is coming they just isn't [TS]

01:15:24   here yet [TS]

01:15:25   well fair fair but um but yes so be the [TS]

01:15:29   thing that we all wanted which would be [TS]

01:15:30   effectively be a new [TS]

01:15:31   Retina MacBook Air with better internals [TS]

01:15:34   and better ports and whatnot Microsoft [TS]

01:15:36   seems to have just released it so I [TS]

01:15:39   think they're pre-ordering soon if [TS]

01:15:41   memory serves it's it's as we record I [TS]

01:15:44   don't believe it's available for [TS]

01:15:45   purchase but the very little bit that [TS]

01:15:48   I've looked into it it looked really [TS]

01:15:49   nice yeah I mean I think it's really [TS]

01:15:51   interesting first of all that the [TS]

01:15:54   Microsoft Surface branding was [TS]

01:15:56   originally for well first it was for the [TS]

01:15:58   giant table and then it went away for a [TS]

01:16:00   few years and then then it came back as [TS]

01:16:02   this like you know consumer you know [TS]

01:16:04   convertible laptop tablet thing and then [TS]

01:16:07   it slowly became like closer to regular [TS]

01:16:11   computers and now there goes like all [TS]

01:16:13   right screw it here's just a laptop and [TS]

01:16:15   we're gonna call the surface laptop and [TS]

01:16:17   like they get they start they did all [TS]

01:16:19   these crazy things and they kind of [TS]

01:16:21   slowly work their way back to what most [TS]

01:16:23   people actually want in their computer [TS]

01:16:24   which is a traditional-style laptop and [TS]

01:16:26   it does have a touch screen so bonus [TS]

01:16:28   points for that I do want also point out [TS]

01:16:30   like we Apple people you know we keep [TS]

01:16:33   following the company line of like you [TS]

01:16:34   know we shouldn't have touch screens on [TS]

01:16:36   computers nobody wants that but [TS]

01:16:38   meanwhile touch screens have become very [TS]

01:16:40   prevalent on on PCs and most people who [TS]

01:16:45   use them seem to kind of like them like [TS]

01:16:48   people seem you know they might not use [TS]

01:16:50   them all the time or they might not use [TS]

01:16:52   them for a lot of things but people who [TS]

01:16:54   use them seem to enjoy them largely so [TS]

01:16:57   so I do think that is something that [TS]

01:16:59   should not be totally discounted as a [TS]

01:17:00   thing and maybe maybe apples right but [TS]

01:17:03   it should they're sure to seem like a [TS]

01:17:05   lot of people are using them anyway but [TS]

01:17:08   I also think it's interesting that you [TS]

01:17:10   know when when the original you know [TS]

01:17:12   surface not the table but like that the [TS]

01:17:14   very first like weird OBE is our tablet [TS]

01:17:15   laptop thing when that first came out it [TS]

01:17:18   really seemed like this really like you [TS]

01:17:20   know niche low volume low selling device [TS]

01:17:23   but over time Microsoft has been [TS]

01:17:26   persistent and it has NS just kept [TS]

01:17:27   iterating and iterating and now services [TS]

01:17:30   are actually pretty common like I said I [TS]

01:17:31   see them out all the time and I don't [TS]

01:17:33   know if I just don't recognize most [TS]

01:17:35   other PC hardware so like I don't maybe [TS]

01:17:36   I don't like visually like notice that [TS]

01:17:38   are counted and like whenever whenever [TS]

01:17:40   like people on Twitter do like coffee [TS]

01:17:41   shop surveys [TS]

01:17:42   I like grouper likes to do sometimes or [TS]

01:17:44   like I see some other people doing it [TS]

01:17:45   well [TS]

01:17:45   like alright number of like you know [TS]

01:17:47   MacBooks in this coffee shop at 10 a [TS]

01:17:49   number of vino surfaces 3 number of [TS]

01:17:51   iPads to stuff like that surfaces tend [TS]

01:17:54   to be represented pretty well just like [TS]

01:17:56   anecdotally out in the world [TS]

01:17:57   there seem to be a lot of them in coffee [TS]

01:17:59   shops and in airports and on planes and [TS]

01:18:01   like on commuter trains stuff like that [TS]

01:18:03   like so I do think that it is worth I [TS]

01:18:08   hope Apple is noticing and they probably [TS]

01:18:10   are they're smart over there I hope they [TS]

01:18:12   are noticing that like these think these [TS]

01:18:14   experiments that Microsoft has been [TS]

01:18:16   doing with the surface over time seemed [TS]

01:18:18   outlandish at first not only are they [TS]

01:18:21   getting less outlandish over time as we [TS]

01:18:23   all realize that some of those things [TS]

01:18:24   are good ideas but also they're getting [TS]

01:18:26   pretty popular and so I think I think [TS]

01:18:28   that is that is something that that that [TS]

01:18:30   we should not be ruling out and you know [TS]

01:18:33   some things are popular they're terrible [TS]

01:18:35   I mean Dave Matthews Band right but but [TS]

01:18:38   it their popularity I think should not [TS]

01:18:40   be overlooked [TS]

01:18:41   and and we should not assume that [TS]

01:18:43   everything about the surface and its [TS]

01:18:45   line of products is Microsoft being [TS]

01:18:47   weird and wacky because a lot of it's [TS]

01:18:48   sticking so that's that is worth [TS]

01:18:50   pointing out so this particular computer [TS]

01:18:52   it looks pretty compelling for a lot of [TS]

01:18:55   people I mean in a lot of ways it specs [TS]

01:18:59   or lower end than the MacBook Air it can [TS]

01:19:02   be it although it is much newer the [TS]

01:19:04   MacBook Air still has I think like three [TS]

01:19:06   generations old now [TS]

01:19:07   parts something like that and and this I [TS]

01:19:10   believe the Microsoft Surface laptop is [TS]

01:19:13   KB Lake so it's like really current if [TS]

01:19:15   the macbook air had skylake or KB Lake [TS]

01:19:18   it would get way better battery life and [TS]

01:19:21   it's already amazing which means they [TS]

01:19:23   could do some pretty cool things but [TS]

01:19:24   they're not but the other they they made [TS]

01:19:27   the MacBook Pro instead and we'll talk [TS]

01:19:28   about that in a minute like the escape [TS]

01:19:29   but this laptop looks really good [TS]

01:19:32   because when when the MacBook Air first [TS]

01:19:34   came out it was like the specialized [TS]

01:19:35   thing but over you know over a pretty [TS]

01:19:37   short time it pretty quickly became like [TS]

01:19:39   the mainstream a laptop to have and now [TS]

01:19:44   it's the low-end laptop to have but it's [TS]

01:19:46   still like they still sell a ton of them [TS]

01:19:48   because the 13-inch MacBook Air [TS]

01:19:50   especially like that form factor like [TS]

01:19:51   that combination I've talked about [TS]

01:19:53   before and they show like that's a [TS]

01:19:54   really good sweet spot for a lot of [TS]

01:19:56   people it's an incredibly compelling [TS]

01:19:58   overall pack [TS]

01:19:59   there's a reason why everyone has their [TS]

01:20:02   has MacBook Airs [TS]

01:20:03   and almost everyone who hasn't loves [TS]

01:20:04   them it's no coincidence that when my [TS]

01:20:08   cursor into do stuff that's a quite a [TS]

01:20:10   mistake when Apple introduced the new [TS]

01:20:13   MacBook Pros and and kind of made it [TS]

01:20:15   clear that the MacBook Air was was on [TS]

01:20:17   its way slowly out and that the new [TS]

01:20:20   MacBook Air replacement was this this [TS]

01:20:23   13-inch MacBook Escape that is more [TS]

01:20:26   expensive and in some ways more limited [TS]

01:20:28   a lot of people were very upset about [TS]

01:20:29   that it's like it's like no you took [TS]

01:20:31   this this formula that we liked so much [TS]

01:20:33   and now you're telling us that it's over [TS]

01:20:34   and you're replacing it with some of its [TS]

01:20:36   more expensive and more limited so [TS]

01:20:37   Microsoft comes along and says all right [TS]

01:20:38   well you know what here this computer [TS]

01:20:40   that you wanted here we just made it we [TS]

01:20:42   made like a up to date basically version [TS]

01:20:46   of a retina MacBook Air shape and size [TS]

01:20:50   computer and in most ways it looks a lot [TS]

01:20:52   like the MacBook Air it you know again [TS]

01:20:56   like if you if you match respect respect [TS]

01:20:57   it's it's is about the same price as the [TS]

01:21:01   air and although newer and in it is a [TS]

01:21:04   few hundred dollars cheaper than the [TS]

01:21:06   MacBook Escape for similar specs again I [TS]

01:21:09   think they're going to sell a lot of [TS]

01:21:10   these now they aren't the first PC maker [TS]

01:21:12   to make a MacBook Air clone that you [TS]

01:21:14   know the PC makers are making these for [TS]

01:21:15   a while largely I think one of the [TS]

01:21:17   reasons why services have taken off so [TS]

01:21:19   well is that PC hardware is largely [TS]

01:21:23   total crap like it is really bad like [TS]

01:21:26   the designs are crappy ly and they're [TS]

01:21:28   cheap plastic builds and just designed [TS]

01:21:32   with very poor taste you know and and [TS]

01:21:34   Microsoft's designs have largely been [TS]

01:21:35   pretty good like for the surface [TS]

01:21:37   hardware like they've had a couple of [TS]

01:21:39   you know weird little missteps here and [TS]

01:21:40   there but you know so is Apple like no [TS]

01:21:41   one's perfect so Microsoft actually I [TS]

01:21:43   think doing pretty well here and if I [TS]

01:21:46   were buying a Windows PC for some reason [TS]

01:21:48   it would almost certainly be a surface [TS]

01:21:51   product of some kind or I built my own [TS]

01:21:53   life if it was a desktop probably but [TS]

01:21:55   like let's say if I buy a PC laptop for [TS]

01:21:58   some reason I would almost certainly get [TS]

01:22:00   one of these I agree with you the thing [TS]

01:22:03   is I obviously my career prior to my [TS]

01:22:07   current job was all the Microsoft stack [TS]

01:22:08   and so though I don't have any [TS]

01:22:10   particular love for Microsoft in [TS]

01:22:12   stal jaques sense i i have admired the [TS]

01:22:15   way they've really changed themselves [TS]

01:22:17   and and really kind of adjusted the way [TS]

01:22:20   they operate with such a novella at the [TS]

01:22:23   helm and I think they've been doing a [TS]

01:22:24   really good job and have been have been [TS]

01:22:26   doing really fascinating stuff for the [TS]

01:22:28   San Franciscans they pivoted so anyway [TS]

01:22:30   the funny thing is though you can't [TS]

01:22:33   really make Microsoft lose all of its [TS]

01:22:37   old bits because as I'm trying to get [TS]

01:22:39   the URL for the surface laptop to put in [TS]

01:22:41   the show notes I arrive at Microsoft [TS]

01:22:44   Store comm slash store / MS USA / en-us [TS]

01:22:47   PDP / product ID dot 5 109 100 then as I [TS]

01:22:52   load that page the back the the page [TS]

01:22:55   itself has been dimmed and I have a [TS]

01:22:57   modal don't miss out sign up to receive [TS]

01:22:59   special deals new offers and more no the [TS]

01:23:02   answer is no so you can make Microsoft a [TS]

01:23:06   lot better in general but you can't ever [TS]

01:23:08   really make Microsoft forget that their [TS]

01:23:10   Microsoft can you well but what's the [TS]

01:23:12   actual name of the macbook escape i/o [TS]

01:23:15   the MacBook Pro I believe it's the late [TS]

01:23:18   2013 13 inch MacBook Pro without touch [TS]

01:23:20   bar a fair point fair point fair point [TS]

01:23:22   with deleteme in all caps at the end [TS]

01:23:24   yeah so anyway but no I other than that [TS]

01:23:29   I I think this looks really great I [TS]

01:23:32   agree with you if I were to buy a PC it [TS]

01:23:36   would either be a lenovo or very very [TS]

01:23:38   likely a surface laptop or something [TS]

01:23:40   like this I agree with you that [TS]

01:23:42   everything I've heard from people who [TS]

01:23:43   have touchscreen laptops they swear by [TS]

01:23:45   them I think that seems really kooky but [TS]

01:23:47   it's probably one of those things that I [TS]

01:23:49   just haven't tried it and so I don't get [TS]

01:23:50   it and certainly for iOS simulator that [TS]

01:23:54   would be super helpful so in that sense [TS]

01:23:56   I do get it but I do like that there are [TS]

01:23:59   different colors available I don't [TS]

01:24:01   recall what colors there are but there's [TS]

01:24:03   certainly several shades that you can [TS]

01:24:05   get them in which is really kind of [TS]

01:24:07   stupid but I like it and I think that's [TS]

01:24:08   kind of neat Apple look Apple sells like [TS]

01:24:11   you know that the pink gold and dark [TS]

01:24:13   gray 12-inch MacBook that's yeah that's [TS]

01:24:16   fine like that there's nothing wrong [TS]

01:24:17   with a little bit of color in your life [TS]

01:24:19   tech people mean it's fine color is nice [TS]

01:24:21   although here again like the marketing [TS]

01:24:23   copy is is pratap purpose [TS]

01:24:25   the here again the marketing copy is [TS]

01:24:27   preposterous if you look at the the [TS]

01:24:31   bullets undersurface laptop luxurious [TS]

01:24:35   alla contra fabric-covered keyboard is [TS]

01:24:37   bullet number two wait come on I mean in [TS]

01:24:39   that Apple has their moment still get me [TS]

01:24:41   wrong Apple is not innocent in this [TS]

01:24:42   department but luxurious all account all [TS]

01:24:45   contra fabric-covered keyboard really [TS]

01:24:47   guys I'm glad you can't pronounce that [TS]

01:24:48   word either just by reading in a car [TS]

01:24:50   magazines for the past several decades [TS]

01:24:51   so that was uh Kintaro i don't know you [TS]

01:24:54   never have to say it out loud when it's [TS]

01:24:55   in car magazines and all of a sudden [TS]

01:24:56   you're faced with this word you got to [TS]

01:24:57   do a disable the time al-qantara there [TS]

01:25:00   we go it's like gazelle any case john [TS]

01:25:02   what do you think about this so so the [TS]

01:25:05   the narrative for this is like Marco [TS]

01:25:08   said Oh Apple wouldn't make this laptop [TS]

01:25:10   this is the retina MacBook Air that we [TS]

01:25:12   have all wanted but as Marco already [TS]

01:25:14   pointed out it's not like there haven't [TS]

01:25:16   been a million pcs that the are similar [TS]

01:25:19   they're like small thin used the MacBook [TS]

01:25:21   Air class a processor but are newer and [TS]

01:25:23   have a Retina screen and so on and so [TS]

01:25:25   forth um for this computer specifically [TS]

01:25:28   though this is not the retina MacBook [TS]

01:25:30   Air that I would want assuming it ran [TS]

01:25:32   Mac OS and not just because it's got a [TS]

01:25:34   fuzzy top which is kind of weird and I [TS]

01:25:36   think we get kind of gross this if Apple [TS]

01:25:41   made this computer I would right now be [TS]

01:25:42   complaining about the ports and the RAM [TS]

01:25:44   four gigabytes RAM that you shouldn't [TS]

01:25:47   even offer a computer with that much is [TS]

01:25:48   stupid don't do that and the ports one [TS]

01:25:51   big USB one mini DisplayPort thingy [TS]

01:25:55   headphone like no USB see that's not a [TS]

01:25:59   modern computer like I'm not saying you [TS]

01:26:00   have to have all the ports in the world [TS]

01:26:02   but especially if you're going to be a [TS]

01:26:04   PC like provide me utility the utility [TS]

01:26:07   with Apple won't add would be you know [TS]

01:26:10   like it what this thing has except for [TS]

01:26:13   USB see instead of playing USB maybe [TS]

01:26:15   thrown one regular us because it's not [TS]

01:26:17   like there's not room like this is not a [TS]

01:26:18   MacBook sighs SuperDuper skinny thing [TS]

01:26:20   it's big enough that you could fit some [TS]

01:26:21   more ports on there and if I'm looking [TS]

01:26:23   for anything into the PC is to do the [TS]

01:26:25   port stuff that Apple won't do so give [TS]

01:26:27   me my ports put some USB C on there put [TS]

01:26:29   one regular USB put an SD card slot [TS]

01:26:31   don't give me one big USB and one mini [TS]

01:26:35   DisplayPort and that's it like I feel [TS]

01:26:37   like it is RAM starve and [TS]

01:26:39   Gort slim and form-factor wise if I'm [TS]

01:26:43   going to buy into the surface brand no [TS]

01:26:45   this is just like this is a service [TS]

01:26:46   laptop like they do have a touchscreen [TS]

01:26:47   on it but just like they do on the [TS]

01:26:49   surface book and everything but those [TS]

01:26:51   can sort of transform into tablet II [TS]

01:26:53   things where all of a sudden the [TS]

01:26:54   touchscreen is much more viable not [TS]

01:26:56   saying you don't want to have a [TS]

01:26:57   touchscreen because they should they [TS]

01:26:59   should leverage the advantage they have [TS]

01:27:00   which is they have created an OS that is [TS]

01:27:03   touch accessible right that's the whole [TS]

01:27:05   thing that they've done it's one [TS]

01:27:06   combined OS that it is usable with your [TS]

01:27:08   finger you're not you know in theory the [TS]

01:27:12   interface that is on the screen has some [TS]

01:27:15   chance of being used by your big you [TS]

01:27:17   know 44-point in apple parlance [TS]

01:27:20   fingertip surface right and that's what [TS]

01:27:23   they're telling people to make make an [TS]

01:27:25   application that is usable in that way [TS]

01:27:26   we'll make controls and buttons and [TS]

01:27:28   widgets and things that are usable in [TS]

01:27:30   that way Mac OS is not like that so one [TS]

01:27:33   of the advantages that that Microsoft [TS]

01:27:35   has when it comes to directly competing [TS]

01:27:37   against the Mac not iOS but the Mac is [TS]

01:27:39   that they have an interface that is [TS]

01:27:41   available for touch but touch on a plain [TS]

01:27:43   old upright laptop screen like this [TS]

01:27:45   you're right the PCs have been doing it [TS]

01:27:46   forever and you're right that people do [TS]

01:27:47   like it because they can touch the [TS]

01:27:48   screen but I think Apple is also right [TS]

01:27:50   that did it is a it is not a great [TS]

01:27:52   experience so I don't say there's a [TS]

01:27:55   reason they shouldn't have put touch in [TS]

01:27:56   here but I wouldn't chalk it up as much [TS]

01:27:58   of an advantage it's more of a well we [TS]

01:28:00   can do it anyway and we got to do it but [TS]

01:28:01   it makes me wish almost that this was a [TS]

01:28:03   straight-up laptop but the hinge went [TS]

01:28:06   all the way around and you could just [TS]

01:28:07   bend it back on itself right you know [TS]

01:28:09   the convertibles that they made a [TS]

01:28:10   million different varieties of if it's [TS]

01:28:12   not gonna I can get on board with them [TS]

01:28:14   not disconnecting it but if it's going [TS]

01:28:15   to be a touchscreen what if there is [TS]

01:28:17   some application that I really want to [TS]

01:28:19   use a touchscreen with it is extremely [TS]

01:28:21   awkward to use a very touch-centric [TS]

01:28:24   interface when you're when it's in a [TS]

01:28:26   laptop configuration so I put that down [TS]

01:28:30   mostly as a neutral and then so that I'm [TS]

01:28:31   just like a left with a laptop that is [TS]

01:28:33   kind of middle-of-the-road kind of [TS]

01:28:36   strange not a good complement of ports [TS]

01:28:38   in the low-end model has terrible specs [TS]

01:28:39   so I'm not impressed with it as a laptop [TS]

01:28:41   but I but I do agree that Microsoft has [TS]

01:28:43   been been trying everything that you can [TS]

01:28:46   safely try and that they are putting in [TS]

01:28:49   the work to make an operating system [TS]

01:28:51   that embodies their vision [TS]

01:28:53   how computing how a single operating [TS]

01:28:54   system can span multiple form factors [TS]

01:28:56   and all that other good stuff styling [TS]

01:28:58   wise the FIR aside or the fuzzy fabric [TS]

01:29:01   aside I still think Microsoft Surface [TS]

01:29:04   and pcs in general are sticking too [TS]

01:29:09   closely to the Apple [TS]

01:29:11   design formula like they have their own [TS]

01:29:14   twist they have their own colors you [TS]

01:29:15   know fabric and the weird hinge no stuff [TS]

01:29:17   like that but Apple has so dominated the [TS]

01:29:20   aesthetic for laptops basically from the [TS]

01:29:23   PowerBook days when they defined the [TS]

01:29:24   current shape of laptop keyboard goes [TS]

01:29:26   their pointing device goes here screen [TS]

01:29:28   goes there it took a while for PC to get [TS]

01:29:32   onboard with that but that defined it in [TS]

01:29:34   the same way that the iPhone defined the [TS]

01:29:36   smartphone form factor and when Apple [TS]

01:29:37   came out with the modern MacBook lines [TS]

01:29:39   with the big flat square key caps and [TS]

01:29:42   this little perfect rectangle the Johnny [TS]

01:29:43   I've loves in the big touchpad and like [TS]

01:29:45   all the quote-unquote high-end PC [TS]

01:29:49   laptops have been following along with [TS]

01:29:52   that aesthetic as if it is the one and [TS]

01:29:53   only true way to make laptops and I [TS]

01:29:55   don't think it is there are there are [TS]

01:29:57   there is variety out there and a lot of [TS]

01:29:58   that variety is ugly if you like glad [TS]

01:30:00   Microsoft is sticking with of the Apple [TS]

01:30:02   design school because it looks good and [TS]

01:30:03   it does but it also doesn't allow them [TS]

01:30:06   to stand out very often speaking of [TS]

01:30:07   coffee shop surveys I'm in a coffee shop [TS]

01:30:09   and I have to squint to make sure I can [TS]

01:30:11   make out from the front is that a [TS]

01:30:13   MacBook Air or is it you know it's [TS]

01:30:16   easier from the back because you can see [TS]

01:30:17   the little Windows logo which is you [TS]

01:30:19   know better than the old windows logo [TS]

01:30:21   but whatever anyway [TS]

01:30:22   Apple says that you have to have your [TS]

01:30:24   company logo dead center in the back of [TS]

01:30:25   your screen so that's what they do but [TS]

01:30:27   from the front it's like it you could [TS]

01:30:28   mistake it for a MacBook Air and I think [TS]

01:30:30   that is leaving money on the table style [TS]

01:30:32   wise that I believe there can be a [TS]

01:30:34   different aesthetic that they could be [TS]

01:30:36   pursuing instead of what they're [TS]

01:30:37   currently doing which is like Apple [TS]

01:30:39   style but with a twist [TS]

01:30:40   so I'm not particularly impressed by [TS]

01:30:42   this product I was much more impressed [TS]

01:30:44   by the surface studio Pro and I but all [TS]

01:30:47   these products all Microsoft hardware [TS]

01:30:49   products and even you know to some [TS]

01:30:51   degree the software products reveal real [TS]

01:30:56   gaps in Apple's lineup I'm not going to [TS]

01:30:58   say that necessarily weaknesses but they [TS]

01:30:59   reveal gaps like their operating system [TS]

01:31:01   reveals the fact that there you know the [TS]

01:31:03   things fall through the gaps between iOS [TS]

01:31:05   and [TS]

01:31:05   whether one OS to us is the right [TS]

01:31:07   strategy either way it shows gaps and [TS]

01:31:09   all these variety of surface books and [TS]

01:31:11   service to do reveal gaps in Apple's [TS]

01:31:13   lineup in it like if you want a really [TS]

01:31:15   big touchscreen that runs Pro Apps the [TS]

01:31:17   biggest you can go on Apple is 12.5 inch [TS]

01:31:20   of un if you want to know s that's touch [TS]

01:31:22   accessible that's iOS you know and like [TS]

01:31:24   there's this big gap between pro [TS]

01:31:26   hardware that in theory is coming to the [TS]

01:31:27   max soon and and touch OS and Apple has [TS]

01:31:31   separated those two from each other [TS]

01:31:32   whereas Microsoft has a combined OS and [TS]

01:31:34   a combined hardware strategy so I find [TS]

01:31:36   that the most interesting thing about [TS]

01:31:37   the surface efforts and I suppose it's [TS]

01:31:40   interesting that they're extending the [TS]

01:31:41   brain to a plain old laptop but this [TS]

01:31:43   plain old laptop isn't it does not seem [TS]

01:31:45   to be a particularly compelling product [TS]

01:31:46   beyond the fact that it is a surface [TS]

01:31:49   branded laptop but I I applaud Microsoft [TS]

01:31:51   for taking the surface hardware and [TS]

01:31:53   software brand [TS]

01:31:54   and extending it outwards and hopefully [TS]

01:31:57   they have some success we haven't even [TS]

01:31:58   talked about Windows 10 s I don't know [TS]

01:31:59   if we have time for it but that is a [TS]

01:32:01   whole other aspect of this we'll get to [TS]

01:32:02   the head but also and I think this ties [TS]

01:32:04   into that to keep in mind like as you [TS]

01:32:06   criticize this laptops you know [TS]

01:32:07   mediocrity in certain areas [TS]

01:32:09   it's a low-end product like it this is [TS]

01:32:11   this is a value product you know in the [TS]

01:32:13   world of pcs it's probably mid to low [TS]

01:32:15   end Mac it's a high end PC a low end PC [TS]

01:32:18   laptop is 180 bucks yeah that's true it [TS]

01:32:21   is it's a mid-range piece of that but [TS]

01:32:23   but it's you know because and you know [TS]

01:32:25   use of those kind of mid-range parts and [TS]

01:32:26   everything it's it's pretty small case [TS]

01:32:28   and everything's anyway this is a value [TS]

01:32:31   product and it's competing against [TS]

01:32:32   Apple's value products and it is [TS]

01:32:34   interesting to see like the two very [TS]

01:32:36   different ways that Microsoft and Apple [TS]

01:32:38   are tackling this problem you know Apple [TS]

01:32:39   is largely addressing the very old an [TS]

01:32:44   updated MacBook Air towards the same [TS]

01:32:46   market I mean some of the people we push [TS]

01:32:48   up into a new method Pro but but I think [TS]

01:32:51   a lot of people liking this is aimed at [TS]

01:32:53   things like schools bait you know [TS]

01:32:55   businesses college students like people [TS]

01:32:57   who need either a lot of computers at [TS]

01:33:00   blows profit price like a school or like [TS]

01:33:02   people who like people who are buying a [TS]

01:33:04   computer need a lot of value and can't [TS]

01:33:06   spend a lot more so things like how [TS]

01:33:07   people like college students things of [TS]

01:33:09   that and you know the MacBook Air is [TS]

01:33:11   owned very buff these people but you [TS]

01:33:13   know Apple is basically just telling [TS]

01:33:16   them to just keep buying really old [TS]

01:33:18   hardware [TS]

01:33:19   and Microsoft is showing them a new [TS]

01:33:21   option and I don't think Apple really [TS]

01:33:25   has a direct answer to this they mean I [TS]

01:33:27   guess technically Apple's answer is [TS]

01:33:29   spend more for one of our new computers [TS]

01:33:31   or tolerate one of our old ones but I [TS]

01:33:33   really I think the MacBook Air is is [TS]

01:33:36   kind of an embarrassment right now [TS]

01:33:37   because it's not like this is some like [TS]

01:33:40   you know you know narrow little product [TS]

01:33:42   that they don't sell many of they sell [TS]

01:33:43   tons of them and so it makes me kind of [TS]

01:33:48   sad for Apple that they are happy to [TS]

01:33:52   sell so many of an ancient product that [TS]

01:33:56   they have refused to update out of what [TS]

01:33:58   seems like a combination of laziness and [TS]

01:34:00   greed because they're making good money [TS]

01:34:02   on it so why update it that's that's a [TS]

01:34:05   crappy reason you know but that seems to [TS]

01:34:07   be the reason they're using and the new [TS]

01:34:09   MacBook Pro will eventually I assume [TS]

01:34:11   we'll eventually get lower in price and [TS]

01:34:14   eventually will and eventually the [TS]

01:34:16   12-inch and the the escape line will [TS]

01:34:20   replace the MacBook Air but it doesn't [TS]

01:34:22   seem like that's happening soon it [TS]

01:34:23   seemed like that might be like still [TS]

01:34:25   like maybe maybe three years out or [TS]

01:34:26   something like that [TS]

01:34:27   so for this time are they just gonna [TS]

01:34:29   keep selling this ancient MacBook Air [TS]

01:34:31   while things like this are coming out [TS]

01:34:34   from the PC industry and and kind of [TS]

01:34:36   embarrassing it like that I don't I [TS]

01:34:38   don't think I like that strategy don't [TS]

01:34:40   we have like five years before they have [TS]

01:34:41   a special meeting to talk about the [TS]

01:34:42   MacBook Air campuses they invite us like [TS]

01:34:45   you know saying we know we haven't [TS]

01:34:47   updated the MacBook Air in four years [TS]

01:34:48   and people wonder if we're going to [TS]

01:34:50   discontinue it but we've just decided [TS]

01:34:52   last week that we're going to make a new [TS]

01:34:54   MacBook Air and I won't be out this year [TS]

01:34:56   but we are going to rethink the MacBook [TS]

01:34:59   we've heard you that you want the [TS]

01:35:01   MacBook Air like yeah right yeah it's [TS]

01:35:03   the specific Microsoft Surface thing [TS]

01:35:05   like PC laptops have been embarrassing [TS]

01:35:07   the air for a long time it's not just [TS]

01:35:08   this one like oh they finally made it [TS]

01:35:10   like like I said like there's been tons [TS]

01:35:12   of pcs that use the Mac by our class of [TS]

01:35:14   chip but they actually stay updated of [TS]

01:35:15   varying degrees of build quality and [TS]

01:35:17   style so maybe the Microsoft one is [TS]

01:35:18   notable in that they have a good [TS]

01:35:20   reputation for Hardware build quality [TS]

01:35:21   and if you like the style like that's [TS]

01:35:23   fine but yeah I mean it's that's it's [TS]

01:35:26   revealing gaps in Apple's lineup like [TS]

01:35:28   that that Apple wanted the Mac the [TS]

01:35:30   combination of the new Mac [TS]

01:35:31   book and the new MacBook Pros to span [TS]

01:35:33   the same rage that the old combination [TS]

01:35:35   of the errors plus the pros plus the [TS]

01:35:37   weird MacBook II thing in the middle [TS]

01:35:38   span and it does kind of span the same [TS]

01:35:42   range of gaps in different places but [TS]

01:35:44   because of the way they're priced and [TS]

01:35:45   the way their capabilities spread it [TS]

01:35:47   ends up being less satisfying and and [TS]

01:35:50   the air still is very pop I don't know [TS]

01:35:52   if I mentioned this about my UK trip but [TS]

01:35:55   I did it I did a because I was actually [TS]

01:35:56   in a Starbucks I think the first time in [TS]

01:35:59   my entire life big because my wife went [TS]

01:36:04   in there to get a drink and I came in [TS]

01:36:05   with her um and I did a laptop count [TS]

01:36:09   just because I was you know I glanced [TS]

01:36:11   around and I was stunned at what I saw [TS]

01:36:12   what I saw was like I think it was like [TS]

01:36:15   eight MacBook Airs [TS]

01:36:17   one HP laptop and one MacBook Pro yeah I [TS]

01:36:21   was like MacBook Airs like what's going [TS]

01:36:23   on talk to some people in the UK and [TS]

01:36:25   they said Oh schools buy them a lot like [TS]

01:36:26   when you go to school you get a lot of [TS]

01:36:27   stuff and they all buy MacBook Airs [TS]

01:36:29   so like are these people going to mean [TS]

01:36:31   are these all old MacBook Airs they got [TS]

01:36:33   as hand-me-downs are people going to [TS]

01:36:35   Apple stores and continuing to buy [TS]

01:36:36   MacBook Airs yes they are but yeah I [TS]

01:36:39   mean I don't know I mean if you look at [TS]

01:36:40   the ASP s of the I was thinking this [TS]

01:36:41   when you say oh the MacBook Pro prices [TS]

01:36:43   will come down like Nautilus ASP stay up [TS]

01:36:45   because the new MacBook Pros that are [TS]

01:36:46   all super you know more expensive than [TS]

01:36:48   their old models tremendously increased [TS]

01:36:50   revenues and average selling price for [TS]

01:36:53   Apple so because I get pent-up demand [TS]

01:36:54   right or whatever but I'm not so sure [TS]

01:36:56   that they're going to be in a big darn [TS]

01:36:58   hurry to lower the price and honestly [TS]

01:37:00   I'm okay with Apple jacking up the price [TS]

01:37:03   on its top end models as long as the top [TS]

01:37:05   end models like justify that price not [TS]

01:37:06   linearly obviously where it's like is [TS]

01:37:08   this $500 better no of course it's not [TS]

01:37:09   gonna be calling dollars better but if [TS]

01:37:10   anything you're going to fleece people [TS]

01:37:12   on make it the super duper high end ones [TS]

01:37:14   if they actually introduced a MacBook [TS]

01:37:19   Air replacement sort of a worthy MacBook [TS]

01:37:20   Air replacement that fills that same [TS]

01:37:22   role like has the same trade-offs of [TS]

01:37:24   battery life screen size and ports and [TS]

01:37:26   capability as the old MacBook Air but [TS]

01:37:28   has all updated internals and is retina [TS]

01:37:29   if they ever made such a machine I mean [TS]

01:37:31   that can lower their ISPs but I think it [TS]

01:37:33   would sell like hotcakes and honestly I [TS]

01:37:35   feel like I don't made the joke about [TS]

01:37:38   the whole Mac Mac Pro meeting like oh [TS]

01:37:41   we've decided we're going to do this I [TS]

01:37:42   feel like that decision [TS]

01:37:44   is inevitable because it seems like the [TS]

01:37:47   range of capabilities in Apple's limited [TS]

01:37:49   range from the SuperDuper skinny MacBook [TS]

01:37:51   to the much more expensive pros that [TS]

01:37:54   doesn't seem to be the right [TS]

01:37:55   distribution of price points and [TS]

01:37:56   capabilities to satisfy the market right [TS]

01:37:58   whereas the air has proven itself to be [TS]

01:38:00   a you know and not the first air because [TS]

01:38:03   the first there was a crappy mix right [TS]

01:38:04   but like the 2011 and on air like that [TS]

01:38:07   was a really great sweet spot for our [TS]

01:38:10   capability size and price uh and I think [TS]

01:38:14   Apple has proven with their experiment [TS]

01:38:15   that the SuperDuper skinny one like it's [TS]

01:38:19   a little bit too far down the capability [TS]

01:38:21   ladder like it's sacrifice too much [TS]

01:38:23   capability for other stuff they just by [TS]

01:38:24   all means keep it because you should [TS]

01:38:25   have a model it's like the lightest [TS]

01:38:27   possible thing perhaps awesome for that [TS]

01:38:28   right but it doesn't it you know [TS]

01:38:31   whatever the curve looks like of demand [TS]

01:38:33   for laptop sizes and capabilities that [TS]

01:38:35   one is also towards the edge so I think [TS]

01:38:38   Apple will eventually coming around come [TS]

01:38:40   around to making a machine that has this [TS]

01:38:43   the balance of the MacBook Air does have [TS]

01:38:45   to be the same exact size and shape as [TS]

01:38:46   the MacBook Air because things change [TS]

01:38:47   and USBC is smaller and so on and so [TS]

01:38:49   forth and whether that's because the the [TS]

01:38:51   MacBook evolved or they introduced a new [TS]

01:38:54   model in the middle or the 13-inch [TS]

01:38:56   MacBook Pro as marcos talked about so [TS]

01:38:58   many times eventually shrinks down to [TS]

01:38:59   the point where it basically is a [TS]

01:39:00   MacBook Air but that hasn't happened yet [TS]

01:39:02   and so looking over at the PC side of [TS]

01:39:06   the windows side of things and seeing [TS]

01:39:07   all these MacBook Air equivalents seeing [TS]

01:39:09   how popular you know again coffee coffee [TS]

01:39:11   shop surveys a lot of the pcs that I see [TS]

01:39:15   are macbook air resize form factor that [TS]

01:39:17   i see less of the giant battleships that [TS]

01:39:19   you still see in corporate environments [TS]

01:39:21   and i see more of the you know HP Lenovo [TS]

01:39:24   MacBook Air II sized machines [TS]

01:39:26   so hopefully Apple will get on that in [TS]

01:39:30   you know t-minus two and a half years [TS]

01:39:32   yeah cuz that's the thing like it that's [TS]

01:39:34   what I'm seeing like the strategy what [TS]

01:39:35   they're doing but they seem to be doing [TS]

01:39:37   now which is basically like just never [TS]

01:39:38   update the air and just keep selling it [TS]

01:39:40   until the other ones come down in price [TS]

01:39:42   I don't think that necessarily works [TS]

01:39:44   unless there's other changes in mind [TS]

01:39:45   because like what you said like the the [TS]

01:39:48   12-inch [TS]

01:39:48   assume that comes down in price and [TS]

01:39:50   becomes a new entry that's kind of not [TS]

01:39:52   good enough to replace the MacBook Air [TS]

01:39:53   like it is it is so much of a compromise [TS]

01:39:57   and so many more air [TS]

01:39:58   as it you know it has way fewer ports [TS]

01:40:01   and things it is way slower than MacBook [TS]

01:40:03   Air in a lot of things it is it gets [TS]

01:40:06   worse battery life by a good amount and [TS]

01:40:09   and though you know it will presume to [TS]

01:40:11   improve over time like maybe maybe the [TS]

01:40:13   second generation 12-inch MacBook [TS]

01:40:15   whenever that comes out maybe that one [TS]

01:40:18   will be a better air replacement but the [TS]

01:40:21   current one really isn't I mean maybe [TS]

01:40:23   the answer is that the 13-inch MacBook [TS]

01:40:26   Escape ends up going down in price [TS]

01:40:29   eventually or it has a very low in [TS]

01:40:31   configuration but the problem is like [TS]

01:40:34   the the base model is already a pretty a [TS]

01:40:37   pretty low-end model for Apple standards [TS]

01:40:39   for you know for the connected service [TS]

01:40:41   book it's kind of mid-range to high-end [TS]

01:40:42   but so so again like I'm I'm not [TS]

01:40:44   entirely sure that strategy makes sense [TS]

01:40:46   but it seems like Apple is doing a [TS]

01:40:49   pretty poor job addressing what is [TS]

01:40:53   probably by far their most popular model [TS]

01:40:57   of laptop like that seems weird to me [TS]

01:40:59   although that that being said looking at [TS]

01:41:02   the surface laptop if you had if you [TS]

01:41:05   were buying one of these things which of [TS]

01:41:07   these four colors would you guys I saw [TS]

01:41:09   the video the colors looked okay in the [TS]

01:41:10   video now I'm seeing this page like all [TS]

01:41:12   four of these colors look hideous to me [TS]

01:41:14   they all look like cubicle walls as the [TS]

01:41:18   texture is the problem not the color I [TS]

01:41:20   think either one of the the two gray is [TS]

01:41:23   the darker grey is a lighter gray [TS]

01:41:24   they're fine but I'm I'm not on board [TS]

01:41:27   with with the texture thing both because [TS]

01:41:29   I think it'll get dirty and gross and [TS]

01:41:31   it'll be harder to clean and also [TS]

01:41:32   because the edge treatment like when the [TS]

01:41:34   fabric runs to the edge and you know [TS]

01:41:37   joins up with the metal that's just [TS]

01:41:39   asking for it to fray the last thing I [TS]

01:41:40   want is a frayed laptop that's not an [TS]

01:41:41   aesthetic I like I can imagine people [TS]

01:41:43   finding attractive right but I'm not I'm [TS]

01:41:46   not into that word I I don't know I it's [TS]

01:41:49   hard to say I on the configurator the [TS]

01:41:52   the colors are in the image is just [TS]

01:41:54   microscopic and it's very hard to say I [TS]

01:41:57   would probably take a look at the cobalt [TS]

01:42:00   blue but it all likelihood end up with [TS]

01:42:02   the boring platinum [TS]

01:42:04   yeah the cause of the cause I read and [TS]

01:42:06   you're right that their website like the [TS]

01:42:08   you know you just made fun of their [TS]

01:42:09   website for a while before but like [TS]

01:42:11   if you have beautiful hardware like they [TS]

01:42:13   made the really cool intro video [TS]

01:42:15   I think Gruber linked to and I hope all [TS]

01:42:16   the people that it shows like I'll you [TS]

01:42:18   know it looked like an Apple video [TS]

01:42:19   showing how beautiful all the parts are [TS]

01:42:21   even on the inside and how they all [TS]

01:42:22   assemble and fly together we've seen [TS]

01:42:24   stuff from like Apple like but then if [TS]

01:42:26   you go to their website Apple the entire [TS]

01:42:28   page would you just be like incredibly [TS]

01:42:31   close-up high-resolution beautifully [TS]

01:42:33   shot photographs slash renders of their [TS]

01:42:35   hardware right whereas here we're [TS]

01:42:37   squinting at these little blurry JPEGs [TS]

01:42:39   we can't even you know I was trying to [TS]

01:42:40   look for a picture to show me all the [TS]

01:42:41   ports Apple would have a shot that's [TS]

01:42:43   like the ports fill your entire screen [TS]

01:42:46   and they're impossibly clean because [TS]

01:42:47   they're probably computer renders and [TS]

01:42:49   here it's like I can't even get a shot [TS]

01:42:50   where I can make out what the ports are [TS]

01:42:52   on the side the color picker changes the [TS]

01:42:54   color on this one inch by one inch [TS]

01:42:56   postage stamp is off you are not you're [TS]

01:42:59   not selling your hardware you got look [TS]

01:43:01   good looking hardware you have to show [TS]

01:43:02   it off we want to see it want to see it [TS]

01:43:04   up close alas that's Microsoft's I will [TS]

01:43:09   say also the MacBook escape the the late [TS]

01:43:12   2016 13 inch MacBook Pro without touch [TS]

01:43:15   bar two ports that it continues to [TS]

01:43:18   impress me as a machine like and and you [TS]

01:43:21   know when at when Phil Schiller onstage [TS]

01:43:23   and talked about it during the [TS]

01:43:24   introduction he did say something on the [TS]

01:43:26   lines of like this is kind of the new [TS]

01:43:27   MacBook Air and even though it starts at [TS]

01:43:30   $1500 and has few reports and things I [TS]

01:43:34   think that is largely correct I hope in [TS]

01:43:38   in the whatever the next version of the [TS]

01:43:40   MacBook Escape is you know presumably [TS]

01:43:41   meant you know maybe this fall or next [TS]

01:43:43   spring whenever new MacBook Pros come [TS]

01:43:45   out I hope they make a few changes that [TS]

01:43:48   will make that more correct that will [TS]

01:43:51   make this more of a MacBook Air [TS]

01:43:52   replacement I think for me like having [TS]

01:43:55   used this thing now I I missed the SD [TS]

01:43:58   card slot I I will not accept any [TS]

01:44:01   argument that that's the past because it [TS]

01:44:02   simply is not true you can argue with me [TS]

01:44:04   all you want about legacy ports but the [TS]

01:44:07   SD card is not a legacy port it is [TS]

01:44:09   something else and it is still necessary [TS]

01:44:11   for lots of people oh I could not [TS]

01:44:13   disagree with you more cool so I would [TS]

01:44:15   say bring back bring back the SD card [TS]

01:44:18   reader and I would also really like one [TS]

01:44:22   more USB port I don't [TS]

01:44:25   whether it's C or a most of the [TS]

01:44:27   computers like in this class before [TS]

01:44:29   you've been able to have them plugged in [TS]

01:44:32   and you'll be able to plug in two [TS]

01:44:34   devices to them and you can't do that [TS]

01:44:36   with this without using hubs and stuff [TS]

01:44:37   and every USB C hub that's out there in [TS]

01:44:40   the world right now is a total piece of [TS]

01:44:41   garbage and the MacBook one has been out [TS]

01:44:43   for what two years now something like [TS]

01:44:45   that and they're still all garbage you [TS]

01:44:47   know like this is similar it's a similar [TS]

01:44:48   problem of a lot of like hubs and things [TS]

01:44:50   like hubs that you know eventually I [TS]

01:44:54   mean it took me something like three [TS]

01:44:55   years to find a decent USB 3 hub that [TS]

01:44:58   didn't disconnect constantly and cause [TS]

01:45:00   problems like every USB C hub out there [TS]

01:45:03   is a total piece of garbage and the fact [TS]

01:45:05   is what if I don't want to buy a USB C [TS]

01:45:07   hub what or what if I what if I don't [TS]

01:45:10   want to buy apples like $75 thing or [TS]

01:45:12   whatever it is like the like that's just [TS]

01:45:14   more additional cost for people who are [TS]

01:45:16   buying this thing to do something fairly [TS]

01:45:17   basic I really would love one additional [TS]

01:45:20   USB port and an SD card reader and if [TS]

01:45:22   that if that happens to come with them [TS]

01:45:24   also maybe dropping the price by a [TS]

01:45:26   couple hundred bucks on the entry on the [TS]

01:45:28   entry point so that it makes it more map [TS]

01:45:30   lakea range I think that would help a [TS]

01:45:32   lot and then make it a little bit [TS]

01:45:33   thinner and you've got to write in my [TS]

01:45:34   book Eric no it does need to be thinner [TS]

01:45:36   it's already thinner than the MacBook [TS]

01:45:37   Air like it is it is it like physically [TS]

01:45:40   in so many ways it's great like it [TS]

01:45:43   really is really nice it's not that it's [TS]

01:45:45   not thinner than macbook air and all [TS]

01:45:47   dimensions like it doesn't do the taper [TS]

01:45:48   which again I said is a great idea for [TS]

01:45:50   not doing the taper because you can get [TS]

01:45:50   tons more battery life but it doesn't [TS]

01:45:53   change the fact of how how it feels in [TS]

01:45:55   your hands and how it fits into your [TS]

01:45:56   like backpack or whatever like the taper [TS]

01:45:58   was there for a reason for like a [TS]

01:46:00   perception reason and that perception is [TS]

01:46:01   a real thing no I'm telling you I [TS]

01:46:03   disagree very strongly on the physical [TS]

01:46:05   side to me physically this is a MacBook [TS]

01:46:07   Air like it this is it is exactly the [TS]

01:46:10   right size and and feels exactly the [TS]

01:46:13   right in the hand you may feel like it's [TS]

01:46:14   the right size but it feels chunkier [TS]

01:46:16   than the air I I disagree I can just go [TS]

01:46:19   get an air and just like it just does [TS]

01:46:21   because it doesn't have the thin end [TS]

01:46:22   that's that's the perception angle that [TS]

01:46:24   I'm talking about like I'm not saying [TS]

01:46:25   the thin end is the right choice because [TS]

01:46:26   I think the right choice is for right [TS]

01:46:27   now for it to be thicker but you're [TS]

01:46:29   saying like in the future eventually [TS]

01:46:30   like I said the question is does the [TS]

01:46:32   fanless macbook expand its capabilities [TS]

01:46:35   to fill in the the role of the air or do [TS]

01:46:39   the 13-inch MacBook Pro slimmed down [TS]

01:46:42   essentially to become to come to the map [TS]

01:46:45   okay and lower its price to come to the [TS]

01:46:47   MacBook Air from above and I agree that [TS]

01:46:48   it's probably more likely that [TS]

01:46:50   eventually the 13-inch MacBook Pro if [TS]

01:46:52   not in price in all other ways will fill [TS]

01:46:55   that same role but I I disagree that [TS]

01:46:57   right now that fit form factor wise did [TS]

01:46:59   it feel the same as it just doesn't we [TS]

01:47:01   have them at work and pick them up and [TS]

01:47:03   it's just not it's just not like that [TS]

01:47:04   actually we don't have them alert the [TS]

01:47:06   important people who have their own [TS]

01:47:07   machines that work out that work sorry [TS]

01:47:10   so excited like the work if that you [TS]

01:47:12   know this is my personal machine do we [TS]

01:47:15   want to we are running long but we want [TS]

01:47:17   to talk about the Windows 10s or [TS]

01:47:20   whatever it's called I mean we can I [TS]

01:47:23   think this is a quick one so Windows 10s [TS]

01:47:25   is the cut down in terms of pricing [TS]

01:47:28   version of Windows that you can get with [TS]

01:47:29   these laptops that wants you to get all [TS]

01:47:32   the applications from Microsoft's [TS]

01:47:33   version of the app store and you know [TS]

01:47:36   it's a model we're all familiar with [TS]

01:47:37   Microsoft has been pushing real hard on [TS]

01:47:38   the App Store model thus far they have [TS]

01:47:40   not been as successful as Apple but in [TS]

01:47:41   theory brings all the same benefits of a [TS]

01:47:43   controlled selection of software that's [TS]

01:47:45   approved by Microsoft that conforms to [TS]

01:47:48   presumably better conforms to the ideals [TS]

01:47:50   that Microsoft wants it to conform to [TS]

01:47:52   and that Microsoft gets you know you [TS]

01:47:54   know the control of how the money flows [TS]

01:47:56   and yadda yadda yadda the interesting [TS]

01:47:58   thing about Microsoft 10s is that if you [TS]

01:48:01   want to get applications from someplace [TS]

01:48:03   other than the Microsoft App Store I [TS]

01:48:06   don't know what they call it keeps the [TS]

01:48:07   App Store you can pay them in additional [TS]

01:48:09   50 bucks [TS]

01:48:09   and now you can load programs from [TS]

01:48:11   anywhere which is probably making a long [TS]

01:48:15   time PC windows people freak out because [TS]

01:48:17   this is hell like a lockdown PC that I [TS]

01:48:20   have to pay money to put stuff on that's [TS]

01:48:22   terrible don't worry guys you'll be able [TS]

01:48:24   to hack it all that stuff is cracked [TS]

01:48:25   anyway it's an interesting business [TS]

01:48:29   model trying to have your cake and eat [TS]

01:48:31   it to where it's like well we want to [TS]

01:48:33   give people the capability of using it [TS]

01:48:37   as a regular PC but we actually want to [TS]

01:48:39   discourage that so we can discourage it [TS]

01:48:40   and by the way we can make our cheap [TS]

01:48:42   models cheaper by you know presumably [TS]

01:48:44   Microsoft is reducing whatever its [TS]

01:48:46   license fee is by saying if you if you [TS]

01:48:48   use Windows 10s you to have new PC [TS]

01:48:50   manufacturer won't have to pay us quite [TS]

01:48:52   as [TS]

01:48:52   much for the windows license because we [TS]

01:48:54   hope we're going to make some more by [TS]

01:48:56   selling apps through our store but as [TS]

01:49:00   Gruber pointed out this is kind of a [TS]

01:49:01   weird pitch for people that like you [TS]

01:49:04   have to pay money to are you paying [TS]

01:49:07   money to make your thing better or are [TS]

01:49:09   you're paying or is it just there as a [TS]

01:49:11   deterrent to try to encourage people to [TS]

01:49:13   use the app star and the Microsoft star [TS]

01:49:15   is pretty grim and like doesn't have the [TS]

01:49:17   apps that you want in it so does [TS]

01:49:18   everybody just have to pay that fee I [TS]

01:49:19   don't know like many things they do in [TS]

01:49:21   the Microsoft in modern Microsoft [TS]

01:49:23   service world it's like I don't know [TS]

01:49:25   let's try this and you know they don't [TS]

01:49:27   have too much to lose it's not like [TS]

01:49:28   they're the Microsoft app star is is [TS]

01:49:30   setting the world ablaze so if this is [TS]

01:49:33   what takes to encourage more people to [TS]

01:49:35   get into the Microsoft app store to say [TS]

01:49:37   you know if they sell a lot of these and [TS]

01:49:39   they can say hey look at all these [TS]

01:49:40   customers the only place they can buy [TS]

01:49:41   stores is through the Microsoft Store [TS]

01:49:42   that's why you software developers [TS]

01:49:44   should put your stuff in the Microsoft [TS]

01:49:46   Store but you know good luck getting the [TS]

01:49:48   big names in there the same reason Apple [TS]

01:49:50   couldn't get them in Microsoft's gonna [TS]

01:49:51   have trouble I'm getting with the store [TS]

01:49:53   and then it just ends up being as a [TS]

01:49:54   weird free version of Windows that you [TS]

01:49:55   can pay $50 to unlock and presumably to [TS]

01:49:57   remove all the weird ads that are [TS]

01:49:59   apparently windows these days yeah this [TS]

01:50:01   this whole thing is kind of a weird [TS]

01:50:03   segmentation thing I mean it is [TS]

01:50:04   obviously like this effort to create [TS]

01:50:06   like a low-end Windows but like Windows [TS]

01:50:09   RT was you know kind of a more severe [TS]

01:50:11   version of that and that didn't do so [TS]

01:50:13   well I don't I really don't see [TS]

01:50:16   Microsoft customers being a big fan of [TS]

01:50:19   this it doesn't seem like the thing that [TS]

01:50:22   that deserves a 50 dollar charge it [TS]

01:50:24   seems to me to be like the gatekeeper [TS]

01:50:26   switch in Oster Mac Mac OS where you [TS]

01:50:30   just kind of say yes I understand the [TS]

01:50:31   risks I'm good with it just let me let [TS]

01:50:33   me side load whatever I want yeah that [TS]

01:50:36   was a group is analogy to and it's like [TS]

01:50:37   it doesn't feel good [TS]

01:50:39   - it feels like a ransom it's like [TS]

01:50:40   unlock the full capability to proceed [TS]

01:50:42   but that's just from our perspective [TS]

01:50:43   because we're like oh we just expect to [TS]

01:50:45   be able to load any software we want on [TS]

01:50:46   our PCs and of course from our [TS]

01:50:48   perspective and the the walled garden of [TS]

01:50:51   apples like we would gladly pay 50 bucks [TS]

01:50:53   to be able to sideload arbitrary [TS]

01:50:54   applications onto our iPhones or at [TS]

01:50:56   least that was I think ever all the [TS]

01:50:57   geeks would have agreed on that many [TS]

01:50:59   years ago these days people make less of [TS]

01:51:00   a fuss about that but I think it still [TS]

01:51:02   exists for all sorts of applications [TS]

01:51:04   that Apple doesn't allow on the App [TS]

01:51:05   Store [TS]

01:51:05   potentially be useful so on and so forth [TS]

01:51:07   but trying to bring that to the windows [TS]

01:51:10   world I don't know what kind of demand [TS]

01:51:13   is there for that and I'm not sure how [TS]

01:51:14   much power Microsoft has even with its [TS]

01:51:17   own within its own ecosystem to make [TS]

01:51:19   that happen [TS]

01:51:20   Apple obviously took the easy way out [TS]

01:51:22   and said we're introducing a new [TS]

01:51:23   platform this how it is from day one [TS]

01:51:25   right so then it's like it is what it is [TS]

01:51:27   and guess what that platform was wildly [TS]

01:51:28   successful so they made it happen but [TS]

01:51:30   trying to retro actively apply that to a [TS]

01:51:33   platform that is previously opened Apple [TS]

01:51:36   and it's on its own little private world [TS]

01:51:38   of the Mac has had much difficulty doing [TS]

01:51:40   that you know with Mac App Store in [TS]

01:51:42   sandboxing and major applications that [TS]

01:51:44   we they're nether in the store Mac App [TS]

01:51:46   Store are left the the Mac App Store and [TS]

01:51:48   I think Microsoft's can have an even [TS]

01:51:50   harder time fit but I think mainly the [TS]

01:51:52   main innovation here seems to me as a [TS]

01:51:54   way that Microsoft can allow even [TS]

01:51:58   cheaper windows-based computers while [TS]

01:52:00   still hopefully not losing that much [TS]

01:52:03   money on them like giving Windows [TS]

01:52:05   licenses you know lowering the price of [TS]

01:52:08   Windows licenses so for computers that [TS]

01:52:10   are incredibly cheap and hoping they're [TS]

01:52:11   going to make it up with the App Store [TS]

01:52:13   purchase I don't think the math will [TS]

01:52:14   work out for them but it's interesting [TS]

01:52:16   strategy and from users perspective I [TS]

01:52:18   think Windows users are just used to buy [TS]

01:52:21   now the business model of Windows and [TS]

01:52:24   how many different versions there aren't [TS]

01:52:25   how much they cost them what you really [TS]

01:52:26   have to pay and what they're capable of [TS]

01:52:27   doing being a confusing mess and so you [TS]

01:52:30   know this is par for the course thanks [TS]

01:52:33   much for our sponsors this week Kasper [TS]

01:52:35   betterment and endo Chino and we will [TS]

01:52:37   see you next week now the show is over [TS]

01:52:44   they didn't even mean to be [TS]

01:52:46   as it was accidental oh it was [TS]

01:52:50   accidental John didn't do any research [TS]

01:52:54   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it [TS]

01:52:57   was accidental it was accidental and you [TS]

01:53:03   can find the show notes at ATP dot F M [TS]

01:53:07   and if you're into Twitter you can [TS]

01:53:11   follow them at CAS II WA L is s so [TS]

01:53:17   that's Casey Liz and a are Co AR m [TS]

01:53:21   auntie Marco Arment si R Casey [TS]

01:53:26   USA Syracuse [TS]

01:53:41   I have some thoughts about the switch oh [TS]

01:53:44   it's okay it'll be fairly quick this [TS]

01:53:48   week or oh really last week Mario Kart 8 [TS]

01:53:51   deluxe came out this is the first Mario [TS]

01:53:53   Kart that I have played since Mario Kart [TS]

01:53:55   for the Wii and uh it came out on Friday [TS]

01:53:58   I got my copy on Friday on Monday I had [TS]

01:54:03   already arranged with a few co-workers [TS]

01:54:05   at work who also have switches we were [TS]

01:54:08   all going to bring our consoles in and [TS]

01:54:10   our copies of Mario Kart in play over [TS]

01:54:13   lunch and so there were six of us [TS]

01:54:16   gathered around kind of a bar if you [TS]

01:54:20   will at work playing local multiplayer [TS]

01:54:23   against each other and with each other [TS]

01:54:25   on Mario Kart 8 and it was unbelievably [TS]

01:54:30   fun and cool and a miracle that HR [TS]

01:54:34   didn't come down and yell at us for the [TS]

01:54:35   language that we were all using as we [TS]

01:54:36   were saw as we were hollering at each [TS]

01:54:38   other - you know effectively go die in a [TS]

01:54:41   fire but with much more colorful words [TS]

01:54:44   than that it was unbelievably fun just [TS]

01:54:47   like Apple it well felt like Apple used [TS]

01:54:49   to be anyway it just worked and it was [TS]

01:54:53   great and and I had just an unbelievable [TS]

01:54:56   an unbelievable amount of fun in a way [TS]

01:54:57   that I haven't since I did like land [TS]

01:55:00   parties when I was in high school or [TS]

01:55:02   college or no modem cable parties when I [TS]

01:55:06   was a grade schooler and this is a [TS]

01:55:09   constant this is the first console that [TS]

01:55:11   I am aware of where that sort of thing [TS]

01:55:13   can happen in person really really [TS]

01:55:15   easily and without six associated TVs as [TS]

01:55:19   well I just thought it was extremely [TS]

01:55:21   cool yes well actually yes I'm aware [TS]

01:55:23   that the original Gameboy had like four [TS]

01:55:25   player games and things like that I but [TS]

01:55:27   you know what I mean where six people [TS]

01:55:29   show up with no cables whatsoever and [TS]

01:55:32   just start playing a game together it [TS]

01:55:34   was awesome and tremendously fun and if [TS]

01:55:37   you happen to know a couple of people or [TS]

01:55:40   even better a handful of people who all [TS]

01:55:42   have all have switches and all have [TS]

01:55:44   Mario Kart or maybe an equivalent game I [TS]

01:55:46   cannot recommend it enough [TS]

01:55:47   is so much fun have you done any of this [TS]

01:55:49   yet John I look for you online America [TS]

01:55:51   this weekend but you weren't around yeah [TS]

01:55:53   up and I mean I'm like I've played all [TS]

01:55:55   these tracks and done all these things [TS]

01:55:57   already but I played it to just see that [TS]

01:55:59   the new frame rate and the high-res [TS]

01:56:00   graphics and the new features of the [TS]

01:56:02   game what game was it again marikar date [TS]

01:56:05   Oh what was it again you're trying to [TS]

01:56:08   get me say Mary over and over again so [TS]

01:56:10   you can sound bored me and still marikar [TS]

01:56:13   date deluxe America a deluxe indeed [TS]

01:56:18   oh yeah and to try out the new the few [TS]

01:56:21   new features they added with the double [TS]

01:56:22   item boxes in the pink sparks and the [TS]

01:56:24   dreaded auto steer thing which you must [TS]

01:56:26   disable because it's terrible well it's [TS]

01:56:29   terrible for me it is good for the [TS]

01:56:30   people who it's intended for I would [TS]

01:56:33   have loved to have the speaking of the [TS]

01:56:34   auto drive thing it's not Auto Drive [TS]

01:56:37   it's preventing you from going off the [TS]

01:56:38   edge of the of the map and I used to try [TS]

01:56:40   to play Mario Kart with my kids probably [TS]

01:56:42   before they were quite old enough to be [TS]

01:56:44   able to do it and it was very [TS]

01:56:46   frustrating for them because they you [TS]

01:56:47   know they couldn't stay on the course [TS]

01:56:48   right I think they would have had more [TS]

01:56:51   fun with this version which has Auto [TS]

01:56:53   accelerate so you don't have to hold on [TS]

01:56:54   a and also they can drive all over the [TS]

01:56:56   course however they want they just can't [TS]

01:56:58   go off the edge it'll just as if there [TS]

01:57:00   are guardrails on the entire track and [TS]

01:57:02   that would really help them you know be [TS]

01:57:04   guided along but if you are an [TS]

01:57:06   experienced merit car player you don't [TS]

01:57:08   want this feature on because if you [TS]

01:57:10   barely get close to or touch the edge [TS]

01:57:13   and you weren't going to go off the edge [TS]

01:57:14   but you just happen to touch it it slows [TS]

01:57:16   you down tremendously it's like you know [TS]

01:57:18   it's like sandpaper so I would encourage [TS]

01:57:20   everyone to turn this feature off if [TS]

01:57:22   you're going for good lap times or [TS]

01:57:23   trying to compete in 200cc or whatever [TS]

01:57:25   you can't turn it off from the main [TS]

01:57:27   interface you have to actually start the [TS]

01:57:28   race and then once the race is started [TS]

01:57:30   go to the options screen then you can [TS]

01:57:32   turn it off and I'm pretty sure that [TS]

01:57:33   setting persists between launches the [TS]

01:57:35   game once you have turned it off now the [TS]

01:57:37   thing though with this is that it's very [TS]

01:57:39   different than playing online against [TS]

01:57:41   each other because we go when you're [TS]

01:57:43   playing online against each other you [TS]

01:57:45   can't unless you have like a phone line [TS]

01:57:46   open you can't really yell and scream at [TS]

01:57:48   each other like you can when you're [TS]

01:57:50   face-to-face and you can't see you know [TS]

01:57:53   the people who are steering their [TS]

01:57:54   switches even though they're not using [TS]

01:57:55   tilt controls their steering their [TS]

01:57:57   switches like steering wheels because [TS]

01:57:58   they can't help themselves you [TS]

01:58:01   you can't see that just don't just [TS]

01:58:03   delightfully taste just delicious [TS]

01:58:06   frustration when you nail the person [TS]

01:58:08   first place with a blue shell you can't [TS]

01:58:10   see all that online and and so although [TS]

01:58:13   the online play is also very good and [TS]

01:58:15   also generally just works it is just [TS]

01:58:18   magnificent to have a big group all in [TS]

01:58:20   person so if we do a podcast or family [TS]

01:58:23   New Year's again this year I print will [TS]

01:58:27   pretty much demand everyone bring their [TS]

01:58:28   switches in Mario Kart because it is [TS]

01:58:30   extremely fun also I noticed buried deep [TS]

01:58:33   within Nintendo's Mario Kart site and I [TS]

01:58:35   will not put a link in the show notes [TS]

01:58:36   because I will forget I'm too lazy to [TS]

01:58:38   find it you can actually play 12 player [TS]

01:58:41   local Mario Kart over Ethernet only [TS]

01:58:44   which I didn't even realize was the [TS]

01:58:46   thing so you would have an Ethernet port [TS]

01:58:48   no that's the thing you would have to [TS]

01:58:50   get 12 USB Ethernet adapters and a [TS]

01:58:53   router and 12 TVs because you have to be [TS]

01:58:55   docked to do it but you could play 12 [TS]

01:58:57   player Mario Kart in a LAN party [TS]

01:58:59   scenario that sounds like an incredibly [TS]

01:59:02   ridiculous manner setup but that sounds [TS]

01:59:05   awesome [TS]

01:59:05   how fun would that be that would be so [TS]

01:59:08   much fun yeah [TS]

01:59:10   but it to go back a sec John you were [TS]

01:59:12   saying you were looking for me over the [TS]

01:59:13   weekend didn't see me what are the [TS]

01:59:15   complaints I do have about the online [TS]

01:59:17   set up with the switch and maybe it's [TS]

01:59:20   user ignorance so maybe maybe I'm dead [TS]

01:59:22   wrong about this but I don't see any way [TS]

01:59:24   where you can like notify somebody else [TS]

01:59:28   I would like to play this game with you [TS]

01:59:30   you can say in Mario Kart that you're [TS]

01:59:32   looking for a friend that's online and [TS]

01:59:34   you can start a room that's intended or [TS]

01:59:36   I guess maybe the only two people that [TS]

01:59:37   can that can go into that room or say me [TS]

01:59:40   and you but there is no mechanism that [TS]

01:59:44   I'm aware of where you can like ping or [TS]

01:59:47   notify a person so let's say I'm playing [TS]

01:59:49   Mario Kart I'm actively playing Mario [TS]

01:59:51   Kart and John starts up his switch and [TS]

01:59:54   sees me online and says oh I'd like to [TS]

01:59:56   play KC I don't think I am ever notified [TS]

01:59:56   play KC I don't think I am ever notified [TS]

02:00:00   that you are asking to play with me [TS]

02:00:01   which is a real bummer because then you [TS]

02:00:03   have to like go to some other device to [TS]

02:00:05   orchestrate the thing and then back to [TS]

02:00:08   the switch to actually play and I feel [TS]

02:00:10   like that's a real shortfall which [TS]

02:00:11   really bummed me out but other than that [TS]

02:00:14   it's worked really well now that being [TS]

02:00:16   said yesterday we also did a group game [TS]

02:00:21   this time with seven players and I don't [TS]

02:00:23   know if it was because was over lunch we [TS]

02:00:25   were standing relatively close to [TS]