The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► would any executive who had other [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► options ever choose to eat a box lunch [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► like well it's like anything that's [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► executive so the name is always two [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► levels of status up from the thing [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► otherwise it wouldn't be a marketing [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► name you know [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► so executives would never have an [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► executive box launch 17-year olds don't [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► read Seventeen magazine and on and on [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► aspirational I don't think executives [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► have any form of lunch that comes in a [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► box they should call it executives sack [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► lunch like there there's literally there [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► is nothing they could put in that box [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► that would make that name seem [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► reasonable just filled with caviar sack [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► lunch the famous movie from Seinfeld [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► to begin with follow up today friend of [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► the show Daniel jacket has spent what [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► seemed to be a surprising amount of time [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► doing research on Mosconi lunches and [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► I'm glad that Daniel did it so we don't [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► have to he has looked up some [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► information about the Mosconi box [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► lunches we'll put a link in the show [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► notes there's a few highlights that I [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► wanted to call everyone's attention to [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► the quote executive box lunch quote is [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► $39.25 in the year 2017 according to [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► Daniel I love so much that this is [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► called the executive box yes the [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► executive box lunch I am not kidding I [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► mean in all fairness Craig federighi was [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► allegedly eating one of these things [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► backstage before talk show live and he [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► is an executive and so therefore I guess [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► that's aptly named but I tell you one [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► thing when all of us are getting it in [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► the big dining hall I sure don't feel [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► like an executive no seems like what [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► well it's not keep going case it because [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► it's not $39.00 does not include all all [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► the pricing and options included in this [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► special Porsha lunch if you want formats [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► and all four wheels and also a [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► transmission it cost more yes so [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► continuing on this is the description of [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► the executive box launch which Daniel [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► notes it's what he remembers from [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► dub-dub in and it sounds the same to me [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► so the description is as follows for [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► compartment includes compostable service [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► because California 25 guest minimum [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► sandwich wrapper entree salad includes a [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► choice of side salad dessert and fruit [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► to accompany your box lunches we suggest [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► adding assorted soft drinks and bottled [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► water okay so let's talk about so [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► drink some bottled water soft drinks of [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► water are not included a 22% service fee [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► as well as sales tax which is almost 10% [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► are also added to the price so that $39 [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► and 25 cents box box lunch comes out to [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► around $52 and you haven't had anything [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► to drink yet your and this is this is [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► Daniel writing want to really lose your [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► lunch [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► each bottled water is $5.25 coming to [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► $7.00 after service and taxes and this [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► is again still Daniel and Markos long [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► lost strawberry Seamonsters add Walla [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► which is probably classified as assorted [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► juices would set apple back an [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► additional eight dollars a bottle add it [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► all up and it's not hard to imagine the [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► meals and snacks are coming to $100 a [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► day or $500 a week per person nearly a [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► third of the $1600 WWDC admission fee [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► likely pays for food are you kidding me [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► with this garbage moving on I don't know [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► how the people who do it in San Jose but [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► how their box lunches compare but the [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► good news is the quote gourmet box lunch [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► from the caterers in San Jose comes in [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► at only $22 middle mineral waters soft [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► drinks juices in bottled water are a [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► mere four dollars and fifty cents each [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► so a considerable savings once they move [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► to San Jose on lunches alone how can you [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► spend one spend $500 a week on those [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► lunches like I was sitting here mostly [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► defending them the last couple episodes [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► they're not that bad you know they're [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► passable they work not at $500 for the [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► week are you friggin kidding me with [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► this insanity no no no hard pass no so [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► if they drop the price of the tickets by [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► $500 like this back to the people and we [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► all had to leave the building and find [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► someplace else to eat and to come back [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► I'm actually not sure that that would be [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► better for the conference you're like oh [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► just give me that 500 bucks I could [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► spend that in San Francisco but then you [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► gotta go find someplace to eat and I'm [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► not sure the eateries that you can get [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► to and back to the conference center in [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► time to get the after lunch sessions can [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► support that many people or are any [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► better so oh no they're better but they [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► probably can't support the people you're [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► probably right about that but they are [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► definitely [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► better I don't know I like a very [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► depends like you can go to the or [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► whatever that little mall thing it's [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► over there and I mean give me the mall [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► food court is better than the but is [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► better but you gotta wait in these long [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► lines and then you get your thing when [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► you gotta fight somebody then you get [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► back and that's like the closest [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► possible choice I'm I'm wondering I [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► would actually mostly be willing to pay [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► for the convenience of not having to [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► leave the the conference center while [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► eating lunches that I don't really like [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► because that convenience is what I mean [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► and obviously the ideal choice would be [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► to be able to get from someplace else [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► but as Daniel points out that is in [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► their rules you can't get food many [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► files in case it wasn't clear yeah there [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► is no choice Apple can't say oh we're [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► just gonna we're going to bring in you [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► know someone else Decatur nope not not [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► even an option it's just insanity to me [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► like how they can get fleeced that badly [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► it's not apples fault it's just the way [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► of the world but oh my goodness it is [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► just barbaric that that's the answer [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► well the way of the world in Apple Apple [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► world is like if Apple this bothered [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► Apple all that much just by Moscone like [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► you I saw it tweet as I was catching up [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► on my far behind in Twitter someone [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► saying that uh with its cash Apple could [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► buy all of the the Major League Baseball [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► NFL and NHL teams and still have a [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► hundred billion dollars left over is so [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► crazy now and then somebody well [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► actually that person and was like well [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► actually that doesn't account for taxes [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► but still the point stands like it's [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► preposterous [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► alright let's talk about a next iPhone [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► rumors we talked to the past that there [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► may be a touch ID bottom a button on the [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► back of the phone which some people [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► think is the end of times a lot of [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► people like myself think man whatever [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► but somebody a couple people actually [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► pointed out well what does this mean for [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► the home button then because a home [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► button on the back does not seem good so [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► how does that work and I don't know is [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► the answer but I would guess that there [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► is some sort of home button even a foe [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► home button on the chin of the front of [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► the phone I think that's what they've [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► probably started [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► the path of which with the immobile or [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► non movable whatever the word I'm [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► looking for is home button on the iPhone [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► 7 and maybe the whole thing becomes a [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► home button I'm not really sure but it's [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► certainly an interesting point I hadn't [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► considered that you know today touch ID [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► and home button are giel kind of [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► co-located but in the future maybe they [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► won't be so John what do you think about [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► this yeah I think they they will be [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► separate because it is more awkward to [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► press a button on the back of the phone [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► even a fake like non button I mean they [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► can have it there in addition I suppose [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► who's again it doesn't move it's not as [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► if they they have to make room for some [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► kind of mechanism and it's already going [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► to be this little cutout area but I [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► think they will continue to have a helm [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► button on the front of the phone now [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► whether that home button is virtual kind [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► of like the touch bar where it's just a [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► bottom section of the screen or [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► something like that there's lots of Bend [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► lots of rumors in the pass 11 and [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► recently about how the touch bar [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► technology of having this little [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► separate accessory screen controlled by [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► the OS and you know accessible perhaps [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► accessible to applications through an [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► API kind of like all you know the [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► Android soft buttons and stuff like that [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► might be a thing that would appear on a [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► phone but even if that is doesn't exist [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► at all the idea of there being a that [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► you could squeeze the bottom part of [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► your phone to go home like whether you [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► can want to consider that a button and [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► especially if it's completely embedded [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► in the screen and there is no it's just [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► a flat featureless piece of glass with [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► no little cut out a circle or whatever [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► we're still going to call that the home [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► button and I'm thinking that they're not [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► going to get rid of that no matter where [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► the touch woody Sentra goes so it's [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► basically a divorce of home button and [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► touch ID where the home button can stay [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► on the front but because of the because [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► of the way it's done in the edge to edge [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► screen and everything the touch ID [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► sensor goes on the back and we just [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► squeeze the bottom of our phones and I [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► think I would mostly be okay with that [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► too like an up to see have to try it for [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► a while to see if I miss the little [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► indented circle a lot of listeners wrote [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► in to express love for the little [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► indented circle as a way to feel like [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► which end of your phone is up or like [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► exactly where you have to squeeze but if [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► you can squeeze anywhere along the [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► bottom edge of the phone I guess then [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► your only problem is if you have your [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► thing upside down but I suppose you have [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► the Lightning port to check whether [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► that's the case anyway [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► it's pretty weird that [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► all of these rumors about the next phone [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► surround like actual important physical [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► changes to the exterior of the phone [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► because all the past phones including [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► like this you know six and seven [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► generations where it's kind of the same [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► on the outside had been about like what [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► does it look like and what are the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► materials but the design of it's a you [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► know a rectangle with a circle button on [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► the bottom that you press in to go home [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► and I guess the addition of touch ID [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► have been so constant this is the first [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► phone that's like that the story and [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► this phone is it maybe differently [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► shaped differently proportioned and [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► functionality on it may be moving around [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► in ways that has never moved around [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► before so that's that's kind of exciting [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► and you know kind of also a risky and [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► that like they have a model that works [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► here with this rectangle with the home [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► button on the bottom and they've [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► iterated and integrating refined and [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► iterated and at but base the basic [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► functions and stuff have been the same [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► aside from you know a case you mentioned [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► the last show that the power button [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► moved to the side which is somewhat [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► Explo by the increasing size of the [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► phone and difficulty people would have [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► reaching elapsed that's not but other [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► than that the phone design of the phone [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► has been pretty cocky on the headphone [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► that headphone jack moving from top to [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► bottom but the the physical design of [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► the phone has been pretty constant and [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► I'm kind of excited to see them you know [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► say all bets are off we're moving things [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► around and we're going to try something [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► new so I actually had a chance to play [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► with the Galaxy s8 a couple days ago in [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► a Best Buy [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► with the exception of it feelin too way [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► too tall for its width and it being hard [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► to reach things as a result I actually [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► really enjoyed like that how you know [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► the general like look of the edge to [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► edge on the sides screen and everything [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► and the way to the home button I just [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► kind of instinctively like forced [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► touched the lower area where the home [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► button would be on an iPhone and it [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► turns out that's exactly what they want [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► you to do and it just clicked and it [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► recognized any firm press in that area [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► as a home button click and so the very [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► first thing I tried worked and was [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► correct and then as I was playing with [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► it over a few minute that I did that [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► here and there a few more times and [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► every time it just worked exactly as [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► expected and even when there was [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► something on screen there you know [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► something from the foreground app that [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► is in that spot that you know if it [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► misinterprets it as a touch it would've [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► activated that thing but [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► every time it interpreted it correctly [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► and it was great it was totally fine so [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► you know if Apple's going to go in a [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► direction like that where part of the [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► screen just becomes the home button [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► I think they totally can we've seen with [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► the iPhone 7 force touch button that's a [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► possibility that's totally fine and and [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► now we see with the s8 that it it [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► actually really does work the only major [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► question I would have for it is how do [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► they show this to people like how did [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► how is it handled in the in the UI does [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► the usable area of the screen for apps [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► actually extend that far like it does on [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► the s8 or is there a little like you [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► know reserved or like you were saying [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► join like maybe like a touch bar like [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► you know API area down there where like [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► you know apps would only actually take [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► up like the middle 80% of the height and [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► you know maybe not the very top bottom [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► or something like that you know but [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► anyway that you know having having the [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► just bottom area of the screen except a [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► firm touch as a home button that works [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► just fine I was going to ask if there [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► are any accessibility implications for [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► that but I would suppose with that um I [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► figure what you call it but we talked [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► about it a lot like several months ago [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► where you have little on-screen button [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► that lets you do the home button in like [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► in all sorts of other gestures what [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► what's the name of the thing you know [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► what I'm thinking assistive touch I [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► think yeah is to touch something like [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► that thank you I was about to ask you is [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► this an accessibility issue but I would [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► suppose assistive touch would fix any of [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► those problems I'm not sure but it's a [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► change well the the issue would be that [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► you could no longer feel the button like [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► kids you know now you can feel that ring [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► you know so it's like Java say more [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► easily tell like which direction the [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► phone is oriented without without like a [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► physical depression on the front surface [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► where the home button goes it's harder [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► to tell which ways up by feel alone so [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► that that would be an issue for sure I [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► don't know how they would solve that [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► maybe you just start getting used to [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► feeling for like the camera bump or [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► other features in the outside I don't [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► know if it is a dedicated area they [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► could do haptics to make it do it the [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► tiniest little jiggle when your finger [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► is over the reserved bottom section of [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► the phone like there's all sorts of [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► things they can do that's interesting [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► playing playing switch games with it's a [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► little it's been a couple articles [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► recently about the the haptic engine in [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► the Nintendo switch which is looks like [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► the same tech [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► apples been using its phones what I [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► figure they're called linear [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► something-or-other or whatever but it's [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► it's better than the old vibrators and [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► more precise and they're using it in [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► games to make it feel like things on [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► screen have some kind of physical [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► presence and it's surprisingly easy to [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► fool us I mean just we just talked about [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► the home button last time like it [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► doesn't feel like a button but it feels [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► like a thing that we rapidly get used to [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► and come to accept as the physical [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► reality of the phone right and I think I [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► think the best thing would be like if [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► you could turn off I mean I suppose you [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► can't isn't there some way you to turn [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► off vibration can you turn off the [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► haptic engine entirely I would assume so [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► but I don't know yeah but anyway if it [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► did turn off our devices would feel [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► broken in a different way please like [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► this is not how my glass rectangle is [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► supposed to move or feel so adding [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► something like oh when when your your [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► finger physically touches the correct [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► bottom part of the phone it gives the [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► the tiniest little jiggle and that would [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► be a physical way for you to feel with [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► your hands which side is the top or [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► bottom of my phone it wouldn't activate [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► anything yet because you haven't [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► actually pressed but basically when your [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► feeling for that little circle you want [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► to know which side is up you need that [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► information you need at where I'd be [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► provided physically that little circle [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► is about as subtle as the little jiggle [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► could be and once you find which side is [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► up if the whole bottom of the phone [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► functions is one giant button it's even [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► easier to hit than that little circle so [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► that that problem is solved so real-time [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► follow-up to turn off system haptic [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► switch has a subtitle of play haptics [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► for system controls interactions that's [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► in setting sounds and haptics and then [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► there's options for vibrate on ring [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► vibrate on silent sound in vibration [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► patterns and all the way at the bottom [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► is system haptic switch is a switch yes [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► now does that turn off the home button [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► just switch them on find out no the home [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► button still does I have to click yeah I [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► presume because it would be really [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► really eerie if it didn't feel it would [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► feel broken I mean to us if were you [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► used to it it's like it's whatever you [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► used to but it would feel like it [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► doesn't it's not the same physical [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► device anymore right that's the thing [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► about haptic like though it's it's [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► faking a physical must this is it gets a [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► lot to my pet peeves that my you know [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► things being done in hardware on video [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► cards which is like now and increasingly [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► dated peeve from the 80s [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► mechanical keyboards that for a [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► drives me nuts because you know like [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► Topshop please show me the [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► non-mechanical keyboards [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► I can do that do you remember when they [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► used to have the ones that they would [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► like shine it looked like laser like a [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► laser keyboard but it wasn't actually [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► lasers I'm sure yeah and how did you use [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► and how did you use those keyboards [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► gazing uh you put your fingers on a [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► surah you take your finger and you move [TS]

00:16:00 ◼   ► it you mean you take a no no no missing [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► the point you're just shining light on a [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► surface say like on a desktop no John [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► saying your fingers the Machine I know [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► what thing you're talking about but you [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► can't activate it with your mind you [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► have to physically move your hands and [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► press them into certain areas you're not [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► the press but you have to place your [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► fingers into the zone where the keys are [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► that is a physical act the keyboard [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► itself is not moving John wait so like [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► when when a conductor waves the stick [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► around in front of a band is that [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► considered a mechanical device you know [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► yeah I I would say I don't know it's [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► difficult to say when you consider [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► mechanical because it's not like that [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► light is just being emitted naturally [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► from the desktop we need an episode of [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► mechanical or not this is this is [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► definitely a pretty broad definition of [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► mechanical that you're using huge right [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► yeah when people talk about really in [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► the context I'm saying people talking [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► about chemical keyboards they're they're [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► saying as compared to the keyboard that [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► I'm sitting in front of which is the [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► Apple aluminum extended which is 100% [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► mechanical the keys move at you know [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► making contact for the thing that causes [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► a signal but it's not a quote-unquote [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► mechanical keyboard it's a it's a very [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► strange interpretation can i nitpick to [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► your definition of 100% mechanical yeah [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► what part of it is a mechanical I'm [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► pretty sure there's like there's like a [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► USB controller in there and I'm like no [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► I mean the keyboard part of it means the [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► same thing with mechanical keyboards [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► when you're just activating a switch so [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► electronic it's not like it's steam [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► power it's like a typewriter where [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► you're hitting a lever that's causing a [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► big thing to whack into a piece of paper [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► that makes you a key Jason Snell can you [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► can you fix this for us so we don't have [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► to do I know a pebble mean when they say [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► mechanical keyboards is just a silly [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► phrase like it is it is a term that has [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► taken on this alternate meaning that [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► doesn't really make sense if you think [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► about it but it is accepted as a term of [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► art so we all just say it and don't [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► think about it [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► help me Jason Snell you're my only hope [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► but what what I was getting at before I [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► do wrap myself that reference was [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► but the the idea that that haptics are a [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► replacement for things like the physical [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► home button right when they're not you [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► know they they work by doing a physical [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► thing something in your phone is moving [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► causing you to feel that motion it's [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► just an entirely different motion than [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► the surface that you pressed moving [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► downwards relative this to the surface [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► surrounding it but something is moving [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► and it is and you are feeling it as a [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► physical sensation so it is an alternate [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► physical action to replace other [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► physical actions is not the removal of [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► like physical buttons with non physical [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► buttons because I would say the iPhone 7 [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► button is still a physical button when [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► haptics are turned on because you press [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► as a physical action and you tell that [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► your press has been registered or [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► successful because you feel a response [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► the response is not your finger getting [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► lower inside the thing but it is a [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► physical sensation and so this [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► distinction between physical and [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► non-physical controls as haptics get [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► better like maybe it'll be like [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► mechanical keyboards it's just that [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► that's the way we'll describe it and you [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► know we won't bother thinking about [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► whether it makes sense or not [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► but it is a clever way to make a device [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► more reliable while still doing the [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► thing that works best with humans we [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► have you know hands and fingers that are [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► sensitive and you know they're sensitive [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► to motion it's a good way to tell how [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► things are happening without looking at [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► them so you can put feel in your pocket [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► or Sokol you know physical buttons as [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► opposed to those on physical ones I can [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► feel what the volume controls are I can [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► feel what the power button is I can feel [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► where the home button is I can feel that [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► it has been activated I can physically [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► press it all that stuff plays to the [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► strengths of our hands and fingers which [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► is how we use our iPhones and so [TS]

00:19:36 ◼   ► anything Apple does related to that is [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► wise to to leverage those abilities in [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► the same way the touch bar tries to do [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► that but because it has no haptics [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► you're left with kind of a surface that [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► you have to look at more than you would [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► otherwise and you can press on it but [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► it's more like a touchscreen in that it [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► doesn't do anything when you press any [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► of those things which is another reason [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► a lot of people have difficulties with [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► touch bar is that it is replacing [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► buttons with some [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► that is less button like whereas I feel [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► like the iPhone 7 home button replace [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► the button with something that is it's [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► like an alternate take on a button but [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► it is you know it's like it's like they [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► replace the function keys on the MacBook [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► with the screen from the iPhone the [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► screen is not the same kind of a button [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► because they don't know where the [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► buttons are going to be but on the touch [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► bar seems like you could know they were [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► kind of you know anyway this is just my [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► mild musings on haptics but I think they [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► are long-term I think there's there's [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► legs [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► this whole haptic thing I mean you know [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► as Apple has been so excited and proud [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► to show it's a little you know how much [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► better the vibration is in each phone [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► and this haptic engine that they they [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► branded with this taptic stuff I think [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► they're actually onto something there I [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► think we'll just see more and more of [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► that from Apple and other companies [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► because it works with humans but they [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► could be apples slogan since they're not [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► doing the computer with the rest of us [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► anymore competing with the rest of us [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► anymore it works with humans TM we were [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► sponsored this week by Kasper and [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► obsessively engineered mattress at a [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► shockingly fair price go to Casper comm [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► slash ATP and use code ATP for $50 [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► towards your mattress Kasper created one [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► perfect mattress and they sell it [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► directly to consumers which eliminates [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► Commission driven inflated prices the [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► award-winning Casper mattress was [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► developed in house as a sleek design and [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► is delivered in a surprisingly small box [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► you can actually get it up your [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► staircase if you have narrow stairs and [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► they also offer adaptive pillow and soft [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► breathable sheets and the mattress [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► industry has been full of notoriously [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► high markups forever Casper has [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► revolutionized it by cutting the cost of [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► dealing with all these resellers and [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► showrooms and passing the savings to you [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► the in-house team of engineers spent [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► thousands of hours developing the Casper [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► mattress with supportive memory foams [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► for a sleep service with just the right [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► sink and just the right balance and the [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► breathable design sleep school to help [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► you regulate your temperature throughout [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► the night and they've made buying [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► mattresses online which sounds kind of [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► crazy completely easy and risk-free [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► here's how they do it they offer free [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► delivery in a wonderful box and free [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► returns within a hundred night home [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► trial so you can just sleep on it for [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► over three months and if you don't love [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► it they will pick it up [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► at your house and give you a full refund [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► it's that easy they understand the [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► importance of truly sleeping on a [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► mattress before you commit because [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► you're going to be spending a third of [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► your life on it now we've heard from [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► friends listeners who've all had great [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► things to say about the Casper mattress [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► Time magazine even named it one of the [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► best inventions of the year when it came [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► out so get yours today and try it for a [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► hundred nights in your own home with [TS]

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00:22:40 ◼   ► pickup completely all risk free go to [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► Casper comm slash ATP and use code ATP [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► for $50 towards your mattress thank you [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► very much to Casper for sponsoring our [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► show ah let's talk about a wiki Tribune [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► of which I know basically nothing and I [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► am failing at my job as chief summarizer [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► in chief so Marco I feel like I saw you [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► tweeting about this when it first broke [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► do you want to kind of fill us in as to [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► what wiki Tribune is about honestly I [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► barely know I just signed up because I [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► wanted to support this cause so John can [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► you give a better summary than that I [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► can this has been a no no it's like [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► three weeks people but I think I think [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► one place we can start is Marco with his [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► lack of knowledge why did you decide to [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► sign up for the what did you do by [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► signing up did you did you like have to [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► give money or pledge to give money like [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► what what it was the signup thing that [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► you did it's some kind of like pre [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► commitment type system like Kickstarter [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► but like I don't think they're gonna [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► charge me until they hit their minimum [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► or unless they hit their own in them [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► something like that but is a money thing [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► like yours you're supporting this effort [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► with money right yeah I signed up to [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► making monthly donation or whatever it [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► is - all right so what led you to do [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► that well basically there's a lot of [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► things about journalism these days that [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► I think are really dysfunctional or [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► broken and this seems like it could fix [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► some of them not all of them you know I [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► don't think it's probably possible to [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► fix all of them but this could fix some [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► of them in a fairly big way so if it [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► works that'll be great [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► if not you know I I lost a little buddy [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► on the way and then I'll stop losing it [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► when I cancel it that's it you know it [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► seems like a good cause I feel like all [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► of the Wikipedia donation prompts that I [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► think that I've ignored over the year [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► closed for the year is about giving I [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► feel like maybe I owe something to Jimmy [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► Wales's causes so here here I'm going to [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► finally make that good I guess so to go [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► back and give a vague summary of what [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► that this thing is it is from the [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► Wikipedia guy you've seen his face the [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► top of Wikipedia asking for money now [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► you can see his face on a different [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► website asking you for money for a [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► different thing so it has the pedigree [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► of you know Wikipedia which is a [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► tremendously successful community [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► platform for doing whatever is people do [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► on Wikipedia and this is about trying to [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► make the news better like Marco satis [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► give the same some of the same [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► complaints about news and the incentive [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► structures and how doesn't lead to good [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► information being disseminated and [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► there's lots of all anti patterns and [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► with how its funded and what gets [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► published and how its published and [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► versus what people want to read and you [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► know what sells ads and so on and so [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► forth so this is a sort of Wikipedia [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► style approach to news where it's very [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► open and transparent so you everyone [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► who's reading can see what's going on [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► there's no ads so you don't have to [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► worry about the entire thing being made [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► to you know to drive ad views which is a [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► problem in the web in general not just [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► sun news and everything like that and [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► like wikipedia is community oriented [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► where it's not just like these people [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► produce the content and the rest of the [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► world reads it everybody participates in [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► in theory making the things better [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► although there are professional [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► journalists involved as well so it's not [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► just like hey make up whatever you want [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► and publish whatever you want because [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► that's just called the web that's not [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► that's not and trying to you know be [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► transparent to the people who are giving [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► money like a you know how are they going [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► to fund all this through people like [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► Marco same way Wikipedia is funded how [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► does Wikipedia exist Jimmy Wales head [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► ask you for money every once in a while [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► and there are I'm swimming there [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► investors or stuff like that and they [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► have this kind of Venn diagram at the [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► top where it shows three circles and the [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► three circles our community facts and [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► journalists and wiki wiki Tribune is the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► confusing diamond-shaped intersection of [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► all three of those circles own when I [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► see the intersection between three [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► circles I don't get a diamond shape but [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► it's a logo that's some creative license [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► there it's fine yeah and so I think [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► Markos explanation of why he gave money [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► is is probably a lot of people gave [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► money it's like or you know because it [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► is like Kickstarter it's like you know [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► you you pledge money and if everything [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► goes well you will get charged for your [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► money or whatever no probably will this [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► is very popular but it seems like a [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► small amount and just like a Kickstarter [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► you're like I don't know if they'll ever [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► shut this damn cooler but it will cool [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► so yeah [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► spoiler alert like it's not a big deal [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► like if they never go anywhere or if I [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► fund it for a few months and it's not [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► that good whatever but I think there is [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► an appetite for an attempt to find a [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► solution to the fix all of you know it [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► journalism finds itself in at this [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► moment in transition between the old [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► world of newspapers and the way this [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► they were funded and the barriers to [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► entry in this new world where it's much [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► easier for more people to publish but [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► it's much harder to find ways to fund [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► content that isn't sort of lowest common [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► denominator you know because people go [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► what people want to read and what what [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► it we would be most beneficial to [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► society that if people were to read are [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► two very different things and that is a [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► you know the incentives are not aligned [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► if the only way you can get money is by [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► attracting people to read things you [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► will inevitably end up giving people [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► what they want which is not always what [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► they need which is a paternalistic view [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► that people hate like oh the people in [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► the ivory tower can determine what I [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► need to see why can't people just pick [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► what they need to see there's a balance [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► like I mean even even in the battle days [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► of my childhood when there was no [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► internet there were things called [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► tabloids that provided you same stuff [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► you can find on the internet now [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► something that stuff is like oh that [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► didn't exist before the Internet of [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► course it did like you know batboy found [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► the National Enquirer like you know [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► aliens are everywhere right that stuff [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► has always and will always exist and I'm [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► not even sure if it's any more prevalent [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► than it is today the difference today is [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► that the sort of slow motion decline of [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► the ivory tower we know it's best for [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► you were to apply a bunch of reasoning [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► rules that you don't know about or agree [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► with to try to provide what we think is [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► you know the news that's fit to print [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► and that has been in slow decline mostly [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► rightfully so because it's kind of a [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► concentration of power that is not you [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► know that is artificial you know [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► technological barriers to distribution [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► information causing you to exist but I [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► would also say that in this new world [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► where it's easier to just route [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► information a lot of people like Marco [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► and and me and I would imagine Casey are [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► less satisfied with how things are going [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► now that we want to go back at the old [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► ways because that was been in a [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► different set of ways but there there [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► are pathologies in the new structure of [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► news that we wish we could get rid of [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► it's like you know we all want to read [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► really good high-quality you know [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► journalism according to the you know the [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► system of journalism is like it's [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► something that most of us can agree upon [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► kind of like scientific method it's just [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► the question of it is a you know how is [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► it executed by fallible humans and how [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► do we provide the resources for it to be [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► executed and that's what this thing is [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► trying to provide now my my personal [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► grudge against disagreement with [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► indifference to Wikipedia as an [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► institution depending on how you want to [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► phrase it gave it caused me to have a [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► little snarky chuckle when I saw this [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► this Venn diagram here [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► it's like community journalists and [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► facts where I don't need to give me well [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► so like oh oh now you care about facts [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► Jimmy rails I thought it was just all [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► about verified villainy wait a sec it [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► and maybe they don't mean facts maybe [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► they actually mean verifiability but [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► that's the thing about journalism [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► journalism you know like they are [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► pursuing the truth of what happened it's [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► not enough for a journalist to say you [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► know is what you know one thing is for [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► reporters to say let me just tell you [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► what somebody said but journalists tried [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► to uncover the truth if they can find [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► out what really happened by talking to [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► more people and gathering evidence [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► that's part of journalism too and the [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► journalist is not going to call it a day [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► when they have quotes from three [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► prominent people about what happened the [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► journalists would like to know yeah but [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► would really happen right I know these [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► quotes are verifiable I know you said [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► this at this time [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► and this other paper publish this thing [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► but what really happened what are the [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► facts and that is an important part of [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► journalism that is not an important part [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► of Wikipedia is what community doesn't [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► care what the hell the facts are because [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► that's not what it is this tertiary [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► source I don't want to go off on my rant [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► about Wikipedia again so it's kind of [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► exciting to see this taking a different [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► slant on things but as I scroll down [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► through their plan and see like [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► journalists and commute and community [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► cooperating all I can think about is [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► like this is like a battle arena for [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► edit Wars it's like edit war is [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► distilled because if you think they're [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► edit wars on the Wikipedia page for you [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► know insert favorite controversial [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► political figure can you imagine what [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► the Edit wars will be like on literally [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► any actual current event news story in [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► the current political climate like [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► there's almost nothing you can put in [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► there you know articles being you know [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► fact checked and verified by journalists [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► and community community members working [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► side by side as equals and I just just [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► picture a giant arena with like people [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► with boards with nails sticking out of [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► them like I don't I'm not sure how it [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► can work and you say well look at [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► Wikipedia it works yeah I mean like you [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► know that that's the biggest example [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► like Wikipedia has the same issue you [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► know any any kind of you know political [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► topic also has a Wikipedia page and they [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► you know they've built systems and [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► policies and norms up around controlling [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► that problem there too and so you know I [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► think if you I think if anybody has [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► shown that they have the ability to [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► manage that part of this it's the people [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► who made Wikipedia and and who built [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► that whole community up so that I think [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► I'm actually not concerned about the [TS]

00:32:43 ◼   ► whole edit war problem I also do I also [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► don't really go to the graffiti is a [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► counterexample there's like no the fact [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► that so many pages on Wikipedia are [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► incredibly locked down because of the [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► Edit horrors almost to the point where [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► they become frozen in time which is kind [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► of ok for historical things but for for [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► pages that are ongoing they become the [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► sole domain of a very small number of [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► people who have even the ability to edit [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► page and everybody else is completely [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► locked out and yet still they have edit [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► wars and arguments about what goes up [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► like if not you can't do journalism in [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► that environment I feel like the [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► controversial pages on Wikipedia [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► our a not the best source for [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► information on their topics and B do a [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► terrible job of staying up to date and C [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► do not allow the input from the [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► community because they have to be walled [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► off they have to be cemented set in [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► stone guarded night and day [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► incredibly protected they become [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► ossified I think the best pages on [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► Wikipedia are the pages that few people [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► care about but you know the classic [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► example of being like lists of Pokemon [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► and stuff right [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► because oh I'll go K no one know well [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► maybe they're already wars in Pokemon [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► sorry if I'm big but like but pages that [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► are on more obscure topics because the [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► only people who edit and contribute to [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► them are the people who really are [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► interested in the topic no one cares [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► enough to vandalize it or edit them and [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► no one is there telling them what they [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► can and can't add and especially if they [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► don't have any kind of political or [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► factional angle again Pokemon may not be [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► great example they end up being filled [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► with all sorts of interesting and useful [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► information whereas the stories in any [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► topic that has any controversial at any [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► part of it that's controversial you're [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► better off just scrolling to the bottom [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► looking all the references and reading [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► all those than actually reading the [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► Wikipedia page so I mean I get what [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► you're saying about they have systems in [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► place but I think the system's negate [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► the advantages they're trying to do we [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► just fly every Wikipedia because every [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► page on Wikipedia is not a super duper [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► controversial page in fact very few of [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► them are so the vast majority wikipedia [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► is awesome when you just want to get a [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► quick plot synopsis of a particular [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► episode of Doctor Who in a particular [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► season that's on Wikipedia and you'll [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► find it quickly and the webpage won't be [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► gross or filled with ads and it's a [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► reliable source for that because no one [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► cares enough about to screw with it or [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► as reliable as any source could be but [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► when you go to any page having to do [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► with any controversial topic I feel like [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► like when's the last time you read a [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► Wikipedia page and a controversial topic [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► like I don't I don't even bother going [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► to them anymore like I would again [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► rather just scroll right down to the [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► references and read the you know primary [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► and secondary sources than this dystocia [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► Airy summary because it doesn't it [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► doesn't speak to me as a as a great [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► source of information well I mean keep [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► in mind that you know these days every [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► fact is a controversial topic even in [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► those days of things that you would [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► think wouldn't be and also that you know [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► wiki Tribune is is I think largely [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► probably not going to have this problem [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► because it's probably not going to be [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► that big of a deal if it does become a [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► big deal if it does actually start [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► attracting large amounts of traffic [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► then I think it will rise to the the [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► levels of you know these kinds of [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► challenges that Wikipedia has because [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► Wikipedia has been you know such a [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► massive you know traffic getter for so [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► long so you know it's ranked so well [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► everywhere but like wiki Tribune is [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► starting from zero it's starting from no [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► audience basically so it might be a [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► while before you had enough people to [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► matter and honestly I disagree with you [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► I think Wikipedia is as good as [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► something like this could be about [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► dealing with controversial things like [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► that you know it's it's a hard problem [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► but but the bar it depends on the [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► contrary I mean use the main controversy [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► I haven't use Wikipedia controversial [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► pages is the idea that the people who [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► hold the keys to power to the [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► controversial pages themselves tend to [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► be homogeneous and have various biases [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► let's say yeah that's a private and that [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► the system itself has no way to deal [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► with that like that it concentrates [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► power like I like I'm thinking of wiki [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► Tribune as perhaps an unintentional [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► backdoor way to get people to just [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► straight up pay for news which many [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► people the front-door way has been like [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► hey sign up for the New York Times [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► digital like can we can we make money [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► from people paying us to read our web [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► pages everyone's been trying to do that [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► it's really difficult the whole paywall [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► thing right wiki Tribune is like we're [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► open and free to everybody man fast [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► forward five years if they get super [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► popular and they lock everything down [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► and eventually it's like wait a second [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► this is just a newspaper where [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► professional journals do things and [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► people pay them and it's not a giant [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► community published thing it is like a [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► bunch of articles that nobody can add it [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► picks every single story about the [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► president is super duper controversial [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► and every one of them is super lock down [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► the only people get edited of the [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► professional journalists who get money [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► from the contributors and the five [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► people who all happen to be the same [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► type of person with the same type of [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► background who has the time and [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► inclination to spend all day on a wiki [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► Tribune and now it is just a weirdly [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► organized newspaper that you'll pay for [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► which wouldn't be the end of the world [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► because again that's things that people [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► have been looking for hey can we get [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► people to pay money to support News like [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► as opposed to wanting everything for [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► free and wanting every article to be you [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► know a click Beatty tabloid e celebrity [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► news kind of thing I guess if they do [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► that they're kind of a success but I [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► have a hard time envisioning a future [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► where that where [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► or they are wildly successful and yet [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► still still even open to the degree that [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► Wikipedia is open because unlike [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► Wikipedia pretty much everything a news [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► organization will report will attract [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► factions okay like like you said Marco [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► they could report on the weather and [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► people will yeah well we'll leave nasty [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► comments about you know climate denial [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► so that you know like that I can't think [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► of a top there's not even a human [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► interest story if I try to put something [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► about dogs and people won't like it like [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► nothing is safe in this climate so they [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► have their work cut out for them but all [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► this said I don't feel like I'm slamming [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► would be on the potential what it could [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► be [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► I didn't donate any money but I wish [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► them well because I also like Marco want [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► somebody to address this problem and no [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► one has it tried this proach no one with [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► of this caliber has a tried this [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► approach so we're not going to find out [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► if it works unless somebody does it and [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► so I'm like alright you know go forward [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► like I certainly the fact that facts [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► with a little arrow is a big circle in [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► the middle makes me happy by all means [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► go for that the other aspect of this is [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► say they succeed in producing what they [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► say they're going to produce and their [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► system produces good content do people [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► read it I guess [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► like is that something people want to do [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► I want to go to wiki Tribune because [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► they have they got their facts straight [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► I mean everyone wants a non-partisan [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► news source right now they don't know [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► everyone wants to hear their own their [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► own biases reflected to them and repairs [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► people want like I said something like [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► how do they get people to come and read [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► this like it was easier when you only [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► had a few choices and all those choices [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► had you know had systems in place that [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► constrained what could be talked about [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► which perpetuated you know tons of [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► systems of power in terms of whose [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► stories got to get told with what angle [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► on them so it was terrible in many many [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► ways but the good aspects of it were in [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► the areas where the system wasn't [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► completely aligned against hearing about [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► things that you know that we weren't [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► supposed to hear about there was an [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► expectation that for example the news [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► department and advertising were [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► separated from each other in some way [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► like that was part of the [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► suppose they work based on and that only [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► works if the news department isn't isn't [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► responsible for bringing in more money [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► if year after year after year and that [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► ship is long sailed so now it's like got [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► to make more money got to get more [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► viewers how do we do that tell them what [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► they want to hear and the cyclist goes [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► around around that's what this is trying [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► to resolve so say it resolves it and [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► they make real quality news but no one [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► ever comes and reads it they still a [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► success [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► maybe I don't I think I really think [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► this could be very popular because I [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► think somebody like that the two of you [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► guys and myself somebody like us who [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► wants to be informed but wants a very [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► level-headed take as to what's going on [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► I think this is a potentially pert well [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► maybe not perfect but a really great [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► answer to that need I agree with you [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► that I shouldn't have said everyone [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► wants this because a lot of people [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► probably don't want this but I also [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► think there's a lot of people that do [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► want this that do you want a [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► level-headed take on things that's why [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► for example in my RSS reader that I [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► rarely look at anymore my source of news [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► is the BBC because I have the BBC's us [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► coverage and I feel like that is the [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► least politically motivated news source [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► that I can find I don't need to hear of [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► better ones I don't really care if the [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► BBC is imperfect that's I'm not trying [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► to start a fight here oh they just [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► they're just reinforcing your biases [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► that's why you like them if it could be [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► very well could be that's what I thought [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► that's the situation I think we find [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► ourselves in wait wait what if your [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► biases are true in fact I'll say yeah [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► the idea here's the problem with it with [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► polarized marketplace is that you know [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► things don't exist in isolation say [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► there was a news source that would did a [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► really good job but did a really good [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► job of executing journalism classic [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► journalism the rule of journalism which [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► you know like the traditional rules of [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► journalism in terms of what you're [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► supposed to do as a reporter and what [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► your job is and isn't all separate from [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► you know editorial and opinion which is [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► a whole separate thing but just like the [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► plain straight up journalism reporting [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► thing there's still an editorial [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► function deciding what should and [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► shouldn't you cover how many stories in [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► topic a [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► the source and topic could be how many [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► how many stories about this aspect of [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► whatever like it's impossible to pull [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► yourself entirely away from that and [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► it's also impossible to think about what [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► your publication is doing in isolation [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► you exist as a publication in an [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► ecosystem with tons of other [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► publications and a lot of the ecosystem [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► is defined by how many people read or [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► you know watch or whatever consumed [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► these different publications and in that [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► environment that's why you see a lot of [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► like you know people on our side of the [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► world liberals or whatever being drawn [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► to liberal-leaning [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► publications because they see it as the [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► only possible way to counterbalance the [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► things leaning in the other direction [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► because we know those things that [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► leaning the other direction exist we [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► know what we all think they're terrible [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► and we know tons and tons of people use [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► them as their exclusive source of news [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► and so by providing it a neutral thing [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► it's like well that's all well and good [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► if we just want to know what's happening [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► but if we want to balance the scales and [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► that we have to have a left-leaning [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► publication and eventually like I want [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► to read the left-leaning thing because [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► all I hear all day from you know people [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► who I disagree with is them citing [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► they're super duper right-leaning things [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► and so don't lean and that's how you end [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► up with polarization SuperDuper [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► left-wing super duper right-leaning and [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► so I I don't feel like I want that I I [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► tried to find something that I think is [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► in the middle but like Casey with the [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► BBC I'm sure what I think is in the [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► middle is not actually in the middle and [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► really what I'm seeking is some you know [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► some it's not in the execution of the [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► journalism but in the choice of what [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► they're reporting about right or in the [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► choice of like you know what their [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► editorials are about and how they [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► apportion their coverage because that in [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► itself is is a political stance right so [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► when I read the Washington Post I feel [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► like here's good reporting here they're [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► still executing journalism according to [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► the old ways but what the Washington [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► Post decides to cover is decidedly [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► left-leaning in terms of the number of [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► stories on topic ABC and D right and I'm [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► okay with that but I would still you [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► know and I would still say the [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► Washington Post and even the New York [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► Times are examples of good executions of [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► classic journalism [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► but I would also agree that both of them [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► are quote unquote left-leaning as [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► compared to the choices of things and [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► headlines that the right leading [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► publications choose to cover and they're [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► they're a counterbalance right so if [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► there was something was really straight [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► up the middle I'm not sure that would be [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► doing much of a service because [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► especially if the two polar polarize [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► ends continue to be what they are unless [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► everybody at the ends it kind of agrees [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► like like the wikipedia wicked tribune [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► is like the tiebreaker right and as [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► marco pointed out before and we'll keep [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► going back to that is impossible in a [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► world where we can't agree on the facts [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► there is no it's like well we have we [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► have you know the this left-leaning [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► editorial selection and we have this [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► right reading editorial selection but we [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► all agree that the facts of water and we [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► keep your being right and be like no no [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► the right will say we don't agree on [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► facts at all and so what function is [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► what you tribune even serving there [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► unless it starts getting cited by the [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► newspapers which would be funny but [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► we'll see I mean at this point there are [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► people actually arguing whether to let [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► people die in our country who were sick [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► once because they don't have enough [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► money and they should therefore die that [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► is that is literally what we are arguing [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► about [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► I like the better in the 80s when they [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► have like sophisticated sophisticated [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► ideological arguments but they have [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► abandoned those now it's just like why [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► should you get to live like good point [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► they're evil person why should I get to [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► live what right do I have to life or [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► liberty or any kind of you know looking [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► for happiness that sounds crazy to me [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► yeah I mean it was your fault that you [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► got you know sick when you were a [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► teenager or something so therefore you [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► know the penalty for that should [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► obviously be death right I should try to [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► look like a child living right Marco [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► here I think of that yeah I mean look we [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► all did it right why can't you yeah you [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► know the Jimmy Kimmel son did you guys [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► watch that that monologue hoodie days [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► ago I heard enough about it that I [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► couldn't watch it I so I saw it fly by [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► I've been doing a couch to 5k lately and [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► and during one of the walking parts I [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► was like you know cruising through [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► Twitter as I was power walking probably [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► look like a moron [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► but be that as it may whatever day was [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► this this popped in the [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► earning onto my you know my world and I [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► watched it or listen to it I should say [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► I didn't watch any of it I listened to [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► it as I was like going between walking [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► and running and walking and running and [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► basically I was on the verge of balling [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► the entire time but if you're one of [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► those monsters that thinks that a [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► pre-existing condition is something that [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► you know just that's enough to [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► disqualify you that's cool um you should [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► read the ER you should listen to the [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► story about Jimmy Kimmel's son who was [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► born with a terrible heart defect and [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► were it not for some of the protections [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► I know we shouldn't be getting this [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► political but here we are without some [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► of these protections that I know it's [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► important you know like it's certain you [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► know we as we've talked about like [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► certain times politics your other world [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► events do bleed into relevance to all [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► people and I and I think this is one of [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► those times like this is a topic that [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► that is among many things so politicized [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► more than I think it probably should be [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► and I think a lot of that is [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► intentionally artificial to hide the [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► things that the politicians really want [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► to get accomplished which mostly have to [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► do with money for themselves and and you [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► know their their class of people and [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► their associates and lobbyists and [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► everything else so there's lots of that [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► stuff going on in the background here [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► and we're arguing about you know whether [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► people who have not been as lucky as [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► some of us should go bankrupt and die [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► because of that and that's that is [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► unconscionable yeah yeah so anyway so [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► this this Jimmy Kimmel thing it's a [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► little under 15 minutes it's worth every [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► second in my personal opinion and in [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► like I said I was on the verge of [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► balling the entire time I listened to it [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► but the short short version is his son [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► had a terrible heart defect he is now [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► fine and you if some of the changes to [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► American healthcare that have been [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► proposed pass then his son would never [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► be able to have health insurance for the [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► rest his life because he was born with a [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► problem with his heart so yeah I guess [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► the son should have been living in the [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► womb better and made better choices in [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► utero and then he wouldn't have this [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► problem right that's how this works yeah [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► they may listen to too much heavy metal [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► music who knows I mean and the thing [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► like this isn't [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► it's not like this is a theoretical it's [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► not like you know we think people will [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► go bankrupt and die because of this note [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► we know because that's how it was before [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► the ACA a lot of people went bankrupt [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► and died this is not a small thing this [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► is not an unknown it's very much known [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► we were there it was horrible we tried [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► to fix it as best as we could and it [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► wasn't perfect but the right fix is not [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► to go back to that we've seen it already [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► we've tried that I don't know why this [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► is even possibly a point of contention [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► well I dunno why really but it's not a [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► good reason yeah and one of the things [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► that um was fascinating by about having [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► this tweet that uh that I'd sent in in [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► January about the Affordable Care Act [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► which will link all this and show notes [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► but one of the fascinating things about [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► having a tweet that gets retweeted [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► 16,000 times is that everyone and their [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► mother comes and tells you about why [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► you're right why you're wrong and in the [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► tweet that I had tweeted read opposition [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► I've heard to the Affordable Care Act [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► number one it costs me money number two [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► it's not perfect support for the [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► Affordable gif that I've heard for the [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► Affordable Care Act number one I would [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► have died without the coverage [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► guaranteed which is what we're talking [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► about and man so many people came out of [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► the woodwork and like no you don't get [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► it it's about this it's about that one [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► person had said I forget how he phrased [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► it but something along the lines of I [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► shouldn't have to pay for people who eat [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► McDonald's all the time to deal with [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► their diabetes so okay III live health I [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► live a healthy life I shouldn't have to [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► pay for all these unhealthy people well [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► aren't you a winner but anyway after [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► just hundreds of stories about the [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► Affordable Care Act more it's great and [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► why it's terrible the only good opening [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► my estimation anyway the only good [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► answer I heard about why the Affordable [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► Care Act was bad was that some people [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► said well I make enough that I'm priced [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► out of all the subsidy tiers and I'm way [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► oversimplifying here but I I make enough [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► money that I'm priced out of all the [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► like super cheap tiers but I don't [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► really make enough to afford like the [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► the whatever the opposite scenario was I [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► forget what it what it is but basically [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► they were in this like- this really [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► terrible middle-of-the-road [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► here's an example this is somebody that [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► tweeted I pay more than I can afford for [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► insurance with the deductible too high [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► to matter it's that's pretty crummy and [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► that should get fixed but everything [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► else was like just people who basically [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► are looking for their fellow man to die [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► because they didn't want to pay for them [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► to live and that's just I don't [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► understand how this is a question how is [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► this a question right now I don't get it [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► that's the thing is like like there's [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► your that that sentiment of like why [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► should I pay for the people who aren't [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► healthy like that is such a toxic way to [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► think because like okay well let's [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► follow that through if that's what you [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► think that you don't that you shouldn't [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► have to pay for people who are you know [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► who do things that you don't like or [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► whatever and that makes them unhealthy [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► even though a lot of times they can't [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► help what has made them unhealthy but [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► anyway suppose you don't want to pay for [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► it okay [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► what should the penalty be for someone [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► who does this thing you don't like who [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► can't afford it is that punishable by [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► death is is that an appropriate you know [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► penalty like literally like that's like [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► is that is that your actual position [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► like if that's what you think don't ask [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► questions you don't want the answers to [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► is they would say yes of course they're [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► getting what they deserve that's exactly [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► what they say I mean if these people [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► actually think that way I think they [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► should own that I think they should come [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► right out and say yes I think all these [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► people who who can't afford the health [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► care should die like if that's what they [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► think let's let's bring that discussion [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► let's see how that discussion goes in [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► the hotel we have people in Congress [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► owning that at this point that's true I [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► don't think it's that a position people [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► are shrinking from and I mean but and [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► the thing is like you can apply that [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► kind of thinking you know I should I [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► have to pay that to everything that [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► government provides like that's kind of [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► the whole nature of government like it [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► provides a bunch of services with with [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► people's tax money most of which you [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► know like any given person probably [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► doesn't directly use a lot of these [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► services but they've also benefit from [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► lots of other ones and it's a different [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► pool for each person you know and that's [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► the role of government like why should I [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► pay for a giant military that starts [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► wars I don't want well that's just part [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► of the government like its it it's part [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► of our system we vote for things and [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► that you know this is what happens and [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► and sometimes our votes even are counted [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► properly and equally and I just this [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► this is so toxic and I [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► I wish I I wish I knew what it was that [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► made people so hateful everybody else [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► really like maybe it's just because [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► everyone else listens to way less fish [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► than I do but I just cannot possibly [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► understand what it is that makes someone [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► think to themselves oh I would those [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► people don't deserve to live [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► like I I don't I don't get that at all [TS]

00:53:46 ◼   ► and that's what makes me really sad that [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► that that is such a prevalent attitude [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► as well as they hearkened back to the [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► the days of the 80s when it was commonly [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► accepted that the goal was to make [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► people healthier and the only argument [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► was about how best to do that the [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► free-market can do it know the [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► government could do it know the [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► government is inefficient and bloated [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► and we will have a better system of [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► without competition and bla bla black [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► that was levelled the argument that was [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► going on right and these days that is [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► not like the level the argument that the [TS]

00:54:18 ◼   ► accepted premises of trying to get [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► everybody as healthy as possible like [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► people barely on the right give you know [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► barely make faints in that direction [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► like they're not even interested in [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► saying you don't understand this way [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► people will actually be healthier fewer [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► people will die like everyone will you [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► know then that's they'll they'll say [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► that at the broad level but they will [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► not make they will not actually show how [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► the numbers add up they will not show [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► their math I will not say look here's [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► what we say even if it's just bs [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► predictions BS sort of trickle down any [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► predictions if we allow this to happen [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► and this competition happens here and [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► there what's going to happen you know [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► let me show you my BS model with BS [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► predictions that are going to do that [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► feel like we don't need to do that we [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► just wave our hands and you know pick [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► one person against the other and get [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► boat do what it takes to get this past [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► and then you know then we end up with [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► what we end up with I miss I miss the [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► the pretend intellectual debates is what [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► I'm saying [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► I just I don't get it just makes me so [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► sad like it's it's just I don't [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► understand how any intelligent human [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► being with three brain cells to rub [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► together can think that the Affordable [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► Care Act is bad I just don't get it like [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► oh it's not perfect no it is bad I mean [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► it's but but it's you know it's like [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► what should we move to something worse [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► I'm gonna say no we say no we shouldn't [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► do that right the whole like you know [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► perfect enemy of the good thing like you [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► know healthcare is is a hard problem [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► it's really expensive to provide health [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► care for people that has to be paid for [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► somehow whether you're you know whether [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► it's people paying themselves or whether [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► it's government single-payer to kind of [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► things or some kind of weird thing [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► between like what we have now like it's [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► just it's a hard problem it's a really [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► hard problem but that you know the ACA [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► took this really hard problem that was [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► really in a bad state before and made it [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► less bad and yeah the cost went up we [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► are all paying more now for worse [TS]

00:56:16 ◼   ► coverage but that was happening anyway [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► anybody who was actually paying for [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► their coverage before the ACA saw that [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► trend already in fact with the ACA I'm [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► I'm still now paying less than what I [TS]