The Accidental Tech Podcast

223: Throw the Fork Away


00:00:00   out of curiosity he can choose my dances [TS]

00:00:02   what did we conclude with regard to [TS]

00:00:03   headgear for the live show did we ever [TS]

00:00:05   reach a conclusion you have to wear your [TS]

00:00:07   retainer Casey yeah I'm definitely [TS]

00:00:10   wearing headphones I don't care how [TS]

00:00:11   nerdy I look you guys are welcome to [TS]

00:00:13   make that choice for yourselves should [TS]

00:00:15   have you should have headphones [TS]

00:00:16   available for us put them on the table [TS]

00:00:18   in front of us we can choose to put them [TS]

00:00:20   on or not it really for me it depends on [TS]

00:00:21   whether it's weird for me enough to be [TS]

00:00:24   able to hear myself or whether just the [TS]

00:00:25   the in room speakers will be enough and [TS]

00:00:27   hearing the audience and so I'll just [TS]

00:00:28   I'm going to make up the call at the [TS]

00:00:30   moment to see what it's like and try it [TS]

00:00:32   without first and if it's weird up in a [TS]

00:00:33   month okay so what I'm hearing is I will [TS]

00:00:36   bring a pair of scissors and hundreds of [TS]

00:00:38   dollars to refund Marko for the [TS]

00:00:40   headphone the headphones that I break if [TS]

00:00:43   John tries to put them on no I myself [TS]

00:00:45   not gonna put them on you I know but it [TS]

00:00:48   but if you put them on and Marko has him [TS]

00:00:49   on what am I gonna be the lone cool kid [TS]

00:00:51   nah you can totally you're your own [TS]

00:00:52   person you I'm not the boss of you you [TS]

00:00:55   do what you want with your own head Ian [TS]

00:00:58   McDowell writes in this is he he is not [TS]

00:01:01   an apple genius but apparently heard [TS]

00:01:03   from an apple genius if I understand [TS]

00:01:05   this correctly that the key caps on the [TS]

00:01:07   new scissor key keyboards are not [TS]

00:01:10   removable dirt commonly gets under the [TS]

00:01:13   keys and they now have special tools in [TS]

00:01:15   the stores to help fix them I would love [TS]

00:01:17   to know what the special tools are so [TS]

00:01:19   like tiny nano machines they send in [TS]

00:01:22   through those little cracks in the keys [TS]

00:01:23   and there they grab little pieces of [TS]

00:01:25   dirt and come out like actually it's a [TS]

00:01:27   it's a it's a magical School Bus that [TS]

00:01:29   they drive ruined used to clean things [TS]

00:01:31   up uh speaking of the keyboard and [TS]

00:01:34   cleaning it there is actually and uh [TS]

00:01:36   what did it did Steve Hackett send this [TS]

00:01:39   to us somebody sent this to us there's [TS]

00:01:41   actually a knowledgebase article so I'll [TS]

00:01:42   just assume it was Steven that's [TS]

00:01:44   entitled to clean the keyboard of your [TS]

00:01:46   MacBook Retina 12-inch 2015 and later uh [TS]

00:01:49   and it describes holding your MacBook at [TS]

00:01:52   exactly 75 degree angle things that is [TS]

00:01:54   very important you hold the day this [TS]

00:01:56   does not work [TS]

00:01:57   forget ninety forget it what are you [TS]

00:01:59   even doing 75 obviously I'm joking but [TS]

00:02:02   it really does show a 75 degree angle [TS]

00:02:04   and with a little diagram of what that [TS]

00:02:06   looks like I mean it's kind of I don't [TS]

00:02:08   know if that's really 75 someone get [TS]

00:02:09   your protractor but but anyway they're [TS]

00:02:11   very insistent about the degree [TS]

00:02:13   yeah and so then you use compressed air [TS]

00:02:15   to spray the keyboard or just the [TS]

00:02:16   effective keys in a left-to-right motion [TS]

00:02:19   very important then rotate your MacBook [TS]

00:02:21   to its right side and spray the keyboard [TS]

00:02:23   again from left to right and they have a [TS]

00:02:25   little diagram you rotate it to your [TS]

00:02:26   left side this will not work point what [TS]

00:02:28   warranty voided right exactly so anyway [TS]

00:02:31   so yeah they have this whole process [TS]

00:02:33   that apparently amounts to blow crap out [TS]

00:02:35   from under the key caps and that is an [TS]

00:02:37   actual knowledgebase article so in in [TS]

00:02:41   the time since our last show uh I have [TS]

00:02:44   my whole rant about the heat and the [TS]

00:02:46   keys right well that was less yeah the [TS]

00:02:47   expanding like when it gets warmer [TS]

00:02:49   weather you thought maybe the keys are [TS]

00:02:50   expanding and filling the openings more [TS]

00:02:52   and getting stuck so I've actually so I [TS]

00:02:54   I went on a little Twitter rant about [TS]

00:02:56   this almost a week ago and I heard from [TS]

00:02:59   a lot of people up who have who have [TS]

00:03:03   computers with the new keyboards and it [TS]

00:03:05   actually seems like this might not be as [TS]

00:03:07   much of an issue on the MacBook ones [TS]

00:03:09   keyboard the the first generation of [TS]

00:03:11   this on the 12 inch but it seems like [TS]

00:03:13   this is a major issue for a lot of [TS]

00:03:15   people and you know and when I say a lot [TS]

00:03:18   of people I'm saying like I've heard [TS]

00:03:19   from a lot of people on Twitter that [TS]

00:03:20   doesn't mean that like a large [TS]

00:03:22   percentage of customers have this [TS]

00:03:24   problem only Apple knows that but it [TS]

00:03:27   certainly seems like this is a [TS]

00:03:28   noteworthy problem that Keys get stuck [TS]

00:03:32   or feel different or get stuck down or [TS]

00:03:35   repeat or or somehow don't work properly [TS]

00:03:38   on a pretty regular basis with with [TS]

00:03:41   largest keyboards a lot of people have [TS]

00:03:42   to get them replaced and also it seems [TS]

00:03:45   to be related to heat that when they are [TS]

00:03:48   warm when either either when the [TS]

00:03:50   computer is working really hard so it's [TS]

00:03:52   getting warm or if you're in a hot [TS]

00:03:54   environment like I was when I was having [TS]

00:03:56   this problem I was I was outside on a [TS]

00:03:57   hot day and the keys tend to stick a lot [TS]

00:04:01   more than and so I don't know enough [TS]

00:04:03   about the way these are built to know [TS]

00:04:04   why that is you know some of the Twitter [TS]

00:04:06   people were speculating that maybe like [TS]

00:04:08   the tolerances are so tight that maybe a [TS]

00:04:10   little bit of thermal expansion is [TS]

00:04:11   enough to make it not work properly I [TS]

00:04:13   don't know but it does seem like that's [TS]

00:04:16   kind of a problem if that's true [TS]

00:04:17   that's you like a big problem so I don't [TS]

00:04:21   really know what the answer here is I [TS]

00:04:25   hope that Apple is [TS]

00:04:26   doing so many replacements of these [TS]

00:04:28   keyboards under warranty that it [TS]

00:04:30   motivates them to change things if they [TS]

00:04:32   can the only question is can they or are [TS]

00:04:35   they going to have to wait until the [TS]

00:04:36   next major revision of the keyboard in [TS]

00:04:39   new in new laptops entirely and everyone [TS]

00:04:42   who owns this generation might just be [TS]

00:04:43   out of luck and just might have to get [TS]

00:04:45   frequent keyboard replacements and I [TS]

00:04:47   hope that's not the answer because [TS]

00:04:49   that's not a good answer and as an owner [TS]

00:04:51   of one of these I'm really not happy [TS]

00:04:53   with this [TS]

00:04:55   the idea that I'm going to have to bring [TS]

00:04:58   it to Apple at least once and go without [TS]

00:05:00   it for like a week at least once to get [TS]

00:05:03   this keyboard fixed I want to work [TS]

00:05:05   reliably that is not very appealing to [TS]

00:05:07   me because I buy a laptop because I need [TS]

00:05:10   a laptop and going without it for a week [TS]

00:05:12   is usually not very convenient not to [TS]

00:05:14   mention having to get an appointment [TS]

00:05:16   with Apple or call them wait on the [TS]

00:05:18   phone and do mail order or whatever else [TS]

00:05:20   like none of these are good options [TS]

00:05:22   none of these are great solutions to [TS]

00:05:24   what should be a pretty basic thing [TS]

00:05:26   which as I expect the keyboard of my [TS]

00:05:27   laptops to work reliably and this is all [TS]

00:05:31   like feeling aside like we've talked at [TS]

00:05:33   length about how much we like or dislike [TS]

00:05:37   mostly does like the new you know [TS]

00:05:39   shallow keyboards and I've heard from [TS]

00:05:42   people who defend them who like the feel [TS]

00:05:44   and that's fine that it's it's a [TS]

00:05:45   personal preference the feel of the [TS]

00:05:47   keyboard doesn't bother me as much as it [TS]

00:05:48   used to and now they've used it for a [TS]

00:05:50   while but what does bother me is [TS]

00:05:52   reliability being verb being bad and I [TS]

00:05:54   think regardless of what you think of [TS]

00:05:57   the feel of the keyboard I think we can [TS]

00:05:59   probably all agree that in that an [TS]

00:06:02   unreliable keyboard in a laptop [TS]

00:06:04   especially such a young laptop is really [TS]

00:06:07   worrying if it was just me then that's [TS]

00:06:10   fine and you can you can disregard it I [TS]

00:06:13   would disregard it as well I got a bad [TS]

00:06:15   keyboard and you know just get it fixed [TS]

00:06:16   but from what I keep hearing from people [TS]

00:06:19   over and over and over again when I [TS]

00:06:21   bring this up a lot of people have had [TS]

00:06:23   to get multiple replacements and the [TS]

00:06:26   replacements have the same problem and [TS]

00:06:27   so it just seems like it's a design flaw [TS]

00:06:29   and that's a pretty big design flaw I I [TS]

00:06:31   hope that this is smaller than it seems [TS]

00:06:35   I hope that I can just get it replaced [TS]

00:06:37   once and then [TS]

00:06:39   have a reliable laptop keyboard for the [TS]

00:06:41   next you know one to four years that I [TS]

00:06:44   use this laptop whatever it ends up [TS]

00:06:45   being I hope that's it but so far what I [TS]

00:06:49   have heard is discouraging in that area [TS]

00:06:51   it sound that this might just be a [TS]

00:06:52   problem with this entire generation of [TS]

00:06:54   keyboards in the 2016 MacBook Pro this [TS]

00:06:58   is solvable if they you know if Apple [TS]

00:07:01   figures out what the problem is like [TS]

00:07:02   they you know they diagnose this and [TS]

00:07:04   they figure it out and say aha if we [TS]

00:07:06   change design in this way change a [TS]

00:07:08   different material make little bits of [TS]

00:07:11   the key differently shaped or larger or [TS]

00:07:13   smaller or whatever it takes make the [TS]

00:07:15   key caps themselves slightly smaller [TS]

00:07:16   this all seems like something that could [TS]

00:07:18   be solved by it kind of like they did [TS]

00:07:20   with the screen image retention where [TS]

00:07:22   it's like oh we sold you a bunch of you [TS]

00:07:24   know retina MacBook Pros and if you got [TS]

00:07:26   the lg screen or the Samsung screen I [TS]

00:07:28   can't remember which one was the bad one [TS]

00:07:29   you might have energy tension problems [TS]

00:07:31   they don't fix it by giving you another [TS]

00:07:33   one of the same screen that image [TS]

00:07:34   mention problems they give you a [TS]

00:07:35   different better screen that still [TS]

00:07:38   fulfills the same purpose has the same [TS]

00:07:40   resolution in the same characteristics [TS]

00:07:41   but doesn't have burnin but it's like a [TS]

00:07:42   different part either a new part from [TS]

00:07:44   the same maker or apart from a different [TS]

00:07:46   manufacturer so if they figure this out [TS]

00:07:47   with a keyboard it will make a new [TS]

00:07:49   keyboard that fits these things and when [TS]

00:07:51   you come in for a repair they'll replace [TS]

00:07:54   it with the new version it's just a [TS]

00:07:55   question of how long it takes them to [TS]

00:07:57   figure out what the heck the problem is [TS]

00:07:58   assuming it even is a problem according [TS]

00:08:00   to their numbers well first first of all [TS]

00:08:02   to save you a bunch of email image [TS]

00:08:04   retention 15-inch 2012 retina MacBook [TS]

00:08:07   Pro screens they didn't guarantee that [TS]

00:08:09   you got a better one like the LG was the [TS]

00:08:11   problem the Samsung was the good one [TS]

00:08:12   when you got it replaced you could get [TS]

00:08:14   either one it was just kind of dumb luck [TS]

00:08:15   which one you got and you just hope you [TS]

00:08:17   got the Samsung panel well I but they [TS]

00:08:19   could they could do that like nothing if [TS]

00:08:20   they no one's good in one's bad assume [TS]

00:08:22   well that's even true like that's our [TS]

00:08:23   that's our conventional wisdom of like [TS]

00:08:25   oh if you got this one you're okay and [TS]

00:08:26   if you got this one you're not but [TS]

00:08:28   assuming they know one is better they [TS]

00:08:30   have the option what I'm saying is they [TS]

00:08:31   have the option of gaming they don't [TS]

00:08:32   have to redesign the thing you don't [TS]

00:08:33   have to wait for the next model if Apple [TS]

00:08:35   knows replace this part with this other [TS]

00:08:37   part that is different and it will fix [TS]

00:08:40   the problem they have the ability to do [TS]

00:08:41   that with you're not you're not out of [TS]

00:08:43   luck that's what I'm saying with this [TS]

00:08:44   thing you don't have to wait until you [TS]

00:08:45   buy the Mexican periodic returns one and [TS]

00:08:47   get a different one you just need Apple [TS]

00:08:49   to a make an improve thing and B [TS]

00:08:52   actually give it to you in their place [TS]

00:08:54   when it comes to you know moving along [TS]

00:08:56   with Apple moving along with the newest [TS]

00:08:58   technologies and and getting the newest [TS]

00:09:00   stuff and keeping up with Apple you have [TS]

00:09:03   to swallow some things you have to okay [TS]

00:09:05   yeah I guess I'll get rid of my [TS]

00:09:07   headphone jack you know I guess I can [TS]

00:09:09   get rid of all my ports and my SD card [TS]

00:09:10   reader and everything else and a lot of [TS]

00:09:12   these things are easier or harder to [TS]

00:09:15   swallow having a keyboard not be [TS]

00:09:18   reliable is a massive problem like I [TS]

00:09:22   don't care what you think of this [TS]

00:09:24   keyboard having it not be reliable for [TS]

00:09:26   almost everyone who buys one that is [TS]

00:09:29   unacceptable that is not a trade-off [TS]

00:09:31   that is not moving towards the future [TS]

00:09:33   that is not like there's no excuse for [TS]

00:09:35   that that is a design flaw and that [TS]

00:09:37   needs to be fixed yeah I I really want [TS]

00:09:41   to tell you that you are especially [TS]

00:09:43   early on there being a big baby about [TS]

00:09:45   the keyboard and how you didn't like it [TS]

00:09:47   blah blah blah but you know you're [TS]

00:09:48   allowed your opinion that's fine however [TS]

00:09:50   I could not agree with you more that if [TS]

00:09:52   V if these reliability problems are as [TS]

00:09:54   widespread as they anecdotally seem to [TS]

00:09:57   be then this is definitely a step [TS]

00:09:59   backwards and needs to be addressed [TS]

00:10:01   alright moving on if you do have a [TS]

00:10:04   problem with your keycaps there are some [TS]

00:10:07   people that apparently do remove them [TS]

00:10:10   without breaking them according to a [TS]

00:10:12   somewhat shady uh YouTube master risk [TS]

00:10:15   asterisk at the edge without breaking [TS]

00:10:18   the biggest well will continue to the [TS]

00:10:19   next volume but this is a video of [TS]

00:10:20   someone showing you how he can price he [TS]

00:10:22   cap off with a guitar pick and kind of [TS]

00:10:24   how they work under the cover so you can [TS]

00:10:26   kind of visualize what it is that you're [TS]

00:10:28   doing when you pry this thing up so some [TS]

00:10:32   people are doing it yeah it's a thing [TS]

00:10:34   but I would certainly wouldn't recommend [TS]

00:10:35   it that was sending by kuba be [TS]

00:10:38   additionally Michael M writes in [TS]

00:10:41   regarding the fragility fragility of the [TS]

00:10:44   new keyboard types and how they differ [TS]

00:10:45   from the days of rolled here are some [TS]

00:10:47   photos of the damage key caps so far [TS]

00:10:49   that I've replaced and we'll put a link [TS]

00:10:51   in the show notes there are four [TS]

00:10:53   pictures here of what appears to be four [TS]

00:10:56   different or three different key caps [TS]

00:10:57   and a scissor switch that have been an [TS]

00:10:59   issue note the clips at the top each top [TS]

00:11:01   corner should have two fingers to clip [TS]

00:11:03   around a pin on the butterfly and hooks [TS]

00:11:06   at the bottom to remove the [TS]

00:11:07   keys must be pried up at the top and [TS]

00:11:08   then removed by moving the capped or at [TS]

00:11:10   the top of the keyboard [TS]

00:11:11   anything else break the fragile clips as [TS]

00:11:13   well anything as well any misalignment [TS]

00:11:15   and reassembly I only broke the pins off [TS]

00:11:16   two butterflies why damage to at least [TS]

00:11:18   70 caps I first generation MacBook Wan [TS]

00:11:20   I've had it since shortly after release [TS]

00:11:22   my F and key worked properly but didn't [TS]

00:11:24   return to its full height correctly from [TS]

00:11:25   new I ignored the issue turns out that [TS]

00:11:27   key cap had been broken for years the [TS]

00:11:28   bigger and more concerning issue which [TS]

00:11:30   is why I've not yet made a second or [TS]

00:11:33   third round of key cap and butterfly [TS]

00:11:34   replacement part purchases is that a [TS]

00:11:35   couple of keys I'm having difficulty [TS]

00:11:37   with do not have any apparent physical [TS]

00:11:38   damage to the key cap or the butterfly [TS]

00:11:40   and they do not have any bit stuck under [TS]

00:11:42   them that that can be seen upon very [TS]

00:11:44   close inspection so I still dearly [TS]

00:11:47   regret taking these key caps off this [TS]

00:11:48   isn't a keyboard to be worked on by an [TS]

00:11:50   expert its keyboard to be worked on by a [TS]

00:11:51   trained expert with this with a spare [TS]

00:11:54   parts stash that's the lesson of all [TS]

00:11:57   portable devices like everything that [TS]

00:12:00   you know Apple increasingly the things [TS]

00:12:02   that are assembled with glue or the [TS]

00:12:04   one-way assembly where it goes together [TS]

00:12:07   but it does not come apart and go back [TS]

00:12:10   together the same way it was maybe you [TS]

00:12:12   can take it apart and maybe you can put [TS]

00:12:13   it back together but it will never be [TS]

00:12:15   the same and so the idea of like oh I'm [TS]

00:12:17   a do-it-yourselfer I can pry these he [TS]

00:12:19   caps off I can see how they work you [TS]

00:12:21   look at these pictures and look at the [TS]

00:12:22   size the sort of the feature size in the [TS]

00:12:25   and you know silicon chip parlons how [TS]

00:12:27   small the little Clippy things are on [TS]

00:12:30   the bottom of this and the tiny little [TS]

00:12:32   pins on the on the butterfly switch that [TS]

00:12:34   they grip very very small very delicate [TS]

00:12:37   right and so if you are thinking about [TS]

00:12:39   prying these things off the possibility [TS]

00:12:42   that you're going to break off or bend [TS]

00:12:44   or otherwise screw up one of those clips [TS]

00:12:46   or one of those pins seems very high [TS]

00:12:48   which is probably why Apple doesn't like [TS]

00:12:50   repair these keyboards they give you a [TS]

00:12:51   whole new one was not a last show [TS]

00:12:52   someone said it's not designed if [TS]

00:12:54   they're going to fix one key view they [TS]

00:12:55   inter placed all keyboard as far as [TS]

00:12:56   that's true yeah it this doesn't seem [TS]

00:12:59   like a repairable thing now an apples [TS]

00:13:02   you know knowledgebase article they tell [TS]

00:13:05   you how to blow compressed air on it to [TS]

00:13:07   maybe get the grit out you know because [TS]

00:13:08   it's not going to shake out on its own [TS]

00:13:10   because all the gaps are so small and [TS]

00:13:11   that might solve your little grit type [TS]

00:13:13   problem but the other interesting thing [TS]

00:13:16   about Michael story here is that he had [TS]

00:13:18   a key that had one of the little Clippy [TS]

00:13:20   things underneath it [TS]

00:13:21   broken you know from the I'm not sure [TS]

00:13:23   how he knowses because maybe he broke [TS]

00:13:24   him when he took it off or whatever but [TS]

00:13:25   that it hadn't been working and and he [TS]

00:13:29   had just been ignoring it and it had [TS]

00:13:30   been broken for a really long time [TS]

00:13:33   if these little Clippy things are broken [TS]

00:13:35   under one of your key gaps you can't [TS]

00:13:36   know that it's like if x-ray vision like [TS]

00:13:38   maybe that could explain why it's not [TS]

00:13:39   working because the little Clippy things [TS]

00:13:41   help the key rise and fall and sequence [TS]

00:13:43   with the butterfly switch and stay you [TS]

00:13:44   know stable and everything and if it's [TS]

00:13:46   not connected to one of the little [TS]

00:13:47   cookie things it's kind of like you know [TS]

00:13:49   it independent suspension when you want [TS]

00:13:51   are you know really a live real acts [TS]

00:13:54   rear-axle and strong anti-roll bars the [TS]

00:13:57   core analogy okay work I think this one [TS]

00:14:00   actually works but it only works for [TS]

00:14:01   people to know what those things are so [TS]

00:14:04   I can imagine if you have a bad clip and [TS]

00:14:06   one corner of your key is not being [TS]

00:14:08   pushed upwards and pulled downward with [TS]

00:14:10   the whole rest of your key no matter [TS]

00:14:12   where you hit it because it is basically [TS]

00:14:13   like you know an anti-roll bar under the [TS]

00:14:15   cover even when when one corner of the [TS]

00:14:17   key goes up or down you want the whole [TS]

00:14:18   rest of the key to go with it that can [TS]

00:14:20   make the key tilt in a way that it [TS]

00:14:22   doesn't expect think it's stuck and do [TS]

00:14:23   also saw the things and got you just [TS]

00:14:26   looking at pictures of these keyboards [TS]

00:14:27   make me start freaking out a little bit [TS]

00:14:28   about how how delicate these little bits [TS]

00:14:32   are and how easy it is for something to [TS]

00:14:34   go wrong now if you open up a scissor [TS]

00:14:37   key keyboard like the one I use every [TS]

00:14:39   day it's also extremely delicate and [TS]

00:14:41   tiny inside there I don't know the [TS]

00:14:43   features of the key caps and mechanisms [TS]

00:14:45   are actually all that different could [TS]

00:14:46   just be a matter of you know butterfly [TS]

00:14:48   versus scissor and and travel distance [TS]

00:14:50   and maybe the switching mechanism [TS]

00:14:51   underneath it but I do not do not like [TS]

00:14:55   keyboards I don't like thinking about [TS]

00:14:57   these keyboards it almost makes me long [TS]

00:15:00   for a non-moving [TS]

00:15:02   iPhone 7 home button style key barbar [TS]

00:15:04   nothing actually no don't say that [TS]

00:15:06   they'll do it no like I don't like [TS]

00:15:08   thinking about keyboards either that's [TS]

00:15:10   why this ought this annoys me so much [TS]

00:15:11   because I've had every other laptop I've [TS]

00:15:14   ever had from Apple I have never had to [TS]

00:15:16   think about the keyboard it just worked [TS]

00:15:18   and it was fine that's why this bothers [TS]

00:15:20   me so much like this I feel like we're [TS]

00:15:22   moving backwards in technology if the [TS]

00:15:25   basics become unreliable [TS]

00:15:28   Hector Ramos wrote in to tell us that he [TS]

00:15:30   worked at a big companies tech [TS]

00:15:32   conference at the McKenry Convention [TS]

00:15:33   Center last [TS]

00:15:34   on switch I don't even know but I'm [TS]

00:15:35   assuming that's the one that we're going [TS]

00:15:37   to be in for WotC having been to WB DC [TS]

00:15:41   says Hector I think it's fair to say [TS]

00:15:43   that the box lunches in the San Jose [TS]

00:15:44   McHenry were worse sad trombone so don't [TS]

00:15:48   get your hopes up the box lunches were [TS]

00:15:49   all cold sandwiches with either soggy [TS]

00:15:51   bread or hard and impossible to eat [TS]

00:15:53   bread along with mystery dessert they [TS]

00:15:55   also had salad only options that were [TS]

00:15:58   passable however the real news here [TS]

00:16:00   which is terrible there was no Odwalla [TS]

00:16:05   sorry Casey I'm so sorry man are you [TS]

00:16:08   gonna be okay well I'm hopeful that it's [TS]

00:16:11   just that this particular event may not [TS]

00:16:14   have sprung for the Odwalla option but [TS]

00:16:19   I'm nervous and also a real-time [TS]

00:16:21   follow-up from friend of the show Jason [TS]

00:16:22   Snell it's Mick enery [TS]

00:16:23   not machemer II so that's MCE and ery [TS]

00:16:27   before i get all the san jose residents [TS]

00:16:30   writing me who i'm hector he wrote it [TS]

00:16:32   with Em's yep so any in any case yeah so [TS]

00:16:35   no Odwalla for this particular tech [TS]

00:16:38   conference and reading between the lines [TS]

00:16:40   it was not the sort of tech conference [TS]

00:16:42   where they needed to worry about money [TS]

00:16:45   this was a spared no expense kind of [TS]

00:16:47   experience so I'm nervous but hopefully [TS]

00:16:49   hopefully Apple will will spring for the [TS]

00:16:53   Odwalla just for me there I know that [TS]

00:16:55   there's discussion somewhere in in in [TS]

00:16:57   Cupertino you know Casey made it this [TS]

00:17:00   year he won the lottery this year and we [TS]

00:17:01   don't want to hear him whining and [TS]

00:17:02   moaning for a year if there's no odd [TS]

00:17:04   Wallace we might as well just pony it up [TS]

00:17:05   my favorite thing about this is that we [TS]

00:17:07   have become the podcast of conference [TS]

00:17:10   box lunches so true so anyway so we'll [TS]

00:17:14   see what happens but that is a that is [TS]

00:17:16   sad times tentatively we are sponsored [TS]

00:17:19   this week by Squarespace start your free [TS]

00:17:22   trial site today at squarespace.com and [TS]

00:17:24   when you sign up make sure to use the [TS]

00:17:25   offer code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

00:17:28   purchase make your next move with a [TS]

00:17:31   beautiful website and a unique domain [TS]

00:17:33   name from Squarespace pretty much [TS]

00:17:35   everything you have to do today needs a [TS]

00:17:37   website any new project business hobby [TS]

00:17:40   initiative whatever it is you probably [TS]

00:17:43   need a website for it and it's so much [TS]

00:17:45   easier [TS]

00:17:46   to make it squarespace than to do pretty [TS]

00:17:49   much any other option you have for [TS]

00:17:51   making websites today you go to [TS]

00:17:52   Squarespace com start a free trial and [TS]

00:17:55   just see what you can build you don't [TS]

00:17:57   have to pay anything you don't to give [TS]

00:17:58   them a credit card just see what you can [TS]

00:18:00   build you will see it is incredibly easy [TS]

00:18:02   to use regardless of your skill level [TS]

00:18:04   there's so much building functionality [TS]

00:18:06   you can do tons of stuff on Squarespace [TS]

00:18:08   blogs portfolios even stores if you can [TS]

00:18:12   sell stuff online with Squarespace [TS]

00:18:14   digital or physical goods they have full [TS]

00:18:16   integration credit card processing [TS]

00:18:18   everything you need and these are all [TS]

00:18:20   incredibly easy to use tools they're [TS]

00:18:22   very intuitive everything is what you [TS]

00:18:24   see is what you get design and you get a [TS]

00:18:26   free domain name if you sign up for a [TS]

00:18:27   year upfront so I highly recommend [TS]

00:18:29   checking that Squarespace for any new [TS]

00:18:31   site you're working on today it just try [TS]

00:18:34   it there see how far you get and you [TS]

00:18:35   will very quickly realize that it's not [TS]

00:18:38   really worth doing anything more because [TS]

00:18:39   Squarespace gives you so so much for [TS]

00:18:42   almost no effort at all it's incredibly [TS]

00:18:45   good value it's supported incredibly [TS]

00:18:47   well they handle hosting and stuff you [TS]

00:18:48   don't have to worry about software [TS]

00:18:50   upgrades or downtime or security or [TS]

00:18:52   anything like that [TS]

00:18:53   it's incredible check it out today at [TS]

00:18:55   squarespace.com and make sure to use [TS]

00:18:57   offer code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

00:19:00   purchase make your next move with [TS]

00:19:02   Squarespace news broke earlier today as [TS]

00:19:07   we record this Denise young smith who [TS]

00:19:09   used to be the vice president of [TS]

00:19:11   worldwide HR has now been named the vice [TS]

00:19:14   president of inclusion and diversity [TS]

00:19:16   which is cool I think that's pretty [TS]

00:19:19   awesome we don't really know much about [TS]

00:19:21   it yet so you know obviously we don't [TS]

00:19:22   want to celebrate it too much quite yet [TS]

00:19:24   but this is absolutely a step in the [TS]

00:19:26   right direction and she's not a white [TS]

00:19:28   dude because that seems to be the [TS]

00:19:29   classical thing to do which is to put a [TS]

00:19:31   white dude in charge of diversity and [TS]

00:19:33   inclusion and so at least Apple wasn't [TS]

00:19:36   so tone deaf that that made that faux [TS]

00:19:38   pas so this in theory seems like a great [TS]

00:19:41   thing this is a newly created position [TS]

00:19:43   like this position didn't exist as a new [TS]

00:19:45   vice president level position that [TS]

00:19:47   they've created in I don't know how this [TS]

00:19:49   is going to work out because so much [TS]

00:19:50   corporate stuff is is opaque like I [TS]

00:19:53   always when I see stuff like this in [TS]

00:19:55   companies other than Apple ID [TS]

00:19:57   is I think apples and exception in many [TS]

00:19:58   many ways but in when a big company [TS]

00:20:03   makes a new role for like a [TS]

00:20:07   vice-president or someone who's going to [TS]

00:20:08   address some problem they think they [TS]

00:20:10   have I always fear that that person is [TS]

00:20:12   being set up for failure because how is [TS]

00:20:16   it that they're going to pursue their [TS]

00:20:19   agenda in a company that didn't even [TS]

00:20:22   have this position previously and and to [TS]

00:20:26   pursue the agenda requires you know [TS]

00:20:28   massive company shifting policy changes [TS]

00:20:31   so that's that's my usual fear with [TS]

00:20:33   these type of things that you know what [TS]

00:20:35   can they even do is it just symbolic [TS]

00:20:37   will the rest of the company listen to [TS]

00:20:39   them and you know this will they be [TS]

00:20:40   empowered to make change the thing that [TS]

00:20:42   encourages me about this for Apple [TS]

00:20:44   specifically is that it seems like Apple [TS]

00:20:47   has done this to pretty good effect in [TS]

00:20:49   the past one example is that was at Lisa [TS]

00:20:51   Jackson who was on the talk show the [TS]

00:20:52   does like environment or whatever I'm [TS]

00:20:55   assuming that great position was newly [TS]

00:20:56   created at some point in the past to [TS]

00:20:58   like you know Apple Apple 20 years ago [TS]

00:21:00   probably didn't have a you know [TS]

00:21:02   environment bizarre or whatever her [TS]

00:21:03   title is and she's got results like she [TS]

00:21:09   does things that change the way Apple [TS]

00:21:11   makes its products right and so she [TS]

00:21:14   wasn't just putting this ability to say [TS]

00:21:15   oh ya know we have someone worrying [TS]

00:21:16   about environment that's a whole [TS]

00:21:17   vice-president role and they just [TS]

00:21:18   continue to do what they did and you [TS]

00:21:19   know put out press releases or like you [TS]

00:21:23   know it becomes like a PR type position [TS]

00:21:24   from the interview you should definitely [TS]

00:21:27   listen to like Apple is changing what it [TS]

00:21:30   does across its entire business because [TS]

00:21:32   of initiatives spearheaded by this [TS]

00:21:34   person and what an any other company [TS]

00:21:35   would be like a symbolic position so [TS]

00:21:37   let's hope that this newly created [TS]

00:21:38   position is you know just successful [TS]

00:21:41   that's a good sign and you know apples [TS]

00:21:43   been reasonably good about publicly [TS]

00:21:47   sharing their diversity report I think [TS]

00:21:50   at the end of the year I forget exactly [TS]

00:21:51   what it is but at some point during the [TS]

00:21:53   year they share it and so in theory we [TS]

00:21:56   can judge them on you know what their [TS]

00:21:59   results are after this move over the [TS]

00:22:01   coming years obviously they massaged [TS]

00:22:03   that report to be as complimentary as [TS]

00:22:05   they possibly can while still being [TS]

00:22:06   truthful hopefully anyway but certainly [TS]

00:22:10   this is a good sign and I'm hopeful and [TS]

00:22:13   and I think we should celebrate it [TS]

00:22:14   alright John tell us about thunderbolt [TS]

00:22:17   three and what's going on with Intel [TS]

00:22:18   every time we talk about Apple not using [TS]

00:22:22   Intel chips [TS]

00:22:24   someone will brightest many someone's [TS]

00:22:27   rise and say oh but that's not going to [TS]

00:22:28   happen because if you don't use in El [TS]

00:22:30   jefe's you can't have thunderbolt and [TS]

00:22:31   Apple needs to have Thunderbolt because [TS]

00:22:33   reasons therefore don't worry about it [TS]

00:22:36   and I think the last time we discussed [TS]

00:22:38   this what I tried to emphasize was I [TS]

00:22:40   think when we talk about like risin [TS]

00:22:41   AMD's risin and you know making [TS]

00:22:43   reasonably competitive chips in certain [TS]

00:22:45   market segments again and they're sort [TS]

00:22:47   of they're their comeback bid that if [TS]

00:22:50   Apple decided to go to AMD for whatever [TS]

00:22:52   reason you know [TS]

00:22:54   AMD Apple Intel are all companies things [TS]

00:22:57   can be worked out money can change hands [TS]

00:22:59   deals can be made I feel like it's a [TS]

00:23:03   type of type of thing that all three [TS]

00:23:05   parties would be able to work out that [TS]

00:23:07   none of them would be so adamant that it [TS]

00:23:08   would say there is literally no amount [TS]

00:23:10   of money that you can give us Apple that [TS]

00:23:11   would allow that would let us you know [TS]

00:23:14   they would make us license Thunderbolt 3 [TS]

00:23:16   to AMD like there's no kind of grudge [TS]

00:23:18   like that going on there so I'm like set [TS]

00:23:20   that aside yes it's an issue it have to [TS]

00:23:22   be worked up by the people involved but [TS]

00:23:24   if Apple thought it was to their [TS]

00:23:25   advantage to start going to AMD for [TS]

00:23:26   certain chips or certain things like it [TS]

00:23:29   has the advantage that it wouldn't be an [TS]

00:23:30   architectural change and having two [TS]

00:23:32   vendors is the thing that Apple loves to [TS]

00:23:34   do for every part in all of its things [TS]

00:23:35   and at a certain point it's kind of [TS]

00:23:37   against apples instincts and general [TS]

00:23:40   policy to have a single vendor for like [TS]

00:23:41   an extremely important component you [TS]

00:23:44   know a single non apple vendor I suppose [TS]

00:23:46   like they always want to have multiple [TS]

00:23:47   people multiple people fabbing their [TS]

00:23:48   chips up buying their chips from [TS]

00:23:50   multiple vendors if they can help it [TS]

00:23:52   ping them against each other like you [TS]

00:23:53   know just typical business so today's [TS]

00:23:56   announcement from I think it's today [TS]

00:23:58   from Intel adds an interesting twist to [TS]

00:24:01   this first is that Intel is adding [TS]

00:24:03   Thunderbolt to their CPUs so you don't [TS]

00:24:07   have to buy a separate chipset which [TS]

00:24:08   apparently has been a barrier to you [TS]

00:24:11   know PC manufacturers you know aren't [TS]

00:24:13   willing to spend the money to you know [TS]

00:24:15   license or buy the you know Alpine Ridge [TS]

00:24:17   or whatever the latest chipset is for [TS]

00:24:20   Thunderbolt support like that will just [TS]

00:24:21   take the CPUs they have support for like [TS]

00:24:23   USB blah blah blah [TS]

00:24:24   pci-express like on the chips I don't [TS]

00:24:26   care about thunderbolt I'll buy another [TS]

00:24:27   chip it's it's it's pointless right so [TS]

00:24:30   now they're putting it on the CPUs with [TS]

00:24:31   so many other things and that will make [TS]

00:24:32   it cheaper for people to use and you [TS]

00:24:34   basically can't not get it if you buy a [TS]

00:24:36   part that has it built-in I mean maybe [TS]

00:24:38   they'll still sell parts that don't have [TS]

00:24:39   a built-in and I assume Lee's better for [TS]

00:24:41   packaging probably also better for power [TS]

00:24:44   and it's a move that will make Apple [TS]

00:24:46   computers better because Apple likes to [TS]

00:24:48   put Thunderbolt 3 on you know it's high [TS]

00:24:49   in computers and if Apple can get that [TS]

00:24:52   built into the CPU they love it because [TS]

00:24:55   they'd love to make everything small and [TS]

00:24:57   lower power and if it's cheaper on top [TS]

00:25:00   of that all the better right and the [TS]

00:25:03   second part of this story is Intel is [TS]

00:25:05   going to license Thunderbolt 3 for free [TS]

00:25:08   to anybody who wants it then that that [TS]

00:25:11   would a club obviously include AMD so [TS]

00:25:13   that barrier to Apple using AMD CPUs [TS]

00:25:17   assuming it ever was a barrier because [TS]

00:25:19   I'm not entirely convinced that Apple is [TS]

00:25:20   so wedded to Thunderbolt 3 that they [TS]

00:25:21   wouldn't consider a CPU consider [TS]

00:25:23   building a Mac without it because they [TS]

00:25:25   do that barrier is gone Thunderbolt 3 [TS]

00:25:30   and from Intel's perspective it's not [TS]

00:25:31   like they're doing this to let Apple [TS]

00:25:32   take AMD CPUs they're doing this because [TS]

00:25:34   they want thunderbolt to spread more [TS]

00:25:35   widely and a barrier to adoption as you [TS]

00:25:38   got to buy this extra chipset for own [TS]

00:25:40   and you can only get it from us and you [TS]

00:25:42   can't make your own thing so it went to [TS]

00:25:43   like no no we want to see Thunderbolt 3 [TS]

00:25:45   everywhere it's really important for us [TS]

00:25:46   to the standard to spread guess what [TS]

00:25:48   it's free for everybody and it's cheaper [TS]

00:25:50   when you buy until CPUs and I'm hoping [TS]

00:25:52   that all the other manufacturers of pcs [TS]

00:25:55   and parts and so on and so forth will [TS]

00:25:57   take the ball and run with it [TS]

00:25:58   I'm hoping the reason they were staying [TS]

00:25:59   away from Thunderbolt was that it was [TS]

00:26:02   too expensive I'm assuming Intel and you [TS]

00:26:06   know Intel an apple or you know the [TS]

00:26:07   people who created this standard have [TS]

00:26:09   still had the most influence of it so [TS]

00:26:11   maybe people were staying away because [TS]

00:26:12   they feel like it's not like an industry [TS]

00:26:13   standard it's more like an Intel or [TS]

00:26:15   until Apple standard but either way I'm [TS]

00:26:17   happy to see moves that bull that have a [TS]

00:26:20   chance of keeping Thunderbolt from [TS]

00:26:23   firewires fate firewire just never got [TS]

00:26:25   the wide adoption that that it would [TS]

00:26:28   have helped it to stick around longer [TS]

00:26:30   and be a viable technology only used by [TS]

00:26:33   Apple and video and if [TS]

00:26:36   other things that USB meanwhile went [TS]

00:26:38   literally everywhere so this seems like [TS]

00:26:40   yet more of the USB if ocation of [TS]

00:26:43   thunderbolt you know they already stole [TS]

00:26:45   their connector and and their port [TS]

00:26:47   confusing the world with the port that [TS]

00:26:48   is 17 different things at one but i [TS]

00:26:50   think that's really cool tech wise and [TS]

00:26:52   now it's free for everybody so go forth [TS]

00:26:54   and thunderbolt do you think that [TS]

00:26:57   thunderbolt has already been fire wired [TS]

00:27:00   because i see a lot of the same signs of [TS]

00:27:02   it like you know thunderbolt and you [TS]

00:27:05   know the earlier versions of it I think [TS]

00:27:07   had had a more severe problem of this [TS]

00:27:08   where it just very few peripherals were [TS]

00:27:11   ever really made for Thunderbolt and [TS]

00:27:13   what was made for Thunderbolt was always [TS]

00:27:16   much more expensive than the USB 2 or 3 [TS]

00:27:20   version of the same thing and for things [TS]

00:27:22   like hard drive enclosures or SSD [TS]

00:27:24   enclosures like there's almost no reason [TS]

00:27:27   for anybody to do a thunderbolt when USB [TS]

00:27:29   3 is an option [TS]

00:27:30   unless you have really really high-end [TS]

00:27:32   parts and you need maximum bandwidth and [TS]

00:27:34   you don't care about the price for most [TS]

00:27:36   people one of those things is not true [TS]

00:27:39   so like I don't think Thunderbolt really [TS]

00:27:42   has taken off very far I would say [TS]

00:27:44   Thunderbolt is exactly where firewire [TS]

00:27:48   was both 400 and 800 of like it is this [TS]

00:27:52   this you know standard in quotes but in [TS]

00:27:55   practice it is only used by some Apple [TS]

00:27:58   stuff and some high-end like peripherals [TS]

00:28:01   and storage enclosures but almost [TS]

00:28:03   everything that most people use uses USB [TS]

00:28:06   2 or 3 well Apple did a really smart or [TS]

00:28:08   Apple Intel did a really smart thing [TS]

00:28:09   here because when they when they change [TS]

00:28:11   the connector because you're right that [TS]

00:28:13   there are many people who don't need [TS]

00:28:15   thinner bolt they just need USB it's the [TS]

00:28:18   same little hole in the side of your [TS]

00:28:20   computer right yeah and so if [TS]

00:28:22   Thunderbolt gets confined to be oh it's [TS]

00:28:25   just this weird thing that Apple does [TS]

00:28:27   like Intel may not be happy that because [TS]

00:28:29   maybe Intel wants it to be used more [TS]

00:28:31   broadly for whatever strategic reasons [TS]

00:28:32   but it's not like Apple has to change [TS]

00:28:34   anything about its strategy as long as [TS]

00:28:37   thinner ball continues to be made or [TS]

00:28:39   like like basically the little plugs on [TS]

00:28:42   the side of you already have a situation [TS]

00:28:43   where you can get don't some it doesn't [TS]

00:28:45   the low end like MacBook not have a [TS]

00:28:47   Thunderbolt 3 port but instead just has [TS]

00:28:48   the USB C and [TS]

00:28:50   our thing am I wrong about that that's [TS]

00:28:51   correct the 12-inch MacBook does not [TS]

00:28:54   have you it does not have Thunderbolt it [TS]

00:28:55   only has USB three over that port but [TS]

00:28:58   it's the same old little connector and [TS]

00:28:59   similarly the Thunderbolt ports can just [TS]

00:29:01   run USB off of them the main the paint [TS]

00:29:04   the main place sadly the main place or [TS]

00:29:06   maybe not sadly depends on how you look [TS]

00:29:07   at the main functionality the [TS]

00:29:09   Thunderbolt 3 Bank brings to Apple's [TS]

00:29:11   products is they can put a small set of [TS]

00:29:15   very very small uniform ports on the [TS]

00:29:18   side of their portable computers and [TS]

00:29:20   people can connect stuff to them they [TS]

00:29:22   give them all the other ports all the [TS]

00:29:24   other things you can imagine all those [TS]

00:29:26   different breakout boxes that's the [TS]

00:29:27   magic of Thunderbolt right do you need [TS]

00:29:29   sunder bowl 3 for that or whatever and I [TS]

00:29:31   guess I suppose you know high end [TS]

00:29:32   monitor support depending on how they [TS]

00:29:33   want to implement that what they want to [TS]

00:29:34   do with like multiple DisplayPort [TS]

00:29:35   streams or telling things of our [TS]

00:29:37   Thunderbolt and external GPUs and all [TS]

00:29:39   the other fancy stuff you can get but if [TS]

00:29:42   you don't take advantage of that fancy [TS]

00:29:43   stuff it still just looks like you're [TS]

00:29:45   plugging the little USB type-c connector [TS]

00:29:47   into the side of your computer if you do [TS]

00:29:48   take advantage of it you buy the fancy [TS]

00:29:50   Apple computer and the same little port [TS]

00:29:52   you can plug in all that other stuff but [TS]

00:29:53   also you can plug in these other things [TS]

00:29:54   to get these cool breakout boxes I think [TS]

00:29:56   Apple would be perfectly fine with that [TS]

00:29:58   they're not faced with the firewire like [TS]

00:29:59   situation where that is that all those [TS]

00:30:01   peripherals you bought are useless as [TS]

00:30:03   long as Thunderbolt continues to be an [TS]

00:30:05   ongoing concern in some fashion Apple [TS]

00:30:07   can continue to ship all that's you know [TS]

00:30:09   peripherals all of its Mac stuff all of [TS]

00:30:11   its dongles and adapters with that one [TS]

00:30:13   little hole on them so I think they're [TS]

00:30:15   better off but the reason I brought a [TS]

00:30:17   fire or exactly the reasons you said [TS]

00:30:18   that it seems like Thunderbolt is being [TS]

00:30:21   confined because USB 3 is so fast and so [TS]

00:30:24   good and so cheap and so ubiquitous but [TS]

00:30:27   in some respects the other angle on this [TS]

00:30:29   USB type-c is kind of I'm gonna say it's [TS]

00:30:33   the same as firewire but I get a little [TS]

00:30:34   bit of the width of that firewire on it [TS]

00:30:36   in the general reluctance of the rest of [TS]

00:30:39   the industry to follow Apple along with [TS]

00:30:40   this even like Microsoft not putting USB [TS]

00:30:42   C on all this new surface stuff and then [TS]

00:30:44   making excuses about like well when we [TS]

00:30:46   think the world is ready for USB C we'll [TS]

00:30:47   change it but in the meantime you can [TS]

00:30:49   get a dongle to let you connect USB C [TS]

00:30:51   stuff which is a pretty pretty good [TS]

00:30:55   snark there like it seems to me if you [TS]

00:31:00   when I look around I see laptops the [TS]

00:31:02   only ones I ever see with USB see [TS]

00:31:04   it's our Apple 1 so maybe they're just [TS]

00:31:05   ahead of everyone else and people will [TS]

00:31:06   convert over but that stupid USB type a [TS]

00:31:09   connector may be very difficult to [TS]

00:31:12   dislodge and it could be that like [TS]

00:31:14   firewire the only hardware you ever see [TS]

00:31:16   with these weird USB these things are [TS]

00:31:18   probably cell phones because size is [TS]

00:31:20   going to make those people turnover and [TS]

00:31:21   mini USB sucks and then max but every [TS]

00:31:25   other portable you know PC or tablet or [TS]

00:31:27   surface thing or whatever love just a [TS]

00:31:29   bunch of USB type a connectors on the [TS]

00:31:30   side of it I don't know I'll tell you [TS]

00:31:32   one thing I like now that I'm in the [TS]

00:31:34   USBC ecosystem with my new laptop and [TS]

00:31:36   I've been looking at USB see peripherals [TS]

00:31:39   and looking for adapters and dongles and [TS]

00:31:42   various like peripherals that use it [TS]

00:31:44   there are not many like I thought that [TS]

00:31:47   with the 12-inch MacBook being now 2 [TS]

00:31:49   years old I figured you know there was [TS]

00:31:51   there's probably got to be tons of them [TS]

00:31:53   now and there are a small number of [TS]

00:31:57   things that can plug into that port [TS]

00:31:58   natively but it seems like almost all of [TS]

00:32:01   them are like cheap crap from no-name [TS]

00:32:04   brands on Amazon for 40 bucks that is [TS]

00:32:06   all unreliable and badly built and all [TS]

00:32:09   the probably uses the same chipset [TS]

00:32:11   inside and and and it's it seemed like [TS]

00:32:12   it's a very still a very immature market [TS]

00:32:15   and I hope that I hope it matures soon [TS]

00:32:18   now that all the MacBook Pros use only [TS]

00:32:19   these ports that should be enough of [TS]

00:32:21   motivation for peripheral makers but [TS]

00:32:23   we'll see it's it's not where I thought [TS]

00:32:25   it would be by now yeah I don't know [TS]

00:32:28   what the resistance is here SBC Kazan [TS]

00:32:29   it's not it's just us beasts though I [TS]

00:32:31   mean there it's a different spec and [TS]

00:32:33   there the cables are different and maybe [TS]

00:32:34   they're more expensive and the [TS]

00:32:35   connectors are more expensive than they [TS]

00:32:36   used to be but it seems like I I fully [TS]

00:32:39   expect just a complete turn over [TS]

00:32:40   eventually to USBC because it's not it's [TS]

00:32:43   not a fire or a situation in it oh it's [TS]

00:32:44   so much more expensive and you have to [TS]

00:32:46   put these way more expensive chips and [TS]

00:32:47   the things and the chips have to be on [TS]

00:32:48   both ends and you know our Thunderbolt [TS]

00:32:50   with the weird chips and the wires for [TS]

00:32:52   the high-speed connection and all sorts [TS]

00:32:53   of stuff like that like that's not it's [TS]

00:32:55   just a different physical connector for [TS]

00:32:57   USB plus a different you know chipset [TS]

00:32:59   and USB 3 I think is rolling out pretty [TS]

00:33:02   well 3.1 maybe I don't know what the [TS]

00:33:05   with the hold of this people chatter I'm [TS]

00:33:06   saying the windows there are windows [TS]

00:33:07   lots to have USB see of course there's [TS]

00:33:09   been a lot of tops to have everything on [TS]

00:33:10   it it's just that I don't I don't see [TS]

00:33:12   the it's it's not like remember in USB 2 [TS]

00:33:16   came along yours [TS]

00:33:17   one point one did not last long in the [TS]

00:33:19   face of USB - USB - just rolled out [TS]

00:33:21   across the whole industry and you know [TS]

00:33:24   you would have USB 2 port everywhere [TS]

00:33:25   except for like a keyboard and mouse [TS]

00:33:26   which would be one point one for a while [TS]

00:33:28   but us PC has not rolled out like that [TS]

00:33:30   well for a long time like almost every [TS]

00:33:34   PC you would buy would have like two [TS]

00:33:36   blue ports and then six blackboard yeah [TS]

00:33:40   but the point is it had the blue ones [TS]

00:33:41   like it had like you know keep the old [TS]

00:33:43   ones around the same reason they kept [TS]

00:33:44   like parallel port and the ps2 port rank [TS]

00:33:46   is there if their PC makers I'll always [TS]

00:33:48   do that but you have the new ones USB to [TS]

00:33:50   buy a PC without USB to anywhere on it [TS]

00:33:53   and the USB to age was unheard of but [TS]

00:33:54   like I said Microsoft with these very [TS]

00:33:56   expensive high-end fancy Surface tablet [TS]

00:33:59   laptop convertible whatever thingies [TS]

00:34:01   seems proudly to be shipping them [TS]

00:34:04   without any USB C ports and defending [TS]

00:34:06   their decision by saying oh you can get [TS]

00:34:08   an adapter it's USB through front one [TS]

00:34:09   it's totally the same thing we just [TS]

00:34:11   don't like that connector which is weird [TS]

00:34:13   you know um having now had my first well [TS]

00:34:18   what I consider to be my first USB C [TS]

00:34:20   device which is the switch yes I have an [TS]

00:34:21   Apple TV and yes that's us PC but that [TS]

00:34:23   doesn't really count [TS]

00:34:25   the idea of a theoretical future where I [TS]

00:34:30   have a a MacBook that has been updated [TS]

00:34:34   which in and of itself is a very [TS]

00:34:36   theoretical future I have a MacBook [TS]

00:34:39   that's been updated that is powered by [TS]

00:34:40   USB see I have a switch that is bent [TS]

00:34:42   that is powered by us PC the thought of [TS]

00:34:45   a phone being powered by USB see for [TS]

00:34:48   convenience alone sounds pretty awesome [TS]

00:34:51   doesn't now I don't really love the USBC [TS]

00:34:54   connector as much as I like lightning [TS]

00:34:57   connector no small part because the [TS]

00:34:58   Lightning connector smaller and also [TS]

00:35:00   because I have eleventy billion [TS]

00:35:01   lightning cables strewn throughout my [TS]

00:35:03   entire life but having one port that one [TS]

00:35:07   connector that can really be all things [TS]

00:35:10   to all people is pretty neat and does [TS]

00:35:14   sound appealing so as much as I don't [TS]

00:35:17   actually begrudge the Lightning [TS]

00:35:19   connector because I think it it's really [TS]

00:35:21   really good in especially in ways that [TS]

00:35:24   the dock connector wasn't I still think [TS]

00:35:27   a USB see future might be pretty cool [TS]

00:35:29   hell it would make the phone's get [TS]

00:35:31   - right that's that's a way in as well [TS]

00:35:33   that means more battery exactly I don't [TS]

00:35:38   know well we'll see but uh I mean it [TS]

00:35:40   certainly does sound appealing in that [TS]

00:35:42   sense idea I'm a little bit envious of [TS]

00:35:43   the Android folks with their USBC lives [TS]

00:35:46   we are sponsored this week by mail route [TS]

00:35:49   stop your spam today with a free 30-day [TS]

00:35:52   trial at mail route net slash ATP you [TS]

00:35:55   know who'd handle your email security [TS]

00:35:57   and delivery people who do only that [TS]

00:36:00   that's mail route even the big companies [TS]

00:36:03   are bowing out of the email protection [TS]

00:36:05   business because it's hard work Postini [TS]

00:36:07   went away [TS]

00:36:07   McAfee MX logic Google even came out and [TS]

00:36:10   said they want you to use a gateway [TS]

00:36:11   service like mail routes so they don't [TS]

00:36:13   have to filter all your Google Apps mail [TS]

00:36:14   so who can you trust to do the job [TS]

00:36:17   properly and stick around that is mail [TS]

00:36:20   route this team has been focused [TS]

00:36:21   entirely on email security since 1997 I [TS]

00:36:25   was in middle school mail route protects [TS]

00:36:27   your email and hardware against spam [TS]

00:36:29   viruses and other threats and they [TS]

00:36:31   deliver your mail even when your mail [TS]

00:36:32   server can't and there's no hardware or [TS]

00:36:34   software for you to install buy or [TS]

00:36:36   manage because it's all an online hosted [TS]

00:36:38   service if you own your own domain name [TS]

00:36:41   that's all you need you point your MX [TS]

00:36:43   records at them and you tell them where [TS]

00:36:44   to deliver your clean filtered mail the [TS]

00:36:47   interface is incredibly easy to navigate [TS]

00:36:48   it's loaded with admin tools including [TS]

00:36:50   even a full api all designed to make [TS]

00:36:53   your life better as an email admin or [TS]

00:36:55   even just an end user like me [TS]

00:36:56   no spam no virus is a no bounced mail [TS]

00:36:59   whether you're a small home business or [TS]

00:37:01   a huge ISP mail route handles customers [TS]

00:37:03   of all sizes and provides the same level [TS]

00:37:05   of outstanding tech support to everyone [TS]

00:37:07   they protect your email from spam and [TS]

00:37:09   viruses and they guarantee mail access [TS]

00:37:11   during outages and that's all they do [TS]

00:37:13   they focus entirely on that and they do [TS]

00:37:15   it better and they've been doing it [TS]

00:37:17   longer than everyone else so stop spam [TS]

00:37:19   today with a free 30-day trial at mail [TS]

00:37:22   route net /a TP if you use that link [TS]

00:37:25   listeners of this show will get a 10% [TS]

00:37:27   off discount every time they charge you [TS]

00:37:30   for the lifetime of your account this is [TS]

00:37:33   I think the best discount on all [TS]

00:37:34   podcasting ten percent lifetime discount [TS]

00:37:37   once again mail route net slash a TP [TS]

00:37:40   thank you very much two mail routes for [TS]

00:37:42   sponsoring our show once again [TS]

00:37:44   [Music] [TS]

00:37:46   all right so Apple has maybe started [TS]

00:37:52   working on and presumably started [TS]

00:37:54   working on a series thing with the [TS]

00:37:55   screen and obviously this is all rumors [TS]

00:37:58   there's been a lot of rumors that this [TS]

00:38:01   might happen in a couple of weeks at WDC [TS]

00:38:04   there's TechCrunch article get ready for [TS]

00:38:06   a new iPad and a mysterious series [TS]

00:38:08   speaker at WWDC uh as we've talked about [TS]

00:38:11   numerous times I currently anyway don't [TS]

00:38:14   really care about ladies in a tube so [TS]

00:38:16   Marco or John you want to kind of take [TS]

00:38:18   this one over I mean our timing on this [TS]

00:38:21   is terrible because this is an old story [TS]

00:38:24   and there's no rumors about it now well [TS]

00:38:26   no just because it's rumored to be [TS]

00:38:27   announced in two weeks so it's it's [TS]

00:38:30   probably not a great time to speculate [TS]

00:38:33   too much on it I would simply say that [TS]

00:38:38   if you're in the market for one of these [TS]

00:38:40   home speakers like the Amazon echo or [TS]

00:38:43   Google home or whatever else I would say [TS]

00:38:45   it's probably worth waiting for this [TS]

00:38:47   announcement just to see what it is see [TS]

00:38:49   what you know what you're dealing with [TS]

00:38:50   but I also am concerned because this is [TS]

00:38:54   the kind of product that Apple [TS]

00:38:57   historically has not done well something [TS]

00:39:00   that has to be cheap and integrates well [TS]

00:39:03   with everything else people have and [TS]

00:39:05   based on a really reliable really [TS]

00:39:08   advanced voice assistant maybe they've [TS]

00:39:10   become a different company maybe they [TS]

00:39:12   have really ramped up the API I mean I [TS]

00:39:15   do expect WGC to have a lot of Sirikit [TS]

00:39:18   advancements the seer API for [TS]

00:39:19   third-party apps I would love to have [TS]

00:39:22   some kind of like audio library [TS]

00:39:24   functionality so that overcast could [TS]

00:39:26   actually use the seer API because right [TS]

00:39:28   now there's nothing for it to use but it [TS]

00:39:29   that would be nice if there was some way [TS]

00:39:31   to say you know hey thing play this [TS]

00:39:34   podcast and overcast or something like [TS]

00:39:35   that that would be awesome you can't do [TS]

00:39:37   it you can't do that now you can't say [TS]

00:39:39   hey play episode number 17 of my [TS]

00:39:41   favorite podcast no can't do it [TS]

00:39:43   that's right because they I figure [TS]

00:39:45   whether we talked about this at the last [TS]

00:39:46   hour you see if it was like a really [TS]

00:39:47   limited domain of things you can do it's [TS]

00:39:49   not so much the playing of the audio is [TS]

00:39:51   the idea that this is a voice command [TS]

00:39:53   that you can issue that causes something [TS]

00:39:55   to happen like the head I've abstracted [TS]

00:39:56   it away from the level of the [TS]

00:39:58   app to just be like this is a desire for [TS]

00:40:01   a thing to happen that is not up [TS]

00:40:02   specifically your app can deal with [TS]

00:40:04   they'll is all coming back to me now it [TS]

00:40:06   will come back to me more Debbie WC [TS]

00:40:07   sessions but that's that's a killer [TS]

00:40:09   feature they're just described right [TS]

00:40:10   there like just like it is a killer [TS]

00:40:11   feature of many of these TV attach pucks [TS]

00:40:13   where you can say you know play stepa [TS]

00:40:16   sewed five season two of seinfeld and it [TS]

00:40:19   does that and even if you don't have the [TS]

00:40:21   world's worst television remote okay the [TS]

00:40:23   Apple remote it's a pain not to use to [TS]

00:40:25   use any remote to do that I the sentence [TS]

00:40:27   I just said you will be watching that [TS]

00:40:29   episode so much faster than if you have [TS]

00:40:31   to navigate fine Seinfeld so my recent [TS]

00:40:34   shows Oh seasons season two scroll [TS]

00:40:37   Scroll scroll episode five like it's so [TS]

00:40:40   much better so being able to do that [TS]

00:40:42   especially on you know overcast feature [TS]

00:40:44   suggestions especially if it doesn't [TS]

00:40:47   expect you to all have that already [TS]

00:40:48   downloaded like you have overcast [TS]

00:40:49   understood you don't have to be [TS]

00:40:52   subscribed to the podcast that will go [TS]

00:40:53   to overcast directory find the podcast [TS]

00:40:55   that I think is the best match for that [TS]

00:40:56   download the episode number that us or [TS]

00:40:58   and start playing it like all in one [TS]

00:41:00   thing again doing that by hand you could [TS]

00:41:01   do it by hand overcast right now but [TS]

00:41:03   being able to say that sentence into the [TS]

00:41:05   earphone and have it do that that would [TS]

00:41:06   be like magic right and and that is I [TS]

00:41:09   assume if and when they do any kind of [TS]

00:41:12   like music or audio type integration [TS]

00:41:16   with Siri with Siri kit I mean I assume [TS]

00:41:18   that's the kind of thing that they will [TS]

00:41:20   do because most other services that we [TS]

00:41:22   do this you know think of like a music [TS]

00:41:24   streaming service they're not going to [TS]

00:41:25   have the entire index of all songs that [TS]

00:41:28   are available on the service stored [TS]

00:41:29   locally in the app they're going to have [TS]

00:41:31   to make a network request they're going [TS]

00:41:32   to have to have some way for Apple to [TS]

00:41:35   index their libraries and and to it that [TS]

00:41:38   way like the Siri logic probably [TS]

00:41:40   server-side could then figure out what [TS]

00:41:43   you're actually asking about and and you [TS]

00:41:45   know send like an ID to the to the app [TS]

00:41:47   and I think this is probably why they [TS]

00:41:49   didn't have it last year because all the [TS]

00:41:52   existing intents they call them for the [TS]

00:41:54   for Siri Kate like all the different [TS]

00:41:55   ways you can use Siri kid you know it's [TS]

00:41:56   stuff like booking a ride or sending a [TS]

00:41:58   payment or things like that and those [TS]

00:42:00   are things that have like a limited [TS]

00:42:03   command dictionary that you could pretty [TS]

00:42:04   much deal with locally without having to [TS]

00:42:06   custom index content from uber or [TS]

00:42:08   whatever else or [TS]

00:42:10   you know it and or you know any any what [TS]

00:42:12   the other things like they can do [TS]

00:42:13   whereas if you say like integrate with [TS]

00:42:15   overcast or Spotify or things like that [TS]

00:42:18   Siri has to has to have some way to to [TS]

00:42:21   index these services just to see what [TS]

00:42:24   other possible things people can be [TS]

00:42:25   asking for and and you know and then [TS]

00:42:28   have some way to interpret what people [TS]

00:42:30   are asking to be those things and then [TS]

00:42:33   tell the app this person just asked for [TS]

00:42:35   the you know artist with this IDE and [TS]

00:42:37   the track with this ID or whatever else [TS]

00:42:39   and that's a lot more to build so that's [TS]

00:42:42   why I assume that it wasn't there last [TS]

00:42:44   year and I don't even know if it's going [TS]

00:42:45   to be this year or ever but if if they [TS]

00:42:48   give the the option for Siri to [TS]

00:42:50   integrate with audio services to do it [TS]

00:42:52   right is going to involve all that stuff [TS]

00:42:53   and that's a lot of work and that's a [TS]

00:42:54   lot of stuff for us to implement on our [TS]

00:42:56   site as well but it could be awesome the [TS]

00:42:58   one advantage I feel like they have on [TS]

00:43:00   this is the you know we this happens [TS]

00:43:02   every time we talk about thing is if [TS]

00:43:04   you're in the audience and they're [TS]

00:43:06   announcing whatever whatever their Siri [TS]

00:43:08   thing is that you talk to right and you [TS]

00:43:11   don't already have one of the existing [TS]

00:43:13   things that you talk to almost anything [TS]

00:43:17   the demo will look amazing if you've [TS]

00:43:19   never seen it done before so assume [TS]

00:43:21   speaking of the audio thing assume they [TS]

00:43:23   say even if it's just integrated with [TS]

00:43:25   Apple music it's not third-party you [TS]

00:43:26   can't do it but Apple music has it and [TS]

00:43:27   they go up there and demo something and [TS]

00:43:30   they rattle off some sentence that's [TS]

00:43:32   like what's that song that goes blah [TS]

00:43:34   blah blah and maybe they hum a tune or [TS]

00:43:37   do the lyrics or want you know some kind [TS]

00:43:39   of a touchy-feely thing that you [TS]

00:43:42   definitely were through that right and [TS]

00:43:44   it finds it because like you know all [TS]

00:43:46   the you know amazon and google both have [TS]

00:43:48   the say an arbitrary lyric from a song [TS]

00:43:50   and it will find it I don't know if [TS]

00:43:52   either one of them has a do you know [TS]

00:43:55   some the tune and it will find it I mean [TS]

00:43:58   I guess people aren't in tune enough to [TS]

00:43:59   do that echo has lyrics search at least [TS]

00:44:01   I don't know if it has like like melody [TS]

00:44:02   sir yeah as I'm saying like the Google [TS]

00:44:04   home has it too if you say we say [TS]

00:44:06   literally any lyric from a song if you [TS]

00:44:08   get it close to right it will find that [TS]

00:44:10   song and play it it works amazingly well [TS]

00:44:12   right so it's almost as if an apple [TS]

00:44:14   doesn't demo that they're just showing [TS]

00:44:15   that they're behind two people to note [TS]

00:44:17   but if you don't have an echo and don't [TS]

00:44:18   have a Google home that demo is [TS]

00:44:20   incredibly powerful and because it's [TS]

00:44:22   Apple this is one of those places where [TS]

00:44:24   it's true [TS]

00:44:24   Oh Apple just announced something [TS]

00:44:26   whatever else has had for years and I [TS]

00:44:27   just get pressed goes there Apple that [TS]

00:44:29   effect exists right because you know [TS]

00:44:31   they're good showman's and you know the [TS]

00:44:33   showmanship that they have and the the [TS]

00:44:35   way they're able to you know give a [TS]

00:44:38   compelling demo in in ways that like the [TS]

00:44:41   Amazon echo commercial or the Google [TS]

00:44:43   home things are not able to and because [TS]

00:44:45   there's so many eyes on Apple and yada [TS]

00:44:46   yada yada it is an opportunity for them [TS]

00:44:49   to really sell features that other [TS]

00:44:52   people have had for years that Apple is [TS]

00:44:54   probably going to do worse and come out [TS]

00:44:56   looking like Wow Apple is amazing and [TS]

00:44:57   innovative and the only stories that [TS]

00:44:59   will be hey apples playing catch-up are [TS]

00:45:01   going to be in the nerdy tech press that [TS]

00:45:02   we read you know well I mean I think [TS]

00:45:05   Apple is going to own privacy looks [TS]

00:45:08   probably the UI on the screen uh and [TS]

00:45:11   then you know maybe sound quality [TS]

00:45:14   because the echoes sound quality is not [TS]

00:45:15   that great I don't have a Google home [TS]

00:45:17   but who cares and it's sorry Shawn it's [TS]

00:45:20   not it's not great I mean you've seen [TS]

00:45:21   it's not very big it's a one little [TS]

00:45:23   dinky speaker thing in there right right [TS]

00:45:25   so Apple is probably going to own those [TS]

00:45:27   things but the usefulness of these [TS]

00:45:31   products is based so heavily on the [TS]

00:45:34   incredible speed and reliability of the [TS]

00:45:38   voice service that's where I have [TS]

00:45:40   concerns about Apple because Siri for [TS]

00:45:43   all of its smarts for all of its [TS]

00:45:45   wonderful international support for all [TS]

00:45:47   the different you know the more advanced [TS]

00:45:49   API that it has compared to like the [TS]

00:45:52   echo because like what I was saying [TS]

00:45:53   earlier about like Sierra having to [TS]

00:45:54   parse the way that people say things and [TS]

00:45:56   kind of just pass off to the application [TS]

00:45:58   like alright the user requested this [TS]

00:45:59   artist ID this track ID the way that [TS]

00:46:02   like the echo does it is that has a very [TS]

00:46:04   limited vocabulary of what you can [TS]

00:46:06   specify and then it just can tell you [TS]

00:46:08   like the exact words somebody said but [TS]

00:46:10   then it's up to the application to [TS]

00:46:11   figure out like how do i parse that [TS]

00:46:13   which is easier to implement it is it [TS]

00:46:17   enables a lot more things from day one [TS]

00:46:19   to be possible that API because you [TS]

00:46:20   don't have to wait around for them to [TS]

00:46:22   like to design your specific use case [TS]

00:46:25   but it's way harder to actually use for [TS]

00:46:28   anything non-trivial where Apple is [TS]

00:46:30   going to come in from is that you know [TS]

00:46:32   they're going to come in with Sirikit [TS]

00:46:33   support only I would imagine it's going [TS]

00:46:35   to be really great for these like 12 [TS]

00:46:38   the app types to integrate with this but [TS]

00:46:40   nobody else can or nobody else can do [TS]

00:46:43   anything useful with this so that's [TS]

00:46:44   gonna be problem number one and part [TS]

00:46:45   number two is just like again the [TS]

00:46:47   reliability of Siri and and the the [TS]

00:46:49   advancement of Siri I don't think they [TS]

00:46:51   have kept up and you know ever this is [TS]

00:46:54   always an argument everyone always [TS]

00:46:55   thinks like oh well I asked the Amazon [TS]

00:46:58   device about this thing and it gave me [TS]

00:47:00   this kind of weird answer and then I [TS]

00:47:01   asked Siri to give me a better answer or [TS]

00:47:02   the the Google or amp and Amazon devices [TS]

00:47:05   don't support my language or my country [TS]

00:47:07   and Siri does and that's all valid [TS]

00:47:09   everyone can have their own opinions but [TS]

00:47:10   I think overall it's fairly clear that [TS]

00:47:12   Siri has been for most people less [TS]

00:47:16   reliable and less smart on the whole [TS]

00:47:20   than the other services and this is the [TS]

00:47:22   kind of device where like you know on [TS]

00:47:24   your phone it's kind of a secondary [TS]

00:47:26   thing you know some people use it [TS]

00:47:27   heavily but for the most part like [TS]

00:47:28   everywhere else the Siri exists kind of [TS]

00:47:30   a secondary input type with this kind of [TS]

00:47:32   device it is the primary input method [TS]

00:47:34   and it has to be fast and it has to be [TS]

00:47:37   reliable and it has to get it right [TS]

00:47:39   almost every single time and that's what [TS]

00:47:42   makes the Amazon products which I have [TS]

00:47:44   the most experience with that's what [TS]

00:47:45   makes them so compelling when you're [TS]

00:47:47   used to the Apple ecosystem when you're [TS]

00:47:49   used to Siri when you first see an echo [TS]

00:47:51   you're like oh my god that was fast and [TS]

00:47:53   then as you start using it more more [TS]

00:47:55   you're like this this works like every [TS]

00:47:57   time and that has just never been a lot [TS]

00:48:00   of people's experience with Siri so for [TS]

00:48:03   this product to succeed I think Siri has [TS]

00:48:06   to be way better than it is now and [TS]

00:48:08   maybe it is maybe they're about to [TS]

00:48:11   unveil a brand new version of Siri to [TS]

00:48:12   everybody see that is way better and way [TS]

00:48:14   more reliable I guess I think it's very [TS]

00:48:16   likely based on their past performance [TS]

00:48:17   yeah those are all things that can hide [TS]

00:48:19   in the demo though from the PR [TS]

00:48:20   perspective like of course it's going to [TS]

00:48:22   work amazing in a demo because they [TS]

00:48:23   rehearse and you know it's all set up to [TS]

00:48:25   work perfectly [TS]

00:48:26   we won't know whether they've actually [TS]

00:48:28   done a good job with it until we get the [TS]

00:48:29   things in our hand so why they get I [TS]

00:48:31   think a bunch of positive reactions from [TS]

00:48:33   the audience that's there because most [TS]

00:48:35   people don't you know won't have any [TS]

00:48:37   experience with the existing devices [TS]

00:48:38   like this oh everything they see is new [TS]

00:48:39   and amazing and the performance will be [TS]

00:48:41   awesome on the stage because they're [TS]

00:48:42   good at making a demo and everything [TS]

00:48:43   like that and they'll get good press out [TS]

00:48:45   of it from everybody except the tech [TS]

00:48:46   press who knows they're playing catch-up [TS]

00:48:47   and this is assuming they don't even [TS]

00:48:49   have some big Wow feature I bet they [TS]

00:48:51   probably [TS]

00:48:51   have at least one headlining feature [TS]

00:48:54   that echoing home don't have whatever it [TS]

00:48:57   may be something that plays the Apple [TS]

00:48:59   strike it'll be privacy this is the [TS]

00:49:02   privacy angle too but also especially if [TS]

00:49:03   there's a one with the screen I bet they [TS]

00:49:06   can put better stuff more impressive [TS]

00:49:08   things on that screen than Amazon can on [TS]

00:49:10   their Amazon show whatever their [TS]

00:49:12   terrible name is oh yeah their thing [TS]

00:49:13   like it was like we were they in [TS]

00:49:14   something but Amazon is so bad at user [TS]

00:49:17   interface design I expect that to be [TS]

00:49:19   clunky and it'll be underpowered so they [TS]

00:49:21   can't do like whatever crazy GPU is [TS]

00:49:23   gonna be in the Apple one to have cool [TS]

00:49:25   effects and you know like just the same [TS]

00:49:27   kind of functionality but it's you know [TS]

00:49:28   even if it's just like nice screen [TS]

00:49:30   savers of your family that it pulls from [TS]

00:49:32   your photo library this is another angle [TS]

00:49:33   by the way of like a it's why Casey will [TS]

00:49:35   get one of these no matter you know and [TS]

00:49:38   these why might you interested like it's [TS]

00:49:40   cuz the Google home on I got because I [TS]

00:49:42   have lots of my life I used the Google [TS]

00:49:45   ecosystem it's got my email my calendar [TS]

00:49:47   and one copy of my photos but the real [TS]

00:49:50   copy of my photos are in Apple's photo [TS]

00:49:51   library and Google hoes is just my sort [TS]

00:49:53   of redundant backup that I use for you [TS]

00:49:55   know for search and other things like [TS]

00:49:56   that I'm interested in this one because [TS]

00:49:59   the other half of my life is not in the [TS]

00:50:01   Amazon ecosystem is in the Apple [TS]

00:50:02   ecosystem so I would like one of these [TS]

00:50:04   in my house so they'll have something [TS]

00:50:05   that I can talk to that has access to [TS]

00:50:07   the other half of my stuff and hopefully [TS]

00:50:09   can do something interesting with it the [TS]

00:50:12   other problem is going to have is that [TS]

00:50:14   the support for home automation devices [TS]

00:50:17   is going to limit it to home kit and the [TS]

00:50:20   echo and other and the other things echo [TS]

00:50:23   supports way more than just home kit and [TS]

00:50:25   home kit is still like like every new [TS]

00:50:28   smart home device is still not shipping [TS]

00:50:31   with home kit today many of them are but [TS]

00:50:34   there's still a lot out there and [TS]

00:50:35   especially most of the cheap ones that [TS]

00:50:37   most people are probably actually buying [TS]

00:50:39   a lot of them are not home compatible [TS]

00:50:42   they could play that up with a the [TS]

00:50:43   privacy angle right like I think you're [TS]

00:50:45   right about that but the way they can [TS]

00:50:47   spin that is part of their pitch to you [TS]

00:50:49   about privacy like I think it's one of [TS]

00:50:52   the strengths homekit has in the [TS]

00:50:53   stringent requirements during the more [TS]

00:50:55   stringent security requirements with for [TS]

00:50:57   devices that comply with it they won't [TS]

00:50:59   come right out and say yeah there's not [TS]

00:51:01   as much home good stuff out there and [TS]

00:51:03   the best stuff is not home kit [TS]

00:51:04   compatible [TS]

00:51:05   but the stuff you do by that is actually [TS]

00:51:07   home kit certified will have a slightly [TS]

00:51:09   less chance of letting people own your [TS]

00:51:11   entire house that's true yeah but so [TS]

00:51:13   like again it's gonna be the kind of [TS]

00:51:15   thing we're like the main selling points [TS]

00:51:17   to this are going to be things that most [TS]

00:51:20   people aren't really going to think to [TS]

00:51:23   ask about or care about and the main [TS]

00:51:26   downsides of it are probably going to be [TS]

00:51:28   cost and support of devices out there [TS]

00:51:31   and the reliability and and intelligence [TS]

00:51:35   of its voice assistant those are pretty [TS]

00:51:36   big things that's why I'm worried about [TS]

00:51:39   this product I don't think that it's [TS]

00:51:41   going to go very far in the market [TS]

00:51:44   unless there's I mean we haven't seen it [TS]

00:51:46   or know anything about it yet we don't [TS]

00:51:48   even know technically that it's real so [TS]

00:51:50   this could all change when we see it but [TS]

00:51:52   I am very skeptical this product just [TS]

00:51:54   because it seems like it requires [TS]

00:51:56   strength that Apple doesn't have you [TS]

00:51:59   know it'll be a good test for this [TS]

00:52:01   because this device is in many ways like [TS]

00:52:03   Apple TV like it's you know a especially [TS]

00:52:07   the one with no screen a kind of a [TS]

00:52:08   faceless device that's cheap small it's [TS]

00:52:12   not a Mac it's not an iOS to buy [TS]

00:52:13   strictly speaking even those running iOS [TS]

00:52:15   under the covers and Apple TV is like [TS]

00:52:19   well look look how badly they've done [TS]

00:52:21   with that device they've made so many [TS]

00:52:22   revisions have used to be this giant mac [TS]

00:52:24   running you know tiger that did some [TS]

00:52:26   weird stuff with iTunes and it morphed [TS]

00:52:28   into this puck which was better but then [TS]

00:52:29   it didn't get much better this the Siri [TS]

00:52:32   in a puck in a tube and or whatever [TS]

00:52:34   thing is a great test to say is the [TS]

00:52:38   Apple TV not great because apples not [TS]

00:52:41   good at making this kind of device or is [TS]

00:52:42   the Apple TV not great because they were [TS]

00:52:44   never able to do the content deals or is [TS]

00:52:46   it some combination because it could be [TS]

00:52:48   that the Apple TV [TS]

00:52:49   the biggest thing hobbling it is all [TS]

00:52:51   their grand visions for how this is [TS]

00:52:53   going to change the way you watch TV [TS]

00:52:54   have been thwarted by the fact that they [TS]

00:52:56   can't get their deals done they cannot [TS]

00:52:58   produce a compelling offering that lets [TS]

00:53:00   people actually do all the things they [TS]

00:53:01   want to do and the poor are kind of [TS]

00:53:04   orphaned ghost town TV app on the Apple [TS]

00:53:08   TV is you know there's no better example [TS]

00:53:10   of the apples failure to bring it all [TS]

00:53:13   together on the TV front most people [TS]

00:53:15   don't have complaints about the hardware [TS]

00:53:16   again [TS]

00:53:17   terrible remote which hopefully will not [TS]

00:53:19   be an issue on this tube thing so it [TS]

00:53:21   could be that Apple is really good at [TS]

00:53:22   making embedded devices that efficiently [TS]

00:53:25   listen to audio and play music and make [TS]

00:53:27   it you know maybe they're really good at [TS]

00:53:28   that and in this case they don't need [TS]

00:53:30   any content deals because it's just a [TS]

00:53:31   you know a speaker and the microphones [TS]

00:53:33   at a tube but on the other hand if they [TS]

00:53:35   roll this out and it looks to us two [TS]

00:53:37   years later like up it's one of those [TS]

00:53:39   things that Apple makes like the Apple [TS]

00:53:41   TV that is kind of mediocre more [TS]

00:53:43   expensive than the competition and not [TS]

00:53:44   as good and then we just like sit there [TS]

00:53:46   and wait year after year for it to be [TS]

00:53:48   updated in some way well Apple refuses [TS]

00:53:50   to acknowledge the shortcomings yeah I [TS]

00:53:52   take small issue with what you said I've [TS]

00:53:53   really loved my Apple TV now to be fair [TS]

00:53:56   I use it for a very particular set of [TS]

00:53:59   tasks and it is very well suited to [TS]

00:54:02   basically what it boils down to is [TS]

00:54:04   playing Plex or playing Netflix and [TS]

00:54:06   that's basically all it ever does but [TS]

00:54:08   for those things it's actually quite [TS]

00:54:09   good in I mean I'm not saying the remote [TS]

00:54:12   is perfect by any stretch but it's fine [TS]

00:54:14   it's not great but it's fine it works I [TS]

00:54:18   I don't know I I wish it wasn't so [TS]

00:54:20   symmetrical but but complete compare it [TS]

00:54:22   to the competition the other pucks that [TS]

00:54:24   have 4k support that cost less money [TS]

00:54:26   that play Netflix just as well the [TS]

00:54:28   remotes are better on like that's why [TS]

00:54:29   people say I believe is not bad the [TS]

00:54:31   remote is bad [TS]

00:54:31   but Apple TV itself is not bad I use it [TS]

00:54:33   all the time too right but if you are in [TS]

00:54:36   the market for a puck and you don't have [TS]

00:54:37   a bunch of movies that you bought on [TS]

00:54:39   iTunes [TS]

00:54:39   apples puck costs more does less and is [TS]

00:54:43   worse in pretty much every way than the [TS]

00:54:45   competition and that's why people say [TS]

00:54:46   it's you know it's not the best puck [TS]

00:54:49   offering yeah that's fair I don't know [TS]

00:54:52   we'll see I mean we're only a couple [TS]

00:54:54   weeks away so we'll see what happens [TS]

00:54:55   yeah oh and then the other puck front is [TS]

00:54:57   like when the various versions were [TS]

00:54:59   introduced sometimes they were pretty [TS]

00:55:00   darn good right but Apple just is not [TS]

00:55:03   interested in keeping up with the [TS]

00:55:05   Joneses so everyone else gets 4k support [TS]

00:55:06   or does 24 frames per second output for [TS]

00:55:09   the film nerds or whatever and apples [TS]

00:55:10   like the one we got is fine let's say [TS]

00:55:13   there for a few years [TS]

00:55:14   don't worry about it maybe you update it [TS]

00:55:16   maybe we won't needs 4k is that a thing [TS]

00:55:19   that can't be a thing no way that's a [TS]

00:55:21   thing that's not a thing we are [TS]

00:55:25   sponsored this week by fracture a [TS]

00:55:27   wonderful photo decor company go to [TS]

00:55:29   fracture me calm [TS]

00:55:31   podcast editor ATP in the one-question [TS]

00:55:33   survey so they know you came from here [TS]

00:55:35   fracture prints photos in vivid color [TS]

00:55:37   directly on glass and look these days we [TS]

00:55:41   know you put your photos on on you know [TS]

00:55:44   Facebook Instagram whatever the case may [TS]

00:55:46   be you put them on these online services [TS]

00:55:47   they're at a timeline for what a day at [TS]

00:55:49   best and then they're just gone so many [TS]

00:55:52   of these photos just kind of get lost [TS]

00:55:53   forever because you never really go back [TS]

00:55:55   and look take the best ones whether it's [TS]

00:55:57   for you to decorate your house or [TS]

00:55:59   whether it's to give them as gift they [TS]

00:56:01   make wonderful gifts and get them [TS]

00:56:03   printed and hang them in your house or [TS]

00:56:05   give them to people who appreciate them [TS]

00:56:06   and if you're going to get them printed [TS]

00:56:08   there's lots of options to do this you [TS]

00:56:10   can get you know a paper kind of print [TS]

00:56:12   and everything then you have to frame it [TS]

00:56:13   then you got to hang it and you know the [TS]

00:56:15   frame frames are expensive or cheap [TS]

00:56:17   looking that you got to pick one of the [TS]

00:56:19   other usually and they you know they're [TS]

00:56:20   kind of a pain with fracture the prints [TS]

00:56:22   are glass it's it's like H it's a pane [TS]

00:56:25   of glass that is a photo print that goes [TS]

00:56:27   edge to edge you don't need a frame it [TS]

00:56:29   is kind of its own standalone object it [TS]

00:56:32   is a sleek frameless design and photos [TS]

00:56:35   look incredibly clean and modern in [TS]

00:56:37   these fracture glass sheets and they [TS]

00:56:41   even optimize color and contrast of your [TS]

00:56:43   photo to really make it pop in this [TS]

00:56:44   environment and it is incredible looking [TS]

00:56:47   I have these all over my house all over [TS]

00:56:48   my office people compliment them all the [TS]

00:56:50   time and again they make wonderful gifts [TS]

00:56:52   fractures come with a 60 day happiness [TS]

00:56:54   guarantee so your Cheryl of your order [TS]

00:56:56   and each fracture print is handmade in [TS]

00:56:58   Gainesville Florida [TS]

00:56:59   from us source materials in their carbon [TS]

00:57:02   neutral Factory so check it out today I [TS]

00:57:04   highly recommend it for more information [TS]

00:57:06   and 10% off your first order visit [TS]

00:57:08   fracture me comm / podcast and then they [TS]

00:57:12   ask you what podcast you came from and [TS]

00:57:14   say ATP and that one questions here [TS]

00:57:15   right that's it it helps support the [TS]

00:57:17   show once again 10% off your first order [TS]

00:57:19   at fracture me calm slash podcast make [TS]

00:57:22   sure you list at ATP as the source there [TS]

00:57:24   thank you very much to fracture for [TS]

00:57:25   sponsoring our show we're going to take [TS]

00:57:30   a really weird turn now [TS]

00:57:33   my name's talk about Google i/o that's [TS]

00:57:35   the thing and it was somewhat [TS]

00:57:37   interesting leave it's all timely right [TS]

00:57:39   and it's so timely giving are typically [TS]

00:57:41   a few weeks ago a indeed so Google IO [TS]

00:57:45   happened uh May 17 through 19 recording [TS]

00:57:48   this on the 24th and the only bit of IO [TS]

00:57:51   that I watched was the keynote but I did [TS]

00:57:54   watch the keynote and it was very well [TS]

00:57:56   given it was not an apple keynote it was [TS]

00:57:59   very good and if there's anything that [TS]

00:58:00   we can all agree that Apple is very good [TS]

00:58:03   at its doing a keynote presentation and [TS]

00:58:06   so I watched the keynote and by and [TS]

00:58:08   large I didn't think that there was that [TS]

00:58:12   much to discuss for us to discuss there [TS]

00:58:15   were a couple things though one was the [TS]

00:58:17   updates to Google photos which I am a [TS]

00:58:19   devout fan of yes I understand that I'm [TS]

00:58:22   giving Google my data yes I understand [TS]

00:58:25   that that can be creepy yes I understand [TS]

00:58:27   that there are penalties for doing so [TS]

00:58:28   yes I understand I am paying them and [TS]

00:58:31   yet they're still scanning all my data [TS]

00:58:33   despite the fact that I'm paying them [TS]

00:58:34   however I made the choice that to me the [TS]

00:58:38   benefits are worth it in the case of [TS]

00:58:39   Google photos and so that's just my [TS]

00:58:42   choice may not be right for you but it's [TS]

00:58:43   right for me um so what they've done is [TS]

00:58:46   they've done a lot with um sharing with [TS]

00:58:49   Google photos so me it's it's much [TS]

00:58:50   easier that to share kind of your photos [TS]

00:58:55   with your spouse or with those that are [TS]

00:58:57   at like an event like a party or [TS]

00:58:58   something like that and that looks [TS]

00:59:00   really cool it's trying to be more [TS]

00:59:02   proactive about you know hey it looks [TS]

00:59:04   like Marco and John are in all these [TS]

00:59:05   pictures do you want to share this with [TS]

00:59:06   them you'll make an album and [TS]

00:59:08   automatically share it with them [TS]

00:59:10   and that sort of stuff is really cool [TS]

00:59:11   and I'm looking forward to it although I [TS]

00:59:13   think it'll be more useful if I knew [TS]

00:59:15   more people that that were devout Google [TS]

00:59:19   photos users like myself but we'll see [TS]

00:59:21   but I thought the photos improvements [TS]

00:59:23   look neat so I tried to merge this in [TS]

00:59:25   the notes with the old question that we [TS]

00:59:28   had many many months ago from Marco Adam [TS]

00:59:30   was asking about family iCloud photo [TS]

00:59:33   libraries this is a broad general [TS]

00:59:35   question I think it was like we talked [TS]

00:59:37   about a long time but what back do we [TS]

00:59:38   mean and it's suddenly more relevant [TS]

00:59:40   because like Casey said this was a [TS]

00:59:41   headlining feature of their Google i/o [TS]

00:59:43   presentation of the Google Photos [TS]

00:59:45   portion of it like hey look at this neat [TS]

00:59:48   way to do a thing that they think is [TS]

00:59:50   common like you know you and your [TS]

00:59:52   partner your spouse would ever just want [TS]

00:59:55   to share all of your pictures with each [TS]

00:59:57   other not like on a case by case [TS]

00:59:59   spaces like AC was on [TS]

00:59:59   spaces like AC was on [TS]

01:00:00   which is another feature of like Oh [TS]

01:00:01   suggest sharing these or whatever would [TS]

01:00:02   just say look everything that I take [TS]

01:00:04   also short to this person and the way [TS]

01:00:07   they implemented it is they get to see [TS]

01:00:08   that stuff and then they can look at [TS]

01:00:10   them and save them into their own [TS]

01:00:11   library if they like them right oh I [TS]

01:00:14   like that one I want to keep that one I [TS]

01:00:15   keep that one so it's not it's it's more [TS]

01:00:18   like automatic by default offering of [TS]

01:00:20   your photos to someone else it but it's [TS]

01:00:23   still two separate libraries and the [TS]

01:00:25   broader question about from you know [TS]

01:00:27   from way back and then I hypercritical [TS]

01:00:28   and no I life is an island is the very [TS]

01:00:31   difficult problem the Apple has not yet [TS]

01:00:33   tackled but that they're slowly building [TS]

01:00:36   up the infrastructure to tackle I feel [TS]

01:00:37   like and I hope they address it soon is [TS]

01:00:40   the way my family at least uses photos [TS]

01:00:44   and the way I think a lot of families [TS]

01:00:45   would use photos if given the option [TS]

01:00:48   which is you know if you have two [TS]

01:00:50   parents and children both parents take [TS]

01:00:53   pictures of their children depending on [TS]

01:00:55   maybe at the same time at the same event [TS]

01:00:56   or one parent is with one child one [TS]

01:00:58   parents with or they take pictures on [TS]

01:01:00   their phone that they pictures with [TS]

01:01:01   their cameras however they take them [TS]

01:01:02   each parent is an adult and has their [TS]

01:01:05   own Apple ID or whatever Google account [TS]

01:01:08   or where they have their own accounts [TS]

01:01:09   which means in the Apple and Google [TS]

01:01:10   world they have their own photo [TS]

01:01:12   libraries and you know it's it's kind of [TS]

01:01:15   this siloed arrangement and yet in a [TS]

01:01:17   family situation usually you want all [TS]

01:01:21   the pictures at least all the pictures [TS]

01:01:23   of the kids probably all the pictures [TS]

01:01:24   period to be together in one big library [TS]

01:01:26   and not have to deal with you know two [TS]

01:01:29   different people's libraries and sharing [TS]

01:01:31   between them it's it's inefficient it's [TS]

01:01:33   hard to keep track of like the one [TS]

01:01:35   master library of family photos very [TS]

01:01:37   often the solution is oh just designate [TS]

01:01:39   one parent to be the official holder of [TS]

01:01:42   their Apple ID has this library right [TS]

01:01:44   that's what we do at our house [TS]

01:01:46   my wife's Apple ID she is the owner of [TS]

01:01:48   the photos library so on her iOS devices [TS]

01:01:51   she has access to all of our pictures on [TS]

01:01:53   my iOS devices and on my Mac I have [TS]

01:01:56   access to only the pictures I've taken [TS]

01:01:58   with my iPhone because all the other [TS]

01:02:01   pictures go into the big library and [TS]

01:02:03   periodically I have to manually export [TS]

01:02:06   unmodified original you know to make [TS]

01:02:09   sure I get all the stuff you know I [TS]

01:02:10   can't bother editing them I on my phone [TS]

01:02:12   or anything I have [TS]

01:02:13   just let them stream into my Mac export [TS]

01:02:16   all the unmodified originals and import [TS]

01:02:18   them into the quote-unquote real photo [TS]

01:02:19   library that is hers and we use that [TS]

01:02:22   this used to be mine and now it's hers [TS]

01:02:23   we've gone back and forth it but this is [TS]

01:02:25   this is not what I want and it's not [TS]

01:02:27   what any family wants and I think a lot [TS]

01:02:28   of families do get by by having the [TS]

01:02:30   designated person who owns the photo [TS]

01:02:31   library but it's terrible because of [TS]

01:02:33   some you know we take so many pictures [TS]

01:02:34   on our phones I don't to be signed into [TS]

01:02:36   my wife's Apple ID on my phone right [TS]

01:02:39   it's bad enough that we all had to do [TS]

01:02:40   that from the you know the old days of [TS]

01:02:42   like buying things through the App Store [TS]

01:02:44   and Apple does let you be signed into [TS]

01:02:46   the App Store as your spouse but sign it [TS]

01:02:47   everything else is you like they let you [TS]

01:02:49   do that for sharing of apps that's what [TS]

01:02:51   we do that we you know Aaron is me for [TS]

01:02:54   the app store but she is her in every [TS]

01:02:57   other way yeah an Apple added the [TS]

01:02:59   capability to do that because it is a [TS]

01:03:00   common arrangement but it's not great so [TS]

01:03:02   Apple eventually added a couple years [TS]

01:03:04   ago now the concept of a family where [TS]

01:03:07   you can make a family in Apple's [TS]

01:03:09   interface say here are the people who [TS]

01:03:10   are members of the family here are the [TS]

01:03:12   adults here are the children and family [TS]

01:03:14   sharing allows you to share applications [TS]

01:03:17   that that allow this I think the default [TS]

01:03:19   is to allow but Marco would know I think [TS]

01:03:20   you could configure your app to say it's [TS]

01:03:22   not shareable like I don't want you to [TS]

01:03:23   be able to share this but in my [TS]

01:03:25   experience pretty much all apps are like [TS]

01:03:26   this if I buy an app my children's the [TS]

01:03:30   iOS devices have access to to that app [TS]

01:03:32   just because I bought it it's a little [TS]

01:03:35   bit weirder with in-app purchases and [TS]

01:03:36   since so many things are free with [TS]

01:03:38   in-app purchases now it's still a little [TS]

01:03:39   bit weird but it is you know the the key [TS]

01:03:41   thing is Apple allows the concept of a [TS]

01:03:45   family to exist and membership in that [TS]

01:03:46   family to exist and that membership [TS]

01:03:48   bring certain sharing privileges that [TS]

01:03:49   only exist within the family including [TS]

01:03:51   some things of like my kids try to buy [TS]

01:03:52   stuff on their iOS device and it sends [TS]

01:03:54   me a notification that I have to approve [TS]

01:03:56   or deny like they're leveraging that [TS]

01:03:57   functionality to do that so they're [TS]

01:03:59   they're creeping up on it before it just [TS]

01:04:01   you be a bunch of a bunch of Apple IDs [TS]

01:04:03   that you'd be shared in weird ways [TS]

01:04:04   now you can construct a family unit and [TS]

01:04:07   and specify everything about it you can [TS]

01:04:09   give kids Apple IDs which you didn't use [TS]

01:04:11   to be able to do now you can they just [TS]

01:04:13   need to take the next step which is stop [TS]

01:04:15   siloing libraries of photos and it's a [TS]

01:04:19   really difficult problem because you [TS]

01:04:21   might think well I don't want all the [TS]

01:04:22   photos from two people to be shared [TS]

01:04:24   forever into one giant library [TS]

01:04:26   like how would that even work in terms [TS]

01:04:27   of billing and how do I keep some photos [TS]

01:04:30   private if I'm taking a million pictures [TS]

01:04:32   of my phone of like you know a bunch of [TS]

01:04:34   you know things in the hardware store [TS]

01:04:36   for some repair I'm doing and my wife [TS]

01:04:38   doesn't want them appearing at her phone [TS]

01:04:39   because you know that's just relevant to [TS]

01:04:41   me like it is a hard problem don't get [TS]

01:04:43   me wrong it is not like they should just [TS]

01:04:44   snap their fingers and do this they just [TS]

01:04:46   need to make incremental progress [TS]

01:04:47   towards in it eventually they need to [TS]

01:04:49   get there and even Google with their [TS]

01:04:51   thing of like oh you can just see all my [TS]

01:04:54   pictures and pick the ones that you want [TS]

01:04:55   that is still incremental progress [TS]

01:04:56   because this is still two entirely [TS]

01:04:58   different libraries it's just easing the [TS]

01:04:59   friction of how you get think money from [TS]

01:05:01   one thing to the other but I wouldn't [TS]

01:05:03   like that solution either beside [TS]

01:05:04   constantly thinking oh did you pull on [TS]

01:05:06   all the photos of yesterday or did you [TS]

01:05:08   did you forget some or where did you [TS]

01:05:10   leave off I just want them all to be in [TS]

01:05:11   one big pool I just wanted to be our [TS]

01:05:13   photos like the way it is now and so I [TS]

01:05:15   really hope Apple is slowly but surely [TS]

01:05:17   working towards it and I hope moogle is [TS]

01:05:19   too because I think that is that is a [TS]

01:05:22   better way for families to manage their [TS]

01:05:24   photos than any of the current systems I [TS]

01:05:27   agree with you who has the photo [TS]

01:05:30   libraries in your houses I do we have [TS]

01:05:34   two different ones with lots of [TS]

01:05:36   duplication and lots of wasted effort [TS]

01:05:39   and lots of wasted iCloud space and hard [TS]

01:05:42   drive space and we are our own people [TS]

01:05:44   and we you know have our own ways of [TS]

01:05:47   doing things we have some of our own [TS]

01:05:49   pictures we have a bunch of family [TS]

01:05:51   pictures it would be nice to have both [TS]

01:05:53   but usually what actually happens is [TS]

01:05:55   whenever one of us wants a picture the [TS]

01:05:57   other one took we asked cross the office [TS]

01:06:00   hey can you send me that picture [TS]

01:06:00   whatever whatever and then we either [TS]

01:06:03   airdrop it to week to each other or we [TS]

01:06:05   go browse our hard drives on our network [TS]

01:06:06   share and do it that way you get freaked [TS]

01:06:09   out about whether you're actually [TS]

01:06:10   getting original quality when you share [TS]

01:06:12   them with each other because almost all [TS]

01:06:13   the sharing interfaces do not give you [TS]

01:06:15   original quality yeah we don't we don't [TS]

01:06:16   do any of the sharing with like you know [TS]

01:06:18   in inside the Photos app like the shared [TS]

01:06:20   albums like that will do with like [TS]

01:06:21   sharing photos with friends or you know [TS]

01:06:23   for an event but but those are not full [TS]

01:06:25   quality as Jason's now pointed out I [TS]

01:06:27   think I upgraded this this past week [TS]

01:06:28   those are only like three megapixels I [TS]

01:06:30   mean they're very very small when when [TS]

01:06:32   I'm doing like transferred between TIFF [TS]

01:06:33   and I you know we just we either do [TS]

01:06:36   airdrop or like direct file transfer [TS]

01:06:38   over the network [TS]

01:06:39   like airdrop from the photos thing on [TS]

01:06:41   iOS sometimes is that full is that full [TS]

01:06:45   quality like do you get the raw if she [TS]

01:06:47   shot it in raw do you get a raw coming [TS]

01:06:48   over the wired you get a JPEG for four [TS]

01:06:51   transfers of Raw's that's when will [TS]

01:06:52   usually involve just the network shares [TS]

01:06:54   we're all just I will just open up her [TS]

01:06:56   hard drive on my computer over the [TS]

01:06:57   network and pull the file over Ethernet [TS]

01:06:59   because Ethan it's awesome airdrop is [TS]

01:07:01   usually when the photo has originated on [TS]

01:07:04   an iPhone when it was taken by an iPhone [TS]

01:07:06   then we will a or drop it you know you [TS]

01:07:08   know and that's that I'm pretty sure [TS]

01:07:09   that is the original file then in that [TS]

01:07:10   case the other terrible thing about [TS]

01:07:12   separate libraries and sharing photos is [TS]

01:07:15   it it either discourages you the [TS]

01:07:18   individual people from doing edits or it [TS]

01:07:19   makes you feel bad about it because say [TS]

01:07:21   you both have your own photos and your [TS]

01:07:22   own things and you've all done your own [TS]

01:07:24   edits and crop things and made them look [TS]

01:07:26   nice you would like it and like what I [TS]

01:07:29   would want to happen is look we're both [TS]

01:07:30   say you are both using photos I don't [TS]

01:07:32   know if you are but if you are both [TS]

01:07:33   using Apple's Photos app why can't I get [TS]

01:07:36   all of that give me the unmodified [TS]

01:07:38   original give me your modifications like [TS]

01:07:40   it keeps them all losslessly like it has [TS]

01:07:42   all that information your only choices [TS]

01:07:44   instead are what I do would export [TS]

01:07:47   unmodified original which I really hope [TS]

01:07:49   does what it says because I'm trusting [TS]

01:07:50   it but you are you are losing all of the [TS]

01:07:53   edits at that point because you're [TS]

01:07:54   saying forget about the edits and it's [TS]

01:07:55   like oh why did I even bother do it [TS]

01:07:57   happens when we go on vacation lot of [TS]

01:07:59   times we go on vacation and I'll putting [TS]

01:08:01   the photos into my photos library and my [TS]

01:08:03   Apple ID and like picking favorites and [TS]

01:08:05   doing edits and then I have to do this [TS]

01:08:06   laborious manual sync process it reminds [TS]

01:08:08   me of the old days when I would get a [TS]

01:08:09   new Mac and like manually do what [TS]

01:08:11   migration assistant does today which you [TS]

01:08:14   know it was fun the first five or six [TS]

01:08:15   hundred times so it eventually gets old [TS]

01:08:16   I will you know do all this picking and [TS]

01:08:20   editing and cropping and all this other [TS]

01:08:21   stuff and then when I come back to the [TS]

01:08:23   home computer I have to like make a [TS]

01:08:25   bunch of smart albums to like pull all [TS]

01:08:27   the favorites and export on modified [TS]

01:08:30   originals for those and then redo my [TS]

01:08:33   edits to make them look like I did over [TS]

01:08:34   there cribbing off of them to see how I [TS]

01:08:36   decided to crop it and so it's just it [TS]

01:08:37   is not good at all and the other choice [TS]

01:08:40   is to just be like okay well I'm not [TS]

01:08:42   going to I'm going to import them into [TS]

01:08:44   my library because I I have the device [TS]

01:08:46   with me and then when I get home to the [TS]

01:08:47   real library I well you know I'll just [TS]

01:08:50   dump them to haven't done [TS]

01:08:51   yeah modifications to them or I'll be [TS]

01:08:53   logged in as my wife the whole vacation [TS]

01:08:55   and use her account in this thing it's [TS]

01:08:57   just a bunch of bad options yeah we we [TS]

01:09:00   solved that problem again by duplication [TS]

01:09:02   there's lots of duplication the only [TS]

01:09:04   thing that helps here is that TIFF and I [TS]

01:09:07   both have very different editing styles [TS]

01:09:09   she's way better at it but I will often [TS]

01:09:12   take my own pass at things before her or [TS]

01:09:15   if I don't think she's going to care [TS]

01:09:16   about that photo more for something I [TS]

01:09:18   took and so usually my usually anything [TS]

01:09:21   edited in my library was edited by me [TS]

01:09:23   and she takes her version it makes a way [TS]

01:09:25   better version later but that's again [TS]

01:09:28   just we solve this vert we saw this [TS]

01:09:29   problem just by duplication more and [TS]

01:09:31   more duplication and it's a terrible [TS]

01:09:33   solution but it does avoid a lot of the [TS]

01:09:35   problems that any kind of shared library [TS]

01:09:38   would add it's just really inefficient [TS]

01:09:40   another feature request our photos [TS]

01:09:42   anything that I do a lot is that I don't [TS]

01:09:44   have to people because like the editing [TS]

01:09:46   styles I have just me who has different [TS]

01:09:47   ideas about editing it's a very frequent [TS]

01:09:49   operation for me is to duplicate a photo [TS]

01:09:51   so I can do a different edit on it [TS]

01:09:52   because you can't have more than one [TS]

01:09:53   edit per photo alright so with a faired [TS]

01:09:55   a shared library family photo library [TS]

01:09:58   one of the features they should have is [TS]

01:10:00   the ability to do multiple edits of a [TS]

01:10:02   single photo so then you could have the [TS]

01:10:03   TIFF edit and the Marco edit with one or [TS]

01:10:06   you know unmodified original beneath [TS]

01:10:08   them and have an interface to that that [TS]

01:10:10   would be great instead of me you know [TS]

01:10:11   instead of me duplicating a thing [TS]

01:10:13   getting image one two three four you [TS]

01:10:15   know copy JPEG and do modifications [TS]

01:10:17   there and you know like it's a thing I [TS]

01:10:20   think I think people do multiple [TS]

01:10:21   possible edits even if it's just two [TS]

01:10:22   different crops right one one crop that [TS]

01:10:25   you're going to use for sharing with the [TS]

01:10:26   family because you know they're going to [TS]

01:10:27   be looking at on a phone and then a [TS]

01:10:28   different crop and edit for the one that [TS]

01:10:30   you're going to like you know print on a [TS]

01:10:32   fracture or something and then throw up [TS]

01:10:33   on the wall because it'll be much bigger [TS]

01:10:35   yeah but lots of a low-hanging fruit in [TS]

01:10:39   the photo world for you know just [TS]

01:10:41   features like this but then the family [TS]

01:10:42   sharing is not lying for it is a really [TS]

01:10:44   difficult problem and I do see Apple [TS]

01:10:45   making progress towards that I just [TS]

01:10:47   can't wait for them to just finally to [TS]

01:10:49   finally do it I think in general like [TS]

01:10:52   kind of broadening this a little bit one [TS]

01:10:54   of my biggest wish list items for the [TS]

01:10:57   Mac specifically and I know this is it [TS]

01:11:00   probably involve iOS also just because [TS]

01:11:02   of the way this big sink setup works but [TS]

01:11:04   I just want the photos app to just get [TS]

01:11:07   more just get better and get more added [TS]

01:11:10   to it you know like first on the realm [TS]

01:11:12   of get better I really hope they finally [TS]

01:11:15   sync the recognition data between images [TS]

01:11:19   so that each new device doesn't have to [TS]

01:11:21   run its CPU hot for three days just to [TS]

01:11:23   figure it all out itself that's your [TS]

01:11:25   still do you still use that feature I've [TS]

01:11:27   kind of given up on it already I don't [TS]

01:11:28   think you can turn it off [TS]

01:11:30   I know but like in terms of oh I'm [TS]

01:11:32   thinking mostly of the faces I know [TS]

01:11:33   you're talking about like find me the [TS]

01:11:34   picture of like a boat right that whole [TS]

01:11:36   thing which I think works okay yeah it [TS]

01:11:38   works a google photos one is better but [TS]

01:11:40   the face one is the one that I had the [TS]

01:11:41   most hope for and that makes me the most [TS]

01:11:43   disappointed I continue to manually [TS]

01:11:45   keyboard key word label the faces that I [TS]

01:11:47   care about which is incredibly tedious [TS]

01:11:50   and the Photos app fights you every step [TS]

01:11:52   of the way like when they remove the [TS]

01:11:54   keywords from underneath you can't [TS]

01:11:55   display them anymore yeah it's so hard [TS]

01:11:57   to figure out which ones have keywords [TS]

01:11:58   on them or not and I was like well why [TS]

01:12:01   you need to do that just let the face [TS]

01:12:02   recognition figure it out and I try to [TS]

01:12:03   train it and I try to convince it and [TS]

01:12:06   it's close but it still just you know [TS]

01:12:09   guess what people who are genetically [TS]

01:12:11   related to each other tend to look [TS]

01:12:13   similar and it's it's a hard problem I [TS]

01:12:17   don't blame them for a Google doesn't [TS]

01:12:19   get it perfectly either but I just wish [TS]

01:12:21   I could just say I don't have to worry [TS]

01:12:23   about that if I want to find pictures of [TS]

01:12:24   my son I can just type in his name and [TS]

01:12:26   it will find all the pictures of my son [TS]

01:12:27   reality and photos it will find 15 [TS]

01:12:29   percent of the photos of my son [TS]

01:12:31   yeah so photos there is so much area for [TS]

01:12:35   improvement with photos not only in the [TS]

01:12:38   intelligence of what you're just talking [TS]

01:12:39   about the intelligence of the [TS]

01:12:40   recognition and the faces and everything [TS]

01:12:42   and the syncing of that data which is [TS]

01:12:43   always my complaint that like why does [TS]

01:12:45   you still eyes have to do this over and [TS]

01:12:46   over again and burn through with battery [TS]

01:12:47   for the first few days or weeks that you [TS]

01:12:49   own it and then just the entire Photos [TS]

01:12:53   app on iOS it's fine I wouldn't say it's [TS]

01:12:56   great but it's fine the Mac Photos app [TS]

01:12:59   really needs a lot of help it is it is [TS]

01:13:02   seemingly designed by people who don't [TS]

01:13:04   use photos apps and who have never used [TS]

01:13:07   it if to edit more than like one photo [TS]

01:13:09   or to browse a library that had more [TS]

01:13:11   than ten photos it really does seem like [TS]

01:13:14   it is it was like rushed out once [TS]

01:13:18   three years ago whenever it came out and [TS]

01:13:20   then not touched since in any meaningful [TS]

01:13:22   way and I really hope that changes [TS]

01:13:24   because there's so much promise because [TS]

01:13:26   the sinking system they've built for [TS]

01:13:28   iCloud photo library has been rock-solid [TS]

01:13:30   for me and for everyone else I've talked [TS]

01:13:32   to who uses it it has been rock solid [TS]

01:13:35   it's a great sink system it's integrated [TS]

01:13:38   into everything it gets everything look [TS]

01:13:39   your phone automatically the sharing is [TS]

01:13:42   decent you know it's not amazing what's [TS]

01:13:43   decent good enough I just wish the app [TS]

01:13:45   on the Mac was better it is still not as [TS]

01:13:49   good or not as responsive or not as easy [TS]

01:13:52   to work through you know more than four [TS]

01:13:54   photos as even iPhoto let alone aperture [TS]

01:13:58   or Lightroom like it there's so much [TS]

01:14:00   room for improvement in just the basics [TS]

01:14:03   of navigating it picking through photos [TS]

01:14:05   rating photos deleting the ones you [TS]

01:14:07   don't want to keep editing ones with [TS]

01:14:09   uniform and minor edits like it seems [TS]

01:14:11   like it's designed right now for maximum [TS]

01:14:13   friction and to be as error-prone as [TS]

01:14:15   possible and I just really really wish [TS]

01:14:18   and and this is a long shot I wish they [TS]

01:14:21   would like I don't put a different team [TS]

01:14:22   on it put a different designer on it [TS]

01:14:24   something get some new blood in there to [TS]

01:14:26   make the Photos app on the Mac great and [TS]

01:14:29   it or even just good I'm not asking for [TS]

01:14:33   a lot here but like make it usable for [TS]

01:14:36   people to actually go through and sort [TS]

01:14:39   through the thousands of pictures that [TS]

01:14:42   we can now take with these amazing [TS]

01:14:43   devices in our pockets all the time like [TS]

01:14:45   make that better make it easier make it [TS]

01:14:48   like don't show me 16 different [TS]

01:14:50   animations to all these different levels [TS]

01:14:51   deepen in this weird hierarchy just do [TS]

01:14:54   it just you know respond to my [TS]

01:14:55   keystrokes quickly when you're deleting [TS]

01:14:57   photos out of a big list move it to the [TS]

01:14:59   right to the next one instead of like [TS]

01:15:00   just do do what every other photo app [TS]

01:15:03   has ever done before and this one [TS]

01:15:06   doesn't do it so I really really hope [TS]

01:15:08   they got better imagine if they added [TS]

01:15:10   features to imagine that like they [TS]

01:15:12   actually added features like there the [TS]

01:15:14   next year there would be more features [TS]

01:15:15   in it imagine that would be great I'm [TS]

01:15:18   not I'm not even see I'm not asking for [TS]

01:15:19   much I'm kind of asking for features at [TS]

01:15:21   this point enough but like what you said [TS]

01:15:24   about that my I think I listed photos [TS]

01:15:27   apples photos of all my favorite [TS]

01:15:28   applications one year and we did like a [TS]

01:15:30   favorites list and it's for the reason [TS]

01:15:31   you [TS]

01:15:32   said it's for the sinking and yeah I [TS]

01:15:33   know people have horror stories about [TS]

01:15:35   like all my images for black thumbnails [TS]

01:15:36   and I lost all my data in bla bla but [TS]

01:15:38   like you Marco for me it is bid and [TS]

01:15:41   solid I just had my fingers crossed that [TS]

01:15:42   I'm not just lucky right and that you [TS]

01:15:44   know that it really is I think it really [TS]

01:15:46   is reasonably reliable and so that's why [TS]

01:15:50   I love it because it solved that problem [TS]

01:15:51   for me or not for me for my wife because [TS]

01:15:53   it's on her phone but anyway it's all [TS]

01:15:55   the problem for one of us that's by the [TS]

01:15:56   way that's one of the things I use a [TS]

01:15:57   google photos for because we have this [TS]

01:15:59   thing where her Apple ID is the family [TS]

01:16:01   photo library and it's on her phone and [TS]

01:16:04   her iPad but then I have Google photos [TS]

01:16:06   running on her account on her Mac [TS]

01:16:08   uploading to my Google account so if I [TS]

01:16:11   want to pull one of our family photos i [TS]

01:16:13   launched google photos on my phone [TS]

01:16:14   because it's the only way on my phone [TS]

01:16:15   that i can get to our families photos [TS]

01:16:17   and so yes i pay for you know one [TS]

01:16:19   terabyte of storage in google and also [TS]

01:16:22   the maximum that you can buy an apple so [TS]

01:16:24   it is not particularly monetarily [TS]

01:16:25   efficient this is the system I have I've [TS]

01:16:28   just never remembered that we're talking [TS]

01:16:29   about Google i/o yeah yeah this is a [TS]

01:16:32   song about Alice well I mean the photo [TS]

01:16:34   photos was the thing photos the thing [TS]

01:16:36   they talk about in like credit where [TS]

01:16:37   credit is due to Google they are very [TS]

01:16:39   smart for giving them me that ability [TS]

01:16:40   the fact that I can run a client a thing [TS]

01:16:42   a terrible thing on my Mac that somehow [TS]

01:16:45   sucks all of the photos out of my Apple [TS]

01:16:49   photos library and uploads into Google [TS]

01:16:51   by the way and I give it to second rant [TS]

01:16:53   on this little thing it's like it's a [TS]

01:16:54   little menu bar icon it does what I want [TS]

01:16:56   it to do which is like I'll find I don't [TS]

01:16:58   know how I'll do it but I'll dig through [TS]

01:17:00   your Apple crap and I will find your [TS]

01:17:01   photos probably in a way that Apple [TS]

01:17:03   doesn't want us to do what they do it [TS]

01:17:04   and it works and I will push them up to [TS]

01:17:06   the Google account of your choosing and [TS]

01:17:08   so from my wife's account I can push up [TS]

01:17:11   to mine but this little menu bar thing [TS]

01:17:13   has this feature in terrible scare [TS]

01:17:16   quotes where it will say it will tell [TS]

01:17:20   you how many uploads failed and [TS]

01:17:22   sometimes it will give you a [TS]

01:17:24   notification site try try to upload this [TS]

01:17:26   these pictures to Google photos and they [TS]

01:17:28   failed click here to learn more and you [TS]

01:17:30   click and it gives you this terrible [TS]

01:17:32   little tiny dialogue that lists these [TS]

01:17:33   very long file paths that you can't see [TS]

01:17:35   the right-hand side of unless you scroll [TS]

01:17:36   all right and it says these are all the [TS]

01:17:39   ones that failed and there's a button on [TS]

01:17:41   it or other you know other is a button [TS]

01:17:43   or menu item whatever lets you through [TS]

01:17:45   this thing say [TS]

01:17:45   please retry them it's like don't wait [TS]

01:17:49   for me to tell you just keep trying [TS]

01:17:51   little google thing and maybe here's the [TS]

01:17:53   thing maybe it does automatically retry [TS]

01:17:55   maybe it's going to retry no matter what [TS]

01:17:57   anyway but the fact that the UI has a [TS]

01:17:59   way for you to see what failed and click [TS]

01:18:01   the retry button compels me to every [TS]

01:18:03   time I'm on her computer do that and and [TS]

01:18:06   because their file names are all obscure [TS]

01:18:08   I can't tell is it trying to reach up [TS]

01:18:09   load these seven rows over and over [TS]

01:18:10   again just not upload rows at all and [TS]

01:18:12   every time it fails to upload them it [TS]

01:18:13   tells me about it or is it if I never [TS]

01:18:15   touched it would it merely retry [TS]

01:18:17   constantly and eventually succeed no way [TS]

01:18:20   to tell one of the worst like sort of [TS]

01:18:23   like nerd baiting interfaces because [TS]

01:18:25   once you give me an interface to see the [TS]

01:18:26   failed and give me a button to tell it [TS]

01:18:28   to retry it's cruel it is a cruel [TS]

01:18:31   interface and if someone Google's [TS]

01:18:32   listening to this a either make your [TS]

01:18:35   thing never tell me about this and just [TS]

01:18:36   upload them all or be make it so that [TS]

01:18:40   they have some explanation for the [TS]

01:18:42   failures and like or some kind of [TS]

01:18:44   progress indication or something that [TS]

01:18:45   will like if you're going to give me [TS]

01:18:46   information give me actionable [TS]

01:18:47   information but otherwise I would prefer [TS]

01:18:49   it if you just did your best and kept [TS]

01:18:52   trying without any input from me and it [TS]

01:18:54   drives me nuts I've lost my train of [TS]

01:18:56   thought and I was in too busy being [TS]

01:18:57   angry about the thing Google i/o no I [TS]

01:19:00   know I know exactly what you're thinking [TS]

01:19:02   of and it's so bad you're absolutely [TS]

01:19:04   right you use that thing as well Casey [TS]

01:19:05   yeah yeah the uploader that's on the [TS]

01:19:07   mandy do you get suckered into going [TS]

01:19:09   into the fail dialog Phyllis I do and it [TS]

01:19:12   seems like there's about 10 files mostly [TS]

01:19:15   raw now I have a ton of raw files don't [TS]

01:19:17   get me wrong so it uploads the raw as a [TS]

01:19:19   general point of fact but there are like [TS]

01:19:22   10 files that it just seems to forever [TS]

01:19:25   be confused about and you can sort of [TS]

01:19:27   figure out what they are but yes the [TS]

01:19:29   everything you described an emphatic [TS]

01:19:30   thumbs up to well really thumbs down to [TS]

01:19:32   the uploader but thumbs up to what you [TS]

01:19:34   were saying because I completely agree [TS]

01:19:35   have you gotten to the point where you [TS]

01:19:37   wrote down the file paths so the next [TS]

01:19:39   time a dialog comes up you compare or [TS]

01:19:41   screenshot it or otherwise try to record [TS]

01:19:43   it because I'm coming close to that [TS]

01:19:45   because you know you can't remember what [TS]

01:19:46   they're all like nonsense names or [TS]

01:19:48   whatever like is it the same 3 files [TS]

01:19:51   that it's been telling you about every [TS]

01:19:52   day for the past you know year and a [TS]

01:19:53   half and I don't know it's different [TS]

01:19:55   amounts I can tell you that sometimes [TS]

01:19:57   it's five sometimes it's a hundred [TS]

01:19:58   sometimes it's three [TS]

01:19:59   five sometimes it's 50 like it tells you [TS]

01:20:00   the counts on them anyway I'm this is a [TS]

01:20:03   very long trip around for me too and [TS]

01:20:04   fatica Lee agreeing with Marcos other [TS]

01:20:06   complaint and that using Apple's photos [TS]

01:20:08   feels like walking through like [TS]

01:20:09   waist-deep molasses right and this is [TS]

01:20:11   this is an esoteric thing that I think [TS]

01:20:14   only that I'm particularly sensitive to [TS]

01:20:16   and I think not everybody has the same [TS]

01:20:18   hang-ups that I do about responsiveness [TS]

01:20:19   right but I have big deep deep hang-ups [TS]

01:20:23   about responsiveness and everything I do [TS]

01:20:26   in photos because in photos you do a lot [TS]

01:20:28   of repetitive go to the next thing crop [TS]

01:20:31   move resize adjust star favorite keyword [TS]

01:20:35   go to the next thing delete go to the [TS]

01:20:37   next thing like that cycle that thing I [TS]

01:20:39   do when I when I do photos when I go [TS]

01:20:42   through my photos every single operation [TS]

01:20:45   takes just a little bit longer than I [TS]

01:20:47   think is reasonable it everything has [TS]

01:20:49   this lag has this okay eventually I'll [TS]

01:20:52   do that oh did you want to crap oh you [TS]

01:20:55   want exit full-screen oh you want to [TS]

01:20:58   enter full screen oh you want edit [TS]

01:21:01   DeSoto wait a second okay now I'm [TS]

01:21:03   drawing the other thing like I want this [TS]

01:21:05   to be so fast that before the key comes [TS]

01:21:08   up off the keyboard I have it activated [TS]

01:21:11   on key down for cry like I wanted to be [TS]

01:21:12   so incredibly fast because I mean I but [TS]

01:21:16   at the time we bought this 5k iMac it's [TS]

01:21:18   the fastest iMac you could buy and the [TS]

01:21:20   fastest Mac you could buy period in [TS]

01:21:22   single threaded performance I don't know [TS]

01:21:24   what the holdup is I do have a massive [TS]

01:21:26   library I admit that my library is not [TS]

01:21:28   small maybe if I literally did have a [TS]

01:21:31   hundred photos it would be fine I have I [TS]

01:21:33   think I'm up to 80,000 90,000 I forget I [TS]

01:21:35   don't know if I broke 100k yet I have a [TS]

01:21:37   lot of photos I understand it's a [TS]

01:21:39   difficult problem case but if like this [TS]

01:21:43   is this is what I want out of it and my [TS]

01:21:45   perception of it is that it is slower [TS]

01:21:46   now than it was a life oh that's not [TS]

01:21:48   fair because when I was I was using [TS]

01:21:50   iPhoto especially older versions of I [TS]

01:21:52   froze I had way fewer photos right but [TS]

01:21:55   on the other hand I also had a slower [TS]

01:21:56   Mac and there was no SSD and like I know [TS]

01:21:59   either way that's what I personally want [TS]

01:22:01   out of this program and aside from the [TS]

01:22:02   features I want it to just be so so much [TS]

01:22:06   faster make every single operation that [TS]

01:22:08   I do like have as little lag as possible [TS]

01:22:13   no transition no no you know redrawing [TS]

01:22:17   things and again it's not just a [TS]

01:22:19   transitions very very often I will hit a [TS]

01:22:22   key combo to like zoom to full screen [TS]

01:22:25   and either will ignore the fact that I [TS]

01:22:28   hit spacebar to be like that never [TS]

01:22:29   happened I'm never going to do that more [TS]

01:22:31   it will it will start at the animation [TS]

01:22:34   to go into editing mode but I you know [TS]

01:22:35   double click the thing or click into [TS]

01:22:37   edit mode it will start it perceptively [TS]

01:22:40   after I am completely done with the [TS]

01:22:42   input I have clicked or double clicked [TS]

01:22:43   or whatever nothing happens on the [TS]

01:22:46   screen for fractions of a second that [TS]

01:22:48   seemed like an eternity and then the [TS]

01:22:50   animation begins I just want to strangle [TS]

01:22:52   somebody [TS]

01:22:52   alright let's bring this back around [TS]

01:22:54   remember we were talking about Google [TS]

01:22:56   i/o like three hours ago is that related [TS]

01:22:59   to that and getting photos getting by [TS]

01:23:02   some of us there was a comment I saw [TS]

01:23:03   from somebody maybe it was Gruber maybe [TS]

01:23:04   who's just retweeting somebody somebody [TS]

01:23:06   saying that using Google photos in your [TS]

01:23:09   web browser it's more responsive than [TS]

01:23:11   using the native Apple Photos app I [TS]

01:23:13   wouldn't quite go that far because I [TS]

01:23:17   don't do the sort of going through [TS]

01:23:19   photos picking and editing and tagging [TS]

01:23:21   and stuff in Google photos but I do use [TS]

01:23:23   Google photos in the web interface [TS]

01:23:24   frequently basically to find a picture [TS]

01:23:26   that I'm looking for I go into it I use [TS]

01:23:27   the search which i think is pretty neat [TS]

01:23:29   I try to use its facial recognition [TS]

01:23:31   which is not really that much better [TS]

01:23:32   than apples but it's you know it's what [TS]

01:23:34   I've got or whatever and my perception [TS]

01:23:37   of scrolling through fro especially like [TS]

01:23:38   scrolling through photos by date or [TS]

01:23:39   filtering or searching those operations [TS]

01:23:41   do actually feel faster in Google photos [TS]

01:23:44   in Chrome then using the native app but [TS]

01:23:47   for the picking and zooming and [TS]

01:23:48   everything I imagine you'd end up with [TS]

01:23:50   like download speed being an issue [TS]

01:23:51   because you gotta you know I if I want [TS]

01:23:53   to see the full res photo to edit and I [TS]

01:23:54   want to go to the next full res photo [TS]

01:23:55   that's going to happen a way faster on [TS]

01:23:57   my 5k iMac with everything coming off [TS]

01:23:58   the SSD than it is going to be pulling [TS]

01:24:00   that stuff over the network so I'm not [TS]

01:24:02   going to go as far as whoever that [TS]

01:24:03   person was who said that the web version [TS]

01:24:05   felt better than the native but the fact [TS]

01:24:07   that there are any operations in which [TS]

01:24:08   is a contest shows that Apple though is [TS]

01:24:10   a long way to go and kudos to Google for [TS]

01:24:12   making essentially a web page that you [TS]

01:24:15   can go to that I can scroll through [TS]

01:24:16   literally 90,000 photos and find what I [TS]

01:24:17   want it's pretty amazing yeah because [TS]

01:24:19   this isn't like a web versus native [TS]

01:24:21   argument this is just the Photos app on [TS]

01:24:24   the Mac it's just not very good at all [TS]

01:24:26   like it [TS]

01:24:27   really is quite poor and especially when [TS]

01:24:30   you get into any kind of operation like [TS]

01:24:31   this where you're trying to go through a [TS]

01:24:32   batch of photos and pick through and [TS]

01:24:35   delete and maybe star or do minor edits [TS]

01:24:38   on even its again it's just like it [TS]

01:24:40   fights you at every turn like it seems [TS]

01:24:41   like it wants to show you its animations [TS]

01:24:43   more than it wants you to get your work [TS]

01:24:45   done [TS]

01:24:45   you're just you're always waiting for it [TS]

01:24:47   to do its thing [TS]

01:24:48   to transition itself to animate [TS]

01:24:50   something it's also I don't know it what [TS]

01:24:53   do you guys think of the the incredibly [TS]

01:24:56   deep like modal hierarchy that it has in [TS]

01:25:00   the various editing controls like you [TS]

01:25:02   know they typically like in a lot of [TS]

01:25:04   image editors you have like a browsing [TS]

01:25:07   mode and then you enter editing mode and [TS]

01:25:10   in editing mode pretty much all the [TS]

01:25:11   controls are visible it were or at least [TS]

01:25:13   very close or at least like can be [TS]

01:25:15   collapsed out really quickly with like a [TS]

01:25:17   triangle drop-down thing but with photos [TS]

01:25:19   both on iOS and on the Mac it it has [TS]

01:25:22   these like this like second-tier so [TS]

01:25:24   everything is like 2 or 3 levels in [TS]

01:25:26   where like you go into editing mode and [TS]

01:25:28   you don't just have a crop control you [TS]

01:25:29   have the like you know it controls box [TS]

01:25:33   and you open up the controls box and [TS]

01:25:35   then you can crop from in there or so [TS]

01:25:37   and like everything is like 2 or 3 [TS]

01:25:39   levels deep and I find that quite [TS]

01:25:42   cumbersome in real use and I know it's [TS]

01:25:45   kind of a challenge on mobile because [TS]

01:25:46   there's not a lot of space for controls [TS]

01:25:48   but on the Mac that's not true but it [TS]

01:25:50   seems like on the Mac they have copied [TS]

01:25:52   over the iPhone style anyway [TS]

01:25:54   unnecessarily I guess for consistency or [TS]

01:25:56   because they didn't have any better [TS]

01:25:58   ideas I don't know but there are a lot [TS]

01:26:01   of powerful controls that photos on the [TS]

01:26:03   Mac has but they're buried under so many [TS]

01:26:05   different levels and modes and you have [TS]

01:26:07   to toggle them on every single time and [TS]

01:26:08   all these different things that I find [TS]

01:26:10   it just incredibly cumbersome is it just [TS]

01:26:13   me no that's that was I remember the [TS]

01:26:15   last time I complained about it was [TS]

01:26:17   about the crop aspect original crop [TS]

01:26:18   aspect original price because because it [TS]

01:26:20   wouldn't remember and also as you point [TS]

01:26:22   out because why do I have to go three [TS]

01:26:24   levels deep to get to this anyway like [TS]

01:26:25   on my 5k IMAX screen it's comical that I [TS]

01:26:28   have to click the thing to go to the [TS]

01:26:30   screen where I can get my crop options [TS]

01:26:32   then click the thing that brings up the [TS]

01:26:33   crop options then click like there's so [TS]

01:26:35   much room on the side of that screen you [TS]

01:26:37   could put literally every edit control I [TS]

01:26:39   mean [TS]

01:26:40   is a big screen there's a lot of [TS]

01:26:42   resolution there's not that many [TS]

01:26:44   controls here like you know that's why [TS]

01:26:48   applications you know from Adobe and [TS]

01:26:50   summit have a bunch of configurable [TS]

01:26:52   power pallets I'm not saying photos [TS]

01:26:54   needs configurable palettes that is you [TS]

01:26:55   know Pro feature the regular people you [TS]

01:26:57   don't to throw a bunch of Palestinian [TS]

01:26:58   faces it's too much but the old version [TS]

01:27:01   you know iPhoto before photos had a more [TS]

01:27:04   mac like interface where they said well [TS]

01:27:05   we got all the screen real estate [TS]

01:27:06   let's put as many of the commonly used [TS]

01:27:09   editing functions on the screen at the [TS]

01:27:11   same time it's you know it's visible [TS]

01:27:13   interface in the same way that Apple [TS]

01:27:14   used to be all into the toolbars and [TS]

01:27:16   stuff like don't hide everything away if [TS]

01:27:18   you have if you can make the controls [TS]

01:27:20   visible to somebody it's easier them [TS]

01:27:22   going going hunting for them and the [TS]

01:27:24   multi-layer certainly is elegant and [TS]

01:27:25   clean but it adds insult to injury on [TS]

01:27:27   the timing thing because even a setting [TS]

01:27:29   aside the mysterious lag before anything [TS]

01:27:30   happens all those transitions have you [TS]

01:27:32   know some kind of animation and they add [TS]

01:27:34   up and it doesn't remember your [TS]

01:27:36   preferences and if you do the same thing [TS]

01:27:37   over and over again you just feel like [TS]

01:27:38   you're it's like you're eating dinner [TS]

01:27:40   but every time you wanted to take a bite [TS]

01:27:42   of your dinner you had to go to the [TS]

01:27:43   kitchen take a fork out of the [TS]

01:27:44   silverware drawer closed sword will come [TS]

01:27:46   back down take a line take a bite of [TS]

01:27:47   your dinner and then throw that fork [TS]

01:27:50   away into the garbage the next time you [TS]

01:27:51   want to take a bite you got to get up [TS]

01:27:52   from your seat go to the chicken go to [TS]

01:27:54   get a floor or take out your fork closer [TS]

01:27:56   to our come back sit down take a bite [TS]

01:27:57   with it throw the fork away that's what [TS]

01:27:58   using photos feels like my word I could [TS]

01:28:02   not have put it better that's that's [TS]

01:28:04   perfect that's exactly how it feels so [TS]

01:28:07   Kotlin is a thing remember we're talking [TS]

01:28:10   about i/o kids so Google announced first [TS]

01:28:16   party support or official blessing if [TS]

01:28:18   nothing else for Kotlin now Kotlin is [TS]

01:28:20   the language by JetBrains JetBrains is a [TS]

01:28:24   third party entity if you're done a [TS]

01:28:27   developer or were once a.net developer [TS]

01:28:28   like myself [TS]

01:28:30   resharper is a JetBrains thing if i'm [TS]

01:28:33   not mistaken your recovery i'm a [TS]

01:28:34   developer [TS]

01:28:35   recovering content developer and so [TS]

01:28:38   JetBrains knows development tools pretty [TS]

01:28:41   darn well and they decided to come up [TS]

01:28:44   with Kotlin which my vague understanding [TS]

01:28:47   is runs on the JVM it is it is [TS]

01:28:49   compatible with the Android libraries [TS]

01:28:52   what does it Android studio [TS]

01:28:54   I believe it is shoot I probably have [TS]

01:28:56   that wrong I apologize but anyway the [TS]

01:28:58   thing the ide that is the official [TS]

01:29:00   blessed ie [TS]

01:29:01   I believe started as a JetBrains IDE [TS]

01:29:04   this is for all of Android development [TS]

01:29:06   not just Kotlin and so um so yeah now [TS]

01:29:09   Google has said hey we understand the [TS]

01:29:12   Collins a thing we embrace it if you [TS]

01:29:14   want to make your apps and in Colin [TS]

01:29:16   Colin then feel free and what's really [TS]

01:29:19   fascinating about Colin is it's really [TS]

01:29:22   eerily similar to Swift now at this [TS]

01:29:25   point anyone with a neckbeard is [TS]

01:29:28   probably saying well actually it's not [TS]

01:29:30   exactly like Swift at all and bla bla [TS]

01:29:32   but the point is at a glance it looks [TS]

01:29:35   really really really similar to Swift [TS]

01:29:37   and that's a huge improvement because if [TS]

01:29:40   you've ever seen how absolutely bananas [TS]

01:29:43   closures are in Java or at least up [TS]

01:29:47   until modern versions of Java which I [TS]

01:29:49   don't think Android supports or maybe [TS]

01:29:51   has just recently supported closures are [TS]

01:29:54   comically awful and so Kotlin is a new [TS]

01:29:59   ish language it was started around the [TS]

01:30:01   same time as Swift and looks really [TS]

01:30:03   really similar to Swift there's a [TS]

01:30:05   website that's going around we'll put a [TS]

01:30:07   link in the show notes it is not a [TS]

01:30:08   flawless comparison of Swift and Kotlin [TS]

01:30:10   but it gives you a basic idea of what [TS]

01:30:13   the two of them look like side by side [TS]

01:30:14   we'll put that in the show notes like I [TS]

01:30:15   said this is super cool the team at work [TS]

01:30:18   had been kind of looking at Kotlin and [TS]

01:30:22   debating whether or not they they wanted [TS]

01:30:24   to dive in with it but it kind of pushed [TS]

01:30:26   their pump the breaks because it wasn't [TS]

01:30:28   officially blessed [TS]

01:30:29   well now it's officially blessed and so [TS]

01:30:31   now we're going to start using it as for [TS]

01:30:34   well really the Android teams go and [TS]

01:30:35   start using as far as I'm aware so this [TS]

01:30:38   is all really cool stuff and I'm really [TS]

01:30:39   excited about it and I'm interested to [TS]

01:30:42   see if server-side Swift and server-side [TS]

01:30:44   Kotlin if either of those really becomes [TS]

01:30:47   a thing and if so do both of them become [TS]

01:30:49   a real thing or is it just Swift or just [TS]

01:30:52   Kotlin and you know we are there like [TS]

01:30:54   cross compatibility libraries between [TS]

01:30:56   the two I'm just curious to see where [TS]

01:30:57   all this goes but I think this is a [TS]

01:30:58   super positive move by Google cuz man [TS]

01:31:00   the versions of Java that our team is [TS]

01:31:02   using oh they're ugly man are they ugly [TS]

01:31:07   so this website that compares Swift's [TS]

01:31:09   and Colin I mean it's a useful thing to [TS]

01:31:11   have and you know one of the things [TS]

01:31:13   people are most interested about when [TS]

01:31:14   they hear in your language is like what [TS]

01:31:15   does it look like and so this website is [TS]

01:31:17   kind of saying at the top level here's [TS]

01:31:21   how they look similar and they do look [TS]

01:31:22   very similar like what is the syntax so [TS]

01:31:24   what are they use for defining these [TS]

01:31:26   common constructs and everything as you [TS]

01:31:28   scroll down this page you eventually get [TS]

01:31:30   to things that I'm more interested in [TS]

01:31:32   which is alright well so for the easy [TS]

01:31:34   stuff like addy define a function in a [TS]

01:31:36   variable and iterate over things and [TS]

01:31:38   stuff like that yeah every language has [TS]

01:31:39   those but you get to the things that [TS]

01:31:43   define the language that have nothing to [TS]

01:31:45   do with the syntax like the way swiftly [TS]

01:31:47   --nz on protocols and how it uses them [TS]

01:31:49   to implement its standard library and [TS]

01:31:50   how you're expected to use them in your [TS]

01:31:52   functions versus using inheritance and [TS]

01:31:53   stuff like that and the struct versus [TS]

01:31:55   class thing those are the things that [TS]

01:31:57   make swift swift more you know [TS]

01:32:00   practically speaking more than the than [TS]

01:32:02   the syntax because the syntax is the [TS]

01:32:04   thing people care about it's kind of [TS]

01:32:05   like that's the cover of the book but [TS]

01:32:06   what's in the book is what really makes [TS]

01:32:08   it different and if you scroll on this [TS]

01:32:10   thing you see the Colin is actually at [TS]

01:32:13   least superficially similar to Swift in [TS]

01:32:15   that it supports a lot of the same [TS]

01:32:17   constructs as tuple return values it [TS]

01:32:19   does have protocols it's difficult for [TS]

01:32:22   me to tell without knowing anything [TS]

01:32:23   about Colin other than reading up a web [TS]

01:32:25   pages about it how deep the similarity [TS]

01:32:27   goes in terms of the things I just said [TS]

01:32:28   with like you know how how does it use [TS]

01:32:30   protocols in you know how does it the [TS]

01:32:33   language expect you sort of culturally [TS]

01:32:35   and as expressed through its own [TS]

01:32:36   standard library to use protocols versus [TS]

01:32:38   inheritance does it have the struct [TS]

01:32:40   versus class distinction with the same [TS]

01:32:42   trade-offs of Swift has or does it not [TS]

01:32:44   have that at all that's that's kind of [TS]

01:32:47   the interesting question to me is you [TS]

01:32:51   know how language looks is kind of good [TS]

01:32:53   in that you'll be like okay I'm not [TS]

01:32:55   scared of this it doesn't look like you [TS]

01:32:57   know or lying or Haskell it looks like [TS]

01:32:58   something I'm familiar with so I feel [TS]

01:33:00   comfortable diving right in but then you [TS]

01:33:04   know what does this language bring in [TS]

01:33:07   terms of new constructs and new ways of [TS]

01:33:09   programming and to that and the more the [TS]

01:33:11   other things I've heard about Colin [TS]

01:33:12   maybe Casey can correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

01:33:13   is that it has some things in its tool [TS]

01:33:17   chest or standard library or whatever [TS]

01:33:18   the Swift doesn't yet [TS]

01:33:20   in terms of concurrency is that the case [TS]

01:33:21   I don't know if Kotlin has it but I can [TS]

01:33:24   assure you that that Swift is not really [TS]

01:33:26   yet I mean they swift as Grand Central [TS]

01:33:28   Dispatch but it's not entirely the sort [TS]

01:33:31   of thing that most people want like what [TS]

01:33:32   most people want is more along the lines [TS]

01:33:34   of dotnet say sink await and that [TS]

01:33:37   certainly does not exist in Swift I I [TS]

01:33:38   honestly don't know if it exists in [TS]

01:33:40   common yeah but that's why I had heard [TS]

01:33:42   that it had either some son-of-a sinks [TS]

01:33:44   that the Kotlin has some kind of async [TS]

01:33:46   stuff or maybe also co-routines like go [TS]

01:33:47   or you know that it was ahead of Swift [TS]

01:33:49   in the area of concurrency because they [TS]

01:33:51   had they had chosen a solution for that [TS]

01:33:52   and had undertaken it and so if ii still [TS]

01:33:55   like it still swift knows that it needs [TS]

01:33:57   to add it eventually and they don't have [TS]

01:33:58   their the big solution for that and like [TS]

01:34:00   i said of the meantime it's like use [TS]

01:34:01   Grand Central Dispatch obviously Colin [TS]

01:34:04   is not an option for Apple because Colin [TS]

01:34:06   does not press Objective C Interop which [TS]

01:34:08   is kind of important for Apple so yeah [TS]

01:34:11   there's that and you know for our Google [TS]

01:34:17   this is kind of weird that this is [TS]

01:34:19   coming from a company that's outside [TS]

01:34:20   Google like this is the move for Google [TS]

01:34:22   to buy them now because they're the [TS]

01:34:24   reason this can happen is a JVM based [TS]

01:34:25   language and they have is you know you [TS]

01:34:27   don't have to use Java there's lots of [TS]

01:34:28   other language there on top of the JVM [TS]

01:34:29   and here's one of them and they're [TS]

01:34:31   Kotlin is reportedly really really good [TS]

01:34:33   about Java compatibility because that's [TS]

01:34:35   that's their equivalent of objective-c [TS]

01:34:37   inter-app it's you know no you totally [TS]

01:34:39   can use this with your java code and [TS]

01:34:41   even the weird nitty-gritty corner case [TS]

01:34:43   details will make that interrupt like [TS]

01:34:45   perfect because that's that's this [TS]

01:34:46   thing's whole purpose in life so it [TS]

01:34:48   could be the Kotlin ends up being Google [TS]

01:34:51   Swift do they just buy this company or [TS]

01:34:52   whatever is an open standard just [TS]

01:34:54   adopted whole-hog and say you know what [TS]

01:34:55   stop like Apple has said stop using the [TS]

01:34:58   other language use this one instead from [TS]

01:35:00   now on all of our examples are all [TS]

01:35:03   libraries all over everything will be in [TS]

01:35:04   this Kotlin world I mean the two main [TS]

01:35:07   barriers that one this company is not [TS]

01:35:09   owned by Google yet and to the name is [TS]

01:35:10   terrible letter enough k ot li n big [TS]

01:35:17   thumbs down apologize that's someone's [TS]

01:35:19   last name but when you're naming a [TS]

01:35:21   computer language marketing counts and [TS]

01:35:23   Swift is a better name it's an island [TS]

01:35:26   off Russia I believe or something like [TS]

01:35:28   that it's there is a thing or place that [TS]

01:35:31   it is named after [TS]

01:35:33   and I don't remember what it is and I [TS]

01:35:34   mean it's okay on the plus side on the [TS]

01:35:37   plus side it's a little easier to search [TS]

01:35:38   for because there are a few things other [TS]

01:35:40   than this island or whatever that are [TS]

01:35:42   named Kotlin whereas there's a gazillion [TS]

01:35:43   things that are named Swift or that have [TS]

01:35:46   the word Swift in them not the least of [TS]

01:35:48   which is Taylor Swift but um but I don't [TS]

01:35:51   think it really rolls off the tongue [TS]

01:35:53   either so I don't know win some lose [TS]

01:35:56   some [TS]

01:35:56   it's like Apple with the place names for [TS]

01:35:57   Mac OS like it's good for you just this [TS]

01:35:59   year's OS is named at this place in [TS]

01:36:01   California you can get it with kind of [TS]

01:36:02   vanity place name sort of regional [TS]

01:36:04   things like that with yearly releases [TS]

01:36:07   but if you're going to name a language [TS]

01:36:09   probably not the best idea to name it [TS]

01:36:11   after some obscure place that's like [TS]

01:36:13   near the people who made it but what can [TS]

01:36:15   you do it's their thing they name it [TS]

01:36:16   right up until Google buys it and [TS]

01:36:17   rebrands it indeed but now I'm really [TS]

01:36:22   excited about this I think this is [TS]

01:36:23   really awesome again I mean look it I [TS]

01:36:25   forget what version of Java that our our [TS]

01:36:29   team is using but it's at least a [TS]

01:36:31   generation or two old and when you look [TS]

01:36:33   at how they use closures and what they I [TS]

01:36:35   think what they have to do is they have [TS]

01:36:37   to make like an anonymous class and like [TS]

01:36:40   implement a function on that class or [TS]

01:36:42   something along those lines the [TS]

01:36:43   particular details aren't really that [TS]

01:36:45   important just the point is that to make [TS]

01:36:48   a closure it is just comically just [TS]

01:36:51   weird [TS]

01:36:52   and in clunky and ridiculous and so even [TS]

01:36:56   just getting a language that supports [TS]

01:36:58   closures better I think is a huge win [TS]

01:37:00   yes I know that more modern versions of [TS]

01:37:03   Java do support this sort of thing but [TS]

01:37:06   but again based off of what I see [TS]

01:37:08   day-to-day it isn't a thing in our world [TS]

01:37:11   in whatever version of Java we're [TS]

01:37:13   running on and this is already a huge [TS]

01:37:16   improvement [TS]

01:37:16   I thought jumper programmers liked tons [TS]

01:37:19   of complexity in making tons of classes [TS]

01:37:20   isn't that the whole point of [TS]

01:37:21   programming in Java they're like when [TS]

01:37:23   their ID does that for them I just I'm [TS]

01:37:25   to two or three characters and just [TS]

01:37:26   autocomplete at all thanks to our three [TS]

01:37:28   sponsors this week Squarespace mail [TS]

01:37:30   route and fracture and we will see you [TS]

01:37:32   next week [TS]

01:37:36   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:37:39   mean to begin cuz it was accidental oh [TS]

01:37:43   it was accidental John didn't do any [TS]

01:37:48   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:37:50   him cuz it was accidental it was [TS]

01:37:55   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:37:59   notes at 80 P dot F M and if four into [TS]

01:38:04   Twitter you can follow them at CAS II [TS]

01:38:09   while ISS so that's Casey list and a are [TS]

01:38:13   Co AR m and T Marco Arment SI r AC USA [TS]

01:38:21   Syracuse [TS]

01:38:35   you know I really hope that the new [TS]

01:38:38   MacBook actually comes out soon like you [TS]

01:38:40   know and and you know people are saying [TS]

01:38:42   they might come out next week or two [TS]

01:38:44   weeks from it everybody see I really [TS]

01:38:47   hope that it does because I cannot wait [TS]

01:38:49   to hear what you think of it after you [TS]

01:38:51   use it for like a month [TS]

01:38:53   I really am curious to hear this because [TS]

01:38:55   you tend to have relatively similar [TS]

01:38:58   needs as I do yeah and you know most [TS]

01:39:01   most people who I know who have had the [TS]

01:39:04   12-inch MacBook who have enjoyed it have [TS]

01:39:07   had much lighter needs you know it's [TS]

01:39:09   people who were who were writers or her [TS]

01:39:11   doing like basic productivity tasks like [TS]

01:39:12   email and stuff on it mostly I don't [TS]

01:39:15   know a lot of programmers who used them [TS]

01:39:17   and so I would I would love to hear your [TS]

01:39:21   opinion of it when you when you get it [TS]

01:39:23   and I can't say I'm rooting for you to [TS]

01:39:25   hate it but I am it that might be [TS]

01:39:28   interesting if you did I don't know I I [TS]

01:39:30   just I really want to hear your opinion [TS]

01:39:32   of it and that's assuming that they [TS]

01:39:34   don't make like massive upgrades to it [TS]

01:39:37   on this next version which I doubt they [TS]

01:39:39   I'm expecting the same thing but with KB [TS]

01:39:42   Lake well to be fair I don't think I [TS]

01:39:44   would be doing very much development on [TS]

01:39:45   it you know if I did it would just be [TS]

01:39:47   for personal things like it's unlikely [TS]

01:39:49   that I would do any real work and by [TS]

01:39:52   that I mean work for my job work on it I [TS]

01:39:56   would certainly write for my blog and [TS]

01:39:57   that's just Visual Studio code which is [TS]

01:39:59   electron based but unlike slack is [TS]

01:40:00   actually well done and though and so III [TS]

01:40:05   would do a little development sort of [TS]

01:40:08   kind of in that regard but the [TS]

01:40:10   likelihood of me running xcode for more [TS]

01:40:12   than a few minutes to do like a quick [TS]

01:40:14   fix or something like that is not [TS]

01:40:16   terribly likely so i understand what [TS]

01:40:20   you're saying and by and large I agree [TS]

01:40:22   with you and I am also interested in it [TS]

01:40:23   but I don't think it's a perfect apples [TS]

01:40:26   to apples comparison because I will [TS]

01:40:28   probably not be doing much quote unquote [TS]

01:40:30   real work on it [TS]

01:40:32   so eventually assume my work ever buys a [TS]

01:40:35   new line of apples laptops and doesn't [TS]

01:40:38   continue to buy the 2015's all three of [TS]

01:40:40   us will have daily access to a Mac with [TS]

01:40:45   the new low profile keyboard and that [TS]

01:40:47   will [TS]

01:40:47   be interesting test case one I guess for [TS]

01:40:50   reliability well speaking of reliability [TS]

01:40:52   I just learned that the Mac the 2015 [TS]

01:40:56   MacBook Pro I have a work has the screen [TS]

01:40:58   delamination problem Oh like the first I [TS]

01:41:01   thought it was I thought it was like [TS]

01:41:02   someone had rubbed off the anti glare [TS]

01:41:03   surface but now seeing Gruber post [TS]

01:41:06   pictures of his issue and hearing other [TS]

01:41:07   people talk about it that it's a [TS]

01:41:09   delamination thing which in theory I [TS]

01:41:11   could just go again replace but I'm not [TS]

01:41:12   going to because it's not my computer [TS]

01:41:13   and I don't want to be without it at [TS]

01:41:15   work but then all three of us having the [TS]

01:41:17   keyboard we'll see where we all end up [TS]

01:41:19   with in terms of liking or disliking the [TS]

01:41:21   feel of the keyboard we'd have heard a [TS]

01:41:23   lot of reports from people saying that [TS]

01:41:25   they really loved it and that the old [TS]

01:41:26   keyboards feel like junk now and I feel [TS]

01:41:28   like that could definitely be a thing [TS]

01:41:29   but then also reliability if all three [TS]

01:41:31   of us get it and within a couple months [TS]

01:41:33   all three of us have keyboard problems [TS]

01:41:34   that caused them to be repaired again [TS]

01:41:36   perhaps not statistically significant [TS]

01:41:38   even though that phrase means nothing [TS]

01:41:39   and then with no anything but anyway it [TS]

01:41:42   is something versus if it's just Marco [TS]

01:41:45   that has the problem in our keys work [TS]

01:41:46   fine for year after year yeah I mean if [TS]

01:41:49   ends up being the case and if yours are [TS]

01:41:50   perfect then I will gladly go in and get [TS]

01:41:52   mine serviced and not complain about it [TS]

01:41:54   anymore after well for maybe we should [TS]

01:41:58   also use like outdoors where it's hot [TS]

01:42:00   I'm in case you can do that down there [TS]

01:42:01   in the south but like if you're gonna [TS]

01:42:02   take your beach and stuff I'm just using [TS]

01:42:04   mine in that condition office I'm never [TS]

01:42:06   gonna run into whatever heat expansion [TS]

01:42:07   thing you're running into what seemed [TS]

01:42:08   that it was like in the 70s it wasn't [TS]

01:42:10   even that hot but but what happened like [TS]

01:42:13   when I when I first the problem like [TS]

01:42:14   just the Oh key was stuck down and then [TS]

01:42:17   I eventually dislodged it and it kind of [TS]

01:42:19   you know stuck back up what when I [TS]

01:42:22   realize it was a bigger problem was when [TS]

01:42:23   I was sitting you know in this like you [TS]

01:42:25   know 75 degree you know environment [TS]

01:42:27   typing away all of a sudden lots of keys [TS]

01:42:31   started misbehaving and feeling weird [TS]

01:42:33   sounding different and clicking weirdly [TS]

01:42:35   and being less reliable and that's when [TS]

01:42:38   I realized this is not just one speck of [TS]

01:42:40   dust under one key this is like many [TS]

01:42:43   keys suddenly misbehaving and then since [TS]

01:42:47   that day it hasn't happened again so [TS]

01:42:49   like this is not just a dust thing this [TS]

01:42:51   is this is an actual flaw in the way [TS]

01:42:53   these things react to something that [TS]

01:42:55   seems like it might be heat but I don't [TS]

01:42:58   know it's it's really I hope this is a [TS]

01:43:01   very thing that I can just get fixed [TS]

01:43:03   once but I just I don't have high hopes [TS]