The Accidental Tech Podcast

224: Yearning for Reflection


00:00:00   this is the show that will not end kuba [TS]

00:00:05   boga Jewett's kuba said that apple used [TS]

00:00:09   to have many edits of one original this [TS]

00:00:11   is within the context of photos apps [TS]

00:00:13   aperture had it and called it versions [TS]

00:00:15   you could have many versions of one [TS]

00:00:18   master and it worked this is with regard [TS]

00:00:20   to what john was asking for last episode [TS]

00:00:23   the nice reminder reminder of what we've [TS]

00:00:26   lost you know for people who are in the [TS]

00:00:29   Apple ecosystem and remember the days [TS]

00:00:32   when Apple had a pro video a pro photo [TS]

00:00:36   editing app and then one day they didn't [TS]

00:00:38   anymore and Lightroom is great and you [TS]

00:00:40   can get it in it's by Adobe and it's [TS]

00:00:41   good that there's competition in that [TS]

00:00:42   market but very often I forget that [TS]

00:00:46   aperture even existed if you had [TS]

00:00:49   reminded me that aperture existed I [TS]

00:00:50   probably would have remembered this [TS]

00:00:51   multi-version things because I did try [TS]

00:00:53   aperture a few times especially when [TS]

00:00:54   they got like that where I used to share [TS]

00:00:56   its library with iPhoto in some weird [TS]

00:00:58   way that never really worked quite right [TS]

00:01:00   you know I kind of missed that I wish [TS]

00:01:02   that stuff would come I wish I thought [TS]

00:01:04   of stuff we'll come back to photos and [TS]

00:01:05   if you run out of iPhoto stuff to steal [TS]

00:01:08   you can bring stuff from aperture like [TS]

00:01:10   it's all in the family they've got that [TS]

00:01:11   source code that those people are still [TS]

00:01:12   there somewhere right all right and then [TS]

00:01:15   an anonymous person wrote in and said I [TS]

00:01:18   was speaking with an Apple Mac OS [TS]

00:01:19   engineer when they said they will or [TS]

00:01:21   have been making better versions of the [TS]

00:01:24   new macbook pro keyboard and using them [TS]

00:01:25   in newly produced units without any [TS]

00:01:26   public acknowledgement or change of [TS]

00:01:28   model number by implication Apple will [TS]

00:01:31   also be using these refined keyboards in [TS]

00:01:32   any MacBook Pro keyboards they said that [TS]

00:01:35   this refinement of component designs is [TS]

00:01:36   very common and they said that it is [TS]

00:01:39   often good to wait a few months after [TS]

00:01:40   new product is released so that you can [TS]

00:01:42   get the revised versions of any [TS]

00:01:43   components that fact that were found to [TS]

00:01:45   have had issues after all why do they [TS]

00:01:46   all have to prove John right I like the [TS]

00:01:49   idea of them uh you know modifying the [TS]

00:01:51   product but not changing the the model [TS]

00:01:53   number like just that just to add an [TS]

00:01:55   error mystery kind of like oh these are [TS]

00:01:57   the good ones yeah I know I know it's [TS]

00:01:58   exactly the same part it looks exactly [TS]

00:02:00   the same of the model number is the same [TS]

00:02:01   but these the good ones we learned so [TS]

00:02:03   much about about assembling the old ones [TS]

00:02:05   to the degree you know put magic special [TS]

00:02:07   dust in it like I mean they do it you do [TS]

00:02:08   refine your manufacturing process like [TS]

00:02:10   you refine the assembly you could even [TS]

00:02:12   refine some of the [TS]

00:02:13   the materials for the pieces you could [TS]

00:02:15   source them from different places this [TS]

00:02:16   happens the manufacturer of any remotely [TS]

00:02:19   complicated good and I imagine you don't [TS]

00:02:21   always change the model number but as a [TS]

00:02:23   consumer this this is like telling us [TS]

00:02:26   what we want to hear like if you buy [TS]

00:02:28   later they're better like I always [TS]

00:02:29   believe that voodoo too and you know it [TS]

00:02:31   was good to like wait a little bit even [TS]

00:02:32   if only from like the the old-style [TS]

00:02:36   American car battle days of American car [TS]

00:02:38   manufacturing where you don't buy the [TS]

00:02:40   cars that were assembled on a Friday [TS]

00:02:41   because the workers don't care that much [TS]

00:02:42   and they just want to go off of the [TS]

00:02:43   weekend right and so they don't do a [TS]

00:02:44   good job assembling your car the idea [TS]

00:02:46   that after after some company has been [TS]

00:02:49   building a thing for some period of time [TS]

00:02:51   every part of the process of building it [TS]

00:02:53   becomes refined and the people slash [TS]

00:02:57   machine slash whatever get better at [TS]

00:02:59   building the thing even if every single [TS]

00:03:01   part of it is the same and so you kind [TS]

00:03:03   of don't want like the very first [TS]

00:03:05   PlayStation 4 off the assembly line [TS]

00:03:07   maybe you want the 7,000 or 100,000 [TS]

00:03:11   versus the first three but all those are [TS]

00:03:15   things that is kind of like modern-day [TS]

00:03:18   folk tales I tell myself to make myself [TS]

00:03:20   feel better about delaying purchases for [TS]

00:03:22   a small amount of time it's kind of the [TS]

00:03:23   opposite of Margot's folk tales that he [TS]

00:03:24   tells himself to make himself feel [TS]

00:03:26   better about buying things immediately [TS]

00:03:27   but we all have heard that make us feel [TS]

00:03:29   the biggest feel good about our [TS]

00:03:30   decisions honestly I I would like to [TS]

00:03:34   believe this uh but I just I just don't [TS]

00:03:37   know and by the way in my defense the [TS]

00:03:39   MacBook Escape came out in October I [TS]

00:03:42   bought it in March oh look at you [TS]

00:03:44   waiting six months which one the first [TS]

00:03:47   one of the second one because you didn't [TS]

00:03:48   buy it before you did order it before it [TS]

00:03:50   even was shipping to anybody if I recall [TS]

00:03:51   yes that's true [TS]

00:03:52   but the one I actually oh what I didn't [TS]

00:03:55   cancel that I let deliver to me the [TS]

00:03:57   MacBook escaped I ordered it in March [TS]

00:03:59   well that's good because the one you got [TS]

00:04:01   they've totally sorted out those sticky [TS]

00:04:02   keyboard situation mmm this anonymous [TS]

00:04:07   person would say Oh Marco got the last [TS]

00:04:08   bad one but now they're using all these [TS]

00:04:10   refine ones that have the same model [TS]

00:04:11   number mm-hmm we respond to this week by [TS]

00:04:15   betterment investing made better go to [TS]

00:04:18   betterment comm slash ATP to learn more [TS]

00:04:21   betterment is a smarter way to invest [TS]

00:04:23   your money providing investing advice [TS]

00:04:25   through smart technology [TS]

00:04:27   made an investing service and human [TS]

00:04:29   advisors they have changed the industry [TS]

00:04:31   using the same strategies that financial [TS]

00:04:33   advisors use the clients who have [TS]

00:04:34   millions of dollars but now they're [TS]

00:04:36   available to everyone this includes [TS]

00:04:38   smart rebalancing global diversification [TS]

00:04:41   and investments tax efficient strategies [TS]

00:04:43   and tax harvesting and so much more [TS]

00:04:45   betterments mission is to help you [TS]

00:04:47   manage and grow your investments to [TS]

00:04:49   build your financial future all with low [TS]

00:04:52   fees [TS]

00:04:52   so you lose less of your money along the [TS]

00:04:55   way because you know if you do the math [TS]

00:04:57   typical investment fees and costs really [TS]

00:04:59   add up over time and betterments fees [TS]

00:05:01   are a fraction of the cost of other [TS]

00:05:03   financial services and betterment is so [TS]

00:05:06   easy to use they've won awards for their [TS]

00:05:09   customer experience you can even see for [TS]

00:05:11   yourself by logging into a demo account [TS]

00:05:12   right on the website if you're curious [TS]

00:05:13   and and for a limited time if you sign [TS]

00:05:15   up for betterment you may qualify for a [TS]

00:05:17   free canary home security system so [TS]

00:05:20   terms and conditions do apply and [TS]

00:05:22   investing involves risk to learn more [TS]

00:05:24   visit betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

00:05:28   betterment comm slash ATP betterment [TS]

00:05:31   investing made better ah let's start the [TS]

00:05:37   show proper let's do what we really need [TS]

00:05:40   to do let's do what we've been waiting [TS]

00:05:42   on for several months now let's talk [TS]

00:05:44   about software methodologies Marco why [TS]

00:05:47   don't you start [TS]

00:05:48   I believe in fully test-driven agile [TS]

00:05:51   stand-up parking-lot element oh god stop [TS]

00:05:55   okay so let's talk about WDC so for some [TS]

00:05:58   reason you don't know what we're talking [TS]

00:05:58   about WTC is well by developer [TS]

00:06:00   conference it is happening next week as [TS]

00:06:02   we record this in San Jose California [TS]

00:06:04   first time that any of us have been to [TS]

00:06:07   San Jose for dub-dub it did happen there [TS]

00:06:10   back in the days before anyone really [TS]

00:06:11   cared about Apple don't write me uh but [TS]

00:06:14   now we're coming back to San Jose it's [TS]

00:06:15   going to be new experience for all of us [TS]

00:06:17   and there's a lot to talk about there's [TS]

00:06:20   a lot of stuff going on and there's been [TS]

00:06:23   surprisingly little chatter about what's [TS]

00:06:27   forthcoming and I bet you if you were to [TS]

00:06:30   listen to past episodes I bet you I've [TS]

00:06:32   said that the last several years but man [TS]

00:06:35   sitting here now the way I remember the [TS]

00:06:37   chatter leading up to Iowa's ten Iowa's [TS]

00:06:41   at nine and eight and seven I feel like [TS]

00:06:43   we knew a lot more about what was going [TS]

00:06:45   into those releases than we do what's [TS]

00:06:48   going into iOS well what presumably will [TS]

00:06:52   be iOS 11 do you guys feel the same way [TS]

00:06:54   yeah I mean especially because I mean [TS]

00:06:57   first of all is a little bit weird like [TS]

00:06:58   we've heard a lot of kind of like weak [TS]

00:07:02   second tier rumors but very little of [TS]

00:07:05   much credibility or or of much certainty [TS]

00:07:08   and it seems like you know and and the [TS]

00:07:12   rumors are so spread out and relatively [TS]

00:07:16   diverse in their nature like it isn't [TS]

00:07:18   like all about one product or all about [TS]

00:07:20   one thing that it's looking like it's [TS]

00:07:23   going to be a pretty potentially pretty [TS]

00:07:25   big WDC but that nobody can really say [TS]

00:07:29   for sure exactly why which is kind of [TS]

00:07:31   interesting yeah it's kind of fun that [TS]

00:07:33   way like we have a whole bunch of things [TS]

00:07:34   that we've heard might happen or [TS]

00:07:35   supposed to or intend to do happen maybe [TS]

00:07:38   but but I don't but really nothing like [TS]

00:07:41   nothing that's concrete as a lot of [TS]

00:07:43   previous leaks and reports have been we [TS]

00:07:46   can make it up in volume like it right [TS]

00:07:48   there's no like big spearhead like the [TS]

00:07:50   one big thing everyone's looking for and [TS]

00:07:52   then the ancillary thinks it's just a [TS]

00:07:53   bunch of other things it kind of reminds [TS]

00:07:54   me well maybe this maybe I miss [TS]

00:07:57   remembering what was it iOS 8 the year [TS]

00:07:59   iOS 8 was announced they now saw all [TS]

00:08:01   those features that we thought would [TS]

00:08:02   never come to iOS and there was you know [TS]

00:08:04   no one of them was a you know the thing [TS]

00:08:08   that we all held up but just the fact [TS]

00:08:09   that there were so many things in iOS 8 [TS]

00:08:12   that I was so desperately needed and [TS]

00:08:14   they all came that it would gave you [TS]

00:08:15   gave you the satisfaction of sort of you [TS]

00:08:17   know being overwhelmed that with the [TS]

00:08:19   sheer number of things that I've always [TS]

00:08:21   doing to improve its product and we [TS]

00:08:23   would all like that right but the [TS]

00:08:25   problem with these big laundry lists [TS]

00:08:26   where there's no one thing that's just a [TS]

00:08:27   bunch of other stuff is it's not all [TS]

00:08:29   going to be there like we've heard [TS]

00:08:30   rumors of everything they can't possibly [TS]

00:08:32   all be there so there's going to be some [TS]

00:08:34   disappointments mixed in depending on [TS]

00:08:36   what what you care about the most mixed [TS]

00:08:38   in with the other stuff so let's go [TS]

00:08:40   through this somebody has done a little [TS]

00:08:43   bit of preparation in the show notes and [TS]

00:08:44   since I don't know who it is and it [TS]

00:08:46   couldn't possibly have been Marco that [TS]

00:08:47   my process of elimination means it must [TS]

00:08:49   have been John who shouldn't be doing [TS]

00:08:51   any prep [TS]

00:08:51   research ahem budget night you never [TS]

00:08:54   notice I fill this document before every [TS]

00:08:56   single show you think elves do that [TS]

00:08:58   yes but yeah yes I did I thought it was [TS]

00:09:02   Keebler elves when they were done baking [TS]

00:09:03   out but anyway you should now honor my [TS]

00:09:05   my organization here because what I have [TS]

00:09:08   written as the the heading for the [TS]

00:09:10   section that we're getting into here is [TS]

00:09:11   says WWC hopes in dreams because as [TS]

00:09:15   marco pointed out the rumors are all [TS]

00:09:17   kind of wishy-washy like they'll [TS]

00:09:19   probably do some iOS stuff man like all [TS]

00:09:21   right yeah okay I'm not I'm not that [TS]

00:09:25   interested in predictions because if [TS]

00:09:27   there's one big thing we be like are [TS]

00:09:29   they gonna introduce the hoverboards or [TS]

00:09:30   not it's been super heavily rumor let's [TS]

00:09:32   talk about the hoverboards right instead [TS]

00:09:35   I feel like it's what do what do we want [TS]

00:09:38   or what do we think Apple should do in [TS]

00:09:39   each of these areas and obviously we'll [TS]

00:09:41   talk about predictions in terms of [TS]

00:09:42   handicapping them how they go but I feel [TS]

00:09:44   ill-equipped this year to offer any kind [TS]

00:09:48   of prediction about what will be [TS]

00:09:50   announced at WWC but I feel reasonably [TS]

00:09:53   well equipped to talk about what I would [TS]

00:09:55   like to see and then secondarily what I [TS]

00:09:57   think Apple should do and then like I [TS]

00:09:59   said inevitably will say well could they [TS]

00:10:01   possibly do this all right so we're [TS]

00:10:03   going to start and we're going to go [TS]

00:10:05   through software and then we'll go [TS]

00:10:07   through hardware and then we'll go [TS]

00:10:09   through I don't know kind of [TS]

00:10:10   miscellaneous stuff [TS]

00:10:11   can I offer an opening statement well [TS]

00:10:14   since you seem eager to then please [TS]

00:10:16   proceed on the ones ready for the [TS]

00:10:18   incomparable no it's way too intimating [TS]

00:10:21   basically I slightly disagree with with [TS]

00:10:24   the hopes and dreams angle of this I [TS]

00:10:26   have I have kind of prepared my [TS]

00:10:28   expectations to be things that I would [TS]

00:10:31   like to happen but that I also think [TS]

00:10:32   will happen things that are realistic [TS]

00:10:34   that are plausible that fit within [TS]

00:10:36   Apple's you know recent hopes and dreams [TS]

00:10:38   fits within that I'm not saying like you [TS]

00:10:39   want a hoverboard or you want them to [TS]

00:10:41   roll the car out on the stage and do it [TS]

00:10:43   donut I mean like we're all gonna be [TS]

00:10:45   within the realm of reason here I think [TS]

00:10:47   that that was implied if that wasn't [TS]

00:10:49   clear right and I do think before we get [TS]

00:10:51   into specifics I would say the general [TS]

00:10:54   trend I expect this year you know what [TS]

00:10:57   I'm pretty sure will happen like [TS]

00:10:59   overarching themes the most powerful [TS]

00:11:01   messages that are being delivered [TS]

00:11:02   I think it's we're going to have a very [TS]

00:11:05   heavy [TS]

00:11:05   focus on Siri first and foremost and [TS]

00:11:08   it's going to take all sorts of [TS]

00:11:09   different forms which we'll get to down [TS]

00:11:10   the road but heavy focus on Siri also [TS]

00:11:13   have you focused on iPad productivity [TS]

00:11:15   and kind of integrated with that iCloud [TS]

00:11:18   Drive and then I think secondarily we'll [TS]

00:11:22   see things like you know the iOS you [TS]

00:11:24   know potential redesign [TS]

00:11:25   I think the Mac is going to be you know [TS]

00:11:28   kind of mid-range priority and then [TS]

00:11:30   relatively quiet years for watch OS and [TS]

00:11:35   TV OS but really heavy focus everywhere [TS]

00:11:38   on Siri in number one and then kind of [TS]

00:11:42   iPad productivity and iCloud Drive like [TS]

00:11:44   kind of number two so you're predicting [TS]

00:11:46   that but since there isn't just talking [TS]

00:11:49   about overall theme do you also hope for [TS]

00:11:52   that and secondarily do you think that's [TS]

00:11:55   what Apple should be focusing on well it [TS]

00:11:57   depends I mean you know this is not only [TS]

00:11:59   is this like you know here's all the [TS]

00:12:01   cool stuff that we've made this year but [TS]

00:12:03   you know like every Apple event and like [TS]

00:12:05   every Apple launch there is a certain [TS]

00:12:08   degree of marketing strategy that goes [TS]

00:12:09   into how they present things what they [TS]

00:12:11   even present at all you know what they [TS]

00:12:13   name things how things are structured [TS]

00:12:15   and I think Apple is facing a very very [TS]

00:12:19   strong competitive force right now on [TS]

00:12:22   the voice assistant front from both [TS]

00:12:24   Google and Amazon and maybe even [TS]

00:12:26   Microsoft that you know Siri has been [TS]

00:12:30   criticized for being behind most of it [TS]

00:12:32   rightfully so in various areas here also [TS]

00:12:35   you know Apple doesn't yet have a like a [TS]

00:12:38   Siri cylinder slash standalone speaker [TS]

00:12:41   thing and we'll get to that because [TS]

00:12:42   that's rumored to possibly be announced [TS]

00:12:44   this this week or next week I guess [TS]

00:12:46   so that might happen but anyway it just [TS]

00:12:48   seems like Siri is an area in which kind [TS]

00:12:51   of the the current trend of the text [TS]

00:12:54   fear that Apple operates in this is like [TS]

00:12:56   the hot thing to be working on is to [TS]

00:12:58   have really awesome voice assistant [TS]

00:12:59   stuff and Apple is widely perceived [TS]

00:13:02   mostly fairly as being behind in that [TS]

00:13:04   area so I expect this to be kind of like [TS]

00:13:06   the way last year Apple was perceived to [TS]

00:13:09   be behind in machine learning [TS]

00:13:12   AI big data kind of problems and so last [TS]

00:13:15   year you heard them say machine learning [TS]

00:13:18   like a billion times [TS]

00:13:19   named everything machine learning they [TS]

00:13:20   bragged about how awesome that machine [TS]

00:13:22   learning was it was a hugely driven home [TS]

00:13:24   talking point and it was everything was [TS]

00:13:26   kind of marketed around their version of [TS]

00:13:28   saying we are doing machine learning in [TS]

00:13:30   this awesome way and here's here's why [TS]

00:13:32   and here's how we're doing it and look [TS]

00:13:33   at it look at all the machine learning [TS]

00:13:34   we're doing similarly I that's what I [TS]

00:13:37   think Syria is going to be this year [TS]

00:13:38   it's going to be like the overall theme [TS]

00:13:40   of basically everything being called [TS]

00:13:42   Siri just like last year where [TS]

00:13:43   everything was cooperation learning you [TS]

00:13:45   know everything's going to be named Siri [TS]

00:13:47   even features that aren't necessarily [TS]

00:13:50   what we think of a Siri today so like [TS]

00:13:52   like maybe maybe spotlight we've renamed [TS]

00:13:55   to Siri maybe search in mail or messages [TS]

00:13:58   we renamed to Siri you know who knows [TS]

00:14:01   like there could be a lot of angles to [TS]

00:14:02   this I actually think it's possible that [TS]

00:14:04   homekit will be renamed to Siri so you [TS]

00:14:07   would just say things like this light [TS]

00:14:09   switch works with Siri you know like I [TS]

00:14:11   think that's a there's a big chance of [TS]

00:14:12   stuff like this happening that Siri is [TS]

00:14:15   what Apple is going to be beating us [TS]

00:14:16   over the head with this year this is [TS]

00:14:18   going to be like the talking point theme [TS]

00:14:20   of the year and they're going to be all [TS]

00:14:22   about how awesome Siri is how far [TS]

00:14:24   they've come and how incredibly more [TS]

00:14:26   advanced it is and everything else out [TS]

00:14:27   there I think they're going to be [TS]

00:14:29   throwing machine learning at us some [TS]

00:14:30   more I don't think machine learnings day [TS]

00:14:32   and the Sun is over like in addition [TS]

00:14:33   Siri like oh here's the thing about the [TS]

00:14:35   Siri focus that you know it's getting at [TS]

00:14:37   with like this is something you want to [TS]

00:14:39   see and do something you think they [TS]

00:14:40   should do well so by saying they're [TS]

00:14:42   behind and I agree or they're both [TS]

00:14:44   perceived to be behind it actually are a [TS]

00:14:46   little behind in a lot of these areas [TS]

00:14:47   it's something they should do if they're [TS]

00:14:50   actually concerned with keeping up with [TS]

00:14:52   the Joneses very many times in history [TS]

00:14:53   Apple seems totally unconcerned with [TS]

00:14:55   doing the same thing as other come as [TS]

00:14:57   its competitors are doing in this [TS]

00:14:59   situation because Apple was pretty early [TS]

00:15:02   out of the gate was Syria like it's not [TS]

00:15:03   like they just didn't touch this area at [TS]

00:15:04   all they're in it like they they're in [TS]

00:15:06   that market of like smart assistant [TS]

00:15:08   thing that you talk to and they were in [TS]

00:15:09   it very early and they have a brand and [TS]

00:15:11   so on and so forth so I think it's a [TS]

00:15:13   situation where they can't say Oh apples [TS]

00:15:15   not interested in that art market like [TS]

00:15:17   or will enter it when we think there's [TS]

00:15:18   something there already they're right [TS]

00:15:19   there just behind so if they can if they [TS]

00:15:23   can have a CFO 'kiss I think it is [TS]

00:15:25   something they should and if they can [TS]

00:15:27   means do they have the api's and new [TS]

00:15:30   you know software things to do do they [TS]

00:15:32   have Syrian a tube or you know like you [TS]

00:15:34   have to have something behind it you [TS]

00:15:36   can't just sort of float on oh we've [TS]

00:15:38   made Syria a little bit better here some [TS]

00:15:39   demos you have to have something you [TS]

00:15:40   have to new API is WWC new ways for apps [TS]

00:15:43   to integrate it a new product would be [TS]

00:15:45   awesome right and rebranding you know [TS]

00:15:47   I'm not sure they're going to ditch home [TS]

00:15:49   kit in that way and I don't think they [TS]

00:15:51   care enough about the Mac to rebrand any [TS]

00:15:53   part of it to both Siri I mean you know [TS]

00:15:55   Snapple Mac OS just got Syria recently [TS]

00:15:57   it's like be happy for a couple years [TS]

00:15:58   Mac OS will pay attention to you later [TS]

00:16:01   okay yeah I think it is I think it is [TS]

00:16:03   something they should do and I and I [TS]

00:16:07   think it's also something that I would [TS]

00:16:08   want to see them do because I like you [TS]

00:16:10   know we always except for Casey the the [TS]

00:16:13   hold out have cylinders in our houses [TS]

00:16:14   that we talked to and I still [TS]

00:16:17   occasionally talk to Siri on my phone [TS]

00:16:19   and other things like that and I would [TS]

00:16:21   love for Siri to get better and I would [TS]

00:16:22   love for there to be other products and [TS]

00:16:24   other api's that incorporate Siri like I [TS]

00:16:26   said last show I would like to talk to [TS]

00:16:27   overcast and have it play things for me [TS]

00:16:29   so that kind of Siri can integration [TS]

00:16:31   with that kind of intent would be great [TS]

00:16:32   as well [TS]

00:16:32   so that theme you know and again this is [TS]

00:16:35   not we haven't delved into the specifics [TS]

00:16:36   we're just saying broadly speaking iOS [TS]

00:16:38   Mac OS hardware software Siri machine [TS]

00:16:40   learning that type of thing it's maybe [TS]

00:16:45   not my biggest hope well you know it [TS]

00:16:47   hopes and dreams for it but it is [TS]

00:16:49   plausible it is the thing I think they [TS]

00:16:50   should do and I hope they do do it so we [TS]

00:16:53   will actually finish the series segment [TS]

00:16:55   now is that like I think how are you [TS]

00:16:57   getting away with this John usually [TS]

00:16:58   stops we don't follow the show because [TS]

00:17:01   he he framed it correctly as abroad it [TS]

00:17:03   cuts across all these things we're not [TS]

00:17:04   talking about just iOS or just Mac OS or [TS]

00:17:06   just hardware just new products it is an [TS]

00:17:09   overall theme he framed it well his [TS]

00:17:10   opening statement the overall theme of [TS]

00:17:12   the show if you come away you know and [TS]

00:17:13   it is kind of a prediction but I brought [TS]

00:17:16   it back to is something you hope for and [TS]

00:17:18   is it something that you think they [TS]

00:17:20   should do so since I sort of have the [TS]

00:17:23   mic now I will say that Siri does not do [TS]

00:17:27   much for me either way it doesn't [TS]

00:17:29   actively make me angry terribly often [TS]

00:17:31   although that certainly happens and it [TS]

00:17:33   doesn't actively help my day terribly [TS]

00:17:35   often although that also certainly [TS]

00:17:37   happens so right now I'm pretty [TS]

00:17:40   uninterested in all of this that being [TS]

00:17:42   said [TS]

00:17:43   if history tells me anything any time I [TS]

00:17:46   tell you that I am completely [TS]

00:17:47   underwhelmed and uninterested in in [TS]

00:17:49   something which may or may not also meet [TS]

00:17:51   be me being nonplussed about something [TS]

00:17:54   depending on who you ask I always end up [TS]

00:17:57   becoming the world's biggest fan for [TS]

00:17:59   example would you wait one moment while [TS]

00:18:01   I check the time on my beloved Apple [TS]

00:18:02   watch so we'll see what happens if they [TS]

00:18:05   do release a Syrian a canister but [TS]

00:18:08   sitting here now I just don't care [TS]

00:18:11   not a bit so let's talk about the Syrian [TS]

00:18:14   a canister because this is very heavily [TS]

00:18:16   rumored it it really does seem like not [TS]

00:18:20   only is this a real product but this [TS]

00:18:21   really might be announced next week that [TS]

00:18:23   that is what the current you know most [TS]

00:18:25   common rumors are saying so first of all [TS]

00:18:28   I think let's assume for the sake of [TS]

00:18:31   this discussion let's assume that the [TS]

00:18:33   that this thing is real I'm going to [TS]

00:18:35   call it the Siri speaker for now because [TS]

00:18:37   like I don't even know is going to be [TS]

00:18:38   cylindrical shape you know like if it's [TS]

00:18:41   going to have a screen a cylinder [TS]

00:18:42   doesn't only make a lot of sense so it [TS]

00:18:44   might not be cylindrical who knows so [TS]

00:18:46   I'll call it the Siri speaker although I [TS]

00:18:48   do think there's actually a small chance [TS]

00:18:50   but kind of a long shot that it might be [TS]

00:18:52   beats branded but I think probably I [TS]

00:18:54   think Siri is the stronger brand for [TS]

00:18:56   them and they're going to want to [TS]

00:18:57   they're going to want to you know use [TS]

00:18:58   that here or at least that's the one [TS]

00:19:00   that they want to drive more so first of [TS]

00:19:02   all the way I picture this project if [TS]

00:19:05   you think about if you think through [TS]

00:19:06   like how would you do things like [TS]

00:19:08   configure apps on it what kind of apps [TS]

00:19:11   would there even be on it how would you [TS]

00:19:12   set it up what would manage it the way [TS]

00:19:15   that the Amazon family of products does [TS]

00:19:17   this is there is an there is a leading [TS]

00:19:20   the tube named app on your phone it's [TS]

00:19:23   not that different from Apple's watch [TS]

00:19:25   app on the iPhone so it's like the [TS]

00:19:27   companion app for the hardware product [TS]

00:19:29   which means this Harvard product would [TS]

00:19:31   need to be paired with an iPhone that's [TS]

00:19:33   what I think Apple is going to do with [TS]

00:19:35   this product I suspect that it's going [TS]

00:19:36   to be like there's going to be a Serie A [TS]

00:19:38   p-- much like the Amazon lady named app [TS]

00:19:41   and this will be like the centralized [TS]

00:19:43   control panel and I do think this is [TS]

00:19:46   kind of going to be iOS in general if [TS]

00:19:49   you're going to be able to access the [TS]

00:19:50   Siri a p-- for other things as well like [TS]

00:19:52   that could be a centralized control [TS]

00:19:54   panel for homekit devices which might be [TS]

00:19:57   security devices any kind of [TS]

00:19:59   integrations apps etc I expect that to [TS]

00:20:03   also then be you know just like the [TS]

00:20:05   watch app is for the watch [TS]

00:20:06   that'll be how you manage apps and [TS]

00:20:08   configuration in advanced configuration [TS]

00:20:11   of the Siri speaker device because if [TS]

00:20:14   you if you have like a small you know [TS]

00:20:16   it's probably like a small OLED screen [TS]

00:20:18   on there it probably will be a touch [TS]

00:20:20   screen and everything but it's probably [TS]

00:20:21   going to be too small and not that great [TS]

00:20:23   for things like a full keyboard I don't [TS]

00:20:25   think it's going to be that size screen [TS]

00:20:27   probably gonna be more like small status [TS]

00:20:29   displays maybe for things like timers [TS]

00:20:31   and maybe room for a few buttons like a [TS]

00:20:33   few big touch targets on screen but not [TS]

00:20:35   like you know probably bigger than a [TS]

00:20:36   watch but smaller than a phone what [TS]

00:20:38   makes you think it'll have a screen at [TS]

00:20:39   all have you read more recent rumors [TS]

00:20:40   than I have no but but most of the [TS]

00:20:43   rumors have said it will have a screen [TS]

00:20:45   so I'm inclined to believe that it will [TS]

00:20:47   I also having used the Amazon cylinders [TS]

00:20:52   without screens for all this time I do [TS]

00:20:55   think it would be nicer with a screen [TS]

00:20:57   for some basic tasks there's still [TS]

00:21:00   there's still like you know the the the [TS]

00:21:03   primary interface will still be voice [TS]

00:21:05   but it's nice to have a screen as a [TS]

00:21:08   secondary information output device or [TS]

00:21:11   an ambient information output device so [TS]

00:21:13   for things like watching a timer [TS]

00:21:15   countdown or displaying the weather all [TS]

00:21:17   the time or things like that it's nice [TS]

00:21:19   to have a screen for things like that I [TS]

00:21:21   don't know if they're going to go [TS]

00:21:22   full-blown like video screen for video [TS]

00:21:25   calls the way Amazon has I don't know [TS]

00:21:28   about that because that that whole idea [TS]

00:21:30   kind of makes not that much sense to me [TS]

00:21:32   it's kind of ungraceful and I don't know [TS]

00:21:34   I'm not sure I see Apple even though [TS]

00:21:36   they already have like FaceTime and [TS]

00:21:38   everything I'm not sure I see them doing [TS]

00:21:39   the video call market with this device [TS]

00:21:41   because they already have in all their [TS]

00:21:43   other devices but anyway I do suspect [TS]

00:21:46   that they're going to have an iPhone [TS]

00:21:48   companion app named Siri that will [TS]

00:21:51   encompass all this stuff probably even [TS]

00:21:53   replace what is now called the home app [TS]

00:21:55   that abuse with the new home app now [TS]

00:21:57   it's called Siri and it comes all the [TS]

00:21:59   stuff and it lets you manage your Siri [TS]

00:22:00   cylinder I expect the series cylinder to [TS]

00:22:04   be primarily sold on privacy screen [TS]

00:22:10   itself and you know [TS]

00:22:11   it will be the first screened one of [TS]

00:22:13   these things to market probably or at [TS]

00:22:15   least it'll be close to Amazon's that's [TS]

00:22:16   coming at the end of this month [TS]

00:22:18   I also expect Apple to push sound [TS]

00:22:20   quality hard you know Apple still has [TS]

00:22:23   big foothold in music and they have a [TS]

00:22:24   lot of people there who care about music [TS]

00:22:25   and frankly it wouldn't be that hard to [TS]

00:22:28   sound better than the echo so I expect [TS]

00:22:30   them to push sound quality hard it is [TS]

00:22:32   totally possible to sound good in a [TS]

00:22:35   small enclosure and I know that because [TS]

00:22:38   I have a Sonos play:1 speaker right next [TS]

00:22:40   to my echo that I hardly ever use [TS]

00:22:41   anymore because it's so much less [TS]

00:22:43   convenient but the play one is almost [TS]

00:22:45   the same size as the echo and it sounds [TS]

00:22:48   way better it's not even close and so I [TS]

00:22:51   know Apple would have the expertise to [TS]

00:22:52   develop something really good sounding [TS]

00:22:54   in that size class if they want to and [TS]

00:22:56   they probably do want to that could be a [TS]

00:22:57   great selling point I would also suggest [TS]

00:23:00   that this is also Apple and this is also [TS]

00:23:04   Tim Cook's Apple so there is almost no [TS]

00:23:07   chance it's going to be just one of [TS]

00:23:08   these it's probably going to be like you [TS]

00:23:11   know at the Amazon one with the screen [TS]

00:23:13   is like 230 bucks something like that [TS]

00:23:16   I'm guessing the cheapest one you can [TS]

00:23:19   buy from Apple is 300 maybe even more [TS]

00:23:22   and that that's not going to be the one [TS]

00:23:24   anybody wants to buy that there's going [TS]

00:23:26   to be upsell models maybe they'll be [TS]

00:23:28   like different materials different [TS]

00:23:29   colors probably they're going to be [TS]

00:23:31   things like bigger or differently SPECT [TS]

00:23:33   speakers you know like and that's what [TS]

00:23:35   Sonos does they have like the small ones [TS]

00:23:36   medium big ones and the big ones are [TS]

00:23:38   really expensive [TS]

00:23:40   maybe they'll even go as far as to have [TS]

00:23:42   different storage tiers like the Apple [TS]

00:23:44   TV but that was kind of my comedy option [TS]

00:23:46   I don't actually believe they're going [TS]

00:23:47   to do that I hope they don't because the [TS]

00:23:49   actual storage tiers on the actual Apple [TS]

00:23:51   TV are a comedy option that make no [TS]

00:23:53   sense so I hope they've learned and I [TS]

00:23:56   hope they don't do that here but I'm [TS]

00:23:57   guessing like roughly 300 bucks for a [TS]

00:24:00   base model but the one you're going to [TS]

00:24:02   actually want is going to be more than [TS]

00:24:04   that for some premium reason probably [TS]

00:24:06   better speakers or something like that [TS]

00:24:09   and then otherwise I think you know this [TS]

00:24:12   you know if it if it runs it would make [TS]

00:24:15   sense for to run apps and the way they [TS]

00:24:17   would probably do that is very similar [TS]

00:24:18   to how the watch is doing it so the iOS [TS]

00:24:21   app would be the post slash container [TS]

00:24:25   and it would have a special extension [TS]

00:24:26   that runs on the Siri speaker and that [TS]

00:24:29   the companion app would manage that [TS]

00:24:31   relationship for you if you wanted to [TS]

00:24:32   install or delete them but that it would [TS]

00:24:35   be an iOS extension that is not running [TS]

00:24:37   on the phone it's running on the speaker [TS]

00:24:38   but it's managed by the parent app on [TS]

00:24:41   the phone and by the companion app and [TS]

00:24:43   then my other my only other kind of long [TS]

00:24:47   shot on this obviously going to heavily [TS]

00:24:49   push Apple music and music gonna be is [TS]

00:24:51   gonna be I think one of the biggest [TS]

00:24:52   selling points of this thing I think [TS]

00:24:54   long shot number two besides the beats [TS]

00:24:56   brand is that they might even pull a [TS]

00:25:00   Sonos and attack them head-on and do [TS]

00:25:03   multi-room audio from day one which [TS]

00:25:05   currently Amazon doesn't do it all yet I [TS]

00:25:09   know Google announced they were going to [TS]

00:25:11   but have they actually shipped that yet [TS]

00:25:12   I don't have the famoust idea John [TS]

00:25:14   you're that you're in charge of Google [TS]

00:25:15   home on this show I have one of them I [TS]

00:25:17   would I know [TS]

00:25:18   I'll get a second one on the answered a [TS]

00:25:19   question all right but so yeah III think [TS]

00:25:21   it would be really cool if Apple did [TS]

00:25:24   Sonos multi-room audio now that I've had [TS]

00:25:27   a Sonu system for a couple of years I do [TS]

00:25:29   really enjoy that like it's really nice [TS]

00:25:31   to have speakers in multiple rooms of [TS]

00:25:33   your house so like when you're doing [TS]

00:25:35   things around the house you can have the [TS]

00:25:37   same music playing and all them it's [TS]

00:25:38   really nice and the main reason I don't [TS]

00:25:40   use that anymore is because it's so much [TS]

00:25:42   more convenient to have everything voice [TS]

00:25:43   controlled so if Apple can combine those [TS]

00:25:46   things Amazon I'm kind of surprised they [TS]

00:25:48   haven't but they haven't so if Apple can [TS]

00:25:50   be the first one to combine those things [TS]

00:25:51   and if they're going to have a heavy [TS]

00:25:53   music focus and if they're going to have [TS]

00:25:55   good speakers in these things to begin [TS]

00:25:57   with that could be a really strong [TS]

00:25:59   competitive advantage because they're [TS]

00:26:01   probably not going to be as strong with [TS]

00:26:02   like the voice accuracy or the [TS]

00:26:04   reliability or the speed or the [TS]

00:26:06   third-party integrations so they can try [TS]

00:26:09   to get advantages in other areas where [TS]

00:26:10   Apple is strong so things like physical [TS]

00:26:13   design the UI the thing is sound quality [TS]

00:26:17   multi-room audio you know major music [TS]

00:26:18   integration that's where I expect Apple [TS]

00:26:20   to go with this you have such a specific [TS]

00:26:23   vision of this entire ecosystem of [TS]

00:26:25   products and as you think you have [TS]

00:26:26   inside information that we don't have I [TS]

00:26:28   think I do a lot of specifics that's a [TS]

00:26:31   lot of specific no but I don't wait what [TS]

00:26:33   I basically did was I started writing [TS]

00:26:35   out the this note of like what I expect [TS]

00:26:37   this thing might be [TS]

00:26:39   and I started thinking about okay well [TS]

00:26:40   it does it run apps you know if it runs [TS]

00:26:42   apps have word is that where the apps [TS]

00:26:44   come from and it was it once you're [TS]

00:26:46   thinking through like oh how how might [TS]

00:26:48   they do this yeah now that every every [TS]

00:26:50   one of those things sounds like yep [TS]

00:26:51   that's exactly the way they would do it [TS]

00:26:53   if they were doing that but what I have [TS]

00:26:54   trouble with is you just listed up if [TS]

00:26:56   they were to catch up with everybody on [TS]

00:26:58   all fronts at once this is how they do [TS]

00:26:59   it and I agree like I don't know I'm [TS]

00:27:02   pessimistic that they are going to do [TS]

00:27:04   that like and and what I'm thinking of [TS]

00:27:07   as all things you described it's like [TS]

00:27:08   okay you're not going to get all this [TS]

00:27:10   stuff with the first product it's going [TS]

00:27:12   to concentrate on one area or another so [TS]

00:27:14   for example one angle could be again if [TS]

00:27:16   this thing is even announced WWC [TS]

00:27:17   multi-room audio no screen series [TS]

00:27:20   speaker right that alone seems like a [TS]

00:27:24   version of one product from Apple like [TS]

00:27:25   none of the other things you mentioned [TS]

00:27:26   are there there's no screen there's no [TS]

00:27:27   apps there's no you know home kit [TS]

00:27:30   central home hub thing there's no you [TS]

00:27:32   know it's just is just Siri speaker you [TS]

00:27:34   can talk to it and it's multi-room audio [TS]

00:27:36   and that's it and they're expensive in [TS]

00:27:38   this two of them right I'm on board with [TS]

00:27:40   that or it could be a home hub thing but [TS]

00:27:42   then no multi-room audio but just like [TS]

00:27:44   one good speaker and the thing or it [TS]

00:27:46   could be a little app platform thing [TS]

00:27:48   that isn't a speaker but that you know [TS]

00:27:49   it's like I have trouble making myself [TS]

00:27:52   believe that today's Apple is going to [TS]

00:27:54   come out of the gate with something so [TS]

00:27:55   comprehensive well if they did like I [TS]

00:27:58   agree with you that if they if they did [TS]

00:27:59   attack on all those fronts that's [TS]

00:28:01   probably how they would attack on every [TS]

00:28:02   single one of those fronts because there [TS]

00:28:03   is based on you know something they've [TS]

00:28:05   done before technology they already have [TS]

00:28:07   things they're already good at and [TS]

00:28:09   enhancements to things that that you [TS]

00:28:11   know obviously that were obviously [TS]

00:28:12   assuming enhancements to Siri to go [TS]

00:28:13   along with this to make it more capable [TS]

00:28:15   just in general right well but what I'm [TS]

00:28:17   describing is a a smaller scale than the [TS]

00:28:21   first version of the Apple watch and [TS]

00:28:23   it's way easier to make because this big [TS]

00:28:25   chunky thing the Apple watch was so [TS]

00:28:27   incredibly hyped and rumored that it was [TS]

00:28:29   like them you know and it just the Apple [TS]

00:28:32   watch came out and it did do all those [TS]

00:28:34   things all at once but the lead up to it [TS]

00:28:36   matched that like it was not I mean they [TS]

00:28:39   were they they built that whole [TS]

00:28:40   temporary thing and had this giant [TS]

00:28:42   special event for it and we all knew it [TS]

00:28:44   was coming it was just like and what is [TS]

00:28:46   it going to be is it going to be a [TS]

00:28:47   holographic wrist thing that floats [TS]

00:28:48   under like it was just it was added [TS]

00:28:50   control right and they did do a really [TS]

00:28:52   good [TS]

00:28:52   job on it and you know they figured out [TS]

00:28:53   the software eventually - but the series [TS]

00:28:56   stuff is like I wonder if Apple whatever [TS]

00:28:58   have a tube thing man maybe oh here [TS]

00:29:00   might be WABC maybe have screen maybe [TS]

00:29:02   won't probably speaker cool like it's [TS]

00:29:04   getting back to like the scope of like [TS]

00:29:06   Apple can make a really good Bluetooth [TS]

00:29:07   speaker as I think I said a couple of [TS]

00:29:09   shows ago it's like yeah they could if [TS]

00:29:11   they felt like it right and you're like [TS]

00:29:13   no Apple can dominate this home market [TS]

00:29:15   by doing everything super awesome way [TS]

00:29:16   and just charging us twice as much well [TS]

00:29:18   no I didn't say that I didn't say that [TS]

00:29:20   because there are going to be major [TS]

00:29:22   areas of the that Apple's not gonna be [TS]

00:29:23   competitive on because it's all based on [TS]

00:29:25   Siri and there are major areas this [TS]

00:29:27   serious and competitive on things like [TS]

00:29:29   speed reliability and certain levels of [TS]

00:29:31   intelligence Wow again like the [TS]

00:29:33   underlying premise is that the this [TS]

00:29:35   comes along with a new and improved [TS]

00:29:37   version of Siri like the Siri and this [TS]

00:29:39   tube is better than Siri in all of the [TS]

00:29:41   places it's interesting question of [TS]

00:29:42   whether say they even do that oh I don't [TS]

00:29:44   believe that at all I think it's gonna [TS]

00:29:45   be exactly the same Siri you think so I [TS]

00:29:47   mean it's the very least I would hope [TS]

00:29:48   that it would hear me better than the [TS]

00:29:50   microphones in a watch or in the phone [TS]

00:29:52   just because they've got more room for [TS]

00:29:53   more microphones right well it might but [TS]

00:29:54   honestly I don't have much problem with [TS]

00:29:57   Siri hearing me properly like the words [TS]

00:29:59   that I say are usually transcribed very [TS]

00:30:01   accurately it's what they do afterwards [TS]

00:30:03   that's that's usually probably yeah I [TS]

00:30:06   have some trouble with activations but [TS]

00:30:07   yeah but like on the Siri tube speaker [TS]

00:30:11   screen whatever thing I'm currently [TS]

00:30:14   filing this in the category of a thing [TS]

00:30:18   that I totally believe Apple has worked [TS]

00:30:20   on and may still be working on but that [TS]

00:30:22   I would not shock me if there was no [TS]

00:30:26   dedicated Siri related hardware announce [TS]

00:30:29   at WWDC so I'm not I'm not pinning my [TS]

00:30:32   hopes on this being at WWDC even if it's [TS]

00:30:35   a thing they're working on even if they [TS]

00:30:36   are going to ship it later I don't know [TS]

00:30:38   like just think of the Apple TV that [TS]

00:30:41   Miss WWC remember when that happened [TS]

00:30:43   like the new Apple TV and they were [TS]

00:30:44   gonna have it for everybody and it just [TS]

00:30:45   it didn't quite make it right so this [TS]

00:30:47   I'm putting in that this in that bin [TS]

00:30:48   right now which would be a shame but [TS]

00:30:50   looking down the list of the rest of the [TS]

00:30:51   things I still feel like they would have [TS]

00:30:53   enough stuff to make a good keynote [TS]

00:30:54   without any serious stuff and if they [TS]

00:30:57   did have it like would they save it for [TS]

00:31:00   the end is that is that the biggest [TS]

00:31:01   announcement that they save towards the [TS]

00:31:03   you know the end slot where the good [TS]

00:31:04   stuff comes like they obviously like [TS]

00:31:06   lead with like watch OS and Mac OS [TS]

00:31:08   updates then build up to the stuff that [TS]

00:31:09   we really care about right and this is [TS]

00:31:11   the last thing I you know I guess we'll [TS]

00:31:14   find out but anyway that's how I feel [TS]

00:31:15   about this eerie thing in terms of [TS]

00:31:17   predictions that durable that it will be [TS]

00:31:19   more constrained than all the things [TS]

00:31:21   that Marco listed and that I would not [TS]

00:31:23   be shocked if it didn't appear and I'm [TS]

00:31:24   not gonna and I wouldn't and honestly if [TS]

00:31:26   everything else comes out you know [TS]

00:31:28   everything else has reasonably good [TS]

00:31:30   announcements of fulfilling some of my [TS]

00:31:31   hopes and dreams I'll be okay with that [TS]

00:31:34   we are sponsored this week by jet go to [TS]

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00:31:46   a great selection they have fast and [TS]

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00:31:50   for everyday essentials the prices are [TS]

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00:31:55   as you shop so the more you add to your [TS]

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00:32:11   other fees but you know you don't have [TS]

00:32:12   to be a certain you know premium member [TS]

00:32:14   or anything to get that fast free [TS]

00:32:16   shipping you get all the benefits [TS]

00:32:17   without paying any extra price and they [TS]

00:32:20   have 24/7 customer service with the jet [TS]

00:32:23   head team in Salt Lake City [TS]

00:32:25   you can shop from your couch it is very [TS]

00:32:27   very stress-free and convenient and [TS]

00:32:29   again they have a great selection I so I [TS]

00:32:31   tried this out and and I gotta say I was [TS]

00:32:33   very very impressed I thought they would [TS]

00:32:36   you know maybe not have some really [TS]

00:32:38   obscure stuff I was looking for you know [TS]

00:32:40   things like audio gear and stuff they [TS]

00:32:42   had everything I searched for I was [TS]

00:32:45   blown away and again their prices are [TS]

00:32:47   extremely competitive the shipping was [TS]

00:32:49   super fast and it's really nice again [TS]

00:32:52   there's no annual membership fee to get [TS]

00:32:54   the best benefits they have very [TS]

00:32:56   competitive prices very good ways to [TS]

00:32:58   save money you can even do things like [TS]

00:32:59   micro optimize the price you can do [TS]

00:33:01   things like if you're positive you're [TS]

00:33:03   not going to return something you can [TS]

00:33:04   opt out of the return policy and save a [TS]

00:33:07   bit of money there too it's really cool [TS]

00:33:09   there's a ton of cool options the more [TS]

00:33:10   you buy the more you can save there's [TS]

00:33:12   bulk discounts it's pretty great so once [TS]

00:33:15   again go to jet comm and they have cool [TS]

00:33:18   offer here for [TS]

00:33:20   percent off your first two orders over [TS]

00:33:22   $35 you can use code ATP at checkout [TS]

00:33:26   once again that's a jet comm terms and [TS]

00:33:28   conditions apply sea jet comm for [TS]

00:33:30   details [TS]

00:33:31   once again 20% off your first two orders [TS]

00:33:34   over $35 with code ATP at checkout terms [TS]

00:33:38   and conditions do apply sea jet comm for [TS]

00:33:40   details thank you very much to Jett for [TS]

00:33:42   sponsoring our show all right so I'm [TS]

00:33:47   sorry boss what are we doing LS iOS [TS]

00:33:50   because we're going for the biggest I [TS]

00:33:51   feel like now please mark I wanted to go [TS]

00:33:53   right for the desert and talk about the [TS]

00:33:54   Siri which is like you know the new [TS]

00:33:56   hardware new product category like the [TS]

00:33:58   most probably the most exciting thing [TS]

00:33:59   that could be announced at WWC you know [TS]

00:34:03   inducing a new product category that [TS]

00:34:04   Apple was in him before thing this thing [TS]

00:34:06   that rarely happens we did that one and [TS]

00:34:07   I feel like iOS is the next biggest [TS]

00:34:10   possible announcement because there's a [TS]

00:34:12   lot of a lot of rumors and ideas around [TS]

00:34:16   iOS not just improving its capabilities [TS]

00:34:20   improving capabilities of the iPad and [TS]

00:34:22   you know adding features that people [TS]

00:34:23   have wanted and like getting back on the [TS]

00:34:26   bandwagon of advancing iOS but also the [TS]

00:34:30   possibility that the major foundational [TS]

00:34:33   interface paradigms in iOS could be [TS]

00:34:36   rethought like particularly about how [TS]

00:34:37   how application is deal with files and [TS]

00:34:40   drag and drop which dragon drop is like [TS]

00:34:43   not at all and files is in in in a way [TS]

00:34:47   that is not like the old way where there [TS]

00:34:49   was no access to the file system but is [TS]

00:34:50   kind of this awkward middle ground so [TS]

00:34:52   there's a lot of rumors surrounding that [TS]

00:34:54   and again when we say file system we [TS]

00:34:56   don't mean like the literal file system [TS]

00:34:58   which is a PFS now yay but like in terms [TS]

00:35:01   of file management there's a lot of [TS]

00:35:02   rumors about that and any and all of [TS]

00:35:05   those things are significant for iOS and [TS]

00:35:08   most of it I feel like is focused on [TS]

00:35:10   sort of the high end of iOS the devices [TS]

00:35:12   that are big and fast and have a lot of [TS]

00:35:14   memory not so much on your phones like [TS]

00:35:18   what is this going to do about your [TS]

00:35:19   phones more about like hey I've got this [TS]

00:35:21   big powerful 12.5 inch iPad pro with the [TS]

00:35:25   stylus but multitasking hasn't changed [TS]

00:35:28   much in many years and there's no [TS]

00:35:30   drag-and-drop and dealing with files is [TS]

00:35:32   still kind of a pain [TS]

00:35:34   and for many years that have been [TS]

00:35:35   reversed about that being rejiggered but [TS]

00:35:38   this certainly seems like the year when [TS]

00:35:40   the announcement kind of like ios8 where [TS]

00:35:42   the announcements for iOS will be things [TS]

00:35:45   that have been a long time coming that [TS]

00:35:46   are super impressive that people look at [TS]

00:35:48   and say eh this is going to change how I [TS]

00:35:50   use my iOS device in a positive way and [TS]

00:35:52   developers are gonna say be I can't wait [TS]

00:35:54   to add support for that from my [TS]

00:35:55   application which is a perfect fit for [TS]

00:35:57   WWC iOS is the glory OS and they can [TS]

00:36:00   start adding it for lack of a better [TS]

00:36:02   word Pro features to iOS the crowd [TS]

00:36:05   beloved developers were level useable of [TS]

00:36:07   it yeah I don't know what to make of all [TS]

00:36:09   that I was asked by a friend of the show [TS]

00:36:12   Stephen Hackett to do a piece for his [TS]

00:36:15   members newsletter and so I wrote a [TS]

00:36:17   piece that I'll eventually post on my [TS]

00:36:19   website but probably not for a few weeks [TS]

00:36:21   um about why I think that the iOS the [TS]

00:36:24   iOS gee-gees the iPad is not for me [TS]

00:36:27   anymore and since I just made this [TS]

00:36:30   public declaration that the iPad is not [TS]

00:36:32   for me anymore [TS]

00:36:33   I expect that whatever is done at WDC [TS]

00:36:37   this year will make me go crawling [TS]

00:36:39   directly back to the iPad and tell [TS]

00:36:41   everyone about how I never doubted the [TS]

00:36:43   iPad and the iPad has always been the [TS]

00:36:45   thing for me but I think it's obvious [TS]

00:36:47   that this is going to be a year that's [TS]

00:36:49   heavy on iPad I think I think it's [TS]

00:36:52   possible that Federico vtg smile may not [TS]

00:36:54   fit through the doors on the way out of [TS]

00:36:56   the keynote which to be a truth be told [TS]

00:36:59   is a good thing um I I don't dislike the [TS]

00:37:03   iPad I just feel like I'm neutered or [TS]

00:37:05   not neutered maybe but handcuffed is [TS]

00:37:07   better word for it handcuffed by it and [TS]

00:37:10   and so if if a lot of the pain points [TS]

00:37:14   that I have when using the iPad went [TS]

00:37:19   away that would be really great but to [TS]

00:37:21   come back to the a sensible point of all [TS]

00:37:23   this which is hopes and dreams [TS]

00:37:24   I do hope and dream for a better Siri a [TS]

00:37:28   P I I think it would be somewhat useful [TS]

00:37:30   for what I do at my day job but I think [TS]

00:37:34   it would be super useful for things like [TS]

00:37:36   overcast there's been many times that [TS]

00:37:38   I've wanted to say you know hey dingus [TS]

00:37:40   play [TS]

00:37:41   I don't know fatal error in in overcast [TS]

00:37:44   or something like that or you know hey [TS]

00:37:46   dingus played Dubai [TS]

00:37:47   Friday and overcast and and having the [TS]

00:37:49   ability to do that would be really [TS]

00:37:50   really awesome I'm a little disappointed [TS]

00:37:55   that Swift is open source in that as far [TS]

00:38:01   as I know a lot of the things that I [TS]

00:38:02   want from Swift aren't happening because [TS]

00:38:05   if they were happening I would know them [TS]

00:38:07   because open source and so I'm hopeful [TS]

00:38:10   that maybe some stuff has been happening [TS]

00:38:12   behind the scenes that is Swift specific [TS]

00:38:14   I've been yearning for reflection I've [TS]

00:38:17   been yearning for async/await [TS]

00:38:19   there's a bunch of other things that [TS]

00:38:21   I've wanted that I can't think of off [TS]

00:38:22   top my head but I every indication is [TS]

00:38:25   that I'm not getting any of those things [TS]

00:38:26   because if I was I would know about it [TS]

00:38:28   because open source however that being [TS]

00:38:30   said you know any improvements tax code [TS]

00:38:32   to make writing Swift a little better to [TS]

00:38:36   make using Swift a little better would [TS]

00:38:38   be great and I think I know that's [TS]

00:38:41   tangentially related to iOS but that [TS]

00:38:43   varies what are you tangentially I would [TS]

00:38:47   say you know I rang you in but I will [TS]

00:38:50   allow you to make the bold prediction [TS]

00:38:51   that there will be a new version of [TS]

00:38:52   Xcode that's at WWDC no no but I mean I [TS]

00:38:55   want to see like as an example they [TS]

00:38:59   added I forget the official term for the [TS]

00:39:01   feature but like the memory graph [TS]

00:39:02   visualizer and they added you know the [TS]

00:39:05   reveal clone which is also excellent and [TS]

00:39:08   those are great but that's that's that [TS]

00:39:10   sort of a change is not what I'm looking [TS]

00:39:12   for what I'm looking for is something [TS]

00:39:14   that makes yeah writing swift better and [TS]

00:39:18   easier like being able to refactor Swift [TS]

00:39:21   code like the fact that we can't do that [TS]

00:39:22   is kind of preposterous now and I've [TS]

00:39:26   been talking to some people at work [TS]

00:39:27   about Kotlin about some of these other [TS]

00:39:30   languages about the way dotnet matured [TS]

00:39:32   and if you look at the differences in [TS]

00:39:34   dotnet over the same stretch of time as [TS]

00:39:37   Swift has had I feel like c-sharp but [TS]

00:39:40   maybe I should use c-sharp rather than [TS]

00:39:41   that c-sharp moved way way quicker and I [TS]

00:39:46   wish that Swift could pick up the pace a [TS]

00:39:48   little bit which is funny because maybe [TS]

00:39:50   the only way for them to pick up the [TS]

00:39:51   pace a little bit might be to take away [TS]

00:39:53   some of the community involvement and [TS]

00:39:55   make it more dictatorial rather than [TS]

00:39:59   democratic but anyway I digress [TS]

00:40:01   I'm driving it I guess can go faster you [TS]

00:40:02   really think c-sharp moved faster like [TS]

00:40:04   did it did it have backwards [TS]

00:40:06   incompatible syntax changes as rapidly [TS]

00:40:08   as Swift did because I feel like that [TS]

00:40:09   was unprecedented no I mean generally it [TS]

00:40:13   was additive any time that the c-sharp [TS]

00:40:15   maybe it wasn't always but generally my [TS]

00:40:17   recollection is was always additive and [TS]

00:40:18   in in you know there were always [TS]

00:40:21   humongous features and pretty much every [TS]

00:40:22   version like I don't remember the exact [TS]

00:40:24   history offhand but one one didn't have [TS]

00:40:26   generics then - Oh had generics that's [TS]

00:40:28   when the language actually got usable I [TS]

00:40:30   forget what 300 brought but then you had [TS]

00:40:32   link and then you had async/await and so [TS]

00:40:36   there's problems you're up to buy that [TS]

00:40:38   Swift is in the three to four stage now [TS]

00:40:40   right so I'm talking in terms of [TS]

00:40:42   equivalent calendar time though and [TS]

00:40:43   maybe I'm misremembering maybe I don't [TS]

00:40:45   get the check those calendar days [TS]

00:40:46   because I think actually Swift has been [TS]

00:40:47   moving pretty quickly and I think it [TS]

00:40:48   took a long time for c-sharp it [TS]

00:40:49   check-check the timelines I feel like [TS]

00:40:52   even sharp moved at a similar rate but [TS]

00:40:54   didn't break syntax as much and went for [TS]

00:40:58   longer until it got certainly before [TS]

00:41:00   until it got a single weight and maybe [TS]

00:41:01   even before it got linked yeah I don't [TS]

00:41:04   remember off the top of my head when [TS]

00:41:06   link came out but it was it is always [TS]

00:41:10   been - my eyes moving quicker than then [TS]

00:41:15   then Swift so link was released as a [TS]

00:41:18   major part of dotnet 3507 so the [TS]

00:41:22   2000-2001 ish was dotnet 1 1 2006 years [TS]

00:41:26   so it doesn't been out for six years [TS]

00:41:27   yeah that's true that's fair point it [TS]

00:41:30   makes it seem it seems more compressed [TS]

00:41:32   cos in the past and maybe IDs Shores [TS]

00:41:34   coming along better but yeah I think [TS]

00:41:35   truth yeah so I expect obviously there'd [TS]

00:41:39   be new version Xcode and you know some [TS]

00:41:41   of those things that you talked about [TS]

00:41:42   feel like they should be coming around [TS]

00:41:44   this time as as Apple turns the the [TS]

00:41:47   giant ship that is its dev tools [TS]

00:41:49   division slowly but surely over a [TS]

00:41:50   multi-year period entirely towards Swift [TS]

00:41:52   still no ABI compatibility like we're [TS]

00:41:55   still waiting on that limits as many [TS]

00:41:57   people plan out every time rings up is [TS]

00:41:58   more of a concern for Apple than it is [TS]

00:42:00   for developers people say who don't mind [TS]

00:42:01   shipping slightly larger than normal [TS]

00:42:03   applications which I guess is everybody [TS]

00:42:04   judging by the App Store but things like [TS]

00:42:07   refactoring and other features that like [TS]

00:42:10   aren't available for Swift but have been [TS]

00:42:13   available in some limited form for [TS]

00:42:14   see or seem like they'll be reasonably [TS]

00:42:18   easy to do given that the entire ID is [TS]

00:42:21   built on the same compiler platform as [TS]

00:42:22   the language and so on and so forth that [TS]

00:42:24   uh yeah I expect people to be happy with [TS]

00:42:27   with the features they get there but [TS]

00:42:29   honestly it seems to me from looking at [TS]

00:42:32   those public mailing lists and [TS]

00:42:33   everything that there is still a pretty [TS]

00:42:36   big emphasis on the basics you know [TS]

00:42:39   compile quickly correctly without [TS]

00:42:42   crashing you know that Depa [TS]

00:42:45   that maybe they're still not quite in a [TS]

00:42:47   position to start giving you all the [TS]

00:42:49   frills that you want and that's probably [TS]

00:42:50   the best place for them to be [TS]

00:42:51   concentrating you out there they're [TS]

00:42:53   getting more serious about source [TS]

00:42:54   compatibility now and every developer [TS]

00:42:56   there wants their thing to compile in a [TS]

00:42:58   sane amount of time and they don't want [TS]

00:42:59   the compiler to crash and they don't [TS]

00:43:00   want there to be bugs and we're kind [TS]

00:43:04   think we're coming out of that phase or [TS]

00:43:05   Swift slowly but surely and maybe [TS]

00:43:07   they'll have some things to brag about [TS]

00:43:08   like look I don't know they usually [TS]

00:43:09   don't worry about how many times EXO [TS]

00:43:10   crashes but they will brag about compile [TS]

00:43:12   times hey look you enable whole module [TS]

00:43:14   optimisation and pile this big project [TS]

00:43:16   and it was garbage in the past version [TS]

00:43:18   but the new WWC beta version is like 10 [TS]

00:43:20   times faster and everybody cheers so I [TS]

00:43:22   was a crowd pleaser WotC compile times [TS]

00:43:24   mm-hmm but in terms of like iOS directly [TS]

00:43:29   shrug I don't know and like I'm there's [TS]

00:43:32   there's nothing I can think of that I [TS]

00:43:34   can point to that that really grinds my [TS]

00:43:37   gears on a daily basis and and I think [TS]

00:43:40   that's largely because I don't use the [TS]

00:43:41   iPad very much at all so you think so [TS]

00:43:45   you know if you're not an iPad user or [TS]

00:43:46   we're setting aside the iPad where we [TS]

00:43:48   think Apple have all needs to do stuff [TS]

00:43:49   and they will do stuff I think that if [TS]

00:43:52   they're rethinking how applications deal [TS]

00:43:55   with and share their data not the [TS]

00:43:58   drag-and-drop business because like on a [TS]

00:44:00   phone you know you still just got one [TS]

00:44:01   app on the screen at the same time [TS]

00:44:02   probably all the windows what the hell [TS]

00:44:03   will do with the giant phone but if they [TS]

00:44:07   change how apps deal with data that [TS]

00:44:11   could surface itself on the phone I'm [TS]

00:44:12   trying to think if that would that would [TS]

00:44:13   change something about how how we use [TS]

00:44:16   the phone right like because that [TS]

00:44:19   wouldn't be a paradigm that only changes [TS]

00:44:21   on the iPad it would change everywhere [TS]

00:44:22   across iOS and if they have a good idea [TS]

00:44:24   about how to do it that would change the [TS]

00:44:26   way we all use our phones [TS]

00:44:28   in some small way imagine maybe even God [TS]

00:44:31   I don't know like I was trying to think [TS]

00:44:32   of like what we do with our phones we [TS]

00:44:33   deal with photos a lot but we don't deal [TS]

00:44:34   with them as files we deal with them as [TS]

00:44:36   these abstract things so yeah I'm also [TS]

00:44:39   struggling to think of any specific [TS]

00:44:42   thing that they desperately need to do [TS]

00:44:44   on the phone specifically to iOS but I'm [TS]

00:44:46   sure there will be something and you [TS]

00:44:48   know obviously you know you need new [TS]

00:44:50   small features performance improvements [TS]

00:44:52   you know bug fixes all sorts of stuff [TS]

00:44:54   like that but burn we're not really [TS]

00:44:56   counting those but dpi I feel like this [TS]

00:44:57   will be this will be a pro year for iOS [TS]

00:45:01   if all the rumors do be believed and it [TS]

00:45:03   should be because that's that's where [TS]

00:45:06   iOS needs the most tension I mean I [TS]

00:45:08   would say that you know what with all [TS]

00:45:11   the rumblings we've heard about the iPad [TS]

00:45:14   productivity enhancements do sound very [TS]

00:45:16   plausible I think a lot of it could come [TS]

00:45:18   to the phone I mean you know some of the [TS]

00:45:19   stuff like side-by-side multitasking [TS]

00:45:21   obviously won't be coming from the phone [TS]

00:45:23   in all likelihood but they could do drag [TS]

00:45:26   and drop [TS]

00:45:26   you know what if they did some kind of [TS]

00:45:28   thing you know this is just totally [TS]

00:45:29   random but you're sort of right now like [TS]

00:45:31   what if they did some kind of thing [TS]

00:45:32   where if you like force pressed on a [TS]

00:45:35   selected piece of content say then you [TS]

00:45:39   got something kind of like what expose [TS]

00:45:41   and the Mac is where you were like it [TS]

00:45:44   kind of zooms out to like a grid of the [TS]

00:45:46   last couple of most recently used apps [TS]

00:45:48   and you can drop it on to one of them [TS]

00:45:50   and then that pops in you could drop on [TS]

00:45:51   to a specific part of the app but there [TS]

00:45:53   there are ways to do it on the phone I'm [TS]

00:45:56   not saying they will do this or this [TS]

00:45:57   this may even be a terrible idea I just [TS]

00:45:59   thought of it now so I haven't thought [TS]

00:46:01   this through [TS]

00:46:01   so it could be terrible but they could [TS]

00:46:04   totally do drag and drop [TS]

00:46:06   and in inter app communication and data [TS]

00:46:11   sharing without actually having side by [TS]

00:46:13   side multitasking where the screen is [TS]

00:46:15   too small like on the iPhone so I [TS]

00:46:18   wouldn't rule it out but I would just [TS]

00:46:20   say like in general I'm very excited to [TS]

00:46:21   see if the rumors are to be believed [TS]

00:46:24   here the the elevation of iCloud drive [TS]

00:46:28   probably into like the desktop only the [TS]

00:46:32   Documents folder for the I for iOS and [TS]

00:46:36   that is a really I I think since they [TS]

00:46:40   did since the dawn of iOS [TS]

00:46:42   there has been this constant fight with [TS]

00:46:45   an apple promptly from what we've heard [TS]

00:46:48   spearheaded by Steve Jobs personally and [TS]

00:46:51   possibly even forestall and kind of that [TS]

00:46:53   line of thought of trying to get rid of [TS]

00:46:56   having to deal with files they have [TS]

00:46:59   worked so hard to get rid of files [TS]

00:47:02   because files are the old way of doing [TS]

00:47:04   things and people find them confusing [TS]

00:47:06   them whatever else whatever else they [TS]

00:47:07   have files have problems just like [TS]

00:47:08   everything else but I think what we [TS]

00:47:10   found over the years is that people [TS]

00:47:13   people understand files better than [TS]

00:47:16   Apple gave them credit for and that's so [TS]

00:47:18   much of work that people do on computing [TS]

00:47:22   devices really comes down to dealing [TS]

00:47:24   with files and no matter what you try to [TS]

00:47:26   do with the app model with having these [TS]

00:47:29   little containers at the apps work use [TS]

00:47:31   their own data this kind of like file [TS]

00:47:32   lists architecture and or that you kind [TS]

00:47:36   of hide the files in these little dark [TS]

00:47:39   places like the document picker that we [TS]

00:47:40   have now and you kind of reluctantly [TS]

00:47:42   deal with files like it as the system I [TS]

00:47:45   think what we found over over these you [TS]

00:47:48   knows eight year whatever years that [TS]

00:47:49   we've had the iPad that we have that we [TS]

00:47:51   had a iOS 10 years Wow Gia's been a long [TS]

00:47:54   time no 11 oh my god anyway all these [TS]

00:47:58   years that we've had iOS I think what we [TS]

00:48:00   found is that files are here to stay [TS]

00:48:03   that we can we can reduce the ways we [TS]

00:48:06   deal with files we can design apps that [TS]

00:48:08   don't need to deal with files and maybe [TS]

00:48:10   that should even be the default way most [TS]

00:48:12   apps are designed depending on what they [TS]

00:48:14   do but that we can't get rid of files [TS]

00:48:17   that they're here to stay that people [TS]

00:48:19   use them that they aren't necessarily [TS]

00:48:22   even bad like it for many types of work [TS]

00:48:25   that is less bad than the alternatives [TS]

00:48:29   that we've been trying trying to shove [TS]

00:48:30   down people's throats for the last [TS]

00:48:31   decade so maybe this is finally the time [TS]

00:48:34   when Apple has finally embraced files on [TS]

00:48:38   iOS because everything they've done [TS]

00:48:39   prior to this has really not been that [TS]

00:48:41   it's really been like reluctant you know [TS]

00:48:43   back alley stuff now like they from what [TS]

00:48:47   we've what we've heard is at all true it [TS]

00:48:50   sounds like they have finally taken the [TS]

00:48:53   step of making files [TS]

00:48:55   easier to work with an iOS yeah that's [TS]

00:48:59   definitely the rumor but I feel like [TS]

00:49:00   they already took a big step in that [TS]

00:49:02   direction when they when they adopted a [TS]

00:49:05   modified version of the Dropbox model [TS]

00:49:06   with iCloud Drive like that was that was [TS]

00:49:09   a big change that was kind of not that I [TS]

00:49:10   agree that it didn't solve the problem [TS]

00:49:12   in the same way but that was the turning [TS]

00:49:14   point I feel like where you could see [TS]

00:49:15   from the outside you could see aha [TS]

00:49:17   inside the company the argument that you [TS]

00:49:19   just described like the the supposed [TS]

00:49:22   jobs for stall position totally against [TS]

00:49:24   files that the tide had turned right now [TS]

00:49:26   obviously they couldn't come out at that [TS]

00:49:28   point and say oh we've revamped the [TS]

00:49:29   entire way we deal with files in iOS [TS]

00:49:31   like they took a while and a lot of [TS]

00:49:32   these things bother by a lot of the iOS [TS]

00:49:33   rumored things a lot of them are like oh [TS]

00:49:36   that was almost ready for iOS 10 it [TS]

00:49:39   didn't quite make it like they have been [TS]

00:49:40   a long time coming some of them could [TS]

00:49:42   have been theory almost made it to iOS [TS]

00:49:43   10 but they have just you know they [TS]

00:49:45   missed releases and so they've built up [TS]

00:49:47   and so now it's all landing now but [TS]

00:49:48   iCloud Drive did come out it came out to [TS]

00:49:50   the Mac and iOS and it did change the [TS]

00:49:52   way a lot of applications you do with [TS]

00:49:53   things you mentioned like the Dropbox [TS]

00:49:54   picker which thought that was something [TS]

00:49:56   unheard of in the early days of iOS so [TS]

00:49:58   this could be like the coming-out party [TS]

00:49:59   for a strategy that was embarked upon [TS]

00:50:02   multiple years ago and now finally you [TS]

00:50:05   know comes to fruition and in terms of [TS]

00:50:07   the files like every time I think about [TS]

00:50:09   different ways of dealing with files [TS]

00:50:10   that are not actual files or not actual [TS]

00:50:12   file system and stuff like that I think [TS]

00:50:14   a little bit about Google's take on this [TS]

00:50:17   which I know is different cuz all their [TS]

00:50:18   stuff is in the cloud but the [TS]

00:50:20   interesting files and documents like [TS]

00:50:23   well this you know there's not really [TS]

00:50:24   any difference like it's just [TS]

00:50:25   alternative ways of viewing the same [TS]

00:50:26   thing but it's the way Google is pretty [TS]

00:50:29   relentless about dealing with documents [TS]

00:50:32   and documents that are organized into [TS]

00:50:35   things that look like little folders but [TS]

00:50:37   at no point are there anything is there [TS]

00:50:38   any abstraction that is identifiable as [TS]

00:50:40   a file really I mean even when they give [TS]

00:50:42   you like a list view like in in [TS]

00:50:45   experience of my experience using Google [TS]

00:50:46   Docs and Google sheets and all that [TS]

00:50:48   Google presentations and Google Drive at [TS]

00:50:50   work with a bunch of other people seeing [TS]

00:50:53   how other people both talk about and [TS]

00:50:55   deal with documents Google Documents is [TS]

00:50:58   subtly different than how they talk [TS]

00:51:02   about and deal with files because we do [TS]

00:51:04   have shared drives with files in the [TS]

00:51:06   Mareth and I'm not sure one way is [TS]

00:51:07   better than the [TS]

00:51:08   but Google has been made a pretty [TS]

00:51:10   convincing case for me that dealing with [TS]

00:51:14   things like documents even with awkward [TS]

00:51:17   weird shareable URLs but that the URLs [TS]

00:51:20   that still work even if you [TS]

00:51:21   quote-unquote remove the documents to a [TS]

00:51:23   different quote-unquote folder like it's [TS]

00:51:25   weird it's like this weird half measure [TS]

00:51:26   that I don't think is appropriate for [TS]

00:51:28   iOS but it shows me that there is that [TS]

00:51:31   it is possible to have a middle path [TS]

00:51:32   that people find at least as usable and [TS]

00:51:36   in some aspects better than the old way [TS]

00:51:38   of dealing with files obviously the [TS]

00:51:40   multi-user collaboration helps [TS]

00:51:42   tremendously to I think it bounces off [TS]

00:51:45   the awkwardness like that people would [TS]

00:51:46   in the grand scheme of things people [TS]

00:51:48   probably would rather be dealing with [TS]

00:51:49   files and folders but because Google [TS]

00:51:52   does so well with live multiple verse [TS]

00:51:54   and editing and permissioning on [TS]

00:51:55   documents that makes you know a group of [TS]

00:51:58   people like a company or working on [TS]

00:51:59   files together forgive a whole bunch of [TS]

00:52:00   other things unfortunately don't feel [TS]

00:52:03   like Apple can bring that if history has [TS]

00:52:05   shown Apple cannot bring the seamless [TS]

00:52:08   multi-user editing of all data types [TS]

00:52:11   with the constant synchronization in the [TS]

00:52:13   cloud a source of truth and blah blah [TS]

00:52:14   blah blah and style that Google does so [TS]

00:52:16   they have to they have to bring [TS]

00:52:18   something else and this is probably a [TS]

00:52:21   bad time for me to be pondering the [TS]

00:52:23   future of an iCloud Drive style [TS]

00:52:27   revolution for the entirety of iOS [TS]

00:52:29   bringing it more in line with enhancing [TS]

00:52:32   its capabilities by taking the taking [TS]

00:52:34   the shackles off and not confining to a [TS]

00:52:36   very simple paradigm because I just got [TS]

00:52:38   done today reading a sad tweets read [TS]

00:52:41   from our friend CGP grey about his [TS]

00:52:43   battles with iCloud Drive and the amount [TS]

00:52:45   of free spaces Mac thinks he has and [TS]

00:52:47   also Marco with his potentially [TS]

00:52:49   exhausted file descriptors which may or [TS]

00:52:50   may not be attributable to this all this [TS]

00:52:52   is to say that at least on the Mac [TS]

00:52:55   iCloud Drive is still in the doghouse as [TS]

00:52:58   far as I'm concerned and I kind of don't [TS]

00:53:01   relish that paradigm expanding much more [TS]

00:53:05   until reliability gets better but on iOS [TS]

00:53:09   I have to confess I haven't had any of [TS]

00:53:11   those problems on iOS and in iOS [TS]

00:53:12   everything is much more locked down and [TS]

00:53:14   maybe it will be fine [TS]

00:53:16   but but the thing you described mark [TS]

00:53:18   over like the force press and like the [TS]

00:53:19   dragging onto things if like you were [TS]

00:53:23   talking about dragging data right yet if [TS]

00:53:26   there is any kind of file picker [TS]

00:53:27   interface some way to grab one of those [TS]

00:53:32   one of those documents or files or [TS]

00:53:33   whatever and bring it somewhere seems [TS]

00:53:36   like a necessity and obviously that that [TS]

00:53:38   then inference you described works even [TS]

00:53:39   better on a big screen because then [TS]

00:53:41   you've got the second hand to swipe like [TS]

00:53:42   that's the whole problem with like once [TS]

00:53:43   you've grabbed that quote-unquote [TS]

00:53:45   grabbed it what if the thing you want to [TS]

00:53:47   drag it to isn't there because it does [TS]

00:53:49   the grid of things like then you have to [TS]

00:53:50   do like it's the springboard rearranging [TS]

00:53:53   problem like when you grab a thing to [TS]

00:53:55   rearrange springboard and you want to [TS]

00:53:56   rearrange it to a different screen you [TS]

00:53:57   got a drag you to the edge you hold it [TS]

00:53:58   there and it's generally it's an [TS]

00:53:59   operation that people find awkward and [TS]

00:54:02   unsatisfying whereas if you can grab it [TS]

00:54:04   on your iPad and with your other hand [TS]

00:54:07   swipe around to find the thing you want [TS]

00:54:09   to drag it on top that works on a phone [TS]

00:54:11   it works less well so I almost think [TS]

00:54:12   that interface you describe a will [TS]

00:54:15   almost certainly be a part of a bunch of [TS]

00:54:16   demos even if it's not files data but [TS]

00:54:18   just like it has to be some kind of grab [TS]

00:54:21   a file and then zoom in or out to a [TS]

00:54:23   different view and put it on something [TS]

00:54:24   else it can't just be side by side at [TS]

00:54:26   least I feel away they're going to even [TS]

00:54:27   be some kind of a little like shelf [TS]

00:54:28   thing to kind of temporarily hold it [TS]

00:54:30   while you use your other while you use [TS]

00:54:32   the same hand to pick the destination [TS]

00:54:34   right but I always think that interface [TS]

00:54:36   is actually better suited to a bigger [TS]

00:54:38   screen it sounds like they won't do it [TS]

00:54:39   on a smaller one in fact they have no [TS]

00:54:40   choice but to do in a smaller one [TS]

00:54:41   because they said you can't split it [TS]

00:54:43   even a shelf on a smaller one so well on [TS]

00:54:44   my phone iPhone 5 iPhone se where the [TS]

00:54:48   hell that thing is called you can have [TS]

00:54:50   room for a shelf to put I don't know but [TS]

00:54:53   I'm kind of excited about that I saw the [TS]

00:54:56   coming out party of this this file-based [TS]

00:54:58   paradigm because and I think it's also [TS]

00:55:00   no guarantee that it will be the [TS]

00:55:02   solution everyone seeks obviously nerds [TS]

00:55:03   will love it way better but but we'll [TS]

00:55:06   see like you know again with my [TS]

00:55:08   experience with Google with Google's [TS]

00:55:10   products nothing about them made people [TS]

00:55:13   better about dealing with files but it [TS]

00:55:16   brought a bunch of features with it that [TS]

00:55:19   everybody loves and I guess the only [TS]

00:55:21   thing only improvement to the file [TS]

00:55:22   paradigm it brought with it is sharing [TS]

00:55:25   the people seem to be able to figure out [TS]

00:55:26   which is not true of like sharing and a [TS]

00:55:28   lot of other systems [TS]

00:55:30   and the fact that you can move things [TS]

00:55:31   around and people's links to them don't [TS]

00:55:33   break which is is convenient so I have [TS]

00:55:37   I've kind of middle the road hopes for [TS]

00:55:38   iOS 11 but I expect it to be the true [TS]

00:55:41   star of the keynote if there's no Siri [TS]

00:55:44   tube I would also expect some degree of [TS]

00:55:48   redesign we've seen little rumblings [TS]

00:55:50   here and there about this I think if you [TS]

00:55:53   look at the conditions that were right [TS]

00:55:58   before iOS 7 so at the iOS 6 era it was [TS]

00:56:02   a time when the system stock UI widgets [TS]

00:56:06   started looking more dated than usual [TS]

00:56:09   and they're starting like apps started [TS]

00:56:12   coming out that people consider to be [TS]

00:56:14   really good new design that was kind of [TS]

00:56:16   fresh and different that also was kind [TS]

00:56:18   of converging on some similar principles [TS]

00:56:20   so back then it was like letterpress and [TS]

00:56:22   like then vesper like the you know these [TS]

00:56:24   apps that were back in the I was 6 era [TS]

00:56:27   that were doing like you know flat [TS]

00:56:30   shapes no big textures you know mostly [TS]

00:56:33   color and you know accent color based [TS]

00:56:35   design things that that ended up being [TS]

00:56:37   very close to what iOS 7 was and then [TS]

00:56:40   iOS 7 came out it was kind of at the [TS]

00:56:41   right time for it well I think now is [TS]

00:56:43   the right time for a redesign not on the [TS]

00:56:46   scale of iOS 7 redesign but maybe on the [TS]

00:56:51   scale of when we went from iOS 5 to 6 [TS]

00:56:53   remember [TS]

00:56:54   iOS 6 was kind of a half step in a [TS]

00:56:57   redesign like it kind of it got rid of a [TS]

00:56:59   lot of the iOS 5 extravagance of things [TS]

00:57:02   like textures like certain things were [TS]

00:57:03   flattened and toned down and sanded away [TS]

00:57:05   and things like that so I think we're [TS]

00:57:08   going to have that level of redesign [TS]

00:57:10   here because we can see even if you look [TS]

00:57:13   around even Apple's own apps if you look [TS]

00:57:16   at iOS 10 the iOS 10 music app and maps [TS]

00:57:19   especially I think has a different look [TS]

00:57:21   than everything else and a couple years [TS]

00:57:24   ago they released the WTC 2017 NASA [TS]

00:57:27   isn't that the thing we always do it we [TS]

00:57:29   see app and we say this is what the new [TS]

00:57:31   iOS is going to look like and sometimes [TS]

00:57:34   there's an element of truth that a lot [TS]

00:57:36   of times not right but but there are I [TS]

00:57:39   think we can see common elements that [TS]

00:57:42   are now considered [TS]

00:57:44   good fresh new design that are kind of [TS]

00:57:46   being agreed upon or converged upon that [TS]

00:57:49   are very different from ios7 some [TS]

00:57:51   examples this would be things like kind [TS]

00:57:54   of layered sheets with rounded corners [TS]

00:57:57   instead of navigation controllers in iOS [TS]

00:58:00   7 the push big white sharp rectangles [TS]

00:58:03   side to side and now you have these like [TS]

00:58:05   softer rounded sheets that slide up you [TS]

00:58:08   pull things with swipes and you know and [TS]

00:58:10   swipes are your primary navigation often [TS]

00:58:12   for a lot of apps you move controls you [TS]

00:58:16   know you scoot them kind of in away from [TS]

00:58:19   the edges and corners so much because [TS]

00:58:20   they're harder to reach on big phones [TS]

00:58:22   this is a lot of stuff I did with [TS]

00:58:23   overcast and the reason I did it was [TS]

00:58:25   because I saw the stuff happening I saw [TS]

00:58:26   this trend happening I wanted to get [TS]

00:58:28   ahead of it you have buttons that look a [TS]

00:58:31   little bit more like buttons like in the [TS]

00:58:33   WC app is a great example they're like [TS]

00:58:35   they're rounded rectangles that are [TS]

00:58:38   they're not textured there there's a [TS]

00:58:40   solid little solid color instead of just [TS]

00:58:42   an outline because that I go in with [TS]

00:58:43   with note with just the text and then [TS]

00:58:45   there was outlines around the text and [TS]

00:58:47   now we can go slowly creeping back up [TS]

00:58:49   onto the old style button where it is a [TS]

00:58:51   solid rounded rectangle with text in the [TS]

00:58:53   middle exactly yeah now you guys have a [TS]

00:58:54   flat saw a flat shaded filled solid [TS]

00:58:57   filled rectangle or round wrecked with [TS]

00:58:59   with and and it's with a bold color to [TS]

00:59:01   it isn't like a subtle thing it isn't a [TS]

00:59:03   gray it's a bold color and it seems like [TS]

00:59:07   apps are now kind of permitted to use [TS]

00:59:09   more than one color at a time like the [TS]

00:59:11   the iOS 7 design was largely based upon [TS]

00:59:15   using mostly white some thin grey lines [TS]

00:59:18   and then you'd have one tint color and [TS]

00:59:21   that would be like your one accent color [TS]

00:59:23   for your app and you'd use that one so [TS]

00:59:26   you basically had like single color [TS]

00:59:28   design grayscale plus one color now I [TS]

00:59:31   think we're having multiple colors are [TS]

00:59:33   now okay to have an apps again and so an [TS]

00:59:37   eeo again if you look at like look at [TS]

00:59:39   Apple music look at the iOS 10 Maps app [TS]

00:59:42   and this new WTC 2017 app and I think [TS]

00:59:45   you see this clear convergence of a [TS]

00:59:48   refreshed design language it is not on [TS]

00:59:51   the scale of iOS 7's redesign but the [TS]

00:59:55   same or more maybe as the iOS 6 readers [TS]

00:59:58   was [TS]

00:59:58   was [TS]

01:00:00   think you're going to keep the I mean I [TS]

01:00:01   guess they have to probably in some way [TS]

01:00:02   the the button list buttons like even [TS]

01:00:05   just for things that are in whatever you [TS]

01:00:07   call the top bar where you had done or [TS]

01:00:09   you we good yeah navigate yeah that's [TS]

01:00:11   that was a big question I have when when [TS]

01:00:12   write-ins I was like what do they do [TS]

01:00:14   with navigation bar buttons because in [TS]

01:00:15   the iOS six days they would have [TS]

01:00:17   outlines and textures and like and it [TS]

01:00:20   and I don't think that would look good [TS]

01:00:21   here but I think they can be done well [TS]

01:00:24   part I mean part of the answer honestly [TS]

01:00:26   might just be that navigation bars are [TS]

01:00:29   going out of style and that you know [TS]

01:00:31   most apps are not using these kind of [TS]

01:00:32   like sheets and cards and things that [TS]

01:00:33   are not as often using navigation bars [TS]

01:00:36   or not putting buttons there because you [TS]

01:00:38   can't reach that anymore so bright but [TS]

01:00:39   they're they're still going to be in the [TS]

01:00:41   OS I think they're going to keep the [TS]

01:00:42   they'll keep them in the OS especially [TS]

01:00:44   for legacy applications they obviously [TS]

01:00:46   have to importing them and I think they [TS]

01:00:47   will continue to be on the Doorn because [TS]

01:00:50   at this point like the bar itself serves [TS]

01:00:52   as a pretty good framing device to be - [TS]

01:00:55   indeed the tint color plus the bar this [TS]

01:00:58   is one area where I think they were [TS]

01:00:58   right makes it pretty clear that by this [TS]

01:01:01   point if you have an iPhone for any of [TS]

01:01:03   your time that that done thing is a [TS]

01:01:05   button and then you can hit it and you [TS]

01:01:06   kind of have an idea of what it will do [TS]

01:01:08   one of the most awkward elements that [TS]

01:01:10   was that'd recently was at the iOS 9 [TS]

01:01:11   where they had the back arrow thing they [TS]

01:01:13   jam up into the upper left corner to get [TS]

01:01:15   you back to the previous application I [TS]

01:01:16   would love for them to come up with a [TS]

01:01:18   better solution for that I don't have an [TS]

01:01:20   idea for them but it always strikes me [TS]

01:01:22   is the the most awkward Johnny I've [TS]

01:01:24   painting inappropriately composed text [TS]

01:01:28   jammed up into the cars it's like the [TS]

01:01:30   beginning of a kernel panic like it [TS]

01:01:31   starts writing here's this tiny little [TS]

01:01:34   bit and I appreciate the functionality [TS]

01:01:35   like I use it all the time it is good [TS]

01:01:37   although sometimes it fakes me out [TS]

01:01:38   because sometimes I want to hit the [TS]

01:01:39   thing that's in the navigation bar [TS]

01:01:41   underneath that thing that's not a fun [TS]

01:01:43   operation to like carefully you know [TS]

01:01:46   here's the thing I do like I go for my [TS]

01:01:48   mail application click a link and then [TS]

01:01:50   I'm into Safari the navigation thing [TS]

01:01:52   that hop says go back to mail right and [TS]

01:01:54   then you're scrolling through the web [TS]

01:01:56   page it open in Safari and you navigate [TS]

01:01:58   that you navigating you realize oh I [TS]

01:01:59   want to go back to the previous page in [TS]

01:02:01   Safari yes if you didn't have a case on [TS]

01:02:02   your iPhone you'll probably edge swipe [TS]

01:02:04   but I have difficulty with that because [TS]

01:02:05   I do have a case so what I want to do is [TS]

01:02:07   hit the back button in Safari which a is [TS]

01:02:09   invisible right now because I've [TS]

01:02:10   scrolled [TS]

01:02:11   right and B when I find a way to make [TS]

01:02:14   visible is nestled snugly under the back [TS]

01:02:17   to mail link so very frequently I go to [TS]

01:02:19   hit the back button instead I hit the [TS]

01:02:22   two pixels away back to mail thing [TS]

01:02:24   instead of going back as far I go into [TS]

01:02:26   an entirely different application and [TS]

01:02:27   then I'm sad so I would love for them to [TS]

01:02:29   sort that out [TS]

01:02:30   speaking of it there you go there's [TS]

01:02:32   something they could do for iOS on the [TS]

01:02:35   phone for small screens sort out that [TS]

01:02:38   mess up there somehow and if the [TS]

01:02:39   solution is like like you said like you [TS]

01:02:41   know navigation bars the advices don't [TS]

01:02:45   do that because people can't reach them [TS]

01:02:46   anymore and here are different paradigms [TS]

01:02:49   you know either just you know edge [TS]

01:02:50   swipes or a lower navigation bar thing [TS]

01:02:53   or those rounded rect sheets or whatever [TS]

01:02:55   I'm I'm ready for that because I think [TS]

01:02:57   that a iOS interface it read it up you [TS]

01:03:01   know best practices shift that better [TS]

01:03:05   reflects the size of phone screens these [TS]

01:03:08   days is a little bit overdue ya have a [TS]

01:03:11   double tap to move things down like it [TS]

01:03:13   was nice they put that there but you [TS]

01:03:16   know that that's another like that [TS]

01:03:17   little back thing that's another like [TS]

01:03:18   well what can we do in the timeframe of [TS]

01:03:20   this release to help people with large [TS]

01:03:21   screens up you know well they could tap [TS]

01:03:23   on the thing and make the screen fold [TS]

01:03:25   that yeah all right perfect ship it that [TS]

01:03:27   I think is the more embarrassing hack [TS]

01:03:29   compared to the status bar back button [TS]

01:03:31   thing the reach ability feature is so [TS]

01:03:34   embarrassing I honestly I I think it [TS]

01:03:38   probably has some utility but I just [TS]

01:03:40   never remembered that it exists the only [TS]

01:03:42   time I remembers it exists is when I [TS]

01:03:44   accidentally activate it and then I go [TS]

01:03:45   you know I could probably benefit from [TS]

01:03:47   using that intentionally every once in a [TS]

01:03:48   while but I no never never do I don't [TS]

01:03:51   think I've ever used it intentionally [TS]

01:03:52   that eventually I just disabled it [TS]

01:03:54   there's an option so instead of super [TS]

01:03:55   say because I knew I would only ever [TS]

01:03:57   accidentally invoke it and it drove me [TS]

01:03:59   nuts so I just turned it off and it's [TS]

01:04:00   been fine so anything else about iOS [TS]

01:04:04   we're just zoom 11 there's gonna keep [TS]

01:04:06   going up with the numbers yeah yeah [TS]

01:04:08   somebody had an interesting theory I [TS]

01:04:10   want to say it was either Mike or Jason [TS]

01:04:11   that that everything will go to 11 this [TS]

01:04:15   year so in Mac OS 11 I Oh s 11 yeah that [TS]

01:04:19   was that was Jason I highly recommend if [TS]

01:04:20   you if you haven't heard by the end of [TS]

01:04:22   this episode at this like probably four [TS]

01:04:24   hour long episode if you haven't heard [TS]

01:04:26   enough WC predictions [TS]

01:04:28   I highly recommend this week's episode [TS]

01:04:29   of upgrade there's a lot of good stuff [TS]

01:04:32   in there yeah very much so they do a [TS]

01:04:33   whole draft it's very funny and it's [TS]

01:04:36   where it's very much worth listening to [TS]

01:04:38   in the show is in general but [TS]

01:04:39   particularly the WDC episodes are great [TS]

01:04:41   but anyway yeah going to 11 I mean they [TS]

01:04:44   took the numbers they took the Roman [TS]

01:04:46   numeral off Mac OS and I don't I don't [TS]

01:04:48   see why they put the number back on at [TS]

01:04:50   this point you know I mean like iOS 11 [TS]

01:04:53   Mac OS has the the place names and I [TS]

01:04:55   like I like the yearly the flavor the [TS]

01:04:59   yearly flavor I honestly it would be [TS]

01:05:01   cool if I always have those two I know [TS]

01:05:02   they don't do it or whatever but like [TS]

01:05:04   it's kind of like a legacy thing for Mac [TS]

01:05:06   OS when it had the code names then it [TS]

01:05:08   had the cat names and now it's got the [TS]

01:05:10   place names and get you know get Mac on [TS]

01:05:12   with some fun stuff it had to endure [TS]

01:05:13   this terrible capitalization squished up [TS]

01:05:15   name so it matches all their other [TS]

01:05:17   stupid OS names at the very least [TS]

01:05:20   continue to give it to place names [TS]

01:05:22   because there's lots of fun things you [TS]

01:05:24   can do with that if they were to get rid [TS]

01:05:25   of that and just go with Mac OS 11 iOS [TS]

01:05:27   11 certainly fits with the human for me [TS]

01:05:29   story like is that they want everything [TS]

01:05:31   to be all the same and look now we're [TS]

01:05:32   sick right but what the hell would the [TS]

01:05:34   11 mean because it's not the version [TS]

01:05:35   number I can tell you that like it [TS]

01:05:37   really just bumped the version number to [TS]

01:05:38   be 11 I think I feel like they should [TS]

01:05:40   have learned their lesson when they went [TS]

01:05:42   to you know from 10 9 to 10 10 and [TS]

01:05:44   everyone's like version number you know [TS]

01:05:46   everyone's incorrect version number [TS]

01:05:47   checks and their applications got all [TS]

01:05:49   freaked out to change the first digit [TS]

01:05:51   from 10 to 11 in the version I mean they [TS]

01:05:54   didn't do it once I suppose they can do [TS]

01:05:56   it but it just it just seems like not a [TS]

01:05:57   big marketing win because 11 is more [TS]

01:05:59   boring than like Sacramento or whatever [TS]

01:06:01   I think changed in the first digit makes [TS]

01:06:04   total sense like it and you know as [TS]

01:06:05   Jason said on the upgrade like if [TS]

01:06:07   they're ever going to do it it makes [TS]

01:06:09   total sense to do it now so it sort of [TS]

01:06:11   then matches the iOS version for future [TS]

01:06:13   marketing purposes [TS]

01:06:15   and you know if it whether the first [TS]

01:06:17   four you know right now the first digit [TS]

01:06:19   has been 10 for so long it's basically [TS]

01:06:22   meaningless like you can just ignore the [TS]

01:06:24   first it doesn't matter at all which [TS]

01:06:25   kind of raises the question of why why [TS]

01:06:27   even bother keeping that for like it's [TS]

01:06:28   like it what purpose is it serving just [TS]

01:06:31   being ten point something for it it's [TS]

01:06:33   making people's incorrect version number [TS]

01:06:35   checks continue to function correctly [TS]

01:06:36   that was a Windows thing that's why they [TS]

01:06:38   went from 8 to 10 that was this on a Mac [TS]

01:06:40   thing I mean like know that with them [TS]

01:06:41   Mack they had it when they went ten nine [TS]

01:06:43   to ten ten because a lot of things would [TS]

01:06:45   interpret ten ten is ten one and being [TS]

01:06:46   less than ten nine because yeah I mean [TS]

01:06:48   it's not a big deal like those you know [TS]

01:06:50   it's not gonna stop them from doing it [TS]

01:06:51   certainly if they feel like it [TS]

01:06:52   especially for marketing reasons but [TS]

01:06:54   it's you know I don't I think the bigger [TS]

01:06:56   reasons it to to not do it is because [TS]

01:06:58   place names are more fun than numbers [TS]

01:07:00   and and like and we all been asking like [TS]

01:07:03   Mac OS stop trying to keep pace with iOS [TS]

01:07:06   would be more comfortable if you waited [TS]

01:07:08   a little bit longer between releases and [TS]

01:07:09   got things settled because that's your [TS]

01:07:10   role your role is the more slow-moving [TS]

01:07:12   one but they're not doing that they're [TS]

01:07:13   already not doing that they're already [TS]

01:07:15   releasing them both once a year I know [TS]

01:07:16   but but if they make the numbers sync [TS]

01:07:18   then that's like saying we're signed up [TS]

01:07:19   for you know an unlimited number more [TS]

01:07:22   years where every year that they have to [TS]

01:07:25   be in lockstep and I don't like that [TS]

01:07:27   yeah anyway what else what else do [TS]

01:07:30   besides naming things aside I love that [TS]

01:07:33   every year this discussion happens about [TS]

01:07:36   like Mac OS naming it's always heavily [TS]

01:07:38   discussed because it is it is more [TS]

01:07:40   interesting and everyone has an opinion [TS]

01:07:42   myself included like much more than we [TS]

01:07:43   think we will anyway so let's get aside [TS]

01:07:47   with the new default desktop backgrounds [TS]

01:07:48   will be that's the most exciting part of [TS]

01:07:50   Mac OS is like and it's kind of and you [TS]

01:07:53   know I speak as someone who reviews for [TS]

01:07:55   Mac operating system for a long time [TS]

01:07:57   I enjoyed the like the visual theming [TS]

01:08:02   and branding and on the Mac the default [TS]

01:08:06   desktop picture is the biggest boldest [TS]

01:08:10   branding thing of the running OS iOS [TS]

01:08:13   they do the best they do with branding [TS]

01:08:16   is the lock screens they show in the PR [TS]

01:08:19   stuff and maybe the selections of the [TS]

01:08:21   springboard backgrounds but they're [TS]

01:08:23   always much more hidden than if you see [TS]

01:08:26   a Mac desktop of it like a newly booted [TS]

01:08:28   Mac even if it has a few windows open [TS]

01:08:30   like the the desktop background is so [TS]

01:08:32   dominant whereas the springboard [TS]

01:08:34   background is much less dominant so [TS]

01:08:35   there's not much in iOS to massively [TS]

01:08:39   brand the OS outside of the the widgets [TS]

01:08:41   themselves and the UI and stuff like [TS]

01:08:43   that so I I do enjoy like a you think [TS]

01:08:46   you're making a joke like oh who cares [TS]

01:08:47   what the default desktop background is [TS]

01:08:49   the Mac yeah that's a big part of the [TS]

01:08:51   excitement of a new version of the Mac [TS]

01:08:53   operating system for me I don't know [TS]

01:08:54   on an anomaly but like the big posters [TS]

01:08:56   they put up with whatever the theme is [TS]

01:08:58   or the big waves for mavericks and the [TS]

01:09:00   cool pictures of Yosemite and I like [TS]

01:09:04   that stuff and you know in the absence [TS]

01:09:06   of them particularly changing the Mac UI [TS]

01:09:08   which doesn't seem like they're [TS]

01:09:09   interested in these days all we get is a [TS]

01:09:12   cool name and a cool desktop picture and [TS]

01:09:14   sometimes that's enough to make an [TS]

01:09:16   association of my mind that I will I [TS]

01:09:18   will link those images in that branding [TS]

01:09:21   in that sort of mood and theme with [TS]

01:09:23   whatever features they add whether they [TS]

01:09:25   be oh this is the one that had Siri or [TS]

01:09:26   this is the one where they added [TS]

01:09:27   spotlight or is the one that had time [TS]

01:09:29   machine or this year this is the one [TS]

01:09:31   with the new file system that they won't [TS]

01:09:32   even mention in the keynote so so that's [TS]

01:09:35   so that leads into my next point here [TS]

01:09:37   our Mac OS which is you know first of [TS]

01:09:40   all I think we we all assume based on [TS]

01:09:42   how they did iOS as roll out and their [TS]

01:09:44   promises last year that a PFS is most [TS]

01:09:47   likely going to ship with whatever the [TS]

01:09:49   next version Mac OS is and I would even [TS]

01:09:52   say most likely even the default and I [TS]

01:09:55   would go a little bit further and say [TS]

01:09:56   what if it's the only option what if you [TS]

01:09:58   have to convert your boot drive other [TS]

01:10:01   drives you do probably whatever you want [TS]

01:10:02   but what if you have to convert your [TS]

01:10:04   boot drive to a PFS upon installation I [TS]

01:10:07   think that will be that big of a deal [TS]

01:10:10   because a we know they can do it really [TS]

01:10:12   really well right so that you know it's [TS]

01:10:15   not like it's going to trash people's [TS]

01:10:16   data and of all the things be like a [TS]

01:10:17   boot drive the only time that messes [TS]

01:10:20   with you is if you frequently use target [TS]

01:10:22   disk mode right because every other way [TS]

01:10:24   that that disk is read you don't have to [TS]

01:10:28   worry there's not IDs Plus anymore [TS]

01:10:30   target disk mode all of a sudden your [TS]

01:10:31   other Mac's can't read it anymore if [TS]

01:10:32   they're not upgraded as well right but [TS]

01:10:34   all if you're sharing it like it's you [TS]

01:10:35   know SMB or you know whatever like it's [TS]

01:10:37   not doesn't matter what format it is and [TS]

01:10:39   so I think that's a reasonable thing to [TS]

01:10:42   do I'm just wondering like what would be [TS]

01:10:43   the advantage right oh this operation [TS]

01:10:45   doesn't have to run hfs+ maybe if [TS]

01:10:48   there's some kind of headlining feature [TS]

01:10:49   that demands a PFS like the newly [TS]

01:10:53   rejected version of time machine that's [TS]

01:10:54   like way more efficient and stuff but [TS]

01:10:56   they have an old version of time machine [TS]

01:10:58   that works as H of s plus I don't know [TS]

01:11:01   personally I don't think there's going [TS]

01:11:03   to be the fancy new version of time [TS]

01:11:04   machine that works with a PS yet anyway [TS]

01:11:06   so I think this is not the [TS]

01:11:08   for forcing default unless is some other [TS]

01:11:10   feature I that I'm not thinking of about [TS]

01:11:12   forcing the the boot volume to be a PFS [TS]

01:11:14   I think they could do it but I'm looking [TS]

01:11:15   for a reason why they would want to but [TS]

01:11:18   they would want to do that [TS]

01:11:21   maybe maybe simplicity I like again with [TS]

01:11:23   all the Mac things they just feel like [TS]

01:11:25   do they care enough about the Mac to be [TS]

01:11:28   that aggressive with the advancement of [TS]

01:11:30   the platform or where they just you know [TS]

01:11:31   this is one area where they will take a [TS]

01:11:32   slower pace like this year a PFS rollout [TS]

01:11:34   a couple new features that are based on [TS]

01:11:36   it next year if we're lucky the new [TS]

01:11:38   version of time machine that takes [TS]

01:11:39   advantage of all the cool stuff right [TS]

01:11:41   see I have a hard time gauging like how [TS]

01:11:45   much of a big deal Mac OS is going to be [TS]

01:11:48   this year there's a whole bunch of [TS]

01:11:49   things that that the Mac could you know [TS]

01:11:53   if they're going to be putting more [TS]

01:11:54   effort into the Mac than they have been [TS]

01:11:55   recently there are areas that that could [TS]

01:11:59   be really cool things like a new time [TS]

01:12:01   machine based on a PFS snapshots and [TS]

01:12:03   everything and and that could there's [TS]

01:12:05   that's incredibly powerful the things [TS]

01:12:06   you can do by having a snapshot based [TS]

01:12:08   time machine you know and there's - you [TS]

01:12:11   know you can do not only the external [TS]

01:12:12   drive backup but even like just making [TS]

01:12:14   giving snapshot support to the internal [TS]

01:12:17   time machine like the the time machine [TS]

01:12:19   on its own drive kind of thing like kind [TS]

01:12:21   of like mini time machine having get rid [TS]

01:12:22   of the terrible local time machine hack [TS]

01:12:24   that we are yeah our Mac laptops whether [TS]

01:12:26   we know it or not which is in my [TS]

01:12:28   experience extremely unreliable and yet [TS]

01:12:30   still they're grinding away trying to do [TS]

01:12:32   something useful for you and just like [TS]

01:12:33   just please stop and you can turn it off [TS]

01:12:35   yes I know exactly that like they're [TS]

01:12:37   there are there's all this cruft [TS]

01:12:38   in mac OS because of having to do these [TS]

01:12:41   advanced features on HFS+ that if they [TS]

01:12:44   just make a PFS the only option that [TS]

01:12:47   just your boot drive automatically gets [TS]

01:12:49   converted when you install the next Mac [TS]

01:12:52   OS which is exactly what they did with [TS]

01:12:54   iOS then they could they could stop [TS]

01:12:58   supporting a whole lot of that legacy [TS]

01:12:59   stuff like it would be it'd be much [TS]

01:13:01   better for their efforts to bring the a [TS]

01:13:03   PFS features forward if they knew the OS [TS]

01:13:07   was only running on a PFS so I think [TS]

01:13:09   it's it's plausible but I still have to [TS]

01:13:11   support all hfs+ anyway because you [TS]

01:13:13   could time machine back of external [TS]

01:13:14   volumes and they're going to be H of s [TS]

01:13:15   plus and so on and so forth so like it's [TS]

01:13:18   not like they can get rid of all the [TS]

01:13:19   legacy Croft code and [TS]

01:13:20   time soon that's why I'm thinking of [TS]

01:13:21   like but what if there's a feature that [TS]

01:13:22   they just like they wouldn't want to [TS]

01:13:24   have a feature that says oh let's let's [TS]

01:13:25   demo this awesome new feature say it's [TS]

01:13:27   the new time machine and also have to [TS]

01:13:29   say oh and you could only use this [TS]

01:13:30   feature if you convert your boot volume [TS]

01:13:32   that's the case where they would say [TS]

01:13:33   you're you know they probably won't even [TS]

01:13:35   mention it but be it would be able to [TS]

01:13:36   convert your boob on you no matter what [TS]

01:13:38   but even in that case they still have to [TS]

01:13:40   support the old crap way of time machine [TS]

01:13:41   because people I have external drives [TS]

01:13:43   that I back up their time machine and [TS]

01:13:45   they are hfs+ and asking people to you [TS]

01:13:49   know not asking but forcibly upgrading [TS]

01:13:51   the boot drive as part of the upgrade [TS]

01:13:52   process like they did in iOS you can [TS]

01:13:54   swing that telling them oh and by the [TS]

01:13:56   way you also have to convert all your [TS]

01:13:57   external drives not not gonna happen [TS]

01:13:59   yeah maybe [TS]

01:14:01   well I I'm stopped miss that they might [TS]

01:14:03   require on the boot drive though but [TS]

01:14:04   anyway that's a that's a question for [TS]

01:14:06   prediction wise do you think the were [TS]

01:14:08   the letters AP FS and that order all [TS]

01:14:10   capitals will appear on any slide or be [TS]

01:14:12   spoken by any presenter like I said we [TS]

01:14:14   spoken in passing maybe yes [TS]

01:14:16   will it appear on a slide yes absolutely [TS]

01:14:18   worst-case scenario it will appear on [TS]

01:14:20   the word cloud slide uh yeah it is I [TS]

01:14:22   mean obviously in State of the Union and [TS]

01:14:23   stuff would be I'm trying to think of [TS]

01:14:24   the keynote does it does it make peace [TS]

01:14:25   didn't make the keynote last year and [TS]

01:14:27   that's when it was introduced remember [TS]

01:14:28   we found out about it when we left the [TS]

01:14:29   building and it was like oh by the way a [TS]

01:14:31   BFS I remember that moment very [TS]

01:14:33   specifically as I remember it too but [TS]

01:14:35   like the fact that it didn't make the [TS]

01:14:37   keynote didn't do not good enough for [TS]

01:14:40   the keynote sorry [TS]

01:14:41   replacing a you know 15 year old 19 year [TS]

01:14:45   old depending on how you trace it back [TS]

01:14:46   the HFS the file system not not [TS]

01:14:49   important it made the State of the Union [TS]

01:14:51   and it totally will this time too and [TS]

01:14:52   it'll be sessions about it and I'll be [TS]

01:14:54   all happy and everything but I really [TS]

01:14:55   that's big of hopes and dreams give me [TS]

01:14:58   this one ha talk about a PFS at least in [TS]

01:15:01   passing during the Mac section of the [TS]

01:15:04   viz keynote do you hear that Craig make [TS]

01:15:06   it happen [TS]

01:15:08   Jesus so here's a long shot there was [TS]

01:15:11   there was a thing that I think he TV [TS]

01:15:13   tipster told us forever ago that was [TS]

01:15:15   like being considered and I haven't [TS]

01:15:17   heard a thing about it since what [TS]

01:15:18   probably isn't happening long shot [TS]

01:15:20   though do you think they would offer [TS]

01:15:22   iCloud Time Machine as an online backup [TS]

01:15:26   and and here's so one reason I think [TS]

01:15:28   they might besides the fact that they [TS]

01:15:30   now would have the the technical info [TS]

01:15:33   sure with a PFS to reasonably do it I [TS]

01:15:36   think one of the one of the themes that [TS]

01:15:39   I expect to see here is Apple pushing [TS]

01:15:42   people even harder into subscribing to [TS]

01:15:45   iCloud data plants into buying more [TS]

01:15:48   iCloud storage space give you more and [TS]

01:15:50   more compelling reasons for people to [TS]

01:15:52   start paying Apple three five ten or [TS]

01:15:55   twenty dollars a month for this iPod [TS]

01:15:57   storage space because there's going to [TS]

01:15:58   be more and more features that can use [TS]

01:16:00   it [TS]

01:16:00   iCloud time machine would use a ton of [TS]

01:16:02   it so what if they did that [TS]

01:16:05   I'll buy totally going to do that it's [TS]

01:16:07   just a question of whether it's it's [TS]

01:16:08   this year or not and and speaking of [TS]

01:16:09   Apple services I think I mean we still [TS]

01:16:12   complain about their pricing and how [TS]

01:16:13   they're sometimes competitive sometimes [TS]

01:16:15   not depending on the year depending on [TS]

01:16:17   the thing you're looking at depending on [TS]

01:16:18   how you're measuring it but I've always [TS]

01:16:20   felt like the Apple way to do things and [TS]

01:16:21   we mention this many times in the [TS]

01:16:22   context of iOS and now I think of it [TS]

01:16:25   again in the context of iCloud time [TS]

01:16:27   machine is not to buy an amount of space [TS]

01:16:30   because that's a techie nerd thing and [TS]

01:16:31   people don't like to think about that [TS]

01:16:33   especially because it's like more price [TS]

01:16:34   you know higher price for more put to [TS]

01:16:36   sell to sell a backup my Mac plan right [TS]

01:16:41   like I mean you're like Backblaze or any [TS]

01:16:43   other things do like you don't buy based [TS]

01:16:45   on space you buy based on I want to [TS]

01:16:47   backup this Mac like you buy like a [TS]

01:16:49   membership in a club and then you break [TS]

01:16:52   the association between like Apple loves [TS]

01:16:54   to do break the association between the [TS]

01:16:55   dollar amount and a spec right the [TS]

01:16:58   dollar amount and storage space and now [TS]

01:17:00   it's the dollar amount and a result and [TS]

01:17:03   the result is your Mac is part of the [TS]

01:17:05   iCloud backup cloud and just like your [TS]

01:17:07   phone is backed up to the cloud your Mac [TS]

01:17:09   is back though obviously the phone has [TS]

01:17:10   the same problem that you buy storage [TS]

01:17:11   spacing people run out of it and they [TS]

01:17:12   freak out and we've talked about this a [TS]

01:17:13   million times if Apple's going to charge [TS]

01:17:15   more than everybody else the way to hide [TS]

01:17:17   that extra cost is to I mean essentially [TS]

01:17:20   like go unlimited but not really like to [TS]

01:17:23   make it to make it that you're buying [TS]

01:17:25   the result and obviously how much [TS]

01:17:27   storage space we would use would be [TS]

01:17:29   based on the size of your your your boot [TS]

01:17:31   drive of your device or their like that [TS]

01:17:33   obviously that would be a limit and you [TS]

01:17:35   know and I mean but like to frame it in [TS]

01:17:37   that way or maybe it doesn't have to be [TS]

01:17:38   a way honestly aback players can do it [TS]

01:17:39   why the hell can't Apple right can't is [TS]

01:17:42   very different and will continue anyway [TS]

01:17:45   I [TS]

01:17:47   Time Machine has to come just I don't [TS]

01:17:51   know if local time machine is even [TS]

01:17:52   coming this year let alone cloud Time [TS]

01:17:54   Machine is it I think that is entirely a [TS]

01:17:57   matter of how they could have done that [TS]

01:17:59   years ago like they could have done it [TS]

01:18:00   badly but like you know they did it on [TS]

01:18:02   the phones with HFS+ and obviously the [TS]

01:18:03   phones is easier because you know [TS]

01:18:05   exactly what you need to back up and you [TS]

01:18:06   can discard lots of stuff because you [TS]

01:18:07   can get it from the store and yada yada [TS]

01:18:08   yada [TS]

01:18:09   but Apple love services and you're right [TS]

01:18:11   this is a way to charge more for [TS]

01:18:12   services and they have the technical [TS]

01:18:14   underpinnings to do a much better job of [TS]

01:18:16   this so it's it's only a matter of time [TS]

01:18:18   and a matter of you know how much [TS]

01:18:19   attention is the Matt getting yeah I [TS]

01:18:21   really do think that what Apple wants [TS]

01:18:24   and what you know they're pushing for [TS]

01:18:26   more and more services revenue obviously [TS]

01:18:28   it's it's the it's an area of growth [TS]

01:18:31   that they can use that is probably [TS]

01:18:33   easier to achieve than some of the other [TS]

01:18:35   areas of growth to maintain such [TS]

01:18:37   different scales and everything so [TS]

01:18:39   they're going to be pushing this heavily [TS]

01:18:40   as they have been the last couple years [TS]

01:18:41   I expect in general I expect there to be [TS]

01:18:44   things like very very heavy pushes [TS]

01:18:47   towards subscribing to Apple music [TS]

01:18:48   that's going to be a big one and I think [TS]

01:18:50   iCloud Drive or just iCloud storage is [TS]

01:18:53   going to be one of those things too I [TS]

01:18:54   basically my theory is that within [TS]

01:18:58   probably the next few years Apple wants [TS]

01:19:00   to try to make it so that using an [TS]

01:19:03   iPhone or Mac or any Apple device [TS]

01:19:05   without having a decent amount of iCloud [TS]

01:19:08   storage space that you're paying for [TS]

01:19:10   every month should feel like using it [TS]

01:19:12   without an Apple ID but there should be [TS]

01:19:14   like all this stuff that you're missing [TS]

01:19:16   out on by not paying Apple five or ten [TS]

01:19:18   bucks a month for this additional [TS]

01:19:20   storage that's where I think they want [TS]

01:19:22   to push this and I think they will and [TS]

01:19:23   it's not like purely cynical there's [TS]

01:19:25   lots of great things they can offer once [TS]

01:19:27   you do that but I do think there's [TS]

01:19:29   certainly a big motivation there to [TS]

01:19:32   increase that services revenue and [TS]

01:19:34   that's going to be one of the ways they [TS]

01:19:35   do it that happens to correspond to [TS]

01:19:37   things that are also nice for users my [TS]

01:19:40   stretch hope and dream for Mac OS before [TS]

01:19:42   we leave this topic is that I left [TS]

01:19:45   thinking about this but announcement of [TS]

01:19:49   vastly improved 3d API support whether [TS]

01:19:51   that be OpenGL Vulcan or whatever like [TS]

01:19:54   an inexplicable announcement because [TS]

01:19:55   they wouldn't have any hardware [TS]

01:19:56   associated with it be like why alright [TS]

01:19:58   that's great but [TS]

01:20:00   like non-games on a Mac and all your [TS]

01:20:01   GPUs are really weak why are you [TS]

01:20:03   doubting your improved OpenGL support [TS]

01:20:06   like that you're caught up with the spec [TS]

01:20:07   and that you're like and we would know [TS]

01:20:10   the answer is like this another shoe [TS]

01:20:11   that's gonna drop it it's called the Mac [TS]

01:20:12   Pro that they're going to make someday [TS]

01:20:13   and maybe it'll have awesome GPUs right [TS]

01:20:15   no not DirectX for mac OS blah more in [TS]

01:20:18   the chat if it I would be excited by [TS]

01:20:21   that because it's an area where they are [TS]

01:20:23   super behind and they've been paying [TS]

01:20:25   attention to metal and you know like I [TS]

01:20:28   don't I don't know that's I don't [TS]

01:20:30   predict it but I would I would be super [TS]

01:20:33   excited by that so I have a couple of [TS]

01:20:36   stretch goals I mean first of all we [TS]

01:20:37   should before we leave the the more [TS]

01:20:39   plausible section we should also cover [TS]

01:20:41   that I think the rumored iPad pro [TS]

01:20:45   drawing tablet mode is realistic [TS]

01:20:49   implausible for this year's release the [TS]

01:20:51   loving that in with Mac OS instead of [TS]

01:20:53   the iPad I suppose yeah it's really a [TS]

01:20:55   Mac OS feature the the idea behind this [TS]

01:20:57   feature as rumored is that the is that [TS]

01:21:00   an iPad pro with a pencil could be [TS]

01:21:03   attached and some I don't know if it's [TS]

01:21:05   only going to be working over a wire or [TS]

01:21:06   whether they can do it wirelessly but [TS]

01:21:08   they are wirelessly hopefully but [TS]

01:21:11   basically that can enter a mode where a [TS]

01:21:13   Mac app can use the iPad and it's pencil [TS]

01:21:16   as a stylus surface of some kind and we [TS]

01:21:20   don't really know anything more than [TS]

01:21:21   that or whether this is even in for this [TS]

01:21:23   year or not but I think the way they [TS]

01:21:26   would probably do this if they're going [TS]

01:21:28   to do this would not just be that it [TS]

01:21:30   would be like a second screen that you [TS]

01:21:33   could just move windows on to no I think [TS]

01:21:35   it would be more like the way they to [TS]

01:21:37   the touch bar which is it would be a [TS]

01:21:39   separate type of output display slash [TS]

01:21:43   input display that apps would have to [TS]

01:21:45   specifically write support for so they [TS]

01:21:47   would specifically say like what would [TS]

01:21:49   be shown on it and specifically receive [TS]

01:21:52   the events from the pencil from it so it [TS]

01:21:55   would if they do it that way I think [TS]

01:21:57   it's a much nicer feature I think it's [TS]

01:21:58   it's better it and it would have slower [TS]

01:22:00   adoption if you have to wait for all the [TS]

01:22:02   apps that that could benefit from this [TS]

01:22:03   to integrate this this potential new API [TS]

01:22:07   you know just just like the tux bar but [TS]

01:22:09   I think that that if that works out that [TS]

01:22:11   could be a way better way to do it [TS]

01:22:14   and that's probably the way that they [TS]

01:22:15   would do such a feature yeah like [TS]

01:22:17   everyone comes talking about it as the [TS]

01:22:19   the the single phrase for this feature [TS]

01:22:21   is oh you can use your iPad as a Cintiq [TS]

01:22:23   but a Cintiq behaves as essentially a [TS]

01:22:26   monitor that you can draw and like it [TS]

01:22:27   appears as a second monitor you can [TS]

01:22:29   arrange it with the other monitor the [TS]

01:22:30   full UI of your mat can be there you can [TS]

01:22:32   drag the little menu bar down to it so [TS]

01:22:33   that is actually your primary display [TS]

01:22:36   but that's not how you just described [TS]

01:22:39   the this feature working on the iPad [TS]

01:22:41   that it wouldn't just because there are [TS]

01:22:42   apps now you can get for your iPad to do [TS]

01:22:44   this like Oh your iPad is a second [TS]

01:22:45   screen from your Mac and now you can [TS]

01:22:47   draw in your drawing app with a with the [TS]

01:22:48   stylus because of course it's the second [TS]

01:22:50   screen you have input this seems like a [TS]

01:22:52   more tart the rumors of a more targeted [TS]

01:22:55   interface like you said like the touch [TS]

01:22:56   bar that is it specifically addressable [TS]

01:22:58   by the applications it is not just like [TS]

01:22:59   hey every application gets us free [TS]

01:23:01   because it's just a second small screen [TS]

01:23:02   which they could also do as a mode or [TS]

01:23:05   whatever but to really to leverage there [TS]

01:23:08   the capabilities of the you know the [TS]

01:23:11   high refresh rate and the stylus input [TS]

01:23:14   and all that stuff it seems to me that [TS]

01:23:15   it has better solution to have apps [TS]

01:23:19   support it specifically in the same way [TS]

01:23:21   the support touch bar to be able to draw [TS]

01:23:23   a UI over there and to be able to have [TS]

01:23:25   the iPad handle a lot of the drawing you [TS]

01:23:29   know the the local drawing to make it as [TS]

01:23:32   responsive as we know the pencil can be [TS]

01:23:34   in in the good applications having that [TS]

01:23:36   collaborate with the mac app and and it [TS]

01:23:38   could be good and it will make people's [TS]

01:23:40   iPads you know more powerful and capable [TS]

01:23:42   but not that I'm going to say this [TS]

01:23:45   reminds me of the old world but I think [TS]

01:23:48   of that arrangement and it seems cool [TS]

01:23:50   and useful and a great way to leverage [TS]

01:23:52   Apple's existing hardware with the [TS]

01:23:53   clever software solution but then I [TS]

01:23:54   think of the Microsoft Surface Studio [TS]

01:23:56   sitting over there kind of glaring at me [TS]

01:23:58   gone you know tapping its fingers going [TS]

01:24:00   you know hello guys I don't know what [TS]

01:24:04   you're doing over there with your [TS]

01:24:05   multiple devices and your steampunk [TS]

01:24:06   Windows But Here I am a giant screen [TS]

01:24:09   touch me drawn me and put me up now [TS]

01:24:12   anyway yeah I don't understand why this [TS]

01:24:16   is something that people want like I [TS]

01:24:19   mean for like artists and stuff I guess [TS]

01:24:20   but why would a regular Schmo want their [TS]

01:24:23   iPad Pro is like a Wacom tablet for [TS]

01:24:26   their can [TS]

01:24:27   yeah as far dhis but it mean in this way [TS]

01:24:31   we're describing it yes totally for [TS]

01:24:33   artists because Cintiq s-- are super [TS]

01:24:34   expensive and i have one they're not [TS]

01:24:37   that great like they're they're okay if [TS]

01:24:40   you already have an ipad with a stylus [TS]

01:24:43   and you like drawing on it but you also [TS]

01:24:45   like adobe illustrator the full version [TS]

01:24:47   of which does not or you know photoshop [TS]

01:24:49   whatever doesn't ship for iOS just these [TS]

01:24:52   cut-down versions this is interesting [TS]

01:24:53   solution to interesting solution to the [TS]

01:24:55   pro app problem to get more people to [TS]

01:24:57   buy iPads to use with their macs that [TS]

01:24:58   they might buy anyway but this pushes [TS]

01:24:59   them over the edge i because if it [TS]

01:25:02   doesn't work as a second monitor or like [TS]

01:25:03   a Cintiq i don't see people buying it as [TS]

01:25:06   a way to use your Mac through a stylus [TS]

01:25:08   and again they're there iOS apps you can [TS]

01:25:10   buy today to remotely use your Mac to [TS]

01:25:13   use your iPad as a second screen to use [TS]

01:25:14   your iPads as a you know as a Cintiq [TS]

01:25:17   like device for your Mac presumably when [TS]

01:25:21   Apple influenced that they will do it a [TS]

01:25:22   better job because they have you know [TS]

01:25:24   low-level access to all of that good [TS]

01:25:25   stuff and so that's what people are [TS]

01:25:26   waiting for it is narrow but like in [TS]

01:25:29   terms of you know the the potential [TS]

01:25:32   slash promised focus on pros both with [TS]

01:25:36   iOS 11 and making iOS more capable on [TS]

01:25:39   the big iPads and the Mac Pro this seems [TS]

01:25:42   like a move that is aimed towards [TS]

01:25:44   creative pros and app developers who [TS]

01:25:45   think they can make a cool application [TS]

01:25:47   with this capability and think they can [TS]

01:25:49   sell it for a fair price on the App [TS]

01:25:50   Store just seems to me like it would be [TS]

01:25:53   a lot of investment for not a lot of [TS]

01:25:54   return I don't know maybe I'm missing [TS]

01:25:57   the boat not that much investment though [TS]

01:25:58   like I said I feel like they're almost [TS]

01:26:00   there with the implements a third [TS]

01:26:02   parties can do it the plumbing must be [TS]

01:26:03   there Apple's just going to do the [TS]

01:26:05   better lower latency job of it and have [TS]

01:26:08   an opinion about how it should be done [TS]

01:26:10   you know in terms of api's and stuff [TS]

01:26:12   like it I think it could be really cool [TS]

01:26:13   too I mean if you think about you know [TS]

01:26:15   obviously there's lots of artistic uses [TS]

01:26:17   for this and you know but and I wouldn't [TS]

01:26:19   use any oh you want to use that audio I [TS]

01:26:22   see it coming well I obviously I would [TS]

01:26:24   consider I would try that but I think [TS]

01:26:26   there's a lot of areas of common tasks [TS]

01:26:29   that people do that could benefit from [TS]

01:26:32   being able to quickly alternate between [TS]

01:26:35   pen input especially really good pen [TS]

01:26:38   input like this like like the iPad pro [TS]

01:26:40   good pen input and also a keyboard a [TS]

01:26:42   mouse and all and to be able to kind of [TS]

01:26:45   alternate between like you know having [TS]

01:26:47   having that incredibly awesome pen thing [TS]

01:26:49   that only has been available directly in [TS]

01:26:52   iOS so far but also integrated with Mac [TS]

01:26:55   workflows that could that could apply to [TS]

01:26:57   lots of things that could that could be [TS]

01:26:58   as simple as like if I'm working in [TS]

01:27:01   Apple notes which I really like notes [TS]

01:27:03   I've been using it more and more and I [TS]

01:27:06   did have one problem a couple months ago [TS]

01:27:08   where like one device just wouldn't sink [TS]

01:27:10   and it just was stuck for a long time [TS]

01:27:12   and I tried a bunch of crap and [TS]

01:27:13   eventually I started sinking again and [TS]

01:27:15   I've heard a few other people who have [TS]

01:27:17   had similar problems some that's a [TS]

01:27:18   little concerning I hope I could work [TS]

01:27:20   her up a note that you must hunt down [TS]

01:27:21   and expunge right exactly yes who knows [TS]

01:27:24   but but like one of the things notes has [TS]

01:27:26   is you can integrate doodles and [TS]

01:27:28   drawings with the pencil and everything [TS]

01:27:30   and so like it right now if I want a [TS]

01:27:32   note to contain a drawing I have to go [TS]

01:27:34   over to my iPad and add there and that [TS]

01:27:37   but it's like if I'm working on my Mac [TS]

01:27:39   that's kind of not convenient but if I [TS]

01:27:41   was working you know in if I had this [TS]

01:27:45   that and my iPad was on my desk I could [TS]

01:27:47   just like reach over doodle something [TS]

01:27:49   and then just put my hands right back on [TS]

01:27:51   the mat keyboard and go right back to [TS]

01:27:52   work on the Mac not have to wait for a [TS]

01:27:54   sync to happen but up and down to the [TS]

01:27:55   cloud and everything like I'd be I'd be [TS]

01:27:56   working in the document right here you [TS]

01:27:58   know stuff like that I think there's a [TS]

01:28:00   lot of potential workflows you know [TS]

01:28:02   whether it's basic things like doodling [TS]

01:28:04   or annotation marking up documents [TS]

01:28:06   there's so many different things that [TS]

01:28:08   aren't just like freehand drawing and [TS]

01:28:10   Photoshop where this could be really [TS]

01:28:12   helpful not to mention the freehand [TS]

01:28:14   drawing on Photoshop or even things like [TS]

01:28:16   like if you're drawing something in [TS]

01:28:18   Illustrator you know in a vector program [TS]

01:28:20   where you're doing less freehand stuff [TS]

01:28:22   and more kind of like drawing with with [TS]

01:28:24   math and parameters but you do want to [TS]

01:28:26   add a freehand element to something it's [TS]

01:28:28   easy to just add that and then go back [TS]

01:28:30   to your keyboard and mouse for all the [TS]

01:28:31   precise stuff you know so that I think [TS]

01:28:33   there's and this all might not happen [TS]

01:28:35   because this all depends on lots of good [TS]

01:28:38   high-quality third-party integration [TS]

01:28:40   happening and that's always a crapshoot [TS]

01:28:42   you never know what developers will take [TS]

01:28:44   advantage of and how soon and how well [TS]

01:28:46   but there's a lot of potential for this [TS]

01:28:49   kind of feature so if it isn't a massive [TS]

01:28:52   deal for Apple to add this if it's not [TS]

01:28:53   like [TS]

01:28:54   a huge three-year undertaking where they [TS]

01:28:56   can do nothing else this would be nice [TS]

01:28:58   to have yes and it's something that that [TS]

01:28:59   you know it I think features that can [TS]

01:29:04   really change the way people work on the [TS]

01:29:06   Mac are hard to come by these days so I [TS]

01:29:09   think when they come behind them there's [TS]

01:29:10   there's actually a decent chance you [TS]

01:29:12   know that as long as there's not massive [TS]

01:29:14   downsides they actually might consider [TS]

01:29:16   doing them so this I consider plausible [TS]

01:29:19   and if they assume you know if they [TS]

01:29:20   actually do it I think it could be [TS]

01:29:22   really cool I haven't had a good Adobe [TS]

01:29:25   Mac app demo it keynote in a really long [TS]

01:29:28   time that's the old world gonna be nice [TS]

01:29:29   to come back and I'm back to the old [TS]

01:29:31   days and have have a Photoshop demo on a [TS]

01:29:33   Mac granted with an iOS device fine yeah [TS]

01:29:36   okay win some you lose I should run some [TS]

01:29:39   filters and time them now I do have to [TS]

01:29:42   stretch goals you had one for the Mac I [TS]

01:29:44   have to because it goes back to my [TS]

01:29:46   earlier question of like I don't know [TS]

01:29:48   how much effort they put into the Mac [TS]

01:29:50   this year like if they put in a good [TS]

01:29:52   amount these are actually kind of [TS]

01:29:54   plausible but that's you know with the [TS]

01:29:57   Mac you never really know whether it's [TS]

01:29:58   gonna be a not even a big year a [TS]

01:30:00   medium-sized year or a small year let's [TS]

01:30:03   be honest and so I think my number one [TS]

01:30:06   stretch goal is the beginning of the [TS]

01:30:10   iTunes replacement now I'm not sure [TS]

01:30:12   greedy I know yeah I'm not sure it would [TS]

01:30:15   be complete in one pass it would [TS]

01:30:18   probably not be but I'm thinking we [TS]

01:30:21   would probably start seeing apps with [TS]

01:30:24   new names uh that like that you know [TS]

01:30:27   maybe the idea of the iTunes yeah that [TS]

01:30:29   the iTunes app would still exist but it [TS]

01:30:32   would be like in utilities or you know [TS]

01:30:33   buried somewhere and then so like if you [TS]

01:30:36   plugged in an iPod okay you here's your [TS]

01:30:38   ancient app for your ancient device that [TS]

01:30:40   would be the iPod a second app called [TS]

01:30:42   iPhone yeah the worst yeah but uh I [TS]

01:30:46   think it's plausible this year not I I [TS]

01:30:49   wouldn't say likely but plausible that [TS]

01:30:52   we have an Apple music app on the Mac [TS]

01:30:54   and what that is is up in the air that [TS]

01:30:57   could be they could literally be like as [TS]

01:31:01   the first version it could be a fork and [TS]

01:31:03   rename of iTunes with just the music [TS]

01:31:05   stuff enabled and everything else [TS]

01:31:06   stripped out and mask everything out all [TS]

01:31:08   the [TS]

01:31:08   code is still there the preference [TS]

01:31:09   dialogue is still motile but yeah it's [TS]

01:31:11   just about music it's an if deaf at the [TS]

01:31:13   top so it could be as simple as that or [TS]

01:31:17   it could be a total from scratch app [TS]

01:31:20   that only does Apple music so it would [TS]

01:31:22   only have the app music streaming [TS]

01:31:24   service it would not have local library [TS]

01:31:26   playback or even the iTunes Store [TS]

01:31:29   because that's not Apple music that's [TS]

01:31:30   different and there's a report of the [TS]

01:31:32   iOS Apple music app don't forget that [TS]

01:31:33   who use UX kit for everything right it's [TS]

01:31:35   like motor was all over again honestly [TS]

01:31:37   that I had on my list I had because the [TS]

01:31:40   flick because if you think about it like [TS]

01:31:41   you know one of the reasons why why it [TS]

01:31:44   would be hard to do this all in one year [TS]

01:31:45   is that if they don't want to just be [TS]

01:31:48   Apple music if they want it to be Apple [TS]

01:31:51   music plus local library support plus [TS]

01:31:54   store support they would probably do one [TS]

01:31:56   of those weird like iOS port kind of [TS]

01:31:58   apps to the Mac where it would be kind [TS]

01:32:00   of weirdly iOS see maybe it would use us [TS]

01:32:03   cater maybe it would use its own version [TS]

01:32:05   of that because that might be for that [TS]

01:32:06   for the photos team who knows it would [TS]

01:32:08   be weirdly limited it wouldn't feel very [TS]

01:32:09   Mac like but you know it could be an [TS]

01:32:12   apple music app and I think that goes [TS]

01:32:14   along with you know obviously they've [TS]

01:32:15   had like a video app or a TV for the Mac [TS]

01:32:18   they'd have the TV app obviously uh I [TS]

01:32:20   don't think of that anyway and then also [TS]

01:32:22   the Apple the iTunes podcasts were [TS]

01:32:25   recently renamed to Apple podcasts so [TS]

01:32:27   maybe there'd be an Apple podcast app on [TS]

01:32:29   the Mac so this stuff this stuff all [TS]

01:32:32   makes sense like this it's very [TS]

01:32:34   aggressive to have all this you know [TS]

01:32:35   plan for this year which is why this was [TS]

01:32:37   like my stretch goal I don't I don't [TS]

01:32:39   again I wouldn't say it's likely but I [TS]

01:32:41   do think it's plausible and I do think [TS]

01:32:44   that it is it is something they will get [TS]

01:32:47   to I just don't know when sometimes I [TS]

01:32:49   think about the sort of concentrated [TS]

01:32:53   political capital that must be in the [TS]

01:32:55   iTunes Team app is that like there's got [TS]

01:32:59   to be a lot of important people [TS]

01:33:00   associated with their product at the [TS]

01:33:02   high and low levels at various times in [TS]

01:33:04   Apple's history it was arguably the most [TS]

01:33:06   important product that Apple was [TS]

01:33:08   currently making it ever made like a [TS]

01:33:10   heyday of the iPod and everything like [TS]

01:33:11   iTunes was where it was all happening [TS]

01:33:13   and that it it managed to hitch a ride [TS]

01:33:15   on the iPhone rocket a little bit but [TS]

01:33:18   like the fact that it has remained so [TS]

01:33:19   long and that every year it gets these [TS]

01:33:22   it gets so much more attention than than [TS]

01:33:26   the improvements that are actually made [TS]

01:33:28   by this attention seem to warrant like [TS]

01:33:29   year after year oh we've moved stuff [TS]

01:33:31   around and we've changed the UI but [TS]

01:33:32   fundamentally have not fixed this [TS]

01:33:34   application it's like there must be [TS]

01:33:35   people working on it and every year they [TS]

01:33:38   have new things that they do and you [TS]

01:33:40   know everything like not small things [TS]

01:33:43   they have big new ideas about how the UI [TS]

01:33:45   can be different and apparently this [TS]

01:33:46   year they think the mini players should [TS]

01:33:47   be not so many anymore and it's just [TS]

01:33:49   always something but the preference [TS]

01:33:51   dialogue is still modal and it's still [TS]

01:33:52   old iTunes you just like but what is [TS]

01:33:55   there must be such a concentration of [TS]

01:33:57   power there that they that that like at [TS]

01:34:00   power and like the power to make these [TS]

01:34:02   people continue to add features combined [TS]

01:34:05   with the neglect to say we don't care [TS]

01:34:06   enough to make you do all those things [TS]

01:34:07   that marketers have said that are [TS]

01:34:09   inevitable but like we always wait for [TS]

01:34:11   the first one to come so the only one of [TS]

01:34:13   those things I believe is that an Apple [TS]

01:34:15   music app is the closest to not being a [TS]

01:34:17   stretch goal but all those other things [TS]

01:34:19   like I don't I don't even know well you [TS]

01:34:22   know it's it's I don't really understand [TS]

01:34:25   how we could have somebody with a media [TS]

01:34:29   app or a group of people with media pay [TS]

01:34:31   so little attention to the Mac after [TS]

01:34:33   years imagine imagine being in a [TS]

01:34:35   position where you you have a media app [TS]

01:34:37   and you just completely ignore the Mac I [TS]

01:34:39   mean Marco how could one ever get in [TS]

01:34:42   that position what would what would [TS]

01:34:43   their their headspace have to be to just [TS]

01:34:46   completely neglect the Mac for a media [TS]

01:34:49   based Apple has people who know Africa [TS]

01:34:51   though like that is key like that I clap [TS]

01:34:54   kid I'm scared it's not like you I kid [TS]

01:34:56   you could have stopped that sentence [TS]

01:34:57   that Apple has people yeah Apple has a [TS]

01:35:01   staff of more than one developer but [TS]

01:35:03   haven't you heard you can charge way [TS]

01:35:04   more for your Mac app oh yeah yeah once [TS]

01:35:08   you ask the other Mac podcast players [TS]

01:35:09   how well they're doing booming Marty see [TS]

01:35:13   what that case you will have to pull a [TS]

01:35:14   Twitter if ik for the Mac and just you [TS]

01:35:16   know spend an obscene amount of money [TS]

01:35:17   for his copy yeah well just be told I [TS]

01:35:20   actually don't really need it as much [TS]

01:35:22   anymore because I've just been using my [TS]

01:35:24   air pods to connect to whatever device I [TS]

01:35:26   need to connect to so when I listen to [TS]

01:35:27   podcasts I connect to my phone but in [TS]

01:35:29   principle we have to all agree that [TS]

01:35:33   there is some amount of humor to mark [TS]

01:35:35   lamenting iTunes as overcast for the Mac [TS]

01:35:38   is simply a URL not much because again [TS]

01:35:40   Marco is not the world's largest [TS]

01:35:42   corporation so that in mind they're fair [TS]

01:35:45   now if you want to talk about stretch [TS]

01:35:47   goals I have the mother of all stretch [TS]

01:35:49   goals this this is probably a macro know [TS]

01:35:52   this I think I think the Mac Pro being [TS]

01:35:55   released is more likely than this but I [TS]

01:35:58   have it on here she's going to get a [TS]

01:35:59   realm of fantasy now my number two [TS]

01:36:02   stretch goal my final stretch goal for [TS]

01:36:04   Mac OS is significant improvements to [TS]

01:36:07   the Mac App Store and sandbox ok here's [TS]

01:36:18   okay although ok so just brief [TS]

01:36:21   background so both the Mac App Store and [TS]

01:36:25   sandboxing launched in 2011 it was I had [TS]

01:36:28   to look it up to so long ago 2011 they [TS]

01:36:30   had a ton of shortcomings it was really [TS]

01:36:33   like a they were both this both the App [TS]

01:36:35   Store and sandboxing were really very [TS]

01:36:38   very rough one-point O's and they have [TS]

01:36:42   been completely untouched since they [TS]

01:36:46   have been a rough 1.0 for 6 years and [TS]

01:36:50   and so I actually did hear rumblings of [TS]

01:36:55   what little while back that there was an [TS]

01:36:57   effort to actually rewrite the Mac App [TS]

01:37:00   Store app and to really improve it and [TS]

01:37:01   we've seen you know ever since Phil took [TS]

01:37:05   over the App Store there really has been [TS]

01:37:07   substantial progress and there were some [TS]

01:37:09   before that but they like now there's a [TS]

01:37:11   lot of progress in the App Store's and I [TS]

01:37:14   still think this is a very long shot for [TS]

01:37:16   this year I do think it is probably [TS]

01:37:19   finally on the roadmap I think somebody [TS]

01:37:20   is finally working on this the only [TS]

01:37:22   question is when it comes out are they [TS]

01:37:24   racing the iTunes replacement team those [TS]

01:37:25   two teams I mean honestly the Mac App [TS]

01:37:29   star has a long way to go before it [TS]

01:37:31   before it earns the stripes that iTunes [TS]

01:37:32   have in terms of being the crusty old [TS]

01:37:34   application that you can't get rid of on [TS]

01:37:36   the system because it's essential but [TS]

01:37:37   that is I mean I groves I guess iTunes [TS]

01:37:39   doesn't prove like I left before but [TS]

01:37:42   does it I think I think I mean the Mac [TS]

01:37:44   App Store app has been improved in ways [TS]

01:37:46   that are not visible to users like I [TS]

01:37:48   believe [TS]

01:37:49   they have addressed reliability under [TS]

01:37:50   the covers to make it not as awful as it [TS]

01:37:52   was they haven't I mean it is it is [TS]

01:37:55   still buggy [TS]

01:37:56   I totally granted that but I have to [TS]

01:37:58   think that there has even if it's just [TS]

01:38:00   messing with the demons that are [TS]

01:38:01   underlying the thing because the Mac App [TS]

01:38:03   Store is this strange application like [TS]

01:38:05   so many of these cloud powered things [TS]

01:38:06   where it's it's really just a thin a [TS]

01:38:08   partially web-based UI on top of a bunch [TS]

01:38:12   of persistent processes that are running [TS]

01:38:13   whether the App Store is launched or not [TS]

01:38:15   which is why you can click the update' [TS]

01:38:16   thing to update your things or install [TS]

01:38:18   an application then quit the Mac App [TS]

01:38:19   Store app and your installation proceeds [TS]

01:38:21   because it's not your app it's doing [TS]

01:38:22   it's just communicating to background [TS]

01:38:23   daemons and I feel like that also why [TS]

01:38:25   you click that update button just [TS]

01:38:27   nothing happens yeah well it's just [TS]

01:38:29   rejection happens right if but I think [TS]

01:38:32   the reliability of actually [TS]

01:38:33   communicating to the background daemons [TS]

01:38:34   and telling them to do their thing has [TS]

01:38:36   improved over time but I think it is [TS]

01:38:37   plausible for them to do a do an iTunes [TS]

01:38:42   style refresh where you aren't [TS]

01:38:43   fundamentally changing the nature of the [TS]

01:38:45   application in any way but you moved a [TS]

01:38:47   bunch of crap around and recolored some [TS]

01:38:48   things right or maybe you add tab [TS]

01:38:50   support and just say look significant [TS]

01:38:52   improvements the Mac App Store which I [TS]

01:38:53   think does not fall into the category of [TS]

01:38:55   significant as far as I'm concerned [TS]

01:38:56   because like I said it's an iTunes I'll [TS]

01:38:58   update where it visually looks different [TS]

01:39:00   people think it's the new Mac App Store [TS]

01:39:01   but fundamentally it is still the same [TS]

01:39:04   demons and the same weird web base you [TS]

01:39:06   are communicating with it and they just [TS]

01:39:07   added tab bar support or some crap like [TS]

01:39:09   that I could see them doing that but I I [TS]

01:39:13   am 100% willing to believe that the [TS]

01:39:15   project is is under way somewhere to [TS]

01:39:17   massively improve the Mac App Store by [TS]

01:39:20   making a new application with the same [TS]

01:39:22   name that works way better I'm sure it's [TS]

01:39:26   in progress but I will be flabbergasted [TS]

01:39:29   if we see it this year I thought like my [TS]

01:39:31   open jail thing is even more far-fetched [TS]

01:39:32   though probably yes we were sponsored [TS]

01:39:36   this week by Casper an obsessively [TS]

01:39:39   engineered mattress at a shockingly fair [TS]

01:39:40   price go to Casper comm slash ATP and [TS]

01:39:43   use code ATP for 50 dollars towards your [TS]

01:39:46   mattress the mattress industry has for [TS]

01:39:50   so long force people to pay ridiculous [TS]

01:39:52   markups for mattresses that you can you [TS]

01:39:54   know lie on for five minutes at a [TS]

01:39:56   mattress store and then you know pay [TS]

01:39:58   extra to have it shipped to your house [TS]

01:39:59   and everything and then you're pretty [TS]

01:40:00   much stuck with it after that [TS]

01:40:02   Kasper has revolutionized all this they [TS]

01:40:04   offer one perfect mattress this is an [TS]

01:40:07   award-winning mattress with over 4.8 [TS]

01:40:10   stars over 20,000 reviews based on a [TS]

01:40:13   Casper Amazon and Google reviews so far [TS]

01:40:15   this is quickly becoming the Internet's [TS]

01:40:17   favorite mattress and here's why it has [TS]

01:40:20   a remarkably small box so it's very [TS]

01:40:22   practical to get you can get it up [TS]

01:40:24   narrow stairs if you if you need to and [TS]

01:40:26   they of course also offer adaptive [TS]

01:40:28   pillows and soft breathable sheets if [TS]

01:40:30   you want those and this mattress the the [TS]

01:40:33   in-house engineers at Casper spent [TS]

01:40:35   thousands of hours developing it with [TS]

01:40:37   supportive memory foams for a sleep [TS]

01:40:39   service with just the right sink and [TS]

01:40:41   just the right bounce and a breathable [TS]

01:40:43   design to sleep cool throughout the [TS]

01:40:45   night and people love it too because not [TS]

01:40:48   only is it comfortable but it's [TS]

01:40:50   completely risk-free they have free [TS]

01:40:53   delivery and free returns with a 100 [TS]

01:40:56   night home trial if you don't love it [TS]

01:40:57   within a hundred nights it's over three [TS]

01:41:00   months of sleeping on it they will [TS]

01:41:02   refund you completely and arrange for it [TS]

01:41:04   to be picked up at your house they [TS]

01:41:06   understand the importance of actually [TS]

01:41:08   sleeping on it not just for five seconds [TS]

01:41:10   in a store but actually living with it [TS]

01:41:12   and sleeping with it and seeing how it [TS]

01:41:14   works for you because you're gonna be [TS]

01:41:15   spending a third of your life on your [TS]

01:41:16   mattress so I highly suggest you check [TS]

01:41:19   out Casper they have free shipping and [TS]

01:41:20   returns to the US and Canada this is [TS]

01:41:23   designed developed and assembled in the [TS]

01:41:25   USA and you can get $50 towards any [TS]

01:41:28   mattress purchase by visiting Casper [TS]

01:41:30   comm slash ATP and using code ATP terms [TS]

01:41:34   and conditions do apply once again [TS]

01:41:36   Casper comm slash ATP and code ATP for [TS]

01:41:40   $50 towards your mattress thank you very [TS]

01:41:42   much to Casper for sponsoring our show [TS]

01:41:44   ah it's weird because both for iOS Mac [TS]

01:41:50   OS there's nothing I can think of right [TS]

01:41:52   now that I'm like oh man [TS]

01:41:54   I can't imagine them not delivering [TS]

01:41:57   blank I feel like and I think Marco had [TS]

01:42:00   talked about this a lot last year that [TS]

01:42:01   that a lot of the low-hanging fruit has [TS]

01:42:04   been plucked and so at this point like [TS]

01:42:07   what do we really want and what it comes [TS]

01:42:10   down for both for me is more about [TS]

01:42:12   hardware than software and WDC in [TS]

01:42:15   the last few years has not really been a [TS]

01:42:17   hardware event but that being said what [TS]

01:42:20   do we want from max this year and I can [TS]

01:42:22   tell you I want a MacBook adorable [TS]

01:42:26   update that's all I want in the world [TS]

01:42:28   please can I have a MacBook adorable [TS]

01:42:31   update yeah I think the the hardware [TS]

01:42:34   rumors are unusually strong this year [TS]

01:42:36   and usually in in previous years you are [TS]

01:42:39   right that WBC is almost always a no [TS]

01:42:41   Hardware event but usually in previous [TS]

01:42:44   years when the Hardware rumors would [TS]

01:42:46   start up Apple would shut them down with [TS]

01:42:48   a carefully placed controlled leak so [TS]

01:42:51   that there would be some kind of [TS]

01:42:52   reliable report from the Wall Street [TS]

01:42:53   Journal or something like that saying [TS]

01:42:55   there's definitely not going to be new [TS]

01:42:56   hardware announced as they saw for focus [TS]

01:42:58   event and that hasn't happened this year [TS]

01:43:00   there's a lot of hardware noise and [TS]

01:43:02   there's been no denial like that or no [TS]

01:43:05   expectations setting statement like that [TS]

01:43:07   anywhere so I'm guessing that you know [TS]

01:43:09   there is some fire under the smoke the [TS]

01:43:12   only question is which of the hardware [TS]

01:43:14   rumors are actually scheduled to to to [TS]

01:43:18   come out this this time like now instead [TS]

01:43:20   of the fall or some other time [TS]

01:43:22   and and you know Apple schedule-wise I [TS]

01:43:25   don't expect there to be an event in [TS]

01:43:27   mid-july or anything like it's you know [TS]

01:43:29   the hardware is going to either come out [TS]

01:43:30   or it's either going to be announced [TS]

01:43:32   when it ships is a different story [TS]

01:43:33   but it's either going to be announced [TS]

01:43:34   Monday or in September or October you [TS]

01:43:38   know I wouldn't expect anything anything [TS]

01:43:40   in the meantime there so I would say the [TS]

01:43:43   the rumors this time are a little over [TS]

01:43:45   the place it's the rumors basically that [TS]

01:43:48   everything is getting update but the the [TS]

01:43:50   ones the seem most plausible and most [TS]

01:43:52   concentrated are the the pretty much [TS]

01:43:56   every modern MacBook and MacBook Pro so [TS]

01:43:59   the 12-inch and then the the modern [TS]

01:44:02   generation of 13 and 15 inch MacBook [TS]

01:44:04   Pros are all rumored to get KB Lake [TS]

01:44:07   Intel CPU of updates that that would be [TS]

01:44:11   nice it is as far as I know all of these [TS]

01:44:14   parts are available like they're from [TS]

01:44:17   Intel I don't think we're waiting on any [TS]

01:44:18   on any chips being available or anything [TS]

01:44:20   like that I think it is therefore [TS]

01:44:21   plausible for all these things to get [TS]

01:44:24   these these updates there are some [TS]

01:44:26   people who are saying no it's way too [TS]

01:44:27   soon but [TS]

01:44:28   the fact is these all came out in [TS]

01:44:30   October they were already late even then [TS]

01:44:32   and you know going like nine months it [TS]

01:44:36   between updates is not unheard of they [TS]

01:44:39   used to do things like that all the time [TS]

01:44:40   when new CPUs came out faster and Apple [TS]

01:44:43   would get on top of them faster so that [TS]

01:44:45   that is a thing that happens sometimes [TS]

01:44:47   not not often but sometimes so it is [TS]

01:44:49   totally plausible for them to update [TS]

01:44:50   these things so quote soon and if they [TS]

01:44:54   do you know everyone has this like wish [TS]

01:44:57   list of things they want to be changed [TS]

01:45:00   with the new Mac approach with us [TS]

01:45:01   recently so I won't go too far into it [TS]

01:45:02   basically I would expect no major [TS]

01:45:07   external changes I wouldn't expect [TS]

01:45:09   different ports or more ports or the [TS]

01:45:12   return of an SD card reader or anything [TS]

01:45:14   that people want that was removed I [TS]

01:45:16   would not expect any external changes [TS]

01:45:18   whatsoever if they have revised the [TS]

01:45:21   keyboard to fix the issues that I've [TS]

01:45:23   been complaining about with reliability [TS]

01:45:25   especially with heat I think if they fix [TS]

01:45:28   that they won't say so it'll be a silent [TS]

01:45:29   update the one area that I think they [TS]

01:45:33   might hit like the air the main areas of [TS]

01:45:36   complaints well to one I think it is it [TS]

01:45:40   is possible they will offer a 32 gig ram [TS]

01:45:43   option on the 15 inch even though it [TS]

01:45:46   would I think it still would need to use [TS]

01:45:48   the higher battery draw Ram [TS]

01:45:50   but I don't think the battery dry like I [TS]

01:45:53   have looked into the defined details of [TS]

01:45:55   this I'm out of time really qualified [TS]

01:45:56   but the difference between the super low [TS]

01:45:58   power ram and the kind of low-power ram [TS]

01:46:00   would probably only make maybe like a 5% [TS]

01:46:04   difference to battery life off the top [TS]

01:46:05   of my head like that's probably that's [TS]

01:46:07   probably the ballpark we're talking [TS]

01:46:08   about here and it it is it makes total [TS]

01:46:11   sense why Apple would not want that to [TS]

01:46:13   be on all of the MacBook Pros of a [TS]

01:46:15   certain size but it would not surprise [TS]

01:46:18   me at all if they have that as an option [TS]

01:46:20   so like if you want to trade 5% of your [TS]

01:46:23   battery life for 32 gigs of ram fine you [TS]

01:46:25   know that's that's within the realm of [TS]

01:46:27   Apple component options they've offered [TS]

01:46:29   before that's within the realm of [TS]

01:46:31   different CPU options or things like [TS]

01:46:34   whether you get the discrete GPU or it [TS]

01:46:38   or integrated only on certain models [TS]

01:46:40   that use offer that would be great if [TS]

01:46:41   they come by [TS]

01:46:42   9:32 get Graham option with the option [TS]

01:46:44   for for no discrete GPU I don't think [TS]

01:46:46   they will but that would be a way to [TS]

01:46:47   offset it maybe in future of models [TS]

01:46:49   right and that's one thing too I also do [TS]

01:46:51   think I think are the GPUs in KB like [TS]

01:46:54   powerful enough to do an integrated only [TS]

01:46:57   15-inch now I know because with skylake [TS]

01:46:59   there was a thing we're basically like [TS]

01:47:01   yeah Intel's integrated GPUs for that [TS]

01:47:02   generation sucked and so they were [TS]

01:47:04   appleton probably won't think they were [TS]

01:47:05   good enough I think KB like they've [TS]

01:47:07   improved them and so it would so one of [TS]

01:47:09   the biggest complaints about the new map [TS]

01:47:11   of pros is that they've been more [TS]

01:47:13   expensive in the old ones so I think [TS]

01:47:15   Apple will try to address this in some [TS]

01:47:17   small way with not necessarily price [TS]

01:47:20   drops but lower SPECT entry prices for [TS]

01:47:23   things so the 15-inch would probably be [TS]

01:47:27   the first one to get such a thing maybe [TS]

01:47:28   even the only one to get a meaningful [TS]

01:47:30   lower price but maybe they could do a [TS]

01:47:33   discrete or sorry an integrated GPU only [TS]

01:47:36   15-inch like they used to do before [TS]

01:47:37   which I've always been a big fan of [TS]

01:47:39   because the battery life is usually [TS]

01:47:40   substantially better and more consistent [TS]

01:47:42   and more controllable and so integrated [TS]

01:47:45   only 15-inch I do not expect a touch bar [TS]

01:47:49   less like 15-inch escape I don't expect [TS]

01:47:51   that at all [TS]

01:47:52   maybe maybe later like in a couple years [TS]

01:47:54   probably not soon but I do think having [TS]

01:47:58   a cheaper entry level configuration is [TS]

01:48:01   likely probably I GPU only and then also [TS]

01:48:05   a 32 gig option on the high end and with [TS]

01:48:08   no other changes to the lineup I suspect [TS]

01:48:11   that will address a lot of people's [TS]

01:48:13   concerns it'll it'll really turn around [TS]

01:48:15   the discussion on these on whether [TS]

01:48:17   they're pro or not if anyone still [TS]

01:48:18   having the discussion like I think Apple [TS]

01:48:19   wanted to hit that and I think they I [TS]

01:48:21   think they will in these two ways if it [TS]

01:48:23   it might have good PR but looking at [TS]

01:48:27   those actual changes I think they [TS]

01:48:29   actually don't address that many of the [TS]

01:48:32   problems because it's like it's [TS]

01:48:33   perception like oh we'll lower the entry [TS]

01:48:35   price but if you get the 15-inch MacBook [TS]

01:48:38   Pro you want it's still really expensive [TS]

01:48:40   and will add 32 gigs of ram but it's not [TS]

01:48:43   like we're making things that are adding [TS]

01:48:44   more battery so you're sacrificing for [TS]

01:48:46   it and you still have to get it read GPU [TS]

01:48:47   like it is it is superficially making [TS]

01:48:50   changes in the direction that people [TS]

01:48:52   want but it doesn't fundamentally change [TS]

01:48:54   the trade-offs of these [TS]

01:48:56   means make it just kind of it's like [TS]

01:48:58   better pressed except for the 32 which [TS]

01:49:00   is a capability they didn't have before [TS]

01:49:01   and so you know kudos for that like that [TS]

01:49:03   that's that's going to be mostly a win [TS]

01:49:05   but I would still you know I would still [TS]

01:49:09   be awaiting an actual revision that [TS]

01:49:12   reimagines these machines with with the [TS]

01:49:15   new with the new demands of the market [TS]

01:49:17   in mind like with it but what what the [TS]

01:49:19   cranky part of the market has been [TS]

01:49:21   saying about these like make a new set [TS]

01:49:23   of machines that take that into account [TS]

01:49:24   and I and for the MacBook adorable I [TS]

01:49:26   know Casey just wants them to revise it [TS]

01:49:27   and like whatever they revise it and [TS]

01:49:29   he'll get it yeah I'm going to put a 25% [TS]

01:49:32   chance it's not even gonna be a stretch [TS]

01:49:33   oh but I would say like I think it is [TS]

01:49:35   plausible that there can be another USB [TS]

01:49:37   port on that sucker not 50% 25% chance [TS]

01:49:40   because they know it's the thing that [TS]

01:49:43   people want they're gonna do it [TS]

01:49:45   eventually I think this is probably not [TS]

01:49:48   the year to do it it's just like oh [TS]

01:49:49   let's just do an internal swap kay be [TS]

01:49:50   like blah blah blah but yeah just know [TS]

01:49:55   I'm that's that's my that's my mac [TS]

01:49:57   stretc goal aside from the Mac Pro stuff [TS]

01:49:59   which we'll get to in a second that's my [TS]

01:50:00   mac stretc goal that MacBook adorable if [TS]

01:50:03   it's revised third eye [TS]

01:50:05   I have a vision in my head of Phil [TS]

01:50:07   Schiller's understated way that he would [TS]

01:50:09   mention that I wish I could - Phil sure [TS]

01:50:10   like the question would be like and [TS]

01:50:12   we've got another USB port around the [TS]

01:50:14   side they're not nice you know he would [TS]

01:50:17   say that you know he would like [TS]

01:50:18   undersell it right he would he would [TS]

01:50:20   just like go through the slides get me [TS]

01:50:22   not dwell on it too long I'm ready for [TS]

01:50:24   that to happen but Casey will be happy [TS]

01:50:27   no matter what he just wants he just [TS]

01:50:28   wants an internals revision all I want [TS]

01:50:30   is to give up all my money really why is [TS]

01:50:32   that really so exciting when you're like [TS]

01:50:34   yes they came out and we can order them [TS]

01:50:36   and you get them and you key starts [TS]

01:50:37   sticking it'll boy the shows we'll get [TS]

01:50:39   out of that no because I won't be able [TS]

01:50:42   to bring it up I won't be able to bring [TS]

01:50:44   it up because if I do then we're gonna [TS]

01:50:46   tell when you type in chatting there's [TS]

01:50:47   no ease in your text anymore there's [TS]

01:50:49   that if I bring it up then I have to [TS]

01:50:51   admit hashtag marker was right and if we [TS]

01:50:54   know anything about me we know that I [TS]

01:50:56   don't like to do that he doesn't have a [TS]

01:50:57   hashtag he's got a broken keyboard yeah [TS]

01:51:00   there's the hash symbol doesn't work I [TS]

01:51:02   would only say mark was right because my [TS]

01:51:04   Oh key would be stuck down oh my god [TS]

01:51:08   that's a sterically [TS]

01:51:09   quis Marcus yep all right so what about [TS]

01:51:13   the Mac Pro can we just get it over with [TS]

01:51:14   I don't have a drink handy so let's make [TS]

01:51:16   it quick I might take on the Mac Pro is [TS]

01:51:18   they still keep people hearing they go [TS]

01:51:20   they're gonna tease the Mac Pro I was [TS]

01:51:21   like what what can they even do i I [TS]

01:51:23   don't I don't need anything from them [TS]

01:51:25   I'm patient I'm content to wait we [TS]

01:51:27   already had our Mac Pro moment we had [TS]

01:51:28   our shows about it there was a [TS]

01:51:29   roundtable things were discussed [TS]

01:51:31   apologies were made like I think [TS]

01:51:33   everything is fine there if they want to [TS]

01:51:36   tease something get us deciding I'm not [TS]

01:51:37   I'm not you know I'm not a monster I'm [TS]

01:51:39   not I don't object to being teased I [TS]

01:51:41   just have a hard time believing oh my [TS]

01:51:43   goodness I just have a hard time [TS]

01:51:44   believing that there is anything worth [TS]

01:51:47   teasing at this point like the best [TS]

01:51:51   accomplices I have a logo I honestly at [TS]

01:51:53   this point I hope I don't have a case [TS]

01:51:55   design that they can tease I hope they [TS]

01:51:57   haven't finalized that yet because I [TS]

01:51:59   want them to do a really good job like I [TS]

01:52:01   said I'm what I don't want them to rush [TS]

01:52:02   to market with a box with a bunch of [TS]

01:52:04   stuff in it I want it to be cool in all [TS]

01:52:06   the ways that cool mat can be cool and I [TS]

01:52:07   willing to wait a couple extra months [TS]

01:52:09   for that right I have a hard time [TS]

01:52:10   believing they have a case they could [TS]

01:52:11   show hard to believing they would show [TS]

01:52:13   the case I'm Marco pointed out when [TS]

01:52:14   we're talking about this thing and slack [TS]

01:52:16   before I pointed out like well they [TS]

01:52:17   teased the 2013 Mac Pro but I feel like [TS]

01:52:19   that was practically a finished machine [TS]

01:52:20   i granted did a ship for months [TS]

01:52:22   but they knew the design they knew [TS]

01:52:24   everything was going into it like this [TS]

01:52:25   was there was nothing that wasn't like a [TS]

01:52:27   we're going to show you the case design [TS]

01:52:29   of our work in progress like that was [TS]

01:52:31   the sh machine that shipped like those [TS]

01:52:33   everything about it right [TS]

01:52:35   and they're not at that point within my [TS]

01:52:37   prime admin so if they want to show a [TS]

01:52:38   logo and a tone poem kind of video like [TS]

01:52:41   the little dots connecting ios7 things [TS]

01:52:43   they showed 700 times sure but I don't [TS]

01:52:46   expect anything and I won't be mad if I [TS]

01:52:48   get nothing [TS]

01:52:48   yeah I'm with you on on all that [TS]

01:52:50   basically I I really think it's it's [TS]

01:52:54   very very soon to be showing anything [TS]

01:52:56   meaningful it would be nice if they did [TS]

01:52:58   but I would I would put the likelihood [TS]

01:53:00   fairly low on that but I do think that [TS]

01:53:03   it's worth asking about the iMac Pro [TS]

01:53:05   they in that the Mac Pro ahead in the [TS]

01:53:09   Mac section in the notes I had laptops [TS]

01:53:11   none that said desktops ha [TS]

01:53:12   remember at mike's desktops but the iMac [TS]

01:53:16   is overdue for an update and they [TS]

01:53:18   confirmed the existence of pro [TS]

01:53:20   configurations of the iMac during that [TS]

01:53:23   press briefing and and those I believed [TS]

01:53:26   I believe it said those were for this [TS]

01:53:28   year so so the you know the mapper they [TS]

01:53:31   said not this year the iMac I think they [TS]

01:53:33   specifically said this year like item so [TS]

01:53:35   also right and so it's it you know it's [TS]

01:53:38   either now or the fall event basically [TS]

01:53:39   is when these are when these are likely [TS]

01:53:41   to be happening I am still incredibly [TS]

01:53:45   curious to to learn what is a pro [TS]

01:53:49   configuration of an iMac and how does [TS]

01:53:51   that differ from the Mac Pro and like [TS]

01:53:53   how does this product not make either [TS]

01:53:56   the other configuration of the iMac or [TS]

01:53:59   the Mac Pro very redundant [TS]

01:54:01   like where what is this middle ground [TS]

01:54:03   there are things they could do there but [TS]

01:54:06   they're all kind of weird and obscure [TS]

01:54:08   like high end Intel CPUs and maybe like [TS]

01:54:11   one or two Mac Pro features but I'm [TS]

01:54:13   slightly better GPUs like yeah like I [TS]

01:54:16   don't know that's why it's it sounds [TS]

01:54:18   that that's why I'm incredibly curious [TS]

01:54:21   about what the iMac Pro is and and what [TS]

01:54:25   makes it different from the iMac and the [TS]

01:54:27   Mac Pro I think the joke I made and it's [TS]

01:54:29   likely there was pinstripe but now that [TS]

01:54:31   I think about it [TS]

01:54:32   Kasey's matte black iPhone put that [TS]

01:54:34   finish on the iMac make no other changes [TS]

01:54:36   called the iMac Pro people but they're [TS]

01:54:38   your high profile that is possible that [TS]

01:54:41   the IMAX could come out this you know [TS]

01:54:44   this event but I think it feels it's [TS]

01:54:47   weird it feels late for the regular iMac [TS]

01:54:50   but it feels a little early for the iMac [TS]

01:54:52   Pro depending on what they're putting in [TS]

01:54:53   it so I would say that's more likely to [TS]

01:54:56   be pushed to the fall event and and [TS]

01:54:59   there's also there is this rumor that [TS]

01:55:01   the MacBook Air would be updated with no [TS]

01:55:04   changes other than it would get modern [TS]

01:55:07   guts and I think it's unspecified [TS]

01:55:08   whether that means sky like receive a [TS]

01:55:10   low same old TN screen but modern guts [TS]

01:55:13   right and that actually sounds [TS]

01:55:14   incredibly plausible to me because the [TS]

01:55:17   it because Intel at some point is going [TS]

01:55:20   to stop making whatever ancient CPUs it [TS]

01:55:22   has that point is probably soon so [TS]

01:55:24   they're gonna have to stop like like [TS]

01:55:27   they're gonna have to like finally put [TS]

01:55:29   something else in II can that screen [TS]

01:55:32   manufacture stop making that screen [TS]

01:55:33   clean so we can get [TS]

01:55:35   there yeah and and yeah and if if they [TS]

01:55:39   would do such a thing I definitely think [TS]

01:55:41   that I agree with the rest of the [TS]

01:55:44   predictions I've heard which is that it [TS]

01:55:46   will not be mentioned it would it would [TS]

01:55:48   probably it would be barely indicated [TS]

01:55:51   even on the website there there might be [TS]

01:55:53   able yellow new tag on it right yeah at [TS]

01:55:56   best like I think that would be the only [TS]

01:55:58   change like I wouldn't expect a retina I [TS]

01:56:00   wouldn't expect USBC I would expect no [TS]

01:56:02   other modernization of this platform [TS]

01:56:04   except skylight guts or even or KB Lake [TS]

01:56:08   but probably it probably even skylight [TS]

01:56:10   cuz like they don't even want to be too [TS]

01:56:11   modern with what they put it so yeah [TS]

01:56:15   that III would not expect big things [TS]

01:56:18   they're just a very basic update and if [TS]

01:56:20   you are a fan of the ancient macbook air [TS]

01:56:23   platform that actually would be a pretty [TS]

01:56:25   nice computer if you don't care about [TS]

01:56:27   anything modern or retina you know you [TS]

01:56:29   don't have eyes yeah right yeah exactly [TS]

01:56:31   but like like imagine if they don't [TS]

01:56:33   actually change the case size or the [TS]

01:56:36   battery size that's going to get [TS]

01:56:38   incredible battery life yeah that's not [TS]

01:56:41   like it's the danger of that thing the [TS]

01:56:43   longer you keep it around the more [TS]

01:56:44   people realize you know if they just put [TS]

01:56:45   a Retina screen on this thing it would [TS]

01:56:47   be the baby would be Apple's [TS]

01:56:48   best-selling laptop again don't tell [TS]

01:56:50   anybody [TS]

01:56:50   we wanted to buy these other things for [TS]

01:56:52   way more money well the sad part is it [TS]

01:56:54   probably still as Apple's best-selling [TS]

01:56:55   laptop yeah but you know I mean like it [TS]

01:56:58   would be that it would be the one that [TS]

01:56:59   we back when we were all recommending [TS]

01:57:01   13-inch MacBook Air is like yeah default [TS]

01:57:03   recommendation right that would be in [TS]

01:57:06   those times again all right what do we [TS]

01:57:08   think about the iPad remember you just [TS]

01:57:10   skipped over the Mac Mini let's just say [TS]

01:57:12   no updates that seriously an option in [TS]

01:57:16   there yeah here's the problem like all [TS]

01:57:18   the stuff we've gone through so many [TS]

01:57:20   things were like oh maybe or they could [TS]

01:57:21   do this but they can't there's not [TS]

01:57:23   enough time in the keynote for all this [TS]

01:57:25   right so well but it's so like you know [TS]

01:57:26   the Mac books I guarantee you we just [TS]

01:57:29   spent more time talking about the [TS]

01:57:30   MacBook Pros and they will ya know they [TS]

01:57:31   would they wouldn't mention that but [TS]

01:57:33   like all even just those the stuff that [TS]

01:57:34   we have mentioned like this there's only [TS]

01:57:37   so much time they get a lot of stuff to [TS]

01:57:38   cover whether or not there's a Siri tube [TS]

01:57:41   thing I just feel like this is we've [TS]

01:57:42   overstuffed the thing with uh with with [TS]

01:57:45   things that we think they're over fifty [TS]

01:57:46   percent chance of being mentioned in the [TS]

01:57:48   key [TS]

01:57:48   already yeah and keep in mind also that [TS]

01:57:50   the keynote is going to also have a ton [TS]

01:57:52   of time consumed by things like retail [TS]

01:57:56   updates like and like on the talk show [TS]

01:57:58   Gruber endowment respectively like maybe [TS]

01:58:00   there maybe this is when they announced [TS]

01:58:01   AB major retail thing and then maybe [TS]

01:58:04   they have angel Aaron's out on stage and [TS]

01:58:06   like that all sounds very plausible [TS]

01:58:07   there's probably also going to be some [TS]

01:58:09   kind of you know Jeff Williams like [TS]

01:58:11   social medical environmental good [TS]

01:58:13   initiative something like that like so [TS]

01:58:14   it's going to be time with that and it's [TS]

01:58:16   going to be demos of any new stuff they [TS]

01:58:18   have and there's gonna there's gonna be [TS]

01:58:20   all these all these segments that will [TS]

01:58:21   take up a lot of time and so the the [TS]

01:58:23   stuff we're talking about is going to be [TS]

01:58:25   squeezed into little like intermediate [TS]

01:58:27   sections between it all so like they [TS]

01:58:29   we're going to sit here spending two and [TS]

01:58:31   a half hours on this but you know [TS]

01:58:33   they're going to spend 20 minutes on on [TS]

01:58:34   what we're talking about here for two [TS]

01:58:36   and a half hours so I think that if they [TS]

01:58:38   have a lot of announcements that I think [TS]

01:58:40   what they'll do is they'll end up [TS]

01:58:41   squeezing out the the less tech focused [TS]

01:58:45   things because in engineers where they [TS]

01:58:46   have a lot of those especially if it's [TS]

01:58:48   tied to one of the tech announcements [TS]

01:58:49   fine but not not that they feel like [TS]

01:58:51   filler but you don't have the luxury of [TS]

01:58:53   an extended Stegman about you know [TS]

01:58:57   health monitoring thing or whatever [TS]

01:58:59   right unless it's tied to oh and by the [TS]

01:59:01   way here's the new Apple watch with a [TS]

01:59:03   glucose measuring thing like that's the [TS]

01:59:04   only time you get to have that segment [TS]

01:59:05   or if you have a keynote it doesn't have [TS]

01:59:07   a lot of stuff in it then it needs some [TS]

01:59:08   time to fail they'll do that but if [TS]

01:59:09   anything close to what we've gone [TS]

01:59:11   through is there they're going to have [TS]

01:59:13   to be super efficient to be like we got [TS]

01:59:15   a lot of stuff to get to there's this is [TS]

01:59:17   this like that's that's what you know [TS]

01:59:19   for the Tim Cook's little thing where he [TS]

01:59:20   comes out instead of stuff I expect his [TS]

01:59:22   spiel to be we've you know we've got a [TS]

01:59:24   jam-packed thing we have a lot of stuff [TS]

01:59:26   to get to he always says that but like [TS]

01:59:27   to actually mean it or emphasize it's [TS]

01:59:29   slightly more before he gets off stage [TS]

01:59:30   and the parade of other executives come [TS]

01:59:32   out alright so any thoughts on iPad [TS]

01:59:36   hardware so my prediction is that this [TS]

01:59:40   is this year's iPad event I don't think [TS]

01:59:44   there's going to be iPads in the fall I [TS]

01:59:45   think this is the iPad event for the [TS]

01:59:47   year because it goes in with all the all [TS]

01:59:49   the software advances a third that [TS]

01:59:50   they're announcing and there's so much [TS]

01:59:52   time left in makino you might as well [TS]

01:59:53   write exactly as like a shove in there [TS]

01:59:55   on you know I think the the incredible [TS]

01:59:58   rumors [TS]

01:59:58   rumors [TS]

02:00:00   we'll be strong rumors about this 10.5 [TS]

02:00:01   inch or whatever it is ten point [TS]

02:00:03   whatever inch iPad being basically the [TS]

02:00:06   new the new 10 inch class size just [TS]

02:00:08   bigger screen roughly same body shape [TS]

02:00:10   and size that is so incredibly strongly [TS]

02:00:14   rumored it's very likely to be true I [TS]

02:00:17   think what we see basically is the new [TS]

02:00:21   10.5 is the new high-end iPad pro I [TS]

02:00:24   think the nine point seven goes [TS]

02:00:27   basically unchanged and just has its [TS]

02:00:29   price dropped a little bit because if [TS]

02:00:31   you look now in the lineup we mentioned [TS]

02:00:32   a couple episodes ago there's a massive [TS]

02:00:34   price gap between the new cheap nine [TS]

02:00:37   point seven inch iPad and the iPad pro [TS]

02:00:40   and that and like the nine point seven [TS]

02:00:42   it's 329 to 600 it like that's the price [TS]

02:00:46   jump there it's a huge price jump so [TS]

02:00:49   something's up like that seems like a [TS]

02:00:52   temporary thing that we're waiting to be [TS]

02:00:54   filled in with that gap by Sept by other [