The Accidental Tech Podcast

226: Smooth Scrolling Is For Suckers


00:00:00   we're not going to get through all this [TS]

00:00:01   follow so just a certain point someone [TS]

00:00:03   just pull the ripcord and we'll get the [TS]

00:00:05   hell out the show now we have crossed a [TS]

00:00:11   wonderful threshold that is totally [TS]

00:00:13   worth pointing out and calling out on [TS]

00:00:14   this show we have on my desk is an iPad [TS]

00:00:18   that is faster in every measure I could [TS]

00:00:20   possibly think of then John's Mac Pro [TS]

00:00:25   you are so mean oh you're so mean if it [TS]

00:00:30   beats a single-core a couple generations [TS]

00:00:31   ago and it is finally crossed the [TS]

00:00:35   multi-core so now and I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:00:38   the GPU is probably lay ahead I'm also [TS]

00:00:41   pretty sure that the screen on it is [TS]

00:00:43   higher resolution on the screen [TS]

00:00:44   connected to Jon's Mac Pro so is if we [TS]

00:00:47   have finally crossed the point where not [TS]

00:00:50   even the best iPad but just like the [TS]

00:00:52   middle-of-the-road iPad is faster in [TS]

00:00:55   every respect I can possibly think to [TS]

00:00:56   measure then John's Mac Pro it's the [TS]

00:00:58   best iPad isn't it what set is the top [TS]

00:01:00   100 faster higher clock or something I [TS]

00:01:02   know actually I think it's the same in [TS]

00:01:04   all respects just the higher extreme [TS]

00:01:05   resolution yeah well my fans are faster [TS]

00:01:07   so beat that I got so many more divided [TS]

00:01:12   by 0 that's not fair [TS]

00:01:13   yeah well just put up at an event in [TS]

00:01:17   your calendar and we'll revisit that [TS]

00:01:18   iPad in 10 years [TS]

00:01:19   uh-huh we'll see how it's doing yeah [TS]

00:01:23   that's what you're clinging to yeah is [TS]

00:01:25   the shattered glass on its surface long [TS]

00:01:28   after it's been dropped in at least my [TS]

00:01:30   Hardware still works ten years on barely [TS]

00:01:32   but it works it's all I've got [TS]

00:01:34   so I've got to hang on to now and I want [TS]

00:01:35   this I want this Mac to feel safe and [TS]

00:01:37   loved and to just carry me through so I [TS]

00:01:39   can turn funny of it oh now that Nev the [TS]

00:01:41   iPad like medium sized has USB 3 over [TS]

00:01:45   its lightning port I also have faster [TS]

00:01:46   ports on your Mac Pro oh that's [TS]

00:01:51   magnificent all right let's get this [TS]

00:01:52   show on the road we this is going to be [TS]

00:01:54   an all follow-up episode and it's just [TS]

00:01:56   the way it's going to have to be well I [TS]

00:01:57   all follow-up episode we will do an [TS]

00:01:58   after show that has some quasi follow-up [TS]

00:02:01   but we should dig right in [TS]

00:02:03   John here we go tell us about a PFS so [TS]

00:02:08   the AP FS session was on Friday at WWDC [TS]

00:02:12   saved it till the very end so obviously [TS]

00:02:14   we couldn't talk about it when we had [TS]

00:02:16   our live WWC episode because the session [TS]

00:02:18   hadn't been run yet Ron there was some [TS]

00:02:19   new information in this session in [TS]

00:02:22   particular all the issues about file [TS]

00:02:24   name encoding that we've been talking [TS]

00:02:26   about on the show we're still talking [TS]

00:02:27   about of course so this was the the one [TS]

00:02:31   and only bugga filed against ap FS like [TS]

00:02:33   last year back when it was introduced [TS]

00:02:34   with last year think it was last year [TS]

00:02:36   whatever was yeah I filed a bug we [TS]

00:02:38   talked about it on the show what are [TS]

00:02:39   they going to do about encoding and we [TS]

00:02:42   had you know and we've been talked about [TS]

00:02:43   off and on for a long time so I think is [TS]

00:02:45   the the biggest aside from a data [TS]

00:02:48   integrity which basically was a no-go on [TS]

00:02:49   that you know as we found out last year [TS]

00:02:51   so set that aside such a feature doesn't [TS]

00:02:53   have the encoding issue seem like a big [TS]

00:02:57   deal and it turns out it is a big deal [TS]

00:02:58   so some caveats here the session about [TS]

00:03:02   it was kind of vague and I tried to talk [TS]

00:03:05   to the Apple folks afterwards and I did [TS]

00:03:07   get to talk to a few of them including [TS]

00:03:08   one of the guys who implemented the [TS]

00:03:10   stuff I'm going to talk about now but it [TS]

00:03:12   didn't have that much time to talk to [TS]

00:03:13   him because they went down to the labs [TS]

00:03:15   and labs is your head like a big line [TS]

00:03:16   and everything and it seemed like super [TS]

00:03:18   official and I didn't want to get in [TS]

00:03:19   that line and like hog the file system [TS]

00:03:22   engineers from people who are developing [TS]

00:03:23   apps so I only got a brief time to talk [TS]

00:03:26   to them sort of in the hallways in [TS]

00:03:27   transit so forgive me if I got some of [TS]

00:03:29   this wrong if anyone wants to write in [TS]

00:03:31   and clarify they can let me know but [TS]

00:03:32   here's what I've got so in hi Sierra [TS]

00:03:36   there's something that they're calling [TS]

00:03:38   native normalization and that's going to [TS]

00:03:41   be an AP FS I remember a B vest came to [TS]

00:03:43   iOS and what ten point three point [TS]

00:03:45   something or other a couple weeks or a [TS]

00:03:48   month ago and we talked about it on the [TS]

00:03:49   show and the question we had was what is [TS]

00:03:52   going to be like when ApS comes to the [TS]

00:03:54   Mac is it going to be the same deal so [TS]

00:03:55   and so forth well one thing right off [TS]

00:03:57   the bat is different AP FS on High [TS]

00:03:59   Sierra has native normalization what [TS]

00:04:01   that means is file names are stored as [TS]

00:04:04   provided by the program in the file [TS]

00:04:06   system so whatever whatever garbage you [TS]

00:04:08   give it it says I'm writing that as the [TS]

00:04:10   file name there you go [TS]

00:04:13   but directory lookups are done through [TS]

00:04:17   hashes of normalized versions of the [TS]

00:04:19   file name so if you put in some file [TS]

00:04:21   name that's you know I don't know if [TS]

00:04:22   just any valid sequence of you know you [TS]

00:04:26   whatever's and you do a look-up on it [TS]

00:04:29   with a different but equivalent sequence [TS]

00:04:31   and it's the whole thing with like cafe [TS]

00:04:32   with a needle exclamation up with an [TS]

00:04:34   accent on it you can do that with accent [TS]

00:04:36   as a single character as to combining [TS]

00:04:38   characters right as far as you're [TS]

00:04:40   concerned that's the same file name so [TS]

00:04:42   what native normalization will do is [TS]

00:04:44   when it stores the hashes for that [TS]

00:04:46   directory it will not hash the file name [TS]

00:04:48   that you gave it the finally that's [TS]

00:04:50   actually in the file system instead it [TS]

00:04:51   will normalize that file name and store [TS]

00:04:53   that hash and then when you try to look [TS]

00:04:55   it up it'll take whatever you gave it [TS]

00:04:56   normalize that hash it and compared to [TS]

00:04:59   the other hash so it's kind of weird [TS]

00:05:00   that you've got in the file system a [TS]

00:05:01   file name and each file name has a [TS]

00:05:04   corresponding hash that is not a hash of [TS]

00:05:06   that file name it's a hash of the [TS]

00:05:08   normalized version that file name and [TS]

00:05:09   they're using NFD normalization put a [TS]

00:05:11   link in the show notes to look at the [TS]

00:05:12   different normalization forms in Unicode [TS]

00:05:14   the one they're using according to one [TS]

00:05:17   of the engineers to talk to is NF D and [TS]

00:05:19   this is what they call native [TS]

00:05:20   normalization so that will make it so [TS]

00:05:22   that on the Mac when you when a program [TS]

00:05:25   tries to look up a file name no matter [TS]

00:05:27   how sloppy the program is with the [TS]

00:05:29   encoding it will find it because it's [TS]

00:05:30   going to be looking it up by a hash of [TS]

00:05:32   the normalized version of that not by [TS]

00:05:34   what you gave it so it's not going to [TS]

00:05:36   take what you gave it and compare it to [TS]

00:05:37   the actual file name because then it [TS]

00:05:38   might not get it and here's the other [TS]

00:05:42   interesting part about this so iOS still [TS]

00:05:44   has still doesn't do this yet what [TS]

00:05:46   they're going to add something they call [TS]

00:05:47   run time normalization in iOS 10 3 3 and [TS]

00:05:51   iOS 11 which will not change what's in [TS]

00:05:54   the file system but will do something [TS]

00:05:56   that is vague and I didn't understand at [TS]

00:06:00   the file system level to make it so you [TS]

00:06:01   can find your files and here's the [TS]

00:06:03   kicker this this is right from the the a [TS]

00:06:05   BFS presentation slide future update [TS]

00:06:09   will convert all devices to the new [TS]

00:06:11   native normalization so what that means [TS]

00:06:14   is some point in the future they're [TS]

00:06:16   going to update all iOS devices file [TS]

00:06:19   systems again and they're not going to [TS]

00:06:20   convert them from one file system to [TS]

00:06:22   another they're going to basically add [TS]

00:06:24   all the hashes of the normalized forms [TS]

00:06:25   of all the file names I don't know if [TS]

00:06:27   that is more dangerous or less dangerous [TS]

00:06:28   than the other thing it seems to me that [TS]

00:06:30   it could be more dangerous but I'm [TS]

00:06:31   assuming they're doing in an additive [TS]

00:06:33   way but this is what I was getting I was [TS]

00:06:34   hemming and hawing over this encoding [TS]

00:06:37   stuff it's going to cause them to have [TS]

00:06:38   to [TS]

00:06:39   the file system on every single iOS [TS]

00:06:41   device at some point in the future like [TS]

00:06:43   they didn't get it over with there's [TS]

00:06:44   another one looming whereas the Mac is [TS]

00:06:46   going to do this one time conversion and [TS]

00:06:47   it will have the system from the get [TS]

00:06:48   going it seems to me that Apple's file [TS]

00:06:52   system engineers were surprised at how [TS]

00:06:56   many iOS programs take strings directly [TS]

00:07:01   from the UI and feed them to file system [TS]

00:07:03   API without doing like a [TS]

00:07:04   misrepresentation or any other sort of [TS]

00:07:06   api's that turn the string into the form [TS]

00:07:08   that the file system understands it just [TS]

00:07:10   as though someone typed something in a [TS]

00:07:11   field however that field in my [TS]

00:07:13   application got that string however was [TS]

00:07:16   typed however was you know whatever [TS]

00:07:18   however was normalized and not [TS]

00:07:20   normalized you composed or whatever I'm [TS]

00:07:22   just going to pass it straight through [TS]

00:07:23   to the file system and that that in turn [TS]

00:07:24   ends up having people not be able to [TS]

00:07:26   open up their files usually in non ASCII [TS]

00:07:28   language is obviously because ASCII is [TS]

00:07:30   very simple it maps one to one to utf-8 [TS]

00:07:32   and all that so surprise your iOS [TS]

00:07:37   devices are going to get updated again [TS]

00:07:39   yay there's actually uh something really [TS]

00:07:43   fascinating about that and I think I'm [TS]

00:07:45   jumping ahead in the show notes and I [TS]

00:07:46   apologize to mr. John siracusa during [TS]

00:07:50   the talk show I think was federighi had [TS]

00:07:52   mentioned that whatever version of iOS [TS]

00:07:55   it doesn't really matter what version it [TS]

00:07:57   was that the really flipped the switch [TS]

00:07:58   on a PFS and that migrated everyone to a [TS]

00:08:02   PFS apparently for like two or three [TS]

00:08:04   versions prior during the upgrade they [TS]

00:08:08   would do and jump in John when you're [TS]

00:08:10   ready they would do kind of like a a [TS]

00:08:13   trial run of the AP FS migration try to [TS]

00:08:17   figure out did this work what went right [TS]

00:08:20   what went what went wrong phone home the [TS]

00:08:23   results and then revert it all back to [TS]

00:08:25   hfs+ is that a fair summary yeah and [TS]

00:08:28   that's the only way I think people were [TS]

00:08:30   surprised by this but if you've ever [TS]

00:08:31   done a sort of a production rollout on a [TS]

00:08:33   large-scale it's the only way you can [TS]

00:08:34   ever do something like this you the [TS]

00:08:36   first time you run it for real on [TS]

00:08:37   everyone's devices can't be the first [TS]

00:08:40   time it runs right you have to have run [TS]

00:08:42   it several times before doing it [TS]

00:08:45   unbeknownst to them is certainly a novel [TS]

00:08:47   way to do it one possible way to do it [TS]

00:08:48   is to roll it out to a small subset of [TS]

00:08:50   your users use them as the guinea pigs [TS]

00:08:51   I'm not [TS]

00:08:52   sure how big like that were everybody to [TS]

00:08:54   get any things breather way you want you [TS]

00:08:56   have to you never you know programmers [TS]

00:08:58   no you never find a hugger thing [TS]

00:08:59   actually works until you you know run it [TS]

00:09:01   for real and server-side programmers no [TS]

00:09:03   production is never like exactly like [TS]

00:09:06   staging is never exactly like dev and so [TS]

00:09:08   on and so forth you think it is you try [TS]

00:09:09   to make them as much the same as you [TS]

00:09:10   possibly can but inevitably you roll [TS]

00:09:12   something out to production and surprise [TS]

00:09:14   it behaves a little bit differently in [TS]

00:09:16   strange ways that you never could have [TS]

00:09:17   predicted in when you have millions and [TS]

00:09:19   millions of users that is sure to be the [TS]

00:09:20   case so yeah they you know since the [TS]

00:09:22   conversion is non-destructive until the [TS]

00:09:24   very last step as described in past [TS]

00:09:25   episodes of the show they did the [TS]

00:09:27   conversion just didn't do the last step [TS]

00:09:29   and then ran a full integrity check to [TS]

00:09:31   say if I was to do this last step would [TS]

00:09:33   this thing be hosed or would it be okay [TS]

00:09:35   and then obviously we report the results [TS]

00:09:36   back to themselves and they could see [TS]

00:09:37   how it goes and they could have kept [TS]

00:09:39   doing that process until you know like [TS]

00:09:41   it could be that you know iOS level [TS]

00:09:43   would have been the conversion for it [TS]

00:09:44   but I guess they did it enough times and [TS]

00:09:46   got enough results to say it's safe to [TS]

00:09:48   do it in 10 3 whatever that they you [TS]

00:09:50   know conversion was so that's just a [TS]

00:09:53   good engineering there and you know and [TS]

00:09:55   like I said Ford's the design of a PFS [TS]

00:09:57   the type of file system that is allows [TS]

00:09:59   them to do both the trial runs and the [TS]

00:10:01   conversion in a fairly safe way I just I [TS]

00:10:05   mean again like you said it does make [TS]

00:10:06   sense but I just found that fascinating [TS]

00:10:08   that that was the path they chose and [TS]

00:10:11   just very clever stuff i it's that's [TS]

00:10:13   super cool it was really cool there were [TS]

00:10:16   a couple of other interesting tidbits we [TS]

00:10:17   got from the talk show which will I'm [TS]

00:10:19   sure discussed later [TS]

00:10:20   keeping with the a PFS train tell me [TS]

00:10:23   about the compression versus HFS+ yeah [TS]

00:10:27   this was a question I had a couple shows [TS]

00:10:30   back hey hfs+ has compression and a lot [TS]

00:10:33   of our West files are compressed and [TS]

00:10:34   other files can be compressed both by [TS]

00:10:36   user programs and by the OS and stuff [TS]

00:10:38   like that that's totally transparent to [TS]

00:10:40   you when you read the file off of a file [TS]

00:10:42   system hfs+ if it's compressed just [TS]

00:10:44   decompress is it on the fly you'd never [TS]

00:10:45   see it it never looks any different they [TS]

00:10:47   added that feature many years ago right [TS]

00:10:49   my question was how do you [TS]

00:10:52   non-destructively convert an HFS+ volume [TS]

00:10:55   to a PFS while not moving any of the [TS]

00:11:00   data because if you have a compressed [TS]

00:11:02   file and you leave it compressed and you [TS]

00:11:04   convert to a PF s and a PF s doesn't [TS]

00:11:06   understand that compression when you [TS]

00:11:07   read that file will be garbage because [TS]

00:11:09   it's not abs won't know how to [TS]

00:11:11   decompress it so it'll just read the [TS]

00:11:12   compressed bytes which is not what [TS]

00:11:14   you're going to expect and in the grand [TS]

00:11:16   tradition of Gruber forgetting to ask [TS]

00:11:18   Phil and Craig questions I forgot to ask [TS]

00:11:21   anybody w do you see how the heck [TS]

00:11:22   they're doing this so if anybody knows [TS]

00:11:25   tell me and it'll be follow-up in a [TS]

00:11:27   future show I just totally forgot to ask [TS]

00:11:28   I should have like written it on my palm [TS]

00:11:30   or something [TS]

00:11:31   say hey by the way when I've got your [TS]

00:11:33   heavy an impression again the easiest [TS]

00:11:35   solution is obviously the day PFS just [TS]

00:11:37   understands that compression handles it [TS]

00:11:38   that could be the case you know it's a [TS]

00:11:40   simple solution but I have no idea [TS]

00:11:42   interesting alright so next time next [TS]

00:11:45   WTC you'll have to remember iOS 11 dots [TS]

00:11:50   for signal strength so I am only vaguely [TS]

00:11:53   familiar with what's going on here but [TS]

00:11:54   apparently in some contexts either [TS]

00:11:57   screenshots or perhaps the OS itself is [TS]

00:11:59   showing circles for signal strength for [TS]

00:12:02   your cellular carrier but in other [TS]

00:12:04   context it's vertical bars is that right [TS]

00:12:07   I don't know what that who is running [TS]

00:12:09   iOS 11 I have it on my iPad that's [TS]

00:12:11   faster than John's Mac Pro and I can [TS]

00:12:12   tell you that it is definitely using [TS]

00:12:15   bars all the time yeah I think people [TS]

00:12:17   were confused by that because in the [TS]

00:12:19   keynote they showed like the [TS]

00:12:21   Notification Center slides were near [TS]

00:12:23   when you first saw the bar isn't it like [TS]

00:12:24   and we all know Notification Center [TS]

00:12:26   here's the things you can do in [TS]

00:12:27   Notification Center those were all iOS [TS]

00:12:28   10 screenshots that's why I was showing [TS]

00:12:31   like existing stuff you can do [TS]

00:12:32   Notification Center it was like a lineup [TS]

00:12:34   of big things and they all had dots in [TS]

00:12:35   them and the next slide was like here's [TS]

00:12:37   what you can do in iOS 11 and those had [TS]

00:12:38   bars someone told me they thought there [TS]

00:12:40   was a screenshot in the keynote that was [TS]

00:12:42   supposed to be iOS 11 that also had dots [TS]

00:12:45   but I don't recall seeing either way [TS]

00:12:46   Marko's got the actual beta and their [TS]

00:12:48   bars again like it whatever you see like [TS]

00:12:51   in betas and stuff is never actually [TS]

00:12:52   final but I can tell you that in beta [TS]

00:12:54   one on my iPad it is bars all bars all [TS]

00:12:57   the time and this is a welcome change [TS]

00:12:59   because dots always sucked I'm going to [TS]

00:13:02   like dots but the most important thing [TS]

00:13:04   about bars versus dots as far as [TS]

00:13:06   everyone's conspiracy theories go on [TS]

00:13:08   this is that bars take up less with in [TS]

00:13:10   the top bar and why would that be [TS]

00:13:13   important why do you need them to be [TS]

00:13:14   smaller all of the weird rumors about [TS]

00:13:17   the iPhone 8 or whatever they're going [TS]

00:13:19   to [TS]

00:13:20   having something in the middle of the [TS]

00:13:22   top of your screen that doesn't leave [TS]

00:13:24   enough room for the five dots to you [TS]

00:13:26   know lay themselves out that something [TS]

00:13:29   could be part of the case of the phone [TS]

00:13:31   like the cameras and stuff and it could [TS]

00:13:33   be like a little mono brow type thing [TS]

00:13:35   where the top of the phone is not [TS]

00:13:37   straight across but actually this is a [TS]

00:13:38   little dip in the middle it could be [TS]

00:13:40   that the cameras are behind the screen [TS]

00:13:43   at that point I don't quite understand [TS]

00:13:44   why you'd have to get rid of the bar so [TS]

00:13:45   that anyway there are a lot of theories [TS]

00:13:47   about why it has to be thinner the thing [TS]

00:13:48   that bothers me about the bars is and [TS]

00:13:51   one of the reasons that well I don't [TS]

00:13:52   know if one reason Apple got rid of them [TS]

00:13:54   but it was one of the things that people [TS]

00:13:55   don't like about bars and it was [TS]

00:13:56   discussed when they did get rid of them [TS]

00:13:58   was that visually speaking like the [TS]

00:14:02   visual weight of one two three four or [TS]

00:14:04   five bars is not even so if you have two [TS]

00:14:08   bars it doesn't look like half the lit [TS]

00:14:13   up pixels of four bars because it's like [TS]

00:14:15   a stair-step thing and you know it just [TS]

00:14:17   it looks like your signal is weaker than [TS]

00:14:19   it is then you do with dots if you have [TS]

00:14:21   five evenly sized dots then sort of one [TS]

00:14:24   you know two dots is exactly you know [TS]

00:14:27   almost exactly half the lit up pixels as [TS]

00:14:29   four dots you know and so it seems more [TS]

00:14:31   fair and you don't like to see your [TS]

00:14:33   phone with these tiny little one or two [TS]

00:14:35   bars even though two bars could be [TS]

00:14:38   perfectly good you feel a little bit [TS]

00:14:39   better when you see two out of five dots [TS]

00:14:40   at least that's my impression anyway [TS]

00:14:42   remember when they fixed antenna gate by [TS]

00:14:44   making the bars taller yeah or that [TS]

00:14:46   didn't they just like change the scale [TS]

00:14:47   because like what is three bars really [TS]

00:14:49   that you know this isn't yeah they did [TS]

00:14:51   some fussing that it'll actually did [TS]

00:14:53   both like they I think they changed I [TS]

00:14:55   think they changed some of you like you [TS]

00:14:57   know decibel cutoff points of what the [TS]

00:14:58   bars are presented and also they they [TS]

00:15:01   made the shorter like the leftmost bars [TS]

00:15:04   a little bit taller so that's why it's [TS]

00:15:06   kind of like a like almost like a curved [TS]

00:15:08   ramp up from the left instead of a [TS]

00:15:10   straight ramp up it may call the bar is [TS]

00:15:12   the same height so it's like a block or [TS]

00:15:14   something well that's what dots are yeah [TS]

00:15:15   but they're all spread out no but these [TS]

00:15:17   whole things about like trying to like [TS]

00:15:18   you know make room for you know a cutout [TS]

00:15:21   in the 2017 new iPhone I don't I'm not [TS]

00:15:26   sure I buy that be like the whole idea [TS]

00:15:28   of having these like these protruding [TS]

00:15:29   like camera and speaker things and [TS]

00:15:32   having a screen that goes [TS]

00:15:33   above to the left on the right of it I [TS]

00:15:35   still don't get that at all because I [TS]

00:15:39   just I mean I think we've learned by now [TS]

00:15:41   that the rumor cycle with this kind of [TS]

00:15:43   stuff gets about a third of what they [TS]

00:15:45   predict correct like it's it's not a [TS]

00:15:47   great ratio and I think this is just one [TS]

00:15:49   of those things like this this sounds [TS]

00:15:51   like something an Android maker would do [TS]

00:15:53   not something Apple to do because if you [TS]

00:15:55   think about how that screen space would [TS]

00:15:56   actually be used first of all there's a [TS]

00:15:59   lot of stuff that goes in the status bar [TS]

00:16:01   still even in iOS 11 there's lots of [TS]

00:16:03   stuff that goes in the status bar one of [TS]

00:16:05   the big things is where the clock go the [TS]

00:16:07   clock is right right there in the middle [TS]

00:16:09   and there's not really room on the sides [TS]

00:16:10   to put it there if you unless you get [TS]

00:16:12   rid of something else that everyone [TS]

00:16:13   likes or that you need so it's just like [TS]

00:16:16   I just don't I don't see how the status [TS]

00:16:19   bar morphs to have a big cut out in the [TS]

00:16:21   middle of it and still be good anyway [TS]

00:16:23   and then I also don't see why you would [TS]

00:16:26   have the screen extend with this giant [TS]

00:16:28   rectangle sticking into the middle of it [TS]

00:16:29   because what are you going to do with [TS]

00:16:31   that space like are you going to show [TS]

00:16:33   parts of a photo that extend into that [TS]

00:16:35   into that space then you then you see [TS]

00:16:37   the big black cutout like it's just I [TS]

00:16:39   don't see any way in which that looks [TS]

00:16:41   good and actually works in practice let [TS]

00:16:44   us have eyebrows rendered there you know [TS]

00:16:45   like rendered hair push your eyebrows [TS]

00:16:48   yeah you know so the non [TS]

00:16:51   conspiracy-theory [TS]

00:16:52   other than someone that looks just like [TS]

00:16:54   dots which is perfectly valid is that [TS]

00:16:57   having more room in the status bar is [TS]

00:17:00   always a good thing right I mean that [TS]

00:17:01   gives you more options sometimes I saw [TS]

00:17:03   as products kind of crowded up there and [TS]

00:17:04   if you're taking up less room with dots [TS]

00:17:05   then you get a little more breathing [TS]

00:17:06   room and it looks nicer if they want to [TS]

00:17:08   say take that weird back arrow thingy [TS]

00:17:11   that is always squished up in the is [TS]

00:17:13   that even in the status bar anyone know [TS]

00:17:15   yeah it does yeah like lay that out [TS]

00:17:18   differently now they have extra room who [TS]

00:17:19   knows anyway it could just be that in [TS]

00:17:21   like dots we'll find out you know a [TS]

00:17:23   couple months indeed all right another [TS]

00:17:27   thing that has happened in iOS 11 [TS]

00:17:28   apparently the third-party service [TS]

00:17:31   integration that came in a couple of [TS]

00:17:32   versions ago and remember exactly when [TS]

00:17:34   so this is integration at the system [TS]

00:17:36   level with Twitter Facebook Flickr Vimeo [TS]

00:17:38   you could enter your passwords [TS]

00:17:41   it's for any of those services at the [TS]

00:17:44   system level and then when an app wants [TS]

00:17:47   to leverage those services you know it [TS]

00:17:48   can kind of ask the system for for the [TS]

00:17:51   accounts blah blah blah those have all [TS]

00:17:53   been removed and according to the iOS 11 [TS]

00:17:57   beta release notes quote social accounts [TS]

00:18:00   have been removed from settings in iOS [TS]

00:18:01   11 third-party apps no longer have [TS]

00:18:02   access to those signed in accounts [TS]

00:18:04   what's that about [TS]

00:18:06   that's about adding one more thing to my [TS]

00:18:07   to-do list this summer because I use the [TS]

00:18:09   Twitter one and now I have to stop using [TS]

00:18:10   it and write my own stupid Twitter login [TS]

00:18:12   and I'm not happy about that sorry so [TS]

00:18:15   Darren Cohen says that Facebook and [TS]

00:18:16   Twitter get it rid of the API is that do [TS]

00:18:18   that stuff and that's why Microsoft's [TS]

00:18:21   also had to pull that support out of [TS]

00:18:22   windows I'm not sure if that's the case [TS]

00:18:24   but you know so fine [TS]

00:18:25   Facebook and Twitter got rid of them [TS]

00:18:26   what about Flickr and Vimeo like no one [TS]

00:18:29   is even developing they'll ask you know [TS]

00:18:31   it's all that some of might be [TS]

00:18:32   developing do you know anyway um it [TS]

00:18:35   seems more like it seems more like a [TS]

00:18:38   policy decision this is interesting [TS]

00:18:40   about the bay release notes by the way I [TS]

00:18:41   read them a couple times like they have [TS]

00:18:43   a known issue section and that but [TS]

00:18:46   sometimes they just talk about changes [TS]

00:18:48   and sometimes they phrase it so you [TS]

00:18:50   realize oh in this build such and such a [TS]

00:18:54   feature is like this but we don't mean [TS]

00:18:56   it to be that way it's just way it is in [TS]

00:18:57   this bill sometimes some things like [TS]

00:18:59   that under or under a known issues [TS]

00:19:01   header sometimes they're just in the [TS]

00:19:02   changes section and the reason I quoted [TS]

00:19:05   this is because I think this sentence [TS]

00:19:07   expresses pretty clearly that this is [TS]

00:19:09   not just something that's missing in [TS]

00:19:10   beta 1 but that marker really does have [TS]

00:19:12   to do work and they're just not leaving [TS]

00:19:14   them in there though they're officially [TS]

00:19:15   deprecated in the API they're gone like [TS]

00:19:17   that it's not yeah it's not like a [TS]

00:19:20   temporary beta 1 thing this is actually [TS]

00:19:22   they're gone so it does simplify things [TS]

00:19:23   because any time Apple has one of these [TS]

00:19:26   things where it's like certain blessed [TS]

00:19:28   third parties are given deeper hooks [TS]

00:19:31   into the operating system than other [TS]

00:19:32   ones it's kind of convenient but then [TS]

00:19:34   Apple has to eternally maintain an [TS]

00:19:38   awareness of the of the social service [TS]

00:19:41   zeitgeist they're like what's popular [TS]

00:19:43   now because they can't they can't just [TS]

00:19:45   keep the same set of things and support [TS]

00:19:46   them forever because three or four years [TS]

00:19:47   later then there's something new and and [TS]

00:19:49   some old one needs to go away but you [TS]

00:19:50   take the old one and go away then people [TS]

00:19:53   like Marco are sad because they use it [TS]

00:19:54   in their [TS]

00:19:55   but the the most a polite solution is [TS]

00:19:57   you know what you don't get any just get [TS]

00:19:59   yourself like because then you don't [TS]

00:20:01   have to worry I would have to keep up [TS]

00:20:03   with this anymore if they change their [TS]

00:20:04   api's they won't break our stop we don't [TS]

00:20:05   have to do deals with them every [TS]

00:20:07   developer can handle it for themselves [TS]

00:20:10   obviously the best solution would be [TS]

00:20:12   some way for some sort of extension [TS]

00:20:14   mechanism for the third-party services [TS]

00:20:17   themselves who are highly motivated to [TS]

00:20:19   have this type of integration to write [TS]

00:20:21   such an integration for iOS but that's [TS]

00:20:22   kind of long a lot and some third-party [TS]

00:20:25   keyboards and that something doesn't [TS]

00:20:27   seem like Apple would do but they could [TS]

00:20:29   do it someday well and also like the the [TS]

00:20:31   existing share extension framework [TS]

00:20:33   really does most of what you need for [TS]

00:20:35   that and and puts the power of creating [TS]

00:20:38   those things and maintain them and [TS]

00:20:39   designing them into the hands of the app [TS]

00:20:41   makers who run those services and have [TS]

00:20:43   their apps so it like you know it rather [TS]

00:20:45   than having Apple design the share to [TS]

00:20:48   Twitter sheet for instance that is built [TS]

00:20:50   into the system and have the system [TS]

00:20:51   maintain a separate Twitter login [TS]

00:20:54   account that is separately set and [TS]

00:20:56   separately managed now that's all on [TS]

00:20:58   Twitter or whatever happens so now a [TS]

00:21:00   Twitter can just with their app have [TS]

00:21:02   your own login in their application [TS]

00:21:04   Twitter can design their own share [TS]

00:21:06   extension and have it do whatever they [TS]

00:21:07   want it to do and look however they want [TS]

00:21:09   to look and so it and then you know it [TS]

00:21:11   isn't now just Twitter but now when [TS]

00:21:13   something new comes along like if Manson [TS]

00:21:15   wants to have a share tension from micro [TS]

00:21:17   blog that will now get equal billing as [TS]

00:21:20   a share extension as things like Twitter [TS]

00:21:22   and that's great and again like like we [TS]

00:21:25   were saying like this the the system of [TS]

00:21:26   having Apple maintained this fairly [TS]

00:21:29   short list of like services that matter [TS]

00:21:31   that will have first-class integration [TS]

00:21:33   that's not scalable and I think we've [TS]

00:21:35   seen over time like you know so many new [TS]

00:21:37   networks have come up since then like [TS]

00:21:39   there was never a shared a snapchat [TS]

00:21:41   that's crazy [TS]

00:21:42   snapchat is bigger than some of the [TS]

00:21:44   things that are noticed but it like it [TS]

00:21:47   didn't get to it the share to Twitter [TS]

00:21:48   that Apple made that that was there for [TS]

00:21:51   you know the last few iOS versions the [TS]

00:21:53   share to Twitter and iOS 10 broke on me [TS]

00:21:56   all the time like it would I would post [TS]

00:21:58   a tweet with it and it would just never [TS]

00:22:00   post and presumably like it was hitting [TS]

00:22:02   some weird API limit and was or it [TS]

00:22:05   wasn't counting characters correctly or [TS]

00:22:06   something and there was no interface [TS]

00:22:09   to report an error to me or to report [TS]

00:22:11   that it failed or to retry alright and [TS]

00:22:13   looks like it's like the system Apple [TS]

00:22:15   had before just did not scale and so [TS]

00:22:18   it's nice to have now that we have a new [TS]

00:22:21   system of its share extensions that [TS]

00:22:23   we've actually had for like 3 iOS [TS]

00:22:25   version though now Apple can step back [TS]

00:22:27   and say alright you know what we tried [TS]

00:22:29   doing this ourselves it was ok but now [TS]

00:22:31   this is up to you guys and we're going [TS]

00:22:33   to step back from it and you can always [TS]

00:22:35   kind of tell like the the data sharing [TS]

00:22:39   relationship between Apple and Twitter [TS]

00:22:42   and Facebook you can always tell it was [TS]

00:22:43   little bit tense you know there's there [TS]

00:22:45   really very much at odds with their [TS]

00:22:48   business models and what they want to do [TS]

00:22:50   with the user and who owns the user and [TS]

00:22:52   who owns the users data and what kind of [TS]

00:22:53   integration they want and everything [TS]

00:22:54   else and so to have Apple just fully [TS]

00:22:57   step back from that and you just tell [TS]

00:22:59   everyone else like look you're now cut [TS]

00:23:01   off from any kind of privilege you can [TS]

00:23:03   do these things but so can everyone else [TS]

00:23:05   and everything that's part of the system [TS]

00:23:07   is off limits to you that I think is [TS]

00:23:09   better for everybody really yeah reminds [TS]

00:23:12   me of when Apple first added Facebook [TS]

00:23:14   integration to what was then OS 10 and [TS]

00:23:17   one of our views remember hearing about [TS]

00:23:19   how they sort of bent over backwards to [TS]

00:23:22   try to integrate Facebook with apples [TS]

00:23:25   contact databases without giving [TS]

00:23:27   Facebook all of your contact info but [TS]

00:23:29   having them sync and it was you know [TS]

00:23:31   tense is definitely the right word for [TS]

00:23:33   it [TS]

00:23:34   the only bit about not having these [TS]

00:23:36   things as part of system is I guess it's [TS]

00:23:38   probably good for the services but maybe [TS]

00:23:40   some users won't like it you have to [TS]

00:23:42   have the app for these things installed [TS]

00:23:43   now even if you're like oh I'm never [TS]

00:23:45   going to use Flickr on my phone I just [TS]

00:23:47   want to be able to post to it from my [TS]

00:23:48   phone well you gotta have the flow graph [TS]

00:23:49   installed because the extensions come [TS]

00:23:51   from the app so whatever just put it in [TS]

00:23:53   a folder somewhere and you will notice [TS]

00:23:54   it we were sponsored this week by mail [TS]

00:23:58   route stop spam today with a free 30-day [TS]

00:24:01   trial at mail route net slash ATP you [TS]

00:24:04   know you should handle your email [TS]

00:24:05   security and delivery people who do only [TS]

00:24:08   that and that is mail around now this [TS]

00:24:11   applies to big companies or individuals [TS]

00:24:14   in it pretty much anybody who hosts an [TS]

00:24:16   email account on their own domain so [TS]

00:24:18   whether you use Google Apps for business [TS]

00:24:20   or whatever they call that this year or [TS]

00:24:22   you're using your own IMAP host [TS]

00:24:23   something like fast mail or whether you [TS]

00:24:26   run your own servers whether for [TS]

00:24:27   yourself or for your business if you're [TS]

00:24:28   on your own mail servers you direct the [TS]

00:24:30   internet to send their mail to mail rat [TS]

00:24:32   through MX records in your DNS for your [TS]

00:24:34   domain and then mail route delivers to [TS]

00:24:37   your servers only the clean mail they do [TS]

00:24:40   all the spam filtering virus filtering [TS]

00:24:42   all that for you so you get only clean [TS]

00:24:44   mail and in my opinion I'm using it now [TS]

00:24:46   for over a year at least and it is Bar [TS]

00:24:49   None the best spam filter I have ever [TS]

00:24:52   seen and it's full of great features [TS]

00:24:54   whether you're a business or individual [TS]

00:24:56   there's the adeno date this is made for [TS]

00:24:58   enterprise so they have all sorts of [TS]

00:25:00   wonderful enterprise features that I [TS]

00:25:01   personally don't understand they have a [TS]

00:25:03   whole API to manage it including you [TS]

00:25:05   know all sorts of you know crazy admin [TS]

00:25:07   tools there's a nice interface if you [TS]

00:25:09   want to use that instead of the API it's [TS]

00:25:11   all designed to make your life better as [TS]

00:25:13   either an end user of email or as an [TS]

00:25:15   email administrator for a business and [TS]

00:25:16   it is so so good I cannot tell you [TS]

00:25:20   enough how good mail right is I hardly [TS]

00:25:22   ever get spam anymore it's glorious it's [TS]

00:25:25   it's really weird but I do get it that's [TS]

00:25:27   how rarely I get it because it's [TS]

00:25:28   noteworthy when I do get it it is so so [TS]

00:25:32   great I cannot recommend mail route [TS]

00:25:34   enough and so again whether you're an [TS]

00:25:36   individual like me putting it in front [TS]

00:25:37   of an IMAP host or whether you're [TS]

00:25:38   running a bunch of servers for a [TS]

00:25:39   business you need mail route to filter [TS]

00:25:42   out all the spam and viruses before they [TS]

00:25:45   get to your servers you can save server [TS]

00:25:46   load you're more secure that way and [TS]

00:25:48   it's way better at filtering out spam [TS]

00:25:50   than anything else I've ever seen yes [TS]

00:25:52   Gmail people even Gmail it is so so good [TS]

00:25:55   at filtering out spam check out mail [TS]

00:25:56   route today and if you use our link mail [TS]

00:25:58   route dinettes slash ATP you get a free [TS]

00:26:01   trial 30 days and you get 10% off for [TS]

00:26:05   the lifetime of your account so every [TS]

00:26:07   time they bill you [TS]

00:26:08   you get 10% off that's pretty great [TS]

00:26:10   check it out today mail route net slash [TS]

00:26:12   ATP thank you very much - mail route for [TS]

00:26:15   sponsoring our show moving on in iOS 11 [TS]

00:26:22   according to Fraser Spears on the home [TS]

00:26:24   screen there are like four different [TS]

00:26:26   things you can do so a short tap means [TS]

00:26:30   open whatever app icon you just tapped [TS]

00:26:33   on a medium tap [TS]

00:26:35   apparently opens a popover menu a medium [TS]

00:26:38   hold what is a medium tap then anyway [TS]

00:26:42   as I one thing it took me a very long [TS]

00:26:43   time to figure out how to move multiple [TS]

00:26:46   apps at once on springboard what like [TS]

00:26:49   you can move an app around just with a [TS]

00:26:51   regular drag-and-drop but you can't do [TS]

00:26:53   multiple apps with that to do multiple [TS]

00:26:56   apps you have to put it into wiggle X [TS]

00:26:57   mode we're like the old way where you [TS]

00:26:59   long press on it and eventually it goes [TS]

00:27:01   into wiggle X mode then you can do the [TS]

00:27:03   multi tap thing like it took my sudden [TS]

00:27:05   this obviously it took me so long to [TS]

00:27:06   figure out some of this stuff like it's [TS]

00:27:08   there there are now like more modes than [TS]

00:27:12   than ever before and it's very powerful [TS]

00:27:14   but there are so many modes and gestures [TS]

00:27:17   and alternate taps and everything it's [TS]

00:27:18   going to be a while before even power [TS]

00:27:21   users figure out what what all this [TS]

00:27:22   stuff is so to come back to Fraser [TS]

00:27:24   Spears source power user yes our short [TS]

00:27:26   tap is open the app the medium tap is [TS]

00:27:29   the popover menu medium hold is begin a [TS]

00:27:32   drag long hold is enter rearrange mode [TS]

00:27:34   all of those different things based on [TS]

00:27:37   you putting your meaty finger against [TS]

00:27:40   the screen on top of an icon for various [TS]

00:27:43   amounts of time with various medicine [TS]

00:27:45   movement I think for such is separate [TS]

00:27:46   because force touches brings up the [TS]

00:27:48   whatever the forced touch menu that the [TS]

00:27:49   application implements this reminds me [TS]

00:27:51   of course of the home button which [TS]

00:27:53   started out as a button you press to go [TS]

00:27:55   back to springboard and ended up having [TS]

00:27:57   a Morse code set of things that you can [TS]

00:27:59   tap on to do all sorts of weird stuff I [TS]

00:28:01   mean at the point where there we talked [TS]

00:28:03   about it before the accessibility thing [TS]

00:28:05   where it slides down the screen wherever [TS]

00:28:07   that's called that was like two taps but [TS]

00:28:11   don't actually press the button that's [TS]

00:28:13   what we level they were getting at were [TS]

00:28:14   like they'd used up the one to tap and [TS]

00:28:17   hold do this to that it's like okay now [TS]

00:28:18   now this is a tap but don't press the [TS]

00:28:21   button as the button doesn't move [TS]

00:28:23   anymore but like don't press it enough [TS]

00:28:25   that it would move if it did move it's [TS]

00:28:27   very strange [TS]

00:28:29   continuing title with iOS 11 a new [TS]

00:28:31   feature of iOS 11 which was mentioned I [TS]

00:28:33   thought somewhere maybe during the [TS]

00:28:36   keynote but I might be wrong about that [TS]

00:28:37   but I saw this somewhere last week you [TS]

00:28:40   can now share your Wi-Fi passwords so [TS]

00:28:42   this there's an article 95 Mac will put [TS]

00:28:45   the show notes if a friend comes over [TS]

00:28:46   with an iPhone running iOS 11 you can [TS]

00:28:48   automatically log [TS]

00:28:49   into your Wi-Fi in one tap and this [TS]

00:28:51   looks very similar to kind of the the [TS]

00:28:55   air pods charge status when you flick [TS]

00:28:57   open the air pod case I don't obviously [TS]

00:28:59   think that's how its activated but they [TS]

00:29:02   have a screen shot in here on the 95 Mac [TS]

00:29:03   article and what a cool idea I dig it [TS]

00:29:06   my question is do they get to see your [TS]

00:29:09   password like is this just a convenience [TS]

00:29:11   feature of not having to read something [TS]

00:29:13   off to somebody and they type it in and [TS]

00:29:15   get capital that is wrong or is this a [TS]

00:29:17   security feature where you can let [TS]

00:29:18   someone log on to your thing but they [TS]

00:29:20   can't see your password I'm inclined to [TS]

00:29:21   think it's just a convenience feature [TS]

00:29:22   because once the password is on their [TS]

00:29:24   phone surely they can get it off if they [TS]

00:29:27   wanted it it wasn't presumably I mean [TS]

00:29:28   because they have to know like they have [TS]

00:29:30   to have the password in their device a [TS]

00:29:32   possession for it to be on the Wi-Fi so [TS]

00:29:35   I'm guessing like it probably isn't [TS]

00:29:36   shown to them it's probably just putting [TS]

00:29:38   keychain but there are ways to access [TS]

00:29:41   things in keychain like if you sync if [TS]

00:29:42   it's synced with iCloud keychain and it [TS]

00:29:44   syncs to a Mac then you can go to [TS]

00:29:46   keychain access and you can get the [TS]

00:29:47   password right there so what are the [TS]

00:29:49   secure Enclave possibly get all right [TS]

00:29:52   right so yeah I'm guessing that you know [TS]

00:29:54   they end up having a way to get to the [TS]

00:29:56   password if they want to and this is [TS]

00:29:57   this is more for quick convenience and [TS]

00:30:00   like casual security than it is about [TS]

00:30:03   real security because real security is a [TS]

00:30:05   go in them on your network then they're [TS]

00:30:07   on your network that's it exactly [TS]

00:30:08   everyone's Wi-Fi passwords are like the [TS]

00:30:10   kids names anyway so come on yeah I no [TS]

00:30:12   one ever changes their Wi-Fi passwords [TS]

00:30:13   because now they have like sixteen [TS]

00:30:14   different things on it and people have [TS]

00:30:16   years and their Wi-Fi passwords and it's [TS]

00:30:18   like 1999 oh yeah mine's 2008 if I'm not [TS]

00:30:21   mistaken [TS]

00:30:22   yeah Wi-Fi really needs like a like a [TS]

00:30:24   token system like like oh where you can [TS]

00:30:26   just like issue devices tokens then like [TS]

00:30:28   you can change the password for new [TS]

00:30:30   devices really so before everyone writes [TS]

00:30:34   in I know there are flavors of Wi-Fi [TS]

00:30:36   security that allow that sort of thing [TS]

00:30:38   but it isn't generally speaking it is [TS]

00:30:41   not the sort of thing you will ever find [TS]

00:30:42   somebody's house is that like they'll do [TS]

00:30:44   there is the possible yeah yeah and [TS]

00:30:46   there I've seen installations in the [TS]

00:30:48   home that will do this sort of thing I [TS]

00:30:50   understand that's a thing it doesn't [TS]

00:30:52   really matter the details like a friend [TS]

00:30:53   of mine had some set up with like a [TS]

00:30:55   Raspberry Pi or some such where you [TS]

00:30:57   would push a little button on some [TS]

00:30:58   device it would actually like print out [TS]

00:30:59   a temporary Wi-Fi password for you just [TS]

00:31:01   because this is the sort of thing you [TS]

00:31:02   did [TS]

00:31:02   for living so you had like crazy [TS]

00:31:04   enterprise hardware in his house and it [TS]

00:31:06   was actually very cool but but yeah for [TS]

00:31:08   any normal person you're absolutely [TS]

00:31:10   right Marco like this would be kind of [TS]

00:31:13   cool if it was usable and I consider [TS]

00:31:15   myself a normal person in this context [TS]

00:31:17   because I'm not like a super network [TS]

00:31:18   administrator so yeah so for me to like [TS]

00:31:21   issue a temporary password would be [TS]

00:31:22   pretty neat but that's not the sort of [TS]

00:31:24   thing you find in normal like wpa2 or [TS]

00:31:26   whatever it is households all right [TS]

00:31:29   moving on a friend of the show Steven [TS]

00:31:30   Smith he pointed out that drag-and-drop [TS]

00:31:33   upload of files to Mobile Safari works [TS]

00:31:36   now and I actually saw I don't think I'm [TS]

00:31:38   going to have it handy and I'm not gonna [TS]

00:31:39   be able to dig it up but I think it was [TS]

00:31:40   trendy Caldwell had a tweet about this [TS]

00:31:43   you can take several files from say like [TS]

00:31:47   the files app for example and you can [TS]

00:31:50   drag them into mobile safari much like [TS]

00:31:53   you would do in regular desktop safari [TS]

00:31:55   and it will actually upload all of those [TS]

00:31:57   files which is super cool [TS]

00:31:59   it's another thing Marko's ipad can do [TS]

00:32:02   that my Mac can also do finally file [TS]

00:32:05   uploads the final frontier for iOS web [TS]

00:32:08   violence my word I put this in here is [TS]

00:32:13   because not to get like dragon drop [TS]

00:32:14   forks ever but because until I read this [TS]

00:32:16   it wouldn't have even occurred to me to [TS]

00:32:18   try that on iOS because I've been so [TS]

00:32:20   conditioned but from so many years yeah [TS]

00:32:21   you're gonna do like a file upload you [TS]

00:32:24   got to go to a Mac for that right and [TS]

00:32:26   even though we all know drag and drop is [TS]

00:32:28   there I wouldn't like you have to change [TS]

00:32:29   your mindset now with these drag and [TS]

00:32:31   drop features to think to try something [TS]

00:32:33   instead of just like walling it off in [TS]

00:32:35   your mind is like oh you can only do [TS]

00:32:36   that in the desktop not true anymore [TS]

00:32:38   with iOS 11 this is I think going to be [TS]

00:32:40   like one of the I mean this is always [TS]

00:32:41   the case like with new platforms but [TS]

00:32:43   like this is one of the reasons why I [TS]

00:32:44   think young people have a way better [TS]

00:32:46   chance of working on these platforms [TS]

00:32:47   than we do because like it is so easy as [TS]

00:32:50   someone who's been who's been around [TS]

00:32:52   since the early days of iOS like us you [TS]

00:32:54   know it's so easy to forget all the new [TS]

00:32:56   things that you can do that you used to [TS]

00:32:58   not be able to do and we just don't even [TS]

00:33:00   think to try those things because we [TS]

00:33:02   like quote know it you know [TS]

00:33:04   subconsciously we just know that's [TS]

00:33:05   that's nothing you can do here and like [TS]

00:33:07   you need somebody younger than you like [TS]

00:33:09   fatigued she to come around and be like [TS]

00:33:10   no look you can do all this crap you [TS]

00:33:12   guys are done and he's not that mean of [TS]

00:33:13   course he's super nice but you know he's [TS]

00:33:15   young at heart [TS]

00:33:16   heeey yeah like you need somebody who's [TS]

00:33:19   like more fresh to the platform or more [TS]

00:33:23   willing to experiment or more [TS]

00:33:24   open-minded than us old farts to to [TS]

00:33:27   actually like push the boundaries of [TS]

00:33:30   using the thing and actually use up as [TS]

00:33:32   all these new features that we might see [TS]

00:33:34   in a keynote for five seconds and [TS]

00:33:35   immediately forget about the flip side [TS]

00:33:38   of that by the way is whenever the [TS]

00:33:40   youngsters see me and old fart use my [TS]

00:33:42   Mac they never know all the things that [TS]

00:33:45   I'm dragging around and like the fact [TS]

00:33:46   that you you know proxy icons and title [TS]

00:33:48   bars like totally undiscoverable stuff [TS]

00:33:50   if you haven't been using the Mac [TS]

00:33:51   forever or like which applications you [TS]

00:33:54   have to hold long and then start to drag [TS]

00:33:56   or start drag immediately versus holding [TS]

00:33:58   to drag large pieces of text to copy it [TS]

00:34:01   inside terminal without blowing away [TS]

00:34:03   your buffer or you know before you even [TS]

00:34:05   get into multiple clipboards and all [TS]

00:34:07   those stuff there's lots of things that [TS]

00:34:09   old platforms can do the young people [TS]

00:34:10   don't learn as well because they didn't [TS]

00:34:12   go through all the you know they didn't [TS]

00:34:15   start out with a simple system and see [TS]

00:34:16   new features get added they just use the [TS]

00:34:17   system they use enough of the system to [TS]

00:34:19   get their job done and it didn't have [TS]

00:34:21   this history of learning all these other [TS]

00:34:23   obscure features so there's there's [TS]

00:34:24   secrets of lying and Mac OS as well [TS]

00:34:27   especially if you're an old next user [TS]

00:34:28   this stuff from next still lurking in [TS]

00:34:30   there and there's stuff from the old Mac [TS]

00:34:31   still working on there so we have [TS]

00:34:33   something to teach the youth right [TS]

00:34:34   before we die Wow on our slow Mac Pro's [TS]

00:34:38   man you are really Jill in this homely [TS]

00:34:40   Savage well I mean to be fair to be fair [TS]

00:34:43   to John's very slow old Mac Pro it is [TS]

00:34:45   really impress is kind of an argument [TS]

00:34:47   for the Mac Pro that first of all that [TS]

00:34:50   he's still using it almost ten years [TS]

00:34:51   later and it's mostly fine a second of [TS]

00:34:54   all its argument for upgrade ability [TS]

00:34:55   because upgrades like an SSD and a new [TS]

00:34:57   GPU have made this possible and third of [TS]

00:35:00   all it really shows quite the difference [TS]

00:35:03   when you buy a Mac Pro like the mat like [TS]

00:35:06   the iOS hardware surpassed five-year old [TS]

00:35:09   Macs you know long ago but it took it [TS]

00:35:13   took until now for it to surpass this [TS]

00:35:14   ten-year old Mac in multi-core [TS]

00:35:16   performance is when you have eight cores [TS]

00:35:18   it takes a long time for things to catch [TS]

00:35:21   up to that and like one of the reasons [TS]

00:35:23   why I love the Mac Pro so much is you [TS]

00:35:25   get so much Headroom like you literally [TS]

00:35:29   you know you're [TS]

00:35:30   the core performance is always limited [TS]

00:35:31   by whatever the technology of the era is [TS]

00:35:34   for single core design but they cram so [TS]

00:35:38   many cores in there that for parallel [TS]

00:35:40   workloads which is what a lot of pros do [TS]

00:35:42   you can basically buy yourself 10 years [TS]

00:35:46   from now levels of performance today and [TS]

00:35:49   so the Mac Pro like it's it's it's [TS]

00:35:51   useful to a lot of types of people for [TS]

00:35:54   way longer than any other computer is so [TS]

00:35:57   that I it's it that just shows like why [TS]

00:36:00   having these high core count [TS]

00:36:02   workstations is still valuable because [TS]

00:36:04   you're literally buying yourself like a [TS]

00:36:06   place 10 years from now performance just [TS]

00:36:09   wait for the iMac Pro with its 18 cores [TS]

00:36:11   that'll give you another good head start [TS]

00:36:13   on the phones okay so we made a [TS]

00:36:17   reference to it earlier but there were a [TS]

00:36:19   couple of things that were I mean the [TS]

00:36:20   whole show was interesting but a couple [TS]

00:36:21   of interesting tidbits that came out of [TS]

00:36:22   the talk show live from last week so [TS]

00:36:25   this was as per tradition it was John [TS]

00:36:28   Gruber and then as of the last couple of [TS]

00:36:30   years it's been Phil Schiller and Craig [TS]

00:36:32   federighi and as usual was a great show [TS]

00:36:35   I like that John doesn't just throw up [TS]

00:36:40   the softball questions and I can't think [TS]

00:36:42   of Tom my head of what the hard balls [TS]

00:36:43   were but he always asked at least a few [TS]

00:36:45   hard balls which I liked and at one [TS]

00:36:46   point at the end chiller actually said [TS]

00:36:48   to him hey man in so many words you know [TS]

00:36:51   hey man you always say a couple weeks [TS]

00:36:53   later man I wish I asked Schiller this [TS]

00:36:54   so what do you got and I think it took [TS]

00:36:58   Gruber by surprise which was kind of [TS]

00:37:00   funny and and I forget exactly what he [TS]

00:37:02   came up with but in summary it was a [TS]

00:37:04   really great show if you haven't [TS]

00:37:06   listened to it and/or watched it because [TS]

00:37:07   there's a video available you really [TS]

00:37:09   really should and John and I had the [TS]

00:37:11   pleasure of being seated front row and [TS]

00:37:13   watching it Marco had the pleasure of [TS]

00:37:14   sitting in a 90-degree a sound booth in [TS]

00:37:17   watching slash listening to it but but [TS]

00:37:21   there were some interesting things that [TS]

00:37:22   came from it one of them was the trial a [TS]

00:37:24   PFS migrations we mentioned earlier but [TS]

00:37:26   the other thing that all of us I think [TS]

00:37:28   picked up on were also amazed by was the [TS]

00:37:31   photo data that is synced in between [TS]

00:37:34   devices which was mentioned in the [TS]

00:37:35   keynote or maybe not the keynote with [TS]

00:37:37   the State of the Union if not that isn't [TS]

00:37:40   what we thought it was so the way [TS]

00:37:44   I understood what was said in whatever [TS]

00:37:47   keynoter State of the Union was that hey [TS]

00:37:49   all of the metadata that we generate [TS]

00:37:51   during the photo crawl process on any of [TS]

00:37:55   our devices all of that is getting [TS]

00:37:57   synced v iCloud to all your other [TS]

00:37:59   devices we were all very very very [TS]

00:38:01   excited about this turns out that that [TS]

00:38:04   is not the case and what's actually [TS]

00:38:06   happening is only the stuff that that [TS]

00:38:09   Apple has complete certainty in and I'm [TS]

00:38:12   slightly paraphrasing Craig here only [TS]

00:38:15   the stuff that Apple is complete [TS]

00:38:16   certainty in is what's inked which in [TS]

00:38:18   turn means only the stuff that a user [TS]

00:38:20   has actively said yes or no to so in the [TS]

00:38:23   case of photos what that means is if [TS]

00:38:25   there is a photo that has the three of [TS]

00:38:27   us in it and I as a user say that one is [TS]

00:38:29   Marco and that one is John that photo in [TS]

00:38:32   the information about it that I've [TS]

00:38:33   provided will be synced to B iCloud to [TS]

00:38:35   the other devices but anything else any [TS]

00:38:37   of the generated like metadata and all [TS]

00:38:39   that that isn't synced at all which [TS]

00:38:42   probably isn't a bad thing but I [TS]

00:38:45   wouldn't necessarily it's a good say [TS]

00:38:46   it's a good thing either and I presume [TS]

00:38:48   that this is because of privacy concerns [TS]

00:38:50   but it was I feel like it was a little [TS]

00:38:52   bit of a bait-and-switch or maybe I just [TS]

00:38:54   misunderstood what was said Nikki no but [TS]

00:38:55   it felt like a bait-and-switch [TS]

00:38:56   compared to earlier that week when we [TS]

00:38:59   had heard oh yeah we're syncing things [TS]

00:39:00   between devices it's great yeah I get I [TS]

00:39:03   understand why they're doing it this way [TS]

00:39:07   but I think it's the wrong choice so [TS]

00:39:08   like you know basically you know that [TS]

00:39:10   there are there were a few problems with [TS]

00:39:12   the way it was before you know problem [TS]

00:39:14   number one was that your if you actually [TS]

00:39:17   took the time to enter things like like [TS]

00:39:19   faces data that wasn't syncing multiple [TS]

00:39:22   devices so it kind of it was very [TS]

00:39:24   frustrating it's it's like a form of [TS]

00:39:25   data loss like you input that on one [TS]

00:39:27   device but then like you go to some [TS]

00:39:28   other device and it's not there or it's [TS]

00:39:30   different so that's no good so that's [TS]

00:39:32   the part they're sinking problem number [TS]

00:39:33   two is that every time you do an OS [TS]

00:39:36   restore or get a new phone or replace a [TS]

00:39:38   phone from service or a new Mac or any [TS]

00:39:41   of any any new devices with with photos [TS]

00:39:43   on them your device would basically run [TS]

00:39:47   really hot and have terrible battery [TS]

00:39:49   life if it if it misbehaved and CPU to [TS]

00:39:52   be maxed out for hours or days after you [TS]

00:39:55   got it as photo analysis do [TS]

00:39:58   he went through your entire photo [TS]

00:39:59   library and tried to recognize objects [TS]

00:40:02   in the photos so you could search for [TS]

00:40:03   them that one they didn't fix that one [TS]

00:40:07   is still being done on all the different [TS]

00:40:09   devices individually and it sounds like [TS]

00:40:11   the reason why is because that's [TS]

00:40:14   something that they're kind of guessing [TS]

00:40:16   on each device they're like they're [TS]

00:40:18   using you know machine learning to try [TS]

00:40:21   to figure these things out and that's [TS]

00:40:23   fine but it seems like the reason why [TS]

00:40:28   they don't want to sync that is so that [TS]

00:40:31   a newer device that maybe has a newer OS [TS]

00:40:34   that can be smarter about what it [TS]

00:40:36   recognizes you can get smarter results [TS]

00:40:39   on that and that way you don't have like [TS]

00:40:40   bad results synced forever from old [TS]

00:40:44   photos but that creates the experience [TS]

00:40:46   not only of having your devices be [TS]

00:40:48   really hot for the first couple days you [TS]

00:40:50   have them and your CPU core if you maxed [TS]

00:40:52   out for a long time but that also makes [TS]

00:40:54   so that you get different search results [TS]

00:40:56   on different devices for like the same [TS]

00:40:59   query and that's not really great either [TS]

00:41:02   so I'm not really sure what what led [TS]

00:41:06   them to make this decision there's [TS]

00:41:07   probably more information here that we [TS]

00:41:08   don't have I'm sure there were good [TS]

00:41:10   reasons but from where I sit from the [TS]

00:41:14   from the subset of the real information [TS]

00:41:16   that I have I still think it's the wrong [TS]

00:41:19   choice yeah it's not just an object [TS]

00:41:22   recognition to the faces thing is the [TS]

00:41:24   thing that bothers me the most because I [TS]

00:41:26   think most people don't spend that much [TS]

00:41:29   time confirming faces because it's [TS]

00:41:31   annoying to do you confirm some or [TS]

00:41:33   whatever the width system is supposed to [TS]

00:41:34   work especially on a single you know [TS]

00:41:36   device scenario is you confirm bunch of [TS]

00:41:39   pages to say yes no no yes maybe make [TS]

00:41:41   some Corrections and based on your [TS]

00:41:43   confirmations the system then guesses [TS]

00:41:47   all the other pictures that have this [TS]

00:41:49   person's face in them and that type of [TS]

00:41:52   feature I've always wanted this facial [TS]

00:41:54   recognition feature to replace my manual [TS]

00:41:56   tagging system or if I want to find all [TS]

00:41:58   pictures of my wife I don't want to have [TS]

00:42:01   to manually tag every single picture [TS]

00:42:03   that she's in I just want to tell the [TS]

00:42:04   system this is her this is our this is [TS]

00:42:07   our this er I'll do that a hundred times [TS]

00:42:08   like I am sure I've spent way more time [TS]

00:42:10   in that photo [TS]

00:42:11   Confirmation thing then most people have [TS]

00:42:13   right and then based on that data set [TS]

00:42:15   find all the other ones and the end of [TS]

00:42:18   my interface to this is I want you know [TS]

00:42:20   somewhere in the sidebar like a smart [TS]

00:42:22   folder or whatever to say you know [TS]

00:42:24   pictures of my wife right and as far as [TS]

00:42:27   I'm concerned the set of pictures of my [TS]

00:42:30   wife is not a thing like finding like [TS]

00:42:32   telephone or plastic or like you know [TS]

00:42:35   garbage can in a picture that new [TS]

00:42:37   versions and different machine learning [TS]

00:42:39   AI algorithms can you know do better and [TS]

00:42:42   future things it should be the same like [TS]

00:42:45   I want it to be at the same as if I had [TS]

00:42:47   manually tagged it right and and I want [TS]

00:42:50   the same experience on every device [TS]

00:42:52   right and if it is better in some future [TS]

00:42:55   device because it's like well we are [TS]

00:42:56   technically guessing and this one is [TS]

00:42:57   able to guess better if it is better [TS]

00:42:59   another device they just need to like [TS]

00:43:00   version that stuff or or you know that [TS]

00:43:02   so that when as soon as they get the [TS]

00:43:05   better version sync the better version [TS]

00:43:06   ever at bottom line if I have that Smart [TS]

00:43:08   Folder wherever this is pictures of my [TS]

00:43:09   wife I don't want to see wildly [TS]

00:43:11   different counts on them and they will [TS]

00:43:13   be pretty different because depending on [TS]

00:43:15   how much time you spent adding the [TS]

00:43:17   people's faces or how many other people [TS]

00:43:18   you have look similar or whatever I [TS]

00:43:20   don't want it to to Regas at different [TS]

00:43:22   times and see like oh why do I have a [TS]

00:43:24   different number of pictures of my wife [TS]

00:43:25   nice two devices you don't it's just [TS]

00:43:26   that one has a different notion of how [TS]

00:43:28   many pictures of your wife there are [TS]

00:43:29   because there even though they're both [TS]

00:43:30   working from the same small data set of [TS]

00:43:32   manual selected pictures is too much [TS]

00:43:33   variability blah blah I know it's better [TS]

00:43:36   than it was but I still think this room [TS]

00:43:38   to grow it's always funny to me that uh [TS]

00:43:40   that Craig seems not like obviously [TS]

00:43:45   uncomfortable but not totally in love [TS]

00:43:49   with being on stage and I think we [TS]

00:43:50   talked about this last year too until it [TS]

00:43:53   a technical thing comes up and suddenly [TS]

00:43:57   everything changes and he's like super [TS]

00:44:00   confident [TS]

00:44:01   awesome engineer guy it to the point [TS]

00:44:03   that like his depth of knowledge in [TS]

00:44:05   things that that are reasonably I don't [TS]

00:44:10   know esoteric is the right word but like [TS]

00:44:11   he'll happily go deep on damn near [TS]

00:44:15   anything on the drop of a hat and I [TS]

00:44:19   don't know how the man can keep that [TS]

00:44:21   much stuff in his head it's just [TS]

00:44:22   stunning to me because especially my [TS]

00:44:25   stereotypical view of managers is that [TS]

00:44:27   they're so far outside of the weeds [TS]

00:44:29   there their gills they're sitting on [TS]

00:44:31   their fancy Thrones looking down at [TS]

00:44:33   their kingdom of minions and saying Oh [TS]

00:44:34   minions take care of things not having [TS]

00:44:36   any idea what the weeds are and what's [TS]

00:44:38   in the weeds etc but but he can go all [TS]

00:44:41   the way down like on anything it's just [TS]

00:44:43   stunning and I mana I love listening to [TS]

00:44:46   him talk that guy's well and Phil is [TS]

00:44:47   great as well don't get me wrong but but [TS]

00:44:49   man Craig is a a nerds nerd I dig it [TS]

00:44:51   agreed I didn't listen to the recording [TS]

00:44:53   you know because I saw a live but in the [TS]

00:44:57   live thing there was one heckler who [TS]

00:44:59   shouted out to her one clan Joe when is [TS]

00:45:02   Siri going to get better I don't know if [TS]

00:45:04   they cut that out of the final recording [TS]

00:45:05   but that did happen no it's it's there [TS]

00:45:07   but they you know they didn't address it [TS]

00:45:09   because it was like they were basically [TS]

00:45:11   like John was like in the middle of [TS]

00:45:12   asking a question so they just kept [TS]

00:45:14   moving like cuz it was it was not like [TS]

00:45:16   at a at a pull at a point where it even [TS]

00:45:18   makes sense to address it yeah so [TS]

00:45:20   there's two ways you can go on this one [TS]

00:45:21   is that from a hosting perspective it's [TS]

00:45:24   a good idea not to encourage hecklers by [TS]

00:45:25   by addressing them right so John [TS]

00:45:28   ignoring the heckler is the way of [TS]

00:45:30   saying don't heckle but in my show it's [TS]

00:45:32   my show I'm going to pretend you don't [TS]

00:45:33   exist on the other hand when is Siri get [TS]

00:45:36   better so okay that that is a line of [TS]

00:45:41   questioning that could have been brought [TS]

00:45:43   up in the context of home pod or [TS]

00:45:45   whatever and I think well but but again [TS]

00:45:47   like when you have limited time on stage [TS]

00:45:50   with Apple executives to ask questions [TS]

00:45:52   there you have to have some degree of [TS]

00:45:55   just predicting like you know what's a [TS]

00:45:57   good question here like what's actually [TS]

00:45:58   a good use of time and a question we're [TS]

00:46:01   just going to give like a pretty canned [TS]

00:46:03   PR like answer is not a good use of time [TS]

00:46:06   because like what do you like what are [TS]

00:46:09   they gonna say on stage [TS]

00:46:10   what like do you honestly think like [TS]

00:46:12   Phil Schiller is going to be on stage [TS]

00:46:14   and be like yeah you know what you're [TS]

00:46:15   right Syria isn't very good we're [TS]

00:46:17   working on it like no like of course not [TS]

00:46:18   like it's going to be an answer of you [TS]

00:46:21   know even if you ask that question [TS]

00:46:22   directly to them it's going to be a [TS]

00:46:25   relatively you know information less [TS]

00:46:28   answer of like well it's it's here's all [TS]

00:46:30   the ways it's already world-leading and [TS]

00:46:32   it's always getting better you know it's [TS]

00:46:33   it's it's a PR question that's going to [TS]

00:46:36   get a PR answer it's like all the [TS]

00:46:38   stupid analyst questions on the on the [TS]

00:46:40   earnings calls when you go make a TV [TS]

00:46:42   it's like you know that kind of stuff [TS]

00:46:43   that's not it's a useful question [TS]

00:46:45   because you know they're not really [TS]

00:46:47   going to give you an answer that you [TS]

00:46:48   want so you might as well not even waste [TS]

00:46:51   time on it and ask a better question so [TS]

00:46:53   I think you can ask this question in a [TS]

00:46:55   way they will get a non PR vague answer [TS]

00:46:59   because Apple itself open the door to [TS]

00:47:02   this line of questioning with their home [TS]

00:47:03   pod announcement I said this in the last [TS]

00:47:04   show too but to reiterate and further [TS]

00:47:07   emphasize Apple's pitch for home pod was [TS]

00:47:11   look at these two competitors Sonos and [TS]

00:47:13   the Amazon echo so know it sounds good [TS]

00:47:16   but it's dumb Amazon echo sounds like [TS]

00:47:18   crap but is smart home pod sounds great [TS]

00:47:21   and is smart typical great Apple sales [TS]

00:47:24   pitch for the thing right but the own [TS]

00:47:27   that so here's Apple opening the door [TS]

00:47:28   but the only thing Apple demonstrated or [TS]

00:47:31   in any way described both in the the [TS]

00:47:34   live room where the press could hear it [TS]

00:47:36   and in the slides they talked about it [TS]

00:47:37   well we know how home pod sounds good [TS]

00:47:39   because a whole bunch of people heard it [TS]

00:47:41   and they said hey this thing sounds good [TS]

00:47:43   it sounds you know as good or better [TS]

00:47:45   than the Sonos which was the thing app I [TS]

00:47:46   held up a sounding good but the pitch of [TS]

00:47:48   home pod is unlike those two other [TS]

00:47:50   devices this one sounds good and is [TS]

00:47:53   smart right Apple itself is saying we're [TS]

00:47:56   making a device that combines the best [TS]

00:47:58   of these two things so the is smart part [TS]

00:48:01   is your entree to say okay Apple you [TS]

00:48:03   have presented us with home pod telling [TS]

00:48:05   us it is going to be as smart as echo [TS]

00:48:07   and sound as good as Sonos do you think [TS]

00:48:11   Siri is currently a smart as echo or [TS]

00:48:13   will it be getting better for home pod [TS]

00:48:15   because it's not you know it's not a [TS]

00:48:16   gotcha question like they haven't is the [TS]

00:48:18   product isn't done yet like they did [TS]

00:48:20   list a bunch of stuff that it's going to [TS]

00:48:21   do on the slide here's all the things [TS]

00:48:22   that home pod is going to do that are [TS]

00:48:24   smart right so they put them up there [TS]

00:48:25   but I think it's open question at this [TS]

00:48:27   point okay like it gives them an [TS]

00:48:29   opportunity to brag about the product [TS]

00:48:31   they just announced they should say the [TS]

00:48:32   good answer is this is going to you know [TS]

00:48:35   home PI is going to be great it's going [TS]

00:48:36   to be just as smart as Amazon echo it's [TS]

00:48:38   going to do all these things so and so [TS]

00:48:39   forth that's the answer to when is Siri [TS]

00:48:40   going to get better it's going to say [TS]

00:48:41   okay when home pod comes out Siri will [TS]

00:48:44   be much better than it is now and they [TS]

00:48:46   can explain all the reasons why or the [TS]

00:48:48   progress they've made on Syria I feel [TS]

00:48:49   like it is an opening for Apple to bro [TS]

00:48:51   about the product they just announced [TS]

00:48:52   but in in the stuff that they put out in [TS]

00:48:55   the keynote and in every part of WWDC [TS]

00:48:58   the only thing they demonstrated or [TS]

00:49:01   pressed on at all was that it sounds [TS]

00:49:02   good and the smarts they're like it'll [TS]

00:49:05   be smart stresses we'll see which is [TS]

00:49:06   fine like but now that's what I'm [TS]

00:49:07   waiting for [TS]

00:49:08   is your kind of work if this thing is [TS]

00:49:09   just a Sonos you know if it's just a [TS]

00:49:11   Sonos with like existing Siri built-in I [TS]

00:49:13   mean I guess it's still smarter than [TS]

00:49:14   Sonos you know but is it as smart as [TS]

00:49:16   that go you know we'll see so I think [TS]

00:49:18   this is this is the competitive question [TS]

00:49:20   for the home pod Apple's pitch is clear [TS]

00:49:22   we have to see if they can deliver yeah [TS]

00:49:24   that's the thing like they really they [TS]

00:49:26   showed us the home pod and they showed [TS]

00:49:28   us why we should care about it and why [TS]

00:49:30   it's cool but they didn't they didn't [TS]

00:49:34   convince us like they didn't really like [TS]

00:49:37   all they said was basically like it [TS]

00:49:39   sounds great trust us and that's cool I [TS]

00:49:41   mean the press hard press harder and [TS]

00:49:43   they said it does sound good yep and [TS]

00:49:44   that's great but but again but you know [TS]

00:49:46   what you're saying is like that doesn't [TS]

00:49:48   actually put it above where show nose is [TS]

00:49:50   now all we have is a vague promise that [TS]

00:49:53   it has Siri and it is smart but they [TS]

00:49:56   didn't actually show that and I think [TS]

00:49:59   you're right I think it's mostly because [TS]

00:50:01   it's pretty clear that it's pretty far [TS]

00:50:04   from being done not done yet so like [TS]

00:50:06   they're hiding it if they could have [TS]

00:50:08   demoed it they would have yeah I would [TS]

00:50:10   honestly the the fact that it appears to [TS]

00:50:13   be in such an early state now if they [TS]

00:50:15   couldn't even demo a single Siri command [TS]

00:50:18   but they say it's going to be shipping [TS]

00:50:20   in December that actually sounds really [TS]

00:50:22   aggressive to me I would be impressed if [TS]

00:50:24   they hit that because it sure looks like [TS]

00:50:26   it's a year away one of the well as [TS]

00:50:28   December launches just in time for the [TS]

00:50:30   holiday oh never mind March we are [TS]

00:50:34   sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

00:50:35   investing made better go to betterment [TS]

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00:51:08   because they make everything really [TS]

00:51:09   really easy they've actually won awards [TS]

00:51:11   for their wonderful customer experience [TS]

00:51:13   you can actually see how easy it is on [TS]

00:51:15   the demo account on the website if you [TS]

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00:51:49   visit betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

00:51:53   betterment comm slash ATP betterment [TS]

00:51:56   investing made better all right [TS]

00:52:02   WBC keynote and TV OS one of you picked [TS]

00:52:06   up on and I it was not me a quote you'll [TS]

00:52:09   be hearing a lot more about TV OS later [TS]

00:52:12   this year and apparently it's a just shy [TS]

00:52:15   nine minutes through the keynote [TS]

00:52:16   interesting well first of all isn't hard [TS]

00:52:19   to hear less about TV OS yeah it's a lot [TS]

00:52:22   more though is it a lot we heard [TS]

00:52:24   something about TV OS they're like look [TS]

00:52:26   dark mode can turn on automatically at [TS]

00:52:27   night [TS]

00:52:28   that's something so it's nonzero and [TS]

00:52:30   we're gonna be hearing a lot more about [TS]

00:52:31   it later yeah I mean I guess that that [TS]

00:52:34   means is gonna be like hardware and [TS]

00:52:36   stuff like I'm sure that you know it [TS]

00:52:37   would be nice to see 4k it would nice to [TS]

00:52:39   see a redesign remote they're probably [TS]

00:52:41   gonna tell or redesign remote oh you [TS]

00:52:45   wanted to keep the current one I'm just [TS]

00:52:46   like I wasn't even daring to think that [TS]

00:52:49   I was just picturing the puck I'm like [TS]

00:52:50   oh it'll finally be a puck that supports [TS]

00:52:51   4k and HEV C and they'll be 4k content [TS]

00:52:54   on the iTunes Store I didn't dare to [TS]

00:52:55   even dream that they would fix that damn [TS]

00:52:57   remote but I suppose they could I [TS]

00:52:59   suspect the Apple TV remote is going to [TS]

00:53:02   be looked upon in retrospect the same [TS]

00:53:04   way the hockey puck Mouse is as like the [TS]

00:53:07   worst design offence of the decade by [TS]

00:53:09   Apple I really don't think it's that bad [TS]

00:53:11   I will not say it's flawless by any [TS]

00:53:13   stretch but it doesn't problem II near [TS]

00:53:15   as much as it bothers pretty much [TS]

00:53:17   everyone else in the world [TS]

00:53:18   so I will never do the dented version [TS]

00:53:20   the puck they they tried to like fix it [TS]

00:53:23   they're like Oh puck the fuck is a [TS]

00:53:24   problem so they put a little dent in [TS]

00:53:26   like the button so you could feel for [TS]

00:53:28   which side of is the top they should do [TS]

00:53:29   that with the whole TV remote [TS]

00:53:31   just put a dent and I guess you can't do [TS]

00:53:32   it on a trackpad so I'd put a dent in [TS]

00:53:34   the bottom side or something's you can [TS]

00:53:35   feel for I mean yeah it's it's not great [TS]

00:53:39   I'm not trying to say that it's grated [TS]

00:53:41   flawless or anything like that but I [TS]

00:53:42   just I really don't think it's that bad [TS]

00:53:44   it works okay for me okay it is that I [TS]

00:53:47   look better than the Apple TV remote [TS]

00:53:49   your computer was like turning itself [TS]

00:53:51   off randomly and you're like this is [TS]

00:53:53   fine like this you might you might need [TS]

00:53:57   to raise your expectations a bit of what [TS]

00:53:58   technology should be especially for my [TS]

00:54:00   evil you know like right this says [TS]

00:54:03   whatever would be happy oh the thing I [TS]

00:54:06   still use the Apple TV every day it is [TS]

00:54:08   our primary TV device like the only [TS]

00:54:11   things we ever use our TV for are the [TS]

00:54:13   Apple TV and the switch and and so it's [TS]

00:54:16   I use it all the time because why I'm so [TS]

00:54:18   critical of it like one thing I would [TS]

00:54:19   love to see in TV OS and this is thing [TS]

00:54:21   like they say like you know be hearing [TS]

00:54:22   more about TV iOS later this year [TS]

00:54:24   actually all I want is hardware stuff [TS]

00:54:27   like hardware changes I basically want a [TS]

00:54:30   new remote 4k would be nice I don't have [TS]

00:54:32   a 4k TV yet but it's probably going to [TS]

00:54:34   happen with the next couple years so [TS]

00:54:35   that would be nice and TV OS and maybe [TS]

00:54:40   it's the hardware maybe it's a software [TS]

00:54:41   I don't know it's just really slow I [TS]

00:54:45   don't know why this is current hardware [TS]

00:54:48   that isn't that old it's so slow I think [TS]

00:54:52   the remote makes it feel slow it like [TS]

00:54:54   because it's a clumsy if you don't like [TS]

00:54:56   so by the way we always complain about [TS]

00:54:57   the remote and I just want to [TS]

00:54:58   re-emphasize this again Apple TV has an [TS]

00:55:00   ability to learn remotes and if you are [TS]

00:55:02   a lifetime TiVo customer like me you [TS]

00:55:04   have extra TiVo remotes hanging around [TS]

00:55:06   you can use an old TiVo remote with the [TS]

00:55:08   Apple TV and makes it way better but um [TS]

00:55:10   it doesn't have touchpad obviously but [TS]

00:55:12   it has a five-way pad and I think [TS]

00:55:14   clumsily swiping on that touchpad to [TS]

00:55:16   move the focus feel slower than tap [TS]

00:55:20   tapping on a digital you know right left [TS]

00:55:22   up down Center d-pad so I attribute some [TS]

00:55:25   of the slowest in that there's more with [TS]

00:55:27   like hey I hit the little home button [TS]

00:55:30   how long does it take for me to get [TS]

00:55:32   out of this app and go back to the [TS]

00:55:33   whatever screen that also feels slow but [TS]

00:55:36   I tribute a lot of it to the remote well [TS]

00:55:37   and some of it's clearly software some [TS]

00:55:39   of it is like you know you'd like you [TS]

00:55:40   you wake up the remote when you're [TS]

00:55:42   sitting down and a few seconds later [TS]

00:55:45   eventually you see the home screen okay [TS]

00:55:48   swipe over to the thing you want oh [TS]

00:55:50   nothing happened [TS]

00:55:51   swipe swipe swipe swipe swipe swipe [TS]

00:55:52   swipe swipe wait wait what's going on [TS]

00:55:55   button button button swipe swipe swipe [TS]

00:55:56   come on push everything what's going on [TS]

00:55:57   wait wait wait [TS]

00:56:00   and then BOOM everything happens all was [TS]

00:56:02   queued up all that time is it come on [TS]

00:56:04   like what year is this like it this is [TS]

00:56:06   this device doesn't do that much like [TS]

00:56:09   what what what is it doing [TS]

00:56:10   is it conserving power all that time [TS]

00:56:13   they're not using it why it's part of [TS]

00:56:15   the wall like what is it doing I have no [TS]

00:56:17   idea what it's doing yeah [TS]

00:56:19   the sleep thing is the sleep thing is [TS]

00:56:21   brutal like I mean there's no fans there [TS]

00:56:24   just leave it on all the time I'll take [TS]

00:56:25   the energy cost if it means that I don't [TS]

00:56:27   have to wait for you know the internal [TS]

00:56:29   seven seconds that it takes to be ready [TS]

00:56:31   to respond to my commands but that's the [TS]

00:56:32   things about why it like in 2017 for the [TS]

00:56:36   most expensive TV connected box [TS]

00:56:38   why am I ever waiting on the box for [TS]

00:56:42   anything like why when I push the menu [TS]

00:56:46   button to wake it up why does it take [TS]

00:56:48   more than one second to become ready and [TS]

00:56:50   most of that one second should be [TS]

00:56:51   waiting for my TV to recognize the input [TS]

00:56:53   like there is no reason it should take [TS]

00:56:56   any time at all it's not doing that much [TS]

00:56:58   I don't have that many apps on it I'm [TS]

00:57:01   using the same like - over and over [TS]

00:57:02   again like Netflix and plex that's it [TS]

00:57:04   like what what is what is it doing so [TS]

00:57:07   the other hardware thing I'm looking [TS]

00:57:09   forward to is as alluded to in the the [TS]

00:57:12   promotion stuff a output at 24 or 48 or [TS]

00:57:16   whatever you know different frame rates [TS]

00:57:18   so that movies can look correct and so [TS]

00:57:21   it doesn't have to down sample [TS]

00:57:23   everything or whatever do three to pull [TS]

00:57:26   down to output everything at sixty Hertz [TS]

00:57:27   and that will be great I don't know if [TS]

00:57:31   that's in the cards I would assume it is [TS]

00:57:34   but a lot of the things that could [TS]

00:57:35   potentially that we talked about like [TS]

00:57:36   why does it happen already do this so [TS]

00:57:38   changing the output framerate is [TS]

00:57:41   annoying because of HDMI and [TS]

00:57:44   it's not an apple act experience [TS]

00:57:46   although what marketers subscribe isn't [TS]

00:57:47   exactly an apple like experience either [TS]

00:57:49   one possible way to sort of deal with [TS]

00:57:53   this is the same way LCD TVs dealt with [TS]

00:57:55   this and the past and probably still do [TS]

00:57:57   is to just take a really high frame rate [TS]

00:58:00   that's a multiple of 24 this isn't you [TS]

00:58:03   know you still ideally you should be [TS]

00:58:05   able to support any reasonable frame [TS]

00:58:07   rate but if you could just get 24 60 and [TS]

00:58:10   30 or something that would go a long way [TS]

00:58:14   so I'm I am looking forward to this is a [TS]

00:58:15   lot of things that I would like to watch [TS]

00:58:17   okay I had bought a blu-ray drive a [TS]

00:58:19   while back because it was cheap to rip [TS]

00:58:23   blu-rays so and I was like no well I [TS]

00:58:25   have all the storage space why don't I [TS]

00:58:26   lost Leslie rip them and have a way to [TS]

00:58:30   watch any movie a blu-ray quality [TS]

00:58:32   through Plex on my TV the problem is I [TS]

00:58:36   have no device connected to my [TS]

00:58:38   television that can read a ripped [TS]

00:58:40   blu-ray and play it on my television at [TS]

00:58:43   the correct 24 frames per second cadence [TS]

00:58:45   for you know movies and stuff so I still [TS]

00:58:47   have to put the blue area in the drive [TS]

00:58:49   in my PlayStation 3 by the way which [TS]

00:58:50   does output correct 24 frames per second [TS]

00:58:52   cadence to my television which does [TS]

00:58:54   display correctly and I can watch my [TS]

00:58:57   boos the way I want to with plastic [TS]

00:58:58   discs but I'm just waiting for maybe I [TS]

00:59:01   have to wait for a new TV but it could [TS]

00:59:02   be that Apple says now we're never going [TS]

00:59:04   to support 24 frames per second on your [TS]

00:59:05   old plasma TV get a new 4k TV with 240 [TS]

00:59:09   or 120 Hertz refresh and hook it up to a [TS]

00:59:11   new Apple TV and that's how we'll deal [TS]

00:59:14   with it and I suppose I'll do that like [TS]

00:59:15   Marco eventually fair enough but yeah [TS]

00:59:19   we'll see what the announcements that [TS]

00:59:21   are first coming include but apparently [TS]

00:59:23   whenever the next grant or season starts [TS]

00:59:26   if any of us choose to watch it which is [TS]

00:59:28   dateable I can tell you one thing I'm [TS]

00:59:30   not so yeah it's you guys if you want to [TS]

00:59:34   watch it [TS]

00:59:34   I certainly will but we'll see what [TS]

00:59:36   happens but anyway apparently that'll be [TS]

00:59:38   on the Apple TV I have to reserve all my [TS]

00:59:40   TV watching time now for planet of the [TS]

00:59:42   apps I didn't see the first one because [TS]

00:59:44   I'm not an apple music subscriber but [TS]

00:59:46   did you guys I haven't watched it's on [TS]

00:59:48   my to-do list I I did not do my homework [TS]

00:59:50   I did not watch planned out of the app [TS]

00:59:51   really but I do plan to watch it I I [TS]

00:59:55   think I should see it just [TS]

00:59:58   to know what it is and to know whether L [TS]

00:59:58   to know what it is and to know whether L [TS]

01:00:00   like it or not I'm gonna have a somewhat [TS]

01:00:02   interesting perspective maybe because [TS]

01:00:04   I've never seen shark tank or any of the [TS]

01:00:06   shows like shark tank so it might be [TS]

01:00:10   slightly interesting for me to see it [TS]

01:00:11   but I based on the reviews from our [TS]

01:00:13   friends stuff so far I don't have high [TS]

01:00:15   hopes but I do want to give it a chance [TS]

01:00:17   yeah I'm gonna need a reason right now I [TS]

01:00:23   don't have a reason and everyone who has [TS]

01:00:24   seen it tells me it's bad so until I get [TS]

01:00:27   a reason I will just let everyone else [TS]

01:00:28   take that bullet for me fair enough all [TS]

01:00:31   right [TS]

01:00:33   iCloud storage prices Apple dropped the [TS]

01:00:36   two terabyte iCloud storage price to [TS]

01:00:38   $9.99 it eliminated one terabyte option [TS]

01:00:40   so the one terabyte now is 2 terabytes [TS]

01:00:43   it turns out Jason Snow had that upgrade [TS]

01:00:46   happened to him one of you it sounds [TS]

01:00:47   like had that upgrade happen as well yep [TS]

01:00:49   came from back from that video you see [TS]

01:00:51   pulled up my preference pane on my que [TS]

01:00:53   guess what I got two terabytes now me [TS]

01:00:55   too Merry Christmas and it actually and [TS]

01:00:57   you can now share it with in families so [TS]

01:00:59   I haven't actually tried this yet but [TS]

01:01:01   TIFF and I have each been paying for the [TS]

01:01:03   terabyte plan separately and we do have [TS]

01:01:05   a family account so I want to try to see [TS]

01:01:08   they might have just saved this 10 bucks [TS]

01:01:09   a month do you know where you do that we [TS]

01:01:11   mentioned it I actually mentioned the [TS]

01:01:12   iCloud storage sharing on the last show [TS]

01:01:16   but between then and now I never [TS]

01:01:17   actually went onto my Mac and click [TS]

01:01:19   around to try to figure out where you do [TS]

01:01:20   that you happen to know I don't know [TS]

01:01:22   family like manage family and the iCloud [TS]

01:01:24   preferring Sam the geek and the chat is [TS]

01:01:26   saying it requires iOS 11 which probably [TS]

01:01:28   also means it requires high sierra and [TS]

01:01:31   so as yeah so i'm this is this might be [TS]

01:01:35   it has to wait till the fall yeah oh [TS]

01:01:37   well can we also by the way this is not [TS]

01:01:39   in the show notes but can we reconfirm [TS]

01:01:42   that hi Sierra is a terrible damn name [TS]

01:01:43   yeah I'm still not used to it no it's [TS]

01:01:45   awesome [TS]

01:01:45   alright pejorative rules sucks moving on [TS]

01:01:48   and RuPaul's writes he hit regarding the [TS]

01:01:51   Apple II GPU in the slide in the [TS]

01:01:55   presentation in the in the keynote [TS]

01:01:56   according to Andrew the pictured box is [TS]

01:01:59   actually a sonnet eg FX box and we will [TS]

01:02:03   put a link in the show notes to the box [TS]

01:02:06   that we're talking about can you buy [TS]

01:02:09   this so it says sign up for sonnet [TS]

01:02:11   online shorter online store ship date so [TS]

01:02:13   pair [TS]

01:02:13   it is not available yet I mean you've [TS]

01:02:16   been able to buy other similar boxes for [TS]

01:02:18   a while now so it's not like this is a [TS]

01:02:20   massive yeah you know thing that's [TS]

01:02:22   that's all the sudden brand new maybe [TS]

01:02:24   different maybe support for it in the OS [TS]

01:02:26   is newer than that but the actual boxes [TS]

01:02:29   are nothing new yeah people have been [TS]

01:02:30   hacking this stuff together ever since [TS]

01:02:32   Thunderbolt appeared even Thunderbolt 2 [TS]

01:02:34   and by the way someone wrote in saying [TS]

01:02:36   that if you're wondering if Thunderbolt [TS]

01:02:39   2 is going to be officially supported by [TS]

01:02:40   Apple for external GPUs the answer [TS]

01:02:42   appears to be no Thunderbolt 3 only so [TS]

01:02:44   oh well and by the way on that topic [TS]

01:02:47   talk about more things that happen later [TS]

01:02:49   than vici WABC Apple itself in one of [TS]

01:02:51   the one of the sessions I think it was [TS]

01:02:52   the AR or the VR thing or something put [TS]

01:02:54   up a diagram that like with it with a [TS]

01:02:57   graph that in no uncertain terms [TS]

01:02:59   explained exactly how slow ton or [TS]

01:03:01   Thunderbolt 3 is compared to like [TS]

01:03:03   internal cards to say all right so does [TS]

01:03:06   it's for programmers like you would [TS]

01:03:07   think ok internal GPU external GPO it [TS]

01:03:10   doesn't make that much of a difference [TS]

01:03:11   it's like it's all good Thunderbolt 3 is [TS]

01:03:13   really fast but it's not it's like a [TS]

01:03:15   quarter of the speed of an internal card [TS]

01:03:17   and maybe your application doesn't need [TS]

01:03:19   that but if you're not careful and you [TS]

01:03:20   don't realize that your application is [TS]

01:03:22   shipping stuff to and from the card a [TS]

01:03:23   lot you're thinking a way slower an [TS]

01:03:25   external GPU in this session was trying [TS]

01:03:26   to emphasize like this is something you [TS]

01:03:28   may not need to think about before but [TS]

01:03:30   suddenly now that you're sipping through [TS]

01:03:31   a smaller straw think you know you may [TS]

01:03:34   need to think about it here's how you [TS]

01:03:35   can you know check your application to [TS]

01:03:37   see if it's doing this thing it's you [TS]

01:03:40   know Apple is not a unified coordinated [TS]

01:03:42   beast so it's very possible that that [TS]

01:03:45   could have happened and also that that [TS]

01:03:47   the future Mac Pro comes with a next [TS]

01:03:48   term GPU or something but it seems to me [TS]

01:03:50   that it would be a much better story [TS]

01:03:52   much better coherent story even if it's [TS]

01:03:54   like you know a retrospective story or [TS]

01:03:58   in hindsight to say and that's why the [TS]

01:04:00   Mac Pro has multiple internal GPUs [TS]

01:04:02   because we don't have to worry about [TS]

01:04:03   limited Thunderbolt 3 been we've got the [TS]

01:04:06   full 16 PCI Express Lanes and your apps [TS]

01:04:08   will just be superfast all the time and [TS]

01:04:10   there's your Mac Pro I hope that's the [TS]

01:04:13   case [TS]

01:04:13   yeah I mean that's gotta be the case [TS]

01:04:15   because like if that wasn't the case the [TS]

01:04:17   iMac pro would beat the Mac Pro in GPU [TS]

01:04:20   throughput well there's no external [TS]

01:04:21   stuff on my micro its all-in-one yeah so [TS]

01:04:23   no I'm pretty you know the e GPU support [TS]

01:04:26   is [TS]

01:04:27   is clearly meant for laptops like that's [TS]

01:04:29   really what this is for it's for pro [TS]

01:04:32   customers who have pro GPU needs who are [TS]

01:04:34   using a MacBook Pro and they and they [TS]

01:04:36   want something they can like dock with [TS]

01:04:38   that has a big GPU for certain things [TS]

01:04:40   but if you're going to be really pushing [TS]

01:04:42   it the answer is still going to be get a [TS]

01:04:44   desktop and probably get a Mac Pro or at [TS]

01:04:47   least my Mac Pro indeed all right uh [TS]

01:04:51   mattias bessman writes in with some [TS]

01:04:54   nitpicky follow up in into his credit he [TS]

01:04:57   actually labeled it himself as nitpicky [TS]

01:05:00   follow-up Apple did actually have a [TS]

01:05:02   previous Bluetooth keep on stealing [TS]

01:05:05   Hackett they wrote this in Apple Apple [TS]

01:05:07   that did actually have a Bluetooth uh [TS]

01:05:08   keyboard on pad previously the Apple [TS]

01:05:11   wireless keyboard which is a one zero [TS]

01:05:13   one six and this was in 2003 uh we will [TS]

01:05:16   put a google image search in the show [TS]

01:05:19   notes for your viewing pleasure [TS]

01:05:20   apparently it was a thing in the past [TS]

01:05:22   and this is remember the keyboard I [TS]

01:05:25   remember the I remember seeing it I [TS]

01:05:28   never bought a Mac that came with this [TS]

01:05:29   but when I was Matt curious for the few [TS]

01:05:32   years before about my first Mac this was [TS]

01:05:34   the one that was in the stores that I [TS]

01:05:35   would that I would play with and then [TS]

01:05:37   and try it's the one with the with the [TS]

01:05:39   white keys and the clear plastic case [TS]

01:05:41   around them so I've got one of these I'm [TS]

01:05:44   course again full unsub might write this [TS]

01:05:46   keyboard is most notable for being [TS]

01:05:50   perhaps the most disgusting keyboard [TS]

01:05:52   apple has ever made because like the [TS]

01:05:54   entire top of it is open it's kind of [TS]

01:05:55   like a bathtub like a clear plastic [TS]

01:05:57   little tub and the keys are in it and it [TS]

01:06:00   as like food and gross stuff falls [TS]

01:06:03   between the keys the keyboard you can [TS]

01:06:05   see it's like a glass-bottom boat for [TS]

01:06:07   the scum of your keyboard you can see [TS]

01:06:09   all the crap it is the worst like [TS]

01:06:11   nothing makes you feel more disgusting [TS]

01:06:13   than having one of these keyboards than [TS]

01:06:14   just like tilting it up and looking at [TS]

01:06:16   the sides at the bottom like the worst [TS]

01:06:19   it's amazing sounds wonderful ever since [TS]

01:06:22   then they've been opaque for a reason [TS]

01:06:24   and way thinner like this is giant like [TS]

01:06:26   this thing do you believe talk about key [TS]

01:06:27   travel like the keys alone or like three [TS]

01:06:29   times the thickness of the half aluminum [TS]

01:06:31   key ports I would still prefer that oh [TS]

01:06:33   here we go the keys the keys on this car [TS]

01:06:36   keyboard were not great by the way like [TS]

01:06:38   this like I was using like the reason I [TS]

01:06:40   use my Apple extend [TS]

01:06:40   - up until our si stopped me from doing [TS]

01:06:42   it this was not a good keyboard in any [TS]

01:06:45   sense of the word if we just not get [TS]

01:06:47   Marco started on keyboards which [TS]

01:06:48   actually uh tangential real-time [TS]

01:06:51   follow-up my MacBook adorable should [TS]

01:06:54   arrive tomorrow oh you don't have it yet [TS]

01:06:55   oh yeah once I know about it yeah no not [TS]

01:06:58   until tomorrow unfortunately but uh and [TS]

01:06:59   in knowing GPS it'll be the end of the [TS]

01:07:01   darn day which is frost will like [TS]

01:07:04   several problems yep personal problems [TS]

01:07:06   if there are any uh okay moving on uh [TS]

01:07:08   there was some anonymous feedback about [TS]

01:07:10   the home pod screen and and we're [TS]

01:07:13   putting them quotes and so to set a [TS]

01:07:16   little bit of context um there is [TS]

01:07:19   there's been a little bit of debate over [TS]

01:07:21   whether or not the home pod has a screen [TS]

01:07:25   on the top and I think that some people [TS]

01:07:28   had said like there were some leaks [TS]

01:07:29   beforehand that it either absolutely [TS]

01:07:32   would or absolutely would not have a [TS]

01:07:34   screen and whatever the leak was doesn't [TS]

01:07:35   really matter and then when I when it [TS]

01:07:38   was announced last week there was a lot [TS]

01:07:41   of debate over whether or not what they [TS]

01:07:43   showed is or is not a screen because all [TS]

01:07:46   they really showed was this like Siri [TS]

01:07:48   waveform on the top of the device this [TS]

01:07:50   is parallel with like the the surface [TS]

01:07:52   its resting on parallel with the floor [TS]

01:07:54   it's the Siri looking waveform on the [TS]

01:07:56   top is that really a scream like you [TS]

01:07:59   could hypothetically present that just [TS]

01:08:02   by by having some LEDs like a you know a [TS]

01:08:04   handful of larger LED lights behind some [TS]

01:08:06   sort of like translucent top [TS]

01:08:09   can you really interact with that can [TS]

01:08:10   you show anything on that screen or can [TS]

01:08:12   you only show the waveform and nothing [TS]

01:08:14   else and so and also complicating [TS]

01:08:16   matters some people have said that it [TS]

01:08:19   can also show a plus and minus for [TS]

01:08:21   volume control that are touch sensitive [TS]

01:08:23   so there's some speculation but is it [TS]

01:08:25   it's actually a touchscreen right and so [TS]

01:08:27   there was some debate about this gruber [TS]

01:08:29   I don't remember what side he came down [TS]

01:08:31   on it doesn't really matter but he said [TS]

01:08:33   it's one thing there are many people who [TS]

01:08:35   disagreed so an anonymous person wrote [TS]

01:08:37   in and told it's told us the following [TS]

01:08:39   the Siri waveform on the top of the [TS]

01:08:40   device is an LED array covered by a [TS]

01:08:42   circular feathered mask to prevent bleed [TS]

01:08:45   and a diffuser or two each led is rather [TS]

01:08:49   large about half a centimeter in [TS]

01:08:50   diameter arranged in a somewhat circular [TS]

01:08:52   pattern [TS]

01:08:53   this is only to display the Siri [TS]

01:08:55   waveform but it does change behavior in [TS]

01:08:57   color based on the state of Siri and the [TS]

01:09:00   device there are also plus and minus [TS]

01:09:02   buttons like Marco was commenting on for [TS]

01:09:04   volume control which appeared during [TS]

01:09:05   music playback or when hovering your [TS]

01:09:07   hand over the device these work [TS]

01:09:08   similarly similarly to the waveform and [TS]

01:09:10   that they are white LEDs covered by mask [TS]

01:09:12   and diffuser the entire top panel is [TS]

01:09:14   covered in glass this individual would [TS]

01:09:16   consider the controls more like a [TS]

01:09:17   capacitive more like a passive buttons [TS]

01:09:19   rather than a full-on display however [TS]

01:09:20   the entire top panel is capacitive so [TS]

01:09:22   gestures could hypothetically be [TS]

01:09:24   performed for additional controls like a [TS]

01:09:26   tap double tap swipe et cetera and this [TS]

01:09:29   seems to be true as of what we saw at [TS]

01:09:32   dub dub I don't know where I come down [TS]

01:09:35   on this like I don't think it's a screen [TS]

01:09:38   in the sense that most people mean and [TS]

01:09:40   that it can show really anything I mean [TS]

01:09:43   if that's the screen then the Amazon [TS]

01:09:45   echo has a screen because the Amika the [TS]

01:09:46   echo also has a whole bunch of LEDs on [TS]

01:09:48   top that show different states right so [TS]

01:09:51   it's it's it's like a semantic I think [TS]

01:09:54   it comes down to a semantic argument [TS]

01:09:56   about what is or is not a screen and I [TS]

01:09:58   don't think it really matters but this [TS]

01:10:00   was certainly some interesting feedback [TS]

01:10:01   about how supposedly this is all wired [TS]

01:10:04   together under the hood yeah I mean [TS]

01:10:05   that's that's that's not a screen that's [TS]

01:10:07   indicator lights you know it's it's [TS]

01:10:09   indicating state with lights like that [TS]

01:10:11   that is very much not a screen that [TS]

01:10:14   might still be very useful I mean the [TS]

01:10:16   LEDs on the Amazon echo cylinders are [TS]

01:10:18   very useful they're they're quite nice [TS]

01:10:19   they they do indicate the state of the [TS]

01:10:21   device and they provide useful feedback [TS]

01:10:23   so it's not to say that this is bad [TS]

01:10:26   however I would never in a million your [TS]

01:10:28   status has a screen and I think in this [TS]

01:10:31   day and age I think what we're seeing [TS]

01:10:33   from this market is maybe there's [TS]

01:10:36   something to having a screen there are [TS]

01:10:38   certainly cases where at least having [TS]

01:10:39   some kind of screen output would be nice [TS]

01:10:43   such as watching a timer countdown so it [TS]

01:10:46   depends I think if this is very early [TS]

01:10:50   Hardware probably you know this is [TS]

01:10:51   probably why you couldn't even you know [TS]

01:10:53   demo Siri and stuff on it so this could [TS]

01:10:56   change that could be a placeholder maybe [TS]

01:10:58   maybe the software UI for the final [TS]

01:11:02   screen that will be there wasn't ready [TS]

01:11:05   yet and so they just put this thing in [TS]

01:11:06   there as a temper [TS]

01:11:07   anything to show the demo units during [TS]

01:11:09   this like listening test and stuff we [TS]

01:11:11   don't actually know yet it does seem [TS]

01:11:13   like a lot of stuff to put in there - [TS]

01:11:16   and have like a big touch panel - then [TS]

01:11:18   not have at least a small OLED screen [TS]

01:11:21   below like I'm thinking basically have [TS]

01:11:23   it be like you know that roughly the [TS]

01:11:26   capabilities of an Apple watch face you [TS]

01:11:27   know like not having a ton of smarts and [TS]

01:11:29   a time like you know lots of apps and [TS]

01:11:30   everything but just like some display of [TS]

01:11:32   some things clock weather timers you [TS]

01:11:35   know basic stuff like that so that when [TS]

01:11:37   you when you ask for things it can be [TS]

01:11:38   more useful that would be nice however [TS]

01:11:40   if the focus of this is going to remain [TS]

01:11:43   pretty much mostly for music and then [TS]

01:11:46   just a little bit for smart home stuff [TS]

01:11:48   basically the way it was presented to us [TS]

01:11:51   then it doesn't maybe need a screen like [TS]

01:11:54   if the idea of this is to have it in a [TS]

01:11:56   big white IKEA room with nothing in it [TS]

01:11:58   and you're looking at it from 10 feet [TS]

01:12:00   away when you ask it to play something [TS]

01:12:02   by Drake or whoever that I don't know [TS]

01:12:06   anything about music [TS]

01:12:07   at least modern music then it doesn't [TS]

01:12:11   then it wouldn't need a screen [TS]

01:12:12   especially one on top because you won't [TS]

01:12:14   be able to see it from 10 feet away but [TS]

01:12:16   if you're if you if it is going to [TS]

01:12:18   compete also in the smart assistant area [TS]

01:12:21   which I think it should and I would like [TS]

01:12:23   it to then I don't think for a three [TS]

01:12:27   hundred and fifty dollar product I don't [TS]

01:12:28   think that's good enough I I think it [TS]

01:12:30   should have a small screen that can [TS]

01:12:32   actually do things like display timers [TS]

01:12:33   and so I hope this is just a placeholder [TS]

01:12:36   hardware thing until they get the final [TS]

01:12:38   Hardware done or it's also possible this [TS]

01:12:41   tip is complete garbage Jen total BS and [TS]

01:12:43   maybe that was actually a bitmap screen [TS]

01:12:45   but from the way people were describing [TS]

01:12:46   it who saw it who had hands-on or if you [TS]

01:12:50   know but had hands-on but people were [TS]

01:12:51   like in the room with it yep and from [TS]

01:12:55   what we saw this does sound like a [TS]

01:12:57   pretty plausible explanation for what [TS]

01:12:59   that was sure and why there's why there [TS]

01:13:01   is now this kind of disagreement on [TS]

01:13:03   whether and I has a screen because it [TS]

01:13:04   kind of looks like one but this explains [TS]

01:13:06   it pretty well so does the echo have a [TS]

01:13:09   touchpad on top of it no it has the the [TS]

01:13:11   whole top of the echo is is a turnable [TS]

01:13:13   knob so you can turn it for volume which [TS]

01:13:15   is very nice and it has a physical [TS]

01:13:17   channel yeah and it has two physical [TS]

01:13:19   buttons on top a mute and like a [TS]

01:13:21   like an action buttons like if a timers [TS]

01:13:22   beeping you can hit the action button it [TS]

01:13:24   stops it rather than having to say [TS]

01:13:25   ├Člook stop so on the Google home it [TS]

01:13:28   seems like they're doing a very similar [TS]

01:13:30   thing to the Apple thing where it is a [TS]

01:13:32   bunch of colored LEDs like light [TS]

01:13:34   changing LEDs underneath the diffuser [TS]

01:13:36   type thing and for volume control in the [TS]

01:13:39   Google home you trace out a circle along [TS]

01:13:42   the line of the circle of elseit like it [TS]

01:13:44   basically it's a touch pad like a very [TS]

01:13:46   crude trackpad type thing an apple [TS]

01:13:49   having a whole glass top and according [TS]

01:13:52   if we should this thing is to be [TS]

01:13:53   believed supporting not just arbitrary [TS]

01:13:56   gestures like you would on a trackpad on [TS]

01:13:58   the glass top of it but also apparently [TS]

01:14:00   like hovering so the most that proximity [TS]

01:14:02   detection like when your hand gets close [TS]

01:14:03   to it the plus and the minus is light up [TS]

01:14:05   yeah that definitely makes me think that [TS]

01:14:07   this is not a temporary piece of [TS]

01:14:09   hardware but like the day but this is [TS]

01:14:11   this is a design that they have done [TS]

01:14:13   whether they whether this is an earlier [TS]

01:14:15   design and they have already changed [TS]

01:14:17   their mind but they don't have a [TS]

01:14:18   manufacturer and they're going to put a [TS]

01:14:19   screen I'm not sure but the second thing [TS]

01:14:21   is what marketers point out they can't [TS]

01:14:23   put a screen on this to any great effect [TS]

01:14:25   unless they totally redesign because a [TS]

01:14:26   screen that faces the ceiling it's [TS]

01:14:28   better than nothing but it's pretty crap [TS]

01:14:30   compared to you know the Amazon whatever [TS]

01:14:33   show thing like you can't glance at this [TS]

01:14:35   from across the kitchen to see it your [TS]

01:14:37   timer is because you probably won't even [TS]

01:14:39   be able to see the top of it to see the [TS]

01:14:40   time or time needs to be facing you you [TS]

01:14:42   need the perfectly like multiple timers [TS]

01:14:44   you can't sort of see it at an angle [TS]

01:14:46   depending on where you nestle this thing [TS]

01:14:48   in the corner so they need an entirely [TS]

01:14:50   different device if they're going to go [TS]

01:14:51   screen all which makes me think this [TS]

01:14:53   thing on the top will be a thing that [TS]

01:14:55   you can gesture and wiggle your fingers [TS]

01:14:57   on and have some status information on [TS]

01:14:59   but not a thing that Apple expects you [TS]

01:15:01   to look at because it's just in the [TS]

01:15:02   wrong place we are sponsored this week [TS]

01:15:05   by Indo Chino go to Indo Chino calm and [TS]

01:15:08   use code ATP to get any premium suit for [TS]

01:15:10   just 379 Indo Chino makes [TS]

01:15:13   made-to-measure suits you actually take [TS]

01:15:16   your measurements and there's great [TS]

01:15:18   videos to show you how to do this on [TS]

01:15:19   their site and everything it's very very [TS]

01:15:21   easy to do and they custom make a suit [TS]

01:15:24   so you know you can get a generic [TS]

01:15:25   off-the-rack suit and it'll it'll [TS]

01:15:27   probably fit okay you know if you ever [TS]

01:15:29   like rented a tux for a wedding or like [TS]

01:15:31   you've seen this you know probably most [TS]

01:15:33   suits that most people have [TS]

01:15:35   are not really tailored there's [TS]

01:15:36   off-the-rack and they fit you okay at [TS]

01:15:39   best but there's always like some part [TS]

01:15:41   that's a little too baggy you're a [TS]

01:15:42   little too tight or doesn't flatter you [TS]

01:15:44   well so one option you have is you can [TS]

01:15:46   get them custom tailored and that's good [TS]

01:15:48   that's better than nothing but there's [TS]

01:15:50   only so much the custom tailoring can do [TS]

01:15:53   to a suit that wasn't really made for [TS]

01:15:54   you [TS]

01:15:55   Indo Chino has completely made to order [TS]

01:15:57   suits so this is made for you from the [TS]

01:16:01   start so it fits you better it looks [TS]

01:16:03   better and you feel better in it then [TS]

01:16:05   anything else ever could and everybody [TS]

01:16:08   looks better when their clothes are more [TS]

01:16:10   fit to them and Indo Chino makes this [TS]

01:16:13   easy at an incredible price that's [TS]

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01:16:20   styles linings there's so many great [TS]

01:16:22   things you can choose the new Chino [TS]

01:16:24   they have suited up hundreds of [TS]

01:16:26   thousands of people and they are now the [TS]

01:16:27   largest made-to-measure menswear brand [TS]

01:16:29   in the world so you pick what you want [TS]

01:16:31   you given your measurements you place [TS]

01:16:34   your order and it arrives in just a few [TS]

01:16:35   weeks this week you can get any premium [TS]

01:16:38   Indo Chino suit for just 379 at Indo [TS]

01:16:42   Chino calm when using code ATP at [TS]

01:16:44   checkout this is 50% off the regular [TS]

01:16:46   price for suits of this class and this [TS]

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01:17:01   free shipping this is an incredible deal [TS]

01:17:03   for a suit that will fit you better than [TS]

01:17:05   anything off the rack ever could thank [TS]

01:17:07   you so much to endo Chino for sponsoring [TS]

01:17:08   our show all right so moving on to iPad [TS]

01:17:14   we have a bunch of things to talk about [TS]

01:17:16   but about the iPad and some of it we'll [TS]

01:17:18   cover this week and I think some of it [TS]

01:17:19   will cover next week because we have [TS]

01:17:21   some food stories to tell but a friend [TS]

01:17:23   of the show serenity Caldwell has [TS]

01:17:25   written a lot about the iPad has used [TS]

01:17:28   the new iPad quite a bit and has tweeted [TS]

01:17:31   about the iPad a fair bit so I'm just [TS]

01:17:34   going to kind of shock it approach some [TS]

01:17:36   of the things she's talked about one of [TS]

01:17:38   the things she was speaking of now [TS]

01:17:39   serenity if you don't know her is a very [TS]

01:17:41   talented illustrator I don't know if [TS]

01:17:44   she's like professionally trained or not [TS]

01:17:45   but Tamiya she's really really good at [TS]

01:17:46   it and so she has [TS]

01:17:48   some very strong and in in in good [TS]

01:17:51   opinions about the pencil in a way that [TS]

01:17:53   I would never be able to because I don't [TS]

01:17:55   know how to draw anything but stick [TS]

01:17:56   figures so so any was saying that the [TS]

01:17:58   pencil has always been 240 Hertz on both [TS]

01:18:03   old and new iPad pros Lightroom it [TS]

01:18:07   samples a 240 Hertz right but the [TS]

01:18:09   difference is is that the touch input on [TS]

01:18:12   and in in bear correct me if I get this [TS]

01:18:15   wrong the touch input on the old pros [TS]

01:18:17   was much slower than 120 Hertz is that [TS]

01:18:21   right yeah touch was sampled at I [TS]

01:18:24   believe only 60 because touch I believe [TS]

01:18:26   was sampled with the rest of the display [TS]

01:18:27   only the pencil was sampled at the super [TS]

01:18:30   high rate I think I know at least the [TS]

01:18:33   pencil was but I think only the pencil [TS]

01:18:35   was and then also the framerate of the [TS]

01:18:37   display of the entire UI was 60 frames [TS]

01:18:39   per second I think she's saying that [TS]

01:18:41   touch was 120 okay so no matter it says [TS]

01:18:44   in her tweet you know so it's the [TS]

01:18:45   difference between input and output [TS]

01:18:46   touch input was 120 pencil to 40 but [TS]

01:18:48   output was only 60 so there you go the [TS]

01:18:51   point we're driving at is the particular [TS]

01:18:52   numbers don't actually matter that much [TS]

01:18:54   it's just the point it's just that it's [TS]

01:18:55   all better now [TS]

01:18:57   so so serenity continues you know that [TS]

01:18:59   was great info for predicting lines in [TS]

01:19:01   touch but it couldn't render the input [TS]

01:19:03   at the rate it was being given with [TS]

01:19:05   these new pros the screen can now output [TS]

01:19:07   at 120 Hertz so touches at par pencil [TS]

01:19:11   input is closer to par less prediction [TS]

01:19:13   and more accuracy and so there's a [TS]

01:19:16   series of tweets that we'll put in the [TS]

01:19:18   show notes talking about all this and [TS]

01:19:21   one of them if I open these up I believe [TS]

01:19:24   she has a video do we have that here the [TS]

01:19:26   video of her showing the difference [TS]

01:19:30   between the two different devices the [TS]

01:19:34   old iPad pro and the new one if we don't [TS]

01:19:35   have that in the show notes and I'll try [TS]

01:19:37   to dig it up but uh it's just it's it's [TS]

01:19:39   in some rates damned impressive it [TS]

01:19:41   really really is it's super duper [TS]

01:19:43   impressive yeah this is the kind of [TS]

01:19:45   thing that I I wish I used the pencil [TS]

01:19:48   more I wish I had that kind of [TS]

01:19:49   sensibility and habit I don't but I wish [TS]

01:19:52   I did because seeing serenity do stuff [TS]

01:19:55   with it in person everybody see like wow [TS]

01:19:57   it's like I mean first of all I guess [TS]

01:19:59   she's really good that's but you know [TS]

01:20:01   it's typically it's a [TS]

01:20:02   you know the talent of the person is way [TS]

01:20:04   more important than the tools and most [TS]

01:20:05   of these things but just has a nerd [TS]

01:20:07   looking at the tools wow they're [TS]

01:20:09   impressive wickets I could not believe [TS]

01:20:12   the latency and and just the the [TS]

01:20:15   smoothness of it it it is incredible and [TS]

01:20:19   if you are a heavy pencil user I highly [TS]

01:20:24   suggest you consider upgrading your iPad [TS]

01:20:27   because it is it is remarkably different [TS]

01:20:31   like I was able to see it side-by-side [TS]

01:20:32   and and it really is a a big difference [TS]

01:20:36   don't tell my wife because then I have [TS]

01:20:38   to buy other iPad so yeah this the [TS]

01:20:40   sample-rate thing like it may seem weird [TS]

01:20:42   to people that both the previous and the [TS]

01:20:44   new iPads are sampling at a faster rate [TS]

01:20:48   than the screen could display because [TS]

01:20:50   it's true both of them because the you [TS]

01:20:51   know the pencils are 240 and now the [TS]

01:20:53   screen is only 120 and back then the [TS]

01:20:55   pencil was 240 the screen is only 60 [TS]

01:20:56   what good what good is it to sample if [TS]

01:20:59   your output is only a fraction of that [TS]

01:21:01   frame rate and as certainty points out [TS]

01:21:03   it's about knowing where the implement [TS]

01:21:06   whether it be your finger or the pencil [TS]

01:21:07   is so you can make predictions about the [TS]

01:21:10   line it's kind of like client-side [TS]

01:21:11   prediction and first-person shooters and [TS]

01:21:13   that you want it to feel like there's [TS]

01:21:15   less latency than there is and so as the [TS]

01:21:18   pencil list is gliding along even though [TS]

01:21:20   you don't get to display this frame and [TS]

01:21:22   you don't get to display this frame but [TS]

01:21:24   you're sampling it fast enough that you [TS]

01:21:25   know okay now I know where it is and [TS]

01:21:27   even time to render this frame and so it [TS]

01:21:30   reduces the perceived latency and [TS]

01:21:32   surroundings number earth were twenty [TS]

01:21:34   milliseconds versus fifty so the old [TS]

01:21:36   pencil was 50 milliseconds the new one [TS]

01:21:37   is 20 and the pencils being sampled at [TS]

01:21:40   exactly the same rate 240 Hertz on both [TS]

01:21:42   the old and the new the difference is [TS]

01:21:44   all about the display can now refresh [TS]

01:21:47   more frequently and once again referring [TS]

01:21:49   to that I was at the Microsoft video up [TS]

01:21:51   with their little test demo device where [TS]

01:21:53   they can scale the latency from like a [TS]

01:21:55   hundred to ten to one all right so this [TS]

01:21:58   have the latency less than you know so [TS]

01:21:59   it was it got cut and cut in half even [TS]

01:22:02   more more than half how close are we to [TS]

01:22:06   an actual pencil which is zero [TS]

01:22:09   milliseconds latency in the demo video [TS]

01:22:13   we'll put a link in the show notes 10 [TS]

01:22:15   mil [TS]

01:22:15   Ekans still feels better than then [TS]

01:22:20   obviously better than 100 and probably [TS]

01:22:22   better than 20 one millisecond looks a [TS]

01:22:26   lot better than 10 so if you want to say [TS]

01:22:27   like how close are we for this being [TS]

01:22:29   just like real pencil we're getting [TS]

01:22:31   close but we're still in order of [TS]

01:22:33   magnitude off we're still you know 20 [TS]

01:22:35   versus one so hold on tight for I guess [TS]

01:22:38   you know five years from now we can get [TS]

01:22:41   it down from 20 milliseconds to five or [TS]

01:22:43   something and we'll start to be in the [TS]

01:22:44   ballpark and then things start to get [TS]

01:22:46   really interesting also one more reason [TS]

01:22:48   why you want to sample the pencil at a [TS]

01:22:51   faster rate than just the display [TS]

01:22:52   possibly is that if you're making if [TS]

01:22:56   you're drawing very very like big lines [TS]

01:22:59   quickly so like you're moving there's a [TS]

01:23:01   lot of motion happening if you're only [TS]

01:23:03   sampling it at 60 Hertz you might or [TS]

01:23:06   even hundred twenty Hertz like if you're [TS]

01:23:09   drawing really fast big squiggly lines [TS]

01:23:11   the the number of points that you're [TS]

01:23:14   capturing might be further apart than [TS]

01:23:17   the pixels and so you have to then if [TS]

01:23:19   you're drawing a line like that from the [TS]

01:23:21   software side you just have to [TS]

01:23:22   interpolate you have to write well it [TS]

01:23:24   went from this dot to this dot and we'll [TS]

01:23:25   assume it's going to be a smooth curve [TS]

01:23:27   between those two dots and the higher [TS]

01:23:30   sampling rate is the less interpolation [TS]

01:23:32   you have to do and the more the more [TS]

01:23:34   you're actually capturing what the [TS]

01:23:36   movement was that the artist was doing [TS]

01:23:39   if they're making a really big fast [TS]

01:23:40   stroke yeah and it take time to render [TS]

01:23:43   frames to you so you always have to pick [TS]

01:23:44   like okay tell me where all the inputs [TS]

01:23:46   are because I'm going to start doing the [TS]

01:23:48   work to draw the screen and then it says [TS]

01:23:50   okay I got all your inputs and that [TS]

01:23:52   input if it was exactly the same frame [TS]

01:23:54   rate as a screen you might fall on a [TS]

01:23:55   boundary where like oh I would have [TS]

01:23:57   liked to wait three more milliseconds [TS]

01:23:59   and get the next input and that would [TS]

01:24:01   you know that would be a better [TS]

01:24:03   prediction but it turns out there you [TS]

01:24:04   know they weren't lined up in the credit [TS]

01:24:06   video games have a lot of problems with [TS]

01:24:07   this like in terms of the game engine [TS]

01:24:08   trying to get its work done at just the [TS]

01:24:11   right time to give the rest of the [TS]

01:24:12   system time to render out that frame you [TS]

01:24:14   don't want big gaps and so this is also [TS]

01:24:16   inviting the ARV are things where they [TS]

01:24:18   put up a big like sort of a like a Gantt [TS]

01:24:21   chart and Microsoft Project of like all [TS]

01:24:22   the different things that are happening [TS]

01:24:23   in a system and you don't want to have [TS]

01:24:25   big gaps that you want everything to [TS]

01:24:26   finish just in time to get the optimal [TS]

01:24:28   frame rate out [TS]

01:24:29   but for the optimal experience and same [TS]

01:24:31   thing with those uh was the Nvidia I [TS]

01:24:33   think g-sync thing where they try to [TS]

01:24:35   synchronize the the refresh of the [TS]

01:24:36   monitor with the game engine again to [TS]

01:24:38   reduce those gaps so you get a smoother [TS]

01:24:40   tear free you know drawing at variable [TS]

01:24:44   frame rates instead of having like a 60 [TS]

01:24:46   Hertz uh vertical blanking interval [TS]

01:24:47   holdover from the CRT days doing away [TS]

01:24:50   with that and trying to get the engine [TS]

01:24:51   in the screen all in the same page [TS]

01:24:52   having more samples also makes it more [TS]

01:24:55   likely that you will be able to get a [TS]

01:24:58   recent recent input close to the optimal [TS]

01:25:01   window for handing off to the system to [TS]

01:25:03   render and display and speaking of those [TS]

01:25:07   sorts of things Joe LeBlanc writes in [TS]

01:25:09   and saying people are preferring 120 [TS]

01:25:12   Hertz huh displays in blind tests and [TS]

01:25:14   this appears to be gamer related in fact [TS]

01:25:17   the the actual title vast majority of [TS]

01:25:19   gamers prefer 120 Hertz monitors but uh [TS]

01:25:22   people like them although I did use that [TS]

01:25:24   it's somewhere I feel like I heard some [TS]

01:25:27   people saying that it kind of made them [TS]

01:25:28   a little queasy which is interesting I [TS]

01:25:30   hypothetically may have seen one of [TS]

01:25:32   these iPads very briefly and I liked it [TS]

01:25:34   but I haven't used it for a long time [TS]

01:25:36   mark oh you received yours today [TS]

01:25:38   yesterday yesterday okay and what do you [TS]

01:25:41   think it is ridiculously good it is so [TS]

01:25:46   good not only is a faster than John's [TS]

01:25:48   Mac Pro but it is it is just so good in [TS]

01:25:54   so many ways so you know I'm not a heavy [TS]

01:25:58   iPad user I use my iPad lightly but [TS]

01:26:01   frequently like I sold my old one on [TS]

01:26:04   Twitter about 24 hours before my new one [TS]

01:26:07   was going to arrive so I went like 24 [TS]

01:26:09   hours without having an iPad and I [TS]

01:26:10   actually really missed it and I never [TS]

01:26:12   thought like two years ago I would never [TS]

01:26:14   I never would have guessed that I would [TS]

01:26:15   be in that state what really changed the [TS]

01:26:18   iPad for me what what what you know and [TS]

01:26:20   for everyone this is a different thing [TS]

01:26:22   with what really made me get the iPad [TS]

01:26:24   finally after years was the combination [TS]

01:26:27   of having really great speakers and the [TS]

01:26:30   smart Keyboard and basically leaving the [TS]

01:26:33   smart Keyboard permanently attached [TS]

01:26:34   combined with really great speaker so [TS]

01:26:36   that it basically became my kitchen [TS]

01:26:38   computer because it plays podcasts I can [TS]

01:26:41   look stuff up if I have [TS]

01:26:42   clicking off a recipe online I can look [TS]

01:26:44   I can hold the recipe there I can browse [TS]

01:26:46   the web lime waiting for coffee to roast [TS]

01:26:48   and like it's just having it always in [TS]

01:26:51   the keyboard made that difference for me [TS]

01:26:53   and having the great speakers made it by [TS]

01:26:56   far the best podcast player that you can [TS]

01:26:59   have in a kitchen because you know [TS]

01:27:01   overcast you know the experience of [TS]

01:27:03   using overcast through something like [TS]

01:27:04   Sonos or Alexa is not great and and [TS]

01:27:07   using the app is always going to be [TS]

01:27:09   better than that by a mile and the [TS]

01:27:10   speakers are really good and the [TS]

01:27:12   keyboard puts it up in a nice position [TS]

01:27:13   for like standing up at counter use so [TS]

01:27:17   it's just great I very much enjoy the [TS]

01:27:20   iPad for that and then like you know if [TS]

01:27:21   we're like watching some you know low [TS]

01:27:24   mental effort TV at night I will bring [TS]

01:27:27   the iPad over to the couch and it'll be [TS]

01:27:29   my couch computer like what everyone [TS]

01:27:30   else in the world has done for years so [TS]

01:27:32   this is basically the me discovering [TS]

01:27:34   what everyone else discovered with the [TS]

01:27:35   iPad a long time ago so anyway I now [TS]

01:27:37   like the iPad even though I'm not using [TS]

01:27:39   it to get much work done [TS]

01:27:40   I enjoy it as a you know basic [TS]

01:27:45   entertainment device and a light work [TS]

01:27:47   device anyway so the new hardware is [TS]

01:27:52   ridiculously awesome you know in general [TS]

01:27:54   away in general it you're not waiting [TS]

01:28:01   for anything and I use I'm using the iOS [TS]

01:28:03   11 beta first thing I do is all the beta [TS]

01:28:05   because I was using it on my other one [TS]

01:28:07   because this is clearly you know [TS]

01:28:09   something that that that I want to be [TS]

01:28:11   and I want to get used to it I want to [TS]

01:28:12   learn it and the iOS 11 beta is buggy [TS]

01:28:16   and slow and slaughters the battery [TS]

01:28:18   nobody should be using the iOS 11 beta I [TS]

01:28:21   am using it but nobody should it is it [TS]

01:28:25   is a terrible idea to put this beta on [TS]

01:28:27   any device that you rely on or care [TS]

01:28:29   about at all [TS]

01:28:30   it also apparently has been breaking [TS]

01:28:31   some people's devices so again I really [TS]

01:28:33   don't recommend that anybody install the [TS]

01:28:35   beta but I did and so I can't really [TS]

01:28:39   judge things like battery life and even [TS]

01:28:41   performance like the beta is really slow [TS]

01:28:43   and it was really slow on my old iPad [TS]

01:28:45   but on the new one it's like [TS]

01:28:47   substantially those will be faster [TS]

01:28:49   because the hardware so much better if [TS]

01:28:51   you do anything heavy on the iPad any if [TS]

01:28:55   you if you were just a heavy iPad [TS]

01:28:56   user I strongly suggest you check it out [TS]

01:28:59   and this I should clarify also this is [TS]

01:29:00   the 10.5 I do not get 12.9 because for [TS]

01:29:04   my aforementioned use of basically like [TS]

01:29:06   casual plus light work I think even the [TS]

01:29:10   12.9 fans would agree the d 10.5 is the [TS]

01:29:12   size to get for that the twelve point [TS]

01:29:14   nine is the size to get if you are a [TS]

01:29:15   heavy iPad productivity user and you [TS]

01:29:17   want to full screen app side by side on [TS]

01:29:21   a regular basis and you don't really [TS]

01:29:22   need to carry it around a whole lot then [TS]

01:29:25   the twelve point on is for you but [TS]

01:29:26   that's not going to be most people most [TS]

01:29:28   people detent the ten point five is the [TS]

01:29:29   size to get and this is all everything [TS]

01:29:31   I've just said is not even mentioning [TS]

01:29:33   the 120 Hertz display but let me tell [TS]

01:29:37   you when you see the 120 Hertz display [TS]

01:29:40   it ruins everything else for you forever [TS]

01:29:43   it is as big to a lot of people I think [TS]

01:29:49   or will be as big 12 people as the [TS]

01:29:51   retina transition was you know I'm glad [TS]

01:29:53   you qualified that because had I [TS]

01:29:55   hypothetically spent a little time with [TS]

01:29:58   one of these last week I came into it [TS]

01:30:00   the for my first impression was me [TS]

01:30:02   then I saw it being used for a while and [TS]

01:30:05   hypothetically I saw it being used for a [TS]

01:30:07   while I was like actually this is pretty [TS]

01:30:09   impressive and where I left it not [TS]

01:30:11   having used one even hypothetically for [TS]

01:30:14   more than a few minutes was this is [TS]

01:30:16   important and it's a bigger deal than I [TS]

01:30:18   initially thought [TS]

01:30:19   but I a lot of people have been saying [TS]

01:30:21   it's as big as retina perhaps I'll feel [TS]

01:30:23   that way later but sitting here now [TS]

01:30:26   after only brief usage it is certainly [TS]

01:30:28   the most impressive thing that I've seen [TS]

01:30:31   in a long time a la retina but I didn't [TS]

01:30:35   think it was as big as retina but we'll [TS]

01:30:37   see what I feel like in whatever I get [TS]

01:30:39   my hands on one of these eventually one [TS]

01:30:41   day or if the phone for example has them [TS]

01:30:43   you know something like that [TS]

01:30:43   it isn't as big as retina in in like the [TS]

01:30:47   sense of like looking at it if you just [TS]

01:30:49   look at a screen shot you know you don't [TS]

01:30:51   see it it is basically the motion [TS]

01:30:53   version of retina it's like that's [TS]

01:30:55   interesting what I'm looking at it yeah [TS]

01:30:57   any kind of motion any animation any [TS]

01:30:59   touch input scrolling especially [TS]

01:31:01   scrolling text like a lot like if you're [TS]

01:31:02   reading a web page you notice that like [TS]

01:31:04   because when you're scrolling the text [TS]

01:31:06   blur is less so if you're reading while [TS]

01:31:08   scrolling like it's it's a noticeable [TS]

01:31:10   difference even just like moving page to [TS]

01:31:12   page in springboard just like like [TS]

01:31:14   that's the first thing I did when I got [TS]

01:31:15   it before right right before I sold the [TS]

01:31:16   beta was I just like swipe back and [TS]

01:31:19   forth on springboard like between my two [TS]

01:31:21   pigs of actions like whoa it's so smooth [TS]

01:31:23   it really is it is a way bigger gain [TS]

01:31:30   than I thought it would be you know III [TS]

01:31:32   didn't think it would be that noticeable [TS]

01:31:34   but it really is that noticeable and [TS]

01:31:37   yeah I mean if I had to pick either only [TS]

01:31:40   having retina or only having 120 Hertz I [TS]

01:31:43   pick retina every time but we already [TS]

01:31:46   have right now yeah right retinas a done [TS]

01:31:47   deal now like it well tell it to the [TS]

01:31:49   MacBook Air but for the most part [TS]

01:31:51   because a done deal now and so now we [TS]

01:31:54   now that we've all established that [TS]

01:31:56   we've had that we can move on from that [TS]

01:31:57   now Wow [TS]

01:31:59   120 Hertz is that that level of [TS]

01:32:03   advancement and it won't be as high for [TS]

01:32:05   some people for me though I really think [TS]

01:32:08   it is on that magnitude I think we [TS]

01:32:12   comparison to retina is extremely apt [TS]

01:32:14   because just like retina I guarantee you [TS]

01:32:17   there are people who you will put this [TS]

01:32:20   thing in front of who have no idea that [TS]

01:32:23   is 120 Hertz will not be able to [TS]

01:32:25   distinguish between the two and will not [TS]

01:32:27   care about it like sure I've shown a lot [TS]

01:32:29   of people Retina screens I like don't [TS]

01:32:31   you see how different these screens are [TS]

01:32:33   these pixels are the size of boulders [TS]

01:32:34   and you can't even see them here they'd [TS]

01:32:35   be like huh like the thing again in the [TS]

01:32:38   TV parlance saying that they are much [TS]

01:32:40   more likely no to say that screens [TS]

01:32:42   brighter they they don't like some [TS]

01:32:44   people just don't care about retina they [TS]

01:32:46   don't see it you pointed out to him look [TS]

01:32:47   at the text look at the serif see how [TS]

01:32:48   they like oh yeah I don't care now it [TS]

01:32:51   could be of those same people who don't [TS]

01:32:52   care get used to it and can't go back to [TS]

01:32:55   the other thing but it could be that [TS]

01:32:56   they're just always like well that's not [TS]

01:32:58   not important to me or my vision is not [TS]

01:33:00   acute enough for me to be able to know [TS]

01:33:01   such differences 120 Hertz is just like [TS]

01:33:03   that some people will be like but how [TS]

01:33:06   can you not it's just like what Marco [TS]

01:33:07   said before about drawing with the [TS]

01:33:09   pencil when you scroll really fast if [TS]

01:33:11   you've only got 60 frames per second it [TS]

01:33:13   could be that the line that was [TS]

01:33:14   previously in the middle of the screen [TS]

01:33:16   in the next frame is at the top of the [TS]

01:33:18   screen so your device shows two frames [TS]

01:33:20   line in the middle and line at the top [TS]

01:33:22   and you get to see nope [TS]

01:33:23   in between despite the fact that if you [TS]

01:33:26   were taking a piece of paper and moving [TS]

01:33:28   it by that same speed you would see more [TS]

01:33:29   positions in between right and so 120 [TS]

01:33:32   Hertz gives you more frames in between [TS]

01:33:34   makes it appear smoother and I'll bet [TS]

01:33:37   they're people you show that to you know [TS]

01:33:38   look at the slow motion look looks the [TS]

01:33:40   Contra celerity be like oh alright I [TS]

01:33:42   guess that's nice oh but so I think a [TS]

01:33:45   retina is perfectly app it's a thing [TS]

01:33:46   that's going to mean so much to certain [TS]

01:33:48   geeks and other people will absolutely [TS]

01:33:49   take for granted and I think that [TS]

01:33:52   everyone will just become accustomed to [TS]

01:33:53   so that if you fast forward many years [TS]

01:33:55   like say we get the screen up to 240 and [TS]

01:33:58   you pull out it's too bad we never had a [TS]

01:34:00   30 frames per second because iOS is [TS]

01:34:01   always aiming for 60 wasn't it 60 from [TS]

01:34:03   the beginning and earlier that's right [TS]

01:34:04   like if we had 30 and compared that to a [TS]

01:34:08   240 people like oh how did you ever use [TS]

01:34:10   this 13 for a second thing it's so [TS]

01:34:12   terrible I think it's back to this this [TS]

01:34:14   gamer story here I mentioned in the last [TS]

01:34:16   show like gamers always obsessing about [TS]

01:34:18   framerate and the question was like what [TS]

01:34:20   is the point of diminishing returns like [TS]

01:34:22   should you get a system that can play [TS]

01:34:23   this game you know at 500 frames per [TS]

01:34:27   second or once you pass 60 or so like [TS]

01:34:31   does it not matter anymore and that's [TS]

01:34:32   what gamers are is obsessed with and [TS]

01:34:33   this this test of under 20 Hertz [TS]

01:34:35   monitors I was trying to figure out like [TS]

01:34:38   asking these gamers who are presumably [TS]

01:34:39   very sensitive to frame rates and their [TS]

01:34:41   first-person shooters and everything one [TS]

01:34:42   of the questions was can you even tell [TS]

01:34:44   like they put them in front of a screen [TS]

01:34:45   I'm not going to tell you if this is one [TS]

01:34:46   of the 2,100 Hertz one of the 60 Hertz [TS]

01:34:48   one can you even tell if the screen [TS]

01:34:51   you're in front of is 120 or 60 and most [TS]

01:34:53   of them could not all of them though but [TS]

01:34:55   most of them is like 88% could say oh [TS]

01:34:57   yeah I've correctly identified the [TS]

01:34:58   screen that I'm using this is a 120 and [TS]

01:35:00   this is a 60 so the fact that there even [TS]

01:35:01   some gamers who couldn't tell shows and [TS]

01:35:04   by the way this was a game obviously [TS]

01:35:05   this that with a frame rate that exceeds [TS]

01:35:06   60 so they would you know it would look [TS]

01:35:08   different Thanks sometimes it's not even [TS]

01:35:10   that easy to tell any other question for [TS]

01:35:11   the gamers perspective is like did I do [TS]

01:35:13   better on the screen with the higher [TS]

01:35:15   framerate and the methodology this [TS]

01:35:17   article is not conclusive because there [TS]

01:35:19   can you know have a few people playing [TS]

01:35:21   something whatever that's what they want [TS]

01:35:22   to know is like does this make me a [TS]

01:35:23   better player or not and that probably [TS]

01:35:25   all comes down with what it's used to [TS]

01:35:26   but for things like drawing with the [TS]

01:35:28   pencil it's pretty clear that you know [TS]

01:35:30   if you're drawing with something in the [TS]

01:35:32   line you're tracing lags behind your [TS]

01:35:34   cursor by twice as much on one device [TS]

01:35:36   another you're going to like the other [TS]

01:35:37   one better but the fact that most people [TS]

01:35:41   can tell shows that maybe the point of [TS]

01:35:44   diminishing returns first-person [TS]

01:35:45   shooters maybe hovering somewhere past [TS]

01:35:47   60 or whatever but that people can can [TS]

01:35:51   see the difference especially with very [TS]

01:35:53   fast motions pretty easily if you're [TS]

01:35:56   looking for if you know what to look for [TS]

01:35:57   you have the two devices there and you [TS]

01:35:58   move your finger arm you can totally see [TS]

01:36:00   the difference which makes you think [TS]

01:36:01   that you know where where is the limit [TS]

01:36:03   on this for seeing the difference in [TS]

01:36:06   terms of human visual acuity is would [TS]

01:36:09   240 would we be able to tell adrims [TS]

01:36:11   between 240 and 120 and look at it and [TS]

01:36:13   go oh wow I can really see that 120 [TS]

01:36:15   looks like it's all stuttery and this [TS]

01:36:16   one is smooth as butter right or is [TS]

01:36:19   there a point after which you know we [TS]

01:36:21   can't tell anymore and you'd put the two [TS]

01:36:22   devices side-by-side and you scroll them [TS]

01:36:24   as much as you want any but I can't tell [TS]

01:36:26   is this one 5000 every second in this [TS]

01:36:28   one is 2,000 I can't tell anymore so we [TS]

01:36:30   may be approaching that I'm not sure [TS]

01:36:32   someone should write in about the human [TS]

01:36:34   visual system and tell us at what point [TS]

01:36:35   will be side by side scrolling test stop [TS]

01:36:37   working on humans and that's where Apple [TS]

01:36:39   can stop their work but in the meantime [TS]

01:36:41   they they should keep going yeah I mean [TS]

01:36:43   I would even go further to say like this [TS]

01:36:45   is so impressive that first of all I [TS]

01:36:48   think the reason why maybe some people [TS]

01:36:51   this makes them feel weird and there [TS]

01:36:53   actually is an accessibility option to [TS]

01:36:55   to restrict to cap the framerate at 60 [TS]

01:36:57   Hertz which is probably for this reason [TS]

01:36:59   in addition to looking really cool it's [TS]

01:37:02   jarring how different looks the first [TS]

01:37:04   time you see it and the first time you [TS]

01:37:06   you you touch it and move and you see an [TS]

01:37:08   animation it actually is like jarring [TS]

01:37:12   and it's kind of like the first time you [TS]

01:37:14   see a like high frame rate movie and it [TS]

01:37:17   like the soap opera effect on TVs the [TS]

01:37:19   charm of so much like it's kind of like [TS]

01:37:22   that but but like you know the the [TS]

01:37:24   computer interaction version that we're [TS]

01:37:25   like you're looking at you're like oh [TS]

01:37:26   that's this is like surreal in some way [TS]

01:37:30   it's it's a very jarring thing to see [TS]

01:37:32   but I would so I will go as far as to [TS]

01:37:34   say I like it so much it makes such a [TS]

01:37:36   big difference that between the iMac pro [TS]

01:37:40   and the Mac Pro if one of them somehow [TS]

01:37:44   supports this on its display but the [TS]

01:37:46   other one doesn't this might be enough [TS]

01:37:48   to evince me too [TS]

01:37:50   to make a decision one way or the other [TS]

01:37:51   on that like in the same way that when [TS]

01:37:53   the 5k iMac came out I gave up my [TS]

01:37:57   cylinder Mac Pro because I wanted [TS]

01:37:58   desktop Retina so badly and that was the [TS]

01:38:00   only way to get it at that time at that [TS]

01:38:02   size this this is that big of a deal to [TS]

01:38:05   me now that I've seen it now that I [TS]

01:38:07   played with it like now if the iMac pro [TS]

01:38:10   se say the iMac Pro can do it like maybe [TS]

01:38:14   the built-in screen can use the [TS]

01:38:16   advantages of an internal bus and [TS]

01:38:18   everything say the CDI Mac Pro can do [TS]

01:38:20   120 Hertz but the Mac Pro over some [TS]

01:38:23   cables some separate display can't I'll [TS]

01:38:26   get the mi Pro for that reason alone [TS]

01:38:27   that's how good that's how good this is [TS]

01:38:30   I might consider that as well although [TS]

01:38:32   the the Mac Pro is further hindered by [TS]

01:38:35   the potential rumors of 8k because [TS]

01:38:37   member we were just talking about boy [TS]

01:38:38   when will we be able to do 5k at 60 [TS]

01:38:40   frames per second over a cable it's like [TS]

01:38:42   surprise 8 km 120 hearts where's your [TS]

01:38:44   God now yeah like that's a lot of damn [TS]

01:38:47   pixels coming over it's a there's almost [TS]

01:38:49   no hope and that's why Marcos is right [TS]

01:38:51   to like if you're gonna pin your hopes [TS]

01:38:52   on anything pinch on the thing where [TS]

01:38:54   they have everything of the box they can [TS]

01:38:55   hide the two ugly cables and the timing [TS]

01:38:57   chip and all that other stuff like they [TS]

01:38:59   could conceivably pull it off but even [TS]

01:39:00   then like the GPU starts to weep at a [TS]

01:39:03   certain point like start doing the math [TS]

01:39:05   that is a lot of pixels per second yeah [TS]

01:39:09   it's it is a difficult challenge and [TS]

01:39:11   honestly I would imagine that it is more [TS]

01:39:14   perceptible on a device that you're [TS]

01:39:16   constantly touching and swiping maybe if [TS]

01:39:18   you have a you know the Apple touch [TS]

01:39:20   Mouse and you're swiping for scrolling [TS]

01:39:21   it would start to show up but I do [TS]

01:39:23   boy that's that's that I know that's [TS]

01:39:25   that's a difficult I have to Apple touch [TS]

01:39:28   pointing devices one on each out of my [TS]

01:39:29   keyboard yeah I mean and you're not [TS]

01:39:31   drawing on your Mac screen with a pencil [TS]

01:39:32   I suppose no you can use your iPad as a [TS]

01:39:37   120 Hertz display that you can draw on [TS]

01:39:40   when you connect to your Mac with that [TS]

01:39:41   didn't get announced the WZ by the way [TS]

01:39:43   but it's still out there if that feature [TS]

01:39:45   ever shapes yeah yeah but it no I mean [TS]

01:39:48   like you know one thing you doing on [TS]

01:39:50   desktop a lot is scroll you know like [TS]

01:39:52   you're scrolling webpages all the time [TS]

01:39:55   on desktop so like you just page down [TS]

01:39:57   and page up and have it set to jump [TS]

01:39:58   smooth scrolling is for suckers instance [TS]

01:40:00   growing so old [TS]

01:40:02   I think they remove that feature I had [TS]

01:40:05   that the secret prep set for a long time [TS]

01:40:06   I think it's gone now though like I [TS]

01:40:07   think you have no choice you get smooth [TS]

01:40:09   swirling whether you like it or not yeah [TS]

01:40:10   I think when they went when they went [TS]

01:40:11   fully GPU rendered I think that happened [TS]

01:40:13   so now I'll use another reason to use [TS]

01:40:15   Chrome right guys oh god thanks for our [TS]

01:40:20   three sponsors this week betterment endo [TS]

01:40:22   Chino and mail route and we'll see you [TS]

01:40:24   next week [TS]

01:40:27   now the show is over [TS]

01:40:29   they didn't even mean to begin cuz it [TS]

01:40:33   was accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

01:40:38   didn't do any research Marco and Casey [TS]

01:40:41   wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental [TS]

01:40:45   it was accidental and you can find the [TS]

01:40:50   show notes at a TPM and if you're into [TS]

01:40:55   Twitter you can follow them at CAS pyl [TS]

01:41:01   ISS so that's Casey list ma accion krm [TS]

01:41:07   aunty Marco Arment li r AC USA Syracuse [TS]

01:41:24   so [TS]

01:41:27   we need to discuss a few things and the [TS]

01:41:32   last of the three things we need to [TS]

01:41:33   discuss the other two should be quick is [TS]

01:41:35   the food at WWE this is your teaser [TS]

01:41:38   everyone that it is coming it is coming [TS]

01:41:40   this episode um so I can't wait because [TS]

01:41:42   I haven't had it yet because I wasn't I [TS]

01:41:43   didn't have a ticket I can't wait to [TS]

01:41:45   hear about it mm-hmm before though we [TS]

01:41:47   need to talk about a couple of different [TS]

01:41:49   things number one I stole something from [TS]

01:41:52   dub dub I'm in bidding it publicly [TS]

01:41:55   except not really is it everybody's [TS]

01:41:58   heart Casey no it is not everybody's [TS]

01:42:00   heart that is very kind of you to even [TS]

01:42:02   make that joke now I actually didn't [TS]

01:42:04   really steal anything this is probably [TS]

01:42:06   not interesting to anyone but me but I [TS]

01:42:08   thought it was funny and a nice story [TS]

01:42:09   about how Apple nerds are actually nice [TS]

01:42:11   people so I forget what day it was I [TS]

01:42:14   want to say it was Wednesday it doesn't [TS]

01:42:16   really matter but one of the days toward [TS]

01:42:17   the end of the week I went i sat down [TS]

01:42:20   with my old and busted 2015 circa 2015 [TS]

01:42:24   MacBook Pro before touch bar you know [TS]

01:42:27   before anything fancy and cool and I had [TS]

01:42:31   wanted to use Ethernet and so as as with [TS]

01:42:33   prior years I plugged in my Thunderbolt [TS]

01:42:37   Ethernet connector plugged in one of the [TS]

01:42:39   Ethernet ports in let me back up a [TS]

01:42:41   half-step so basically they have areas [TS]

01:42:43   in in the conference center where [TS]

01:42:45   they'll have Ethernet ports they'll have [TS]

01:42:48   power strips and and in years past they [TS]

01:42:51   used to actually provide Thunderbolt 2 [TS]

01:42:52   Ethernet connections that that that you [TS]

01:42:55   could use you don't have to bring your [TS]

01:42:57   own but because the new hotness is USBC [TS]

01:42:59   that's what they had this year instead [TS]

01:43:00   so but they had just plain old ethernet [TS]

01:43:04   cables that you could plug into a [TS]

01:43:06   connector that you provide which is what [TS]

01:43:08   I did so I sit down i plug in my you [TS]

01:43:11   know ethernet adapter I download a bunch [TS]

01:43:13   of videos I leave and I completely [TS]

01:43:16   forget my Ethernet adapter crap I go [TS]

01:43:20   back almost exactly 24 hours later you [TS]

01:43:23   know it was still there my Ethernet [TS]

01:43:26   adapter I was overjoyed because that's [TS]

01:43:28   like a $30.00 damn adapter and no nerds [TS]

01:43:32   so none of these nerds was a big enough [TS]

01:43:34   jerk or noticed to take it I was so [TS]

01:43:36   excited but then that then you have [TS]

01:43:39   that awkward social moment where there's [TS]

01:43:41   a bunch of people around you and you sit [TS]

01:43:44   down and you plug in and then you take [TS]

01:43:47   the adapter and walk off and I can only [TS]

01:43:49   imagine what the people around me [TS]

01:43:51   thought just hand on heart it was the [TS]

01:43:53   exact same spot I was the day before I [TS]

01:43:55   am 99% sure it was the same adapter but [TS]

01:43:58   here it is I like sit down without an [TS]

01:44:00   adapter and walk away with an adapter [TS]

01:44:02   and I'm sure the people around me were [TS]

01:44:04   like what just happened but uh but [TS]

01:44:09   anyway so yeah so when I say I stole [TS]

01:44:11   something from dub dub really I stole [TS]

01:44:12   something that I had left at dub dub [TS]

01:44:13   also tangential don't I don't know if [TS]

01:44:15   you've ever talked about this on the [TS]

01:44:17   show and you two obviously know the [TS]

01:44:19   answer but for the listeners if you have [TS]

01:44:22   one of these Ethernet to whatever [TS]

01:44:25   adapters so maybe Ethernet to USB C [TS]

01:44:27   Ethernet to Thunderbolt how do you [TS]

01:44:30   ensure that the ones that Casey doesn't [TS]

01:44:32   leave behind [TS]

01:44:33   don't walk away what do you do because [TS]

01:44:35   Apple came up with a completely genius [TS]

01:44:39   solution to this problem [TS]

01:44:41   so obviously you - no but the answer is [TS]

01:44:45   take a what do you call that tie the zip [TS]

01:44:48   ties tie [TS]

01:44:49   thank you a zip tie take a zip tie and [TS]

01:44:52   if you imagine an Ethernet cable the way [TS]

01:44:55   they generally work is they have like [TS]

01:44:57   the part with all the eight or whatever [TS]

01:44:59   it is wires in it and then like a little [TS]

01:45:00   tabby that pops up and in order to pull [TS]

01:45:04   the ethernet cord out of the device it's [TS]

01:45:06   plugged into you have to push the tabby [TS]

01:45:08   down so what they do is they take the [TS]

01:45:10   zip tie and tie it super tight around [TS]

01:45:12   the Ethernet cable under the tabby thing [TS]

01:45:15   so the only way to get this out is to [TS]

01:45:18   push down on the tabby thing but you [TS]

01:45:19   can't because the zip tie is there how [TS]

01:45:21   frickin clever is that it's been the [TS]

01:45:23   same way for years but I don't think [TS]

01:45:24   we've ever had a in impetus to talk [TS]

01:45:25   about it super clever such a low-tech [TS]

01:45:28   but great solution to the problem which [TS]

01:45:30   I thought was really funny so yep that [TS]

01:45:33   was me stealing something from dub dub [TS]

01:45:34   exception tell them you're using the [TS]

01:45:36   Apple app that makes it look like you're [TS]

01:45:37   stealing but you totally paid using easy [TS]

01:45:40   just wait for a few seconds and then [TS]

01:45:42   make it yeah just walk away surely no [TS]

01:45:44   one thought that works with everything [TS]

01:45:46   an apple [TS]

01:45:47   the phone doesn't even need to be on [TS]

01:45:49   doesn't even need to have a battery or [TS]

01:45:51   work when it doesn't walk out with him [TS]

01:45:52   oh my god please don't do that [TS]

01:45:54   oh don't do that okay so uh we should [TS]

01:45:57   also talk about what Marco did for the [TS]

01:45:59   entire week and uh as far as I can tell [TS]

01:46:02   from every time I saw you you just drank [TS]

01:46:05   coffee and sat outside that's basically [TS]

01:46:08   it it was glorious it was funny so uh so [TS]

01:46:13   at at San Jose there was a coffee shop [TS]

01:46:16   called [TS]

01:46:17   social policy which was either genuinely [TS]

01:46:20   or ironically called Sopo I don't know [TS]

01:46:22   if that was that was intentional or not [TS]

01:46:24   I mean their sign said SOPA on it so I [TS]

01:46:26   guess it's embraced but anyways it was a [TS]

01:46:29   from what I could tell a nice coffee [TS]

01:46:30   shop like actually I guess I should say [TS]

01:46:32   more of like a cafe because they had a [TS]

01:46:33   little bit of food and you talked about [TS]

01:46:35   this on was it run loop is that right [TS]

01:46:37   which show were you on the yeah run loop [TS]

01:46:39   and also under the radar but I don't [TS]

01:46:40   think it's out yet but yeah so well I'll [TS]

01:46:42   put a link to in the show notes to run [TS]

01:46:44   loop but um but yeah so Marco basically [TS]

01:46:46   each morning and you know jump in when [TS]

01:46:48   you're ready but I'm just telling you my [TS]

01:46:49   observation it would roll out of bed [TS]

01:46:52   when it suited him and then shuffle on [TS]

01:46:55   down to the social policy which was like [TS]

01:46:56   across the street from the Fairmont [TS]

01:46:57   Hotel across the street from the [TS]

01:46:59   4-points hotel very very close to the [TS]

01:47:02   conference center so you would roll into [TS]

01:47:04   social policy and because California [TS]

01:47:05   doesn't have weather you could sit [TS]

01:47:06   outside and it seemed like no matter [TS]

01:47:09   when I passed by social policy you were [TS]

01:47:13   there to your credit often with [TS]

01:47:15   different people but you were a fixture [TS]

01:47:17   the entire week so it was really you [TS]

01:47:20   just holding court in social policy if [TS]

01:47:23   anyone wanted a conference with the king [TS]

01:47:25   they just had to show up at social [TS]

01:47:26   policy and that's where he would be [TS]

01:47:27   that's basically true and there was even [TS]

01:47:29   there was one day where I went there for [TS]

01:47:31   breakfast I tried to leave and then ran [TS]

01:47:36   to a bunch of our friends who were [TS]

01:47:37   heading there and went right back there [TS]

01:47:41   with them then I had a lunch meeting [TS]

01:47:42   there like 40 minutes later so I just [TS]

01:47:45   stayed I hung out with our friends and [TS]

01:47:47   then change tables for the lunch meeting [TS]

01:47:49   they then then had the lunch meeting [TS]

01:47:52   then after that like there was some [TS]

01:47:53   other reason why I had to be there like [TS]

01:47:55   it was basically spent a whole day there [TS]

01:47:57   but it was ya know it's a great place I [TS]

01:47:59   mean this is one of the things in [TS]

01:48:00   general [TS]

01:48:01   you know that I like about having it in [TS]

01:48:03   San Jose that that we have never had [TS]

01:48:05   really in San Francisco is that there [TS]

01:48:10   there are these clear like common places [TS]

01:48:13   because it's it's a much smaller area [TS]

01:48:16   that most people are really walking [TS]

01:48:18   between like the hotels that most people [TS]

01:48:20   are staying in we're very very close to [TS]

01:48:23   the conference center right there and [TS]

01:48:24   there were more affordable hotels close [TS]

01:48:26   to his conference center than there are [TS]

01:48:27   on San Francisco and so everyone was in [TS]

01:48:31   not everybody like more people were in a [TS]

01:48:34   smaller area they were it seems like San [TS]

01:48:37   Jose is a much quieter town most of the [TS]

01:48:39   time we know outside of conferences at [TS]

01:48:41   least in this part of the town is so [TS]

01:48:43   like they were there was there were very [TS]

01:48:45   few other people walking around who [TS]

01:48:48   weren't conference attendees or adjacent [TS]

01:48:50   people like me and so it was it was a [TS]

01:48:54   really really good hangout area in [TS]

01:48:57   general there were a handful of coffee [TS]

01:48:59   shops a handful of bars handful of [TS]

01:49:02   restaurants that are all right around [TS]

01:49:03   there and you could just hang out at one [TS]

01:49:06   of them and you would see tons of people [TS]

01:49:09   that were conference attendees and if [TS]

01:49:12   you know if you know a lot of people [TS]

01:49:13   there like like we do you'd see a lot of [TS]

01:49:15   your friends and so it was a really [TS]

01:49:17   really great scenario and Sara never had [TS]

01:49:19   that they were there was no place in San [TS]

01:49:21   Francisco that you could sit and just [TS]

01:49:24   run into people that easily and that [TS]

01:49:26   quickly that was that nice and and that [TS]

01:49:29   you would that you would learn as people [TS]

01:49:31   that often it was it was great for that [TS]

01:49:34   summarize Marcos review San Jose a great [TS]

01:49:38   place not to attend WWDC honestly yes [TS]

01:49:41   yes it it like I I don't know I don't [TS]

01:49:43   know what to expect going into it this [TS]

01:49:44   is my first time going without a ticket [TS]

01:49:46   but Wow was it great and and and I [TS]

01:49:50   should you know and to to clarify here I [TS]

01:49:53   talked a little bit this on the radar [TS]

01:49:54   which should come out about the same [TS]

01:49:56   time as this to clarify one of the [TS]

01:50:00   reasons I was able to do that is because [TS]

01:50:02   I've been going for so many years with a [TS]

01:50:04   ticket that I know a lot of people now [TS]

01:50:06   so when you know a lot of people's is [TS]

01:50:08   this is like that's why I'm for [TS]

01:50:09   marketing like when you know a lot of [TS]

01:50:10   people you can do that really easily [TS]

01:50:12   it's harder if you don't know it's like [TS]

01:50:14   if you don't know any [TS]

01:50:14   I would not recommend going out there [TS]

01:50:17   with no conferences to attend because I [TS]

01:50:20   think you need something to anchor your [TS]

01:50:22   day if you know most unless you know a [TS]

01:50:25   lot of people there you have a lot of [TS]

01:50:26   other things scheduled you need [TS]

01:50:28   something to anchor your days so go you [TS]

01:50:30   know get a ticket to a conference [TS]

01:50:31   whether it's WTC or layers or all conf [TS]

01:50:34   honestly it doesn't matter that much [TS]

01:50:36   which one you pick you know pick [TS]

01:50:38   whichever one appeals to you most and [TS]

01:50:39   that you that you can get into and [TS]

01:50:40   afford and everything else but if you [TS]

01:50:43   are going out there mostly for social [TS]

01:50:45   reasons and you already know some people [TS]

01:50:47   out there that you can hang out with and [TS]

01:50:48   stuff then going totally ticketless is [TS]

01:50:50   pretty cool and I can recommend it [TS]

01:50:53   because it's a very different experience [TS]

01:50:55   in San Jose than it ever was in San [TS]

01:50:57   Francisco I mean I can't count the [TS]

01:50:59   number of breakfasts I had in San [TS]

01:51:02   Francisco in that sad little bagel deli [TS]

01:51:04   next to the park 55 just like as I was [TS]

01:51:07   working out of the door like on the way [TS]

01:51:08   out to try to make the morning session [TS]

01:51:10   like I've had so many like sad [TS]

01:51:13   breakfasts alone just like rushing to [TS]

01:51:15   Moscone and that never happened in San [TS]

01:51:18   Jose like I would say for breakfast and [TS]

01:51:20   there would already be four people I [TS]

01:51:22   know at the coffee shop I would have [TS]

01:51:24   food and eight more people would show [TS]

01:51:26   like it but it was just it was awesome [TS]

01:51:28   it was a very very different experience [TS]

01:51:30   so I really did appreciate that yeah you [TS]

01:51:32   know I'm giving you a hard time but if [TS]

01:51:34   it were me I'd probably be in the exact [TS]

01:51:36   same boat and it was really nice to have [TS]

01:51:39   a place that we could all gather that [TS]

01:51:41   would appeal to everyone because I'm not [TS]

01:51:43   a coffee drinker but you know they had [TS]

01:51:45   other things to drink and they had food [TS]

01:51:47   to eat and it was right by the two most [TS]

01:51:49   popular hotels or at least amongst our [TS]

01:51:51   you know kind of social circle and and [TS]

01:51:53   yeah you would end up because often [TS]

01:51:56   times should be eating outside you know [TS]

01:51:58   you would be walking by maybe to go to [TS]

01:51:59   your hotel via KHOU there's Marco I'll [TS]

01:52:01   swing by and say hey and next you know [TS]

01:52:02   it's three hours later so I'm giving you [TS]

01:52:04   a hard time but but I I couldn't agree [TS]

01:52:07   more with pretty much everything you [TS]

01:52:08   just said pretty much the only thing I [TS]

01:52:10   regret about not having a ticket this [TS]

01:52:12   year is I didn't get one of those cool [TS]

01:52:14   jackets they are pretty cool and the pin [TS]

01:52:17   is mine so in the pins that's right now [TS]

01:52:19   for the first time in I would say four [TS]

01:52:22   years however long they've been doing [TS]

01:52:23   those weird nylon track jackets they [TS]

01:52:25   finally have great jackets like [TS]

01:52:28   and look on eBay like should I just buy [TS]

01:52:29   one Arnie Biggs I'm sure people are [TS]

01:52:31   dumping them and sure enough the answer [TS]

01:52:32   is yes people are dumping them but [TS]

01:52:34   they're going for like a hundred and [TS]

01:52:35   fifty dollars or more Wow okay I don't [TS]

01:52:38   want one that badly suddenly I don't [TS]

01:52:41   want mine if it's a large maybe let's [TS]

01:52:44   talk yeah right but no they were they [TS]

01:52:47   were nice jackets and yeah I don't think [TS]

01:52:49   we did we talked about this last episode [TS]

01:52:51   with the pins I don't recall [TS]

01:52:52   I don't think so the pin yeah that other [TS]

01:52:54   people have but we haven't okay so short [TS]

01:52:57   short version is when you walked in and [TS]

01:52:59   registered you would get a package of [TS]

01:53:01   six pins and a country pin so you know a [TS]

01:53:05   pin that shows like the US flag or maybe [TS]

01:53:07   like Federico got the Italian flag etc [TS]

01:53:09   and the six pins there they're differing [TS]

01:53:11   reports as to how many of them were [TS]

01:53:13   consistent how many were different it [TS]

01:53:15   doesn't really matter the point is that [TS]

01:53:16   not all six were the same amongst every [TS]

01:53:18   single attendee so what ended up [TS]

01:53:21   happening was you started like wheeling [TS]

01:53:23   and dealing just like Disney style [TS]

01:53:24   trying to find somebody who like what [TS]

01:53:27   was it John that you traded with [TS]

01:53:29   Federico you took a happy Mack and he [TS]

01:53:31   took a metal logo is that right I had to [TS]

01:53:34   sacrifice my metal pin which is one of [TS]

01:53:35   the ones I liked but I had to do what it [TS]

01:53:37   took to get a happy Mac see end up like [TS]

01:53:40   trading with people and then at certain [TS]

01:53:41   points throughout the week if you went [TS]

01:53:44   to certain things or did certain things [TS]

01:53:46   they would give you a pin so at some [TS]

01:53:50   point I was hanging out downstairs maybe [TS]

01:53:51   when I was leaving my dongle behind and [TS]

01:53:54   I got a San Jose pin when you walked [TS]

01:53:57   into the into the bash on Thursday [TS]

01:53:59   afternoon you got like a you know metal [TS]

01:54:02   not metal to the am but metal like you [TS]

01:54:05   know pinky and forefinger up with WDC on [TS]

01:54:08   it and I think if you went to one of the [TS]

01:54:10   labs you got like a space invader thing [TS]

01:54:11   if you went to another lab you got [TS]

01:54:13   something else if it was it was [TS]

01:54:15   something at Arak oh yeah [TS]

01:54:17   and so if you're if you're curious what [TS]

01:54:19   the pins are almost all of them if not [TS]

01:54:21   all of them are in the WWDC app on the [TS]

01:54:25   iphone and they're a sticker pack for [TS]

01:54:27   messages which I also thought was kind [TS]

01:54:29   of nets cute yeah so so [TS]

01:54:32   I'm being told via Sam the geek and it's [TS]

01:54:35   in the chat room that space invaders was [TS]

01:54:37   the game's meet up and there were some [TS]

01:54:40   other ones also elsewhere as well but [TS]

01:54:43   anyways the the point is you would like [TS]

01:54:44   kind of exchange these pins if you so [TS]

01:54:46   desired throughout the course the week [TS]

01:54:47   and you could kind of quote-unquote earn [TS]

01:54:50   more as you did different things [TS]

01:54:53   throughout the week when you got your [TS]

01:54:54   wristband to go into the bash you got [TS]

01:54:57   either command-z or one other kind of [TS]

01:55:00   pan africa the other one was but anyways [TS]

01:55:02   the it was I thought that was really [TS]

01:55:04   clever at first I was like come on [TS]

01:55:05   really but it ended up being really cute [TS]

01:55:07   and really fun and and I am fully on [TS]

01:55:10   board with them doing that again I put a [TS]

01:55:13   sunglasses emoji and a thumbs up emoji [TS]

01:55:15   on my laptop bag so I I'm a sunglasses [TS]

01:55:18   guy given a thumbs up jelly in the chad [TS]

01:55:21   jelly bean super said born to code was [TS]

01:55:23   the other one when you got your [TS]

01:55:24   wristband it to be honest it doesn't [TS]

01:55:26   really matter but the point is these [TS]

01:55:27   pins I thought really cool also if you [TS]

01:55:30   happen to be selling on eBay with like a [TS]

01:55:32   good set of pins they're going for over [TS]

01:55:34   three hundred dollars then my were like [TS]

01:55:36   I had no if you would have asked me [TS]

01:55:38   before I did the search to predict how [TS]

01:55:41   much they were going for I would guess [TS]

01:55:43   maybe like you know fifty bucks and no [TS]

01:55:45   they're coming for a lot you have all [TS]

01:55:47   this receive a lot of pins that's Apple [TS]

01:55:50   is late to the pin trading game I think [TS]

01:55:51   maybe Disney started it but met several [TS]

01:55:53   years ago the Penny Arcade Expo picked [TS]

01:55:55   up on it [TS]

01:55:56   xoxo would search going yeah go and [TS]

01:55:59   search for how much a complete pin [TS]

01:56:00   collection than any of those other [TS]

01:56:02   conferences or venues goes for Apple has [TS]

01:56:05   finally found another market where they [TS]

01:56:08   can make a small number a finely crafted [TS]

01:56:10   things sell for a huge amount of money [TS]

01:56:11   but they're not selling them it's but [TS]

01:56:14   that's why they're worth a huge amount [TS]

01:56:15   of money well secondary market is it's [TS]

01:56:17   like when people get their iPhones early [TS]

01:56:19   and then they sell them immediately on [TS]

01:56:20   eBay same thing only there will never be [TS]

01:56:23   any more of these pins if you didn't get [TS]

01:56:25   one it's too late and thanks again to [TS]

01:56:27   our friend Sam the geek in the chat we [TS]

01:56:28   have learned that if I want to buy the [TS]

01:56:30   same jacket without the WTC logo on it [TS]

01:56:32   it appears to be the Levi's it's called [TS]

01:56:35   the trucker jacket and it's 70 bucks no [TS]

01:56:40   puddling can show yeah so we actually [TS]

01:56:41   might it's a really it looks really nice [TS]

01:56:43   on everybody the only thing is I don't [TS]

01:56:45   really know what I'm a medium [TS]

01:56:46   large that's the only question so I'll [TS]

01:56:48   have to see okay the time has come we [TS]

01:56:52   need to talk about food and Marco I know [TS]

01:56:54   that there's going to be this isn't [TS]

01:56:57   going to be as exciting for you perhaps [TS]

01:56:58   we have to talk about the food this is a [TS]

01:57:00   so exciting for me you have no idea [TS]

01:57:03   let's start with the most important [TS]

01:57:05   thing there was Odwalla however there [TS]

01:57:11   was no Mango Tango and it it was just [TS]

01:57:14   basically the whole week was a long [TS]

01:57:16   troll of Casey Liz there were trams I [TS]

01:57:19   don't know what they're called it [TS]

01:57:20   doesn't really matter but there are [TS]

01:57:21   trams that ran actually right next to [TS]

01:57:23   social policy one of the tram or many of [TS]

01:57:26   the trams one of the designs on the tram [TS]

01:57:28   there was a like billboard that took up [TS]

01:57:31   the entire side of the tram was one of [TS]

01:57:33   the situations are they like painted a [TS]

01:57:36   advertisement on the side of the tram [TS]

01:57:38   one of them was not wala advertisement [TS]

01:57:41   and not only that but it was featuring [TS]

01:57:45   Mango Tango we get into the show and [TS]

01:57:48   actually I think people had seen some [TS]

01:57:50   odd wallet coolers which is what we had [TS]

01:57:51   seen in the past and they had sent me [TS]

01:57:54   pictures on Twitter and I'm all excited [TS]

01:57:55   with myself and I did not see one mango [TS]

01:57:58   tango all week you guys the struggle is [TS]

01:58:01   real but I was orange juice but there [TS]

01:58:04   was a chalky um chocolate milk sort of [TS]

01:58:08   thing there was what was the other one [TS]

01:58:11   shows that aren't one was the decoy I [TS]

01:58:12   almost rush you're the one to get my [TS]

01:58:14   girl finally a mango tango pick when [TS]

01:58:15   he's up for Casey but it was a decoy it [TS]

01:58:17   was there was a decoy a mango in it [TS]

01:58:19   right [TS]

01:58:20   yeah it was a I think so I tweeted about [TS]

01:58:22   at some point uh but yeah it was the [TS]

01:58:24   entire week in terms of Odwalla was one [TS]

01:58:26   long troll Casey list and now I know [TS]

01:58:28   exactly how you felt several years ago [TS]

01:58:30   Marko when you had the long troll of [TS]

01:58:32   Mark Worman when they took away [TS]

01:58:34   strawberry sea monster yep it was the [TS]

01:58:37   worst you guys was the worst it was also [TS]

01:58:40   funny talking to people because you know [TS]

01:58:41   after I've been chatting about it both [TS]

01:58:43   online and on the show people came up to [TS]

01:58:44   me and one of the common things that [TS]

01:58:46   everyone said to me was did you ever [TS]

01:58:48   look at the nutrition information on a [TS]

01:58:50   nod wallah [TS]

01:58:50   and the story I told that much is true [TS]

01:58:52   is that it wasn't until like my third or [TS]

01:58:55   fourth dub-dub that I finally took a [TS]

01:58:56   look at the nutrition information those [TS]

01:58:58   things are like three or four hundred [TS]

01:58:59   calories of [TS]

01:59:00   or something like that whatever the [TS]

01:59:01   number is it is intense there's no way [TS]

01:59:04   like any kind of like juice that you're [TS]

01:59:06   gonna be having like in general public [TS]

01:59:08   drink it needs tons of sugar to taste [TS]

01:59:10   good it's always gonna have tons of [TS]

01:59:13   sugar yeah it was it's bad but anyway so [TS]

01:59:17   the Odwalla that was the thing so the [TS]

01:59:19   box launches in John at this point feel [TS]

01:59:21   free to jump in whenever you're ready oh [TS]

01:59:22   I'm sorry I shouldn't get to box lunches [TS]

01:59:23   I should mention the breakfast the [TS]

01:59:26   breakfast I think I only had one day [TS]

01:59:27   because I was running around most the [TS]

01:59:29   other day sometimes in social policy uh [TS]

01:59:31   did they have the world's worst bagels [TS]

01:59:33   John as per usual oh they did that's [TS]

01:59:35   right we have to talk about the cream [TS]

01:59:36   cheese yeah that was a downgrade I feel [TS]

01:59:38   like I said downgrade on the breakfast [TS]

01:59:40   starting off with a breakfast I always [TS]

01:59:41   have the breakfast because they have [TS]

01:59:42   they usually have a lot of junk food for [TS]

01:59:44   breakfast is like well you're gonna get [TS]

01:59:46   bad quality food make it junk food [TS]

01:59:48   because drunk I'm gonna tell you one [TS]

01:59:49   thing by the way the breakfast the [TS]

01:59:51   social policy was amazing like they had [TS]

01:59:54   like five or six different amazing [TS]

01:59:56   options it's so good it was like yeah [TS]

01:59:56   options it's so good it was like yeah [TS]

02:00:00   I've ever had at a conference yeah if [TS]

02:00:03   you the social quality breakfast this [TS]

02:00:04   definitely looks better but the junk [TS]

02:00:06   food they usually have in San Francisco [TS]

02:00:08   the past few years is they have various [TS]

02:00:11   kinds of danishes with some kind of [TS]

02:00:13   fruit jelly again ninety percent sugar [TS]

02:00:15   speaking of things that appear to be [TS]

02:00:18   fruit but are actually just sugar donuts [TS]

02:00:21   is it would normally have at San [TS]

02:00:23   Francisco they also have bagels and that [TS]

02:00:26   are they really is that whatever West [TS]

02:00:29   Coast bagels with with with a bunch of [TS]

02:00:31   different spreads that butter you can [TS]

02:00:32   put on usually jelly and also whipped [TS]

02:00:34   cream cheese alright so this year it [TS]

02:00:37   seemed like the same stuff oh there are [TS]

02:00:38   the danishes with a little fruit in the [TS]

02:00:39   middle oh there are the quote-unquote [TS]

02:00:41   bagels but the cream cheese and the [TS]

02:00:44   spread situation was kind of grim they [TS]

02:00:46   did have butter in little balls but I [TS]

02:00:47   think it was unsalted butter which is [TS]

02:00:49   kind of a technical foul there I don't [TS]

02:00:51   like that cream cheese I did not have [TS]

02:00:55   yeah they do not have a giant you know [TS]

02:00:59   open vat of whipped cream cheese instead [TS]

02:01:01   they had Casey proof packages [TS]

02:01:04   Philadelphia looking for the toilet off [TS]

02:01:06   your brand Casey it was okay case you [TS]

02:01:09   from okay alright so now I have to use [TS]

02:01:11   these a tiny man yeah like I have to [TS]

02:01:14   fill in some color commentary so I don't [TS]

02:01:17   know I don't think I'm going to be able [TS]

02:01:18   to find an image of this but um but it [TS]

02:01:21   Americans anyway I think this is a [TS]

02:01:23   uniquely American thing so Kraft makes a [TS]

02:01:25   cream cheese call it the brand is [TS]

02:01:27   Philadelphia Cream Cheese and one of the [TS]

02:01:28   ways it comes is rather than in a tub it [TS]

02:01:30   comes as like a little brick if you've [TS]

02:01:33   ever held or opened a brick of [TS]

02:01:35   Philadelphia Cream Cheese it has this [TS]

02:01:37   unique wrapper in it Marco do you know [TS]

02:01:39   what I'm talking about it's like sort of [TS]

02:01:40   aluminum foil but yeah it's it's a [TS]

02:01:43   rectangle that's kind yet kind of oily [TS]

02:01:45   but it's it's thick it's lined right and [TS]

02:01:49   and then it has that weird Ridge across [TS]

02:01:52   the top you gotta like try to peel apart [TS]

02:01:54   exactly okay so with that mental model [TS]

02:01:56   in mind and again if you're not from [TS]