The Accidental Tech Podcast

228: I Never Cancel a Drag


00:00:00   why is chrome using a hundred percent of [TS]

00:00:02   my CPU because Chrome oh I know why I [TS]

00:00:04   have an apple tab open that's why you [TS]

00:00:06   know when they added that thing where [TS]

00:00:08   they put like a little speaker icon [TS]

00:00:09   which by the way this is kind of like a [TS]

00:00:11   telephone icon it's one of those things [TS]

00:00:12   that I wonder about people how people [TS]

00:00:15   recognize it except just by like pattern [TS]

00:00:17   matching like you know the you know the [TS]

00:00:19   speaker icon looks like a paper cone [TS]

00:00:22   with a little magnet coiled like but in [TS]

00:00:25   profile show you like which tab is [TS]

00:00:27   making sound yeah with the sound wave [TS]

00:00:29   coming out of it do people even know [TS]

00:00:30   that that's supposed to be a speaker do [TS]

00:00:32   they just think that's the sound symbol [TS]

00:00:33   anyway because who the hell knows what a [TS]

00:00:37   speaker looks like these days right [TS]

00:00:39   certainly the speakers in our phones and [TS]

00:00:41   iPads don't look like that I mean they [TS]

00:00:42   have the same part maybe they have [TS]

00:00:44   similar parts fulfilling similar look [TS]

00:00:46   like anyway they have that thing where [TS]

00:00:48   you can find oh what tab is making the [TS]

00:00:50   noise like Safari has it in chrome has [TS]

00:00:51   it they have some way for you to find [TS]

00:00:53   the tab that's making the noise which is [TS]

00:00:55   like oh that's great this is a good [TS]

00:00:56   feature they recognize this this need [TS]

00:00:58   it's annoying when you can't find the [TS]

00:00:59   tab that's making noise then you find it [TS]

00:01:01   and you know kill it or close it but [TS]

00:01:03   then we when you relaunch the browser [TS]

00:01:05   and it like restores the state of your [TS]

00:01:07   previous session all of the tabs that [TS]

00:01:11   were they could possibly make noise like [TS]

00:01:12   everything you start to autoplay yeah [TS]

00:01:15   you have seven seven YouTube videos and [TS]

00:01:16   they all start playing it's like whoa [TS]

00:01:17   you're so close you're like you've given [TS]

00:01:20   the information to stop one when they [TS]

00:01:21   start spontaneously or lose track and [TS]

00:01:23   you don't autoplay when tabs load in the [TS]

00:01:25   background but when i rewatch from you [TS]

00:01:27   note and restore a state it says you [TS]

00:01:29   know what I bet this person wants seven [TS]

00:01:30   YouTube videos all play at the same time [TS]

00:01:32   let me do that and then yes I can find [TS]

00:01:34   them and stop them all one by one you [TS]

00:01:37   know what a solution of this problem is [TS]

00:01:39   John having fewer tabs couple of tabs [TS]

00:01:41   open that is a completely reasonable [TS]

00:01:44   solution doesn't say it doesn't make [TS]

00:01:46   many like I think I only had four tabs [TS]

00:01:48   playing but you know because I had a [TS]

00:01:50   bunch of YouTube videos up you know [TS]

00:01:51   doing YouTube research right and you [TS]

00:01:53   have a bunch of videos open in tabs [TS]

00:01:55   which is fine you watch them one at a [TS]

00:01:56   time you leave them open some of them [TS]

00:01:57   are like pause in the middle but then [TS]

00:01:59   you launch your browser for whatever [TS]

00:02:01   reason and they all start playing [TS]

00:02:04   alright so I have some follow-up about [TS]

00:02:06   my MacBook / MacBook one slash Mac look [TS]

00:02:09   adorable [TS]

00:02:10   you've made it already don't no no no [TS]

00:02:13   there are people that are very perturbed [TS]

00:02:15   about the MacBook adorable nickname and [TS]

00:02:17   I think your monsters not really but I [TS]

00:02:20   don't understand why people are so upset [TS]

00:02:21   by this a lot of people wrote in to [TS]

00:02:24   recommend a particular kind of port [TS]

00:02:26   replicator that apparently will solve [TS]

00:02:28   all of my problems because it has power [TS]

00:02:30   in it has a thorough net it has USB [TS]

00:02:32   ports it has an SD card reader and on [TS]

00:02:34   the surface they are correct but the [TS]

00:02:37   reason I didn't buy this was a couple [TS]

00:02:39   one it was very expensive although the [TS]

00:02:42   sum total of the other dongles I got was [TS]

00:02:43   probably at least as much if not more [TS]

00:02:46   than this is and we'll put an example on [TS]

00:02:47   the show notes but there appear to be [TS]

00:02:49   like seven different manufacturers at [TS]

00:02:51   all white label or excuse me sever [TS]

00:02:52   different several different companies [TS]

00:02:53   that all white label the same thing [TS]

00:02:55   that's manufactured by gosh knows who [TS]

00:02:56   yeah but anyway the main reason I was [TS]

00:02:59   not in terribly interested in this is [TS]

00:03:00   from what I had seen when I did a little [TS]

00:03:04   bit of research in order to get the [TS]

00:03:06   Ethernet port to work you have to [TS]

00:03:09   install a kernel extension like a [TS]

00:03:12   specific driver or whatever it was like [TS]

00:03:15   nope I'm out and that was problem number [TS]

00:03:18   one and problem number two is it looks [TS]

00:03:20   very small and it appears on the surface [TS]

00:03:25   to be very small but in actuality it is [TS]

00:03:28   quite large or larger than I would want [TS]

00:03:31   and like when I went to Chicago last [TS]

00:03:33   week with the adorable I didn't bring [TS]

00:03:34   the ethernet / USB [TS]

00:03:36   I almost said hub I guess it is kind of [TS]

00:03:38   a hub but anyway I didn't bring that [TS]

00:03:40   dongle I only brought the HDMI dongle [TS]

00:03:42   which I actually used more than a couple [TS]

00:03:45   of times and it worked out very nicely [TS]

00:03:46   but uh but my point is that I do like [TS]

00:03:49   the flexibility of only bringing the one [TS]

00:03:51   or ones that I absolutely need and not [TS]

00:03:53   bringing the one or ones that I don't [TS]

00:03:54   need so I thought I would just mention [TS]

00:03:58   that but I do appreciate the feedback I [TS]

00:03:59   honestly do because sometimes I don't [TS]

00:04:01   see everything and then finally I just [TS]

00:04:03   wanted to point out that I also wrote a [TS]

00:04:07   blog post a review of my MacBook [TS]

00:04:08   adorable so if you want many more words [TS]

00:04:11   than we've already spoken on this [TS]

00:04:12   podcast about the MacBook feel free to [TS]

00:04:15   check that out [TS]

00:04:16   I enjoyed the review thanks thanks I [TS]

00:04:19   appreciate it it was actually a lot [TS]

00:04:20   longer than I intended and for a while I [TS]

00:04:22   thought maybe I'll go through and try to [TS]

00:04:24   cut what I can and then I thought you [TS]

00:04:25   what I'm just gonna leave it because I'd [TS]

00:04:27   love to say because I really like this [TS]

00:04:28   thing anyway we will put links in the [TS]

00:04:31   show notes but uh yeah I really like [TS]

00:04:34   this adorable it is not the fastest [TS]

00:04:35   thing in the world but it is quick [TS]

00:04:37   enough for me and that's all that [TS]

00:04:39   matters [TS]

00:04:39   speaking of these sorts of things Connor [TS]

00:04:41   Brooks writes in and says here's some [TS]

00:04:43   comparison pictures of the 27 excuse me [TS]

00:04:46   2016 vs. 2017 key caps there have been [TS]

00:04:49   there's been a small revision this [TS]

00:04:51   Connor says I've heard that the retrofit [TS]

00:04:53   is known internally as a shim kit and to [TS]

00:04:57   be honest with you I can't really see [TS]

00:04:59   the difference which probably means I'm [TS]

00:05:00   completely missing it I'm sure this [TS]

00:05:02   picture is completely fine I couldn't [TS]

00:05:03   see it either okay good that makes me [TS]

00:05:05   feel a little better yeah I wish there [TS]

00:05:07   was like red arrows or circle like look [TS]

00:05:09   here here's the back and forth and I'm [TS]

00:05:11   like I could not speak am I looking at [TS]

00:05:14   the underside of the key caps I will say [TS]

00:05:16   though I have had a chance to I got a [TS]

00:05:18   chance to try typing on a 2017 MacBook [TS]

00:05:21   Pro in a store and and it really is [TS]

00:05:24   actually a different feeling they they [TS]

00:05:26   it is not like a dramatic difference it [TS]

00:05:29   doesn't feel like a whole different type [TS]

00:05:31   of keyboard but it does feel a little [TS]

00:05:34   softer at like almost as if they put [TS]

00:05:36   like a rubber mat under all the keys so [TS]

00:05:38   like your like your your when you bottom [TS]

00:05:40   out the key it feels like you're [TS]

00:05:41   bottoming out on something rubbery [TS]

00:05:42   instead of something flat and it sounds [TS]

00:05:45   different as well so I think that [TS]

00:05:47   actually is a nice improvement is it [TS]

00:05:49   quieter slightly yeah it's it's a little [TS]

00:05:51   more dull sounding and a little more [TS]

00:05:53   dull feeling like it really does feel [TS]

00:05:55   like they just added some rubber [TS]

00:05:56   somewhere which i think is actually what [TS]

00:05:58   they did but it it is it seems like it's [TS]

00:06:02   better I still would not describe this [TS]

00:06:04   as a good keyboard but they are [TS]

00:06:06   incrementally making it more tolerable [TS]

00:06:08   and if this if they also took this [TS]

00:06:10   opportunity to fix whatever was causing [TS]

00:06:12   the keys to stick and fail then I get [TS]

00:06:16   too aggressive I know so but yeah I hope [TS]

00:06:18   yeah it's and maybe this is it maybe it [TS]

00:06:21   maybe it needed some kind of you know [TS]

00:06:23   rubber o-ring around a certain part or [TS]

00:06:25   something I don't I don't know the [TS]

00:06:27   details but the the 2017 s do definitely [TS]

00:06:29   feel slightly but noticeably different [TS]

00:06:33   yeah I gotta tell you and I talked about [TS]

00:06:35   this in my review so I'm not gonna [TS]

00:06:36   belabor it but when I first got the [TS]

00:06:38   keyboard [TS]

00:06:39   I was like oh I mean I knew what I was [TS]

00:06:41   getting into but at the same time no and [TS]

00:06:43   then I kind of got into like the little [TS]

00:06:45   work I actually kind of liked it now [TS]

00:06:49   that's it I don't I don't know if I like [TS]

00:06:51   that I like it though because I love my [TS]

00:06:54   magic keyboard I I can never come back I [TS]

00:06:59   know so I I do prefer the magic keyboard [TS]

00:07:02   and I think in no small part because I [TS]

00:07:03   prefer a deeper throw and when I when I [TS]

00:07:06   is that the right term for it basically [TS]

00:07:08   I want I want more travel when I push [TS]

00:07:10   the travel on the key I want the key to [TS]

00:07:12   depress whatever amount I don't know [TS]

00:07:14   what the amount is on the magic keyboard [TS]

00:07:15   but I find that to be perfect and on the [TS]

00:07:16   on the MacBook it does not travel into [TS]

00:07:20   the into the MacBook as much as I would [TS]

00:07:21   like and that still frustrates me a [TS]

00:07:23   little bit but you know wait and I [TS]

00:07:26   couldn't figure out how to describe it [TS]

00:07:27   in and only you guys in you know a [TS]

00:07:30   handful of people that read the review [TS]

00:07:32   will truly understand what I meant but [TS]

00:07:33   the only way I can describe it is the [TS]

00:07:35   difference between like a proper shifter [TS]

00:07:38   on a rear-wheel drive car you know we're [TS]

00:07:41   like the shifter is sitting directly [TS]

00:07:44   over the transmission so there's like [TS]

00:07:45   rods that are connecting the shifter [TS]

00:07:48   that you hold in your hand to the [TS]

00:07:49   transmission itself like that feeling of [TS]

00:07:52   sturdiness and notch enos and just good [TS]

00:07:54   feeling that's what the adorable [TS]

00:07:57   keyboard feels like [TS]

00:07:58   whereas especially the the on-board [TS]

00:08:01   keyboard on my older macbook pro so [TS]

00:08:03   before they went to the these and new [TS]

00:08:04   style keyboards that feels like I've [TS]

00:08:07   actually understood Honda's to have very [TS]

00:08:09   good shift linkages but like my Saturn [TS]

00:08:11   which admittedly yes it's a Saturn haha [TS]

00:08:13   I get it but the Saturn had the [TS]

00:08:14   sloppiest worst most disgusting shift [TS]

00:08:17   linkage in the world where he could [TS]

00:08:18   shimmy the stick left and right like an [TS]

00:08:20   inch either direction while the thing is [TS]

00:08:22   in gear it was terrible and that's what [TS]

00:08:24   like the old MacBook Pro feels like and [TS]

00:08:26   the magic keyboard is closer to the [TS]

00:08:29   adorable z' keyboard but not quite as [TS]

00:08:33   sturdy and that sturdiness is actually [TS]

00:08:36   really really really nice and I really [TS]

00:08:38   enjoy it and it seems so silly and and [TS]

00:08:41   if I was listening to this not having [TS]

00:08:42   really had this for a while I would [TS]

00:08:44   think you are bananas that sturdy [TS]

00:08:47   keyboard what but that's the best way I [TS]

00:08:50   can think of to describe it and I don't [TS]

00:08:51   know if this is your [TS]

00:08:53   Macbook what are we calling yours the [TS]

00:08:55   quick escape yeah [TS]

00:08:56   that has the same keyboard that this [TS]

00:08:58   does doesn't it well probably not [TS]

00:09:01   because you probably have the new 2017 [TS]

00:09:03   keys on that oh right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:09:05   right okay but it's very similar mm-hmm [TS]

00:09:08   so you find it to be more sturdy is that [TS]

00:09:10   a decent adjective for it can you figure [TS]

00:09:12   out a better way to describe it I know [TS]

00:09:13   what you mean it's it's basically like [TS]

00:09:15   what Johnny I've and his white world [TS]

00:09:16   video described as precise or stable and [TS]

00:09:20   so I know the feeling unfortunately I [TS]

00:09:22   hesitate to use the word sturdy because [TS]

00:09:23   it's unreliable in the 20 and I haven't [TS]

00:09:28   gotten it replaced by the AppleCare bar [TS]

00:09:30   yet because I just don't I haven't at [TS]

00:09:33   the time then I need to use this [TS]

00:09:35   computer but yeah so i assuming that i [TS]

00:09:39   can get this fixed it'll it'll then be [TS]

00:09:41   probably the same keyboard and then it [TS]

00:09:42   will be precise and stable and sturdy [TS]

00:09:44   and everything else but until then i [TS]

00:09:46   can't agree with the the specific words [TS]

00:09:48   thirty because it keeps failing fair [TS]

00:09:50   enough so coming back to the actual [TS]

00:09:52   point we're trying to make none of the [TS]

00:09:54   three of us can see the difference in [TS]

00:09:55   these two pictures no but there is a [TS]

00:09:58   different hundred out there right back [TS]

00:09:59   in and like mark up these diagrams or [TS]

00:10:02   you know tell us what we're supposed to [TS]

00:10:04   be seeing cuz i've looked at them for a [TS]

00:10:06   long time and i I'm not I'm not getting [TS]

00:10:09   it I I don't doubt that that this this [TS]

00:10:11   is accurate and you know I'm not trying [TS]

00:10:13   to say that this is fake news it's just [TS]

00:10:15   that for my eyes I cannot tell the [TS]

00:10:17   difference I'm sure there's a difference [TS]

00:10:19   but darned if I can see where it is [TS]

00:10:21   alright moving on [TS]

00:10:23   Joseph writes a very very fascinating [TS]

00:10:27   email about USBC yeah this was awesome [TS]

00:10:30   because like his last episode we I had [TS]

00:10:32   complained that one of the problems with [TS]

00:10:35   the USBC lifestyle is that you kind of [TS]

00:10:37   can't go all-in on it yet because see to [TS]

00:10:40   me the one thing I just didn't really [TS]

00:10:42   ever come around to saying but I should [TS]

00:10:44   have said is like my goal here is okay [TS]

00:10:46   if I have a laptop that has all USB C [TS]

00:10:48   ports on it let me go to Amazon and just [TS]

00:10:51   buy all new cables for everything the [TS]

00:10:52   end in USB C and then I can totally [TS]

00:10:56   avoid having to use weird adapters a [TS]

00:10:57   liver the place for almost anything [TS]

00:10:59   I'll just get USB C cables for all my [TS]

00:11:02   stuff and if I need to and I can get a [TS]

00:11:03   couple of new things like a USB C card [TS]

00:11:05   reader and [TS]

00:11:06   a couple of things and then I'm [TS]

00:11:07   converted and I can just bring USBC [TS]

00:11:10   cables with me on trips that is the [TS]

00:11:12   dream and that is pretty much impossible [TS]

00:11:14   to do in practice or it's hard to do in [TS]

00:11:17   practice because my complaint last time [TS]

00:11:19   is basically there are no USB C hubs [TS]

00:11:21   that multiply USB C ports two more USB [TS]

00:11:25   seaports the only one I knew of was the [TS]

00:11:28   one that's inside the LG 5k display [TS]

00:11:30   which converts one to three and those [TS]

00:11:34   are D and those are just USB C 3.1 not [TS]

00:11:37   you know Thunderbolt or DisplayPort [TS]

00:11:39   which we'll get to in a second all week [TS]

00:11:41   people have been sending me hubs and [TS]

00:11:44   they say oh I think this does it almost [TS]

00:11:46   none of them actually do almost every [TS]

00:11:50   other hub that people sent me this past [TS]

00:11:52   week the only thing it did was it had [TS]

00:11:54   USB C import and and a single USBC out [TS]

00:11:58   port so the best it could do is not lose [TS]

00:12:00   you the port but but it still would not [TS]

00:12:03   create more the only product I found [TS]

00:12:05   that actually created more there's a [TS]

00:12:08   Belkin hub for like 30 bucks it has one [TS]

00:12:12   star reviews everywhere because it's [TS]

00:12:15   it's totally passive and unpowered it [TS]

00:12:17   converts one USB C port to two USB C [TS]

00:12:20   ports and two USB a ports and actually [TS]

00:12:22   bought one I have one right here it's [TS]

00:12:24   fine [TS]

00:12:25   it is unpowered so it can't like really [TS]

00:12:26   charge anything meaningfully and you [TS]

00:12:28   can't plug in like high draw current [TS]

00:12:30   things to it but and and the reason it [TS]

00:12:33   has one star reviews everywhere is that [TS]

00:12:34   nobody expected that when they bought it [TS]

00:12:37   and it also does not do power [TS]

00:12:38   pass-through so Casey wouldn't help you [TS]

00:12:40   at all because you couldn't charge your [TS]

00:12:41   bank adorable while you while this will [TS]

00:12:43   slow down but if you have anything but a [TS]

00:12:45   macbook one so if you have any more than [TS]

00:12:46   one USB port you can plug this into one [TS]

00:12:48   of the second ones that's not being used [TS]

00:12:49   for power and you can you can turn more [TS]

00:12:51   important so - so this is the only thing [TS]

00:12:53   out there and everything else does not [TS]

00:12:57   do this and and so Joseph C mail which [TS]

00:12:59   is full of wonderful information about [TS]

00:13:01   us PC spec that he's very familiar with [TS]

00:13:04   basically tells us why it's so what [TS]

00:13:07   basically why aren't their hubs out [TS]

00:13:10   there that multiply USB seaports in two [TS]

00:13:13   more USB sea ports with the same [TS]

00:13:14   capabilities as the ones built into the [TS]

00:13:16   laptop right and so I'm going to read [TS]

00:13:18   most of the scene [TS]

00:13:20   it's a little bit on the long side [TS]

00:13:21   especially for feedback email but it's [TS]

00:13:22   fascinating and I think it's worth it so [TS]

00:13:24   go on go on this journey with me kids [TS]

00:13:26   the problem this is Joseph now the [TS]

00:13:28   problem with doing USBC hubs is the spec [TS]

00:13:30   USBC has alternate modes there's [TS]

00:13:33   Thunderbolt and DisplayPort when you go [TS]

00:13:35   into thunderbolt mode the wires are [TS]

00:13:36   completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

00:13:38   controller hand it over to the [TS]

00:13:39   Thunderbolt controller when you go into [TS]

00:13:41   the DisplayPort mode the wires are [TS]

00:13:42   completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

00:13:44   controller and handed it over to the [TS]

00:13:45   display controller the key here is that [TS]

00:13:47   this is all done at connection time so I [TS]

00:13:49   think you can see the problems with hubs [TS]

00:13:50   if you plug in a hub and nothing's [TS]

00:13:52   plugged into it from below then what is [TS]

00:13:54   it well to USB hub right so now the [TS]

00:13:57   upstream lanes from that hub or USB and [TS]

00:13:59   this is connected inside the PC or Mac [TS]

00:14:00   as USB but those ports below the hub [TS]

00:14:03   haven't changed there's still the same [TS]

00:14:04   USBC connector which can have [TS]

00:14:06   Thunderbolt or DisplayPort devices [TS]

00:14:08   plugged in so now you go to plug in a [TS]

00:14:10   display to the downstream hubs ports [TS]

00:14:12   well it can't be a display because that [TS]

00:14:14   would mean you need to the upstream port [TS]

00:14:16   to be renegotiated as a display you can [TS]

00:14:18   force the rego renegotiation but if you [TS]

00:14:20   did that then none of the other ports [TS]

00:14:22   downstream from the hub can now be USP [TS]

00:14:24   USB ports because the upstream port is [TS]

00:14:27   no longer USB it's DisplayPort and you [TS]

00:14:29   can see a similar issue for Thunderbolt [TS]

00:14:31   now there's an interesting thing here [TS]

00:14:33   and I'm sure somebody at Apple's thought [TS]

00:14:34   of it [TS]

00:14:35   Thunderbolt itself can carry DisplayPort [TS]

00:14:37   it's a Time multiplex bus and since [TS]

00:14:39   Thunderbolt is really just PCI Express [TS]

00:14:41   over a cable with the same multiplexing [TS]

00:14:42   ability of a display you can build a [TS]

00:14:45   Thunderbolt hub or dock that has a USB C [TS]

00:14:47   capable host controller in it and thus [TS]

00:14:50   the upstream is Thunderbolt but the [TS]

00:14:52   downstream ports can still be USB C [TS]

00:14:54   because those ports are now quote [TS]

00:14:55   unquote route ports I think Thunderbolt [TS]

00:14:58   adopting the u.s. PC connector here is [TS]

00:15:00   like a Trojan horse call it USB C but [TS]

00:15:02   instead it's really thunderbolt and [TS]

00:15:04   Thunderbolt takes over the world from [TS]

00:15:06   within the USB C spec by making the [TS]

00:15:09   default behavior of USB C to be the [TS]

00:15:11   thunderbolt alternate mode that is [TS]

00:15:15   fascinating I read this email and was [TS]

00:15:17   like wow this is a lot of text this is [TS]

00:15:19   the sort of email I would normally be [TS]

00:15:20   like okay whatever I am so glad I hadn't [TS]

00:15:23   spent the time because we actually did [TS]

00:15:25   cut some of it this was one of my [TS]

00:15:27   favorite team feedback emails ever it [TS]

00:15:28   was and it tells you basically [TS]

00:15:30   everything you need to know yes I have a [TS]

00:15:32   feeling however the [TS]

00:15:33   that you guys have some thoughts on this [TS]

00:15:35   yeah yeah I mean basically to summarize [TS]

00:15:36   like because of the way it works you you [TS]

00:15:39   basically can't make a hub that is [TS]

00:15:42   reasonably good that multiplies the [TS]

00:15:44   port's that are on the laptop that have [TS]

00:15:46   all the same capabilities so you it's [TS]

00:15:49   you're basically never gonna get one [TS]

00:15:50   that has that can multiply to like more [TS]

00:15:53   displays or more high very high speed [TS]

00:15:55   Thunderbolt peripherals the the problem [TS]

00:15:59   is that you know you buy USB C stuff you [TS]

00:16:02   don't really unless you're painting [TS]

00:16:03   really close attention and you're a huge [TS]

00:16:04   nerd you don't really know which [TS]

00:16:07   alternate mode if any it needs to work [TS]

00:16:09   like I have I have this card reader I [TS]

00:16:12   have some Ethernet adapters and it's [TS]

00:16:14   like well are any of these Thunderbolt [TS]

00:16:16   devices or are they all us PC devices I [TS]

00:16:18   don't actually know and as a nerd I can [TS]

00:16:21   figure out well the problem not the [TS]

00:16:22   normal devices because that would be you [TS]

00:16:24   know overkill but like how are regular [TS]

00:16:27   people supposed to navigate this weird [TS]

00:16:28   world like they tried to make this [TS]

00:16:30   connector this one unified thing and [TS]

00:16:33   this will solve all of our problems but [TS]

00:16:35   in reality this is a world of hurt and [TS]

00:16:38   it's it's complicated by things like you [TS]

00:16:40   know by these alternate modes well yeah [TS]

00:16:41   it's nice that you can put displays and [TS]

00:16:43   Thunderbolt over you know over the same [TS]

00:16:46   connector and stuff but like Casey's [TS]

00:16:49   MacBook one doesn't have Thunderbolt it [TS]

00:16:51   only thing it's just I was just about to [TS]

00:16:54   interrupt you and say exactly right [TS]

00:16:55   because that reminded me one of the [TS]

00:16:56   things that people were one of the [TS]

00:16:58   common themes amongst what people [TS]

00:16:59   suggested for alternate dongles for me [TS]

00:17:02   is Oh use this thing that has everything [TS]

00:17:04   you want and a lot of the times it did [TS]

00:17:06   but it was Thunderbolt and not USB see [TS]

00:17:09   and it wasn't until I got the adorable [TS]

00:17:11   that it was really made clear to me that [TS]

00:17:12   that just like you said Marco this this [TS]

00:17:15   machine does have USB see but it does [TS]

00:17:17   not support Thunderbolt via that [TS]

00:17:19   connector so so I have a very small [TS]

00:17:22   subset of things that I can use that are [TS]

00:17:25   all on the same physical connector but [TS]

00:17:27   internally are very very different yeah [TS]

00:17:29   and so this whole that this these [TS]

00:17:31   connectors are kind of a mess like the [TS]

00:17:33   whole the whole spec the way the [TS]

00:17:34   standard works it's kind of like if you [TS]

00:17:37   just look at USB see as USB 3.1 as the [TS]

00:17:39   protocol and you only connect USB 3.1 or [TS]

00:17:43   3 devices to it that's great then it is [TS]

00:17:45   just a smaller connector for the [TS]

00:17:46   standard [TS]

00:17:47   already had before with usb3 and it's [TS]

00:17:49   great because there's lots of USB [TS]

00:17:50   devices out there and USB 3 is a great [TS]

00:17:52   standard relatively speaking and and we [TS]

00:17:55   can connect everything that's fine the [TS]

00:17:57   problem comes like that there's all [TS]

00:17:59   these little asterisks on it and that's [TS]

00:18:00   going to just end and those asterisks [TS]

00:18:02   apply to devices computers cables and [TS]

00:18:05   hubs all four of those things can screw [TS]

00:18:08   this up in some way and make something [TS]

00:18:10   that you bought just not work for a [TS]

00:18:12   reason that to most people would be a [TS]

00:18:14   mystery and and even though the computer [TS]

00:18:16   can put up some kind of weird dialogue [TS]

00:18:18   of it smart that's still not really [TS]

00:18:20   helping the problem so it's it's nice [TS]

00:18:22   that they unify this all into one [TS]

00:18:23   connector but the implementation details [TS]

00:18:25   make it kind of a mess so the idea of [TS]

00:18:28   the Thunderbolt being like you know the [TS]

00:18:31   catch-all or the Trojan horse like [TS]

00:18:32   everyone's gonna put these ports in [TS]

00:18:34   their machines but they'll eventually [TS]

00:18:35   learn that you know it's neat that you [TS]

00:18:37   can connect display and also USB device [TS]

00:18:40   to that thing but really the only [TS]

00:18:42   protocol that can tunnel everything over [TS]

00:18:43   it and multiply stuff out is Thunderbolt [TS]

00:18:45   so a thunderbolt will take over the [TS]

00:18:47   world because it's the it's the superset [TS]

00:18:49   of everything like won't everybody just [TS]

00:18:50   make everything Thunderbolt because once [TS]

00:18:52   they learn oh you know if you give you [TS]

00:18:55   like this email says if you plug in a [TS]

00:18:56   hub you if the thing has to decide [TS]

00:18:59   whether it is and you know sending [TS]

00:19:01   through DisplayPort a USB or Thunderbolt [TS]

00:19:04   and why wouldn't everybody just a [TS]

00:19:05   thunderbolt and the reason everyone [TS]

00:19:06   won't do thunderbolt is because it's [TS]

00:19:07   more expensive it's more expensive [TS]

00:19:08   everywhere it's more expensive in the [TS]

00:19:10   cables in the in the hardware that's in [TS]

00:19:12   the hubs and the purpose like at USB is [TS]

00:19:15   just cheaper to implement so it's going [TS]

00:19:17   to be very difficult for Thunderbolt to [TS]

00:19:20   take over everywhere and maybe Intel [TS]

00:19:21   opening up with Thunderbolt spec will [TS]

00:19:22   help with this because people can make [TS]

00:19:24   like knockoff controllers legally [TS]

00:19:26   knockoffs but like legally they can [TS]

00:19:28   implement their own spec router but I [TS]

00:19:29   think it's just more expensive to [TS]

00:19:31   implement even if you don't have to do [TS]

00:19:32   the active cables with the chips in them [TS]

00:19:34   because you have a low speed device or [TS]

00:19:35   whatever I'm not entirely sure that you [TS]

00:19:38   we're gonna get the Thunderbolt everyone [TS]

00:19:39   I think it will help for the high end [TS]

00:19:42   devices where people are spending gobs [TS]

00:19:44   and money on the you know upcoming Mac [TS]

00:19:46   Pro and there's a bunch of Thunderbolt [TS]

00:19:48   peripherals that you can attach to it [TS]

00:19:49   and there's tons of you know PCI Express [TS]

00:19:51   Lanes inside the box and you know but I [TS]

00:19:53   think it will probably live on the high [TS]

00:19:55   end but for the medium to low end like [TS]

00:19:57   people just using their laptops [TS]

00:19:58   around it's almost like this is yet [TS]

00:20:02   another problem the more port solve in [TS]

00:20:03   theory again I'm not sure how many lanes [TS]

00:20:05   there are but if you know if you've got [TS]

00:20:06   this port of like oh this one is [TS]

00:20:08   connected to redisplay so it has to be [TS]

00:20:10   display and this one is USB so it's [TS]

00:20:12   connected by USB hub like if if you can [TS]

00:20:14   have more ports and have each individual [TS]

00:20:16   port beside what it wants to be [TS]

00:20:17   independently but you probably can't do [TS]

00:20:19   completely independently once you [TS]

00:20:20   register a number of ports because [TS]

00:20:21   there's just not enough you know [TS]

00:20:23   controllers on the inside but surely you [TS]

00:20:26   know in Casey's case if you had one more [TS]

00:20:28   port that one port could decide well [TS]

00:20:31   he's gonna burn one in power so one is [TS]

00:20:33   power and then USB and then one is [TS]

00:20:36   display so so you had a 3 port computer [TS]

00:20:38   those three ports and those 3 ports [TS]

00:20:40   could decide individually what they [TS]

00:20:41   wanted to be if there was sufficient you [TS]

00:20:43   know controller hardware and [TS]

00:20:44   independence inside the box maybe maybe [TS]

00:20:46   forget about KC's thing sorry adorable [TS]

00:20:47   you're stuck go to Markos computer [TS]

00:20:50   surely Markos computer you could put 4 [TS]

00:20:53   ports in that thing one of the D power [TS]

00:20:54   and three other ones and then those [TS]

00:20:56   three ports can decide what they want to [TS]

00:20:58   be and then you get the advantage of [TS]

00:20:59   having a bunch of uniform ports in your [TS]

00:21:01   computer that are all the same shape and [TS]

00:21:03   size and you just plug display in this [TS]

00:21:05   one and put your hub and this one and [TS]

00:21:07   put your power in that one and they all [TS]

00:21:08   just work but once a daisy chains that [TS]

00:21:10   it's like well what are you even daisy [TS]

00:21:11   chaining like you can't you can't sweep [TS]

00:21:14   that under the carpet because it's not [TS]

00:21:15   like there's one magic protocol that [TS]

00:21:17   does everything well there kind of is [TS]

00:21:19   its Thunderbolt but it's the most [TS]

00:21:20   expensive one and that isn't a lot of [TS]

00:21:22   all your peripherals so every time you [TS]

00:21:24   plug something in you're sort of [TS]

00:21:25   deciding what this port is going to be [TS]

00:21:27   and plugging in a box that has a bunch [TS]

00:21:31   of other ports on it you basically just [TS]

00:21:32   decided that the thing has to be [TS]

00:21:33   Thunderbolt and now everything is [TS]

00:21:34   expensive yes okay uh definitely on the [TS]

00:21:39   Hall of Fame for me for a great feedback [TS]

00:21:41   emails really what that yeah Marco you [TS]

00:21:44   have some home pod follow up according [TS]

00:21:46   to the night news Oh tell me more okay [TS]

00:21:49   so this is this is probably my second [TS]

00:21:51   favorite follow up in the history of [TS]

00:21:52   follow up my favorite follow up in the [TS]

00:21:55   history of follow up is there is an old [TS]

00:21:56   episode of it was either connected or [TS]

00:21:58   the connected predecessor show the [TS]

00:22:00   prompt one of those shows [TS]

00:22:02   Mike had misstated his own age he was [TS]

00:22:05   off by one and a listener wrote in the [TS]

00:22:08   next episode to correct him on his own [TS]

00:22:10   age [TS]

00:22:10   that's my favorite follow-up ever this [TS]

00:22:13   is my second favorite follow-up ever we [TS]

00:22:15   spent about a half hour and a couple [TS]

00:22:17   episodes ago speculating about whether [TS]

00:22:19   the home pod had a screen or not and one [TS]

00:22:23   guy even wrote in to say like it was [TS]

00:22:25   somebody basically like a tipster about [TS]

00:22:27   it saying here's how it's actually [TS]

00:22:28   implemented there's this diffuser and [TS]

00:22:30   there's these LEDs below it and it's not [TS]

00:22:31   really a screen and but it might be a [TS]

00:22:33   screen later on and we talked about this [TS]

00:22:35   for like a half-hour it turns out none [TS]

00:22:37   of us thought to check Apple's site but [TS]

00:22:40   Rob buck house did and Rob buck house [TS]

00:22:44   writes in to say Apple site clears us up [TS]

00:22:46   pretty well there's a section on the [TS]

00:22:48   home pod page that says tap the top of [TS]

00:22:52   home pod to play pause or adjust the [TS]

00:22:53   volume it also shows you when Siri is [TS]

00:22:56   listening with an LED waveform that [TS]

00:22:58   animates with your every word yeah I had [TS]

00:23:00   read that when we did the show that's [TS]

00:23:01   why we talked about the idea of it being [TS]

00:23:03   like okay well maybe this is just a [TS]

00:23:04   temporary one and they'll put the real [TS]

00:23:06   screen on it later so who knows I [TS]

00:23:08   thought we had all read the website at [TS]

00:23:09   the time we were discussing it yeah but [TS]

00:23:11   I think if Apple is putting this on [TS]

00:23:12   their product page saying this is what [TS]

00:23:14   home pod does and this is the thing it [TS]

00:23:16   has that's it that's final yeah that's [TS]

00:23:18   what they're doing if you read the text [TS]

00:23:20   there's no screen describe something as [TS]

00:23:22   an LED waveform even if it's a screen [TS]

00:23:24   because you know they have like LED TV [TS]

00:23:26   they wouldn't say LED I know LED TVs [TS]

00:23:28   aren't really LED right and if it was [TS]

00:23:31   old I said it would say it would say [TS]

00:23:33   OLED like it's not and it's if it was a [TS]

00:23:35   if it was an LCD screen it would say LCD [TS]

00:23:37   or it would say anything I said it fits [TS]

00:23:40   within if they wanted to change this to [TS]

00:23:42   a screen they wouldn't have to change [TS]

00:23:43   that copy but but either way as I said [TS]

00:23:46   on the show it this is not the type of [TS]

00:23:48   thing that you would do as a stopgap [TS]

00:23:50   right because it's just too complicated [TS]

00:23:53   it's too complicated and too polished to [TS]

00:23:56   have in there as a stopgap if they if [TS]

00:23:58   they were gonna make it a bitmap display [TS]

00:24:00   they would already have done that they [TS]

00:24:02   wouldn't have spent all this time on [TS]

00:24:03   this weird thing yeah I fix it well show [TS]

00:24:07   us exactly how many colored LEDs are [TS]

00:24:09   inside there but it's probably fewer [TS]

00:24:12   than her in the Google home because I [TS]

00:24:13   think Google home like I said Google [TS]

00:24:14   them it's like a ring of them so it's [TS]

00:24:17   got a lot this probably just has I don't [TS]

00:24:18   know maybe 20 who knows [TS]

00:24:21   we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

00:24:24   who prints vivid color photos directly [TS]

00:24:26   on glass visit fracture maqams / podcast [TS]

00:24:30   for more info fracture is a photo decor [TS]

00:24:32   company that's out to rescue your [TS]

00:24:34   favorite photos from the digital either [TS]

00:24:36   they print photos directly on to glass [TS]

00:24:38   with a laser-cut rigid backing so it's [TS]

00:24:41   ready to hang up right out of the box [TS]

00:24:42   they even include the wall anchor all [TS]

00:24:44   you have to do is upload a digital photo [TS]

00:24:47   and pick your size it is that simple and [TS]

00:24:49   the fracture printing process makes the [TS]

00:24:51   color and contrast really pop and the [TS]

00:24:54   sleek edge to edge frameless design of [TS]

00:24:57   these wonderful pieces of glass lets [TS]

00:24:59   your photo stand out and it matches [TS]

00:25:01   pretty much any decorating style and [TS]

00:25:03   again you don't have to get these frame [TS]

00:25:04   they are their own thing already so you [TS]

00:25:07   hang it up it's ready to go and it looks [TS]

00:25:08   great with fracture you can bring a [TS]

00:25:11   special memory to life and they also [TS]

00:25:13   make fantastic gifts if you want to get [TS]

00:25:16   them for their special people in your [TS]

00:25:17   life maybe you take a photo of your kid [TS]

00:25:19   or your dog and give it to you know [TS]

00:25:21   their grandparents like they really [TS]

00:25:22   appreciate that these make wonderful [TS]

00:25:23   gifts we've given lots of them over time [TS]

00:25:25   we have our our house is filled with [TS]

00:25:27   fractures they're amazing they look [TS]

00:25:29   great we get compliments on them all the [TS]

00:25:30   time [TS]

00:25:31   Tiff's are actually recently ordered a [TS]

00:25:32   giant one eye it's something like 2 feet [TS]

00:25:35   wide and it looks fantastic and then it [TS]

00:25:38   comes in a massive box [TS]

00:25:39   it's pretty great and they scale up from [TS]

00:25:41   like the size of a CD cover all the way [TS]

00:25:43   up to that and it looks great fracture [TS]

00:25:45   comes with a 60-day happiness guarantee [TS]

00:25:47   on all prints so you're sure to love [TS]

00:25:49   your order and each fracture is handmade [TS]

00:25:51   in gainesville florida from us source [TS]

00:25:53   materials and a carbon-neutral factory [TS]

00:25:55   for more information and 10% off your [TS]

00:25:57   first order visit fracture me comm slash [TS]

00:26:00   podcast and in there give you a [TS]

00:26:02   one-question survey basically just ask [TS]

00:26:04   you what podcasts did you hear about [TS]

00:26:05   this from so make sure you put a teepee [TS]

00:26:07   in there so that they know you came from [TS]

00:26:09   here it helps support us and it helps [TS]

00:26:11   tell them where their ads are working so [TS]

00:26:12   it's great for everybody once again to [TS]

00:26:14   get 10% of your first order go to [TS]

00:26:16   fracture me.com slash podcast and make [TS]

00:26:19   sure to tell them that a teepee sent you [TS]

00:26:21   thank you very much to fracture for [TS]

00:26:23   sponsoring our show [TS]

00:26:24   [Music] [TS]

00:26:27   speaking of new family members Marco you [TS]

00:26:30   have welcomed a new family member to [TS]

00:26:32   your house can you tell us about this [TS]

00:26:34   well there's master risks on that [TS]

00:26:36   did you already return it is that the [TS]

00:26:38   essence today I received my my pre-order [TS]

00:26:42   of the echo show the new Amazon echo [TS]

00:26:45   device with the screen and the the [TS]

00:26:50   reviews had come out yesterday or the [TS]

00:26:52   day before and their reviews showed it [TS]

00:26:54   in different angles and in real life [TS]

00:26:57   before this when we were pre-ordered we [TS]

00:26:59   were only shown like the product shots [TS]

00:27:01   which were taken at a very careful angle [TS]

00:27:03   and even at that very ideal flattering [TS]

00:27:06   angle this looks like a pretty ugly [TS]

00:27:08   product but I thought okay but you know [TS]

00:27:10   the echos I love the echo cylinder it's [TS]

00:27:12   really useful we use it all the time and [TS]

00:27:15   there are contexts in which it would be [TS]

00:27:17   nice to have a screen you know there you [TS]

00:27:19   know there is you know the timer is [TS]

00:27:21   especially timers the big one you can [TS]

00:27:23   watch the timer countdown or like a lot [TS]

00:27:24   of like Tiff's will ask it about the [TS]

00:27:26   weather in the morning it would be nice [TS]

00:27:27   to see that so as opposed to you know [TS]

00:27:28   just having to sit through this like [TS]

00:27:30   four sentence long description of the [TS]

00:27:33   weather you know so a screen would be [TS]

00:27:36   helpful we thought and I convinced if [TS]

00:27:39   despite the way it looked [TS]

00:27:40   - - let me preorder one and try it so we [TS]

00:27:43   get it here set it up plug it in and boy [TS]

00:27:47   the thing is hideous in person I mean it [TS]

00:27:49   is really ugly in person and and if you [TS]

00:27:52   look at all the reviews and we got the [TS]

00:27:53   white one - I figured that would be a [TS]

00:27:55   little bit less hideous no it's just as [TS]

00:27:57   hideous is it is it uglier than the [TS]

00:28:00   original Kindle no but it is larger all [TS]

00:28:04   right like I think it is it can't be [TS]

00:28:07   uglier but it does it doesn't pose the [TS]

00:28:11   obvious that it has it doesn't pose that [TS]

00:28:13   more in your face than the original [TS]

00:28:14   Kindle that is it right there and so let [TS]

00:28:18   me expand on that so basically so it [TS]

00:28:23   would plug it and now like because I [TS]

00:28:25   hadn't opened up the Alexa app in a long [TS]

00:28:27   time I had not yet connected it to being [TS]

00:28:31   a try to do it's like FaceTime or [TS]

00:28:33   calling thing so I open it up in order [TS]

00:28:35   to set this up I'm required to give the [TS]

00:28:38   Alexa app [TS]

00:28:39   real name and confirm it and then it [TS]

00:28:42   really tries hard to get me to give it a [TS]

00:28:44   phone number and access to my contact [TS]

00:28:46   list so we can periodically sync it with [TS]

00:28:47   us at the gammas on service and i say no [TS]

00:28:49   no no and there's no that you can skip [TS]

00:28:51   that part you can skip the contact and [TS]

00:28:52   phone number part but you can't skip the [TS]

00:28:53   name part and you I don't see any way to [TS]

00:28:56   opt out of calling completely I don't [TS]

00:29:00   want people calling me on my echo [TS]

00:29:02   I know Amazon just launched the service [TS]

00:29:03   where they you know they are doing that [TS]

00:29:05   they had like their own like FaceTime [TS]

00:29:07   network I could not possibly care less [TS]

00:29:09   or be less interested in using it like [TS]

00:29:12   we have a million other ways to do that [TS]

00:29:13   now that are all better and not run by [TS]

00:29:15   could be companies like Amazon so that [TS]

00:29:17   the whole idea of being forced to set [TS]

00:29:19   this up and not having a clear opt-out [TS]

00:29:21   really put me off so I was already kind [TS]

00:29:23   of unhappy and maybe that colored my [TS]

00:29:26   later reaction so we set the thing up [TS]

00:29:28   the first thing that's to do is the [TS]

00:29:29   software update okay fine [TS]

00:29:31   software B takes forever no can't walk [TS]

00:29:34   away you know obviously they couldn't [TS]

00:29:36   update the software you know before they [TS]

00:29:38   ship to me two days ago but okay and [TS]

00:29:41   then the thing finally boots up and the [TS]

00:29:45   screen is super bright and I know we can [TS]

00:29:48   probably change that but the screen is [TS]

00:29:49   super bright and it's just blaring news [TS]

00:29:54   headlines at you that you that lates and [TS]

00:29:57   it the frit it's like you know some [TS]

00:29:58   celebrity baby thing I don't care at all [TS]

00:30:01   like the last thing I want is for this [TS]

00:30:04   screen to be blaring visually blaring [TS]

00:30:07   news headlines at me and we tried a [TS]

00:30:10   couple things okay I guess we'll set [TS]

00:30:12   this up like we don't have calendars [TS]

00:30:13   paired yet so the counter screen is not [TS]

00:30:14   usually yet but I really want to give [TS]

00:30:16   Amazon access to my calendar well maybe [TS]

00:30:18   not me okay I won't judge it on that [TS]

00:30:20   let's try playing some music so the [TS]

00:30:24   first thing is it completely fails to [TS]

00:30:26   recognize my Amazon music whatever [TS]

00:30:29   whatever the subscription is that is on [TS]

00:30:31   the echo that like the premium thing for [TS]

00:30:32   the echo there's like four bucks a month [TS]

00:30:34   we have that and it totally failed to [TS]

00:30:36   recognize it I don't know why it [TS]

00:30:38   eventually started working the sound [TS]

00:30:41   quality on it is really poor it is only [TS]

00:30:45   a very small improvement over the echo [TS]

00:30:48   cylinder and I don't care for that like [TS]

00:30:51   they had all this time [TS]

00:30:53   this device costs two hundred and thirty [TS]

00:30:55   dollars and granted yes it has a screen [TS]

00:30:57   and everything so that's that's a pretty [TS]

00:30:58   good price for order is but they [TS]

00:31:00   couldn't improve the sound quality like [TS]

00:31:01   that think that's like the one major [TS]

00:31:03   problem with the echo cylinders sound [TS]

00:31:04   quality and they they really I would say [TS]

00:31:07   they almost didn't improve it at all [TS]

00:31:09   it's it's very very close to the old one [TS]

00:31:11   and and it just like it just keeps [TS]

00:31:15   blaring this this screen at us and I and [TS]

00:31:19   TIFF was very quickly out of love and I [TS]

00:31:22   and I very quickly followed because what [TS]

00:31:24   I realized was regardless of what anyone [TS]

00:31:27   else thinks of this product I had made a [TS]

00:31:29   mistake in thinking it was right for us [TS]

00:31:30   because one thing that I now realize in [TS]

00:31:35   retrospect that we like about the echo [TS]

00:31:37   cylinder is that it is it does not take [TS]

00:31:40   visual attention away from anything it [TS]

00:31:42   is this you know it's not pretty but [TS]

00:31:44   it's discreet you know it's this black [TS]

00:31:46   cylinder you put somewhere they had to [TS]

00:31:47   come in white to now so it's the [TS]

00:31:49   cylinder you put somewhere and you don't [TS]

00:31:51   really ever have to look at it it [TS]

00:31:53   doesn't draw attention to itself so the [TS]

00:31:56   the echo cylinder fits into your life in [TS]

00:31:59   a more discreet way the echo show with [TS]

00:32:02   the screen draws attention in it draws [TS]

00:32:06   your eyes and it takes attention out of [TS]

00:32:08   the room and it does it for something [TS]

00:32:12   that really doesn't deserve that kind of [TS]

00:32:13   attention it is it is just this the [TS]

00:32:15   screen in your kitchen that's telling [TS]

00:32:17   you about Kanye's baby or whatever and I [TS]

00:32:20   could not possibly like and yeah I'm [TS]

00:32:23   sure I can figure those things in in [TS]

00:32:26   some different way but just like this [TS]

00:32:28   thing draws your eye and it's designed [TS]

00:32:30   to do that it's Amazon stuff is not good [TS]

00:32:34   enough to make it worth using they're [TS]

00:32:35   they're gooeys and I kind of knew that [TS]

00:32:38   already I don't I don't know why I [TS]

00:32:39   thought those would be any different [TS]

00:32:41   but for some reason I thought this would [TS]

00:32:42   be different and that was a mistake so [TS]

00:32:44   this thing is not for us at all so I'm [TS]

00:32:47   returning it well that's disappointing [TS]

00:32:49   but maybe you got the Amazon echo show [TS]

00:32:52   with special offers paid 50 bucks more [TS]

00:32:55   without special offers yeah and and and [TS]

00:32:59   what one of the things that makes me sad [TS]

00:33:02   about this is I realize like what [TS]

00:33:06   there is a future where they make their [TS]

00:33:09   app even worse and they make me and they [TS]

00:33:12   require my calling information or [TS]

00:33:14   whatever else or they require more stuff [TS]

00:33:16   I don't want to give them or if there's [TS]

00:33:18   a future in which all echos have screens [TS]

00:33:21   and and there is no more option to get [TS]

00:33:23   on that or or that the ones without [TS]

00:33:24   screens start sucking because they [TS]

00:33:26   because the service assumes you always [TS]

00:33:28   have one or something like that [TS]

00:33:29   you know like it made me realize I quite [TS]

00:33:31   how fragile this ecosystem is because [TS]

00:33:34   this was depending on Amazon doing this [TS]

00:33:35   one cool thing just just keep doing it [TS]

00:33:37   like there's one thing they made it's [TS]

00:33:39   great this the cylinders like they're [TS]

00:33:40   great just keep doing that but instead [TS]

00:33:42   they're broadening outreaches weird [TS]

00:33:44   creepy things like the look and and the [TS]

00:33:46   show that are going in a direction that [TS]

00:33:48   I really don't like and again if you you [TS]

00:33:51   know if you listeners like this stuff [TS]

00:33:54   that's fine [TS]

00:33:54   all I'm saying is this was dramatically [TS]

00:33:57   not for us and not but not the kind of [TS]

00:34:00   thing we were looking for even though I [TS]

00:34:01   probably should have no not going in but [TS]

00:34:02   I didn't oh well sometimes it happens [TS]

00:34:04   but it made me think for a second like [TS]

00:34:07   I'm actually gonna be really sad if this [TS]

00:34:11   ecosystem goes south in a way that ruins [TS]

00:34:15   the cylinder for us because I really [TS]

00:34:17   like the cylinder the way it has been [TS]

00:34:19   and if that goes away like I mean I [TS]

00:34:24   guess we could try the the Google air [TS]

00:34:26   freshener but I'm not a big fan of that [TS]

00:34:28   the home pod might be great but we don't [TS]

00:34:31   really know yet and honestly the more I [TS]

00:34:34   keep trying Syria I keep giving it the [TS]

00:34:36   benefit of the doubt and it keeps making [TS]

00:34:38   me not want to try it anymore [TS]

00:34:40   I don't have a good luck with Siri so so [TS]

00:34:43   I'm not incredibly optimistic about that [TS]

00:34:45   and and the home pod is also larger and [TS]

00:34:49   much more expensive and so it'll be hard [TS]

00:34:51   to justify buying you know more than one [TS]

00:34:53   of them or I don't know home pod is a [TS]

00:34:55   big question mark [TS]

00:34:56   I hope Amazon does not screw up what [TS]

00:34:59   they have that's really great with the [TS]

00:35:01   echo cylinders with the new weird creepy [TS]

00:35:03   stuff they're trying to do now so what [TS]

00:35:05   did you think you were going to get from [TS]

00:35:06   from the echo show when you bought it [TS]

00:35:09   like I don't mean that in an in a nasty [TS]

00:35:12   way I'm genuinely asking like did you [TS]

00:35:14   think oh it'll be really nice to have I [TS]

00:35:17   don't know a visible view of your [TS]

00:35:19   grocery list [TS]

00:35:20   you'd made mention of your calendar like [TS]

00:35:22   what sorts of things did you think this [TS]

00:35:24   was going to help out with that it seems [TS]

00:35:28   to either not or do a crummy job of it [TS]

00:35:30   the only reasons I really wanted the [TS]

00:35:32   screen were to show me timers and [TS]

00:35:34   whether that's about it and and I and we [TS]

00:35:38   don't I didn't need the screen like we [TS]

00:35:41   get along just fine with a cylinder but [TS]

00:35:43   it would just be nicer to be able to [TS]

00:35:45   like just glance at timer statuses and [TS]

00:35:47   just and just you know see the weather [TS]

00:35:48   presented without having to listen to [TS]

00:35:50   the full you know three sentence [TS]

00:35:51   description with all the words in it [TS]

00:35:52   like that would be nice and this is [TS]

00:35:55   again like everyone out there is yelling [TS]

00:35:57   at me to just you know we're an Apple [TS]

00:35:58   watch because then it really does solve [TS]

00:36:00   many of these problems and Siri even [TS]

00:36:03   occasionally works on that so that that [TS]

00:36:05   that could be nice but it but it's just [TS]

00:36:07   not the way I want to do things so you [TS]

00:36:10   know this is all really nitpicky stuff [TS]

00:36:11   and this technology is all really [TS]

00:36:13   amazing so it feels weird to complain [TS]

00:36:14   about any of it really because in like [TS]

00:36:16   absolute terms this is all amazing and [TS]

00:36:19   we should be thankful we have any of it [TS]

00:36:20   but in relative terms I never want to [TS]

00:36:24   use an Amazon GUI if I can help it and I [TS]

00:36:27   think what I was what I was hoping for [TS]

00:36:29   is more like what we thought the home [TS]

00:36:34   pod might be before we read Apple's site [TS]

00:36:36   which is like just a very small discreet [TS]

00:36:41   screen output for small amounts of [TS]

00:36:44   information to be presented subtly that [TS]

00:36:47   I that I think would be nice [TS]

00:36:49   it could even still be an echo cylinder [TS]

00:36:52   just with like a little like like an [TS]

00:36:55   OLED strip around the top to do like a [TS]

00:36:58   Time Square kind of like you know [TS]

00:36:59   scrolling marquee kind of size something [TS]

00:37:01   like something small and discreet that [TS]

00:37:04   does not draw your eye that that like if [TS]

00:37:07   there's no timers and if there's nothing [TS]

00:37:09   that you've asked for recently it would [TS]

00:37:10   just be blank that would be nice [TS]

00:37:13   but that doesn't that is terrible by the [TS]

00:37:15   way nobody I know that actually is that [TS]

00:37:17   but like okay a small screen like like a [TS]

00:37:19   watch sized screen right you could have [TS]

00:37:21   like two timer stack they're counting [TS]

00:37:23   down and it would be fine you know like [TS]

00:37:25   something small on the screen is what I [TS]

00:37:27   wanted and this is not that this is like [TS]

00:37:31   this becomes the center of attention in [TS]

00:37:33   your kitchen [TS]

00:37:34   or wherever you put it it's like a tea [TS]

00:37:36   it's like having a TV on and I'm the [TS]

00:37:38   kind of person that if I'm in a [TS]

00:37:39   restaurant that has TVs and there's one [TS]

00:37:42   in my field of view I'm constantly [TS]

00:37:44   distracted by it and I don't want to be [TS]

00:37:46   but my eyes just drawn to it that's how [TS]

00:37:49   this is even though it's not always like [TS]

00:37:51   moving and stuff all that sometimes is [TS]

00:37:52   but like it just constantly drew my eye [TS]

00:37:55   to it and I couldn't ignore it and it [TS]

00:37:59   really deserves to be ignored most of [TS]

00:38:00   the time so if if what you want is more [TS]

00:38:03   TV like screens that are always on in [TS]

00:38:06   your life this might be for you but [TS]

00:38:08   that's not what I want it feels like you [TS]

00:38:10   could have gotten this thing quieted [TS]

00:38:13   down so to speak get it to the point [TS]

00:38:15   where I mean I don't even know if it [TS]

00:38:17   displays the time or in the weather [TS]

00:38:18   stuff but in theory one of the things [TS]

00:38:20   that Amazon might have a leg up over [TS]

00:38:22   Apple on is just saying oh we'll just [TS]

00:38:25   make everything configurable like you'll [TS]

00:38:26   just be you know turn things on turn [TS]

00:38:28   things off whatever and then you can get [TS]

00:38:29   it to the point where all it ever [TS]

00:38:30   displays is your three timers in the [TS]

00:38:32   weather and you start looking at it more [TS]

00:38:35   like like an old-style clock radio where [TS]

00:38:38   yeah the light that's constantly on but [TS]

00:38:40   doesn't change much it just shows the [TS]

00:38:41   time all you know I mean yeah it's [TS]

00:38:44   probably wise to wait for a [TS]

00:38:45   second-generation device instead of this [TS]

00:38:48   hideous thing but on the other hand look [TS]

00:38:50   at your cylinder they haven't made great [TS]

00:38:53   strides with that cylinder they did I [TS]

00:38:55   wouldn't worry too much about the [TS]

00:38:56   ecosystem going all screened because [TS]

00:38:57   they still got the the dot and then they [TS]

00:39:00   got the cylinder and then they got this [TS]

00:39:01   and now they've got like a three Park [TS]

00:39:02   family not even counting all the weird [TS]

00:39:05   buttons that you pressed to get paper [TS]

00:39:06   towels and stuff so I think Amazon will [TS]

00:39:09   keep making one of everything but I also [TS]

00:39:12   think if they actually iterate on this [TS]

00:39:14   which remains to be seen it they will [TS]

00:39:16   but if they do iterate on it I think [TS]

00:39:19   this this approach is better than the [TS]

00:39:21   hey just give me cylinder with a tiny [TS]

00:39:23   screen because so whatever the tiny [TS]

00:39:24   screen is just has more limited use [TS]

00:39:26   cases what you really want is instead of [TS]

00:39:28   this this thing looks like like a [TS]

00:39:30   speaker grille housing apparently some [TS]

00:39:31   crappy speakers and then a screen on top [TS]

00:39:34   of it what you really want is for it to [TS]

00:39:35   be and what people are going to suggest [TS]

00:39:37   so why don't you have an iPad in your [TS]

00:39:38   kitchen because then you can run [TS]

00:39:40   whatever app you want you figure out [TS]

00:39:41   whoever you want use hey Siri to do [TS]

00:39:43   everything you want and won't that solve [TS]

00:39:45   your problems and you already hear our [TS]

00:39:46   discuss no it won't biggest seer [TS]

00:39:47   doesn't listen to me and does dumb [TS]

00:39:49   things but having a big giant screen [TS]

00:39:53   that can do anything is much more [TS]

00:39:56   flexible than having a small screen that [TS]

00:39:58   can do the three things that you want to [TS]

00:40:00   do with it [TS]

00:40:00   provided you can make the big screen you [TS]

00:40:03   know quiet down not show you special [TS]

00:40:06   offers by the way if people don't know [TS]

00:40:07   what that's a reference to the Kindles [TS]

00:40:09   for many years perhaps they still do [TS]

00:40:11   this you get a Kindle cheaper if you're [TS]

00:40:13   willing to have ads displayed on it when [TS]

00:40:16   you're not using it and Amazon had a [TS]

00:40:18   euphemism for this they called it Kindle [TS]

00:40:20   with special offers that way of saying [TS]

00:40:22   buy this Kindle for less money and will [TS]

00:40:25   constantly show you ads and if you want [TS]

00:40:26   the as they go away give us a little bit [TS]

00:40:28   of more money and let me tell you that's [TS]

00:40:30   the best money you'll ever spend in your [TS]

00:40:31   life their book to show the special [TS]

00:40:34   offers yeah it was only it was only 25 [TS]

00:40:36   bucks it wasn't a massive amount of [TS]

00:40:38   money [TS]

00:40:38   yeah like get the one by all means get [TS]

00:40:40   the one with special offers and then [TS]

00:40:41   just say every quarter that you're fine [TS]

00:40:43   like in the laundry just keep saving [TS]

00:40:44   that until you get 25 bucks and then [TS]

00:40:46   spend it it's great yeah use your money [TS]

00:40:47   but anyway I'm still a believer in a big [TS]

00:40:52   screen thing that is stationary and [TS]

00:40:55   plugged in and has cameras and [TS]

00:40:57   microphones and good speakers in it but [TS]

00:40:59   apparently this is not yet it but I also [TS]

00:41:01   think that Marco didn't quite give this [TS]

00:41:02   a long enough chance to know exactly how [TS]

00:41:04   much he would hate her like because I [TS]

00:41:06   feel like if you had kept it for a [TS]

00:41:08   couple weeks you could probably come to [TS]

00:41:10   some uneasy truce with this super bright [TS]

00:41:13   screen and get it settled down and then [TS]

00:41:15   then you really know whether like it's [TS]

00:41:18   untenable and this needs to go or [TS]

00:41:19   whatever but it's probably easier for [TS]

00:41:22   all involved if you don't add more of [TS]

00:41:25   these devices to your house so maybe [TS]

00:41:26   just start buying cylinders and [TS]

00:41:28   stockpiling them now yeah it'll be Marco [TS]

00:41:31   with the cylinders Gruber with his [TS]

00:41:33   keyboards john steven hackett with [TS]

00:41:36   everything well see the thing with the [TS]

00:41:39   keyboards is you can probably keep [TS]

00:41:41   getting this to work but the cylinder is [TS]

00:41:43   like if Amazon gives up on the cylinders [TS]

00:41:47   the cylinder is useless without the yak [TS]

00:41:49   and services that feed it so numbers [TS]

00:41:51   have a bunch of useless and market you [TS]

00:41:53   would know to have they ever revised the [TS]

00:41:55   cylinder no that's that's not a good [TS]

00:41:57   sign they've already they revised the [TS]

00:41:59   dot already there's been two dots [TS]

00:42:01   and there's been the other ones that no [TS]

00:42:02   one buys that the the tap and oh god [TS]

00:42:06   what's the other one called [TS]

00:42:07   there's two other ones that nobody buys [TS]

00:42:08   but the tap and the spud and the da yeah [TS]

00:42:11   but but yeah like there's been two dots [TS]

00:42:12   but there's only ever been one [TS]

00:42:14   full-sized cylinder all right anything [TS]

00:42:17   else on the echo show hopefully not we [TS]

00:42:21   are sponsored this week by Harry is [TS]

00:42:23   giving you a great shave at a fair price [TS]

00:42:25   go to harrys.com slash ATP for more info [TS]

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00:42:34   great shave and they do this with these [TS]

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00:42:46   leading other razor out there that you [TS]

00:42:48   probably know of and have probably [TS]

00:42:49   bought if you ever need to shave and I [TS]

00:42:50   probably regretted how much you paid for [TS]

00:42:51   it Harry's blades are an incredible [TS]

00:42:53   value because they bought their own [TS]

00:42:55   factory it's a wonderful German factory [TS]

00:42:57   with over a hundred years of blade [TS]

00:42:59   making experience they give you high [TS]

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00:43:22   that includes a razor handle it includes [TS]

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00:43:43   trial set today harrys.com slash ATP [TS]

00:43:47   thank you very much to Harry's for [TS]

00:43:49   sponsoring our show [TS]

00:43:49   once again ok moving on we wanted to [TS]

00:43:56   talk a little bit about iOS drag and [TS]

00:43:58   drop and I have not really experienced [TS]

00:44:01   this yet I don't have a new iPad I [TS]

00:44:03   haven't put the beta on my iPad Mini but [TS]

00:44:06   there's there was a little bit of [TS]

00:44:08   discussion that I think all of us had [TS]

00:44:11   had overheard when we were in San Jose [TS]

00:44:14   for W [TS]

00:44:15   DC and it was a really fascinating [TS]

00:44:17   conversation that I'm gonna try my best [TS]

00:44:20   to summarize so dr. wave Michael Johnson [TS]

00:44:23   of Pixar had an interesting use case [TS]

00:44:26   that he didn't feel like the existing [TS]

00:44:30   drag-and-drop API would work with and [TS]

00:44:33   his specific examples slightly different [TS]

00:44:36   than this but I heard him talk about [TS]

00:44:38   this a couple of times with a couple of [TS]

00:44:40   people and I'm gonna use his example [TS]

00:44:44   that is not really for Pixar but just a [TS]

00:44:46   general example so let's say you had a [TS]

00:44:48   photograph that you were dragging from [TS]

00:44:51   say photos into pages vo the Apple word [TS]

00:44:54   processor app what what dr. wave was [TS]

00:44:58   saying was in general like say on a Mac [TS]

00:45:01   you would expect that as you're dragging [TS]

00:45:05   this photo over the text that's in pages [TS]

00:45:08   say you're dragging it into the middle [TS]

00:45:09   of like an essay or something you would [TS]

00:45:11   expect that the text would flow around [TS]

00:45:15   the image such that it's hugging the [TS]

00:45:19   borders of the sandwich presumably this [TS]

00:45:20   image is some sort of rectangle and you [TS]

00:45:23   know it's it's trying to hug the four [TS]

00:45:25   edges of that image as best as possible [TS]

00:45:27   so as you drag it up all the text moves [TS]

00:45:29   down as you drag it down all the text [TS]

00:45:30   moves up etc I'm trying my best to paint [TS]

00:45:33   a word picture here so what he was [TS]

00:45:35   saying was that's not really allowed the [TS]

00:45:40   way things work today and now I'm [TS]

00:45:43   talking a little outside my comfort zone [TS]

00:45:44   so feel free to interrupt me but [TS]

00:45:46   basically you're given a bare minimum of [TS]

00:45:49   I guess metadata about what's getting [TS]

00:45:52   dragged if any and it's not until the [TS]

00:45:56   user releases the drag and thus commits [TS]

00:46:00   yes this is the app I would like to [TS]

00:46:03   receive this thing I'm holding on to [TS]

00:46:05   that's the moment at which the the [TS]

00:46:08   destination app gets all kinds of [TS]

00:46:10   information including actual object [TS]

00:46:12   that's being dragged but the theory from [TS]

00:46:14   Apple was until you have released your [TS]

00:46:18   finger and you know taking it off the [TS]

00:46:20   screen and thus dropped what you have [TS]

00:46:22   quote-unquote in your hand what if you [TS]

00:46:25   drag across some other app that you [TS]

00:46:28   don't want to see [TS]

00:46:29   anything about that informations let's [TS]

00:46:30   say you have you know one of those [TS]

00:46:31   situations where you have three apps [TS]

00:46:33   open you're going from photos and you're [TS]

00:46:35   going across Twitter and because you're [TS]

00:46:38   a maniac you don't use Tweetbot you use [TS]

00:46:40   the official Twitter app don't at me [TS]

00:46:42   okay so you drag across Twitter app but [TS]

00:46:45   you don't want Twitter to see that [TS]

00:46:47   photograph and then you go into pages [TS]

00:46:49   and that's when we release so that's why [TS]

00:46:51   they don't want to give a not final [TS]

00:46:55   destination any sort of real information [TS]

00:46:57   about what's being dragged but that's a [TS]

00:47:00   real bummer for cases where you want to [TS]

00:47:01   do things like reflow text around an [TS]

00:47:04   image so it was a very very interesting [TS]

00:47:06   use case and I actually witnessed a [TS]

00:47:08   couple of conversations between dr. wave [TS]

00:47:10   and a couple of people including some [TS]

00:47:11   Apple employees one of which was [TS]

00:47:14   extremely fascinating about what are the [TS]

00:47:16   pros and cons of Apple's approach and [TS]

00:47:18   you know what what could or should they [TS]

00:47:21   do about it and there's a lot of gray [TS]

00:47:24   area here that I'm kind of fluffing over [TS]

00:47:26   as an example if they're - if the source [TS]

00:47:29   and destination apps are from the same [TS]

00:47:31   developer you know say comics are not [TS]

00:47:34   whatever then there's I believe more [TS]

00:47:37   information available to you than there [TS]

00:47:39   would be otherwise but I don't recall if [TS]

00:47:42   that's enough to get through this [TS]

00:47:43   particular problem or not but it was [TS]

00:47:45   just a really really fascinating news [TS]

00:47:46   case and I don't know if I should go so [TS]

00:47:49   first to say edge case but it's [TS]

00:47:51   certainly it's not one of those things [TS]

00:47:53   where I heard this was like wow this API [TS]

00:47:56   sucks it's actually wow they really [TS]

00:47:59   really thought about this API they made [TS]

00:48:01   a decision that may or may not have been [TS]

00:48:03   the best but I think that makes sense [TS]

00:48:06   and I understand why they did it so I [TS]

00:48:09   don't I have not experienced this myself [TS]

00:48:11   I've kind of summarized as best I can [TS]

00:48:14   mark oh you have a new iPad and you do [TS]

00:48:17   have the beta on it right so anything to [TS]

00:48:19   add on this I thought you're wrong but [TS]

00:48:22   now I'm questioning it I thought that [TS]

00:48:24   there was a whole thing in DC sessions [TS]

00:48:26   which I haven't I haven't finished [TS]

00:48:27   watching the dragon drop ones yet but [TS]

00:48:29   yeah I've seen them either yeah but I [TS]

00:48:31   thought that that they actually did [TS]

00:48:33   provide for photos they provided [TS]

00:48:35   dimensions and there was even some way [TS]

00:48:38   to to like to tell the drag agent [TS]

00:48:43   how to render a preview to see like show [TS]

00:48:45   a thumbnail of the image here like and [TS]

00:48:47   and didn't figure federighi talk about [TS]

00:48:48   that on the talk show like I for some [TS]

00:48:50   reason I think you might be wrong about [TS]

00:48:51   this entire this entire concept like I [TS]

00:48:54   think they're like you are right that [TS]

00:48:55   that they get that the apps don't [TS]

00:48:58   receive information I don't receive the [TS]

00:49:00   data that's being right unless it [TS]

00:49:02   dropped for security concern reasons but [TS]

00:49:04   I think there's this whole API in place [TS]

00:49:07   for like previewing that allows the like [TS]

00:49:10   the Windows Server to the the basically [TS]

00:49:13   the app can tell the server like well if [TS]

00:49:14   you happen to have an image let me know [TS]

00:49:16   its dimensions and render it you know at [TS]

00:49:19   this kind of alpha of level at this [TS]

00:49:21   scale here you know I think there [TS]

00:49:23   actually is waiting that you're both [TS]

00:49:29   right Marco you you ever calling this [TS]

00:49:31   and actually there's even more than that [TS]

00:49:33   there's other places where you can stash [TS]

00:49:34   a limited amount of actual data like an [TS]

00:49:36   8k buffer or something and a case he's [TS]

00:49:38   right about the not friend apps but like [TS]

00:49:40   app groups and stuff they're all those [TS]

00:49:42   things are true but the specific use [TS]

00:49:45   case and the case that Apple has [TS]

00:49:47   specifically protected against is [TS]

00:49:49   getting it the actual data that is [TS]

00:49:52   behind that dragged item they have all [TS]

00:49:53   these things surrounding it to give you [TS]

00:49:56   some way to let the destination know [TS]

00:49:59   stuff about your thing without getting [TS]

00:50:02   it the actual data and there's a couple [TS]

00:50:03   reasons that one is the thing the case [TS]

00:50:05   you talked about which is privacy and it [TS]

00:50:07   kind of makes sense in in in the in the [TS]

00:50:10   iOS ecosystem in the modern computing [TS]

00:50:12   ecosystem the idea of dragging an image [TS]

00:50:15   across the Facebook app and the Facebook [TS]

00:50:17   app extracting all the image data and [TS]

00:50:20   like analyzing it and uploading or [TS]

00:50:21   whatever like that sounds crazy you're [TS]

00:50:23   just paranoid no we've seen we've seen [TS]

00:50:26   we've seen worse from other applications [TS]

00:50:29   on iOS this is you know this is why [TS]

00:50:31   Apple did this if they can't give you [TS]

00:50:33   the data and so if they if they're not [TS]

00:50:35   gonna give you the data then all these [TS]

00:50:37   problems you're talking about well what [TS]

00:50:38   do I do for you know for a preview what [TS]

00:50:41   should it look like what I'm dragging it [TS]

00:50:42   can I give some metadata can I give some [TS]

00:50:44   limited amount of other data of my [TS]

00:50:47   choosing you know a couple kilobytes of [TS]

00:50:49   information and a lot of times that can [TS]

00:50:51   be enough for example if the thing that [TS]

00:50:53   you're dragging is representable by URL [TS]

00:50:55   for example and you [TS]

00:50:56   jam that URL into that you know 8 [TS]

00:50:58   kilobyte field then your destination [TS]

00:51:01   application it's like oh hi you're [TS]

00:51:04   dragging this thing but I can't get it [TS]

00:51:05   the real data it's like yeah but I my [TS]

00:51:07   date is just a URL and I'll put in a [TS]

00:51:08   little area and then you can read the [TS]

00:51:10   URL and then you can hit the URL and [TS]

00:51:11   pull down the data and get it but in [TS]

00:51:13   other cases when you're dragging [TS]

00:51:14   something very large like a large data [TS]

00:51:17   file or something like that [TS]

00:51:18   they don't want the application to get [TS]

00:51:20   at that actual data and all the preview [TS]

00:51:22   stuff you can do is never going to [TS]

00:51:23   represent the thing I don't want to get [TS]

00:51:25   into I know some more specific details [TS]

00:51:26   about the use cases the Pixar thing but [TS]

00:51:28   I don't want to talk about them but [TS]

00:51:29   there are situations where a preview is [TS]

00:51:32   not sufficient a thumbnail preview [TS]

00:51:34   dimensions all of which are not [TS]

00:51:36   sufficient you can imagine things that [TS]

00:51:38   Pixar does that may not be adequately [TS]

00:51:40   represented are nicely representable as [TS]

00:51:43   merely some dimensions in the thumbnail [TS]

00:51:46   right because picsArt of stuff in 3d so [TS]

00:51:48   just feel free to extrapolate from there [TS]

00:51:50   and that's that's a user experience [TS]

00:51:53   thing where you would just expect on the [TS]

00:51:56   Mac or on a PC type operating system [TS]

00:51:58   that the destination has access to the [TS]

00:52:01   full set of data and can do whatever it [TS]

00:52:03   wants with it and not just say give me a [TS]

00:52:06   little placeholder because sometimes a [TS]

00:52:08   placeholder especially if the [TS]

00:52:10   placeholder just a thumbnail or [TS]

00:52:11   something or a kilobits is not adequate [TS]

00:52:13   and so I think Apple made the right [TS]

00:52:15   decision for the environment because [TS]

00:52:17   especially since it's so hard to ensure [TS]

00:52:20   that you don't drag across something you [TS]

00:52:23   know that you like because everything is [TS]

00:52:26   you know it's a tiling window manager [TS]

00:52:28   essentially there is no dead zone [TS]

00:52:31   there's no demilitarized zone between [TS]

00:52:32   the quote-unquote windows all right so I [TS]

00:52:35   guess if you invoke the multitasking [TS]

00:52:38   switcher you've got you're sort of out [TS]

00:52:39   of dragging across things until you pull [TS]

00:52:41   it back but maybe when you pull it to [TS]

00:52:42   the front to maybe you know you're not [TS]

00:52:43   hovering over the right side of the pane [TS]

00:52:45   as it zooms and like it's it's difficult [TS]

00:52:47   not to accidentally hover over something [TS]

00:52:49   and I don't know if it's just iOS or [TS]

00:52:51   just modern computing in general but iOS [TS]

00:52:53   grew up in an environment where it is [TS]

00:52:55   not it is not overly paranoid to think [TS]

00:52:59   that applications will try to extract [TS]

00:53:02   any piece of information they can [TS]

00:53:04   because they can do stuff with it they [TS]

00:53:05   can upload to a server they can analyze [TS]

00:53:06   it they could figure out how to sell ads [TS]

00:53:08   against your thing they can [TS]

00:53:10   you know like that that is real stuff [TS]

00:53:12   that happens so I have to protect [TS]

00:53:14   against it and but after hearing these [TS]

00:53:17   specific use cases I think there is [TS]

00:53:19   there is a situation that Apple needs to [TS]

00:53:21   address and I think the best way to [TS]

00:53:22   address it is probably by you know the [TS]

00:53:25   same thing with the app group stuff of [TS]

00:53:26   like opening the floodgates between [TS]

00:53:29   applications that that know each other [TS]

00:53:31   right and I'm sure this use case beyond [TS]

00:53:34   that was like all right well what about [TS]

00:53:35   you know third-party company that wants [TS]

00:53:38   to sell an application into professional [TS]

00:53:39   environment and they're not the same [TS]

00:53:41   company they want to share things so [TS]

00:53:42   there needs to be some sort of secure [TS]

00:53:44   way for applications even across [TS]

00:53:47   companies to agree that it's okay that [TS]

00:53:49   we show that we share each other's full [TS]

00:53:51   data instead of doing a lot of this [TS]

00:53:53   stuff but I mean this this is what [TS]

00:53:55   software design is about that you know [TS]

00:53:57   you make the best decision for everybody [TS]

00:53:59   and then everybody who's who doesn't [TS]

00:54:02   fall into that you know that 80% the the [TS]

00:54:04   fat part of the bell curve sends you bug [TS]

00:54:06   reports and you try to find some way to [TS]

00:54:08   accommodate them so I don't know what [TS]

00:54:09   the outcome of this conversation is [TS]

00:54:10   other than I was fairly convinced that [TS]

00:54:12   this is a legit use case and I think [TS]

00:54:14   Apple was as well on it hopefully [TS]

00:54:15   they'll do stuff to address it but I [TS]

00:54:17   still think they made they made the [TS]

00:54:20   right decision for the majority of users [TS]

00:54:22   you know it's sort of safety first [TS]

00:54:25   security first privacy first approach [TS]

00:54:28   with many allowances to let you know [TS]

00:54:30   your average application do something [TS]

00:54:32   reasonable and then the more demanding [TS]

00:54:34   applications have to find another [TS]

00:54:35   solution [TS]

00:54:36   anything else on drag-and-drop so [TS]

00:54:38   there's a subsection here about dragging [TS]

00:54:41   on a drag and drop on the phone this was [TS]

00:54:43   all this is all older notes but it was [TS]

00:54:45   like right after the key knows like wait [TS]

00:54:47   does drag-and-drop work on the phone or [TS]

00:54:48   does it work in the bay there's it's [TS]

00:54:50   supposed to work or no there they're [TS]

00:54:51   gonna intentionally make it not work [TS]

00:54:53   because they don't want drag and drop [TS]

00:54:54   could be on the phone I don't have iOS [TS]

00:54:56   lovin on a phone so I don't know the [TS]

00:54:58   current status is this mark oh do you [TS]

00:54:59   have it yeah can you drag between [TS]

00:55:01   anything on the phone can you drag [TS]

00:55:03   between apps no you can drag within your [TS]

00:55:06   own app though I'm not entirely sure why [TS]

00:55:09   they impose this limitation like I can [TS]

00:55:11   see why somebody might have argued for [TS]

00:55:12   this but you know on the iPad you can [TS]

00:55:15   drag and drop within an app and also [TS]

00:55:18   between apps on the iPhone you can only [TS]

00:55:20   drag and drop within an app however [TS]

00:55:23   if you if the argument is the screen is [TS]

00:55:25   too small and so you can expect people [TS]

00:55:27   to like you know cram their fingers on [TS]

00:55:29   or whatever that doesn't work because [TS]

00:55:32   there's this awesome system that they [TS]

00:55:34   built where you can you can you know [TS]

00:55:37   pick up some items in a drag and then [TS]

00:55:38   with another finger from an you know [TS]

00:55:41   maybe from your other hand with another [TS]

00:55:42   finger you can navigate the interface to [TS]

00:55:45   a different screen and then drop the [TS]

00:55:48   drag items somewhere else like not just [TS]

00:55:50   within the same list or within the same [TS]

00:55:52   screen but you can actually like go to [TS]

00:55:53   like a different level in the navigation [TS]

00:55:55   hierarchy and drop them there or you can [TS]

00:55:57   drive them through the whole different [TS]

00:55:58   app entirely and that's great that's an [TS]

00:56:00   incredibly powerful system but if you're [TS]

00:56:03   gonna allow navigation within an app to [TS]

00:56:06   happen while you're in mid drag on the [TS]

00:56:08   phone why not also allow you to kick out [TS]

00:56:12   to a different app and along something [TS]

00:56:13   else you know so the only thing I can [TS]

00:56:15   think of is on the iPad you have the [TS]

00:56:17   screen space to have two apps side by [TS]

00:56:19   side or you know more than one app side [TS]

00:56:21   by side so you have that ability on on [TS]

00:56:23   the iPad and you don't have that in the [TS]

00:56:25   iPhone and that's that's fine I think [TS]

00:56:26   that makes sense given given the screen [TS]

00:56:28   sizes in the in the app environment but [TS]

00:56:30   I don't see why there's a limitation [TS]

00:56:32   that you that you can't do it between [TS]

00:56:35   apps by like holding down your dragged [TS]

00:56:38   items on the phone and then hitting the [TS]

00:56:39   home button and go into a different app [TS]

00:56:41   and opening up a different apps like you [TS]

00:56:42   already enabled it within the app so why [TS]

00:56:44   not that yes Steve drone Smith [TS]

00:56:47   responding some people offering them [TS]

00:56:50   maybe it's because you know that the [TS]

00:56:53   phone's not powerful enough where they [TS]

00:56:55   want to save as an upsell feature for [TS]

00:56:56   the next iPhone or whatever and from [TS]

00:56:59   what he heard WWC is they just wanted to [TS]

00:57:02   this to be an iPad only feature for now [TS]

00:57:04   maybe it will come to the phone [TS]

00:57:06   eventually a lot of by the way related [TS]

00:57:07   to this both on the phone not on the [TS]

00:57:09   iPad one of the things that kept coming [TS]

00:57:11   up during the keynote and afterwards is [TS]

00:57:14   the idea of a shelf which is a concept [TS]

00:57:16   that pretty sure existed in next step [TS]

00:57:18   but certainly they were there were like [TS]

00:57:20   copycat products on the Mac they [TS]

00:57:22   probably still are on the Mac these days [TS]

00:57:25   it's just I think even Quicksilver has [TS]

00:57:27   something like good it's a region of the [TS]

00:57:30   screen like a shelf like a little [TS]

00:57:31   rectangular area that comes out and it's [TS]

00:57:33   like hey put stuff here and when you put [TS]

00:57:36   things there does [TS]

00:57:36   actually move them to there that is [TS]

00:57:38   proxies like oh it's like if you start [TS]

00:57:40   dragging something just put it on the [TS]

00:57:42   shelf here and it's as if you continued [TS]

00:57:44   the drag but you don't have to you just [TS]

00:57:45   drop it on the shelf then you can go do [TS]

00:57:46   whatever it is you want to do go find [TS]

00:57:48   where you're gonna dress or we're going [TS]

00:57:50   drop that drag thing then you open up [TS]

00:57:52   the shelf again you're like all right [TS]

00:57:53   take the thing back off the shelf and [TS]

00:57:54   put it in so it's it's a multi-part drag [TS]

00:57:58   operation with like a rest stop in [TS]

00:57:59   between you could have multiple things [TS]

00:58:00   on the shelf so you could but it's [TS]

00:58:02   imagine it's like multiple clipboards [TS]

00:58:03   there's lots of things in the current [TS]

00:58:05   interface that are equivalent to that [TS]

00:58:07   the tricky bit in iOS and maybe the [TS]

00:58:09   reason that Bowl hasn't committed to [TS]

00:58:11   anything like a shelf yet is where do [TS]

00:58:12   you put the shelf how do you activate it [TS]

00:58:13   do you want to hog the whole screen edge [TS]

00:58:15   with it how do you get it to appear and [TS]

00:58:18   disappear do you feel like you're [TS]

00:58:19   burning are you burning parts of the [TS]

00:58:23   interface of this now you use entire [TS]

00:58:24   applications as a shelf you can make a [TS]

00:58:26   shelf application and dock it on the [TS]

00:58:28   right side of your thing and like this [TS]

00:58:29   there's lots of ways you can work around [TS]

00:58:31   this but all the demos in the keynotes [TS]

00:58:33   and a lot of the stuff that I've seen [TS]

00:58:34   online is people showing multi finger [TS]

00:58:37   drags with the thing I think I referred [TS]

00:58:39   to at the live show is that holding your [TS]

00:58:41   breath operation where you begin doing a [TS]

00:58:44   bunch of stuff and now you got stuff in [TS]

00:58:46   flight like fingers are on the screen [TS]

00:58:48   and maybe and basically you can't let go [TS]

00:58:50   like you you're dragging stuff and you [TS]

00:58:52   can't let go you haven't gotten to your [TS]

00:58:53   destination yet you're getting there [TS]

00:58:54   your other hand is navigating somehow [TS]

00:58:56   you're you're doing this with one hand [TS]

00:58:58   wrapped around your little phone or you [TS]

00:59:00   have two hands on the phone it's resting [TS]

00:59:01   it whatever those type of operations [TS]

00:59:05   that's kind of the same reason that you [TS]

00:59:08   guys don't remember this but that on the [TS]

00:59:10   Mac originally the menubar worked like [TS]

00:59:13   the thing at the top of screen you'd [TS]

00:59:15   have to hold down the mouse button so [TS]

00:59:17   you go up to the file menu you click and [TS]

00:59:19   hold down the mouse button and you have [TS]

00:59:21   to keep holding down the mouse button [TS]

00:59:22   until you mouse over the menu item you [TS]

00:59:25   wanted and you would release and that is [TS]

00:59:27   like the the smallest version of a [TS]

00:59:28   breath-holding maneuver because you did [TS]

00:59:31   mouse down and you've had to keep [TS]

00:59:34   holding it down while you looked around [TS]

00:59:35   the menus you'd go to the next menu go [TS]

00:59:37   down go into a submenu try to find the [TS]

00:59:39   thing you want but you're holding the [TS]

00:59:40   mouse button down this entire time which [TS]

00:59:42   is a more difficult operation especially [TS]

00:59:44   back [TS]

00:59:45   Mack wasn't even knowing knew how to use [TS]

00:59:46   a mouse it's a more difficult operation [TS]

00:59:48   than you might think like okay hold down [TS]

00:59:50   the mouse button but keep moving the [TS]

00:59:52   mouse you know what but I have to I have [TS]

00:59:54   to keep pressing the button so do I just [TS]

00:59:56   rest my finger on it and press it into [TS]

00:59:58   the table or do I push upward on them [TS]

00:59:58   the table or do I push upward on them [TS]

01:00:00   Allisyn things we take for granted now [TS]

01:00:01   that it sounds crazy I mean the [TS]

01:00:03   suggestiveness but believe me this was a [TS]

01:00:04   manoeuvre that was difficult for people [TS]

01:00:06   to do much more difficult for people to [TS]

01:00:08   do than the equivalent which is what [TS]

01:00:10   Windows did which is go to the file menu [TS]

01:00:12   and click Mouse down mouse up no you [TS]

01:00:14   know you'll have to hold anything down [TS]

01:00:16   anymore the file menu will fall down and [TS]

01:00:18   now you're free to navigate and the [TS]

01:00:20   flipside of that and the windows roll [TS]

01:00:22   okay well I did this click on the file [TS]

01:00:24   menu and I decided I don't want anything [TS]

01:00:27   in the phone on you but now the file [TS]

01:00:28   menu was stuck down like how do I get [TS]

01:00:30   rid of it I think you move your cursor [TS]

01:00:31   around the other menus come down and you [TS]

01:00:33   try to move your cursor off the end and [TS]

01:00:35   it's like I just want to get rid of [TS]

01:00:37   these menus how do I make them go away [TS]

01:00:38   you can drill on your Mac now click the [TS]

01:00:40   file menu and then just move your mouse [TS]

01:00:41   around it and pretend you're a novice [TS]

01:00:43   user it's like how the file menu is down [TS]

01:00:45   I don't want it to go and then you hit [TS]

01:00:47   the edit menu now the Edit menu is down [TS]

01:00:48   your shake you have to find a safe place [TS]

01:00:51   to click to deactivate it where is it [TS]

01:00:52   with the old Mac's table when you hold [TS]

01:00:55   down you just release the mouse button [TS]

01:00:57   anywhere that's not on the menu item and [TS]

01:00:59   you have canceled the operation [TS]

01:01:01   eventually Apple came around to the [TS]

01:01:03   Windows way of doing things because it's [TS]

01:01:05   a list of a breath-holding maneuver you [TS]

01:01:06   get to click and now you need to think [TS]

01:01:08   find the menu item scroll around or [TS]

01:01:10   whatever and eventually people learn the [TS]

01:01:12   safe areas to click to deactivate the [TS]

01:01:13   thing or whatever so on iOS all these [TS]

01:01:17   drag operations you're just holding your [TS]

01:01:18   breath that whole time until you can [TS]

01:01:20   find a place to put these and worse this [TS]

01:01:23   is my question after the Kuna and I [TS]

01:01:24   still kind of have this question even [TS]

01:01:25   though I do have I always love it on my [TS]

01:01:26   iPad now is how do you safely cancel a [TS]

01:01:30   complex drag operation you've got seven [TS]

01:01:32   things in flight you're swiping around [TS]

01:01:34   and you're like you change your mind [TS]

01:01:35   you're like no never mind if I was in [TS]

01:01:37   the Mac I would hit the Escape key which [TS]

01:01:38   nobody knows because uh people aren't [TS]

01:01:40   old-school Mac users and it would cancel [TS]

01:01:42   the drag off I didn't know that but on [TS]

01:01:46   in iOS I'm like what what do I do with [TS]

01:01:50   all scrappy I've got in my hand I'm [TS]

01:01:51   holding my breath I gotta get rid of [TS]

01:01:53   this like a hangar and I gotta get rid [TS]

01:01:54   of stuff safely I don't want to [TS]

01:01:55   accidentally drag all this stuff into it [TS]

01:01:58   so like you go off the screen edge maybe [TS]

01:01:59   I mean there's a million places we know [TS]

01:02:02   is you probably go to springboard it's [TS]

01:02:03   probably safe you that's you're dragging [TS]

01:02:05   applications in which case maybe you'll [TS]

01:02:06   move them to there you can go to a thing [TS]

01:02:08   they have different cursors of like [TS]

01:02:11   canvas drag potentially [TS]

01:02:13   happen in this location at all one of [TS]

01:02:15   them is like the forbidden cursor which [TS]

01:02:16   they tell you're not supposed to use but [TS]

01:02:17   at least tells you like look you can't [TS]

01:02:19   drag this here ever it's never gonna [TS]

01:02:20   work don't bother like oh now it's safe [TS]

01:02:22   to drop I can drop it there like they [TS]

01:02:25   don't show demos like that but having [TS]

01:02:28   having a safe way to change your mind [TS]

01:02:31   mid-flight and also having a way to to [TS]

01:02:36   think about what you're doing [TS]

01:02:38   mid-flight without the pressure without [TS]

01:02:39   the literal pressure of having to hold [TS]

01:02:41   your fingers down on the screen or the [TS]

01:02:43   mental pressure of knowing that you have [TS]

01:02:45   this thing in flight those are problems [TS]

01:02:47   that can potentially be solved by a [TS]

01:02:49   shelf because then you have a two-part [TS]

01:02:51   maneuver I'm gonna do something with [TS]

01:02:52   this thing and this other thing chuck [TS]

01:02:54   them on the shelf and now I'm free I'm [TS]

01:02:57   not holding my breath animo I'm not [TS]

01:02:58   holding my fingers on the screen I'm [TS]

01:02:59   free to figure out what I'm gonna do [TS]

01:03:00   with that stuff if I decide I'm not [TS]

01:03:02   gonna do anything with it it's over like [TS]

01:03:04   I can just leave it on the shelf it or I [TS]

01:03:05   could delete it from the shelf or it has [TS]

01:03:07   led to each other stuff or whatever but [TS]

01:03:09   eventually do find the thing I want to [TS]

01:03:10   do I can bring the Shelf back onto the [TS]

01:03:11   screen take the thing off the shelf put [TS]

01:03:13   it where I was going to put it so I [TS]

01:03:15   think there's room for that type of [TS]

01:03:17   interface element in iOS and I think a [TS]

01:03:20   lot of these multi-finger drag things [TS]

01:03:22   are cool to look at an impressive but [TS]

01:03:26   are way above the the physical mental [TS]

01:03:31   dexterity of most people most of the [TS]

01:03:34   time and even people who can pull them [TS]

01:03:36   off I think they are they're less [TS]

01:03:38   comfortable than a more relaxed multi [TS]

01:03:42   part operation the same way that holding [TS]

01:03:44   down the mouse cursor on a menu is less [TS]

01:03:46   comfortable for people on the original [TS]

01:03:49   Mac and why we're all used to just [TS]

01:03:50   single clicking if you want to get a [TS]

01:03:52   feeling of this by the way just fire up [TS]

01:03:53   an old Mac emulator everybody even [TS]

01:03:55   old-school Mac users like me you fire up [TS]

01:03:57   one of those old Mac emulators and you [TS]

01:03:58   go to go to go to menu and you click on [TS]

01:04:00   it and then you briefly flickers on the [TS]

01:04:02   screen and you go oh yeah yeah I [TS]

01:04:04   remember this or if you're not an [TS]

01:04:06   old-school Mac user like this thing is [TS]

01:04:07   broken and just quit so there was an app [TS]

01:04:10   there was an app that I loved that is [TS]

01:04:13   not being made anymore and I think there [TS]

01:04:15   was like an API change or they got [TS]

01:04:17   booted from Mac App Store I don't [TS]

01:04:18   remember what it was it was called drag [TS]

01:04:20   and drop that's dragon is in the animal [TS]

01:04:22   dry [TS]

01:04:23   and it was a play obviously on the [TS]

01:04:25   phrase drag and drop yeah yeah funny huh [TS]

01:04:30   anyway but it did was on the Mac if you [TS]

01:04:34   start a drag and then wiggle your mouse [TS]

01:04:37   the same way you wiggle your mouse to [TS]

01:04:39   get the huge cursor in cearĂ¡ what it [TS]

01:04:42   would do is it would pop up I'm sure [TS]

01:04:44   there's a term for this kind of pain but [TS]

01:04:46   whatever the term is it would bring up [TS]

01:04:49   one of those like I don't know how to [TS]

01:04:52   describe it but it's like a little [TS]

01:04:53   temporary window basically and you could [TS]

01:04:55   drag or you could drop I should say [TS]

01:04:58   whatever you have in your in your drag [TS]

01:05:01   onto this drag and drop pane and it [TS]

01:05:04   would stay there then you couldn't you [TS]

01:05:06   know mouse around and do whatever you [TS]

01:05:08   needed maybe get to a different path on [TS]

01:05:10   your on your desktop you know or you [TS]

01:05:12   know and your harddrive whatever and [TS]

01:05:13   then you could go back to drag and drop [TS]

01:05:15   and drag out of that so it was basically [TS]

01:05:17   a shelf like you were saying and dragged [TS]

01:05:19   out of that and onto finder or what have [TS]

01:05:21   you and it was amazing and it made the [TS]

01:05:23   computer so much better and easier to [TS]

01:05:25   use and maybe there's another equivalent [TS]

01:05:28   of that and if there is that actually [TS]

01:05:29   kind of like to know it but unlike 20 of [TS]

01:05:31   those apps for the Mac the drag and [TS]

01:05:33   drops innovation was the Wiggly cursor I [TS]

01:05:34   think that was the first app that did [TS]

01:05:35   that one [TS]

01:05:36   most of them use screen edges like I [TS]

01:05:37   said Quicksilver has one I'm sure yes [TS]

01:05:39   cursor yeah oh you want the wheely [TS]

01:05:42   cursor out of them here's a copy copy [TS]

01:05:44   drag and drop but yeah I'm trying to [TS]

01:05:46   think if the next shelf was the original [TS]

01:05:48   one of these that I'm mostly coming from [TS]

01:05:49   Mac world and even in classic Mac OS [TS]

01:05:52   there was a ton of these things some of [TS]

01:05:53   them are really good sorry I I love this [TS]

01:05:56   thing and I also did know you could have [TS]

01:05:58   some hit escape to cancel drag by the [TS]

01:06:00   way and I you lived this long not [TS]

01:06:03   knowing this part what are you doing yet [TS]

01:06:04   to cancel a drag I never cancel a drag [TS]

01:06:06   never cancel I've committed to this drag [TS]

01:06:08   I'm seeing it's pretty good to the end I [TS]

01:06:10   gotta find someplace to drop this thing [TS]

01:06:12   damn it I know I'm doing Oh sick burn [TS]

01:06:15   yeah let's go to the Mac you can only [TS]

01:06:18   grab well you know I grabbed either one [TS]

01:06:21   thing at once or multiple things all at [TS]

01:06:23   once it is more difficult than most Mac [TS]

01:06:25   programs do not allow you to do this to [TS]

01:06:27   add to your drag well as an iOS that's [TS]

01:06:29   all the demos look like I've gone into [TS]

01:06:30   another app and you know what I'm gonna [TS]

01:06:31   add more crap to this drag add add add [TS]

01:06:33   I'm running out of fingers but it's okay [TS]

01:06:36   you keep going oh one more thing on this [TS]

01:06:39   since we got to have an AP FS section [TS]

01:06:41   every shown out as my legal agreement [TS]

01:06:44   with Apple another one of the things you [TS]

01:06:49   know I keep brings up like why do I care [TS]

01:06:51   about a BFS then snapshots everything [TS]

01:06:53   last time dragging a large thing but [TS]

01:06:58   there'd be a photo or a giant audio file [TS]

01:07:00   or a video file or you know a 3d model [TS]

01:07:02   or whatever from some iOS application to [TS]

01:07:06   another one when you drop it and you've [TS]

01:07:09   committed to have all the data appear [TS]

01:07:11   over there sandboxing is still a thing [TS]

01:07:13   in iOS and despite app groups and all [TS]

01:07:15   the things with the data sharing or [TS]

01:07:17   whatever especially if it's across [TS]

01:07:18   applications from different vendors it [TS]

01:07:21   has to get you all that data if this is [TS]

01:07:23   a three gigabyte video file it can't [TS]

01:07:26   just say oh you can just read that three [TS]

01:07:28   gigabyte video file out of that other [TS]

01:07:30   application sandbox because you can't [TS]

01:07:31   that's the whole point of sandbox you [TS]

01:07:32   can't get to that other application [TS]

01:07:33   stuff but you also don't want to wait [TS]

01:07:35   and like throw up a progress bar of like [TS]

01:07:37   now copying three gigabytes of data from [TS]

01:07:39   application eight application B which is [TS]

01:07:41   what would happen on the Mac if you drag [TS]

01:07:44   this huge thing someplace you know that [TS]

01:07:45   in the Mac progress bars are everywhere [TS]

01:07:47   you know everyone gets a progress bar [TS]

01:07:49   it's it's part of thematic experience [TS]

01:07:51   progress bars are less a part of the iOS [TS]

01:07:53   experience massively less a part of the [TS]

01:07:55   iOS experience the best forget our [TS]

01:07:56   stupid little spinners in the App door [TS]

01:07:58   store that never actually terminated but [TS]

01:08:00   anyway those are circular those aren't [TS]

01:08:02   progress bars those are progress of [TS]

01:08:03   rings so the solution to this [TS]

01:08:07   good old API FS to the rescue because [TS]

01:08:10   drag and drop is only available in iOS [TS]

01:08:13   11 and in the way that we're talking [TS]

01:08:15   about and because iOS 11 comes with a [TS]

01:08:17   PFS for everybody when you drag that [TS]

01:08:21   three gigabyte video file from one [TS]

01:08:22   application to another you get an [TS]

01:08:24   instant clone of it in the other [TS]

01:08:26   application sandbox it doesn't actually [TS]

01:08:28   actually copy any data it doesn't matter [TS]

01:08:29   how big it is that clone takes the exact [TS]

01:08:32   same amount of time doesn't take it any [TS]

01:08:33   more space on disk it's copying right so [TS]

01:08:36   if that application starts modifying it [TS]

01:08:37   it will start to become unshared I'm not [TS]

01:08:40   gonna say the a BFS makes drag-and-drop [TS]

01:08:42   possible but it almost makes Drive [TS]

01:08:44   because if you didn't think of what you [TS]

01:08:45   would have to do like what where would [TS]

01:08:47   the progress bar everything appear what [TS]

01:08:48   it would be [TS]

01:08:48   at modal would it be like a progress bar [TS]

01:08:51   just underneath a little thumbnail icon [TS]

01:08:53   of the thing is it slowly copy 300 bytes [TS]

01:08:55   it would be terrible ap FS is saving the [TS]

01:08:57   universe once again Oh John although I [TS]

01:09:04   kind of think it's enabling like it's [TS]

01:09:06   enabling them not to think about Sam [TS]

01:09:07   boxing like Sam boxing but then how we [TS]

01:09:09   can have drag and drop between [TS]

01:09:10   applications oh don't worry you don't [TS]

01:09:11   have to rethink your sandboxing model [TS]

01:09:13   notice me him instant clone I kind of [TS]

01:09:15   wish they had to rethink their [TS]

01:09:16   sandboxing model or have come up with [TS]

01:09:18   some other sharing sirens they were [TS]

01:09:20   saying it's alright everyone will have [TS]

01:09:21   their own copy of this data in their own [TS]

01:09:23   sandbox and we can make as many clones [TS]

01:09:24   we want instantly so it's no problem [TS]

01:09:26   right and I still think it actually is a [TS]

01:09:28   problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

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01:10:40   betterment comm slash ATP betterment [TS]

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01:10:45   [Music] [TS]

01:10:48   John tell me about dilled 3 it's not one [TS]

01:10:53   of those sneaky things that Apple does [TS]

01:10:55   every once in a while that maybe it's [TS]

01:10:57   not sneaky maybe because people don't [TS]

01:10:58   care about it used to write about them [TS]

01:11:01   on my OS 10 reviews the canonical [TS]

01:11:04   example is launch D where or actually [TS]

01:11:07   more recently we've had discovery D lots [TS]

01:11:09   of things at nd so does the wild e where [TS]

01:11:14   their core parts of the mac brings us [TS]

01:11:17   some sometimes the core parts of the [TS]

01:11:18   underlying base operating system darwin [TS]

01:11:21   is underneath you know iOS and mac OS [TS]

01:11:23   you never hear that name anymore these [TS]

01:11:25   days and apple will decide they need to [TS]

01:11:29   rewrite it and that can be exciting but [TS]

01:11:33   also scary discovery d last time that [TS]

01:11:36   happened was a little bit scary because [TS]

01:11:38   they what was the thing that was replace [TS]

01:11:40   can't forget mdns responders yeah and so [TS]

01:11:43   that was a problem because like [TS]

01:11:46   endianness Runner was a mess and had [TS]

01:11:48   tons of bugs but the thing they replaced [TS]

01:11:51   it had more bugs and was even a bigger [TS]

01:11:54   mess and so they wrote back that change [TS]

01:11:57   but things like launch d where they [TS]

01:11:59   replace the the process that spawns off [TS]

01:12:03   all the other processes and duns it [TS]

01:12:04   doesn't million other things rewrite [TS]

01:12:07   that from scratch and replace the old [TS]

01:12:08   init process that worked out pretty well [TS]

01:12:12   did we ever find out whether it was bono [TS]

01:12:15   that rescued us from rescuing us from [TS]

01:12:18   discovery d remember they're like like [TS]

01:12:20   with that well there was some celebrity [TS]

01:12:23   complained of Tim Cook I think it was [TS]

01:12:24   like I know like you know doesn't know [TS]

01:12:28   how to use computers there was it was [TS]

01:12:30   some big celebrity and like imagine like [TS]

01:12:31   you know of all the like the world peace [TS]

01:12:33   things that Bono has done but like also [TS]

01:12:35   rescuing us from Discovery D that would [TS]

01:12:38   that would rank pretty high up on that [TS]

01:12:39   list John Mayer I'm trying to think [TS]

01:12:41   maybe yeah it was something it was some [TS]

01:12:43   celebrity that that allegedly complained [TS]

01:12:46   to Tim Cook about this thing and got it [TS]

01:12:48   faced like the next week [TS]

01:12:50   well fixes in rolling rolling it back to [TS]

01:12:53   whatever it was it was fixed yeah oh for [TS]

01:12:58   some people so [TS]

01:13:02   in the upcoming operating systems in [TS]

01:13:05   high sierra and iOS 11 Apple's core OS [TS]

01:13:09   group I'm assuming or some other people [TS]

01:13:11   who work down in the guts of stuff have [TS]

01:13:12   decided there's another part that needs [TS]

01:13:15   to be replaced and that's the dynamic [TS]

01:13:16   linker which is a thing you probably [TS]

01:13:19   don't know about if you're not a [TS]

01:13:20   programmer but it's the thing that [TS]

01:13:23   figures out where all the other code [TS]

01:13:26   that you're going to be calling into is [TS]

01:13:27   and so you can call it from your [TS]

01:13:29   application you can PI your applications [TS]

01:13:31   that how to call this method in this [TS]

01:13:33   framework here in this function in this [TS]

01:13:34   library there and when you launch your [TS]

01:13:37   application the operating system needs [TS]

01:13:39   to connect all those dots because you [TS]

01:13:42   know maybe that library has changed and [TS]

01:13:44   these libraries aren't part of your [TS]

01:13:46   application they're somewhere else in [TS]

01:13:47   the system directory and the address of [TS]

01:13:50   all the functions in them might be [TS]

01:13:52   different from when you compile your [TS]

01:13:53   application so this is dynamic linking [TS]

01:13:55   it's not static linking where at the [TS]

01:13:57   time they can build your application it [TS]

01:13:58   knows where everything is and writes all [TS]

01:14:00   that information it's dynamic linking it [TS]

01:14:01   says I'm gonna call this function in [TS]

01:14:03   this framework and you're gonna tell me [TS]

01:14:05   where it is because it's gonna move [TS]

01:14:07   around and there's also address based [TS]

01:14:08   randomization a bunch of other stuff for [TS]

01:14:10   security reasons which means is that [TS]

01:14:11   dynamic linking really has to figure out [TS]

01:14:13   where everything is the title of the [TS]

01:14:16   relevant WWDC session is app startup [TS]

01:14:20   time : past present and future which [TS]

01:14:23   seems like it's very innocuous like oh [TS]

01:14:25   I'm gonna learn how to make my app [TS]

01:14:27   startup faster but surprise session 4:13 [TS]

01:14:30   we will put the link in the show notes [TS]

01:14:31   this session is really about how Apple [TS]

01:14:33   is rewriting it in that dynamic linker [TS]

01:14:35   again for the third time and as you [TS]

01:14:38   might imagine the dynamic linker is a [TS]

01:14:40   really really really important part of [TS]

01:14:42   the system because if it's broken [TS]

01:14:43   like nothing works because everything is [TS]

01:14:47   dynamic linked to everything and it's [TS]

01:14:50   super important it's kind of like when [TS]

01:14:52   they change the compiler but worse [TS]

01:14:54   because they compiler like they left the [TS]

01:14:56   old compiler around and the new dynamic [TS]

01:14:58   linker is gonna be used to link like [TS]

01:15:00   everything in the operating system [TS]

01:15:03   itself and probably eventually all your [TS]

01:15:05   third-party applications so here's the [TS]

01:15:08   the skinny on this the old version dy [TS]

01:15:11   ld2 will be completely replaced but [TS]

01:15:15   nudee way ld3 and it's not me have you [TS]

01:15:17   heard this one before hopefully this [TS]

01:15:18   will go well and not gonna be a repeat [TS]

01:15:21   of this get ready situation it will be [TS]

01:15:24   the default for all system apps and this [TS]

01:15:27   is their phrasing for 2017 Apple OS [TS]

01:15:30   platforms so I guess that means the [TS]

01:15:33   watch the home pod the Apple TV the Mac [TS]

01:15:36   and all iOS devices for system apps [TS]

01:15:39   which means Apple's own applications or [TS]

01:15:41   mean I guess third party applications [TS]

01:15:42   will keep still be using dld 2.0 anyway [TS]

01:15:46   the reason this session is called app [TS]

01:15:49   start time past present future is [TS]

01:15:50   because what they're pitching developers [TS]

01:15:52   on is this will let your application [TS]

01:15:54   launch faster and there's been a lot of [TS]

01:15:56   WABC sessions about that and you might [TS]

01:15:58   think this is like oh great my app is [TS]

01:15:59   slow and startup this D way ld3 will [TS]

01:16:02   make my app lunch faster well maybe but [TS]

01:16:06   probably not because as the session says [TS]

01:16:09   in the beginning to try to you know [TS]

01:16:11   level set what they're talking about [TS]

01:16:13   making startup time faster is everything [TS]

01:16:17   that happens before they call main [TS]

01:16:18   you're like well wait a second my code [TS]

01:16:21   doesn't even start until they call main [TS]

01:16:23   but you know if your application is slow [TS]

01:16:25   on startup because you're doing a bunch [TS]

01:16:27   of stuff in your code this will not help [TS]

01:16:29   you because this all the time they're [TS]

01:16:31   trying to remove is before main is [TS]

01:16:33   called right you're like oh well nothing [TS]

01:16:35   happens before you call main right it's [TS]

01:16:37   not like the first thing that happens [TS]

01:16:38   and from a dynamic language super second [TS]

01:16:40   it's like no no no you think your [TS]

01:16:42   program starts at main really we have to [TS]

01:16:44   do a bunch of crap to find all your [TS]

01:16:45   stuff before we can even call main and [TS]

01:16:47   so this team is like we are everything [TS]

01:16:49   that happens before developers think [TS]

01:16:51   there is zero time before main is called [TS]

01:16:53   but that is not true at all and so [TS]

01:16:55   they're working in a much smaller level [TS]

01:16:56   obviously in most non-trivial [TS]

01:16:58   applications I would imagine the time [TS]

01:17:01   required and you know after main is [TS]

01:17:03   called and before like your application [TS]

01:17:05   are usable Dwarfs all this time but for [TS]

01:17:08   very small simple applications or system [TS]

01:17:10   demons or stuff like that maybe not [TS]

01:17:12   sorry I'm not gonna repeat everything [TS]

01:17:15   that's in the presentation but the [TS]

01:17:16   summary is that they are taking a [TS]

01:17:19   dynamic linker and moving it out into a [TS]

01:17:22   daemon process which might be terrifying [TS]

01:17:25   to people like wait how can how can a [TS]

01:17:27   clinker be a daemon process [TS]

01:17:28   and as I don't like demon processes and [TS]

01:17:30   D well the RTA ends in D which is [TS]

01:17:32   convenient for them it's a call to dy LD [TS]

01:17:34   d I don't know they tried to it's simple [TS]

01:17:39   caching mechanism there's a bunch of [TS]

01:17:40   stuff that has to happen before you call [TS]

01:17:42   me and of like figuring out where all [TS]

01:17:44   your stuff is and the addresses of [TS]

01:17:46   everything and finding all the [TS]

01:17:47   dependencies and stuff like that and [TS]

01:17:49   doing symbol lookups that doesn't change [TS]

01:17:52   unless the library has change and so [TS]

01:17:54   they're gonna do all that in an external [TS]

01:17:56   process and catch the results of it if [TS]

01:17:58   someone subsequent launches they don't [TS]

01:18:01   have to redo that they could say oh I've [TS]

01:18:02   launched you before I know where all [TS]

01:18:04   your crap is and so we can skip right to [TS]

01:18:06   the part where we start doing stuff and [TS]

01:18:09   executing and having it in a separate [TS]

01:18:10   process even though it sounds terrifying [TS]

01:18:12   like from a security perspective like oh [TS]

01:18:13   that if you can hack that process you [TS]

01:18:15   own the system it's actually better than [TS]

01:18:17   having in the process because if you're [TS]

01:18:20   gonna try to mess with dynamic linker a [TS]

01:18:21   dynamic linker is running in the same [TS]

01:18:23   process as you if you can corrupt that [TS]

01:18:26   process you have access to all the stuff [TS]

01:18:28   that I'm Ankur is doing because you were [TS]

01:18:30   in the same process whereas if it's in [TS]

01:18:31   an external process and a program is [TS]

01:18:33   corrupted it's gonna have a harder time [TS]

01:18:35   leaping across the barrier to a whole [TS]

01:18:38   separate process that it hasn't yet [TS]

01:18:39   corrupted I don't know we'll see how [TS]

01:18:41   this works out security wise I can see [TS]

01:18:43   the argument for it that it is harder to [TS]

01:18:45   hack with things in a separate process [TS]

01:18:46   than in your own process but on the [TS]

01:18:48   other hand this is now a very attractive [TS]

01:18:51   target for all sorts of hack so I'm sure [TS]

01:18:53   they're doing a good job with it and [TS]

01:18:54   they made a pitch from a development [TS]

01:18:56   perspective of like developing this as a [TS]

01:18:59   separate process makes it easier for [TS]

01:19:02   them to test like it's not a bunch of [TS]

01:19:03   code running inside a bunch of other [TS]

01:19:06   people's applications right inside other [TS]

01:19:08   people's memory spaces or who knows what [TS]

01:19:09   the heck is going on it is a separate [TS]

01:19:11   process and it's in its own memory space [TS]

01:19:13   that other processes aren't messing with [TS]

01:19:15   because of memory protection and that [TS]

01:19:16   makes it more reproducible and reliable [TS]

01:19:18   everything like that so I think this is [TS]

01:19:21   a fascinating presentation one most [TS]

01:19:23   people probably haven't watched session [TS]

01:19:24   439 encourage everyone to watch [TS]

01:19:26   everybody see videos are free for [TS]

01:19:27   everybody you don't have to have [TS]

01:19:28   developer account you can just click on [TS]

01:19:30   the link in our show notes and watch it [TS]

01:19:31   right away I think this stuff is super [TS]

01:19:33   cool I love it when Apple replaces the [TS]

01:19:35   guts of operating systems I hope they [TS]

01:19:37   don't screw it up because this is super [TS]

01:19:39   important and terrifying but I really [TS]

01:19:41   like that they're doing [TS]

01:19:43   yeah one of my favorite sessions this [TS]

01:19:46   year so there are a few people in my [TS]

01:19:48   life who are not programmers but listen [TS]

01:19:52   to this show anyway and there are a [TS]

01:19:53   number of people who write in and and [TS]

01:19:55   comments that effect sometimes they are [TS]

01:19:57   gonna love this chapter of the show I [TS]

01:19:59   didn't go to that much detail but let's [TS]

01:20:04   put it this way here for regular people [TS]

01:20:06   like again with a PFS like why do I care [TS]

01:20:07   this happening in theory things could [TS]

01:20:11   launch faster on your Apple platforms in [TS]

01:20:16   theory will that be perceptible to you I [TS]

01:20:17   don't know maybe maybe not but anyway [TS]

01:20:21   the other and the potential downside is [TS]

01:20:23   everything is broking and nothing works [TS]

01:20:25   so if that doesn't happen consider it a [TS]

01:20:28   victory so you got a little bonus [TS]

01:20:31   surprised at WDC Marco you also got a [TS]

01:20:35   little bonus surprised at WWDC did you [TS]

01:20:37   not I did last summer as I was writing [TS]

01:20:42   my mp3 encoder I ran into an issue you [TS]

01:20:47   know mp3 has had for a very very long [TS]

01:20:49   time has had the option to have VBR or [TS]

01:20:52   variable bitrate files the idea being [TS]

01:20:55   that you know if different different [TS]

01:20:57   parts of a file of like an audio track [TS]

01:20:59   could have different complexity levels [TS]

01:21:01   you know in a podcast all of the gaps [TS]

01:21:04   that are between all the words that [TS]

01:21:05   we're speaking that you don't need that [TS]

01:21:07   many bits to encode what's mostly [TS]

01:21:09   silence to a level that most people [TS]

01:21:10   would not even notice right and then you [TS]

01:21:14   can use more bits to encode complex [TS]

01:21:17   passages like music and a variable [TS]

01:21:20   bitrate file allows the encoder to just [TS]

01:21:22   decide like you know for this for these [TS]

01:21:24   few milliseconds I'm gonna use this [TS]

01:21:25   bitrate and then for the next few [TS]

01:21:26   milliseconds I'm gonna use a different [TS]

01:21:27   bitrate and and so on and it's a much [TS]

01:21:30   more efficient way to encode audio and [TS]

01:21:34   the problem is that the mp3 format does [TS]

01:21:38   not have great ways at least it did not [TS]

01:21:41   start out having great ways to know [TS]

01:21:43   ahead of time before you've read the [TS]

01:21:46   entire file if you want to say jump to [TS]

01:21:49   an hour and 10 seconds in what byte [TS]

01:21:53   position is that if it's a constant [TS]

01:21:55   bitrate file you can [TS]

01:21:56   calculate well each second is this many [TS]

01:21:58   bytes so therefore jump to you know [TS]

01:22:00   offset times bytes per second and that's [TS]

01:22:03   where you go if it's a VBR file you [TS]

01:22:06   can't guarantee that because you don't [TS]

01:22:07   know what the average bitrate is across [TS]

01:22:09   the whole file and so in order to jump [TS]

01:22:11   to a precise point you have to have some [TS]

01:22:12   kind of lookup table or something to say [TS]

01:22:15   you know for every second or for every [TS]

01:22:17   half second or for every tenth of a [TS]

01:22:19   second this is it's a byte position and [TS]

01:22:21   maybe put that at the beginning of the [TS]

01:22:23   file in the mid the metadata section or [TS]

01:22:25   something and then you can jump to it [TS]

01:22:26   and there were a few standards on how to [TS]

01:22:28   do this but Apple supported none of them [TS]

01:22:30   so if you would load a very long file [TS]

01:22:35   like a podcast in something that was [TS]

01:22:37   using an apple decoder which is every [TS]

01:22:40   podcast player on iOS or Safari or at [TS]

01:22:43   you know any pretty much anywhere on app [TS]

01:22:45   on Apple platforms that could play an [TS]

01:22:47   mp3 would have this problem you would [TS]

01:22:50   jump ahead like if you were trying to [TS]

01:22:52   seek and within that file you jump ahead [TS]

01:22:54   and you would actually not be at the [TS]

01:22:55   right point because it was it was not [TS]

01:22:58   having any kind of intelligence about [TS]

01:22:59   VBR filed and how to seek within them so [TS]

01:23:02   it would just try to estimate based on [TS]

01:23:03   file size and it would say well you know [TS]

01:23:06   you you this file is you know 100 [TS]

01:23:08   megabytes and it's I can read from the [TS]

01:23:11   duration header upfront that it's two [TS]

01:23:12   hours long and you told me to jump to [TS]

01:23:14   one hour so I'm gonna jump to the 50 [TS]

01:23:17   megabyte mark and just assume that's [TS]

01:23:18   correct and that could be off by like [TS]

01:23:21   two minutes or more like that that could [TS]

01:23:22   be off by a lot depending on the content [TS]

01:23:24   on the content of the file like how the [TS]

01:23:26   variable bitrate stuff was allocated [TS]

01:23:27   between different parts of it and so [TS]

01:23:30   that's sucked so it basically meant that [TS]

01:23:31   it was it was impractical for podcasts [TS]

01:23:35   or a lot of any kind of long-form audio [TS]

01:23:38   content to really ever use VBR encoding [TS]

01:23:41   and I filed a bug report it's the best [TS]

01:23:44   like a Dorota blog post to draw [TS]

01:23:46   attention to it and heard nothing for a [TS]

01:23:49   very long time well for a year and then [TS]

01:23:52   in iOS 11 and in High Sierra that's [TS]

01:23:56   fixed iOS 11 and High Sierra now [TS]

01:24:00   properly seek VBR mp3s that have the [TS]

01:24:05   seek tables at the beginning of them [TS]

01:24:07   there are three different formats of [TS]

01:24:09   those that I know that exist [TS]

01:24:10   they support all three of them they [TS]

01:24:12   prioritize is the highest part the [TS]

01:24:14   highest precision one first which is the [TS]

01:24:16   ML LTE id3 tag they prioritize that [TS]

01:24:19   first forecast my encoder now writes [TS]

01:24:22   those tags so now we will soon you know [TS]

01:24:27   there's always gonna be issues the VBR [TS]

01:24:29   files on like random like car head units [TS]

01:24:32   and stuff and you know like things that [TS]

01:24:33   aren't you know advanced computer [TS]

01:24:35   platforms but it will soon become more [TS]

01:24:40   reasonable like you know once iOS 11 and [TS]

01:24:42   High Sierra are widespread it will [TS]

01:24:45   become more reasonable for podcasters to [TS]

01:24:47   potentially use VBR encoding on their [TS]

01:24:50   mp3s and what this means for you the [TS]

01:24:52   listeners is better sound quality for [TS]

01:24:55   things like dropped in music like if we [TS]

01:24:57   drop in a clip for music or if we play a [TS]

01:24:59   theme song whatever like you will hear [TS]

01:25:01   better quality on that and also you can [TS]

01:25:04   maintain the same level of quality for [TS]

01:25:06   the whole file for just basic speech [TS]

01:25:07   like what we're doing now and have it [TS]

01:25:09   take up like 25 to 50 percent less space [TS]

01:25:13   and therefore also download faster use [TS]

01:25:15   less battery while downloading you know [TS]

01:25:17   less space burn on your phone etc so [TS]

01:25:20   it's a pretty nice gain it's like a 25 [TS]

01:25:22   to 50 percent gain depending on the [TS]

01:25:23   content it's a pretty nice gain and you [TS]

01:25:26   can get better quality for dropped in [TS]

01:25:28   clips and stuff all because now Apple [TS]

01:25:32   will seek this properly now again like [TS]

01:25:35   there are gonna be non Apple platforms [TS]

01:25:37   is gonna be ways in which like you know [TS]

01:25:39   Android listeners for instance are kind [TS]

01:25:41   of a problem for this so you know [TS]

01:25:43   podcasters like us will have to decide [TS]

01:25:45   like what percentage of our audience is [TS]

01:25:47   on platforms that don't support proper [TS]

01:25:49   VBR seeking and are we willing to let [TS]

01:25:51   them live with miscalculated durations [TS]

01:25:54   or miscalculated seek points as they [TS]

01:25:57   seek throughout the file and so you know [TS]

01:25:59   that that's gonna be a trade-off for you [TS]

01:26:01   know any podcaster trim so I what format [TS]

01:26:03   to encode their audio in but having it [TS]

01:26:06   in the Apple platforms is by far the the [TS]

01:26:10   biggest gain like it is like that's the [TS]

01:26:13   big one we needed like overcast already [TS]

01:26:15   supports it because I use Apple's [TS]

01:26:17   decoder so like overcast already [TS]

01:26:19   supports all this stuff iOS 11 and high [TS]

01:26:21   sierra well I don't have a Mac App sorry [TS]

01:26:22   Casey but if I'm able it [TS]

01:26:24   support the High Sierra and and every [TS]

01:26:26   other app that uses Apple's decoders [TS]

01:26:28   which is as far as I know all of them I [TS]

01:26:30   don't think any pond guys have some [TS]

01:26:31   funnel they're on mp3 decoders so you [TS]

01:26:34   know it's it [TS]

01:26:35   this basically makes all I oh s apps [TS]

01:26:38   suddenly support this without any [TS]

01:26:40   changes whatsoever so that's really [TS]

01:26:42   great I'm incredibly happy about this it [TS]

01:26:45   might be a while you know it might be [TS]

01:26:46   another year or two before we should [TS]

01:26:48   practically use that but this is the [TS]

01:26:51   start of that like this is this is the [TS]

01:26:52   first step and that's really great [TS]

01:26:54   spoiler alert [TS]

01:26:56   audience Marco will make a VBR episode [TS]

01:26:58   of A to B way before you think he's [TS]

01:26:59   going to oh yeah definitely he's dying [TS]

01:27:03   to do it the episode you're listening to [TS]

01:27:04   right now might be VBR that's what I'm [TS]

01:27:06   saying I wouldn't do during the the beta [TS]

01:27:10   if I was sure he would you wouldn't tell [TS]

01:27:13   anybody either I'll just be like you [TS]

01:27:14   know what that last episode that was VBR [TS]

01:27:16   you didn't even know it yeah notice how [TS]

01:27:18   good the theme song sounded want to add [TS]

01:27:21   more music clips like yeah explicably [TS]

01:27:24   lots and lots of symbols and syncopated [TS]

01:27:27   rhythms that trip up depression [TS]

01:27:30   algorithms the funny thing is to Apple [TS]

01:27:33   also added in very few places but they [TS]

01:27:36   did add rudimentary support for the Opus [TS]

01:27:39   audio codec also which is very [TS]

01:27:41   interesting the open audio codec is kind [TS]

01:27:43   of the successor to OGG Vorbis it's by [TS]

01:27:46   the same people and it's it's this you [TS]

01:27:48   know it's open source and as far as [TS]

01:27:50   anybody knows patent free other that's [TS]

01:27:52   you know that's that's always open to [TS]

01:27:54   like whether it's really been challenged [TS]

01:27:55   or not but it's a very good codec very [TS]

01:27:58   advanced very modern it have in a very [TS]

01:28:00   small number of places iOS 11 and high [TS]

01:28:03   sierra support that now so if there [TS]

01:28:06   might be a future in which mp3 might not [TS]

01:28:09   be the most practical solution anymore [TS]

01:28:10   it might become you know if everywhere [TS]

01:28:13   support start supporting opus you know [TS]

01:28:15   this is step one towards that [TS]

01:28:16   possibility that's probably not gonna [TS]

01:28:18   happen in reality you just you know it's [TS]

01:28:20   probably always gonna be more practical [TS]

01:28:21   to just ship mp3s because everything [TS]

01:28:24   supports them but you know maybe in the [TS]

01:28:26   future I get together with some other [TS]

01:28:28   podcast app makers and we figure out [TS]

01:28:30   like how to advertise multiple formats [TS]

01:28:33   of the same show and if you're using a [TS]

01:28:35   compatible client that maybe maybe it [TS]

01:28:37   sends a [TS]

01:28:38   etter that said that that lets it say to [TS]

01:28:40   the downloading server you know what you [TS]

01:28:41   can send me opus if you have it and [TS]

01:28:43   maybe you know maybe publishers then can [TS]

01:28:45   publish files that are automatically [TS]

01:28:47   transferred to multiple formats or [TS]

01:28:49   something you know if this would take a [TS]

01:28:50   lot of a lot on the tooling side to make [TS]

01:28:52   this to make anybody actually do this [TS]

01:28:53   but this is this is the the start of [TS]

01:28:58   making better quality podcasts that take [TS]

01:29:01   up less space and I love that I remember [TS]

01:29:04   having to make multiple video tags [TS]

01:29:06   because with the whole was that a VC 1 [TS]

01:29:09   or vp9 I forget the web of me would ya [TS]

01:29:13   WebM and all that other stuff because [TS]

01:29:14   they wouldn't do h.264 and so all my [TS]

01:29:17   always 10 reviews I had to have multiple [TS]

01:29:20   versions of every video so all devices [TS]

01:29:22   could see them but but anyway that's [TS]

01:29:24   from a current production perspective [TS]

01:29:26   it's annoying but it is nice to be able [TS]

01:29:28   to do a cascade and say here's seven [TS]

01:29:30   versions of this thing and just you know [TS]

01:29:32   browsers and between the browser and the [TS]

01:29:35   server you figure out which one you want [TS]

01:29:36   but I rank them like what kind of like [TS]

01:29:38   Apple did with the algorithms for the [TS]

01:29:40   VBR thing rank them and or from best to [TS]

01:29:42   worst then you just go down the scale [TS]

01:29:43   until you find the one that you can read [TS]

01:29:45   thanks much for three sponsors this week [TS]

01:29:47   betterment fracture and Harry's we will [TS]

01:29:49   see you next week now the show is over [TS]

01:29:55   they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

01:29:59   accidental accidental [TS]

01:30:06   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it [TS]

01:30:09   was accidentally was accidental and you [TS]

01:30:15   can find the show notes at ADP CAS UIL [TS]

01:30:27   is esta that's Casey list and a are Co [TS]

01:30:31   AR m and T Marco Arment [TS]

01:30:35   are [TS]

01:30:37   [Music] [TS]

01:30:53   so I was not entirely clear about why I [TS]

01:30:57   had experience with a 20-17 laptop [TS]

01:30:59   keyboard earlier Oh God [TS]

01:31:02   I I lied I said I used it in a store I [TS]

01:31:04   didn't use it in a store I use it in my [TS]

01:31:06   house and yeah so so here's here's the [TS]

01:31:11   situation [TS]

01:31:11   oh and a week's vacation I know come on [TS]

01:31:20   I'm trying to I'm trying to do the [TS]

01:31:21   nineties references for you guys your [TS]

01:31:23   generation [TS]

01:31:24   so you know how I'm the chief summarizer [TS]

01:31:26   in chief Marco is the chief justifier in [TS]

01:31:29   chief yes what did you buy and how did [TS]

01:31:32   you justify it my MacBook escaped as I [TS]

01:31:36   mentioned it you know I need to send it [TS]

01:31:39   and get the keyboard repairs that [TS]

01:31:40   started me thinking like alright when's [TS]

01:31:42   a good him to do this and everything [TS]

01:31:42   else I'm going away for a week we also [TS]

01:31:46   will be at the beach for a month later [TS]

01:31:49   this summer I have sent a I have placed [TS]

01:31:53   an LG 5k display at the at the beach [TS]

01:31:56   house so I can work for a month because [TS]

01:31:58   you know the summer time I record I work [TS]

01:32:00   a lot in the summer because as an iOS [TS]

01:32:02   developer you do make your upgrades [TS]

01:32:04   using the new beta OS and new [TS]

01:32:06   capabilities and everything and of [TS]

01:32:08   course I'm still gonna be recording with [TS]

01:32:09   you guys gonna be podcasting awhile [TS]

01:32:11   there it's gonna be you know a work [TS]

01:32:13   month for the most part is it but I work [TS]

01:32:15   a lot during the summer would be a great [TS]

01:32:17   title for this episode so my plan was to [TS]

01:32:24   bring the MacBook Escape and connect it [TS]

01:32:28   to the LG 5k and work on that all summer [TS]

01:32:31   long wait on your on your LG 5k before [TS]

01:32:34   you go on yeah do you did you get it [TS]

01:32:36   replaced with the one that doesn't like [TS]

01:32:38   this draw it doesn't flicker off when [TS]

01:32:39   Wi-Fi is nearby cuz then they like fix [TS]

01:32:42   that yeah as far as I know cuz I bought [TS]

01:32:43   it on the very last day of the discount [TS]

01:32:45   mm-hmm because we were we were starting [TS]

01:32:47   to plan our summer and we were thinking [TS]

01:32:49   we would probably you know do a whole [TS]

01:32:50   month out there and so and I was like [TS]

01:32:53   you know I should have some big monitor [TS]

01:32:55   to plug into and on the very last day [TS]

01:32:57   that discount before I even had the [TS]

01:32:59   MacBook Escape I decided you know what [TS]

01:33:01   I'm probably gonna do this you know and [TS]

01:33:03   this was this was after they had like [TS]

01:33:06   selling them to fix the problem so as [TS]

01:33:08   far as I know mine design have the [TS]

01:33:09   problem all right [TS]

01:33:10   all right so anyway so this was my plan [TS]

01:33:14   bring the escape up there and and just [TS]

01:33:16   you know work of it work on that all [TS]

01:33:18   summer long and I knew it would be [TS]

01:33:19   slower than my iMac but fine you know [TS]

01:33:23   it's it's still you know it's a [TS]

01:33:26   compromised situation but you know I [TS]

01:33:28   would deal with it because I love the [TS]

01:33:29   escape in so many other ways then the [TS]

01:33:32   escape keyboards are having problems [TS]

01:33:33   then I went on to WTC and hated having [TS]

01:33:38   only two USB ports as we discussed last [TS]

01:33:40   episode like that that got in the way [TS]

01:33:42   a lot and even now the keyboard is fixed [TS]

01:33:47   on the new ones probably that is still [TS]

01:33:49   the one thing that I can say I didn't [TS]

01:33:51   like about the MacBook Escape overall in [TS]

01:33:53   my use of it so far I really don't like [TS]

01:33:56   having only those two ports which if [TS]

01:33:57   you're powered is really only one port [TS]

01:33:59   but that was that's not a big enough [TS]

01:34:01   problem to make me dump it but I had [TS]

01:34:03   this other problem now my iMac keeps [TS]

01:34:06   having problems and these are problems [TS]

01:34:08   that I don't think we're gonna get [TS]

01:34:09   easily fixed my iMac is not only does it [TS]

01:34:13   have the image retention that it's that [TS]

01:34:16   I complained about months ago and and [TS]

01:34:18   that's still getting worse and worse and [TS]

01:34:19   worse [TS]

01:34:20   I'm also getting what appear to be i/o [TS]

01:34:22   stalls on a pretty regular basis my [TS]

01:34:25   performance is actually getting [TS]

01:34:26   noticeably worse I'm having weird pauses [TS]

01:34:28   logic is giving me that wonderful disk [TS]

01:34:30   disk too slow or system overload [TS]

01:34:32   dialogue if you see a resume that I love [TS]

01:34:34   it so much I've never seen that dialog [TS]

01:34:36   before two months ago and I'm having [TS]

01:34:39   problems with my iMac is what I'm saying [TS]

01:34:41   now I really want either an iMac pro or [TS]

01:34:45   probably a Mac Pro my plan has always [TS]

01:34:49   been you know let me ride this iMac out [TS]

01:34:51   the AppleCare on my iMac is up in a few [TS]

01:34:55   months in October I think we know [TS]

01:34:56   whenever or whatever three years after [TS]

01:34:57   the 5k came out is which I think it's [TS]

01:34:59   October [TS]

01:35:00   let me just last till then and then I [TS]

01:35:02   can like sell it and get the mi Pro you [TS]

01:35:07   should make a run at to getting the [TS]

01:35:08   screen takes like before your thing runs [TS]

01:35:10   out just bring it in just be like look I [TS]

01:35:12   have stalls on the screen has image [TS]

01:35:13   trends and blah blah blah do something [TS]

01:35:14   and who knows I'm going to but the thing [TS]

01:35:17   is there's never a good time to do that [TS]

01:35:18   like they [TS]

01:35:20   there's never really or the beach for a [TS]

01:35:22   month but but you can't like you can't [TS]

01:35:24   have Apple send it back to you and have [TS]

01:35:26   it sit in a store for a month I think I [TS]

01:35:28   think that would be a problem you know [TS]

01:35:29   so like that or likes it like on my [TS]

01:35:31   porch for a month so basically I'm [TS]

01:35:36   having problems it with my iMac but this [TS]

01:35:39   is a terrible time for me to want to [TS]

01:35:41   replace my desktop because I want to [TS]

01:35:44   wait even if the iMac Pro ends up being [TS]

01:35:47   for me what I should really do is wait [TS]

01:35:50   for the Mac Pro to come out before I [TS]

01:35:53   decide that just so I can see what the [TS]

01:35:55   Mac Pro is and I can weigh those [TS]

01:35:57   decisions equally and and whatever [TS]

01:35:59   they're Pro display is etc I already [TS]

01:36:02   have this LG display so my new plan is [TS]

01:36:06   let me use a laptop full time with the [TS]

01:36:10   LG display after vacation month this [TS]

01:36:13   summer I'll bring the display home I [TS]

01:36:15   will use it on my desk full time I will [TS]

01:36:19   send in my iMac to get serviced the new [TS]

01:36:21   laptop plus display will become my iMac [TS]

01:36:24   you know effect it'll become like my [TS]

01:36:26   desktop my main computer and that can [TS]

01:36:29   bridge me over until the Mac Pro comes [TS]

01:36:32   out presumably like probably about a [TS]

01:36:33   year from now and then I can buy a new [TS]

01:36:36   desktop with all the options available [TS]

01:36:38   to me and decide then T de passe in the [TS]

01:36:40   chat room has a good suggestion for you [TS]

01:36:43   it sounds like what you need is a Mac [TS]

01:36:45   subscription service and Apple just [TS]

01:36:49   sends you every computer it makes just [TS]

01:36:51   all with all of them whenever they have [TS]

01:36:53   a new computer you they just send them [TS]

01:36:55   to you and you just you just keep paying [TS]

01:36:56   the subscription and the ones you don't [TS]

01:36:58   like you return and it's like blue apron [TS]

01:37:00   if you want to cancel a Mac you don't [TS]

01:37:01   want the back to have to come this month [TS]

01:37:02   that's fine and if you don't like one of [TS]

01:37:05   the Macs you have you just send it back [TS]

01:37:06   to them they send you a different one [TS]

01:37:07   that they actually have leasing for [TS]

01:37:09   business customers and I am a business [TS]

01:37:11   customer at my local store so they [TS]

01:37:13   actually started offering me the leasing [TS]

01:37:14   option which is not that different from [TS]

01:37:16   that the only reason I didn't take it [TS]

01:37:17   was that it's not that great of a deal [TS]

01:37:19   like it's like it's it's it's a two-year [TS]

01:37:21   it's you know two or three years fixed [TS]

01:37:24   of course you know because of the lease [TS]

01:37:25   and it's like a fixed time scale and I [TS]

01:37:27   don't love having my computer purchases [TS]

01:37:30   be tied to a fixed time scale like I [TS]

01:37:31   care less of a car [TS]

01:37:33   that's like a big deal to change and you [TS]

01:37:35   know when new minor revisions come out I [TS]

01:37:36   don't really care but like to have to [TS]

01:37:39   tie a laptop to a two-year schedule that [TS]

01:37:42   that that can't be slower or faster than [TS]

01:37:44   that that I don't like that much and [TS]

01:37:46   also the way it was priced is you get a [TS]

01:37:49   pretty nice discount for doing the least [TS]

01:37:51   like if you add up all the payments you [TS]

01:37:53   end up paying something like 20% less [TS]

01:37:56   than the retail price but then at the [TS]

01:37:59   end you have nothing on that like you're [TS]

01:38:01   not paying it off at the end you can buy [TS]

01:38:05   it out for fair market value at the time [TS]

01:38:07   but you're basically paying 80% of the [TS]

01:38:10   retail price over two years to at the [TS]

01:38:13   end have nothing whereas if you just buy [TS]

01:38:15   it and then sell it later [TS]

01:38:17   you might only lose twenty to fifty [TS]

01:38:20   percent instead of 80% and you can sell [TS]

01:38:22   whenever you want to so you got these [TS]

01:38:24   these sticky keys and you had your image [TS]

01:38:26   retention yeah your IO stalls we're [TS]

01:38:28   having a lot of problems the computer [TS]

01:38:30   reliability if you're interested in a [TS]

01:38:32   couple years I may have a very reliable [TS]

01:38:34   computer market if you're interested [TS]

01:38:38   this this is a proven track record I can [TS]

01:38:41   give you all the repair history totally [TS]

01:38:43   solid [TS]

01:38:44   everything works you know one owner only [TS]

01:38:47   drove it to church on Sundays it's great [TS]

01:38:50   I've never been in an accident but it's [TS]

01:38:54   been full of browser tabs the whole time [TS]

01:39:00   yeah so basically I did have a chance to [TS]

01:39:04   use the LG display we went we went to [TS]

01:39:07   the to the beach couple of weeks ago or [TS]

01:39:09   days ago whenever it was and and I tried [TS]

01:39:12   to do some stuff on it with the MacBook [TS]

01:39:14   Escape and the GPU and the Escape is [TS]

01:39:17   really not great at fairly basic [TS]

01:39:20   operations on a 5k display and in all [TS]

01:39:23   fairness that's not what it's made to do [TS]

01:39:25   that like that's a hefty GPU load to put [TS]

01:39:28   on an intel integrated GPU there's a [TS]

01:39:30   reason why like Apple does not really [TS]

01:39:33   advertise much with like the 13-inch [TS]

01:39:35   class of laptops on the big 5k display [TS]

01:39:38   they always show with a 15-inch because [TS]

01:39:40   the 15-inch has a discrete GPU which is [TS]

01:39:42   way more powerful than the Intel one and [TS]

01:39:44   when you plug your 15-inch into just [TS]

01:39:45   into a display [TS]

01:39:46   the discrete GPU locks itself on like it [TS]

01:39:50   always uses that it forces it on if it's [TS]

01:39:52   ever kind to an external display because [TS]

01:39:54   it knows like you kind of need that so [TS]

01:39:57   the MacBook escape while awesome for [TS]

01:40:01   everything I needed before now with this [TS]

01:40:04   summer need that I need to have a nice [TS]

01:40:06   big monitor and do big development in [TS]

01:40:07   the open sometime I now have a need that [TS]

01:40:10   it does not cover very well it really is [TS]

01:40:12   quite poor at it actually like even if [TS]

01:40:14   things like resizing windows is like a [TS]

01:40:16   sluggish like that's because it isn't [TS]

01:40:19   made to be doing that I decided now that [TS]

01:40:22   my needs now that my iMac has caused me [TS]

01:40:26   to have different needs and I now need a [TS]

01:40:27   desktop replacement to last me a year [TS]

01:40:29   until the Mac Pro comes out presumably I [TS]

01:40:31   need something powerful so I got a 15 [TS]

01:40:35   inch again [TS]

01:40:36   I got a 20-17 almost maxed out 15 inch [TS]

01:40:40   and I see how this goes I mean I'm sure [TS]

01:40:42   I'm still the return period business [TS]

01:40:45   represent I can return however I want [TS]

01:40:47   this yeah he's a big pile in his office [TS]

01:40:51   it just says Marco well technically I [TS]

01:41:00   feel like this is oh I have a 15 inch [TS]

01:41:02   again but you don't you have the 2017 [TS]

01:41:05   keyboard that will make all the [TS]

01:41:06   difference I'm sure honestly it does [TS]

01:41:08   feel dramatically better but I don't [TS]

01:41:10   know yet how reliable it is like I I got [TS]

01:41:14   fairly accustomed to the MacBook Escape [TS]

01:41:16   keyboard like I didn't you know I still [TS]

01:41:17   don't love the butterfly keys but I got [TS]

01:41:20   used to it enough that I could operate [TS]

01:41:22   but I can't operate when the keys fail [TS]

01:41:26   so that's I hope they have fixed that [TS]

01:41:29   I'll tell you because how know there's [TS]

01:41:33   not a lot of grit in the beach house so [TS]

01:41:34   you'll be fine [TS]

01:41:38   nice I mean I don't use it in the sand [TS]

01:41:41   but yeah there's a you know what they [TS]

01:41:44   say about sand [TS]

01:41:46   what neither one kind of correction you [TS]

01:41:50   two don't know if that's fine there's [TS]

01:41:55   one time I'm glad you didn't get a [TS]

01:41:56   reference mmm anyway so yes I know this [TS]

01:42:02   is totally ridiculous yes I know this is [TS]

01:42:04   completely wasteful but you know my [TS]

01:42:08   requirements changed well it's not [TS]

01:42:10   wasteful I thought you're throwing these [TS]

01:42:11   computers in the garbage like you're [TS]

01:42:13   turning or selling them so other people [TS]

01:42:14   are getting use of them yeah and and and [TS]

01:42:17   you know when they're this new like the [TS]

01:42:18   resale is not too bad it's a shame [TS]

01:42:20   because I really do love everything else [TS]

01:42:22   about the escape and and in the future [TS]

01:42:24   you know once once my desktop situation [TS]

01:42:27   settles back down again once I get a Mac [TS]

01:42:29   Pro probably or an iMac Pro next year it [TS]

01:42:33   wouldn't surprise me if whatever laptop [TS]

01:42:34   I buy next after that I might then go [TS]

01:42:37   back to the escape form factor because I [TS]

01:42:39   really do like it as a travel laptop but [TS]

01:42:42   it is not what I want for a like desktop [TS]

01:42:45   replacement you know I want more power [TS]

01:42:47   for that you're gonna get an adorable [TS]

01:42:48   you're gonna get a two-port adorable [TS]

01:42:50   you'll see if that exists maybe but I [TS]

01:42:53   really do like the escape over the [TS]

01:42:55   adorable honestly it the adorable I find [TS]

01:42:57   a little bit too small to comfortably [TS]

01:43:00   use in my lap like the way it sits on my [TS]

01:43:03   legs like I need a little bit more width [TS]

01:43:04   and and the 13 inch line offers that so [TS]

01:43:08   I'm a big fan of a 13 inch size overall [TS]

01:43:10   I think it really is I think for for [TS]

01:43:12   almost everybody the 13-inch is the [TS]

01:43:15   right choice it is really great and it [TS]

01:43:18   is a wonderful balance I will say though [TS]

01:43:20   another I've used the escape for you [TS]

01:43:22   know three months or whatever whatever [TS]

01:43:23   it's been the 15 days looks like an [TS]

01:43:25   aircraft carrier by comparison so big [TS]

01:43:30   now I mean Casey from even worse for you [TS]

01:43:32   right because you're like bouncing [TS]

01:43:34   between the the adorable and the old 50 [TS]

01:43:36   nation well right so I've got the [TS]

01:43:38   adorable that I used from Wednesday [TS]

01:43:42   through Sunday when I was in Chicago [TS]

01:43:43   then I came home to the 27-inch iMac and [TS]

01:43:46   then I needed to do something specific [TS]

01:43:48   for work so I got out the 15 and the [TS]

01:43:50   iMac is a little different because it's [TS]

01:43:52   kind of an it's like an external display [TS]

01:43:53   I so to speak and that it's it's it just [TS]

01:43:57   occupies a different part of my brain [TS]

01:43:58   you know it's like oh that's a [TS]

01:44:00   a desktop but holy smokes when I grab [TS]

01:44:04   that 15-inch looked enormous an aircraft [TS]

01:44:08   carriers a perfect description and I li [TS]

01:44:10   remember having handled 17-inch [TS]

01:44:11   computers back when they were yeah those [TS]

01:44:13   were I kind I kind of want to just use [TS]

01:44:16   the adorable for a while and then have [TS]

01:44:17   somebody hand me a 17-inch and I I would [TS]

01:44:21   I can't imagine what it was what it [TS]

01:44:23   would be like because the 15 just looked [TS]

01:44:26   obscenely large and I'd had 15s four [TS]

01:44:29   years before the adorable probably six [TS]

01:44:32   or so years by now and godly it just [TS]

01:44:36   looked massive I've got a Mac portable [TS]

01:44:38   if you're interested how do you feel [TS]

01:44:42   about a 16 pound portable Macintosh with [TS]

01:44:45   a lead-acid battery somehow I think [TS]

01:44:48   that's gonna have trouble driving the 5k [TS]

01:44:49   display active-matrix [TS]

01:44:52   LCD display that's the thing I can't [TS]

01:44:54   communicate to you youngsters adequately [TS]

01:44:57   like the the idea that back in the day [TS]

01:45:00   every Mac had something amazing about [TS]

01:45:02   even this giant disgusting portable [TS]

01:45:05   computer and an active-matrix LCD [TS]

01:45:07   display and all of the like that typical [TS]

01:45:11   PC laptops had passive-matrix screens [TS]

01:45:14   and I don't know if you remember what [TS]

01:45:15   those were like awful you know [TS]

01:45:17   ghosting like you'd you would move the [TS]

01:45:19   cursor remove a windows and you would [TS]

01:45:20   see like 17 ghost images of the things [TS]

01:45:23   was terrible active-matrix [TS]

01:45:24   yeah yeah transistor behind every pixel [TS]

01:45:27   and you can move your cursor and the [TS]

01:45:28   cursor would actually move and it was [TS]

01:45:30   like it was like a portable a flat [TS]

01:45:31   screen can't do that because everyone [TS]

01:45:33   knows what a flat screen looks like it [TS]

01:45:35   says ghosty mess [TS]

01:45:36   and yes it was monochrome I think yeah I [TS]

01:45:39   think the first backwards my room but [TS]

01:45:41   active-matrix it was like well first [TS]

01:45:42   it's like it was it was the promotion of [TS]

01:45:44   its day it was the 120 Hertz of its day [TS]

01:45:46   it's like well once you see active [TS]

01:45:48   matrix you can't go back my dad had a [TS]

01:45:50   had a think pad and I don't remember the [TS]

01:45:53   model number but it was black and white [TS]

01:45:55   or well I should say it's grayscale it [TS]

01:45:56   was grayscale and and I remember running [TS]

01:46:00   Wolfenstein 3d on it and it was [TS]

01:46:02   unplayable because of all the ghosting [TS]

01:46:04   it was ridiculous however I believe at [TS]

01:46:06   dads house right now is an IBM PC [TS]

01:46:09   convertible in John you don't know [TS]

01:46:11   anything about these because you didn't [TS]

01:46:12   believe in pcs so let me tell [TS]

01:46:14   about old hardware John the PC [TS]

01:46:18   convertible came out in the early 90s [TS]

01:46:19   and it had two low-density [TS]

01:46:22   three-and-a-half inch drives as a matter [TS]

01:46:25   of fact according to Wikipedia it was [TS]

01:46:26   the first IBM computer to use the three [TS]

01:46:28   and a half inch floppy disk format which [TS]

01:46:29   went on to become the industry standard [TS]

01:46:30   you're welcome John anyway it was a [TS]

01:46:34   complete piece of garbage anyway it [TS]

01:46:35   wasn't IBM that made it the industry [TS]

01:46:36   standard it was Apple mm-hmm [TS]

01:46:39   it weighed 13 pounds according to [TS]

01:46:40   Wikipedia and it was an amazing machine [TS]

01:46:43   and I loved it and it's a total piece of [TS]

01:46:45   garbage if I'm really honest with you [TS]

01:46:47   but it's worse than the Mac portable [TS]

01:46:48   we're just saying something yeah [TS]

01:46:50   so the if you look at the image in Wow [TS]

01:46:52   and you close so imagine you close the [TS]

01:46:56   lid if you look at the very front of the [TS]

01:46:59   keyboard you see how there's like a grey [TS]

01:47:00   bar going across the front and the side [TS]

01:47:03   of the it's a handle you know that's [TS]

01:47:11   being okay so yeah the thing would slide [TS]

01:47:15   out is you grabbed it and you can carry [TS]

01:47:16   this 13 I mean granted I am NOT the [TS]

01:47:19   strongest man in the world but I I [TS]

01:47:20   actually saw this thing than the last [TS]

01:47:22   year dad's and and I picked it up I'm [TS]

01:47:24   just like oh god this thing is heavy [TS]

01:47:26   like it is uncomfortably heavy at [TS]

01:47:28   apparently 13 pounds which for those of [TS]

01:47:30   you who believe in units that make sense [TS]

01:47:32   that's almost 6 kilograms lighter than [TS]

01:47:35   the the Mac portable by almost an entire [TS]

01:47:39   15 inch like the the current 15 inch is [TS]

01:47:47   very light it's only 4 pounds but it's [TS]

01:47:50   about the weight of the previous 13-inch [TS]

01:47:52   models of the of the old retina [TS]

01:47:53   generation and and so it really is very [TS]

01:47:57   light it's just large it has a big [TS]

01:48:00   footprint so it feels like you're waving [TS]

01:48:02   around a lunch tray you know but you [TS]

01:48:05   know I do like a lot of that like if if [TS]

01:48:07   you're if you want a really powerful [TS]

01:48:09   laptop that's a great one to have and [TS]

01:48:12   that's far the best one to have and it [TS]

01:48:15   really you know all my complaints about [TS]

01:48:17   battery life aside and I haven't had [TS]

01:48:19   time to test this one really yet I [TS]

01:48:20   haven't really used my battery yet it's [TS]

01:48:22   only a few days old but the form factor [TS]

01:48:24   of this current 15-inch is really [TS]

01:48:26   remarkable because [TS]

01:48:28   if you put it in a bag you know it's [TS]

01:48:29   like you it's like all the previous 13s [TS]

01:48:32   like it you it doesn't feel any heavier [TS]

01:48:34   than that but you have the power and [TS]

01:48:36   massive screen size relatively of the [TS]

01:48:39   15-inch so it's a great computer and it [TS]

01:48:43   wasn't for me before but my requirements [TS]

01:48:46   changed dramatically so and that's [TS]

01:48:48   that's why I have it now ok save [TS]

01:48:51   something that you're a convertible PC [TS]

01:48:53   can't do and didn't do which is it Auto [TS]

01:48:57   eject a floppy disk in space in space in [TS]

01:49:01   space like it no gravity you mean well [TS]

01:49:04   this gravity but you're falling on the [TS]

01:49:06   earth [TS]

01:49:06   it's called orbit anyway if you brought [TS]

01:49:10   to a geostationary orbit satellite can [TS]

01:49:13   you reject yeah Auto inject and eject [TS]

01:49:16   drives on the max we're we're great but [TS]

01:49:18   this is a the word for that [TS]

01:49:21   auto-injectors is the feature yet [TS]

01:49:23   another feature that made apple [TS]

01:49:24   computers superior to pcs for I love you [TS]

01:49:28   John but but you being smug about old [TS]

01:49:31   have Apple hardware auto auto inject and [TS]

01:49:35   eject will never die will never get old [TS]

01:49:37   it they will live forever did though [TS]

01:49:40   they will live forever no cuz the floppy [TS]

01:49:42   disk so just went away I mean on the [TS]

01:49:44   other hand like you know you look at [TS]

01:49:46   this IBM monstrosity like you think you [TS]

01:49:48   know what's better than a laptop with a [TS]

01:49:50   floppy drive a laptop with two floppy [TS]

01:49:53   drives well there was no our tribe what [TS]

01:49:56   are you gonna do you had you know one [TS]

01:49:58   floppy for like Das or whatever and then [TS]

01:50:00   the other floppy for actually doing so [TS]

01:50:02   it wasn't enough room in a 13 pound [TS]

01:50:05   package for them to fit the hard your [TS]

01:50:09   snarking but there wasn't [TS]

01:50:10   Welbeck portable had a 40 megabyte hard [TS]

01:50:12   drive so there you go 40 megabytes it [TS]

01:50:15   was also forced at $14,000 in 2016 money [TS]

01:50:18   by the way [TS]