The Accidental Tech Podcast

230: Auto, Dynamic, Fresh, Dank


00:00:00   little bit there is worth adding no well [TS]

00:00:03   it wasn't bolded I got scolded earlier I [TS]

00:00:05   should hi sorry alright we'll just we'll [TS]

00:00:08   just have to edit all this out let me [TS]

00:00:10   take a note John gets angry at Casey you [TS]

00:00:15   gotta be you gotta be serious with these [TS]

00:00:17   bowls John I already did trim this down [TS]

00:00:18   you realize it's not like I just copied [TS]

00:00:20   and pasted the thing you know this is [TS]

00:00:21   the trim version the bowls just to let [TS]

00:00:23   you know which parts are important [TS]

00:00:26   alright so let's get started as we have [TS]

00:00:28   to with follow up we have another [TS]

00:00:32   instance of a fairly long email that I'd [TS]

00:00:36   like to read most actually a couple [TS]

00:00:38   instances of this that I'd like to read [TS]

00:00:39   pretty much in their entirety because I [TS]

00:00:41   think they're really really fascinating [TS]

00:00:42   I would never generally do this but now [TS]

00:00:45   I'm making the exception the rule [TS]

00:00:46   because he's a really good email you do [TS]

00:00:48   like every two weeks and ever and I [TS]

00:00:50   always and I have to edit it in some [TS]

00:00:52   ways it's like nothing is more boring [TS]

00:00:55   and harder to follow then listen to [TS]

00:00:57   somebody read like a six paragraph email [TS]

00:00:59   in a podcast alright alright I'll try to [TS]

00:01:03   I'll try to make this as quick as I can [TS]

00:01:05   since John has done us the service of [TS]

00:01:07   bolding certain sections in the show [TS]

00:01:09   notes so we got some feedback from an [TS]

00:01:12   anonymous Microsoft employee on the [TS]

00:01:14   facial recognition in Windows and they [TS]

00:01:16   said all the surface devices since the [TS]

00:01:17   surface pro 4 which is the last two [TS]

00:01:19   generations apparently have supported [TS]

00:01:21   Windows hello this is different than [TS]

00:01:23   High Sierra this is Windows hello which [TS]

00:01:25   uses an infrared LED infrared depth [TS]

00:01:27   camera and RGB webcam to authenticate [TS]

00:01:30   via your face this technology's derived [TS]

00:01:31   from the Kinect and in has in general [TS]

00:01:34   been super well received it's fast very [TS]

00:01:35   reliable and works in the dark and this [TS]

00:01:37   includes a link to a video which we put [TS]

00:01:39   in the show notes it's also tricky to [TS]

00:01:41   fool arguably more secure than a [TS]

00:01:42   fingerprint and you can it can even tell [TS]

00:01:44   twins apart and we'll put a different [TS]

00:01:45   link in the show notes for that when [TS]

00:01:47   Microsoft tried to scale this down to [TS]

00:01:48   mobile devices in the Lumia 650 and 650 [TS]

00:01:51   XL the same technology didn't work for a [TS]

00:01:52   number of reasons including power cost [TS]

00:01:54   and constraints size constraints it is [TS]

00:01:56   the Lumia devices shipped in 2015 and [TS]

00:01:59   while the surface solution didn't scale [TS]

00:02:00   down effectively then I have no [TS]

00:02:01   difficulty believing Apple could scale [TS]

00:02:03   down to a full face solution like [TS]

00:02:05   Windows hello in 2017 that said most [TS]

00:02:08   good solutions I've seen require at [TS]

00:02:09   least two cameras I are in our GP RGB to [TS]

00:02:13   get depth [TS]

00:02:14   why it's a fleshie 3d object that's such [TS]

00:02:15   a funny word fleshie but anyway and [TS]

00:02:17   capture enough identifier x' as well as [TS]

00:02:19   an ir LED to function and mix lighting [TS]

00:02:21   conditions heavy backlighting and bright [TS]

00:02:23   sunlight are especially challenging it's [TS]

00:02:25   hard to see how these would fit into the [TS]

00:02:27   quote unquote forehead of Abbas L I'm [TS]

00:02:29   sorry bezel free iPhone without [TS]

00:02:31   significant cutouts in addition to [TS]

00:02:33   what's already required for the [TS]

00:02:34   front-facing camera and proximity sensor [TS]

00:02:36   blah blah blah all that to say it is [TS]

00:02:40   fast dependable delightful face [TS]

00:02:42   recognition that is absolutely possible [TS]

00:02:44   and is in fact par for the course on [TS]

00:02:46   some high-end Windows devices like the [TS]

00:02:47   surface yes it does introduce some UI [TS]

00:02:49   requirements for explicit confirmation [TS]

00:02:50   of intent for example with purchases [TS]

00:02:52   it's just a matter of time before [TS]

00:02:53   someone makes it work on a phone I [TS]

00:02:55   wouldn't be at all surprised if it to [TS]

00:02:57   hear Apple had done that this isn't a [TS]

00:02:59   thread of feedback with all the people [TS]

00:03:02   all the windows users telling us about [TS]

00:03:03   Windows hello many months ago and as [TS]

00:03:07   this person point the reason I picked [TS]

00:03:08   this email out is it is a Microsoft [TS]

00:03:10   employee and they talk specifically [TS]

00:03:12   about the challenges of getting it down [TS]

00:03:14   into a phone because obviously you have [TS]

00:03:15   luxuries on even just a laptop for in [TS]

00:03:18   fact that you don't have on phones you [TS]

00:03:19   got a lot of space to put sensors in [TS]

00:03:21   there you got a lot more power a lot [TS]

00:03:22   bigger battery usually you have more [TS]

00:03:24   computing power these days the phone was [TS]

00:03:26   probably faster than half of the things [TS]

00:03:27   they listed so so we'll see so yes the [TS]

00:03:31   face recognition on Windows hello is [TS]

00:03:32   there we got varying reports some people [TS]

00:03:34   say it's amazing it already exists that [TS]

00:03:36   it's wonderful that people said I can't [TS]

00:03:37   get it to recognize my face it takes [TS]

00:03:38   like three to five seconds then it [TS]

00:03:40   doesn't work half the time and I hate it [TS]

00:03:41   so mixed results but in general I think [TS]

00:03:44   mostly people like Windows hello and [TS]

00:03:46   think that it works well there's just a [TS]

00:03:48   question of can you get this in a phone [TS]

00:03:49   I love that like the new like Windows [TS]

00:03:53   did it is a lot like the old opera did [TS]

00:03:55   it like that Windows is now so [TS]

00:03:58   marginalized that like the cutting-edge [TS]

00:04:00   features of like the surface hardware [TS]

00:04:02   and like the stuff that's like the whole [TS]

00:04:04   pure of Microsoft stack hardware [TS]

00:04:05   software like so few people relatively [TS]

00:04:08   speaking are using that and enjoying [TS]

00:04:11   that to the point especially like around [TS]

00:04:13   these parts around like you know Apple [TS]

00:04:15   II tech podcast circles that we have no [TS]

00:04:18   idea what they're doing and they're so [TS]

00:04:21   like and they're doing important stuff [TS]

00:04:22   and innovative stuff and they just want [TS]

00:04:26   everyone to know that so much and [TS]

00:04:27   meanwhile [TS]

00:04:27   we're all like no one's ever done this [TS]

00:04:29   before like it's it's exactly what [TS]

00:04:31   exactly why the Opera people have were [TS]

00:04:33   always so mad because opera was doing [TS]

00:04:36   all these great features that other [TS]

00:04:38   browsers would add five years later and [TS]

00:04:40   act like no one had ever done them [TS]

00:04:41   before and everyone else believed the [TS]

00:04:43   reason people didn't know about it [TS]

00:04:44   because opera in the case of operas that [TS]

00:04:46   opera was would fall down on like the [TS]

00:04:48   basics like that it was people didn't [TS]

00:04:50   use it not just because it was obscure [TS]

00:04:51   and weird but because it just wasn't as [TS]

00:04:53   good a web browser in most cases those [TS]

00:04:55   other ones for like boring practical [TS]

00:04:57   reasons Windows is not as good of an [TS]

00:04:58   operating system that's what we use [TS]

00:05:00   these things anyway certainly doesn't [TS]

00:05:04   have the mind sure but like Windows [TS]

00:05:05   hello like I said we talked we talked [TS]

00:05:06   about it on this very podcast it's not [TS]

00:05:08   like we didn't know that it existed and [TS]

00:05:10   a lot of these features and I think we [TS]

00:05:11   talked about the Samsung face [TS]

00:05:12   recognition we a lot of these features [TS]

00:05:14   we do know have even been tried in foam [TS]

00:05:15   for it foam form factors before but you [TS]

00:05:19   know the reason we don't like have them [TS]

00:05:22   in front of mine is because I mean I [TS]

00:05:24   mentioned the Amazon fire phone last [TS]

00:05:26   time we like the five cameras and all [TS]

00:05:27   the sensors and everything is like if [TS]

00:05:28   they don't work really well it's like oh [TS]

00:05:30   well yeah they tried to do a thing but [TS]

00:05:32   they essentially failed and so it will [TS]

00:05:34   rise to the level of public [TS]

00:05:35   consciousness [TS]

00:05:36   if it becomes popular and everyone [TS]

00:05:40   agrees that it works really well and [TS]

00:05:41   because if we're every where and every [TS]

00:05:44   phone would be using it and so like no [TS]

00:05:45   one has really cracked it kind of like [TS]

00:05:46   fingerprint centers that essentially [TS]

00:05:47   work really well everywhere now and so [TS]

00:05:49   they're very very common so that's why [TS]

00:05:51   everybody knows unlocking the phone with [TS]

00:05:53   your finger as a thing whoever was first [TS]

00:05:56   with that and getting it to work [TS]

00:05:57   obviously we know about it from the [TS]

00:05:58   Apple world but for all we know Android [TS]

00:06:00   was doing it you know years before but [TS]

00:06:02   anyway that technology is kind of [TS]

00:06:03   settled and it works just fine face [TS]

00:06:05   recognition is still in the realm of [TS]

00:06:06   maybe on some desktop computers and some [TS]

00:06:09   operating systems some people think it [TS]

00:06:10   works great but no one has really nailed [TS]

00:06:12   it on the phone to the point where it's [TS]

00:06:13   better than fingerprint unlock or you [TS]

00:06:16   know typing in a code or whatever I also [TS]

00:06:18   do still do think that there are [TS]

00:06:20   significant challenges with face [TS]

00:06:21   recognition as an unlock method around [TS]

00:06:24   the issues of how do you confirm the [TS]

00:06:27   authentication and what do you do if you [TS]

00:06:29   don't want to authenticate something you [TS]

00:06:31   know and one one person I think it was [TS]

00:06:32   on Twitter pointed out the example of [TS]

00:06:34   like what if someone takes your phone [TS]

00:06:36   out of your hand and hold it up to your [TS]

00:06:38   face and then it like if the only come [TS]

00:06:41   from [TS]

00:06:41   thing is recognize your face and then [TS]

00:06:44   tap a thing on screen to say okay then [TS]

00:06:47   somebody can take your phone and just [TS]

00:06:49   authorize it right there in front of you [TS]

00:06:50   and then walk away we're gonna make [TS]

00:06:52   another Indiana Jones reference but a [TS]

00:06:54   writ is lost our current so you know [TS]

00:06:56   that one like the the watch [TS]

00:06:59   authentication where once you unlock [TS]

00:07:01   your watch as long as it's on your wrist [TS]

00:07:03   it's it's you know it stays unlocked but [TS]

00:07:05   if someone is to steal your watch it [TS]

00:07:06   automatically locks when it leaves your [TS]

00:07:08   wrist so I can imagine a similar feature [TS]

00:07:10   where the gesture of picking it up and [TS]

00:07:14   putting your finger on part of the [TS]

00:07:15   screen your finger has to be there then [TS]

00:07:18   then the camera recognizes you then you [TS]

00:07:20   press the screen or slide in a direction [TS]

00:07:23   or whatever and if any point in that [TS]

00:07:25   chain like that your finger leaves the [TS]

00:07:27   phone surface oh wherever you're [TS]

00:07:29   supposed to be holding them then then [TS]

00:07:31   it's all over so some pull the thing out [TS]

00:07:32   here out of your hand and you know I [TS]

00:07:38   don't know it's a difficult problem [TS]

00:07:39   you'd have to incorporate you'd have to [TS]

00:07:40   incorporate the fingerprint sensor I [TS]

00:07:41   guess but right like and the thing is [TS]

00:07:47   like the more complex that the gesture [TS]

00:07:49   is or the more requirements it has to [TS]

00:07:52   succeed in to unlock the phone and to [TS]

00:07:54   keep the phone unlocked the more often [TS]

00:07:56   that it won't work in legitimate use you [TS]

00:07:58   know the more legitimate use cases I [TS]

00:08:00   have were like okay well what if I want [TS]

00:08:01   to often to keep my phone while it's [TS]

00:08:02   sitting on a table and I could put my [TS]

00:08:03   thumb on it now but you know if you have [TS]

00:08:05   to have your hand on a certain part like [TS]

00:08:06   touch ID is so good I feel like it [TS]

00:08:11   solves so it solves or avoids so many of [TS]

00:08:14   these other weird little problems that [TS]

00:08:16   it would it would really take a lot to [TS]

00:08:19   make it worth not using touch ID anymore [TS]

00:08:22   I don't know I'm glad this is still a [TS]

00:08:25   rumored feature so don't even know if [TS]

00:08:26   shipping at all we won't have to [TS]

00:08:27   consider this but oh I guess we'll all [TS]

00:08:29   find out I still think it would be neat [TS]

00:08:31   to like just have it sort of work by [TS]

00:08:34   magic and just pick up your phone and [TS]

00:08:35   using it's just automatically unlocked [TS]

00:08:37   because you're you I would probably [TS]

00:08:39   sacrifice that for for the security of [TS]

00:08:42   like oh what if someone rips the phone [TS]

00:08:44   out of your hand because you know that's [TS]

00:08:46   not that common enough occurrence and my [TS]

00:08:49   circles that I travel in but for other [TS]

00:08:52   people I mean obviously if you have an [TS]

00:08:53   option to turn this on or off [TS]

00:08:54   really help let people decide what their [TS]

00:08:56   security profile is and we said in the [TS]

00:08:59   last show if you're in a situation like [TS]

00:09:01   in an airport or you're going through [TS]

00:09:02   immigration in some country you'd want [TS]

00:09:04   to avoid both touch ID and deface [TS]

00:09:06   recognition because you can be you know [TS]

00:09:08   compelled to unlock your phone in that [TS]

00:09:09   way there are other ways where you can [TS]

00:09:10   lock down your phone so that you have to [TS]

00:09:12   enter a big long password which they [TS]

00:09:14   would have to you know use what was it [TS]

00:09:17   rubber-hose cryptography pipe wrench [TS]

00:09:19   retiree tog Rafi this depending on what [TS]

00:09:21   version butters from the xkcd comic or [TS]

00:09:23   from the idea that the ask a CD comic is [TS]

00:09:25   derived from they just beat you with a [TS]

00:09:27   pipe wrench until you tell them the [TS]

00:09:28   password this reminds me also of the the [TS]

00:09:32   watch unlock on the desktop so if you [TS]

00:09:37   have an Apple watch that is actively [TS]

00:09:39   unlocked you're I forget the exact [TS]

00:09:40   requirements I think you're all on the [TS]

00:09:41   same like iCloud account or something [TS]

00:09:43   like that and you've enabled everything [TS]

00:09:45   on every device then what you can do is [TS]

00:09:46   if your watch is physically close to say [TS]

00:09:50   your iMac or something like that and you [TS]

00:09:53   tap a keyboard button or a mouse button [TS]

00:09:55   to wake it up then it's it will see if [TS]

00:09:58   your watch is nearby and if it's nearby [TS]

00:09:59   and it's authenticated etc then it will [TS]

00:10:03   go ahead and unlock the Mac for you and [TS]

00:10:06   that seems perfectly reasonable until [TS]

00:10:09   you think about say in office where you [TS]

00:10:11   know most of us work in cubicles and so [TS]

00:10:14   what if I'm a couple cubes down or maybe [TS]

00:10:17   it the next cube over and somebody goes [TS]

00:10:20   up to my work machine and neo smacks the [TS]

00:10:24   keyboard and it feels like my watch is [TS]

00:10:26   close enough then guess what that [TS]

00:10:28   thing's getting unlocked and on the [TS]

00:10:30   surface that's terrible but in reality [TS]

00:10:32   you should in theory be close enough [TS]

00:10:35   that you can hopefully see what is going [TS]

00:10:38   on with your device and if you're not [TS]

00:10:41   close enough to see what's going on it [TS]

00:10:42   hopefully wouldn't allow itself to be [TS]

00:10:43   unlocked but it's a similar kind of [TS]

00:10:46   problem right where there's a pretty [TS]

00:10:48   reasonable explanation or expectation I [TS]

00:10:51   should say that you are close and that [TS]

00:10:53   is the intended results for your device [TS]

00:10:55   to unlock but you don't know for sure [TS]

00:10:57   now the difference is which I didn't get [TS]

00:11:00   a chance to talk to you before the chat [TS]

00:11:01   rooms started yelling at me that you get [TS]

00:11:03   a notification on your watch hey [TS]

00:11:04   such-and-such has been unlocked [TS]

00:11:05   but it to me rings a similar set of [TS]

00:11:10   potential problems and for me it's been [TS]

00:11:12   working out really well and it's super [TS]

00:11:13   convenient so I kind of agree with you [TS]

00:11:15   John that in the circles I travel in [TS]

00:11:17   yeah I'm not too worried about it [TS]

00:11:18   by the way Casey as the person who knows [TS]

00:11:20   that they've seen Raiders can you do you [TS]

00:11:23   know what reference I was going to make [TS]

00:11:24   before I bail no I definitely [TS]

00:11:27   I've seen Raiders many times but I do [TS]

00:11:29   not know they're a beginning bit with [TS]

00:11:30   the idol I gotta take the idol off but [TS]

00:11:33   put a sandbag of equal weight like [TS]

00:11:34   someone maintained at the part that [TS]

00:11:38   you're it's kind of like stealing your [TS]

00:11:39   watch while keeping something touching [TS]

00:11:41   the sensor on the bottom so it stays [TS]

00:11:43   unlocked you know I bet Apollo Robbins [TS]

00:11:44   could do that yeah that's I was just [TS]

00:11:46   about to ask who's that guy that can do [TS]

00:11:48   that unbelievable like stealing stuff [TS]

00:11:51   while you're talking to that but that's [TS]

00:11:53   his next level you gets an Apple [TS]

00:11:54   sponsorship like he can remove people's [TS]

00:11:55   watches without them knowing but can you [TS]

00:11:57   do it while at the same time like [TS]

00:11:59   keeping something touching the proximity [TS]

00:12:01   sensors underneath the watch so it [TS]

00:12:02   remains unlocked that's the trick all [TS]

00:12:05   right moving on before I get stuck in [TS]

00:12:07   some Apollo Robbins videos they are [TS]

00:12:09   mesmerizing all right an anonymous Apple [TS]

00:12:12   source familiar with mdns responder has [TS]

00:12:14   also written in they said now I'm [TS]

00:12:17   quoting you said mdns responder was a [TS]

00:12:19   mess and had tons of bugs John said that [TS]

00:12:21   we didn't say that [TS]

00:12:23   I couldn't let that pass without a [TS]

00:12:25   response the reasons for the Bonjour [TS]

00:12:27   rewrite were entirely political nothing [TS]

00:12:30   to do with mdns responder if your [TS]

00:12:32   manager looking for something for your [TS]

00:12:33   team to do rewriting some extra software [TS]

00:12:35   seems much safer much existing software [TS]

00:12:37   excuse me seems much safer much more [TS]

00:12:39   predictable than thinking of something [TS]

00:12:41   new for yourself rewriting something [TS]

00:12:42   from scratch as we all know is that [TS]

00:12:44   terrible idea and there's a link to the [TS]

00:12:46   seminal Joel and software blog post [TS]

00:12:49   about this very thing coming back to the [TS]

00:12:51   email if you measure it in admittedly [TS]

00:12:53   crude simple numerical terms of number [TS]

00:12:55   of devices deployed mdns responders [TS]

00:12:57   arguably the most successful piece of [TS]

00:12:58   software ever to come out of Apple as [TS]

00:13:00   well as being on an almost every Apple [TS]

00:13:02   product it's also many other devices [TS]

00:13:03   almost all network printers TiVo network [TS]

00:13:05   cameras etc and in every Android device [TS]

00:13:08   which is not just Android phones and [TS]

00:13:09   tablets but also Android based [TS]

00:13:10   accessories if you consider the quality [TS]

00:13:14   and robustness of the mdns responder [TS]

00:13:17   code is illustrated by the fact that [TS]

00:13:18   even after being neglected for five [TS]

00:13:20   years finding an old copy of mdns [TS]

00:13:22   responder from a previous OS version and [TS]

00:13:23   installing it on Yosemite still worked [TS]

00:13:25   better than discovery d software Apple [TS]

00:13:27   brief briefly shipped before reverting [TS]

00:13:29   back to mdns responder I'm amused that [TS]

00:13:32   you heard that the return to UM DNS [TS]

00:13:34   responder was instigated by celebrity [TS]

00:13:35   emailing Tim Cook you're right about [TS]

00:13:37   that part except it wasn't Bono [TS]

00:13:39   wasn't Bono was Vint Cerf fair enough [TS]

00:13:42   and who is Vint Cerf can you explain to [TS]

00:13:44   the audience that's why we have link to [TS]

00:13:45   the Wikipedia page one of the fathers of [TS]

00:13:47   the internet an old guy who did a lots [TS]

00:13:49   of important work on the early internet [TS]

00:13:50   is that you know I'm not that old so [TS]

00:13:55   well first getting back to the part of [TS]

00:13:57   this of NBS responder being a buggy [TS]

00:14:00   there's a basis for that like first of [TS]

00:14:03   all being neglected for five years it's [TS]

00:14:04   never good for any piece of software [TS]

00:14:06   second as a regular user it was not [TS]

00:14:09   uncommon to have weird problems with [TS]

00:14:12   your Mac and to have the solution be [TS]

00:14:13   killing em DNS responder right I think I [TS]

00:14:16   don't know if you guys remember that but [TS]

00:14:17   I certainly do right so whether you want [TS]

00:14:20   to consider it a buggy mess or whatever [TS]

00:14:22   it is something that would be a [TS]

00:14:24   candidate for hey this this essential [TS]

00:14:28   piece of the system seems like it might [TS]

00:14:29   be getting a little creaky and if [TS]

00:14:31   someone has a good idea about how to [TS]

00:14:32   vastly improve it by all means do it the [TS]

00:14:35   Jones software thing about you should [TS]

00:14:37   think you should never do you should [TS]

00:14:38   never rewrite suffer a law that's been [TS]

00:14:40   hashed out to death I mean it's it's a [TS]

00:14:42   good presentation of a particular of one [TS]

00:14:44   side of a particular issue but of course [TS]

00:14:46   sometimes you do have to rewrite things [TS]

00:14:47   so many good things that we love came [TS]

00:14:49   from the decision to rewrite things you [TS]

00:14:51   just have to know when to do it and when [TS]

00:14:52   not to do it was basically Joel's point [TS]

00:14:53   but it was expressed in a very [TS]

00:14:55   hyperbolic way of like oh you should [TS]

00:14:56   just totally never do this let me tell [TS]

00:14:57   you all the great things that are about [TS]

00:14:58   like software that already has all the [TS]

00:15:00   corner cases and you know all the [TS]

00:15:04   education all the things that you've [TS]

00:15:06   learned over the years right baked into [TS]

00:15:08   it but on the Mac we have examples of [TS]

00:15:11   rewrites that are great and a lot of you [TS]

00:15:14   know important things that we have on [TS]

00:15:15   the Mac today are because someone [TS]

00:15:17   decided to abandon some old code and [TS]

00:15:18   rewrite it and we have some cautionary [TS]

00:15:20   tales so I think there's a reasonable [TS]

00:15:21   mix and I think it's not you know out of [TS]

00:15:24   bounds to say the mdns responder as it [TS]

00:15:26   was a candidate because it did cause [TS]

00:15:27   real-world problems for regular people [TS]

00:15:29   to the [TS]

00:15:30   it wasn't exactly the P Ram point but it [TS]

00:15:32   was the point at a certain point in the [TS]

00:15:33   history of the Mac that killing him DNS [TS]

00:15:36   responder to fix a whole host of [TS]

00:15:37   problems it became like one of those [TS]

00:15:38   things you might just want to try [TS]

00:15:39   because it could be what's going now [TS]

00:15:41   politically speaking who knows maybe [TS]

00:15:43   this because they said oh just don't [TS]

00:15:45   ever fix MDS respond over five years [TS]

00:15:47   whoever this person who wrote it seems [TS]

00:15:48   to think the project was neglected but [TS]

00:15:51   obviously discovery D was not a [TS]

00:15:54   successful rewrite and whatever reason [TS]

00:15:55   that the rewrite was undertaken and the [TS]

00:15:58   people who did it and whether that the [TS]

00:16:00   expertise are really understood what [TS]

00:16:02   mdns responder was doing and how it did [TS]

00:16:03   it and all the decisions that led to its [TS]

00:16:05   design all the things they learned it [TS]

00:16:07   just seems like it was not it was not a [TS]

00:16:10   project undertaken with the right [TS]

00:16:11   attitude and by the right people but [TS]

00:16:14   anyway this as to the idea of MDS [TS]

00:16:18   responder being on lots of different [TS]

00:16:20   systems this is news to me as well I [TS]

00:16:23   suppose it's got to be an open-source [TS]

00:16:26   component or maybe it's part of some [TS]

00:16:28   wider like I don't whether it's part of [TS]

00:16:30   Darwin or something even bigger [TS]

00:16:32   open-source component I don't know I [TS]

00:16:33   mean I only know it because it's that [TS]

00:16:34   process that I had to kill my Mac [TS]

00:16:35   sometimes it was super important and [TS]

00:16:37   then most people know because it's the [TS]

00:16:38   thing that came back to your place [TS]

00:16:39   discovery didn't make your max work [TS]

00:16:40   again well I did some very very quick [TS]

00:16:42   research sorry for everyone who knows a [TS]

00:16:44   lot more about it than this but so [TS]

00:16:45   Bonjour is the is the zeroconf [TS]

00:16:48   networking protocol that Apple [TS]

00:16:50   popularized under that name and [TS]

00:16:52   basically if you wanted to you know use [TS]

00:16:54   like a network printer or I use network [TS]

00:16:56   shares that were just listed by their [TS]

00:16:57   names automatically find each other [TS]

00:16:59   there's there's a very good chance it's [TS]

00:17:00   using this Bonjour protocol part of the [TS]

00:17:03   Bonjour software is M the NS responder [TS]

00:17:06   which is like the daemon on the systems [TS]

00:17:08   that manages that that apparently MDX [TS]

00:17:11   responder itself is open-source under [TS]

00:17:13   the Apache License and and so it [TS]

00:17:16   apparently went into all sorts of things [TS]

00:17:17   that had to support zeroconf networking [TS]

00:17:20   and/or bond the Bonjour protocol I think [TS]

00:17:23   you mean rendezvous right what a better [TS]

00:17:26   name rendezvous it was like so zeroconf [TS]

00:17:28   is the techie nerdy tech nology and then [TS]

00:17:31   rendezvous was how Apple branded it but [TS]

00:17:33   then in one of the rare cases or Apple [TS]

00:17:35   lost or decided not to fight someone [TS]

00:17:37   challenging their I figure what [TS]

00:17:39   situation was whether they just said oh [TS]

00:17:40   never mind [TS]

00:17:40   in your name or they actually lost the [TS]

00:17:42   court case they have to change it so [TS]

00:17:44   they changed upon her which is not bad [TS]

00:17:45   but boy rendezvous it was better exactly [TS]

00:17:47   so anyway so it appears that like lots [TS]

00:17:50   of different operating systems and [TS]

00:17:51   devices like printers and stuff all [TS]

00:17:53   embedded ambience responder because it [TS]

00:17:56   was open source so apparently that's why [TS]

00:17:59   it kind of went in all these different [TS]

00:18:01   things and went everywhere and is [TS]

00:18:03   apparently in Android as well which is [TS]

00:18:04   pretty pretty impressive that's that's [TS]

00:18:05   you know that is okay I gotta give this [TS]

00:18:08   guy credit for pointing out the stuff [TS]

00:18:09   like that is really quite widespread and [TS]

00:18:13   I always just assumed it was just an [TS]

00:18:15   apple thing but nope [TS]

00:18:16   oh I would add the idea of it being [TS]

00:18:18   successful in it being deployed [TS]

00:18:20   everywhere two very different things [TS]

00:18:21   there's lots of software that's deployed [TS]

00:18:23   everywhere the success if your success [TS]

00:18:27   is just measured by how far and wide you [TS]

00:18:29   spread all sorts of terrible things can [TS]

00:18:31   be quote unquote successful Windows that [TS]

00:18:34   many but even if you just take some [TS]

00:18:37   terrible code in the core of UNIX that's [TS]

00:18:40   just been passed around because it's [TS]

00:18:42   sort of unimportant but it's just that's [TS]

00:18:43   where a lot of bugs and buffer overflows [TS]

00:18:45   come from some really old library and [TS]

00:18:48   some BSD UNIX variant that just gets [TS]

00:18:52   passed around and no one ever looks at [TS]

00:18:54   it and it's just gross crusty little [TS]

00:18:55   corner and yeah anyway I don't know [TS]

00:19:00   exactly why mdns responder was chosen as [TS]

00:19:05   a victim for a rewrite but I think it [TS]

00:19:07   was it was a reasonable decision but it [TS]

00:19:11   was followed up by terrible executions [TS]

00:19:12   so you gotta you get both parts of it if [TS]

00:19:14   you if you identify the parts of justice [TS]

00:19:16   and that could benefit from rewrites [TS]

00:19:17   then you do a bad job you have not [TS]

00:19:19   succeeded what it's worth open-source [TS]

00:19:22   not Apple comm slash source slash mdns [TS]

00:19:24   responder oh and by the way now that we [TS]

00:19:28   know more about the open source nature [TS]

00:19:29   of this maybe it wasn't such a good [TS]

00:19:30   candidate because when there is a [TS]

00:19:32   project like an open source project that [TS]

00:19:33   lots of other people use that is sort of [TS]

00:19:35   being worked on like other people have a [TS]

00:19:37   stake in this like if mdns responder [TS]

00:19:39   really is broken or whatever presumably [TS]

00:19:40   there's lots of people from lots of [TS]

00:19:41   different companies that are motivated [TS]

00:19:43   to make it not suck right and you say [TS]

00:19:45   you know what we're gonna write our own [TS]

00:19:47   thing it's like saying we've been using [TS]

00:19:49   WebKit which everybody helps update but [TS]

00:19:51   we would like our own engine so we're [TS]

00:19:52   just gonna start our own from [TS]

00:19:53   scratch again it's probably not a great [TS]

00:19:54   idea now I'm DNS responders house same [TS]

00:19:56   things web kid obviously in terms of [TS]

00:19:57   complexity importance but if everyone [TS]

00:19:59   else in the industry is using endianness [TS]

00:20:01   responder and presumably updating it and [TS]

00:20:02   fixing it and you decide to go to on [TS]

00:20:04   your own boy you better have the best [TS]

00:20:05   team available with lots of people on it [TS]

00:20:08   to equal the effort and smarts and [TS]

00:20:11   experience of everyone else who's [TS]

00:20:12   maintaining in the as responder so [TS]

00:20:14   perhaps it wasn't actually such a great [TS]

00:20:15   candidate this episode is brought to you [TS]

00:20:18   by Squarespace start building your [TS]

00:20:21   website today at squarespace.com and her [TS]

00:20:24   offer code ATP at checkout to get 10% [TS]

00:20:25   off make your next move with Squarespace [TS]

00:20:29   pretty much any project you want to do [TS]

00:20:31   today you need a website and there's [TS]

00:20:34   lots of different ways to host websites [TS]

00:20:35   but most of them are incredibly time [TS]

00:20:37   consuming or incredibly difficult or [TS]

00:20:40   need a lot of maintenance over time with [TS]

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00:20:46   you they handle the hosting the security [TS]

00:20:48   you don't have to deal with software [TS]

00:20:49   updates anything like that handling big [TS]

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00:20:53   all for you and you don't have to worry [TS]

00:20:56   about it you can focus on the actual [TS]

00:20:58   reason you make your site in the first [TS]

00:20:59   place your business your project your [TS]

00:21:02   hobby your portfolio your store your [TS]

00:21:04   blog your podcast you can host all of [TS]

00:21:07   these wonderful site types on [TS]

00:21:08   Squarespace and so many more and that [TS]

00:21:10   there's some hardwoods in there remember [TS]

00:21:11   I said store podcasts like these are [TS]

00:21:13   hard things to host and Squarespace can [TS]

00:21:16   do it all start a free trial today at [TS]

00:21:18   squarespace.com to see for yourself when [TS]

00:21:20   you need just try it see what you can do [TS]

00:21:22   in like an hour or two when you need to [TS]

00:21:24   make a website for something maybe you [TS]

00:21:26   don't need it today but next time you [TS]

00:21:28   need to make a website [TS]

00:21:28   try squarespace first you'll be shocked [TS]

00:21:30   what you can do in so little time and [TS]

00:21:32   then it's done and it looks amazing it [TS]

00:21:35   looks professional these are [TS]

00:21:36   professionally designed templates you [TS]

00:21:38   can customize them to your heart's [TS]

00:21:39   content with drag-and-drop it's so easy [TS]

00:21:42   even if you have no skill whatsoever [TS]

00:21:44   making websites you can use Squarespace [TS]

00:21:46   to make something beautiful [TS]

00:21:47   so check out today go to Squarespace com [TS]

00:21:49   start that free trial when you sign up [TS]

00:21:51   make sure to use offer code ATP to get [TS]

00:21:54   10% off your first purchase make your [TS]

00:21:57   next move with a beautiful website from [TS]

00:21:59   Squarespace [TS]

00:22:02   all right Syd Polk writes I was at Apple [TS]

00:22:05   when do you ILD to was developed and [TS]

00:22:07   released there was a guy who worked on [TS]

00:22:10   linkers he was bothered one day by how [TS]

00:22:12   slow do LD was so he spent the weekend [TS]

00:22:14   writing a new one from scratch because [TS]

00:22:16   why not it was eventually released in a [TS]

00:22:17   software update during the 10.3 cycle [TS]

00:22:20   but the release notes for it were [TS]

00:22:21   included in the 10.4 release the [TS]

00:22:23   engineer who wrote dild 2 also wrote [TS]

00:22:25   dild 3 I trust Kim's specifically also [TS]

00:22:30   this is what public betas are for we did [TS]

00:22:32   not have those in 2003 which is kind of [TS]

00:22:34   funny I think people are surprised at [TS]

00:22:37   exactly how few people are responsible [TS]

00:22:40   for such important part so this isn't [TS]

00:22:41   like they always assume is like hundreds [TS]

00:22:43   of engineer and is like I figure what [TS]

00:22:45   Twitter's employee count was some was [TS]

00:22:47   something obscene like 3,000 employees [TS]

00:22:49   or something like what are all those [TS]

00:22:51   people doing and then you learn like how [TS]

00:22:52   many people work on you know the dynamic [TS]

00:22:55   linker for the Mac operating system and [TS]

00:22:58   iOS and TV Oh us and watch OS and you're [TS]

00:23:01   like boy that's probably a team of a [TS]

00:23:02   couple hundred people it's like five [TS]

00:23:03   people it's like five you know and [TS]

00:23:05   really like like two or three of them [TS]

00:23:07   are doing the bulk of the work and the [TS]

00:23:08   guy who did the D way LD you know is [TS]

00:23:10   largely responsible for the do LD three [TS]

00:23:12   also was responsible to do lb 2 and he [TS]

00:23:14   did it in a weekend and an earlier more [TS]

00:23:16   innocent time push it out in a software [TS]

00:23:18   update in the middle of the ten point [TS]

00:23:19   three point next cycle you know this is [TS]

00:23:22   a different time but even today like the [TS]

00:23:24   teams are teams at Apple are smaller [TS]

00:23:26   than you think [TS]

00:23:27   and that gets back to the whole like how [TS]

00:23:29   money can't solve your your talent and [TS]

00:23:31   retention problems like if you could [TS]

00:23:32   mold money into the shape of people [TS]

00:23:34   Gollum style or Gollum style and or how [TS]

00:23:37   to pronounce it in this context Apple [TS]

00:23:39   would do it but they can't they actually [TS]

00:23:40   have to hire people and keep them happy [TS]

00:23:41   and give them interesting things to do [TS]

00:23:43   and you need the right people and very [TS]

00:23:45   often some of the best software is [TS]

00:23:46   written by very small teams of people [TS]

00:23:48   who really know what they're doing and [TS]

00:23:49   are very enthusiastic rather than [TS]

00:23:51   hundreds and hundreds of people being [TS]

00:23:53   directed by seventeen levels of [TS]

00:23:55   management fair enough [TS]

00:23:57   also it's Gangnam style actually I [TS]

00:24:00   probably even pronounce that wrong there [TS]

00:24:01   you go all right anyway please cut that [TS]

00:24:04   from the show so I don't get a million [TS]

00:24:05   pieces of feedback no anyhow hair in [TS]

00:24:08   Kirkland writes in on my Mac to FX I had [TS]

00:24:12   that is not a very good name of him [TS]

00:24:14   honest but [TS]

00:24:14   on my Mac what's not good about 2fx [TS]

00:24:18   that's one of the best Mac names ever [TS]

00:24:20   one of the best Mac's everyone FX who [TS]

00:24:23   does like FX it's pronounced effects [TS]

00:24:25   it's got an accident so it's cool that's [TS]

00:24:27   a it's a pun for effects it was the name [TS]

00:24:30   of a movie in the 80s about special [TS]

00:24:31   effects they don't make those anymore [TS]

00:24:33   now you get now you see them which is [TS]

00:24:35   about magic or something terrible [TS]

00:24:37   remember movie magic that was a great TV [TS]

00:24:39   show effects the whole yeah neither one [TS]

00:24:41   of you is probably seeing that effects [TS]

00:24:43   and that's probably a terrible 80s movie [TS]

00:24:44   but Casey might like it don't you make [TS]

00:24:53   fun of fun for October no I'm just [TS]

00:24:54   saying like you're not gonna turn up [TS]

00:24:56   your nose at a movie with like slightly [TS]

00:24:58   dated sort of tropes or whatever anyway [TS]

00:25:00   FX was a great movie to get movies [TS]

00:25:03   terrible in case you would like it I [TS]

00:25:04   know right great movie to catch on a [TS]

00:25:08   Saturday when you're 12 years old I [TS]

00:25:11   don't know if I love you John or both on [TS]

00:25:14   my Mac two effects horrible name or not [TS]

00:25:17   right snare in Kirkland I had a floppy [TS]

00:25:18   disc or a little while why are we still [TS]

00:25:20   talking about this i poppy disc [TS]

00:25:21   autoloader that would hold 25 discs for [TS]

00:25:24   unattempted retrospect backup and it [TS]

00:25:27   relied on auto inject this is the [TS]

00:25:29   discussion actually I was having with [TS]

00:25:31   Merlin at some point oh I think it was [TS]

00:25:32   off the air about I had this [TS]

00:25:34   recollection that there were devices [TS]

00:25:36   that would do the floppy swapping for [TS]

00:25:39   you I'm like that's probably just [TS]

00:25:40   something I was thinking of when I was a [TS]

00:25:42   kid I don't think those things ever [TS]

00:25:44   existed because when you're swapping [TS]

00:25:45   floppies manually you're like surely I [TS]

00:25:47   can make a machine do you know some sort [TS]

00:25:48   of Rube Goldberg machine to do this for [TS]

00:25:51   me right but this person says that [TS]

00:25:55   apparently such thing actually existed [TS]

00:25:57   so my I convinced myself that it was [TS]

00:25:59   like a false memory but then I asked you [TS]

00:26:01   remember the make and model and he [TS]

00:26:03   didn't I would love to if anyone anyway [TS]

00:26:06   if anybody has knows more about these [TS]

00:26:08   can provide like a picture or a name or [TS]

00:26:10   something to Google so we can find one [TS]

00:26:12   of these things and see what it looked [TS]

00:26:13   like I would love to see such a thing [TS]

00:26:14   you can always you can't rely on the [TS]

00:26:16   world of large-scale backup hardware [TS]

00:26:19   like tape drives and everything else for [TS]

00:26:21   the weirdest stuff out there you do a [TS]

00:26:24   large-scale backups on to 3.5 inch [TS]

00:26:26   floppy disks that sounds great right [TS]

00:26:28   well you know and and because like there [TS]

00:26:30   was a need for that like not everybody [TS]

00:26:32   needed that at that time but someone [TS]

00:26:33   needed it and someone was willing to pay [TS]

00:26:35   thousands of dollars for that probably [TS]

00:26:36   yeah retrospect whether it was a Mac [TS]

00:26:39   backup program which someone the chat [TS]

00:26:41   room was saying was terrible but I think [TS]

00:26:42   had some kind of neat features I used it [TS]

00:26:44   for many years all right any other [TS]

00:26:46   follow-up kids we're still in follow up [TS]

00:26:49   I know this was a long one those emails [TS]

00:26:52   were good though so that's true [TS]

00:26:54   they were pretty good I'll give I'll [TS]

00:26:55   give John a bye on this one because we [TS]

00:26:57   all know good follow-up is our fault but [TS]

00:26:59   bad follow-up is John's fault that [TS]

00:27:01   sounds right all right so chief waffler [TS]

00:27:08   in chief what'd you buy these days this [TS]

00:27:12   was not a waffle this was just straight [TS]

00:27:13   up narrower down that question Casey [TS]

00:27:18   what did you buy in the last four [TS]

00:27:21   biggest thing physically speaking that [TS]

00:27:23   you purchased recently what what impulse [TS]

00:27:27   buy what multi-thousand dollar impulse [TS]

00:27:29   buy did you just do so we've had our our [TS]

00:27:34   wonderful plasma 42-inch Panasonic 85u [TS]

00:27:38   TV for about ten years and it's fine [TS]

00:27:43   it's great but you know in in the room [TS]

00:27:46   that we have it in like we we have a [TS]

00:27:49   pretty large like first floor great room [TS]

00:27:51   in our house when I first got this TV I [TS]

00:27:53   was still in apartments and it was great [TS]

00:27:55   for apartment for apartments in the room [TS]

00:27:57   we had it in it was a little small for [TS]

00:28:00   like the setup we had in that room but [TS]

00:28:01   it was still fine so I was just waiting [TS]

00:28:03   for it to die before I replaced it I [TS]

00:28:05   didn't want it to die for a long time [TS]

00:28:08   because a nice 1080p plasma was still [TS]

00:28:14   kind of the best thing you could get for [TS]

00:28:15   a while and I often wanted to die for a [TS]

00:28:18   while because over time like when I [TS]

00:28:20   bought it you could get a 42 inch screen [TS]

00:28:23   that was like the highest quality type [TS]

00:28:26   of screen today if you want a great [TS]

00:28:29   image quality TV the smallest you can [TS]

00:28:32   get them in is usually 55 inches and for [TS]

00:28:36   a long time I was I was kind of hoping [TS]

00:28:38   that my TV would hold out long or long [TS]

00:28:40   or longer because [TS]

00:28:42   a 55-inch plasmas were huge like you [TS]

00:28:46   know because plasmas still retained [TS]

00:28:48   quite a bit of thickness and bezel with [TS]

00:28:50   you know even even until the end of [TS]

00:28:52   plasmas compared to the other [TS]

00:28:54   technologies and so a 55 inch plasma was [TS]

00:28:57   a pretty big thing and I thought that [TS]

00:28:59   would be too big for the room and for [TS]

00:29:00   the TV stand and everything else so I [TS]

00:29:02   really didn't want to upgrade to that I [TS]

00:29:03   also like 1080p was great and like i [TS]

00:29:06   already had 1080p with great color great [TS]

00:29:08   black levels like great you know great [TS]

00:29:10   brightness everything else because [TS]

00:29:11   plasmas are awesome so I was basically I [TS]

00:29:15   didn't want to have to replace my TV [TS]

00:29:17   until he got a really great 4k HDR OLED [TS]

00:29:22   TV because I hate LCD like LCD is a [TS]

00:29:26   terrible TV technology the only thing [TS]

00:29:28   good about it is that it costs almost [TS]

00:29:29   nothing that's it [TS]

00:29:31   everything else about LCD TVs is [TS]

00:29:33   terrible so I wanted to use go from [TS]

00:29:36   plasma to OLED and don't don't even give [TS]

00:29:39   me anything about LED TVs because we all [TS]

00:29:41   know that's fake that's a wonderful [TS]

00:29:42   marketing sleight of hand I can't [TS]

00:29:44   believe they pulled it off but they did [TS]

00:29:45   anyway [TS]

00:29:46   when we were at the beach last week the [TS]

00:29:49   house had a really big cheap LCD TV that [TS]

00:29:54   was about 50 inches and TIFF messaged me [TS]

00:29:56   one night saying ok we can get a bigger [TS]

00:30:00   TV I said nothing and within 45 seconds [TS]

00:30:05   it was already ordered in on its way why [TS]

00:30:08   was she saying that because she was [TS]

00:30:09   watching the cruddy LCD TV in there it [TS]

00:30:13   was like why does that mean we can get [TS]

00:30:14   AB it was the one in the house 2 small [TS]

00:30:17   fir [TS]

00:30:17   I think she was fine I think seeing the [TS]

00:30:20   cruddy one finally convinced her that a [TS]

00:30:22   bigger TV can look really nice oh it was [TS]

00:30:26   this one bigger it's 50 you said yeah [TS]

00:30:28   it's 50 and I was compared to 42 and so [TS]

00:30:31   she was like wow this 50-inch does it [TS]

00:30:33   feels so much bigger sitting closer to [TS]

00:30:35   it then yeah she also was sitting closer [TS]

00:30:38   to it yes but anyway I've been dying to [TS]

00:30:40   get a know a 4k OLED TV ever since I saw [TS]

00:30:44   one and Best Buy like last year and I [TS]

00:30:47   already had all the research done that [TS]

00:30:49   like you know that if I had the reason [TS]

00:30:51   to get a 4k TV this year that I would [TS]

00:30:54   get an LG [TS]

00:30:56   you know whatever the LG 4k OLED series [TS]

00:30:59   of the year was because all the reviews [TS]

00:31:02   seemed to be in pretty wide agreement [TS]

00:31:04   that that's basically the best one out [TS]

00:31:06   there [TS]

00:31:07   so finally TIFF said okay we can get a [TS]

00:31:12   bigger TV and I said absolutely nothing [TS]

00:31:15   about it until it arrived because I did [TS]

00:31:20   not want to bring the conversation back [TS]

00:31:22   up to have it maybe be back down or have [TS]

00:31:25   her mind changed this I'm not sure if [TS]

00:31:28   this is indicative of you having [TS]

00:31:30   mastered marriage or you having a real [TS]

00:31:34   and true problem with buying shit or [TS]

00:31:37   maybe both to be honest with you TIFF [TS]

00:31:40   did not appreciate this strategy where [TS]

00:31:50   are you sleeping tonight are you [TS]

00:31:53   this resulted in a she to get me back [TS]

00:31:57   for it she pairs got me undoing all the [TS]

00:31:59   wires and stuff with the old one which [TS]

00:32:01   is basically used to periscope of my [TS]

00:32:02   butt leaning over the TV stand for like [TS]

00:32:05   an hour and now we are even but by the [TS]

00:32:09   way the small TV problem remains we have [TS]

00:32:12   a small TV in our bedroom and it was so [TS]

00:32:13   hard to find a small television they [TS]

00:32:17   forget about like the best picture [TS]

00:32:19   quality just like not the worst picture [TS]

00:32:21   quality because small televisions are [TS]

00:32:24   like Oh someone's gonna use in the [TS]

00:32:25   kitchen so put the crappiest thing you [TS]

00:32:28   can it hasn't gotten better over time as [TS]

00:32:30   everything's crept up it used to be the [TS]

00:32:31   good TVs were 42 that new go TVs were 50 [TS]

00:32:34   this is the minimum size now like you [TS]

00:32:36   said the good TVs are 55 minimum size [TS]

00:32:38   everything's creeping up so to try to [TS]

00:32:41   find like now it's a choices kitchen TV [TS]

00:32:43   or 55 inch and in between the bill mans [TS]

00:32:46   land of crap yeah basically it's so I'm [TS]

00:32:49   sorry what model did you order Marco so [TS]

00:32:52   I I did what I had been researching to [TS]

00:32:54   do I did a quick double-check before [TS]

00:32:56   just make sure nothing have changed [TS]

00:32:58   but everyone seemed to agree so I got [TS]

00:33:00   the LG 2017 4k OLED series that has [TS]

00:33:04   sevens in the names and they have they [TS]

00:33:06   put a number in front of or a letter in [TS]

00:33:08   front of them to indicate [TS]

00:33:09   as far as I can tell nothing except like [TS]

00:33:11   the soundbar that's included so you can [TS]

00:33:14   pay like a small or you well no no no [TS]

00:33:16   these are small amounts you can pay a [TS]

00:33:17   smaller amount to get one with just like [TS]

00:33:20   regular TV speakers in it like on the [TS]

00:33:21   back and then you can pay like a [TS]

00:33:23   thousand dollars more to get a little [TS]

00:33:24   sound bar in the bottom and I hate sound [TS]

00:33:26   bars anyway so that that was not gonna [TS]

00:33:28   be a thing and then you could pay a [TS]

00:33:29   thousand dollars more than that to get [TS]

00:33:31   like even better of a sound bar on the [TS]

00:33:33   bottom or something and and so the one I [TS]

00:33:36   got is the base model of the 2017 one [TS]

00:33:38   which is the LG c7 TV so it's amazing [TS]

00:33:43   that 55 inches yeah 55 yeah so why [TS]

00:33:47   didn't you go to 65 well first I knew I [TS]

00:33:51   wanted I knew I had to like sell this [TS]

00:33:52   when it arrived and and now that we see [TS]

00:33:56   it in the room I think I actually [TS]

00:33:58   probably could have pulled off 65 but [TS]

00:34:01   the reason why I'm glad I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:34:04   I'm happy enough with the 55 now is that [TS]

00:34:06   first of all it is a substantial upgrade [TS]

00:34:08   from 42 but the good thing is the TV [TS]

00:34:11   itself does not look that much bigger on [TS]

00:34:13   the shelf because there's such a [TS]

00:34:15   difference in bezel width like the the [TS]

00:34:17   new one has almost no bezel at all and [TS]

00:34:19   the old one the bezels were like you [TS]

00:34:21   know three inches on all sides it's a [TS]

00:34:24   huge difference in bezel width and [TS]

00:34:27   thickness like the new one looks really [TS]

00:34:29   sleek and has a screen that is more than [TS]

00:34:32   10 inches bigger but it doesn't look [TS]

00:34:34   like that that much bigger of a TV which [TS]

00:34:36   is nice because we we don't want the TV [TS]

00:34:39   to like dominate the look of the room [TS]

00:34:41   like when you get a TV that's too big [TS]

00:34:43   for the room or this even just like kind [TS]

00:34:45   of big for the room that is like your [TS]

00:34:47   eye is drawn to that even when it's off [TS]

00:34:49   like it's you just have like this big [TS]

00:34:50   black wall in your room like it's [TS]

00:34:53   something that is very dominant and [TS]

00:34:54   because like our TV is not like in some [TS]

00:34:58   like back room of the house it's like [TS]

00:35:00   the main room like we walk into our [TS]

00:35:02   house and you're in this like main room [TS]

00:35:03   that has the TV in the living room and [TS]

00:35:05   dining room all like in one big room to [TS]

00:35:08   make the TV substantially bigger I think [TS]

00:35:10   would would look too big for the room [TS]

00:35:13   but now we have the actual screen size [TS]

00:35:15   of the bigger TV without it looking that [TS]

00:35:17   much bigger so it's almost like we've [TS]

00:35:19   got the extra screen size like for free [TS]

00:35:21   visually but the head about the touch [TS]

00:35:23   idea [TS]

00:35:23   the back though the only thing is TVs [TS]

00:35:28   have gotten a lot more full of crappy [TS]

00:35:30   software since I last bought a TV 10 [TS]

00:35:32   years ago or worse products through [TS]

00:35:34   software yeah exactly green like this TV [TS]

00:35:37   takes a good 20 seconds to boot I don't [TS]

00:35:41   know why a TV has to boot but [TS]

00:35:42   fortunately if you just put it in like [TS]

00:35:44   standby mode instead of turning it [TS]

00:35:46   because it's got away boss you have to [TS]

00:35:48   say it like yeah all software on TVs is [TS]

00:35:50   terrible but everyone agrees this is the [TS]

00:35:53   best software on TVs or close to the [TS]

00:35:55   best I mean there is there's some [TS]

00:35:57   disagreement but if you want any kind of [TS]

00:35:58   quote-unquote Smart TV features the [TS]

00:36:00   webOS things that that LG uses are the [TS]

00:36:04   least disgusting let's say that because [TS]

00:36:06   nobody does what Panasonic used to which [TS]

00:36:08   is completely utilitarian minimal like I [TS]

00:36:12   remember my first Panasonic Plasma had [TS]

00:36:14   like the volume the little volume bar [TS]

00:36:16   that appears and screaming you change [TS]

00:36:17   the volume mm-hmm [TS]

00:36:18   was really small and was jammed against [TS]

00:36:21   the bottom edge of the screen so it [TS]

00:36:22   obscured its little like nobody does [TS]

00:36:24   that now now you change the volume and [TS]

00:36:26   it's like a giant fairy comes out and [TS]

00:36:27   waves a magic wand that sparkles fly [TS]

00:36:30   from it and this bar from a bubbling [TS]

00:36:32   liquid moves forward in this pulsing [TS]

00:36:34   past I know my god just change the [TS]

00:36:36   volume the good thing is it's actually [TS]

00:36:39   you know even though that the software [TS]

00:36:41   is really kind of overbearing it is it [TS]

00:36:44   doesn't seem like it's horrible software [TS]

00:36:47   it's just it's software where I don't [TS]

00:36:50   really need there to be software but the [TS]

00:36:52   good thing is it also has built-in apps [TS]

00:36:54   for Netflix and Amazon video so every TV [TS]

00:36:57   has that excite no III this is this is [TS]

00:37:00   again like the offer people it's like [TS]

00:37:01   yes we know we invented those years ago [TS]

00:37:02   yeah I know but so it's new to me and [TS]

00:37:05   it's actually kind of nice and it's got [TS]

00:37:07   the the little accelerometer remote with [TS]

00:37:11   a little mouse cursor thing which I [TS]

00:37:12   thought would be terrible but having [TS]

00:37:13   used it it's it's actually pretty good [TS]

00:37:15   we have different opinions about that no [TS]

00:37:17   you know like it I mean the alternative [TS]

00:37:19   is using like a five-way pad to move a [TS]

00:37:22   little thing around I like the little [TS]

00:37:23   accelerometer of course we're thinking I [TS]

00:37:25   have not found it to be to have the [TS]

00:37:28   precision I want maybe that's just me [TS]

00:37:29   maybe I don't have the precision I want [TS]

00:37:31   but would you prefer to go tap tap tap [TS]

00:37:33   tap tap tap because I find it I find it [TS]

00:37:36   put it this way [TS]

00:37:36   I find it [TS]

00:37:37   more precise than the other main thing I [TS]

00:37:39   use to navigate stuff on TV which is a [TS]

00:37:41   stupid Apple TV remote where I'm forever [TS]

00:37:42   trying to swipe vertically and [TS]

00:37:44   horizontally and that's true it's [TS]

00:37:45   misinterpreting me yeah yeah so for the [TS]

00:37:48   listeners who might have missed what we [TS]

00:37:49   were talking about here the remote to [TS]

00:37:51   this behaves a lot like a Wii mote where [TS]

00:37:53   the TV somehow senses I don't know if [TS]

00:37:56   it's only solar ometer or if it's also a [TS]

00:37:58   division based thing like the Wii mote [TS]

00:37:59   head with a little IR bar but somehow [TS]

00:38:01   they're remote you just wave it around [TS]

00:38:03   and it moves a little mouse pointer [TS]

00:38:05   thing on screen and it doesn't I don't [TS]

00:38:07   I'd say it does not work as well as a [TS]

00:38:10   Wii mote does in that way is it isn't as [TS]

00:38:13   precise or stable so it's fine [TS]

00:38:16   ultimately you know it I'm assuming that [TS]

00:38:19   there's gonna be a 4k Apple TV update [TS]

00:38:22   this fall once we have that 4k Apple TV [TS]

00:38:25   I don't expect to ever use the built-in [TS]

00:38:26   software on this TV again it's the kind [TS]

00:38:29   of thing I'm just like setting it up [TS]

00:38:29   once going through all the pictures [TS]

00:38:31   having trying to find out how to make it [TS]

00:38:32   look normal and then you just leave it [TS]

00:38:34   after that so I I don't expect the [TS]

00:38:37   software of this TV to matter at all to [TS]

00:38:39   me you know after this way except for [TS]

00:38:41   potentially the boot time and whatever [TS]

00:38:42   the volume control looks like when you [TS]

00:38:44   move it up and down that's well I'm not [TS]

00:38:46   I don't use the vine control the TV who [TS]

00:38:48   uses TV speakers animals that's who we [TS]

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00:40:08   better watching you briefly on the [TS]

00:40:15   periscope try to adjust the picture I [TS]

00:40:16   have some advice here we go this is how [TS]

00:40:22   TIF gets you back it's not the butt cam [TS]

00:40:24   2017 edition it's giving John insight [TS]

00:40:27   into how you set up the TV just come to [TS]

00:40:29   our house and do it for me I mean it's a [TS]

00:40:32   periscope and he's under the public eye [TS]

00:40:34   and he's just fiddling around with [TS]

00:40:35   things but in general what you were [TS]

00:40:37   doing is exactly what people shouldn't [TS]

00:40:38   do when they adjust the TV which is play [TS]

00:40:40   with the settings and try to see it try [TS]

00:40:43   to think does it look right turn this on [TS]

00:40:44   turn this off what does this mode mean [TS]

00:40:46   blah blah blah so you're never gonna [TS]

00:40:49   you're never gonna arrive at anything [TS]

00:40:50   that way so to first of all the thing [TS]

00:40:52   that Marco knows and that everyone else [TS]

00:40:54   should know is when you buy TV no matter [TS]

00:40:56   where you get it from almost all the [TS]

00:40:58   time it is configured badly it might [TS]

00:41:03   still be in showroom demo mode where [TS]

00:41:04   everything is like super saturated and [TS]

00:41:06   super bright with all the effects on but [TS]

00:41:08   even if it's not the sort of standard [TS]

00:41:10   default modes on most TVs is not quote [TS]

00:41:13   unquote accurate it's not what what the [TS]

00:41:16   people who created the content we're [TS]

00:41:18   expecting you to see because they're [TS]

00:41:19   sort of creating it and you know [TS]

00:41:21   mastering it in in a particular color [TS]

00:41:23   space with the expectation things look a [TS]

00:41:25   certain way the only way to get the [TS]

00:41:27   television configured correctly is to [TS]

00:41:29   use some sort of calibration thing [TS]

00:41:31   whether it's an app or a blu-ray or [TS]

00:41:33   whatever and the tricky part is the the [TS]

00:41:37   place where your configuration thing [TS]

00:41:40   comes from like the source affects how [TS]

00:41:43   you're configuring it like if you can [TS]

00:41:46   get a configuration thing to run on your [TS]

00:41:48   Apple TV that will and your and your [TS]

00:41:51   adjustments are per input that will [TS]

00:41:52   correctly adjust the Apple TV input but [TS]

00:41:54   then how do you correctly adjust the [TS]

00:41:56   input that is you know if you use that [TS]

00:41:58   same setting and apply it to your other [TS]

00:42:00   inputs or some TVs don't even let you do [TS]

00:42:02   like how do you apply that to the [TS]

00:42:03   blu-ray [TS]

00:42:04   and how do you applied to one of the [TS]

00:42:05   cables in or whatever that's something [TS]

00:42:06   you have to sort it out in every TV but [TS]

00:42:07   he did right you have to get a [TS]

00:42:09   calibration thing and there's tons of [TS]

00:42:10   calibration things that are out there [TS]

00:42:11   they give you grayscale things they tell [TS]

00:42:13   you what it should look like and then [TS]

00:42:14   all sorts of color patterns and then you [TS]

00:42:17   have to basically mess with the menus of [TS]

00:42:21   your television to get the test patterns [TS]

00:42:23   to look correct to do that to figure out [TS]

00:42:26   I don't know what all these words mean I [TS]

00:42:27   don't understand but what these you know [TS]

00:42:29   the settings are like auto you know [TS]

00:42:32   dynamic fresh dank like you know [TS]

00:42:41   sometimes if you look in the manual [TS]

00:42:42   they'll translate them to like the [TS]

00:42:45   actual meaning but most of the time what [TS]

00:42:46   you want to do is seek out on the [TS]

00:42:47   Internet [TS]

00:42:48   one of those forums where people spend a [TS]

00:42:50   million years adjusting their TVs and [TS]

00:42:51   people have like basically Settings [TS]

00:42:55   lists for the televisions say in order [TS]

00:42:57   to get this particular exact make and [TS]

00:42:59   model of television to pass a reasonable [TS]

00:43:02   calibration test here's all the things I [TS]

00:43:04   had to change it to and sometimes [TS]

00:43:06   they'll hopefully say here's what these [TS]

00:43:07   settings actually mean and this sounds [TS]

00:43:09   like a long video or like I got to go to [TS]

00:43:10   internet forums and scroll through like [TS]

00:43:12   web bulletin boards like it's like 2003 [TS]

00:43:14   and just find setting packs for people [TS]

00:43:17   and and download them sometimes and it's [TS]

00:43:21   like here's the thing you only have to [TS]

00:43:23   do this essentially once and then just [TS]

00:43:24   to it you know just over every few years [TS]

00:43:26   right once you get it set up and [TS]

00:43:29   calibrated according to the calibration [TS]

00:43:31   app and you and you kind of know what [TS]

00:43:33   the settings do and you know which ones [TS]

00:43:34   to how to turn everything off and what [TS]

00:43:36   the different things mean mostly all you [TS]

00:43:38   need to do is it just like contrast [TS]

00:43:40   brightness and a few other things as the [TS]

00:43:42   screen ages in it and it drifts a little [TS]

00:43:43   bit and that's really the only way to do [TS]

00:43:47   it you can't do it by looking at [TS]

00:43:48   people's faces things that skin look [TS]

00:43:49   right to you you will never do it that [TS]

00:43:51   way you can't do it by looking at video [TS]

00:43:52   and saying does that motion look right [TS]

00:43:53   to you need to use a calibration app and [TS]

00:43:56   there's tons of them out there or or you [TS]

00:43:58   know calibration DVD or calibration [TS]

00:44:00   blu-ray or whatever the hardest thing to [TS]

00:44:02   do is cadence which you probably don't [TS]

00:44:04   care about did you see if you're you [TS]

00:44:06   didn't even have a blu-ray player do you [TS]

00:44:07   like to see if you can have the ps4 yeah [TS]

00:44:10   well do you ever watch it do you ever [TS]

00:44:11   watch anything that you care is showing [TS]

00:44:13   24 frames per second kids if you don't [TS]

00:44:14   care about that you don't need to do it [TS]

00:44:15   the hardest one to do the only way I've [TS]

00:44:17   found to do that one is to use a camera [TS]

00:44:19   and configure to use a shutter that's [TS]

00:44:21   open for a second and run a pattern that [TS]

00:44:23   you know does something over the course [TS]

00:44:25   of a second and you can see if you see [TS]

00:44:26   even lighting in the one second exposure [TS]

00:44:29   if you don't see even lighting that [TS]

00:44:31   you're seeing three to pull there pull [TS]

00:44:32   down because one frame was on three [TS]

00:44:34   times the frame was showing two times [TS]

00:44:35   and the three times when it's brighter [TS]

00:44:37   the entry times one so you get this sort [TS]

00:44:38   of checkerboard bright dim bright dim [TS]

00:44:40   thing that's how you know you're getting [TS]

00:44:42   the wrong cadence true 24 frames per [TS]

00:44:44   second cadence everything will be [TS]

00:44:45   exactly equal brightness because it was [TS]

00:44:47   24 frames in each one of them as shown [TS]

00:44:48   you know for the same amount of time [TS]

00:44:49   that's the hardest to calibrate I don't [TS]

00:44:51   know how to do that with an app I just [TS]

00:44:52   know I'd do it with a camera in an app [TS]

00:44:54   but the other ones just you know get an [TS]

00:44:57   app and easiest for you you have an [TS]

00:44:59   Apple TV there are apps on the App Store [TS]

00:45:02   like thx apps or whatever like go climb [TS]

00:45:04   on download doesn't really matter which [TS]

00:45:06   one it is they all kind of have a [TS]

00:45:07   similar test pattern some of them might [TS]

00:45:08   be better than others and just spend a [TS]

00:45:11   day with it and it's important to [TS]

00:45:13   calibrate it both during the day time at [TS]

00:45:14   a night time and figure out the balance [TS]

00:45:16   of brightness especially for televisions [TS]

00:45:18   I don't know that oh it's not as bright [TS]

00:45:20   as a LED backlit LCD but I think it's [TS]

00:45:23   brighter than most plasmas but sometimes [TS]

00:45:25   you have to make a trade-off between [TS]

00:45:26   does this look right at night time [TS]

00:45:28   versus does it look right in day and [TS]

00:45:29   your television and I believe most [TS]

00:45:30   televisions have an ambient light sensor [TS]

00:45:32   they can be like don't worry about it [TS]

00:45:33   you just calibrate it and I'll use the [TS]

00:45:35   ambient light sensor to adjust the [TS]

00:45:37   brightness for you sometimes you want [TS]

00:45:38   that because it's helpful but other [TS]

00:45:40   times it'll just screw with your [TS]

00:45:41   settings so you calibrate it and then [TS]

00:45:43   night comes and the ambient light sensor [TS]

00:45:44   screws with all your settings and you [TS]

00:45:45   can't see anything in the dark scene so [TS]

00:45:47   if it's up to me I would pick a good [TS]

00:45:50   medium setting and turn off all the [TS]

00:45:53   dynamic stuff that this TV is gonna look [TS]

00:45:54   like exactly like this all the time [TS]

00:45:55   please do not dynamically adjust [TS]

00:45:57   anything but anyway it's it's a lot [TS]

00:46:00   harder than just let me go through the [TS]

00:46:01   menus and try a few things and I think [TS]

00:46:04   it's worth while I think it's worth [TS]

00:46:05   adjusting because if you do if you spend [TS]

00:46:07   the day adjusting it and you know maybe [TS]

00:46:09   like three months later or six months [TS]

00:46:12   later run through the adjustments again [TS]

00:46:14   just to make sure the thing hasn't [TS]

00:46:15   drifted and then like save the original [TS]

00:46:17   setting and like in the middle and when [TS]

00:46:19   we switch back to the other setting and [TS]

00:46:20   be like oh god it's just it's terrible [TS]

00:46:22   it's like it's like suddenly everything [TS]

00:46:24   was you know you know that it's like a [TS]

00:46:26   festival in India or something we use [TS]

00:46:28   colored powders [TS]

00:46:29   everything something everything is like [TS]

00:46:30   super oversaturated it's like it doesn't [TS]

00:46:33   it doesn't look right it doesn't look [TS]

00:46:34   natural it looks like someone has thrown [TS]

00:46:36   festive colored powders over everything [TS]

00:46:38   in your television you don't want that [TS]

00:46:39   just ask Merlin you know what the [TS]

00:46:40   powders so did you did you just fiddle [TS]

00:46:46   with controls and you like act good [TS]

00:46:48   enough and that you're never gonna [TS]

00:46:49   revisit it I at least did just finish [TS]

00:46:51   fiddle with controls and say good enough [TS]

00:46:53   I don't know if I will ever revisit it [TS]

00:46:55   or not I probably will cuz we only been [TS]

00:46:57   we only had like one night with it so [TS]

00:46:59   far to really play with it so we will [TS]

00:47:02   probably still be messing with some [TS]

00:47:03   stuff I will say though that this is [TS]

00:47:06   probably going to be an area of my life [TS]

00:47:09   that I choose the kc path add a boy the [TS]

00:47:14   path of not being very picky just one [TS]

00:47:18   it's just one day pride in your case one [TS]

00:47:21   day over the next ten years that you're [TS]

00:47:22   going on this television just spend the [TS]

00:47:24   time yeah you said it would also be one [TS]

00:47:26   day doing bootcamp on Windows to set up [TS]

00:47:28   the gaming fort if so come over you know [TS]

00:47:33   take a day off for work that's the other [TS]

00:47:35   option you can pay someone to calibrate [TS]

00:47:37   it for you but I think it's a remor you [TS]

00:47:38   just do yourself with an app but if if [TS]

00:47:40   the next time I am at your house if you [TS]

00:47:43   give me some time I will do this to your [TS]

00:47:45   television because it's a service I [TS]

00:47:47   provide how busy could you be just come [TS]

00:47:49   tomorrow at the very least make sure you [TS]

00:47:51   have the size set correctly can I at [TS]

00:47:52   least convince you to do that you mean [TS]

00:47:54   like I like instead of like fake over [TS]

00:47:55   scanning and then uh exactly like make [TS]

00:47:58   sure that it's actually showing I think [TS]

00:47:59   I have it correct I haven't like tested [TS]

00:48:01   anything like they can verify on the [TS]

00:48:02   edges but you know how you can tell [TS]

00:48:04   whether you have it correct calibration [TS]

00:48:05   now this is like the first thing they're [TS]

00:48:07   gonna do is like hey can you see all all [TS]

00:48:10   the pixels of a 1080 in the 4k picture [TS]

00:48:12   or is it cutting off the stuff around [TS]

00:48:14   the border because you have fake [TS]

00:48:15   overscan on alright send me send me the [TS]

00:48:19   name or a link to an Apple TV app that [TS]

00:48:21   do you think I should try and I will [TS]

00:48:23   give it a shot yep but I really can't I [TS]

00:48:26   don't think I'm gonna spend a day on it [TS]

00:48:28   that seems like a lot well I I say a day [TS]

00:48:30   cuz you know whatever you people but it [TS]

00:48:33   could turn into a day depending on how [TS]

00:48:34   obsessed you get about it let me guess [TS]

00:48:37   not terribly obsessed also Marco there's [TS]

00:48:39   an easy way to fix this problem stop [TS]

00:48:41   caring well [TS]

00:48:42   that's the most easy way to the second [TS]

00:48:45   most easy way and by the way I highly [TS]

00:48:47   recommend that it's it's wonderful [TS]

00:48:48   ignorance is list like AC where you [TS]

00:48:52   can't tell what's going on anyway that's [TS]

00:48:53   also that's also an easier fix but it [TS]

00:48:56   also affects other parts of your life [TS]

00:48:57   take your glasses off that's great but [TS]

00:49:00   no the the second easiest way to fix [TS]

00:49:02   this is to tell John that you have three [TS]

00:49:05   dozen bagels of various varieties that [TS]

00:49:08   are all on the approved bagel list and [TS]

00:49:10   all he has to do is come pick them up [TS]

00:49:11   from your house oh and by the way fix [TS]

00:49:13   the TV [TS]

00:49:13   John is free time you can do it yeah [TS]

00:49:15   that seems reasonable I would do it for [TS]

00:49:17   three dozen bagels problem solved [TS]

00:49:19   alright so you happy with it again I've [TS]

00:49:23   only had like one night to watch it so [TS]

00:49:24   far but so far yes it is not as dramatic [TS]

00:49:28   of a change as I would have guessed you [TS]

00:49:31   know maybe if we don't if we went all [TS]

00:49:33   the way to 65 it might have been it if [TS]

00:49:35   you went from a crappy LCD to this it [TS]

00:49:37   would be you're just used to black [TS]

00:49:38   levels that are reasonable anyway but I [TS]

00:49:40   mean I feel although I obviously have [TS]

00:49:42   many more sense into this than most [TS]

00:49:44   people but when I went from my previous [TS]

00:49:46   Panasonic Plasma to my current Panasonic [TS]

00:49:48   Plasma I was startled by how much better [TS]

00:49:50   the black levels improved Justin like [TS]

00:49:52   when you turn it on it's not like a logo [TS]

00:49:53   like or whatever on a black background [TS]

00:49:54   and I could tell wow this is you know in [TS]

00:49:58   my opinion quote unquote dramatically [TS]

00:50:00   better than my previous plasma but if [TS]

00:50:02   you had gone from LCD to OLED and you [TS]

00:50:04   turn on the LCD and it just you know [TS]

00:50:05   like whatever Samsung and then a black [TS]

00:50:07   background and this thing it turns it on [TS]

00:50:08   that says LG and a black background you [TS]

00:50:10   would be startled by exactly how black [TS]

00:50:12   it is but going from plasma maybe not as [TS]

00:50:14   startling to maybe you don't notice much [TS]

00:50:16   although I have to say your plasma is [TS]

00:50:17   old enough that it is you know still [TS]

00:50:20   several generations behind the best [TS]

00:50:22   plasmas got before like plasmas went [TS]

00:50:24   away so right because because I got so [TS]

00:50:26   big I could I couldn't upgrade yeah yeah [TS]

00:50:29   but but like yeah and also like I've [TS]

00:50:31   seen very little 4k content on it so far [TS]

00:50:33   because there just isn't that like right [TS]

00:50:35   now the only way I had to get 4k in [TS]

00:50:37   there is the built-in Netflix and Amazon [TS]

00:50:38   apps the Amazon app I had a very hard [TS]

00:50:42   time getting it to show me anything in [TS]

00:50:43   4k the Grand Tour no it showed me Grand [TS]

00:50:47   Tour in HDR but 1080p for some reason [TS]

00:50:50   like I couldn't get it to set me up to [TS]

00:50:51   4k I don't know I don't know why maybe [TS]

00:50:53   it's the settings I couldn't file it in [TS]

00:50:54   the settings couldn't find anywhere [TS]

00:50:56   I did I was able to see real 4k with [TS]

00:51:00   Netflix and well I watched a little bit [TS]

00:51:03   house of cards and so that was nice but [TS]

00:51:05   house of cards is a pretty dreary gray [TS]

00:51:08   show it's like like there's so many ways [TS]

00:51:11   yes so III wasn't able to really see [TS]

00:51:16   like you know what is like a beautiful [TS]

00:51:18   nature scene like I want like the stuff [TS]

00:51:21   they show on the demo reels and Best Buy [TS]

00:51:22   like all the beautiful nature scenes you [TS]

00:51:24   need Planet Earth just go good Wow [TS]

00:51:27   I have Planet Earth but I don't know how [TS]

00:51:29   to get it in 4k yeah the other thing is [TS]

00:51:32   that you should look go to one of those [TS]

00:51:33   viewing distance calculators it could be [TS]

00:51:35   that your viewing distance and your [TS]

00:51:38   television size is such that you're [TS]

00:51:40   gonna have difficulty discerning 4k vs [TS]

00:51:43   1080 at that combination so you're [TS]

00:51:46   saying I should have gotten the 75 yeah [TS]

00:51:48   well you have to use one of those [TS]

00:51:50   calculators to see but I was too proud [TS]

00:51:51   when I did the tape measure thing to see [TS]

00:51:52   like here's where I sit on my couch in [TS]

00:51:54   here so far away my television is yeah I [TS]

00:51:56   would have to step up to bigger than 55 [TS]

00:51:59   - to really get the benefit of 4k I mean [TS]

00:52:02   not that it matters like you don't have [TS]

00:52:03   a choice anymore essentially you're [TS]

00:52:04   really had a 4k TV whether you want or [TS]

00:52:07   not we're just fine but I'm saying is [TS]

00:52:08   that don't don't get hung up on the 4k [TS]

00:52:10   too much until you've done that [TS]

00:52:12   measurement to see can my eye even [TS]

00:52:14   resolve the difference in dot pitch [TS]

00:52:17   essentially between 1080 and 4k at this [TS]

00:52:19   size television of this distance well [TS]

00:52:22   and isn't it isn't just about like being [TS]

00:52:24   able to resolve individual pixels you [TS]

00:52:26   know like you can you can look at the [TS]

00:52:28   screen of an iPhone 7 and then next to [TS]

00:52:31   it on iphone 7 plus the 7 plus screen [TS]

00:52:33   has a much higher dpi and the 7 plus [TS]

00:52:36   screen looks better and you might not be [TS]

00:52:39   able to identify like oh that I can see [TS]

00:52:41   pixels on this one on this one I can't [TS]

00:52:43   like you can't I can't really see them [TS]

00:52:44   on either of them but 7 plus is non [TS]

00:52:46   native res though maybe you're just [TS]

00:52:48   responding to the blurring yeah maybe [TS]

00:52:52   who knows probably not but anyway so [TS]

00:52:54   like and there's also HDR the different [TS]

00:52:56   contrast ratios so like there's a huge [TS]

00:52:59   amount of improvement to picture quality [TS]

00:53:01   here that was not just the resolution [TS]

00:53:04   yeah the framerate and color range [TS]

00:53:06   potential framerate and color range [TS]

00:53:08   differences are what you want although [TS]

00:53:09   4k content especially like on Netflix is [TS]

00:53:11   also very heavily compressed so you know [TS]

00:53:14   you're gonna run out and buy a blu-ray [TS]

00:53:16   player but if you really wanted to see [TS]

00:53:17   what this television can do blu-ray is [TS]

00:53:19   your highest quality the highest quality [TS]

00:53:21   video that you can bring to your home [TS]

00:53:22   still comes on a plastic disc which is [TS]

00:53:24   sad but true but is there 4k blu-ray is [TS]

00:53:27   that a thing [TS]

00:53:28   mmm really I didn't know that can the [TS]

00:53:31   ps4 non-pro do that I have no idea I [TS]

00:53:36   don't even know this is one of these [TS]

00:53:40   teeming away from 4k as I realize I have [TS]

00:53:41   to just rip out my old set up because [TS]

00:53:43   I'm pretty sure my receiver maybe it has [TS]

00:53:45   4k passed through on like one of its [TS]

00:53:47   inputs or whatever I just have to like I [TS]

00:53:49   have to start over like 40 people in the [TS]

00:53:50   chat just said no no no no none of the [TS]

00:53:53   ps4 do this no please don't [TS]

00:53:55   oh my god no no no so apparently I have [TS]

00:53:58   to get an Xbox one s x1x [TS]

00:54:00   but I don't know what that is don't you [TS]

00:54:03   or you could just get a blu-ray player [TS]

00:54:04   they're pretty cheap and you can get [TS]

00:54:06   players or pieces of crap I hate them so [TS]

00:54:08   much I hate like blue just the the [TS]

00:54:10   blu-ray spec is the worst thing that has [TS]

00:54:12   ever happened to movies you know [TS]

00:54:13   everyone hates it but it still if you [TS]

00:54:16   want to get like a hundred and something [TS]

00:54:18   gigabytes of the highest quality video [TS]

00:54:19   of your favorite movie okay the very [TS]

00:54:22   least you got to get the blu-ray then [TS]

00:54:23   rip it on your Mac and then find a way [TS]

00:54:25   to play it losslessly off of whatever [TS]

00:54:27   device you put it on which I also still [TS]

00:54:29   haven't mastered because of the 24 [TS]

00:54:31   frames per second cadence problem as [TS]

00:54:32   previously discussed although someone [TS]

00:54:34   did mention this Plex valve for the ps3 [TS]

00:54:35   and when I revisited it and I saw Plex [TS]

00:54:38   was already installed on my ps3 I think [TS]

00:54:39   I already tried it but Plex changes fast [TS]

00:54:41   so maybe it got fixed I don't know maybe [TS]

00:54:42   the thing is like again like this fault [TS]

00:54:44   when the Apple TV 4k presumably exists I [TS]

00:54:46   have a feeling that's going to be my [TS]

00:54:48   answer to this I think I'm just gonna [TS]

00:54:49   like by 4k stuff on iTunes and call it a [TS]

00:54:52   day [TS]

00:54:53   yeah you hope they have it for sale I [TS]

00:54:54   know I really hope they have and I also [TS]

00:54:56   I kind of hope that I can like maybe [TS]

00:54:58   upgrade some things I've already bought [TS]

00:55:00   like I bought Planet Earth 2 on iTunes [TS]

00:55:02   and I know that is available on 4k [TS]

00:55:04   somewhere and you know if I I would hate [TS]

00:55:08   to have to like rebuy the whole thing at [TS]

00:55:10   and like a none discounted new price to [TS]

00:55:13   just get that but I probably would [TS]

00:55:15   anyway because it's so good that that's [TS]

00:55:18   on it like - if you really want to show [TS]

00:55:19   off 4k you need like you know bright [TS]

00:55:21   nature scenes but [TS]

00:55:22   I uh or even just I want to see the [TS]

00:55:24   Apple TV screen savers in 4k I was [TS]

00:55:27   thinking look amazing [TS]

00:55:28   I don't think the source video is 4k [TS]

00:55:30   though it's like I've watched them so [TS]

00:55:33   great I think this is 1080 like when [TS]

00:55:35   you're on Ariel the screensaver on your [TS]

00:55:37   Mac I'm always struck by how on the 5k [TS]

00:55:39   iMac anyway I'm like ooh that's blurry [TS]

00:55:40   like this looks much better I might lose [TS]

00:55:42   my TV is 1080 in my 5k iMac because you [TS]

00:55:44   know whatever giant resolution it is [TS]

00:55:46   well that doesn't mean that the source [TS]

00:55:48   is not 4k that just means that Apple is [TS]

00:55:51   not publishing more than 1080 worth of [TS]

00:55:53   you know stream yeah I understand like [TS]

00:55:55   are they are they gonna quote they're [TS]

00:55:57   gonna remaster is they gonna go back to [TS]

00:55:58   the red 8k footage or whatever this [TS]

00:56:00   stuff was taken from and and remake all [TS]

00:56:02   those videos also if you happen to see [TS]

00:56:06   the back of a truck roll by Marco from [TS]

00:56:09   what I can tell Grand Tours between 20 [TS]

00:56:11   and 30 gigs for 4k and and there are [TS]

00:56:14   trucks that haven't but how do I get [TS]

00:56:16   them onto my TV in a way that actually [TS]

00:56:18   can play 4k 4k content please don't make [TS]

00:56:21   it the Grand Tour I know for 4k old man [TS]

00:56:26   wrinkles no no I agree I agree I'm just [TS]

00:56:28   trying to think of something that that [TS]

00:56:30   you would potentially at least slightly [TS]

00:56:32   enjoy and typically as well shot and [TS]

00:56:35   pretty yes I understand your point about [TS]

00:56:36   the old man wrinkles and you're right [TS]

00:56:38   but I mean generally speaking it's it's [TS]

00:56:40   it's visually a nice-looking show well [TS]

00:56:43   anyways to get it on your TV well why [TS]

00:56:46   not do can you do or you can do 4k over [TS]

00:56:50   HDMI although usually it's 30 frames per [TS]

00:56:52   second except in this case that'd be [TS]

00:56:53   fine I mean I'm pretty sure that there [TS]

00:56:55   is a new HDMI spec that this TV supports [TS]

00:56:57   that does 4k 60 I think there you go I [TS]

00:57:08   spent the money on it instead of after I [TS]

00:57:12   got approval that I believed I had a [TS]

00:57:16   narrow window of opportunity well here's [TS]

00:57:18   the thing but what Marco did is like [TS]

00:57:20   look if any TV is gonna support all the [TS]

00:57:22   things make it the most expensive one [TS]

00:57:25   and it's essentially what you did you [TS]

00:57:26   didn't get the most most expensive only [TS]

00:57:27   afforded that weird sound bar crap and [TS]

00:57:29   everything which I agree is not a good [TS]

00:57:31   idea but that's that's really all you [TS]

00:57:33   can do the problem is though like [TS]

00:57:34   sometimes you look at them [TS]

00:57:36   most expensive one whose still doesn't [TS]

00:57:38   have support for the latest whatever [TS]

00:57:39   that's just about to come out and so [TS]

00:57:41   you're like okay I can't I can't buy a [TS]

00:57:42   TV this year I wait till next year but I [TS]

00:57:43   think you're probably safe yeah because [TS]

00:57:45   it seems like that the the 4k world has [TS]

00:57:49   has pretty much reach like the point [TS]

00:57:52   that it's safe to buy it like we'd use I [TS]

00:57:55   mean isn't a lot of people give better [TS]

00:57:59   views of this TV it's like well it's the [TS]

00:58:00   best picture Pali we've ever seen but it [TS]

00:58:02   costs a whole jillion dollars so [TS]

00:58:03   obviously it's not a barrier for you but [TS]

00:58:05   for other people's like maybe maybe wait [TS]

00:58:07   like maybe wait one more year or two [TS]

00:58:10   more years for the same quality [TS]

00:58:12   television to come down from the middle [TS]

00:58:14   of the pack or whatever right and the [TS]

00:58:16   other thing with the Smart TV stuff is [TS]

00:58:18   over the over the years a lot of that LG [TS]

00:58:20   Smart TV stuff like I don't know if they [TS]

00:58:21   weren't using enough RAM or slower [TS]

00:58:23   processors or whatever but that has [TS]

00:58:25   gotten faster too and it's like when it [TS]

00:58:27   first came out well it kind of works but [TS]

00:58:29   in two years presumably they'll put [TS]

00:58:31   better chips and their TVs and it will [TS]

00:58:32   get faster and it has so I think you [TS]

00:58:35   bought the you know the earliest you [TS]

00:58:37   could possibly buy and still get all the [TS]

00:58:40   things and all you had to sacrifice for [TS]

00:58:41   it was you know a little bit of money [TS]

00:58:42   and some yelling from your spouse we are [TS]

00:58:46   sponsored this week by audible with an [TS]

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00:59:13   flights long road trips or even your [TS]

00:59:15   commute to work every day because you [TS]

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00:59:20   true but you'd be surprised how many [TS]

00:59:22   audiobooks you can hear each year if you [TS]

00:59:25   start listening every day on your daily [TS]

00:59:27   commute and on various trips and things [TS]

00:59:29   you will see it really adds up and [TS]

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00:59:36   and genres without regret without risk [TS]

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01:00:11   thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

01:00:13   show before we leave the TV topic one [TS]

01:00:19   I'll take one other brief brief run at [TS]

01:00:24   trying to convince you / you / the [TS]

01:00:26   audience to invest in a multi-channel [TS]

01:00:31   audio solution no you think Sara's just [TS]

01:00:33   fine I know you think you don't need a [TS]

01:00:36   subwoofer and left her my channel is [TS]

01:00:38   fine I mean the way I was gonna try to [TS]

01:00:42   convince you was like to think about how [TS]

01:00:43   how concerning it is when viewing an LCD [TS]

01:00:47   screen and non-native res but that is [TS]

01:00:49   now an outdated analogy because as you [TS]

01:00:52   were just saying with the 7 plus if you [TS]

01:00:54   make the pixel small off doesn't matter [TS]

01:00:55   but there's no equivalent to making the [TS]

01:00:56   pixel small enough in the world of audio [TS]

01:00:59   so lots of these shows that you like [TS]

01:01:02   including probably house of cards have [TS]

01:01:05   5.1 mix like they have the six channels [TS]

01:01:09   of audio maybe they have seven I don't [TS]

01:01:10   know but they have they have [TS]

01:01:11   multi-channel audio that's what they're [TS]

01:01:13   putting out and some of them don't have [TS]

01:01:16   a stereo mix so you have to take that [TS]

01:01:18   5.1 and down mix it through some voodoo [TS]

01:01:20   into you know you don't be Pro Logic or [TS]

01:01:23   something into a stereo mix and that [TS]

01:01:25   that adds stuff it adds artifacts and [TS]

01:01:28   weirdnesses that are not there like [TS]

01:01:29   you're taking someone did what doesn't [TS]

01:01:32   have a stereo mix I like whenever I've [TS]

01:01:34   like rip DVDs and stuff there's always a [TS]

01:01:36   stereo track the things that fall off [TS]

01:01:39   the back of trucks sometimes on that [TS]

01:01:40   stereo mix is to give this one example [TS]

01:01:42   like most of the stuff I watch is legal [TS]

01:01:45   like almost everything I watch is on the [TS]

01:01:47   Apple TV and do I when I rip my own [TS]

01:01:50   blu-rays I don't put a stereo mix on [TS]

01:01:52   them sometimes they anime thinks nice [TS]

01:01:53   don't have stereo sometimes they'll be [TS]

01:01:54   like stereo Japanese in 5.1 English but [TS]

01:01:57   no stereo English I don't know about [TS]

01:01:59   iTunes but I'm saying it's like the 500x [TS]

01:02:01   is available right and a reasonable 5.1 [TS]

01:02:06   set up with a 5.1 mix going straight to [TS]

01:02:09   it sounds better than stereo and may if [TS]

01:02:12   you don't have places [TS]

01:02:13   speakers I can kind of understand that [TS]

01:02:15   we don't but I think you do you've got a [TS]

01:02:17   big room it's great that room let me [TS]

01:02:20   tell you about your house marker I I [TS]

01:02:22   think you can find I mean I found places [TS]

01:02:25   in my totally awful should never have [TS]

01:02:28   any kind of television a carriage house [TS]

01:02:30   weird thing it it it makes I didn't [TS]

01:02:33   think it would be a big deal here I held [TS]

01:02:35   off doing it forever I have some fairly [TS]

01:02:37   cheap cruddy 5.1 speakers it sounds so [TS]

01:02:42   much better to have dedicated left right [TS]

01:02:44   back you know center channel it's a big [TS]

01:02:49   difference I would encourage you to if [TS]

01:02:52   you I mean I know you don't care that [TS]

01:02:54   much about movies and but but these days [TS]

01:02:56   TV shows have five phone line mixes it [TS]

01:02:58   makes a difference five point I mean [TS]

01:03:00   it's like games of Thrones or something [TS]

01:03:01   a five point one mix with a subwoofer of [TS]

01:03:04   a good TV show is just plain better than [TS]

01:03:06   stereo considerate is now like you [TS]

01:03:08   you've done nothing to preclude it you [TS]

01:03:10   didn't buy a TV with a weird sound bar [TS]

01:03:11   which is like the worst of like let's [TS]

01:03:13   just forget about multi-channel and just [TS]

01:03:15   do some weird stuff up front and try to [TS]

01:03:16   fake it out I think you have the room [TS]

01:03:18   especially these very tiny speakers like [TS]

01:03:20   mine are very small like I don't know [TS]

01:03:22   big they are they're like the size of a [TS]

01:03:24   big iPhone kind of speak you're like oh [TS]

01:03:26   those can't possibly sound good they're [TS]

01:03:28   wired their passive wired you know they [TS]

01:03:30   don't need to be plugged in anymore [TS]

01:03:31   they're not Bluetooth or any sort of [TS]

01:03:33   other weird thing you can get those [TS]

01:03:36   speakers for a reasonable price and and [TS]

01:03:38   hide the subwoofer for somewhere in the [TS]

01:03:40   corner and it sounds awesome consider it [TS]

01:03:41   you know I don't think that either mark [TS]

01:03:44   Ori is denying that it's better it's not [TS]

01:03:47   that we're saying it's not better it's [TS]

01:03:49   just and I'll now I'll speak for myself [TS]

01:03:50   I I I would love to have that set up but [TS]

01:03:55   it's not worth the energy to me to make [TS]

01:03:58   it happen because to do it right I would [TS]

01:04:00   have to put like wires under the floor [TS]

01:04:01   and you know you don't always have to [TS]

01:04:04   you just have to be a little bit [TS]

01:04:05   creative like I don't have wires under [TS]

01:04:07   my floor or through my ceiling right but [TS]

01:04:10   you can you can find ways to make like [TS]

01:04:12   the wires are smaller than you think [TS]

01:04:13   they are and you can be creative with [TS]

01:04:15   where you route them and I don't think [TS]

01:04:17   Marco would even have to be that [TS]

01:04:18   creative and worst case Marco can throw [TS]

01:04:20   money at this problem and actually get [TS]

01:04:22   wireless ones because [TS]

01:04:23   then you know what to worry about it [TS]

01:04:24   like if you if you want to spend more [TS]

01:04:26   money than I was willing to spend on it [TS]

01:04:27   cuz I was I was like I'm not gonna [TS]

01:04:29   spending a lot of money on a 5.1 system [TS]

01:04:30   I don't even know if I like this but [TS]

01:04:31   since we're getting all this stuff I [TS]

01:04:33   might as well try and I bought like the [TS]

01:04:34   cheapest one I possibly could it was [TS]

01:04:35   well rated you know if you don't want it [TS]

01:04:37   if you'd want to spend a couple hundred [TS]

01:04:38   bucks and get six speakers and a [TS]

01:04:41   subwoofer do this and I did that and I [TS]

01:04:44   was amazed and they're very small and so [TS]

01:04:46   I'm not planning on replacing them with [TS]

01:04:47   fancier more expensive ones but Markos [TS]

01:04:50   excuse was he was tired of hooking up [TS]

01:04:51   all that stuff moving from apartment [TS]

01:04:53   apartment he's been in this house for a [TS]

01:04:54   long time now so that excuse doesn't [TS]

01:04:55   work doesn't work doesn't work in his [TS]

01:04:58   room but you know again this would take [TS]

01:05:01   more than a day I feel awesome so why [TS]

01:05:04   are routes where to put them in places [TS]

01:05:06   where you wouldn't notice them and hops [TS]

01:05:08   wouldn't eat them and it would be just [TS]

01:05:10   fine doesn't eat speakers my dog eats [TS]

01:05:14   everything so now I'm mapping my dog on [TS]

01:05:17   to all dogs [TS]

01:05:18   you can't put wires and a house dog [TS]

01:05:19   leave them hops don't lick them yeah [TS]

01:05:23   house will look at them and back away [TS]

01:05:25   slowly because he's scared of them so [TS]

01:05:28   yeah I mean and in case he's right I [TS]

01:05:31   never said that surround is not good or [TS]

01:05:34   better like surround I had surround for [TS]

01:05:37   a long time granite this was a long time [TS]

01:05:39   ago [TS]

01:05:40   you know I stop hooking up the surround [TS]

01:05:42   speakers at least 10 years ago and the [TS]

01:05:46   the speaker set that they were part of I [TS]

01:05:48   don't even own anymore so it died long [TS]

01:05:52   ago [TS]

01:05:53   so I know it's I know it's good but [TS]

01:05:56   again I'm gonna have to pull a KC here [TS]

01:05:58   and say like I just don't care like [TS]

01:06:01   because most of the benefit is for [TS]

01:06:04   movies but TV shows are in 5.1 now so [TS]

01:06:07   I'm saying no I know but like what I [TS]

01:06:11   care about is the sound should sound [TS]

01:06:14   good and clear and it should be usable [TS]

01:06:18   to make to fill the room with music when [TS]

01:06:21   I want music in the room and a standard [TS]

01:06:23   stereo set works great for that I should [TS]

01:06:26   also point out I don't have a receiver [TS]

01:06:30   I Drive the speaker's currently with a [TS]

01:06:32   stereo with a little tiny stereo speaker [TS]

01:06:35   amp that is about the [TS]

01:06:37   size of like four decks of cards stacked [TS]

01:06:39   like it's a really small speaker ramp [TS]

01:06:41   one of these little like class D things [TS]

01:06:43   and it's great and it's it has a remote [TS]

01:06:47   support so the Apple TV controls the [TS]

01:06:49   volume on it like there it's remote [TS]

01:06:50   Clare on the IR thing like it's a great [TS]

01:06:53   simple setup the TV stand that we have [TS]

01:06:56   is a non-negotiable piece of furniture [TS]

01:07:00   with the Historical Society discussions [TS]

01:07:03   are ongoing with the Historical [TS]

01:07:04   Commission receiver there is no receiver [TS]

01:07:08   that exists that I have been able to [TS]

01:07:10   find that will fit in this stand what I [TS]

01:07:12   make a receiver the same size and shape [TS]

01:07:14   as say an old Bell Telephone even the [TS]

01:07:19   low end receivers have these giant cases [TS]

01:07:22   now because they use the same case [TS]

01:07:24   design whether you have like two or [TS]

01:07:26   seven channels they just put like [TS]

01:07:27   different numbers of cards in them so I [TS]

01:07:29   think the solution here that we've [TS]

01:07:31   learned is I just need to install a [TS]

01:07:33   surround system and a receiver in the [TS]

01:07:35   beach house and then have Tiff's watch a [TS]

01:07:37   movie on it late at night and then [TS]

01:07:38   she'll send you a text it says okay we [TS]

01:07:39   can get a receiver maybe yeah well but [TS]

01:07:43   but yeah so yeah I am totally fine with [TS]

01:07:48   our basic stereo setup it's a really [TS]

01:07:51   good stereo setup because the speakers [TS]

01:07:53   are my one of my favorites the paradigm [TS]

01:07:56   Adams [TS]

01:07:56   I love the paradigm atom speakers [TS]

01:07:59   because they're like 200 bucks each so [TS]

01:08:01   it's like about 400 bucks a pair and [TS]

01:08:02   they are the best bookshelf speakers I [TS]

01:08:05   have ever heard and I've heard many that [TS]

01:08:07   it costs way more than that and they [TS]

01:08:09   don't sound better like the the Adams [TS]

01:08:11   embarrass everything else I've ever [TS]

01:08:13   tried like they were just so damn good [TS]

01:08:15   you can use them as your left and right [TS]

01:08:17   channel and then only by the backs and [TS]

01:08:19   the center and it's up over here's the [TS]

01:08:21   problem now the new TV is just bigger [TS]

01:08:24   enough that the Adams no longer fit on [TS]

01:08:27   the stand next to us so I have to either [TS]

01:08:31   get those you know a little pole speaker [TS]

01:08:33   stands for them which I don't love that [TS]

01:08:35   at that option because that seemed like [TS]

01:08:37   it would be you know to me to get [TS]

01:08:39   something top-heavy in a house that [TS]

01:08:41   often has children running around and it [TS]

01:08:42   does not seem like a good idea so I [TS]

01:08:45   don't love that option also those stands [TS]

01:08:47   are really expensive like and you can [TS]

01:08:49   get [TS]

01:08:50   get new speakers for not not that much [TS]

01:08:52   more money than those stands [TS]

01:08:55   so I'm looking into for standing options [TS]

01:08:57   now but it's very early in the search [TS]

01:08:59   just screw some tiny little wings on to [TS]

01:09:02   the edge but yeah right well if I can [TS]

01:09:08   somehow like drag them behind a truck [TS]

01:09:10   for a while first and like spray-paint [TS]

01:09:12   them in weird ways it might distressed [TS]

01:09:14   yeah yeah distress it in like the most [TS]

01:09:16   hipster way possible and then it'll look [TS]

01:09:18   right [TS]

01:09:18   learned about that on the upcoming [TS]

01:09:20   directives just for you awesome but yeah [TS]

01:09:23   so I'm now looking into like floor [TS]

01:09:25   speakers but I'm probably just gonna get [TS]

01:09:27   more paradigm you know paradigm makes [TS]

01:09:30   floor speakers too and they're similarly [TS]

01:09:32   from what all the reviews say they are [TS]

01:09:33   amazing values an amazing sound quality [TS]

01:09:36   foot for what you're paying so so I take [TS]

01:09:38   it you didn't like measure the top [TS]

01:09:40   surface of your table and the width of [TS]

01:09:42   the television you didn't do this math [TS]

01:09:43   beforehand so you got it you put took it [TS]

01:09:45   out of the box you put it on there okay [TS]

01:09:46   let me put the speakers back on you're [TS]

01:09:48   like oh they don't fit pretty much I I [TS]

01:09:50   did the math a year ago like with the [TS]

01:09:52   TVs that were out of your eye when I [TS]

01:09:54   first started when I was research I did [TS]

01:09:56   it then and I knew then that I could get [TS]

01:09:59   a 55 inch TV and that it would intrude [TS]

01:10:02   roughly halfway into my speaker than [TS]

01:10:04   either side so I knew this was never see [TS]

01:10:09   I've seen this in a lot of people's [TS]

01:10:10   houses to possible solutions I've seen [TS]

01:10:13   in real life one put the speaker [TS]

01:10:15   slightly behind the television to put [TS]

01:10:17   the speakers in front of the television [TS]

01:10:18   I seen both those solutions both of them [TS]

01:10:20   boggle my mind those are both terrible [TS]

01:10:22   solutions everything like this is fine [TS]

01:10:24   like and I can't decide which is worse [TS]

01:10:26   blocking the television or having [TS]

01:10:28   speakers firing directly into the back [TS]

01:10:31   that's I don't have a hard time figuring [TS]

01:10:33   that out too I think I mean either way [TS]

01:10:36   you're making something stuck terribly [TS]

01:10:38   so yeah I don't know these bookshelf [TS]

01:10:41   speakers that you love are they super [TS]

01:10:42   expensive let me look at them no the 200 [TS]

01:10:44   bucks each so a pair of four bookshelf [TS]

01:10:50   speakers made by a company that had that [TS]

01:10:53   is like respected in the world of [TS]

01:10:54   speakers 400 bucks for a pair is not [TS]

01:10:57   incredibly expensive my whole set of [TS]

01:10:59   speakers was like four hundred dollars [TS]

01:11:01   it's six speakers for that price [TS]

01:11:04   speakers our speakers are kind of like [TS]

01:11:06   watches unfortunately we're like you [TS]

01:11:08   think if you're not like a watch person [TS]

01:11:11   you don't really know how expensive [TS]

01:11:12   watches are and speakers or licensed [TS]

01:11:14   because how much could they cost like [TS]

01:11:15   what just filled with diamonds I don't [TS]

01:11:18   yeah and those you're right those are [TS]

01:11:20   cheeping the grand scheme of things but [TS]

01:11:21   I was thinking bookshelf speakers and [TS]

01:11:23   Marco likes them maybe they're you know [TS]

01:11:25   50 bucks each nope nope sorry [TS]

01:11:28   but they're come on first four good [TS]

01:11:31   speakers that is not ridiculous it's not [TS]

01:11:34   you're right it's not it's not like [TS]

01:11:35   they're $900 each but like when I hear [TS]

01:11:37   bookshelf speakers I start thinking like [TS]

01:11:39   oh this is for people who don't want to [TS]

01:11:41   spend big money on fancy speakers so no [TS]

01:11:44   because I and I have I've I've had two [TS]

01:11:46   pairs over the years the second pair of [TS]

01:11:47   them is on my desk these are like my [TS]

01:11:49   computer speakers because computer [TS]

01:11:51   speakers are the biggest ripoff in the [TS]

01:11:52   world they are the worst like my entire [TS]

01:11:55   time using a computer ever since I have [TS]

01:11:57   had a sound card I have used regular [TS]

01:12:00   speakers instead of computer figures [TS]

01:12:02   every time I've tried computer speakers [TS]

01:12:04   I have been dramatically disappointed by [TS]

01:12:06   how crappy they sound compared to how [TS]

01:12:08   much they cost [TS]

01:12:08   regular even cheap regular speakers like [TS]

01:12:11   the firt when I first started doing this [TS]

01:12:13   I just had like it was like a little [TS]

01:12:15   pioneer integrated stereo thing that I [TS]

01:12:17   just had like in my room like like you [TS]

01:12:19   know with like the two speakers and the [TS]

01:12:21   big unit in the middle that has like the [TS]

01:12:22   cassette deck and the CD player [TS]

01:12:23   all-in-one and the whole thing was [TS]

01:12:25   probably like 200 bucks I just used [TS]

01:12:26   those speakers as my computer speakers [TS]

01:12:28   and that sounded a million times better [TS]

01:12:30   than it has I've ever heard going [TS]

01:12:33   through the big receiver ething yeah the [TS]

01:12:35   big yeah and the ones my desk now I have [TS]

01:12:38   a second one of those tiny little like [TS]

01:12:40   Class D desktop amplifiers and that [TS]

01:12:43   amplifies them just fine like there are [TS]

01:12:45   better ways to amplify speakers but [TS]

01:12:47   they're all much larger and so you know [TS]

01:12:49   but you can you can do it [TS]

01:12:51   i-i've tried powered monitors and [TS]

01:12:53   powered monitors sound okay but these [TS]

01:12:57   paradigm atoms again they just kick [TS]

01:12:59   their butts like it's not even close [TS]

01:13:00   they think you sound a million times [TS]

01:13:02   better and like a pair of powered [TS]

01:13:05   desktop speakers is not that much [TS]

01:13:07   cheaper than then these paradigms like [TS]

01:13:10   you're getting into the 400 our [TS]

01:13:12   territory pretty fast with those and [TS]

01:13:14   they really don't sound good [TS]

01:13:16   I have never I even good one [TS]

01:13:17   like like from brands like like clips [TS]

01:13:19   and KEF and and bows and B and O like [TS]

01:13:23   you know brands that like have a lot of [TS]

01:13:25   fans and I know I know I shouldn't put [TS]

01:13:27   Bozeman list I'm sorry but it has a lot [TS]

01:13:29   of fans like I've tried a lot of these [TS]

01:13:32   at some in some cases I've bought and [TS]

01:13:33   returned them cuz they were so bad like [TS]

01:13:35   for whatever reason there there seems to [TS]

01:13:38   be very little correlation between how [TS]

01:13:41   much you pay for a set of speakers and [TS]

01:13:43   how good they sound and you know [TS]

01:13:45   everyone has like their one thing that [TS]

01:13:47   oh I bought this one pair of these like [TS]

01:13:49   60 years ago they sound great and and [TS]

01:13:51   that's like once you find that it's [TS]

01:13:53   really hard like to try anything else [TS]

01:13:55   because you know you try something else [TS]

01:13:58   and you get and it's and it's on the you [TS]

01:14:00   know worst end of the spectrum I get the [TS]

01:14:02   feeling you can you know anybody can [TS]

01:14:04   slap together some drivers into a box of [TS]

01:14:06   particle board and say they're a speaker [TS]

01:14:08   manufacturer and it shows I've got I've [TS]

01:14:12   been surprised by the speaker system i [TS]

01:14:14   got some logitech speaker you know [TS]

01:14:15   typical desktop speaker computer [TS]

01:14:17   speakers for my playstation 4 and i've [TS]

01:14:20   gone through a series of quote-unquote [TS]

01:14:21   computer speakers on my mac and they all [TS]

01:14:23   sound terrible including the ones that [TS]

01:14:24   i'm currently using but like I don't I [TS]

01:14:25   don't use them for anything they're fine [TS]

01:14:27   like it you know they're they were cheap [TS]

01:14:29   and they're okay [TS]

01:14:31   but for the ps4 again I'm playing games [TS]

01:14:33   there which is mostly like gunfire and [TS]

01:14:35   explosions I was surprised that how good [TS]

01:14:39   the two point one set up like you know [TS]

01:14:42   two stereo speakers and a comically [TS]

01:14:44   large subwoofer to get that all those [TS]

01:14:47   explosions to sound good [TS]

01:14:48   makes a big difference when you know for [TS]

01:14:50   a ps4 that you're not playing on a TV [TS]

01:14:52   you have a gaming monitor you know 4k [TS]

01:14:54   gaming monitor 2.1 logitech speaker [TS]

01:14:56   system and a ps4 so much more impressive [TS]

01:15:00   than just a ps4 hooked up to someone's [TS]

01:15:03   car DLC DTV playing through the TV [TS]

01:15:05   speakers I don't like an wholeheartedly [TS]

01:15:09   recommend the product because it's kind [TS]

01:15:10   of expensive and the power button flakes [TS]

01:15:12   out but I did buy a second when I got my [TS]

01:15:15   ps4 Pro and I shifted by old ps4 up to [TS]

01:15:18   my son's room I got a second one of the [TS]

01:15:21   exact same speaker size even knowing [TS]

01:15:23   that the power button is going to [TS]

01:15:24   eventually flake out you just have to [TS]

01:15:26   wait at the right way and then it's [TS]

01:15:28   but that is saying something that like [TS]

01:15:29   if you're willing to like rebuy the same [TS]

01:15:31   thing a second time that that that does [TS]

01:15:33   say a lot yeah and and again this is [TS]

01:15:35   after years and years of terrible [TS]

01:15:37   computer speakers often by Logitech [TS]

01:15:39   often by the same exact company and I [TS]

01:15:41   you know I realize how much I like them [TS]

01:15:42   and I went to get speakers I'm like oh [TS]

01:15:44   no what if they don't make these anymore [TS]

01:15:45   that's always the problem with computer [TS]

01:15:46   speakers like if you find a set that you [TS]

01:15:47   like and they break you they don't make [TS]

01:15:49   them anymore so but they do still make [TS]

01:15:51   them and I bought a second one and you [TS]

01:15:54   know one mind eventually break I will [TS]

01:15:55   scavenge the the new ones from my son's [TS]

01:15:58   room and use them you know it's awesome [TS]

01:15:59   about buying regular speakers first of [TS]

01:16:01   all they're for sale for more than like [TS]

01:16:02   a year and then second of all they last [TS]

01:16:05   forever they really you know you can get [TS]

01:16:07   you can get speakers that last 50 years [TS]

01:16:09   like you know eventually the cones often [TS]

01:16:11   dry out and have problems but like they [TS]

01:16:13   last a long time because they're just [TS]

01:16:16   passive devices with that they don't [TS]

01:16:18   they don't at least if they're usually [TS]

01:16:20   if they're really good there's no [TS]

01:16:21   electronics in them you know they're you [TS]

01:16:24   know there's a there's a there are [TS]

01:16:25   circuits inside of them there's like the [TS]

01:16:26   crossovers and stuff but there's not [TS]

01:16:28   much there and they just last and this [TS]

01:16:32   it's it's like the Mac Pro thing like [TS]

01:16:34   you know like my iMac is having all [TS]

01:16:36   these problems now I'm gonna have to [TS]

01:16:37   like upgrade the entire computer if I [TS]

01:16:40   want an upgrade but like you got to do [TS]

01:16:41   some pair of speakers and if the amp [TS]

01:16:44   flakes out you can just replace the amp [TS]

01:16:46   if you want like bigger speakers but you [TS]

01:16:49   already have an awesome amp you can [TS]

01:16:50   replace the speaker it's like having [TS]

01:16:52   components is turns out really nice [TS]

01:16:54   which like all of our parents discovered [TS]

01:16:56   40 years ago yeah speaking of my dad who [TS]

01:17:00   is a huge stereo file and you know this [TS]

01:17:03   because he believes in vinyl anyway [TS]

01:17:04   he he has a set of Dahlquist speakers [TS]

01:17:07   that I he tells me were in his dorm room [TS]

01:17:10   when obviously he was effectively a kid [TS]

01:17:13   now I'm sure the cones have been [TS]

01:17:16   replaced on these you know and [TS]

01:17:17   presumably whatever minimal electronics [TS]

01:17:19   are in there have been replaced from [TS]

01:17:21   time to time but to your point Marco I [TS]

01:17:23   mean these are 40 ish year old speakers [TS]

01:17:26   that he is still using to this day not [TS]

01:17:29   as not as his primary speakers on his [TS]

01:17:31   nice stereo but as as kind of as the [TS]

01:17:34   surround sound system in his accessory [TS]

01:17:36   setup if you will his his second setup [TS]

01:17:40   yeah this stuff lasts forever nothing I [TS]

01:17:43   find about speakers as I was there very [TS]

01:17:45   often ugly like that I wouldn't want [TS]

01:17:48   them sitting next to my computer for TV [TS]

01:17:50   usually you can hide them but some of [TS]

01:17:51   them especially the the fancier they get [TS]

01:17:54   like even the boring ones they're just [TS]

01:17:55   too just plain ugly I don't I don't know [TS]

01:17:57   why speakers need to look like anything [TS]

01:18:00   except for like the world's most [TS]

01:18:01   understated understated rectangular [TS]

01:18:03   solid like why do they need to be weird [TS]

01:18:05   shaped or have things poking out of them [TS]

01:18:08   or be shiny or draw any attention to [TS]

01:18:10   themselves at all so and even the ones [TS]

01:18:14   that are supposed to look like boring [TS]

01:18:15   little cubes always have some little [TS]

01:18:17   flourish or chamfer or other thing to [TS]

01:18:21   make the boxes look weird and I wish [TS]

01:18:23   they didn't do that well there's another [TS]

01:18:26   reason why I love my paradigm atoms [TS]

01:18:27   because they come with you know they [TS]

01:18:30   like the black cloth grills that you can [TS]

01:18:33   just stick on there and then it just [TS]

01:18:35   looks like a boring speaker like it's a [TS]

01:18:38   black cloth rectangle sticking on the [TS]

01:18:41   front of a wooden rectangular solid like [TS]

01:18:43   that's it it's very simple it comes in [TS]

01:18:45   like four different colors like it is [TS]

01:18:48   again it's possible to do great speakers [TS]

01:18:50   it's got the wood grain if I'm looking [TS]

01:18:52   at the right one here I can't cuz I [TS]

01:18:54   wouldn't I would not put that next to my [TS]

01:18:56   computer I have it next my computer it [TS]

01:18:58   looks great and you can also get it [TS]

01:18:59   without you can get it in different [TS]

01:19:00   colors different finishes [TS]

01:19:01   yeah they look nice with them without [TS]

01:19:03   the speaker converse in the front very [TS]

01:19:05   simple that would be fine but and they [TS]

01:19:07   are just normal rectangular solids but [TS]

01:19:09   the wood grain I don't like that's part [TS]

01:19:12   of the reason my current what do they [TS]

01:19:13   use I don't know what the hell they are [TS]

01:19:14   they're probably like creative yeah they [TS]

01:19:16   are Korea this is terrible creative [TS]

01:19:18   speakers I have hooked up to my computer [TS]

01:19:20   they look nice no sounds right but they [TS]

01:19:23   look okay I will say one of the most [TS]

01:19:27   attractive speaker things I've ever seen [TS]

01:19:29   was computer speakers it was what what [TS]

01:19:31   was John you would know like the those [TS]

01:19:33   clear plastic carbon-carbon sticks with [TS]

01:19:35   the big like lamp thing as the [TS]

01:19:37   subwoofers sound sex with the big [TS]

01:19:38   jellyfish subwoofer yeah yeah I like the [TS]

01:19:41   subwoofer yeah that looked cool like the [TS]

01:19:44   subwoofer did look like a jellyfish and [TS]

01:19:46   it was really neat and clear or whatever [TS]

01:19:47   but the sound sticks [TS]

01:19:50   and like I said like too many holes well [TS]

01:19:55   I still don't see I'm not even sure I've [TS]

01:19:58   ever even heard those so I have no idea [TS]

01:19:59   how they sound but I honestly think like [TS]

01:20:00   that should go down in history of [TS]

01:20:03   computer industrial design like that was [TS]

01:20:05   so it's such a great design [TS]

01:20:07   I like the cube speakers better in terms [TS]

01:20:09   of visuals like you remember the g4 cube [TS]

01:20:11   came with like these two little round [TS]

01:20:14   balls they were just a single single [TS]

01:20:17   little cone and the same kind of the [TS]

01:20:19   visual language of clear but yeah and [TS]

01:20:21   you can see the electronics I thought oh [TS]

01:20:23   I think I mean yeah they nicely match a [TS]

01:20:26   thing to sound sick so we just seemed [TS]

01:20:27   seems so they look like giant octopus [TS]

01:20:30   tentacles on it I know people I think I [TS]

01:20:32   think is Dan Morin I think some people [TS]

01:20:34   we both know got those back in the day [TS]

01:20:37   and still use them as laughing to your [TS]

01:20:38   point about component stuff it's like oh [TS]

01:20:40   you know what other stuff do you have [TS]

01:20:42   from the era of the g4 cube that you're [TS]

01:20:43   still using but if they're just plain [TS]

01:20:45   old speakers you can just keep using [TS]

01:20:46   them because their speakers and they [TS]

01:20:48   work with every Mac that you buy and [TS]

01:20:49   everything works out it something like [TS]

01:20:52   so many so many of like and even you [TS]

01:20:54   know getting back to receivers and stuff [TS]

01:20:55   so many of the receivers these days like [TS]

01:20:58   the receiver is integrating certain HDMI [TS]

01:21:01   standards that go out of date quickly [TS]

01:21:03   certain like you know maybe it has like [TS]

01:21:05   network streaming standards maybe it has [TS]

01:21:07   Bluetooth or airplay or integrates with [TS]

01:21:11   like Pandora I mean even even my my new [TS]

01:21:13   TV now has dedicated hardware buttons in [TS]

01:21:16   the remote for and ones on video and [TS]

01:21:18   Netflix and that's where we're not gonna [TS]

01:21:20   age that well in the grand scheme of [TS]

01:21:21   things if TV still last 10 years and you [TS]

01:21:25   know it's it's nice to keep things you [TS]

01:21:26   know it you give up on some of the cool [TS]

01:21:29   integration of like having things all in [TS]

01:21:31   one that this one this one box does all [TS]

01:21:33   these different things and has [TS]

01:21:34   integrated you know Bluetooth Wi-Fi all [TS]

01:21:36   this stuff you give up on some of that [TS]

01:21:38   if you go the separate component route [TS]

01:21:39   there's usually still the way to achieve [TS]

01:21:41   it use many like multiple parts but I [TS]

01:21:44   feel like long term you're setting [TS]

01:21:46   yourself up for a better outcome and [TS]

01:21:48   this is again why I really want to wait [TS]

01:21:51   for the Mac Perot tower rather than [TS]

01:21:53   buying the iMac Pro this this winter [TS]

01:21:56   because I like having separate [TS]

01:21:58   components because most of the time in [TS]

01:22:00   my life I have done things that way and [TS]

01:22:02   the few times I had [TS]

01:22:03   I usually come to regret it but you [TS]

01:22:06   won't you buy that like from so the [TS]

01:22:07   sound sticks are still available by the [TS]

01:22:09   way they're still for sale this sounds [TS]

01:22:11   six finally up to three sound sticks [TS]

01:22:12   three by Harman Kardon really 170 bucks [TS]

01:22:15   you can order them right now that's [TS]

01:22:17   actually not that expensive for what [TS]

01:22:19   that is yeah I mean I think they look [TS]

01:22:21   cool I've never heard them so I can't [TS]

01:22:22   vouch for how good they sound compared [TS]

01:22:24   to anything I mean you can look at I [TS]

01:22:26   mean you can see the components like [TS]

01:22:27   well there's that size driver for the [TS]

01:22:29   subwoofer and there's these little tiny [TS]

01:22:30   drivers for the left and right speakers [TS]

01:22:33   and it is what it is the other thing is [TS]

01:22:35   I have a feelin this is probably a [TS]

01:22:36   design that looks better in pictures [TS]

01:22:38   than it does like in real life covered [TS]

01:22:40   in dust and with a thing with the [TS]

01:22:41   plastic faded and cracked and scratch [TS]

01:22:43   the plastic holds up pretty well but I [TS]

01:22:45   just don't like how it even looks in [TS]

01:22:46   pictures like I like the subwoofer I [TS]

01:22:47   think that's a cute design but the sound [TS]

01:22:49   sticks they look like octopus tentacles [TS]

01:22:51   and I don't like the little cheerio [TS]

01:22:52   life's a life preserver bass thingies [TS]

01:22:55   don't like it yeah I guess those little [TS]

01:22:57   bases aren't that great either yeah you [TS]

01:22:59   know you're ruining this for me this is [TS]

01:23:00   what do I do if I can just get the [TS]

01:23:02   subwoofer and keep on your destiny [TS]

01:23:03   curiosity but filled with M&Ms pour it [TS]

01:23:05   down the little you know the other funny [TS]

01:23:08   part two is like you put subwoofers [TS]

01:23:10   usually out of sight but the floor like [TS]

01:23:13   you're not supposed to have is anywhere [TS]

01:23:15   where it's visible but anything about [TS]

01:23:16   some horses you can put them anywhere [TS]

01:23:18   who's to say you know you put them out [TS]

01:23:19   of cycles you know these big black you [TS]

01:23:21   know cubes that you just want to get rid [TS]

01:23:23   of but this one is so nice put it on [TS]

01:23:24   your desk and you know because humans [TS]

01:23:26   cannot localize low frequency sound as [TS]

01:23:28   well as high frequency sound does matter [TS]

01:23:32   where you put it I will say on that [TS]

01:23:34   though I greatly prefer just big [TS]

01:23:37   speakers that have their own woofers [TS]

01:23:39   that can produce the low frequencies [TS]

01:23:41   well enough to the sound of little [TS]

01:23:44   satellites and then one sub woofer [TS]

01:23:45   somewhere in the room like I've heard [TS]

01:23:47   this frame before and I also I think [TS]

01:23:49   your opinion this is based on some very [TS]

01:23:51   terrible 5.1 setups early on I don't [TS]

01:23:53   know my opinion this is based on liking [TS]

01:23:55   music that's what it is really like if I [TS]

01:23:57   totally agree with you that if what [TS]

01:23:59   you're optimizing for is movies and TV [TS]

01:24:01   sound then having a subwoofer is cooler [TS]

01:24:05   like it sounds cooler that way like you [TS]

01:24:06   get more like the big booms from [TS]

01:24:08   explosions and stuff like that but I [TS]

01:24:10   don't like the way music sounds through [TS]

01:24:12   that kind of setup I think it sounds [TS]

01:24:14   weird and unnatural and not how that was [TS]

01:24:16   in 10 [TS]

01:24:17   I would rather have speakers that are [TS]

01:24:19   pretty good at TV and movies and and [TS]

01:24:23   also really great at music then the [TS]

01:24:25   opposite we gotta get you yeah I mean [TS]

01:24:28   you can choose your left and rights to [TS]

01:24:29   be standalone left or right channels [TS]

01:24:31   that can reduce all the frequencies I [TS]

01:24:33   mean your receiver usually controls like [TS]

01:24:34   you can control like the crossover like [TS]

01:24:36   what you know you could shift the cutoff [TS]

01:24:39   of which frequencies go to the subwoofer [TS]

01:24:40   for mixes that don't separately address [TS]

01:24:43   it but if you've got left and right [TS]

01:24:44   channel speakers that can handle all the [TS]

01:24:46   frequencies you don't have to send [TS]

01:24:47   anything does that whatever in the case [TS]

01:24:49   where you're just playing music although [TS]

01:24:50   multi-channel music is a thing over [TS]

01:24:52   Jason Snell's house I heard was a [TS]

01:24:54   crowded house 5.1 mix it's not [TS]

01:24:57   everybody's thing but it is a thing [TS]

01:24:59   thanks folks for three sponsors this [TS]

01:25:01   week betterment audible and Squarespace [TS]

01:25:03   and we will see you next week [TS]

01:25:12   [Music] [TS]

01:25:18   johnny research [TS]

01:25:21   BC would [TS]

01:25:23   [Music] [TS]

01:25:32   [Music] [TS]

01:25:38   [Music] [TS]

01:25:42   i SS see you [TS]

01:25:49   [Music] [TS]

01:26:01   [Music] [TS]

01:26:08   [Music] [TS]

01:26:10   we have a multi-channel vinyl 5.1 well [TS]

01:26:14   they don't even have stereo you just get [TS]

01:26:16   yours and you play them all at the same [TS]

01:26:18   time like it was The Flaming Lips did a [TS]

01:26:22   thing where you buy wasn't it you buy [TS]

01:26:24   two vinyl albums and you play them both [TS]

01:26:25   at the same time anyway let me like what [TS]

01:26:33   I like [TS]

01:26:34   mm-hmm let people enjoy things John I'm [TS]

01:26:37   telling you you might enjoy a thing [TS]

01:26:40   where you get to play two records at the [TS]

01:26:41   same time double the fun [TS]

01:26:43   right it's like Doublemint gum yeah is [TS]

01:26:45   that part of the challenge is that it's [TS]

01:26:46   a you know you like the ceremony now you [TS]

01:26:48   have a physical challenge where you have [TS]

01:26:50   to drop the needle hit the drop the [TS]

01:26:52   needle on the beginning track and [TS]

01:26:53   exactly the same spot exactly the right [TS]

01:26:55   time because you don't want the music to [TS]

01:26:56   be out of sync was it uh waves arica was [TS]

01:27:01   a double dare that had physical [TS]

01:27:02   challenges they actually phrased it as a [TS]

01:27:04   physical challenge that was that was [TS]

01:27:05   double dare I was gonna make that [TS]

01:27:07   reference but I didn't bother but there [TS]

01:27:08   you go you got it you proud of me John I [TS]

01:27:10   am all I want is for you to be proud of [TS]

01:27:12   me daddy did you read it story by the [TS]

01:27:14   way uh the world out there and and there [TS]

01:27:17   was the big like you know inside story [TS]

01:27:20   of double dare I think there was a [TS]

01:27:21   separate story about like the video [TS]

01:27:22   phone that you get as a prize and double [TS]

01:27:24   their I know exactly the video phone [TS]

01:27:27   you're thinking of I don't recall having [TS]

01:27:29   seen the story about that but I did read [TS]

01:27:33   and freaking loved the oral history of [TS]

01:27:37   double dare which was which was actually [TS]

01:27:39   written which is a little weird I mean I [TS]

01:27:41   guess was it was um it was a real [TS]

01:27:44   mystery do you exactly but nevertheless [TS]

01:27:46   it was I think there might have been an [TS]

01:27:49   Associated like brief podcast which I [TS]

01:27:50   never bothered listening to me that's [TS]

01:27:52   what it was it doesn't matter if you are [TS]

01:27:54   a child or if you were a child of the [TS]

01:27:56   80s and watch Doubleday or on [TS]

01:27:57   Nickelodeon this is absolutely worth [TS]

01:28:00   your time it was a fantastic read and [TS]

01:28:03   now you have to find that link for the [TS]

01:28:04   show notes I already have it this is my [TS]

01:28:07   other job other than being chief [TS]

01:28:08   summarizer in chief I love double dare [TS]

01:28:10   the old air was the best and that's the [TS]

01:28:13   thing like I've actually said to people [TS]

01:28:14   I don't think I've ever said it on the [TS]

01:28:15   show but I've said to people in in real [TS]

01:28:18   life because apparently this isn't real [TS]

01:28:20   but anyway do you remember [TS]

01:28:22   that when you were a kid the grand prize [TS]

01:28:25   from double-dare was as already [TS]

01:28:28   mentioned a video telephone where you [TS]

01:28:30   would get two of them I believe and he [TS]

01:28:32   could put one in one person's house and [TS]

01:28:33   one in the other person's house and you [TS]

01:28:35   would get like a postage stamp and [TS]

01:28:37   that's not much of an exaggeration a [TS]

01:28:39   postage stamp-sized image that had a [TS]

01:28:42   frame rate of like one new image every [TS]

01:28:44   five to ten seconds in that blew my mind [TS]

01:28:49   when I was ten or whatever and now in my [TS]

01:28:53   pocket I can have an HD call with anyone [TS]

01:28:57   on the planet anywhere I am I mean the [TS]

01:29:00   future is amazing you know what else is [TS]

01:29:02   amazing about the Future speaking of net [TS]

01:29:04   neutrality that neutrality is pretty [TS]

01:29:06   mean isn't so easy for it I think it [TS]

01:29:08   would be amazing if we maintain it I [TS]

01:29:10   think I'm not sure the future is gonna [TS]

01:29:11   be so amazing in that department so true [TS]

01:29:14   so what's going on with this why are we [TS]

01:29:16   why do we care about that today as we [TS]

01:29:18   record on Wednesday the 12th I go [TS]

01:29:20   through a net neutrality all over again [TS]

01:29:22   I think people who don't know what it is [TS]

01:29:25   or what we're talking about there is a [TS]

01:29:29   video it's a video from vihart [TS]

01:29:31   explaining the neutrality in her in [TS]

01:29:34   their unique way [TS]

01:29:35   it's actually an updated version of an [TS]

01:29:38   older video which goes gets us more [TS]

01:29:41   towards Bart we're talking about this [TS]

01:29:42   again where she just took her old video [TS]

01:29:44   and then bookended it by a preface and [TS]

01:29:46   then the things that have changed this [TS]

01:29:48   is a a battle that we thought we had if [TS]

01:29:51   not one of these sort of got things [TS]

01:29:53   moving in the right direction but for a [TS]

01:29:55   variety of depressing reasons things are [TS]

01:29:57   moving back in the wrong direction in [TS]

01:29:59   these parts I'm seemingly all fronts and [TS]

01:30:01   that rally is no exception so you get [TS]

01:30:04   someone who used to be obviously a [TS]

01:30:07   lawyer for a Verizon or whatever you get [TS]

01:30:10   some industry person in to come in and [TS]

01:30:12   do something that most people the United [TS]

01:30:14   States don't want which is rollback net [TS]

01:30:16   neutrality to make it so that big [TS]

01:30:18   corporations can charge different [TS]

01:30:21   amounts of money for different customers [TS]

01:30:22   of the internet instead of just being a [TS]

01:30:25   common carrier blah blah blah watch the [TS]

01:30:26   video to have explained the the annoying [TS]

01:30:30   thing about this is like you get [TS]

01:30:32   fatigued like how much do I have to here [TS]

01:30:35   I didn't care about net neutrality like [TS]

01:30:36   didn't we go through this all where we [TS]

01:30:38   all got all up in a tizzy and everyone [TS]

01:30:40   write your congressperson and that seems [TS]

01:30:42   like we're doing that all the time and [TS]

01:30:43   how many things can I possibly care [TS]

01:30:44   about and I don't you know I've heard [TS]

01:30:47   about net neutrality too much I don't [TS]

01:30:48   even care anymore just don't bother me [TS]

01:30:50   or if you do want to do something about [TS]

01:30:53   you're like well what do I do I did a [TS]

01:30:54   bunch of stuff last time do I do that [TS]

01:30:56   same stuff again arts Technica has a [TS]

01:30:58   good article here entitled how to write [TS]

01:31:00   a meaningful FCC comment supporting net [TS]

01:31:02   neutrality now the depressed person in [TS]

01:31:05   me who sees everything falling apart in [TS]

01:31:07   this country these days thanks it [TS]

01:31:10   doesn't matter how meaningful your [TS]

01:31:11   comment of the FCC is because the stupid [TS]

01:31:13   Verizon lawyer who's running a thing is [TS]

01:31:14   going to ignore it and do whatever the [TS]

01:31:16   hell big corporations want because he [TS]

01:31:17   doesn't care what people want he doesn't [TS]

01:31:19   care what's good for a long term [TS]

01:31:20   anything all he cares about is screwing [TS]

01:31:22   everything up and that's exactly why he [TS]

01:31:24   was going to do his position anyway but [TS]

01:31:26   if you are not in that type of dark mood [TS]

01:31:28   at the moment that you read this article [TS]

01:31:29   this will help you do the best that you [TS]

01:31:33   can possibly do instead of just clicking [TS]

01:31:34   a bunch of buttons and filling out this [TS]

01:31:35   thing or how can you write a meaningful [TS]

01:31:37   comment that has a chance of influencing [TS]

01:31:40   things and who knows it kind of sort of [TS]

01:31:41   work last time before everything started [TS]

01:31:44   moving backwards again and it might work [TS]

01:31:45   this time so to two links in the show [TS]

01:31:48   notes one watch my hearts video for it's [TS]

01:31:51   not the best explanation net neutrality [TS]

01:31:52   because it's a many-faceted and she [TS]

01:31:54   particularly you know a lot of times [TS]

01:31:55   they pick an analogy like it's kind of [TS]

01:31:57   like if this happened and you know in [TS]

01:31:59   some ways it's better just straight-up [TS]

01:32:00   explain it without analogy but the [TS]

01:32:02   analogy huge uses is reasonably [TS]

01:32:04   representative even if it does gloss [TS]

01:32:06   over a lot of things and there are other [TS]

01:32:07   aspects there but anyway watch that to [TS]

01:32:09   have explained and it's fun and [TS]

01:32:10   interesting and if you already know what [TS]

01:32:12   it is but you feel fatigued by the idea [TS]

01:32:14   of trying to battle against this again [TS]

01:32:17   give the how to write a meaningful [TS]

01:32:20   comment thing a read to see if you can [TS]

01:32:22   do more than just check a box or put [TS]

01:32:24   your name on a list or whatever but [TS]

01:32:25   actually pour out a little bit of your [TS]

01:32:27   heart and your angst and even your anger [TS]

01:32:29   in the most constructive way possible [TS]

01:32:32   and you know do what you can do to fight [TS]

01:32:36   the same fight that we continue to be [TS]

01:32:38   fighting over and over and over and over [TS]

01:32:40   and over again there's also a great [TS]

01:32:42   video it's only about three and a half [TS]

01:32:44   minutes from CGP grey that was from the [TS]

01:32:46   last [TS]

01:32:47   we were all at this exact same rodeo [TS]

01:32:51   this one's from 2014 so maybe it wasn't [TS]

01:32:53   the last time but you get my point [TS]

01:32:55   that is also very good I've seen this by [TS]

01:32:57   heart video or at least the original [TS]

01:32:58   iteration thereof probably also from [TS]

01:33:01   2014 which it is excellent as well yeah [TS]

01:33:04   this it's it's important I think and [TS]

01:33:08   well I was gonna say I think that anyone [TS]

01:33:10   who really has any inkling as to what's [TS]

01:33:13   going on that isn't paid by one of these [TS]

01:33:15   big corporations will say net neutrality [TS]

01:33:17   is the only way to go but you know then [TS]

01:33:19   we elected who elected so obviously [TS]

01:33:22   people think differently so anyway if [TS]

01:33:24   you care about things like this podcast [TS]

01:33:26   and you want to get it reasonably [TS]

01:33:28   quickly and not have people get in the [TS]

01:33:30   way of it maybe talk to your [TS]

01:33:32   representatives about net neutrality all [TS]

01:33:34   right on that by the way a lot of the [TS]

01:33:35   examples they give you of like here's [TS]

01:33:36   what could happen if we didn't have net [TS]

01:33:38   neutrality the the difficulty is if you [TS]

01:33:41   wanted to be like if you wanted to [TS]

01:33:44   actually extrapolate like you get to put [TS]

01:33:46   money on it like what would actually [TS]

01:33:47   happen if robach neutrality it's such a [TS]

01:33:49   sort of systemic boil the Frog kind of [TS]

01:33:53   thing that we're already halfway through [TS]

01:33:55   - that is difficult to convince people [TS]

01:33:58   exactly how bad it'll be like that like [TS]

01:34:00   the things that we describe are like oh [TS]

01:34:01   your podcasts will download slowly right [TS]

01:34:03   yeah that could happen but in general [TS]

01:34:05   the powers that be that the powers that [TS]

01:34:08   are lobbying behind this that want this [TS]

01:34:10   you know they want to you know they want [TS]

01:34:12   the net not to be neutral they're not [TS]

01:34:15   that dumb they would do it in the same [TS]

01:34:17   way they've done everything else like [TS]

01:34:18   how do we all of a sudden wake up and [TS]

01:34:19   find ourselves with only one ISP choice [TS]

01:34:21   and like half the country right they did [TS]

01:34:23   that slowly and insidiously by merging [TS]

01:34:25   and lobbying to allow larger and larger [TS]

01:34:27   companies to merge together and it's [TS]

01:34:28   kind of like a thing like what do I care [TS]

01:34:30   if Time Warner is purchased by whatever [TS]

01:34:33   or this cable company buys out I don't [TS]

01:34:34   care whatever I just want my TV like [TS]

01:34:36   people don't care at that level and [TS]

01:34:38   slowly these giant giant companies are [TS]

01:34:41   doing things behind the scenes that is [TS]

01:34:42   making people's lives like that is [TS]

01:34:44   closing the door and things that can [TS]

01:34:46   make people's lives materially better [TS]

01:34:47   you could have faster internet access [TS]

01:34:49   for less money they're like they're [TS]

01:34:52   essentially taking away something that [TS]

01:34:53   you've never had the Beck Progress [TS]

01:34:55   essentially like and you don't know how [TS]

01:34:57   cheap broadband is in the rest of the [TS]

01:34:59   world and how other people have choices [TS]

01:35:01   if you have a common carrier that people [TS]

01:35:02   can actually compete based on price and [TS]

01:35:04   features like if you've never [TS]

01:35:05   experienced that it's like it's a lack [TS]

01:35:07   of something like I've never known it [TS]

01:35:09   could be this way therefore the lack of [TS]

01:35:11   it doesn't make me feel like I'm losing [TS]

01:35:12   anything but you are right that's how [TS]

01:35:15   they do it and so if they made the net [TS]

01:35:17   non neutral and cut all these deals and [TS]

01:35:19   extorted money from as they've already [TS]

01:35:20   done from Netflix to get their bits to [TS]

01:35:22   carry over the wires and and startups [TS]

01:35:24   that you've never heard of and never [TS]

01:35:25   will hear of are not allowed to enter [TS]

01:35:27   it's the big like you will not notice [TS]

01:35:29   that most people will not notice the [TS]

01:35:30   lack of things that you could have had [TS]

01:35:32   but that is really the worst-affected [TS]

01:35:34   this stuff stuff that that people that [TS]

01:35:37   you will never get because competition [TS]

01:35:40   has been eliminated and you know people [TS]

01:35:43   in the middle are extracting value from [TS]

01:35:46   everybody else and it's like you may [TS]

01:35:49   have like a mid-level malaise or like Oh [TS]

01:35:51   Comcast is all I can get and I hate [TS]

01:35:52   Comcast but it's like oh you know I [TS]

01:35:54   airlines you know I don't have a similar [TS]

01:35:56   problem of monopoly and consolidation [TS]

01:35:58   but anyway it's it's usually not as [TS]

01:36:01   comically evil as like I was watching my [TS]

01:36:03   show and they turned it off and they're [TS]

01:36:04   not gonna do that right they're going to [TS]

01:36:06   do it in a much more insidious way and [TS]

01:36:09   they're gonna end up you know finding a [TS]

01:36:11   way to continue to charge you more for [TS]

01:36:13   worse service and make you feel [TS]

01:36:15   powerless against it and you were like [TS]

01:36:16   had it how did we even get here and like [TS]

01:36:18   net neutrality is like the last bash [TS]

01:36:19   literally the last one because they've [TS]

01:36:20   already got everything else that I've [TS]

01:36:22   subscribed there's like if we could just [TS]

01:36:24   get that one last little bit and be able [TS]

01:36:25   to be the gatekeeper for all Internet [TS]

01:36:28   content for the last mile for everybody [TS]

01:36:30   and we've already chased that all [TS]

01:36:32   competition and consolidated our power [TS]

01:36:34   structure we just need this last little [TS]

01:36:36   bit that's why I'd like everyone is [TS]

01:36:37   fighting for this to them now because [TS]

01:36:38   it's not as like we're fighting for some [TS]

01:36:39   sort of YouTube utopia we're just trying [TS]

01:36:41   to hold on to the last shred of what we [TS]

01:36:43   have in this country and I'm sure people [TS]

01:36:45   listening other countries it's better [TS]

01:36:47   where you are but as with many things in [TS]

01:36:49   the US for historical reasons and stupid [TS]

01:36:52   governmental reasons many things are [TS]

01:36:54   terrible and internet access is one of [TS]

01:36:57   them and so send help yeah [TS]

01:37:05   that's I can't say I can't add anything [TS]

01:37:07   to that [TS]

01:37:08   that wouldn't be just dark and [TS]

01:37:09   depressing I mean if you want to if you [TS]

01:37:11   want to be optimistic as people pointed [TS]

01:37:13   out like the previous head of the FCC [TS]

01:37:14   was also an industry person and I mean [TS]

01:37:18   and you know all we did all the public [TS]

01:37:20   comment and we'd almost rallying or [TS]

01:37:21   whatever eventually we did you know we [TS]

01:37:25   didn't get the result we wanted of [TS]

01:37:26   course that was a very different [TS]

01:37:27   administration and that's where Margo [TS]

01:37:28   gets depressed again and we all get the [TS]

01:37:29   prostate like that was a different [TS]

01:37:31   administration but anyway but the fact [TS]

01:37:33   that we have made progress on this in [TS]

01:37:36   the past means it is not 100% impossible [TS]

01:37:38   that we can make progress on the future [TS]

01:37:40   and as we've learned administration's [TS]

01:37:42   change right [TS]

01:37:43   every 48 years so even if we lose this [TS]

01:37:48   one we could still win the war unlike [TS]

01:37:51   things like supreme I can talk about [TS]

01:37:53   Supreme Court justices like this these [TS]

01:37:56   are things that can change with the [TS]

01:37:57   administration so anyway this is this is [TS]

01:38:03   a great will be great rallying people to [TS]

01:38:05   political action by telling them exactly [TS]

01:38:06   how useless everything positive we have [TS]

01:38:09   to do it it's like it's like all we can [TS]

01:38:11   do we can vote and we can register to [TS]

01:38:14   vote we can vote we can be active [TS]

01:38:17   politically and we can do when they call [TS]

01:38:19   for Hublot comment on things in the FCC [TS]

01:38:21   does publicly comment you're part of the [TS]

01:38:23   public comment that's what it's for even [TS]

01:38:25   if you think you're gonna be ignored do [TS]

01:38:26   you think the FCC gives a crap about [TS]

01:38:28   public comments like do you think like [TS]

01:38:33   who in what part of the population is [TS]

01:38:35   asking for any of these laws that the [TS]

01:38:38   trying to shove through like no one's [TS]

01:38:39   asking for this big companies big [TS]

01:38:42   companies with a lot of money that's [TS]

01:38:43   right there's like four companies asking [TS]

01:38:45   for it zero part of the population [TS]

01:38:46   asking for it you know just like so much [TS]

01:38:48   else that's going on there's like no one [TS]

01:38:50   is asking for this except the people [TS]

01:38:52   passing the laws well there you have it [TS]

01:38:58   another rousing episode of a TV enjoy [TS]

01:39:01   [Laughter] [TS]