The Accidental Tech Podcast

234: Everybody Has Asterisks


00:00:00   when we last saw our heroes they were [TS]

00:00:02   doing all the things they normally do [TS]

00:00:05   but today they do something different [TS]

00:00:07   this is the Q&A episode all right so it [TS]

00:00:12   is still in a teepee time Friday the 4th [TS]

00:00:15   of August but most of you listening are [TS]

00:00:17   probably listening somewhere on or [TS]

00:00:19   around the 9th of August and we did this [TS]

00:00:21   because as we covered last episode we [TS]

00:00:24   didn't plan our vacation as well in any [TS]

00:00:26   case oh yeah we're gonna do a Q&A [TS]

00:00:28   episode so we had solicited had being [TS]

00:00:30   the keyword solicited questions via [TS]

00:00:33   Twitter are you telling our audience to [TS]

00:00:34   please stop asking questions now is that [TS]

00:00:36   what that means well you can certainly [TS]

00:00:38   continue to ask questions but we are not [TS]

00:00:40   planning another Q&A episode for at [TS]

00:00:42   least a year you can ask but they're [TS]

00:00:46   pretty much going into the ether but [TS]

00:00:48   what about the S key TP segment that [TS]

00:00:50   we're gonna add to the show yeah I I [TS]

00:00:51   would I would like to keep the questions [TS]

00:00:53   going oh I mean they don't have to be [TS]

00:00:55   any questions because there's like two [TS]

00:00:57   of them but alright the the the hosts [TS]

00:01:00   have spoken we have a just two or three [TS]

00:01:03   people ask a question every week all [TS]

00:01:09   right fair enough so we are going to do [TS]

00:01:12   this in quasi chronological order we [TS]

00:01:15   have selected here's the thing they were [TS]

00:01:20   going into the spreadsheet but I was [TS]

00:01:21   afraid if I tried to sort them that it [TS]

00:01:22   would like mess with the automate I [TS]

00:01:25   don't know like whatever yeah we're [TS]

00:01:26   gonna go from top to bottom in this [TS]

00:01:28   document I think if you can't see the [TS]

00:01:30   document you can't say I think it turns [TS]

00:01:31   out that adding every single tweet with [TS]

00:01:35   this hashtag to a giant spreadsheet and [TS]

00:01:38   having no way to like filter or upvote [TS]

00:01:41   or sort them at all [TS]

00:01:42   might not be the best tool for this job [TS]

00:01:44   turns out well I am happy for you to [TS]

00:01:48   coordinate the replacement my friend [TS]

00:01:50   because this seems like the lowest [TS]

00:01:52   impact way to me I agree with you it is [TS]

00:01:54   not ideal but it's the lowest impact [TS]

00:01:56   version I got are we supposed to be [TS]

00:01:57   using things like reddit is that a thing [TS]

00:01:59   are we supposed yeah that is what the [TS]

00:02:02   reddit's are for is no we're not [TS]

00:02:04   supposed to be doing [TS]

00:02:07   that's question number one answered [TS]

00:02:09   okay well that said I if anyone if [TS]

00:02:13   anyone on the show off the show wants to [TS]

00:02:15   make replacement that's better than the [TS]

00:02:17   spreadsheet I won Dorsett it would be it [TS]

00:02:19   we probably should have some way to like [TS]

00:02:21   AB voter down vote and some way for like [TS]

00:02:23   one of the admins which would be us to [TS]

00:02:25   say like I read this question work is [TS]

00:02:26   not gonna answer so just get you know [TS]

00:02:27   kill it yeah but like I'm like read and [TS]

00:02:30   I'm not sure this needs to be publicly [TS]

00:02:31   accessible whatever all right let's do [TS]

00:02:34   it okay so the show notes for this [TS]

00:02:37   episode may or may not exist we'll see [TS]

00:02:39   what happened but because it's basically [TS]

00:02:43   just a bunch of questions and answers [TS]

00:02:44   and so I'm just gonna try to MC this and [TS]

00:02:47   do the best I can with names with [TS]

00:02:49   questions etc and we're gonna dig in [TS]

00:02:52   with Gulick who asks hey why no more [TS]

00:02:56   toaster reviews John the toaster reviews [TS]

00:02:59   were a sponsorship believe it or not I [TS]

00:03:01   know you don't remember that but like [TS]

00:03:03   they weren't just like hey you want your [TS]

00:03:04   toasters it actually adds four cards [TS]

00:03:06   against humanity' but instead of an ad [TS]

00:03:08   read they wanted me to do toaster views [TS]

00:03:09   so they are not advertising [TS]

00:03:12   quote-unquote advertising on this show [TS]

00:03:14   anymore don't have any other campaigns [TS]

00:03:16   so that's why there's no more toaster [TS]

00:03:17   abused and if they did they wouldn't do [TS]

00:03:18   toasters again so you're not gonna get [TS]

00:03:21   any more toaster reviews and we have had [TS]

00:03:23   many people suggest new things that we [TS]

00:03:27   could have a series of reviews for and [TS]

00:03:30   honestly none of them sounded as funny [TS]

00:03:32   as that like that was such a great thing [TS]

00:03:34   it had a wonderful progression it ended [TS]

00:03:37   I don't think it could have continued [TS]

00:03:39   indefinitely I think it was pretty much [TS]

00:03:40   done when it ended and every other [TS]

00:03:42   suggestion we've seen since then has [TS]

00:03:44   been less funny [TS]

00:03:45   so yeah we know buddy has tackled [TS]

00:03:47   anything more than that and I think it [TS]

00:03:49   probably won't happen it least in that [TS]

00:03:51   format and those suggestions weren't [TS]

00:03:53   from sponsors right that sponsorship is [TS]

00:03:55   the key part of this endured like in the [TS]

00:03:59   middle of a tech podcast let's talk [TS]

00:04:00   about toasters for five minutes unless [TS]

00:04:02   it was a sponsorship behind it yeah like [TS]

00:04:04   and I think one of the one of the [TS]

00:04:05   funniest things about that was like you [TS]

00:04:07   know cards against humanity' and I'm we [TS]

00:04:10   later came to learn that the person who [TS]

00:04:11   was organizing all this there was Alex [TS]

00:04:13   Cox now of due by Friday Fame so and and [TS]

00:04:17   like they really [TS]

00:04:19   no they weren't just sending random [TS]

00:04:21   toasters like there was a clear [TS]

00:04:23   progression like getting like from the [TS]

00:04:26   normal ones slowly into the really [TS]

00:04:28   bizarre and crazy horrible things like [TS]

00:04:30   those big like breakfast stations I [TS]

00:04:32   could make the egg on top and stuff like [TS]

00:04:34   that like it was clearly in this [TS]

00:04:36   wonderful progression that it was it was [TS]

00:04:38   just so well done and you got to give [TS]

00:04:41   cards against humanity' credit for that [TS]

00:04:43   incredible run yeah completely agree [TS]

00:04:46   with you Cathy wise writes in what [TS]

00:04:50   cameras are you using now and so I will [TS]

00:04:53   begin I am using the same camera that we [TS]

00:04:55   got shortly before Declan was born [TS]

00:04:57   that's an olympus om-d am 10 which is a [TS]

00:05:01   truly terrible name it is a Micro Four [TS]

00:05:02   Thirds camera I have a prime lens for it [TS]

00:05:05   that is what I use generally speaking [TS]

00:05:07   and if you remember from the last [TS]

00:05:09   episode which in a teepee time happened [TS]

00:05:11   about 15 minutes ago um I also have a [TS]

00:05:14   zoom lens which I actually quite liked [TS]

00:05:16   and I was going to argue with you mark [TS]

00:05:18   oh when you were saying oh you can't get [TS]

00:05:19   a zoom lens that you know covers all [TS]

00:05:21   three parts of the triangle if you will [TS]

00:05:23   but as you were talking you would [TS]

00:05:26   mention well you know if you do have a [TS]

00:05:28   decent zoom lens that means it's [TS]

00:05:30   exorbitantly expensive and still [TS]

00:05:32   probably has some other concessions and [TS]

00:05:35   that is the case for me the zoom lens I [TS]

00:05:37   have was like eight hundred dollars or [TS]

00:05:39   something like that and otherwise it's [TS]

00:05:41   very nice it's left 2.8 I think it's a [TS]

00:05:43   hundred to three hundred millimeters in [TS]

00:05:46   regular cameras I forget what it is in [TS]

00:05:49   Micro Four Thirds but um but anyway I [TS]

00:05:51   liked it a lot but it it was very [TS]

00:05:53   expensive Marco what are you using I am [TS]

00:05:57   mostly using my iPhone which really sad [TS]

00:06:00   but that is the reality of it we do have [TS]

00:06:03   the 5d Mark for now in our family like [TS]

00:06:07   we actually had we had for years ever [TS]

00:06:10   since they came out we had the 5d mark [TS]

00:06:12   ii which came out I think in 2007 or [TS]

00:06:14   2008 something like that and it was late [TS]

00:06:18   2008 and so we had that since then and [TS]

00:06:21   it was great but it was getting along on [TS]

00:06:22   the tooth and in a lot of different ways [TS]

00:06:25   and so for a little while [TS]

00:06:26   I had a a Sony phase and because the the [TS]

00:06:29   Sony a series of cameras first I had a [TS]

00:06:31   little RX one then [TS]

00:06:32   I had the a7 r2 and those are awesome [TS]

00:06:36   cameras in a lot of ways but I found [TS]

00:06:39   I'll make it brief because we've talked [TS]

00:06:41   about this before I have found that I [TS]

00:06:44   generally preferred the speed and [TS]

00:06:47   handling and battery life of full-sized [TS]

00:06:50   SL ARS to the little Sony mirrorless [TS]

00:06:52   cameras and I think over time that will [TS]

00:06:54   probably eventually change back as this [TS]

00:06:57   little Sony's get better you know the a9 [TS]

00:07:00   has it has now come out and it solves [TS]

00:07:02   some of the problems I had it makes [TS]

00:07:03   certain things worse so maybe maybe [TS]

00:07:06   there will be an a7 r3 at some point or [TS]

00:07:09   an a9 mark 2 or something like that that [TS]

00:07:12   I might go back for but for now I'm very [TS]

00:07:14   happy and in the world of big Canon SLRs [TS]

00:07:17   when I need to fit fancy photos but I [TS]

00:07:20   take fancy photos less and less every [TS]

00:07:22   year my wife takes them much more often [TS]

00:07:25   and she is way way better for [TS]

00:07:27   photographer than I am [TS]

00:07:28   so most of like the the good pictures of [TS]

00:07:32   our family and stuff are taken by her [TS]

00:07:34   and so that kind of frees me up to do [TS]

00:07:36   mostly the casual stuff so that's I'm [TS]

00:07:39   shooting mostly on my iPhone if I shoot [TS]

00:07:41   anything at all I'm still using my sony [TS]

00:07:44   a6300 i thought of trading into for [TS]

00:07:47   6,500 those right up until I saw that [TS]

00:07:49   the battery life was slightly worse and [TS]

00:07:51   I really much did it for me because the [TS]

00:07:52   battery life in 6300 is just barely [TS]

00:07:55   enough like I have two batteries and on [TS]

00:07:58   vacation I never needed to swap the [TS]

00:07:59   batteries even a day at the ocean but I [TS]

00:08:01   come close and so I don't think that can [TS]

00:08:03   give up that whatever 10% battery life [TS]

00:08:05   and the 600 is more expensive and so [TS]

00:08:08   I've never I've never done this swap I [TS]

00:08:09   stopped looking at it I'm still you know [TS]

00:08:11   I was still recommending 6,500 or with [TS]

00:08:13   the 6300 as long as you can deal with [TS]

00:08:15   the battery life but be sure that you [TS]

00:08:17   can because that's that's a big quality [TS]

00:08:18   of life issue so I'm happy with that [TS]

00:08:21   the only new lens I got recently was [TS]

00:08:23   that is that big zoom I forget which one [TS]

00:08:24   it is but it's one of the sony ones it's [TS]

00:08:27   not it's not a very good line it's like [TS]

00:08:28   whatever it's what is it 55 to 300 so [TS]

00:08:32   it's a pretty big range again adjusting [TS]

00:08:35   for what that is on a PC sensor it's not [TS]

00:08:38   you know those are the full frame [TS]

00:08:39   numbers still like my 50 millimeter to [TS]

00:08:42   prime the best I have my own [TS]

00:08:44   super-expensive zoom that [TS]

00:08:46   sixteen to seventy and there's over a [TS]

00:08:48   thousand dollars and that is my sort of [TS]

00:08:50   general purpose lens that I keep on the [TS]

00:08:52   thing it's not as good as fifty Prime [TS]

00:08:54   and it doesn't zoom as long as the big [TS]

00:08:56   zoom but it's kind of a nice [TS]

00:08:57   all-arounder and to get a reasonable [TS]

00:08:59   okay all around or a thousand bucks so [TS]

00:09:02   yeah indeed also from kathy wise did the [TS]

00:09:06   last show which was actually two shows [TS]

00:09:08   ago if I'm doing this mental math right [TS]

00:09:10   shame you into clearing out your [TS]

00:09:11   application folders no it did not [TS]

00:09:13   nope not only did not shame me into [TS]

00:09:17   cleaning out my application folder but I [TS]

00:09:18   realized after we finished that show [TS]

00:09:20   that I was just looking at slash [TS]

00:09:21   applications I also have a tilde slash [TS]

00:09:24   applications with way more things way [TS]

00:09:26   more things that's like an old an old [TS]

00:09:29   school next early Mac OS ten or a thing [TS]

00:09:32   of having an applications folder in your [TS]

00:09:34   home directory which you could totally [TS]

00:09:35   have and the OS knows about it and gives [TS]

00:09:37   it the little a icon but only weird [TS]

00:09:39   people do that all right moving on uh-oh [TS]

00:09:44   plez asks which ad blocker do you guys [TS]

00:09:48   did actually Marco choose it's not you [TS]

00:09:50   guys which ad blocker did Marco choose [TS]

00:09:52   I'm kind of you know I'm I I was for a [TS]

00:09:56   long time so as soon as I killed peace [TS]

00:09:58   within I think a month or two I stopped [TS]

00:10:01   using it too and you kind of just to be [TS]

00:10:03   fair and kind of felt wrong for me to [TS]

00:10:04   use it and no one else did I switched to [TS]

00:10:07   one blocker back then and one blocker is [TS]

00:10:10   fine [TS]

00:10:11   it's I don't have really much bad to say [TS]

00:10:13   about it or much great to say about it [TS]

00:10:16   it's just if you're gonna go with one of [TS]

00:10:17   those mass-market blockers one blocker [TS]

00:10:19   at the time I I looked was the best one [TS]

00:10:22   I have noticed though over time more and [TS]

00:10:25   more sites are broken by it and and [TS]

00:10:29   there was a there was one of the iOS 11 [TS]

00:10:32   betas where it was not working due to [TS]

00:10:34   some limits that had changed so I went [TS]

00:10:37   looking and I started using better which [TS]

00:10:39   is better why it's a paid app and then [TS]

00:10:42   it's like five bucks they have a Mac [TS]

00:10:44   version and the iOS version which is [TS]

00:10:45   nice and the Mac version can't keep [TS]

00:10:46   itself up to date which is nice it's a [TS]

00:10:48   little like menu bar extra thing and so [TS]

00:10:50   I've been trying better out it doesn't [TS]

00:10:52   seem to block as much stuff as one [TS]

00:10:55   blocker but it also doesn't break as [TS]

00:10:57   many sites and it seems to block enough [TS]

00:10:59   that works for me and it seems to get [TS]

00:11:01   regular updates so right now I'm using [TS]

00:11:03   better but I've only been using it for [TS]

00:11:05   maybe a few weeks at most so it's hard [TS]

00:11:08   for me to really say you should [TS]

00:11:10   definitely go buy this but if you're [TS]

00:11:11   looking to buy something right now [TS]

00:11:13   that's the one I would start with John [TS]

00:11:16   any thoughts I also use one blocker for [TS]

00:11:18   the record but John any thoughts I'm [TS]

00:11:20   also using one blocker but occasionally [TS]

00:11:23   I don't know sometimes it gets turned [TS]

00:11:25   off and I don't notice for a while I [TS]

00:11:27   don't have a good blocker situation [TS]

00:11:29   going on I'm you know and half the time [TS]

00:11:32   when things don't work I do a little [TS]

00:11:34   long hold down on the reload to reload [TS]

00:11:36   with that blocker some I think some [TS]

00:11:39   sites get me more obnoxious one the [TS]

00:11:41   Boston Globe is like you're running an [TS]

00:11:43   ad blocker or I don't like you whatever [TS]

00:11:45   and it's like alright well fine I gotta [TS]

00:11:47   learn not to even tap those links and [TS]

00:11:50   some site I think it's like the Atlantic [TS]

00:11:51   or something like that is like sorry [TS]

00:11:54   something is wrong and we can't serve [TS]

00:11:56   you ads and so I reload without content [TS]

00:11:58   blockers and it says the same thing like [TS]

00:11:59   what do you want me to do things like or [TS]

00:12:01   like you're running an income unit [TS]

00:12:02   I'm not I'm not an income UNAM oh I'm [TS]

00:12:04   just on my phone and I want to read your [TS]

00:12:06   website and I turn everything off and [TS]

00:12:07   you still and the worst thing is it does [TS]

00:12:09   it with like a sheet that goes down over [TS]

00:12:11   the actual article you just want to like [TS]

00:12:12   right click and spend complete node on [TS]

00:12:15   your phone it's like this is Casey [TS]

00:12:18   occasionally goes off on his little [TS]

00:12:20   angry rants about how he feels [TS]

00:12:22   constrained by iOS I have that in small [TS]

00:12:24   degrees too and it's basically whenever [TS]

00:12:26   I do anything on a webpage and I realize [TS]

00:12:27   I don't have access to my web developer [TS]

00:12:29   tools and I feel just just completely [TS]

00:12:31   crippled it's like it's just a stupid [TS]

00:12:32   web it's just a just freaking did let me [TS]

00:12:34   delete it like it's nice just saw the [TS]

00:12:36   articles right there so here's what I do [TS]

00:12:37   I this is what I literally do to find [TS]

00:12:39   out if I want to actually read the [TS]

00:12:40   article I do a long press to read the [TS]

00:12:42   slug in the URL hoping that it's [TS]

00:12:44   something sensible sometimes it's not or [TS]

00:12:47   repeatedly revisit the page and tried to [TS]

00:12:49   read the headline before the stupid [TS]

00:12:50   thing slides down I'm like I get you [TS]

00:12:52   know three words and oh it slid down and [TS]

00:12:53   then every though three words and just [TS]

00:12:54   to find out is this a story that I want [TS]

00:12:56   to bother going to a quote unquote real [TS]

00:12:59   web browser and you know looking at or [TS]

00:13:02   whatever anyway websites are annoying [TS]

00:13:04   you guys try way too hard to really if [TS]

00:13:07   if a site makes it difficult for me to [TS]

00:13:09   read an article I just close it and I [TS]

00:13:11   move on because like you know what [TS]

00:13:13   no matter how good of a writer you are [TS]

00:13:15   or no matter how great of journalists [TS]

00:13:17   you are or whatever else there's a lot [TS]

00:13:20   of things to read out there on the web [TS]

00:13:21   and if you're gonna make it hard for me [TS]

00:13:23   to read yours I'm just not going to read [TS]

00:13:25   it and that might be like if if you have [TS]

00:13:27   a site with like an anti ad blocker [TS]

00:13:29   blocker thing if you won't let me read [TS]

00:13:33   the site with an ad blocker that's a [TS]

00:13:34   fair game I I respect that decision of [TS]

00:13:36   yours but that means I'm not going to [TS]

00:13:39   trim off my blocker I'm just not going [TS]

00:13:40   to read it like that's but if that's the [TS]

00:13:42   option you presented then fine that's [TS]

00:13:44   what I'm saying like I'm I'm willing [TS]

00:13:45   like oh you have an ad bugger like fine [TS]

00:13:48   I will turn off my ad blocker I'll turn [TS]

00:13:50   it off I'll be likely reload without [TS]

00:13:52   content blockers Here I am I'm ready to [TS]

00:13:54   see your thing it's not being that a [TS]

00:13:55   paywall not like they want me to sign up [TS]

00:13:57   subscribe or pay money like there is no [TS]

00:13:59   the site is just broken is what I'm [TS]

00:14:00   saying this is a pretty well on site [TS]

00:14:01   maybe it's the Atlantic or whatever it's [TS]

00:14:03   like I'm doing everything you want me to [TS]

00:14:05   do turn off all my blockers turn them [TS]

00:14:07   off in settings not be an incognito mode [TS]

00:14:09   there's no pay wall you're not asking me [TS]

00:14:12   to sign up or subscribe you just every [TS]

00:14:14   time I try to load it's like sorry I [TS]

00:14:16   couldn't figure out something and I'm [TS]

00:14:18   gonna put a big slide a big animated [TS]

00:14:19   sheet down over the article that's [TS]

00:14:21   perfectly good bit on there's no reader [TS]

00:14:22   mode for people asking there's no you [TS]

00:14:23   know websites man like do you ever [TS]

00:14:26   testing the iPhone it's a popular [TS]

00:14:28   platform we are sponsored this week by [TS]

00:14:33   Warby Parker making buying glasses [TS]

00:14:35   online easy and risk-free get your free [TS]

00:14:38   home tryouts today at Warby Parker comm [TS]

00:14:40   slash ATP Warby Parker believes that [TS]

00:14:43   eyeglasses [TS]

00:14:44   should not cost as much as a phone they [TS]

00:14:46   offer prescription eyeglasses and [TS]

00:14:48   sunglasses starting at just 95 dollars [TS]

00:14:51   including the lenses they make buying [TS]

00:14:53   glasses online easy and risk-free with [TS]

00:14:56   their home Tryon program this allows you [TS]

00:14:58   to order five pairs of frames and you [TS]

00:15:01   get to try them on for five days and [TS]

00:15:03   there's no obligation to buy it ships to [TS]

00:15:05   you for free and it includes a free [TS]

00:15:07   prepaid return label and all you got to [TS]

00:15:10   do is pick out what you want and they'll [TS]

00:15:12   send you this box a home try ons you [TS]

00:15:14   can't rhyme you can show people in your [TS]

00:15:15   life you can look in the mirror you can [TS]

00:15:17   take pictures whatever you want to do to [TS]

00:15:19   decide what's right for you and there's [TS]

00:15:20   no obligation you don't have to buy any [TS]

00:15:22   of them but I bet you will because [TS]

00:15:23   they're really high-quality glasses my [TS]

00:15:25   wife has a bunch of these and they [TS]

00:15:27   are just wonderful and they come with [TS]

00:15:29   great accessories a nice hard case a [TS]

00:15:31   cleaning cloth and for every pair you [TS]

00:15:33   buy a pairs distributed through robot [TS]

00:15:36   vision charities to someone in need [TS]

00:15:38   where we Parker really believes in [TS]

00:15:39   giving back to the world and they really [TS]

00:15:42   make great glasses and they're helping [TS]

00:15:43   the world - with these charities get a [TS]

00:15:45   free home try on program today you will [TS]

00:15:48   be shocked how nice these glasses are [TS]

00:15:49   they're trendy designs they have anti [TS]

00:15:51   glare and anti scratch coatings and they [TS]

00:15:54   even have a home Tryon companion feature [TS]

00:15:56   which allows you to use their fuck their [TS]

00:15:58   iPhone app to preview how the glasses [TS]

00:16:01   will look on your face you can stitch it [TS]

00:16:03   into a video you can share it with [TS]

00:16:04   friends to help you pick a winner even [TS]

00:16:06   before you get the frames mailed to you [TS]

00:16:08   in the home Tryon program you can [TS]

00:16:10   preview how they're gonna look on you [TS]

00:16:11   and then you can educate your guesses [TS]

00:16:12   that way it's so they make it so easy to [TS]

00:16:15   buy glasses online and the value here is [TS]

00:16:17   incredible all this starts at just 95 [TS]

00:16:19   dollars and they also offer sunglasses [TS]

00:16:21   non-prescription starting at just 95 [TS]

00:16:23   dollars [TS]

00:16:24   prescription starting at just 175 [TS]

00:16:25   dollars just like their eyeglasses their [TS]

00:16:27   sunglasses are also available through [TS]

00:16:29   their home Tryon program they have [TS]

00:16:31   premium polarized lenses that are [TS]

00:16:32   scratch resistant and provide a 100% UV [TS]

00:16:34   protection so check that today we read [TS]

00:16:36   Parker offers such a great value suck [TS]

00:16:38   great glasses for starting at just 95 [TS]

00:16:40   dollars go to worry Parker comm slash [TS]

00:16:42   ATP to get that free home try on KITT [TS]

00:16:45   started and you'll see for yourself how [TS]

00:16:47   great they are [TS]

00:16:47   thank you very much to Warby Parker for [TS]

00:16:49   sponsoring our show alright Jack Johnson [TS]

00:16:55   yes from New York City apparently has [TS]

00:16:59   two questions that are related do you [TS]

00:17:00   think it would be a good move for iTunes [TS]

00:17:02   to offer a higher resolution audio file [TS]

00:17:04   for download or streaming and then kind [TS]

00:17:07   of tangentially related do you think [TS]

00:17:09   part of the HEV C strategy is to set the [TS]

00:17:12   groundwork for 4k streaming I will say [TS]

00:17:15   that I don't think anyone really cares [TS]

00:17:17   except Marco about high resolution audio [TS]

00:17:19   coming out of iTunes and I don't I don't [TS]

00:17:23   even care about that I'm surprised so as [TS]

00:17:25   for all my like audio file nests when it [TS]

00:17:27   comes to like selecting headphones and [TS]

00:17:29   stuff I have never been swayed by like [TS]

00:17:34   higher than CD quality audio files or [TS]

00:17:37   lossless compression schemes I know a [TS]

00:17:39   lot of people like these a lot [TS]

00:17:41   think they can hear a difference I don't [TS]

00:17:43   think you can but I know for sure that I [TS]

00:17:45   can't I hold on though hold on how do [TS]

00:17:47   you download your Phish concerts mp3 [TS]

00:17:50   they offer flack option I am stunned [TS]

00:17:53   that's what I assumed you were gonna say [TS]

00:17:54   no they offer flack for a few more [TS]

00:17:56   dollars and there is so I have bought so [TS]

00:17:59   quick quick background here fish sells [TS]

00:18:02   all their live shows legally through [TS]

00:18:04   their own site like a few hours after [TS]

00:18:06   the show's end and you can buy a season [TS]

00:18:08   pass and you can you can basically have [TS]

00:18:10   have downloads and for sure they do for [TS]

00:18:12   like a whole tour so I do this I've been [TS]

00:18:14   doing this since something like 2009 or [TS]

00:18:16   so and there was one tour early on that [TS]

00:18:20   I bought in flack i pre-ordered it oh my [TS]

00:18:23   gosh let me get the flag verge and I'll [TS]

00:18:24   see if it's something different and it [TS]

00:18:26   was such a pain because like first of [TS]

00:18:29   all iTunes didn't support flack at the [TS]

00:18:31   time I think I think it actually is [TS]

00:18:32   finally having that in High Sierra I [TS]

00:18:34   think but it didn't the time and and so [TS]

00:18:37   I had all these massive files that first [TS]

00:18:40   of all I didn't want to ever delete them [TS]

00:18:42   because like when I paid for these [TS]

00:18:44   massive files so there's taking up ton [TS]

00:18:46   spacing the harder that I still had to [TS]

00:18:47   transcode them to make them actually [TS]

00:18:49   playable in anything I did play the [TS]

00:18:53   original ones or there was C I think I I [TS]

00:18:55   think one one time I transferred them to [TS]

00:18:57   a lack or maybe I'd download maybe they [TS]

00:18:59   sold them as a lack I forget so I did [TS]

00:19:02   for a group of them transfer them and [TS]

00:19:04   play them as lossless files as a lack [TS]

00:19:07   files in iTunes and I just I couldn't [TS]

00:19:09   tell the difference at all and there's [TS]

00:19:11   there's lots of again there's lots of [TS]

00:19:13   people who claim they can hit they can [TS]

00:19:14   hear a difference there's a whole lot of [TS]

00:19:16   tests that have been done that I've [TS]

00:19:17   shown mostly otherwise but this is one [TS]

00:19:21   of those things kind of like my [TS]

00:19:22   subwoofer thing from last episode of [TS]

00:19:24   like I do things my way and some people [TS]

00:19:27   consider them insufficient or some [TS]

00:19:29   people want better things and I think [TS]

00:19:32   I'm just I don't I can't care anymore [TS]

00:19:34   like if you want to do things your own [TS]

00:19:36   way if you want to get massive files [TS]

00:19:37   with you know 24 96 or 24:1 need to [TS]

00:19:41   sample rates and if you want to have [TS]

00:19:43   lossless encoding and you want your [TS]

00:19:45   albums to take up a gig each fine it's [TS]

00:19:48   hard drive space is cheap do whatever [TS]

00:19:50   you want well I could not possibly agree [TS]

00:19:53   with you more but I was expecting to [TS]

00:19:55   snicker as you told me about how flack [TS]

00:19:57   is the only answer so kudos to you sir I [TS]

00:20:00   am stunned do you want audio that's [TS]

00:20:02   lower quality and has like hiss and pop [TS]

00:20:03   in it [TS]

00:20:06   here we go something for Casey like I [TS]

00:20:11   don't I think it's not the right move [TS]

00:20:14   for Apple to offer hi Rosa no audio but [TS]

00:20:17   if Apple ever gets to the point I don't [TS]

00:20:19   think they will because again streaming [TS]

00:20:20   is what everyone cares about now is [TS]

00:20:22   Marco pointed out earlier slash on the [TS]

00:20:24   last show but it would be a way to make [TS]

00:20:28   the Ferrari you have purchasable down a [TS]

00:20:30   little music hey can we charge more [TS]

00:20:32   money for something that people perceive [TS]

00:20:33   as better the answer is yes you can you [TS]

00:20:37   so lossless or a higher bitrate or some [TS]

00:20:40   combination thereof and the very small [TS]

00:20:42   number of people who think that is [TS]

00:20:44   worthwhile for them will buy it doesn't [TS]

00:20:46   really matter if anyone can you hear the [TS]

00:20:47   difference only matters whether they'll [TS]

00:20:49   give you money in exchange for these [TS]

00:20:50   goods which are able to be produced so I [TS]

00:20:52   wouldn't totally rule it out I don't [TS]

00:20:53   think it's some Apple needs to do at all [TS]

00:20:55   but someday if buying music at all [TS]

00:20:59   downloadable continues to be a thing [TS]

00:21:00   some smart person in marketing may say [TS]

00:21:03   we're leaving money on the table by not [TS]

00:21:04   selling high-resolution audio and [TS]

00:21:07   they'll just do it and charge more money [TS]

00:21:09   for it and a couple people will buy it [TS]

00:21:11   and it'll be a tiny bump in a graph and [TS]

00:21:12   someone will get a good performance [TS]

00:21:14   review yeah but anyway the thing is like [TS]

00:21:17   there is demand for this there is [TS]

00:21:19   absolutely demand for higher than CD [TS]

00:21:23   quality sample rates and everything and [TS]

00:21:25   higher bitrate [TS]

00:21:26   format or more advanced formats or [TS]

00:21:28   lossless formats there is definitely [TS]

00:21:29   demand for that like most people don't [TS]

00:21:32   even know like people who listen to the [TS]

00:21:33   show probably unaware quite how many [TS]

00:21:37   options there are for what basically [TS]

00:21:40   amount to fancy iPods that sell today [TS]

00:21:45   for like $400 or more that like their [TS]

00:21:49   like their the Sony makes a bunch of [TS]

00:21:51   them they're basically little you know [TS]

00:21:53   pocketable portable audio players the [TS]

00:21:55   you know size like a deck of cards like [TS]

00:21:57   that kind of size class that have a [TS]

00:21:59   headphone just like the old iPod Classic [TS]

00:22:01   that play these super high bitrate files [TS]

00:22:04   like they could actually output them and [TS]

00:22:06   decode them with a fancy DAC and [TS]

00:22:07   everything else [TS]

00:22:08   this market exists people buy these [TS]

00:22:10   things for like $400 but not a lot of [TS]

00:22:14   people and there are streaming services [TS]

00:22:16   things like Neil Young's paano things [TS]

00:22:18   like even tidal which is a fairly [TS]

00:22:21   decently sized streaming service now [TS]

00:22:23   like streaming services that IV that [TS]

00:22:25   have either been or even music sales [TS]

00:22:29   service I don't think paano even was [TS]

00:22:30   streaming I think it only sold stuff if [TS]

00:22:32   it even still exists but anyway there [TS]

00:22:34   are services that we've Excel you high [TS]

00:22:36   bitrate music legally or that will let [TS]

00:22:39   you stream them like tidal and they use [TS]

00:22:42   these things as they use the quality as [TS]

00:22:44   their main selling point but they don't [TS]

00:22:46   really ever become mass-market they [TS]

00:22:47   don't really ever get anywhere off the [TS]

00:22:49   ground really the only reason title has [TS]

00:22:51   gotten anywhere is because it has had [TS]

00:22:53   exclusives like they've had exclusive [TS]

00:22:55   album releases on there other than that [TS]

00:22:57   they were like when they were when they [TS]

00:22:59   were really only about the music quality [TS]

00:23:00   they got nowhere the fact is most people [TS]

00:23:03   don't care and most people don't need to [TS]

00:23:06   care because for most of these gains [TS]

00:23:07   there actually is no perceptible [TS]

00:23:09   difference to most people so while Apple [TS]

00:23:11   could sell high bitrate songs and stuff [TS]

00:23:14   that would just be appealing to a very [TS]

00:23:17   very small market in what is already a [TS]

00:23:19   declining market which is the market of [TS]

00:23:21   music sales so the second part of this [TS]

00:23:24   about HEV C being part of 4k yep 100% [TS]

00:23:27   like the 4k video is bigger HEV see is a [TS]

00:23:31   higher efficiency codec it supports [TS]

00:23:33   higher resolutions for like for video [TS]

00:23:36   not just the images with the he thing [TS]

00:23:38   anyway yes it's 100% part of that and [TS]

00:23:40   that's why we're gonna see a 4k Apple TV [TS]

00:23:42   and a TVC encoded content that plays on [TS]

00:23:45   it I agree [TS]

00:23:47   Adam sac writes in to say and this is [TS]

00:23:51   the first in theme that I noticed which [TS]

00:23:54   was try to get the ATP host to hate each [TS]

00:23:57   other so he writes in if you had to use [TS]

00:24:00   the daily text setup of one of your [TS]

00:24:02   co-hosts for a week instead of your own [TS]

00:24:04   whose devices would you choose and I [TS]

00:24:07   will start off and I would probably [TS]

00:24:09   choose Marcos because it is in general [TS]

00:24:11   most similar to my setup [TS]

00:24:13   obviously there are differences but most [TS]

00:24:15   similar to mine and he has some pretty [TS]

00:24:17   kick-ass headphones so win-win everyone [TS]

00:24:20   would pick [TS]

00:24:20   Margot's including Marco because Marcos [TS]

00:24:30   yeah I would pick cases because [TS]

00:24:33   non-retina sorry John you lose you [TS]

00:24:36   shoulda picked my wife's you could pick [TS]

00:24:38   the 5k iMac it's the one without image [TS]

00:24:40   retention yeah that's actually better [TS]

00:24:41   than mine that's funny [TS]

00:24:45   Ian Marin rates in to say and I don't [TS]

00:24:48   think I selected this as one to answer [TS]

00:24:50   but I have a feeling I know who did Ivan [TS]

00:24:53   Inouye to cord when's the ideal time to [TS]

00:24:56   replace it it's at about eighty thousand [TS]

00:24:57   miles no maintenance issues to date John [TS]

00:25:00   did you perhaps star this as a question [TS]

00:25:02   to me I did so the right time probably [TS]

00:25:07   the best time to replace this Accord was [TS]

00:25:10   right now or last year because the the [TS]

00:25:14   best time to get an accord is at the [TS]

00:25:16   tail end of a generation when they've [TS]

00:25:19   worked all the kinks out of it and they [TS]

00:25:20   have we always get like the special [TS]

00:25:22   edition even though you don't get the [TS]

00:25:22   special edition like they know how to [TS]

00:25:25   build that generation of car has the [TS]

00:25:26   most doodads and and you know nice [TS]

00:25:29   things added to it and they figured out [TS]

00:25:31   low and the first model to put the USB [TS]

00:25:32   port in the wrong place or you know [TS]

00:25:34   fiddle things like that's the time to [TS]

00:25:36   get it the the first car versed in the [TS]

00:25:40   new Accord I think the new Accord is is [TS]

00:25:43   uglier than the old one but it does have [TS]

00:25:46   a better infotainment system so that's [TS]

00:25:48   the other time you can get us like the [TS]

00:25:50   excitement of getting in on the first [TS]

00:25:53   car and in your generation but in [TS]

00:25:55   general when your court starts getting [TS]

00:25:56   to be around 10 years old I feel like [TS]

00:25:58   that's the time to if you want to have [TS]

00:26:00   any chance of having any reasonable [TS]

00:26:01   trade in on it or private sale whatever [TS]

00:26:04   you want to do with it don't wait until [TS]

00:26:05   the car is basically worthless or it's [TS]

00:26:07   worth like a couple hundred bucks wait [TS]

00:26:08   till it's you know it's still a couple [TS]

00:26:09   thousand dollars for the value in your [TS]

00:26:11   car it's before crap starts breaking [TS]

00:26:13   like you said you know is 80,000 miles [TS]

00:26:15   nothing as nothing as issued with it [TS]

00:26:17   it's a no wait right it's getting to be [TS]

00:26:20   around 10 years time to replace you know [TS]

00:26:24   just as a point of comparison I pretty [TS]

00:26:26   much agree with you but uh when we [TS]

00:26:28   bought the Volvo we traded in Aaron's [TS]

00:26:32   2007 Maz [TS]

00:26:34   six which had a little bit shy of 80,000 [TS]

00:26:36   miles on it and as I believe I talked [TS]

00:26:37   about on the show was pretty much a tank [TS]

00:26:39   like that thing almost never had any [TS]

00:26:41   problems and we got three thousand [TS]

00:26:45   dollars in change for it I think [TS]

00:26:47   Carmack's offered us three grand so it [TS]

00:26:49   was not worthless by any means but I [TS]

00:26:51   agree with you John that this is the [TS]

00:26:53   kind of edge of the cliff I think and [TS]

00:26:55   you go too much further and you're gonna [TS]

00:26:57   fall right off that cliff [TS]

00:26:59   Marco any thoughts on this nope [TS]

00:27:02   good talk Joe Sullivan writes in is [TS]

00:27:05   there anything that siracusa is in favor [TS]

00:27:07   of or likes without any caveats [TS]

00:27:09   reservations or asterisks and I have to [TS]

00:27:12   I have to congratulate Joe Sullivan [TS]

00:27:13   because there are about a million ways [TS]

00:27:15   to ask this question like a big fat jerk [TS]

00:27:17   and this was not one of them so well [TS]

00:27:19   done that's a great question put too [TS]

00:27:22   many things at the end of this question [TS]

00:27:23   caveat reservations or asterisks well [TS]

00:27:26   caveat you can I know what that means [TS]

00:27:27   reservations mean it's all getting over [TS]

00:27:29   they asterisk me like Oh something else [TS]

00:27:31   in addition that you want to say about [TS]

00:27:33   like the answer question there is [TS]

00:27:35   nothing nothing so perfect come on [TS]

00:27:36   that's right things that I really like [TS]

00:27:41   but if press to say hey you really like [TS]

00:27:44   Kiki's Delivery Service is there [TS]

00:27:45   anything wrong with that movie well I [TS]

00:27:48   mean cause it's actually probably [TS]

00:27:50   closest like I can if pressed I can come [TS]

00:27:53   up with asterisks for Kiki's Delivery [TS]

00:27:56   Service sure of course you can right [TS]

00:27:59   there is nothing is gonna be absolutely [TS]

00:28:01   perfect if you can't if you literally [TS]

00:28:04   can't think of anything wrong with it [TS]

00:28:05   then you probably don't understand the [TS]

00:28:07   thing but that doesn't mean like these [TS]

00:28:08   are my favorite things in the whole [TS]

00:28:09   world like overwhelmingly everything I [TS]

00:28:11   feel about these is that they're great [TS]

00:28:13   right so I think that qualifies them and [TS]

00:28:16   I at that reasonable definition of is [TS]

00:28:18   there anything that you are like without [TS]

00:28:21   any caveats reservation like if someone [TS]

00:28:23   says hey you know I need a good movie to [TS]

00:28:27   watch and I say well if you've never [TS]

00:28:29   seen the Empire Strikes Back watch watch [TS]

00:28:31   Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back I'm [TS]

00:28:32   not gonna add reservations [TS]

00:28:34   oh but also here are some reservations [TS]

00:28:36   about the Empire Strikes Back I'm gonna [TS]

00:28:37   add no reservations there's no nothing [TS]

00:28:39   to say about it so I would say that [TS]

00:28:41   qualifies the only definitions are the [TS]

00:28:43   pedantic one and which nothing qualifies [TS]

00:28:44   for anybody or the reasonable definition [TS]

00:28:47   in which this [TS]

00:28:47   kinds of things that I really want to [TS]

00:28:49   hear me things that really like listen [TS]

00:28:50   to being comfortable very very often on [TS]

00:28:52   that show are talking about things that [TS]

00:28:53   really like you know for the video game [TS]

00:28:55   journey television shows movies books we [TS]

00:29:00   do we do talk about asterisks if you [TS]

00:29:03   want to call it that but it doesn't mean [TS]

00:29:04   we don't love them so I think this [TS]

00:29:05   question is not a good question it's [TS]

00:29:08   more than faster more than a reservation [TS]

00:29:11   because the answer it got completing [TS]

00:29:16   about the question I remember that's [TS]

00:29:17   true of anybody like is there anything [TS]

00:29:18   even ask you that you chose it is there [TS]

00:29:20   anything you two like uncritically [TS]

00:29:22   without caveat to reservation or [TS]

00:29:23   asterisks I think if you're honest with [TS]

00:29:25   yourselves you have to say that's not [TS]

00:29:26   true for either of you either I mean I [TS]

00:29:28   think the checker muffin up a number of [TS]

00:29:29   good options your kids your wife your [TS]

00:29:32   dog long island journey [TS]

00:29:34   those are BS questions so you have [TS]

00:29:35   reservations about your wife and your [TS]

00:29:37   kids don't say you do ice cream you if [TS]

00:29:40   you are if you think your spouse does [TS]

00:29:42   not have any asterisks you are either [TS]

00:29:44   newly married or willfully naive because [TS]

00:29:48   everybody has asterisks everybody say [TS]

00:29:53   yeah but they're always asked sounds [TS]

00:29:56   like the tiniest little thing and now I [TS]

00:29:58   was like could something be a little bit [TS]

00:30:01   different of course of course always I [TS]

00:30:03   don't even know where to go from here [TS]

00:30:05   like and especially kids like no my [TS]

00:30:07   child is perfect yes lots of parents [TS]

00:30:09   think that hmm maybe a little bit less [TS]

00:30:12   screaming like not you know like like [TS]

00:30:14   three seconds less screaming in a [TS]

00:30:16   lifetime of screaming would you accept [TS]

00:30:17   that yes maybe if that poo hadn't [TS]

00:30:25   exploded out the side of the diaper that [TS]

00:30:26   one time when I had a new car would you [TS]

00:30:28   always an asterisk so now you don't love [TS]

00:30:30   your children because you didn't want [TS]

00:30:31   the putu come out the side of the diaper [TS]

00:30:32   and go all over your new car seats oh [TS]

00:30:35   that's amazing [TS]

00:30:37   we gotta move on otherwise we're never [TS]

00:30:39   going to get rid get through this let's [TS]

00:30:41   see what was next I have so many [TS]

00:30:43   freaking tabs open I must be John [TS]

00:30:44   siracusa Eduard level writes in what [TS]

00:30:48   podcast you currently listened to and [TS]

00:30:50   would recommend I listen to a ton of [TS]

00:30:52   podcast but there's a couple that I [TS]

00:30:54   would recommend the aforementioned due [TS]

00:30:56   by Friday is excellent [TS]

00:30:58   I will pitch one [TS]

00:31:01   my or a couple of my co-host shows I [TS]

00:31:04   think that reconcilable differences is [TS]

00:31:06   phenomenal and so is under the radar but [TS]

00:31:10   I will also pitch a couple others very [TS]

00:31:11   quickly if you wanted to hear a smart [TS]

00:31:15   person talk about conservative politics [TS]

00:31:19   which you may or may not want the pen [TS]

00:31:21   the ben shapiro show is very interesting [TS]

00:31:23   and very good i don't listen every [TS]

00:31:25   episode by any means it's like 45 [TS]

00:31:26   minutes and it's pretty much every [TS]

00:31:27   weekday but when i have time all and i [TS]

00:31:29   usually about once a week I'll catch it [TS]

00:31:31   and I typically deeply deeply disagree [TS]

00:31:36   with the things he thinks but [TS]

00:31:37   nevertheless it is interesting I'll also [TS]

00:31:41   say that wheel bearings is neutral by [TS]

00:31:44   people who actually know what they're [TS]

00:31:45   talking about we want to listen to that [TS]

00:31:47   yeah I know right [TS]

00:31:49   and then 20,000 Hertz is also very good [TS]

00:31:52   think 99% invisible but specifically [TS]

00:31:55   around sound so those are just some [TS]

00:31:56   selections from my extraordinarily long [TS]

00:31:59   list of podcasts that I listened to John [TS]

00:32:02   since I've been tagging Marco more first [TS]

00:32:04   more often let's let's go to you next [TS]

00:32:06   I'm strong recommendation for Roderick [TS]

00:32:09   on the line which I love flophouse [TS]

00:32:12   obviously my my old probably oldest [TS]

00:32:15   recommendation that show is still going [TS]

00:32:18   obviously hello internet in cortex the [TS]

00:32:21   pair of shows both involving CGP grey [TS]

00:32:25   those are great [TS]

00:32:26   Oh what else we got I'm scrum scrolling [TS]

00:32:29   through overcast to look at I have way [TS]

00:32:31   too many things and overcast was [TS]

00:32:32   scrolling through their debug which I [TS]

00:32:36   don't know if it's still ongoing but the [TS]

00:32:38   back catalog of debug is great tech show [TS]

00:32:40   where they talk to lots of important [TS]

00:32:43   people in tech you should definitely [TS]

00:32:44   check that out and you know there's tons [TS]

00:32:46   more but I think it's a good place to [TS]

00:32:47   get started Marco you guys have already [TS]

00:32:50   mentioned pretty much everything I was [TS]

00:32:52   going to say you know the usuals due by [TS]

00:32:54   Friday hello Internet cortex roderick on [TS]

00:32:58   the line as far as in the tech world [TS]

00:33:01   again you've covered many good ones I [TS]

00:33:03   would also add upgrade unreal AFM with [TS]

00:33:06   Jason snow my curly that is probably my [TS]

00:33:09   favorite tech show it's it's just really [TS]

00:33:12   really great so yeah otherwise [TS]

00:33:14   he does pretty much covered it yeah none [TS]

00:33:16   in API you know and and what I love [TS]

00:33:18   about I mean I could talk about podcast [TS]

00:33:20   forever [TS]

00:33:20   so I'll try not to but what I love about [TS]

00:33:22   this is that none of us mentioned shows [TS]

00:33:25   that were like the biggest podcast in [TS]

00:33:27   the world Mendon MPI probably the [TS]

00:33:28   biggest one we mentioned but when people [TS]

00:33:31   think podcasting they so often will make [TS]

00:33:33   an assumption like everybody listen to [TS]

00:33:35   this American life where it's you know [TS]

00:33:37   stuff like that but the fact is there [TS]

00:33:39   isn't any podcast out there that [TS]

00:33:40   everybody listens to and there and like [TS]

00:33:42   the the the world of mass market or very [TS]

00:33:45   very popular podcasts is still actually [TS]

00:33:47   fairly diversified and there's a lot of [TS]

00:33:49   people who listen to a lot of podcasts [TS]

00:33:52   who don't listen to any of those big [TS]

00:33:54   ones so this is it's part of what I love [TS]

00:33:56   about podcasting is like it's so [TS]

00:33:58   incredibly diverse and specialized that [TS]

00:34:00   like I can look at so many podcasts and [TS]

00:34:02   there and there there are so many [TS]

00:34:04   amazing podcasts out there but I don't [TS]

00:34:07   need to spend any time listening to [TS]

00:34:08   things that aren't like really [TS]

00:34:10   interesting to me and that aren't [TS]

00:34:11   specialized to my interests because [TS]

00:34:14   there's so much that is and that's just [TS]

00:34:16   a part of what I love about podcasting [TS]

00:34:18   and and you know my over cast list is [TS]

00:34:21   huge I subscribed tons of things I was [TS]

00:34:22   trying to give recommendations that [TS]

00:34:23   maybe people might not go for like up [TS]

00:34:25   you know I didn't recommend the talk [TS]

00:34:28   show cuz I assume you know that show [TS]

00:34:30   exists that it's good and you should [TS]

00:34:31   totally listen to it like it didn't [TS]

00:34:32   recommend this American life cuz I mean [TS]

00:34:34   you know that show exists and it's good [TS]

00:34:35   and you should listen to it right trying [TS]

00:34:37   to find these slightly more obscure [TS]

00:34:38   corners but that's the other thing I [TS]

00:34:40   like about podcasts I subscribe to way [TS]

00:34:42   more podcasts than I then I faithfully [TS]

00:34:44   listen to like I'm not a podcast [TS]

00:34:46   completionists I have tons of [TS]

00:34:47   descriptions a few shows I keep up with [TS]

00:34:49   very religiously but a lot of shows I [TS]

00:34:51   let age and then go through five [TS]

00:34:52   episodes at a time and a lot of shows I [TS]

00:34:53   just pick and choose from that's the [TS]

00:34:56   best thing not only do you not have to [TS]

00:34:57   like oh there's only five podcasts that [TS]

00:34:59   everyone listens to if you find a [TS]

00:35:01   podcast that you really like and [TS]

00:35:04   sometimes you find a podcast and you [TS]

00:35:07   only have to listen to the episodes that [TS]

00:35:08   you really like like even like being [TS]

00:35:10   comparable like if they do an episode [TS]

00:35:12   reviewing something you don't care about [TS]

00:35:13   skip that episode like they're [TS]

00:35:14   standalone but they're you know they do [TS]

00:35:16   a thing about TV show that you didn't [TS]

00:35:17   watch you're not interested in fine like [TS]

00:35:19   just pick and choose that's the beauty [TS]

00:35:21   of podcasting visuals in every episode [TS]

00:35:23   of our show obviously oh yeah of course [TS]

00:35:25   I mean how could you [TS]

00:35:27   regular language writes in what do you [TS]

00:35:29   think about the current state of Swift I [TS]

00:35:31   would like to hear what John and Marco [TS]

00:35:33   have to say about si I guess Casey a [TS]

00:35:37   rant about Swift opens oh I think [TS]

00:35:39   there's new lines missing here [TS]

00:35:41   basically what do you guys think and [TS]

00:35:43   maybe me talk about Swift open source so [TS]

00:35:45   I will I guess round this out at the end [TS]

00:35:47   so let's start with Marco and then go to [TS]

00:35:50   John honestly I don't pay that much [TS]

00:35:53   attention to what's going on in Swift I [TS]

00:35:55   know I'm supposed to I know I should [TS]

00:35:58   overcast contains some Swift code that I [TS]

00:36:00   added you know to try cheaper stuff the [TS]

00:36:02   language and and stuff but I'm still [TS]

00:36:04   writing most couldn't you have to see [TS]

00:36:05   and it's it's not really out of a [TS]

00:36:08   judgment of Swift so much as it's just a [TS]

00:36:11   pragmatism that I I still don't see a [TS]

00:36:14   lot of motivation for you to switch I [TS]

00:36:17   recognize that I should but I in [TS]

00:36:19   practice don't John I would never picked [TS]

00:36:24   it seems like it's chugging along I I do [TS]

00:36:27   keep up with the things that are going [TS]

00:36:29   on and it it's it still got you know [TS]

00:36:31   challenges but it's making slow steady [TS]

00:36:33   progress so I think Swift is moving in [TS]

00:36:35   the right direction at varying speeds [TS]

00:36:37   and we have to say about si no no that's [TS]

00:36:42   that's not see the language I think [TS]

00:36:45   basically the question was what do you [TS]

00:36:47   guys have to say about Swift and what do [TS]

00:36:48   I have to say specifically about Swift [TS]

00:36:50   open-source so yeah I think your summary [TS]

00:36:53   of Swift is good and in brief and I [TS]

00:36:55   stick by our stand by it [TS]

00:36:56   Swift open source is a double-edged [TS]

00:36:58   sword I think I think that the problem [TS]

00:37:01   that I have aspect of Swift open source [TS]

00:37:03   is that it seems like a lot of the [TS]

00:37:06   really really really academic like I'm [TS]

00:37:10   trying to think of a way to say this [TS]

00:37:11   without being pejorative but people who [TS]

00:37:14   are much more interested in the academic [TS]

00:37:15   side of programming languages seem to be [TS]

00:37:18   the ones that are most vocal and most [TS]

00:37:19   interested to participate on like the [TS]

00:37:21   mailing lists and things of that nature [TS]

00:37:22   where someone like myself which is not [TS]

00:37:24   to say I'm like at the same caliber as a [TS]

00:37:26   super academic but someone like myself [TS]

00:37:28   who I like to think of as a reasonably [TS]

00:37:31   smart guy but I don't really have any [TS]

00:37:34   interest in like following the [TS]

00:37:35   intricacies of what's going on in the [TS]

00:37:37   mailing list I don't really have any [TS]

00:37:39   interest in argue [TS]

00:37:40   about you know different pitches that [TS]

00:37:43   have been made via the mailing list I [TS]

00:37:44   just want to get crap done man and to me [TS]

00:37:47   I feel like swift open source it feels [TS]

00:37:51   like from an outsider's point of view [TS]

00:37:54   that maybe it could use a little more [TS]

00:37:57   Stern direction from Apple to prevent [TS]

00:38:00   the kind of meandering and the kind of I [TS]

00:38:02   don't know language features that I find [TS]

00:38:05   to be really really silly and not [TS]

00:38:07   terribly helpful for actually just [TS]

00:38:09   shipping products and that's where I [TS]

00:38:11   kind of get a little frustrated but [TS]

00:38:14   that's easy it's easy for me to throw [TS]

00:38:15   stones from outside the glass house [TS]

00:38:17   right and and really if I wanted to [TS]

00:38:19   effect change what I should be doing is [TS]

00:38:21   participating on the door mailing list [TS]

00:38:23   that I'm lamenting I'm not sure you [TS]

00:38:25   should be doing that because I'm going [TS]

00:38:26   to put this out there language design is [TS]

00:38:28   a different skill than being a [TS]

00:38:31   programmer and using that language is [TS]

00:38:33   entirely appropriate that the lists [TS]

00:38:36   where people are designing the languages [TS]

00:38:37   looks weird to someone who's like I just [TS]

00:38:39   want to write my programs like you make [TS]

00:38:41   the language and give it to me like they [TS]

00:38:43   don't need to cross that word I think [TS]

00:38:45   swift evolution I've seen a lot of [TS]

00:38:47   languages I'm mailing lists and so [TS]

00:38:49   evolution is above average believe it or [TS]

00:38:52   not and maybe if you look in the outside [TS]

00:38:54   this is the first time you follow the [TS]

00:38:55   development of any language you can look [TS]

00:38:57   like dominated by academics and weird [TS]

00:38:59   and chaotic and a lot of bike shedding [TS]

00:39:01   but in the grand scheme of things there [TS]

00:39:03   they are above average and you know just [TS]

00:39:05   coming so early to say look we're gonna [TS]

00:39:07   have releases we're gonna exclude things [TS]

00:39:08   from them and then you know like there's [TS]

00:39:11   gonna be people discussing things enlist [TS]

00:39:12   even though they say they're excluded [TS]

00:39:13   from Swift serious but for like but in [TS]

00:39:15   general I think they're pretty well [TS]

00:39:17   behaved and I do want essentially [TS]

00:39:19   language nerds or people like people [TS]

00:39:21   with the skill the language designs [TS]

00:39:22   skill and you know RPG parlance or [TS]

00:39:24   whatever to be designing the language [TS]

00:39:26   rather than having a bunch of people who [TS]

00:39:28   just wanted to use the language throwing [TS]

00:39:31   out the first idea that pops into their [TS]

00:39:32   head that I think might make their [TS]

00:39:33   they're like beginning language [TS]

00:39:36   designers like I've been programming for [TS]

00:39:37   20 years and I think a language would be [TS]

00:39:39   cool how many languages have you design [TS]

00:39:41   have you tried doing that what does it [TS]

00:39:42   actually turn out to be so I like I like [TS]

00:39:45   language design as a separate skill [TS]

00:39:47   being developed among people who just do [TS]

00:39:49   that and seeing them do their thing [TS]

00:39:51   definitely does look weird [TS]

00:39:53   I endure I also and part of why I have [TS]

00:39:57   not adopted Swift more is that the idea [TS]

00:40:01   of of investing my time into a language [TS]

00:40:03   that is still very much a beta is a huge [TS]

00:40:06   turnoff for me like I I do not I have no [TS]

00:40:09   interest in participating in the design [TS]

00:40:12   of this language I have no interest in [TS]

00:40:13   beta testing this language for anybody [TS]

00:40:15   in the same way like I don't want to [TS]

00:40:17   beta test brakes on my car you know like [TS]

00:40:19   I want to get the final brakes thank you [TS]

00:40:21   and I want them to work and I don't have [TS]

00:40:22   to I don't want to ever have to think [TS]

00:40:23   about them or I never wanted to flick [TS]

00:40:25   out or fail or cause me undo undo work [TS]

00:40:27   it sound like a test loan or you don't [TS]

00:40:28   want a bid that's the brakes that set a [TS]

00:40:30   new firmware for your brakes last night [TS]

00:40:32   while you were asleep like for me like I [TS]

00:40:35   like especially like every summer when [TS]

00:40:37   during beta season when like all the new [TS]

00:40:39   stuff comes out and I see all the iOS [TS]

00:40:41   developers I know complaining about [TS]

00:40:42   something that Swift broke I am very [TS]

00:40:45   happy to not be very reliant on it right [TS]

00:40:47   now [TS]

00:40:48   and you know because the fact is like [TS]

00:40:50   I'm in a different developer I don't [TS]

00:40:52   have a lot of time I like and and the [TS]

00:40:54   time I have to spend coding I have to [TS]

00:40:57   spend it very wisely and the most [TS]

00:41:00   frustrating thing for me I which is true [TS]

00:41:02   of many people is fighting with my tools [TS]

00:41:04   and so any language or part of my [TS]

00:41:08   developer tool chain I'm going to try to [TS]

00:41:10   minimize reasons that I would have to [TS]

00:41:13   fight with it or the amount of work [TS]

00:41:15   that's going to require from me to use [TS]

00:41:17   and Swift while it does look like a you [TS]

00:41:20   know a fairly I'm sure it will be good [TS]

00:41:23   once it's done for me right now the [TS]

00:41:27   reality of using Swift is still a lot of [TS]

00:41:30   overhead and a lot of dealing with the [TS]

00:41:32   changes as they come and dealing with [TS]

00:41:34   weird things breaking sometimes and I [TS]

00:41:36   just want to wait till it's all settled [TS]

00:41:38   before I invest heavily into it because [TS]

00:41:40   I have zero interest in being an early [TS]

00:41:42   adopter for things like this all I want [TS]

00:41:44   is for it to work so I can spend my time [TS]

00:41:46   in other ways you know I will say that [TS]

00:41:49   there are certainly annoyances and and I [TS]

00:41:52   can't legitimately argue with anything [TS]

00:41:54   that you've said but it feels like it's [TS]

00:41:56   gotten a lot better over the last you [TS]

00:41:58   know six to 12 months say oh yeah and [TS]

00:42:01   and and the dabbling of done on the [TS]

00:42:04   Xcode 9 beta by and large [TS]

00:42:07   it's like it's a beta of course but by [TS]

00:42:09   and large it looks really solid and so I [TS]

00:42:11   think and of course you would say this [TS]

00:42:13   every year right now is the time to dive [TS]

00:42:15   in Marco it's all better than it ever [TS]

00:42:17   was and you know it's the Year Linux on [TS]

00:42:19   the desktop right it'll always be better [TS]

00:42:21   the next year but it is not nearly as [TS]

00:42:24   scary now as it once was but there's [TS]

00:42:26   still dragons back there from time to [TS]

00:42:27   time and I would also love to use Swift [TS]

00:42:30   on the server like that's that's one [TS]

00:42:32   thing that has me very interested in [TS]

00:42:34   learning it because like the idea of [TS]

00:42:35   learning one language that I can use in [TS]

00:42:38   both places is incredibly attractive to [TS]

00:42:39   me like that because that would be a [TS]

00:42:41   great use of you know if I'm gonna learn [TS]

00:42:44   more languages and master more [TS]

00:42:45   frameworks being able to use the same [TS]

00:42:48   one in both places basically makes it [TS]

00:42:50   twice as valuable to me so I would love [TS]

00:42:51   that [TS]

00:42:52   but it's all just so early and it to [TS]

00:42:55   have basics like concurrency not worked [TS]

00:42:58   out yet is like I just I need well yes [TS]

00:43:02   and go right like it's just as worked [TS]

00:43:03   out as the distant objective-c because [TS]

00:43:05   you still have GCD and whatnot it's just [TS]

00:43:07   that well I'm what I'm saying server I [TS]

00:43:08   mean Linux though well ok fair but it my [TS]

00:43:12   point is just that like concurrency I [TS]

00:43:14   agree with you should be worked out any [TS]

00:43:16   much better way but it's not like we're [TS]

00:43:18   handcuffed now it's just that it's the [TS]

00:43:21   existing GCD API [TS]

00:43:22   well again maybe not on the server but [TS]

00:43:24   at least on on the client it's the [TS]

00:43:26   existing GCD API and it actually is a [TS]

00:43:29   lot nicer in a lot of ways but but there [TS]

00:43:31   should be something like you know [TS]

00:43:33   everyone is calling for C sharps [TS]

00:43:34   async/await [TS]

00:43:35   so we'll see what happens we are [TS]

00:43:39   sponsored this week by Squarespace start [TS]

00:43:41   building your website today at [TS]

00:43:43   squarespace.com and enter code ATP at [TS]

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00:43:47   Squarespace sites are so easy to use [TS]

00:43:50   it's kind of a wonder why anybody does [TS]

00:43:52   anything else and it's kind of a one-way [TS]

00:43:54   door once you discover Squarespace once [TS]

00:43:57   you finally after hearing all these [TS]

00:43:58   podcast ads decide to finally try it out [TS]

00:44:01   most people don't go back to the old [TS]

00:44:03   ways because the old ways of hosting [TS]

00:44:05   websites are cumbersome and just really [TS]

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00:44:15   going down and all these things you [TS]

00:44:17   don't to worry about Squarespace and the [TS]

00:44:19   best thing about Squarespace for nerds [TS]

00:44:20   like us a lot [TS]

00:44:21   times if you're if you're the nerd in [TS]

00:44:22   your family oh and people people need a [TS]

00:44:25   website they will ask you to make it for [TS]

00:44:27   them and that's one thing you do not [TS]

00:44:28   want you don't want to be in that [TS]

00:44:29   business because Squarespace is so good [TS]

00:44:31   at it you can just tell them here go to [TS]

00:44:34   Squarespace if they won't do it set it [TS]

00:44:35   up for them go to Squarespace com use [TS]

00:44:37   code ATP for 10% off your first purchase [TS]

00:44:39   and set it up for them you can hand it [TS]

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00:44:44   you can now help yourself they can do [TS]

00:44:46   updates themselves they can customize [TS]

00:44:47   the design themselves and if they need [TS]

00:44:49   any help they go to Squarespace for [TS]

00:44:51   support not you it's all included it's [TS]

00:44:54   wonderful support you can host all kinds [TS]

00:44:56   of sites on Squarespace blogs portfolios [TS]

00:44:58   even stores podcasts stuff that's a [TS]

00:45:02   little hard to host and you know in [TS]

00:45:03   regular ways but Siqueiros has it all [TS]

00:45:05   built in it can do so much so check it [TS]

00:45:07   out today go to Squarespace com whether [TS]

00:45:09   it's a site for you or a site that [TS]

00:45:11   someone's asking you to make for them [TS]

00:45:12   get yourself out of the website hosting [TS]

00:45:15   business and let Squarespace do it [TS]

00:45:17   because it's easier the result is better [TS]

00:45:19   and then you don't have to do it and you [TS]

00:45:21   are free check it out today at [TS]

00:45:23   squarespace.com make sure you use offer [TS]

00:45:25   code ATP to get 10% off your first [TS]

00:45:27   purchase [TS]

00:45:28   Squarespace make your next move David [TS]

00:45:34   Klein writes about two years ago you [TS]

00:45:35   discuss women in tech and podcasting and [TS]

00:45:38   even exchange hosts how do you feel [TS]

00:45:40   today regarding women in tech this is a [TS]

00:45:43   very good question which stresses me out [TS]

00:45:45   because I feel like I'm gonna step on [TS]

00:45:48   some landmine here but that being said I [TS]

00:45:52   feel like we have made sweet not the [TS]

00:45:56   three of us like we as a as a community [TS]

00:45:58   have made a fair bit of positive strides [TS]

00:46:02   but still have a almost equal amount of [TS]

00:46:06   improvement left to make and I feel like [TS]

00:46:10   people are paying a lot more attention [TS]

00:46:11   to the fact that there's so much sexism [TS]

00:46:14   in tech and it's such a crummy place to [TS]

00:46:17   be a woman and I think the easiest [TS]

00:46:19   example of this is people like regular [TS]

00:46:22   people [TS]

00:46:22   knowing what a cesspool uber is slash [TS]

00:46:25   was and regular people deciding to use [TS]

00:46:29   lyft instead of uber which quick aside I [TS]

00:46:32   used lyft [TS]

00:46:34   in Chicago when Aaron and I were on our [TS]

00:46:36   10-year wedding anniversary and it was [TS]

00:46:38   great [TS]

00:46:39   worked great no different than uber and [TS]

00:46:42   so I highly recommend it but anyway so [TS]

00:46:44   we still have a ton of room like it's [TS]

00:46:47   one of those things where we have taken [TS]

00:46:48   like the tiniest littlest step forward [TS]

00:46:50   but there's still like 85,000 miles in [TS]

00:46:52   front of us so it's almost imperceptible [TS]

00:46:54   Marco I I basically agree I mean I I [TS]

00:46:59   unfortunately am NOT an expert in this [TS]

00:47:01   topic you know a few few men and tech [TS]

00:47:04   are you know there's that's not a [TS]

00:47:05   coincidence [TS]

00:47:06   um it's it's a huge problem and we still [TS]

00:47:11   have so so long to go but we are talking [TS]

00:47:15   about it now way more than it used to be [TS]

00:47:19   talked about so even though I I don't [TS]

00:47:22   have the knowledge to know whether it's [TS]

00:47:24   actually making progress really I have [TS]

00:47:27   no idea [TS]

00:47:28   I would guess - making slow progress but [TS]

00:47:31   we are talking about it and a lot more [TS]

00:47:33   people ourselves included are much more [TS]

00:47:37   conscientious of this being an issue [TS]

00:47:39   than we used to be and that has to help [TS]

00:47:43   - and there's obviously a lot more that [TS]

00:47:46   we can all do and that we need to do all [TS]

00:47:48   do but I do think that awareness is way [TS]

00:47:53   better than it was and that will slowly [TS]

00:47:56   start helping this problem yeah that's [TS]

00:47:59   like the first stage of all these things [TS]

00:48:01   is the very long process of getting [TS]

00:48:04   people to be aware that this is an issue [TS]

00:48:05   at all what's the issue what is the [TS]

00:48:07   problem is this the thing that exists [TS]

00:48:09   and that takes a really long time it's [TS]

00:48:11   kind of depressing to me because my [TS]

00:48:13   childhood like I felt like the whole the [TS]

00:48:15   one of the previous names of a larger [TS]

00:48:18   version this that the women's lib [TS]

00:48:19   movement back in the 60s and 70s and [TS]

00:48:22   even to the 80s was also in that stage [TS]

00:48:25   of like hey raise awareness like women's [TS]

00:48:27   liberation what do women do need to be [TS]

00:48:29   liberated from what do you mean right I [TS]

00:48:31   felt like we went through that and and [TS]

00:48:35   then like that knowledge was lost [TS]

00:48:37   somehow and now here we are back in the [TS]

00:48:39   tech sector which is a microcosm of the [TS]

00:48:41   larger world is like do we have to [TS]

00:48:43   relearn that sexism exists apparently [TS]

00:48:45   the answer is yes and we're learning it [TS]

00:48:47   better and [TS]

00:48:48   more thoroughly and with I think a [TS]

00:48:50   clearer I'd picture and not accepting as [TS]

00:48:54   many limitations as the previous you [TS]

00:48:56   know feminist movements and women's [TS]

00:48:57   liberation and all the other stuff but I [TS]

00:48:59   still very strongly feel that we are in [TS]

00:49:02   the awareness phase for everybody I've [TS]

00:49:04   you know for me as well like and I do [TS]

00:49:08   see some concrete signs of progress I [TS]

00:49:10   find myself seeing I mean from my [TS]

00:49:13   perspective a lot of what I see is like [TS]

00:49:14   who's speaking at this tech conference I [TS]

00:49:17   see and watch and hear about and get [TS]

00:49:20   forwarded to me more really good talks [TS]

00:49:23   by women at tech conferences as the [TS]

00:49:25   circles I travel in and my twitter or [TS]

00:49:26   whatever then I did several years ago [TS]

00:49:28   and I feel like that is progress [TS]

00:49:31   probably just progress in my awareness [TS]

00:49:32   that that is a thing and also progress [TS]

00:49:34   in the people I follow forwarding me [TS]

00:49:37   those things and you know I get says [TS]

00:49:40   like the fact that there can even be a [TS]

00:49:42   story that has any real-world [TS]

00:49:44   consequences to a company about hey this [TS]

00:49:46   company is run by a bunch of sexist [TS]

00:49:47   jerks and that actually like is a I [TS]

00:49:49   think we hear about and be something [TS]

00:49:51   anything literally anything happens [TS]

00:49:53   about it maybe not the right thing maybe [TS]

00:49:55   not the best things but something [TS]

00:49:56   happens like if one extra person deletes [TS]

00:49:58   their app like that is a tiny bit of [TS]

00:50:01   progress but yeah that's that's pretty [TS]

00:50:04   much how I feel how it's going and about [TS]

00:50:06   us specifically on the show like we're [TS]

00:50:09   still we still talk about it we still [TS]

00:50:11   discuss it we still try to do what we [TS]

00:50:13   can in the ways that we can you know [TS]

00:50:15   it's it's a continuing struggle yep [TS]

00:50:18   robin christopherson writes in which if [TS]

00:50:21   any of the many rumored changes to the [TS]

00:50:23   new iphone would actually make you [TS]

00:50:24   decide not to upgrade if it comes to [TS]

00:50:27   pass [TS]

00:50:28   i'm gonna go on a very small rant about [TS]

00:50:31   this i don't understand people who say [TS]

00:50:34   and i can't think of a specific specific [TS]

00:50:36   example of oh actually the touch bar is [TS]

00:50:38   a great example i will never like the [TS]

00:50:41   touch bar and I will never buy a Mac [TS]

00:50:42   that has a touch bar that to me just [TS]

00:50:45   doesn't make sense because it stands to [TS]

00:50:48   reason that at least for portable Mac's [TS]

00:50:50   the touch bar is going to be the future [TS]

00:50:52   probably across the line it may not be [TS]

00:50:53   for five years or something like that [TS]

00:50:55   but it will probably be the future and [TS]

00:50:56   even if the touch bar if you think [TS]

00:50:58   that's a crummy example it doesn't [TS]

00:50:59   matter my point is like [TS]

00:51:01   just get on the bus the bus is pulling [TS]

00:51:04   away get on the bus and you may not love [TS]

00:51:07   it but get on the bus because what's the [TS]

00:51:08   alternative go to Windows ha have fun [TS]

00:51:10   and and so to me [TS]

00:51:13   there may be something that I don't like [TS]

00:51:15   about the new iPhones so for the sake of [TS]

00:51:17   example I'm skeptical that I would [TS]

00:51:19   terribly enjoy the face on lock and I [TS]

00:51:22   would you know and I suspect I wouldn't [TS]

00:51:23   miss touch ID but I mean I will [TS]

00:51:26   certainly give it a shot and I will [TS]

00:51:29   certainly give it a shot and if it ends [TS]

00:51:31   up that I like touch ID better well then [TS]

00:51:33   that's a stinky part of the new iPhone [TS]

00:51:35   but everything else will be amazing so [TS]

00:51:37   it'll all even itself out so I don't [TS]

00:51:40   really understand the question but I [TS]

00:51:42   don't really understand this question do [TS]

00:51:44   you think the narrower view they're [TS]

00:51:45   asking would make you not want to [TS]

00:51:47   upgrade and when I saw this question I [TS]

00:51:48   thought about like touch ID on the back [TS]

00:51:51   if they couldn't if they can't get the [TS]

00:51:53   touch ADEA under the screen for this [TS]

00:51:55   generation but we know for a fact those [TS]

00:51:58   other phones do this that fingerprint [TS]

00:52:00   sensing under screen is a technology [TS]

00:52:01   that exists it just you know wasn't up [TS]

00:52:04   to Apple's caliber yet for whatever [TS]

00:52:05   reason I might say if I was if it was my [TS]

00:52:07   upgrade year which isn't by the way I [TS]

00:52:09   might say oh I'm not gonna upgrade to [TS]

00:52:12   see this phone I'll wait till next year [TS]

00:52:14   when hopefully they'll have that sorted [TS]

00:52:16   out or we even wait to the next [TS]

00:52:17   generation please you know I have no [TS]

00:52:18   problem waiting oh it's not like Casey [TS]

00:52:20   was saying like oh I'm never gonna buy [TS]

00:52:21   with touch bar like obviously eventually [TS]

00:52:23   you're gonna have to get a new phone and [TS]

00:52:25   eventually I would choose to get an [TS]

00:52:26   iPhone but specifically like oh if they [TS]

00:52:28   make a new form factor and it's the [TS]

00:52:30   first male year and they had to make [TS]

00:52:31   weird compromises and such ideas in the [TS]

00:52:33   back even if it's just as simple as like [TS]

00:52:34   they put touch ID in the back but I've [TS]

00:52:36   never used touch ID in the back I'm not [TS]

00:52:37   sure I like it I rather let a bunch of [TS]

00:52:39   my friends who I know really well buy [TS]

00:52:41   this phone and tell me about it so the [TS]

00:52:43   next year I'll know whether I think I'll [TS]

00:52:45   like it or like just play with them to [TS]

00:52:46   store whatever so yes there are lots of [TS]

00:52:47   weird things involving the phone that [TS]

00:52:49   would make me decide not to upgrade but [TS]

00:52:52   I don't think there's many things that [TS]

00:52:54   would make me decide I'm never going to [TS]

00:52:55   buy an iPhone again and that's that's a [TS]

00:52:57   different question [TS]

00:52:58   yeah I mean I I think pretty similarly I [TS]

00:53:02   mean look we all know I'm gonna buy it [TS]

00:53:03   regardless so why why even bother I mean [TS]

00:53:07   you know III think the answer is you [TS]

00:53:10   know I'm gonna do what I always do which [TS]

00:53:12   is I'm going to buy the new thing [TS]

00:53:15   immediately and then I complained or [TS]

00:53:17   anything that's worse about it fair [TS]

00:53:19   enough that's typically how these things [TS]

00:53:21   tend to go I did not want to answer this [TS]

00:53:26   question because this is another example [TS]

00:53:28   of where I don't care [TS]

00:53:31   but somebody and I think that person's [TS]

00:53:33   name might be John siracusa has decided [TS]

00:53:35   we should answer this question so [TS]

00:53:36   stephen sand off writes tabs or spaces I [TS]

00:53:39   honestly don't even have the faintest [TS]

00:53:41   idea what my editors set to it's [TS]

00:53:43   whatever the default for X code is don't [TS]

00:53:45   care your monster don't even know I [TS]

00:53:49   don't even know just pick one [TS]

00:53:51   actually I can say the same thing so I [TS]

00:53:54   know what it is in text made but for my [TS]

00:53:56   iOS code or next code I actually have no [TS]

00:53:58   idea which one it is but I will say in [TS]

00:54:01   text made it's spaces but I this is the [TS]

00:54:03   kind of like I'd feel about this a few [TS]

00:54:05   weeks ago like it doesn't really matter [TS]

00:54:07   because good tools let you switch [TS]

00:54:10   between one or the other with like one [TS]

00:54:11   command so it's it's it really doesn't [TS]

00:54:14   matter at all no no no that's something [TS]

00:54:17   a tab user would say it totally matter [TS]

00:54:19   so let me tell you why so first of all [TS]

00:54:21   I'm my ants aren't abs versus spaces is [TS]

00:54:24   spaces and the reason I say space is [TS]

00:54:26   because spaces are the same size [TS]

00:54:27   visually everywhere but the whole point [TS]

00:54:31   in tabs I thought is that you I can [TS]

00:54:34   choose to have my tabs be a thousand [TS]

00:54:36   right okay yep so now tabs now it's like [TS]

00:54:38   okay well tabs are semantic in don't [TS]

00:54:42   tell me how big has to be the problem [TS]

00:54:44   with that is that I think good [TS]

00:54:48   formatting in most not maybe some less [TS]

00:54:53   in some programming languages good [TS]

00:54:55   formatting needs to be done has [TS]

00:54:58   instances in which you want to indent by [TS]

00:55:02   less than one indentation level to align [TS]

00:55:06   things right and if you use spaces [TS]

00:55:09   everywhere there is no ambiguity and you [TS]

00:55:13   can make it look like how you want it to [TS]

00:55:15   look like if you use tabs [TS]

00:55:17   some Joker is gonna set their tab to two [TS]

00:55:19   and someone else is gonna have it set to [TS]

00:55:21   four and someone's gonna have it set to [TS]

00:55:23   eight and the part and the line where [TS]

00:55:25   you use tabs but then use space to align [TS]

00:55:27   a bunch of things is gonna look crazy [TS]

00:55:28   pants [TS]

00:55:29   spaces is the correct answer but I'm [TS]

00:55:30   forced to use tabs at work and have for [TS]

00:55:32   many years and so if you're working [TS]

00:55:34   programmer you got to do what you got to [TS]

00:55:36   do with the actual entrance spaces and [TS]

00:55:37   and Chris lat agrees with me so there [TS]

00:55:39   you go and that's all that really [TS]

00:55:42   matters I bet that's gonna meet what [TS]

00:55:43   eventually drives you to quit your job [TS]

00:55:44   like eventually one day yours you're [TS]

00:55:47   gonna hit that tab key for the last time [TS]

00:55:49   and you're like that's it I'm done no I [TS]

00:55:51   mean you still hate you still hit the [TS]

00:55:52   tab key even wanted to space this but [TS]

00:55:54   like I you I work changed both my brace [TS]

00:55:57   style and the indenting character but [TS]

00:55:59   this is what it means to be a working [TS]

00:56:00   programmer it's too far wait what what [TS]

00:56:02   is your preferred brace style [TS]

00:56:04   many years ago I used bsd-style opening [TS]

00:56:07   and closing on the same column mm-hmm [TS]

00:56:10   for basically of my entire career up to [TS]

00:56:12   like maybe 10 years ago and then I [TS]

00:56:13   switched to forcibly switch to KN are no [TS]

00:56:17   coddled else's come on people I'm a K&R [TS]

00:56:20   person myself you know I used to hide [TS]

00:56:22   first why I had no idea those were the [TS]

00:56:24   two like I I did know the names for [TS]

00:56:26   those two styles but I used to be [TS]

00:56:28   violently devoutly in favor of what did [TS]

00:56:32   you say BSD where all of the openings in [TS]

00:56:34   Iran might be almond it's the one where [TS]

00:56:36   the the opening curly is underneath the [TS]

00:56:38   eye and if right right right that's [TS]

00:56:40   that's the way I used to be just and I [TS]

00:56:43   was passionately about Italy almost as [TS]

00:56:45   bad as I am about people who say jiff [TS]

00:56:47   like I passionately believed that that [TS]

00:56:50   you have to put it under eye and those [TS]

00:56:52   monsters that sage if that also put the [TS]

00:56:55   the opening brace at the end of the line [TS]

00:56:57   or just without help and overtime [TS]

00:57:00   similar story I think because I started [TS]

00:57:02   writing a fair bit of JavaScript I ended [TS]

00:57:04   up kind of switching to the other style [TS]

00:57:07   where you have you know if something [TS]

00:57:10   opened open brace new line like it's an [TS]

00:57:13   important part in every programmer who [TS]

00:57:15   doesn't work for themselves in a single [TS]

00:57:16   person shop and they're in their careers [TS]

00:57:18   is becoming not just multi-language [TS]

00:57:21   fluent but becoming able to and you've [TS]

00:57:23   rework on open source projects your [TS]

00:57:24   forces this to becoming able to write [TS]

00:57:26   code and the style demanded by the thing [TS]

00:57:28   that you're doing whether it's a job or [TS]

00:57:29   an open source project or whatever you [TS]

00:57:31   can't I mean you can be Precious about [TS]

00:57:32   it and have a preferred thing but you [TS]

00:57:34   have to be able to get the job done in [TS]

00:57:36   whatever language are formatting that is [TS]

00:57:39   dictated by the mob you just have to [TS]

00:57:40   it's just practically and [TS]

00:57:42   you know in the end like I was also [TS]

00:57:44   pretty strongly about opening curly [TS]

00:57:45   under the little eye and I still think [TS]

00:57:47   it's the style that makes more sense but [TS]

00:57:49   you know you get over it a few years of [TS]

00:57:53   using kar and you're like okay like it's [TS]

00:57:55   fine [TS]

00:57:55   and it's actually difficult if you get [TS]

00:57:58   into a groove to switch back and forth [TS]

00:58:00   like if the mode switch between them you [TS]

00:58:02   just your fingers will you'll find them [TS]

00:58:03   doing the things they do and you have to [TS]

00:58:05   switch back but like that's life that's [TS]

00:58:07   programming for you I'm actually the [TS]

00:58:08   reason why I use knr style is that I [TS]

00:58:11   used to use the brace hump of the eye [TS]

00:58:13   but like in college and like as I was [TS]

00:58:15   teaching myself how to program and going [TS]

00:58:17   through college like I used that style [TS]

00:58:18   and then my first job you strictly KN [TS]

00:58:21   our style and they just like broke me of [TS]

00:58:23   that habit and then that became my style [TS]

00:58:25   anyway well we can all agree tabs versus [TS]

00:58:28   spaces it doesn't really matter but the [TS]

00:58:31   right answer spaces unless you use two [TS]

00:58:34   spaces in which case you're an animal I [TS]

00:58:36   think I could probably get behind that [TS]

00:58:39   Spencer Holbrook writes in what low [TS]

00:58:41   level part of Apple stack would you like [TS]

00:58:43   to see replaced next hfs+ day a PFS [TS]

00:58:46   Objective C to Swift OpenGL to metal etc [TS]

00:58:48   I think I'm most anxious and most [TS]

00:58:52   interested in HFS+ to a PFS and I can't [TS]

00:58:56   think of another example if top my head [TS]

00:58:57   I'm sure John you'll probably have one [TS]

00:58:58   but none of these are really rev my [TS]

00:59:02   engine that much sorry John markula [TS]

00:59:04   asking you what you want to see replace [TS]

00:59:06   next they listed a bunch of ones they're [TS]

00:59:07   already doing I'm so following all of [TS]

00:59:10   that oh yeah wish list I don't even know [TS]

00:59:14   I'd have to think about that I'm not [TS]

00:59:16   sure to be honest I'll pass on this one [TS]

00:59:18   Marco what do you think [TS]

00:59:19   yeah I'm sure John's gonna have the best [TS]

00:59:21   answers here but thank you for going to [TS]

00:59:24   me first I don't have to follow him my [TS]

00:59:26   boring answers are basically I have to [TS]

00:59:28   it's like if the if the API framework or [TS]

00:59:32   if the UI framework is is the correct [TS]

00:59:34   level for this question I would love to [TS]

00:59:37   see what surpasses app kit on the Mac if [TS]

00:59:40   ever oh that's a good one actually [TS]

00:59:41   that's very good that's not low level so [TS]

00:59:44   if you go a little bit lower level what [TS]

00:59:45   I would also like to see is another [TS]

00:59:47   thing on the Mac actually I would like [TS]

00:59:49   to see Mac sandbox and completely [TS]

00:59:51   rethought and matured and a rethinking [TS]

00:59:54   of the Mac security model with [TS]

00:59:56   so like basically bringing a more I Oh s [TS]

00:59:56   so like basically bringing a more I Oh s [TS]

01:00:00   like sandboxing environment to the Mac [TS]

01:00:02   so it's so to do things like you could [TS]

01:00:04   you could knowingly safely install an [TS]

01:00:07   application and then delete that [TS]

01:00:09   application and know that everything [TS]

01:00:11   that goes with it gets deleted no they [TS]

01:00:13   could only write to and read from [TS]

01:00:14   certain directories that are easy to [TS]

01:00:16   manage and and isolated from other [TS]

01:00:18   things and can't like every app that you [TS]

01:00:20   install as you the user account can't [TS]

01:00:22   read your entire user directory and they [TS]

01:00:25   started down this path with sandboxing [TS]

01:00:26   whenever that was like eight years ago [TS]

01:00:27   and they they did like the most bare [TS]

01:00:30   bones basic version and then just [TS]

01:00:32   stopped and they'd never matured it and [TS]

01:00:34   as I read and because of the version [TS]

01:00:37   they did and and the the various [TS]

01:00:39   shortcomings had had it basically made [TS]

01:00:41   it so that most apps could not be [TS]

01:00:43   reasonably sandbox if they did anything [TS]

01:00:44   cool at all and I bet there's oh I bet [TS]

01:00:47   there's a better balance to be struck [TS]

01:00:48   now in the modern day with what we know [TS]

01:00:51   with where the software you know world [TS]

01:00:53   is where the economics and where the [TS]

01:00:55   ecosystem has gone since then I would [TS]

01:00:57   love to see a more modern more secure [TS]

01:01:01   version of sandboxing on the Mac that [TS]

01:01:04   brings it closer to iOS in those [TS]

01:01:05   security and and user assuredness ways [TS]

01:01:08   but that still has the power of Mac [TS]

01:01:12   software available in various you know [TS]

01:01:14   new clever ways I know that's a very [TS]

01:01:16   hard thing to solve but there's also you [TS]

01:01:19   know a I think we need to solve it and [TS]

01:01:21   be I think there's massive gains to be [TS]

01:01:23   had there when it is solved all right [TS]

01:01:25   John those probably there's a bunch of [TS]

01:01:28   stuff all the way down to the kernel [TS]

01:01:30   itself that I give this to you but the [TS]

01:01:31   reason I put this in because I don't [TS]

01:01:33   have any really good answers for little [TS]

01:01:35   stuff that I'm dying for except for one [TS]

01:01:37   and it's actually mentioned in here they [TS]

01:01:38   said you know HFS tape EFS Objective C a [TS]

01:01:41   swift OpenGL the metal the OpenGL the [TS]

01:01:44   metal one is the one I actually have [TS]

01:01:45   objections to I don't like I understand [TS]

01:01:48   metal and it's good thing to have and an [TS]

01:01:50   Apple is heavily behind it but I think [TS]

01:01:53   Apple should still have a world class [TS]

01:01:55   open Jam fomentation I know that's a [TS]

01:01:57   tough sell bits like what do we even [TS]

01:01:58   need that for we're all in on metal [TS]

01:02:01   battle is the future blah blah blah like [TS]

01:02:03   I don't that thing you can get rid of [TS]

01:02:05   metal but I OpenGL or Vulcan or whatever [TS]

01:02:08   is still a thing and it is still worth [TS]

01:02:12   Apple [TS]

01:02:14   not just maintaining but like you know [TS]

01:02:17   advance it like either don't have it at [TS]

01:02:20   all it's kind of like flash like look if [TS]

01:02:22   you think it's viable to have a web [TS]

01:02:23   browser that flash don't support it at [TS]

01:02:25   all don't don't just say our flash [TS]

01:02:26   emulation is slow and so people won't [TS]

01:02:27   use it and they'll migrate age just [TS]

01:02:29   don't support it at all either don't [TS]

01:02:31   support at all and if you think you [TS]

01:02:32   can't you know oh we can't drop opengl [TS]

01:02:34   we have to have it our whole West runs [TS]

01:02:35   well then make a good version of it like [TS]

01:02:37   I was this came up recently in the [TS]

01:02:39   article I think KC red was he retweeted [TS]

01:02:41   it but I read earlier about the dolphin [TS]

01:02:44   GameCube emulator and all interesting [TS]

01:02:47   technical problems KC you can have a [TS]

01:02:49   show out there put that one link in the [TS]

01:02:50   show notes [TS]

01:02:52   lots of good articles on that and it [TS]

01:02:55   goes through some fun technical details [TS]

01:02:57   and then towards the bottom of this [TS]

01:02:58   really nice article it says it here's a [TS]

01:03:00   section for Mac users none of this is [TS]

01:03:01   relevant to you because your OpenGL [TS]

01:03:02   stack is a piece of crap and none of the [TS]

01:03:05   features that we even talked about even [TS]

01:03:06   exists in your open in GL position let [TS]

01:03:08   alone exists in our performance so screw [TS]

01:03:10   you guys and it's like look Apple it's [TS]

01:03:12   embarrassing I wish I want them you know [TS]

01:03:14   and what did we lose by that we don't [TS]

01:03:16   get to have a cool GameCube Emily ome [TS]

01:03:18   later unless we boot into Windows or [TS]

01:03:19   Linux for crying a Linux so I hope a [TS]

01:03:23   pole gets their act together with OpenGL [TS]

01:03:27   you don't support it at all and then [TS]

01:03:29   figure out what you have to do to make [TS]

01:03:30   your computer still viable or actually [TS]

01:03:32   support it and be awesome that was not [TS]

01:03:35   what I expected but I was pretty good [TS]

01:03:37   answer we our sponsor this week by [TS]

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01:04:46   betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

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01:04:52   investing made better Jacy Calhoun [TS]

01:04:58   writes how about an update on how the [TS]

01:05:01   overcast advertising is working out so [TS]

01:05:03   John no I'm just kidding [TS]

01:05:06   I mean this short answer is it's great I [TS]

01:05:09   mean there's there's not a whole lot to [TS]

01:05:11   say on it this is so they're talking [TS]

01:05:13   about like how I switched a few months [TS]

01:05:14   ago to selling my own direct ads and now [TS]

01:05:19   they're entirely for podcast that first [TS]

01:05:21   it was like for podcasts and or websites [TS]

01:05:23   the podcasts have been buying them so [TS]

01:05:26   much that I actually recently stopped [TS]

01:05:29   selling them for anything that's not a [TS]

01:05:30   podcast that the capability is still [TS]

01:05:32   there if I choose to use it later but I [TS]

01:05:34   don't think I will need to for a while I [TS]

01:05:37   worked out some various like pricing and [TS]

01:05:40   inventory level tweaks over the last few [TS]

01:05:42   months just working out like how should [TS]

01:05:45   these things be priced how many should I [TS]

01:05:47   have any category what should the [TS]

01:05:48   categories even be but I think it's [TS]

01:05:51   pretty stable now it's and and it's it's [TS]

01:05:53   making good money it's making something [TS]

01:05:56   like ten times what I was making from [TS]

01:05:58   Google ad whatever their AdMob that's [TS]

01:06:01   what it does the other the mobile app [TS]

01:06:02   thing so it's going great and I as long [TS]

01:06:05   as this continues to sell at all [TS]

01:06:07   reasonably I don't see myself changing [TS]

01:06:10   the model any time soon from your [TS]

01:06:12   analytics or whatever you've got running [TS]

01:06:14   against these ads does it seem like [TS]

01:06:16   they're working like obviously they're [TS]

01:06:18   working in the sense that your ki you [TS]

01:06:19   keep selling them but are they working [TS]

01:06:21   in the sense that it seems like they're [TS]

01:06:22   pushing subscriptions to to shows and [TS]

01:06:24   all that yeah I mean I have that info [TS]

01:06:27   and I share that like the advertisers [TS]

01:06:28   when you buy an ad they see in their [TS]

01:06:31   little control panel on the website how [TS]

01:06:33   many impressions how many tabs and how [TS]

01:06:35   many subscriptions it has gotten they [TS]

01:06:38   don't see anything else but they see [TS]

01:06:39   those three numbers and that's [TS]

01:06:41   honestly I haven't collect anything else [TS]

01:06:42   that's all I collect so and and that [TS]

01:06:45   plays into how I price them like I try [TS]

01:06:46   to keep the cost per new subscriber [TS]

01:06:48   within a certain range the the challenge [TS]

01:06:52   in pricing these ads is not trying to [TS]

01:06:55   people to buy them it's it's trying to [TS]

01:06:56   avoid the temptation to raise prices [TS]

01:06:58   like crazy because they're selling out [TS]

01:07:00   frequently and I it's hard for me to [TS]

01:07:04   know like what should any listener be [TS]

01:07:06   worth like what range should I keep this [TS]

01:07:09   price in the way I've been pricing it [TS]

01:07:11   I've been keeping it between one and two [TS]

01:07:12   dollars for most categories but certain [TS]

01:07:15   categories like like I recently [TS]

01:07:17   separated out business podcast into [TS]

01:07:19   their own category because like it you [TS]

01:07:21   know I ran the numbers like what is it [TS]

01:07:23   what is a listener to or sorry what's a [TS]

01:07:24   listener to a tipi worth and if you've [TS]

01:07:26   run the numbers over the course of you [TS]

01:07:28   know certain time spans or like a year [TS]

01:07:30   or two its ends up being like you know [TS]

01:07:32   five bucks something like that right and [TS]

01:07:34   so I thought if I keep the prices [TS]

01:07:36   between one and two dollars that that [TS]

01:07:37   keeps it you know pretty good pretty [TS]

01:07:39   compelling for most people but certain [TS]

01:07:41   categories like like business business [TS]

01:07:44   podcasts are huge first of all like [TS]

01:07:46   that's huge market for like business you [TS]

01:07:48   know tips and tricks and writing books [TS]

01:07:50   and everything and many of them monetize [TS]

01:07:52   not just by ads but by selling you books [TS]

01:07:55   e-books conferences seminars you know [TS]

01:07:59   stuff like that so they might have a [TS]

01:08:01   very different valuation of what a new [TS]

01:08:03   subscriber is worth to them and so and [TS]

01:08:06   and this is true of many many of the [TS]

01:08:07   different different you know categories [TS]

01:08:10   of podcasts and and some of them the [TS]

01:08:12   people don't care what Ana listeners [TS]

01:08:14   worth them they just want dates and [TS]

01:08:15   listeners and they have a new show maybe [TS]

01:08:16   and they want to know when I get it [TS]

01:08:18   basically going from zero and so they [TS]

01:08:20   use the ads for that if you look at it [TS]

01:08:22   purely as like how should I price these [TS]

01:08:25   in in terms of like pure demand they [TS]

01:08:28   keep selling out so I should price them [TS]

01:08:30   way higher but if I price them higher [TS]

01:08:32   we're gonna start getting into numbers [TS]

01:08:34   that that if you think about the numbers [TS]

01:08:36   if you run the numbers of like what is a [TS]

01:08:37   listener worth it starts not to make [TS]

01:08:39   sense for a lot of people so I don't [TS]

01:08:41   want to breach that level so basically [TS]

01:08:43   the answer is I think I even could make [TS]

01:08:45   more money from it if I tried to but I [TS]

01:08:47   would be afraid if I did that that I [TS]

01:08:49   would that I would have would have like [TS]

01:08:52   a brief period of making more money [TS]

01:08:53   followed by a crash [TS]

01:08:55   as a lot of advertisers started seeing [TS]

01:08:57   you know this actually isn't worth what [TS]

01:08:58   I'm paying for these users and starts [TS]

01:09:00   bailing out so I want to keep it [TS]

01:09:01   reasonable so that I have the most [TS]

01:09:02   advertisers as possible but you know [TS]

01:09:04   besides that that minor concern which i [TS]

01:09:06   think is largely alleviated now by just [TS]

01:09:08   time and stability it's going great [TS]

01:09:12   it really is going great and it's one of [TS]

01:09:14   the only advertising things I've ever [TS]

01:09:15   seen [TS]

01:09:16   where basically all the parties win you [TS]

01:09:20   know because I'm not showing you ads for [TS]

01:09:22   Viagra of mattresses like I'm showing [TS]

01:09:24   you ads for podcasts in categories that [TS]

01:09:28   you subscribe to while you're using a [TS]

01:09:30   podcast app in a way that respects your [TS]

01:09:32   privacy that isn't a huge burden that [TS]

01:09:35   doesn't get in your way that like it's a [TS]

01:09:37   great setup and you know it this [TS]

01:09:40   obviously is not a method that every app [TS]

01:09:42   can do so it's not like I'm not saying [TS]

01:09:45   like every app should monetize the way [TS]

01:09:46   I've monetized because well you simply [TS]

01:09:48   can't it doesn't apply but for what I am [TS]

01:09:51   doing [TS]

01:09:52   it's working great and I have I have [TS]

01:09:55   more advertisers who want to buy ads [TS]

01:09:58   than I have inventory to sell them and [TS]

01:10:00   that's wonderful that's really awesome [TS]

01:10:03   John any additional thoughts on that [TS]

01:10:05   nope [TS]

01:10:06   all right Edgar Perez writes in and this [TS]

01:10:10   is the first one that I noticed in this [TS]

01:10:12   context but I've seen this come up a lot [TS]

01:10:14   particularly after our one Pastore [TS]

01:10:16   discussion and he writes to say I agree [TS]

01:10:19   the $3 a month for an app service is [TS]

01:10:20   reasonable but what if all the apps I [TS]

01:10:22   use monthly want $3 a month can't let [TS]

01:10:24   apps kill the Mac I understand what [TS]

01:10:28   people are driving out and again Edgar [TS]

01:10:29   isn't the first person to say this you [TS]

01:10:30   know if every app I use is a [TS]

01:10:32   subscription Apple suddenly I won't be [TS]

01:10:33   able to afford anything anymore and I [TS]

01:10:36   get that but I I think in my eyes if [TS]

01:10:41   everything I used became a subscription [TS]

01:10:44   I would either change my usage or I [TS]

01:10:46   would pay for it all and I don't it [TS]

01:10:49   since we're now deep into the second [TS]

01:10:52   episode I don't remember if it was this [TS]

01:10:53   episode of last week we talked about ad [TS]

01:10:55   blockers I think it was last week which [TS]

01:10:56   was really two hours ago I had talked [TS]

01:10:58   about ad blockers and how you know Marco [TS]

01:11:00   you were saying well if the Nant blocker [TS]

01:11:02   shows up then I'll just leave and I just [TS]

01:11:04   won't read that content it was this one [TS]

01:11:06   peeler [TS]

01:11:06   no wasn't this one okay thanks [TS]

01:11:09   I'm getting tired it's nearly midnight [TS]

01:11:11   but anyway so point being you know I [TS]

01:11:14   think it's a similar thing so like for [TS]

01:11:16   me and this is just for Casey it may not [TS]

01:11:18   be for others but for me I absolutely [TS]

01:11:20   will pay for one password and I will [TS]

01:11:22   absolutely pay for day one but maybe [TS]

01:11:24   your you know the the listener here [TS]

01:11:26   maybe your a day one user but you don't [TS]

01:11:28   love it you just kind of like it and [TS]

01:11:30   maybe it's not worth paying for in a [TS]

01:11:33   regular basis so you just stop using day [TS]

01:11:35   one and use Apple notes or something [TS]

01:11:37   like that that's okay that's an option [TS]

01:11:39   like that will work in life will go on [TS]

01:11:42   but I don't know that's just the way I [TS]

01:11:44   look at it John what do you think if you [TS]

01:11:47   had remembered back to actual last week [TS]

01:11:49   I address this on the 1password episode [TS]

01:11:52   I said look not every I did it from the [TS]

01:11:54   perspective of an app developer not [TS]

01:11:55   every app can sustain subscription [TS]

01:11:57   pricing your app has to be valuable [TS]

01:11:59   enough to enough people to sustain [TS]

01:12:01   subscription price and so I don't think [TS]

01:12:02   there's any fear that every single app [TS]

01:12:05   is going to be you know three dollars a [TS]

01:12:07   month because there are app categories [TS]

01:12:09   entire categories let alone individual [TS]

01:12:11   apps that can't sustain it but they [TS]

01:12:13   don't deliver that much value to people [TS]

01:12:15   so you have to you have to know your [TS]

01:12:18   application and your marker to say is [TS]

01:12:19   any are enough people willing to [TS]

01:12:21   subscribe to this people probably aren't [TS]

01:12:24   gonna pay three dollars a month for a [TS]

01:12:25   far nap all right even if you have new [TS]

01:12:27   parts released every month like they're [TS]

01:12:29   they're a whole you know you have to [TS]

01:12:31   turn you'd have to turn into like a free [TS]

01:12:33   for free-to-play you know casino [TS]

01:12:36   gambling exploit human nature type [TS]

01:12:38   service to get that and then it's a [TS]

01:12:39   different kind of app entirely right so [TS]

01:12:40   I this is a fear that I don't think is a [TS]

01:12:42   real thing if you're a customer this [TS]

01:12:45   will take care of itself don't like get [TS]

01:12:46   the price don't buy it [TS]

01:12:47   right and from a developer's perspective [TS]

01:12:49   if you don't want to be on the losing [TS]

01:12:51   end of that problem taking care of [TS]

01:12:52   itself you should know you know if if we [TS]

01:12:56   can't develop this without subscription [TS]

01:12:59   pricing make sure that it is valuable [TS]

01:13:01   enough to enough people to justify [TS]

01:13:03   subscription pricing game one password [TS]

01:13:04   certainly is because a lot of people [TS]

01:13:06   find it a very valuable thing and they [TS]

01:13:08   want it to work on an ongoing basis and [TS]

01:13:09   they understand the ongoing maintenance [TS]

01:13:11   costs and they're willing to pay for it [TS]

01:13:13   but you're far adapt might not be so I [TS]

01:13:15   would say don't worry about this too [TS]

01:13:17   much and if you don't want to pay for a [TS]

01:13:18   subscription don't pay for it I mean [TS]

01:13:21   every time so [TS]

01:13:22   pricing comes up people bring up this [TS]

01:13:24   issue of what's gonna happen when [TS]

01:13:28   everything subscription and everyone [TS]

01:13:29   gets tired of it and stops paying for it [TS]

01:13:32   you know it's not something like that [TS]

01:13:32   yeah [TS]

01:13:33   the idea of subscription fatigue and you [TS]

01:13:37   know we've been able to charge [TS]

01:13:38   subscription prices now for a little [TS]

01:13:40   while and there's that's just not [TS]

01:13:42   happening like I have not seen any sign [TS]

01:13:44   that that's happening I think this is [TS]

01:13:46   one of those things that the market just [TS]

01:13:47   sorts out itself you know like John said [TS]

01:13:49   like most apps aren't willing to or [TS]

01:13:52   sorry most customers aren't willing to [TS]

01:13:54   pay for most of their apps but there are [TS]

01:13:57   they wouldn't be buying a $36 a year [TS]

01:14:01   upgrade either instead of paying $3 a [TS]

01:14:04   month like the fact is most apps have a [TS]

01:14:07   lot of competition and aren't that [TS]

01:14:09   necessary for most people so they're [TS]

01:14:11   gonna have a hard time matter how they [TS]

01:14:12   charge but the apps that are that are [TS]

01:14:14   really valuable to people that are [TS]

01:14:16   difficult for people to go without or [TS]

01:14:19   they're required for them to do their [TS]

01:14:20   work or whatever else or that appeal to [TS]

01:14:22   markets that don't care about spending 3 [TS]

01:14:24   dollars a month they can do this just [TS]

01:14:26   fine I don't think the whole like [TS]

01:14:29   slippery slope argument is like once [TS]

01:14:31   what's all the apps go this way no one's [TS]

01:14:32   gonna want to pay any more I just don't [TS]

01:14:35   think it's happening like I think we [TS]

01:14:37   wouldn't we would have seen that by now [TS]

01:14:39   we would have seen that at least [TS]

01:14:40   starting and it's just not most apps are [TS]

01:14:43   not even trying to charge subscription [TS]

01:14:46   rates and the ones that are mostly do [TS]

01:14:49   okay I agree [TS]

01:14:52   dude done writes in is it technically [TS]

01:14:54   possible for Apple to make second gen [TS]

01:14:55   airpot noise-canceling or [TS]

01:14:57   noise-isolating I really really want [TS]

01:14:59   that I don't see why not I think the [TS]

01:15:02   problem with that is it's even more [TS]

01:15:03   processing to be done thus even more [TS]

01:15:05   battery usage but I mean at this point I [TS]

01:15:07   don't know that it would be a tremendous [TS]

01:15:09   difference and certainly noise-isolating [TS]

01:15:12   I mean they could change the look of [TS]

01:15:14   what of these things and change where [TS]

01:15:16   they sit within your ear but I don't see [TS]

01:15:19   any reason why I wouldn't work Marco I [TS]

01:15:21   mean you basically got I mean the noise [TS]

01:15:24   cancellation requires a microphone on [TS]

01:15:26   the outside and then DSP on the inside [TS]

01:15:29   to basically emit sound waves on the [TS]

01:15:32   inside but in you know mixed into your [TS]

01:15:34   sound [TS]

01:15:35   that will cancel out by phase of the [TS]

01:15:38   wave that will cancel out the waves of [TS]

01:15:40   the ones coming in from the outside [TS]

01:15:41   world so there's nothing stopping them [TS]

01:15:43   from doing that as far as I know in the [TS]

01:15:45   harbor they have now or you know in that [TS]

01:15:48   style of hardware they have now rather [TS]

01:15:49   but that wouldn't be very useful without [TS]

01:15:52   better isolation and isolation is right [TS]

01:15:55   now where they really fall down you know [TS]

01:15:58   and that doesn't require any circuitry [TS]

01:15:59   that requires physical barriers [TS]

01:16:01   basically of you know literally just [TS]

01:16:02   isolating you from the world around you [TS]

01:16:04   and to do that you know right now they [TS]

01:16:07   are ear buds and bloody ear buds are our [TS]

01:16:09   little drivers that sit kind of kind of [TS]

01:16:12   inside your ears but there are more like [TS]

01:16:14   resting in a little Kirby spot in your [TS]

01:16:16   ear they're not really blocking your ear [TS]

01:16:18   canal at all there are other types like [TS]

01:16:21   canal phones that or you know in-ear [TS]

01:16:23   monitors they're all they're also called [TS]

01:16:25   that actually block your whole ear canal [TS]

01:16:27   with some kind of like big like rubber [TS]

01:16:29   cone thing or something like that and [TS]

01:16:31   they they physically block the sound [TS]

01:16:34   from getting into your ears larger over [TS]

01:16:36   ear headphones have a similar effect but [TS]

01:16:39   with they just they they cup over your [TS]

01:16:42   ears as if you're putting your hands [TS]

01:16:43   over your ears and block the sound it [TS]

01:16:44   that way either way you're physically [TS]

01:16:46   blocking the sound from getting there [TS]

01:16:48   for the ear pot or started for the air [TS]

01:16:50   pods or your pods to do that they would [TS]

01:16:53   have to have a totally different shape [TS]

01:16:55   that would actually like block your ear [TS]

01:16:58   canal and be more like canal phones or [TS]

01:17:01   they would have to have some kind of [TS]

01:17:02   like you know coating or cover you could [TS]

01:17:05   put on them some kind of accessory that [TS]

01:17:06   you can put on them to do that although [TS]

01:17:08   I think they would ideally they would be [TS]

01:17:10   designed for this from the start [TS]

01:17:12   so that there's no there's nothing [TS]

01:17:14   stopping Apple from releasing air pod [TS]

01:17:16   canal phones but it's it's a different [TS]

01:17:19   style of product it has it's a whole [TS]

01:17:22   different shape it's a whole different [TS]

01:17:23   set of constraints and design goals [TS]

01:17:25   you'd have to have for it I don't expect [TS]

01:17:28   they would do that probably at all but [TS]

01:17:32   if they do it would probably be a [TS]

01:17:33   separate product it probably would not [TS]

01:17:34   just be like air pods - now they block [TS]

01:17:37   your whole ear canal it would probably [TS]

01:17:39   be like here's the new you know air [TS]

01:17:41   canals or you know whatever it they [TS]

01:17:43   would have a better name than that but [TS]

01:17:44   it would probably be a separate product [TS]

01:17:46   because that's a very separate physical [TS]

01:17:48   design of the [TS]

01:17:48   products let's just work on Apple being [TS]

01:17:51   able to ship air pods in a reasonable [TS]

01:17:53   time worried about adding features thick [TS]

01:17:55   burn yeah and I also would not spend too [TS]

01:18:00   much time waiting around for the air pod [TS]

01:18:01   two's yeah air pods - whatever they like [TS]

01:18:04   I don't think Apple was updating the air [TS]

01:18:06   pods anytime soon probably right about [TS]

01:18:09   that Alex s glum SAS writes in to say if [TS]

01:18:15   you could make a single change to Swift [TS]

01:18:17   what would it be I will say that even [TS]

01:18:20   though it's probably not the biggest [TS]

01:18:23   thing in the world what I really love to [TS]

01:18:25   see is reflection and I've talked about [TS]

01:18:27   this from time to time reflection or [TS]

01:18:29   introspection means at runtime you can [TS]

01:18:31   look at an object in code and say you [TS]

01:18:32   know what are the properties it has one [TS]

01:18:34   of the methods it has and and and [TS]

01:18:36   typically along with that you'll see [TS]

01:18:38   annotations which are attributes in [TS]

01:18:41   c-sharp world which means you can kind [TS]

01:18:44   of decorate your code with metadata [TS]

01:18:45   which is also super useful I could go on [TS]

01:18:48   and on and on about this but it's not [TS]

01:18:49   terribly interesting so I'll just say [TS]

01:18:51   reflection with a bonus choice of [TS]

01:18:54   stealing Marcos thought earlier of a [TS]

01:18:57   better concurrency model so since I've [TS]

01:19:00   stolen your obvious answer Marco what [TS]

01:19:02   would you say have two versions oh I [TS]

01:19:04   don't really have a good answer this [TS]

01:19:06   question because I don't know enough [TS]

01:19:08   about Swift because of the [TS]

01:19:09   aforementioned factors I don't use it [TS]

01:19:11   really enough so I really am not [TS]

01:19:13   qualified to say John so if a single [TS]

01:19:18   change if concurrency counts as a single [TS]

01:19:20   chain so just solve concurrency the [TS]

01:19:23   solution of your choosing either a good [TS]

01:19:25   imitation of async/await there's [TS]

01:19:26   something entirely different or whatever [TS]

01:19:27   that would be my single thing but it's [TS]

01:19:29   kind of vague if I have to be narrow I [TS]

01:19:30   would say I would say regular expression [TS]

01:19:32   literals but you know no way both of [TS]

01:19:37   those things are coming by the way it's [TS]

01:19:38   a question of when Brian Middleton asks [TS]

01:19:41   what arcade games are each of you [TS]

01:19:44   nostalgic for from your childhood is [TS]

01:19:45   there one game you would like to own I [TS]

01:19:48   will start as usual I we actually have a [TS]

01:19:50   pinball machine in the house my dad many [TS]

01:19:52   years ago had a had gone through a phase [TS]

01:19:56   of restore or maybe not restoring but [TS]

01:19:58   repairing old pinball machines and so he [TS]

01:20:01   had like [TS]

01:20:02   six of them at one point but unloaded [TS]

01:20:04   all but two of them one of which went to [TS]

01:20:06   me and one of what she still has so I [TS]

01:20:10   obviously have nostalgia for all those [TS]

01:20:11   but in terms of like traditional arcade [TS]

01:20:14   games [TS]

01:20:15   NBA Jam cruisin USA and Street Fighter 2 [TS]

01:20:19   I didn't play any of them that much but [TS]

01:20:24   I enjoyed deeply all three of those both [TS]

01:20:28   in in arcade form and in occasionally in [TS]

01:20:30   console form so I would say those three [TS]

01:20:32   Marco [TS]

01:20:34   honestly I hardly went to arcades in my [TS]

01:20:37   childhood we didn't really live that [TS]

01:20:39   close to them and we didn't have a lot [TS]

01:20:40   of money and so I idea of just going [TS]

01:20:43   there and like blowing like tens of [TS]

01:20:46   dollars maybe like that would be that [TS]

01:20:48   would not really happen in my family but [TS]

01:20:51   wait what I did play a little bit of [TS]

01:20:52   arcade game since I was like a teenager [TS]

01:20:54   here and there the one I most liked was [TS]

01:20:57   Daytona USA this was during the you know [TS]

01:21:00   the mid 90s or so so like the Sega [TS]

01:21:03   Saturn was coming out and so they they [TS]

01:21:06   had like a few cool games like Virtua [TS]

01:21:08   Fighter and everything that were coming [TS]

01:21:09   out with you know alongside of it and [TS]

01:21:11   Daytona USA was my favorite one it was a [TS]

01:21:13   racing game and it was just you know [TS]

01:21:16   basic kind of like NASCAR style I think [TS]

01:21:18   I don't know I don't know whatever style [TS]

01:21:22   uses what appear to be stock cars on a [TS]

01:21:24   round track but that a lot of turns and [TS]

01:21:28   it was a lot of fun but it was $1.00 per [TS]

01:21:31   play in most arcades so I hardly ever [TS]

01:21:34   played it with the exception of there [TS]

01:21:35   was like I was in some kind of youth [TS]

01:21:37   group and there was one time that they [TS]

01:21:39   had a lock-in at a Magic Mountain arcade [TS]

01:21:41   where we just got everything set to free [TS]

01:21:44   play might have to play them all night [TS]

01:21:45   so I play a lot of it Daytona USA for [TS]

01:21:49   one night and that was awesome but other [TS]

01:21:52   than this is kind of a set so we're like [TS]

01:21:54   oh man I hardly ever played Archy really [TS]

01:21:57   John I played a lot of arcade games I [TS]

01:22:00   was thought that a very nice nostalgic [TS]

01:22:02   for it's hard to pick one that I would [TS]

01:22:06   want to own though because in general [TS]

01:22:07   arcade games back then and I'm assuming [TS]

01:22:10   still today we're made to take your [TS]

01:22:11   money and so I remember [TS]

01:22:15   getting lots of you know tokens or [TS]

01:22:17   quarters and feeding them into these [TS]

01:22:19   machines and I think if I owned any of [TS]

01:22:22   them they they would become shallow very [TS]

01:22:25   fast especially the games I'm nostalgic [TS]

01:22:26   about unless you do something like [TS]

01:22:28   centipede or like pac-man or you try to [TS]

01:22:30   make it like the perfect game or [TS]

01:22:31   whatever but uh in a couple of summer [TS]

01:22:34   camps I went through the head arcade [TS]

01:22:35   games they were either set to free or [TS]

01:22:38   were only 25 cents when instead of 50 or [TS]

01:22:42   whatever and that I played a lot and so [TS]

01:22:45   there are some games I got really good [TS]

01:22:46   at like one of them that was Tiger heli [TS]

01:22:47   which is not top-down vertically [TS]

01:22:52   scrolling shooter thing or 1942 [TS]

01:22:54   similar type of game both of those very [TS]

01:22:57   camp I got really good at those games [TS]

01:22:58   like that was where you put in one [TS]

01:23:00   quarter and I'd play for a really really [TS]

01:23:01   really long time you know and but even [TS]

01:23:06   then you feel like oh well now I've seen [TS]

01:23:08   the whole game like this is all there is [TS]

01:23:09   to this game and so I really wouldn't [TS]

01:23:11   want to own it so I don't think I would [TS]

01:23:13   want to own any machines but most of [TS]

01:23:14   subject for the Star Wars sit-down game [TS]

01:23:18   afterburner we're just as impressive [TS]

01:23:20   when it first came out especially with [TS]

01:23:22   the one that you move around inside the [TS]

01:23:23   thing was one of the first 50:57 games I [TS]

01:23:26   can remember the classics centipede [TS]

01:23:28   Galaga I liked time pilot is that we [TS]

01:23:31   were one called section Z sidearm this [TS]

01:23:33   was a totally weird one that I still [TS]

01:23:35   think was awesome I have all these em [TS]

01:23:36   name now though so I don't need to own [TS]

01:23:38   any of the machines nice nuclear Eclipse [TS]

01:23:42   asks this is John Reese when will you [TS]

01:23:45   record neutral season 2 my official [TS]

01:23:48   answer is we've been recording it for [TS]

01:23:50   the last like three years and after [TS]

01:23:52   shows of this show my unofficial answer [TS]

01:23:55   is not soon enough John let's go to you [TS]

01:23:58   first [TS]

01:23:59   well you answered it there's not an [TS]

01:24:00   intro season two you listen to it this [TS]

01:24:02   is it yep [TS]

01:24:03   done and done Krusty the Klown writes do [TS]

01:24:08   you think an iOS laptop would be a [TS]

01:24:10   viable product ie an iBook I was hoping [TS]

01:24:13   Apple would announced at WWDC but it [TS]

01:24:15   didn't happen isn't that kind of what an [TS]

01:24:17   iPad pro is like I understand well I [TS]

01:24:19   presume that Roger Escobar's person who [TS]

01:24:23   wrote in is is asking you know something [TS]

01:24:25   that has the physical like connected [TS]

01:24:27   keyboard and screen [TS]

01:24:28   that you can never you know separate the [TS]

01:24:30   two I I feel like an iPad pro is so [TS]

01:24:34   close to there that it's oh it's I don't [TS]

01:24:36   see really is it not okay okay well [TS]

01:24:40   that's the thing I've never owned an [TS]

01:24:41   iPad pro so so learn me to show me why [TS]

01:24:43   I'm wrong yeah so I I have I've now had [TS]

01:24:45   the 9.7 pro and 10.5 and I keep I keep [TS]

01:24:50   it always in the keyboard cover almost [TS]

01:24:53   always on the Apple keyboard cover and [TS]

01:24:54   and there are other keyboard covers that [TS]

01:24:56   kind of make it a little bit more laptop [TS]

01:24:57   like but it they're mostly not that [TS]

01:25:00   great for the way some people use it and [TS]

01:25:04   I'm one of these people I would use that [TS]

01:25:07   I would buy that product because I oh I [TS]

01:25:09   always want the keyboard the keyboard is [TS]

01:25:12   what made iPad usable for me as simple [TS]

01:25:14   as that like I do occasionally like go [TS]

01:25:17   on the couch and fold the keyboard back [TS]

01:25:19   behind it and try to use it without it [TS]

01:25:21   and I hate it I always end up like [TS]

01:25:22   folding it back out and like trying to [TS]

01:25:23   use on my lap which is awful cuz it's [TS]

01:25:25   all floppy and Bailey back weighted [TS]

01:25:27   everything so I would say this is not a [TS]

01:25:31   huge market probably but if they did it [TS]

01:25:36   I would I would certainly buy it that [TS]

01:25:38   way because iOS for me you know part of [TS]

01:25:42   the part of the reason why it feels so [TS]

01:25:43   hobbled to me so often is the lack of a [TS]

01:25:46   keyboard when I'm on my phone or when I [TS]

01:25:48   want on iPad without that so like that [TS]

01:25:50   that's why formulate the keyboard really [TS]

01:25:52   has made a huge difference for me in [TS]

01:25:53   making iOS on the iPad and making the [TS]

01:25:56   making the iPad worth having and worth [TS]

01:25:59   keeping out in my kitchen all the time [TS]

01:26:01   so a clamshell version of that would be [TS]

01:26:04   welcome but I honestly I would be very [TS]

01:26:07   surprised if they did it John this is [TS]

01:26:12   where there would be a viable product [TS]

01:26:13   and I think it totally would like as iOS [TS]

01:26:15   expands its functionality to solve some [TS]

01:26:17   of the same problems that are currently [TS]

01:26:18   only or best solved by a Mac today and [TS]

01:26:20   inevitably has to come into that area [TS]

01:26:22   because it's proved it's a proven form [TS]

01:26:26   factor people like that form factors [TS]

01:26:27   just a question of oh can you combine [TS]

01:26:29   that form factor with a bunch of other [TS]

01:26:31   things software and battery life and [TS]

01:26:33   costs and other trade-offs to make a [TS]

01:26:35   compelling product yes you totally can [TS]

01:26:37   yeah I think you could do with iOS today [TS]

01:26:38   but certainly as iOS continues get more [TS]

01:26:40   sophisticated [TS]

01:26:41   it would be a viable product whether how [TS]

01:26:44   soon Apple will do it I don't know [TS]

01:26:45   chance rubbage writes and asked more and [TS]

01:26:48   more podcasts are going behind paywalls [TS]

01:26:50   is it a good idea for Apple to enable a [TS]

01:26:51   tip jar or in-app purchase for podcasts [TS]

01:26:54   I don't see how that could really work [TS]

01:26:57   out especially since it would presumably [TS]

01:26:59   be locked to the Apple podcast app and [TS]

01:27:02   even if you could just magically snap [TS]

01:27:05   your fingers and make that work across [TS]

01:27:06   any podcast app anywhere I don't know I [TS]

01:27:08   think it would help the smaller podcast [TS]

01:27:11   but for something like us I don't know [TS]

01:27:14   that it would me and not to say we're [TS]

01:27:16   like sorry that implies that we're like [TS]

01:27:17   a 99 you know percent invisible we're [TS]

01:27:19   not that anything either but like a [TS]

01:27:21   mid-level if you if we can generously [TS]

01:27:23   call ourselves that like a mid-level [TS]

01:27:25   show like this one I don't know that it [TS]

01:27:27   would make a big difference let's go to [TS]

01:27:28   Jon first Apple implementing it is the [TS]

01:27:32   problem here because having a way for [TS]

01:27:36   people to do a tip jar and app purchases [TS]

01:27:38   for podcasts that would be a good thing [TS]

01:27:41   because the ability to do more business [TS]

01:27:44   models more easily lets different shows [TS]

01:27:46   find different ways to fund themselves [TS]

01:27:47   depends on the show and the audience and [TS]

01:27:49   so forth but having it be Apple thing is [TS]

01:27:51   bad because the you know one of the [TS]

01:27:52   great benefits of podcasts is they're [TS]

01:27:55   not owned and controlled by a single [TS]

01:27:56   corporation to the degree that a lot of [TS]

01:27:59   other things are and so I wouldn't want [TS]

01:28:01   Apple to do this because if they're [TS]

01:28:04   wildly successful it's a problem and if [TS]

01:28:06   they're not successful then what would [TS]

01:28:07   that was the even the point you don't [TS]

01:28:09   allow more business models so I would [TS]

01:28:10   love for there to be standards that you [TS]

01:28:13   know the clients would work with across [TS]

01:28:17   multiple platforms just like RSS is a [TS]

01:28:19   standard the clients work with across [TS]

01:28:20   multiple platforms to distribute [TS]

01:28:22   podcasts if there was a similar standard [TS]

01:28:25   a similar open cross-platform standard [TS]

01:28:27   for enabling different kind of business [TS]

01:28:29   models that would be great but guess [TS]

01:28:30   who's motivated to make such a thing not [TS]

01:28:32   Apple and not a lot of other companies [TS]

01:28:33   too so Marco I would say also like the [TS]

01:28:37   this question starts with the statement [TS]

01:28:39   more and more podcasts are going behind [TS]

01:28:41   paywalls this sounds like a big trend [TS]

01:28:43   but I don't think it is much of one [TS]

01:28:45   really I think the only podcasts that [TS]

01:28:48   have actually succeeded in going behind [TS]

01:28:51   paywalls for the most part are the ones [TS]

01:28:53   that monetize their back catalogue [TS]

01:28:55   that are they're fairly timeless and [TS]

01:28:57   that you can either use their own it [TS]

01:28:59   possibly paid app or pay for some [TS]

01:29:01   membership to download like archive to [TS]

01:29:04   older episodes but then the current ones [TS]

01:29:05   are still free that's a way more common [TS]

01:29:08   thing and even that doesn't work for [TS]

01:29:11   every show like that only works for [TS]

01:29:12   shows that are timeless doesn't wouldn't [TS]

01:29:13   work for a show like ours where we talk [TS]

01:29:15   mostly about news you know so it's like [TS]

01:29:17   that whole but like I don't think a lot [TS]

01:29:19   of podcasts overall are going behind [TS]

01:29:22   paywalls and in the traditional sense of [TS]

01:29:24   like you can't listen to this unless you [TS]

01:29:27   pay us the fact is that's really hard [TS]

01:29:30   it's really hard to grow an audience if [TS]

01:29:32   you're behind a paywall [TS]

01:29:33   as I mean you look look around the whole [TS]

01:29:35   rest of the web lots of news sites and [TS]

01:29:37   everything I have tried paywalls very [TS]

01:29:40   few have succeeded because of this [TS]

01:29:42   problem and the ones that have have [TS]

01:29:45   these kind of porous pay walls where you [TS]

01:29:47   can get a bunch for free upfront and [TS]

01:29:49   then you may manage to pay us or clear [TS]

01:29:51   your cookies or you couldn't you have to [TS]

01:29:53   pay us to read all of our articles [TS]

01:29:54   unless you come from Google or Twitter [TS]

01:29:55   like there's like there's all sorts of [TS]

01:29:57   like these holes because pay walls are [TS]

01:30:00   really hard to make work podcasts have [TS]

01:30:02   have survived and thrived and grown all [TS]

01:30:05   this time driven almost entirely by [TS]

01:30:08   advertising the exact same way most [TS]

01:30:10   websites have always funded themselves [TS]

01:30:12   for all the same reasons that it's [TS]

01:30:15   really again it's hard to grow an [TS]

01:30:16   audience if you're making people pay on [TS]

01:30:18   the way in and it's generally easier to [TS]

01:30:23   sell ads than to do that and advertisers [TS]

01:30:26   will typically pay more than your [TS]

01:30:27   audience will so I don't really think [TS]

01:30:30   this is a big problem either a trend [TS]

01:30:33   that is happening or something that [TS]

01:30:35   really needs to be explored that much so [TS]

01:30:38   that being said if Apple were to enable [TS]

01:30:42   tip jars or in-app purchases for [TS]

01:30:44   podcasts I honestly I have thought about [TS]

01:30:46   doing this in over cast before I've [TS]

01:30:47   talked to podcasters about it the [TS]

01:30:49   overall conclusion I have reached is [TS]

01:30:51   that that would be a very messy business [TS]

01:30:55   to be in and that for the most part [TS]

01:30:59   podcasters now because there isn't a big [TS]

01:31:02   centralised system run by Apple anywhere [TS]

01:31:05   else podcasters now have found ways to [TS]

01:31:07   monetize their podcasts [TS]

01:31:08   their own ways they own ways that they [TS]

01:31:11   control people have patreon so people [TS]

01:31:14   have memberships and people just do ads [TS]

01:31:15   like we do some people do some [TS]

01:31:16   combination thereof but the point is [TS]

01:31:18   that no one's involved there is no [TS]

01:31:20   middleman there is no like you know [TS]

01:31:22   Apple skimming 30% off the top and [TS]

01:31:25   making everything go through them and [TS]

01:31:26   disallowing everything else like the way [TS]

01:31:28   there was an app's [TS]

01:31:28   you know there is no middleman and like [TS]

01:31:31   when I talk to podcasters when I was [TS]

01:31:33   thinking about doing something like this [TS]

01:31:34   in overcast the universal response was [TS]

01:31:37   we don't want anyone else handling our [TS]

01:31:40   money for us we don't want anyone else [TS]

01:31:42   getting between our audience in us me or [TS]

01:31:44   Apple or anybody else like no one wanted [TS]

01:31:46   that and and I would see like you know [TS]

01:31:48   what if I started collecting money and I [TS]

01:31:50   just distribute it to you like you know [TS]

01:31:52   readability style like would you go for [TS]

01:31:54   that and the universal response was kind [TS]

01:31:56   of like yeah I guess I would take the [TS]

01:31:59   money but I wouldn't promote it because [TS]

01:32:01   I would want if I'm gonna promote [TS]

01:32:02   something I want to promote my own [TS]

01:32:03   membership thing on my own site or my [TS]

01:32:05   own patreon whatever else like everybody [TS]

01:32:07   wanted to do their own thing with their [TS]

01:32:09   own money and they don't want middle [TS]

01:32:11   people to come in and collect money on [TS]

01:32:13   their behalf like that you're not doing [TS]

01:32:15   them a favor of doing that so ultimately [TS]

01:32:17   I I see why this question is asked and [TS]

01:32:22   it's going to keep being asked like [TS]

01:32:23   every six months for if for the next ten [TS]

01:32:25   years as everyone thinks about these [TS]

01:32:26   things the podcast but I just don't [TS]

01:32:29   think this is really a big problem and I [TS]

01:32:33   don't think anybody wants a huge [TS]

01:32:35   middleman to come in and and get in the [TS]

01:32:37   way of between them and their customers [TS]

01:32:39   I'm things like patreon or a middleman [TS]

01:32:41   as well but they're they're divorced [TS]

01:32:43   from podcasting there's nothing about [TS]

01:32:44   patreon that has podcast specific so [TS]

01:32:46   it's just a question of like how do you [TS]

01:32:47   find a way to fund the thing that you're [TS]

01:32:49   doing and you have all these tool I mean [TS]

01:32:50   stripe is a you know middleman they're [TS]

01:32:52   like if they taking your percentage of [TS]

01:32:54   your transactions they're any good like [TS]

01:32:56   there's always going to be people taking [TS]

01:32:57   a percentage of transactions but in the [TS]

01:33:00   world of podcasting it's nice to not [TS]

01:33:02   have or you have to do it this way [TS]

01:33:04   because this is how podcasts are sold [TS]

01:33:05   you want to use stripe you want to use [TS]

01:33:07   patreon you want to Kickstarter you want [TS]

01:33:09   to solicit donations on your web page [TS]

01:33:11   and use any one of those services none [TS]

01:33:13   of those are tied to podcasting and are [TS]

01:33:15   interesting to the podcast ecosystem or [TS]

01:33:18   you know force you to do something [TS]

01:33:20   unlike for example the App Store where [TS]

01:33:21   Apple [TS]

01:33:22   fully controls how you can pay for your [TS]

01:33:24   how you can collect money for your [TS]

01:33:25   applications yeah Chris Adamson writes [TS]

01:33:28   what streaming services other than [TS]

01:33:30   Netflix do you guys use does siracusa [TS]

01:33:33   have a country roll subscription so [TS]

01:33:35   actually let's start with John and then [TS]

01:33:36   we'll end with me I saw this question I [TS]

01:33:39   was trying to think of I mean I do I [TS]

01:33:40   subscribe to Hulu I subscribed Amazon [TS]

01:33:42   Prime I do not have a crunchyroll [TS]

01:33:44   subscription but I have had one in the [TS]

01:33:46   past maybe there's other ones I honestly [TS]

01:33:50   I thought about the other day I should [TS]

01:33:52   catalog all the things have subscribed [TS]

01:33:55   to so I am aware rado crown the line [TS]

01:33:58   he'll steal style of not having too many [TS]

01:34:01   subscriptions but they've been creeping [TS]

01:34:03   in like I mean for things like Hulu is [TS]

01:34:05   like oh I want to see The Handmaid's [TS]

01:34:06   Tale so I'll describe to Hulu but now I [TS]

01:34:08   just have a whose description forever [TS]

01:34:10   because I find other shows that I want [TS]

01:34:11   to watch I already watched a good place [TS]

01:34:13   on there because other things I'm gonna [TS]

01:34:15   watch on Hulu right this can't continue [TS]

01:34:18   indefinitely because I will be end up [TS]

01:34:20   you know I gotta add up all those 5 10 [TS]

01:34:22   whatever dollars a month and see what [TS]

01:34:24   their I was HBO well no but that's part [TS]

01:34:26   of my cable I don't know they've too [TS]

01:34:29   many I guess is my answer [TS]

01:34:30   fair enough Marco for us it's just it's [TS]

01:34:35   Netflix and HBO go or now whichever one [TS]

01:34:38   is those two that's it yeah for us it's [TS]

01:34:44   Netflix and we are Amazon Prime members [TS]

01:34:46   by virtue or Prime video members by [TS]

01:34:49   virtue of Amazon Prime [TS]

01:34:50   oh yeah us to never use it yeah and [TS]

01:34:52   that's the thing like outside of the [TS]

01:34:53   Grand Tour we never use it and I [TS]

01:34:55   probably would have subscribed to prime [TS]

01:34:57   video specifically for the Grand Tour [TS]

01:34:58   and then regretted it because the Grand [TS]

01:34:59   Tour was terrible uh let's see [TS]

01:35:03   exalt rights in do I have a real name [TS]

01:35:06   here sorry little fancy spreadsheet [TS]

01:35:07   doesn't catch real names as elf ridin [TS]

01:35:09   rights in I'm standing in the computer [TS]

01:35:11   store in my local mall before Christmas [TS]

01:35:13   1986 John sell me on a Mac Plus over the [TS]

01:35:16   Apple 2 GS oh the pixels are the size of [TS]

01:35:20   boulders on the Apple 2 GS the the [TS]

01:35:22   number of amazing games that are you'll [TS]

01:35:24   have to play on the Mac Plus will [TS]

01:35:28   impress any Apple to do yes yes I know [TS]

01:35:29   the 2 GS is color but a the Mac is the [TS]

01:35:32   future and B the pixels are tiny [TS]

01:35:34   and see the Mac has an incredible amount [TS]

01:35:37   of charm like its there's no contest if [TS]

01:35:40   you have the money as I say if you have [TS]

01:35:43   the means I highly recommend one do not [TS]

01:35:45   do the amplitude yes it is a dead end [TS]

01:35:47   that was Ferris Bueller by the way all [TS]

01:35:51   right uh Melvin gun latch writes in how [TS]

01:35:55   did you initially meet and what got you [TS]

01:35:57   started making podcast together bits and [TS]

01:36:00   pieces of the story I've been told many [TS]

01:36:02   many many times in the past so I'll try [TS]

01:36:04   to give the chief summarizer in chief [TS]

01:36:06   version mark when I met when we were [TS]

01:36:08   little kids [TS]

01:36:09   your parents or grandparents it isn't [TS]

01:36:11   entirely important had a house that was [TS]

01:36:14   on a small lake in upstate New York my [TS]

01:36:16   grandparents had a had a different house [TS]

01:36:18   on the same small lake in upstate New [TS]

01:36:20   York and we would hang out over the [TS]

01:36:22   summers because basically we're the only [TS]

01:36:24   kids that were there and we kind of fell [TS]

01:36:27   out of touch not an angry way just in a [TS]

01:36:28   you know we were kids and we grew up [TS]

01:36:30   kind of way and I think one of us would [TS]

01:36:33   email the other from time to time over [TS]

01:36:35   the years and then shortly after I think [TS]

01:36:38   was after we both got married so not too [TS]

01:36:40   terribly long after college one of us [TS]

01:36:43   reached out to the other if I recall [TS]

01:36:44   correctly each of us blames the other [TS]

01:36:45   for doing this and in both the good way [TS]

01:36:47   and in the haha way but anyway somehow [TS]

01:36:50   or another we fell back in touch and and [TS]

01:36:53   we just kind of rekindled our friendship [TS]

01:36:55   from forever ago so of the people that I [TS]

01:36:58   still talk to Marco and are now mutual [TS]

01:37:01   friend Brad Lawton back who works for [TS]

01:37:03   light there they are my two oldest [TS]

01:37:06   friends that I've known for about the [TS]

01:37:07   same amount of time and it's been [TS]

01:37:08   something like 20 years now so fast [TS]

01:37:10   forward to WDC 2011 2012 I forget which [TS]

01:37:14   one it was I want to say was 2011 Marco [TS]

01:37:17   and I are in line for the keynote and I [TS]

01:37:19   forget if John siracusa walked up to us [TS]

01:37:21   or Marco found John but one way or [TS]

01:37:23   another John found us and we found John [TS]

01:37:26   and we hung out for the rest of the day [TS]

01:37:28   and then John and I kind of became [TS]

01:37:29   friendly after that and around the time [TS]

01:37:32   that build and analyze ended in late [TS]

01:37:35   2012 I guess it was I had started [TS]

01:37:37   needling Marco about hey we should do a [TS]

01:37:39   car show we should do a car show even if [TS]

01:37:41   nobody listens to it'll still be fun we [TS]

01:37:42   should do a car show spoiler alert [TS]

01:37:44   nobody listened to it but anyway Marco [TS]

01:37:47   had the presence of mind to [TS]

01:37:48   say you know hypercritical just ended I [TS]

01:37:50   wonder if John would do it too cuz he [TS]

01:37:52   likes cars and so that's how neutral got [TS]

01:37:54   started and then we would we would as [TS]

01:37:56   three nerds are off to do we would start [TS]

01:37:59   talking about nerdy stuff after the fact [TS]

01:38:01   and Marco's similar story had the [TS]

01:38:03   presence of mind to put that on [TS]

01:38:04   Soundcloud which by the time you listen [TS]

01:38:06   to this may not even exist anymore he [TS]

01:38:10   put those episodes on SoundCloud and we [TS]

01:38:11   realized well people actually like when [TS]

01:38:13   we talk about things we sort of know [TS]

01:38:14   about and people are not that interested [TS]

01:38:16   in us pontificating about cars of which [TS]

01:38:18   we know nothing about so maybe we should [TS]

01:38:21   stop with the car thing and start with [TS]

01:38:23   the tech thing and that's kind of the [TS]

01:38:25   super abridged version of how this all [TS]

01:38:26   came to be and so ATP really became a [TS]

01:38:29   thing I think in March of 2013 and here [TS]

01:38:31   we are in the middle of 2017 it's it's [TS]

01:38:34   still a thing so let's start with Marco [TS]

01:38:36   any other thoughts to add and then John [TS]

01:38:38   after him only that this is now one of [TS]

01:38:41   the longest jobs I've ever held [TS]

01:38:43   instapaper was longer club you I was [TS]

01:38:46   taking simple water oh my god well done [TS]

01:38:50   it was about five years so this we're in [TS]

01:38:53   the were near for now for this does that [TS]

01:38:55   mean does that mean the clock is ticking [TS]

01:38:57   worried no I once I once this becomes [TS]

01:39:01   longest job I've ever held which I'm [TS]

01:39:03   pretty sure will happen then I will [TS]

01:39:05   celebrate then there enough John any [TS]

01:39:07   other thoughts I continue to protest the [TS]

01:39:10   characterization of not knowing anything [TS]

01:39:11   about cars speak for yourselves I know a [TS]

01:39:14   lot about cars [TS]

01:39:14   I can't really argue with that alright [TS]

01:39:22   let's see what else is good and do you [TS]

01:39:27   tape your webcams gentlemen John do you [TS]

01:39:29   put tape over your webcam nope nope same [TS]

01:39:32   here Marco are you still and this is a [TS]

01:39:36   question from mark so mark - mark oh are [TS]

01:39:40   you still happy choosing go for the [TS]

01:39:41   overcast back end yeah not really [TS]

01:39:44   but so first of all only a very small [TS]

01:39:47   part of the overcast back end is in go [TS]

01:39:49   most of it is still PHP there's simply a [TS]

01:39:51   separate go process for the feed [TS]

01:39:54   crawlers and they'll even it doesn't [TS]

01:39:56   even do the whole process it just pulls [TS]

01:39:58   a whole bunch of feeds and fetches their [TS]

01:40:01   contents for chain [TS]

01:40:02   Changez if they don't report based for [TS]

01:40:04   him with cash headers and then if he [TS]

01:40:07   exchanged feed it then stuffs the [TS]

01:40:09   contents of that feed into a into a [TS]

01:40:11   queue which is processed by PHP [TS]

01:40:14   consumers and the whole web app is all [TS]

01:40:16   PHP so I would I would not even say I [TS]

01:40:18   have a go back end I have one go [TS]

01:40:20   component in the backend and go is go is [TS]

01:40:23   an interesting language I'm sure a lot [TS]

01:40:25   of people like it a lot I I like it a [TS]

01:40:27   lot for certain things but it's very [TS]

01:40:29   cumbersome to do complex things so like [TS]

01:40:34   it's really great for what I'm using it [TS]

01:40:35   now for which is like something that is [TS]

01:40:38   a fairly simple task but you need to be [TS]

01:40:40   really fast you need to have a certain [TS]

01:40:42   concurrency story there but like I would [TS]

01:40:46   not want to write it now that I've [TS]

01:40:48   gotten to the language a bit enough to [TS]

01:40:49   do this I would definitely not want to [TS]

01:40:51   write a whole web app of complexity you [TS]

01:40:54   can go just because simple things are [TS]

01:40:56   cumbersome to do alright we only have [TS]

01:40:59   time for a few more because I'm about to [TS]

01:41:01   die and so let's choose a few uh oh god [TS]

01:41:05   I'm so sorry I don't know how to [TS]

01:41:06   pronounce this but Jo Shin Marshall I'm [TS]

01:41:09   so so sorry how did you how did this [TS]

01:41:12   year's ATP t-shirt campaign work out for [TS]

01:41:14   you I'm happy to share my not so good [TS]

01:41:16   experience this is another example of [TS]

01:41:18   doing something nicely that could have [TS]

01:41:20   taken a terrible turn so the the shirts [TS]

01:41:25   are tough thing right because right now [TS]

01:41:28   we kind of have two choices we can use a [TS]

01:41:32   company that has a printing press if you [TS]

01:41:37   will in Europe but doesn't seem to do [TS]

01:41:41   the best with fulfillment and often [TS]

01:41:43   times has problems or we can use a [TS]

01:41:46   company that is only based out of the US [TS]

01:41:48   which kind of screws the Europeans but [TS]

01:41:51   is way more reliable and we've fluttered [TS]

01:41:56   back and forth between these two options [TS]

01:41:57   I will only speak for myself and say I [TS]

01:41:59   will probably petition for the US only [TS]

01:42:02   company next year and understand [TS]

01:42:05   completely if like a $90 t-shirt it's [TS]

01:42:08   just too darn much money to ask for from [TS]

01:42:09   the Europeans because in some cases like [TS]

01:42:12   with import tax and v80 or whatever that [TS]

01:42:15   stuff [TS]

01:42:15   called it got to be unbelievably [TS]

01:42:17   expensive and in and I am deeply sorry [TS]

01:42:20   for that I really truly am but but I'd [TS]

01:42:23   rather have everyone have a good [TS]

01:42:25   experience and just decide whether or [TS]

01:42:27   not it's worth the money to them then [TS]

01:42:29   having a really crummy experience so [TS]

01:42:32   this is your warning Europeans right now [TS]

01:42:34   that whenever we do t-shirts next it's [TS]

01:42:36   probably gonna be expensive and I am [TS]

01:42:38   sorry John any other thoughts I don't [TS]

01:42:41   think it was that bad this year like we [TS]

01:42:45   sold a lot of shirts and there's some [TS]

01:42:46   percentage where there's gonna be [TS]

01:42:47   problems I'm more happy having more the [TS]

01:42:52   larger number of people who are happy [TS]

01:42:54   with the shirts that they got across the [TS]

01:42:56   whole world [TS]

01:42:56   even if it also means a proportionately [TS]

01:42:59   larger number of people who are unhappy [TS]

01:43:00   because I'm presuming the only happy [TS]

01:43:02   people can get Raley's get their money [TS]

01:43:03   back but it is a trade off and we've [TS]

01:43:06   tried it both ways and people [TS]

01:43:08   complaining either way and who knows [TS]

01:43:09   what we'll do the problem is the problem [TS]

01:43:11   is that this is not what you know this [TS]

01:43:12   is not our core competency we are not a [TS]

01:43:14   t-shirt generating enterprise we are [TS]

01:43:16   podcast generating enterprise that once [TS]

01:43:19   a year does this silly thing with [TS]

01:43:20   t-shirts so the right way to do this [TS]

01:43:21   it's like oh you got to do it all [TS]

01:43:22   in-house but we're not a corporation [TS]

01:43:23   here we're just three people so every [TS]

01:43:26   year these three people try to figure [TS]

01:43:29   out how to do t-shirts in a way that [TS]

01:43:30   makes sense for everybody involved and [TS]

01:43:32   we have varying degrees of success and [TS]

01:43:34   guess what we're gonna try again [TS]

01:43:36   Marco any other thoughts only I'm with [TS]

01:43:40   you Casey and and I would go a little [TS]

01:43:43   further to say so so basically you know [TS]

01:43:46   I'll name names here [TS]

01:43:47   cotton bureau makes does great work they [TS]

01:43:49   they have their Austin quality they have [TS]

01:43:52   awesome people who are there who help [TS]

01:43:56   with the designs are often do the [TS]

01:43:57   designs they designed are our ATP [TS]

01:44:00   rainbow and logo kind of thing like they [TS]

01:44:02   design that themselves without even us [TS]

01:44:03   telling them like they there they are [TS]

01:44:06   they are great they do great work but [TS]

01:44:07   yeah they're international shipping is [TS]

01:44:09   really expensive because they print here [TS]

01:44:10   in the US and and so teespring [TS]

01:44:13   which is what we use this year and a [TS]

01:44:15   couple years ago also teespring has [TS]

01:44:18   printers in multiple locations around [TS]

01:44:20   the world we've had lots of problems [TS]

01:44:23   though with teespring [TS]

01:44:24   so it is cheaper and we actually make [TS]

01:44:27   more money from the teespring shirts you [TS]

01:44:29   I think but I would go as far as to say [TS]

01:44:33   right now on the record I don't think I [TS]

01:44:34   ever want to use teespring again after [TS]

01:44:36   this year because in the past the [TS]

01:44:38   quality issue was a single large mistake [TS]

01:44:42   it was like when we had that but that [TS]

01:44:43   wrong font on the source code on the [TS]

01:44:45   back of the shirt like that was a single [TS]

01:44:47   large mistake that we worked with them [TS]

01:44:50   they corrected it they sent everybody [TS]

01:44:52   new shirts it was one mistake one big [TS]

01:44:55   mistake that was fixable [TS]

01:44:56   this year the problem I don't know what [TS]

01:45:00   has changed at each me I know there was [TS]

01:45:01   an article about they were having you [TS]

01:45:02   know layoffs or something so I don't [TS]

01:45:03   know what's going on over there I don't [TS]

01:45:04   pay attention but this year it was like [TS]

01:45:07   a large number of different diffuse [TS]

01:45:10   small problems like even like the shirts [TS]

01:45:13   I ordered I have bad printing on like [TS]

01:45:17   two of the four shirts that I ordered [TS]

01:45:19   there were things like missing colors [TS]

01:45:21   things like misalignment where like the [TS]

01:45:23   logo was slightly slanted instead of [TS]

01:45:26   being aligned properly like stuff like [TS]

01:45:28   that just a lot of like small diffuse [TS]

01:45:30   issues with teespring this year that it [TS]

01:45:34   seems like maybe they have more printers [TS]

01:45:36   I don't know what the deal is but it was [TS]

01:45:38   the kind of problem that you can't [TS]

01:45:39   really just go to them and have them fix [TS]

01:45:41   you can't go to them and say hey like a [TS]

01:45:43   third of these shirts from random color [TS]

01:45:45   combinations and places are weird in [TS]

01:45:48   different ways and they're all [TS]

01:45:49   inconsistent like they're not gonna be [TS]

01:45:51   able to fix that so I would rather you [TS]

01:45:54   know going back to a key said I would [TS]

01:45:56   rather have a have something that I at [TS]

01:45:58   least know is a good product that is at [TS]

01:46:00   least coming out right and coming out [TS]

01:46:02   you know with high quality even if it [TS]

01:46:05   costs too much for some people to be [TS]

01:46:07   able to justify I'd rather sell that [TS]

01:46:09   than to do what we had this year and see [TS]

01:46:12   people sending in pictures of the sure [TS]

01:46:14   that they were so excited to get and I [TS]

01:46:16   see like it's missing a color or its [TS]

01:46:18   slant it or it's badly a bad print job [TS]

01:46:20   bad ink like that crushes me so I cannot [TS]

01:46:24   deal with that again [TS]

01:46:25   so I would not want to do the one duty [TS]

01:46:27   spring anymore and I don't care what it [TS]

01:46:29   does I don't I'd rather not sell [TS]

01:46:31   t-shirts then sell teespring t-shirts [TS]

01:46:32   again yeah I'm pretty similar in that in [TS]

01:46:37   that feeling Marcos since you are just [TS]

01:46:40   talking let's have you talk a little [TS]

01:46:41   more why do you do all the ad reads [TS]

01:46:43   that's my phil cohen by the way I just [TS]

01:46:46   kind of do we never really talked about [TS]

01:46:47   it the way it started with neutral the [TS]

01:46:55   short answer is that that I don't want [TS]

01:46:58   to do them in case you don't want [TS]

01:46:59   doesn't want to do them and Marco does [TS]

01:47:01   them yeah and so neither of us are gonna [TS]

01:47:03   go hey Marco can we do that thing that [TS]

01:47:06   would neither of us want to do no we're [TS]

01:47:07   gonna let Marco so basically it's [TS]

01:47:08   because Marco is nice enough to do them [TS]

01:47:10   and Casey and I are nice enough to let [TS]

01:47:12   him I used to sell them directly myself [TS]

01:47:18   at the beginning so it started out that [TS]

01:47:20   I was selling them so it just made sense [TS]

01:47:23   for me to also read them because I was [TS]

01:47:24   talking to the sponsors and learning [TS]

01:47:25   what they wanted me to say and [TS]

01:47:26   everything else these days I think [TS]

01:47:28   anybody could do it but yeah I do it and [TS]

01:47:31   I don't mind doing it and it's part of [TS]

01:47:32   my workflow and it's totally fine and [TS]

01:47:35   also a part of the thing like this is [TS]

01:47:36   true and a lot of relationship [TS]

01:47:38   situations very often there's one person [TS]

01:47:41   that cares more about something in [TS]

01:47:42   somebody else and I have a feeling Marco [TS]

01:47:43   cares more about the ad reads than [TS]

01:47:45   either one of us do so anymore they [TS]

01:47:47   didn't do it the way the way how much [TS]

01:47:48   tweaking he does to the ad copy and [TS]

01:47:51   getting it so that he's happy with it [TS]

01:47:54   III think that is a factor I think if [TS]

01:47:57   either one of us did ad reads we would [TS]

01:47:59   do it in a way that Marco does not find [TS]

01:48:00   satisfactory definitely that is that is [TS]

01:48:02   a good point all right I think this is [TS]

01:48:05   going to be the last question and it's [TS]

01:48:07   it should be a good one a Hans Schrader [TS]

01:48:09   right saying I'm from Europe could John [TS]

01:48:11   explain for a foreigner why he is so [TS]

01:48:13   touchy on the subject of bagels no I'm [TS]

01:48:15   gonna explain to Casey why he should [TS]

01:48:17   select the question that I highlighted [TS]

01:48:18   in yellow in the spreadsheet I can only [TS]

01:48:21   see but so much of the spreadsheet at [TS]

01:48:23   once my word 100 oh I am nowhere near [TS]

01:48:27   there that's why I skipped it okay so [TS]

01:48:28   the answer the question is the answer [TS]

01:48:30   the question that John is answering is [TS]

01:48:32   there are good bagels and there are [TS]

01:48:34   things that vaguely resembled bagels and [TS]

01:48:37   John and I both have reasons to prefer [TS]

01:48:39   actually so this is a very simple thing [TS]

01:48:46   everyone has foods that they growing up [TS]

01:48:48   that are like regional or local to their [TS]

01:48:51   family or whatever but they're nostalgic [TS]

01:48:53   for it's like I want to have the [TS]

01:48:55   that I had when I was a child that's the [TS]

01:48:58   thing and bagels like that for me only [TS]

01:49:02   bagels are pretty widely regional to the [TS]

01:49:04   New York metro area so I grew up with [TS]

01:49:07   the expectation that I can get bagels [TS]

01:49:10   that taste in a certain way and pizza [TS]

01:49:13   tastes a certain way pretty much [TS]

01:49:14   anywhere and as you know a sheltered [TS]

01:49:18   child who didn't travel too much I [TS]

01:49:19   assume this was true everywhere in the [TS]

01:49:21   United States but then when I went off [TS]

01:49:23   to college I learned this is not true [TS]

01:49:24   and even a little bit farther north and [TS]

01:49:28   east everything I got that people called [TS]

01:49:31   a bagel didn't taste like the things [TS]

01:49:32   that I when I was growing up and I'd go [TS]

01:49:34   back to New York and said no they're [TS]

01:49:35   still there but nobody else has them and [TS]

01:49:37   same thing with pizza so it's basically [TS]

01:49:39   that's that's why it's important that [TS]

01:49:40   bagels are made a certain way in the [TS]

01:49:43   region where I grew up and because [TS]

01:49:46   that's the sort of their entry point [TS]

01:49:48   into the u.s. they have some stake in [TS]

01:49:50   saying this is the way the bagels are [TS]

01:49:51   quote unquote supposed to taste right [TS]

01:49:53   and that I can't get them where I [TS]

01:49:55   currently live so that's why I'm [TS]

01:49:56   nostalgic for them that's it same thing [TS]

01:49:58   with pizza pizza is actually probably [TS]

01:49:59   worse than bagels but both of them I [TS]

01:50:01   miss when I was on Long Island I had [TS]

01:50:03   both oops reasonable for me thanks for [TS]

01:50:06   sponsors this week betterment Warby [TS]

01:50:08   Parker and Squarespace and we will see [TS]

01:50:10   you next week [TS]

01:50:13   now the show is over [TS]

01:50:16   they didn't even mean to begin because [TS]

01:50:19   it was accidental accidental [TS]

01:50:25   johnny research Marco and Casey wouldn't [TS]

01:50:28   let him [TS]

01:50:29   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:50:32   accidental today cas pyl is Esther [TS]

01:50:49   that's Casey less and a Artem a RM aunty [TS]

01:50:54   Marco Arment and I are a Syracuse [TS]

01:51:13   all right so the Zelda question is the [TS]

01:51:16   one you want John it's the one in yellow [TS]

01:51:18   I mean it's not it's not enough material [TS]

01:51:21   for an after show but yeah I can't [TS]

01:51:23   I have flux on so I can't tell what the [TS]

01:51:25   hell is yellow right oh god I'm blind [TS]

01:51:28   oh god I'm blind the problem say fluxes [TS]

01:51:31   I don't like those things we came to [TS]

01:51:33   tell you yellow all right [TS]

01:51:35   Vincent's covered curved Vincent's [TS]

01:51:38   curved I'll get this one day right so [TS]

01:51:40   what is your what is the status on your [TS]

01:51:42   breath of the wild progression did you [TS]

01:51:43   finish every aspect of the game etc as I [TS]

01:51:46   did with most questions I'll start this [TS]

01:51:47   off I still very much enjoy the game but [TS]

01:51:50   haven't played it in probably like a [TS]

01:51:52   month and a half [TS]

01:51:53   I've just been incredibly busy lately [TS]

01:51:55   and haven't had a chance to sit down [TS]

01:51:57   with it and also I think we discussed on [TS]

01:51:59   the show at some point I am not very [TS]

01:52:02   good at picking the game up and [TS]

01:52:04   remembering exactly what I was doing [TS]

01:52:05   when I put it down so I'll have like a [TS]

01:52:07   particular task or mission or thing I [TS]

01:52:09   want to accomplish but sometimes is like [TS]

01:52:11   you know one of the official game tasks [TS]

01:52:14   but sometimes it's like oh I want to go [TS]

01:52:15   and get myself ready for this game test [TS]

01:52:17   by going across the map and doing such [TS]

01:52:19   and such thing or whatever the case may [TS]

01:52:20   be and then I never write it down and [TS]

01:52:22   completely forget and then I get [TS]

01:52:23   frustrated when I pick the game back up [TS]

01:52:25   because I I have no memory and need to [TS]

01:52:27   like reestablish where I am and what I'm [TS]

01:52:30   doing that's my two cents Marco let's [TS]

01:52:32   talk Adar you playing Zelda at all no I [TS]

01:52:35   don't know okay alright moving on to [TS]

01:52:37   John well Marco can give us a tip update [TS]

01:52:40   how is she doing it I don't um they're [TS]

01:52:42   playing it sometimes I can't tell you [TS]

01:52:44   how far they I have no idea try to [TS]

01:52:46   participate in your family mar going [TS]

01:52:48   down there watch you play your stupid [TS]

01:52:51   sonic games [TS]

01:52:53   okay watch sometimes but I have I have [TS]

01:52:55   no idea how to communicate to you how [TS]

01:52:57   far they are alright so for me and [TS]

01:53:02   breath in the wild [TS]

01:53:03   I don't usually 100% games I have 100% [TS]

01:53:08   did many Zelda's is that series I play a [TS]

01:53:13   lot I like a lot there's a chance I [TS]

01:53:15   would have a hundred percent did breath [TS]

01:53:17   of the wild if it wasn't for the co rock [TS]

01:53:19   seeds I don't think I'm ever going to [TS]

01:53:21   just too many of them but i have i'm [TS]

01:53:24   coming close to doing every non seed [TS]

01:53:28   thing in the non dlc portion of the game [TS]

01:53:32   to the point we're also we doing things [TS]

01:53:34   like having every possible armor set [TS]

01:53:36   also fully upgraded i'm getting close to [TS]

01:53:38   that it's like it was in reach and i [TS]

01:53:39   might end up doing it for the dlc i did [TS]

01:53:43   the the was it trial of the sword i did [TS]

01:53:47   that so i master sword is fully charged [TS]

01:53:49   up to 260 all the time which is awesome [TS]

01:53:52   and also lasts so much longer time I did [TS]

01:53:54   all the side quests in the DLC so I've [TS]

01:53:56   done everything of a hundred percent of [TS]

01:53:57   the DLC which was tiny or whatever it's [TS]

01:53:59   not a big deal and like I said I'm don't [TS]

01:54:01   even have all the shrines left I'm in [TS]

01:54:02   the hundreds but I'm within striking [TS]

01:54:06   distance of hundred presenting [TS]

01:54:08   everything in the main game aside from [TS]

01:54:11   the core exceeds [TS]