The Accidental Tech Podcast

235: Notch-Savvy


00:00:00   that's didn't see I didn't see you out [TS]

00:00:01   there swimming in the waves in fact I've [TS]

00:00:04   never seen you swimming in them you got [TS]

00:00:05   a there's a reason for that that's the [TS]

00:00:07   next level of your Beach education [TS]

00:00:08   learning how to swim in the ocean yeah [TS]

00:00:10   that's that's unlikely because the ocean [TS]

00:00:12   is full of things that eat you and stuff [TS]

00:00:13   and that's I'm not gonna eat you it's [TS]

00:00:15   fine you see all the people playing they [TS]

00:00:17   live they go back to their homes it's [TS]

00:00:19   fine most of them yeah every day every [TS]

00:00:22   day have this the jellyfish are just [TS]

00:00:25   taking people so we haven't spoken to [TS]

00:00:29   each other in like a week and a half two [TS]

00:00:31   weeks something like that but we are [TS]

00:00:33   back together again back in the normal [TS]

00:00:34   schedule we'll be back in the normal [TS]

00:00:36   schedule as far as we know for at least [TS]

00:00:37   a little while probably until the [TS]

00:00:39   holidays start picking up and you know [TS]

00:00:41   if things are gonna go back to normal we [TS]

00:00:43   have to do what we always do and that is [TS]

00:00:45   your favorite segment and mine and [TS]

00:00:48   especially Jones asked ATP yeah that's [TS]

00:00:50   it no it's follow-up so we are starting [TS]

00:00:53   with the streaming music iPod shuffle [TS]

00:00:56   like thing which is apparently something [TS]

00:00:59   that uh that Spotify I don't know if [TS]

00:01:02   it's for is it first party I don't know [TS]

00:01:04   anyway it's a thing that's for Spotify [TS]

00:01:06   that's called mighty which is a peculiar [TS]

00:01:09   name that is basically an iPod shuffle [TS]

00:01:11   but for Spotify [TS]

00:01:12   from what I've gathered so John can you [TS]

00:01:14   tell me a little more about this [TS]

00:01:15   everybody sent us links to this thing [TS]

00:01:18   and eventually The Verge picked it up to [TS]

00:01:20   is that's what we'll link in the show [TS]

00:01:21   notes because we're talking about a [TS]

00:01:25   place in the market for something like [TS]

00:01:27   an iPod shuffle but this doesn't really [TS]

00:01:30   qualify because first of all it's not 50 [TS]

00:01:31   bucks is 85 second it does not have cell [TS]

00:01:35   data access you'd only has Wi-Fi and [TS]

00:01:37   Bluetooth so you know we're saying less [TS]

00:01:39   show was the last show maybe a show [TS]

00:01:41   before that you know eventually you'll [TS]

00:01:43   be able to make one of these fifty bucks [TS]

00:01:45   that can just stream music we're not [TS]

00:01:47   there yet but this one definitely looks [TS]

00:01:49   like doesn't look like an iPod shuffle [TS]

00:01:51   looks like a fisher-price versa it's [TS]

00:01:56   probably better this is the thing that [TS]

00:01:57   was annoying about the shuffle is that [TS]

00:01:58   it's so minimal and you needed to like [TS]

00:02:01   feel your hand on it to do like volume [TS]

00:02:04   up or down or next previous track right [TS]

00:02:06   you could find the middle button pretty [TS]

00:02:07   well but because it was a circle trying [TS]

00:02:09   to make sure that you're hitting up on [TS]

00:02:12   the circle and [TS]

00:02:13   instead of right or left which can be [TS]

00:02:15   very bad if you're in the middle of a [TS]

00:02:17   podcast especially before they got the [TS]

00:02:18   software updated or for your track on [TS]

00:02:20   her it wasn't marked as a podcast and [TS]

00:02:22   iTunes and it was just a song and you [TS]

00:02:23   hit the button and just lose your place [TS]

00:02:25   entirely you couldn't feel with your [TS]

00:02:27   finger what what is up and what is down [TS]

00:02:29   this was a little bit better because the [TS]

00:02:31   center thing is a square so you could [TS]

00:02:32   feel the flat edge anyway it's just [TS]

00:02:36   another coincidence of a product that is [TS]

00:02:39   kind of like what we're talking about [TS]

00:02:40   but not really like it so well come back [TS]

00:02:42   in ten years Marco tell me that audio [TS]

00:02:47   bit depth because apparently we got that [TS]

00:02:49   ever so slightly wrong well I wouldn't [TS]

00:02:52   say that [TS]

00:02:54   so last show we had some discussion [TS]

00:02:56   about whether Apple should or ever will [TS]

00:02:59   sell higher resolution music you know so [TS]

00:03:02   it was like the audiophile world loves [TS]

00:03:03   high bitrate high sample rate music like [TS]

00:03:06   24 192 and stuff like that [TS]

00:03:08   so a may have Mottram writes in to say [TS]

00:03:10   well I understand how resolution audio [TS]

00:03:12   isn't for everybody I was disappointed [TS]

00:03:13   that you guys get the basic terminology [TS]

00:03:14   wrong given the technical bias either [TS]

00:03:16   show an audience a follow-up item [TS]

00:03:18   addressing the difference between bit [TS]

00:03:19   depth and bitrate would be appreciated [TS]

00:03:21   so basically so bitrate is how many bits [TS]

00:03:26   a an encoding scheme is using you know [TS]

00:03:30   usually per second to encode the total [TS]

00:03:32   music so in a lossy scheme this [TS]

00:03:34   basically like mp3 they would be like [TS]

00:03:36   128 kilobits per second and that is just [TS]

00:03:39   like the quality level of the music that [TS]

00:03:40   you're getting it's it's how many bits [TS]

00:03:42   it will allocate to representing it and [TS]

00:03:44   usually the more bits you allocate to it [TS]

00:03:46   the higher quality you can achieve and [TS]

00:03:47   the less you have to throw away bit [TS]

00:03:49   depth is basically talking about how [TS]

00:03:52   precise the samples are everybody can [TS]

00:03:55   kind of picture what a wave looks like [TS]

00:03:57   you know that's how sound waves come in [TS]

00:03:59   and represented in the uncompressed form [TS]

00:04:00   this actually doesn't apply to things [TS]

00:04:02   like mp3 quite the same way because the [TS]

00:04:05   way the senator is represented is [TS]

00:04:07   different but basically when you're [TS]

00:04:09   looking at just a pure wave form and the [TS]

00:04:11   way that's represented in like a [TS]

00:04:13   lossless file or a wave or or or AIFF [TS]

00:04:17   every sample of audio is and you have a [TS]

00:04:20   separate of like you know 44,100 samples [TS]

00:04:22   per second or whatever else represent us [TS]

00:04:23   Hertz every one of those samples it's [TS]

00:04:26   representing the amp [TS]

00:04:27   to that wave as a number and the [TS]

00:04:30   bit-depth is the precision of those [TS]

00:04:32   numbers so if it's 16-bit like CDs then [TS]

00:04:35   that is represented by a 16-bit signed [TS]

00:04:37   integer if it's 24-bit you have more [TS]

00:04:40   bits if it's usually it I think a 24 or [TS]

00:04:42   I think beyond 24 it's always float and [TS]

00:04:46   you have floating point presentations [TS]

00:04:47   and the reason these matter is that as [TS]

00:04:51   you're encoding the music to these [TS]

00:04:54   samples there you have to fit a number [TS]

00:04:57   the value that you're getting from like [TS]

00:04:58   the analog or whatever you have to fit [TS]

00:05:00   the value of that into this many bits of [TS]

00:05:03   a number per sample and so there's a [TS]

00:05:06   certain degree of rounding that happens [TS]

00:05:08   and a certain degree of error that's [TS]

00:05:09   introduced as part of that rounding if [TS]

00:05:11   you only have 16 bits then that's that [TS]

00:05:15   kind of limits your resolution of how [TS]

00:05:16   you know how precise of a number you can [TS]

00:05:19   represent there and so there's all sorts [TS]

00:05:20   of complicated things that go on in Dax [TS]

00:05:22   and ATC's about basically how you round [TS]

00:05:26   the numbers in such a way to minimize [TS]

00:05:28   the error or to hide the error and [TS]

00:05:32   different noise patterns and everything [TS]

00:05:33   else as you increase the error rate you [TS]

00:05:38   increase the noise floor so you ain't [TS]

00:05:40   you you reduce these signal-to-noise [TS]

00:05:41   ratio that's the difference between the [TS]

00:05:43   loudest sound you can hear and the [TS]

00:05:44   quietest sound that can be represented [TS]

00:05:46   but you know below like the noise floor [TS]

00:05:47   so you basically increase like the [TS]

00:05:48   hislop the very bottom of the track the [TS]

00:05:51   reason why audiophiles freaked out about [TS]

00:05:53   this is because when you go from 16-bit [TS]

00:05:56   - 24-bit which is where they usually go [TS]

00:05:58   the noise floor does drop considerably [TS]

00:06:00   there's a great Wikipedia article title [TS]

00:06:02   audio a bit depth you should check it [TS]

00:06:04   out [TS]

00:06:04   basically the noise floor at 24 bits for [TS]

00:06:09   four bit depth is 144 decibels and it's [TS]

00:06:12   16 bits the regular CD standards only 96 [TS]

00:06:15   so that's a pretty big difference [TS]

00:06:17   however the reason that doesn't really [TS]

00:06:21   matter for the most part is that 96 [TS]

00:06:24   decibels of suitable noise ratio covers [TS]

00:06:26   the human audible hearing range pretty [TS]

00:06:28   well the actual human audible hearing is [TS]

00:06:30   just something like 120 decibels it [TS]

00:06:32   varies per person a little bit but it's [TS]

00:06:33   around a hundred mils so it actually [TS]

00:06:36   isn't representing the entire human [TS]

00:06:38   audible hearing range but it's [TS]

00:06:40   like you don't want to turn your [TS]

00:06:42   speaker's up so loud that you're [TS]

00:06:45   actually damaging your eardrums like the [TS]

00:06:47   human hearing range can go much higher [TS]

00:06:49   in in volume than what you actually [TS]

00:06:51   should ever be listening to on a [TS]

00:06:53   sustained basis like that's like you [TS]

00:06:55   know a rock concert or a jet airplane [TS]

00:06:57   flying overhead or things about its if [TS]

00:06:59   you listen at any reasonable length to [TS]

00:07:02   something that loud you're gonna damage [TS]

00:07:04   your hearing pretty quickly permanently [TS]

00:07:06   so 90s accessible zuv signal noise ratio [TS]

00:07:09   which is what you get from CD quality [TS]

00:07:10   16-bit audio is good enough upon [TS]

00:07:14   listening where it matters is if you are [TS]

00:07:18   editing if you're proud if you're [TS]

00:07:19   recording like I record my end of the [TS]

00:07:21   show is 24-bit I record audio 24-bit [TS]

00:07:24   whenever I can or as float even whenever [TS]

00:07:26   I can with 32-bit usually because when [TS]

00:07:28   you're editing you're changing the [TS]

00:07:29   numbers you're processing the audio and [TS]

00:07:31   so if you have rounding error over time [TS]

00:07:34   that could add up after you apply [TS]

00:07:36   certain number of like filters or [TS]

00:07:37   adjustments or anything like that and [TS]

00:07:39   then that 96 decibels of noise floor [TS]

00:07:41   that was in the original signal once you [TS]

00:07:43   process it a few times and you're [TS]

00:07:44   rounding off the numbers a few more [TS]

00:07:46   times you might actually have more error [TS]

00:07:48   in the signal than that and the noise [TS]

00:07:50   floor might start to become audible so [TS]

00:07:53   we're higher bitrate audio makes sense [TS]

00:07:55   is in mastering and editing and [TS]

00:07:57   recording but the final shift version [TS]

00:07:59   that you that you release to the public [TS]

00:08:01   or the version that you the listener are [TS]

00:08:03   listening to doesn't need to be more [TS]

00:08:05   than 16-bit for almost any reason [TS]

00:08:07   whatsoever [TS]

00:08:08   all right sorry that's all it says Oh [TS]

00:08:13   Marco that you you really care about [TS]

00:08:16   audio I don't understand where this [TS]

00:08:18   comes from if you want also there's a [TS]

00:08:19   wonderful video that explains a lot of [TS]

00:08:22   this [TS]

00:08:22   there's a guy Monty I think his full [TS]

00:08:24   name is Chris Montgomery he is you know [TS]

00:08:26   the guy or one of the people who [TS]

00:08:28   invented the aw glorious audio codec and [TS]

00:08:30   he has a lot of great explainers out [TS]

00:08:34   there about basically like why you don't [TS]

00:08:36   need higher than CD quality audio as a [TS]

00:08:38   listener and and explains a lot of the [TS]

00:08:40   stuff that I learned a lot from that and [TS]

00:08:41   it's my other research but I'll have [TS]

00:08:43   both these links in the show notes about [TS]

00:08:44   that video and the Wikipedia article on [TS]

00:08:46   audio bit depth excellent so we had a [TS]

00:08:50   couple of thoughts or listeners had a [TS]

00:08:52   couple of thoughts about the iPhone [TS]

00:08:54   crow knotch and I'm embarrassed to admit [TS]

00:08:57   that there's one thought that I didn't [TS]

00:08:59   consider so I'm in the camp that I think [TS]

00:09:03   not having seen anything of course that [TS]

00:09:05   it makes the most sense to to kind of [TS]

00:09:08   hide the knotch so hypothetically the [TS]

00:09:10   area adjacent to the notch would be all [TS]

00:09:13   black so it all kind of blend together [TS]

00:09:15   and it would just look like empty screen [TS]

00:09:16   in the center and it would look not too [TS]

00:09:18   dissimilar from the way a phone looks [TS]

00:09:20   today [TS]

00:09:20   but somebody maybe there's one of you [TS]

00:09:23   guys thought we'll okay smart guy what [TS]

00:09:25   happens when you go landscape and I [TS]

00:09:27   don't have a good answer for that I'm [TS]

00:09:31   really ashamed myself that I didn't even [TS]

00:09:33   think about this yeah until I saw this [TS]

00:09:35   in the show notes so Marco what do you [TS]

00:09:37   think about what happens when you put [TS]

00:09:39   this supposed phone in landscape so [TS]

00:09:42   obviously it depends on like how they [TS]

00:09:43   handle the notch in the in the UI [TS]

00:09:45   if the notch is basically hidden and you [TS]

00:09:48   just have like status bar black on left [TS]

00:09:50   and right and then you have like a [TS]

00:09:51   square window below it that takes of the [TS]

00:09:53   rest of the screen which as I mentioned [TS]

00:09:55   previously that's what I kind of hope [TS]

00:09:56   they do if that's what they do then I [TS]

00:10:00   think it's pretty easy in landscape you [TS]

00:10:02   just leave those little strips black and [TS]

00:10:05   you don't use them at all that's [TS]

00:10:07   probably not what they will do I have a [TS]

00:10:09   feeling what they actually will do is [TS]

00:10:10   you know shove translucent UI under [TS]

00:10:13   those and have ways to actually you know [TS]

00:10:15   use it in a way that might be kind of [TS]

00:10:18   awkward now in landscape the only reason [TS]

00:10:21   I think anybody to use their phones in [TS]

00:10:22   landscape I think probably the big ones [TS]

00:10:25   are watching video although even that a [TS]

00:10:27   lot of people watch it in portrait [TS]

00:10:28   anyway just because they're they that's [TS]

00:10:30   how they are used to holding their [TS]

00:10:31   phones also certain games play in [TS]

00:10:34   landscape although again I think the [TS]

00:10:36   most successful ones playing portrait on [TS]

00:10:37   the phone and then the other thing as I [TS]

00:10:39   guess when you're when you're taking [TS]

00:10:41   video or shooting with the camera you [TS]

00:10:42   might rotate it so all those things [TS]

00:10:44   could they could make ways to to use the [TS]

00:10:47   knotch [TS]

00:10:48   in a few clever ways like maybe a game [TS]

00:10:51   could show some controls in there maybe [TS]

00:10:53   the camera can show some controls in [TS]

00:10:54   there but I haven't feeling most of what [TS]

00:10:57   we're gonna see is basically going to be [TS]

00:10:58   in landscape the not just becomes black [TS]

00:11:01   and you don't see it at all yeah I think [TS]

00:11:03   you can't can't do anything with the [TS]

00:11:06   knotch inland [TS]

00:11:07   escaped because anything that you would [TS]

00:11:10   think of doing would represent data loss [TS]

00:11:11   to the content in portrait the status [TS]

00:11:15   bar is not your content it's part of the [TS]

00:11:17   UI so you can do whatever dance you want [TS]

00:11:19   to do with the status bar whether it you [TS]

00:11:20   know hides in there or the status bar is [TS]

00:11:22   the blower ever but how if you're in [TS]

00:11:25   landscape and you're doing video or [TS]

00:11:27   something even if the OS lets you go [TS]

00:11:29   edge to edge and use the notches what if [TS]

00:11:31   you want to see what's under the camera [TS]

00:11:33   things it's like something's in my way I [TS]

00:11:35   can't I can't see what the camera [TS]

00:11:37   shooting there no maybe that's not [TS]

00:11:38   important was there was something that [TS]

00:11:41   was angry about oh I think it was like [TS]

00:11:44   QuickTime Player many years ago maybe [TS]

00:11:47   still now I don't know I still use [TS]

00:11:48   QuickTime Player seven but at one point [TS]

00:11:50   Apple I believe Apple released a video [TS]

00:11:54   player I think it was the QuickTime [TS]

00:11:55   Player [TS]

00:11:55   that would show video in a window with [TS]

00:11:58   rounded corners and it was like what's [TS]

00:12:02   like don't chop off the corner it's like [TS]

00:12:04   there's video in those corners why this [TS]

00:12:06   is a lot of video but there is video [TS]

00:12:08   there and just like no you don't need to [TS]

00:12:09   see that because it's more important for [TS]

00:12:11   this window to ever end of course than [TS]

00:12:12   for you to see the video that's in that [TS]

00:12:15   corner and I know it's just a small [TS]

00:12:16   thing but just on the principle it's [TS]

00:12:19   like if you do that I don't even have [TS]

00:12:22   the option to see what's under the [TS]

00:12:25   knotch [TS]

00:12:26   right so I think you have to just when [TS]

00:12:28   you go into landscape I feel like the OS [TS]

00:12:32   are just enforced entirely maybe games [TS]

00:12:34   come up with something clever like [TS]

00:12:35   little men climb on the knotch writer [TS]

00:12:36   than not just like a little gun turret [TS]

00:12:38   or something but McGee yeah cuz you can [TS]

00:12:42   incorporate it and be fun but it would [TS]

00:12:43   only work in this one model of phone [TS]

00:12:44   it's just so much safer to say when [TS]

00:12:46   anybody goes in landscape forget about [TS]

00:12:48   the notch we don't light up the pixels [TS]

00:12:49   on either side of it the thing is just [TS]

00:12:51   you know it's just a straight line down [TS]

00:12:54   the edge I also saw by the way it's [TS]

00:12:56   another mock-up image for a while ago [TS]

00:12:58   showing screen real estate wise what do [TS]

00:13:02   you get with the edge to edge phone and [TS]

00:13:03   I know this can't be true because this [TS]

00:13:04   one's got to be wider than the iPhone 7 [TS]

00:13:06   - but it was like basically trying to [TS]

00:13:09   say you don't really get any new space [TS]

00:13:11   because all the new pixels on the bottom [TS]

00:13:13   are taken up essentially with the home [TS]

00:13:14   button area and whatever they're going [TS]

00:13:16   to do [TS]

00:13:16   there and this thing was assuming that [TS]

00:13:18   like the UI and navbar wasn't gonna [TS]

00:13:20   throw stuff there and in the top you've [TS]

00:13:22   got the notch and then you got a little [TS]

00:13:26   sliver of space and then you've got the [TS]

00:13:28   normal iPhone sized screen in between [TS]

00:13:29   those two things and little sliver of [TS]

00:13:31   space was like look like a little status [TS]

00:13:34   bar so the idea was that I guess if you [TS]

00:13:36   had a non optimized for iPhone Pro [TS]

00:13:40   application it would show its status bar [TS]

00:13:43   below the knotch in the traditional way [TS]

00:13:45   because between the bottom of the notch [TS]

00:13:47   in the top of the software home button [TS]

00:13:49   area would be a screen that is the same [TS]

00:13:52   resolution as some existing a high phone [TS]

00:13:54   anyway that's that's the impression I [TS]

00:13:55   got from this image but the more I think [TS]

00:13:57   about them I think I can't possibly be [TS]

00:13:58   the case because at the very least it [TS]

00:13:59   should be wider everything other stuff [TS]

00:14:01   but it would be weird if there was like [TS]

00:14:04   a backward compatibility mode for [TS]

00:14:06   unmodified apps that were not like notch [TS]

00:14:10   savvy you know what I mean like they [TS]

00:14:12   could they miss that you know he was [TS]

00:14:15   like that it's inelegant they took they [TS]

00:14:17   you know phone apps run it to X on your [TS]

00:14:18   iPad to this day and it looks terrible [TS]

00:14:20   and they zoom things that have not been [TS]

00:14:22   updated for the iPhone 5 for more like [TS]

00:14:26   they in the past they've done that and [TS]

00:14:27   it's been a good choice but it's like [TS]

00:14:29   look if people don't update their apps [TS]

00:14:30   will make them run as close as possible [TS]

00:14:32   to the way they used to run so the app [TS]

00:14:34   has no idea that is running a totally [TS]

00:14:36   new weird phone it just looks a little [TS]

00:14:37   bit strange but it's completely [TS]

00:14:39   compatible because we don't do anything [TS]

00:14:41   weird and I can imagine that happening [TS]

00:14:43   with with this new phone which will be [TS]

00:14:47   bad but I guess will motivate people to [TS]

00:14:49   incorporate the notch into their [TS]

00:14:51   applications fair enough now why bother [TS]

00:14:55   having the notch in the first place [TS]

00:14:57   again this is one of my thoughts why are [TS]

00:15:02   we doing this way I have a notch like [TS]

00:15:05   the edge to edge screen alright yeah we [TS]

00:15:07   won't have an edge miscreant but why do [TS]

00:15:08   we have to have a notch of that you can [TS]

00:15:09   go all the way to the left it all went [TS]

00:15:12   to the right edge and all the way to the [TS]

00:15:13   bottom edge all you had to do is not go [TS]

00:15:15   all the way to the top edge instead of [TS]

00:15:17   having a notch you have a presumably [TS]

00:15:19   very thin little forehead it would still [TS]

00:15:22   be a quote-unquote edge to edge screen [TS]

00:15:25   as compared to all I phones previously [TS]

00:15:28   would have very large chins and for [TS]

00:15:30   Red's right the the notch is [TS]

00:15:32   asymmetrical and so with the the the [TS]

00:15:34   skinny little forehead version but it [TS]

00:15:37   would last a symmetrical John the notch [TS]

00:15:40   I mean well but you know the whole point [TS]

00:15:44   is there's something that's Hoppus out [TS]

00:15:45   on the bottom whether it's a skinny [TS]

00:15:46   thing if something's happen anyway and [TS]

00:15:49   it would just it would just eliminate an [TS]

00:15:51   entire class we would solve our problems [TS]

00:15:53   so presumably Apple has done a lot of [TS]

00:15:54   work in the OS and then the frameworks [TS]

00:15:57   figuring out the answers to all these [TS]

00:15:58   questions that we're just guessing at [TS]

00:16:00   now right they've done they've figured [TS]

00:16:01   out answers to all of these they've [TS]

00:16:02   decided what they're gonna do in all [TS]

00:16:03   these different cases tested [TS]

00:16:05   applications test the new API so you can [TS]

00:16:07   be notch savvy and do all this stuff [TS]

00:16:09   right all that work would go away if [TS]

00:16:11   they just made the notch go from edge to [TS]

00:16:13   edge but I guess the phone wouldn't look [TS]

00:16:15   as cool and then you know I don't know [TS]

00:16:18   like does anyone else have a notch [TS]

00:16:19   example gonna be the first night run I [TS]

00:16:21   know there are phones out there that [TS]

00:16:22   already look like edge to edge screen [TS]

00:16:24   both a little skinny for head so maybe [TS]

00:16:25   Apple just didn't want to look like that [TS]

00:16:28   one of those things where if Apple was [TS]

00:16:33   like other companies and like you could [TS]

00:16:37   they have like interviews with the [TS]

00:16:38   designer it's like you get the whole [TS]

00:16:39   team that design the new iPhone and [TS]

00:16:42   they'd help to do a big article and like [TS]

00:16:43   wired or something and be like tell me [TS]

00:16:44   about your motivation for design there [TS]

00:16:46   and they would like explain why they [TS]

00:16:48   went with the knotch [TS]

00:16:48   right but we never get those reasons [TS]

00:16:50   just like this is the phone here it is [TS]

00:16:52   maybe there's a sentence and a key note [TS]

00:16:54   about it which Apple never ever [TS]

00:16:56   elaborate on yeah like so we just have [TS]

00:17:00   to wait 20 years for the tell-all books [TS]

00:17:02   but it's a bit of a head-scratcher for [TS]

00:17:04   me because I think it looks cool to [TS]

00:17:06   notch I think there's gonna be some [TS]

00:17:07   interesting possibilities there but it [TS]

00:17:09   is a heck of a lot of work and it seems [TS]

00:17:12   like a stopgap like if we're gonna have [TS]

00:17:15   not just forever presumably whatever [TS]

00:17:17   tech issues necessitate the knotch will [TS]

00:17:20   diminish over time either your old embed [TS]

00:17:23   those sensors someplace else or you'll [TS]

00:17:25   be able to make such a skinny forehead [TS]

00:17:26   that it won't even be a far heaven would [TS]

00:17:27   just be like thing goes to edge to edge [TS]

00:17:29   or I don't know the good that this is [TS]

00:17:31   not the permanent state of what like [TS]

00:17:32   well all future iPhones have notches for [TS]

00:17:35   the next seven years there's gonna be [TS]

00:17:36   notches from here to there but I dunno I [TS]

00:17:38   kept doing all this work with the OS and [TS]

00:17:39   everything it seemed like a waste if [TS]

00:17:42   it's just like there [TS]

00:17:43   the time we rejiggered all the the [TS]

00:17:45   frameworks in the west of this one phone [TS]

00:17:47   and it was the only one that ended up [TS]

00:17:48   having a notch I don't know we'll find [TS]

00:17:51   out in the fall I guess yeah this is [TS]

00:17:53   this is why what I want to happen [TS]

00:17:55   although I don't think this is what will [TS]

00:17:57   happen again but what I want to happen [TS]

00:17:59   here is I want the notch to to basically [TS]

00:18:02   be invisible in the software like I want [TS]

00:18:05   it to just have a status bar on left and [TS]

00:18:07   right then then you you get the extra 20 [TS]

00:18:10   point height that the status bar would [TS]

00:18:12   have taken up in the main screen you can [TS]

00:18:13   shove that up and in you know into this [TS]

00:18:15   little side area where there is no [TS]

00:18:16   center but you can rearrange status bar [TS]

00:18:18   and in the application frame is just [TS]

00:18:20   everything below that I would love that [TS]

00:18:22   was the solution [TS]

00:18:23   I don't want as a user and as a [TS]

00:18:26   programmer of apps for this thing and as [TS]

00:18:28   a designer of the app I do not want to [TS]

00:18:30   have to deal with the knotch [TS]

00:18:31   I think it will be clunky and weird and [TS]

00:18:34   I think it will look weird as a user I'm [TS]

00:18:35   not looking forward to that at all and I [TS]

00:18:37   do think it looks like an inelegant hack [TS]

00:18:39   and if Samsung would have released that [TS]

00:18:42   knotch [TS]

00:18:42   and Apple didn't we'd make fun of them [TS]

00:18:44   for it that's exactly the kind of thing [TS]

00:18:46   we'd be like oh you guys are bad at [TS]

00:18:47   design look at those stupid knotch just [TS]

00:18:49   like the flea and like the flat tire [TS]

00:18:50   moto 360 watch like we made fun of that [TS]

00:18:53   relentlessly everyone in Apple world did [TS]

00:18:55   because that was that was like a bad [TS]

00:18:58   design hack to get around a physical [TS]

00:19:00   shortcoming I don't see how the notch is [TS]

00:19:02   any different that looks like a bad [TS]

00:19:04   design hack to get her in a facility or [TS]

00:19:05   coding domain again we'll see what [TS]

00:19:07   happens when when we see the final [TS]

00:19:08   software but I really do not want the UI [TS]

00:19:12   in any way to wrap around that except [TS]

00:19:15   the status bar in a way that you barely [TS]

00:19:17   even notice but because of that leaked [TS]

00:19:19   image from the home hot firmware showing [TS]

00:19:22   that knotch as like the recognizable [TS]

00:19:24   iconic shape of this phone that's the [TS]

00:19:27   reason I'm concerned that they're not [TS]

00:19:28   doing it that way now let's ben lock [TS]

00:19:30   screen like i said it may yeah maybe [TS]

00:19:31   just the lockscreen that that wouldn't [TS]

00:19:33   be too bad but if it's any other parts [TS]

00:19:35   of the UI like if they scroll [TS]

00:19:37   translucent bars under there or anything [TS]

00:19:38   with that i really i don't think i'm [TS]

00:19:41   going to like that that again it seems [TS]

00:19:42   like that seems like a bad design hack [TS]

00:19:45   not good design [TS]

00:19:47   so people that chatroom are posting [TS]

00:19:49   pictures of of course android phones [TS]

00:19:50   that have their own little notches the [TS]

00:19:52   one they're saying showing here it's a [TS]

00:19:54   very tiny notch it just wraps around one [TS]

00:19:56   low [TS]

00:19:56   facing camera cuz obviously the you know [TS]

00:19:59   what is uh the the new phone supposedly [TS]

00:20:01   have a notch instead of just this little [TS]

00:20:02   tiny button like cut out because it's [TS]

00:20:05   got to have more than just a camera [TS]

00:20:06   there maybe they'll have two front [TS]

00:20:07   facing cameras certainly it's got the IR [TS]

00:20:09   sensor for depths of the face stuff like [TS]

00:20:10   who knows what's in that notch but it [TS]

00:20:12   can't be smallest but anybody as in all [TS]

00:20:15   things Android phones have done first so [TS]

00:20:19   I think actually Simpsons did a first [TS]

00:20:20   round then opera hopper that Simpsons [TS]

00:20:24   did it is the line opera did it first is [TS]

00:20:28   that joke so I think opera wins this one [TS]

00:20:29   thank you [TS]

00:20:30   did you really just well actually mean [TS]

00:20:33   the sad part is right we are sponsored [TS]

00:20:38   this week by Eero go to Iran calm and [TS]

00:20:40   use code ATP for free overnight shipping [TS]

00:20:43   Wi-Fi when you only have one router just [TS]

00:20:46   doesn't cover houses very well because [TS]

00:20:48   Wi-Fi waves don't go through walls as [TS]

00:20:50   well as I go through open spaces and you [TS]

00:20:52   get these dead zones and everything else [TS]

00:20:53   euro is designed to solve that problem [TS]

00:20:55   because businesses and schools and [TS]

00:20:59   campuses have done this for a long time [TS]

00:21:00   they use multiple access points and if [TS]

00:21:02   you did this for your home it was a very [TS]

00:21:05   very complicated before euro euro makes [TS]

00:21:07   it incredibly easy to have a distributed [TS]

00:21:10   Wi-Fi system enterprise-grade Wi-Fi in [TS]

00:21:12   your home with the easiest setup of any [TS]

00:21:15   system I've ever seen all you do you [TS]

00:21:17   plug it in you use their app on your [TS]

00:21:19   iPhone or your Android phone and sets it [TS]

00:21:22   up and you have to do literally almost [TS]

00:21:23   nothing so you get the one main unit and [TS]

00:21:26   they've actually just updated their [TS]

00:21:28   hardware the old ones are great too but [TS]

00:21:29   they just did the generation 2 system so [TS]

00:21:32   this has the main unit which is now [TS]

00:21:34   tribe and as twice and twice as fast as [TS]

00:21:36   the first one has hold a radio you have [TS]

00:21:39   these now these secondary units they [TS]

00:21:41   used to be the same as the as the main [TS]

00:21:43   unit now they have these little ones [TS]

00:21:44   called beacons and they are even smaller [TS]

00:21:46   even simpler they look like kind of just [TS]

00:21:48   slightly larger than a night light and [TS]

00:21:50   you just plug it in sits flush in your [TS]

00:21:52   outlet it looks amazing it's tiny it's [TS]

00:21:54   unobtrusive they even actually have [TS]

00:21:55   night lights in the bottom of the [TS]

00:21:57   beacons look is pretty cool so if you [TS]

00:21:59   put it like in a hallway or anything and [TS]

00:22:00   it makes it so easy to place anywhere [TS]

00:22:02   and that covers the whole house and they [TS]

00:22:04   don't have to be wired to each other [TS]

00:22:05   only the first one has to be wired to [TS]

00:22:08   your home's internet connection [TS]

00:22:09   and the other ones you just they [TS]

00:22:11   distribute the Wi-Fi with a mesh network [TS]

00:22:13   between themselves so you don't have to [TS]

00:22:15   worry about running Ethernet wires to [TS]

00:22:17   your access points or anything else it's [TS]

00:22:19   super super easy with the new second [TS]

00:22:22   generation and the ear a beacon [TS]

00:22:23   performance is even better the looks or [TS]

00:22:25   even nicer and it's even smaller what [TS]

00:22:27   you need is this kind of system single [TS]

00:22:29   routers are not good enough anymore they [TS]

00:22:31   don't cover houses we all know that they [TS]

00:22:33   we've all done that for years no matter [TS]

00:22:34   how many antennas you put on one it [TS]

00:22:36   doesn't cover everything an euro is by [TS]

00:22:38   far the easiest way to do this I've ever [TS]

00:22:39   seen so check it out they have great [TS]

00:22:41   support if you need it they have great [TS]

00:22:42   pricing go to Eero calm and use promo [TS]

00:22:46   code ATP to get free overnight shipping [TS]

00:22:49   thanks to ero for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:22:51   [Music] [TS]

00:22:54   anyway [TS]

00:22:55   wisdom camera kerimov of 1password i [TS]

00:22:58   believe a co-founder if I'm not mistaken [TS]

00:22:59   has a written blog post to say among [TS]

00:23:02   other things one password 7th windows [TS]

00:23:03   will be getting support for standalone [TS]

00:23:05   vaults which is the thing that started [TS]

00:23:07   the big kerfuffle a few weeks ago also [TS]

00:23:10   WLAN sync and different license related [TS]

00:23:13   information John any other thoughts you [TS]

00:23:16   want to add on this no just that this is [TS]

00:23:18   another in that pattern we've seen for a [TS]

00:23:20   couple of a couple of years now that [TS]

00:23:23   like a company will change some part of [TS]

00:23:25   its product either the features or the [TS]

00:23:27   business model or both and then a bunch [TS]

00:23:29   of people get angry about it and then [TS]

00:23:31   there's always it's always the follow-up [TS]

00:23:33   we're like they've incorporated the [TS]

00:23:34   feedback from their customers like they [TS]

00:23:36   you know they were taken by surprise by [TS]

00:23:38   how you know angry people are about a [TS]

00:23:41   particular thing and they all right well [TS]

00:23:42   we can change that you know to reassure [TS]

00:23:44   people that like we're not gonna you [TS]

00:23:45   know the description thing is not going [TS]

00:23:47   to take away your ability to have all [TS]

00:23:48   your stuff locally you don't have to use [TS]

00:23:49   the cloud so on and so forth so looks [TS]

00:23:51   like they are doing the right things [TS]

00:23:54   yeah I saw a lot of feedback about this [TS]

00:23:58   a lot of people talked about well if if [TS]

00:24:03   everything goes subscription then I'm [TS]

00:24:05   not gonna have any money for anything [TS]

00:24:07   anymore and I don't know I feel like we [TS]

00:24:10   should address that perhaps again I [TS]

00:24:12   don't know what did we talk about this [TS]

00:24:13   Marko covered it the last time we talked [TS]

00:24:16   about it [TS]

00:24:17   I agree it's fresh in my mind it's fresh [TS]

00:24:20   in my mind I listen to those shows just [TS]

00:24:21   recently did [TS]

00:24:22   but yeah like it is it's kind of a [TS]

00:24:25   slippery slope argument but so far it [TS]

00:24:26   hasn't happened and it there is a [TS]

00:24:28   there's a natural counterbalance which [TS]

00:24:30   is well if people don't like it they [TS]

00:24:31   won't buy it and if they don't buy it [TS]

00:24:33   people won't do it like so it's you know [TS]

00:24:34   there's there aren't many forces in the [TS]

00:24:37   mix here that are going to cause this [TS]

00:24:41   dystopia to happen despite the fact that [TS]

00:24:43   users don't want it like it's possible [TS]

00:24:46   for there to be countervailing forces [TS]

00:24:47   for example if Apple said hey guess what [TS]

00:24:49   the only way you could sell plication is [TS]

00:24:51   in the app course it's a subscription [TS]

00:24:52   but that that's not the way things are [TS]

00:24:54   so I it's not not time to be worried [TS]

00:24:56   about it now don't like it don't buy it [TS]

00:24:59   exactly exactly what I was gonna say if [TS]

00:25:01   something if something that you you like [TS]

00:25:03   but don't love suddenly become [TS]

00:25:05   subscription then guess what you're you [TS]

00:25:07   have an option which is not to get a [TS]

00:25:09   subscription that's okay the one thing I [TS]

00:25:12   will say though is that the the if if a [TS]

00:25:14   app goes from not subscription to [TS]

00:25:17   subscription like there's no way around [TS]

00:25:18   that that's going to happen from time to [TS]

00:25:20   time and that is tough right because [TS]

00:25:22   here it is you thought you paid for [TS]

00:25:23   something in some cases that that you [TS]

00:25:26   would have for a while although you [TS]

00:25:27   should not have expected that you have [TS]

00:25:28   it forever and then the the cost changes [TS]

00:25:31   and that's a bummer like the I don't [TS]

00:25:33   mean to be sarcastic all at all about [TS]

00:25:35   that that really is a bummer but there's [TS]

00:25:37   different trade-offs to like that one [TS]

00:25:38   person who said like what if I lose my [TS]

00:25:40   job I don't want to also lose all my [TS]

00:25:42   programs because I can't afford to pay [TS]

00:25:43   their monthly bills anymore [TS]

00:25:44   well you know that's the smile I lose my [TS]

00:25:47   job I don't want to lose cable TV [TS]

00:25:48   because they can't afford the bill [TS]

00:25:49   anymore [TS]

00:25:50   well you know it's like well I need this [TS]

00:25:51   offer to do my job like there presumably [TS]

00:25:53   every single application an entire [TS]

00:25:56   category won't be subscription right or [TS]

00:25:58   even if it is maybe they'll have varying [TS]

00:26:00   subscriptions and right now the [TS]

00:26:02   subscriptions are like three bucks a [TS]

00:26:03   month so I feel like if you can't script [TS]

00:26:04   you know three dollars a month you have [TS]

00:26:06   much bigger problems than not being able [TS]

00:26:08   to use your graphics program to produce [TS]

00:26:10   spec work which you shouldn't be doing [TS]

00:26:11   anyway to get your next job so anyway [TS]

00:26:13   you know in times of hardship many [TS]

00:26:17   things are difficult from paying your [TS]

00:26:20   rent to your food your health insurance [TS]

00:26:21   your software licenses are just another [TS]

00:26:24   one of those potential things that could [TS]

00:26:26   be a problem but you know if there's a [TS]

00:26:29   need for this then if this is a real [TS]

00:26:30   problem [TS]

00:26:30   someone will fill it by selling a [TS]

00:26:32   program for a fixed price [TS]

00:26:35   and you know selling upgrades in the [TS]

00:26:37   traditional way or going into business [TS]

00:26:39   because they can't sustain their one [TS]

00:26:41   application but hey you've got it until [TS]

00:26:42   it stops working I mean there's always [TS]

00:26:44   options to like you know look at what [TS]

00:26:45   like high school kids and college kids [TS]

00:26:48   and people in developing countries like [TS]

00:26:49   there's a lot of markets of people who [TS]

00:26:51   can't afford a bunch of software [TS]

00:26:53   licenses or subscriptions and they find [TS]

00:26:55   other options [TS]

00:26:56   piracy maybe he's not the best option [TS]

00:26:59   but it's certainly a widespread one a [TS]

00:27:01   much better option is free software [TS]

00:27:03   alternatives almost every kind of task [TS]

00:27:06   you can do in a computer today has some [TS]

00:27:08   kind of free software alternative to the [TS]

00:27:09   big-name one Photoshop Illustrator you [TS]

00:27:12   know audio processing stuff like all [TS]

00:27:14   that like almost all these like big [TS]

00:27:15   creative apps or productivity apps they [TS]

00:27:18   almost all have freeware alternatives [TS]

00:27:20   free open-source if not just you know [TS]

00:27:22   free alternatives and not to mention you [TS]

00:27:25   know the all the stuff built into the OS [TS]

00:27:26   is these days or doing things on on iOS [TS]

00:27:30   and Android where the apps cost very [TS]

00:27:33   very little money usually and usually [TS]

00:27:34   you you you know buy it once if anything [TS]

00:27:37   and it's free and you can do a lot of [TS]

00:27:39   free stuff there or we do a lot of [TS]

00:27:40   inexpensive stuff there with tools that [TS]

00:27:42   are really good these days like there's [TS]

00:27:44   lots of options now I think that I think [TS]

00:27:47   the D like I can't afford all my [TS]

00:27:49   software subscriptions thing is mostly a [TS]

00:27:53   complaint from people who very much [TS]

00:27:55   can't afford them and are just looking [TS]

00:27:58   for a reason to be upset about a pricing [TS]

00:28:00   change because when you change the [TS]

00:28:02   business model that's when people get [TS]

00:28:03   upset it matters a lot less what you [TS]

00:28:05   change it to then the fact that you [TS]

00:28:07   changed it and people feel may be [TS]

00:28:09   surprised or caught off guard by that or [TS]

00:28:13   feel like they're being taken advantage [TS]

00:28:13   of like after the fact you're changing [TS]

00:28:15   the deal you know after the fact you [TS]

00:28:17   know I know pray you don't sort of [TS]

00:28:18   further etc I don't again I don't think [TS]

00:28:20   this is a real issue I I don't think [TS]

00:28:23   this is something that anybody is [TS]

00:28:24   actually facing hardship over in any [TS]

00:28:27   real numbers this is people complaining [TS]

00:28:29   who very much can't afford it and and [TS]

00:28:31   are just mad and for the people who [TS]

00:28:33   truly can't afford it there's lots of [TS]

00:28:35   great options out there that are either [TS]

00:28:37   inexpensive or free and many of them are [TS]

00:28:39   built into the OS you already have and [TS]

00:28:41   whatever isn't you can get in your App [TS]

00:28:44   Store of choice or your online [TS]

00:28:46   repository of software of choice [TS]

00:28:48   for very little money or nothing usually [TS]

00:28:51   because this is not like people use [TS]

00:28:53   computers without paying for things on [TS]

00:28:55   them for a very long time this is this [TS]

00:28:58   is a solved problem in so many ways all [TS]

00:29:01   right [TS]

00:29:02   ero wants to know is there any reason [TS]

00:29:04   not to use the built-in calibration [TS]

00:29:05   tools on the Apple TV you can get to [TS]

00:29:07   that from the opportunity settings audio [TS]

00:29:10   and video calibrate you can use them but [TS]

00:29:12   they're terrible I mean like they're [TS]

00:29:15   terrible they're limited like I think at [TS]

00:29:18   all it does is like screen bounds and [TS]

00:29:21   maybe like one other thing like it [TS]

00:29:23   doesn't do all the color or white [TS]

00:29:27   balance greyscale brightness contrast [TS]

00:29:29   you know doesn't do all that stuff if [TS]

00:29:31   they want to improve that in a future [TS]

00:29:32   version TV also would be great but the [TS]

00:29:35   current one and I believe the one in the [TS]

00:29:37   the betas it still does very limit it's [TS]

00:29:41   better than nothing so by all means do [TS]

00:29:42   it in so you can see if you're in a case [TS]

00:29:43   you like situation where you're missing [TS]

00:29:44   half the pixels on your screen because [TS]

00:29:46   not half but some portion of the pixels [TS]

00:29:48   on your screen because you have your [TS]

00:29:49   thing an over scan mode and that may [TS]

00:29:52   make you sad to know that but beyond [TS]

00:29:53   that you still need the calibration it [TS]

00:29:55   fine fine [TS]

00:29:57   all right apparently Samir Mizrahi [TS]

00:30:00   listens to our show or at least that's [TS]

00:30:02   what I'm going to claim because mere [TS]

00:30:04   weeks maybe even a few days after we had [TS]

00:30:08   discussed how frustrating it is to hear [TS]

00:30:11   the first song in your library every [TS]

00:30:13   time you reconnect the ax Bluetooth this [TS]

00:30:16   this individual has released a single on [TS]

00:30:18   iTunes called aaaa a very good song and [TS]

00:30:23   it is it's a little less than 10 minutes [TS]

00:30:26   of silence because apparently any more [TS]

00:30:28   than 10 minutes and iTunes charges you [TS]

00:30:29   for a whole album and the idea is [TS]

00:30:32   because it's a space a space a space a [TS]

00:30:34   space a space very good song it is very [TS]

00:30:37   likely to be the very first song in your [TS]

00:30:39   in your library so every time you plug [TS]

00:30:43   in your phone or start bluetooth or [TS]

00:30:44   what-have-you you don't hear the same in [TS]

00:30:47   my case track by olya every single time [TS]

00:30:49   so this is an absolutely brilliant [TS]

00:30:52   solution to a problem that none of us [TS]

00:30:54   should really have my favorite thing [TS]

00:30:56   about this is how far up the charts it [TS]

00:30:59   was climbing like we saw some articles [TS]

00:31:02   about it [TS]

00:31:02   in there I don't have anything hand [TS]

00:31:04   unfortunately cuz I'm a slacker on [TS]

00:31:05   vacation but like it was it was [TS]

00:31:08   noticeably ranking on the iTunes top [TS]

00:31:11   singles chart somewhere why you're not [TS]

00:31:15   allowed to start with like a spacer you [TS]

00:31:18   know a punctuation character or number [TS]

00:31:20   or all the other things that would have [TS]

00:31:21   sorted before the A's because I feel [TS]

00:31:23   like now now this is now you've started [TS]

00:31:24   a war now for who can be the earliest [TS]

00:31:26   try no don't get that AAA track you need [TS]

00:31:29   my track which is one one one I'll get [TS]

00:31:31   money it's it's space space space [TS]

00:31:33   exclamation point anyway well I feel [TS]

00:31:37   like that's kind of like a like a [TS]

00:31:38   million dollar homepage problem like [TS]

00:31:40   anybody else who tries the same thing is [TS]

00:31:42   it's not gonna get anywhere yeah I I'm [TS]

00:31:46   just thanked for sorting purposes not [TS]

00:31:47   for like actually selling the thing um [TS]

00:31:49   but you know everyone sent us this [TS]

00:31:51   obviously but it doesn't solve the [TS]

00:31:53   problem at all in fact I think it makes [TS]

00:31:54   it worse the fact that it sound makes it [TS]

00:31:56   worse because if I had this track I [TS]

00:31:59   would be like waiting and thinking am i [TS]

00:32:03   hearing the silent track or is it just [TS]

00:32:05   taking a long time to start playing like [TS]

00:32:06   is it launching overcast in the [TS]

00:32:08   background or and like you know the [TS]

00:32:10   problem is not I keep hearing the first [TS]

00:32:13   you know few notes of a song because the [TS]

00:32:16   alphabet be alphabetically first song in [TS]

00:32:17   my playlist I like it's a good song and [TS]

00:32:19   I'm not sick of it because I never [TS]

00:32:20   listened it the whole thing I frustrated [TS]

00:32:22   by the fact that it has picked the wrong [TS]

00:32:24   source and by the way after I said like [TS]

00:32:26   most of the time that's the right thing [TS]

00:32:28   maybe 15 percent of the time I get the [TS]

00:32:29   wrong thing [TS]

00:32:30   this thing is taken revenge on me and my [TS]

00:32:33   last like 50 trips in the car one [TS]

00:32:36   percent of the time and I started [TS]

00:32:37   playing music even if I was just playing [TS]

00:32:38   I don't know if it's overcast beta is [TS]

00:32:41   crashing or I don't know what the hell's [TS]

00:32:42   going on but anyway it's really bad for [TS]

00:32:44   me wait there is no current beta you [TS]

00:32:46   should be using the App Store version [TS]

00:32:47   well that's the problem do I have a [TS]

00:32:49   little dot next overcast on my phone [TS]

00:32:51   it's a bug right now I do I do get rid [TS]

00:32:56   of that alright anyway maybe that's my [TS]

00:32:58   problem but either way this this crack [TS]

00:33:00   would not solve my problem in I mean [TS]

00:33:02   what did she really be as a voice that [TS]

00:33:03   says it happened again you you thought [TS]

00:33:07   different audio we were playing but [TS]

00:33:09   instead it's playing this song from your [TS]

00:33:10   playlist pull over safely and then [TS]

00:33:13   fiddle with your phone don't try to do [TS]

00:33:14   it while you're driving because [TS]

00:33:15   you'll run somebody over or you'll die [TS]

00:33:17   but you'd be sick of hearing that bottom [TS]

00:33:20   line is there is no safe track to put [TS]

00:33:21   there and I don't think the silence [TS]

00:33:22   solves the problem I think it makes it [TS]

00:33:23   worse but more power to this person for [TS]

00:33:25   seven people [TS]

00:33:26   the sounds of silence all right I don't [TS]

00:33:29   know how to sell music on iTunes but can [TS]

00:33:31   we cut that out and actually try this [TS]

00:33:32   and then be the way to solve this I know [TS]

00:33:35   we have some listeners inside of Apple I [TS]

00:33:37   don't know how high up they go but the [TS]

00:33:41   way to solve this is to somehow get a [TS]

00:33:43   hold of Johnny Ives or Tim Cook's iPhone [TS]

00:33:45   and sync a single track to it that is a [TS]

00:33:49   renamed version of some very annoying [TS]

00:33:52   song that is renamed to be like a Abe's [TS]

00:33:55   me I don't know the the the the [TS]

00:33:57   possibilities are endless of what's [TS]

00:33:59   honest could be [TS]

00:34:01   [Music] [TS]

00:34:12   [Music] [TS]

00:34:27   you know something something really that [TS]

00:34:30   would really dread the most this problem [TS]

00:34:31   will get solved in the next version of [TS]

00:34:33   iOS it fails Karl just B can innovate [TS]

00:34:36   more my ass on a loop my word so we [TS]

00:34:42   actually did get some feedback about [TS]

00:34:43   this and this individual rate wrote to [TS]

00:34:46   say Bluetooth has two major ways to [TS]

00:34:48   start playback in a car the good old [TS]

00:34:50   simple Play command and a newer set of [TS]

00:34:52   advanced browsing commands that allows [TS]

00:34:54   the car to control the apps and navigate [TS]

00:34:55   the media library on the phone with a [TS]

00:34:57   play command the active media player is [TS]

00:34:59   chosen by the phone and that from time [TS]

00:35:02   to time gets a little buggy according to [TS]

00:35:05   this person it is quite likely that this [TS]

00:35:07   whole little subsystem was written by [TS]

00:35:08   one person who may have then been moved [TS]

00:35:11   somewhere else within Apple and who even [TS]

00:35:13   knows but with the new browsing stuff [TS]

00:35:15   then the car can decide how it wants to [TS]

00:35:18   select you know like the active media [TS]

00:35:20   player and in a playlist and an album [TS]

00:35:22   and blah blah blah and so now you're [TS]

00:35:24   letting the car make choices that it [TS]

00:35:26   probably shouldn't be making and so that [TS]

00:35:30   makes everything a little bit dodgy so [TS]

00:35:32   this is this is surely in part apples [TS]

00:35:35   fault but it is not by necessity [TS]

00:35:37   entirely apples fault depending on the [TS]

00:35:40   car depending on how its connecting etc [TS]

00:35:42   etc etc where sponsor was week by [TS]

00:35:46   aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

00:35:48   go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

00:35:52   aftershokz headphones work by bone [TS]

00:35:54   conduction so these small transducers [TS]

00:35:56   rest in front of your ears not inside or [TS]

00:35:59   around them like most headphones and [TS]

00:36:00   they send mini vibrations through your [TS]

00:36:02   cheek bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

00:36:05   totally bypasses your ears and your [TS]

00:36:07   eardrums so unlike every other kind of [TS]

00:36:09   headphone bone conduction leave your [TS]

00:36:11   ears completely open with nothing in [TS]

00:36:13   them so for a lot of people like me we [TS]

00:36:16   can't wear earbuds or in-ear monitors do [TS]

00:36:18   they get physically uncomfortable in our [TS]

00:36:20   ear canals aftershocks don't have this [TS]

00:36:23   problem because nothing is sitting in [TS]

00:36:24   your ear and because they don't cover [TS]

00:36:26   your ear I find them far less sweaty [TS]

00:36:29   than regular headphones in the summer [TS]

00:36:31   time and they're even ip55 certified for [TS]

00:36:34   water-resistant so you can you can run [TS]

00:36:35   with them in the rain or you can just [TS]

00:36:37   sweat all [TS]

00:36:38   them all gross and it's totally fine I [TS]

00:36:40   have found that I use these more than [TS]

00:36:43   any other headphones in the summertime [TS]

00:36:44   in fact I'm on vacation right now for a [TS]

00:36:46   few weeks and I brought only these [TS]

00:36:48   headphones for walking all other [TS]

00:36:51   portable headphones I've left at home [TS]

00:36:52   because I will I only want to use these [TS]

00:36:54   here because I'm walking a lot and using [TS]

00:36:56   these multiple hours a day I'm sweating [TS]

00:36:58   a lot I'm sometime using them in the [TS]

00:36:59   rain and it's totally fine and the great [TS]

00:37:01   thing about it is that because nothing [TS]

00:37:02   blocks your ears at all you hear the [TS]

00:37:05   whole world around you so you can be [TS]

00:37:06   walking or you know maybe cycling or [TS]

00:37:09   running where you really want to hear [TS]

00:37:11   the world around you for safety reasons [TS]

00:37:12   or just to enjoy it and you need [TS]

00:37:15   something that doesn't block your ear [TS]

00:37:16   and that's what bone conduction is great [TS]

00:37:18   at it's also great if you want to listen [TS]

00:37:19   around the house you know if you want to [TS]

00:37:21   like take a phone call because you know [TS]

00:37:23   these are obviously a Bluetooth they can [TS]

00:37:24   do phone calls if you want to take a [TS]

00:37:25   phone call with them and maybe you want [TS]

00:37:27   to hear if anything happens in your [TS]

00:37:28   house and the process you can do that [TS]

00:37:30   too and so if I'm honest the downsides [TS]

00:37:32   here are there aren't the best for sound [TS]

00:37:34   quality and they don't get very loud if [TS]

00:37:35   you're in a very loud environment [TS]

00:37:36   because they're so open to the world if [TS]

00:37:39   you're in like a like a subway station [TS]

00:37:40   these wouldn't be the pick for you but [TS]

00:37:42   they're amazing for walking around [TS]

00:37:44   outside for any kind of exercise use for [TS]

00:37:48   around the house and anymore anything [TS]

00:37:50   you want it you want to hear the world [TS]

00:37:51   around you that's where the aftershocks [TS]

00:37:53   are great and again they're so awesome [TS]

00:37:54   for minimizing sweatiness too so the [TS]

00:37:56   aftershocks tracks titanium that I use [TS]

00:37:58   here retails for one hundred and thirty [TS]

00:37:59   bucks [TS]

00:37:59   listeners can get can get a pair for [TS]

00:38:01   yourself for just $100 90-95 by visiting [TS]

00:38:05   ATP aftershocks calm that is ATP [TS]

00:38:08   aftershocks calm [TS]

00:38:10   thanks to aftershocks for sponsoring our [TS]

00:38:12   show [TS]

00:38:13   [Music] [TS]

00:38:16   apparently SKT P is really a thing you [TS]

00:38:19   were John I think you'd said you wanted [TS]

00:38:20   it to be a thing in Marco you might have [TS]

00:38:21   said the same all right it apparently [TS]

00:38:24   it's a thing [TS]

00:38:24   well the question is where does it go [TS]

00:38:26   does it go after follow-up or does it go [TS]

00:38:27   after topics or does it go in the after [TS]

00:38:29   show where does it go no I think it goes [TS]

00:38:30   after follow-up it sounds good I think [TS]

00:38:32   that was right you always don't want to [TS]

00:38:36   keep us away from our topics that we [TS]

00:38:38   have long asked eighty people less [TS]

00:38:40   likely to get topics you know what we [TS]

00:38:41   could do John now down stick with me [TS]

00:38:43   here I know this is wild we could we [TS]

00:38:46   could have a little bit less follow-up [TS]

00:38:48   we just did I just did do that [TS]

00:38:50   are you sure we've been recording 45 [TS]

00:38:53   minutes I didn't an item about talking [TS]

00:38:56   about bit-depth for 20 minutes I was [TS]

00:38:57   Margo that was in 20 minutes anyway [TS]

00:38:59   Cain asks how do you guys sync your home [TS]

00:39:02   directories between your Macs and I will [TS]

00:39:04   go first I don't I use Dropbox for a [TS]

00:39:07   handful of things but generally speaking [TS]

00:39:09   it's all in the cloud man so who cares [TS]

00:39:12   same yeah I don't like my home directory [TS]

00:39:14   that's not a thing I mean I doubt many [TS]

00:39:17   people do that I think there used to be [TS]

00:39:18   a way to know I'm thinking of the server [TS]

00:39:21   thing never mind anyway when people do [TS]

00:39:23   is they just use cloud stuff whether [TS]

00:39:25   it's an iCloud Drive or Dropbox and [TS]

00:39:27   that's the stuff that syncs but they [TS]

00:39:28   don't stick their entire home [TS]

00:39:29   directories and it probably wouldn't be [TS]

00:39:30   a good idea to sync your entire home [TS]

00:39:32   directories because probably in the [TS]

00:39:33   library directory in your home directory [TS]

00:39:35   there's crap that is machine specific [TS]

00:39:36   somewhere lurking in there so you [TS]

00:39:38   probably don't want to do a naive full [TS]

00:39:40   sync of your entire home directory and [TS]

00:39:42   in general think is really hard to get [TS]

00:39:43   right and don't try setup something [TS]

00:39:45   yourself to do it because you'll just [TS]

00:39:46   end up posing yourself and you'll be set [TS]

00:39:49   fair enough this is a truly great [TS]

00:39:52   question which outside of the obvious I [TS]

00:39:56   don't have a really good answer to so [TS]

00:39:57   the question is from let me get a full [TS]

00:40:00   name if I can [TS]

00:40:01   Peter cam Peter cam asks what's one [TS]

00:40:04   piece of old tech that is still in use [TS]

00:40:07   not hidden in an attic and I think he's [TS]

00:40:10   really talking to you John due to [TS]

00:40:12   superior qualities or retro joy so for [TS]

00:40:15   example CRT TV old video game consoles [TS]

00:40:18   iPods etc I will start again the obvious [TS]

00:40:22   answer to this is that I have a [TS]

00:40:24   turntable that I still use almost daily [TS]

00:40:26   however I just received that turntable [TS]

00:40:29   as a Christmas present and it was brand [TS]

00:40:30   new at the time so it is it is old [TS]

00:40:33   technology however it is a new device in [TS]

00:40:36   terms of old technology that's still in [TS]

00:40:39   use I I can't think of anything offhand [TS]

00:40:42   I'm sure there's something I'm not [TS]

00:40:43   debating that I have something barbaric [TS]

00:40:45   and old that I still use but darned if I [TS]

00:40:47   can think of what it would be [TS]

00:40:48   so marking one first last time John [TS]

00:40:51   anything old that's outside of your [TS]

00:40:53   attic I was going to say my plasma TV [TS]

00:40:55   but that's not superior quality anymore [TS]

00:40:58   it's not retro joy so I guess that's [TS]

00:41:00   probably just the example of something [TS]

00:41:01   old [TS]

00:41:02   my consoles are probably it I have a [TS]

00:41:04   bunch of old console hooked up journey [TS]

00:41:06   on ps4 helps me not have to use my ps3 [TS]

00:41:08   for that but if want to play ego or [TS]

00:41:10   Shadow of the Colossus I still have to [TS]

00:41:12   use the ps3 so it is still connected to [TS]

00:41:13   my TV there's gonna be a ps4 our port [TS]

00:41:17   I shall of the Colossus leaving only eco [TS]

00:41:19   like my ps3 is hanging on same thing [TS]

00:41:22   with my wii which is basically used to [TS]

00:41:25   play GameCube games most of the time [TS]

00:41:27   almost all my old consoles are still [TS]

00:41:29   hooked up it's kind of gonna be a shame [TS]

00:41:31   when I eventually get a 4k TV because I [TS]

00:41:33   doubt the 4k TV will have component [TS]

00:41:35   video input to which I can connect my [TS]

00:41:37   Gamecube so I have to buy some kind of [TS]

00:41:39   adapter and then I probably go ahead and [TS]

00:41:40   don't even bother right same thing with [TS]

00:41:43   the Wii I have we got component video [TS]

00:41:45   going into my TV I don't have to buy an [TS]

00:41:48   adapter for that as well but for now [TS]

00:41:50   yeah I got a lot of old consoles like [TS]

00:41:52   them you know I should point out that a [TS]

00:41:54   mark Marco is probably going to say the [TS]

00:41:56   same thing I I forgot about which is I [TS]

00:41:58   do have a mechanical watch that is also [TS]

00:42:00   not terribly old but I do like using it [TS]

00:42:03   when I'm dressing up for something [TS]

00:42:04   special [TS]

00:42:05   so now that I've stolen your Thunder [TS]

00:42:06   Marco what about you honestly that was [TS]

00:42:09   that was what I was thinking of as like [TS]

00:42:12   the the best thing I could say here most [TS]

00:42:14   of the things that I use are you know [TS]

00:42:17   like I the things I thought I use that [TS]

00:42:19   are actually like quote old and tech [TS]

00:42:21   terms are not old enough to be [TS]

00:42:22   interesting so like I'll have like you [TS]

00:42:25   know like an old speaker ramp that you [TS]

00:42:28   know for my desk or something but that's [TS]

00:42:29   like you know old a desk an old desktop [TS]

00:42:32   computer speaker ramp being like six [TS]

00:42:34   years old you know or like for a while I [TS]

00:42:36   was using a my first fujitsu scansnap [TS]

00:42:39   scanner which I got about nine years ago [TS]

00:42:43   but I actually replaced that about last [TS]

00:42:45   year because it I was tired of replacing [TS]

00:42:48   the rollers and the new ones were [TS]

00:42:49   superfast and so I just got a new one [TS]

00:42:51   yeah for me I think the best answer here [TS]

00:42:53   is mechanical watches it's it's not a [TS]

00:42:57   very interesting answer and it's not a [TS]

00:42:59   new answer for people who have heard me [TS]

00:43:00   talk ever so that's why I kind of wanted [TS]

00:43:03   I Warnock was been better but I wasn't [TS]

00:43:05   able to I do have mechanical watches [TS]

00:43:08   that are somewhat old my oldest one is [TS]

00:43:11   from 1968 so that's fairly old so I [TS]

00:43:14   guess that counts [TS]

00:43:16   awesome and that's the end of a sketchy [TS]

00:43:18   fee for this week topics Johnny really [TS]

00:43:23   gonna let me get away with this so it's [TS]

00:43:24   so fast it's a really quick one it's a [TS]

00:43:26   really quick one that's not the question [TS]

00:43:28   how many questions that we do I just did [TS]

00:43:30   three because that's how many I could [TS]

00:43:31   put before I ran out of time before the [TS]

00:43:32   show so Chris Johnson thank you Chris [TS]

00:43:35   writes in blah blah destiny - blah blah [TS]

00:43:39   blah try again [TS]

00:43:40   which destiny to class and subclass will [TS]

00:43:43   you start with have a nsobject and let's [TS]

00:43:51   see some beautiful set I like that one [TS]

00:44:00   they dropped the Enna's prefix man yeah [TS]

00:44:03   so I'm going to do I was a warlock main [TS]

00:44:07   in destiny one [TS]

00:44:08   I barely I had to tighten that my son [TS]

00:44:10   played and a hunter that I barely played [TS]

00:44:12   I did level the Titan in hunter up so [TS]

00:44:15   they will be ported over that's [TS]

00:44:17   twenty-two along with my warlock but I'm [TS]

00:44:18   gonna be world like me and destiny too [TS]

00:44:19   and I'm probably gonna start with Don [TS]

00:44:21   blade because it's the new one was any [TS]

00:44:23   of that English because it didn't sound [TS]

00:44:25   like it [TS]

00:44:25   people know sort of asked ATP a rousing [TS]

00:44:30   success thing and I had to rush to get [TS]

00:44:37   the things in there and between trying [TS]

00:44:39   to get my kids and my dog settle down [TS]

00:44:40   British so feel free to I'm pulling from [TS]

00:44:42   that same she'd feel free to pull your [TS]

00:44:45   own questions in there and throw them in [TS]

00:44:47   the little section you know the right [TS]

00:44:48   answer which will never work but the [TS]

00:44:50   rightest answer is for each of us to [TS]

00:44:52   pull our favorite question each week but [TS]

00:44:54   I guarantee Marco will forget and or not [TS]

00:44:57   care and I give myself one chance in [TS]

00:44:59   three eventually remembering pull [TS]

00:45:03   questions and throw them in there but [TS]

00:45:04   you know maybe we wouldn't have the [TS]

00:45:06   section at all if I hadn't remembered it [TS]

00:45:07   so that's true oh where would we be [TS]

00:45:10   without you John [TS]

00:45:11   and speaking of John tell us about this [TS]

00:45:14   kerfuffle with Google and this diversity [TS]

00:45:17   memo which I'm not sure is even the [TS]

00:45:19   right way to describe it yeah the salton [TS]

00:45:22   kind of news by now but we haven't [TS]

00:45:23   recorded in a long time and [TS]

00:45:25   there in the world of politics and [TS]

00:45:30   discrimination there is newer news but [TS]

00:45:32   it is not really tech related but this [TS]

00:45:35   certainly is tech related it's a story [TS]

00:45:37   that everybody probably knows by now the [TS]

00:45:39   Google employee wrote I don't know why [TS]

00:45:42   they call it a memo I guess the old [TS]

00:45:44   parlance wrote a big thing sort of [TS]

00:45:46   talking to Google internally saying [TS]

00:45:49   we're all Googlers here here's what I [TS]

00:45:52   think about what the company is doing [TS]

00:45:53   and here's my opinion on it so on and so [TS]

00:45:55   forth and it caused a big stink we will [TS]

00:45:59   put a link to the document in the show [TS]

00:46:00   notes on the off chance that you haven't [TS]

00:46:02   already read it it's not that long but [TS]

00:46:04   like oh it's ten pages and the grand [TS]

00:46:06   scheme of things it's not that long [TS]

00:46:07   because we don't pay doesn't the web you [TS]

00:46:09   just scroll and also what we'll have in [TS]

00:46:13   the show notes are what I think are some [TS]

00:46:15   of the best responses to the Google [TS]

00:46:19   thing so anyway at the impact of the [TS]

00:46:22   story here being a to summarize in chief [TS]

00:46:24   and Casey doing this the upshot is that [TS]

00:46:30   the person who wrote this was fired [TS]

00:46:32   because it contained I forget what the [TS]

00:46:35   phrasing was but it contains a bunch of [TS]

00:46:38   ideas and opinions that are counter to [TS]

00:46:41   the way Google operates and then people [TS]

00:46:43   are angry that the person got fired and [TS]

00:46:45   people argued on the internet about and [TS]

00:46:47   so on and so forth again this is a well [TS]

00:46:49   covered story and I feel like if you [TS]

00:46:51   don't know we're talking about or don't [TS]

00:46:53   or have only read one or two things [TS]

00:46:54   about just read you know the five links [TS]

00:46:57   that we put in there feel like you will [TS]

00:46:58   have covered the range of what people [TS]

00:47:00   how people react to it but on this show [TS]

00:47:02   what I wanted to talk about you guys can [TS]

00:47:05   feel free to take whatever angle you [TS]

00:47:06   want on this thing is the idea that [TS]

00:47:13   people dismissed the memo that people [TS]

00:47:17   like read it and where we just didn't [TS]

00:47:23   didn't address it at all didn't take it [TS]

00:47:25   seriously they just dismissed it out of [TS]

00:47:27   hand and a lot of people were angry [TS]

00:47:29   about that like why won't you engage [TS]

00:47:32   with this why won't you talk about the [TS]

00:47:34   ideas lots of yelling about like someone [TS]

00:47:37   said something bad about it but you [TS]

00:47:39   didn't even talk about any of the points [TS]

00:47:40   that are in the memo like why are you [TS]

00:47:43   being so dismissive and I understand [TS]

00:47:46   where people are coming from with that [TS]

00:47:47   but I think there is an explanation and [TS]

00:47:49   it's a frustrating explanation but it's [TS]

00:47:51   something you know you encounter again [TS]

00:47:53   and again nothing when I read that memo [TS]

00:47:58   nothing in it was new because I had seen [TS]

00:48:00   every idea put forward to the memo many [TS]

00:48:03   many times before because there weren't [TS]

00:48:05   a lot of new I don't want any new ideas [TS]

00:48:07   in there everything in there is [TS]

00:48:09   something that someone else has said in [TS]

00:48:10   the very similar form many many many [TS]

00:48:13   many many times in the past and if you [TS]

00:48:17   enter any field whatever it is whether [TS]

00:48:20   it's woodworking programming diversity [TS]

00:48:24   whatever it is and you lay out all your [TS]

00:48:29   opinions but you are not an expert in [TS]

00:48:31   the field chance especially if you say [TS]

00:48:34   something controversial or you're [TS]

00:48:35   addressing some point that is a point of [TS]

00:48:37   contention chances are very good that [TS]

00:48:39   the people who have been arguing about [TS]

00:48:41   the same topic and who have studied this [TS]

00:48:43   topic and you know we're just like our [TS]

00:48:45   well versed in this topic chances are [TS]

00:48:47   very good that they've heard everything [TS]

00:48:49   you're going to say before and they've [TS]

00:48:51   argued about it amongst themselves for [TS]

00:48:53   years and years and years and so when [TS]

00:48:56   you come out with this thing and they [TS]

00:48:58   roll their eyes and dismiss you it's [TS]

00:49:01   because to them it's like the nine [TS]

00:49:04   hundred times someone is saying exact [TS]

00:49:05   same things and they've already been [TS]

00:49:08   discussed but from the outside it's like [TS]

00:49:09   how why are you not addressing my points [TS]

00:49:11   I feel like I have important things to [TS]

00:49:13   say here and how can like it's how can [TS]

00:49:16   you just dismiss me it's not a valid [TS]

00:49:18   argument obviously I'm you know maybe [TS]

00:49:19   I'm writing you're just afraid to [TS]

00:49:21   address my block this is gonna happen no [TS]

00:49:24   matter what the topic is [TS]

00:49:26   and I mean and well in some ways you [TS]

00:49:29   have to recognize like where you are on [TS]

00:49:32   the in the range of knowledge about this [TS]

00:49:35   topic am I do I have a PhD in this topic [TS]

00:49:37   have I studied this topic for 50 years [TS]

00:49:39   and a well-versed in all the literature [TS]

00:49:40   and like or am I just somebody who [TS]

00:49:42   thought about this for the past year or [TS]

00:49:44   two and has some ideas like you're never [TS]

00:49:47   you know and maybe he said they [TS]

00:49:49   shouldn't dismiss me and what they [TS]

00:49:50   should do is if someone is [TS]

00:49:52   novice and says something that has been [TS]

00:49:53   said before then please tell me point by [TS]

00:49:56   laborious point bring me up to speed on [TS]

00:49:59   the state of the art in this area of [TS]

00:50:01   study that's not a reasonable request [TS]

00:50:04   because then it's like everybody who [TS]

00:50:05   stumbles into a math forum and says I [TS]

00:50:07   just think I've you know what about this [TS]

00:50:09   and have you guys ever thought of that [TS]

00:50:11   they gotta teach you all the math you [TS]

00:50:12   need to know to get but the point you [TS]

00:50:14   realize the thing that you're saying has [TS]

00:50:15   been discussed many times before and [TS]

00:50:16   like either proven or disproven or [TS]

00:50:18   you're the different you know like it's [TS]

00:50:20   that's not a valid position I know a [TS]

00:50:23   little bit about something and I have an [TS]

00:50:24   opinion and here's this thing and [TS]

00:50:26   they're like oh well we've seen people [TS]

00:50:28   say that thing a million times we've [TS]

00:50:31   already discussed it amongst ourselves [TS]

00:50:32   and we already know what everyone else [TS]

00:50:34   in the field thinks about this we don't [TS]

00:50:35   have time to bring you up to speed on [TS]

00:50:37   the this entire field of study and that [TS]

00:50:39   feels like you're being dismissed and so [TS]

00:50:41   I understand why people are angry the [TS]

00:50:43   guy who wrote it's angry about being [TS]

00:50:44   dismissed people who sympathize with [TS]

00:50:47   what is in the thing are angry that that [TS]

00:50:49   this thing is dismissed they feel like [TS]

00:50:51   you know you know whatever it's being [TS]

00:50:53   silenced no one's taking him seriously [TS]

00:50:54   or whatever now first of all that's like [TS]

00:50:57   that's an initial reaction but second [TS]

00:50:58   all these links in the show notes sure [TS]

00:51:00   that's not true that some some poor [TS]

00:51:02   people went there and just went point by [TS]

00:51:06   laborious point and tried mightily to [TS]

00:51:09   explain and these aren't even experts in [TS]

00:51:11   the field for the most part these are [TS]

00:51:12   just people who didn't happen to know a [TS]

00:51:13   little bit more or have a little bit of [TS]

00:51:16   clearer you know train of thinking about [TS]

00:51:18   this or really just even if they have no [TS]

00:51:20   expertise in the field but have been [TS]

00:51:23   around the block a few times and ever [TS]

00:51:24   argued on the internet a few times thing [TS]

00:51:25   and say listen I don't even know [TS]

00:51:27   anything about this subject but I can [TS]

00:51:28   tell you memo writer that you have no [TS]

00:51:30   idea what you're doing [TS]

00:51:31   like you know that even without knowing [TS]

00:51:35   anything about this topic I can see that [TS]

00:51:37   your points don't connect and you're [TS]

00:51:38   doing a bad job arguing this and again [TS]

00:51:41   if you if you argued on Usenet in the [TS]

00:51:42   90s if you argued in person in you know [TS]

00:51:45   college campuses in the 80s and 70s and [TS]

00:51:47   60s like you know the person who wrote [TS]

00:51:50   this memo you know they're thinking you [TS]

00:51:52   know what they're saying you you [TS]

00:51:54   recognize their their enthusiasm and [TS]

00:51:59   fervor and like just this is the thing [TS]

00:52:02   about getting old like everything slows [TS]

00:52:04   down and you [TS]

00:52:05   goes bad and your eyes get worse and [TS]

00:52:07   just all sorts of bad things happen but [TS]

00:52:09   there's something to that wisdom thing [TS]

00:52:11   hey I mean that wisdom maybe it's just [TS]

00:52:12   experience like that's why and all sorts [TS]

00:52:15   of sci-fi things when there's a really [TS]

00:52:16   old creature like they're always just [TS]

00:52:17   like a like you've seen it all right and [TS]

00:52:21   I know that's like the worst thing it's [TS]

00:52:23   like you know that itself is a logical [TS]

00:52:25   fallacy like a you know appeal to [TS]

00:52:28   Authority or you should trust me because [TS]

00:52:29   I know a lot about this topic but but [TS]

00:52:30   it's not what it is it's more like just [TS]

00:52:31   exhaustion like if pressed if the fate [TS]

00:52:35   of the universe depended on it [TS]

00:52:37   experts in the field could take this [TS]

00:52:39   person into a room and over the course [TS]

00:52:40   of the next 20 years educate them to the [TS]

00:52:42   point where they understand what is [TS]

00:52:44   wrong with this memo right and I feel [TS]

00:52:46   like that should be the goal of a lot of [TS]

00:52:48   you know if you trust that this is the [TS]

00:52:50   case and I'm not just like blowing smoke [TS]

00:52:51   but that the goal should be like if you [TS]

00:52:55   if you read this memo and you think that [TS]

00:52:59   there are some good solid points in [TS]

00:53:01   there your goal should be to learn more [TS]

00:53:05   about it heal until you get on the same [TS]

00:53:07   page with everyone else who sees this [TS]

00:53:10   for what it is or learn so much about it [TS]

00:53:13   that you actually reveal the real truth [TS]

00:53:15   of it that nobody knows right but I can [TS]

00:53:17   tell you this memo is not the real truth [TS]

00:53:19   but the nobody knows because this memo [TS]

00:53:20   are the same tired ideas that have been [TS]

00:53:22   discussed again and again and again by [TS]

00:53:24   people in every single field related to [TS]

00:53:26   this all right [TS]

00:53:27   and that like again this this is the [TS]

00:53:31   meta point and people like they don't [TS]

00:53:33   want to hear it and there's no way to [TS]

00:53:34   convince them of it or not I'm not [TS]

00:53:35   really here to convince people that this [TS]

00:53:37   is the case but like that's why people [TS]

00:53:39   get angry about that's why it feels [TS]

00:53:41   frustrating and I want I'm trying to [TS]

00:53:43   stay working the topic itself because I [TS]

00:53:45   want people to understand this is gonna [TS]

00:53:46   be true when you come in and tell people [TS]

00:53:47   about a particular kind of glue putting [TS]

00:53:50   together [TS]

00:53:50   remote control boats and the remote [TS]

00:53:52   control bolt builders have discussions [TS]

00:53:55   about this kind of glue 50 years ago and [TS]

00:53:57   they just roll their eyes and be like [TS]

00:53:59   look I know it seems like that kind of [TS]

00:54:00   glue is the kind of glue you want to use [TS]

00:54:02   I know you have a lot of information [TS]

00:54:03   that you think supports your idea that [TS]

00:54:05   kind of loses the trust me we've been [TS]

00:54:07   debating this glue for 50 years and 25 [TS]

00:54:09   years ago we all came to this conclusion [TS]

00:54:11   and we revisit this topic room time [TS]

00:54:13   decided to see if things have changed [TS]

00:54:14   but they haven't and you're wrong and we [TS]

00:54:16   don't have time to explain to you [TS]

00:54:17   laborious and [TS]

00:54:18   again glue for model boats is much [TS]

00:54:21   simpler than this topic right so that's [TS]

00:54:24   that's my reaction as a tired old person [TS]

00:54:25   who is beaten down by even worse things [TS]

00:54:28   happening and in the world right that I [TS]

00:54:30   see this I see the young person who is [TS]

00:54:33   writing it I know where that person is [TS]

00:54:35   coming from I know that person it and [TS]

00:54:38   I've seen you know these exact arguments [TS]

00:54:41   on these exact specific topics and it is [TS]

00:54:43   depressing to have to have this argument [TS]

00:54:46   again it's depressing this these tired [TS]

00:54:48   ideas get any kind of traction and yet [TS]

00:54:51   people go out of their way to do the [TS]

00:54:54   hard work to explain to this person and [TS]

00:54:57   to anybody who reads this something I [TS]

00:54:58   like to explain to the world like you [TS]

00:55:00   know isn't that your job to educate me [TS]

00:55:03   about but not really but we're gonna do [TS]

00:55:05   it anyway because we know it's you know [TS]

00:55:07   it's it's what we have to do something [TS]

00:55:09   we can't just let us stand as it is so [TS]

00:55:10   many many people did you know tried to [TS]

00:55:13   explain what's wrong with this and I'm [TS]

00:55:15   not going to try to explain it here [TS]

00:55:16   because I feel like the problem is topic [TS]

00:55:18   a lot of times on the show is any kind [TS]

00:55:20   of pockets like this is I think what I [TS]

00:55:21   described in the hypercritical days as [TS]

00:55:23   having a slow-motion argument with the [TS]

00:55:25   internet one-sided slow-motion argument [TS]

00:55:26   where you'll say a bunch of stuff but [TS]

00:55:28   there's no one on the show who'd [TS]

00:55:29   actually is there disagree with you so [TS]

00:55:31   you can actually have a debate so you [TS]

00:55:32   have to debate the hypothetical person [TS]

00:55:34   who's out there and then you put the [TS]

00:55:36   podcast out into the world man you wait [TS]

00:55:38   a week and a bunch of people reply and [TS]

00:55:39   say that's not what I think at all [TS]

00:55:41   actually I think X Y Z and then you [TS]

00:55:43   debate those people's feedback but then [TS]

00:55:45   you but then what about people who don't [TS]

00:55:47   care about a topic anymore it's just [TS]

00:55:48   it's impossible to have a slow-motion [TS]

00:55:50   debate with it with a hypothetical [TS]

00:55:51   person so that's why I'm trying to take [TS]

00:55:53   this meta and also because like I said I [TS]

00:55:55   think there's some really good articles [TS]

00:55:56   about this and to be clear this this [TS]

00:55:59   manifesto is totally bogus [TS]

00:56:01   the the ideas and by the unit are not [TS]

00:56:05   the right ideas they are just you know [TS]

00:56:08   it's explicable by all of the the sort [TS]

00:56:14   of they're speckled by the experiences [TS]

00:56:17   and the biases that the person who wrote [TS]

00:56:18   it is bound to have had and so I think [TS]

00:56:21   this is a learning opportunity for [TS]

00:56:22   everybody involved why did he get fired [TS]

00:56:24   do you think you should have been fired [TS]

00:56:25   that's the that's the controversial [TS]

00:56:26   thing yeah I don't see how you can't [TS]

00:56:29   fire him because how can you have an [TS]

00:56:30   employee in your company [TS]

00:56:31   thinks women on average are genetically [TS]

00:56:34   less capable than men to do the job like [TS]

00:56:36   how can you have that person doing [TS]

00:56:37   performance reviews or leading a team of [TS]

00:56:39   people like how can you have that like [TS]

00:56:41   if that's in people's secret heart so [TS]

00:56:43   you don't know about it fine but if [TS]

00:56:44   someone comes out and says this is what [TS]

00:56:46   I believe you can't have that person [TS]

00:56:47   doing performance you can just have a [TS]

00:56:49   segregated company and then segregate by [TS]

00:56:50   everybody's biases right and never mind [TS]

00:56:52   that you know these are all at-will [TS]

00:56:54   employees they can be fired pretty much [TS]

00:56:55   every reason any reason and you know [TS]

00:56:58   misogyny is not a protected class like [TS]

00:57:00   it's an idea like yeah like this is [TS]

00:57:05   guess what if you you uh call your boss [TS]

00:57:08   a jerk every day and give him the finger [TS]

00:57:11   you're also gonna get fired because [TS]

00:57:12   people who call the her boss a jerk and [TS]

00:57:14   give them the finger are not a protected [TS]

00:57:16   class like there are so many things you [TS]

00:57:18   can get fired do to get fired this of [TS]

00:57:20   all the things at least is like pretty [TS]

00:57:22   high-minded in terms of things you're [TS]

00:57:23   getting fired for believe me you can get [TS]

00:57:25   fired for way stupider stuff because [TS]

00:57:27   that's the way employment works and so [TS]

00:57:29   but yeah like this yeah you have to [TS]

00:57:31   fight in fact it's it probably should [TS]

00:57:34   have been fired faster but I'm sure you [TS]

00:57:35   got to go through all the legal things [TS]

00:57:36   for whatever so anyway I think I'm I'm [TS]

00:57:41   starting to get into the realm of we're [TS]

00:57:43   gonna start having a slow-motion [TS]

00:57:44   argument but the internet I don't want [TS]

00:57:45   to do that what do you two have to say [TS]

00:57:48   about this I have very little to add [TS]

00:57:50   because you just did a really good job [TS]

00:57:52   of covering it and I also don't want to [TS]

00:57:53   go into the slow-motion argument with [TS]

00:57:55   the internet the common people's grasp [TS]

00:57:59   on what free speech protects them from [TS]

00:58:01   is about as good as their grasp on fair [TS]

00:58:06   use and copyright which is not that good [TS]

00:58:08   no copy intended no copyright intended [TS]

00:58:10   Marco so yeah I would before making an [TS]

00:58:16   argument about free speech [TS]

00:58:17   I learned investigate with some basic [TS]

00:58:20   research what free speech actually gets [TS]

00:58:23   you and what is actually an assurance of [TS]

00:58:25   what it actually means and what it [TS]

00:58:27   doesn't mean and yeah John I think coda [TS]

00:58:29   very well I I I have to admit I did not [TS]

00:58:33   fully read James's memo or whatever it [TS]

00:58:37   was manifesto whatever it was you know [TS]

00:58:39   life is short and I could tell pretty [TS]

00:58:41   pretty soon into it this was not going [TS]

00:58:43   to be worth the [TS]

00:58:44   I'm been reading it so I didn't I [TS]

00:58:46   decided to do anything else with my time [TS]

00:58:48   just had to read this honestly [TS]

00:58:51   rearend openings memo on what he thinks [TS]

00:58:55   about people so I decided not to yeah [TS]

00:58:58   same here he provided a summary at the [TS]

00:59:00   top have Elly called it a tldr because [TS]

00:59:03   he's in Milano [TS]

00:59:04   but yeah the summon summer yet was hot [TS]

00:59:05   like you don't have to read the temp [TS]

00:59:06   ages reading the five six point summary [TS]

00:59:08   or whatever it's a it is a fit mean he [TS]

00:59:10   wrote the summary himself it is a fair [TS]

00:59:12   encapsulation of the points made and the [TS]

00:59:14   things you could look at only the [TS]

00:59:15   summary and see [TS]

00:59:17   yep no I've seen this idiot before yep I [TS]

00:59:19   understand where he's coming from yeah [TS]

00:59:21   no III I got a bet that far then I was [TS]

00:59:23   like yeah this is and then once I [TS]

00:59:25   thought that was the memo and then once [TS]

00:59:27   I saw that was simply the summarize like [TS]

00:59:29   oh my god close tab I would also say [TS]

00:59:34   that I think it's worth it's worth [TS]

00:59:37   Google doing some introspection here [TS]

00:59:40   about their own culture and and about [TS]

00:59:42   what is it about Google's culture that [TS]

00:59:45   would hire somebody who holds these [TS]

00:59:48   ideas that would foster someone's [TS]

00:59:51   intellectual development who would hold [TS]

00:59:52   his ideas and that would that would make [TS]

00:59:54   somebody think that it would be a good [TS]

00:59:56   idea and would not get them fired too [TS]

00:59:56   idea and would not get them fired too [TS]

01:00:00   actually write this and circulate this [TS]

01:00:01   within the company like that reveals I [TS]

01:00:03   think cultural problems in that company [TS]

01:00:06   which should be a surprise to nobody but [TS]

01:00:08   some good aspects of culture to because [TS]

01:00:11   that the fact that he felt like he could [TS]

01:00:12   say this shows that they have a culture [TS]

01:00:15   where people feel like they can express [TS]

01:00:17   themselves now again like a culture [TS]

01:00:20   where you can express yourselves doesn't [TS]

01:00:22   mean you could say you know what I think [TS]

01:00:24   we should eat babies and be surprised [TS]

01:00:26   about people like gasp right here let's [TS]

01:00:28   give them back to the baby eating right [TS]

01:00:29   it's good to have an open culture but [TS]

01:00:32   you also have to be aware of you know [TS]

01:00:35   what people might think of what you say [TS]

01:00:37   right and a lot of companies people [TS]

01:00:42   would be afraid to say anything remotely [TS]

01:00:44   about controversial but like at any HR [TS]

01:00:47   policy like you know the HR policy is [TS]

01:00:48   like for example imagine apple gonna the [TS]

01:00:50   Apple Park thing like oh people aren't [TS]

01:00:51   gonna have as many offices right if [TS]

01:00:53   Apple had a culture where everybody was [TS]

01:00:55   terrified to make any kind of complaint [TS]

01:00:57   about her I kind of wish we still had [TS]

01:00:59   offices I don't want to be an open [TS]

01:01:00   office space right that would be a bad [TS]

01:01:02   company culture you want to have a [TS]

01:01:04   company culture where if people are [TS]

01:01:05   super pissed about not having an office [TS]

01:01:06   they feel like they can say hey I don't [TS]

01:01:09   want to lose my office Apple I don't [TS]

01:01:11   like the new Apple Park and complain [TS]

01:01:13   right cuz that and just being a general [TS]

01:01:16   adult in the world you could understand [TS]

01:01:17   if you do it in a constructive way this [TS]

01:01:20   is a a reasonable avenue of feedback [TS]

01:01:22   within the company and a good company [TS]

01:01:24   culture encourages people to do that [TS]

01:01:26   because you don't want them to be [TS]

01:01:27   secretly hating you and then quitting [TS]

01:01:28   like you want you want to hear what the [TS]

01:01:30   employees have to say but if their [TS]

01:01:31   complaint is I don't want to work next [TS]

01:01:33   to a woman you should at least be aware [TS]

01:01:36   enough to know if you say that they're [TS]

01:01:38   gonna get rid of you because you can't [TS]

01:01:40   have an employee like that it's like how [TS]

01:01:42   is that any different from offices if [TS]

01:01:44   you can't see the difference like start [TS]

01:01:46   their finger what's different about [TS]

01:01:48   saying I prefer offices to cubicles [TS]

01:01:50   versus I can't be next to a woman when I [TS]

01:01:52   work like figure it out like work on it [TS]

01:01:54   like I feel you know those are my first [TS]

01:01:56   and only comments about this which was [TS]

01:01:59   snarky granted but you know I'm allowed [TS]

01:02:00   some snark on Twitter was like the the [TS]

01:02:03   irony of someone at Google writing this [TS]

01:02:06   memo who so clearly has not even done [TS]

01:02:09   the most cursory google search on the [TS]

01:02:10   topic [TS]

01:02:12   look at all these things he's citing we [TS]

01:02:13   were like no I mean actually you know [TS]

01:02:15   actually learning about the topic his [TS]

01:02:17   Google's right there you can Google [TS]

01:02:19   yourself every one of these points and [TS]

01:02:22   find you know everything about them and [TS]

01:02:25   why they're BS like everywhere instead [TS]

01:02:27   the only thing he googled for was you [TS]

01:02:29   know cherry picked things that he thinks [TS]

01:02:31   supports his ideas and that he can [TS]

01:02:33   string together into this completely [TS]

01:02:35   broken chain of logic in the other [TS]

01:02:37   anyway I don't know you can read the [TS]

01:02:38   links to I realize that but like but [TS]

01:02:40   it's right there like no time it hasn't [TS]

01:02:42   been easier for you to educate yourself [TS]

01:02:43   about this topic without having to be [TS]

01:02:45   led by the nose by people more versed in [TS]

01:02:48   the field like everything's right there [TS]

01:02:49   the person works for Google and just you [TS]

01:02:52   know that that just blew my mind that [TS]

01:02:54   you know sort of the the in curiosity [TS]

01:02:56   and the being content and you know as [TS]

01:02:59   the economists response the links we'll [TS]

01:03:01   put in there that the motivated [TS]

01:03:02   reasoning like that no amount of access [TS]

01:03:04   to the world's information can avoid [TS]

01:03:06   that yeah the thing that struck me about [TS]

01:03:08   this was the little bit of feedback we [TS]

01:03:11   got about it which was a couple of [TS]

01:03:14   people saying please don't talk about [TS]

01:03:17   this but here's some anonymous feedback [TS]

01:03:19   about why I think this guy was on the [TS]

01:03:21   money this was amazing to me this was [TS]

01:03:24   like we actually got beautiful pieces of [TS]

01:03:26   feedback about from people who were [TS]

01:03:29   basically yelling at us in support of [TS]

01:03:31   this James whole before we ever talked [TS]

01:03:34   about it right right it just happened [TS]

01:03:35   and they knew in the future there would [TS]

01:03:37   be an episode of ATP recorded and people [TS]

01:03:38   said I know you're gonna want to talk [TS]

01:03:40   about this but don't well we did sorry [TS]

01:03:43   there's you don't talk about this but [TS]

01:03:46   here's what I think and and you know if [TS]

01:03:50   anyone thinks otherwise that's just that [TS]

01:03:51   that's them silencing us yadda yadda [TS]

01:03:53   yadda blah blah blah it was it was more [TS]

01:03:56   than what the thing was if it was just [TS]

01:03:57   one individual okay fine but this [TS]

01:04:02   happened two or three times and it was [TS]

01:04:04   the same thing both times please guys [TS]

01:04:07   don't talk about this but if you do you [TS]

01:04:10   should consider the following my example [TS]

01:04:14   of like the difference between I like [TS]

01:04:16   office instead of cubes versus I can't [TS]

01:04:18   work next to a woman neither one of [TS]

01:04:20   those things in the memo I'm giving [TS]

01:04:21   hypothetical examples to understand [TS]

01:04:23   different classes of things that you [TS]

01:04:24   might want feedback yeah but [TS]

01:04:26   actually getting back to Marco's point [TS]

01:04:27   like I think I think the fact this [TS]

01:04:29   person felt free to say this is a good [TS]

01:04:31   reflection on Google's culture of [TS]

01:04:33   letting people feel like they are free [TS]

01:04:35   to give feedback the fact that this [TS]

01:04:37   particular you know that are the to have [TS]

01:04:40   open discussions the content of this [TS]

01:04:42   shows it doesn't reflect poorly on [TS]

01:04:44   Google other than their hiring practices [TS]

01:04:46   or not being aware that this is this is [TS]

01:04:48   happening and and you know like this is [TS]

01:04:50   on the person who wrote the thing not so [TS]

01:04:51   much in Google if you want to place [TS]

01:04:53   blame on it's not the culture that let [TS]

01:04:55   him post the memo because that is more [TS]

01:04:57   of just sort of like lack of [TS]

01:04:59   self-awareness you know not [TS]

01:05:00   understanding that other people exist in [TS]

01:05:03   the world and how they might react to [TS]

01:05:05   what you had to say right but this is [TS]

01:05:09   true of a lot of tech companies that you [TS]

01:05:10   know the if the interview is all coding [TS]

01:05:13   on a whiteboard and you know solving [TS]

01:05:17   brain teasers and making sure you had a [TS]

01:05:19   good education and making sure you are [TS]

01:05:21   recently personable and polite and then [TS]

01:05:23   most critically making sure that the [TS]

01:05:25   people who you interview with say oh [TS]

01:05:27   yeah I could work with this person yeah [TS]

01:05:29   seems like a person because you'll [TS]

01:05:31   people will say oh I could work in this [TS]

01:05:33   person he's just like me yeah I'm I am a [TS]

01:05:37   dude who was a CS major who likes video [TS]

01:05:39   games and blah blah yeah not like if [TS]

01:05:42   that's all there is in your interview is [TS]

01:05:43   technical stuff and and brain teasers [TS]

01:05:46   and education and work history and do [TS]

01:05:49   you feel like you could work with this [TS]

01:05:50   person it's very easy to get into you [TS]

01:05:52   know - speaking of an echo chamber which [TS]

01:05:54   in all other complaints this thing is [TS]

01:05:55   very easy to get into a situation where [TS]

01:05:56   people hire other people that they're [TS]

01:05:58   comfortable with and so you may never [TS]

01:06:00   dig deeper to say oh and by the way [TS]

01:06:02   again this is not in the memo this is my [TS]

01:06:04   silly example that's supposed to make [TS]

01:06:05   you you know realize anyway if you have [TS]

01:06:09   any problem working on a team with a [TS]

01:06:10   woman [TS]

01:06:11   maybe you can't ask that legally I don't [TS]

01:06:13   even know like there's all sorts of [TS]

01:06:14   weird things about hiring what you can [TS]

01:06:16   and can't ask but figuring that out like [TS]

01:06:19   if the person says oh I would never work [TS]

01:06:21   on a team with the woman don't hire that [TS]

01:06:24   person right don't hire that person and [TS]

01:06:27   if you never figure out that that's an [TS]

01:06:29   again that's not that's not what this [TS]

01:06:31   person said I'm trying to give it a [TS]

01:06:32   extreme example I know people get [TS]

01:06:33   confused by that like it's a [TS]

01:06:34   hypothetical extreme example right if [TS]

01:06:37   you're not sort and figuring that out if [TS]

01:06:39   you [TS]

01:06:39   have an interview process that weeds [TS]

01:06:40   that out you'll never have a chance of [TS]

01:06:43   waking up to much more subtle things [TS]

01:06:44   which is like maybe this person has some [TS]

01:06:47   slightly less well examined ideas about [TS]

01:06:51   gender and diversity and like I don't [TS]

01:06:54   think this person is super terrible I [TS]

01:06:55   heard they were vaguely involved in [TS]

01:06:57   gamergate but who knows I'm the headman [TS]

01:06:58   following this but anyway I think the [TS]

01:07:01   ideas in this memo or ideas that a lot [TS]

01:07:03   of smart white dudes basically who have [TS]

01:07:09   never faced any sort of oppression based [TS]

01:07:12   on their gender or a race end up having [TS]

01:07:17   not because they're bad people or [TS]

01:07:18   they're evil or whatever but it's like [TS]

01:07:20   again there's a reason all these ideas [TS]

01:07:22   have come up before it is not it's not a [TS]

01:07:25   logical conclusion but it's like you [TS]

01:07:26   find yourself going down these alleys [TS]

01:07:28   you find yourself having these thoughts [TS]

01:07:29   you find yourself coming to these [TS]

01:07:30   conclusions and especially if you have a [TS]

01:07:32   slightly rebellious bent there is [TS]

01:07:36   something for you to rebel against which [TS]

01:07:38   is all these this diversity ideas and [TS]

01:07:40   like just there's a reason it's common I [TS]

01:07:43   don't I don't think these people this [TS]

01:07:45   person is you know an aberration or a [TS]

01:07:47   terrible person it's just they're they [TS]

01:07:50   have they have some things to learn they [TS]

01:07:52   have some living to do they have some [TS]

01:07:54   experience to gain and it you are able [TS]

01:07:56   to get that experience and live that [TS]

01:07:58   life and learn and change because most [TS]

01:08:00   people who are on the other side of this [TS]

01:08:03   started out somewhere more like this [TS]

01:08:05   memo writer and changed and learn things [TS]

01:08:08   like that they're not born like oh I'm a [TS]

01:08:10   perfect angel from the beginning and I [TS]

01:08:11   know everything and I don't have any [TS]

01:08:12   prejudices and biases no especially if [TS]

01:08:14   they're they are simply have similar [TS]

01:08:15   backgrounds to this person [TS]

01:08:17   they had to walk that same road and [TS]

01:08:19   figure things out and stick their foot [TS]

01:08:21   in the mouth and do stupid stuff and [TS]

01:08:23   learn things the hard way right no we're [TS]

01:08:26   not super enlightened wonderful we know [TS]

01:08:27   everything in the beginning like my hope [TS]

01:08:29   for this person is that he grows and [TS]

01:08:33   evolves and you know comes you know the [TS]

01:08:38   people mean to say that he grows up but [TS]

01:08:40   like it's part it's not he's an organ [TS]

01:08:41   adult but you know just you don't stop [TS]

01:08:43   growing up when you become quote/unquote [TS]

01:08:45   an adult you you keep growing up [TS]

01:08:47   throughout your whole life hopefully and [TS]

01:08:48   that's that's my hope for this person [TS]

01:08:52   we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

01:08:54   who prints your photos in vivid color on [TS]

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01:09:03   from here fracture is a photo decor [TS]

01:09:05   company they want to rescue your [TS]

01:09:07   favorite images from the digital ether [TS]

01:09:09   of these Facebook and Instagram and [TS]

01:09:11   other social feeds where you put your [TS]

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01:09:14   gone after like a day you never see them [TS]

01:09:16   again get those photos printed and hang [TS]

01:09:18   them in your house or put them in your [TS]

01:09:20   office or give them as gifts they make [TS]

01:09:22   amazing gifts they had these awesome [TS]

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01:09:26   the glass and they have a laser-cut [TS]

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01:09:30   display right out of the box they even [TS]

01:09:31   include the wall anchor all you to do is [TS]

01:09:34   upload your photo and pick your size it [TS]

01:09:37   is that simple and the fracture printing [TS]

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01:09:45   there's no frame needed you know you'd [TS]

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01:10:12   and we have fractures all over our house [TS]

01:10:14   in fact right now we're on vacation I [TS]

01:10:16   kind of miss the fractures and think we [TS]

01:10:17   should order a few more for here that [TS]

01:10:18   this place could really use it I think [TS]

01:10:20   that's what we're gonna do after after [TS]

01:10:21   this week podcast I'm gonna go order [TS]

01:10:23   some fractures because we need some [TS]

01:10:25   stuff on the walls here that's that's [TS]

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01:10:28   visible in your home it's really [TS]

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01:10:39   heard from tell them ATP because we're [TS]

01:10:41   the best let's be honest here it helps [TS]

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01:10:44   came from here so fracture me.com slash [TS]

01:10:46   podcast don't forget to pick ATP in the [TS]

01:10:49   survey there and once again thank you [TS]

01:10:51   very much to fracture for sponsoring our [TS]

01:10:53   show [TS]

01:10:53   [Music] [TS]

01:10:57   Apple apparently has said their [TS]

01:10:59   budgeting a billion dollars that's B 1 [TS]

01:11:02   billion for original TV shows and movies [TS]

01:11:05   because apparently that's the thing we [TS]

01:11:08   need so I'm not sure what to make of [TS]

01:11:11   this like in and of itself I have no [TS]

01:11:13   issues with Apple trying to get into the [TS]

01:11:15   content busy business excuse me but it's [TS]

01:11:22   so far they have not shown us that [TS]

01:11:24   they're terribly good at doing these [TS]

01:11:25   sort of things so I don't know Marco [TS]

01:11:29   what do you think about this so with the [TS]

01:11:33   actual budget and like how it compares [TS]

01:11:35   to other services and everything people [TS]

01:11:38   have commentary on whether this is [TS]

01:11:39   enough money whether it's a lot whether [TS]

01:11:41   it's a little I don't know I don't know [TS]

01:11:43   enough about the business of TV and [TS]

01:11:45   movie production to even know what this [TS]

01:11:46   buys you all I do know is that so far [TS]

01:11:49   apple's original content for video which [TS]

01:11:52   for some reason appears on Apple music [TS]

01:11:54   is bizarre at best and mostly pretty bad [TS]

01:11:59   whatever has caused them to produce what [TS]

01:12:02   they've produced so far I think is the [TS]

01:12:04   same thing that caused them to do the [TS]

01:12:06   whole like you know u2 finger-touch [TS]

01:12:08   thing and then shoving songs of [TS]

01:12:09   innocence into everyone's libraries and [TS]

01:12:11   you know it's like they seem to have [TS]

01:12:14   this like most of what they make pretty [TS]

01:12:18   cool and is pretty well considered and [TS]

01:12:20   then there's like the certain like blind [TS]

01:12:22   spot that they get around certain types [TS]

01:12:25   of content or celebrity things which [TS]

01:12:28   which everything they make seems to be [TS]

01:12:29   profoundly uncool and just fall on its [TS]

01:12:31   face a lot of the various like you know [TS]

01:12:34   celebrity tie-ins they've done much of [TS]

01:12:36   the efforts they've tried to do around [TS]

01:12:38   Apple music sometimes like the weird [TS]

01:12:41   intro videos to the conference's stuff [TS]

01:12:42   like that like a lot of the stuff just [TS]

01:12:45   just seems profoundly uncool and just [TS]

01:12:47   flops certainly I think Planet of the [TS]

01:12:49   apps' qualifies big-time for that list [TS]

01:12:52   and I suspect the carpool karaoke [TS]

01:12:55   version they're doing I haven't seen it [TS]

01:12:57   the early impressions of it are [TS]

01:12:59   similarly not very positive [TS]

01:13:01   so I whatever is is causing these things [TS]

01:13:05   to be greenlit and to then be terrible [TS]

01:13:08   I hope they figure [TS]

01:13:10   out and fix that for Apple to become a [TS]

01:13:13   company that represents bad content I [TS]

01:13:16   think that hurts the whole brand so it's [TS]

01:13:18   a big risk they're taking here and so [TS]

01:13:20   far it seems like it's not paying off at [TS]

01:13:22   all so far it seems like it's actually [TS]

01:13:24   harming them if they do it right it [TS]

01:13:27   could be great they could be you know [TS]

01:13:29   they could produce things as good as [TS]

01:13:30   what Netflix and Amazon on HBO are [TS]

01:13:32   making like they could make great [TS]

01:13:34   original content but they've made such a [TS]

01:13:36   bad original content so far that it's [TS]

01:13:38   it's just kind of hard to see how they [TS]

01:13:40   get from here to there I think the last [TS]

01:13:42   time we talked about this I made the [TS]

01:13:44   same point because I found it occurring [TS]

01:13:46   to me again I'm like oh I think I talked [TS]

01:13:47   about that right but like if you if you [TS]

01:13:49   fund content you shouldn't like other [TS]

01:13:54   than some vague sort of overarching [TS]

01:13:57   theme like Disney in general makes kind [TS]

01:14:00   of family-friendly stuff you shouldn't [TS]

01:14:03   be influencing the things that you make [TS]

01:14:05   so everything that Apple makes doesn't [TS]

01:14:07   have to be an appellate thing obviously [TS]

01:14:08   planet of the apps is super Apple II [TS]

01:14:10   carpool karaoke not really aptly so [TS]

01:14:13   that's that's an okay one but you know [TS]

01:14:15   HBO makes all sorts of shows make [TS]

01:14:17   Western sci-fi fantasy drama like just [TS]

01:14:20   comedies stand-up comedy specials [TS]

01:14:22   documentaries like you know insofar as [TS]

01:14:26   there is an HBO brand the brand is good [TS]

01:14:29   television for adults right Disney is [TS]

01:14:32   like family-friendly stuff Marvel is you [TS]

01:14:35   know it's got the superhero movies like [TS]

01:14:37   start the Star Wars like just like there [TS]

01:14:39   there are overarching brands for things [TS]

01:14:40   but in general you don't want Apple to [TS]

01:14:43   make like Apple stuff and that that is [TS]

01:14:47   something they have to get out from [TS]

01:14:48   under because almost everything Apple [TS]

01:14:49   does is an Apple thing and if you're [TS]

01:14:51   making content you have to basically [TS]

01:14:54   just be the money people here's the big [TS]

01:14:56   bucket of money then get a bunch of [TS]

01:14:58   people who know how to find talent and [TS]

01:15:02   you know develop the shows and that's [TS]

01:15:03   what they're doing they hired a bunch of [TS]

01:15:04   people who had previously done this same [TS]

01:15:07   job for for other people like that hard [TS]

01:15:09   the guy from Sony television or [TS]

01:15:11   something is but had a bunch of things [TS]

01:15:12   under his belt and they hurt somebody [TS]

01:15:14   else like it's it's a different kind of [TS]

01:15:17   business and it's not an easy business [TS]

01:15:18   because it's like how you know how do I [TS]

01:15:21   know what's the next Breaking Bad and [TS]

01:15:23   what's the next planet of the apps like [TS]

01:15:26   can I tell the other ministry in those [TS]

01:15:27   two when they're being pitched to me [TS]

01:15:28   right if I get a pitch for the next [TS]

01:15:30   Breaking Bad can I actually develop it [TS]

01:15:33   give them the right amount of money and [TS]

01:15:34   get the right talent involved like you [TS]

01:15:36   know it this was said about the phone [TS]

01:15:38   business apples not just going to walk [TS]

01:15:39   in the entertainment business is a [TS]

01:15:41   similarly difficult problem but it's [TS]

01:15:43   much farther from Apple's wheelhouse and [TS]

01:15:46   Apple can't use all its old tricks of [TS]

01:15:48   we're gonna build every show like we do [TS]

01:15:50   an Apple product nope nope the shows [TS]

01:15:52   can't be in Apple products some shows [TS]

01:15:54   have to be the opposite of an Apple [TS]

01:15:56   product they have to be you know you [TS]

01:15:59   know intense and involve sex and [TS]

01:16:01   violence or they have to be goofy [TS]

01:16:03   comedies you know or like things that [TS]

01:16:07   just don't fit in the Apple way and [TS]

01:16:09   again you can have a brand you can be a [TS]

01:16:12   you know like Disney or like Pixar and [TS]

01:16:16   have a brand and and put everything [TS]

01:16:18   under that umbrella but its competitors [TS]

01:16:20   brands are in general content that [TS]

01:16:23   wouldn't air network television [TS]

01:16:25   expensive television made for adults so [TS]

01:16:28   this that's kind of what Amazon and [TS]

01:16:30   Netflix and HBO have been doing they're [TS]

01:16:34   all spending more money on it than Apple [TS]

01:16:35   still but just fine like I was just [TS]

01:16:37   getting started you know Netflix is [TS]

01:16:38   budget is 7 billion compared to apples [TS]

01:16:40   budget of 1 billion I think that's fine [TS]

01:16:42   Apple should not be putting 7 billion [TS]

01:16:44   towards something it doesn't know how to [TS]

01:16:45   do yet right so you know figure out how [TS]

01:16:47   to do it Amazon's 4.5 billion is mostly [TS]

01:16:50   their estimates from this article will [TS]

01:16:52   link in the show notes HBO is 2 billion [TS]

01:16:54   H was got a lot of bang for its buck [TS]

01:16:56   because they've they apparently really [TS]

01:16:57   know how to develop shows they don't [TS]

01:16:59   make a lot of shows but the ones they [TS]

01:17:01   make a pretty good hit ratio and their [TS]

01:17:03   hits are really big hits I'm doing it [TS]

01:17:05   for quite some time like they developed [TS]

01:17:07   a skill over a very long time yeah and [TS]

01:17:09   and you know it's a set it's you know [TS]

01:17:11   it's people it's it's sets different [TS]

01:17:13   people who know different people who [TS]

01:17:15   know how to get things develop know what [TS]

01:17:16   to buy what not to buy know how to make [TS]

01:17:18   sure that the things produced in the [TS]

01:17:21   same way that Apple knows how to like oh [TS]

01:17:23   I have an idea for product but how do I [TS]

01:17:24   make that product what people that we [TS]

01:17:25   need to make that product a reality so [TS]

01:17:28   that it actually works and what partners [TS]

01:17:29   do I have to do like it's a difficult [TS]

01:17:31   business um getting back to the broader [TS]

01:17:35   issue of this thing like the reason [TS]

01:17:37   Apple is doing [TS]

01:17:37   as we've discussed in the passes if the [TS]

01:17:40   Apple wants to be in this business of [TS]

01:17:41   selling you video over the Internet [TS]

01:17:43   everybody else is doing it it is an [TS]

01:17:46   important differentiator like eventually [TS]

01:17:48   if everybody else has original content [TS]

01:17:51   like this is why I get Hulu this is why [TS]

01:17:52   I get Netflix like because of these [TS]

01:17:54   specific shows and Apple doesn't have [TS]

01:17:56   any of those it has no more [TS]

01:17:59   differentiator like other than I bought [TS]

01:18:02   a bunch of movie on iTunes and unless I [TS]

01:18:04   go and you know remove the DRM oh I need [TS]

01:18:07   I need an Apple TV to to view them very [TS]

01:18:11   quickly these streaming services have [TS]

01:18:13   stopped being differentiated by the fact [TS]

01:18:15   that wow I can watch a video over the [TS]

01:18:17   internet cuz they can all do that and [TS]

01:18:19   they all have clients if this is another [TS]

01:18:20   thing all clients everywhere this is a [TS]

01:18:22   question someone had on Twitter I think [TS]

01:18:23   maybe directed us or maybe someone else [TS]

01:18:25   is like am I gonna need an Apple TV to [TS]

01:18:27   watch this original TV content or will I [TS]

01:18:29   be able to watch it not on an Apple TV [TS]

01:18:31   could I watch it in a web browser could [TS]

01:18:34   I you know couldn't watch it is it built [TS]

01:18:36   into my television and the answer so far [TS]

01:18:38   is haplin's apples been like well no you [TS]

01:18:40   can watch them your iPad your iPhone and [TS]

01:18:42   your Apple TV no place else can you [TS]

01:18:44   watch it's not built into your TV you [TS]

01:18:46   can't watch from a web browser you can't [TS]

01:18:47   watch it on Windows and it's like what [TS]

01:18:49   nobody else is doing that if you want to [TS]

01:18:51   watch Netflix you can watch it [TS]

01:18:52   everywhere you go like a Netflix on your [TS]

01:18:54   on your wristwatch I mean you know it's [TS]

01:18:55   it's everywhere nothing doesn't have [TS]

01:18:57   Netflix on it that's the strategy and [TS]

01:18:59   you do if you want to compete so that's [TS]

01:19:02   the other thing I'm looking for is will [TS]

01:19:03   Apple go iPod on this and say yes we're [TS]

01:19:05   gonna make the iPod for Windows yes [TS]

01:19:07   we're gonna let you watch whatever [TS]

01:19:09   they're gonna and I have to divorce her [TS]

01:19:10   from Apple music obviously - because [TS]

01:19:12   it's silly to continue with that charade [TS]

01:19:13   right if they really want to play with [TS]

01:19:17   their big competitors Netflix Amazon HBO [TS]

01:19:20   Hulu everybody else who's got some kind [TS]

01:19:22   of is funding some kind of original [TS]

01:19:24   content table stakes is I can view it [TS]

01:19:26   anywhere I want and the original content [TS]

01:19:29   is actually worth getting the service [TS]

01:19:30   for and they've got a long way to go to [TS]

01:19:32   get there someone pointed out that maybe [TS]

01:19:34   you can watch it on iTunes in Windows [TS]

01:19:36   probably if I joined the Windows [TS]

01:19:40   probably not the idea of viewing [TS]

01:19:41   experience and we're all rooting for [TS]

01:19:42   iTunes to die anyway right now I feel [TS]

01:19:44   like this is one of those things - like [TS]

01:19:46   for for this to succeed you have to [TS]

01:19:49   really go all in on it [TS]

01:19:51   you [TS]

01:19:51   have to really you know like you were [TS]

01:19:53   saying like you this right now it seems [TS]

01:19:55   like these original content efforts are [TS]

01:19:57   just he's kind of like side projects [TS]

01:20:00   that are a little bit promoted a little [TS]

01:20:03   bit funded a little bit prioritized and [TS]

01:20:05   they're kind of these things that are [TS]

01:20:07   made to try to boost Apple music buzz [TS]

01:20:10   and subscriptions which is totally wrong [TS]

01:20:12   like that's not how you compete in the [TS]

01:20:14   music space you don't compete there with [TS]

01:20:15   video services that with with a two or [TS]

01:20:18   three original content lines like that's [TS]

01:20:20   not at all how that works but I feel [TS]

01:20:23   like if Apple really wants to do this [TS]

01:20:24   really do it like really go all-in make [TS]

01:20:27   it a big thing maybe by somebody like [TS]

01:20:29   Netflix or HBO or something like really [TS]

01:20:31   go all out and really do it I just I [TS]

01:20:34   don't see the value in kind of kind of [TS]

01:20:37   half butting it like they've been doing [TS]

01:20:38   seemingly so far like why do a little [TS]

01:20:42   bit of this kind of buried in this [TS]

01:20:43   product that no one's looking for video [TS]

01:20:45   in either don't do it or do it right [TS]

01:20:48   because maybe like the slow start like I [TS]

01:20:50   don't know what the budget was before [TS]

01:20:51   but again 1 billion is a smaller budget [TS]

01:20:53   like they're they're obviously getting [TS]

01:20:54   serious about it and hot trying to hire [TS]

01:20:56   more of the right people but it's a slow [TS]

01:20:57   start like they're not they're not [TS]

01:20:59   coming in on day one and said we're [TS]

01:21:01   gonna put 10 billion dollars because [TS]

01:21:02   they just blow it they blow that 10 [TS]

01:21:04   billion they have no idea what to do [TS]

01:21:05   with that money like it's not so I mean [TS]

01:21:07   the slow start would be better if the [TS]

01:21:09   few little things they made were [TS]

01:21:10   actually good even if they're weird [TS]

01:21:11   appendages to Apple music but I mean the [TS]

01:21:14   Apple music thing I think it's learning [TS]

01:21:16   experience it who knows maybe the [TS]

01:21:17   carpool karaoke is gonna be insanely [TS]

01:21:18   popular just because we don't watch it [TS]

01:21:20   like I know what carpool karaoke is [TS]

01:21:21   people seem to like it it's you know [TS]

01:21:24   even if it's not my particular thing [TS]

01:21:26   sometimes they're amusing right and the [TS]

01:21:28   reality show was a flop but like you [TS]

01:21:31   know reality some reality shows or hits [TS]

01:21:32   some aren't it wasn't it wasn't a crazy [TS]

01:21:34   idea they just did just blew it they [TS]

01:21:36   didn't do it they didn't make something [TS]

01:21:37   that people really want to watch [TS]

01:21:38   probably again because I feel like they [TS]

01:21:40   they want to have some kind of Apple [TS]

01:21:42   news we're Apple what kind of synergy do [TS]

01:21:44   we have with like no no energy Breaking [TS]

01:21:47   Bad has no synergy but the people who [TS]

01:21:48   fund it it's just a good show you just [TS]

01:21:51   need to make stuff that people want to [TS]

01:21:54   watch and it's really really hard and I [TS]

01:21:56   can't help you with it you don't know [TS]

01:21:57   how to do it either but hiring people [TS]

01:21:59   who have done it in the past is a good [TS]

01:22:00   start you know that's a difficulty about [TS]

01:22:02   a lot of these things like again Apple [TS]

01:22:04   very small teams small numbers of people [TS]

01:22:07   if one or two or three people you have [TS]

01:22:10   in charge of this with the most power [TS]

01:22:12   are gonna have a big influence and if [TS]

01:22:14   you end up hiring the wrong people you [TS]

01:22:16   know then that's bad you get a [TS]

01:22:21   Papermaster situation or even if you [TS]

01:22:24   just get like a forestall can't get [TS]

01:22:26   along with I've and you have two can one [TS]

01:22:27   of them it's you know these are big [TS]

01:22:31   companies with a lot of money at stake [TS]

01:22:32   but in the end it comes down to just a [TS]

01:22:33   small number of people so Marco you uh [TS]

01:22:36   blogged for the first time in forever [TS]

01:22:39   recently I'm very proud of you this is [TS]

01:22:41   very exciting does it yeah it counts it [TS]

01:22:45   turns out that market org is still a [TS]

01:22:47   thing it hadn't been a thing for almost [TS]

01:22:50   three months but it is still a thing [TS]

01:22:52   however Marco giveth and Marco taketh [TS]

01:22:55   away what happened to send to watch an [TS]

01:22:58   overcast basically I had to pull it I've [TS]

01:23:01   already covered this pretty well both in [TS]

01:23:03   the blog post and in under the radar [TS]

01:23:04   about two weeks ago so I don't want to [TS]

01:23:06   cover it too much here but basically I [TS]

01:23:10   was using a crazy hack that would allow [TS]

01:23:13   me to use good audio api's on the Apple [TS]

01:23:16   watch and watch iOS for that doesn't [TS]

01:23:18   work anymore so now the only way to [TS]

01:23:20   write this feature is to stop using the [TS]

01:23:22   good audio api's that allow my process [TS]

01:23:24   to keep running and monitoring with AV [TS]

01:23:26   audio player and the only way to make [TS]

01:23:29   this happen now is to use the old WK [TS]

01:23:32   audio file player watch playback API [TS]

01:23:35   which basically is used in practice by I [TS]

01:23:40   think almost nothing Apple doesn't seem [TS]

01:23:43   to use it for anything which is probably [TS]

01:23:45   why it's so incomplete and buggy and [TS]

01:23:47   it's it's it's a much larger more [TS]

01:23:51   complex pile of hacks because it [TS]

01:23:53   involves transferring control of the [TS]

01:23:55   playback to the system and your app [TS]

01:23:57   stops running in the background and then [TS]

01:23:59   this the system will wake you up [TS]

01:24:01   occasionally maybe if you are lucky when [TS]

01:24:04   things happen like the queue runs out or [TS]

01:24:06   the track is over or something else but [TS]

01:24:08   that's about it it forces a certain type [TS]

01:24:10   of interaction with the now playing [TS]

01:24:11   glance that does not work at all for [TS]

01:24:13   podcasts it makes it very bad experience [TS]

01:24:16   for podcasts so things like [TS]

01:24:18   if you hit the seek forward button it [TS]

01:24:20   immediately stops playing the current [TS]

01:24:22   podcast and either move to the next one [TS]

01:24:24   if there is one or just stops its [TS]

01:24:27   instead of like skipping forward 15 [TS]

01:24:28   seconds or whatever like you actually [TS]

01:24:30   want things like that there's all sorts [TS]

01:24:32   of little shortcomings like that this [TS]

01:24:34   API was designed for music it was it was [TS]

01:24:37   clearly designed so that somebody you [TS]

01:24:40   know somebody like a Spotify or [TS]

01:24:41   something could make a sync to Apple [TS]

01:24:43   watch feature and have the Apple watch [TS]

01:24:45   play a playlist of music when you apply [TS]

01:24:47   the same API to podcasts there are so [TS]

01:24:49   many shortcomings and bugs and weird [TS]

01:24:51   behavior to the system that are just not [TS]

01:24:53   at all a podcast listeners want or need [TS]

01:24:55   that it makes for a very bad experience [TS]

01:24:56   so early on when I was developing the [TS]

01:24:59   sin to watch feature I was basing it on [TS]

01:25:03   this API because this seemed to be the [TS]

01:25:04   only way to do it and I actually decided [TS]

01:25:07   to not ship it like I spent months on it [TS]

01:25:09   and after fighting with his API over and [TS]

01:25:12   over again I decided it was so bad I [TS]

01:25:14   can't ship this feature so I didn't I [TS]

01:25:16   found a bunch of bugs I you know talked [TS]

01:25:18   to people and Apple to make sure they [TS]

01:25:20   knew about them and everything and you [TS]

01:25:21   know how many apps are using this of all [TS]

01:25:24   the of all the needs that watch OS has [TS]

01:25:26   like this might satisfy like ten apps [TS]

01:25:29   maybe like almost nobody needs this [TS]

01:25:30   feature so I can understand why this [TS]

01:25:32   doesn't seem to be a priority for them [TS]

01:25:33   to to really improve audio playback API [TS]

01:25:36   was in the launch especially because [TS]

01:25:37   this one probably works ok enough for [TS]

01:25:41   music syncing so it's really only [TS]

01:25:42   podcast an audiobook another long-form [TS]

01:25:45   audio syncing they would actually need [TS]

01:25:46   this my hack but that allowed me to use [TS]

01:25:50   a the audio player allowed me to ship a [TS]

01:25:52   version of this feature that was [TS]

01:25:55   minimally acceptable it still wasn't [TS]

01:25:58   good there's still lots of other [TS]

01:25:59   problems with the feature like how long [TS]

01:26:01   it takes to transfer data how I as the [TS]

01:26:04   as like basically as the programmer and [TS]

01:26:08   that therefore you as the user don't [TS]

01:26:10   have any indication of whether it [TS]

01:26:12   transfers in progress or how long it's [TS]

01:26:14   going to take like the reason that's not [TS]

01:26:16   exposed in the UI is that I don't have [TS]

01:26:18   that information the API doesn't provide [TS]

01:26:19   that information so there's there's all [TS]

01:26:22   sorts of shortcomings in the api's and [TS]

01:26:24   the technical limitations of these [TS]

01:26:26   platforms most of which are very [TS]

01:26:29   understandable because most of us show [TS]

01:26:30   like yeah you know what the watch is in [TS]

01:26:31   low [TS]

01:26:31   our device you know it needs to squeeze [TS]

01:26:34   every bit of power it can out of the you [TS]

01:26:36   know tiny little parts and batteries [TS]

01:26:38   that it has most of these are very [TS]

01:26:40   understandable things but the reality is [TS]

01:26:42   it was barely possible to make a barely [TS]

01:26:46   acceptable version of this feature and [TS]

01:26:47   now that the audio API has changed and [TS]

01:26:50   has forced me to go back to the old one [TS]

01:26:51   that I deemed unship well you know [TS]

01:26:54   probably nine months ago when I first [TS]

01:26:56   tried to do this that is now that has [TS]

01:26:58   now made this feature unship evil again [TS]

01:27:00   unfortunately I've already shipped it so [TS]

01:27:03   so I had to remove this feature and and [TS]

01:27:06   that's never easy that's never an easy [TS]

01:27:08   decision to make [TS]

01:27:09   it's not a very popular thing to do you [TS]

01:27:12   know I'm getting you know a good number [TS]

01:27:14   of one-star reviews from it which I [TS]

01:27:15   expected you know that was part of the [TS]

01:27:17   calculus to do it I had to weigh that [TS]

01:27:19   but you know I removed the feature now [TS]

01:27:21   and if I can bring it back in the future [TS]

01:27:24   you know as the api's and the hardware [TS]

01:27:27   mature I would love to do that because I [TS]

01:27:29   already wrote most of the hard stuff to [TS]

01:27:31   do this but there is simply no good way [TS]

01:27:35   to play podcasts in the background on [TS]

01:27:37   the Apple watch in watch OS 4 and [TS]

01:27:40   hopefully that'll change over time do [TS]

01:27:42   you have any hopes of them changing it [TS]

01:27:45   like maybe if Apple heads offline watch [TS]

01:27:48   play backup podcast to their podcast app [TS]

01:27:50   do you know do you have any info like oh [TS]

01:27:53   you know not this release this release [TS]

01:27:55   you're stuck but next year they'll be [TS]

01:27:58   updating always the API is to be podcast [TS]

01:28:00   savvy because I guess or not you know [TS]

01:28:01   not obscure like it seemed not they're [TS]

01:28:04   obviously not as important as music [TS]

01:28:05   right but in this release they did the [TS]

01:28:07   thing lets you mess with the music [TS]

01:28:08   during your workout in an easier way so [TS]

01:28:10   they understand that people are [TS]

01:28:11   controlling audio playback on their [TS]

01:28:14   watches so do you think next year you [TS]

01:28:17   know do you have expectations that wo [TS]

01:28:18   receive like Oh new API is that make it [TS]

01:28:21   possible to do this again or you just [TS]

01:28:22   like have no real hope of them [TS]

01:28:25   addressing this because it doesn't seem [TS]

01:28:26   like a thing they care about well [TS]

01:28:28   there's still a lot of technical [TS]

01:28:30   limitations so with with the new like [TS]

01:28:32   music syncing there's been much choice [TS]

01:28:34   for they demoed during the keynote that [TS]

01:28:35   there's this kind of like new automatic [TS]

01:28:37   music syncing kind of thing where you [TS]

01:28:39   where it just kind of automatically can [TS]

01:28:41   can like sync a playlist you know for [TS]

01:28:43   you based on what you like a basement [TS]

01:28:45   you slice it over [TS]

01:28:45   where else and so I think the real like [TS]

01:28:49   the way this seems to work is overnight [TS]

01:28:52   while it's charging on the charger it's [TS]

01:28:54   doing these data transfers that are that [TS]

01:28:55   could be large and time-consuming so [TS]

01:28:57   that way doesn't have to worry about you [TS]

01:28:59   know speed being low or about using too [TS]

01:29:01   much power for a podcast like feature to [TS]

01:29:05   work that's probably how it really has [TS]

01:29:07   to be because you know problem number [TS]

01:29:08   one which I never solved was it's too [TS]

01:29:11   slow to transfer data to to the watch [TS]

01:29:13   and it all sorts of crazy hacks like [TS]

01:29:14   I've heard a whole transcoding engine [TS]

01:29:16   that would Transco to a lower bitrate [TS]

01:29:18   and then send it because that was [TS]

01:29:20   actually faster than just sending it to [TS]

01:29:21   begin with you know its original size so [TS]

01:29:24   solving that speed problem that's a huge [TS]

01:29:27   problem and it's going to take I think [TS]

01:29:30   multiple generations probably of the [TS]

01:29:32   hardware being improved before that's no [TS]

01:29:35   longer a big problem so as long as they [TS]

01:29:38   transfer the watch is still slow syncing [TS]

01:29:40   podcasts to it is always going to be [TS]

01:29:42   awkward or clunky these podcasts don't [TS]

01:29:45   work the same ways music with music you [TS]

01:29:47   can sync a playlist overnight and that's [TS]

01:29:49   it you're done like you're probably not [TS]

01:29:51   going to want to change that like in the [TS]

01:29:54   middle of the day by sending all of a [TS]

01:29:56   sudden 60 Meg's of new information to it [TS]

01:29:58   that you really want to be available [TS]

01:30:00   right the second right now whereas with [TS]

01:30:02   podcast that happens an episode comes [TS]

01:30:04   out like you know if this worked the [TS]

01:30:06   same way that we that have worked in the [TS]

01:30:07   iPod days back when podcast first came [TS]

01:30:09   out a decade ago the idea of an episode [TS]

01:30:12   coming out and then you having to wait [TS]

01:30:14   till you got home to sync it to your [TS]

01:30:16   iPod and listen to it maybe the next day [TS]

01:30:18   that was how we did things back then but [TS]

01:30:21   now things are better now we don't live [TS]

01:30:23   in you know the Stone Age anymore now [TS]

01:30:25   when a new episode comes out you expect [TS]

01:30:28   to be able to hit play immediately and [TS]

01:30:30   start playing it and so to have that [TS]

01:30:31   with to have that kind of experience [TS]

01:30:33   with the watch with podcasts the whole [TS]

01:30:37   you you can't wait for it to sync [TS]

01:30:38   overnight you can't wait for like oh [TS]

01:30:40   next I'm I plug in the watch I have some [TS]

01:30:41   kind of system to automatically sync [TS]

01:30:43   stuff over while charging overnight like [TS]

01:30:44   that that's not a good enough experience [TS]

01:30:46   what you need is something that you can [TS]

01:30:47   say I want to listen to this right now [TS]

01:30:48   go and have it be not a significant [TS]

01:30:51   amount of time before you can do that I [TS]

01:30:53   think long-term the way this is solved [TS]

01:30:55   is the watch becomes a full-blown client [TS]

01:30:58   of the app [TS]

01:30:59   it's own downloads and its own sync to [TS]

01:31:01   the servers and is no longer you know a [TS]

01:31:04   tethered to the phone app as much as it [TS]

01:31:06   is now long term that is probably the [TS]

01:31:08   right solution but that requires large [TS]

01:31:11   advances in the hardware and software [TS]

01:31:13   before that's possible you know that [TS]

01:31:14   would require first of all the the [TS]

01:31:16   rumored cellular watch or at least you [TS]

01:31:19   know more frequent Wi-Fi connectivity [TS]

01:31:20   whatever you know that would require [TS]

01:31:22   things that we don't have today really [TS]

01:31:23   to do that to that very well the other [TS]

01:31:25   thing is on the software side I don't [TS]

01:31:28   know the the fine detail of this in fact [TS]

01:31:29   I bet Steve trout and Smith probably [TS]

01:31:31   knows a lot more about this than I do [TS]

01:31:32   when when you write apps for the i phone [TS]

01:31:36   module using are the exact same API that [TS]

01:31:40   Apple uses the incentive is pretty [TS]

01:31:42   strong for Apple to keep those things [TS]

01:31:44   up-to-date because they use them too so [TS]

01:31:46   if there's like a bug in UI kit it's [TS]

01:31:49   probably gonna affect Apple also in [TS]

01:31:51   their own apps and their own development [TS]

01:31:52   so they have a pretty strong incentive [TS]

01:31:54   to fix that whereas on the watch [TS]

01:31:57   developers have only have only had [TS]

01:31:59   access to watch kit we don't have [TS]

01:32:01   straight UI kit it seems I think I'm not [TS]

01:32:05   positive on this but I think Apple is [TS]

01:32:07   using lower level api's Apple seems to [TS]

01:32:10   be using something like UI kit to make [TS]

01:32:11   their apps on the watch but we [TS]

01:32:14   developers are using this kind of subset [TS]

01:32:16   then that we're kind of being forced to [TS]

01:32:18   use and we can't use like the real API [TS]

01:32:20   is and the watch and so what we are [TS]

01:32:23   using Apple doesn't seem to have a very [TS]

01:32:25   strong incentive to fix what we use [TS]

01:32:29   because I don't think they're using it [TS]

01:32:31   and especially like the the audio [TS]

01:32:34   playback API is that you know the what I [TS]

01:32:37   have seen so far with with the [TS]

01:32:40   limitations and bugs that they have I [TS]

01:32:42   don't think Apple uses any of them on [TS]

01:32:45   the watch that we use like I honestly [TS]

01:32:48   don't like at Apple is probably using AV [TS]

01:32:50   foundation directly on the watch but we [TS]

01:32:53   don't have access to that in any kind of [TS]

01:32:55   way that would that we can actually [TS]

01:32:55   background on the watch we only have for [TS]

01:32:58   grant access to some of those things and [TS]

01:33:00   background access to this awful wk [TS]

01:33:02   audiophile player thing that has all the [TS]

01:33:04   bugs so until that changes like until [TS]

01:33:08   until apples using the same things we [TS]

01:33:10   are using on the watch I don't think [TS]

01:33:12   it's ever going to be [TS]

01:33:13   amazing development platform to make [TS]

01:33:15   advanced [TS]

01:33:16   type of apps like a podcast player I [TS]

01:33:18   hope that changes I really do but so far [TS]

01:33:22   that's it seems like we are using this [TS]

01:33:25   kind of these kind of like you know baby [TS]

01:33:26   API is these like training wheel a P I [TS]

01:33:28   is in the watch that existed at first [TS]

01:33:30   because it was just so limited and so [TS]

01:33:32   low powered and like the first watch kit [TS]

01:33:34   was this huge hack that were the thing [TS]

01:33:35   around the phone and was kind of beamed [TS]

01:33:37   over so like it made sense then a little [TS]

01:33:39   bit but now like I want real API access [TS]

01:33:43   in the watch I want I want like low [TS]

01:33:44   level you know UI frameworks and [TS]

01:33:47   full-blown audio frameworks and exactly [TS]

01:33:50   what we have on the phone in regards to [TS]

01:33:51   like you know what I mentioned earlier [TS]

01:33:53   are like about how in in when the watch [TS]

01:33:56   crazy API if a user hits next track or [TS]

01:33:59   forward it just stops a podcast if it's [TS]

01:34:02   playing in the background like the [TS]

01:34:04   podcast player on the watch can't do [TS]

01:34:06   what we've done on iOS for ages which is [TS]

01:34:08   interpret the remote control event [TS]

01:34:10   manually interpret the event that is [TS]

01:34:12   sent from a headphone clicker or the [TS]

01:34:14   lock screen or your car Bluetooth or [TS]

01:34:17   whatever that says next track and [TS]

01:34:18   instead of doing next track on iOS we [TS]

01:34:21   can say oh we'll just move it forward 15 [TS]

01:34:23   seconds or we can respond whoever we [TS]

01:34:24   want to that on the watch none of those [TS]

01:34:26   api's are there we have no way to [TS]

01:34:28   interact with the remote controls we [TS]

01:34:30   have no way to set what appears on the [TS]

01:34:33   now playing scream beast besides a very [TS]

01:34:35   very limited thing with this crazy watch [TS]

01:34:37   with this crazy audio player API you can [TS]

01:34:39   kind of set it but then it's kind of [TS]

01:34:41   unreliable even basic stuff I found like [TS]

01:34:43   if you hit pause it doesn't pause like [TS]

01:34:47   it's half a time like it just two [TS]

01:34:49   seconds after you hit play or pause the [TS]

01:34:51   button flips over back the other way [TS]

01:34:53   it's like crazy stuff it just doesn't [TS]

01:34:55   work every time I've worked against [TS]

01:34:57   those api's I have felt like I'm the [TS]

01:34:59   first person to ever have used them so [TS]

01:35:02   to answer your the actual question you [TS]

01:35:04   asked me 25 minutes ago I think it will [TS]

01:35:06   eventually hopefully become possible to [TS]

01:35:09   write a good standalone podcast player [TS]

01:35:11   on the watch but I don't think that's [TS]

01:35:14   coming soon because too much has to [TS]

01:35:16   mature we need hardware advancements for [TS]

01:35:19   the four you know battery and power and [TS]

01:35:21   data transfer speeds we need all those [TS]

01:35:23   things to improve we need the ability [TS]

01:35:25   for apps to actually stay running in the [TS]

01:35:27   background you know as they're playing [TS]

01:35:29   audio not just do what watch OS tries to [TS]

01:35:31   do now and and you know kill us in the [TS]

01:35:33   backgrounds and leave this weird [TS]

01:35:35   standalone file player that's run by the [TS]

01:35:36   system like no we need what we have on [TS]

01:35:38   the phone basically the phone had us a [TS]

01:35:40   very long time ago so maybe we weren't [TS]

01:35:42   that far off who knows but whatever it [TS]

01:35:44   is we need API parity in a lot of these [TS]

01:35:48   areas between the watching the phone and [TS]

01:35:50   not only do we not have that but it [TS]

01:35:53   almost feels like Apple doesn't want to [TS]

01:35:54   do that in the watch it seems like they [TS]

01:35:56   think that this is all the audio [TS]

01:35:59   exposure we need right now and I don't [TS]

01:36:01   know if that's an ideological thing or [TS]

01:36:02   if that's reacting to limitations of the [TS]

01:36:04   current hardware either way that has to [TS]

01:36:06   change and that's that's a big change so [TS]

01:36:09   I don't expect for it to be soon so if [TS]

01:36:13   if you got I'm trying to think of the [TS]

01:36:15   minimal stuff that you would need for [TS]

01:36:16   this because it's gonna it's gonna be a [TS]

01:36:18   while before you get like full access to [TS]

01:36:20   the api's that allies if ever if you [TS]

01:36:23   just got cell data and the ability to [TS]

01:36:27   run in the background at the very least [TS]

01:36:29   you could make a very simple streaming [TS]

01:36:33   only player that communicates with that [TS]

01:36:38   that pulls the data from wherever the [TS]

01:36:40   the podcast is and that communicates [TS]

01:36:41   with your server in a lightweight way to [TS]

01:36:44   keep sort of the timestamp updated right [TS]

01:36:46   because if you is that's not that's not [TS]

01:36:48   heavy background work you're like you [TS]

01:36:50   know pull it pulling data for this [TS]

01:36:51   podcast you know you have plenty of time [TS]

01:36:53   to slurp it up when your connection is [TS]

01:36:54   good and then just sleep for a while you [TS]

01:36:56   know whatever it's the input of the [TS]

01:36:58   audio data is fine and you've gotta [TS]

01:37:00   communicate with your server a little [TS]

01:37:01   bit every you know you do it every [TS]

01:37:03   minute who knows like just say Oh update [TS]

01:37:05   the pipe is it an update to play [TS]

01:37:06   position or whatever and then I guess [TS]

01:37:08   minimal interface the controls to [TS]

01:37:11   understand what you you know how to have [TS]

01:37:13   control over when you get the next and [TS]

01:37:14   previous to do something different than [TS]

01:37:16   than doing something ridiculous and that [TS]

01:37:18   I think you know I know this is this [TS]

01:37:21   entire section is about offline watch [TS]

01:37:22   playback but this I think would fulfill [TS]

01:37:25   all the needs like I don't need to bring [TS]

01:37:26   my phone with me I can just wear my [TS]

01:37:28   watch and I can listen to my podcast and [TS]

01:37:30   but mostly getting it with it but the [TS]

01:37:33   question about do you have an [TS]

01:37:34   expectation today if you had any inside [TS]

01:37:35   information about it but I don't [TS]

01:37:37   presumably Apple will eventually on this [TS]

01:37:40   list [TS]

01:37:41   things that we want to add to the watch [TS]

01:37:42   get to the point where people like yeah [TS]

01:37:43   people do like to listen to music and [TS]

01:37:44   their watch they also would like to [TS]

01:37:46   probably listen to podcasts and their [TS]

01:37:48   watch they know how many people listen [TS]

01:37:49   to podcasts they have their stats for [TS]

01:37:50   the podcast app that comes bundled with [TS]

01:37:52   your phone podcasts are a thing again [TS]

01:37:55   not as big as music eventually I think [TS]

01:37:57   Apple will get around to the idea of [TS]

01:37:59   like oh it's silly that you can't listen [TS]

01:38:00   to podcasts and your watch without your [TS]

01:38:02   phone with you especially now that we [TS]

01:38:03   have the second generation of this watch [TS]

01:38:05   with sell day access right so they will [TS]

01:38:07   get to it eventually so I feel like [TS]

01:38:08   there's hope for you you're not just [TS]

01:38:10   like swinging in the wind we're like [TS]

01:38:11   they're just never gonna get to me but I [TS]

01:38:12   don't know what the timeline looks like [TS]

01:38:14   on that it's um it's very difficult to [TS]

01:38:15   tell how much Apple cares about a [TS]

01:38:18   podcast sometimes well it's also this is [TS]

01:38:21   the kind of feature that and believe [TS]

01:38:23   everyone's and lots of these if you ask [TS]

01:38:25   people if they want this feature a [TS]

01:38:28   certain number of them will say yes of [TS]

01:38:31   course I want that feature or certain [TS]

01:38:32   I'm or the MOL email you be without [TS]

01:38:33   you've asked you saying please I want [TS]

01:38:35   this feature but then if you actually [TS]

01:38:37   give it to them the the number of people [TS]

01:38:40   who actually use it is all usually or [TS]

01:38:43   not often for some of these features way [TS]

01:38:45   way lower than than what they thought [TS]

01:38:48   before they had it it's also the [TS]

01:38:50   usability like I remember when I tried [TS]

01:38:51   to send it to the watch it's not easy to [TS]

01:38:54   just figure out even how to do it and [TS]

01:38:55   then when you do figure out how to do it [TS]

01:38:57   the fact that it doesn't work that well [TS]

01:38:58   will discourage people from using it [TS]

01:39:00   sure and and I think a lot of people had [TS]

01:39:03   that same experience with playing music [TS]

01:39:05   on the watch through Apple's apps like [TS]

01:39:06   it the reason they had to do this this [TS]

01:39:08   kind of overnight automatic syncing [TS]

01:39:10   thing with watch OS 4 is because before [TS]

01:39:12   that when you had to kind of manually [TS]

01:39:14   picked up to sync over than wait you [TS]

01:39:16   know forever for transfer that was [TS]

01:39:18   terrible it was so bad most people [TS]

01:39:19   didn't do it even now on the watch I [TS]

01:39:22   find the playback experience even if you [TS]

01:39:24   even if you can get the data there the [TS]

01:39:26   the playback and control experience and [TS]

01:39:29   the watch is a really rough compared to [TS]

01:39:30   what you have on the phone again this [TS]

01:39:32   goes back to my thing of never bet [TS]

01:39:33   against the smart phone the smart phone [TS]

01:39:35   is really good at this stuff it's it is [TS]

01:39:38   very rare that I do something on my [TS]

01:39:41   watch to interact with a podcast that is [TS]

01:39:43   at all non-trivial that I don't regret [TS]

01:39:46   not doing it not just taking out my [TS]

01:39:48   phone and doing it there like if you're [TS]

01:39:49   doing something like you know skip to [TS]

01:39:51   the next chapter fine take up take out [TS]

01:39:53   the watch I do there it's it's [TS]

01:39:55   fast if that's you know if you're out [TS]

01:39:56   with your walking on me that's fine but [TS]

01:39:58   like for anything anything non-trivial I [TS]

01:40:01   find it very hard to do anything on the [TS]

01:40:02   watch and not even just with audio in [TS]

01:40:05   general and and so and there have been [TS]

01:40:07   lots of other overcast features where [TS]

01:40:09   like people have asked for it or wanted [TS]

01:40:11   it some of the things I haven't even [TS]

01:40:13   released because like like for example [TS]

01:40:15   the the Sonos integration I right now [TS]

01:40:19   there's as I mentioned I think somewhere [TS]

01:40:21   on Twitter is when there's an API [TS]

01:40:22   limitation that basically makes it in my [TS]

01:40:24   opinion not good enough to ship sir [TS]

01:40:26   sound familiar so I'm not shipping it [TS]

01:40:28   but I found in my testing of the Sonos [TS]

01:40:32   integration it was not a very good [TS]

01:40:34   experience and I mostly just preferred [TS]

01:40:37   to have podcast playing through my phone [TS]

01:40:40   speaker sitting on the counter or [TS]

01:40:42   eventually upgraded to an iPad pro with [TS]

01:40:44   big speakers in it so that's the way [TS]

01:40:45   like and so like an iPad pro on the [TS]

01:40:47   counter is by far the best way to play [TS]

01:40:50   podcasts out in the open at home by a [TS]

01:40:52   long shot it's way better than so no [TS]

01:40:54   it's way better than echo it's just a [TS]

01:40:56   way better experience and because pot [TS]

01:40:58   you don't like you don't listen to [TS]

01:40:59   podcast the same way listen to music [TS]

01:41:00   there's a lot more interaction involved [TS]

01:41:03   and you have different like you want to [TS]

01:41:05   look at if somebody mentions a link you [TS]

01:41:07   want to look at the show notes if you [TS]

01:41:08   know you might want to seek around a [TS]

01:41:10   little bitter or look at a chapter list [TS]

01:41:11   or skip ahead or skip commercials or [TS]

01:41:13   whatever else like there's much more [TS]

01:41:15   interaction with podcast than when you [TS]

01:41:17   have with music so like these systems [TS]

01:41:19   that are designed for music playback [TS]

01:41:20   when you try to play podcast them it [TS]

01:41:22   sounds like a good idea and it's [TS]

01:41:24   something could be awesome but trust me [TS]

01:41:25   when you actually get it it's not nearly [TS]

01:41:27   as good as just using your phone or [TS]

01:41:29   using an iPad that's you know sitting up [TS]

01:41:31   on the counter so there's a lot of these [TS]

01:41:34   features and I think watch playback is [TS]

01:41:36   just one of these things that the nature [TS]

01:41:38   of interacting with the watch it's so [TS]

01:41:40   limited the software so limited the [TS]

01:41:42   hardware the ergonomics are so limited [TS]

01:41:44   because it's such a tiny little device I [TS]

01:41:46   don't think it's ever gonna be a great [TS]

01:41:49   experience to play and manage podcasts [TS]

01:41:52   on the watch it's it's gonna be [TS]

01:41:54   something that people will ask for [TS]

01:41:55   forever and some people will use it no [TS]

01:41:58   question you know I'm not saying nobody [TS]

01:42:00   will use it but I'm saying very few [TS]

01:42:02   people will even if it's done well like [TS]

01:42:04   even you know even if I do everything [TS]

01:42:06   right and even if the harbor gets a [TS]

01:42:07   little bit better and [TS]

01:42:08   things a little bit faster I still don't [TS]

01:42:11   think it's going to be a very good [TS]

01:42:12   experience compared to used taking at [TS]

01:42:14   your phone and doing it there you know [TS]

01:42:16   you said something earlier Marco about [TS]

01:42:18   the potential for an LTE equipped watch [TS]

01:42:21   and I was on clockwise earlier today and [TS]

01:42:24   that was actually the question I brought [TS]

01:42:26   up is hey if would you be interested in [TS]

01:42:28   an LTE equipped watch and and you know [TS]

01:42:31   why or why not and and not to rehash [TS]

01:42:33   that too much but what I was saying was [TS]

01:42:36   you know I've been running a few times a [TS]

01:42:38   week lately and we'll see how long that [TS]

01:42:39   sticks but it's been sticking you know [TS]

01:42:41   for a while now it's been a couple of [TS]

01:42:42   months and it occurred to me recently [TS]

01:42:45   that the part of the reason I bring my [TS]

01:42:48   phone when I run is because if I were to [TS]

01:42:51   somehow really injure myself I'd really [TS]

01:42:54   want to be able to call like Aaron or or [TS]

01:42:56   you know an ambulance if it really was [TS]

01:42:58   that bad and if I had a watch that had [TS]

01:43:01   the mechanism by which I could do that [TS]

01:43:03   you know it was presumably you know with [TS]

01:43:05   LTE although I saw some rumblings [TS]

01:43:07   earlier today saying that maybe it would [TS]

01:43:09   be data only and not not permit phone [TS]

01:43:12   calls but either way if I had a watch [TS]

01:43:14   that could call for help someway somehow [TS]

01:43:17   then maybe I wouldn't need to bring my [TS]

01:43:19   phone with me which would be nice that I [TS]

01:43:21   wouldn't have to you know because [TS]

01:43:22   currently I carry it I don't have one of [TS]

01:43:23   those peculiar arm bands or anything and [TS]

01:43:26   it occurred to me Wow you know it would [TS]

01:43:28   be really great to be able to listen to [TS]

01:43:29   my podcasts on my crap so I definitely [TS]

01:43:34   am NOT one that had used the send to [TS]

01:43:37   watch feature in overcast while it was [TS]

01:43:39   there but I I am on a series zero watch [TS]

01:43:42   and I think I'll probably upgrade this [TS]

01:43:44   year and yeah it would be pretty cool if [TS]

01:43:46   that came back so count me in is one of [TS]

01:43:49   those people that's looking forward to [TS]

01:43:50   you somehow figuring out a way to make [TS]

01:43:51   this work again presumably with API [TS]

01:43:54   changes by the way Steve Brown Smith [TS]

01:43:58   actually gave us the name of the thing [TS]

01:44:01   that Apple's apps used on the watch in [TS]

01:44:04   the tradition of weird internal Apple [TS]

01:44:06   names I mean springboards kind of weird [TS]

01:44:08   too but the weird code games like [TS]

01:44:10   where's the watch like code name gizmo [TS]

01:44:11   or something anyway [TS]

01:44:12   watch kit runs on top of pepper UI core [TS]

01:44:16   like you know black pepper and pepper UI [TS]

01:44:20   core runs the top of you [TS]

01:44:21   like it how do you know it isn't about a [TS]

01:44:23   bell peppers I don't know what it's [TS]

01:44:25   about [TS]

01:44:26   maybe Chris pepper yeah couldn't be here [TS]

01:44:28   to correct your typos for you mm-hmm [TS]

01:44:31   joke with an audience of seven people [TS]

01:44:34   yay [TS]

01:44:35   thanks for sponsors this week fracture [TS]

01:44:37   and aftershocks and we'll see you next [TS]

01:44:40   week now the show is over it was [TS]

01:44:49   accidental URL is s so that's Casey less [TS]

01:45:20   and a are Co AR m and T Marco Arment [TS]

01:45:25   [Music] [TS]

01:45:36   I have some bike follow-up ah excellent [TS]

01:45:47   what's a year I saw your bike in our [TS]

01:45:49   tips bike and I couldn't figure out if [TS]

01:45:52   that was your I'm gonna buy the bike and [TS]

01:45:54   I don't like I'm gonna give it to TIFF [TS]

01:45:55   or was an entirely separate dedicated [TS]

01:45:58   TIFF bike it so well it was the bike [TS]

01:46:01   that I was buying for probably TIFF I [TS]

01:46:04   was gonna see if I liked it and and so [TS]

01:46:06   that's kind of why I bought it first [TS]

01:46:07   like I was going to use my opinion of [TS]

01:46:09   that to inform what I was going to get [TS]

01:46:11   for myself and that bike was the [TS]

01:46:13   priority Coast priority is a they seem [TS]

01:46:17   to be a pretty good bike company they [TS]

01:46:18   they they're a new york-based company [TS]

01:46:20   they starting Kickstarter and they they [TS]

01:46:23   have they do all belt drive bikes I [TS]

01:46:26   mentioned last year that I like the belt [TS]

01:46:27   drive for the lack of maintenance and [TS]

01:46:30   better you know everything so I like the [TS]

01:46:34   belt drive and that's when I wanted the [TS]

01:46:38   priority coast is their beach cruiser [TS]

01:46:40   model I got it [TS]

01:46:42   kind of thinking I don't think I want to [TS]

01:46:44   be screwed I think I wanted like a [TS]

01:46:45   little bit more like a forward position [TS]

01:46:47   like I've I always enjoyed mountain [TS]

01:46:50   bikes more than most other things most [TS]

01:46:52   other bike shapes I guess and you know [TS]

01:46:55   that kind of like kind of for position [TS]

01:46:56   with the straight bars and the hand [TS]

01:46:57   brakes and everything like I just like [TS]

01:46:59   that better I think but you know this is [TS]

01:47:02   a beach town and and every literally [TS]

01:47:05   every other bike in town except for the [TS]

01:47:07   cop bikes are beach cruisers even one of [TS]

01:47:10   the cops has a beach cruiser the rest [TS]

01:47:11   have mountain bikes but anyway so like I [TS]

01:47:14   thought that I should probably try that [TS]

01:47:15   so we did and it is a little bit big for [TS]

01:47:19   me which I kind of expected going into [TS]

01:47:21   it so it's a little bit big and I really [TS]

01:47:24   don't like the coaster break it this [TS]

01:47:26   seems like a beach cruiser thing that [TS]

01:47:28   all beach cruisers have that you know [TS]

01:47:29   where you pedal backwards to break the [TS]

01:47:31   coaster brakes I just I was not [TS]

01:47:34   I've taken that bike out a few times and [TS]

01:47:36   I just could not get into the coaster [TS]

01:47:38   brake it also it has the the coaster [TS]

01:47:40   brake seemingly I was like the main [TS]

01:47:41   break and then it also has a front only [TS]

01:47:44   hand brake and that to me was very [TS]

01:47:47   confusing I think if this was gonna be [TS]

01:47:49   my bike [TS]

01:47:50   I would actually remove the front [TS]

01:47:52   handbrake because to have like half of [TS]

01:47:55   one method of breaking but the main [TS]

01:47:57   method of breaking be the other thing [TS]

01:47:58   like it was just very confusing it like [TS]

01:48:00   I wanted that on there because coaster [TS]

01:48:02   brakes suck and if you need to stop I [TS]

01:48:05   don't want you to die because the [TS]

01:48:06   coaster brakes can't stop you you know [TS]

01:48:08   right I mean it really is this friction [TS]

01:48:10   boy even if the coaster brakes could [TS]

01:48:11   lock up the back wheel you will stop [TS]

01:48:13   faster if you could also do something to [TS]

01:48:15   stop the front wheel so I that would be [TS]

01:48:17   a bad idea to get a bike with coaster [TS]

01:48:19   brakes and remove I've just seen bikes [TS]

01:48:21   with hand brakes that only have the back [TS]

01:48:23   hand brake like you need you want [TS]

01:48:24   something pinching both the front of the [TS]

01:48:25   back wheels because you need both [TS]

01:48:27   contact patches to stop here in [TS]

01:48:28   emergency so don't don't do that well [TS]

01:48:30   and and you know my needs here are lower [TS]

01:48:32   because it again like because they're [TS]

01:48:34   all like sidewalks full of people that [TS]

01:48:36   you're riding on but there's no roads [TS]

01:48:37   there's like these broad sidewalks and [TS]

01:48:39   they're all full of people and wagons [TS]

01:48:40   and stuff so like you actually can't go [TS]

01:48:42   that fast most of the time so a deer [TS]

01:48:44   that yeah that actually is a concern or [TS]

01:48:46   fox or deers get deers gonna hit you [TS]

01:48:49   yeah that's more like more like it [TS]

01:48:51   anyway so so that was fine I then after [TS]

01:48:55   lots of research and waffling as you [TS]

01:48:57   know I'm I'm prone to do I decided you [TS]

01:49:00   know yeah right so I am now driving a [TS]

01:49:02   CVT [TS]

01:49:03   just for John oh my god oh my god it is [TS]

01:49:08   another it's also priority it's their [TS]

01:49:10   their continuum onyx model it's [TS]

01:49:13   basically their like high-end road bike [TS]

01:49:15   I have some issues with it it's not a [TS]

01:49:19   road bike like a road bike it's like a [TS]

01:49:20   it's like it's a commuter bike so it's [TS]

01:49:22   like it's not like a racing like like [TS]

01:49:24   the handlebars don't have like those [TS]

01:49:25   like dip down new shapes road bike is a [TS]

01:49:27   term of art sorry it's like a tends to [TS]

01:49:30   be type thing but not fun for the really [TS]

01:49:32   skinny tires yeah it's a commuter bike I [TS]

01:49:34   have some issues with it their fenders [TS]

01:49:37   are pretty low quality on both of the [TS]

01:49:40   bikes and they rattle a little bit and [TS]

01:49:41   even even when they're tightened and [TS]

01:49:43   everything the fenders are also slightly [TS]

01:49:45   asymmetrical which is I can't tell if [TS]

01:49:47   it's intentional or not like they look [TS]

01:49:49   just kind of crooked so I'm probably [TS]

01:49:51   gonna remove the fenders because they [TS]

01:49:52   just kind of are annoying me and and I [TS]

01:49:54   think in retrospect this was a bad [TS]

01:49:56   choice for a beach town because it has [TS]

01:49:59   these really skinny [TS]

01:50:00   high pressure tires and while that might [TS]

01:50:03   be great [TS]

01:50:04   a well paved road when you're commuting [TS]

01:50:06   to work I guess there's a reason why [TS]

01:50:09   every other bike I pass in the beach [TS]

01:50:11   town has these like 2 inch wide cruiser [TS]

01:50:14   tires like there's a reason for that and [TS]

01:50:17   and so when you're riding along these [TS]

01:50:19   walks that are all I think the old [TS]

01:50:21   concrete you know it's like it's like [TS]

01:50:22   riding on an old sidewalk so you know [TS]

01:50:24   you're going bump a bump a bump a bump [TS]

01:50:25   like as you go like you just hit you're [TS]

01:50:27   feeling every bump and and on these [TS]

01:50:28   tires you feel it a lot so I'm actually [TS]

01:50:30   I think I might go to the bike guy in [TS]

01:50:33   town and see if he can like see if he [TS]

01:50:35   has any larger tires that would still [TS]

01:50:37   fit these rims did I make it too big of [TS]

01:50:39   a project but and the seat is like [TS]

01:50:42   sitting on a rock like they call it the [TS]

01:50:46   priority comfort seat or saddle I think [TS]

01:50:48   they call them bike people call them [TS]

01:50:49   saddles for some reason I don't know [TS]

01:50:51   what part of this is comfortable exactly [TS]

01:50:53   but it's certainly not the part that my [TS]

01:50:55   butt is sitting on so I have to fix that [TS]

01:50:58   as well fortunately as an easy fix [TS]

01:50:59   there's a lot make sure you get a [TS]

01:51:00   prostate friendly one I was not aware [TS]

01:51:03   there was a difference the one you have [TS]

01:51:05   is like you know you're distinguished by [TS]

01:51:08   like there being a big split in the [TS]

01:51:09   middle you're like why is this seat [TS]

01:51:10   split in half yeah yeah it has like a [TS]

01:51:13   little hole in the middle right so [TS]

01:51:15   sometimes they just give a suggestion of [TS]

01:51:17   a crease there which I feel like doesn't [TS]

01:51:19   help and sometimes there's actually an [TS]

01:51:21   air gap there but anyway you want [TS]

01:51:23   something like that [TS]

01:51:24   okay good noted so I so I have that you [TS]

01:51:27   probably you probably want for you're [TS]

01:51:28   sensitive to see like a gel seat or some [TS]

01:51:30   other thing that's squishy yeah like [TS]

01:51:31   like the the the old rusted-out mountain [TS]

01:51:34   bike I thought I was riding here [TS]

01:51:35   beforehand that only technically has [TS]

01:51:36   like three gears left if it's 21 [TS]

01:51:38   that one has like an aftermarket gel [TS]

01:51:40   seat on it and that that was always fine [TS]

01:51:42   for me so I mean I heard someone on [TS]

01:51:44   Amazon that was well reviewed we'll see [TS]

01:51:46   how it goes when it gets here in three [TS]

01:51:48   years [TS]

01:51:48   because thanks here from Amazon is [TS]

01:51:50   tricky anyway so you know replacing to [TS]

01:51:53   see that otherwise it's very nice I [TS]

01:51:54   really love disc brakes this is my first [TS]

01:51:58   time I've ever ridden a bike that has [TS]

01:51:59   disc brakes it's such a massive [TS]

01:52:01   difference over the regular like V style [TS]

01:52:03   calipers that go on the rim it stops [TS]

01:52:05   like on a dime it's amazing so big fan [TS]

01:52:09   of that big fan of generally the [TS]

01:52:12   handling of the shape of the bike [TS]

01:52:14   although again the tires are way too [TS]

01:52:15   skinny so I'm going to work on that too [TS]

01:52:17   and the CVT is amazing like it shouldn't [TS]

01:52:22   be as good as it is but it's it's just [TS]

01:52:24   really really nice when one of the [TS]

01:52:27   advances and and there are there are [TS]

01:52:28   gear hubs that do this too you can shift [TS]

01:52:31   at you know even even when you're at a [TS]

01:52:33   stop you can still shift so if you like [TS]

01:52:35   going in a high gear have to stop really [TS]

01:52:38   fast and don't time it like you know [TS]

01:52:40   shit'll be back down doesn't matter just [TS]

01:52:41   twist the handle you're in the low gear [TS]

01:52:42   you just go because it's the CVT and [TS]

01:52:45   because you can just kind of twist as [TS]

01:52:46   often as you like on that gear and any [TS]

01:52:48   interval you like I find myself shifting [TS]

01:52:51   way more than I wouldn't are on a [TS]

01:52:53   derailleur style bike I wouldn't say [TS]

01:52:55   it's necessary like I'd be fine with a [TS]

01:52:57   geared setup or even with a fixed gear [TS]

01:52:59   for most of the time I ride here but [TS]

01:53:01   it's really nice to have this that way [TS]

01:53:03   you can like you know if I'm slowing [TS]

01:53:04   down for a turn or something I I guess [TS]

01:53:06   kind of you know kind of automatically [TS]

01:53:08   kind of started you know going into the [TS]

01:53:10   lower gears and then moving back out as [TS]

01:53:11   I go [TS]

01:53:12   like as I pedals going back up it's [TS]

01:53:14   really cool actually sure you do rev [TS]

01:53:16   matching yeah for the corner [TS]

01:53:20   flip the pedal literally yeah so anyway [TS]

01:53:24   it was probably not the best bike to get [TS]

01:53:26   for the beach because of it's incredibly [TS]

01:53:28   hard ride that's obviously designed for [TS]

01:53:30   smooth roads and not ya know shot it's [TS]

01:53:34   it seems like shocks are passe in fancy [TS]

01:53:37   bikes it's like nobody wants to build [TS]

01:53:38   shocks anymore well for mountain bikes [TS]

01:53:40   you need them or anything that's not not [TS]

01:53:41   uneven terrain you need it for not for [TS]

01:53:44   good not just for comfort but also for [TS]

01:53:45   control I also it's been so since we [TS]

01:53:48   recorded I also got curious about sand [TS]

01:53:51   bikes or fat bikes as bike people seem [TS]

01:53:53   to call them the ones that have like [TS]

01:53:55   five inch wide giant sand tires those [TS]

01:53:58   you occasionally see those around here [TS]

01:54:00   and I thought that could be interesting [TS]

01:54:03   then I could ride past the crazy point [TS]

01:54:05   of woods fence and I could expand my [TS]

01:54:07   horizons into in the directions so I [TS]

01:54:09   could like I had to get more distance if [TS]

01:54:10   I can ride on the sand [TS]

01:54:12   so I spent since we last recorded about [TS]

01:54:15   two weeks ago I spent this time [TS]

01:54:17   researching fat bikes and you know and [TS]

01:54:20   try looking around for places that I [TS]

01:54:22   could maybe rent one or try one and it [TS]

01:54:25   wasn't until about two days ago that I [TS]

01:54:28   learned that my neighbor has one and he [TS]

01:54:29   let me borrow it and [TS]

01:54:31   showed me how to use it on the sand and [TS]

01:54:33   how do you ever ridden on sand [TS]

01:54:35   I've run on saying you were run on sand [TS]

01:54:38   yeah that's not fun either I knew it [TS]

01:54:40   would be challenging [TS]

01:54:41   I did not realize to what degree it will [TS]

01:54:45   be challenging so I get out there and [TS]

01:54:47   this is like it's a perfect setup like [TS]

01:54:48   it's pretty low tide he's showing me [TS]

01:54:50   exactly where on the sand to ride like [TS]

01:54:52   so it's like optionally pat optimally [TS]

01:54:54   packed down slightly damp but not like [TS]

01:54:57   super wet sand you know so you're and [TS]

01:54:59   and the bike has like these large 5-inch [TS]

01:55:01   low-pressure tires so you know so it's [TS]

01:55:04   it's the ideal setup really like it was [TS]

01:55:06   it would be hard to find a better setup [TS]

01:55:08   than the setup I had and so I first [TS]

01:55:11   started going and for about the first 30 [TS]

01:55:14   feet or so I'm like this is easy what [TS]

01:55:17   was I what was I so concerned about this [TS]

01:55:19   is this is nothing and then after you [TS]

01:55:23   know as you keep going you're like wait [TS]

01:55:24   a minute like I have to maintain this [TS]

01:55:27   level of resistance like indefinitely [TS]

01:55:30   well got like it's not like a quick hill [TS]

01:55:33   where like you go up the hill and then [TS]

01:55:34   you're flat for a while then you can [TS]

01:55:35   coast for a while you have like low [TS]

01:55:36   resistance no it's like to keep moving [TS]

01:55:38   it's like you're going up a pretty [TS]

01:55:40   sizable hill all the time so I I said [TS]

01:55:47   something like two or three hundred feet [TS]

01:55:49   before like are done like I can't do any [TS]

01:55:51   more turn around [TS]

01:55:54   but back to him I'm like alright thanks [TS]

01:55:56   like this this ride is either gonna save [TS]

01:55:59   me a $50 rental fee from the place in [TS]

01:56:02   town or it's gonna cost me $1,000 to buy [TS]

01:56:05   one of these bikes for the first time [TS]

01:56:07   ever I didn't buy the thing you're now [TS]

01:56:11   you're researching isse and bikes though [TS]

01:56:12   of course I research the Eastern bikes [TS]

01:56:14   but because those are only about 1,500 [TS]

01:56:17   but but I only honestly that's not [TS]

01:56:20   compared to the price of ebikes and the [TS]

01:56:23   price of sand bikes that actually is a [TS]

01:56:25   really good it's but anyway the my issue [TS]

01:56:27   with those is like what's the point then [TS]

01:56:29   like the whole reason I'm riding is for [TS]

01:56:32   exercise and and getting myself you know [TS]

01:56:34   like the challenge of it and you know [TS]

01:56:37   the the e bike thing I think makes more [TS]

01:56:40   sense if you're doing like commuting or [TS]

01:56:43   like if they're like [TS]

01:56:45   some other reasons why you're doing this [TS]

01:56:46   besides just like the exercise value [TS]

01:56:48   like if you were a delivery person using [TS]

01:56:51   using a bike or if you're if you had to [TS]

01:56:53   ride between these towns and you had to [TS]

01:56:55   go on the beach - right between the [TS]

01:56:56   certain ones like for your job or [TS]

01:56:59   something that'd be a different story [TS]

01:57:01   then that would make more sense but for [TS]

01:57:02   my purposes as like this is mainly for [TS]

01:57:04   exercise any bike is it kind of misses [TS]

01:57:07   the point I think well what about it [TS]

01:57:08   exploring this at this point that you [TS]

01:57:10   want to explore beyond a certain point [TS]

01:57:12   that you hadn't gone beyond before you [TS]

01:57:13   want to find in new places to get Lyme [TS]

01:57:15   disease you should - let you go [TS]

01:57:18   exploring in areas where previously you [TS]

01:57:20   would've been too tired to get to I [TS]

01:57:22   think a more responsible thing to do is [TS]

01:57:25   to just keep biking until I'm strong [TS]

01:57:28   enough to do the sand bike thing that [TS]

01:57:31   like that is that is what I should do it [TS]

01:57:33   probably isn't what I will do but that's [TS]

01:57:35   what I should do just walk you just walk [TS]

01:57:38   on the beach walk in the sand feet work [TS]

01:57:40   really well no that's what are you crazy [TS]

01:57:44   so something somehow we go up and down [TS]

01:57:47   the beaches on Long Island we have no [TS]

01:57:48   bikes just make sure you bring shoes [TS]

01:57:51   sand is hot it is pretty frustrating [TS]

01:57:54   there like when like you will [TS]

01:57:55   occasionally see somebody with a nice [TS]

01:57:57   and bike drive-by as you're on the beach [TS]

01:57:59   you're like dammit [TS]

01:58:02   yeah so anyway what I ideally still want [TS]

01:58:06   is basically what I mentioned last time [TS]

01:58:08   was my high-end option the the bud Nets [TS]

01:58:10   bicycle the model 3 or number 3 I keep [TS]

01:58:14   getting their names with Tesla's names [TS]

01:58:16   because they have some the begin with [TS]

01:58:17   model and something begin with number [TS]

01:58:18   anyway I want the button the button it's [TS]

01:58:20   number three and I will probably end up [TS]

01:58:23   ordering one of those for home and then [TS]

01:58:26   maybe next summer I'll get one for the [TS]

01:58:27   beach but we'll see because the summer [TS]

01:58:29   is almost over and you can't get them [TS]

01:58:30   like there they're made button they're [TS]

01:58:32   made to order so like it takes a few [TS]

01:58:34   weeks to get them so it's too late for [TS]

01:58:35   this summer anyway but I think that's [TS]

01:58:38   what I want here is basically a high [TS]

01:58:41   SPECT bike that also has wide tires but [TS]

01:58:45   not quite sand tire wide where are you [TS]

01:58:48   gonna ride it at home on streets are [TS]

01:58:50   there like paths you can go on mostly [TS]

01:58:52   streets but there also is I live near [TS]

01:58:55   the old Croton Aqueduct Trail [TS]

01:58:58   I would probably write on that lots of [TS]

01:58:59   people do there's also nearby bike [TS]

01:59:01   trails then I have to become like the [TS]

01:59:03   person who like puts their bike on their [TS]

01:59:05   car and brings it places and that I [TS]

01:59:07   might get there sometime I don't know [TS]

01:59:09   but I don't know anything about that [TS]

01:59:11   world yet and so I'm a little resistant [TS]

01:59:12   to that but you know what one thing I [TS]

01:59:16   think I might get into this is that this [TS]

01:59:18   is actually I've only told you about two [TS]

01:59:20   of the three bikes that I've bought [TS]

01:59:22   since we last talked [TS]

01:59:23   the third one word was the tiny version [TS]

01:59:27   which I bought for my son because they [TS]

01:59:29   also sell priority also sells the [TS]

01:59:31   priority start which is a tiny belt [TS]

01:59:35   drive fancy bike made by hipsters in New [TS]

01:59:37   York I'm sure I'm sure he appreciates [TS]

01:59:39   the all the nuances of this very [TS]

01:59:42   expensive fancy bike it first of all [TS]

01:59:44   compared to other well rated kids bikes [TS]

01:59:47   it was surprisingly inexpensive like [TS]

01:59:50   every that the bike that everyone else [TS]

01:59:52   told us to get which was the isla our [TS]

01:59:54   Islip bike I love Mike whatever however [TS]

01:59:56   you pronounce that that's like 400 bucks [TS]

01:59:58   this was too [TS]

01:59:58   this was too [TS]

02:00:00   fifteen so compared to those that's [TS]

02:00:02   actually not that bad [TS]

02:00:03   I could also get this quickly that's [TS]

02:00:05   pretty cheap yeah if I go this is real I [TS]

02:00:07   mean the problem with these kids lice is [TS]

02:00:09   a throw away by clay he's gonna grow [TS]

02:00:10   three inches in the next two weeks and [TS]

02:00:12   it's like up now he's too big for that [TS]

02:00:13   bike cuz you know it's like kids clothes [TS]

02:00:15   yeah well fortunately he got we got the [TS]

02:00:17   16 inch size and he is like he's barely [TS]

02:00:20   tall enough to make it now so that way [TS]

02:00:21   he has the most time to actually use it [TS]

02:00:23   before he gets too tall for it and it's [TS]

02:00:25   a pretty well SPECT bike like it has it [TS]

02:00:28   has dual hand brakes like you know real [TS]

02:00:30   vibrate on both wheels not a coaster [TS]

02:00:32   brake and it has the carbon belt instead [TS]

02:00:35   of the chain cuz once he saw tips and [TS]

02:00:37   then my and we and he have he asked [TS]

02:00:39   about why those were there and I [TS]

02:00:40   explained why it's superior and so of [TS]

02:00:43   course he wanted one so now we have [TS]

02:00:47   three people riding priority of bikes we [TS]

02:00:48   he isn't quite gotten it yet but I bet [TS]

02:00:51   within the next few days he'll he'll be [TS]

02:00:52   pretty good on it [TS]

02:00:53   damn the training wheels on or off off [TS]

02:00:58   two minutes another thing you can [TS]

02:01:00   periscope I don't learn to ride just [TS]

02:01:02   just run but run behind him and hold the [TS]

02:01:04   seat and you're like oh that's how you [TS]

02:01:05   do it yeah so that's it we have being [TS]

02:01:06   Tiferet we're doing that today earlier [TS]

02:01:08   he it was this is the very first time I [TS]

02:01:10   tried it so we got it we got slightly [TS]

02:01:11   far but we didn't we didn't quite get [TS]

02:01:14   far enough today to float let go for [TS]

02:01:16   more than a second or two so and well I [TS]

02:01:18   think we'll privacy over the next few [TS]

02:01:19   days and probably probably by next week [TS]

02:01:21   he could be riding a bike I was mostly [TS]

02:01:24   joking that's not how you should have [TS]

02:01:25   your head do that stuff the way my [TS]

02:01:26   father did it to me but that's like the [TS]

02:01:28   worst way to do the way it should be [TS]

02:01:29   done is the way you're already doing it [TS]

02:01:30   you give him the scoot bike so he [TS]

02:01:31   learned set of balance and he'll do it [TS]

02:01:33   on his own yeah so he's I think he's [TS]

02:01:35   basically all study we just used this [TS]

02:01:37   like a scoot bike but then picks both [TS]

02:01:38   his feet up and puts them on the pedals [TS]

02:01:40   instead of just holding them up in the [TS]