The Accidental Tech Podcast

237: You Are Not a Datacenter


00:00:00   so someone trying to spell took us there [TS]

00:00:01   spelling at tu u qu a s it is not [TS]

00:00:04   derived from Spanish - quoi so that is [TS]

00:00:07   not the way you are in wrong region of [TS]

00:00:10   the world so the origin of that that's [TS]

00:00:13   magnificent [TS]

00:00:14   I love Sean P wall to the chat earlier [TS]

00:00:15   people who truck equals trucks trucks [TS]

00:00:23   you already established that yes like me [TS]

00:00:26   the stupid Jeep Cherokee with would you [TS]

00:00:28   stop with that lowered and big it's so [TS]

00:00:30   ridiculous it's the worst thing ever did [TS]

00:00:33   I tell the story on neutral I'm it's [TS]

00:00:35   it's December in Connecticut and for [TS]

00:00:38   those who are not aware Connecticut [TS]

00:00:39   doesn't believe in salting the roads [TS]

00:00:40   they believe in sanding the roads so the [TS]

00:00:42   entire state is just one big sandbox [TS]

00:00:44   it's December it's Connecticut and [TS]

00:00:46   there's sand everywhere and we're at a [TS]

00:00:48   tea you know so we have to make either [TS]

00:00:50   left or right it's my friends srt8 Grand [TS]

00:00:53   Cherokee and similarly to the Eclipse [TS]

00:00:55   turbo that we were talking about earlier [TS]

00:00:57   he looks over and says you holding on [TS]

00:00:58   I'm like what are you talking about [TS]

00:00:59   we're about to do a 90 degree turn why [TS]

00:01:01   would I need to hold on and I was like [TS]

00:01:03   yeah okay sure [TS]

00:01:04   next thing I know he stands on the gas [TS]

00:01:06   and we make this 90-degree turn like we [TS]

00:01:09   were getting shot out of a cannon it was [TS]

00:01:10   the most amazing thing in the world [TS]

00:01:12   oh no fast car fine but like it's like [TS]

00:01:15   let's make something that is not [TS]

00:01:17   designed to go fast but let's make it go [TS]

00:01:18   fast you do is the perverse thing and [TS]

00:01:21   that but but in the end it's an [TS]

00:01:23   abomination it's just like let's take a [TS]

00:01:25   chihuahua but make it a pack animal like [TS]

00:01:28   well we'll have it carry all our [TS]

00:01:30   suitcases down to the Grand Canyon and [TS]

00:01:31   if you could do that it's like wow [TS]

00:01:32   that's the world's strongest Chihuahua [TS]

00:01:33   but like that is the wrong tool for the [TS]

00:01:35   job that is a terrible analogy I am [TS]

00:01:38   disappointed you are usually so good at [TS]

00:01:41   coming up with decent analogies in a way [TS]

00:01:43   that I am terrible it was reversed [TS]

00:01:45   because I'm taking this small thing and [TS]

00:01:46   making it big but you're it's like [TS]

00:01:47   making a hippo dance like that's what [TS]

00:01:49   you're trying to do and it's just like [TS]

00:01:50   why would you do that [TS]

00:01:52   there's perfectly good cars that are not [TS]

00:01:53   big tall tippy gross things made to go [TS]

00:01:56   off-road that are they want to go fast [TS]

00:01:58   the Jeep Cherokee doesn't want to go [TS]

00:02:00   fast what are you doing you're the only [TS]

00:02:02   one they lower they take a car with a [TS]

00:02:03   good ground clearance something you [TS]

00:02:04   lower it like what are you even doing [TS]

00:02:06   like why you're just just running a car [TS]

00:02:09   no it's porque no los dos y can't you [TS]

00:02:11   have both why can't you have this [TS]

00:02:12   convene [TS]

00:02:13   car that because you can't because the [TS]

00:02:15   things like 17th behind rolls over you [TS]

00:02:17   can't no it doesn't I just explained to [TS]

00:02:19   you what we did a 90 degree turn at like [TS]

00:02:21   30 you can Lord as much as you want the [TS]

00:02:23   center of gravity of that car is not the [TS]

00:02:25   same as the center of gravity of a [TS]

00:02:26   sports car that's down low so if [TS]

00:02:28   somebody offered you a Porsche what's [TS]

00:02:31   it's not the came and the Cayenne the [TS]

00:02:34   client and then the can is the even [TS]

00:02:36   bigger one I would sell it and use that [TS]

00:02:37   money to probably not buy a better car [TS]

00:02:39   but if if I was forced to if I was for [TS]

00:02:41   as I said you have to get a car I would [TS]

00:02:42   immediately sell it and I would use that [TS]

00:02:44   money to buy a million other cars that [TS]

00:02:46   I'd rather have why why do you have hate [TS]

00:02:48   fun John why do you hate fun in the next [TS]

00:02:51   suggest a monster-truck Ferrari I can't [TS]

00:02:53   have both looks like a Ferrari but also [TS]

00:02:55   you can crush cars into this know what [TS]

00:02:58   have you done and a monster-truck [TS]

00:03:00   Ferrari would still look cooler than [TS]

00:03:02   that Jeep I hate you so much of yet I [TS]

00:03:07   don't so we should get this show started [TS]

00:03:12   and as per usual we have to start with [TS]

00:03:15   some follow-up and you know here's the [TS]

00:03:18   thing you guys we've been doing the show [TS]

00:03:19   for what almost three and a half years [TS]

00:03:22   now is that right because it was 2013 if [TS]

00:03:24   I'm not mistaken and and you know I knew [TS]

00:03:27   both of you guys pretty well when we [TS]

00:03:29   started I knew Marco a little bit better [TS]

00:03:30   but I knew both you guys pretty well but [TS]

00:03:32   had you told me in in 2013 yeah you know [TS]

00:03:35   you're still gonna be doing this in 2017 [TS]

00:03:37   I'd probably been like that's surprising [TS]

00:03:39   but okay I'll believe it if you had told [TS]

00:03:41   me in 2013 well you will have multiple [TS]

00:03:43   episodes to follow up about Marcos [TS]

00:03:45   hindquarters I'm not sure I would I [TS]

00:03:48   believe that a horse I don't know if he [TS]

00:03:50   has hindquarters exactly Marco's do she [TS]

00:03:56   great we keep riffing Fanny means [TS]

00:04:03   something different in the UK so you [TS]

00:04:05   really did grow up it you know in a [TS]

00:04:06   mixed environment if you notice I'm very [TS]

00:04:08   proud of you John touch is derived from [TS]

00:04:10   that I think it's all just you know well [TS]

00:04:12   anyway so let's talk about Marcos took [TS]

00:04:14   us why don't you tell me about whether [TS]

00:04:17   cushion saddles are good or bad and I [TS]

00:04:19   don't know if I'm talking to Marco or [TS]

00:04:21   John [TS]

00:04:23   Oishi me who says cushion saddles are [TS]

00:04:26   bad you can tell it's a bike person when [TS]

00:04:28   they say saddles because yes call them [TS]

00:04:31   seats but but by kiss this marks sake [TS]

00:04:35   that's a good dogs mark anyway he says [TS]

00:04:41   when you sit on a large cushioned seat [TS]

00:04:43   the cushioning material insurers [TS]

00:04:44   pressure is placed over the entire [TS]

00:04:45   region it goes into the nooks and [TS]

00:04:47   crannies between you and thighs and [TS]

00:04:49   finds all the sensitive areas since your [TS]

00:04:51   maximum pressure yes what do you want [TS]

00:04:53   instead and this was repeated this was [TS]

00:04:54   repeated many many yes this is repeated [TS]

00:04:57   by many people who sent in feedback why [TS]

00:04:59   just focus on his representative what [TS]

00:05:00   you want instead is contact at your sit [TS]

00:05:02   bones and nothing else did you know you [TS]

00:05:04   have sit bones if you read the dozens of [TS]

00:05:06   emails that talk about sit bones that [TS]

00:05:08   were sent to our show you would know [TS]

00:05:09   yeah I was a term the first person was [TS]

00:05:12   making up but then we got multiple [TS]

00:05:14   people talking about sit bones [TS]

00:05:16   apparently I mean I haven't done any [TS]

00:05:18   more medical research on this topic but [TS]

00:05:19   multiple people seem to think these are [TS]

00:05:21   real things yeah and so he says with [TS]

00:05:23   some honesty soreness at the contact [TS]

00:05:25   areas ideally the sit bones is to be [TS]

00:05:27   expected for the new cyclist by the way [TS]

00:05:29   as many people wrote in to tell Marco [TS]

00:05:31   that does not buy cast as if he didn't [TS]

00:05:32   know that rest assured he knows like he [TS]

00:05:44   likens it to the soreness in your feet [TS]

00:05:45   when you first start using a standing [TS]

00:05:46   standing desk numbness is much more [TS]

00:05:48   ominous sign it means pressure is being [TS]

00:05:50   placed on the wrong spots cutting off [TS]

00:05:51   blood supply oppressing unnerve so the [TS]

00:05:53   consensus seems to be padding aside what [TS]

00:05:57   you want is most of your weight to be on [TS]

00:05:59   the sit bones and not sort of distribute [TS]

00:06:03   it across all the different parts [TS]

00:06:05   because then no matter how you sit it's [TS]

00:06:06   like squishing all your soft tissues [TS]

00:06:08   together and cutting off blood flow [TS]

00:06:10   whereas apparently I'm guessing there is [TS]

00:06:11   a path from the sit bones to you know [TS]

00:06:13   it's not like jacking a car put it that [TS]

00:06:15   way when you jack up a car you put it on [TS]

00:06:17   the jack points you notice take the jack [TS]

00:06:18   and put in a nice overview part [TS]

00:06:19   underneath your car and start cranking [TS]

00:06:21   it because bad things will happen so [TS]

00:06:23   anyway I debated even putting this in [TS]

00:06:25   here [TS]

00:06:26   but I feel like this is good information [TS]

00:06:27   for other people who are getting into [TS]

00:06:30   bikes are not into bikes and are warned [TS]

00:06:32   wandering around bike seat stuff the [TS]

00:06:34   there was very [TS]

00:06:35   consensus that it's all about you and [TS]

00:06:36   your sit bones and then making good [TS]

00:06:38   contact and that not having pressure in [TS]

00:06:40   other places so there you go thank you [TS]

00:06:43   for all the bike dust for your feedback [TS]

00:06:44   about my James d'amour sounds like [TS]

00:06:48   they're like yeah well it sounds like [TS]

00:06:49   they're uh they're prejudiced against [TS]

00:06:51   bikes they're Bicas nice [TS]

00:06:56   speaking of jacking up cars it always [TS]

00:06:58   drove me nuts because anytime I wanted [TS]

00:07:00   to jack up I think was the Subaru I [TS]

00:07:01   don't think it was a BMW the official [TS]

00:07:03   Jack point for the rear of the car was [TS]

00:07:06   to Jack up by the rear differential [TS]

00:07:08   which just seems like a terrible idea to [TS]

00:07:11   me they were like dude just put it onto [TS]

00:07:13   the rear pumpkin and go to town he'll be [TS]

00:07:15   fine [TS]

00:07:15   just seems banana really a pretty strong [TS]

00:07:17   part of the Karman if I personally they [TS]

00:07:19   know what they're talking about they [TS]

00:07:19   they made the car they're gonna I know [TS]

00:07:21   one would think but it just struck me [TS]

00:07:23   he's wrong anyway Moe Rubin Saul wants [TS]

00:07:26   to talk about Backblaze backup limits [TS]

00:07:28   and also wants to know how do folks [TS]

00:07:30   backup their applications folder because [TS]

00:07:32   Backblaze exempts it and restructuring [TS]

00:07:35   it would be hell I don't [TS]

00:07:38   or at least III don't think I would want [TS]

00:07:39   to because if I wanted to back [TS]

00:07:42   everything up in my Applications folder [TS]

00:07:44   I would rather just recreate it by hand [TS]

00:07:47   because I don't think I want any of the [TS]

00:07:49   stuff in there in fact one of the one of [TS]

00:07:51   my favorite blog posts that I wrote [TS]

00:07:52   which is mostly for myself as kind of a [TS]

00:07:54   long-term memory but it's it's talking [TS]

00:07:57   about here's all the things I would [TS]

00:07:58   install when creating or when when [TS]

00:08:00   reinstalling a new Mac or create a [TS]

00:08:02   starting a new Mac so I used that for [TS]

00:08:04   the MacBook adorable I used it for the [TS]

00:08:06   5k iMac I I don't use migration [TS]

00:08:09   assistant generally speaking because [TS]

00:08:10   even though it's unlike the Windows when [TS]

00:08:12   I was using Windows and this is probably [TS]

00:08:14   Markos era as well that you had to [TS]

00:08:16   reinstall everything we had to just [TS]

00:08:18   destroy everything and start a new every [TS]

00:08:20   six months to clear out all the cruft [TS]

00:08:22   that just magically appears you know Mac [TS]

00:08:25   OS is not like that but well I got a new [TS]

00:08:27   machine yeah it's time yeah I also don't [TS]

00:08:30   ever backup my Applications folder [TS]

00:08:31   unless it's like for you know from like [TS]

00:08:34   automatically doing it from things like [TS]

00:08:35   time machine or a disk clone I think I [TS]

00:08:37   think the main advantage to backing up [TS]

00:08:39   your Applications folder is if you're [TS]

00:08:41   literally just cloning your entire disk [TS]

00:08:43   and if you want fast recovery after a [TS]

00:08:46   disaster and and that there is [TS]

00:08:48   definitely a role for that you should [TS]

00:08:50   have some like one of your backup [TS]

00:08:52   methods should be like a straight-up [TS]

00:08:54   copy of your entire disk because then if [TS]

00:08:57   you do have a disk failure you can you [TS]

00:08:58   can restore that on to a new disk or a [TS]

00:09:00   new computer very quickly compared to [TS]

00:09:03   downloading things off of an internet [TS]

00:09:04   backup an Internet backup is like a last [TS]

00:09:07   resort because it is you know slow or it [TS]

00:09:09   goes over the internet you might have [TS]

00:09:11   limited upstream so you might not want [TS]

00:09:13   to upload every single thing you you [TS]

00:09:14   have on your disk if you can you know [TS]

00:09:16   easily get it through other means so [TS]

00:09:18   there is definitely a role for including [TS]

00:09:21   applications folders in backups but I [TS]

00:09:23   totally see why it's not included in [TS]

00:09:26   Backblaze as cloud backup by default [TS]

00:09:28   again we should clarity should disclose [TS]

00:09:30   the back place is a frequent sponsor of [TS]

00:09:32   our show but I'm really I'm so I'm [TS]

00:09:35   saying this probably to defend them but [TS]

00:09:36   also you know you know not because they [TS]

00:09:38   are paying us sometimes but simply [TS]

00:09:42   because I think that it makes sense to [TS]

00:09:44   exclude that for a cloud backup because [TS]

00:09:45   the the purpose of cloud backup was like [TS]

00:09:47   last resort wear and applications [TS]

00:09:50   folders are really easy to reconstruct [TS]

00:09:51   with just time you know you're not [TS]

00:09:54   permanently losing data there you're [TS]

00:09:55   just losing some time to redownload [TS]

00:09:57   applications reinstall applications and [TS]

00:09:58   everything but yeah for a full disk copy [TS]

00:10:02   method like Time Machine or super duper [TS]

00:10:04   Carbon Copy clone or things like that [TS]

00:10:05   any kind of disk cloning method it makes [TS]

00:10:08   sense to include that just for speed of [TS]

00:10:09   recovery so we talked about this a long [TS]

00:10:12   time ago one of our earlier shows about [TS]

00:10:13   backups I think it was when we were all [TS]

00:10:15   just started using back plays actually [TS]

00:10:17   before maybe they sponsored the show it [TS]

00:10:18   was this it was discussing like the the [TS]

00:10:21   fact the back plays it excludes a lot of [TS]

00:10:23   stuff and they had like a hard-coded [TS]

00:10:25   they have a thinking where you can say [TS]

00:10:26   what you want exclude but they have a [TS]

00:10:27   hard-coded exclude list and it excluded [TS]

00:10:30   stuff that I wanted backed up so at that [TS]

00:10:32   time I hacked up whatever XML file they [TS]

00:10:34   had buried somewhere in the slash [TS]

00:10:36   library folder not the home guard to run [TS]

00:10:38   but the one at the top level the disk [TS]

00:10:39   there was some XML file somewhere that [TS]

00:10:41   you could mess with to make it back up [TS]

00:10:43   things that are in the quote unquote [TS]

00:10:44   hard quote coded exclude this and I [TS]

00:10:50   think that technique still works and [TS]

00:10:53   it's just as unsupported and dangerous [TS]

00:10:56   and do it your own risk but it is the [TS]

00:10:58   thing that I do frequently that file [TS]

00:10:59   moves around and [TS]

00:11:00   Changez or whatever but I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:11:02   it's still working for me so basically [TS]

00:11:05   you can make back plays back up stuff [TS]

00:11:07   that it says it doesn't want to back up [TS]

00:11:09   if you're willing to live a little [TS]

00:11:11   dangerously but like Marcus that you [TS]

00:11:14   like you should just be though sometimes [TS]

00:11:16   these applications like it's annoying [TS]

00:11:18   but none of your data is there you [TS]

00:11:20   didn't write those applications right [TS]

00:11:22   and these days the chances are very good [TS]

00:11:26   that you have some reasonably convenient [TS]

00:11:28   way to get those applications back the [TS]

00:11:30   company you bought it from has some [TS]

00:11:31   record that you bought it they can let [TS]

00:11:32   you read download it even if it came on [TS]

00:11:34   plastic disk hoping you're saving those [TS]

00:11:36   plastic discs somewhere make you're not [TS]

00:11:38   saving them I hoping you can contact the [TS]

00:11:39   vendor that you bought it from and say [TS]

00:11:41   hey my house burned down [TS]

00:11:41   I lost my plastic discs can I get the [TS]

00:11:43   software back but realistically speaking [TS]

00:11:45   most applications you're gonna want to [TS]

00:11:46   launch these days you have to be able to [TS]

00:11:48   download them some way and if you could [TS]

00:11:50   download them there's probably some [TS]

00:11:51   record on their servers about the fact [TS]

00:11:52   that you own it so it may be annoying [TS]

00:11:55   but like Margo said like if you find [TS]

00:11:56   yourself restoring from an internet [TS]

00:11:58   backup many many things have gone wrong [TS]

00:11:59   and you're probably just so happy that [TS]

00:12:01   you have your precious data preserved in [TS]

00:12:03   any form that you're not you know you're [TS]

00:12:04   gonna be spending like days and days [TS]

00:12:06   possibly weeks restoring anyway so don't [TS]

00:12:08   worry about it but yeah but I but I'd [TS]

00:12:10   visit some limited backups I'm like you [TS]

00:12:11   know what go ahead backup my [TS]

00:12:13   Applications folder why not so CrashPlan [TS]

00:12:16   does have a Native Client for Macs maybe [TS]

00:12:20   so we've gotten a lot of feedback saying [TS]

00:12:23   that the enterprise crash plan client is [TS]

00:12:26   actually native and if you recall one of [TS]

00:12:28   the things that really drives me [TS]

00:12:30   freaking bananas about crash plan as a [TS]

00:12:32   consumer is that it's a a Java based [TS]

00:12:36   cross-platform utter garbage app I guess [TS]

00:12:39   saying Java based in utter garbage is [TS]

00:12:41   redundant but here here we are [TS]

00:12:42   that joke will never stop being funny [TS]

00:12:44   I'm sorry so when he went zero negative [TS]

00:12:46   feedback on it I know I'm surprised so [TS]

00:12:49   anyway so it's there's there's been a [TS]

00:12:53   lot of people coming coming to us saying [TS]

00:12:55   hey the enterprise client is actually [TS]

00:12:57   native so it may not be so bad once you [TS]

00:12:59   do the migration except maybe not so [TS]

00:13:01   fill story wrote in to say to us that he [TS]

00:13:04   just upgraded to crash plan for small [TS]

00:13:06   business which to be fair is not [TS]

00:13:08   necessarily the same as enterprise and [TS]

00:13:09   he said it's the same crappy Java app [TS]

00:13:12   and he said that he was [TS]

00:13:14   only allowed to use version 4.9 which I [TS]

00:13:16   guess is still Java not the enterprise [TS]

00:13:18   version which is six dot backs so tread [TS]

00:13:21   carefully [TS]

00:13:22   I still haven't taken any action on my [TS]

00:13:24   backup strategy yet because I'm [TS]

00:13:25   procrastinating and sticking my head in [TS]

00:13:28   the sand like an ostrich trying to [TS]

00:13:29   pretend that it's not not an issue but [TS]

00:13:31   be wary that that things may not be all [TS]

00:13:34   roses and daffodils in the crash plane [TS]

00:13:38   for small business category I'm [TS]

00:13:41   wondering how you can get if it's [TS]

00:13:43   possible to get that native version even [TS]

00:13:46   if you're a small business customer but [TS]

00:13:47   I've been running the Java version for [TS]

00:13:48   everything I said it's not like it [TS]

00:13:50   doesn't bother me I don't see the [TS]

00:13:51   application I just see the icon in the [TS]

00:13:53   menu bar it's probably using a lot more [TS]

00:13:54   memory and CPU than I want but it has [TS]

00:13:55   pretty good controls about you can tell [TS]

00:13:57   it don't even start doing a backup [TS]

00:13:59   unless the machine has been idle for a [TS]

00:14:01   certain period of time you can always [TS]

00:14:02   stop it if it's in the middle of doing [TS]

00:14:03   something and honestly with a with a Big [TS]

00:14:07   Mac with lots of RAM and an SSD you just [TS]

00:14:09   don't notice it running even though it's [TS]

00:14:11   a bloated java application and you know [TS]

00:14:13   it's probably doing ridiculous things [TS]

00:14:14   and if you bring in fact if ax t monitor [TS]

00:14:15   you may get sad about it but you know [TS]

00:14:18   you can always pause it and tell it not [TS]

00:14:19   to run now and then just do your stuff [TS]

00:14:20   and then let it run when you're away or [TS]

00:14:22   you don't have to see what it's doing to [TS]

00:14:23   your computer fair enough speaking of [TS]

00:14:26   CrashPlan the year is a 5 terabyte [TS]

00:14:29   migration limit which I was not aware of [TS]

00:14:30   so this is a crash plain support article [TS]

00:14:33   entitled migrate your crash plan for [TS]

00:14:35   home account to crash-land for small [TS]

00:14:36   business it's dated a little over a week [TS]

00:14:39   ago and it says that hey your backup do [TS]

00:14:43   my backups continue automatically and [TS]

00:14:46   the backup type cloud backups to [TS]

00:14:47   CrashPlan central CrashPlan central [TS]

00:14:49   being their cloud offering does it [TS]

00:14:51   continue yes except very large backups [TS]

00:14:53   over 5 terabytes and just seconds ago I [TS]

00:14:56   took a look to see how big my latest [TS]

00:14:58   backup was to crash playing central [TS]

00:14:59   would anyone like to guess how big it [TS]

00:15:00   was five point one five point three [TS]

00:15:03   terabytes whoo yeah I'm just under five [TS]

00:15:05   I'm like four point eight or something [TS]

00:15:07   so I'm happy [TS]

00:15:08   I've already already done this [TS]

00:15:09   conversion it already updated your [TS]

00:15:10   client it updated my client to thee it's [TS]

00:15:12   still the Java client but the color [TS]

00:15:14   scheme is different I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:15:15   that's you know interesting so I'm [TS]

00:15:16   running for point nine power whatever [TS]

00:15:17   but yeah just it just continued my [TS]

00:15:19   backups man that's that's mmm I'm [TS]

00:15:23   jealous because apparently I'm good so [TS]

00:15:25   it's not that I can't use this new home [TS]

00:15:27   and business [TS]

00:15:28   or small business thing but apparently [TS]

00:15:30   I'm gonna have to re-up load everything [TS]

00:15:31   all right you contact them and say very [TS]

00:15:35   large backups over five terabytes well [TS]

00:15:37   I'm a little bit can't you just you know [TS]

00:15:42   grandfather me in I'm close like I don't [TS]

00:15:45   know yeah something like that I don't [TS]

00:15:47   know I'm sad hi I need to take action on [TS]

00:15:51   this I just I really don't want to I [TS]

00:15:53   just want it to go away and ignoring it [TS]

00:15:55   does not make it go away but I wish all [TS]

00:15:58   right so arc AR Q versus Backblaze [TS]

00:16:01   versus Claire crash plan on saving Mac [TS]

00:16:04   metadata's so this is something I've [TS]

00:16:06   never paid attention to because I don't [TS]

00:16:08   really care enough even though I [TS]

00:16:09   probably should so as the person who is [TS]

00:16:12   most likely to care about this John why [TS]

00:16:14   don't you tell me about what's going on [TS]

00:16:16   here larger story like maybe two years [TS]

00:16:18   ago I think back when backways was [TS]

00:16:20   starting to come to prominence and arc [TS]

00:16:22   was a lot newer than it is now and one [TS]

00:16:25   of Arc's big selling points was hey we [TS]

00:16:28   back up all your mac metadata like every [TS]

00:16:30   little bit of it all the labels and the [TS]

00:16:32   dates in the comment field and like [TS]

00:16:33   every little weird but the finder flags [TS]

00:16:36   and all the stuff we back it all up and [TS]

00:16:38   there's another program I'm not sure if [TS]

00:16:40   it's associated with the arc if it's [TS]

00:16:41   written by the same guy or if it's [TS]

00:16:42   totally independent but called back up [TS]

00:16:44   bouncer that was trying to say if you [TS]

00:16:48   make a backup and restore the backup is [TS]

00:16:50   it exactly like it was before down to [TS]

00:16:52   the bit down to every single piece of [TS]

00:16:54   metadata right then you could care more [TS]

00:16:57   or less about different things at [TS]

00:16:58   various times people who use like labels [TS]

00:17:00   like Mac Mac OS is labels where you can [TS]

00:17:03   label your items in the finder with [TS]

00:17:05   different colors and give the colors [TS]

00:17:06   names and stuff like that if you use [TS]

00:17:08   that extensively or tags you know that [TS]

00:17:11   is the expansion of labels like if you [TS]

00:17:13   use that stuff extensively and you do a [TS]

00:17:16   backup but like that's how you organize [TS]

00:17:17   your files right and you do a backup and [TS]

00:17:19   you're restoring all that stuff is gone [TS]

00:17:20   that is essentially data loss for you so [TS]

00:17:23   you care a lot about that that metadata [TS]

00:17:25   back up bouncer is you know down to the [TS]

00:17:28   bit thing I remember like super duper [TS]

00:17:29   would fail on backup bouncer because it [TS]

00:17:31   didn't restore permissions on things [TS]

00:17:34   that didn't have the the rights to [TS]

00:17:37   restore like it changed the ownership or [TS]

00:17:39   changed some you know like [TS]

00:17:41   it's very picky about exactly what you [TS]

00:17:43   want to have but the general line from [TS]

00:17:46   these companies about why their products [TS]

00:17:47   don't do well on backup bouncer is like [TS]

00:17:51   well we are not a bit for bit imaging [TS]

00:17:53   system we are data backup solution so [TS]

00:17:57   you're not gonna get your discs back but [TS]

00:17:59   for bid exactly how it was you're just [TS]

00:18:00   gonna get your data back CrashPlan [TS]

00:18:02   reportedly backs up metadata better than [TS]

00:18:05   back plays back plays drops almost all [TS]

00:18:07   of it on the floor and just backs up [TS]

00:18:09   your data crash mine does better arc is [TS]

00:18:12   apparently 100% like it'll get every [TS]

00:18:13   single little bit because that's you [TS]

00:18:14   know that's it's the bespoke artisanal [TS]

00:18:18   handcrafted backup program just for mac [TS]

00:18:19   users and a lot of people ask me how if [TS]

00:18:21   you know that since I love all my [TS]

00:18:23   metadata and everything well one of the [TS]

00:18:24   reason is I don't use labels and tags a [TS]

00:18:27   is because I know how they're [TS]

00:18:27   implemented in its gross but B I fear [TS]

00:18:30   how they how that stuff will if that [TS]

00:18:33   stuff will survive so I wouldn't want to [TS]

00:18:35   rely on it and have it get lost in some [TS]

00:18:38   kind of backup thing and like we said [TS]

00:18:40   before online backup is absolutely the [TS]

00:18:42   last resort so it being the lowest [TS]

00:18:44   fidelity backup I have SuperDuper being [TS]

00:18:46   the highest fidelity where it's pretty [TS]

00:18:47   much exactly the bit for a bit the discs [TS]

00:18:50   that I had Time Machine kind of being in [TS]

00:18:53   the middle and then back plays being the [TS]

00:18:55   lowest fidelity I'm okay with that right [TS]

00:18:58   there's this trade-off you're paying [TS]

00:19:00   five dollars a month to store some [TS]

00:19:01   obscene amount of memory and someone [TS]

00:19:02   else's server [TS]

00:19:03   you know I'm I understand again if that [TS]

00:19:07   if I find myself restoring from that so [TS]

00:19:09   many things have gone wrong that I just [TS]

00:19:11   accept that you know every little bit of [TS]

00:19:13   metadata won't be there but because of [TS]

00:19:15   that I also don't use the metadata for [TS]

00:19:18   any it's not an essential part of my [TS]

00:19:19   workflow for organizing my files just [TS]

00:19:20   because so many things not just backup [TS]

00:19:22   software but so many things are not [TS]

00:19:24   won't won't honor and copy that metadata [TS]

00:19:27   like the Apple's own CP commands that MV [TS]

00:19:30   commands duffle for the most part honor [TS]

00:19:31   it but lots of other tools like even if [TS]

00:19:34   you install the third-party builds of [TS]

00:19:35   our sink and haven't compiled it with [TS]

00:19:36   the right options that might not bring [TS]

00:19:38   your extended after it's over and if you [TS]

00:19:39   less you don't pass the right flags and [TS]

00:19:41   stuff like I just can't rely on myself [TS]

00:19:43   to be careful to preserve that stuff so [TS]

00:19:44   I never put on anything I really care [TS]

00:19:46   about in Medway like that would just sad [TS]

00:19:48   because I wish it was pervasive and [TS]

00:19:51   supported everywhere but the lowest [TS]

00:19:52   common denominator which is [TS]

00:19:53   actually incorrect expression but you [TS]

00:19:55   all know what I mean is so much lower [TS]

00:19:58   than what it is on the Mac so the the [TS]

00:20:01   common set of metadata that you can be [TS]

00:20:03   confident is going to survive everywhere [TS]

00:20:05   it's higher than it has ever been but [TS]

00:20:07   still way lower than what Mac OS [TS]

00:20:09   supports so backup programs being on [TS]

00:20:13   that lower end I just accept is another [TS]

00:20:15   sad reality just like filename [TS]

00:20:17   extensions sorry John [TS]

00:20:19   someday we'll get there someday we'll [TS]

00:20:22   find it The Rainbow Connection that one [TS]

00:20:25   right over my head [TS]

00:20:25   I know I've heard it before I think it's [TS]

00:20:28   a Beatles lyric have you had close close [TS]

00:20:31   Margo have you shown Adam The Muppet [TS]

00:20:33   movie oh there we go no yeah it's a [TS]

00:20:37   little bit slow pace for kids because [TS]

00:20:39   it's just like a 70s movie and movies [TS]

00:20:41   were slower back then but still got some [TS]

00:20:44   good songs you know what I loved Charles [TS]

00:20:48   Bronson was in with like the great [TS]

00:20:49   Muppet Caper or something like that it [TS]

00:20:51   was another Muppets movie I forget where [TS]

00:20:53   what what the official title was but I [TS]

00:20:55   remember loving that as a kid and like [TS]

00:20:58   many years ago I watched it with Aaron [TS]

00:20:59   in you as an adult and I was like oh [TS]

00:21:01   this movie is not that the original [TS]

00:21:04   movie though is is very sweet and has [TS]

00:21:06   good songs and good pressure values and [TS]

00:21:08   Kermit rides a bicycle so Marco can [TS]

00:21:10   watch it and feel some kinship what kind [TS]

00:21:12   of saddle does he use yeah it's hard to [TS]

00:21:13   tell is he is he properly fit on his sit [TS]

00:21:16   bones no frogs have sit bones I'm still [TS]

00:21:19   not sure if people have sit bones [TS]

00:21:20   technically he's got someone's hand up [TS]

00:21:21   his butt but oh my god through the magic [TS]

00:21:24   own special effects he's riding a bike [TS]

00:21:26   it's pretty cool we were sponsored this [TS]

00:21:29   week by Casper the best bed for better [TS]

00:21:32   sleep go to Casper calm slash ATP to [TS]

00:21:35   learn more and dive deeper into the [TS]

00:21:37   science behind the perfect mattress most [TS]

00:21:39   people don't really think about the [TS]

00:21:41   science behind a mattress the Casper [TS]

00:21:44   team on the other hand is really a bunch [TS]

00:21:46   of engineering nerds who dig as far as [TS]

00:21:48   possible into the science of sleep and [TS]

00:21:50   the technology to deliver it [TS]

00:21:51   Casper combines pressure relieving [TS]

00:21:53   supportive memory foam with a breathable [TS]

00:21:56   open-cell layer for all-night comfort [TS]

00:21:59   with just the right sink and just the [TS]

00:22:01   right bounce and they have affordable [TS]

00:22:03   pricing because they sell directly to [TS]

00:22:05   consumers they don't sell through [TS]

00:22:06   showroom [TS]

00:22:07   or all these you know middlemen [TS]

00:22:09   distributors they sell directly to you [TS]

00:22:11   and they have free shipping and returns [TS]

00:22:14   within the US and Canada [TS]

00:22:16   now it sounds kind of crazy to buy a [TS]

00:22:17   mattress online but Casper has this [TS]

00:22:19   figured out they have you covered they [TS]

00:22:21   know that you will have to actually [TS]

00:22:23   sleep on a mattress to know whether it's [TS]

00:22:25   right for you so what they do they ship [TS]

00:22:27   it to you for free and they offer a 100 [TS]

00:22:30   night free home trial with no hassle [TS]

00:22:33   returns if you're not happy so you have [TS]

00:22:36   a hundred nights to sleep on it to [TS]

00:22:38   really get to know this mattress to know [TS]

00:22:39   whether it's right for you with over [TS]

00:22:42   20,000 reviews and an average of 4.8 [TS]

00:22:44   stars it is quickly becoming the [TS]

00:22:46   Internet's favorite mattress and it is [TS]

00:22:48   designed developed and assembled all in [TS]

00:22:51   the USA so if you're interested in [TS]

00:22:53   learning more and getting that hundred [TS]

00:22:55   night trial for a wonderful Casper [TS]

00:22:57   mattress dive deeper into the science [TS]

00:22:59   behind the perfect mattress and get $50 [TS]

00:23:01   towards any mattress purchase at Casper [TS]

00:23:04   comm slash ATP using code ATP at [TS]

00:23:07   checkout terms and conditions do apply [TS]

00:23:09   once again learn more about the science [TS]

00:23:12   behind Casper's perfect mattress and get [TS]

00:23:14   $50 towards any mattress purchase at [TS]

00:23:16   Casper comm slash ATP using code ATP [TS]

00:23:20   thank you so much to Casper for [TS]

00:23:22   sponsoring this show all right so let's [TS]

00:23:27   talk about a lot of people have written [TS]

00:23:29   in with a a lot of anger about Outback [TS]

00:23:33   blazes 30-day retention policy so this [TS]

00:23:37   is something that I could not possibly [TS]

00:23:39   care less about but there's a lot of [TS]

00:23:42   very grumpy people about it so if I [TS]

00:23:45   understand things right back leis has [TS]

00:23:47   said if you have a a say external hard [TS]

00:23:51   drive that is physically connected to [TS]

00:23:53   your computer and this qualifies for [TS]

00:23:55   Backblaze backups if you don't plug it [TS]

00:23:59   in every 30 days then they will delete [TS]

00:24:02   those backups so let's say you know I [TS]

00:24:04   have an external hard drive that has a [TS]

00:24:07   bunch of pictures on it if I don't plug [TS]

00:24:09   it in at least once a month at the end [TS]

00:24:11   of a month if I haven't plugged it in [TS]

00:24:13   that place will delete all those files [TS]

00:24:14   and there's a lot of people that are [TS]

00:24:16   really really grumpy about this that [TS]

00:24:18   have written us and are like why aren't [TS]

00:24:19   you talking about this how can you let [TS]

00:24:20   this [TS]

00:24:20   Stan I just don't care like why I don't [TS]

00:24:25   understand why people think it's [TS]

00:24:26   acceptable for backplates to hold on to [TS]

00:24:29   this data in perpetuity just because [TS]

00:24:31   they're paying them five dollars a month [TS]

00:24:33   or whatever it is CrashPlan does it for [TS]

00:24:35   ten dollars a month I mean it all comes [TS]

00:24:37   down to the business model oh thank you [TS]

00:24:38   yeah back plays the corporate no for ten [TS]

00:24:41   dollars is the new plan that they are [TS]

00:24:42   doing okay so back plays has been on [TS]

00:24:45   Twitter talking to people and they say [TS]

00:24:46   like oh we consider revisiting this [TS]

00:24:47   policy at Baba but yeah it just comes [TS]

00:24:50   down to the economics if this is a way [TS]

00:24:52   for Backblaze to make it so they don't [TS]

00:24:54   lose money and cancel this plan because [TS]

00:24:58   you can imagine just hooking up every [TS]

00:24:59   hard drive you have and pushing it up [TS]

00:25:01   and then just never reconnecting it I'd [TS]

00:25:02   do it because I keep the most of my hard [TS]

00:25:03   drives unmounted and occasionally back [TS]

00:25:06   plays yells at me and tells me I haven't [TS]

00:25:07   mounted one in a while I just mounted in [TS]

00:25:09   it and it's fine like it sends you a [TS]

00:25:10   reminder you're not going to not know [TS]

00:25:12   that it's happening [TS]

00:25:12   but if Backblaze wanted to like revisit [TS]

00:25:15   this what they would have to do is say [TS]

00:25:16   you can start as much as you want but [TS]

00:25:18   now we're gonna have to charge you on [TS]

00:25:19   some sort of usage basis maybe there's a [TS]

00:25:22   flat fee up to a certain size but once [TS]

00:25:24   you get beyond that you have to pay an [TS]

00:25:25   additional X number of dollars for [TS]

00:25:27   different you know you know like it [TS]

00:25:28   doesn't have to be exactly I like Hart [TS]

00:25:29   you pay for every bite like s3 it can [TS]

00:25:31   still be the insurance model where [TS]

00:25:33   everybody pays the same amount and most [TS]

00:25:35   people do very little but a few people [TS]

00:25:37   do a lot it all evens out like that's [TS]

00:25:38   their business model to support your [TS]

00:25:40   ability to just hook up a hard drive to [TS]

00:25:42   terabyte hard drive once let it back up [TS]

00:25:45   over the course of the week and then [TS]

00:25:46   just file it away in a shelf confident [TS]

00:25:47   to those two terabytes will be there [TS]

00:25:48   forever back blades will store those two [TS]

00:25:50   terabytes for you no problem you just [TS]

00:25:52   got to give them enough money to make it [TS]

00:25:53   worth their while and how much more do [TS]

00:25:54   you have to give it than $5 a month I [TS]

00:25:56   don't know they can figure out how the [TS]

00:25:57   math works but for all the people asking [TS]

00:25:59   for that feature it's going to cost you [TS]

00:26:01   more money and I think those people will [TS]

00:26:02   be willing to cost more money so I think [TS]

00:26:04   back please [TS]

00:26:04   should come up with the plan that has [TS]

00:26:06   slightly different policies that is [TS]

00:26:08   priced slightly differently and for its [TS]

00:26:11   extreme users they would use that they [TS]

00:26:13   would get more money out of the extreme [TS]

00:26:14   users and I think they would just have [TS]

00:26:16   happier customers overall because most [TS]

00:26:17   people don't care about this but the [TS]

00:26:19   people who do as we noted are you know [TS]

00:26:21   very very worked up about it so that [TS]

00:26:24   plays you leave money on the table go [TS]

00:26:25   take take some money from the people who [TS]

00:26:27   want their stuff to be stored forever I [TS]

00:26:29   think one of the main roots of that [TS]

00:26:31   anger is like you know when you know [TS]

00:26:33   Backblaze advertisers [TS]

00:26:34   unlimited and unlimited in computers is [TS]

00:26:37   never really unlimited and there's [TS]

00:26:40   there's always exceptions to that [TS]

00:26:41   because it's impossible to build a [TS]

00:26:43   business on being truly unlimited and [TS]

00:26:46   you know usually like the it's easy to [TS]

00:26:49   understand business models that don't [TS]

00:26:52   claim to be unlimited and just show you [TS]

00:26:53   their pricing and their limits right [TS]

00:26:55   upfront and so I think the people who [TS]

00:26:57   were angry about that are probably angry [TS]

00:26:59   because they expect truly unlimited [TS]

00:27:02   because that's how it's advertised and [TS]

00:27:05   this is an exception to that but you [TS]

00:27:07   know that's again like that's you know I [TS]

00:27:09   think you put a well that's why they [TS]

00:27:11   were able to stay business is because of [TS]

00:27:12   limitations like that that are I think [TS]

00:27:14   pretty reasonable limitations yeah like [TS]

00:27:17   that's not a secret [TS]

00:27:18   they're gonna pop that log in your faces [TS]

00:27:19   I think they popped the first I like a [TS]

00:27:21   box in like 10 days or 14 days like hey [TS]

00:27:23   I haven't seen this books in this disc [TS]

00:27:24   in 10 days perhaps you want to plug it [TS]

00:27:26   back in like they're secretly trying to [TS]

00:27:28   delete all your data but the this is [TS]

00:27:30   where the economics work for five [TS]

00:27:31   dollars you can really start as much as [TS]

00:27:33   you want for five dollars but you can't [TS]

00:27:34   like briefly connect the hard drive your [TS]

00:27:36   computer like have your your friends [TS]

00:27:38   come and bring their hard drive so come [TS]

00:27:40   up to your computer let them back up and [TS]

00:27:41   then take the hard drive back to the [TS]

00:27:42   house and never visit it again now you [TS]

00:27:43   have a permanent backup of their stuff [TS]

00:27:44   just in case they lose it like that's [TS]

00:27:46   that's the model they're trying to avoid [TS]

00:27:48   people just you know using it as a way [TS]

00:27:50   station to drop off a couple terabytes [TS]

00:27:52   right that's not that's not sustainable [TS]

00:27:54   for five dollars a month flat fee yep so [TS]

00:27:58   a lot of other people have written in [TS]

00:27:59   and said hey you know you I don't know [TS]

00:28:02   if you guys were aware but you all have [TS]

00:28:04   seen ologies and and Synology does have [TS]

00:28:08   a peer-to-peer backup system strategy [TS]

00:28:10   etc why don't you do that and I will be [TS]

00:28:14   the bad guy and say I don't want to [TS]

00:28:16   share my space with you two jerks and [TS]

00:28:18   it's mine and I don't want to share and [TS]

00:28:20   I I would probably if either of you [TS]

00:28:25   asked me be willing to offer up what I [TS]

00:28:28   could but last I heard John you said [TS]

00:28:31   last episode of the one before [TS]

00:28:32   intersting there's no room in the end I [TS]

00:28:35   don't have a squared espera I'm certain [TS]

00:28:37   reference here yeah exactly so John [TS]

00:28:39   doesn't have John doesn't have any X [TS]

00:28:41   expand any excess space to offer and [TS]

00:28:44   thus if you don't have any excess space [TS]

00:28:47   I won't have enough [TS]

00:28:48   to offer you a backup Marco and I maybe [TS]

00:28:50   could set this up but I don't know I [TS]

00:28:52   just I feel like this is the sort of [TS]

00:28:55   thing where I should be paying a company [TS]

00:28:58   to handle this for me which is what I [TS]

00:29:00   will probably end up doing and and I [TS]

00:29:03   don't I don't feel comfortable asking [TS]

00:29:06   even you guys who I think would probably [TS]

00:29:08   say you know all things being equal [TS]

00:29:10   could probably say yeah sure you can [TS]

00:29:12   back up to my Salah gee I don't feel [TS]

00:29:13   comfortable talking to you guys about it [TS]

00:29:15   let alone you know anyone else I might [TS]

00:29:17   know so I don't really view this as a [TS]

00:29:20   reasonable option for me but maybe I'm [TS]

00:29:22   just being a big baby yeah I don't it's [TS]

00:29:24   not a reasonable option for most people [TS]

00:29:25   and and I wouldn't say yes because I [TS]

00:29:27   don't want the responsibility of holding [TS]

00:29:28   your data like the whole point of of [TS]

00:29:30   cloud backup is I want it to be far away [TS]

00:29:32   from my house so if the house burned [TS]

00:29:33   down is okay and I want it to be [TS]

00:29:35   someplace where it's somebody's job to [TS]

00:29:39   make sure my data is actually there a [TS]

00:29:41   lot of people do this where they do a [TS]

00:29:43   hard drive and and back it up and put it [TS]

00:29:45   in a relative's house that is better [TS]

00:29:46   than nothing I'm not gonna discourage [TS]

00:29:47   you from doing that but in that [TS]

00:29:49   situation I've been in a many times what [TS]

00:29:52   always happens is you forget to keep [TS]

00:29:54   bringing the hard drive back and forth [TS]

00:29:55   because it's a pain and if it's Network [TS]

00:29:57   base like I don't have to do that it's [TS]

00:29:58   all magic over the network is the person [TS]

00:30:01   at the other end invested in making sure [TS]

00:30:04   that your backup continues to be [TS]

00:30:05   successful and that you know they're the [TS]

00:30:08   the hard drive that's doing it isn't [TS]

00:30:09   filling up or doesn't have some bad [TS]

00:30:10   sectors and stuff like that's not their [TS]

00:30:12   job and they don't want to be [TS]

00:30:13   responsible for that and if something [TS]

00:30:15   goes wrong now you're mad at like a [TS]

00:30:16   friend or relative and there have been [TS]

00:30:18   like products on Kickstarter and stuff [TS]

00:30:19   to try to do with strangers like we'll [TS]

00:30:21   all share our date it'll be a big [TS]

00:30:22   distributed p2p cloud like so far that [TS]

00:30:25   hasn't worked out it's a good it's a [TS]

00:30:27   good idea if I think if space was [TS]

00:30:28   cheaper and bandwidth is more would work [TS]

00:30:30   out but right now I hardly recommend [TS]

00:30:33   sending your data to some company whose [TS]

00:30:35   job it is to make sure your data safe [TS]

00:30:37   doesn't mean the company's gonna be [TS]

00:30:38   perfect either but hey if the company [TS]

00:30:40   screws things up you can feel fine about [TS]

00:30:42   being mad at the company B you can sue [TS]

00:30:44   the company maybe probably not because [TS]

00:30:45   of their User Agreement but anyway like [TS]

00:30:47   you can get as mad as you want about [TS]

00:30:48   them they have deep pockets so if you [TS]

00:30:50   want some sort of requests you can get [TS]

00:30:52   it you would never want to be in this [TS]

00:30:53   relationship with a relative or a friend [TS]

00:30:54   we're through some faults that you will [TS]

00:30:57   argue about your your backup your [TS]

00:30:59   off-site backup is corrupt [TS]

00:31:01   or Unruh or not there or something goes [TS]

00:31:04   wrong or whatever and then people being [TS]

00:31:06   bitter about the harddrive space you're [TS]

00:31:07   using if they want to reclaim that to [TS]

00:31:08   put like more the Ritz blu-rays on it's [TS]

00:31:11   just it is not a relationship you want [TS]

00:31:13   to be in I do not recommend this even [TS]

00:31:17   though there's lots of good software for [TS]

00:31:18   it that makes it easy [TS]

00:31:19   oh but like I said all that said if [TS]

00:31:21   that's your only option like if that's [TS]

00:31:23   the only thing you can do whether it's [TS]

00:31:25   carrying hard drives back and forth in a [TS]

00:31:26   car or having your two Synology to talk [TS]

00:31:28   to each other it is better than nothing [TS]

00:31:30   but I really recommend making a company [TS]

00:31:32   do it you know I think I would almost [TS]

00:31:35   feel I'm not even almost I think I would [TS]

00:31:37   probably feel more comfortable saying to [TS]

00:31:40   one of you guys I am shipping a Synology [TS]

00:31:42   to your house a second Synology I don't [TS]

00:31:45   want to run your Synology I don't want [TS]

00:31:47   to run your hardware in my house it's [TS]

00:31:49   hard enough running my own stuff my kids [TS]

00:31:51   gonna spill peanut butter on it my [TS]

00:31:53   basements gonna flood the mice are gonna [TS]

00:31:54   poop in it it's just no I totally [TS]

00:31:58   understand that yeah yeah like yeah I I [TS]

00:32:00   also I don't want the responsibility you [TS]

00:32:01   know like it's it's much less about you [TS]

00:32:04   know the about the the physical having [TS]

00:32:07   the hardware or having the space or the [TS]

00:32:09   money required to run and empower it [TS]

00:32:11   like it's more about I don't want you to [TS]

00:32:14   depend on this box in my house can I [TS]

00:32:16   said you know in my garage that's [TS]

00:32:18   probably overheating itself slowly like [TS]

00:32:20   it I don't need like I don't need the [TS]

00:32:22   stress of that and that like and I don't [TS]

00:32:25   I would hate to be in the position where [TS]

00:32:27   your stuff went bad and you were [TS]

00:32:29   depending on me and this thing being [TS]

00:32:31   perfectly operating in my house to fix [TS]

00:32:33   that and and talk about like you know [TS]

00:32:35   that's fine for the three of us like [TS]

00:32:37   most people don't have friends with [TS]

00:32:39   giant Nast boxes in their garage like [TS]

00:32:43   this is not a generalizable solution it [TS]

00:32:45   barely would even work for us and we [TS]

00:32:48   have giant Nash boxes with giant hard [TS]

00:32:50   drives and fast internet connections and [TS]

00:32:52   we're all friends like most people don't [TS]

00:32:55   have that kind of setup and even the [TS]

00:32:57   ones like us who do probably shouldn't [TS]

00:32:58   do that if we have other options I think [TS]

00:33:01   it's safer to lend people money give [TS]

00:33:06   people money you could just say it's [TS]

00:33:08   just a gift just you never have to pay [TS]

00:33:09   me back here it is we're friends whereas [TS]

00:33:10   the day that it's like it's like you're [TS]

00:33:12   keeping the safe for me right like it's [TS]

00:33:14   easier to keep [TS]

00:33:15   children safe than their data busy you [TS]

00:33:18   forget the stupid hard drivers there you [TS]

00:33:21   forget if it's still running you forget [TS]

00:33:22   a thing czar going bad the person on the [TS]

00:33:25   other end doesn't know that their thing [TS]

00:33:26   is failing because you have some it's [TS]

00:33:27   just it's not you are not a data center [TS]

00:33:30   you don't have a climate control thing [TS]

00:33:32   with aisles and miles of Iraq computers [TS]

00:33:34   you know like just you don't have that [TS]

00:33:37   you don't have redundant power backups [TS]

00:33:39   you don't just you're not in the [TS]

00:33:40   business of being a backup thing so it's [TS]

00:33:42   just it's just gonna be sad all around [TS]

00:33:44   because if something goes wrong then you [TS]

00:33:46   know what do you do you just sit there [TS]

00:33:48   and try not to blame each other but then [TS]

00:33:49   you do feel bad about it like I feel [TS]

00:33:52   like it's a much better feeling for you [TS]

00:33:53   to back up stuff the back plays and then [TS]

00:33:55   you're all your data goes corrupt them [TS]

00:33:56   back plays at the last moment like then [TS]

00:33:57   you just be righteously mad at back [TS]

00:33:59   plays being mad at corporation is what [TS]

00:34:00   Americans are best at we don't want [TS]

00:34:02   don't want every relationships just you [TS]

00:34:04   know I'm never flying Delta again like [TS]

00:34:05   you can do that all you want fine you [TS]

00:34:07   don't want to sacrifice your personal [TS]

00:34:09   relationships but she'll keep you [TS]

00:34:10   vibrant and extend your life according [TS]

00:34:12   to all the studies yeah it's funny bring [TS]

00:34:14   that up because the unfortunately named [TS]

00:34:16   pahis food in the chat said backing up [TS]

00:34:19   each other storage is like lending money [TS]

00:34:21   don't do it with your friends do it with [TS]

00:34:22   the business and I agree with that like [TS]

00:34:24   I said I think lending money is better [TS]

00:34:26   because it is a it's a yeah if it is [TS]

00:34:29   better than backing up because lending [TS]

00:34:30   money you can lend it and say oh I'm [TS]

00:34:32   pretending this is loan but in my heart [TS]

00:34:33   of hearts I'm realizing this is a gift [TS]

00:34:35   and just say I never expect to see this [TS]

00:34:37   money back and I'll be fine with it [TS]

00:34:38   because it's a nice thing to do there's [TS]

00:34:39   no ongoing relationship where you're [TS]

00:34:41   like maintaining that money for the [TS]

00:34:42   person or anything be more like if they [TS]

00:34:44   gave you instead of putting their money [TS]

00:34:45   into savings they gave it the money's [TS]

00:34:47   free to you to invest and that would be [TS]

00:34:49   the kind of responsibility you're [TS]

00:34:50   getting for data it's like and then they [TS]

00:34:52   come back and say house hasn't all that [TS]

00:34:53   money I gave you [TS]

00:34:54   how's that investment going like yeah [TS]

00:34:56   yeah it's it's going it's going okay [TS]

00:35:00   then they get mad at you why did you do [TS]

00:35:01   a better job of investing my money it's [TS]

00:35:02   like just why didn't you not make me do [TS]

00:35:05   this yeah and I need to be clear I agree [TS]

00:35:11   with you that lending money to a friend [TS]

00:35:13   is maybe not the best thing in the world [TS]

00:35:15   but it is way better than being a backup [TS]

00:35:17   strategy so to hopefully come to the end [TS]

00:35:21   of this was only a couple more things [TS]

00:35:22   about backups Jon tell me about Synology [TS]

00:35:24   see two backups [TS]

00:35:26   this is still in beta and [TS]

00:35:28   apparently a thing a Synology thing i [TS]

00:35:29   think it's only in germany - so it's not [TS]

00:35:31   really relevant dust but Synology has [TS]

00:35:32   their own everyone's to riff on s-3b - [TS]

00:35:35   now you got see - we're running out of [TS]

00:35:37   letters and number columns here your [TS]

00:35:39   Synology will do a back up of itself - [TS]

00:35:42   Synology zone cloud storage they just [TS]

00:35:44   reselling s3 I have no idea but anyway [TS]

00:35:46   paper on no that's that's a thing we'll [TS]

00:35:48   put the link in the show notes if you [TS]

00:35:49   have a Synology you're interested in [TS]

00:35:50   looking at the c2 beta [TS]

00:35:51   especially if you live in your Frankfurt [TS]

00:35:52   Germany or wherever the hell this is [TS]

00:35:54   check it out yeah that it's expensive [TS]

00:35:58   though it's a are we selling s3 it's 70 [TS]

00:36:03   euros per terabyte per year so that's 83 [TS]

00:36:07   dollars ish according to duck taco per [TS]

00:36:10   terabyte and if I have five that's four [TS]

00:36:12   hundred and fifteen dollars a year for [TS]

00:36:14   me that is not inexpensive yeah I think [TS]

00:36:17   back lays b2 is still probably the [TS]

00:36:19   cheapest option I know of for like like [TS]

00:36:22   actual paper gig but otherwise you know [TS]

00:36:24   unlimited in usage as long as you pay [TS]

00:36:26   for it kind of kind of thing like I [TS]

00:36:28   don't I don't know of anything cheaper [TS]

00:36:30   than b2 yet but I'm happy to hear [TS]

00:36:32   suggestions yeah [TS]

00:36:34   additionally friend of the show Dan [TS]

00:36:36   Morin has written a post for Mac world [TS]

00:36:38   which is apparently still a thing saying [TS]

00:36:40   why the Mac needs iCloud backup so why [TS]

00:36:44   not I guess right I mean iCloud is [TS]

00:36:46   foolproof and definitely is a [TS]

00:36:48   justifiable use is is backing up all of [TS]

00:36:51   your data that you cannot possibly lose [TS]

00:36:53   why wouldn't that work it's backing up a [TS]

00:36:55   lot of data a lot of iOS devices are [TS]

00:36:57   backed up I got only Apple knows for [TS]

00:36:59   sure how many of them I mean you get [TS]

00:37:00   some of that of iCloud backup stuff I [TS]

00:37:02   forget to sum it's some obscenely small [TS]

00:37:04   amount that you get five gigs I think [TS]

00:37:06   it's five gigs yeah right [TS]

00:37:07   but anyway and you could pay for more [TS]

00:37:09   but the mattress doesn't have that and [TS]

00:37:11   this is no those cases where the Mac [TS]

00:37:12   doesn't have a feature that iOS had for [TS]

00:37:14   years and years and a lot of people [TS]

00:37:16   asked about like when is when is Apple [TS]

00:37:18   gonna do a lot back for the Mac it seems [TS]

00:37:19   inevitable if they eventually get around [TS]

00:37:21   to it because they already do iCloud [TS]

00:37:23   backups is not a new business they would [TS]

00:37:24   do the same model of giving you a [TS]

00:37:26   useless amount of storage for free and [TS]

00:37:28   then you pay for more and I bet people [TS]

00:37:31   will use it because why shouldn't Apple [TS]

00:37:33   be in the cloud backup business for all [TS]

00:37:35   this devices basically in the cloud [TS]

00:37:38   packing business for all of his devices [TS]

00:37:39   - a rounding error which we [TS]

00:37:41   the Mac these days so I hope Apple does [TS]

00:37:43   do that because I mean first of all what [TS]

00:37:45   choice do we have for cloud backups on [TS]

00:37:47   the phone it's not like we can use [TS]

00:37:47   Backblaze or CrashPlan on our phone we [TS]

00:37:49   all do iCloud backups even if we also do [TS]

00:37:52   iTunes backups and for the most part it [TS]

00:37:54   seems to sort of work and it's certainly [TS]

00:37:56   better than nothing so Apple should do [TS]

00:37:58   that eventually it also just like you [TS]

00:38:01   know the you can you can make jokes [TS]

00:38:03   about like how bad Apple services have [TS]

00:38:05   been so far in the past and everything [TS]

00:38:06   that but I think I fled back up to [TS]

00:38:08   pretty solid like and most of their [TS]

00:38:10   recent services are pretty solid you [TS]

00:38:13   know some of their intelligence based [TS]

00:38:14   things like Siri and and conserve ads [TS]

00:38:17   could use some work but like the the [TS]

00:38:19   stuff that's about just like storing [TS]

00:38:20   your data responsibly and syncing it and [TS]

00:38:22   everything that stuff has been pretty [TS]

00:38:24   solid for a while now so I am totally [TS]

00:38:28   you know fine with the idea at Apple [TS]

00:38:30   offering this and it's one of those [TS]

00:38:31   things it's similar to like when they [TS]

00:38:33   launched Time Machine the there was a [TS]

00:38:36   lot of criticism about various [TS]

00:38:39   limitations or requirements Time Machine [TS]

00:38:41   had but like the one thing you can [TS]

00:38:42   always say in defensive moves like this [TS]

00:38:44   is well it's better than people who use [TS]

00:38:46   nothing at all like it's better than [TS]

00:38:48   nothing right and and so with iOS [TS]

00:38:51   devices backing up to iCloud like you [TS]

00:38:54   know that's another situation where like [TS]

00:38:55   it's better than not having even the [TS]

00:38:57   five gigs they give you is better than [TS]

00:38:59   nothing [TS]

00:38:59   it'd be nice to have more by default [TS]

00:39:02   because it would be nice to have a [TS]

00:39:04   reasonable amount for all iPhones sold [TS]

00:39:06   that just came with the price of the [TS]

00:39:08   iPhone I think that would be a wonderful [TS]

00:39:09   thing for Apple to do I'm not holding my [TS]

00:39:12   breath on that but but I wish they would [TS]

00:39:14   do things like that but because you know [TS]

00:39:16   having having any backup is better than [TS]

00:39:18   having no backup and this would be the [TS]

00:39:20   kind of thing we're like yeah not every [TS]

00:39:22   Mac owner would or should use an iCloud [TS]

00:39:25   backup service if it were if it were off [TS]

00:39:27   on the Mac but it would be a really easy [TS]

00:39:29   fast way to get lots of Mac users to [TS]

00:39:32   have a backup who otherwise would have [TS]

00:39:34   had nothing at all and that's that's [TS]

00:39:37   good that you want that we were [TS]

00:39:41   sponsored this week by audible with an [TS]

00:39:43   unmatched collection of audiobooks [TS]

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00:39:47   more get a free 30-day trial at [TS]

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00:39:52   listen to it audible has it [TS]

00:39:54   you can listen to audiobooks from [TS]

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00:40:08   road trips or even your daily commute [TS]

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00:40:16   audiobooks each year even if you only go [TS]

00:40:19   to and from work every day listen and [TS]

00:40:20   then because the time really adds up and [TS]

00:40:22   audiobooks really bring books to life [TS]

00:40:25   many of them are read by the authors [TS]

00:40:26   themselves which really adds an extra [TS]

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00:41:00   signing up at audible.com slash ATP [TS]

00:41:03   that's audible.com slash ATP thanks to [TS]

00:41:07   audible for sponsoring our show all [TS]

00:41:13   right so that's the end of the follow up [TS]

00:41:14   and we should move on to SK TP no no [TS]

00:41:17   what do you know one more item quickie [TS]

00:41:20   for you oh no there's nothing else I [TS]

00:41:23   believe there is so case no it's not I [TS]

00:41:25   heard that you might have had a keyboard [TS]

00:41:29   flaw on your new MacBook adorable that [TS]

00:41:33   has this wonderful keyboard that [TS]

00:41:34   everyone loves so much that definitely [TS]

00:41:36   isn't enough constant flaws for almost [TS]

00:41:37   everybody [TS]

00:41:37   no no that's fake news oh okay make sure [TS]

00:41:42   yeah so my beloved MacBook adorable [TS]

00:41:44   apparently got an infinitesimally small [TS]

00:41:47   piece of dust under the numeral four key [TS]

00:41:50   and because of that it was mushy for [TS]

00:41:54   days until I finally had the time to go [TS]

00:41:58   to Target and buy myself compressed air [TS]

00:42:01   which is something I haven't bought in [TS]

00:42:03   probably five maybe ten years and then [TS]

00:42:06   take the compressed air to my macbook [TS]

00:42:08   and blow out the infinitesimally small [TS]

00:42:10   piece of dust and then subsequent to [TS]

00:42:13   that it took me a few hours to realize I [TS]

00:42:15   had not really removed the dust but [TS]

00:42:17   simply relocated it to under the caps [TS]

00:42:19   lock secure perhaps lock key which I [TS]

00:42:22   don't generally use but I happened to [TS]

00:42:24   use a few hours later and was like oh [TS]

00:42:26   well that's mushy and gross I guess I [TS]

00:42:28   know where that dust went and then I had [TS]

00:42:30   to take the compressed air again to the [TS]

00:42:32   caps lock key in order to blow it out [TS]

00:42:34   again and now I think my keyboard is [TS]

00:42:36   fully functioning once more but yeah [TS]

00:42:39   very frustrating because the difference [TS]

00:42:41   between the regularly functioning key [TS]

00:42:43   keys and a key that has just a iota of [TS]

00:42:49   dust under it is night and day it is [TS]

00:42:52   disgusting to use a key that has dust [TS]

00:42:54   under it because it feels mushy and [TS]

00:42:55   gross and terrible so I still love my [TS]

00:42:59   MacBook adorable I still do recommend it [TS]

00:43:01   especially as like an accessory Mac but [TS]

00:43:04   the the tolerance for dust and debris on [TS]

00:43:08   this thing is approaching zero which is [TS]

00:43:11   really unfortunate it's like the [TS]

00:43:13   opposite of that panasonic toughbook [TS]

00:43:14   remember that oh yeah I do [TS]

00:43:17   the yellow laptop the laptop meant to [TS]

00:43:19   work in all sorts of environments maybe [TS]

00:43:21   you should get one of those like glass [TS]

00:43:22   boxes with the little holes with the [TS]

00:43:24   gloves and adorable inside the box and [TS]

00:43:29   when you want to use it just put your [TS]

00:43:30   hands into those gloves [TS]

00:43:31   I hear you so yeah so that was sad times [TS]

00:43:34   I'm about to get one of these at work by [TS]

00:43:36   the way I'm about to get a 20-17 [TS]

00:43:38   MacBook Pro at work I'll let you know if [TS]

00:43:40   and when Mikey I think Mikey bro will be [TS]

00:43:42   fine because I plan to never touch it I [TS]

00:43:43   plan to keep the thing closed and use it [TS]

00:43:46   to hook up to a monitor and just use it [TS]

00:43:47   as like a three times more powerful [TS]

00:43:49   version of my Mac Pro that I have at [TS]

00:43:51   work now hooked up to the very same [TS]

00:43:53   monitor mouse and keyboard but we'll see [TS]

00:43:55   you say that but as Marco and I were [TS]

00:43:57   just recounting an episode or two ago [TS]

00:43:59   clamshell mode is the word I'll leave it [TS]

00:44:03   cracks but the point is I'm gonna I'm [TS]

00:44:04   gonna not use that keyboard if I can [TS]

00:44:06   help it yeah the thing is like and I I'm [TS]

00:44:11   obviously always tempted to launch [TS]

00:44:13   another rant about how this keyboard is [TS]

00:44:15   awful to be on all the computers but it [TS]

00:44:17   makes some sense for this awful keyboard [TS]

00:44:21   to be on that [TS]

00:44:22   computer but the one you have Casey not [TS]

00:44:24   the one John's getting and the one that [TS]

00:44:25   I have but it makes sense [TS]

00:44:26   the MacBook adorable one 12-inch [TS]

00:44:29   whatever we're calling it is super super [TS]

00:44:32   small and thin and all other costs that [TS]

00:44:35   is what that computer is for so I [TS]

00:44:37   honestly can't complain that much that [TS]

00:44:39   they put this incredibly controversial [TS]

00:44:42   unreliable keyboard in that mom you can [TS]

00:44:46   complain about the reliability like it's [TS]

00:44:48   fine to make it super slim and [TS]

00:44:49   compromise and everything but [TS]

00:44:50   reliability no matter what you do that [TS]

00:44:52   should be the one thing at least the job [TS]

00:44:53   of the keyboard is when you press the [TS]

00:44:54   key it makes a letter on your screen [TS]

00:44:56   right so they can't we shouldn't be [TS]

00:44:59   accepting this big of a downgrade and [TS]

00:45:01   expected reliability because every [TS]

00:45:03   keyboard goes bad eventually I've broken [TS]

00:45:04   a bunch of the the flat aluminum ones [TS]

00:45:06   but they last for years before something [TS]

00:45:08   goes wrong and I mean it could be [TS]

00:45:11   whatever the whatever the thing is not [TS]

00:45:13   confirmation bias but you know where you [TS]

00:45:14   where you're hyper aware of people [TS]

00:45:16   telling you tales of woe about their [TS]

00:45:17   keyboards foot boy we've heard a lot of [TS]

00:45:19   them from people who have this keyboard [TS]

00:45:20   and it just seems like a big change in [TS]

00:45:24   reliability and keyboard reliability I'm [TS]

00:45:27   you know all that tough keyboards are [TS]

00:45:29   gonna you know go crappy eventually [TS]

00:45:31   probably but within the first several [TS]

00:45:33   months to have a key stopped working to [TS]

00:45:35   the point where it affects it sound like [TS]

00:45:36   oh it feels weird when I type like to [TS]

00:45:38   the point where it doesn't make the [TS]

00:45:40   letter on the screen that's just not [TS]

00:45:41   acceptable even for the slim one that's [TS]

00:45:44   true yeah because it's like again it's [TS]

00:45:46   like it's this is a problem that we [TS]

00:45:48   didn't used to have and and or like you [TS]

00:45:50   know if you if you had a laptop that had [TS]

00:45:52   a key break or die on it it was maybe [TS]

00:45:55   after like five years or after you had [TS]

00:45:57   abused it or dropped a whole bunch of [TS]

00:45:59   crap in it and so and so that's one [TS]

00:46:01   thing that's probably unavoidable but to [TS]

00:46:03   have laptops where now this keyboard is [TS]

00:46:06   on the entire line of laptops and that [TS]

00:46:09   entire line of laptops has significant [TS]

00:46:12   reliability problems with the primary [TS]

00:46:15   interface method that is a big problem [TS]

00:46:17   that is a massive design flaw that [TS]

00:46:20   shouldn't have shipped the first time [TS]

00:46:21   let alone the second and in the case of [TS]

00:46:23   the 12-inch third times so I've really [TS]

00:46:27   you know we there was remember that read [TS]

00:46:28   a thread that was a couple months ago [TS]

00:46:30   that was allegedly from some [TS]

00:46:32   manufacturing inside that was spilling [TS]

00:46:34   details about who knows what about Apple [TS]

00:46:35   one of the things that's said in there [TS]

00:46:37   was that there's gonna be a new key [TS]

00:46:39   switch mechanism for the 2018 MacBook [TS]

00:46:41   Pro revision that allegedly is going to [TS]

00:46:43   be similar in in thickness and travel [TS]

00:46:46   but it's gonna it's gonna be like [TS]

00:46:47   magnetic or something there's gonna be [TS]

00:46:49   some kind of significant key switch [TS]

00:46:50   changed I hope that is you know I hope [TS]

00:46:54   something like that is going to happen I [TS]

00:46:56   hope Apple sees the way we do that you [TS]

00:46:59   know we can't convince them to make this [TS]

00:47:01   keyboard thicker to make it feel better [TS]

00:47:02   that's never gonna happen [TS]

00:47:03   so I'll take what we can get let's just [TS]

00:47:05   make this if we're gonna have this the [TS]

00:47:07   super thin keyboard the sacrifices the [TS]

00:47:09   key travel for Johnny is thin world at [TS]

00:47:12   least make it work reliably like there [TS]

00:47:15   is no way in 2017 and 2018 we should not [TS]

00:47:20   have unreliable laptop keyboards on [TS]

00:47:22   brand-new $2,000 and up laptops that is [TS]

00:47:25   completely unacceptable and ridiculous [TS]

00:47:28   in this day and age how to clean the [TS]

00:47:30   keyboard of your MacBook or MacBook Pro [TS]

00:47:32   if your MacBook 2015 and later or [TS]

00:47:35   MacBook Pro 2016 and later has an [TS]

00:47:36   unresponsive key or a key that feels [TS]

00:47:38   different than the other keys when you [TS]

00:47:39   press it follow these steps to clean the [TS]

00:47:41   keyboard with compressed air number one [TS]

00:47:44   hold your Mac notebook at a 75 degree [TS]

00:47:46   angle so it's not quite vertical that's [TS]

00:47:48   75 kids not 80 we come at this exact 700 [TS]

00:47:52   on this show you're there preposterous I [TS]

00:47:54   cannot believe that this is the thing [TS]

00:47:56   number 2 use compressed air to spray the [TS]

00:47:58   keyboard or just the affected keys in a [TS]

00:48:00   left-to-right motion number 3 rotate [TS]

00:48:03   your Mac notebooks so it's your right [TS]

00:48:04   side and it's a so it's right side [TS]

00:48:07   that's that's not even a full sentence [TS]

00:48:09   rook rotate your Mac keyboard so it's [TS]

00:48:11   right [TS]

00:48:11   oh - its right side I can't read my [TS]

00:48:13   apologies - its right side again from [TS]

00:48:18   left right number 4 repeat the action [TS]

00:48:20   this time with your Mac notebook rotated [TS]

00:48:21   to its left side this is asinine that [TS]

00:48:24   this is the thing now to be fair my [TS]

00:48:26   keyboard still worked it just felt like [TS]

00:48:29   garbage but or one key felt like garbage [TS]

00:48:31   and by and large I actually do still [TS]

00:48:34   very much like this keyboard I know [TS]

00:48:35   Marco you don't and that's fine but in [TS]

00:48:37   general when it can't when it's working [TS]

00:48:39   I really like this keyboard similarly [TS]

00:48:41   when my car's valvetrain hasn't exploded [TS]

00:48:43   it's a very nice car but it's just [TS]

00:48:46   frustrating it's very frustrating that [TS]

00:48:49   that [TS]

00:48:49   I have I have had this computer for to [TS]

00:48:52   wouldn't change months and I'm already [TS]

00:48:53   having to take a restorative action to [TS]

00:48:56   get the keyboard to work again right [TS]

00:48:58   it's like and again like I've resigned [TS]

00:49:00   myself to this new thin thin key switch [TS]

00:49:03   thing that feels to me is crappy but [TS]

00:49:06   every time I saw that and like I've been [TS]

00:49:09   constantly reducing my expectations fine [TS]

00:49:12   I'll carry a dongle bag fine I'll pay a [TS]

00:49:15   little bit more fine I'll have this [TS]

00:49:17   touch bar on the big ones that I really [TS]

00:49:19   don't like at least make it reliable [TS]

00:49:21   like just make it work reliably if [TS]

00:49:24   you're gonna make me swallow all of [TS]

00:49:26   these other jagged bitter pills at least [TS]

00:49:29   make something reliable that's all like [TS]

00:49:31   I'm not asking for much here I've [TS]

00:49:33   reduced my expectations and given up on [TS]

00:49:35   every other battle on these laptops just [TS]

00:49:38   a lot of smaller set of jagged little [TS]

00:49:41   pill though thank you very much I know [TS]

00:49:43   I'm just saying like that so that's [TS]

00:49:45   that's a marcos brain farting out some [TS]

00:49:48   references without his knowledge no I [TS]

00:49:50   honestly not only is that a great album [TS]

00:49:52   but I was I was arguing with TIFF about [TS]

00:49:54   this a few days ago I would say that is [TS]

00:49:56   possibly one of the most influential [TS]

00:49:59   albums of the 90s these kids who cares [TS]

00:50:02   oh you gotta wait 20 years before you [TS]

00:50:06   can be nostalgic like we are about the [TS]

00:50:08   80s you know there are times that's [TS]

00:50:11   right not 10 more years but actually 20 [TS]

00:50:13   it's it's not a linear scale so you are [TS]

00:50:16   what are you like 6 or 7 years older [TS]

00:50:18   than we are and usually that that feels [TS]

00:50:21   like 6 or 7 minutes but then there are [TS]

00:50:23   times that it feels like six or seven [TS]

00:50:25   decades and this is one of those times [TS]

00:50:28   it's when you listen to Margo and TIFF [TS]

00:50:29   talk about I knew it for that matter [TS]

00:50:31   talk to talk with nostalgia about 90s [TS]

00:50:33   music and just it's just like what that [TS]

00:50:36   was it was more than 20 years ago for [TS]

00:50:38   most of it I know I know it just it just [TS]

00:50:40   seems weird but I came out in like 95 96 [TS]

00:50:43   some like that I mean maybe I'm assuming [TS]

00:50:45   people from the 70s feel the same way [TS]

00:50:46   were people in this algebra he's music [TS]

00:50:48   because you know 70 was give me the [TS]

00:50:50   Canady was all this crap but you know [TS]

00:50:51   whatever it's what age you are I [TS]

00:50:53   understand how it works just Alanis [TS]

00:50:55   Morisette influential album 95 all right [TS]

00:50:58   geez [TS]

00:50:59   all right that should be a top four top [TS]

00:51:02   four albums in the 90s you know I knew [TS]

00:51:04   her when she was on you can't do that on [TS]

00:51:05   television you didn't know her then I [TS]

00:51:07   sure did I love that show [TS]

00:51:09   that was a great show don't even start [TS]

00:51:10   with me reruns oh you are such a turd [TS]

00:51:17   let's just move on all right ask ATP we [TS]

00:51:19   slime John somehow oh I would love to oh [TS]

00:51:22   my god we should kick start slimming [TS]

00:51:24   John and get the money to Houston or [TS]

00:51:26   something like that my word somebody get [TS]

00:51:29   on that anyway Joe Lyon writes in to ask [TS]

00:51:31   ATP this is a little bit long so I don't [TS]

00:51:34   I remember seeing this but it must be an [TS]

00:51:35   email or something what is the long game [TS]

00:51:38   in photo storage not not just which [TS]

00:51:40   cloud service do I use for the next five [TS]

00:51:42   years [TS]

00:51:43   but how will photos be managed stored [TS]

00:51:45   and handed down between generations we [TS]

00:51:47   take more pictures than ever but then we [TS]

00:51:48   lock them all into personal devices and [TS]

00:51:50   accounts that in print very few of them [TS]

00:51:52   I think our family histories are [TS]

00:51:53   actually at more danger than previously [TS]

00:51:55   ironically hundreds of thousands of [TS]

00:51:57   pictures from a family can be lost when [TS]

00:51:59   someone dies and doesn't leave behind a [TS]

00:52:00   password or a cloud service goes [TS]

00:52:02   belly-up in local backups weren't made [TS]

00:52:04   or photos or hard disks crash or data [TS]

00:52:06   isn't carried to new devices [TS]

00:52:08   coincidentally I was thinking about this [TS]

00:52:10   recently because I have I have really [TS]

00:52:15   been wondering like if I were to [TS]

00:52:18   suddenly pass away what would happen to [TS]

00:52:20   the things that I care about like our [TS]

00:52:22   pictures and because of that that that's [TS]

00:52:24   yet another reason why why I recommend [TS]

00:52:27   the 1password family plan because you [TS]

00:52:29   know Aaron has my my password via one [TS]

00:52:32   password [TS]

00:52:33   she has my password for like google [TS]

00:52:35   photos for example but but you know Joe [TS]

00:52:38   Lyons point is exactly right like he [TS]

00:52:40   used to be that you would print all [TS]

00:52:41   these pictures and create albums and [TS]

00:52:42   granted there would be far fewer [TS]

00:52:44   pictures than you would have in this [TS]

00:52:45   digital age but at least there was [TS]

00:52:47   something you can physically give to [TS]

00:52:49   somebody else what is the future bring [TS]

00:52:51   and and I'll start with the the semi pro [TS]

00:52:54   photographer Marco what do you think [TS]

00:52:55   about this I'm barely even that anymore [TS]

00:52:58   but it's it's a bigger question of you [TS]

00:53:02   know lots of things regarding your you [TS]

00:53:04   know your data integrity and everything [TS]

00:53:06   else you know it's it's it goes way [TS]

00:53:08   beyond just photos but like lots of your [TS]

00:53:10   other data as well but I mean largely [TS]

00:53:12   you know [TS]

00:53:13   once once I'm gone I won't care I won't [TS]

00:53:16   be able to care it's largely not my [TS]

00:53:19   problem with my particulars but no I [TS]

00:53:21   think it realized the Nile is God - [TS]

00:53:24   photo backup like you know I think it [TS]

00:53:27   relies on your family and people who [TS]

00:53:32   come after you it relies on them caring [TS]

00:53:34   just like preservation of anything from [TS]

00:53:36   previous generations like if they care [TS]

00:53:39   you know it basically you know we as the [TS]

00:53:42   people who have who have this data now I [TS]

00:53:44   think we do have some responsibility to [TS]

00:53:46   have some kind of recovery you know that [TS]

00:53:49   our heirs have will have access to after [TS]

00:53:51   we're gone so you know things like [TS]

00:53:52   making sure like are that their family [TS]

00:53:54   has access to passwords and data and [TS]

00:53:56   stuff like that but beyond that like [TS]

00:53:58   it's up to the next generations to care [TS]

00:54:01   and it always has been like every family [TS]

00:54:03   you know like we you know you only know [TS]

00:54:06   what your relatives have been able to [TS]

00:54:08   pass on to you you only have what they [TS]

00:54:10   have carried with them and what they [TS]

00:54:12   still have in their possessions from [TS]

00:54:13   previous generations and the same thing [TS]

00:54:17   is going to apply to this like in some [TS]

00:54:21   ways it is easier than ever to keep this [TS]

00:54:23   stuff and especially as time goes on [TS]

00:54:25   like my entire photo collection from the [TS]

00:54:28   first year I was taking photos with the [TS]

00:54:31   digital camera which is like 2004 I [TS]

00:54:34   think you know mm really but my entire [TS]

00:54:36   photo collection from that year is like [TS]

00:54:38   a few hundred Meg's like it's at most [TS]

00:54:41   like it's nothing compared to it like [TS]

00:54:42   and and as time goes on every year that [TS]

00:54:45   goes by hard drives get bigger and [TS]

00:54:47   cameras get better and photos get bigger [TS]

00:54:50   and so it seems like everything's always [TS]

00:54:52   really big buddy like what was taken in [TS]

00:54:54   the past with low resolution cameras [TS]

00:54:56   lower resolution sensors like less data [TS]

00:54:58   being captured with less video more [TS]

00:55:00   stills like I don't know I feel like [TS]

00:55:02   it's not that hard if you care and if [TS]

00:55:05   your heirs and relatives care it isn't [TS]

00:55:08   that hard to keep stuff and to pass it [TS]

00:55:10   down it's just an issue of will will the [TS]

00:55:13   people who inherit your things actually [TS]

00:55:15   care to keep them and that's always my [TS]

00:55:19   problem and photos don't get bigger all [TS]

00:55:21   the time like you said that photos get [TS]

00:55:23   bigger every year in cameras get better [TS]

00:55:24   but they we are probably [TS]

00:55:26   already very close to limits of human [TS]

00:55:29   visual acuity on the highest-end cameras [TS]

00:55:31   and we're just waiting for it to trickle [TS]

00:55:32   down once your phone is taking 42 [TS]

00:55:34   megapixel images do you think in 10 [TS]

00:55:37   years they're gonna be taking 84 [TS]

00:55:39   megapixel images they will not like [TS]

00:55:40   there what are we gonna do blow it up to [TS]

00:55:42   a post to the size of a football stadium [TS]

00:55:43   like there we are close to the limits [TS]

00:55:46   and if storage continues to increase at [TS]

00:55:49   any rate while the size of photos stays [TS]

00:55:52   more or less the same maybe even get [TS]

00:55:54   smaller if we have better compression [TS]

00:55:55   tech this is the storage of photos is a [TS]

00:55:58   problem that will solve itself [TS]

00:56:01   essentially as storage size increases so [TS]

00:56:04   just in the same way that's easy for [TS]

00:56:05   marker to take his hundred Meg's of [TS]

00:56:06   photos from 2000 in 50 years it will be [TS]

00:56:10   much easier to take our quote-unquote [TS]

00:56:13   massive photo libraries and put them in [TS]

00:56:16   in the storage of the day and 50 years [TS]

00:56:19   they will not be taking 10,000 megapixel [TS]

00:56:21   photos there probably be like 50 to 100 [TS]

00:56:24   megapixel photos if even that probably [TS]

00:56:26   not even that it's not it's gonna stop [TS]

00:56:28   because you can't there's there's no [TS]

00:56:29   point in more pixels like again you're [TS]

00:56:31   not blowing it up to a poster that [TS]

00:56:32   covers your entire house so that little [TS]

00:56:36   that part of the problem will take care [TS]

00:56:38   of itself I have some faith in that kind [TS]

00:56:40   of like music did like the music files [TS]

00:56:41   like you know even if they go to flak [TS]

00:56:44   that's it like limits of human acuity [TS]

00:56:47   bit depth bitrate all things we talk [TS]

00:56:49   about take the biggest audio file you [TS]

00:56:50   could have is there a benefit to making [TS]

00:56:52   something a hundred times bigger no [TS]

00:56:54   there isn't because we can't hear [TS]

00:56:56   anything better than that that's it [TS]

00:56:57   the audio will never get bigger than [TS]

00:56:59   than that you know and multi-channel and [TS]

00:57:01   so and so forth so I'm optimistic about [TS]

00:57:04   that and it's the thing to remember [TS]

00:57:05   about trends like this where it's like [TS]

00:57:07   oh oh or just it's never you know it's [TS]

00:57:09   gonna continue on and on some of the [TS]

00:57:11   lines on the graph level off and that is [TS]

00:57:13   a saving grace yeah the thing I would [TS]

00:57:16   add though this this is just a backup [TS]

00:57:17   problem like anything aside from the [TS]

00:57:18   social things like I'll pass it on and [TS]

00:57:20   having you know sharing your passwords [TS]

00:57:22   that you should definitely do that but [TS]

00:57:23   like any other backup problem it's all [TS]

00:57:25   about diversity right so print some [TS]

00:57:27   pictures first of all because that is a [TS]

00:57:29   diversified backup strategy physical [TS]

00:57:32   things versus digital things the [TS]

00:57:34   physical things are worse they [TS]

00:57:35   deteriorate that you can lose them that [TS]

00:57:37   you know they take up space so on and so [TS]

00:57:38   forth but it's a it's an [TS]

00:57:40   important diversification you reach out [TS]

00:57:41   you print some books from from Apple's [TS]

00:57:43   Photos app go to Shutterfly or whatever [TS]

00:57:45   print some pictures from one of our [TS]

00:57:47   sponsors of this episode right that is a [TS]

00:57:49   diversification that's also as marker [TS]

00:57:52   will surely say I may add read not just [TS]

00:57:55   diversification of backup but it'll let [TS]

00:57:56   you look at your pictures like you know [TS]

00:57:59   we all have so many pictures but if [TS]

00:58:00   they're in a digital thing like how [TS]

00:58:01   often do you even look at them I I think [TS]

00:58:03   I spent more time looking at the [TS]

00:58:04   pictures on my phone in the new [TS]

00:58:06   Uncharted game than I do looking at the [TS]

00:58:08   pictures on my actual phone on your wall [TS]

00:58:10   lets you enjoy them for the time you're [TS]

00:58:12   alive before you don't care like [TS]

00:58:13   Margaret when he's dead and [TS]

00:58:17   diversification of backup means also [TS]

00:58:19   perhaps winnowing your collection down [TS]

00:58:22   to some really good pictures and sharing [TS]

00:58:23   them with the relative this is the case [TS]

00:58:24   where you're not doing it for a backup [TS]

00:58:25   but you just want to give other people [TS]

00:58:27   your photos and I think we're in a much [TS]

00:58:29   better situation than we were in the [TS]

00:58:30   past because it's harder I think for the [TS]

00:58:33   shoebox full of photos or photo albums [TS]

00:58:35   to transfer from the the elderly [TS]

00:58:37   relative who's died to the rest of the [TS]

00:58:38   family because people don't want here's [TS]

00:58:40   like 50 pounds of photo albums or even [TS]

00:58:42   just a shoebox like people don't want [TS]

00:58:44   that junk like especially when you're [TS]

00:58:45   trying to clear out all the belongings [TS]

00:58:46   and everything like that you're trying [TS]

00:58:47   to save the few precious things like one [TS]

00:58:49   or two wedding photos then being digital [TS]

00:58:52   and that's having a fighting chance at [TS]

00:58:54   least of losslessly carrying them across [TS]

00:58:56   generations is merely a matter of making [TS]

00:58:59   that process easy enough to do and I [TS]

00:59:01   think as we all die and the people who [TS]

00:59:04   grew up in the sort of the cusp of the [TS]

00:59:06   digital age died off the process of [TS]

00:59:09   figuring out how to get our crap to [TS]

00:59:10   continue on will be worked out in a [TS]

00:59:12   generation or two and so I have a lot of [TS]

00:59:14   confidence that it's sort of permanent [TS]

00:59:17   growing archive of things associated [TS]

00:59:18   with the family will be passed on from [TS]

00:59:20   generation to generation again because [TS]

00:59:22   storage sizes will keep going up not [TS]

00:59:23   forever but they'll keep going up well [TS]

00:59:25   long after the the size of the things [TS]

00:59:27   we're doing go up and I by the way I [TS]

00:59:29   also think there's a limit on number of [TS]

00:59:30   photos we'll take to it because I'm I [TS]

00:59:32   guess you just wish to to constantly [TS]

00:59:34   recorded video but there's some social [TS]

00:59:35   parts that that I think might won't make [TS]

00:59:36   it happen but we take so many more [TS]

00:59:38   pictures now than we used to especially [TS]

00:59:40   we have kids but in 300 years we're not [TS]

00:59:43   gonna be taking a thousand times more [TS]

00:59:45   photos like you just can't do that where [TS]

00:59:46   we're taking a photo where we have a [TS]

00:59:47   second for our entire lives 24 hours day [TS]

00:59:49   that's just video and I don't think we [TS]

00:59:50   on record every second so I am much more [TS]

00:59:53   optimistic than Joe lying about this but [TS]

00:59:55   I would recommend people think about the [TS]

00:59:57   password share anything like Casey said [TS]

00:59:59   diversify [TS]

00:59:59   diversify [TS]

01:00:00   I your photo backups and maybe get a [TS]

01:00:02   couple of them and print them and [TS]

01:00:03   hanging on your wall so you can look at [TS]

01:00:04   them all you're still alive [TS]

01:00:06   Brad Ringel asks it's been discussed a [TS]

01:00:09   bit but can you give a brief rundown of [TS]

01:00:10   how you decided on a camera to buy in [TS]

01:00:13   suggestions for a beginner I will start [TS]

01:00:16   and say that what I had done was look [TS]

01:00:20   around at my friends and try to figure [TS]

01:00:21   out what was something that felt at kind [TS]

01:00:25   of entry-level and approachable with and [TS]

01:00:28   also was was reasonably easy to carry [TS]

01:00:31   physically because it wasn't you know [TS]

01:00:32   the size of a DSLR and so I have an [TS]

01:00:35   Olympus om-d e-m1 [TS]

01:00:37   in the show notes to a couple actually [TS]

01:00:39   two or three year old review now of of [TS]

01:00:41   that camera it's the one I still use [TS]

01:00:44   this is a micro 4/3 camera and it has [TS]

01:00:48   interchangeable lenses and so I spent a [TS]

01:00:50   fair bit of money on well what I thought [TS]

01:00:52   was a fair bit of money on both the body [TS]

01:00:54   and one really nice prime lens that [TS]

01:00:56   prime lens lasted me for the first [TS]

01:00:58   couple of years I had the camera and [TS]

01:01:00   then about a year ago I added a zoom [TS]

01:01:02   lens I chose this because Sean Blanc [TS]

01:01:05   Blanc Blanc I forget how you pronounce [TS]

01:01:07   this longer name Thank You Sean Blanc [TS]

01:01:10   head recommended it very very strongly [TS]

01:01:13   and I love this camera by no means is it [TS]

01:01:16   the best camera in the entire world [TS]

01:01:17   but I love it and and it is done right [TS]

01:01:21   by me and helped me get better as a [TS]

01:01:24   photographer because it allow and not to [TS]

01:01:26   say that's unique to this camera by any [TS]

01:01:28   stretch but but this one is very good [TS]

01:01:30   because it allows interchangeable lenses [TS]

01:01:31   and it allows me to do things like shoot [TS]

01:01:34   an aperture priority which is to say I [TS]

01:01:36   can concentrate on getting one thing [TS]

01:01:37   right and the rest of it will just [TS]

01:01:39   automatically happen again I'm not [TS]

01:01:40   saying that's unique to this camera but [TS]

01:01:42   that's kind of how I got started and [TS]

01:01:44   that's generally speaking how I still [TS]

01:01:45   shoot today and suggestions for a [TS]

01:01:48   beginner you know everyone says this not [TS]

01:01:50   remember Marco you and you and me and [TS]

01:01:52   Aaron and TIFF were sitting in some [TS]

01:01:54   restaurant in New York forever ago and [TS]

01:01:56   we were talking about cameras and I [TS]

01:01:58   remember you and TIFF saying to me there [TS]

01:02:01   are two rules to being a good [TS]

01:02:03   photographer number one never use the [TS]

01:02:04   flash and number two take a bazillion [TS]

01:02:07   pictures because if you take a bazillion [TS]

01:02:09   pictures at least one of them will be [TS]

01:02:11   okay and I really [TS]

01:02:13   think as as cliche and is silly and as [TS]

01:02:16   frustrating as that may sound to a [TS]

01:02:18   beginner that really really is the case [TS]

01:02:20   like I would recommend getting enough of [TS]

01:02:23   a camera that that you feel like you've [TS]

01:02:26   got something interesting and special [TS]

01:02:28   and that doesn't have to be very [TS]

01:02:29   expensive by any means but enough that [TS]

01:02:31   maybe you can get a little bokeh bouquet [TS]

01:02:33   however you pronounce it but but other [TS]

01:02:36   than that just try to avoid the flash it [TS]

01:02:38   takes a lot of pictures and I think [TS]

01:02:40   that's sufficient so John let's go to [TS]

01:02:42   you next what do you recommend I [TS]

01:02:44   basically bought the camera marker told [TS]

01:02:46   me too many things in life but I the [TS]

01:02:51   caveat though I did he also told me [TS]

01:02:53   about lens rentals and so before before [TS]

01:02:56   I bought it I'm pretty sure you guys may [TS]

01:02:57   remember that dude didn't I didn't I [TS]

01:02:58   rent the back camera first before I [TS]

01:03:00   decided to plunk down the money for it I [TS]

01:03:01   believe you did it was either that one [TS]

01:03:02   or its predecessor and I did the same by [TS]

01:03:05   the way yeah no it was it was a 63 and I [TS]

01:03:07   remember when Marko recommended it I [TS]

01:03:08   wasn't I wasn't that keen on it because [TS]

01:03:10   I wanted like I basically wanted a fancy [TS]

01:03:12   camera but then I used Marcos a7 r2 or [TS]

01:03:16   whatever used to have and it just seemed [TS]

01:03:17   too big and so then I'm like are maybe [TS]

01:03:19   he was right this moment so I rented it [TS]

01:03:20   and liked it and bought it and I didn't [TS]

01:03:22   honestly I didn't shop around that too [TS]

01:03:23   much because that's that's a service [TS]

01:03:24   both wirecutter and Marco provide if you [TS]

01:03:26   don't want to spend a year researching [TS]

01:03:28   stuff I did actually spend a very long [TS]

01:03:30   time researching super zooms because I [TS]

01:03:31   had experience with a couple of them and [TS]

01:03:33   I'm like let me just find a successor to [TS]

01:03:35   my family camera and I get my super zoom [TS]

01:03:37   and I could never find one that would [TS]

01:03:38   seem like it was a win over what I was [TS]

01:03:40   doing so yeah so ask friends who know [TS]

01:03:43   stuff about cameras and before you plunk [TS]

01:03:46   down a large amount of money it seems [TS]

01:03:49   large to someone who doesn't buy fancy [TS]

01:03:51   cameras consider something like lens [TS]

01:03:53   Rendell's where it seems like oh my gosh [TS]

01:03:55   am i paying to rent this but it's [TS]

01:03:56   cheaper than buying the camera and [TS]

01:03:58   realizing you don't want it and having [TS]

01:03:59   to you know find a way to sell it at a [TS]

01:04:00   loss and everything so that that I think [TS]

01:04:05   that works me honestly the aging [TS]

01:04:06   internet you know if you don't know [TS]

01:04:08   Marco personally there is the the wire [TS]

01:04:10   cutter there is DP review you can find [TS]

01:04:13   the information out there and then just [TS]

01:04:15   come up with a couple candidates borrow [TS]

01:04:17   or rent them to see which one you like [TS]

01:04:19   and then go for it I agree with Casey go [TS]

01:04:23   I kind of like it Mac storage go a [TS]

01:04:25   little bit more than you [TS]

01:04:26   like save money for an extra six months [TS]

01:04:29   if you have to because you will never [TS]

01:04:31   regret getting a slightly nicer camera [TS]

01:04:32   you may regret getting a slightly bigger [TS]

01:04:34   camera so that's why I say use it and [TS]

01:04:36   see if you feel like does this camera [TS]

01:04:37   fit into my life but make it make it [TS]

01:04:41   something special especially in the age [TS]

01:04:42   of our phone cameras are also good if [TS]

01:04:44   you're gonna buy a camera camera that [TS]

01:04:46   all does is camera stuff make it better [TS]

01:04:49   enough than your phone camera that it's [TS]

01:04:51   not close and that will make you excited [TS]

01:04:53   to use your quote-unquote good camera [TS]

01:04:55   like I do take a lot of pictures with my [TS]

01:04:57   phone and take video with my phone but I [TS]

01:04:59   really like my fancy and not that fancy [TS]

01:05:02   but my my quote-unquote real camera I [TS]

01:05:05   really like that I use it a lot you know [TS]

01:05:07   not all the time not every day but I [TS]

01:05:09   like knowing that it's there I'm gonna [TS]

01:05:10   do use it you know like I said 2,000 [TS]

01:05:12   pictures coming home from the ocean from [TS]

01:05:13   one day that's a good time for me yeah [TS]

01:05:16   and I would just like to quickly double [TS]

01:05:18   down on what you said about lens rentals [TS]

01:05:21   I view sled in rentals comm they've [TS]

01:05:22   never sponsored I rented the camera that [TS]

01:05:26   I now have before we bought one and got [TS]

01:05:28   a chance to play with it for a few days [TS]

01:05:29   and in fact I rented it to take well I [TS]

01:05:33   had my dad do it but to take maternity [TS]

01:05:35   shots for Aaron before before Declan was [TS]

01:05:38   born and I got to spend some time with [TS]

01:05:40   it you know dad took these really [TS]

01:05:41   beautiful pictures with it and he's not [TS]

01:05:44   a photographer you know he just was able [TS]

01:05:45   to take really good shots with with a [TS]

01:05:47   combination of this body in this lens [TS]

01:05:49   and so I completely agree with John and [TS]

01:05:52   I think Marko was the one who originally [TS]

01:05:54   recommended it to me as well you know [TS]

01:05:55   just take a spin with whatever camera [TS]

01:05:57   you're looking at and it cost me like [TS]

01:05:59   150 bucks or something like that to get [TS]

01:06:01   the camera for a few days than the lens [TS]

01:06:02   I wanted for a few days but it was worth [TS]

01:06:05   its price and gold because it made me [TS]

01:06:07   know that this like 1,500 or 2,000 [TS]

01:06:09   dollar expenditure I ended up spending [TS]

01:06:11   was worth it [TS]

01:06:12   so Marco what would you say about this [TS]

01:06:15   you know what's what's a good set of [TS]

01:06:17   tips for a beginner you guys have [TS]

01:06:19   actually covered it really well I don't [TS]

01:06:21   have that much more to add to cue me [TS]

01:06:23   talk for 20 minutes now you know I know [TS]

01:06:27   myself pretty well so yeah I mean [TS]

01:06:31   definitely you know renting before you [TS]

01:06:33   buy is very valuable because you know [TS]

01:06:35   you spent that you know hundred fifty [TS]

01:06:36   bucks and you know it you know good ol [TS]

01:06:38   entrances comet I think there are other [TS]

01:06:40   sites [TS]

01:06:40   I've always used lens rentals and I've [TS]

01:06:41   had excellent experiences with them over [TS]

01:06:44   the years over a pretty long time over [TS]

01:06:46   lots of different rentals of lots of [TS]

01:06:48   different things a few times I needed [TS]

01:06:50   the customer service it was excellent [TS]

01:06:51   every time and they're a pretty big [TS]

01:06:53   operation and pretty reputable so highly [TS]

01:06:55   recommend lens rentals you're right they [TS]

01:06:57   have never sponsored us I don't think [TS]

01:06:58   they ever would sponsor us but now they [TS]

01:07:00   don't need to because we're giving so [TS]

01:07:04   you know because you know not only did [TS]

01:07:06   you learn you know what that you [TS]

01:07:09   basically got confirmation that what you [TS]

01:07:11   wanted to buy was probably a good idea [TS]

01:07:13   but you know in some cases it can teach [TS]

01:07:16   you that you don't want to buy something [TS]

01:07:17   like if you rent it and you learn you [TS]

01:07:20   know actually this is too big or the [TS]

01:07:22   handling doesn't work out for me or [TS]

01:07:23   whatever like it's useful for that it's [TS]

01:07:24   also useful for like if there's some [TS]

01:07:26   really expensive piece of gear whether [TS]

01:07:29   it's a camera or a lens usually more [TS]

01:07:30   often hence the name something that you [TS]

01:07:33   don't need very often like there was a [TS]

01:07:36   like I was shooting the talk show live [TS]

01:07:39   at everybody see two years ago and I [TS]

01:07:42   shot it with a rented lens because like [TS]

01:07:44   I knew I would need a certain type of [TS]

01:07:46   zoom lens to do it to do a really good [TS]

01:07:48   job with it but it's a lens that I [TS]

01:07:50   hardly ever need in my daily life and it [TS]

01:07:52   was very expensive to buy so I just [TS]

01:07:54   rented it for the week and it was way [TS]

01:07:55   less money and I learned as I was [TS]

01:07:57   running it like wow I'm so glad I don't [TS]

01:07:58   own this lens because giant and heavy [TS]

01:08:00   and I really don't want to have this you [TS]

01:08:03   know most of the time I only very rarely [TS]

01:08:05   need it [TS]

01:08:05   so it's it's nice to actually consider [TS]

01:08:07   the possibility of renting things just [TS]

01:08:11   as part of the way you operate in the in [TS]

01:08:13   the camera road because there is so much [TS]

01:08:15   like incredibly specialized gear that [TS]

01:08:18   you might need twice or once and then [TS]

01:08:22   it's it's probably not worth buying it [TS]

01:08:23   for that but for those one or two times [TS]

01:08:26   it's really really nice [TS]

01:08:28   yeah and that actually is a really great [TS]

01:08:31   point as well because after I had had my [TS]

01:08:33   camera for a couple of years I had my [TS]

01:08:36   eye on a zoom lens and I forget the [TS]

01:08:38   specifics but I want to say it was like [TS]

01:08:40   a 100 to 300 millimeter zoom which is [TS]

01:08:41   something like double that in a DSLR [TS]

01:08:44   maybe half that I forget how it all [TS]

01:08:46   works out but it was a what it ended up [TS]

01:08:48   that it was like a really really really [TS]

01:08:50   strong zoom and so you [TS]

01:08:53   had to be like you know 20 30 40 feet [TS]

01:08:56   away from your subject before it was [TS]

01:08:58   even useful and then and then that's [TS]

01:08:59   when it started to be useful and again [TS]

01:09:01   I'm making up the details here but it [TS]

01:09:03   was something along those lines and so I [TS]

01:09:05   rented it for a week and I actually [TS]

01:09:06   strictly being Aaron rented it for me [TS]

01:09:08   for like a birthday present or something [TS]

01:09:09   because she knew I was looking at it and [TS]

01:09:11   it turns out it was a terrible lens and [TS]

01:09:14   I was so thankful that Aaron had spent [TS]

01:09:16   the money to rent it for me because I [TS]

01:09:17   then knew that it wasn't worth the like [TS]

01:09:19   eight hundred dollars or whatever it [TS]

01:09:20   cost to get that lens and and the zoom [TS]

01:09:22   lens I ended up with was quite a bit [TS]

01:09:24   different and I knew that because I then [TS]

01:09:26   rented that lens and in spent some time [TS]

01:09:29   with it and knew that it was worth the [TS]

01:09:30   money so yeah I completely completely [TS]

01:09:33   double down triple down even on the lens [TS]

01:09:35   rentals idea I couldn't recommend it [TS]

01:09:37   enough yeah and to expand a little bit [TS]

01:09:40   on what John said about like you know [TS]

01:09:42   renting it and and or you know getting [TS]

01:09:45   it getting a handle on like how it feels [TS]

01:09:47   and you know possibly regretting things [TS]

01:09:49   like size and and weight you know blade [TS]

01:09:52   down the road or a battery life yes life [TS]

01:09:56   I would say one of the best things you [TS]

01:09:59   can do if you're in the market for a [TS]

01:10:00   camera is to go to a store that has them [TS]

01:10:02   in person and to actually be able to [TS]

01:10:04   look at them in person next to each [TS]

01:10:07   other and you know like you know do some [TS]

01:10:09   basic research before you get to the [TS]

01:10:10   store just you know like roughly what [TS]

01:10:11   models offer the kinds of things that [TS]

01:10:13   you're looking for but actually pick [TS]

01:10:15   them up and see them in person and see [TS]

01:10:16   them next to each other try to handle [TS]

01:10:18   them see like certain ones like you know [TS]

01:10:20   cameras these days have so many [TS]

01:10:21   capabilities but they're also oftentimes [TS]

01:10:24   very small and so ergo nom --ax we can [TS]

01:10:26   become a pretty big challenge in a lot [TS]

01:10:29   of them usability of the various menus [TS]

01:10:31   and controls and dials and everything [TS]

01:10:33   these are all pretty major factors that [TS]

01:10:36   differ significantly between different [TS]

01:10:38   models and so anything you can do to get [TS]

01:10:41   your hands on you know that's it's the [TS]

01:10:43   precursor to renting with basically [TS]

01:10:44   anything you can do to get your hands on [TS]

01:10:46   them and see them in person before you [TS]

01:10:49   decide because you can you can read a [TS]

01:10:52   review or you can hear me say something [TS]

01:10:54   about a certain model or you can go to [TS]

01:10:56   the wire cutter and you can go to DP [TS]

01:10:58   review and you can spend hours and hours [TS]

01:10:59   and hours I have on these sites like [TS]

01:11:02   when you're trying to make a decision on [TS]

01:11:04   what camera to buy for you or what's [TS]

01:11:06   right for you and [TS]

01:11:07   no that's good you should do some of [TS]

01:11:10   that but like the the model of like [TS]

01:11:14   trying to figure out like what is the [TS]

01:11:16   one camera you should buy in this price [TS]

01:11:18   range you know that that's that really [TS]

01:11:20   does is not a great model for this [TS]

01:11:22   because different cameras will work for [TS]

01:11:24   different people and there there really [TS]

01:11:26   isn't like one great model that everyone [TS]

01:11:29   should buy any in each price range or in [TS]

01:11:31   each size category like I was able to [TS]

01:11:33   give John a decent recommendation for [TS]

01:11:35   him because I had more information about [TS]

01:11:38   what he wanted and he and he had used my [TS]

01:11:40   medium sized one and so like it's like [TS]

01:11:43   there was there was more to go on but if [TS]

01:11:45   you just go to some site that tries to [TS]

01:11:46   pick like here's the one camera you [TS]

01:11:48   should get in this category that might [TS]

01:11:50   not be right for you so anything you can [TS]

01:11:52   do to see them in person to use them [TS]

01:11:54   whether it's going to a store or renting [TS]

01:11:56   one that you think you might want to buy [TS]

01:11:58   or both you know ideally like you kind [TS]

01:12:00   of narrow down as you go it's invaluable [TS]

01:12:02   because really the the camera the [TS]

01:12:05   cameras that are out there chant like [TS]

01:12:06   they are so different in how they handle [TS]

01:12:08   and a lot of times a camera that might [TS]

01:12:11   not have like the best sensor or like [TS]

01:12:13   the best technical specs in certain [TS]

01:12:15   areas a lot of times like if it just [TS]

01:12:18   handles better you will you will end up [TS]

01:12:20   using it more or you will enjoy using it [TS]

01:12:22   more because of you know just the the [TS]

01:12:25   physical differences or the other [TS]

01:12:26   differences that aren't just like the [TS]

01:12:28   sensor quality and this is a lesson I've [TS]

01:12:31   often not learned fully when I've made [TS]

01:12:33   certain decisions but like you know I I [TS]

01:12:34   try to recover from that try to you know [TS]

01:12:37   get better over time because it just it [TS]

01:12:39   matters so so much like just how it [TS]

01:12:42   handles how it behaves how it performs [TS]

01:12:44   in your hand in like the mechanics of [TS]

01:12:47   using it like one of the ones that I [TS]

01:12:50   that I have heard great things about and [TS]

01:12:52   I have very little experience with them [TS]

01:12:54   is the Fuji X line people love these [TS]

01:12:58   things like there is the xt-1 the XT to [TS]

01:13:00   the X 100 I haven't followed them too [TS]

01:13:03   closely but these are cameras that like [TS]

01:13:06   the they often don't perform top-notch [TS]

01:13:09   in certain spec comparisons but people [TS]

01:13:12   just love them because of their [TS]

01:13:14   ergonomic and their mechanics and things [TS]

01:13:15   like that that's the kind of thing you [TS]

01:13:17   want to look for similarly like you know [TS]

01:13:20   it's hard to understand the appeal of [TS]

01:13:21   light [TS]

01:13:21   cameras because Leica's are very very [TS]

01:13:24   expensive like eye watering Li expensive [TS]

01:13:27   and you think why would anybody buy that [TS]

01:13:29   when you know like the sensor doesn't [TS]

01:13:31   perform any better than like a so many [TS]

01:13:32   sensors only that and and a couple of [TS]

01:13:34   times I've had a chance to actually [TS]

01:13:35   handle a like a camera and they like [TS]

01:13:39   there is a certain degree of like wow [TS]

01:13:41   this is just really nicely handling it's [TS]

01:13:44   nice its responsive it feels good it [TS]

01:13:46   like I feel good using it like there's [TS]

01:13:48   there is some degree of that and it's [TS]

01:13:49   like there are these other factors when [TS]

01:13:52   you're when you're looking at the and by [TS]

01:13:53   the way this this does not apply just to [TS]

01:13:55   cameras there are these other factors [TS]

01:13:57   when you look at a binding station like [TS]

01:13:59   this where you can do as many spec [TS]

01:14:01   comparisons as you want on paper and on [TS]

01:14:03   websites and everything but it's really [TS]

01:14:05   hard to do a really it's really hard to [TS]

01:14:08   know how much you're gonna actually love [TS]

01:14:11   using it until you actually get a chance [TS]

01:14:13   to try it and that's that's again that's [TS]

01:14:15   why we say go see these things in the [TS]

01:14:17   store if you can rent one like those are [TS]

01:14:20   great options and and for something like [TS]

01:14:22   this that's that's so personal and and [TS]

01:14:24   we're not everyone has the same [TS]

01:14:26   requirements that's pretty good and then [TS]

01:14:28   finally to definitely definitely echo [TS]

01:14:30   what John said you you want a camera [TS]

01:14:34   that is going to be a lot better than [TS]

01:14:36   your phone if it isn't a lot better than [TS]

01:14:38   your phone you should not buy it there [TS]

01:14:41   is no reason for you to buy a camera [TS]

01:14:42   that's only a little better than your [TS]

01:14:43   phone and phone cameras are really good [TS]

01:14:46   and they keep getting better at a at an [TS]

01:14:48   alarming pace they keep remarkably [TS]

01:14:51   better and so I would say it is you know [TS]

01:14:55   generally speaking I mean there are [TS]

01:14:56   exceptions it's hard to give like a firm [TS]

01:14:58   but like a price floor here that's [TS]

01:15:00   that's meaningful but I would say if [TS]

01:15:02   you're spending less than probably a [TS]

01:15:04   thousand dollars you're probably not [TS]

01:15:07   getting a quality jump that that makes [TS]

01:15:10   sense in the role of today's smartphones [TS]

01:15:11   especially if you are listening to the [TS]

01:15:13   show you're probably an iPhone user [TS]

01:15:14   you're probably a user of fairly recent [TS]

01:15:17   iPhone and that's yeah that's gonna be [TS]

01:15:20   hard to beat with anything below a [TS]

01:15:21   thousand dollars in in in a lot of [TS]

01:15:23   situations most of the recommendations [TS]

01:15:26   that I give are in the one to three [TS]

01:15:29   thousand dollar range and that's a lot [TS]

01:15:31   of money and you have to you have to ask [TS]

01:15:33   yourself like is that really worth it [TS]

01:15:35   if for a lot of people it isn't or like [TS]

01:15:37   you know you might go through all this [TS]

01:15:39   and realize you know actually I still [TS]

01:15:40   take most my pictures on my phone [TS]

01:15:41   because my phone's always with me and [TS]

01:15:43   the cameras keep getting better and they [TS]

01:15:45   offer you know more interesting features [TS]

01:15:47   in a lot of cases like like live photos [TS]

01:15:49   and you know automatic HDR and stuff [TS]

01:15:52   that like other cameras can do sometimes [TS]

01:15:55   or it can do some of these things but [TS]

01:15:56   they're clunky or don't work as well or [TS]

01:15:58   harder to use or you know so it's like a [TS]

01:16:00   camera a standalone camera these days [TS]

01:16:02   has to be way better than your phone to [TS]

01:16:05   make it worth buying and to make sure [TS]

01:16:07   you'll actually use it on a regular [TS]

01:16:09   basis so if you're not willing or able [TS]

01:16:12   to spend over a thousand dollars I would [TS]

01:16:16   say easily on some on a camera and a [TS]

01:16:19   couple of lenses for it I would say it's [TS]

01:16:21   probably not worth it you should [TS]

01:16:22   probably just get the best phone you can [TS]

01:16:24   and use its camera that oh please rights [TS]

01:16:28   have any of you used or played the [TS]

01:16:31   notoriety card in your day-to-day life [TS]

01:16:33   to get something you wanted and I will [TS]

01:16:35   start with John I put this question in [TS]

01:16:38   here because I want to re-emphasize to [TS]

01:16:42   people exactly how little notoriety [TS]

01:16:47   seems like like there is no car to play [TS]

01:16:51   even at WWC where we are that is the the [TS]

01:16:54   maximum of our fame and notoriety is [TS]

01:16:57   like we're there with the highest [TS]

01:16:59   percentage chance that people know who [TS]

01:17:00   we are as like at WWDC even there I have [TS]

01:17:04   never had a way to parlay my notoriety [TS]

01:17:09   into pretty much anything except for [TS]

01:17:13   perhaps giving me the confidence to go [TS]

01:17:16   up and talk to somebody who I might not [TS]

01:17:18   otherwise even though I don't have an [TS]

01:17:19   expectation they're gonna know who I am [TS]

01:17:21   I [TS]

01:17:21   that's the I guess as my answer it's [TS]

01:17:23   like I have never played the notoriety [TS]

01:17:25   card because there's no card to be [TS]

01:17:26   played but my impression of my own [TS]

01:17:29   notoriety in very specific circumstances [TS]

01:17:31   were a specific kind of nerd gathers for [TS]

01:17:34   a week it has given me the confidence to [TS]

01:17:37   overcome what would normally be my [TS]

01:17:39   equation I'd never talked into the human [TS]

01:17:40   being to go talk to somebody and [TS]

01:17:42   introduce myself most people you know if [TS]

01:17:45   you don't have my personnel you don't [TS]

01:17:46   need that [TS]

01:17:47   with confidence but but I really really [TS]

01:17:49   want to emphasize listeners we have no [TS]

01:17:50   no no right no one knows who we are no [TS]

01:17:52   one knows what a podcast is well maybe [TS]

01:17:53   now it's zero they do podcast what's [TS]

01:17:55   that you know serial I think I've heard [TS]

01:17:57   of that anyway that's that's my answer [TS]

01:17:59   mark oh I don't think I have used it in [TS]

01:18:02   a useful way because of you know what [TS]

01:18:04   John said it's like you know if you [TS]

01:18:08   actually would take that risk and say [TS]

01:18:10   hey do you know who I am like chances [TS]

01:18:12   are the answer you're gonna get back is [TS]

01:18:14   nope that's not a good risk take it you [TS]

01:18:18   know even if you can get over the fact [TS]

01:18:19   that the best-case scenario they do know [TS]

01:18:22   who you are and you've just been a huge [TS]

01:18:24   jerk that's that is yeah that that's not [TS]

01:18:28   my style that's not how I interact with [TS]

01:18:30   the world even if I knew I could get [TS]

01:18:33   away with it I would still not try to do [TS]

01:18:36   it because that's just I don't want to [TS]

01:18:38   do that but John is correct in reality [TS]

01:18:41   there is almost nowhere where we could [TS]

01:18:44   be where we can pull a card like that [TS]

01:18:47   and have it actually work like maybe [TS]

01:18:49   maybe at our own live show like like in [TS]

01:18:55   the room seconds after we've walked [TS]

01:18:58   offstage [TS]

01:18:59   maybe but anywhere else that would not [TS]

01:19:03   work at all and yeah that's that's not [TS]

01:19:05   we don't have any degree of actual fame [TS]

01:19:08   in any context where this would even be [TS]

01:19:11   a possibility let alone the fact that I [TS]

01:19:14   think none of the three of us have the [TS]

01:19:16   personality type to actually try to pull [TS]

01:19:18   a car like that well there was there was [TS]

01:19:19   that one time where I wished that it [TS]

01:19:21   worked where I forgot my wallet and I [TS]

01:19:22   couldn't pick up my hardware and I had [TS]

01:19:23   to drive all the way back home and it's [TS]

01:19:25   not any special treatments because I [TS]

01:19:27   didn't want to drive all the way back [TS]

01:19:28   home because I I felt dumb for leaving [TS]

01:19:29   my wallet you know at home I got I [TS]

01:19:31   couldn't pick up my thing at the Apple [TS]

01:19:32   store I didn't actually do it I did [TS]

01:19:35   jokingly offer well just google my name [TS]

01:19:37   and my picture will come up and it was [TS]

01:19:40   half joking but I was kind of it's kind [TS]

01:19:42   of half serious like you need to know I [TS]

01:19:44   am Who I am [TS]

01:19:45   type my name into a Google search box [TS]

01:19:46   but just I had to drive all the way back [TS]

01:19:48   home and that's again not that's just me [TS]

01:19:51   trying to save myself commuting time so [TS]

01:19:53   I don't feel quite as dumb for leaving [TS]

01:19:55   home without my wife but that is does [TS]

01:19:56   the one time and and notes like it [TS]

01:19:59   wasn't I didn't say why they should go [TS]

01:20:00   go my name and [TS]

01:20:01   I might come up of course that would [TS]

01:20:02   never do that and they didn't know and [TS]

01:20:05   didn't care and I had to get my friggin [TS]

01:20:06   wallet I think it is really really gross [TS]

01:20:11   to try to be like oh don't you know who [TS]

01:20:15   I am so let me tell you about the three [TS]

01:20:17   times that I did it the first time I was [TS]

01:20:19   the first boys I forget I guess was I [TS]

01:20:24   don't remember what year it was but [TS]

01:20:26   maybe was 2016 I guess that I tried [TS]

01:20:29   emailing a few people at Apple and being [TS]

01:20:31   like hey I don't have a WWDC ticket huh [TS]

01:20:35   maybe I could do something about that [TS]

01:20:37   didn't work the second time was when I [TS]

01:20:41   was trying to get my current job and I [TS]

01:20:43   don't know if it's really being like Do [TS]

01:20:45   You Know Who I am but I definitely [TS]

01:20:46   mentioned that I had a popular Apple [TS]

01:20:48   podcast on my resume and the reason I [TS]

01:20:49   did that was because I was trying to [TS]

01:20:51   switch careers from being a Microsoft [TS]

01:20:53   developer to being an apple developer [TS]

01:20:54   and I was trying to figure out any [TS]

01:20:58   justifiable reason to hear me at that [TS]

01:21:01   point and to and to take a risk on me [TS]

01:21:04   the final time is one that you two did [TS]

01:21:06   not know about and I wasn't planning on [TS]

01:21:09   telling you about and I'm only going to [TS]

01:21:10   talk about it very very lightly because [TS]

01:21:15   I'm trying to think of how to describe [TS]

01:21:16   this without giving it away it it was [TS]

01:21:20   offered to me because of this show so it [TS]

01:21:23   was not really I do you know who I am [TS]

01:21:25   but it was offered to me because of the [TS]

01:21:27   show and because of a friend that [TS]

01:21:31   listens to the show would you like to [TS]

01:21:35   get access to a to a car from the press [TS]

01:21:38   fleet from a manufacturer that that none [TS]

01:21:43   of us would normally have access to to [TS]

01:21:46   which I said yes absolutely that car was [TS]

01:21:48   supposed to arrive the week after WWDC [TS]

01:21:51   and by happenstance something happened [TS]

01:21:54   and it didn't work out then that car was [TS]

01:21:56   supposed to arrive a few weeks later and [TS]

01:21:59   when it was traveling from the press [TS]

01:22:00   pool in DC down to me it caught a chip [TS]

01:22:04   in the windshield and they had to turn [TS]

01:22:07   around I haven't heard much since then [TS]

01:22:10   and it's been a month or two so I'm [TS]

01:22:12   guessing that this didn't work out [TS]

01:22:13   in a few months like it by the end of [TS]

01:22:16   the year if I haven't had access to this [TS]

01:22:17   press car I will I will concede may be [TS]

01:22:21   privately may be publicly what it was [TS]

01:22:23   but on the slim chance that I actually [TS]

01:22:26   do get a week with this particular car [TS]

01:22:28   which is a car that I would never [TS]

01:22:30   generally have access to I don't want to [TS]

01:22:33   spoil the surprise but that is somewhat [TS]

01:22:35   sort of kind of me leveraging my do you [TS]

01:22:39   know who I am even though it was offered [TS]

01:22:41   to me I did not request it and that is [TS]

01:22:43   all I'm going to say is it some garbage [TS]

01:22:45   car that we're gonna laugh at like the [TS]

01:22:46   stupid green Jeep Cherokee with like a [TS]

01:22:48   big engine or some crap and first of all [TS]

01:22:51   the Cherokee srt8 is not stupid you big [TS]

01:22:54   just stupid and gross and we know you're [TS]

01:23:01   excited about it is the type of car that [TS]

01:23:02   we're gonna be excited about it car [TS]

01:23:04   would be like a Casey car like numero [TS]

01:23:06   zl1 so monk to me John I would not be [TS]

01:23:11   excited about a Veyron I just want to [TS]

01:23:13   put that out there because I think the [TS]

01:23:14   Veyron is also stupid and gross so I [TS]

01:23:16   only have one question about the car and [TS]

01:23:18   you know what it is it is not it is not [TS]

01:23:20   a Tesla that was a question [TS]

01:23:22   okay what color is it I don't know but I [TS]

01:23:26   I would guess I would guess that it is [TS]

01:23:29   red and that is all I will say [TS]

01:23:31   interesting I'm interested in Ferraris [TS]

01:23:34   it is not a Ferrari less is the [TS]

01:23:36   California I don't like that one and the [TS]

01:23:38   California they're replacing for the [TS]

01:23:40   Californians also gross what the hell is [TS]

01:23:41   the California replacement chat room I [TS]

01:23:43   love that you'd even be picky about like [TS]

01:23:45   which Ferrari you got to borrow like [TS]

01:23:48   wouldn't you be excited by it I'd be [TS]

01:23:50   like no not that one Shawn you are the [TS]

01:23:53   worst I don't like that one similarly [TS]

01:23:57   come on chat room what's the replacement [TS]

01:24:00   for the California Portofino there we go [TS]

01:24:02   thank you [TS]

01:24:04   better name and it does look nicer than [TS]

01:24:07   the California but it still it's like [TS]

01:24:08   the Ferrari that I don't want I'd rather [TS]

01:24:11   have that weird four-wheel-drive FF [TS]

01:24:13   thing and it well the replacement they [TS]

01:24:15   decided the GT for Lou so and the pre [TS]

01:24:17   pre show that won't be there [TS]

01:24:18   I'd rather have that than the Portofino [TS]

01:24:20   or California [TS]

01:24:23   we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

01:24:25   go to fracture me.com [TS]

01:24:27   slash podcast to learn more and get 10% [TS]

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01:24:39   digital ether they print your photos on [TS]

01:24:42   beautiful pieces of glass and they had a [TS]

01:24:44   laser-cut rigid backing so they're ready [TS]

01:24:46   to display or hang up right out of the [TS]

01:24:48   box they even include the wall anchor if [TS]

01:24:50   you want to put it in the wall just [TS]

01:24:52   upload your digital photo and pick the [TS]

01:24:54   size you want it is that simple the [TS]

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01:25:05   decorating style we have fractures all [TS]

01:25:07   over our house and we get compliments on [TS]

01:25:09   them all the time we were actually just [TS]

01:25:11   talking 10 minutes ago that we're gonna [TS]

01:25:13   order another one because they just make [TS]

01:25:15   wonderful prints for your home they fit [TS]

01:25:17   in they look great they look modern they [TS]

01:25:19   also make wonderful gifts if you have [TS]

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01:25:48   good about it for more information and [TS]

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01:25:52   me.com slash podcast they will ask you [TS]

01:25:55   which podcast you came from make sure to [TS]

01:25:57   tell them you came from a teepee [TS]

01:25:58   that'll help support the show and tell [TS]

01:26:00   them where their ads are working best so [TS]

01:26:02   go to fracture me.com slash podcast to [TS]

01:26:06   get more information and 10% off your [TS]

01:26:08   first order thank you very much to [TS]

01:26:10   fracture for sponsoring our show all [TS]

01:26:15   right so 90 minutes in you want to start [TS]

01:26:17   the show yes I think it's time all of [TS]

01:26:21   our topics are short today so it oh [TS]

01:26:23   really [TS]

01:26:24   okay listeners buckle up let's talk [TS]

01:26:26   about AP FS we're really short topics [TS]

01:26:29   here in the TV seriously ok so let's [TS]

01:26:32   talk about this short topic John the [TS]

01:26:34   clock is ticking [TS]

01:26:35   tell me about AP FS conversion [TS]

01:26:37   in high sierra this is a bit of news [TS]

01:26:39   that was officially published by Apple [TS]

01:26:40   this week or very recently anyway [TS]

01:26:43   between the show and last show they have [TS]

01:26:44   an article will link in the show notes [TS]

01:26:46   official Apple documentation not about [TS]

01:26:48   like betas or whatever but like hey when [TS]

01:26:50   you upgrade to Mac OS High Sierra [TS]

01:26:52   systems with all flash storage will be [TS]

01:26:55   converted automatically to a PFS so if [TS]

01:26:57   you have a Mac and it has flash storage [TS]

01:27:00   and you upgrade to the Mac OS High [TS]

01:27:03   Sierra you are getting converted a PFS [TS]

01:27:05   you cannot opt out of the transition to [TS]

01:27:07   a PFS this is right from their [TS]

01:27:09   documentation so it's not like as in the [TS]

01:27:11   beta is like oh you can convert or not [TS]

01:27:13   convert and decide later or whatever if [TS]

01:27:15   you upgrade the High Sierra and you got [TS]

01:27:16   flash you're getting it even if you have [TS]

01:27:17   a third-party flash drive we have one [TS]

01:27:19   listen to write in to say I have a Mac [TS]

01:27:21   bit ship with a spinning disk but I [TS]

01:27:22   replaced it with SSD [TS]

01:27:23   upgrade to High Sierra automatic upgrade [TS]

01:27:26   to a PFS a lot of people installed one [TS]

01:27:28   of the later High Sierra betas and [TS]

01:27:30   didn't even realize they had been [TS]

01:27:31   converted to a PFS because like how [TS]

01:27:32   would you even tell because it doesn't [TS]

01:27:33   ask you anything about it it just does [TS]

01:27:35   it right if you have a hard disk or a [TS]

01:27:38   fusion drive you won't be converted I [TS]

01:27:41   don't know if that means you can't be I [TS]

01:27:42   think you still go to Disk Utility and [TS]

01:27:44   decide to convert your thing but anyway [TS]

01:27:45   that's what they're doing it's a very [TS]

01:27:47   simple straightforward policy and [TS]

01:27:50   there's no choice in the matter and [TS]

01:27:51   we're all just going to deal with it a [TS]

01:27:53   couple people have reported their Mac's [TS]

01:27:54   being unbootable but there it's still in [TS]

01:27:56   beta and who knows but I suspect the Mac [TS]

01:27:59   transition will be rockier than the iOS [TS]

01:28:01   one and then the only other minor item [TS]

01:28:03   on this page the link is a boot camp [TS]

01:28:05   doesn't read it write a PFS case you [TS]

01:28:07   were wondering I really hope book camp [TS]

01:28:09   continues to be supported [TS]

01:28:10   I hope they write a read-only driver for [TS]

01:28:13   a PFS that you can at least read your [TS]

01:28:14   stuff but right now you won't be able to [TS]

01:28:16   so did boot camp read H of s I think [TS]

01:28:20   there was a read-only driver for HFS [TS]

01:28:21   maybe I'm taking on the other way with [TS]

01:28:23   ahead and may I read only driver for [TS]

01:28:24   NTFS but either way there is some way I [TS]

01:28:26   think you can get HFS volumes you can at [TS]

01:28:28   least read from them on Windows even if [TS]

01:28:30   it's not through Apple stuff but ap Fest [TS]

01:28:31   is just who knew and if anyone was gonna [TS]

01:28:33   do it was gonna be Apple and they didn't [TS]

01:28:34   yet anyway [TS]

01:28:35   yeah this is totally a fine change to me [TS]

01:28:38   like you know they they have this ap FS [TS]

01:28:42   was automatically converted to and [TS]

01:28:43   deployed very widely on iOS devices and [TS]

01:28:46   as far as we know nothing bad happened [TS]

01:28:50   and yes the the problem set is much [TS]

01:28:53   smaller and iOS device so the number of [TS]

01:28:54   possible configurations is much smaller [TS]

01:28:56   you know it's like the edge case count [TS]

01:28:59   is way smaller on iOS but also the [TS]

01:29:02   install base is way bigger the usage is [TS]

01:29:05   way bigger so it seems like a PFS is [TS]

01:29:08   pretty solid and yes I'm sure there are [TS]

01:29:11   error areas like like I believe they [TS]

01:29:14   still haven't done automatic integrity [TS]

01:29:16   checking right the filesystem level yes [TS]

01:29:19   yes check sums I'm metadata only not on [TS]

01:29:22   data right so like there are there areas [TS]

01:29:24   of the filesystem that still could be [TS]

01:29:26   improved you know ideally but what is [TS]

01:29:29   there seems to be pretty solid you know [TS]

01:29:33   the fact they deployed it to every iOS [TS]

01:29:35   device and that's been running now for [TS]

01:29:38   months and it's been totally fine that's [TS]

01:29:41   pretty great so you know we know they're [TS]

01:29:43   doing this carefully we know like that [TS]

01:29:45   like Craig federighi mentioned in the [TS]

01:29:47   talk show live it you see this year how [TS]

01:29:49   light they would a couple of versions [TS]

01:29:51   before that when they deployed to iOS [TS]

01:29:54   they were they would do like test [TS]

01:29:55   migrations and roll them back just at [TS]

01:29:57   just and then like report back if [TS]

01:29:58   anything failed to Apple so they knew [TS]

01:30:00   what was happening there there have been [TS]

01:30:03   some reports somebody pointed out that [TS]

01:30:05   the latest Mac OS 10 update seemed to [TS]

01:30:08   take a very long time to apply and so [TS]

01:30:10   there was a theory that you know maybe [TS]

01:30:12   it was doing the same thing maybe it was [TS]

01:30:13   doing those tests might those test [TS]

01:30:15   migrations that then get rolled back [TS]

01:30:16   before it completed you know like it [TS]

01:30:19   seems like Apple knows how to do this [TS]

01:30:21   there it's already been done on a very [TS]

01:30:24   very large scale and this will be [TS]

01:30:26   relatively speaking a drop in the bucket [TS]

01:30:28   again there are more edge cases on the [TS]

01:30:30   Mac more different configurations that [TS]

01:30:32   can be used more ways people use the [TS]

01:30:33   file system or depend on things work in [TS]

01:30:35   a certain way but I think they're doing [TS]

01:30:37   a pretty good job of it and I trust them [TS]

01:30:39   to do this correctly and carefully so I [TS]

01:30:42   don't think this is bad at all you know [TS]

01:30:45   that was pretty quick I have to concede [TS]

01:30:46   I am stunned [TS]

01:30:48   all right so Marco tell me about the [TS]

01:30:51   lack of home button on the iPhone Pro / [TS]

01:30:54   8 / whatever it's called because there [TS]

01:30:56   seems to have been some news from [TS]

01:30:57   Bloomberg that there will be no physical [TS]

01:31:00   home button on the [TS]

01:31:00   new iphone well we already knew there be [TS]

01:31:03   no physical home button but this was [TS]

01:31:04   this was more about like this is today's [TS]

01:31:07   remember that came out that basically is [TS]

01:31:09   claiming a certain way that the software [TS]

01:31:13   based home button will work that is [TS]

01:31:15   different than we've heard or assumed in [TS]

01:31:17   the past so what we've assumed up till [TS]

01:31:19   now are heard up until now as rumors is [TS]

01:31:21   basically that there would be an area [TS]

01:31:23   basically where the home button is now [TS]

01:31:26   but there would be like an area on the [TS]

01:31:28   phone that you would like push firmly [TS]

01:31:31   there and it would go home and how that [TS]

01:31:34   would be represented on the screen was [TS]

01:31:36   up for debate there was some speculation [TS]

01:31:38   from like the home pod former that maybe [TS]

01:31:40   there's some kind of like home indicator [TS]

01:31:42   that could show or hide different times [TS]

01:31:45   maybe whether it's like a little circle [TS]

01:31:47   down there or a dot or who knows the oh [TS]

01:31:50   this is this whole area we know a lot [TS]

01:31:53   from the home pod leak and from all the [TS]

01:31:55   rumor sites we know some things pretty [TS]

01:31:57   firmly about like the physical design of [TS]

01:32:00   the next iPhone but the whole area that [TS]

01:32:03   I think is most interesting to me is how [TS]

01:32:06   the software will actually deal with [TS]

01:32:07   this physical design and that is where [TS]

01:32:10   that is still mostly unknown to us you [TS]

01:32:13   know of all the leaks including the home [TS]

01:32:15   pod firmware not to mention all the [TS]

01:32:17   rumors there's not you would think at [TS]

01:32:20   first like there's not much surprised [TS]

01:32:21   left for the event but actually to me [TS]

01:32:24   there's tons of surprise left because we [TS]

01:32:25   still don't have concrete solid [TS]

01:32:28   information and we still haven't seen [TS]

01:32:30   how the software will actually deal with [TS]

01:32:32   this bizarre all screen phone with this [TS]

01:32:35   knots on the top that to me is the most [TS]

01:32:36   interesting part and I think most of us [TS]

01:32:38   going to remain a surprise anyway [TS]

01:32:39   Bloomberg's trying to ruin that a little [TS]

01:32:41   bit by supplying by clamping that the [TS]

01:32:43   home button is going to work a totally [TS]

01:32:44   different way that basically instead of [TS]

01:32:46   having like an area that you push at the [TS]

01:32:47   bottom that you're gonna have like a [TS]

01:32:50   swipe up kind of gesture not that [TS]

01:32:52   different from what the iPad does and I [TS]

01:32:54   was living with the doc I like a big [TS]

01:32:56   swipe up gesture to go home instead of [TS]

01:32:59   pushing that area at the bottom and that [TS]

01:33:01   therefore the entire screen basically [TS]

01:33:04   will be usable as regular application [TS]

01:33:07   area not just having that like hole in [TS]

01:33:09   the bottom for a home button and maybe [TS]

01:33:11   help maybe like a like a toolbar area to [TS]

01:33:13   the left [TS]

01:33:14   out of it and if this is true obviously [TS]

01:33:16   this has a lot this raises a lot a lot [TS]

01:33:18   of questions about implementation [TS]

01:33:19   details if this is the direction they go [TS]

01:33:23   I'm certainly that's going to be a major [TS]

01:33:26   change so I'm certainly you know a [TS]

01:33:28   little wary of it but it would it would [TS]

01:33:31   avoid a lot of issues because if you [TS]

01:33:34   think about if they do the the method [TS]

01:33:37   that we assumed before this which is [TS]

01:33:39   they have like a home area that if you [TS]

01:33:41   push there it works like a home button [TS]

01:33:43   which i think is roughly what samsung [TS]

01:33:44   does with their edge to edge thing right [TS]

01:33:46   like I use one in the store and I just [TS]

01:33:47   kind of push down there and it seemed to [TS]

01:33:49   work so I think that's basically what [TS]

01:33:51   Samsung doesn't and that that works fine [TS]

01:33:53   as far as I could tell when I use it for [TS]

01:33:54   two seconds in a Best Buy but if they do [TS]

01:33:57   that it does raise a lot of questions [TS]

01:34:00   about things like well what what happens [TS]

01:34:03   to app UI that's down there [TS]

01:34:05   you know do you do you have tab bars [TS]

01:34:08   still if so like does the tab bar just [TS]

01:34:11   go completely on top of that so that [TS]

01:34:13   that whole bottom half of the screen is [TS]

01:34:15   just a home button and maybe something [TS]

01:34:16   on the lesson right of it that maybe you [TS]

01:34:18   can't control or you don't watch full [TS]

01:34:19   control or you can only put like maybe a [TS]

01:34:21   navigation I'm down there or something [TS]

01:34:22   like that like is it like that because [TS]

01:34:25   if that's the case then that whole [TS]

01:34:27   bottom area is fairly significantly [TS]

01:34:31   wasted like it's not totally wasted but [TS]

01:34:33   like it's it raises the question of why [TS]

01:34:35   even make it a screen if you're not [TS]

01:34:36   gonna have much use for that for that [TS]

01:34:38   area if they let applications put [TS]

01:34:41   content down there but also have like a [TS]

01:34:44   big home button hole in the middle of [TS]

01:34:46   that bottom row then you have to think [TS]

01:34:48   what happens with things like to have [TS]

01:34:50   bars where you typically have like you [TS]

01:34:53   know this row of four or five buttons [TS]

01:34:56   across the bottom of the screen do you [TS]

01:34:58   go with like a two on the left - on the [TS]

01:35:00   right nothing in the middle kind of [TS]

01:35:02   arrangement or something like that and [TS]

01:35:04   just have a big hold and middle of any [TS]

01:35:05   tab bar we goes in there you can that's [TS]

01:35:07   one option it's not a great option but [TS]

01:35:09   you know you can do that the the claimed [TS]

01:35:12   method by this Bloomberg article is that [TS]

01:35:15   it's going to be swipe based and that [TS]

01:35:18   basically that the entire screen will be [TS]

01:35:19   usable for apps or the vast majority the [TS]

01:35:22   screen will use if I ask most of the [TS]

01:35:23   time and there won't be this you know [TS]

01:35:25   hole in the middle of the bottom that is [TS]

01:35:27   reserved for the home button [TS]

01:35:28   that some kind of swipe up from the [TS]

01:35:29   bottom will be used instead to go home [TS]

01:35:32   if so I'm interested to see that that [TS]

01:35:36   that sounds like it would solve some of [TS]

01:35:38   these problems I think it might [TS]

01:35:40   introduce new problems but I don't think [TS]

01:35:43   we know enough as like actual fact just [TS]

01:35:46   speculation to say for sure like [TS]

01:35:48   obviously this is what they're doing and [TS]

01:35:50   we don't know that yet but we also don't [TS]

01:35:52   like we don't have enough information [TS]

01:35:53   here to really know for sure like what [TS]

01:35:56   they're going to do I would also say [TS]

01:35:58   that Bloomberg and Germans record on [TS]

01:36:01   things like this in recent times has [TS]

01:36:03   been pretty spotty so I would not take [TS]

01:36:06   this as fact and would definitely take [TS]

01:36:08   this as a given the thing he does lately [TS]

01:36:10   but I don't understand because it [TS]

01:36:12   doesn't seem like he needs to do this is [TS]

01:36:14   writes about things in the present tense [TS]

01:36:17   like Apple is experimenting with [TS]

01:36:19   different ways of the home button can [TS]

01:36:20   works like Apple perhaps did experiment [TS]

01:36:23   with different ways of the home button [TS]

01:36:24   Network but at this point with the event [TS]

01:36:27   like a week or two away [TS]

01:36:29   Apple is not experimenting with [TS]

01:36:30   different ways different fundamental [TS]

01:36:32   ways to use that bottom half of the [TS]

01:36:34   screen pretty sure they know yeah like [TS]

01:36:36   they picked one by now or even like [TS]

01:36:39   worst case they have to complete [TS]

01:36:40   implementations they're gonna pick [TS]

01:36:42   between but they're not in the [TS]

01:36:43   experimental stage anymore like a chip [TS]

01:36:45   is sale anyway on this particular thing [TS]

01:36:47   about the home button this gives a [TS]

01:36:50   little bit more of the answer of what [TS]

01:36:51   the heck do we get with edge to edge [TS]

01:36:52   screen because if they don't have to [TS]

01:36:53   dedicate any of the bottom of the screen [TS]

01:36:54   to essentially to you I but the app can [TS]

01:36:56   use at all hey I got now I could see [TS]

01:36:58   more tweets right whatever like it's [TS]

01:37:00   it's a benefit you can see it being a [TS]

01:37:01   benefit it makes that part of the screen [TS]

01:37:03   like you're actually using it's not just [TS]

01:37:05   like a virtual representation of the the [TS]

01:37:08   chin on our phones today but but all [TS]

01:37:11   that said if it is swipe based swiping [TS]

01:37:16   on on phones for me and I think I think [TS]

01:37:19   forever just like in general to do a [TS]

01:37:22   successful swipe case or no case [TS]

01:37:25   anything like that is a you have to it's [TS]

01:37:28   like you have to find the right balance [TS]

01:37:30   between how hard you press your finger [TS]

01:37:34   on the screen and how hard you swipe and [TS]

01:37:37   how you hold the phone because obviously [TS]

01:37:38   if you press too hard you get too much [TS]

01:37:40   friction it's hard [TS]

01:37:41   like slide your finger and do the [TS]

01:37:43   gesture if you press too lightly and [TS]

01:37:45   just graze it maybe you won't activate [TS]

01:37:47   especially if like your fingers are cold [TS]

01:37:48   or whatever right so there's a balance [TS]

01:37:51   like you have to it is a it requires [TS]

01:37:54   more finesse to do any kind of swipe [TS]

01:37:57   gesture than it does to do a button [TS]

01:37:59   press virtual or otherwise because with [TS]

01:38:01   a button press you find the place where [TS]

01:38:03   you need to apply the pressure and you [TS]

01:38:05   just bear down and for the most part [TS]

01:38:08   unless you go all the way through and [TS]

01:38:10   activate fourth touch but even so maybe [TS]

01:38:11   that's not that bad it is easier to sort [TS]

01:38:14   of fumble in your pocket and like [TS]

01:38:15   obviously the physical buttons just jam [TS]

01:38:18   the sleep/wake button or Jam your finger [TS]

01:38:20   on on the the home button moving or [TS]

01:38:23   otherwise or if it was the bottom of the [TS]

01:38:25   screen with the virtual thing Jam your [TS]

01:38:26   finger somewhere on the bottom of the [TS]

01:38:28   screen even if you can't feel it because [TS]

01:38:29   now it's just a screen image but a swipe [TS]

01:38:31   requires more finesse and for a move [TS]

01:38:33   that you do so frequently pick up my [TS]

01:38:34   phone put my finger on touch ID unlock [TS]

01:38:36   it open it up pick it up activate it or [TS]

01:38:39   whatever or just hit the home button to [TS]

01:38:41   switch between apps or double tap to do [TS]

01:38:42   the the switcher I'm a little bit wary [TS]

01:38:45   of my ability my dexterity too for that [TS]

01:38:50   maneuver that common maneuver to feel as [TS]

01:38:52   comfortable as it does to me to just [TS]

01:38:54   blindly ham-fisted lee press somewhere [TS]

01:38:57   on the phone wherever that might be [TS]

01:38:59   but I think my wariness will probably [TS]

01:39:02   even if it is slightly worse I think it [TS]

01:39:05   will be made up for by the additional [TS]

01:39:06   screen real estate the screen real [TS]

01:39:08   estate you enjoy all the time and the [TS]

01:39:10   additional dexterity required to pull up [TS]

01:39:12   the swipe things a it's probably only a [TS]

01:39:14   problem for old people like you know you [TS]

01:39:17   know for younger people who are more [TS]

01:39:18   plastic and you're just getting used it [TS]

01:39:19   that was used to it right but be as [TS]

01:39:23   often as you may do that as often as you [TS]

01:39:25   may activate the home button you spend [TS]

01:39:26   way more time staring your front screen [TS]

01:39:28   and scrolling through a list of stuff so [TS]

01:39:29   I think in the end it's going to be a [TS]

01:39:30   trade-off but I am a little bit wary of [TS]

01:39:33   more swipe gestures I just think of all [TS]

01:39:36   the swipe gestures I do on my phone now [TS]

01:39:37   and how occasionally I'm not successful [TS]

01:39:39   at them and that's not a pleasant [TS]

01:39:40   experience whereas I'm pretty much [TS]

01:39:42   always successful at pressing the home [TS]

01:39:43   button [TS]

01:39:43   yeah that's there there's a lot of [TS]

01:39:47   potential for conflicts with that [TS]

01:39:49   gesture like any gesture that involves a [TS]

01:39:51   big swipe from any of the sides of the [TS]

01:39:54   phone [TS]

01:39:55   or in any large direction on the phone [TS]

01:39:57   you're going to have substantial [TS]

01:39:59   conflict risk with that with other [TS]

01:40:01   things within apps or even other system [TS]

01:40:04   gestures you know obviously one of the [TS]

01:40:06   big questions is what do you do with [TS]

01:40:07   control center is it the kind of thing [TS]

01:40:09   where you pull up a little bit and you [TS]

01:40:10   get control center and you pull up a lot [TS]

01:40:12   and you go home or vice versa with that [TS]

01:40:16   weird the same thing haven't I always [TS]

01:40:18   eleven with the most you pull up a [TS]

01:40:19   little bit he brings the doc but if you [TS]

01:40:20   keep pulling it's the other thing and [TS]

01:40:21   even just on iOS ten I found myself I'm [TS]

01:40:24   really good at this gesture but I found [TS]

01:40:25   myself looking at it consciously today [TS]

01:40:27   and realizing how how how good how good [TS]

01:40:29   I am at making this fine distinction [TS]

01:40:31   after lots of practice if you pull down [TS]

01:40:32   from the top of your phone like I think [TS]

01:40:34   if I think notifications my thumb pulls [TS]

01:40:37   down from the top of my phone I see [TS]

01:40:38   notifications if I think launch an [TS]

01:40:40   application that I just launched my [TS]

01:40:42   thumb pulls down from the top of the [TS]

01:40:43   phone and it shows recent applications [TS]

01:40:44   because I'm on springboard there are two [TS]

01:40:46   different gestures you have to start [TS]

01:40:47   above the edge of the screen for the for [TS]

01:40:49   the notifications and below the edge of [TS]

01:40:50   the screen and beyond springboard for [TS]

01:40:52   the apps but I just did them without [TS]

01:40:53   thinking so I guess that's the best-case [TS]

01:40:56   scenario that this is a bottom of the [TS]

01:40:58   phone gesture but it's pretty picky like [TS]

01:41:00   try to explain to somebody the nuances [TS]

01:41:02   of swiping from off the edge of the [TS]

01:41:04   screen versus just swiping sideways I've [TS]

01:41:07   seen many people do the wrong version of [TS]

01:41:09   that to bad effect and not understand [TS]

01:41:11   why they didn't pull it off [TS]

01:41:12   it's learn about but again it's it's [TS]

01:41:15   subtle and it requires much more finesse [TS]

01:41:17   than press this big circular button to [TS]

01:41:19   bring back the place where you see all [TS]

01:41:20   your apps yeah I'm curious to see where [TS]

01:41:23   this goes [TS]

01:41:23   and a lot of people been making [TS]

01:41:25   comparisons to webOS which is presumably [TS]

01:41:28   completely reasonable but I never used a [TS]

01:41:30   webOS device so I don't know squat about [TS]

01:41:32   it but I don't know I'm curious to see [TS]

01:41:34   where this goes and see how it feels and [TS]

01:41:36   in execution because I can tell you that [TS]

01:41:39   for my initial I I only have iOS 11 on [TS]

01:41:41   my iPad and my initial impression of of [TS]

01:41:44   putting it there was where did Control [TS]

01:41:46   Center go and eventually I was able to [TS]

01:41:48   deduce oh you just need to swipe further [TS]

01:41:51   but golly that's that's tough for like a [TS]

01:41:55   normal user that isn't really thinking [TS]

01:41:59   about these sorts of things and and I [TS]

01:42:01   didn't care for it at all at first and [TS]

01:42:03   over time I've gotten used to it the the [TS]

01:42:05   the deep swipe or deep isn't the best [TS]

01:42:08   word but the long sway [TS]

01:42:09   in order to get control center but we'll [TS]

01:42:11   see how it works on the phone I am [TS]

01:42:13   really excited about the prospect of [TS]

01:42:15   having a phone that's sized for humans [TS]

01:42:17   but has screen from the plus so or you [TS]

01:42:22   know roughly anyway so I'm very anxious [TS]

01:42:24   about the thought of being able to buy [TS]

01:42:26   one of those despite the fact that it's [TS]

01:42:28   apparently going to be like over $1000 [TS]

01:42:30   which I'm not too thrilled about but you [TS]

01:42:32   know it is what it is yeah honestly I [TS]

01:42:35   whatever [TS]

01:42:36   acrobatics are required to to have this [TS]

01:42:40   phone work so we want with things like [TS]

01:42:42   touch ID face ID screen sizes edge [TS]

01:42:45   swiping all this stuff I think it's [TS]

01:42:47   probably going to be worth it because [TS]

01:42:49   there's been this tension in the iPhone [TS]

01:42:51   line ever since the introduction of the [TS]

01:42:53   plus size phone which is like like many [TS]

01:42:56   of us myself included want the screen of [TS]

01:42:59   the plus like we want the biggest screen [TS]

01:43:02   we can get but those phones are just too [TS]

01:43:04   big for us to comfortably comfortably [TS]

01:43:06   carry and and use and hold anything else [TS]

01:43:09   so the idea of having a much bigger [TS]

01:43:12   screen in the phone size that we're able [TS]

01:43:15   to carry now like the middle size or [TS]

01:43:17   something very close to it that's [TS]

01:43:19   exactly what everybody wants like that [TS]

01:43:21   that is so desirable that I think we're [TS]

01:43:24   gonna be willing to tolerate quite a lot [TS]

01:43:27   of weirdness and transitions and even [TS]

01:43:30   possibly downsides to get that because [TS]

01:43:32   that that is not a small thing yeah [TS]

01:43:35   anyway thanks for three sponsors this [TS]

01:43:37   week [TS]

01:43:38   Kaspar audible and fracture and we'll [TS]

01:43:41   see you next week [TS]

01:43:44   now the show is over [TS]

01:43:47   they didn't even mean [TS]

01:43:49   because it was accidental oh it was [TS]

01:43:53   accidental John didn't do any research [TS]

01:43:57   Marco Casey wouldn't let him because it [TS]

01:44:01   was accidentally was accidental and you [TS]

01:44:06   can find the show notes at ADP CAS UIL [TS]

01:44:19   ISS so that's Casey list and a acción [TS]

01:44:22   de RM ante Marco Arment [TS]

01:44:27   as IR [TS]

01:44:28   [Music] [TS]

01:44:44   so Casey what is your deep thought about [TS]

01:44:47   batteries as indicated in the show notes [TS]

01:44:49   it's actually a question and it's it's [TS]

01:44:52   probably silly but I was thinking about [TS]

01:44:53   this the other day and I was wondering [TS]

01:44:56   if I could choose and thus I will be [TS]

01:44:59   asking the two of you as well if I could [TS]

01:45:01   choose one corporation that exists today [TS]

01:45:05   to make a just night and day battery [TS]

01:45:08   breakthrough so let's assume for the [TS]

01:45:10   sake of this hypothetical that it takes [TS]

01:45:13   you know one hundredth of the time to [TS]

01:45:16   charge whatever battery we're talking [TS]

01:45:18   about so if it's an iPhone it takes like [TS]

01:45:20   you know a few seconds or something like [TS]

01:45:22   that and if it's a Tesla it takes maybe [TS]

01:45:25   10 minutes or something to go from from [TS]

01:45:27   empty to full or maybe less than that [TS]

01:45:28   given that the superchargers are pretty [TS]

01:45:30   darn quick so if you could pick one and [TS]

01:45:33   only one company to make just an utterly [TS]

01:45:36   amazing battery breakthrough who would [TS]

01:45:40   it be and the obvious answer for the [TS]

01:45:42   three of us that is is Apple because we [TS]

01:45:44   want our iPhones to last forever but I [TS]

01:45:46   think it's bigger than that right so I [TS]

01:45:47   wouldn't right so I never really reached [TS]

01:45:51   a great conclusion which is funny for me [TS]

01:45:54   to be bringing it up I feel like some [TS]

01:45:57   auto manufacturer may be the best answer [TS]

01:46:00   so that we could get into real [TS]

01:46:03   honest-to-goodness electric cars that [TS]

01:46:05   aren't compromise mobiles to be fair the [TS]

01:46:07   Tesla is amazing it is amazing and the [TS]

01:46:10   compromises are made in the best [TS]

01:46:11   possible way but in a lot of ways I [TS]

01:46:13   still feel like it's a series of [TS]

01:46:14   compromises so I feel like some auto [TS]

01:46:17   manufacturer maybe Tesla would be a [TS]

01:46:19   really great answer here but I'm I'm I [TS]

01:46:22   have a feeling after listening to you [TS]

01:46:24   two I will be convinced then maybe [TS]

01:46:25   there's a better choice so John you [TS]

01:46:28   seemed pretty pretty enthusiastic about [TS]

01:46:29   this what would you say if you could [TS]

01:46:31   pick one company to make just a [TS]

01:46:33   tremendous battery breakthrough who [TS]

01:46:35   would it be so it's not a tremendous [TS]

01:46:37   battery breakthrough unless because [TS]

01:46:39   there are battery technology to do what [TS]

01:46:41   you're saying but unless it also works [TS]

01:46:43   out with a cost and manufacturability [TS]

01:46:45   resources so that's what you're talking [TS]

01:46:47   about yes yes that right [TS]

01:46:49   and in the end batteries are a commodity [TS]

01:46:51   so I would ideally this breakthrough it [TS]

01:46:55   would come from academia or something [TS]

01:46:56   not associated with the company that [TS]

01:46:58   would probably be the easiest and gives [TS]

01:47:00   you your best chance not to be [TS]

01:47:02   encumbered by stupid patents or whatever [TS]

01:47:04   but in the end what I want it to be is [TS]

01:47:07   something that is that is able to be [TS]

01:47:12   produced on a large scale by some boring [TS]

01:47:14   company that just produces things on [TS]

01:47:17   large scale so maybe an existing battery [TS]

01:47:19   manufacturer or like you know General [TS]

01:47:22   Motors or Siemens yeah or like any you [TS]

01:47:25   know whatever whatever giant corporation [TS]

01:47:28   that makes commodities of natural [TS]

01:47:30   resources is the least evil right but [TS]

01:47:32   but either way like I don't want it to [TS]

01:47:34   be owned during controlled by a single [TS]

01:47:35   company right and I want it to be the [TS]

01:47:38   type of thing that everybody has access [TS]

01:47:39   to because in the same way that everyone [TS]

01:47:41   you know they're building of all this [TS]

01:47:43   battery capacity for all the electric [TS]

01:47:44   vehicles the car energy is actually not [TS]

01:47:46   a bad place because in general there is [TS]

01:47:49   no there is very little technological [TS]

01:47:52   secret sauce and in terms of the [TS]

01:47:53   commodities like Toyota will sell its [TS]

01:47:56   hybrid powertrain to other people [TS]

01:47:57   they're gonna pay from them some of if [TS]

01:47:58   someone has excess capacity to [TS]

01:47:59   manufacture some commodity type thing [TS]

01:48:01   they will sell to other people right so [TS]

01:48:03   I want it to be a very large company [TS]

01:48:05   that's good at building things you know [TS]

01:48:08   for everybody else in that it's all just [TS]

01:48:10   like I will sell this to everybody who [TS]

01:48:12   wants to sell it and just becomes a [TS]

01:48:13   commodity that everybody is able to [TS]

01:48:14   manufacture because the breakthrough [TS]

01:48:16   happened in academia and all that all [TS]

01:48:18   the patents are freely available um I [TS]

01:48:21   wouldn't want Apple to do it or Tesla or [TS]

01:48:23   any other thing because I'm afraid they [TS]

01:48:24   tried to turn it into a competitive [TS]

01:48:25   advantage that's the last thing we want [TS]

01:48:26   we want the technology to spread [TS]

01:48:28   everywhere far and wide we don't want it [TS]

01:48:30   to be oh this lets Apple and/or Tesla [TS]

01:48:33   extract a an extra six months or a year [TS]

01:48:36   of larger profits because it takes [TS]

01:48:39   longer for everyone else to catch up so [TS]

01:48:40   it's not a very satisfying answer but [TS]

01:48:42   it's just you know but it's not it's not [TS]

01:48:45   the the old world where like there's a [TS]

01:48:47   there's a breakthrough and it belongs to [TS]

01:48:49   a company things like this like battery [TS]

01:48:51   capacity or CPUs or like you know [TS]

01:48:54   whatever material science in general [TS]

01:48:56   should be and generally our [TS]

01:48:58   industry-wide mark oh yeah i think jon [TS]

01:49:02   coker pretty well hey [TS]

01:49:04   you know if obviously like the the right [TS]

01:49:07   answer is basically what John said a [TS]

01:49:08   more interesting specific answer like if [TS]

01:49:11   you think about what types of products [TS]

01:49:15   or uses are really held back by battery [TS]

01:49:18   technology today and you can look at [TS]

01:49:20   things like you know computers and [TS]

01:49:21   phones and and you know the tech gadgets [TS]

01:49:23   that we all use and in many ways we're [TS]

01:49:26   doing just fine like yeah everyone [TS]

01:49:29   everyone could look we would all love [TS]

01:49:31   more battery life we would all love to [TS]

01:49:33   not have to plug in ever or to have to [TS]

01:49:35   actually be able to use the amazing [TS]

01:49:37   computing resources that are in these [TS]

01:49:39   mobile devices frequently and all day [TS]

01:49:42   without having to like massively [TS]

01:49:44   throttle all the applications and very [TS]

01:49:46   tightly control power or and you know [TS]

01:49:48   obviously it would make a big difference [TS]

01:49:49   in things like the Apple watch where [TS]

01:49:52   like the application paradigms and the [TS]

01:49:54   display uses could be so much better if [TS]

01:49:56   we didn't have to worry so much about [TS]

01:49:58   power constantly so that that's kind of [TS]

01:50:00   like the boring answers like yeah make [TS]

01:50:01   all of our tech gadgets have way better [TS]

01:50:03   batteries that would be nice but we [TS]

01:50:06   still have a great tech industry and and [TS]

01:50:09   these gadgets are still awesome and [TS]

01:50:11   amazingly capable even with what we [TS]

01:50:12   already have so I think it might be more [TS]

01:50:14   interesting to look at like where are [TS]

01:50:16   areas in which batteries and better [TS]

01:50:20   technology just is not good enough to [TS]

01:50:21   even make big shifts possible yet or [TS]

01:50:24   ever [TS]

01:50:25   so obviously thing you can look at [TS]

01:50:27   transportation in other ways and you can [TS]

01:50:28   say like obviously like airplanes [TS]

01:50:30   currently can't be electrically powered [TS]

01:50:32   because like the power and weight ratio [TS]

01:50:34   is just way off like they don't say that [TS]

01:50:37   there are plenty of electric powered [TS]

01:50:38   airplanes you mean airliners right yeah [TS]

01:50:39   big airplanes yeah you know like they're [TS]

01:50:42   like there's large parts of [TS]

01:50:43   transportation that that like battery [TS]

01:50:45   technology batteries you're just too [TS]

01:50:47   heavy or too big or don't have the don't [TS]

01:50:50   have the capacity or charge too slowly [TS]

01:50:53   one area that's recently getting a [TS]

01:50:55   little bit of traction and the electric [TS]

01:50:57   vehicle news is trucks long-haul trucks [TS]

01:51:01   like you know big semis and stuff lots [TS]

01:51:03   of energy is spent on trucking and if [TS]

01:51:05   you can Electrify trucks the way that [TS]

01:51:08   cars are be able to be electrified that [TS]

01:51:10   could have pretty substantial savings [TS]

01:51:12   and to you know both people who truck [TS]

01:51:15   and also like the environment around [TS]

01:51:17   all these things like that could be a [TS]

01:51:18   pretty significant fuel reduction and [TS]

01:51:21   trucks have have an issue where you know [TS]

01:51:24   you need a lot of power to move a big [TS]

01:51:26   semi-truck with a big trailer and [TS]

01:51:27   everything it's just a big load and [TS]

01:51:29   they're not particularly aerodynamic so [TS]

01:51:32   you need a lot of power and also [TS]

01:51:34   truckers can't afford to sit around for [TS]

01:51:37   like two hours while things recharge [TS]

01:51:38   every hundred miles like that like they [TS]

01:51:41   that's not feasible for that business [TS]

01:51:43   it's like you for four trucks to be [TS]

01:51:45   electrified you need significant [TS]

01:51:48   improvements for that to really be a [TS]

01:51:49   thing that could take off so like I [TS]

01:51:52   would lean more towards areas like that [TS]

01:51:54   really things that like you basically [TS]

01:51:56   just can't do efficiently with batteries [TS]

01:51:58   as we know them today just because like [TS]

01:52:00   the the ratios and the economics and [TS]

01:52:04   whatever else are just completely [TS]

01:52:05   infeasible as we know them today that [TS]

01:52:08   that would be my answer is like find [TS]

01:52:10   things that we just can't really do [TS]

01:52:13   electrically today in a reasonable way [TS]

01:52:15   make those more practical or more [TS]

01:52:17   feasible so obviously things like trucks [TS]

01:52:20   I would say probably like container [TS]

01:52:23   ships like you know big ships in in the [TS]

01:52:25   ocean a similar problem airliner is like [TS]

01:52:27   other parts of Transportation that it [TS]

01:52:31   would be nice to eliminate their [TS]

01:52:32   emissions and/or reduce their emissions [TS]

01:52:34   at least and we just can't do that yet [TS]

01:52:37   don't forget clothing going in the other [TS]

01:52:39   direction your battery breakthrough [TS]

01:52:41   could be you know amazing fast charging [TS]

01:52:43   tiny lightweight inexpensive waterproof [TS]

01:52:46   batteries that you can weave into [TS]

01:52:47   clothing so that you can stream Spotify [TS]

01:52:50   from your shorts because your shorts [TS]

01:52:51   know how to streams qualified that's the [TS]

01:52:55   other direction of like there's so many [TS]

01:52:56   places where you can't use electric [TS]

01:52:59   power at all because batteries are too [TS]

01:53:00   big and bulky and every too much of a [TS]

01:53:02   hassle but if batteries were the size of [TS]

01:53:04   grains of sand and enough energy to [TS]

01:53:06   stream Spotify all day it would be an [TS]

01:53:08   every piece of clothing you own if they [TS]

01:53:09   were also cheap to manufacture right do [TS]

01:53:11   what I want my shorts to be playing [TS]

01:53:13   music I'm not entirely sure it's a place [TS]

01:53:16   it into your ears but it's the thing [TS]

01:53:17   that receives the radio signals and [TS]

01:53:19   sends it through bluetooth version eight [TS]

01:53:20   bazillion up interior and your magic air [TS]

01:53:23   pods [TS]

01:53:23   whatever they could use bone conduction [TS]

01:53:25   technology and send it through my sit [TS]

01:53:27   bones [TS]

01:53:29   you get your head up your ass killing [TS]

01:53:32   music I just I feel like there's some [TS]

01:53:37   humanitarian angle here that we're not [TS]

01:53:39   considering you know like providing [TS]

01:53:40   power to communities that simply don't [TS]

01:53:43   have any like it's not even an option or [TS]

01:53:45   or it's unaffordable or whatever the [TS]

01:53:46   case that's like storage or solar energy [TS]

01:53:49   that's you know better that just battery [TS]

01:53:51   breakthrough but just like the energy [TS]

01:53:52   problem like if you want world peace if [TS]

01:53:53   you could solve the energy problem and [TS]

01:53:55   there was like free energy for everybody [TS]

01:53:56   that would solve a lot of problems [TS]

01:53:58   really quickly because energy is [TS]

01:54:00   convertible as you may know into many [TS]

01:54:02   other goods and services right and it's [TS]

01:54:04   all like if you can solve that problem [TS]

01:54:07   like it doesn't take like you know you [TS]

01:54:11   know the sort of sci-fi utopia is like [TS]

01:54:12   if you had unlimited free energy for [TS]

01:54:14   everybody no needs to work anymore like [TS]

01:54:17   you just need to have the sort of base [TS]

01:54:18   level technology to convert that energy [TS]

01:54:20   into food and shelter and other types of [TS]

01:54:23   things like it's a you know but we're [TS]

01:54:25   you know that's thermodynamics has [TS]

01:54:27   something to say about the whole free [TS]

01:54:28   energy thing but we could you know [TS]

01:54:30   deplete the the earth Firefly style and [TS]

01:54:33   live all the high on the hog for a while [TS]

01:54:35   until the machines take over and enslave [TS]

01:54:37   us all well that's a positive outlook [TS]

01:54:40   John but marker will be dead so he [TS]

01:54:42   doesn't care [TS]