The Accidental Tech Podcast

243: Knew About the Dollar Signs


00:00:00   did you try that translation menu bar [TS]

00:00:02   thing by the way that I pasted no [TS]

00:00:03   because I guess you have to don't get [TS]

00:00:05   the like kill system UI server to make [TS]

00:00:06   it take effect something like that yeah [TS]

00:00:08   please don't do that while podcasting [TS]

00:00:10   all of the years I've come to the [TS]

00:00:13   conclusion and I think I first heard [TS]

00:00:15   this from Dan Benjamin and I think Tim [TS]

00:00:17   for me he was right about this that it [TS]

00:00:20   is it is a happier experience for you [TS]

00:00:22   whoever you is if you customized or if [TS]

00:00:26   you insist on as few customizations to [TS]

00:00:28   vanilla mac OS or iOS as possible [TS]

00:00:31   obviously every one of us myself [TS]

00:00:32   included has plenty of customizations [TS]

00:00:35   that that that you consider critical to [TS]

00:00:38   me on a new installation of Mac OS and [TS]

00:00:40   and same with iOS but I try to choose [TS]

00:00:44   wisely and I try to choose things that [TS]

00:00:48   usually just amount to installing like [TS]

00:00:51   an app or something like that and this [TS]

00:00:53   is no I mean it's a defaults right like [TS]

00:00:55   I understand what it is it's not hard to [TS]

00:00:57   do it's something I am perfectly capable [TS]

00:00:59   of doing but the fact that I didn't even [TS]

00:01:01   notice that the darn menu bar was [TS]

00:01:02   translucent until you said something [TS]

00:01:04   means you know what it's probably just [TS]

00:01:06   not worth it to worry about it and I'm [TS]

00:01:09   okay with that I disagree with that [TS]

00:01:10   philosophy I understand it like maybe if [TS]

00:01:12   you're Hotelling in a world where you [TS]

00:01:13   you have to use other people's generic [TS]

00:01:15   computers all the time that you don't [TS]

00:01:16   want to customize but I'm I'm in the [TS]

00:01:19   opposite camp I'm not gonna live with [TS]

00:01:20   some minor annoyance for years and years [TS]

00:01:22   just because it's like oh if I happen to [TS]

00:01:23   find myself a stranger's computer that's [TS]

00:01:25   the default setup I'll be able to do it [TS]

00:01:26   if I get a new computer I'll just be [TS]

00:01:28   able to use that that's not true B's [TS]

00:01:29   migration system has been great for so [TS]

00:01:31   many years some people always asked me [TS]

00:01:32   do you do a clean install or do you [TS]

00:01:34   upgrade install I upgrade install I've [TS]

00:01:36   been upgrading installed for ever and [TS]

00:01:38   apples upgrading stalls have [TS]

00:01:40   historically both on classic Mac OS and [TS]

00:01:42   on OS 10 and Mac OS or the hell it's [TS]

00:01:44   called now have been really good about [TS]

00:01:47   keeping all your crappy yes that's why I [TS]

00:01:49   have like a resource fork based [TS]

00:01:51   preference file sitting in my library [TS]

00:01:53   folder on my Mac but it just keeps your [TS]

00:01:55   settings like that's why you know if I [TS]

00:01:57   ever do set up a new Mac I'm faced with [TS]

00:01:59   like how did I set this up because it's [TS]

00:02:02   a setting that I changed I ran a default [TS]

00:02:03   write command like in Panther right and [TS]

00:02:07   it's it's still carrying over right [TS]

00:02:09   because the plist file is there it's [TS]

00:02:11   just that's what I want it like it's [TS]

00:02:13   such a you get such bang for your buck [TS]

00:02:15   out of it if you just keep doing upgrade [TS]

00:02:17   installs because it'll just carry [TS]

00:02:18   everything over and it's perfectly fine [TS]

00:02:20   it's not like Windows you have to wipe [TS]

00:02:21   out your computer don't be afraid of the [TS]

00:02:24   upgrade install embrace it and there are [TS]

00:02:26   lots of cool products out there cool to [TS]

00:02:28   varying degrees that will it will script [TS]

00:02:31   your like so you got a new Mac this [TS]

00:02:34   thing will apply all your settings but I [TS]

00:02:36   felt like all of them I've looked into a [TS]

00:02:38   lot of them some of them are based on [TS]

00:02:39   puppet which is a little bit scary buff [TS]

00:02:40   it's a little bit wonky but Google uses [TS]

00:02:43   one based on puppet I think but there's [TS]

00:02:44   all sorts of solutions like that even [TS]

00:02:45   just some people have a giant like shell [TS]

00:02:47   script that they run that does a bunch [TS]

00:02:48   of things but you don't need any of that [TS]

00:02:50   if you just do upgrade installs so don't [TS]

00:02:53   be afraid to customize your computer it [TS]

00:02:55   is a good idea to keep a text file [TS]

00:02:57   around to just remind you what the [TS]

00:02:58   customizations are which is what I did [TS]

00:02:59   when I got my new Mac at work because I [TS]

00:03:01   wasn't upgrade installing from anything [TS]

00:03:02   right but for your home computers you [TS]

00:03:04   don't have that problem you can use [TS]

00:03:06   migration assistant connected with [TS]

00:03:07   Ethernet Wi-Fi firewire I recommend [TS]

00:03:10   using the fastest connection possible to [TS]

00:03:12   bring all your crap over from your old [TS]

00:03:14   computer to your new one yeah I kind of [TS]

00:03:16   use both extremes on I hardly ever [TS]

00:03:19   upgrade my desktop like both hardware [TS]

00:03:21   and software wise and when I do update [TS]

00:03:26   to the newest OS on my desktop or get a [TS]

00:03:28   new desktop I always do upgrade installs [TS]

00:03:30   or migrations it's fine [TS]

00:03:32   however on my laptops which I'm buying [TS]

00:03:34   at increasing frequencies I almost [TS]

00:03:38   always do clean installs because it's [TS]

00:03:40   like my secondary system usually I am [TS]

00:03:43   less careful with what I install on it [TS]

00:03:45   like why like when I installed that [TS]

00:03:47   collection of trucks I am usually more [TS]

00:03:51   willing to experiment on it so for [TS]

00:03:53   instance right now my laptop has high [TS]

00:03:54   sierra on it my desktop is not so my [TS]

00:03:57   laptop I'm always doing clean installs [TS]

00:03:59   my laptops I guess I should say and my [TS]

00:04:03   desktop I always upgrade I've been [TS]

00:04:06   carrying over the same installation my [TS]

00:04:07   desktop for a long time now I think in [TS]

00:04:09   my entire time using Mac's since 2004 I [TS]

00:04:14   think I've done to clean installs on my [TS]

00:04:19   desktop or maybe one it's it's a small [TS]

00:04:21   number and everything else was he just [TS]

00:04:25   upgrades and [TS]

00:04:26   and totally fine you know like John I [TS]

00:04:28   probably have a lot of clutter I thought [TS]

00:04:30   I could get rid of but it's also just [TS]

00:04:32   you know I have so many things set up [TS]

00:04:34   just the way I like them and so many [TS]

00:04:35   little details here and there and I can [TS]

00:04:37   tell because when I go use a cleanly [TS]

00:04:38   installed laptop that I have purchased [TS]

00:04:40   you know for this quarter I can always [TS]

00:04:43   tell like oh wow this thing doesn't work [TS]

00:04:44   right or this is kind of not quite there [TS]

00:04:46   oh I wish I had this thing here that I [TS]

00:04:48   have my desktop set up so there are [TS]

00:04:50   benefits of both but certainly like you [TS]

00:04:53   know the old if you're like me and you [TS]

00:04:56   came from the windows world where like [TS]

00:04:58   it was basically a horrible idea to ever [TS]

00:05:01   upgrade like you should in the windows [TS]

00:05:03   world when I was in it you should only [TS]

00:05:05   ever have done clean installs and even [TS]

00:05:08   and even when you weren't changing [TS]

00:05:09   Windows versions you should probably do [TS]

00:05:12   a clean install of your OS like every [TS]

00:05:13   six months which I did and because we [TS]

00:05:17   hose is so bad at least it was I don't [TS]

00:05:18   know I don't know if this one is any [TS]

00:05:20   better I haven't honestly many windows [TS]

00:05:22   user and literally you know 10 12 years [TS]

00:05:25   now at least so it might be better now [TS]

00:05:28   although one thing Windows doesn't do [TS]

00:05:30   very well is change so let's see I'm [TS]

00:05:34   sure in the feedback with that but well [TS]

00:05:37   yeah so I've seen both and I would say [TS]

00:05:39   on a Mac you don't need to do clean [TS]

00:05:40   installs for the most part almost any [TS]

00:05:42   time ever I only do my laptops more as a [TS]

00:05:46   curiosity and you know cleanliness thing [TS]

00:05:49   and experimentation [TS]

00:05:50   you guys should run LS minus TL tilde [TS]

00:05:54   slash library slash preferences just [TS]

00:05:59   find the oldest item in like your [TS]

00:06:01   library Preferences folder I was giving [TS]

00:06:03   you a way to do it 2011 for me what was [TS]

00:06:06   your last item jay-z today so the last [TS]

00:06:11   item must December 31st 1969 January 18 [TS]

00:06:15   of 2016 which is when I got the computer [TS]

00:06:17   so I yeah that matches my recollection [TS]

00:06:21   which is that this was a cleaner and [TS]

00:06:23   what it Marco what is your last item [TS]

00:06:26   that what it actually is it one [TS]

00:06:27   preference it's a whole bunch of lock [TS]

00:06:29   files peelers lock files oh great yeah [TS]

00:06:32   those are great [TS]

00:06:33   when left over from programs that [TS]

00:06:35   crashed while they were in the middle of [TS]

00:06:36   locking something and nothing ever [TS]

00:06:38   cleaned up the black files yeah and I [TS]

00:06:39   just you know it's all like you know the [TS]

00:06:40   calms that Apple and bezel surfaces app [TS]

00:06:42   store address book stuff like that yeah [TS]

00:06:44   so I must have done a good job cleaning [TS]

00:06:46   out the resource-based ones of a bb-8 [TS]

00:06:47   probably still has ones but I moved a [TS]

00:06:49   lot of uveitis stuff to Dropbox so it's [TS]

00:06:50   synced between machines that's another [TS]

00:06:51   preference hack by the way if program [TS]

00:06:54   supported you can similar things into [TS]

00:06:55   Dropbox and then your preferences will [TS]

00:06:57   be the same everywhere you install [TS]

00:06:58   Dropbox but anyway my bottom item is [TS]

00:07:00   from 2003 Adobe registration database [TS]

00:07:03   I've also got an air folder an Aladdin [TS]

00:07:06   folder and comm dot and Burgess w dot [TS]

00:07:08   even over that P list lots of good stuff [TS]

00:07:11   there 2003 and I think I must have gone [TS]

00:07:14   through and cleaned out a bunch of stuff [TS]

00:07:15   before this so that's that's how the [TS]

00:07:18   very least that's how long I've been [TS]

00:07:19   doing upgrade installs that have carried [TS]

00:07:20   over to this exact computer in the early [TS]

00:07:22   days of Mac OS 10 things were a little [TS]

00:07:25   sketchier so I probably lost a bunch of [TS]

00:07:26   my folders at various points 2004-2005 [TS]

00:07:30   if I screw up 2006 every year is [TS]

00:07:32   represented does never go away so we [TS]

00:07:37   should start with follow up and we have [TS]

00:07:39   some follow up with regard to the Google [TS]

00:07:40   pixel and we had a handful people write [TS]

00:07:43   in various degrees of anger mostly just [TS]

00:07:46   emails about how we how we didn't really [TS]

00:07:50   give Google enough credit and this [TS]

00:07:51   happens every time we talk about Google [TS]

00:07:53   and I think some of it is justified like [TS]

00:07:54   I said I mean it's not unreasonable for [TS]

00:07:56   someone to say hey you know we don't [TS]

00:07:58   know Google in and out like we at least [TS]

00:08:00   think we know Apple but uh one of the [TS]

00:08:03   things that we had said and I think it [TS]

00:08:05   was me especially the head said was that [TS]

00:08:06   I thought it was kind of bogus that my [TS]

00:08:09   buddy at work could pre-order his or [TS]

00:08:11   maybe just straight-up order his Google [TS]

00:08:14   pixel to excel maybe whatever it was [TS]

00:08:18   without he ordered ordered it yeah [TS]

00:08:20   exactly which by the way whatever joke [TS]

00:08:23   he made to what was it you said pixel to [TS]

00:08:25   ten or something like 10 L yeah that [TS]

00:08:27   joke was much better than I gave you [TS]

00:08:28   credit for because it flew right over my [TS]

00:08:30   head when it happens right so I'd like [TS]

00:08:32   to publicly acknowledge that I missed it [TS]

00:08:33   on the last episode anyway I was [TS]

00:08:36   lamenting that it's it's it's a bummer [TS]

00:08:39   that I have to wake up 3:00 in the [TS]

00:08:40   morning to give Apple a whole shitload [TS]

00:08:42   of my money which of course I don't have [TS]

00:08:43   to do but that's what I need to do if I [TS]

00:08:45   want to get it in a timely fashion [TS]

00:08:46   because I'm [TS]

00:08:47   and entitled materialistic American so [TS]

00:08:50   huns Hauer [TS]

00:08:52   I hope I pronounced that right I asked [TS]

00:08:53   for help I hope I got that right wrote [TS]

00:08:55   in to say you know Apple watches the [TS]

00:08:57   iPhone 8 in more than 25 countries and [TS]

00:09:00   will add dozens more this year the old [TS]

00:09:02   pixel the original pixel so a year ago [TS]

00:09:05   pixel is still only available in six [TS]

00:09:08   countries which I thought was a really [TS]

00:09:10   interesting point so here it is I'm [TS]

00:09:11   beatin up on Apple for not really doing [TS]

00:09:14   the pre-order the way I wanted it at the [TS]

00:09:15   time I wanted it but you know this is a [TS]

00:09:19   really good point that Apple is shipping [TS]

00:09:20   to way more places and presumably [TS]

00:09:23   shipping far more phones then Google is [TS]

00:09:25   and that that comes with it some penalty [TS]

00:09:27   if for lack of a better word and that [TS]

00:09:29   it's just harder to do yeah and I mean [TS]

00:09:31   that also even restricts like what kind [TS]

00:09:34   of component choices and manufacturing [TS]

00:09:36   methods that Apple and materials that [TS]

00:09:38   Apple can even use in the iPhone like [TS]

00:09:40   Apple just makes so many more iPhones [TS]

00:09:44   than pretty much anything else in the [TS]

00:09:46   computer and electronic world that it's [TS]

00:09:50   it's hard to even fathom like the the [TS]

00:09:53   realities of how they need to do this [TS]

00:09:55   and the restrictions it puts on them [TS]

00:09:57   like like that remember like there was a [TS]

00:09:59   there was a brief rumor before last [TS]

00:10:02   year's phone that they were going to [TS]

00:10:04   make one out of ceramic and people a few [TS]

00:10:07   people with knowledge of that business [TS]

00:10:09   basically said like there isn't enough [TS]

00:10:12   ceramic making capacity in the world to [TS]

00:10:15   satisfy like like they'd like even if [TS]

00:10:18   they bought like every machine that [TS]

00:10:20   exists to do this in the world it [TS]

00:10:21   wouldn't be enough capacity and and so [TS]

00:10:23   like you know what Apple has to do it at [TS]

00:10:25   their scale is so unlike what most [TS]

00:10:27   companies have to worry about that [TS]

00:10:30   because you know not only do they have [TS]

00:10:31   to make a lot of them but they have to [TS]

00:10:33   make a lot of them quickly and all over [TS]

00:10:35   the world like this is not easy and so [TS]

00:10:39   like it's it's almost impossible to [TS]

00:10:42   compare anything else to what Apple does [TS]

00:10:43   with the iPhone but anyway you know the [TS]

00:10:47   the the feedback we got about about [TS]

00:10:49   mostly my dismissing remarks about the [TS]

00:10:51   Google pixel because my position [TS]

00:10:53   basically was like it's interesting and [TS]

00:10:56   every you know every time a Google phone [TS]

00:10:57   comes out all the reviewers say wow this [TS]

00:11:00   is really great [TS]

00:11:01   and then they just abandon it like two [TS]

00:11:02   weeks later for the next Samsung thing [TS]

00:11:04   or it could they go back to their [TS]

00:11:05   iPhones if they were iPhone people most [TS]

00:11:08   of the feedback we got didn't really [TS]

00:11:10   contradict that it was more like you're [TS]

00:11:13   wrong because I like it and that's fine [TS]

00:11:16   I'm not saying that nobody likes the [TS]

00:11:19   pixel but that it's not a that the [TS]

00:11:22   Google phones are not mass-market [TS]

00:11:24   devices and I and I hope some day they [TS]

00:11:27   will become mass-market devices because [TS]

00:11:29   as I said last episode when Apple has [TS]

00:11:31   really good competition Apple does [TS]

00:11:33   better and even though I don't have any [TS]

00:11:35   interest in switching to Android I want [TS]

00:11:37   there to be amazing Android phones that [TS]

00:11:39   keep pushing Apple to make the phones I [TS]

00:11:41   use better button the Google pixel and [TS]

00:11:44   former Nexus series they just don't sell [TS]

00:11:47   in enough volume to really make Apple [TS]

00:11:50   have to worry about really anything so I [TS]

00:11:53   again I hope that changes over time but [TS]

00:11:55   that is still the reality yeah I would [TS]

00:11:57   agree with that also in the Google camp [TS]

00:12:00   Josh Lampkin writes and he wrote an [TS]

00:12:03   email describing kind of the repair [TS]

00:12:04   process because I think he took issue [TS]

00:12:06   with the fact that one of the things [TS]

00:12:07   that it might have been Marco but one of [TS]

00:12:09   us said it was that hey you know Apple [TS]

00:12:11   has all this retail presence and Google [TS]

00:12:13   doesn't have that and that's an [TS]

00:12:14   advantage for Apple which you know as [TS]

00:12:16   much as we all love mint the time it [TS]

00:12:18   takes to the Genius Bar appointment I [TS]

00:12:19   still stand by what Marco said but Josh [TS]

00:12:22   writes in and said in summary that if he [TS]

00:12:26   needs to get a repair done on his pixel [TS]

00:12:28   phone the repair is an overnighted [TS]

00:12:31   replacement unit with a box for your [TS]

00:12:33   existing phone and it's all done online [TS]

00:12:35   and he said I usually have my [TS]

00:12:37   replacement Android device before my [TS]

00:12:38   usual geek bar appointment would be so [TS]

00:12:41   in other words if he has a problem he I [TS]

00:12:43   guess on the phone if possible and if [TS]

00:12:45   not on the web he goes and reports an [TS]

00:12:47   issue and ends up talking like live [TS]

00:12:48   chatting with a Google representative [TS]

00:12:50   and if they confirm that it's a [TS]

00:12:51   legitimate problem they will overnight [TS]

00:12:54   him a new phones or presumably a [TS]

00:12:56   refurbished phone so it'll be there the [TS]

00:12:57   following day and and he takes that box [TS]

00:13:00   puts his existing phone in it ships it [TS]

00:13:03   back and that's it job done and you know [TS]

00:13:06   what that sounds pretty fricking great [TS]

00:13:08   to me it's not as quick is you know [TS]

00:13:10   going into the Apple store and getting a [TS]

00:13:12   screen replaced in the span of two hours [TS]

00:13:14   but that's pretty good for a company [TS]

00:13:16   that has pretty much zero retail [TS]

00:13:18   presence yeah gotta give him credit that [TS]

00:13:20   is a good setup [TS]

00:13:21   I still think Apple is way ahead of them [TS]

00:13:23   on so many levels by having physical [TS]

00:13:25   stores but that is better than I [TS]

00:13:27   expected legal process to be because in [TS]

00:13:29   in the past not even that distant past [TS]

00:13:32   dealing with them for any kind of [TS]

00:13:35   directly purchased a tronic device was a [TS]

00:13:37   nightmare yeah as when I add that like [TS]

00:13:41   an old man playing World of Warcraft on [TS]

00:13:42   an iMac in a Panera Bread I'm nothing to [TS]

00:13:44   apologize for [TS]

00:13:47   not make this unfounded disparaging [TS]

00:13:50   remarks about Google because the only [TS]

00:13:52   thing that I would have added that [TS]

00:13:53   conversation about Google if I had [TS]

00:13:55   anything to add which I always I didn't [TS]

00:13:56   feel like I did was my impression of the [TS]

00:13:58   Nexus line and this was echoed by a [TS]

00:14:00   couple of people who said feedback was [TS]

00:14:01   like I don't know if Google is not [TS]

00:14:03   trying to make a mass-market phone or [TS]

00:14:05   this is just their excuse but it was [TS]

00:14:07   always like this is what you could do [TS]

00:14:09   with our operating system if you made a [TS]

00:14:11   cool phone now everybody else who uses [TS]

00:14:15   our operating system go make cool phones [TS]

00:14:17   like this it's like it's like the [TS]

00:14:18   exemplars out a whole bunch them that's [TS]

00:14:21   why is only for sale in six countries [TS]

00:14:22   it's just kind of like showing the way [TS]

00:14:24   to other people kinda like reference [TS]

00:14:25   designs from video card makers or [TS]

00:14:27   whatever maybe not quite the same thing [TS]

00:14:28   because they're not just giving that [TS]

00:14:30   design to other people but I don't know [TS]

00:14:31   if that's actually true or if that's [TS]

00:14:32   just something they say when they don't [TS]

00:14:33   sell a lot of them but yeah indeed so I [TS]

00:14:38   feel like I need a moment to get [TS]

00:14:42   something off my chest and that's [TS]

00:14:44   something that something relates to you [TS]

00:14:47   guessed it Cellular Apple watch service [TS]

00:14:49   fees [TS]

00:14:50   oh yes it does we're giving more time to [TS]

00:14:54   this we are giving more time to this you [TS]

00:14:56   know why that they even charge him tax [TS]

00:14:58   and additional fees oh yeah I heard [TS]

00:15:01   about this that's that is the executive [TS]

00:15:04   that is that is the executive summary [TS]

00:15:06   but I have received my first bill since [TS]

00:15:10   I have activated my cellular Apple watch [TS]

00:15:12   my $10 a month service which I knew [TS]

00:15:15   would not be ten but I was hoping [TS]

00:15:17   ignorant Lee and naively so I was hoping [TS]

00:15:21   would be not too much more than ten [TS]

00:15:22   dollars a month would you - if you've [TS]

00:15:24   not already clicked the link in the show [TS]

00:15:25   notes would you like to guess how much [TS]

00:15:27   my $10 a month sir [TS]

00:15:28   this is it like 12 or 13 $17 John did [TS]

00:15:32   you look at the show notes because it [TS]

00:15:34   did not $17.40 so the the monthly plan [TS]

00:15:39   charges is $10 and I will put a link to [TS]

00:15:41   I will put an image in the show in the [TS]

00:15:43   show notes way up is there a convenience [TS]

00:15:44   fee like when you buy tickets online the [TS]

00:15:48   breakdown is very quickly $10 for the [TS]

00:15:50   watch administrative fee 76 cents [TS]

00:15:53   federal Universal Service charge two [TS]

00:15:55   dollars and 42 cents regular Tori cost [TS]

00:15:57   recovery charge one dollar and 25 cents [TS]

00:15:59   and Virginia equipment tax recoupment [TS]

00:16:01   seven cents II don't like photo and then [TS]

00:16:06   not to mention the government taxes and [TS]

00:16:07   fees well I think that is everything I [TS]

00:16:09   think that the federal Universal Service [TS]

00:16:10   charge is that the two dollars and forty [TS]

00:16:12   two what about the different taxes in a [TS]

00:16:13   fee is the 290 VA Virginia Wireless 9 1 [TS]

00:16:16   1 and Wadena communication sales tax oh [TS]

00:16:19   I didn't scroll down my mistake [TS]

00:16:20   I didn't scroll down on my own image my [TS]

00:16:22   mistake yes you're exactly right two [TS]

00:16:24   dollars and ninety cents of which 75 [TS]

00:16:26   cents is Virginia t91 and two dollars [TS]

00:16:28   and 15 cents is Virginia communication [TS]

00:16:30   sales tax my mistake [TS]

00:16:32   yeah so you actually are 1740s Wow there [TS]

00:16:34   you go what kind of tiny size do you [TS]

00:16:37   have your web browser window that you [TS]

00:16:38   had to scroll to see the bottom of this [TS]

00:16:39   image this is the real question as your [TS]

00:16:41   web browser like a tiny slit like the [TS]

00:16:42   window on a no because all right well [TS]

00:16:49   now now we're gonna have to go down this [TS]

00:16:50   a glimpse into Casey's life it all his [TS]

00:16:53   web browser the windows are one inch [TS]

00:16:55   tall I'm sure you want to talk about [TS]

00:16:57   crazy windows setup so as I'm saying [TS]

00:16:59   minor minor proportion like sheets of [TS]

00:17:00   paper because that's the same proportion [TS]

00:17:02   of her web browser window so only when I [TS]

00:17:04   record this show only when I record this [TS]

00:17:07   show so I have four panes on my single [TS]

00:17:12   virtual desktop so I don't really bother [TS]

00:17:14   with my spaces as I usually do when I'm [TS]

00:17:16   typically using the computer in the [TS]

00:17:18   upper left hand corner Skype in the [TS]

00:17:20   upper in the upper right hand corner [TS]

00:17:21   taking up approximately a quarter of the [TS]

00:17:22   screen as my web browser and the bottom [TS]

00:17:24   which by the way is Chrome only because [TS]

00:17:26   I use Google Docs here generally [TS]

00:17:28   speaking I never touch Chrome the bottom [TS]

00:17:30   right hand corner is Visual Studio code [TS]

00:17:32   to work on the show notes and the bottom [TS]

00:17:33   left hand corner is [TS]

00:17:35   colloquy which is how I get on the [TS]

00:17:37   chatroom so it is effectively divided [TS]

00:17:40   into four quarter [TS]

00:17:41   and the in this is on my 5k iMac and so [TS]

00:17:44   this particular window was about a [TS]

00:17:45   quarter of the screen and it was just [TS]

00:17:47   not barely not enough to see that last [TS]

00:17:50   section this is an incredibly [TS]

00:17:52   inefficient use of space you're using [TS]

00:17:54   you're using Windows wrong oh I love [TS]

00:17:56   that call recorder jammed [TS]

00:17:57   yeah that's it's actually kind of [TS]

00:17:59   perfect but no this is an incredibly [TS]

00:18:02   poor use of space like first of all like [TS]

00:18:04   things overlapping when I'm recording [TS]

00:18:06   the sidebar on the Kaku and oh come on [TS]

00:18:09   yeah you don't need to go that big you [TS]

00:18:10   don't need colloquy to be anywhere near [TS]

00:18:12   that big window is as small as I can [TS]

00:18:14   possibly make it I wish I could make it [TS]

00:18:15   smaller but you know Skype being Skype [TS]

00:18:17   it has like nope you could never make it [TS]

00:18:18   a reasonable size the small as it ever [TS]

00:18:20   gets [TS]

00:18:20   yeah and and your your text editor [TS]

00:18:23   window like that's a terrible aspect [TS]

00:18:24   ratio for writing notes like I would [TS]

00:18:26   like the the portrait orientation sheet [TS]

00:18:29   of paper aspect ratio is way better for [TS]

00:18:31   text editors I love all the white spaces [TS]

00:18:34   browser windows are the huge margin is [TS]

00:18:36   left and right but it cuts off another [TS]

00:18:37   thing anyway stop stop tiling your [TS]

00:18:39   windows that's amazing this is only for [TS]

00:18:42   when I record you picture how many how [TS]

00:18:44   many S's do you have in your in your [TS]

00:18:46   menu bar there I'm like alright so you [TS]

00:18:47   got a lot of icons why are the 3 s's 4 4 [TS]

00:18:50   s is one of them is way over on the [TS]

00:18:51   right now it's it's even worse it see [TS]

00:18:55   mr. dollar signs are they I can't you [TS]

00:18:58   really break it in the dough there in [TS]

00:18:59   your menu bar you got three dollar signs [TS]

00:19:01   wait does that does that mean your menu [TS]

00:19:02   bar is expensive like on Yelp no they're [TS]

00:19:08   hiding do you want to know what it is [TS]

00:19:10   what's a little pinwheel next to Dropbox [TS]

00:19:13   hold on one step at a time [TS]

00:19:14   all right the s have Siri enabled at all [TS]

00:19:17   but it's all the way over there are the [TS]

00:19:18   love of God people my menu bar is a [TS]

00:19:29   disaster I'll be the first to admit it I [TS]

00:19:31   will be the first to admit it [TS]

00:19:33   the dollar signs are because I have [TS]

00:19:35   installed the most recent version of as [TS]

00:19:37   I step menus but apparently did never [TS]

00:19:40   entered my registration and so it is [TS]

00:19:43   then said give me money [TS]

00:19:45   apparently how long has that been now I [TS]

00:19:48   don't know for maybe a few days maybe [TS]

00:19:51   all the benefit you're getting from I [TS]

00:19:53   statin menus I need to keep an eye on my [TS]

00:19:55   dollar signs who's saying that oh my god [TS]

00:20:01   who's saying that I'm drawing a blank [TS]

00:20:04   Snoop Dogg gettin juice I don't recall [TS]

00:20:06   you're probably right [TS]

00:20:08   I just put my updated menu bar in the [TS]

00:20:10   robot and I'm sorry live listeners it is [TS]

00:20:12   it I will be the first to tell you it is [TS]

00:20:14   not good it's not good and and it is it [TS]

00:20:17   is just plain not good and I am [TS]

00:20:19   embarrassed by it especially because I'm [TS]

00:20:21   a devout as few things in the menu bars [TS]

00:20:24   I can get a Serio to the menu bar I need [TS]

00:20:26   to do that fuzzy clock come on oh can I [TS]

00:20:32   get Siri out of the menu bar I gotta do [TS]

00:20:33   yes you have a translucent menu bar - no [TS]

00:20:36   I do I do you definitely do [TS]

00:20:39   that's God that cannot that cannot be I [TS]

00:20:41   didn't even know that was still a future [TS]

00:20:42   let's let's play a new game like what [TS]

00:20:44   won't Casey notice about his computer I [TS]

00:20:55   did know I did know about the dollar [TS]

00:20:58   signs is my menu bar I was going through [TS]

00:21:07   I was going through my like a file full [TS]

00:21:09   of like plist hack commands for [TS]

00:21:12   undocumented stuff like turn off window [TS]

00:21:13   animations and I saw the one about the [TS]

00:21:15   translucent menu bar I'm like oh I'm [TS]

00:21:16   glad that feature isn't in my quest [TS]

00:21:17   anymore I wanna say thought it wasn't [TS]

00:21:22   there anymore but apparently it is and [TS]

00:21:23   just like my my pilla setting has been [TS]

00:21:25   surviving multiple OS updates or maybe [TS]

00:21:27   it's a checkbox now I think it says it [TS]

00:21:31   in the display panel well figure I'll [TS]

00:21:33   figure it out I'll do some real-time [TS]

00:21:35   follow up in three hours when I finally [TS]

00:21:37   figure out where the hell it is [TS]

00:21:38   oh wow that's all right so anyway so [TS]

00:21:43   it's the fight suffice it to say never [TS]

00:21:45   ever ever talk about your setup with [TS]

00:21:47   these two numbskulls not smart my word I [TS]

00:21:53   can't find this this is driving me [TS]

00:21:54   bananas where is it you might have to do [TS]

00:21:57   that you might have to do the default [TS]

00:21:58   right whatever [TS]

00:21:59   thing so in summary I pay too much for [TS]

00:22:02   my Apple watch and it makes me sad yeah [TS]

00:22:04   I I agree so I was totally railing [TS]

00:22:07   against you that you know complaining [TS]

00:22:08   about $10 a month to the degree that you [TS]

00:22:10   complained about it was unnecessary [TS]

00:22:13   however it was still like that's I I [TS]

00:22:17   still agree that that is a little more [TS]

00:22:19   than what it should cost I just didn't [TS]

00:22:21   think it was worth complaining as much [TS]

00:22:22   as you did and you know not getting it [TS]

00:22:23   as a result however $17 a month really [TS]

00:22:27   which is what this really is that's a [TS]

00:22:29   different story that's really pushing it [TS]

00:22:32   like it is not worth that for almost [TS]

00:22:34   anybody which is unfortunate but that's [TS]

00:22:37   I don't know like because so it's [TS]

00:22:40   basically being treated as a separate [TS]

00:22:41   line by the by like that the the [TS]

00:22:44   cellular bills you know taxing and [TS]

00:22:46   regulation system and I don't know if [TS]

00:22:49   it's possibly because because you have [TS]

00:22:52   numbersync even though the watch does [TS]

00:22:54   technically have its own number it's the [TS]

00:22:57   same way like my iPad has its own phone [TS]

00:22:59   number assigned to it when I activated [TS]

00:23:00   it with cellular but you can't call it [TS]

00:23:02   you can't do anything with that phone [TS]

00:23:03   number it's just like an implementation [TS]

00:23:05   detail of something having a cellular [TS]

00:23:07   service but it's it shouldn't be treated [TS]

00:23:09   the same way as like a regular phone [TS]

00:23:11   line is and so maybe the watch is being [TS]

00:23:15   misclassified maybe it's temporary [TS]

00:23:18   I don't know but that's messed up like [TS]

00:23:20   to have to for a $10 fee to have another [TS]

00:23:23   seven dollars in taxes and BS on top of [TS]

00:23:26   that that's yes yeah and by the way [TS]

00:23:30   quick not real-time follow-up but quick [TS]

00:23:33   follow-up I found on my AT&T bill that [TS]

00:23:39   there is to your point Marco an actual [TS]

00:23:41   phone number listed there and it [TS]

00:23:44   occurred to me like that I could call [TS]

00:23:46   that number and I feel like I had heard [TS]

00:23:48   on a podcast somewhere maybe it was Mike [TS]

00:23:49   somebody had talked about this and so I [TS]

00:23:51   turned off Bluetooth on my phone and [TS]

00:23:53   then used my cell phone to dial my Apple [TS]

00:23:57   watch and once it you know once I [TS]

00:23:59   realized the phone wasn't there and it [TS]

00:24:01   fell back onto cellular sure enough I [TS]

00:24:03   could dial this unique number that's [TS]

00:24:06   unique to my Apple watch and it rang no [TS]

00:24:09   problem which is exactly what I expected [TS]

00:24:11   but it's kind of funky like it [TS]

00:24:13   makes sense I'm not saying it's right [TS]

00:24:14   bad or wrong or anything but it's got a [TS]

00:24:15   weird and kind of funny that that it [TS]

00:24:17   that it worked that way [TS]

00:24:18   no that is bad and wrong that means it's [TS]

00:24:20   gonna get robo calls Oh interesting it [TS]

00:24:23   very well may yeah yeah now but but but [TS]

00:24:26   on the plus side the only way that would [TS]

00:24:28   happen is if it actually has a cellular [TS]

00:24:30   radio on which only happens when it's [TS]

00:24:32   away from the phone which for me only [TS]

00:24:34   happens once or twice a day if you can [TS]

00:24:37   get robo calls during the time and you [TS]

00:24:39   really want to be like focused on your [TS]

00:24:41   exercise or whatever else or focus on [TS]

00:24:43   your kid in the that's perfect [TS]

00:24:45   it's flawless we are sponsored this week [TS]

00:24:49   by fracture printing your photos [TS]

00:24:52   directly on glass go to fracture me calm [TS]

00:24:55   slash podcast to learn more fracture is [TS]

00:24:58   a photo decor company and they are out [TS]

00:25:00   to rescue your favorite images from the [TS]

00:25:02   digital ether they know that it once you [TS]

00:25:04   post about Instagram or Facebook or [TS]

00:25:06   whatever else the next day it's gone [TS]

00:25:08   you'll never see it again [TS]

00:25:09   get those great photos print it out and [TS]

00:25:11   put them physically somewhere in your [TS]

00:25:13   house or give them as gifts they make [TS]

00:25:15   wonderful gifts and they print your [TS]

00:25:18   photos at fracture directly on two [TS]

00:25:20   sheets of glass they go edge to edge and [TS]

00:25:23   they had a laser-cut rigid backing so [TS]

00:25:25   they're ready to display or hang right [TS]

00:25:27   out of the box they even include the [TS]

00:25:28   wall anchor if you need it just upload a [TS]

00:25:31   digital photo and pick your size it is [TS]

00:25:33   that simple and the fracture printing [TS]

00:25:36   process really makes the color and [TS]

00:25:37   contrast pop and the sleek frameless [TS]

00:25:40   edge to edge design lets your photo [TS]

00:25:43   stand out while still fitting in to any [TS]

00:25:45   decorating style so bring your special [TS]

00:25:47   memories to life give them as wonderful [TS]

00:25:49   gifts or decorate your home with the [TS]

00:25:51   moments that tell your story fractures [TS]

00:25:53   come with a 60 day happiness guarantee [TS]

00:25:55   so you are sure to love your order and [TS]

00:25:57   each fracture is handmade in gainesville [TS]

00:25:59   florida from us source materials in a [TS]

00:26:01   carbon neutral factory for more [TS]

00:26:04   information and ten percent off your [TS]

00:26:05   first order visit fracture me.com slash [TS]

00:26:08   podcast they bless cue which so you came [TS]

00:26:10   from make sure to tell them you came [TS]

00:26:12   from a teepee it helps support the show [TS]

00:26:14   so once again fracture me.com slash [TS]

00:26:16   podcast thank you so much to fracture [TS]

00:26:18   for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:26:22   so hopefully cheer me up one of you and [TS]

00:26:24   tell me about Sonos which I don't care [TS]

00:26:26   about in Google assistant which I also [TS]

00:26:27   don't care about we missed this last [TS]

00:26:29   week when we talked about it oh so Imus [TS]

00:26:31   integrating with Amazon and what was the [TS]

00:26:32   deal with them you're doing the Alexa [TS]

00:26:34   stuff so notice is trying to apparently [TS]

00:26:38   trying to be the hardware platform that [TS]

00:26:42   is host to anybody who has a software [TS]

00:26:45   thing that you can talk to so Google [TS]

00:26:47   assistant there's another software thing [TS]

00:26:48   you can talk to and Sonos is apparently [TS]

00:26:50   integrating with them I'm not quite sure [TS]

00:26:52   how it works you bias honest thing do [TS]

00:26:53   you get to say do you want to talk to [TS]

00:26:55   the Amazon personal assistant Voice [TS]

00:26:59   thingy or do you want to talk to the [TS]

00:27:00   Google one or do you pick when you buy [TS]

00:27:02   it like an old Verizon iPhone versus 18t [TS]

00:27:04   an iPhone thing don't know the details [TS]

00:27:06   but this this kind of changes doesn't [TS]

00:27:09   change but like I'm trying to get some [TS]

00:27:11   new perspective on Sonos and the [TS]

00:27:15   combination of Amazon and who's coming [TS]

00:27:17   out ahead in this deal and what the [TS]

00:27:18   strategies are and there's two parts [TS]

00:27:21   this one is that the some of the people [TS]

00:27:24   with voice assistance certainly Amazon [TS]

00:27:27   but maybe also Google will see seem to [TS]

00:27:30   be initially pursuing the tragedy of we [TS]

00:27:32   want our voice thing everywhere is [TS]

00:27:35   apparently available on an anchor [TS]

00:27:37   product to a and keer the people who [TS]

00:27:39   make like the chargers and stuff and [TS]

00:27:41   various times Amazon has talked about [TS]

00:27:44   spreading their voice thingy everywhere [TS]

00:27:48   if you have a thing that with [TS]

00:27:50   microphones that you can talk to and you [TS]

00:27:52   want to do a business deal with them [TS]

00:27:53   they'll connect it up to Amazon because [TS]

00:27:55   now you can or paper towels through your [TS]

00:27:58   whatever because you talk to it right so [TS]

00:28:00   that's one way you can go it's kind of [TS]

00:28:01   like the the windows everywhere strategy [TS]

00:28:04   of you know we you know just think of [TS]

00:28:08   Amazon for the most part with its where [TS]

00:28:11   can i watch amazon video most [TS]

00:28:12   televisions you buy will have it built [TS]

00:28:14   in just like netflix most boxes you buy [TS]

00:28:18   will have it built in except for apples [TS]

00:28:19   because of a grudge match thing going on [TS]

00:28:21   there and they'll put their voice [TS]

00:28:24   assistant aren't hardware products that [TS]

00:28:26   are not made by them whether it's some [TS]

00:28:27   notes or anchor or probably anybody else [TS]

00:28:29   who will do whatever deal yeah I think [TS]

00:28:32   their ideal future is wherever you are [TS]

00:28:34   the entire [TS]

00:28:35   you can just yell out the name of that [TS]

00:28:36   voice assistant that I'm trying to avoid [TS]

00:28:37   saying and order paper towels and it'll [TS]

00:28:40   you know figure out who you are and [TS]

00:28:41   seventy bees that you know easy ways to [TS]

00:28:43   send Amazon your money it's great right [TS]

00:28:46   and Google assistant being on so knows I [TS]

00:28:48   don't know if Google is spreading its [TS]

00:28:50   assistant far and wide but being on [TS]

00:28:53   summits as well it's only okay well [TS]

00:28:55   we're not going to say if you want to [TS]

00:28:56   talk to the Google assistant you have to [TS]

00:28:58   buy an Android phone or Google home you [TS]

00:29:00   can talk to the Google assistant through [TS]

00:29:02   your summer speaker at the very least [TS]

00:29:03   and possibly other places as well and on [TS]

00:29:07   the other side of that if you're so [TS]

00:29:08   knows their strategy seems to be like we [TS]

00:29:12   make great hardware and we have you know [TS]

00:29:15   the wireless communication stuff and an [TS]

00:29:17   iOS app or whatever to do multi-room [TS]

00:29:19   audio and all the stuff that we do we [TS]

00:29:22   don't do an assistant but we're not [TS]

00:29:23   going to tell you which assistant you [TS]

00:29:25   have to use we're not gonna say we [TS]

00:29:26   believe the one only true assistant is [TS]

00:29:28   the Amazon one and that's it that's like [TS]

00:29:31   if you have an assistant that you want [TS]

00:29:33   to talk you through our speaker let's do [TS]

00:29:34   a deal and I guess they'll let the [TS]

00:29:37   customers decide and when I think of you [TS]

00:29:39   know if if the Amazon strategy is Alexa [TS]

00:29:42   everywhere well I think of the son of [TS]

00:29:44   strategy I feel like are you trying to [TS]

00:29:45   be the hardware makers in the PC age [TS]

00:29:48   where Windows is everywhere and then [TS]

00:29:51   Microsoft doesn't really care who is [TS]

00:29:53   licensing windows for their hardware [TS]

00:29:55   just let the hardware people fight it [TS]

00:29:56   out and then you'll just be marginalized [TS]

00:29:58   and be fighting over a razor certain [TS]

00:29:59   margins against everyone else who makes [TS]

00:30:01   a speaker that has Amazon or Google [TS]

00:30:03   assistant integrated the difference here [TS]

00:30:06   of course is that no voice assistant is [TS]

00:30:09   as dominant as Windows was if that [TS]

00:30:12   changes then yeah the hardware people [TS]

00:30:13   are in a bad position because I feel [TS]

00:30:14   like most of the value isn't the thing [TS]

00:30:16   that you talk to especially if the thing [TS]

00:30:17   that you talk to buys you things from [TS]

00:30:19   like the store one of the people runs [TS]

00:30:21   and then way off to the side less than [TS]

00:30:26   you wouldn't forget is Apple who doesn't [TS]

00:30:29   really have an Amazon video TV app still [TS]

00:30:31   right we're still waiting for that I [TS]

00:30:32   keep yep right so Amazon is kind of [TS]

00:30:36   being mean to them about that because [TS]

00:30:39   they're everywhere else they have a [TS]

00:30:41   speaker thingy but it hasn't even [TS]

00:30:43   shipped yet when it does ship you can be [TS]

00:30:45   sure that it will not support Google [TS]

00:30:47   assistant or am [TS]

00:30:48   you know voice stuff right and so far it [TS]

00:30:53   doesn't seem like a Kapil is all about [TS]

00:30:55   putting Syria everywhere well my next [TS]

00:30:57   television has Siri built-in can i buy [TS]

00:31:00   an anchor puck for $35 at a Siri [TS]

00:31:02   built-in I'm thinking No [TS]

00:31:04   so some very different strategies in the [TS]

00:31:07   early age of cylinders that you talk to [TS]

00:31:09   and to wrap all this up our friend [TS]

00:31:12   Steven Hackett had a nice post about his [TS]

00:31:15   smart speaker conundrum and I think it [TS]

00:31:18   is similar to a lot of tech nerd people [TS]

00:31:20   who may have man manners they may have [TS]

00:31:23   gone in too deep with like too much [TS]

00:31:25   different stuff like well my lightbulbs [TS]

00:31:27   speak this but I like Apple stuff but I [TS]

00:31:30   subscribe to google play music but I [TS]

00:31:32   have you know it gets very confusing [TS]

00:31:34   very fast the short blog post you should [TS]

00:31:36   read it but just to get an idea of the [TS]

00:31:38   choices that you have to make about what [TS]

00:31:41   sort of Internet of Things hardware [TS]

00:31:44   products you buy what software services [TS]

00:31:45   you pay for and can they all talk to [TS]

00:31:47   each other and work together and how you [TS]

00:31:48   figure out how to make your next [TS]

00:31:50   purchase do I continue to go down the [TS]

00:31:53   road that I was going down before with a [TS]

00:31:54   bunch of Amazon things do I ditch [TS]

00:31:56   everything and go to an all Apple world [TS]

00:31:57   but what about the Sonos even Marco [TS]

00:32:00   who's mostly dedicated the a my own [TS]

00:32:01   thing is kind of in that situation [TS]

00:32:03   because you were saying you know do I [TS]

00:32:05   have to buy a Samus thing or maybe if [TS]

00:32:08   the so most will just by existing echo [TS]

00:32:12   products will talk to my existing Sonos [TS]

00:32:14   what do I do or do I switch over to be [TS]

00:32:15   completely someone else and get rid of [TS]

00:32:17   the echos because why do I need them if [TS]

00:32:18   this oness all have smarter of things in [TS]

00:32:20   them but can the Sonos thing talk to my [TS]

00:32:22   light bulbs I don't know I'm kind of [TS]

00:32:25   glad I'm I'm out of this market for the [TS]

00:32:27   most part other than having a cylinder [TS]

00:32:28   that I can talk to but it doesn't things [TS]

00:32:32   don't look smooth over there this is all [TS]

00:32:33   I could say yeah I mean this is and [TS]

00:32:35   first of all some quick follow-up well [TS]

00:32:38   some half follow-up last episode I had I [TS]

00:32:41   had questioned whether it was possible [TS]

00:32:43   to just set up your Amazon echo devices [TS]

00:32:46   to talk to existing Sonos devices [TS]

00:32:48   without having the news owners one the [TS]

00:32:50   answer is yes that I set it up tonight [TS]

00:32:52   however I didn't actually test it out [TS]

00:32:55   because I was too busy playing start to [TS]

00:32:56   valley all night but I will add two you [TS]

00:33:00   know to this discussion that [TS]

00:33:02   for just general like kind of buying [TS]

00:33:04   advice or you know guiding people for [TS]

00:33:07   what to do why all this stuff is getting [TS]

00:33:09   all crazy like this as much as possible [TS]

00:33:12   get things that speak multiple languages [TS]

00:33:15   basically like you know the like the [TS]

00:33:17   Sonos if so knows ends up really pulling [TS]

00:33:21   this off in a big way like if they [TS]

00:33:23   really do have airplay to support which [TS]

00:33:26   is not having Siri built-in but you know [TS]

00:33:27   that's but having airplay to it will [TS]

00:33:29   allow it even better integration with [TS]

00:33:30   the Apple ecosystem so if they pull off [TS]

00:33:33   airplay to which they promise for next [TS]

00:33:35   year if they pull off the Google system [TS]

00:33:37   which they also promise I believe for [TS]

00:33:38   next year or is that immediate do you [TS]

00:33:40   member anyway they put in Google system [TS]

00:33:43   sometime soon and right now there are a [TS]

00:33:45   few weird little asterisks about voice [TS]

00:33:48   control so basically the with so noticed [TS]

00:33:51   you can't access Spotify through voice [TS]

00:33:54   control even though the echo products [TS]

00:33:56   can and and you can't access Apple music [TS]

00:34:00   through voice control even though the [TS]

00:34:02   Sonos products can so there's all these [TS]

00:34:05   little weird exceptions to like well it [TS]

00:34:07   can do mostly everything except it can't [TS]

00:34:09   do this little exception I came for this [TS]

00:34:11   low exception kind of like USB see there [TS]

00:34:13   anyways all these little exceptions so [TS]

00:34:16   it's hard to say for sure like you know [TS]

00:34:19   this device or this device can do [TS]

00:34:20   everything but it sure does look like [TS]

00:34:23   you know Google is never going to [TS]

00:34:24   integrate anything like their goals [TS]

00:34:26   never gonna have Siri or airplay to from [TS]

00:34:29   Apple they're never going to have [TS]

00:34:30   probably the Amazon assistant or the [TS]

00:34:33   kind of integrations amazon has amazon's [TS]

00:34:36   also never never going to have the stuff [TS]

00:34:37   from Apple but will also never do the [TS]

00:34:39   Google assistant Sano's is probably set [TS]

00:34:43   up so far with the things we know to [TS]

00:34:45   have the most support from the most [TS]

00:34:47   places which is why it's interesting [TS]

00:34:49   even though it has those weird little [TS]

00:34:50   exceptions to things and when you're [TS]

00:34:53   buying products like smart home stuff [TS]

00:34:55   these days it's not that hard to find [TS]

00:34:58   stuff that supports both home kit and [TS]

00:35:00   the the Amazon devices so you might as [TS]

00:35:04   well do that when you can but all this [TS]

00:35:07   stuff is so so early that it's still [TS]

00:35:11   advisable to just wait on a host of [TS]

00:35:14   the stuff even though it's fun like if [TS]

00:35:16   if you are averse to having to replace [TS]

00:35:19   some of the gear you buy now in a year [TS]

00:35:23   or two when standards change or when you [TS]

00:35:25   want to change eco systems or when some [TS]

00:35:27   ego system cuts off some other your [TS]

00:35:28   system that used to be integrated if [TS]

00:35:30   you're averse to that just don't buy [TS]

00:35:31   anything yet if you do jump in now be [TS]

00:35:34   prepared for that possibility in some [TS]

00:35:37   respects are saying like apples is off [TS]

00:35:39   there in the corner like with its [TS]

00:35:40   proprietary stuff that it's never gonna [TS]

00:35:42   mix with anybody else and that it hasn't [TS]

00:35:44   even shipped it's it's very first [TS]

00:35:45   cylinder and who knows how good it will [TS]

00:35:47   even be and meanwhile everyone else on [TS]

00:35:48   their second or third iteration and has [TS]

00:35:50   this big ecosystem and lots of users and [TS]

00:35:52   stuff but on the other hand the [TS]

00:35:53   advantage of the Apple still has because [TS]

00:35:55   there is still no dominant real really [TS]

00:35:57   dominant player in this market on the [TS]

00:35:59   hardware or software side at this point [TS]

00:36:00   except for I guess maybe Amazon but I [TS]

00:36:02   don't think they ever tell us what they [TS]

00:36:03   sell is that if you do go all Apple you [TS]

00:36:06   subscribe to Apple music you buy Apple [TS]

00:36:08   stuff you buy the Apple home pod you [TS]

00:36:10   have you know airplay support and all [TS]

00:36:12   your thing is you have Apple TV's [TS]

00:36:13   everywhere at least you can be sure all [TS]

00:36:15   that stuff works together whereas I mean [TS]

00:36:18   I guess Google if you have an Android [TS]

00:36:19   phone and a home thing you're kind of in [TS]

00:36:22   the same situation but Amazon doesn't [TS]

00:36:25   have you know a desktop laptop operating [TS]

00:36:28   system they have a tablet OS but I don't [TS]

00:36:31   know if you're really gonna buy that [TS]

00:36:32   tablet they don't have a phone anymore [TS]

00:36:34   right they don't sell the fire felt like [TS]

00:36:35   that no one has as complete an ecosystem [TS]

00:36:38   as Apple and so no one can offer the [TS]

00:36:42   type of just buy everything from us and [TS]

00:36:44   your whole life from your computer to [TS]

00:36:46   your phone to your television to your [TS]

00:36:47   tear we're cylinder speaker that you [TS]

00:36:49   talk to [TS]

00:36:49   well I'm subscribed to our music service [TS]

00:36:51   we'll all work together they've got the [TS]

00:36:53   biggest picture I supposed to Google [TS]

00:36:54   does two if you count like the Google [TS]

00:36:56   those weird Google laptops and the [TS]

00:36:58   Chromebooks and stuff as well although I [TS]

00:37:00   tend not to count those so if you had [TS]

00:37:03   money to burn and you wanted to make [TS]

00:37:05   sure you had a system that all work [TS]

00:37:06   together that would be one way to go [TS]

00:37:08   swimming out boy if you ship that stuff [TS]

00:37:09   and it was any good but I don't see how [TS]

00:37:12   that can hold long-term I you know and [TS]

00:37:17   if Apple just wants the high-end and if [TS]

00:37:19   some of us isn't successful then maybe [TS]

00:37:20   they can get that but I hope eventually [TS]

00:37:23   standards start to emerge and coalesce [TS]

00:37:25   and it's it becomes more clear [TS]

00:37:28   what the safe approaches when you buy [TS]

00:37:30   and have some reasonable chance that it [TS]

00:37:32   will be useful for a long time but like [TS]

00:37:33   Margot said right now there is nothing [TS]

00:37:34   that's the case for you want to buy and [TS]

00:37:36   play with it's cool and it's fun fine [TS]

00:37:37   but don't buy it and then two years be [TS]

00:37:40   all annoyed because you have to replace [TS]

00:37:41   half of it or you know it becomes [TS]

00:37:43   obsolete or doesn't work with your new [TS]

00:37:44   new light bulbs or whatever [TS]

00:37:46   I am also I'm increasingly concerned [TS]

00:37:49   about apples chances to really make a [TS]

00:37:52   dent in this market because at you know [TS]

00:37:54   as everyone else progresses and advances [TS]

00:37:56   so quickly the the possible advantages [TS]

00:38:01   Apple has keep getting I think that list [TS]

00:38:05   keeps getting shorter and that on the [TS]

00:38:07   main factors of the reasons why people [TS]

00:38:09   buy and use these things I am [TS]

00:38:11   increasingly concerned about apples [TS]

00:38:13   competitiveness so for instance you know [TS]

00:38:15   not only my previous concerns about [TS]

00:38:17   things like price connectivity and the [TS]

00:38:21   quality of Siri and and the consistency [TS]

00:38:24   of Syria to react quickly and correctly [TS]

00:38:26   to as many queries as possible I'm [TS]

00:38:29   increasingly concerned that if having a [TS]

00:38:32   large ecosystem of compatible [TS]

00:38:35   you know Internet of Things things and [TS]

00:38:38   you know if that's important or if [TS]

00:38:40   interoperability with anything else with [TS]

00:38:42   any of these other systems are important [TS]

00:38:43   or if third-party apps support is [TS]

00:38:45   important apples are gonna really fall [TS]

00:38:48   down hard in those areas probably for a [TS]

00:38:50   very long time if not forever [TS]

00:38:52   and so I really I really have concerns [TS]

00:38:56   like not that they'll sell none of these [TS]

00:38:59   things they'll sell some but are we [TS]

00:39:02   looking at the next Amazon echo or we're [TS]

00:39:04   looking to the next iPod hi-fi took a [TS]

00:39:07   while they are going to and they have [TS]

00:39:08   loosened up the homekit stuff in various [TS]

00:39:11   ways which shows I think they know that [TS]

00:39:12   they need to do something but my biggest [TS]

00:39:14   concern with Apple is everyone else is [TS]

00:39:16   shipping and shipping again and multiple [TS]

00:39:18   generations like it was hoist this up [TS]

00:39:20   from it was down in the topic section I [TS]

00:39:22   didn't talk about speak about the Google [TS]

00:39:23   home max and minnie which is the whole [TS]

00:39:26   mini is a tiny little puck thing kind of [TS]

00:39:28   like the look yeah kodanda yeah and then [TS]

00:39:31   the max is a big you know so no size [TS]

00:39:33   multi-speaker thing it's got two big [TS]

00:39:35   woofers and two big tweeters you know [TS]

00:39:37   for better sound this is Google's annex [TS]

00:39:39   second or maybe third iteration of their [TS]

00:39:42   they're home products and they already [TS]

00:39:43   have multiple form factors in three [TS]

00:39:45   different sizes Apple still has not [TS]

00:39:47   shipped it's one single form factor very [TS]

00:39:49   first cylinder they're so far behind you [TS]

00:39:52   can't be in this game if you haven't [TS]

00:39:54   even shipped your thing yet where is the [TS]

00:39:55   you know the three different sizes of [TS]

00:39:58   Apple stuff you know the second or third [TS]

00:40:00   revision of the hardware and software [TS]

00:40:02   and you know the ecosystem that's built [TS]

00:40:04   up around it that's you have to ship you [TS]

00:40:06   have to be you have to start make your [TS]

00:40:08   first one that doesn't seem like you can [TS]

00:40:10   do much and people aren't that [TS]

00:40:11   interested in then make your second one [TS]

00:40:12   then make your line of three new ones [TS]

00:40:14   and just they they have a lot of [TS]

00:40:17   catching up to do if they if they want [TS]

00:40:18   to do something here and they're just [TS]

00:40:19   lucky essentially that no one standard [TS]

00:40:23   or thing has to really completely run [TS]

00:40:25   away with it and again maybe maybe [TS]

00:40:26   that's not true maybe Amazon has run [TS]

00:40:28   away with it and we just don't know [TS]

00:40:29   because people are shy about their sales [TS]

00:40:31   numbers but and you know Google is an [TS]

00:40:34   also-ran that very few people get but I [TS]

00:40:36   don't know and I get more apples [TS]

00:40:39   marketing and brand recognition is [TS]

00:40:40   something that could save it if they're [TS]

00:40:41   a practice actually good but we'll see [TS]

00:40:44   do you think it's still gonna ship this [TS]

00:40:47   year did they say was supposed to I kept [TS]

00:40:50   thinking I was gonna ship next year no [TS]

00:40:52   they they said home pop was I believe [TS]

00:40:54   they said either later this year or [TS]

00:40:55   December I forget which is counted as [TS]

00:40:58   because they said such a late ship data [TS]

00:41:00   it's like well you're not making the [TS]

00:41:01   holiday so who the hell cares [TS]

00:41:02   just pretend it's next year yeah it [TS]

00:41:04   sounded kind of like they were gonna [TS]

00:41:05   like pretty much miss the holidays but [TS]

00:41:07   maybe you can place an order on December [TS]

00:41:09   15th even though you probably won't [TS]

00:41:11   probably won't get it by the holidays [TS]

00:41:12   like I that's kind of odd but like [TS]

00:41:15   they're not going to launch this thing [TS]

00:41:17   without having another event right like [TS]

00:41:19   because right now we know nothing about [TS]

00:41:22   its capabilities all we know is that [TS]

00:41:24   it's sound plays music that's always but [TS]

00:41:26   we don't know how it plays music [TS]

00:41:28   we don't know like you don't know [TS]

00:41:29   anything about Siri on it we don't know [TS]

00:41:31   anything about any other kind of smart [TS]

00:41:32   anything about it like we we they were [TS]

00:41:35   able to show nothing basically [TS]

00:41:37   so they probably wouldn't launch it [TS]

00:41:40   without some kind of small event or at [TS]

00:41:43   least private demo [TS]

00:41:45   I don't like but time is running out in [TS]

00:41:48   the year for when they might do that [TS]

00:41:49   yeah like I don't like I'm I would bet [TS]

00:41:53   especially as we've heard [TS]

00:41:56   nothing about it since then I bet it I [TS]

00:41:58   bet mrs. this year [TS]

00:41:59   I bet it's delayed which is even more [TS]

00:42:01   concerning if it's true don't become [TS]

00:42:03   with an Apple TV remote that you hold [TS]

00:42:04   down the speaker button and talk and do [TS]

00:42:05   when you wanted to play something on [TS]

00:42:07   your neck on a lanyard we are sponsored [TS]

00:42:11   this week by Squarespace start building [TS]

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00:42:52   as you want you can go from you know the [TS]

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00:42:56   everything all the way down to the nitty [TS]

00:42:58   gritty if you want to you can even [TS]

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00:43:00   you know what you're doing it's really [TS]

00:43:02   easy to do you have so much power so [TS]

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00:43:34   right any other follow-up oh yes there [TS]

00:43:37   is one more which I am deeply afraid to [TS]

00:43:39   bring up somebody has written hi Sierra [TS]

00:43:41   update and then some but it was this me [TS]

00:43:43   did I write this maybe I wrote this god [TS]

00:43:45   I need a drink [TS]

00:43:47   yes seriously I don't know what you're [TS]

00:43:49   doing Casey's fear in his FOMO I don't [TS]

00:43:52   know why I wrote this cuz I wrote a [TS]

00:43:53   taste go but these women write and I [TS]

00:43:55   wrote it you don't even know what you [TS]

00:43:56   wrote [TS]

00:44:02   because you were asking before like if [TS]

00:44:04   you wrote you wrote fomo in here you did [TS]

00:44:07   that's a very kc thing to say [TS]

00:44:09   not kc thing to say sure but you're [TS]

00:44:13   you're above that I thought I didn't [TS]

00:44:14   think anyway it's the thing that you say [TS]

00:44:18   a lot so it's a good anyway this is [TS]

00:44:20   about you asking hey can I update hi [TS]

00:44:23   Sierra have freaking permission no you [TS]

00:44:27   just want reassurance in any way so it [TS]

00:44:29   like it's a balancing of your fear which [TS]

00:44:31   is like what if updated and house is my [TS]

00:44:32   computer and you're follow which is like [TS]

00:44:34   everyone else to run hi Sierra and [TS]

00:44:35   they're all having fun and hi Sierra and [TS]

00:44:37   I'm over here and just plain old Sierra [TS]

00:44:39   it's not high at all and I don't have [TS]

00:44:41   the cool new desktop background which is [TS]

00:44:42   the most important feature no I that [TS]

00:44:44   that I don't care about the most [TS]

00:44:45   important features Apple watch unlock [TS]

00:44:46   for my fancy cellular Apple watch the [TS]

00:44:49   desktop background is actually really [TS]

00:44:50   nice though so last time we talked I had [TS]

00:44:54   some peer about it it was like I'm not [TS]

00:44:55   fucking an update and it's a little bit [TS]

00:44:58   scary and you know you got the new file [TS]

00:45:01   system and the new version of photos and [TS]

00:45:03   hearing some weird stories and so on and [TS]

00:45:05   so forth but actually shortly after that [TS]

00:45:07   show an opportunity presented itself to [TS]

00:45:10   just update my wife's computer after [TS]

00:45:12   doing umpteen backups and so I did and [TS]

00:45:15   it was entirely uneventful other than [TS]

00:45:20   one one thing which I mean it's kind of [TS]

00:45:23   all tied up in the OS the new version of [TS]

00:45:25   photos which I've been playing with a [TS]

00:45:26   lot is being a little bit cranky I don't [TS]

00:45:29   know if I want to blame this on a new [TS]

00:45:30   version of photos because if you google [TS]

00:45:32   for the error I'm getting it is a many [TS]

00:45:33   many years old error Mike it's for the [TS]

00:45:36   entire life of the photos application [TS]

00:45:37   you can go back in time and see this is [TS]

00:45:39   not there's not a new phenomenon but [TS]

00:45:40   it's a thing where it hangs there in [TS]

00:45:42   closing library like you do you quit and [TS]

00:45:44   it shows a tiny little window that says [TS]

00:45:46   closing the library dot dot dot and then [TS]

00:45:48   it will just hang there forever you [TS]

00:45:49   leave it overnight and come back it'll [TS]

00:45:51   still stay closed in the library and of [TS]

00:45:52   course you don't want to kill it right [TS]

00:45:54   because you're like well it's gonna [TS]

00:45:55   corrupt its library or whatever it's [TS]

00:45:56   like oh just hold down the option key [TS]

00:45:58   when you launch it and you can repair [TS]

00:45:59   your database which I did and it took a [TS]

00:46:01   really long time to run and it repaired [TS]

00:46:02   and then I use photos for and then I [TS]

00:46:04   quit it's a closing library I just sent [TS]

00:46:06   that for a long time so I did a bunch of [TS]

00:46:08   samples I filed a bug they sent me back [TS]

00:46:10   some scary instructions to enable the [TS]

00:46:12   super duper debug mode on photos which I [TS]

00:46:14   may do if I get desperate but that's the [TS]

00:46:18   only problem I've had other than that I [TS]

00:46:19   just just pretend like nothing ever [TS]

00:46:21   happened there's like a new desktop [TS]

00:46:23   backgrounds for everybody and photos has [TS]

00:46:25   a bunch of new features in it but it's [TS]

00:46:26   still slow by the way and so I'm fine it [TS]

00:46:30   doesn't mean Casey should update cuz [TS]

00:46:32   maybe it will be disastrous for you but [TS]

00:46:34   I did it and nothing weird happened all [TS]

00:46:37   my time machine updates in here to run [TS]

00:46:38   crash planking things run no software [TS]

00:46:40   stopped working everything it just like [TS]

00:46:43   there's one of those updates where you [TS]

00:46:46   know it it seems like nothing actually [TS]

00:46:48   happens I guess means that I'm not [TS]

00:46:49   taking advantage of whatever a cool new [TS]

00:46:51   features are in there that I'm supposed [TS]

00:46:52   to be looking at but it's fine with me [TS]

00:46:53   that's what I wanted I wanted to be [TS]

00:46:55   uneventful and so far other than photos [TS]

00:46:57   being photos it is so I actually have hi [TS]

00:47:01   Sierra on both my work and my work [TS]

00:47:04   computer in my MacBook adorable and it's [TS]

00:47:07   been just fine but I've been scared / [TS]

00:47:11   hesitant to do it on my iMac because god [TS]

00:47:14   forbid there is some sort of issue with [TS]

00:47:15   you know my podcast equipment or [TS]

00:47:17   whatever I guess I could fall back to [TS]

00:47:18   Erin's MacBook Air and presumably pour [TS]

00:47:20   another cup of water on it but I'd [TS]

00:47:23   rather not have a problem but I [TS]

00:47:25   basically asked in the relay slack hey [TS]

00:47:28   have you guys upgraded and Dan Morey and [TS]

00:47:31   I think one or two other people had said [TS]

00:47:32   yes I have and it's been fine and it's [TS]

00:47:36   like I said it's been fine in every [TS]

00:47:38   other regard other than podcasting but I [TS]

00:47:40   hadn't tried any of the podcast related [TS]

00:47:42   stuff yet and I think the more the story [TS]

00:47:44   is I'm probably gonna do it after we [TS]

00:47:45   record this show not like tonight but [TS]

00:47:47   you know sometime in the next few days [TS]

00:47:48   make backups my computer that I'm [TS]

00:47:53   recording this podcast on is still [TS]

00:47:54   running El Capitan because it's my 2000 [TS]

00:47:56   a Mac Pro and Karen's here oh that's [TS]

00:47:59   fine like I'm saying is I wasn't if I [TS]

00:48:02   was trying to do it on the computer [TS]

00:48:03   where I recorded podcast maybe I'd be [TS]

00:48:04   even more wary but my wife's computer I [TS]

00:48:06   felt like you know I had her permission [TS]

00:48:09   more or less I talked to her about it [TS]

00:48:13   she just I was trying to say I you know [TS]

00:48:15   I'm thinking of you know it might I told [TS]

00:48:17   her it might take many many hours [TS]

00:48:18   because you can't say oh the update will [TS]

00:48:20   take like an hour but like you know what [TS]

00:48:22   if it had gone wrong with an add to [TS]

00:48:23   restore from backup that's like look [TS]

00:48:25   just I'm going to start this process at [TS]

00:48:27   noon on a Wii [TS]

00:48:28   again if I started a new and worst case [TS]

00:48:31   scenario you get your computer back [TS]

00:48:32   tomorrow midday as I just spent hours [TS]

00:48:35   doing tremendous amounts of io right all [TS]

00:48:38   right so let's do some ask ATP let's see [TS]

00:48:41   it'll start with Kyle Kyle writes in to [TS]

00:48:45   say hey ATP what browser do you guys use [TS]

00:48:47   I like the idea of using Safari on all [TS]

00:48:49   my devices but Chrome's extensions are [TS]

00:48:50   so much better [TS]

00:48:51   I do use I think I got this idea from [TS]

00:48:54   Marco actually I do use Chrome on [TS]

00:48:55   occasion as like my Google Docs slash [TS]

00:48:59   flash quarantine the flash part isn't [TS]

00:49:03   really a thing barely ever anymore but [TS]

00:49:04   from time to time I need it for some [TS]

00:49:06   reason or another other usually [TS]

00:49:07   restaurants but I use it for Google Docs [TS]

00:49:10   which is why I have it open for tonight [TS]

00:49:12   because I have that our show notes in [TS]

00:49:15   Google Docs [TS]

00:49:15   but generally speaking 99% of my web [TS]

00:49:19   browsing for anything personal is Safari [TS]

00:49:21   on every platform I also use Google for [TS]

00:49:23   work-related things because our work is [TS]

00:49:25   all in on Google Apps but other than [TS]

00:49:28   work and other than basically when I [TS]

00:49:30   record the show it's pretty much all [TS]

00:49:32   Safari to me I am NOT a heavy extensions [TS]

00:49:35   user on either browser personally I I [TS]

00:49:39   can't fathom using Chrome full-time [TS]

00:49:41   especially on a laptop but really at all [TS]

00:49:43   because I find it to be no faster than [TS]

00:49:47   Safari which I know everyone's gonna [TS]

00:49:48   write in and tell me how wrong I am but [TS]

00:49:50   I don't find it to be any faster than [TS]

00:49:51   Safari and it is such a battery hog that [TS]

00:49:54   it's just I can't do it I don't know and [TS]

00:49:56   personally I don't know why anyone would [TS]

00:49:58   so with that in mind Marco what do you [TS]

00:49:59   use pretty much same thing I've been [TS]

00:50:02   doing for a long time now which is [TS]

00:50:03   Safari for almost everything and then [TS]

00:50:06   Chrome on the desktop as you described [TS]

00:50:07   for either sites I don't trust or things [TS]

00:50:12   that require flash or things that are [TS]

00:50:14   generally in the Google ecosystem so [TS]

00:50:16   Google Docs as you mentioned it's kind [TS]

00:50:18   of like my podcasting brush like I'm I [TS]

00:50:20   have open now so like my first few tabs [TS]

00:50:23   or all like the stuff that I needed to [TS]

00:50:24   record podcast stuff because it started [TS]

00:50:27   out being Google Docs and it kind of you [TS]

00:50:28   know became my convention from there and [TS]

00:50:31   also I use Facebook for a couple of [TS]

00:50:33   groups that have to be a part of and so [TS]

00:50:36   I don't even have the app installed on [TS]

00:50:38   my phone or anything [TS]

00:50:39   I keep Facebook only in Chrome [TS]

00:50:42   and yeah not do anywhere else and don't [TS]

00:50:45   have you know their creepiness attract [TS]

00:50:47   me you know tracking me all over the [TS]

00:50:49   place and etc I i respect why people [TS]

00:50:54   like chrome that there were times in my [TS]

00:50:56   professional career and my home life [TS]

00:50:59   where I have used chrome full time I [TS]

00:51:02   ended up switching back after a while [TS]

00:51:04   but chrome is fine I just really like [TS]

00:51:07   Safari a lot better so I run both Chrome [TS]

00:51:10   and Safari all the time on all my [TS]

00:51:12   computers that I use which may sound [TS]

00:51:14   crazy remember I'd use desktops or I [TS]

00:51:15   have a lot of type of work that I [TS]

00:51:16   pretend is a desktop so I don't care [TS]

00:51:18   about battery because everything's [TS]

00:51:19   always plugged in now is this because [TS]

00:51:21   you're hitting some kind of limit on how [TS]

00:51:23   many tabs and windows that one of them [TS]

00:51:24   can have open at once you know why do I [TS]

00:51:31   do it this split by I feel like there [TS]

00:51:33   are advantages to both browsers Safari [TS]

00:51:35   has always been and still as my default [TS]

00:51:37   so if I click a link in anything it [TS]

00:51:38   opens in Safari I like both browsers a [TS]

00:51:41   lot Chrome I use all my Google stuff in [TS]

00:51:45   I use Gmail for my email and I figure [TS]

00:51:47   like there's a nice synergy which I'm [TS]

00:51:49   sure that like Google's properties or [TS]

00:51:50   whatever will all work well in Chrome [TS]

00:51:53   because it's in Google's interest to [TS]

00:51:54   make sure that's that they I'm sure they [TS]

00:51:55   work fine in Safari too but it just [TS]

00:51:58   seems more natural for me to do all my [TS]

00:52:00   Google stuff I use a Google Calendar [TS]

00:52:01   Google Docs you know all that stuff is [TS]

00:52:04   in Chrome and Safari for general web [TS]

00:52:07   browsing I use Chrome for general [TS]

00:52:10   browsing too cuz Safari still does [TS]

00:52:12   nothing occasionally to me where it just [TS]

00:52:13   says I'm not into loading web pages [TS]

00:52:15   anymore I always feel like it's selling [TS]

00:52:17   to me you have too many windows open [TS]

00:52:18   right like you've got a lot of Lee [TS]

00:52:20   you've got a lot of browser windows open [TS]

00:52:23   I know that you typed an address to the [TS]

00:52:26   address bar and hit return I might just [TS]

00:52:29   stay here as a white window for a while [TS]

00:52:30   to punish you for having like maybe I'm [TS]

00:52:32   not gonna load windows anymore and [TS]

00:52:34   furthering that fact and sometimes I'll [TS]

00:52:35   be like all right what if I close one of [TS]

00:52:37   these background windows and it's like [TS]

00:52:38   okay now I can load like I've said this [TS]

00:52:40   before like it feels like it's out of [TS]

00:52:41   file descriptors that's not what's [TS]

00:52:42   happening it doesn't say that in the [TS]

00:52:43   console but it's that type of feeling [TS]

00:52:44   where it's like it's exhaust is some [TS]

00:52:46   kind of resource whereas Chrome every [TS]

00:52:49   single time I open a new window or tab [TS]

00:52:51   and type a URL into the address bar and [TS]

00:52:53   hit return it loads the damn page every [TS]

00:52:55   single time [TS]

00:52:56   does and that is super important to me [TS]

00:52:58   and I love chrome for that and I also [TS]

00:53:00   use Chrome's dev tools and I don't love [TS]

00:53:03   this about Chrome but I use it for anode [TS]

00:53:04   debugging to I know there are better [TS]

00:53:06   solutions I'm just still stuck using [TS]

00:53:09   Chrome for that so I use both but [TS]

00:53:12   safaris my default but I do really love [TS]

00:53:14   Chrome and not because of all the [TS]

00:53:15   extensions I do have extensions [TS]

00:53:16   installed I just I just think it's a [TS]

00:53:18   good reliable web browser all right [TS]

00:53:22   Sebastian writes in continuing on the [TS]

00:53:24   John portion of the show what are John's [TS]

00:53:27   thoughts on the new Accord and we kind [TS]

00:53:28   of touched on this in what will probably [TS]

00:53:30   end up being the after show that we [TS]

00:53:32   talked about before we started really [TS]

00:53:34   recording so you may not have heard this [TS]

00:53:36   listeners but there will be more a chord [TS]

00:53:38   talk at some point or another but John [TS]

00:53:40   what are your thoughts on the new Accord [TS]

00:53:41   I think it's ugly er than my generation [TS]

00:53:43   of a chord which is a shame I like the [TS]

00:53:45   fact that you get the stick shift with [TS]

00:53:46   the big engine I'm not sure about [TS]

00:53:50   anything beyond that because I haven't [TS]

00:53:52   actually driven it myself all I can say [TS]

00:53:54   is that it seems like Honda is going in [TS]

00:53:57   the right direction with those cars and [TS]

00:53:58   it's getting good reviews but I'm kind [TS]

00:54:00   of glad that both I and my wife got the [TS]

00:54:01   previous generation the only thing I'm [TS]

00:54:03   really jealous of in the new one is the [TS]

00:54:06   infotainment because my apartment is [TS]

00:54:07   dire and this one is less dire koumei [TS]

00:54:11   writes in for command line work do you [TS]

00:54:13   just use terminal or are you partial to [TS]

00:54:14   a third-party app and so marcos since [TS]

00:54:17   you were quiet before let's start with [TS]

00:54:18   you I had forgotten that there even were [TS]

00:54:21   third-party terminal app site so it [TS]

00:54:23   weighs is this the question about [TS]

00:54:24   third-party terminal window like [TS]

00:54:26   terminal clients or is it about like [TS]

00:54:29   using gooeys versus terminal commands [TS]

00:54:33   for things like MySQL and get and stuff [TS]

00:54:36   like that let's make it all of the above [TS]

00:54:39   so hey what what what what shell are you [TS]

00:54:42   on B and what kind of Orion whatever you [TS]

00:54:45   please don't confuse that with terminal [TS]

00:54:47   you know it's one of my pet peeves why [TS]

00:54:48   would you do that to me John I was one [TS]

00:54:53   of your pet peeves actually I wasn't [TS]

00:54:54   either but okay so a long list are you [TS]

00:54:56   on a bash or something else or whatever [TS]

00:55:00   ridiculous one that John insists on are [TS]

00:55:01   you on the the stock terminal app or [TS]

00:55:04   something else and when you're doing [TS]

00:55:06   things like git do you tend to do that [TS]

00:55:07   on the command line or else [TS]

00:55:08   so all three of those starting with [TS]

00:55:11   Marco and I have answers as well but [TS]

00:55:13   I'll round I'll round us all out at the [TS]

00:55:15   end okay I use apples normal terminal [TS]

00:55:18   app I find it great I have never sought [TS]

00:55:21   a different one because I'm very happy [TS]

00:55:23   with it you know I use Bosch because you [TS]

00:55:28   know probably the same reason most [TS]

00:55:29   people use Bosch it's already there and [TS]

00:55:31   it's what I've always known I know there [TS]

00:55:34   are better shells out there but it has [TS]

00:55:35   just never been worth it for me to not [TS]

00:55:38   only you know learn new shell but then [TS]

00:55:40   to put it on all the different not only [TS]

00:55:43   Mac's but all the servers that I login [TS]

00:55:44   to I mean I log in to like 30 surfers on [TS]

00:55:47   a regular basis so it's not like yes I [TS]

00:55:50   can't you know you could try to like [TS]

00:55:51   automate stuff but like it would just it [TS]

00:55:53   would be a pain for me to switch away [TS]

00:55:54   from bash and IR and it's fine I know [TS]

00:55:57   it's not amazing but it's fine as for [TS]

00:56:01   you know gooeys versus terminal commands [TS]

00:56:04   for you know things that programmers [TS]

00:56:07   deal with so things like git MySQL you [TS]

00:56:10   know PHP and any kind of like in a [TS]

00:56:14   database source control kind of stuff I [TS]

00:56:16   use terminals terminal commands for [TS]

00:56:19   almost all of it including any kind of [TS]

00:56:22   you know MySQL administration things [TS]

00:56:25   like that the only thing I really use [TS]

00:56:27   gooeys for is I do still use them I do [TS]

00:56:31   now use them forget I used the the get [TS]

00:56:34   tower app for Mac it is wonderful and I [TS]

00:56:39   I know most of the git commands that you [TS]

00:56:43   know to use it via terminal or by [TS]

00:56:44   command line but get is terrible on the [TS]

00:56:47   command line I mean it's hard enough to [TS]

00:56:48   understand in a GUI let alone the [TS]

00:56:50   command line and so I find that while I [TS]

00:56:52   can do these things in the command line [TS]

00:56:54   I usually prefer not to because not only [TS]

00:56:56   is the GUI less error-prone and more [TS]

00:56:59   intuitive for these kind of things but [TS]

00:57:01   it also provides some really nice [TS]

00:57:02   features like the way it it diffs and [TS]

00:57:05   displays commits and and and file diffs [TS]

00:57:08   and per line difts and everything it's [TS]

00:57:10   really nice people to visualize that and [TS]

00:57:11   a really nice GUI so I can tell like [TS]

00:57:13   what have I changed in this file what am [TS]

00:57:16   I actually committing you know here and [TS]

00:57:18   we're exactly what lines have changed [TS]

00:57:19   where have they changed it just it's way [TS]

00:57:22   you know all the stuff is possible on [TS]

00:57:24   the command line but it's just so much [TS]

00:57:26   easier in the GUI John Courtney [TS]

00:57:29   forgotten what all their questions okay [TS]

00:57:33   the terminal app I use the default [TS]

00:57:36   terminal one and always have it has been [TS]

00:57:38   very reliable to me [TS]

00:57:39   I think I first fell in love with it [TS]

00:57:41   when i saw the unlimited scroll back [TS]

00:57:43   feature that's all i want life girl back [TS]

00:57:47   use all my memories life just scroll [TS]

00:57:51   back cuz I might keep my computer [TS]

00:57:53   running for a long time and windows open [TS]

00:57:55   for a month although actually I'm kind [TS]

00:57:56   of a bit of a serial command carrier in [TS]

00:58:00   terminal like trunk getting the scroll [TS]

00:58:02   back which I shouldn't do and I should [TS]

00:58:04   use marks but I don't but anyway [TS]

00:58:06   plain old terminal I have dabbled and [TS]

00:58:08   things like I term and stuff but just [TS]

00:58:10   terminal as is what I've always used and [TS]

00:58:13   it's always been so reliable and it just [TS]

00:58:15   does its job and all the the basics like [TS]

00:58:19   copying pasting text and having it you [TS]

00:58:21   know not copy hard line breaks at the [TS]

00:58:24   end like crappy Windows terminal [TS]

00:58:26   programs do and stuff like that just [TS]

00:58:27   everything works fine when I and when I [TS]

00:58:30   when I scroll my mouse wheel or you know [TS]

00:58:33   like or use the the cursor in Emacs and [TS]

00:58:36   it picks it up like I don't have to set [TS]

00:58:38   all that stuff up it's the terminal type [TS]

00:58:40   is set correctly for all the Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:58:42   things expected to be anyway it's fine [TS]

00:58:45   I'm sure the other ones are better but I [TS]

00:58:47   don't use them so plain old terminal for [TS]

00:58:51   what was the next one command line [TS]

00:58:53   versus GUI apps for shell program or [TS]

00:58:55   anything Oh she'll should I use a cc SH [TS]

00:58:57   because that's what was installed on the [TS]

00:58:59   ACS system at bu when I entered College [TS]

00:59:02   in 1993 that's it I just have a [TS]

00:59:05   collection of doute files that I've been [TS]

00:59:06   building up since then I have also [TS]

00:59:07   dabbled in other shells but I was no way [TS]

00:59:09   I'm gonna redo all my dot files and [TS]

00:59:11   aliases I like tssh and it would take me [TS]

00:59:14   a while for any shell I actually tried [TS]

00:59:16   fish as well it would take me a while [TS]

00:59:17   for any shell for me to i would have to [TS]

00:59:20   basically remap everything i'd have to [TS]

00:59:21   say i need control R to be reversed [TS]

00:59:24   history search interactive and I need it [TS]

00:59:27   to behave exactly the same way as tcsh [TS]

00:59:29   does because if it doesn't my fingers [TS]

00:59:30   won't work anymore and I don't need to [TS]

00:59:32   go with that so I dread the day that I [TS]

00:59:33   like compiled Thea tcsh myself the [TS]

00:59:35   example stop shipping it but so far they [TS]

00:59:37   still do and for program retype apps [TS]

00:59:44   pretty much always command-line like I [TS]

00:59:46   you know I spend many many years using [TS]

00:59:48   perforce and I only use the command-line [TS]

00:59:50   the only time I use the GUI I'm sorry [TS]

00:59:52   it's not that bad oh wait that one time [TS]

00:59:54   I use the gooeys my name did you see [TS]

00:59:55   like a revision graph or some other sort [TS]

00:59:57   of GUI thing and the P for V app but [TS]

00:59:57   of GUI thing and the P for V app but [TS]

01:00:00   I kind of feel like that I don't [TS]

01:00:01   actually know the version control system [TS]

01:00:03   if I don't know how to use the command [TS]

01:00:04   line and get is the ultimate challenge [TS]

01:00:06   that it's like oh yeah try using this [TS]

01:00:08   freaking command line I hate it with a [TS]

01:00:10   passion is so poorly designed everything [TS]

01:00:13   about it is terrible and I'm terribly [TS]

01:00:15   good because I've only been using it [TS]

01:00:17   like it worked basically for I don't [TS]

01:00:19   know like less than a year now I never [TS]

01:00:21   really really learned it even though [TS]

01:00:23   I've read a million tutorials and at one [TS]

01:00:25   point I feel like I finally understand [TS]

01:00:26   get but that was like years ago when it [TS]

01:00:27   was first created someone wrote a really [TS]

01:00:29   good explanation of exactly how it works [TS]

01:00:32   under the covers and it's like oh now I [TS]

01:00:33   get it [TS]

01:00:34   but you know years past and it all [TS]

01:00:38   leaves your head and nothing sticks in [TS]

01:00:39   there because the command line is so [TS]

01:00:40   unintuitive and yet I still basically [TS]

01:00:43   forced myself to use the command line I [TS]

01:00:44   just make mistakes and I've tried give [TS]

01:00:47   tower and the github as Annapolis the [TS]

01:00:50   other one there's like a third one [TS]

01:00:51   that's popular on the Mac SourceTree [TS]

01:00:53   yeah that's one there's and there's one [TS]

01:00:55   that's side by side get box I think yeah [TS]

01:00:56   get box yeah get boxes the other one [TS]

01:00:58   yeah I have all those installed and in [TS]

01:01:00   caves my dive into them but I I feel [TS]

01:01:02   wary about doing any version control [TS]

01:01:05   stuff from the way and things like my [TS]

01:01:06   sequel and stuff like that I've [TS]

01:01:08   command-line always like you know the [TS]

01:01:10   the Postgres command-line is great now I [TS]

01:01:12   was spoiled by that though my sequel [TS]

01:01:13   command line isn't that bad the Oracle [TS]

01:01:15   you know sequel plus is the worst [TS]

01:01:17   command line ever created by a human [TS]

01:01:18   being and yet still I don't it'll make [TS]

01:01:22   you feel better about it if you've never [TS]

01:01:24   had the pleasure to use [TS]

01:01:26   sequel Star Plus or whatever the hell [TS]

01:01:28   that weird name is so bad but I'm also [TS]

01:01:33   use the command line once for those and [TS]

01:01:34   I still have the gooeys installs and [TS]

01:01:35   will fire fire them up occasionally like [TS]

01:01:37   Oracle has sequel develop Oracle sequel [TS]

01:01:39   developer or whatever but just they're [TS]

01:01:40   not good GUI apps even if they run the [TS]

01:01:43   Mac they usually like weird Java things [TS]

01:01:44   or they they seem weird and the native [TS]

01:01:46   my sequel and Postgres clients they're [TS]

01:01:48   nice but the best interface I've ever [TS]

01:01:51   had isn't like a database has been the [TS]

01:01:53   Postgres command line like better than [TS]

01:01:55   any GUI that I've used so that's it so [TS]

01:01:58   for me I use fish shell for reasons I [TS]

01:02:02   don't even really know I just it's color [TS]

01:02:04   coded nicely some of the scripting I [TS]

01:02:06   like more because I've never I was never [TS]

01:02:08   really proficient in like bash scripting [TS]

01:02:10   or anything else so [TS]

01:02:12   it makes logical choices in places where [TS]

01:02:15   I would expect a logical choice which is [TS]

01:02:17   probably more about my own ignorance of [TS]

01:02:19   Bosch than anything else [TS]

01:02:21   I do basic command line stuff forget [TS]

01:02:24   four basic things a lot of the time I'm [TS]

01:02:27   probably oh man I'd say I probably 50/50 [TS]

01:02:29   with git tower and the command line and [TS]

01:02:31   certainly any time things get really [TS]

01:02:33   wonky I'm looking at git tower because I [TS]

01:02:35   agree with the both of you and I'm sure [TS]

01:02:37   we're gonna get a bunch of feedback [TS]

01:02:38   about it but I agree with you guys that [TS]

01:02:40   get on the command line is really weird [TS]

01:02:43   and has never really clicked with me and [TS]

01:02:46   I use the terminal app so terminal app [TS]

01:02:49   fish and get tower with get on the [TS]

01:02:51   command line from time to time and that [TS]

01:02:53   concludes ask ATP we are sponsored this [TS]

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01:03:15   narrators that really bring these books [TS]

01:03:17   to life and in addition to audio books [TS]

01:03:19   there are many audible exclusives and [TS]

01:03:21   original audio shows there's tons of [TS]

01:03:24   time where you can fit this into your [TS]

01:03:25   life whether it's on your commute every [TS]

01:03:27   day whether you know train taking long [TS]

01:03:29   car rides very popular with you know [TS]

01:03:32   people who are taking walks or [TS]

01:03:33   exercising audiobooks are wonderful you [TS]

01:03:36   can see for yourself with a free 30-day [TS]

01:03:38   trial and your first audio book is free [TS]

01:03:41   go to audible.com slash ATP to see for [TS]

01:03:44   yourself I'm recently reading the book [TS]

01:03:47   called arbitrary stupid goal by Tamara [TS]

01:03:50   shops in' of the wonderful famous new [TS]

01:03:53   york shops and family it's it's so New [TS]

01:03:56   York I really love it [TS]

01:03:58   culturally just world view language it's [TS]

01:04:00   it's just delightful if you're really [TS]

01:04:02   into like the New York style so once [TS]

01:04:05   again arbitrary stupid goal by Tamara [TS]

01:04:06   shops in' it's just great anyway go to [TS]

01:04:09   audible.com slash [TS]

01:04:11   ATP and you can get a free audiobook [TS]

01:04:14   when you sign up with a 30-day free [TS]

01:04:16   trial at audible.com slash ATP again [TS]

01:04:18   thank you so much to audible for [TS]

01:04:20   sponsoring our show [TS]

01:04:22   I have a question and I don't really [TS]

01:04:28   expect either of you to have an answer [TS]

01:04:30   but at one point and I believe this was [TS]

01:04:34   before I had installed it on my watch [TS]

01:04:38   but I might have my details wrong but at [TS]

01:04:40   one point I had my watch or excuse me I [TS]

01:04:43   had my phone I think it was like in the [TS]

01:04:45   house upstairs far enough away that the [TS]

01:04:48   watch couldn't see it and maybe I was on [TS]

01:04:50   a walk maybe I was in the house on the [TS]

01:04:51   other side of the house we don't have a [TS]

01:04:52   terribly large house but I guess we were [TS]

01:04:54   on opposite ends of the house from each [TS]

01:04:55   other whatever but the point is my watch [TS]

01:04:58   was on cellular and I got a push [TS]

01:05:00   notification from the app dude eue but [TS]

01:05:05   my watch was on cellular and I hadn't [TS]

01:05:08   used the app on my watch at all at that [TS]

01:05:11   point I don't believe like I don't think [TS]

01:05:12   I had installed it on my watch I might [TS]

01:05:14   be wrong about that so maybe I've [TS]

01:05:15   answered my own question but my question [TS]

01:05:18   is if the watch app wasn't installed and [TS]

01:05:22   I got a do push notification but all of [TS]

01:05:28   the all of the stuff that that was in do [TS]

01:05:31   you was living only on the phone like I [TS]

01:05:32   don't think I'd set up by cloud syncing [TS]

01:05:34   or anything like that how did I get that [TS]

01:05:37   push notification so in summary is the [TS]

01:05:39   is Apple proxying push notifications [TS]

01:05:43   from the phone to the watch does that [TS]

01:05:46   make sense because in theory this wasn't [TS]

01:05:49   a push notification from like some [TS]

01:05:51   server somewhere it was from the phone [TS]

01:05:55   itself so it's like the phone calling [TS]

01:05:57   home to Apple and saying hey can you [TS]

01:06:00   push this notification to the watch [TS]

01:06:02   because I can't find it myself again I [TS]

01:06:05   don't know if I really expect an answer [TS]

01:06:07   from you guys but it seemed the wonky [TS]

01:06:10   that I was and it was good it was a good [TS]

01:06:12   thing don't get me wrong but it seemed [TS]

01:06:13   wonky that I was getting a push [TS]

01:06:14   notification for something I didn't [TS]

01:06:16   expect on my watch should have written [TS]

01:06:18   in to ask ATP did I try that once and [TS]

01:06:22   you yelled at me to put it in the show [TS]

01:06:23   notes I'm pretty sure that's what [TS]

01:06:25   happened I don't I don't [TS]

01:06:26   Marco I'm assuming we'll have the best [TS]

01:06:28   answer for this if any of us do but the [TS]

01:06:30   only thing I have dad is having just [TS]

01:06:32   gone through the watch setup process [TS]

01:06:33   when I was nuking my [TS]

01:06:35   reinstalling watch OS 3 before upgrading [TS]

01:06:37   to four was I was reminded again that [TS]

01:06:39   there's an option somewhere and that the [TS]

01:06:40   watch app preferences that says watch [TS]

01:06:42   mirrors notifications on phone sure [TS]

01:06:45   sorry and that would seem like they were [TS]

01:06:47   doing what you said oh it's a local [TS]

01:06:48   notification and the watch is set to [TS]

01:06:50   mirror any notification that happens on [TS]

01:06:52   your phone and so it did well but I [TS]

01:06:54   think that's more about the settings for [TS]

01:06:56   notifications so as an example let's [TS]

01:06:58   take do with the app Tue well okay if [TS]

01:07:01   it's say if you're saying mirror what [TS]

01:07:03   the phone settings are that means just [TS]

01:07:05   do what the phone is doing and if that [TS]

01:07:06   means play a sound and show it on the [TS]

01:07:09   lock screen then the watch will get a [TS]

01:07:11   sound and it'll show it you know just [TS]

01:07:13   like any other notification if you've [TS]

01:07:15   muted the notifications on the phone [TS]

01:07:17   then the watch would not receive those [TS]

01:07:19   notifications this is in contrast to [TS]

01:07:20   going into the watch app on your phone [TS]

01:07:22   and saying no I don't want do on my [TS]

01:07:24   watch even though I do want it on my [TS]

01:07:26   phone that's a terrible choice of [TS]

01:07:28   examples because now I'm using D UE and [TS]

01:07:30   do it back to back but hopefully you get [TS]

01:07:33   what I'm driving at so it just it I [TS]

01:07:35   think this is something different which [TS]

01:07:37   is it felt as though and somebody in the [TS]

01:07:40   chat is saying the same thing it felt as [TS]

01:07:42   though there was a push notification [TS]

01:07:44   that was that was sourced from my phone [TS]

01:07:48   that wound up on my watch when my watch [TS]

01:07:51   was on cellular and thus could not [TS]

01:07:53   connect to the phone so is that being [TS]

01:07:56   proxied by Apple or is there something [TS]

01:07:57   some other trickery going on or am I [TS]

01:07:59   just plain bananas Marco thoughts I [TS]

01:08:02   don't think we know yeah I don't think [TS]

01:08:05   we do either and and I appreciate that [TS]

01:08:07   you think I would have more information [TS]

01:08:09   on this as presumably an app developer [TS]

01:08:11   but I don't it would be an interesting [TS]

01:08:14   to know whether the notification you [TS]

01:08:16   receive in your watch was a local [TS]

01:08:18   notification or a remote push [TS]

01:08:19   notification because you mention that [TS]

01:08:22   you weren't really sure about that I [TS]

01:08:24   don't know how do work I don't use it so [TS]

01:08:26   I'm not sure but if it was a remote push [TS]

01:08:30   notification that would be easier to [TS]

01:08:32   figure out because like the way the way [TS]

01:08:34   push notifications work on the app side [TS]

01:08:35   is whenever you say yes you can send [TS]

01:08:38   this device notifications when you first [TS]

01:08:40   install the app the app gets a token [TS]

01:08:42   that it can use just like a long string [TS]

01:08:44   that identifies that device and when the [TS]

01:08:46   app is Center notifications [TS]

01:08:48   the server-side it just basically sends [TS]

01:08:52   a notification service like that token [TS]

01:08:53   and then a JSON dictionary of what the [TS]

01:08:56   notification content should be so it [TS]

01:08:58   would be perfectly reasonable I don't [TS]

01:09:00   think the watch gets its own eyes yeah [TS]

01:09:04   yeah but it would be perfectly [TS]

01:09:05   reasonable for the push notification [TS]

01:09:07   service if it if it knows of a walk that [TS]

01:09:10   is on LTE to just forward anything that [TS]

01:09:13   goes to the phones token also to the [TS]

01:09:15   watch what if it's the local [TS]

01:09:17   notification that's a different story [TS]

01:09:18   though that's a very different [TS]

01:09:19   implementation that would mean right as [TS]

01:09:21   you theorize the phone would have to [TS]

01:09:23   basically like realize it couldn't [TS]

01:09:25   contact the watch send the local [TS]

01:09:28   notification back up to Apple for it to [TS]

01:09:30   be sent back over to the phone heir to [TS]

01:09:33   the watch rather and that's a little bit [TS]

01:09:35   weird when you consider the possibility [TS]

01:09:36   that a phone can be paired to multiple [TS]

01:09:38   watches so like needs it's a very [TS]

01:09:42   complicated setup when you're thinking [TS]

01:09:44   about the LTE watch like it's it sounds [TS]

01:09:47   kind of like a checkbox of like oh this [TS]

01:09:50   year they added LTE okay like done but [TS]

01:09:54   in practice it was probably way more [TS]

01:09:56   complicated than the hep because of [TS]

01:09:58   things like this people are gonna expect [TS]

01:10:00   it to just work and Apple has to figure [TS]

01:10:02   out how to implement whatever that means [TS]

01:10:04   and it's you know so it wouldn't [TS]

01:10:07   surprise me if they actually did it if [TS]

01:10:08   they actually have some kind of crazy [TS]

01:10:10   proxying system where they're setting [TS]

01:10:11   local notifications from the phone back [TS]

01:10:13   up to Apple and then back over to the [TS]

01:10:15   watch when consider felt elated it [TS]

01:10:16   actually might do that but I don't know [TS]

01:10:18   and it certainly seems like a lot of the [TS]

01:10:21   stuff regarding LTE on the watch is [TS]

01:10:24   super early and possibly even a little [TS]

01:10:26   bit unfinished so it wouldn't surprise [TS]

01:10:29   me also if this was nothing fancy going [TS]

01:10:32   on if it was just like the same push [TS]

01:10:34   token being used remotely by Apple [TS]

01:10:36   servers or the other option is maybe it [TS]

01:10:40   was local up to your phone but that it [TS]

01:10:44   actually did receive it already or it [TS]

01:10:46   was a local notification scheduled to go [TS]

01:10:48   at a certain time and the watch just [TS]

01:10:51   copied that over last time it talked to [TS]

01:10:53   the phone so it just knew like alright [TS]

01:10:55   well over the next 24 hours or whatever [TS]

01:10:56   I'm gonna need these notifications and [TS]

01:10:57   so here I'll just copy them all over and [TS]

01:10:59   then I'll show them if if the phone is [TS]

01:11:01   nearby so there are so many ways they [TS]

01:11:03   could do this we don't really know how [TS]

01:11:05   they did yeah [TS]

01:11:06   and that that totally makes sense and [TS]

01:11:08   like you said I don't think we're going [TS]

01:11:10   to know unless a little birdie reaches [TS]

01:11:12   out hint hint it just was it was [TS]

01:11:16   interesting to me because it felt like [TS]

01:11:18   and I wish I had taken better notes or [TS]

01:11:20   had paid more attention but this like [TS]

01:11:21   happened in the midst of me doing [TS]

01:11:23   something with Declan and I took enough [TS]

01:11:24   of a note to remind myself that I wanted [TS]

01:11:26   to talk to you guys about it but I [TS]

01:11:27   didn't have the time to document you [TS]

01:11:29   know repro steps or anything like that [TS]

01:11:31   anyway so the point is it just felt like [TS]

01:11:33   the sort of thing where maybe it was [TS]

01:11:35   being proxied by Apple and that was kind [TS]

01:11:38   of cool I mean it was again the behavior [TS]

01:11:40   was what I wanted it's not like the [TS]

01:11:41   behavior was bad it was just unexpected [TS]

01:11:43   that's all so we'll see I don't know [TS]

01:11:45   we'll figure it out one way or the other [TS]

01:11:47   but I think all of your less fancy but [TS]

01:11:50   also more probable interpretations make [TS]

01:11:53   perfect sense to me so who knows John [TS]

01:11:57   apparently everything's coming up [TS]

01:11:59   siracusa this week because that's a [TS]

01:12:02   reference by the way Twitter if ik for [TS]

01:12:04   Mac it is back and it is out so tell me [TS]

01:12:07   about it yeah this is quick follow-up [TS]

01:12:09   people asked I think up here in the [TS]

01:12:12   wrong section oh you know what I mean [TS]

01:12:13   it's it's yeah anyway because we've [TS]

01:12:16   asked about it and asked ADP hey how [TS]

01:12:18   you're liking the the Phoenix betas [TS]

01:12:20   which was the name of this application [TS]

01:12:22   when it was testing for the Kickstarter [TS]

01:12:23   things this is that whole Kickstarter [TS]

01:12:25   that a lot of people funded to get them [TS]

01:12:27   to bring back their Mac application [TS]

01:12:29   which they have that languish because [TS]

01:12:31   they just were no customers for it and [TS]

01:12:33   then the Kickstarter gave them enough [TS]

01:12:34   money to remake the app and so I've been [TS]

01:12:37   using it for a long time and it's great [TS]

01:12:38   and as I said in the last guest about [TS]

01:12:41   this I'm joining it that's exactly what [TS]

01:12:43   I wanted now it is out for everybody to [TS]

01:12:47   buy it is on the Mac App Store I think [TS]

01:12:49   there might let me click through is [TS]

01:12:51   there a direct download I don't even [TS]

01:12:52   know anyway Twitter AFRICOM slash Mac [TS]

01:12:54   the link will be in the show notes if [TS]

01:12:55   you're interested in a Mac Twitter [TS]

01:12:57   client and you don't like any of the Mac [TS]

01:12:59   to our clients that are out there check [TS]

01:13:01   this one out it's got an adorable icon [TS]

01:13:03   the most important feature of this [TS]

01:13:04   Twitter application as far as I'm [TS]

01:13:05   concerned is that it has my beloved [TS]

01:13:06   unified timeline which gives you a list [TS]

01:13:09   of all the tweets that are you know [TS]

01:13:11   related to you [TS]

01:13:13   mentions replies direct messages and all [TS]

01:13:16   the tweets from the people you follow [TS]

01:13:17   and their RT it's just one big long [TS]

01:13:19   chronological timeline from the past to [TS]

01:13:22   the future that's it and you have the [TS]

01:13:25   other views to it don't just just see my [TS]

01:13:26   mentions direct messages searches all [TS]

01:13:29   sorts of stuff that's all there too but [TS]

01:13:30   the important feature is the unified [TS]

01:13:32   timeline sorting and it's just a nice [TS]

01:13:34   Twitter client so check it out if you're [TS]

01:13:36   interested yeah so and I kept oh and the [TS]

01:13:40   other important feature is on iOS the [TS]

01:13:42   Twitter freak has always been updated on [TS]

01:13:44   iOS and it continues to be updated [TS]

01:13:45   because it's you know more viable [TS]

01:13:47   platform than Mac these days and you're [TS]

01:13:50   reading position is synced between the [TS]

01:13:53   Mac and iOS version we're just super [TS]

01:13:54   important because ever read a bunch of [TS]

01:13:55   stuff in my phone and I come to iMac I [TS]

01:13:56   wanted to realize what I read on my [TS]

01:13:58   phone in my one big chronological on [TS]

01:13:59   line and it does and it's great and it's [TS]

01:14:01   got laser beams if you know where to [TS]

01:14:03   find them that's awesome all right John [TS]

01:14:07   tell me about Apple TV gaming this is [TS]

01:14:10   from was it the September event that's [TS]

01:14:13   of stuff from the September event [TS]

01:14:14   lurking down there for a long time and I [TS]

01:14:17   didn't want this one to fall at the end [TS]

01:14:19   do you remember [TS]

01:14:20   they did the gaming segment in that [TS]

01:14:23   event yeah there was that that journey [TS]

01:14:26   or whatever it is [TS]

01:14:27   knock off or not knock off what is it [TS]

01:14:30   that game company that game company made [TS]

01:14:32   another game or something like that I'm [TS]

01:14:34   trying not to offend you and I think I'm [TS]

01:14:36   failing yeah I never liked the name of [TS]

01:14:37   that company that game companies it's [TS]

01:14:39   like clever initially but then it's like [TS]

01:14:41   all lowercase oh shit anyway B so this [TS]

01:14:44   is Apple TV in gaming we talked a lot [TS]

01:14:45   about this before about whether they [TS]

01:14:47   should ship a controller with it and [TS]

01:14:49   whether they should allow people to ship [TS]

01:14:51   games that require a controller which [TS]

01:14:53   they flip-flopped on and now they're [TS]

01:14:54   saying yes they will and how viable is [TS]

01:14:56   it as a gaming platform versus things [TS]

01:14:58   like the switch or a real game console [TS]

01:15:01   or PC or Mac gaming even the steam and [TS]

01:15:04   everything and so here Apple is again at [TS]

01:15:07   an important keynote spending time to [TS]

01:15:10   talk about it was the Apple TV 4k but [TS]

01:15:12   you know the gaming angle on and they [TS]

01:15:16   brought out on stage you know a third [TS]

01:15:19   party game developer very well known in [TS]

01:15:21   the industry because they are the makers [TS]

01:15:22   of the journey which is a game that I [TS]

01:15:24   love and a couple other arts [TS]

01:15:25   two games they made before that which [TS]

01:15:27   they're also bringing died or at least [TS]

01:15:29   they brought flower to iOS which was [TS]

01:15:31   erroneously identified as their first [TS]

01:15:34   game but it was not their first game [TS]

01:15:35   anyway that I mean that seems like an [TS]

01:15:38   aside but I think it factors into what [TS]

01:15:40   I'm going to say and a little bit about [TS]

01:15:41   it and this is it's not bringing out the [TS]

01:15:45   big guns it's not like they you know [TS]

01:15:46   Nintendo is on stage with their D do [TS]

01:15:49   that with Mary run I think but it's not [TS]

01:15:50   like you know Apple buys Nintendo or [TS]

01:15:54   like you know Ubisoft or EA announce all [TS]

01:15:58   their future games will be on Apple TV [TS]

01:16:00   or like but it is significant in that [TS]

01:16:05   getting that game company to port their [TS]

01:16:07   games and to make their new game which [TS]

01:16:09   is called sky on Apple's platform that [TS]

01:16:14   only has significance for people who [TS]

01:16:16   follow the game industry for people who [TS]

01:16:18   were in two games for most people [TS]

01:16:19   they've never heard of that game company [TS]

01:16:21   they don't know what flower is or [TS]

01:16:23   haven't played journey like you have to [TS]

01:16:25   be somewhat involved in the gaming [TS]

01:16:29   industry to understand why it's in any [TS]

01:16:32   way impressive the Jenova Chen is up on [TS]

01:16:34   stage for them you don't have to be so [TS]

01:16:35   much in the game industry to be [TS]

01:16:36   impressed the Miyamoto is telling you [TS]

01:16:38   the Mara is coming to iOS right lots of [TS]

01:16:40   name recognition there but that game [TS]

01:16:42   company is more obscuring yet if you [TS]

01:16:45   were to get someone who knew a lot about [TS]

01:16:48   gaming to say what's one company you can [TS]

01:16:52   get on stage that will make people think [TS]

01:16:54   that you're getting more serious about [TS]

01:16:56   gaming without you having to spend [TS]

01:16:58   billions of dollars to actually buy a [TS]

01:16:59   Nintendo or convince one of the big game [TS]

01:17:02   makers to put all their future games on [TS]

01:17:04   your platform or whatever you could find [TS]

01:17:06   a company that basically bankrupted [TS]

01:17:08   itself producing journey had an [TS]

01:17:11   exclusive contract with but Sony and [TS]

01:17:13   PlayStation which is why journey isn't [TS]

01:17:15   on other platforms and would be in the [TS]

01:17:18   market to say we're trying to start the [TS]

01:17:19   company back up again who's got a bunch [TS]

01:17:21   of money to dump on our head so we'll [TS]

01:17:22   make our next game for their platform [TS]

01:17:24   and I'm sure I'm sure Sony approached [TS]

01:17:26   them because you know they made a lot of [TS]

01:17:28   money for Sony with journey and flour [TS]

01:17:29   and flow and you know the line yards and [TS]

01:17:32   probably Microsoft approached them and [TS]

01:17:34   here is the unlikely third [TS]

01:17:38   suitor in Apple who has a lot of money [TS]

01:17:41   to dump on people's heads and for [TS]

01:17:43   whatever reason maybe they dumped more [TS]

01:17:44   money or maybe that game company in [TS]

01:17:47   Genova cham we're tired of dealing with [TS]

01:17:48   Sony or Microsoft or you know whatever [TS]

01:17:51   they went with Apple and so they're [TS]

01:17:54   making sky on Apple TV now if anyone who [TS]

01:17:56   follows the game industry knows that [TS]

01:17:57   exclusive platform exclusives are things [TS]

01:18:01   that people love to announce but they're [TS]

01:18:04   only really exclusive in certain more [TS]

01:18:06   extreme cases where it's kind of a [TS]

01:18:08   second-party developer or a very tight [TS]

01:18:10   relationship where this will never be on [TS]

01:18:13   another platform because we've really [TS]

01:18:14   typed the rights but a lot of times [TS]

01:18:16   things are exclusive to Xbox exclusive [TS]

01:18:18   to PlayStation for three months for six [TS]

01:18:22   months for less time that timed [TS]

01:18:23   exclusives they call them which is like [TS]

01:18:25   so you mean not exclusive then right [TS]

01:18:27   this is a multi-platform game it just [TS]

01:18:28   goes on one platform first or it's a [TS]

01:18:30   multi-platform game and ships on one [TS]

01:18:32   three days before everything else in [TS]

01:18:33   this special you know features for that [TS]

01:18:37   one anyway I'm not clear whether it's [TS]

01:18:40   either way they gave enough money to [TS]

01:18:43   help the development of this game and [TS]

01:18:44   also money to port their old games that [TS]

01:18:47   they were able to I said I don't think [TS]

01:18:49   they can port journey because I think [TS]

01:18:49   Sony's got the rights to that all [TS]

01:18:51   wrapped up but we'll see yeah I mean [TS]

01:18:52   that's speaking about if Apple wants [TS]

01:18:55   journey I'm sure they can give Sony a [TS]

01:18:56   bucketful of money and they would get it [TS]

01:18:58   bringing all those to Apple TV and it's [TS]

01:19:01   a little bit of a head-scratcher because [TS]

01:19:03   like so you're trying to appeal to [TS]

01:19:05   people who know what that game company [TS]

01:19:07   is and understand what a great game [TS]

01:19:09   journey was but those people don't take [TS]

01:19:12   Apple TV seriously as a gaming platform [TS]

01:19:13   because nobody thinks Apple TV seriously [TS]

01:19:16   is a gaming platform but that's the only [TS]

01:19:19   announcement you're gonna make and the [TS]

01:19:21   question I have about this announcement [TS]

01:19:22   an Apple TV in gaming is like what's [TS]

01:19:25   going on Apple you are you serious or is [TS]

01:19:28   this just like another is this your [TS]

01:19:30   carpool karaoke [TS]

01:19:31   of gaming like you try to do the carpool [TS]

01:19:35   karaoke was popular right people like [TS]

01:19:37   that will try that like or is this your [TS]

01:19:40   I'm spending two billion dollars in [TS]

01:19:42   hiring all the showrunners from you know [TS]

01:19:44   fancy shows and that are successful in [TS]

01:19:48   other networks like it seems like I [TS]

01:19:50   would say that Apple still is not [TS]

01:19:52   serious about gaming doesn't understand [TS]

01:19:54   what it takes to be a player in the [TS]

01:19:55   gaming industry but on the other hand [TS]

01:19:56   wanted to have something nice to say [TS]

01:19:58   about gaming or maybe like their close [TS]

01:20:00   personal friends with Jenova Chen I [TS]

01:20:02   don't even know but it's a mysterious [TS]

01:20:04   announcement for me I'm assuming sky [TS]

01:20:06   will be a timed exclusive and not only [TS]

01:20:09   exclusive an Apple TV because come on no [TS]

01:20:11   one's like who's gonna who's gonna buy [TS]

01:20:13   an Apple TV to play sky some [TS]

01:20:16   artsy-fartsy gaming nerds how many [TS]

01:20:19   copies of sky are they're gonna sell if [TS]

01:20:21   it literally was exclusive to iOS and [TS]

01:20:24   Apple TV who knows maybe they'll sell [TS]

01:20:25   tons of them but I don't think Mario run [TS]

01:20:28   has way more written name recognition [TS]

01:20:29   than a game that no one's heard of from [TS]

01:20:32   a game developer there's no one hurt no [TS]

01:20:33   one's heard of and even merrier run [TS]

01:20:35   yeah it made a lot of money but Zelda [TS]

01:20:37   made more you know it's selling a bunch [TS]

01:20:39   of switches made more hell did NES [TS]

01:20:41   classic and SNES classic probably made [TS]

01:20:43   more so I don't know like I would not [TS]

01:20:48   have predicted this and and it's still [TS]

01:20:51   mysterious to me and I don't know if I'm [TS]

01:20:52   being like biased against Apple thing [TS]

01:20:55   though Apple never understands game is [TS]

01:20:57   like what do they have to do to prove to [TS]

01:20:58   you understand they have to prove that [TS]

01:20:59   they understand games they have to prove [TS]

01:21:01   that like do they know what it takes to [TS]

01:21:03   make things that people want to play [TS]

01:21:05   games on and the Apple TV it's not a [TS]

01:21:07   thing that people want to play games on [TS]

01:21:09   now a place guy on my Apple TV if that's [TS]

01:21:11   the only place I get it but I would much [TS]

01:21:12   rather play it on my playstation I would [TS]

01:21:15   rather play it on my Mac Mac's you can't [TS]

01:21:17   play games on those right Apple as far [TS]

01:21:19   as Apple's concerned you can I don't [TS]

01:21:22   know so I find that people asking what I [TS]

01:21:24   thought if I said like journey so much I [TS]

01:21:25   find it interesting but also very [TS]

01:21:27   frustrating and I continue to give Apple [TS]

01:21:30   the frowny face when it comes to gaming [TS]

01:21:31   on Apple TV in America that matter [TS]

01:21:33   because comp come on like you know valve [TS]

01:21:36   was nice enough to make steam on the Mac [TS]

01:21:37   ship with good GPUs support OpenGL [TS]

01:21:40   better let us play games on the Mac but [TS]

01:21:42   anyway that's that's all I have to say [TS]

01:21:44   about this that's all [TS]

01:21:45   oh that's all I tried to make it short [TS]

01:21:50   because I have deep feelings about it [TS]

01:21:51   but that's the short as I can make it oh [TS]

01:21:53   and I wanted to hear are you two going [TS]

01:21:55   to you're a good examples of people who [TS]

01:21:58   don't give a damn about that game [TS]

01:21:59   company and don't really care about [TS]

01:22:00   journey and you know which game come [TS]

01:22:02   didn't know yeah [TS]

01:22:04   didn't know the name sky until it was [TS]

01:22:06   announced on stage despite the fact that [TS]

01:22:07   they spent years working on this game or [TS]

01:22:10   I don't remember [TS]

01:22:10   again the name was out but everything [TS]

01:22:11   about the game had been discussed for a [TS]

01:22:13   long time because in gaming circles but [TS]

01:22:15   are you going to buy this game on your [TS]

01:22:17   Apple TV if you didn't already have a [TS]

01:22:19   believes would you buy one to play this [TS]

01:22:20   game John I don't even have time to play [TS]

01:22:23   the switch and you think I'm gonna buy a [TS]

01:22:24   game for the Apple TV so you're not [TS]

01:22:27   gonna buy this it's like absolutely not [TS]

01:22:30   you did by journey though didn't you [TS]

01:22:32   yeah yes I did and I borrowed a [TS]

01:22:36   PlayStation to play it but and I'm glad [TS]

01:22:38   I did don't get me wrong it was a great [TS]

01:22:39   game but mabye and play this game as if [TS]

01:22:43   I get browbeat into it from you which is [TS]

01:22:45   quite possible and it's really do I want [TS]

01:22:49   anyone playing games with like an Apple [TS]

01:22:50   TV remote am I gonna make you buy a [TS]

01:22:52   controller jail yeah that's never gonna [TS]

01:22:54   happen I guess any one of mine I [TS]

01:22:55   probably never use them again so I guess [TS]

01:22:59   that means same story for you then I had [TS]

01:23:01   so when I saw Apple TV gaming sky in the [TS]

01:23:05   shownotes document I had forgotten what [TS]

01:23:08   that even was so impactful announcement [TS]

01:23:11   yeah [TS]

01:23:12   I'm not a huge game nerd or even gamer [TS]

01:23:16   at all [TS]

01:23:17   I am currently very much enjoying [TS]

01:23:19   stardew valley but I I tend to really [TS]

01:23:21   enjoy like one game a year maybe and [TS]

01:23:24   then that's it so I really would not [TS]

01:23:27   still call myself a gamer it I'm sure [TS]

01:23:30   it's going to be interesting to gamers [TS]

01:23:33   if you come on here and tell me like you [TS]

01:23:36   have to play this game I'll play it I'll [TS]

01:23:38   buy it I'll play it whatever but that [TS]

01:23:41   would be the only reason I would do it [TS]

01:23:42   the Apple TV as much as I wanted it to [TS]

01:23:46   be a gaming platform when the fourth gen [TS]

01:23:48   came out and when the App Store for it [TS]

01:23:50   launched and everything it just hasn't [TS]

01:23:52   panned out and Apple has done pretty [TS]

01:23:55   much nothing to help that and you know [TS]

01:23:57   they still they modified the rules so [TS]

01:24:00   the games now can at least require a [TS]

01:24:02   controller if it just is not going to [TS]

01:24:04   work with the Siri remote but you know [TS]

01:24:07   that it there are so many reasons why [TS]

01:24:09   people don't even think of the Apple TV [TS]

01:24:12   as a gaming platform and if you're gonna [TS]

01:24:14   have to go out and spend 50 bucks on a [TS]

01:24:16   controller to make it [TS]

01:24:18   no one's gonna do that so the the fact [TS]

01:24:21   is no matter how hard Apple tries to [TS]

01:24:23   make it a gaming platform which honestly [TS]

01:24:25   doesn't seem like the try that hard but [TS]

01:24:27   if they are trying it's probably futile [TS]

01:24:30   until it comes with a type of remote [TS]

01:24:33   that can be used as a controller [TS]

01:24:35   reasonably well in the box and I don't [TS]

01:24:39   think it's ever going to happen so as [TS]

01:24:40   long as that's not gonna be the case [TS]

01:24:42   like no one's gonna go out there and buy [TS]

01:24:43   an extra controller for 50 bucks just to [TS]

01:24:46   play the very small handful of decent [TS]

01:24:49   games that are available for the Apple [TS]

01:24:51   TV [TS]

01:24:51   so Apple has actually done a bunch of [TS]

01:24:53   stuff in service of gaming which is the [TS]

01:24:56   mysterious thing like all the stuff [TS]

01:24:58   they're doing with metal and all their [TS]

01:25:00   WEC sessions and all their sort of [TS]

01:25:02   toolkits for making sprite based in 3d [TS]

01:25:05   games like they're doing a lot of work [TS]

01:25:07   and it's like they don't it's like they [TS]

01:25:08   don't understand how games are made in [TS]

01:25:09   the rest of the industry like nobody's [TS]

01:25:11   gonna use all they're pretty impressive [TS]

01:25:14   proprietary frameworks and stuff to make [TS]

01:25:18   really good performing games on Apple TV [TS]

01:25:21   anyway maybe on iOS they're motivated [TS]

01:25:23   because you can sell a lot of games if [TS]

01:25:24   you get the right one in iOS but an [TS]

01:25:25   Apple TV like the only thing they're [TS]

01:25:28   gonna do is like the best thing they've [TS]

01:25:30   done is say okay well we made sure that [TS]

01:25:32   unity has support for metal and all [TS]

01:25:34   those other stuff like that the various [TS]

01:25:35   game engines and the Unreal Engine and [TS]

01:25:36   all that stuff have reasonable support [TS]

01:25:39   for the underlying frameworks but [TS]

01:25:40   they're putting money into it and it's [TS]

01:25:42   like is it it's hard to tell is it like [TS]

01:25:45   oh this is mostly just for phone games [TS]

01:25:47   because people make a lot of money on [TS]

01:25:48   phone games and by the way it happens to [TS]

01:25:50   also benefit Apple TV because if you're [TS]

01:25:52   trying to if you're trying to compete in [TS]

01:25:55   the games market you have to you have to [TS]

01:25:58   do what the other companies do have [TS]

01:25:59   gaming platforms you have to court [TS]

01:26:01   talent and develop talent and get people [TS]

01:26:04   to make games for your system and make [TS]

01:26:05   sure that multi-platform games are [TS]

01:26:07   available on your system unless your [TS]

01:26:08   name is in tendo which and you have tons [TS]

01:26:09   of first party properties that can [TS]

01:26:11   apparently keep your company alive [TS]

01:26:11   forever despite not doing a good job [TS]

01:26:14   courting third-party success because you [TS]

01:26:15   keep making less powerful hardware but [TS]

01:26:17   anyway you have to do you have to put in [TS]

01:26:19   a lot of work it's kind of like what [TS]

01:26:21   they're doing with TV you have to hire [TS]

01:26:22   the right people and they have to go get [TS]

01:26:24   the actors and the stories and like it [TS]

01:26:26   is a lot of work to compete in the [TS]

01:26:28   gaming industry you can't just say [TS]

01:26:29   here's the hardware and we [TS]

01:26:31   you know gave some money to Jenova Chen [TS]

01:26:33   so here's one cool game and like if you [TS]

01:26:35   build it they won't come you have to go [TS]

01:26:38   get them you have to do all the things [TS]

01:26:40   that Sony and Microsoft do and Nintendo [TS]

01:26:43   even you know it to some degree [TS]

01:26:44   do in this market or you know if you [TS]

01:26:47   want to be like Nintendo make a bunch of [TS]

01:26:48   amazing first party games that just [TS]

01:26:50   system sellers on their own and but and [TS]

01:26:53   they don't have the back catalogue for [TS]

01:26:55   that anyway so it's frustrating to me [TS]

01:26:58   because every time I see all the gaming [TS]

01:27:00   sessions WABC I'm impressed by what I [TS]

01:27:02   see but I can't map that to like Apple [TS]

01:27:06   TV gaming it's all even though that they [TS]

01:27:08   talk about it and they put a powerful [TS]

01:27:10   GPU and the Apple TV and they say it's a [TS]

01:27:12   platform for gaming it just it just [TS]

01:27:16   seems like a way for you to make phone [TS]

01:27:17   games which is fine that's the one area [TS]

01:27:20   where they have a little display even [TS]

01:27:21   phone games use third-party engines for [TS]

01:27:23   a lot of stuff but Apple TV it just [TS]

01:27:25   doesn't seem to be going anywhere which [TS]

01:27:26   is I don't know it's almost I wish they [TS]

01:27:29   would just like not keep making these [TS]

01:27:32   sort of half-hearted efforts and instead [TS]

01:27:34   just admit that Apple TV is in a gaming [TS]

01:27:37   platform now all that said well before [TS]

01:27:38   we finally this topic one thing I will [TS]

01:27:40   suggest is that flour which is an older [TS]

01:27:42   game made by that game company is [TS]

01:27:46   actually a really good fit for iOS and [TS]

01:27:48   for Apple TV because it's entirely [TS]

01:27:50   motion controlled I'm assuming it is it [TS]

01:27:52   is in the PlayStation so even with the [TS]

01:27:55   Apple TV remote you don't have to touch [TS]

01:27:57   any buttons you just tilt the remote [TS]

01:27:59   forward and back inside I don't know I [TS]

01:28:01   haven't actually tried it with the Apple [TS]

01:28:03   TV remote but I'm saying if anything is [TS]

01:28:04   gonna be reasonably playable with that [TS]

01:28:06   terrible remote or just on a phone or [TS]

01:28:08   something an entirely motion control [TS]

01:28:10   game is and flour is fine it's cute it's [TS]

01:28:12   nice game if you're not really into [TS]

01:28:15   games and just want something pretty to [TS]

01:28:17   look at and the fun activity that [TS]

01:28:19   actually does build to something towards [TS]

01:28:20   the end if you play through the whole [TS]

01:28:21   game I would recommend downloading the [TS]

01:28:23   port of flower it is actually a good fit [TS]

01:28:27   for all of Apple's platforms unlike so [TS]

01:28:30   many other games that just don't work [TS]

01:28:32   without a controller like Margot said [TS]

01:28:34   it's all play sky and tell you how it is [TS]

01:28:38   all right thanks this week Squarespace [TS]

01:28:41   audible and fracture we'll see you next [TS]

01:28:44   week now the show is over [TS]

01:28:56   [Music] [TS]

01:29:07   [Music] [TS]

01:29:18   [Music] [TS]

01:29:20   ey L is s so that's Casey less and a are [TS]

01:29:24   Co AR m auntie Marco Arment [TS]

01:29:29   [Music] [TS]

01:29:38   [Music] [TS]

01:29:47   looking at the expensive Volvo yeah I [TS]

01:29:51   knew it was the thing but I'd never [TS]

01:29:52   really read that much into it [TS]

01:29:54   SUV so who cares sometimes you want [TS]

01:29:58   sometimes John you want space [TS]

01:30:01   if only there is a way to get space [TS]

01:30:03   without making it really tall [TS]

01:30:05   yeah and how you gonna do that Marco a [TS]

01:30:07   large sedan a hatchback a wagon a [TS]

01:30:10   crossover a minivan it's all sorts of [TS]

01:30:15   ways to do that no crossovers minivan is [TS]

01:30:17   acceptable answer hatchback is not [TS]

01:30:19   crossover is not enough room in a [TS]

01:30:22   rolls-royce you need to make the entire [TS]

01:30:23   vehicle 20 feet high but no the problem [TS]

01:30:27   is you okay I was sure John I'll buy the [TS]

01:30:30   $300,000 rolls-royce just to avoid the [TS]

01:30:32   $50,000 lifted car Mercedes s-class like [TS]

01:30:36   it's not like you need to make an SUV to [TS]

01:30:39   have room in a car yeah have you seen a [TS]

01:30:41   mature Anders in my car we don't like [TS]

01:30:43   SUVs and in Casey you don't like SUVs [TS]

01:30:45   either but you have one now so you feel [TS]

01:30:47   compelled to defend the form there so [TS]

01:30:51   there's some modicum of that that is [TS]

01:30:53   true without question however I really [TS]

01:30:56   like Aaron's car a lot I really honestly [TS]

01:30:58   do it's like you just like nice cars but [TS]

01:31:00   you know well that's true it was a nice [TS]

01:31:02   sedan you would like it a lot too yes [TS]

01:31:05   and I and I have sat in a stationary at [TS]

01:31:08   what the hell's are called s90 basically [TS]

01:31:11   her car but low and it it's it's eerie [TS]

01:31:14   because it feels on the inside exactly [TS]

01:31:17   the same until you look you know past [TS]

01:31:19   the second row because obviously Erin's [TS]

01:31:21   cars third row but anyway in so many [TS]

01:31:24   ways it feels the same like the same [TS]

01:31:25   infotainment same cushiness etc etc the [TS]

01:31:29   cars like 300 feet long but I don't know [TS]

01:31:32   it just feels wonky to me when it's that [TS]

01:31:34   low I think because I was exposed to the [TS]

01:31:37   xc90 as a SUV although it's funny [TS]

01:31:40   because to kind of parlay this into [TS]

01:31:42   something that's not the right we're [TS]

01:31:43   used to the word but whatever to turn [TS]

01:31:45   this into something to pivot into [TS]

01:31:47   something else [TS]

01:31:48   the I am taking the BMW in in a couple [TS]

01:31:51   of weeks for state inspection for an [TS]

01:31:53   airbag recall maybe if they actually [TS]

01:31:55   have one in stock [TS]

01:31:57   and I had to put a little coolant in the [TS]

01:31:59   car what unit of itself is not that [TS]

01:32:01   remarkable but it's a person we've had [TS]

01:32:02   to do it so I asked them so you know hey [TS]

01:32:05   just go ahead and make sure this thing [TS]

01:32:06   isn't about to explode which means [TS]

01:32:08   they're going to find a reason why it's [TS]

01:32:09   about to explode and this will be [TS]

01:32:10   another five thousand dollar bill well [TS]

01:32:12   anyway I bring all this stuff because [TS]

01:32:14   the sales dude called me and said oh I [TS]

01:32:15   see you're bringing your car in in a [TS]

01:32:16   couple weeks [TS]

01:32:17   yes I am would you is there something I [TS]

01:32:19   could do to put you in a new BMW to [TS]

01:32:21   which I just laughed and laughed and [TS]

01:32:23   laughed and laughed someone said to him [TS]

01:32:25   I've put $15,000 in this car in five [TS]

01:32:27   years there's no freaking way I'm buying [TS]

01:32:28   another BMW he probably did believe you [TS]

01:32:31   as much as we do yeah I'm not buying a [TS]

01:32:33   BMW no you're gonna buy something faster [TS]

01:32:37   but worse probably actually to be honest [TS]

01:32:40   that is an extremely accurate assessment [TS]

01:32:43   if I end up with the Golf R because [TS]

01:32:46   everything that you've said that you are [TS]

01:32:48   really wanting is like faster but worse [TS]

01:32:50   you know correct at least that you would [TS]

01:32:53   actually buy like the Quadrifoglio or [TS]

01:32:56   whatever it was maybe that one like [TS]

01:32:58   might that might overall be better [TS]

01:33:00   depending on the transmission severity [TS]

01:33:01   but yeah but you won't you will net you [TS]

01:33:04   would actually buy that one correct so I [TS]

01:33:06   still continue to read all sorts of bad [TS]

01:33:08   stories about reliability for for tests [TS]

01:33:10   fleet cars for like you know car [TS]

01:33:12   magazines and they usually get the good [TS]

01:33:13   ones so I would yeah although I like it [TS]

01:33:16   Marcos most recent mispronunciation [TS]

01:33:19   because it contains fugly in it it's a [TS]

01:33:23   beautiful car it's a beautiful car I [TS]

01:33:26   will I will [TS]

01:33:26   you are wrong John you are wrong is your [TS]

01:33:29   given name John or Jonathan it's John [TS]

01:33:31   isn't it mmm another car sorry it seems [TS]

01:33:35   like it seems like a great car it seems [TS]

01:33:37   like it's unreliable and I do not like [TS]

01:33:39   how it looks [TS]

01:33:40   no I mean first of all you can tell it's [TS]

01:33:42   John instead of Jonathan because there's [TS]

01:33:43   an H and he's Italian there's probably [TS]

01:33:46   somebody out there who spells Jonathan [TS]

01:33:48   with the H but I'm sure it's a very very [TS]

01:33:49   rare and second of all there's no [TS]

01:33:51   there's no Italian Jonathan's they're [TS]

01:33:52   all John's that's true and then second [TS]

01:33:54   of all a third of all whatever a number [TS]

01:33:56   of up to now D I would say that the [TS]

01:33:58   Quadrifoglio is probably significantly [TS]

01:34:03   more attractive than the current [TS]

01:34:04   generation of BMW M cars [TS]

01:34:08   I would say it is more attractive I [TS]

01:34:10   don't know if I would say it's [TS]

01:34:11   considerably more attractive so my [TS]

01:34:14   product communications person from Alfa [TS]

01:34:16   Romeo North America wrote me today we [TS]

01:34:18   all have a God that sounded extremely [TS]

01:34:21   self reflecting what a title my product [TS]

01:34:25   communications found for me of American [TS]

01:34:26   ever writes me at all [TS]

01:34:27   what really so they they talk to you [TS]

01:34:30   about products it's like I want to [TS]

01:34:32   communicate with you about products this [TS]

01:34:36   is not where I wanted this to go and I [TS]

01:34:37   recognize that this is exactly what I [TS]

01:34:39   desire I remember a title it's exactly [TS]

01:34:42   what I did but anyway what do I call him [TS]

01:34:45   a product communication specialist or [TS]

01:34:46   whatever I already forgot to email yeah [TS]

01:34:50   so anyway so I've been bothering him [TS]

01:34:52   constantly because the the people that [TS]

01:34:54   actually have the car don't want to talk [TS]

01:34:56   to me apparently [TS]

01:34:56   but can't believe they're not flying you [TS]

01:34:58   to Europe to try the stick and by the [TS]

01:35:00   way the check points out that you should [TS]

01:35:02   ask them for the SUV since that's what [TS]

01:35:03   you like because they make Oh kindly [TS]

01:35:06   kiss the widest part of my your into [TS]

01:35:09   might seem weird when it's down so low [TS]

01:35:11   might seem weird John I hate you so much [TS]

01:35:14   you know what about well actually you [TS]

01:35:16   know what's worse did I have this [TS]

01:35:17   conversation with you guys on the show I [TS]

01:35:19   don't think I did the worst part of this [TS]

01:35:21   is that I've decided my short list for [TS]

01:35:23   my next car obviously go far would you [TS]

01:35:26   there are two other options I would like [TS]

01:35:28   you to guess either one of you what [TS]

01:35:30   those other two options a Honda Accord [TS]

01:35:32   no no don't look at it it's too slow [TS]

01:35:35   it's too slow no the other option is [TS]

01:35:38   going to be the that that Cadillac [TS]

01:35:41   rectangle thing no good guess but no no [TS]

01:35:45   no no it's automatic only okay all right [TS]

01:35:49   so all three of these cars all three of [TS]

01:35:51   these cars I can get with a stick [TS]

01:35:51   brand-new [TS]

01:35:52   all right so Golf R it's probably not [TS]

01:35:55   the Jeep Grand Cherokee whatever it was [TS]

01:35:56   that you reviewed can't care that was a [TS]

01:35:58   stick yeah [TS]

01:36:00   the hell's I don't know not an Audi I'm [TS]

01:36:07   gonna say since you have SUV envy and [TS]

01:36:09   there aren't that many SUVs available at [TS]

01:36:11   the stick I'm gonna guess maybe a Jeep [TS]

01:36:13   Wrangler because those I think are [TS]

01:36:14   available with stick that is one of the [TS]

01:36:16   three cars yeah that is me I'm not [TS]

01:36:18   kidding by the way I am not kidding that [TS]

01:36:20   is my I am abandoning all pretense of [TS]

01:36:23   luxury [TS]

01:36:24   I am abandoning yet all thoughts of [TS]

01:36:26   speed and comfort and screw it I'm just [TS]

01:36:29   gonna I'm just gonna go the other [TS]

01:36:30   direction when I get a golf cart what [TS]

01:36:32   are you doing John all kidding aside as [TS]

01:36:36   much as I love to beat up on you too [TS]

01:36:38   have you ever been either of you in a [TS]

01:36:40   Jeep Wrangler that does that has the top [TS]

01:36:42   off or down and and does not have doors [TS]

01:36:44   on it I understand that's why that's why [TS]

01:36:46   I said a golf cart it's fun it's fun to [TS]

01:36:48   ride a golf cart do right and does not [TS]

01:36:50   have doors on it that's the key the fact [TS]

01:36:52   that you can just take the doors right [TS]

01:36:53   off is amazing yeah it's great fun you [TS]

01:36:55   know I there has never been a time when [TS]

01:36:58   I've been sitting in a car and thought [TS]

01:36:59   you know this car needs fewer doors like [TS]

01:37:04   you know when I used to work at the [TS]

01:37:06   parks department had a lot of vehicles [TS]

01:37:07   that were basically this they're like [TS]

01:37:09   old trucks or what is it the brand [TS]

01:37:12   Cushman or whatever like thing being [TS]

01:37:14   four by fours that you basically sit on [TS]

01:37:16   kind of it's fun but it's not that's not [TS]

01:37:20   car and if I was Eve you live anywhere [TS]

01:37:21   with whether that's there's no go you [TS]

01:37:24   need if you don't you just you just [TS]

01:37:25   tempting death like why not want to get [TS]

01:37:26   a super bike yeah yeah I'll just get [TS]

01:37:32   myself a what's what's the ridiculous [TS]

01:37:34   one that they always turbocharged how [TS]

01:37:36   god I'm drawing a blank now Hayabusa [TS]

01:37:38   there it is I'll just get a Hayabusa and [TS]

01:37:40   I'll be fine so okay so you got one of [TS]

01:37:41   the three well two of the three actually [TS]

01:37:42   cuz I gave you the Golf R oh man so John [TS]

01:37:45   what do you I mean what else is [TS]

01:37:46   available in the stick mw2 series it's [TS]

01:37:49   not a BMW yeah I it should be it should [TS]

01:37:52   be the two series but it's not mmm I [TS]

01:37:55   need I need more stability makes the a [TS]

01:37:57   for us with sticks there it is there it [TS]

01:37:59   is because you enjoyed your renting of [TS]

01:38:01   the silver one well I did although the [TS]

01:38:04   MMI which is their knockoff I drive used [TS]

01:38:06   to be abysmally bad not as bad as a Jeep [TS]

01:38:10   but really bad but that being said [TS]

01:38:14   they supposedly have a new one and you [TS]

01:38:16   can get the a four with a stick and it [TS]

01:38:19   has all the fancy like you know digital [TS]

01:38:21   dash that I'm sure John hates and it and [TS]

01:38:23   it has car play and I don't hate digital [TS]

01:38:25   dashes oh you mean like you mean the the [TS]

01:38:28   instrument cluster in front of you [TS]

01:38:30   behind the steering wheel right [TS]

01:38:31   correct correct I don't hate that no I'm [TS]

01:38:34   surprised well anyway so it has all that [TS]

01:38:35   jazz see but see I I think I will still [TS]

01:38:38   I will still be correct that you what [TS]

01:38:40   you'll waiting will be faster but worse [TS]

01:38:41   although actually if you get out it [TS]

01:38:43   might not be faster it will not be fit [TS]

01:38:44   well probably not it depends on how how [TS]

01:38:47   well I can drive my car to me like every [TS]

01:38:49   my experience without ease and looking [TS]

01:38:50   at them and test driving them and having [TS]

01:38:52   you know occasional friends that have [TS]

01:38:53   them and stuff it just seems like it's [TS]

01:38:55   like BMW but everything looks a little [TS]

01:38:58   bit better and works a little bit worse [TS]

01:38:59   I my limited experience with Audi I [TS]

01:39:04   would agree with that wholeheartedly the [TS]

01:39:05   outside of them looked pretty good on [TS]

01:39:07   some of them oh yes they're styling it [TS]

01:39:09   looks a little better yeah yeah that's [TS]

01:39:11   what I'm saying [TS]

01:39:11   and I think that's a fair assessment [TS]

01:39:14   Vizio these interior styling people [TS]

01:39:15   usually like to others that you're [TS]

01:39:16   talking about I think either way in or [TS]

01:39:18   out [TS]

01:39:18   yeah I think they're they're a safer bet [TS]

01:39:21   visually should try try the s8 and try [TS]

01:39:26   it and you don't cannot the si at the s4 [TS]

01:39:28   you can get anymore [TS]

01:39:30   yeah how do you makes very few sticks [TS]

01:39:32   you should when your the Honda [TS]

01:39:34   dealership you should also test drive [TS]

01:39:36   the Civic type-r which I know you're not [TS]

01:39:37   gonna get cuz it looks like a matchbox [TS]

01:39:38   car but you just try it anyway I would [TS]

01:39:40   love to actually you're absolutely [TS]

01:39:41   everything you just said is absolutely [TS]

01:39:43   correct and I would I would definitely [TS]

01:39:45   give the new Accord a shot in all snark [TS]

01:39:48   and jokes aside as much as I love to [TS]

01:39:50   give you a hard time about your love of [TS]

01:39:51   Accords I am really impressed by just on [TS]

01:39:55   paper having never seen one in person [TS]

01:39:56   having never driven one I'm really [TS]

01:39:58   impressed by the new Accord and I think [TS]

01:39:59   Honda's finally making smart choices [TS]

01:40:01   which by that I mean choices that make [TS]

01:40:04   KC happy they're making smart choices [TS]

01:40:06   with the new Accord making it available [TS]

01:40:08   with the big motor with a stick etc etc [TS]

01:40:10   the review that I shared with you and I [TS]

01:40:12   don't remember where it was so I'm not [TS]

01:40:14   gonna put it in the show notes that was [TS]

01:40:15   I think it might have been it was not [TS]

01:40:18   terribly flattering but I still stand by [TS]

01:40:20   this is the first time I've looked at an [TS]

01:40:22   accord and thought you know what that's [TS]

01:40:24   a possibility and for everyone saying s3 [TS]

01:40:27   and rs3 and [TS]

01:40:28   chat those are not available with a [TS]

01:40:29   stick in the US unless I'm mistaken in [TS]

01:40:31   either way I'm not really sure what I'm [TS]

01:40:33   gaining over a Golf R I need to break [TS]

01:40:37   myself with a golf thing a Golf R 93 [TS]

01:40:40   Series is you know really minimal gains [TS]

01:40:43   but lots of price increases over the [TS]

01:40:46   high-end golf series like it's really [TS]

01:40:48   because it's just it's just a luxury [TS]

01:40:49   golf that's all it is and it's not like [TS]

01:40:52   I don't feel like you're getting what [TS]

01:40:54   you're paying for necessarily with that [TS]

01:40:56   one aren't you getting a jury generation [TS]

01:40:58   came in [TS]

01:40:59   that's better than all these cars that [TS]

01:41:01   you've described I want something that I [TS]

01:41:03   can hypothetically put two children in [TS]

01:41:07   you have this giant school bus for the [TS]

01:41:09   kids oh you're such a jerk the vehicle [TS]

01:41:12   that can hold like your kids and [TS]

01:41:14   neighbor kids it for you for your car [TS]

01:41:16   just get it use Cayman and it's better [TS]

01:41:18   than all the cars you've listed yeah [TS]

01:41:19   although talk about maintenance I mean [TS]

01:41:23   how much is it Cayman seriously could be [TS]

01:41:26   worth it to BMW I mean before they [TS]

01:41:30   turbocharged it the one that do on the [TS]

01:41:31   jury got that's the generation you want [TS]

01:41:33   I know exactly what you're thinking of [TS]

01:41:35   what what years that I don't know [TS]

01:41:37   Porsche no no just go back through [TS]

01:41:39   Gerry's timeline and see when you [TS]

01:41:45   something before they before they change [TS]

01:41:47   the name to 718 and okay here you go so [TS]

01:41:49   I'm looking on auto trader [TS]

01:41:50   coincidentally just as you're saying [TS]

01:41:51   that model name clarification how [TS]

01:41:54   quickly can you look things up an [TS]

01:41:55   arbitrator fairly quickly is it like a [TS]

01:41:57   dedicated hardware key on your keyboard [TS]

01:41:59   there's immediately launches auto trader [TS]

01:42:01   and I feel like if I was ever to look [TS]

01:42:04   give a serious look at a Porsche Porsche [TS]

01:42:06   however it's not my apology if I were to [TS]

01:42:09   ever give a serious look at that brand [TS]

01:42:10   it would take me like three weeks of [TS]

01:42:13   research to just figure out what the [TS]

01:42:14   hell I'm looking at because there are so [TS]

01:42:16   many little name variations then add or [TS]

01:42:19   subtract 30 grand and wait wait what [TS]

01:42:21   what is that and that's is it that much [TS]

01:42:22   better what does that mean and yeah but [TS]

01:42:25   with the Cayman at this generation like [TS]

01:42:26   even the one with the slow it the cheap [TS]

01:42:28   only the slow engine is still a great [TS]

01:42:30   car yeah like there's no there's nothing [TS]

01:42:32   you know and it's just a question of how [TS]

01:42:33   much do you want to get ripped off for [TS]

01:42:34   the fancy-schmancy one and in fact it [TS]

01:42:37   might be a mistake like oh I [TS]

01:42:38   accidentally got the one with carbon [TS]

01:42:40   ceramic brakes because they're kind of [TS]

01:42:41   an [TS]

01:42:41   in daily use and you're not gonna be on [TS]

01:42:43   a race track and that would be a bad [TS]

01:42:44   move but you can tell because it'll be [TS]

01:42:45   an extra 20 grand in the price [TS]