The Accidental Tech Podcast

242: These Arms Are Coming Off


00:00:00   I I looked at the show notes for this [TS]

00:00:01   week a lot of issues that I really don't [TS]

00:00:03   care about cool though uh I might not [TS]

00:00:06   have a lot to say this week well you can [TS]

00:00:08   adjust it to be things you do care about [TS]

00:00:09   the thing is the thing that that's in [TS]

00:00:12   the show notes that I think that I don't [TS]

00:00:15   care about the way that I expect to talk [TS]

00:00:17   that we'll be talking about for a while [TS]

00:00:18   is the echo and the thing with the echo [TS]

00:00:20   is that I'm the one that doesn't care [TS]

00:00:22   about it it's not like the world doesn't [TS]

00:00:24   care about it you know what I mean like [TS]

00:00:25   nobody cares about the Mac Pro except [TS]

00:00:27   you two numbskulls [TS]

00:00:28   but everyone cares about the about the [TS]

00:00:33   echo so it's not one of those things [TS]

00:00:35   like that like the Mac Pro that I that I [TS]

00:00:36   would at least attempt you know to [TS]

00:00:40   railroad you two and change the subject [TS]

00:00:42   this one I know is worth talking about I [TS]

00:00:44   just don't have anything to say I mean [TS]

00:00:45   if it make you more interested we could [TS]

00:00:47   talk about the new Google rectangles of [TS]

00:00:49   whatever they launched uh yeah you know [TS]

00:00:51   we should maybe make passing mention of [TS]

00:00:54   that in fact I guess we can do it now [TS]

00:00:55   because some new phones and laptops no [TS]

00:01:00   one's gonna buy I didn't know about the [TS]

00:01:02   laptops but I knew about the phones it [TS]

00:01:04   was it's a Chromebook that no one's [TS]

00:01:05   gonna buy because it's way too expensive [TS]

00:01:06   just like their previous pixel book or [TS]

00:01:08   whatever it was yeah so they also [TS]

00:01:10   announced the pixel to I believe it is [TS]

00:01:12   which is their rough equivalent I would [TS]

00:01:15   say more equivalent to the iPhone eight [TS]

00:01:17   than the iPhone ten uh what is the [TS]

00:01:19   officially ATP stance on ten versus X [TS]

00:01:21   are we are we ignoring the official [TS]

00:01:24   ruling I'm assuming John I don't know [TS]

00:01:26   why people are rebelling against us just [TS]

00:01:28   say ten I don't like I did it for like [TS]

00:01:29   decade and a half with Mac OS ten [TS]

00:01:31   somehow now we've just lost that ability [TS]

00:01:33   I'm gonna try really hard to just avoid [TS]

00:01:37   saying it for a while because I don't I [TS]

00:01:39   do not like that was called ten I really [TS]

00:01:40   I really think it should have been [TS]

00:01:42   called X if they were going to spell it [TS]

00:01:43   like that and there are so many better [TS]

00:01:45   reasons to call it X and the fact is the [TS]

00:01:47   entire world is going to call it X like [TS]

00:01:51   either you could go into an Apple store [TS]

00:01:53   and ask people about this thing and not [TS]

00:01:55   a single person there including the [TS]

00:01:57   staff would say ten everybody calls it X [TS]

00:02:01   so it's gonna be like this pedantic [TS]

00:02:03   thing that Apple nerds are gonna be [TS]

00:02:05   battling for the next year or more [TS]

00:02:07   depending on how long this name is [TS]

00:02:09   relevant and we're just going to be [TS]

00:02:12   sitting is like it's ten [TS]

00:02:13   don't you know it's done it like no no [TS]

00:02:15   one knows everyone's going to say X like [TS]

00:02:17   we we are we will we probably already [TS]

00:02:20   have lost this battle on such a [TS]

00:02:23   massively bigger scale than we ever were [TS]

00:02:26   even trying to battle on Mac OS X or 10 [TS]

00:02:29   and the fact is most people didn't ever [TS]

00:02:32   really have to say OS 10 you know but [TS]

00:02:36   everyone says the name of the iPhone and [TS]

00:02:38   a lot more people have them than I've [TS]

00:02:40   ever had Mac's so it's I think it would [TS]

00:02:44   you know calling it the 10 was a bad [TS]

00:02:48   move and also they're going to lose you [TS]

00:02:50   know the public perception of this name [TS]

00:02:52   if they haven't already [TS]

00:02:54   so reguarly I don't think we're ever [TS]

00:02:57   gonna convince John to have the show [TS]

00:02:59   have an official position other than 10 [TS]

00:03:01   however I will file a dissenting opinion [TS]

00:03:03   that I believe it should be called X and [TS]

00:03:08   I might occasionally call it X because [TS]

00:03:10   that's what I called in my head and I'll [TS]

00:03:12   try to say 10 around you guys just like [TS]

00:03:15   you know I appreciate when people try to [TS]

00:03:17   say on line instead of in line in front [TS]

00:03:20   of New Yorkers but I don't think I'm [TS]

00:03:23   gonna be able to do it I'm going to slip [TS]

00:03:25   up and we're gonna have to be ok with [TS]

00:03:26   that because the entire world is going [TS]

00:03:29   to call it iPhone X I don't see how this [TS]

00:03:31   is any different than Mac OS 10 except a [TS]

00:03:33   rest scale the whole world called it X [TS]

00:03:35   for the Mac OS 2 but that didn't stop [TS]

00:03:37   everyone who knows the difference in the [TS]

00:03:40   Mac community from saying 10 I think [TS]

00:03:41   should be same way of course a slip-up [TS]

00:03:43   every once in a while but like to take a [TS]

00:03:45   contrary stance and to purposely say X [TS]

00:03:46   instead that's silly and all the reasons [TS]

00:03:49   everyone else is going to say X instead [TS]

00:03:51   of 10 don't apply to us because we know [TS]

00:03:52   how it's said well but it's a little [TS]

00:03:54   different to because like it's when you [TS]

00:03:57   like almost no one ever has to give the [TS]

00:03:59   full name of the OS of their computer [TS]

00:04:01   that they have we're at like but if [TS]

00:04:03   there can if they were all called power [TS]

00:04:04   bucks and like people would always say [TS]

00:04:08   power book and we'd be like you know its [TS]

00:04:11   power book like that that would be way [TS]

00:04:13   more ridiculous seeming you don't have [TS]

00:04:15   to correct people though like just [TS]

00:04:17   because you say 10 doesn't mean you have [TS]

00:04:19   to be the person who corrects other [TS]

00:04:20   people right just oh we're just talking [TS]

00:04:22   about is what will you say or try to say [TS]

00:04:24   because obviously you slip up in sex [TS]

00:04:25   whatever [TS]

00:04:26   right that's it it doesn't mean when [TS]

00:04:28   people say X you're gonna correct them [TS]

00:04:30   or be obnoxious about it or whatever but [TS]

00:04:32   it's just what about what we're gonna [TS]

00:04:35   say and again I don't think this is we [TS]

00:04:36   didn't have this discussion about Mac OS [TS]

00:04:37   10 I heard who's gonna say X no we just [TS]

00:04:40   we just salsa 10 and if you messed up [TS]

00:04:42   and said X oh well but it has nothing to [TS]

00:04:45   do with what other people say or whether [TS]

00:04:46   you should correct them so I don't think [TS]

00:04:48   there's a debate to be well but but Mac [TS]

00:04:50   OS is not Mac OS is a terrible analogy [TS]

00:04:53   for a couple of reasons number one it [TS]

00:04:56   was established before most people came [TS]

00:04:58   to the Mac and yes I know John he's been [TS]

00:04:59   using the Mac since 1912 bla bla but for [TS]

00:05:02   like Marco and I we came to the Mac when [TS]

00:05:05   it was already clearly established and a [TS]

00:05:07   couple versions in two OS 10 so there [TS]

00:05:09   this train had already left the station [TS]

00:05:11   but it was clearly established everyone [TS]

00:05:13   said X the only people who said 10 was [TS]

00:05:15   like Apple nerds it's a no said X [TS]

00:05:18   because it was like it was literally [TS]

00:05:19   never said there's nothing like you know [TS]

00:05:21   it's like the like the the 10 [TS]

00:05:23   commercials they just show the text they [TS]

00:05:26   don't really have announced they're [TS]

00:05:27   talking about it so it's the same [TS]

00:05:29   situation anyway it'll be fine like just [TS]

00:05:30   just say 10 you'll be fine [TS]

00:05:32   well the other thing is like if you were [TS]

00:05:33   communicating to somebody who thought [TS]

00:05:35   that it was X if you say Mac OS 10 I [TS]

00:05:39   think they can figure that out pretty [TS]

00:05:40   easily if you say iPhone 10 to a person [TS]

00:05:44   who thinks it's iPhone X they're not [TS]

00:05:47   going to know what you're talking about [TS]

00:05:48   that'll be fine it's like gift jiff [TS]

00:05:50   they'll figure it out I don't even start [TS]

00:05:53   with that and like gif gif I feel like [TS]

00:05:55   if you surrender to the other person's [TS]

00:05:57   incorrect pronunciation that is you lose [TS]

00:05:59   right so just you say it the right way [TS]

00:06:01   and eventually they'll bend to your will [TS]

00:06:02   yeah in a conversation it will I get in [TS]

00:06:06   a gif gif conversation the first person [TS]

00:06:08   to give and to use the other person's [TS]

00:06:09   pronunciation loses I see what you're [TS]

00:06:14   saying there but the other thing the [TS]

00:06:16   other thing I was gonna say earlier you [TS]

00:06:17   know other than then OS 10 having [TS]

00:06:19   already been established by the time [TS]

00:06:20   mark when I got there is that nobody [TS]

00:06:21   really gives a crap about Mac OS I do [TS]

00:06:23   you to do but nobody in the grand scheme [TS]

00:06:26   of things gives crap about Mac OS [TS]

00:06:27   whereas there are many many many many [TS]

00:06:30   people who give a crap and many more [TS]

00:06:32   people who give a crap about iPhones a [TS]

00:06:34   crap about iPhone names believe me [TS]

00:06:37   5c 5s success success [TS]

00:06:40   only we know those names that people [TS]

00:06:41   want to do they buy those phones it's [TS]

00:06:43   like whatever I got the plus do you have [TS]

00:06:45   the plus no everyone knows which iPhone [TS]

00:06:47   they have they all know that believe [TS]

00:06:50   don't know about that people knows like [TS]

00:06:52   oh I have I have a successor like people [TS]

00:06:54   know that I don't think they do they all [TS]

00:06:58   look the same you know anyway it'll be [TS]

00:07:01   fine just we'll just we should set an [TS]

00:07:03   example for everybody else by saying ten [TS]

00:07:06   I do not agree so anyway so so Google [TS]

00:07:10   released the pixel to in pixels who [TS]

00:07:12   Excel let me start by saying that I did [TS]

00:07:16   not watch any of the keynote because I [TS]

00:07:17   was in meetings and I all I knew was [TS]

00:07:21   that this this thing happened and you [TS]

00:07:24   know most of my co-workers that are [TS]

00:07:26   local in my office are all Android users [TS]

00:07:29   the co-workers on the mobile team and so [TS]

00:07:32   I get a lot of like the the bleed from [TS]

00:07:37   them being enthusiastic right like that [TS]

00:07:39   you know just because they're [TS]

00:07:39   enthusiastic I'm interested in what's [TS]

00:07:41   going on and so you know I asked one of [TS]

00:07:44   them you know what's the executive [TS]

00:07:45   summary and they actually linked me to [TS]

00:07:46   the verge which I am NOT the biggest [TS]

00:07:48   verge fan but it's a pretty good [TS]

00:07:49   executive summary of what what's going [TS]

00:07:51   on here and I'll talk about in a minute [TS]

00:07:53   but what was most fascinating and [TS]

00:07:55   frustrating to me was that one of my [TS]

00:07:58   co-workers one of the QA guys he's he's [TS]

00:08:02   the iOS QA person but his personal phone [TS]

00:08:04   is an Android phone and he sent me a [TS]

00:08:06   screenshot of his reservation or order [TS]

00:08:10   or whatever it was for his brand new [TS]

00:08:12   pixel - he sent this to me like ten [TS]

00:08:15   minutes after the keynote imagine that [TS]

00:08:17   gentleman imagined moments after the [TS]

00:08:20   keynote you could go to a company that [TS]

00:08:22   actually understands that the Internet [TS]

00:08:23   is a thing and you could order your [TS]

00:08:25   device right then and there in the [TS]

00:08:27   middle of the day like an adult instead [TS]

00:08:30   of having to wake up like a friggin [TS]

00:08:32   animal at 3:00 in the morning just throw [TS]

00:08:34   money at Apple because we're idiots that [TS]

00:08:36   just need it pulsing through our veins [TS]

00:08:38   it made me so angry when I found out [TS]

00:08:40   that he could just order right then and [TS]

00:08:42   there like it was nothing oh well I mean [TS]

00:08:45   no grumpy in all fairness a nobody [TS]

00:08:47   comparably buys these things or wants [TS]

00:08:50   them and be [TS]

00:08:51   at Google screws have lots of other [TS]

00:08:53   stuff about selling phones correctly [TS]

00:08:55   things like support returns [TS]

00:08:57   there's no retail angle really I mean [TS]

00:09:00   there's all silly apples way ahead of [TS]

00:09:03   Google when it comes to the business of [TS]

00:09:05   selling people phones and then [TS]

00:09:06   supporting them by so many miles that [TS]

00:09:09   it's comical to even compare them but [TS]

00:09:11   yeah I mean really what this really [TS]

00:09:13   comes down to ultimately is that they [TS]

00:09:15   can open their pre-orders for this thing [TS]

00:09:16   immediately and sell it you know I start [TS]

00:09:18   song immediately because the the numbers [TS]

00:09:20   are so much dramatically smaller than [TS]

00:09:23   what Apple sells and so comparably few [TS]

00:09:26   people are even paying attention let [TS]

00:09:28   alone ordering these things and using [TS]

00:09:30   them and owning them that it's it's a [TS]

00:09:33   totally different game you know who's [TS]

00:09:34   paying attention I'm paying attention to [TS]

00:09:36   the fact that you tried to skip follow [TS]

00:09:37   up and ask in a pre-show yeah you send [TS]

00:09:48   me links to these things so Google for [TS]

00:09:49   them and just I don't see what you're [TS]

00:09:51   talking about all right I will put a [TS]

00:09:52   link in the show notes in the chat in [TS]

00:09:54   the robot it will be everywhere but the [TS]

00:09:57   reason that this ran all ran long was [TS]

00:09:59   because we got talking about names and [TS]

00:10:01   how stupid iPhone 10 is and then we're [TS]

00:10:04   getting sidetracked with me moaning [TS]

00:10:05   about having to wake up at 3 in the [TS]

00:10:06   morning to spend an absurd amount of [TS]

00:10:08   money that I should be so lucky as to [TS]

00:10:09   have on a phone that I don't need so [TS]

00:10:11   moving on from first world problems from [TS]

00:10:16   my first world problems the most [TS]

00:10:18   fascinating thing to me well there's a [TS]

00:10:19   couple interesting things to me about [TS]

00:10:21   these pixel 2 devices one is the [TS]

00:10:24   aesthetic look of them so if you go to [TS]

00:10:26   the verge post and you know they have [TS]

00:10:27   this tremendous video right up front and [TS]

00:10:29   then you scroll down a little bit and [TS]

00:10:31   you see these phones and in a lot of [TS]

00:10:34   ways they remind me of like older [TS]

00:10:36   iPhones when you look at the top half [TS]

00:10:38   and I can't really put my finger on why [TS]

00:10:40   I guess it's because it's you know more [TS]

00:10:42   rectangular I guess but then as you [TS]

00:10:45   scroll down the page maybe is just cuz [TS]

00:10:47   my window is smaller but anyway as I [TS]

00:10:48   scroll down I see the bottom of the [TS]

00:10:49   phone I realize is it upside down [TS]

00:10:52   because the top and bottom look exactly [TS]

00:10:54   the same that's a little bit peculiar to [TS]

00:10:57   me now in the defense of this phone I [TS]

00:10:59   believe you know both of these are [TS]

00:11:01   certainly speakers and having like the [TS]

00:11:03   stereo speakers that are pointed at you [TS]

00:11:05   rather than having the bottom speaker [TS]

00:11:07   pointed down and the top speaker pointed [TS]

00:11:09   at your face that's kind of cool [TS]

00:11:11   but aesthetically this looks odd to me [TS]

00:11:14   you go squeeze it to get Google [TS]

00:11:16   assistant yes that's right I forgot [TS]

00:11:18   about that that's a good point I [TS]

00:11:19   wouldn't have brought that up and so I'm [TS]

00:11:20   glad you reminded me but yeah what do [TS]

00:11:22   they call it they had some truly [TS]

00:11:23   terrible marketing name for it like [TS]

00:11:25   active something or something like that [TS]

00:11:27   active squeeze squeeze active edge [TS]

00:11:30   squeezable sides there you go that's [TS]

00:11:34   awful active edge how truly terrible is [TS]

00:11:37   that that's even worse than Apple's [TS]

00:11:39   modern like undiscoverable gestures [TS]

00:11:41   that's that's like what do you think is [TS]

00:11:45   worse like squeeze for assistant or [TS]

00:11:46   shake to undo I don't know it's tough [TS]

00:11:48   call but the thing that was most [TS]

00:11:50   interesting to me about this was the way [TS]

00:11:53   they're doing portrait mode and I mean [TS]

00:11:56   this genuinely I'm not I'm not trying to [TS]

00:11:57   snark the way they're doing portrait [TS]

00:12:00   mode is and I'm probably gonna get the [TS]

00:12:03   details slightly wrong but in the the [TS]

00:12:05   single rear lens they don't do a - lens [TS]

00:12:08   setup like like Apple does or 16 lens [TS]

00:12:11   setup like our friends at light do but [TS]

00:12:13   they do a single lens but what's [TS]

00:12:14   interesting is each of the pixels in the [TS]

00:12:17   sensor is apparently two different [TS]

00:12:20   pixels and I know that doesn't make [TS]

00:12:22   sense and that's the best I can do to [TS]

00:12:25   explain it without really going into [TS]

00:12:26   nuance but suffice to say they've [TS]

00:12:29   effectively got a two line system or [TS]

00:12:32   really I guess I should say a two sensor [TS]

00:12:34   system because the actual single sensor [TS]

00:12:38   does a two-for-one its i guess it's a [TS]

00:12:41   closeout sale anyway it has it is two [TS]

00:12:46   pixels forever [TS]

00:12:48   we're I guess one pixels worth of data [TS]

00:12:50   if that makes any sense at all so what [TS]

00:12:52   they do is they kind of have the the two [TS]

00:12:54   I'm saying lens and I don't mean that I [TS]

00:12:56   guess literally they have a similar set [TS]

00:12:58   up to the two line system that Apple has [TS]

00:13:00   but they have it with only one lens and [TS]

00:13:03   then they used you know machine learning [TS]

00:13:05   which is Google's favorite thing and you [TS]

00:13:06   know what I don't blame them because [TS]

00:13:07   they actually can do it pretty well they [TS]

00:13:09   use machine learning to kind of [TS]

00:13:11   extrapolate and interpret what these two [TS]

00:13:14   pixels are seeing in order to get their [TS]

00:13:16   own portrait mode which coincidentally [TS]

00:13:18   they've littered [TS]

00:13:19   called portrait mode I just thought that [TS]

00:13:23   was kind of cool on a client a clever [TS]

00:13:24   approach because having the two lenses [TS]

00:13:27   on the back I mean I don't it doesn't [TS]

00:13:28   offend me but I don't think it looks [TS]

00:13:31   particularly great especially with the [TS]

00:13:33   camera bump which this does not have I'm [TS]

00:13:36   sorry it does have a kid no you're right [TS]

00:13:37   my fingerprint sensor on the back too [TS]

00:13:39   right yes it does and I apologize you're [TS]

00:13:41   absolutely right about the camera bump [TS]

00:13:42   yeah I mean these phones like and you [TS]

00:13:45   know just superficially the pixel the [TS]

00:13:47   regular pixel to like the regular-sized [TS]

00:13:49   one not the plus-sized one the the top [TS]

00:13:52   and bottom bezels have looked comically [TS]

00:13:54   large by today's standards like that [TS]

00:13:55   like it's funny like yeah yeah iPhone 10 [TS]

00:13:59   comes out and immediately ruins the look [TS]

00:14:04   of all previous iPhone proportions [TS]

00:14:06   forever right and like the pixel two has [TS]

00:14:10   pretty much all iPhone abortions and and [TS]

00:14:12   it looks just impossibly old now the to [TS]

00:14:15   the pixel to 10 L has much more of like [TS]

00:14:19   an s8 style proportion where it's almost [TS]

00:14:23   it's it's kind of like what people want [TS]

00:14:26   Apple to do with the iPhone 10 where [TS]

00:14:29   they lop off the top and bottom and just [TS]

00:14:30   make it black and just give a curved [TS]

00:14:33   thing in the middle and I don't I don't [TS]

00:14:35   think it's that attractive honestly so [TS]

00:14:37   maybe this is kind of why Apple didn't [TS]

00:14:40   do that like maybe they found the same [TS]

00:14:42   thing they try it and there's a car that [TS]

00:14:43   just doesn't look as good I don't know [TS]

00:14:45   but anyway [TS]

00:14:46   every time that like a new Google [TS]

00:14:49   official phone comes out back when they [TS]

00:14:50   were called nexuses and now that now [TS]

00:14:52   that they're called pixels here's what's [TS]

00:14:55   gonna happen [TS]

00:14:55   all the gadget nerds are going to fawn [TS]

00:14:58   all over certain features of this [TS]

00:15:00   they're all gonna say man this is the [TS]

00:15:02   best phone at you know feature X Y X Y [TS]

00:15:05   or Z or this is the best Android phone [TS]

00:15:07   ever made and then like in three months [TS]

00:15:09   Samsung is gonna come out with a better [TS]

00:15:11   one and no one will actually keep using [TS]

00:15:14   this phone long term everybody will tell [TS]

00:15:17   you like how great it is and they're so [TS]

00:15:20   glad Google's making these awesome [TS]

00:15:21   phones and this is the best at these [TS]

00:15:22   certain things but none of them will [TS]

00:15:24   actually switch to it permanently [TS]

00:15:26   they're all going to either go back to [TS]

00:15:27   their iPhones or they're going to go to [TS]

00:15:30   whatever Samsung launches next or go [TS]

00:15:32   back to what [TS]

00:15:32   recently because google just does not [TS]

00:15:37   they make this great hardware that [TS]

00:15:40   that's like good and reviews but it's [TS]

00:15:43   usually not class leading in like in the [TS]

00:15:46   in the big picture and also they never [TS]

00:15:49   sell very many of them comparably [TS]

00:15:51   speaking because their their retail [TS]

00:15:53   distribution game is crap compared to [TS]

00:15:56   all their competitors you know or at [TS]

00:15:58   least compared to Samsung and Apple so [TS]

00:16:00   it's it's funny it's fun to me to look [TS]

00:16:04   at these things when they come out and [TS]

00:16:05   say oh that's interesting is like [TS]

00:16:06   everyone else but it's hard for me to [TS]

00:16:08   ever see Google's launches like this [TS]

00:16:10   having a major impact in the market [TS]

00:16:12   really they have a major impact on [TS]

00:16:14   reviews that make it seem like they're [TS]

00:16:16   gonna have a major impact impact on the [TS]

00:16:17   market but they never do I don't know if [TS]

00:16:19   that's entirely true though because I [TS]

00:16:20   think these are the darling phones of [TS]

00:16:22   the people that are like us but like [TS]

00:16:25   Android and so your point is 90% true I [TS]

00:16:30   think but these certainly do make a big [TS]

00:16:32   splash and I think are held on to by the [TS]

00:16:34   people who really really truly love [TS]

00:16:36   Android now I won't make any snarky [TS]

00:16:39   comments about how many people that is [TS]

00:16:41   and I won't guess publicly that it's ten [TS]

00:16:44   but but nevertheless I do think it's [TS]

00:16:46   important to they all work on verge the [TS]

00:16:49   other thing about this phone like the [TS]

00:16:51   front I agree with you that the [TS]

00:16:53   proportions look wrong now that I've [TS]

00:16:54   seen an iPhone 10 but the back this [TS]

00:16:58   two-tone thing do not want like if you [TS]

00:17:02   scroll down the verge article it's [TS]

00:17:03   almost all the way at the bottom this [TS]

00:17:05   two-tone that they've had for two years [TS]

00:17:07   running now does not work for me at all [TS]

00:17:09   I think it looks like garbage yeah I [TS]

00:17:12   mean no one's buying this phone for the [TS]

00:17:14   looks let's be honest saying you know [TS]

00:17:15   same as other Google stuff in the past [TS]

00:17:17   like the people who buy this are [TS]

00:17:19   reviewers and people who really like [TS]

00:17:23   tech nerds who very closely follow like [TS]

00:17:25   Google and the Android world like it's [TS]

00:17:28   not gonna be a lot of normal consumers [TS]

00:17:30   yeah so I thought it was worth bringing [TS]

00:17:33   up and and I'm sorry that we have an [TS]

00:17:36   extended pre-show this time mr. siracusa [TS]

00:17:38   I kind of like the black-and-white one [TS]

00:17:40   orange button on the side it's kind of [TS]

00:17:42   stormtrooper II though is a good look [TS]

00:17:44   the most offensive thing about the back [TS]

00:17:46   of [TS]

00:17:46   is that terrible G logo yeah I noticed [TS]

00:17:49   that too it's pretty bad and I guess the [TS]

00:17:51   touch sensor how does the squeeze part [TS]

00:17:53   work if you have a case like does that [TS]

00:17:56   impair squeeze ability do you have to [TS]

00:17:57   get a squeezable case do they live [TS]

00:17:59   little cutouts for both the belly button [TS]

00:18:01   and and the squeeze sides right like you [TS]

00:18:03   can imagine case it's like rigid all [TS]

00:18:04   around but then it has squishy areas for [TS]

00:18:06   the squeeze no I mean like you know [TS]

00:18:10   everything I said earlier like I I don't [TS]

00:18:13   want this to be the case like I want [TS]

00:18:15   somebody in the Android world to make [TS]

00:18:18   phones that are really really nice and [TS]

00:18:21   that really kick Apple in the pants and [TS]

00:18:24   make everyone compete on a higher level [TS]

00:18:27   Samsung doesn't do that [TS]

00:18:29   you know Samsung makes phones that are [TS]

00:18:31   that have great specs but usually have [TS]

00:18:34   lots of downsides I got to say like they [TS]

00:18:38   are getting better at the physical [TS]

00:18:41   design side but they still always have a [TS]

00:18:43   lot of like weird like bizarre dumb [TS]

00:18:45   features and downsides and weird [TS]

00:18:47   decisions I think Google is coming [TS]

00:18:49   closest to being able to compete with [TS]

00:18:52   really nice stuff in the Android world [TS]

00:18:56   but they're just so far from actually [TS]

00:18:59   being on the same level that I don't [TS]

00:19:01   think Apple looks at this at all and is [TS]

00:19:02   threatened by this I also think that [TS]

00:19:04   again like their their lack of having [TS]

00:19:06   much retail power or distribution power [TS]

00:19:08   to get these things sold in large [TS]

00:19:09   volumes I think that just doesn't [TS]

00:19:11   intimidate Apple at all I wish there was [TS]

00:19:14   a higher level competition here but [TS]

00:19:16   there just isn't yet yeah I agree [TS]

00:19:19   all right 20 minutes later with the [TS]

00:19:22   pre-show oh man all right so let's let's [TS]

00:19:30   quote unquote start with some follow up [TS]

00:19:33   John how's your fan do you hear the fan [TS]

00:19:36   in your Apple TV and that's the thing [TS]

00:19:38   just one follow up how soon we all [TS]

00:19:49   forget anyway I do have my Apple TV 4k I [TS]

00:19:56   did I rotated my Apple TV's a couple of [TS]

00:19:58   notes about [TS]

00:19:59   thing first just to confirm about the [TS]

00:20:03   output format thing the person who wrote [TS]

00:20:04   in to tell us that you can change to 24 [TS]

00:20:07   Hertz but only in 4k I found that also [TS]

00:20:10   to be the case despite the fact that my [TS]

00:20:11   television can accept 24 hours input the [TS]

00:20:14   Apple TV will not send it because it's [TS]

00:20:16   not a 4k TV so if I had a 4k TV I could [TS]

00:20:18   do 24 hours but because I have a 1080p [TS]

00:20:20   TV I can't [TS]

00:20:21   second thing is setting up the Apple TV [TS]

00:20:23   it's got the thing where you bring the [TS]

00:20:25   phone near it was that in the old one or [TS]

00:20:27   is that the new home plaudit well it was [TS]

00:20:29   in the old one anyway [TS]

00:20:31   that was nice but then I realized oh I [TS]

00:20:33   have to redownload all my purchased apps [TS]

00:20:36   and then remember how they were arranged [TS]

00:20:38   and stuff like that if you're setting up [TS]

00:20:40   a new Apple TV 4k and find yourself in [TS]

00:20:42   that situation stop because there is a [TS]

00:20:45   setting somewhere in settings and the [TS]

00:20:47   Settings app did I figure what's call [TS]

00:20:49   like homescreen sync or something you [TS]

00:20:51   can tell it to make this Apple TV like [TS]

00:20:54   all your other Rapp TVs in other words [TS]

00:20:56   keep the home screens in sync with each [TS]

00:20:57   other and you turn that on and it will I [TS]

00:20:59   think it'll automatically download yes [TS]

00:21:01   but certainly it will rearrange them to [TS]

00:21:02   be in the same order as they were on [TS]

00:21:04   your other Apple TV which saves a lot of [TS]

00:21:06   time unfortunately you still have to log [TS]

00:21:09   in with all your applications and doing [TS]

00:21:12   that is a super pain like there's this [TS]

00:21:14   feature I don't know if it's new because [TS]

00:21:16   I haven't set up an Apple TV in forever [TS]

00:21:17   but when you're launch an app and it [TS]

00:21:21   wants you to like log in like Allah like [TS]

00:21:23   into the Netflix app right and you have [TS]

00:21:25   to log in with your you know email [TS]

00:21:26   address and password or just how you [TS]

00:21:28   just log into Netflix everywhere and [TS]

00:21:31   when you do that Apple TV tries to [TS]

00:21:33   remember the email address you entered [TS]

00:21:35   because it's such a pain to enter things [TS]

00:21:36   with the remote so that the next time [TS]

00:21:38   you go to a different app to log in it [TS]

00:21:39   will give you a choice of recently used [TS]

00:21:41   email addresses there's actually a [TS]

00:21:43   section in settings it shows all you [TS]

00:21:45   recently use the email addresses which [TS]

00:21:47   sounds like a good idea because hey I [TS]

00:21:48   don't want to type that email address [TS]

00:21:49   more than one time but since I use the [TS]

00:21:52   remote app on my phone to type things in [TS]

00:21:54   instead of using the terrible Apple TV [TS]

00:21:56   remote [TS]

00:21:56   there's some weird interaction [TS]

00:21:58   apparently no one at Apple ever did this [TS]

00:22:00   because I enter the email address does [TS]

00:22:02   that do that and you know it works fine [TS]

00:22:06   and I sign it and everything like that [TS]

00:22:07   and then I go to the second app and says [TS]

00:22:08   choose from your recent email addresses [TS]

00:22:10   and it shows my iCloud email because it [TS]

00:22:12   knows that when the [TS]

00:22:12   I'm signed into iCloud at male TV and [TS]

00:22:14   then the other choice is the first [TS]

00:22:15   letter only of my previous email there's [TS]

00:22:17   like a single letter and as I entered in [TS]

00:22:20   multiple email addresses to sign into [TS]

00:22:21   multiple services it would only save the [TS]

00:22:23   first letter I think it's because I was [TS]

00:22:25   typing it all on my phone like that the [TS]

00:22:27   phone remote app that's a stupid [TS]

00:22:29   terrible bug I'm like alright well I'll [TS]

00:22:31   go into settings and I'll be able to [TS]

00:22:32   edit those nope all you can do is delete [TS]

00:22:34   them in settings so I got to delete all [TS]

00:22:36   the single character email addresses but [TS]

00:22:37   that's a dumb bug and they should fix [TS]

00:22:39   that but I do like the idea of it [TS]

00:22:41   remembering the feature for the other [TS]

00:22:43   things there's like that please select [TS]

00:22:45   your television provider right and my [TS]

00:22:47   television provider is on the list and [TS]

00:22:49   like oh this is great this is that [TS]

00:22:50   single sign-on thing I'm not quite sure [TS]

00:22:53   what's you doing with my provider like [TS]

00:22:55   what part of the process is streamlining [TS]

00:22:57   but having signed into umpteen [TS]

00:22:59   applications for all the services that I [TS]

00:23:00   subscribe to and being bounced from [TS]

00:23:02   webpage to application you know around [TS]

00:23:04   and around in circles and going to like [TS]

00:23:06   youtube.com slash activate and all these [TS]

00:23:07   other URLs and typing in four-letter [TS]

00:23:09   codes [TS]

00:23:09   I don't think there was any single [TS]

00:23:11   sign-on did entering my television [TS]

00:23:14   provider saved me from in fact the worst [TS]

00:23:16   offender was I think it was Showtime or [TS]

00:23:17   something as far as I could tell they [TS]

00:23:19   want you they launched the app and it [TS]

00:23:21   says plea to go to like show time [TS]

00:23:23   anytime calm slash activate I mean I go [TS]

00:23:25   here I'm gonna do that I'm gonna type in [TS]

00:23:26   this code when you go there as far as I [TS]

00:23:29   can tell it demands that you download [TS]

00:23:31   their iOS app just so you can activate [TS]

00:23:33   their live TV you download the iOS app [TS]

00:23:37   and that's the only time you get to type [TS]

00:23:39   in the code it's logged me into [TS]

00:23:41   television apps is the worst thing ever [TS]

00:23:42   so home screen sync is great I wish [TS]

00:23:44   would also sync the fact that I'm logged [TS]

00:23:46   in to a million of these services and [TS]

00:23:48   someone added a one night final item [TS]

00:23:50   here about remote improvements as far as [TS]

00:23:53   I can tell there are none that I can [TS]

00:23:56   detect other than the raised ring which [TS]

00:23:58   helps less than I thought it would [TS]

00:24:00   because I think my main complaint I mean [TS]

00:24:02   I I guess I don't pick it up backwards [TS]

00:24:04   as much as most people because I look at [TS]

00:24:06   it and the reason I look at it because [TS]

00:24:07   it's like I said like so it's like a [TS]

00:24:08   mousetrap or like the game of operation [TS]

00:24:10   like you just you have to look at it too [TS]

00:24:12   gingerly pick it up so that you don't [TS]

00:24:13   accidentally cause something to happen [TS]

00:24:15   people are saying that it is better [TS]

00:24:16   about axonal input but I don't like it [TS]

00:24:18   when the progress bar comes up and like [TS]

00:24:20   overlays the show that people are [TS]

00:24:22   watching frequently I will pick it up to [TS]

00:24:24   just you know use the volume or [TS]

00:24:25   something like that and [TS]

00:24:26   accidentally graze the touchpad and now [TS]

00:24:28   you got to do a five count for the you [TS]

00:24:30   know the progress bar to disappear off [TS]

00:24:32   the screen I don't like that remote it's [TS]

00:24:35   still bad I mean I will say that the the [TS]

00:24:39   ring around the Menu button does help it [TS]

00:24:43   because it is noticeably raised and so [TS]

00:24:46   it now does feel different if you hold [TS]

00:24:50   it wrong and you can orient yourself by [TS]

00:24:52   feel with that button but that's the [TS]

00:24:54   only problem it solves this remote has [TS]

00:24:57   lots of other problems it doesn't [TS]

00:24:58   anybody solve that problem because if [TS]

00:25:00   you if you grab it upside down and you [TS]

00:25:01   go oh this I don't feel the ridge so I [TS]

00:25:03   know I'm holding up a so damn well guess [TS]

00:25:04   what your palm has been all over that [TS]

00:25:06   touchpad by this point and it has done [TS]

00:25:08   it certainly has brought up the progress [TS]

00:25:10   bar who knows what I was it might've [TS]

00:25:11   done especially if you've gripped it [TS]

00:25:12   firmly [TS]

00:25:12   instead of gingerly like the beautiful [TS]

00:25:14   delicate little insect that it is right [TS]

00:25:16   you actually grab the remote you [TS]

00:25:18   probably not only grazed the touchpad [TS]

00:25:19   but activated the pressure-sensitive [TS]

00:25:21   button and who knows what you did it's [TS]

00:25:23   the worst yeah I mean I'm not quite as [TS]

00:25:26   hard on it as you in this regard however [TS]

00:25:28   the white the white circle the raised [TS]

00:25:31   white circle on this button does help [TS]

00:25:33   but the remote is still a terrible [TS]

00:25:35   remote and I wish they would have done [TS]

00:25:38   substantially more to actually redesign [TS]

00:25:40   this thing instead of basically digging [TS]

00:25:43   in and saying no this is fine here take [TS]

00:25:45   a stupid white ring like that's [TS]

00:25:47   basically what this to what this [TS]

00:25:48   revision says oh and I was frequently [TS]

00:25:50   faced with the prompt that says hold [TS]

00:25:51   down the speaker button to speak like [TS]

00:25:52   very often you know it's like let me [TS]

00:25:54   just speak this thing that I have to [TS]

00:25:55   enter here instead of typing because [TS]

00:25:57   even just typing on your phone gets [TS]

00:25:58   tedious after a while like I'm not very [TS]

00:25:59   good with a with the phone sized [TS]

00:26:01   keyboard or whatever so I'm like okay [TS]

00:26:03   it's prompting me with the little [TS]

00:26:04   speaker and says hold down the button [TS]

00:26:06   and talking to your microphone and that [TS]

00:26:07   often works if you just say want to say [TS]

00:26:09   like watch Game of Thrones it will do [TS]

00:26:11   that like that part of the Apple TV [TS]

00:26:12   experience is great anytime you don't [TS]

00:26:13   have to use the remote you're like yes [TS]

00:26:15   right and so I'm gonna text me or some [TS]

00:26:17   kind and it's telling me [TS]

00:26:19   hold down the remote and talk and I [TS]

00:26:21   would call down the remote and start to [TS]

00:26:22   talk and as soon as I started talking [TS]

00:26:23   we'll just go Boop and it would like [TS]

00:26:25   stop listening to me and then it would [TS]

00:26:26   say hold down the remote and try to talk [TS]

00:26:28   and I would pull the head remote and [TS]

00:26:29   started talking to go Boop and stop [TS]

00:26:30   listening to me like instead wouldn't it [TS]

00:26:32   wouldn't maybe I'll get like one [TS]

00:26:33   character out or wouldn't type anything [TS]

00:26:35   it was just like why why what is [TS]

00:26:38   happening [TS]

00:26:39   do you hate me you're a brand new thing [TS]

00:26:40   out of the box you're presenting me a [TS]

00:26:41   native text filled with the native you [TS]

00:26:43   know the little picker with the alphabet [TS]

00:26:45   and and the three things [TS]

00:26:47   oh yeah and during the setup experience [TS]

00:26:49   they had this crazy on-screen prompt [TS]

00:26:51   they're asking a bunch of questions and [TS]

00:26:52   a series of like sort of wizard type [TS]

00:26:56   screens of asking you questions there [TS]

00:26:58   would be a thing highlighted and below [TS]

00:27:00   it like the corners of a triangle like [TS]

00:27:02   were two buttons and your highlight [TS]

00:27:06   would be on like the top point of the [TS]

00:27:07   triangle like that button and there [TS]

00:27:10   would be a button you know sort of [TS]

00:27:12   Southwest and a button southeast and I [TS]

00:27:16   couldn't for the life me figure out what [TS]

00:27:18   direction it wanted me to swipe to get [TS]

00:27:20   to the south west or south east button [TS]

00:27:22   because swiping south did nothing right [TS]

00:27:25   and you're like this why the West to get [TS]

00:27:28   Southwest and as far as I could tell it [TS]

00:27:30   was like any direction you swipe to do [TS]

00:27:33   anything would always bring you to the [TS]

00:27:35   default button and then if you didn't [TS]

00:27:36   want the default you could swipe right [TS]

00:27:38   because the default button was on the [TS]

00:27:39   Left there was like a good puzzle game [TS]

00:27:41   of figuring out how I move the selection [TS]

00:27:43   basically down and to the left it was [TS]

00:27:48   the worst that did you experience with [TS]

00:27:52   this when you're setting up marker know [TS]

00:27:53   my experimental experience was pretty [TS]

00:27:56   flawless and in fact I was actually also [TS]

00:27:59   getting a compliment that my my you know [TS]

00:28:02   keep the home screens in sync thing [TS]

00:28:04   worked great I mean probably because I [TS]

00:28:06   use far fewer apps than it sounds like [TS]

00:28:08   you do and I have far fewer accounts for [TS]

00:28:11   things that I need to sign in to for me [TS]

00:28:12   it's basically just like Netflix and HBO [TS]

00:28:15   now go thing that's it like that's I [TS]

00:28:19   don't really have anything else on me [TS]

00:28:20   you did have to resize those but I [TS]

00:28:22   thought I thought was like a wizard at [TS]

00:28:23   the beginning that forced you to pick [TS]

00:28:24   all the things that I was picking it [TS]

00:28:25   that gave you the triangle buttons where [TS]

00:28:27   I forget what this the highlight is on [TS]

00:28:29   but yeah the dragging Southwest I would [TS]

00:28:32   like to swipe what I was think was [TS]

00:28:33   Southwest and the selection would just [TS]

00:28:35   not move it would just not move in so I [TS]

00:28:36   would do south it wouldn't move I think [TS]

00:28:38   it wanted you to go like wet dead West [TS]

00:28:40   to select an item on screen southwest [TS]

00:28:43   infuriating I should have taken pictures [TS]

00:28:45   of the screen no I do not have those [TS]

00:28:47   issues but I mean a lot of this UI it [TS]

00:28:50   has been [TS]

00:28:51   like three-quarters baked for two years [TS]

00:28:53   now and doesn't seem to be getting put [TS]

00:28:56   back in the oven so wouldn't surprise me [TS]

00:28:58   anyway that's it I've got my 4k apple TV [TS]

00:29:01   I rotated all the apples feasts and not [TS]

00:29:02   have one free one like my Apple TV 3 is [TS]

00:29:04   now like that yep [TS]

00:29:05   the travel TV oh and I usually use this [TS]

00:29:10   is a TiVo complete I usually use the I [TS]

00:29:12   have an old TiVo remote that I use with [TS]

00:29:13   an old Apple TV and I trained it on the [TS]

00:29:15   TV that rotated up to the bedroom but [TS]

00:29:18   the problem is the new stupid bent TiVo [TS]

00:29:20   that I have up there like they're their [TS]

00:29:22   top of the line box essentially as far [TS]

00:29:24   as I can tell there is no way to get it [TS]

00:29:27   to not receive signals from my TiVo [TS]

00:29:29   remote I even have the technicals before [TS]

00:29:31   uh steeper once used to have a 1/2 [TS]

00:29:33   swatch on them you can switch to the one [TS]

00:29:34   side of the two sides you could have to [TS]

00:29:35   TiVo hooked up to your TV you have one [TS]

00:29:37   remote set to one or more remote side to [TS]

00:29:38   two so they would interfere with each [TS]

00:29:39   other which was a great idea the TV was [TS]

00:29:41   really smart but the new TiVo's no [TS]

00:29:43   matter what I set any of their remotes [TS]

00:29:46   to this bent TiVo sees Bay's the [TS]

00:29:49   commands of any team over remote so you [TS]

00:29:50   can't use the TiVo remote with the Apple [TS]

00:29:52   TV but you can but you will realize that [TS]

00:29:54   you are blindly going through menus [TS]

00:29:56   accidentally who knows possibly you know [TS]

00:29:59   deleting stuff or recording things you [TS]

00:30:00   don't want because every time you press [TS]

00:30:02   a button the TiVo registers the command [TS]

00:30:05   in addition to the Apple TV so that's [TS]

00:30:07   kind of crappy so I we have to use the [TS]

00:30:09   the crappy Apple TV remote upstairs now [TS]

00:30:11   I'm sorry Jon I know it's hard for you I [TS]

00:30:13   think you can turn off the IR on the [TS]

00:30:16   thing and they just make it do blue blue [TS]

00:30:17   the only but that you can't do the [TS]

00:30:18   volume control because the volume [TS]

00:30:19   controls IR it's a it's a complicated [TS]

00:30:21   situation I also have a piece of tin [TS]

00:30:23   foil covering the other TiVo that's up [TS]

00:30:25   there I have to TiVo it simple works [TS]

00:30:29   great though by the way it's like it how [TS]

00:30:30   do i how do i where is the IR sensor how [TS]

00:30:32   do I stop the r guess what can fall over [TS]

00:30:33   the whole front of it oh my god solves [TS]

00:30:35   that problem [TS]

00:30:36   that's incredible and when you don't [TS]

00:30:37   need it to block your TiVo you can wear [TS]

00:30:39   it as a hat [TS]

00:30:39   ya know I mean I wanted to just get rid [TS]

00:30:42   of it but we have tons of pre-recorded [TS]

00:30:43   stuff on there so we're slowly and [TS]

00:30:45   painfully transferring it from the old [TS]

00:30:47   TiVo to the new TiVo which takes forever [TS]

00:30:48   for a variety of dumb reasons most of [TS]

00:30:51   which have to do with the weak Wi-Fi [TS]

00:30:53   signal that I have like in that corner [TS]

00:30:55   of the house for the TV is but and the [TS]

00:30:58   fact that I think it's like 802 11 B or [TS]

00:31:00   something like it doesn't even have [TS]

00:31:02   Wi-Fi built in the old one so it's like [TS]

00:31:04   a little adapter than hanging out the [TS]

00:31:05   end so the Wi-Fi speeds are super slow [TS]

00:31:07   anyway eventually it will get rid of [TS]

00:31:09   that box and then yeah and someone the [TS]

00:31:13   cherubs asking me ever heard of Euro we [TS]

00:31:15   do have Euro we have five bars five you [TS]

00:31:17   know full signal strength in there but [TS]

00:31:18   like the the Wi-Fi adapter dongle thing [TS]

00:31:22   is bad and in general t-bo's got really [TS]

00:31:23   bad transfer speeds not even limited by [TS]

00:31:26   that network so who knows what its [TS]

00:31:27   problem is but it takes a long time oh I [TS]

00:31:30   forgot about the fan yeah alright so I [TS]

00:31:36   actually forgot I did forget what I [TS]

00:31:38   hoped it up I'm doing CV setup and [TS]

00:31:40   everything like oh I forgot I should do [TS]

00:31:41   go look at the fan so by this point it's [TS]

00:31:43   connected to my television and I've been [TS]

00:31:45   using it to like set up all the [TS]

00:31:47   applications and do all the setup stuff [TS]

00:31:48   and I actually you know played a few [TS]

00:31:51   games with it and to see if the [TS]

00:31:53   performance was better and stuff like [TS]

00:31:54   that then I had to go over the TV [TS]

00:31:56   grab the little thing and of course I [TS]

00:31:58   can't pull it away from the [TS]

00:31:59   entertainment centre very far because [TS]

00:32:00   it's got an HDMI cable in the back and [TS]

00:32:02   the power cord and stuff like that and [TS]

00:32:03   if I unplug the power cord obviously the [TS]

00:32:05   fan will be off and on my television I [TS]

00:32:08   have at the very least a TiVo with the [TS]

00:32:10   fans are on my television itself has [TS]

00:32:12   fans in it so this is a pretty noisy [TS]

00:32:13   environment nevertheless held that thing [TS]

00:32:16   up to my ear I can hear the fan and I'm [TS]

00:32:18   like oh that's not fair I did a lot of [TS]

00:32:20   setup I was playing games I just let it [TS]

00:32:21   sit so the next morning after the tea [TS]

00:32:23   the Apple TV been sleeping all night [TS]

00:32:24   long [TS]

00:32:25   I came activated the Apple TV so the [TS]

00:32:28   little light turns on throw it up to my [TS]

00:32:29   ear I can still hear it so you can hear [TS]

00:32:32   it if you shove it up to your ear but I [TS]

00:32:33   guarantee you get four inches away and [TS]

00:32:36   you cannot hear it even if it was in a [TS]

00:32:39   dead sound room and it's not it is in my [TS]

00:32:41   entertainment center with my TiVo fan [TS]

00:32:42   and my television fans so noise is [TS]

00:32:45   absolutely not a concern with this I [TS]

00:32:46   think the fan is always spinning you can [TS]

00:32:49   hear it if you put it up to your ear and [TS]

00:32:51   if you have better hearing then [TS]

00:32:53   apparently Jason Snell and Margo I don't [TS]

00:32:57   understand how you couldn't hear it it [TS]

00:32:58   wasn't even close like you can hear it [TS]

00:33:00   wait I didn't put my ear right against [TS]

00:33:02   the case I just moved my ear close to it [TS]

00:33:05   no you have to pick it up and hold it to [TS]

00:33:07   your ear like your like your you know [TS]

00:33:09   what do you call like it when you ever [TS]

00:33:10   see in the movies where some some record [TS]

00:33:12   producer is trying to listen to some [TS]

00:33:14   music and get into the groove and takes [TS]

00:33:15   a pair of headphones [TS]

00:33:16   but he only holds one year of the [TS]

00:33:17   headphones against his ear oh yeah yep [TS]

00:33:20   do that no anyway if you have any [TS]

00:33:24   concerns about this fan it gets the John [TS]

00:33:26   Serkis a seal of approval it is [TS]

00:33:29   inaudible to humans you're fine [TS]

00:33:31   Wow can we get like an actual seal made [TS]

00:33:34   to that effect [TS]

00:33:34   I don't put stickers on things also did [TS]

00:33:38   you just imply that you're not human [TS]

00:33:40   did we just get confirmation that you [TS]

00:33:42   are a robot it's inaudible to humans [TS]

00:33:44   unless you're holding it to your ear [TS]

00:33:45   you're not supposed to use the house of [TS]

00:33:47   you whole literally holding it to your [TS]

00:33:48   ear like a like a seashell you know you [TS]

00:33:50   can hear the ocean in shell Marco has [TS]

00:33:52   anyone taught you this now the yer beach [TS]

00:33:53   bum yes alright good anyway that's there [TS]

00:33:57   you go do that maybe he's a super here [TS]

00:33:59   wouldn't surprise me maybe I just don't [TS]

00:34:01   last time I just had my yearly physical [TS]

00:34:04   and the last time I had my yearly [TS]

00:34:06   physical oh my god are we really going [TS]

00:34:08   they did they did the hearing test you [TS]

00:34:10   know where they did the different tones [TS]

00:34:11   in your ears and last year I failed a [TS]

00:34:14   bunch of the tones in my right ear and [TS]

00:34:16   she's like oh it's probably just because [TS]

00:34:17   you have a cold like oh my god I'm going [TS]

00:34:18   deaf I'm old but turns out just without [TS]

00:34:20   a cold this year I got them all the long [TS]

00:34:22   national nightmare is over we are [TS]

00:34:25   sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

00:34:26   rethink what your money can do for more [TS]

00:34:29   information visit betterment comm slash [TS]

00:34:31   ATP betterment is the largest [TS]

00:34:33   independent online financial advisor the [TS]

00:34:36   service is designed to help improve your [TS]

00:34:37   long-term returns and lower your taxes [TS]

00:34:40   for retirement planning building wealth [TS]

00:34:42   and your other financial goals [TS]

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00:34:45   strategies and uses technology to [TS]

00:34:47   deliver them to more than 270,000 [TS]

00:34:50   customers their experts have your back [TS]

00:34:52   they believe that you should be able to [TS]

00:34:54   get financial advice anytime anywhere so [TS]

00:34:57   all betterment customers can receive [TS]

00:34:58   advice from their team of licensed [TS]

00:35:00   experts through their mobile apps [TS]

00:35:02   messaging feature and they have low [TS]

00:35:04   transparent advisory fees compared to [TS]

00:35:07   traditional services with only a 0.25 [TS]

00:35:10   percent annual fee with unlimited [TS]

00:35:12   messaging access to their team of [TS]

00:35:14   licensed financial experts and if you [TS]

00:35:15   have a more complex situation where you [TS]

00:35:17   want unlimited phone call access to a [TS]

00:35:19   team of certified financial planners you [TS]

00:35:21   can get that for only 0.4% annually and [TS]

00:35:25   betterment so device use a technology to [TS]

00:35:28   make your investing easier they [TS]

00:35:30   that investing shouldn't be a confusing [TS]

00:35:31   or frustrating experience with [TS]

00:35:33   technology that is built to make [TS]

00:35:35   managing your wealth an easy and [TS]

00:35:37   enjoyable experience investing involves [TS]

00:35:39   risk listeners can get up to one year [TS]

00:35:41   managed free at betterment comm slash [TS]

00:35:43   ATP betterment rethink what your money [TS]

00:35:46   can do so let's move on to ask ATP and [TS]

00:35:52   the curiously named null road hint ask [TS]

00:35:55   what did Marko and Casey use for iowa's [TS]

00:35:57   error logging existing frameworks or [TS]

00:35:59   something homegrown hashtag noob and it [TS]

00:36:01   looks like this was spelled correctly [TS]

00:36:02   with two zeros so I applaud you now [TS]

00:36:04   anyway noob iOS dev since I'm talking I [TS]

00:36:08   will go ahead and start the company I [TS]

00:36:09   work for uses fabric which was well I [TS]

00:36:12   don't even know the relationship with [TS]

00:36:14   crashlytics either was crashlytics or [TS]

00:36:16   fresh lettuce is now considered a [TS]

00:36:17   product with the paralytics was acquired [TS]

00:36:19   by Twitter Twitter rolled it into a [TS]

00:36:20   larger thing called fabric that Google [TS]

00:36:22   bought fabric from Twitter right ok [TS]

00:36:24   there you go so that is what we are [TS]

00:36:25   currently using it is sufficient I don't [TS]

00:36:29   forgive any errors logging is this I [TS]

00:36:31   don't include is this just crash [TS]

00:36:33   reporting I I took this to mean like NS [TS]

00:36:35   log kind of error logging oh oh that is [TS]

00:36:38   not how I took this I took this to mean [TS]

00:36:39   crash reporting which is exactly what [TS]

00:36:41   you expected and for that we use fabric [TS]

00:36:43   for like in a slog sort of thing we [TS]

00:36:45   don't we don't do anything using this [TS]

00:36:47   log yeah well I mean we don't have any [TS]

00:36:49   mechanism by which that's reported [TS]

00:36:51   anywhere is what I mean like we we use [TS]

00:36:53   well really we use print because we're [TS]

00:36:55   not stuck in 1987 on objective-c but [TS]

00:36:59   anyway we we just used the effectively [TS]

00:37:03   NS log for you know local debugging and [TS]

00:37:05   development and stuff like that but we [TS]

00:37:06   don't we'd never gets reported to a [TS]

00:37:08   server anywhere or not knowingly anyway [TS]

00:37:09   I'm sure somebody's gonna write in and [TS]

00:37:11   tell me no you idiot crashlytics getting [TS]

00:37:13   all that too and that very well may be [TS]

00:37:14   the case but I've never seen it probably [TS]

00:37:15   yeah I use NS log in development in [TS]

00:37:20   production I don't think my app logs [TS]

00:37:22   much of anything I usually remove them [TS]

00:37:24   or I use like you know macros to have [TS]

00:37:26   like a debug log that calls a nice log [TS]

00:37:28   in development but not in production [TS]

00:37:29   stuff like that so and then I don't have [TS]

00:37:32   any mechanism for the instances of the [TS]

00:37:35   app out in the field to be reporting [TS]

00:37:37   back to me what they have logged [TS]

00:37:39   I don't have that right same here [TS]

00:37:41   haven't had the need for it ever that's [TS]

00:37:43   he [TS]

00:37:43   like a lot of data to deal with I also I [TS]

00:37:45   know that that last year they introduced [TS]

00:37:48   this whole like unified logging [TS]

00:37:50   framework thing about all the systems [TS]

00:37:52   and I honestly had I don't know anything [TS]

00:37:55   about it I never saw the session I [TS]

00:37:57   haven't looked at it at all and all the [TS]

00:38:02   only thing I see from that is that ever [TS]

00:38:04   since they introduced that new logging [TS]

00:38:05   system console app is completely useless [TS]

00:38:08   the phone console is covered in garbage [TS]

00:38:11   can I look in Xcode and that when I even [TS]

00:38:13   when I do a build and run in Xcode all [TS]

00:38:16   the system crap still logs to that [TS]

00:38:19   console what makes it very hard for me [TS]

00:38:20   to use and us talking for anything else [TS]

00:38:22   so I think the new system has not made a [TS]

00:38:24   good impression on me having not used it [TS]

00:38:26   because now it just seems like [TS]

00:38:28   everything in the OSS is constantly [TS]

00:38:30   spewing crap into the logs and that [TS]

00:38:32   can't be good no matter how lightweight [TS]

00:38:34   they've made it yeah yeah Alex writes in [TS]

00:38:37   is there any meaningful difference [TS]

00:38:38   between the $50.00 qi is that right so [TS]

00:38:41   he pronounced this yes [TS]

00:38:42   Thank You Chi Chargers apples promoting [TS]

00:38:44   and the $15 no name ones on Amazon [TS]

00:38:47   pronounce 10 I don't have the faintest [TS]

00:38:51   idea what the answer this question is I [TS]

00:38:53   understand the question but I I don't [TS]

00:38:54   know I don't have any she capable [TS]

00:38:56   devices in my house right now so the [TS]

00:38:59   reason I put this in here is because a [TS]

00:39:00   bunch of people have been using their [TS]

00:39:02   iPhone eights with the non apple Chi [TS]

00:39:05   chargers and having varying experiences [TS]

00:39:07   with like exactly how carefully you have [TS]

00:39:10   to position the phone on the mat both [TS]

00:39:13   orient and position it and you know the [TS]

00:39:15   basics tale of woe is I woke up and my [TS]

00:39:19   phone was 10% charge because I didn't [TS]

00:39:21   put it on the mat quite the right way [TS]

00:39:23   and a lot of people are saying that this [TS]

00:39:27   is the reason why this is the space for [TS]

00:39:30   Apple to innovate they already said that [TS]

00:39:32   they have some things that you can do [TS]

00:39:34   with the air power mat that you can't do [TS]

00:39:36   with a regular charger like charge [TS]

00:39:37   multiple devices at once and have them [TS]

00:39:39   you know do all the things they showed [TS]

00:39:40   in the keynote right that's what air [TS]

00:39:41   power will do but another possible thing [TS]

00:39:43   that the air power mat might do is you [TS]

00:39:47   know be better about positioning now I [TS]

00:39:49   think this question is about what about [TS]

00:39:51   the ones the you know from Belkin or [TS]

00:39:52   whoever that apples from earning fifty [TS]

00:39:54   bucks versus the fifteen dollar ones [TS]

00:39:55   I would imagine that one possible [TS]

00:39:57   difference is exactly how picky they are [TS]

00:39:59   about how you place your thing on it [TS]

00:40:01   right it's probably very easy to make a [TS]

00:40:06   technically Qi compatible charger that [TS]

00:40:08   is super finicky about where you put [TS]

00:40:12   your phone and maybe the more expensive [TS]

00:40:13   ones have you there larger areas where [TS]

00:40:16   you can put them or have multiple [TS]

00:40:17   orientation things or something like [TS]

00:40:19   that that would be my guess having not [TS]

00:40:22   used any of these things and not torn [TS]

00:40:24   any of them apart but it's a very least [TS]

00:40:25   I wanted to bring this up because I hope [TS]

00:40:28   that that's exactly what Apple does they [TS]

00:40:31   regardless of the possible difference [TS]

00:40:32   between 50 and $15 it could just be ones [TS]

00:40:34   Belkin branded and you pay you know [TS]

00:40:35   extra $35 for that or whatever but Apple [TS]

00:40:40   we already know that they're doing multi [TS]

00:40:42   device one of the things that they one [TS]

00:40:44   of the attributes of their fancy air [TS]

00:40:46   power mat which I'm sure won't cost $50 [TS]

00:40:48   is that it should be able to charge in [TS]

00:40:52   lots of different positions and with [TS]

00:40:54   them showing multiple phones and a watch [TS]

00:40:56   all in the same pad surely that means [TS]

00:41:00   that you can put them more or less [TS]

00:41:02   anywhere on the pad and they'll be fine [TS]

00:41:03   because it's not as there's three preset [TS]

00:41:05   division positions you have to put them [TS]

00:41:06   exactly on that especially since as far [TS]

00:41:07   as I can tell the surface of the air [TS]

00:41:09   power is completely featureless like [TS]

00:41:10   there's no red X that says put your [TS]

00:41:12   phone here and put your watch here and [TS]

00:41:14   put your whatever here so that is my [TS]

00:41:16   hope and that is a possible reason to [TS]

00:41:18   maybe wait for the air power thing to [TS]

00:41:20   come out before you take a dive into the [TS]

00:41:22   wireless charging world finally Mike [TS]

00:41:26   Bolton is that your name it's too bad [TS]

00:41:30   that no-talent ass clown ruined it for [TS]

00:41:31   everyone [TS]

00:41:32   Mike Bolton writes in who's the fastest [TS]

00:41:35   typist if you guys play for the best two [TS]

00:41:37   out of three on typeracer or a similar [TS]

00:41:39   head-to-head typing thingy I'll donate a [TS]

00:41:41   hundred dollars to the charity of your [TS]

00:41:42   choosing we didn't get do an actual like [TS]

00:41:46   simultaneous head-to-head thing which I [TS]

00:41:49   am willing to do right now if Marco is [TS]

00:41:50   willing to edit it all out but we each [TS]

00:41:54   well two-thirds of us those of us who [TS]

00:41:56   believe in homework did the homework and [TS]

00:41:58   filled out the appropriate entry in the [TS]

00:42:00   show notes indicating what our scores [TS]

00:42:02   were Marco have you done this I have I [TS]

00:42:05   just didn't put my entry in the show [TS]

00:42:06   notes because of course when you asked [TS]

00:42:08   me for a [TS]

00:42:09   list with a certain number of items in [TS]

00:42:11   it in this case one I can't give my top [TS]

00:42:13   one list it has more than one entry oh [TS]

00:42:16   my god [TS]

00:42:16   he's trying to build it's trying to [TS]

00:42:18   build suspense and by the way going into [TS]

00:42:20   this I assume that I would have the [TS]

00:42:22   slowest timing speed and even though [TS]

00:42:23   marco has an answer this time I'm going [TS]

00:42:24   to say that I will have the slowest I [TS]

00:42:26   mostly do I don't type I don't type [TS]

00:42:28   correctly like the correct way with the [TS]

00:42:31   fingers on the home keys I took typing [TS]

00:42:32   courses on on IBM Selectric typewriters [TS]

00:42:35   in my youth I took many years of typing [TS]

00:42:37   courses and I apparently successfully [TS]

00:42:40   resisted everything they had to teach me [TS]

00:42:41   and I type totally the wrong way and so [TS]

00:42:45   I'm slow I used to hunt and peck for the [TS]

00:42:48   longest time and when I was still pretty [TS]

00:42:50   young I think before I started taking [TS]

00:42:52   like keyboarding class in school I [TS]

00:42:54   decided one day I was going to force [TS]

00:42:57   myself to learn to touch type and I [TS]

00:42:59   basically forced myself to use the home [TS]

00:43:00   row and after given how much I spent how [TS]

00:43:03   much time I spent on a computer even my [TS]

00:43:04   youth it took me all of a couple of [TS]

00:43:06   weeks to get okay and now I well for a [TS]

00:43:09   long time now I've been in the just [TS]

00:43:11   truly tremendous position where I don't [TS]

00:43:14   have to think about where to put my [TS]

00:43:15   fingers words just magically appear on [TS]

00:43:17   the screen and I know I'm not unique in [TS]

00:43:19   that way it's just getting to that point [TS]

00:43:21   is amazing so anyway so what I did was I [TS]

00:43:26   took the test all right I did the little [TS]

00:43:28   typing thing once and then they asked [TS]

00:43:30   you to like verify that you're a human [TS]

00:43:32   by taking another little test and the [TS]

00:43:34   second test that I took so the [TS]

00:43:37   verification test indicated that Ike [TS]

00:43:39   type at 125 words per minute if I had [TS]

00:43:42   seen Marcos score which I'm assuming is [TS]

00:43:44   higher than 125 words per minute I [TS]

00:43:46   assure you I would have spent hours [TS]

00:43:48   getting to the point that I beat it but [TS]

00:43:50   based on one time in one time I guess [TS]

00:43:53   really two times I 100 25 words per [TS]

00:43:56   minute and that was without any sort of [TS]

00:43:57   warm-up I think it was early in the [TS]

00:43:58   morning I would blame it on coffee but [TS]

00:44:00   coffee is evil and so I don't drink [TS]

00:44:02   coffee but that was my score John what [TS]

00:44:05   was your score so I did a couple of runs [TS]

00:44:08   to get warmed up and I put 79 down even [TS]

00:44:11   though that wasn't my very best run [TS]

00:44:13   because I did a little bit [TS]

00:44:14   - that night you can especially once you [TS]

00:44:16   learn the passages that they're having [TS]

00:44:17   your type I have my problem typing these [TS]

00:44:20   things is like I wouldn't put a comma [TS]

00:44:21   there I wouldn't word it that way right [TS]

00:44:25   but once you've done that sometimes they [TS]

00:44:26   repeat or whatever so 79 is what I'm [TS]

00:44:28   entering here I think that is [TS]

00:44:29   representative of my type you see I can [TS]

00:44:31   go faster by like hammering away at that [TS]

00:44:33   and get into the 80s or 90s but [TS]

00:44:35   realistically speaking I'm not typing [TS]

00:44:36   that fast I only kind of wish they asked [TS]

00:44:38   this - right now this is cheating but if [TS]

00:44:40   they asked us to write Perl code I think [TS]

00:44:41   I would do a pretty good despite the [TS]

00:44:43   fact that that I my hands are not in the [TS]

00:44:46   right place I'm really good at dollar [TS]

00:44:48   signs at signs curly braces in square [TS]

00:44:50   brackets fastest dollar sign in the east [TS]

00:44:53   you guys because I typed them so much I [TS]

00:44:55   spent 20 years typing tremendous amount [TS]

00:44:57   of dollar signs and parentheses and that [TS]

00:44:59   signs in curly braces and despite the [TS]

00:45:02   fact that I'm only in 79 anymore but [TS]

00:45:04   it's not fast in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:45:05   things I can also type without looking [TS]

00:45:08   at the keyboard and words just coming up [TS]

00:45:10   in code just comes out very often that [TS]

00:45:11   will just mean you're staring at the [TS]

00:45:12   screen and code is just coming out and [TS]

00:45:14   not just that I'm going to the air [TS]

00:45:16   because I type incorrectly I'm going to [TS]

00:45:18   the arrow keys home and my hands are all [TS]

00:45:21   over that keyboard and I'm just looking [TS]

00:45:22   at the screen I'm selecting you know [TS]

00:45:24   command option shift up/down arrow [TS]

00:45:27   selecting text cut pasting you know like [TS]

00:45:29   get in the zone I'm not fast when I'm [TS]

00:45:32   doing it but it's not as if I'm staring [TS]

00:45:33   the keyboard you know hunting and [TS]

00:45:35   pecking yeah [TS]

00:45:36   all right Marco tell me how much faster [TS]

00:45:39   you were than the two of us [TS]

00:45:40   so my first test just cold was 91 words [TS]

00:45:45   for a minute it was not that accurate [TS]

00:45:47   like basically I got slowed down a lot [TS]

00:45:50   if I ever made any mistakes because like [TS]

00:45:52   John like if a passage was written in a [TS]

00:45:54   way that I wouldn't write it it would [TS]

00:45:56   kind of trip me up a little bit I'd like [TS]

00:45:57   go back like wait a minute like that [TS]

00:45:59   didn't make sense we're like if it was [TS]

00:46:00   something that flowed the way I would [TS]

00:46:02   write something I was way faster so I [TS]

00:46:06   took a second test a few minutes later [TS]

00:46:08   at 1:25 then I got prompted for that [TS]

00:46:12   human qualifier thing that that one was [TS]

00:46:14   then it took two more I got 116 and 122 [TS]

00:46:17   so it's kind of all over the place but I [TS]

00:46:21   was the draw yeah it seems like me and [TS]

00:46:23   you were in the same range yeah [TS]

00:46:26   you guys are even you had that you had [TS]

00:46:28   the correct mistakes right I've never [TS]

00:46:29   never quite clear on that you weren't [TS]

00:46:31   allowed to just blindly continue on [TS]

00:46:32   right because I've lost a lot of time [TS]

00:46:34   realizing that I had missed a comma or [TS]

00:46:36   something like that and then having to [TS]

00:46:38   like backspace and make sure I'm getting [TS]

00:46:40   the right thing that I really ate up my [TS]

00:46:43   time the other thing is like typing [TS]

00:46:44   typing speed tests are fun little thing [TS]

00:46:47   like this but I don't really I don't get [TS]

00:46:49   a lot of value out of this because like [TS]

00:46:51   there's very little time that I'm at my [TS]

00:46:53   computer that I am typing at full blast [TS]

00:46:55   for more than a few seconds because like [TS]

00:46:58   I'm not like transcribing things or or [TS]

00:47:01   like spewing out tons of paragraphs that [TS]

00:47:04   that's the thing about these tasks [TS]

00:47:05   they're asking you to transcribe which [TS]

00:47:08   is something I never do on a computer [TS]

00:47:09   and find incredibly tedious I'm always [TS]

00:47:11   either writing words from my brain or [TS]

00:47:12   writing code from my brain I'm never [TS]

00:47:14   transcribing like so it is actually a [TS]

00:47:17   very foreign skill for me for me to be [TS]

00:47:19   typing something some words but that I'm [TS]

00:47:21   reading off the screen like that's what [TS]

00:47:23   copy and paste or for I'm a strong [TS]

00:47:25   strong proponent of copy and paste that [TS]

00:47:28   may give my few nuggets of copy and [TS]

00:47:30   paste advice for the people as they [TS]

00:47:31   already gave Rowling some these never [TS]

00:47:33   type the process ID because you're just [TS]

00:47:35   asking to kill the Royal if you like [TS]

00:47:37   route on a system and you want to kill a [TS]

00:47:39   process ID never type it no I just ran [TS]

00:47:41   PS let me just transcribe that process [TS]

00:47:43   ID you know you only have to like he'll [TS]

00:47:47   kill the process ID belonging to some [TS]

00:47:50   kernel thing to like halt your entire [TS]

00:47:53   machine like you'll have to do that once [TS]

00:47:55   you just just always copy and paste it [TS]

00:47:57   always copy and paste any any piece of [TS]

00:47:59   information you're you're entering like [TS]

00:48:01   email addresses or the type of thing [TS]

00:48:04   that's authentication information copy [TS]

00:48:05   and paste it's obviously not passwords [TS]

00:48:07   because you shouldn't be copying and [TS]

00:48:08   pasting those but everything else copy [TS]

00:48:10   and pasting code variable names copy and [TS]

00:48:12   paste it the way you can tell if you [TS]

00:48:13   correctly using copying places if you [TS]

00:48:15   initially misspelled the variable it [TS]

00:48:17   should be misspelled consistently [TS]

00:48:18   through your entire file because you [TS]

00:48:19   never typed it again through the [TS]

00:48:20   auto-completed or copy and pasted it [TS]

00:48:22   from elsewhere so copying base is your [TS]

00:48:24   friend and I feel that people who are [TS]

00:48:27   really fast type that's resist that was [TS]

00:48:30   like I can retype it faster than I can [TS]

00:48:31   copy and paste it you probably can you [TS]

00:48:33   can also accidentally type it the wrong [TS]

00:48:35   way because there's nothing's gonna [TS]

00:48:36   highlight read for you like it doesn't [TS]

00:48:38   lose typing des so [TS]

00:48:39   what we've learned today is if you want [TS]

00:48:42   us to do something stupid just swear [TS]

00:48:44   that you'll donate a hundred dollars to [TS]

00:48:45   charity and we never defined which [TS]

00:48:47   charity somebody put the shownotes [TS]

00:48:49   st. Jude I am totally fine with that I [TS]

00:48:52   would also like to pitch as an option [TS]

00:48:53   the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence [TS]

00:48:55   which seems to be a pretty pertinent [TS]

00:48:57   thing to donate a little money to these [TS]

00:48:59   days or maybe by Yuriko relief efforts [TS]

00:49:01   or Puerto Rico relief efforts so [TS]

00:49:03   actually so yeah how about we'll go with [TS]

00:49:04   those three Mike Bolton take your pick [TS]

00:49:07   amongst whatever one of those three you [TS]

00:49:09   would like to donate to and I will put [TS]

00:49:12   at least me on the spot and say send me [TS]

00:49:14   a receipt and I'll match it me to no [TS]

00:49:17   pressure Johnny anyway I'll move on so [TS]

00:49:19   you don't have to answer our charity [TS]

00:49:26   stuff towards the end of the year but no [TS]

00:49:27   problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

00:49:31   hollow pillow at hollow pillow comm [TS]

00:49:33   slash a teepee hello makes these pretty [TS]

00:49:37   cool buckwheat hull pillows so this is [TS]

00:49:40   totally different from regular pillows [TS]

00:49:42   that are filled with some kind of like [TS]

00:49:43   soft springy material it's almost like a [TS]

00:49:46   giant bean bag full of buckwheat hulls [TS]

00:49:48   so it supports your head and neck [TS]

00:49:51   however you set it up and it kind of [TS]

00:49:53   just stays there it doesn't like slowly [TS]

00:49:54   collapse over the course of the night or [TS]

00:49:56   squish around it just stays where you [TS]

00:49:59   put it it's also really cool like it [TS]

00:50:02   helps you keep cool at night it doesn't [TS]

00:50:04   get hot the way most pillow Phil does [TS]

00:50:06   and so it is by far in my opinion they [TS]

00:50:09   sent me a couple and it is by far the [TS]

00:50:12   coolest feeling pillow I have ever used [TS]

00:50:14   I loved that part of it it's really nice [TS]

00:50:16   you can also add and remove buckwheat [TS]

00:50:19   holes as you see fit so like if you if [TS]

00:50:21   it's a little bit too big for you you [TS]

00:50:23   want like a smaller or kind of looser [TS]

00:50:25   filled pillow you can just unzip the [TS]

00:50:27   side and pour some out or if you want [TS]

00:50:30   more or if you want to kind of [TS]

00:50:31   rejuvenate an old hollow pillow over [TS]

00:50:33   time you can go to the website and just [TS]

00:50:34   order more fill and just dump it in it's [TS]

00:50:37   kind of amazing people have been [TS]

00:50:39   sleeping on buckwheat pillows for [TS]

00:50:41   centuries they've been used extensively [TS]

00:50:43   in Japan and they remain relatively [TS]

00:50:45   popular to this day and its really a [TS]

00:50:47   more natural way to sleep because what [TS]

00:50:49   are you laying your head on every night [TS]

00:50:50   perhaps it's you know a bag of bird [TS]

00:50:52   feathers so [TS]

00:50:53   or sometimes they're petroleum-based [TS]

00:50:55   foams that's no good hello is made in [TS]

00:50:57   the USA with quality construction and [TS]

00:51:00   quality buckwheat hulls and materials [TS]

00:51:02   they have certified organic cotton cases [TS]

00:51:04   that's cut and sewn for durability and [TS]

00:51:06   the buckwheat is grown and milled in the [TS]

00:51:08   United States so here's the deal you can [TS]

00:51:10   sleep on a hollow pillow for 60 nights [TS]

00:51:13   if it isn't for you just send it back [TS]

00:51:15   and it'll give you a refund go to hollow [TS]

00:51:17   pillow comm / ATP if you want to get [TS]

00:51:20   more than one you can get a discount of [TS]

00:51:22   up to 20 dollars per pillow depending on [TS]

00:51:23   the size and every order comes with fast [TS]

00:51:25   and free shipping and one percent of all [TS]

00:51:29   profits are donated to the Nature [TS]

00:51:30   Conservancy [TS]

00:51:31   so check out hollow today at hollow [TS]

00:51:33   pillow comm / ATP thank you so much to [TS]

00:51:37   hollow it for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:51:38   [Music] [TS]

00:51:41   alright so this is the portion of the [TS]

00:51:44   show where in I take a little power [TS]

00:51:46   snooze tell me about the new Amazon echo [TS]

00:51:48   stuff and I say I'm gonna take a power [TS]

00:51:51   sneeze because I bet you if I had an [TS]

00:51:53   echo I would really like it but because [TS]

00:51:54   I've never experienced it I don't really [TS]

00:51:57   care but there's new echo news and [TS]

00:52:00   there's new Sonos news as well so one of [TS]

00:52:03   you take it away tell me what's going on [TS]

00:52:05   alright so basically Amazon held like [TS]

00:52:08   the secret event really at the event the [TS]

00:52:10   existence of the event itself was [TS]

00:52:11   embargoed which is hilarious the other [TS]

00:52:14   day and they they announced a whole new [TS]

00:52:17   line of echo products which is pretty [TS]

00:52:19   cool you know I mean I've been a big fan [TS]

00:52:20   of the echo not since it came out but [TS]

00:52:24   since our friends got one and I saw it [TS]

00:52:27   and used it myself at their house which [TS]

00:52:29   is a big important distinction here for [TS]

00:52:32   any kind of echo announcement when the [TS]

00:52:34   echo first came out it came kind of out [TS]

00:52:36   of nowhere and it had this really weird [TS]

00:52:38   creepy promo video on Amazon site and we [TS]

00:52:41   all the entire tech world relentlessly [TS]

00:52:43   made fun of them for it and because it [TS]

00:52:46   was it really did seem like the [TS]

00:52:48   creepiest thing advertised and promoted [TS]

00:52:50   in the creepiest way and it seemed like [TS]

00:52:54   you know oh another crazy thing from the [TS]

00:52:55   company that brought you the fire phone [TS]

00:52:56   it turned out that the that it was [TS]

00:52:59   actually really awesome and and that [TS]

00:53:01   that the echo ends up being surprisingly [TS]

00:53:03   useful and [TS]

00:53:05   and just fun and very satisfying to have [TS]

00:53:08   in our houses and as a result over the [TS]

00:53:11   last couple years since I think came out [TS]

00:53:13   two years ago maybe even three but as a [TS]

00:53:16   result in the last couple years many [TS]

00:53:18   people around these parts have gotten [TS]

00:53:20   them and and they're quite fun last [TS]

00:53:23   Christmas I know many of us gave them as [TS]

00:53:25   gifts to family and stuff and only great [TS]

00:53:28   things have you know reviews from family [TS]

00:53:29   and everything about the echoes so very [TS]

00:53:32   good product line however Amazon also [TS]

00:53:35   releases a whole bunch of garbage like [TS]

00:53:37   that they release a whole bunch of weird [TS]

00:53:39   products they are kind of taking the [TS]

00:53:41   like you know spaghetti against the wall [TS]

00:53:43   approach to new echo hardware so they [TS]

00:53:48   have all sorts of crazy things they [TS]

00:53:49   launched the echo show which is the [TS]

00:53:51   weird ugly thing with the screen they [TS]

00:53:54   launched the echo look the weird bedroom [TS]

00:53:55   camera we're supposed to take pictures [TS]

00:53:57   of yourself getting dressed every day [TS]

00:53:58   and those kind of fell on their face I [TS]

00:54:01   don't know a lot of people who really [TS]

00:54:02   enjoy those so you kind of don't know [TS]

00:54:07   when Amazon announces something new in [TS]

00:54:09   the echo world the initial reaction to [TS]

00:54:13   things has very little bearing and the [TS]

00:54:16   initial appearance of things really has [TS]

00:54:18   very little bearing on how good they'll [TS]

00:54:20   end up being and how much fun of liking [TS]

00:54:22   them or how you know how well they will [TS]

00:54:24   sell so Amazon announced a whole bunch [TS]

00:54:27   of new echo stuff the other day and so [TS]

00:54:29   now there is they kind of they finally [TS]

00:54:32   revised the core product line there is [TS]

00:54:35   finally a second generation of the the [TS]

00:54:38   tall cylinder version of the echo that [TS]

00:54:40   used to be the only version of the echo [TS]

00:54:41   there is now a kind of shorter stubbier [TS]

00:54:45   optionally cloth-covered cylinder and it [TS]

00:54:48   looks almost like a tiny home pod and [TS]

00:54:51   now there's also this little alarm clock [TS]

00:54:53   thing with a circular screen that [TS]

00:54:56   considering your nightstand but also has [TS]

00:54:57   a camera so it's kind of like a mini [TS]

00:54:59   echo show that can also be an alarm [TS]

00:55:01   clock which is kind of interesting and [TS]

00:55:04   well there's a whole bunch right phone [TS]

00:55:11   calls it's like a it's like a bridge to [TS]

00:55:13   your landlines that you can make calls [TS]

00:55:15   using your echo that are routed over [TS]

00:55:17   your hard wired LAN [TS]

00:55:18   if you have them if you actually have a [TS]

00:55:20   landline that's I think that's gonna go [TS]

00:55:24   down into the weird category they were [TS]

00:55:26   probably never gonna hear about again [TS]

00:55:27   but I'm sure somebody will use it got [TS]

00:55:28   the fire TV 4k right yeah and the new [TS]

00:55:31   stick that hangs diagonally off your TV [TS]

00:55:35   so so this is these are very different [TS]

00:55:37   things I mean so the the fire TVs I [TS]

00:55:39   don't know much about the fire TV world [TS]

00:55:41   I bought a fire TV box like two years [TS]

00:55:43   ago didn't really care for its UI at all [TS]

00:55:47   so I ended up just selling it do you [TS]

00:55:49   know do you use them in all John I [TS]

00:55:51   forget no I've seen it my friend who has [TS]

00:55:53   them and I looked at them they're not [TS]

00:55:55   bad like you know the UI is very Amazon [TS]

00:55:58   II but the performance is OK the remote [TS]

00:56:00   is better than apples like it is it well [TS]

00:56:03   that's right it is very similar to the [TS]

00:56:05   old one and it's got like a ring on it [TS]

00:56:07   but at least my recollection of the old [TS]

00:56:09   fire TV thing it's not flat on the [TS]

00:56:11   bottom it's more like shaped like a [TS]

00:56:13   triangle so it actually sits in your [TS]

00:56:14   hand a little bit like an actual remote [TS]

00:56:15   right and it doesn't have a touchpad on [TS]

00:56:18   the whole top of the thing anyway it's [TS]

00:56:21   fine it has always been cheaper than the [TS]

00:56:25   Apple TV and I would say like almost as [TS]

00:56:27   good but of course you can't watch [TS]

00:56:29   iTunes content on it so it was never [TS]

00:56:31   anything that I was gonna get even maybe [TS]

00:56:32   if you did 24 Hertz output I would have [TS]

00:56:34   considered it to run like Plex on it or [TS]

00:56:36   whatever but it doesn't seem like it [TS]

00:56:38   never seemed like a speed demon [TS]

00:56:39   certainly the Apple TV 4k feels faster [TS]

00:56:42   the new one doesn't support Dolby vision [TS]

00:56:46   which is kind of a shame but maybe [TS]

00:56:48   they'll add that after the fact it does [TS]

00:56:51   support Dolby Atmos which Apple TV 4k [TS]

00:56:54   doesn't but I feel but I believe 4k is [TS]

00:56:57   supposed to get that support but [TS]

00:56:59   remember this is $100 cheaper than the [TS]

00:57:01   Apple TV 4k it's not just like $15 [TS]

00:57:04   cheaper it's significantly cheaper the [TS]

00:57:06   form factor of what Mark was alluding to [TS]

00:57:08   before that it dangles off your TV it is [TS]

00:57:10   like an HDMI connector a ribbon cable [TS]

00:57:13   and then a box hanging from its corner [TS]

00:57:16   off of the ribbon cable on the ribbon [TS]

00:57:17   cable is like three inches long so this [TS]

00:57:20   is not a box you put in your [TS]

00:57:21   entertainment center it is a thing that [TS]

00:57:24   you hang off the back of your TV which [TS]

00:57:26   is kind of interesting I have actually [TS]

00:57:27   have a Google what is it called the [TS]

00:57:30   Google thing that hangs off the back [TS]

00:57:32   yard [TS]

00:57:32   the chromecast right the hang off your [TS]

00:57:35   back of the back of your TV you think [TS]

00:57:37   it's neat it's like an acknowledgment [TS]

00:57:38   that we can make this thing so small [TS]

00:57:40   there's no reason it has to be in your [TS]

00:57:41   entertainment center but it's also not [TS]

00:57:44   meet in the neat and tidy sense and that [TS]

00:57:47   you have this little thing hanging off [TS]

00:57:48   your TV and just always hangs awkwardly [TS]

00:57:50   and you're hoping that no one has a view [TS]

00:57:53   of that television like what if your [TS]

00:57:54   television is in a place where someone [TS]

00:57:55   walking through the room can see the [TS]

00:57:56   side of it now you get this thing [TS]

00:57:58   hanging off it it's just it's just not [TS]

00:57:59   tidy it's unseemly it's like a wart like [TS]

00:58:02   purposely adding a wart to your thing [TS]

00:58:04   never mind that you know the idea of [TS]

00:58:06   hanging even a small amount of weight [TS]

00:58:07   off of the end of your HDMI port I [TS]

00:58:09   suppose it's probably weighs less than a [TS]

00:58:11   very long cord but either way thumbs [TS]

00:58:13   down on that form factor but as far as [TS]

00:58:16   you know people who don't have any [TS]

00:58:19   investment at all in the iTunes world [TS]

00:58:22   this vs. Roku and stuff they're all [TS]

00:58:26   reasonable choices I would have no [TS]

00:58:27   problem recommending a fire TV for [TS]

00:58:28   someone who wants to have to look at [TS]

00:58:31   Amazon content and to have access to be [TS]

00:58:35   able to watch YouTube on a TV and [TS]

00:58:36   Netflix if they happen to have one of [TS]

00:58:39   the televisions it doesn't have that [TS]

00:58:40   crap all built in or if they have a [TS]

00:58:42   television where that's all built in but [TS]

00:58:44   the builds and apps are terrible the [TS]

00:58:45   fire TV apps are better than the [TS]

00:58:47   built-in ones on most televisions so [TS]

00:58:49   it's an okay product I don't think it'll [TS]

00:58:51   change things up I think it's just you [TS]

00:58:53   know status quo I have a fire TV stick I [TS]

00:58:56   think it's the original generation and I [TS]

00:58:59   hadn't used it in probably a year and [TS]

00:59:03   then had wanted to get it like all [TS]

00:59:05   updated and whatnot before we went to [TS]

00:59:06   one to the beach couple months back and [TS]

00:59:08   doing that update took like a day [TS]

00:59:11   because I had to do an update wait [TS]

00:59:13   reboot do an update wait reboot it was [TS]

00:59:15   like updating windows for goodness sakes [TS]

00:59:17   but the new revamped UI that came with [TS]

00:59:20   it was very nice and as a portable thing [TS]

00:59:24   that that's easy to travel with I love [TS]

00:59:26   my fire TV stick as something that's an [TS]

00:59:28   alternative to say an Apple TV no thank [TS]

00:59:31   you [TS]

00:59:31   I'd much rather have an Apple TV but the [TS]

00:59:34   user interface is fine it got a lot [TS]

00:59:35   better with this revamp that happened [TS]

00:59:36   sometime in the last 12 months and it's [TS]

00:59:39   fast enough to do the sorts of things I [TS]

00:59:41   want to do but it is if I was living [TS]

00:59:44   with it everyday like especially your [TS]

00:59:45   situation Marco [TS]

00:59:46   you're all of your TV consumption [TS]

00:59:48   happens via some sort of box I would not [TS]

00:59:51   recommend if I our TV stick now that is [TS]

00:59:53   very different than than the 4k which [TS]

00:59:55   presumably is considerably faster better [TS]

00:59:56   etc but in terms of UI it's fine [TS]

00:59:56   etc but in terms of UI it's fine [TS]

01:00:00   yeah so anyway the whole amazon firetv [TS]

01:00:03   thing is not an area that i play in but [TS]

01:00:07   the echo very much is and so all of [TS]

01:00:10   these new echoes I'm really glad that [TS]

01:00:13   app that Amazon is finally doing more [TS]

01:00:16   with like just the base model echo like [TS]

01:00:18   not just making new weird accessory [TS]

01:00:21   versions and different things are [TS]

01:00:22   different that serve different roles but [TS]

01:00:24   also just finally revving the main [TS]

01:00:26   speaker the main problem the echo has [TS]

01:00:29   always had for me is well it's not the [TS]

01:00:33   most attractive thing in the world but [TS]

01:00:35   but the main problem for me has always [TS]

01:00:36   been that it doesn't sound very good [TS]

01:00:38   like the sound it doesn't get that loud [TS]

01:00:40   and the sound quality is not very good [TS]

01:00:43   it because it really is just it's it's [TS]

01:00:45   one speaker pointed downwards above a [TS]

01:00:49   second driver for being a woofer it's [TS]

01:00:51   like a single tweeter and single woofer [TS]

01:00:53   they point down and they don't sound [TS]

01:00:56   very good the microphones have always [TS]

01:00:58   been excellent it doesn't seem to have [TS]

01:01:00   trouble hearing me compare to anything [TS]

01:01:01   else but the sound quality is just [TS]

01:01:04   really poor and it really says a lot [TS]

01:01:07   about how convenient the echo is and how [TS]

01:01:10   compelling the whole package is that we [TS]

01:01:14   listen to by like with the exception of [TS]

01:01:16   like my desk with headphones like while [TS]

01:01:19   I'm working while we're out in the house [TS]

01:01:21   we listen to far more music on the echo [TS]

01:01:24   even though it sounds like crap than any [TS]

01:01:27   other mechanism by which we have to play [TS]

01:01:29   music and that includes like we have a [TS]

01:01:32   whole like nice speaker setup with an [TS]

01:01:34   Apple TV that could feed it through [TS]

01:01:35   airplay if we wanted to or the Apple TV [TS]

01:01:39   playing music itself we have Sonos which [TS]

01:01:42   we'll get to and we never use these [TS]

01:01:44   things to play music comparably speaking [TS]

01:01:46   because the echo is just so much more [TS]

01:01:48   convenient to just say hey name a thing [TS]

01:01:50   you know play fish and that's it or you [TS]

01:01:53   know play a song from the mind these are [TS]

01:01:54   like it's just really really nice and [TS]

01:01:56   compelling to use that so much so that [TS]

01:01:57   we've been willing to overlook the [TS]

01:02:00   relatively poor sound quality because [TS]

01:02:03   most people simply don't care and an [TS]

01:02:05   even I who do care I'd rather just have [TS]

01:02:07   it be easy then to have to set up some [TS]

01:02:09   fiddly thing on a better a better nice [TS]

01:02:11   system to echo that ha ha yeah home but [TS]

01:02:16   it's the same thing it's got a terrible [TS]

01:02:17   speaker in it like it's probably worse [TS]

01:02:18   than the echo it's so you know the [TS]

01:02:20   Google home is actually even smaller [TS]

01:02:21   than the big echo and I think probably [TS]

01:02:24   just got one terrible speaker in there [TS]

01:02:25   does not sound good and yet when my [TS]

01:02:28   daughter has her friends over all they [TS]

01:02:30   do is that's I think to play music like [TS]

01:02:31   that is their favorite activity more [TS]

01:02:33   music has been played on that thing than [TS]

01:02:35   any other device in our house easily and [TS]

01:02:37   that's like you know because again we [TS]

01:02:39   have I've got the my television speakers [TS]

01:02:42   and you could play things through the [TS]

01:02:43   Apple TV on the television or through [TS]

01:02:44   the receiver on the television without [TS]

01:02:46   even turning the television on but they [TS]

01:02:48   just they just wanted to talk to the [TS]

01:02:49   thing and make it play songs because [TS]

01:02:51   like what other you know they just say [TS]

01:02:54   words in the air speculatively and it [TS]

01:02:57   finds the song that they want and plays [TS]

01:02:59   it and they love it even though it [TS]

01:03:01   sounds like crap [TS]

01:03:03   and I will say to like I I have been [TS]

01:03:06   trying to give Siri more chances in my [TS]

01:03:09   life because everyone keeps saying how [TS]

01:03:11   good it is how good it's getting how [TS]

01:03:13   it's so much better than it used to be [TS]

01:03:14   and so I have tried in many occasions [TS]

01:03:17   recently to have Siri play me music as [TS]

01:03:20   well [TS]

01:03:20   to just kind of get a sense you know so [TS]

01:03:22   I'll issue it's similar queries like you [TS]

01:03:25   know play songs by cake or whatever like [TS]

01:03:27   I out issue it a fairly simple music [TS]

01:03:30   query and Siri gets it right about a [TS]

01:03:34   quarter of the time and that's our it's [TS]

01:03:37   really frustrating whereas the echo gets [TS]

01:03:40   it right almost every time it's really [TS]

01:03:43   quite shocking how different the two are [TS]

01:03:46   in reliability and speed and just the [TS]

01:03:49   the the sensibility of responses for [TS]

01:03:53   things like music yeah similarly Google [TS]

01:03:55   home like my daughter and her friends [TS]

01:03:57   say things like play song whatever but [TS]

01:04:00   the one with whatever in it like there [TS]

01:04:02   are variants of songs or multiple [TS]

01:04:04   artists covered them and they will say a [TS]

01:04:05   sentence describing the song they want [TS]

01:04:07   and it will find the thing for them and [TS]

01:04:09   not only that it will say okay I found [TS]

01:04:11   blah blah blah featuring blah blah blah [TS]

01:04:13   like I don't know if it's just doing [TS]

01:04:15   fuzzy word matching of finding like song [TS]

01:04:18   title plus the name of the person they [TS]

01:04:20   said but they ramble on these whole [TS]

01:04:22   sentences and I'm [TS]

01:04:23   I'm amazed it finds the song that they [TS]

01:04:26   were asking about when I don't think a [TS]

01:04:28   human could have found it a Google [TS]

01:04:30   search literally doing a Google search [TS]

01:04:32   and taking the first hit but the fact [TS]

01:04:34   that it works is all is magic like and [TS]

01:04:36   saying that the Siri it would just be [TS]

01:04:38   this word salad of misheard you know you [TS]

01:04:41   know it doesn't you say stuff and [TS]

01:04:42   doesn't understand what you say it would [TS]

01:04:43   assemble that and then it would be like [TS]

01:04:45   I'm sorry I can't help with that because [TS]

01:04:47   it doesn't I don't think it has the [TS]

01:04:49   fallback of can't make heads or tails [TS]

01:04:51   this throat into the magic that is [TS]

01:04:53   Google and try the number one hit yeah [TS]

01:04:55   exactly [TS]

01:04:56   well and I mean and these systems like [TS]

01:04:58   like the the Amazon assistant I don't [TS]

01:05:02   know if Google does this to it probably [TS]

01:05:03   does but you can it even does lyrics [TS]

01:05:05   search you can say play the song that [TS]

01:05:07   goes blah and it will it will search for [TS]

01:05:09   those lyrics and it's like it's just [TS]

01:05:11   incredible how good it is and honestly [TS]

01:05:15   one of the reasons why I am not that [TS]

01:05:18   excited about the home pod is that I [TS]

01:05:21   know like just judging on on how Siri [TS]

01:05:25   does if you have an iPhone or an iPad or [TS]

01:05:27   an Apple TV giving it these same queries [TS]

01:05:30   I know that these other systems going to [TS]

01:05:31   be better than it in in the image in [TS]

01:05:33   that regard at least you go do the [TS]

01:05:37   chained chaining the assistance to talk [TS]

01:05:40   to each other so felt like you know [TS]

01:05:43   dingus tell the other dingus to play [TS]

01:05:44   songs by whatever you know this big [TS]

01:05:47   chain get let the smart ones figure out [TS]

01:05:49   what song you want and convey to the one [TS]

01:05:51   with a good speaker to play it now so [TS]

01:05:54   that is actually a great segue into [TS]

01:05:58   thanks John [TS]

01:06:00   so today you know we've had a couple [TS]

01:06:02   days to digest this echo stuff but today [TS]

01:06:05   there was a Sonos announcement so nose [TS]

01:06:10   has has made wonderful sounding speakers [TS]

01:06:14   and and very like they're basically [TS]

01:06:16   products that are designed to be sold in [TS]

01:06:20   Apple stores it's like I know they [TS]

01:06:22   weren't officially but like they are [TS]

01:06:24   really really like high-end speakers [TS]

01:06:27   well they're they're high-priced [TS]

01:06:30   speakers that sound pretty good and and [TS]

01:06:33   that had they don't sound like amazing [TS]

01:06:36   incredible like compared to [TS]

01:06:37   like high-end audiophile speakers but [TS]

01:06:39   for consumer for consumer grade I guess [TS]

01:06:43   gear they sound very good and you know [TS]

01:06:47   compared to all these other like you [TS]

01:06:49   know smart cylinders they sound great [TS]

01:06:51   and Sonos has been around for a very [TS]

01:06:54   long time and they've they have focused [TS]

01:06:56   mainly on multi-room audio and and and [TS]

01:06:59   this kind of like library management of [TS]

01:07:01   things and in fact much of the benefit [TS]

01:07:03   of airplay to is what sone has have been [TS]

01:07:05   doing all this time we're basically like [TS]

01:07:07   it it hands off the playback to the [TS]

01:07:10   speaker itself so like you're not just [TS]

01:07:12   playing a constant stream from the phone [TS]

01:07:15   like you're telling the speaker here's [TS]

01:07:17   this file play it or here's the next you [TS]

01:07:20   know 15 minutes of audio play it or go [TS]

01:07:22   to this URL and just play what you find [TS]

01:07:24   there because they're all networked [TS]

01:07:25   which is nice it has lots of benefits [TS]

01:07:27   like you know if you if you like if one [TS]

01:07:29   person like leaves the house with the [TS]

01:07:31   phone that was controlling it the music [TS]

01:07:32   doesn't stop and it doesn't skip if you [TS]

01:07:35   like you know bend over and your your [TS]

01:07:37   waste is blocking your pocket or [TS]

01:07:39   something I like it's a really nice [TS]

01:07:41   architecture and it also makes things [TS]

01:07:43   like multi-room audio significantly [TS]

01:07:45   easier to do and so anyway so one has [TS]

01:07:48   had this for years and years and years [TS]

01:07:49   and and they really have owned the like [TS]

01:07:51   high-end multi-room audio market the [TS]

01:07:55   main problem with Sonos in recent years [TS]

01:07:58   is that when the echo came out [TS]

01:08:00   everyone's like well it's a lot easier [TS]

01:08:02   used it means playing stuff through [TS]

01:08:04   sonís is cumbersome because their app [TS]

01:08:06   is really quite poor it's it's [TS]

01:08:08   unintuitive it's incredibly complicated [TS]

01:08:10   because it can do so much and it's laid [TS]

01:08:13   out in a not that intuitive way honestly [TS]

01:08:17   it feels like an Android app and I and I [TS]

01:08:19   don't mean much disrespect by that but [TS]

01:08:22   it just feels like it feels like an app [TS]

01:08:24   design by like the windows and Android [TS]

01:08:25   aesthetic and and so it's just very [TS]

01:08:29   cumbersome to play stuff on a sono [TS]

01:08:32   system even though when you finally do [TS]

01:08:34   it sounds great and you can do multi [TS]

01:08:35   room start really easily and stuff like [TS]

01:08:37   that so the echo comes out and it's [TS]

01:08:42   really crappy at sound quality and [TS]

01:08:45   initially doesn't have multi-room audio [TS]

01:08:46   support but it's really really really [TS]

01:08:49   really easy to get to [TS]

01:08:51   playing you can say what you want it [TS]

01:08:53   just starts playing and it turns out [TS]

01:08:54   that's incredibly compelling as we said [TS]

01:08:56   earlier and so many Sonos owners myself [TS]

01:09:00   included our sono stuff has basically [TS]

01:09:03   been gathering dust [TS]

01:09:04   ever since the who came out so today [TS]

01:09:07   Sonos announced that they have partnered [TS]

01:09:10   with Amazon at some seemingly fairly [TS]

01:09:13   deep level and they announced they [TS]

01:09:15   announced a partnership like months ago [TS]

01:09:17   but who knew if any one thing was ever [TS]

01:09:18   to come out of it well now it is they [TS]

01:09:21   now have a version of what used to be [TS]

01:09:24   called the play one speaker their their [TS]

01:09:26   lowest and smallest little like it's [TS]

01:09:28   like a little cube almost speaker [TS]

01:09:30   they now have a version of that that is [TS]

01:09:33   basically also an echo inside of it has [TS]

01:09:37   the little microphone ring up top and a [TS]

01:09:40   couple of extra buttons and now they [TS]

01:09:42   basically have a Sonos echo and they [TS]

01:09:45   also have integration with the echo [TS]

01:09:48   assistant platform so that you can like [TS]

01:09:50   have you can like tell your echoes to [TS]

01:09:52   play things on your Sonos and stuff like [TS]

01:09:54   that like I haven't forgive me I haven't [TS]

01:09:56   looked into too many details on that yet [TS]

01:09:57   because I haven't a time yet because [TS]

01:09:58   it's all they're talking about today so [TS]

01:10:02   some of those some of the finer details [TS]

01:10:04   of this might be wrong or incomplete but [TS]

01:10:06   basically they announced what looks like [TS]

01:10:09   surprisingly deep and comprehensive [TS]

01:10:11   integration between the echo products [TS]

01:10:14   and Sonos products along with this new [TS]

01:10:16   sono speaker that has a built-in echo [TS]

01:10:18   and if this works as they are [TS]

01:10:22   advertising it's gonna be awesome and [TS]

01:10:25   it's actually not that ridiculous of a [TS]

01:10:27   price to like the the the new Sonos one [TS]

01:10:31   which is their their new version of the [TS]

01:10:32   play one speaker is 200 bucks and it's [TS]

01:10:36   it's positioned roughly like market-wise [TS]

01:10:39   roughly where like the tall echo [TS]

01:10:42   cylinder is positioned it's not supposed [TS]

01:10:45   to be a home pod competitor the the home [TS]

01:10:46   Pug competitor is it's kind of supposed [TS]

01:10:48   to be their next one up which they [TS]

01:10:50   haven't updated with with Alexa yet [TS]

01:10:52   sorry with the Amazon assistant so it [TS]

01:10:57   looks like a home pod to me it is a [TS]

01:10:59   single thing with one speaker you know [TS]

01:11:01   with you know one set of speakers in it [TS]

01:11:03   it's about the same size of the home pot [TS]

01:11:04   is it just [TS]

01:11:05   it's like a hundred and something bucks [TS]

01:11:06   cheaper like it seems like a home pod [TS]

01:11:08   competitor to me well it's it's going to [TS]

01:11:10   serve as a home buck competitor [TS]

01:11:12   effectively but one of the reasons why [TS]

01:11:14   Apple when they were doing like price [TS]

01:11:17   comparisons like they position the home [TS]

01:11:19   pot against the Sonos play 3 the next [TS]

01:11:21   speaker up that's more expensive and I [TS]

01:11:23   think part of that is because the play [TS]

01:11:26   one only has one driver or has it's just [TS]

01:11:29   like the echo it has it has the two [TS]

01:11:30   drivers that is just like forming one [TS]

01:11:32   channel whereas the home pod has like [TS]

01:11:34   that didn't the home pot have like [TS]

01:11:35   tweeters in a big circle around the [TS]

01:11:37   whole top of it and maybe and like one [TS]

01:11:39   big Wolfer in the middle or something [TS]

01:11:40   like that but like how does how does [TS]

01:11:42   that change the sound like it's still [TS]

01:11:44   you're not getting stereo out of it [TS]

01:11:45   we've talked about this before about how [TS]

01:11:47   it's doing all the channels through the [TS]

01:11:49   single location so you're not getting [TS]

01:11:50   our right channel a left channel too [TS]

01:11:52   separated by six feet for me to one of [TS]

01:11:53   these devices well it's the when you [TS]

01:11:57   when you only have a single driver set [TS]

01:12:00   pointing in a pointing in one direction [TS]

01:12:01   you can't really do anything with you [TS]

01:12:04   know stereo imaging like it's gonna be [TS]

01:12:05   mono but the home pod is kind of this [TS]

01:12:09   weird hybrid where like because it has [TS]

01:12:11   drivers pointing all around it [TS]

01:12:13   it can do things by like bouncing stuff [TS]

01:12:15   off the walls and everything to try to [TS]

01:12:17   kind of simulate things in different [TS]

01:12:18   directions it actually is firing sound [TS]

01:12:20   in multiple directions whereas the Sonos [TS]

01:12:24   one series only fires it straight ahead [TS]

01:12:27   and the echo fires one set of drivers [TS]

01:12:30   straight down so it kind of has like a [TS]

01:12:33   ring effect but it can't control like [TS]

01:12:35   what goes left what goes right so these [TS]

01:12:38   other things are effectively mono [TS]

01:12:40   whereas the home pod and the higher end [TS]

01:12:44   Sonos models have multiple speakers that [TS]

01:12:46   they could you know adjust interact in [TS]

01:12:49   different ways so I think it's it in [TS]

01:12:52   practice this is a home pod competitor [TS]

01:12:54   in the same way the echos a home pod [TS]

01:12:56   competitor but if you ask Apple [TS]

01:12:58   marketing like what is the home BA [TS]

01:12:59   competing against they're gonna go with [TS]

01:13:00   the higher-end models in part because of [TS]

01:13:02   those technicalities in part because of [TS]

01:13:05   just sheer physical size and in part [TS]

01:13:06   because they're more expensive yeah the [TS]

01:13:08   play 3 looks more like the iPod hi-fi [TS]

01:13:10   like it's rectangular thing yeah so [TS]

01:13:13   anyway this is good I hope I really hope [TS]

01:13:16   this works [TS]

01:13:17   and I hope that it [TS]

01:13:18   smartthings integrating with it so like [TS]

01:13:20   for instance I already have other so no [TS]

01:13:24   speakers I have a few other ones [TS]

01:13:25   throughout the house you know and I can [TS]

01:13:28   I only buy one of these things do I even [TS]

01:13:30   have to buy any of these things or can I [TS]

01:13:32   just have the echos connectivist so [TS]

01:13:33   notices through the apps I think they [TS]

01:13:35   can do that actually but I don't know [TS]

01:13:36   yet so this is I have a lot of research [TS]

01:13:39   to do and and we have a lot of you know [TS]

01:13:41   just no one has actually used this [TS]

01:13:43   device that I don't think that any [TS]

01:13:45   reviews except there was one on wired [TS]

01:13:46   that was kind of not that specific so I [TS]

01:13:50   don't know we'll see but I hope this [TS]

01:13:55   works as well as they're advertising it [TS]

01:13:58   does because if it does this is going to [TS]

01:14:01   be a total game changer in the echo [TS]

01:14:03   market because it will be finally a [TS]

01:14:05   fusion between the good sounding world [TS]

01:14:09   of Sonos and they're really convenient [TS]

01:14:11   world of echo it's gonna be a problem [TS]

01:14:13   for the home planet I think I mean the [TS]

01:14:15   home part is already you know given [TS]

01:14:18   given the home pods price and relatively [TS]

01:14:22   limited apparent capabilities I think [TS]

01:14:25   the home pod is gonna have a hard time [TS]

01:14:27   in the market now I think it's gonna [TS]

01:14:30   have an even harder time than before [TS]

01:14:31   because if this works at all the Sonos [TS]

01:14:35   play:1 is earthís sorry this is the [TS]

01:14:37   Sonos one the new one with the echo [TS]

01:14:38   built in is going to be a very [TS]

01:14:42   compelling alternative for a lot of [TS]

01:14:44   people a lot of people are asking after [TS]

01:14:46   the story came out of wasn't amazon just [TS]

01:14:48   buy some of us they seem to buy [TS]

01:14:49   everybody like this type of integration [TS]

01:14:51   this type of partnership is practically [TS]

01:14:53   unheard of like it's basically someone [TS]

01:14:54   was saying we're never gonna do all this [TS]

01:14:56   stuff than amazon does an amazon [TS]

01:14:58   apparently saying we don't want to build [TS]

01:15:00   a really nice speaker well just well our [TS]

01:15:02   new version of as you noted the new [TS]

01:15:03   verse the new good version of the echo [TS]

01:15:05   didn't really make a lot of progress [TS]

01:15:07   sound well these little Dolby like oh [TS]

01:15:09   we'll make it sound better but they [TS]

01:15:10   didn't change the hardware in a way that [TS]

01:15:12   makes it sound like they are serious [TS]

01:15:14   about audio quality they're just weak [TS]

01:15:15   you know but like so they say okay well [TS]

01:15:18   so unless you do the sound part and we [TS]

01:15:20   will do the software part I'm not [TS]

01:15:22   entirely sure what's in it for Amazon to [TS]

01:15:25   continue that relationship like why why [TS]

01:15:30   not you know those nice prod [TS]

01:15:32   what's that somos is making by selling [TS]

01:15:33   expensive speakers why does it have a [TS]

01:15:35   son want those two like it arguably [TS]

01:15:37   Amazon is providing the majority of the [TS]

01:15:39   value in this arrangement because I [TS]

01:15:41   think it is easier to make a nice [TS]

01:15:44   speaker than it is to make a thing that [TS]

01:15:48   understands words that you say and does [TS]

01:15:49   intelligent things like they've got all [TS]

01:15:51   the backend that is finding that music [TS]

01:15:52   for you and you know playing it back and [TS]

01:15:55   the music subscription service and all [TS]

01:15:56   those other things making a speaker [TS]

01:15:58   compared to that is relatively easy and [TS]

01:15:59   I suppose so noses you know secret sauce [TS]

01:16:01   is the multi-room stuff but anyway there [TS]

01:16:04   seems to be a natural synergy between [TS]

01:16:05   these companies and given the fact that [TS]

01:16:06   Amazon bought things like IMDB and other [TS]

01:16:08   companies that it like seemed like it [TS]

01:16:11   should be or Whole Foods right by like [TS]

01:16:16   that just by Sonos like what are you [TS]

01:16:19   even waiting for it makes me [TS]

01:16:20   uncomfortable as a consumer if I was [TS]

01:16:22   into these type of products to know that [TS]

01:16:24   I'm buying a thing between two companies [TS]

01:16:26   that are you know that are that are [TS]

01:16:28   frenemies right there they're [TS]

01:16:30   competitors but they're also in this [TS]

01:16:33   mutually beneficial arrangement and I [TS]

01:16:36   just it just seems like there's a [TS]

01:16:37   tension there and I'm not sure how that [TS]

01:16:38   that is sustainable so I'm you know not [TS]

01:16:40   that I'm for you know big companies [TS]

01:16:42   buying up all the small companies but [TS]

01:16:44   some has kind of had its chance to [TS]

01:16:46   figure out the you know make something [TS]

01:16:49   that you can talk to and they've [TS]

01:16:51   essentially outsourced it to Amazon so I [TS]

01:16:54   don't know yeah I don't I'm with you I [TS]

01:16:57   don't I don't see why Amazon gets a [TS]

01:17:00   knife out of this deal to make it worth [TS]

01:17:01   it like even like the integration it's [TS]

01:17:03   it's it's such that also like when I [TS]

01:17:06   went to go pre-order the the Sonos one [TS]

01:17:08   today you can't apply it on Amazon thank [TS]

01:17:13   you good bye every other service on [TS]

01:17:15   Amazon but this one you can pre-order [TS]

01:17:17   only on so Knossos website right now [TS]

01:17:18   it's like they couldn't even coordinate [TS]

01:17:20   that can you like order toilet paper [TS]

01:17:22   from there so most one I the way it's [TS]

01:17:25   advertised and the way they the way the [TS]

01:17:27   product page positions it it looks like [TS]

01:17:29   it has full echo integration like or a [TS]

01:17:32   full echo built into it basically so you [TS]

01:17:34   I think you should be able to do [TS]

01:17:36   everything the echo can do so I don't [TS]

01:17:38   it's that's something it's very a lot of [TS]

01:17:41   this will depend on like when we [TS]

01:17:43   actually get these things like does it [TS]

01:17:44   actually do those [TS]

01:17:45   is it actually as good you know what if [TS]

01:17:48   there's other problems like what if the [TS]

01:17:49   microphones aren't as good as I'm not [TS]

01:17:50   real like oh you know like there's [TS]

01:17:52   there's gonna be issues like that but [TS]

01:17:54   the good thing is that like if if this [TS]

01:17:58   integration works the way it appears to [TS]

01:18:00   on all their advertisements and in the [TS]

01:18:01   apps and everything you might not even [TS]

01:18:04   need to buy the Sonos one like it for [TS]

01:18:07   what everyone's saying you can just [TS]

01:18:08   connect your Sonos account in the em in [TS]

01:18:12   the Alexa app and just start sending [TS]

01:18:16   commands to it and you can just start [TS]

01:18:17   controlling them like that's that's kind [TS]

01:18:19   of incredible if that's true and so like [TS]

01:18:21   I can't like I don't this will all [TS]

01:18:24   depend on how well this stuff is [TS]

01:18:25   implemented but yeah basically ask again [TS]

01:18:28   in a couple weeks but I'm really happy [TS]

01:18:30   about this as recently as two months ago [TS]

01:18:35   I was saying that I would be surprised [TS]

01:18:37   if so notice was still in business in a [TS]

01:18:39   year because it seemed like things [TS]

01:18:41   weren't going well for them but this [TS]

01:18:44   could really turn things around for them [TS]

01:18:46   if if this makes a lot of people buy [TS]

01:18:48   more sono stuff and also you know what [TS]

01:18:50   one area that maybe maybe that we're not [TS]

01:18:54   seeing by looking at just the speaker [TS]

01:18:55   like the little portable speaker side of [TS]

01:18:57   this thing one area in which maybe [TS]

01:18:59   Amazon wanted to get in that they [TS]

01:19:02   couldn't easily do themselves is home [TS]

01:19:04   theater so knows in recent years has [TS]

01:19:08   dramatically gotten into the home [TS]

01:19:10   theater business with their soundbar [TS]

01:19:12   products and then later on like the the [TS]

01:19:15   subwoofer that played they got the play [TS]

01:19:17   bass in the subwoofer their names are a [TS]

01:19:19   little confusing so I forget which is [TS]

01:19:20   which but they launched their first [TS]

01:19:22   sound bar a couple years back and I [TS]

01:19:25   think they have a second one I don't [TS]

01:19:27   even know anymore but I think those [TS]

01:19:29   actually sell really well and so notice [TS]

01:19:31   I think that's pretty well in the in the [TS]

01:19:33   sound bar business now so if Amazon [TS]

01:19:36   wanted to get more like echo music [TS]

01:19:39   playback into home theater systems maybe [TS]

01:19:42   this is what they get out of this deal [TS]

01:19:43   maybe they get access to this market of [TS]

01:19:45   high-end home theater stuff that that [TS]

01:19:48   the the echo hardware being this kind of [TS]

01:19:51   like you know inexpensive kind of crappy [TS]

01:19:53   audio products we're probably never [TS]

01:19:55   going to get into that business we our [TS]

01:19:58   sponsor this week bike [TS]

01:19:59   Esper dive deeper into the science [TS]

01:20:01   behind the perfect mattress and get $50 [TS]

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01:20:10   about the science behind a mattress but [TS]

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01:20:42   they know that if you're gonna buy a [TS]

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01:20:45   third of your life sleeping on it [TS]

01:20:46   you can't just try it for a few minutes [TS]

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01:20:50   on it for a while so they offer a 100 [TS]

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01:21:04   and they'll give you a full refund so [TS]

01:21:06   it's completely risk-free well there [TS]

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01:21:20   to Casper comm slash ATP you can dive [TS]

01:21:23   deeper into the science behind the [TS]

01:21:25   perfect mattress and if you use code ATP [TS]

01:21:27   you can get $50 towards any mattress [TS]

01:21:29   purchase terms and conditions do apply [TS]

01:21:31   thank you so much to Casper for [TS]

01:21:33   sponsoring our show all right come back [TS]

01:21:39   ready talk about alarm clocks Casey I am [TS]

01:21:43   so excited to talk about alarm clocks [TS]

01:21:45   tell me more this is just a coincidence [TS]

01:21:48   I did not have any inside information [TS]

01:21:50   about Amazon's product announcements but [TS]

01:21:54   a show or two ago I mentioned offhand [TS]

01:21:57   how I was looking for something to [TS]

01:21:59   replace my you know clock radio from the [TS]

01:22:01   80s they would just perform one function [TS]

01:22:03   that wouldn't be you know I wasn't going [TS]

01:22:06   to use my iOS devices would potentially [TS]

01:22:08   travel around the house and after [TS]

01:22:09   remembered [TS]

01:22:10   put away a bedside and plug-in just want [TS]

01:22:12   something I was always on my bedside [TS]

01:22:13   that then I could look at and always [TS]

01:22:15   showed me the time and then had an alarm [TS]

01:22:17   on it and that's about it and what [TS]

01:22:20   Amazon came out with is this little ball [TS]

01:22:22   thing it's like the Amazon echo show and [TS]

01:22:25   that it's like a screen and it shows you [TS]

01:22:28   the weather and tells you what time it [TS]

01:22:29   is and I guess shows you new stories [TS]

01:22:31   that you don't want to see in a noisy [TS]

01:22:32   with all the other stuff like that but [TS]

01:22:34   anyway it's got a circular screen on it [TS]

01:22:35   and it's 130 bucks and it's basically a [TS]

01:22:39   smart dedicated looks like an alarm [TS]

01:22:43   clock thing and a lot of people are [TS]

01:22:45   saying hey is what you're asking for [TS]

01:22:47   someone probably not Apple to make some [TS]

01:22:49   kind of dedicated alarm clock electronic [TS]

01:22:52   component thing and guess what Amazon [TS]

01:22:53   did it because Jason Snow I think his [TS]

01:22:57   article about it god bless Amazon with [TS]

01:22:59   her at every single form factoring [TS]

01:23:01   seeing what people might buy hey that's [TS]

01:23:03   the thing that Amazon does they they [TS]

01:23:04   just make a bunch of crap and you know [TS]

01:23:06   maybe people like this maybe they won't [TS]

01:23:08   we'll just keep trying it's cute I'll [TS]

01:23:12   give it that but and you know hundred [TS]

01:23:14   thirty dollars is kind of ridiculous but [TS]

01:23:17   the thing that makes it makes me pretty [TS]

01:23:20   sure I'm never gonna buy this is that it [TS]

01:23:22   has a camera on it and I'm not one of [TS]

01:23:23   those people who's paranoid about [TS]

01:23:24   cameras but of all the places I'm not [TS]

01:23:26   gonna stick a camera of dubious security [TS]

01:23:28   it's next to my bed [TS]

01:23:31   sorry Amazon if this thing didn't have a [TS]

01:23:35   camera then I would probably still not [TS]

01:23:38   buy it because my next fallback position [TS]

01:23:39   would be Marco hated the screen and it [TS]

01:23:41   was really annoying and this has the [TS]

01:23:42   same screen so unless someone told me [TS]

01:23:44   though the screen they solved that [TS]

01:23:45   problem you can make it to the screen [TS]

01:23:46   it's not annoying or not too bright or [TS]

01:23:48   whatever I probably still won't get by [TS]

01:23:50   the camera no deal for me and that's [TS]

01:23:53   despite the fact that when we talked [TS]

01:23:54   about the Amazon look the thing that it [TS]

01:23:56   takes pictures of your outfits and stuff [TS]

01:23:57   that I totally endorse the idea of [TS]

01:23:59   having more cameras in the house for [TS]

01:24:01   functions like that but for me [TS]

01:24:03   personally my bedside table is a no-go [TS]

01:24:05   that's just my position if you don't [TS]

01:24:06   mind it and if you're not concerned [TS]

01:24:08   about security or whatever then by all [TS]

01:24:10   means go for it and tell me how annoying [TS]

01:24:11   is but I'm not getting this thing that's [TS]

01:24:13   a different lifestyle I mean I think [TS]

01:24:16   there's a theme of my opinions of Amazon [TS]

01:24:20   products basically and [TS]

01:24:22   is that when Amazon does things that are [TS]

01:24:24   related to sheer functionality or voice [TS]

01:24:28   response and voice interfaces I really [TS]

01:24:31   like the way they do things most of the [TS]

01:24:32   time when it comes to UI I really don't [TS]

01:24:37   like almost any visual interface that [TS]

01:24:40   Amazon makes the echo show I really did [TS]

01:24:44   not like this thing I think would have [TS]

01:24:46   the exact same problem as you mentioned [TS]

01:24:48   with just like you know like it takes a [TS]

01:24:50   certain degree of standards and and [TS]

01:24:53   taste and good decision-making to to do [TS]

01:24:57   a user interface like this well and I [TS]

01:24:59   don't think Amazon has that talent right [TS]

01:25:02   now or at least they don't let it shine [TS]

01:25:03   they it they just they have not shown [TS]

01:25:06   that they could make a good interface [TS]

01:25:08   the Kindles have always been interface [TS]

01:25:10   disasters the only reason anybody [TS]

01:25:12   enjoyed using Kindles is because for [TS]

01:25:14   most of the you know heyday of the black [TS]

01:25:17   and white ink models they there just [TS]

01:25:20   wasn't much of an interface there so [TS]

01:25:22   like Amazon's mediocrity at interface [TS]

01:25:24   design was less of a problem with this [TS]

01:25:27   primitive thing that just couldn't do [TS]

01:25:28   that much but you know they have gotten [TS]

01:25:31   progressively more and more annoying as [TS]

01:25:33   the technology has gotten better and now [TS]

01:25:35   they have these full-color screens it [TS]

01:25:37   the interface design is about as good as [TS]

01:25:40   it is on their tablets and their TV [TS]

01:25:42   boxes which is not that good so this is [TS]

01:25:46   the kind of product that if Apple made [TS]

01:25:49   something like this it would it might be [TS]

01:25:52   really good although you could argue [TS]

01:25:53   they do it's an Apple watch a night [TS]

01:25:55   stand mode but you know or an iPhone and [TS]

01:26:00   the doc anyway yeah this is nothing this [TS]

01:26:03   is the kind of thing that I don't think [TS]

01:26:05   Amazon should make with their current [TS]

01:26:08   talent and also you know the camera I [TS]

01:26:10   think is going to be one of the most [TS]

01:26:12   turnoff --is-- factors of it why does [TS]

01:26:16   this need a camera and the only reason I [TS]

01:26:19   can think of is they really want to push [TS]

01:26:20   their like video calling thing they like [TS]

01:26:22   they're trying obviously very hard to [TS]

01:26:23   make that a thing even though I don't [TS]

01:26:25   think anybody actually wants it but if [TS]

01:26:28   this didn't have the camera not only [TS]

01:26:31   could it maybe be five bucks cheaper but [TS]

01:26:33   I think more people would buy it laughs [TS]

01:26:36   a camera than anybody who's gonna buy it [TS]

01:26:37   with the camera this seems like one of [TS]

01:26:39   those like corporate strategy tax thing [TS]

01:26:41   for like they're obviously trying so [TS]

01:26:43   hard to push calling people on the [TS]

01:26:45   echoes that they're putting the cameras [TS]

01:26:47   and all these different models that like [TS]

01:26:49   really probably shouldn't have them and [TS]

01:26:51   I think this would be a much better [TS]

01:26:53   product about it so yeah I just I don't [TS]

01:26:57   see this being a good thing with the [TS]

01:26:58   combination of the camera and Amazon's [TS]

01:27:01   terrible UI taste but the concept is a [TS]

01:27:05   good concept and I hope someone Amazon [TS]

01:27:08   or not does it right cuz I think that [TS]

01:27:10   would be a really nice market maybe put [TS]

01:27:12   in a kitchen wouldn't be as bad there's [TS]

01:27:14   nothing that says this is supposed to be [TS]

01:27:16   on your bedside table that's just the [TS]

01:27:17   where I was interested in putting it but [TS]

01:27:18   if you put in your kitchen it is less [TS]

01:27:20   ugly and gigantic or I don't know how [TS]

01:27:23   gigantic it is because I don't have one [TS]

01:27:24   but it's like the other one certainly [TS]

01:27:26   looks like I know it's not actually that [TS]

01:27:27   big when you get it in person but it's [TS]

01:27:28   like it's like a right rectangular [TS]

01:27:30   monolith this is a cute little ball and [TS]

01:27:32   so maybe you would fit in more places in [TS]

01:27:34   people's lives and the camera because [TS]

01:27:36   it's so cheap it just feels like a hedge [TS]

01:27:38   like maybe we will think of something [TS]

01:27:39   cool to do with this or maybe you can [TS]

01:27:40   hold things up to it and we'll find them [TS]

01:27:42   on Amazon and buy them for you you know [TS]

01:27:44   and that is the video conferencing angle [TS]

01:27:45   too but the camera just gives you a lot [TS]

01:27:46   of possibilities so I understand why [TS]

01:27:48   it's there it's just it for me it makes [TS]

01:27:51   it a not a choice for the bedroom but [TS]

01:27:54   for something in the kitchen or whatever [TS]

01:27:56   that's where I wouldn't mind it I [TS]

01:27:57   already have a camera my kitchen to [TS]

01:27:59   watch my dog so I'm obviously that's not [TS]

01:28:01   a problem for me so here's what I just [TS]

01:28:03   noticed in the in the specs of the of [TS]

01:28:05   the of this little ball thing it has a [TS]

01:28:08   line out for sound that's interesting so [TS]

01:28:12   that basically makes it a fancy [TS]

01:28:15   expensive echo dot so so if so you could [TS]

01:28:18   use this to add a small screen to a [TS]

01:28:22   smart speaker somewhere in your house [TS]

01:28:24   like if you take it out of the bedroom [TS]

01:28:27   that I think makes it a more interesting [TS]

01:28:29   proposition anyway so I wish them luck [TS]

01:28:33   with these things and we'll see I mean [TS]

01:28:34   probably next year between me between me [TS]

01:28:37   and John Casey Anna you're not gonna buy [TS]

01:28:39   any of these things but between me and [TS]

01:28:41   John [TS]

01:28:41   we're probably gonna own one of each of [TS]

01:28:43   these things that means you're gonna buy [TS]

01:28:45   every single one because I don't think [TS]

01:28:46   I'm buying any of these yeah just wait [TS]

01:28:49   I mean I've thought about having another [TS]

01:28:51   having an echo and the Google home in [TS]

01:28:53   the house at the same time yeah I don't [TS]

01:28:56   know I think I'm what I'm more likely to [TS]

01:28:58   do at this point is buy more cameras [TS]

01:28:59   from my house more dedicated cameras [TS]

01:29:01   because now that I have one to watch the [TS]

01:29:02   dog I'm like I can get a better angle on [TS]

01:29:04   the dog when she's in a different room [TS]

01:29:05   like maybe a second camera or something [TS]

01:29:09   like that or maybe I'll finally get into [TS]

01:29:11   like the the light bulbs and stuff and [TS]

01:29:13   then I'll get an echo in some other room [TS]

01:29:14   to do light control but but we'll see no [TS]

01:29:17   none of these are making me want to run [TS]

01:29:19   out and buy any of them I'll let you buy [TS]

01:29:20   all of them and tell me what they're [TS]

01:29:21   like okay thanks I'm back again what did [TS]

01:29:26   I miss [TS]

01:29:26   thanks to our sponsors this week Casper [TS]

01:29:29   betterment and hello and we will see you [TS]

01:29:31   next week now the show is over [TS]

01:29:37   they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

01:29:40   accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

01:29:46   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:29:50   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:29:53   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:29:57   notes at ADP FM and if you're into [TS]

01:30:02   Twitter you can follow them [TS]

01:30:06   CAS II WA L is s so that's Casey list [TS]

01:30:11   and a are Co AR m and T Marco Arment [TS]

01:30:17   si R Syracuse [TS]

01:30:25   [Music] [TS]

01:30:34   yeah what we got for the after show [TS]

01:30:36   fancy chairs oh yeah this time it was [TS]

01:30:41   John that's spent an exorbitant amount [TS]

01:30:43   of money yeah it got a lot of chair [TS]

01:30:48   issues in my little computer room that [TS]

01:30:50   also has my ps4 in it I've got a chair [TS]

01:30:53   in front of my wife's computer which is [TS]

01:30:54   a value a iMac I've got a chair in front [TS]

01:30:56   of my old Mac Pro and I've got a third [TS]

01:30:58   chair in front of my ps4 all right play [TS]

01:31:01   destiny and all these chairs are bad [TS]

01:31:03   chairs two of them two of them are bad [TS]

01:31:07   chairs one of them is just really old so [TS]

01:31:10   my wife's chair is some crappy like [TS]

01:31:13   OfficeMax staples whatever cheap chair [TS]

01:31:16   that is actually not even good for the [TS]

01:31:19   amount that we paid for it like well it [TS]

01:31:21   was a cheap but it's okay it's it [TS]

01:31:22   wobbles it was never very comfortable [TS]

01:31:25   it's ugly it's just not a good chair the [TS]

01:31:28   ps4 chair is like not actually a chair [TS]

01:31:31   that's supposed to be in front of a desk [TS]

01:31:33   it's like sort of a casual I don't know [TS]

01:31:36   what it is like it's not like a folding [TS]

01:31:38   chair what you take out one company [TS]

01:31:40   comes over but it's like one step remove [TS]

01:31:41   note it's not a folding chair but it is [TS]

01:31:43   like it's not a computer chair at all [TS]

01:31:45   and I don't like it because it puts [TS]

01:31:47   weird marks on the carpet and we have [TS]

01:31:49   like a pillow on top of it to make it [TS]

01:31:51   marginally comfortable and like it's [TS]

01:31:53   kind of falling apart so that's not [TS]

01:31:56   great and then finally my computer chair [TS]

01:31:59   which is the one I'm excluding from [TS]

01:32:01   calling a bad chair it's just it's seen [TS]

01:32:03   better days [TS]

01:32:04   I bought this chair for $250 which seems [TS]

01:32:06   like a huge amount of money when I lived [TS]

01:32:09   in Georgia which was at least what 20 [TS]

01:32:11   years ago right and you know I was just [TS]

01:32:14   out of school just married living in our [TS]

01:32:16   first apartment [TS]

01:32:17   you know away from home we did buying [TS]

01:32:20   furniture first off I bought myself a [TS]

01:32:22   desk which I'm not using anymore [TS]

01:32:23   actually I was using it but well the [TS]

01:32:25   desk and all I was using so that thing [TS]

01:32:27   survived and I needed to get a chair for [TS]

01:32:29   it and I spent what I thought was a lot [TS]

01:32:31   of money $250 for a chair in like [TS]

01:32:33   1997-98 boy that's a lot of money in the [TS]

01:32:37   grand scheme of things it's not that [TS]

01:32:38   expensive but anyway that $250 chair has [TS]

01:32:40   lasted me [TS]

01:32:41   you know 20 years and it still works [TS]

01:32:46   okay the cushion is absolutely shot it [TS]

01:32:49   is shredded and it also any foam that [TS]

01:32:52   might have been in there is compressed [TS]

01:32:53   you know beyond belief from 20 years of [TS]

01:32:56   me sitting on it but nothing on it is [TS]

01:32:58   broken [TS]

01:32:59   doesn't really rattle the pneumatic [TS]

01:33:01   up-and-down thingy has a little bit of [TS]

01:33:04   spring in it when it shouldn't like this [TS]

01:33:06   sort of goes down compresses when you [TS]

01:33:08   said ah no matter what but it's pretty [TS]

01:33:10   heroic like kind of like my Mac Pro you [TS]

01:33:13   know it's time but it's pretty but [TS]

01:33:16   anyway it has never been a particularly [TS]

01:33:18   comfortable or a good chair and I just [TS]

01:33:20   feel like I needed a better one and I've [TS]

01:33:22   been putting this off for years [TS]

01:33:23   it's not like I'm buying new new fancy [TS]

01:33:25   chairs and I went for years and years [TS]

01:33:27   I've been like we need new chairs Oh our [TS]

01:33:29   chairs are crap and I'm sitting on a 15 [TS]

01:33:30   year old chair and now I'm sitting on an [TS]

01:33:32   18 year old chair and now I'm sitting on [TS]

01:33:33   a 20 year old chair and for whatever [TS]

01:33:34   reason finally got the wherewithal say [TS]

01:33:39   we just just need to get new chairs and [TS]

01:33:41   I've been resisting mostly because fancy [TS]

01:33:43   chairs cost huge amounts of money if [TS]

01:33:46   you've never looked at fancy chairs and [TS]

01:33:48   you think the $250 one was it was too [TS]

01:33:49   much money don't look it's terrifying it [TS]

01:33:51   costs too much money and I would be like [TS]

01:33:53   I don't like my chair but no do I not [TS]

01:33:56   like it that much [TS]

01:33:58   the answer is usually no I was working [TS]

01:34:01   during the dot-com boom right and that [TS]

01:34:05   means I had occasion to encounter Aeron [TS]

01:34:07   chairs which was one of the first fancy [TS]

01:34:09   chairs and I sat on them and they're [TS]

01:34:12   interesting but they never seemed like [TS]

01:34:15   they could justify the price so I always [TS]

01:34:16   had an excuse in my head of like yeah [TS]

01:34:18   okay fancy chairs may be nice but [TS]

01:34:20   they're not that nice and I had some [TS]

01:34:22   foundation in it having actually like [TS]

01:34:24   sit on some kinds of fancy chairs for an [TS]

01:34:26   extended period of time but obviously I [TS]

01:34:29   changed my mind on that and I'm sure [TS]

01:34:30   Marco has Marco as always has a [TS]

01:34:32   compelling case for what people should [TS]

01:34:34   spend money to provide that I did it [TS]

01:34:37   well okay so chairs are one of the many [TS]

01:34:42   categories of products in you know in [TS]

01:34:45   modern life where the the middle class [TS]

01:34:48   is gone there is no poor middle class [TS]

01:34:51   like it's one of those products where [TS]

01:34:54   you can go to a store and [TS]

01:34:55   you can buy one for you know 100 bucks [TS]

01:34:58   150 bucks like that's that's like that [TS]

01:35:00   like this typical like you know staples [TS]

01:35:03   or office max like base model of decent [TS]

01:35:08   desk chair with arms on it it's gonna be [TS]

01:35:11   about a hundred fifty bucks you know [TS]

01:35:12   something like that you could also get [TS]

01:35:15   the one for 250 [TS]

01:35:17   but these days maybe when you bought [TS]

01:35:19   yours things were different John [TS]

01:35:20   probably not but maybe um but these days [TS]

01:35:23   like the $250 one you're not really [TS]

01:35:26   getting higher quality than the cheaper [TS]

01:35:29   one you're just getting a higher price [TS]

01:35:31   with some features thrown on to make you [TS]

01:35:33   pay that higher price but it's not [TS]

01:35:34   really a higher quality it's it's the [TS]

01:35:37   kind of thing we're like there's [TS]

01:35:39   basically one quality level that they [TS]

01:35:41   used to sign multiple price points to [TS]

01:35:43   for marketing and profit it's a complete [TS]

01:35:46   but you're you're getting like the same [TS]

01:35:49   crap quality just with you know you know [TS]

01:35:52   a nicer finish on the arms or something [TS]

01:35:54   like that like minor cosmetic [TS]

01:35:56   differences this is a true of so many [TS]

01:35:58   things it's true of appliances in so [TS]

01:36:00   many things where like everything's [TS]

01:36:02   basically cheap crap and to get the next [TS]

01:36:05   level of quality up you have to go from [TS]

01:36:08   like a hundred and fifty dollars to a [TS]

01:36:10   thousand dollars like there's nothing [TS]

01:36:12   like everything in between [TS]

01:36:13   you're being ripped off basically it's [TS]

01:36:15   like there's like the the $400 ones is [TS]

01:36:18   gonna be the same as the one or dollar [TS]

01:36:20   one this $600 one is probably gonna be [TS]

01:36:22   similar cloth like you're gonna you have [TS]

01:36:25   to make a big jump to go much higher end [TS]

01:36:27   to get a noticeable increase in quality [TS]

01:36:30   if you want that because the [TS]

01:36:31   middle-class have just kind of just been [TS]

01:36:33   hollowed out by [TS]

01:36:34   cheapness and decon tenting and [TS]

01:36:37   outsourcing and just crap overtime that [TS]

01:36:39   now all the low-end stuff is all made [TS]

01:36:41   the same way and only the high-end stuff [TS]

01:36:44   can afford to have any quality left in [TS]

01:36:45   it and of course the high-end stuff as [TS]

01:36:47   with all high-end stuff has tremendous [TS]

01:36:49   margins so you know I don't know if you [TS]

01:36:50   considered being getting ripped off but [TS]

01:36:52   you like because the middle is gone your [TS]

01:36:56   choice is narrow margins on crap or huge [TS]

01:37:00   margins on expensive stuff expensive [TS]

01:37:02   always has huge margins so I feel like [TS]

01:37:04   the high-end stuff not only is it [TS]

01:37:05   expensive you feel like you're getting [TS]

01:37:07   ripped off it's like okay this is [TS]

01:37:08   better and maybe I'll say it's two times [TS]

01:37:11   better but it's not four times better [TS]

01:37:12   and it's four times the price and that's [TS]

01:37:14   just the price that's the price you pay [TS]

01:37:16   in the high end for anything it is never [TS]

01:37:17   proportional like you know your Mercedes [TS]

01:37:20   s-class is three times as good as a [TS]

01:37:23   Honda Accord but it cost way more than [TS]

01:37:26   three times the price and that's just [TS]

01:37:27   just the way of the world in the [TS]

01:37:29   high-end and it is it's tough to stomach [TS]

01:37:30   and it's the reason I've been sitting on [TS]

01:37:32   the same chair for twenty years is good [TS]

01:37:33   I'm just like I can't do it [TS]

01:37:35   yeah and and by the way like the hundred [TS]

01:37:38   dollar chair at Staples like there's a [TS]

01:37:39   pretty good margin on that too late [TS]

01:37:41   don't don't get you know that chairs [TS]

01:37:43   made out of like sawdust and like thin [TS]

01:37:45   plastic percentage-wise maybe but in [TS]

01:37:49   absolute dollars its twenty dollars [TS]

01:37:51   you're making off that chair yeah yeah [TS]

01:37:53   is it well anyway the reason what so I I [TS]

01:37:57   did those cheap chairs for years the [TS]

01:38:00   reason why I finally upgraded so I [TS]

01:38:03   finally upgraded to a good chair when I [TS]

01:38:06   started working from home full-time [TS]

01:38:07   because I decided you know if I'm gonna [TS]

01:38:10   be here all the time [TS]

01:38:11   I need something actually good because [TS]

01:38:14   you know at work I would sit in decent [TS]

01:38:16   office chairs like I think it's humbler [TS]

01:38:18   the whole time I think I had an air on [TS]

01:38:19   my before the job before that I had like [TS]

01:38:23   you know not like the super fancy chair [TS]

01:38:25   but like a mid-range you know office [TS]

01:38:27   company chair like you when you're [TS]

01:38:30   sitting on something for like one hour a [TS]

01:38:33   day at home when you come home from work [TS]

01:38:35   that has very different needs than when [TS]

01:38:37   you're sitting in it all day every day [TS]

01:38:38   like that's that's one of the reasons [TS]

01:38:39   why offices tend to have pretty nice [TS]

01:38:41   chairs anyway so I decided a chair lasts [TS]

01:38:45   a pretty long time if you spent $100 on [TS]

01:38:49   that chair or if you spent $1,000 in [TS]

01:38:51   that chair over the course of 20 years [TS]

01:38:53   like you're not really gonna notice that [TS]

01:38:54   much like it like like over over the [TS]

01:38:57   time fan of what you're using it that [TS]

01:38:58   actually is not that ridiculous you know [TS]

01:39:00   so anyway I decided to get nice chairs [TS]

01:39:04   when we when I started the home office I [TS]

01:39:06   have one TIFF has one and they are [TS]

01:39:09   wonderful I will tell you what they are [TS]

01:39:11   after you told me what you bought but I [TS]

01:39:14   think you already know and yeah it's [TS]

01:39:16   wonderful so what did you decide to do [TS]

01:39:18   well so I did what everybody does these [TS]

01:39:20   days and I went to the [TS]

01:39:21   cutter also known as wire cutter no need [TS]

01:39:24   for the though and looked at their chair [TS]

01:39:27   reviews and the thing is because I've [TS]

01:39:29   been looking at this for years I have [TS]

01:39:30   some experience with what's out there in [TS]

01:39:33   the high-end chair market and also by [TS]

01:39:35   the way probably even more experienced [TS]

01:39:37   with the crap chairs because every few [TS]

01:39:39   years I'll go into an office store and [TS]

01:39:41   sit on every single one of the chairs [TS]

01:39:42   and just see if there's any that I can [TS]

01:39:45   tolerate or that make me want to pay [TS]

01:39:47   $150 or whatever and in my travels [TS]

01:39:51   around the working world and friends [TS]

01:39:53   houses who have expensive chairs I've [TS]

01:39:56   set in not a lot of the expensive chairs [TS]

01:39:59   but a couple of them and and you know I [TS]

01:40:03   work in two jobs like some people have [TS]

01:40:04   fancy chairs at work and there's always [TS]

01:40:07   the ubiquitous leftover ions from the [TS]

01:40:08   dot-com boom and so I'm familiar with a [TS]

01:40:11   lot of these chairs and part of the [TS]

01:40:14   reason why I bought a new one is just my [TS]

01:40:16   old chairs are just getting older and [TS]

01:40:18   creepier and really I really just want [TS]

01:40:19   to buy my wife a new chair because hers [TS]

01:40:21   is the worst and I always felt like we [TS]

01:40:24   could once I'm getting her one I'm like [TS]

01:40:26   well then we should just get us both one [TS]

01:40:27   and then I can rotate my old chair to [TS]

01:40:28   the PlayStation and get rid of that [TS]

01:40:30   other chair and just you know I don't [TS]

01:40:31   know it just it just seemed like the [TS]

01:40:32   time to do it the wire cutter [TS]

01:40:34   recommendation is this thing called the [TS]

01:40:36   steel case gesture I'm just looking at [TS]

01:40:39   that and I figured and the other [TS]

01:40:42   alternative is the chair that Marco has [TS]

01:40:43   and the chair that I think underscore [TS]

01:40:45   also has don't you boss we both have the [TS]

01:40:46   same chair I forget me probably pretty [TS]

01:40:49   sure you do because I think I've sat in [TS]

01:40:51   both your chairs when I visited both [TS]

01:40:52   your houses they made a department of [TS]

01:40:54   chairs to see what they're like and des [TS]

01:40:57   gesture is cheaper and it was the number [TS]

01:40:59   one pick and part of the norm of the [TS]

01:41:00   reasoning of the number one pick is like [TS]

01:41:02   the Marcos chair which is the Herman [TS]

01:41:04   Miller embody is $300 more expensive but [TS]

01:41:09   doesn't seem $300 better like the [TS]

01:41:11   gesture was it was it was a better deal [TS]

01:41:14   and one of the factors in buying my [TS]

01:41:17   chair the chair as I'm getting is that I [TS]

01:41:19   tend not to like armrests at all I don't [TS]

01:41:22   want them on my chairs at all all the [TS]

01:41:23   chairs I've ever had a that remove the [TS]

01:41:25   arms from them a bit working at home or [TS]

01:41:26   by Charis without arm rests I just [TS]

01:41:28   finally get in the way up I've got long [TS]

01:41:30   arms and I find to get in the way of my [TS]

01:41:32   arms [TS]

01:41:32   elbows and when I rotate my chair the [TS]

01:41:34   arms hit my keyboard tray because I use [TS]

01:41:36   a keyboard tray everywhere that's down [TS]

01:41:37   low and I just don't like the arms and [TS]

01:41:40   both the gesture and the embody looked [TS]

01:41:42   like they had the possibility that if [TS]

01:41:44   you remove the arms there would be no [TS]

01:41:45   stubby things poking you like the [TS]

01:41:47   gesture arms are way back like by the [TS]

01:41:50   sides of the seat back and the embody [TS]

01:41:52   arms are way down below and back by the [TS]

01:41:54   side so I'm like oh those are both good [TS]

01:41:56   when it came time for me to start [TS]

01:41:57   ordering my plan was buy one embody and [TS]

01:41:59   one gesture and my wife and I would try [TS]

01:42:01   both of them and then we would decide if [TS]

01:42:03   we you know if we each like one of each [TS]

01:42:05   then we would just use the chairs and if [TS]

01:42:06   we both like one didn't like the other [TS]

01:42:07   we would return one and get another one [TS]

01:42:09   so then it came down to the company's [TS]

01:42:10   return policies and steel cases return [TS]

01:42:14   policy was crap they had a 20% [TS]

01:42:15   restocking fee and like no thanks you [TS]

01:42:18   can buy them through Amazon and as far [TS]

01:42:20   as I could tell you'd be subject to [TS]

01:42:22   Amazon's return policy which is like 30 [TS]

01:42:25   days return blah blah blah and [TS]

01:42:27   reasonable new condition but I wasn't so [TS]

01:42:30   sure about that and then the final [TS]

01:42:31   alternative is to find a local store and [TS]

01:42:33   you know go there and see what their [TS]

01:42:35   return policy is but just you know about [TS]

01:42:38   yeah you're busy you're working and I'm [TS]

01:42:40   like oh if I have to find a store to do [TS]

01:42:42   it maybe it's a long drive and I'll [TS]

01:42:43   never end up doing it and the places [TS]

01:42:45   that are close to me didn't carry the [TS]

01:42:46   gesture that is carried to other steel [TS]

01:42:48   case chairs and just I didn't I didn't [TS]

01:42:52   want to go through that so anyway we're [TS]

01:42:53   trying to experiment I decided I'm gonna [TS]

01:42:55   buy the Herman Miller one by the way has [TS]

01:42:58   the 30-day return policy buying direct [TS]

01:43:00   from Herman Miller with no restocking [TS]

01:43:02   fee and it has 12 year warranty on the [TS]

01:43:05   chairs for whatever that's worth in case [TS]

01:43:06   like it's damaged or whatever so I [TS]

01:43:08   figured I'll try the Herman Miller [TS]

01:43:09   embody mostly because I found youtube [TS]

01:43:12   videos of removing the arms and I look [TS]

01:43:14   very straight forward like it's not some [TS]

01:43:16   complicated thing because I have sat in [TS]

01:43:18   it at Marcos house and underscores house [TS]

01:43:20   and because the wire cutter basically [TS]

01:43:23   said it's you know we pick gestures I [TS]

01:43:26   remember one but that has a lot to do [TS]

01:43:27   with price the embodies a good chair too [TS]

01:43:30   this is all despite the fact that I [TS]

01:43:32   think all Herman Miller chairs including [TS]

01:43:34   the air on the body are ridiculously [TS]

01:43:36   over engineered and have things on them [TS]

01:43:38   that do not make them better chairs [TS]

01:43:39   there's a lot of that sort of high-end [TS]

01:43:42   has to be fancy and weird to make you [TS]

01:43:44   feel like you're dressed if I'd spent [TS]

01:43:46   it's money that I really think does not [TS]

01:43:48   actually make in a better chair but [TS]

01:43:50   despite all that stuff [TS]

01:43:51   it is also seems like a sturdy chair and [TS]

01:43:56   sitting on it it feels solid like it [TS]

01:43:59   feels if you're smaller than any of the [TS]

01:44:01   chairs in my house and I'm just hoping [TS]

01:44:03   it would be comfortable so I've been [TS]

01:44:04   sitting I'm sitting on it now I just got [TS]

01:44:05   it today I was sitting on it during this [TS]

01:44:07   whole podcast and it takes some getting [TS]

01:44:10   used to [TS]

01:44:11   maybe I don't have it quite adjusted the [TS]

01:44:13   way I want yet the arms I'm try the [TS]

01:44:15   experiment with your arms on these arms [TS]

01:44:17   are coming off because I cannot stand [TS]

01:44:18   yeah they're easy to come off oh and [TS]

01:44:22   then I'll have my wife try it for a [TS]

01:44:24   little while as well and after 30 days [TS]

01:44:25   we'll decide are we keeping this Arriba [TS]

01:44:27   or are we buying a second one or are we [TS]

01:44:29   gonna try something else so this is an [TS]

01:44:31   experiment and in case you're wondering [TS]

01:44:32   how much this chair cost you can go to [TS]

01:44:34   her millet I come and find out and you [TS]

01:44:36   can customize this kind of like a [TS]

01:44:37   Porsche where you can get a different [TS]

01:44:40   fabric on it for an additional 150 [TS]

01:44:42   dollars they have for you or an [TS]

01:44:45   additional 90 dollars to get a different [TS]

01:44:46   finish on the bottom of the chair this [TS]

01:44:47   gives you an idea of of what it's like [TS]

01:44:49   but the cheapest you can come out with [TS]

01:44:51   one of these things is about $1,300 for [TS]

01:44:54   a chair which sounds very very [TS]

01:44:57   ridiculous and honestly it is ridiculous [TS]

01:44:59   but if you have recently shopped for say [TS]

01:45:01   a non Casper mattress or a nice couch [TS]

01:45:04   not from Ikea furniture is really [TS]

01:45:08   expensive for a dining room table [TS]

01:45:09   not even like a high-end dining room [TS]

01:45:11   table but just like a middle-of-the-road [TS]

01:45:13   dining room table with six chairs and [TS]

01:45:15   the leaf furniture is expensive so [TS]

01:45:18   anyway I would furniture is expensive [TS]

01:45:21   but it's not good like we have an [TS]

01:45:23   expensive dining room table but it's not [TS]

01:45:24   good it's just furniture Jordan's [TS]

01:45:27   furniture is not a high-end furniture [TS]

01:45:28   store it's the local chain you probably [TS]

01:45:30   don't know about if you don't live in [TS]

01:45:31   Massachusetts but if not IKEA it's not [TS]

01:45:34   cheap furniture but it's not fancy [TS]

01:45:37   expensive furniture it is solidly [TS]

01:45:39   middle-of-the-road mainstream for and [TS]

01:45:40   same thing with mattresses like again [TS]

01:45:42   not you Castro mattresses seem like [TS]

01:45:44   they're expensive go real mattress [TS]

01:45:45   shopping one day and find out how much [TS]

01:45:47   like a real queen-size mattress cost [TS]

01:45:49   it's not the cheapest one in the entire [TS]

01:45:50   store they're ridiculously expensive [TS]

01:45:52   right so then anyway I'm not gonna [TS]

01:45:54   pretend this is not expensive share is a [TS]

01:45:56   ridiculously expensive chair is the [TS]

01:45:58   margins on it [TS]

01:45:59   and like I said a lot of the design at [TS]

01:46:01   months I figure er they're kind of like [TS]

01:46:03   that uh what's the Apple dude with the [TS]

01:46:09   expensive hourglass and crap like that [TS]

01:46:11   Marc Newson yeah like a lot there's a [TS]

01:46:14   lot of Marc Newson style flourishes on [TS]

01:46:16   Herman Miller chairs and the Steelcase [TS]

01:46:18   ones as well that I just feel like don't [TS]

01:46:21   add that much anyway my initial [TS]

01:46:22   impressions of this chair having just [TS]

01:46:23   sat on it for a couple hours of [TS]

01:46:25   podcasting and again I'm familiar with [TS]

01:46:28   the chairs have sat on other people's [TS]

01:46:29   that it feels like the other people's do [TS]

01:46:30   the base feels very solid and very wide [TS]

01:46:33   the chair itself is way heavier than my [TS]

01:46:36   old chair that manifests in me not being [TS]

01:46:38   able to roll it on carpet as easily it's [TS]

01:46:40   got I've got the carpet casters on it so [TS]

01:46:42   in theory they're the right I've got the [TS]

01:46:44   right feet on it so it doesn't you know [TS]

01:46:45   sink in or whatever but it is just so [TS]

01:46:48   much heavier it's like twice as heavy as [TS]

01:46:50   my other chair so rolling it is harder [TS]

01:46:52   to do this chair despite the fact that [TS]

01:46:56   it's all fancy is not Believe It or Not [TS]

01:46:59   as adjustable is my other chair because [TS]

01:47:00   the backrest can't go up and down like [TS]

01:47:02   vertically like towards the ceiling in [TS]

01:47:04   towards the floor because it's sort of [TS]

01:47:05   one continuous piece and I'm a tall [TS]

01:47:07   person with a long torso so I'm not [TS]

01:47:08   entirely sure that I'm getting the [TS]

01:47:10   support I need from the back of it but [TS]

01:47:11   you know I'm willing to wait and see [TS]

01:47:14   using it for a while how I feel sitting [TS]

01:47:16   in the chair a long term bottom part of [TS]

01:47:19   it feels okay so far the arms are gonna [TS]

01:47:22   definitely going to come off anyway it's [TS]

01:47:24   an experiment and even if I don't love [TS]

01:47:27   it you know I'll see if my wife likes it [TS]

01:47:29   and I'm either one of us do we will try [TS]

01:47:32   to return it somehow I'll try to save [TS]

01:47:35   the box and packing materials but it's a [TS]

01:47:37   that's a lot of stuff and even if we do [TS]

01:47:41   like it maybe we'll try another one of [TS]

01:47:43   these for my wife and or me or maybe [TS]

01:47:45   I'll try a gesture if I can find a way [TS]

01:47:48   to buy without returning it and if [TS]

01:47:50   you're thinking of using a tray like [TS]

01:47:52   this the best way to do it is to find a [TS]

01:47:53   local store that you can sit in within [TS]

01:47:55   and then when you can talk to somebody [TS]

01:47:56   about like what if I don't like he can I [TS]

01:47:58   return it I just didn't have the time to [TS]

01:48:01   do that and I just I felt like if I [TS]

01:48:03   tried to if I tried to pursue that as I [TS]

01:48:05   have in the past what would actually [TS]

01:48:06   happen is I would never find time to go [TS]

01:48:08   to the store or I would go to a store [TS]

01:48:10   and they would have one or two chairs [TS]

01:48:11   and I would try them and not [TS]

01:48:12   I just wouldn't do anything I just [TS]

01:48:13   needed to jump in the pool oh and you do [TS]

01:48:17   get to pick all the different colors and [TS]

01:48:18   finishes which is just stress inducing [TS]

01:48:20   this by the way is why I always like I [TS]

01:48:21   spent a lot of time thinking about what [TS]

01:48:23   I would do if I ever had [TS]

01:48:26   order like a Ferrari or Bentley because [TS]

01:48:28   you get to pick like everything about [TS]

01:48:29   the inside of them what color do you [TS]

01:48:31   want what color carpet do you want [TS]

01:48:33   materials do you want here what like [TS]

01:48:34   they will do anything for you especially [TS]

01:48:35   like you know Bentley enrolls cuz [TS]

01:48:37   they're basically building their car [TS]

01:48:38   just for you and I would be paralyzed [TS]

01:48:41   about like I don't know I don't want to [TS]

01:48:42   like spend 400 grand on a car and end up [TS]

01:48:44   with this monstrosity because I have bad [TS]

01:48:46   taste like we should really limit it to [TS]

01:48:47   I know they do have some preset so like [TS]

01:48:49   just pick these presets but it's a lot [TS]

01:48:51   of pressure being able to customize all [TS]

01:48:52   that stuff here's my rich people have [TS]

01:48:55   other people take them out four of them [TS]

01:48:56   or whatever but uh anyway I picked the [TS]

01:48:58   options on this chair mostly to keep it [TS]

01:49:00   inexpensive so mine is all black it's [TS]

01:49:02   just black black black black black with [TS]

01:49:04   the cheap fabric yeah I mean so whatever [TS]

01:49:07   for whatever it's worth you know so we [TS]

01:49:08   have two of these and are always one for [TS]

01:49:10   me one for two if I bought them both in [TS]

01:49:11   2010 so they're they're they're like [TS]

01:49:14   seven and a half years old now we have [TS]

01:49:16   sat in them you know I'm here I'm [TS]

01:49:19   sitting here more than tifa's so you [TS]

01:49:21   know mine is a little more worn than [TS]

01:49:22   hers ours and ours are both like the [TS]

01:49:25   typical you know black and black the [TS]

01:49:28   whatever the the fabric is that used to [TS]

01:49:30   be the only fabric because when I when I [TS]

01:49:32   bought these there were very few options [TS]

01:49:34   because the embody in 2010 was still [TS]

01:49:36   fairly new so there there weren't there [TS]

01:49:39   any options so anyway it has held up so [TS]

01:49:41   remarkably well like not only is the [TS]

01:49:43   support and everything still wonderful [TS]

01:49:45   as far as I can tell flawless but even [TS]

01:49:49   the fabric covering that you expect a [TS]

01:49:51   chair that is totally covered in fabric [TS]

01:49:53   like you know the the the air on the [TS]

01:49:55   more you know the more famous one from [TS]

01:49:56   dot-com era the air on has a whole lot [TS]

01:49:58   of plastic framing around it so a lot of [TS]

01:50:00   the like pressure or the friction of you [TS]

01:50:03   moving around and sitting on the chair [TS]

01:50:04   is on some of those plastic pieces I [TS]

01:50:06   think one of the one of the biggest [TS]

01:50:08   sources of wear on a chair is probably [TS]

01:50:10   like the front rim of it and on the air [TS]

01:50:12   on that's all plastic the what goes [TS]

01:50:14   under your knees basically with the [TS]

01:50:16   embody everything is wrapped in fabric [TS]

01:50:18   base it like every edge that you touch [TS]

01:50:20   is fabric covered including that front [TS]

01:50:22   lip so you would expect these chairs [TS]

01:50:25   for seven years of having my rear end on [TS]

01:50:28   it constantly you know I don't I don't [TS]

01:50:30   use this chair a little bit I'm really [TS]

01:50:33   good sitting in my office so like you [TS]

01:50:36   would think after all that time there [TS]

01:50:38   would be a lot of wear and tear on this [TS]

01:50:39   chair and I have two tiny little spots [TS]

01:50:43   on the fabric on that front lip where [TS]

01:50:46   like the edge there's like an edge [TS]

01:50:48   support that kind of comes in from the [TS]

01:50:50   sides and there's these two little worn [TS]

01:50:52   away dots in the fabric and that's the [TS]

01:50:55   only visible wear on the entire chair [TS]

01:50:58   TIFF uses her a little bit less than me [TS]

01:51:00   hers are still perfect hers doesn't have [TS]

01:51:02   those dots and it's so it's just like [TS]

01:51:04   nowhere and this is after seven and a [TS]

01:51:06   half years of fairly heavy use you [TS]

01:51:10   should get that repaired under warranty [TS]

01:51:11   because you're still under warranty you [TS]

01:51:12   say hey fabric wore through give me a [TS]

01:51:13   new new fabric yeah actually I probably [TS]

01:51:16   will you didn't do it for your iMac I [TS]

01:51:18   forgot to remind you about that last [TS]

01:51:19   show I remembered again real listening [TS]

01:51:21   to shows this is the part where I meant [TS]

01:51:23   to tell Marco that he needs to bring his [TS]

01:51:24   iMac in before the the warranty expires [TS]

01:51:25   you know what it is I still don't have [TS]

01:51:28   like I'd have to use my laptop without a [TS]

01:51:29   monitor or I'd have to go to the beach [TS]

01:51:31   get the lg monitor that I hate and bring [TS]

01:51:33   it here just do it the Barneys it's [TS]

01:51:35   firing it's worth just trying you should [TS]

01:51:37   know it's expiring in a few weeks but I [TS]

01:51:39   really like I don't I really don't want [TS]

01:51:41   to go without having a nice computer [TS]

01:51:44   right now like this is like with all the [TS]

01:51:47   the lead up to the iPhone 10 development [TS]

01:51:50   it's very very this is a very bad time [TS]

01:51:53   for me to be without a fast computer [TS]

01:51:55   with the giant screen you just you're [TS]

01:51:56   just waited too long yeah anyway for on [TS]

01:51:59   the speaking of chairs but ellipse the [TS]

01:52:01   air on as most people know who have any [TS]

01:52:03   experience with them the Aaron has like [TS]

01:52:05   mesh seats which is good if you get hot [TS]

01:52:06   like in the seat because like you let [TS]

01:52:08   the air flow up through it but it is [TS]

01:52:10   basically mesh stretched over a plastic [TS]

01:52:11   frame and especially the front lip with [TS]

01:52:14   like the front plastic rim that is [TS]

01:52:16   holding the mesh in like sort of like I [TS]

01:52:17   think of it like a tennis racket that [TS]

01:52:18   rim if you don't sit in it just the [TS]

01:52:21   right way so that your butt is sitting [TS]

01:52:22   on the mesh that RIM digs into the [TS]

01:52:25   bottom of like your your thighs behind [TS]

01:52:28   your knees and it's very uncomfortable I [TS]

01:52:29   can cut off circulation if you're [TS]

01:52:31   sitting in it the right way it's not a [TS]

01:52:32   problem but people sit in all sorts of [TS]

01:52:34   different ways like slouching and [TS]

01:52:35   sliding to the side especially if you're [TS]

01:52:36   in the chair a long time even though [TS]

01:52:37   you're not supposed to or whatever [TS]

01:52:39   that's the main complaint about that and [TS]

01:52:41   uh you know errands you know if you [TS]

01:52:44   don't like the mess you're not gonna [TS]

01:52:45   like it but anyway I had enough errands [TS]

01:52:47   to know that I don't like that I said in [TS]

01:52:48   weird positions that digs in [TS]

01:52:49   so the embody doesn't have that problem [TS]

01:52:51   but that's one of the big things that [TS]

01:52:53   the various reviews I've read including [TS]

01:52:55   the wire cutter said about the gestures [TS]

01:52:56   and it's even better in that the entire [TS]

01:52:59   bottom cushion is very large and all the [TS]

01:53:02   edges are not just fabric covered but [TS]

01:53:04   also kind of squishy so you can sit in [TS]

01:53:06   all sorts of weird positions with your [TS]

01:53:08   limbs draped off at all different angles [TS]

01:53:09   and no add no place where you have your [TS]

01:53:12   circulation cut off so I am still [TS]

01:53:14   interested to try a gesture I just need [TS]

01:53:17   to find somewhere where I can try one so [TS]

01:53:19   that I can return it if I want to [TS]

01:53:21   because gesture is $1,000 chair instead [TS]

01:53:24   of a $1300 one but still pretty [TS]

01:53:25   expensive yeah also if anybody's looking [TS]

01:53:27   to get these things for you know less [TS]

01:53:29   money for a better deal there's a couple [TS]

01:53:32   things you should know first of all I [TS]

01:53:33   heard I should probably verify this but [TS]

01:53:35   I haven't verified this but I heard when [TS]

01:53:37   I was shopping for mine that if you [TS]

01:53:39   don't buy new from an authorized [TS]

01:53:41   reseller Herman Miller's warranty does [TS]

01:53:43   not apply to you so I so if you're [TS]

01:53:45   buying like from like a used sale or a [TS]

01:53:47   discount site be careful with that I [TS]

01:53:50   would say do you do some research to [TS]

01:53:51   figure out if that's true or not [TS]

01:53:52   secondly if you're buying an Aeron used [TS]

01:53:55   or anywhere for that matter what John [TS]

01:53:57   just described about the front lip [TS]

01:53:58   digging into your knees if you don't so [TS]

01:53:59   don't just write it is a desperated by [TS]

01:54:02   the fact that it comes in three [TS]

01:54:02   different sizes so make sure if you're [TS]

01:54:05   buying an Aeron look up what the sizes [TS]

01:54:08   are and make sure you're buying the [TS]

01:54:09   right size for you if you buy one that [TS]

01:54:11   is too large that will dig into your [TS]

01:54:14   knees way more than it should [TS]

01:54:16   most people found the Aeron whoo-hoo [TS]

01:54:19   fine they aren't uncomfortable we're [TS]

01:54:20   sitting in one that was the wrong size [TS]

01:54:21   for them fortunately if you go for the [TS]

01:54:24   embody which I think you should there's [TS]

01:54:26   a reason why it was the kind of sequel [TS]

01:54:28   to the Aeron it's better but if you go [TS]

01:54:32   with the embody you don't have that [TS]

01:54:33   problem that's why the embody only comes [TS]

01:54:34   in one size because it's just a better [TS]

01:54:36   design [TS]

01:54:37   it's the embody the Aeron takes a lot of [TS]

01:54:40   adjustments to be good and to fit you [TS]

01:54:43   well the embody doesn't really have much [TS]

01:54:46   of anything that can be adjusted and [TS]

01:54:48   comes in exactly one size and it's great [TS]

01:54:51   and if it's almost everybody really well [TS]

01:54:52   and that size is fat-ass basically we've [TS]

01:54:56   like this seat if you want your butt to [TS]

01:54:57   feel small citizen embodied because they [TS]

01:54:59   bottom that's just it's just tremendous [TS]

01:55:01   like you need I do not have bottom to [TS]

01:55:03   fill this seat I feel inadequate to the [TS]

01:55:05   task of filling the seat of my butt [TS]

01:55:07   because it is wide I have like six [TS]

01:55:10   inches on either side of me here it's [TS]

01:55:12   it's a it's a big seat you got some work [TS]

01:55:15   to do Joe yeah I'm working on it I'll [TS]

01:55:17   just keep getting down and I almost ate [TS]

01:55:18   an entire pint of haagen-dazs last night [TS]

01:55:20   so I'm working on it you're on your way [TS]

01:55:24   man the Aeron chair looks pretty dated [TS]

01:55:26   to me now [TS]

01:55:27   that it was so iconic for the time that [TS]

01:55:31   now it looks like it looks like 2004 [TS]

01:55:33   yeah I mean I got like the Aaron had [TS]

01:55:36   some innovations I feel like that the [TS]

01:55:37   mesh is an innovation yeah because of [TS]

01:55:40   the the breathability and stuff but some [TS]

01:55:43   aspects of it are just not like the [TS]

01:55:46   lumbar support that's not great like [TS]

01:55:48   that little old you get this thing for [TS]

01:55:50   more money that shoves a plastic lump in [TS]

01:55:52   your back like that's not well [TS]

01:55:53   considered I that thing never and like a [TS]

01:55:56   lot of people will put these weird [TS]

01:55:57   headrests on them too yeah you had rest [TS]

01:56:00   for the embodies who get harassed for [TS]

01:56:01   everything like now then you're in a [TS]

01:56:02   dentist chair that feels weird yeah that [TS]

01:56:04   never work that for me like in all in [TS]

01:56:07   especially like in the tumblr office [TS]

01:56:08   there were always like a million [TS]

01:56:10   different errands around like different [TS]

01:56:12   eras and sizes that were bought it [TS]

01:56:14   because it was a share office for most [TS]

01:56:15   for all the time I was there so like it [TS]

01:56:17   was there were like 25 different errands [TS]

01:56:21   in the office that were all bought at [TS]

01:56:22   different times and so they were in [TS]

01:56:25   various stages of like adjustment from [TS]

01:56:27   previous people who had worked there and [TS]

01:56:28   everything else and so it was always [TS]

01:56:29   like as this bizarre combination of [TS]

01:56:31   weird chairs and yeah none of them I [TS]

01:56:35   couldn't like I I finally found like the [TS]

01:56:36   one that fit me right in the office and [TS]

01:56:39   like it was like a red state perfect [TS]

01:56:41   situation like occasionally like when [TS]

01:56:43   somebody would be in the office and like [TS]

01:56:45   take my chair some other desk and would [TS]

01:56:47   like put some other chair back at my [TS]

01:56:48   desk when they were done I would notice [TS]

01:56:50   him you know make my chair like this is [TS]

01:56:52   a problem when I was when I was out for [TS]

01:56:54   work during the summer like we moved all [TS]

01:56:56   everyone in the whole building and I I [TS]

01:57:02   as I always do put labels on my chair [TS]

01:57:05   like this is my chair or whatever and I [TS]

01:57:07   came back to like set up my new stuff at [TS]

01:57:10   my new desk and to put on my new [TS]

01:57:11   keyboard tray like two days into my you [TS]

01:57:14   know long break my chair was there and [TS]

01:57:16   then I came back at the end of the the [TS]

01:57:19   summer to come back for good chair was [TS]

01:57:20   gone like no like no my co-workers I [TS]

01:57:23   said like I said them and they're like [TS]

01:57:25   watch my chair and like haha yeah John [TS]

01:57:27   in his chair like no seriously you [TS]

01:57:29   should have watched my chair I have [TS]

01:57:31   searched the entire floor and to go into [TS]

01:57:33   every conference room and eventually I [TS]

01:57:34   found that it was like it was totally [TS]

01:57:36   like missed you guys both Wade missed I [TS]

01:57:39   I played for like ten minutes so I [TS]

01:57:41   didn't actually bear anything everyone [TS]

01:57:43   in the chat room who hasn't played miss [TS]

01:57:44   close your ears isn't miss spoiler [TS]

01:57:46   it was just like missed in it 2017 I [TS]

01:57:50   totally can I thought I had checked [TS]

01:57:54   every single conference room for my [TS]

01:57:56   chair and it's easy to recognize guess [TS]

01:57:58   what it's the one with no arms on it [TS]

01:57:59   right it's a particular variety of chair [TS]

01:58:01   it's an older been at the company for a [TS]

01:58:03   long time but it's the only one in the [TS]

01:58:05   office with no arms on it so it should [TS]

01:58:07   be easy to find and I had checked [TS]

01:58:08   everywhere and I was like asking people [TS]

01:58:10   around have you seen my chair like where [TS]

01:58:12   could it have gone it was you had to go [TS]

01:58:14   into one of the marks you're constant [TS]

01:58:16   for conference rooms and then turn [TS]

01:58:18   around and look at the door you came [TS]

01:58:20   through and against the wall next the [TS]

01:58:22   door hidden behind the thing right [TS]

01:58:23   because you just go into a room and you [TS]

01:58:25   don't think turn around and look the [TS]

01:58:26   doorway you just came through that's [TS]

01:58:28   where it was there's like behind the [TS]

01:58:30   open door to the conference room you [TS]

01:58:31   come in you open the door and the door [TS]

01:58:33   blocks your view of the chair and I [TS]

01:58:35   found it and this is after I feel bad [TS]

01:58:36   this is after I took one of the chairs [TS]

01:58:37   of a similar model and remove the arms [TS]

01:58:40   he said I'm gonna I'm gonna make a new [TS]

01:58:42   fact simply on my old chair but it [TS]

01:58:43   wasn't the same like it was it was a [TS]

01:58:45   similar model but not exactly the same [TS]

01:58:47   model and I couldn't remember like my [TS]

01:58:50   butt's been in that chair at work for [TS]

01:58:51   eight years okay here's a but time and [TS]

01:58:53   that cherry there was a so I thank God I [TS]

01:58:57   found it and and I remember when I found [TS]

01:59:00   it that I had to put like puffy stickers [TS]

01:59:01   of animals on it even further reinforce [TS]

01:59:04   that it's mine like on the back of it so [TS]

01:59:06   it is totally my red stapler at work if [TS]

01:59:09   I could chain it to my desk I would [TS]