The Accidental Tech Podcast

244: The Mac Renaissance


00:00:00   oh did you ever modify last week's show [TS]

00:00:01   notes mark when I had a bet going to see [TS]

00:00:03   when you would nothing [TS]

00:00:09   nothing dad don't look I'll look dad [TS]

00:00:10   don't look dad it's fine dad free show [TS]

00:00:15   Mike oh is it the title because it's all [TS]

00:00:16   like small caps on the website so I [TS]

00:00:18   can't tell if that title no no do you [TS]

00:00:20   still have your dollar signs in your [TS]

00:00:21   menu market is here have you fixed that [TS]

00:00:23   no I fixed it during recording oh yeah [TS]

00:00:25   okay you can play about the emoji foam [TS]

00:00:29   oh no yeah you you've already skipped [TS]

00:00:31   over it then tell me Sonos and google [TS]

00:00:36   sitting in a tree anchor and amazon kis [TS]

00:00:38   s ing you mess it up by putting the word [TS]

00:00:41   are in there are is not in the nursery [TS]

00:00:44   rhyme that is true that's all I can play [TS]

00:00:46   it about I have no problem with you [TS]

00:00:47   doing a cute thing in the show notes I [TS]

00:00:49   have a problem with you not knowing how [TS]

00:00:51   the KS Society song goes it would be [TS]

00:00:55   Sonos and Google sitting in a tree [TS]

00:00:57   ellipsis next line would be canker in [TS]

00:01:02   Amazon like have you not you messed it [TS]

00:01:03   up but it was two different topics I was [TS]

00:01:05   trying to I was trying to wrestle it [TS]

00:01:07   away well you blew it you blow it I'm [TS]

00:01:13   speaking to you two fine gentlemen [TS]

00:01:14   tonight from the peaks of High Sierra as [TS]

00:01:17   am I actually but for a bad reason well [TS]

00:01:20   that's surprising yeah well yeah epithet [TS]

00:01:24   and that should be a topic today I just [TS]

00:01:26   put it in and I now have moved it up to [TS]

00:01:29   the top but we can't get there yet [TS]

00:01:30   because we have to do some follow-up so [TS]

00:01:32   since we already are enticing the [TS]

00:01:35   listeners let's just dive right in John [TS]

00:01:37   can you tell me about Sky platform [TS]

00:01:39   exclusivity if you please [TS]

00:01:41   speculated in the last show that that [TS]

00:01:44   Sky's exclusivity to the Apple TV would [TS]

00:01:47   be just like every other exclusive in [TS]

00:01:49   the gaming world a timed exclusive and [TS]

00:01:51   that is actually confirmed on that game [TS]

00:01:52   company's website it says arriving first [TS]

00:01:55   on iPhone iPad and Apple TV additional [TS]

00:01:57   platforms to follow no time window given [TS]

00:02:00   but we'll see how that goes so I might [TS]

00:02:02   just be able to hold out until it comes [TS]

00:02:03   out on you know ps4 or whatever and tell [TS]

00:02:06   me about your chair please I have my [TS]

00:02:08   chair my ridiculously expensive [TS]

00:02:10   Herman Miller chair that [TS]

00:02:12   I've been sitting on since like the last [TS]

00:02:14   show that where we talked about it or [TS]

00:02:16   maybe two shows ago I forget but I just [TS]

00:02:18   want to give an update on how that's [TS]

00:02:19   going so I did take off both of the arms [TS]

00:02:22   I had to order another Torx wrench [TS]

00:02:24   because the one that I had couldn't fit [TS]

00:02:26   in a little space or whatever but it's [TS]

00:02:28   go is good to have more allen keys and [TS]

00:02:30   torque wrenches you know in in metric [TS]

00:02:32   and standards and all sorts of sizes [TS]

00:02:34   torques it just comes in its own little [TS]

00:02:36   sizes t3 is what I needed anyway [TS]

00:02:40   arms are off 30 I forget anyway one of [TS]

00:02:44   them I don't think it matters it matters [TS]

00:02:45   if you want to take the arms off your [TS]

00:02:47   chair I had a set of Torx Torx wrench [TS]

00:02:50   things but they didn't fit and they [TS]

00:02:52   don't make it a couple of those screws [TS]

00:02:54   are hard to get out because the levers [TS]

00:02:55   they come out to do that adjust the [TS]

00:02:57   cedar kind of in the way but it's not [TS]

00:02:58   that bad just Amazon or some home so [TS]

00:03:01   I've been sitting in that chair for a [TS]

00:03:02   while and I have of just some follow-up [TS]

00:03:04   impressions of it I like it you know [TS]

00:03:08   it's it takes a little bit of getting [TS]

00:03:10   used to because it feel like regular [TS]

00:03:11   chairs but I think I've settled into it [TS]

00:03:13   pretty well two things about it have [TS]

00:03:16   annoyed me so far one there is an [TS]

00:03:17   adjustment on it to make the seat length [TS]

00:03:20   like basically from the back to the [TS]

00:03:22   front of the seat to it to make it [TS]

00:03:23   longer which is great for people with [TS]

00:03:24   long legs like me because you're not [TS]

00:03:26   supposed to have like half your leg [TS]

00:03:27   hanging off the front of the thing so [TS]

00:03:29   you can make the seat longer I wish more [TS]

00:03:31   cars had that some of them do some cars [TS]

00:03:33   actually have this adjustment to sort of [TS]

00:03:34   support your legs more you know more [TS]

00:03:38   down towards your knee they say you're [TS]

00:03:39   supposed to have like you know two [TS]

00:03:40   inches between the back of your knee or [TS]

00:03:43   the back of your calf or whatever and [TS]

00:03:44   then the seat front so the her Miller [TS]

00:03:47   and body has two big handles that you [TS]

00:03:49   can grab and slide out the front part of [TS]

00:03:51   the chair which I do but unless you are [TS]

00:03:55   in a situation where you're sharing your [TS]

00:03:57   chair with somebody else and constantly [TS]

00:03:59   switching back and forth this like many [TS]

00:04:01   of the adjustments on chairs is [TS]

00:04:02   something that you'll do once or twice [TS]

00:04:05   in the beginning when you're getting [TS]

00:04:06   used to the chair and you'll eventually [TS]

00:04:07   decide what adjustment setting is right [TS]

00:04:10   for me there's only a few choices there [TS]

00:04:11   there's not like an infinite [TS]

00:04:12   adjustability and you find how the seat [TS]

00:04:15   is come feel for you and you leave it [TS]

00:04:16   there but for the entire time you own [TS]

00:04:19   this chair these two Mickey Mouse ears [TS]

00:04:22   coffee cup mug handles are going to be [TS]

00:04:25   sticking out the [TS]

00:04:26   of your chair and every time I get into [TS]

00:04:27   and out of my chair somehow I bump into [TS]

00:04:30   those things they're like ears like [TS]

00:04:31   useless ears fossilized ears poking out [TS]

00:04:34   at the front of the chair and I don't [TS]

00:04:36   like that [TS]

00:04:36   second thing is since I have it extended [TS]

00:04:39   almost as far as it will go I think [TS]

00:04:40   maybe I do have as far as it will go for [TS]

00:04:42   my long legs there's like a little bit [TS]

00:04:44   of a creak enos in the front of the [TS]

00:04:46   chair as that a little telescoping thing [TS]

00:04:48   kind of flexes and it's in its plastic [TS]

00:04:50   grooves [TS]

00:04:51   maybe that squeak will go away over time [TS]

00:04:53   maybe it won't but it's not a sort of [TS]

00:04:56   it's not a sound any feeling that [TS]

00:04:59   matches up with the price of this chair [TS]

00:05:01   so I really like that and then the final [TS]

00:05:03   thing there's a lot of stuff under this [TS]

00:05:05   chair for all of these spring-loaded [TS]

00:05:07   like mechanisms that handle the thing [TS]

00:05:10   where you lean back in the chair and [TS]

00:05:12   some of it probably also handles like [TS]

00:05:15   the the back tension and then there's [TS]

00:05:16   the gas cylinder thing for the height of [TS]

00:05:18   the chair that giant box of works that's [TS]

00:05:21   basically under your butt takes up a [TS]

00:05:23   surprising amount of room and you say [TS]

00:05:25   who cares about that room nothing's [TS]

00:05:26   going on on to your chair right well [TS]

00:05:27   apparently I'm someone who occasionally [TS]

00:05:30   crosses his legs and shoves both his [TS]

00:05:33   feet underneath the bottom of the seat [TS]

00:05:34   resting them on the top of the little [TS]

00:05:36   leg thingies and I didn't know I did [TS]

00:05:39   this as much as I do [TS]

00:05:40   until my heel started hitting that giant [TS]

00:05:42   box that I'm now sitting on and I [TS]

00:05:44   suppose I could get used to it but I'm [TS]

00:05:46   still hitting my heels in that box [TS]

00:05:47   surprising amount of time just like I [TS]

00:05:49   kind of wish I kind of wish that wasn't [TS]

00:05:51   there I kind of wish I had that free [TS]

00:05:52   space to shove my feet into again so [TS]

00:05:56   that's my update on the embody mostly I [TS]

00:05:58   like it [TS]

00:05:58   I think definitely gonna keep it but I [TS]

00:06:02   I'm sitting right now on the steel case [TS]

00:06:05   gesture chair which just arrived today [TS]

00:06:07   this still has arms on it and they're [TS]

00:06:10   gonna be much more difficult to take off [TS]

00:06:11   I'm already puzzling over how I'm going [TS]

00:06:13   to manage this but for now the arms are [TS]

00:06:14   on and I'm sitting on it definitely [TS]

00:06:16   feels different than the embody but and [TS]

00:06:20   and it has right away its adjustment for [TS]

00:06:23   the length of the seat is to move the [TS]

00:06:25   entire seat forward so it's all just one [TS]

00:06:26   unit there's no extended bit it has less [TS]

00:06:28   creaky bits on it and there's more room [TS]

00:06:31   underneath it for me to cross my legs [TS]

00:06:32   but it definitely feels different than [TS]

00:06:35   the embody feels more like a normal [TS]

00:06:36   chair and I'm not sure if I like it as [TS]

00:06:38   much [TS]

00:06:38   the embody but I'm just sitting in it [TS]

00:06:40   for five minutes here so probably make [TS]

00:06:42   sure I'll have a more longer-term update [TS]

00:06:44   on the comparison to these two chairs [TS]

00:06:46   and I better hurry up because I got like [TS]

00:06:47   30 days for both of them to decide [TS]

00:06:49   whether I want my bazillion dollars back [TS]

00:06:52   for these chairs so last episode I was [TS]

00:06:56   lamenting the fact that if you have an [TS]

00:06:58   issue with your Google pixel phone you [TS]

00:07:00   can get online and you can tell Google [TS]

00:07:03   hey I've got an issue and they'll [TS]

00:07:05   overnight you a box with a replacement [TS]

00:07:06   pixel and then you put your broken pixel [TS]

00:07:09   into the box and ship it back to them [TS]

00:07:11   and I thought man that would be really [TS]

00:07:13   awesome to be able to do that with Apple [TS]

00:07:15   I wish that was a thing and a handful [TS]

00:07:17   people wrote in to say it is a thing [TS]

00:07:20   so John Tooker pointed me to Apple Care [TS]

00:07:23   Plus Xpress replacement service which is [TS]

00:07:26   if you have Apple Care plus a way that [TS]

00:07:30   you can basically do the exact same [TS]

00:07:31   thing they ship you a box and then you [TS]

00:07:33   put your thing in the box that the new [TS]

00:07:35   thing came in etc there's a joke here [TS]

00:07:37   from Saturday Night Live that I'm trying [TS]

00:07:38   to avoid anyway pram wrote in to say [TS]

00:07:42   I've done this and here's what it looks [TS]

00:07:44   like and so we'll put a link to that in [TS]

00:07:45   the show notes and it's exactly what you [TS]

00:07:47   would expect to see so turns out this is [TS]

00:07:50   an option I just had no idea which if [TS]

00:07:51   you live far away for an Apple Store [TS]

00:07:53   which most of the country probably does [TS]

00:07:55   that's pretty awesome and then [TS]

00:07:58   additionally via pram they pointed me to [TS]

00:08:01   a kbase article hi Steven entitled how [TS]

00:08:05   to use your Apple watch without your [TS]

00:08:07   iPhone nearby and it says a handful of [TS]

00:08:09   things in there but one of the things it [TS]

00:08:11   says is to receive SMS mms or push [TS]

00:08:14   notifications from third-party apps [TS]

00:08:16   you're on your Apple watch Series three [TS]

00:08:18   GPS and cellular you're paired iPhone [TS]

00:08:20   must be powered on and connected to [TS]

00:08:22   Wi-Fi or cellular but it doesn't need to [TS]

00:08:23   be nearby so that kind of hints to me [TS]

00:08:27   that that Apple is proxying push [TS]

00:08:31   notifications I have since heard reports [TS]

00:08:33   that whatsapp I believe that's what it [TS]

00:08:35   what the app was I know that that is an [TS]

00:08:38   app I just can't remember what people [TS]

00:08:39   were citing but a handful of people [TS]

00:08:41   cited something and I think it was [TS]

00:08:42   whatsapp as not having an Apple watch [TS]

00:08:44   app at all [TS]

00:08:45   yet people receiving push notifications [TS]

00:08:48   via cellular additionally the developers [TS]

00:08:51   of do [TS]

00:08:52   actually wrote us to say do useless [TS]

00:08:55   local notifications [TS]

00:08:56   I think the scheduled notifications were [TS]

00:08:58   copied from the iPhone to the watch the [TS]

00:09:00   last time they talked and I think one of [TS]

00:09:01   us had had theorized that that may be [TS]

00:09:03   the case but it sure sounds like and I [TS]

00:09:06   have since gotten tacit confirmation [TS]

00:09:08   from a couple of little birdies that [TS]

00:09:09   Apple is indeed proxying push [TS]

00:09:11   notifications via I guess iCloud or [TS]

00:09:13   something in order for watch your [TS]

00:09:15   cellular watch to receive push [TS]

00:09:16   notifications even if it's not in range [TS]

00:09:18   I have I I have had several people [TS]

00:09:21   explain to me that I'm a moron in that [TS]

00:09:23   actually Bluetooth works very far and [TS]

00:09:25   I'm a moron that the watch was on Wi-Fi [TS]

00:09:28   but I assure you I checked to see what [TS]

00:09:31   the watch says it was on and it said it [TS]

00:09:33   was on cellular at the time so yes I'm [TS]

00:09:36   aware that the watch does work on [TS]

00:09:39   Bluetooth and Bluetooth works further [TS]

00:09:41   away than one would expect I understand [TS]

00:09:43   it works on Wi-Fi I don't know why it [TS]

00:09:44   wasn't on Wi-Fi in this particular [TS]

00:09:46   instance but if the watch said it was on [TS]

00:09:48   cellular and I am inclined to believe [TS]

00:09:50   the watch so in summary it sure does [TS]

00:09:52   sound like that Apple is proxying iPhone [TS]

00:09:54   push notifications which is pretty cool [TS]

00:09:56   we are sponsored this week by a way for [TS]

00:09:59   $20 off your suitcase visit away travel [TS]

00:10:02   calm slash ATP and use promo code ATP [TS]

00:10:06   during checkout away makes high quality [TS]

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00:10:12   modern age they use high quality [TS]

00:10:14   materials while offering much lower [TS]

00:10:16   price as compared to other brands by [TS]

00:10:18   cutting out middlemen and selling [TS]

00:10:19   directly to you they now offer nine [TS]

00:10:21   colors and four sizes from carry-ons all [TS]

00:10:25   the way up to giant suitcases for long [TS]

00:10:27   stays all their suitcases are made with [TS]

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00:10:31   in strength and impact resistance and [TS]

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00:10:36   which really helps for over packers they [TS]

00:10:38   have four spinning wheels that guarantee [TS]

00:10:40   a smooth ride and easy maneuverability [TS]

00:10:43   all of them have TSA approved [TS]

00:10:44   combination locks and they have [TS]

00:10:46   removable washable laundry bags to help [TS]

00:10:48   keep your dirty clothes separate from [TS]

00:10:50   your clean and the carry-on sizes are [TS]

00:10:52   also able to charge cell phones tablets [TS]

00:10:54   and anything else powered by a USB cable [TS]

00:10:57   because they have built-in batteries a [TS]

00:10:59   single charge of the built-in battery on [TS]

00:11:01   the away carry-on will charge your [TS]

00:11:03   iPhone five times [TS]

00:11:05   all of this is protected by a lifetime [TS]

00:11:07   warranty if anything breaks they'll [TS]

00:11:09   replace or fix it for life you can get [TS]

00:11:12   all this for yourself with a hundred day [TS]

00:11:14   trial get an away suitcase you can live [TS]

00:11:17   with it you can even travel with it [TS]

00:11:19   obviously because that's how you try out [TS]

00:11:20   a suitcase right travel with it for a [TS]

00:11:22   hundred days and if you decide it is not [TS]

00:11:24   right for you you can return it for a [TS]

00:11:26   full refund with no questions asked [TS]

00:11:28   check that today you can get free [TS]

00:11:30   shipping on any away order within the [TS]

00:11:32   lower 48 states to the US and they even [TS]

00:11:34   have a showroom in New York City if you [TS]

00:11:36   want to see them in person so check it [TS]

00:11:38   out today [TS]

00:11:38   Attaway travel.com slash ATP and you'll [TS]

00:11:41   get $20 off your suitcase use promo code [TS]

00:11:44   ATP during checkout once again away [TS]

00:11:47   travel calm / ATP and use promo code ATP [TS]

00:11:50   for 20 bucks off your suitcase thank you [TS]

00:11:52   so much - a way for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:11:55   [Music] [TS]

00:11:57   moving on to ask ATP Jason Townsend [TS]

00:12:02   writes in for those who run Plex on a [TS]

00:12:04   Mac how do you run it with no logged in [TS]

00:12:06   user and I can speak for myself and say [TS]

00:12:09   I don't it is running as part of my user [TS]

00:12:12   that that I'm using right now on this [TS]

00:12:15   very Mac and this users pretty much [TS]

00:12:16   always logged in and that's ok for me it [TS]

00:12:20   may not be okay for you listener but [TS]

00:12:22   it's okay for me I was hoping you had an [TS]

00:12:23   answer to this that's why I put it in [TS]

00:12:24   there I'm like okay she probably knows [TS]

00:12:25   how to do the same thing it's running as [TS]

00:12:28   actually running is my wife's user and [TS]

00:12:31   she's oh he's logged in now here's the [TS]

00:12:34   thing you don't have to be logged in but [TS]

00:12:38   you don't have to be the frontmost user [TS]

00:12:39   so if one of my kids comes up and do [TS]

00:12:41   this doing their homework on their [TS]

00:12:42   account on the same computer as long as [TS]

00:12:44   my wife is logged in in the background [TS]

00:12:46   Plex still works and runs so you don't [TS]

00:12:47   have to leave their account as the [TS]

00:12:49   frontmost but if there's a way to run it [TS]

00:12:52   without you being logged in like cron it [TS]

00:12:53   and run it as you know some other user [TS]

00:12:55   with no GUI or whatever I have honestly [TS]

00:12:59   I haven't even tried to do it but maybe [TS]

00:13:01   have you tried anything Casey are you [TS]

00:13:03   just like yeah well I guess I'm always [TS]

00:13:04   logged in so I have no need for this [TS]

00:13:05   exactly right I have no need for it [TS]

00:13:08   yeah so I say we're not gonna say that [TS]

00:13:09   it can't be done just that neither of us [TS]

00:13:12   has tried to do it Marco I assume the [TS]

00:13:14   same yeah I mean to me I the the idea of [TS]

00:13:17   running it like with [TS]

00:13:18   not having a logged in user basically [TS]

00:13:20   like as root never even occurred to me [TS]

00:13:22   because that's not how I would think to [TS]

00:13:25   run things that are on a Mac in a server [TS]

00:13:27   role like even though I know there are [TS]

00:13:29   things that Mac's can do as a server [TS]

00:13:31   with no user like you know the built-in [TS]

00:13:33   Apache server and stuff like that many [TS]

00:13:35   of the things that you would run a Mac [TS]

00:13:37   server for require there to be some kind [TS]

00:13:39   of application in user space running to [TS]

00:13:42   serve those tasks so the idea of running [TS]

00:13:45   a Mac in some kind of server role [TS]

00:13:47   without a logged in user and has never [TS]

00:13:49   even occurred to me to even think about [TS]

00:13:52   yeah I know that was not the answer that [TS]

00:13:54   you were looking for Jason and I'm sorry [TS]

00:13:56   that is the answer for us and if you [TS]

00:13:58   happen to know how to do this I would be [TS]

00:14:00   curious to hear it's not really solving [TS]

00:14:02   a need that I have but I'd be curious to [TS]

00:14:03   hear so I do write in and let us know [TS]

00:14:05   and Jason as well Tom Meyers asks could [TS]

00:14:09   you guys help explain why a massively [TS]

00:14:10   multi-core arm Mac Pro oh never mind we [TS]

00:14:13   don't have to talk about this moving on [TS]

00:14:16   for not picking the question I actually [TS]

00:14:18   meant to earlier today and I got [TS]

00:14:20   sidetracked at work and never did and [TS]

00:14:21   actually to be honest I'm curious to [TS]

00:14:23   hear your answer to this John so let me [TS]

00:14:24   let me reread it could you guys help [TS]

00:14:26   explain why I'm a swing multi-core arm [TS]

00:14:28   Mac Pro wouldn't be viable a sixty-four [TS]

00:14:31   core etc a 11x architecture for example [TS]

00:14:34   so it would be viable but we talked [TS]

00:14:36   about this on the show before there's a [TS]

00:14:39   couple of aspects of this you know so we [TS]

00:14:42   all know that Apple makes really fast [TS]

00:14:43   system ownerships for their phones and [TS]

00:14:45   they make even faster ones that they use [TS]

00:14:47   in their iPads and the number of cores [TS]

00:14:49   on them has been increasing from one and [TS]

00:14:51   now out there up to four and the in the [TS]

00:14:53   phone right is it four I forget it's [TS]

00:14:55   well is it with the eight series it's [TS]

00:14:57   now six six you got that you got the [TS]

00:14:59   four slow ones and the two fast ones [TS]

00:15:01   yeah anyway that's a lot of cores it's [TS]

00:15:03   more than they had before but as we [TS]

00:15:06   discussed last time this came up to make [TS]

00:15:09   something that doesn't you know it's not [TS]

00:15:12   like a little system on a chip that it [TS]

00:15:14   takes iPad power but instead takes 150 [TS]

00:15:16   watts or something like a you know a [TS]

00:15:17   Xeon class CPU that's a very different [TS]

00:15:22   kind of design you can't say well [TS]

00:15:24   because we've made a chip for the iPad [TS]

00:15:26   that's faster than all of our laptops [TS]

00:15:28   right there are all faster than our [TS]

00:15:30   cheap laptops we [TS]

00:15:32   we've done all the work to make the Seon [TS]

00:15:34   class thing and you haven't there's a [TS]

00:15:35   lot more that goes into making a zeon [TS]

00:15:37   class CPU than just saying oh we have a [TS]

00:15:40   quorum we'll just multiply it out it's [TS]

00:15:41   like a GPU where you just you know take [TS]

00:15:43   the execution unit and just add more of [TS]

00:15:44   them and even that gets more complicated [TS]

00:15:46   there's tons of things having to do with [TS]

00:15:48   IO and PCI Express Lanes and figuring [TS]

00:15:50   out the whole Thunderbolt thing and the [TS]

00:15:53   various chipsets not to mention all the [TS]

00:15:55   the multiple cores and the cache [TS]

00:15:57   coherency and the ECC Ram and all sorts [TS]

00:15:59   of other things that you know it's not [TS]

00:16:01   to say they couldn't do it they would [TS]

00:16:03   I'm sure they would do an excellent job [TS]

00:16:04   it's just to say that they by having [TS]

00:16:07   lappa by having an iPad and phone ships [TS]

00:16:09   they haven't done all the work so if [TS]

00:16:12   they wanted to make one they could but [TS]

00:16:15   it's a lot of additional work and the [TS]

00:16:17   question you've always had is is it [TS]

00:16:18   worthwhile for Apple to do all that [TS]

00:16:20   additional work to essentially compete [TS]

00:16:22   with Zeon's for a line of computers that [TS]

00:16:25   they sell very very few of compared to [TS]

00:16:27   anything else so maybe that's the answer [TS]

00:16:32   to the viability question technically [TS]

00:16:33   viable sure but Apple would have to do a [TS]

00:16:35   ton of work financially viable can Apple [TS]

00:16:37   justify that ton of work maybe they will [TS]

00:16:39   eventually because I mean as people have [TS]

00:16:41   been benchmarking the new iPhone 8 and 8 [TS]

00:16:44   plus against Mac laptops like modern Mac [TS]

00:16:47   laptops that you can buy right now that [TS]

00:16:49   are not like last year's models and [TS]

00:16:51   seeing how fast the the system-on-a-chip [TS]

00:16:53   is the case for arm powered Mac laptops [TS]

00:16:58   is getting stronger and stronger but the [TS]

00:17:01   case for arm powered Mac Pro's I mean if [TS]

00:17:04   Apple started this project four years [TS]

00:17:06   ago and has a Xeon class arm CPU waiting [TS]

00:17:08   in the wings for like next year's Mac [TS]

00:17:10   Pro then fine but if there haven't [TS]

00:17:11   started that project now you're not [TS]

00:17:14   gonna see one of these for a long time [TS]

00:17:15   it would cost a lot of money it would [TS]

00:17:17   take a lot of time and honestly I feel [TS]

00:17:22   like Intel does pretty well in the high [TS]

00:17:24   end perhaps better than they do in the [TS]

00:17:26   low end and the laptop space so [TS]

00:17:28   best-case scenario Apple makes something [TS]

00:17:30   that is some singles a double digit [TS]

00:17:32   percentage faster than Intel and you [TS]

00:17:35   don't really get a lot of extra points [TS]

00:17:36   for doing it with less power and is the [TS]

00:17:39   on class thing because you know you're [TS]

00:17:41   not running them off battery like the [TS]

00:17:42   whole point of these machines is they're [TS]

00:17:43   plugged into the wall and it's like a [TS]

00:17:45   huge amount of power going into them for [TS]

00:17:48   to power everything the RAM or you know [TS]

00:17:50   the GPU the separate GPU the multiple [TS]

00:17:52   GPUs and stuff like that so no I think [TS]

00:17:56   it's viable but it may not be [TS]

00:17:59   financially the best thing for Apple to [TS]

00:18:01   do and they have a lot of work to do [TS]

00:18:02   I'm still super curious to see if to one [TS]

00:18:07   day discover if we'll ever see a ARM [TS]

00:18:09   based MacBook Pro certainly Marco has [TS]

00:18:12   thoughts about MacBook Pros these days [TS]

00:18:14   mm-hmm [TS]

00:18:15   I didn't actually put that in as a topic [TS]

00:18:17   but we can't talk about that often but [TS]

00:18:19   before we leave this the I would be [TS]

00:18:22   super excited to see I think everybody [TS]

00:18:23   would be every computer nerd would be [TS]

00:18:25   like someone wants to compete with [TS]

00:18:28   high-end CPUs with Intel and that would [TS]

00:18:30   be great and like I said Apple has shown [TS]

00:18:32   that it's got really good talent to make [TS]

00:18:34   you know it's just a question of will [TS]

00:18:36   does Apple want to make a chip like this [TS]

00:18:37   because if they want to I bet they can [TS]

00:18:40   do a really good job and it would be [TS]

00:18:41   super cool but it still strikes me as [TS]

00:18:44   one of those fantasies like you know the [TS]

00:18:46   pale oak are kind of fantasy of like [TS]

00:18:48   apples gonna make everything its own and [TS]

00:18:51   it's gonna make a special computer [TS]

00:18:52   that's faster than anybody else's [TS]

00:18:53   because you know make their own CPU and [TS]

00:18:55   that would be super cool but I just feel [TS]

00:18:58   like it's still pipe dream let's baby [TS]

00:18:59   steps let's get let's get a new Mac Pro [TS]

00:19:01   sometime this century and then we'll [TS]

00:19:03   think about putting a 64 core ARM chip [TS]

00:19:07   in it [TS]

00:19:08   Richard Ernie writes in and asks a [TS]

00:19:11   disturbingly reasonable question and [TS]

00:19:14   that question is how many iMac pros do [TS]

00:19:17   you think Marco will buy before the [TS]

00:19:19   launch of the Mac Pro I have an either [TS]

00:19:21   I'd also have an answer okay I feel like [TS]

00:19:26   the answer should be one because you [TS]

00:19:30   will presumably buy the most expensive [TS]

00:19:33   and most ridiculous iMac pro you [TS]

00:19:36   possibly can in the way only Marco can [TS]

00:19:38   do and that should be it [TS]

00:19:40   but I fear you will somehow talked [TS]

00:19:43   yourself into oh this one thing I really [TS]

00:19:46   don't need and or will make it worse so [TS]

00:19:48   like as an example the dual graphics [TS]

00:19:51   card MacBook Pros I know there won't be [TS]

00:19:53   a direct equivalent of that in the iMac [TS]

00:19:54   Pro but something along those lines well [TS]

00:19:56   I understand that the dual graphics card [TS]

00:19:59   Macca pros are hypothetically better but [TS]

00:20:01   they're better in ways that don't matter [TS]

00:20:03   to me so I won't get the maxed out top [TS]

00:20:05   line MacBook Pro instead I'll get a [TS]

00:20:07   different MacBook Pro so that is the one [TS]

00:20:10   I don't know like wild card if you [TS]

00:20:13   somehow convince yourself that oh maybe [TS]

00:20:15   I don't need the cranked to 11 version [TS]

00:20:18   of the iMac Pro then I could see you in [TS]

00:20:21   for two because the first one will be [TS]

00:20:22   the the oh I don't need everything and [TS]

00:20:25   then you'll decide oh that was a [TS]

00:20:26   terrible mistake I need everything and [TS]

00:20:28   then you'll get the one you should've [TS]

00:20:29   gotten in the first place [TS]

00:20:30   John so you're you're overthinking it [TS]

00:20:31   but also under thinking it my answer so [TS]

00:20:39   he's overthinking it because he's got [TS]

00:20:41   his answer of one but then he's hedging [TS]

00:20:42   and what about two you're also under [TS]

00:20:44   thing you're forgetting a very important [TS]

00:20:46   factor when I read this question I had [TS]

00:20:48   an immediate answer and the answer is he [TS]

00:20:49   will buy two before the launch of the [TS]

00:20:51   macro why will he buy two because he'll [TS]

00:20:52   get one because he's impatient and he'll [TS]

00:20:54   buy one for TIF goodbye to iMac pros [TS]

00:20:59   before the Mac Pro you're right that is [TS]

00:21:02   the answer so Marco not that not that it [TS]

00:21:04   matters because you're gonna be wrong [TS]

00:21:06   but what do you think the answer is I [TS]

00:21:08   think the answer is most likely to be [TS]

00:21:12   one but might be zero [TS]

00:21:13   oh I call foul right now somebody marked [TS]

00:21:16   this date down I said most likely one [TS]

00:21:19   explained okay so in John way I'll tell [TS]

00:21:22   you that you're both right and wrong and [TS]

00:21:24   John is both wrong and right [TS]

00:21:27   so the generous plan that would happy [TS]

00:21:30   buying one is I buy one for myself when [TS]

00:21:34   the Mac Pro comes out I give it to TIFF [TS]

00:21:36   and I get myself a Mac Pro the case for [TS]

00:21:39   maybe being 0 it basically leads into [TS]

00:21:42   the first topic that we have on this [TS]

00:21:43   list which is labeled in the chat why is [TS]

00:21:45   Marco on his MacBook Pro and the reason [TS]

00:21:49   why is because my iMac has some issues [TS]

00:21:51   that I wanted to get repaired in the 8 [TS]

00:21:55   days left in the warranty I mean spiders [TS]

00:21:57   good call you know one of those is that [TS]

00:22:00   the screen has image retention that that [TS]

00:22:02   is probably the biggest issue the issue [TS]

00:22:04   that like for long term value and the [TS]

00:22:08   ability to sell it for a reasonable [TS]

00:22:09   price when I'm done with it [TS]

00:22:10   I want to get that fixed [TS]

00:22:12   the screen has a screen only issue I am [TS]

00:22:16   currently without my main desktop [TS]

00:22:18   computer for probably a week maybe a [TS]

00:22:21   little bit less I'm lucky and that is [TS]

00:22:23   horrible like it's incredibly disruptive [TS]

00:22:25   so I have let me show you my desktop [TS]

00:22:28   setup here I pasted the link in the chat [TS]

00:22:29   so the picture I've just shown you is my [TS]

00:22:31   is what I am it's like the old times you [TS]

00:22:43   need some soda can yeah I'm currently [TS]

00:22:46   very much not satisfied with owning an [TS]

00:22:49   iMac as my primary computer because as [TS]

00:22:51   much as I miss the crap out of it I [TS]

00:22:54   really wish it was separate from the [TS]

00:22:56   screen because then if something went [TS]

00:22:58   wrong with the screen I could just get [TS]

00:23:01   the screen fixed if something went wrong [TS]

00:23:03   with the Mac Pro I could plug in a [TS]

00:23:06   laptop to the screen on my desk and use [TS]

00:23:08   that as a stand-in desktop all I got the [TS]

00:23:10   desktop serviced but you're not enough [TS]

00:23:12   of a hardware hoarder to have extra [TS]

00:23:13   screens around so say it was separating [TS]

00:23:15   you just had to get the screen repaired [TS]

00:23:16   you'd have a headless computer with no [TS]

00:23:18   screen and you still have to use your [TS]

00:23:19   laptop because what are you gonna hook [TS]

00:23:20   up the body of your computer to well I [TS]

00:23:23   could get another screen like I could I [TS]

00:23:25   could please like overnight another [TS]

00:23:26   screen I forgot it but buying solves [TS]

00:23:28   everything buying solver an ice cream [TS]

00:23:30   get the other one fixed and that's [TS]

00:23:32   harder to do when it's time act like I'm [TS]

00:23:33   not gonna buy a whole new iMac to use [TS]

00:23:34   for a week and then return it or sell it [TS]

00:23:36   but you but you'd buy a new 5k monitor [TS]

00:23:39   four thousand bucks no problem [TS]

00:23:40   maybe honestly if I'm losing a week of [TS]

00:23:44   productivity here using my laptop as the [TS]

00:23:46   as my only computer it's it and like [TS]

00:23:48   trying to do iOS development on this [TS]

00:23:51   it's crazy [TS]

00:23:52   whoa you're not you're not losing a week [TS]

00:23:55   you're not losing a week you are you are [TS]

00:23:57   perfectly capable of being productive [TS]

00:23:58   you're just you're too fussy to want to [TS]

00:24:01   do no I am doing it like I am powering [TS]

00:24:03   through and doing it but it's exactly [TS]

00:24:05   and it's it's it's at substantial [TS]

00:24:08   reduction of productivity to have I to [TS]

00:24:11   lose you know eight inches of screen [TS]

00:24:13   space for a while so it's not great at [TS]

00:24:18   times like this I really make a mental [TS]

00:24:21   note to say just buy the desktop next [TS]

00:24:23   time like just like just buy the Mac Pro [TS]

00:24:24   next time so I really [TS]

00:24:26   like the the idea of spending a lot of [TS]

00:24:29   money on an iMac Pro that might [TS]

00:24:34   potentially still have that you know [TS]

00:24:35   that would still have this limitation of [TS]

00:24:37   like if anything goes wrong with it I [TS]

00:24:38   lose everything for the time it takes to [TS]

00:24:40   get a service also you know the sign Mac [TS]

00:24:44   is only three years old - eight days and [TS]

00:24:47   it already has like a few little [TS]

00:24:50   annoying things about it and I can [TS]

00:24:53   already see like I might not want to use [TS]

00:24:55   this after you know after the Mac Pro [TS]

00:24:58   comes out you know and I'm assuming for [TS]

00:25:00   this discussion that the Mac Pro scrum [TS]

00:25:02   is probably coming out next summer and [TS]

00:25:03   and so if the Mac Pro comes out way [TS]

00:25:06   later than that like if it ends up being [TS]

00:25:07   2019 or next winter or like you know [TS]

00:25:09   this might change things but I might [TS]

00:25:12   actually just get zero iMac pros because [TS]

00:25:15   the iMac Pro concerns me in the sense [TS]

00:25:17   that it's really hard to get an iMac to [TS]

00:25:20   function well and be useful for 10 years [TS]

00:25:23   John's Mac Pro is actually doing that [TS]

00:25:26   and you're gonna pay the price of John's [TS]

00:25:30   Mac Pro for an iMac Pro you're gonna pay [TS]

00:25:33   the the zeon tax you're gonna pay the [TS]

00:25:35   pro tax you're gonna you were gonna pay [TS]

00:25:37   like what did they say the base price [TS]

00:25:39   was five thousand five thousand but you [TS]

00:25:41   forget how cheap this was even [TS]

00:25:42   accounting for inflation ten years ago [TS]

00:25:43   this is only like 20-some twenty-two [TS]

00:25:45   twenty three hundred dollars this was [TS]

00:25:48   back when the Mac pros were incredibly [TS]

00:25:50   cheap for what you got yeah exactly yeah [TS]

00:25:52   even with inflation your coming out I [TS]

00:25:53   think pretty far ahead with that and so [TS]

00:25:55   the Mac Pro to me like you do pay a lot [TS]

00:25:58   for it but they last pretty much [TS]

00:26:01   indefinitely like they like the it will [TS]

00:26:03   last as long as you need them to last [TS]

00:26:04   and if something does go wrong with them [TS]

00:26:06   you have a much better chance of being [TS]

00:26:08   able to practically and economically [TS]

00:26:10   service it yourself down the road when [TS]

00:26:11   it's out of warranty etc and so the [TS]

00:26:15   lifespan of a Mac Pro tends to be longer [TS]

00:26:17   than the lifespan if not and I'm not I'm [TS]

00:26:19   not considering the cylinder ones I'm [TS]

00:26:20   what I'm saying yeah that's what I'm [TS]

00:26:22   saying you're thinking of the old Mac [TS]

00:26:23   Pros that's like that's last that's last [TS]

00:26:25   decade thinking like okay so that was [TS]

00:26:27   the case but the most recent Mac Pro [TS]

00:26:29   Apple is made and none of those things [TS]

00:26:31   are true about it was unreliable from [TS]

00:26:33   the start it wasn't easy to repair [TS]

00:26:34   yourself and people aren't using them [TS]

00:26:36   well for 10 years so I think you kind of [TS]

00:26:38   have to take a wait-and-see [TS]

00:26:39   that maybe you won't have a choice of [TS]

00:26:41   something that is big reliable easy to [TS]

00:26:45   repair right maybe like maybe that won't [TS]

00:26:46   be one of your options your options said [TS]

00:26:48   will be you know a faster [TS]

00:26:50   hopefully quieter and more powerful [TS]

00:26:53   separate screen thing but that it's just [TS]

00:26:55   unreliable as you know as any of the [TS]

00:26:59   more recent Apple hardware is and just [TS]

00:27:01   as weird and flaky and the first [TS]

00:27:02   generation has strange problems and all [TS]

00:27:04   that stuff I'm not trying to be [TS]

00:27:06   pessimistic but like we're all we're all [TS]

00:27:08   kind of thinking like oh the new Mac [TS]

00:27:10   Pro's will be like the old ones in the [TS]

00:27:12   cylinder was an aberration I think [TS]

00:27:13   that's still an open question yeah [TS]

00:27:15   you're totally right it is and and you [TS]

00:27:18   know I think the cylinder has taught [TS]

00:27:20   them some lessons I would not expect a [TS]

00:27:22   return to a giant tower but I would [TS]

00:27:24   accept I would hope that it's maybe kind [TS]

00:27:26   of something in the middle there like [TS]

00:27:27   something between a shield of cylinder [TS]

00:27:29   that you can do nothing to and some kind [TS]

00:27:31   of interchangeable parts you know thing [TS]

00:27:33   maybe whether it's a tower or not you [TS]

00:27:35   know perhaps a magnesium cube yeah right [TS]

00:27:37   and so I not sure I want to commit to [TS]

00:27:40   and I'm right now if the Mac Pro was [TS]

00:27:42   totally dead and they said you know okay [TS]

00:27:44   we're launching the iMac Pro the Mac Pro [TS]

00:27:46   is is discontinued we're never gonna [TS]

00:27:47   make one again we're just doing the Mac [TS]

00:27:49   Pro then this decision was easy of [TS]

00:27:51   course I would buy one but because there [TS]

00:27:53   is a Mac Pro allegedly coming I want to [TS]

00:27:56   wait to see what that is first before I [TS]

00:27:59   decide because if it's closer to what I [TS]

00:28:01   want in having things separate and you [TS]

00:28:04   know maybe having even crazier [TS]

00:28:06   you know CPU options and stuff like that [TS]

00:28:07   who knows if it's more what I want I [TS]

00:28:10   would choose that the other thing I'm [TS]

00:28:11   worried about with the iMac Pro is [TS]

00:28:13   thermals this is a completely new [TS]

00:28:16   thermal design that basically they are [TS]

00:28:19   they are wedging much much higher hotter [TS]

00:28:24   higher wattage hotter running parts [TS]

00:28:26   inside of an enclosure that they didn't [TS]

00:28:30   design the size for like they took the [TS]

00:28:35   size of the other iMac and it seemed [TS]

00:28:37   that they basically had as a design goal [TS]

00:28:38   fit these higher-end hotter parts inside [TS]

00:28:42   of this case that we designed for this [TS]

00:28:43   other computer and while they seem to [TS]

00:28:45   have done a lot of work about the [TS]

00:28:47   internal design of it and dealing with [TS]

00:28:49   the internal arrangement to those [TS]

00:28:50   thermals and everything the fact that [TS]

00:28:52   they didn't design the X [TS]

00:28:53   criminal case for it that they basically [TS]

00:28:55   said you know wedge this into that that [TS]

00:28:59   well it's probably gonna have [TS]

00:29:00   limitations and side effects that I [TS]

00:29:02   don't like so maybe things were gonna [TS]

00:29:04   overheat and and you know be bad over [TS]

00:29:07   time that's another problem [TS]

00:29:08   I have with my iMac is that the GPU fan [TS]

00:29:10   is now or the GPU now runs too hot and [TS]

00:29:12   the fan goes up constantly and it's [TS]

00:29:14   audible of my recordings which is the [TS]

00:29:15   most one of the reasons I've finally got [TS]

00:29:17   it fixed because I can't have that and [TS]

00:29:20   you know maybe that's because these [TS]

00:29:23   parts in that in that case like I got [TS]

00:29:26   top-of-the-line parts when it was out so [TS]

00:29:28   these are you know running pretty hot [TS]

00:29:29   over three years and eventually that [TS]

00:29:30   starts to have problems with cooling I [TS]

00:29:33   fear whether the iMac pro will have [TS]

00:29:35   those problems or not because you're [TS]

00:29:37   taking these hot parts and putting them [TS]

00:29:38   into a case that is designed to be thin [TS]

00:29:40   for some reason even though nobody cares [TS]

00:29:42   about how thick their desktop display is [TS]

00:29:44   on the back but it's designed to be thin [TS]

00:29:46   rather than being designed to hold Pro [TS]

00:29:48   components the Mac Pro towers on the [TS]

00:29:51   other hand with the exception of the [TS]

00:29:52   cylinder of course although even that [TS]

00:29:54   the cylinder did have a really clever [TS]

00:29:55   cooling design that was really good as [TS]

00:29:57   long as you didn't use the GPUs but the [TS]

00:30:01   the Mac Pro towers were always like [TS]

00:30:03   we're gonna design a complete enclosure [TS]

00:30:07   a complete shape around being able to [TS]

00:30:11   hold and cool the entire range of [TS]

00:30:15   high-end pro parts that we're gonna sell [TS]

00:30:17   for this thing so I think it was always [TS]

00:30:20   more likely that there would be fewer [TS]

00:30:21   problems with thermals and things like [TS]

00:30:24   that with the Mac Pro towers then with [TS]

00:30:27   the IMAX so I'm again like with the iMac [TS]

00:30:31   Pro like I we still don't know how loud [TS]

00:30:34   is it going to be like are the fans [TS]

00:30:35   gonna spin up constantly and be audible [TS]

00:30:37   or not because the Mac pros are the same [TS]

00:30:40   noise level regardless of what they're [TS]

00:30:41   doing pretty much so like a Mac Pro you [TS]

00:30:44   know you don't really hear it and iMac [TS]

00:30:46   you hear it if you push it and that's [TS]

00:30:48   kind of ungraceful and I kind of suggest [TS]

00:30:50   thermals that don't have a lot of [TS]

00:30:51   headroom and everything else now there [TS]

00:30:52   was talk there was a weird Geekbench [TS]

00:30:55   result that may or may not be real we [TS]

00:30:58   don't really know people are believing [TS]

00:30:59   that it might be real that might be the [TS]

00:31:01   new iMac pro CPUs and they were they [TS]

00:31:06   were reporting that they were basically [TS]

00:31:07   an altar [TS]

00:31:07   version of the workstation class like [TS]

00:31:10   those eons typically the the highest [TS]

00:31:13   performance eons for desktops they end [TS]

00:31:15   in W for workstation at the end of their [TS]

00:31:17   model number and this usually means the [TS]

00:31:20   absolute highest clock speed for that [TS]

00:31:22   core account that is available because [TS]

00:31:24   it's going to burn lots of power so it's [TS]

00:31:25   not quite great for like big server [TS]

00:31:27   racks but it's gonna burn lots of power [TS]

00:31:29   but it's gonna be really really fast for [TS]

00:31:31   a desktop and it's gonna need a huge fan [TS]

00:31:32   so those parts usually end in W the ones [TS]

00:31:35   and Geekbench ended in W B or just be I [TS]

00:31:37   think anyway and they seem to be running [TS]

00:31:40   at lower clock speeds than what we did [TS]

00:31:42   what we'd expect still good still really [TS]

00:31:44   fast but it looks like they might be [TS]

00:31:47   having to use lower wattage chips in [TS]

00:31:49   these iMacs then what a full xeon [TS]

00:31:51   workstation chip would be in like a [TS]

00:31:53   tower and that's most likely for thermal [TS]

00:31:56   roots but those are 140 watt chips [TS]

00:31:57   hundred and 50 watt chips usually an [TS]

00:31:59   iMac chassis is usually designed to hold [TS]

00:32:02   like I think like a 60 or 80 watt chip [TS]

00:32:03   and yet again they have redesigned the [TS]

00:32:06   internals of this to be to offer more [TS]

00:32:08   cooling to fit higher wattage parts but [TS]

00:32:10   they also needs to leave room for the [TS]

00:32:11   GPU and so like there's basically I we [TS]

00:32:16   still don't know what the trade-offs are [TS]

00:32:19   to get workstation grade components into [TS]

00:32:22   an iMac pro into the same case size and [TS]

00:32:25   I'm guessing the trade-offs are going to [TS]

00:32:28   be related to fan noise under load and a [TS]

00:32:31   possible heat sealing that might limit [TS]

00:32:34   the range of performance they can get [TS]

00:32:36   out of those processors whereas the [TS]

00:32:38   full-blown Mac Pro that I hope will come [TS]

00:32:41   out sometime next year [TS]

00:32:42   that shouldn't have those limitations [TS]

00:32:44   that should be able to use full wattage [TS]

00:32:46   parts that should have a cooling system [TS]

00:32:48   that has lots of headroom and that can [TS]

00:32:50   cool quietly under load I don't know if [TS]

00:32:52   it will but it should and because the [TS]

00:32:54   previous ones did all of them even [TS]

00:32:55   though 2013 had that so I hope the Mac [TS]

00:32:59   Pro offers those things and if it does [TS]

00:33:01   that's the computer I want to buy not [TS]

00:33:03   the iMac Pro but because neither of [TS]

00:33:06   these computers are out yet there's [TS]

00:33:07   probably gonna be other factors that go [TS]

00:33:09   into it so if possible I will I hope [TS]

00:33:12   that my imac coming back from repair who [TS]

00:33:16   can last me until the Mac Pro comes out [TS]

00:33:19   so I can then decide then [TS]

00:33:21   there's no way you will see that [TS]

00:33:24   hot-looking new iMac Pro and say no [TS]

00:33:26   thank you all wait respond sir this week [TS]

00:33:30   by hover go to hover comm slash ATP to [TS]

00:33:33   learn more and get 10% off your first [TS]

00:33:35   purchase and the month of October dot [TS]

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00:33:42   been more important show the world who [TS]

00:33:44   you are and what you're passionate about [TS]

00:33:46   without tying it to whatever publishing [TS]

00:33:48   platform or social network is popular [TS]

00:33:50   this year because that changes quickly [TS]

00:33:53   you know if you made your email address [TS]

00:33:55   or your website not that long ago it [TS]

00:33:58   would have been at Juno comm or at [TS]

00:34:00   Geocities comm that changes really fast [TS]

00:34:03   in this business the best thing you can [TS]

00:34:05   do to keep your email address and your [TS]

00:34:07   website timeless and future proof is to [TS]

00:34:09   host them at your own domain name and [TS]

00:34:11   hover is the best place to find buy and [TS]

00:34:14   manage domains there's no tricks no [TS]

00:34:16   shady upsells no scamming add-ons and [TS]

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00:34:21   it's very simple and easy to use and [TS]

00:34:22   they have amazing support and hover has [TS]

00:34:26   over 400 domain extensions to choose [TS]

00:34:28   from to help you bring herself online [TS]

00:34:29   there's lots of choices to help you find [TS]

00:34:31   the perfect domain name so if you are a [TS]

00:34:33   designer or a creative professional you [TS]

00:34:36   can use dot design instead of ending it [TS]

00:34:38   with just calm or not beige or some of [TS]

00:34:40   it some other generic domain by using [TS]

00:34:42   dot design you tell the world exactly [TS]

00:34:44   what you do built right into the name [TS]

00:34:46   stand out and brand yourself online with [TS]

00:34:48   the perfect domain name for you or your [TS]

00:34:49   business and dot design domain names are [TS]

00:34:51   on sale for the entire month of October [TS]

00:34:54   at hover for just $5.99 that's 85 [TS]

00:34:57   percent off your first year and half the [TS]

00:34:59   price of a dot-com so to learn more [TS]

00:35:01   visit hover comm slash ATP you can get [TS]

00:35:04   10% off your first purchase hover get a [TS]

00:35:07   domain name for your passion also [TS]

00:35:13   speaking of industrial design and [TS]

00:35:15   cooling in one of the many interviews [TS]

00:35:18   and books that never seems to happen if [TS]

00:35:19   I could get like Johnny I've and all [TS]

00:35:22   John Rubinstein and all the people [TS]

00:35:24   together and ask them about like past [TS]

00:35:27   apples lines I would love to know what [TS]

00:35:30   what changed between like the the [TS]

00:35:34   you know nowadays and back one Apple [TS]

00:35:37   maid then you know the cheese grater [TS]

00:35:39   because if you think about the cheese [TS]

00:35:40   beer and this is what I always hope that [TS]

00:35:41   the the new Mac Pro design will be but [TS]

00:35:43   who knows what it'll actually be the [TS]

00:35:45   cheese grater as you noted and as they [TS]

00:35:48   as Johnny Ivan his white world said I [TS]

00:35:50   think in the introduction for the [TS]

00:35:51   original cheese where that you know the [TS]

00:35:52   power mac g5 the design of it was not so [TS]

00:35:59   much like all the modern Johnny I've [TS]

00:36:01   they're not just running out for the [TS]

00:36:02   modern Apple designs like bye-bye Johnny [TS]

00:36:04   F design team where it's like we've [TS]

00:36:06   wanted to boil it down to its essence [TS]

00:36:07   and find you know uncomplicated simple [TS]

00:36:11   direct blah blah blah all the things [TS]

00:36:13   they do for things that are like phones [TS]

00:36:14   or portable things where they don't want [TS]

00:36:16   a lot of geegaws hanging off it whereas [TS]

00:36:18   the cheese grater was we wanted to be [TS]

00:36:22   honest about the fact that the main job [TS]

00:36:24   of this thing is to to be a heat [TS]

00:36:27   exchanger like it was modeled off of [TS]

00:36:29   heat exchangers or air exchangers like [TS]

00:36:31   that are up in rooms that suck in air [TS]

00:36:33   and one with temperature on one side and [TS]

00:36:34   ejected out the other side a different [TS]

00:36:36   temperature I think somebody said like [TS]

00:36:37   that the actual cheese grater was [TS]

00:36:39   modeled off a heat exchanger right and [TS]

00:36:41   so it wasn't designed to be the most [TS]

00:36:43   sort of well you know it was designed to [TS]

00:36:47   be true to its purpose but its purpose [TS]

00:36:51   wasn't to be a beautiful object right [TS]

00:36:54   its purpose wasn't to be portable and [TS]

00:36:57   uncomplicated and you know simple and [TS]

00:37:00   obvious its purpose was to exchange heat [TS]

00:37:03   like that was the purpose and so it was [TS]

00:37:06   designed with that as a goal and it [TS]

00:37:09   seems like so many things that Apple [TS]

00:37:11   makes nowadays are designed with a with [TS]

00:37:14   a simplicity of form as a goal which is [TS]

00:37:16   a fine goal especially for portable [TS]

00:37:18   things but as you said nobody really [TS]

00:37:20   cares that much about the simplicity of [TS]

00:37:22   form like if a more honest I Mac Pro on [TS]

00:37:26   the back of it would have looked like [TS]

00:37:28   the back of a transformer like it would [TS]

00:37:30   look like a giant heatsink it would have [TS]

00:37:32   had bulges and flares and fins or what [TS]

00:37:34   it looked like the underside of like a [TS]

00:37:36   Ferrari like all sorts of ground effects [TS]

00:37:38   and like a diffuser like it would say [TS]

00:37:41   the back of this computer is all about [TS]

00:37:43   ejecting heat because honestly speaking [TS]

00:37:45   what is the purpose of this computer [TS]

00:37:47   it's the iMac [TS]

00:37:48   it's not the iMac that's simple and [TS]

00:37:49   elegant just looks like a screen and you [TS]

00:37:51   say where is the computer no this is the [TS]

00:37:53   iMac Pro its job is to be the fastest [TS]

00:37:56   possible all-in-one computer that human [TS]

00:37:59   beings can make and the main problem of [TS]

00:38:01   a fast all-in-one computer is getting [TS]

00:38:03   rid of the damn heat so the back of it [TS]

00:38:05   looks crazy and just as big and chunky [TS]

00:38:07   and as you know coming out the wazoo and [TS]

00:38:10   that's what the cheese grater is it was [TS]

00:38:12   a big giant thing cold air and front hot [TS]

00:38:14   air out back gigantic fans nine fans [TS]

00:38:17   Steve Jobs was raving or however many [TS]

00:38:18   the original on hand look at all these [TS]

00:38:20   fans they're all computer-controlled to [TS]

00:38:22   be just the right amount of cooling at [TS]

00:38:23   the right so then I'll run full blast [TS]

00:38:24   all the time you know there is an [TS]

00:38:26   elegance to it but it is so [TS]

00:38:28   purpose-built to let you house all that [TS]

00:38:30   hot stuff and get it cooled so I hope [TS]

00:38:34   the Mac Pro is not like the trash camera [TS]

00:38:36   it's like what is the essence or a form [TS]

00:38:38   of the Mac probably like I want it to be [TS]

00:38:41   functional and the function is heat [TS]

00:38:44   exchange and things whose function is [TS]

00:38:46   heat exchange don't look like lozenges [TS]

00:38:48   bars of soap or simple elegant design I [TS]

00:38:52   mean in many respects the chimney Mac [TS]

00:38:54   Pro the trashcan Mac Pro does have a [TS]

00:38:56   purity of purpose cold air and bottom [TS]

00:38:59   hot air out top just like the g4 cube [TS]

00:39:00   right but it was not designed to be like [TS]

00:39:03   how much heat can we get rid of because [TS]

00:39:06   they just had you know the two GPUs [TS]

00:39:08   there in the CPU and they couldn't even [TS]

00:39:10   cool them well enough like so it was a [TS]

00:39:11   clever design for its size but it was [TS]

00:39:13   very very small if you want to build [TS]

00:39:15   something with a massive heat exchange [TS]

00:39:16   and capacity you make it bigger you want [TS]

00:39:18   to have excess capacity not be right on [TS]

00:39:20   the borderline [TS]

00:39:21   so anyway getting back to what I said I [TS]

00:39:23   would ask them like it's like the same [TS]

00:39:25   people who were there Johnny I've made [TS]

00:39:27   the cheese grater but now he's making [TS]

00:39:29   all these beautiful featureless things [TS]

00:39:30   with no ports on them [TS]

00:39:31   what changed surely it wasn't Steve Jobs [TS]

00:39:34   saying please make me something that [TS]

00:39:35   looks like the underside of a Ferrari [TS]

00:39:37   right so someone there was like okay was [TS]

00:39:40   like in the design brief the main job of [TS]

00:39:43   the thing that you are making is to be [TS]

00:39:45   an efficient heat exchanger do that in [TS]

00:39:47   the most elegant way that you can and I [TS]

00:39:49   don't imagine Steve Jobs was forcing [TS]

00:39:51   Johnny I have to do that Steve Jobs [TS]

00:39:52   probably wanted it to be like the [TS]

00:39:53   trashcan like he doesn't like all the [TS]

00:39:55   big you know bins and and you know holes [TS]

00:39:58   all over the front and back and giant [TS]

00:39:59   fans and stuff he just accepts that as a [TS]

00:40:01   cost to do [TS]

00:40:01   business but they did the best job they [TS]

00:40:02   could with it but it's like the same [TS]

00:40:04   people are there but the philosophy has [TS]

00:40:07   changed and Apple has stopped making [TS]

00:40:09   computers like that whose purpose is not [TS]

00:40:12   to be simple obvious white Apple pencil [TS]

00:40:15   with no things on it and just this pew [TS]

00:40:17   who you know beautiful perfect form so [TS]

00:40:20   anyway when Johnny comes on the show ask [TS]

00:40:22   him about it and see like has he changed [TS]

00:40:24   his mind has his philosophy evolved was [TS]

00:40:28   there someone forcing him to make those [TS]

00:40:30   older computers the way they were was [TS]

00:40:32   someone forcing him to put all those [TS]

00:40:33   ports on the side of his laptops like I [TS]

00:40:35   don't know so many questions Johnny come [TS]

00:40:37   on the show will talk yeah that's gonna [TS]

00:40:39   have it no I mean I totally agree and I [TS]

00:40:42   wish Apple you know like you know Apple [TS]

00:40:45   is you know famously you know talked [TS]

00:40:47   about courage to remove the headphone [TS]

00:40:49   jack and you know that an Apple is a [TS]

00:40:51   very considered a very bold company for [TS]

00:40:53   that the courageous designs they make [TS]

00:40:55   what they lack it seems like in the in [TS]

00:40:59   the in the hardware designs of the [TS]

00:41:01   computers is not courage but confidence [TS]

00:41:04   they need the confidence to know that [TS]

00:41:09   they can make something that sacrifices [TS]

00:41:12   visual symmetry for functionality that [TS]

00:41:15   doesn't take courage it takes confidence [TS]

00:41:18   because you have to be able to to know [TS]

00:41:20   in your head that even if the press says [TS]

00:41:22   oh you know it got thicker or wow that [TS]

00:41:26   iMac it looks pretty thick from the back [TS]

00:41:28   or whatever like Apple has to be [TS]

00:41:30   confident enough to be able to say we we [TS]

00:41:34   believe in our design because it is [TS]

00:41:36   better that way even though you're [TS]

00:41:38   saying it doesn't look as good or [TS]

00:41:39   whatever we know that it works better [TS]

00:41:42   and it seems like they don't have that [TS]

00:41:44   confidence anymore or it's not being you [TS]

00:41:47   know properly enforced somewhere on the [TS]

00:41:49   way or something because a great [TS]

00:41:51   computer nothing about its physical form [TS]

00:41:54   should unnecessarily detract from how [TS]

00:41:58   great of a computer it can be and there [TS]

00:42:01   are certain models in the lineup where [TS]

00:42:02   you'd make a different choice you know [TS]

00:42:04   so things like the 12-inch MacBook where [TS]

00:42:06   the whole role of this computer is what [TS]

00:42:09   is the absolute smallest thinnest [TS]

00:42:10   lightest computer we can make and have [TS]

00:42:12   it still be remotely usable so then you [TS]

00:42:14   make different trade-offs [TS]

00:42:15   but as you go up the line as you get [TS]

00:42:17   more and more to the larger and higher [TS]

00:42:19   end and pro machines and especially once [TS]

00:42:21   you get into things like desktops which [TS]

00:42:23   are kind of pro by nature and have very [TS]

00:42:25   different you know physical demands [TS]

00:42:27   around them in very different usage [TS]

00:42:28   around them the decision always has to [TS]

00:42:31   be made the other way of yeah you know [TS]

00:42:33   what you can make it beautiful have the [TS]

00:42:35   confidence to know that you could make a [TS]

00:42:36   beautiful design while still letting it [TS]

00:42:39   function well as the computer that it [TS]

00:42:41   has to be and it seems like Apple [TS]

00:42:44   doesn't have that confidence anymore or [TS]

00:42:45   at least or they don't have that ability [TS]

00:42:47   anymore which is even more concerning I [TS]

00:42:50   understand your point I deeply disagree [TS]

00:42:53   and I think they're showing external [TS]

00:42:55   confidence by doing things like going [TS]

00:42:57   all-in on USB see right because USB see [TS]

00:43:01   was not it did not have a terribly great [TS]

00:43:04   story when the MacBook and the MacBook [TS]

00:43:06   Pros went all-in on USB see and it's [TS]

00:43:09   gotten better but as you recently wrote [TS]

00:43:11   about the story isn't that great now I [TS]

00:43:14   know that's exactly I was gonna say it's [TS]

00:43:16   gotten better but without question there [TS]

00:43:19   is a long way to go and I thought your [TS]

00:43:21   posts touched on that really well or I [TS]

00:43:23   shouldn't say touched on it handled it [TS]

00:43:24   really well so I think they're showing [TS]

00:43:28   external confidence but with a few [TS]

00:43:31   tweaks I think what I would say is it's [TS]

00:43:34   the internal confidence that they lack [TS]

00:43:36   it's the internal confidence for some [TS]

00:43:38   designer or whomever to go to Johnny and [TS]

00:43:42   say you know what maybe we should make [TS]

00:43:44   this a little thicker or you know what [TS]

00:43:46   and maybe more than one port on the [TS]

00:43:49   MacBook adorable would be useful or you [TS]

00:43:51   know what maybe MagSafe wasn't so bad [TS]

00:43:55   and I think the problem is internal [TS]

00:43:57   courage to stand up to whoever's calling [TS]

00:44:00   the shots on why it is these things are [TS]

00:44:04   as it appears to us very crippled like [TS]

00:44:08   they're great machines I love my macbook [TS]

00:44:10   adorable I really do but damned if it [TS]

00:44:13   wouldn't be great if I had one more port [TS]

00:44:14   on it you know or damned if it wouldn't [TS]

00:44:15   be great if I had MagSafe on it cuz just [TS]

00:44:18   yesterday I think it was I ripped it off [TS]

00:44:21   my nightstand it was charging on my god [TS]

00:44:23   I caught the cable with my foot and it [TS]

00:44:26   came flying off my nightstand it's fine [TS]

00:44:28   thankfully [TS]

00:44:29   but did it land in a pool of water and [TS]

00:44:31   no it did not land in a pool of water [TS]

00:44:32   thank goodness the water beds are not [TS]

00:44:35   trendy so we were safe there God can you [TS]

00:44:37   imagine me with a water bed that'd be [TS]

00:44:38   terrible they still have their fans in [TS]

00:44:40   any case the point I'm driving at is I [TS]

00:44:43   think it's the internal confidence it's [TS]

00:44:44   a problem that nobody's standing up to [TS]

00:44:46   Johnny or the the mythical version of [TS]

00:44:48   Johnny who know you even know it's [TS]

00:44:50   really Johnny anymore but the mythical [TS]

00:44:52   Johnny who is saying no this MacBook [TS]

00:44:54   adorable will have only one port no [TS]

00:44:56   these butterfly switches are the only [TS]

00:44:58   way to go you know whoever is making [TS]

00:45:01   those decisions be that an individual or [TS]

00:45:02   or a committee I think it's that lack of [TS]

00:45:05   internal confidence to say to them no [TS]

00:45:07   this isn't right [TS]

00:45:09   this isn't good enough they we do need [TS]

00:45:12   one more port on the adorable we do need [TS]

00:45:14   better keyboard switches or whatever the [TS]

00:45:17   case may be you know I think that's [TS]

00:45:18   where it's lacking like I said it's like [TS]

00:45:21   it's like what is the design brief what [TS]

00:45:23   is the goal here and I think you know [TS]

00:45:25   and the Philon I and philosophy and the [TS]

00:45:27   goal for a lot of portal devices is very [TS]

00:45:28   often don't have so much crap on it [TS]

00:45:31   don't have a million buttons don't have [TS]

00:45:33   a million ports it's easier to [TS]

00:45:34   waterproof it's simpler it should look [TS]

00:45:36   simple and obvious having the front be [TS]

00:45:38   all screen is a natural evolution of not [TS]

00:45:41   having a hardware keyboard one I just [TS]

00:45:42   have a screen and what a single button [TS]

00:45:44   on the front leave that kind of element [TS]

00:45:45   bill simplicity is very appropriate for [TS]

00:45:48   a certain class of devices that Apple [TS]

00:45:49   happens to sell love because you don't [TS]

00:45:51   want a phone with the million things [TS]

00:45:53   sticking out of it for most consumers [TS]

00:45:55   it's supposed to be a thing that fits in [TS]

00:45:57   your pocket and even laptops you can see [TS]

00:45:58   an argument for their laptop they're [TS]

00:46:00   simpler when there's less stuff when [TS]

00:46:02   there's fewer moving parts fewer seems [TS]

00:46:04   like you know just compare the original [TS]

00:46:07   aluminum you know PowerBook g4 to [TS]

00:46:10   occurring unibody one the design goals [TS]

00:46:13   and evolution of that trying to say [TS]

00:46:15   simplify simplify simplify a better [TS]

00:46:18   portable computer because it flexes less [TS]

00:46:19   because it's you know it has fewer seams [TS]

00:46:22   it has fewer things to go wrong on it [TS]

00:46:25   even the hinge is more robust and [TS]

00:46:27   everything about it is simpler and then [TS]

00:46:29   that extending to start taking ports off [TS]

00:46:31   now you start to get into you know I'm [TS]

00:46:32   not quite sure about that but you can [TS]

00:46:34   see kind of an argument for the [TS]

00:46:35   simplicity but where this goes awry is [TS]

00:46:38   on things like the iMac Pro it's [TS]

00:46:40   certainly the Mac [TS]

00:46:42   the story has to be different your goal [TS]

00:46:44   has to be different you can't take that [TS]

00:46:46   same design philosophy that works for [TS]

00:46:48   phones and tablets and possibly also [TS]

00:46:50   laptops especially the small ones and [TS]

00:46:53   say this same design philosophy should [TS]

00:46:55   apply to our professional modular [TS]

00:46:57   computer because that's not what it's [TS]

00:47:00   supposed to do as Marco said [TS]

00:47:02   professionals don't care what the hell [TS]

00:47:04   the back of their desk under desk [TS]

00:47:06   mounted computer does like it is [TS]

00:47:09   supposed to fulfill a job and its job is [TS]

00:47:12   to be really fast and capable and being [TS]

00:47:16   really fast and capable means ejecting [TS]

00:47:18   heat and having a lot of room inside and [TS]

00:47:20   being reliable and stuff and if that's [TS]

00:47:22   your goal like these are the most [TS]

00:47:25   important things it's got to be super [TS]

00:47:27   reliable and just chunky and very [TS]

00:47:31   powerful and like the maximum amount of [TS]

00:47:33   power and flexibility you design a [TS]

00:47:35   different thing I started thinking of [TS]

00:47:37   things like power tools or off-road [TS]

00:47:41   vehicles not like cars that you buy but [TS]

00:47:43   like actual like you know getting around [TS]

00:47:45   on the farm or going through the jungle [TS]

00:47:47   or whatever those things they can be [TS]

00:47:49   elegant and have nice designs but they [TS]

00:47:51   have a job to do and their design is [TS]

00:47:53   entirely focused around that job no one [TS]

00:47:56   is trying to say can we get huge ground [TS]

00:47:59   clearance and offer a vehicle but not [TS]

00:48:02   have like a big gap between the wheels [TS]

00:48:05   and the wheel well I can cover that over [TS]

00:48:07   with something I could we could make it [TS]

00:48:10   so that like that we have like a skirt [TS]

00:48:12   that when the wheels compressed the [TS]

00:48:13   skirt moves up so it looks more elegant [TS]

00:48:14   like what are you even doing are you [TS]

00:48:16   trying to make this car look like a [TS]

00:48:18   low-slung you know Tesla like the whole [TS]

00:48:22   point is supposed to go offer us like [TS]

00:48:23   yeah but it's so ugly when you can see [TS]

00:48:24   all the suspension bits and you can see [TS]

00:48:26   all this air under the car I don't that [TS]

00:48:28   skirt idea we can make the skirt work [TS]

00:48:29   it's like no don't try to make the skirt [TS]

00:48:31   work like just put huge amounts of [TS]

00:48:34   travel and big exposed springs and [TS]

00:48:36   shocks and don't worry about the skirt [TS]

00:48:38   don't worry about like the big gap [TS]

00:48:40   that's that's what it's supposed to do [TS]

00:48:42   just make the best off-road vehicle you [TS]

00:48:43   can make that's what I want them to do [TS]

00:48:46   with the Mac Pro and the iMac it's like [TS]

00:48:48   it has to be just as slim as the regular [TS]

00:48:51   iMac why why would you make it just as [TS]

00:48:53   slim as the regular yeah [TS]

00:48:54   maybe you can we're also smart with our [TS]

00:48:55   cooling worth like you already have the [TS]

00:48:57   iMac the iMac is oh I don't even know [TS]

00:48:59   where the computer is it's so skinny and [TS]

00:49:00   we got rid of the the optical drives [TS]

00:49:02   whoo you make it beer a thinner in the [TS]

00:49:03   edge it looks beautifully and that does [TS]

00:49:05   and I think an all-in-one computer that [TS]

00:49:06   is very thin and elegant and has [TS]

00:49:07   beautiful screen is a product they [TS]

00:49:09   should make and they do it's a 5k iMac [TS]

00:49:10   it's great when they go to make the iPad [TS]

00:49:12   pro wise like design brief hasn't [TS]

00:49:14   changed yeah it's supposed to be like [TS]

00:49:16   the fastest computer you could buy [TS]

00:49:17   especially remember as I pointed out [TS]

00:49:18   before they weren't gonna make the Mac [TS]

00:49:20   Pro the iMac pro was gonna be their [TS]

00:49:22   top-of-the-line and still they said it's [TS]

00:49:24   got to fit in the same case and that [TS]

00:49:25   that's what's wrong like they have the [TS]

00:49:28   wrong goal even before they begin [TS]

00:49:29   executing and I don't I don't know where [TS]

00:49:32   that comes from I don't know why that [TS]

00:49:34   philosophy is extended maybe it's they [TS]

00:49:35   just think all technology should be like [TS]

00:49:36   that but they didn't always think like [TS]

00:49:38   this and the cheese grater Mac Pro is [TS]

00:49:39   the the perfect proof Johnny I've made [TS]

00:49:42   that computer and talked about it his [TS]

00:49:44   team made that thing and it is perhaps [TS]

00:49:46   the most brutally utilitarian thing that [TS]

00:49:49   Apple has ever made it's a big silver [TS]

00:49:51   heat exchanger with freaking handles on [TS]

00:49:53   it with a huge amount of space in it [TS]

00:49:54   that's what I want [TS]

00:49:56   come on I mean that that exact design [TS]

00:49:57   but I want that philosophy executed well [TS]

00:50:00   yeah and the thing is like that like [TS]

00:50:03   that giant metal tower full of fans and [TS]

00:50:07   everything and ports in the back and [TS]

00:50:08   huge air holes in the front and back [TS]

00:50:10   that thing is beautiful that is the [TS]

00:50:14   nicest PC tower ever I've ever seen bar [TS]

00:50:17   none it's not even close and for people [TS]

00:50:20   who love computers and who need high-end [TS]

00:50:23   pro computers that is beautiful you [TS]

00:50:26   don't have to make it ugly people who [TS]

00:50:29   look at that and say that's ugly [TS]

00:50:31   are people who hate computers it seems [TS]

00:50:35   like the people who were responsible for [TS]

00:50:37   designing computers at Apple hate [TS]

00:50:39   computers and I don't say this lightly [TS]

00:50:41   what I mean to say here is literally [TS]

00:50:44   that it seems like the computers at [TS]

00:50:46   Apple are designed with the goal of [TS]

00:50:49   hiding and getting rid of as much of the [TS]

00:50:50   computer as possible and there is a [TS]

00:50:53   place for that again there's a place for [TS]

00:50:54   that in like the ultra-thin unlight the [TS]

00:50:57   MacBook you know 12-inch and everything [TS]

00:50:59   and even maybe the heirs although we're [TS]

00:51:01   going backwards in that direction as [TS]

00:51:02   well in the air range but at the [TS]

00:51:06   high-end you are selling to people who [TS]

00:51:09   need computers and in many cases who [TS]

00:51:12   love computers and those people don't [TS]

00:51:16   want you to hide everything away [TS]

00:51:18   especially when it comes at the cost of [TS]

00:51:21   practicality and functionality those [TS]

00:51:23   people are happy to see the computer we [TS]

00:51:27   are happy to have ports and air holes [TS]

00:51:30   and a little bit more thickness in order [TS]

00:51:33   to get like a better keyboard or better [TS]

00:51:35   battery life or something else like that [TS]

00:51:37   market isn't trying to get rid of the [TS]

00:51:40   computer they're buying a computer they [TS]

00:51:43   like computers and the pros want to see [TS]

00:51:47   like the pros want a pro piece of gear [TS]

00:51:49   the people who buy the giant off-road [TS]

00:51:52   vehicles are not looking at them and [TS]

00:51:54   saying man this thing's so ugly it's a [TS]

00:51:57   shame no one can make these things [TS]

00:51:58   prettier no they love the way they look [TS]

00:52:00   they buy them because of the way they [TS]

00:52:02   look partially and their functionality [TS]

00:52:03   as well some people just for the looks [TS]

00:52:05   but you know like so to make up to make [TS]

00:52:07   a hunk and MacPro tower that's full of [TS]

00:52:10   high high powered the the best [TS]

00:52:13   components they can make you know cooled [TS]

00:52:15   with giant slow fan so they can be [TS]

00:52:17   really efficient and really quiet even [TS]

00:52:19   under a load that is beautiful and that [TS]

00:52:22   is good design for a high end pro [TS]

00:52:24   computer what they seem to be doing now [TS]

00:52:26   instead is applying the wrong design [TS]

00:52:30   principles to it like you know what John [TS]

00:52:32   said like what these tools are here to [TS]

00:52:34   do they're applying the same principles [TS]

00:52:37   as they're applying to the ultra thin 12 [TS]

00:52:39   inch ultra portable that's not good [TS]

00:52:41   design design is how it works a famous [TS]

00:52:45   guy said that once like design is taking [TS]

00:52:49   the requirements that that people have [TS]

00:52:51   who were going to use this thing and [TS]

00:52:52   making something that works well with [TS]

00:52:56   those requirements and also hopefully [TS]

00:52:58   looks decent in the process but its [TS]

00:53:00   design is about those requirements and [TS]

00:53:02   and how you literally you know design in [TS]

00:53:04   the the work to accommodate those so [TS]

00:53:07   what they're doing when they make like a [TS]

00:53:10   pro computer that has massive practical [TS]

00:53:14   problems when used professionally or [TS]

00:53:15   when used by anybody that's actually bad [TS]

00:53:18   design [TS]

00:53:19   no matter how it looks and so they [TS]

00:53:22   really need I think to shift this [TS]

00:53:24   thinking and I hope they have with the [TS]

00:53:26   Mac Pro they really need to shift this [TS]

00:53:28   thinking back into it is okay to make a [TS]

00:53:32   computer that looks like a computer [TS]

00:53:34   there is nothing wrong with having a [TS]

00:53:38   high-end Pro desktop that's probably [TS]

00:53:41   gonna cost like eight thousand dollars [TS]

00:53:42   to have that be a little bit bulky and [TS]

00:53:45   to have that you know go into your desk [TS]

00:53:47   and to have that look like a square with [TS]

00:53:50   ports in the back and fans in the back [TS]

00:53:51   like that's fine that's actually what [TS]

00:53:55   people want and to those people if that [TS]

00:53:58   is designed well it will be beautiful no [TS]

00:54:01   matter how it looks they could have a [TS]

00:54:04   design like a Star Trek spaceship like [TS]

00:54:06   it can be cool but it has to be [TS]

00:54:09   fulfilling his job and his job is to [TS]

00:54:11   eject heed and hold lots of things and [TS]

00:54:12   be super fast and it's just you end up [TS]

00:54:14   with the different shape you end up with [TS]

00:54:15   the different everything about it [TS]

00:54:17   there's lots of options available lots [TS]

00:54:19   of things I'm imagining where it's [TS]

00:54:21   fuzzier I think and I was thinking about [TS]

00:54:22   this when I was sitting looking at the [TS]

00:54:24   bunch of laptops around the table at [TS]

00:54:26   work a lot of people work now have the [TS]

00:54:28   same thing I have a 2017 MacBook Pro [TS]

00:54:30   with its four little USB see slash [TS]

00:54:33   Thunderbolt three ports all around the [TS]

00:54:35   sides of it but then other people still [TS]

00:54:37   have the 2015 ones like an earlier right [TS]

00:54:40   and honestly when they're all sitting [TS]

00:54:42   around the table like that other than [TS]

00:54:43   the fact that the new ones are Space [TS]

00:54:44   Gray for the most part they don't look [TS]

00:54:46   that different like the you can tell [TS]

00:54:48   that the new ones are thinner and the [TS]

00:54:49   screens are a nicer right but the [TS]

00:54:52   elements don't look that bad but I look [TS]

00:54:54   at the sides of the other ones and like [TS]

00:54:56   they don't look that much thicker but [TS]

00:54:57   then I see SD card HDMI port MagSafe USB [TS]

00:55:03   a like and I and I think again we talked [TS]

00:55:06   about this when they did the am a [TS]

00:55:07   crowned table and I was like but they [TS]

00:55:09   said didn't they say something about [TS]

00:55:11   maybe they'll be reconsidering their [TS]

00:55:14   choices with the MacBook Pros and coming [TS]

00:55:16   out with new ones that appeal to people [TS]

00:55:18   more and I kept thinking like that maybe [TS]

00:55:21   in the future they would reconsider [TS]

00:55:24   their decisions and like put an SD card [TS]

00:55:25   slot on it or like just make different [TS]

00:55:27   decisions about ports and stuff like [TS]

00:55:29   that sort of [TS]

00:55:30   back pedal on the you know relentless [TS]

00:55:34   simplification on their biggest laptop [TS]

00:55:38   I'm not expecting them to make a [TS]

00:55:39   keyboard that's not the same size as the [TS]

00:55:41   small ones you know I'm not going crazy [TS]

00:55:42   yeah but I'm just saying like the the [TS]

00:55:45   utility of like I think a lot of people [TS]

00:55:47   are jealous at work of the people come [TS]

00:55:48   in with the old laptops and just plug [TS]

00:55:50   their thing right into the projector [TS]

00:55:51   with no dongles right or that you know [TS]

00:55:56   Matt you know MagSafe of ripping the [TS]

00:55:59   thing in and out of they get up from [TS]

00:56:00   their desks and then maybe they're also [TS]

00:56:02   jealous of me with my single wire [TS]

00:56:04   connecting with all the other stuff so [TS]

00:56:05   this advantages Thunderball as well but [TS]

00:56:07   like I think of it this way if they came [TS]

00:56:10   out with the new MacBook Pro that had an [TS]

00:56:13   SD card in HDMI on it a lot of people [TS]

00:56:16   would love it and I'm trying to think [TS]

00:56:21   who would hate it the people like I [TS]

00:56:23   don't want that additional complexity I [TS]

00:56:24   never use HDMI would they hate it would [TS]

00:56:26   they just be like oh whatever I don't [TS]

00:56:28   care I don't use those ports like who [TS]

00:56:31   would really hate it other than saying [TS]

00:56:32   you've just mucked up my perfect clean [TS]

00:56:34   symmetrical design but I don't think [TS]

00:56:36   people who buy them care that much about [TS]

00:56:38   it and the people who would love it boy [TS]

00:56:40   would they love it so the in this new [TS]

00:56:42   Mac Renaissance of where we all believe [TS]

00:56:44   apples turn the corner on the Mac and [TS]

00:56:46   it's paying more attention to it and [TS]

00:56:47   it's gonna make a Mac Pro and they're [TS]

00:56:48   making the iMac Pro and they're doing [TS]

00:56:50   all these things I'm waiting to see how [TS]

00:56:52   far does the Mac Renaissance go we know [TS]

00:56:54   it goes far enough that there are they [TS]

00:56:56   revive the line of computer that they [TS]

00:56:57   weren't going to do so that's great I [TS]

00:56:58   love it like and that gives me hope for [TS]

00:57:00   everything else but the real test may be [TS]

00:57:02   what happens to the 15-inch do they go [TS]

00:57:07   more utilitarian in any way do any ports [TS]

00:57:12   come back duh is there any recognition [TS]

00:57:14   that some decisions made with the [TS]

00:57:18   current line of computers may not be [TS]

00:57:19   exact even if it's the keyboard which is [TS]

00:57:21   a topic of conversation this week which [TS]

00:57:22   may or may not to get to in the show do [TS]

00:57:24   they change their thinking on the [TS]

00:57:27   keyboard and say we need to take another [TS]

00:57:29   run at this in a big way even if the new [TS]

00:57:32   keyboard is just as thin as the old one [TS]

00:57:33   to just have a different philosophy of [TS]

00:57:35   saying like you know we need we need to [TS]

00:57:39   rethink this like how much are they [TS]

00:57:41   willing to reconsider on the models the [TS]

00:57:44   are you know are not the the I was gonna [TS]

00:57:47   say they're not the very very top end [TS]

00:57:49   but the 15 inches they're topping yeah [TS]

00:57:50   right how much are they willing to to [TS]

00:57:53   reconsider and I'm still maintaining [TS]

00:57:55   fantasies that they're going to be [TS]

00:57:56   willing to reconsider a lot that the new [TS]

00:57:59   Mac Pro will will be the the giant [TS]

00:58:02   purpose-built heat exchanger that I was [TS]

00:58:03   describing that you know the iMac Pro [TS]

00:58:06   really will be amazingly fast and [TS]

00:58:08   competent even if it is in the same case [TS]

00:58:10   and that the new line of laptops like [TS]

00:58:12   that we'll see we'll see that they're [TS]

00:58:13   learning from their mistakes and they [TS]

00:58:14   make different decisions about it and [TS]

00:58:16   they can make a big deal out of it like [TS]

00:58:17   we heard you we know you don't want as [TS]

00:58:20   many dongles so now there's HDMI and an [TS]

00:58:22   SD card or whatever whatever they decide [TS]

00:58:24   like that would be a huge applause line [TS]

00:58:27   tons of people would love it it would [TS]

00:58:29   make the computers more popular some [TS]

00:58:32   people be disappointed that it's not as [TS]

00:58:34   simple but how many how many who don't [TS]

00:58:36   work in the sealed off frosted glass [TS]

00:58:38   area with Johnny I would actually be [TS]

00:58:39   disappointed by those computers yeah so [TS]

00:58:42   Jenny I've come come in the show we're [TS]

00:58:44   waiting for you we respond to this week [TS]

00:58:47   by betterment rethink what your money [TS]

00:58:49   can do visit betterment comm slash ATP [TS]

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01:00:16   involves risk betterment rethink what [TS]

01:00:18   your money can do by the way there was [TS]

01:00:24   one thing about that picture I posted [TS]

01:00:25   about my setup that you appeared not to [TS]

01:00:28   have noticed your glass of water Joe how [TS]

01:00:31   many dongles do I have I don't know some [TS]

01:00:35   of them are black and some of them are [TS]

01:00:36   white so I can't really tell I gave it a [TS]

01:00:38   zoom in I'm 100% in this let's see zoom [TS]

01:00:40   in I see John what shape are my arrow [TS]

01:00:42   keys oh they're not full-size is that [TS]

01:00:45   the yeah the screens different I could [TS]

01:00:47   tell from the screen bars and that's [TS]

01:00:48   2015 yes it is but you do you still have [TS]

01:00:51   a dog was that Ethernet yeah yeah [TS]

01:00:54   Thunderbolt Ethernet and then you've got [TS]

01:00:56   the MagSafe where's the black thing [TS]

01:00:57   coming out optical audio optical audio [TS]

01:01:01   which doesn't exist in the new ones but [TS]

01:01:02   does it just on my iMac the trackpad is [TS]

01:01:05   smaller and a little cut out where [TS]

01:01:07   you're the finger thing where you reach [TS]

01:01:08   in to get the lip to open it up is [TS]

01:01:10   actually not as wide as well I believe [TS]

01:01:11   anyway yeah do you have 20 I can't keep [TS]

01:01:16   track of what laughter 17 I do but not [TS]

01:01:20   for long I'm going to sell it [TS]

01:01:21   alright and where did this 15 covers is [TS]

01:01:23   just one of your old ones that did you [TS]

01:01:24   buy another one [TS]

01:01:25   eBay eBay can't you just buy these [TS]

01:01:27   directly from Apple now you can they [TS]

01:01:29   still sell them yeah they still sell [TS]

01:01:30   them brand new this one was this is the [TS]

01:01:34   base CPU the 2.2 with the 512 SSD which [TS]

01:01:37   I basically I required a bigger SSD the [TS]

01:01:40   last one I actually had one of these you [TS]

01:01:42   know in 2015 it was only the 256 SSD and [TS]

01:01:46   it killed me I like one of the reasons I [TS]

01:01:49   had to upgrade was just because like I [TS]

01:01:50   just kept slamming into that because [TS]

01:01:51   like you know when you want you to my [TS]

01:01:53   iOS development you need a ton of disk [TS]

01:01:55   space to keep up with all the you know [TS]

01:01:58   betas and everything else so anyway so [TS]

01:02:00   512 SSD everything else is based on it [TS]

01:02:03   and it has Apple care because it was [TS]

01:02:06   bought in September of 2016 like a month [TS]

01:02:10   before the new ones came out it has [TS]

01:02:12   Apple Care till 29 [TS]

01:02:14   the battery only had 50 cycles on it and [TS]

01:02:16   it was 1,600 bucks to get the same thing [TS]

01:02:19   new from Apple with Apple care would be [TS]

01:02:21   $2,800 oh so I decided to go used on it [TS]

01:02:25   and it's totally great and because so [TS]

01:02:27   here's you know basically what happened [TS]

01:02:29   here is my plan of you of getting the [TS]

01:02:34   2017 15 inch and using it all summer at [TS]

01:02:37   the beach and then bringing it home [TS]

01:02:38   bring the LG 5k home and using that as [TS]

01:02:40   my desktop until the Mac Pro comes out [TS]

01:02:42   that plan ended up being just not not [TS]

01:02:45   working for me because it ends up the 15 [TS]

01:02:48   inch is not a great desktop it can serve [TS]

01:02:50   as one wait you know with the LG Display [TS]

01:02:52   like it can be a desktop but it's not a [TS]

01:02:54   very good desktop I would rather use my [TS]

01:02:56   three year old iMac that that is [TS]

01:02:58   purpose-built for that then then use [TS]

01:03:00   that you know the weird you know like [TS]

01:03:02   weird clamshell and everything else so [TS]

01:03:04   I'm just gonna try to keep using my [TS]

01:03:06   using my Mac and you know I gave these [TS]

01:03:09   butterfly keyboards a year I first had a [TS]

01:03:12   2016 touch bar 15-inch sold it [TS]

01:03:16   switch to the MacBook Escape sold that [TS]

01:03:18   to my curly and switched back to this [TS]

01:03:21   this summer when I wouldn't I just when [TS]

01:03:23   I had this hairbrained desktop idea I I [TS]

01:03:25   gave this keyboard a year I've had the [TS]

01:03:27   2016 version and the 2017 version [TS]

01:03:30   they're all just incredibly incompatible [TS]

01:03:34   with me I thought I'd get used to it I [TS]

01:03:37   didn't I hated every single minute of [TS]

01:03:39   typing on it every single time I would [TS]

01:03:41   think to use that computer I would be [TS]

01:03:43   kind of it would turn me off from [TS]

01:03:46   wanting to use my laptop to know to have [TS]

01:03:50   that keyboard there because every single [TS]

01:03:52   time I typed on that keyboard I hated it [TS]

01:03:55   and every time I said you know maybe [TS]

01:03:57   everyone's right and I'll get used to it [TS]

01:03:58   and i gave it a year people and i didn't [TS]

01:04:01   get used to it and every time i like i [TS]

01:04:04   would i would see someone else's like [TS]

01:04:06   what you were just saying about the [TS]

01:04:08   conference room every time I would see [TS]

01:04:10   someone else's 2015 era 13 or 15 inch [TS]

01:04:13   retina MacBook Pro I would be like oh [TS]

01:04:15   man I wish I never sold mine I like that [TS]

01:04:18   so much better if they show you and I [TS]

01:04:20   started browsing eBay I'm like you know [TS]

01:04:22   what these are not that expensive to get [TS]

01:04:24   to get one that's very lightly used [TS]

01:04:25   these are really pretty and expect [TS]

01:04:28   and I can sell the one I have for [TS]

01:04:30   probably like $2,800 and so I walked [TS]

01:04:34   about it for a while and I was worried [TS]

01:04:35   I'm like is it gonna feel really old am [TS]

01:04:38   I gonna regret like am I gonna regret [TS]

01:04:40   you know losing USBC am I going to you [TS]

01:04:44   know regret that it's bigger and heavier [TS]

01:04:45   am I gonna is is just everything gonna [TS]

01:04:48   feel and look old and I'm gonna feel [TS]

01:04:49   like I'm stepping back into the past my [TS]

01:04:52   impression of this has quite surprised [TS]

01:04:53   me actually nothing about it feels [TS]

01:04:56   bigger or heavier it is but it's such a [TS]

01:05:00   small difference that honestly when you [TS]

01:05:02   go the other direction you don't really [TS]

01:05:04   notice it like it's it's it's a half [TS]

01:05:07   pound heavier and it's you know a couple [TS]

01:05:09   of millimeters wider in each dimension [TS]

01:05:11   or something like that like it's not [TS]

01:05:12   it's not that much different like you [TS]

01:05:16   didn't like for all the crazy things we [TS]

01:05:18   gave up to go to the super thin you know [TS]

01:05:21   USBC models it didn't actually get that [TS]

01:05:24   much thinner or that much lighter so oh [TS]

01:05:27   and the battery life is better on 2015's [TS]

01:05:28   by the way on this used 2015 model the [TS]

01:05:31   battery life is better than my almost [TS]

01:05:32   new 2017 model and not by a small amount [TS]

01:05:35   either because surprise the battery is [TS]

01:05:38   twenty thirty three percent bigger so [TS]

01:05:41   it's that actually matters you know even [TS]

01:05:44   with an older processor so anyway you [TS]

01:05:47   don't notice the size difference when [TS]

01:05:50   you go the other direction I did not [TS]

01:05:52   notice the loss of the trackpad size I [TS]

01:05:55   did not like I you just immediately [TS]

01:05:57   adjust in fact it's actually easier [TS]

01:06:00   because now there's no more accidental [TS]

01:06:01   trackpad input when you brush against it [TS]

01:06:03   I did not notice the loss of the touch [TS]

01:06:06   bar because I always hated it and never [TS]

01:06:07   really got into using it I occasionally [TS]

01:06:10   miss touch ID but not much I love having [TS]

01:06:14   the arrow keys back to the way they were [TS]

01:06:16   because I can feel them because you need [TS]

01:06:19   arrow keys that have a different shape [TS]

01:06:20   than the rest of the keys because they [TS]

01:06:22   are far away from the home row so when [TS]

01:06:24   you reach over to them you you are not [TS]

01:06:27   as precise as you would be with keys [TS]

01:06:29   near the home row because you're moving [TS]

01:06:31   your hand a little bit so you need there [TS]

01:06:33   to be some kind of tactile feedback so [TS]

01:06:36   you can feel where the right keys are in [TS]

01:06:38   order to hit the right one [TS]

01:06:40   that's why the new generation arrow keys [TS]

01:06:43   that have no metal gap in them and that [TS]

01:06:45   are all the same height are so easy to [TS]

01:06:47   hit the wrong one on because your hand [TS]

01:06:49   is moving over there and hat and has [TS]

01:06:52   nothing to anchor itself based on feel [TS]

01:06:54   so the arrow keys in this are perfect [TS]

01:06:56   they feel wonderful the rest of the [TS]

01:06:58   keyboard is perfect and feels wonderful [TS]

01:07:00   for about a second [TS]

01:07:02   it felt mushy and then it felt great [TS]

01:07:03   that took no adjustment time the ports [TS]

01:07:07   are luxurious I got to remove oh geez I [TS]

01:07:12   mean a whole bag full of stuff from my [TS]

01:07:14   travel bag like I got to remove so much [TS]

01:07:17   crap so many dongles my entire dongle [TS]

01:07:20   bag is now just in storage until I until [TS]

01:07:23   I have to switch back to a USB sometime [TS]

01:07:25   in the future so that's like my travel [TS]

01:07:27   bag is so simple it's just the laptop [TS]

01:07:30   and a power adapter and a couple of the [TS]

01:07:32   USB cables that I was already bringing [TS]

01:07:34   before because nothing else in the world [TS]

01:07:36   is USB see so like I was already [TS]

01:07:38   traveling with USB of lightning cables [TS]

01:07:40   so I could plug them into hotel you know [TS]

01:07:42   lamp tables and stuff so I'm just using [TS]

01:07:45   those now to travel with and the [TS]

01:07:48   computer and the power cable that's it I [TS]

01:07:51   don't need a SD card reader I don't need [TS]

01:07:53   any dongles I don't need any hubs and [TS]

01:07:56   HDMI adapters and everything it just [TS]

01:07:58   works and it's all built in and it looks [TS]

01:08:02   great and it feels great and it feels [TS]

01:08:04   like a computer that was designed for [TS]

01:08:07   use not a computer that I have to adapt [TS]

01:08:12   myself to it you know this computer was [TS]

01:08:15   designed for me to use it and I am just [TS]

01:08:19   so much happier the only thing I miss [TS]

01:08:22   about the new one I don't miss the [TS]

01:08:25   thinness I don't miss the lightness I [TS]

01:08:26   don't miss the Space Gray because by the [TS]

01:08:29   way the Space Gray you know that's a [TS]

01:08:31   very fragile coating and that [TS]

01:08:32   that'll that'll chip pretty easily if [TS]

01:08:33   you if you even Nick it a little bit the [TS]

01:08:36   only thing I missed surprisingly is I [TS]

01:08:40   actually kind of Miss having USB see for [TS]

01:08:43   power even though I don't miss the old [TS]

01:08:45   the USB see brick that doesn't have the [TS]

01:08:46   little cable management wings it is nice [TS]

01:08:49   to be able to use other third-party [TS]

01:08:52   chargers so really for example like the [TS]

01:08:54   anchor 60 [TS]

01:08:54   what thing that I that I have it would [TS]

01:08:57   be like it's nice to use that it would [TS]

01:08:59   be nice to be able to use USBC batteries [TS]

01:09:02   if I knew if I needed to on the plane [TS]

01:09:03   but ultimately that isn't that much of a [TS]

01:09:05   problem because this thing has a ninety [TS]

01:09:08   nine point five watt power battery in it [TS]

01:09:10   it's a pretty big battery the battery [TS]

01:09:13   life is pretty good [TS]

01:09:15   it probably won't ever won't need a [TS]

01:09:17   battery in practice it's just great [TS]

01:09:20   it doesn't feel noticeably slow it [TS]

01:09:22   doesn't like there's nothing there's no [TS]

01:09:23   other downsides to it and in fact when [TS]

01:09:26   you buy an old one off of ebay not only [TS]

01:09:28   do you save a ton of money all the [TS]

01:09:30   accessories cost way less than they did [TS]

01:09:32   when they were new so like I long ago I [TS]

01:09:34   got rid of my Thunderbolt II ether nerds [TS]

01:09:36   after because I thought I would never [TS]

01:09:37   use it again so I had to buy a new one [TS]

01:09:38   to use Ethernet here at home for this [TS]

01:09:40   because that's how I tear out my [TS]

01:09:41   computers and you know I think when it [TS]

01:09:44   was new it was like 30 or 40 or 50 bucks [TS]

01:09:46   I got one on eBay new for like ninety [TS]

01:09:50   nineteen dollars [TS]

01:09:51   I have another another power adapter an [TS]

01:09:54   extra power after coming tomorrow also [TS]

01:09:57   knew that was thirty dollars like it's [TS]

01:09:59   just it's just great like I think [TS]

01:10:04   there's a reason they still sell this [TS]

01:10:05   because it's a fantastic computer that [TS]

01:10:08   I've had a lot of people are still [TS]

01:10:09   buying it's it's just great I'm so happy [TS]

01:10:12   with it and I hope that I can use it [TS]

01:10:15   until they make a computer that I [TS]

01:10:17   actually that actually is better for me [TS]

01:10:18   I have thoughts so first of all this is [TS]

01:10:26   the epitome of different strokes for [TS]

01:10:28   different folks right because I have [TS]

01:10:30   basically this machine as a work machine [TS]

01:10:33   and we are still buying or really [TS]

01:10:35   leasing this machine brand-new for [TS]

01:10:39   incoming employees and coming engineers [TS]

01:10:41   we do not have a touch bar Mac that is [TS]

01:10:44   being issued by my company yet I forget [TS]

01:10:48   the reasoning behind it but it basically [TS]

01:10:51   boils down to it provides little to no [TS]

01:10:53   benefits so why bother every time I'm [TS]

01:10:58   away from my desk and away from my [TS]

01:11:00   wireless magic keyboard and have to type [TS]

01:11:03   on my work laptops keyboard I hate it [TS]

01:11:07   God do I hate it it's mushy it's sloppy [TS]

01:11:11   and it just feels friggin gross and it's [TS]

01:11:15   funny to me because you have the exact [TS]

01:11:17   same opinion but the other direction in [TS]

01:11:21   that we are like polar opposites on this [TS]

01:11:23   and you know what that's that's fine you [TS]

01:11:25   know everyone has an opinion that's okay [TS]

01:11:26   what works for you is great what works [TS]

01:11:28   for me is great and that's fine but it's [TS]

01:11:32   funny to me that you prefer this so [TS]

01:11:35   heavily particularly the keyboard like [TS]

01:11:36   the rest of it yeah that makes sense but [TS]

01:11:38   particularly the keyboard I'm surprised [TS]

01:11:39   you prefer it that much my question for [TS]

01:11:42   you though is what's your long game on [TS]

01:11:45   this like you're just gonna pull a [TS]

01:11:46   siracusa and run this until you can't [TS]

01:11:48   get whatever ridiculous California code [TS]

01:11:50   name is like three or four versions now [TS]

01:11:52   like what what is the long game because [TS]

01:11:55   eventually I I reckon you're either so [TS]

01:11:57   there's only a couple of ways to go [TS]

01:11:59   right you use this until you can't [TS]

01:12:01   anymore [TS]

01:12:01   and then you're gonna have to figure out [TS]

01:12:03   a new plan you wait for Apple to have an [TS]

01:12:06   oops [TS]

01:12:07   we're sorry which to be fair is [TS]

01:12:09   certainly possible but not exactly their [TS]

01:12:13   style now I would say unlikely yeah and [TS]

01:12:16   unlikely and I feel like I had a third [TS]

01:12:18   but I lost it but do you see what I'm [TS]

01:12:19   saying like you just go to I guess you [TS]

01:12:21   buy a Lenovo like you know what is what [TS]

01:12:24   is the long play for you then I mean I [TS]

01:12:26   could hackintosh it with someone else's [TS]

01:12:28   laptop but no I mean it the long-term [TS]

01:12:29   play here is I hope this lasts me long [TS]

01:12:32   enough that I either stop caring about [TS]

01:12:34   having a good laptop stop needing a good [TS]

01:12:37   laptop or Apple starts making better [TS]

01:12:39   ones and as simple as that I mean I hope [TS]

01:12:42   it lasts that long if not I'm gonna have [TS]

01:12:45   to figure something else out it could be [TS]

01:12:47   next summer they might release a new one [TS]

01:12:49   that I like and that I switched to that [TS]

01:12:50   I have no idea but honestly I don't I [TS]

01:12:53   think that would be too soon I believe [TS]

01:12:55   that would seem very unlikely to me my [TS]

01:12:57   long-term plan here is like when the [TS]

01:13:00   when the scroll Direction changed in Mac [TS]

01:13:04   OS whenever that which ramen was that [TS]

01:13:06   like lion or something it was a it was a [TS]

01:13:08   while ago now yeah maybe even earlier [TS]

01:13:10   than that yeah so when the scroll [TS]

01:13:13   Direction changed I I thought you know [TS]

01:13:15   they have an option to keep it the other [TS]

01:13:18   direction but we know how Apple is [TS]

01:13:21   only there's only gonna be a limited [TS]

01:13:22   time that that options gonna be there so [TS]

01:13:25   I might as well get used to the new one [TS]

01:13:26   now and switch so I switched immediately [TS]

01:13:29   hated it gave it like a few days still [TS]

01:13:33   hated it and I switch back you know I [TS]

01:13:35   thought you know what there might come a [TS]

01:13:37   time where I don't have this choice [TS]

01:13:38   anymore but that time hasn't come yet so [TS]

01:13:41   let me just enjoy the way I like it [TS]

01:13:43   while I still have the choice and then [TS]

01:13:45   when the time comes the forces for you [TS]

01:13:47   to make to make a choice don't want to [TS]

01:13:48   make I'll deal with it then so that's [TS]

01:13:51   kind of my philosophy with this like [TS]

01:13:52   this is not a sustainable plan to just [TS]

01:13:55   keep using the 2015 MacBook Pro forever [TS]

01:13:57   like obviously it's not a sustainable [TS]

01:13:58   plan but I don't need to give it up [TS]

01:14:01   right now I am way happier with this [TS]

01:14:03   laptop right now than I am with the 2017 [TS]

01:14:06   model and so I can use this for probably [TS]

01:14:09   a while I'm probably going to want to [TS]

01:14:12   move to something else before I'm forced [TS]

01:14:14   to move to something else and I dread [TS]

01:14:16   and so I might as well enjoy this while [TS]

01:14:18   I can while it is still great while it [TS]

01:14:20   is still competitive and useful and and [TS]

01:14:22   works great when the time comes for [TS]

01:14:25   whatever reason that stops being the [TS]

01:14:27   case then I'll figure it out that [TS]

01:14:30   real-time follow-up it was lying by the [TS]

01:14:33   way where they had the feature and all [TS]

01:14:34   right I'm and I am still I still have [TS]

01:14:37   that in a non default setting as well [TS]

01:14:39   because wait the two of you are saying [TS]

01:14:42   that you are not on natural scrolling [TS]

01:14:45   you're on the the scrolling from the 80s [TS]

01:14:47   cool yeah yes oh my word you're so old [TS]

01:14:50   the two of you I mean you you're so [TS]

01:14:54   there's no reason to change it like I [TS]

01:14:56   mean I'm I'm I didn't even try to get [TS]

01:14:59   used to the new way because they they [TS]

01:15:01   gave you an option from day one to not [TS]

01:15:04   do that I'm like oh well it's not like I [TS]

01:15:05   just don't even appeal aside it's a GUI [TS]

01:15:06   option unchecked never think about it [TS]

01:15:08   again and they've sustained that like [TS]

01:15:11   it's it's still there still you can do [TS]

01:15:13   the opposite way and so that's the way I [TS]

01:15:15   like it [TS]

01:15:16   I also remap command end to new folder [TS]

01:15:18   because I've been doing it since I was [TS]

01:15:20   10 years old and there's a paper in the [TS]

01:15:22   operating system that lets you assign [TS]

01:15:23   keyboard shortcuts to any menu in any [TS]

01:15:25   application and it's a supportive thing [TS]

01:15:27   so of course I do it like I don't I [TS]

01:15:29   don't see why I wouldn't like that's [TS]

01:15:30   part of a computer being a computer [TS]

01:15:31   right that's what separates us from the [TS]

01:15:34   the multipad mongrels right guess what I [TS]

01:15:42   can reassign in it not by hacking [TS]

01:15:44   something it's a feature of the [TS]

01:15:45   operating systems workflow system System [TS]

01:15:48   Preferences you just go there and type [TS]

01:15:49   like it's a real thing anyway yeah [TS]

01:15:52   and I kind of feel the same way about [TS]

01:15:54   scroll direction like if forced I'm you [TS]

01:15:57   know they take it away and there's no [TS]

01:15:58   plist hack or whatever I probably won't [TS]

01:16:00   go to heroic links to get it back but I [TS]

01:16:02   might grumble but you might grumble yeah [TS]

01:16:06   I think Markos plan is mostly [TS]

01:16:08   sustainable because like anna i still [TS]

01:16:13   keep thinking perhaps wrongly that we [TS]

01:16:16   are in the beginnings of a mac [TS]

01:16:18   renaissance and that it's going to take [TS]

01:16:21   a while because computers take a long [TS]

01:16:23   time like the pipeline is long but that [TS]

01:16:25   Apple is indeed reconsidering some of [TS]

01:16:28   its broad decisions about how it makes [TS]

01:16:30   Macs and so the new keyboard that has [TS]

01:16:33   more travel and is more reliable and is [TS]

01:16:37   more pleasing to people who don't like [TS]

01:16:38   the new one and is only on the 15-inch [TS]

01:16:41   model or whatever that's not coming like [TS]

01:16:43   anytime soon but if they start on it now [TS]

01:16:47   in three years it will be here and [TS]

01:16:49   that's you know like them reconsidering [TS]

01:16:53   how they build their computers and what [TS]

01:16:55   people want out of them like satisfying [TS]

01:16:58   Mac users again that Mac Roundtable [TS]

01:16:59   everything they said that Mac roundtable [TS]

01:17:01   was essentially we hear you we've [TS]

01:17:04   realized we've been doing things in the [TS]

01:17:06   wrong way and we're going to change [TS]

01:17:08   course and try to do them in the right [TS]

01:17:09   way like the way that will make [TS]

01:17:11   everybody happy [TS]

01:17:12   starting with hey the Mac Pro we were [TS]

01:17:14   gonna get rid of it we didn't think it [TS]

01:17:15   was necessary but actually it is how far [TS]

01:17:18   that goes I don't know but if you're a [TS]

01:17:21   little patience I like I think you have [TS]

01:17:24   to give it time this takes you know [TS]

01:17:25   there's a long pipe but you know the [TS]

01:17:27   pipeline takes a while to to flush all [TS]

01:17:30   this bad stuff out of the system before [TS]

01:17:31   you see the new ones and it's just a [TS]

01:17:33   question of how far they'll go the Mac [TS]

01:17:34   Pro is gonna be a great test if the Mac [TS]

01:17:36   Pro comes out and it's another cylinder [TS]

01:17:38   type exercise that does not bode well [TS]

01:17:41   for Marco's eBay computer because he's [TS]

01:17:44   gonna be hanging about for a while while [TS]

01:17:46   he waits for them you know [TS]

01:17:47   Oh like one approach they could take is [TS]

01:17:50   we know a lot of people love the new [TS]

01:17:52   keyboard I kind of like it too by the [TS]

01:17:54   way like I'd almost never use it so I [TS]

01:17:56   think my laptop at work is actually a [TS]

01:17:58   great test case because of my laptop [TS]

01:18:00   keyboard of work dies that's a bad sign [TS]

01:18:02   because I type on it so little like I [TS]

01:18:05   type on my other keyboard all the time [TS]

01:18:06   it's not but it could be that a lot of [TS]

01:18:10   people like that and one way they could [TS]

01:18:11   go is we'll just make that reliable find [TS]

01:18:13   a way to make that keyboard that feels [TS]

01:18:15   like that the case he really likes and [TS]

01:18:16   that a lot of the people really like and [TS]

01:18:18   that I kind of like - other than the [TS]

01:18:20   arrow keys and all the other laptop [TS]

01:18:21   keyboard crap that I hate just because [TS]

01:18:22   of key layout just make that reliable if [TS]

01:18:26   that's what they do in three years again [TS]

01:18:28   bad sign for Marco so we have many [TS]

01:18:31   things to be watching but I'm I'm you [TS]

01:18:33   know I'm still entertaining fantasies [TS]

01:18:35   that they are really turning the ship [TS]

01:18:36   here and they're gonna let the Mac be [TS]

01:18:39   the Mac in hardware and in software and [TS]

01:18:42   make all of us old-school Mac users [TS]

01:18:46   happy because honestly it's like who are [TS]

01:18:48   you trying to make happy with the Mac's [TS]

01:18:50   who is who's super happy with these new [TS]

01:18:52   computers make people might like them [TS]

01:18:53   and I know a lot of people do like the [TS]

01:18:55   new keyboard but I don't think anybody [TS]

01:18:57   is head over heels for the new laptops [TS]

01:18:59   and nobody was really head over heels [TS]

01:19:01   for the new Mac Pro either so there's [TS]

01:19:04   some work to be done there and hapless [TS]

01:19:05   as they're gonna do it and I feel like I [TS]

01:19:07   want to give him a chance to bowl me [TS]

01:19:09   over before really was topic we should [TS]

01:19:11   also mention the amazing article by [TS]

01:19:14   Casey Johnson at the outline about the [TS]

01:19:16   keyboards that came out yesterday that [TS]

01:19:19   like you know the basically going [TS]

01:19:21   through her process of like having to [TS]

01:19:23   get keys repaired multiple times the [TS]

01:19:25   Genius Bar the crazy things they tell [TS]

01:19:27   her the you know the the the like [TS]

01:19:30   feigned surprise oh it must be a speck [TS]

01:19:32   of dust it's like come on this is a [TS]

01:19:35   white spring like they should know about [TS]

01:19:37   this by now it's a gray Oracle that I [TS]

01:19:40   think everybody should read it spawned a [TS]

01:19:42   lot of discussion around the other blogs [TS]

01:19:44   as well pretty much everyone linked to [TS]

01:19:46   it and said yeah me too you know and you [TS]

01:19:49   know so it's it's pretty great and you [TS]

01:19:53   know just to add to this there are a lot [TS]

01:19:55   of people when when stuff like this [TS]

01:19:58   comes out like when when we complain [TS]

01:19:59   about the keyboard here [TS]

01:20:01   or when other people complain about it [TS]

01:20:03   or even people report problems with it [TS]

01:20:04   there's a lot of people who are like [TS]

01:20:06   well I love it it's my favorite keyboard [TS]

01:20:07   ever and the old ones all feel like crap [TS]

01:20:09   to me now I'm not that different from [TS]

01:20:11   cases opinion of it and I want to just [TS]

01:20:13   state two separate things here you know [TS]

01:20:15   number one you can love it [TS]

01:20:18   you can love the way the new keyboard [TS]

01:20:19   feels that is a separate thing from is [TS]

01:20:23   it reliable or not like if the new [TS]

01:20:26   keyboard has as many problems as it [TS]

01:20:28   appears to have anecdotally from almost [TS]

01:20:31   everyone I know who has one and almost [TS]

01:20:33   everyone who I've asked on Twitter [TS]

01:20:35   problems are widespread with keys [TS]

01:20:38   getting stuck or breaking widespread it [TS]

01:20:41   certainly seems like this is a pretty [TS]

01:20:43   big problem and it's also important to [TS]

01:20:46   point out these laptops aren't very old [TS]

01:20:48   and they're having these problems [TS]

01:20:49   already you know in many cases they have [TS]

01:20:51   these problems within a few months of [TS]

01:20:52   ownership so it's you know there there [TS]

01:20:55   are problems with this keyboard you can [TS]

01:20:57   like it you can like the way it feels [TS]

01:20:59   but if it has problems with reliability [TS]

01:21:02   it's a bad keyboard regardless of what [TS]

01:21:05   you think of yours personally my second [TS]

01:21:08   thing to point out is that these aren't [TS]

01:21:11   the only two choices we have you have [TS]

01:21:14   the 2015 and B an earlier keyboard and [TS]

01:21:16   you have the you know MacBook hard as a [TS]

01:21:19   rock keyboard that breaks constantly [TS]

01:21:21   there are other options for keyboards [TS]

01:21:23   that I'll book an use and in fact they [TS]

01:21:26   already have one and Cayce already loves [TS]

01:21:29   it it's called the magic keyboard - the [TS]

01:21:32   magic keyboard - is very very thin [TS]

01:21:36   it has Johnny's dumb layout where [TS]

01:21:39   there's no space between any of the keys [TS]

01:21:40   and the arrow keys are all the same that [TS]

01:21:41   are all square and have no gap so you [TS]

01:21:43   can't feel the where they are so it [TS]

01:21:46   satisfies apple's needs to be thin and [TS]

01:21:48   be symmetric at the cost of feeling good [TS]

01:21:50   it has pretty shallow travel feels very [TS]

01:21:53   precise has a much more precise click [TS]

01:21:56   and less wobbly nests in the old 2015 [TS]

01:21:59   laptop keyboards best thing is that uses [TS]

01:22:03   scissor switches the old reliable [TS]

01:22:05   scissor switches that didn't die when [TS]

01:22:07   one speck of dust got in one key Apple [TS]

01:22:10   already has the solution to this problem [TS]

01:22:12   they can have a modern clicky or feel [TS]

01:22:15   with lower [TS]

01:22:15   Travel they can have the stupid layout [TS]

01:22:19   that they want of the keys with no space [TS]

01:22:20   and bad arrow key is and it can be super [TS]

01:22:23   thin but it can also have reliable key [TS]

01:22:26   switches that also do provide a little [TS]

01:22:28   more travel than the MacBook keyboard [TS]

01:22:30   and a little less travel than 2015 [TS]

01:22:32   keyboard so it's kind of this nice hat [TS]

01:22:34   that's nice happy medium there and it [TS]

01:22:36   should be way more reliable so all they [TS]

01:22:40   have to do is take that keyboard that [TS]

01:22:42   they already make and find a way to put [TS]

01:22:44   that into laptops and if you go to a [TS]

01:22:46   store and you look at a magic keyboard [TS]

01:22:48   they're pretty damn thin I have a [TS]

01:22:51   feeling they Apple can figure out how to [TS]

01:22:53   do that so being the optimist again I [TS]

01:22:57   think that you know again it takes a [TS]

01:23:00   while for these decisions to make it [TS]

01:23:01   from like we've decided to do a thing to [TS]

01:23:03   do manifesting a product so it still [TS]

01:23:05   could be years but their recent changes [TS]

01:23:09   in the iOS device line [TS]

01:23:11   give me some optimism here one of the [TS]

01:23:13   best examples is both the iPhone 7 and [TS]

01:23:16   the iPhone 10 and I guess the eights as [TS]

01:23:18   well like the iPhone 7 prioritising [TS]

01:23:22   battery life and going with the same [TS]

01:23:23   form factor for the third year in a row [TS]

01:23:25   and getting so much better battery life [TS]

01:23:27   than the 6 and also the 10 the 10 not [TS]

01:23:31   being you know even thinner than the 7 [TS]

01:23:35   like it's saying we're going to you know [TS]

01:23:37   either make it thicker or keep it the [TS]

01:23:39   same thickness and we're gonna spend [TS]

01:23:41   that on battery the two extra hours of [TS]

01:23:43   battery life shows a change in [TS]

01:23:45   philosophy from every single year we're [TS]

01:23:47   going to keep making it thinner and [TS]

01:23:48   thinner and just try to maintain past [TS]

01:23:51   two iterations have been we're not going [TS]

01:23:54   to try to make it thinner at all costs [TS]

01:23:56   and just maintain we want to increase [TS]

01:23:59   battery life 7 was better than the 6 and [TS]

01:24:01   this 10 is way better than the 7 two [TS]

01:24:03   hours they advertise and that's what [TS]

01:24:05   exactly what we've asked them until [TS]

01:24:06   you're making the wrong choices you're [TS]

01:24:07   making it too thin [TS]

01:24:08   go in the other direction and it took [TS]

01:24:11   many many years for that to happen but [TS]

01:24:12   they did it so I am optimistic that even [TS]

01:24:17   if it's not the exact magic keyboard [TS]

01:24:18   that three years from now the new [TS]

01:24:21   professional laptop will have a keyboard [TS]

01:24:24   that is reliable and maybe that also has [TS]

01:24:28   more key travel [TS]

01:24:29   maybe not because I and I don't know [TS]

01:24:31   what the percentages are for people who [TS]

01:24:32   like the new one and people who don't [TS]

01:24:34   and like I said I kind of like it but [TS]

01:24:37   certainly the reliability whatever they [TS]

01:24:39   have to do that and by the way on the [TS]

01:24:39   reliability front someone who's been [TS]

01:24:41   using scissors switch keys for a long [TS]

01:24:43   time and who's had them on laptops for a [TS]

01:24:44   long time they are way more reliable [TS]

01:24:47   obviously than they than the butterfly [TS]

01:24:49   ones that proven to be but they're also [TS]

01:24:51   less reliable than their predecessors I [TS]

01:24:53   have broken keyboards with these scissor [TS]

01:24:56   switches multiple times I've worn [TS]

01:24:58   through at least one possibly two [TS]

01:25:01   because one of my keys is sometimes [TS]

01:25:02   wonky at work [TS]

01:25:03   aluminum Apple extended the keyboards I [TS]

01:25:06   have broken keys on PowerBook g4 era [TS]

01:25:10   computers which also has switches under [TS]

01:25:13   their very different-looking key caps [TS]

01:25:14   right I have never broken a key a key [TS]

01:25:18   switch on an Apple extended to which I [TS]

01:25:20   use for years and years in the years [TS]

01:25:22   since like 1989 or whatever in the ac30 [TS]

01:25:25   came out I have never broken a key [TS]

01:25:27   switch on any keys before that so if you [TS]

01:25:28   want to compare reliability for the [TS]

01:25:30   little plastic scissor switch things [TS]

01:25:32   compared to the quote-unquote mechanical [TS]

01:25:35   keys and other keyboards on the term [TS]

01:25:37   that drives me nuts as if it is a [TS]

01:25:42   downgrade and reliability for size it's [TS]

01:25:44   just a question of is it an acceptable [TS]

01:25:46   downgrade me using an Apple extended [TS]

01:25:48   Apple aluminum extended keyboard for [TS]

01:25:51   seven years and then I break a key Mike [TS]

01:25:53   alright I've been pounding on this [TS]

01:25:55   keyboard 8 hours a day at work for seven [TS]

01:25:56   years I accept that I have now broken [TS]

01:25:59   one of the very commonly used keys and I [TS]

01:26:01   can kind of get it to fix because I'm [TS]

01:26:04   pretty good at like prying off these key [TS]

01:26:05   caps and putting it back on but it's [TS]

01:26:06   always a little bit wonky you know what [TS]

01:26:07   7 years good job keyboard your filthy [TS]

01:26:09   anyway because I haven't been cleaning [TS]

01:26:11   he well enough buy another keyboard 50 [TS]

01:26:14   bucks in your fine that we're willing I [TS]

01:26:17   think we're all willing to trade that [TS]

01:26:19   even though Apple extended to you could [TS]

01:26:21   you know defend yourself from a mugger [TS]

01:26:23   with and it will still work fine like [TS]

01:26:25   there is no you know I mean like [TS]

01:26:27   literally never broke I I remember right [TS]

01:26:30   I dropped a pocketknife off a high shelf [TS]

01:26:32   and it landed on the keyboard with like [TS]

01:26:35   the blade out because I don't know had [TS]

01:26:36   my knife and my blade out and it like [TS]

01:26:38   cut off like the corner of one of the [TS]

01:26:41   keys [TS]

01:26:42   that thing was still fine like enough [TS]

01:26:45   force to actually cut the plastic of the [TS]

01:26:47   key cap of the key switch was fine so [TS]

01:26:49   the thing was like a tank but you know [TS]

01:26:51   so there's there's leeway for Apple to [TS]

01:26:54   be thinner be more elegant be lighter [TS]

01:26:57   weight reduced reliability just don't [TS]

01:27:00   reduce it quite that much and it feels [TS]

01:27:02   like they've they've gone too far with [TS]

01:27:03   this one so I I have some hope that they [TS]

01:27:07   are going to turn the ship on this one [TS]

01:27:09   and it frustrates me that none of us [TS]

01:27:12   know how widespread this problem really [TS]

01:27:14   is we just you know so all anecdotes and [TS]

01:27:17   like oh yeah of course you know everyone [TS]

01:27:18   who's even respond to Casey's article [TS]

01:27:20   not this Casey the other one is gonna be [TS]

01:27:22   like people who have keyboard problems [TS]

01:27:23   the same thing with like when marco was [TS]

01:27:25   complaining about the keyboard you know [TS]

01:27:27   a year ago of course we heard from all [TS]

01:27:30   the other people who hate the keyboard [TS]

01:27:31   now the other people have reliability [TS]

01:27:32   problems right but we can't tell [TS]

01:27:35   percentage-wise it's not it's not a it's [TS]

01:27:38   not a representative sample it's just [TS]

01:27:42   the people who are at the extremes and [TS]

01:27:44   probably mostly people that agree with [TS]

01:27:45   us but Apple knows and I think Apple [TS]

01:27:49   geniuses probably kind of know because [TS]

01:27:52   they you know they're just they're [TS]

01:27:53   taking all the repairs and stuff so I [TS]

01:27:57   wish we knew exactly how much we're [TS]

01:28:00   overreacting to this and not but [TS]

01:28:01   anecdotally it just seems so clear that [TS]

01:28:05   like Marco said these are new computers [TS]

01:28:07   the keyboards are already failing Casey [TS]

01:28:10   Johnston's article like it is the the it [TS]

01:28:13   is of a type of you know a very typical [TS]

01:28:15   article where if you are in if you were [TS]

01:28:18   in the industry of like writing about [TS]

01:28:19   these type of products and you [TS]

01:28:21   personally have to bring your brand-new [TS]

01:28:24   computer back three times because the [TS]

01:28:27   keyboard won't work that's like that's [TS]

01:28:31   you know I'm writing an article about [TS]

01:28:32   this because this is way outside the [TS]

01:28:34   realm of expectation three times like [TS]

01:28:36   fine something you get it doesn't work [TS]

01:28:37   once you get a repair like and now that [TS]

01:28:38   it's repaired it'll be fine especially [TS]

01:28:40   if it's like you're bringing in oh this [TS]

01:28:42   is the new 2017 keyboard with the rubber [TS]

01:28:44   bubble blood now it's repaired that's [TS]

01:28:46   fine but if you bring in and they [TS]

01:28:48   replace a huge a piece of the computer [TS]

01:28:49   at great expense and it's just you all [TS]

01:28:52   you've done it starts the timer again [TS]

01:28:53   and go to yeah [TS]

01:28:56   six weeks have passed out bring it back [TS]

01:28:57   in again that'll be another three to [TS]

01:28:59   seven hundred dollars and new one just [TS]

01:29:01   like that's just a bad design like if [TS]

01:29:03   there's no hope if you feel like [TS]

01:29:04   bringing it in and getting huge parts of [TS]

01:29:06   your computer replaced because it's all [TS]

01:29:08   one giant thing doesn't make you feel [TS]

01:29:11   like now this problem is fixed all it [TS]

01:29:13   makes you feel like is you just started [TS]

01:29:14   a timer on the next failure again that's [TS]

01:29:17   just a bad design and that's I like I [TS]

01:29:20   really hope that you know we're [TS]

01:29:23   capturing these devices and we're [TS]

01:29:25   looking at the issue and we're taking [TS]

01:29:26   stock and it's actually not that big a [TS]

01:29:28   percentage and blah blah blah like I [TS]

01:29:29   know I don't I don't know what to [TS]

01:29:31   believe but I do know the hopelessness [TS]

01:29:33   of that feeling I kind of felt it with [TS]

01:29:35   my Thunderbolt Display when I would [TS]

01:29:36   bring it in and get it quote-unquote [TS]

01:29:38   repaired with huge amounts of the guts [TS]

01:29:39   replaced but then I would get it back on [TS]

01:29:41   the same problem would be there and I [TS]

01:29:43   had to bring that in three times as well [TS]

01:29:44   but luckily the third time was the charm [TS]

01:29:45   and you know that did it but these [TS]

01:29:48   keyboards I have very little faith that [TS]

01:29:50   your third repair is going to be any [TS]

01:29:52   more successful than your first or [TS]

01:29:54   second repair especially if you've got [TS]

01:29:56   the quote-unquote new keyboard on the [TS]

01:29:58   second repair and the third repair so [TS]

01:30:00   this is all the type of thing that makes [TS]

01:30:02   me believe that Apple will change its [TS]

01:30:06   mind on this design a new keyboard or [TS]

01:30:09   adapt the the the magic one that the [TS]

01:30:11   other case is so confusing [TS]

01:30:14   and in two to three years we will see a [TS]

01:30:17   new 15 inch with these new keys and [TS]

01:30:20   Apple will talk about it in a subtle but [TS]

01:30:23   not particularly self-deprecating way [TS]

01:30:25   and we will all cheer and it'll be safe [TS]

01:30:27   for Marco to buy one unless it still has [TS]

01:30:29   no ports so much cases still be angry [TS]

01:30:33   just just for the record I have not used [TS]

01:30:38   a touch bar MacBook Pro for more than [TS]

01:30:41   about 45 seconds in an Apple Store so [TS]

01:30:43   that could be the utter filth and [TS]

01:30:45   dumpster fire that everyone says it is I [TS]

01:30:47   don't know but I do freakin love my [TS]

01:30:51   macbook adorable are there things I [TS]

01:30:53   would change sure I would love to have [TS]

01:30:55   one more port I would love to have [TS]

01:30:58   MagSafe but in the grand scheme of [TS]

01:31:00   things I freaking love this computer [TS]

01:31:02   it's all of the good parts of the iPad [TS]

01:31:04   except without that iOS thing that holds [TS]

01:31:06   you back and so I love this computer [TS]

01:31:09   I am looking forward to one day in like [TS]

01:31:11   two years or something like that [TS]

01:31:13   eventually getting a touch bar MacBook [TS]

01:31:14   Pro at work and seeing what that's like [TS]

01:31:16   don't I love doing this you know what I [TS]

01:31:19   mean I love my iMac I am I am hopeful [TS]

01:31:24   however that especially this keyboard [TS]

01:31:27   that I think Marco you know you made a [TS]

01:31:30   really great point earlier you really me [TS]

01:31:32   I do like it I absolutely like it but I [TS]

01:31:36   also concur that it is not as reliable [TS]

01:31:37   as it should be and I had to buy it and [TS]

01:31:41   we talked about on the show I had to buy [TS]

01:31:42   a can of compressed a or it's the first [TS]

01:31:44   time I bought one in probably a decade [TS]

01:31:45   because I needed to blow out this [TS]

01:31:49   microscopic piece of dust from under the [TS]

01:31:52   keyboard such that it would operate [TS]

01:31:54   properly again and it turns out I just [TS]

01:31:56   moved it to a different key and the [TS]

01:31:58   second time I blew it out and I think [TS]

01:31:59   that actually did it but like that's [TS]

01:32:01   that's not an acceptable answer right [TS]

01:32:03   you I've never had to blow out an Apple [TS]

01:32:05   keyboard before and I just hope that [TS]

01:32:09   Apple is willing and I think they are is [TS]

01:32:12   willing to revisit this in the future [TS]

01:32:14   but I love this iMac and I love this [TS]

01:32:17   MacBook adorable and we'll see what [TS]

01:32:19   happens with my next computer whenever I [TS]

01:32:21   buy it the other thing I wish this [TS]

01:32:23   MacBook adorable had though was touch ID [TS]

01:32:26   or face ID question mark that would be [TS]

01:32:31   cool do we think that's coming before we [TS]

01:32:34   turn to the Mac show which happens [TS]

01:32:36   occasionally sorry people or Mac users I [TS]

01:32:39   mean have they seen the show art it [TS]

01:32:41   shouldn't be that much of a surprise [TS]

01:32:42   yeah [TS]

01:32:43   face idea that Mac has been in here for [TS]

01:32:45   a while and I just want to touch on this [TS]

01:32:46   especially in light of Marco [TS]

01:32:48   talking about iMac Pro versus Mac Pro I [TS]

01:32:52   forget how we know the iMac Pro is gonna [TS]

01:32:55   have a secure Enclave that Apple just [TS]

01:32:57   announced that or did people like just [TS]

01:32:58   ask the person who was in front of the [TS]

01:33:00   computer and WDC amber I think it was in [TS]

01:33:02   some firmware reference there's some efi [TS]

01:33:04   reference somewhere well anyway one of [TS]

01:33:07   the potential advantages of an all on [TS]

01:33:10   computer kind of like the advantage that [TS]

01:33:12   at Apple you know leverage to bring the [TS]

01:33:15   5k iMac at first is that you can do a [TS]

01:33:17   lot of stuff when it's everything is [TS]

01:33:18   inside the same case so a weird display [TS]

01:33:22   controller [TS]

01:33:23   with like you know the timing controller [TS]

01:33:25   and the dual internal cable you could do [TS]

01:33:28   all that and it's like it's all in one [TS]

01:33:29   box you don't have to worry about that [TS]

01:33:30   it they can give you a 5k screen in the [TS]

01:33:33   iMac before they can give it to you on [TS]

01:33:35   the Mac Pro or some other computer with [TS]

01:33:37   an external thing because they don't [TS]

01:33:38   want to have to wires connecting it an [TS]

01:33:40   elegant involved well one of the other [TS]

01:33:42   things that you can do is stuff like [TS]

01:33:45   face ID where you have you got the seer [TS]

01:33:46   Enclave and you guaranteed to have a [TS]

01:33:48   camera and you know where the camera is [TS]

01:33:49   and you know what the quality of it is [TS]

01:33:51   and you've got it pointed at the [TS]

01:33:54   person's face and you've got all the [TS]

01:33:55   sensors and the IR dot thing and so on [TS]

01:33:57   and so forth so face ID starts to take [TS]

01:34:01   off and works well I really do want to [TS]

01:34:04   see it on Macs and you know the [TS]

01:34:08   all-in-one computer is both laptops on [TS]

01:34:10   the iMac are perfect place for it to [TS]

01:34:11   appear we were talking about touch ID [TS]

01:34:13   and the touch bar on on Macs like on a [TS]

01:34:16   separate keyboard but that poses a lot [TS]

01:34:19   of problems can the touch bar work over [TS]

01:34:22   Bluetooth if the secure Enclave is [TS]

01:34:25   inside the keyboard how does that [TS]

01:34:26   communicate and similarly with face ID [TS]

01:34:28   and the IR sensor and the camera and [TS]

01:34:30   everything if Apple makes an external [TS]

01:34:31   display which they are they're making an [TS]

01:34:33   external display but they want to put [TS]

01:34:34   face ID in it they could do it but how [TS]

01:34:38   does that communicate back to the host [TS]

01:34:39   computer I guess the answer is like oh [TS]

01:34:41   there's to be Thunderbolt 3 and there [TS]

01:34:42   would be no problem but that's an [TS]

01:34:44   additional complexity that makes that [TS]

01:34:46   monitor even more complex and more [TS]

01:34:48   fraught and more like potentially flaky [TS]

01:34:51   that if everything is in the same box so [TS]

01:34:54   I don't know if the iMac pros will have [TS]

01:34:56   phase ID kind of seems like they [TS]

01:34:59   wouldn't just because I feel like the [TS]

01:35:02   timing of their production and the [TS]

01:35:04   timing of the iPhone 10 production don't [TS]

01:35:06   don't match up in a way that I would [TS]

01:35:08   expect the first iteration of the iMac [TS]

01:35:10   Pro to have them but I I fully expect [TS]

01:35:14   and I think Apple should integrate face [TS]

01:35:17   ID into all their Mac's eventually if it [TS]

01:35:20   works well much more so than touch ID [TS]

01:35:21   which has been integrated into the [TS]

01:35:23   laptops but hasn't made it to the [TS]

01:35:25   desktops and having you have you know a [TS]

01:35:27   laptop with touch ID now and it's not [TS]

01:35:29   the best implementation it's a little [TS]

01:35:31   bit slow but I would love it if I just [TS]

01:35:34   opened the lid on my laptop and it [TS]

01:35:36   unlocked [TS]

01:35:37   seeing my face because it's the perfect [TS]

01:35:38   scenario when you lift the lid on your [TS]

01:35:40   laptop chances are even better than when [TS]

01:35:42   you use a phone that you will be facing [TS]

01:35:43   it like that's how you open the lid on [TS]

01:35:45   your laptop when it's facing you right [TS]

01:35:46   it's like Here I am you open up and your [TS]

01:35:49   face comes right into view whereas your [TS]

01:35:50   phone you could like pull out of your [TS]

01:35:51   pocket or whatever might be facing the [TS]

01:35:53   weird direction much more challenging [TS]

01:35:54   there and similarly on a Mac you sit [TS]

01:35:56   down in front of your computer boy it's [TS]

01:35:58   got a great view of your face it can [TS]

01:35:59   spray those ir dots all over like it's [TS]

01:36:01   just it's right there everything's built [TS]

01:36:03   into one thing and so I really hope they [TS]

01:36:06   do bring that to Mac's I really hope [TS]

01:36:08   they kind of like skip touch ID and say [TS]

01:36:10   well we brought a touch ID to our [TS]

01:36:11   laptops and it's okay [TS]

01:36:12   but you know what let's just skip right [TS]

01:36:14   to face ID because even more so than [TS]

01:36:16   KC's beloved watch unlock face ID is the [TS]

01:36:18   ultimate I was gonna say because it's [TS]

01:36:20   super quick now super quick between the [TS]

01:36:23   do watch and in the new OS it is super [TS]

01:36:26   fast but you don't have to have your [TS]

01:36:27   watch on and you can just sit down and [TS]

01:36:29   different people can sit down and can [TS]

01:36:30   recognize who they are and switch to [TS]

01:36:31   their account like if they can do that [TS]

01:36:33   well and fast that is a better future [TS]

01:36:35   for authentication on the Mac then touch [TS]

01:36:38   ID ever could be and it solves so many [TS]

01:36:41   problems the only downside is it's more [TS]

01:36:44   difficult to do on the Mac Pro [TS]

01:36:46   supposedly there top end computer now [TS]

01:36:48   you have to figure out a way to you know [TS]

01:36:50   get those cameras again and maybe maybe [TS]

01:36:52   I'm overblowing maybe Thunder what [TS]

01:36:54   really does support solve this problem [TS]

01:36:55   entirely further maybe they have plenty [TS]

01:36:56   of bandwidth inside channels for all [TS]

01:36:58   these weird sensors and everything and [TS]

01:36:59   there's no problem with the drivers I [TS]

01:37:00   just I just worry it will be less [TS]

01:37:02   reliable than it is in the iMac where [TS]

01:37:05   they've got everything inside the same [TS]

01:37:06   case the other problem is with laptops [TS]

01:37:08   is that you have a pretty severe [TS]

01:37:09   thickness limitation on on the screen [TS]

01:37:11   lid you know the screen lid is extremely [TS]

01:37:14   thin you know they keep they can't even [TS]

01:37:16   fit a decent front-facing camera in the [TS]

01:37:18   laptops like you can get like you know a [TS]

01:37:20   $3,000 MacBook Pro that's brand new and [TS]

01:37:22   the the FaceTime camera on it is worse [TS]

01:37:25   than like the iPhone 5s is FaceTime [TS]

01:37:27   camera isn't like it's it's really [TS]

01:37:29   really bad front cameras on the Mac's [TS]

01:37:31   possibly for cost reasons cuz they just [TS]

01:37:33   don't care but most likely also because [TS]

01:37:36   of thickness reasons that those screen [TS]

01:37:37   lids are super thin and I don't know if [TS]

01:37:39   they can fit good enough sensors into [TS]

01:37:42   those screen lids on the laptops to [TS]

01:37:44   actually achieve face ID anytime soon I [TS]

01:37:46   think that a camera is probably good [TS]

01:37:48   enough already just I don't know how [TS]

01:37:49   thick [TS]

01:37:50   I are sprayer depth thing there as soon [TS]

01:37:52   as we get the I fix that tear down to [TS]

01:37:53   the phone like is they using all that [TS]

01:37:55   thickness for the additional sensors or [TS]

01:37:57   actually those sensors super thin and [TS]

01:37:59   it's no problem okay I feel like I can [TS]

01:38:01   fit it there's not as much room as there [TS]

01:38:04   is on a phone but you know like you can [TS]

01:38:08   always make it a millimeter to thicker I [TS]

01:38:10   wouldn't say that they should go with [TS]

01:38:11   the Bulge but maybe not the first [TS]

01:38:14   generation but down the line those [TS]

01:38:17   sensors there's nothing inherent about [TS]

01:38:18   the sensors like optically speaking that [TS]

01:38:20   makes me think they can't have it and I [TS]

01:38:21   think the camera is plenty good enough [TS]

01:38:23   already it's just the the auxilary [TS]

01:38:26   sensors the multiple cameras or the IR [TS]

01:38:28   thing that I don't think they're but [TS]

01:38:30   anyway no problem on the iMac plenty of [TS]

01:38:32   room there and so that should be the [TS]

01:38:33   first the first place it appears is on [TS]

01:38:36   there you know big desktops because [TS]

01:38:38   you've got more room more power and [TS]

01:38:40   that's what they should do yeah I have [TS]

01:38:43   this like you know slight fantasy that [TS]

01:38:45   like maybe the iMac Pro does have face [TS]

01:38:47   ID and that's why it's not out yet they [TS]

01:38:49   were holding it back until the iPhone [TS]

01:38:51   unveil with its face ID but I think in [TS]

01:38:53   reality that's very unlikely it doesn't [TS]

01:38:56   seem to work out because you know [TS]

01:38:57   everything having to do with face ID is [TS]

01:38:59   coming first on the 10 and that is [TS]

01:39:00   everything with the companies focused on [TS]

01:39:02   imacro it started so long ago like it [TS]

01:39:05   seems like their flagship phone is going [TS]

01:39:07   to blaze the path for this and then like [TS]

01:39:09   it just doesn't it just doesn't work out [TS]

01:39:11   timing wise I feel like even the second [TS]

01:39:14   generation iMac Pro that maybe in the [TS]

01:39:16   planning stages even that one might not [TS]

01:39:18   have face I did incorporate it but you [TS]

01:39:19   know I would love to be too surprised [TS]

01:39:20   surprised too I mean it's not like any [TS]

01:39:22   of us scrutinized the forehead of the [TS]

01:39:25   macro model and that thing to look for [TS]

01:39:28   tiny little impossible to see slightly [TS]

01:39:31   differently colored black areas in the [TS]

01:39:32   forehead to see if we could see an IR [TS]

01:39:34   sensor yeah I think it's way more likely [TS]

01:39:37   that face ID does come to the Mac but [TS]

01:39:38   that's you know in like three years [TS]

01:39:40   you know not probably not soon well I [TS]

01:39:42   don't want to wait that long I think [TS]

01:39:43   next year I want to see it an iMac maybe [TS]

01:39:46   that can be in the Indy Pro display like [TS]

01:39:48   you know we we have speculated on the [TS]

01:39:50   showed like you know they mentioned into [TS]

01:39:51   that in the Mac Pro briefing last spring [TS]

01:39:53   that you know they're working on a Mac [TS]

01:39:54   Pro and also a new Pro display we know [TS]

01:39:58   nothing about that display except that [TS]

01:40:00   they said it's going to exist so we [TS]

01:40:03   don't know like [TS]

01:40:04   what size it is it could be 8k we don't [TS]

01:40:06   know like we we have no idea what size [TS]

01:40:08   it is what resolution it is what [TS]

01:40:09   features will it have when will it come [TS]

01:40:11   out what will it cost like we have no [TS]

01:40:13   idea one of the obvious questions is [TS]

01:40:16   what would make someone buy the Apple [TS]

01:40:19   pro display instead of the LG you know [TS]

01:40:22   mediocrity box and face ID could be a [TS]

01:40:25   great answer because like you know you [TS]

01:40:27   know it's gonna cost more because it's [TS]

01:40:28   gonna be an Apple display so like if [TS]

01:40:30   Apple's gonna sell it you know if LG's [TS]

01:40:31   still selling there is you know soon as [TS]

01:40:33   thinking that next summer let's see the [TS]

01:40:35   LG 5k display next summer as a thousand [TS]

01:40:36   bucks I think at best it's gonna be [TS]

01:40:38   maybe 900 but it's robably gonna be [TS]

01:40:40   about a thousand bucks next summer Apple [TS]

01:40:42   comes out it lets say their displays 5k [TS]

01:40:43   it's probably gonna be at least fifteen [TS]

01:40:45   hundred bucks [TS]

01:40:46   so what what can they do to help justify [TS]

01:40:49   that cost you know if LG's is gonna be a [TS]

01:40:51   thousand now Apple's not gonna be a [TS]

01:40:52   thousand so one of the ways they can one [TS]

01:40:55   of the things they could do that no one [TS]

01:40:56   else can do is face ID they can build [TS]

01:40:58   that in like that would be an incredible [TS]

01:41:00   selling point that would make pretty [TS]

01:41:02   much everyone at at the high-end choose [TS]

01:41:04   that display over some other thing from [TS]

01:41:07   somebody else so that's the one they can [TS]

01:41:09   do it we don't know until like you know [TS]

01:41:11   something like until we get actual [TS]

01:41:13   information and hopefully actual product [TS]

01:41:15   releases from the Mac Pro and this pro [TS]

01:41:18   display there are so many unanswered [TS]

01:41:20   questions that make it very hard to [TS]

01:41:22   contextualize the iMac Pro and to decide [TS]

01:41:25   whether to buy the iMac Pro or the other [TS]

01:41:27   things so you said you'll be buying 13 [TS]

01:41:31   iMac pros well thanks to our sponsors [TS]

01:41:33   this week betterment hover and away and [TS]

01:41:36   we will see you next week [TS]

01:41:38   [Music] [TS]

01:41:47   I'm pressing the spacebar [TS]

01:41:50   [Applause] [TS]

01:41:54   this computer is about a year old and it [TS]

01:41:58   was very expensive [TS]

01:42:01   I have been waiting to upgrade for a [TS]

01:42:03   long time [TS]

01:42:07   well you're telling me very witty [TS]

01:42:10   distances [TS]

01:42:12   surgery for a speck of dust largely the [TS]

01:42:16   butterfly I found your instructions they [TS]

01:42:21   were not helpful [TS]

01:42:23   I bought this can of air I feel like an [TS]

01:42:28   idiot [TS]

01:42:29   coz I'm pressing the spacebar [TS]

01:42:32   I'm Priscilla's baseball I am guys in [TS]

01:42:36   the space bar I'm pressing the space bar [TS]

01:42:41   [Applause] [TS]

01:42:46   [Music] [TS]

01:42:53   Facebook and [TS]

01:42:55   is happening [TS]

01:42:57   get me out of here [TS]

01:43:00   [Music] [TS]

01:43:01   so tell us what your little experiment [TS]

01:43:04   was last week with the show not with you [TS]

01:43:07   yeah this didn't go so well so um [TS]

01:43:10   longtime listeners will remember that I [TS]

01:43:13   base I had a bee in my bonnet this case [TS]

01:43:17   you would probably say about I I was [TS]

01:43:22   upset that Apple's mp3 decoding library [TS]

01:43:24   did not properly seek VBR mp3s and that [TS]

01:43:28   podcast could be way better if they [TS]

01:43:31   could be VBR mp3s because variable [TS]

01:43:33   bitrate means that you can for instance [TS]

01:43:36   the silences between all of our words [TS]

01:43:38   that overcast is hopefully shortening [TS]

01:43:40   for you for you know 70% of you these [TS]

01:43:43   silences between all of our words can [TS]

01:43:45   use very few bits because there isn't [TS]

01:43:46   much information there the words can use [TS]

01:43:48   a decent amount of bits but not a [TS]

01:43:50   massive amount cuz they don't need that [TS]

01:43:51   much and then the theme song the place [TS]

01:43:53   between the after show and the regular [TS]

01:43:54   show can use like music bit rates and [TS]

01:43:57   all of that could be done a total file [TS]

01:43:59   size of not that much compared to a [TS]

01:44:02   constant bitrate mediocre quality file [TS]

01:44:04   just because different parts of the file [TS]

01:44:06   need different things and some of them [TS]

01:44:07   need more and some need less so it makes [TS]

01:44:09   sense to encode with a variable bitrate [TS]

01:44:11   but the problem is if things that don't [TS]

01:44:14   properly support variable bitrate [TS]

01:44:16   they they basically read the file as if [TS]

01:44:20   it's either the average bitrate of like [TS]

01:44:23   the file size divided by the duration or [TS]

01:44:26   they or they read the very first mp3 [TS]

01:44:29   frames with the first few milliseconds [TS]

01:44:31   of the file and they assume that the [TS]

01:44:33   whole file is whatever bitrate that [TS]

01:44:35   first frame is and so this causes a [TS]

01:44:38   couple of problems oh and also the waste [TS]

01:44:41   the way some of them would calculate [TS]

01:44:42   duration is they would read that first [TS]

01:44:46   frame see what the bitrate is look at [TS]

01:44:49   the file size and just divide it and say [TS]

01:44:51   alright well if the first frame is you [TS]

01:44:53   know 32 kilobits and this is a hundred [TS]

01:44:55   mega file and this is gonna be like what [TS]

01:44:57   would that be like a five hour long file [TS]

01:45:00   isn't like that the mp3 standard is very [TS]

01:45:03   old it doesn't provide a lot of a lot of [TS]

01:45:06   niceties in this regard so you know that [TS]

01:45:09   there's been some bad implementations [TS]

01:45:10   over the years however VBR encoding has [TS]

01:45:13   been around [TS]

01:45:13   since literally the late 90s so this is [TS]

01:45:16   not a new thing to do and it's extremely [TS]

01:45:20   common for music files to BVB are [TS]

01:45:22   encoded because it's it's a way to [TS]

01:45:24   achieve very good quality without [TS]

01:45:25   obscene file sizes so this has been [TS]

01:45:28   around for literally 20 years [TS]

01:45:30   not everything supports it properly the [TS]

01:45:32   main problem that you see when it's not [TS]

01:45:34   supported properly is either the [TS]

01:45:36   duration is misreported because of what [TS]

01:45:37   I said earlier or seeking doesn't work [TS]

01:45:40   properly in the sense that you seek to a [TS]

01:45:43   timestamp and as far as the player is [TS]

01:45:45   concerned it is playing at that time [TS]

01:45:46   stamp but the content that you are [TS]

01:45:47   hearing is not the content that's [TS]

01:45:50   actually at the times of your hearing [TS]

01:45:51   the wrong thing for the time if you seek [TS]

01:45:53   because the dumb way to seek is if you [TS]

01:45:56   know the file size and the duration you [TS]

01:45:59   can say alright well if the user seek to [TS]

01:46:01   the 50% point in time in the duration [TS]

01:46:05   seek to the 50% byte in the file and [TS]

01:46:08   then just start playing from there with [TS]

01:46:11   a VBR file though you don't actually [TS]

01:46:13   know that the 50% of the bytes through [TS]

01:46:16   matches up to 50% of the time through [TS]

01:46:19   because the distribution of different [TS]

01:46:21   bit rates could be different at [TS]

01:46:22   different parts of the podcast so when [TS]

01:46:25   something does is if we're doesn't [TS]

01:46:26   support PVR properly you have that issue [TS]

01:46:28   we're seeking to a timestamp does not [TS]

01:46:31   actually play the correct timestamp well [TS]

01:46:33   we started getting a lot of reports from [TS]

01:46:35   people on Android mostly this past this [TS]

01:46:38   past week when I released the show [TS]

01:46:40   saying hey your chapter markers are all [TS]

01:46:43   messed up and seek to the wrong [TS]

01:46:44   timestamps in you know insert name of [TS]

01:46:46   android podcast player it wasn't too [TS]

01:46:49   long before somebody I think John [TS]

01:46:51   probably asked did you by any chance [TS]

01:46:54   encode the show and VBR [TS]

01:46:56   this week and the answer was yes I I did [TS]

01:47:01   I so Apple added VBR seeking support [TS]

01:47:03   finally in in iOS 11 and our High Sierra [TS]

01:47:07   and now that iOS 11 and has over 50% [TS]

01:47:10   market share and nobody listened to the [TS]

01:47:13   podcast in the Mac sorry Casey [TS]

01:47:14   so I figured this would be a safe time [TS]

01:47:17   for me to try VBR to just see like how [TS]

01:47:20   many problems you know are we gonna hear [TS]

01:47:22   from anybody whose problems there was no [TS]

01:47:23   one gonna really notice or care because [TS]

01:47:25   most of our listeners are on iOS [TS]

01:47:27   I bet a vast majority of them upgrade to [TS]

01:47:29   the new OS fairly soon and since the [TS]

01:47:32   global share of iOS 11 was over over 50% [TS]

01:47:34   I figured you know that's that's pretty [TS]

01:47:35   good and I knew it worked fine on an [TS]

01:47:37   overcast and or any other iOS app that [TS]

01:47:39   used the built-in iOS libraries I [TS]

01:47:41   figured Android as nerdy surely they [TS]

01:47:44   figured out a 20 year old mp3 standard [TS]

01:47:46   by now turns out that was wrong it turns [TS]

01:47:48   out that III don't know the the great [TS]

01:47:52   details on how mp3 decoding is done in [TS]

01:47:55   android how many different libraries [TS]

01:47:57   there are to do it what versions are out [TS]

01:47:58   there because I don't know any about [TS]

01:47:59   Android but suffice to say most of [TS]

01:48:02   Android or all of Android in practice [TS]

01:48:04   does not support VBR seeking of mp3s and [TS]

01:48:06   therefore or at least the libraries that [TS]

01:48:08   podcast makers use I honestly again I [TS]

01:48:10   don't know the details of all this short [TS]

01:48:12   version is they aren't supported so all [TS]

01:48:15   of our Android listeners started [TS]

01:48:16   bothering us and the app makers who make [TS]

01:48:18   Android podcast apps some books are very [TS]

01:48:20   mad at me right now it was causing [TS]

01:48:21   enough problems that I was convinced to [TS]

01:48:25   put a CBR file back a big constant [TS]

01:48:28   bitrate file backup and that this was [TS]

01:48:29   not a good test after all the failure [TS]

01:48:31   rate was simply too high so about a day [TS]

01:48:35   after release I switched the file out [TS]

01:48:37   for a regular bit rate lower quality [TS]

01:48:40   larger file it turns out this was a [TS]

01:48:43   failed experiment for VBR last week I [TS]

01:48:46   don't know when I will try it again I [TS]

01:48:48   think what this has shown me is that [TS]

01:48:51   basically androids not ready you know [TS]

01:48:53   iOS just got ready Android is not ready [TS]

01:48:55   and because of the nature of Android [TS]

01:48:58   it's probably gonna be a long time [TS]

01:49:00   before before podcast makers can safely [TS]

01:49:02   ship VBR files without causing problem [TS]

01:49:04   for people so I'm guessing I'm probably [TS]

01:49:08   not gonna do VBR again for a very long [TS]

01:49:11   time possibly if ever because the other [TS]

01:49:14   thing is if I can for instance serve [TS]

01:49:17   different files to different clients [TS]

01:49:19   like right now there's not a lot of [TS]

01:49:21   infrastructure in place for that it [TS]

01:49:22   things like our hosting and our website [TS]

01:49:24   and things like that but you know if if [TS]

01:49:26   I were to go through the complexity [TS]

01:49:28   rabbit hole of adding something like [TS]

01:49:29   that where I could serve different files [TS]

01:49:30   to different clients then I probably [TS]

01:49:33   should stop using mp3 altogether for [TS]

01:49:35   like the good one and I should start [TS]

01:49:37   making like an opus file because opus is [TS]

01:49:39   a way better codec [TS]

01:49:40   than mp3 and I could get awesome quality [TS]

01:49:44   with VBR naturally in something like a [TS]

01:49:47   third of the file size so I don't know [TS]

01:49:50   if I'm ever going to actually be able to [TS]

01:49:52   practically use VBR mp3s as a podcast [TS]

01:49:55   again but at least now that Apple [TS]

01:49:58   supports it in their libraries which [TS]

01:50:00   means now that every iOS app will now [TS]

01:50:02   support it and at least there's a chance [TS]

01:50:04   and I hope I can do it in the future but [TS]

01:50:05   it's probably gonna be a long way off if [TS]

01:50:06   ever you should serve up the show as a [TS]

01:50:10   HEV C video but with no video if I has [TS]

01:50:16   all the features that you want from its [TS]

01:50:17   audio stream is variable bitrate and [TS]

01:50:19   chapter markers most often it may be it [TS]

01:50:22   may turn out to be playable on more [TS]

01:50:24   platforms sooner than variable bitrate [TS]

01:50:27   and easier because it's not like VBR mp3 [TS]

01:50:30   is the new standard we're waiting for [TS]

01:50:31   people to catch up as you noted is 20 [TS]

01:50:32   years old so if they haven't done an [TS]

01:50:34   a-lister motivation where as all of the [TS]

01:50:36   HEV C and all those new containers is a [TS]

01:50:38   new format and I think most platforms [TS]

01:50:40   will adopt that so people can watch 4k [TS]

01:50:42   video or whatever on it although there's [TS]

01:50:44   what is the competing one was the Google [TS]

01:50:46   one that they like said vp9 via one of [TS]

01:50:49   the VP's yeah well anyway you still [TS]

01:50:52   probably serve two different frostings [TS]

01:50:53   anyway next time just you know do the [TS]

01:50:55   experiment and top four is all I'm [TS]

01:50:57   saying I can't hear about pumpkin spice [TS]

01:51:01   food I'm so angry they'll get over it [TS]

01:51:04   they'll be fine Wow important is hearing [TS]

01:51:09   us complain for the umpteenth time about [TS]

01:51:11   the MacBook Pro keyboard in the Mac Pro [TS]

01:51:13   I mean that's a good priority straight [TS]

01:51:15   although I have to say seeing the [TS]

01:51:17   picture of all that food that you bought [TS]

01:51:19   like I try not to do the math like I [TS]

01:51:21   feel like you were running the show at a [TS]

01:51:23   loss based on how many hundreds of [TS]

01:51:24   dollars worth of crap food you buy fresh [TS]

01:51:26   episode and then you know give away or [TS]

01:51:29   throw away it's just doesn't seem to [TS]

01:51:30   make economic sense and he's giving you [TS]

01:51:32   tummy aches yeah fortunately pumpkin [TS]

01:51:35   spiced garbage food from discount retail [TS]

01:51:37   stores is not very expensive but yeah [TS]

01:51:40   that definitely was pros a lot of food [TS]

01:51:42   yeah well it's big boxes I mean you know [TS]

01:51:45   it's like it's crap food there's not a [TS]

01:51:46   lot of in there it's not did you try it [TS]

01:51:47   all other than the ones that you were [TS]

01:51:49   too afraid to like did you actually open [TS]

01:51:51   every box in consider because oh yes yet [TS]

01:51:54   like there were a few that we cut from [TS]

01:51:55   this show like the like there was a [TS]

01:51:56   backup popcorn like there were a few [TS]

01:51:58   that we cut just because like it wasn't [TS]

01:52:00   interesting I'm like we I mean we [TS]

01:52:02   recorded something like an hour and 45 [TS]

01:52:04   minutes and we ran out of time like the [TS]

01:52:10   first session we had to fit in the [TS]

01:52:11   school day because we didn't do during [TS]

01:52:13   the day and like it was time to go pick [TS]

01:52:14   up at him at the bus we had to stop like [TS]

01:52:17   it was like it we had way too much fun [TS]

01:52:20   so yeah that was there was a lot of [TS]

01:52:24   editing there we'll put a link in the [TS]

01:52:25   show notes this is one of Markos other [TS]

01:52:27   podcasts and it's very different from [TS]

01:52:29   ATP and it's a lot of fun and if you're [TS]

01:52:32   interested in it you'll be able to link [TS]

01:52:33   to it this is in this episode they [TS]

01:52:35   tasted a bunch of pumpkin spice food I [TS]

01:52:38   don't know why it's what they do and [TS]

01:52:40   then the permit the premises of the show [TS]

01:52:42   is that they rank them but it's a farce [TS]

01:52:45   so anyway check out the show number two [TS]

01:52:50   I have 45 honorable mentions just once [TS]

01:52:56   they get into the for that they can't [TS]

01:52:57   actually pick for Margot Margot had a [TS]

01:52:59   new twist this time because it was like [TS]

01:53:01   this would be my number two except it's [TS]

01:53:04   not my number two because I'm weird [TS]

01:53:05   about things so he had an alternate [TS]

01:53:08   number two and three after he'd gotten [TS]

01:53:11   up to his number one and he'd done the [TS]

01:53:12   other ones and he's saying this would [TS]

01:53:14   actually be my number two but and there [TS]

01:53:16   was some kind of explanation that made [TS]

01:53:17   sense in his mind but it didn't actually [TS]

01:53:18   make any sense of as to why his number [TS]

01:53:20   two was not even in the top four yeah [TS]

01:53:22   that's really mind-boggling it made [TS]

01:53:24   sense in my head he had already had lots [TS]

01:53:27   of pumpkin beer at that point so we [TS]

01:53:28   don't really know not know I not [TS]

01:53:29   honestly I had like three sips of [TS]

01:53:31   pumpkin beer because one of them I [TS]

01:53:33   didn't like very much the other one I [TS]

01:53:35   didn't have time to drink so it was I [TS]

01:53:37   was I was high on pumpkin spice donuts [TS]

01:53:40   and cream cheese and all sorts of weird [TS]

01:53:42   sky like the pumpkin spice donut holes [TS]

01:53:45   it barely had any flavor it's like you [TS]

01:53:47   were munching on those anyways like you [TS]

01:53:49   know what Donuts not they're not pumpkin [TS]

01:53:53   spicy they don't even make marble [TS]

01:53:54   mansions but doughnuts you can have [TS]

01:53:57   doughnut holes in pretty much any flavor [TS]

01:54:00   and they're gonna be amazing and you're [TS]

01:54:01   gonna want more of them they're so small [TS]

01:54:04   yes but barely barely count they feel [TS]

01:54:06   free [TS]

01:54:08   so we're missing on this show we don't [TS]

01:54:10   get snacks the hell I know right [TS]

01:54:12   you got toasters for a while yeah but I [TS]

01:54:14   had to supply my own food and it was [TS]

01:54:16   like toast I didn't have any pumpkin [TS]

01:54:20   butter to put on it [TS]