The Accidental Tech Podcast

250: We're Doing a Show


00:00:00   so John I'm curious do you realize how [TS]

00:00:02   much of a Boston accent you have I do [TS]

00:00:05   not have a Boston accent you don't even [TS]

00:00:06   know what a Boston accent is even watch [TS]

00:00:08   too many too many of the the stupids of [TS]

00:00:10   what's-his-name Matt Damon's friend Ben [TS]

00:00:13   Affleck yeah I know what a Boston accent [TS]

00:00:15   is and I know you don't have a standard [TS]

00:00:17   one but you do have some of one and I [TS]

00:00:20   don't think I don't think you know this [TS]

00:00:22   I don't I know during this podcast I [TS]

00:00:24   misspoke and said some word that sounded [TS]

00:00:26   like it has a Boston accent because I [TS]

00:00:28   like bailed in the middle of a word and [TS]

00:00:29   changed to a different thing and it [TS]

00:00:31   ended up coming out I recognized that I [TS]

00:00:32   did that in this episode yeah that was [TS]

00:00:34   not me doing a Boston accent that was me [TS]

00:00:36   totally miss speaking and like trying to [TS]

00:00:38   rope it back in the middle of a word in [TS]

00:00:40   this weird sound coming out do not say [TS]

00:00:42   that word that way I heard myself do it [TS]

00:00:44   too but no I have a New York accent for [TS]

00:00:46   as far as I have any accent it's why [TS]

00:00:48   people complain about I say Mario that's [TS]

00:00:50   not a Boston thing [TS]

00:00:51   look you live there you can't you can't [TS]

00:00:54   deny that it's going to have an effect [TS]

00:00:56   on you oh it doesn't I'm not one of [TS]

00:00:57   those people I'm not one of those people [TS]

00:00:59   who picks up the accents from my [TS]

00:01:00   surrounding all my kids speak [TS]

00:01:01   differently than me you know you don't [TS]

00:01:03   pick it up like a hundred percent but [TS]

00:01:05   like you definitely have some slight [TS]

00:01:08   boston influence in your speak I don't [TS]

00:01:11   think I do at all zero so wrong zero [TS]

00:01:14   amount like some sort of weird access [TS]

00:01:20   issue of the past two days trying to get [TS]

00:01:21   to daring fireball like it's not a DNS [TS]

00:01:23   thing because I think it's going past [TS]

00:01:25   the DNS stage but it's just taking [TS]

00:01:27   forever to load like I started to load a [TS]

00:01:30   page before I picked up your call it's [TS]

00:01:32   still loading the the progress bar [TS]

00:01:33   throws a white screen in Safari is it [TS]

00:01:36   possible that's because your computer is [TS]

00:01:37   slower than like my phone from last year [TS]

00:01:39   that's not that hey I can't love a [TS]

00:01:43   demanding site there in firewall with [TS]

00:01:45   all its widgets and geegaws it's a word [TS]

00:01:54   that I'm very sure geg aw I think it was [TS]

00:02:00   officially removed from the dictionary [TS]

00:02:02   30 years ago a showy thing especially [TS]

00:02:05   one that is useless or worthless and [TS]

00:02:08   also it's usually GE WG aw googa googa [TS]

00:02:12   thought I said [TS]

00:02:13   I think he said giggle oh you're right I [TS]

00:02:15   did all right well then maybe giggle [TS]

00:02:17   isn't a word no is it an alternate [TS]

00:02:20   spelling yeah I think so cuz I looked up [TS]

00:02:23   geegaw and ended up with goo gah [TS]

00:02:25   yeah oh no I well I guess it's just an [TS]

00:02:28   autocorrect thing because it's usually [TS]

00:02:29   goo God's apparently digitally plural [TS]

00:02:32   wow this is already taking a turn for [TS]

00:02:34   the unexpected it's important to get the [TS]

00:02:35   leap is right merriam-webster has it [TS]

00:02:38   it's a less common variant of Google I [TS]

00:02:40   don't wanna do this first I'm gonna [TS]

00:02:41   follow up because I really don't wanna [TS]

00:02:42   hear any more whining about the new [TS]

00:02:43   MacBook Pros gentlemen it'll be quick [TS]

00:02:45   it's a quickie [TS]

00:02:46   it's quickie okay it's yeah I'm sure [TS]

00:02:49   that once you bring up a complaint about [TS]

00:02:50   the MacBook Pro it's totally going to be [TS]

00:02:52   a 30-second endeavour ball I I wanted to [TS]

00:02:55   put the dues quick in there I guarantee [TS]

00:02:59   that it won't be great I'm already [TS]

00:03:02   punchy you having a holiday party no I'm [TS]

00:03:05   not be that's the problem especially [TS]

00:03:07   given this first item the follow-up I [TS]

00:03:09   need a holiday party until the laptops [TS]

00:03:12   are fixed we're gonna keep talking about [TS]

00:03:13   them hey you know what they're not all [TS]

00:03:14   they're not all bad anyway the 60% of [TS]

00:03:19   them don't have keyboard failures [TS]

00:03:20   apparently are fine yeah but they were [TS]

00:03:22   all bad I don't know that reference John [TS]

00:03:25   don't care I'm already punchy so let's [TS]

00:03:26   just get it out of the way we're [TS]

00:03:27   starting with follow up ladies and [TS]

00:03:28   gentlemen and apparently John said his [TS]

00:03:31   complaint about a 2016 or 17 MacBook Pro [TS]

00:03:33   will be and I'm quoting very quick I [TS]

00:03:36   guarantee it [TS]

00:03:38   so look at the timer look at the elapsed [TS]

00:03:40   time let's go buckle up kids what's [TS]

00:03:43   going on John I've got one of these at [TS]

00:03:45   work remember so I use it every day so I [TS]

00:03:46   have in case you have complaints anyway [TS]

00:03:48   I noticed this today I very rarely do [TS]

00:03:51   anything with my laptop or work except [TS]

00:03:52   keep it closed and plug it in to other [TS]

00:03:54   devices but I was in a lot of meetings [TS]

00:03:56   today and I had two laptop open and the [TS]

00:03:58   lighting was just right and it occurred [TS]

00:04:00   to me that still in 2017 Apple's making [TS]

00:04:04   keyboards where the keys touch the [TS]

00:04:05   screen when you close it and that's been [TS]

00:04:07   true for years and years and years and [TS]

00:04:09   years has it ever not been true is Apple [TS]

00:04:11   ever made a keyboard where the keys [TS]

00:04:13   don't touch the screen well guess what [TS]

00:04:14   finger greases on the keys and now [TS]

00:04:16   finger grease is on my keyboard in the [TS]

00:04:17   shape on my screen in the shape of my [TS]

00:04:19   keyboard in the long list of things that [TS]

00:04:22   we want Apple to correct I believe that [TS]

00:04:24   it is possible for Apple to make a [TS]

00:04:26   computer [TS]

00:04:27   laptop computer when you close it the [TS]

00:04:29   grease from your fingers on the keys [TS]

00:04:30   does not come off onto the screen and [TS]

00:04:31   you don't get a greasy outline of all [TS]

00:04:33   the keys in the keyboard and screen I [TS]

00:04:35   believe that's possible we have very low [TS]

00:04:36   profile keys they're all about thinness [TS]

00:04:38   that's it [TS]

00:04:40   well I think they did I don't I don't [TS]

00:04:43   know if they still do on my original [TS]

00:04:45   PowerBook g4 the aluminum PowerBook g4 [TS]

00:04:47   that was my first Mac that like I I had [TS]

00:04:50   heard about this problem about like [TS]

00:04:52   because and back then like when you had [TS]

00:04:53   the matte screen it was a lot easier for [TS]

00:04:56   a permanent imprint to develop because [TS]

00:04:58   you couldn't really wipe off that that [TS]

00:05:00   the screen coating very very much like [TS]

00:05:02   to clean it and I had heard about this [TS]

00:05:03   and so I decided as a policy that I [TS]

00:05:06   would carry the laptop in the backpack [TS]

00:05:08   such that the screen lid was not facing [TS]

00:05:11   my back it was facing the other way [TS]

00:05:13   carrying it this way every day to and [TS]

00:05:15   from work and everything I never had [TS]

00:05:17   that problem my that that computer never [TS]

00:05:20   developed the imprint of the keyboard on [TS]

00:05:22   the screen and my theory was that in a [TS]

00:05:25   perfect layout of the laptop back on a [TS]

00:05:27   desk the screen and keyboard don't [TS]

00:05:28   actually touch but if there's any flex [TS]

00:05:31   that's squeezing the laptop a little bit [TS]

00:05:33   from from the sides like in a bag any [TS]

00:05:36   flex is enough to push the screen [TS]

00:05:38   against the keyboard inside there [TS]

00:05:40   because it's such a tiny little gap and [TS]

00:05:42   I imagine over time that gap has only [TS]

00:05:43   gotten smaller so it's possible that in [TS]

00:05:47   while sitting on a desk it doesn't press [TS]

00:05:48   against it but that if you have it in a [TS]

00:05:51   bag or in a certain kind of stand that [TS]

00:05:52   stands it upright like anything that [TS]

00:05:54   would possibly apply pressure to the [TS]

00:05:56   outside of it like books next to in a [TS]

00:05:58   bag that might compress it just enough [TS]

00:06:01   to make that contact happen yeah I'm [TS]

00:06:03   sure that's what's happening but I'm [TS]

00:06:04   saying you know we got the butterfly [TS]

00:06:05   keyboard how many years ago Casey we can [TS]

00:06:07   make a keyboard that like collapses into [TS]

00:06:09   the case and gets out of flex distance I [TS]

00:06:11   don't know I'm just saying it's it's an [TS]

00:06:12   area of potential improvement not just [TS]

00:06:14   for this laptop but you know we do have [TS]

00:06:17   very low profile keys I figured like [TS]

00:06:18   you'd use that gap should be getting [TS]

00:06:20   bigger and not smaller because nobody [TS]

00:06:21   likes greasy keys on that screen no no [TS]

00:06:23   you're asking them to make even lower [TS]

00:06:25   profile keys please for the love of God [TS]

00:06:27   do not solve this problem in this way [TS]

00:06:29   the whole be just move the whole [TS]

00:06:30   keyboard down you can make high keys but [TS]

00:06:32   then have them sink into the keyboard [TS]

00:06:33   magically I don't know no one's use [TS]

00:06:35   laptops they're bad [TS]

00:06:37   not bad oh my god the butterfly keyboard [TS]

00:06:40   was 1995 I'll put links in the show [TS]

00:06:42   notes I actually noticed it was either [TS]

00:06:45   today or yesterday that are my beloved [TS]

00:06:47   MacBook adorable which I wouldn't change [TS]

00:06:49   in any way don't tell them anyway I [TS]

00:06:53   noticed that I noticed that on that that [TS]

00:06:55   machine I generally hold it I don't know [TS]

00:06:58   by maybe the hinge or I don't even [TS]

00:06:59   remember and it's not sitting next to me [TS]

00:07:01   so I can't like demonstrate to myself [TS]

00:07:03   but I was holding it in such a way that [TS]

00:07:05   I felt like it was giving a little bit [TS]

00:07:07   and I think I was putting a little bit [TS]

00:07:08   of pressure toward the center of the [TS]

00:07:09   screen which is not something I normally [TS]

00:07:11   do I don't like to mess with the LCD but [TS]

00:07:14   it just so happened that I gripped it in [TS]

00:07:16   such a way that I noticed that this the [TS]

00:07:19   the if I put pressure on the center of [TS]

00:07:22   the LCD but roughly where the Apple logo [TS]

00:07:24   is while it's closed I can feel it like [TS]

00:07:28   give enough to come into contact with [TS]

00:07:30   the bottom part of the case [TS]

00:07:31   so it's just like you're describing John [TS]

00:07:33   where the clearly the screen is now [TS]

00:07:35   impacting the keys and I don't recall [TS]

00:07:37   ever having a laptop that did that and [TS]

00:07:39   I'm probably wrong and I bet all of them [TS]

00:07:41   do it but it was a very uncomfortable [TS]

00:07:42   very unnerving feeling that I did not [TS]

00:07:45   like and that that happened to me in the [TS]

00:07:47   last 24 hours [TS]

00:07:48   I will also note to go back a step to [TS]

00:07:50   Marco strategies to avoid keyboard [TS]

00:07:54   grease I knew for a long time several [TS]

00:07:58   super nerds that used to keep I don't [TS]

00:08:01   even think they still come in them in [TS]

00:08:03   the Mac books or MacBook Pros anymore [TS]

00:08:04   but it used to be when you got an Apple [TS]

00:08:06   laptop you know where this is going [TS]

00:08:07   right so they used to have this sheet of [TS]

00:08:10   like not foam but like some sort of foam [TS]

00:08:13   like material that would be between the [TS]

00:08:15   display and the keyboard and I knew a [TS]

00:08:16   lot of people that would carry that with [TS]

00:08:18   them and then put it in their device [TS]

00:08:21   before they close the lid in order to [TS]

00:08:23   prevent any sort of scraping against the [TS]

00:08:25   screen and I always thought that was [TS]

00:08:27   crazy until one day I noticed an outline [TS]

00:08:29   if a keyboard on my screen and thought [TS]

00:08:30   well okay that's a little bit weird but [TS]

00:08:32   maybe not so crazy after all no and [TS]

00:08:34   people still do that and they were even [TS]

00:08:36   there were a third party like cloths [TS]

00:08:37   that would fit it perfectly also that [TS]

00:08:39   people would do that that's that was a [TS]

00:08:40   pretty widespread thing for a while and [TS]

00:08:42   I think it is still done by about the [TS]

00:08:45   same number of people that that ever did [TS]

00:08:46   it but to me that always felt to fit [TS]

00:08:50   it's like John having [TS]

00:08:51   phone in a pouch that has DSi take it [TS]

00:08:54   out of this pouch before he uses it like [TS]

00:08:55   that's like a step too far for me and [TS]

00:08:57   with the laptop that's like you know [TS]

00:08:58   that'd having like a piece of cloth that [TS]

00:09:01   I stick between the laptop keyboard and [TS]

00:09:03   lid when I close it and have to open it [TS]

00:09:05   up and take it off every time like that [TS]

00:09:07   that's like too fiddly for me like I [TS]

00:09:09   would rather have the imprint of the [TS]

00:09:10   keyboard that has to do that every [TS]

00:09:12   single time all I hear is that you're [TS]

00:09:13   too jealous of my incredibly clean phone [TS]

00:09:15   but this brings actual solution to this [TS]

00:09:18   problem and the grand tradition of [TS]

00:09:20   steganography [TS]

00:09:21   if they just made their screens touch [TS]

00:09:24   screens then the giant amount of finger [TS]

00:09:26   grease randomly placed all over the [TS]

00:09:28   screen would mask the shape of the [TS]

00:09:30   keyboard which would still be there [TS]

00:09:31   hidden in the information but you [TS]

00:09:32   wouldn't be able to see it especially if [TS]

00:09:34   they coated it with whatever's coding [TS]

00:09:36   the 10.5 inch iPad pro screen which is [TS]

00:09:38   so like this is the most fingerprinting [TS]

00:09:41   iOS device I think I've ever had I heard [TS]

00:09:43   they had to change the coding for the [TS]

00:09:45   Apple pencil like to make that work well [TS]

00:09:47   and not wear it weirdly but whatever [TS]

00:09:49   whatever is different the 9.7 didn't see [TS]

00:09:52   in this bad [TS]

00:09:52   the 10.5 iPad pro is it just is a [TS]

00:09:56   constant wall of fingerprints it is [TS]

00:09:58   hideous I wish I knew any way to prevent [TS]

00:10:01   that besides using gloves or using one [TS]

00:10:03   of John's pouches stop touching your [TS]

00:10:05   screen mind control or keyboard [TS]

00:10:10   shortcuts yeah oh speaking of speaking [TS]

00:10:12   of phone cases I do have some follow-up [TS]

00:10:15   you are still case ulis but I am no [TS]

00:10:18   longer caseless oh yeah yeah so as [TS]

00:10:21   winter is setting in here in the East [TS]

00:10:23   Coast in these places that have winter [TS]

00:10:25   I'm like you Casey [TS]

00:10:27   cold dry hands that I'm that I'm getting [TS]

00:10:30   on some at some of these days made me [TS]

00:10:33   feel a lot less secure about carrying [TS]

00:10:35   the iPhone 10 caseless first I tried [TS]

00:10:38   there there's a there's a vendor that I [TS]

00:10:40   will put in these show notes whose name [TS]

00:10:43   I have forgotten again I keep kept [TS]

00:10:45   reading this name that it's basically I [TS]

00:10:49   think it's this one guy in Brooklyn who [TS]

00:10:52   laser cuts leather stick on backing it's [TS]

00:10:55   like from real pieces of leather they're [TS]

00:10:57   really nice and they're only 25 bucks so [TS]

00:10:59   like it's not it's not like a crazy [TS]

00:11:00   crazy thing and and I have one on my [TS]

00:11:03   iPhone 4 and I moved it to the iPhone 4s [TS]

00:11:05   at that because having like a flat piece [TS]

00:11:07   of leather on the back of the phone only [TS]

00:11:10   does not cover the sides that has a [TS]

00:11:11   cutout for the camera that's it but it's [TS]

00:11:13   just like leather with a hole for the [TS]

00:11:15   camera no logos not just blank leather [TS]

00:11:18   and it's high-quality so it feels really [TS]

00:11:20   soft and nice having that on the back of [TS]

00:11:22   the iPhone 4 with it with the glass back [TS]

00:11:24   felt awesome [TS]

00:11:26   it was fantastic I was so glad to happen [TS]

00:11:28   I figured I would let me try that again [TS]

00:11:31   for the iPhone 10 and I use it for a few [TS]

00:11:33   days and if it does indeed feel good [TS]

00:11:35   most of the time but the iPhone 10 [TS]

00:11:37   because it doesn't have straight sides [TS]

00:11:39   and and the four also had like a little [TS]

00:11:41   tiny like rubber gasket lip that ran [TS]

00:11:44   around the glass on the back so it kind [TS]

00:11:46   of provided like a little wall to to [TS]

00:11:49   like keep the border of whatever [TS]

00:11:51   stick-on thing you had in the back there [TS]

00:11:52   like clean and contained the new phones [TS]

00:11:55   don't have it there they're so curvy and [TS]

00:11:57   rounded on the sides that any kind of [TS]

00:11:59   stick-on thing that only covers the back [TS]

00:12:01   if it has any thickness at all like if [TS]

00:12:03   it's not if it's more than just like a [TS]

00:12:04   vinyl sticker kind of thing if it has [TS]

00:12:06   any thickness at all it kind of has to [TS]

00:12:09   create its own edge and that edge guy [TS]

00:12:11   couldn't like peeled up as I would just [TS]

00:12:13   handle the phone like it just clearly [TS]

00:12:15   this is not really made for this anymore [TS]

00:12:16   and and so as much as I love the feel of [TS]

00:12:20   that I decided like I need something [TS]

00:12:23   else that provides grip when to the [TS]

00:12:25   Apple store and felt all the cases and [TS]

00:12:28   actually like they prompted the Apple [TS]

00:12:31   Store it used to be impossible to try [TS]

00:12:33   out a case in the Apple store then the [TS]

00:12:35   stores had these like some sort of have [TS]

00:12:37   like these tables in the middle [TS]

00:12:39   somewhere where they would have like a [TS]

00:12:40   little box or rack full of cases that [TS]

00:12:44   you could try on like with an employee's [TS]

00:12:45   help and now they just have like the key [TS]

00:12:48   like they have an example case on the [TS]

00:12:50   little post but the other cases are like [TS]

00:12:52   that the boxes for the cases are hanging [TS]

00:12:54   on and you can just pick it up and stick [TS]

00:12:56   it on the phone that you have in your [TS]

00:12:57   pocket you can even put in your pocket [TS]

00:12:59   nobody arrest you and then you can go [TS]

00:13:01   put it back and decide whether to buy it [TS]

00:13:02   or not and so you can actually try out [TS]

00:13:04   all the cases on your phone in your hand [TS]

00:13:07   and in your pocket to see how they all [TS]

00:13:09   feel which is really nice I got to give [TS]

00:13:11   him credit for that anyway I tried the [TS]

00:13:13   the silicone case because that provides [TS]

00:13:16   the best grip of all the cases but when [TS]

00:13:18   it goes in and out of [TS]

00:13:19   pocket I have a serious problem with the [TS]

00:13:21   amount of friction that it has there I [TS]

00:13:23   may eventually go to that anyway but I [TS]

00:13:25   I'm hoping I don't have to I tried the [TS]

00:13:28   black leather case first I tried the red [TS]

00:13:30   leather case I tried like colors and [TS]

00:13:31   everything the color seemed way too [TS]

00:13:33   aggressive to me because they come up [TS]

00:13:35   around the edge and so you're like [TS]

00:13:38   you're not just seeing the color on the [TS]

00:13:39   back of your phone you're seeing the [TS]

00:13:41   color framing everything on your phone [TS]

00:13:43   all the time and that to me it just [TS]

00:13:46   looked maybe this was I had just done it [TS]

00:13:47   for the first time but it looked a [TS]

00:13:49   little garish I didn't want like this [TS]

00:13:51   bright red you know 3/4 of a rectangle [TS]

00:13:54   around my content all the time so I went [TS]

00:13:58   with just the Apple black leather case [TS]

00:14:00   the same one I used for the sixth and 6s [TS]

00:14:02   it's fine [TS]

00:14:04   I'm not incredibly happy with it I gotta [TS]

00:14:06   say just because it still has the same [TS]

00:14:08   problem of like it collects dust around [TS]

00:14:10   the rim between it and the phone on the [TS]

00:14:12   front it does cover up a lot of what [TS]

00:14:15   makes this phone attractive at like you [TS]

00:14:17   know case design wise it does smooth out [TS]

00:14:19   the camera bump completely which is very [TS]

00:14:21   nice because the iPhone 10 has a very [TS]

00:14:23   prominent camera bump even more so than [TS]

00:14:24   the previous phones and it really stands [TS]

00:14:26   up far off a desk and makes it hard to [TS]

00:14:28   lie flat so as so the Apple other case [TS]

00:14:30   does fix that but ultimately the one [TS]

00:14:32   thing I'm kind of dissatisfaction [TS]

00:14:37   I like I know Casey you didn't did you [TS]

00:14:39   ever use yours caseless I have very very [TS]

00:14:43   very very briefly but I am way too [TS]

00:14:46   scared especially since I didn't pony up [TS]

00:14:48   for Apple care this time I am way too [TS]

00:14:50   scared to do it with any sort of [TS]

00:14:52   regularity and so it is almost [TS]

00:14:54   exclusively lived in the way in in the [TS]

00:14:56   in the weather case in the leather case [TS]

00:14:58   and so I do quite like the leather case [TS]

00:15:02   I've used leather cases on and off for [TS]

00:15:04   most of my history with iPhones [TS]

00:15:06   I feel like this one I am particularly I [TS]

00:15:11   don't know if I'm looking for what word [TS]

00:15:13   I'm looking for frustrated annoyed [TS]

00:15:14   displeased but one of those negative [TS]

00:15:17   adjectives because I feel like I'm [TS]

00:15:19   getting way more pocket-lint around the [TS]

00:15:22   sides and I've ever had before that's [TS]

00:15:23   probably me being completely bananas but [TS]

00:15:26   it just seems that way and I think [TS]

00:15:29   because the phone is a little bit [TS]

00:15:31   thicker to begin with then [TS]

00:15:33   seven which in and of itself fine but [TS]

00:15:36   then add to your point the leather case [TS]

00:15:38   on top of that which is not thin and by [TS]

00:15:41   comparison to the seven which I've been [TS]

00:15:43   handling you know once or twice a week [TS]

00:15:45   for various reasons trying to get like [TS]

00:15:47   old date off my phone or whatever it [TS]

00:15:49   feels way thicker than my seven does and [TS]

00:15:52   if you recall my seven I did not use a [TS]

00:15:54   case on for the first time in forever [TS]

00:15:56   because I did get AppleCare and ended up [TS]

00:15:59   breaking the screen and this Apple Care [TS]

00:16:02   or not this one I I just don't trust [TS]

00:16:05   myself because I I think I will break it [TS]

00:16:08   without question so that is many words [TS]

00:16:11   to say I have the leather case I have [TS]

00:16:12   often used the leather case and I feel [TS]

00:16:15   like it's the best option I've seen but [TS]

00:16:18   I don't really love it yeah I was [TS]

00:16:21   thinking about trying out like one of [TS]

00:16:22   those D brand skins that mkbhd likes a [TS]

00:16:24   lot I had one of those on my try one of [TS]

00:16:27   those on my six and my six plus back [TS]

00:16:29   when I was experimenting with those and [TS]

00:16:31   they were they were decent they were [TS]

00:16:34   they're especially good a values but [TS]

00:16:34   they're really cheap it was like twelve [TS]

00:16:36   bucks for the whole phone or something [TS]

00:16:37   like that it's it's a very good price [TS]

00:16:39   very good value but I don't think they [TS]

00:16:41   look particularly good I think they look [TS]

00:16:42   a little bit cheesy and tacky and the [TS]

00:16:46   the main problem I have is it just [TS]

00:16:47   didn't provide that much more grip than [TS]

00:16:49   just the bear phone so I think what I'm [TS]

00:16:52   probably gonna do is use the leather [TS]

00:16:54   case on and off like when it's cold and [TS]

00:16:56   my hands are all dry and slippery but [TS]

00:16:58   then most of the time when I don't need [TS]

00:17:00   it for that reason just use it bare [TS]

00:17:02   again because it's so much more pleasant [TS]

00:17:05   using it without a case it definitely is [TS]

00:17:08   and remind me you do or do not have [TS]

00:17:10   Apple care on that I do not oh you are a [TS]

00:17:13   brave soul no I mean and look I admit [TS]

00:17:16   it's a risk but it's also $200 plus the [TS]

00:17:21   fee to replace it if I drop it plus [TS]

00:17:23   there's a limit on how many times you [TS]

00:17:24   can drop it and it's like okay let me [TS]

00:17:26   see if I ever actually drop it and if I [TS]

00:17:28   start dropping it so much that I think [TS]

00:17:30   an extra two hundred dollars a year is a [TS]

00:17:32   good deal then I will change my policy [TS]

00:17:35   but again right now like because I've [TS]

00:17:38   never dropped and broken a phone so far [TS]

00:17:40   it's not a good policy for me yeah I [TS]

00:17:42   don't know I mean really the only clear [TS]

00:17:45   obvious answer [TS]

00:17:47   - just put it in a little baggie every [TS]

00:17:49   time you every time you're done using I [TS]

00:17:51   mean why else why would you do anything [TS]

00:17:52   else it's the only logical screen clean [TS]

00:17:55   oh my god I don't have to worry about [TS]

00:17:57   scratching on stuff in my pockets or [TS]

00:17:59   it's only when I'm outside the house [TS]

00:18:02   it'sa me like that the screen would even [TS]

00:18:04   layer the little pouch that John has to [TS]

00:18:06   drop his phone in and out of that to me [TS]

00:18:08   would increase the risk of dropping it [TS]

00:18:10   because that's one more thing that you [TS]

00:18:12   have to put it into and and you what if [TS]

00:18:15   you slightly miss the edge of the pouch [TS]

00:18:17   and it falls off like yeah or I've never [TS]

00:18:20   dropped my phone but if you are prone to [TS]

00:18:22   dropping this probably increases your [TS]

00:18:24   chances of dropping right and more [TS]

00:18:26   opportunity to miss something right and [TS]

00:18:27   on the way out - it's like here's one [TS]

00:18:29   more thing you have to take the phone [TS]

00:18:30   out of maybe if you reach into your [TS]

00:18:32   pocket you pull it out and maybe you [TS]

00:18:34   forget that it's in there and it [TS]

00:18:35   accidentally slips at the bottom of the [TS]

00:18:36   pouch like there's so many conditions [TS]

00:18:38   where I think that's actually increasing [TS]

00:18:40   your risk of damage it probably is but [TS]

00:18:43   like I said it hasn't happened to me or [TS]

00:18:47   when I'm clumsily trying to get it off [TS]

00:18:49   of like my nightstand it's not in a [TS]

00:18:51   passion that's totally just because I'm [TS]

00:18:53   not awake or it's dark or I'm being [TS]

00:18:55   careless that's the main place my phone [TS]

00:18:57   falls is off of my nightstand onto the [TS]

00:19:00   rug or hardwood floor next to it so we [TS]

00:19:05   we were ostensibly doing follow-up at [TS]

00:19:07   some point right [TS]

00:19:08   yeah we got derailed with with Marcos [TS]

00:19:10   case blows I think we were always [TS]

00:19:11   ostensibly doing filed follow-up in the [TS]

00:19:13   line my MacBook Pro I think you're right [TS]

00:19:17   are we ever really not in follow-up oh [TS]

00:19:20   my word all right so who added this [TS]

00:19:23   glove thing I did because it remember we [TS]

00:19:25   talked about the the Kickstarter for [TS]

00:19:27   those like touch ID fingerprint stick [TS]

00:19:30   who knows that that's even a thing well [TS]

00:19:33   we got a report that it actually is a [TS]

00:19:35   thing of course in Japan you can buy [TS]

00:19:37   them for $7 what do you mean of course [TS]

00:19:39   in Japan what's the old 80s or 90s [TS]

00:19:42   stereotype that Japan is living like 20 [TS]

00:19:44   years in our future and everything is [TS]

00:19:46   awesome there which is not actually true [TS]

00:19:47   but it's the old the old saw from back [TS]

00:19:50   when I was a kid when Japan was gonna [TS]

00:19:51   take over the world because they could [TS]

00:19:52   make better cars than us all right good [TS]

00:19:54   save still can not California Oh God [TS]

00:20:00   you're the worst oh wait is this episode [TS]

00:20:03   250 yeah it is Hey oh this is our 250th [TS]

00:20:07   spectacular yeah do it happy whatever [TS]

00:20:09   this is [TS]

00:20:09   was it we're doing a show oh this is the [TS]

00:20:17   most ATP a moment of any ATP moment [TS]

00:20:19   where is it we're lucky we remembered it [TS]

00:20:21   like not not too far into the show you [TS]

00:20:23   know I totally I was not pretending that [TS]

00:20:25   I remember that you did mention it like [TS]

00:20:27   a week or two ago but I would not have [TS]

00:20:29   thought I mean Marco should think of as [TS]

00:20:31   he sees the episode numbers when he does [TS]

00:20:33   like the like writes out the files and [TS]

00:20:36   stuff well and I thought about it [TS]

00:20:37   earlier this evening when I recorded the [TS]

00:20:39   ads but because I put them in a folder [TS]

00:20:41   called ATP 250 it's this week and then I [TS]

00:20:45   promptly forgot we respond to this week [TS]

00:20:50   by away for $20 off a suitcase visit [TS]

00:20:53   away travel calm slash ATP and use promo [TS]

00:20:56   code ATP during checkout away makes [TS]

00:20:59   awesome high-quality suitcases they come [TS]

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00:21:11   the way suitcases are made with high [TS]

00:21:13   quality German polycarbonate that's very [TS]

00:21:15   lightweight and very strong while [TS]

00:21:17   offering a much lower price compared to [TS]

00:21:19   traditional brands by cutting out retail [TS]

00:21:21   and selling directly to you they have [TS]

00:21:24   all sorts of convenient features like [TS]

00:21:25   for spinning wheels instead of two a [TS]

00:21:27   patent-pending compression system on the [TS]

00:21:29   inside to help you pack a lot of stuff [TS]

00:21:30   in there if you need to removable and [TS]

00:21:32   washable laundry bag a TSA approved [TS]

00:21:34   combination lock and one of the coolest [TS]

00:21:36   features is in their carry-ons they have [TS]

00:21:38   built-in USB batteries so you can [TS]

00:21:40   actually charge your phone while you're [TS]

00:21:41   waiting in an airport for your flight [TS]

00:21:43   and it's wonderful because you never [TS]

00:21:44   have to arrive with empty phone it's [TS]

00:21:46   it's one of those convenient little [TS]

00:21:47   features that you wonder like how did [TS]

00:21:48   anybody ever not have this in a suitcase [TS]

00:21:50   it's pretty awesome and of course all [TS]

00:21:53   this is backed by their lifetime [TS]

00:21:54   warranty if anything ever breaks they [TS]

00:21:56   will fix or replace it for you for life [TS]

00:21:59   you can see for yourself with a hundred [TS]

00:22:01   day trial you can actually bind away [TS]

00:22:03   suitcase travel with it actually travel [TS]

00:22:05   with it for up to a hundred days and at [TS]

00:22:08   the end if you decide it's not right for [TS]

00:22:10   you you can return it for a full refund [TS]

00:22:12   with no questions asked [TS]

00:22:14   so consider a way this holiday season [TS]

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00:22:22   there's a perfect size and color for [TS]

00:22:23   everyone on your list this holiday [TS]

00:22:24   season or if you can't make up your mind [TS]

00:22:26   for somebody you can give them an away [TS]

00:22:28   gift card check out a way today Attaway [TS]

00:22:30   travel calm / ATP and use promo code ATP [TS]

00:22:34   during checkout for a $20 off off your [TS]

00:22:36   suitcase once again that is a way travel [TS]

00:22:38   calm / ATP and promo code ATP a check [TS]

00:22:41   out for $20 off a suitcase thank you so [TS]

00:22:44   much to a way for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:22:45   [Music] [TS]

00:22:48   Aaron Lonard writes I agree with most of [TS]

00:22:51   your points Oh God on the 2016 MacBook [TS]

00:22:54   Pro 15 inch but we'll make one point of [TS]

00:22:56   exception I would not want to live [TS]

00:22:58   without touch ID that was introduced on [TS]

00:23:00   this model I'm a consultant and have to [TS]

00:23:02   use one password constantly how I [TS]

00:23:03   remember those days throughout the day [TS]

00:23:04   to access client systems I have some RSI [TS]

00:23:07   issues from time to time and typing and [TS]

00:23:08   using a finger print versus constantly [TS]

00:23:10   typing to have my very long and complex [TS]

00:23:12   master password it is life-changing to [TS]

00:23:14   my workflow and efficiency the one [TS]

00:23:15   feature offset this one feature offsets [TS]

00:23:17   much of the criticism that I share [TS]

00:23:19   regarding the other issues I think that [TS]

00:23:22   makes sense I've never used a computer [TS]

00:23:23   with touch ID if you recall the most [TS]

00:23:26   modern laptop I have is my macbook [TS]

00:23:28   adorable the one I use for work is that [TS]

00:23:30   piece of garbage that's some like [TS]

00:23:32   popular Apple blogger recommended [TS]

00:23:34   recently that's like 13 years old [TS]

00:23:36   oh is Mark oh that's right so anyway so [TS]

00:23:39   I have a 2015 [TS]

00:23:41   he's 2015 MacBook Pro I have only ever [TS]

00:23:44   used touch bars for like 30 seconds at a [TS]

00:23:46   time in the Apple Store I don't know [TS]

00:23:49   what this amazing future is where you [TS]

00:23:51   can use touch ID but it sounds pretty [TS]

00:23:53   good but you know what sounds are even [TS]

00:23:55   better face ID I want that in my life [TS]

00:23:58   that's exactly why I put this in here is [TS]

00:24:00   like yes touch ID is great but really [TS]

00:24:01   what you really want his face ID because [TS]

00:24:04   then you don't even have to put your [TS]

00:24:05   finger up and your face is always right [TS]

00:24:07   there in view of the camera and touch ID [TS]

00:24:09   and laptops will be so much better our [TS]

00:24:11   face ID and laptops will be so much [TS]

00:24:13   better than touch ID and that's [TS]

00:24:14   something that has touch ID you know [TS]

00:24:16   obviously I don't use in clamshell most [TS]

00:24:18   of the time but even when it's not in [TS]

00:24:19   clamshell like when I'm carrying around [TS]

00:24:21   for meeting stuff to unlock it because [TS]

00:24:22   you know I like all work laptops it [TS]

00:24:24   locks instantly if you like glance away [TS]

00:24:25   from it for two seconds [TS]

00:24:27   it is and I don't know if this is the [TS]

00:24:29   fault idea I don't think this is the [TS]

00:24:31   fault of Judge Atia I think it's the [TS]

00:24:32   fault of all the evil software the [TS]

00:24:34   enterprises make you put on your [TS]

00:24:35   computer to make them crappier but you [TS]

00:24:38   open that thing up and I put my finger [TS]

00:24:40   on that touchpad and it's like a long [TS]

00:24:42   time before that computer does anything [TS]

00:24:43   why probably has something to do with [TS]

00:24:45   Active Directory or Wi-Fi certificates [TS]

00:24:48   or God knows what it's doing but all I [TS]

00:24:50   know is it's not reading my fingerprint [TS]

00:24:53   and unlocking in the computer same thing [TS]

00:24:55   when I disconnected and connected from I [TS]

00:24:56   really awesome [TS]

00:24:57   super duper Thunderbolt Doc thingy that [TS]

00:24:59   lets me have one cable that plugs in to [TS]

00:25:02   power this whole thing of peripherals [TS]

00:25:03   that's great part that's not great as I [TS]

00:25:05   plug or unplug that cable I might as [TS]

00:25:08   well go for a drink while my computer [TS]

00:25:09   does sometimes I get a beach ball [TS]

00:25:14   sometimes they don't get a beach ball [TS]

00:25:16   sometimes it remembers my clicks and [TS]

00:25:17   replays them a minute later sometimes it [TS]

00:25:19   doesn't remember my click and replay [TS]

00:25:20   them later it just seemed like your it [TS]

00:25:22   just like it says to me you're not gonna [TS]

00:25:25   use me for a while cuz I'm doing [TS]

00:25:26   something and I and maybe it's wrong for [TS]

00:25:29   me to always blame Active Directory but [TS]

00:25:30   I do pretty much always playing that [TS]

00:25:32   Active Directory is I don't [TS]

00:25:33   I was not formally on the Active [TS]

00:25:34   Directory network with my old computer [TS]

00:25:37   and now I am and everything is worse one [TS]

00:25:39   thing I've family probably is not gonna [TS]

00:25:42   be helping your issues here [TS]

00:25:43   unfortunately but when I first got my [TS]

00:25:46   wonderful but used 2015 it would [TS]

00:25:49   occasionally fail to wake up from sleep [TS]

00:25:51   and I thought this was a high sierra bug [TS]

00:25:54   but it turns out that it's just a [TS]

00:25:56   15-inch MacBook Pro 2015 bug that seemed [TS]

00:26:01   to exist before high sierra and it has [TS]

00:26:03   to do apparently with power nap if you [TS]

00:26:05   disable power nap it completely stops [TS]

00:26:08   like the this problem just goes away [TS]

00:26:10   completely I also noticed sometimes that [TS]

00:26:12   wet like it would it would seem to be [TS]

00:26:14   running and warm while in my bag [TS]

00:26:17   charging so very obviously like a power [TS]

00:26:20   nap related problem but I also as part [TS]

00:26:24   of the attempts to diagnose this problem [TS]

00:26:26   disable hibernation because what what [TS]

00:26:29   any what every MacBook Pro does since [TS]

00:26:32   the 2012 model is the the 2000 of retina [TS]

00:26:35   model not the 2012 not retina because [TS]

00:26:37   back then when they introduced a radical [TS]

00:26:39   new design they [TS]

00:26:40   also updated the previous design with [TS]

00:26:42   the new components anyway since the 2012 [TS]

00:26:45   retina MacBook Pro and forward one of [TS]

00:26:47   the reasons why they now get such better [TS]

00:26:49   standby battery life is that after a few [TS]

00:26:51   hours of not being woken up if they're [TS]

00:26:53   not plugged in they go into full [TS]

00:26:55   hibernation which PC users have been [TS]

00:26:57   familiar with for a long time which [TS]

00:26:58   basically means they write the contents [TS]

00:26:59   of RAM to a file on disk and fully [TS]

00:27:01   turnoff then when you boot it up it has [TS]

00:27:03   to like kind of wake up from that deep [TS]

00:27:06   hibernation by reading that hyper file [TS]

00:27:07   and back into RAM and that's why it [TS]

00:27:09   takes a little bit longer you might see [TS]

00:27:10   a little bit different progress bar when [TS]

00:27:11   it boots up this is slow and crappy and [TS]

00:27:15   if you are leaving your computer [TS]

00:27:16   unplugged from battery for two weeks [TS]

00:27:19   it's very helpful but if you plug it in [TS]

00:27:22   like every day and you're leaving it [TS]

00:27:25   closed for a few hours then this is very [TS]

00:27:27   annoying and so I disabled that and by [TS]

00:27:31   the way once you disable that you can [TS]

00:27:32   also delete the hibernation file which [TS]

00:27:34   can get you back in disc space the [TS]

00:27:36   amount of RAM you have which is nice [TS]

00:27:37   look up on every Mac forum since 2012 on [TS]

00:27:40   how to do this since I disabled both [TS]

00:27:42   power nap for the weird bugs and the [TS]

00:27:44   hibernation with whatever like the [TS]

00:27:47   pseudo PM set command us to do it it [TS]

00:27:49   wakes up way faster from sleep like [TS]

00:27:52   because what you're describing John that [TS]

00:27:54   happens that's happened for to every [TS]

00:27:56   MacBook Pro for quite a while I did [TS]

00:27:58   notice during you know in my time using [TS]

00:28:00   the touch bar versions that was always [TS]

00:28:02   way worse on the touch bars so whatever [TS]

00:28:05   it's doing waking up from sleep or [TS]

00:28:06   hibernation or whatever it whatever it [TS]

00:28:08   is something seems to be extra long or [TS]

00:28:11   delayed or blocking or waiting for [TS]

00:28:13   something on touch bar models that was [TS]

00:28:15   worse when they first came out [TS]

00:28:17   subsequent software improvements have [TS]

00:28:19   dropped that delay somewhat but they [TS]

00:28:21   still do it are you are you on icy air [TS]

00:28:23   yet people just know what subsequent [TS]

00:28:24   flyby oh okay I guess it's only bezels [TS]

00:28:26   subsequent whatever yeah I know it's so [TS]

00:28:30   ya know I don't think I don't think it's [TS]

00:28:31   hibernation or power nap although I like [TS]

00:28:33   I routinely do you say below as well for [TS]

00:28:35   usually for this space reason it's like [TS]

00:28:36   I've been doing that ever since you know [TS]

00:28:38   ever since the RAM got so big that it [TS]

00:28:39   started to eat a chunk eight but I come [TS]

00:28:41   to think about maybe I didn't do that on [TS]

00:28:42   my work back but I'm sure it's not [TS]

00:28:44   hibernating like this is me like I close [TS]

00:28:45   it and then 30 seconds later I open it [TS]

00:28:47   like it hasn't gone into hibernation at [TS]

00:28:49   that point right and it's not like this [TS]

00:28:50   screen is inert when it's coming out of [TS]

00:28:52   hibernation [TS]

00:28:53   some things work and sometimes I think [TS]

00:28:54   can bring an application to the front [TS]

00:28:55   like before the beach ball appears but [TS]

00:28:57   then eventually it stops responding [TS]

00:28:58   power nap I haven't looked into is again [TS]

00:29:00   like you know power nap should only [TS]

00:29:02   happen like Oh your computer's been [TS]

00:29:03   asleep for a while now it's going to [TS]

00:29:04   check email or some crap or do local [TS]

00:29:05   Time Machine snapshots and I'd haven't [TS]

00:29:08   disabled that and I'm sure my computer [TS]

00:29:09   is doing that if it would ever go to [TS]

00:29:12   sleep I think I have it set never to [TS]

00:29:13   sleep because it's plugged in and [TS]

00:29:14   battery power but maybe there's some [TS]

00:29:16   other weird interaction where a power [TS]

00:29:18   nap is enabled at all it does some weird [TS]

00:29:19   thing you just wake it up so I'll try [TS]

00:29:21   both those things to get back to you but [TS]

00:29:22   I don't like having to do this voodoo I [TS]

00:29:23   like to just open the computer up and I [TS]

00:29:26   mean the screen turns on immediately and [TS]

00:29:28   it seems you know it seems like it's [TS]

00:29:29   ready to go in terms of like the mouse [TS]

00:29:33   cursor moves I could just it's it's like [TS]

00:29:36   golf is a good walk spoiled like laptops [TS]

00:29:38   are a good computer spoiled like just [TS]

00:29:42   desktops they work fine you walk up to [TS]

00:29:44   them you wiggle the mouse you hit the [TS]

00:29:45   keyboard like you're there you just go [TS]

00:29:47   and like computer like yes I'm here use [TS]

00:29:49   me net ops like I don't know I don't [TS]

00:29:51   know about that and that's what makes [TS]

00:29:54   such I'd be worse is because your [TS]

00:29:55   fingers there's like kind of left my [TS]

00:29:56   finger should when should I put my [TS]

00:29:57   finger down should I wait for the little [TS]

00:29:59   animation on the touch bar saying touch [TS]

00:30:00   ID here has it already authenticated me [TS]

00:30:02   and I was waiting if that's often the [TS]

00:30:03   case [TS]

00:30:03   sometimes it's already authenticated I [TS]

00:30:05   give up I take my finger off and I'm [TS]

00:30:06   like come on computer what are you doing [TS]

00:30:07   and then it unlocks like based on a [TS]

00:30:09   finger that was laid on there like 15 [TS]

00:30:11   seconds ago I don't like laptops you [TS]

00:30:14   know you're right the Menai am in a car [TS]

00:30:18   it'll pay in the passenger seat and I [TS]

00:30:20   need to do a little bit of work I like [TS]

00:30:21   bringing my iMac and my inverter you [TS]

00:30:25   have nothing to be ashamed of nothing to [TS]

00:30:27   apologize for side blew it oh my god [TS]

00:30:30   when I'm on an airplane you know what [TS]

00:30:32   the best way to use a computer on an [TS]

00:30:34   airplane is 27-inch iMac hell yeah [TS]

00:30:37   that's where I like to use my desktops [TS]

00:30:39   what I'm learning over over time as I [TS]

00:30:42   get old and and more like John is that [TS]

00:30:44   like I would rather just not use a [TS]

00:30:46   computer in a car and just wait till I [TS]

00:30:49   get back to my listeners I uh I hope [TS]

00:30:55   somebody out there is face I literally [TS]

00:30:57   just face bombed I hope somebody else [TS]

00:30:59   out there is facepalming as bad as I am [TS]

00:31:02   because you guys man [TS]

00:31:04   the combined age of the to you is [TS]

00:31:06   approximately 134 years old [TS]

00:31:08   actually the real answer I mean the [TS]

00:31:09   thing that both DeMarco I think everyone [TS]

00:31:11   agree on iOS devices like so they you [TS]

00:31:13   don't have problems and iOS devices [TS]

00:31:14   imagine if you took out your iOS device [TS]

00:31:16   at like your iPad hit the power switch [TS]

00:31:17   and had to wait the amount of time I [TS]

00:31:19   have to wait to use my laptop it would [TS]

00:31:20   be like is this thing broken right [TS]

00:31:22   instantly like face ID touch ID it's [TS]

00:31:24   like ready to go instantly immediately [TS]

00:31:27   none of this whole like let me wake up [TS]

00:31:29   and do whatever I'm doing and put a [TS]

00:31:31   beach ball there's no place to put the [TS]

00:31:32   beach planner but like if an iOS device [TS]

00:31:34   does that it seems broken and you know [TS]

00:31:37   it made more sense like well iOS devices [TS]

00:31:40   you can only run one application at a [TS]

00:31:41   time and they're highly optimized but at [TS]

00:31:43   this point iOS devices have faster CPUs [TS]

00:31:45   than Mac's are doing our multitasking or [TS]

00:31:47   doing they're still RAM starved but [TS]

00:31:49   they're they're full-fledged machines [TS]

00:31:51   and it's just something something in the [TS]

00:31:54   the remember when there was an effort a [TS]

00:31:55   while back to I don't know [TS]

00:31:57   if this was a public marketing effort or [TS]

00:32:00   just something that people would say [TS]

00:32:01   behind closed doors or whatever that [TS]

00:32:03   trying to make the Mac experience like [TS]

00:32:06   the iOS experience like when you just [TS]

00:32:07   open it up and it's ready to go on stage [TS]

00:32:09   wasn't it didn't Steve Jobs said at one [TS]

00:32:11   point like the MacBook Air is like no it [TS]

00:32:14   was base it was it was a story that had [TS]

00:32:16   gotten at Apple that apparently Steve [TS]

00:32:17   there was a famous meeting where Steve [TS]

00:32:19   walked in and dropped a macbook air on [TS]

00:32:21   the table and draw it in the head like [TS]

00:32:23   and I met an iPad and turned the iPad on [TS]

00:32:25   from sleep and just her comes on and [TS]

00:32:27   he's let's demand Piquet or like why [TS]

00:32:28   can't this do that something like that [TS]

00:32:30   there you go yeah so who knows it was [TS]

00:32:31   really not but but anyway that I I [TS]

00:32:33   endorsed that idea the iOS devices feel [TS]

00:32:36   so much better because there's so much [TS]

00:32:38   crap that is just unacceptable on an iOS [TS]

00:32:39   device and on the Mac we're still [TS]

00:32:42   suffering under the burden of you know [TS]

00:32:44   this older behavior that did I guess [TS]

00:32:46   laptop users just live with and just [TS]

00:32:47   think it's the price of using a laptop I [TS]

00:32:49   don't like it well I mean you know the [TS]

00:32:52   the the job that a laptop has to do is [TS]

00:32:55   way more complicated like a lot of that [TS]

00:32:57   like waking up from sleep delay as stuff [TS]

00:32:59   like checking USB peripherals and you [TS]

00:33:01   know stuff like that that I hadn't have [TS]

00:33:02   to worry about but a lot of it is just [TS]

00:33:04   like stuff they could get rid of it they [TS]

00:33:05   if they really tried but you know the [TS]

00:33:08   Mac is not in a position where it's [TS]

00:33:10   getting a lot of effort for the most [TS]

00:33:11   part it seems I thought that Mac's [TS]

00:33:14   hibernated every time they went to sleep [TS]

00:33:17   they just kept the memory powered on [TS]

00:33:18   until that until the battery had dropped [TS]

00:33:21   like [TS]

00:33:22   or was that a dangerous level or [TS]

00:33:24   something like that I thought they [TS]

00:33:25   always wrote the contents of RAM to disk [TS]

00:33:27   every single time I don't know that's [TS]

00:33:29   not true [TS]

00:33:29   again I've routinely disabled it um the [TS]

00:33:32   laptops that are in my house just to [TS]

00:33:34   save the disk space but if that's an [TS]

00:33:35   also benefit I'll look into it I'll make [TS]

00:33:38   sure it's off on my work loan and see [TS]

00:33:39   how goes last bit of follow up dan leer [TS]

00:33:42   writes in this is with regard to our [TS]

00:33:44   Thanksgiving list from last episode [TS]

00:33:46   nobody's thankful for the switch I'm [TS]

00:33:48   surprised the switch didn't make [TS]

00:33:49   anyone's list despite how much time [TS]

00:33:51   you've talked about Zelda Mario Kart [TS]

00:33:52   start a valley and playing with friends [TS]

00:33:53   and family etc for me it was both an [TS]

00:33:58   omission by accident and somewhat [TS]

00:34:01   deliberately I still do use my switch [TS]

00:34:03   from time to time I still well so some I [TS]

00:34:06   think John put this in the show notes [TS]

00:34:07   and he cut the key piece that which was [TS]

00:34:09   I believe Dan had said basically is this [TS]

00:34:12   because it was a fad or because you just [TS]

00:34:15   don't or you just didn't think of it and [TS]

00:34:17   for me it's kind of both right like I [TS]

00:34:19   didn't think of it at the time but even [TS]

00:34:20   if I had I don't know that I would have [TS]

00:34:22   said it because I don't use my switch [TS]

00:34:25   near as much as I did when I first got [TS]

00:34:27   it and I do still like it and I'm glad I [TS]

00:34:28   spent the money on it but it's very rare [TS]

00:34:32   I find myself picking that up in the [TS]

00:34:33   evenings but I've also been just super [TS]

00:34:35   super busy for quite a long time now but [TS]

00:34:37   you know when my my family gets together [TS]

00:34:40   like well really Aaron's family a couple [TS]

00:34:43   of my in-laws have have switches and so [TS]

00:34:47   we've been you know generally speaking [TS]

00:34:49   bringing them with us when we have a [TS]

00:34:50   family function and we'll play like a [TS]

00:34:52   couple rounds of Mario Kart or something [TS]

00:34:53   like that so I am thankful for it I [TS]

00:34:56   definitely like it but that is what is [TS]

00:34:59   the top for etiquette that's my number 5 [TS]

00:35:00   or tied for number 4 or is this my like [TS]

00:35:02   my seventh place tie for number one I'm [TS]

00:35:04   only your 17 honorable mentions that's [TS]

00:35:06   what it is yeah it's one of my 17 [TS]

00:35:07   honorable mentions that's right but what [TS]

00:35:10   about the two of you guys I mean for me [TS]

00:35:12   I I should have put the switch on my [TS]

00:35:15   list and I I simply forgot about it [TS]

00:35:17   while making that list which is funny [TS]

00:35:19   because I played it like an hour before [TS]

00:35:21   and played it again the next day so yeah [TS]

00:35:25   the switch has been fantastic for me and [TS]

00:35:27   you know as the audience knows I am not [TS]

00:35:30   much of a gamer at all most of the time [TS]

00:35:32   I usually into like [TS]

00:35:35   game a year maybe I'll be into it for [TS]

00:35:38   like a week or two and I'll stop and [TS]

00:35:39   then that'll be it [TS]

00:35:40   and because TIFF my wife is a gamer she [TS]

00:35:44   we we usually have all or some of the [TS]

00:35:48   current generation game consoles in the [TS]

00:35:50   house ready to go and I just I hardly [TS]

00:35:52   ever touch them because I just don't [TS]

00:35:55   care that much the switch has changed [TS]

00:35:57   that it's really good and I mean you [TS]

00:36:00   know this isn't about a console this is [TS]

00:36:02   about the games and just you know [TS]

00:36:03   Nintendo was in such a bad place with [TS]

00:36:05   the Wii U they were in such a rush to [TS]

00:36:07   get this out that they didn't have time [TS]

00:36:10   to mess it up with getting too far up [TS]

00:36:11   their own butts about what they were [TS]

00:36:12   gonna do about some gimmicky hardware [TS]

00:36:14   thing they just made really great games [TS]

00:36:16   for a really convenient system and [TS]

00:36:18   there's no other gimmicks about it it's [TS]

00:36:20   great it's just so great and in [TS]

00:36:24   particular like you know TIFF and Adam [TS]

00:36:26   really enjoyed zelda together [TS]

00:36:29   I really enjoyed Mario Kart and Sonic [TS]

00:36:32   mania [TS]

00:36:33   we all have been really enjoying stardew [TS]

00:36:35   valley it and there's and there's so [TS]

00:36:37   many more games like i i've bought games [TS]

00:36:40   on if i haven't even run yet just [TS]

00:36:41   because I heard they were so great I [TS]

00:36:43   bought them thinking I play them and I [TS]

00:36:44   haven't even had times I haven't been [TS]

00:36:45   too busy playing all the other great [TS]

00:36:47   games like there's a surplus of amazing [TS]

00:36:49   games for it that we haven't even had a [TS]

00:36:52   chance to play hull of yet that's how [TS]

00:36:54   many of the great games there are and so [TS]

00:36:55   to have all this in a you know in a [TS]

00:36:58   mid-priced system that's very practical [TS]

00:37:01   to have in your life because it can be [TS]

00:37:03   both portable and stationary although [TS]

00:37:04   honestly I don't like the portable [TS]

00:37:05   version of because the screen is too [TS]

00:37:06   small and and the controllers are too [TS]

00:37:08   skinny in and they give my own problems [TS]

00:37:10   with the portable thing you don't say [TS]

00:37:14   yeah and the input devices surprise [TS]

00:37:18   marca the jokes right themselves and [TS]

00:37:21   also I honestly had an HDMI port I need [TS]

00:37:31   to start a holiday party [TS]

00:37:33   but plainly just playing it as a home [TS]

00:37:37   console for me like it's just it's just [TS]

00:37:38   great it's such a great system with such [TS]

00:37:42   great games the switch I am happier with [TS]

00:37:45   the switch then any video game or video [TS]

00:37:48   game system [TS]

00:37:49   at least in the last decade did you like [TS]

00:37:52   your Sega consoles more um yeah but [TS]

00:37:54   those were more than you know at my one [TS]

00:37:56   to say a console my Genesis but that was [TS]

00:37:59   a long time ago when Genesis was current [TS]

00:38:02   which was in like 1993 totally no no I'm [TS]

00:38:06   not trying to mess with you I'm saying [TS]

00:38:07   you know to the best that you can [TS]

00:38:09   remember how you felt when you were 11 [TS]

00:38:11   do you feel like the Genesis provided [TS]

00:38:13   you more joy than the switch does and [TS]

00:38:15   obviously that's a tough question [TS]

00:38:16   because you're a very different person [TS]

00:38:17   now but if you had to choose only one [TS]

00:38:20   you know in in in their current time so [TS]

00:38:23   I'm not asking you to choose the Genesis [TS]

00:38:25   over the switch today you know what what [TS]

00:38:27   would what do you think you would do I I [TS]

00:38:29   need another year with the switch to [TS]

00:38:31   really know it's a little too early so [TS]

00:38:34   far I think they're probably pretty [TS]

00:38:35   close to each other and in that way like [TS]

00:38:37   it's just so damn good and and honestly [TS]

00:38:41   like I've had an xbox like the first one [TS]

00:38:43   I was in say an Xbox one but that's [TS]

00:38:45   something else now so I had the first [TS]

00:38:47   Xbox which I got pre modded with a mod [TS]

00:38:49   chip so I could like rib games onto the [TS]

00:38:51   hard drive and install XBMC which is now [TS]

00:38:54   Plex that's kind of where it all started [TS]

00:38:58   and so like you know so I had that I had [TS]

00:39:02   a Wii the first we not the stupid you [TS]

00:39:05   sorry Joan I had the ps3 and four and a [TS]

00:39:11   360 and I had a lot of fun with some of [TS]

00:39:14   those but none of them were as good as a [TS]

00:39:15   switch just you know game library wise [TS]

00:39:18   so I'm very I'm very much enjoying this [TS]

00:39:21   and anybody who used to have fun with [TS]

00:39:25   games but it's maybe fallen out of it [TS]

00:39:26   like I did give the switch a try it's [TS]

00:39:28   really fun John I totally forgot about [TS]

00:39:33   the switch but if I had remembered it I [TS]

00:39:35   wouldn't have listed the switch for [TS]

00:39:36   actually for a lot of the same reasons [TS]

00:39:37   Marko mentioned because I'd never used [TS]

00:39:40   it in portable what if I can help it [TS]

00:39:41   because it's not ergonomically just [TS]

00:39:43   doesn't fit me organ Amma Klee I never [TS]

00:39:45   take the little joy cones off of it I [TS]

00:39:47   just leave it on there I only use the [TS]

00:39:49   pro controller with it I only hook up [TS]

00:39:50   the TV mmm [TS]

00:39:51   and in that you know in that way as a [TS]

00:39:54   console I don't think it's a like it's [TS]

00:39:57   not it's not my favorite I wouldn't have [TS]

00:39:59   listed it as a thing that I'm thankful [TS]

00:40:00   for because I think the pro controller [TS]

00:40:02   is not a [TS]

00:40:03   good as the GameCube controller or maybe [TS]

00:40:06   not even as good as the Wii U pro [TS]

00:40:08   controller and the fact that it's this [TS]

00:40:10   weird portable thing that I have to put [TS]

00:40:12   into a dock and hook up to my TV and it [TS]

00:40:14   just doesn't you know it's compromised [TS]

00:40:16   by the fact that it needs to be portable [TS]

00:40:17   I wish it was more powerful blah blah [TS]

00:40:19   all my complaints typically intended [TS]

00:40:20   consoles so if I listed something what I [TS]

00:40:22   would listed is the games and [TS]

00:40:24   specifically I would it was Elda which [TS]

00:40:25   for me is head and shoulders like the [TS]

00:40:27   other games it great like I love them [TS]

00:40:28   but Zelda is the most important Nintendo [TS]

00:40:31   franchise for me and this was a very [TS]

00:40:33   significant Zelda game breaking with the [TS]

00:40:35   past and lots of very interesting ways [TS]

00:40:37   and I just thought it was an amazing [TS]

00:40:39   game probably still not my favorite [TS]

00:40:41   Zelda blog people ask me that you know [TS]

00:40:43   as much as I love it and you know does [TS]

00:40:45   so many things so much better than every [TS]

00:40:46   other Zelda has ever done them it falls [TS]

00:40:48   down in a couple areas but that's what I [TS]

00:40:50   would elicit I will elicit breath of the [TS]

00:40:52   world as the thing that I should have [TS]

00:40:53   been thinking more I just they just [TS]

00:40:54   slipped my mind it's funny to me that [TS]

00:40:58   you guys are lamenting the portability [TS]

00:41:01   of it because holy smokes like some of [TS]

00:41:04   the almost all of the fun I've had with [TS]

00:41:07   the switch is because I've been in some [TS]

00:41:10   sort of group setting like some of the [TS]

00:41:12   most fun times I've had with the switch [TS]

00:41:14   has been the handful times that we [TS]

00:41:16   played Mario Kart together at work we'd [TS]

00:41:17   all got to gather around like at a few [TS]

00:41:20   tables or something and and sit there in [TS]

00:41:22   play Mario Kart against each other and [TS]

00:41:24   it's like you know all the all the great [TS]

00:41:26   parts about a LAN party back in the day [TS]

00:41:28   where you can shout and yell at your [TS]

00:41:30   friends and you know in in in call them [TS]

00:41:33   terrible names and whatnot because [TS]

00:41:36   they're sitting right next to you and [TS]

00:41:37   you can do all of that without having to [TS]

00:41:39   in here I'm telling you how old I am [TS]

00:41:41   without having to log like a 50 pound [TS]

00:41:43   CRT no so so I'm not trying to say [TS]

00:41:49   you're wrong I'm really honestly not I'm [TS]

00:41:50   just saying I'm surprised that you guys [TS]

00:41:52   don't really favor the portability at [TS]

00:41:56   all because that is like I said you [TS]

00:41:58   about my family and and and certainly it [TS]

00:42:01   work from time to time daddy and even at [TS]

00:42:03   WDC I organized on beacon I think it was [TS]

00:42:06   I organized like a little get-together [TS]

00:42:07   for playing Mario Kart and to me those [TS]

00:42:10   are such fun times and they really [TS]

00:42:13   define the switch to me in a way that [TS]

00:42:17   no other console I've had has really [TS]

00:42:20   worked and everyone's allowed their own [TS]

00:42:22   experience I'm just super surprised I [TS]

00:42:24   mean I would love the portability to be [TS]

00:42:26   to work out better and more often for me [TS]

00:42:27   and I think ease maybe like I'll take it [TS]

00:42:29   to like you know if I know would be like [TS]

00:42:31   sitting in a doctor's office waiting [TS]

00:42:32   room for a little while like I'll take [TS]

00:42:34   it sometimes but it's just like using [TS]

00:42:36   the joy cons is just very uncomfortable [TS]

00:42:38   for me there there clearly made for much [TS]

00:42:41   smaller hand with it so it's probably [TS]

00:42:42   made for like children and teenagers to [TS]

00:42:43   be able to comfortably use and I just I [TS]

00:42:45   can't like it hurts my hands to use it [TS]

00:42:48   for more than a few minutes and I also [TS]

00:42:50   like because I'm also accustomed to [TS]

00:42:51   playing on a giant nice OLED TV with [TS]

00:42:56   like you know speakers and everything [TS]

00:42:57   sitting on the couch with the pro [TS]

00:42:59   controller the portable experience is [TS]

00:43:02   like the screen is noticeably crappy or [TS]

00:43:04   you know I don't get my wonderful oled [TS]

00:43:06   black levels it's it's a very very small [TS]

00:43:08   screen for old people like me and John [TS]

00:43:11   and people with broken eyes like you [TS]

00:43:12   like it is a it's a really small screen [TS]

00:43:15   compared to it most modern TVs and so to [TS]

00:43:17   me like it just doesn't it doesn't work [TS]

00:43:20   as well in portable mode and I'm like [TS]

00:43:22   I'm probably the only person in the [TS]

00:43:24   world like and normally mint endows [TS]

00:43:26   portable consoles they eventually get [TS]

00:43:28   like you know mini version they're new [TS]

00:43:30   versions I'm the only person I think in [TS]

00:43:32   the world wanting the switch XL to [TS]

00:43:34   actually basically get really fat like I [TS]

00:43:37   want like I want to switch that doesn't [TS]

00:43:40   have detachable controllers that [TS]

00:43:41   basically has controller wings that are [TS]

00:43:44   approximately the shape of a pro [TS]

00:43:45   controller and and the whole thing gets [TS]

00:43:48   bigger to accommodate a screen closer to [TS]

00:43:51   maybe an iPad Mini size like that's what [TS]

00:43:53   I would like I don't think they're going [TS]

00:43:55   to make that because no one else wants [TS]

00:43:57   that except me and maybe John but [TS]

00:43:59   ultimately the the portability it just [TS]

00:44:01   it's too small to be comfortable for me [TS]

00:44:04   I don't want it to be thicker I want it [TS]

00:44:06   to be a Gamecube to be a non portable [TS]

00:44:11   console without a screen on it that's [TS]

00:44:12   like four times as powerful but again [TS]

00:44:15   that's not what people want the main [TS]

00:44:16   appeal the switch to be clear for most [TS]

00:44:18   people is exactly what you said Casey [TS]

00:44:19   hey it's the same game portable and on [TS]

00:44:22   your TV and it works great in both [TS]

00:44:23   places that is the main appeal but Marco [TS]

00:44:25   and I just happened to be oddballs both [TS]

00:44:28   in the camp where we want to play it [TS]

00:44:29   sitting on our couch [TS]

00:44:30   that's that and we're happy with it [TS]

00:44:31   they're like it's not like I have come [TS]

00:44:32   you know my complaint is it's not [TS]

00:44:34   powerful enough and it's compromised [TS]

00:44:35   that but I'm you know I enjoy the games [TS]

00:44:38   like breath of the wild was an amazing [TS]

00:44:40   game especially given the power of the [TS]

00:44:42   console we are sponsored this week by [TS]

00:44:46   ero finally Wi-Fi that works go to ero [TS]

00:44:49   calm and use promo code ATP at checkout [TS]

00:44:51   to make overnight shipping free to the [TS]

00:44:53   US and Canada Wi-Fi has always had two [TS]

00:44:55   problems for most people one it doesn't [TS]

00:44:58   reach your whole house there's always [TS]

00:44:59   like weak zones or dead zones or it [TS]

00:45:00   doesn't reach the back room and two it's [TS]

00:45:03   usually really hard to set up especially [TS]

00:45:04   for non-technical people euro solves [TS]

00:45:07   both of these problems so number one [TS]

00:45:09   they know as we do that no matter how [TS]

00:45:12   many antennas you stick on top of a [TS]

00:45:13   router [TS]

00:45:14   it's never gonna cover your entire house [TS]

00:45:16   perfectly you need multiple access [TS]

00:45:19   points needs to be broadcasting that [TS]

00:45:20   signal from multiple different little [TS]

00:45:21   boxes around your house not just one [TS]

00:45:23   somewhere like in the basement or in the [TS]

00:45:25   middle somewhere [TS]

00:45:25   Eero solves that problem perfectly by [TS]

00:45:27   having multiple radios so they have two [TS]

00:45:29   different models they have the standard [TS]

00:45:31   ero base station and this is now the [TS]

00:45:33   second-generation one it has a much [TS]

00:45:35   faster radio much faster throughput and [TS]

00:45:37   they also now have these little beacons [TS]

00:45:39   that you can plug in at different points [TS]

00:45:41   around the house to help broadcast more [TS]

00:45:43   Wi-Fi signal that beacons are these [TS]

00:45:45   little flush things they sit flush [TS]

00:45:46   against the wall just in an outlet it [TS]

00:45:48   looks kind of like a big nightlight and [TS]

00:45:50   in fact they even built in a nightlight [TS]

00:45:51   just to help you have make it look a [TS]

00:45:52   little more useful and you can plug them [TS]

00:45:54   in anywhere everything is now faster or [TS]

00:45:56   longer range better performance so they [TS]

00:45:58   solve the coverage problem better than [TS]

00:46:00   anything else I've seen and then they [TS]

00:46:02   also solve the ease-of-use problem also [TS]

00:46:04   better than anything else I've ever seen [TS]

00:46:05   this is one area you know if you're a [TS]

00:46:07   nerd and you've used multiple access [TS]

00:46:09   point Wi-Fi systems before like I have [TS]

00:46:11   you will be shocked how easy [TS]

00:46:13   Eero is to set up it is really quite [TS]

00:46:15   something else to see and it's so easy I [TS]

00:46:17   can easily recommend it to any kind of [TS]

00:46:19   non-technical friends or family you [TS]

00:46:21   might have if you if you need to help [TS]

00:46:23   them with their Wi-Fi this year [TS]

00:46:24   check out euro you will be shocked how [TS]

00:46:26   easy it is and the performance is [TS]

00:46:28   wonderful [TS]

00:46:29   especially with this new [TS]

00:46:30   second-generation hardware the new [TS]

00:46:32   beacons are small discreet and very very [TS]

00:46:36   flexible you can put them pretty much [TS]

00:46:37   anywhere and they have the nightlight [TS]

00:46:38   built in check it out today go to [TS]

00:46:39   eurocom as eer Oh calm and use Pro [TS]

00:46:42   code ATP at checkout to get free [TS]

00:46:44   overnight shipping to the US and Canada [TS]

00:46:47   thank you so much to ero for sponsoring [TS]

00:46:49   our show we should move on to ask ATP [TS]

00:46:54   and conveniently we have a switch [TS]

00:46:56   related question star susumi writes have [TS]

00:46:58   you guys played Super Mario artists [TS]

00:47:00   Odyssey how do you think about it yeah [TS]

00:47:02   what do you think of it and I have not [TS]

00:47:04   in that's a no small part because I [TS]

00:47:06   haven't really touched my switch very [TS]

00:47:07   much recently [TS]

00:47:08   but let's start with Marco Marco have [TS]

00:47:10   you played Super Mario Odyssey not yet [TS]

00:47:12   I'm still spending all my switch time [TS]

00:47:14   when starting a valley and behind that I [TS]

00:47:16   also have like the the Mario Rabbids [TS]

00:47:18   game and I still have to finish the last [TS]

00:47:21   few zones of Sonic mania and it's it's [TS]

00:47:23   so many games I can't keep up but I'm [TS]

00:47:26   also I'm a little bit concerned that it [TS]

00:47:28   might not like Mario Odyssey because [TS]

00:47:30   people are saying it's almost like a [TS]

00:47:32   cross between Mario 64 and Zelda that is [TS]

00:47:35   not true ok because I I didn't I never [TS]

00:47:38   liked the way the Mario series went 3d [TS]

00:47:41   very much like it was really cool at a [TS]

00:47:42   time like before mario 64 but like i [TS]

00:47:45   always like the 2d ones a lot better and [TS]

00:47:47   Zelda's not really my kind of game like [TS]

00:47:48   the kind of you know big adventure RPG [TS]

00:47:50   kind of thing so John should I be [TS]

00:47:52   playing Mario Odyssey if you don't like [TS]

00:47:54   3d marios super ioz is a 3d Mario I like [TS]

00:47:57   3d Mario so I like Super Mario de si and [TS]

00:48:00   in the pantheon of 3d marios know where [TS]

00:48:03   I'd put it like I really like galaxy as [TS]

00:48:05   well galaxy was very different and had I [TS]

00:48:08   think more of a twist on the typical [TS]

00:48:11   Mario formula even if it was more [TS]

00:48:13   constrained but I like being on little [TS]

00:48:14   planets and doing stuff and mera I see [TS]

00:48:17   is a little bit more of return to [TS]

00:48:19   conventions of well it's just regular 3d [TS]

00:48:22   Mario with a little bit more open world [TS]

00:48:24   but Super Mario sea is so unashamedly [TS]

00:48:27   wacky in some ways I feel like it is [TS]

00:48:29   it's sillier than I want it to be like I [TS]

00:48:32   take matters more seriously than this [TS]

00:48:34   game does but in other ways it's [TS]

00:48:36   highlighted to me exactly how much how [TS]

00:48:38   much more I like some of the other [TS]

00:48:40   franchises like Zelda is my number one [TS]

00:48:41   and I think even Metroid has been [TS]

00:48:43   elevated to potentially the other [TS]

00:48:45   franchise that I'm more excited about [TS]

00:48:46   but as far as Mario games go if you like [TS]

00:48:50   3d Mario games you like this for marco [TS]

00:48:52   maybe something that will keep him [TS]

00:48:53   interested in as they do [TS]

00:48:55   have tons of nostalgic pandering to the [TS]

00:48:59   people who are fans of 2d Mario but I [TS]

00:49:01   don't if you really don't like 3d Mario [TS]

00:49:03   I'm not sure that'll be enough to keep [TS]

00:49:05   you interesting but I would say just [TS]

00:49:06   like I was like play it like and let you [TS]

00:49:08   know let Adam play it and just watch [TS]

00:49:11   like it's it's just such a fun game it's [TS]

00:49:13   it's so unashamed to say there's no [TS]

00:49:16   rhyme or reason why this is here it's [TS]

00:49:18   just because it's fun and there's lots [TS]

00:49:20   of fun things to do and explore and play [TS]

00:49:22   with and you can kind of go at your own [TS]

00:49:24   pace and it's very very gentle and it's [TS]

00:49:26   not particularly punishing except for a [TS]

00:49:28   couple of checkpoints that are a little [TS]

00:49:30   farther back than I would want them to [TS]

00:49:32   be so I say you should definitely get it [TS]

00:49:34   because I think your family as a whole [TS]

00:49:36   have fun with it whether you will spend [TS]

00:49:38   more than a little time with it or not [TS]

00:49:39   all right [TS]

00:49:41   MZ writes do you use robotic vacuum [TS]

00:49:43   cleaners if yes what brands in UK use [TS]

00:49:46   cases work for you and if not why I have [TS]

00:49:49   never owned a Roomba or anything like it [TS]

00:49:51   I would guess that if I were to get one [TS]

00:49:53   I would get a Roomba because marketing [TS]

00:49:55   it I've never used one and have never [TS]

00:49:59   really felt a need for it I have [TS]

00:50:01   experience with rumbas here and there [TS]

00:50:03   but not a lot of experience and and none [TS]

00:50:05   of it that was so compelling that I [TS]

00:50:08   thought I must have one of these I don't [TS]

00:50:10   know if they've gotten better [TS]

00:50:12   you know meaningfully since then but the [TS]

00:50:15   limitations they had back then were [TS]

00:50:16   basically like you know they couldn't [TS]

00:50:18   they would they wouldn't really get [TS]

00:50:20   everywhere they wouldn't really be able [TS]

00:50:21   to go on all surfaces and rugs and [TS]

00:50:23   everything they would occasionally get [TS]

00:50:24   stuck and complain and some kind of [TS]

00:50:26   happy song I know at least the newer [TS]

00:50:28   ones will like go back to their base and [TS]

00:50:29   charge themselves which is nice but it [TS]

00:50:33   just seems like a lot of trouble and [TS]

00:50:35   noise and expense and hassle and one [TS]

00:50:39   more electronic thing to manage to solve [TS]

00:50:41   a problem partway and and it's like well [TS]

00:50:44   you still have to vacuum if it can't do [TS]

00:50:47   the whole house effectively so I'm not [TS]

00:50:49   it maybe these things are better than I [TS]

00:50:52   remember them or maybe they've gotten [TS]

00:50:53   better but my limited experience with [TS]

00:50:55   them is not compelling I've never had [TS]

00:50:59   one and I've never thought about buying [TS]

00:51:00   one just because it just doesn't seem [TS]

00:51:02   like it can do the job I mean you could [TS]

00:51:03   see how big their I'd like these little [TS]

00:51:05   pucks I've got more crap in my house [TS]

00:51:07   than fits in there I see how much is [TS]

00:51:09   clear the clear bagless container of my [TS]

00:51:12   thing when I actually vacuum you know [TS]

00:51:13   the entire first floor of the house [TS]

00:51:15   that's not gonna fit in there rumba [TS]

00:51:16   rumba can't empty itself and so yeah it [TS]

00:51:19   just seems like it may it looks like a [TS]

00:51:20   fun novelty and if you have them just [TS]

00:51:21   sort of let you go longer between [TS]

00:51:24   actually vacuuming I can see that or if [TS]

00:51:27   you have a house where you don't have [TS]

00:51:29   pets that are going to attack it and or [TS]

00:51:30   feel attacked by it which is another [TS]

00:51:31   factor and having an autonomous thing [TS]

00:51:33   wandering around your house but nope [TS]

00:51:35   never tried I put this question there [TS]

00:51:36   just because I thought maybe Marco might [TS]

00:51:38   have it now that he's got all those [TS]

00:51:39   little like a light switch clappers and [TS]

00:51:41   all his other home automation stuff but [TS]

00:51:43   I guess clapper still yeah you're still [TS]

00:51:46   resisting the robot invasion of our [TS]

00:51:49   homes all right and finally this is for [TS]

00:51:57   marco eric new rights what fraction of [TS]

00:52:00   total audio gets cut by marco for the [TS]

00:52:01   finished podcast so i will say to set [TS]

00:52:03   you up marco that we record at about [TS]

00:52:06   nine o'clock in the evening our time and [TS]

00:52:09   typically and between 11:45 and midnight [TS]

00:52:12   and and we are recording pretty much [TS]

00:52:15   that entire time now that may or may not [TS]

00:52:16   be us acting like we're recording if [TS]

00:52:19   that makes any sense like we may be kind [TS]

00:52:21   of a little more casual and not really [TS]

00:52:22   expect some of that to go in the show [TS]

00:52:23   but you know I give Marco an mp3 each [TS]

00:52:26   and every week that's roughly two and a [TS]

00:52:29   half to three hours long and you know [TS]

00:52:31   the released episodes are anywhere from [TS]

00:52:34   an hour and a half to like two hours [TS]

00:52:36   usually yeah it's more like than 1:45 to [TS]

00:52:40   2:15 yeah but that's the simple answer [TS]

00:52:42   so Marco what's the real answer I mean [TS]

00:52:45   it's you know basically if you figure [TS]

00:52:46   out from what you said like you know we [TS]

00:52:47   do usually record for about two and a [TS]

00:52:49   half hours the finished episode has six [TS]

00:52:53   minutes of ads plus the theme song which [TS]

00:52:54   is about a minute long so you figure I [TS]

00:52:56   have about seven minutes of added [TS]

00:52:58   content that isn't part of the live [TS]

00:53:00   recording and a two and a half hour show [TS]

00:53:02   so that's about two hours and 37 minutes [TS]

00:53:04   of total content before cutting and then [TS]

00:53:07   the show is about you know 1:45 to 2:15 [TS]

00:53:09   so you figure I'm cutting you know maybe [TS]

00:53:11   20 minutes now that's not like an even [TS]

00:53:14   20 or 30 minutes to throughout the show [TS]

00:53:16   that I'm cutting it's mostly like [TS]

00:53:18   cutting the first like two or three [TS]

00:53:20   minutes of the call where we're just [TS]

00:53:22   like setting up you know [TS]

00:53:23   hey John here you know his Casey here [TS]

00:53:25   what do you know setting up like this [TS]

00:53:26   crap that nobody ever wants to hear [TS]

00:53:27   about and then after we have decided [TS]

00:53:30   we're done recording we're talking about [TS]

00:53:32   oh let's pick some titles and then maybe [TS]

00:53:34   tell the live listeners oh oh next week [TS]

00:53:36   we're gonna you know we're gonna be [TS]

00:53:37   recording on Tuesday and said Wednesday [TS]

00:53:38   so like you know bookkeeping at the end [TS]

00:53:41   of the show or just kind of like you [TS]

00:53:42   know kind of like casual talking at the [TS]

00:53:44   end but it's not good enough to be in [TS]

00:53:45   the show that's what most of the cutting [TS]

00:53:47   actually is is the beginning and the end [TS]

00:53:50   and don't worry you're not missing much [TS]

00:53:52   I cut it because it isn't very [TS]

00:53:53   interesting it's you know the release [TS]

00:53:56   version of the show contains almost [TS]

00:53:58   everything that we actually say that is [TS]

00:54:00   actually part of the the show as we hear [TS]

00:54:04   it live know almost everything that's in [TS]

00:54:07   the shows in the show is what he's [TS]

00:54:08   trying to say yeah and if it's a show [TS]

00:54:12   where John talks a lot a lot less is cut [TS]

00:54:14   if it's a show where I talk a lot a lot [TS]

00:54:16   more is cut man you can always fix it in [TS]

00:54:18   post right and I do moving on so there's [TS]

00:54:22   a little bit of a kerfuffle earlier this [TS]

00:54:24   week we're recording this on Wednesday [TS]

00:54:25   evening and and there has just been [TS]

00:54:29   released a patch for a rather unique bug [TS]

00:54:34   that has sprung up in High Sierra and I [TS]

00:54:38   never actually tried it but my [TS]

00:54:41   understanding is if you go into system [TS]

00:54:44   preferences and I think into security [TS]

00:54:46   and then you click the lock and hit [TS]

00:54:48   enter and then enter the username root [TS]

00:54:50   and an empty password and try that and [TS]

00:54:53   you know you might have to do this dance [TS]

00:54:55   a little bit but eventually you will get [TS]

00:54:57   to the point that suddenly you have set [TS]

00:55:01   the root password on that High Sierra [TS]

00:55:03   installed for Macintosh and that is a [TS]

00:55:07   problem because if you're not familiar [TS]

00:55:08   root is basically the god account on any [TS]

00:55:12   UNIX based system and so if you can [TS]

00:55:16   finagle root access to a computer then a [TS]

00:55:20   Mac I should say then you basically can [TS]

00:55:23   do anything you want and this is a bit [TS]

00:55:27   of an issue and there are a little bit [TS]

00:55:30   you know I think most people have a [TS]

00:55:32   little bit of a problem with the way in [TS]

00:55:33   which it was publicized which was via [TS]

00:55:35   tweet which is not tear [TS]

00:55:36   I believe responsible but we don't know [TS]

00:55:38   what happened before then maybe it was [TS]

00:55:40   responsibly disclosed somebody then [TS]

00:55:41   eventually had discovered that about a [TS]

00:55:44   two weeks ago this was posted in Apple's [TS]

00:55:47   own developer forums which is kind of [TS]

00:55:49   amusing and Patrick Warhol has done a [TS]

00:55:53   deep dive into why they think this [TS]

00:55:55   happened but that's kind of the setup [TS]

00:55:59   John I presume you particularly have [TS]

00:56:01   many thoughts on this so do you want to [TS]

00:56:03   kind of fill in some of the blanks here [TS]

00:56:04   by the time you hear this this will have [TS]

00:56:06   all been solved for everybody because it [TS]

00:56:10   was about like a day day and a half [TS]

00:56:12   between when this was a widely [TS]

00:56:15   publicized on Twitter and when Apple put [TS]

00:56:18   out the fix for it and not only his [TS]

00:56:21   Apple put out the fix like if you have [TS]

00:56:23   high sierra and you go to software [TS]

00:56:24   update you can get to fix but they will [TS]

00:56:26   start they say starting later today in [TS]

00:56:28   their message which means they probably [TS]

00:56:29   already have done this they're going to [TS]

00:56:31   forcibly push this fix out to everybody [TS]

00:56:33   running high sierra like you won't have [TS]

00:56:35   to run software update you won't have to [TS]

00:56:36   check for updates you won't have to [TS]

00:56:37   click a button it will just go out and [TS]

00:56:40   you don't need to reboot either will [TS]

00:56:41   just go out onto your computer and [TS]

00:56:43   that's the mechanism apple's used a [TS]

00:56:45   couple times in the past i think the [TS]

00:56:47   only one that i could remember and I [TS]

00:56:49   think when the dates no if you remember [TS]

00:56:51   as well is the NTP bug but they're the [TS]

00:56:53   time server thing they also pushed out [TS]

00:56:56   but they have it's I'm assuming it's [TS]

00:56:58   either the same exact or very similar to [TS]

00:57:00   the mechanism they have for pushing out [TS]

00:57:03   updates to malware which they also do [TS]

00:57:05   without you having to do anything behind [TS]

00:57:07   the scenes without any other updates [TS]

00:57:10   like they will push the malware updates [TS]

00:57:11   and I have no idea when those are [TS]

00:57:12   happening because who would know I guess [TS]

00:57:13   you could just if the malware definition [TS]

00:57:15   file and see when it changes but anyway [TS]

00:57:18   if you're listening to this now and [TS]

00:57:20   you're using a Mac with High Sierra and [TS]

00:57:22   you're connected to the network this [TS]

00:57:23   problem should be solved for you unless [TS]

00:57:25   of course the fix causes problems which [TS]

00:57:27   for some people it has apparently it's [TS]

00:57:28   possible for the fix itself which was [TS]

00:57:30   rolled out in a day to cause problems [TS]

00:57:33   with doing file sharing and there's a [TS]

00:57:35   fix for the fix which Apple also has a [TS]

00:57:37   tech note for that you can run some [TS]

00:57:38   other command and that will fix their [TS]

00:57:40   fix which is why usually fixes don't [TS]

00:57:42   come out 24 hours after a problem was [TS]

00:57:45   discovered [TS]

00:57:46   the root cause stuff is interesting it's [TS]

00:57:48   difficult the the the thing that Patrick [TS]

00:57:51   Ward wrote wrote up because he doesn't [TS]

00:57:53   have the source code to all parts of the [TS]

00:57:55   operating system so he's like [TS]

00:57:56   disassembling it which is a heroic [TS]

00:57:57   effort you know disassemble often [TS]

00:57:59   without any symbols to try to figure out [TS]

00:58:00   what Beck is going on that has the [TS]

00:58:03   updated that's right I don't know but [TS]

00:58:04   anyway what it looked like when I read [TS]

00:58:06   this post earlier today was that it was [TS]

00:58:08   the programmer making a classic mistake [TS]

00:58:11   of getting confused about what the [TS]

00:58:14   return value means from a function [TS]

00:58:16   there's multiple schools of thought and [TS]

00:58:18   multiple cultures on what return values [TS]

00:58:21   mean in terms of what indicates success [TS]

00:58:23   or failure the sort of UNIX system call [TS]

00:58:25   kind of way is zero indicate success in [TS]

00:58:29   anything it's not zero indicate some [TS]

00:58:30   form of failure but they're also Hall [TS]

00:58:32   there's wasup all their api's in other [TS]

00:58:35   domains where a true value or one or [TS]

00:58:38   some boolean or something like that and [TS]

00:58:40   to get success and a false value or a [TS]

00:58:42   zero or undefined or whatever means [TS]

00:58:46   failure and those out those conventions [TS]

00:58:48   the opposite of each other and it can be [TS]

00:58:50   very easy when you're programming [TS]

00:58:51   confused about which is which especially [TS]

00:58:53   if you're in some kind of domain like [TS]

00:58:56   your own code that you wrote where [TS]

00:58:57   you're not sure what convention it's [TS]

00:58:58   following or whatever and if you get [TS]

00:59:00   that return value wrong then you may [TS]

00:59:02   proceed as if something has failed and [TS]

00:59:03   it succeeded or vice versa and you can [TS]

00:59:06   read the the root cause it's you know [TS]

00:59:08   it's a it's a series of things that stem [TS]

00:59:10   from that where you know max come by [TS]

00:59:14   default with the root account disabled [TS]

00:59:15   and this thing accidentally enables it [TS]

00:59:17   and it enables it and sets the password [TS]

00:59:19   to whatever you wrote in a text box [TS]

00:59:20   which is an empty string and then from [TS]

00:59:22   that point on if you try to log in again [TS]

00:59:23   with the empty string it succeeds the [TS]

00:59:25   second time because the first time it [TS]

00:59:26   enabled both enabled the account is set [TS]

00:59:27   at empty string it's just you know [TS]

00:59:30   typical with these type of bugs lots of [TS]

00:59:32   things have to go wrong for it to to [TS]

00:59:34   fall down but I'm assuming the fix was [TS]

00:59:37   fairly straightforward but apparently [TS]

00:59:38   not because it worked everyone's file [TS]

00:59:40   sharing who knows maybe it had to do [TS]

00:59:42   with applying effects without restarting [TS]

00:59:43   which is not something that normally [TS]

00:59:45   happens with security updates or maybe [TS]

00:59:48   it does I don't know I don't keep track [TS]

00:59:49   of like when you get a security update [TS]

00:59:50   and a software update does it require [TS]

00:59:52   restart all the time not all the time [TS]

00:59:54   yeah maybe not for all them I guess it [TS]

00:59:56   depends on what it's patching if you can [TS]

00:59:57   just kill a patch a demon and then kill [TS]

00:59:58   it and though [TS]

00:59:58   it and though [TS]

01:00:00   in itself anyway this is a bad one this [TS]

01:00:03   is pretty much as bad as a local exploit [TS]

01:00:05   can get and it was it was a local [TS]

01:00:07   exploit that was remote a bowl because [TS]

01:00:09   if you have screen sharing enabled like [TS]

01:00:11   the local exploit suddenly becomes a [TS]

01:00:13   remote because the exploit itself is [TS]

01:00:15   that it allows you to log in as root [TS]

01:00:18   with no password if the root account is [TS]

01:00:20   disabled I also believe that the fix [TS]

01:00:22   they push out disables the root account [TS]

01:00:25   again and maybe they had to do that just [TS]

01:00:28   because they're afraid everyone enabled [TS]

01:00:29   it it do is you know by the way the [TS]

01:00:30   workaround for this was oh and abled the [TS]

01:00:32   root count and actually settle a jetpack [TS]

01:00:33   which is why I thought I'm totally [TS]

01:00:35   invulnerable not the least of which [TS]

01:00:37   because I'm running elcapitan but anyway [TS]

01:00:39   I always I always enabled the root [TS]

01:00:41   account on all my Macs and I always set [TS]

01:00:43   a password on it you know because I used [TS]

01:00:45   the root account to do a unity stuff so [TS]

01:00:46   even though max ship with the root [TS]

01:00:48   account disabled one of the first things [TS]

01:00:49   that do is enable it and set a password [TS]

01:00:51   and do all that stuff so I thought I [TS]

01:00:53   didn't have to worry about but actually [TS]

01:00:54   checks my wife's computer and for [TS]

01:00:56   whatever reason I guess it's because [TS]

01:00:57   when we got it as a new computer I never [TS]

01:00:59   did any of the unity stuff over on it [TS]

01:01:00   she did have the really can't disable [TS]

01:01:02   Dom anyway this update the fix will [TS]

01:01:05   reduce able the root account so if you [TS]

01:01:06   don't want through it he can't disable [TS]

01:01:08   to re-enable it set a strong password on [TS]

01:01:10   it and you'll be back so yeah this is a [TS]

01:01:13   bad one [TS]

01:01:14   and because this is a fairly terrible [TS]

01:01:20   error and a one day 24 hour turnaround [TS]

01:01:22   time of the fix and also some other [TS]

01:01:24   things lots of people are attaching [TS]

01:01:26   various levels significance to this [TS]

01:01:28   there's a lot of threads going around [TS]

01:01:30   revisiting you know apples quality [TS]

01:01:32   control as is it going downhill this [TS]

01:01:34   never would happen if Steve was alive [TS]

01:01:36   blah blah blah [TS]

01:01:38   I guess we can talk about that a little [TS]

01:01:40   bit but the one thing that's brought to [TS]

01:01:41   mind immediately and I didn't spend much [TS]

01:01:44   time googling this tomato miss [TS]

01:01:45   remembering it but almost this exact [TS]

01:01:47   same bug was on the Mac back in the days [TS]

01:01:51   when Steve was running the show and I [TS]

01:01:53   believe it was like on the lockscreen [TS]

01:01:55   like on your laptop or your desktop [TS]

01:01:57   where you get the screen lock and says [TS]

01:01:59   enter your password to unlock the screen [TS]

01:02:01   and all you needed to do was type a [TS]

01:02:04   whole bunch of characters in the in the [TS]

01:02:06   password field until it like overflowed [TS]

01:02:08   some buffer and cause the screensaver to [TS]

01:02:10   crash unlock the screen for you [TS]

01:02:12   hold down I think you could even hold [TS]

01:02:14   down the return key and it would still [TS]

01:02:15   do the same thing I forget I may be [TS]

01:02:17   misremembering maybe people can tell me [TS]

01:02:18   if I'm mr. Mario but um that's the thing [TS]

01:02:21   with security it doesn't you know it [TS]

01:02:22   doesn't matter how silly the mistake is [TS]

01:02:24   silly the programming mistake is right [TS]

01:02:26   if it's in just the wrong place it your [TS]

01:02:29   whole security edifice falls down so I [TS]

01:02:33   actually don't think this security error [TS]

01:02:36   is indicative of any larger problem it [TS]

01:02:41   is just one more like this specific one [TS]

01:02:43   I think it is just one more pebble on [TS]

01:02:47   the pile and what we should be doing is [TS]

01:02:48   counting the pebbles not saying this one [TS]

01:02:50   pebble because there's one pebble exist [TS]

01:02:51   it means therefore this is the world's [TS]

01:02:53   biggest problem the real problem is how [TS]

01:02:55   many pebble or is are there and is the [TS]

01:02:56   pile getting smaller or bigger over time [TS]

01:02:58   that's what people need to talk about [TS]

01:02:59   and I suppose this pebble is a little [TS]

01:03:01   bit bigger than normal but it was also [TS]

01:03:03   fixed much quicker than normal and it's [TS]

01:03:04   kind of understandable I don't know [TS]

01:03:06   anyway the question that most piqued my [TS]

01:03:09   interest that I saw come up about this I [TS]

01:03:11   forget if it was in a slack or untoward [TS]

01:03:13   or whatever but I want to ask you to see [TS]

01:03:15   what you think is someone was asking is [TS]

01:03:17   this a fireable offense and if so who [TS]

01:03:20   should be fired I don't I mean if it was [TS]

01:03:24   put there intentionally sure yeah it was [TS]

01:03:26   like you know is the NSA paid some [TS]

01:03:28   Engineer to go inject a weakness sure [TS]

01:03:30   but that was probably not what happened [TS]

01:03:33   here like this the nature of this bug [TS]

01:03:35   from some little we know about it from [TS]

01:03:38   mostly thing that disassembly the it [TS]

01:03:39   doesn't seem like it's that kind of bug [TS]

01:03:42   this unless it was intentionally done I [TS]

01:03:45   would say no this is not a fireable [TS]

01:03:48   offense it you know this is software [TS]

01:03:51   people make mistakes all the time [TS]

01:03:53   this really honestly could have been a [TS]

01:03:56   single line of code mistake and if [TS]

01:04:00   that's all it was then it's just part of [TS]

01:04:03   doing the job and and for the record [TS]

01:04:04   John I'm with you like you know people [TS]

01:04:08   look at me to amplify a lot of Apple [TS]

01:04:11   regs these days because I do that [TS]

01:04:12   sometimes but I don't think this is [TS]

01:04:16   alone you know in isolation I'm not [TS]

01:04:18   freaked out about this like yeah it's a [TS]

01:04:20   bad security bug it got fixed that's [TS]

01:04:22   what's supposed to happen any OS even [TS]

01:04:25   i OS raffle puts all their resources you [TS]

01:04:28   know any OS has occasional security bugs [TS]

01:04:31   of this magnitude and if if it's being [TS]

01:04:34   properly cared for they get fixed simple [TS]

01:04:37   as that [TS]

01:04:38   that's the nature of very very complex [TS]

01:04:41   modern software you're gonna have [TS]

01:04:43   problems as long as they get fixed [TS]

01:04:45   everything's working you know as as it [TS]

01:04:48   always does [TS]

01:04:48   so this particular bug I don't think as [TS]

01:04:52   a sign of anything big I think it was [TS]

01:04:54   handled as well as it could have been [TS]

01:04:55   handled although it is a little worrying [TS]

01:04:57   how long ago people are talking about on [TS]

01:04:58   the forums and nobody seemed to notice [TS]

01:05:00   but you know it security bugs like that [TS]

01:05:04   like who knows if the right people saw [TS]

01:05:05   that either like people report random [TS]

01:05:08   bugs all the time and random odd [TS]

01:05:10   behavior on forums all the time but [TS]

01:05:13   people also report so much garbage on [TS]

01:05:14   forums that nobody can keep up with [TS]

01:05:16   everything that's posted and who knows [TS]

01:05:18   like if somebody is describing you know [TS]

01:05:20   like on the forums like if you read the [TS]

01:05:21   post that we're allegedly describing [TS]

01:05:23   this problem like if you're some Apple [TS]

01:05:25   employee who's just skimming through [TS]

01:05:26   these posts like you don't know what the [TS]

01:05:28   conditions were on that person's machine [TS]

01:05:29   like maybe something weird was going on [TS]

01:05:31   with their software and some other wit [TS]

01:05:33   like maybe it wasn't your bug [TS]

01:05:34   necessarily so like it's hard to know [TS]

01:05:36   when you're just skimming through forum [TS]

01:05:37   posts what's what people are she talking [TS]

01:05:38   about and if this is a real issue that [TS]

01:05:41   you need to worry about if it's your bug [TS]

01:05:42   or if it's just like some weird thing [TS]

01:05:44   that they did or that they're they're [TS]

01:05:46   recalling badly or describing badly and [TS]

01:05:48   you know so like I don't see anything [TS]

01:05:51   about this bug that is caused for [TS]

01:05:52   massive concern on any kind of real [TS]

01:05:55   scale I see lots of other ways for [TS]

01:05:57   concern for Apple but but this is not [TS]

01:05:59   one of those things and to go back to [TS]

01:06:01   the actual question you asked once again [TS]

01:06:02   to summarize know this would not be as [TS]

01:06:04   long as it was done unintentionally this [TS]

01:06:06   is not a fireable offense this is just [TS]

01:06:07   developing software yeah yeah I agree I [TS]

01:06:09   don't think this is fireable unless it [TS]

01:06:11   was a deliberate backdoor and I I don't [TS]

01:06:14   think that it was and there's I've seen [TS]

01:06:18   some people that are really up in arms [TS]

01:06:20   about the fact that on Apple's own dev [TS]

01:06:22   forums this was reported and nobody [TS]

01:06:25   noticed not you know I was you know [TS]

01:06:27   cracking wise about it earlier but the [TS]

01:06:29   reality the situation is like look at [TS]

01:06:31   radar so as much as I also crack wise [TS]

01:06:33   and lament radar that is a a [TS]

01:06:37   never-ending [TS]

01:06:39   a tidal wave of new information that [TS]

01:06:42   Apple as a company needs to sort through [TS]

01:06:44   and if you look at radar which has a [TS]

01:06:48   fairly high in my opinion cost of entry [TS]

01:06:51   in terms of like who's really gonna file [TS]

01:06:54   a radar not any normal Schmo it's gonna [TS]

01:06:56   be a super nerd developer who actually [TS]

01:06:58   is silly enough to spend the time doing [TS]

01:07:00   it so you think about this insert just [TS]

01:07:04   insurmountable wave of information [TS]

01:07:06   coming off radar [TS]

01:07:07   which is Apple's internal bug well the [TS]

01:07:09   internal / external bug reporting tool [TS]

01:07:11   and then amplify that like by several [TS]

01:07:14   orders of magnitude and that's that's a [TS]

01:07:15   forum so there is no way that anyone [TS]

01:07:18   well I can't imagine anyone's cruising [TS]

01:07:21   the forums looking for reports of [TS]

01:07:22   security vulnerabilities like that's [TS]

01:07:24   just not a thing so as much as I joke [TS]

01:07:27   about how it was reported on Apple's own [TS]

01:07:29   forums and they should have noticed like [TS]

01:07:30   no they shouldn't have and and they've [TS]

01:07:33   turned around to fix as quickly as [TS]

01:07:34   possible I wish they Qaid the fix a [TS]

01:07:36   little better because up until a few [TS]

01:07:38   minutes ago and one of you mentioned it [TS]

01:07:39   I didn't even realize the fix needed a [TS]

01:07:40   fix but you know they're trying to do [TS]

01:07:43   right by everyone and trying to get this [TS]

01:07:45   right as quickly as possible and I think [TS]

01:07:49   to my eyes and maybe it's easy for me to [TS]

01:07:52   say this because I'm hugely biased as a [TS]

01:07:54   developer but I feel like yes the root [TS]

01:07:56   cause of this was a developer making an [TS]

01:07:58   oops but this to me is more I'm more [TS]

01:08:01   alarmed by the QA process than I am the [TS]

01:08:05   developer that made the UPS because this [TS]

01:08:08   seems like the sort of thing that I feel [TS]

01:08:12   like it should have been caught in in [TS]

01:08:13   Quality Assurance and clearly it wasn't [TS]

01:08:16   and and that that's the thing that [TS]

01:08:19   scares me a little bit but somewhere [TS]

01:08:21   they hiss they made a statement to [TS]

01:08:22   several outlets including I'm or and I [TS]

01:08:25   don't have it in front of me but they [TS]

01:08:26   basically said that they're going to [TS]

01:08:27   provide a write-up of what happened is [TS]

01:08:29   that right what do you know what I'm [TS]

01:08:30   talking about they said they were gonna [TS]

01:08:32   do basically a post-mortem and and talk [TS]

01:08:34   about it if I'm not mistaken I had the [TS]

01:08:36   Apple statement in the notes but it [TS]

01:08:37   doesn't say anything about that we are [TS]

01:08:39   auditing our development process to [TS]

01:08:41   Oprah helped prevent this from happening [TS]

01:08:42   ever again I could have sworn they said [TS]

01:08:44   they were going to talk about it [TS]

01:08:45   publicly but I guess not I think they [TS]

01:08:46   just did that's probably the extent that [TS]

01:08:49   we were going to hear about it but but [TS]

01:08:51   you know honestly I [TS]

01:08:53   like unless it was intentional sabotage [TS]

01:08:55   I don't think the cause for this is [TS]

01:08:58   going to be very interesting it's just [TS]

01:09:00   yeah somebody messed up it could like [TS]

01:09:02   you know it you know like the goto fail [TS]

01:09:04   bug from a couple years back that was [TS]

01:09:06   most likely a random copy and paste or [TS]

01:09:09   like you know a bad merge like it's [TS]

01:09:11   possible that somebody you know [TS]

01:09:13   maliciously put that there - you know [TS]

01:09:15   for NSA purposes that to make it look [TS]

01:09:18   like an accidental bug that's possible [TS]

01:09:20   but that's a lot less likely than just [TS]

01:09:23   somebody messed up because it's software [TS]

01:09:25   people mess up all the time that's why [TS]

01:09:28   you have to have systems in place to be [TS]

01:09:29   able to update things and patch things [TS]

01:09:31   because you know it's gonna happen and [TS]

01:09:33   no matter how many tests Casey writes [TS]

01:09:35   for you it's still gonna be you're asked [TS]

01:09:45   about the firing thing just because it [TS]

01:09:46   was a sentiment that I saw a lot of [TS]

01:09:49   people discussing and it seemed to me [TS]

01:09:51   that a lot of discussions centered [TS]

01:09:54   around people arguing about who should [TS]

01:09:55   be far like oh the programmer made the [TS]

01:09:57   mistakes should be fired and no the [TS]

01:09:58   Quality Assurance you know actually [TS]

01:10:00   neither one of those people shrimp hard [TS]

01:10:01   should be their manager no it should be [TS]

01:10:03   Tim Cook like you know who is ultimately [TS]

01:10:04   responsible and how do we make people [TS]

01:10:06   accountable and there was you know kind [TS]

01:10:09   of a test last trick question for you [TS]

01:10:11   two would you both got what I think is [TS]

01:10:13   the right answer but B both write [TS]

01:10:15   software so I think that's why but like [TS]

01:10:16   when people are angry about something [TS]

01:10:19   like you don't have to be particularly [TS]

01:10:22   technically savvy or into the details of [TS]

01:10:24   computers or a program or anything to [TS]

01:10:25   understand how bad this bug is you know [TS]

01:10:27   cuz it's just it seems like one of those [TS]

01:10:29   bugs that if we saw it in a movie would [TS]

01:10:30   be like that's ridiculous thank you [TS]

01:10:32   that's so fake couldn't come up with a [TS]

01:10:34   better looking bug it's just comically [TS]

01:10:37   you know just like just hit return a [TS]

01:10:39   second time and now you're in it's [TS]

01:10:41   almost as bad as well like when Windows [TS]

01:10:42   98 would have a login password up on [TS]

01:10:45   screen you just hit cancel and just [TS]

01:10:46   appreciate it but the log yeah that [TS]

01:10:49   someone showed the old video of the [TS]

01:10:50   windows 95 one where you could hit that [TS]

01:10:51   question mark to get the help screen and [TS]

01:10:53   eventually navigate your way to like a [TS]

01:10:54   to the open save dialog box and just [TS]

01:10:56   open my computer at least that one was a [TS]

01:11:01   little bit complicated but yeah this one [TS]

01:11:02   is ridiculous but but for all situations [TS]

01:11:04   again excluding intent [TS]

01:11:06   sabotage which is I think the only [TS]

01:11:08   reason anybody anywhere in Apple should [TS]

01:11:11   be fired for this is intentional [TS]

01:11:13   sabotage or gross negligence [TS]

01:11:15   I think intentional said based on what [TS]

01:11:18   I've seen at this specific bug of like [TS]

01:11:19   what it looks like from the disassembly [TS]

01:11:20   of the code it's not gross negligence [TS]

01:11:22   it's it's a you know a common it looks [TS]

01:11:24   like a common mistake easy easy to get [TS]

01:11:26   even you know the QA people shouldn't be [TS]

01:11:28   fired you know Craig federighi shouldn't [TS]

01:11:30   be fired no one should be fired for this [TS]

01:11:32   and the reason no one should fire for [TS]

01:11:33   this is like it's not just about [TS]

01:11:34   software I mean it's something [TS]

01:11:35   experiences all for just because [TS]

01:11:36   software is a realm where even the very [TS]

01:11:39   best practitioners make mistakes all the [TS]

01:11:40   time that is the nature of the work [TS]

01:11:42   right which is often the source of [TS]

01:11:44   ridicule but if you're an actual program [TS]

01:11:45   where you understand why but put [TS]

01:11:46   programming aside in any sort of group [TS]

01:11:50   effort any environment where someone [TS]

01:11:53   would be fired for an honest mistake [TS]

01:11:54   like this regardless of the impact is [TS]

01:11:57   not an environment that that it's not a [TS]

01:11:59   safe environment for people to grow and [TS]

01:12:01   improve their skills like you have it's [TS]

01:12:04   a it is a hostile organization you [TS]

01:12:06   should never want to work for someplace [TS]

01:12:08   that would fire you because you made an [TS]

01:12:09   honest mistake in a book like that's not [TS]

01:12:12   your fault and it's not like the Quality [TS]

01:12:14   Assurance people's fault now if you make [TS]

01:12:16   a series of these errors eventually yes [TS]

01:12:17   executives should be fired or you know [TS]

01:12:20   changed or whatever but like an [TS]

01:12:21   individual contributor in any part of [TS]

01:12:24   the organization who makes an honest [TS]

01:12:25   mistake shouldn't be fired for that [TS]

01:12:27   honest mistake just because that one [TS]

01:12:28   happened to be in just the wrong place [TS]

01:12:30   right that's not an environment that [TS]

01:12:31   that makes people feel safe to learn and [TS]

01:12:33   grow and it's the organization's job to [TS]

01:12:36   make sure people in roles that are [TS]

01:12:38   suited to their skills and that they're [TS]

01:12:40   supported and that they're you know that [TS]

01:12:42   they have the correct training and [TS]

01:12:43   knowledge to get up to the next level to [TS]

01:12:45   the next thing like that's the [TS]

01:12:46   organization problems it's not the [TS]

01:12:47   individuals problem so in any group of [TS]

01:12:48   people if you're an environment where [TS]

01:12:50   you're like we're gonna be the best [TS]

01:12:51   because if anybody makes any mistake [TS]

01:12:53   they're gonna immediately be fired your [TS]

01:12:54   team you will fire everyone on your team [TS]

01:12:56   and you will only have the worst meanest [TS]

01:12:58   employees who are only good at carefully [TS]

01:13:00   not making mistakes and you will have [TS]

01:13:02   crap people so like I I don't think it [TS]

01:13:04   entered anyone's mind an apple that [TS]

01:13:05   someone was going to get fired over this [TS]

01:13:07   even in the worst moments of anger again [TS]

01:13:09   unless it was sabotage unless it was [TS]

01:13:12   like this is the fifth one of these like [TS]

01:13:14   you know and you know and even then like [TS]

01:13:16   it was the fifth one like you should [TS]

01:13:17   have rotated the person out of that [TS]

01:13:18   position after the first or second one [TS]

01:13:20   instead of [TS]

01:13:20   leave them there so then maybe it's some [TS]

01:13:22   some manager should get fired but this [TS]

01:13:23   is a this is not a long series of these [TS]

01:13:27   terrible security errors or anything [TS]

01:13:29   like that so no I don't think anyone [TS]

01:13:32   should be fired for this um and yeah I [TS]

01:13:34   skipped over the the Developer Forum [TS]

01:13:36   thing that's that's kind of a fun one [TS]

01:13:39   because Apple's developer forms if you [TS]

01:13:41   don't hang out there if you don't hang [TS]

01:13:42   out there you might most likely hit the [TS]

01:13:45   developer forums when you do Google [TS]

01:13:47   search for something and you find all [TS]

01:13:49   the other poor souls posting to the [TS]

01:13:51   developer forums of the exact same [TS]

01:13:52   problem that you have but my [TS]

01:13:54   understanding of the developer forums [TS]

01:13:55   which may be outdated but I think it's [TS]

01:13:56   still current is that it's a place for [TS]

01:13:59   apples customers to go and talk to each [TS]

01:14:02   other about their stuff it's not the [TS]

01:14:04   Genius Bar on the web like it's not a [TS]

01:14:06   place where you go to ask Apple for help [TS]

01:14:08   although Apple people are sometimes [TS]

01:14:09   there and may sometimes be helpful [TS]

01:14:10   that's not like a support channel for [TS]

01:14:13   you to get your thing fixed by Apple [TS]

01:14:15   it's for Apple's customers to talk to [TS]

01:14:17   each other so it's not like Apple [TS]

01:14:21   someone from Apple is not their job to [TS]

01:14:23   read every single post there and what it [TS]

01:14:25   also means is that my impression is a [TS]

01:14:27   lot of the people who are posting there [TS]

01:14:28   are people who are not that into [TS]

01:14:32   computers as a hobby they just want the [TS]

01:14:33   damn computer to work and they end up [TS]

01:14:35   going to Google and trying to say I [TS]

01:14:36   can't my computer work where someplace I [TS]

01:14:38   can talk about this and they end up [TS]

01:14:39   landing at the Apple Developer forums [TS]

01:14:41   they can go you can go there from the [TS]

01:14:42   Apple website find your way there or [TS]

01:14:43   whatever like it's it's a venue for [TS]

01:14:46   people of all kinds to talk about their [TS]

01:14:48   computers it is not a super nerd hangout [TS]

01:14:50   right which means that you get a lot of [TS]

01:14:52   people with very basic problems and [TS]

01:14:54   other people trying to help them who may [TS]

01:14:56   not know all the intricate details and [TS]

01:14:58   if I have to admit if I had read that [TS]

01:15:00   threat and saw someone suggesting here's [TS]

01:15:03   what you can do to figure you know [TS]

01:15:04   someone was locked out of their computer [TS]

01:15:05   I've locked myself out of my computer [TS]

01:15:07   how do I get in and fix it and like [TS]

01:15:09   you'd see a whole bunch of people [TS]

01:15:10   suggesting things and like one of them [TS]

01:15:11   would be like the correct solution of [TS]

01:15:13   like if you really have forgotten your [TS]

01:15:14   password you can reset it in single user [TS]

01:15:15   mode and blah blah blah but there'll be [TS]

01:15:17   a bunch of other people suggesting other [TS]

01:15:18   things and if I had read that thing of [TS]

01:15:20   like oh just go here do this thing at [TS]

01:15:22   the lock icon type root and hit return [TS]

01:15:24   you've got right now I would have [TS]

01:15:24   thought that's not gonna work [TS]

01:15:26   like it maybe it'd work for you because [TS]

01:15:28   you have some weird but like it just is [TS]

01:15:30   obviously someone who's confused and [TS]

01:15:31   they're trying to be helpful but yeah I [TS]

01:15:32   would honestly I wouldn't take it [TS]

01:15:34   seriously because there's so much crap [TS]

01:15:35   so many people other like you know [TS]

01:15:38   they're not there just be nice people [TS]

01:15:39   like here's something try this have you [TS]

01:15:40   tried that this worked for me once right [TS]

01:15:42   and I if I had read that I would never [TS]

01:15:45   in a million years have thought that's [TS]

01:15:47   actually legit like that will actually [TS]

01:15:48   work I wouldn't even have tried it [TS]

01:15:50   wouldn't even thought about trying it [TS]

01:15:51   and I bet if an Apple employee read it [TS]

01:15:53   they'd be like huh yeah I mean if only [TS]

01:15:55   that worked like you just I've rewritten [TS]

01:15:56   every turn with no password yeah nice [TS]

01:15:58   try [TS]

01:15:59   turns out in this one case that actually [TS]

01:16:01   did work and that's terrifying slightly [TS]

01:16:04   and the real scary thing is the person [TS]

01:16:06   who wrote that up a Gruber just posted a [TS]

01:16:07   thing about it because the thread [TS]

01:16:10   continued from there saying where did [TS]

01:16:11   you hear about this he's like oh I heard [TS]

01:16:13   it in some other forum so who knows how [TS]

01:16:15   long as exploit has been out there and [TS]

01:16:16   whatever dark corners of the internet [TS]

01:16:18   that people have known that you could do [TS]

01:16:20   this in high sierra and it's only [TS]

01:16:23   because certainly weeks later but [TS]

01:16:25   possibly even longer who knows they this [TS]

01:16:27   has been there since the original [TS]

01:16:28   release of high sierra maybe it's been [TS]

01:16:29   there since the beta's and people have [TS]

01:16:31   known about it only because it got [TS]

01:16:32   twitter publicity like a day or two ago [TS]

01:16:34   did apple rush to fix it and and you [TS]

01:16:37   know i don't really blame apple for that [TS]

01:16:40   because like i said if i had read this [TS]

01:16:41   in the forums I wouldn't have believed [TS]

01:16:43   either it just sounds it just sounds [TS]

01:16:44   ridiculous yeah and to you know to to [TS]

01:16:49   add to your your discrediting of needing [TS]

01:16:52   to take forum seriously whenever I [TS]

01:16:54   search for a problem with my Apple [TS]

01:16:57   products or software I almost always [TS]

01:17:00   come across a forum link or two to Apple [TS]

01:17:03   support forums and I don't think I can [TS]

01:17:05   come up with any better example of a [TS]

01:17:09   worse ratio of usefulness to times I see [TS]

01:17:12   the page that is that is nonzero like it [TS]

01:17:18   is like the results are usually so [TS]

01:17:20   useless and terrible because it is just [TS]

01:17:23   you know random you know semi lost under [TS]

01:17:26   informed people trying to help each [TS]

01:17:28   other without any help from Apple that [TS]

01:17:30   like I think Yahoo Answers has a higher [TS]

01:17:33   hit rate for me than Apple Support [TS]

01:17:35   Forums [TS]

01:17:35   that's not fair I know it really loves [TS]

01:17:39   with Apple support from things and [TS]

01:17:40   here's what yeah here's what I get [TS]

01:17:41   samples of our arms one I find out if my [TS]

01:17:43   problem is common because if there are a [TS]

01:17:45   million repeated threads but the people [TS]

01:17:47   the same exact problem I am reassured in [TS]

01:17:49   some way right they're like okay now I [TS]

01:17:51   know you know if I don't find any [TS]

01:17:53   matches in the Apple Support Forums I'm [TS]

01:17:54   like oh I probably have bad hardware or [TS]

01:17:56   something like that right but if a [TS]

01:17:57   million people say that they have this [TS]

01:17:59   problem that tells me something in - I [TS]

01:18:01   get to see the the weeks or months of [TS]

01:18:04   people suggesting basically everything [TS]

01:18:06   under the Sun have you tried resetting [TS]

01:18:07   your period have you tried hopping on [TS]

01:18:09   one foot every solution that has ever [TS]

01:18:12   worked for any problem gets to let get [TS]

01:18:14   suggested for all problems right and and [TS]

01:18:16   people reply I tried that it didn't help [TS]

01:18:18   me I tried that it didn't help me and [TS]

01:18:20   very often there is one it says I did [TS]

01:18:22   that and it finally worked and at least [TS]

01:18:24   that gives me it lets me eliminate stuff [TS]

01:18:26   that I know won't work is oh I see [TS]

01:18:27   everyone keep trying this and they're [TS]

01:18:28   not working and then if something does [TS]

01:18:30   work for one person sometimes I can [TS]

01:18:32   backs off to figure out would really [TS]

01:18:34   solve the problem because obviously that [TS]

01:18:35   thing didn't because someone be like [TS]

01:18:36   well I did that exact same thing and I [TS]

01:18:38   didn't solve it like it is super noisy [TS]

01:18:40   but here's the thing that has over Yahoo [TS]

01:18:42   Answers fewer trolls right and much more [TS]

01:18:47   specifically relevant to my needs so I [TS]

01:18:52   think there is the signal-to-noise is [TS]

01:18:54   not great but there is value to be had [TS]

01:18:56   there know granted if you find yourself [TS]

01:18:58   in the Apple Support Forums you were [TS]

01:19:00   probably desperate you're probably they [TS]

01:19:02   have at the bottom of the barrel but I [TS]

01:19:04   thank all those people who spend all [TS]

01:19:06   that time talking back do it for through [TS]

01:19:07   tillage or try to solve problems because [TS]

01:19:09   every once in a while just looking at [TS]

01:19:11   the shape that they've traced around [TS]

01:19:13   this problem of all the things they've [TS]

01:19:14   tried I can find my way to a solution [TS]

01:19:16   that actually works for me [TS]

01:19:18   so user Rachael broth in the chat said [TS]

01:19:21   Apple Support Forums [TS]

01:19:23   the problem you are experiencing doesn't [TS]

01:19:25   exist / that's the way it's supposed to [TS]

01:19:27   work [TS]

01:19:27   / here's a copy pasted solution that [TS]

01:19:29   indicates I didn't read your problem [TS]

01:19:32   fantastic summary true that is true and [TS]

01:19:34   Apple people do occasionally post their [TS]

01:19:36   you know well one more thing before we [TS]

01:19:38   leave this topic about like what Apple [TS]

01:19:41   could do to fix this like in in the [TS]

01:19:43   grand scheme of things like any any [TS]

01:19:45   solution that said that takes the form [TS]

01:19:49   program better or let's be smarter or [TS]

01:19:53   let's write fewer bugs is not a solution [TS]

01:19:56   right that's because you look at you do [TS]

01:19:58   a post-mortem in any sort of bug or [TS]

01:20:01   it's like in the future we should be [TS]

01:20:02   better programmers that one then we [TS]

01:20:04   won't make mistakes like this that's not [TS]

01:20:05   a solution right so much to Marco [TS]

01:20:07   chagrin oh the solution to all these [TS]

01:20:09   things involves process and testing and [TS]

01:20:11   quality assurance and and systems and [TS]

01:20:13   you can't have too many of those because [TS]

01:20:15   then you've paralyzed your entire [TS]

01:20:16   organization with a spiderweb of [TS]

01:20:17   bureaucracy but you gotta have a certain [TS]

01:20:19   amount and bugs like this where there's [TS]

01:20:23   not that I'm saying this is a gooey bug [TS]

01:20:25   but there's there is a the way this is [TS]

01:20:28   exploited is through gooey even if the [TS]

01:20:30   problem was actually in a library [TS]

01:20:31   somewhere very often go through you know [TS]

01:20:34   don't get tested well because the [TS]

01:20:36   underlying libraries are tested to show [TS]

01:20:38   they do everything they want to put this [TS]

01:20:39   glue code that calls into the libraries [TS]

01:20:41   and checks the return value that code [TS]

01:20:43   path may only be exercised by someone [TS]

01:20:45   using the GUI and writing good tests [TS]

01:20:47   that that automate the use of GUI there [TS]

01:20:50   are tons of tools that do it but it is [TS]

01:20:51   the hardest kind of testing to do and [TS]

01:20:53   I'm sure Apple does a ton of it like [TS]

01:20:55   they have to they have to do a ton of it [TS]

01:20:56   but if there's gonna be one area of [TS]

01:20:58   testing that is very difficult to be [TS]

01:21:00   comprehensive in and to keep up-to-date [TS]

01:21:02   and to not even have a good concept of [TS]

01:21:04   like coverage for its GUI testing and [TS]

01:21:09   that's you know it's it's not I'm a [TS]

01:21:12   saying they don't have to do it but like [TS]

01:21:13   what would a fix this problem if they [TS]

01:21:15   hadn't automated fuzz testing on this [TS]

01:21:18   exact sort of flow of like you hit the [TS]

01:21:20   lock icon in any system preference and [TS]

01:21:22   you try to get in if they had something [TS]

01:21:25   with fuzz testing that flow one of the [TS]

01:21:26   things in the first test would have been [TS]

01:21:27   rude empty password and hopefully the [TS]

01:21:29   first test would have done that multiple [TS]

01:21:30   times or something like that or any [TS]

01:21:32   other sort of like triggers on the code [TS]

01:21:33   path to make sure you're along the right [TS]

01:21:35   lines and to do preconditions in post [TS]

01:21:37   vision root account is disabled flushed [TS]

01:21:39   s log in root account is still disabled [TS]

01:21:41   like there's so many tests you could see [TS]

01:21:43   that would have caught this and again if [TS]

01:21:44   the post-mortem says I know exactly the [TS]

01:21:46   tests we can write right now the [TS]

01:21:46   boyfriend this exact bug from ever [TS]

01:21:48   happening again that's that doesn't [TS]

01:21:50   solve the problem either you got to go [TS]

01:21:51   much deeper than that and just say how [TS]

01:21:52   do we prevent problems of this kind from [TS]

01:21:54   happening I would imagine that thee [TS]

01:21:56   because the the functional surface area [TS]

01:21:59   of the Mac operating system is so [TS]

01:22:01   incredibly vast if you were to put a [TS]

01:22:02   percentage number on how many code paths [TS]

01:22:05   are are executed as part of the surely [TS]

01:22:09   massive amount of automated testing that [TS]

01:22:11   Apple does in the Mac operating system [TS]

01:22:12   the percentage would be terrified [TS]

01:22:14   small especially when compared to the [TS]

01:22:16   incredible coverage numbers that people [TS]

01:22:17   who get to write like faceless libraries [TS]

01:22:19   do you know like what is the coverage [TS]

01:22:21   chested look like on a small type [TS]

01:22:24   well-maintained really important library [TS]

01:22:26   especially involving the colonel or [TS]

01:22:27   security you can test that thing to [TS]

01:22:30   death like you can just put it in a [TS]

01:22:32   little black box and torture it for it [TS]

01:22:34   like the file system the amount of [TS]

01:22:35   testing they did on AP FS I'm sure was [TS]

01:22:39   astronomical where you could just have [TS]

01:22:41   that thing grinding hour and hour day [TS]

01:22:43   after day random iOS just and then like [TS]

01:22:45   stop at every 300 hours to see if the [TS]

01:22:48   file system is hosed in any way and like [TS]

01:22:50   put auditing and tracing and every [TS]

01:22:51   single step of the process and just run [TS]

01:22:52   that for months and months and years and [TS]

01:22:54   years that's how you update a billion [TS]

01:22:56   phones without anybody know something [TS]

01:22:57   you change their file system right doing [TS]

01:23:00   that same kind of testing for the [TS]

01:23:02   entirety of an operating system [TS]

01:23:03   especially exercising the GUI it could [TS]

01:23:06   be the changes lot is really really hard [TS]

01:23:09   and I think that's you know what what's [TS]

01:23:12   good the actual solution of this if you [TS]

01:23:14   keep like not five long about seventeen [TS]

01:23:16   weiying it is more money more time and [TS]

01:23:19   more money in the mac OS because any [TS]

01:23:21   solution you come up with about like [TS]

01:23:22   let's change our procedures in some [TS]

01:23:24   subtle way it's not as if they're not [TS]

01:23:26   doing assessing because they because [TS]

01:23:27   they're lazy you don't feel like it all [TS]

01:23:29   these things tape people and people cost [TS]

01:23:32   money and it's time and so I hope that [TS]

01:23:35   the outcome of this is to dedicate more [TS]

01:23:37   resources towards you know automated and [TS]

01:23:41   and manual testing of the Mac operating [TS]

01:23:43   system because that's it's the only way [TS]

01:23:46   you're gonna catch more bugs you're [TS]

01:23:47   gonna you're not going to you're not [TS]

01:23:48   going to write fewer bugs by everyone [TS]

01:23:51   suddenly becoming a better programmer [TS]

01:23:52   you just have to catch more bugs and I [TS]

01:23:55   hope that's the solution here we respond [TS]

01:23:58   to this week by hover domain names for [TS]

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01:24:10   and what you're passionate about without [TS]

01:24:12   tying it to whatever publishing platform [TS]

01:24:14   or social network is popular this year [TS]

01:24:15   because that stuff changes over time [TS]

01:24:18   more quickly than you might think [TS]

01:24:19   my first email address was at junior huh [TS]

01:24:21   my first website was at Geocities comm [TS]

01:24:24   you know both seemed huge and invincible [TS]

01:24:26   at the time like things do today [TS]

01:24:28   but these change quickly in this [TS]

01:24:30   business the best thing you can do to [TS]

01:24:32   keep your email address and website [TS]

01:24:33   timeless and future proof and to never [TS]

01:24:36   have to tell anybody [TS]

01:24:37   oh I changed my website or me I changed [TS]

01:24:39   my you my email host this is my new [TS]

01:24:41   email address update your address book [TS]

01:24:42   nobody likes to hear that from anybody [TS]

01:24:44   and no one ever I pasted their address [TS]

01:24:45   book the best way to avoid everything to [TS]

01:24:47   do that is to have your own domain name [TS]

01:24:49   and hover is the best place to find buy [TS]

01:24:51   and manage domains there for over 400 [TS]

01:24:54   remain extensions from classics like com [TS]

01:24:56   to all the new fun ones like dot [TS]

01:24:58   plumbing and diamonds they have no [TS]

01:25:00   tricks no shady upsells no scamming [TS]

01:25:02   add-ons they have free who is privacy [TS]

01:25:04   and all sorts of community features like [TS]

01:25:06   hover connect to let you quickly set up [TS]

01:25:07   websites on it without you know having [TS]

01:25:09   to mainly enter a bunch of settings if [TS]

01:25:11   you're a power usually they also offer [TS]

01:25:12   advanced DNS controls and whatever other [TS]

01:25:14   kinds of advanced controls you might [TS]

01:25:15   need and they have customer support that [TS]

01:25:17   is top-notch in case you need any help [TS]

01:25:19   with any of this I manage most of my [TS]

01:25:21   domains at hover and it is a breeze you [TS]

01:25:23   want your domain registrar to be really [TS]

01:25:26   easy to use for like that first hour [TS]

01:25:28   that you have to use it and then you [TS]

01:25:29   never want to have to think about it [TS]

01:25:30   again and that's what hover it gives me [TS]

01:25:32   it's wonderful it just works it served [TS]

01:25:34   my needs perfectly and I don't really [TS]

01:25:36   have to think about it most of the time [TS]

01:25:37   it's fantastic so go to hover comm slash [TS]

01:25:40   ATP to learn more and get 10% off your [TS]

01:25:43   first purchase hover get a domain name [TS]

01:25:46   for what you're passionate about I think [TS]

01:25:51   also the general bugginess in many ways [TS]

01:25:54   of high sierra which was ostensibly a [TS]

01:25:57   bug fixing release or a refinement [TS]

01:26:00   release of the OS I think more clearly [TS]

01:26:03   than ever shows that the annual release [TS]

01:26:07   cycle that Apple has pushed for for all [TS]

01:26:10   their platform to the last few years [TS]

01:26:12   that this is as inappropriate as ever [TS]

01:26:16   for Mac OS that the annual recycle makes [TS]

01:26:18   tons of sense for iOS where it's in this [TS]

01:26:21   hyper-competitive space and it's moving [TS]

01:26:23   quickly and it's still you know a [TS]

01:26:24   relatively young or although not by much [TS]

01:26:26   now the operating system but on Mac OS [TS]

01:26:29   like it seems like the faster they go on [TS]

01:26:32   Mac OS the the worse the quality [TS]

01:26:34   problems get and no one on the Mac is [TS]

01:26:38   clamoring for this to be updated every [TS]

01:26:39   year like [TS]

01:26:40   no one on the Mac if anything people [TS]

01:26:43   like please stop touching this because [TS]

01:26:45   you keep breaking it so I really I hope [TS]

01:26:48   that that's not you know I I know what I [TS]

01:26:51   asked for [TS]

01:26:52   with the Mac is often unrealistic and [TS]

01:26:54   unlikely to happen with with modern-day [TS]

01:26:57   Apple but I really think the annual [TS]

01:27:00   release cycle if it even makes sense for [TS]

01:27:02   iOS which it probably does it definitely [TS]

01:27:04   does not make sense for Mac OS and also [TS]

01:27:07   it's making mac OS worse the Mac is is [TS]

01:27:10   so D prioritized in the company now and [TS]

01:27:14   I'm and I'm not even gonna argue right [TS]

01:27:16   now whether that should or shouldn't be [TS]

01:27:17   the case [TS]

01:27:18   that's not for this episode but it is so [TS]

01:27:21   D prioritized and seemingly d resourced [TS]

01:27:24   in the company these days that by having [TS]

01:27:27   it on a very aggressive release cycle to [TS]

01:27:31   keep up I guess with like marketing [TS]

01:27:32   features for everything else they're [TS]

01:27:33   doing you're dooming it to being more [TS]

01:27:36   buggy over time you're dooming it to [TS]

01:27:38   having rush jobs done even this like [TS]

01:27:40   ostensibly bug fix release of high [TS]

01:27:42   sierra they did major changes into the [TS]

01:27:45   hood like the new window server it's a [TS]

01:27:47   huge thing I think my my lcd font [TS]

01:27:49   rendering disabling checkbox is still [TS]

01:27:51   broken even intent whatever dot one I [TS]

01:27:54   I'm hoping they fix it in dot two but [TS]

01:27:56   I'm not holding my breath on that one [TS]

01:27:58   like there's so much about High Sierra [TS]

01:28:00   that has been broken and Sierra honestly [TS]

01:28:03   wasn't that much better before that it [TS]

01:28:06   wasn't it wasn't that one before that [TS]

01:28:07   word that we had Discovery diva what was [TS]

01:28:08   that was that El Cap or whatever came [TS]

01:28:10   after that you somebody I lost track of [TS]

01:28:12   all these mountains but you can't have a [TS]

01:28:15   very aggressive software release [TS]

01:28:16   schedule and also have it be like a low [TS]

01:28:19   priority that you're gonna not give it a [TS]

01:28:21   whole lot of staff and time to to [TS]

01:28:23   develop things well on it the amount of [TS]

01:28:26   resources that Apple is devoting to Mac [TS]

01:28:29   OS can't keep up with a one-year release [TS]

01:28:31   cycle and maintain quality they have to [TS]

01:28:34   either dramatically increase the [TS]

01:28:35   priority of Mac OS and the company which [TS]

01:28:37   i think is very unlikely or slow it down [TS]

01:28:40   and only do it every two years like they [TS]

01:28:42   used to because they what what they are [TS]

01:28:44   doing right now is resulting in more bad [TS]

01:28:47   software I was just thinking that if [TS]

01:28:49   they actually did go to a two-year [TS]

01:28:50   schedule I don't care enough about the [TS]

01:28:52   Mac to updated every year [TS]

01:28:54   which you know it's a double-edged sword [TS]

01:28:55   and I kind of understand why they do you [TS]

01:28:57   I continue to believe that they can [TS]

01:28:58   successfully do yearly releases if they [TS]

01:29:01   scope them right and you know that and [TS]

01:29:03   like I said I feel like they do have to [TS]

01:29:05   put more resources towards it but if [TS]

01:29:08   they went to two years I'd be fine and [TS]

01:29:10   in the past they weren't at two years [TS]

01:29:12   they were like accidentally like 18 [TS]

01:29:13   months and the sort of bumpy schedule [TS]

01:29:15   like whenever they got around to it they [TS]

01:29:16   kind of spread out like I did a graph in [TS]

01:29:18   one of my old reviews of the time [TS]

01:29:20   between releases but this year cadence [TS]

01:29:22   has been you know that's that's been [TS]

01:29:24   their decision they're gonna they're [TS]

01:29:25   going to meet the yearly schedule and [TS]

01:29:27   their tool for meeting the yearly [TS]

01:29:28   schedule to adjust scope and I think [TS]

01:29:30   they have been adjusting scope pushing [TS]

01:29:31   things out of releases but I think [TS]

01:29:33   there's always a temptation to put [TS]

01:29:35   things in releases that are just barely [TS]

01:29:37   like do you think it's ready to be [TS]

01:29:39   released or do we have to boot it out [TS]

01:29:41   you have to make that decision months at [TS]

01:29:42   a time [TS]

01:29:42   and you have to kind of make a call and [TS]

01:29:44   human nature is to say I think the team [TS]

01:29:47   can make it if they work really hard and [TS]

01:29:49   it's you know I think it's gonna be in [TS]

01:29:50   so let's let's leave it let's leave the [TS]

01:29:51   new wooden to server in like it only [TS]

01:29:53   crashes on a few GPUs and I'm sure [TS]

01:29:55   they'll have that worked out by the time [TS]

01:29:56   it releases and it turns out they don't [TS]

01:29:58   have worked up by the time that releases [TS]

01:29:59   and it's like maybe maybe we should have [TS]

01:30:01   kicked that out but on the other hand [TS]

01:30:03   you could say look if you keep kicking [TS]

01:30:04   it out like this like it'll never be so [TS]

01:30:07   ready to go that you feel like you have [TS]

01:30:09   to do it and if you never updated it [TS]

01:30:10   you're gonna be in HFS+ situations so at [TS]

01:30:12   some point you have to actually ship and [TS]

01:30:13   the only way to find all the real bugs [TS]

01:30:15   is to put it out into the real world and [TS]

01:30:16   that's you know that's the nature of [TS]

01:30:18   software and management that's the job [TS]

01:30:19   huh Apple has before it but I do think [TS]

01:30:22   that high sierra does not live up to its [TS]

01:30:25   billing as a Snow Leopard type release [TS]

01:30:29   even though Snow Leopard had more bugs [TS]

01:30:31   than people think it did their memories [TS]

01:30:32   are fuzzy on that but like that doesn't [TS]

01:30:34   live up to the memories of snow leopard [TS]

01:30:36   type release where it is a refinement of [TS]

01:30:38   Sierra that just makes everything better [TS]

01:30:40   and faster it was a refinement of Sierra [TS]

01:30:43   and we did make things better and faster [TS]

01:30:44   but the small number of things they [TS]

01:30:48   changed like they had some bugs of their [TS]

01:30:51   own and lots of long-standing bugs [TS]

01:30:53   didn't get face tech that is what I [TS]

01:30:55   could boils down to like this is the [TS]

01:30:56   thing a lot of people are pointing out [TS]

01:30:57   and all their complaints about bugs and [TS]

01:30:58   that's why I pointed the pile of pebbles [TS]

01:31:00   and the pile pebble is getting bigger [TS]

01:31:01   you have to pay down your tech debt you [TS]

01:31:04   have to address it and say [TS]

01:31:07   bug that Marco's been having for you [TS]

01:31:09   know two releases about his Bluetooth [TS]

01:31:11   randomly disconnecting I know it's a [TS]

01:31:14   pain in the ass to figure it out it's [TS]

01:31:15   unreproducible and he's not filing bart [TS]

01:31:17   reports but just you just gotta figure [TS]

01:31:18   that out if you don't it will just [TS]

01:31:19   linger there forever [TS]

01:31:20   and it will linger there forever [TS]

01:31:22   alongside the new bug that you added as [TS]

01:31:24   part of whatever new feature you had and [TS]

01:31:26   the pile of pebbles gets bigger you go [TS]

01:31:28   out at least keep the pile of pebbles it [TS]

01:31:29   like a manageable size we're not saying [TS]

01:31:31   you have to drive it down to zero it's [TS]

01:31:33   software right you're never gonna drive [TS]

01:31:34   down to zero but if you allow them to [TS]

01:31:36   accumulate and that Polly gets bigger [TS]

01:31:37   every lease people become disillusioned [TS]

01:31:39   right because there's always new bugs [TS]

01:31:41   and your old ones never get fixed and [TS]

01:31:43   it's like why are you even really seeing [TS]

01:31:44   new operates and that's when people say [TS]

01:31:45   let's go to every two years or whatever [TS]

01:31:47   so I think it is possible to do an every [TS]

01:31:50   year release but if if it is easier for [TS]

01:31:53   Apple to go to every two year release [TS]

01:31:54   then they should do that I mean the way [TS]

01:31:57   I look at it is like you know imagine [TS]

01:31:59   like on a smaller scale like I imagine [TS]

01:32:00   like me as a single developer imagine if [TS]

01:32:03   all year I didn't really touch overcast [TS]

01:32:05   I was doing like a thing that was too [TS]

01:32:08   busy to work on overcast and every [TS]

01:32:10   summer I gave myself one week to make a [TS]

01:32:13   new Bigpoint version of it [TS]

01:32:15   and then I could release it fix bugs for [TS]

01:32:18   two days and then I wouldn't be able [TS]

01:32:20   work on anymore until the next summer of [TS]

01:32:21   course the quality would go down of [TS]

01:32:23   course I'd have to like rush to get [TS]

01:32:25   things in there and everything I did [TS]

01:32:27   would be half-baked I wouldn't I [TS]

01:32:28   wouldn't have time to fully bake it I [TS]

01:32:30   wouldn't have enough time afterwards to [TS]

01:32:31   fix bugs bug to just sit around forever [TS]

01:32:33   until the next year when I couldn't fix [TS]

01:32:36   the old bugs I'd have to make new [TS]

01:32:37   features for the new marketing push [TS]

01:32:39   that's I think a pretty good scale model [TS]

01:32:42   how low as 10 feels I see excuse me Mac [TS]

01:32:45   OS how Mac OS feels it feels like most [TS]

01:32:49   people are not able to are allowed to or [TS]

01:32:52   allocated to work on it most of the time [TS]

01:32:54   and what time they get on it seems to be [TS]

01:32:58   limited to marketing features and and [TS]

01:33:01   not fixing bugs and and I think your [TS]

01:33:04   your pebble pile analogy is great and I [TS]

01:33:06   think it's pretty clear that we're going [TS]

01:33:09   in the direction of accumulating more of [TS]

01:33:10   those pebbles over time not fewer like [TS]

01:33:12   the pile is just getting bigger over [TS]

01:33:14   time and that that technical debt is not [TS]

01:33:16   being paid off at at a fast enough rate [TS]

01:33:18   the [TS]

01:33:19   the saddest part about this is that [TS]

01:33:22   nobody is really asking for this like [TS]

01:33:24   Mac users don't need a new OS every year [TS]

01:33:28   we really don't like I'm still on Sierra [TS]

01:33:31   because hi Sierra so buggy I'm a little [TS]

01:33:33   scared to switch to it I only have it on [TS]

01:33:34   the laptop but not my not my main [TS]

01:33:36   computer part of the reason is like why [TS]

01:33:38   why should I switch to it the sales [TS]

01:33:41   pitch for hi Sierra it seems to get [TS]

01:33:42   worse every day [TS]

01:33:43   why should I upgrade exactly why is [TS]

01:33:45   Apple fortunately look right down my [TS]

01:33:46   throat with these notifications and that [TS]

01:33:48   pre downloaded to my system and [TS]

01:33:49   everything like apples pushing really [TS]

01:33:51   really hard to force people to update - [TS]

01:33:53   hi Sierra when it's still in a really [TS]

01:33:56   buggy state which is that alone shows [TS]

01:33:57   pretty bad judgment on Apple's part what [TS]

01:33:59   like what's in it for me as a user and [TS]

01:34:02   not much the only thing I gain from it [TS]

01:34:04   is you know certain things work better [TS]

01:34:07   when all your stuff is on the new OS [TS]

01:34:09   things like certain like handoff [TS]

01:34:11   features or iCloud syncing features [TS]

01:34:12   airdrop you know calendar sync doesn't [TS]

01:34:15   actually work anymore for me thanks a [TS]

01:34:16   lot but for the most part the main [TS]

01:34:18   reason the main motivating reason I have [TS]

01:34:20   to upgrade to High Sierra right now is [TS]

01:34:21   it's the newest OS and my other stuff is [TS]

01:34:25   starting to slowly break because my [TS]

01:34:26   computer is not on the newest OS that's [TS]

01:34:28   it [TS]

01:34:29   there's nothing about High Sierra that I [TS]

01:34:30   actually want because what it comes with [TS]

01:34:33   is all these bugs and all these [TS]

01:34:35   half-baked incomplete features like my [TS]

01:34:37   loss of my lcd font smoothing thing and [TS]

01:34:39   that might get fixed the next version [TS]

01:34:41   but it might not as a Mac user all this [TS]

01:34:44   stuff there changing radically and the [TS]

01:34:47   all these costs we are paying and all [TS]

01:34:49   these big bugs and you know new sub [TS]

01:34:51   systems being rewritten in ways that are [TS]

01:34:53   almost as good as the old ones but [TS]

01:34:54   broken like I didn't ask for that [TS]

01:34:57   I do want Mac OS to move forward and I [TS]

01:35:01   want I really hope that the Mac OS is [TS]

01:35:03   still still has a roadmap ahead of it [TS]

01:35:06   but I don't want it to be done sloppily [TS]

01:35:09   badly and rushed out I'd rather it be [TS]

01:35:11   done slowly and right and to have fewer [TS]

01:35:15   awesome things in each release if that's [TS]

01:35:17   even possible then to have it be done [TS]

01:35:20   half-assed and rushed and then have [TS]

01:35:22   really buggy software come out every [TS]

01:35:24   year and have my system break for four [TS]

01:35:27   months every year in the fall I think [TS]

01:35:29   the most attractive aspect of the [TS]

01:35:31   two-year plan is [TS]

01:35:32   the part that people probably don't [TS]

01:35:34   think about as much but what that would [TS]

01:35:35   mean is imagine like a high sierra [TS]

01:35:38   didn't come out and we were still on [TS]

01:35:39   sierra right what that would mean is [TS]

01:35:41   that Sierra porn releases would continue [TS]

01:35:44   for another year you know 10 12 6 10 12 [TS]

01:35:48   7 10 12 8 10 12 9 and all those point [TS]

01:35:51   releases all those patch level releases [TS]

01:35:53   you know they're not replacing the [TS]

01:35:55   window server in one of those right [TS]

01:35:57   there probably not changing the file [TS]

01:35:59   system but who the hell knows that it on [TS]

01:36:00   10 2 or whatever on iOS right but the [TS]

01:36:03   nature of those point releases tends to [TS]

01:36:05   prevent Apple from doing any big changes [TS]

01:36:07   so what is everybody doing in those [TS]

01:36:09   releases you know what they're doing and [TS]

01:36:10   all those point releases you know as [TS]

01:36:12   that number gets bigger and bigger and [TS]

01:36:13   even goes into double digits as it has [TS]

01:36:15   in the past they're fixing little bugs [TS]

01:36:17   that's all they're doing like that's all [TS]

01:36:18   that like isn't usually you know [TS]

01:36:20   security fixes and bug fixes and the [TS]

01:36:22   bigger that number gets the this sort of [TS]

01:36:25   we all assume the more stable and more [TS]

01:36:28   mature the operating system gets that [TS]

01:36:29   kind of also makes the the big release [TS]

01:36:31   harder like when I think it was like [TS]

01:36:32   tiger or something it was like 10 for 11 [TS]

01:36:34   or something when you get yeah someone [TS]

01:36:36   already said in that chat room when you [TS]

01:36:39   get up that high the challenge for the [TS]

01:36:41   10 5 0 at least for the next major [TS]

01:36:43   version release for the next like newly [TS]

01:36:46   named cat or a California Place release [TS]

01:36:48   is so much higher because it's like we [TS]

01:36:51   have enjoyed this period of peace and [TS]

01:36:53   stability like we've we're up in - we're [TS]

01:36:56   up into the double digits on the last [TS]

01:36:58   number and our versions and everything [TS]

01:36:59   is good and like every little like that [TS]

01:37:02   team that is doing those point releases [TS]

01:37:03   you know and I don't even know it's a [TS]

01:37:05   separate team or whatever but those [TS]

01:37:06   people like they're running out of bugs [TS]

01:37:07   to fix like they're knocking things down [TS]

01:37:08   they're like you know oh you haven't [TS]

01:37:10   some obscure problem with your Bluetooth [TS]

01:37:11   the entire team's going to spend the [TS]

01:37:13   next two months just looking at that [TS]

01:37:14   problem because we have no other bugs to [TS]

01:37:16   fix right we're not on the glory team [TS]

01:37:17   doing the next version and you hope [TS]

01:37:19   those are synchronized with what's [TS]

01:37:21   happening in the in the future or at [TS]

01:37:22   least but inevitably when the point zero [TS]

01:37:24   comes out it's always less stable than [TS]

01:37:26   the other one because that's the one [TS]

01:37:27   that has the big substance replace and [TS]

01:37:28   I'm all for big system subsystem [TS]

01:37:30   replacements I love it which is why I [TS]

01:37:32   just want them to add more money and [TS]

01:37:33   time and developers and still do it that [TS]

01:37:35   way but if we did go to the two-year [TS]

01:37:38   schedule [TS]

01:37:39   I think we would have at least one year [TS]

01:37:41   of peace and prosperity where you know [TS]

01:37:44   the chicken in every pot and [TS]

01:37:45   those bugs are getting fixed and just [TS]

01:37:46   you know the point release has come out [TS]

01:37:48   and we just blindly install them knowing [TS]

01:37:50   that it's just one more bug fixed and [TS]

01:37:52   one more performance improvement and [TS]

01:37:54   everything gets great and so I would I [TS]

01:37:57   could do with a run of double-digit at [TS]

01:38:01   the end of the version numbers see what [TS]

01:38:03   that's like again because those are good [TS]

01:38:04   times I don't disagree about the [TS]

01:38:08   two-year schedule thing but I don't [TS]

01:38:11   understand why two years or a [TS]

01:38:13   lengthening of major releases has to be [TS]

01:38:16   the answer like I feel like just [TS]

01:38:19   different choices even on the same [TS]

01:38:22   cadence would be okay and I and I don't [TS]

01:38:24   think it's fair for us to conjecture [TS]

01:38:26   about what is or is not important to [TS]

01:38:28   Apple internally but certainly from the [TS]

01:38:31   perspective of an outsider like me it [TS]

01:38:34   seems like Apple doesn't value bug free [TS]

01:38:39   software either the same way that they [TS]

01:38:41   did or as much as any of us would like [TS]

01:38:45   them to and I feel like this is starting [TS]

01:38:49   to gain a little traction I feel like [TS]

01:38:52   I'm noticing friends and family rolling [TS]

01:38:54   their eyes and saying oh well that's [TS]

01:38:55   Apple you know and this is more than [TS]

01:38:57   just oh you know screw you autocorrect [TS]

01:38:58   and this is more than just hating on [TS]

01:39:00   Siri which I'm becoming more and more [TS]

01:39:03   interested in as time goes on is a [TS]

01:39:06   dumpster fire but be that as and I don't [TS]

01:39:08   even have an Alexa to compare to I just [TS]

01:39:10   just using Siri has been more and more [TS]

01:39:12   frustrating over time but anyway I feel [TS]

01:39:14   like like my family is starting to get [TS]

01:39:18   frustrated with things that are problems [TS]

01:39:22   that are software problems that are [TS]

01:39:23   coming out of Apple and I feel like if [TS]

01:39:28   from an out from an outsider's [TS]

01:39:30   perspective it appears as though the [TS]

01:39:33   institutional value is way heavier on [TS]

01:39:36   new shiny and I think you guys are both [TS]

01:39:37   saying this is way heavier on new shiny [TS]

01:39:40   than it is on boring but useful [TS]

01:39:44   stability and in the same ways you know [TS]

01:39:48   we said last week you know Jenkins is [TS]

01:39:49   not sexy you know a bug free software to [TS]

01:39:52   most developers especially younger ones [TS]

01:39:54   is not terribly sexy but to us old [TS]

01:39:57   people and now I'll call myself [TS]

01:39:59   old bug free software or as close as you [TS]

01:40:01   can get of course is super sexy and I [TS]

01:40:04   want a lot more of that in my life I [TS]

01:40:06   want to write it better and I want to [TS]

01:40:07   consume it and it just feels like Apple [TS]

01:40:12   hasn't cared about stability as much as [TS]

01:40:17   they appeared to in the past now why is [TS]

01:40:20   that it could be any number of things [TS]

01:40:22   maybe it's that they're spread thin not [TS]

01:40:25   necessarily in terms of people but [TS]

01:40:28   there's just a lot more going on and in [TS]

01:40:30   all of these OS it's like there's a lot [TS]

01:40:32   more stuff like take a silly example [TS]

01:40:34   like handoff like handoff is a thing [TS]

01:40:38   where you can have a device nearby and [TS]

01:40:40   your devices will talk to each other [TS]

01:40:43   I think via iCloud and say and my phone [TS]

01:40:45   will say oh I'm looking at such-and-such [TS]

01:40:47   URL and then my Mac will say hey I see [TS]

01:40:49   your phone is physically nearby and it's [TS]

01:40:51   looking at such-and-such URL would you [TS]

01:40:52   like to open that here like that in and [TS]

01:40:55   of itself does not seem that inherently [TS]

01:40:57   complex and in many ways is very very [TS]

01:41:01   useful but that's adding a complexity [TS]

01:41:04   that none of us had the Apple us you [TS]

01:41:07   know anyone a few years ago and I don't [TS]

01:41:11   know I just feel like as as the OSS have [TS]

01:41:14   been getting more and more and more [TS]

01:41:17   involved and more and more and more [TS]

01:41:18   complex there has not there has not [TS]

01:41:21   appeared to have been a commensurate [TS]

01:41:23   interest in or increase in interest in [TS]

01:41:25   stability and quality assurance and it's [TS]

01:41:28   getting to the point that just a week or [TS]

01:41:31   two ago I wish I remember what I was [TS]

01:41:33   doing or what happened but I thought for [TS]

01:41:36   a fleeting moment like I can't put up [TS]

01:41:39   with this anymore and I want to say it [TS]

01:41:40   was something on my phone and I really [TS]

01:41:42   really really wish I remember what it [TS]

01:41:43   was in for a fleeting moment just for a [TS]

01:41:46   second I thought I can't put up with [TS]

01:41:47   this anymore this shit never works let [TS]

01:41:52   me tell you what you might have been [TS]

01:41:53   thinking of because it's exactly the [TS]

01:41:54   last time I had this thought my wife's [TS]

01:41:56   been unlocking her computer with her [TS]

01:41:57   series three watch because she's got a [TS]

01:41:59   high sierra she's got a 5 K Mac she's [TS]

01:42:01   got a series three Apple watch and doing [TS]

01:42:02   the watch unlock thing and she liked it [TS]

01:42:05   until it stopped working and why did it [TS]

01:42:07   stop working beats the hell out of me [TS]

01:42:09   hdmi cec might as well be my [TS]

01:42:13   well me because that's that thing like [TS]

01:42:15   so that feature was introduced a while [TS]

01:42:16   ago and it was tweaked for High Sierra [TS]

01:42:17   right and this is example of the [TS]

01:42:19   complexity of the case he was talking [TS]

01:42:20   about it's a complicated thing it is [TS]

01:42:21   multiple operating systems muscle [TS]

01:42:23   devices multiple wireless radios and all [TS]

01:42:25   sorts of crap like I it is ferociously [TS]

01:42:28   complicated a complication that never [TS]

01:42:30   existed in the old world well there was [TS]

01:42:31   like one computer there wasn't even [TS]

01:42:32   networked right let alone you know this [TS]

01:42:34   your watch and people walking around and [TS]

01:42:36   radios bouncing and trying to judge [TS]

01:42:38   distances and an authentication system [TS]

01:42:40   like so much opportunity for things to [TS]

01:42:41   go wrong right but it's a feature they [TS]

01:42:44   chose to introduce and I can understand [TS]

01:42:47   it being buggy [TS]

01:42:47   when they first put it out but if this [TS]

01:42:49   is gonna be a feature that you have like [TS]

01:42:52   it you say you know that you we're gonna [TS]

01:42:54   ship this feature you have to be [TS]

01:42:56   committed to keep working on it until it [TS]

01:43:00   works basically all the time because [TS]

01:43:02   otherwise why have the feature because [TS]

01:43:04   features that don't work all the time [TS]

01:43:05   people give up mine like you can't see [TS]

01:43:07   whatever feature you were trying to [TS]

01:43:08   think of you just like I give up like it [TS]

01:43:10   is not that you know they're very [TS]

01:43:12   difficult to debug you're not sure what [TS]

01:43:14   to do you don't know why it isn't [TS]

01:43:16   working and at a certain point you're [TS]

01:43:18   like well just forget it then because if [TS]

01:43:20   it doesn't work all the time I don't [TS]

01:43:22   want to be sitting there and wondering [TS]

01:43:23   why it's not working but it's you know [TS]

01:43:25   it gives you like the message that [TS]

01:43:27   watches it in range or try again or [TS]

01:43:29   whatever it's like I'm sitting right [TS]

01:43:30   here like I always do what's the problem [TS]

01:43:32   maybe I reboot both things and it's like [TS]

01:43:33   no I'm not gonna reboot I'm doing stuff [TS]

01:43:36   I don't want to reboot the computer I [TS]

01:43:37   don't want to reboot my watch I don't [TS]

01:43:39   want to sign out of my class and you [TS]

01:43:40   just give up on it that feature might as [TS]

01:43:42   well not exist right [TS]

01:43:44   it is either gonna work enough that it [TS]

01:43:46   is usable or it's not going to and that [TS]

01:43:49   bar is not met by a lot of things maybe [TS]

01:43:51   Siri is one of those things for a lot of [TS]

01:43:53   people like I talk to Siri sometimes but [TS]

01:43:54   she knows me and doesn't give me answers [TS]

01:43:56   and so I just don't talk to her anymore [TS]

01:43:59   or or I only have her set timers or [TS]

01:44:02   whatever do some sort of limited thing [TS]

01:44:03   and that's that's the kind of failure [TS]

01:44:06   you mentioned stability before I'm [TS]

01:44:07   valuing like bug free software never [TS]

01:44:08   that's kind of failure doesn't show up [TS]

01:44:09   in easy metrics I think Apple software I [TS]

01:44:12   know I've mentioned this before is much [TS]

01:44:13   better about crashing and licking memory [TS]

01:44:15   than it has been in a long time because [TS]

01:44:17   those are easy things to measure but [TS]

01:44:19   these other kind of bugs that are just [TS]

01:44:20   kind of like frustrating nothing crashes [TS]

01:44:23   no data loss but sometimes it doesn't [TS]

01:44:26   work for a next [TS]

01:44:26   a couple reasons and it makes you [TS]

01:44:27   abandon the feature that's really [TS]

01:44:29   difficult for it to show up in Apple's [TS]

01:44:32   metrics you know because Apple is not as [TS]

01:44:34   obsessive as some other yeah as every [TS]

01:44:37   iOS app is about tracking every single [TS]

01:44:39   thing that you do as a user like it's [TS]

01:44:40   not tracking motion and regarding your [TS]

01:44:42   screen or reporting it back to Apple [TS]

01:44:43   they are sending back crash reports and [TS]

01:44:45   stuff like that but and occasionally [TS]

01:44:47   they'll ask you for sister reports for [TS]

01:44:49   bug things but if people give up on a [TS]

01:44:51   feature and don't abusing it Apple [TS]

01:44:53   probably has limited reasons limited [TS]

01:44:55   knowledge of that or if they do not know [TS]

01:44:56   about it they don't know what the cause [TS]

01:44:57   is and I would love to tell Apple hey [TS]

01:44:59   Apple we're about to give up I never [TS]

01:45:01   trying to unlock her computer or their [TS]

01:45:02   watch because it suddenly stopped [TS]

01:45:03   working and I have no idea why and [TS]

01:45:05   that's that's a failure that you know [TS]

01:45:08   probably doesn't even show up on [TS]

01:45:09   customer satellite before and for a day [TS]

01:45:13   or two it worked and it was cool but now [TS]

01:45:14   it doesn't oh well and back to the [TS]

01:45:15   status quo but I think it's a pretty [TS]

01:45:17   massive failure to say look if you're [TS]

01:45:19   gonna have that feature you gotta make [TS]

01:45:20   it work all the time just like typing [TS]

01:45:22   your password and textbox works all the [TS]

01:45:24   time right [TS]

01:45:25   the watch has to be like that too or [TS]

01:45:27   just don't have that feature or have a [TS]

01:45:28   way to debug it or figure something out [TS]

01:45:29   but that that's one of my major sources [TS]

01:45:31   of frustration coincidentally watch [TS]

01:45:34   unlock has been reasonably bulletproof [TS]

01:45:37   for me but but I don't debate anything [TS]

01:45:40   you just said like if that happens to be [TS]

01:45:41   your bug bear then yeah you're [TS]

01:45:43   absolutely right as you were talking I [TS]

01:45:45   thought of a couple of examples of when [TS]

01:45:46   this was infuriating to me [TS]

01:45:50   the first example I'm trying to figure [TS]

01:45:54   out how much depth I want to get into [TS]

01:45:55   here the first example was I went for a [TS]

01:45:57   run on Thanksgiving morning and I did [TS]

01:45:59   that in part because it was a day that I [TS]

01:46:01   would I would normally go for a run if I [TS]

01:46:03   wasn't you know if I hadn't just [TS]

01:46:05   recorded a tipi but beyond that I wanted [TS]

01:46:07   the neat little badge that you get if [TS]

01:46:09   you do 5k walk/run push etc and when I [TS]

01:46:14   did my 5k run I never got my badge and [TS]

01:46:17   it turned out after talking to a lot of [TS]

01:46:21   people some inside Apple some not it [TS]

01:46:23   turned out what had happened was I had [TS]

01:46:25   set my watch and phone to be localized [TS]

01:46:29   to Australia and the reason I did that [TS]

01:46:31   is because I want to be able to have day [TS]

01:46:33   day / month month / year year like it [TS]

01:46:37   should be and still have everything else [TS]

01:46:40   to be the same [TS]

01:46:40   dollar for example now unfortunately I [TS]

01:46:42   get metric in a lot of places and I'm [TS]

01:46:45   not here to debate metric versus [TS]

01:46:46   Imperial which is weird because that's [TS]

01:46:47   one of my favorite pastimes but [TS]

01:46:50   nevertheless I had my phone and watch [TS]

01:46:53   that to metric excuse me set to [TS]

01:46:55   Australia and so understandably [TS]

01:46:58   understandably it makes sense that I [TS]

01:47:00   didn't get an American Thanksgiving [TS]

01:47:01   thing on on a phone and watch that were [TS]

01:47:05   set to Australia now I still disagree [TS]

01:47:09   with it but I understand it like if I'm [TS]

01:47:11   standing in America the thing has a - [TS]

01:47:14   both of these devices have a friggin GPS [TS]

01:47:16   on them they know where I'm standing [TS]

01:47:18   they know where I did that run I can go [TS]

01:47:21   into my health app right now in C the [TS]

01:47:24   route I took that run on so to me this [TS]

01:47:27   is a stupid decision but I can [TS]

01:47:30   understand it nevertheless I finally [TS]

01:47:33   figure out okay that's why and then I [TS]

01:47:36   set my devices to America because I hear [TS]

01:47:40   it's getting great again can't see it [TS]

01:47:42   but that's what I'm told and and so I [TS]

01:47:45   and so I said it to America it stings I [TS]

01:47:49   said it to America and the 2017 badge [TS]

01:47:53   shows up reasonably quickly but the 2016 [TS]

01:47:57   badge which I had also earned from a [TS]

01:47:59   walk is nowhere to be found [TS]

01:48:02   and I learned that if you just wait [TS]

01:48:05   it should magically appear and guess [TS]

01:48:08   what happened and I just waited and then [TS]

01:48:12   friggin magic happen and it magically [TS]

01:48:14   appeared like iCloud is a thing why is [TS]

01:48:19   this not in iCloud like what why is this [TS]

01:48:22   a thing the Apple watch is the Nintendo [TS]

01:48:24   switch of Apple's devices like super [TS]

01:48:26   important data that people care about [TS]

01:48:28   like not actually real world important [TS]

01:48:31   but like important to people kind of [TS]

01:48:33   like you know you're saving Zelda right [TS]

01:48:34   in the grand scheme of things it's not [TS]

01:48:36   important like you're not gonna die from [TS]

01:48:37   it [TS]

01:48:38   right but to people who have sunk you [TS]

01:48:40   know 100 hours into Zelda it is super [TS]

01:48:42   important so those stupid badges on the [TS]

01:48:44   Apple watch for your achievements and [TS]

01:48:45   the grand scheme of things nothing's [TS]

01:48:47   gonna happen to you agreed but people [TS]

01:48:49   are so angry if they go away and so how [TS]

01:48:51   does Apple protect what is perhaps the [TS]

01:48:53   sec [TS]

01:48:54   most valuable pieces of information they [TS]

01:48:56   store first being their actual data but [TS]

01:48:57   the second most valuable one being their [TS]

01:48:59   stupid achievement badges oh we're not [TS]

01:49:00   gonna back that up oh yeah there's a [TS]

01:49:02   million things you can do to lose all [TS]

01:49:03   that information no no we don't care [TS]

01:49:05   about that at all same thing with a [TS]

01:49:06   Nintendo switch like no you know you [TS]

01:49:07   can't back up your data no we won't [TS]

01:49:08   start in the cloud just if you and if [TS]

01:49:10   you switch ties yet you lose all your [TS]

01:49:11   saves it's such a dumb distinct like it [TS]

01:49:15   stems from just I mean Tendo was said [TS]

01:49:17   excusable in Tendo has a history of [TS]

01:49:18   doing stupid things but Apple like I [TS]

01:49:20   don't think they understand exactly how [TS]

01:49:22   seriously people take those badges [TS]

01:49:24   yeah and how how angry how unreasonably [TS]

01:49:27   angry people are when they lose their [TS]

01:49:29   badges that was me I spent half an hour [TS]

01:49:32   running it well ostensibly because I [TS]

01:49:35   want to get healthier but also because I [TS]

01:49:36   wanted that friggin badge yeah you want [TS]

01:49:38   credit dammit you worked hard for that I [TS]

01:49:40   wanted my treat Mac's got his treat so [TS]

01:49:44   anyway the point is is that it's a [TS]

01:49:47   stupid thing just like John said and I [TS]

01:49:49   don't know maybe it is maybe those [TS]

01:49:50   activities or achievements rather are [TS]

01:49:52   synced via iCloud but why did it take [TS]

01:49:54   like 24 or 48 hours for that junk to [TS]

01:49:58   magically come from the cloud onto my [TS]

01:50:00   device I don't I don't think it actually [TS]

01:50:01   is think I think it I don't on device [TS]

01:50:03   and I think they're getting like [TS]

01:50:06   Nintendo they are getting better about a [TS]

01:50:07   Nintendo has actually said they are [TS]

01:50:09   working their way towards same cloud [TS]

01:50:11   backups which it should have had from [TS]

01:50:12   day one I think Apple will eventually [TS]

01:50:15   work on this but judging by how long [TS]

01:50:16   it's taken them to not deliver the [TS]

01:50:19   iCloud message sync that they advertise [TS]

01:50:20   for iOS 11 and again another source of [TS]

01:50:23   like not just people caring about the [TS]

01:50:25   contents of it but just you know [TS]

01:50:26   baseline functionality people expect [TS]

01:50:29   that and all your devices you see all [TS]

01:50:30   your conversations that you've had [TS]

01:50:31   anywhere I thing that has never been [TS]

01:50:33   true about iMessage that they promise to [TS]

01:50:35   make it true your achievements your your [TS]

01:50:38   silly achievements on your Apple watch [TS]

01:50:40   they should be as bulletproof as your [TS]

01:50:42   family photos they should be everywhere [TS]

01:50:44   you should be able to throw your watch [TS]

01:50:46   into the ocean and get a new Apple watch [TS]

01:50:47   put it on and all your achievements from [TS]

01:50:49   all your past that watch it should be [TS]

01:50:50   there to show that yes you had a 28 day [TS]

01:50:52   streak of meeting your goals in 2015 [TS]

01:50:55   like why shouldn't it be it's such a [TS]

01:50:57   small amount of data and Apple should [TS]

01:50:59   know how incredibly important it is [TS]

01:51:01   beyond all reason to the people who do [TS]

01:51:03   them like that's the whole point of [TS]

01:51:04   that's why they're giving them the shiny [TS]

01:51:05   little 3d things [TS]

01:51:06   it's just silly token that we [TS]

01:51:07   no well you know it's like it's like [TS]

01:51:10   free-to-play gaming like they're they're [TS]

01:51:12   exploiting human you know foibles to [TS]

01:51:16   make you exercise more and them being [TS]

01:51:18   carefree with not like not preserving [TS]

01:51:21   them with the same vigor that they [TS]

01:51:22   preserve your family photos just shows [TS]

01:51:24   the disconnect like a misunderstanding [TS]

01:51:25   of how you like in one hand they know [TS]

01:51:29   how humans work so they're gonna make [TS]

01:51:30   the system on the other hand they don't [TS]

01:51:31   understand how important it is for them [TS]

01:51:34   to keep this stuff in sync yep yeah I [TS]

01:51:37   couldn't agree more [TS]

01:51:38   the other example I had and this this [TS]

01:51:41   one could very well be a hundred percent [TS]

01:51:43   on my shoulders but thinking like a [TS]

01:51:47   consumer and not thinking like a [TS]

01:51:48   developer it sure doesn't feel like it [TS]

01:51:51   is and the problem I'm having in and I'm [TS]

01:51:53   the only one I think that I've heard [TS]

01:51:55   complaining about this so it's maybe it [TS]

01:51:57   is me but the problem I'm having is I'm [TS]

01:51:59   getting to the point that I feel like I [TS]

01:52:01   am being incapable of typing on my phone [TS]

01:52:04   anymore I just can't do it successfully [TS]

01:52:06   I cannot get a friggin sentence out on [TS]

01:52:09   my phone without having a thousand typos [TS]

01:52:12   and it's driving me insane and half the [TS]

01:52:16   time it's autocorrect doing something [TS]

01:52:18   increasingly bananas as time goes on [TS]

01:52:21   which is why I think maybe it's this [TS]

01:52:23   weirdo machine learning stuff but if [TS]

01:52:25   that's not going well yeah it's really [TS]

01:52:27   not and I understand the thought process [TS]

01:52:30   it makes sense it's a clever idea but I [TS]

01:52:31   don't think the execution is is is going [TS]

01:52:34   well at all but I again I don't know if [TS]

01:52:37   it's just me maybe I just had fatter [TS]

01:52:39   fingers than I've ever had despite all [TS]

01:52:41   this wonderful running I'm doing maybe [TS]

01:52:42   I'm exercising my fingers as I'm running [TS]

01:52:44   so they're getting fatter and fatter [TS]

01:52:45   with muscle who knows whatever it is I [TS]

01:52:49   feel like I cannot type on my phone any [TS]

01:52:51   more without a billion typos and it's [TS]

01:52:54   getting to the point that you know once [TS]

01:52:57   we got SMS on the Mac which is a great [TS]

01:52:59   example of something that made my life [TS]

01:53:01   demonstrable better I mean that [TS]

01:53:03   genuinely once I could send not only AI [TS]

01:53:05   messages but SMS from my Mac it was [TS]

01:53:08   amazing and the reason it was amazing [TS]

01:53:12   was because I could talk to my all of my [TS]

01:53:15   in-laws none of whom have iPhones I [TS]

01:53:17   could talk to them and send them text [TS]

01:53:19   messages from my Mac on a full-size [TS]

01:53:20   keyboard [TS]

01:53:21   and it was magic and it always worked [TS]

01:53:24   and to be honest to this day it still [TS]

01:53:25   almost always works so that is an [TS]

01:53:28   example of a feature that I think is [TS]

01:53:29   very complex because the only thing that [TS]

01:53:31   can send this SMS as far as I'm aware is [TS]

01:53:33   my phone and it's but it's very complex [TS]

01:53:35   but it works it's almost bulletproof so [TS]

01:53:37   anyway it's gotten to the point with my [TS]

01:53:40   iPhone that if I have to type more than [TS]

01:53:42   like a one or two line text message I'm [TS]

01:53:43   going searching for the nearest Mac so I [TS]

01:53:45   can type it with a physical keyboard [TS]

01:53:47   because I know at least then I'll be [TS]

01:53:49   able to do it without ripping my hair [TS]

01:53:50   out and I apologize if it's just me but [TS]

01:53:53   it's a very clear example of a time when [TS]

01:53:55   I thought about throwing my phone out [TS]

01:53:57   the window or I really first leading [TS]

01:53:59   moment thought to myself so how bad are [TS]

01:54:03   those pixels these days anyway and like [TS]

01:54:05   that's that's a problem I'm a super fan [TS]

01:54:07   like part of my living is talking about [TS]

01:54:10   how much I love Apple and I'm thinking [TS]

01:54:13   to myself oh god maybe I should just [TS]

01:54:16   maybe I should put this aside and you [TS]

01:54:18   know what the healthy thing to do would [TS]

01:54:19   probably be for me to try pixel and [TS]

01:54:21   realize that I'm just being a big baby [TS]

01:54:23   and really really life is considerably [TS]

01:54:27   worse on the other side unless but who [TS]

01:54:30   knows I know am I crazy on this like do [TS]

01:54:34   you feel the same way I do it's funny [TS]

01:54:35   you mentioned SMS on the Mac because I [TS]

01:54:38   have one person that I talk to that I [TS]

01:54:43   don't doesn't have an iPhone that I have [TS]

01:54:44   to send them SMS to and I always do it [TS]

01:54:46   from my phone because I could never [TS]

01:54:47   remember if you could do it from the Mac [TS]

01:54:49   and every time I went to go check I'm [TS]

01:54:52   usually at work like when I had to send [TS]

01:54:53   SMS is this person every time I went to [TS]

01:54:55   check at my Mac I would bring up [TS]

01:54:56   messages on my Mac at work and I would [TS]

01:54:58   find it signed out and I would enter my [TS]

01:55:01   correct password to sign in and it would [TS]

01:55:02   just say nope sorry I couldn't sign you [TS]

01:55:05   in sorry error failed couldn't sign into [TS]

01:55:08   iMessage and the only fix to this is for [TS]

01:55:12   me to restart my Mac once I actually [TS]

01:55:14   reset my P Ram but then I realized it [TS]

01:55:16   was probably just the restarting of it [TS]

01:55:17   did it that's how desperate I was but [TS]

01:55:19   but anyway this is another one those [TS]

01:55:20   things have like hey design message work [TS]

01:55:22   on your Mac yeah most of the time what's [TS]

01:55:24   the time like I send and receive [TS]

01:55:25   messages in the messages application on [TS]

01:55:27   my Mac at work back and forth to my wife [TS]

01:55:29   you know it's nice to type on the big [TS]

01:55:30   keyboard just like KC right boo Here I [TS]

01:55:31   am doing [TS]

01:55:32   messages but every time I think oh I [TS]

01:55:35   should try a semester me or two and I [TS]

01:55:36   bring up messages and it just gets a [TS]

01:55:38   little the thing pops up and says and [TS]

01:55:39   wants me to sign in and has like you can [TS]

01:55:41   skip this process anyway like I realize [TS]

01:55:43   I am permanently signed out again [TS]

01:55:44   something having to do probably with [TS]

01:55:46   Hardware IDs and VPNs and the fact that [TS]

01:55:50   it's on Wi-Fi and even at the same time [TS]

01:55:52   when it's plugged into the dock and I [TS]

01:55:54   don't know I'm like all the sorts of [TS]

01:55:55   guessing about what could possibly cause [TS]

01:55:57   the iMessage to be confused but anyway I [TS]

01:55:59   restart I log back in usually restarting [TS]

01:56:01   fixes it and then I get a notifications [TS]

01:56:03   and every single one of my devices that [TS]

01:56:04   says you just signed in with your Apple [TS]

01:56:06   ID do I message on blah blah blah you [TS]

01:56:08   know that message you get like like a [TS]

01:56:10   nun and all my devices which makes you [TS]

01:56:11   thinks it is it has reprovision Danu [TS]

01:56:13   private and public key for that one [TS]

01:56:15   computer that's the type of thing that [TS]

01:56:17   like you know messages it's a thing it's [TS]

01:56:20   there it works I'm not abandoning it [TS]

01:56:22   because the utility is still too high [TS]

01:56:23   but it bothers me that it's not as [TS]

01:56:25   reliable as a Monde ATM was for like a [TS]

01:56:28   day well in your defense [TS]

01:56:30   SMS relay is like its own dance that you [TS]

01:56:34   have to go through on each computer in [TS]

01:56:36   an iPad in whatever iOS device that you [TS]

01:56:39   want to do it on so like I actually [TS]

01:56:41   wrote a post in late 2014 which will [TS]

01:56:43   link in the show notes as to the song [TS]

01:56:45   and dance you need to get through in [TS]

01:56:47   order to turn this on and this is just [TS]

01:56:49   for SMS this is not I mean this is the [TS]

01:56:56   answer that I could never get to pursue [TS]

01:56:57   it was permanently always permantly sign [TS]

01:56:58   out of messages but it I'm good to know [TS]

01:57:00   that this is must have been what I was [TS]

01:57:01   forgetting about this may be that it [TS]

01:57:03   actually does yeah that's a bummer you [TS]

01:57:06   should read my blog John it's pretty [TS]

01:57:08   good I think I did I'm looking at this [TS]

01:57:09   thing and I remember I was looking at [TS]

01:57:13   this right now and gagging actually it's [TS]

01:57:15   what do you say that I was just looking [TS]

01:57:16   at it and going but it's before is the [TS]

01:57:19   thing that people don't appreciate it or [TS]

01:57:21   doing Mac OS reviews for so long that I [TS]

01:57:24   didn't have blurred out screenshots and [TS]

01:57:26   you know how hard that is it's really [TS]

01:57:27   hard oh I don't doubt it it's really [TS]

01:57:30   hard because personal information is [TS]

01:57:31   everywhere anyway but yeah but the point [TS]

01:57:34   I'm driving at is you know in some of [TS]

01:57:35   these things like I forget how complex [TS]

01:57:38   they are and how reasonably bulletproof [TS]

01:57:40   they are in SMS like this is happy KC [TS]

01:57:43   right like SMS relay is an example of [TS]

01:57:45   that it has to send my sms's to my phone [TS]

01:57:48   because as far as I understand my phone [TS]

01:57:50   is the only thing that can actually [TS]

01:57:51   issue an SMS to my carrier and this [TS]

01:57:54   stuff works I use it all day every day [TS]

01:57:56   and it works great it is almost flawless [TS]

01:57:59   but if I actually want to send an SMS [TS]

01:58:02   from the friggin device sending them for [TS]

01:58:05   if I want a phone to type a text message [TS]

01:58:08   on my iPhone it only gets through [TS]

01:58:11   without typos maybe one time out of [TS]

01:58:12   three and it's driving me insane I don't [TS]

01:58:15   know if you can blame the autocorrect [TS]

01:58:17   that aside from the silly [TS]

01:58:18   can't type of letter I thing I know they [TS]

01:58:19   have had some wonky nice with it but not [TS]

01:58:22   a new size of the phone because it could [TS]

01:58:29   be but I feel like I what it feels like [TS]

01:58:32   and again this is maybe all in my head [TS]

01:58:35   but it feels like the way they the [TS]

01:58:39   accuracy checks on key presses either [TS]

01:58:43   got less forgiving or or or I don't know [TS]

01:58:47   something happened like two or three [TS]

01:58:49   maybe even four versions of iOS ago and [TS]

01:58:52   I used to type really accurately [TS]

01:58:55   like around the time of the six and it [TS]

01:59:00   was like the 6s or something like that [TS]

01:59:02   where everything took a turn and all of [TS]

01:59:05   a sudden I just could not type anymore [TS]

01:59:06   and it's just been getting worse and [TS]

01:59:07   worse and you would think like between [TS]

01:59:09   the 6s and my seven it would get better [TS]

01:59:11   and yes I agree with you that when I go [TS]

01:59:13   to the 10 maybe that would it would have [TS]

01:59:16   a moment you know I would I would have [TS]

01:59:17   to train myself a little bit and I think [TS]