The Accidental Tech Podcast

251: Uninstall Your Water Reminder App!


02:00:00   they expect a certain level of support [TS]

02:00:01   for that money and I did not want to [TS]

02:00:03   offer that level of support for the [TS]

02:00:05   anticipated very low customer volume [TS]

02:00:07   that this would probably generate and [TS]

02:00:09   then secondarily I realized like there's [TS]

02:00:11   actually like strategic benefits to this [TS]

02:00:14   for overcast where if I supply the [TS]

02:00:17   encoder and I and and I'm and I control [TS]

02:00:20   the encoders UI and features for a bunch [TS]

02:00:23   of popular podcasts and I also control [TS]

02:00:25   the podcast app then I can do cool [TS]

02:00:28   features [TS]

02:00:29   I can implement new features I can I can [TS]

02:00:31   extend the implementations of current [TS]

02:00:33   features so for instance one of the [TS]

02:00:34   features that observant listeners might [TS]

02:00:37   have noticed in a TP and an overcast [TS]

02:00:39   over the last couple of months is that [TS]

02:00:42   I've had the ability to basically create [TS]

02:00:45   invisible chapters chapters that don't [TS]

02:00:48   show up in the chapter list but that at [TS]

02:00:50   a certain time stamp show a certain [TS]

02:00:52   image or a link or both and but-but-but [TS]

02:00:56   just are not in the table of contents [TS]

02:00:57   not in the list of chapters this is part [TS]

02:01:01   of the mp3 chapter spec there's actually [TS]

02:01:02   they actually say like oh not every [TS]

02:01:04   chapter needs to be a member of a table [TS]

02:01:05   of contents you could for instance show [TS]

02:01:07   us just show something at a certain time [TS]

02:01:09   but no apps implemented that both in the [TS]

02:01:12   encoding or the playing side because I [TS]

02:01:15   controlled the encoder and the player I [TS]

02:01:16   implemented that and so now we have this [TS]

02:01:19   cool feature that we can do with [TS]

02:01:20   podcasts where you can have invisible [TS]

02:01:22   chapters so if you don't if you want to [TS]

02:01:25   show a certain link like right now or a [TS]

02:01:26   certain picture right now without [TS]

02:01:28   disrupting the semantic structure of the [TS]

02:01:31   chapter that you're currently in or if [TS]

02:01:33   you want to show links or images at [TS]

02:01:36   certain times without having the rest of [TS]

02:01:38   the show even have chapters without [TS]

02:01:41   having a chapter structure for the rest [TS]

02:01:43   of the show at all you can now do that [TS]

02:01:45   that's a cool feature and I'm only able [TS]

02:01:47   to do that feature because I control an [TS]

02:01:49   encoder and the player and so I realized [TS]

02:01:53   like the more people who use this [TS]

02:01:55   encoder the better it works out for [TS]

02:01:59   overcast and for podcasting as a whole [TS]

02:02:00   and so I decided you know what because [TS]

02:02:04   of the combination of those strategic [TS]

02:02:05   benefits and the fact that any paid [TS]

02:02:08   income would probably be pretty small [TS]

02:02:10   and would probably bring a large support [TS]

02:02:12   burden for that [TS]

02:02:13   smallness I decided free was the better [TS]

02:02:17   approach so it's free but it's not just [TS]

02:02:21   free you have an interesting business [TS]

02:02:23   model sort of at the bottom of the [TS]

02:02:26   forecast page at overcast FM / forecast [TS]

02:02:29   oh yeah I say something along the lines [TS]

02:02:31   of like you know if you use this and you [TS]

02:02:34   find it useful for your podcasts I would [TS]

02:02:37   appreciate if you occasionally promote [TS]

02:02:38   it overcast and you don't have to do it [TS]

02:02:40   it's not a requirement and if it's if [TS]

02:02:42   it's a show where that doesn't make [TS]

02:02:43   sense like I was thinking of like you [TS]

02:02:45   look nice today like I know it's it's [TS]

02:02:46   not really production anymore but like a [TS]

02:02:48   show like you look nice today [TS]

02:02:50   or even like Dubai Friday which I kind [TS]

02:02:52   of use it's like a spiritual successor [TS]

02:02:54   it doesn't make sense to promote things [TS]

02:02:57   in a show like that like that doesn't [TS]

02:02:58   contextually fit it would sound weird so [TS]

02:03:02   like I don't want you promoting overcast [TS]

02:03:04   in a show like that but if you have a [TS]

02:03:06   show which most people do of like at the [TS]

02:03:09   end you have like oh please [TS]

02:03:10   you know rate us on iTunes and subscribe [TS]

02:03:12   and just it sure whenever else occasion [TS]

02:03:15   we throw an overcast there that's it [TS]

02:03:16   that's my business model is like if you [TS]

02:03:18   feel like it and if you can I'd [TS]

02:03:20   appreciate if you promoted overcast [TS]

02:03:21   sometimes but you don't have to where [TS]

02:03:25   are you hiding this application I've [TS]

02:03:26   read the web page when you linked on [TS]

02:03:27   Twitter but now mark org slash apps [TS]

02:03:30   doesn't list it that seems like an [TS]

02:03:31   oversight yeah I still have a lot of [TS]

02:03:33   places I need to update this it was kind [TS]

02:03:35   of a soft launch I was basically launch [TS]

02:03:36   it on Twitter the overcast site does not [TS]

02:03:38   link to it from anyway overcast FM / [TS]

02:03:45   forecast all right know what the icon [TS]

02:03:48   looks like the icon is is a [TS]

02:03:51   tongue-in-cheek joke it was created by [TS]

02:03:54   this wonderful the wonderful forgotten [TS]

02:03:57   towel the designer who does all of the [TS]

02:04:00   relay FM artwork I hired him to do this [TS]

02:04:02   icon and it's so good point nine come on [TS]

02:04:06   you're better than that [TS]

02:04:08   what is it at one point I don't know [TS]

02:04:12   release hi Sierra - don't you know that [TS]

02:04:15   semver has weird problems with version [TS]

02:04:17   numbers that begin with zero you don't [TS]

02:04:18   know that [TS]

02:04:19   yeah anyway I should I should probably [TS]

02:04:23   put the icon on the app page [TS]

02:04:27   downloaded to see the icon so what is [TS]

02:04:29   the joke you don't get the joke oh it's [TS]

02:04:30   so good it's a German flag but an F [TS]

02:04:34   alright yeah I see I thought it was like [TS]

02:04:36   some sort of I should have known I [TS]

02:04:38   should some sports thing like it's a [TS]

02:04:39   sports logo or something I see the [TS]

02:04:41   German flag colors now yes [TS]

02:04:43   yeah and a few Germans got it in that [TS]

02:04:44   and therefore that made it worth it so [TS]

02:04:46   how do you look at this application and [TS]

02:04:49   how do you how do you feel about I mean [TS]

02:04:52   I know this is like a utility and you're [TS]

02:04:54   like you don't really care that much [TS]

02:04:55   about the UI it's very utilitarian [TS]

02:04:56   applications for all the reasons you [TS]

02:04:57   listed and even some part of the UI you [TS]

02:05:00   don't even use but it also doesn't look [TS]

02:05:03   like you spent much time worrying about [TS]

02:05:06   what the window would look like like you [TS]

02:05:08   might have if this was gonna be a [TS]

02:05:09   commercial application like it just kind [TS]

02:05:11   of is just kind of there like it's not [TS]

02:05:13   things aren't badly aligned except for [TS]

02:05:15   maybe a little bit too much space [TS]

02:05:16   between the buttons and the rest of the [TS]

02:05:18   thing but it certainly is not not a [TS]

02:05:22   particularly showy application let's say [TS]

02:05:23   no it really isn't at all and and I take [TS]

02:05:26   full ownership of that that this is not [TS]

02:05:28   a pretty UI this is not a highly [TS]

02:05:30   polished UI if you do what I said I [TS]

02:05:33   never do which is if you manually enter [TS]

02:05:35   chapters it's really unpolished so it [TS]

02:05:39   this is not you know something that I'm [TS]

02:05:42   really proud of the UI this to me is a [TS]

02:05:45   is a highly functional app you know most [TS]

02:05:47   of what I like and I mentioned on the [TS]

02:05:50   show a few times before but I also have [TS]

02:05:53   a tool that helps align double ender [TS]

02:05:55   files and and remove drift in them this [TS]

02:05:58   is not that tool and I understand what [TS]

02:06:01   people think it might be because I [TS]

02:06:02   talked about that tool before this is a [TS]

02:06:04   separate tool that tool is an even less [TS]

02:06:06   polished command line app that has tons [TS]

02:06:10   of weird bugs edge cases if you don't [TS]

02:06:12   use it exactly the way I use it and even [TS]

02:06:14   then sometimes if you do and so that is [TS]

02:06:17   nowhere near releasable state and it [TS]

02:06:19   doesn't even have a GUI at all and even [TS]

02:06:21   the command line version is really not [TS]

02:06:22   particularly releasable this is a small [TS]

02:06:26   step above that you know this has a GUI [TS]

02:06:28   it is not a good interface it is not a [TS]

02:06:31   polished interface but this is a tool [TS]

02:06:33   for pro workflows that are like mine [TS]

02:06:38   even if no one else [TS]

02:06:41   every uses it it works great for me and [TS]

02:06:43   so I'm happy with that it's hard to [TS]

02:06:45   justify spending a lot of time on it [TS]

02:06:48   like polishing it up when I also am [TS]

02:06:50   maintaining overcast and having to [TS]

02:06:52   update that and move that forward on [TS]

02:06:53   everything so it's probably never gonna [TS]

02:06:56   be incredibly polished in the UI I just [TS]

02:07:00   want to make sure that it's really [TS]

02:07:01   useful and so you know like many Pro [TS]

02:07:04   Tools its kind of ugly but just [TS]

02:07:06   functional you should a drawer I [TS]

02:07:09   actually had a drawer and one of the bin [TS]

02:07:11   one of the early versions I was thinking [TS]

02:07:14   like you know it would be like one of [TS]

02:07:16   the things that was an obvious next step [TS]

02:07:19   for features for this app is to have a [TS]

02:07:21   little player and to have it like [TS]

02:07:23   preview and simulate like you know how [TS]

02:07:25   the chapters would look in a player and [TS]

02:07:27   and be able to seek to them and play [TS]

02:07:28   them and everything to make sure that [TS]

02:07:29   they're right you gotta bring back the [TS]

02:07:31   old visualizer from overcast yeah I [TS]

02:07:33   still have all that code obviously yes [TS]

02:07:36   and and so if you're gonna add a player [TS]

02:07:37   to this a drawer is kind of the obvious [TS]

02:07:40   way to just deprecated that like this [TS]

02:07:47   year I probably no I mean I wouldn't do [TS]

02:07:49   it but I was tempted to do it floating [TS]

02:07:53   brush metal window is the clear way to [TS]

02:07:54   do that oh yeah definitely [TS]

02:07:56   textured sorry it's not brush man yes [TS]

02:07:58   looks like I sink alright so I have two [TS]

02:08:01   questions for you [TS]

02:08:02   number one do you have any kind of [TS]

02:08:05   analytics anywhere just so you know like [TS]

02:08:08   was this market as small as you thought [TS]

02:08:09   or have you had you know eleventy [TS]

02:08:11   billion downloads and turns out you [TS]

02:08:13   might have miscalculated I can figure [TS]

02:08:16   this out now or later I don't need to do [TS]

02:08:18   this like in the app and so I haven't [TS]

02:08:20   yet in order to distribute this app [TS]

02:08:23   outside of the App Store which and [TS]

02:08:25   honestly like I wasn't trying to make [TS]

02:08:26   some kind of giant political statement [TS]

02:08:27   by not being in the App Store there was [TS]

02:08:29   just no need for me to be in the App [TS]

02:08:30   Store so I wasn't I did I didn't feel [TS]

02:08:32   that it was worth the the burdens of [TS]

02:08:34   being in the App Store for no benefit [TS]

02:08:36   really so I'm not in the App Store so I [TS]

02:08:40   had to build in distribution [TS]

02:08:42   functionality I had to build an auto [TS]

02:08:44   updating and the way you do are updating [TS]

02:08:46   in Mac apps is through the sparkle [TS]

02:08:48   framework this how pretty much everyone [TS]

02:08:50   does it everyone who used a Mac app that [TS]

02:08:52   that is not from the App Store has seen [TS]

02:08:54   the [TS]

02:08:55   little windows and say like you know if [TS]

02:08:56   it's available do you want to install an [TS]

02:08:57   app you know ROM me later or skip this [TS]

02:09:00   version and you click install now and it [TS]

02:09:01   shows like a little like you know [TS]

02:09:02   progress bar then it quits and relaunch [TS]

02:09:04   is the app there's a reason why those [TS]

02:09:06   are the same across pretty much every [TS]

02:09:08   app they all use the same framework [TS]

02:09:09   called sparkle and so the way sparkle [TS]

02:09:12   works is once a day or whatever when you [TS]

02:09:16   launch the app it checks a server's RSS [TS]

02:09:20   feed and it's a special RSS feed that [TS]

02:09:22   ink that is four versions of the app so [TS]

02:09:25   for me to distribute this I had to [TS]

02:09:27   basically build all that and I when I [TS]

02:09:29   made quitter I built like a very very [TS]

02:09:31   basic version of that that's just [TS]

02:09:32   basically all like shell scripts that [TS]

02:09:34   would generate static files and then [TS]

02:09:36   upload them to my server for forecast [TS]

02:09:38   this is an overcast product I wanted [TS]

02:09:40   this live to live on the overcast [TS]

02:09:41   servers I wanted to finally do like a [TS]

02:09:43   little bit better of a job so I kind of [TS]

02:09:45   made my own crappy little version of [TS]

02:09:47   iTunes Connect or hit where like I can [TS]

02:09:50   upload a build and a script on the [TS]

02:09:53   server reads the build number and the [TS]

02:09:55   version number out of that build signs [TS]

02:09:58   it for for sparkle update mechanism like [TS]

02:10:01   there's a signature involved so signs it [TS]

02:10:04   for that and then creates like an entry [TS]

02:10:07   then I can enter release notes in that [TS]

02:10:08   entry and I can say whether it's [TS]

02:10:10   released or not so I can actually very [TS]

02:10:12   easily add a thing to this system that [TS]

02:10:15   remembers how many people check that RSS [TS]

02:10:18   feed every day and important reports to [TS]

02:10:19   me roughly how many users there are or I [TS]

02:10:22   can just log like how many downloads the [TS]

02:10:24   file has which I also don't do I [TS]

02:10:26   probably should be doing that but I'm [TS]

02:10:27   not [TS]

02:10:28   but overall the response I've gotten on [TS]

02:10:32   Twitter so far has been huge it was it's [TS]

02:10:36   been way bigger than I expected and I [TS]

02:10:39   think this is really this is really a [TS]

02:10:41   good sign there's a lot more podcast [TS]

02:10:45   producers out there that then the people [TS]

02:10:48   I know I said it isn't so many that I [TS]

02:10:52   regret really producing it for free be [TS]

02:10:55   it I think if it wasn't free many of [TS]

02:10:56   them wouldn't try it because they don't [TS]

02:10:57   know me and this is just some random [TS]

02:10:58   thing but because it's free it is [TS]

02:11:02   spreading pretty wide wider than I [TS]

02:11:04   expect it at the spread so quickly [TS]

02:11:05   especially since I'm linking to it from [TS]

02:11:07   nowhere on this [TS]

02:11:07   so so yeah so far it's it's going pretty [TS]

02:11:11   well good and because it's my favorite [TS]

02:11:16   thing to ask what was the either hardest [TS]

02:11:19   or crummiest part of the entire process [TS]

02:11:21   and I think that you're under the radar [TS]

02:11:23   episode talked about a lot of the like [TS]

02:11:26   oh the app is done but there's so much [TS]

02:11:29   more to do and like you were talking [TS]

02:11:30   about like you're you're Marco connect [TS]

02:11:32   you know in order your fake iTunes [TS]

02:11:34   Connect and all that had to be written [TS]

02:11:35   but but over the entire process from [TS]

02:11:38   start to finish including all this [TS]

02:11:39   administrivia you had to do what would [TS]

02:11:41   you say was the either the hardest or or [TS]

02:11:43   the most difficult or crummiest part to [TS]

02:11:46   deal with by far the hardest part of [TS]

02:11:49   this app is just learning app kit [TS]

02:11:53   you know it's learning how to make mac [TS]

02:11:54   apps you know I had made quitter before [TS]

02:11:57   and I made a couple of little like [TS]

02:11:58   experimental dumb crap before that but [TS]

02:12:01   this is the first time that I really [TS]

02:12:03   have made a Mac app of any kind of [TS]

02:12:06   substance now the good thing is you know [TS]

02:12:10   applicant provides a lot of really rich [TS]

02:12:12   functionality built in so like the [TS]

02:12:14   entire document model I don't have to [TS]

02:12:16   worry that much about like windowing [TS]

02:12:19   opening saving save as stuff like that [TS]

02:12:22   like a lot of that comes for free and so [TS]

02:12:24   that's pretty great but the the way that [TS]

02:12:27   the actual UI works like the way those [TS]

02:12:29   table views work and the text fields [TS]

02:12:31   inside the table views and the for [TS]

02:12:33   matters and the bindings to an array [TS]

02:12:35   controller all those weird stuff you [TS]

02:12:37   know to to an iOS developer mainly it [TS]

02:12:40   might as well be Android like it's so [TS]

02:12:42   different from the way iOS works that [TS]

02:12:45   it's it's like starting over from zero [TS]

02:12:48   so I'm making mac apps as though I'm a [TS]

02:12:52   complete novice because for the Mac I am [TS]

02:12:54   that has been the hardest part is that [TS]

02:12:57   you know I'm used to working at a [TS]

02:12:59   certain speed and proficiency and and [TS]

02:13:02   design proficiency on iOS that I just [TS]

02:13:05   don't have when making mac OS apps so [TS]

02:13:07   it's that's been a very very slow [TS]

02:13:09   learning process and it's also just [TS]

02:13:10   harder on the Mac because the api's are [TS]

02:13:13   have a lot more legacy because they're [TS]

02:13:15   much older so the api's are a lot [TS]

02:13:17   clunkier they have not gotten nearly as [TS]

02:13:20   much attention in the last [TS]

02:13:21   Cady's iOS has so they are in many ways [TS]

02:13:25   a lot harder to use or have a lot of [TS]

02:13:27   antiquated or clunky things you have to [TS]

02:13:29   do to use them and the biggest problem [TS]

02:13:32   with all of it is that because iOS is so [TS]

02:13:36   incredibly popular and Mac OS [TS]

02:13:38   development relatively isn't it's very [TS]

02:13:40   hard to find answers if you have [TS]

02:13:42   questions for Mac OS development there's [TS]

02:13:44   not like with iOS you can search [TS]

02:13:46   anything in under the Sun and you're [TS]

02:13:48   gonna get a thousand Google results half [TS]

02:13:51   of them are gonna be really great [TS]

02:13:52   tutorials like exactly what you have to [TS]

02:13:55   do or great Stack Overflow answers on [TS]

02:13:57   exact exactly the problem you're having [TS]

02:13:59   and a Mac OS that's not the case most of [TS]

02:14:02   the time most time what you're searching [TS]

02:14:03   for you will get either nothing helpful [TS]

02:14:06   or like one ancient mailing list post [TS]

02:14:10   that you have to like scan through the [TS]

02:14:11   web version of a man list to find [TS]

02:14:13   somebody who might maybe be talking [TS]

02:14:15   about what you're talking about [TS]

02:14:16   it's it's a very different world I'm [TS]

02:14:18   just trying to think of an excuse to use [TS]

02:14:20   this application maybe I should [TS]

02:14:21   participate cast it's right you're on so [TS]

02:14:25   many podcasts you drop artwork here okay [TS]

02:14:30   why are you yelling at me [TS]

02:14:32   it looks better I know this isn't like [TS]

02:14:34   me designing Mac OS apps it's it's like [TS]

02:14:37   the way everyone designs Windows apps [TS]

02:14:39   it's like I don't know what the hell is [TS]

02:14:40   good here like just throw something [TS]

02:14:42   there that looks good using the guide [TS]

02:14:45   snap things in interface builder or did [TS]

02:14:46   you not use interface builder for this [TS]

02:14:48   at all no I use it I use the guide snap [TS]

02:14:50   things no I mean like I built most of [TS]

02:14:52   the interface with cocoa bindings just [TS]

02:14:53   so I wouldn't have to learn a lot of the [TS]

02:14:56   intricacies of tableviews and then all [TS]

02:14:58   the experience Mac developer scolded you [TS]

02:14:59   for it yeah and then every was like oh [TS]

02:15:00   yeah I don't use cocoa but yeah thanks a [TS]

02:15:02   lot it is really nice to do certain like [TS]

02:15:05   and you know cocoa bindings are great [TS]

02:15:07   for like really simple stuff like like [TS]

02:15:08   enable disabled states of certain [TS]

02:15:11   buttons tracking certain you know [TS]

02:15:13   properties or things being nil or things [TS]

02:15:15   like that it's there's a lot of value to [TS]

02:15:18   cocoa bindings but like for me to fix [TS]

02:15:21   the main problem the app has which is [TS]

02:15:22   the manual entry of chapters is very [TS]

02:15:24   clunky and weird that is going to [TS]

02:15:28   basically require dumping bindings for [TS]

02:15:30   the tableview and that's going to be a [TS]

02:15:31   you know I'm not gonna say it's gonna be [TS]

02:15:34   a huge pain [TS]

02:15:35   but it's gonna be a decent mount of work [TS]

02:15:36   at least especially because I'm totally [TS]

02:15:39   unfamiliar with it if it was I us I [TS]

02:15:41   could do it in half a day but because [TS]

02:15:43   it's Mac OS it's gonna take me a lot [TS]

02:15:44   longer than that and the good thing is [TS]

02:15:46   that the app has gotten such a strong [TS]

02:15:48   reception that I'm actually motivated to [TS]

02:15:50   do things like this to fix weird bugs [TS]

02:15:52   that that don't affect me personally but [TS]

02:15:54   I do have to also keep that in check [TS]

02:15:56   with like this is not my primary job I'm [TS]

02:15:59   primary job as overcast and I need to [TS]

02:16:00   make sure that overcast is not going to [TS]

02:16:02   suffer for me working too much on [TS]

02:16:05   forecast the good thing is I don't think [TS]

02:16:07   it's that I don't that's very likely [TS]

02:16:08   because like I've been working on a [TS]

02:16:10   forecast for two years and the way I [TS]

02:16:12   usually work on it is I fix some things [TS]

02:16:15   I've wanted to fix for a while like [TS]

02:16:18   ferla over like a week and then I don't [TS]

02:16:20   touch it for six months and then I spend [TS]

02:16:23   another week tweaking it up and then I [TS]

02:16:25   gotta go to the six months not touching [TS]

02:16:26   it because it pretty much works like it [TS]

02:16:28   doesn't need a lot of attention [TS]

02:16:30   so hopefully this this won't be a huge [TS]

02:16:33   time second I don't think it will how is [TS]

02:16:36   forecasts choosing where to put its a [TS]

02:16:37   window when a command man I don't know [TS]

02:16:41   like I mean so there's that weird like [TS]

02:16:44   thing interface builder that little like [TS]

02:16:46   window graphic thing where you say like [TS]

02:16:48   all right kind of position it kind of in [TS]

02:16:49   the middle of the window and the left is [TS]

02:16:51   like there's there's something interface [TS]

02:16:52   builder that lets you specify that if [TS]

02:16:57   this was a conscious choice area it does [TS]

02:16:59   remember it does remember the window [TS]

02:17:01   position between quits at which I'm [TS]

02:17:02   assuming you're picking up for free as [TS]

02:17:03   part of like the savory store [TS]

02:17:05   I think same thing but if you close all [TS]

02:17:07   the windows and hit command in a new [TS]

02:17:09   window appears in a location that I mean [TS]

02:17:11   it's not random it's always the same [TS]

02:17:13   place but it's like off-center to the [TS]

02:17:15   left Cup the middle vertically yeah I [TS]

02:17:17   saw that in the thing and interface [TS]

02:17:19   builder that accident I wasn't aware [TS]

02:17:21   that was a global I figured it would [TS]

02:17:22   just use the last one and that would be [TS]

02:17:24   like the very first time it ever made a [TS]

02:17:26   window it would create it there no no I [TS]

02:17:28   see that this is the problem like I [TS]

02:17:30   don't know how to do this unless you [TS]

02:17:32   look at that's fine and the other thing [TS]

02:17:35   that surprised me is that you use a Mac [TS]

02:17:36   every day but like you know when you [TS]

02:17:38   laid out like the Preferences dialog [TS]

02:17:39   that's laid out like no preference [TS]

02:17:41   dialog in any mac app and you use all [TS]

02:17:43   the time [TS]

02:17:44   like you see preference dialogues but [TS]

02:17:46   there's like three preferences [TS]

02:17:48   I know I know and yet surprisingly laid [TS]

02:17:51   out in kind of a weird Marco kind of way [TS]

02:17:53   and the thing is that this is the thing [TS]

02:17:58   I never sighs just because you use a Mac [TS]

02:18:00   application all the time doesn't mean [TS]

02:18:01   you you consciously know like if I'm [TS]

02:18:03   making a dialog from scratch and I have [TS]

02:18:05   like two text boxes to two radio buttons [TS]

02:18:07   and a button how do I put them so it [TS]

02:18:09   looks like correct right and I had so [TS]

02:18:12   like this stuff took me so long to try [TS]

02:18:15   to figure out because I am NOT a Mac [TS]

02:18:18   developer and like it was very very slow [TS]

02:18:22   going like again like it's like I was a [TS]

02:18:24   novice because I for the Mac I am a [TS]

02:18:26   novice and even using a Mac yes I'm [TS]

02:18:30   saying you don't think about it if [TS]

02:18:31   you're not actually dragging the [TS]

02:18:32   controls out because when you see like a [TS]

02:18:34   Mac dialog box like it looks more or [TS]

02:18:35   less right but then you see one doesn't [TS]

02:18:37   quite look right there's something off [TS]

02:18:38   about it but you can't quite place it [TS]

02:18:39   it's like you know what would fix this [TS]

02:18:41   is just is just because the button on [TS]

02:18:43   the bottom is centered is it you know [TS]

02:18:44   what is the problem with that I don't [TS]

02:18:46   know anyway it's fine [TS]

02:18:48   I appreciate your on account your icon [TS]

02:18:51   does look like a Sports logo though I [TS]

02:18:52   don't know I keep thinking [TS]

02:18:52   don't know I keep thinking [TS]

00:00:00   just as a warning hey I need one more [TS]

00:00:02   stand hour before I go to bed which [TS]

00:00:04   means we need to end before midnight [TS]

00:00:06   you can stand while we podcast a [TS]

00:00:09   standing podcast desk have you gotten [TS]

00:00:11   the 9 o'clock hour yet uh no stand up [TS]

00:00:15   just run or stand up I just want that's [TS]

00:00:16   true that's fair point [TS]

00:00:18   Oh God how like what like one or two [TS]

00:00:20   minutes of activity of standing one [TS]

00:00:22   minute but I gotta like wiggle around [TS]

00:00:24   and make the watch think that I'm [TS]

00:00:26   standing you should run in place you can [TS]

00:00:28   get if you're under your calorie count [TS]

00:00:30   for the day you run that's true I don't [TS]

00:00:31   know how am i doing how am i doing let's [TS]

00:00:33   look are you finishing all three rings I [TS]

00:00:34   wanted some kind of streak or you just [TS]

00:00:36   doing Stan Lee are you still a blue ring [TS]

00:00:38   stud stand is the only thing I really [TS]

00:00:41   care about I did have a really good [TS]

00:00:43   streak going for a long time but I'm I'm [TS]

00:00:45   ever so lightly sick so I've been [TS]

00:00:47   skipping my morning runs and so [TS]

00:00:49   basically I'm just a sloth as I I'm [TS]

00:00:52   realizing my true form as a sloth [TS]

00:00:54   blue-ringed sloth the blue ring slide [TS]

00:00:56   that's exactly it [TS]

00:00:58   how'd you get the exercise man it's a [TS]

00:01:00   not get the orange ring because I'm out [TS]

00:01:02   of shape even despite all the running so [TS]

00:01:05   kidding exercise minutes is easier than [TS]

00:01:07   you think [TS]

00:01:07   wait wait wait ok we're good ok we can [TS]

00:01:10   start you got it you get like a badger [TS]

00:01:12   and everything everything is all right [TS]

00:01:13   now are you in the right time zone [TS]

00:01:14   who knows I in the right country is this [TS]

00:01:18   what people to in tune in for well in [TS]

00:01:22   your preferred date format why don't you [TS]

00:01:24   put the year first so then it like like [TS]

00:01:27   sorts properly this is a good question [TS]

00:01:29   which probably won't make the show but [TS]

00:01:31   if I were editing would make the show [TS]

00:01:33   and this is why I don't edit by hey the [TS]

00:01:37   reason you don't do I so what is it ATIS [TS]

00:01:39   8601 is because if you're doing [TS]

00:01:42   something where in your handling like [TS]

00:01:46   just in unbelievable amount of files [TS]

00:01:48   like let's say for the sake of argument [TS]

00:01:50   thing you were you had all of your [TS]

00:01:52   pictures that you've ever taken in one [TS]

00:01:56   folder because you're weird so every [TS]

00:01:59   single photograph you've ever taken is [TS]

00:02:00   all in one folder on your one directory [TS]

00:02:02   if you will well they never called [TS]

00:02:04   directories on the Mac John way back [TS]

00:02:05   when or is that just a DOS thing they [TS]

00:02:07   were not ok so it's a toss thing anyways [TS]

00:02:10   what did you do calls in directories [TS]

00:02:11   right oh that's true [TS]

00:02:13   yes Oh fair enough anyway I digress so [TS]

00:02:17   if you had out any photo you've ever [TS]

00:02:19   taken in one in one folder slash [TS]

00:02:20   directory then absolutely 8601 that bad [TS]

00:02:23   boy but in my day to day use of a [TS]

00:02:26   computer easily ninety percent of the [TS]

00:02:29   time that I'm looking at any date I know [TS]

00:02:31   by context that it is the current year [TS]

00:02:34   so why would I put your first that just [TS]

00:02:37   gets annoying and redundant there are [TS]

00:02:39   certain circumstances where years should [TS]

00:02:41   go first but generally speaking the one [TS]

00:02:44   true way to store a date is day day [TS]

00:02:47   month month year year because a day is [TS]

00:02:51   smaller than a month and a month is [TS]

00:02:53   smaller than a year 8601 is ridiculous [TS]

00:02:56   and anyone who says otherwise is [TS]

00:02:58   preposterous it is day month year so [TS]

00:03:02   unless you are doing machines in which [TS]

00:03:04   case yes 86 so the the what I'm arguing [TS]

00:03:08   for which I guess no one I forget is [TS]

00:03:10   year-month-day correct that's it so on [TS]

00:03:13   the reason why this is better is that it [TS]

00:03:17   is completely unambiguous because that [TS]

00:03:20   no no where ever uses year day month so [TS]

00:03:24   if you see a four-digit year up front [TS]

00:03:26   you know that the next number is going [TS]

00:03:29   to be the month and then I'm sure that [TS]

00:03:30   is going to be the day in addition to [TS]

00:03:32   the benefits of it being like you know [TS]

00:03:35   alphabetically sorted properly in lists [TS]

00:03:37   that you know that's a side benefit but [TS]

00:03:39   the the number one argument forward is [TS]

00:03:41   that it's unambiguous that you can use [TS]

00:03:43   that format anywhere in the world and [TS]

00:03:46   people will know how to read it and the [TS]

00:03:48   chance of error is very very low so that [TS]

00:03:51   alone should win it but also you know [TS]

00:03:53   you're a programmer the lexicographical [TS]

00:03:55   sorting argument should work on you and [TS]

00:03:56   you know yes you know right now this is [TS]

00:03:58   the current year guess what it won't be [TS]

00:04:00   in a month like next month will be a [TS]

00:04:02   different current year and if you have a [TS]

00:04:05   format that sorts correctly no matter [TS]

00:04:07   what year you are in or what year the [TS]

00:04:08   stuff you're looking at is from that [TS]

00:04:11   seems like it would be a win so the [TS]

00:04:13   correct way to write a date in a file [TS]

00:04:15   name or in an unambiguous context is [TS]

00:04:17   year-month-day see I I can't I can't [TS]

00:04:21   disagree with you because you're not [TS]

00:04:22   you're not you're not wrong but you're [TS]

00:04:26   also not right [TS]

00:04:27   because I just don't like it I don't [TS]

00:04:29   like it I'm the same person who doesn't [TS]

00:04:31   put a zero in my in my URL slugs [TS]

00:04:33   so I mean Who am I to talk but to my [TS]

00:04:35   eyes I mean well I think we can all [TS]

00:04:37   agree that Americans get it wrong that [TS]

00:04:38   month/day/year is just preposterous it [TS]

00:04:41   is truly an utterly stupid you try to [TS]

00:04:44   make us all agree on cheese here with [TS]

00:04:45   this cuz I don't agree on G's only you [TS]

00:04:48   are agreeing on cheese what does that [TS]

00:04:50   even mean [TS]

00:04:51   American cheese is delicious yeah [TS]

00:04:53   month/day/year is not preposterous for [TS]

00:04:54   filename sure it's preposterous but for [TS]

00:04:57   like display purposes which is what [TS]

00:04:59   we're talking about last time you like [TS]

00:05:00   oh I said myself to Australia so so my [TS]

00:05:02   watch can display dates to me in that [TS]

00:05:04   way I don't want this displayed to me in [TS]

00:05:06   year month day I want them in the dus [TS]

00:05:09   system in the US system makes sense for [TS]

00:05:11   display dates because no doesn't it yeah [TS]

00:05:13   it does [TS]

00:05:13   month day is all you need to know almost [TS]

00:05:16   all the time and for disambiguation [TS]

00:05:17   hanging out on the right hand side [TS]

00:05:19   because we read from right to left if [TS]

00:05:20   you need to look over there [TS]

00:05:21   yeah there's year we read from right to [TS]

00:05:23   left all right you know what I mean left [TS]

00:05:24   right no you always go day month year [TS]

00:05:28   you always go dimo no not in this [TS]

00:05:30   country and you shouldn't do it that way [TS]

00:05:31   because not in this country but we're [TS]

00:05:33   wrong we use Imperial month day month [TS]

00:05:36   day makes sense month date makes us [TS]

00:05:38   pretty split purposes not you shouldn't [TS]

00:05:39   put that in your file name because that [TS]

00:05:41   would be for the reasons mark are [TS]

00:05:42   already outlined no this is preposterous [TS]

00:05:44   John the reason you say month day is [TS]

00:05:45   right it's just because it's what you're [TS]

00:05:46   used to [TS]

00:05:47   no I'm saying there's an argument for it [TS]

00:05:50   it's not just like random or wrong like [TS]

00:05:51   there every each one of these formats [TS]

00:05:53   has its strengths and weaknesses and and [TS]

00:05:54   saying that we can all agree that Monday [TS]

00:05:57   is preposterous is saying that there are [TS]

00:05:58   no advantages to it there are there is [TS]

00:06:00   there is a sense there is a mnemonic [TS]

00:06:01   there is a sensible system for why that [TS]

00:06:04   date works not just because we're used [TS]

00:06:06   to it which is obviously a big factor [TS]

00:06:07   but also there are things to recommend [TS]

00:06:09   it which is I have what I was just [TS]

00:06:10   explaining so it's not you know [TS]

00:06:12   completely it's not a completely [TS]

00:06:14   write-off it's only clearly right often [TS]

00:06:16   in file names because that would be them [TS]

00:06:18   I can get behind I can get behind month [TS]

00:06:21   day when year is not a part of it so [TS]

00:06:24   March 17 okay fine but that's the thing [TS]

00:06:27   like you have that disambiguation like [TS]

00:06:29   it's month day and then in cases where [TS]

00:06:31   you feel like you need some [TS]

00:06:31   disambiguation like during the year [TS]

00:06:33   changeover or if you're doing distant [TS]

00:06:35   future just in past dates you can throw [TS]

00:06:37   in the air see but then if it's months a [TS]

00:06:39   year how does [TS]

00:06:40   are you a programmer how are you a [TS]

00:06:42   basically a robot say for human [TS]

00:06:44   consumption for display purposes not for [TS]

00:06:46   naming your files not it's still day [TS]

00:06:48   month here [TS]

00:06:49   no you're saying month day year only [TS]

00:06:50   because it's what you're used to by [TS]

00:06:52   doing what you're doing it's like I do [TS]

00:06:53   I'm gonna do all my temperatures in [TS]

00:06:54   Celsius I can have all my conversations [TS]

00:06:56   in the United States and Celsius right [TS]

00:06:58   no Celsius is barbarian no but what I'm [TS]

00:07:01   saying is like in this country it's the [TS]

00:07:02   way we do it there's massive advantages [TS]

00:07:04   to doing a month day in this country [TS]

00:07:06   because everyone else other that way and [TS]

00:07:07   if you do it the reverse you will [TS]

00:07:08   confuse other people and potentially [TS]

00:07:10   also confuse yourself depending on [TS]

00:07:12   whether you remember if you wrote it or [TS]

00:07:13   not no I will I will concede that it is [TS]

00:07:16   unusual in this country however don't [TS]

00:07:18   you put that barbaric Celsius Celsius [TS]

00:07:21   nonsense on me don't you even start sir [TS]

00:07:24   Seifer sorry for the barbarism of [TS]

00:07:27   Celsius for human temperatures like were [TS]

00:07:29   you to use it you'd be swimming against [TS]

00:07:31   the tide in this country [TS]

00:07:32   sure and you'd have that same confusion [TS]

00:07:34   you should just use kelvins you don't [TS]

00:07:36   have that a degree symbol there's [TS]

00:07:37   problem solved all I'm saying is all I'm [TS]

00:07:40   saying is I can see an argument for [TS]

00:07:44   month to a year [TS]

00:07:44   you're wrong but I can see it but let me [TS]

00:07:47   make it plain that using Celsius for [TS]

00:07:50   human felt temperatures for ambient air [TS]

00:07:53   temperatures and only ambient air [TS]

00:07:55   temperatures is utterly ridiculous and [TS]

00:07:58   all of you heathens in Europe who say [TS]

00:08:00   otherwise are unequivocally wrong look [TS]

00:08:03   at the scale zero you're it's it's cold [TS]

00:08:06   ish a hundred you're dead yeah there's [TS]

00:08:09   that famous gif [TS]

00:08:10   right it's not even if it's just an [TS]

00:08:12   image and Fahrenheit can be encoded as [TS]

00:08:14   it gets zero zero is really really cold [TS]

00:08:18   100 is really really hot that's all you [TS]

00:08:21   need to know for ambient air 10 such a [TS]

00:08:23   millennial is not animated like triple [TS]

00:08:32   taken I like breaking my brain sorry [TS]

00:08:37   John [TS]

00:08:38   I'm sorry we're kids anyway suffice to [TS]

00:08:41   say we can be I can I can allow an [TS]

00:08:44   argument that 80 I can allow the 8601 [TS]

00:08:46   argument I think you're wrong I can [TS]

00:08:48   allow the month/day/year argument I [TS]

00:08:49   think you're wrong but we should all [TS]

00:08:51   agree the official ATP stance on Celsius [TS]

00:08:54   is [TS]

00:08:54   it is utterly preposterous and wrong for [TS]

00:08:57   ambient air temperature you want to talk [TS]

00:08:58   science e things well you should be [TS]

00:08:59   using Kelvin but fine use Celsius but [TS]

00:09:02   for ambient air temperature it is wrong [TS]

00:09:05   in Europe should be ashamed let's move [TS]

00:09:07   on and let's start with some follow up [TS]

00:09:09   the route blog post in the dev forums [TS]

00:09:12   that was the dev forums not the support [TS]

00:09:16   forums and one or all of us got that [TS]

00:09:18   backwards last week that was my bed I [TS]

00:09:20   think we all start off saying the right [TS]

00:09:22   thing but I very quickly shifted into [TS]

00:09:24   talking about the support forums so the [TS]

00:09:26   developer forums you have to be a [TS]

00:09:28   registered Apple developer to even see [TS]

00:09:30   them like they're actually authentic [TS]

00:09:31   kids they're not open to the public they [TS]

00:09:32   are still pretty noisy and it's also [TS]

00:09:35   true that they are not a hey Apple come [TS]

00:09:37   help me with my problem thing like it is [TS]

00:09:39   other developers talking to other [TS]

00:09:40   developers and you have you know DTS [TS]

00:09:42   support incidents or whatever for actual [TS]

00:09:45   you know you pay money and then Apple [TS]

00:09:47   can help you with stuff so some of what [TS]

00:09:49   we said is true but it's important not [TS]

00:09:51   to confuse the two types of forums the [TS]

00:09:54   completely wide open public support [TS]

00:09:56   forums or high volume and very noisy and [TS]

00:09:58   people talk about all sorts of things [TS]

00:10:00   dev warms are less so alright and [TS]

00:10:02   related apparently Gregory Beatty [TS]

00:10:04   emailed product security at Apple calm [TS]

00:10:07   about this bug on November 12th do you [TS]

00:10:09   want to tell us about this yeah it's a [TS]

00:10:12   lot of people asking about you know [TS]

00:10:13   should Apple be poring over their forums [TS]

00:10:16   or having some one or more employees [TS]

00:10:19   look at all that both the dev forms out [TS]

00:10:21   of the support forum so they can see [TS]

00:10:22   these bugs ahead of times and a lot of [TS]

00:10:23   people saying uh posting us on Twitter [TS]

00:10:25   isn't the way you're supposed to [TS]

00:10:26   disclose this blah blah blah what you're [TS]

00:10:28   supposed to do is email product security [TS]

00:10:30   the Apple comm and turns out somebody [TS]

00:10:32   did actually do exactly the right thing [TS]

00:10:34   which is the email product security [TS]

00:10:35   Apple to come about this exact bug on [TS]

00:10:37   November 12th which was a long time ago [TS]

00:10:39   and I don't know if they just have a big [TS]

00:10:42   backlog or didn't get to it or knew [TS]

00:10:44   about it but we're hoping they could [TS]

00:10:46   just sweep it under the rug until their [TS]

00:10:49   fix came out in a later update I don't [TS]

00:10:51   know what the story is but I thought it [TS]

00:10:53   was interesting that for all the yelling [TS]

00:10:55   about the right and wrong way to report [TS]

00:10:57   bugs in the right and wrong way for [TS]

00:10:59   Apple to know about them this particular [TS]

00:11:01   bug long before it was widely publicized [TS]

00:11:04   and long before I was fixed was [TS]

00:11:06   submitted to Apple [TS]

00:11:07   in the correct way excellent the [TS]

00:11:11   quote-unquote correct way because [TS]

00:11:12   there's some argument that like oh you [TS]

00:11:14   have to you know like responsible [TS]

00:11:17   disclosure or whatever where you tell [TS]

00:11:18   the the source of the bug about it first [TS]

00:11:21   secretly to give them a chance to fix it [TS]

00:11:23   and only if they don't fix it after a [TS]

00:11:24   long long time do you go into public [TS]

00:11:26   versus quote-unquote irresponsible [TS]

00:11:28   disclosure where you just tell it to the [TS]

00:11:29   public before you know at the same time [TS]

00:11:31   the vendor finds out the public does and [TS]

00:11:34   there is some debate about what actually [TS]

00:11:36   is the the best way to do that because [TS]

00:11:38   obviously if you hear they she's like oh [TS]

00:11:40   well of course responsible disclosure [TS]

00:11:41   where you tell the vendor first that's [TS]

00:11:43   the way to do it because it protects the [TS]

00:11:44   most people you don't want the bad guys [TS]

00:11:45   that'll blah blah blah but the the [TS]

00:11:47   problem with that approach in the past [TS]

00:11:48   has been the defenders are like oh thank [TS]

00:11:50   you for telling us we'll fix it when we [TS]

00:11:52   get to it and then you're sit there [TS]

00:11:54   waiting go like how long do I have to [TS]

00:11:56   wait before you know like maybe the bad [TS]

00:11:58   guys already know about this just [TS]

00:11:59   because I didn't tell the bad guys [TS]

00:12:01   doesn't mean they don't just because I [TS]

00:12:02   discovered it maybe they discovered it [TS]

00:12:03   now too and so you're waiting come on [TS]

00:12:04   come on fix the bug fix the bug then you [TS]

00:12:06   have to know how long do I wait before [TS]

00:12:07   it's okay for me to say in public like [TS]

00:12:09   what this thing is you know and there's [TS]

00:12:12   was an article about it a couple years [TS]

00:12:14   ago which was about the much more [TS]

00:12:16   bureaucratic process of submitting [TS]

00:12:17   things rather than the informal just [TS]

00:12:19   email Apple policy but I'm not and I'm [TS]

00:12:23   not entirely sure that the in in this [TS]

00:12:26   world where information is you know so [TS]

00:12:29   widely shared and it's so difficult to [TS]

00:12:32   know what other people know like how [TS]

00:12:35   long have you know blackhat hackers [TS]

00:12:37   known about this bug we don't know and [TS]

00:12:39   they're not going to tell us and you [TS]

00:12:43   don't want the one thing we have learned [TS]

00:12:44   from these type of incidents is that [TS]

00:12:46   widespread publication of a bug gets it [TS]

00:12:49   fixed really fast and submitting it [TS]

00:12:51   through the proper channels does not [TS]

00:12:53   always get it fixed really fast so I'm [TS]

00:12:54   not quite sure what the right thing to [TS]

00:12:56   do here is it's not not clear-cut all [TS]

00:12:59   right do you want to tell us about what [TS]

00:13:00   Shawn writes about X protect s protect I [TS]

00:13:03   think is the either the internal or [TS]

00:13:05   external both names of the malware [TS]

00:13:08   system that Apple has on Mac OS where [TS]

00:13:10   they have signatures of malware and they [TS]

00:13:12   periodically update that behind the [TS]

00:13:14   scenes without you knowing about it and [TS]

00:13:15   I think I mentioned in the show like you [TS]

00:13:18   don't even know that it's happening like [TS]

00:13:19   they're updating that malware whenever [TS]

00:13:21   the heck [TS]

00:13:21   feel like it and you have no choice in [TS]

00:13:23   the matter oh I think you can actually [TS]

00:13:25   disable it or whatever but on a default [TS]

00:13:26   system you are getting these updates [TS]

00:13:28   whether you like it or not unless you go [TS]

00:13:29   into the system preferences turn off a [TS]

00:13:31   little checkbox that says you get these [TS]

00:13:33   updates but if you're wondering when [TS]

00:13:35   they happen people are actually keeping [TS]

00:13:37   track of it and you can look at this [TS]

00:13:38   website we'll put a link in the show [TS]

00:13:40   notes it tells you when the updates are [TS]

00:13:43   and what things they protect against and [TS]

00:13:46   there's even a little shell script it [TS]

00:13:49   will tell you the last time it updated [TS]

00:13:50   on your computer that you can run [TS]

00:13:52   excellent all right so Ian Williamson [TS]

00:13:56   writes in and says that someone who's [TS]

00:13:58   previously had to join all of our [TS]

00:14:00   company Macs to Active Directory in [TS]

00:14:02   order to enforce corporate security [TS]

00:14:03   policies I wanted to confirm that yes it [TS]

00:14:05   causes a multitude of issues resulting [TS]

00:14:07   in these spinnings beat beach ball [TS]

00:14:08   recently though we're starting to [TS]

00:14:10   disconnect them all and replace that [TS]

00:14:11   with an apple tool called Enterprise [TS]

00:14:13   Connect which communicates with AD in a [TS]

00:14:14   much looser fashion so in case you're [TS]

00:14:17   not aware because your name is Marco or [TS]

00:14:19   you don't really have a real job Active [TS]

00:14:22   Directory is the I'm sure there's a term [TS]

00:14:25   for is it LDAP I don't even know but [TS]

00:14:26   it's it's the system by which many many [TS]

00:14:29   many many corporate environments manage [TS]

00:14:31   users and it's a Microsoft system and it [TS]

00:14:35   does not typically play terribly well [TS]

00:14:37   with Mac's which i think is slightly [TS]

00:14:39   Omak written like Microsoft's shoulders [TS]

00:14:41   but is largely on Apple's shoulders and [TS]

00:14:45   so I know that my IT guy at my work has [TS]

00:14:50   been complaining and moaning about [TS]

00:14:51   Apple's implementation of Active [TS]

00:14:53   Directory particularly recently because [TS]

00:14:55   I think they might have redone it or [TS]

00:14:56   something it has caused him no endless [TS]

00:14:59   amount of woes and he is actively [TS]

00:15:02   inquiring about this enterprise connect [TS]

00:15:04   thing that apparently is only given to [TS]

00:15:05   the coolest of of clients of apples so I [TS]

00:15:08   don't know if you guys have anything to [TS]

00:15:10   add on that I'm sure Marco you do so [TS]

00:15:11   let's start with you I really don't this [TS]

00:15:14   is an entire world that I know nothing [TS]

00:15:17   about and I'm very happy to continue [TS]

00:15:20   knowing nothing about I wish I could do [TS]

00:15:22   that too but alas I cannot response to [TS]

00:15:25   me guessing why my computer was like [TS]

00:15:27   slow to wake and I got beach balls all [TS]

00:15:30   the time [TS]

00:15:31   I was attributing to Active Directory [TS]

00:15:32   mostly because I had previously had a [TS]

00:15:34   Mac that was not on the Active Directory [TS]

00:15:36   network and it was just so it was like a [TS]

00:15:38   normal Mac like a normal it was a [TS]

00:15:39   desktop too so that also helps waking [TS]

00:15:43   from sleep and it was immediately ready [TS]

00:15:44   to go and anyway I was blaming [TS]

00:15:46   activators [TS]

00:15:47   I think it was Marco suggested turning [TS]

00:15:50   off power nap [TS]

00:15:51   and and hibernate and I did that it did [TS]

00:15:53   not really make any change as far as I [TS]

00:15:57   can tell so I think my computer was not [TS]

00:15:59   hibernating and power nap was not an [TS]

00:16:01   issue I still you know I left the lid I [TS]

00:16:05   close the lid walk to my next meeting [TS]

00:16:07   sit down open the lid and there's a [TS]

00:16:09   fairly long period of time sometimes a [TS]

00:16:11   long period time before I can even log [TS]

00:16:12   in either with touch ID or otherwise I [TS]

00:16:14   usually give up on touch ID after I put [TS]

00:16:16   my finger there for a while and nothing [TS]

00:16:18   has happened and then I type my password [TS]

00:16:19   nothing also happens like I don't even [TS]

00:16:21   see the little dots appear on the screen [TS]

00:16:22   but very often it has registered my [TS]

00:16:25   typed password and if I just wait [TS]

00:16:27   including the return key that I hit and [TS]

00:16:29   if I just wait and wait and eventually [TS]

00:16:31   it will unlock and then I'll try to do [TS]

00:16:32   something that I'll get a beach ball so [TS]

00:16:33   I blame salon active directory and Ian [TS]

00:16:36   was writing him to talk about this [TS]

00:16:37   enterprise connect thing which is turn [TS]

00:16:39   to make a looser coupling between active [TS]

00:16:40   active directory here's the thing I [TS]

00:16:43   don't I don't know almost anything about [TS]

00:16:45   Active Directory other than the fact [TS]

00:16:47   that I am subjected to it I don't know [TS]

00:16:50   if my company my company might already [TS]

00:16:53   be using Enterprise Connect I might be [TS]

00:16:54   using the good version like for all I [TS]

00:16:56   know it is worse for people who are not [TS]

00:16:58   using Enterprise Connect so I really [TS]

00:16:59   have honestly no way of knowing whether [TS]

00:17:01   I'm currently using Enterprise Connect [TS]

00:17:03   or not if I'm not I would love for my [TS]

00:17:04   company to use it but somehow I don't [TS]

00:17:07   think that's in the cards because in [TS]

00:17:10   general like this time and the grand [TS]

00:17:12   scheme of things complaining that your [TS]

00:17:14   computer takes a while before you can [TS]

00:17:15   use it when you open the lid and you [TS]

00:17:16   know it's not that long it's like you [TS]

00:17:18   know maybe 20 seconds that is a [TS]

00:17:20   complaint that is probably falling on [TS]

00:17:22   deaf ears in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:17:23   enterprise IT I just kind of wish I [TS]

00:17:25   didn't have to deal with it we respond [TS]

00:17:29   to this week by fracture beautiful photo [TS]

00:17:31   prints directly on glass visit fractured [TS]

00:17:34   on me and save 15% off your first order [TS]

00:17:36   with code ATP 17 fracture prints look [TS]

00:17:40   amazing you know you should get your [TS]

00:17:42   photos printed sometimes because [TS]

00:17:44   if you just post them online like most [TS]

00:17:46   of us do after 12 hours they're off [TS]

00:17:48   everyone's timelines you'll never see [TS]

00:17:49   them again but if you get them printed [TS]

00:17:51   you have an actual artifact that you can [TS]

00:17:53   hang up in your house or prop up on your [TS]

00:17:55   desk or even better give it as a gift to [TS]

00:17:57   someone who will really enjoy it and [TS]

00:17:59   this could be something traditional like [TS]

00:18:00   giving grandparents pictures of their [TS]

00:18:02   grandchildren and their grandpa peas or [TS]

00:18:04   it can be something fun that you do with [TS]

00:18:06   your friends like maybe you send each [TS]

00:18:07   other pictures that you that are inside [TS]

00:18:09   jokes to you that you find funny or just [TS]

00:18:11   pictures and fun times you had together [TS]

00:18:13   family friends co-workers whoever it is [TS]

00:18:16   they make wonderful gifts and fracture [TS]

00:18:18   knows this so do a lot of other people [TS]

00:18:20   so if you want to get it done in time [TS]

00:18:22   for the holidays please place your [TS]

00:18:23   orders now because here's the thing [TS]

00:18:25   every fracture they care a lot about [TS]

00:18:27   quality so every fracture is handmade by [TS]

00:18:30   human beings in Gainesville Florida [TS]

00:18:32   right here right in the US they are a [TS]

00:18:34   green company operating a carbon-neutral [TS]

00:18:36   factory they do things very very well [TS]

00:18:37   but what this means having all this [TS]

00:18:39   human you know hand involvement here is [TS]

00:18:41   that the holidays they get backed up [TS]

00:18:42   sometimes and so it's pretty close to [TS]

00:18:45   the holidays now they are already [TS]

00:18:47   starting to get a large volume of orders [TS]

00:18:49   in if you want a gift in time for the [TS]

00:18:51   holidays from fracture with which I [TS]

00:18:53   strongly recommend because these prints [TS]

00:18:54   look great they go edge to edge they're [TS]

00:18:56   printed right on glass you don't need to [TS]

00:18:58   frame them they fit well with any decor [TS]

00:19:00   they just look awesome modern clean [TS]

00:19:03   high-quality great colors great contrast [TS]

00:19:05   so you want these things but you got to [TS]

00:19:08   place those holiday orders now please [TS]

00:19:10   don't wait if you want them in front of [TS]

00:19:11   the holidays place those orders now [TS]

00:19:13   they are wonderful so check them out [TS]

00:19:16   today at fractured me and save 15% off [TS]

00:19:19   your first order with code ATP 17 if [TS]

00:19:21   they ask you where you came from make [TS]

00:19:23   sure to tell them you came from our ATP [TS]

00:19:25   our wonderful podcast here so fractured [TS]

00:19:28   on me and save 15% off your first order [TS]

00:19:30   with code ATP 17 thank you so much to [TS]

00:19:33   fracture for sponsoring our show last [TS]

00:19:38   week I got just a little bit fired up [TS]

00:19:41   with regard to the keyboard behavior on [TS]

00:19:44   iOS I have two pieces of follow-up about [TS]

00:19:48   this number one I had assumed it was all [TS]

00:19:50   me and that I'm just inept and I had a [TS]

00:19:54   tremendous amount of people write in to [TS]

00:19:56   say no no it's not just you [TS]

00:19:58   it's become hot garbage now nobody could [TS]

00:20:01   agree on when this happened a lot of [TS]

00:20:04   people said the same thing I did which [TS]

00:20:05   was right around iOS or I'm sorry it was [TS]

00:20:08   iPhone 6 ish whatever iOS was around [TS]

00:20:11   that time some people have said no no [TS]

00:20:14   it's actually with iOS 11 which I [TS]

00:20:15   disagree with but a lot of people said [TS]

00:20:18   no no you are not alone I cannot type my [TS]

00:20:22   type of my phone anymore that being said [TS]

00:20:25   I have been mildly browbeat by my curly [TS]

00:20:28   to try G board which is Google's third [TS]

00:20:30   party keyboard which is pretty good but [TS]

00:20:34   I haven't trying that and when I am [TS]

00:20:36   typing rather than swiping I feel like [TS]

00:20:40   it's not any better which makes me think [TS]

00:20:42   this is a KC problem not an iOS problem [TS]

00:20:45   and apparently it's also a tons and tons [TS]

00:20:47   of listeners problem all at the same [TS]

00:20:49   time because if I can't type on on the [TS]

00:20:53   Google keyboard and I can't type on the [TS]

00:20:56   Apple keyboard then that makes me think [TS]

00:20:59   I'm the problem or perhaps it was that [TS]

00:21:02   Apple was uniquely good at figuring out [TS]

00:21:05   what I meant and auto correcting things [TS]

00:21:08   or perhaps the the touch targets were [TS]

00:21:11   uniquely good at being the way I [TS]

00:21:14   expected them to be and now they're not [TS]

00:21:16   like somebody had suggested I don't [TS]

00:21:18   remember who it was that maybe their [TS]

00:21:21   touch targets got way bigger when [TS]

00:21:24   they're predicting what you're gonna [TS]

00:21:25   type so like let's say I'm typing the [TS]

00:21:27   word there th e re then as so I type th [TS]

00:21:31   e and the touch target for the letter R [TS]

00:21:34   because you know Apple thinks oh my [TS]

00:21:36   Betty's gonna type in R the touch target [TS]

00:21:38   for R is just mammoth and if I'm trying [TS]

00:21:40   to type they then maybe I'll get the th [TS]

00:21:44   er instead does that make any sense it's [TS]

00:21:46   a very it's very hard to paint this word [TS]

00:21:48   picture but what I'm driving at is no [TS]

00:21:50   predictive touch target enlargement is [TS]

00:21:52   is a possible explanation though that is [TS]

00:21:56   completely supposition and I have no [TS]

00:21:58   facts to indicate that's that's true but [TS]

00:22:00   in any case one way or another I've been [TS]

00:22:02   trying G board and it's not really [TS]

00:22:04   working for me so far so it makes me [TS]

00:22:06   think it's a KC problem but I don't know [TS]

00:22:08   if you guys have any feedback on this [TS]

00:22:09   one [TS]

00:22:10   that means it's the case problems like [TS]

00:22:11   you said that G board is a totally [TS]

00:22:12   different keyboard right so that you we [TS]

00:22:15   have no idea what if how you how you are [TS]

00:22:18   typing on keyboard but you like you you [TS]

00:22:20   have the feeling and many many other [TS]

00:22:22   people who wrote and also have the [TS]

00:22:23   feeling that they were previously better [TS]

00:22:25   typing on the Apple keyboard and the [TS]

00:22:27   weird thing about the feedback like I [TS]

00:22:28   put it in here is like basically that [TS]

00:22:30   you're not alone but incredible variance [TS]

00:22:33   in the people people some people saying [TS]

00:22:34   it started two years ago it started with [TS]

00:22:36   iOS 10 yeah it started when I changed to [TS]

00:22:39   a bigger phone and start when I change [TS]

00:22:40   to a smaller phone and I don't know if [TS]

00:22:42   you just tap into some sort of like [TS]

00:22:45   deterioration of mass deterioration of [TS]

00:22:48   typing skills because it doesn't seem to [TS]

00:22:50   be any common thread like not it's not [TS]

00:22:52   like everyone agreed that iOS 11 hos [TS]

00:22:54   that there was not that agreement but [TS]

00:22:56   lots of people really feel like they are [TS]

00:22:57   now worse at typing than the use maybe [TS]

00:22:59   they're just all getting older and it's [TS]

00:23:01   like one of the first places that [TS]

00:23:01   they're noticing that they're getting [TS]

00:23:03   older what the only thing I saw that I [TS]

00:23:05   think could be attributable to software [TS]

00:23:10   is people complaining about autocorrect [TS]

00:23:13   going behind them and changing their [TS]

00:23:15   last three or something nonsensical and [TS]

00:23:18   I've noticed that as well and I think [TS]

00:23:19   that is a new software edition where it [TS]

00:23:22   previously didn't used to like once you [TS]

00:23:23   moved on from something that be like oh [TS]

00:23:25   that's fine but now it has like some [TS]

00:23:26   kind of thing where reconsiders the last [TS]

00:23:28   five words you've written and says oh I [TS]

00:23:30   see you were probably trying to work [TS]

00:23:32   this write this sequence of nonsense [TS]

00:23:33   five words and it goes back and corrects [TS]

00:23:35   them and that people find infuriating [TS]

00:23:37   and if you're getting so do I yep [TS]

00:23:39   completely agreed I'm glad you brought [TS]

00:23:41   that up because I'd forgotten about that [TS]

00:23:42   and yes I've seen that behavior and it [TS]

00:23:45   is driving me bananas [TS]

00:23:47   Marco any thoughts about this point move [TS]

00:23:49   on I mean iOS changes autocorrect [TS]

00:23:51   behavior in lots of versions like you [TS]

00:23:54   know I'm sure iOS 10 changed in one way [TS]

00:23:56   I always loved and changed at different [TS]

00:23:57   ways now does like the machine learning [TS]

00:23:59   to predict difference or privacy [TS]

00:24:00   Corrections that are resulting in really [TS]

00:24:03   embarrassing bugs like that you know I [TS]

00:24:04   turning into the a box thing and and the [TS]

00:24:07   IT from it thing they're gonna work it [TS]

00:24:11   out you know I hope they do but you know [TS]

00:24:13   there's definitely changes here but [TS]

00:24:15   there's been changed before and they've [TS]

00:24:16   worked it out the only other thing I [TS]

00:24:18   could think of it might be a factor for [TS]

00:24:19   you is that you're also on an iPhone 10 [TS]

00:24:21   now because a different physical size [TS]

00:24:22   than what you were you [TS]

00:24:23   for the last few years and so that's [TS]

00:24:25   also probably contributing to just it's [TS]

00:24:27   different and your body has to get used [TS]

00:24:29   to it it could be but I mean this has [TS]

00:24:31   been happening since before the switch [TS]

00:24:33   that's what I mentioned last week that [TS]

00:24:36   are you sure it's not the size in case [TS]

00:24:37   he said well it could be but there are [TS]

00:24:39   other factors as well and everyone else [TS]

00:24:41   was said who complained about it was [TS]

00:24:43   very adamant that no it's not the size [TS]

00:24:44   except for the few people who said it [TS]

00:24:46   was the size but yeah it's it's it's [TS]

00:24:48   difficult in this type of thing because [TS]

00:24:50   even if it's not machine learning like [TS]

00:24:52   yeah the machine learning is the type of [TS]

00:24:55   thing where it's not like a human [TS]

00:24:56   program the exact set of rules for it to [TS]

00:24:58   behave it's supposed to learn on its own [TS]

00:25:00   and improve so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:25:01   know exactly how its behaving because [TS]

00:25:02   it's very much data-driven but even in [TS]

00:25:05   the rules based ones if the rules are [TS]

00:25:06   complicated enough and changed often [TS]

00:25:08   enough it still doesn't really help you [TS]

00:25:10   nail down [TS]

00:25:10   is this a better system than the one [TS]

00:25:13   that preceded it did it did our tweak to [TS]

00:25:15   this set of static rules help or hurt [TS]

00:25:17   it's kind of I mean I'm not sure how [TS]

00:25:20   you'd even measure that it's like a [TS]

00:25:22   satisfaction what typing satisfaction [TS]

00:25:24   measurement you just use face ID to look [TS]

00:25:26   at the person's face and see if they're [TS]

00:25:27   making a face like they just smelled [TS]

00:25:30   something gross as they're trying to [TS]

00:25:31   type Wow [TS]

00:25:34   speaking of smelling something gross [TS]

00:25:35   tell me about your touch bar you don't [TS]

00:25:40   smell the Dutch bar but do touch the [TS]

00:25:42   globe don't smell the globe smell the [TS]

00:25:44   glove [TS]

00:25:44   sniff the glove come on chat room help [TS]

00:25:46   me I'm old and my brain doesn't work I [TS]

00:25:48   have no idea what you're talking about [TS]

00:25:49   yeah I noticed I didn't even bother [TS]

00:25:51   asking you to yeah well that was wise [TS]

00:25:53   you know as well smell the glove okay [TS]

00:25:55   thank you I feel a little bit better [TS]

00:26:00   final tap yeah still not your scene that [TS]

00:26:04   I should turn it up to 11 what I do yeah [TS]

00:26:07   there you go you know something's wrong [TS]

00:26:08   so I just wanted to mark this this point [TS]

00:26:12   in time where I got my 20 17 touch bar [TS]

00:26:15   micro whenever it was a couple months [TS]

00:26:17   ago and I've been using it and I do [TS]

00:26:19   despite the fact that's mostly in [TS]

00:26:20   clamshell on my desk want to go to [TS]

00:26:22   meetings and travel around the office I [TS]

00:26:23   do use it as an actual laptop and I [TS]

00:26:26   really feel like I've given the touch [TS]

00:26:27   bar you know a fair shake despite [TS]

00:26:31   continuing day the escape button or lack [TS]

00:26:34   thereof but I finally [TS]

00:26:37   did something that I've wanted to do [TS]

00:26:39   since they want but I've been resisting [TS]

00:26:40   which has changed that preference in the [TS]

00:26:43   keyboard settings that tells it to like [TS]

00:26:47   the default setting is allow [TS]

00:26:49   applications to change the touch bar so [TS]

00:26:50   that when you're in Safari you see like [TS]

00:26:52   safaris thumbnails and when you're in [TS]

00:26:53   mail you see like the mail buttons and [TS]

00:26:54   all that stuff right there's actually a [TS]

00:26:56   setting in System Preferences and the [TS]

00:26:58   keyboard system preference it says don't [TS]

00:27:01   do that just show me the like the system [TS]

00:27:05   controls all the time so the function [TS]

00:27:07   keys and media control and the sound [TS]

00:27:10   things basically making it like a little [TS]

00:27:11   static graphical version of the regular [TS]

00:27:14   keys that are on the MacBook Escape and [TS]

00:27:16   I read isn't doing that because like [TS]

00:27:18   look if you're going to give the touch [TS]

00:27:19   bar a fair shake use it how it's [TS]

00:27:21   supposed to be used use it in the [TS]

00:27:22   default settings allow the applications [TS]

00:27:24   to do all their stuff with it this who [TS]

00:27:25   knows maybe there's some application [TS]

00:27:26   that you use that you'll find the touch [TS]

00:27:27   bar really useful and that was not the [TS]

00:27:30   case and so and I was finding it [TS]

00:27:33   distracting as the touch bar like [TS]

00:27:34   changed from thing to thing as that like [TS]

00:27:36   command tabbed around and so I just [TS]

00:27:38   changed it to be static now so now I'm [TS]

00:27:40   effectively using little pictures of [TS]

00:27:42   keys that never change and I still wish [TS]

00:27:46   they were regular keys so I put me down [TS]

00:27:47   in the category of I can't say I'm an T [TS]

00:27:51   touch bar because I just don't like [TS]

00:27:52   laptops and so if I had to buy a laptop [TS]

00:27:55   it having a touch bar or not probably be [TS]

00:27:57   the least of my concerns but I didn't [TS]

00:28:00   find a place for the touch bar in my [TS]

00:28:03   life I just don't find myself looking at [TS]

00:28:06   that part of the machine when I'm using [TS]

00:28:08   it at all and maybe it's just because I [TS]

00:28:10   have all habits or whatever but it [TS]

00:28:11   didn't work out for me you were you were [TS]

00:28:15   talking with some people in one of the [TS]

00:28:17   slacks that were in together and you [TS]

00:28:20   were talking about uh it wasn't window [TS]

00:28:23   shade but I can't think of what it was [TS]

00:28:24   so let's just call it window shade and [TS]

00:28:26   you were talking about you know how you [TS]

00:28:28   still have window shade enabled again it [TS]

00:28:30   wasn't literally window shade but you [TS]

00:28:32   have window shade enabled even to this [TS]

00:28:33   day because you can't live without it [TS]

00:28:35   this example people gonna think I've run [TS]

00:28:37   window shade let's be clear I do not [TS]

00:28:39   well yeah I know but I can't remember [TS]

00:28:41   what the hell you talking about a [TS]

00:28:43   classic Mac window layering that's gotta [TS]

00:28:45   be it right maybe I don't know it [TS]

00:28:47   doesn't really matter the point of [TS]

00:28:48   driving it I think it's [TS]

00:28:49   like window layering if I remember the [TS]

00:28:51   conversation Greg there's people don't [TS]

00:28:52   know what that is but anyway I'm pretty [TS]

00:28:53   sure that's what it was so do you want [TS]

00:28:54   to briefly describe what that is then [TS]

00:28:56   that's just when you when you click a [TS]

00:28:57   window and classic Mac OS any window on [TS]

00:29:00   the screen if the window belongs to a [TS]

00:29:01   different application than the frontmost [TS]

00:29:03   one like an app when it belongs to an [TS]

00:29:06   application that's not currently the [TS]

00:29:07   active one [TS]

00:29:08   it doesn't just bring that window to the [TS]

00:29:10   front it brings that window and all the [TS]

00:29:12   other windows owned by that application [TS]

00:29:13   to the front and that's how I you know [TS]

00:29:17   use the Mac for 16 years before Mac OS [TS]

00:29:19   10 came along that way and that's how I [TS]

00:29:21   like to use it and so I've during the [TS]

00:29:25   entire life of Mac OS 10 and on Mac OS [TS]

00:29:28   there have been various utilities that [TS]

00:29:29   would change the window server behavior [TS]

00:29:31   to act that way but in the Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:29:36   timeline not only do you get that [TS]

00:29:39   feature but you also most of the [TS]

00:29:42   utilities I've use have allowed you to [TS]

00:29:43   get back the other behavior because [TS]

00:29:44   maybe you show it behaviors I'm like oh [TS]

00:29:46   what if I just want wind one window to [TS]

00:29:47   come to the front that behavior is it's [TS]

00:29:49   not what I want at all all right it's [TS]

00:29:51   just a matter of what you prefer because [TS]

00:29:52   with the tools that I use you're just [TS]

00:29:56   changing what the default is so for me [TS]

00:29:57   shift click brings a single window to [TS]

00:29:59   the front and just regular click blings [TS]

00:30:00   all the windows have long to that [TS]

00:30:02   application to the front and some people [TS]

00:30:04   may like you to reverse where a regular [TS]

00:30:06   click just brings that one window and [TS]

00:30:07   then some modifier click brings all the [TS]

00:30:09   windows or maybe you never want all the [TS]

00:30:10   windows to come but how I work based on [TS]

00:30:13   my habits [TS]

00:30:13   I want the default to be all windows [TS]

00:30:15   come to the front so I still do that I [TS]

00:30:16   didn't even know like yes she [TS]

00:30:19   shift-click doesn't do it by default it [TS]

00:30:21   doesn't seem but anyway no no is the [TS]

00:30:22   utility I think I'm using drag thing to [TS]

00:30:24   do it right now but it's very I think [TS]

00:30:26   native like the regular Mac out of the [TS]

00:30:29   box doesn't have a way for you to bring [TS]

00:30:31   all the windows to the front other than [TS]

00:30:32   clicking like a dock icon or whatever [TS]

00:30:33   like there's no modifier click on a [TS]

00:30:35   window to noon I think in any case the [TS]

00:30:38   reason I bring all this up is because it [TS]

00:30:41   struck me hearing you talk about this [TS]

00:30:44   that you and many other like old-school [TS]

00:30:48   Mac people created these habits over the [TS]

00:30:51   course of years that either because your [TS]

00:30:55   petulantly stubborn or just used to it [TS]

00:30:59   and probably both to be honest you just [TS]

00:31:02   can't break yourself of them and [TS]

00:31:03   I am glad that the list of things that I [TS]

00:31:08   have that are like that I feel like is [TS]

00:31:10   pretty small not to be fair Oh a young [TS]

00:31:12   child yes you think it's the little [TS]

00:31:14   small because your world hasn't yet [TS]

00:31:15   changed wait until everyone's in VR and [TS]

00:31:18   you're gonna be like I insist on using [TS]

00:31:19   my fingers because I use my fingers for [TS]

00:31:21   a really long time and you know what and [TS]

00:31:23   to that end actually the obvious answer [TS]

00:31:25   to this is no case you still prefer max [TS]

00:31:27   so you're old and you're you're relying [TS]

00:31:28   on old technology so your point is fair [TS]

00:31:31   but it's just it's striking to me how [TS]

00:31:33   you don't really like new things John I [TS]

00:31:37   think you're taking the wrong lesson for [TS]

00:31:39   this lesson this is like what is the [TS]

00:31:41   advantage for me changing my habits [TS]

00:31:43   there has to be an advantage that's to [TS]

00:31:44   be a reason for me to train myself out [TS]

00:31:46   of doing something that one reason could [TS]

00:31:48   be that there is literally no way to do [TS]

00:31:49   it the old way so guess what like hey [TS]

00:31:51   that's the stick version you have no [TS]

00:31:53   choice there is no more of that thing so [TS]

00:31:55   forget about it and whatever but if [TS]

00:31:58   there is a way to do it it's you know it [TS]

00:32:00   strips like what is the cost of like [TS]

00:32:02   enabling this way is it some hack that [TS]

00:32:04   destroys your system stability is it [TS]

00:32:06   something that you have to maintain and [TS]

00:32:08   carefully like upgrade and compile from [TS]

00:32:10   open source software or is like [TS]

00:32:12   jailbreaking where every time a new OS [TS]

00:32:14   comes out you have to get a new [TS]

00:32:15   jailbreak or whatever like that would be [TS]

00:32:17   the cost and the benefit is you just get [TS]

00:32:18   to continue to use your old habits and [TS]

00:32:20   it's not just habits in the case of [TS]

00:32:22   winter layering the way I use Windows [TS]

00:32:24   like my entire system of you know [TS]

00:32:26   dealing with Windows like this is an [TS]

00:32:29   important part of it the fact that I can [TS]

00:32:30   grab a corner of a window that belongs [TS]

00:32:32   to an application and bring all the [TS]

00:32:34   windows of that application to the front [TS]

00:32:35   like I don't have an alternate way to [TS]

00:32:38   manage windows in that way like if I [TS]

00:32:40   want to bring all the windows at the [TS]

00:32:41   front I've got to go down to the dock [TS]

00:32:42   icon but that that breaks my whole [TS]

00:32:45   system of arranging windows you know [TS]

00:32:46   spatially to have to use them as sort of [TS]

00:32:49   grab handles and to have locality of [TS]

00:32:51   cursor and not to constantly have to go [TS]

00:32:52   down to the bottom of the screen or to [TS]

00:32:54   the right or to the left or whatever so [TS]

00:32:56   there are benefits to that system and [TS]

00:32:59   from for this particular feature the [TS]

00:33:02   drawbacks in terms of system stability [TS]

00:33:04   or maintenance of a weird program or [TS]

00:33:08   anything just haven't been there unlike [TS]

00:33:10   for example window shade which I ran for [TS]

00:33:11   a little while but eventually it was [TS]

00:33:13   clear that Apple was never going to add [TS]

00:33:15   it and you [TS]

00:33:15   really add that some really nasty hacks [TS]

00:33:17   to your system to use it so I I [TS]

00:33:18   abandoned window shade but this I didn't [TS]

00:33:21   abandon because it is a very minor [TS]

00:33:23   change very cleanly implemented by [TS]

00:33:25   multiple products that don't require any [TS]

00:33:28   hacks to my system whatsoever and so I [TS]

00:33:31   keep doing it so the lesson is not never [TS]

00:33:33   learned new things or don't pick up new [TS]

00:33:34   habit or whatever the lesson is you know [TS]

00:33:36   don't don't blindly abandon the old for [TS]

00:33:40   no benefit if there you know if it [TS]

00:33:43   continues to work for you yeah but the [TS]

00:33:45   benefit is not having to do any sort of [TS]

00:33:47   tweaking right like something that Dan [TS]

00:33:49   Benjamin said years and years and years [TS]

00:33:51   ago which I I don't a hundred percent [TS]

00:33:53   agree with but I understand his point [TS]

00:33:55   was that like one should embrace the [TS]

00:33:58   operating system defaults because it's [TS]

00:34:00   that much less tweaking and finagling in [TS]

00:34:02   messing about you need to do when you [TS]

00:34:05   get a new machine you know because you [TS]

00:34:07   can just accept the defaults and move on [TS]

00:34:09   and to be fair like I have a not [TS]

00:34:11   insignificant list of software that I [TS]

00:34:13   considered completely required for me to [TS]

00:34:15   use a computer for example Alfred for [TS]

00:34:18   example one password for example Dropbox [TS]

00:34:21   but in terms of like tweaking the system [TS]

00:34:24   I don't feel like I'm that particularly [TS]

00:34:27   needy I I say that because I'm probably [TS]

00:34:30   more needy than then I realized but I [TS]

00:34:32   don't think I'm that bad where is it [TS]

00:34:35   seems like John and maybe this is just [TS]

00:34:37   your advanced stage maybe it's your [TS]

00:34:40   advanced experience but the platform but [TS]

00:34:42   it seems like you're more needy in this [TS]

00:34:44   department than I am I think I'm using [TS]

00:34:46   less stuff than you as evidenced by my a [TS]

00:34:48   nice clean menubar but like but argument [TS]

00:34:53   only makes sense if you are forced to [TS]

00:34:54   live in a hotel environment where you [TS]

00:34:56   have to sit down in front of a fresh [TS]

00:34:57   computer every day and start your work [TS]

00:34:58   like we have migration assistant we have [TS]

00:35:00   upgrade installs of operating systems [TS]

00:35:02   like this is not an issue at all like I [TS]

00:35:04   don't spend time setting up my new Macs [TS]

00:35:06   like for the people who do that maybe [TS]

00:35:08   it's a fun thing they like to do well I [TS]

00:35:09   just wanna have a fresh system and reset [TS]

00:35:10   it up I never reset up a machine from [TS]

00:35:12   scratch I just I just do an upgrade [TS]

00:35:13   install or use migration assistant all [TS]

00:35:15   my stuff is already there and it's not [TS]

00:35:17   that much stuff and dragged thing I'm [TS]

00:35:19   running anyway because I like to have a [TS]

00:35:21   thing on the screen that I can click on [TS]

00:35:23   the just has applications in it doesn't [TS]

00:35:25   minimize windows or folders in it so I [TS]

00:35:27   use that as a separate application [TS]

00:35:29   separate from its functionality for the [TS]

00:35:32   window layering but it just happens to [TS]

00:35:33   also do window layering so I'm getting [TS]

00:35:34   two for one out of that particular [TS]

00:35:35   application but no there's not that much [TS]

00:35:38   stuff I have my favorite applications I [TS]

00:35:39   run I think it runs zero system hacks of [TS]

00:35:43   any kind anymore like like literally [TS]

00:35:45   zero like nothing is a kernel extension [TS]

00:35:49   or a symbol plug-in or anything like [TS]

00:35:51   that [TS]

00:35:51   I don't I run very few things that even [TS]

00:35:54   display in the menu bar I run favorite [TS]

00:35:56   applications I like BBEdit I like drag [TS]

00:35:59   thing which is the plain old application [TS]

00:36:01   with no weird hacks you know I run slack [TS]

00:36:03   like we all do whether we like it or not [TS]

00:36:05   I was gonna say do any of us really run [TS]

00:36:07   slack or to slack run us like it's it's [TS]

00:36:09   a yeah it's a it's a fairly clean set up [TS]

00:36:12   and as we all know it's not like I get [TS]

00:36:14   new Mac so often that I'm constantly [TS]

00:36:16   setting my handles everything for me [TS]

00:36:19   like honestly I don't I don't see any [TS]

00:36:21   particular advantage in being able to [TS]

00:36:22   stone and then in front of anybody's [TS]

00:36:25   random computer and be able to use it [TS]

00:36:27   comfortably because first of all it's [TS]

00:36:29   not true for almost anybody like if you [TS]

00:36:30   sit down there hit command space and [TS]

00:36:31   spotlight comes up what are you gonna do [TS]

00:36:32   where's your Alfred now right now like I [TS]

00:36:36   don't there's the whole point is it [TS]

00:36:38   except software you can install things [TS]

00:36:40   on it to make it nicer to use that's why [TS]

00:36:42   we like Mac's and so I have I attached [TS]

00:36:44   no benefit to being able to use a stock [TS]

00:36:47   Mac comfortably so do you have your [TS]

00:36:49   squirrel direction as natural or the [TS]

00:36:51   bogus old one I have the old way and [TS]

00:36:55   again it's a setting that I said once [TS]

00:36:57   back when they changed that setting like [TS]

00:36:58   seven years ago I've never touched the [TS]

00:37:00   setting again because it just migrates [TS]

00:37:01   from computer to computer like it's you [TS]

00:37:03   know how long did you try natural [TS]

00:37:05   scrolling John no not at all like what's [TS]

00:37:07   the benefit huh Apple added the option [TS]

00:37:09   for that why would I try it like they [TS]

00:37:12   you know it's not Apple at the option so [TS]

00:37:14   I didn't feel like I had to run in the [TS]

00:37:15   ax it happily takes away the option [TS]

00:37:17   guess what I'm gonna switch scroll [TS]

00:37:18   directions because what the hell choice [TS]

00:37:19   do I have [TS]

00:37:19   right but they haven't taken it away [TS]

00:37:21   it's still there and I can I click that [TS]

00:37:22   checkbox once many many years ago and I [TS]

00:37:25   never think about it again so Marco are [TS]

00:37:28   you natural scrolling or no didn't we [TS]

00:37:30   talk about this recently I thought we [TS]

00:37:31   did I thought we did but I couldn't [TS]

00:37:32   remember the I did but Casey tends to [TS]

00:37:34   forget yeah I'm also old scrolling [TS]

00:37:36   because for the same reason that [TS]

00:37:38   basically like [TS]

00:37:39   I like I tried I tried natural scrolling [TS]

00:37:40   when that option came out for like a [TS]

00:37:42   half a day and I was like nope because [TS]

00:37:43   god you're both sold for the same reason [TS]

00:37:46   no because for the same reason I was [TS]

00:37:47   already used to it and there was no [TS]

00:37:48   pressure to actually change so it's like [TS]

00:37:50   why should I go through the hassle of [TS]

00:37:52   relearning this when I don't actually [TS]

00:37:53   have to and maybe down the road I will [TS]

00:37:55   have to but when that happens I'll learn [TS]

00:37:57   it until then I don't want to and do you [TS]

00:38:00   spend time click on that checkbox lot no [TS]

00:38:01   you do it once and that's it even if the [TS]

00:38:04   frequency I buy new max it isn't a big [TS]

00:38:06   problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

00:38:10   aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

00:38:12   go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

00:38:15   aftershokz headphones worked by a bone [TS]

00:38:17   conduction this means small transducers [TS]

00:38:19   rest in front of your ears not inside or [TS]

00:38:21   around them like most headphones and [TS]

00:38:23   they send tiny vibrations through your [TS]

00:38:25   cheek bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

00:38:27   totally bypass in your ears themselves [TS]

00:38:29   so unlike every other kind of headphone [TS]

00:38:31   bone conduction leave your ears [TS]

00:38:32   completely open with nothing plugging [TS]

00:38:35   them up or going around them so this is [TS]

00:38:37   great first of all for comfort for me at [TS]

00:38:39   least I can't wear things that go in my [TS]

00:38:41   ear they just hurt after socks don't [TS]

00:38:43   have that problem they're also great for [TS]

00:38:45   exercise and hot weather because they [TS]

00:38:47   don't have some kind of giant ear cup [TS]

00:38:49   making your ear all sweaty because [TS]

00:38:51   there's nothing actually resting on your [TS]

00:38:52   ear it's just it's a little tiny thing [TS]

00:38:54   that touches right in front area and [TS]

00:38:55   they're also ip55 certified for water [TS]

00:38:57   resistance in case you get really sweaty [TS]

00:38:59   or it starts raining and the biggest [TS]

00:39:01   difference is after shocks and this to [TS]

00:39:02   me is what defines them this is what [TS]

00:39:04   defines whether they're right for you [TS]

00:39:05   and this will either sound great or [TS]

00:39:07   awful to you is that nothing is blocking [TS]

00:39:09   your ears at all so you hear all the [TS]

00:39:12   sound from the world around you in [TS]

00:39:13   addition to what you're listening to so [TS]

00:39:15   this is actually not so great in like a [TS]

00:39:17   very loud place like a subway station [TS]

00:39:18   but it's awesome if you're doing [TS]

00:39:20   something like taking a walk outside or [TS]

00:39:22   walking through a city where you need to [TS]

00:39:24   be able to hear what's around you for [TS]

00:39:26   practicality or safety reasons they're [TS]

00:39:28   also great while jogging or while [TS]

00:39:29   cycling because you really don't want to [TS]

00:39:31   be listening to anything that's gonna [TS]

00:39:32   block out sound when you're doing [TS]

00:39:34   something where the environment around [TS]

00:39:35   you matters also just around the house [TS]

00:39:37   or around the office you can take you [TS]

00:39:39   you can do things like listen to a [TS]

00:39:40   podcast or take a phone call while also [TS]

00:39:43   hearing if say your kid upstairs wakes [TS]

00:39:46   up from their nap or there's a knock on [TS]

00:39:47   the door and it's the UPS person or [TS]

00:39:49   something so they're great for all sorts [TS]

00:39:50   of situations where you want to hear the [TS]

00:39:52   world around you [TS]

00:39:52   in addition to what you're listening to [TS]

00:39:54   the flagship model in the after Sox [TS]

00:39:56   lineup is the trek titanium and the new [TS]

00:39:59   Trek's air these are both great options [TS]

00:40:01   I've had both now I've had a few months [TS]

00:40:03   with each one and you really can't go [TS]

00:40:05   wrong with either wanting to be honest [TS]

00:40:06   the Trek's titanium is a little more [TS]

00:40:08   pocketable the treks air is a little bit [TS]

00:40:11   lighter and a little more comfortable so [TS]

00:40:13   it's really up to you what your [TS]

00:40:14   priorities are they're both fantastic [TS]

00:40:15   you can't go wrong both of them have [TS]

00:40:17   great battery life they have a two year [TS]

00:40:19   warranty and honestly either one you're [TS]

00:40:23   pretty you're pretty well off so check [TS]

00:40:24   it out today at ATP aftershock to calm [TS]

00:40:27   once again ATP aftershocks calm and you [TS]

00:40:30   can also use code ATP if you want to a [TS]

00:40:32   check out thank you very much - [TS]

00:40:34   aftershocks for sponsoring our show I [TS]

00:40:36   [Music] [TS]

00:40:38   wish to move on from these turf wars [TS]

00:40:41   that I'm starting I and why doesn't [TS]

00:40:42   somebody tell me about this link about [TS]

00:40:44   Johnny I've and him hearing our Macbook [TS]

00:40:47   criticism yeah this there's many been [TS]

00:40:50   many Johnny I've article recently most [TS]

00:40:51   of them live just since the paper didn't [TS]

00:40:52   haven't read but this one had a quote [TS]

00:40:54   that I wanted to pull it was some [TS]

00:40:55   someone asking Johnny I have about you [TS]

00:40:57   know current Apple stuff and he was [TS]

00:41:00   actually giving answers and so here is a [TS]

00:41:02   quote from this article which we will [TS]

00:41:04   link is Johnny I've saying absolutely [TS]

00:41:08   all of your feelings and feedback around [TS]

00:41:10   the MacBook you use we couldn't want to [TS]

00:41:12   listen more and we hear boy do we hear [TS]

00:41:15   so this is it's not much of a statement [TS]

00:41:17   but it's merely merely confirmation that [TS]

00:41:19   if you think Johnny I've created the [TS]

00:41:22   current line of MacBook and MacBook Pros [TS]

00:41:24   and thinks they're perfect and has no [TS]

00:41:26   idea that people have complaints about [TS]

00:41:28   them that is not the case he pretty [TS]

00:41:31   emphatically stated basically yes I have [TS]

00:41:34   heard complaints about this computer and [TS]

00:41:36   two things one we want to hear your [TS]

00:41:39   feedback about it it's not like we're [TS]

00:41:40   saying we made a perfect thing and screw [TS]

00:41:41   you if you don't like it and two they're [TS]

00:41:44   definitely hearing it so I think that [TS]

00:41:47   was refreshing because there's so little [TS]

00:41:48   communication inside Apple that you [TS]

00:41:50   could have a bunch of podcasts were a [TS]

00:41:52   bunch of people ramble on about how it [TS]

00:41:55   seems like apples not listening to us or [TS]

00:41:57   might live in a bubble and don't hear [TS]

00:41:58   the things that we're saying and that is [TS]

00:42:00   not the case maybe the the Mac Pro [TS]

00:42:03   roundtable this past spring was one of [TS]

00:42:06   the most straightforward honest and [TS]

00:42:08   almost apologetic statements to the [TS]

00:42:11   public [TS]

00:42:12   Apple has ever really given you know [TS]

00:42:14   that was like the only time they've ever [TS]

00:42:16   kind of done mea culpa I'm like yeah [TS]

00:42:18   this this product week we kind of messed [TS]

00:42:20   up and and we're gonna fix it I don't [TS]

00:42:22   think we're gonna get one of those for [TS]

00:42:24   the problems of the current generation [TS]

00:42:27   of MacBook Pro but this is about as [TS]

00:42:29   close as you can get I think this this [TS]

00:42:32   statement to me says like you know this [TS]

00:42:34   was this was not some like off-the-cuff [TS]

00:42:36   accidental thing that he let slip out [TS]

00:42:38   like I'm sure he I'm sure he thought [TS]

00:42:40   about that before he said it and knew [TS]

00:42:42   what he was saying and I think this is [TS]

00:42:44   as close as they're going to come to [TS]

00:42:46   there's been a lot of negative feedback [TS]

00:42:48   about this generation of laptops and we [TS]

00:42:50   hear you yeah and we don't know what [TS]

00:42:52   they're gonna do about it [TS]

00:42:53   you know it could be that what they do [TS]

00:42:55   is still doesn't satisfy satisfy some [TS]

00:42:57   people don't sighs fellas but but you [TS]

00:42:59   but you can't say at this point that [TS]

00:43:00   they have their heads in the sand which [TS]

00:43:02   is the thing that you could have said [TS]

00:43:03   was they're so they're so bad about [TS]

00:43:04   giving any sort of transparency to their [TS]

00:43:06   thinking because all you hear is like [TS]

00:43:08   the earnings call and about how many of [TS]

00:43:09   these things they're selling and how [TS]

00:43:11   their profits that are great and it's [TS]

00:43:12   like you have this fear that like maybe [TS]

00:43:13   they think everything is awesome because [TS]

00:43:14   they're selling more like and their [TS]

00:43:16   customer satisfaction they ever sold [TS]

00:43:23   before like all everything looks good [TS]

00:43:25   you know and you you worry that that [TS]

00:43:27   your concerns are irrelevant because who [TS]

00:43:30   cares what you think about the keyboard [TS]

00:43:31   if tons of people are buying them then [TS]

00:43:33   you're wrong and Apple should do what [TS]

00:43:35   sells more Mac's and makes more [TS]

00:43:37   customers happy right and that is the [TS]

00:43:38   fear of being marginalized but to hear [TS]

00:43:41   this direct feedback that you know and [TS]

00:43:43   boy do we hear like that not only do we [TS]

00:43:46   oh yeah we hear still be a lot of [TS]

00:43:47   problems but like that the Johnny I'm in [TS]

00:43:49   particular is probably getting an earful [TS]

00:43:51   about like you know slimline keyboards [TS]

00:43:53   that he insisted on or whatever who [TS]

00:43:54   knows but the particular details are but [TS]

00:43:56   I you know I like I like the idea of [TS]

00:43:58   communicating to the public something [TS]

00:44:01   that says we acknowledge you and and [TS]

00:44:05   merely acknowledging doesn't mean we [TS]

00:44:08   agree with you it doesn't mean you we're [TS]

00:44:12   going to do what you want but it does [TS]

00:44:15   say we're not sticking our head in the [TS]

00:44:17   sand and pretending you don't exist and [TS]

00:44:19   also that [TS]

00:44:19   not disregarding you like they could [TS]

00:44:21   have said like what kind of already said [TS]

00:44:23   about Apple Park where's another quote [TS]

00:44:25   that didn't pull from here which is like [TS]

00:44:26   I don't understand when people complain [TS]

00:44:27   about Apple park is essentially like we [TS]

00:44:29   didn't build it for you you don't work [TS]

00:44:31   for Apple it's for people who work at [TS]

00:44:32   Apple and we know how people who work at [TS]

00:44:34   Apple work and you don't so stop [TS]

00:44:37   complaining about our building like [TS]

00:44:38   we're not building a house for you [TS]

00:44:40   that's a different kind of feedback [TS]

00:44:41   which is like we hear you but we think [TS]

00:44:44   you are not what is it you don't have [TS]

00:44:46   standing we hear you but we don't care [TS]

00:44:48   yeah you don't have standing you're not [TS]

00:44:50   a party in this conversation like do you [TS]

00:44:52   work at Apple then maybe we'll listen to [TS]

00:44:54   you about how much you like the place [TS]

00:44:55   where you have to work if you work at [TS]

00:44:56   Apple or not you don't have to visit my [TS]

00:44:58   old campus do but anyway but if you [TS]

00:45:01   don't work at Apple you can have your [TS]

00:45:02   opinions but we're not gonna listen to [TS]

00:45:05   it because we're building you know the [TS]

00:45:07   place where Apple employees right now [TS]

00:45:08   obviously I feel like if someone was [TS]

00:45:11   more of an apple never thinking to come [TS]

00:45:12   back with giant said yeah but Apple [TS]

00:45:14   employees also have complaints about [TS]

00:45:16   this spaceship and so you could say [TS]

00:45:18   these are in my complaints I'm really [TS]

00:45:19   conveying to you the things that I have [TS]

00:45:21   heard Apple employees tell me you know [TS]

00:45:23   anonymously or otherwise about how they [TS]

00:45:24   want to have private offices and blah [TS]

00:45:26   blah is everything but clearly Johnny [TS]

00:45:28   was not ready to to accept that feedback [TS]

00:45:32   about Apple Park but he seems ready to [TS]

00:45:35   accept the feedback about the laptops [TS]

00:45:38   the question is what happens next or [TS]

00:45:41   what has already happened because as we [TS]

00:45:42   talked about before the timelines on [TS]

00:45:43   hardware designs are long and for all we [TS]

00:45:46   know eight months ago they already made [TS]

00:45:48   a radical right turn about their [TS]

00:45:50   keyboard plans for the next line of [TS]

00:45:51   laptops and we'll find out when they're [TS]

00:45:53   released here's hoping all right [TS]

00:45:57   ask ATP and we begin with Josh Keegan [TS]

00:45:59   who writes I grew up a huge book reader [TS]

00:46:01   my wife did two combined we have three [TS]

00:46:03   or four bookcases full of paperbacks on [TS]

00:46:04   hard covers I recently decided that we [TS]

00:46:06   should get rid of them they seem archaic [TS]

00:46:08   to me now in the age of e-books my wife [TS]

00:46:09   disagrees and so they remain do you guys [TS]

00:46:11   have a lot of books in the house just [TS]

00:46:13   keeping paper books seem old-fashioned [TS]

00:46:14   to you let me start by saying having us [TS]

00:46:17   adjudicate your marital deliberations is [TS]

00:46:20   probably not a wise choice but that [TS]

00:46:22   being said I we Aaron and I are both [TS]

00:46:26   pretty big readers Aaron more so than me [TS]

00:46:29   I feel like I just don't have time for [TS]

00:46:31   it probably because I'm spending too [TS]

00:46:32   much time on Twitter [TS]

00:46:33   because I'm an idiot but nevertheless I [TS]

00:46:35   do enjoy reading novels I do quite like [TS]

00:46:38   reading a physical book if I if I can I [TS]

00:46:42   prefer physical book over anything else [TS]

00:46:44   unless I'm travelling but anyways I [TS]

00:46:46   don't see a problem with books if you [TS]

00:46:49   don't need the space for anything else I [TS]

00:46:50   don't know why you would get rid of them [TS]

00:46:51   but I am NOT one that is deeply bothered [TS]

00:46:54   by by I'm gonna say clutter although it [TS]

00:46:57   doesn't sound like it's clutter stuff [TS]

00:46:59   contained in a books yes stuff thank you [TS]

00:47:01   so I say my vote is keep them unless you [TS]

00:47:04   have a reason for that space but that's [TS]

00:47:05   just me Marco what do you think we have [TS]

00:47:08   some books there they're in a bookshelf [TS]

00:47:10   in the living room it's a nice big [TS]

00:47:11   built-in thing and it would look weird [TS]

00:47:13   if it was empty and so we keep a whole [TS]

00:47:15   lot of books there [TS]

00:47:16   we don't actually really add or remove [TS]

00:47:19   or use the books there very often and so [TS]

00:47:23   most of the books just sit there and [TS]

00:47:25   look pretty [TS]

00:47:25   but that is a useful function they look [TS]

00:47:27   pretty on these giant shelves that are [TS]

00:47:29   built into our house and if they were [TS]

00:47:31   gone it would be weird so you know like [TS]

00:47:33   what you just had case like I don't [TS]

00:47:34   really I don't see any problem with [TS]

00:47:36   having them there they're not causing [TS]

00:47:37   any harm they don't have any needs [TS]

00:47:39   really and there's nothing else that we [TS]

00:47:41   would put on those shelves [TS]

00:47:43   at the moment so if that ever changes if [TS]

00:47:46   we really need the space or if for some [TS]

00:47:48   reason we want to tear those shelves out [TS]

00:47:49   of out of the walls then sure I will [TS]

00:47:52   push to get rid of to get rid of them [TS]

00:47:54   then but if they're not causing problems [TS]

00:47:56   for you I don't I don't see why you'd [TS]

00:47:59   get rid of them I like books I've [TS]

00:48:02   collected books since I was very young [TS]

00:48:04   not just for the words on the pages but [TS]

00:48:06   to the point where I would buy multiple [TS]

00:48:08   copies of a book I like because I like [TS]

00:48:10   the books as objects you know special [TS]

00:48:12   editions of books leather-bound versions [TS]

00:48:15   of books books with fancy illustrations [TS]

00:48:16   or shiny covers a really thick paper [TS]

00:48:18   stock I like books as objects yeah in [TS]

00:48:21   addition to liking the words in them [TS]

00:48:24   when I went to work for what was at the [TS]

00:48:26   time the largest ebook seller in the [TS]

00:48:28   world back in back in the early days [TS]

00:48:30   before Amazon even got into the game I [TS]

00:48:32   got converted to ebooks pretty much [TS]

00:48:34   wholesale so I prefer to actually read [TS]

00:48:38   books in electronic form but I still [TS]

00:48:40   have a huge soft spot for the physical [TS]

00:48:43   books I would do the things where I [TS]

00:48:45   would buy the book and read it [TS]

00:48:47   a book for him but then by the first [TS]

00:48:48   edition hardcover just to put in the [TS]

00:48:50   Shelf that I literally never opened so [TS]

00:48:54   I'm obviously very Pro book my problem [TS]

00:48:58   is if you if you were like this and you [TS]

00:49:00   really like books as physical objects [TS]

00:49:01   and you're not fantastically wealthy [TS]

00:49:04   eventually you will run out of room to [TS]

00:49:06   put books our house is essentially [TS]

00:49:08   overflowing with books most bookshelves [TS]

00:49:10   double and triple stacked with books in [TS]

00:49:12   the Attic and so now I've mostly put a [TS]

00:49:14   moratorium on buying more paper books [TS]

00:49:16   because I I can't I don't want to [TS]

00:49:18   displace any books that I have so right [TS]

00:49:20   now I mostly only by very large [TS]

00:49:23   beautiful coffee table books filled with [TS]

00:49:25   illustrations or like those really [TS]

00:49:28   gigantic awesome making of Star Wars [TS]

00:49:30   books that had that I have lots of words [TS]

00:49:33   and illustrations in them that would be [TS]

00:49:35   difficult to do in electronic form [TS]

00:49:37   unless someone gives me my 27 inch iPad [TS]

00:49:39   pro so I am all for physical books but [TS]

00:49:43   like so many physical objects if you [TS]

00:49:45   continue down that path you will [TS]

00:49:48   probably eventually run out of room for [TS]

00:49:49   books Craig writes [TS]

00:49:51   why does Apple refused to make desktop [TS]

00:49:53   back like keyboards gaming keyboards go [TS]

00:49:55   crazy with any on lights do you think [TS]

00:49:56   Apple would ever make a desktop keyboard [TS]

00:49:58   with just enough light to see your keys [TS]

00:49:59   I have a hard time answering this [TS]

00:50:03   question because I can touch type and I [TS]

00:50:04   have been able to for a very long time [TS]

00:50:07   so this having lights on my keyboard [TS]

00:50:10   does not really help me I presume that [TS]

00:50:13   they don't really have any interest in [TS]

00:50:15   this because it would you know cause the [TS]

00:50:17   the battery on your magic keyboard to [TS]

00:50:18   drain even faster and yes I know it's [TS]

00:50:20   easily rechargeable you don't have to [TS]

00:50:22   harpoon a turtle to do it but [TS]

00:50:24   nevertheless you know it's nice not [TS]

00:50:25   having to plug my keyboard in but once [TS]

00:50:27   every month or two and so I don't think [TS]

00:50:30   they will personally but I don't know [TS]

00:50:33   that's my two cents mark we went to you [TS]

00:50:35   first last time so John what do you [TS]

00:50:36   think even if you touch type the reason [TS]

00:50:39   they have the light of keyboards and [TS]

00:50:40   laptop is they think people will be [TS]

00:50:42   using them in dark places and yeah you [TS]

00:50:44   can touch type but can you touch type [TS]

00:50:45   the media keys can you touch type the [TS]

00:50:47   function keys most people can't like [TS]

00:50:49   it's just too far of a reach and they're [TS]

00:50:50   just too weird and you casually have to [TS]

00:50:51   glance and see you know where is you [TS]

00:50:54   know f7 or where is the pause key or you [TS]

00:50:58   know or whatever I mean help with these [TS]

00:50:59   new keyboards you can't even touch that [TS]

00:51:00   the air [TS]

00:51:01   keys yeah well you can eventually if you [TS]

00:51:04   feel for the little divider and the two [TS]

00:51:05   halves the key is for top and bottom [TS]

00:51:07   before you go to the left right but [TS]

00:51:08   anyway it's annoying so I think there is [TS]

00:51:11   a place for backlighting on keyboards [TS]

00:51:12   even for touch typists but for desktop [TS]

00:51:15   keyboards if you're using a desktop [TS]

00:51:17   keyboard in a dark place that's kind of [TS]

00:51:19   your choice probably like it's not like [TS]

00:51:21   a laptop where you may find yourself on [TS]

00:51:23   a plane where everybody's sleeping or [TS]

00:51:24   you know in an environment where the [TS]

00:51:26   lighting is not ideal and like I said [TS]

00:51:28   you do have the charging difficulty so I [TS]

00:51:30   don't think Apple's opposed to back of [TS]

00:51:32   the keyboards I wouldn't expect any neon [TS]

00:51:33   ones I feel like it's a thing I can see [TS]

00:51:37   Apple shipping if they could if they [TS]

00:51:39   could sort out the battery issues they [TS]

00:51:42   would probably ship it you know just [TS]

00:51:44   because someone will get it in an idea [TS]

00:51:46   that it's at its usual thing to have and [TS]

00:51:48   they can charge a little bit more Ani [TS]

00:51:49   for the backup version they would do it [TS]

00:51:50   but honestly unless someone inside Apple [TS]

00:51:53   is really passionate about this I just [TS]

00:51:56   see them leaving it as a third party [TS]

00:51:57   opportunity as they say because they [TS]

00:51:59   haven't come out with one by now they [TS]

00:52:00   obviously don't think it's a big need [TS]

00:52:02   you know using PC gaming keyboards that [TS]

00:52:05   are full of LEDs as an example is not a [TS]

00:52:08   good example of why Apple should do this [TS]

00:52:10   because things are hideous and I think [TS]

00:52:13   if you if Apple knows those exist which [TS]

00:52:15   I kind of hope that no one there knows [TS]

00:52:16   but if they do know they would use that [TS]

00:52:18   as an argument and why not to make these [TS]

00:52:20   things but yeah also as you mentioned it [TS]

00:52:23   would have to be charged you definitely [TS]

00:52:24   more frequently also I think that the [TS]

00:52:27   you know the need for word is less on [TS]

00:52:29   desktops because desktop screens are so [TS]

00:52:32   much bigger and you keep them so much [TS]

00:52:34   brighter usually because there's no [TS]

00:52:35   battery concern but there's a pretty [TS]

00:52:37   good chance there's the light from the [TS]

00:52:38   screen lights up the keys enough to show [TS]

00:52:41   you where the keys are even in a pitch [TS]

00:52:42   dark room so I think the need for it is [TS]

00:52:44   significantly lower it does however just [TS]

00:52:47   look cool like when it's done right like [TS]

00:52:48   the way apples are done with subtle [TS]

00:52:49   white lighting and supposed to blue LEDs [TS]

00:52:52   when done tastefully like that it can [TS]

00:52:55   look really cool it just looks like a [TS]

00:52:56   nice luxury product like on the laptops [TS]

00:52:58   this isn't to say that they should never [TS]

00:53:00   do it but I don't think they will just [TS]

00:53:02   because again charging needs the less [TS]

00:53:04   actual like physical need for it because [TS]

00:53:07   you can see your keyboard usually more [TS]

00:53:08   like in desktops and also that the [TS]

00:53:12   desktop keyboards are just a pretty low [TS]

00:53:13   priority for Apple [TS]

00:53:14   they don't really redesign them that [TS]

00:53:16   often or put that much effort into them [TS]

00:53:17   so I even you know from that point of [TS]

00:53:20   view I think it would be very hard to [TS]

00:53:22   argue that Apple should you know put in [TS]

00:53:25   the effort to make that happen on a [TS]

00:53:28   hardware line that they update what [TS]

00:53:30   every ten years all right and finally [TS]

00:53:33   pretend stats have rights how does [TS]

00:53:36   dynamic ad targeting and podcasts work [TS]

00:53:38   ad companies say they can target [TS]

00:53:39   listeners but Marco has said that you [TS]

00:53:41   can only really know how many downloads [TS]

00:53:43   the mp3 podcast file gets and that's [TS]

00:53:45   about it when it comes to data save for [TS]

00:53:47   proprietary apps and then he added this [TS]

00:53:50   one is for Casey I'm not sure because I [TS]

00:53:53   feel like I am deeply in ill-equipped [TS]

00:53:55   answer this question but this sounds [TS]

00:53:58   like it's two different things to me all [TS]

00:54:01   rolled into one or maybe I just would [TS]

00:54:03   like someone Marco I guess to clarify so [TS]

00:54:06   when I when I hear dynamic in podcasts [TS]

00:54:09   what I think is there is there are [TS]

00:54:12   podcasts [TS]

00:54:14   I don't know servers for lack of a [TS]

00:54:15   better description or networks where [TS]

00:54:17   they know that an ad starts at ten [TS]

00:54:20   minutes and it is two minutes long and [TS]

00:54:23   they can run an ad in that spot for a [TS]

00:54:27   week or two and then change that ad to [TS]

00:54:30   be something else and they'll Rhian code [TS]

00:54:31   or I'm assuming re-encode the mp3 and [TS]

00:54:34   for two weeks it'll be the next ad and [TS]

00:54:36   then so on and so forth but but what [TS]

00:54:38   proton is talking about is different [TS]

00:54:40   than that if I'm not mistaken which is [TS]

00:54:42   Oh Casey is a white male that is in its [TS]

00:54:46   mid 30s [TS]

00:54:47   let's give him these ads as opposed to [TS]

00:54:50   different ones so Marco can you kind of [TS]

00:54:52   tell me what this is all about yeah the [TS]

00:54:54   the latter theory you have is the more [TS]

00:54:56   correct one so the reason the reason [TS]

00:55:00   this came up and the reason I put it in [TS]

00:55:01   here as a question I wanted to answer is [TS]

00:55:02   that a lot of people are starting to [TS]

00:55:05   hear what are pretty clearly like [TS]

00:55:08   dynamically on demand inserted ads in [TS]

00:55:11   usually popular podcasts this past year [TS]

00:55:15   there have been a lot of major podcasts [TS]

00:55:18   like from major producers like some of [TS]

00:55:20   the public radio producers and some of [TS]

00:55:22   the big networks major producers are now [TS]

00:55:24   frequently using dynamic ad insertion [TS]

00:55:27   and what this is is [TS]

00:55:28   new ads can be inserted on every [TS]

00:55:32   download on every request that the file [TS]

00:55:34   gets every you know download request [TS]

00:55:37   from a client or a web browser can have [TS]

00:55:39   different ads in it they don't do every [TS]

00:55:41   encoding they do it by splicing because [TS]

00:55:43   the mp3 file format is very very easy to [TS]

00:55:45   splice which might lead into a future [TS]

00:55:47   topic if we ever get to it the so [TS]

00:55:50   basically what they do is your download [TS]

00:55:53   request from your podcast player or your [TS]

00:55:55   web browser hits they're basically add [TS]

00:55:57   splicing server and based on your IP [TS]

00:56:01   address and anything you can glean from [TS]

00:56:03   your headers which fortunately for a [TS]

00:56:06   podcast app is pretty minimal but it can [TS]

00:56:07   at least tell usually which podcast app [TS]

00:56:10   you're using what kind of device and [TS]

00:56:12   what OS version it has and you know from [TS]

00:56:17   your IP address it can derive your [TS]

00:56:18   approximate location now if it's a big [TS]

00:56:23   ad network and if it's integrated with [TS]

00:56:24   web ads then they can also derive other [TS]

00:56:27   things that things that a web browser [TS]

00:56:29   can pick up and they can correlate that [TS]

00:56:32   data based on your IP address and you [TS]

00:56:35   know and maybe you know maybe some idea [TS]

00:56:37   of what your phone model is they can [TS]

00:56:39   then correlate that with other data they [TS]

00:56:40   have from other sources like maybe [TS]

00:56:42   Facebook or Twitter or other big ad [TS]

00:56:44   networks and they can figure out more [TS]

00:56:46   about you but all the podcast app is [TS]

00:56:48   providing is whatever whatever the e [TS]

00:56:51   they would get if you fetched say an [TS]

00:56:53   image off their servers which is your IP [TS]

00:56:55   address and a user agent header that's [TS]

00:56:58   it but that is enough that you that a [TS]

00:57:02   lot of people report hearing like an ad [TS]

00:57:05   for a local car dealership in the middle [TS]

00:57:07   of a podcast from a national provider [TS]

00:57:08   and that creeps people out and they [TS]

00:57:11   wonder what's going on a lot of times [TS]

00:57:12   they blame overcast or they ask me like [TS]

00:57:14   hey what's this how did this work but [TS]

00:57:16   yeah this is just these big publishers [TS]

00:57:18   are now very very frequently using these [TS]

00:57:20   dynamic ad insertion platforms and the [TS]

00:57:22   way it works is pretty simple as is it [TS]

00:57:24   like you know they derive whatever they [TS]

00:57:26   can from your IP address and the user [TS]

00:57:27   agent header and then they they throw in [TS]

00:57:31   an ad and mp3 is a very forgiving and [TS]

00:57:34   simple format it's very very easy to [TS]

00:57:35   take chunks out of and splice in so in [TS]

00:57:38   their CMS is when they produce the shows [TS]

00:57:40   they just say you [TS]

00:57:42   you can put an ad at you know these two [TS]

00:57:43   timestamps in the show the main problem [TS]

00:57:47   I have with it as as a listener first of [TS]

00:57:49   all is it's kind of creepy in the ads [TS]

00:57:50   are pretty oftentimes pretty low value [TS]

00:57:52   ads because there are things like car [TS]

00:57:54   dealerships and it just turns into [TS]

00:57:55   basically what radio ads were which is [TS]

00:57:57   not something any of us should ever [TS]

00:57:58   ascribe or aspire to because they're [TS]

00:58:00   really you know bargain-basement low [TS]

00:58:02   price low value ads so hopefully that's [TS]

00:58:05   not the world we're heading towards here [TS]

00:58:07   but also it causes other problems so for [TS]

00:58:10   instance the mp3 file format specifies [TS]

00:58:14   length in about three different ways and [TS]

00:58:16   a lot of times these these splicing ad [TS]

00:58:20   platforms don't update them all [TS]

00:58:21   correctly so it causes weird problems in [TS]

00:58:25   players like mine where sometimes [TS]

00:58:27   certain files will say and two minutes [TS]

00:58:31   early because that's the amount of AD [TS]

00:58:33   they injected and they forgot to update [TS]

00:58:34   the duration or their platform didn't do [TS]

00:58:35   it right or something like that or [TS]

00:58:36   seeking will be slightly broken or [TS]

00:58:38   something like that [TS]

00:58:39   other the other major problem is even if [TS]

00:58:41   you get past the technical hurdles there [TS]

00:58:43   because the ads they insert are not [TS]

00:58:45   consistent lengths it starts to erode [TS]

00:58:49   the value of timestamp links so you [TS]

00:58:51   can't for instance say oh you got to [TS]

00:58:53   hear you know this you know NPR podcast [TS]

00:58:56   at at 17 minutes because you're the 17 [TS]

00:59:00   minutes when you download the file might [TS]

00:59:02   be a different part of the file then [TS]

00:59:03   then what the person who is telling you [TS]

00:59:06   that had and their copy of the file [TS]

00:59:07   because if you had ten minutes of ads in [TS]

00:59:09   yours and they had seven minutes of ads [TS]

00:59:11   in theirs you're gonna be three minutes [TS]

00:59:12   off so it arose the value of sharing [TS]

00:59:15   timestamps and and of referring to [TS]

00:59:18   timestamps which i think is very [TS]

00:59:20   damaging to the spread of podcasts but [TS]

00:59:23   ultimately I don't have any real say in [TS]

00:59:26   this they're gonna do what they're gonna [TS]

00:59:27   do they are doing it and I've tried to [TS]

00:59:29   argue with some of these producers they [TS]

00:59:30   shouldn't be doing this but they are [TS]

00:59:31   anyway so oh well this is where we live [TS]

00:59:33   in now and that's how it works it's it's [TS]

00:59:37   pretty basic and I wish it didn't work [TS]

00:59:39   that way but it does the good thing is [TS]

00:59:42   that it can't ever get as bad as web [TS]

00:59:44   tracking you know when you fetch a web [TS]

00:59:47   page your browser executes code on that [TS]

00:59:49   page is behalf that has any JavaScript [TS]

00:59:51   embedded which these days it always does [TS]

00:59:53   so the amount of data that a web [TS]

00:59:55   Paige can collect about you is way [TS]

00:59:58   higher than the amount of [TS]

00:59:58   higher than the amount of [TS]

01:00:00   data that a podcast publisher can [TS]

01:00:01   collect about you because when your [TS]

01:00:03   podcast downloads the file it's just [TS]

01:00:05   playing a media file it is not executing [TS]

01:00:08   arbitrary code supplied by the publisher [TS]

01:00:10   so they can't add any more tracking or [TS]

01:00:14   collect any more data or observe your [TS]

01:00:15   behavior any more than a person at this [TS]

01:00:18   IP address and using this app downloaded [TS]

01:00:21   this file that's it that's all the [TS]

01:00:23   information they have again they can [TS]

01:00:25   correlate that if they know more about [TS]

01:00:27   that IP address from other sources but [TS]

01:00:30   as far as the podcast player and that's [TS]

01:00:32   all it's giving them but the scary thing [TS]

01:00:35   though is that anything that people [TS]

01:00:35   don't think about is that they do have a [TS]

01:00:38   source for correlation they know so much [TS]

01:00:39   about your IP address because chances [TS]

01:00:42   are very good in the recent past you [TS]

01:00:44   have hit a webpage somewhere that has [TS]

01:00:46   some Facebook embedded widget they got [TS]

01:00:48   your Facebook cookies and now knows who [TS]

01:00:49   you are on Facebook and now is know your [TS]

01:00:50   entire social graph and your first and [TS]

01:00:52   last name and the last thing you bought [TS]

01:00:53   from Amazon and like those ad networks [TS]

01:00:55   that's all they're doing is correlating [TS]

01:00:57   a user activity across multiple [TS]

01:00:59   platforms and just synthesizing it into [TS]

01:01:01   this you know up-to-date knowledge about [TS]

01:01:03   a particular person or IP address or [TS]

01:01:05   combination of IP address and user agent [TS]

01:01:07   and whatever else they can glean from [TS]

01:01:09   your device like that's that's all these [TS]

01:01:11   networks do and so even though the [TS]

01:01:12   podcast player is not revealing is [TS]

01:01:14   really the minimum it possibly can about [TS]

01:01:16   you once they go off to the side and [TS]

01:01:19   look up all the other stuff that's [TS]

01:01:21   that's how they know like that you're [TS]

01:01:22   shopping for toilets and it's now it's [TS]

01:01:24   time to show you a toilet know where you [TS]

01:01:25   live they they know who your friends are [TS]

01:01:28   they know you've been shopping for [TS]

01:01:29   toilets and they're gonna insert the [TS]

01:01:30   toilet ad and that seems terrifying but [TS]

01:01:32   it's because of all the rest of the [TS]

01:01:34   internet particularly the web not [TS]

01:01:36   because of the podcast player and that's [TS]

01:01:37   why these things are creepy the idea [TS]

01:01:39   that they the aggragate and and [TS]

01:01:41   centralize this knowledge so that [TS]

01:01:42   there's almost nothing you can do on the [TS]

01:01:45   internet where they can't figure out who [TS]

01:01:46   you are through those kinds of [TS]

01:01:49   correlations so you know I don't know [TS]

01:01:52   what the solution is but the the [TS]

01:01:56   relative purity of podcast doesn't [TS]

01:01:58   actually save us from anything and even [TS]

01:01:59   you know for stuff like show notes if [TS]

01:02:01   you can put HTML and show notes it's [TS]

01:02:03   only a matter of time before one or more [TS]

01:02:06   podcast applications pre-render the show [TS]

01:02:09   notes and are not as scrupulous as [TS]

01:02:10   overcast about allowing what appears and [TS]

01:02:12   then HTML and [TS]

01:02:13   sort of take the easy way out and just [TS]

01:02:14   throw some content from a feed into a [TS]

01:02:16   web view and that executes and it has a [TS]

01:02:18   little tracking you know blip and embeds [TS]

01:02:21   a Facebook widget and runs JavaScript [TS]

01:02:23   and who knows what else like so the the [TS]

01:02:25   web has a way of seeping into many [TS]

01:02:27   different corners of applications and if [TS]

01:02:30   you're if you're not constantly fighting [TS]

01:02:31   against that tide is really easy for [TS]

01:02:33   creepy stuff to sneak into your [TS]

01:02:35   application we are sponsored this week [TS]

01:02:38   by Linode my favorite web host go to [TS]

01:02:41   lynda.com slash ATP to learn more and [TS]

01:02:43   use code accidental podcast 10 to get a [TS]

01:02:46   $10 credit Linode is the best web host I [TS]

01:02:50   have ever used I have trust me a lot of [TS]

01:02:53   experience with hosted web servers going [TS]

01:02:55   all the way back to the year 2000 and [TS]

01:02:57   I've I've hosted literally hundreds of [TS]

01:03:00   servers and VPS since then at probably [TS]

01:03:04   10 or 15 different web posts and Linode [TS]

01:03:06   just kicks their butts it's so much [TS]

01:03:08   better on so many levels that's why I [TS]

01:03:11   move everything there now it is just so [TS]

01:03:13   much more pleasant to use their pricing [TS]

01:03:15   is incredibly compelling plans start at [TS]

01:03:18   just $10 a month littered now offers two [TS]

01:03:21   gigs of RAM at that $10 a month level [TS]

01:03:23   this is pretty much unheard of in the [TS]

01:03:25   web hosting industry I mean the [TS]

01:03:26   resources you get for $10 a month Linode [TS]

01:03:28   I used to pay hundreds of dollars a [TS]

01:03:30   month for not that long ago and they [TS]

01:03:32   have all sorts of great features they [TS]

01:03:34   have managed backups they have managed [TS]

01:03:35   load balancers which I use they're [TS]

01:03:37   wonderful they have managed stats if you [TS]

01:03:40   want that they have both managed and [TS]

01:03:42   unmanaged services for your actual [TS]

01:03:43   Linode themselves so if you need help [TS]

01:03:45   that's available to you but it's mostly [TS]

01:03:47   made for unmanaged people who want to [TS]

01:03:48   run it yourself and they have all sorts [TS]

01:03:50   of great documentation and tutorials if [TS]

01:03:53   you just to learn how to run a Linux [TS]

01:03:55   server if you have any questions [TS]

01:03:56   in fact chances are if you've ever [TS]

01:03:58   googled for some kind of answer on how [TS]

01:04:00   to run a Linux server you've probably [TS]

01:04:01   come across their help documentation [TS]

01:04:02   even if you weren't using Linode because [TS]

01:04:04   that's how good it is that it ranks [TS]

01:04:05   highly in the search engine because [TS]

01:04:06   people keep using it Linode stuff is so [TS]

01:04:09   great it's so easy to use $10 a month [TS]

01:04:11   gets you two gigs of ram in a virtual [TS]

01:04:13   server you have full root access you can [TS]

01:04:14   install whatever you want it's wonderful [TS]

01:04:16   so check out Linode today I highly [TS]

01:04:19   recommend it it is the only web host you [TS]

01:04:21   should be looking at if what you're [TS]

01:04:22   looking for is straight up web hosting [TS]

01:04:24   go to lynda.com slash ATP and use [TS]

01:04:27   accidental podcast 10 to get a $10 [TS]

01:04:30   credit thank you so much to Linode for [TS]

01:04:33   hosting all of my stuff and supporting [TS]

01:04:35   this show Thursday night I'm laying in [TS]

01:04:42   bed and I'm looking at you know Twitter [TS]

01:04:43   or what have you and I'm starting to see [TS]

01:04:47   that that people in the future are very [TS]

01:04:51   perturbed and they're perturbed because [TS]

01:04:54   apparently some of their phones are [TS]

01:04:56   endlessly rebooting and I'm starting to [TS]

01:04:59   see like text messages or slack messages [TS]

01:05:01   from friends who live in the future and [TS]

01:05:03   they're saying oh my god something is [TS]

01:05:07   deeply wrong change your phone's clock [TS]

01:05:10   what change your phone's clock because [TS]

01:05:13   once you hit Friday the air I'm sorry [TS]

01:05:16   once you hit I guess was Friday night it [TS]

01:05:18   doesn't matter boy one of these days [TS]

01:05:20   once you hit overnight at like 12:15 [TS]

01:05:22   suddenly your phone will go bananas I [TS]

01:05:26   think it was Friday night into Saturday [TS]

01:05:28   that's my bad yeah it was into December [TS]

01:05:29   2nd yep so change your phone Casey [TS]

01:05:33   either turn off all notifications which [TS]

01:05:35   there is no big red you know abort [TS]

01:05:38   switch for notifications so you have to [TS]

01:05:40   go into every single app and turn them [TS]

01:05:41   off or change your clocks such that you [TS]

01:05:45   will never roll over the very early [TS]

01:05:48   morning of December 2nd which is what I [TS]

01:05:50   did and that causes a whole new world of [TS]

01:05:52   problems that are not terribly [TS]

01:05:53   interesting but it was it was a pain in [TS]

01:05:55   the butt that was my first question I [TS]

01:05:56   was gonna ask you when I was going I'm [TS]

01:05:58   living backwards in time going through [TS]

01:06:00   your old Twitter pass and seeing that [TS]

01:06:02   you and lots of other people not just [TS]

01:06:04   you went with that option like [TS]

01:06:07   something's wrong we're not quite sure [TS]

01:06:08   what it is at this point in time but one [TS]

01:06:10   of the suggested solutions is to set [TS]

01:06:11   your clock back and a bunch of people [TS]

01:06:13   who I felt like should know better said [TS]

01:06:15   I'll do that I'll set my clock back well [TS]

01:06:18   will will slow down what are my options [TS]

01:06:19   so I have three options to my mind I can [TS]

01:06:23   wait and see and potentially end up with [TS]

01:06:25   a phone that is not bricked but is damn [TS]

01:06:28   near useless [TS]

01:06:29   I can pray that I don't get zapped by [TS]

01:06:32   this bug or I can set my clock back and [TS]

01:06:36   just deal with some inconveniences yep [TS]

01:06:37   but both [TS]

01:06:38   two options are better than setting your [TS]

01:06:39   clock back like in general I would say [TS]

01:06:42   like as a computer user rule of thumb [TS]

01:06:46   this didn't used to be true but has been [TS]

01:06:48   true for the past I don't know decade or [TS]

01:06:50   so since SSL [TS]

01:06:51   yeah probably but but even actually [TS]

01:06:54   maybe even before don't change the date [TS]

01:06:57   on your computer because unbeknownst to [TS]

01:06:58   you tons of things on your computer and [TS]

01:07:01   especially on your phone don't work if [TS]

01:07:04   you're if the date your date is not the [TS]

01:07:08   real date things like iMessage which you [TS]

01:07:11   probably care about a lot like texting [TS]

01:07:12   is a very popular application it was [TS]

01:07:15   very recent all those things there's [TS]

01:07:18   nothing they will instantly break but [TS]

01:07:19   they can break websites the popular [TS]

01:07:22   websites that you use applications that [TS]

01:07:25   like many many things depend on the date [TS]

01:07:27   so like the options you listed like you [TS]

01:07:30   could cross your fingers and hope you [TS]

01:07:32   could wait for a different thing another [TS]

01:07:34   one is you could just shut down your [TS]

01:07:35   phone and wait with your phone turned [TS]

01:07:37   also at the very least you know like [TS]

01:07:39   whatever data is on your phone is safe [TS]

01:07:41   because the thing is off right and then [TS]

01:07:42   just find out what the duskiness out but [TS]

01:07:44   you know for a fact that changing the [TS]

01:07:46   date is gonna mess some things up maybe [TS]

01:07:49   a few things maybe a lot of things and [TS]

01:07:52   the main reason I wouldn't changed in [TS]

01:07:54   this case is in a sort of an unknown [TS]

01:07:55   type scenario where you don't know what [TS]

01:07:57   the deal is like is this a big bug is it [TS]

01:07:58   a little bug what's the fix gonna be is [TS]

01:08:00   Apple gonna have a thing there's so many [TS]

01:08:01   unknowns I wouldn't want to add to the [TS]

01:08:04   noise with date stuffed and this [TS]

01:08:06   happened with a lot of people who would [TS]

01:08:07   set their date back where once the bug [TS]

01:08:10   fix was out they're like oh the they [TS]

01:08:12   fixed the bug but now I can't FaceTime [TS]

01:08:14   with people and it was because they had [TS]

01:08:15   said the date back and now their face ID [TS]

01:08:17   or whatever was yeah and now they're [TS]

01:08:19   suffering from the fallout of their [TS]

01:08:20   attempted fix so it's counterintuitive [TS]

01:08:22   if you haven't dealt with any of things [TS]

01:08:24   but perhaps surprisingly changed in the [TS]

01:08:27   data on your computer or phone can and [TS]

01:08:29   will cause all sorts of weird problems [TS]

01:08:31   that are difficult to attribute or [TS]

01:08:32   diagnose and won't give you nice error [TS]

01:08:34   messages that say oh you change your [TS]

01:08:35   date so I would suggest that if that [TS]

01:08:38   among all the options that you have pick [TS]

01:08:41   that one last pick that one after you [TS]

01:08:44   know prefer the option of simply turning [TS]

01:08:46   off your phone [TS]

01:08:46   so I disagree I'd also add to the list [TS]

01:08:49   of problems that it causes [TS]

01:08:51   will sink bugs and possible data loss [TS]

01:08:53   with apps that sink yes because a lot of [TS]

01:08:55   sink engines are the a lot of sing [TS]

01:08:57   engines try to resolve merges changes [TS]

01:09:00   and conflicts using time this isn't [TS]

01:09:02   always the best approach but this is [TS]

01:09:03   basically how a lot of them do it anyway [TS]

01:09:05   so sometimes it salts antennas all [TS]

01:09:08   you've got depending on how the same [TS]

01:09:09   service works right and there's all [TS]

01:09:10   sorts of methods to sync but that but [TS]

01:09:11   using time to help resolve like who [TS]

01:09:14   changed what lasts and whose version of [TS]

01:09:16   there should be the authoritative [TS]

01:09:16   version is a very very common way to do [TS]

01:09:19   it so if you change your date back not [TS]

01:09:22   only are you likely to not only be [TS]

01:09:24   causing a whole bunch of other weird [TS]

01:09:25   stuff to happen for instance late you've [TS]

01:09:28   now created like two copies of December [TS]

01:09:31   1st in your computing environment and [TS]

01:09:33   like so like things can be written to [TS]

01:09:36   the to the file system or things can be [TS]

01:09:38   changed or things can be dated in a way [TS]

01:09:39   that makes them seem like they were [TS]

01:09:41   sequential in one direction but they [TS]

01:09:43   were actually sequential in the other [TS]

01:09:44   direction or like there's so many weird [TS]

01:09:47   things that can happen this doesn't [TS]

01:09:49   usually happen with daylight saving time [TS]

01:09:50   bugs because a that doesn't actually [TS]

01:09:51   change the underlying unix time value of [TS]

01:09:53   the computer and be you're normally [TS]

01:09:55   asleep between 2:00 and 3:00 in the [TS]

01:09:56   morning so it doesn't usually affect you [TS]

01:09:58   and here because you're not usually [TS]

01:09:59   using a computer at that point but [TS]

01:10:01   changing your clock backed by a whole [TS]

01:10:03   day gives you a large opportunity to [TS]

01:10:07   make a whole bunch of changes and and [TS]

01:10:09   create data and make edits to things and [TS]

01:10:11   things like that in a way that will very [TS]

01:10:14   much confuse software and cause weird [TS]

01:10:16   bugs to happen that you might not [TS]

01:10:17   immediately see see and I understand [TS]

01:10:19   that but I think two different comments [TS]

01:10:22   in the chatroom kind of sum up my [TS]

01:10:23   opinion psycho Mac head said tons of [TS]

01:10:25   things not working is better than [TS]

01:10:27   everything not working and I agree with [TS]

01:10:28   that because I your guys aren't wrong [TS]

01:10:30   you're absolutely right but I didn't [TS]

01:10:34   know at the time and I knew I was about [TS]

01:10:36   to go to sleep for the evening and cross [TS]

01:10:37   into this no-man's land I didn't know at [TS]

01:10:40   the time how bad the error was like I [TS]

01:10:42   heard it was just a constant respring [TS]

01:10:43   but I didn't know if it was a constant [TS]

01:10:45   ray spring every two seconds every two [TS]

01:10:48   minutes every two hours and I wanted to [TS]

01:10:52   leave myself the ability to say I don't [TS]

01:10:54   know do a software update without having [TS]

01:10:56   to worry about the respring happening [TS]

01:10:58   every two seconds now as it turns out it [TS]

01:11:01   was not every two seconds there was [TS]

01:11:02   every like two or three minutes but I [TS]

01:11:03   didn't know at the time and [TS]

01:11:04   I knew I was about to go to sleep but [TS]

01:11:07   like Marco said data loss like turning [TS]

01:11:09   your phone off is still the preferable [TS]

01:11:11   one like until the dust settles because [TS]

01:11:13   if you had a sink in just now thinks the [TS]

01:11:15   server-side version is newer than your [TS]

01:11:17   than your day old data which is actually [TS]

01:11:19   updated a second ago and it overwrites [TS]

01:11:21   your locally edited information with [TS]

01:11:23   stuff from the server like you haven't [TS]

01:11:24   actually done anything but you've merely [TS]

01:11:25   changed the date back so it's confused [TS]

01:11:27   about what the latest stuff is and it [TS]

01:11:29   brings that like you could have data [TS]

01:11:30   loss whereas you know the respring thing [TS]

01:11:33   or even just restarting there was not a [TS]

01:11:36   mention of data loss in that and either [TS]

01:11:37   way if you want to avoid it entirely [TS]

01:11:38   turn your phone turn your phone off shut [TS]

01:11:40   it down and wait to find out what the [TS]

01:11:42   deal is that is that is the safest [TS]

01:11:44   possible default [TS]

01:11:45   I don't not saying like you know saying [TS]

01:11:46   like say it's not the end of the world [TS]

01:11:48   like it's you you made a call and you [TS]

01:11:50   probably knew the risks better than most [TS]

01:11:51   people this is mostly for other people [TS]

01:11:53   who think that changing the date has no [TS]

01:11:54   risks associated with it you emphasize [TS]

01:11:56   that it has lots of risks and the [TS]

01:11:59   fallout from it can ripple through for a [TS]

01:12:02   long time and can be hard to distinguish [TS]

01:12:05   problems caused by you changing the date [TS]

01:12:07   and problems caused by the bug and [TS]

01:12:09   problems that still linger after the bug [TS]

01:12:11   is fixed and like I said I think that [TS]

01:12:13   happened people who change the date had [TS]

01:12:15   problems when they tried to apply the [TS]

01:12:16   software update because they had changed [TS]

01:12:18   the date see but the thing is though we [TS]

01:12:21   didn't know or at least I didn't know at [TS]

01:12:23   the time I made this decision what was [TS]

01:12:25   gonna happen and and I don't think just [TS]

01:12:28   turning off my phone in Waiting to the [TS]

01:12:30   next day and trying on another device to [TS]

01:12:32   see what the fix was that to me is not a [TS]

01:12:35   valid option because what if for the [TS]

01:12:37   sake of discussion it was a respring [TS]

01:12:38   every two seconds what am i how am i [TS]

01:12:41   going to accomplish anything at that [TS]

01:12:43   point so my phone goes off and [TS]

01:12:45   everything's working like I that I mean [TS]

01:12:47   I turn it off Friday night everything's [TS]

01:12:49   working Saturday morning I wake up and I [TS]

01:12:52   turn it on immediately Rae Springs [TS]

01:12:55   respring respring now what do I do [TS]

01:12:57   Wow you don't turn on that you don't [TS]

01:12:59   turn on the phone until you know there's [TS]

01:13:00   a fix like or do you know what the [TS]

01:13:01   decision is because like information [TS]

01:13:03   came out like we don't know what we [TS]

01:13:05   don't know now but presumably by the [TS]

01:13:07   next day you wake up and you read here's [TS]

01:13:08   what the deal is is there fixes they're [TS]

01:13:10   not effects how bad is the bug what are [TS]

01:13:12   the possible workarounds was like you [TS]

01:13:14   know like waiting for more information [TS]

01:13:15   to come out of century because more [TS]

01:13:16   information didn't come out in about a [TS]

01:13:17   day [TS]

01:13:17   you learn the shape of this bug you [TS]

01:13:19   learn what what it actually caused you [TS]

01:13:21   learn multiple workarounds including the [TS]

01:13:23   date thing and by then people were [TS]

01:13:24   learning about the problems about having [TS]

01:13:26   a date bug like just I'm just saying [TS]

01:13:27   like patience right and you know know [TS]

01:13:29   your phone's not gonna fix itself when [TS]

01:13:31   it's turned off but it's also not gonna [TS]

01:13:32   get worse [TS]

01:13:32   so like presumably Apple will fix this [TS]

01:13:35   Apple is not going to allow that if it's [TS]

01:13:36   a important bug it's not like Apple's [TS]

01:13:38   gonna be silent for six months about [TS]

01:13:39   this bug and and no one could turn on [TS]

01:13:41   their phones like you're not gonna be [TS]

01:13:42   stuck with the turned off phone forever [TS]

01:13:43   there will be a fix and the more series [TS]

01:13:45   is the the the sooner the fix will be so [TS]

01:13:47   I was like it's like that is the it's [TS]

01:13:49   perhaps the most annoying option but [TS]

01:13:51   it's also the most conservative and [TS]

01:13:52   probably the safest and that's why I [TS]

01:13:53   would rank it above changing the date [TS]

01:13:55   because that is that's that's more a [TS]

01:13:56   risky option it's a way like can I can [TS]

01:13:58   take can I do something they'll expose [TS]

01:14:00   me to a small amount of risk but let me [TS]

01:14:01   not have to let me continue using my [TS]

01:14:03   phone essentially yeah that's exactly [TS]

01:14:05   the math I did and to me being able to [TS]

01:14:07   still use my phone was was worth that [TS]

01:14:10   risk and I'm not saying that I'm right [TS]

01:14:11   I'm just saying I stand by the decision [TS]

01:14:14   I made at the time but anyway as it [TS]

01:14:16   turns out it was not as dire as I [TS]

01:14:18   thought and to be honest John's approach [TS]

01:14:20   in retrospect was the best answer which [TS]

01:14:23   would have been to turn off your phone [TS]

01:14:25   just wait it out see what happens and [TS]

01:14:27   and as I think I said a moment ago it [TS]

01:14:30   turns out that I guess something with [TS]

01:14:32   local notifications was causing an error [TS]

01:14:35   within springboard and springboard is [TS]

01:14:37   you know the the home screen among other [TS]

01:14:38   things and so springboard would crash [TS]

01:14:40   every two or three minutes and this was [TS]

01:14:42   only if you had an app that used a local [TS]

01:14:44   notification and if you're not a iOS [TS]

01:14:47   developer that may not mean a lot to you [TS]

01:14:48   and so a local notification to a user [TS]

01:14:52   looks identical in almost every scenario [TS]

01:14:54   pretty actually every scenario I can [TS]

01:14:56   think of to a push notification but the [TS]

01:14:58   difference is rather than coming from an [TS]

01:14:59   external tear device server [TS]

01:15:01   it's coming from your phone itself so [TS]

01:15:03   your phone is either saying maybe in a [TS]

01:15:05   background process oh I would like to [TS]

01:15:07   send a you know have a notification show [TS]

01:15:09   up or perhaps in the case of like dude [TS]

01:15:12   eue [TS]

01:15:12   hey this person has asked for a reminder [TS]

01:15:15   about this thing they want to do at you [TS]

01:15:18   know nine o'clock in the evening they [TS]

01:15:19   the person has asked to be reminded that [TS]

01:15:22   ATP is being recorded and so they'll [TS]

01:15:25   schedule our reminder locally on the [TS]

01:15:27   device for nine o'clock on Wednesday [TS]

01:15:29   evening [TS]

01:15:30   and those were the things that were [TS]

01:15:32   causing the problem and by the time I [TS]

01:15:33   woke up there was actually a fix [TS]

01:15:36   available and before we talked about [TS]

01:15:39   what that fix was do we have any other [TS]

01:15:40   commentary about the bug itself yeah [TS]

01:15:45   Marcos commentary the best solution [TS]

01:15:48   obviously is always luck which is what I [TS]

01:15:50   had because I was way behind in Twitter [TS]

01:15:52   so like I said I'm reading about the bug [TS]

01:15:54   like hours and hours like I'm reading [TS]

01:15:56   hours and hours old tweets so the whole [TS]

01:15:57   rest of the world knows how it turns out [TS]

01:15:59   already but I don't know I'm reading you [TS]

01:16:01   know five hours ago tweets right in like [TS]

01:16:02   look at this bug and I'm rolling through [TS]

01:16:04   and and so I'm learning about it in real [TS]

01:16:05   time on my phone all the while I'm like [TS]

01:16:09   ant wait see how this turns out is it [TS]

01:16:10   gonna turn out that my phone is affected [TS]

01:16:11   by it I'm like well it's not rebooting [TS]

01:16:14   to springboard constantly right you [TS]

01:16:15   won't believe what happens next [TS]

01:16:17   yeah right so basically I lucked out [TS]

01:16:19   because I guess I don't have any [TS]

01:16:20   applications that do local notifications [TS]

01:16:21   so I got to read the story of my present [TS]

01:16:26   you know backwards in time and that was [TS]

01:16:29   fun and so yeah if you can rely on luck [TS]

01:16:30   I highly recommend it my solution was to [TS]

01:16:34   be a member of multiple slack groups [TS]

01:16:36   where Casey was also a member because on [TS]

01:16:40   the night of December 1st when this was [TS]

01:16:41   all coming out like right before [TS]

01:16:42   midnight that it was going to start [TS]

01:16:44   happening [TS]

01:16:44   Casey posted in every slack that he was [TS]

01:16:47   in about this horrible thing I was read [TS]

01:16:51   his slack things backwards in time to [TS]

01:16:52   him like oh wow Casey really went all [TS]

01:16:54   out warning the world about this again [TS]

01:16:56   at the time like I didn't have a whole [TS]

01:16:58   lot of facts but what I did know was [TS]

01:17:01   that people in the future and by that I [TS]

01:17:03   mean in like Australia New Zealand were [TS]

01:17:05   we're having serious problems with their [TS]

01:17:07   phones and so these are all like [TS]

01:17:08   especially in the slacks you know I [TS]

01:17:10   didn't really saw it sound the alarm too [TS]

01:17:12   heavily on Twitter but for for my [TS]

01:17:14   friends and slack I want you guys to be [TS]

01:17:17   able to react and do something about [TS]

01:17:18   this be that turn off your phone be it [TS]

01:17:20   set your clocks whatever the case may be [TS]

01:17:21   because the initial reports of course [TS]

01:17:24   because it was a game of telephone where [TS]

01:17:25   it was oh my god your phone is going to [TS]

01:17:27   explode if you cross 11 12:15 on [TS]

01:17:30   Saturday morning and so yes I was [TS]

01:17:32   spamming everyone but I stand by that as [TS]

01:17:35   well because I would much rather roles [TS]

01:17:37   reversed I would much rather see Marco [TS]

01:17:39   or John spam me in two or three [TS]

01:17:41   different slacks and say oh god set your [TS]

01:17:43   clock back [TS]

01:17:44   and at least be or make a decision you [TS]

01:17:46   know what I want to do rather than have [TS]

01:17:48   Marco or John be like I'm sure it's fine [TS]

01:17:51   well and I appreciate because that's how [TS]

01:17:53   I heard about it because like so I you [TS]

01:17:55   know I had like a night like I think I [TS]

01:17:56   figured I was doing that I was like you [TS]

01:17:57   know spending time with family so I [TS]

01:17:58   wasn't browsing the internet I wasn't on [TS]

01:18:00   Twitter that night and as I mentioned [TS]

01:18:02   previously I don't have Twitter on my [TS]

01:18:03   phone anymore so I don't browse to it on [TS]

01:18:05   my phone so I was getting ready I was I [TS]

01:18:06   was brushing my teeth and reading my [TS]

01:18:07   phone because I'm a hopeless technology [TS]

01:18:09   addicts and I read my phone while I [TS]

01:18:10   brush my teeth [TS]

01:18:11   yep you got to hold the toothbrush like [TS]

01:18:15   straight down so if face ID will [TS]

01:18:17   recognize you anyway house you can spend [TS]

01:18:21   two minutes thinking no so anyway so I'm [TS]

01:18:28   brush my teeth and I started seeing all [TS]

01:18:31   these messages from you and I started [TS]

01:18:32   thinking and and by that time I we we [TS]

01:18:34   had known by that point this was this is [TS]

01:18:36   like four minutes before midnight but we [TS]

01:18:39   knew at that point that it had to do [TS]

01:18:42   with recurring local notifications only [TS]

01:18:44   so as I'm sitting there brushing my [TS]

01:18:46   teeth I'm like oh my god wait okay you [TS]

01:18:49   know it's a quick inventory of like [TS]

01:18:50   household devices what's gonna be a [TS]

01:18:52   problem like all right all my stuff's on [TS]

01:18:53   the beta so I'm fine [TS]

01:18:55   TIFF oh no her stuff is not on the beta [TS]

01:18:57   I'm thinking like what's the fastest way [TS]

01:18:59   I can solve this problem the next four [TS]

01:19:01   minutes well let's have strongly agreed [TS]

01:19:03   her phone in bed like you never read [TS]

01:19:04   Instagram and like go to sleep and I [TS]

01:19:06   rush I run into a bit out of her hand [TS]

01:19:09   I read the bedroom with the toothbrush [TS]

01:19:11   in my mouth uninstall your water [TS]

01:19:15   reminder app sometime in the next four [TS]

01:19:17   minutes like what why like just just do [TS]

01:19:20   it like why because she could tell I was [TS]

01:19:24   super freaked out about it she had no [TS]

01:19:25   idea what the hell I was talking about [TS]

01:19:26   because I realized that like I was [TS]

01:19:28   thinking like thinking through the what [TS]

01:19:30   she would have on her phone that would [TS]

01:19:32   send recurring local notifications she [TS]

01:19:34   had some kind of like drink more water [TS]

01:19:35   reminding application so I knew that was [TS]

01:19:38   a thing and and I like I you know [TS]

01:19:40   finished with my teeth Reena ran back in [TS]

01:19:42   and I had like two minutes left I was [TS]

01:19:43   like I was like are there any other apps [TS]

01:19:45   that you have on your phone that send [TS]

01:19:47   you notifications that are not from a [TS]

01:19:49   big company because the thing is like [TS]

01:19:51   every other app from a big company is [TS]

01:19:53   going to send remote push notifications [TS]

01:19:56   they're never going to use local [TS]

01:19:57   there oh they're only gonna ever use [TS]

01:19:59   your road the only apps that really ever [TS]

01:20:01   use little notifications at all our apps [TS]

01:20:04   that really need to for some reason like [TS]

01:20:06   you know reminding apps or alarm apps or [TS]

01:20:09   to do apps or overcast for that's an [TS]

01:20:11   implementation detail and so and I knew [TS]

01:20:14   because it was recurring little [TS]

01:20:15   notifications like that that cuts out a [TS]

01:20:17   lot of of potential app types like very [TS]

01:20:22   few apps use recurring little [TS]

01:20:23   notifications so that's why they say wow [TS]

01:20:27   this was a huge problem it was a huge [TS]

01:20:29   problem only for people who use a [TS]

01:20:31   relatively small subset of app types so [TS]

01:20:34   this was actually not nearly as bad as [TS]

01:20:37   it could have been I mean this was a [TS]

01:20:39   problem with anybody who had any other [TS]

01:20:40   any kind of notifications that would've [TS]

01:20:41   been a much bigger problem than it was [TS]

01:20:44   and it was pretty big but it could have [TS]

01:20:46   been way worse so anyway so she got off [TS]

01:20:49   okay after we're installing the reminder [TS]

01:20:50   the water reminder app because I was [TS]

01:20:53   thinking like can I install a beta [TS]

01:20:54   informant nope did not the profile [TS]

01:21:00   install it's not gonna work like yes so [TS]

01:21:03   anyway how do Apple solve this problem [TS]

01:21:05   KC so as it turns out and we we've kind [TS]

01:21:08   of put these pieces not the three of us [TS]

01:21:10   just in general the communities put [TS]

01:21:12   these pieces together after the fact as [TS]

01:21:13   it turns out iOS eleven point two is due [TS]

01:21:15   to come out this week and and I have [TS]

01:21:17   heard conflicting reports what day of [TS]

01:21:18   the week it was supposed to come out and [TS]

01:21:20   it doesn't really matter to be honest [TS]

01:21:22   but it probably wasn't Friday night at [TS]

01:21:23   midnight yeah exactly so you know eleven [TS]

01:21:28   point two was in the hopper so to speak [TS]

01:21:30   and it was imminently going to be [TS]

01:21:31   released and so one would assume that it [TS]

01:21:35   had been heavily Qaid it was pretty much [TS]

01:21:38   ready to go and they were just waiting [TS]

01:21:39   to make sure that their servers were you [TS]

01:21:41   know up to snuff that that you know the [TS]

01:21:43   the emergency response team was there [TS]

01:21:46   and ready to act you know when they hit [TS]

01:21:48   the Go button or whatever that it is [TS]

01:21:50   that Apple does when they release new [TS]

01:21:51   you know iOS point release and so if you [TS]

01:21:55   think about it Apple had a couple of [TS]

01:21:57   choices right thank you I'm kind of [TS]

01:21:59   imagining like Johnny I've in a totally [TS]

01:22:02   white room with a big white button on a [TS]

01:22:05   perfectly formed wooden Apple Store [TS]

01:22:07   table [TS]

01:22:09   go it wouldn't even be labeled though I [TS]

01:22:11   know he hates buttons it would just be a [TS]

01:22:13   spot on the table yeah exactly that he [TS]

01:22:16   would have to just apply some pressure [TS]

01:22:17   to and it would be a forced click button [TS]

01:22:19   he just gives it a meaningful look he [TS]

01:22:20   doesn't but anyway the point is that [TS]

01:22:25   that you know Apple all kidding aside it [TS]

01:22:28   basically two choices they could either [TS]

01:22:29   put together a fix just for this issue [TS]

01:22:32   and try to like emergency cue a test it [TS]

01:22:35   and try to put together an emergency [TS]

01:22:37   patch and start shipping this patch or [TS]

01:22:39   it was it was very quickly obvious of [TS]

01:22:42   people on the beta we're not having this [TS]

01:22:43   problem like Marco had said and so they [TS]

01:22:46   could alternatively just say you know [TS]

01:22:47   what the hell with it [TS]

01:22:49   11.2 wasn't supposed to go out like [TS]

01:22:51   Marco said at midnight Eastern on a [TS]

01:22:54   Friday evening and gosh knows that if [TS]

01:22:56   you've ever done anything with software [TS]

01:22:58   you never want to deploy on a Friday [TS]

01:23:00   night because that means you're really [TS]

01:23:02   on a Friday at all because that means [TS]

01:23:03   your weekend is all but assured Lee [TS]

01:23:05   screwed but at this point they were [TS]

01:23:06   screwed anyway so we why not and what [TS]

01:23:09   they ended up doing was releasing 11.2 [TS]

01:23:11   early which I think was the smart choice [TS]

01:23:15   I mean it's easy for me to armchair [TS]

01:23:16   quarterback but hey that's what we do it [TS]

01:23:19   to me I think that was the best choice [TS]

01:23:20   they could have made but it certainly [TS]

01:23:22   had its own set of penalties in in no [TS]

01:23:26   small part because say you know the [TS]

01:23:28   release notes for example if I'm not [TS]

01:23:30   mistaken mentioned Apple what does it [TS]

01:23:32   Apple pay cash is that what it's called [TS]

01:23:34   basically peer-to-peer Apple pay Apple [TS]

01:23:36   venmo Apple venmo slash Apple Square [TS]

01:23:39   cash well anyways so that was mentioned [TS]

01:23:41   in the release notes and then all of us [TS]

01:23:42   including me went to go find it and it [TS]

01:23:44   wasn't there and we were like well what [TS]

01:23:45   what's going on here and as it turns out [TS]

01:23:47   there was a server side switch they [TS]

01:23:48   needed to flip which I think they did [TS]

01:23:50   Monday or it was early this week [TS]

01:23:52   regardless but you know it was it was [TS]

01:23:54   clear that this was not their intention [TS]

01:23:56   but given the the hand they had in front [TS]

01:23:58   of him I think this was the best [TS]

01:23:59   decision they could have made I mean [TS]

01:24:01   Marco do you would you say that you [TS]

01:24:03   would do the same thing in their shoes I [TS]

01:24:04   mean I don't really have enough [TS]

01:24:05   information to know what their options [TS]

01:24:06   really were here but probably I mean see [TS]

01:24:09   it like I was using the 11.2 beta for a [TS]

01:24:11   while and it was seemed fine to me but [TS]

01:24:13   that's you know that's just one person [TS]

01:24:15   if it was truly just like a couple of [TS]

01:24:17   days from release then yeah that seems [TS]

01:24:20   like a totally fine solution [TS]

01:24:22   the problem is is embarrassing the the [TS]

01:24:24   fact that they keep having problems with [TS]

01:24:27   iPhones with related to date and time is [TS]

01:24:30   concerning for things like you know [TS]

01:24:33   alarms not going off in certain days for [TS]

01:24:34   people and weird daylight savings bugs [TS]

01:24:37   like it like I am definitely concerned [TS]

01:24:39   the number of Prague's that iOS [TS]

01:24:43   specifically has about local local date [TS]

01:24:47   and time issues I thought we were done [TS]

01:24:49   with those a few years ago and [TS]

01:24:50   apparently we're not and that I think [TS]

01:24:52   could use some investigation on Apple's [TS]

01:24:56   part maybe maybe some auditing and some [TS]

01:24:58   you know really making sure that code is [TS]

01:25:00   solid because we shouldn't be having [TS]

01:25:02   those kinds of bugs in 2017 [TS]

01:25:03   you know Apple's better than that but as [TS]

01:25:06   for the actual fix they did to fix this [TS]

01:25:08   horribly embarrassing bug yeah it seems [TS]

01:25:11   fine you know and I should also mention [TS]

01:25:13   there was something going on with Mac OS [TS]

01:25:15   as well and I never really got a clear [TS]

01:25:18   read on what it was but like you guys [TS]

01:25:20   heard that month thirteen is that about [TS]

01:25:24   thirteen tell me again why I should [TS]

01:25:27   update the High Sierra this one thirteen [TS]

01:25:29   is it is it in bounds or is it out of [TS]

01:25:32   bounds I forget you'll never know no but [TS]

01:25:34   it wasn't even the month thirteen thing [TS]

01:25:35   there's something to do with like [TS]

01:25:37   spotlight I think or something like that [TS]

01:25:38   I forget exactly what it was but there [TS]

01:25:40   was a a not widespread but medium spread [TS]

01:25:44   I don't even know if that's really a [TS]

01:25:45   phrase but a medium spread bug that was [TS]

01:25:48   affecting I believe High Sierras well [TS]

01:25:51   and I can't remember what the hell it [TS]

01:25:52   was but it was something to do with like [TS]

01:25:54   your menu bar or spotlight or something [TS]

01:25:55   like that I haven't seen that one I mean [TS]

01:25:59   I'm afraid to look at my console for the [TS]

01:26:01   month thirteen messages but still going [TS]

01:26:04   on isn't it did ten point whatever point [TS]

01:26:06   to fix it I would I looked at the [TS]

01:26:08   release notes for briefly and I thought [TS]

01:26:10   the very first item would be month [TS]

01:26:11   thirteen is now no longer balanced we've [TS]

01:26:14   added a new month thirteen to the [TS]

01:26:15   calendar to fix this bug so far has to [TS]

01:26:19   find like the the code in corefoundation [TS]

01:26:20   that runs this assertion that is [TS]

01:26:23   printing printing this message and like [TS]

01:26:25   I know and then the grand scheme of all [TS]

01:26:27   things we talked about with the you know [TS]

01:26:29   springboard crashing repeatedly and you [TS]

01:26:32   know the whatever the the problem was [TS]

01:26:35   last week that I've already forgot [TS]

01:26:36   like 1:13 being out of bounds but to be [TS]

01:26:38   clear what we're talking about is a [TS]

01:26:39   message that appears in the console on [TS]

01:26:41   your Mac that repeatedly tells you that [TS]

01:26:44   month 13 is out of bounds like multiple [TS]

01:26:45   times per second like slowing down your [TS]

01:26:47   Mac yeah it depends on where it's coming [TS]

01:26:50   from what applications you have running [TS]

01:26:52   but but it sounds like you know whatever [TS]

01:26:54   your Mac still works you just got a [TS]

01:26:55   bunch of noise in the console not a big [TS]

01:26:56   deal but something about the sort of the [TS]

01:27:00   you know the hygienic programmer in me [TS]

01:27:03   finds that one all the more bothersome [TS]

01:27:06   because it hasn't been fixed and sort of [TS]

01:27:08   knowing that your computer is as [TS]

01:27:10   emitting 10 or 20 of this identical log [TS]

01:27:14   message per second every second every [TS]

01:27:16   day that you're using it and Apple [TS]

01:27:19   hasn't fixed it [TS]

01:27:19   kind of like gnaws at the back of my [TS]

01:27:21   mind like it is it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

01:27:24   sit well with me regardless of the [TS]

01:27:27   actual implications like no they use a [TS]

01:27:28   database format and it coalesces [TS]

01:27:31   duplicates and really it's just [TS]

01:27:32   incrementing a counter and you're not [TS]

01:27:34   actually storing duplicates in Bob a Bob [TS]

01:27:35   like whatever the I don't care about the [TS]

01:27:37   technical things like it's just you know [TS]

01:27:39   and maybe also as a server-side para [TS]

01:27:41   programmer noise and logs is bad noise [TS]

01:27:44   and logs rent you from seeing signal [TS]

01:27:46   stop spewing stuff to logs like it's the [TS]

01:27:49   thing that makes you go around the [TS]

01:27:50   company with the big virtual stick and [TS]

01:27:51   about people I stopped stop filling the [TS]

01:27:55   logs with crap if you're debugging fine [TS]

01:27:56   debug and then turn off your log [TS]

01:27:58   messages like keep the logs clean so I [TS]

01:28:01   really hope that my 13 well no longer be [TS]

01:28:04   out of bounds yeah that's that's the one [TS]

01:28:07   big thing like that when they Channing [TS]

01:28:08   introduces new login framework I think [TS]

01:28:10   it was what last year or the year before [TS]

01:28:11   when they introduced the new logging [TS]

01:28:13   framework like they tad like oh it's so [TS]

01:28:15   lightweight you can just leave you know [TS]

01:28:17   incredibly verbose logging enable at the [TS]

01:28:19   time and the system will handle it [TS]

01:28:20   because like oh it's so efficient and [TS]

01:28:22   like if no one's looking if no one's [TS]

01:28:24   looking at the log it doesn't get [TS]

01:28:25   written anywhere or something like that [TS]

01:28:26   like there's all sorts of details that [TS]

01:28:28   make it super efficient but like yeah [TS]

01:28:29   I'm with you like like first of all [TS]

01:28:31   looking at console or even the Xcode [TS]

01:28:33   developer log is nearly useless since [TS]

01:28:37   this change because the the apparent [TS]

01:28:40   message with an apple when when they did [TS]

01:28:41   this was now that we've made logging [TS]

01:28:43   really cheap we can just dump diarrhea [TS]

01:28:46   in the logs constantly from everything [TS]

01:28:48   and it makes it [TS]

01:28:50   really hard to actually look at the logs [TS]

01:28:53   when you're having a problem and find [TS]

01:28:55   anything useful at all or to run [TS]

01:28:57   anything on a tethered device with Xcode [TS]

01:29:00   and even if you do the whole like you [TS]

01:29:01   know OS whatever iOS disabled mode [TS]

01:29:04   disabled whatever that macro is you're [TS]

01:29:06   supposed to set doesn't actually work it [TS]

01:29:07   doesn't actually do want and it's just [TS]

01:29:10   like the every part of iOS and Mac OS [TS]

01:29:13   now just dumps so much crap to the log [TS]

01:29:15   that it has made the log useless and not [TS]

01:29:19   only for developers but also just for [TS]

01:29:20   users like sometimes some form answer [TS]

01:29:22   will be like hey go look at console dot [TS]

01:29:24   app for the for something like this and [TS]

01:29:26   that might tell us an answer [TS]

01:29:28   III really strongly disagree with the [TS]

01:29:32   Apple you know way of doing this now [TS]

01:29:34   we're logging tons of unnecessary crap [TS]

01:29:36   all the time is considered ok because [TS]

01:29:38   they made logs really cheap yeah and and [TS]

01:29:41   for the developer it's like I think is [TS]

01:29:42   actually more reasonable to say oh just [TS]

01:29:45   whitelist your application like use our [TS]

01:29:46   filtering features to just see logs from [TS]

01:29:49   your applications but for for users like [TS]

01:29:52   console has historically been granted [TS]

01:29:53   one of the last resorts but like when [TS]

01:29:55   you're really desperate to see what the [TS]

01:29:57   deal is you will probably find yourself [TS]

01:30:01   launching console and saying maybe [TS]

01:30:03   there's a messaging console that will [TS]

01:30:04   let me know what the problem is and in [TS]

01:30:07   that case you can't run any filters [TS]

01:30:09   because you don't know what you want to [TS]

01:30:10   filter you don't know what application [TS]

01:30:12   or what part of the system you don't [TS]

01:30:13   know what to filter for you can't [TS]

01:30:14   whitelist you could selectively [TS]

01:30:16   blacklist if you had eliminated sources [TS]

01:30:18   of things but like sort of an overview [TS]

01:30:21   of like hey is anything weird going on [TS]

01:30:23   in my system that's why in server-side [TS]

01:30:25   application is that the general best [TS]

01:30:27   practices did not have noisy laws to [TS]

01:30:29   have at least one log that it basically [TS]

01:30:30   when everything's okay then the log is [TS]

01:30:33   relatively quiet or there's only one [TS]

01:30:35   kind of log message there we're like in [TS]

01:30:37   some way where you could say look if [TS]

01:30:38   anything other than this normal state [TS]

01:30:40   appears here we have a problem and the [TS]

01:30:42   normal state may be total quiet so which [TS]

01:30:44   would mean that every single line to [TS]

01:30:46   this log means there's a problem or the [TS]

01:30:48   normal state could mean log messages of [TS]

01:30:50   this type are fine but if you see any [TS]

01:30:51   other kind of log message that that's an [TS]

01:30:53   indicative of a problem that's what you [TS]

01:30:55   need if you just have a big dumping [TS]

01:30:56   ground no matter how good your filtering [TS]

01:30:58   facilities are no matter how good you [TS]

01:30:59   are keeping up your whitelist or [TS]

01:31:00   blacklist of filtering it's very [TS]

01:31:02   difficult to [TS]

01:31:03   especially in the case of an emergency [TS]

01:31:05   hat you have no place to look anymore [TS]

01:31:07   where a human being can look at it [TS]

01:31:09   inside it's not like normal to you it's [TS]

01:31:10   like I don't know it's just a bunch of [TS]

01:31:11   butts just a bunch of crap it's is it [TS]

01:31:13   more crap or less crap than we were [TS]

01:31:15   before and then finally like month [TS]

01:31:17   thirteen of that bounce it represents [TS]

01:31:19   some kind of error is that a programming [TS]

01:31:20   error is it a data error whatever the [TS]

01:31:22   source of the error is is an assertion [TS]

01:31:23   that's failing and we all agree that [TS]

01:31:25   there is no month thirteen in the [TS]

01:31:27   calendar that we all use [TS]

01:31:28   so something somewhere is wrong cuz [TS]

01:31:29   someone should fix it so we don't have [TS]

01:31:31   to see that message twenty times a [TS]

01:31:32   second should this be a long message [TS]

01:31:34   shouldn't this be an assertion shouldn't [TS]

01:31:35   it crash like that's you know by the way [TS]

01:31:38   also for the record I I have ten [TS]

01:31:40   thirteen two on my laptop I just booted [TS]

01:31:43   it up this looked it I'm still getting [TS]

01:31:45   month 13 is out of bounds errors in the [TS]

01:31:46   console so 10 13 2 does not fix this bug [TS]

01:31:49   it also doesn't fix my font smoothing [TS]

01:31:51   bug because the unchecking the use font [TS]

01:31:54   smoothing when available box still is [TS]

01:31:56   completely broken now [TS]

01:31:58   what three months after the release of [TS]

01:32:00   this OS to major point releases in if [TS]

01:32:02   you if you have that box off everything [TS]

01:32:05   is still completely broken [TS]

01:32:06   so thanks Apple I why am I being pushed [TS]

01:32:09   so hard to use this OS why is this being [TS]

01:32:10   pushed forcibly through my App Store [TS]

01:32:12   like well it promote it when it's ready [TS]

01:32:15   it's not ready sorry that month 13 thing [TS]

01:32:20   I don't think crashing is probably [TS]

01:32:21   perfect is this of a date if it's a data [TS]

01:32:22   driven error the data is bad the code is [TS]

01:32:24   not the code is just telling you the [TS]

01:32:25   video is bad and in the verbose way in [TS]

01:32:28   the tradition that you just said of like [TS]

01:32:29   oh if you find something wrong and [TS]

01:32:30   you're not going to throw an exception [TS]

01:32:32   just log it so you'll know about it [TS]

01:32:34   but if it happens 20 times a second [TS]

01:32:36   that's not great so I'm assuming this is [TS]

01:32:38   some sort of data bug where some piece [TS]

01:32:40   of data somewhere either from the [TS]

01:32:41   network or on the system has a bad date [TS]

01:32:43   in it or some bad date math added one to [TS]

01:32:46   a 12 and got a 13 not a reason for the [TS]

01:32:50   coding question to throw an exception in [TS]

01:32:52   that case because it could be inside [TS]

01:32:54   some important subsystem that doesn't [TS]

01:32:55   want to like take down the whole system [TS]

01:32:56   just because it got some bad data or [TS]

01:32:57   whatever I'm just saying find where the [TS]

01:32:59   bug is and fix it and obviously it is [TS]

01:33:01   less urgent than everything else we've [TS]

01:33:02   talked about but you know the [TS]

01:33:05   irrationally [TS]

01:33:06   like I said hygiene wise for me if it [TS]

01:33:08   feels mentally urgent to me that this [TS]

01:33:10   stop being on in the console so not a [TS]

01:33:16   good week for Apple [TS]

01:33:17   streak between the root bug in this bug [TS]

01:33:20   it's just not not good but not actually [TS]

01:33:23   I'm gonna say not you know so it's not [TS]

01:33:25   good lots of bugs but not actually that [TS]

01:33:26   bad either because in the grand scheme [TS]

01:33:28   of things Apple like either through luck [TS]

01:33:30   partially through luck but also [TS]

01:33:32   partially through things working the [TS]

01:33:34   ways they're supposed to Apple got fixes [TS]

01:33:36   out in a timely manner the fix is more [TS]

01:33:40   or less work plus or minus some minor [TS]

01:33:42   fixes to the fixes the user base in [TS]

01:33:45   general you know could have been it [TS]

01:33:48   could have been much worse but it wasn't [TS]

01:33:50   I mean the reasons marco said local [TS]

01:33:51   notifications only the fact that the [TS]

01:33:54   fixes came out pretty quickly I'm not [TS]

01:33:56   sure if any of these things even made it [TS]

01:33:57   out of the little tech nerd circle onto [TS]

01:33:59   like the evening news or whatever into [TS]

01:34:01   the wider world like was their front [TS]

01:34:03   page New York Times story about [TS]

01:34:04   everybody's iPhones bricking like that [TS]

01:34:05   would be worse right so it was [TS]

01:34:07   unfortunate and there was definitely [TS]

01:34:09   some bad luck involved but there was [TS]

01:34:10   also some good luck and I think Apple [TS]

01:34:12   more or less functioned the way it's [TS]

01:34:14   supposed to oh you've got an emergency [TS]

01:34:16   and a bug all hands on deck let's fix [TS]

01:34:19   the problem and they fixed it so you [TS]

01:34:22   know you can get you can get pessimistic [TS]

01:34:23   about the fact that there's all these [TS]

01:34:24   bugs and we've talked about that at [TS]

01:34:26   length but I'm I'm mostly satisfied that [TS]

01:34:29   Apple handled the situation the way you [TS]

01:34:31   would expect a professional good [TS]

01:34:33   organization to handle the situation [TS]

01:34:35   yeah yeah I mean they they're not like [TS]

01:34:39   as angry as I am about how crappy [TS]

01:34:42   they're treating hi Sierra right now and [TS]

01:34:45   how it should not be it should not have [TS]

01:34:46   been released period like this at this [TS]

01:34:48   OS is still a beta and should not have [TS]

01:34:51   been released and if they insisted on [TS]

01:34:53   releasing it they should not be [TS]

01:34:54   promoting it as hard as they are they [TS]

01:34:55   should not be automatically pardoned [TS]

01:34:57   people to install it as much as they are [TS]

01:34:58   but all that being said they are making [TS]

01:35:01   software bugs happen they are fixing [TS]

01:35:03   them you know bugs happen on both [TS]

01:35:05   platforms and alack this isn't just a [TS]

01:35:06   Mac thing like iOS has problems Mac has [TS]

01:35:09   problems as long as they fix the [TS]

01:35:10   problems they're doing their job yeah [TS]

01:35:13   but high sierra is not ready I mean I [TS]

01:35:15   don't know why you say that it's I have [TS]

01:35:17   it on every one of my machines and it's [TS]

01:35:18   been fine it's just very upset about [TS]

01:35:21   fonts moving apparently well and root [TS]

01:35:23   and month 13 like this it's not that it [TS]

01:35:26   has one problem I Sierra has lots of [TS]

01:35:29   problems [TS]

01:35:31   like I don't know I mean it depends on [TS]

01:35:33   if you encounter the problems like if [TS]

01:35:35   it's the example you said I was had all [TS]

01:35:38   these trepidations about installing it [TS]

01:35:39   right and then eventually I just did [TS]

01:35:40   install it on my wife's computer and [TS]

01:35:42   it's been fine I mean I'm sure it's [TS]

01:35:43   console her consoles filling right now [TS]

01:35:45   with Mon 13 being out of bounds but [TS]

01:35:47   beyond that it's more or less works I'm [TS]

01:35:49   it's hard for me to gauge like what is [TS]

01:35:51   the stability of this thing across the [TS]

01:35:52   entire user base some people have more [TS]

01:35:55   problems with than others [TS]

01:35:56   none of us have the Windows Server [TS]

01:35:58   crashing bug which would certainly be [TS]

01:35:59   something that we make us all screaming [TS]

01:36:01   that we shouldn't have upgraded right [TS]

01:36:02   because if your computer crashes every [TS]

01:36:05   30 to 60 minutes like morning crashes [TS]

01:36:08   kernel panics that's bad [TS]

01:36:11   but I don't know I'd like I feel like [TS]

01:36:13   Apple probably knows but the stability [TS]

01:36:14   is like certainly it feels shaky er then [TS]

01:36:17   we wish the Mac operating system ever [TS]

01:36:19   would feel but early early releases of [TS]

01:36:23   all major updates are like and certainly [TS]

01:36:24   as we said in last show it doesn't live [TS]

01:36:26   up to the billing as a stability release [TS]

01:36:29   like as it was pitched but it's hard for [TS]

01:36:32   me to gauge exactly how dire it is and I [TS]

01:36:34   still remember the bad old days of 10 5 [TS]

01:36:37   0 and even 10 6 zero and the zero [TS]

01:36:39   releases back in the old days we're just [TS]

01:36:41   we're just so much worse like like you [TS]

01:36:44   may we'll make you computer unusable but [TS]

01:36:46   mark goes right in that they didn't push [TS]

01:36:47   though so they didn't automatically [TS]

01:36:48   download those and throw things in your [TS]

01:36:49   face to tell you to upgrade like no one [TS]

01:36:51   even knew leopard was out until most of [TS]

01:36:53   us had suffered through 10 5 0 10 5 one [TS]

01:36:55   and 10 5 2 so it's a different world [TS]

01:36:59   yeah tell us about your iPhone John we [TS]

01:37:03   have time but I guess we do my iPhone is [TS]

01:37:05   full what is that so wait what size did [TS]

01:37:08   you get [TS]

01:37:08   I didn't here's the thing when here we [TS]

01:37:12   go we've all seen the Google ads where [TS]

01:37:14   they they're like part of their [TS]

01:37:15   advertising campaign is they show up [TS]

01:37:16   that little dialogue that says like [TS]

01:37:18   never see this again and it's a little [TS]

01:37:20   iOS style it comes up and says like [TS]

01:37:22   whatever says your iPhone is full or [TS]

01:37:23   you're out of storage and remember the [TS]

01:37:25   exact wording but that's that's been an [TS]

01:37:26   ad campaigns for Android devices [TS]

01:37:28   specifically for Google Android devices [TS]

01:37:30   I think for a while now and I had never [TS]

01:37:33   seen that and so when it appeared my [TS]

01:37:35   first question it was how big is this [TS]

01:37:38   phone because I'd forgotten I said [TS]

01:37:39   iPhone 7 I bought it a long time ago I [TS]

01:37:41   don't remember what size I got I was [TS]

01:37:43   surprised to learn that I got [TS]

01:37:45   1:28 which I normally don't do like I [TS]

01:37:48   normally get the smaller size I'm like [TS]

01:37:49   oh I don't have that much stuff on it [TS]

01:37:50   and it's not a big deal I used to be [TS]

01:37:52   that you know back back in the old days [TS]

01:37:56   when the cameras on phones and iPod [TS]

01:37:58   Touches really sucked the biggest thing [TS]

01:38:00   on your phone or iPod Touch which I keep [TS]

01:38:03   saying because that's what I had at the [TS]

01:38:04   time [TS]

01:38:04   where was your music and I was like oh [TS]

01:38:07   I'm not gonna put my home music [TS]

01:38:08   collection on there I'll just put my [TS]

01:38:09   three star plus playlist on there which [TS]

01:38:12   is like the songs that I like from my [TS]

01:38:13   music collection essentially I'll just [TS]

01:38:15   put them in there and that's not that [TS]

01:38:16   big and that's the biggest thing that's [TS]

01:38:17   gonna be on my phone and my music [TS]

01:38:19   collection doesn't grow that much so I [TS]

01:38:20   can go I need to do is get a phone or [TS]

01:38:22   iPod Touch did fits my music collection [TS]

01:38:24   I'll be fine [TS]

01:38:25   but now the cameras on phones and maybe [TS]

01:38:27   iPod Touches are super awesome [TS]

01:38:29   and we all take lots of pictures with it [TS]

01:38:31   and the pictures are big and I filled my [TS]

01:38:34   128 gig phone with yes my music [TS]

01:38:37   collection which doesn't get that much [TS]

01:38:38   bigger [TS]

01:38:38   very often but with photos I filled it [TS]

01:38:42   with photos so you know you go to like [TS]

01:38:44   the dialog box offices go to manage [TS]

01:38:45   storage you look at what's taken up all [TS]

01:38:46   this room and you're like guess what [TS]

01:38:47   photos and then second place music and [TS]

01:38:50   then third place everything else right [TS]

01:38:52   so now I'm in this situation and I'm [TS]

01:38:54   like I still has that game hey it's Mike [TS]

01:38:56   yeah but if your phone fills up like you [TS]

01:38:58   could fix that right it's pretty easy to [TS]

01:39:00   fix and to its credit iOS has this [TS]

01:39:02   pretty nice storage management screen [TS]

01:39:04   where it will suggest a whole bunch of [TS]

01:39:06   things you can do to get space back and [TS]

01:39:07   it will tell you exactly how much space [TS]

01:39:09   you'll get back in priority order the [TS]

01:39:10   biggest things first you can do the [TS]

01:39:13   thing where you let the operating system [TS]

01:39:14   offload apps that you don't use and it [TS]

01:39:16   tells you what the consequences of that [TS]

01:39:17   are and it tells you how much space [TS]

01:39:18   they'll stay you can get rid of [TS]

01:39:20   attachments on messages and it tells you [TS]

01:39:21   how much space you'll save you can [TS]

01:39:23   delete old messages all over than a year [TS]

01:39:24   and it tells you how much space that [TS]

01:39:25   will save but all sorts of stuff like [TS]

01:39:26   that I was really impressed with that [TS]

01:39:28   see that screen which I'd never seen [TS]

01:39:30   before my problem was I didn't want to [TS]

01:39:33   do any of those things what I wanted to [TS]

01:39:35   happen was iCloud forward library to say [TS]

01:39:37   I am now going to eject photos that you [TS]

01:39:40   haven't looked at in a long time and [TS]

01:39:42   save only the tiniest of thumbnails for [TS]