The Accidental Tech Podcast

253: I Think I Ordered One


01:00:00   percent off your first purchase make [TS]

01:00:01   your next move with a beautiful website [TS]

01:00:03   from Squarespace I actually had a call [TS]

01:00:08   with Apple PR last week about the iMac [TS]

01:00:11   Pro after we recorded what did you get a [TS]

01:00:14   call Casey I didn't get a call I did not [TS]

01:00:16   get to go out of course I didn't get a [TS]

01:00:17   call I mean come on you sound like the [TS]

01:00:20   biggest of iMac Pro fans in the fray [TS]

01:00:21   they would call Casey you know yeah [TS]

01:00:23   Casey has a review unit that would be [TS]

01:00:26   that would be the ultimate trol oh my [TS]

01:00:28   god that would that be amazing but no I [TS]

01:00:30   have received no calls of any sort I am [TS]

01:00:32   I am not special well anyway they reach [TS]

01:00:36   out to me and said they wanted to [TS]

01:00:37   schedule a call I was very pleasantly [TS]

01:00:39   surprised and so I prepared some [TS]

01:00:41   questions and I you know didn't know [TS]

01:00:43   what to expect but it was really nice it [TS]

01:00:46   was really you know pretty pretty open [TS]

01:00:48   pretty laid-back I mean you know and to [TS]

01:00:50   just set the the expectations a little [TS]

01:00:53   bit like sometimes people will get mad [TS]

01:00:55   at you know like somebody like like when [TS]

01:00:56   John grouper has his podcast where he'll [TS]

01:00:59   occasionally have an Apple executive on [TS]

01:01:00   some people get mad that he doesn't ask [TS]

01:01:02   certain questions like things like you [TS]

01:01:05   know when's the next Mac Pro coming cuz [TS]

01:01:07   like you know the reality is like apples [TS]

01:01:09   not going to tell you about future [TS]

01:01:11   products it's kind of a waste of a [TS]

01:01:12   question like if you're only given a [TS]

01:01:14   limited amount of time it's a waste of [TS]

01:01:16   time to ask them questions they are [TS]

01:01:17   unlikely to answer or Lord likely to [TS]

01:01:20   give you the answer you want you know [TS]

01:01:22   like it's so like asking about like when [TS]

01:01:24   future products are coming or really [TS]

01:01:26   asking anything about future products is [TS]

01:01:29   a waste of time so I didn't I'm sure [TS]

01:01:32   someone's gonna be mad and write in [TS]

01:01:33   because of something I didn't ask but [TS]

01:01:35   that was generally there might be things [TS]

01:01:38   I just didn't think about but generally [TS]

01:01:40   there were a lot of things that I didn't [TS]

01:01:41   ask because the real question even if it [TS]

01:01:44   wasn't a phrase a certain way you can [TS]

01:01:46   tell the real question is really about a [TS]

01:01:48   future product so for example like I [TS]

01:01:50   wanted to ask about like you know why [TS]

01:01:52   are there so many USB a ports and a card [TS]

01:01:55   reader on the back but I knew like [TS]

01:01:57   that's really a question about the [TS]

01:01:59   MacBook Pro that was my question you did [TS]

01:02:01   so you didn't ask that was my first [TS]

01:02:02   thing to ask you you didn't ask my [TS]

01:02:03   question I actually did kind of ask it [TS]

01:02:06   but I didn't get the response that was [TS]

01:02:08   like well you know our Pro customers [TS]

01:02:10   hated the MacBook Pro like no it wasn't [TS]

01:02:11   like that it was basically explaining [TS]

01:02:13   like you know [TS]

01:02:13   we offer the ports as many as we could [TS]

01:02:15   for a pro customers it's like that kind [TS]

01:02:17   of thing ya know that's what that's that [TS]

01:02:19   question there's those type of questions [TS]

01:02:21   because you can't ask them about future [TS]

01:02:22   things you can only ask them about the [TS]

01:02:23   product so basically that's that's the [TS]

01:02:25   only way you ever you mean anything is [TS]

01:02:26   to say why does product that you're at [TS]

01:02:29   that we're talking about right now have [TS]

01:02:31   a feature right so right why doesn't it [TS]

01:02:34   you can't even say why does the iMac Pro [TS]

01:02:37   have USBA ports and the MacBook Pro [TS]

01:02:39   doesn't you have to just say I noticed [TS]

01:02:42   there's a lot of USB 8 ports in the back [TS]

01:02:43   why are those there or like why does it [TS]

01:02:45   have them and like in to give them the [TS]

01:02:47   opportunity to give their canned PR [TS]

01:02:48   answer and if they don't have a camp [TS]

01:02:50   your answer because I thought you know [TS]

01:02:51   whatever ask that then they have to [TS]

01:02:53   think on their feet and maybe you get a [TS]

01:02:54   little bit of insight but sometimes [TS]

01:02:55   there may be very forthcoming about you [TS]

01:02:57   know like they could say there's some [TS]

01:02:59   specific customers that we talk to that [TS]

01:03:01   really important USB or peripherals and [TS]

01:03:02   we thought like you never know what [TS]

01:03:03   they're gonna say and that's the way to [TS]

01:03:04   get get legit information out of it you [TS]

01:03:06   just have to know how to phrase it not [TS]

01:03:08   as this computer doesn't have them what [TS]

01:03:10   is the iMac Pro have them because that's [TS]

01:03:11   not going to put them in the right frame [TS]

01:03:13   of mind to give you any good info right [TS]

01:03:15   exactly anyway it's very clear that they [TS]

01:03:19   really are very heavily focused on [TS]

01:03:21   developers for this machine you know it [TS]

01:03:24   wasn't immediately obvious when the PR [TS]

01:03:26   first came out like on whatever day it [TS]

01:03:27   was that all the all the embargoes that [TS]

01:03:29   said on that like the first week review [TS]

01:03:30   units it wasn't incredibly obvious then [TS]

01:03:32   because everything that came out first [TS]

01:03:34   was all like youtubers and so we all [TS]

01:03:37   thought myself included like wow they [TS]

01:03:38   just gave it to youtubers that's kind of [TS]

01:03:40   I guess that's understandable but then [TS]

01:03:42   as it turned out like later that day we [TS]

01:03:44   saw a bunch of like tweets and blog [TS]

01:03:46   posts many of which were from developers [TS]

01:03:48   and it's very clear that they actually [TS]

01:03:51   were reaching out to lot developers for [TS]

01:03:53   this and developers just aren't that [TS]

01:03:54   good at like you know being at minute [TS]

01:03:56   one after an embargo and stuff like that [TS]

01:03:58   because developers are not [TS]

01:04:00   you know usually reviewers or [TS]

01:04:01   journalists so that's you know it's kind [TS]

01:04:04   of like trying to coordinate cats to all [TS]

01:04:06   do something [TS]

01:04:06   well I still believe the cats are all a [TS]

01:04:08   hive mind and they're all the same cat [TS]

01:04:10   just different visions of the same cat [TS]

01:04:13   yeah very strong focus on developers [TS]

01:04:15   here they really you could tell that [TS]

01:04:17   they worked with lot of developers and [TS]

01:04:19   development they talked to a lot of [TS]

01:04:20   developers they clearly cared a lot [TS]

01:04:22   about developer needs because a lot of [TS]

01:04:25   these are gonna sell to high-end [TS]

01:04:26   developers they're gonna sell [TS]

01:04:27   - you know just people like me who are [TS]

01:04:30   willing to spend the money on a very [TS]

01:04:31   very fast machine for our app [TS]

01:04:33   development they're gonna sell to you [TS]

01:04:35   know VR developers you know hopefully [TS]

01:04:37   and you know high end developers content [TS]

01:04:39   creators and cetera so like they were [TS]

01:04:40   very concerned about making sure that [TS]

01:04:42   this was a good machine for developers [TS]

01:04:44   and I really respect that and even [TS]

01:04:46   though you know it's kind of I'm a [TS]

01:04:48   little bit biased and that because I'm a [TS]

01:04:49   developer and this worked out for me [TS]

01:04:50   because they wanted to talk to me [TS]

01:04:52   so obviously I'm a little bit biased but [TS]

01:04:54   I thought that was a really good angle [TS]

01:04:56   they seemed sincere about it they seem [TS]

01:04:57   like they've really done their homework [TS]

01:04:58   then their diligence and done their [TS]

01:04:59   research and for instance like one of [TS]

01:05:02   the things was that 10 core they find is [TS]

01:05:05   is the most ideal configuration for most [TS]

01:05:07   developer workflows and they know this [TS]

01:05:09   because they actually did tests and you [TS]

01:05:11   know work of people and figured out what [TS]

01:05:12   people do and and were able to tell that [TS]

01:05:15   like usually after about the 10 core [TS]

01:05:17   mark the you know today's tools tend to [TS]

01:05:20   not use many of the cores after that or [TS]

01:05:22   your bottlenecked by other things like [TS]

01:05:24   i/o so that made total sense one of [TS]

01:05:27   these I asked about because you know [TS]

01:05:29   last show we had a lot of discussion [TS]

01:05:30   about the thermal design of the iMac Pro [TS]

01:05:34   and and about the idea that they were [TS]

01:05:36   down clocking the the two base CPUs [TS]

01:05:39   violate 10% or something at their base [TS]

01:05:41   clocks and we're kind of saying you know [TS]

01:05:44   John had a lot of thoughts about it and [TS]

01:05:45   kind of saying like you know why drop [TS]

01:05:47   down the performance to fit in the [TS]

01:05:50   enclosure that nobody was asking you to [TS]

01:05:51   fit it in so I asked a lot about this [TS]

01:05:54   and they were pretty unwavering about [TS]

01:05:58   that they didn't like cram it in here [TS]

01:06:02   unnecessarily they tried to see if they [TS]

01:06:06   could fit workstation components into [TS]

01:06:08   this case and they could you know they [TS]

01:06:11   did a lot of redesigning of the thermal [TS]

01:06:12   so like because there is no 3.5 inch [TS]

01:06:15   disc offered in the iMac Pro that frees [TS]

01:06:18   up a pretty large block of pretty [TS]

01:06:21   premium space right in the middle and [TS]

01:06:23   and you know the screen I have just [TS]

01:06:25   compared to the in terms of my Mac are [TS]

01:06:26   huge and it certainly does seem like [TS]

01:06:29   they have filled a lot of that space [TS]

01:06:30   with like heatsink basically because it [TS]

01:06:34   certainly has a massive heatsink [TS]

01:06:36   apparatus back there from the pictures [TS]

01:06:37   so the the impression I got from this [TS]

01:06:39   question is that [TS]

01:06:41   they didn't have to compromise to fit [TS]

01:06:45   the workstation parts into this case [TS]

01:06:47   they designed it it fit and there seems [TS]

01:06:50   to be Headroom which I get to in a [TS]

01:06:51   little bit so what do they say about the [TS]

01:06:53   down clocking we had some feedback about [TS]

01:06:55   that so this is the base CPUs that you [TS]

01:06:57   talked about but there's also the GPUs [TS]

01:06:59   which I didn't know whether they were [TS]

01:07:01   down clocking and I speculated that [TS]

01:07:02   maybe they'd be 90% down but someone [TS]

01:07:04   emailed the show to say there are [TS]

01:07:05   actually 83% down clock versus what they [TS]

01:07:08   would be like if you took that same card [TS]

01:07:10   and put it in a PC and so and also one [TS]

01:07:13   other bit of feedback about down [TS]

01:07:14   clocking specifically the GPUs again I [TS]

01:07:17   don't know if the provenance of this [TS]

01:07:19   information is sound or not but someone [TS]

01:07:21   emailed it to suggest that AMD has been [TS]

01:07:24   optimistic with the clock speeds and [TS]

01:07:27   that really if you run them at the [TS]

01:07:29   quote-unquote rated speed it shortens [TS]

01:07:31   their life and Apple cares more about [TS]

01:07:32   them so that they just by you know they [TS]

01:07:34   just always run them slightly down [TS]

01:07:36   clocked anyway just because if they [TS]

01:07:37   don't they'll have reliability problems [TS]

01:07:39   I don't know if that's crash can't fall [TS]

01:07:40   out or just total BS or just speculation [TS]

01:07:43   or whatever but anyway all we know is [TS]

01:07:46   the the numbers we can look at and [TS]

01:07:47   apparently if you buy this exact card [TS]

01:07:50   from AMD and it's on a player card slot [TS]

01:07:53   the iMac is running them 83 percent [TS]

01:07:55   slower which is you know not not [TS]

01:07:59   insignificant so when they say can we [TS]

01:08:00   fit it yes they could fit it but if you [TS]

01:08:02   can fit it by down clocking and using [TS]

01:08:05   slower speed things did you really fit [TS]

01:08:09   it or did you have to compromise them [TS]

01:08:10   something like I feel like their answer [TS]

01:08:12   to you is just rephrasing the question [TS]

01:08:13   like why did you fit everything inside [TS]

01:08:15   the case we wanted to see if we could [TS]

01:08:16   fair yeah but why well I didn't like [TS]

01:08:17   what the real question is why didn't you [TS]

01:08:19   make a new case and that the reason [TS]

01:08:21   there was like old we didn't want to [TS]

01:08:22   spend that much money on it it would be [TS]

01:08:23   a lot of design time we wouldn't you [TS]

01:08:25   know like there's other reasons that [TS]

01:08:26   they're probably not going to tell you [TS]

01:08:27   of why they didn't design a new case [TS]

01:08:29   because surely it is faster to market [TS]

01:08:31   and cost them less money in less time [TS]

01:08:33   and less everything to use the same [TS]

01:08:36   external design probably well that I was [TS]

01:08:39   gonna say they get to use the same visa [TS]

01:08:40   mounts but they did change that part of [TS]

01:08:42   the case so I don't know it's still [TS]

01:08:43   slightly mysterious to me but anyway [TS]

01:08:45   that from as far as we can tell you take [TS]

01:08:48   those same parts and put them in an ugly [TS]

01:08:51   boxy PC and you can get them all to run [TS]

01:08:54   at fast [TS]

01:08:54   speeds or use hi urban parts yeah I mean [TS]

01:08:57   the the GPU I honestly I I don't have [TS]

01:09:00   any qualifications to talk about GPUs so [TS]

01:09:02   I didn't ask really anything about them [TS]

01:09:04   because I don't know any much GPUs but [TS]

01:09:06   on the cpu part as a guru points out a [TS]

01:09:09   lot like Apple doesn't usually lie like [TS]

01:09:12   you know they'll spin things a certain [TS]

01:09:14   way if they want to but they don't [TS]

01:09:15   usually outright lie like usually if [TS]

01:09:17   they tell you a straight out answer that [TS]

01:09:19   is the truth so and in this case like [TS]

01:09:22   they were very clear that like they [TS]

01:09:24   didn't need to change the case and and [TS]

01:09:26   there's some thermal stuff that that [TS]

01:09:28   I'll get to in a few minutes that that I [TS]

01:09:29   think probably supports that theory if [TS]

01:09:32   it ends up being you know panning out [TS]

01:09:33   that way on the subject of the CPU down [TS]

01:09:37   clocking so I did some research before [TS]

01:09:39   the call and I discovered that it's only [TS]

01:09:41   the eight and ten core that are down [TS]

01:09:43   clocked from there like retail speeds [TS]

01:09:45   from the retail parts the the 14 and 18 [TS]

01:09:48   are identical they are all overrated at [TS]

01:09:50   the same TDP to the same heat capacity [TS]

01:09:53   of 140 watts they all are the same the [TS]

01:09:56   eight and ten core chips are special [TS]

01:09:59   chips that were made by Intel just for [TS]

01:10:01   apples OEM use here that's why they even [TS]

01:10:04   have different model numbers they they [TS]

01:10:05   have a B on the end and they're like [TS]

01:10:06   slightly different numbers than their [TS]

01:10:07   counterparts if you look at all into the [TS]

01:10:09   Wikipedia table that lists all this all [TS]

01:10:11   this guy like Zeon's so you can see like [TS]

01:10:13   there these are special chips that are [TS]

01:10:15   only used in you know by Apple and only [TS]

01:10:18   so far only in the iMac Pro and their [TS]

01:10:20   answer to that was basically like you [TS]

01:10:22   know you know they are they are the [TS]

01:10:23   custom part from Intel and that's just [TS]

01:10:25   how the how the clock speeds bend out [TS]

01:10:27   for these chips one of the things they [TS]

01:10:29   wanted to make sure of is that all of [TS]

01:10:31   the processors that are available in the [TS]

01:10:34   iMac Pro have the same avx-512 [TS]

01:10:37   processing capacity these are the new [TS]

01:10:39   instructions that are I think new to [TS]

01:10:41   these chips or at least a new to the [TS]

01:10:42   current generation of Zeon's these are [TS]

01:10:46   super high high-end like vector [TS]

01:10:47   instructions for certain types of math [TS]

01:10:49   that can be very well optimized some of [TS]

01:10:51   the Zeon's that are in this family only [TS]

01:10:53   have one compute unit the high-end ones [TS]

01:10:56   have two Apple made sure that all of [TS]

01:10:58   theirs have to that being said I looked [TS]

01:11:02   at the specs for the corresponding parts [TS]

01:11:04   that are slightly higher clocked and [TS]

01:11:05   they have to also so I'm not entirely [TS]

01:11:07   sure [TS]

01:11:08   what that means right now that could be [TS]

01:11:10   it could have been a later change in the [TS]

01:11:11   in the release cycle for Intel where [TS]

01:11:14   they decided to put two on those or it [TS]

01:11:15   could have been referencing different [TS]

01:11:16   parts they could have used but didn't [TS]

01:11:17   but the important thing that I got from [TS]

01:11:20   the call is that they didn't see see [TS]

01:11:22   this has an artificial lowering of the [TS]

01:11:24   clock speed this is just how they were [TS]

01:11:25   bent out for their custom part and they [TS]

01:11:27   made sure their custom parts all had the [TS]

01:11:29   same avx-512 dual processing units so [TS]

01:11:33   let's custom about them besides the [TS]

01:11:35   besides the AVX stuff I don't know I can [TS]

01:11:38   ask them I mean that you know they [TS]

01:11:39   they're friendly they'll probably answer [TS]

01:11:41   an email if I ask them so I think our [TS]

01:11:45   concerns about the thermals are probably [TS]

01:11:47   unwarranted because what I heard from [TS]

01:11:50   them which confirms what I heard from [TS]

01:11:52   other people who were at their demos or [TS]

01:11:54   who've had a review units so far it [TS]

01:11:57   sounds like there is a lot of thermal [TS]

01:11:59   Headroom they had certain demos at these [TS]

01:12:03   events that were running on loops all [TS]

01:12:05   day long that were stressing all the CPU [TS]

01:12:07   cores at like 60% or higher all the time [TS]

01:12:09   and that you couldn't even really hear [TS]

01:12:11   the fan and and what I was told [TS]

01:12:14   it basically is that the way the [TS]

01:12:16   thermals work out in this generation [TS]

01:12:18   that you can hammer the CPU is pretty [TS]

01:12:22   hard and you probably won't hear the fan [TS]

01:12:24   spin up you will pretty much only hear [TS]

01:12:26   it get loud if you're hammering the CPUs [TS]

01:12:28   and the GPUs and actually and this [TS]

01:12:31   actually is plausible to me because this [TS]

01:12:33   is actually not that different from how [TS]

01:12:34   the sky like laptops work this is the [TS]

01:12:36   sky like and I and what is the ivy [TS]

01:12:38   bridge but I already forgot to forget so [TS]

01:12:41   the current laptop generation compared [TS]

01:12:43   to the the old one that I'm still [TS]

01:12:44   holding on to is way quieter under CPU [TS]

01:12:47   load it doesn't spin up for nearly as [TS]

01:12:49   you know as long you know and and you [TS]

01:12:52   know it cools down much faster and [TS]

01:12:53   everything else so given that these are [TS]

01:12:55   the Zeon's from the skylake family that [TS]

01:12:56   actually I think makes sense that's [TS]

01:12:59   believable to me and it does seem like [TS]

01:13:02   they've designed this with a lot of [TS]

01:13:03   thermal Headroom so for the moment [TS]

01:13:07   having not used one of these yet having [TS]

01:13:08   our own one of these yet it does sound [TS]

01:13:11   like they are not concerned about [TS]

01:13:13   thermals and all the demo units and all [TS]

01:13:15   the review units out there so far have [TS]

01:13:17   shown pretty awesome thermal thermal and [TS]

01:13:18   noise performance so so far it seems [TS]

01:13:21   tentatively [TS]

01:13:22   like it might be pretty awesome on the [TS]

01:13:23   thermal and heat front and therefore [TS]

01:13:25   that also supports their position that [TS]

01:13:28   these aren't really down clocked for [TS]

01:13:30   meaningful performance reasons well you [TS]

01:13:32   keep excluding the GPU because you [TS]

01:13:33   didn't want to talk about but it's [TS]

01:13:34   happen or than half of the heat in here [TS]

01:13:37   and certainly half of the equation like [TS]

01:13:39   if the if this info from is is just from [TS]

01:13:42   a listener because I don't know though [TS]

01:13:43   the clock speeds of this Jeep unit stuff [TS]

01:13:44   but if if these GPUs really are at 83% [TS]

01:13:46   of the clock speed that if you were to [TS]

01:13:48   buy the same card and put it in a PC and [TS]

01:13:51   get the fastest one like why would you [TS]

01:13:53   choose to do that if you got the thermal [TS]

01:13:54   Headroom it doesn't you know especially [TS]

01:13:57   if it's like literally the same part [TS]

01:13:58   down clock to not just been differently [TS]

01:14:00   for pricing thing like I don't quite [TS]

01:14:02   understand how that math works out so it [TS]

01:14:05   sounds like for the CPU we have some [TS]

01:14:07   good information on it and certainly [TS]

01:14:09   you've been doing things the stress of [TS]

01:14:10   CPU and it seems like there's plenty of [TS]

01:14:11   room but kind of like in the trashcan if [TS]

01:14:13   you happen to do something that uses [TS]

01:14:15   them both at once what does that do to [TS]

01:14:17   things like you know why the explanation [TS]

01:14:20   for why the the CPUs are down clock like [TS]

01:14:22   oh that's just how they bend out and [TS]

01:14:23   maybe they had to be slower clocked [TS]

01:14:25   because they've got the two AVX units [TS]

01:14:27   and the normal ones that size didn't [TS]

01:14:29   that kind of make some kind of sense [TS]

01:14:30   right but why on the other side of the [TS]

01:14:33   case where the other fan is blowing into [TS]

01:14:36   you know what it likes when both hands [TS]

01:14:37   are rolling through the same heatsink [TS]

01:14:38   but anyway on the other side of the case [TS]

01:14:39   where the GPU is why if that if that [TS]

01:14:43   stuff actually has clocked down and by [TS]

01:14:44   the way if you're if you know the exact [TS]

01:14:46   clock speeds of like the the GPUs CPU [TS]

01:14:49   and memory buses please send it to the [TS]

01:14:51   show like that doesn't match up with the [TS]

01:14:55   idea that there's plenty of thermal [TS]

01:14:57   Headroom because especially like on the [TS]

01:14:59   high end part why wouldn't you run those [TS]

01:15:01   that they're full speed yeah and [TS]

01:15:03   honestly I again I just I don't know [TS]

01:15:04   whether they're whether from at full [TS]

01:15:06   speed or not I I will say they're like [TS]

01:15:08   you know they didn't nothing they said [TS]

01:15:10   indicated that it couldn't handle [TS]

01:15:11   stressing both the CPU and GPU just that [TS]

01:15:14   you'd be more likely to hear it yeah I [TS]

01:15:16   don't know I would imagine the demos [TS]

01:15:17   that they should actually did stress [TS]

01:15:18   both of them you know we haven't been [TS]

01:15:20   there for the demos but I think the [TS]

01:15:21   demos probably did stress both the GPU [TS]

01:15:23   and the CPU so maybe those are a good [TS]

01:15:24   example and you know and maybe again [TS]

01:15:26   they traded the quiet for like look if [TS]

01:15:28   we if we clock this it at 83% of max [TS]

01:15:31   speed we can just be quiet all the time [TS]

01:15:32   them [TS]

01:15:33   or Wyden isn't that a better pro [TS]

01:15:34   experience then allowing it to get noisy [TS]

01:15:37   you know for this particular case [TS]

01:15:39   because maybe some people are using [TS]

01:15:41   applications that are stressing both of [TS]

01:15:42   them all the time and it's not a great [TS]

01:15:44   experience for the pro Mac whose fans [TS]

01:15:47   you can't escape by putting it under the [TS]

01:15:48   desk to be noisy like I can I can come [TS]

01:15:51   up with all sorts of reasons why they [TS]

01:15:52   can explain this because again this is [TS]

01:15:53   the the compact pearl machine it's not [TS]

01:15:56   it's not the Mac Pro right side Adam I [TS]

01:15:59   don't know which those of those [TS]

01:16:02   explanations that I could come up on on [TS]

01:16:04   my own is the right one if any you know [TS]

01:16:07   and maybe III think what you know what [TS]

01:16:09   you said about kind of like hitting like [TS]

01:16:10   a constant load minimum heat performance [TS]

01:16:13   kind of thing that might be related to [TS]

01:16:15   the way the CPUs are clocked because it [TS]

01:16:18   I think it says something that these all [TS]

01:16:20   have the same TDP so like when driven [TS]

01:16:22   fully like at maximum all the core [TS]

01:16:25   stressed they will all cap out at the [TS]

01:16:27   same heat output at all the core counts [TS]

01:16:30   however only the bottom two chips had [TS]

01:16:33   their base clocks reduced from from the [TS]

01:16:36   Intel retail parts so maybe it really is [TS]

01:16:38   like a heat and noise thing because the [TS]

01:16:40   way turbo boost works you know that with [TS]

01:16:42   all the all modern Intel chips like if [TS]

01:16:44   it has thermal Headroom it will increase [TS]

01:16:47   its its clock speed until it hits a [TS]

01:16:50   certain maximum that it won't go past or [TS]

01:16:51   until it starts getting too hot or until [TS]

01:16:54   certain until like more cores get [TS]

01:16:56   engaged and then it's just it starts to [TS]

01:16:57   reduce the overall sealing on them so [TS]

01:16:59   that keeps below that threshold but it [TS]

01:17:01   doesn't ever go below the base speed and [TS]

01:17:04   what the and and the turbo clock is [TS]

01:17:06   reduced went on those two that they've [TS]

01:17:08   modified the eight and ten core they did [TS]

01:17:10   reduce the turbo boost max speed as well [TS]

01:17:12   so I don't know what that means in this [TS]

01:17:14   in this theory but by reducing the base [TS]

01:17:17   clock it's still gonna turbo up a lot [TS]

01:17:19   when it's in use but it's gonna run at [TS]

01:17:22   the reduced base clock speed when it's [TS]

01:17:24   not doing heavy lifting and so maybe [TS]

01:17:27   that is primarily there for you know [TS]

01:17:31   lower noise and heat when it's most of [TS]

01:17:34   the time doing pretty light work [TS]

01:17:36   so really all of our well maybe not all [TS]

01:17:40   but a lot of our qualms from last [TS]

01:17:42   episode may be a little premature yeah I [TS]

01:17:45   mean yeah the answer really is we don't [TS]

01:17:46   really [TS]

01:17:47   no yet until until we really get these [TS]

01:17:49   machines until I get this machine but [TS]

01:17:53   although well I'll get to that in a [TS]

01:17:55   minute but uh until I really get these [TS]

01:17:57   machines we really can't be incredibly [TS]

01:17:59   sure about any of these things [TS]

01:18:00   I am hopeful now with you know after [TS]

01:18:03   having this call and also having you [TS]

01:18:05   know heard from the reviewers and the [TS]

01:18:07   people who were at these events it [TS]

01:18:09   doesn't sound like there's reason to be [TS]

01:18:10   concerned about the thermals yet and [TS]

01:18:12   that's pretty promising I I'm very happy [TS]

01:18:15   to hear that because that was my big [TS]

01:18:16   concern going into this it seems like [TS]

01:18:18   there's a lot of headroom and that they [TS]

01:18:20   didn't need to make the case bigger and [TS]

01:18:23   make it full of holes like what john [TS]

01:18:24   wanted so we'll see if that if that [TS]

01:18:26   actually pans out but III think it's [TS]

01:18:28   plausible I asked a few more things kind [TS]

01:18:32   of like side notes here on the t2 one [TS]

01:18:35   thing I thought was very interesting is [TS]

01:18:36   that it is indeed the SSD controller [TS]

01:18:39   like it is the disk controller and in [TS]

01:18:42   all of the configurations not just the [TS]

01:18:45   four terabyte one it uses dual SSD [TS]

01:18:48   modules and I use them parallel for [TS]

01:18:50   performance and so even if the fight [TS]

01:18:52   even if you get the terabyte that's just [TS]

01:18:54   using two 512 and with the t2 [TS]

01:18:57   controlling it you know that it isn't it [TS]

01:19:00   isn't abstracted to the OS as to disks [TS]

01:19:02   the way if you just plug in like a two [TS]

01:19:03   disk enclosure without any kind of raid [TS]

01:19:04   functionality it shows it but to this it [TS]

01:19:06   isn't like that it shows up as one disk [TS]

01:19:08   the controller shows it as one device [TS]

01:19:10   but behind the scenes it is actually [TS]

01:19:12   using two in parallel it's one of the [TS]

01:19:14   reasons why they're so freaking fast [TS]

01:19:15   we got anonymous feedback about that by [TS]

01:19:18   the way about the dual module thing and [TS]

01:19:20   like I think it just what it boils down [TS]

01:19:21   to is like you just do the benchmark [TS]

01:19:23   look at the performance it's like three [TS]

01:19:24   gigabytes per second read and write [TS]

01:19:25   roughly it's like it's a little bit less [TS]

01:19:27   for right right so the debate about [TS]

01:19:30   single versus dual the feedback we got [TS]

01:19:32   is that it's not actually a dual module [TS]

01:19:33   it's just one module that's split into [TS]

01:19:35   two bits of silicon but the bottom line [TS]

01:19:36   is that what is it like for PCI Express [TS]

01:19:39   Lanes going to this controller yes like [TS]

01:19:41   you you get the results you get and you [TS]

01:19:44   know what whether it's because they're [TS]

01:19:45   dual or it's just one good they could [TS]

01:19:47   have put it on a single chip of four [TS]

01:19:49   different packaging reasons is that they [TS]

01:19:51   are giving you the PCI Express Lanes to [TS]

01:19:53   get maximum performance out of the SSDs [TS]

01:19:55   and the performance is [TS]

01:19:56   better than any other mac essentially [TS]

01:19:58   and did you did you ask them about the [TS]

01:20:01   encryption stuff as well a little bit [TS]

01:20:02   yeah I mean I didn't have a lot of [TS]

01:20:04   question on it because I didn't know [TS]

01:20:05   enough to ask really about but yeah it [TS]

01:20:08   is certainly do it's doing all the [TS]

01:20:09   encryption in hardware like in the t2 so [TS]

01:20:12   there so any so there's two different [TS]

01:20:14   types of encryption going on here [TS]

01:20:16   there's the hardware encryption kind of [TS]

01:20:17   like what iOS devices have where like [TS]

01:20:19   the actual data on the flash is [TS]

01:20:21   encrypted even if you're not using File [TS]

01:20:23   Vault it is encrypted and if you take [TS]

01:20:26   that SSD stick or whatever it is out of [TS]

01:20:29   the iMac Pro and put it in some kind of [TS]

01:20:31   enclosure or another I Mac Pro to try to [TS]

01:20:33   read it you won't be able to because the [TS]

01:20:35   key to decrypt it is you know secure [TS]

01:20:38   Enclave style stored on that t2 the [TS]

01:20:40   reading of the flash is tied to that [TS]

01:20:42   hardware so the only way to read the [TS]

01:20:45   data on the flash is if you can get that [TS]

01:20:47   computer to read it for you if you do [TS]

01:20:49   things like set a firmware password or [TS]

01:20:50   something obviously that's going to [TS]

01:20:51   provide pretty good security on that so [TS]

01:20:53   like you so we can't boot other things I [TS]

01:20:54   actually I didn't ask too much about [TS]

01:20:56   like today like what's different now [TS]

01:20:59   with this with the new secure boot stuff [TS]

01:21:01   with things like firmware passwords and [TS]

01:21:02   boot options and whether it will boot [TS]

01:21:04   external media and stuff like that I [TS]

01:21:07   know a lot of that has changed mostly [TS]

01:21:09   for the better it may be entirely for [TS]

01:21:10   the better so I I can't really talk [TS]

01:21:12   about VAX I don't know enough about it [TS]

01:21:14   yet so there's that level of encryption [TS]

01:21:16   and you can also use file vault on top [TS]

01:21:19   of that and if you do use File Vault its [TS]

01:21:22   encryption instructions are now hardware [TS]

01:21:25   accelerated so that's not even running [TS]

01:21:27   on the xeon it's running on the t - it's [TS]

01:21:29   not taxing xeon at all alright hardware [TS]

01:21:32   accelerated you got my you got my pet [TS]

01:21:33   peeve again oh now it's hardware [TS]

01:21:35   accelerated instead of being executed in [TS]

01:21:37   hardware it'll be executed on hardware [TS]

01:21:40   but there that you got the important [TS]

01:21:42   point is that you don't have to make the [TS]

01:21:44   cpu won't be involved in this so most [TS]

01:21:46   people are speculating like you know [TS]

01:21:48   that you know what performance hit do [TS]

01:21:50   you get for using encryption with HFS+ [TS]

01:21:53   or a BFS and you could measure it and [TS]

01:21:55   you know apples like it's really small [TS]

01:21:56   or whatever I think some testing has [TS]

01:21:58   shown that the hit might actually be [TS]

01:21:59   more with a PFS than it was with a [TS]

01:22:01   better spot whether it's because a [TS]

01:22:03   better encryption or whatever [TS]

01:22:05   theoretically well first of all you know [TS]

01:22:08   assuredly this [TS]

01:22:10   we'll give you more CPU because you CPU [TS]

01:22:13   won't be doing any encryption stuff none [TS]

01:22:15   zero it'll all be done by the t2 which [TS]

01:22:17   is great like I like the idea of these [TS]

01:22:18   little custom coprocessors handling this [TS]

01:22:20   type of this very specific function [TS]

01:22:21   surely they have instructions just for [TS]

01:22:22   its great the second possibility that [TS]

01:22:25   some will have the benchmark to find out [TS]

01:22:26   is okay your CPU is freed up does the T [TS]

01:22:29   to do that encryption job faster than [TS]

01:22:32   the Xeon used to because you know it's [TS]

01:22:33   dedicated type of thing if it does that [TS]

01:22:36   means there would be less of a [TS]

01:22:37   performance hit for enabling FileVault [TS]

01:22:39   on an iMac Pro with the t2 and that's [TS]

01:22:41   something we'll have to benchmark I mean [TS]

01:22:44   I'm guessing there's probably some kind [TS]

01:22:46   of smart implementation detail where cuz [TS]

01:22:48   like it's already in the t20 as the disk [TS]

01:22:52   and controller you know and doing that [TS]

01:22:54   hardware encryption the way OS devices [TS]

01:22:56   do it's already encrypting everything in [TS]

01:22:59   and out at full speed even when firewall [TS]

01:23:01   it's not on [TS]

01:23:02   so I'm guessing by using File Vault [TS]

01:23:06   you're probably just like having another [TS]

01:23:08   mode of maybe of that same encryption or [TS]

01:23:10   having the keys combine in some way or [TS]

01:23:12   something like that I don't know the [TS]

01:23:14   details enough to say but it could be [TS]

01:23:15   and if that's the case there will be [TS]

01:23:16   zero speed hit because like it's doing [TS]

01:23:18   it whether you have File Vault on or not [TS]

01:23:19   and so it's you know like this this [TS]

01:23:21   should be borne out by the benchmarks [TS]

01:23:23   but but it's it's an intriguing [TS]

01:23:24   possibility this brings me back to the [TS]

01:23:25   good old days of film to try media [TS]

01:23:28   accelerator you guys don't remember that [TS]

01:23:30   but know what they're there I have it [TS]

01:23:32   very even in the early days of Mac I was [TS]

01:23:33   too much maybe you were you were around [TS]

01:23:35   for and remember the idea of Apple [TS]

01:23:38   adding chips to Mac's [TS]

01:23:40   to make them faster in basically magical [TS]

01:23:43   ways it's like yeah you can just take a [TS]

01:23:44   CPU and some RAM and a motherboard and [TS]

01:23:47   throw them together but the Apple [TS]

01:23:49   special sauce is they'll play special [TS]

01:23:50   magic chips on there that will make your [TS]

01:23:51   Mac better this is the actual reality of [TS]

01:23:54   the t2 chip and threw down there and I [TS]

01:23:58   mean even on Apple's on page like the [TS]

01:23:59   list of stuff this thing does in [TS]

01:24:01   addition to what we listed is image [TS]

01:24:03   signal processing for the front-facing [TS]

01:24:04   camera audio controller of course the [TS]

01:24:08   secure Enclave the the encryption oh [TS]

01:24:11   actually this is right from Apple's [TS]

01:24:13   marketing page the data in your SSD is [TS]

01:24:15   encrypted using dedicated AES Hardware [TS]

01:24:16   with no effect on the SSDs performance [TS]

01:24:18   it's not clear whether they're talking [TS]

01:24:19   about file vault or the other [TS]

01:24:20   thing but yeah they're like they're [TS]

01:24:23   actually doing something that they had [TS]

01:24:25   very rarely done in the past which is [TS]

01:24:26   throw throwing a chip the chip that [TS]

01:24:29   nobody else has to their computer [TS]

01:24:31   specifically to make them perform better [TS]

01:24:32   and who doesn't like that [TS]

01:24:33   that is a that is a great Pro feature [TS]

01:24:35   and if it lets them like you know these [TS]

01:24:38   are things you should be able to measure [TS]

01:24:39   if it lets them go faster on benchmarks [TS]

01:24:43   because the CPU is not involved in all [TS]

01:24:45   in any of the encryption on the disk [TS]

01:24:46   stuff that's that's a clean win and if [TS]

01:24:49   the T 2 as is rumored is heavily based [TS]

01:24:51   on an existing iPhone chip that's a [TS]

01:24:54   great reuse of IP like we already did [TS]

01:24:57   the work to design this chip for their [TS]

01:24:58   flagship product you can repurpose this [TS]

01:25:00   chip and throw it in with a combination [TS]

01:25:03   of a bunch of other stuff and maybe even [TS]

01:25:04   repurpose some software that you have to [TS]

01:25:06   do say image processing from the iPhone [TS]

01:25:08   or whatever you know and maybe disk [TS]

01:25:11   controller stuff I don't know how much [TS]

01:25:12   of that is shared with the iOS devices [TS]

01:25:14   that might be using a similar thing this [TS]

01:25:16   is a smart way to make a better faster [TS]

01:25:19   computer and I hope the Mac Pro has [TS]

01:25:21   something just like this even though you [TS]

01:25:22   know presumably doesn't have a front [TS]

01:25:24   facing camera or whatever and I think [TS]

01:25:26   you know one of the things we said when [TS]

01:25:27   when the touch bar was launched was you [TS]

01:25:30   know this actually does show like they [TS]

01:25:31   are putting significant engineering [TS]

01:25:33   resources into the Mac still you know [TS]

01:25:35   not as much as we would like sometimes [TS]

01:25:36   but clearly like it isn't just sitting [TS]

01:25:39   around being completely neglected like [TS]

01:25:41   this wasn't this wasn't like a half [TS]

01:25:42   assed [TS]

01:25:42   update this was like a significant [TS]

01:25:44   engineering effort and with with [TS]

01:25:47   significant new things being put into it [TS]

01:25:49   not just like a stock into a motherboard [TS]

01:25:50   and in you know stock parts so give them [TS]

01:25:53   you know full credit where credit is due [TS]

01:25:55   like this is major engineering we're [TS]

01:25:57   going into the Mac and for a long time [TS]

01:25:59   it seemed like that wasn't happening so [TS]

01:26:00   this is this is a nice you know change [TS]

01:26:03   of the narrative and it's good to see [TS]

01:26:05   results what one aspect of this [TS]

01:26:08   integration by the way of like getting [TS]

01:26:09   to the SSD specifically affect great [TS]

01:26:12   performance the encryption addressed for [TS]

01:26:14   free the secure Enclave this is from our [TS]

01:26:18   anonymous source again as president says [TS]

01:26:22   they feel quite confident stating there [TS]

01:26:23   will never be a third party SSD upgrade [TS]

01:26:25   for a t2 equipped a Mac because the [TS]

01:26:27   integration is so tight I mean maybe [TS]

01:26:29   it's tied down to being soldered in or [TS]

01:26:31   maybe it's tight just down to like [TS]

01:26:33   this is not something you can buy off [TS]

01:26:35   the shelf there's tight integration [TS]

01:26:36   between the storage and the controller [TS]

01:26:38   and the encryption and all that other [TS]

01:26:39   stuff going on there that it is a very [TS]

01:26:42   custom solution and that is very much [TS]

01:26:45   like iOS devices where no one considers [TS]

01:26:48   you know upgrading the storage you buy a [TS]

01:26:50   64 gig phone you're like oh I have to [TS]

01:26:52   mark it upgrade it to 128 no you won't [TS]

01:26:53   like because it's so integrated into [TS]

01:26:55   like everything inside iPhone is from [TS]

01:26:58   has from day one been so tied up with [TS]

01:27:00   the whole security environment of phones [TS]

01:27:02   and the t2 brings the Mac closer to that [TS]

01:27:06   ideal in good ways and bad we haven't [TS]

01:27:07   gotten to the secure boot stuff yet but [TS]

01:27:09   like bringing closer to the ideal of a [TS]

01:27:11   phone of being more resilient to [TS]

01:27:15   Hardware attacks like this is the old [TS]

01:27:16   adage in the world of desktop and even [TS]

01:27:19   laptop computers is physical access [TS]

01:27:20   trumps all security even server's [TS]

01:27:22   physical access trumps all security if [TS]

01:27:23   you are physically there with the [TS]

01:27:25   hardware it doesn't really matter what [TS]

01:27:26   you've done security wise because if [TS]

01:27:28   you're physically there there are so [TS]

01:27:29   many things that you can do to to own [TS]

01:27:32   that machine right with phones the whole [TS]

01:27:36   idea has been to make them resilient to [TS]

01:27:38   that old adage does physical access [TS]

01:27:40   Trump's security here you go here's my [TS]

01:27:41   phone if Apple has done a good job it [TS]

01:27:43   should be really hard for you to get [TS]

01:27:44   anything out of it like anything at all [TS]

01:27:46   aside from you maybe like freezing the [TS]

01:27:49   thing liquid nitrogen and extracting the [TS]

01:27:50   data from RAM but even then it might be [TS]

01:27:52   encrypted like you know so anyway the t2 [TS]

01:27:55   and the associated secure boot machine [TS]

01:27:57   you're insecure and clad and all that [TS]

01:27:58   stuff are an attempt to bring the Mac [TS]

01:28:01   more into that direction for for good [TS]

01:28:04   and bad mostly good in terms of security [TS]

01:28:07   but bad in terms of us as computer [TS]

01:28:12   enthusiasts who occasionally screw up on [TS]

01:28:13   their our computers have gotten used to [TS]

01:28:16   the idea that you know physical access [TS]

01:28:18   Trump's all security is good for us when [TS]

01:28:20   we screw up when we mess up our own [TS]

01:28:22   computers say well it's all messed up [TS]

01:28:24   but because I'm physically here in front [TS]

01:28:25   of the computer I'm gonna plug in this [TS]

01:28:27   other driving boot from it or you know [TS]

01:28:29   I'm gonna go in Target disc mode and [TS]

01:28:30   just pull the data off or whatever like [TS]

01:28:32   you're even though if hosed my OS [TS]

01:28:33   install by messing with the boot loader [TS]

01:28:35   or some girl like there's always [TS]

01:28:35   something we can do to save ourselves [TS]

01:28:37   not so much with an iPhone and maybe not [TS]

01:28:41   so much with one of these iMac pros [TS]

01:28:43   either depending on how you have [TS]

01:28:44   configured yeah and this was one of the [TS]

01:28:46   reasons why like I would strongly advise [TS]

01:28:49   similar to the RAM argument like don't [TS]

01:28:52   assume you're gonna be able to upgrade [TS]

01:28:53   these later you know he said like that [TS]

01:28:55   we know we heard from their anonymous [TS]

01:28:56   tip they don't they don't think that [TS]

01:28:57   it's likely that we're gonna have [TS]

01:28:59   upgradable SSDs from third parties I [TS]

01:29:02   didn't ask this during the call so I [TS]

01:29:04   don't I haven't I don't have any kind of [TS]

01:29:05   official statement on this but I would I [TS]

01:29:08   would guess the same thing it seems very [TS]

01:29:10   likely that's gonna be the case that it [TS]

01:29:12   I don't think you're gonna see a third [TS]

01:29:14   party t2 SSD modules and you know as we [TS]

01:29:18   briefly discussed last week I don't [TS]

01:29:20   think that's that different from how it [TS]

01:29:21   is now like though the last few [TS]

01:29:23   generations of Mac's that we've had you [TS]

01:29:26   haven't had third-party SSD modules [TS]

01:29:29   usually at all or if they do come they [TS]

01:29:31   come like years after the machine is [TS]

01:29:33   launched and they're usually very [TS]

01:29:35   expensive because they're like custom [TS]

01:29:37   stuff from OWCA or something like that [TS]

01:29:38   so like if you can at all [TS]

01:29:41   order your computer with the disk base [TS]

01:29:43   you need up front do it and and [TS]

01:29:45   otherwise consider external expansion [TS]

01:29:47   because internal upgrades down the road [TS]

01:29:50   are just getting less and less likely to [TS]

01:29:52   be possible or affordable so the secure [TS]

01:29:55   boot stuff cable did a bunch of tweets [TS]

01:29:57   about it because he got one too right do [TS]

01:29:59   you know that he's in the developer who [TS]

01:30:00   got a review unit oh yeah that's right [TS]

01:30:02   he didn't just get a call he actually [TS]

01:30:03   kind of computer which is cool so he did [TS]

01:30:05   a bunch of tweets about it one of them [TS]

01:30:06   was a screenshot of a new I guess it's [TS]

01:30:09   an app called startup security utility [TS]

01:30:12   and it's where you can enable and [TS]

01:30:14   disable the firmware password but it [TS]

01:30:15   also has two little sets of radio [TS]

01:30:17   buttons one called secure boot and the [TS]

01:30:19   options are full security which I don't [TS]

01:30:22   know what the defaults are but the full [TS]

01:30:23   security ensures that only the latest [TS]

01:30:25   and most secure software can be run and [TS]

01:30:27   this mode requires a network connection [TS]

01:30:28   that software installation time I'm a [TS]

01:30:30   little bit confused about the details of [TS]

01:30:32   that because ensures that only the [TS]

01:30:34   latest and most secure software or does [TS]

01:30:35   that mean like if it's not the latest [TS]

01:30:36   software it won't boot it but it will [TS]

01:30:37   force you to do an update before leaving [TS]

01:30:39   boot I don't know anyway medium is a [TS]

01:30:41   carry requires verifiable software out [TS]

01:30:43   of boot but not the latest software so [TS]

01:30:45   you can just keep using your old OS and [TS]

01:30:46   no security does not enforce any [TS]

01:30:49   requirement so all of our max now fall [TS]

01:30:51   under the category as far as secure boot [TS]

01:30:53   is concerned of no security like if the [TS]

01:30:57   if [TS]

01:30:58   there's an interesting name for what [TS]

01:30:59   Apple thinks of this thing if you plug [TS]

01:31:01   in a drive that has an OS that can boot [TS]

01:31:03   your machine it will boot right it [TS]

01:31:05   doesn't do any verification that that [TS]

01:31:07   operating system is like completely [TS]

01:31:08   valid and hasn't been rooted and it sure [TS]

01:31:10   doesn't care if it's the latest version [TS]

01:31:11   you know you can whatever like my 2008 [TS]

01:31:14   Mac Pro what did it ship with it a ship [TS]

01:31:17   with Snow Leopard maybe before that [TS]

01:31:19   maybe it shipped with Leopard [TS]

01:31:20   yeah I think it shipped with Leopard [TS]

01:31:21   it'll boot Leopard right now it doesn't [TS]

01:31:23   care that Leopard is ancient like so [TS]

01:31:25   that's what Apple considers no security [TS]

01:31:26   and there's also an option for external [TS]

01:31:28   boot and you can select disallow booting [TS]

01:31:31   from external media which is pretty [TS]

01:31:33   straightforward it's like oh you messed [TS]

01:31:35   up your computer you want to boot from [TS]

01:31:36   another disk to try to save it [TS]

01:31:38   nope not if you have this thing set or [TS]

01:31:40   the option to allow booting from [TS]

01:31:41   external me so a lot of the t2 stuff is [TS]

01:31:44   like you know you can make your iMac [TS]

01:31:46   much more like an iPhone or if you [TS]

01:31:49   change these settings it can just be [TS]

01:31:51   like a normal Mac has always been no [TS]

01:31:52   it's clear that direction Apple wants [TS]

01:31:54   you to go in the top items and all these [TS]

01:31:56   radio buttons are the the most secure [TS]

01:31:58   ones but there's an interesting techno [TS]

01:32:02   to help article that I'll put a link to [TS]

01:32:04   that like what do you do if you have [TS]

01:32:06   your iMac Pro set to the most secure [TS]

01:32:09   settings and you screw it up the [TS]

01:32:11   recovery procedure kind of like the [TS]

01:32:13   recovery procedure when you like screw [TS]

01:32:15   up your phone and you know to sort of go [TS]

01:32:17   into DFU mode or whatever the recovery [TS]

01:32:18   procedure for your iMac pro requires you [TS]

01:32:21   to have another Mac Pro and if you think [TS]

01:32:27   about it's like look you know you always [TS]

01:32:29   need some other thing to plug your thing [TS]

01:32:31   into like when you put your phone in DFU [TS]

01:32:33   mode if you don't literally have any [TS]

01:32:34   other hardware it just sits there [TS]

01:32:36   staring at you it's nothing you need [TS]

01:32:38   some other device to connect to do in [TS]

01:32:40   the case of the Mac Pro what you need to [TS]

01:32:41   connect to do it would be kind of neat [TS]

01:32:42   of you connected to an iPhone to recover [TS]

01:32:44   it like it would download from the [TS]

01:32:45   internet the OS update and funnel it [TS]

01:32:47   through but anyway this is the brave new [TS]

01:32:49   world security the whole point of all [TS]

01:32:51   the secure boot software so that your [TS]

01:32:54   computer could verify that it is running [TS]

01:32:56   like you know clean software software [TS]

01:33:00   the you know this sort of chain of trust [TS]

01:33:02   that each thing in the chain verifies [TS]

01:33:03   the next thing what was it at cable had [TS]

01:33:05   a good tweet about it [TS]

01:33:07   the new chip means that storage [TS]

01:33:09   encryption keys pass from the secure [TS]

01:33:10   Enclave to the [TS]

01:33:12   our encryption engine unship yukine [TS]

01:33:13   never leaves the chip and allows the [TS]

01:33:15   hardware verification of the OS the [TS]

01:33:16   kernel the bootloader firmware etc and [TS]

01:33:18   each each component in turn verifies the [TS]

01:33:21   neck so it's a chain of trust starting [TS]

01:33:23   with the secure Enclave essentially so [TS]

01:33:25   that each thing each thing that runs [TS]

01:33:29   next knows that it is being kicked off [TS]

01:33:31   from something that is secure and it's [TS]

01:33:33   the way the phone security works and [TS]

01:33:34   it's the way this security works and [TS]

01:33:35   it's you know it's not like it's [TS]

01:33:37   foolproof [TS]

01:33:38   like any security thing if there's the [TS]

01:33:39   flaw it can be exploited to get in [TS]

01:33:41   that's how jailbreak Savoy's work like [TS]

01:33:43   you know it's not impenetrable but it is [TS]

01:33:45   a far cry from the world of all the [TS]

01:33:46   Mac's that we're sitting in front of now [TS]

01:33:48   which is like la dee da ba boot whatever [TS]

01:33:50   the heck you give them they have no idea [TS]

01:33:51   if your operating system has been you [TS]

01:33:53   know root kitted or whatever they have [TS]

01:33:56   no idea how new it is when they're [TS]

01:33:58   booting and this iMac changes all that I [TS]

01:34:01   wonder a little bit like you know one of [TS]

01:34:04   the problems that I have with High [TS]

01:34:05   Sierra is that it's it's pretty buggy [TS]

01:34:07   still but yet Apple is really pushing it [TS]

01:34:09   heavily through like the auto-update [TS]

01:34:10   mechanism and stuff like that the the [TS]

01:34:13   idea that like you know to have the the [TS]

01:34:15   best security you should be running the [TS]

01:34:17   latest OS is often true but not always [TS]

01:34:20   true and sometimes we're running the [TS]

01:34:22   latest OS has other downsides like [TS]

01:34:24   certain things that are that are still [TS]

01:34:26   broken or two different or that break [TS]

01:34:28   your workflow like you know dropping [TS]

01:34:29   support for some old app that you use [TS]

01:34:30   something like that I wonder like how [TS]

01:34:32   this mechanism will be useful in [TS]

01:34:34   practice if you want to still use the [TS]

01:34:37   old OS for a while because the new one [TS]

01:34:39   isn't good enough yet or doesn't support [TS]

01:34:40   the things you need to support yet is [TS]

01:34:42   this going to force you to upgrade [TS]

01:34:43   unless you turn down your security to [TS]

01:34:45   the medium level I guess yeah you have [TS]

01:34:47   to change down to medium security which [TS]

01:34:49   you know it's like they're loaded terms [TS]

01:34:50   full versus medium but for exactly the [TS]

01:34:52   reasons you stated it's great that they [TS]

01:34:54   give you these options I think you don't [TS]

01:34:55   have to go to no security unlike for [TS]

01:34:57   example what is it [TS]

01:34:59   was the thing on the Mac called the ice [TS]

01:35:02   the thing that protects all your like [TS]

01:35:04   system files system integrity protection [TS]

01:35:06   s IP yeah there we go sip that you could [TS]

01:35:10   if you need that on or off and maybe [TS]

01:35:12   there's some develop remote that's kind [TS]

01:35:14   of in between you there but very often [TS]

01:35:15   it's like look to use this fancy piece [TS]

01:35:19   of software you have to disable system [TS]

01:35:22   integrity protection and even I who am [TS]

01:35:23   willing to hack there man [TS]

01:35:25   a little bit almost like ma'am really [TS]

01:35:27   makes me rethink whether I want a [TS]

01:35:29   completely disabled system integrity [TS]

01:35:30   Riggins I like the protection the [TS]

01:35:32   additional protection and it provides [TS]

01:35:35   additionally protection from myself [TS]

01:35:37   screwing up my own computer by modifying [TS]

01:35:39   system files which I you know I've done [TS]

01:35:41   in the past right so it makes me think [TS]

01:35:43   twice about doing having medium security [TS]

01:35:45   where it requires verifiable software at [TS]

01:35:47   a boot meaning that it verifies that [TS]

01:35:49   like this is these are legit copies of [TS]

01:35:51   everything the bootloader the kernel all [TS]

01:35:53   you know everything else but does not [TS]

01:35:55   require you to have the latest software [TS]

01:35:56   that's the mode that I think is most [TS]

01:35:59   appealing maybe all the time but [TS]

01:36:01   certainly when a new release comes out [TS]

01:36:02   because you like if the Machine [TS]

01:36:04   literally will refuse to boot until it [TS]

01:36:05   updates itself that is a behavior that I [TS]

01:36:08   think Pro customers will not appreciate [TS]

01:36:11   so again I have no idea what the default [TS]

01:36:13   is but remember you know if you get one [TS]

01:36:15   of these machines remember to use this [TS]

01:36:16   utility and pick the option that makes [TS]

01:36:18   the most sense for you I mean even if [TS]

01:36:22   only like if it refused to boot until it [TS]

01:36:23   had the latest and it literally had to [TS]

01:36:25   run the software update the High Sierra [TS]

01:36:26   for all you know that is like causing [TS]

01:36:28   the latest version of Adobe Creative [TS]

01:36:30   Suite not to launch right like you know [TS]

01:36:33   if you're Pro machine that you used to [TS]

01:36:35   do work every day you come in one [TS]

01:36:37   morning to try to do work and it's like [TS]

01:36:38   oh I won't even boot until I update [TS]

01:36:40   myself and then after it boots this [TS]

01:36:43   application that you use on this all day [TS]

01:36:45   doesn't launch anymore because it's not [TS]

01:36:46   yet compatible that's not a great [TS]

01:36:48   experience so medium security sounds [TS]

01:36:52   like a good compromise for most people [TS]

01:36:54   and disallow booting from external media [TS]

01:36:56   like are you an environment where a [TS]

01:36:58   physical security is actually that [TS]

01:37:00   important to you or do you want the [TS]

01:37:01   option of saving your own but if you [TS]

01:37:02   screw something up by plugging in an [TS]

01:37:04   external drive I feel like I would leave [TS]

01:37:05   that on allow booting from external [TS]

01:37:07   media but everyone's secured exposure [TS]

01:37:10   and environment is different maybe [TS]

01:37:11   you're working on the next Star Wars [TS]

01:37:14   movie and it's really important that if [TS]

01:37:16   someone breaks into the office they [TS]

01:37:18   would have a really difficult time [TS]

01:37:20   getting your computer to boot from their [TS]

01:37:22   external drive and target disk mode so [TS]

01:37:24   they could copy all your precious files [TS]

01:37:25   off of it [TS]

01:37:25   alright and then a couple other just [TS]

01:37:28   little tidbits that I asked about or a [TS]

01:37:30   little bits of information I've picked [TS]

01:37:31   up since then [TS]

01:37:32   the quick thing the PCI Express layout I [TS]

01:37:35   know this sounds really boring trust me [TS]

01:37:37   there's a reason I'm saying it [TS]

01:37:38   it has the GPU running on 16 lanes it [TS]

01:37:43   has two Thunderbolt controllers running [TS]

01:37:44   on four lanes each so eight total and [TS]

01:37:46   the 10 gig Ethernet port runs on four [TS]

01:37:48   lanes all those directions the CPU [TS]

01:37:50   everything else including the t2 is done [TS]

01:37:52   through the DMI which goes to what used [TS]

01:37:56   to be called the Southbridge I think I [TS]

01:37:58   don't know if Intel still calls it the [TS]

01:37:59   Southbridge anymore it's like the [TS]

01:38:01   controller on the chipset that controls [TS]

01:38:03   like USB and all sorts of other like you [TS]

01:38:06   know lower speed peripherals then like [TS]

01:38:09   the GPU the t2 is the largest bandwidth [TS]

01:38:14   consumer through that bus and the DMI [TS]

01:38:18   bus seems to have approximately the same [TS]

01:38:20   bandwidth as four PCI Express lanes and [TS]

01:38:23   you can see that in the in the [TS]

01:38:24   benchmarks of the SSD that basically the [TS]

01:38:27   that the SSD clearly can run with the [TS]

01:38:30   bandwidth of four PCI Express lanes so [TS]

01:38:32   that that does seem to be pretty good I [TS]

01:38:34   I didn't ask because I got this [TS]

01:38:36   information after the call so I didn't [TS]

01:38:38   ask why the t2 wasn't connected to one [TS]

01:38:41   of the CPU lanes directly because the [TS]

01:38:43   CPU has 48 lanes and by my account only [TS]

01:38:47   28 of them are being used or at least [TS]

01:38:49   only 28 that I can account for but the [TS]

01:38:51   reason I bring this up a lot of people [TS]

01:38:53   look at this machine and they wonder why [TS]

01:38:56   do we have to pay for Zeon's why can't a [TS]

01:38:58   Pullip a cheap Tower that I want that [TS]

01:39:01   has an i7 chip in it or whatever this is [TS]

01:39:03   one of the reasons I said like so the [TS]

01:39:05   the best i7 you can get in say the [TS]

01:39:08   regular iMac has 16 lanes from the CPU [TS]

01:39:12   total this is using 28 of them this [TS]

01:39:16   shows you like if you drop down to one [TS]

01:39:19   of the consumer CPUs you would be [TS]

01:39:22   required to cut throughput or if it's a [TS]

01:39:25   cut possible bandwidth on some of these [TS]

01:39:27   components and maybe you won't notice [TS]

01:39:29   like some people argue well you can cut [TS]

01:39:31   a GPU down to x8 down from x16 and it's [TS]

01:39:33   fine [TS]

01:39:34   well yeah maybe it's fine but is it the [TS]

01:39:36   best it can be like yeah it's getting [TS]

01:39:38   late to John's argument like is that the [TS]

01:39:40   best or is it fine so it is very clear [TS]

01:39:43   that like they are using the throughput [TS]

01:39:46   of the Xeon here and one of the reasons [TS]

01:39:48   I was thinking about this was kind of [TS]

01:39:50   trying to do some research on like [TS]

01:39:52   do they have enough free PCI Express [TS]

01:39:54   Lanes coming off the CPU in a in a [TS]

01:39:58   theoretical Mac Pro that they could [TS]

01:40:00   offer multiple card slots while also [TS]

01:40:03   supporting more than one GPU with an x16 [TS]

01:40:07   connectivity Lane and the answer appears [TS]

01:40:10   to be yes it appears to be they can [TS]

01:40:12   probably offer two x16 GPUs and still [TS]

01:40:17   have enough lanes for other stuff but [TS]

01:40:19   I'm not like I don't think they would [TS]

01:40:22   also offer additional PCI Express slots [TS]

01:40:26   beyond maybe just those two and all this [TS]

01:40:30   was you know theoretical trying to [TS]

01:40:31   educate myself to make better Mac Pro [TS]

01:40:33   predictions and then finally I asked if [TS]

01:40:35   they're still remember when the when the [TS]

01:40:37   5k iMac first launched at the time [TS]

01:40:40   Thunderbolt 2 was not powerful enough to [TS]

01:40:44   drive a 5k display at 60 Hertz it didn't [TS]

01:40:47   have enough bandwidth to drive a fico [TS]

01:40:49   displays at 60 Hertz and Apple made a [TS]

01:40:50   big deal but even during the [TS]

01:40:52   presentation pointing out they had [TS]

01:40:53   developed their own timing controller or [TS]

01:40:55   t-con and they had embedded that in the [TS]

01:40:57   iMac 2 to help drive the display by [TS]

01:41:00   basically multiplexing two streams [TS]

01:41:02   together I asked if they still do that [TS]

01:41:04   the answer yes so there's because I [TS]

01:41:07   figured like you know the now things are [TS]

01:41:08   faster maybe they wouldn't need that [TS]

01:41:10   anymore but no they still do it so [TS]

01:41:12   that's useful to somebody maybe and then [TS]

01:41:16   finally I asked if the Apple Care [TS]

01:41:19   pricing is a mistake because because [TS]

01:41:23   whether you so that you know one of the [TS]

01:41:25   little flukes about Apple Care pricing [TS]

01:41:28   is that book keeps flat pricing for a [TS]

01:41:30   product family so if you look at like a [TS]

01:41:31   MacBook Pro the price of Apple care for [TS]

01:41:35   a two thousand dollar configuration of [TS]

01:41:38   the 15-inch MacBook Pro that's the same [TS]

01:41:40   price whether you get the base model or [TS]

01:41:42   whether you spec up all the specs and it [TS]

01:41:45   cost like $5,000 Apple care stays the [TS]

01:41:48   same price because it's just the price [TS]

01:41:49   that of what it is for MacBook Pro the [TS]

01:41:53   iMac pro is classified as an iMac for [TS]

01:41:57   applicator purposes and so whether you [TS]

01:42:00   spend literally $1300 or $13,000 [TS]

01:42:06   AppleCare is the same price of a hundred [TS]

01:42:09   and sixty nine dollars and when I when I [TS]

01:42:12   ordered this like it you know it shows [TS]

01:42:13   you like on the second page it shows [TS]

01:42:15   like the order screen of like you do you [TS]

01:42:16   want to add the applicator your I [TS]

01:42:17   thought it was a mistake I'm like [TS]

01:42:19   there's no way that like a ten thousand [TS]

01:42:21   dollar configuration of this computer [TS]

01:42:23   that Apple care is under $200 there's no [TS]

01:42:26   way but it turns out that is not a [TS]

01:42:29   mistake [TS]

01:42:29   that's just what it costs so this is one [TS]

01:42:32   of those things I I say like I buy [TS]

01:42:34   applique selectively based on the [TS]

01:42:36   economics involved in each decision I [TS]

01:42:38   would definitely recommend Bucky iMac [TS]

01:42:41   bro just because you know hey these are [TS]

01:42:44   really expensive parts if you ever need [TS]

01:42:45   to get them serviced you know I would [TS]

01:42:47   assume that that servicing this is going [TS]

01:42:49   to cost more simply because the [TS]

01:42:50   components are more advanced and higher [TS]

01:42:52   higher and and will cost more and be [TS]

01:42:54   that is such a cheap price for Apple [TS]

01:42:57   care relative to the cost of the machine [TS]

01:42:59   that it seems like an exceptionally good [TS]

01:43:01   deal in this case one thing about the [TS]

01:43:03   PCI Express Lanes back in the [TS]

01:43:06   cheesegrater days maybe all the cheese I [TS]

01:43:09   think they they had like one good slot [TS]

01:43:11   for your good card and then one slot [TS]

01:43:14   with like half the number of lanes but [TS]

01:43:16   for the purposes of in those days put [TS]

01:43:20   the purposes of having like a crossfire [TS]

01:43:21   duel GPUs for games and stuff like that [TS]

01:43:24   most games could get by with eight lanes [TS]

01:43:26   instead of sixteen so you'd put one card [TS]

01:43:28   in the sixteen one card in the eight but [TS]

01:43:29   just run them the same speed and they [TS]

01:43:31   would you know work or just having two [TS]

01:43:34   cards to have like a larger number of [TS]

01:43:35   monitors back before you could drive ten [TS]

01:43:37   thousand monitors off your laptops it [TS]

01:43:39   was a big deal to have two video cards [TS]

01:43:41   each of which could drive two monitors [TS]

01:43:42   and you get a big setup like that so [TS]

01:43:44   it's conceivable that a Mac Pro could [TS]

01:43:48   have one 16x slot and then a bunch of [TS]

01:43:51   slower slots somewhat you'd still put [TS]

01:43:53   cards in especially if you just want to [TS]

01:43:55   expand the number of monitors of you who [TS]

01:43:57   knows maybe you're making some weird [TS]

01:43:58   simulation thing that needs 15 monitors [TS]

01:43:59   right if you have enough slots it [TS]

01:44:02   doesn't matter that they're not all 16 [TS]

01:44:04   lanes you just need enough to drive a [TS]

01:44:05   monitor right so there's a lot of [TS]

01:44:08   flexibility I continue to think that [TS]

01:44:10   card slots won't be what the Mac Pro is [TS]

01:44:12   about but who knows like you just need a [TS]

01:44:13   couple of slots to make it so much [TS]

01:44:15   better than zero slots right and and I [TS]

01:44:18   would be perfectly happy if there was [TS]

01:44:19   only one [TS]

01:44:20   sixteen X slot in there and then just [TS]

01:44:22   you know one or two lesser ones or even [TS]

01:44:24   zero lesser ones because all I really [TS]

01:44:26   care about is the abilities upgrade the [TS]

01:44:27   GPU but other people other people's [TS]

01:44:29   mileage may vary I do wonder about slots [TS]

01:44:32   in the Mac Pro how has Apple [TS]

01:44:35   successfully entirely killed the market [TS]

01:44:38   for any card you can buy to stick in a [TS]

01:44:40   Mac I suppose not because a lot of PC [TS]

01:44:42   cards will still work in there or will [TS]

01:44:44   work and there was some you know minor [TS]

01:44:45   change right but it's not as if there's [TS]

01:44:48   tons and tons of cards being sold to Mac [TS]

01:44:51   users because what would they put them [TS]

01:44:52   in it's been many many years since Apple [TS]

01:44:54   has sold the computer brand new that [TS]

01:44:56   takes expansion cards PCI Express cards [TS]

01:45:00   in them so I have to imagine if you were [TS]

01:45:03   in the market of selling whatever cards [TS]

01:45:05   for whatever they go inside a Mac said [TS]

01:45:07   that's been a difficult market for a [TS]

01:45:09   while alright so you know that's that's [TS]

01:45:13   something to watch for I like it seems [TS]

01:45:14   like there's plenty of lanes to go [TS]

01:45:15   around it gives Apple lots of [TS]

01:45:16   flexibility Apple could certainly use [TS]

01:45:19   them all in the Mac Pro but it would not [TS]

01:45:21   be absolutely shocked [TS]

01:45:22   if it turns out that even in the biggest [TS]

01:45:24   beefiest configuration of Mac Pro that [TS]

01:45:27   was actually still a couple of lanes [TS]

01:45:28   left over for something well and you [TS]

01:45:30   know maybe the e GPU situation now we'll [TS]

01:45:33   keep that market alive for compute cards [TS]

01:45:37   and GPUs like I I don't expect that [TS]

01:45:39   market to come back for things like [TS]

01:45:40   video capture car like that that was [TS]

01:45:42   like one of the some of the big uses of [TS]

01:45:44   PCI cards in the past have been like [TS]

01:45:46   custom high-end video capture cards [TS]

01:45:48   certain raid controllers and stuff like [TS]

01:45:52   that like that's probably not coming [TS]

01:45:53   back or even like putting USB 3 in a [TS]

01:45:55   really old cheese grater stuff like that [TS]

01:45:57   like these tiny little cards that look [TS]

01:45:59   like they're you know embarrassingly [TS]

01:46:01   small like they didn't even thinking of [TS]

01:46:02   a card slot like this there's lots of [TS]

01:46:05   things that you can do in those cards [TS]

01:46:06   don't have to be super Mac specific [TS]

01:46:08   thing and again it lengthen the life of [TS]

01:46:10   your computer by giving an interface [TS]

01:46:12   that it didn't have before whatever even [TS]

01:46:14   like a 10 gig Ethernet card and a Mac [TS]

01:46:16   Pro didn't come with 10 gig Ethernet or [TS]

01:46:17   whatever I would guess that the the only [TS]

01:46:21   likely role of card slots in a new Mac [TS]

01:46:24   Pro is GPUs slash compute cards if they [TS]

01:46:27   do that I'm guessing there's a limit of [TS]

01:46:28   two slots if if for nothing else for [TS]

01:46:30   bandwidth or for just sheer size or [TS]

01:46:33   Apple being Apple not wanted to offer [TS]

01:46:35   you a ton of PCI slots cuz they view [TS]

01:46:37   those as unnecessary slash the past [TS]

01:46:39   slash of burden and all of those I think [TS]

01:46:41   today that that would be a reasonable [TS]

01:46:42   position to take as long as you can [TS]

01:46:44   support GPUs and compute cards I think [TS]

01:46:47   you're okay so Casey are you still with [TS]

01:46:50   us so so now now comes the final my [TS]

01:46:55   final thought on this for this ten [TS]

01:46:56   minute period so you know they call this [TS]

01:47:00   guy Mac Pro and John said we'll never [TS]

01:47:03   buy one I said I would never buy one [TS]

01:47:05   never recall saying like an hour ago but [TS]

01:47:08   but I do I think it's very very clear by [TS]

01:47:12   looking you know look at what this [TS]

01:47:14   machine actually is the only reason [TS]

01:47:17   that's called iMac is because it has a [TS]

01:47:19   closed back in a screen on the front but [TS]

01:47:21   by all accounts this is a Mac Pro like [TS]

01:47:26   the reason we're talking about it so [TS]

01:47:27   much the reason we're so excited the [TS]

01:47:29   reason it's so damn fast is because it's [TS]

01:47:31   a Mac Pro it's in everything but name [TS]

01:47:34   and shape but it isn't like even the [TS]

01:47:37   shape is not that different from what we [TS]

01:47:38   had from 2013 forward one of the reasons [TS]

01:47:41   I'm so happy about this is that we've [TS]

01:47:43   been curling for years for a Mac Pro [TS]

01:47:46   update well they just gave us one this [TS]

01:47:48   is a Mac Pro update and it isn't exactly [TS]

01:47:51   what everybody wants like a lot of [TS]

01:47:52   people still want the you know what a [TS]

01:47:53   what an expandable headless tower will [TS]

01:47:56   offer them and I might be one of these [TS]

01:47:58   two you know the side when it comes out [TS]

01:48:00   but I am just really excited about this [TS]

01:48:03   machine because they gave us a new Mac [TS]

01:48:05   Pro it's a Mac Pro period no matter what [TS]

01:48:08   they call it this is a Mac Pro and [TS]

01:48:11   that's really great I'm really excited [TS]

01:48:13   about that I just cannot wait to be [TS]

01:48:16   using a Mac Pro again even if there's an [TS]

01:48:18   extra letter in front of it see how [TS]

01:48:20   excited you are when you have to bring [TS]

01:48:22   it in for image retention yeah well I'm [TS]

01:48:25   a little worried about service issues [TS]

01:48:27   like like the most prosaic things like [TS]

01:48:31   the the guts of it all work great great [TS]

01:48:33   but it's like the the screen ends up [TS]

01:48:35   being with you know it's the all-in-one [TS]

01:48:36   factor like that if something goes wrong [TS]

01:48:38   with it even if everything else is [TS]

01:48:39   working fine the dull thing has to go in [TS]

01:48:41   so anyway and and it's been brought up [TS]

01:48:43   by a lot of the people and I've been [TS]

01:48:44   thinking about Italy too as I sit here [TS]

01:48:45   in front of my [TS]

01:48:46   nearly ten-year-old maunder that 5k [TS]

01:48:49   screen in iMac is great tying it to like [TS]

01:48:53   it's going to age much more slowly than [TS]

01:48:54   the internals because it's not like the [TS]

01:48:56   5k screen is gonna be cutting edge [TS]

01:48:57   forever say a case readings come out is [TS]

01:48:59   like oh that's stinky 5k screen but that [TS]

01:49:01   5k screaming will be a great screen for [TS]

01:49:03   years and years and years and years like [TS]

01:49:05   you could you could keep somebody it was [TS]

01:49:08   reliable and it kept working you're not [TS]

01:49:10   going to turn your nose up at that [TS]

01:49:11   screen anytime soon [TS]

01:49:12   like there is no second retina [TS]

01:49:15   revolution where we have another 5x [TS]

01:49:17   increase in resolution because there's [TS]

01:49:19   no benefit to that maybe HDR will start [TS]

01:49:21   to make it crappy but if we got all that [TS]

01:49:23   on the desktop have like those real OLED [TS]

01:49:25   black levels aw man that'd be great but [TS]

01:49:27   I don't that doesn't seem like it's [TS]

01:49:28   happening soon wait an HDR but I say [TS]

01:49:31   because I'm sitting in front of a [TS]

01:49:32   ten-year-old monitor here this monitor [TS]

01:49:33   is not retina it's not great the black [TS]

01:49:36   levels on deter atrocious but it still [TS]

01:49:38   looks nice like my qualifier for look [TS]

01:49:40   nice especially with Apple monitors [TS]

01:49:42   color uniformity uh and general [TS]

01:49:45   sharpness goes a long way right the fact [TS]

01:49:48   that this is still like if I make screen [TS]

01:49:50   entirely white I can't tell there's like [TS]

01:49:52   a dark splotch and a life swatch and [TS]

01:49:53   stuff like that no image retention as [TS]

01:49:55   far as I'm able to tell all the pictures [TS]

01:49:57   are still alive looks about as good as [TS]

01:49:59   the day I got it yeah it's small but you [TS]

01:50:04   know if I wasn't me I could have been [TS]

01:50:06   using this monitor but the series of [TS]

01:50:07   Mac's right and it kind of makes me feel [TS]

01:50:09   bad about I have a 27 inch Thunderbolt [TS]

01:50:13   Display up in the attic which granted is [TS]

01:50:15   an external display but because it's [TS]

01:50:17   like a thunderbolt weirdness I don't [TS]

01:50:18   have stuff to plug it into without a [TS]

01:50:20   dongle type adapter but I you know and [TS]

01:50:22   if I could have plugged that into my [TS]

01:50:23   current Mac and it wasn't ten years old [TS]

01:50:25   I would have anyway all this is to say [TS]

01:50:28   that for all of the iMac pros greatness [TS]

01:50:32   all-in-one is still an all-in-one and [TS]

01:50:33   it's great for what you want it to be [TS]

01:50:35   but the all-in-one compromises are still [TS]

01:50:37   there and you have to be aware of them [TS]

01:50:38   and no matter how awesome they make the [TS]

01:50:39   internals nothing changes the stripes of [TS]

01:50:42   and all on being an all-in-one and and [TS]

01:50:44   mostly I think about it because that you [TS]

01:50:47   know maybe I think about it because my [TS]

01:50:49   wife's monitoring or 5k iMac was so much [TS]

01:50:51   better than the thing that I sit in [TS]

01:50:52   front of every day I'm like man I would [TS]

01:50:54   love to use that as [TS]

01:50:55   and I know that it will never happen [TS]

01:50:57   when the when the guts of that 5k iMac [TS]

01:50:59   become old and slow I can't just use it [TS]

01:51:03   as a monitor for another machine which [TS]

01:51:05   you couldn't you couldn't do with one of [TS]

01:51:07   the older non red and IMAX if I recall [TS]

01:51:09   correctly but anyway I'm like what I'm [TS]

01:51:11   saying is I'm looking forward to the pro [TS]

01:51:12   display almost as much as the Mac Pro [TS]

01:51:15   yeah I really am very excited to see [TS]

01:51:19   what that ends up being but honestly [TS]

01:51:21   like if we didn't have anything any hope [TS]

01:51:25   of a Mac Pro coming you know if we [TS]

01:51:28   didn't have that that you know the [TS]

01:51:29   statements for Apple saying they're [TS]

01:51:31   working on one if this was it if this [TS]

01:51:34   was the only thing that was gonna be the [TS]

01:51:36   new Mac Pro that's not bad it would [TS]

01:51:39   still be amazing I would still be very [TS]

01:51:41   excited I would have ordered it if that [TS]

01:51:43   was the case I would have ordered and I [TS]

01:51:45   wouldn't have been too grumpy about [TS]

01:51:46   ordering got my grumpy I would have been [TS]

01:51:54   grumpy by making a Mac Pro but I [TS]

01:51:57   wouldn't have been that grumpy about [TS]

01:51:58   having to order this because I would you [TS]

01:52:00   know like at various times I have to [TS]

01:52:02   actually consider replacing my Mac Pro [TS]

01:52:04   with a 5k when in my darkest times and [TS]

01:52:06   it's clear that the 5k is not like a Mac [TS]

01:52:09   Pro any stretch of the imagination its [TS]

01:52:10   consumer CPUs it's you know like but it [TS]

01:52:14   would be you know at a certain point [TS]

01:52:15   it's a big upgrade so I would mostly be [TS]

01:52:18   complaining about why aren't you gonna [TS]

01:52:21   make a Mac Pro but then when it came to [TS]

01:52:23   like how have fun if you're not gonna [TS]

01:52:24   make a Mac Pro you're not gonna do that [TS]

01:52:26   thing I guess I'll settle for what you [TS]

01:52:28   do get in settling for the iMac Pro is a [TS]

01:52:31   hell of a lot better than selling for a [TS]

01:52:33   5k iMac so come on I mean I admire your [TS]

01:52:37   enthusiasm John I really do but both of [TS]

01:52:40   you would be going bananas maybe not [TS]

01:52:43   Marco after this phone call but up until [TS]

01:52:45   this phone call the two of you would be [TS]

01:52:47   inconsolable about how this is BS [TS]

01:52:50   they're not taking pros seriously I want [TS]

01:52:53   expansion I want to be able to get [TS]

01:52:55   inside it that would be true but it [TS]

01:52:57   would be less about complaining about [TS]

01:52:58   specifically the matter [TS]

01:52:59   the iMac probably more about complaining [TS]

01:53:01   where is the Mac Pro and how are you you [TS]

01:53:03   know all the people you're abandoning [TS]

01:53:04   with with a few Mac Pro I mean the whole [TS]

01:53:07   thing they had the April but they we [TS]

01:53:08   don't have to do that like they they [TS]

01:53:09   change their mind everyone's all happy [TS]

01:53:11   we're just waiting patiently also like a [TS]

01:53:13   lot of a lot of the a lot of those ships [TS]

01:53:14   sail but the 2013 Mac Pro a lot like a [TS]

01:53:17   lot of that was like oh you can't expand [TS]

01:53:18   anymore they kill all the slots there [TS]

01:53:20   they made it really expensive like that [TS]

01:53:22   all happened when in 2013 so like we [TS]

01:53:24   would have considered that like already [TS]

01:53:25   a lost cause yeah and I think that was [TS]

01:53:28   less angry about the 2013 because I [TS]

01:53:30   think I am a lot of other people just [TS]

01:53:31   assumed okay well this is but this is [TS]

01:53:33   the first one this is the first trash [TS]

01:53:35   give him a break like they're gonna you [TS]

01:53:36   know the second and third generation [TS]

01:53:38   trash will surely be great and that was [TS]

01:53:39   that was that was turned out to be a [TS]

01:53:43   mistake but but but that's why we [TS]

01:53:44   weren't like oh I don't like this 2013 [TS]

01:53:46   crash can i I didn't buy one I said this [TS]

01:53:48   is not for me I'll wait for the second [TS]

01:53:50   or third gen you know once you couldn't [TS]

01:53:51   hook a retina monitor up dude how long [TS]

01:53:52   did we talk about that it just we made [TS]

01:53:54   assumptions that were not founded that [TS]

01:53:56   computer would be updated I hope Marko [TS]

01:53:59   is not correct about this Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:01   because honestly whatever this Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:03   is if you didn't do not have a 10 year [TS]

01:54:06   old computer like me you'd be wise to [TS]

01:54:08   wait for the second generation this one [TS]

01:54:10   but maybe you wouldn't be because if [TS]

01:54:12   Marco's theory is right and there never [TS]

01:54:13   will be a second generation this new Mac [TS]

01:54:15   Pro it'll be very unwise to wait for it [TS]

01:54:17   and you should just get an iMac Pro now [TS]

01:54:19   and just be happy so I don't know I I [TS]

01:54:22   have no choice I have to get the Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:24   and it comes out it's just it's just [TS]

01:54:25   been too darn long but I worry about it [TS]

01:54:28   being a one-and-done [TS]

01:54:29   computer because that's not what I want [TS]

01:54:31   from it well but I mean at least if it [TS]

01:54:33   is you'll have 10 more years if it [TS]

01:54:36   doesn't have over getting GPUs or some [TS]

01:54:38   other weird thing is gonna be an octagon [TS]

01:54:41   and it'll spin this thing a rotating [TS]

01:54:46   restaurant [TS]

01:54:48   alright thanks to our sponsors this week [TS]

01:54:51   Squarespace Backblaze and aftershocks I [TS]

01:54:53   will see you next week [TS]

01:54:57   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:55:01   mean to begin cuz it was accidental [TS]

01:55:04   oh it was accidental johnny research [TS]

01:55:10   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it [TS]

01:55:13   was accidentally was accidental you can [TS]

01:55:19   find the show notes at a CAS URL is esta [TS]

01:55:33   that's Casey less ma RC o AR m and T [TS]

01:55:38   Marco Arment SI r AC Syracuse [TS]

01:55:57   so how is it talking to Apple it was [TS]

01:56:01   pretty cool I hear you know all the [TS]

01:56:03   things you said I've been here I just [TS]

01:56:05   didn't have anything to add but that's [TS]

01:56:07   got to be pretty neat oh yeah it was it [TS]

01:56:11   was mostly it was just like you know an [TS]

01:56:13   honor that they decided to take their [TS]

01:56:15   time to talk to me you know like it you [TS]

01:56:18   know I wasn't talking like Tim but I was [TS]

01:56:20   talking to people who matter and Apple [TS]

01:56:22   who have bit busy things that they could [TS]

01:56:24   be doing like you know like these [TS]

01:56:26   schedules and in the middle of this [TS]

01:56:27   launch they have to talk to a lot of [TS]

01:56:29   people and they decided to talk to me [TS]

01:56:31   for like an hour [TS]

01:56:32   did you ask them one year if you unit [TS]

01:56:34   would arrive no I I did not I did not [TS]

01:56:37   presume that I'm getting a review in it [TS]

01:56:38   and I told them right up front cuz they [TS]

01:56:40   asked if I were one I said yes oh said [TS]

01:56:43   no be waiting for my review yeah but [TS]

01:56:48   yeah so it's it's just it's mostly just [TS]

01:56:50   an honor and and the call also just went [TS]

01:56:52   really well like you know it wasn't you [TS]

01:56:55   know if you you might think talking to [TS]

01:56:58   Apple is you know like the way Tim Cook [TS]

01:57:01   is in TV interviews like you know very [TS]

01:57:02   careful reserved a little bit cold maybe [TS]

01:57:05   but no it isn't like that like these are [TS]

01:57:07   just humans who were you know on on the [TS]

01:57:10   call trying to be helpful to you trying [TS]

01:57:11   to be friendly and again like they're [TS]

01:57:13   not gonna like let slip something about [TS]

01:57:15   the next iPhone or anything but you know [TS]

01:57:18   you're still talking to people you're [TS]

01:57:19   not talking like a robot so it's just a [TS]

01:57:21   nice friendly call it sounds to me like [TS]

01:57:23   you got handled by Apple PR oh we're [TS]

01:57:26   definitely gonna have people that people [TS]

01:57:28   you know who say that but yeah look I [TS]

01:57:31   brought a bunch of questions to them [TS]

01:57:32   some of them were a little bit [TS]

01:57:34   challenging or difficult and they you [TS]

01:57:37   know they they took them all in stride [TS]

01:57:39   and told me what they wanted to tell me [TS]

01:57:41   and you know I'm not going into this [TS]

01:57:43   saying that ever that you know because I [TS]

01:57:45   talked to them everything's going to be [TS]

01:57:46   perfect about this computer I don't know [TS]

01:57:48   yet [TS]

01:57:49   but so far it seems pretty great and I I [TS]

01:57:52   think I hope that I have been fair in [TS]

01:57:54   representing my opinion and my thoughts [TS]

01:57:57   here like I don't want to make it sound [TS]

01:57:59   like now they talk to me I'm going to [TS]

01:58:02   say everything I say only the good [TS]

01:58:04   things [TS]

01:58:04   be brainwashed and everything else it [TS]

01:58:07   just sounds like this is really a really [TS]

01:58:08   good computer and I think most of the [TS]

01:58:10   early reviews bear that out we will see [TS]

01:58:13   what happens once I get one once we get [TS]

01:58:16   one if John ever buys one and over time [TS]

01:58:19   we will see like either any long-term [TS]

01:58:20   problems that develop like reliability [TS]

01:58:22   issues or heat or things like that but [TS]

01:58:23   so far it seems pretty great and from [TS]

01:58:27   what we know so far I don't see any [TS]

01:58:30   those problems on the horizon anymore [TS]

01:58:32   you know I was very concerned about [TS]

01:58:34   thermals before between what they've [TS]

01:58:37   said and what other people have said who [TS]

01:58:39   have seen or used or who have one of [TS]

01:58:41   these computers that doesn't seem to be [TS]

01:58:43   a problem so maybe that's great we'll [TS]

01:58:46   find out I do hope that I'm representing [TS]

01:58:49   these things you know fairly and that [TS]

01:58:51   I'm not you know unreasonably biased [TS]

01:58:54   because they're being friendly towards [TS]

01:58:55   me but I don't think I am III think I'm [TS]

01:58:57   being reasonable here but if I am I know [TS]

01:58:59   you guys will tell me and if not all the [TS]

01:59:01   listeners will oh of course you are I [TS]

01:59:02   mean you can't help but be influenced by [TS]

01:59:05   that but you know as long as you call [TS]

01:59:07   out the fact that you may be influenced [TS]

01:59:09   by it I feel like listeners should be [TS]

01:59:10   able to take that into account you know [TS]

01:59:12   I mean you know the other thing is like [TS]

01:59:14   when I talk to people at Apple I don't [TS]

01:59:18   pull punches and I also I'm not like [TS]

01:59:22   super apologetic or differential or [TS]

01:59:25   anything I just treat them as peers and [TS]

01:59:28   part of that is because I don't have a [TS]

01:59:31   real job and I don't really have a boss [TS]

01:59:32   or anything and so I don't really treat [TS]

01:59:34   anybody like they're my boss and part of [TS]

01:59:37   that is that as I increasingly get into [TS]

01:59:41   my my my mid 30 is soon to be my late [TS]

01:59:44   30s I just don't care anymore about [TS]

01:59:46   anything it's the follow-up to my [TS]

01:59:54   autobiography nobody cares but me but I [TS]

01:59:57   do care [TS]

01:59:57   do care [TS]

00:00:00   I feel like a world is a little [TS]

00:00:01   upside-down did you roll over in your [TS]

00:00:03   Wrangler no I didn't roll over my [TS]

00:00:05   Wrangler we're gonna talk about that [TS]

00:00:08   since you brought it up I guess we can [TS]

00:00:10   just start with follow-up and Quinn [TS]

00:00:11   suddenly in the very first item and [TS]

00:00:12   follow up we have more Wrangler talks [TS]

00:00:13   you have awesome first of all I wanted [TS]

00:00:16   to publicly commend both John and Marco [TS]

00:00:19   for for John make giving Marco the the [TS]

00:00:23   the material with which to make a truly [TS]

00:00:25   hilarious pre-show and I had several [TS]

00:00:27   people very kindly reach out to say oh [TS]

00:00:29   my god John was on fire well oftentimes [TS]

00:00:32   it was John was on fire beating you up [TS]

00:00:34   but at the very least it was something [TS]

00:00:38   like firstly you brought the topic of [TS]

00:00:41   the show and said I have a problem I'm [TS]

00:00:43   thinking about a Wrangler you saying [TS]

00:00:45   convinced me not to get a regular and so [TS]

00:00:47   I was trying to do what you ask [TS]

00:00:49   that's not a problem I have you're [TS]

00:00:51   saying I you know I'm into thinking [TS]

00:00:54   about you bring that but you phrased it [TS]

00:00:55   as like a problem situation like if you [TS]

00:00:58   were really enthusiastic about it sound [TS]

00:01:00   like look I've decided to make a life [TS]

00:01:01   change I have found who I really am now [TS]

00:01:04   and who I really am is a Jeep Wrangler [TS]

00:01:06   person like we would have been [TS]

00:01:07   supportive of you as your friends can i [TS]

00:01:09   if I get a Wrangler if I end up with a [TS]

00:01:11   Wrangler can I have can I try to find a [TS]

00:01:13   license plate that's t o PL ISS no you [TS]

00:01:17   are not you are not allowed to have a [TS]

00:01:19   giant list pun for the rest of your life [TS]

00:01:21   oh come on anyway so we have some [TS]

00:01:25   followup with regard to oh no I got [TS]

00:01:27   distracted me I was trying to complement [TS]

00:01:29   in you too and you've distracted me so [TS]

00:01:30   anyway so yeah Marco did a very good job [TS]

00:01:32   editing down 30 minutes of garbage into [TS]

00:01:34   eight minutes of pure comedy gold that [TS]

00:01:36   was mostly on account of John giving [TS]

00:01:38   Marco the raw material with which to [TS]

00:01:40   carve comedy gold out of it so thank you [TS]

00:01:42   to the two of you even though I am [TS]

00:01:44   slightly annoyed with you now I still [TS]

00:01:46   find that conversational areas but we [TS]

00:01:48   have some follow-up about Wranglers from [TS]

00:01:50   David Crawford who writes in case you [TS]

00:01:52   can tell John that this is the guy with [TS]

00:01:53   the yellow four five eight speciali I [TS]

00:01:55   probably I hope I pronounced that right [TS]

00:01:57   I think I did anyway Quinta Fulvio [TS]

00:01:59   yeah exactly and I can drive anything I [TS]

00:02:01   want but when I run out to the garage to [TS]

00:02:02   grab a car to run around town I jump in [TS]

00:02:05   my jeep wrangler my Jeep is heavily [TS]

00:02:06   modified was not intended as a daily [TS]

00:02:08   driver but I find myself driving it more [TS]

00:02:09   than anything because it's fun and [TS]

00:02:11   nimble around [TS]

00:02:13   any thoughts John I'd buy the fun part [TS]

00:02:15   nimble nimble yeah fair I think nimble [TS]

00:02:20   in this context means it's not a [TS]

00:02:22   terribly long car I believe it was [TS]

00:02:24   affordable spends a lot of time on two [TS]

00:02:26   wheels it's very go here we go that's [TS]

00:02:32   the thing though specifically for you [TS]

00:02:35   like it it strikes me well first of all [TS]

00:02:38   for this choice of cars if you've got a [TS]

00:02:40   Ferrari a fancy Ferrari or a Jeep [TS]

00:02:42   neither one of those is really a great [TS]

00:02:44   car to you know drive around as a [TS]

00:02:47   regular car because you're not gonna [TS]

00:02:48   take your Ferrari to try to like go [TS]

00:02:50   grocery shopping and scrape the front [TS]

00:02:53   end trying to go into a gas station or [TS]

00:02:54   whatever and a jeep like like fun cars [TS]

00:02:58   like that whether they're fun sporty [TS]

00:02:59   cars are fun like off-roading cars [TS]

00:03:01   they're not really fun to go on like a [TS]

00:03:03   45 minute highway trip in a Jeep [TS]

00:03:05   Wrangler or a Ferrari like that's not [TS]

00:03:06   what they're about so it seems to me [TS]

00:03:09   that you're still as far as we can tell [TS]

00:03:11   looking for like a they call a daily [TS]

00:03:13   driver like a car that you can use every [TS]

00:03:15   day and yeah you can use a jeep every [TS]

00:03:16   day and you could use a Ferrari everyday [TS]

00:03:18   but they're both there's a lot of big [TS]

00:03:21   compromises with both of those things [TS]

00:03:23   and that's far you've been looking at [TS]

00:03:25   cars that are more like regular cars [TS]

00:03:27   that also happen to have a fun side to [TS]

00:03:29   them right I don't think either one of [TS]

00:03:32   these cars is a good choice for you so [TS]

00:03:34   forget about the four or five eight I [TS]

00:03:35   know that was the second one on your [TS]

00:03:36   list but yes totally within my budget I [TS]

00:03:41   don't know I just I thought it was funny [TS]

00:03:43   nevertheless that here's someone that [TS]

00:03:45   could really drive anything and they [TS]

00:03:47   chose they choose to have their Jeep [TS]

00:03:49   that's why I suggested a go-kart [TS]

00:03:50   remember I you think I'm making the joke [TS]

00:03:52   I don't know if that was cut or whatever [TS]

00:03:53   I suggested a go-kart because like it's [TS]

00:03:55   it's like a it's like a fun toy to have [TS]

00:03:57   like you can you know cool around on [TS]

00:03:59   that and you know it's it's a vehicle [TS]

00:04:01   but you're not gonna bring on a roads [TS]

00:04:03   but it's just fun right it's way more [TS]

00:04:04   fun than you would think these you're so [TS]

00:04:05   low to the ground anyone doesn't go fast [TS]

00:04:07   it feels fast and it corners and you [TS]

00:04:09   know you're gonna go karts right they're [TS]

00:04:10   fun and it gets that out of your system [TS]

00:04:12   so you could just have a regular car [TS]

00:04:13   there like works and keeps out the [TS]

00:04:14   weather and doesn't roll over and it's [TS]

00:04:17   safe and you know all that good stuff [TS]

00:04:19   fair enough all right we got to get out [TS]

00:04:21   a neutral I'm sorry let's talk about the [TS]

00:04:22   iMac Pro since we're not going to do any [TS]

00:04:24   of that today we can dive right in [TS]

00:04:26   say that the iMac program upgrades and [TS]

00:04:29   this is Rene Richie I guess saying you [TS]

00:04:31   can't upgrade the RAM yourself but you [TS]

00:04:33   can take it to an Apple store or [TS]

00:04:34   certified service center and they can [TS]

00:04:37   upgrade for you what now [TS]

00:04:39   that's a Bret from Rene Richey so I'm [TS]

00:04:42   assuming it's true rings right from [TS]

00:04:44   Apple's mouth we you know we said that [TS]

00:04:46   nothing is upgradable meaning like if [TS]

00:04:48   you were to open it up yourself you're [TS]

00:04:50   voiding your warranty or whatever blah [TS]

00:04:51   blah blah but apparently you can bring [TS]

00:04:53   it to Apple they're all great so as far [TS]

00:04:54   as I'm concerned I mean as Marco pointed [TS]

00:04:56   out I think and tweet replies this like [TS]

00:04:58   then you have to pay apples prices for [TS]

00:05:00   RAM which is ridiculous but at the very [TS]

00:05:04   least it shows Apple not entirely [TS]

00:05:06   closing the door wondering that also [TS]

00:05:07   applies to like SSDs could you take it [TS]

00:05:08   to Apple and say please take out this [TS]

00:05:11   SSD and I will pay your crazy price too [TS]

00:05:13   but have twice as big an SSD and you'll [TS]

00:05:16   put it in there for me but I mean I [TS]

00:05:18   still think the best bet is to just buy [TS]

00:05:20   it how you want to configure it because [TS]

00:05:21   all these upgrade options seem like [TS]

00:05:23   they're expensive but you know this is I [TS]

00:05:26   guess this is official from Apple if [TS]

00:05:28   they're gonna do the upgrade then at [TS]

00:05:30   least that's one option available to you [TS]

00:05:31   if you don't mind the cost yeah and [TS]

00:05:34   there are also third-party Apple [TS]

00:05:35   authorized service centers so maybe you [TS]

00:05:38   could get them to do it for you with [TS]

00:05:40   third-party Ram that would be cheaper [TS]

00:05:42   but that's a big maybe and it probably [TS]

00:05:45   wouldn't be that much cheaper relatively [TS]

00:05:47   speaking and then if you ever had to [TS]

00:05:48   send it back into Apple you know they're [TS]

00:05:50   gonna see that and they're gonna you [TS]

00:05:52   know make you remove it or have a [TS]

00:05:54   problem with it or something before [TS]

00:05:55   they'd service the machine or something [TS]

00:05:56   so like it's it's like having all the [TS]

00:06:00   downside to having third-party RAM in [TS]

00:06:02   your Mac that that have been forever of [TS]

00:06:03   you know trouble with Apple servers [TS]

00:06:05   sometimes and everything else you know [TS]

00:06:06   everyone's gonna blame that for any [TS]

00:06:08   problems you have but with the added [TS]

00:06:10   complexity that you really can't get to [TS]

00:06:12   it yourself to swap it in and out and it [TS]

00:06:14   probably won't be that much cheaper so I [TS]

00:06:16   feel like this there's basically two [TS]

00:06:18   reasons why most people want upgradeable [TS]

00:06:22   RAM in a Mac reason number one which is [TS]

00:06:24   probably by far the most common is to [TS]

00:06:27   save money from apples somewhat inflated [TS]

00:06:30   costs and get cheaper RAM from somebody [TS]

00:06:32   else reason number two is to buy it with [TS]

00:06:36   one amount of RAM that you can like [TS]

00:06:37   afford today [TS]

00:06:38   and then in a few years increase the [TS]

00:06:40   amount of RAM to extend its useful life [TS]

00:06:42   time and by that point you will probably [TS]

00:06:45   have more money and also the RAM will be [TS]

00:06:46   cheaper this seems to maybe solve the [TS]

00:06:50   second one but it almost certainly won't [TS]

00:06:54   solve the first one and I feel like the [TS]

00:06:56   first one is probably the more common [TS]

00:06:58   case among people who would be following [TS]

00:07:00   this kind of news and making this kind [TS]

00:07:01   of comment so while it is nice that the [TS]

00:07:04   RAM is upgradable by somebody the fact [TS]

00:07:06   that it's not really upgradable by you [TS]

00:07:08   is it might as well be not upgradable [TS]

00:07:12   like I I'm with John I would strongly [TS]

00:07:14   suggest that you order it with the [TS]

00:07:16   amount of RAM that you will want for the [TS]

00:07:17   long haul if at all possible I might pro [TS]

00:07:20   input devices I I thought we had talked [TS]

00:07:22   about this on the show very briefly but [TS]

00:07:24   you can get both the blacked-out Magic [TS]

00:07:28   Mouse and a blacked out trackpad and [TS]

00:07:29   something like 150 bucks for both or [TS]

00:07:31   there abouts I don't remember exactly [TS]

00:07:33   how much you can yeah they can figure it [TS]

00:07:34   it wasn't up when we were recording the [TS]

00:07:35   show but we speculated like Oh what do [TS]

00:07:38   you have to buy to IMAX to get both of [TS]

00:07:39   them because they people gave the [TS]

00:07:41   reviewer is both input devices which [TS]

00:07:43   seemed weird if that's not a thing that [TS]

00:07:44   you can buy but it totally is a thing [TS]

00:07:45   you can buy yeah and I personally don't [TS]

00:07:49   have any particular interest in the [TS]

00:07:51   trackpad I know it works for a lot of [TS]

00:07:52   people it's not really my cup of tea but [TS]

00:07:54   if I were to order an iMac Pro which [TS]

00:07:56   sitting here now I am not currently [TS]

00:07:58   planning on there is zero chance that I [TS]

00:08:01   would not get both devices because even [TS]

00:08:04   even if I didn't end up using either the [TS]

00:08:07   mouse or the trackpad you know that [TS]

00:08:09   you'll be able to sell that thing for a [TS]

00:08:10   billion dollars college fund series on [TS]

00:08:13   black trackpad it's you're absolutely [TS]

00:08:15   right unless there's some sort of like [TS]

00:08:16   software like DRM for lack of a better [TS]

00:08:19   phrase that that prevents them from [TS]

00:08:21   working with anything but a iMac Pro [TS]

00:08:23   which would be ridiculous the DRM is [TS]

00:08:26   that it would crash and offend your [TS]

00:08:27   sensibilities [TS]

00:08:28   fair point I don't know I wonder [TS]

00:08:31   genuinely once they start showing up how [TS]

00:08:33   much the keyboard let's let how much do [TS]

00:08:36   you think let's start with Marco how [TS]

00:08:37   much do you think a key but what is it [TS]

00:08:39   the the magic extended keyboard whatever [TS]

00:08:41   it's called that and either pointing [TS]

00:08:43   device doesn't matter which one just one [TS]

00:08:45   pointing device how much do you think [TS]

00:08:46   that combination will go for I'm like [TS]

00:08:47   eBay or equivalent I'm guessing it goes [TS]

00:08:50   for a little above what they would cost [TS]

00:08:52   a treat [TS]

00:08:52   I don't think it's gonna be a crazy [TS]

00:08:53   amount if it is and if it is a crazy [TS]

00:08:56   amount it's going to be only very [TS]

00:08:57   briefly once they are in people's hands [TS]

00:08:59   I don't think this is gonna be a big of [TS]

00:09:01   a deal [TS]

00:09:02   like because these are already not cheap [TS]

00:09:04   right they're already like the tripods [TS]

00:09:05   160 by itself like if you buy it at [TS]

00:09:08   retail and the keyboards I don't how [TS]

00:09:10   much keyboardist but you know and the [TS]

00:09:12   mouse is is 100 I think or 80 and so [TS]

00:09:15   like yeah maybe for the hundred $50 or [TS]

00:09:17   trackpad you might get 200 bucks you [TS]

00:09:19   know maybe maybe in the first week you [TS]

00:09:21   might get 250 but I wouldn't expect it [TS]

00:09:23   to be you know a bigger difference than [TS]

00:09:25   that I would think it would be more I [TS]

00:09:27   agree I don't think I don't think it's [TS]

00:09:28   gonna be a big premium I was gonna say [TS]

00:09:30   like a 50-buck premium for the first [TS]

00:09:31   week and then sitting down after that [TS]

00:09:33   especially when people find out that the [TS]

00:09:34   keyboard pens we got some I didn't put [TS]

00:09:39   it in fall but we did to get a bunch of [TS]

00:09:40   feedback about that from people who had [TS]

00:09:43   bent keyboards and some people actually [TS]

00:09:46   did say that as far as they're aware [TS]

00:09:47   they got it and it was fine out of the [TS]

00:09:49   box and they used it for several months [TS]

00:09:50   and eventually the middle touches when [TS]

00:09:52   it didn't used to and to the point where [TS]

00:09:54   it starts to like spin you know I don't [TS]

00:09:56   know if that's from the force of typing [TS]

00:09:58   or from like heat or something but you [TS]

00:09:59   know like when if if the contact point [TS]

00:10:01   becomes the middle and the size start to [TS]

00:10:04   lift up and it can sort of start [TS]

00:10:05   rotating itself that's no good and [TS]

00:10:07   that's super weird I mean if it's [TS]

00:10:09   happening it's happening but that's [TS]

00:10:10   super weird finally people wrote in and [TS]

00:10:13   pointed out to us that we miss talking [TS]

00:10:15   about something but I'm pretty sure we [TS]

00:10:17   missed it because it didn't happen until [TS]

00:10:18   after we recorded and that is that the [TS]

00:10:20   Mac Pro not the iMac pro but the Mac Pro [TS]

00:10:23   will be quote-unquote upgradeable and so [TS]

00:10:26   this is from an apple press release it [TS]

00:10:28   reads in addition to the new iMac Pro [TS]

00:10:31   apples working on a completely [TS]

00:10:32   redesigned next generation Mac Pro [TS]

00:10:34   architected for pro customers who need [TS]

00:10:36   the highest performance high throughput [TS]

00:10:37   system and a modular upgradable design [TS]

00:10:40   as well as a new high-end Pro display [TS]

00:10:43   now this isn't really news I don't [TS]

00:10:45   believe but it is Apple saying yet it [TS]

00:10:49   you know one more time no really [TS]

00:10:50   everybody this is a thing or well will [TS]

00:10:53   be a thing maybe one day and it should [TS]

00:10:56   hopefully solve a lot of the problems [TS]

00:10:58   that you guys justify it well I [TS]

00:10:59   shouldn't say you too but in general [TS]

00:11:01   people were complaining about and that [TS]

00:11:03   is upgradability so Marco thoughts on [TS]

00:11:05   that [TS]

00:11:06   I mean this was pretty much my fault [TS]

00:11:07   like we you know we recorded and I had [TS]

00:11:09   said like you know be careful - you know [TS]

00:11:11   taming expectations and upgradability [TS]

00:11:13   because I thought all Apple had said [TS]

00:11:15   before that point was that it would be [TS]

00:11:16   modular not necessarily upgradable but [TS]

00:11:20   then they released this press release [TS]

00:11:21   with the iMac Pro which I think was [TS]

00:11:22   actually earlier that day and we just [TS]

00:11:23   didn't see it that says literally a [TS]

00:11:26   modular upgradable design you can bring [TS]

00:11:30   your pessimism back and say that that [TS]

00:11:32   just the RAM will be upgradeable there's [TS]

00:11:33   always room for there's always room for [TS]

00:11:35   worry and also you know it might be a [TS]

00:11:38   situation like what I was just rapping [TS]

00:11:40   with the I my program which is like who [TS]

00:11:42   can upgrade it is as only Apple gonna be [TS]

00:11:44   able upgrade it also what upgrades will [TS]

00:11:47   work in it will you be able to put in [TS]

00:11:49   any GPU probably not will you be able to [TS]

00:11:52   put in any Ram probably not you know any [TS]

00:11:54   disk modules probably like you know [TS]

00:11:56   there's gonna be limits on what you can [TS]

00:11:59   put in it but there always were there [TS]

00:12:02   were and and the but the limits have [TS]

00:12:04   increased over time with with like the [TS]

00:12:05   Mac Pro towers and everything also Durst [TS]

00:12:07   technology has moved on like you know if [TS]

00:12:10   you're talking about wanting for [TS]

00:12:12   instance like what the old ones were [TS]

00:12:13   very good about disk expansion but that [TS]

00:12:16   was also before SSDs really like you [TS]

00:12:18   know the SSD revolution started right at [TS]

00:12:21   the end of the Mac Pro tower era really [TS]

00:12:23   and so you could you could put as his DS [TS]

00:12:26   into the Mac Pro tower but it was not [TS]

00:12:28   designed for them up front like it was [TS]

00:12:30   kind of a hack to get them in there if [TS]

00:12:31   they weren't a PCI card and even then [TS]

00:12:32   those were kind of a hack everything was [TS]

00:12:34   about three and a half inch disks and [TS]

00:12:35   optical drives and these days if you [TS]

00:12:37   designed that you could argue like well [TS]

00:12:39   it probably shouldn't include a three [TS]

00:12:41   and a half inch disk bay at all because [TS]

00:12:43   high-end customers probably are not [TS]

00:12:45   using a lot of internal three and a half [TS]

00:12:46   inch disks anymore so you know there's a [TS]

00:12:49   lot has changed since the era of the [TS]

00:12:51   upgradable tower and I don't even and [TS]

00:12:55   you can even argue for performance [TS]

00:12:56   reasons like you wouldn't want a whole [TS]

00:12:59   bunch of like just serial ata bays in [TS]

00:13:02   there because high-end SSDs are all [TS]

00:13:05   using direct-attached methods now like [TS]

00:13:07   their athlead attacks you the PCI bus [TS]

00:13:09   and things like nvme and stuff like that [TS]

00:13:11   so like there's not a lot of upgrade [TS]

00:13:14   ability that Pro customers who are going [TS]

00:13:17   to be buying the Mac Pro are actually [TS]

00:13:19   going to [TS]

00:13:20   beyond I think RAM disk space but not [TS]

00:13:24   necessarily like a large amount number [TS]

00:13:26   of physical disks and probably the [TS]

00:13:28   number one is GPU upgrades [TS]

00:13:30   ding-ding-ding I don't know whether [TS]

00:13:32   they're gonna deliver that but but I [TS]

00:13:33   think GPU and RAM are the big ones and [TS]

00:13:35   this is kind of a secondary one I think [TS]

00:13:37   this they can get away with especially [TS]

00:13:39   if they have a way for you to you know [TS]

00:13:41   like they can have the super high speed [TS]

00:13:43   storage but then some standard for some [TS]

00:13:44   slower bulk storage but anyway GPU is [TS]

00:13:46   the big one that's what we're talking [TS]

00:13:47   about last time GPUs keep getting faster [TS]

00:13:49   because you can make them faster by just [TS]

00:13:51   adding more transistors you can't do [TS]

00:13:53   that with CPUs you haven't been able to [TS]

00:13:54   for decade or more and so it's so [TS]

00:13:57   important to be able to to do that you [TS]

00:14:01   know even even if Apple won't that you [TS]

00:14:03   can do that's why you know we talked for [TS]

00:14:04   the GPS last time but more people I'm [TS]

00:14:05   sending more links to people showing how [TS]

00:14:09   cruddy old cheesegrater [TS]

00:14:11   can be the iMac pro and all sorts of [TS]

00:14:14   benchmarks if you just take a faster GPU [TS]

00:14:16   and throw it in there and this is an [TS]

00:14:17   ancient cheese grater like how did these [TS]

00:14:18   new GPUs even working there because it's [TS]

00:14:21   just it's just PCI Express right and [TS]

00:14:23   it's just a standard card slot and how [TS]

00:14:26   does the old Mac support it it supports [TS]

00:14:28   it because then I Pro supports that an [TS]

00:14:29   apple just made generic drivers for it [TS]

00:14:31   and that Apple that's not an [TS]

00:14:34   embarrassment for Apple but it's like [TS]

00:14:35   Apple wants in on that action too hey [TS]

00:14:38   we'll make a thing where you can put a [TS]

00:14:39   new GPU in and people want that machine [TS]

00:14:41   because like you know extending the life [TS]

00:14:43   of the machine if you buy this the super [TS]

00:14:45   expensive system that is upgradeable [TS]

00:14:46   part of what you're paying for and we [TS]

00:14:47   build into the price in some way is that [TS]

00:14:51   this machine can last you a long time if [TS]

00:14:52   you're doing GPU intensive work after a [TS]

00:14:54   year or two of use you don't need to [TS]

00:14:55   throw the machine out you just take the [TS]

00:14:57   GPU out and put in one that's way faster [TS]

00:14:59   for a couple hundred bucks and a new [TS]

00:15:01   life for your machine that's that's what [TS]

00:15:03   we all want that's the future liberals [TS]

00:15:04   want we are sponsored this week by [TS]

00:15:07   aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

00:15:09   go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

00:15:12   aftershokz headphones work by bone [TS]

00:15:14   conduction this means small transducers [TS]

00:15:16   rest in front of your ears not inside or [TS]

00:15:19   around them like most headphones and [TS]

00:15:20   they send tiny vibrations that you can't [TS]

00:15:22   even feel through your cheek bones [TS]

00:15:24   directly to your inner ear which [TS]

00:15:26   bypasses the outside of your ears [TS]

00:15:28   completely so unlike every other kind of [TS]

00:15:30   headphone bone conduction leave your [TS]

00:15:32   ears completely [TS]

00:15:33   open with nothing in them so for example [TS]

00:15:36   this helps in comfort reasons if you [TS]

00:15:38   can't wear earbuds or in-ear monitors [TS]

00:15:40   without pain like I can't this doesn't [TS]

00:15:43   have that problem because there's [TS]

00:15:44   nothing in your ear they're also really [TS]

00:15:46   great for exercising and hot weather [TS]

00:15:48   because there's nothing covering your [TS]

00:15:50   ear so it doesn't get you all sweaty and [TS]

00:15:52   for exercising it's even better because [TS]

00:15:54   or if it starts raining because they are [TS]

00:15:56   ip55 certified for water resistance and [TS]

00:15:59   the biggest thing about these headphones [TS]

00:16:01   the biggest thing that I think decides [TS]

00:16:02   whether they're right for you or not is [TS]

00:16:04   because nothing is blocking your ears at [TS]

00:16:06   all you hear all the sound from the [TS]

00:16:09   world around you including what you're [TS]

00:16:11   listening to [TS]

00:16:12   so in loud surroundings this isn't so [TS]

00:16:14   good but they are awesome if you want to [TS]

00:16:16   listen to a podcast or take a phone call [TS]

00:16:17   while doing something like walking [TS]

00:16:20   outside where you really need to hear [TS]

00:16:22   the world around you for your own safety [TS]

00:16:23   they're also great for practical reasons [TS]

00:16:26   like if you want to hear the world [TS]

00:16:27   around you whether it's your home or [TS]

00:16:28   your office or anything else and you [TS]

00:16:30   want to hear like if someone knocks on [TS]

00:16:31   the door you want to know about it or [TS]

00:16:33   say your kid is sleeping upstairs they [TS]

00:16:34   wake up you want to know about that with [TS]

00:16:36   aftershocks you hear what's in the world [TS]

00:16:38   around you as well as what you're [TS]

00:16:40   listening to [TS]

00:16:40   aftershocks has two great models that I [TS]

00:16:42   recommend the Trek's titanium and the [TS]

00:16:45   Trek's air they're both fantastic the [TS]

00:16:47   air is the newer of the two I spend a [TS]

00:16:50   number of months with each of them and [TS]

00:16:51   you really can't go wrong the battery [TS]

00:16:53   life is fantastic on both of them [TS]

00:16:55   they're both very comfortable very [TS]

00:16:56   lightweight the air is a little bit [TS]

00:16:59   better for comfort and weight the [TS]

00:17:00   titanium fits in a pocket better so [TS]

00:17:03   either way either way you can't go wrong [TS]

00:17:05   there they're both wonderful so check it [TS]

00:17:07   out today go to ATP dot aftershocks com2 [TS]

00:17:12   get a good deal on a nice pair of after [TS]

00:17:14   truck strikes titanium or Trek's air [TS]

00:17:16   once again ATP after shocks calm thank [TS]

00:17:19   you so much to aftershock sponsoring our [TS]

00:17:21   show as if I don't know to follow up did [TS]

00:17:27   we order anything I will start and say I [TS]

00:17:28   if not which I think I said a moment ago [TS]

00:17:30   I still don't think I will [TS]

00:17:33   although if I ever see one in an Apple [TS]

00:17:35   store I'm gonna really have some tough [TS]

00:17:37   thoughts because I've seen this thing at [TS]

00:17:39   wabg seen it is pretty but it's rare [TS]

00:17:42   that I do anything on my iMac [TS]

00:17:45   that I have today that I feel like is [TS]

00:17:47   truly an utterly constrained by [TS]

00:17:49   something an iMac Pro would fix John did [TS]

00:17:51   you order an iMac pro it's certainly you [TS]

00:17:53   must have since this is the thing you've [TS]

00:17:55   been waiting for for years isn't it I [TS]

00:17:57   took a while for me to figure out what [TS]

00:17:58   are you even talking I like what Marco [TS]

00:18:05   was always gonna order once I know I [TS]

00:18:06   didn't buy anything Oh Marco tell us [TS]

00:18:09   about your configuration since we all [TS]

00:18:10   know you did order one I think I ordered [TS]

00:18:12   one what I ordered through the business [TS]

00:18:17   rep but I haven't gotten the order [TS]

00:18:19   confirmation email and my car has not [TS]

00:18:21   been charged and it's been four days [TS]

00:18:22   sometimes Marco blacks out when he buys [TS]

00:18:27   is inexplicable I'm not entirely sure [TS]

00:18:29   whether my order has actually been [TS]

00:18:30   placed or whether it fell on the floor [TS]

00:18:32   because that was a very busy day for [TS]

00:18:33   them or something I have to follow up [TS]

00:18:35   okay so if you ordered one what bill [TS]

00:18:38   what are the highlights of what you [TS]

00:18:40   think you are like if I did it all right [TS]

00:18:45   10 core to put this in context the [TS]

00:18:48   reason I ordered this computer is that [TS]

00:18:50   TIFF wants it in six months and so she [TS]

00:18:52   wants me to buy this now so that way [TS]

00:18:54   when when the Mac Pro comes out I [TS]

00:18:55   upgrade to that and I give her this [TS]

00:18:57   so I basically configured it for TIFF [TS]

00:18:59   which means that I got the really big [TS]

00:19:02   SSD that was the big splurge the ten [TS]

00:19:05   core 64 gigs of ram not 128 cuz any my [TS]

00:19:09   current what's the really big SSD the [TS]

00:19:11   four terabyte yeah for Tara what is she [TS]

00:19:13   it for photos and stuff what she got [TS]

00:19:15   mostly photos and stuff mostly and a [TS]

00:19:18   couple of video stuff around too because [TS]

00:19:20   like you know dealing with the photos [TS]

00:19:21   and processing them into video sometimes [TS]

00:19:23   and what what does she have like how [TS]

00:19:25   much stuff does she have now like does [TS]

00:19:26   she have more than four terabyte total [TS]

00:19:28   storage like I you are you been you [TS]

00:19:29   buying her a computer that's like twice [TS]

00:19:30   as big as the one she has now in terms [TS]

00:19:32   of primary storage or is it about the [TS]

00:19:34   same size when we bought the the 2014's [TS]

00:19:36   that we have now we've maxed it out but [TS]

00:19:38   at the time that was one terabyte so [TS]

00:19:39   it's one terabyte internal and she's had [TS]

00:19:41   this 4 terabyte external thunderbolt [TS]

00:19:45   raid array that literally is for one [TS]

00:19:47   terabyte SSDs in raid 0 don't worry it's [TS]

00:19:51   very much backed up to various places [TS]

00:19:52   but that is now that's not an operating [TS]

00:19:55   constantly for three years in this [TS]

00:19:57   little enclosure with this dumb little [TS]

00:19:58   fan [TS]

00:19:58   I don't know how long it's gonna last [TS]

00:20:00   I'd rather not depend on it for too much [TS]

00:20:02   longer if any of those go bad the last [TS]

00:20:04   thing I'm gonna want to do is buy a new [TS]

00:20:06   one terabyte SSD in 2017 so kind of [TS]

00:20:10   preparing for that to go away [TS]

00:20:12   also I just hate having another box and [TS]

00:20:14   fan and this hot thing all the federal [TS]

00:20:16   stuff runs really hot like the all the [TS]

00:20:17   controller chips that are in the end [TS]

00:20:18   devices they run like red-hot that's why [TS]

00:20:21   it needs is giant fans time for the SSDs [TS]

00:20:22   yeah basically replacing that [TS]

00:20:24   simplifying her setup and making it [TS]

00:20:27   better so that's why I did that and [TS]

00:20:29   again it was also kind of a phrase I'm [TS]

00:20:31   like you know I could probably never [TS]

00:20:33   upgrade these or at least I won't want [TS]

00:20:35   to upgrade them because whatever will be [TS]

00:20:37   involved and whatever it will cost would [TS]

00:20:38   probably be crazy so yeah 4 terabyte but [TS]

00:20:42   and that was a lot of money I'm not [TS]

00:20:44   gonna try to candy-coat that that was [TS]

00:20:46   ridiculous but you know the rest I kind [TS]

00:20:49   of down the middle configuration below [TS]

00:20:51   end GPU the middle Ram amount and the [TS]

00:20:55   middle CPU I guess how did TIFF approve [TS]

00:20:57   the low end GPU Oh interesting question [TS]

00:21:01   it's wrist so if you do the research on [TS]

00:21:03   the on the 56 versus the 64 it's not [TS]

00:21:06   that different like it's and it seems [TS]

00:21:08   like for what we do I don't think [TS]

00:21:11   anything we do you would notice the [TS]

00:21:13   difference at all because you know [TS]

00:21:16   things like Photoshop and Lightroom they [TS]

00:21:18   do use the GPU but not for a huge amount [TS]

00:21:22   of stuff and they don't use it very hard [TS]

00:21:24   and the way that we use these apps [TS]

00:21:25   additionally you're probably thinking [TS]

00:21:27   what about gaming but even for like for [TS]

00:21:30   a most games she plays or not on the [TS]

00:21:32   computer be it's still going to be a [TS]

00:21:35   massive upgrade from what we have and [TS]

00:21:36   see I don't think the gaming performance [TS]

00:21:39   difference is going to be that big [TS]

00:21:40   between those two well say yeah I'm I'm [TS]

00:21:44   surprised so well I'm anxious to hear [TS]

00:21:47   about this if and when it comes in if [TS]

00:21:49   and when you even ordered it whether or [TS]

00:21:51   not that was a fever dream we'll see if [TS]

00:21:53   I haven't ordered it you want to make [TS]

00:21:54   any edits when I resubmit the order [TS]

00:21:56   actually I think John does it sounds [TS]

00:21:58   reasonable to me I would get a big GPU [TS]

00:22:01   this is not that much more right it's [TS]

00:22:02   like a couple hundred bucks more I think [TS]

00:22:03   like 600 more it's it's a 600 more [TS]

00:22:05   that's the I elected to spend most of [TS]

00:22:08   the craziness on the disk because that's [TS]

00:22:11   well [TS]

00:22:12   we use that that's doing the thing where [TS]

00:22:13   when you you buying a car and it's so [TS]

00:22:15   expensive that $150 the floormat seems [TS]

00:22:17   like nothing same size whether you [TS]

00:22:21   compare it to 30 grand or you compare it [TS]

00:22:23   to 10 bucks it's always 150 it doesn't [TS]

00:22:25   change size but you feel like it does so [TS]

00:22:27   I can use that to persuade you given how [TS]

00:22:30   much you paid for the SSD $600 for a [TS]

00:22:32   better GPU is nothing like it's like [TS]

00:22:34   formats not wrong you know $600 is way [TS]

00:22:40   too much for the for the GPU speed [TS]

00:22:41   upgrade but what you pay for the four [TS]

00:22:43   terabyte is also a too much so you know [TS]

00:22:45   I don't know I don't want to go for me [TS]

00:22:46   it anyway talk to tip see what you I [TS]

00:22:47   agree all right shall we do some ASCII [TS]

00:22:50   TV let's do it [TS]

00:22:51   so I try to discourage emailed [TS]

00:22:54   submissions because that encourages a [TS]

00:22:57   lack of brevity however every once in a [TS]

00:22:59   while one sneaks through that I really [TS]

00:23:01   like and you added this as show notes [TS]

00:23:03   only because you beat me to it and this [TS]

00:23:05   is Jade a Lu JD lewin writes I'm looking [TS]

00:23:09   to dip my toe into the quote-unquote [TS]

00:23:11   high quality headphone plus DAC digital [TS]

00:23:13   analog converter market which led me to [TS]

00:23:15   read some of Markos older blog posts at [TS]

00:23:17   the moment the bear dynamic DT 880's [TS]

00:23:20   which I'm pretty sure is what I have on [TS]

00:23:21   my head right now [TS]

00:23:22   7 7 News darn it I can be half four [TS]

00:23:24   hundred two hundred dollars and and I [TS]

00:23:27   fool fula I don't even know how to pull [TS]

00:23:29   up thank you two for $90 this seems to [TS]

00:23:32   be an affordable way to into a into [TS]

00:23:34   dangerous waters my question is about [TS]

00:23:37   source material will this setup be [TS]

00:23:38   wasted on the AC files delivered through [TS]

00:23:40   Apple music Spotify etc so Marco take it [TS]

00:23:43   away yes so to ask the to answer the [TS]

00:23:46   actual question of whether decent [TS]

00:23:48   headphones will be wasted on playing AAC [TS]

00:23:51   files from Apple music and Spotify no [TS]

00:23:54   definitely not there is a point where [TS]

00:23:56   some people claim that they can hear [TS]

00:23:59   differences between AAC slash mp3 / [TS]

00:24:03   other loss you can press formats and [TS]

00:24:04   lossless music excuse me yeah see also [TS]

00:24:08   high sample rates higher than 44.1 you [TS]

00:24:12   know bit rates above 24-bit etc we [TS]

00:24:16   talked about this before but but you [TS]

00:24:17   know basically I'm not a believer in [TS]

00:24:20   that being noticeable by most people I'm [TS]

00:24:24   not sure if it was noted by any people [TS]

00:24:25   but I at least with a few like blind [TS]

00:24:29   tests that have been done seem to [TS]

00:24:30   support that it really is not noticeable [TS]

00:24:33   by almost anybody that's so whereas the [TS]

00:24:36   difference in headphones like or [TS]

00:24:38   speakers like like the difference in the [TS]

00:24:40   actual transducers that are producing [TS]

00:24:43   the music for you that can be huge [TS]

00:24:45   differences in very noticeable ways so [TS]

00:24:48   when you're looking for like you know [TS]

00:24:50   places to spend money if you want to get [TS]

00:24:52   a good upgrade a good bang for your buck [TS]

00:24:54   spend that money on the headphones or [TS]

00:24:56   the speakers and not on like the amps [TS]

00:24:59   and the DAX and the fancy source [TS]

00:25:01   material and the high bitrate everything [TS]

00:25:03   like you will notice the headphones you [TS]

00:25:05   will not notice the DAC and you will not [TS]

00:25:08   notice the the source material being you [TS]

00:25:11   know good or bad because unless it's [TS]

00:25:13   encoded at very low bit rates like a 128 [TS]

00:25:15   K mp3 or you know like about the same [TS]

00:25:17   AAC like as long as it's higher than [TS]

00:25:18   that basically you're probably not gonna [TS]

00:25:20   notice it and and all the services now [TS]

00:25:22   they all offer high-quality streaming if [TS]

00:25:25   you have enough bandwidth that is high [TS]

00:25:27   enough that you're not going to notice [TS]

00:25:28   it so don't worry about that on the [TS]

00:25:31   headphone topic itself the bear dynamic [TS]

00:25:33   dt 880 is a very old headphone but still [TS]

00:25:37   a very very good one and if it can be [TS]

00:25:39   had for under 200 bucks that's a great [TS]

00:25:41   deal there's a huge headphone revolution [TS]

00:25:44   happening over the last few years lots [TS]

00:25:45   and lots of amazing headphones are [TS]

00:25:46   coming out and a lot of formerly fairly [TS]

00:25:49   premium ones are being pushed down [TS]

00:25:51   market that is one of them I highly [TS]

00:25:53   suggest if you are a fan of treble in [TS]

00:25:57   music and like if you if you like that [TS]

00:26:00   kind of like crispness that that turning [TS]

00:26:02   up the trouble a little bit offers you [TS]

00:26:03   in music it doesn't if it doesn't sound [TS]

00:26:05   harsh to you Bayer dynamic is a great [TS]

00:26:07   company to look at their headphones tend [TS]

00:26:10   to be a little treble heavy but if you [TS]

00:26:12   like that they are wonderful they are [TS]

00:26:14   also incredibly comfortable [TS]

00:26:17   the downside is at the 880 like almost [TS]

00:26:20   any good and especially due to an [TS]

00:26:21   expensive headphone has an open back to [TS]

00:26:24   the to the ear cups so that means if [TS]

00:26:26   you've never use this before you're [TS]

00:26:28   you're basically the drivers are kind of [TS]

00:26:30   suspended in open air the backs of the [TS]

00:26:32   headphones are just like screens they're [TS]

00:26:34   not solid material and so a Iong tinny [TS]

00:26:38   version of what you are [TS]

00:26:39   - plays out to the to the room around [TS]

00:26:42   you and they don't isolate you very well [TS]

00:26:45   from outside sounds so this is really a [TS]

00:26:49   terrible setup it's a terrible thing to [TS]

00:26:51   use open headphones if you are in either [TS]

00:26:53   a loud environment like walking around a [TS]

00:26:55   city or if you are sharing an office [TS]

00:26:58   with anybody because your music will be [TS]

00:27:01   really annoyingly tinny and weird [TS]

00:27:03   sounding to anyone else in the office [TS]

00:27:04   they will hate you if you play [TS]

00:27:05   headphones in that way but if you have [TS]

00:27:07   like your own quiet space where there's [TS]

00:27:09   not other people around to annoy open [TS]

00:27:11   headphones are by far the best sound you [TS]

00:27:14   can get for the money [TS]

00:27:15   knotti it's not even close and there's [TS]

00:27:18   basically three points that you need to [TS]

00:27:20   know about in this market on the very [TS]

00:27:22   low end you have the grado sr60 sounds [TS]

00:27:25   amazing costs like 60 or 70 bucks but is [TS]

00:27:27   pretty uncomfortable then you have the [TS]

00:27:29   day or dynamic dt 880 which is the one [TS]

00:27:32   that JD is asking about here [TS]

00:27:34   they are great Tiff's use as a pair on [TS]

00:27:37   at her desk still they're wonderful [TS]

00:27:38   around 200 bucks very very comfortable [TS]

00:27:41   everything about them is great except [TS]

00:27:42   they have that open back which is you [TS]

00:27:44   know impractical in certain contexts and [TS]

00:27:46   then also if you don't like very strong [TS]

00:27:49   treble you won't like either of those [TS]

00:27:50   options if you like it more what they [TS]

00:27:52   call laid-back sound where they kind of [TS]

00:27:54   like roll off the treble it's very much [TS]

00:27:56   like younger people tend to like this a [TS]

00:27:58   little bit more because it kind of goes [TS]

00:27:59   into like the soft is loud musical [TS]

00:28:02   aesthetic that has been taken over [TS]

00:28:03   recently in like emo music and stuff and [TS]

00:28:05   whatever else that I'm probably mangling [TS]

00:28:07   the terminology for if you like that if [TS]

00:28:09   you don't like a lot of trouble and you [TS]

00:28:10   like it to be very soft and like you [TS]

00:28:13   know gentle on your ears the Sennheiser [TS]

00:28:17   HD 650 used to be $600 and in recent [TS]

00:28:22   years they've done a bunch of like [TS]

00:28:23   special things or they've cut in the [TS]

00:28:25   price at that or they're doing special [TS]

00:28:27   editions with mass drop but it's still [TS]

00:28:29   basically the HD 650 that is an amazing [TS]

00:28:32   headphone it's old and it looks kind of [TS]

00:28:34   weird it has like speckled plastic it's [TS]

00:28:36   a very ugly thing but it's like it's an [TS]

00:28:39   amazing sounding headphone if you can [TS]

00:28:40   get it for below 300 bucks and if you [TS]

00:28:43   don't like that strong treble that the [TS]

00:28:44   bear that I make will give you so [TS]

00:28:46   basically those my recommendations [TS]

00:28:47   ignore the source material quality just [TS]

00:28:49   get whatever you get don't be upset it's [TS]

00:28:50   wonderful it'll be good enough and if [TS]

00:28:53   you [TS]

00:28:53   spend 60 bucks like any like treble and [TS]

00:28:55   you don't like comfort get the great OSR [TS]

00:28:57   60 if you if you want comfort and still [TS]

00:29:02   like treble the DT 880 and if you don't [TS]

00:29:06   like treble and you can spend like 300 [TS]

00:29:08   bucks ish range the sennheiser HD 650 [TS]

00:29:11   and on the dax side all of those can be [TS]

00:29:16   driven perfectly fine from the headphone [TS]

00:29:18   jack in any mac desktop or laptop the [TS]

00:29:22   phone you won't get a lot of volume out [TS]

00:29:24   of if you if you try to push it too high [TS]

00:29:25   but you don't need an external DAC for [TS]

00:29:28   any of those headphones you might get a [TS]

00:29:30   little bit better performance in volume [TS]

00:29:32   and maybe at the highest volumes maybe a [TS]

00:29:34   little bit better bass especially this [TS]

00:29:36   the HD 650 is the least efficient of all [TS]

00:29:38   those that I just mentioned so that's [TS]

00:29:39   the one that most would need one but [TS]

00:29:42   you're pretty much fine without without [TS]

00:29:44   that if you like if you just want to [TS]

00:29:46   start just got a really nice pair of [TS]

00:29:47   headphones that can work with the [TS]

00:29:48   built-in headphone jack in your Mac [TS]

00:29:50   which almost everything can you know I [TS]

00:29:53   just like to say I agree with pretty [TS]

00:29:56   much everything you said I don't know [TS]

00:29:57   about specific recommendations of [TS]

00:29:58   headphones I haven't bought headphones [TS]

00:29:59   in a long time outside of my ear pods [TS]

00:30:01   but I wanted to and I think I've done [TS]

00:30:04   this every time you brought it up I [TS]

00:30:05   wanted to concur with you about open [TS]

00:30:07   headphones I have an ancient pair of [TS]

00:30:10   Sennheiser's I don't even remember what [TS]

00:30:11   model they are they're so damaged there [TS]

00:30:13   are five nine eight maybe something like [TS]

00:30:15   that I mean they're like easily ten [TS]

00:30:16   years old at this point and I can dig up [TS]

00:30:19   what they are doesn't really matter but [TS]

00:30:21   suffice to say I have an ancient pair of [TS]

00:30:23   Sennheiser open-air headphones and they [TS]

00:30:26   are phenomenal they are truly truly [TS]

00:30:31   great it is terrible to be within 30 [TS]

00:30:33   feet of me when I was but but they are [TS]

00:30:36   really really good and I also wanted to [TS]

00:30:39   agree with you about the quality of the [TS]

00:30:41   source material that you you can go flak [TS]

00:30:44   if you want if you want to be one of [TS]

00:30:46   those kind of nerds but again Marko was [TS]

00:30:48   absolutely right that the best thing to [TS]

00:30:50   do is change your headphones I will [TS]

00:30:52   however say if you can stand in ear [TS]

00:30:56   earbuds earphones whatever then ear [TS]

00:30:59   monitors I thank you yeah well not even [TS]

00:31:02   the custom mold ones I'm just talking [TS]

00:31:03   about like a really really fancy pair of [TS]

00:31:06   in-ear [TS]

00:31:06   phones I think they're a lot more [TS]

00:31:08   finicky I I don't think they're really [TS]

00:31:11   worth it [TS]

00:31:12   but I have a really fancy pair of now [TS]

00:31:14   very discontinued Ultimate Ears in-ear [TS]

00:31:17   headphone things and they are when [TS]

00:31:21   they're seated properly they're the best [TS]

00:31:23   headphones I have but to be fair to get [TS]

00:31:26   them seated a hundred percent properly [TS]

00:31:27   is a real pain in the butt so I still [TS]

00:31:30   think Marcos right that doing something [TS]

00:31:31   a traditional headphone preferably open [TS]

00:31:33   air is a better choice but if you have [TS]

00:31:35   ears that are conducive to in-ear things [TS]

00:31:39   or are willing to spend the money to get [TS]

00:31:41   your ears poured and you know get custom [TS]

00:31:43   molds made to get im's like Marco just [TS]

00:31:46   brought up that is probably the money no [TS]

00:31:48   object you know effort no object best in [TS]

00:31:52   most effective way to get good [TS]

00:31:53   headphones in my personal opinion but a [TS]

00:31:55   lot of people don't really agree with [TS]

00:31:57   that hello Marco and other people don't [TS]

00:31:59   want to spend that money and don't want [TS]

00:32:01   to be bothered hello both of us oh it's [TS]

00:32:05   not the it's not the best answer unless [TS]

00:32:06   you're really really going deep into [TS]

00:32:09   this world but it's worth at least [TS]

00:32:11   mentioning all right Jeremy Nachman [TS]

00:32:14   writes I've never had much interest in [TS]

00:32:16   cars personally but I have a nine year [TS]

00:32:17   old who seems to have an interest do you [TS]

00:32:19   have any car magazine recommendations [TS]

00:32:20   the kids would enjoy doesn't necessarily [TS]

00:32:22   need to be one targeting a kids audience [TS]

00:32:25   when I was growing up and I was about [TS]

00:32:27   this age I used to love reading Car and [TS]

00:32:28   Driver and I don't pay attention to [TS]

00:32:30   print magazines very much anymore and I [TS]

00:32:32   know John you do so I'm gonna turn it [TS]

00:32:33   over to you in a second but last I saw a [TS]

00:32:35   car driver was still pretty good Motor [TS]

00:32:37   Trend was okay you can also get a lot of [TS]

00:32:40   really good stuff on YouTube and that's [TS]

00:32:42   not even like me trying to plug myself [TS]

00:32:44   although hey Casey on cars is a new [TS]

00:32:45   series you might want to look at so here [TS]

00:32:47   I am plugging myself but uh but no like [TS]

00:32:48   the Motor Trend stuff that's on YouTube [TS]

00:32:50   is actually very very good and very [TS]

00:32:51   digestible and not too bro II generally [TS]

00:32:55   speaking there's plenty of car stuff on [TS]

00:32:57   YouTube that is very bro II and I [TS]

00:32:59   wouldn't necessarily recommend for a [TS]

00:33:00   nine year old but the Motor Trend stuff [TS]

00:33:02   is good in terms of magazines car and [TS]

00:33:04   driver John additional thoughts yeah the [TS]

00:33:07   kid angle on this is what makes it [TS]

00:33:09   difficult because I still watch a lot of [TS]

00:33:11   car stuff on YouTube and [TS]

00:33:13   I have in the past subscribe to I think [TS]

00:33:16   every car every straight car magazine [TS]

00:33:19   like you know truck magazines or you [TS]

00:33:21   know hotrod magazines or more specialty [TS]

00:33:23   type of stuff which may be what you had [TS]

00:33:26   ends up getting into but for car [TS]

00:33:28   magazines car driver is still my gold [TS]

00:33:30   standard but the reason I have trouble [TS]

00:33:33   recommending this for a kid is because [TS]

00:33:36   like when you think of car magazines [TS]

00:33:38   like in the worst case scenario you're [TS]

00:33:41   thinking of like some Hot Rod Magazine [TS]

00:33:43   where every single month is there's a [TS]

00:33:45   girl in a bikini sitting on the roof of [TS]

00:33:46   a car and you're like oh I'm not gonna [TS]

00:33:47   buy those for my kids because that's you [TS]

00:33:49   know I don't want to spread that kind of [TS]

00:33:51   message about how the stuff works but [TS]

00:33:53   here's the problem with even car and [TS]

00:33:56   driver which I think has some of the [TS]

00:33:57   best car riding and has for many years [TS]

00:33:59   now it is relentlessly unconsciously [TS]

00:34:03   sexist like it is in every pore of that [TS]

00:34:07   magazine and you think there's no girls [TS]

00:34:09   in bikinis on the cover like it's fine [TS]

00:34:10   right it's not though like every article [TS]

00:34:12   is written assuming the the person [TS]

00:34:14   reading it is a man like every joke [TS]

00:34:17   every gag every cover image I really [TS]

00:34:19   like so much so that they they don't [TS]

00:34:21   even know they're doing it they don't [TS]

00:34:22   even think that there could possibly be [TS]

00:34:24   another joke they don't make any attempt [TS]

00:34:25   like and and then there's some [TS]

00:34:28   right-wing politics this turn on there [TS]

00:34:29   but I think that's less harmful because [TS]

00:34:31   it's it's you know mixed up everything [TS]

00:34:32   else so I have trouble recommending that [TS]

00:34:35   young people start their life in cars [TS]

00:34:39   reading a magazine that assumes the only [TS]

00:34:41   people who ever be into cars are men [TS]

00:34:43   because that's not healthy for anybody [TS]

00:34:44   involved so I would say the YouTube has [TS]

00:34:47   a higher chance of being sort of more [TS]

00:34:51   welcoming at least the YouTube channels [TS]

00:34:53   I've seen there are many things to not [TS]

00:34:54   recommend them and there are of course [TS]

00:34:55   you know YouTube channels with terrible [TS]

00:34:58   bro people saying terrible Brobee things [TS]

00:35:00   what else is new it's the Internet but [TS]

00:35:03   hey I think kids are more likely to get [TS]

00:35:06   into that then you know paper magazines [TS]

00:35:08   which come on who reads those and B I [TS]

00:35:11   think you might have a better chance of [TS]

00:35:14   steering your kid towards a more [TS]

00:35:19   inclusive YouTube channel because [TS]

00:35:22   honestly I don't know of any magazines [TS]

00:35:23   that aren't if a car and driver is is [TS]

00:35:25   probably the best one automobile [TS]

00:35:27   is fairly good too but just all those [TS]

00:35:30   carvings just assume you are a guy [TS]

00:35:33   reading a car magazine and they half the [TS]

00:35:35   time they don't even know they're [TS]

00:35:36   assuming it and it's it's not it's not a [TS]

00:35:39   good look and it's not something that I [TS]

00:35:40   would recommend a young person get into [TS]

00:35:42   because while I perpetuate that let me [TS]

00:35:45   just put out a call that if you are [TS]

00:35:47   listening to this and you know of a [TS]

00:35:49   YouTube channel hosted by a woman that's [TS]

00:35:52   really good that's about cars or know an [TS]

00:35:54   author that's you know either a blogger [TS]

00:35:56   or you know a particular author to look [TS]

00:35:58   at any of these car magazines that's a [TS]

00:35:59   woman I would love to know that because [TS]

00:36:00   I certainly only hear dudes of various [TS]

00:36:03   bro eNOS talking about cars I'd love to [TS]

00:36:05   hear you know a different perspective on [TS]

00:36:06   that so or maybe not even a woman just a [TS]

00:36:08   different perspective I mean to find [TS]

00:36:10   that however you'd like but I'd love to [TS]

00:36:12   hear it so feel free to tweet at me and [TS]

00:36:14   let me know and by the way Jeremy Jeremy [TS]

00:36:16   didn't say whether his kid was girl or [TS]

00:36:18   boy and I don't think it matters like [TS]

00:36:20   you shouldn't if your if your kid is [TS]

00:36:21   like a little boy who's super into cars [TS]

00:36:23   he shouldn't be reading a magazine that [TS]

00:36:25   assumes everybody who reading it as a [TS]

00:36:27   dude either like that's it's not there's [TS]

00:36:29   nothing to do with the gender of the [TS]

00:36:30   child or anything like that it's just [TS]

00:36:31   like what I'm getting is print is old [TS]

00:36:34   and it is mostly dominated by old people [TS]

00:36:36   with old opinions and even has new [TS]

00:36:38   writers have come in and I think I made [TS]

00:36:39   a tweet a couple years ago to the effect [TS]

00:36:41   that you could see the change over on [TS]

00:36:42   the writing staff of Car and Driver when [TS]

00:36:44   they started making a jokes and the [TS]

00:36:46   captions are their images that reference [TS]

00:36:47   things like Star Trek or you wouldn't [TS]

00:36:49   have seen that when like Brock Yates was [TS]

00:36:51   still writing or whatever like there is [TS]

00:36:52   a changing of the guard but it's still [TS]

00:36:54   it's still the the boys club and there's [TS]

00:36:57   no reason it should be there's nothing [TS]

00:36:58   there's nothing gendered about cars [TS]

00:36:59   right so that's disappointing it in [TS]

00:37:02   YouTube I feel like is slightly better [TS]

00:37:04   it's also worse like you know the [TS]

00:37:06   equivalent of the bikini girls on the [TS]

00:37:07   hoods those YouTube channels totally [TS]

00:37:09   exist to write so you know the Internet [TS]

00:37:12   is a big place so be careful all right [TS]

00:37:15   and finally from Jeff e sue ECC Ram [TS]

00:37:18   seems to make sense for high stakes [TS]

00:37:20   contexts like Finance space like space [TS]

00:37:23   travel etc what practical effects do you [TS]

00:37:26   expect it to have on it on a Mac have [TS]

00:37:28   you ever noticed a flip bit on your [TS]

00:37:30   machine do you just find it cool as a [TS]

00:37:32   nerd and or want it for peace of mind so [TS]

00:37:35   John can you kind of do a recap for us [TS]

00:37:37   and what ECC Ram is why this is relevant [TS]

00:37:39   now and then [TS]

00:37:40   answered that a couple pass shows we had [TS]

00:37:44   debates about importance names for [TS]

00:37:47   error-correcting where if they're you [TS]

00:37:49   know they send the information from RAM [TS]

00:37:50   but they also have a bit to check [TS]

00:37:52   whether the information you're getting [TS]

00:37:53   is accurately represented you think it [TS]

00:37:54   was like a parity bit or whatever but I [TS]

00:37:56   think it's more complicated than that [TS]

00:37:57   these days but anyway usually they have [TS]

00:37:59   the bit to recover the ability to [TS]

00:38:01   recover from small errors like a one bit [TS]

00:38:03   error they can correct that on the fly [TS]

00:38:05   because they know which bit is often [TS]

00:38:07   what it should be instead and so as you [TS]

00:38:09   know what would have been some bad data [TS]

00:38:12   coming out of RAM gets two corrected to [TS]

00:38:13   the right data [TS]

00:38:15   why would bad data come out of RAM [TS]

00:38:17   that's the question about what what [TS]

00:38:19   errors are you correcting who cares if [TS]

00:38:21   you have error correcting ability in [TS]

00:38:22   your RAM chips Ram chips don't make any [TS]

00:38:24   many errors they're solid-state [TS]

00:38:26   components everything is perfect about [TS]

00:38:27   them right unfortunately everything in [TS]

00:38:29   the world digital is under the covers [TS]

00:38:31   analog until you get down to the quantum [TS]

00:38:33   level but we're not going to get into [TS]

00:38:34   that I have limits somewhere yeah so the [TS]

00:38:38   question is how often these errors come [TS]

00:38:41   up and last time we talked about this we [TS]

00:38:42   cited a bunch of studies we'll put two [TS]

00:38:44   links into the show notes about two semi [TS]

00:38:47   recent ones one of them was a 2009 study [TS]

00:38:50   that was supposedly saying that the [TS]

00:38:52   error rates in RAM are much higher than [TS]

00:38:54   it previously measured something like 25 [TS]

00:38:59   to 70,000 errors per billion device [TS]

00:39:02   hours per megabit with errors on more [TS]

00:39:05   than 8% of dims and there's an IBM study [TS]

00:39:08   in the 90s looking at like the causes of [TS]

00:39:11   this like you know radiation from space [TS]

00:39:13   essentially flipping your bits assuming [TS]

00:39:15   you're not in something that is shielded [TS]

00:39:17   from cosmic rays producing one error per [TS]

00:39:22   256 megabytes of RAM per month and you [TS]

00:39:26   know you can sell it from the 90s [TS]

00:39:27   because it talked about too much you [TS]

00:39:28   know so one error per two hundred [TS]

00:39:29   physics megawatts a ram per month that's [TS]

00:39:31   not a small number if we have four gigs [TS]

00:39:32   of RAM right or 16 gigs or whatever you [TS]

00:39:36   have errors happen now the question is [TS]

00:39:39   alright so who care who care is a bit is [TS]

00:39:41   flipped what does that manifest in some [TS]

00:39:43   way if you got unlucky [TS]

00:39:44   it could take your whole computer down [TS]

00:39:45   but chances are good nothing will happen [TS]

00:39:48   because that bit didn't matter like [TS]

00:39:50   there are so many bits that just don't [TS]

00:39:51   matter not even that it gets corrupted [TS]

00:39:53   and ends up in the [TS]

00:39:53   maybe that bit just didn't matter at all [TS]

00:39:56   or you know it changed something [TS]

00:39:58   it changed the the color of a pixel in a [TS]

00:40:02   way that you couldn't detect or it just [TS]

00:40:04   ended up in some garbage data at the end [TS]

00:40:06   of you know at the end of some buffer [TS]

00:40:09   that never got reached like it maybe it [TS]

00:40:11   just doesn't matter it came out of RAM [TS]

00:40:12   and I got over and with something else [TS]

00:40:13   but every once in a while it does matter [TS]

00:40:15   and the reason people use ECC is because [TS]

00:40:17   they think you know that for the small [TS]

00:40:19   incremental cost of having ECC Ram maybe [TS]

00:40:22   it saves you from four you know four [TS]

00:40:24   computers that run a really long time [TS]

00:40:25   and uptime is important and correctness [TS]

00:40:28   is important this is the the best we [TS]

00:40:30   have to get a little bit more safety for [TS]

00:40:32   not that much more cost and that's why [TS]

00:40:36   servers use it and that's why fancy [TS]

00:40:38   high-end desktop so server hardware use [TS]

00:40:40   it and I think a lot of it for nerds [TS]

00:40:43   like us is like well it doesn't cost [TS]

00:40:44   that much more and it makes us not [TS]

00:40:46   anymore reliable so let's do it but you [TS]

00:40:50   know how it's not like a light comes on [TS]

00:40:53   when it tells you just saved you from [TS]

00:40:54   something because kind of like the Big [TS]

00:40:56   Sky theory in aviation the big RAM [TS]

00:40:58   theory is the chances of one of those [TS]

00:41:01   bit flips actually affecting something [TS]

00:41:03   you do in a way that you noticed is [TS]

00:41:05   actually pretty low but it just you know [TS]

00:41:07   it doesn't make us feel better so the [TS]

00:41:09   answer's no there's no reason basically [TS]

00:41:10   no I mean the reason is that it does [TS]

00:41:13   improve things and it doesn't cost that [TS]

00:41:14   much more if it was seven times the cost [TS]

00:41:16   it would be ridiculous but just a little [TS]

00:41:19   bit more and so you're like yeah why not [TS]

00:41:21   why not do that for a little bit more [TS]

00:41:23   also and I this could just be terrible [TS]

00:41:26   anok data you know but just anecdotally [TS]

00:41:29   my Mac Pros have been the most stable [TS]

00:41:32   solid machines I've owned and I've gone [TS]

00:41:34   I've used laptops full time I've used an [TS]

00:41:37   iMac full time and I've used Mac Pro's [TS]

00:41:39   full time and it's just it's very very [TS]

00:41:41   different the Mac pros were always the [TS]

00:41:43   most stable machines by far you didn't [TS]

00:41:45   keep the trashcans long enough for your [TS]

00:41:46   GPUs to overheat so I didn't use GPUs [TS]

00:41:49   heavily enough yeah when I turn me like [TS]

00:41:51   you know eight or nine months I had one [TS]

00:41:52   it was rock-solid we were sponsored this [TS]

00:41:56   week by Backblaze unlimited cloud backup [TS]

00:41:59   for Macs and PCs for just $5 a month [TS]

00:42:01   visit Backblaze comm slash ATP to get a [TS]

00:42:04   15-day free trial [TS]

00:42:06   you need online backup because if you [TS]

00:42:09   are only backed up to say a hard drive [TS]

00:42:11   next to your computer in your office to [TS]

00:42:12   your house you aren't protected from [TS]

00:42:14   things like fire floods theft power [TS]

00:42:17   surges or just human errors that could [TS]

00:42:19   accidentally wipe the data on that hard [TS]

00:42:21   drive or damage that hard drive in [TS]

00:42:23   addition to the one in your computer [TS]

00:42:24   with cloud backup you have a wonderful [TS]

00:42:26   failsafe option that can cover all sorts [TS]

00:42:28   of different risks that a local backup [TS]

00:42:30   can't you also have very convenient [TS]

00:42:32   feature so for instance if you have a [TS]

00:42:34   cloud backup you can do things like [TS]

00:42:35   restore a file from your home computer [TS]

00:42:38   onto a laptop when you're on vacation if [TS]

00:42:40   you if you need to work on that file you [TS]

00:42:42   forgot to bring it with you you can also [TS]

00:42:43   do the same thing from their mobile app [TS]

00:42:45   right onto your phone so if you're on [TS]

00:42:47   your phone and need to get a file from [TS]

00:42:48   your home computer you can just restore [TS]

00:42:50   it with their app for ios and android [TS]

00:42:52   right onto your phone it's very very [TS]

00:42:54   convenient if you need to do a whole [TS]

00:42:56   system restore if you lose all your data [TS]

00:42:57   you need to actually restore from the [TS]

00:42:59   cloud you can use their website to [TS]

00:43:00   download it immediately or you can have [TS]

00:43:02   them overnight you a hard drive via [TS]

00:43:04   FedEx and if you return the hard drive [TS]

00:43:06   back to them when you're done you get a [TS]

00:43:07   full refund it's a win-win Backblaze has [TS]

00:43:10   restored over 20 billion files for their [TS]

00:43:12   customers and all this is available for [TS]

00:43:15   just $5 a month per computer with [TS]

00:43:18   unlimited space unlimited bandwidth [TS]

00:43:20   unlimited usage $5 a month per computer [TS]

00:43:24   that's it [TS]

00:43:25   there's no gimmicks there's no add-ons [TS]

00:43:26   that's all there is it's all you need to [TS]

00:43:29   pay it is wonderful I've used it for [TS]

00:43:31   years now since before they were a [TS]

00:43:32   sponsor I pay for it like everyone else [TS]

00:43:35   and it is great if you won't have cloud [TS]

00:43:37   backup yet I highly highly urge you you [TS]

00:43:40   really should have cloud backup for your [TS]

00:43:42   own safety and if you're gonna get cloud [TS]

00:43:44   backup I recommend Backblaze it is the [TS]

00:43:45   best one I've tried and I've tried them [TS]

00:43:47   all so check it out today Backblaze comm [TS]

00:43:49   /a TP start today really Backblaze calm [TS]

00:43:54   slash a TP for the best cloud backup [TS]

00:43:57   service five bucks a month unlimited [TS]

00:43:58   space thank you so much to back place [TS]

00:44:00   for sponsoring our show I have questions [TS]

00:44:06   about the iMac pros / Mac Pro as someone [TS]

00:44:10   who used to know the ins and outs of [TS]

00:44:12   what the current processors were in GPUs [TS]

00:44:14   and things of that nature like 20 years [TS]

00:44:16   ago when I was building my own pcs I [TS]

00:44:18   have not kept [TS]

00:44:19   up in a long time and it seems like and [TS]

00:44:23   I might even get this backwards so jump [TS]

00:44:25   in and correct me but it seems like [TS]

00:44:26   everyone is really perturbed that the [TS]

00:44:29   iMac Pro is only coming with an AMD [TS]

00:44:31   graphics card and apparently it's bit [TS]

00:44:34   like nvidia or bust in the graphics card [TS]

00:44:37   department can one of you guys explain [TS]

00:44:39   to me like a do I even have that right [TS]

00:44:41   be why and see then why isn't Apple [TS]

00:44:46   offering Nvidia cards and why are they [TS]

00:44:49   so committed to AMD or gear or at least [TS]

00:44:52   what's your best guess if nothing else [TS]

00:44:53   John do you want to kind of talk me [TS]

00:44:55   through this the Nvidia thing we talked [TS]

00:44:58   about this before about who at various [TS]

00:45:02   times in our life using computers has [TS]

00:45:04   been the GPU performance King you know [TS]

00:45:07   like starting from I guess the voodoo3 [TS]

00:45:09   Hayes I remember those days [TS]

00:45:12   3d effects and you know anyway did you [TS]

00:45:15   did that Mac I think we talked about [TS]

00:45:17   this months and months ago but to the [TS]

00:45:19   Mac ever have the thing where you had a [TS]

00:45:21   little stubby VGA cable to connect the [TS]

00:45:22   2d card to the 3d card do you know what [TS]

00:45:25   I'm talking about that's pretty sure it [TS]

00:45:26   did not ever have anything like that the [TS]

00:45:28   Mac never had gaming or VGA you know [TS]

00:45:34   exactly what I'm talking about that [TS]

00:45:35   don't you mark I was like you had one of [TS]

00:45:36   these yeah we connect to your 3d effects [TS]

00:45:38   accelerator card yeah yeah those are the [TS]

00:45:41   days sorry anyway John Kerry oh yeah so [TS]

00:45:43   so you know as the market is [TS]

00:45:46   consolidated it's settled down in the [TS]

00:45:48   latter years as being a TI versus Nvidia [TS]

00:45:52   and occasionally they would swap places [TS]

00:45:54   of what generation of card you know does [TS]

00:45:56   they would realize their architectures [TS]

00:45:58   and then they would have multiple cards [TS]

00:45:59   and you'd have overclocked cards and [TS]

00:46:01   stuff and then they've advised ARCA [TS]

00:46:02   anyway at various points Nvidia had the [TS]

00:46:05   fastest meaning like basically for games [TS]

00:46:07   like who can run insert hot 3d game here [TS]

00:46:11   the fastest sometimes it was Nvidia [TS]

00:46:13   sometimes it was AMD if you've looked at [TS]

00:46:17   the swings it seems that in both the [TS]

00:46:20   most recent years and Vidya has been on [TS]

00:46:22   top more but it really depends on the [TS]

00:46:24   specific application but for right now [TS]

00:46:28   and Ruby is on top in a lot of markets [TS]

00:46:30   and games I think they're on top [TS]

00:46:32   because they make a lot of cars that [TS]

00:46:34   make sacrifices in precision for the [TS]

00:46:38   purposes of performance and very often [TS]

00:46:39   ATI which is now AMD would tell you yeah [TS]

00:46:43   that's fine but if you want to do real [TS]

00:46:44   serious work with like a program that [TS]

00:46:47   requires higher precision that AMD is [TS]

00:46:48   better or whatever but also because [TS]

00:46:51   nvidia and AMD have chosen different [TS]

00:46:53   platforms for compute on GPUs and [TS]

00:46:56   Nvidia's the one that they're what is [TS]

00:46:59   there is a CUDA da cunha yeah is right [TS]

00:47:02   now more popular and so we had someone [TS]

00:47:04   actually write in to us about this this [TS]

00:47:07   is Daniel who said in addition to mvu [TS]

00:47:08   being faster there's lots of software [TS]

00:47:10   now that uses GPU acceleration but only [TS]

00:47:12   nvidia so their application software [TS]

00:47:15   written it's accelerated for GPUs but [TS]

00:47:18   literally only accelerated by the NVIDIA [TS]

00:47:19   GPUs the examples gives us redshift and [TS]

00:47:22   my and 3d new plugins for new kiddie and [TS]

00:47:25   go ghosts on the 2d side so part of it [TS]

00:47:28   is like just market success that Nvidia [TS]

00:47:31   was able to convince software makers of [TS]

00:47:32   these big expensive for our obligations [TS]

00:47:34   to write their software to only be [TS]

00:47:36   accelerated by Nvidia cards so that [TS]

00:47:39   forget about who's faster forever who's [TS]

00:47:40   bet has better cards or whatever if it [TS]

00:47:42   literally won't work with AMD graphics [TS]

00:47:44   cards [TS]

00:47:46   that's bad like it'll you know but to [TS]

00:47:47   run in an accelerated mode and then [TS]

00:47:49   secondarily if you're into games there [TS]

00:47:51   are lots of other applications chances [TS]

00:47:53   are that right now and video sells the [TS]

00:47:55   absolute fastest card they'll run [TS]

00:47:57   whatever your GPU thing is the fastest [TS]

00:47:59   that's why we had the question a while [TS]

00:48:01   back was saying if the Mac proto's and [TS]

00:48:02   support Nvidia is it a failure or [TS]

00:48:03   whatever I don't think it is for the [TS]

00:48:06   most part and you know if you have to [TS]

00:48:10   use one of the application there's only [TS]

00:48:11   so acceleration video chance is good you [TS]

00:48:13   haven't had a Mac in a long time because [TS]

00:48:15   for whatever reason I'm not sure what [TS]

00:48:17   the reason is but for whatever reason [TS]

00:48:18   Mac's have not shipped with NVIDIA GPUs [TS]

00:48:21   either standard or optional for a long [TS]

00:48:24   time now so it's not as if people are [TS]

00:48:26   out there using Mac's with Nvidia [TS]

00:48:28   graphics card waiting to upgrade all [TS]

00:48:30   these people are using these programs [TS]

00:48:31   presumably are already using pcs anyway [TS]

00:48:34   that's why I think people are concerned [TS]

00:48:37   about the Nvidia situation because part [TS]

00:48:39   of the promise of the Mac Pro is it's a [TS]

00:48:41   modular system and it's upgradable but [TS]

00:48:43   how upgradable is it really if you can [TS]

00:48:46   you can only ever put in new and the [TS]

00:48:48   graphics cards I mean that's great like [TS]

00:48:50   lets you extend life in the machine like [TS]

00:48:52   we said before but there was a time that [TS]

00:48:55   mitts on Mac users may remember when you [TS]

00:48:57   could buy a Mac like the one sitting [TS]

00:48:59   next to me right now they could run [TS]

00:49:01   cards from both of those manufacturers [TS]

00:49:03   and that time was good and we would like [TS]

00:49:05   that harm to return yeah I think I mean [TS]

00:49:08   some other angles to consider I mean so [TS]

00:49:09   first of all the the explanation of why [TS]

00:49:11   we have not seen any new Macs with [TS]

00:49:15   NVIDIA GPUs in something like three or [TS]

00:49:18   four years is possibly related to there [TS]

00:49:22   was a massive series of NVIDIA GPU [TS]

00:49:24   failures and MacBook Pros we heard [TS]

00:49:27   rumblings here and there from various [TS]

00:49:28   uncredible sources that like there might [TS]

00:49:31   be some kind of big political rift with [TS]

00:49:32   that between Apple and NVIDIA from that [TS]

00:49:35   time but it does certainly seem like [TS]

00:49:38   there is definitely like it is a choice [TS]

00:49:41   that Apple is making not to not to ship [TS]

00:49:44   an NVIDIA GPUs in all of their computers [TS]

00:49:47   since a few years ago it is not just [TS]

00:49:50   coincidence and on that issue though on [TS]

00:49:52   it being a choice which again I have [TS]

00:49:54   heard as well the weird part about it is [TS]

00:49:56   that modern Apple especially has always [TS]

00:50:00   been really enthusiastic but always [TS]

00:50:02   having two suppliers for everything that [TS]

00:50:04   it does like you know even just like [TS]

00:50:06   because if they get themselves in [TS]

00:50:08   situation when there's one they get into [TS]

00:50:09   something to a Qualcomm situation and [TS]

00:50:11   they're just like they need someone to [TS]

00:50:13   play off of but everything the RAM who's [TS]

00:50:15   manufacturing their systems on a chip [TS]

00:50:16   like SSDs screens best case Apple wants [TS]

00:50:20   to have two sources not just for [TS]

00:50:22   redundancy but so that you don't become [TS]

00:50:25   under the thumb of one like you could be [TS]

00:50:26   under the thumb of Qualcomm it's like [TS]

00:50:28   who else you gonna go to no one else can [TS]

00:50:29   make your radio chips hahaha like so it [TS]

00:50:32   would be who Happel to go to both of [TS]

00:50:35   them and play them off each other who [TS]

00:50:36   knows maybe that's exactly what they're [TS]

00:50:37   doing in anybody it just keeps losing [TS]

00:50:38   losing the contract but from the outside [TS]

00:50:40   it just seems like they are now a single [TS]

00:50:44   single vendor source for their GPUs and [TS]

00:50:46   that can't be healthy I mean and maybe [TS]

00:50:48   the long-term plan is gonna make its own [TS]

00:50:50   GPUs because it's a core part of their [TS]

00:50:52   business and they kind of have been [TS]

00:50:53   doing that on the you know the portable [TS]

00:50:55   side was it business the first one [TS]

00:50:56   that's all their own GPU with no [TS]

00:50:59   imagination tech I have [TS]

00:51:00   leave so yeah but they haven't done that [TS]

00:51:02   on the Mac and they probably won't pick [TS]

00:51:03   us for all the reasons that we've [TS]

00:51:04   discussed before about investment in the [TS]

00:51:05   Mac but it just it just still seems [TS]

00:51:07   weird to me that it seems it's a much [TS]

00:51:09   more natural fit for apples business [TS]

00:51:11   practices to be supporting both but they [TS]

00:51:12   haven't recently well I think there's [TS]

00:51:14   there's a couple angles here I mean [TS]

00:51:15   number one like you might be right like [TS]

00:51:17   AMD just might be winning all these bids [TS]

00:51:18   because it certainly seems clear that [TS]

00:51:21   Apple has a pretty good relationship [TS]

00:51:23   with AMD and for things like if you look [TS]

00:51:25   at the 2013 trash trashcan Mac Pro those [TS]

00:51:28   were like total custom GPUs like just [TS]

00:51:31   for that that AMD made for made you know [TS]

00:51:33   to add apples order so like there's [TS]

00:51:36   clearly like a lot of a good [TS]

00:51:37   relationship there where like AMD will [TS]

00:51:39   probably make Apple pretty much whatever [TS]

00:51:41   they asked for which is and and the the [TS]

00:51:44   pricing that they give Apple appears to [TS]

00:51:46   be pretty good like if you look at the [TS]

00:51:48   workstation GPU pricing that that AMD [TS]

00:51:50   charges and then you look at what Apple [TS]

00:51:52   gives you in like the stock [TS]

00:51:54   configuration of the Mac Pro and the [TS]

00:51:56   iMac Pro it does seem like AMD is giving [TS]

00:51:59   Apple a pretty good deal so it could [TS]

00:52:00   just be that but they're you're you're [TS]

00:52:02   right that Apple does have two suppliers [TS]

00:52:04   for a lot of things one of the big ones [TS]

00:52:06   that they don't is Intel for their CPUs [TS]

00:52:09   and I may be you know ironically the the [TS]

00:52:14   winner of that bid otherwise would be [TS]

00:52:15   AMD but but you know maybe they have a [TS]

00:52:19   similar relationship with AMD on the GPU [TS]

00:52:23   side that they have with Intel on the [TS]

00:52:25   CPU side which is kind of this like you [TS]

00:52:28   know assured exclusivity and it's [TS]

00:52:30   changed for their good relationship with [TS]

00:52:32   AMD and you know the difference is that [TS]

00:52:34   Intel can give them the very best chips [TS]

00:52:36   of that kind in the world or at AMD at [TS]

00:52:38   various times cannot and although this [TS]

00:52:40   also brings in a topic they kept getting [TS]

00:52:42   pushed down in the show notes but the [TS]

00:52:43   several weeks ago or months ago deal [TS]

00:52:45   where Intel is bundling AMD GPUs and [TS]

00:52:49   sort of like not on the same die but [TS]

00:52:51   like in the same package yeah yeah there [TS]

00:52:52   and so that's an interesting synergy [TS]

00:52:54   between apples to favored vendors and [TS]

00:52:56   and you know Intel like it makes some [TS]

00:52:59   sense to me that was going with Intel [TS]

00:53:00   that if am you know there's there's that [TS]

00:53:02   relationship and there's the you know [TS]

00:53:04   IBM even more so than AMD has proven [TS]

00:53:07   that they will make one-off custom chips [TS]

00:53:08   for Apple like in the MacBook Air and [TS]

00:53:09   the back in the old days and it's a lot [TS]

00:53:12   of speculation that [TS]

00:53:14   the reason Intelli put so much work into [TS]

00:53:16   its internal GPUs with the embedded dram [TS]

00:53:19   and all that stuff is because that's [TS]

00:53:20   what Apple wanted them to do so [TS]

00:53:22   I'm sure Apple likes your relationship [TS]

00:53:24   where they have a big say in what [TS]

00:53:25   products get generated and honestly if [TS]

00:53:29   the the competitor Intel is not [TS]

00:53:31   particularly competitive and we get back [TS]

00:53:34   to again Apple probably wants to just [TS]

00:53:35   make its own chips if it ever if it ever [TS]

00:53:37   comes to that but the difference in that [TS]

00:53:40   scenario is there is no software that [TS]

00:53:43   only runs accelerated on the MDD PMD [TS]

00:53:47   CPUs right [TS]

00:53:48   like it's not it's not the Nvidia [TS]

00:53:50   situation where there's a whole classes [TS]

00:53:51   of software that are written to CUDA and [TS]

00:53:54   and and you know overall like there is a [TS]

00:53:57   huge difference in the results here [TS]

00:53:58   because you know as you as you briefly [TS]

00:53:59   alluded to like Intel if you are Intel [TS]

00:54:02   exclusive for your PC CPUs you're fine [TS]

00:54:05   because the vast majority of the time [TS]

00:54:08   Intel is the leader in that race usually [TS]

00:54:11   by a pretty big margin AMD CPU business [TS]

00:54:14   has been second run basically sends like [TS]

00:54:16   the Pentium for like it had a good run [TS]

00:54:19   there for a little while where it was [TS]

00:54:20   king but then it wasn't so if if it was [TS]

00:54:23   the other way around if Apple had had [TS]

00:54:25   this great relationship with AMD for the [TS]

00:54:27   CPUs and would never used Intel CPUs [TS]

00:54:30   they'd have a pretty big problem that [TS]

00:54:33   they used wouldn't be very competitive a [TS]

00:54:34   lot of the time and the problem is they [TS]

00:54:36   now have that problem on the GPU side [TS]

00:54:39   run on the GPU side I think they do ok [TS]

00:54:41   with power per watt but they don't have [TS]

00:54:44   the the sheer performance edge that they [TS]

00:54:47   that they would have if NVIDIA was their [TS]

00:54:50   only supplier or if they would use both [TS]

00:54:52   like they used to you know it used to be [TS]

00:54:53   that like you know every generation of [TS]

00:54:55   like a Mac or a MacBook Pro like it they [TS]

00:54:58   would like alternate between which [TS]

00:54:59   vendor they were supplying just whoever [TS]

00:55:00   had like the most compelling one that [TS]

00:55:02   they could get in a volume or whatever [TS]

00:55:04   else like but by going seemingly am the [TS]

00:55:07   only for GPUs for the least the last few [TS]

00:55:09   years I think it is really starting to [TS]

00:55:11   hurt them especially at the high end [TS]

00:55:13   I've heard from so many people who see [TS]

00:55:16   the news about the iMac Pro or the Mac [TS]

00:55:19   Pro and just write it off as sorry we [TS]

00:55:22   can't do that because it doesn't support [TS]

00:55:23   CUDA and the only thing that that my [TS]

00:55:27   be an escape valve here is external GPU [TS]

00:55:31   support you know I think with [TS]

00:55:33   Thunderbolt 3 now supporting external [TS]

00:55:36   GPU boxes that might be their answer [TS]

00:55:38   like it might it might it might be like [TS]

00:55:40   we're gonna keep using AMD for our main [TS]

00:55:42   GPUs but if you're a pro customer and [TS]

00:55:44   you want a CUDA card for your work maybe [TS]

00:55:47   putting it in a thunderbolt chassis is [TS]

00:55:50   close enough the benchmarks still [TS]

00:55:53   especially for these applications that [TS]

00:55:54   need this like that's where the [TS]

00:55:56   bandwidth actually does come in doesn't [TS]

00:55:57   come in in games probably if you're just [TS]

00:55:59   interested in games you can probably get [TS]

00:56:00   away with any GPU but for all these [TS]

00:56:03   fancy computational things actually send [TS]

00:56:05   a lot of data back and forth Thunderbolt [TS]

00:56:07   isn't you know it's not even close to [TS]

00:56:09   the bandwidth of an internal card [TS]

00:56:11   I think bare feets also has done [TS]

00:56:12   benchmarks with that to like you know [TS]

00:56:14   let's try a MacBook Pro with an e GPU [TS]

00:56:17   versus the iMac pro with this internal [TS]

00:56:19   versus a good old cheese grater with [TS]

00:56:22   some $900 Nvidia graphic card shoved [TS]

00:56:25   into this ancient internals from 20 L 10 [TS]

00:56:27   or 11 and the stupid cheese grater wins [TS]

00:56:30   every time because it's an internal GPU [TS]

00:56:32   with more bandwidth than everybody else [TS]

00:56:33   and it's got the fastest the latest card [TS]

00:56:36   from Nvidia and so like I guess I've [TS]

00:56:38   been the person originally asked the [TS]

00:56:39   question would the Mac probably fail [TS]

00:56:40   product I don't think so I mean it's [TS]

00:56:43   silly that Apple won't support it if [TS]

00:56:45   it's like some weird political reason or [TS]

00:56:46   whatever but whatever you know if you [TS]

00:56:49   buy a computer with the fastest [TS]

00:56:51   available GPU next year it's not the [TS]

00:56:54   fastest GPU anymore and so if you just [TS]

00:56:56   pretend every Mac Pro you're buying is [TS]

00:56:57   already year old as long as you can [TS]

00:56:59   either a upgrade it so that every single [TS]

00:57:02   year you can buy a faster GPU or be that [TS]

00:57:05   Apple revises it and so every year if [TS]

00:57:08   you bought a new one it has a faster GPU [TS]

00:57:10   in it you like the worst situation is [TS]

00:57:11   they they put it out with a competitive [TS]

00:57:13   pretty fast GPU that may actually by the [TS]

00:57:15   way be faster in your particular thing [TS]

00:57:17   because if you're not running games and [TS]

00:57:18   you're not running a CUDA acceleration [TS]

00:57:20   sometimes the AMD GPU is the fastest [TS]

00:57:22   really depends on what you're doing but [TS]

00:57:24   the trick is you need some way to stay [TS]

00:57:26   on that performance path the fact you [TS]

00:57:28   can't have the fastest one then just [TS]

00:57:30   never offer another GPU for three years [TS]

00:57:32   and not have it be upgradable so the [TS]

00:57:34   people need some way to every year reap [TS]

00:57:36   the benefits of the embarrassing [TS]

00:57:37   parallelism [TS]

00:57:38   of the graphics world and that's that's [TS]

00:57:41   what the Mac Pro has to deliver if you [TS]

00:57:43   can't deliver nvidia that's a bummer for [TS]

00:57:46   some people but what it has to deliver [TS]

00:57:48   is the ability to get back on the GPU [TS]

00:57:51   train you can put in the all aboard [TS]

00:57:55   screen from crazy train right here Marco [TS]

00:57:57   I was going to put on back on the train [TS]

00:58:04   by fish no I do not approve of that [TS]

00:58:13   crazy train every podcast needs a viper [TS]

00:58:16   slap we are brought to you this week by [TS]

00:58:22   Squarespace start building your website [TS]

00:58:24   today at squarespace.com and enter offer [TS]

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00:58:29   your next move with a beautiful website [TS]

00:58:31   from Squarespace now many of our [TS]

00:58:33   listeners myself included know how to [TS]

00:58:35   make websites ourself without using [TS]

00:58:38   Squarespace we know how to like get a [TS]

00:58:40   server set up and put a CMS on there or [TS]

00:58:43   build our own CMS from scratch but then [TS]

00:58:45   we also for honest with ourselves we [TS]

00:58:47   know that that never takes as fast as we [TS]

00:58:49   want it to and there's always additional [TS]

00:58:51   overhead to managing it that we probably [TS]

00:58:53   shouldn't need to worry about things [TS]

00:58:55   like security updates and patches and [TS]

00:58:57   backups and caching and keeping it up [TS]

00:59:00   and if we get you know a prominent link [TS]

00:59:01   from somewhere and everything else and [TS]

00:59:03   the reality is with Squarespace you [TS]

00:59:06   don't have to worry about any of that [TS]

00:59:07   and that's probably a better use of your [TS]

00:59:09   time is to just go to Squarespace make [TS]

00:59:12   your website for your next podcast or [TS]

00:59:14   your next blog or your next portfolio or [TS]

00:59:17   a store or just a website just for fun [TS]

00:59:19   to show off so if you what you like or [TS]

00:59:21   what your business is make that website [TS]

00:59:23   with Squarespace instead of doing it [TS]

00:59:25   yourself through any other kind of means [TS]

00:59:26   because pretty much everything else [TS]

00:59:27   honestly is not a good use of your time [TS]

00:59:29   you should be focused on your business [TS]

00:59:31   or your project or your hobby instead of [TS]

00:59:34   worrying about your web hosting and [TS]

00:59:35   Squarespace give you that luxury [TS]

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00:59:44   of any size they take care of patching [TS]

00:59:47   and backups and security and caching and [TS]

00:59:49   everything you don't worry about any of [TS]

00:59:51   that all you do is focus on your project [TS]

00:59:52   let them worry about your website start [TS]

00:59:54   your free trial site today at [TS]

00:59:55   squarespace.com when you decide to sign [TS]

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00:59:59   get 10 [TS]

00:59:59   get 10 [TS]

02:00:03   like I I'm not afraid if I'm talking to [TS]

02:00:07   my Apple I'm not afraid of like you know [TS]

02:00:10   if I say the wrong thing or if I or [TS]

02:00:12   afterwards if I'm on a podcast and I say [TS]

02:00:13   the wrong thing like are they gonna cut [TS]

02:00:16   off you know my PR accent of something [TS]

02:00:18   because until this moment I didn't have [TS]

02:00:20   PR accident a PR [TS]

02:00:22   I have nothing to lose and also [TS]

02:00:25   everything in my job everything in my [TS]

02:00:27   career my life to this point has not [TS]

02:00:29   needed PR access and so like it's one [TS]

02:00:32   thing like if I was like the verge and I [TS]

02:00:34   got cut off from PR that's a much bigger [TS]

02:00:36   problem for me to get cut off from PR I [TS]

02:00:39   don't it doesn't really hurt me much and [TS]

02:00:41   so I'm not afraid to be honest and to [TS]

02:00:45   say when things are bad and and and most [TS]

02:00:48   good journalists you know they try to [TS]

02:00:49   maintain that same balance even even if [TS]

02:00:51   their access does depend on that because [TS]

02:00:52   you know even if their access does or [TS]

02:00:55   does not their credibility depends on [TS]

02:00:56   them being balanced and being fair and [TS]

02:00:59   being willing to criticize when it's [TS]