The Accidental Tech Podcast

252: Any Day Could Be Mac Pro Day


00:00:00   I've got a problem oh yeah having [TS]

00:00:02   uncomfortable thoughts about jeep [TS]

00:00:04   wranglers oh you just need to come up [TS]

00:00:07   here where it's cold and it'll convince [TS]

00:00:09   you not to buy he got only half a car [TS]

00:00:11   it's like thirty degrees here and [TS]

00:00:13   snowing right now I don't wanna hear [TS]

00:00:14   your lip about how we don't have winter [TS]

00:00:15   you just want to be driving around with [TS]

00:00:17   no roof and no doors no roof no doors no [TS]

00:00:19   stability no quality no safety yeah [TS]

00:00:22   definitely no safety it's got a roll [TS]

00:00:25   cage for chrissakes how you gonna tell [TS]

00:00:26   me no safe yeah so if you get t-boned in [TS]

00:00:29   that I'm sure the roll cage will save [TS]

00:00:31   you the doors well oh wait yeah there's [TS]

00:00:35   a reason they had to add a roll cage [TS]

00:00:36   because it rolls over if you like [TS]

00:00:37   breathe on funny oh come on that's what [TS]

00:00:40   stability controls for this computer [TS]

00:00:42   solve us from physics anyway I want it I [TS]

00:00:45   think I want a Wrangler and that's [TS]

00:00:47   probably a problem nate'd let her go far [TS]

00:00:49   so save me for myself of all the [TS]

00:00:52   vehicles that you have lusted after for [TS]

00:00:54   a week here and there I think a Wrangler [TS]

00:00:57   is actually one of the less offensive [TS]

00:00:59   ones it's pretty offensive it's still [TS]

00:01:02   not a good vehicle it's either that or [TS]

00:01:03   go far so John what would you have me [TS]

00:01:05   have between a Wrangler and a Golf R [TS]

00:01:06   easy go hard no contest yeah if though [TS]

00:01:09   if those are your choices I'd go with [TS]

00:01:11   John on that yeah those are the only two [TS]

00:01:13   choices it's not it's not a choice at [TS]

00:01:15   all I mean a Wrangler I think is a [TS]

00:01:16   better choice than your weird Cadillac [TS]

00:01:17   rectangle thing and your SUV dreams but [TS]

00:01:20   I don't I think I think the Cadillac is [TS]

00:01:22   better than the Wrangler to like I'm [TS]

00:01:24   trying to think of a worse car and all [TS]

00:01:25   I'm coming up with is one of those giant [TS]

00:01:27   four-door luxury pickup trucks yeah well [TS]

00:01:32   but at least those have a little more [TS]

00:01:34   function than a Wrangler no it's about [TS]

00:01:36   the same they're both they're both [TS]

00:01:37   ridiculous things also if it's just that [TS]

00:01:42   reminds me demure oh did a review of [TS]

00:01:45   what was it the g65 an AMG G 65 I think [TS]

00:01:49   that's right I might have that wrong so [TS]

00:01:51   it's a twin-turbo v12 G Wagon and I [TS]

00:01:54   believe it's pronounced wagon [TS]

00:02:00   so we did a video on the guoguan and he [TS]

00:02:03   got it gets better every time I say it [TS]

00:02:04   he did a video on the guoguan and he [TS]

00:02:06   hated it okay so fine [TS]

00:02:09   all right so how about this I I don't [TS]

00:02:10   have the money for a [TS]

00:02:12   Quadrifoglio but how about that or Golf [TS]

00:02:14   R or Wrangler what would you have John [TS]

00:02:17   Quadrifoglio of the go far even though [TS]

00:02:19   it's uglier [TS]

00:02:21   I seen him in real life now I saw a [TS]

00:02:22   white one the other day and I thought of [TS]

00:02:24   you I say it does not look good in white [TS]

00:02:26   holy shit it doesn't look good in any [TS]

00:02:28   color but like this I've seen enough now [TS]

00:02:30   that I know it's not just like oh maybe [TS]

00:02:32   it looks weird in pictures but it looks [TS]

00:02:33   good in person I don't like it anywhere [TS]

00:02:34   I don't like pictures and I like it in a [TS]

00:02:36   box I don't like it with a fox John I [TS]

00:02:39   love you but you are so wrong about this [TS]

00:02:41   no I just don't like how that car looks [TS]

00:02:43   but it's a good car if for while it's [TS]

00:02:45   working [TS]

00:02:46   we don't even know maybe like the [TS]

00:02:48   reliability could be fine it's too new [TS]

00:02:49   like this is the new Alpha but we'll say [TS]

00:02:51   no it's not look here's a here's your [TS]

00:02:54   new rule if you're going to get [TS]

00:02:57   something fun and fast unless it is made [TS]

00:02:59   by a Japanese company Lisa yeah well [TS]

00:03:03   what is fun and fast it's made by [TS]

00:03:04   Japanese company that's also at least [TS]

00:03:05   mildly affordable so like the Toyota [TS]

00:03:07   burro would be it's not that it's not [TS]

00:03:11   fast you know you got a GTR which is too [TS]

00:03:13   much money and that's it that's all you [TS]

00:03:15   got maybe NSX is fun and fast it's [TS]

00:03:18   unaffordable it wasn't one of your [TS]

00:03:20   criteria just you're gonna lease it [TS]

00:03:22   you're at least least the NSX it'll be [TS]

00:03:24   come on alright let's say even though [TS]

00:03:26   this is over my budget let's say for the [TS]

00:03:28   sake of discussion 50 grand [TS]

00:03:29   so for 50 grand what do you get that's [TS]

00:03:31   Japanese fun and fast I rest my case I [TS]

00:03:36   take in Miata fast fun hard fast [TS]

00:03:40   I mean look a Wrangler is not fast [TS]

00:03:41   either but it but you you find fun for [TS]

00:03:44   other reasons [TS]

00:03:45   to me a Miata would would be a better [TS]

00:03:48   version of that and plenty fun yeah [TS]

00:03:50   that's a good midlife crisis car for you [TS]

00:03:51   after your second child is is in third [TS]

00:03:54   grade but no I'm serious so I mean my [TS]

00:03:58   options are Civic type-r which means I [TS]

00:04:01   would need to install a paper bag in the [TS]

00:04:04   car to wear over my head every time I [TS]

00:04:06   drove it no they won't let you buy one [TS]

00:04:08   you're over 25 I've heard the type r is [TS]

00:04:14   phenomenal to drive but it is so [TS]

00:04:16   unabashedly truly hideous to look at you [TS]

00:04:20   get it in black maybe try to hide all [TS]

00:04:21   the wings and ducks and scoop [TS]

00:04:23   that's the answers just take the wing [TS]

00:04:25   off like do a wing delete if you will [TS]

00:04:26   it's all wing there is do you think the [TS]

00:04:28   wing off they just left with the chassis [TS]

00:04:29   that's it the entire body that car is a [TS]

00:04:32   wing or a scoop there I would imagine [TS]

00:04:34   there must be some kind of like like you [TS]

00:04:37   know marketing differentiation here at [TS]

00:04:39   work we're like they have to make the [TS]

00:04:41   Civic are so hideous that it won't [TS]

00:04:44   detract from sales of the NSX from older [TS]

00:04:46   people with taste maybe but the regular [TS]

00:04:48   Civic is kind of gross to like I think [TS]

00:04:50   they just had a styling a styling fart [TS]

00:04:52   on this whole generation great [TS]

00:04:55   generation of civics like ever they're [TS]

00:04:57   getting great reviews people say they're [TS]

00:04:58   great cars yeah so much so that a lot of [TS]

00:05:00   the best parts of them are showing up in [TS]

00:05:03   the Accord but the styling isn't as [TS]

00:05:05   rough styling is rough [TS]

00:05:06   I mean if you think about all kidding [TS]

00:05:08   aside I mean you can get a Wrangler spec [TS]

00:05:10   to like 40 or 45 grand or something like [TS]

00:05:11   that which is truly absurd you can get a [TS]

00:05:13   Wrangler spec before I would never [TS]

00:05:15   getting into the pickup truck territory [TS]

00:05:19   Jeep Wrangler great that makes perfect [TS]

00:05:22   sense [TS]

00:05:22   good job I wonder how I thought I was [TS]

00:05:26   trying to move on now brought myself [TS]

00:05:27   right someone the Chairman even pointed [TS]

00:05:29   out like the Wrangler with like leather [TS]

00:05:30   straps for door handles but but [TS]

00:05:32   television screens on the backs of the [TS]

00:05:33   seats like that is a car that has lost [TS]

00:05:36   its way weight honest question are the [TS]

00:05:38   back seats in a Wrangler like or is [TS]

00:05:40   there actually enough depth there that [TS]

00:05:42   is where you got to keep your 17 friends [TS]

00:05:44   but you go surfing Wow they go in the [TS]

00:05:47   back seats quote-unquote their seats [TS]

00:05:50   even in the coop their seats [TS]

00:05:51   no front seats aren't seats is like you [TS]

00:05:53   know a bunch of boards with it with a [TS]

00:05:55   piece of vinyl stretched across it when [TS]

00:05:57   was the last time you were in a Wrangler [TS]

00:05:58   John I'm so over you right now so anyone [TS]

00:06:01   ever really entering or they just on it [TS]

00:06:05   why do you do this to me why do this why [TS]

00:06:09   you so mean [TS]

00:06:10   see nobody everyone see here we talk [TS]

00:06:11   about fancy snow tires on my fancy Tesla [TS]

00:06:13   but everybody wants to hear you talk [TS]

00:06:15   about your terrible car ideas of getting [TS]

00:06:16   this cheap crappy car I have like an [TS]

00:06:18   intervention of Casey Casey's like two [TS]

00:06:21   suggestible when it comes to like his he [TS]

00:06:23   has like a car shaped hole in his life [TS]

00:06:27   [Laughter] [TS]

00:06:31   maybe this will fill it and [TS]

00:06:34   and just anything like Jeep Wrangler [TS]

00:06:36   like this yeah and so I don't know just [TS]

00:06:42   like he runs across the wrong ad or the [TS]

00:06:44   wrong YouTube video and just like you [TS]

00:06:46   know I should get a Winnebago next thing [TS]

00:06:51   is gonna be like why not he just saw our [TS]

00:06:58   house to afford it my parents briefly [TS]

00:07:00   had like a little tiny which calm RV and [TS]

00:07:04   I am still a little upset that they got [TS]

00:07:05   rid of it [TS]

00:07:06   I was joking but there it is yep that's [TS]

00:07:09   that's the seed that and that seed will [TS]

00:07:10   grow in your mind until maybe three [TS]

00:07:12   years from now twenty one thousand forty [TS]

00:07:15   one thousand two hundred thirty-five [TS]

00:07:16   dollars for new Wrangler holy schnikeys [TS]

00:07:18   what just why at that point why that [TS]

00:07:21   there are so many better things in every [TS]

00:07:23   way tell me what tell me what for okay [TS]

00:07:26   to Honda Civics I would rather drive to [TS]

00:07:30   mondo civics than then around like one [TS]

00:07:32   to one in a different color like you [TS]

00:07:34   know just alternate the excitement of [TS]

00:07:37   having two cars that you rotate raid one [TS]

00:07:41   for cars if one car has a repair it's so [TS]

00:07:43   much less than if one you could drive [TS]

00:07:45   both of them to the ocean at the same [TS]

00:07:46   time I don't think I would need to go [TS]

00:07:50   that quite them you've never actually [TS]

00:07:53   need to go apparently the magic keyboard [TS]

00:07:58   with numeric keypad is bendy and I guess [TS]

00:08:01   that's something we're supposed to be [TS]

00:08:02   upset by because I tell you what when I [TS]

00:08:04   get a new keyboard the first thing I do [TS]

00:08:06   is a bend test to make sure it's not [TS]

00:08:07   bendy no not not bendy you didn't read [TS]

00:08:11   the link [TS]

00:08:11   no not bendy like if you put it in your [TS]

00:08:13   pocket and sit on it it'll Bend like an [TS]

00:08:14   iPhone 6 but there's two kinds of [TS]

00:08:18   reports one kind is I open up the box on [TS]

00:08:22   my brand-new magic keyboard with a [TS]

00:08:24   numeric keypad which is a hell of a [TS]

00:08:25   product name I don't know if that's the [TS]

00:08:27   official name but you know what I'm [TS]

00:08:28   talking about and I took it out of the [TS]

00:08:30   box and put it down on the desk in front [TS]

00:08:32   of me and it's bent like it's warped it [TS]

00:08:34   wobbles like you know what I mean so [TS]

00:08:35   that's that's no good that's just like [TS]

00:08:37   you know manufacturing defect or sure [TS]

00:08:38   maybe it got bent in transport or [TS]

00:08:41   something like that but the second [TS]

00:08:42   strain of this kind of story is I got a [TS]

00:08:46   new magic keyboard take it out of the [TS]

00:08:47   box with [TS]

00:08:47   typed on it for a week and apparently [TS]

00:08:50   the force of my typing bent it in the [TS]

00:08:51   middle if you're gonna put only little [TS]

00:08:53   pads or feet on four corners or very [TS]

00:08:55   long keyboard and it's so thin that it [TS]

00:08:57   bends in the middle from the force of [TS]

00:08:59   typing that is a pretty big failure for [TS]

00:09:02   the functionality of a keyboard now your [TS]

00:09:04   beloved magic keyboard that you have [TS]

00:09:05   without a numeric keyboard and maybe is [TS]

00:09:06   has a short enough wheelbase so to speak [TS]

00:09:08   that having little feets on the corners [TS]

00:09:11   doesn't make it bend in the middle or [TS]

00:09:13   maybe you should just not look at your [TS]

00:09:14   keyboard to see if it's bent in the [TS]

00:09:15   middle but anyway we'll link to this MJ [TS]

00:09:21   size web page that has a collection of [TS]

00:09:23   all of this information I don't know if [TS]

00:09:26   it's a manufacturing defect kind of [TS]

00:09:27   makes me feel better it's like oh [TS]

00:09:28   they'll fix the manufacturing defect but [TS]

00:09:30   if it was actually the case that the [TS]

00:09:32   mere act of typing on the keyboard bends [TS]

00:09:33   it that's that's pretty bad we are [TS]

00:09:38   sponsored this week by fracture who [TS]

00:09:39   prints vivid color photos directly on [TS]

00:09:41   glass visit fracture dot me and save 15% [TS]

00:09:45   off your first order with code 80 P 17 [TS]

00:09:47   you should get photos printed sometimes [TS]

00:09:49   because they not only do they make great [TS]

00:09:51   gifts but even just for yourself they [TS]

00:09:53   help you keep those memories alive they [TS]

00:09:55   help help you capture those moments and [TS]

00:09:56   keep them around keep you seeing them [TS]

00:09:58   because otherwise they fall off your [TS]

00:10:00   Instagram timeline or your Facebook [TS]

00:10:02   River or whatever it's called and you [TS]

00:10:04   never see them again [TS]

00:10:05   and so with actual photo prints you can [TS]

00:10:08   have these physical objects representing [TS]

00:10:10   these memories in your life and they are [TS]

00:10:11   just wonderful fracture prints are these [TS]

00:10:13   edge-to-edge prints on pieces of glass [TS]

00:10:16   you don't need to frame them and they're [TS]

00:10:17   lightweight they're very thin pieces of [TS]

00:10:19   glass so you don't have to worry about [TS]

00:10:20   like this giant heavy thing like falling [TS]

00:10:22   off the wall and crashing down like that [TS]

00:10:23   that never happens that they're they're [TS]

00:10:25   way too lightweight for that it's just [TS]

00:10:26   these wonderful practical and very nice [TS]

00:10:30   looking glass prints of your photos and [TS]

00:10:32   they make fantastic gifts especially now [TS]

00:10:36   for the holidays these are all [TS]

00:10:37   human-made prints handmade in [TS]

00:10:39   Gainesville Florida [TS]

00:10:40   they around the holidays can [TS]

00:10:42   occasionally get backed up so you want [TS]

00:10:44   to get those holiday orders in right now [TS]

00:10:46   because you're running out of time [TS]

00:10:48   really get those orders in now so that [TS]

00:10:51   these these wonderful people in Florida [TS]

00:10:53   can make your prints ordering is simple [TS]

00:10:55   it comes with everything you need right [TS]

00:10:56   in the box there's a money-back [TS]

00:10:57   guarantee if anything goes wrong oh I've [TS]

00:10:59   never seen anything go wrong [TS]

00:11:00   fracture prints are great they make [TS]

00:11:02   great gifts but just hurry up in order [TS]

00:11:04   for the halt [TS]

00:11:04   it's because you're really really [TS]

00:11:06   running low on time here visit fracture [TS]

00:11:08   dot me and save fifteen percent off your [TS]

00:11:10   first order with code ATP seventeen [TS]

00:11:13   thank you so much to fracture for [TS]

00:11:15   sponsoring our show let's do a little [TS]

00:11:20   bit of ask ATP Paige Hilliard writes in [TS]

00:11:25   is there any way the three of you could [TS]

00:11:26   come up with a list of realistic things [TS]

00:11:27   that you would like to have as holiday [TS]

00:11:28   gifts even if some of you already have [TS]

00:11:30   them helpful hints would be greatly [TS]

00:11:33   appreciated and potentially opening up [TS]

00:11:35   your website to sell t-shirts or gear [TS]

00:11:36   year-round would be even more [TS]

00:11:37   appreciated so the bad news is is that [TS]

00:11:40   Paige's spouse or or what-have-you is [TS]

00:11:44   protect probably going to be listening [TS]

00:11:46   to the show and so Paige now you can't [TS]

00:11:48   use any of these ideas because we're now [TS]

00:11:51   giving them away however you assume we [TS]

00:11:53   have useful ideas that's also fair I was [TS]

00:11:57   thinking about this on and off most of [TS]

00:11:58   today I try to every year and I did not [TS]

00:12:02   do it this year I tried it every year do [TS]

00:12:04   a like holiday roundup of here's a bunch [TS]

00:12:07   of different gifts that I recommend at [TS]

00:12:10   all sorts of different price points and [TS]

00:12:11   so I'll put in the show notes the last [TS]

00:12:14   couple of years of these posts and [TS]

00:12:15   they're just stuff I like sometimes it's [TS]

00:12:18   boardgame sometimes it's stupid lights [TS]

00:12:19   like cables or something dumb like that [TS]

00:12:22   but this year I didn't do it mostly [TS]

00:12:25   because I didn't feel like I had that [TS]

00:12:26   many new and interesting ideas so I'm [TS]

00:12:29   missing out on that sweet sweet [TS]

00:12:30   affiliate money but my priority is to do [TS]

00:12:33   a post that I think is useful before it [TS]

00:12:35   is make a few bucks on affiliate money [TS]

00:12:37   so that's why I didn't write it the only [TS]

00:12:39   thing I can come up with that I think is [TS]

00:12:40   useful is for those of us with new [TS]

00:12:41   phones a Qi charger seems like a pretty [TS]

00:12:46   good answer now you would have to figure [TS]

00:12:48   out would would your partner want a [TS]

00:12:51   stand up Qi charger safer at a desk or [TS]

00:12:53   would they want ace a lay down Qi [TS]

00:12:56   charger safer like at a nightstand but [TS]

00:12:59   that seems to me to be a pretty good [TS]

00:13:01   option and a pretty safe option for [TS]

00:13:03   anyone that has an iPhone 8 or newer I [TS]

00:13:06   have a hard time with this because I am [TS]

00:13:09   very hard to shop for as everyone in my [TS]

00:13:12   family always complains about [TS]

00:13:14   right around this time of year and when [TS]

00:13:16   I do think of something that I actually [TS]

00:13:18   want I just buy it immediately and don't [TS]

00:13:19   give anyone else a chance to buy it for [TS]

00:13:21   me or sometimes the things that I want [TS]

00:13:23   are too expensive that I would feel [TS]

00:13:25   comfortable asking for as a gift so it's [TS]

00:13:28   it's kind of a hard topic especially [TS]

00:13:31   because we don't know anything about [TS]

00:13:33   this person really it's so it's you know [TS]

00:13:37   like if they like coffee I can tell you [TS]

00:13:39   lots of coffee gear that that could be [TS]

00:13:41   useful I've written up on my side a few [TS]

00:13:43   times so yeah like Casey I didn't do [TS]

00:13:45   anything with any kind of gift guide [TS]

00:13:47   this year but you know coffee equipment [TS]

00:13:51   kitchen equipment in general you know it [TS]

00:13:53   for whatever they like to do that's [TS]

00:13:55   always you know interesting gift ideas [TS]

00:13:57   but it's really hard without knowing [TS]

00:13:59   anything else I can think of like you [TS]

00:14:02   know kind of a Greatest Hits kind of [TS]

00:14:03   thing like just stuff that everyone [TS]

00:14:05   seems to enjoy and certain kitchen [TS]

00:14:07   gadgets fit this requirement I think [TS]

00:14:08   pretty well certain ones are things like [TS]

00:14:11   having like a really nice pair of gloves [TS]

00:14:14   for the winter is always like good for [TS]

00:14:16   Christmas I enjoy having a really nice [TS]

00:14:19   flashlight the there's a line of [TS]

00:14:21   flashlights by the brand Phoenix with an [TS]

00:14:23   F F VIII and IX that I really enjoy that [TS]

00:14:26   just use like two double-a batteries and [TS]

00:14:28   you can get smaller bigger ones with the [TS]

00:14:30   two double-a ones I think are the best [TS]

00:14:32   size to weight balance they're super [TS]

00:14:35   nice LED flashlights that's just kind of [TS]

00:14:36   like a pleasant thing to have around [TS]

00:14:39   your mention of the Qi charging mats is [TS]

00:14:41   really good the Mophie one that the [TS]

00:14:44   Apple store sells is excellent I sure [TS]

00:14:47   had a few other ones now I actually just [TS]

00:14:49   got in the Grove made one those just [TS]

00:14:51   came today I have not yet actually used [TS]

00:14:54   it beyond just five seconds to test it [TS]

00:14:55   out because it's it's gonna be my [TS]

00:14:57   nightstand charger and I haven't got a [TS]

00:15:00   bed yet so but it looks really nice and [TS]

00:15:03   it's very well built it's pretty big [TS]

00:15:05   but but pretty well built pretty nice [TS]

00:15:07   and yeah just you know the I mean [TS]

00:15:08   there's all sorts of stuff like you know [TS]

00:15:10   I like having a really nice backpack I [TS]

00:15:12   have I have a backpack from Briggs & [TS]

00:15:15   Riley which is a fancy luggage company [TS]

00:15:17   they make fantastic luggage which is why [TS]

00:15:19   I got their backpack and I just love [TS]

00:15:20   that it's just it's so delightful to [TS]

00:15:22   have that any kind of you know like [TS]

00:15:24   certain people myself included like [TS]

00:15:26   having nice leather goods [TS]

00:15:28   so like you know like a leather laptop [TS]

00:15:31   case maybe something like that like that [TS]

00:15:33   that kind of stuff you know but I mean [TS]

00:15:36   this this stuff this is so like kind of [TS]

00:15:38   general purpose [TS]

00:15:39   I like having really good travel mugs [TS]

00:15:42   zojirushi makes a really nice travel mug [TS]

00:15:44   that I really really like yeah I I don't [TS]

00:15:49   really know it's it's really hard to [TS]

00:15:51   know like how to be more specific than [TS]

00:15:54   this but those are all nice things yeah [TS]

00:15:58   you know hearing you talk gave me a [TS]

00:15:59   couple of other ideas one of the best [TS]

00:16:02   investments I've ever ever ever made was [TS]

00:16:05   what I call my go pack which is really [TS]

00:16:07   just a collection of cables and whatnot [TS]

00:16:08   that are basically duplicates of [TS]

00:16:11   anything I would need to charge any of [TS]

00:16:13   my devices and a couple other [TS]

00:16:14   miscellaneous bits so you know if I ever [TS]

00:16:17   go overnight anywhere I just grabbed [TS]

00:16:21   this bag that has all of my chargers in [TS]

00:16:23   it always they never ever leave that bag [TS]

00:16:25   unless they're you know in a hotel being [TS]

00:16:27   used or whatever and I don't have to you [TS]

00:16:30   know remove my entire installation from [TS]

00:16:32   my bedside table or anything like that [TS]

00:16:33   pack it up and then reassemble it when I [TS]

00:16:35   get back home it is just everything in [TS]

00:16:37   duplicate and I've written a couple of [TS]

00:16:39   log posts about that and so I'll put a [TS]

00:16:41   link to that in the show notes it can [TS]

00:16:43   get pretty spendy depending on what you [TS]

00:16:44   want I think I've spent like 200 bucks [TS]

00:16:46   on mine and I'm not talking about the [TS]

00:16:47   bag itself I'm talking about all the [TS]

00:16:48   bits inside but I have a couple of [TS]

00:16:50   fairly expensive things that I find very [TS]

00:16:51   useful that most normal humans probably [TS]

00:16:53   wouldn't and then additionally hearing [TS]

00:16:56   you talk about your did you say Briggs & [TS]

00:16:58   Riley umm backpack I happen to adore [TS]

00:17:02   anything that Tom bin makes that's T OMB [TS]

00:17:04   IH n it's maybe a little late to order [TS]

00:17:08   it for this holiday season unless you [TS]

00:17:10   are on the west coast because they're [TS]

00:17:12   Seattle based but pretty much anything [TS]

00:17:14   Tom Ben makes I adore and I highly [TS]

00:17:17   recommend that as much as Marko seems to [TS]

00:17:20   highly recommend Briggs & Riley as well [TS]

00:17:22   so just a couple of quick thoughts that [TS]

00:17:24   Marco made me think of before [TS]

00:17:26   one more thing also I came up with [TS]

00:17:28   something more specific in the kitchen [TS]

00:17:29   category I have gotten as gifts for [TS]

00:17:32   other people in the past my favorite [TS]

00:17:34   kitchen thermometer which is the thermo [TS]

00:17:37   works thermapen mark 4 if you have any [TS]

00:17:40   need for a kitchen thermometer and [TS]

00:17:42   if you ever do anything in the kitchen [TS]

00:17:43   ever you do even if you don't think you [TS]

00:17:45   need one you need one and once you have [TS]

00:17:48   one you will use it for lots of things [TS]

00:17:49   every kitchen should have a thermometer [TS]

00:17:51   and a scale and the scale you can get [TS]

00:17:54   pretty much any cheap garbage it doesn't [TS]

00:17:55   really matter the thermometer they [TS]

00:17:56   actually matter quite a bit there's [TS]

00:17:57   pretty big variations in quality and [TS]

00:17:59   accuracy and speed and everything else [TS]

00:18:00   what you want is the thermapen mark for [TS]

00:18:04   from thermo works it runs about 70 bucks [TS]

00:18:08   usually when if you find a good sale I [TS]

00:18:11   think it's about 90 if it's not on sale [TS]

00:18:13   this is the one like if you see like on [TS]

00:18:15   Top Chef if you ever see anybody using a [TS]

00:18:17   kitchen thermometer it is probably this [TS]

00:18:19   one there's a reason for that [TS]

00:18:21   it's awesome this is like the I was [TS]

00:18:23   gonna say the Cadillac of thermometers [TS]

00:18:25   but Cadillac aren't that great anymore [TS]

00:18:26   are they this is this is the Tesla of [TS]

00:18:29   thermometers like this it's great [TS]

00:18:34   generally and like you know I mentioned [TS]

00:18:35   Phoenix earlier with the LED flashlight [TS]

00:18:37   thing and those are like 50 bucks you [TS]

00:18:39   know so these aren't cheap but it's [TS]

00:18:42   really nice when if you're the kind of [TS]

00:18:44   person who values quality and nice [TS]

00:18:46   things but almost everyone is about [TS]

00:18:48   something you know it might not be about [TS]

00:18:49   the same things that you or I are but [TS]

00:18:50   almost everyone can appreciate quality [TS]

00:18:52   in something and it's really nice when [TS]

00:18:55   you can find something like this in a [TS]

00:18:57   category where like pretty much [TS]

00:18:58   everything else in the category is kind [TS]

00:19:00   of mediocre garbage and if you can [TS]

00:19:02   figure out what's like the one really [TS]

00:19:04   awesome thing in that category even if [TS]

00:19:07   it's a little bit ridiculously priced [TS]

00:19:08   that kind of thing makes a good gift [TS]

00:19:10   because the kind of thing we're like [TS]

00:19:11   people who receive it can probably [TS]

00:19:14   appreciate something really awesome like [TS]

00:19:16   that but because it's expensive and or [TS]

00:19:19   obscure they might not ever know about [TS]

00:19:21   it or they might not feel justified [TS]

00:19:23   spending a price for it so that's the [TS]

00:19:24   perfect kind of thing that makes a great [TS]

00:19:25   gift is like I wouldn't have bought this [TS]

00:19:28   for myself [TS]

00:19:29   but I really appreciate having it yeah I [TS]

00:19:31   do agree that that is one of the best [TS]

00:19:33   gifts the oh man this is great but I'm [TS]

00:19:35   so glad I didn't spend them honey huh [TS]

00:19:37   that is that is the sweet spot John [TS]

00:19:39   we've delayed you far too long what are [TS]

00:19:41   your thoughts I reject the premise of [TS]

00:19:43   this question which is that we should we [TS]

00:19:46   should list things that we like because [TS]

00:19:49   people who listen to the show like the [TS]

00:19:50   same things that we like I mean we can [TS]

00:19:52   try to list things that we like [TS]

00:19:53   even if we already have them like that [TS]

00:19:55   is one task but the the second part of [TS]

00:19:57   this is for those of us who are [TS]

00:19:59   partnered with a TV fans the idea being [TS]

00:20:01   that if we list things that we like that [TS]

00:20:03   people who like the show will also like [TS]

00:20:05   those same things and I don't think [TS]

00:20:06   that's true like just because we like [TS]

00:20:08   that means we like them everyone who [TS]

00:20:09   listens the show is not like us [TS]

00:20:11   hopefully so oh yeah and also I'm [TS]

00:20:14   terrible giving gift so even if I had a [TS]

00:20:16   good ideas for gifts that wouldn't [TS]

00:20:17   listen to me so that's very helpful [TS]

00:20:20   thank you John yeah and I put this [TS]

00:20:21   question in there and I basically put it [TS]

00:20:23   in just to say can you come up with a [TS]

00:20:24   list of but and the answer for me is no [TS]

00:20:26   I can't I cannot do that because I don't [TS]

00:20:28   think I should I don't think it makes [TS]

00:20:29   sense and even if it was phrased so it [TS]

00:20:31   does make sense I'm bad at that so I'm [TS]

00:20:33   glad YouTube filled in page just like [TS]

00:20:36   you and your partner know that Marco and [TS]

00:20:38   I are your favorites and John is my and [TS]

00:20:41   it too aspect what do you ask for I'm [TS]

00:20:43   not as bad as Marco in that I don't [TS]

00:20:46   immediately buy everything that I want [TS]

00:20:47   but when people ask me what they should [TS]

00:20:50   get me my answer is always nothing which [TS]

00:20:51   is probably the worst thing you can say [TS]

00:20:52   if someone wants to get you a gift so [TS]

00:20:54   I'm just terrible all around when it [TS]

00:20:55   comes to gift stuff yeah honestly I [TS]

00:20:57   would love to get to the point with the [TS]

00:20:59   family where like like maybe we just get [TS]

00:21:02   gifts for the kids right like that's [TS]

00:21:03   that seems like a better way to do it [TS]

00:21:05   but which say this is I think this is [TS]

00:21:07   the kind of like many adults wanted this [TS]

00:21:09   outcome but it's very hard to get [TS]

00:21:11   families to agree to that we're getting [TS]

00:21:13   close like we should have like a big [TS]

00:21:15   family map of like how far like we've [TS]

00:21:16   we've successfully spread the only gifts [TS]

00:21:20   for kids name we've done pretty fun [TS]

00:21:23   alright moving on [TS]

00:21:25   rob Fiorentino writes how do you feel [TS]

00:21:28   about your code or your apps after you [TS]

00:21:30   have written them are they more like [TS]

00:21:31   your children or your tools out in the [TS]

00:21:33   shed I will speak for myself and say any [TS]

00:21:36   code that I've written more than three [TS]

00:21:37   days ago is always garbage and any code [TS]

00:21:40   I've written in the last three days is [TS]

00:21:41   often garbage John I'm not sure like [TS]

00:21:45   with the children or tools thing I'm not [TS]

00:21:46   sure like what what Rob is getting at [TS]

00:21:50   there you can take a lots of different [TS]

00:21:52   ways like you know tools in your shed or [TS]

00:21:56   children like I don't know anyway I'll [TS]

00:21:58   just tell you how I feel about my code [TS]

00:21:59   because I don't understand that part of [TS]

00:22:00   it I think he's just saying you know is [TS]

00:22:01   it is it disposable and you're like yeah [TS]

00:22:03   whatever or is it oh this is my creation [TS]

00:22:06   that I've laid [TS]

00:22:07   for and it is perfect in every possible [TS]

00:22:09   way I mean like you said Casey it really [TS]

00:22:13   depends on the time line sometimes you [TS]

00:22:15   write code and as soon as you've done [TS]

00:22:17   writing it you just hate it but it's [TS]

00:22:18   like you just got to do what you got to [TS]

00:22:20   do cuz it's work right [TS]

00:22:22   other times you're you can be mildly [TS]

00:22:25   satisfied with it but there is I there's [TS]

00:22:28   really no such thing as far as I'm [TS]

00:22:30   concerned as code that I write that I [TS]

00:22:32   can look back on the long term and not [TS]

00:22:35   see all the terrible problems with like [TS]

00:22:38   a couple years down the line no matter [TS]

00:22:40   how incredibly happy you are with [TS]

00:22:43   something you I will I always do see [TS]

00:22:48   what's really wrong with it it you know [TS]

00:22:51   if only because if that code lives on [TS]

00:22:54   like if it's if you're aware of its [TS]

00:22:56   existence it probably means that it's [TS]

00:22:58   still in use which means that it has to [TS]

00:23:00   be modified to account for you know the [TS]

00:23:03   changes of reality like you know things [TS]

00:23:05   change and you have to modify an augment [TS]

00:23:07   your code to do new things and [TS]

00:23:08   inevitably you get to the point where [TS]

00:23:10   you are modifying your code in ways that [TS]

00:23:12   you do not anticipate when you wrote it [TS]

00:23:14   and nothing makes code uglier it makes [TS]

00:23:17   you more annoyed with it then more than [TS]

00:23:19   trying to change it in ways that it [TS]

00:23:21   wasn't meant to be changed like you [TS]

00:23:22   never thought things would change along [TS]

00:23:24   this axis you always thought this [TS]

00:23:25   bedrock assumption would be true when [TS]

00:23:27   the entire system was built around it [TS]

00:23:28   then that bedrock assumption is not true [TS]

00:23:30   and you're like oh god do I read the [TS]

00:23:33   whole thing how can I change it is it [TS]

00:23:35   too much like and then so you just feel [TS]

00:23:36   bad about it so it's mostly the more [TS]

00:23:39   time goes on and the more it has to [TS]

00:23:40   change the more bad I feel about it [TS]

00:23:43   Marko pretty much all my old code I look [TS]

00:23:46   at it as yeah this this is just garbage [TS]

00:23:50   and it's a burden like I I love deleting [TS]

00:23:54   code I love when a library comes around [TS]

00:23:57   that removes the need for some code I've [TS]

00:24:00   written I can just delete my code and [TS]

00:24:01   use the library or you know new API is [TS]

00:24:03   from Apple one those come and stuff like [TS]

00:24:05   that [TS]

00:24:06   I I code to accomplish something else [TS]

00:24:11   like I code to build a product the [TS]

00:24:14   actual code I take very little joy in [TS]

00:24:17   like is it beautiful or I'll [TS]

00:24:20   or interesting or clever like I don't I [TS]

00:24:24   take no joy in any of that so I write [TS]

00:24:28   code and immediately even as I'm writing [TS]

00:24:30   it I'm like oh god I don't want to have [TS]

00:24:32   to maintain this I don't like I don't [TS]

00:24:33   want to have to do this crazy thing like [TS]

00:24:35   but it's all to accomplish the end so [TS]

00:24:39   basically immediately after my code is [TS]

00:24:41   written I don't like it and I just try [TS]

00:24:45   to move on if I can yeah I mean I gave a [TS]

00:24:48   slightly Starkie answered and saying [TS]

00:24:50   everything I've written I hate and that [TS]

00:24:51   is only slightly snarky do you feel that [TS]

00:24:54   most of the time but all kidding aside [TS]

00:24:56   in my entire career and I've been doing [TS]

00:24:58   this for jeez like 13 years now I think [TS]

00:25:03   there have been maybe probably five or [TS]

00:25:08   less like blocks of code I don't mean [TS]

00:25:11   that is like five lines I mean like like [TS]

00:25:13   projects maybe it's a better way of [TS]

00:25:14   phrasing if they've been like five or [TS]

00:25:16   less projects wherein I've written some [TS]

00:25:18   code and thoughts myself you know what [TS]

00:25:20   that was really solid and I did [TS]

00:25:23   something really good and/or clever [TS]

00:25:25   there and usually clever is bad when it [TS]

00:25:29   comes to code but occasionally I'm good [TS]

00:25:31   and and so I think all kidding aside [TS]

00:25:34   probably five times the last my career [TS]

00:25:36   I've looked back and said that was that [TS]

00:25:38   was good work everything else is either [TS]

00:25:41   well it didn't immediately turn into a [TS]

00:25:43   fireball so I consider that you know [TS]

00:25:46   [Laughter] [TS]

00:25:48   that no one else is telling him to [TS]

00:25:51   change to you know change his product in [TS]

00:25:54   ways that he didn't anticipate it [TS]

00:25:56   changing because he's the one who [TS]

00:25:59   decides how it's going to change him and [TS]

00:26:00   if anyone has any kind of idea how it [TS]

00:26:02   might change in the future it's him [TS]

00:26:03   because he's gonna be and it's not like [TS]

00:26:05   he's saying he predicts everything but [TS]

00:26:06   you never have he never has someone [TS]

00:26:08   coming and saying you should add this [TS]

00:26:11   feature that is that flies in the face [TS]

00:26:13   of your entire internal design of your [TS]

00:26:15   application even if he has the notion to [TS]

00:26:19   do that he's not forced to do it on an [TS]

00:26:21   abbreviated timeline or like all sorts [TS]

00:26:23   of like the pressures of the real job [TS]

00:26:25   that forces you to do things chef when [TS]

00:26:27   the iPhone 10s coming out and you got to [TS]

00:26:28   make the release yeah yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:26:30   right but but does that's that's like [TS]

00:26:32   that's more like just that's that's what [TS]

00:26:34   the entire job is is using someone [TS]

00:26:36   else's api's you know you don't write [TS]

00:26:38   UIKit you rolling with the punches of [TS]

00:26:40   apple's platform you're writing on top [TS]

00:26:41   of a platform is everyone has that same [TS]

00:26:43   thing if you're writing you know [TS]

00:26:44   whatever you're writing on top of a [TS]

00:26:45   framework and that framework changes and [TS]

00:26:48   you gotta you know roll with those [TS]

00:26:49   punches too like but I'm saying for like [TS]

00:26:51   the things that your actual product does [TS]

00:26:52   so I think it makes you feel worse when [TS]

00:26:55   you have to change your thing in a way [TS]

00:26:59   that it was never meant to be changed [TS]

00:27:00   and you have to do it ASAP [TS]

00:27:03   and you know whether you think it's a [TS]

00:27:05   good idea or not it has to happen that [TS]

00:27:06   does like the worst damage to even even [TS]

00:27:08   code that you that you feel like you [TS]

00:27:10   know was was arranged in a reasonable [TS]

00:27:12   way and designed in a reasonable way you [TS]

00:27:15   have to go in there and basically like [TS]

00:27:17   injure it and scarred and make it uglier [TS]

00:27:20   and just makes you want to just never [TS]

00:27:21   look at it again and tear it all down [TS]

00:27:22   and start over and you know I know those [TS]

00:27:25   feels all too well now one of my [TS]

00:27:27   favorite pastimes on the show is to bag [TS]

00:27:29   on Marco for not having a job however in [TS]

00:27:31   Marco's defense I have to stand up for [TS]

00:27:33   Marco on this one I feel like just in [TS]

00:27:37   the last few days Marco and I don't know [TS]

00:27:38   how much of this you want to talk about [TS]

00:27:40   on the show so I'm gonna be a little [TS]

00:27:40   cagey about it but just in the last few [TS]

00:27:42   days you had maybe not an emergency but [TS]

00:27:45   a oh crap moment where some external [TS]

00:27:47   force forced you to do a whole bunch of [TS]

00:27:49   things and write a whole bunch of code [TS]

00:27:50   that it seems like you if you were [TS]

00:27:53   planning on doing it at all it was going [TS]

00:27:55   to be long in the future and so I do [TS]

00:27:57   think John you're you're usually right [TS]

00:28:00   but it just so happens that it seems [TS]

00:28:01   like Marco you've just gone through this [TS]

00:28:03   recently so how do you feel about that [TS]

00:28:05   code whether or not you want to discuss [TS]

00:28:06   the motivations behind it I'm happy to [TS]

00:28:08   talk about it so the cook you're [TS]

00:28:10   referring to is overcast handling [TS]

00:28:13   permanent feed redirects or feed changes [TS]

00:28:16   for podcasts basically the way I built [TS]

00:28:20   the overcast crawling infrastructure and [TS]

00:28:23   database is that feeds have feeds are [TS]

00:28:28   keyed uniquely on URLs so that every [TS]

00:28:30   every feet and feeds map one-to-one to [TS]

00:28:32   URLs and those URLs really can't or it [TS]

00:28:34   shouldn't change in the feed like if you [TS]

00:28:37   have a new URL gets a new feed entry and [TS]

00:28:39   then episodes are represented as feed [TS]

00:28:41   items and feed items are keyed based on [TS]

00:28:45   their feed [TS]

00:28:47   plus then like you know a bunch of [TS]

00:28:49   random numbers based on like you know [TS]

00:28:51   hashing their contents and then their [TS]

00:28:52   GUI D and stuff and so once you have [TS]

00:28:56   feeds and feed items match to a certain [TS]

00:29:00   feed URL it's not trivial to then move [TS]

00:29:04   those subscribers to a different feed [TS]

00:29:06   URL because all the item IDs for [TS]

00:29:08   everything they have subscribed to will [TS]

00:29:10   be different and I can't easily change I [TS]

00:29:12   can't just like modify the ones that are [TS]

00:29:15   on the old feed to point to the new feed [TS]

00:29:17   without having lots of other problems [TS]

00:29:18   and everything else and also worth [TS]

00:29:21   noting is that the feed items table is [TS]

00:29:26   170 gigs now the table that map's users [TS]

00:29:30   to feed items is also about 170 gigs [TS]

00:29:33   these are the two biggest and highest [TS]

00:29:34   traffic tables and overcast it is very [TS]

00:29:38   hard to modify these tables at all to [TS]

00:29:40   modify the schema to add indexes or to [TS]

00:29:44   change the schema talk to run alter [TS]

00:29:45   tables on it it pretty much can't be [TS]

00:29:48   completed in any kind of real-time [TS]

00:29:49   fashion the only way to really change [TS]

00:29:51   that would be to set up a whole new [TS]

00:29:53   database as a replica modify it and then [TS]

00:29:56   make it the new master and that's that's [TS]

00:29:58   just a lot of administration work and [TS]

00:30:00   it's it's risky it involves you know [TS]

00:30:02   downtime and I hate doing it and so all [TS]

00:30:05   this is to say that for for overcast to [TS]

00:30:09   modify what URL a feed entry points to [TS]

00:30:13   is a big deal and so for since the [TS]

00:30:17   beginning of overcast the way it handled [TS]

00:30:20   redirects was in HTTP terms it treated [TS]

00:30:25   them all as 302 is temporary redirects [TS]

00:30:27   so if it encountered a redirect it would [TS]

00:30:30   follow it when crawling the feed but it [TS]

00:30:31   would never update the source URL to [TS]

00:30:34   point to a new one if it encountered a [TS]

00:30:36   301 code which is the permanent redirect [TS]

00:30:38   code this works on the web because on [TS]

00:30:41   the web it's pretty common practice that [TS]

00:30:45   if you like host a website at a certain [TS]

00:30:48   domain name or a certain path and you [TS]

00:30:51   change your URL scheme or you move hosts [TS]

00:30:53   it's kind of known on the web that [TS]

00:30:55   you're supposed to set up a redirect [TS]

00:30:56   pretty much indefinitely that like it is [TS]

00:30:59   a bad eye [TS]

00:31:00   the to ever change URL without having a [TS]

00:31:02   redirect in place because then you're [TS]

00:31:03   losing all your like search engine [TS]

00:31:04   ranking and your inbound links from [TS]

00:31:06   other places and everything else like [TS]

00:31:07   it's kind of understood as a best [TS]

00:31:09   practice in the web that you don't break [TS]

00:31:11   redirects ever so on the web a permanent [TS]

00:31:14   redirect is much less important to be [TS]

00:31:15   treated as such because you can just [TS]

00:31:18   always crawl one of the URLs that [TS]

00:31:19   something used to be at and if it's been [TS]

00:31:21   properly maintained it will get you to [TS]

00:31:24   where the feed is like when we were then [TS]

00:31:26   where the new one is podcasting doesn't [TS]

00:31:30   work that way in practice so all this [TS]

00:31:33   time when I've been doing you know [TS]

00:31:35   basically like treating this like the [TS]

00:31:37   web where like I just kind of assumed [TS]

00:31:39   that if I follow a redirect it'll always [TS]

00:31:40   be there in podcast a lot of podcasters [TS]

00:31:44   first of all aren't web programmers you [TS]

00:31:46   know a lot of podcast producers and you [TS]

00:31:48   know they come from like the media world [TS]

00:31:50   there's also all sorts of podcast [TS]

00:31:54   hosting and analytics and advertising [TS]

00:31:56   platforms out there that all that all [TS]

00:31:59   want to host your feed for you at their [TS]

00:32:02   domain and are all selling their [TS]

00:32:04   services quite successfully to big [TS]

00:32:06   podcasters and the big podcasters to [TS]

00:32:10   them their entire world is iTunes and [TS]

00:32:12   with iTunes you don't have to maintain [TS]

00:32:15   permanent redirects forever if you [TS]

00:32:16   change your feet you can just tell [TS]

00:32:19   iTunes what your new URL is and it will [TS]

00:32:22   move for you for it's for itself and and [TS]

00:32:25   for Apple podcast subscribers and then [TS]

00:32:28   you don't have to think about it anymore [TS]

00:32:29   so the concept of having permanent [TS]

00:32:33   redirect setup is in practice not known [TS]

00:32:36   or not practiced by most podcasters they [TS]

00:32:38   are happy to move their feeds to anyone [TS]

00:32:41   elses service anyone else's domain [TS]

00:32:43   whatever new ad tracking insertion [TS]

00:32:46   platform they're using this six month [TS]

00:32:48   period they're they'll move it all the [TS]

00:32:50   time and they don't consider what web [TS]

00:32:53   programmers will consider you know is [TS]

00:32:54   necessary for that so I could say here [TS]

00:32:57   all that's as much as I want and try to [TS]

00:32:59   blame them and say well you know this is [TS]

00:33:01   your problem not mine but the reality is [TS]

00:33:04   it becomes my problem it is definitely [TS]

00:33:07   my problem and it's my and I'm the one [TS]

00:33:09   who needs to fix it and find a solution [TS]

00:33:11   because what happens is when a big [TS]

00:33:13   podcast [TS]

00:33:14   like about about a year ago this [TS]

00:33:15   American life moved their feed and they [TS]

00:33:17   broke the old redirect and I certainly [TS]

00:33:20   had like 80,000 people telling me that [TS]

00:33:24   their number one podcast was broken and [TS]

00:33:26   overcast and this was bad simile it [TS]

00:33:29   became my problem very much so at the [TS]

00:33:32   time I didn't have any any kind of [TS]

00:33:35   infrastructure in place to move [TS]

00:33:37   subscribers between feeds in a way that [TS]

00:33:39   wouldn't just break everything and this [TS]

00:33:42   American life has another problem where [TS]

00:33:43   they don't keep their back feed going [TS]

00:33:46   like they they only keep the most recent [TS]

00:33:49   handful of episodes in the feed once [TS]

00:33:51   something is older than a few weeks old [TS]

00:33:52   you can't download it anymore you have [TS]

00:33:54   to I think I think they sell them or you [TS]

00:33:55   can get them in their app or something [TS]

00:33:56   but you can't download them out of the [TS]

00:33:58   regular feed anymore [TS]

00:33:59   so if I move people over to a new entry [TS]

00:34:03   that doesn't have all those back catalog [TS]

00:34:05   episodes for this American Life that's a [TS]

00:34:07   pretty big problem especially for that [TS]

00:34:08   show because it's so popular and a lot [TS]

00:34:11   of times people will save save APIs ODEs [TS]

00:34:13   for like months at a time like they'll [TS]

00:34:15   save up a big back catalog so they can [TS]

00:34:17   get to go back and realest in or gonna [TS]

00:34:18   save it up for like long car trips [TS]

00:34:19   whatever else so there's all these like [TS]

00:34:21   very very fragile conditions in which I [TS]

00:34:23   have to be very careful what I do to [TS]

00:34:25   handle redirects if anything and my [TS]

00:34:28   original plan up until now of just not [TS]

00:34:30   handling them was breaking down pretty [TS]

00:34:32   badly the driving factor this past week [TS]

00:34:35   was that books bookcase was looted too [TS]

00:34:39   the New York Times podcast the daily is [TS]

00:34:41   very very popular the daily moved their [TS]

00:34:44   feed overcast didn't handle didn't take [TS]

00:34:46   the redirect and the old feed wasn't [TS]

00:34:48   redirecting to the new one I was hearing [TS]

00:34:50   about it from a lot of people and [TS]

00:34:52   eventually we worked it out and and they [TS]

00:34:54   had heard they arranged to to put that [TS]

00:34:56   redirect in place so that was a [TS]

00:34:59   temporary patch but ultimately this was [TS]

00:35:01   kind of like one of the many wake-up [TS]

00:35:03   calls I finally had it was like okay I [TS]

00:35:05   need to handle redirects also like [TS]

00:35:09   SoundCloud is falling apart and it seems [TS]

00:35:11   like they're probably not long for this [TS]

00:35:12   world so like and a lot of pockets were [TS]

00:35:15   hosted there so there's maybe a lot of [TS]

00:35:16   feed moves there and and there's so many [TS]

00:35:19   popular shows that are moving to [TS]

00:35:20   different ad insertion platforms now and [TS]

00:35:21   changing their if you'd address again [TS]

00:35:23   it's it's a big enough problem now that [TS]

00:35:25   like any podcast [TS]

00:35:27   crawling setup like this it has to have [TS]

00:35:30   a way to have permanent redirects like [TS]

00:35:32   that's just the that's just the [TS]

00:35:33   environment now too many popular shows [TS]

00:35:35   move too often you have to do it so what [TS]

00:35:39   I've been working on for the last you [TS]

00:35:41   know I don't know a week or so is that [TS]

00:35:43   is permanent redirects and making it [TS]

00:35:46   work and it's really not good like the [TS]

00:35:50   way I do it is really not good but the [TS]

00:35:52   only way I can do it without totally [TS]

00:35:54   modifying my database schema and going [TS]

00:35:56   through like sysadmin hell for weeks as [TS]

00:35:59   I do that not to mention lots of costs [TS]

00:36:02   associated with that and possible bug [TS]

00:36:05   potential so I really don't want to do [TS]

00:36:06   that so what I do now basically is I [TS]

00:36:09   have a separate process from the [TS]

00:36:11   crawlers because it's speaking of your [TS]

00:36:13   old code my crawlers are are the only [TS]

00:36:17   thing I have written and go and I [TS]

00:36:19   haven't written really any go since so [TS]

00:36:21   my ghost skills are very rusty and I [TS]

00:36:23   look at the crawler code now and it's so [TS]

00:36:25   complex because it was not only is it [TS]

00:36:28   written in this language that I've used [TS]

00:36:29   for nothing else so like my skills are [TS]

00:36:31   dull but also it's at the first go [TS]

00:36:35   program I ever wrote so it's not [TS]

00:36:36   particularly great go code like it's [TS]

00:36:38   like me learning the language and so [TS]

00:36:40   like everything's in one big file and [TS]

00:36:42   it's kind of all over the place and for [TS]

00:36:44   me to track redirect there I would have [TS]

00:36:46   to modify the go code and I've been [TS]

00:36:48   trying to do that at first to solve a [TS]

00:36:50   few other problems it's just like [TS]

00:36:51   looking at this like I just want to set [TS]

00:36:53   this on fire like I have no idea what [TS]

00:36:56   this does I'm so scared so she goes like [TS]

00:36:57   it mostly has worked for a long time and [TS]

00:37:00   I don't want to touch it but so instead [TS]

00:37:04   I made a separate process a separate [TS]

00:37:06   process in PHP my comfort language I [TS]

00:37:09   know it's like comfort food like it's [TS]

00:37:12   it's not good for you but you know [TS]

00:37:14   anyway so I made a PHP separate cue that [TS]

00:37:20   just once a day checks feeds for [TS]

00:37:21   redirects and if a feed is redirecting [TS]

00:37:23   to the same place that is also an iTunes [TS]

00:37:26   registered feed for more than I think [TS]

00:37:29   two days it's a threshold at then it [TS]

00:37:32   will take all the subscribers and [TS]

00:37:35   basically create new entries for them in [TS]

00:37:39   the new feed that [TS]

00:37:41   their entries in the old feed and then [TS]

00:37:43   delete the old feed description so to [TS]

00:37:45   the user the only thing that appears to [TS]

00:37:47   happen is all of a sudden the episodes [TS]

00:37:51   for one of those shows that could that [TS]

00:37:53   got moved [TS]

00:37:54   they all just redownload for some reason [TS]

00:37:56   everything else is preserved played [TS]

00:37:58   unplayed states whether its start or not [TS]

00:38:01   progress if you're partial this and [TS]

00:38:03   that's all preserved that just gets re [TS]

00:38:05   inserted and with the new IDs but you do [TS]

00:38:08   have to redownload because the client [TS]

00:38:09   sees them as new entries basically [TS]

00:38:12   that's now in place there's now this [TS]

00:38:13   queue that runs those things that's [TS]

00:38:15   going through the backlog it took way [TS]

00:38:17   too long for me to do this I'm glad I [TS]

00:38:19   finally did it [TS]

00:38:20   I wish I had a slightly more elegant [TS]

00:38:21   solution that wouldn't require read [TS]

00:38:23   downloading but that would just be a lot [TS]

00:38:26   more overhead so I'm not gonna do that [TS]

00:38:28   yet maybe down the road if it becomes a [TS]

00:38:30   big problem and then like once I found [TS]

00:38:32   like once I hacked I had something [TS]

00:38:34   actually checking for 301 redirects and [TS]

00:38:36   and for the new iTunes new feed URL tag [TS]

00:38:39   which is inserted it's like what people [TS]

00:38:42   who aren't familiar with podcast who [TS]

00:38:43   just know web programming this would [TS]

00:38:45   make you cry that like the way that you [TS]

00:38:47   can redirect a feed for podcasts is you [TS]

00:38:51   leave the old feed still there returning [TS]

00:38:54   a 200 response code but you put an XML [TS]

00:38:56   tag in the RSS feed that's iTunes : new [TS]

00:39:00   feed URL and just leave that there for a [TS]

00:39:03   few days and iTunes picks it up and [TS]

00:39:05   moves your feed for you and then the old [TS]

00:39:08   feed just can sit there not getting [TS]

00:39:10   episodes added to it or can just get [TS]

00:39:12   deleted and stop working like that's how [TS]

00:39:15   like I'm telling you this is what I have [TS]

00:39:18   to deal with again like the web [TS]

00:39:21   programmer me when I started this whole [TS]

00:39:22   thing is like I don't need to do that [TS]

00:39:23   that's terrible no one's gonna really do [TS]

00:39:25   that but no people really do it and at [TS]

00:39:27   increasing frequency and yeah and so [TS]

00:39:28   anyway once I had this redirect check in [TS]

00:39:30   working I was able to see quite how many [TS]

00:39:34   very popular shows have had redirects [TS]

00:39:37   since 2014 when I started crawling them [TS]

00:39:40   and it's a lot some of them were simple [TS]

00:39:43   like moving from HTTP to HTTPS like that [TS]

00:39:47   that's a very common one like all the [TS]

00:39:48   relay shows did that lots of lots of [TS]

00:39:51   popular shows have done that but a lot [TS]

00:39:53   of them are just moving to different ad [TS]

00:39:54   platforms and track [TS]

00:39:55   platforms and insertion platforms and [TS]

00:39:57   publishing platforms and no one hosts [TS]

00:39:59   their own feed in podcasting it's yeah [TS]

00:40:02   so it's it's a mess out there and so I [TS]

00:40:03   had to deal with it even though I really [TS]

00:40:06   didn't want to [TS]

00:40:07   I was so opinionated about like I don't [TS]

00:40:09   need to do this like that's it they [TS]

00:40:11   should have redirects in place forever [TS]

00:40:13   but that's not the reality and I had I [TS]

00:40:15   had to you know adopted that because [TS]

00:40:18   that's the understatement [TS]

00:40:19   so yeah so occasionally you have to do [TS]

00:40:22   things and do them on the double because [TS]

00:40:24   other people weren't thinking about you [TS]

00:40:26   but it's not his boss tell him to do it [TS]

00:40:27   though he's his boss he's the one he got [TS]

00:40:29   to the point is he got to delay doing it [TS]

00:40:31   for a really long time because he didn't [TS]

00:40:33   want that one very popular feeds [TS]

00:40:39   redirect but it was saying like no one [TS]

00:40:41   no one is forcing you to add an about [TS]

00:40:43   screen that includes a car racing game [TS]

00:40:45   to your to your thing you really don't [TS]

00:40:48   have your display system no no one's [TS]

00:40:50   making you support video podcasts if you [TS]

00:40:51   don't want to no ones deciding you have [TS]

00:40:53   to have a recipe manager and a to-do [TS]

00:40:55   list inside it that's the type of thing [TS]

00:40:58   we respond to this week by hover domain [TS]

00:41:01   names for your passion go to hover.com [TS]

00:41:02   slash ATP to learn more and get 10% off [TS]

00:41:05   your first purchase building your online [TS]

00:41:07   brand has never been more important show [TS]

00:41:09   the world who you are and what you're [TS]

00:41:11   passionate about without tying it to a [TS]

00:41:13   particular publishing platform or a big [TS]

00:41:15   email platform that happens to be [TS]

00:41:17   popular this year or this five years [TS]

00:41:18   because that changes over time and you [TS]

00:41:21   know my first email address was at Juno [TS]

00:41:23   calm and and I when I bought markers at [TS]

00:41:26   Oregon in 2000 that was the last time I [TS]

00:41:28   had to change my email address and tell [TS]

00:41:29   anybody at that oh please I put your [TS]

00:41:30   address book nobody ever likes that I [TS]

00:41:32   also have hosted my own website at my [TS]

00:41:34   own domain name since that time because [TS]

00:41:35   web host change platforms change social [TS]

00:41:38   networks change and it's it's always [TS]

00:41:40   nice to have a domain for your home base [TS]

00:41:42   for what you tell people to represent [TS]

00:41:44   you online for your email address for [TS]

00:41:46   your website have your own domain name [TS]

00:41:48   and if you're gonna do that you got to [TS]

00:41:50   register it somewhere and hover is my [TS]

00:41:52   favorite registrar they have over 400 [TS]

00:41:54   domain extensions from the classics like [TS]

00:41:56   ComNet org to all the new fun ones like [TS]

00:41:59   diamonds dot plumbing there's no tricks [TS]

00:42:01   or shady upsells or scammy add-ons or [TS]

00:42:04   anything like that and they respect your [TS]

00:42:05   privacy by giving you free who is [TS]

00:42:07   privacy [TS]

00:42:07   they have great features to say [TS]

00:42:09   you time like hover connect for fast [TS]

00:42:10   setup or if you want fully advanced DNS [TS]

00:42:13   control they have that too if you need [TS]

00:42:15   any help at all their customer support [TS]

00:42:16   is top-notch it's just a great place to [TS]

00:42:19   register domains I have almost all of [TS]

00:42:21   mine there now and I keep moving more [TS]

00:42:22   there as time goes on [TS]

00:42:23   because it's just Pleasant it's there [TS]

00:42:25   when I need it and it's out of the way [TS]

00:42:26   when I don't it's just what you want out [TS]

00:42:28   of a domain registrar so check it out [TS]

00:42:30   yourself go to hover comm slash ATP to [TS]

00:42:33   learn more and get 10% off your first [TS]

00:42:35   purchase that's hover.com slash ATP [TS]

00:42:37   hover get a domain name for your passion [TS]

00:42:42   so back to ask ATG thankfully thankfully [TS]

00:42:47   we have a quick one to round us out uh [TS]

00:42:49   Stefan Kozlowski writes do you guys [TS]

00:42:52   pronounce the command su do as su do or [TS]

00:42:58   sudo and I will start by saying I have [TS]

00:43:01   always pronounced it sudo and I [TS]

00:43:04   understand that it stands for super user [TS]

00:43:07   do so su do is probably the more [TS]

00:43:11   academically correct answer but I've [TS]

00:43:13   always pronounced it sudo to think about [TS]

00:43:16   this question because I think I do both [TS]

00:43:20   both out loud and both in my head [TS]

00:43:23   depending on context that's the [TS]

00:43:25   conclusion I came to by like tracing [TS]

00:43:27   through the times that I have said it or [TS]

00:43:28   thinking about it I think I I think I do [TS]

00:43:31   both I don't know it's not a satisfying [TS]

00:43:32   answer but I think good the reality I [TS]

00:43:34   pronounce it wrong and I don't care I'm [TS]

00:43:37   proud of it I say sudo and I know it's [TS]

00:43:40   super user do I'm very aware of this [TS]

00:43:43   however I don't care to me sudo is its [TS]

00:43:46   own word and so it gets some [TS]

00:43:47   pronunciation yeah I don't think that's [TS]

00:43:49   wrong that's just one of two very common [TS]

00:43:51   pronunciations like who's to say which [TS]

00:43:52   is I don't even know if that does the [TS]

00:43:54   less common one it may be for all I know [TS]

00:43:56   it's the more common one [TS]

00:43:57   it's a Linux thing it's definitely wrong [TS]

00:44:01   there's always whatever you whatever [TS]

00:44:03   everyone does with Linux a lot of people [TS]

00:44:05   will say it's wrong well I don't know I [TS]

00:44:08   think it's in the running for to being [TS]

00:44:10   the more popular one because like you [TS]

00:44:12   said it is a word PSE you do like that [TS]

00:44:14   the fact that you know people just [TS]

00:44:17   substitute a word they're noticing that [TS]

00:44:18   was when I was talking about I was I was [TS]

00:44:20   just saying like you know basically like [TS]

00:44:22   conceptually in my head I read that as [TS]

00:44:24   pseudo like I read it as a word that and [TS]

00:44:27   I know what it means it's like being [TS]

00:44:29   fluent in a language like I'm not [TS]

00:44:29   thinking about like it's a component [TS]

00:44:31   parts I'm thinking like oh I need to [TS]

00:44:33   pseudo do this command like that is its [TS]

00:44:35   own word in my head I don't think like [TS]

00:44:38   oh I need to superuser do like when I [TS]

00:44:41   make a directory I think Oh make Durer [TS]

00:44:45   like I or mcdr like I think that in my [TS]

00:44:47   head like as I could component parts so [TS]

00:44:50   I don't like think about that is in I [TS]

00:44:52   don't say like you know make Dyer its [TS]

00:44:54   dur for directories so but pseudo to me [TS]

00:44:57   like that has become its own word in my [TS]

00:45:00   head so that's why I pronounce it the [TS]

00:45:01   way I do I don't I don't care about the [TS]

00:45:03   the component parts of it and how [TS]

00:45:04   they're pronounced all right [TS]

00:45:07   John tell me about your blacks black [TS]

00:45:08   screen of death this could have been [TS]

00:45:11   follow up and I'm trying to you know I [TS]

00:45:14   think it's it has wandered a default and [TS]

00:45:16   I was just like practically a weekly [TS]

00:45:18   segment where I complain about my laptop [TS]

00:45:19   in some way you know people gave me so [TS]

00:45:22   much crap when I was complaining about [TS]

00:45:24   my laptop's not systemic complaints [TS]

00:45:28   these are specific complaints for the [TS]

00:45:29   most part sometimes just updates unlike [TS]

00:45:32   my life with the Mac with like the touch [TS]

00:45:34   bar thing was not really a complaint [TS]

00:45:35   about touch part just telling you like I [TS]

00:45:37   tried to use it and it wasn't for me [TS]

00:45:38   like it you know I mean so that's there [TS]

00:45:39   but anyway this is and this this might [TS]

00:45:41   not be a laptop bug but it's a situation [TS]

00:45:44   I find myself in frequently and one of [TS]

00:45:48   those things where I don't know where to [TS]

00:45:49   blame it but it just it makes my overall [TS]

00:45:51   experience with this thing worse I think [TS]

00:45:52   I mentioned it before that so I've got [TS]

00:45:54   this docking station and it's great when [TS]

00:45:57   everything works well but sometimes it [TS]

00:45:59   gets cranky when I undock it so undock [TS]

00:46:03   and I go out you know all undock with it [TS]

00:46:04   in clamshell mode and I'll go off to a [TS]

00:46:06   meeting or something and then I'll [TS]

00:46:07   arrive at the meeting open up my laptop [TS]

00:46:09   and everything about it will work [TS]

00:46:10   perfectly except for the screen is 100% [TS]

00:46:12   black and I used to know that everything [TS]

00:46:15   was working perfectly back when the [TS]

00:46:16   touch bar was not in the you know the [TS]

00:46:18   mode that I changed it to or it just [TS]

00:46:20   shows the function keys all the time [TS]

00:46:21   because I would unlock with touch ID or [TS]

00:46:24   unlock by typing my password into the [TS]

00:46:25   totally black screen and then I could [TS]

00:46:27   command tab and I could see the touch [TS]

00:46:28   bar changing as I command everything's [TS]

00:46:32   working I come command tab [TS]

00:46:33   I'm assuming the track that is working [TS]

00:46:34   if I could see the mouse cursor here to [TS]

00:46:36   be moving I could you know type keyboard [TS]

00:46:38   commands that I know worked in the [TS]

00:46:40   frontmost application you know and like [TS]

00:46:42   I could if it if you could use it [TS]

00:46:43   without seeing the screen it was all [TS]

00:46:45   working for the screen was a hundred [TS]

00:46:46   percent black and nothing I would do to [TS]

00:46:48   that computer sitting there would make [TS]

00:46:50   that screen not be black put it to sleep [TS]

00:46:52   wake it up again and close the lid open [TS]

00:46:53   it the only way I found to bring it back [TS]

00:46:56   is a hardware way where I would use my [TS]

00:46:58   little they have some little dongle [TS]

00:47:02   thingy that goes in the side that gives [TS]

00:47:04   you like a USB port an HDMI and a much [TS]

00:47:06   other crap plug that in the side and [TS]

00:47:08   then plug the the rooms monitor into the [TS]

00:47:13   HDMI port and that would wake up it [TS]

00:47:16   would first of all it would stop my [TS]

00:47:18   machine would start projecting on the on [TS]

00:47:19   the external screen but also would wake [TS]

00:47:21   up the internal display all right so [TS]

00:47:23   that's I've had this book really a long [TS]

00:47:25   time and it's annoying sometimes I've [TS]

00:47:26   had to leave the meeting room go back to [TS]

00:47:28   my desk get my dog oh come back to the [TS]

00:47:30   room plug it in plug in the HDMI monitor [TS]

00:47:31   and then my thing was awake anyway I ran [TS]

00:47:34   to this problem and I'm calling this the [TS]

00:47:35   black screen of death even though it's [TS]

00:47:36   not death it's like in limbo it's alive [TS]

00:47:38   but blind this happened to me where I [TS]

00:47:42   unplugged my thing because I was on hard [TS]

00:47:44   to get home unplugged it and I needed to [TS]

00:47:46   use my laptop at home and I got home and [TS]

00:47:49   opened it up and sure enough black [TS]

00:47:50   screen and I didn't have my little [TS]

00:47:53   dongle because it was back at work so I [TS]

00:47:54   couldn't do the one magic hardware thing [TS]

00:47:56   that makes my screen but I'm back - I [TS]

00:47:58   tried so many other things I tried SS [TS]

00:48:00   aging into it from another machine [TS]

00:48:02   I tried plugging in other things I tried [TS]

00:48:03   getting out my very own Apple branded [TS]

00:48:05   HDMI dongle and plugging it into my [TS]

00:48:07   gaming monitor which is HDMI and turning [TS]

00:48:09   everything on and that didn't wake up [TS]

00:48:11   the screen in the end I had to hard [TS]

00:48:14   reset the thing which really annoyed me [TS]

00:48:16   that's why I spent like 20 minutes [TS]

00:48:18   trying to bring this thing back because [TS]

00:48:19   I was in the middle of a lot of stuff [TS]

00:48:21   you might not support you might be [TS]

00:48:23   surprised to hear that I had a lot of [TS]

00:48:24   windows open I had a lot of things going [TS]

00:48:28   on you know I just I had a lot of [TS]

00:48:31   terminals a lot of shelves and no I [TS]

00:48:32   don't use any one of the million things [TS]

00:48:34   that can let me resume my shelf yes I'm [TS]

00:48:37   sorry I'm disappointing all the people [TS]

00:48:39   who love team x and screen and [TS]

00:48:41   and all the other things to do that's [TS]

00:48:42   right I also use none of those things I [TS]

00:48:44   always have tons of terminal tabs and [TS]

00:48:45   windows open and it's fine [TS]

00:48:46   right anyway I was in or that I lost [TS]

00:48:49   everything that I was working on and had [TS]

00:48:52   to hard reset my computer who wanna [TS]

00:48:53   start reset and the worst part is I'm [TS]

00:48:54   not hardly saying it cuz it crashed I'm [TS]

00:48:56   not hard resetting it because it's [TS]

00:48:57   frozen it's not like everything was fine [TS]

00:49:00   except the screen was a hundred percent [TS]

00:49:01   black so this is really putting a damper [TS]

00:49:03   this bug and the possibility that this [TS]

00:49:06   bug can be there - when it happens it's [TS]

00:49:08   kind of like the month thirteen is out [TS]

00:49:09   of bounds thing where it's like [TS]

00:49:10   everything is mostly working but there's [TS]

00:49:12   some part of it that's not working that [TS]

00:49:14   you feel like someone should notice so I [TS]

00:49:16   you know I would like I think something [TS]

00:49:20   in the operating system should be aware [TS]

00:49:21   after a certain period of time that [TS]

00:49:23   there is a no monitor attached and B the [TS]

00:49:25   screen is entirely black and I don't [TS]

00:49:27   think that's a sustainable state and the [TS]

00:49:29   lid is open I think that set of things [TS]

00:49:32   there should be some assertion in the [TS]

00:49:34   operating system that says if no monitor [TS]

00:49:36   is attached and the lid is open and [TS]

00:49:38   you're awake but the screen but the [TS]

00:49:41   screen is 100% black fix that like make [TS]

00:49:44   it not be like that I'm hoping that's [TS]

00:49:46   the thing that can detect and I don't [TS]

00:49:48   know who to blame maybe I blame the [TS]

00:49:50   docking station maybe it's an OS bug who [TS]

00:49:52   knows but anyway I don't like laptops [TS]

00:49:54   are you on High Sierra on this yes oh no [TS]

00:49:57   no I'm not I'm run regular Sarah sorry [TS]

00:49:59   okay so that sort of it probably isn't [TS]

00:50:01   like a well I guess I just a noob OS bug [TS]

00:50:04   at least footage not like CR was bug [TS]

00:50:05   free either I don't I don't know what it [TS]

00:50:08   is it's just my latest in a long line of [TS]

00:50:10   infuriating sort of bugs on my laptop so [TS]

00:50:15   I can assure you that this is not only [TS]

00:50:18   not a bug that has been fixed in High [TS]

00:50:22   Sierra but it is not unique to your [TS]

00:50:24   laptop because my Marco book Pro that I [TS]

00:50:27   use at work that exhibits this same [TS]

00:50:30   behavior now I wouldn't say that it [TS]

00:50:31   happens all the time I wouldn't even say [TS]

00:50:33   that it happens terribly often but the [TS]

00:50:36   only solution I had come up with for it [TS]

00:50:38   was occasionally I can sleep it and then [TS]

00:50:42   reopen it you know close the lid and [TS]

00:50:44   reopen it and then sometimes it'll come [TS]

00:50:46   back or like you said you know [TS]

00:50:48   disconnect external monitors reconnect [TS]

00:50:50   external monitors but just like you said [TS]

00:50:52   additionally there are times I just have [TS]

00:50:54   to [TS]

00:50:54   just kill the machine and bring it back [TS]

00:50:55   so this is a clamshell problem this is a [TS]

00:50:58   software problem this is not a new [TS]

00:51:01   MacBook Pro problem and that is very sad [TS]

00:51:03   I mean it seems like there must be some [TS]

00:51:05   hardware aspect to it because I don't [TS]

00:51:07   think merely closing the lid and opening [TS]

00:51:09   it I think it's the fact that you're [TS]

00:51:10   attaching an external monitor and [TS]

00:51:11   something about the I've attached a [TS]

00:51:13   monitor please detect that it's there [TS]

00:51:14   and start sending your video signals it [TS]

00:51:16   oh you just yanked it out I have to [TS]

00:51:17   handle that like it's it's related to [TS]

00:51:19   the fact that the hardware configuration [TS]

00:51:22   machine is changing like I've never seen [TS]

00:51:24   it [TS]

00:51:24   you know once the computer is working in [TS]

00:51:26   isolation I'm not plugging anything into [TS]

00:51:28   it I've never seen it happen there where [TS]

00:51:30   I close the lid and open and the screen [TS]

00:51:31   doesn't turn on so I don't know but yeah [TS]

00:51:34   like the these type of problems very [TS]

00:51:37   often waking from sleep problems it's [TS]

00:51:38   not like that but I feel like waking [TS]

00:51:39   from sleep is almost more explicable [TS]

00:51:41   it's like well the computers not even [TS]

00:51:42   awake and so like obviously it's not [TS]

00:51:45   working this is the worst because it's [TS]

00:51:46   it's so clearly so clear especially with [TS]

00:51:48   a touch bar that everything is working [TS]

00:51:50   just fine that the computer is running [TS]

00:51:52   it just refuses to display anything on [TS]

00:51:54   the screen and I find that infuriating I [TS]

00:51:56   should also add since this is apparently [TS]

00:51:58   the airing of grievances it is the [TS]

00:52:00   holiday season after all I should add [TS]

00:52:02   that my Marco Book Pro is now going to [TS]

00:52:06   have to go in for service when I'm out [TS]

00:52:08   over the holidays because it turns out [TS]

00:52:11   if you plug in and remove what is the [TS]

00:52:13   port on the side what is the thunderbolt [TS]

00:52:15   but it's also known as mini displayport [TS]

00:52:19   yeah thank you if you plug and unplug [TS]

00:52:20   mini DisplayPort cables every single day [TS]

00:52:23   all day every day [TS]

00:52:25   turns out they start to fail over time [TS]

00:52:27   so Monday when I got to the office I [TS]

00:52:30   tried to plug in my two LG 4k monitors [TS]

00:52:32   and one of them in particular wouldn't [TS]

00:52:35   plug in for the longest time I would [TS]

00:52:38   switch around cables I switched around [TS]

00:52:40   you know where I was plugging them in it [TS]

00:52:42   was it was not nothing I could do to get [TS]

00:52:44   it could get it to work and then finally [TS]

00:52:47   we I had a actually my head IT guy come [TS]

00:52:52   over and look at it and he plugged in [TS]

00:52:54   his Marco Book Pro and it worked no [TS]

00:52:56   problem immediately unplugged it plugged [TS]

00:52:58   it back in work no problem so it appears [TS]

00:53:01   that either the graphics card is dying [TS]

00:53:03   or the connectors are getting screwed up [TS]

00:53:07   in some way shape or form so I hope [TS]

00:53:10   Marco that in your beloved Marco book [TS]

00:53:11   Pro that you are not often time often [TS]

00:53:13   using the Thunderbolt ports because over [TS]

00:53:15   time after a year or two after a couple [TS]

00:53:17   of years you might find them failing so [TS]

00:53:19   good luck yeah it's one of the things [TS]

00:53:21   that the move to USBC made a lot better [TS]

00:53:24   that USB see as far as I can tell so far [TS]

00:53:28   the connection does wear out over time [TS]

00:53:30   just like many of them do however it [TS]

00:53:33   seems like the parts that wear out are [TS]

00:53:35   mostly in the cable end and not in the [TS]

00:53:37   port end so it is kind of annoying that [TS]

00:53:39   your cable loosens up over time [TS]

00:53:41   especially when it's your power cable to [TS]

00:53:42   your new meant to your new MacBook Pro [TS]

00:53:44   but it does seem like that's probably an [TS]

00:53:48   easier fix long-term that you can [TS]

00:53:50   probably just replace the cable and [TS]

00:53:51   those conditions for USB C but the mini [TS]

00:53:55   DisplayPort connector that then became a [TS]

00:53:56   thunderbolt connector that's never been [TS]

00:53:58   a good connector like you know one of [TS]

00:53:59   the big problems with it is that the [TS]

00:54:01   cables are kind of loose in there like [TS]

00:54:02   there's nothing like holding them in [TS]

00:54:03   really they can just very easily like [TS]

00:54:06   slide out or get a little bit dislodged [TS]

00:54:08   or a little bit like jaw sold and that [TS]

00:54:11   yeah I will defend a lot of great things [TS]

00:54:13   about the 2015 era retina MacBook Pro [TS]

00:54:16   however the design of the thunderbolt [TS]

00:54:20   port is not one yep so I kind of wish I [TS]

00:54:24   had a thunderbolt 100 but one I'm sorry [TS]

00:54:26   a touch bar one but then ain't never [TS]

00:54:29   gonna happen my IT guy refuses to buy [TS]

00:54:32   any touch bar MacBook Pros and maybe [TS]

00:54:35   it's because he's smarter than me yeah [TS]

00:54:36   well I mean think about it from the [TS]

00:54:38   point of view of an IT manager at a [TS]

00:54:40   company like a computer that seems to [TS]

00:54:44   have a pretty high keyboard failure rate [TS]

00:54:47   compared to most computers and and again [TS]

00:54:50   if people who defend this keyboard even [TS]

00:54:52   if that rate is 20% that's still really [TS]

00:54:55   high for a computer that has only [TS]

00:54:57   existed for a year if that's the kind of [TS]

00:54:59   failure rate you see on a pool of these [TS]

00:55:02   new computers and if buying them would [TS]

00:55:05   have to would make you have to like [TS]

00:55:06   rebuy a whole bunch of dongles or [TS]

00:55:09   display things or projecting things or [TS]

00:55:11   things like that for like the whole [TS]

00:55:12   office you can totally understand why an [TS]

00:55:15   IT manager would be like yeah that's not [TS]

00:55:18   oh yeah that's not worth it like [TS]

00:55:19   we can't we can't afford the down time [TS]

00:55:21   for the keyboards that's a lot of work [TS]

00:55:22   for the IT people to have to like you [TS]

00:55:25   know get the pull those out of service [TS]

00:55:26   from from the company when they when the [TS]

00:55:28   keyboards break get them repaired put [TS]

00:55:30   them back in the service like you know [TS]

00:55:32   figure out things in the meantime like [TS]

00:55:33   that's a huge burden on an IT staff and [TS]

00:55:36   even even before all that you consider [TS]

00:55:38   all the dongle stuff so that makes total [TS]

00:55:41   sense like I totally get it and that's [TS]

00:55:42   honestly that's probably why Apple still [TS]

00:55:45   sells the 2015 model new in the Apple [TS]

00:55:48   Store today they probably sell a ton of [TS]

00:55:50   them to big corporate purchasers who [TS]

00:55:52   just want what they've been buying for [TS]

00:55:54   years because they know it's fine [TS]

00:55:56   they're already equipped for and it's [TS]

00:55:57   pretty reliable except when you have to [TS]

00:56:00   replace your Thunderbolt port we are [TS]

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00:57:43   rethink what your money can do we have [TS]

00:57:49   somehow accidentally procrastinated for [TS]

00:57:52   an hour and 20 minutes by my clock but [TS]

00:57:55   we should probably talk about the iMac [TS]

00:57:57   Pro and we for me I started to have a [TS]

00:58:01   holiday party and made it through about [TS]

00:58:04   a half a drink because I was very busy [TS]

00:58:06   tonight so I'm sad to report ladies and [TS]

00:58:09   gentlemen that this is not a holiday [TS]

00:58:10   party for me and I'm going to have to [TS]

00:58:12   endure this sober and I'm doing it for [TS]

00:58:14   you the listener so all right guys tell [TS]

00:58:18   me about what's going on what you have [TS]

00:58:20   to endure this aren't you sitting in [TS]

00:58:21   front of a 5k iMac right now I'm mostly [TS]

00:58:24   giving you a hard time I am and sitting [TS]

00:58:25   in front of a 5k iMac so you're an iMac [TS]

00:58:27   buyer this is a computer that could [TS]

00:58:29   potentially be for you you like this [TS]

00:58:31   kind of computer I do I do I'm mostly [TS]

00:58:33   giving you to a heart yeah don't you do [TS]

00:58:34   a lot of video transcoding and buy all [TS]

00:58:36   of Apple stuff in space gray you know [TS]

00:58:38   the the I don't the sick thing about the [TS]

00:58:41   iMac Pro is the thing that I think [TS]

00:58:43   appeals most to me about it is the fact [TS]

00:58:45   that it's Space Gray because I think [TS]

00:58:46   that is so hot it's so ridiculous [TS]

00:58:48   that'll be the first to tell you that is [TS]

00:58:50   utterly truly ridiculous that the thing [TS]

00:58:53   I'm most excited about is the color but [TS]

00:58:55   oh my god it looks so good and those [TS]

00:58:56   accessories look so good no III snark in [TS]

00:59:01   if you're not a longtime ATP listener [TS]

00:59:02   there I don't remember which episode it [TS]

00:59:05   was you know and I probably won't [TS]

00:59:06   remember to put in the show notes but it [TS]

00:59:08   was early on in our run yeah well it was [TS]

00:59:10   all of them but no early on in our run [TS]

00:59:11   it just so happened that I knew we were [TS]

00:59:15   going to be talking about the Mac Pro [TS]

00:59:16   and I don't remember why because there [TS]

00:59:17   was no news about it but we were gonna [TS]

00:59:19   be talking about the Mac Pro and I made [TS]

00:59:21   the mistake of bringing my drink [TS]

00:59:23   upstairs with me in into the office [TS]

00:59:26   while I recorded no I didn't spill it on [TS]

00:59:28   anything but that part wasn't the [TS]

00:59:30   mistake the mistake was that I also [TS]

00:59:32   brought the bottle with me and by the [TS]

00:59:34   end of that episode I had had quite the [TS]

00:59:36   holiday party all by myself and so [TS]

00:59:39   anyway yeah you it's very embarrassing [TS]

00:59:41   and I and I won't actually I probably [TS]

00:59:42   won't link it because I am embarrassed [TS]

00:59:44   by it and I shouldn't have done it but [TS]

00:59:45   you know it is what it is and you only [TS]

00:59:47   once anyway the iMac prout does appeal [TS]

00:59:50   to me we should we should do a kind of [TS]

00:59:51   an overview in just a moment it does [TS]

00:59:53   appeal to me I don't think I find it [TS]

00:59:55   worth all of that money I'm not saying [TS]

00:59:58   that it's an unreasonable price I'm not [TS]

00:59:59   saying [TS]

00:59:59   saying [TS]

01:00:00   being that it should be lower I'm just [TS]

01:00:01   saying I have a really nice iMac in [TS]

01:00:03   front of me and yes I do transcode [TS]

01:00:06   things a lot yes I am getting into video [TS]

01:00:07   now but sitting here now I don't feel [TS]

01:00:12   like I need a new computer which is [TS]

01:00:14   usually stage one in case you buying a [TS]

01:00:16   new computer so anyway Marco tell me [TS]

01:00:18   about what this is what this iMac pro is [TS]

01:00:20   all about we actually do but there's [TS]

01:00:22   still a lot of big unknowns about it [TS]

01:00:24   because as we record this it is well [TS]

01:00:26   actually are they are they gonna launch [TS]

01:00:28   it at 3:00 in the morning tonight oh I [TS]

01:00:30   think you're right are we just gonna [TS]

01:00:30   maybe I should start my holiday party I [TS]

01:00:32   have to keep podcasting until the [TS]

01:00:34   configurator goes live and I I really [TS]

01:00:37   don't want to do that but that there [TS]

01:00:39   would be there's something to be said [TS]

01:00:40   for how funny that would be and I will [TS]

01:00:42   go downstairs and get myself more water [TS]

01:00:44   and buy bottle and we can do a holiday [TS]

01:00:47   party if that's what it takes I I'm not [TS]

01:00:50   staying up til 3:00 in the morning I'm [TS]

01:00:52   us me and the listeners yeah oh I'm [TS]

01:00:54   gonna because like the thing is like for [TS]

01:00:55   me like the Christmas season is way too [TS]

01:00:57   busy for me to buy a new desktop and set [TS]

01:01:01   it up and move my stuff over and [TS]

01:01:03   everything like I'm way way too busy for [TS]

01:01:05   a while [TS]

01:01:06   so if I just wait until the morning to [TS]

01:01:09   order mine if I order one I mean I'm [TS]

01:01:12   still telling myself if I said that I [TS]

01:01:16   took pause but I don't want to ruin your [TS]

01:01:17   flow so I just I just bit my tongue but [TS]

01:01:20   you're gonna order one now it may not be [TS]

01:01:21   tomorrow I will I believe that it may [TS]

01:01:23   not be tomorrow but you're gonna order [TS]

01:01:24   one I mean it's probably it's where [TS]

01:01:26   we're gonna be at least eight in the [TS]

01:01:27   morning like I'm not gonna wake up a [TS]

01:01:28   three [TS]

01:01:29   maybe I mean I might wait until 8:00 so [TS]

01:01:32   anyway all this is to say at the moment [TS]

01:01:33   that we're recording we don't know any [TS]

01:01:35   of the pricing and the configuration [TS]

01:01:38   options really like we know what options [TS]

01:01:41   will be available roughly but we don't [TS]

01:01:43   know if there are certain combinations [TS]

01:01:45   that they will require we don't know [TS]

01:01:47   some of the finer details of some of the [TS]

01:01:49   options the so that the core counts are [TS]

01:01:53   gonna be 8 10 14 and 18 but the 14 and [TS]

01:01:57   18 aren't available until quote early [TS]

01:01:59   next year we don't know what that means [TS]

01:02:00   really that could mean in two weeks or [TS]

01:02:02   that could mean in three months so [TS]

01:02:05   there's a whole lot of unknowns and and [TS]

01:02:07   yeah and the biggest thing is that we [TS]

01:02:08   only know the base price at this moment [TS]

01:02:10   we only know that it starts at $5,000 [TS]

01:02:12   and [TS]

01:02:13   is 8-core one terabyte and I think 32 [TS]

01:02:17   things around which is a great like [TS]

01:02:19   that's an awesome compete like that is [TS]

01:02:20   my iMac but with twice the cores like my [TS]

01:02:23   iMac is 30 gram you know it was the top [TS]

01:02:26   CPU at the time I bought it which was in [TS]

01:02:28   2014 and and that was $4,300 or [TS]

01:02:34   something like that at the time I think [TS]

01:02:36   the top iMac is slightly cheaper now but [TS]

01:02:38   it's like when you when you spec up an [TS]

01:02:41   iMac to be one terabyte of SSD and 3232 [TS]

01:02:45   because of ram you're already getting [TS]

01:02:47   about four thousand dollars like you're [TS]

01:02:49   near that point and so for this to be [TS]

01:02:52   eight cores starting at $5,000 and for [TS]

01:02:55   it to be the zi online with ECC Ram [TS]

01:02:57   workstation you yeah like way better GPU [TS]

01:03:00   faster SSD like and a whole lot of extra [TS]

01:03:03   stuff like am i reading correctly for [TS]

01:03:05   like from the reviews that it comes with [TS]

01:03:07   all three peripherals it comes with a [TS]

01:03:09   trackpad keyboard and mouse it's so hard [TS]

01:03:11   to tell from these early reviews because [TS]

01:03:13   like you said about the pricing you also [TS]

01:03:14   like Apple just you know gives you a [TS]

01:03:17   bunch of stuff as I here you go they [TS]

01:03:18   don't they don't say you know wouldn't [TS]

01:03:20   even be possible to order it this way or [TS]

01:03:23   would you have to like say yeah you can [TS]

01:03:25   buy all these input devices but you only [TS]

01:03:27   get to pick one you know to come for [TS]

01:03:29   free with your with your iMac Pro this [TS]

01:03:32   is why you're gonna win the bet you're [TS]

01:03:34   gonna make me buy a whole second I might [TS]

01:03:36   just get a black trackpad and a black [TS]

01:03:39   mouse that's the real the real black tax [TS]

01:03:44   whole second machine no more like $300 [TS]

01:03:49   extra yeah I lamented the 150 bucks or [TS]

01:03:51   whatever was for the black book and this [TS]

01:03:53   is a whole new world anyway so yeah so [TS]

01:03:58   all those it to say pricing is still a [TS]

01:03:59   big unknown for us for like all the [TS]

01:04:01   details like the configuration that the [TS]

01:04:04   reviewers all had was 10 core so it's [TS]

01:04:07   one step up in the processor line from 8 [TS]

01:04:09   to 10 core and I believe it was was it [TS]

01:04:11   64 gigs for one 128 bytes of RAM okay [TS]

01:04:14   yeah so that's that's probably going to [TS]

01:04:16   be a you know a $7,000 configuration [TS]

01:04:18   yeah and the big the big sort of [TS]

01:04:20   nonlinear price increases are always [TS]

01:04:22   going to be 128 gigs of ram and 4 [TS]

01:04:24   terabyte SSD those are going to like [TS]

01:04:25   as much as a car like I never like it's [TS]

01:04:29   double the price of the of the size [TS]

01:04:30   that's half as much nope it is not it is [TS]

01:04:32   more no it's not yeah it's gonna be like [TS]

01:04:34   you know one terabyte comes to that 2 [TS]

01:04:36   terabytes might be like you know plus [TS]

01:04:37   400 and then 4 terabytes might be like [TS]

01:04:40   plus 1200 it's gonna be like that kind [TS]

01:04:42   of jump like yeah it might even be more [TS]

01:04:44   than that because these are big and the [TS]

01:04:46   interesting thing about these these [TS]

01:04:47   computers and we knew this already but I [TS]

01:04:49   think people are relearning it for the [TS]

01:04:50   second time because we saw these [TS]

01:04:51   machines the WDC like actually [TS]

01:04:53   physically saw them mm-hmm and in my [TS]

01:04:55   case touch them even though you weren't [TS]

01:04:56   supposed to person but they're there's [TS]

01:05:03   no upgrade ability in this this is a [TS]

01:05:05   question we asked the person who's there [TS]

01:05:07   like you know is the RAM Sarge and the [TS]

01:05:08   Border's in a slots he said it's in [TS]

01:05:10   slots but you can't get at them like [TS]

01:05:12   there's no little door for you to [TS]

01:05:13   upgrade the RAM there's like you you can [TS]

01:05:16   figure this machine from Apple and you [TS]

01:05:17   buy it and that's it now in theory you [TS]

01:05:21   could like I fix it could probably find [TS]

01:05:22   a way to open this thing up and take out [TS]

01:05:24   the RAM and upgrade it like there's [TS]

01:05:25   nothing really stopping you from doing [TS]

01:05:27   it's not like it's locked with the key [TS]

01:05:29   or whatever except for perhaps a secure [TS]

01:05:31   boot boot thing which we'll get to in a [TS]

01:05:32   minute but who knows how they're you [TS]

01:05:34   know integrating that with their RAM but [TS]

01:05:35   essentially there are no upgradable [TS]

01:05:38   parts inside this thing that you are [TS]

01:05:42   allowed to change or that you could [TS]

01:05:43   bring it to an Apple store and say I'd [TS]

01:05:45   like to buy more RAM can you put more [TS]

01:05:46   RAM in this room the apples because they [TS]

01:05:47   know it the RAM that you got is what you [TS]

01:05:49   kind of same thing with upgrading to CPU [TS]

01:05:51   or any sort of Oh stuff like that which [TS]

01:05:53   if you're gonna have a machine that's [TS]

01:05:54   totally sealed up this is the one to do [TS]

01:05:56   it on because the iMac the whole point [TS]

01:05:58   of it is it's all in one right and you [TS]

01:06:00   know the Mac Pro is coming and that that [TS]

01:06:02   that really highlights what we think [TS]

01:06:04   will be a very important difference [TS]

01:06:06   between the iMac Pro in the Mac Pro the [TS]

01:06:09   iMac Pro has the freedom map to say 100% [TS]

01:06:12   sealed box configure the way you wanted [TS]

01:06:14   and that's it you know no doors no flaps [TS]

01:06:16   no upgrading after the fact it's just [TS]

01:06:18   the Machine you get is a machine you get [TS]

01:06:20   leaving the paving the way for the Mac [TS]

01:06:23   Pro to take the opposite choice so some [TS]

01:06:25   people are kind of annoyed at that but I [TS]

01:06:27   feel like it is a reasonably smart [TS]

01:06:30   differentiation and differentiation [TS]

01:06:32   between these two machines so it's clear [TS]

01:06:34   to you why would I buy this one machine [TS]

01:06:35   over the other it's like what you want [TS]

01:06:36   if you want everything in one [TS]

01:06:37   and beautiful and elegant and simple and [TS]

01:06:40   clean and sealed up and done and done [TS]

01:06:43   it's the iMac and if you want the other [TS]

01:06:45   thing it's the Mac Pro well I mean it to [TS]

01:06:47   be fair we don't actually know yet well [TS]

01:06:49   had a Mac Pro will be upgradable way [TS]

01:06:52   down but we're hoping I mean the the [TS]

01:06:54   tube was slightly upgradable like Ram [TS]

01:06:59   you can you could add Ram that's it you [TS]

01:07:02   could swap out the SSD to I don't think [TS]

01:07:04   anybody ever ever sold the SSDs [TS]

01:07:06   separately yeah it was it wasn't like I [TS]

01:07:08   think it was like they MDOT - whatever [TS]

01:07:10   thing it wasn't entirely you know you [TS]

01:07:12   can be goodbye so the whole point is it [TS]

01:07:13   was you could open the case and pull [TS]

01:07:15   things out of it whereas this for all we [TS]

01:07:16   know there's like it's glued together [TS]

01:07:18   like I don't even know how easy just [TS]

01:07:19   even get inside this thing I mean it's [TS]

01:07:21   probably like every other iMac like you [TS]

01:07:23   know all the components appear to face [TS]

01:07:25   the back but you can't open it from the [TS]

01:07:27   back probably so you probably have to [TS]

01:07:29   like remove the screen and glued on [TS]

01:07:33   right right and yes oh sorry it's [TS]

01:07:35   probably like magnets like the other one [TS]

01:07:37   but anyway yeah it's probably very [TS]

01:07:38   similar to the construction of the [TS]

01:07:40   27-inch iMac today so you probably can [TS]

01:07:43   get into it but you don't want to [TS]

01:07:45   because it involves so much like surgery [TS]

01:07:48   on the screen that laypeople really [TS]

01:07:51   shouldn't do it because you will risk [TS]

01:07:53   damaging things we're getting dust in [TS]

01:07:54   there or whatever so it's something that [TS]

01:07:57   like yeah like Apple can do it like [TS]

01:07:59   their technicians can do it but you [TS]

01:08:01   shouldn't it looks pretty clean inside [TS]

01:08:02   from the pictures they have on Apple's [TS]

01:08:04   website if you look inside there if the [TS]

01:08:06   back came off in a reasonable way it's [TS]

01:08:08   pretty nicely laid out the RAM is really [TS]

01:08:09   easy to get to it's sitting right there [TS]

01:08:11   in little dim slots you could pull it [TS]

01:08:13   right out like it's got a nice little [TS]

01:08:14   heat pipe arrangement but the central [TS]

01:08:16   heat sink and the two fans and like it [TS]

01:08:18   looks nice in there it looks like they [TS]

01:08:19   you know sweated the details and made it [TS]

01:08:21   look a nice on the inside even though [TS]

01:08:22   nobody's ever gonna see that except for [TS]

01:08:24   an Apple technician and you know some [TS]

01:08:26   part of it breaks or something yeah but [TS]

01:08:28   ultimately like I am very excited about [TS]

01:08:31   this machine I was I was a little [TS]

01:08:33   excited about it when it was announced [TS]

01:08:34   this past summer but I'm even more [TS]

01:08:38   excited now that we're getting [TS]

01:08:39   performance numbers and that we're [TS]

01:08:41   getting the first reviews that have been [TS]

01:08:42   out the best review that I've seen so [TS]

01:08:44   far is the mkbhd review he's had it for [TS]

01:08:47   he said about a week and he's a hard [TS]

01:08:49   user only he [TS]

01:08:50   creates and produces very high-end video [TS]

01:08:53   content so he's he's editing like high [TS]

01:08:55   high bandwidth like high resolution [TS]

01:08:57   video on this thing and and that's [TS]

01:08:59   really that really pushes it one of the [TS]

01:09:01   major concerns I had with the iMac Pro [TS]

01:09:03   when we first heard about it was I [TS]

01:09:05   believe we talked about it in our live [TS]

01:09:07   show at everybody this past summer which [TS]

01:09:08   my main concern was like how does it [TS]

01:09:12   handle being under load because my my [TS]

01:09:14   regular 5k iMac it's a very graceful [TS]

01:09:18   machine until you really ask it to do [TS]

01:09:21   something hard and then you hear [TS]

01:09:23   annoying fan noise and the fan the [TS]

01:09:25   family spins up and it's loud and it's [TS]

01:09:27   it's just kind of ungraceful and a Mac [TS]

01:09:30   Pro historically has not done that um [TS]

01:09:33   you know Mac Pros usually are able to [TS]

01:09:36   take pretty much any workload and still [TS]

01:09:38   be dead silent or close enough to sound [TS]

01:09:40   that you won't hear it in an average [TS]

01:09:42   room and so I really missed that like [TS]

01:09:46   going back to a consumer level product [TS]

01:09:48   like the regular iMac or a laptop like [TS]

01:09:51   when it's when it when you put under [TS]

01:09:53   load and you hear the fan spinning I [TS]

01:09:54   always kind of feel like yeah this [TS]

01:09:55   really isn't made to do this very much [TS]

01:09:57   and you know so anyway III heat and how [TS]

01:10:02   it deals with heat is is a big question [TS]

01:10:04   mark for me upgradability is kind of a [TS]

01:10:07   known thing at this point like the [TS]

01:10:09   laptops haven't haven't been [TS]

01:10:10   meaningfully upgradable since 2012 the [TS]

01:10:14   desktops you know the the only thing [TS]

01:10:16   that's been upgradeable about the [TS]

01:10:17   desktops anytime recently has been RAM [TS]

01:10:18   and even that is slowly fading away and [TS]

01:10:21   the rest of the lineup so really to me [TS]

01:10:25   like the upgrade ability thing is it's [TS]

01:10:29   it's certainly something it's [TS]

01:10:30   significant it matters I think more for [TS]

01:10:34   long term servicing costs than [TS]

01:10:37   necessarily getting a good deal up front [TS]

01:10:39   like in the olden days you'd be able to [TS]

01:10:41   buy a macbook or whatever or a power [TS]

01:10:45   book and go get third-party ram from [TS]

01:10:47   crucial or owz or something like that [TS]

01:10:49   and save a bunch of money on a high-end [TS]

01:10:51   figuration by buying the parts yourself [TS]

01:10:52   and putting them in from third parties [TS]

01:10:54   those days are long gone for the entire [TS]

01:10:57   lineup desktop to laptop like the only [TS]

01:10:59   thing you can still do that for is [TS]

01:11:01   Casey's iMac and you shouldn't because [TS]

01:11:04   look what happened to Katie's iMac I was [TS]

01:11:06   waiting for somebody to make that joke [TS]

01:11:07   and prepared to make it myself the [TS]

01:11:09   reason you shouldn't but like I think [TS]

01:11:11   the second use case is just longevity is [TS]

01:11:13   if you buy it then you're happy like you [TS]

01:11:14   buy a 32 gig arrangement and you're [TS]

01:11:15   happy and it turns out that this thing [TS]

01:11:17   is so reliable and the screen just looks [TS]

01:11:19   gorgeous year after year that you're the [TS]

01:11:20   thing is five years old and you're like [TS]

01:11:22   you know what this thing still does [TS]

01:11:23   everything I needed to do but I could [TS]

01:11:26   use a little bit more RAM because I [TS]

01:11:27   thought 32 would be enough for me to do [TS]

01:11:29   what I needed to do forever but the [TS]

01:11:31   latest version of adobe's whatever sweet [TS]

01:11:32   is just a ram monster and I would really [TS]

01:11:34   like to have 64 and that's where you [TS]

01:11:36   want the ability to say yeah I used it [TS]

01:11:38   for five years for 32 and it was great [TS]

01:11:40   to extend the life of this machine [TS]

01:11:41   letting me upgraded to 64 and you [TS]

01:11:44   totally could on this machine if you [TS]

01:11:45   could get inside it in a reasonable way [TS]

01:11:47   but you can't so if there was a little [TS]

01:11:49   RAM door you would yank out the RAM five [TS]

01:11:51   years later and put in some new RAM and [TS]

01:11:52   same caveats about third-party RAM yeah [TS]

01:11:54   the whole reason Apple doesn't want you [TS]

01:11:56   doing that makes sense [TS]

01:11:57   but it really does extend the life of [TS]

01:11:58   the machines if you can add an SSD to a [TS]

01:12:01   thing that had a spinning disk or at a [TS]

01:12:02   faster SSD or expand the RAM and that's [TS]

01:12:04   basically all you've been able to do [TS]

01:12:06   with any Mac for the longest time if [TS]

01:12:07   you've been able to do anything at all [TS]

01:12:09   but it does extend the life of your [TS]

01:12:10   machines I mean just my Mac Pro's I'll [TS]

01:12:12   be the obvious example where so much of [TS]

01:12:14   the insides have been swapped and [TS]

01:12:15   rotated and just gotten better and [TS]

01:12:17   better over time that extended life of [TS]

01:12:18   the machine if it was still the way I [TS]

01:12:20   bought it when it was new it would be [TS]

01:12:21   completely unusable right now oh yeah [TS]

01:12:23   but like you know but that was also in [TS]

01:12:26   many ways a product of the times that it [TS]

01:12:28   went through like the SSD transition is [TS]

01:12:31   you know that's not gonna happen again [TS]

01:12:32   right listen maybe we move to like those [TS]

01:12:35   RAM computers yeah but even just the [TS]

01:12:36   video card I've got so like three or [TS]

01:12:38   four video cards in this thing each one [TS]

01:12:39   faster than the next that's really [TS]

01:12:41   extended the the you know the gaming [TS]

01:12:42   life of the machine yeah it's true but [TS]

01:12:44   so but anyway like I feel like like most [TS]

01:12:47   of those days are over like there was a [TS]

01:12:48   good section on connected this week [TS]

01:12:50   where Steven talked about the video card [TS]

01:12:52   upgrade ability of previous Mac pros and [TS]

01:12:54   like usually like you know people who [TS]

01:12:57   want upgradeable Mac pros like they [TS]

01:13:00   usually think of it if they haven't done [TS]

01:13:01   it before they think of it from like a [TS]

01:13:03   PC builder perspective where if you're [TS]

01:13:05   in the PC world but you know building [TS]

01:13:07   Windows PCs you can like swap out video [TS]

01:13:09   cards with all sorts of different great [TS]

01:13:11   options all the time everything costs [TS]

01:13:13   very little money relatively speaking [TS]

01:13:14   and you have tons of great options when [TS]

01:13:16   the Mac world you [TS]

01:13:18   only ever been limited to like the [TS]

01:13:20   handful of cards that actually supported [TS]

01:13:23   the back and this has been true of many [TS]

01:13:25   peripherals even when you even when the [TS]

01:13:27   Mac Pros work the bore the tower style [TS]

01:13:28   like what you have them but I used to [TS]

01:13:29   have like you couldn't just put in any [TS]

01:13:32   PCI Express card in there and have it [TS]

01:13:34   work like many of them would but most of [TS]

01:13:37   them wouldn't and or they or they would [TS]

01:13:39   work partially it was more than you'd [TS]

01:13:41   think you did more than you think of you [TS]

01:13:42   at the flashmob because it's mostly just [TS]

01:13:44   based on the architecture like the Apple [TS]

01:13:46   makes drivers forward usually for the [TS]

01:13:47   architecture not just for a very [TS]

01:13:49   specific card so a lot more cards than [TS]

01:13:51   would work anything but even if it was [TS]

01:13:52   just a handful of cards it's not yeah [TS]

01:13:54   you don't have the selection of a PC [TS]

01:13:56   builder but to have the option to put a [TS]

01:13:58   faster card in there even if you only [TS]

01:14:00   have literally one choice there's only [TS]

01:14:02   one choice that you can buy that is [TS]

01:14:03   faster than your current one it's way [TS]

01:14:05   better than zero choices and one of the [TS]

01:14:07   things I've put in the notes here this [TS]

01:14:09   is a tweet from bare feets the website [TS]

01:14:11   that does lots of this kind of testing [TS]

01:14:12   emphasizes this fact they were you know [TS]

01:14:15   they have benchmarks like these are [TS]

01:14:16   these are OpenCL benchmarks so there are [TS]

01:14:18   things that run on the GPU of the iMac [TS]

01:14:21   Pro and then they pitted it against a [TS]

01:14:25   2010 Mac Pro and the 2010 Mac Pro was [TS]

01:14:28   faster why because the 2010 Mac Pro has [TS]

01:14:32   a replaceable video card and like Margot [TS]

01:14:34   said there's not a lot of choices for [TS]

01:14:35   what you can put in the 2010 Mac Pro but [TS]

01:14:38   there are a couple of them and one of [TS]

01:14:40   them they were able to put in there was [TS]

01:14:42   one that is that uses the same [TS]

01:14:44   architecture as the GPU and the IMAX Pro [TS]

01:14:46   so it same the Vega or every perhaps at [TS]

01:14:50   64 so they put that card in and because [TS]

01:14:53   it's the same architecture and because [TS]

01:14:55   Mac OS has drivers for it because of the [TS]

01:14:58   iMac pro it's able to use that card and [TS]

01:15:00   just so happens to the card that they [TS]

01:15:02   could fit in that gigantic 2010 Mac Pro [TS]

01:15:04   tower that has tons of room for cooling [TS]

01:15:06   and everything that card is just faster [TS]

01:15:07   than the one that's in the iMac because [TS]

01:15:09   the iMac is a slower card it's probably [TS]

01:15:11   clocked slower because it's a more [TS]

01:15:13   thermally compromised environment and so [TS]

01:15:15   if what you care about is performance [TS]

01:15:17   GPU performance in your 3d programmer [TS]

01:15:19   and your open CL whatever program 2010 [TS]

01:15:22   Mac Pro is faster than an iMac Pro and I [TS]

01:15:25   think this also highlights the role of [TS]

01:15:28   the Mac Pro might play will the Mac Pro [TS]

01:15:30   have an upgradeable GPU [TS]

01:15:32   maybe maybe not but I think the most [TS]

01:15:33   important thing for these type of [TS]

01:15:35   computers for the Mac Pro or even for [TS]

01:15:37   the iMac Pro is to be super fast when [TS]

01:15:40   you're release which I think this this [TS]

01:15:41   qualifies like it's got lots of course [TS]

01:15:42   in the CPUs and if you have an [TS]

01:15:44   application then you use them it will [TS]

01:15:45   really make a difference in your life [TS]

01:15:47   the storage on this Mac Pro is really [TS]

01:15:50   really fast that the iMac pro is really [TS]

01:15:52   fast it's faster than the laptops right [TS]

01:15:53   and so that makes it the fastest Mac [TS]

01:15:56   Apple has because the old Mac Pro is so [TS]

01:15:58   old and it's got you know the GPU is [TS]

01:16:02   plenty fast right but to fulfill its [TS]

01:16:04   role as the iMac Pro I feel like next [TS]

01:16:08   year there needs to be a much faster GPU [TS]

01:16:11   in the iMac Pro or you know like they [TS]

01:16:12   needs they need to update the internals [TS]

01:16:15   of this iMac Pro on a reasonable basis [TS]

01:16:18   fine they're not upgradeable fine but [TS]

01:16:20   Apple itself has to upgrade them and [TS]

01:16:22   revise them because otherwise it will [TS]

01:16:25   just get more and more embarrassing that [TS]

01:16:26   your 2010 Mac Pro every year you can buy [TS]

01:16:28   a new GPU to get you you know a 2x speed [TS]

01:16:30   boost and whatever it is that you're [TS]

01:16:31   doing and the iMac pro year after year [TS]

01:16:34   like the internals don't get upgraded [TS]

01:16:36   and if the Mac Pro is there isn't [TS]

01:16:38   upgradable same story technology marches [TS]

01:16:41   on and at the very very top end Apple [TS]

01:16:44   has to be committed to releasing [TS]

01:16:46   computers that are competitive with the [TS]

01:16:48   top end and then revising their [TS]

01:16:50   computers to continue to be competitive [TS]

01:16:51   and if they don't want to revise them [TS]

01:16:53   then merely make the certain components [TS]

01:16:54   upgradable and people will buy a PC Vega [TS]

01:16:58   card that is faster than the one that [TS]

01:17:00   they had before and flash it and throw [TS]

01:17:03   it in there and it will work because the [TS]

01:17:04   drivers work with every car in that [TS]

01:17:05   architecture and I'll be happy that my [TS]

01:17:09   biggest concern here is the thermals and [TS]

01:17:12   I believe them when they say they've [TS]

01:17:15   gotten this - they've gotten the iMac [TS]

01:17:18   enclosure to cool the the up to 500 watt [TS]

01:17:21   load that they are putting in here that [TS]

01:17:23   it's designed for but it seems like [TS]

01:17:26   there's not a lot of headroom like and [TS]

01:17:28   this was this was exactly the problem [TS]

01:17:29   they had with the 2013 cylinder Mac Pro [TS]

01:17:32   you know Craig federighi famously said [TS]

01:17:34   that they designs those into a thermal [TS]

01:17:35   corner it seems like the 2013 Mac Pro [TS]

01:17:37   was designed with just barely enough [TS]

01:17:40   cooling power and even then it wasn't [TS]

01:17:43   really quite enough because of the the [TS]

01:17:44   way the dual GPUs got so hot [TS]

01:17:46   with this seems like they went into it [TS]

01:17:49   like you know John you mentioned last [TS]

01:17:51   thing we talked about this that like [TS]

01:17:52   they went into the design brief of this [TS]

01:17:54   seemingly with like fit Pro workstation [TS]

01:17:58   grade components into the iMac enclosure [TS]

01:18:00   well why like why couldn't it be a [TS]

01:18:03   little bit differently shaped why [TS]

01:18:04   couldn't it be designed an enclosure [TS]

01:18:06   that supports program components like [TS]

01:18:08   the reverse exactly and so because of [TS]

01:18:11   that because they they went in with the [TS]

01:18:13   apparent goal or requirement of fit this [TS]

01:18:17   into the iMac case that was never [TS]

01:18:19   designed for this amount of thermal load [TS]

01:18:20   I mean the this case was designed in [TS]

01:18:24   2012 or was launched in 2012 and it was [TS]

01:18:27   launched with the first well with the [TS]

01:18:28   second-generation 27-inch iMac even the [TS]

01:18:31   retina one was not designed for this [TS]

01:18:33   like it is a this was before the 5k we [TS]

01:18:36   we have shoved so much stuff into the [TS]

01:18:38   exact same sized enclosure that in 2012 [TS]

01:18:41   they probably were not thinking of that [TS]

01:18:43   when they designed the the shape and [TS]

01:18:45   ventilation and and size and everything [TS]

01:18:48   else with that in mind with the thermals [TS]

01:18:51   as a severely limiting factor probably [TS]

01:18:54   here I worried that on two fronts number [TS]

01:18:58   one I worried like how much did they [TS]

01:19:00   have to clock down the GPU and the CPUs [TS]

01:19:03   to fit here and that gets to what you [TS]

01:19:07   were saying of like if they're on the [TS]

01:19:08   ragged edge of their thing if they've [TS]

01:19:10   had to down clock things there are [TS]

01:19:12   basically that they couldn't support the [TS]

01:19:14   cooling and the only way they could get [TS]

01:19:16   at things to fit is they had to say well [TS]

01:19:17   that's just slightly down clock [TS]

01:19:18   everything that and that I don't know if [TS]

01:19:19   that's true that's just been a rumor for [TS]

01:19:21   a while that like basically all the [TS]

01:19:22   components are running it you know [TS]

01:19:24   slower speeds from the GPUs and the CPUs [TS]

01:19:27   and the RAM and every part of the system [TS]

01:19:29   not a lot down clock but just a little [TS]

01:19:30   bit and the only reason you do that is [TS]

01:19:32   because you couldn't you couldn't cool [TS]

01:19:35   them running at their their full speed [TS]

01:19:37   and that I mean maybe that that's a [TS]

01:19:39   compromise for like hey this is a slim [TS]

01:19:41   computer it's all in one you don't have [TS]

01:19:42   a big box you don't have a big thing or [TS]

01:19:43   whatever I don't think it's unreasonable [TS]

01:19:45   but it does you know optimistically say [TS]

01:19:49   this now further emphasizes why you [TS]

01:19:52   might want the upcoming Mac Pro because [TS]

01:19:54   presumably that one will not have to [TS]

01:19:57   down clock its components and so it [TS]

01:19:59   they will therefore be faster and have [TS]

01:20:01   more Headroom and everything so and that [TS]

01:20:02   gets to your point Marco about if they [TS]

01:20:04   had to down lock things that you're [TS]

01:20:06   concerned like about all the same things [TS]

01:20:08   about the twenty twelve about [TS]

01:20:09   reliability and about noise and so it [TS]

01:20:12   could be argued that the twenty thirteen [TS]

01:20:13   MacPro the trash can the privileged [TS]

01:20:16   noise above for reliability like it was [TS]

01:20:19   very quiet all the time but maybe it [TS]

01:20:20   should have been a little bit more noisy [TS]

01:20:21   because there was lots of our reading [TS]

01:20:23   problems with the GPUs right so maybe [TS]

01:20:25   they made a different choice here that's [TS]

01:20:26   one thing that I found lacking all the [TS]

01:20:28   reviews is a rigorous testing of of the [TS]

01:20:31   noise I mean they people gave their [TS]

01:20:34   subjective you know reviews it or ever [TS]

01:20:35   but I'm looking for someone who's like a [TS]

01:20:36   fanatic loner then like I am about fan [TS]

01:20:39   noise yeah and I wonder too like the [TS]

01:20:42   reliability that that's not a small [TS]

01:20:43   point you know because nothing in here [TS]

01:20:46   is really serviceable because even Apple [TS]

01:20:49   getting to it is is challenging I'm you [TS]

01:20:52   know taking off the screen probably on [TS]

01:20:53   everything and because they're all [TS]

01:20:55   expensive custom components like this is [TS]

01:20:58   not a machine that I would want to own [TS]

01:21:01   out of warranty very long and I [TS]

01:21:04   certainly would never buy one out of [TS]

01:21:05   warranty and I would probably try to not [TS]

01:21:07   sell it out of warranty because I worry [TS]

01:21:12   that if it's operating at so close to [TS]

01:21:15   the thermal limits of this enclosure [TS]

01:21:17   because this enclosure wasn't ever [TS]

01:21:18   designed for this it's it's similar to a [TS]

01:21:21   laptop where like laptops often run like [TS]

01:21:23   pretty warm if you push them like all [TS]

01:21:25   the time and laptops tend not to last as [TS]

01:21:28   long they tend to have reliability [TS]

01:21:29   problems or components break or you have [TS]

01:21:31   like heat fatigue and your GPU falls off [TS]

01:21:33   or things like that like there's all [TS]

01:21:34   sorts of problems with laptops with just [TS]

01:21:36   things that run too hot because they're [TS]

01:21:38   they have such constrain enclosures this [TS]

01:21:41   is basically a giant workstation laptop [TS]

01:21:43   in a big screen like in in the way that [TS]

01:21:46   like it is clearly very thermally [TS]

01:21:49   constrained the old Mac Pro towers and [TS]

01:21:52   and even the trashcan Mac Pro those had [TS]

01:21:54   a lot of headroom for most [TS]

01:21:56   configurations the main problem the [TS]

01:21:58   trashcan had was if you actually stress [TS]

01:22:01   the GPUs that would cause a problem if [TS]

01:22:05   you just stressed the CPU is fine [TS]

01:22:06   because that that was it was designed [TS]

01:22:08   with the kind of asymmetric triangle of [TS]

01:22:10   heatsink in the middle there it was [TS]

01:22:12   designed to have one very [TS]

01:22:13   hot side before the CPU and two kind of [TS]

01:22:15   hot sides which were the GPUs and as [TS]

01:22:17   long as the kind of hot sides didn't get [TS]

01:22:19   super hot it was fine but unfortunately [TS]

01:22:23   that's not how people work anymore and [TS]

01:22:24   they sold it as a GPU workstation which [TS]

01:22:26   is kind of a problem so and but I think [TS]

01:22:30   it could have been done as it was as [TS]

01:22:33   quietly as it was if they just made a [TS]

01:22:35   little bit bigger the main problem with [TS]

01:22:37   the trash cam Mac Pro I think is [TS]

01:22:39   probably just they wanted to make it [TS]

01:22:40   small and they succeeded [TS]

01:22:43   it was very impressively small but [TS]

01:22:45   that's something that like nobody was [TS]

01:22:46   really asking for and instead they've [TS]

01:22:48   made it unreliable if you stress the [TS]

01:22:50   GPUs anyway with this they feel like [TS]

01:22:52   they've been the same thing with it [TS]

01:22:53   they've they've they've kept it super [TS]

01:22:55   thin and on the edges just like the [TS]

01:22:57   current one and and the back of its [TS]

01:22:59   pretty small too and they've kept the [TS]

01:23:01   same enclosure but why nobody was asking [TS]

01:23:03   for that and it has severely constrained [TS]

01:23:05   them didn't even put that many more [TS]

01:23:07   events like the vents are bigger but [TS]

01:23:09   like the back of us is not covered with [TS]

01:23:10   vents in places where the regular ones [TS]

01:23:12   aren't they hid the vents behind the leg [TS]

01:23:13   just like they always do so it looks [TS]

01:23:15   clean from the back and that isn't it [TS]

01:23:17   like not only are they keeping the case [TS]

01:23:18   the same which you know presumably has [TS]

01:23:20   big advantages in terms of cooling you [TS]

01:23:22   don't have to come up with a whole new [TS]

01:23:23   case design you don't have to come up [TS]

01:23:24   with a whole new set of machines to [TS]

01:23:26   carve out your case like it's just [TS]

01:23:27   different some different slotting and [TS]

01:23:29   the thing and you know whatever I don't [TS]

01:23:30   know if that's actually as the biggest [TS]

01:23:32   savings that as it might seem to be but [TS]

01:23:34   there's something to be said for for you [TS]

01:23:36   know keeping something's the same but [TS]

01:23:38   they could have made the entire back of [TS]

01:23:41   this thing like a giant cheese grater [TS]

01:23:42   and that would certainly allow more air [TS]

01:23:44   flow into and out of this thing and [TS]

01:23:46   would have allowed you to have bigger [TS]

01:23:47   lazier slower spinnings fans instead of [TS]

01:23:49   two relatively fast ones pushing all the [TS]

01:23:52   air out of the central thing and pulling [TS]

01:23:54   all the air in through these little [TS]

01:23:55   slits right so it's all very elegant [TS]

01:23:57   looking and everything I mean and we [TS]

01:24:00   don't you know we don't know where we [TS]

01:24:01   are we're worrying more than anything [TS]

01:24:03   else we're not saying this is there's [TS]

01:24:04   going to be thermal problems even the [TS]

01:24:06   down clocking thing is just something [TS]

01:24:08   I've read there's a rumor and I haven't [TS]

01:24:09   actually seen anyone pull out the the [TS]

01:24:11   speeds for all the components and say [TS]

01:24:13   here are the speeds for the components [TS]

01:24:14   and if you put these things in a PC you [TS]

01:24:16   would never collect them down like this [TS]

01:24:18   if you had adequate cooling like so we [TS]

01:24:19   don't know but but that gets to the [TS]

01:24:22   heart of what you're talking about for [TS]

01:24:23   like the reason you pay for all these [TS]

01:24:24   expensive components eons and [TS]

01:24:26   and all that other stuff is for the [TS]

01:24:28   reliability factor if the reliability [TS]

01:24:30   factor is undercut by the by the [TS]

01:24:32   thermals in the form factor then that [TS]

01:24:34   makes this a less compelling purchase [TS]

01:24:37   right like I don't I don't want my [TS]

01:24:39   professional workstation you know five [TS]

01:24:42   thousand and up dollar computer to be [TS]

01:24:44   operating very close to its thermal [TS]

01:24:47   limits from day one because especially [TS]

01:24:49   since I can't service anything because [TS]

01:24:51   what that tells me is I don't think this [TS]

01:24:54   is going to last as long as a tower and [TS]

01:24:56   my current iMac I think has similar [TS]

01:24:58   issues I think that I think that just [TS]

01:25:00   inherent in the iMac design that like [TS]

01:25:02   when you constrain things with thermals [TS]

01:25:04   things don't last reliably as long as [TS]

01:25:07   simple as that [TS]

01:25:07   that's been the case for all computer [TS]

01:25:09   hardware forever when you can give them [TS]

01:25:11   more thermal Headroom they last longer [TS]

01:25:13   and they run more reliably and they've [TS]

01:25:16   run more gracefully under load and it's [TS]

01:25:18   important to say what you said which is [TS]

01:25:19   like we still don't know we haven't used [TS]

01:25:21   this yet we none of us have won we [TS]

01:25:23   haven't used it and the reviews have not [TS]

01:25:24   been very clear about you know load and [TS]

01:25:27   thermals and noise and everything else [TS]

01:25:28   but that is a that is a major concern [TS]

01:25:31   for me at least that they cram all the [TS]

01:25:33   stuff into a case that was never [TS]

01:25:35   designed to handle it and even though [TS]

01:25:36   they did a lot of work on the cooling [TS]

01:25:38   system and redesigning the internals and [TS]

01:25:40   everything it was still a case that was [TS]

01:25:43   not designed for a 500 watt workstation [TS]

01:25:45   great components inside so that's my [TS]

01:25:47   main concern is like is this really [TS]

01:25:49   going to last and as I mentioned a few [TS]

01:25:50   months ago I think I'm not sure I want [TS]

01:25:53   to spend $6,000 on a great computer that [TS]

01:25:57   is gonna be really flaky in three years [TS]

01:25:59   you'll just sell it before then anyway [TS]

01:26:01   so maybe but I don't so that stops that [TS]

01:26:03   often I mean look I'm still using my [TS]

01:26:05   2014 iMac now and so I really only seen [TS]

01:26:10   the reviews of this I really want one [TS]

01:26:12   I've really really do because I really [TS]

01:26:16   want a speed upgrade I do so much [TS]

01:26:18   parallel work that would benefit from [TS]

01:26:20   those new cores so so much I really want [TS]

01:26:23   the black trackpad would probably [TS]

01:26:27   benefit from both the faster disks and [TS]

01:26:30   the well I don't know if they've had [TS]

01:26:31   this or faster and random success I [TS]

01:26:32   haven't seen that but like I like I like [TS]

01:26:34   the this subsystem I think is getting [TS]

01:26:35   short shrift here because first of all [TS]

01:26:37   the dis subsystem in the [TS]

01:26:39   I think the 2016-2017 s was much faster [TS]

01:26:42   than it was before people don't you know [TS]

01:26:44   for a large data transfers like if you [TS]

01:26:46   know for if you're doing like video or [TS]

01:26:47   something like that and again I don't [TS]

01:26:48   know how it is for random access with a [TS]

01:26:50   bunch of small files and stuff but I [TS]

01:26:51   love seeing stuff like that because [TS]

01:26:53   people don't think oh it's got an SSD [TS]

01:26:54   and they think SSD equals SSD equals SSD [TS]

01:26:57   but these get faster and part of the [TS]

01:26:59   advantages of buying expensive for a [TS]

01:27:01   hardware is it should have the fastest [TS]

01:27:03   as the the fastest interface and so the [TS]

01:27:05   numbers coming out of this is like three [TS]

01:27:07   gigs per second read and write sustained [TS]

01:27:09   through the internal storage and that's [TS]

01:27:11   great that is better than that's better [TS]

01:27:13   than KC's a little MacBook adorable [TS]

01:27:16   right a lot better and that's exactly [TS]

01:27:18   they both have s's these are they the [TS]

01:27:20   same speed they are not right that's [TS]

01:27:21   what I want out of a pro machine and [TS]

01:27:23   that's you know this machine for like [TS]

01:27:24   processing 8k video and stuff like that [TS]

01:27:27   that's a lot of data to move on and off [TS]

01:27:28   the disk into and out of RAM and so you [TS]

01:27:31   know all thumbs up on that that that's [TS]

01:27:35   one of the things attracting me to the [TS]

01:27:36   machine the reason I think that for so [TS]

01:27:38   many applications like the very fastest [TS]

01:27:40   Mac that Apple sells maybe won't make [TS]

01:27:43   everything that you do faster especially [TS]

01:27:44   if you don't take advantage of the [TS]

01:27:45   multiple cores but you know if you do [TS]

01:27:48   stuff that it uses lots of disks [TS]

01:27:50   bandwidth even if you don't care about [TS]

01:27:53   the CPU cores to the GPU this is the [TS]

01:27:55   best disk machine if you just do stuff [TS]

01:27:57   with GPUs this is far in a way you're [TS]

01:27:59   gonna be the fastest GPU even if you [TS]

01:28:00   don't care about the cores and you don't [TS]

01:28:01   care about the disk like there's a lot [TS]

01:28:03   to like even if you're not gonna use [TS]

01:28:05   every aspect of this computer and yeah [TS]

01:28:06   you have to pay for the other aspects [TS]

01:28:08   too which is the reason people get [TS]

01:28:10   cranky like I just want the good GPU I [TS]

01:28:12   don't need Zeon's I don't need all of [TS]

01:28:14   those stuff sucks well you get it all [TS]

01:28:15   right is expensive it's just the way it [TS]

01:28:17   is but having to pay for it all to get [TS]

01:28:20   like a good GPU is way better than [TS]

01:28:22   literally having no option except to buy [TS]

01:28:24   a 2010 Mac Pro and a third-party in [TS]

01:28:28   there yeah and the final thing I worry [TS]

01:28:31   about here before we before anybody has [TS]

01:28:33   one is is having this much heat going to [TS]

01:28:38   be a problem for the screen you know the [TS]

01:28:42   this this iMac was designed in 2012 when [TS]

01:28:45   the components behind it were you know [TS]

01:28:47   85 watt to 100 watt load probably now it [TS]

01:28:50   can be up to 500 watt load [TS]

01:28:52   is having that amount of heat right up [TS]

01:28:55   against the back of the LCD panel going [TS]

01:28:58   to be a problem for the longevity and [TS]

01:29:00   quality of the LCD panel like are you [TS]

01:29:02   gonna develop like a splotch in like the [TS]

01:29:06   right quadrant near the middle where the [TS]

01:29:08   processor is on the back like I don't [TS]

01:29:11   know like how do LCDs handle very high [TS]

01:29:15   heat being you know generated on a [TS]

01:29:18   component that is stuck to the back of [TS]

01:29:20   them for three years these are the kind [TS]

01:29:22   of thing I'm worried about like this is [TS]

01:29:24   like I'm so excited about this machine [TS]

01:29:25   and I'm probably gonna buy at least one [TS]

01:29:27   but I don't know like these are problems [TS]

01:29:30   that I wouldn't worry about if it was a [TS]

01:29:32   tower and I intend to buy the tower when [TS]

01:29:35   that comes out to like the only reason [TS]

01:29:37   I'm even talking about this now is [TS]

01:29:38   because TIFF wants me to buy this so [TS]

01:29:41   that way I can give it to her when I get [TS]

01:29:43   the tower so that's probably what I'm [TS]

01:29:46   going to do but it's hard not to think [TS]

01:29:49   about those concerns when I went like [TS]

01:29:52   I've been a little bit burned by IMAX in [TS]

01:29:55   the past and I've had such great [TS]

01:29:57   experiences with towers you know I'm [TS]

01:29:59   surprised that you're you're harping on [TS]

01:30:01   the thermal stuff so much because it [TS]

01:30:04   seems to me like Apple has got to know [TS]

01:30:07   what the thermal requirements for this [TS]

01:30:09   thing are and with the with the the [TS]

01:30:12   trashcan yes they design themselves into [TS]

01:30:15   a corner in that they didn't have a lot [TS]

01:30:16   of headroom which is what you said [TS]

01:30:17   before but it's not like it was broken [TS]

01:30:20   the moment to chipped and so well I [TS]

01:30:23   don't think this is gonna be any [TS]

01:30:24   different [TS]

01:30:25   I really don't and having seen it very [TS]

01:30:27   briefly I saw it you know when we were [TS]

01:30:31   at WABC [TS]

01:30:32   as did John and my record recollection [TS]

01:30:34   of that that brief window of time I [TS]

01:30:36   spent with it was that I could hear the [TS]

01:30:38   fans even despite the fact that it was [TS]

01:30:40   in a very loud demo room and they said [TS]

01:30:42   that the fans were screaming [TS]

01:30:44   deliberately because it was a very early [TS]

01:30:46   pre-release model and they just you know [TS]

01:30:48   wanted to crank the fans up to you know [TS]

01:30:50   11 to make sure that whatever they were [TS]

01:30:52   demoing on-screen which I don't even [TS]

01:30:53   remember anymore you know didn't cause [TS]

01:30:55   any problems and those fans I'm sorry to [TS]

01:30:58   report gentlemen my recollection were [TS]

01:31:00   they were loud now that doesn't mean [TS]

01:31:01   they were gonna be loud always that [TS]

01:31:03   doesn't mean they're gonna be loud every [TS]

01:31:04   time you hit you know coming [TS]

01:31:05   Dhar and xcode but it certainly seemed [TS]

01:31:09   like it was capable of moving a whole [TS]

01:31:11   lot of air and you you very what could [TS]

01:31:14   be right I mean obviously all three of [TS]

01:31:15   us are just pontificating at the moment [TS]

01:31:17   but I would be really surprised if we [TS]

01:31:19   see widespread thermal issues with this [TS]

01:31:21   thing I mean it has been extensively [TS]

01:31:23   redesigned on the inside specifically to [TS]

01:31:25   avoid that very problem but so but like [TS]

01:31:27   so is the trash can like and that's [TS]

01:31:29   exactly what it had was maybe not from [TS]

01:31:30   day one but a GPU failures due to heat [TS]

01:31:33   right and so like that was that is that [TS]

01:31:36   was the the major and I think the only [TS]

01:31:39   sort of systemic hardware problem with [TS]

01:31:42   the trashcans and marco is sitting there [TS]

01:31:43   right now in front of a computer that he [TS]

01:31:45   says runs the GPU too hot and his isn't [TS]

01:31:48   even a pro so there's some reason to [TS]

01:31:50   believe that Apple doesn't have the [TS]

01:31:54   cooling stuff licked for stuff stuck to [TS]

01:31:56   the back of a monitor even if it is not [TS]

01:31:57   really hot stuff like this so I think it [TS]

01:31:59   is reasonable to be concerned given the [TS]

01:32:02   recent history about this and you know [TS]

01:32:04   just worried like we don't know we'll [TS]

01:32:06   find out right but there's the problem [TS]

01:32:08   with this is the only real way to find [TS]

01:32:10   that out is to be like me and be like [TS]

01:32:12   I'm not gonna buy one of these for the [TS]

01:32:13   first two years just to find out what [TS]

01:32:15   the deal is but you can't you know you [TS]

01:32:16   can't do that if you want one a day one [TS]

01:32:18   you kind of have to pull the trigger and [TS]

01:32:20   say whether like are you gonna buy it or [TS]

01:32:23   you're not gonna buy it and that's where [TS]

01:32:24   the worry comes in you won't have time [TS]

01:32:26   if you're gonna buy it [TS]

01:32:27   when it comes out within the first month [TS]

01:32:29   or two you you won't have time to see in [TS]

01:32:31   six months does everyone fire all their [TS]

01:32:32   GPUs or not so you just kind of gotta [TS]

01:32:34   cross your fingers or you know be [TS]

01:32:37   prepared to sell it to somebody else or [TS]

01:32:39   you know do what Marc was gonna do which [TS]

01:32:41   may end up working out which is Marco [TS]

01:32:43   gets the computer he stresses all the [TS]

01:32:45   CPU cores encoding mp3s and compiling [TS]

01:32:48   stuff and then he passes off to TIFF and [TS]

01:32:50   she stresses GPU believes the CPU alone [TS]

01:32:53   because she's just playing games on it [TS]

01:32:54   mm-hmm [TS]

01:32:54   and doing Photoshop stuff because also [TS]

01:32:56   all GPU stuff yeah so you'll you'll [TS]

01:32:59   spread the heat so you get a splotch on [TS]

01:33:01   one side of the screen and then a spot [TS]

01:33:05   yeah III really hope that it's good [TS]

01:33:08   because all the reviews are very very [TS]

01:33:11   positive and these are still as you know [TS]

01:33:13   these are very early reviews but they're [TS]

01:33:15   very promising and in quite how [TS]

01:33:17   universally positive they [TS]

01:33:19   and man skylake Zeon's are awesome [TS]

01:33:24   according to these reviews like this is [TS]

01:33:26   this is a big deal on the processor [TS]

01:33:29   front because the ten core version that [TS]

01:33:32   they've seated the reviewers seems to [TS]

01:33:35   have 10 cores without a significant [TS]

01:33:37   single core performance penalty like in [TS]

01:33:40   in the previous generation little [TS]

01:33:41   penalties all orden it's like it's [TS]

01:33:44   slightly slower single core than the [TS]

01:33:46   newest iMac at the top top spec but [TS]

01:33:49   barely [TS]

01:33:50   and it's obviously way faster and [TS]

01:33:53   multi-threaded and so like the real [TS]

01:33:54   promises put is supposedly that the 18 [TS]

01:33:56   also doesn't take a small because it [TS]

01:33:58   used to be like yeah you take a little [TS]

01:34:00   hit but them and you go up to whatever [TS]

01:34:01   the maximum core con is you take a [TS]

01:34:02   pretty significant hit in a single core [TS]

01:34:04   and so the theory of these is that the [TS]

01:34:06   10 core takes a little hit the 18 core [TS]

01:34:08   will be similar performance to the 10 [TS]

01:34:10   core and single thread so it's like [TS]

01:34:12   you're not you don't have to make this [TS]

01:34:13   horrible choice between well if I want [TS]

01:34:16   awesome performance in my parallel tasks [TS]

01:34:17   I have to give up the single you just [TS]

01:34:19   give up a tiny bit and it doesn't get [TS]

01:34:21   worse as you go up in core we'll see if [TS]

01:34:22   that's true but that's that's the that's [TS]

01:34:23   the pitch the main concerns for most [TS]

01:34:26   people here when they see this our price [TS]

01:34:29   and lack of upgrade ability and those [TS]

01:34:31   are very valid concerns but it's a very [TS]

01:34:33   very good value for what you get for [TS]

01:34:36   workstation parts like a lot of people [TS]

01:34:38   look at the pro line as john said [TS]

01:34:39   earlier because they want like a really [TS]

01:34:42   good GPU for gaming se but that's never [TS]

01:34:45   been with the Mac Pro has been very good [TS]

01:34:46   at you could you could do that with it [TS]

01:34:48   but it was a pretty inefficient way to [TS]

01:34:49   do that [TS]

01:34:50   you know price-wise and some and [TS]

01:34:52   sometimes even performance wise you know [TS]

01:34:54   you can get like GPUs that are pretty [TS]

01:34:56   decent for gaming but that's not why [TS]

01:34:59   they're selling them here and they don't [TS]

01:35:01   expect people to buy it for that reason [TS]

01:35:02   and when you compare it to the price of [TS]

01:35:05   just building a gaming PC which John [TS]

01:35:07   should have done years ago it's you know [TS]

01:35:09   not even close and PC people and and Mac [TS]

01:35:13   people who just want to play games look [TS]

01:35:15   at this and say look I can build a [TS]

01:35:16   gaming PC for way less money and that's [TS]

01:35:17   true but you wouldn't put a Xeon in it [TS]

01:35:19   and you wouldn't have like a wonderful [TS]

01:35:21   apple 5k display in front of it and and [TS]

01:35:23   you wouldn't have ECC Ram and [TS]

01:35:26   workstation class other stuff and yeah [TS]

01:35:28   I'd like the workstation class SSD like [TS]

01:35:29   you wouldn't have all that stuff so when [TS]

01:35:33   you [TS]

01:35:33   actually go to like Dell or HP or [TS]

01:35:35   somebody and spec out workstation grade [TS]

01:35:38   components in a workstation that match [TS]

01:35:40   the components in this that are actually [TS]

01:35:41   like a Zeon with the same core count on [TS]

01:35:44   a workstation GPU and workstation great [TS]

01:35:46   SSD that's super fast if you can even [TS]

01:35:48   get them to give you one it's actually [TS]

01:35:49   pretty competitively priced for from [TS]

01:35:52   what we know so far again we don't know [TS]

01:35:53   the pricing at the upgrades yet but like [TS]

01:35:54   the base price and what you get in the [TS]

01:35:55   base model that's actually pretty [TS]

01:35:57   reasonably priced it seems if you are [TS]

01:36:00   looking at and if you spec up an iMac as [TS]

01:36:01   I said like if you spec up a regular [TS]

01:36:03   iMac into this territory of performance [TS]

01:36:05   and capacity and everything you're [TS]

01:36:07   already getting into about 4000 so to [TS]

01:36:09   get like you know double the cores four [TS]

01:36:11   five thousand is not unreasonable I [TS]

01:36:14   don't think in addition to all the other [TS]

01:36:15   upgrades so value I think from what we [TS]

01:36:19   know so far it's probably fine lack of [TS]

01:36:22   upgrade ability is a big thing but I [TS]

01:36:24   think this is just the era in which we [TS]

01:36:26   live now I think the reality our laptops [TS]

01:36:29   again have been upgradable for four [TS]

01:36:30   years for five years for most people if [TS]

01:36:32   they haven't been upgradable [TS]

01:36:33   meaningfully if at all and this is just [TS]

01:36:36   the world we live in now and you know [TS]

01:36:37   the reality is upgrades have been [TS]

01:36:39   getting fewer and fewer they've been [TS]

01:36:42   getting increasingly problematic like [TS]

01:36:45   Casey has with his RAM because as things [TS]

01:36:49   get super advanced they also tend to get [TS]

01:36:51   more picky and more specialized and it's [TS]

01:36:52   harder to find and make their party [TS]

01:36:54   stuff that actually works look how long [TS]

01:36:56   it takes people to make third-party [TS]

01:36:57   things for like the the custom Apple SSD [TS]

01:36:59   modules and a lot of laptops and and [TS]

01:37:01   many of the recent desktops you know so [TS]

01:37:04   like it's just things are even more [TS]

01:37:06   advanced more specialized more [TS]

01:37:07   integrated so I think the era of upgrade [TS]

01:37:10   ability is really pretty much over for [TS]

01:37:13   most computer things and I say this not [TS]

01:37:16   happily because I always did that I [TS]

01:37:19   participated very heavily in that I [TS]

01:37:20   would always like you know buy my [TS]

01:37:23   laptops with like base configuration and [TS]

01:37:25   then spec them up with third-party parts [TS]

01:37:26   to save money and to get you know bigger [TS]

01:37:28   capacities and stuff and upgrade down [TS]

01:37:30   the road with an SSD to make it faster [TS]

01:37:32   and everything and that was a great time [TS]

01:37:34   for a long time but I think the time is [TS]

01:37:36   over you know the technology has moved [TS]

01:37:38   on the market has moved on I think very [TS]

01:37:41   few people really even would do that [TS]

01:37:44   anymore even if they could and [TS]

01:37:47   additionally now you can't so so it kind [TS]

01:37:50   of closes the door on that and I think [TS]

01:37:52   rather than hoping to go back to the [TS]

01:37:54   time where you could buy John's Mac Pro [TS]

01:37:56   in 2008 and keep it running all this [TS]

01:37:58   time with just occasional upgrades of [TS]

01:38:00   relatively inexpensive parts we're not [TS]

01:38:03   going back to that time like we can't [TS]

01:38:05   let the parts now or to specialize too [TS]

01:38:07   good even John's computer you could [TS]

01:38:09   never upgrade the processors you could [TS]

01:38:11   ever upgrade the motherboard make it you [TS]

01:38:12   know faster bus or anything like you [TS]

01:38:14   just can't do that well you can but only [TS]

01:38:18   within a range of like the three that [TS]

01:38:20   were available at that time but you [TS]

01:38:22   can't put in a new Xeon into your [TS]

01:38:25   motherboard until it changes the socket [TS]

01:38:27   like every two years yeah there was [TS]

01:38:29   there was a long stretch of though where [TS]

01:38:30   they kept the socket the same way it's [TS]

01:38:31   not my model year I think well maybe [TS]

01:38:33   actually was the 2009 someone recently [TS]

01:38:35   posted a YouTube video I think they were [TS]

01:38:37   doing in 2009 and they just upgraded the [TS]

01:38:39   heck out of it to basically the fastest [TS]

01:38:40   CPUs that still fit in the socket and [TS]

01:38:42   all the other stuff fast and you know it [TS]

01:38:44   wasn't super impressive but it was [TS]

01:38:45   pretty neat it was mostly interesting [TS]

01:38:46   just to watch exactly what it takes to [TS]

01:38:48   do that if I can find the link I'll I'll [TS]

01:38:50   throw it in the notes but but yeah [TS]

01:38:51   you're right like eventually they change [TS]

01:38:52   the stock and then you're you're out of [TS]

01:38:53   that business or even just like you know [TS]

01:38:55   the new ones require a certain type of [TS]

01:38:57   bus speed or RAM type or Northbridge [TS]

01:38:59   that yours doesn't have like stuff like [TS]

01:39:00   that like there's always like the [TS]

01:39:02   requirements change even if the socket [TS]

01:39:04   doesn't change usually you can't [TS]

01:39:06   meaningfully upgrade your processor [TS]

01:39:07   after after after so efforts being sold [TS]

01:39:10   you know and so like the error of [TS]

01:39:12   upgradability has been fading for a long [TS]

01:39:14   time and I think it's very well over now [TS]

01:39:18   it's very very clearly over and so [TS]

01:39:20   rather than hoping to go back to a time [TS]

01:39:23   that we're never going to go back to a [TS]

01:39:25   more productive approach now would just [TS]

01:39:27   be like figure out how to operate in [TS]

01:39:29   this new environment so and and base [TS]

01:39:31   your purchases accordingly so you know [TS]

01:39:34   if you're concerned about running the [TS]

01:39:36   same computer for 10 years well you're [TS]

01:39:38   gonna take a big risk on that you know [TS]

01:39:39   they it might break after year five and [TS]

01:39:41   require repair that is gonna be more [TS]

01:39:43   than it's worth or it won't even be [TS]

01:39:44   available anymore so like my approach to [TS]

01:39:48   this is I have just gotten accustomed to [TS]

01:39:51   selling computers after three years of [TS]

01:39:54   using the more sometimes less [TS]

01:39:56   you know I buy Apple care from concerned [TS]

01:39:59   about service costs [TS]

01:40:00   I don't buy it on phones as I mentioned [TS]

01:40:02   because that's not use not for me but [TS]

01:40:04   you know for max I sometimes do buy [TS]

01:40:07   depending on pricing and concerns at the [TS]

01:40:09   time once the Mac is out of Apple care [TS]

01:40:12   coverage I don't want it anymore so I [TS]

01:40:14   try to sell it before that it is [TS]

01:40:17   currently I'm using my iMac does that [TS]

01:40:19   just left its warranty and this is very [TS]

01:40:21   unusual for me I don't usually do this [TS]

01:40:23   but the new world where nothing is [TS]

01:40:26   upgradeable might require you to either [TS]

01:40:29   buy less perfect and less expensive gear [TS]

01:40:34   more frequently than you used to and or [TS]

01:40:37   get used to selling it which is not [TS]

01:40:41   great it's not fun and it's not [TS]

01:40:42   particularly profitable that's but but [TS]

01:40:45   like you know you don't have to run [TS]

01:40:47   everything into the ground necessarily [TS]

01:40:48   if you want super high-end stuff the old [TS]

01:40:51   way was buy something high and upgraded [TS]

01:40:53   every 18 months [TS]

01:40:54   you know until something better came out [TS]

01:40:56   that you could upgrade the whole thing [TS]

01:40:57   to the new way is you can't do that [TS]

01:41:00   anymore [TS]

01:41:00   you can just buy something new every [TS]

01:41:02   three years or two years or four years [TS]

01:41:04   and sell via button while it's still [TS]

01:41:07   worth something it's this isn't a great [TS]

01:41:10   solution for everybody but we don't have [TS]

01:41:13   any choice like the world of [TS]

01:41:14   upgradability is gone for for Macs and [TS]

01:41:17   even many pcs so that world isn't is [TS]

01:41:20   beyond us now so it's it's worth rather [TS]

01:41:23   than dwelling on this too much and [TS]

01:41:25   trying to fight this fight forever it's [TS]

01:41:28   worth just figuring out like how can you [TS]

01:41:30   operate in the new world it's coming [TS]

01:41:32   back for the Mac Pro though even if it's [TS]

01:41:34   just GPU upgrade ability I'm holding [TS]

01:41:36   that hope you know we we again we still [TS]

01:41:38   don't know anything about the Mac Pro [TS]

01:41:39   because the GPU I mean it's not just [TS]

01:41:43   important for me like the GPU is the I [TS]

01:41:45   think the most critical just because [TS]

01:41:47   GPUs get so much better year of year [TS]

01:41:49   because the because of the inherent [TS]

01:41:50   parallelism of the task that all they [TS]

01:41:52   can basically you know as soon as a [TS]

01:41:53   shrink they can fit more execution units [TS]

01:41:56   and because the problem is so parallel [TS]

01:41:57   like you actually get a win for that so [TS]

01:42:00   they are still on that crazy path word [TS]

01:42:01   you know year after year they just get [TS]

01:42:03   they get faster roughly in pace with the [TS]

01:42:06   density with transistor density there's [TS]

01:42:08   a little bit of a [TS]

01:42:09   problem with RAM and bandwidth and stuff [TS]

01:42:11   like that but in general they like their [TS]

01:42:14   speed increases year over year are so [TS]

01:42:15   big that if you are not on that train if [TS]

01:42:17   you can't participate in that train and [TS]

01:42:19   you're doing something that is GPU [TS]

01:42:20   intensive even if it's not gaming [TS]

01:42:22   whatever maybe something GPU intensive [TS]

01:42:23   involving video or whatever it's like [TS]

01:42:26   you have to throw out the whole machine [TS]

01:42:27   because eventually you know two years [TS]

01:42:29   later the GPUs are four times as fast [TS]

01:42:31   and you're just left in the dust so you [TS]

01:42:32   have to be able to upgrade the GPU so [TS]

01:42:34   please Apple make a machine where you [TS]

01:42:37   can upgrade the GPU just one just one [TS]

01:42:39   make it really expensive but yeah you [TS]

01:42:41   gotta do it please I mean I'll just [TS]

01:42:43   point out that when Apple had the Mac [TS]

01:42:45   Pro roundtable and they announced that a [TS]

01:42:47   new Mac Pro will exist some time not in [TS]

01:42:49   2017 they never said upgradable they [TS]

01:42:53   said modular I know that's a very [TS]

01:42:55   different thing I'm just hoping I'm just [TS]

01:42:57   holding out hope I'm not it's not [TS]

01:42:58   founded on anything other than like then [TS]

01:43:01   just process of elimination of like how [TS]

01:43:04   could you differentiate from the iMac [TS]

01:43:05   Pro yeah the screen will be separate so [TS]

01:43:08   that's that's the modular part right it [TS]

01:43:11   could be upgradable it could be it could [TS]

01:43:14   some part of it I'm just I'm trying I'm [TS]

01:43:16   trying to my hopes up because this is [TS]

01:43:18   still Apple and modern Apple at that and [TS]

01:43:21   so like the chances of it being that [TS]

01:43:25   upgradable if at all I I would not [TS]

01:43:29   consider that a sure thing like if [TS]

01:43:31   you're looking at the iMac Pro and [TS]

01:43:32   you're thinking oh I want to hold out [TS]

01:43:34   for the Mac Pro because it'll be [TS]

01:43:34   upgradable I would not consider that a [TS]

01:43:37   safe assumption it might be upgradable [TS]

01:43:39   but modular simply means like you will [TS]

01:43:42   probably be able to configure it with [TS]

01:43:44   lots of different configurations up [TS]

01:43:45   front like the iMac Pro comes with one [TS]

01:43:48   CPU and one GPU and they're both you [TS]

01:43:52   know within a certain range of options [TS]

01:43:53   here maybe the Mac Pro will come will [TS]

01:43:56   let you pick two CPUs or two GPUs or one [TS]

01:43:59   CPU and three GPUs I don't know like [TS]

01:44:02   that that's modular it doesn't mean any [TS]

01:44:05   of this stuff is upgradable necessarily [TS]

01:44:07   it might be upgradable but we have no [TS]

01:44:09   indication that it will be and sure it's [TS]

01:44:12   I would certainly not bet on it but [TS]

01:44:14   anyway the other point is that with the [TS]

01:44:17   Mac Pro we don't actually know when it's [TS]

01:44:19   coming all Apple said was not in 2017 [TS]

01:44:23   it might be 2018 it could arrive the [TS]

01:44:25   first day of 2018 so soon 2017 ends any [TS]

01:44:29   day could be MacPro day yeah New Year's [TS]

01:44:31   Day in the next decade any day could be [TS]

01:44:34   Mac from yeah or it could come out in [TS]

01:44:36   2025 yep or it could come out never they [TS]

01:44:40   could just change your mind say you know [TS]

01:44:41   what actually we we're not gonna do it [TS]

01:44:43   anymore like it's it's not even a sure [TS]

01:44:44   thing that's going to exist what it [TS]

01:44:46   means is that every day every day you [TS]

01:44:47   wake up in 2018 and later could be Mac [TS]

01:44:50   Pro day this is like KC's doom like [TS]

01:44:54   daily worrying every week the mag Pearl [TS]

01:44:58   will be announced and released speaking [TS]

01:45:00   we know it's like we're we're all [TS]

01:45:01   waiting for WABC and if they miss next [TS]

01:45:03   year then we're waiting for next year's [TS]

01:45:04   WWC you know like so we do have some [TS]

01:45:06   thing to hang our hat on yeah but like [TS]

01:45:09   the the Mac Pro could come New Year's [TS]

01:45:11   Day or it could come in June or it could [TS]

01:45:14   come in December or could come in 2018 [TS]

01:45:17   like so for anybody deciding whether to [TS]

01:45:20   buy an iMac Pro if you're at all on the [TS]

01:45:23   fence about whether you might want to [TS]

01:45:25   Mac Pro instead yeah just just buy it [TS]

01:45:28   and sell like Marco well yeah because [TS]

01:45:30   it's like you don't really know when [TS]

01:45:32   that's coming or even again you don't [TS]

01:45:34   even really know if the Mac Pro is [TS]

01:45:36   coming like yes apples had they're [TS]

01:45:38   working on it but things could change [TS]

01:45:40   over time you never know like it's not [TS]

01:45:42   it until it's actually out you can't [TS]

01:45:44   guarantee that it will be available like [TS]

01:45:46   you can't guarantee this thing will [TS]

01:45:47   exist and because we don't know anything [TS]

01:45:50   about it or even when or if it's coming [TS]

01:45:52   out then I think if you are really [TS]

01:45:55   tempted by the iMac Pro and you're not [TS]

01:45:58   patient and you're you know and you you [TS]

01:45:59   need to buy something soon and you [TS]

01:46:02   really can't wait until June just to see [TS]

01:46:04   if it'll comes out by then then you know [TS]

01:46:07   this isn't a bad option at this I have a [TS]

01:46:10   feeling my prediction here what's going [TS]

01:46:12   to happen here [TS]

01:46:13   the iMac Pro is probably going to be so [TS]

01:46:16   good and it's probably going to satisfy [TS]

01:46:18   so many Pro needs that when the Mac Pro [TS]

01:46:21   does finally come out it's going to sell [TS]

01:46:24   really badly and then Apple will use [TS]

01:46:28   that as justification to really finally [TS]

01:46:31   kill it I I expect the next [TS]

01:46:35   MacPro to be a single release product [TS]

01:46:38   line I don't expect it to ever get [TS]

01:46:39   another update after its initial release [TS]

01:46:41   because I don't think it's going to sell [TS]

01:46:44   well and I say that not happily because [TS]

01:46:46   I want that computer but the iMac Pro I [TS]

01:46:49   think is going to solve so many Pro [TS]

01:46:52   needs for so many people possibly even [TS]

01:46:55   me it's going to be good enough it's [TS]

01:46:58   also like and the timing of this is also [TS]

01:47:00   going to exacerbate this where people [TS]

01:47:03   who have been dying for a high-end Mac [TS]

01:47:05   Pro update for the last three years [TS]

01:47:08   they're gonna be like a lot a lot of [TS]

01:47:11   that demand is gonna go to the iMac Pro [TS]

01:47:12   simply because it's out first and so [TS]

01:47:16   then when the Mac Pro comes out with [TS]

01:47:17   probably the same generation components [TS]

01:47:20   at least the same generation processor [TS]

01:47:21   maybe GPUs will have a small update by [TS]

01:47:23   then but like when the Mac Pro comes out [TS]

01:47:25   say in six months with the same [TS]

01:47:26   generation stuff at a higher price point [TS]

01:47:28   after so many people have had six months [TS]

01:47:32   to just buy the iMac instead I really [TS]

01:47:35   don't think it's gonna sell very well [TS]

01:47:36   well the 8k screen will be a big draw [TS]

01:47:39   that Y had to see honestly like I do [TS]

01:47:42   wonder like if they're gonna do an 8k [TS]

01:47:43   screen because they all they said was [TS]

01:47:45   they were doing a pro display they [TS]

01:47:46   didn't say what size or anything about a [TS]

01:47:48   more optimistic about upgradable GPUs [TS]

01:47:50   then how about the aka screen but we'll [TS]

01:47:52   see yeah so but like we don't so all [TS]

01:47:54   this is to say like if you're true if [TS]

01:47:57   you think I'm up buying this but you are [TS]

01:47:59   making an assumption about the next Mac [TS]

01:48:01   Pro really questioned that assumption [TS]

01:48:04   like are you really like first of all [TS]

01:48:07   can you just wait and see if you can [TS]

01:48:08   wait and see wait and see but you don't [TS]

01:48:11   know how long the way that way it's [TS]

01:48:12   going to be and and then secondly like [TS]

01:48:15   is what you're waiting for actually [TS]

01:48:17   going to happen do we actually know that [TS]

01:48:19   is it likely to happen have they said [TS]

01:48:21   anything about it like and chances are [TS]

01:48:23   the answer to all those things as we [TS]

01:48:25   don't know or no ultimately I have a [TS]

01:48:27   feeling this is the new Mac Pro in [TS]

01:48:30   practice like the weather they release [TS]

01:48:32   to me next summer that nobody buys or [TS]

01:48:33   not it's a different story but I think [TS]

01:48:35   we're going to look back on this point [TS]

01:48:37   in Apple history when we're all even [TS]

01:48:39   older man in in a few years on this [TS]

01:48:42   podcast hopefully talking about I [TS]

01:48:44   remember when the only when I might Pro [TS]

01:48:45   came out and when the Mac Pro became an [TS]

01:48:47   iMac basically like [TS]

01:48:48   I think this is the new line of Mac Pros [TS]

01:48:52   for the long term I don't think that's [TS]

01:48:55   necessarily a bad thing it might not be [TS]

01:48:57   we have a lot more to discuss about this [TS]

01:48:59   but we have gone long and we have an [TS]

01:49:02   interesting holiday schedule coming up [TS]

01:49:03   very very soon so I think we should [TS]

01:49:05   probably just stop here and we will talk [TS]

01:49:08   next week about the press tour with this [TS]

01:49:10   and we'll talk next week about the new [TS]

01:49:13   interesting hardware and encryption sort [TS]

01:49:16   of things [TS]

01:49:17   what is it the t2 chip is that right [TS]

01:49:19   it's all sorts of cool stuff in there [TS]

01:49:20   yeah so we have we have plenty more to [TS]

01:49:23   say and as much as I joke I'm actually [TS]

01:49:25   pretty interested to talk about some of [TS]

01:49:27   this stuff so we will save that for next [TS]

01:49:29   week thank you to our sponsors this week [TS]

01:49:31   betterment hover and fracture and we [TS]

01:49:33   will see you next week even as it was [TS]

01:49:43   accidental accidental [TS]

01:49:50   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:49:52   him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

01:49:57   accidental but you can find the show [TS]

01:50:00   notes at ADP CAS pyl ISS so that's Casey [TS]

01:50:14   less and a are Co a RM ante Marco Arment [TS]

01:50:20   SI r AC Syracuse [TS]

01:50:38   so Casey do you want us to talk even [TS]

01:50:40   more about the Mac Pro about the Mac Pro [TS]

01:50:43   know about the iMac Pro and whatever [TS]

01:50:45   that's fine if you look at like you know [TS]

01:50:47   what this iMac Pro is versus what the [TS]

01:50:50   2013 Mac Pro was and technically still [TS]

01:50:54   is this is a Mac Pro it just happens to [TS]

01:50:57   have a screen glued to the front of it [TS]

01:50:58   but like it's really no less upgradable [TS]

01:51:02   than the 2013 Mac Pro was it's way [TS]

01:51:04   faster in every way it has more options [TS]

01:51:07   bigger you know it's and it supports [TS]

01:51:10   desktop retina correctly I think rent [TS]

01:51:12   Redmond SSD upgrade I think it's not [TS]

01:51:14   really more an S is the upgrade that's a [TS]

01:51:16   lot like it was so easy to take it was [TS]

01:51:19   so easy to take the top off that of the [TS]

01:51:20   trashcan it comes right off just a [TS]

01:51:21   little loop comes right off and right [TS]

01:51:23   there in front of you totally reachable [TS]

01:51:25   is the the SSD and the the RAM that's [TS]

01:51:28   was the SSD actually see so many sure [TS]

01:51:30   it's just it was just on the outside one [TS]

01:51:32   of the boards you just yank it out of [TS]

01:51:34   the slot oh yeah they do saw one yeah [TS]

01:51:37   Mac Pro 2013 at this point I would do [TS]

01:51:39   that for my for my wife's iMac I wish I [TS]

01:51:44   could upgrade the SSD right now because [TS]

01:51:45   I would pay for a two terabyte one it's [TS]

01:51:48   $1,200 by third parties no this is third [TS]

01:51:55   party this is from ODBC that's that's [TS]

01:51:57   for the Mac Pro though I'm assuming it's [TS]

01:51:59   not the same thing in the in the iMac no [TS]

01:52:01   you're right in the iMac its are very [TS]

01:52:02   different but like anyway you know for [TS]

01:52:04   all intents and purposes like if Apple [TS]

01:52:06   came out and said this is the Mac Pro [TS]

01:52:09   now like if they'd if they didn't pre [TS]

01:52:11   announced the existence of a new modular [TS]

01:52:13   one next year or not this year we would [TS]

01:52:15   grumble for a few weeks about how it [TS]

01:52:18   wasn't have gradable I would grumble [TS]

01:52:19   forever yeah I was gonna say a few weeks [TS]

01:52:22   you know forever no matter what they [TS]

01:52:24   really know the reason the reason I [TS]

01:52:26   would grumble forever hasn't have [TS]

01:52:27   anything to do with almost anything we [TS]

01:52:29   discussed except for one part the fact [TS]

01:52:30   that things might be down o'clock [TS]

01:52:32   because the whole point of the top line [TS]

01:52:34   of the computer is to be the fastest as [TS]

01:52:35   it can be and so don't take the world's [TS]

01:52:36   fastest parts and then down clock them [TS]

01:52:38   right that's that's the biggest thing [TS]

01:52:40   you need to have a world's fastest Mac [TS]

01:52:43   that is not intentionally hobbled by [TS]

01:52:45   some stupidity now if they change the [TS]

01:52:47   iMac [TS]

01:52:47   to not do that and to run all the parts [TS]

01:52:50   at their maximum speed to get the [TS]

01:52:51   highest Bend parts from all the [TS]

01:52:53   manufacturers right and run them at [TS]

01:52:55   their high bin speed then yeah I would [TS]

01:52:58   be less crumbly but if this specific one [TS]

01:53:00   with its room or down clock parts that [TS]

01:53:02   cannot be your top-of-the-line computer [TS]

01:53:04   because it's so it's it's like it's like [TS]

01:53:06   you know this is this is our [TS]

01:53:08   top-of-the-line car it's you know it's [TS]

01:53:09   the the the Acura NSX right but we've [TS]

01:53:13   detuned the engine by putting a [TS]

01:53:15   restrictive exhaust on it so we've cut [TS]

01:53:17   off one hundred horsepower that's just [TS]

01:53:18   sitting there like what are you what are [TS]

01:53:20   you even doing but you could make that [TS]

01:53:22   argument for everything though you can [TS]

01:53:24   make that argument for any car everyone [TS]

01:53:26   every freaking car is an aftermarket [TS]

01:53:27   exhaust okay a car car's a bad example [TS]

01:53:30   but but for silicon parts like they're [TS]

01:53:32   been to a certain clock speed and the [TS]

01:53:34   more expensive ones are the ones that [TS]

01:53:35   can go faster right and to not run them [TS]

01:53:39   at at their top speed or to by slower [TS]

01:53:42   speed chips because you can't cool them [TS]

01:53:44   you've made a bad top-end computer then [TS]

01:53:46   like you're leaving money on the table [TS]

01:53:48   like you're charging enough money that [TS]

01:53:50   you could put in the top bin part but [TS]

01:53:52   instead you buy the slower you're worse [TS]

01:53:54   you buy the top bin one but don't run it [TS]

01:53:57   at its maximum clock speed that is just [TS]

01:53:59   in embarrassment you can't do that you [TS]

01:54:00   gotta have a fastest computer with all [TS]

01:54:03   the fastest stuff that's the whole point [TS]

01:54:04   of the top of your line is to be the top [TS]

01:54:06   of your line I I think you're getting a [TS]

01:54:09   little overly worked up if if some if [TS]

01:54:12   some GPU is running at 90% of its [TS]

01:54:15   maximum capacity who cares where you [TS]

01:54:18   leave that 10% therefore who cares it's [TS]

01:54:21   still infinitely better people who [TS]

01:54:24   people who want the very fastest [TS]

01:54:25   computer and are willing to pay for it [TS]

01:54:26   that's who cares that is but by [TS]

01:54:28   definition John that is the fastest [TS]

01:54:30   computer this is all ball because it's [TS]

01:54:32   hypothetical but like in this [TS]

01:54:34   hypothetical world that is the fastest [TS]

01:54:36   computer that Apple sells there is no [TS]

01:54:38   other discussion to be had yeah I know [TS]

01:54:40   but like but it's not it's you know what [TS]

01:54:43   I mean like it's like saying whatever [TS]

01:54:45   Mac Apple if the fastest computer sold [TS]

01:54:47   was the adorable it's like but that is [TS]

01:54:48   the fast you would know that it is [TS]

01:54:49   possible to make a faster one by doing [TS]

01:54:52   obvious things right [TS]

01:54:53   do you enjoy your PC then like what do [TS]

01:54:56   you know I'm showing this like because [TS]

01:54:58   the role of it is to be the top [TS]

01:55:01   you read my case for the true MacPro [TS]

01:55:02   successor like this is the whole the [TS]

01:55:04   whole point of the your top-of-the-line [TS]

01:55:05   computer right I mean I guess yeah I I'm [TS]

01:55:08   not arguing that there should be a top [TS]

01:55:10   of line computer I'm not arguing that it [TS]

01:55:11   should be really damn fast but if you're [TS]

01:55:13   but if you're worried about a processor [TS]

01:55:15   being 4 gigahertz instead of 4.1 like [TS]

01:55:17   who cares it's still people who buy this [TS]

01:55:21   computer care that's ok it's like it's [TS]

01:55:23   because I'm not saying like oh you have [TS]

01:55:24   to do something magical to make it [TS]

01:55:25   faster than everybody else but like [TS]

01:55:27   don't take a part that runs at 4.1 and [TS]

01:55:30   run it for why like what why oh we had [TS]

01:55:33   to do that to fit into thermal envelope [TS]

01:55:34   and it gets back to a Margo they're [TS]

01:55:35   talking about who's asking you to fit it [TS]

01:55:37   in the skinny case versus who is asking [TS]

01:55:40   you to get the fastest everywhere [TS]

01:55:41   goodbye people buy a whole new computers [TS]

01:55:43   for a 10% speed bump to things that they [TS]

01:55:44   do right they say my computer is too [TS]

01:55:47   slow if I get 10 to 20 percent [TS]

01:55:49   improvement on this it makes a [TS]

01:55:50   difference in my workday in my you know [TS]

01:55:52   compile cycle in my render time em or [TS]

01:55:54   whatever right they'll buy a whole new [TS]

01:55:56   computer for a double-digit percentage [TS]

01:55:58   speed increase and you're saying I'm [TS]

01:55:59   willing to leave double-digit speed [TS]

01:56:01   ingress on the table so I can fit it [TS]

01:56:03   into a skinny case it's not asking for [TS]

01:56:04   that so that's why I'm saying I would [TS]

01:56:05   grumble forever about this because it is [TS]

01:56:07   a wrongheaded thing to say we're going [TS]

01:56:09   to make the fastest computer we can for [TS]

01:56:11   our most demanding users but we're gonna [TS]

01:56:13   do a super obvious thing that makes it [TS]

01:56:14   slower in some small way so you're at [TS]

01:56:19   you keep asking who cares I'm telling [TS]

01:56:20   you who cares mean you don't care but I [TS]

01:56:22   care [TS]