The Accidental Tech Podcast

257: Smell the Wind


01:00:00   we this and almost nothing else image [TS]

01:00:01   capture says oh I can't do that because [TS]

01:00:04   of air 9 negative nine thousand nine [TS]

01:00:06   hundred seventeen and I was like wolf [TS]

01:00:07   crap at this point I'm basically using [TS]

01:00:09   Windows already that's a useful error [TS]

01:00:11   message negative nine nine thousand [TS]

01:00:12   seven system is negative number errors [TS]

01:00:16   right it's probably an OS status that's [TS]

01:00:18   that's uh that's that's deep Mac flavor [TS]

01:00:21   negative number and in a dialog error [TS]

01:00:23   dialog all I'm saying is it was a [TS]

01:00:26   completely non actionable error and I [TS]

01:00:30   could not find anything useful on the [TS]

01:00:33   internet about what to do about it and I [TS]

01:00:35   don't know if the issue was that [TS]

01:00:37   something on my iPhone is corrupted and [TS]

01:00:40   the issue is iOS software is kind of [TS]

01:00:42   broken or at least for me anyway I don't [TS]

01:00:45   know if it was something that was wrong [TS]

01:00:48   with my Mac I tried two different Mac's [TS]

01:00:51   had different but similar problems [TS]

01:00:53   across both it's just things like what [TS]

01:00:57   roommates I can tell you what the [TS]

01:00:58   problem was you were doing something [TS]

01:01:00   that Apple does not give that they could [TS]

01:01:03   not possibly give less efficient about [TS]

01:01:04   you were connecting an iPad or you can [TS]

01:01:07   se an iPhone to your Mac with a cable [TS]

01:01:11   and then you were launching an old [TS]

01:01:13   program from the Mac OS utilities folder [TS]

01:01:16   to try to take data off of your iPhone [TS]

01:01:18   over a wire Apple could not give less [TS]

01:01:21   efficient about that so it's never [TS]

01:01:23   tested and I think you're probably right [TS]

01:01:26   and that's just really too bad right and [TS]

01:01:28   maybe the problem is this gets me maybe [TS]

01:01:31   the problem is Kaycee again and that [TS]

01:01:33   maybe I just need to accept iCloud photo [TS]

01:01:35   library but for reasons that are not [TS]

01:01:37   interesting and that I don't care to [TS]

01:01:38   explain I'm not all in on iCloud photo [TS]

01:01:41   library and because it in the past it [TS]

01:01:45   was always fine because I would just I [TS]

01:01:46   would have to remember to pull things [TS]

01:01:47   off my phone but no big deal that it [TS]

01:01:49   worked every time a hundred percent of [TS]

01:01:52   the time it worked every time [TS]

01:01:53   now sixty percent of the time it works [TS]

01:01:55   every time that's also a reference John [TS]

01:01:57   so anyway though it's just it I found [TS]

01:02:00   myself and I think I made the same [TS]

01:02:02   speech again like six months ago I found [TS]

01:02:04   myself just more and more annoyed that [TS]

01:02:08   things that used to reliably work don't [TS]

01:02:11   work anymore [TS]

01:02:12   and it was such whiplash because in the [TS]

01:02:15   in in the same you know day or two [TS]

01:02:16   window I've just head over heels fallen [TS]

01:02:20   in love with this with this MacBook [TS]

01:02:22   adorable and thoughts myself you know [TS]

01:02:24   what even though I'm not the kind of [TS]

01:02:25   person to buy computers hourly like [TS]

01:02:27   Marco I I will probably get a new [TS]

01:02:31   adorable whenever it's refreshed because [TS]

01:02:34   I want more of this adorable [TS]

01:02:36   I want more speed I want more ports and [TS]

01:02:38   if they don't give me more ports that's [TS]

01:02:40   fine but if they give me more speed [TS]

01:02:41   that's great the adorable fans have to [TS]

01:02:43   buy every one because each one is barely [TS]

01:02:44   usable so any improvements like oh my [TS]

01:02:46   god please it's not that bad I [TS]

01:02:48   understand your point I understand your [TS]

01:02:50   point so I go from like just being [TS]

01:02:54   overjoyed by this adorable and generally [TS]

01:02:57   speaking I'm pretty overjoyed with my [TS]

01:02:58   iPhone 10 and then I just see these [TS]

01:03:01   software issues that are just depressing [TS]

01:03:05   and in disheartening it's pressing may [TS]

01:03:07   not be the right word but just just just [TS]

01:03:08   heartening and it makes me just feel [TS]

01:03:09   like it's like that throw your hands in [TS]

01:03:12   the air like and don't wave them like [TS]

01:03:14   you don't care cuz you do care you just [TS]

01:03:15   throw your hands in the air and then [TS]

01:03:16   plop them down on the desk you just like [TS]

01:03:17   well now what now what do I do cuz I'm [TS]

01:03:20   just screwed I mean where am I gonna go [TS]

01:03:22   and it's a rhetorical question and I [TS]

01:03:24   don't think we need to answer it but [TS]

01:03:26   it's just frustrating because it used to [TS]

01:03:28   be this was my happy place and maybe [TS]

01:03:30   maybe the problem is that said I'm [TS]

01:03:31   clinging to the Mac and the Mac is dead [TS]

01:03:33   again we don't need to go there we spent [TS]

01:03:35   so much time there it's not even worth [TS]

01:03:36   it plus I don't want to give Federico [TS]

01:03:38   and Mike the the pleasure but one way or [TS]

01:03:40   another it's I don't know where the [TS]

01:03:42   issue is if it's me if it's the Mac if [TS]

01:03:43   it's Apple if it's software it's [TS]

01:03:44   hardware it is in this case like you're [TS]

01:03:46   just sending your photos workflow is a [TS]

01:03:48   little bit old right and so I'm not like [TS]

01:03:51   Marco said you are exercising code paths [TS]

01:03:54   that are not popular anymore with most [TS]

01:03:57   other people so they're gonna be [TS]

01:03:59   abandoned not tested as much so you're [TS]

01:04:01   keeping your habits hey I use image [TS]

01:04:03   capture this is how I do my photos is [TS]

01:04:05   just the way I like to do it and time [TS]

01:04:07   marches on and everyone else has [TS]

01:04:10   different photo workflows they do not [TS]

01:04:12   exercise this code path at all it's kind [TS]

01:04:14   of like if you you know I I manually [TS]

01:04:16   arrange my music I don't want to use [TS]

01:04:18   iTunes so I manually arrange it and I [TS]

01:04:19   play the stuff manually from the finder [TS]

01:04:21   where it's like you can keep doing that [TS]

01:04:22   for a long time but once everyone starts [TS]

01:04:23   using iTunes it's hard to swim against [TS]

01:04:25   that tide no like [TS]

01:04:26   now they sell music and I'm forced to [TS]

01:04:27   use iTunes is the only way I can buy [TS]

01:04:28   music because I can play the Fairplay [TS]

01:04:30   beer and both like how long can you keep [TS]

01:04:32   doing it [TS]

01:04:32   the one old way that you did it you keep [TS]

01:04:34   doing it the one all the way forever [TS]

01:04:36   if you never update anything else about [TS]

01:04:37   your computing life right and but you [TS]

01:04:39   know it's it's hard to hold on to that [TS]

01:04:41   so it's like you know you're using [TS]

01:04:43   third-party software that fewer and [TS]

01:04:46   fewer people are using for the tasks [TS]

01:04:48   you're using it for [TS]

01:04:49   and you're asking more and more of it [TS]

01:04:52   because you're taking more bigger more [TS]

01:04:53   complicated pictures in different [TS]

01:04:55   formats alright so this it's not you [TS]

01:04:57   know I'm not saying you're doing [TS]

01:04:57   anything particularly wrong but it's [TS]

01:04:58   it's explicable right and I think [TS]

01:05:00   there's it's inevitable in situations [TS]

01:05:03   where you're like that we don't have [TS]

01:05:04   computer habits that are like that we're [TS]

01:05:06   like I'm just gonna keep doing it this [TS]

01:05:07   way until I can't do it anymore I think [TS]

01:05:08   you may be approaching the until you [TS]

01:05:10   can't do it anymore [TS]

01:05:12   think because unless you're gonna write [TS]

01:05:13   the Mac app yourself to handle this [TS]

01:05:15   which you were just entertaining the [TS]

01:05:16   idea of doing probably there's not a big [TS]

01:05:19   market for other people to write Mac [TS]

01:05:21   applications to support these kind of [TS]

01:05:22   workflows so as I think we have all done [TS]

01:05:26   at various points there comes a time [TS]

01:05:28   where you say I will give in and try [TS]

01:05:30   whatever everyone else is doing try the [TS]

01:05:33   you know iCloud photo library try Google [TS]

01:05:36   photos try get back on the code path [TS]

01:05:39   that is being actively developed that [TS]

01:05:41   has lots of people using and that if it [TS]

01:05:42   breaks spectacularly at least you'll be [TS]

01:05:43   suffering along with millions of other [TS]

01:05:45   people who will cause the thing to be [TS]

01:05:46   fixed whereas here you are just [TS]

01:05:47   screaming to the void about a very high [TS]

01:05:50   number negative error code from from [TS]

01:05:55   image capture and by the way I put a [TS]

01:05:56   link in in our notes for the good old [TS]

01:05:59   days of negative numbers and error [TS]

01:06:01   messages from the Mac when most of them [TS]

01:06:03   were singular double digits before we [TS]

01:06:05   got into negative nine thousand four [TS]

01:06:06   hundred and seventy-eight we had good [TS]

01:06:08   old negative 27 and it was like a good [TS]

01:06:10   friend and then you'd have to turn your [TS]

01:06:11   computer off and back on again no memory [TS]

01:06:13   protection so I agree with everything [TS]

01:06:15   you said but with one small correction I [TS]

01:06:18   the the pieces of this workflow that are [TS]

01:06:20   falling down right now that that I was [TS]

01:06:23   complaining or that I'm without I was [TS]

01:06:24   complaining about a moment ago that was [TS]

01:06:26   all first party you had said third party [TS]

01:06:27   maybe that was accidental but this is [TS]

01:06:29   image capture which is first party using [TS]

01:06:31   then it was like Marco said it's [TS]

01:06:33   something you dig in something that I've [TS]

01:06:34   liked is that in utilities folder but [TS]

01:06:35   anyway yes it is first party there's [TS]

01:06:37   lots of applications [TS]

01:06:38   that come with the Mac that haven't been [TS]

01:06:39   touched in forever or end that if they [TS]

01:06:41   stop working who's gonna notice like [TS]

01:06:43   when's the last time you launch the [TS]

01:06:44   chest application as I still work are [TS]

01:06:46   there bugs in the chest application I [TS]

01:06:47   don't know also like the conditions that [TS]

01:06:49   it's like this is operating in are [TS]

01:06:50   changing like now that iCloud photo [TS]

01:06:52   library is on phones and that photo [TS]

01:06:54   management is kind of automatic and [TS]

01:06:56   managed you know on on the device the [TS]

01:06:58   interface to interface capture like [TS]

01:07:00   exposing the DCIM folder and exposing [TS]

01:07:03   photos like like you know through a [TS]

01:07:05   virtual file system on the phone that [TS]

01:07:07   the computer can just copy off of like I [TS]

01:07:09   think that's all simulated at this point [TS]

01:07:11   or something [TS]

01:07:11   it's it's different it's all weird now [TS]

01:07:13   because iCloud photo library messes with [TS]

01:07:15   what photos are actually on the phone [TS]

01:07:17   and what control you have over that and [TS]

01:07:19   like if things try to access them weird [TS]

01:07:21   things might happen so like it's [TS]

01:07:22   probably running into something is [TS]

01:07:24   different now with that versus with [TS]

01:07:27   maybe the you know the HCI C and he you [TS]

01:07:30   know change over and not to mention the [TS]

01:07:33   High Sierra appears that nothing has [TS]

01:07:35   been tested at all in the entire OS ever [TS]

01:07:37   so like you know it's the combination of [TS]

01:07:40   all these things like you have one of [TS]

01:07:41   those one of those things is going to [TS]

01:07:42   make your incredibly low priority use [TS]

01:07:45   case not work but this is like you know [TS]

01:07:48   this is not an excuse this is probably [TS]

01:07:49   just the reason ultimately this is like [TS]

01:07:52   I I totally share I think your your [TS]

01:07:55   disappointment here it's like clearly [TS]

01:07:58   you know both the hardware and the [TS]

01:08:00   software on the Mac we're really being [TS]

01:08:02   elected for a few few bad years there it [TS]

01:08:04   seems like they have righted or are [TS]

01:08:07   riding the ship on the hardware side but [TS]

01:08:10   the software side I don't see any sign [TS]

01:08:13   of that and that's so like we're just [TS]

01:08:16   gonna keep having more and more [TS]

01:08:19   embarrassing disheartening OS releases [TS]

01:08:21   where it seems like more gets broken [TS]

01:08:24   then gets fixed that's my concern and I [TS]

01:08:27   hope that doesn't come past but so far [TS]

01:08:29   that is what's happening we have brought [TS]

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01:08:47   to make there's pretty much no reason if [TS]

01:08:50   you need to make a new website somewhere [TS]

01:08:52   there's pretty much no reason to make it [TS]

01:08:53   anywhere else try to make it a square [TS]

01:08:55   space first see how far you get I bet [TS]

01:08:57   you can pretty much do whatever you need [TS]

01:08:59   to do with most websites today of a [TS]

01:09:00   Squarespace in almost no time with [TS]

01:09:03   almost no effort and with almost no [TS]

01:09:04   maintenance overtime this to me is like [TS]

01:09:06   where it really winds is like if you [TS]

01:09:08   were starting a new blog or podcast or [TS]

01:09:11   video or business or gallery or whatever [TS]

01:09:14   that somebody needs a website you can do [TS]

01:09:16   it other means you and and if you listen [TS]

01:09:18   to this show you probably know how to [TS]

01:09:19   make websites and other means but how [TS]

01:09:21   much work is it gonna be and are you [TS]

01:09:23   signing yourself up for an indefinite [TS]

01:09:25   period of server maintenance or CMS [TS]

01:09:27   maintenance and with Squarespace you [TS]

01:09:29   don't have to deal with that you make [TS]

01:09:30   the site you put your content in it it's [TS]

01:09:32   drag-and-drop it's easy to use no coding [TS]

01:09:34   required and then you're done you can [TS]

01:09:37   customize it to your heart's content you [TS]

01:09:39   can and then you're just working on your [TS]

01:09:40   business or you're working on your [TS]

01:09:41   podcast or you're adding things to your [TS]

01:09:43   gallery it's that easy you don't have to [TS]

01:09:45   worry about all the technical stuff you [TS]

01:09:46   don't have to worry about upgrading your [TS]

01:09:47   CMS or patching it for security holes or [TS]

01:09:50   rebooting your servers it's pretty great [TS]

01:09:52   honestly it's pretty freeing whether [TS]

01:09:53   you're making a site for yourself or [TS]

01:09:55   that someone else has asked you may be [TS]

01:09:56   the nerd in their life to make a site [TS]

01:09:58   for them get yourself out of the [TS]

01:10:00   business of hosting websites let [TS]

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01:10:23   something happy for us to talk about [TS]

01:10:24   well hmmm [TS]

01:10:26   there actually is let me yeah I was I [TS]

01:10:30   was saving this but do you want to do [TS]

01:10:32   ask ATP that's always that pretty happy [TS]

01:10:34   yes let's do a CTP and then I have an [TS]

01:10:36   after-show gift for you Casey to [TS]

01:10:38   celebrate your new baby another baby no [TS]

01:10:41   it's it's it's literally it is a gift [TS]

01:10:43   for Casey you'll see all right let's do [TS]

01:10:45   a skating right if we're talking about [TS]

01:10:46   the Mac Pro I'm hanging up we're not [TS]

01:10:48   that's first of all part one of the gift [TS]

01:10:50   is we're not talking with the Mac Pro [TS]

01:10:51   all right fair enough all right starting [TS]

01:10:53   with the ask a teepee Eric Berlin writes [TS]

01:10:56   do you expect the release of the iMac [TS]

01:10:58   Pro will slow the update cadence of the [TS]

01:11:00   non Pro iMac for example would Apple [TS]

01:11:03   hold back a 6 core coffee like iMac [TS]

01:11:05   config [TS]

01:11:06   in 2018 because it would outperform the [TS]

01:11:08   eight core Zeon W configuration in the [TS]

01:11:11   current Mac Pro it's an interesting [TS]

01:11:13   question I would think that it would not [TS]

01:11:18   slow things down because they're they're [TS]

01:11:20   serving different purposes and me okay [TS]

01:11:22   maybe single core is way better on the [TS]

01:11:25   non pro iMac but presumably multi-core [TS]

01:11:27   will always be way way way way way [TS]

01:11:29   better on the iMac Pro so I don't think [TS]

01:11:33   this would be the case but I am not [TS]

01:11:34   terribly confident in my guess here [TS]

01:11:36   Marco terribly confident I [TS]

01:11:40   yeah to me it's no question the iMac Pro [TS]

01:11:43   was like they're not going to hold back [TS]

01:11:46   new releases of the regular iMac that [TS]

01:11:49   outpace or come close to the iMac pros [TS]

01:11:53   performance in certain ways due to the [TS]

01:11:55   progress of the consumer CPUs versus the [TS]

01:11:57   progress of the Zeon's I know that I [TS]

01:11:59   really have them yeah I know this [TS]

01:12:00   because not only is the current iMac [TS]

01:12:03   faster in single core but most of the [TS]

01:12:05   microcut it will always be almost yeah [TS]

01:12:08   but also there I did it once the 2013 [TS]

01:12:11   Mac Pro cylinder that came out was [TS]

01:12:13   bested seven months later or eight [TS]

01:12:16   months later when the iMac 5k came out [TS]

01:12:18   and those processors were faster than in [TS]

01:12:20   single core so they've already done this [TS]

01:12:23   in the past it is currently the case [TS]

01:12:25   they don't let that control them at all [TS]

01:12:28   Apple is confident enough and neglectful [TS]

01:12:31   enough of the Mac Pro but they it's a [TS]

01:12:34   combination of like you know they know [TS]

01:12:36   that like I'm Mac Pro buyers are not [TS]

01:12:38   going to not buy the iMac fro in [TS]

01:12:41   meaningful numbers because the newest [TS]

01:12:43   iMac is now slightly faster in single [TS]

01:12:46   threaded tasks that's that's not a major [TS]

01:12:49   factor for most Pro buyers also I don't [TS]

01:12:52   think Apple would care and also they you [TS]

01:12:55   know that they're not they would never [TS]

01:12:58   hold back the release plans of consumer [TS]

01:13:04   lines in order to favor a Mac Pro lie he [TS]

01:13:08   told care about the Mac Pro to do that [TS]

01:13:09   but it's at the time yeah and if they [TS]

01:13:11   had to wait on Xeon timelines they would [TS]

01:13:12   never update anything it would be [TS]

01:13:14   ridiculous like part of this is Intel [TS]

01:13:15   but like but but honestly it's like it [TS]

01:13:18   the single core differences like it's [TS]

01:13:20   good for bragging right in benchmarks [TS]

01:13:22   you're a few percentage faster but the [TS]

01:13:25   multi-core difference when you have 18 [TS]

01:13:27   cores for a good parallel thing is [TS]

01:13:28   you're you know you're many times faster [TS]

01:13:31   so it's the difference of like minor [TS]

01:13:32   percentages and bragging rights versus a [TS]

01:13:36   fundamental change in your workflow of [TS]

01:13:39   like if I can do this three times faster [TS]

01:13:41   that's why you buy a pro Mac if you know [TS]

01:13:44   and if you want fastest single core [TS]

01:13:45   performance Apple sells you one of those [TS]

01:13:47   like if that's what you want like for [TS]

01:13:48   you know you have some tasks that is you [TS]

01:13:50   can't make multi-threaded and you want [TS]

01:13:52   the absolute fastest machine you can do [TS]

01:13:53   it [TS]

01:13:53   Apple will sell you one but it's gonna [TS]

01:13:56   make a change in your life that is in [TS]

01:13:58   like single or double digit percentages [TS]

01:14:00   it's not going to be like 500 percent [TS]

01:14:02   faster like it might be if you go from a [TS]

01:14:04   you know a low core count on a low-end [TS]

01:14:08   iMac to 18 cores on the top-end [TS]

01:14:11   iMac Pro so I honestly I don't think I [TS]

01:14:13   don't think they really compete with [TS]

01:14:14   each other now it could be argued that [TS]

01:14:16   you know for the people who just want [TS]

01:14:17   everything all the time which you know [TS]

01:14:19   we've been so conditioned to expects a [TS]

01:14:21   little but I ask you this but yeah you [TS]

01:14:22   can take one of those Intel CPUs that [TS]

01:14:28   has the fastest single core performance [TS]

01:14:29   and wedge it into an iMac Pro if they [TS]

01:14:32   make one of those that supports ECC Ram [TS]

01:14:33   like the eye nine or whatever or [TS]

01:14:35   something like that like you could say [TS]

01:14:37   why why won't Apple sell me an iMac Pro [TS]

01:14:39   with a low core count that is just as [TS]

01:14:42   fast as the iMac 5k yeah you know like I [TS]

01:14:46   don't think again I don't think there's [TS]

01:14:47   a demand for that like if you want that [TS]

01:14:48   buy 5k iMac because you know it's not [TS]

01:14:54   it's not appreciably different right [TS]

01:14:55   you're not getting the big multi-core [TS]

01:14:56   performance the reason it's so fast in [TS]

01:14:59   single core is because well it's that [TS]

01:15:01   it's not busy online so it's revved more [TS]

01:15:02   and because you can go faster where you [TS]

01:15:04   don't have so many damn cores shoved [TS]

01:15:05   inside there so it's a long way of [TS]

01:15:09   answering Eric's question to say they [TS]

01:15:11   won't hold it back don't worry okay they [TS]

01:15:13   might not ship new iMacs for other [TS]

01:15:15   reasons but believe me it's not because [TS]

01:15:17   they're afraid of stopping on their pro [TS]

01:15:18   max all right Andy Hume writes what are [TS]

01:15:21   John's plans for his cheese grater after [TS]

01:15:23   he replaces it sell it donate it to the [TS]

01:15:25   Hackett collection and I'm going to add [TS]

01:15:27   my guess which is it'll go in your attic [TS]

01:15:30   never to be seen again [TS]

01:15:31   yeah I had a collection before Hackett [TS]

01:15:35   was in short pants Wow giant collection [TS]

01:15:39   of stuff in my attic that's probably [TS]

01:15:40   where it's going room but I have a half [TS]

01:15:41   of mine to answer this literally because [TS]

01:15:44   I actually do have plans for and [TS]

01:15:48   collections of actual cheese graders [TS]

01:15:51   because oXXO makes it actually used to [TS]

01:15:55   make a cheese grater for that I used to [TS]

01:15:57   grate cheese it was the one hard cheese [TS]

01:16:01   grater that I found like very satisfying [TS]

01:16:04   and they stopped the making it so much [TS]

01:16:08   they stopped making it because it had [TS]

01:16:10   like a design flaw like it had had this [TS]

01:16:12   flappy plastic part of it that would [TS]

01:16:15   eventually crack so I kind of understand [TS]

01:16:17   why they stopped making it because you [TS]

01:16:19   know it would last like a couple of [TS]

01:16:20   years and then that thing would crack so [TS]

01:16:22   it's like oh you know we need to go back [TS]

01:16:24   to the drawing board because yeah this [TS]

01:16:25   thing is great but eventually it cracks [TS]

01:16:26   and the one they replaced it with is [TS]

01:16:29   terrible it is ergonomically bad you [TS]

01:16:32   don't get as much mechanical advantage [TS]

01:16:34   when you no pressing the cheese against [TS]

01:16:37   the the grating part that turns or [TS]

01:16:39   whatever I continue to wish and hope for [TS]

01:16:42   and have many times thought about trying [TS]

01:16:44   to tinker my way into a electric powered [TS]

01:16:47   one of these because it is difficult to [TS]

01:16:49   do and tiring kind of tedious if you use [TS]

01:16:52   as much Parmesan cheese as I do to [TS]

01:16:53   constantly have to be grading it by hand [TS]

01:16:56   you can't really use a food processor or [TS]

01:16:58   any other things for a variety of other [TS]

01:17:00   reasons you kind of need something it's [TS]

01:17:01   slow high torque anyway I've thought [TS]

01:17:02   about it a little bit but in the [TS]

01:17:03   meantime these Oxford cheeseburgers they [TS]

01:17:05   don't make anymore [TS]

01:17:06   I think either I or my wife for some [TS]

01:17:09   combination like we waited too long we [TS]

01:17:12   realized we went to like buy a new one [TS]

01:17:14   after one of ours cracked mic we can't [TS]

01:17:15   find it anymore what happened to when [TS]

01:17:16   you found it it was discontinued and we [TS]

01:17:18   tried a bunch of other ones and they all [TS]

01:17:19   suck and it was like we need to there's [TS]

01:17:21   no we need to just find every one of [TS]

01:17:23   these things it's still for sale so I [TS]

01:17:24   have like a collection of three of them [TS]

01:17:26   I think in the basement my current one [TS]

01:17:28   is slowly cracking upstairs in my [TS]

01:17:30   kitchen right now and when I go through [TS]

01:17:32   those three like I don't know what I'm [TS]

01:17:33   gonna do it may be at that point it's [TS]

01:17:35   time for me to build my electric powered [TS]

01:17:37   one but anyway my plans for my cheese [TS]

01:17:39   graters are grim like I don't know what [TS]

01:17:41   I'm gonna do after I go through all [TS]

01:17:42   three of them but my friends alone [TS]

01:17:44   MacPro [TS]

01:17:45   it will go into my attic alongside its [TS]

01:17:46   brethren surely it will because this is [TS]

01:17:49   one of my champion max of all times it [TS]

01:17:51   will go it will have a place of honor [TS]

01:17:52   next to my ac30 Wow I never in a million [TS]

01:17:56   years did I think that that was where [TS]

01:18:00   this was this question was going to end [TS]

01:18:02   up and I this is one of the reasons I [TS]

01:18:05   love this show so damn much because [TS]

01:18:07   that's where we ended up alrighty and [TS]

01:18:09   finally in our diversion into a skate EP [TS]

01:18:13   that's going to make us happy again Kurt [TS]

01:18:15   asks hey remember messages in iCloud [TS]

01:18:18   whomp-whomp [TS]

01:18:19   is this question like what's the quit [TS]

01:18:22   yeah honestly I almost forgot about it [TS]

01:18:24   but like yeah there's there's no look [TS]

01:18:27   there's no news here if they announced [TS]

01:18:28   it it isn't here you know it it probably [TS]

01:18:31   got delayed until the next OS release oh [TS]

01:18:33   well I wanted actually is a topic in the [TS]

01:18:39   list for a long time and it kept getting [TS]

01:18:41   pushed down and I want to say to this [TS]

01:18:43   question yeah I remember it looking [TS]

01:18:47   forward to it every time I go to [TS]

01:18:48   messages and I see a different [TS]

01:18:50   collection of messages and a different [TS]

01:18:52   conversation contents on my Mac and on [TS]

01:18:53   my phone that are like sitting two feet [TS]

01:18:55   from each other I think why why does [TS]

01:18:56   this have to be this way so I really [TS]

01:18:59   hope fine if it's not done like by all [TS]

01:19:00   means like wait until it's done right [TS]

01:19:02   but I really really hope that this [TS]

01:19:05   feature appears eventually yeah me too [TS]

01:19:07   it mean there's a reason why I got like [TS]

01:19:09   a noticeable applause during the keynote [TS]

01:19:11   where it was announced last summer but [TS]

01:19:13   you know yeah it's it's a kind of thing [TS]

01:19:15   like if look if it's not done don't ship [TS]

01:19:17   it if it's unreliable or if it's broken [TS]

01:19:18   like the system we have now is already [TS]

01:19:21   and reliable in Birken we don't need to [TS]

01:19:22   be broken in new ways like let's wait [TS]

01:19:24   until it works right and then ship it [TS]

01:19:26   and then you know I'd rather have it you [TS]

01:19:28   know late then wrong well thanks to our [TS]

01:19:31   sponsors this week Squarespace hello and [TS]

01:19:34   our X bar and we will see you next week [TS]

01:19:40   now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:19:43   mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

01:19:47   oh it was accidental Johnny research [TS]

01:19:52   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because [TS]

01:19:56   it was accidental it was accidental you [TS]

01:20:01   can find the show notes at a CAS pyl ISS [TS]

01:20:15   so that's Casey list and a are Co AR m [TS]

01:20:19   and T Marco Arment [TS]

01:20:22   si R ACC Syracuse [TS]

01:20:40   so Casey I have a gift for you okay I [TS]

01:20:44   was I was wondering where whether to [TS]

01:20:47   keep this secret how long to keep the [TS]

01:20:49   secret but at some point the secret is [TS]

01:20:52   going to fall out so I figured I might [TS]

01:20:53   as well come clean with you now oh my [TS]

01:20:57   god I think he fired you somehow I got [TS]

01:21:00   you fired from your job that's his gift [TS]

01:21:02   that's it yeah yeah I really know as you [TS]

01:21:04   to your boss say well filled with full [TS]

01:21:07   of profanity that would be for me so it [TS]

01:21:09   doesn't make sense yeah actually yes so [TS]

01:21:13   my gift to you is revealing the secret [TS]

01:21:17   Tiff's got me a vinyl player for [TS]

01:21:21   Christmas look at the box they're [TS]

01:21:29   definitely not called vinyl players this [TS]

01:21:34   is the best moment of my life right now [TS]

01:21:35   yeah you could use a gift after after [TS]

01:21:39   your probably sleepless week all right [TS]

01:21:41   so can you can you uh can you give me [TS]

01:21:43   context for this like is she buying it [TS]

01:21:45   for you as a joke is it something that [TS]

01:21:47   you mentioned you want is it something [TS]

01:21:49   that she wanted and is passing it off as [TS]

01:21:51   a gift to you but really she wants it is [TS]

01:21:53   this her bowling ball so we've had the [TS]

01:21:57   hello Internet episode of vinyl sitting [TS]

01:22:00   on like two years or however long it's [TS]

01:22:05   been since it came out [TS]

01:22:06   does she know she can make a player out [TS]

01:22:08   of a cone of paper and a needle did not [TS]

01:22:11   know that actually I guess that makes [TS]

01:22:13   sense yeah yeah anyway so we got she got [TS]

01:22:17   me a turntable so that we could play the [TS]

01:22:19   hello internet vinyl and I have a [TS]

01:22:22   turntable and I have that that [TS]

01:22:24   particular record the spoilers not at a [TS]

01:22:26   time not even either I've had it for [TS]

01:22:28   forever and I still haven't had a chance [TS]

01:22:30   to play it so I'm right there with you [TS]

01:22:31   but that's awesome so I need to start [TS]

01:22:35   sending you actual good music in the [TS]

01:22:37   snot fish post paste well and she also [TS]

01:22:40   got me a fish album she got me yeah [TS]

01:22:43   a live one in history giveth and taketh [TS]

01:22:45   away [TS]

01:22:47   so so I we've actually so I actually [TS]

01:22:51   decided you know because also over the [TS]

01:22:53   holidays we visited Mike and Adina and [TS]

01:22:56   they had a turntable and they were and [TS]

01:22:59   we we they were playing music on it [TS]

01:23:01   during our entire you know you know meal [TS]

01:23:05   there and it was really nice to just [TS]

01:23:07   kind of be hanging out and to have music [TS]

01:23:09   playing now yeah you can't do that [TS]

01:23:11   without vinyl that's for sure right and [TS]

01:23:13   so it was nice though and so it okay [TS]

01:23:17   let's I'll try this on like you know [TS]

01:23:20   it's it's like trying on a new style of [TS]

01:23:22   hat or something it's like here's [TS]

01:23:24   something that like the hip people are [TS]

01:23:26   doing I don't know if I don't know if [TS]

01:23:28   this is my thing but I'll try it on you [TS]

01:23:30   know and so I tried it on and so I have [TS]

01:23:33   a couple of albums you know and also by [TS]

01:23:36   the way [TS]

01:23:36   boy do I suck at buying vinyl there's a [TS]

01:23:40   lot of albums that are available on [TS]

01:23:42   violently the modern album so you know [TS]

01:23:43   besides like the night you know the ones [TS]

01:23:45   that were originally issued on vinyl [TS]

01:23:46   like in like the 60s and stuff [TS]

01:23:48   but there's a lot of like modern modern [TS]

01:23:50   albums and reissues from like the 90s [TS]

01:23:53   and stuff that have been reissued now [TS]

01:23:55   and vinyl now that now that's like a [TS]

01:23:56   growth business that you can charge [TS]

01:23:58   people twenty five dollars for the same [TS]

01:23:59   album they bought twenty years ago most [TS]

01:24:02   of them that I have found like about [TS]

01:24:04   half of the ones I have found I have [TS]

01:24:06   accidentally bought them where it's like [TS]

01:24:08   they split what was one CD on to two [TS]

01:24:13   records and so each side of each record [TS]

01:24:17   has three or two songs on it followed by [TS]

01:24:20   this giant wide strip of black silence [TS]

01:24:23   in the middle yes so this is like I know [TS]

01:24:28   how to use them you don't remember that [TS]

01:24:30   like you don't remember one of the [TS]

01:24:32   things about CDs being its capacity for [TS]

01:24:35   like how many minutes of audio you can [TS]

01:24:37   have on it and with the compromises [TS]

01:24:39   about the inner and outer tracks like [TS]

01:24:40   that those things were gone like that [TS]

01:24:42   was one of the innovations of CDs oh my [TS]

01:24:45   god I just figured it out yeah cuz the [TS]

01:24:47   air the outer tracks will rotate more so [TS]

01:24:49   they'll have more fidelity oh that's why [TS]

01:24:51   they do it final as the show oh that's [TS]

01:24:54   those ticks all right did you see [TS]

01:24:57   I was trying to think of a way to say it [TS]

01:25:00   without cursing but I just said after [TS]

01:25:02   show yeah so like he so let me tell you [TS]

01:25:05   my annoyance is first then I'll get into [TS]

01:25:06   some things I actually like about it [TS]

01:25:08   yeah like so many like I bought albums [TS]

01:25:12   thinking like oh I love this album it's [TS]

01:25:14   good because you might get my criteria [TS]

01:25:16   is obviously things that I want to play [TS]

01:25:20   like out loud with other people around [TS]

01:25:22   that I wouldn't be embarrassed by the [TS]

01:25:24   whole album has to be good all the way [TS]

01:25:26   through cuz skipping songs is not really [TS]

01:25:28   an easy thing oh it's not bad I [TS]

01:25:30   understand your point but it's not bad [TS]

01:25:32   so anyway and and I had to get a photo [TS]

01:25:34   preamp so I got of course the one from [TS]

01:25:36   shit I forgive that alright this record [TS]

01:25:39   player is just a way for a marker to buy [TS]

01:25:40   more amps and other German boxes with [TS]

01:25:43   vulgar names one box a photo preamp [TS]

01:25:46   because the turntable do not have a [TS]

01:25:47   built-in preamp okay so first of all I'm [TS]

01:25:50   like you know I connect everything up [TS]

01:25:51   and there's like just constant constant [TS]

01:25:54   low-level noise coming out of speaker [TS]

01:25:57   and I'm like well something's wrong warm [TS]

01:25:59   doesn't it yes so it's like I get like I [TS]

01:26:01   got a ground loop isolator I tried that [TS]

01:26:04   tried like a power isolating brick I [TS]

01:26:05   tried like different different cables in [TS]

01:26:07   case the cables were introducing [TS]

01:26:09   interferences everything's analog so [TS]

01:26:10   like everything can use interference and [TS]

01:26:12   in all analog signal path tried lots of [TS]

01:26:14   things isolated lots of things it turns [TS]

01:26:16   out yeah that's just like the noise [TS]

01:26:17   floor of this cartridge or whatever it's [TS]

01:26:19   like there's no like it isn't the ground [TS]

01:26:21   loop it isn't electrical interference [TS]

01:26:23   like it's it's just like yeah just the [TS]

01:26:26   noise floor isn't that isn't that low [TS]

01:26:29   and and definitely the my least favorite [TS]

01:26:35   thing about playing them is how often [TS]

01:26:38   you have to flip it over because each [TS]

01:26:40   side holds I think a maximum of [TS]

01:26:41   something like 22 minutes or 20 minutes [TS]

01:26:42   something like that you know these [TS]

01:26:44   number John no I don't remember from my [TS]

01:26:46   youth but I'm sure I surely do remember [TS]

01:26:48   flipping yeah exactly so you have to [TS]

01:26:50   flip them you know every like four or [TS]

01:26:52   five songs basically unless you have one [TS]

01:26:55   of these stupid audiophile ones that I [TS]

01:26:57   accidentally bought where it's like you [TS]

01:26:59   take one out and split onto four and you [TS]

01:27:01   go about every two songs thanks a lot [TS]

01:27:03   anyway I will say in in this endeavor [TS]

01:27:07   there are things that I [TS]

01:27:11   unexpectedly like about it the best way [TS]

01:27:15   I can the best metaphor I've come up [TS]

01:27:16   with for this is it's kind of like a [TS]

01:27:19   Kindle is for reading like a Kindle does [TS]

01:27:24   not look as good as an iPad or a printed [TS]

01:27:26   page like the the the resolution of the [TS]

01:27:29   text is nowhere near it even on the new [TS]

01:27:30   Kindles with the higher resolution [TS]

01:27:31   screens - no it's nowhere close to [TS]

01:27:33   either print or even Retina screens on [TS]

01:27:35   an iPad pro like a Kindle by all [TS]

01:27:38   accounts looks worse it also does less [TS]

01:27:41   and functions worse in a number of ways [TS]

01:27:44   than other ways to read books but the [TS]

01:27:47   the appeal of Kindles is that they can [TS]

01:27:52   do nothing else so it it kind of helps [TS]

01:27:56   you appreciate the book more that this [TS]

01:27:59   that if you're using this device to read [TS]

01:28:01   books that's all you're doing like [TS]

01:28:04   that's all you you kind of have to put [TS]

01:28:06   some effort into it that's all you're [TS]

01:28:07   doing it's not going to ever do anything [TS]

01:28:09   else it's very simple etc playing music [TS]

01:28:13   on vinyl is a pain in the X but it's a [TS]

01:28:17   way to like deliberately sit down and [TS]

01:28:21   choose to enjoy an album and this works [TS]

01:28:25   especially for me because I'm I've [TS]

01:28:27   always been an album listener even when [TS]

01:28:30   I listen to mp3s and everything I don't [TS]

01:28:32   listen on shuffle to my whole collection [TS]

01:28:33   or anything I don't make playlists I [TS]

01:28:35   listen to albums all the way through [TS]

01:28:37   that's how I've always listened for like [TS]

01:28:39   the last 20 years like that's just how I [TS]

01:28:41   listen to music and I've joked Tift like [TS]

01:28:44   oh we could've just gotten a CD player [TS]

01:28:48   I'm gonna say there are other devices [TS]

01:28:51   music I know I know but I'm saying like [TS]

01:28:54   you know this is a pain in the end and [TS]

01:28:56   it's a novelty and it's you know I don't [TS]

01:29:00   expect to be playing vinyl forever and [TS]

01:29:02   it doesn't sound better it sounds worse [TS]

01:29:03   notes will be worse you know I'm not I'm [TS]

01:29:05   not [TS]

01:29:06   my-my-my making fun of Casey in the past [TS]

01:29:09   on vinyl is that you know I don't mind [TS]

01:29:10   if people say they enjoy it more I do [TS]

01:29:12   mind when people say it sounds better [TS]

01:29:13   because it doesn't and it can't and it [TS]

01:29:15   never will but I do appreciate the [TS]

01:29:20   activity of playing music on vinyl now [TS]

01:29:25   in a way I didn't appreciate before so [TS]

01:29:27   that is my gift to you Casey you need to [TS]

01:29:30   get one of those I don't know if they [TS]

01:29:31   make these but like the best analogy is [TS]

01:29:34   like one of these things you use for [TS]

01:29:35   like pets or animals where like it looks [TS]

01:29:38   like a record player and you put a [TS]

01:29:40   record on it and you put the little [TS]

01:29:41   needle in and you hear the little [TS]

01:29:43   crackle but then what actually happens [TS]

01:29:45   is behind the scenes it plays just you [TS]

01:29:47   know a digital audio file that is [TS]

01:29:49   exactly equivalent to whatever record [TS]

01:29:52   you put on there so you can get the [TS]

01:29:53   audio quality you want with all the [TS]

01:29:55   other stuff that you want from her like [TS]

01:29:57   so you get you get all the ceremony of [TS]

01:29:59   doing it help make the make the digital [TS]

01:30:00   audio file stop and make you flip the [TS]

01:30:02   disc before it plays the next two tracks [TS]

01:30:04   I've actually been scheming like I [TS]

01:30:06   wonder if I could get a Raspberry Pi or [TS]

01:30:08   something [TS]

01:30:08   next to the record player and just put [TS]

01:30:10   an SD card and had like have cheap SD [TS]

01:30:13   cards in the pocket of each vinyl cover [TS]

01:30:15   and just like stick it so you just what [TS]

01:30:19   you just want to do is put a plastic [TS]

01:30:21   disc on something and drop a needle on [TS]

01:30:22   it that's what you want to happen and [TS]

01:30:24   they use music play music doesn't have [TS]

01:30:26   to come from that thing yeah it's anyway [TS]

01:30:29   well so you didn't you didn't adequately [TS]

01:30:31   explain to me I guess it was it was it [TS]

01:30:33   just the the hello intern and that's [TS]

01:30:35   like literally it or just if actually [TS]

01:30:37   was to have actually convinced by the [TS]

01:30:38   the moon hipsters from London that this [TS]

01:30:40   is a thing they have to do you have to [TS]

01:30:42   do to regain your youth and coolness I [TS]

01:30:43   think some of both certainly and you [TS]

01:30:46   know it's a cool thing it's it's a [TS]

01:30:47   really nicely designed object like it's [TS]

01:30:49   a nice like hipster turntable it's like [TS]

01:30:51   this like you know minimal minimal [TS]

01:30:52   visual design thing made of wood like [TS]

01:30:55   it's really nice-looking so I think it's [TS]

01:30:58   a combination of all those things [TS]

01:30:59   well I'm very disappointed in you Marco [TS]

01:31:01   oh yeah you I'm very disappointed in [TS]

01:31:03   Mike Medina but uh you know they're [TS]

01:31:06   young so next year I'll buy I'll buy an [TS]

01:31:10   SI CD player maybe and I'll tell you how [TS]

01:31:12   that goes oh no I would not be I would [TS]

01:31:14   say there you go you know you're on the [TS]

01:31:16   right track you got to get a Nakamichi [TS]

01:31:18   stereo and a super audio CD player and [TS]

01:31:20   what was the other one DVD audio DVD a [TS]

01:31:23   yeah I think that's dead I think si CD I [TS]

01:31:25   mean both formats as well you can get [TS]

01:31:29   like if you get a Sony blu-ray player it [TS]

01:31:32   will it's they're almost all also si CD [TS]

01:31:34   players hmm so you so I could get like a [TS]

01:31:36   Sony 4k blue because I was saying like [TS]

01:31:38   maybe I should have [TS]

01:31:38   okay blu-ray player okay TV now yeah [TS]

01:31:41   exactly so I could all have it you can [TS]

01:31:43   think I think of the ceremony of the [TS]

01:31:44   blu-ray as you wait for a Java to load [TS]

01:31:46   the stupid menus that's all part of the [TS]

01:31:47   ceremony Margot I met it's very I'm very [TS]

01:31:51   yeah I want to be very clear here I [TS]

01:31:52   don't give two craps about the ceremony [TS]

01:31:54   I I appreciate the idea of sitting down [TS]

01:31:58   to deliberately and only listen to music [TS]

01:32:01   like to to just enjoy the music that is [TS]

01:32:04   playing and not have it be part of a [TS]

01:32:08   whole separate like computing experience [TS]

01:32:11   and multimedia device and everything [TS]

01:32:13   like it's it's hard you could just get a [TS]

01:32:15   CD player I'm not convinced you don't [TS]

01:32:17   you don't care about the ceremony I [TS]

01:32:19   don't care about ceremony I'm not [TS]

01:32:20   convinced and and just just give you a [TS]

01:32:23   few more days I'm flipping these discs [TS]

01:32:24   and believe me you know what else you [TS]

01:32:27   can do with records you might remember [TS]

01:32:29   from your youth they shatter real good [TS]

01:32:30   when you have fights with them well it's [TS]

01:32:33   also it's kind of cool to lay first of [TS]

01:32:34   all like the the the services like like [TS]

01:32:39   I've been buying most of them on Amazon [TS]

01:32:40   the ones that are still in print at [TS]

01:32:42   least and it's cool because like they [TS]

01:32:44   include a digital copy if you buy vinyl [TS]

01:32:47   in Amazon it automatically adds that [TS]

01:32:49   album to your music collection that is [TS]

01:32:51   the most millennia lips or thing I've [TS]

01:32:53   ever heard in my life well I'm sure you [TS]

01:32:55   buy a record and it comes yeah yeah cut [TS]

01:32:59   some of the ones I bought have the CD in [TS]

01:33:02   a paper sleeve inside the inside the [TS]

01:33:04   fire like it comes one reason I've never [TS]

01:33:06   seen that yeah I think I think the [TS]

01:33:07   nickel creek when I thought I think has [TS]

01:33:09   that band great great fan I know yeah if [TS]

01:33:13   you if you buy the one with the corn [TS]

01:33:15   song on the elephant the corn the album [TS]

01:33:17   that has that on it it's come to that [TS]

01:33:19   you know how they make like like USB [TS]

01:33:22   thumb drives out of all sorts of things [TS]

01:33:24   and they need to come up with a vinyl [TS]

01:33:27   album that is itself actually an SD card [TS]

01:33:30   like it's an SD card with a huge [TS]

01:33:32   circular grooved handle this is a record [TS]

01:33:35   but it really is a giant SD card yeah so [TS]

01:33:38   anyway yeah it's I again it's I know [TS]

01:33:42   it's ridiculous and it does not sound [TS]

01:33:46   better and it's a bit of a pain in the [TS]

01:33:48   ass but it is kind of fun I also I kind [TS]

01:33:49   of like having the giant album [TS]

01:33:52   art look what this is like the original [TS]

01:33:55   album art that's what you should be [TS]

01:33:57   buying you should just be buying record [TS]

01:33:58   sleeves and putting them on your walls [TS]

01:33:59   art don't listen to them look at them [TS]

01:34:02   that's actually not a bad idea okay look [TS]

01:34:05   at things I used to have I used to have [TS]

01:34:06   long boxes on my wall when the scene I [TS]

01:34:08   liked it as a replacement of like [TS]

01:34:10   because I was kind of disappointed that [TS]

01:34:12   album liked the album art went away it's [TS]

01:34:14   like well I got these long boxes so I [TS]

01:34:15   guess it's all I and then those why [TS]

01:34:17   don't wait to well I for one am happy [TS]

01:34:19   that that you've discovered that [TS]

01:34:21   sometimes I say things that are not [TS]

01:34:23   completely insane turns out I know it's [TS]

01:34:26   weird but it does happen [TS]

01:34:28   well you it wasn't sane when you said it [TS]

01:34:30   sounded better that was definitely [TS]

01:34:31   insane it does not sound well I'm [TS]

01:34:33   excited I applaud Tiff's purchase for [TS]

01:34:36   you I applaud you realizing that [TS]

01:34:39   something I've known for most of my life [TS]

01:34:43   and older people older than us have [TS]

01:34:45   known for their entire lives basically [TS]

01:34:47   that hey it's not so bad and you know [TS]

01:34:49   what in the grand scheme of things as a [TS]

01:34:50   man who likes wristwatches based out of [TS]

01:34:53   1812 I'm not entirely surprised that you [TS]

01:34:56   like an audio playback system that is [TS]

01:34:59   also based from out of 1812 so as time [TS]

01:35:02   goes on and as you get older so does [TS]

01:35:04   your techno do your technical [TS]

01:35:06   technological preferences and so this is [TS]

01:35:09   just the next step in the way you have a [TS]

01:35:11   beard now I mean you just need that [TS]

01:35:12   strand you in the beard I mean you're [TS]

01:35:15   you're really getting clear you need [TS]

01:35:16   flannel and skinny jeans and you'll be [TS]

01:35:18   full hipster yeah man I'm not actually [TS]

01:35:20   skinny though that's the problem does [TS]

01:35:22   that matter [TS]

01:35:22   I'm saying you're trying to recapture [TS]

01:35:24   your youth you're not actually in your [TS]

01:35:25   youth oh that is a good gift though it's [TS]

01:35:29   a press shift god damn it Sean [TS]

01:35:29   a press shift god damn it Sean [TS]

00:00:00   so we should probably catch everyone up [TS]

00:00:01   in case they weren't aware Aaron did in [TS]

00:00:05   fact have our baby early Thursday [TS]

00:00:08   morning so for those of you who may have [TS]

00:00:11   heard the last episode you may recall [TS]

00:00:13   that that was that was recorded Tuesday [TS]

00:00:16   night and I didn't really want to get [TS]

00:00:19   into it during the show but Aaron Aaron [TS]

00:00:22   was actually starting to have [TS]

00:00:23   contractions during the show like it was [TS]

00:00:25   shortly before the show that we looked [TS]

00:00:27   at each other and said oh yeah this is [TS]

00:00:29   probably yet so we we went into the OB [TS]

00:00:32   the following morning Wednesday morning [TS]

00:00:34   and the OB had said Oh she'll definitely [TS]

00:00:38   Aaron will definitely be done by evening [TS]

00:00:42   time and as we got closer and closer to [TS]

00:00:44   the evening time Oh it'll be definitely [TS]

00:00:46   done by midnight and as we got closer [TS]

00:00:48   and closer to midnight Oh it'll be [TS]

00:00:50   definitely done any second now and sure [TS]

00:00:52   enough that a little after 3:00 in the [TS]

00:00:54   morning Aaron blessed our family with a [TS]

00:00:57   little girl whose name is Mikayla [TS]

00:00:59   Charlotte and and we are overjoyed and [TS]

00:01:03   very tired exactly the normal response [TS]

00:01:07   for having a newborn oh and I started to [TS]

00:01:09   say earlier and then I got myself [TS]

00:01:11   sidetracked we did what appears to be [TS]

00:01:13   the inverse of the siracusa family [TS]

00:01:15   approach because our first child was or [TS]

00:01:17   at least my hazy memory of Declan was [TS]

00:01:21   reasonably easy in the grand scheme of [TS]

00:01:23   things like any child is a royal pain in [TS]

00:01:26   the tuchus but nonetheless Declan was [TS]

00:01:29   reasonably easy [TS]

00:01:31   whereas Mikayla is starting out anyway [TS]

00:01:35   considerably more challenging and it may [TS]

00:01:38   just be that my memory which is already [TS]

00:01:39   bad in general has just blocked the new [TS]

00:01:42   baby phase from my mind but hoo boy this [TS]

00:01:45   is something else and if I recall [TS]

00:01:47   correctly John you said that that your [TS]

00:01:49   son was what did you call him I was [TS]

00:01:51   asking Aaron necessarily like a scream a [TS]

00:01:52   pillar or something like that yeah [TS]

00:01:54   there's one of his many delightful names [TS]

00:01:57   he basically screamed for the first [TS]

00:01:58   several months of his life continuously [TS]

00:02:02   yet you somehow decided to have a second [TS]

00:02:05   child which you know like the only thing [TS]

00:02:08   that he kept this weed out was like what [TS]

00:02:11   if the next one is worse like is that [TS]

00:02:12   impossible could be worse like literal [TS]

00:02:16   fire coming from the baby I don't know [TS]

00:02:17   it could be yeah yeah Alex was was [TS]

00:02:22   inconsolable [TS]

00:02:23   nothing consoled him in any way you know [TS]

00:02:27   rocking walking burping feeding and he [TS]

00:02:30   refused to eat okay so you're worse off [TS]

00:02:33   than we are because the one the one [TS]

00:02:36   thing that we do have going for us is [TS]

00:02:38   that if Mikael is attached to Aaron [TS]

00:02:40   everyone is happy well except Aaron but [TS]

00:02:43   everyone is happy and I say except Aaron [TS]

00:02:45   only because as it turns out which I [TS]

00:02:47   didn't know until we had a kid [TS]

00:02:48   breastfeeding not fun not easy who knew [TS]

00:02:52   and so Aaron is you know extremely happy [TS]

00:02:55   to be able to do it don't get me wrong [TS]

00:02:57   but it is not an intensely pleasurable [TS]

00:03:00   experience for Aaron dev this like leech [TS]

00:03:03   latched on to her all the time I mean it [TS]

00:03:06   can be depending but like but yeah [TS]

00:03:08   there's definitely a learning curve that [TS]

00:03:10   most people don't think about and one of [TS]

00:03:11   the extra difficulties with Alex was [TS]

00:03:13   because it was our first we didn't have [TS]

00:03:14   like the experience to know that this is [TS]

00:03:17   a thing we could successfully do like [TS]

00:03:19   you know Aaron had a journal I was like [TS]

00:03:21   I'm capable of this like it's a pain and [TS]

00:03:23   it's annoying and lots of things can go [TS]

00:03:25   wrong and you know be a bother and be [TS]

00:03:28   painful and things you know whatever but [TS]

00:03:29   she can do it but Alex it was like look [TS]

00:03:31   or you know can can we accomplish this [TS]

00:03:34   well why does our child refuse to to [TS]

00:03:36   feed why is he just screaming at me like [TS]

00:03:39   surely this child is hungry but no it's [TS]

00:03:41   only hungry for screaming oh he's hungry [TS]

00:03:43   for more so it wasn't yet Michaela isn't [TS]

00:03:49   as bad as Alex in that regard this is a [TS]

00:03:52   lot of complaining which is truly an [TS]

00:03:54   utterly unfair you just hit me at a [TS]

00:03:56   tired moment the reality of the [TS]

00:03:57   situation is and I'm being serious is [TS]

00:04:00   that if I take a step back we have been [TS]

00:04:02   lucky enough through the miracle of [TS]

00:04:04   science did I say that with no hyperbole [TS]

00:04:06   intended we have been lucky enough [TS]

00:04:07   through the miracle science to have two [TS]

00:04:08   kids that that nature by itself wouldn't [TS]

00:04:12   let us have and that is really [TS]

00:04:13   tremendous and we're deeply deeply [TS]

00:04:15   deeply lucky for it [TS]

00:04:17   Aaron's labor was difficult every labor [TS]

00:04:20   is difficult I'm not saying hers is more [TS]

00:04:22   or less too [TS]

00:04:23   cult than any other regardless big [TS]

00:04:26   congratulations Casey you guys went [TS]

00:04:28   through a lot on both fronts with both [TS]

00:04:30   kids and we're really proud of you and [TS]

00:04:33   big congratulations it's all smooth [TS]

00:04:35   sailing for me so you have a newborn [TS]

00:04:41   everything is in chaos you haven't slept [TS]

00:04:43   at all [TS]

00:04:44   you got a self-employment gig set up yet [TS]

00:04:48   lining right up no I do not I have not [TS]

00:04:52   even thought about it although because [TS]

00:04:54   this is what I need to do with my time [TS]

00:04:56   I'm working on a Mac app what sort of [TS]

00:05:01   kind of I know it's the correct [TS]

00:05:03   reversing clock Pro yes that's it that's [TS]

00:05:05   exactly no I'm overcast you're like [TS]

00:05:08   overcast Rumaki and by the way I'm [TS]

00:05:10   billing you tomorrow um no I I yeah Adam [TS]

00:05:14   trying a short short version of the [TS]

00:05:15   story so I have a very esoteric and very [TS]

00:05:21   weird photo management workflow that [TS]

00:05:24   works for me I understand that it's [TS]

00:05:28   complete garbage to everyone else on the [TS]

00:05:31   planet but it works for me and the [TS]

00:05:34   problem with that workflow is it's based [TS]

00:05:36   on a bunch of Python that I basically [TS]

00:05:39   understand but can't really create [TS]

00:05:41   anymore like I can I'm not very good at [TS]

00:05:44   writing Python I've done a smattering in [TS]

00:05:45   my day but very very little and these [TS]

00:05:47   scripts came from dr. Drang I've tweaked [TS]

00:05:50   them ever so slightly in order to do [TS]

00:05:53   what I need but they're almost entirely [TS]

00:05:55   what drying had written so anyway so [TS]

00:05:58   Apple and their infinite wisdom has [TS]

00:06:00   decided to release new images new image [TS]

00:06:02   codecs or formats whatever you want to [TS]

00:06:05   call it with HEV C and a she I see hafe [TS]

00:06:07   whatever I don't even care whatever I'm [TS]

00:06:09   tired point is there's new things and [TS]

00:06:11   those have ruined my workflow and so [TS]

00:06:14   rather than trying to hack apart Drang [TS]

00:06:15   script which is great like I'm not [TS]

00:06:18   trying to say script is bad it's just [TS]

00:06:19   it's it's a KC problem I don't really [TS]

00:06:21   understand Python very well although I [TS]

00:06:24   do approve of using free using white [TS]

00:06:26   space as delimiters don't at me but [TS]

00:06:28   anyway the point is I've decided to [TS]

00:06:31   write a swift command line app in order [TS]

00:06:33   to do basically the same thing which is [TS]

00:06:35   to say look at a folder [TS]

00:06:36   full of images and videos figure out [TS]

00:06:39   what the date was that those images or [TS]

00:06:42   videos were taken which could be as [TS]

00:06:44   simple as the file creation date but [TS]

00:06:46   often times does not rename them to a [TS]

00:06:49   given format so in my case I prefer and [TS]

00:06:52   this is one of the few cases where I [TS]

00:06:53   like 8601 so my my preferred file format [TS]

00:06:57   or my preferred file naming is 2017 or [TS]

00:07:01   2018 - oh one - 17 space hour hour - [TS]

00:07:07   minute minute - second second that's [TS]

00:07:09   just the one I like if you don't like it [TS]

00:07:10   that's fine [TS]

00:07:11   this one is mine that's a reference Tron [TS]

00:07:14   anyway point is the the script that [TS]

00:07:17   Drang wrote does all of this for me but [TS]

00:07:20   I decided I don't I don't like the way I [TS]

00:07:23   hacked it up to work with live photos [TS]

00:07:24   and trying to figure out what's the [TS]

00:07:25   Associated movie with a particular image [TS]

00:07:28   and so I'm just rewriting it as a swift [TS]

00:07:31   command line app that'll do all this for [TS]

00:07:32   me and in the span of just today I think [TS]

00:07:35   I started it I feel like I'm about a [TS]

00:07:37   third of the way through which means I'm [TS]

00:07:38   actually about a tenth of the way [TS]

00:07:39   through but that's better than nothing [TS]

00:07:41   and that's exciting and I will probably [TS]

00:07:42   either never release this or at most [TS]

00:07:45   open source it so other people can laugh [TS]

00:07:47   at how hacky this is because I'm not [TS]

00:07:49   writing it for a job I'm writing it for [TS]

00:07:51   me and hashtag Yolo but that's what I've [TS]

00:07:53   been doing on and off when I've had a [TS]

00:07:55   moment to breathe when I've not been [TS]

00:07:56   entertaining Declan or keeping the [TS]

00:07:58   screaming pillar from screaming I'll try [TS]

00:08:00   to steal my screaming pill you gotta [TS]

00:08:01   come up with a new name [TS]

00:08:02   you had your peak you had your free [TS]

00:08:03   birth name with sprig and sprout you [TS]

00:08:04   gotta have a post birth name yeah yeah I [TS]

00:08:06   thought Mikayla was getting names not [TS]

00:08:09   anyway [TS]

00:08:10   what so what else didn't follow up what [TS]

00:08:11   we got here so there's another black [TS]

00:08:13   desktop Mac I hear yeah this is one I [TS]

00:08:16   did not know about why because it's [TS]

00:08:18   Europe only so many things are Europe [TS]

00:08:21   only I like this model of Mac this is [TS]

00:08:24   like the I don't know what you would [TS]

00:08:26   have called this case it's the sort of [TS]

00:08:28   iMac looking all-in-one but the [TS]

00:08:30   nice-looking one they made a lot of [TS]

00:08:31   Mac's in this particular form back here [TS]

00:08:33   but apparently one of them came in black [TS]

00:08:34   in Europe so more cool stuff again I was [TS]

00:08:37   also trying to find I look for the link [TS]

00:08:39   for the second thing there was a story [TS]

00:08:41   that went around a while ago about [TS]

00:08:44   how Europe or some European countries or [TS]

00:08:48   some sort of international standards [TS]

00:08:49   body had some requirement about the [TS]

00:08:51   specific color of computers I think the [TS]

00:08:53   story was like here's why all computers [TS]

00:08:55   used to be beige it's because of this [TS]

00:08:57   like ISOs yeah yeah yeah and I couldn't [TS]

00:09:00   for the life of me find the link so if [TS]

00:09:02   anyone knows it's an adjustment put in [TS]

00:09:04   the show notes but anyway the important [TS]

00:09:05   part of that story other than [TS]

00:09:06   necessarily you know sensational [TS]

00:09:08   headline was that to comply with this [TS]

00:09:11   apparently Apple had to create a bunch [TS]

00:09:13   of power books whose keyboards were [TS]

00:09:15   greyish and it looked just awful because [TS]

00:09:17   power books were all kind of like dark [TS]

00:09:19   grey or black and they had keyboards [TS]

00:09:21   that either matched or complemented that [TS]

00:09:22   except for this they would make them fur [TS]

00:09:25   I think was just Germany but maybe it [TS]

00:09:26   was other European countries they'd make [TS]

00:09:27   a nice sleek black power book and put it [TS]

00:09:29   like a light grey keyboard and it was [TS]

00:09:31   gross so kudos for Europe for having [TS]

00:09:34   this black power mike 5500 and whatever [TS]

00:09:38   the opposite of kudos is for making [TS]

00:09:41   Apple make their computers ugly for you [TS]

00:09:43   cheers and cheers John cheers and jeers [TS]

00:09:45   yeah what's the opposite of kudos though [TS]

00:09:47   cheers and jeers works kudos and dukey's [TS]

00:09:52   all right moving on so tell me about the [TS]

00:09:55   Peak elk about screen and how it is as [TS]

00:09:57   quoting and I am now quoting from the [TS]

00:09:59   show notes the refere of fans yeah so [TS]

00:10:02   Marcos my ti Mac Pro was recently [TS]

00:10:05   purchased by James Thomson creator of [TS]

00:10:07   peacock the an iMac Pro configured like [TS]

00:10:09   mine not like my actual one I didn't [TS]

00:10:11   sell mine to him yes yes and peacock has [TS]

00:10:15   been around for many many years it's a [TS]

00:10:16   calculator application and it was able [TS]

00:10:18   to run his fans at full blast [TS]

00:10:21   how can a calculator run my Mac both [TS]

00:10:23   pros fans at full blast well if you [TS]

00:10:26   haven't been keeping up with P calc and [TS]

00:10:28   you really shouldn't be there is an [TS]

00:10:31   interesting feature hidden in the about [TS]

00:10:33   screen that starts to make more sense [TS]

00:10:36   when you understand that it's wrecking [TS]

00:10:37   the fans so I don't want to spoil it for [TS]

00:10:40   you but it does other things as they say [TS]

00:10:43   on Seinfeld [TS]

00:10:44   we were sponsored this week by hello [TS]

00:10:47   buckwheat pillows go to hollow pillow [TS]

00:10:49   comm slash ATP to learn more and sleep [TS]

00:10:52   on one for 60 nights risk free have you [TS]

00:10:54   ever tried a buckwheat pillow they are [TS]

00:10:56   totally different than the [TS]

00:10:58   regular like fluffy soft pillows that [TS]

00:11:00   most of us are used to it's kind of like [TS]

00:11:02   a beanbag in like texture and [TS]

00:11:04   consistency and it's filled with [TS]

00:11:05   buckwheat holes so it doesn't like [TS]

00:11:09   spring back the way a foam pillow does [TS]

00:11:11   and it doesn't make your face all hot [TS]

00:11:13   and sweaty all night it's filled with [TS]

00:11:15   these lightweight buckwheat holes so it [TS]

00:11:17   really does kind of move and you can set [TS]

00:11:20   it like a bean bag you can kind of like [TS]

00:11:21   push it up to give yourself a lot of [TS]

00:11:23   support in one area or you can flatten [TS]

00:11:25   it out to give your you can change [TS]

00:11:27   throughout the night and it's really you [TS]

00:11:29   can totally adjust how you see fit [TS]

00:11:31   because it is really just this nice [TS]

00:11:33   wonderful organic cotton case made right [TS]

00:11:36   here in the USA [TS]

00:11:37   filled with buckwheat holes that were [TS]

00:11:39   also made and grown and milled right [TS]

00:11:41   here in the USA so it's a nice high [TS]

00:11:43   quality materials but in the end of the [TS]

00:11:45   day it's kind of just a big bean bag and [TS]

00:11:46   so this is really flexible for whatever [TS]

00:11:49   however you want to support your head [TS]

00:11:50   and neck and this is really ends up [TS]

00:11:52   being a lot better than traditional [TS]

00:11:53   pillows in a lot of times and for a lot [TS]

00:11:56   of people you know they find these they [TS]

00:11:58   find these way more comfortable and a [TS]

00:12:00   lot of times especially if you're a hot [TS]

00:12:01   sleeper or if you could if you tend to [TS]

00:12:03   fold your pillow in half or stack two [TS]

00:12:05   pillows try to get enough support give [TS]

00:12:07   hollow pillows a try you know these are [TS]

00:12:08   not some kind of new totally crazy thing [TS]

00:12:11   they've been used in Japan for centuries [TS]

00:12:13   they remain very popular to this day you [TS]

00:12:16   might even also see them on the pillow [TS]

00:12:17   menu of fancy hotels buckwheat is really [TS]

00:12:20   a nice natural way to sleep so hullo [TS]

00:12:23   check it out today you can try it for 60 [TS]

00:12:25   nights if it isn't for you after 60 [TS]

00:12:27   nights they send it back they give you a [TS]

00:12:29   full refund [TS]

00:12:30   go to hollow pillow comm slash ATP to [TS]

00:12:33   see for yourself if you get more than [TS]

00:12:35   one you can get a discount of twenty [TS]

00:12:36   dollars per pillow depending on the size [TS]

00:12:38   and you get fast free shipping on every [TS]

00:12:40   order once again go to hollow pillow [TS]

00:12:42   comm slash ATP and try a wonderful [TS]

00:12:45   buckwheat pillow for 69 - risk-free [TS]

00:12:47   thank you so much to holo for sponsoring [TS]

00:12:48   our show so this is an older story about [TS]

00:12:54   people announcing arms windows pcs is [TS]

00:12:57   kind of Microsoft's second run at [TS]

00:13:00   selling you hard arm hardware that runs [TS]

00:13:03   Windows remember was at Windows RT was [TS]

00:13:05   the first one they were gonna sell like [TS]

00:13:07   x86 versions of I think it was their [TS]

00:13:09   surface stuff or whatever and also arm [TS]

00:13:10   versions with [TS]

00:13:11   special version of Windows that runs on [TS]

00:13:12   it they did they actually did it yeah no [TS]

00:13:15   one bought them but they did it and it [TS]

00:13:16   was it just wasn't that popular a lot of [TS]

00:13:19   people speculated because it's like well [TS]

00:13:20   it's all well and good and it runs [TS]

00:13:21   Windows and it has some advantages but [TS]

00:13:23   it was a while ago arm pcs weren't as [TS]

00:13:26   powerful as they are now and the main [TS]

00:13:29   thing is like well I can't run office or [TS]

00:13:31   office I think they ported office but [TS]

00:13:34   like all the software that runs on [TS]

00:13:35   Windows unless the developers recompile [TS]

00:13:39   for arm I can't run it so their second [TS]

00:13:41   run at this is cleaner without a special [TS]

00:13:43   you know without it being like Windows [TS]

00:13:46   you know suffix type thing is just [TS]

00:13:48   Windows 10 for arm they have an emulator [TS]

00:13:53   that will run x86 software so everyone [TS]

00:13:55   doesn't have to part like they're doing [TS]

00:13:56   a better job of like you know supporting [TS]

00:13:58   a second architectures still remains to [TS]

00:14:00   be seen whether it will succeed for them [TS]

00:14:03   because I really think well you know I [TS]

00:14:04   don't know the only examples I have that [TS]

00:14:07   I'm knowledgeable about are the many [TS]

00:14:08   transitions Apple has made to different [TS]

00:14:10   CPU architectures and in all cases Apple [TS]

00:14:13   has made a transition from one thing to [TS]

00:14:16   another it has not tried to sustain an [TS]

00:14:19   ongoing basis two things at the same [TS]

00:14:21   time so I'm not sure what when Microsoft [TS]

00:14:24   7-game hears but anyway I'm not not [TS]

00:14:25   really interested in Microsoft's ongoing [TS]

00:14:27   strategy to find ways to sell people [TS]

00:14:30   more copies of Windows and making [TS]

00:14:32   interesting Hardware mostly interested [TS]

00:14:35   in this because of the consumer [TS]

00:14:38   experience that is offered by these [TS]

00:14:40   various arm pcs these are all laptops [TS]

00:14:43   obviously or portable things and a lot [TS]

00:14:48   of these products offer to the customer [TS]

00:14:51   statistics like 20 hours of battery life [TS]

00:14:54   and one one reviewer said that he has [TS]

00:14:58   been using it for five days without [TS]

00:15:00   charging the battery this was you know [TS]

00:15:02   an ARM based PC was testing and most of [TS]

00:15:06   these things come with LTE you know the [TS]

00:15:07   modern the slightly more modern than [TS]

00:15:09   December twistin as a CES happened [TS]

00:15:11   recently which Ivan Boesky do my best to [TS]

00:15:13   ignore plus or minus the new televisions [TS]

00:15:16   but apparently at CES people who were [TS]

00:15:19   there were saying you know you can't [TS]

00:15:22   throw a rock without hang a laptop that [TS]

00:15:23   has LTE so this combines [TS]

00:15:25   two new ways for our Marco to reiterate [TS]

00:15:27   old complaints about Apple laptops one I [TS]

00:15:31   realize doesn't seem to be that great [TS]

00:15:32   and two they don't have LTE and I have [TS]

00:15:35   to think this is kind of one of those if [TS]

00:15:36   you know again if Microsoft is [TS]

00:15:39   successful with these things like maybe [TS]

00:15:40   they find a way to sell them the [TS]

00:15:41   emulator works well enough to make [TS]

00:15:43   people consider them but like it's not [TS]

00:15:46   like they get a little bit more battery [TS]

00:15:47   life than like a MacBook adorable [TS]

00:15:49   because 20 hours is a little is enough [TS]

00:15:52   more than five or six hours that it's in [TS]

00:15:56   a different ballpark it changes how you [TS]

00:15:58   would use this thing if you could buy an [TS]

00:16:00   Apple laptop there was MacBook adorably [TS]

00:16:04   ish you know form factor with LTE they [TS]

00:16:08   got 20 hours of battery life people [TS]

00:16:10   would flip their lid right and so the [TS]

00:16:13   question is why can't we buy that the [TS]

00:16:14   LTE question we've talked about many [TS]

00:16:16   times in the past seems like that is [TS]

00:16:18   within Apple's grasps to do that but so [TS]

00:16:20   far they haven't and the arm thing we've [TS]

00:16:22   also talked about in the past but this [TS]

00:16:23   is another scenario kind of like the [TS]

00:16:25   Microsoft Surface studio and various [TS]

00:16:28   other things that Microsoft does where I [TS]

00:16:29   look at it and I think Microsoft is has [TS]

00:16:33   better Hardware ideas than Apple and [TS]

00:16:36   it's merely thwarted by the fact that [TS]

00:16:37   their platform is not as successful and [TS]

00:16:39   I have lots of other problems that are [TS]

00:16:40   you know so you could say well you know [TS]

00:16:41   you kept saying in Microsoft server [TS]

00:16:43   studio is such a big deal but it's not [TS]

00:16:44   really setting the world on fire yes [TS]

00:16:46   they have other problems like you don't [TS]

00:16:47   win just because you have interesting [TS]

00:16:48   hardware but it pains me to see [TS]

00:16:50   Microsoft being more innovative and it's [TS]

00:16:52   hardware when I think if Apple just did [TS]

00:16:54   those same things but also stayed good [TS]

00:16:56   at all the things that it's good at and [TS]

00:16:58   it's much more you know sort of popular [TS]

00:17:00   on the upswing platform I think we would [TS]

00:17:03   all all love products like that and I'm [TS]

00:17:05   not saying it's time for Apple to go to [TS]

00:17:07   arm or whatever I'm just saying the [TS]

00:17:08   longer Apple waits the more its laptops [TS]

00:17:11   seem like they are I don't know I'm not [TS]

00:17:15   gonna say like from another age but [TS]

00:17:17   going in a different direction than [TS]

00:17:19   everybody else I can't think of any [TS]

00:17:21   person who you know who is a current [TS]

00:17:23   MacBook adorable owner this is that the [TS]

00:17:25   12-inch MacBook with one little board on [TS]

00:17:27   the side of it also known as the MacBook [TS]

00:17:28   one and saying hey you like that and [TS]

00:17:31   everything but what if I gave you the [TS]

00:17:32   same thing and it had to run some of [TS]

00:17:35   your existing software and emulation but [TS]

00:17:36   you had 20 hours of battery life [TS]

00:17:38   LT I think a lot of people would be [TS]

00:17:40   willing to give that a try I know I [TS]

00:17:41   would [TS]

00:17:42   oh absolutely I was just thinking [TS]

00:17:44   earlier today that I love my my adorable [TS]

00:17:50   I freaking love this thing but I was [TS]

00:17:53   also thinking I would kill everyone I [TS]

00:17:54   knew for a second port but that's a [TS]

00:17:56   different issue [TS]

00:17:56   um I do love this thing no I really and [TS]

00:17:59   truly and honestly do it is not [TS]

00:18:02   exceptionally fast it is only one port [TS]

00:18:05   which is which is very frustrating from [TS]

00:18:07   time to time not always but from time to [TS]

00:18:08   time but I love this computer and if you [TS]

00:18:12   told me that I could get two times the [TS]

00:18:15   battery life not to say that I have a [TS]

00:18:17   problem with the battery life but if you [TS]

00:18:18   said hey charging once a day isn't even [TS]

00:18:22   necessary charge once a weekend and or [TS]

00:18:26   you said oh and by the way you can have [TS]

00:18:28   the internet anywhere [TS]

00:18:30   oh my word I would pay twice as much as [TS]

00:18:33   I paid for this thing I think I paid [TS]

00:18:34   like two or three thousand dollars for [TS]

00:18:35   this thing whatever it was it was not [TS]

00:18:37   insignificant given that it's the [TS]

00:18:40   tiniest laptop that Happel sells and I [TS]

00:18:43   would do anything just like John was [TS]

00:18:45   saying I would do anything to have that [TS]

00:18:46   this phantom this phantom laptop with [TS]

00:18:49   you know twice the battery life in LTE I [TS]

00:18:51   don't care if it has an arm or not [TS]

00:18:52   that's that to me is mostly irrelevant [TS]

00:18:54   like obviously it's an interesting [TS]

00:18:55   conversation for us three nerds but as a [TS]

00:18:57   consumer I don't care if it has an arm [TS]

00:18:59   or not I just want it to last forever [TS]

00:19:01   which it sort of does now and have LT [TS]

00:19:05   would be tremendous yes I understand you [TS]

00:19:07   can tether I get that but to me I'd [TS]

00:19:10   prefer to have it on board if I could so [TS]

00:19:12   the arm factor is you know yeah it's [TS]

00:19:16   like if you put X a six and I wouldn't [TS]

00:19:18   get twenty hours back like that's that [TS]

00:19:20   that's the contention of total arm right [TS]

00:19:22   and it starts to be ever more plausible [TS]

00:19:26   when you think about how like the iPhone [TS]

00:19:27   benchmarks against the adorable in [TS]

00:19:31   single and multi-threaded like the [TS]

00:19:32   modern iPhone and then you compare the [TS]

00:19:34   size of the battery in the iPhone ten to [TS]

00:19:36   the size of the battery in the adorable [TS]

00:19:38   I granted the adorable has a massive [TS]

00:19:39   screen on it like it's not apples to [TS]

00:19:40   apples it's not a hundred percent clear [TS]

00:19:42   to me that oh just magically replace the [TS]

00:19:44   CPU with arm you get twenty hours of [TS]

00:19:45   battery life but you know like aside [TS]

00:19:49   from consumer perspective they don't [TS]

00:19:50   know or care [TS]

00:19:52   what hardware is inside these except as [TS]

00:19:54   it might impact their software [TS]

00:19:57   compatibility experience that's where [TS]

00:19:58   the emulator comes in and maybe that [TS]

00:19:59   hurts the battery life but either way if [TS]

00:20:01   they treat this as a transition and go [TS]

00:20:04   all the way this is an experience that [TS]

00:20:06   Apple currently can't compete against is [TS]

00:20:08   very far from competing against and the [TS]

00:20:10   other angular we didn't get to hear is [TS]

00:20:12   the sort of a teacher angle where if you [TS]

00:20:14   were to go to the story that will link [TS]

00:20:15   in the show notes from our second again [TS]

00:20:17   look at these products you would say but [TS]

00:20:18   wait a second that's not a MacBook [TS]

00:20:19   adorable that's an iPad with the [TS]

00:20:21   keyboard that's like a Windows 10 [TS]

00:20:23   convertible bond remember Windows has [TS]

00:20:25   the one OS strategy that handles [TS]

00:20:27   touching blah blah blah and Apple [TS]

00:20:28   doesn't and that brings us into a second [TS]

00:20:30   conversation that I think I had probably [TS]

00:20:32   around December whenever I was an [TS]

00:20:34   upgrade with Jason's now talking about [TS]

00:20:36   iOS laptops and since then or maybe [TS]

00:20:39   before that I remember Jason is written [TS]

00:20:41   a couple of articles about it [TS]

00:20:43   the teachers talked about it forever and [TS]

00:20:44   it's come up again and so you know maybe [TS]

00:20:47   the answer isn't in adorable 20 hours of [TS]

00:20:49   battery life maybe the answer is an iOS [TS]

00:20:51   laptop which is another thing that [TS]

00:20:53   people are climbing for and as I said an [TS]

00:20:54   upgrade Apple should totally make one [TS]

00:20:56   because it is a known proven form factor [TS]

00:20:58   and some people really like iOS and I [TS]

00:21:01   can see you getting 20 hours of battery [TS]

00:21:02   life from an iOS laptop so if you're not [TS]

00:21:05   gonna do it with the actual adorable to [TS]

00:21:07   my case you happen do the iOS laptop [TS]

00:21:09   thing I think the iOS type of thing is [TS]

00:21:11   is a thing that they should do I don't [TS]

00:21:13   know how good end up being but I know a [TS]

00:21:15   lot of people who would buy them I would [TS]

00:21:17   probably buy one i I've had ever since [TS]

00:21:20   the 9.7 Pro came out I've used I have [TS]

00:21:25   dramatically increased my iPad usage [TS]

00:21:26   because I got it with the smart Keyboard [TS]

00:21:29   and the smart keyboard cover it [TS]

00:21:32   transforms an iPad for a lot of people [TS]

00:21:35   and I'm one of them and I'm I know Matt [TS]

00:21:37   the only woman it and it's pretty much [TS]

00:21:40   always in it I I never take it out of [TS]

00:21:42   that cover I do occasionally like if I'm [TS]

00:21:44   gonna be sitting on the couch for a [TS]

00:21:45   while I will occasionally fold the [TS]

00:21:48   keyboard behind it but I'm not even [TS]

00:21:50   detaching it it's I consider that [TS]

00:21:51   keyboard part of my iPad so if we had [TS]

00:21:54   basically what tablet PCs offered like [TS]

00:21:57   15 years ago [TS]

00:21:59   which was the convertible form factor [TS]

00:22:01   where it looked like a laptop except the [TS]

00:22:04   hinge you could rotate the screen [TS]

00:22:06   like all the way around and then flip it [TS]

00:22:08   back to fold it back on itself [TS]

00:22:10   you know PC makers still make laptops [TS]

00:22:12   like this like this is still a thing you [TS]

00:22:13   can get that some version of that as an [TS]

00:22:17   iPad that had a permanently attached [TS]

00:22:19   keyboard that was a really good keyboard [TS]

00:22:22   that and then the whole thing could be [TS]

00:22:24   shaped and weighted the way a laptop is [TS]

00:22:27   shaped and waited and had a lot of [TS]

00:22:28   benefits there that would be an amazing [TS]

00:22:31   device for a lot of people and this is [TS]

00:22:33   not to say that all iPads should become [TS]

00:22:35   laptops obviously that's not true [TS]

00:22:38   but what we've seen with the the like [TS]

00:22:42   stopping the fall of iPad sales and [TS]

00:22:44   starting to have some growth again in [TS]

00:22:47   the last you know few quarters I think [TS]

00:22:49   that's directly attributable to two big [TS]

00:22:52   changes in the iPad line number one that [TS]

00:22:55   awesome new cheap 329 iPad that's a big [TS]

00:22:58   thing and then number two the iPad pro [TS]

00:23:00   finally giving a lot of high-end and [TS]

00:23:04   business users what they've been begging [TS]

00:23:06   for for the iPad since day one and like [TS]

00:23:10   I made this tweet abettor that was kind [TS]

00:23:12   of you know quick on this point but it's [TS]

00:23:14   like the history of the iPad has has [TS]

00:23:16   been like you know Apple said Apple [TS]

00:23:18   tries something they say we don't we [TS]

00:23:20   don't need legacy thing X Y or Z and [TS]

00:23:22   then customers like I don't know III [TS]

00:23:24   think you do need that and apples not [TS]

00:23:26   trust us you don't need it and sometimes [TS]

00:23:28   they're right a lot and that's why I [TS]

00:23:29   think they they make that bet so often [TS]

00:23:31   and the and they're so stubborn on its [TS]

00:23:32   for so long most of the time because a [TS]

00:23:35   lot of times they are right about that [TS]

00:23:36   but sometimes they're not and like you [TS]

00:23:39   know if when you have like a pretty [TS]

00:23:41   decent sized portion of your customer [TS]

00:23:43   base like hacking keyboards onto iPads [TS]

00:23:46   in weird ways in these like you know [TS]

00:23:48   crappy like cases and brackets and [TS]

00:23:51   things eventually you're like okay well [TS]

00:23:53   let's actually just make the iPad do [TS]

00:23:55   this well and we will we will make the [TS]

00:23:58   iPad support a better the same way like [TS]

00:24:00   the iPad one didn't have any support in [TS]

00:24:04   the hardware for a case and that's where [TS]

00:24:07   the iPad one case was that horrible like [TS]

00:24:09   vinyl pocket thing that was a disaster [TS]

00:24:12   because the like there was no good way [TS]

00:24:15   to a tat to attach a case to an iPad [TS]

00:24:17   the ipad2 they realize oh everyone is [TS]

00:24:20   attaching cases to this so we'll build [TS]

00:24:22   in the magnets to have this you know [TS]

00:24:24   magnet connector on the side and that [TS]

00:24:25   that can support the case over time you [TS]

00:24:27   know these needs expand eventually we [TS]

00:24:29   get where we are with the iPad pro now [TS]

00:24:30   where we have the smart connector we [TS]

00:24:31   have a nice easy way to attach keyboards [TS]

00:24:34   that dealing with Bluetooth or batteries [TS]

00:24:35   or anything and an apple makes this nice [TS]

00:24:37   one it really hasn't panned out that [TS]

00:24:39   much in the in the sense that nobody [TS]

00:24:40   else really makes anything for the smart [TS]

00:24:42   connector but Apple does at least and so [TS]

00:24:44   I feel like going towards this like you [TS]

00:24:48   know clamshell iPad option or this [TS]

00:24:51   convertible iPad option as kind of a [TS]

00:24:53   half laptop that is a perfectly valid [TS]

00:24:56   place for the iPad line to go not all of [TS]

00:24:59   them but for that to be an option they [TS]

00:25:01   already sell it in like four different [TS]

00:25:02   sizes it would you know people are [TS]

00:25:03   always like will they only want to ever [TS]

00:25:05   make one and they they don't they want [TS]

00:25:06   to minimize SKUs like no that's not true [TS]

00:25:09   anymore like that's that's that's not [TS]

00:25:10   has not been true for a long time for [TS]

00:25:12   most Apple product lines they're fine [TS]

00:25:14   making additional models if it expands [TS]

00:25:16   the market and so I think this would [TS]

00:25:19   expand the market by enough to make it [TS]

00:25:21   work the additional cost of having it so [TS]

00:25:24   that aside for a minute let me just rant [TS]

00:25:26   about LTE for one more time this will be [TS]

00:25:28   quick there we don't have to think about [TS]

00:25:32   why Apple might or might not want to put [TS]

00:25:36   LTE in Mac laptops we don't have to this [TS]

00:25:40   does not have to be theoretical because [TS]

00:25:42   PC laptops have offered LTE built-in as [TS]

00:25:45   an option for over a decade it's not [TS]

00:25:49   theoretical at all if we can see why [TS]

00:25:52   people want we can see that people buy [TS]

00:25:54   it we can see the good and bad that [TS]

00:25:55   comes from it we can see how it can be [TS]

00:25:57   managed and sold all of this has been [TS]

00:26:00   shown by the PC world for over a decade [TS]

00:26:02   the only good reason they might have [TS]

00:26:06   some bad reasons but the only good [TS]

00:26:07   reason why I don't think Apple has LTE [TS]

00:26:11   in max is because Mac hardware has spent [TS]

00:26:16   so much of the last few years especially [TS]

00:26:18   but you know honestly a lot of the time [TS]

00:26:20   since iOS came out mac harbor has spent [TS]

00:26:22   so much of this time in neglect and in [TS]

00:26:26   seemingly the entire platform has seemed [TS]

00:26:28   to be in maintenance mode in a lot of [TS]

00:26:30   ways [TS]

00:26:31   and we see signs of this maybe not being [TS]

00:26:32   true anymore with things like the iMac [TS]

00:26:35   Pro where this is like you know this [TS]

00:26:37   awesome computer or lots of custom [TS]

00:26:39   engineering and everything so you know [TS]

00:26:41   maybe we're coming out of this time but [TS]

00:26:44   there is no question in my mind that [TS]

00:26:46   there is no good reason why we can't [TS]

00:26:50   have LTE as an option in MacBooks there [TS]

00:26:52   are only bad reasons and if Apple wanted [TS]

00:26:55   to make it happen if they cared to make [TS]

00:26:58   that happen in the Mac line if they [TS]

00:26:59   thought that was a thing that was worth [TS]

00:27:01   their time they could do it it would be [TS]

00:27:03   totally fine it Mac OS has had support [TS]

00:27:07   for distinguishing cellular connections [TS]

00:27:09   on network API requests since I think [TS]

00:27:12   mountain lion or something it's it's [TS]

00:27:14   been there for a while now so the [TS]

00:27:16   software support is there there are apps [TS]

00:27:19   like Trip mode if you really need to [TS]

00:27:20   watch it more than that but you know [TS]

00:27:22   these are all solved problems on the [TS]

00:27:25   software side the hardware side is okay [TS]

00:27:27   is it a cost issue charge more for it [TS]

00:27:30   it's a cost issue on the iPads too you [TS]

00:27:33   can get $1,000 iPad pro and then you can [TS]

00:27:36   add an LTE for LTE to it for like 150 [TS]

00:27:38   bucks like that's it okay whatever you [TS]

00:27:40   need to charge charge it okay like what [TS]

00:27:43   we will bear that as the market like [TS]

00:27:45   people want this yes you can tether as [TS]

00:27:48   you mentioned earlier Casey [TS]

00:27:49   but tethering sucks it's not always on [TS]

00:27:51   your phone isn't always with you you're [TS]

00:27:53   draining two batteries and instead of [TS]

00:27:54   one like that sucks [TS]

00:27:56   nobody wants that yes you have to have [TS]

00:27:58   another plan for the device [TS]

00:27:59   but these days we have plans for our [TS]

00:28:01   watches now for God's sake plans for [TS]

00:28:04   additional devices have become easier [TS]

00:28:06   and easier over time and cheaper and [TS]

00:28:08   cheaper over time there are so many [TS]

00:28:10   people who would buy a MacBook Pro or [TS]

00:28:12   MacBook whatever I don't care [TS]

00:28:14   buy some Apple laptop running Mac OS I [TS]

00:28:16   don't care what it's called they would [TS]

00:28:18   buy that with an LT option for an extra [TS]

00:28:21   I don't know 200 bucks and would gladly [TS]

00:28:24   pay an extra 20 to 40 dollars a month to [TS]

00:28:27   have that on a cellular plan this is not [TS]

00:28:30   theoretical the entire PC world has done [TS]

00:28:32   this for a decade we know this we see [TS]

00:28:34   this we know it can be done Apple for [TS]

00:28:38   God's sake it's way past time just do it [TS]

00:28:40   so in that category of things the Apple [TS]

00:28:43   you know sees other people do [TS]

00:28:45   we don't need to do that one very minor [TS]

00:28:47   one oh I don't know I don't think it's [TS]

00:28:49   that minor because I continue to be [TS]

00:28:51   annoyed by it despite the fact that I'm [TS]

00:28:52   not really in the market for this thing [TS]

00:28:54   take a look at the picture at the top of [TS]

00:28:56   that our technical article about the [TS]

00:28:58   Windows 10 pcs and you know so this is a [TS]

00:29:02   great example of a convertible iPad ish [TS]

00:29:05   type thing and it's got an OS on it that [TS]

00:29:07   runs through desktop apps but you can [TS]

00:29:09   also touch it and it's got a keyboard [TS]

00:29:10   and it's got a little kickstand this is [TS]

00:29:12   actually a less less laptop more smart [TS]

00:29:14   key there's a little loop where you can [TS]

00:29:15   store your pen look at that a it's got a [TS]

00:29:18   pen which is the earlier category of [TS]

00:29:20   things Apple didn't till I realized yeah [TS]

00:29:22   but B guess what it has a place for you [TS]

00:29:25   to put the pen that you're going to use [TS]

00:29:27   with your tablet E and there are a [TS]

00:29:30   million third-party ways to do that but [TS]

00:29:32   I'm not entirely sure what Apple expects [TS]

00:29:34   people to do like they expect people to [TS]

00:29:36   put it behind their ear like you know a [TS]

00:29:38   carpenter or something by the way the [TS]

00:29:40   third-party ways all suck I've tried [TS]

00:29:42   many of them they're all terrible right [TS]

00:29:44   I just saw one today of like another one [TS]

00:29:47   of these things likely they've like a [TS]

00:29:49   case with a big long stick that [TS]

00:29:50   magnetically attached to the smart cover [TS]

00:29:52   or whatever it's like you know it's [TS]

00:29:55   almost like we had it better in the palm [TS]

00:29:56   days where all this devices came with a [TS]

00:29:58   little slot where you put that tiny [TS]

00:29:59   little stinky plastics house help the [TS]

00:30:01   Newton had slots for you to slide a [TS]

00:30:03   stylus into that a collapsible one where [TS]

00:30:04   it went in sort of horizontally and then [TS]

00:30:06   in the message pad 110 it went in [TS]

00:30:09   vertically like if you're you know they [TS]

00:30:12   sell a stylus now a pretty good one and [TS]

00:30:14   people like it and the people who like [TS]

00:30:15   it want to use it with their iPad [TS]

00:30:17   because as far as I'm aware you can't [TS]

00:30:18   use that spouse anywhere else can you [TS]

00:30:20   like it doesn't work with anything [TS]

00:30:21   except for an iPad so the only reason [TS]

00:30:23   you own it is to use it with your iPad [TS]

00:30:24   and I guess you just carry the pencil on [TS]

00:30:28   one hand and the iPad and the other it's [TS]

00:30:30   just this seems like a huge oversight [TS]

00:30:33   and so my tiny tiny miniature wishlist [TS]

00:30:36   things that Apple should do obviously [TS]

00:30:38   LTE is bigger and you know iOS laptops [TS]

00:30:40   is bigger but like if we can't get [TS]

00:30:42   either one of those things Apple [TS]

00:30:44   give us an officially supported place to [TS]

00:30:47   put the Apple pencil so you can carry [TS]

00:30:50   both it and the iPad that it goes with [TS]

00:30:52   together in some way where there is a [TS]

00:30:54   reasonable chance that they won't [TS]

00:30:56   immediately detaching you loser [TS]

00:30:58   yeah there's also I mean I honestly I [TS]

00:31:01   think the pencil could use a lot more [TS]

00:31:02   consideration than that but maybe that's [TS]

00:31:04   for another show yeah but anyway the [TS]

00:31:06   Microsoft obviously has been on that [TS]

00:31:07   page for a long time is there sort of a [TS]

00:31:09   kitchen sink thing oh it's a laptop it's [TS]

00:31:10   a tablet it's you can draw on that you [TS]

00:31:12   can touch the screen it's got a stylus [TS]

00:31:14   you know it's got a he'll the surface [TS]

00:31:16   book thing had that whatever that little [TS]

00:31:18   cylinder thing that you stick on the [TS]

00:31:19   screen and turn and do all knob yeah [TS]

00:31:22   they're trying all sorts of stuff I'm [TS]

00:31:23   just saying like where we've crossed the [TS]

00:31:26   the stylus Rubicon here like we're all [TS]

00:31:28   we're all in stylus land we just need [TS]

00:31:32   some place to put it and I say I own one [TS]

00:31:34   of these and you know our mine is it is [TS]

00:31:36   on my nightstand next to my iPad and no [TS]

00:31:39   it doesn't roll off because it's vaguely [TS]

00:31:41   weighted and I have it on the inside set [TS]

00:31:42   of the outside but it just annoys me [TS]

00:31:44   like one of the reasons I never have my [TS]

00:31:46   sows with my iPad is I don't have a way [TS]

00:31:48   to attach it and all those third-party [TS]

00:31:50   ways always just seemed a little bit I [TS]

00:31:52   don't know inconvenient for me [TS]

00:31:54   especially since I'm not like a super [TS]

00:31:56   heavy stylus user but honestly if there [TS]

00:31:58   should be there should be an Apple [TS]

00:32:00   supportive way to do it please I just [TS]

00:32:02   want my macbook adorable with LTE yes I [TS]

00:32:05   would pay the extra fees for it if I [TS]

00:32:06   really thought it was useful much as a [TS]

00:32:09   watch you know I know is the adorable so [TS]

00:32:11   much bigger than the watch and the [TS]

00:32:13   watches are small money for a small [TS]

00:32:15   thing why should I pay for that it's [TS]

00:32:17   it's just it's sipping data [TS]

00:32:18   who buys batteries if that's why Mac [TS]

00:32:20   apps get more money because the screens [TS]

00:32:21   are bigger yeah right well I I feel like [TS]

00:32:25   we kind of got sidetracked though on the [TS]

00:32:27   idea of arm like us yeah I know right do [TS]

00:32:31   we think that this is realistic [TS]

00:32:32   I feel like we went through this like [TS]

00:32:34   six months ago or something like that [TS]

00:32:36   and I don't remember what conclusion we [TS]

00:32:38   came to it seems to me like if it wasn't [TS]

00:32:43   for the fact that there's so many third [TS]

00:32:44   parties that would need to get on board [TS]

00:32:46   this train this would have maybe already [TS]

00:32:48   happened at this point like it seems it [TS]

00:32:51   seems like Apple would want to control [TS]

00:32:53   the entire stack they're clear they're [TS]

00:32:55   clearly very good at making arm CPUs [TS]

00:32:57   there the arm CPUs they make are clearly [TS]

00:33:00   very power efficient like in so many [TS]

00:33:02   ways I'm slightly surprised they haven't [TS]

00:33:04   dip their toes into this water although [TS]

00:33:07   I agree with I think it was John that [TS]

00:33:09   said earlier that they don't typically [TS]

00:33:10   you know [TS]

00:33:11   straddle two platforms they will they [TS]

00:33:14   will just decide okay we're going from [TS]

00:33:15   PowerPC to Intel or we're going from [TS]

00:33:17   Intel to arm etc but I don't know I I [TS]

00:33:21   feel like this I feel like this is an [TS]

00:33:23   inevitability but remind me of this in [TS]

00:33:26   like 15 years when we're still on you [TS]

00:33:27   know Intel processors well they're [TS]

00:33:29   playing chicken with that inevitability [TS]

00:33:30   like so we all see it as an [TS]

00:33:32   inevitability but it's you know the game [TS]

00:33:34   of chicken is that inevitability of like [TS]

00:33:36   look they've got a dorm like they're so [TS]

00:33:37   good at doing armed cpus they're i'm [TS]

00:33:38   cpus are getting better and better like [TS]

00:33:40   isn't it only a matter of time the car [TS]

00:33:43   racing in the other direction at that [TS]

00:33:45   eventualities yeah but if they keep [TS]

00:33:48   holding on eventually the Mac will just [TS]

00:33:51   fade away on its own and we wanted to [TS]

00:33:52   deal with it because iOS always been [TS]

00:33:54   armed and so problem solved but it gets [TS]

00:33:56   back to the Mac investment thing and you [TS]

00:33:58   know in our past discussions like look [TS]

00:33:59   if you really want to go armed on the [TS]

00:34:01   Mac it's very difficult to support both [TS]

00:34:06   for a long time which means you're kind [TS]

00:34:08   of signing up to build like an 18 core [TS]

00:34:10   ARM processor to compete with Zeon's if [TS]

00:34:12   you're still gonna be in that market [TS]

00:34:13   which as of last year Apple has [TS]

00:34:15   decisively said yes we want to be in the [TS]

00:34:17   market Marco's sitting in front of one [TS]

00:34:19   right now so if you want to go arm on [TS]

00:34:21   the Mac oh no it's not just yes great so [TS]

00:34:24   we can take the phone CPU and throw it [TS]

00:34:25   in a laptop and we're like oh but we're [TS]

00:34:26   good to go there it's perfect fit what [TS]

00:34:28   do you put in the iMac Pro and then you [TS]

00:34:31   got the Thunderbolt issue it's like yeah [TS]

00:34:33   we could solve all these problems you [TS]

00:34:34   could totally do it if the Mac was a [TS]

00:34:35   growing platform and it was the future [TS]

00:34:37   of the company they would do that they [TS]

00:34:39   would make arm CPUs with 18 cores in [TS]

00:34:41   them they compete with Zeon's and they [TS]

00:34:42   would figure out the Thunderbolt thing [TS]

00:34:43   and they'd be fine but that's not where [TS]

00:34:45   the Mac is right now and so it's like do [TS]

00:34:47   we really want to put that much money [TS]

00:34:48   into a platform that we sell so little [TS]

00:34:50   of maybe if we just hold on long enough [TS]

00:34:52   we won't have to worry about this [TS]

00:34:53   problem then it will solve itself so [TS]

00:34:54   that is the game of chicken I see on the [TS]

00:34:56   arm CPUs like in the fantasy engineer [TS]

00:34:59   world it seems like a no-brainer that [TS]

00:35:01   Apple would do it because they're so [TS]

00:35:02   good at it and surely they do a great [TS]

00:35:04   job where they'd work out the tech [TS]

00:35:05   issues but in the reality where you have [TS]

00:35:08   to look at sales numbers and consider [TS]

00:35:10   how much you're investing in yada yada [TS]

00:35:11   yada [TS]

00:35:12   it does not look like a sure bet you [TS]

00:35:16   know clear clearly the right thing for [TS]

00:35:18   Apple to do so you know every year like [TS]

00:35:23   you smell the wind and me like this [TS]

00:35:25   this deer farm and I suppose that the [TS]

00:35:28   thing that could make it happen sooner [TS]

00:35:29   rather than later or not at all is Apple [TS]

00:35:31   could actually decide we're gonna do to [TS]

00:35:33   a to CBO strategy we're not going to [TS]

00:35:36   bother trying to compete with the Xeon [TS]

00:35:37   but all these you know next year's set [TS]

00:35:41   of arm assist amount of chips for [TS]

00:35:45   iPhones and iPads could cover such a [TS]

00:35:48   vast portion of their laptop line at [TS]

00:35:50   this point right in terms of CPU power [TS]

00:35:52   and and GPU power for that matter that [TS]

00:35:55   they could sell more than half of their [TS]

00:35:58   Mac's with arm CPUs without having to [TS]

00:36:00   basically build the new chips we have [TS]

00:36:03   building these anyway for the iPads and [TS]

00:36:05   the iPhones repurpose them do all the [TS]

00:36:08   work we have to do the u.s. voix arm on [TS]

00:36:10   the Mac and you know the Mac Pro and the [TS]

00:36:14   iMac Pro know a lot of the stuff you [TS]

00:36:15   know we're not going to put that much [TS]

00:36:17   money into arm two to build chips for [TS]

00:36:19   those so those will stay with x86 and [TS]

00:36:21   we'll just continue to ride this out [TS]

00:36:24   with two CPUs that but so far Apple has [TS]

00:36:26   never done that and I don't think that [TS]

00:36:28   strategy is a good idea I think the [TS]

00:36:29   strategy is commit and convert either go [TS]

00:36:32   go big or go home we are sponsored this [TS]

00:36:36   week by our X bar for 25% off your first [TS]

00:36:38   order visit our X bar comm ATP and use [TS]

00:36:41   code ATP at checkout our X bars are [TS]

00:36:44   there's awesome little protein bars that [TS]

00:36:46   you've been seeing everywhere and maybe [TS]

00:36:48   hearing about another podcast where they [TS]

00:36:49   say right on the label right on the [TS]

00:36:51   front it says what the ingredients are [TS]

00:36:53   and it's a really short list it'll say [TS]

00:36:55   something like three egg whites two [TS]

00:36:57   dates six almonds and no BS and that's [TS]

00:37:00   really honestly what it is and it turns [TS]

00:37:03   out these are great I've been I've been [TS]

00:37:04   eating these things since before they [TS]

00:37:05   became a sponsor I don't I'm not even [TS]

00:37:07   sure they know that I've been eating [TS]

00:37:08   them because they didn't they booked it [TS]

00:37:10   through through our agent so I don't [TS]

00:37:11   even know if they know that I like these [TS]

00:37:13   so much but they're great I I've been [TS]

00:37:15   eating them myself I love them as my [TS]

00:37:16   like mid-afternoon snack when I'm hungry [TS]

00:37:19   but it's not dinnertime yet I also use [TS]

00:37:21   them like on long car rides I brought [TS]

00:37:23   them on my last plane ride they're great [TS]

00:37:26   if you if you need to like you know toss [TS]

00:37:28   it in a backpack for like a bike ride or [TS]

00:37:30   a hike or you know involving it before [TS]

00:37:33   or after a workout and they're wonderful [TS]

00:37:35   and it really is what it says three egg [TS]

00:37:37   whites two days [TS]

00:37:38   six almonds no BS like there's no crazy [TS]

00:37:41   additives they have eleven delicious [TS]

00:37:43   flavor varieties all of them are gluten [TS]

00:37:46   free soy free and dairy free there is no [TS]

00:37:49   added sugar this is a big problem with [TS]

00:37:50   so many these little of these protein [TS]

00:37:52   bars they're just packed full of sugar [TS]

00:37:53   the only sweetness and this comes from [TS]

00:37:55   those two dates and that's not that much [TS]

00:37:57   sugar it's hardly any there's no [TS]

00:37:58   artificial colors artificial flavors [TS]

00:38:00   preservatives or fillers they use egg [TS]

00:38:02   whites for the protein dates to bind it [TS]

00:38:04   together nuts for texture it's wonderful [TS]

00:38:07   they come in 11 different flavors as I [TS]

00:38:08   said I honestly can't pick a favorite [TS]

00:38:10   whenever I'm buying them I just buy one [TS]

00:38:12   of everything they have a variety pack [TS]

00:38:13   you can try that because I just like [TS]

00:38:15   them all [TS]

00:38:16   they're great so check it out today at [TS]

00:38:17   our X bar comm slash ATP and use code [TS]

00:38:21   ATP at checkout to get 25% off your [TS]

00:38:24   first order that's a great deal our X [TS]

00:38:26   bar comm slash ATP code ATP for 25% of [TS]

00:38:30   your first order thank you so much to [TS]

00:38:32   our X bar for sponsoring our show Jon [TS]

00:38:37   tell me about Windows 10 sets this was [TS]

00:38:39   uh I've been keeping up with Windows 10 [TS]

00:38:42   I have not actually ever run Windows 10 [TS]

00:38:43   my windows stuff at work is Windows 8 or [TS]

00:38:47   earlier I still retreat to the comfort [TS]

00:38:49   of Windows 7 the relative comfort of [TS]

00:38:52   Windows 7 for someone who's not a [TS]

00:38:53   Windows user obviously although I bet [TS]

00:38:55   Windows users are comfortable in Windows [TS]

00:38:56   7 to like yeah that was last one that [TS]

00:38:58   still seemed vaguely like Windows but [TS]

00:38:59   when those eight screwed it all up [TS]

00:39:00   some people like Windows 10 but anyway [TS]

00:39:02   windows 10 sets I'm assuming this is [TS]

00:39:05   official an official shipping feature [TS]

00:39:07   but I can't really tell because it's [TS]

00:39:08   just a YouTube video for all I know it's [TS]

00:39:09   just a speculative thing but you know my [TS]

00:39:12   love of window arranging and so to see [TS]

00:39:14   any OS vendor coming up with new [TS]

00:39:17   strategies for dealing with Windows is [TS]

00:39:19   interesting to me now obviously the [TS]

00:39:20   windows the windows windowing model is [TS]

00:39:22   so different from the Mac and I like the [TS]

00:39:24   Mac windowing model better but given the [TS]

00:39:27   windows windowing model where everything [TS]

00:39:30   it's his own damn window and it's it's [TS]

00:39:32   own little taskbar item and its own [TS]

00:39:35   independent entity and potentially also [TS]

00:39:37   its own duplicate running instance of an [TS]

00:39:39   application like is everything flies in [TS]

00:39:41   the face of the Mac model but given that [TS]

00:39:42   model on Windows where you got a lot of [TS]

00:39:44   windows floating around many of which [TS]

00:39:46   are actually independent instances of [TS]

00:39:47   programs it's difficult to figure out [TS]

00:39:50   how [TS]

00:39:52   to come up with a sort of a system or to [TS]

00:39:54   create any sort of hierarchy like on the [TS]

00:39:56   Mac because you basically can't have you [TS]

00:39:59   know you know technically you can but [TS]

00:40:02   from a user's perspective you can only [TS]

00:40:05   have one instances of an application [TS]

00:40:06   running at once right so if you start [TS]

00:40:07   Safari and it shows up in your dock what [TS]

00:40:10   if I want to run a second instance of [TS]

00:40:11   authority [TS]

00:40:12   well you can't now obviously if you know [TS]

00:40:14   what you're doing you can make that [TS]

00:40:15   happen the regular users if they [TS]

00:40:18   double-click Safari again in the finder [TS]

00:40:19   it doesn't launch a second Safari on [TS]

00:40:21   your dock if you click it again on your [TS]

00:40:22   dock it doesn't launch a second Safari [TS]

00:40:24   you've got so far and within Safari you [TS]

00:40:26   have multiple Safari windows and then [TS]

00:40:28   within windows you have multiple tabs [TS]

00:40:29   that hierarchy on the Mac application is [TS]

00:40:32   one level and then drill down one level [TS]

00:40:34   each application can have zero or more [TS]

00:40:36   windows that's the one fundamental [TS]

00:40:39   aspect of Windows is not like that so if [TS]

00:40:43   you don't have that hierarchy I mean [TS]

00:40:45   Windows kind of had that hierarchy back [TS]

00:40:46   in the day maybe you two windows victims [TS]

00:40:49   can tell me about this do you remember [TS]

00:40:50   the windowing model I think I think the [TS]

00:40:53   visual studio did it at one point there [TS]

00:40:55   was a name for that I used to know where [TS]

00:40:56   you'd have a parent window a gnome di a [TS]

00:40:59   an all child windows were inside the [TS]

00:41:00   parent window called MDI multiple [TS]

00:41:02   document interface yeah that was a [TS]

00:41:04   terrible idea but anyway they're there [TS]

00:41:06   you know there is still that hierarchy [TS]

00:41:07   because you can launch one instance of [TS]

00:41:09   ie and have multiple tabs and many [TS]

00:41:10   applications you could launch one [TS]

00:41:11   instance of the application and open [TS]

00:41:12   multiple documents even though depending [TS]

00:41:14   on the taskbar [TS]

00:41:15   that's why Photoshop has always done and [TS]

00:41:17   did various ways yeah because that [TS]

00:41:19   started as a Mac app so this inherits so [TS]

00:41:21   you have some flexibility to do but in [TS]

00:41:22   general it's much more flat in Windows [TS]

00:41:24   so Windows 10 sets let's it's kind of [TS]

00:41:28   like when Apple added framework support [TS]

00:41:32   for tabbed windows on the Mac where it [TS]

00:41:34   was easy for a Mac application to say [TS]

00:41:36   we're gonna support tabs that look and [TS]

00:41:37   behave vaguely like Safari tabs so [TS]

00:41:39   previously you'd have my document based [TS]

00:41:42   application TextEdit you know you launch [TS]

00:41:44   TextEdit and you open a bunch of new [TS]

00:41:46   documents in each document is in a new [TS]

00:41:47   window and with the framework support [TS]

00:41:50   for tabbing it's like oh it's pretty [TS]

00:41:51   easy for text said to say now I support [TS]

00:41:53   tabs and you could take your to TextEdit [TS]

00:41:54   windows and merge them together [TS]

00:41:55   and now they're in one tab the window [TS]

00:41:57   that kind of looks like a safari window [TS]

00:41:59   a little Safari tab right they added [TS]

00:42:00   that a couple years ago well windows 10 [TS]

00:42:02   sets ads tab [TS]

00:42:05   sort of to the window manager so that an [TS]

00:42:07   OS level you can assemble Windows from [TS]

00:42:11   multiple different applications into one [TS]

00:42:13   tabbed mega window to make a set of [TS]

00:42:17   documents so you've got a web browser [TS]

00:42:18   window a text editor window your [TS]

00:42:21   graphics application window all are our [TS]

00:42:24   tabs within the same you know master [TS]

00:42:26   window so there's not like it's seven [TS]

00:42:29   PowerPoint documents [TS]

00:42:30   it's a PowerPoint document and ie [TS]

00:42:31   document like a Finder window whatever [TS]

00:42:34   that like all the windows you know that [TS]

00:42:35   a file system thing showing you know [TS]

00:42:38   your disk explorer X is it even called [TS]

00:42:41   that anymore who knows and that's their [TS]

00:42:44   that's their way of organization so [TS]

00:42:46   instead of just being a flat stew of [TS]

00:42:49   Windows which is one of the many reasons [TS]

00:42:50   that Windows you left a full screen [TS]

00:42:52   because like look there is no hierarchy [TS]

00:42:53   so just give each one no the entire [TS]

00:42:54   screen and I will just furiously alt-tab [TS]

00:42:56   between them and I'll feel efficient now [TS]

00:42:59   then you have the ability to make sets [TS]

00:43:02   of Windows based on whatever task you're [TS]

00:43:04   doing kind of like I've talked about [TS]

00:43:05   making sets of tabs in my web browser [TS]

00:43:07   this is my like I'm shopping for a new [TS]

00:43:09   you know screwdriver window and I have [TS]

00:43:12   like seven tabs of different sites [TS]

00:43:13   looking at screwdrivers right this could [TS]

00:43:16   be I'm working on a project here's all [TS]

00:43:17   the graphics from the project is my [TS]

00:43:19   research window here's you know a text [TS]

00:43:21   editor window here's a web preview of [TS]

00:43:24   what I'm doing put them all together [TS]

00:43:25   into one big set and then the cloud [TS]

00:43:27   twist is oh and also Microsoft will [TS]

00:43:29   cloud sync those sets so if you go over [TS]

00:43:31   to another Windows 10 computer and log [TS]

00:43:34   in is you you can recall that set and [TS]

00:43:36   say what was i working on bring up that [TS]

00:43:37   window set you know that from that thing [TS]

00:43:40   I was working on and all those windows [TS]

00:43:41   appear on your new computer all those [TS]

00:43:44   tabs or whatever so I think that's very [TS]

00:43:47   intriguing I would love both that [TS]

00:43:49   statefulness and the ability to sort of [TS]

00:43:51   mix and match windows in a task oriented [TS]

00:43:53   way it doesn't work really with the Mac [TS]

00:43:57   windowing model so I don't think Apple [TS]

00:43:59   should look at this in adopted wholesale [TS]

00:44:01   but I kind of excited by Windows itself [TS]

00:44:05   taking another look at something as [TS]

00:44:07   basic as window document and application [TS]

00:44:11   management and trying to come up with a [TS]

00:44:13   you know unlike I say it's novel because [TS]

00:44:15   I'm sure 57 X Windows managers [TS]

00:44:18   this exact same thing but I found [TS]

00:44:20   interesting and there are parts of it I [TS]

00:44:22   find attractive especially the cloud [TS]

00:44:23   singing statefulness of course all the [TS]

00:44:26   caveats apply does this require support [TS]

00:44:29   from application vendors will the only [TS]

00:44:30   person who supports to be Microsoft if [TS]

00:44:32   you take a bunch of kardi one in his [TS]

00:44:33   application and try to use it with this [TS]

00:44:34   will they not behave correctly [TS]

00:44:36   historically when Microsoft has had a [TS]

00:44:39   harder time getting all its developers [TS]

00:44:40   to adopt new technologies Apple has done [TS]

00:44:43   better they're a little bit spotty in [TS]

00:44:47   recent years especially with things like [TS]

00:44:48   autosave and state restoration and stuff [TS]

00:44:50   like that that kind of flew in the face [TS]

00:44:52   of Mac orthodoxy and was sort of only [TS]

00:44:55   half-heartedly implemented by some Mac [TS]

00:44:57   applications but in general I think [TS]

00:44:58   Apple has a better time in it so once [TS]

00:45:02   again I'm in the position where I am [TS]

00:45:04   forced to praise Microsoft and be proud [TS]

00:45:06   of what they're doing and wish Apple not [TS]

00:45:09   did the same things but innovated with a [TS]

00:45:13   similar spirit like when's the last time [TS]

00:45:15   a politico management in the Mac and had [TS]

00:45:18   some bold new ideas like they they added [TS]

00:45:20   like some vague slightly annoying [TS]

00:45:23   snapping thing in like Sierra and then [TS]

00:45:26   like the the you know the tiling thing [TS]

00:45:29   was that Sierra - they've added a couple [TS]

00:45:31   of minor features in half-hearted ways [TS]

00:45:33   and in recent years but nothing that [TS]

00:45:36   tries to not fundamentally rethink but [TS]

00:45:39   add a dramatically new feature akin to [TS]

00:45:41   like you know Mission Control or expose [TS]

00:45:44   or whatever like in the early days of [TS]

00:45:46   Mac OS 10 you know that's what they were [TS]

00:45:50   doing they were saying you know we have [TS]

00:45:51   a new idea of how you might want to [TS]

00:45:53   manage Windows and we call it expose and [TS]

00:45:54   later we'll rename it and make it even [TS]

00:45:56   more confusing and then spaces like this [TS]

00:45:58   is not a new idea but hey we think it's [TS]

00:45:59   maybe worth bringing to the Mac and [TS]

00:46:01   we'll refine it and try to make a [TS]

00:46:02   different model I that I miss those days [TS]

00:46:05   of windowing innovation yeah I mean this [TS]

00:46:08   is like it this is just one more area [TS]

00:46:10   where it feels like the Mac is in [TS]

00:46:12   maintenance mode at one of these times [TS]

00:46:15   one of these cool experiments by [TS]

00:46:17   somebody else is going to take off like [TS]

00:46:20   Microsoft is doing a lot of things [TS]

00:46:22   they're trying a lot of things and [TS]

00:46:23   they're they aren't all working but some [TS]

00:46:25   of them are and some of them will and [TS]

00:46:27   it's you know both in hardware and [TS]

00:46:29   software with with you know with what [TS]

00:46:31   trying over there and Apple is really [TS]

00:46:34   not trying that much in on this level [TS]

00:46:37   with the Mac the touch bar is probably [TS]

00:46:40   the only thing that was on anywhere near [TS]

00:46:42   this level that they tried and that was [TS]

00:46:44   more of a hardware I know the [TS]

00:46:46   implementation crosses everything but [TS]

00:46:48   like that was more of a hardware feature [TS]

00:46:49   than a software feature you know from [TS]

00:46:51   the user point of view and it wasn't [TS]

00:46:53   particularly well received and it's and [TS]

00:46:55   I think you know I think history will [TS]

00:46:57   judge it as a flop if the president [TS]

00:46:59   hasn't at least but that doesn't mean [TS]

00:47:02   they should not try anything else that [TS]

00:47:03   just means the one thing they tried that [TS]

00:47:06   was anywhere near this type of thing [TS]

00:47:07   didn't work out but they need to keep [TS]

00:47:09   trying because the PC industry is and [TS]

00:47:12   you know we forget sometimes like quite [TS]

00:47:15   how small percentage-wise the Mac has [TS]

00:47:20   compared to PCs in market share and you [TS]

00:47:24   know the Mac is much more influential [TS]

00:47:26   compared to its market share of size [TS]

00:47:27   than you would expect but if people are [TS]

00:47:30   like on their work pcs and they're using [TS]

00:47:32   all these things at work and they get [TS]

00:47:34   used to something like this this sets [TS]

00:47:37   feature then the Mac just looks bad by [TS]

00:47:40   comparison for not having it you know [TS]

00:47:42   and the more the more as time goes on [TS]

00:47:44   the more Microsoft tries things you know [TS]

00:47:47   some percentage of them will stick some [TS]

00:47:49   some of them already have like [TS]

00:47:50   touchscreen laptops like hidden we [TS]

00:47:52   helped made fun of that Apple makes fun [TS]

00:47:53   of that but the reality is people use [TS]

00:47:56   them and like them that's fine and Apple [TS]

00:47:58   doesn't do that and so when somebody who [TS]

00:48:00   is used to being able to scroll the [TS]

00:48:01   screen in the laptop occasionally with [TS]

00:48:02   their finger or poke a link with their [TS]

00:48:03   finger sometimes they go to a Mac and it [TS]

00:48:05   doesn't work and that doesn't make Apple [TS]

00:48:07   look like great product visionaries it [TS]

00:48:09   makes the Mac look broken or outdated [TS]

00:48:11   and over time the number of things that [TS]

00:48:14   caused that feeling in new buyers is [TS]

00:48:17   going to increase that's my concern with [TS]

00:48:20   the Macs dating is that it a polemic [TS]

00:48:23   kind of in maintenance mode for a lot of [TS]

00:48:25   its you know for a lot of the platform [TS]

00:48:27   and you might think oh well Apple is [TS]

00:48:28   fine they're selling you know iPhones [TS]

00:48:30   and iPads yeah that's fine but the rest [TS]

00:48:33   of the industry that the Mac competes [TS]

00:48:34   with is moving forward with or without [TS]

00:48:36   Apple they are moving and if Apple is [TS]

00:48:39   not even really putting in a strong [TS]

00:48:42   effort to compete with them [TS]

00:48:44   Mack isn't going to remain constant over [TS]

00:48:46   time it's going to decline over time [TS]

00:48:48   there it's going to start falling behind [TS]

00:48:50   in big ways and I don't want that to [TS]

00:48:53   happen to my favorite computing platform [TS]

00:48:55   of all time I'm just tired of being sad [TS]

00:48:57   man [TS]

00:48:58   it's hard being sad hi I'm happy with [TS]

00:49:00   this my my pro I'll tell you that but [TS]

00:49:02   nothing to do with the software yeah [TS]

00:49:04   like like the touch forest as Marco said [TS]

00:49:07   is a reason to be happy because look [TS]

00:49:08   that was a pretty big investment and a [TS]

00:49:10   you know a pretty important dramatic [TS]

00:49:11   clearly Mac only future doesn't seem to [TS]

00:49:14   have worked out whatever bless exactly [TS]

00:49:15   were asking for you know you got it you [TS]

00:49:17   gotta try things right but I would say [TS]

00:49:20   that the t2 in Marcos iMac Pro is [TS]

00:49:22   another example of granted mostly [TS]

00:49:24   hardware based but interesting [TS]

00:49:25   innovation that you know it is its [TS]

00:49:28   borrowing technology from iOS like it's [TS]

00:49:30   building on other that's just smart [TS]

00:49:32   business but they didn't have to do that [TS]

00:49:34   they could have made a more traditional [TS]

00:49:36   Xeon based PC and slapped it inside and [TS]

00:49:39   I'm a case but they didn't they're they [TS]

00:49:41   you know there's there's extra cost and [TS]

00:49:43   expense involved in adapting that iOS [TS]

00:49:45   hardware and software to the Mac and [TS]

00:49:48   they did it and that's that's an [TS]

00:49:50   exciting Avenue for innovation I think [TS]

00:49:53   to make Mac's less like you know less [TS]

00:49:57   like Apple branded hackintosh this and [TS]

00:49:59   more like you can't you can't assemble [TS]

00:50:01   this from parts you you know this has [TS]

00:50:03   advantages over a PC that you would [TS]

00:50:05   build in terms of you know performance [TS]

00:50:08   power draw security all the areas that [TS]

00:50:10   we expect Apple to innovate in which for [TS]

00:50:12   many years even in the max heyday you [TS]

00:50:14   know in the in the jobs you know PowerPC [TS]

00:50:16   g3 g4 our when max were very exciting [TS]

00:50:19   and we're you know the the bread and [TS]

00:50:21   butter of the company those max inside [TS]

00:50:24   were more conventionally like pcs than [TS]

00:50:26   Markos I Mac Pro is they didn't have [TS]

00:50:28   some weird custom ARM chip implementing [TS]

00:50:30   secure boot they were more or less on [TS]

00:50:32   the same you know was it uh EFI and [TS]

00:50:36   later the all of Intel's security [TS]

00:50:40   features like that but it wasn't like [TS]

00:50:42   Apple was building these giant custom [TS]

00:50:43   ships to do all of its like image [TS]

00:50:45   processing from the camera and to run [TS]

00:50:47   the SSD and to do a secure boot and [TS]

00:50:49   stuff like that that I think is [TS]

00:50:51   innovation it's not software innovation [TS]

00:50:52   but it is innovation and investment in [TS]

00:50:55   Maxo I'm heartened by the renewed [TS]

00:50:57   interest and yeah we all would have [TS]

00:50:59   liked the touch bar to maybe be more to [TS]

00:51:01   our tastes you know maybe some people [TS]

00:51:02   like but for the three of us it hasn't [TS]

00:51:04   really set the world on fire so I guess [TS]

00:51:08   I guess more of that more of that please [TS]

00:51:11   and you know with a higher batting [TS]

00:51:13   average well and I'm you know it seems [TS]

00:51:16   like there's obviously a lot of [TS]

00:51:17   different areas in which Apple is [TS]

00:51:19   innovating or not innovating or moving [TS]

00:51:21   forward or just in maintenance mode my [TS]

00:51:24   main complaint about stagnation is in [TS]

00:51:27   frequency of hardware updates number one [TS]

00:51:29   and number two did the most bigger [TS]

00:51:31   problem I think is the software platform [TS]

00:51:33   you know it's it's very I think there's [TS]

00:51:35   John I think there's a lot of parallels [TS]

00:51:37   to be made to your you know Copeland [TS]

00:51:39   2010 yeah to that article like you know [TS]

00:51:44   the arguments you made back forever ago [TS]

00:51:45   which is like you know at some point [TS]

00:51:47   forgive me for trying to paraphrase your [TS]

00:51:49   argument it's at some point you know [TS]

00:51:51   they can't continue doing this forever [TS]

00:51:53   like something has to change they have [TS]

00:51:54   to there has to be a next generation [TS]

00:51:55   version of this at some point and I [TS]

00:51:58   don't know we we don't know we don't [TS]

00:51:59   have enough insight into Apple to know [TS]

00:52:00   like is there a next generation version [TS]

00:52:03   of Mac OS that they're working on [TS]

00:52:05   because you know we don't see any signs [TS]

00:52:08   of that and obviously we probably [TS]

00:52:09   wouldn't until it was much further along [TS]

00:52:11   and almost ready to ship but like if [TS]

00:52:13   there isn't that's a big problem that's [TS]

00:52:16   a really big problem because what the up [TS]

00:52:18   the OS we're using right now on the Mac [TS]

00:52:20   is you know it's it's fine in a lot of [TS]

00:52:23   ways it's world-class in a lot of ways [TS]

00:52:25   but it's really ancient and creaky and [TS]

00:52:28   has a lot of baggage and does a lot of [TS]

00:52:30   things in really outdated ways that is [TS]

00:52:32   catching up to it it you know it has [TS]

00:52:34   been catching up to it for quite some [TS]

00:52:35   time it's going to keep catching up to [TS]

00:52:37   it more and more and for Apple to move [TS]

00:52:40   the Mac forward they need to be [TS]

00:52:42   investing heavily in it they need to be [TS]

00:52:44   giving it its next generation operating [TS]

00:52:47   system an x generation platform and so [TS]

00:52:49   things like the touch bar and the t2 are [TS]

00:52:51   awesome on the hardware side the iMac [TS]

00:52:54   Pro is amazing I continue to be [TS]

00:52:56   incredibly happy with it as a computer [TS]

00:52:58   but Mac OS is starving for attention [TS]

00:53:02   it is stagnating it is falling apart it [TS]

00:53:05   is starving hi Sierra is [TS]

00:53:08   many ways pathetic and scary in in how [TS]

00:53:12   sloppy things were done with it how many [TS]

00:53:15   bugs there still are in a lot of areas [TS]

00:53:17   the security bugs are embarrassing I [TS]

00:53:19   mean it's it's getting worse every [TS]

00:53:22   release seems like it's getting worse [TS]

00:53:23   Sierra was a terrible release also very [TS]

00:53:25   unreliable lots of bugs lots of problems [TS]

00:53:28   lots of subsystems and things that were [TS]

00:53:30   seemingly rewritten for vague reasons [TS]

00:53:32   and then we're worse and more buggy like [TS]

00:53:34   this is increasing over time because [TS]

00:53:37   they're not putting the resources into [TS]

00:53:39   the OS that it needs to be stable and [TS]

00:53:43   secure and to be moved forward that's my [TS]

00:53:45   concern area it's not about the t2 in [TS]

00:53:48   the touch bar it's that Mac OS itself is [TS]

00:53:50   not being properly maintained and [TS]

00:53:52   invested in and hopefully I'm wrong [TS]

00:53:55   hopefully I'm totally wrong and they're [TS]

00:53:57   working on our awesome new next [TS]

00:53:59   generation you know OS 11 or whatever [TS]

00:54:00   would be called it with me not that but [TS]

00:54:02   you know hopefully I'm wrong about all [TS]

00:54:03   this but we haven't seen no signs in [TS]

00:54:06   that direction so we have no way to know [TS]

00:54:08   if there's a next gen operating system I [TS]

00:54:11   don't think it would be an extra in Mac [TS]

00:54:12   or everything system it would be a next [TS]

00:54:14   gen operating apple operating system [TS]

00:54:16   that would span the range right because [TS]

00:54:18   like what you're really talking about [TS]

00:54:19   for an external operating systems and [TS]

00:54:20   honestly I don't think Apple is at the [TS]

00:54:22   k√∂ppen 2010 point just because like in [TS]

00:54:26   the if you look at the the rate of [TS]

00:54:28   important advancement in computing lots [TS]

00:54:31   of really important sort of industry [TS]

00:54:35   changing paradigm shifting stuff [TS]

00:54:38   happened really early on in that [TS]

00:54:40   beginning part going from very simple [TS]

00:54:42   computers to more complicated ones and [TS]

00:54:45   it just so happens that Apple's success [TS]

00:54:47   with the Apple 2 in the Mac happened to [TS]

00:54:49   hit right before all of the personal [TS]

00:54:53   computers got on the memory protection [TS]

00:54:55   and pre-emptive multitasking bandwagon [TS]

00:54:56   so it was unfortunate timing that they [TS]

00:54:58   were successful with a slightly older [TS]

00:55:00   platform but there's there's nothing out [TS]

00:55:02   there as clear-cut as like memory [TS]

00:55:04   protection either have it or you don't [TS]

00:55:06   and it's a pretty big innovation and if [TS]

00:55:09   you are unfortunate enough to be [TS]

00:55:10   massively successful with the platform [TS]

00:55:11   that doesn't have it it's very hard to [TS]

00:55:13   edit after the fact everyone else has it [TS]

00:55:15   and it's not a minor thing now but don't [TS]

00:55:18   worry there's no room for an extra [TS]

00:55:18   hopper existing but I think Apple can [TS]

00:55:20   get along with [TS]

00:55:22   you know Mach BSD amalgam as they've [TS]

00:55:26   shown they can bring that down to [TS]

00:55:27   watches and all the way up to max so [TS]

00:55:30   it's fairly flexible and it's pretty [TS]

00:55:32   neat and they can piecemeal replace [TS]

00:55:33   parts of it and improve it so it's still [TS]

00:55:35   got life like that left in it but [TS]

00:55:36   eventually you want a next generation [TS]

00:55:39   operating system that next generation [TS]

00:55:40   operating system is not next generation [TS]

00:55:42   iOS and not a next generation Mac [TS]

00:55:43   operation the next generation Apple [TS]

00:55:45   operating system that will probably have [TS]

00:55:47   to run on their self-driving cars and [TS]

00:55:48   you're you know you're watching your [TS]

00:55:51   glasses and your whatever like that's [TS]

00:55:55   that's where they would go and I don't [TS]

00:55:57   think it's pressing for them to do that [TS]

00:55:59   now but they you know all their you know [TS]

00:56:02   the car projects and any other weird [TS]

00:56:05   things they've tried with glasses and [TS]

00:56:06   rings and whatever those are avenues to [TS]

00:56:10   experiment with different kernels [TS]

00:56:12   real-time operating systems things [TS]

00:56:15   optimized for neural nets which you know [TS]

00:56:17   arguably their experiment on the phone [TS]

00:56:19   with the whatever that what's the little [TS]

00:56:21   thing the name the branding name they [TS]

00:56:22   gave to the neural process or m/l know [TS]

00:56:29   some part of the chip that was dead [TS]

00:56:31   anything anyway I've heard lots of [TS]

00:56:36   rumors of experimentation with different [TS]

00:56:38   sort of kernels and you know sort of [TS]

00:56:41   core OS designs and also anything [TS]

00:56:46   they're doing with the car I've also [TS]

00:56:47   heard rumors that that stack was [TS]

00:56:50   potentially different from the bottom up [TS]

00:56:52   than a lot of the existing ones one of [TS]

00:56:54   those things go anywhere you know I [TS]

00:56:55   guess I don't think it's pressing but if [TS]

00:56:58   and when a next-generation Apple [TS]

00:57:00   operating platform comes along I fully [TS]

00:57:02   expect it to span the range of all their [TS]

00:57:04   products and to finally and decisively [TS]

00:57:06   the dichotomy between Mac and iOS which [TS]

00:57:11   is say I don't think it is it is [TS]

00:57:13   imminent or more much more likely to get [TS]

00:57:15   something sooner as we talked about in a [TS]

00:57:16   couple shows ago with the unified UI [TS]

00:57:18   framework right that is a much more [TS]

00:57:22   reasonable incremental step towards that [TS]

00:57:24   that goal and you know right now like it [TS]

00:57:27   could be argued that Apple currently has [TS]

00:57:29   a unified low-level or s across all [TS]

00:57:31   their products because under the covers [TS]

00:57:33   it's all mock BSD Darwin [TS]

00:57:35   however you want it like that's [TS]

00:57:36   underneath all of them it's not like the [TS]

00:57:37   watch as far as I'm aware is running a [TS]

00:57:40   dramatically different operating system [TS]

00:57:42   from the kernel all the way up then your [TS]

00:57:45   Mac is like so there is a common [TS]

00:57:47   foundational platform with various bits [TS]

00:57:49   stripped down on it and obviously [TS]

00:57:51   different architectures and different [TS]

00:57:52   optimizations and stuff like that it's [TS]

00:57:54   just that as you get up to the higher [TS]

00:57:55   layer this you know historical somewhat [TS]

00:58:00   artificial distinction appears oh this [TS]

00:58:02   is a Mac Apple that's an iPad app no [TS]

00:58:04   there they're totally different it [TS]

00:58:05   looked kind of the same you I know but [TS]

00:58:07   just their same core OS same grunt yeah [TS]

00:58:09   I know but they're not it's not the same [TS]

00:58:11   thing [TS]

00:58:11   so I think Apple can address that top [TS]

00:58:14   layer before they have to go all way [TS]

00:58:15   down to the bottom and start you know [TS]

00:58:17   and what was that google has a project [TS]

00:58:19   like that what was it called this is the [TS]

00:58:21   the show where I can't remember the [TS]

00:58:22   names of anything fuschia there we go I [TS]

00:58:26   pulled it out pulled it out before the [TS]

00:58:28   chat room huh [TS]

00:58:29   that there fuschia operating system sort [TS]

00:58:31   of like and out in the open let's try [TS]

00:58:33   this experiment with another potential [TS]

00:58:36   platform which is such an unappetizing [TS]

00:58:37   to do which is like so is confusion is [TS]

00:58:39   like wait so you're still doing Chrome [TS]

00:58:42   OS and what about Android and what the [TS]

00:58:44   hell is fuchsia and not an Apple move at [TS]

00:58:47   all but Apple should be doing things [TS]

00:58:48   exactly like that internally maybe they [TS]

00:58:51   are who knows I don't know it's just [TS]

00:58:54   weird cuz in the last 24 hours as I [TS]

00:58:57   mentioned previously I've I've been [TS]

00:59:01   reminded how much I freaking love this [TS]

00:59:04   MacBook adorable even the keyboard which [TS]

00:59:07   admittedly is not the most reliable [TS]

00:59:09   thing in the world but I do love the [TS]

00:59:11   feel of it something something [TS]

00:59:12   tremendous turns off by itself sometimes [TS]

00:59:14   but it's fine I won't make much it's [TS]

00:59:17   it's not a big deal no I love I love [TS]

00:59:19   this I love this little laptop and I [TS]

00:59:22   love this little laptops hardware design [TS]

00:59:26   but I tell you [TS]

00:59:28   Mac's the Apple software is not not [TS]

00:59:32   doing it for me and for a fleeting [TS]

00:59:33   moment earlier today actually it was [TS]

00:59:35   yesterday it's all a blur you guys [TS]

00:59:37   anyway for a fleeting moment sometime in [TS]

00:59:39   the last 48 hours I thought to myself [TS]

00:59:41   man I wonder if I should just try [TS]

00:59:42   Windows again no because well and I know [TS]

00:59:45   that that's the answer but but I'm [TS]

00:59:47   looking at and I think I tweeted about [TS]

00:59:48   this [TS]

00:59:49   but I was trying to pull pictures off my [TS]

00:59:52   iPhone an image capture which is you [TS]

00:59:56   know an on board an app that comes with [TS]

00:59:57   the operating system that is designed to [TS]

00:59:59   do specific [TS]