The Accidental Tech Podcast

01:00:00 ◼   ► Apple APIs for a long time that certain [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► points on one side are better than the [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► ports on the other side that's been true [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► for many laptops in Apple's history yeah [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► it's always kind of annoying but we [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► understand why it is the way it is and [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► we accept it I don't think it's a source [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► of ridicule all right I just feel like [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► all I can imagine is all of us going [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► haha those idiot PC P plate it's an Emmy [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► we have talked about that as an inherent [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► problem with using the same connector [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► for all these things I think the I still [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► think that the advantages are using the [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► same connection for all them outweigh [TS]

01:00:25 ◼   ► the disadvantages but you know as marker [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► just that your laptop has a port as a [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► whole that's exactly the same shape is [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► the ones at Marcos and yet it is not [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► capable of the things that Marcos Marcos [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► okay it's both the same cables fit into [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► both of them but if you plug in a thing [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► that expects Thunderbolt endears it [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► won't work and there's no indication for [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► that physically speaking I don't even [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► know if there's a little lightning bolt [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► thingy next to them anymore no so I mean [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► that's just that's just the nature [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► wouldn't be next to yours so I you know [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► I think the implicit assumption I'm also [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► thinking of my own feelings about [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► underlyings discussion is that I still I [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► still believe I'm still hoping I guess [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► that when Apple does you know make a [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► bigger vision as a laptop line that one [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► or more of the new laptops the [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► introduced will have more ports than the [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► thing that it's replacing and that's why [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► I keep getting to like what do you think [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► they'll add or whatever if if I'm wrong [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► about that and if they introduced a [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► whole new laptop line that's like the [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► next generation after like this current [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► crop of 2016 2017 like I've had time to [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► process the the feedback from the market [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► and you know someone and so forth and [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► none of them have any more ports I will [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► be extremely disappointed like I [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► realized in myself like I've just been [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► assuming basically since the Apple [TS]

01:01:39 ◼   ► roundtable about the Mac when they [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► talked about the Mac Pro from that point [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► on I you know I read into what they said [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► would imply hopes and dreams of saying [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► yeah I know you're talking about the Mac [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► Pro and the iMac Pro like I know that's [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► what this is really about and about a [TS]

01:01:52 ◼   ► rededication to the Mac but the few [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► sentences they said about the laptops I [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► latched on to really hard and said that [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► means eventually you know after you know [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► two year cycle whatever takes a long [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► time like not not immediately but [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► eventually when they do the next big [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► laptop revision one or more of them will [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► have more ports and I don't know what [TS]

01:02:09 ◼   ► I'm going to do if that turns out not to [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► be the case like my faith and [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► I'm already a laptop hater I guess but [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► my faith in Apple's laptops will be [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► fundamentally shaken because so far it's [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► still just like they made a wrong turn [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► and things were already in the pipeline [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► and they couldn't really do much about [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► the revision for 2017 all they did was [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► that the rubber gaskets and stuff and [TS]

01:02:28 ◼   ► it's like hopefully they know it's wrong [TS]

01:02:30 ◼   ► next time they do the big revision [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► that'll be the time to make more [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► different fundamental decisions but if [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► the next ones come along and they're [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► exactly the same set of just USBC only a [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► MacBook one is still the MacBook one the [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► the other one still just have two ports [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► and you know and there's no changes and [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► no max a4 no SD card no HDMI and nobody [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► gets any not even an additional USB C [TS]

01:02:51 ◼   ► port nothing I don't know I'm gonna be [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► super disappointed [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► I'll probably you know I probably can [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► stall myself by hugging my new Mac Pro [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► but but I you know but I don't know what [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► you have you did you guys like have you [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► internalized that as a thing you expect [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► and so now you're set up to be [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► disappointed by not being there or are [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► you still like pessimistic and you'll be [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► pleasantly surprised if they do anything [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► that I will be stunned if there's any [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► sort of and not really Maricopa but like [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► if they add any sort of ports to any of [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► these laptops I will be flabbergasted [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► I'm not saying it's it's unreasonable [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► but I do think it is a what did you say [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► like egg on the face sort of admission [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► that oh maybe we didn't get this exactly [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► right if they had a USB C or a [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► thunderbolt like it's not an admission [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► of anything is just they added a more [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► port even that will be something it'll [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► say look we realize us PC is great but [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► when you only get two of them one's [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► taken with power it really limits things [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► so now you got one more so you got three [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► yeah I mean and let's be realistic here [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► also like if you look at if you look at [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► the side one of these things and you [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► look at like the height of ports I think [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► it's very unlikely that we will see the [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► return of USB a or even MagSafe because [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► I don't think they fit I think they're [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► too tall I don't think they could [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► reasonably fit those it would have to be [TS]

01:04:03 ◼   ► a pneumatic safe yeah it had to be [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► MagSafe three yeah right because I don't [TS]

01:04:07 ◼   ► I can't see them doing that and I'm [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► honestly I'm totally okay with USB C [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► charging [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► I wish the charger was nicer I wish it [TS]

01:04:15 ◼   ► had things like the charging light and [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► some kind of version of MagSafe would be [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► nice but other than that actually like [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► USB C charge because you can get [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► third-party chargers that have like you [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► know like [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► like the wonderful anchor one that has [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► the built-in USB charging also like the [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► in you know it makes the charging [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► situation much more flexible and then [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► you couldn't you can travel a little bit [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► lighter and stuff like that so I like [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► that [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► but if you look at what can actually fit [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► in this new super thin case design not a [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► lot can USBC you know you can fit more [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► of them and maybe you know what Apple [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► maybe you could put them a little [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► further apart because they're really [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► close to each other and it makes it a [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► little bit annoying to use also the [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► headphone jack should move back to the [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► left side where it belongs because [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► there's a reason why headphones were [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► always on the left side of laptops [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► before it's because when you have a [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► headphone cable that only has a wire on [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► one side historically that has been [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► conventionally on the left ear cup so [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► your headphone cable goes down the left [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► of your cup down your left arm into the [TS]

01:05:19 ◼   ► left side port of the laptop when it's [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► on the right side you have to cross your [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► headphone cable over your laptop which [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► sucks so that's wrong anyway you can [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► wrap it around the back oh oh by the way [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► speaking of ports on different sides I [TS]

01:05:29 ◼   ► do that's another thing I appreciate [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► about USB power that you can connect the [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► power to decide so depending on like [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► where you are on the couch or wherever [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► if you're in someplace that you can do [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► it like that's why I think they should [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► always keep that and I really don't [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► never expect them to make MagSafe 3 but [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► I've been musing on it lately yeah [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► anyway so I think if we look at like [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► what kind of ports we might [TS]

01:05:50 ◼   ► realistically actually get I wouldn't [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► expect USBA I wouldn't expect MagSafe SD [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► cards are actually plausible that I [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► think could fit if I'm not sure if they [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► want to but again I think that would go [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► a long way towards addressing a lot of [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► people's complaints HDMI almost [TS]

01:06:07 ◼   ► certainly won't fit they could do mini [TS]

01:06:09 ◼   ► HDMI but they won't you know they're [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► gonna rely on Thunderbolt USBC for that [TS]

01:06:14 ◼   ► but ultimately I think the most [TS]

01:06:17 ◼   ► realistic option is to either get no [TS]

01:06:20 ◼   ► port changes at all which like John I [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► would be very disappointed by or to get [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► more USB C ports which I would be very [TS]

01:06:28 ◼   ► happy with so we'll see ya more USB [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► supports is the most likely I'm still [TS]

01:06:35 ◼   ► rooting for SD I think back when we [TS]

01:06:36 ◼   ► talked about this originally I said just [TS]

01:06:38 ◼   ► add an SD card and they'll be fine but [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► the more I think [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► about the port being taken up by power [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► and experiencing myself the more I think [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► more or USBC would be good idea and by [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► the way for our magazine three design [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► again not that they're doing this but if [TS]

01:06:49 ◼   ► you give up on the notion that the [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► magnet is on the side of the computer [TS]

01:06:52 ◼   ► you can do lots of interesting things [TS]

01:06:53 ◼   ► imagine if MagSafe look like a little [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► shovel and and it was a large surface [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► area magnet sort of on the bottom like [TS]

01:06:59 ◼   ► in an L shape like it clipped onto the [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► corner and tucked underneath a little [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► curve like there are things you could do [TS]

01:07:03 ◼   ► to add much more magnet surface area [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► while keeping it very thin like we don't [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► have to think inside the box defined by [TS]

01:07:09 ◼   ► MagSafe as it previously existed manic [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► magnetically detachable charging cables [TS]

01:07:15 ◼   ► for trip proof nests is I still think a [TS]

01:07:18 ◼   ► good idea and an idea that could [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► manifest in a way they will work with [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► the thinnest possible laptops still so [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► in the chat room expressly asked an [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► interesting question they said which you [TS]

01:07:28 ◼   ► prefer second USB see on the adorable or [TS]

01:07:31 ◼   ► a headphone jack and and I presume the [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► genesis of this is that on the opposite [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► side of the laptop on the right hand [TS]

01:07:37 ◼   ► side and mark oh you're right to say [TS]

01:07:38 ◼   ► that that is bananas but on the right [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► hand side the laptop of the of the [TS]

01:07:41 ◼   ► adorable [TS]

01:07:42 ◼   ► there is a headphone jack and I would [TS]

01:07:45 ◼   ► absolutely without a shadow of a doubt [TS]

01:07:47 ◼   ► trade in that headphone jack for another [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► USB C port without question because [TS]

01:07:51 ◼   ► you've you've got air pause that's right [TS]

01:07:53 ◼   ► yeah I mean you know and all sorts of [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► other bluetooth headphones and in yeah [TS]

01:07:57 ◼   ► there are occasions that I have plugged [TS]

01:07:59 ◼   ► in headphones to this laptop but they [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► are extremely rare and I would get much [TS]

01:08:04 ◼   ► more maybe not daily but much more [TS]

01:08:07 ◼   ► frequent use out of a second USB C port [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► then I would the headphone jack that's [TS]

01:08:11 ◼   ► there today there's no reason to make [TS]

01:08:13 ◼   ► that trade though we already did 20 [TS]

01:08:15 ◼   ► shows about complaining about there's no [TS]

01:08:17 ◼   ► room for another USB port there is that [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► phone it will be fine we are sponsored [TS]

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01:08:42 ◼   ► iPad or your own iPhone but what about [TS]

01:08:44 ◼   ► the other Apple devices in your [TS]

01:08:45 ◼   ► organization as a business grows it gets [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► harder to manage everybody has iPads [TS]

01:08:50 ◼   ► iPhones and Macs and this is especially [TS]

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01:09:40 ◼   ► business today with Jam for now thank [TS]

01:09:42 ◼   ► you so much to camp now for sponsoring [TS]

01:09:44 ◼   ► our show WTC is announced it is in San [TS]

01:09:52 ◼   ► Jose again it is the 4th through the 8th [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► of June which is phenomenally great [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► because that's what the three of us [TS]

01:09:59 ◼   ► guessed it would be and that's what we [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► booked hotel tickets for a long time ago [TS]

01:10:03 ◼   ► so that's great news it is going to be [TS]

01:10:07 ◼   ► apparently about marzipan or whatever [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► it's being called today if you believe [TS]

01:10:12 ◼   ► what people are looking at on the [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► invitation which i think is a exercise [TS]

01:10:15 ◼   ► in futility because the invitation never [TS]

01:10:17 ◼   ► use anything but also of interest on [TS]

01:10:21 ◼   ► that Monday which is the fourth all [TS]

01:10:24 ◼   ► three of your hosts will be there to do [TS]

01:10:25 ◼   ► another episode in addition of ATP live [TS]

01:10:28 ◼   ► which is part of a what are they calling [TS]

01:10:30 ◼   ► it like a podcast fair or something like [TS]

01:10:32 ◼   ► that festival festival that's what I was [TS]

01:10:33 ◼   ► looking for thank you which means to [TS]

01:10:35 ◼   ► live fought cast at all calm we so yeah [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► so we're going to be doing a kind of a [TS]

01:10:41 ◼   ► joint thing between us alt conflict like [TS]

01:10:46 ◼   ► Marco said and relay they're going to be [TS]

01:10:48 ◼   ► doing an episode of connected in [TS]

01:10:50 ◼   ► addition to some other things that I [TS]

01:10:53 ◼   ► genuinely don't know what's happening [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► but I know enough to know that it's [TS]

01:10:55 ◼   ► going to be an extravaganza so if you [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► are interested in coming to see ATP live [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► in San Jose on Monday June 4th you can [TS]

01:11:04 ◼   ► get tickets at alt con Fissel alt cuffs [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► website [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► we'll put a link in the show notes they [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► are five dollars a piece if they're [TS]

01:11:11 ◼   ► still available I honestly haven't even [TS]

01:11:12 ◼   ► looked that money goes to alt conf which [TS]

01:11:14 ◼   ► is good because all conf is free so we [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► don't see any of that money but I don't [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► think that's a bad thing at all and [TS]

01:11:20 ◼   ► additionally you can get tickets to the [TS]

01:11:21 ◼   ► relay thing as well or to all con and [TS]

01:11:24 ◼   ► it's worth noting that even if WDC lot [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► if the if the lottery doesn't work out [TS]

01:11:29 ◼   ► well for you in addition to alt con [TS]

01:11:31 ◼   ► there's also layers that will be going [TS]

01:11:33 ◼   ► on the same time run by friend of the [TS]

01:11:34 ◼   ► show jesse char and a couple of other [TS]

01:11:37 ◼   ► lovely women actually I think it's just [TS]

01:11:38 ◼   ► Elaine and she but anyway they are [TS]

01:11:41 ◼   ► awesome they are super super awesome and [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► the the conference is super super [TS]

01:11:46 ◼   ► awesome and the snacks at the conference [TS]

01:11:47 ◼   ► are super super awesome so no matter how [TS]

01:11:49 ◼   ► you slice it later layers is great all [TS]

01:11:51 ◼   ► conf is great W DC is great plenty of [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► options if you can find yourself in San [TS]

01:11:55 ◼   ► Jose that week is that it well that was [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► fast [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► you covered it pretty well go team [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► raised in chief yeah chief summarize our [TS]

01:12:03 ◼   ► and cheap chief actually do my job for [TS]

01:12:04 ◼   ► once you talk about the WWC graphics [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► which you alluded to earlier I think [TS]

01:12:10 ◼   ► some of the commentary about those are [TS]

01:12:12 ◼   ► commentary tweets whatever about this [TS]

01:12:14 ◼   ► have kind of combined to things that are [TS]

01:12:17 ◼   ► not really related one is the artwork [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► Apple puts on the email invitations to [TS]

01:12:23 ◼   ► select press when they are gonna have an [TS]

01:12:25 ◼   ► event come hear us talk about whatever [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► we you know like iPhone announcement [TS]

01:12:30 ◼   ► event or you know Mac update a bit press [TS]

01:12:32 ◼   ► events right and traditionally they make [TS]

01:12:34 ◼   ► a little graphic and usually sometimes a [TS]

01:12:35 ◼   ► little phrase underneath it right and [TS]

01:12:38 ◼   ► then there is what we're actually [TS]

01:12:39 ◼   ► talking about here which is every year [TS]

01:12:41 ◼   ► when they do WWDC there's some kind of [TS]

01:12:43 ◼   ► graphical motif or theme it's used like [TS]

01:12:46 ◼   ► in the banners that hang in the [TS]

01:12:48 ◼   ► exhibition halls and the rooms where [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► they have things that's used in all the [TS]

01:12:51 ◼   ► websites and the materials and the [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► emails and it started off pretty generic [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► many many years ago but it has evolved [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► so that now each WWC has kind of like a [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► branding theme or flavor so for the [TS]

01:13:06 ◼   ► press invitations [TS]

01:13:08 ◼   ► sometimes those have been intentionally [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► pointing to something they're gonna say [TS]

01:13:13 ◼   ► like the one with a little rotating [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► Apple with the like back to the Mac [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► thing behind it where they were going to [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► talk more about the Mac and guess what [TS]

01:13:20 ◼   ► they talked more about them [TS]

01:13:21 ◼   ► some of them are only explicable in [TS]

01:13:25 ◼   ► hindsight where you can tell some of the [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► graphic treatments on the invitation [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► were the same ones they would use when [TS]

01:13:29 ◼   ► they announced a particular product [TS]

01:13:30 ◼   ► whether it's the iPhone or whatever but [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► sometimes it's just a fun graphical [TS]

01:13:35 ◼   ► theme that has to do with hey we have an [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► app store and you make apps or it and [TS]

01:13:38 ◼   ► absurd these little rounded rectangle [TS]

01:13:39 ◼   ► things so we use lots of lot of rounded [TS]

01:13:41 ◼   ► rectangles in our and our stuff but I [TS]

01:13:42 ◼   ► would say that there is a fairly solid [TS]

01:13:46 ◼   ► track record of some of the time the [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► press invitations do in fact [TS]

01:13:50 ◼   ► intentionally indicates something that [TS]

01:13:52 ◼   ► they're going to talk about in a vague [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► way WWC art on the other hand has a much [TS]

01:13:57 ◼   ► worse track record of communicating [TS]

01:13:59 ◼   ► anything about what's going to breathe [TS]

01:14:01 ◼   ► Zenta to other than the fact that it's a [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► developer conference where they tell you [TS]

01:14:03 ◼   ► about developing crapple platforms as [TS]

01:14:05 ◼   ► far as I can recall there has never been [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► a WWDC website that hinted strongly at [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► the specific nature of a specific thing [TS]

01:14:13 ◼   ► they're going to announce probably [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► mostly because at the time this artwork [TS]

01:14:17 ◼   ► is commissioned they're not even [TS]

01:14:18 ◼   ► entirely sure what's going to be [TS]

01:14:19 ◼   ► presented at WWDC and things that you [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► know are going into and out of the [TS]

01:14:23 ◼   ► keynote and into and out of the sessions [TS]

01:14:24 ◼   ► for a long time so I feel like this [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► route trying to read the tea leaves in [TS]

01:14:31 ◼   ► sort work it's probably about as useful [TS]

01:14:34 ◼   ► as trying to read the tea leaves in last [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► year's artwork which is all those top [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► views of of people yeah a little bit [TS]

01:14:40 ◼   ► which was like it's a particular artist [TS]

01:14:42 ◼   ► who does that style of stuff and it was [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► that that aesthetic theme was all over [TS]

01:14:46 ◼   ► WWC yesteryear but it had nothing to do [TS]

01:14:49 ◼   ► with anything that was presented it was [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► just a cool fun marketing style that [TS]

01:14:53 ◼   ► talked about you know people developers [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► are people and they're doing developing [TS]

01:14:57 ◼   ► things and it's fun and interesting [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► forever [TS]

01:14:59 ◼   ► all right this one looks super cool and [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► it's got these cool 3d representations [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► of like you know UI elements from iOS [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► and the Mac it's because and it's got [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► curly braces and other weird shapes it [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► communicates like hey these are things [TS]

01:15:15 ◼   ► you use when you're developing for our [TS]

01:15:16 ◼   ► platforms and this is a conference about [TS]

01:15:17 ◼   ► developing for our platforms it's really [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► hard to read anything into it but people [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► are so they so want to see something in [TS]

01:15:25 ◼   ► it those things see how these are all 3d [TS]

01:15:27 ◼   ► it's a showing that they're moving away [TS]

01:15:28 ◼   ► from flat design because nothing is flat [TS]

01:15:30 ◼   ► in this to get it man [TS]

01:15:31 ◼   ► there you know and like it's really [TS]

01:15:35 ◼   ► reaching and I have to admit when I saw [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► this and I thought was nostalgia because [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► one of I tweeted this one of the [TS]

01:15:41 ◼   ► elements in this very cool looking like [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► there's an animation that goes along [TS]

01:15:44 ◼   ► with very cool looking 3d rendered [TS]

01:15:45 ◼   ► things showing a bunch of controls one [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► of the elements in the lower left corner [TS]

01:15:49 ◼   ► are three translucent spheres with with [TS]

01:15:54 ◼   ► symbols in them an X a minus and then [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► two little arrow e things like a box [TS]

01:15:58 ◼   ► with a slash through it and I I tweeted [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► about it with a one-word tweet said [TS]

01:16:04 ◼   ► memories dot a lot of people didn't know [TS]

01:16:08 ◼   ► they responded and thought I was [TS]

01:16:10 ◼   ► referring to things in like iOS 10 or [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► something or you know or pre iOS 7 or [TS]

01:16:14 ◼   ► whatever what I was actually referring [TS]

01:16:16 ◼   ► to was the window control widgets what [TS]

01:16:19 ◼   ► we used to call the stoplight widgets [TS]

01:16:21 ◼   ► red for window clothes yellow for [TS]

01:16:23 ◼   ► minimizing green for what used to be [TS]

01:16:24 ◼   ► zoom and is now or the fullscreen arosa [TS]

01:16:26 ◼   ► hell it does now they used to be [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► rendered as if they were glossy spheres [TS]

01:16:32 ◼   ► and when you brought your mouse near [TS]

01:16:35 ◼   ► them or hovered over one of them you'd [TS]

01:16:37 ◼   ► see these symbols appear in the spheres [TS]

01:16:38 ◼   ► and they were glassy spheres just like [TS]

01:16:40 ◼   ► these spheres all this is just viewing [TS]

01:16:42 ◼   ► them from a different angle later in the [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► life life of the Mac operating system [TS]

01:16:46 ◼   ► they became flatter and eventually they [TS]

01:16:48 ◼   ► just became like what they are now which [TS]

01:16:50 ◼   ► is like you know flat colors of red [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► yellow and where they're not they don't [TS]

01:16:53 ◼   ► even look like their spheres at all [TS]

01:16:54 ◼   ► right even though they still have the [TS]

01:16:56 ◼   ► symbols in them but floating in this [TS]

01:16:58 ◼   ► thing are not the flat window widgets of [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► today's high sierra floating in this [TS]

01:17:01 ◼   ► thing are the window widgets of you know [TS]

01:17:03 ◼   ► cheetah puma and Panther Mac os10 I [TS]

01:17:07 ◼   ► forgot about mr. Jaguar sorry Mike OS [TS]

01:17:10 ◼   ► ten point zero one two and three I think [TS]

01:17:13 ◼   ► is how long these things last before [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► they start getting really flat and that [TS]

01:17:16 ◼   ► I thought was a nice nostalgic nod or an [TS]

01:17:19 ◼   ► indication that the Mac is considered [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► legacy but it's a nice nod towards the [TS]

01:17:24 ◼   ► past because most of the other controls [TS]

01:17:26 ◼   ► that you see here are clearly elements [TS]

01:17:28 ◼   ► from iOS or elements from applications [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► that are popularized by iOS like the [TS]

01:17:32 ◼   ► little dot dot when someone's typing in [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► messages right I think it's the same [TS]

01:17:35 ◼   ► graphic they use in in messages on the [TS]

01:17:37 ◼   ► Mac but I associated with iOS just [TS]

01:17:39 ◼   ► because that's where you know text [TS]

01:17:41 ◼   ► messaging first came to the Apple [TS]

01:17:43 ◼   ► platforms [TS]

01:17:45 ◼   ► my take is that you should not read into [TS]

01:17:48 ◼   ► these type of graphics I think this is [TS]

01:17:49 ◼   ► an awesome graphic I love the aesthetic [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► theme and I'm just enjoying it as cool [TS]

01:17:53 ◼   ► branding for WWC yeah I agree with [TS]

01:17:57 ◼   ► everything inter said so we'll all be [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► there and I'm excited for it it's one of [TS]

01:18:02 ◼   ► my favorite times a year and it's really [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► really fun I don't really care at all [TS]

01:18:08 ◼   ► about textures so I don't know which one [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► of you added this to the show notes but [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► do you want to take it away [TS]

01:18:13 ◼   ► apparently magazines are a really hot [TS]

01:18:15 ◼   ► business right now they're it's really a [TS]

01:18:17 ◼   ► growth industry apples getting into the [TS]

01:18:18 ◼   ► air you really messed that one up Marco [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► mm we should explain what this thing is [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► I hadn't heard of it before today [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► surprised because really popular anyway [TS]

01:18:29 ◼   ► Apple as an apple press release end or [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► PR person would say Apple acquires small [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► companies all the time you know it [TS]

01:18:36 ◼   ► actually is really a high number every [TS]

01:18:37 ◼   ► time they say like did you know the last [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► year Apple acquired 35 companies or some [TS]

01:18:40 ◼   ► some huge entry like really they you [TS]

01:18:43 ◼   ► know it's mostly small like Apple [TS]

01:18:44 ◼   ► doesn't want to buy them when they're [TS]

01:18:46 ◼   ► attending dollar company they want to [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► get them before that sometimes they buy [TS]

01:18:49 ◼   ► companies just for the people sometimes [TS]

01:18:50 ◼   ► for the technologies or patents rarely [TS]

01:18:53 ◼   ► do they buy them for complete working [TS]

01:18:55 ◼   ► businesses but that does happen to like [TS]

01:18:57 ◼   ► beets they bought beets and continue to [TS]

01:18:59 ◼   ► sell Beats headphones as Beats [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► headphones right pickets maybe the one [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► of the most recent full-fledged [TS]

01:19:04 ◼   ► businesses they purchased so texture [TS]

01:19:05 ◼   ► seems like one of the small ones it's [TS]

01:19:06 ◼   ► not clear to me whether they bought it [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► for the business or the people or the [TS]

01:19:08 ◼   ► tech or anything like that but it what [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► it is described as is Netflix for [TS]

01:19:13 ◼   ► magazines where you play a flat fee and [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► get access to a bunch of magazines in [TS]

01:19:16 ◼   ► the same way you pay a flat fee every [TS]

01:19:17 ◼   ► month for Netflix and you get access to [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► a bunch of movies [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► why does Apple need to buy this I'm not [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► sure why they might want to buy it but [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► Apple has in the past shown that they're [TS]

01:19:30 ◼   ► interested in being some kind of a [TS]

01:19:34 ◼   ► platform aid to periodicals we all [TS]

01:19:37 ◼   ► remember newsstand Marco I'm sure most [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► fondly mmm [TS]

01:19:40 ◼   ► that was an attempt to do something like [TS]

01:19:42 ◼   ► this newsstand did not work out so well [TS]

01:19:44 ◼   ► newsstand is now gone but it signals [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► apples interest in this texture strikes [TS]

01:19:50 ◼   ► me as all right the approach with [TS]

01:19:52 ◼   ► newsstand of making this weird app slash [TS]

01:19:54 ◼   ► folder where a bunch of things go and [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► putting weird limitations on them a [TS]

01:19:57 ◼   ► giving [TS]

01:19:57 ◼   ► you know of recurring structures like [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► the whole newsstand thing didn't work [TS]

01:20:01 ◼   ► out having individual applications for [TS]

01:20:02 ◼   ► individual things but having them be [TS]

01:20:04 ◼   ► newsstand savvy that that model didn't [TS]

01:20:05 ◼   ► work for us let's try this model and [TS]

01:20:08 ◼   ► this model seems a little bit more like [TS]

01:20:10 ◼   ► Apple News where Apple itself could [TS]

01:20:12 ◼   ► potentially make an application and [TS]

01:20:13 ◼   ► within that application you see a bunch [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► of magazines just like within Apple news [TS]

01:20:17 ◼   ► you see a bunch of news and other [TS]

01:20:19 ◼   ► content you know content providers can [TS]

01:20:21 ◼   ► participate in Apple News not by [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► launching their own application that is [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► Apple News powered but rather by getting [TS]

01:20:26 ◼   ► their news into the one and only Apple [TS]

01:20:28 ◼   ► news application texture is an [TS]

01:20:31 ◼   ► established business that works in a [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► certain way so I'm not sure if Apple's [TS]

01:20:34 ◼   ► gonna rebrand it or just put it out the [TS]

01:20:35 ◼   ► way it is or just scrap texture entirely [TS]

01:20:37 ◼   ► and take those people and tell them to [TS]

01:20:39 ◼   ► make newsstand version 2 this time it'll [TS]

01:20:41 ◼   ► be better but as Marco or maybe Casey [TS]

01:20:45 ◼   ► pointed out it's great that they're kind [TS]

01:20:48 ◼   ► of into that but I'm not sure magazines [TS]

01:20:51 ◼   ► on computers or otherwise they're really [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► where it's at in terms of a growth [TS]

01:20:56 ◼   ► industry but I you know I I would give [TS]

01:20:59 ◼   ► Apple full credit for recognizing the [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► newsstand didn't work out Sun setting in [TS]

01:21:04 ◼   ► a fairly graceful way you know as I [TS]

01:21:06 ◼   ► think Marco said the best time to cancel [TS]

01:21:08 ◼   ► something is when no one notices that [TS]

01:21:09 ◼   ► you cancel it and many people don't [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► realize newsstand is gone now because if [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► you never really news it like isn't it [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► thank God or if you remember what news [TS]

01:21:16 ◼   ► thing was yeah it's gone and no one [TS]

01:21:18 ◼   ► really kicked up a fuss about it [TS]

01:21:20 ◼   ► so that was that was good and I think [TS]

01:21:22 ◼   ► it's worth taking another on it I know I [TS]

01:21:23 ◼   ► read magazines and I do have individual [TS]

01:21:25 ◼   ► app you know I have like the edge [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► magazine application like I read [TS]

01:21:30 ◼   ► magazines on my iPads I don't I'm not [TS]

01:21:31 ◼   ► totally offended by that idea I read [TS]

01:21:34 ◼   ► e-books on my iPad too and so if Apple [TS]

01:21:36 ◼   ► wants to make a really nice service [TS]

01:21:38 ◼   ► application thingy for reading magazines [TS]

01:21:41 ◼   ► sure give it a shot why shouldn't they [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► be allowed to give that a try yeah no [TS]

01:21:45 ◼   ► argument here it just this was not on my [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► radar before and as soon as we cease [TS]

01:21:50 ◼   ► talking about it it will not be on my [TS]

01:21:51 ◼   ► radar yeah do either one of you read [TS]

01:21:53 ◼   ► magazines at all on any iOS device no I [TS]

01:21:56 ◼   ► don't read magazines at all on anything [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► ever yeah no I mean I still recon driver [TS]

01:22:02 ◼   ► on paper and I read edge on paper and [TS]

01:22:04 ◼   ► also in iOS I think there iOS app I mean [TS]

01:22:07 ◼   ► it's not great but it's not the bad old [TS]

01:22:08 ◼   ► days of like the original Zinio for [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► I know this is the new Zinio behind [TS]

01:22:12 ◼   ► these I have no idea what the technology [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► powers it is but it's not just a bunch [TS]

01:22:14 ◼   ► of PDFs they throw under your screen [TS]

01:22:16 ◼   ► although with today's retina they could [TS]

01:22:18 ◼   ► probably do that it would probably be [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► okay especially on the twelve point nine [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► inch because it's a practically magazine [TS]

01:22:23 ◼   ► size and what the brightness screen it [TS]

01:22:24 ◼   ► would look great I'm mostly doing it for [TS]

01:22:26 ◼   ► edge and card driver because I like the [TS]

01:22:28 ◼   ► content but the presentation in Iowa [TS]

01:22:30 ◼   ► isn't bad and it's nice like not to have [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► to carry around you know if you're going [TS]

01:22:34 ◼   ► on vacation you want to read through [TS]

01:22:35 ◼   ► your last three issues of edge magazine [TS]

01:22:37 ◼   ► to have them all on your iPad rather [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► than three paper things yeah it's [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► convenient so I'm I will probably [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► download this and try it and see how [TS]

01:22:46 ◼   ► good the app is and if there are any [TS]

01:22:47 ◼   ► magazines that I care about in there I [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► doubt I'll subscribe to it though cool [TS]

01:22:51 ◼   ► I have nothing to say about this I know [TS]

01:22:54 ◼   ► I just say I don't care and maybe I [TS]

01:22:56 ◼   ► should care but I think Apple buy is [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► leading manufacturer of fax machines [TS]

01:23:01 ◼   ► yeah I mean here's the thing with [TS]

01:23:03 ◼   ► magazines like we were making fun of [TS]

01:23:05 ◼   ► them because magazines is the old world [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► or whatever but websites most websites [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► are not that different from magazines [TS]

01:23:09 ◼   ► and once you have a magazine that [TS]

01:23:11 ◼   ► publishes through an application it's [TS]

01:23:13 ◼   ► like is this just like a closed version [TS]

01:23:14 ◼   ► of the web and a closed version of a web [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► browser maybe but I you know websites [TS]

01:23:20 ◼   ► and magazines still seem slightly [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► different like magazines have websites [TS]

01:23:24 ◼   ► but I don't know maybe I'm just [TS]

01:23:27 ◼   ► nostalgic for the old days of magazines [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► and there's lots of legacy businesses [TS]

01:23:30 ◼   ► that are tied to the magazine format [TS]

01:23:34 ◼   ► that I'm glad to see allowed to live [TS]

01:23:37 ◼   ► another decade or two through an effort [TS]

01:23:39 ◼   ► like this alright so time for skc p m-- [TS]

01:23:42 ◼   ► at Wallin writes my mac pro does not [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► have a Wi-Fi card [TS]

01:23:45 ◼   ► wait this is a Mac Pro question I don't [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► care bill Balinor writes I'm just [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► kidding I'm kidding my Mac Pro does not [TS]

01:23:52 ◼   ► have a Wi-Fi card my wife and son both [TS]

01:23:53 ◼   ► of accounts in the Mac Pro and I was [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► thinking of using migration assistant [TS]

01:23:55 ◼   ► copy stuff from the old machine to the [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► new can I connect them via ethernet for [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► this purpose does or will it matter that [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► the new machine will be running on High [TS]

01:24:02 ◼   ► Sierra and the old machine is El Capitan [TS]

01:24:04 ◼   ► I've looked for specific documentation [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► on this online and haven't found a [TS]

01:24:07 ◼   ► satisfyingly definitive answer no I [TS]

01:24:09 ◼   ► don't think I have ever used migration [TS]

01:24:13 ◼   ► assistant ever [TS]

01:24:14 ◼   ► I'm not saying it's bad I'm not saying [TS]

01:24:15 ◼   ► that I'm doing things the right way it's [TS]

01:24:17 ◼   ► just I like to kind of start fresh each [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► time I know that this is also a little [TS]

01:24:21 ◼   ► bit different because you're talking [TS]

01:24:22 ◼   ► about other people and they may not want [TS]

01:24:24 ◼   ► to [TS]

01:24:24 ◼   ► heart fresh even though you do but I I [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► don't really have any good answers with [TS]

01:24:29 ◼   ► regard to migration assistant have you [TS]

01:24:31 ◼   ► guys to use that I thought both of you [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► have I definitely have I'm a big [TS]

01:24:35 ◼   ► proponent of migration system I think [TS]

01:24:38 ◼   ► there are a couple parts this question [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► starting at the very end I've looked for [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► specific documentation haven't found [TS]

01:24:43 ◼   ► anything I almost guarantee that there [TS]

01:24:45 ◼   ► is satisfying definitive documentation [TS]

01:24:47 ◼   ► related to this on Apple's website but [TS]

01:24:48 ◼   ► yes sometimes it can be hard to find the [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► beginning of the question go back to the [TS]

01:24:51 ◼   ► beginning I can connect by all these [TS]

01:24:53 ◼   ► there are things I don't have Wi-Fi does [TS]

01:24:56 ◼   ► it matter I can tell you that you do not [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► want to use my gray decision migration [TS]

01:25:01 ◼   ► assistant over Wi-Fi if you can at all [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► help it so the fact that your Mac Pro [TS]

01:25:05 ◼   ► doesn't have a Wi-Fi card don't worry [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► about it I would never recommend doing [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► it [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► it was worse when Wi-Fi was slower it's [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► better that with now the Wi-Fi is faster [TS]

01:25:13 ◼   ► but I have not had good luck with using [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► migration assistant over Wi-Fi the good [TS]

01:25:17 ◼   ► news is that most reasonably modern Macs [TS]

01:25:20 ◼   ► can do migration assistant through [TS]

01:25:23 ◼   ► almost any of their ports like I don't [TS]

01:25:24 ◼   ► know if they can do it over the [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► headphone jack yet but like the old iPod [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► shuffle syncing over the headphones yeah [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► I used to do it through firewire you can [TS]

01:25:34 ◼   ► do it through Ethernet you can do it [TS]

01:25:36 ◼   ► through Thunderbolt you can do all [TS]

01:25:38 ◼   ► there's all sorts of ways that migration [TS]

01:25:40 ◼   ► and system will work the bad news is [TS]

01:25:42 ◼   ► figuring out how to get it to work with [TS]

01:25:44 ◼   ► especially with the more obscure ports [TS]

01:25:46 ◼   ► can be tricky so what I would recommend [TS]

01:25:49 ◼   ► is finding going back to Apple's website [TS]

01:25:51 ◼   ► and digging through this stuff and [TS]

01:25:52 ◼   ► finding the documentation for your [TS]

01:25:54 ◼   ► specific computer and it will usually [TS]

01:25:56 ◼   ► tell you and by the way from your [TS]

01:25:58 ◼   ► computer you can only a migrate to this [TS]

01:26:00 ◼   ► set of computers through these [TS]

01:26:01 ◼   ► interfaces like there are there is like [TS]

01:26:03 ◼   ► sort of a matrix of what connected ins [TS]

01:26:04 ◼   ► kind of use and how is known as the [TS]

01:26:06 ◼   ► computer and you can unfortunately find [TS]

01:26:07 ◼   ► yourself in a situation where you're [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► trying to migrate from like a really old [TS]

01:26:11 ◼   ► computer to a really new one when [TS]

01:26:13 ◼   ► there's no great way to do it except for [TS]

01:26:15 ◼   ► maybe Ethernet but then you need even an [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► adapter or whatever but I have never as [TS]

01:26:19 ◼   ► someone who keeps computers for a long [TS]

01:26:20 ◼   ► time I've never kept one long enough [TS]

01:26:21 ◼   ► that I was unable to run migration [TS]

01:26:23 ◼   ► assistant so I was just using the [TS]

01:26:25 ◼   ► fastest connection you can Ethernet is [TS]

01:26:27 ◼   ► probably sufficient and it's probably [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► the sort of the baseline so try to do [TS]

01:26:31 ◼   ► that if you possibly can find the docs [TS]

01:26:34 ◼   ► for it and just give it a try I think [TS]

01:26:36 ◼   ► you will be mostly [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► these were the results I always have [TS]

01:26:39 ◼   ► been I find like that mobile migration [TS]

01:26:41 ◼   ► assistance really does migrate my stuff [TS]

01:26:43 ◼   ► and yes it does take a long time but the [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► amount of time it takes when I do the [TS]

01:26:47 ◼   ► math works out to be roughly a matter of [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► data it has to transfer you know divided [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► by the the transfer rate or whatever I [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► have had almost similar look as that the [TS]

01:26:58 ◼   ► only differences i would suggest are [TS]

01:27:00 ◼   ► when you connect the old mac by a target [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► disk mode it tends to be a significantly [TS]

01:27:06 ◼   ► faster migration justin has an a pretty [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► big problem that i think it's had [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► basically forever in that it is terrible [TS]

01:27:13 ◼   ► at estimating how much time you have [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► left and it will frequently get into a [TS]

01:27:17 ◼   ► state where it appears as though it's [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► making no progress at all and it could [TS]

01:27:21 ◼   ► stay there for hours or even days and [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► that's very frustrating it's very hard [TS]

01:27:27 ◼   ► to tell often what it's doing whether it [TS]

01:27:29 ◼   ► is still going to go how long it's still [TS]

01:27:31 ◼   ► going to go for that's why I said do the [TS]

01:27:33 ◼   ► math like if you know you have you know [TS]

01:27:35 ◼   ► a one terabyte hard drive is mostly full [TS]

01:27:37 ◼   ► and you know your connection is one [TS]

01:27:38 ◼   ► gigabit like do the division figure out [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► how long you think it's gonna take and [TS]

01:27:41 ◼   ► use that as you're outside you know like [TS]

01:27:43 ◼   ► to get an idea of how long you think [TS]

01:27:45 ◼   ► it's gonna take if it takes 10 times [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► that thing something is probably gone [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► wrong but it don't you know don't [TS]

01:27:50 ◼   ► believe the progress bar because it [TS]

01:27:51 ◼   ► doesn't know well anyway I I have had [TS]

01:27:54 ◼   ► significantly better luck with doing it [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► via target disc mode on the on the [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► sending machine rather than like having [TS]

01:28:02 ◼   ► both machines run the migration [TS]

01:28:03 ◼   ► assistant app this would probably also [TS]

01:28:06 ◼   ► if there's any problems with the old one [TS]

01:28:08 ◼   ► being El Capitan target is mode would [TS]

01:28:11 ◼   ► probably avoid those problems a little [TS]

01:28:12 ◼   ► bit more likely or more easily than then [TS]

01:28:15 ◼   ► running the migrate just an app on both [TS]

01:28:17 ◼   ► sides but also yeah it's just I've found [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► the disk method to be way faster and way [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► more reliable and I have never had it [TS]

01:28:25 ◼   ► reach one of those states where it seems [TS]

01:28:27 ◼   ► like it's gonna just take forever [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► whereas over Wi-Fi and even Gigabit [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► Ethernet I've had that happen so if I do [TS]

01:28:34 ◼   ► in target this mode you have most of the [TS]

01:28:38 ◼   ► options that John suggested on the old [TS]

01:28:40 ◼   ► Mac Pro you probably see the Mac Pro's [TS]

01:28:44 ◼   ► that had Wi-Fi are optional would be [TS]

01:28:45 ◼   ► 2006 to 2008 I believe it was standard [TS]

01:28:48 ◼   ► after that so it's pretty old [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► it will definitely predate all [TS]

01:28:52 ◼   ► because thunderbolt came after the mac [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► pro so your best port is probably [TS]

01:28:56 ◼   ► firewire 800 assuming you have well you [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► definitely have that assuming it still [TS]

01:29:00 ◼   ► works then I would suggest you know if [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► you have any problems trying to do this [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► over Ethernet [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► I would suggest assuming the new machine [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► has Thunderbolt [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► go to the Apple store get a thunderbolt [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► - well let's see you're gonna need two [TS]

01:29:15 ◼   ► dongles all right now if I were 800 that [TS]

01:29:17 ◼   ► is what I've got on the iMac right now [TS]

01:29:18 ◼   ► isn't it suggest if you like target us [TS]

01:29:20 ◼   ► moment he doesn't go firewire 800 to USB [TS]

01:29:22 ◼   ► 3 then our mold or does it hat do you [TS]

01:29:24 ◼   ► have to adapt 2 to 3 and then 2 to 800 I [TS]

01:29:27 ◼   ► only have one adapter in the back of my [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► 5k iMac [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► it's like firewire 800 into this adapter [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► and this adapter into the back of the [TS]

01:29:36 ◼   ► iMac but I confess I do not recall what [TS]

01:29:38 ◼   ► exactly it's going into the back of yet [TS]

01:29:40 ◼   ► so you know it so assuming that your he [TS]

01:29:43 ◼   ► doesn't actually say what he's going to [TS]

01:29:44 ◼   ► write no ok so assuming let's say that [TS]

01:29:49 ◼   ► it's a current generation machine that [TS]

01:29:51 ◼   ► only has Thunderbolt 3 ports you might [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► need two dongles to go once from 800 to [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 2 and then once again from [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 2 to 300 3 so that might be [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► like $80 worth of don lows because [TS]

01:30:05 ◼   ► Thunderbolt ones like 50 bucks [TS]

01:30:10 ◼   ► practically speaking the reason I find [TS]

01:30:13 ◼   ► myself using Ethernet is because I'm [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► doing two desktops in the far away from [TS]

01:30:15 ◼   ► each other and it's kind of a pain to [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► like yeah disconnected that top and lug [TS]

01:30:19 ◼   ► it over and put it close enough so your [TS]

01:30:20 ◼   ► little firewire or Thunderbolt or USBC [TS]

01:30:24 ◼   ► cable can connect to the right ports [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► just then you're like look you know [TS]

01:30:27 ◼   ► Ethernet is easier even if your home [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► isn't wire everything in it so just get [TS]

01:30:31 ◼   ► on your feet of Ethernet cable and plug [TS]

01:30:33 ◼   ► it in and snake it over and leave it [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► there for a day for you to do the [TS]

01:30:36 ◼   ► transfers that of course encourage you [TS]

01:30:37 ◼   ► to wire your house or Ethernet like a [TS]

01:30:39 ◼   ► civilized person yeah well I mean it to [TS]

01:30:41 ◼   ► me if they have a Mac Pro that doesn't [TS]

01:30:43 ◼   ► have Wi-Fi they probably have this [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► covered anyway so yeah that I agree try [TS]

01:30:48 ◼   ► Ethernet first and only go by the $80 [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► worth of dongles and cables if for some [TS]

01:30:53 ◼   ► reason you can't always sales and backup [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► before you do anything [TS]

01:30:57 ◼   ► backup make a bunch of backups take the [TS]

01:30:59 ◼   ► backups disconnect them from all your [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► computers put it you know put it [TS]

01:31:02 ◼   ► someplace else and then [TS]

01:31:04 ◼   ► have fun screwing through computers [TS]

01:31:05 ◼   ► worst case scenario you screw everything [TS]

01:31:06 ◼   ► up you erase everything you restore from [TS]

01:31:08 ◼   ► backup and then you're back to your [TS]

01:31:09 ◼   ► initial stage again also wait if you can [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► back up to like a USB 3 hard drive your [TS]

01:31:15 ◼   ► old my protists must be 3 migration but [TS]

01:31:18 ◼   ► yeah you could just then plug that into [TS]

01:31:19 ◼   ► the new computer and just do it that way [TS]

01:31:23 ◼   ► all right [TS]

01:31:24 ◼   ► Bill Balinor writes is it ok for [TS]

01:31:27 ◼   ► developers to force flight interactions [TS]

01:31:29 ◼   ► on their users such as labeling the ok [TS]

01:31:31 ◼   ► button and a prompt yes please or the [TS]

01:31:33 ◼   ► dismiss button in a confirmation dialog [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► Thanks these things make me cranky [TS]

01:31:37 ◼   ► you're wrong [TS]

01:31:39 ◼   ► this is absolutely acceptable and I like [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► it Oh God know what's right ok so ok [TS]

01:31:44 ◼   ► there's if done in a non-intrusive non [TS]

01:31:50 ◼   ► suggestive not putting words in my mouth [TS]

01:31:52 ◼   ► kind of way it can be fine unfortunately [TS]

01:31:56 ◼   ► that's not what happens in practice in [TS]

01:31:57 ◼   ► practice you have things like no I don't [TS]

01:32:01 ◼   ► want to subscribe to the newsletter and [TS]

01:32:02 ◼   ► get all these special deals because I'm [TS]

01:32:03 ◼   ► cheap like or like somebody that like [TS]

01:32:05 ◼   ► they make you so often the words they [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► use are passive-aggressively condemning [TS]

01:32:12 ◼   ► yourself for making a choice that does [TS]

01:32:15 ◼   ► not benefit the developer's business [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► interests and it's really obnoxious [TS]

01:32:19 ◼   ► oftentimes other than that it just you [TS]

01:32:22 ◼   ► know it tries to sound human and hip and [TS]

01:32:25 ◼   ► cool but it's from like a big [TS]

01:32:27 ◼   ► corporation and we know that's fake and [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► it comes off as just insincere fakery [TS]

01:32:32 ◼   ► trying to appeal to be more human from a [TS]

01:32:34 ◼   ► company that is anything but so it's [TS]

01:32:37 ◼   ► very it's very hard and very rare to get [TS]

01:32:40 ◼   ► this kind of thing right in a way that [TS]

01:32:42 ◼   ► sounds both sincere and non offensive [TS]

01:32:46 ◼   ► III think you're reading too much into [TS]

01:32:48 ◼   ► this or maybe I'm not reading enough [TS]

01:32:49 ◼   ► into it to me like having a having a [TS]

01:32:52 ◼   ► dismissed button that says things I [TS]

01:32:54 ◼   ► don't have a problem with that having a [TS]

01:32:55 ◼   ► dismiss button dismissed button that [TS]

01:32:57 ◼   ► says no I'm too cheap or even if it's [TS]

01:32:59 ◼   ► passive-aggressively saying no I'm too [TS]

01:33:01 ◼   ► cheap and not using those literal words [TS]

01:33:02 ◼   ► that yes I agree with you that's total [TS]

01:33:05 ◼   ► garbage but something as simple as yes [TS]

01:33:07 ◼   ► please or thanks or no thank you like I [TS]

01:33:09 ◼   ► don't have a problem with that at all [TS]

01:33:10 ◼   ► you I think you would have a problem [TS]

01:33:12 ◼   ► with the thanks because thanks is [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► putting words in your mouth like you [TS]

01:33:15 ◼   ► just want the box to go away so there's [TS]

01:33:16 ◼   ► there's two aspects of problem one is [TS]

01:33:17 ◼   ► the giving your you know press thing [TS]

01:33:20 ◼   ► personality and putting words into the [TS]

01:33:22 ◼   ► mouth of the user because what if [TS]

01:33:22 ◼   ► they're annoyed at your application [TS]

01:33:23 ◼   ► right now and are forced to hit a button [TS]

01:33:25 ◼   ► that says thanks and they don't want to [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► thank your application at all because [TS]

01:33:27 ◼   ► they're frustrated with your application [TS]

01:33:28 ◼   ► the thanks button makes them hate your [TS]

01:33:30 ◼   ► application even more because you're [TS]

01:33:31 ◼   ► forcing them to pretend they're saying [TS]

01:33:32 ◼   ► thanks right but the second reason [TS]

01:33:34 ◼   ► independent of all this stuff is people [TS]

01:33:37 ◼   ► are accustomed to the dialog box is [TS]

01:33:38 ◼   ► alerted in a certain way yes no okay [TS]

01:33:40 ◼   ► cancel like there are interface [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► standards that they're accustomed to and [TS]

01:33:43 ◼   ► if your application deviates from those [TS]

01:33:44 ◼   ► standards in any way there should be a [TS]

01:33:47 ◼   ► reason for it maybe your carrot weather [TS]

01:33:49 ◼   ► and you have a personality type thing [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► and that's part of the selling point of [TS]

01:33:52 ◼   ► your application fine but if your [TS]

01:33:53 ◼   ► application is selling point it's not [TS]

01:33:55 ◼   ► like there's a cost to defying [TS]

01:33:58 ◼   ► expectations it causes people to pause [TS]

01:34:00 ◼   ► and have to look at it and think about [TS]

01:34:01 ◼   ► what the hit-and and like read it causes [TS]

01:34:04 ◼   ► them to have to read where it's no one [TS]

01:34:05 ◼   ► reads yes no or okay cancel if they see [TS]

01:34:06 ◼   ► them a million times they just you know [TS]

01:34:08 ◼   ► it becomes like a visual macro you just [TS]

01:34:10 ◼   ► like oh I recognize that I don't know [TS]

01:34:11 ◼   ► which thing I want to hit or even just a [TS]

01:34:14 ◼   ► single button dismiss thing in iOS where [TS]

01:34:16 ◼   ► the button is always labeled is okay and [TS]

01:34:18 ◼   ► now suddenly that button has different [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► text on it you're forced to read it you [TS]

01:34:22 ◼   ► find out it says thanks you don't feel [TS]

01:34:23 ◼   ► like thanking anybody and now you're [TS]

01:34:25 ◼   ► annoyed so I would I would in general [TS]

01:34:28 ◼   ► say there is no 100% safe way to inject [TS]

01:34:32 ◼   ► personality into labels like that there [TS]

01:34:34 ◼   ► are a lot of downsides and the only [TS]

01:34:36 ◼   ► potential upsides are if your [TS]

01:34:37 ◼   ► applications value proposition is based [TS]

01:34:41 ◼   ► on its personality and whimsy which can [TS]

01:34:44 ◼   ► be done but it's much trickier than you [TS]

01:34:46 ◼   ► think it also be very careful when [TS]

01:34:50 ◼   ► you're writing dialog text if you're a [TS]

01:34:51 ◼   ► developer or if you're Apple mm-hmm [TS]

01:34:53 ◼   ► that attributes malice or actions to the [TS]

01:34:56 ◼   ► user or if they're in tributes its [TS]

01:34:58 ◼   ► intent or actions to the user that may [TS]

01:35:02 ◼   ► or may not be the case one of the most [TS]

01:35:04 ◼   ► infuriating pieces of text and all of [TS]

01:35:06 ◼   ► Mac OS is the dialog that comes up after [TS]

01:35:09 ◼   ► it has a kernel panic and shuts down and [TS]

01:35:11 ◼   ► reboots that says you shut down your [TS]

01:35:15 ◼   ► computer because of a problem and a lot [TS]

01:35:17 ◼   ► of times no you shut down my computer [TS]

01:35:20 ◼   ► because of your problem it doesn't say [TS]

01:35:23 ◼   ► that [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► totally that it says your computer shut [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► down doodles you shut down your computer [TS]

01:35:30 ◼   ► yeah I agree with John that is not how I [TS]

01:35:33 ◼   ► remember this are you sure I am Not sure [TS]

01:35:35 ◼   ► I would check because ever I don't see [TS]

01:35:38 ◼   ► it often but every time I see it I'm [TS]

01:35:41 ◼   ► like oh I'm on fire you shut down my [TS]

01:35:43 ◼   ► computer I didn't shut down my computer [TS]

01:35:45 ◼   ► so so here's what the kernel panic you [TS]

01:35:48 ◼   ► know the overlay the overlay that comes [TS]

01:35:49 ◼   ► on in five languages when you get a [TS]

01:35:50 ◼   ► kernel panic yeah it's not that it's [TS]

01:35:52 ◼   ► it's the dialogue that shows up on the [TS]

01:35:53 ◼   ► first boot after right okay but so [TS]

01:35:55 ◼   ► anyway the overlay says your computer [TS]

01:35:58 ◼   ► restarted because of a problems that may [TS]

01:36:00 ◼   ► be what I'm remembering for that wording [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► all right now the after your computer [TS]

01:36:03 ◼   ► restarts marker was right I'm looking at [TS]

01:36:05 ◼   ► this thing in Apple's website it says [TS]

01:36:07 ◼   ► you shut down your computer because of a [TS]

01:36:09 ◼   ► problem it's really it sets me on fire [TS]

01:36:12 ◼   ► if I ever system run apple's website up [TS]

01:36:14 ◼   ► we will put it in the show notes i'm [TS]

01:36:15 ◼   ► assuming this is the current dialog but [TS]

01:36:17 ◼   ► it's a Apple support document looks like [TS]

01:36:19 ◼   ► it might be an old theme but yeah that's [TS]

01:36:21 ◼   ► that's definitely at the current wording [TS]

01:36:22 ◼   ► yeah maybe I was reading that as your [TS]

01:36:24 ◼   ► because you know the the kernel panic [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► one does say you're but the dialog [TS]

01:36:28 ◼   ► versus you shut it doesn't even make [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► sense [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► it how would you shut down the computer [TS]

01:36:33 ◼   ► like spontaneously because of a problem [TS]

01:36:35 ◼   ► like is it just like all of a sudden you [TS]

01:36:37 ◼   ► saw a problem and you reach for the plug [TS]

01:36:39 ◼   ► in the wall and yanked it out like how [TS]

01:36:41 ◼   ► is that even the thing that you could do [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► because if you if you found a problem [TS]

01:36:45 ◼   ► and you selected shut down you would [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► never see this dialog box you know it's [TS]

01:36:48 ◼   ► kind of like putting words in my mouth [TS]

01:36:49 ◼   ► and it's like putting actions in my [TS]

01:36:51 ◼   ► mouth it's like no I didn't do this you [TS]

01:36:53 ◼   ► know you did this you know it like and [TS]

01:36:56 ◼   ► it's like you know so when you're you [TS]

01:36:58 ◼   ► know when you see an app that's like you [TS]

01:36:59 ◼   ► know forcing you to say thanks or no I [TS]

01:37:03 ◼   ► don't want to see your great deals [TS]

01:37:05 ◼   ► I don't like great deals like that that [TS]

01:37:09 ◼   ► is it seems like it might be cute or [TS]

01:37:12 ◼   ► helpful or something and trust me it's [TS]

01:37:14 ◼   ► not at all like it you have to be so [TS]

01:37:17 ◼   ► careful with that stuff that you know [TS]

01:37:19 ◼   ► and there is a there is an additional [TS]

01:37:20 ◼   ► dollar by the way that says your [TS]

01:37:22 ◼   ► computer was restarted because of a [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► problem and then that one it says the [TS]

01:37:25 ◼   ► you know ignore more info and move to [TS]

01:37:30 ◼   ► trash for like an application they [TS]

01:37:32 ◼   ► crashed like we see that one when an app [TS]

01:37:34 ◼   ► crashes so there is one that is more [TS]

01:37:37 ◼   ► you know let's blame me but the fact [TS]

01:37:39 ◼   ► that there exists any dialog says you [TS]

01:37:41 ◼   ► shut down your computer because of a [TS]

01:37:42 ◼   ► problem but it's the dialogue that's [TS]

01:37:44 ◼   ► asking whether you want to restore all [TS]

01:37:46 ◼   ► the applications that were open so your [TS]

01:37:48 ◼   ► choices are please reopen everything [TS]

01:37:49 ◼   ► like it was before it canceled I'm sorry [TS]

01:37:53 ◼   ► what reopen everything please reopen [TS]

01:37:55 ◼   ► everything yeah I'm not a dialog box I [TS]

01:37:57 ◼   ► don't have to put that like the button [TS]

01:37:58 ◼   ► is not saying please the button says [TS]

01:38:01 ◼   ► open and the cancel button says no [TS]

01:38:02 ◼   ► thanks comma cancel oh I'm sorry it [TS]

01:38:04 ◼   ► doesn't say no thanks comma cancel it [TS]

01:38:05 ◼   ► says cancel because that's what cancel [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► button say on them I'm not a button on [TS]

01:38:09 ◼   ► person um yeah that's that's what it's [TS]

01:38:12 ◼   ► asking you and so again if it's asking [TS]

01:38:14 ◼   ► you that it means the entire thing [TS]

01:38:17 ◼   ► abruptly stopped functioning and it [TS]

01:38:19 ◼   ► realizes that abruptly stopped [TS]

01:38:20 ◼   ► functioning because it didn't do all [TS]

01:38:21 ◼   ► like the nice shutdown clean up stuff so [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► the next time it starts up it says I [TS]

01:38:24 ◼   ► don't see the nice shutdown clean up [TS]

01:38:25 ◼   ► stuff which means things ended abruptly [TS]

01:38:27 ◼   ► last time and I honestly don't think [TS]

01:38:30 ◼   ► there's any user action that you could [TS]

01:38:32 ◼   ► take other than if it knew somehow [TS]

01:38:34 ◼   ► because of cameras that you had yank the [TS]

01:38:36 ◼   ► cord out or flick the power switch the [TS]

01:38:38 ◼   ► hard yourself even if it sees you do it [TS]

01:38:41 ◼   ► it still shouldn't say that it's just [TS]

01:38:44 ◼   ► it's just setting you on fire [TS]

01:38:45 ◼   ► unnecessarily and how would it know it [TS]

01:38:47 ◼   ► was because of a problem maybe you shut [TS]

01:38:49 ◼   ► down your computer because you couldn't [TS]

01:38:51 ◼   ► figure out any other way like you know [TS]

01:38:52 ◼   ► you're you're in an experienced computer [TS]

01:38:55 ◼   ► user and the only way you know how to [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► turn it off is to hold down the power [TS]

01:38:57 ◼   ► button for five seconds [TS]

01:38:59 ◼   ► maybe you shut your computer as a [TS]

01:39:00 ◼   ► statement yeah because of a problem [TS]

01:39:03 ◼   ► wasn't a problem with your computer was [TS]

01:39:04 ◼   ► just like a problem in the world I think [TS]

01:39:08 ◼   ► you might be reading too much into this [TS]

01:39:10 ◼   ► I think what the way I've always read [TS]

01:39:11 ◼   ► this and why I haven't been perturbed by [TS]

01:39:14 ◼   ► it is because the computer well I guess [TS]

01:39:17 ◼   ► I can turn itself off but in this [TS]

01:39:19 ◼   ► scenario of a kernel panic it doesn't [TS]

01:39:20 ◼   ► turn itself off it is you that is [TS]

01:39:22 ◼   ► physically turning the computer off and [TS]

01:39:23 ◼   ► restarting it not always no default [TS]

01:39:27 ◼   ► every boot itself doesn't it doesn't [TS]

01:39:28 ◼   ► reboot it I didn't think it did I think [TS]

01:39:30 ◼   ► it does now I think that's been the case [TS]

01:39:32 ◼   ► for the last few years [TS]

01:39:33 ◼   ► oh no you're right you know press a key [TS]

01:39:34 ◼   ► you're wait a few seconds to continue [TS]

01:39:35 ◼   ► starting oh no I guess you're right I [TS]

01:39:37 ◼   ► guess you're right all I know is you [TS]

01:39:38 ◼   ► guys are clearly from the Northeast or [TS]

01:39:41 ◼   ► have lived there too long because you're [TS]

01:39:42 ◼   ► employed assholes moving on before you [TS]

01:39:47 ◼   ► move on like oh yeah and I want to [TS]

01:39:48 ◼   ► iterate it's not it's not about [TS]

01:39:49 ◼   ► politeness it's about the [TS]

01:39:50 ◼   ► there are conventions for the user [TS]

01:39:52 ◼   ► interface and anything that deviates the [TS]

01:39:53 ◼   ► convention it's like whatever bill maybe [TS]

01:39:55 ◼   ► things work like anything that deviates [TS]

01:39:57 ◼   ► from the convention requires thinking [TS]

01:39:59 ◼   ► and processing time and it's it's [TS]

01:40:01 ◼   ► cognitive load for no benefit unless [TS]

01:40:04 ◼   ► there is actual benefit of the [TS]

01:40:05 ◼   ► personality application otherwise every [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► time we look at dialogue we'd have to [TS]

01:40:09 ◼   ► parse each person's you know politeness [TS]

01:40:12 ◼   ► and phrasing and preambles stuff when we [TS]

01:40:14 ◼   ► just want okay cancel or you know [TS]

01:40:16 ◼   ► there's some standard buttons that say [TS]

01:40:17 ◼   ► standard things that fit in a standard [TS]

01:40:18 ◼   ► amount of space and we don't want to [TS]

01:40:20 ◼   ► have to read them I actually do [TS]

01:40:21 ◼   ► completely agree with you on that [TS]

01:40:22 ◼   ► Chadd supports key rights when it comes [TS]

01:40:24 ◼   ► to video games how much of a [TS]

01:40:26 ◼   ► completionist eve each of you consider [TS]

01:40:27 ◼   ► yourselves to be how much does it depend [TS]

01:40:29 ◼   ► on the type of game scope of the game [TS]

01:40:30 ◼   ► and your level of interest in it I will [TS]

01:40:32 ◼   ► start by saying I am not at all a [TS]

01:40:34 ◼   ► completionist and obviously I am I think [TS]

01:40:37 ◼   ► mark when I fight over who is the least [TS]

01:40:38 ◼   ► video game II person of the three of us [TS]

01:40:41 ◼   ► but but I I do play video games from [TS]

01:40:44 ◼   ► time to time as I think we mentioned [TS]

01:40:45 ◼   ► last week the week before I've been [TS]

01:40:47 ◼   ► getting back into breath of the wild but [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► there whenever it is I beat Ganon at the [TS]

01:40:52 ◼   ► end of breath of the wild if I don't [TS]

01:40:53 ◼   ► have all 120 whatever it is shrines and [TS]

01:40:56 ◼   ► if I don't have all 80 gazillion Quora [TS]

01:40:58 ◼   ► Corki rock or whatever they're called [TS]

01:41:00 ◼   ► seeds I am NOT gonna care I will be [TS]

01:41:02 ◼   ► putting that game down and probably [TS]

01:41:03 ◼   ► never playing it again and that's just [TS]

01:41:05 ◼   ► me Marco since you are all so useless [TS]

01:41:07 ◼   ► like me how do you treat this kind of in [TS]

01:41:10 ◼   ► between you and a normal person I will [TS]

01:41:14 ◼   ► try to be fairly complete as I'm playing [TS]

01:41:17 ◼   ► but then I will usually reach a point at [TS]

01:41:19 ◼   ► which my interest just Falls you know [TS]

01:41:22 ◼   ► for a game that that can be quote beaten [TS]

01:41:25 ◼   ► or that has like a main storyline that [TS]

01:41:26 ◼   ► can be completed I do really want to [TS]

01:41:28 ◼   ► compete that main storyline but like you [TS]

01:41:30 ◼   ► I you know once I and on my way there I [TS]

01:41:33 ◼   ► might be you know collecting as much as [TS]

01:41:36 ◼   ► I possibly can like true like like like [TS]

01:41:38 ◼   ► when playing mario odyssey i [TS]

01:41:40 ◼   ► I really tried to get as many of the [TS]

01:41:43 ◼   ► moons as possible like yeah you know as [TS]

01:41:45 ◼   ► I'm going through each world [TS]

01:41:46 ◼   ► I don't just fly away as soon as I can [TS]

01:41:48 ◼   ► but then after you complete the main [TS]

01:41:51 ◼   ► storyline you can go back and get a [TS]

01:41:52 ◼   ► whole bunch more and I started doing [TS]

01:41:54 ◼   ► that and I just haven't really continued [TS]

01:41:55 ◼   ► yet and and I I intend to go back and [TS]

01:41:58 ◼   ► play it I don't know when I will exactly [TS]

01:42:01 ◼   ► cuz now I'm up I'm playing other games [TS]

01:42:03 ◼   ► I don't know when I actually will but I [TS]

01:42:05 ◼   ► do intend to still go back and do that I [TS]

01:42:07 ◼   ► don't stop because I like decide I'm [TS]

01:42:12 ◼   ► done with this game forever it just kind [TS]

01:42:14 ◼   ► of happens like like stardew valley I [TS]

01:42:16 ◼   ► plates already Valley very heavily for a [TS]

01:42:18 ◼   ► long time and I intend to go back to it [TS]

01:42:22 ◼   ► but the last time I played it was [TS]

01:42:23 ◼   ► probably three months ago you know and I [TS]

01:42:25 ◼   ► just haven't gone back to it yet but I [TS]

01:42:27 ◼   ► do intend to I haven't had a kid yet I [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► want to see you how that works so like [TS]

01:42:30 ◼   ► you know I you know there's more I want [TS]

01:42:32 ◼   ► to do in that game but like once I reach [TS]

01:42:34 ◼   ► a certain point where I feel like I've [TS]

01:42:36 ◼   ► done mostly everything there is to do I [TS]

01:42:39 ◼   ► find it hard to motivate myself to go [TS]

01:42:41 ◼   ► back and get like the last 10% you did [TS]

01:42:45 ◼   ► have an actual kid what you mean is a [TS]

01:42:46 ◼   ► pixelated kid yes all right just just to [TS]

01:42:50 ◼   ► make that clear like I had a kid yet in [TS]

01:42:53 ◼   ► stardew valley the game I was talking [TS]

01:42:54 ◼   ► about during that sentence I just named [TS]

01:42:57 ◼   ► the context freely where's Adam he's [TS]

01:42:59 ◼   ► upstairs asleep so this this question [TS]

01:43:03 ◼   ► doesn't really define what completionist [TS]

01:43:05 ◼   ► means but I'm kind of with Marco and [TS]

01:43:07 ◼   ► that like there's there's two strains oh [TS]

01:43:09 ◼   ► I like Marco if I'm playing a narrative [TS]

01:43:12 ◼   ► game that is trying to tell me a story [TS]

01:43:13 ◼   ► and if I like the game well enough like [TS]

01:43:17 ◼   ► you know that like I'm having fun [TS]

01:43:19 ◼   ► playing it I do want to see how that [TS]

01:43:21 ◼   ► story turns out but the modern practice [TS]

01:43:25 ◼   ► of video games of basically said [TS]

01:43:27 ◼   ► providing a tremendous amount of things [TS]

01:43:31 ◼   ► to do outside the main story means that [TS]

01:43:34 ◼   ► for me to actually 100% clear game by [TS]

01:43:37 ◼   ► getting all the things that you can get [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► and doing all the things that you can do [TS]

01:43:40 ◼   ► has actually become a lot harder over [TS]

01:43:42 ◼   ► the years both in terms of time [TS]

01:43:43 ◼   ► investment and skill it used to be that [TS]

01:43:46 ◼   ► if you finish a story then there'd be a [TS]

01:43:47 ◼   ► couple of ancillary things to do but [TS]

01:43:48 ◼   ► Mario Odyssey is like this story is like [TS]

01:43:50 ◼   ► one-eighth of the game and then like if [TS]

01:43:52 ◼   ► you really wanted to complete it in [TS]

01:43:54 ◼   ► terms of hours spent and effort required [TS]

01:43:55 ◼   ► the real game begins after you finish [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► the story mode so I did finish the story [TS]

01:44:00 ◼   ► mode of Mariotti [TS]

01:44:01 ◼   ► and I did enjoy it and I do like the [TS]

01:44:03 ◼   ► fact that there's a lot more after that [TS]

01:44:04 ◼   ► and then you can do it kind of in any [TS]

01:44:05 ◼   ► order that you want but I don't think I [TS]

01:44:07 ◼   ► will 100% clear Mario does he ever [TS]

01:44:10 ◼   ► contrast that with mario sunshine which [TS]

01:44:12 ◼   ► was not as good at Mario game but any [TS]

01:44:14 ◼   ► stretch of the imagination is Odyssey [TS]

01:44:15 ◼   ► and yet [TS]

01:44:16 ◼   ► under percent cleared sunshine because [TS]

01:44:18 ◼   ► the amount of stuff that you had to do [TS]

01:44:20 ◼   ► beyond the main story in sunshine seems [TS]

01:44:22 ◼   ► so much more tractable to me and because [TS]

01:44:25 ◼   ► the things they had you doing we're like [TS]

01:44:26 ◼   ► one annoying collection quest and a [TS]

01:44:29 ◼   ► bunch of levels that were hard but of [TS]

01:44:31 ◼   ► the variety that they'd already had that [TS]

01:44:33 ◼   ► I really enjoyed and so it seemed like a [TS]

01:44:35 ◼   ► thing that I could do and lo and behold [TS]

01:44:36 ◼   ► I did do it [TS]

01:44:38 ◼   ► similarly with Zelda games uh you know I [TS]

01:44:42 ◼   ► will always finish the story enemies [TS]

01:44:43 ◼   ► Elda game i love zelda games 100% [TS]

01:44:45 ◼   ► cleared a couple of Zelda's but not all [TS]

01:44:47 ◼   ► of them because some yeah especially as [TS]

01:44:49 ◼   ► time goes on when I start adding even [TS]

01:44:51 ◼   ► more and more collect it was like I'm [TS]

01:44:52 ◼   ► never gonna get all the coal Rock seeds [TS]

01:44:53 ◼   ► and in breath of the wild I won't I just [TS]

01:44:56 ◼   ► it's never gonna happen right but I [TS]

01:44:57 ◼   ► probably will do eventually all the [TS]

01:44:59 ◼   ► shrines and that's kind of and that's [TS]

01:45:01 ◼   ► that's a game that I love it's not a [TS]

01:45:03 ◼   ► game that I love I'll do the story and I [TS]

01:45:05 ◼   ► feel like it done with it what if the [TS]

01:45:06 ◼   ► game has no story the game has no story [TS]

01:45:08 ◼   ► I just play it when it's fun and it [TS]

01:45:09 ◼   ► stops being fun I'll stop playing it [TS]

01:45:10 ◼   ► like I I feel like I will actually [TS]

01:45:12 ◼   ► continue to play a game after it stops [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► being fun to her I'm really close to the [TS]

01:45:15 ◼   ► end of a narrative story just because I [TS]

01:45:17 ◼   ► want to see how it ends that's kind of [TS]

01:45:18 ◼   ► true like movies and books too we [TS]

01:45:19 ◼   ► sometimes you're like well I'm invested [TS]

01:45:22 ◼   ► and I know there's only three chapters [TS]

01:45:24 ◼   ► left and even those books kind of [TS]

01:45:25 ◼   ► knowing me I still want to see how it [TS]

01:45:27 ◼   ► ends and so you'll power your way [TS]

01:45:28 ◼   ► through so that's that's kind of my take [TS]

01:45:29 ◼   ► on completion ISM anybody games thanks [TS]

01:45:32 ◼   ► to our sponsors this week aftershocks [TS]

01:45:34 ◼   ► Backblaze and jammed now and we'll talk [TS]

01:45:36 ◼   ► to you next week now the show is over [TS]

01:45:42 ◼   ► they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

01:45:45 ◼   ► accidental oh it was accidental [TS]

01:45:51 ◼   ► Johnny research Marco and Casey wouldn't [TS]

01:45:54 ◼   ► let him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

01:45:59 ◼   ► accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:46:02 ◼   ► notes at ADP FM and if you're into [TS]

01:46:07 ◼   ► Twitter you can follow them [TS]

01:46:11 ◼   ► CAS URL is s so that's Casey less ma RC [TS]

01:46:17 ◼   ► o AR m auntie Marco Arment SI r AC [TS]

01:46:25 ◼   ► Syracuse [TS]

01:46:39 ◼   ► Casey you're back at work now yeah tell [TS]

01:46:42 ◼   ► us about that so you're you're full-time [TS]

01:46:44 ◼   ► back now brightly no that's normal [TS]

01:46:46 ◼   ► no no no no I'm spending the month of [TS]

01:46:50 ◼   ► March easing my way in so as we record [TS]

01:46:53 ◼   ► this last week I did a sum total of one [TS]

01:46:56 ◼   ► day of work and I did two half days [TS]

01:46:59 ◼   ► which basically means I went in when [TS]

01:47:00 ◼   ► Declan was a preschool and then this [TS]

01:47:03 ◼   ► week I did full-day Tuesday but only [TS]

01:47:07 ◼   ► half of it at work I did the rest from [TS]

01:47:09 ◼   ► home so you can guess where this is [TS]

01:47:11 ◼   ► going I went to work when Declan was a [TS]

01:47:13 ◼   ► preschool then I came home and was here [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► working on my iMac for the remainder of [TS]

01:47:17 ◼   ► the day and then tomorrow I am doing [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► sort of kind of the same we have an [TS]

01:47:23 ◼   ► appointment to get Mikayla's passport [TS]

01:47:25 ◼   ► for some events that are happening in a [TS]

01:47:27 ◼   ► couple of months that I believe I'll be [TS]

01:47:29 ◼   ► seeing both of you at so we need to get [TS]

01:47:31 ◼   ► that squared away but this week I'm [TS]

01:47:34 ◼   ► doing two days next week I'm doing three [TS]

01:47:35 ◼   ► whole days and I think the week after [TS]

01:47:37 ◼   ► that I'm actually ramped up to full-time [TS]

01:47:39 ◼   ► now I might be doing some of that from [TS]

01:47:40 ◼   ► home here and there which is not what I [TS]

01:47:42 ◼   ► usually did I usually pretty much only [TS]

01:47:44 ◼   ► worked in the office but it's a week [TS]

01:47:47 ◼   ► after next that I will be a real real [TS]

01:47:50 ◼   ► adult worker again and it's going fine [TS]

01:47:53 ◼   ► it's a pretty understanding job letting [TS]

01:47:55 ◼   ► you ease back into it I've never even [TS]

01:47:57 ◼   ► heard of a company doing that this is [TS]

01:47:58 ◼   ► the second time yeah like the last time [TS]

01:48:00 ◼   ► I took less time easing my way into it [TS]

01:48:03 ◼   ► and I also didn't take an unpaid leave [TS]

01:48:04 ◼   ► but they were fairly cool about it both [TS]

01:48:07 ◼   ► both the last job and this job so that's [TS]

01:48:09 ◼   ► good [TS]

01:48:10 ◼   ► that's pretty cool yeah that's I don't [TS]

01:48:13 ◼   ► think I've ever had a job that would [TS]

01:48:14 ◼   ► give me that usually and most of my jobs [TS]

01:48:17 ◼   ► I had trouble of taking vacation days [TS]

01:48:19 ◼   ► let alone like doing this yeah I mean [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► and to be fair I didn't as much asked is [TS]

01:48:24 ◼   ► said this is what I was planning to do [TS]

01:48:26 ◼   ► and waited for somebody to say no and [TS]

01:48:28 ◼   ► nobody said no and that that's been nice [TS]

01:48:31 ◼   ► and I mean the place I work it's it's [TS]

01:48:33 ◼   ► pretty no I was gonna say chill but I [TS]

01:48:35 ◼   ► sound like a tool I don't know it's very [TS]

01:48:38 ◼   ► relaxed and and it's I think in part [TS]

01:48:41 ◼   ► because it's not consulting like most of [TS]

01:48:43 ◼   ► the last few jobs I've had [TS]

01:48:45 ◼   ► there's a lot less urgency and it's kind [TS]

01:48:48 ◼   ► of okay if I'm gone that being said you [TS]

01:48:51 ◼   ► know my I'm easing back in terms of [TS]

01:48:53 ◼   ► hours worked I am not easing back in [TS]

01:48:55 ◼   ► terms of stress level and need for me to [TS]

01:48:58 ◼   ► be paying attention to things again the [TS]

01:49:02 ◼   ► staff that I work with is excellent but [TS]

01:49:04 ◼   ► at least on the iOS side but is very [TS]

01:49:07 ◼   ► young and that's not a bad thing at all [TS]

01:49:09 ◼   ► but that means that they've kind of been [TS]

01:49:12 ◼   ► queuing up a whole band a whole bunch of [TS]

01:49:14 ◼   ► questions to ask and and how do I do [TS]

01:49:16 ◼   ► this what should we do here what are we [TS]

01:49:18 ◼   ► gonna do about this other thing and and [TS]

01:49:21 ◼   ► so I have been in high demand in the [TS]

01:49:24 ◼   ► little bit of time I've been working [TS]

01:49:25 ◼   ► which is a good problem the elementary [TS]

01:49:27 ◼   ► school students what the hell is very [TS]

01:49:28 ◼   ► young man when you're one is one is she [TS]

01:49:32 ◼   ► started as an intern and is still in [TS]

01:49:34 ◼   ► school in his part-time so she is what [TS]

01:49:36 ◼   ► major version of pearl were they born [TS]

01:49:38 ◼   ► during it so are you at the stage now or [TS]

01:49:43 ◼   ► anyone in their twenties counts is very [TS]

01:49:44 ◼   ► young getting there I mean my birthday [TS]

01:49:47 ◼   ► Saturday for goodness sakes I'm turning [TS]

01:49:49 ◼   ► I'm getting old John gettin old hey I'll [TS]

01:49:51 ◼   ► be that old in a couple more months so [TS]

01:49:53 ◼   ► the 29 year olds at work are very young [TS]

01:49:56 ◼   ► no no one of the intern just turned 21 [TS]

01:49:59 ◼   ► at the end of last year she she was born [TS]

01:50:01 ◼   ► in 96 I guess which is bananas oh my god [TS]

01:50:05 ◼   ► she's younger than Weezer [TS]

01:50:06 ◼   ► yeah so so yeah so the the intern who is [TS]

01:50:12 ◼   ► now part-time was born in 96 and we just [TS]

01:50:14 ◼   ► hired a guy who I don't know how old he [TS]

01:50:18 ◼   ► is but I would guess 25 or less so and [TS]

01:50:22 ◼   ► that's that's the whole staff as me and [TS]

01:50:24 ◼   ► in these - well the whole i/os staff [TS]

01:50:26 ◼   ► that is it so it's me in these other two [TS]

01:50:28 ◼   ► so and they're great they really are [TS]

01:50:32 ◼   ► great and I'm really really lucky to [TS]

01:50:34 ◼   ► have them as my co-workers but they're [TS]

01:50:36 ◼   ► they're young and that's not a bad thing [TS]

01:50:37 ◼   ► it's just you know is the there are [TS]

01:50:40 ◼   ► things that you only get from being in [TS]

01:50:42 ◼   ► the trenches in any sort of code base B [TS]

01:50:45 ◼   ► it iOS or otherwise for a long time and [TS]

01:50:47 ◼   ► so I am the old man in every measurable [TS]

01:50:50 ◼   ► way and and that's just my life I need [TS]

01:50:53 ◼   ► to adjust you so here's a question do [TS]

01:50:55 ◼   ► you have anybody yet who is either so [TS]

01:50:58 ◼   ► young [TS]

01:50:58 ◼   ► or just so new to iOS programming that [TS]

01:51:02 ◼   ► they have no objective-c experience that [TS]

01:51:05 ◼   ► the only has 50 experience I'm trying to [TS]

01:51:07 ◼   ► think if the if the part-time person did [TS]

01:51:11 ◼   ► I think she had done some Objective C in [TS]

01:51:14 ◼   ► the past if I'm not mistaken but it was [TS]

01:51:15 ◼   ► a toss-up cuz I almost wonder like that [TS]

01:51:17 ◼   ► might make things easier right like if [TS]

01:51:19 ◼   ► you had if you if you have like if you [TS]

01:51:20 ◼   ► try to maintain an all Swift code base [TS]

01:51:22 ◼   ► or mostly Swift code base and you have [TS]

01:51:24 ◼   ► somebody who doesn't have any mental [TS]

01:51:27 ◼   ► baggage of Objective C that actually [TS]

01:51:29 ◼   ► might be a good thing right [TS]

01:51:30 ◼   ► I don't know I I totally understand [TS]

01:51:33 ◼   ► where you're coming from and I'm not at [TS]

01:51:35 ◼   ► all saying you're wrong I really don't [TS]

01:51:37 ◼   ► know because it's one of those things [TS]

01:51:38 ◼   ► like do you really need to understand [TS]

01:51:42 ◼   ► what a pointer is to be able to write [TS]

01:51:44 ◼   ► code today and I know you're both [TS]

01:51:45 ◼   ► probably gonna jump all over me but like [TS]

01:51:47 ◼   ► if you think about it on a surface level [TS]

01:51:49 ◼   ► in a lot of cases you don't really need [TS]

01:51:52 ◼   ► to know what a pointer is now I I [TS]

01:51:54 ◼   ► strongly believe that you do so that's [TS]

01:51:57 ◼   ► all I'm like um I'm presenting an [TS]

01:51:58 ◼   ► argument I don't actually believe in but [TS]

01:52:00 ◼   ► you could make an argument that you know [TS]

01:52:02 ◼   ► you don't totally need a pointer to [TS]

01:52:04 ◼   ► understand what what the concept of a [TS]

01:52:06 ◼   ► pointer is in order to be able to write [TS]

01:52:07 ◼   ► Swift yeah I would totally argue that [TS]

01:52:10 ◼   ► actually yeah and and I still think it's [TS]

01:52:12 ◼   ► important to understand what a pointer [TS]

01:52:14 ◼   ► is it's important to understand these [TS]

01:52:16 ◼   ► sorts of things and I think to some [TS]

01:52:18 ◼   ► degree you get a lot more of that from [TS]

01:52:20 ◼   ► objective-c and not only because you [TS]

01:52:21 ◼   ► have stupid asterisks everywhere but [TS]

01:52:24 ◼   ► what I'm what a meandering toward is I [TS]

01:52:26 ◼   ► think having an understanding of what [TS]

01:52:29 ◼   ► makes Objective C Objective C helps you [TS]

01:52:31 ◼   ► understand what makes cocoa and cocoa [TS]

01:52:33 ◼   ► touch cocoa into cocoa touch does that [TS]

01:52:36 ◼   ► make any sense at all yeah I can see [TS]

01:52:38 ◼   ► that although I I would also suggest [TS]

01:52:40 ◼   ► that like like I mean in my time working [TS]

01:52:43 ◼   ► around other programmers I was fortunate [TS]

01:52:46 ◼   ► enough that to usually work around [TS]

01:52:48 ◼   ► really smart people but not a hundred [TS]

01:52:51 ◼   ► percent of the time and and I was always [TS]

01:52:53 ◼   ► sometimes really surprised how little [TS]

01:52:57 ◼   ► somebody could know about programming [TS]

01:52:59 ◼   ► and be working full-time as a programmer [TS]

01:53:01 ◼   ► oh yeah and I think and I'm not saying [TS]

01:53:03 ◼   ► this till I say like oh they're so dumb [TS]

01:53:05 ◼   ► like that just there are a lot of [TS]

01:53:08 ◼   ► programming jobs out there [TS]

01:53:11 ◼   ► that are pretty forgiving of having a [TS]

01:53:13 ◼   ► very shallow understanding of it or [TS]

01:53:15 ◼   ► pretty forgiving of bad coding or [TS]

01:53:17 ◼   ► mistakes or a leaking memory or things [TS]

01:53:19 ◼   ► like that Len and iOS is a huge sample [TS]

01:53:21 ◼   ► that like you know the when the App [TS]

01:53:22 ◼   ► Store was this huge explosion gold rush [TS]

01:53:25 ◼   ► thing back you know ten years ago and [TS]

01:53:28 ◼   ► you know in the interviewing year since [TS]

01:53:29 ◼   ► like a lot of people learned objective-c [TS]

01:53:33 ◼   ► just enough to get an app out there and [TS]

01:53:36 ◼   ► just like kind of stumbling through and [TS]

01:53:38 ◼   ► I mean heck that was basically me when I [TS]

01:53:40 ◼   ► first started to and I mean I had to see [TS]

01:53:42 ◼   ► background so I knew I knew that kind of [TS]

01:53:43 ◼   ► stuff but like there was a lot of people [TS]

01:53:46 ◼   ► who start knowing a lot less and can get [TS]

01:53:48 ◼   ► an app in the store because if they [TS]

01:53:50 ◼   ► leave memory all over the place it [TS]

01:53:52 ◼   ► doesn't matter at the scale they are or [TS]

01:53:54 ◼   ► like you know like if their app gets [TS]

01:53:55 ◼   ► kicked out of the background cuz it [TS]

01:53:56 ◼   ► crashes in the background you don't even [TS]

01:53:58 ◼   ► notice you launch it again and there it [TS]

01:53:59 ◼   ► is especially it's actually yeah it's [TS]

01:54:02 ◼   ► actually a fairly forgiving environment [TS]

01:54:05 ◼   ► and and the tools now protect you so [TS]

01:54:09 ◼   ► much from doing things that are too [TS]

01:54:10 ◼   ► horrible that you can actually get by [TS]

01:54:13 ◼   ► pretty far without having knowledge of [TS]

01:54:16 ◼   ► things like pointers and memory and [TS]

01:54:17 ◼   ► stuff like that yeah so and it's also [TS]

01:54:20 ◼   ► you know to some degree like what what [TS]

01:54:22 ◼   ► level are you hiring right like when we [TS]

01:54:24 ◼   ► hired our newest developer you know we [TS]

01:54:27 ◼   ► were hiring somebody we were intending [TS]

01:54:29 ◼   ► to hire someone that was a bit junior [TS]

01:54:31 ◼   ► and and so I don't recall how this went [TS]

01:54:34 ◼   ► during his interview I did interview him [TS]

01:54:36 ◼   ► but like I [TS]

01:54:37 ◼   ► I'm sure asked him you know what's a [TS]

01:54:38 ◼   ► retain cycle how do you create it why [TS]

01:54:40 ◼   ► would you well how would you [TS]

01:54:41 ◼   ► accidentally create it and you know how [TS]

01:54:42 ◼   ► would you find it how would you fix it [TS]

01:54:44 ◼   ► and if I'm hiring a junior developer [TS]

01:54:47 ◼   ► they can get that wrong and I [TS]

01:54:48 ◼   ► potentially would be okay with it like [TS]

01:54:51 ◼   ► you know I would hope that they would at [TS]

01:54:52 ◼   ► least somewhat understand what I'm [TS]

01:54:53 ◼   ► talking about but they can have a wrong [TS]

01:54:56 ◼   ► answer and as long as they have a vague [TS]

01:54:57 ◼   ► understanding and I feel like they're [TS]

01:54:59 ◼   ► coachable and which is a very corporate [TS]

01:55:01 ◼   ► thing to say well yeah exactly we can [TS]

01:55:05 ◼   ► have a coaching opportunity in the [TS]

01:55:06 ◼   ► parking lot after we stand up all right [TS]

01:55:08 ◼   ► you say you have worked with me you see [TS]

01:55:13 ◼   ► what I'm driving at like I I don't think [TS]

01:55:15 ◼   ► that that beings I'm agreeing with you [TS]

01:55:18 ◼   ► and roundabout way you know I don't [TS]

01:55:19 ◼   ► think being super experienced and having [TS]

01:55:21 ◼   ► a deep deep deep knowledge of like the [TS]

01:55:23 ◼   ► history of objective-c and [TS]

01:55:24 ◼   ► and why is message-passing different [TS]

01:55:26 ◼   ► than calling a method you know why is [TS]

01:55:29 ◼   ► well I don't think you need all of that [TS]

01:55:30 ◼   ► but I do know it is fair enough but I do [TS]

01:55:34 ◼   ► think it is assistive in understanding [TS]

01:55:36 ◼   ► like I said earlier you know what makes [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► what makes Coco the way it is it's [TS]

01:55:40 ◼   ► because it's it's in large ways because [TS]

01:55:43 ◼   ► of what made Objective C what it is and [TS]

01:55:45 ◼   ► I don't I don't think it's necessary [TS]

01:55:49 ◼   ► what is the thing that's it's necessary [TS]

01:55:52 ◼   ► but not sufficient provided I screwed [TS]

01:55:53 ◼   ► that up didn't I sufficient but not [TS]

01:55:54 ◼   ► necessary you get what I'm driving at is [TS]

01:55:55 ◼   ► it sufficient but not necessary [TS]

01:55:57 ◼   ► that's what Johnson always says yeah [TS]

01:55:58 ◼   ► totally but anyway so the point is that [TS]

01:56:03 ◼   ► you know it's it's useful to have but [TS]

01:56:04 ◼   ► would not require John given very quiet [TS]

01:56:07 ◼   ► any thoughts about this this is a [TS]

01:56:09 ◼   ► specific instance of the more general [TS]

01:56:13 ◼   ► question of whether not whether you [TS]

01:56:17 ◼   ► should have but what the value is of [TS]

01:56:19 ◼   ► having a background in the fundamentals [TS]

01:56:22 ◼   ► when it comes to the everyday craft of [TS]

01:56:25 ◼   ► doing a thing like so can I do a [TS]

01:56:28 ◼   ► particular task without knowing the [TS]

01:56:33 ◼   ► history cultural baggage and all the [TS]

01:56:36 ◼   ► other lower levels of abstraction that [TS]

01:56:38 ◼   ► I'm building upon the answer is yes you [TS]

01:56:39 ◼   ► can you can be a craftsman at a higher [TS]

01:56:41 ◼   ► level of abstraction without knowledge [TS]

01:56:43 ◼   ► of detailed knowledge of history and [TS]

01:56:45 ◼   ► culture and all the lower layers but [TS]

01:56:48 ◼   ► there is most certainly value in knowing [TS]

01:56:52 ◼   ► all that stuff I mean you could take it [TS]