The Accidental Tech Podcast

262: A Clear Path to Okayness


00:00:00   John how are you let's lighten the mood [TS]

00:00:01   how's things going with you John I'm [TS]

00:00:03   tired I'm exhausted you guys are making [TS]

00:00:05   any more exhaustion I seem to have [TS]

00:00:10   become the authority on not seeing easy [TS]

00:00:14   solutions to my problems so if somebody [TS]

00:00:18   didn't tell you about our sink now I [TS]

00:00:20   have heard about our sink and I actually [TS]

00:00:22   have used it for years literally years [TS]

00:00:24   but that's not the issue um I've been [TS]

00:00:27   working on an app that I don't [TS]

00:00:28   particularly want to talk about these [TS]

00:00:29   specifics on the show but suffice to say [TS]

00:00:32   it relates to health kit which already [TS]

00:00:34   means I'm kind of treading on [TS]

00:00:35   underscores waters actually but whatever [TS]

00:00:37   so I asked him you know hey is there any [TS]

00:00:41   way to export health kit data and bring [TS]

00:00:45   it into the simulator because I prefer [TS]

00:00:47   to do most of my development against [TS]

00:00:48   simulator because it's quicker and [TS]

00:00:49   easier so I need a whole bunch of health [TS]

00:00:51   get data on on the simulator and I was [TS]

00:00:54   like man is there any way to export it [TS]

00:00:55   then like important places there's [TS]

00:00:57   somewhere on the file system or [TS]

00:00:58   something like that that I can do this [TS]

00:01:00   and in in the most polite way which is [TS]

00:01:03   underscores you know mo in the most [TS]

00:01:05   polite way he said to me these are my [TS]

00:01:07   words mind you you freaking idiot you [TS]

00:01:09   can get on iCloud on the simulator just [TS]

00:01:12   join your accounts on iCloud I don't [TS]

00:01:15   know you could do that you'll see but I [TS]

00:01:17   did know that you could do that but I [TS]

00:01:19   didn't put two and two together but this [TS]

00:01:20   is where it gets real bad and I [TS]

00:01:21   shouldn't share this publicly but here I [TS]

00:01:22   am he said I said to him but underscore [TS]

00:01:26   here's the thing I want to be able to [TS]

00:01:28   like save things to health kit but I [TS]

00:01:30   don't want them to actually save too you [TS]

00:01:33   know like the canonical instance of [TS]

00:01:35   health kids so in other words if I save [TS]

00:01:37   I don't know like in at like a workout [TS]

00:01:39   which is not actually what this app does [TS]

00:01:41   but for the sake of conversation I save [TS]

00:01:42   a workout I don't want it to go to like [TS]

00:01:44   my actual canonical health kit I don't [TS]

00:01:48   know identity for lack of a better word [TS]

00:01:50   a repository I want that to kind of just [TS]

00:01:52   live alone on the simulator so without [TS]

00:01:54   batting an eye underscore says so sign [TS]

00:01:57   out of iCloud like two weeks away from [TS]

00:02:05   having an arm full of Apple watches like [TS]

00:02:07   underscore does you know this is such [TS]

00:02:11   easy solution why do I not see these [TS]

00:02:13   things I maybe I'm just a really crummy [TS]

00:02:15   developer and I don't realize it but uh [TS]

00:02:18   golly like I don't think I'm an [TS]

00:02:19   exceptionally great developer but I [TS]

00:02:20   didn't think I was that bad of a [TS]

00:02:22   developer why don't why don't I see [TS]

00:02:24   these things why can't I why can't i [TS]

00:02:25   recognize this [TS]

00:02:26   so everyone hire KC for your development [TS]

00:02:28   [Laughter] [TS]

00:02:31   that's the trick that's the ticket right [TS]

00:02:34   there you really do a good job at [TS]

00:02:35   selling yourself this is why I don't [TS]

00:02:37   want to this is why I don't want to be [TS]

00:02:38   an independent consultant I love that [TS]

00:02:41   you you keep I heard your episode of [TS]

00:02:43   analog it was very good last episode of [TS]

00:02:45   analog where Mike talk to you through a [TS]

00:02:47   lot of this stuff which I highly suggest [TS]

00:02:48   anyway everybody listen to just because [TS]

00:02:51   it's a good show to begin with but also [TS]

00:02:52   if you're interested in our arc of [TS]

00:02:54   trying to convince Casey to you know go [TS]

00:02:56   out on his own somehow it was a very [TS]

00:02:58   good episode and and and I think and we [TS]

00:03:01   even got we got this like two thousand [TS]

00:03:02   word email that it does seem like your [TS]

00:03:07   heart is not really in consulting like [TS]

00:03:08   it does seem like you don't really care [TS]

00:03:10   to do it right and that's the thing [TS]

00:03:11   that's the thing then you know fine I'm [TS]

00:03:14   not gonna I'm not gonna push that [TS]

00:03:15   anymore because to do anything like that [TS]

00:03:18   you have to you have to be a little more [TS]

00:03:20   into it then than what you are so that's [TS]

00:03:22   what I'm not gonna happen so okay I'll [TS]

00:03:24   stop pushing that button I do however [TS]

00:03:26   think it's hilarious that you keep [TS]

00:03:28   trying to trade in these like these ways [TS]

00:03:30   that you can immediately get a lot of [TS]

00:03:31   money for things that take like years to [TS]

00:03:34   build up to a livable wage like I think [TS]

00:03:36   I'm gonna start a YouTube app and making [TS]

00:03:38   small indie apps or YouTube channel [TS]

00:03:42   rather excuse me yeah that's indie [TS]

00:03:43   success right there guaranteed everyone [TS]

00:03:46   is making money hand over fist in the [TS]

00:03:48   App Store on YouTube there's no way for [TS]

00:03:51   this to be for this to be a disaster [TS]

00:03:52   right here's what you do you get five [TS]

00:03:54   envelopes in each one you put $5 you [TS]

00:03:56   mail the top two to these people then [TS]

00:03:58   you mail it a whole buncha letter so [TS]

00:03:59   it's like it's like this like like if [TS]

00:04:03   you started doing these things ten years [TS]

00:04:05   ago you might now have enough to live on [TS]

00:04:07   exactly these are slow slow buildings [TS]

00:04:10   slow like it takes a while [TS]

00:04:12   [Laughter] [TS]

00:04:14   that's so true I don't know I don't know [TS]

00:04:17   I have been waffling about this Erin and [TS]

00:04:19   I have been talking a lot about this and [TS]

00:04:21   and I I not in [TS]

00:04:23   in an angry way like I'm not upset about [TS]

00:04:24   it at all but I'm I I don't want to talk [TS]

00:04:26   about anymore at this particular moment [TS]

00:04:28   because I feel like all I've been doing [TS]

00:04:29   stressing about it for the last month [TS]

00:04:30   and a half but I have such conflicted [TS]

00:04:33   and mixed thoughts that I don't know [TS]

00:04:36   what to do and it's like you know I [TS]

00:04:38   think your your assessment is accurate [TS]

00:04:41   that the idea of just $10.99 in my way [TS]

00:04:43   through life that is to say being an [TS]

00:04:45   independent consultant like there are [TS]

00:04:48   ways in which I think that would be fun [TS]

00:04:49   like let's say for the sake of [TS]

00:04:51   discussion I can I can wave my magic [TS]

00:04:52   wand and I can have you give me [TS]

00:04:56   I don't know between 5 and 10 hours of [TS]

00:04:57   work a week I can have underscore give [TS]

00:04:59   me 5 to 10 hours of work a week I can [TS]

00:05:01   have some of my other independent you [TS]

00:05:03   know app developers like you know jelly [TS]

00:05:05   who works on gift-wrapped which if you [TS]

00:05:06   believe in animated gifs at all you [TS]

00:05:08   should have or you know Curtis who works [TS]

00:05:10   on slopes as another example which if [TS]

00:05:12   you believe in skiing or snowboarding [TS]

00:05:13   you should have that app you know if any [TS]

00:05:16   of these people if all of you guys an [TS]

00:05:18   underscore of course you know if you [TS]

00:05:19   guys could each you know shave off 5 to [TS]

00:05:22   10 hours each then then I could probably [TS]

00:05:24   make a living but the idea of just like [TS]

00:05:26   going out and chasing random people for [TS]

00:05:28   work and random businesses for work it's [TS]

00:05:29   just just the thought of is it it is [TS]

00:05:31   extremely tiring and that's not to say [TS]

00:05:34   that that's bad or wrong or anything [TS]

00:05:36   else it's just I don't see your point [TS]

00:05:38   Marco I don't think my heart is in [TS]

00:05:40   chasing chasing work from random people [TS]

00:05:42   and and I mean that in a nasty way just [TS]

00:05:45   in in in an observational way so well I [TS]

00:05:47   do wonder though I think the the part of [TS]

00:05:49   that of the 2,000 word email that we got [TS]

00:05:52   that was mostly a little bit off-putting [TS]

00:05:54   but the part of it I thought was was [TS]

00:05:56   interesting and potentially a good path [TS]

00:05:58   to consider is the part where the author [TS]

00:06:01   says that you know clearly your heart's [TS]

00:06:03   not in consulting which I think was true [TS]

00:06:05   but that maybe you should consider being [TS]

00:06:09   like the Swift person like yes and who [TS]

00:06:12   has been a lot of instructional Swift [TS]

00:06:14   content like you know granted that's a [TS]

00:06:16   very crowded market there's a lot of [TS]

00:06:17   people who have been doing a lot of [TS]

00:06:18   instructional Swift content for a long [TS]

00:06:20   time [TS]

00:06:21   but you also already have an existing [TS]

00:06:24   audience of developers which is pretty [TS]

00:06:26   good like that's that's a pretty good [TS]

00:06:28   advantage to start with and and so you [TS]

00:06:30   do have a bit of an unfair advantage [TS]

00:06:31   there which you can used you know to [TS]

00:06:34   your advantage the other thing I would [TS]

00:06:35   say is [TS]

00:06:37   if it when when talking about like you [TS]

00:06:39   know who you could get consulting work [TS]

00:06:40   from don't do like me and underscore and [TS]

00:06:44   Curtis like we're all indie developers [TS]

00:06:46   working on indie budgets like yeah I [TS]

00:06:48   know it's like we're the worst people to [TS]

00:06:50   have trying to get consulting work for [TS]

00:06:51   because we can barely afford employees [TS]

00:06:54   like I think Margaret has pre fired you [TS]

00:06:56   I thought I might give him some hours if [TS]

00:06:59   he did this but like but you know I I'm [TS]

00:07:02   in a position that most in these are not [TS]

00:07:03   and and even I you know I couldn't [TS]

00:07:05   afford you full time although okay can I [TS]

00:07:08   just say publicly that it may be worth [TS]

00:07:12   maybe not the money but worth the [TS]

00:07:14   experience for both of us [TS]

00:07:16   to watch me have to slum it an [TS]

00:07:18   objective-c land and watch you have to [TS]

00:07:20   slum it and deal with an employee like [TS]

00:07:21   that would be hilarious on many [TS]

00:07:24   different levels the really interesting [TS]

00:07:26   reality show it would be the least [TS]

00:07:30   interesting but perhaps most funny cards [TS]

00:07:32   against humanity' to sponsor yeah right [TS]

00:07:35   but seriously like you don't let me [TS]

00:07:38   speak for you but I have the feeling [TS]

00:07:40   like even with me and I like to think I [TS]

00:07:42   get a little bit of special privilege [TS]

00:07:43   here you have no interest in having [TS]

00:07:45   anyone as like an employee in any [TS]

00:07:48   capacity and although I don't have any [TS]

00:07:50   real angst against Objective C I have [TS]

00:07:53   let's say I feel like it's a little bit [TS]

00:07:55   old and a little bit tired I mean that's [TS]

00:07:57   what could be said for all of us right [TS]

00:07:59   well that that's fair you do bad you'd [TS]

00:08:05   like you you send me off to work on some [TS]

00:08:06   bug fix and I like rewrite an entire [TS]

00:08:08   class and Swift and try to pass that by [TS]

00:08:10   I wouldn't do that for several different [TS]

00:08:11   reasons but just was take a discussion [TS]

00:08:13   like I write this entire class I rewrite [TS]

00:08:14   the entire class and Swift like here you [TS]

00:08:16   go here you go Marco this is good right [TS]

00:08:17   you just look at this not like what [TS]

00:08:19   I could just settle all this money on [TS]

00:08:22   fire by making you write unit tests well [TS]

00:08:25   I don't know if it on fire I almost [TS]

00:08:27   walked into that you bastard you're more [TS]

00:08:32   right than you are wrong you big jerk we [TS]

00:08:36   should get started [TS]

00:08:37   slash continue with talking about how [TS]

00:08:39   Siri is all up in front of the show [TS]

00:08:42   Daniel jelq it's business so who who [TS]

00:08:44   added this the show notes can tell me [TS]

00:08:46   what's going on I added the [TS]

00:08:48   here's the first account I read of I [TS]

00:08:50   think a story that I've heard from a lot [TS]

00:08:52   of people now as he relates to home pod [TS]

00:08:53   it's that you've got this thing in your [TS]

00:08:56   house and unfortunately it has the same [TS]

00:08:59   trigger phrase as a bunch of other [TS]

00:09:00   things that you might also have in your [TS]

00:09:03   house so once you get past the you know [TS]

00:09:06   being amazed that it can hear you over [TS]

00:09:08   the odd music or whatever and you just [TS]

00:09:09   happen to be in your house and you talk [TS]

00:09:11   to some device that may or may not be [TS]

00:09:13   your home pod and your home pod decides [TS]

00:09:16   oh I can totally hear you and I'm gonna [TS]

00:09:19   take this for you hang on I got it and [TS]

00:09:21   Apple has this thing where if multiple [TS]

00:09:24   devices are around and you say the [TS]

00:09:25   trigger word they negotiate amongst each [TS]

00:09:27   other to figure out who's gonna answer [TS]

00:09:28   but home pod will grab a request that it [TS]

00:09:33   can't handle just to tell you that it [TS]

00:09:36   can't do that all right so that it would [TS]

00:09:38   have worked if it was on your phone but [TS]

00:09:40   home pods grabs it maybe because it has [TS]

00:09:42   better microphones or because it like it [TS]

00:09:44   takes priority or whatever and then it [TS]

00:09:45   grabs it and says oh yeah no I totally [TS]

00:09:47   can't do that sorry about that so that's [TS]

00:09:50   not that's not nice behavior and a lot [TS]

00:09:52   of people have complained about that and [TS]

00:09:53   it's kind of another situation where [TS]

00:09:55   apples had a few of these where like [TS]

00:09:57   their best customers are more likely to [TS]

00:10:02   run into these complex problems right [TS]

00:10:05   Apple wants you to have a household of [TS]

00:10:07   Apple devices you got Macs and iPads and [TS]

00:10:08   phones and everybody should have one and [TS]

00:10:10   they should be all over the place and [TS]

00:10:11   yet if you do that you run into all the [TS]

00:10:14   situations in which apple doesn't handle [TS]

00:10:15   a houseful of devices we've talked [TS]

00:10:17   before about the you know families [TS]

00:10:19   sharing you know iCloud and photos [TS]

00:10:22   accounts you know the before the family [TS]

00:10:25   plans for iCloud storage existed before [TS]

00:10:27   was a while before Siri could understand [TS]

00:10:30   different people and you had to do the [TS]

00:10:31   training and everything so now can [TS]

00:10:33   distinguish voices well here's another [TS]

00:10:34   growing pane of the multi Apple device [TS]

00:10:38   lifestyle if you've got multiple things [TS]

00:10:40   in your house listening for the same [TS]

00:10:41   trigger phrase it's great that they [TS]

00:10:42   didn't go she ate with each other it's [TS]

00:10:43   not so great that the negotiation [TS]

00:10:45   results in the worst possible device [TS]

00:10:48   answering your question I mean the funny [TS]

00:10:50   thing is like in many ways it's actually [TS]

00:10:52   rewards you if you're a person who has [TS]

00:10:54   not gotten into the hey Siri ecosystem [TS]

00:10:56   like if you like like me like I I don't [TS]

00:10:58   leave it on my phones I tried [TS]

00:11:01   because I have like my iPad that just [TS]

00:11:02   sits in the kitchen all day for the most [TS]

00:11:04   part and I figured like maybe I could [TS]

00:11:06   use that the way I use the Amazon echo [TS]

00:11:08   like maybe I could set timers and stuff [TS]

00:11:09   using using hey Siri on the iPad and [TS]

00:11:11   I've tried that and it's terrible so I'd [TS]

00:11:13   never do it but oh crap my development [TS]

00:11:17   phones why you saying it see how nicely [TS]

00:11:21   I said trigger phrase like 9 times so [TS]

00:11:23   you're just rattling on them off and now [TS]

00:11:24   you're being punished no the rule is if [TS]

00:11:26   Phil Schiller can go on the talk show [TS]

00:11:27   and say hey Siri in front of everybody [TS]

00:11:28   have it not have nothing go off then I [TS]

00:11:30   can do it on on a podcast but he's got a [TS]

00:11:32   computerized chip in his throat that [TS]

00:11:33   masks and says if Isis won't pick it up [TS]

00:11:35   yeah like the Amazon echo ads in the [TS]

00:11:38   Superbowl by the way that's that Amazon [TS]

00:11:40   echo method where you cut out the 3 [TS]

00:11:41   kilohertz thing I played with that I [TS]

00:11:42   could not reproduce that I could not get [TS]

00:11:44   that to actually work and that post was [TS]

00:11:46   like a year old so I'm guessing it's [TS]

00:11:47   it's not did you see that I tweeted [TS]

00:11:49   something there's some paper about how [TS]

00:11:50   you can make basically any spoken phrase [TS]

00:11:52   be interpreted by speech recognition [TS]

00:11:54   engine as any other phrase that you want [TS]

00:11:57   you have to know the details of the [TS]

00:11:59   recognition engine but of course Amazon [TS]

00:12:00   does know the details it's pretty neat [TS]

00:12:02   it does you can notice that it's been [TS]

00:12:03   modified like there's noise added but [TS]

00:12:05   it's fascinating and terrifying that you [TS]

00:12:07   can have the audio say anything you want [TS]

00:12:09   and have the transcription say an [TS]

00:12:10   entirely different phrase yeah yeah [TS]

00:12:12   anyway so the point is like if you are a [TS]

00:12:14   a home pod person you actually have a [TS]

00:12:17   pretty good reason right now to disable [TS]

00:12:19   the hey dingus feature on as many [TS]

00:12:22   devices you can get away with it because [TS]

00:12:24   it's like like if you don't end up using [TS]

00:12:26   that much like if you're if you're [TS]

00:12:27   willing to just hit the button on things [TS]

00:12:29   you're way better off having that often [TS]

00:12:31   lots of devices because that way you [TS]

00:12:32   won't have this problem where the home [TS]

00:12:34   pod grabs it when it's actually not the [TS]

00:12:36   device that either you want or that even [TS]

00:12:38   can handle the requestor giving it could [TS]

00:12:41   add a good story to it he was using he [TS]

00:12:43   was timers for like a midday meditation [TS]

00:12:45   and the home pod grabbed the you know [TS]

00:12:47   please set a timer for whatever we're [TS]

00:12:49   just fine you know whatever and you can [TS]

00:12:50   set a timer for me but unlike the device [TS]

00:12:53   Cindy normally that he was trying to [TS]

00:12:55   talk to his his watch they're like taps [TS]

00:12:56   you when like your time is up [TS]

00:12:58   then the home pod would speak out loud [TS]

00:13:01   about setting the timer and about one a [TS]

00:13:03   time one offer really kind of harsh your [TS]

00:13:05   mellow when you're trying to meditate so [TS]

00:13:07   yeah that's the intentionality of what [TS]

00:13:10   you want like if you talk to your wrist [TS]

00:13:12   despite the fact that the home pod can [TS]

00:13:14   you just fine and like quote-unquote [TS]

00:13:15   wins the contest and it can support [TS]

00:13:17   timers it doesn't understand that you [TS]

00:13:20   were talking to your wrist anyone [TS]

00:13:21   looking at you would know you were [TS]

00:13:22   talking to your wrist because they'd see [TS]

00:13:23   you doing that but the home pod can't [TS]

00:13:25   see you maybe just needs cameras Wow but [TS]

00:13:29   on a happier note tell us about the [TS]

00:13:31   Sonos and wood furniture that's not [TS]

00:13:33   happy it's sad but yeah so no said I'm [TS]

00:13:37   sure lots of other audio and non audio [TS]

00:13:39   products that have the same feet made of [TS]

00:13:42   the same or similar material that like [TS]

00:13:44   soaks up the oil from the wood and [TS]

00:13:46   everything can also leave marks and I [TS]

00:13:49   think that's terrible I think that you [TS]

00:13:51   know again I said on a live show I [TS]

00:13:53   understand that it's important to have [TS]

00:13:54   something vibration absorbing down there [TS]

00:13:56   for audio performance but I have to [TS]

00:13:58   believe there is some substance on the [TS]

00:14:00   planet that is both squishy and does not [TS]

00:14:03   absorb oil from wood furniture leaving [TS]

00:14:06   rings or marks of any kind so shame on [TS]

00:14:08   Sonos shame on Apple and I believe we [TS]

00:14:11   have a technology to solve this we were [TS]

00:14:14   sponsored this week by simple contacts [TS]

00:14:17   go to simple contacts comm slash ATP and [TS]

00:14:19   use code ATP for $30 off your lenses [TS]

00:14:22   simple contacts is a convenient way to [TS]

00:14:24   renew your contact lens prescription and [TS]

00:14:26   reorder your contacts from anywhere in [TS]

00:14:29   minutes you take a five minute vision [TS]

00:14:31   test from your phone or computer [TS]

00:14:32   it gets carefully reviewed by a licensed [TS]

00:14:34   doctor you receive every nude [TS]

00:14:36   prescription then you order your brand [TS]

00:14:38   of lenses it's that easy they have all [TS]

00:14:40   the brands you're familiar with at great [TS]

00:14:41   prices making Vision Care simple [TS]

00:14:44   accessible and affordable with simple [TS]

00:14:46   contacts you never have to leave home to [TS]

00:14:48   get your prescription and renewed or to [TS]

00:14:50   order more contacts there's no more [TS]

00:14:52   doctor's offices or waiting rooms and [TS]

00:14:54   it's fast their vision test is [TS]

00:14:57   self-guided and it takes less than five [TS]

00:14:59   minutes this is way faster than even [TS]

00:15:01   just making the appointments some where [TS]

00:15:02   simple contacts test uses your camera [TS]

00:15:05   and microphone to capture the same [TS]

00:15:07   information as an office visit and then [TS]

00:15:09   a licensed ophthalmologist reviews every [TS]

00:15:11   exam carefully to make sure your eyes [TS]

00:15:13   look healthy and that your vision hasn't [TS]

00:15:15   changed from your prior prescription [TS]

00:15:16   although this is not a replacement for [TS]

00:15:18   your periodic full eye health exam [TS]

00:15:21   simple contacts offers all the brands of [TS]

00:15:23   lenses you're familiar with including [TS]

00:15:24   options for stigmatism multifocal lenses [TS]

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00:15:28   and more the exam is only 20 bucks this [TS]

00:15:31   is much cheaper than a typical eye [TS]

00:15:32   doctor appointment standard shipping is [TS]

00:15:34   free on the contacts you order and the [TS]

00:15:36   contacts are priced very competitively [TS]

00:15:38   so check out simple contacts today to [TS]

00:15:40   renew your prescription and reorder your [TS]

00:15:42   contact lenses in minutes from anywhere [TS]

00:15:44   at simple contacts calm / ATP and inter [TS]

00:15:48   code ATP a check out to get $30 off your [TS]

00:15:51   lenses that's simple contacts comm / ATP [TS]

00:15:54   code ATP for $30 off thank you so much [TS]

00:15:57   to simple contact for sponsoring our [TS]

00:15:59   show where's the home pod because I know [TS]

00:16:04   I don't and that's a no small part [TS]

00:16:06   because I friggin hate Siri Marco I do [TS]

00:16:08   not although that's in partially small [TS]

00:16:11   part because I've been traveling so I [TS]

00:16:12   wasn't actually anywhere where I could [TS]

00:16:14   buy one I have still thought about maybe [TS]

00:16:16   put it on the counter one day I want to [TS]

00:16:18   know actually I was thinking like [TS]

00:16:20   because I know like some of our friends [TS]

00:16:21   like Merlin are very positive about the [TS]

00:16:24   echo is that the spot the little [TS]

00:16:27   circular one I think that's right yeah I [TS]

00:16:29   was I was wondering maybe I could try [TS]

00:16:31   one of those because the one the one [TS]

00:16:32   reason I got the echo show for a day and [TS]

00:16:36   then returned it promptly was that I [TS]

00:16:37   really would like to see the progress of [TS]

00:16:39   the timer's counting down while cooking [TS]

00:16:41   you know right now I could just I just [TS]

00:16:44   asked the echo hey timer status but it's [TS]

00:16:46   you know ideally I could watch them or [TS]

00:16:48   see them you know without having to ask [TS]

00:16:51   something have it hear it over the fan [TS]

00:16:52   on the stove and then you know so anyway [TS]

00:16:55   so I was thinking maybe I could get an [TS]

00:16:57   echo spot put it on the little counter [TS]

00:16:59   right next to where we cook and then [TS]

00:17:01   have the home pod on like the kind of [TS]

00:17:05   like transitional counter to the big [TS]

00:17:07   great room and dining room area where [TS]

00:17:09   that's where the music should come from [TS]

00:17:10   so I thought about that but I don't know [TS]

00:17:12   I still I still think I want to wait it [TS]

00:17:16   just seems like there's so many like 1.0 [TS]

00:17:18   limitations and little annoyances here [TS]

00:17:20   and there that people are having and [TS]

00:17:22   also I got I'm not that hot on Siri so I [TS]

00:17:26   think I'm gonna wait a little bit or [TS]

00:17:28   until I have a really good reason for [TS]

00:17:30   overcast development oh we can hope we [TS]

00:17:33   can hope how about you John I actually [TS]

00:17:36   got something for Marco mark it on your [TS]

00:17:38   calendar [TS]

00:17:39   you got the whole [TS]

00:17:40   got a home pod yeah just one just one uh [TS]

00:17:44   which actually more than one would have [TS]

00:17:47   been cool but anyway I did I I knew I [TS]

00:17:49   had a place for it because I don't I put [TS]

00:17:51   it in the same room that I have my [TS]

00:17:52   Google home Mini which I got for free as [TS]

00:17:55   part of some other purchase and of [TS]

00:17:56   course you did never one play audio on [TS]

00:17:57   all right so there's competition for it [TS]

00:18:00   in terms of answering questions and in [TS]

00:18:02   general I think I'll probably still ask [TS]

00:18:05   questions to the Google home mini mostly [TS]

00:18:07   about who stars in movies that I'm [TS]

00:18:09   watching on television well I'm watching [TS]

00:18:11   them and yes I know that lots of [TS]

00:18:12   applications on Apple TV can do that for [TS]

00:18:16   you [TS]

00:18:17   some of them like I think the Amazon [TS]

00:18:18   won't even if you just pause it will [TS]

00:18:20   show you like who's on screen right now [TS]

00:18:21   so be aware of that but but anyway I [TS]

00:18:24   find myself asking questions of the [TS]

00:18:26   Google home mostly because force of [TS]

00:18:30   habit [TS]

00:18:31   but I don't really have anything in that [TS]

00:18:33   room that can play good audio that is [TS]

00:18:37   always on I do have [TS]

00:18:39   okay speakers attached to my TV but [TS]

00:18:41   usually that whole receiver and [TS]

00:18:42   everything is off when someone's not [TS]

00:18:43   watching TV so it's nice to have [TS]

00:18:46   something in there that you know it [TS]

00:18:49   sounds okay and that I can both speak to [TS]

00:18:52   to make it play something and in a pinch [TS]

00:18:54   airplay too so I subscribe to Apple [TS]

00:18:56   music I tried to do like some family [TS]

00:18:58   trial thing or whatever I still assume I [TS]

00:18:59   will unsubscribe eventually but I wanted [TS]

00:19:02   to give it a fair shot to say I want to [TS]

00:19:03   be able to just speak to the air and [TS]

00:19:05   have it play music and it sounds pretty [TS]

00:19:08   good [TS]

00:19:08   no I didn't put it on the coaster it is [TS]

00:19:10   sitting on top of my furniture but I [TS]

00:19:12   don't have any nice furniture in my life [TS]

00:19:14   period so I don't have to worry about it [TS]

00:19:17   let me see like my dining room tables [TS]

00:19:20   okay but anyway I don't have a nice [TS]

00:19:22   furniture for the most part so I don't [TS]

00:19:23   have to worry about it leaving rings [TS]

00:19:24   it's sitting on top of what I assume is [TS]

00:19:26   a computer printed photograph of wood [TS]

00:19:29   you know transferred onto some kind of [TS]

00:19:31   aluminum powder cover with the plastic [TS]

00:19:33   dust crappy piece of furniture that I [TS]

00:19:37   have I tried it in a bunch of different [TS]

00:19:39   positions to see how it would adjust its [TS]

00:19:41   sound [TS]

00:19:42   couldn't tell much of a difference you [TS]

00:19:45   know [TS]

00:19:46   I couldn't tell whether it was just [TS]

00:19:48   thing it's sound or whether just sound [TS]

00:19:49   different because it was in a different [TS]

00:19:50   place I do have a kind of near a corner [TS]

00:19:52   which i think is not great for Bumi [TS]

00:19:54   but I really it's really the best place [TS]

00:19:56   I have for the thing I got white mostly [TS]

00:20:00   because I couldn't decide and so I asked [TS]

00:20:01   my son he picked white which I think is [TS]

00:20:03   a reasonable choice because all the [TS]

00:20:04   other things are white as well in terms [TS]

00:20:08   of filling the room with sound tell that [TS]

00:20:11   it's a point source like that's why I [TS]

00:20:13   mentioned I could get two of them might [TS]

00:20:14   be better even if it wasn't just stereo [TS]

00:20:17   like I can tell the sound is coming from [TS]

00:20:19   that part of the room but of course you [TS]

00:20:20   expected to be able to tell that like [TS]

00:20:22   it's not it's not magic but it is let's [TS]

00:20:25   put it this way it is less enveloping [TS]

00:20:27   than the 5.1 system that I have on my TV [TS]

00:20:30   and yeah I probably sounds better than [TS]

00:20:31   the 5.1 system but the 5.1 system [TS]

00:20:33   surrounds the room so when I play you [TS]

00:20:36   know find out actually open those times [TS]

00:20:38   I play music like during Christmas Eve [TS]

00:20:40   like Christmas music when you're like [TS]

00:20:41   decorating the tree or on Christmas Day [TS]

00:20:42   or whatever it's nice to have it come [TS]

00:20:44   from all around and maybe I'll still do [TS]

00:20:46   that but it's in the room I talked to it [TS]

00:20:49   my my like out of box experience was not [TS]

00:20:52   the greatest because you go and you set [TS]

00:20:54   up a thing it shows a little picture of [TS]

00:20:55   the home pod you like yes set up and you [TS]

00:20:57   know you go through the whole thing [TS]

00:20:59   everything seems fine and then you can [TS]

00:21:03   go to the home app to control the device [TS]

00:21:07   or to do something I know I'd never even [TS]

00:21:08   launched my life so I launched the whole [TS]

00:21:09   map and there's my home pod that I just [TS]

00:21:11   set up and just got a big red message on [TS]

00:21:13   it that says like not responding it was [TS]

00:21:15   like that for is like what do you mean [TS]

00:21:16   not responding the thing is right there [TS]

00:21:18   I'm talking to it it's working fine how [TS]

00:21:19   can you tell me it's not responding [TS]

00:21:21   eventually it started responding and I [TS]

00:21:24   saw you can tap on it to like pause the [TS]

00:21:25   music and tap again to unpause and write [TS]

00:21:27   whatever and then like 15 minutes later [TS]

00:21:30   launched the home application again to [TS]

00:21:32   try to pause it from a different room [TS]

00:21:33   and there was a little spinner on it [TS]

00:21:35   like the little dodd spinner and the [TS]

00:21:37   spinner just spun there and it just spun [TS]

00:21:39   for like five minutes since I closed the [TS]

00:21:41   home app not you know what I don't know [TS]

00:21:43   what the deal with that is I don't know [TS]

00:21:44   what its problem was seems to work now [TS]

00:21:46   not a great experience just one of those [TS]

00:21:48   kind of like oh sometimes Apple stuff [TS]

00:21:50   doesn't work you do have to wait those [TS]

00:21:52   kind of kind of depressing I did all the [TS]

00:21:56   experiments everyone else did turn the [TS]

00:21:57   volume real loud talk to it it's [TS]

00:21:59   impressive how well I can hear you I was [TS]

00:22:01   not impressed with how quickly it [TS]

00:22:03   executed my commands it shows the most [TS]

00:22:07   when you're telling it to [TS]

00:22:08   playing a song because I do that all the [TS]

00:22:10   time with the with the Google home side [TS]

00:22:12   because my kids make them play things [TS]

00:22:13   and I want them to stop immediately [TS]

00:22:14   right so this is probably my most common [TS]

00:22:17   interaction I mean these devices tell it [TS]

00:22:18   to stop playing whatever audio it's [TS]

00:22:20   currently playing and the home pod will [TS]

00:22:22   do it but a little bit more lag than [TS]

00:22:25   there is when I'm telling any of the [TS]

00:22:26   Gould devices the Google devices like as [TS]

00:22:28   soon as I get the word out of my mouth [TS]

00:22:29   it's like boom the audio cuts off the [TS]

00:22:31   home pod seems like I have to think [TS]

00:22:33   about it for a half a second or so and I [TS]

00:22:35   find that a little bit annoying [TS]

00:22:36   considering it's much more expensive [TS]

00:22:37   than the other ones so yeah not no real [TS]

00:22:42   surprises are the only thing that I [TS]

00:22:44   didn't anticipate is how angry my [TS]

00:22:47   children would get when they try to talk [TS]

00:22:48   to it using the Google's trigger phrase [TS]

00:22:51   so they're constantly saying you know [TS]

00:22:54   okay Google or whatever to try to make [TS]

00:22:56   it do things especially again if it's in [TS]

00:22:58   the middle of something and one kid [TS]

00:22:59   wants to stop it playing audio play a [TS]

00:23:00   different one they're yelling at it to [TS]

00:23:01   be and this of the odd so the Google [TS]

00:23:03   thing is answering them at this you know [TS]

00:23:04   trying to play music at the same time [TS]

00:23:06   it's like you have to talk to but it's [TS]

00:23:08   like what they don't understand why you [TS]

00:23:10   would have to use a different phrase I [TS]

00:23:11   mean I guess you can explain like it's [TS]

00:23:13   not a Google thing or whatever but [TS]

00:23:14   that's stupid so yeah so I have I have [TS]

00:23:20   such mixed feelings about this so we got [TS]

00:23:22   a letter from Tim routers in in Tim said [TS]

00:23:26   I see some funny parallels between Apple [TS]

00:23:28   product launches even with you guys with [TS]

00:23:30   respect to home pod in your latest [TS]

00:23:32   episodes and Tim enumerates a bunch of [TS]

00:23:35   things in and I'll try to summarize his [TS]

00:23:37   summary so in when the iPod was released [TS]

00:23:39   in 2001 you know it enters an existing [TS]

00:23:42   market of mp3 players oh there's no [TS]

00:23:44   wireless so there's less space no Nomad [TS]

00:23:45   lame iPhone oh it's ridiculously [TS]

00:23:47   expensive it isn't a physical keyboard [TS]

00:23:48   no cop cut copy paste no 3G etc etc home [TS]

00:23:52   pod well it's ridiculously expensive it [TS]

00:23:54   doesn't do multi-room audio doesn't do [TS]

00:23:55   stereo doesn't do multi users fearless [TS]

00:23:57   serious is severely limited etc so Tim's [TS]

00:24:01   point as he continues I'm assuming he [TS]

00:24:03   continues every time Apple blitter [TS]

00:24:06   eights critics with its relentless focus [TS]

00:24:07   on continuous improvement so in so many [TS]

00:24:10   words why isn't home pod the same thing [TS]

00:24:11   all over again well I mean I don't think [TS]

00:24:14   it's fair to assume that every Apple [TS]

00:24:17   product that is a kind of weird or if he [TS]

00:24:19   or delayed or incomplete one point oh [TS]

00:24:22   we'll like you know grow up to be an [TS]

00:24:23   awesome 2.0 or 3.0 4.0 like the initial [TS]

00:24:26   iPod was really expensive and it was [TS]

00:24:29   pretty limited especially cuz it was [TS]

00:24:30   like Mac only at the time like it was [TS]

00:24:32   there were reasons to be skeptical of [TS]

00:24:34   the initial iPod and that market wasn't [TS]

00:24:37   really proven yet whereas you know over [TS]

00:24:40   time they did make it great and it was [TS]

00:24:42   very successful the original iPhone was [TS]

00:24:46   too expensive for a lot of people that [TS]

00:24:47   original one did not sell nearly as many [TS]

00:24:49   as the follow-up models but you know [TS]

00:24:51   over time they made the iPhone [TS]

00:24:53   ridiculously great I mean in my opinion [TS]

00:24:55   was pretty great from day one but it [TS]

00:24:57   they made it more successful and more [TS]

00:24:58   mass-market as time went on but like [TS]

00:25:01   look at the Apple watch the first [TS]

00:25:04   version the Apple watch was barely [TS]

00:25:06   usable it was really a pretty mediocre [TS]

00:25:09   product it had lots of problems lost [TS]

00:25:11   limitations lots of weird and bad design [TS]

00:25:13   choices they did it iterate that over [TS]

00:25:16   time but most of that iteration happened [TS]

00:25:18   with the help of additional hardware [TS]

00:25:20   generations and a couple of years of [TS]

00:25:23   software generations that doesn't mean [TS]

00:25:25   that we were wrong to criticize the [TS]

00:25:27   Apple watch 1.0 the Apple watch 1.0 [TS]

00:25:30   needed a lot of criticism the home pod I [TS]

00:25:33   think is gonna be more like that but [TS]

00:25:36   although I think it's probably starting [TS]

00:25:38   from a better place you know the home [TS]

00:25:40   pod is clearly at one point there's lots [TS]

00:25:42   of missing features there's lots of [TS]

00:25:43   things that are a little bit wonky or [TS]

00:25:45   don't quite work the way people want [TS]

00:25:47   them to but I do expect over time for [TS]

00:25:50   the home pod to get significantly better [TS]

00:25:52   that doesn't mean that this home pod [TS]

00:25:54   will get necessarily a better life that [TS]

00:25:55   might require new hardware so I think it [TS]

00:25:57   is fair to criticize this one and the [TS]

00:25:59   other side of this is that a lot of the [TS]

00:26:04   criticism about the home pod today is a [TS]

00:26:07   bath Siri and the limitations of Siri [TS]

00:26:09   and inferior performance in some areas [TS]

00:26:13   of Siri I don't think we can reasonably [TS]

00:26:17   assume that's going to get better at at [TS]

00:26:19   the same kind of pace that we're used to [TS]

00:26:21   seeing Apple products get better with [TS]

00:26:23   when you're mainly waiting on like [TS]

00:26:25   hardware advances like we need the CPU [TS]

00:26:28   in this thing to get faster that's gonna [TS]

00:26:30   happen that's you know that that's kind [TS]

00:26:32   of a sure thing to happen you know one [TS]

00:26:34   to two years after the launch of [TS]

00:26:35   version 1 of pretty much anything that [TS]

00:26:37   Apple makes when you're when you're [TS]

00:26:39   worried about like the local device [TS]

00:26:41   software getting better like apples [TS]

00:26:42   pretty good at local device software [TS]

00:26:44   there's some flaws here and there but [TS]

00:26:45   they're pretty good at it but Siri is [TS]

00:26:47   not new and has gotten better at a [TS]

00:26:51   glacial pace and in many ways has the [TS]

00:26:55   same problems to it as it did when it [TS]

00:26:56   launched like seven years ago I don't [TS]

00:26:58   necessarily think it's a reasonable [TS]

00:27:01   assumption that the home pods flaws that [TS]

00:27:04   are Siri related are about to get better [TS]

00:27:06   or gonna get better in two years I [TS]

00:27:09   actually don't think that's a safe [TS]

00:27:10   assumption I would love that to be the [TS]

00:27:12   case but the track record of serious so [TS]

00:27:14   far is is pretty slow progress and [TS]

00:27:18   certain types of things that basically [TS]

00:27:20   are always problems I don't see that [TS]

00:27:23   changing quickly at least not as a sure [TS]

00:27:26   thing so I think it is reasonable to [TS]

00:27:29   criticize home pod 1.0 for no one to be [TS]

00:27:31   making fun of us for criticizing the [TS]

00:27:33   things that are actually wrong with it [TS]

00:27:34   today and also to be a little skeptical [TS]

00:27:37   of Siri improvements being meaningful [TS]

00:27:40   that are coming anytime soon the funny [TS]

00:27:42   thing about this is is that Siri murder [TS]

00:27:45   at least my understanding the [TS]

00:27:46   implementation of Siri is one of the few [TS]

00:27:48   things that Apple could actually tweak [TS]

00:27:49   on their end without a software update [TS]

00:27:51   right like they can make tweaks to Siri [TS]

00:27:54   server-side and they can do that at any [TS]

00:27:57   time and obviously that's not a [TS]

00:27:58   universal thing but generally speaking [TS]

00:27:59   they can make Siri a lot better without [TS]

00:28:02   having to do any sort of software update [TS]

00:28:03   locally and so here's the one place [TS]

00:28:05   where Apple is most well equipped to [TS]

00:28:08   make changes and yet I completely agree [TS]

00:28:10   with you Marco that Siri has gotten [TS]

00:28:12   potentially even worse than when it was [TS]

00:28:15   new no it's not worse than it definitely [TS]

00:28:18   and they started out pretty bad it [TS]

00:28:19   definitely is better and and it is [TS]

00:28:21   getting better but it's getting better [TS]

00:28:23   at a very slow pace and it still is you [TS]

00:28:27   know it gains new abilities you know [TS]

00:28:30   about once a year which is not [TS]

00:28:32   frequently enough it you know gains like [TS]

00:28:34   new abilities about once a year but it [TS]

00:28:35   is not it seems like it hit a plateau of [TS]

00:28:39   reliability like roughly in year two or [TS]

00:28:42   three and hasn't really gotten more [TS]

00:28:45   reliable since then yeah the point I'm [TS]

00:28:48   driving at though is that [TS]

00:28:49   it's weird to me that this is the one [TS]

00:28:50   place where Apple could really you know [TS]

00:28:52   ship fast ship ship off and and and they [TS]

00:28:55   don't and it really bums me out and man [TS]

00:28:58   I have so many angry thoughts about Siri [TS]

00:29:00   that we'll probably get to next that I'm [TS]

00:29:01   just gonna leave for now but I agree [TS]

00:29:04   with pretty much everything you just [TS]

00:29:05   said [TS]

00:29:05   John so when you read this I think we [TS]

00:29:09   got all of it from the email and so I [TS]

00:29:11   think this like we didn't leave out any [TS]

00:29:13   examples and basically the only two [TS]

00:29:15   examples are iPod and iPhone the gist of [TS]

00:29:16   the email is you know why do you doubt [TS]

00:29:19   Apple like they haven't they proven the [TS]

00:29:20   doubters wrong right doesn't you know [TS]

00:29:23   the last night history proves you wrong [TS]

00:29:24   doesn't it right well I think to start [TS]

00:29:28   we have to say whatever whatever a [TS]

00:29:29   logical fallacy or statistical bias that [TS]

00:29:32   is you know you cherry picked like it's [TS]

00:29:33   a ipod an iPhone as two examples yes yes [TS]

00:29:37   there's the you know the famous [TS]

00:29:38   was it Rob motive of Slashdot anyone [TS]

00:29:41   remember slash time yeah no I probably [TS]

00:29:43   know where I let's let's paste in [TS]

00:29:44   nomadland that's what that quote is and [TS]

00:29:46   that people lots of people doubted the [TS]

00:29:47   iPhone right those are like the apples [TS]

00:29:51   two biggest products have for the Mac so [TS]

00:29:53   yeah you can pick them and say there [TS]

00:29:54   were doubters there were doubters for [TS]

00:29:56   ping two that didn't go anywhere [TS]

00:29:59   there were doubters for the iPod Hi five [TS]

00:30:00   doesn't go anywhere there were doubters [TS]

00:30:02   for the g4 cube that like you know yeah [TS]

00:30:03   if you just pick the ones that end up [TS]

00:30:05   being smash successes it can look like [TS]

00:30:06   hey history proves you wrong but setting [TS]

00:30:07   that aside like so whatever you know so [TS]

00:30:10   you can't use these as examples anything [TS]

00:30:12   but what's different about the home pot [TS]

00:30:13   then the success is what makes it more [TS]

00:30:16   likely to be more like whatever sort of [TS]

00:30:19   no not-so-great success then it is to be [TS]

00:30:24   like the iPod and the iPhone and I think [TS]

00:30:26   there is not to say that this means home [TS]

00:30:29   pot is not going to be a success but I [TS]

00:30:32   think it probably means a home pot won't [TS]

00:30:33   be as huge of success as the iPod iPhone [TS]

00:30:36   both of those things came into the [TS]

00:30:38   market and they were substantially [TS]

00:30:40   different than the existing players [TS]

00:30:42   obviously the iPhone was difficult is [TS]

00:30:45   amused about how it was different [TS]

00:30:46   there's no physical keyboard no one does [TS]

00:30:48   phones like that you can't make a phone [TS]

00:30:49   like this doesn't even have 3G all the [TS]

00:30:51   phones out there have 3G and you know [TS]

00:30:53   expensive but like the iPhone was not [TS]

00:30:56   just like a Nokia candy bar phone but [TS]

00:30:58   with an apple logo on it right it was [TS]

00:31:00   very very different [TS]

00:31:02   it had things that no other phone in the [TS]

00:31:04   market had that's you know the software [TS]

00:31:06   obviously no other phone in the market [TS]

00:31:07   behave like that people didn't even [TS]

00:31:08   think it could possibly be real right [TS]

00:31:10   the iPod was more conventional but still [TS]

00:31:13   it was smaller and more well integrated [TS]

00:31:16   than the other devices that you could [TS]

00:31:18   buy that hold lots of songs in them and [TS]

00:31:20   the key part about the iPod was that [TS]

00:31:22   normal people could successful it could [TS]

00:31:24   be successful at the task of taking your [TS]

00:31:26   music collection and putting it on this [TS]

00:31:27   device and listening to it I owned a [TS]

00:31:29   bunch of pre iPod solid-state music [TS]

00:31:33   players and if you remember they also [TS]

00:31:35   had pre iPod hard drive based ones over [TS]

00:31:37   the size of a truck right normal people [TS]

00:31:40   would if they bought those things at all [TS]

00:31:42   which they probably wouldn't tended to [TS]

00:31:44   be less successful again I know it was [TS]

00:31:45   that my wife was not successful getting [TS]

00:31:47   the audio onto her tiny little flash [TS]

00:31:49   whatever a samsung or maybe was [TS]

00:31:52   Panasonic I can remember like there were [TS]

00:31:54   a Yamaha that iPod was different than [TS]

00:31:58   the others in that it was better in all [TS]

00:32:00   ways in terms of like size and number of [TS]

00:32:03   songs that had held and it was better [TS]

00:32:05   and always related to user interface and [TS]

00:32:07   so even though it was very limited and [TS]

00:32:08   it was Mac only it was expensive and it [TS]

00:32:10   had no wireless and had less space than [TS]

00:32:11   a nomad which I think was the one of the [TS]

00:32:13   hard drive bass players in the market [TS]

00:32:15   yep it had significant advantages home [TS]

00:32:18   pod enters a market already populated by [TS]

00:32:22   devices that already do more than the [TS]

00:32:24   home pod does in exactly the same way [TS]

00:32:27   that the home pod intents that do it [TS]

00:32:28   there are cylindrical shape speakers [TS]

00:32:30   that play audio that you can talk to [TS]

00:32:32   right there is no differentiator for the [TS]

00:32:34   home pot except perhaps audio quality [TS]

00:32:36   and it's not like there's no competition [TS]

00:32:38   for audio quality Sonos has good audio [TS]

00:32:40   quality and depending on whose test you [TS]

00:32:42   look at even the google max thing seems [TS]

00:32:44   to be so so right so the home pod comes [TS]

00:32:48   in with no real differentiator like [TS]

00:32:51   there's nothing that it does that is [TS]

00:32:53   different it's not like everything else [TS]

00:32:54   has a physical keyboard and it doesn't [TS]

00:32:55   all the other ones require you to touch [TS]

00:32:57   them and the home pod lets you talk to [TS]

00:32:58   it no it's exactly the same feature set [TS]

00:33:00   and that's why the home pods getting [TS]

00:33:02   slammed because it comes into a crowded [TS]

00:33:05   market doing nothing different or better [TS]

00:33:08   than the competition and not doing many [TS]

00:33:12   things that the competition does and [TS]

00:33:13   like I said the only thing you could say [TS]

00:33:15   homebuyers go [TS]

00:33:16   for it is audio quality but even audio [TS]

00:33:17   quality / price you can get to Sonos [TS]

00:33:19   ones versus the home pod and two saunas [TS]

00:33:21   one sound just about as good as the home [TS]

00:33:22   pod with the possible exception of bass [TS]

00:33:24   most people say so that thin edge of [TS]

00:33:28   like okay well it's the best sounding [TS]

00:33:29   cylinder that you can talk that you can [TS]

00:33:30   get but on the other side of that coin [TS]

00:33:32   you can't talk to it in as many ways as [TS]

00:33:34   you can talk to these seven other [TS]

00:33:35   products means that it's getting slammed [TS]

00:33:39   for I think legitimate reasons and it [TS]

00:33:40   also means that unless something very [TS]

00:33:42   important changes it doesn't have the [TS]

00:33:45   potential to be a breakout hit in the [TS]

00:33:47   same way the iPhone the iPod dupe [TS]

00:33:48   because it isn't differentiated enough [TS]

00:33:50   even if it gets better at everything and [TS]

00:33:53   it is as good as the Google home devices [TS]

00:33:56   at answering your things and you know as [TS]

00:33:57   good as Sonos an audio quality or [TS]

00:34:00   whatever you've just caught up then [TS]

00:34:02   right whereas the iPhone was is either [TS]

00:34:05   gonna live or die based on the idea that [TS]

00:34:07   you can have a phone that's all screen [TS]

00:34:08   and guess what it lived right and same [TS]

00:34:10   thing with the iPod is the ease of [TS]

00:34:13   putting some music on this thing enough [TS]

00:34:14   to make up for the high price well you [TS]

00:34:16   know that turns out that it was [TS]

00:34:18   especially once it came to Windows the [TS]

00:34:20   iteration is definitely a thing but even [TS]

00:34:23   iteration can't save you entirely okay [TS]

00:34:25   not save you can't make you a wildly [TS]

00:34:27   successful Apple TV is a great example [TS]

00:34:29   Apple TV came out a long time ago back [TS]

00:34:31   when it was called ITV before the Apple [TS]

00:34:33   doesn't learn they couldn't use that [TS]

00:34:34   name [TS]

00:34:35   the original Apple TV was not popular [TS]

00:34:39   and did not succeed other devices came [TS]

00:34:42   on market and did better than the [TS]

00:34:44   original Apple TV eventually Apple you [TS]

00:34:47   know caught up and said we're gonna make [TS]

00:34:48   a little puck shape thing and we're [TS]

00:34:51   gonna do what everyone else is doing but [TS]

00:34:53   right now Apple TV is you know it can it [TS]

00:34:58   main advantages that you play your DRM [TS]

00:35:00   lock the Apple content but other than [TS]

00:35:02   that it has no great differentiator for [TS]

00:35:05   you know besides media login from all [TS]

00:35:07   the other you know television connected [TS]

00:35:09   devices and even some Smart TVs can like [TS]

00:35:11   play netflix just as well as the Apple [TS]

00:35:13   TV [TS]

00:35:13   so they iterated an Apple TV room for a [TS]

00:35:16   long time and it actually took them [TS]

00:35:17   essentially two tries to even figure out [TS]

00:35:19   what the correct you know features and [TS]

00:35:21   and price for for that type of device so [TS]

00:35:24   I think it's it's not like we're [TS]

00:35:27   doubting that the home pod will [TS]

00:35:29   you know be a successful product but I [TS]

00:35:33   think it is entirely reasonable to give [TS]

00:35:35   it all the criticism I think it's [TS]

00:35:37   getting and I think it's entirely [TS]

00:35:38   reasonable not to expect it to be a [TS]

00:35:40   breakout success like the iPod and the [TS]

00:35:42   iPhone at least at least unless it until [TS]

00:35:45   it comes out with some differentiator in [TS]

00:35:47   fact if it was it would have you know [TS]

00:35:49   they always say this like if people [TS]

00:35:51   aren't making fun of you you're probably [TS]

00:35:52   not gonna be that successful it if it [TS]

00:35:55   was more differentiated and did [TS]

00:35:57   something radically different that would [TS]

00:35:59   give it probably more potential because [TS]

00:36:01   like maybe it does maybe that weird [TS]

00:36:03   thing that it's doing that nobody else [TS]

00:36:04   is doing is going to be the thing that [TS]

00:36:05   makes it a great success right but now [TS]

00:36:08   you look at it it's like it's not doing [TS]

00:36:09   anything differently anyone else it's [TS]

00:36:11   doing exactly the same stuff only some [TS]

00:36:13   of it not as good and that doesn't spell [TS]

00:36:16   you know massive success it spells ok [TS]

00:36:20   success right even the watch I would say [TS]

00:36:22   is much more differentiated and even the [TS]

00:36:24   watch has taken a while to get going but [TS]

00:36:26   there was really no other SmartWatch [TS]

00:36:27   that had the basically the the power and [TS]

00:36:30   the you know the fashion sense that the [TS]

00:36:33   Apple watch did on its introduction so [TS]

00:36:35   even that had more potential upside than [TS]

00:36:37   the home pod so I think everyone is [TS]

00:36:39   lukewarm on the home pod for valid [TS]

00:36:41   reasons ok I mean it's just it's a fair [TS]

00:36:46   point like I I understand why the email [TS]

00:36:49   was written I just I don't currently see [TS]

00:36:52   it as the same and even if home had [TS]

00:36:55   version 7 is the best speaker that has [TS]

00:36:57   ever been made I don't think that [TS]

00:37:00   negates any of the criticisms we have [TS]

00:37:01   now and I'm trying to think of like what [TS]

00:37:04   would be a breakout feature like you [TS]

00:37:05   know it's a feature that doesn't already [TS]

00:37:08   exist in the Google or Amazon or Sonos [TS]

00:37:10   product that the home pod could have and [TS]

00:37:15   you know just because I can't think of [TS]

00:37:17   one doesn't mean there isn't one there [TS]

00:37:19   could be one but nothing Apple has [TS]

00:37:21   announced I think fits that category [TS]

00:37:23   maybe well I don't know maybe like if [TS]

00:37:27   the home kit stuff ever takes off apples [TS]

00:37:29   do a better job of integrating all of [TS]

00:37:31   our light switches and doorbells and [TS]

00:37:33   whatever then Amazon currently does but [TS]

00:37:35   I don't know and you know in the [TS]

00:37:39   meantime we're all just hoping that home [TS]

00:37:40   pod catches up that its voice stuff is [TS]

00:37:43   that being as good as Google and Amazon [TS]

00:37:45   and that it gets all the capabilities [TS]

00:37:48   that Apple originally advertised for it [TS]

00:37:49   in terms of having multiple ones and [TS]

00:37:51   multi-room audio and all the other [TS]

00:37:53   things that some of its competitors [TS]

00:37:53   already have I want one [TS]

00:37:57   but I know I'm gonna be disappointed by [TS]

00:37:58   it and so that's why I'm bought one and [TS]

00:38:00   plus it's what is it three and fifty [TS]

00:38:01   four hundred dollars like that's it's [TS]

00:38:03   enough money that's that's not an [TS]

00:38:04   impulse buy to me and not to say that it [TS]

00:38:06   is to you to either just for me anyway [TS]

00:38:08   it's not an impulse buy and and so I I [TS]

00:38:11   just it's new and shiny and Apple made [TS]

00:38:15   its that means I should I should have [TS]

00:38:16   won that's that's the rule that's what [TS]

00:38:19   they tell me to do that's what uncle Tim [TS]

00:38:20   tells me to do and I don't know I'll [TS]

00:38:22   probably get one eventually but sitting [TS]

00:38:23   here now I just I know it's gonna [TS]

00:38:25   disappoint me yeah I I really want to [TS]

00:38:28   want the home pod more you know like [TS]

00:38:31   like I feel like I'm like on Apple's [TS]

00:38:33   team for pretty much everything else as [TS]

00:38:35   much as some people think I'm not I [TS]

00:38:37   really AM on Apple's team for the most [TS]

00:38:39   part and and the reason why I sometimes [TS]

00:38:42   criticism is because I like them so much [TS]

00:38:44   and because I think they're better than [TS]

00:38:45   everyone else in industry a lot of stuff [TS]

00:38:47   but it I really want so badly to love [TS]

00:38:51   and then buy everything that they make [TS]

00:38:53   but I can't like the home pod is about [TS]

00:38:57   70 percent of the way there for me like [TS]

00:38:59   I need something else I need really good [TS]

00:39:01   airplay too or I need a reason for [TS]

00:39:03   overcast to be developing on it which [TS]

00:39:05   might be airplay to whenever that ships [TS]

00:39:06   or you I need you know a Siri kid a P I [TS]

00:39:10   like something's just something give me [TS]

00:39:12   something else you know close one of [TS]

00:39:14   these you know open check boxes here [TS]

00:39:16   that that that are making it you know [TS]

00:39:19   not quite enough for me [TS]

00:39:20   ultimately the thing that could really [TS]

00:39:22   make it awesome for me is if Siri gets a [TS]

00:39:25   lot better and I'm I think we might be [TS]

00:39:28   waiting on time for that [TS]

00:39:30   on the on the audio from the audio [TS]

00:39:33   quality or even just that did their [TS]

00:39:35   overall device quality and the [TS]

00:39:36   integration with the Apple ecosystem [TS]

00:39:37   home pod has the very easy potential to [TS]

00:39:41   be the audio : of Apple TV and that [TS]

00:39:44   there are lots of Apple TV like devices [TS]

00:39:47   that you can connect to your television [TS]

00:39:49   they can play like YouTube and Netflix [TS]

00:39:50   and Hulu [TS]

00:39:52   you know all the stuff right there's the [TS]

00:39:54   Apple TV is not the only competitor in [TS]

00:39:56   that market but a lot of people I know [TS]

00:39:58   who are in the Apple ecosystem and like [TS]

00:40:00   fancy Apple stuff instead of having a [TS]

00:40:02   Roku or fi TV they have Apple TVs and [TS]

00:40:04   why do they have them is it because [TS]

00:40:06   Apple TV is fantastically better than [TS]

00:40:08   fire TV and Roku yes it's better and [TS]

00:40:10   it's better in ways that Apple nerds [TS]

00:40:12   care about no trust me it's better I [TS]

00:40:14   mean I tried like maybe when I was at [TS]

00:40:16   two years ago when I tried like the all [TS]

00:40:18   I tried to Roku and a fire TV because I [TS]

00:40:21   was frustrated with the Apple TV and [TS]

00:40:22   I'll tell you what the Apple TV drives [TS]

00:40:25   me crazy but it's bet it's still better [TS]

00:40:28   than a bunch of them and I think it's [TS]

00:40:31   the difference is not that big I feel [TS]

00:40:33   like it's mostly aesthetic I like some [TS]

00:40:35   of the other remotes better than well [TS]

00:40:38   yeah [TS]

00:40:39   but but anyway like Apple TV is more [TS]

00:40:42   expensive but people buy it because it's [TS]

00:40:45   the Apple iasts one so home pod easily [TS]

00:40:48   could get the market for people who want [TS]

00:40:50   a cylinder they can talk to the plays [TS]

00:40:52   audio nicely and they're people who are [TS]

00:40:55   in the Apple ecosystem that are willing [TS]

00:40:56   to pay a little bit more for a nice [TS]

00:40:57   looking device that sounds really good [TS]

00:40:59   like that's the easy market right even [TS]

00:41:01   if it doesn't do everything the Google [TS]

00:41:02   home and echo do and you know and you [TS]

00:41:05   know setting aside sona's for now home [TS]

00:41:08   pod for sure should get that entire [TS]

00:41:09   market which is not a small market like [TS]

00:41:11   that's if it's if it can suddenly be as [TS]

00:41:13   successful as the Apple TV 4k I think [TS]

00:41:16   Apple would be OK for that for a 1.0 [TS]

00:41:18   product right and then they can go from [TS]

00:41:19   there [TS]

00:41:20   so I think there is a clear path to [TS]

00:41:22   okayness for the home pod even without [TS]

00:41:25   improving anything about it simply [TS]

00:41:27   because it is nice-looking and it sounds [TS]

00:41:29   good and it's integrated with the Apple [TS]

00:41:30   ecosystem and Apple people like you both [TS]

00:41:32   just said like to buy Apple stuff so I [TS]

00:41:34   think that's a gimme we are sponsored [TS]

00:41:38   this week by Squarespace make your next [TS]

00:41:40   move go to Squarespace calm and use [TS]

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00:41:55   anymore for almost anything at all these [TS]

00:41:57   days even I hardly ever do it anymore [TS]

00:41:59   and I've used to love doing that but the [TS]

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00:42:11   like storefronts where you're selling [TS]

00:42:13   digital or physical goods you can embed [TS]

00:42:15   maps and calendars and widgets and news [TS]

00:42:18   feeds galleries all these wonderful [TS]

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00:42:57   check out Squarespace today go to [TS]

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00:43:08   your next move with a wonderful [TS]

00:43:09   beautiful website from Squarespace let's [TS]

00:43:15   talk about Siri I have thoughts so this [TS]

00:43:21   started a couple of weeks ago I was [TS]

00:43:23   having a conversation with my friend [TS]

00:43:25   Jamie Pinkham and we were we were [TS]

00:43:28   talking with a mutual friend of ours and [TS]

00:43:30   and Jamie had said you know serious [TS]

00:43:33   terrible but I applaud Apple for [TS]

00:43:35   sticking to their guns in regard to [TS]

00:43:36   privacy yeah we all know if they have [TS]

00:43:39   gathered more info on us it would be [TS]

00:43:40   better and I thought you know what he's [TS]

00:43:43   absolutely right and maybe the reason [TS]

00:43:45   I'm so grumpy about Siri is because [TS]

00:43:48   Apple isn't just you know for going and [TS]

00:43:51   issuing I think that's how you pronounce [TS]

00:43:53   Lord of shewing you know privacy they're [TS]

00:43:56   doing what I would want them to do which [TS]

00:43:58   is to do the right thing and keep new [TS]

00:44:00   user privacy at the forefront and you [TS]

00:44:03   know if their product is a little crummy [TS]

00:44:04   or because of it then so be it but then [TS]

00:44:07   I got thinking about it a little bit [TS]

00:44:08   more and it occurred to me but Siri [TS]

00:44:12   still sucks for a lot of things that [TS]

00:44:15   have nothing to do with my data like did [TS]

00:44:18   I tell the story on the show I think I [TS]

00:44:19   about asking when the the UVA Tech game [TS]

00:44:23   basketball game was and I'd asked for [TS]

00:44:26   like you know when is the Cavaliers game [TS]

00:44:28   on and it wanted to show me the [TS]

00:44:30   Cleveland Cavaliers okay fine and then I [TS]

00:44:32   asked like when it's the Hokie game on [TS]

00:44:33   and they was I don't know okay when are [TS]

00:44:35   the Hokies and Cavaliers playing each [TS]

00:44:37   other [TS]

00:44:37   yeah the they played each other six [TS]

00:44:39   months ago here's the score okay what [TS]

00:44:42   time is the Hokie basketball game oh [TS]

00:44:43   it's totally tonight at six o'clock why [TS]

00:44:45   do you ask like it's just in and that's [TS]

00:44:48   the thing that's so frustrating well one [TS]

00:44:50   of the things that's so frustrating to [TS]

00:44:51   me is that yeah I think Jamie was right [TS]

00:44:53   that in and of itself this things could [TS]

00:44:57   be a lot better or or you know Syria [TS]

00:45:00   would be more knowledgeable [TS]

00:45:01   if privacy wasn't as big a deal you know [TS]

00:45:05   if so much more of this stuff could be [TS]

00:45:06   crunched server side like if my entire [TS]

00:45:08   calendar was server side if all of my [TS]

00:45:10   email was server side and by that I mean [TS]

00:45:13   Apple could read all of it in so many [TS]

00:45:15   ways I feel like Siri could be so much [TS]

00:45:17   better and I respect Apple I truly and [TS]

00:45:19   honestly respect Apple for making their [TS]

00:45:21   product by most arguments worse by not [TS]

00:45:23   cutting that corner because I think that [TS]

00:45:25   that that's better for me even though [TS]

00:45:27   the product on the whole is worse but [TS]

00:45:29   can you get like an actor's name right I [TS]

00:45:32   was in in and even just basic dictation [TS]

00:45:35   so I went for a run yesterday and it's [TS]

00:45:40   one point to the ride my iPods and I'm [TS]

00:45:42   all I'm on my Apple watch my Apple watch [TS]

00:45:44   with LTE connection which I don't know [TS]

00:45:46   if you've ever heard I'm a little grumpy [TS]

00:45:47   about but here be that as it may I'm on [TS]

00:45:50   my ear pods Apple watch I am panting to [TS]

00:45:52   be fair but I if I had held down the [TS]

00:45:57   crown on the Apple watch so it would [TS]

00:45:59   listen to me because I've hey Siri [TS]

00:46:00   alright no actually he Syria doesn't [TS]

00:46:01   work with the air pods but I don't have [TS]

00:46:05   the the double tap to kick on Siri [TS]

00:46:08   because I prefer to do it differently I [TS]

00:46:09   prefer the double tap to do different [TS]

00:46:11   things so I hold down the crown on the [TS]

00:46:13   watch I hear the beep beep and I said [TS]

00:46:15   something to the effect of like remind [TS]

00:46:16   me to open a 529 savings account for [TS]

00:46:18   Makayla and holy God I wish I had [TS]

00:46:21   recorded what it had come up with in the [TS]

00:46:24   defense of Siri I was panting this was [TS]

00:46:26   like two-thirds of the way through my [TS]

00:46:27   run but it came up with like something [TS]

00:46:30   that was barely intelligible I was able [TS]

00:46:32   to piece it together [TS]

00:46:33   after the fact but it was hilarious how [TS]

00:46:37   bad the transcription was and all it was [TS]

00:46:40   was a reminder like this shouldn't in [TS]

00:46:42   theory have been that complex then I get [TS]

00:46:45   home and I decide I wanted to listen to [TS]

00:46:47   you some probably got off on me as I got [TS]

00:46:49   or even remember what it was and so I'm [TS]

00:46:51   in front of my garage I'm on my driveway [TS]

00:46:54   my phone was sitting in my kitchen now [TS]

00:46:56   Marco you've seen the house and we are [TS]

00:46:59   talking 20 feet maybe from the from [TS]

00:47:03   basically the garage door to the kitchen [TS]

00:47:05   and to be fair there's a couple of walls [TS]

00:47:07   including an exterior wall between me [TS]

00:47:09   and my phone but probably a lot of [TS]

00:47:10   Tito's and Villita shells and cheese [TS]

00:47:12   naturally and so I you know said you [TS]

00:47:16   know hey can you play me the latest [TS]

00:47:18   album by yo mute math or something like [TS]

00:47:20   that I don't remember exactly what it [TS]

00:47:21   was and then I see hold on again this is [TS]

00:47:25   on my watch now I have plenty of Wi-Fi [TS]

00:47:27   coverage at this point but it appears [TS]

00:47:30   that's not good enough [TS]

00:47:30   hold on I'll tap you when I'm ready yeah [TS]

00:47:36   series not available sorry about that [TS]

00:47:38   and it's like come on no maybe that [TS]

00:47:41   isn't I guess strictly speaking that's [TS]

00:47:42   not serious like that's just a general [TS]

00:47:43   connectivity because that's well I mean [TS]

00:47:46   is it or is it like is it a local [TS]

00:47:48   failure or a server failure either way [TS]

00:47:50   it's kind of serious problem like if [TS]

00:47:52   your watch should be connected you know [TS]

00:47:54   like if it's in an area where it has [TS]

00:47:56   good coverage it should be connected I [TS]

00:47:58   mean I have plenty of LTE although I [TS]

00:48:00   don't I did look and it was not on LTE [TS]

00:48:02   at the time I plenty of LTE though so [TS]

00:48:04   hypothetically it could should have fall [TS]

00:48:07   back - fall back fell back to LTE I [TS]

00:48:10   certainly was well within my Wi-Fi [TS]

00:48:13   coverage without question I was in with [TS]

00:48:16   within Wi-Fi coverage and yet it insists [TS]

00:48:18   on going I think to the phone because [TS]

00:48:21   you know when I did the swipe up to get [TS]

00:48:22   the little control center thing I saw a [TS]

00:48:23   phone icon in the upper left and it was [TS]

00:48:26   insistent on going to the phone which [TS]

00:48:27   you have itself as a first stop okay [TS]

00:48:29   fine I'm okay with that but can you not [TS]

00:48:30   fall back onto something else and [TS]

00:48:32   whatever I was trying to play was [TS]

00:48:34   something that I had night UNS match so [TS]

00:48:36   this sure to have like the way I [TS]

00:48:39   expected it to work is that maybe it [TS]

00:48:41   would have tried the phone and then [TS]

00:48:42   given up when it wasn't too strong [TS]

00:48:44   enough connection or whatever and then [TS]

00:48:45   just gone via either Wi-Fi [TS]

00:48:47   LTE and asked you know Apple hey what [TS]

00:48:49   did Casey just say oh he wants to listen [TS]

00:48:51   to the latest out of my new math okay so [TS]

00:48:53   does he have anything by yo mute math [TS]

00:48:55   and iTunes Oh indeed he does here's what [TS]

00:48:58   you should play and it should work and [TS]

00:49:00   it's just these little failures are [TS]

00:49:03   happening all the friggin time and it's [TS]

00:49:06   to the point that I feel like I cannot [TS]

00:49:10   communicate with my phone verbally I [TS]

00:49:11   cannot communicate with my phone by [TS]

00:49:13   typing on my phone because that's become [TS]

00:49:16   a disaster so I just I feel like the [TS]

00:49:19   only device that I have that I can input [TS]

00:49:22   any text into with any efficacy is my [TS]

00:49:24   Mac and it's driving me insane but [TS]

00:49:28   better hope it's not the MacBook [TS]

00:49:29   keyboard actually my psyche there's a [TS]

00:49:32   little bit crunchy today it's not too [TS]

00:49:33   happy about that I was able to mash on [TS]

00:49:35   and get whatever you know microscopic [TS]

00:49:37   speck of dust was out of the way I did [TS]

00:49:40   not need to return to work the can of [TS]

00:49:43   compressed air that I kid you not I [TS]

00:49:45   bought specifically for my macbook I [TS]

00:49:47   hadn't had a can of compressed air in [TS]

00:49:48   the house and like ten years but but but [TS]

00:49:51   I needed I think a lot of the [TS]

00:49:55   frustration here is like like it's like [TS]

00:49:57   I mentioned I think last show or or [TS]

00:49:59   maybe it was on my seventeen our talk [TS]

00:50:01   show last week or whatever it was and I [TS]

00:50:03   mentioned that I that like you know when [TS]

00:50:07   I first got the Amazon echo it was the [TS]

00:50:09   you know after years of like kind of you [TS]

00:50:11   know passively trying to use Siri and [TS]

00:50:13   have it fail a lot of the time and just [TS]

00:50:15   kind of be frustrated about it it was [TS]

00:50:17   striking to me how reliable the Amazon [TS]

00:50:20   echo was in in and how quickly it would [TS]

00:50:23   answer me and and you know in part this [TS]

00:50:25   is kind of not a straight comparison [TS]

00:50:28   because the Amazon echo is stationary [TS]

00:50:31   plugged in all the time listening all [TS]

00:50:34   the time for the wake word at least and [TS]

00:50:36   is in a controlled environment it's [TS]

00:50:39   always in the same spot and there are [TS]

00:50:41   like you know acoustic things that can [TS]

00:50:44   happen like for instance I mentioned [TS]

00:50:45   earlier like when when my range hood fan [TS]

00:50:47   is on on the stove it creates like you [TS]

00:50:50   know a good deal of fairly broadband [TS]

00:50:53   white noise and the echo just can't hear [TS]

00:50:56   anything anymore like even if it's even [TS]

00:50:58   if humans can hear over it just fine [TS]

00:50:59   like sir [TS]

00:51:00   types of noise that are in the room the [TS]

00:51:02   echo just seems to really hear very [TS]

00:51:04   badly if those noises are present but [TS]

00:51:06   but otherwise like the echo is pretty [TS]

00:51:09   reliable but again that's because it's [TS]

00:51:11   in one place plugged in all the time [TS]

00:51:14   listening for the wake where all the [TS]

00:51:15   time and has a stable connection like it [TS]

00:51:17   can remain connected the network it [TS]

00:51:19   doesn't have to it doesn't have to Power [TS]

00:51:20   Save and drop itself off the Wi-Fi when [TS]

00:51:23   it's not necessary is stuff like that so [TS]

00:51:25   there are it this is not not a straight [TS]

00:51:26   comparison here to your watch situation [TS]

00:51:28   which was very possibly affected by [TS]

00:51:30   connectivity and power saving stuff but [TS]

00:51:33   that being said like you know the the [TS]

00:51:35   the way the error rates of these things [TS]

00:51:37   work suppose the echo hears me 95 [TS]

00:51:40   percent of the time and Siri hears me 90 [TS]

00:51:42   percent of the time that still means [TS]

00:51:43   Siri fails twice as often and so as you [TS]

00:51:47   get closer to these higher number you [TS]

00:51:49   know it's very same same math when you [TS]

00:51:50   talk about cache hit rates you have the [TS]

00:51:51   same problem like like you know it seems [TS]

00:51:53   like my like when when one of my cache [TS]

00:51:56   servers is down then about you know [TS]

00:51:59   eight percent of hits will miss but that [TS]

00:52:02   also means that my databases are then [TS]

00:52:05   serving like five times as many hits [TS]

00:52:07   because the hit rate is usually so high [TS]

00:52:09   so like you know you'll see a huge spike [TS]

00:52:11   in load on the databases for what seems [TS]

00:52:14   like a small difference in the cache hit [TS]

00:52:15   rate so this is you know it's similar [TS]

00:52:17   problem here with like you know for Siri [TS]

00:52:20   to get like competitive and better in [TS]

00:52:23   this way it needs to get what's it needs [TS]

00:52:27   to dramatically reduce its error rate [TS]

00:52:29   and its failure rate and Apple might [TS]

00:52:32   think it's really good if you know if [TS]

00:52:34   Apple has data on this which I'm sure [TS]

00:52:35   they do you know they might see it as [TS]

00:52:37   somewhere being in the 80s or 90s and [TS]

00:52:38   think that's great but the competition [TS]

00:52:40   is even better than that and the [TS]

00:52:42   difference can still be seen and felt [TS]

00:52:44   pretty pretty regularly [TS]

00:52:46   I would love so much for Siri to improve [TS]

00:52:50   at the same rate as Apple's hardware and [TS]

00:52:52   software usually improves but it's been [TS]

00:52:55   here a while and we haven't seen that so [TS]

00:52:56   I I don't think anybody should [TS]

00:52:59   reasonably anticipate that that's going [TS]

00:53:01   to happen now like all of a sudden you [TS]

00:53:03   see you're gonna start getting better at [TS]

00:53:04   a rapid pace [TS]

00:53:05   I don't know like they have this they [TS]

00:53:08   have the home pod which depends very [TS]

00:53:09   heavily on Siri so you might think [TS]

00:53:11   that's great motivation but I think the [TS]

00:53:13   iPhone for the last 70 [TS]

00:53:14   there's also pretty good motivation and [TS]

00:53:15   they haven't done that so you know I [TS]

00:53:18   don't it just it doesn't seem like it's [TS]

00:53:20   really a core competency of Apple to [TS]

00:53:24   make really good AI based big data [TS]

00:53:26   services like this and and you know a [TS]

00:53:29   lot of people lean on the privacy thing [TS]

00:53:30   and Apple to some reason or to some [TS]

00:53:32   degree also kind of leans on the privacy [TS]

00:53:33   angle it almost as an excuse of why it [TS]

00:53:37   has to be this way and I think that's [TS]

00:53:40   not a valid argument you know I think [TS]

00:53:45   the the privacy aspect of the way Apple [TS]

00:53:48   does things is nice and and there's [TS]

00:53:51   merit to that there's value to that I'm [TS]

00:53:53   glad they do that but that does not [TS]

00:53:55   preclude them from making really good [TS]

00:53:57   services in this area [TS]

00:53:58   it just doesn't it's two it's two [TS]

00:54:00   separate things yes if they had more [TS]

00:54:02   data if they if they were more creepy [TS]

00:54:03   with letting stuff certain types of [TS]

00:54:05   certain services could get better but [TS]

00:54:08   Apple makes a lot of services that could [TS]

00:54:11   get better with what they already have [TS]

00:54:12   and they don't or they don't get better [TS]

00:54:15   enough so I don't think that Apple has [TS]

00:54:19   to give up privacy to make great [TS]

00:54:21   services conversely I don't think the [TS]

00:54:23   privacy is the reason their services in [TS]

00:54:25   some of these areas are not great I [TS]

00:54:27   think that's a convenient excuse for [TS]

00:54:29   people who don't really understand how [TS]

00:54:30   to make these services very well but [TS]

00:54:32   otherwise it's that's not the reality [TS]

00:54:34   the reality is these services can get [TS]

00:54:38   way better with the amount of [TS]

00:54:40   information that they already do or [TS]

00:54:41   don't collect I don't think Apple is [TS]

00:54:44   culturally and structurally set up to [TS]

00:54:47   make really great services of this type [TS]

00:54:48   I think they have proven that yeah and [TS]

00:54:51   that's exactly my point when I was [TS]

00:54:52   bringing up what Jamie had said of you [TS]

00:54:53   is that there's so much that has nothing [TS]

00:54:55   to do with privacy like okay fine maybe [TS]

00:54:58   if Siri saw that I was sitting in [TS]

00:55:01   Virginia when I was asking about to [TS]

00:55:02   Virginia colleges playing each other [TS]

00:55:04   maybe it could have narrowed down a [TS]

00:55:06   little bit more but either way I don't [TS]

00:55:09   think that would have made a tremendous [TS]

00:55:10   difference and okay even if that would [TS]

00:55:12   have made a difference then what happens [TS]

00:55:14   when I'm using Siri is like a front end [TS]

00:55:16   IMDB like I think it was John had [TS]

00:55:18   mentioned earlier you know I want to [TS]

00:55:19   know about who's acting in the movie I'm [TS]

00:55:21   watching or the TV show I'm watching [TS]

00:55:22   like Siri falls all over its face on [TS]

00:55:25   that half the time and that has nothing [TS]

00:55:26   to do with any [TS]

00:55:27   thing except I guess if it was listening [TS]

00:55:29   to what I was watching which is even [TS]

00:55:31   creepy enough that I don't think Google [TS]

00:55:33   does that sort of thing so you know what [TS]

00:55:35   I mean like there's so much that it that [TS]

00:55:37   has nothing to do with privacy and this [TS]

00:55:39   is what I was saying originally what [TS]

00:55:41   Marco is saying now just a moment ago it [TS]

00:55:43   there's so much that is beyond this and [TS]

00:55:47   I I just it's frustrating and I wanna I [TS]

00:55:51   want to see it get better and I'm [TS]

00:55:53   frustrated that it's not getting better [TS]

00:55:55   especially since unlike you know the [TS]

00:55:57   annual release cycles for Mac OS and iOS [TS]

00:56:00   which we hopefully talked about this [TS]

00:56:01   episode I I don't understand why this [TS]

00:56:05   isn't getting better faster except [TS]

00:56:06   perhaps just in in Marco you said this a [TS]

00:56:08   moment ago you know a corporate culture [TS]

00:56:10   that that doesn't that isn't conducive [TS]

00:56:12   to it I'd like to generalize this from [TS]

00:56:15   from Syria specifically to these voices [TS]

00:56:18   since in general this is just to [TS]

00:56:19   reiterate some what Marco just said and [TS]

00:56:21   what he said on this topic many times I [TS]

00:56:23   think we all talked about in the past I [TS]

00:56:25   think it's actually analogous to the [TS]

00:56:27   iPhone which I'm thinking about because [TS]

00:56:29   we had that earlier feedback about it [TS]

00:56:31   [Music] [TS]

00:56:32   that it's Marco talked about the the [TS]

00:56:35   percentage differences in the gaps and [TS]

00:56:37   like so you know if the competing [TS]

00:56:39   products are this good and Siri is that [TS]

00:56:40   good even if Siri is improving there's [TS]

00:56:42   still a gap between it but I think the [TS]

00:56:44   important part of those hypothetical [TS]

00:56:46   numbers is that like the original iPhone [TS]

00:56:49   there is a there's a threshold on one [TS]

00:56:54   side the same interface is not [TS]

00:56:58   acceptable on the other side of that [TS]

00:57:00   threshold you pass into the realm of [TS]

00:57:03   acceptability the iPhone was one of the [TS]

00:57:05   first mass-market devices to cross that [TS]

00:57:08   threshold for touch input on a screen [TS]

00:57:10   the touch screen which touch screens was [TS]

00:57:13   existed forever and people generally [TS]

00:57:15   hated suddenly got responsive enough so [TS]

00:57:19   that you know it wasn't just like oh [TS]

00:57:21   this is like 1% better it crossed over [TS]

00:57:23   all aligned right and suddenly it was [TS]

00:57:26   good enough and they've gotten way [TS]

00:57:27   better since then right but it was so [TS]

00:57:29   clear that this is the first device that [TS]

00:57:31   that is good enough that regular people [TS]

00:57:34   will use the touchscreen and not just [TS]

00:57:37   fine you know they like they won't hate [TS]

00:57:39   it it'll it'll feel good it'll feel [TS]

00:57:41   it'll feel like they're directly [TS]

00:57:42   manipulating the things on the screen [TS]

00:57:43   right for the cylinders that you talk to [TS]

00:57:46   the essential that they're there is the [TS]

00:57:49   same line and Amazon cross that a long [TS]

00:57:51   time ago and it's this a couple of [TS]

00:57:54   aspects one is this got to hear you [TS]

00:57:56   right - is it has to know what the hell [TS]

00:58:00   you're asking me about and three is it [TS]

00:58:01   has to do it fast right and the [TS]

00:58:04   combination of those three things [TS]

00:58:05   produces a feedback cycle for people who [TS]

00:58:07   use the echo that builds confidence the [TS]

00:58:11   first time you use it you're impressed [TS]

00:58:12   that even understood what you mumbled [TS]

00:58:14   then you're impressed that it did like [TS]

00:58:16   it could do the thing that you asked for [TS]

00:58:18   and then I think with the echo you're [TS]

00:58:20   impressed that it did it so quickly like [TS]

00:58:22   you feel like you barely had the words [TS]

00:58:23   out of your mouth and it's setting your [TS]

00:58:24   timer doing whatever telling you what [TS]

00:58:26   time it is are telling you the weather [TS]

00:58:27   it just seems so fast and when that [TS]

00:58:29   happens that the threshold that it [TS]

00:58:32   crosses like the utility threshold of [TS]

00:58:33   like this is an appliance and it's no [TS]

00:58:35   longer a computer thing where I just you [TS]

00:58:38   know cross my fingers and hope that [TS]

00:58:39   something cool and computery works just [TS]

00:58:40   becomes part of your day right even if [TS]

00:58:43   it has limitations like oh I just know [TS]

00:58:45   it can't hear me with the rangehood on [TS]

00:58:46   right there this is parameters to it you [TS]

00:58:49   know if you know that's the case that's [TS]

00:58:51   bad and Amazon should improve that but [TS]

00:58:54   it's not like on some days when it's [TS]

00:58:57   raining you can't hear me and then on [TS]

00:58:59   Thursdays sometimes doesn't hear me [TS]

00:59:00   right like you crossed that threshold [TS]

00:59:02   where it becomes reliable and there are [TS]

00:59:05   so many things that we could talk to [TS]

00:59:06   including Siri and lots of other things [TS]

00:59:08   that have some kind of voice interface [TS]

00:59:10   that do not cross that threshold and so [TS]

00:59:13   you you give up on them you don't use [TS]

00:59:15   them or use them for an extremely narrow [TS]

00:59:17   you know set of things and in particular [TS]

00:59:20   circumstances now I think the home pod [TS]

00:59:22   has actually crossed some of those [TS]

00:59:23   thresholds for Apple I think the home [TS]

00:59:25   Bob can hear me really really well I may [TS]

00:59:28   be able to hear me better than any other [TS]

00:59:29   device on the market not better enough [TS]

00:59:31   perhaps to make a difference because in [TS]

00:59:33   general the I'm still amazed at how well [TS]

00:59:36   the Google home could hear me and I've [TS]

00:59:38   seen other people talk to their echoes [TS]

00:59:39   from far distances and it seems to work [TS]

00:59:41   pretty well but the home pot I think [TS]

00:59:43   crosses the threshold for can it hear me [TS]

00:59:45   it does not cross the threshold for does [TS]

00:59:48   that understand what I'm asking for [TS]

00:59:50   because still many times it will neither [TS]

00:59:54   know [TS]

00:59:54   do what I think it should do or the same [TS]

00:59:58   command will get different results [TS]

00:59:58   command will get different results [TS]

01:00:00   and it also I think doesn't cross the [TS]

01:00:02   threshold as I mentioned before for [TS]

01:00:03   responding quickly enough when I tell it [TS]

01:00:05   to stop playing music I know it hears me [TS]

01:00:07   I know it understands what I want to do [TS]

01:00:09   and it does it but it does it a little [TS]

01:00:11   bit more slowly than I would like slowly [TS]

01:00:14   enough that it makes me it gives me that [TS]

01:00:15   millisecond of doubt whether it's doing [TS]

01:00:17   it it doesn't create that that feedback [TS]

01:00:19   cycle where I'm like oh now I feel like [TS]

01:00:20   I have a voice connection to an off [TS]

01:00:22   switch [TS]

01:00:22   right in the same way that whenever [TS]

01:00:24   Marco says like turn everything off and [TS]

01:00:25   is downstairs that it turns everything [TS]

01:00:27   off you get used to it doing that right [TS]

01:00:30   then you don't get you don't expect it [TS]

01:00:32   to have like a little spinner light [TS]

01:00:33   going spin spin spin spin okay I'll turn [TS]

01:00:36   off your lights that's too long that [TS]

01:00:38   doesn't create the feedback cycle so I'm [TS]

01:00:41   not sure exactly what values those lines [TS]

01:00:43   are at but I can tell that certain [TS]

01:00:44   devices are over in certain devices or [TS]

01:00:46   not and I think home pod with the [TS]

01:00:48   advancement of its of its audio output [TS]

01:00:49   and input has crossed over a bunch of [TS]

01:00:51   those lines but it's still a couple [TS]

01:00:54   things lagged behind and you really got [TS]

01:00:56   to get everything over the line kind of [TS]

01:00:58   like the original iPhone did to sort of [TS]

01:01:00   enter the game to enter the realm of [TS]

01:01:03   devices that regular people will use [TS]

01:01:05   routinely day after day and stop [TS]

01:01:07   thinking about as a tech gadget and [TS]

01:01:09   start thinking about as an appliance [TS]

01:01:11   that you just expect to work all the [TS]

01:01:12   time yeah we're a long way from there [TS]

01:01:14   unfortunately but not for the other [TS]

01:01:16   cylinders Casey should get a Google home [TS]

01:01:18   right now with an echo I actually have [TS]

01:01:21   an Amazon echo on its way to me right [TS]

01:01:23   now [TS]

01:01:23   really wait what sorry I bury the lead [TS]

01:01:26   actually yes so a friend of mine Justin [TS]

01:01:30   Williams he might know from Glassport [TS]

01:01:32   among other things he was getting rid of [TS]

01:01:35   his echo and said to me you know rather [TS]

01:01:38   than trying to figure out you know who [TS]

01:01:40   to sell it to you know if I covered [TS]

01:01:41   postage he would send it my way [TS]

01:01:43   and so I baked ashed him the cost to [TS]

01:01:47   send it from him to me and it'll be here [TS]

01:01:50   sometime next week [TS]

01:01:51   probably after we record actually so [TS]

01:01:52   you're not gonna hear any more about [TS]

01:01:54   this for a couple of weeks at least I [TS]

01:01:55   still don't have any particular interest [TS]

01:01:57   in having an echo in my house but since [TS]

01:01:59   almost everyone I know has one in almost [TS]

01:02:01   everyone I know loves them I'm curious [TS]

01:02:04   to see what'll happen with it but start [TS]

01:02:06   asking kitchen questions or putting in [TS]

01:02:08   TV room and start asking me TV questions [TS]

01:02:10   by the way I can't test the home pod on [TS]

01:02:12   we questions I asked it who was the star [TS]

01:02:14   of a movie that's out now and I asked it [TS]

01:02:17   when a movie was released and I did both [TS]

01:02:19   of them in just the first way that [TS]

01:02:21   occurred to me the you know questions [TS]

01:02:25   that I have a good comparison to possess [TS]

01:02:26   my Google things all the time for the [TS]

01:02:28   who stars in the movie it it more or [TS]

01:02:31   less got it it basically read me a web [TS]

01:02:33   page but it read me the relevant portion [TS]

01:02:36   of the web page and it read me like [TS]

01:02:37   seven of the people that are in the [TS]

01:02:38   movie and then asked me if I want to [TS]

01:02:40   read the next two as well so it didn't [TS]

01:02:42   get like who the star was I think [TS]

01:02:43   there's an obvious answer like one [TS]

01:02:45   person but it it read the cast it didn't [TS]

01:02:47   read me that the title on the rating saw [TS]

01:02:48   I give it that one but it definitely [TS]

01:02:50   sounded like I found this on the web [TS]

01:02:51   about blah blah blah which is not as [TS]

01:02:53   direct as when I asked the question of [TS]

01:02:55   Google it just tells me straight up I [TS]

01:02:56   asked if the release date and it was [TS]

01:02:58   verbose about it it said the movie XYZ [TS]

01:03:00   was released on you know January 12th [TS]

01:03:02   but it got the right answer so I you [TS]

01:03:06   know I don't know if home pod has gotten [TS]

01:03:09   better about that then Siri mostly I'm [TS]

01:03:12   just enjoying the fact that I find it so [TS]

01:03:15   much more reliably able to hear me I [TS]

01:03:16   hate using Syria I don't you have my [TS]

01:03:18   watch I don't where am i watch it all [TS]

01:03:19   the time but I hate using Siri on my [TS]

01:03:21   phone because I activate it and I never [TS]

01:03:22   know if it went safe for me to start [TS]

01:03:24   talking and almost all the time I you [TS]

01:03:27   know hold down the home button and like [TS]

01:03:29   the little Siri thing appears on the [TS]

01:03:30   screen and I say whatever I want to say [TS]

01:03:33   right and I see the little waveform move [TS]

01:03:35   and while I'm talking it goes boo boo [TS]

01:03:38   loop that is exactly and then I'm like [TS]

01:03:43   well maybe it maybe it heard me anyway [TS]

01:03:45   so I finished what I'm saying [TS]

01:03:46   and it just stares at me and says how [TS]

01:03:48   can I help you you moved your waveform [TS]

01:03:51   in response to my speaking it's clear [TS]

01:03:53   that the audio was entering into the [TS]

01:03:55   system and you know jiggling but and so [TS]

01:03:57   I always have to end up saying [TS]

01:03:58   everything twice and I hate that it [TS]

01:03:59   makes me feel dumb and it's not a good [TS]

01:04:01   interaction if I wait for the bloop I [TS]

01:04:02   feel like I'm waiting there forever but [TS]

01:04:04   now now is it okay for me to talk it's [TS]

01:04:06   the worst talking to a cylinder is so [TS]

01:04:08   much better I don't care if it's ready [TS]

01:04:09   for me I just start talking and the home [TS]

01:04:12   pod definitely passes that test you know [TS]

01:04:14   not once they did not hear me not once [TS]

01:04:17   did it you know but bloop at me or do [TS]

01:04:20   anything or interrupt me in any way I [TS]

01:04:22   was able to say what I wanted to say and [TS]

01:04:24   it was able to [TS]

01:04:24   do what I wanted to do so you know [TS]

01:04:27   excited I think home pod definitely [TS]

01:04:28   crosses some thresholds that previously [TS]

01:04:30   hadn't been crossed by any Apple product [TS]

01:04:33   we are sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

01:04:36   rethink what your money can do visit [TS]

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01:05:19   should be able to get financial advice [TS]

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01:05:30   they don't get commissions for [TS]

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01:05:36   they believe is right for you and all [TS]

01:05:37   this was brought to you with very low [TS]

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01:05:49   to their team of licensed financial [TS]

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01:06:04   betterment comm slash ATP that's [TS]

01:06:07   betterment comm slash ATP betterment [TS]

01:06:09   rethink what your money can do we got [TS]

01:06:15   word and not us three specifically just [TS]

01:06:17   in general there was word spread a [TS]

01:06:20   couple of weeks ago I think that Apple [TS]

01:06:23   is going to pull a Snow Leopard [TS]

01:06:25   but for real this time like we really [TS]

01:06:28   mean it this time [TS]

01:06:29   for realsies pinkie swear there's an [TS]

01:06:33   article in Bloomberg that said Apple is [TS]

01:06:36   going to kind of pump the brakes [TS]

01:06:38   and it's going to well the the headline [TS]

01:06:41   is how Apple plans to root out bugs and [TS]

01:06:43   revamp iPhone software so there's a [TS]

01:06:47   quote that one of you pulled for my [TS]

01:06:49   convenience so thank you quote instead [TS]

01:06:51   of keeping engineers on a relentless [TS]

01:06:52   annual schedule and cramming features [TS]

01:06:54   into a single update Apple will start [TS]

01:06:55   focusing on the next two years of [TS]

01:06:57   updates for its iPhone and iPad [TS]

01:06:58   operating system according to people [TS]

01:07:00   familiar with the change the company [TS]

01:07:02   will continue to update its software [TS]

01:07:03   annually but internally engineers will [TS]

01:07:05   have more discretion to push back [TS]

01:07:06   features that aren't as polished to the [TS]

01:07:09   following year I don't know where to [TS]

01:07:15   start with this other than to say that [TS]

01:07:17   if this really is true sitting here now [TS]

01:07:21   anyway this sounds magical this sounds [TS]

01:07:24   like you know the the the glass of ice [TS]

01:07:26   water in hell and that's not to say that [TS]

01:07:29   things are that bad by any stretch but [TS]

01:07:30   what I mean is I really think that Apple [TS]

01:07:33   could stand to kind of pump the brakes [TS]

01:07:35   on new features and just work on [TS]

01:07:37   hardening things and I think that the [TS]

01:07:39   three of us are amongst many voices that [TS]

01:07:41   have been saying the same and when we [TS]

01:07:44   were doing Jason Snell's end-of-year [TS]

01:07:47   recap in survey or whatever he called it [TS]

01:07:50   we'll put a link in the show notes one [TS]

01:07:52   of the things that struck me as I was [TS]

01:07:54   reflecting on some of the things he'd [TS]

01:07:56   asked about like software quality is [TS]

01:07:57   that over the past year so during 2017 I [TS]

01:08:01   had had a lot of my like family members [TS]

01:08:03   and you know so most of my friends are [TS]

01:08:05   kind of pretty big nerds but most of my [TS]

01:08:08   family members are not and I had had [TS]

01:08:10   some family members say to me in so many [TS]

01:08:13   words holy crap this Apple stuff never [TS]

01:08:15   works anymore what happened to it just [TS]

01:08:16   working and that that really struck me [TS]

01:08:21   and and I mentioned that to Jason I [TS]

01:08:23   think he actually used that in the [TS]

01:08:24   report card and it seems like it's time [TS]

01:08:28   that the perception anyway whether or [TS]

01:08:30   not it's reality the perception is and [TS]

01:08:31   I'm very much in this camp that software [TS]

01:08:33   quality's really kind of taking a turn [TS]

01:08:35   for the worse so it's it's easy to blame [TS]

01:08:40   the relentless speed of new features for [TS]

01:08:43   maybe that being the problem maybe that [TS]

01:08:45   maybe that's just that they need to not [TS]

01:08:47   be not have a litany of new features to [TS]

01:08:49   release every WWC [TS]

01:08:51   so perhaps slowing down on new and shiny [TS]

01:08:55   will give everyone time to improve the [TS]

01:08:59   old end well busted but I don't know [TS]

01:09:03   it's it's hard because I've worked in [TS]

01:09:05   big software companies but not quite [TS]

01:09:06   this big John you can be the adult in [TS]

01:09:08   the room as you always are so I'll come [TS]

01:09:10   to you now is Marco Marco how do you [TS]

01:09:13   feel about this first let's have the [TS]

01:09:14   children discussing you and me are at [TS]

01:09:17   the kiddie table [TS]

01:09:18   and Thanksgiving so let's let's talk [TS]

01:09:20   amongst ourselves Marco already talked [TS]

01:09:21   about this for an hour in another [TS]

01:09:22   podcast now I ever had this time to [TS]

01:09:24   listen that I known as the time well I [TS]

01:09:26   was trying to figure out so thank you [TS]

01:09:29   all right so anyway so can you give us [TS]

01:09:31   the chief summarizer and chief version [TS]

01:09:33   then of that argument yeah basically [TS]

01:09:34   this is great to hear I'm I'm happy that [TS]

01:09:38   this you know and you know this seems [TS]

01:09:40   like it has multiple sources and [TS]

01:09:42   everything it's a probe it probably [TS]

01:09:43   happened this this meeting or this [TS]

01:09:45   change but I don't think it really means [TS]

01:09:48   much of anything yet it's very much show [TS]

01:09:50   you like ok that sounds promising let's [TS]

01:09:52   see what happens you know let's wait and [TS]

01:09:53   see what the actual results of this are [TS]

01:09:55   I do think that the the annual schedule [TS]

01:09:59   of heavy feature filled releases on [TS]

01:10:02   almost all their platforms has been a [TS]

01:10:05   significant contributor to the recent [TS]

01:10:08   quality issues you know I just I don't [TS]

01:10:09   think there I don't I think from a [TS]

01:10:12   little bit we've heard here and there it [TS]

01:10:15   really does seem like they don't have [TS]

01:10:17   they don't devote enough time to bug [TS]

01:10:20   fixing and refinement before the [TS]

01:10:22   engineers on most of these projects have [TS]

01:10:24   to go to the next thing I have to build [TS]

01:10:26   the next the next marketing features [TS]

01:10:27   build the next headlining features or [TS]

01:10:29   you know get to the next major version [TS]

01:10:30   like there there's not a lot of time in [TS]

01:10:33   an annual cycle for refinement and bug [TS]

01:10:36   fixes and so if indeed they're moving to [TS]

01:10:38   a two-year cycle for major efforts like [TS]

01:10:41   and this isn't saying that they're gonna [TS]

01:10:42   like only release iOS every two years or [TS]

01:10:44   whatever it's just like you know major [TS]

01:10:46   features will now take will now be [TS]

01:10:48   allowed to take two years that's that [TS]

01:10:50   sounds good [TS]

01:10:51   I don't know how different that is from [TS]

01:10:53   how it has been though I mean we know [TS]

01:10:55   you know certain things like a PFS like [TS]

01:10:57   that wasn't that didn't take one year [TS]

01:10:58   like that was like major features have [TS]

01:11:02   always been allowed to take more than a [TS]

01:11:03   year but you know [TS]

01:11:04   it's I don't I don't know what exactly [TS]

01:11:07   this is allegedly changing and I think [TS]

01:11:10   we're not really going to know whether [TS]

01:11:13   it's you know working or whether it's [TS]

01:11:15   having a real effect for probably a [TS]

01:11:17   couple years like we're gonna have to [TS]

01:11:18   just see how the software evolved over [TS]

01:11:20   the next couple of years and kind of see [TS]

01:11:22   like it doesn't seem better now or not [TS]

01:11:25   I've been in a lot of big software [TS]

01:11:28   companies and over the years I've seen [TS]

01:11:30   III can't speak to what it's like inside [TS]

01:11:33   Apple but I have to think that it's not [TS]

01:11:35   so incredibly different from other large [TS]

01:11:37   companies especially these days and the [TS]

01:11:41   thing that happens in companies to do [TS]

01:11:44   stuff with software or technology in [TS]

01:11:45   general and probably in any companies [TS]

01:11:48   that the higher you go up the the [TS]

01:11:50   management chain the more the incentives [TS]

01:11:52   are structured for those people to make [TS]

01:11:56   it seem like things are going well and [TS]

01:11:59   to themselves believe that things are [TS]

01:12:03   going well but eventually something will [TS]

01:12:05   happen that ripples alway up the entire [TS]

01:12:08   org chart that you know me from down at [TS]

01:12:11   the bottom of the org chart I always saw [TS]

01:12:13   those those unfortunate things that [TS]

01:12:15   happened as opportunities that must be [TS]

01:12:17   seized upon by those in the lower ranks [TS]

01:12:19   because that's your chance to say you [TS]

01:12:23   people higher up have thought [TS]

01:12:24   everything's been great but we've been [TS]

01:12:26   down here telling you that X is really a [TS]

01:12:29   problem and now those chickens are come [TS]

01:12:31   home to roost [TS]

01:12:31   so let's hell you know come together and [TS]

01:12:34   have a discussion about how we're gonna [TS]

01:12:36   change things right and this cycle just [TS]

01:12:38   repeats itself like it never never [TS]

01:12:40   actually like fixes all your problems [TS]

01:12:41   but basically you know you gather [TS]

01:12:44   together you say we're gonna change how [TS]

01:12:45   we do things in a way that will prevent [TS]

01:12:47   things like this from happening and you [TS]

01:12:48   do it like you make the actual change [TS]

01:12:50   you change procedures you reorganize [TS]

01:12:52   people you change priorities you do you [TS]

01:12:54   know almost exactly the same thing to [TS]

01:12:56   talk about here you know lengthen [TS]

01:12:57   schedules give people who are closer to [TS]

01:13:00   the actual work more authority to push [TS]

01:13:04   back on deadlines or I do you stop [TS]

01:13:06   setting unrealistic internal deadlines [TS]

01:13:08   just so some middle manager can get a [TS]

01:13:10   bonus this year like you do all that [TS]

01:13:11   stuff right and it works like it's not [TS]

01:13:15   like it doesn't work it works like you [TS]

01:13:17   make things better [TS]

01:13:19   there are the countervailing forces of [TS]

01:13:21   things slowing down and everything also [TS]

01:13:23   happened but then it just builds back up [TS]

01:13:25   again you get into a happy place again [TS]

01:13:26   and then you know get the same incentive [TS]

01:13:29   structures cause people to press hard [TS]

01:13:31   and set aggressive internal deadlines [TS]

01:13:33   and fear of competition makes you add [TS]

01:13:36   lots of features and so on and so forth [TS]

01:13:37   and you get it and then another crisis [TS]

01:13:39   happens and people seize on it and like [TS]

01:13:40   this is just a cycle of any large group [TS]

01:13:43   of people doing things and that's not [TS]

01:13:46   stay I'm not trying to be like cynical [TS]

01:13:47   about it I agree with marco and almost [TS]

01:13:49   everyone else has looked at this is like [TS]

01:13:50   yes this is exactly what we want Apple [TS]

01:13:53   to do and I really believe that a [TS]

01:13:55   they're really gonna do it and be that [TS]

01:13:57   it will really help right [TS]

01:13:59   I think this same cycle has happened [TS]

01:14:03   inside Apple many times in the past and [TS]

01:14:05   it will happen many times in the future [TS]

01:14:07   and I just think we're kind of in you [TS]

01:14:09   know in like a downswing that hopefully [TS]

01:14:13   is about to take a turn into an upswing [TS]

01:14:15   so I see it as positive and like there's [TS]

01:14:17   an entire industry around like how to [TS]

01:14:20   not go through this you know roller [TS]

01:14:22   coaster cycle and how to you know get [TS]

01:14:23   sustainable growth and just do great [TS]

01:14:25   things for ever and ever and it's just a [TS]

01:14:26   constant struggle to get any larger [TS]

01:14:28   group of people to do that maybe Apple [TS]

01:14:31   that's another topic we won't get to [TS]

01:14:32   today but like you know people have [TS]

01:14:34   rose-colored glasses about the whatever [TS]

01:14:35   they think the heyday of Apple was and [TS]

01:14:37   how well it was able to execute during [TS]

01:14:39   those times and I think we will talk [TS]

01:14:40   about that on a future show but in [TS]

01:14:43   general this this quality focused thing [TS]

01:14:45   I think is positive real and we'll have [TS]

01:14:49   real results but we'll find ourselves [TS]

01:14:51   back yet here in about ten years at [TS]

01:14:53   minimum or a maximum rather and that's [TS]

01:14:56   just the nature of the beast and we just [TS]

01:14:58   need to learn to learn to write it out [TS]

01:15:00   so I'm I'm optimistic I you know what I [TS]

01:15:04   keep saying i optimistic until I see [TS]

01:15:06   what they do with the Mac Pro because if [TS]

01:15:07   they disappoint me though they're all [TS]

01:15:08   really crushed me but I think I may be [TS]

01:15:10   unique in that regard well but and the [TS]

01:15:12   Mac Pro is actually a really good you [TS]

01:15:15   know thing to mention here it's like [TS]

01:15:16   they told us directly like officially on [TS]

01:15:19   the record that they're working on a [TS]

01:15:20   great new Mac Pro that this you know [TS]

01:15:22   that our Mac Pro problem will be solved [TS]

01:15:24   and honestly half of us I think our Mac [TS]

01:15:26   Pro problem was solved by the iMac Pro [TS]

01:15:27   it's pretty great [TS]

01:15:28   but like you know but for like the the [TS]

01:15:30   you know the modular upgradable tower [TS]

01:15:32   or module upgradeable Mac Pro I don't [TS]

01:15:34   know if Tuvia tower that's still a giant [TS]

01:15:36   unknown they said they promised it will [TS]

01:15:38   be better but until it actually comes [TS]

01:15:41   out we don't know that it will be better [TS]

01:15:42   and so like it's like great uh we know [TS]

01:15:44   that was great talk to get but we [TS]

01:15:46   haven't seen the actions yet so we can't [TS]

01:15:49   really say whether that's you know an [TS]

01:15:52   actual positive thing or not and and [TS]

01:15:56   this one more minor point is that we've [TS]

01:15:58   talked about this in the past as well [TS]

01:15:59   it's particularly for the Mac where like [TS]

01:16:02   the phone obviously they're still doing [TS]

01:16:04   great in the phone and they have fierce [TS]

01:16:05   competition in the phone right so I bet [TS]

01:16:08   they're gonna still be running pretty [TS]

01:16:09   hard on the phone front and so far they [TS]

01:16:11   have been running hard they've been [TS]

01:16:12   chipping good phones so good on them [TS]

01:16:14   right so obviously the highest priority [TS]

01:16:15   to do a good job on it you know I don't [TS]

01:16:18   expect that to change that much the OS [TS]

01:16:20   that runs in the phone you know the push [TS]

01:16:23   features out here and there I think [TS]

01:16:24   they've they don't feel as much pressure [TS]

01:16:26   from the competition as they did back [TS]

01:16:27   when they had really you know back when [TS]

01:16:29   Android was just so far ahead of them in [TS]

01:16:31   terms of notifications and stuff and [TS]

01:16:33   multitasking and stuff like that I think [TS]

01:16:34   that you know it's it's a closer race [TS]

01:16:36   now but the Mac the the fantasy [TS]

01:16:38   opportunity that the low-level engineers [TS]

01:16:40   would love to seize upon us like boy [TS]

01:16:42   imagine if we could have you know sets [TS]

01:16:46   of people permanently responsible to for [TS]

01:16:49   every important part of the system and [TS]

01:16:50   those people's just sat there and drain [TS]

01:16:52   their bug queues and like improve [TS]

01:16:54   performance and test coverage and drain [TS]

01:16:55   their bug queues for like three years to [TS]

01:16:58   make and why would you do that how can [TS]

01:16:59   you afford to do that because the max [TS]

01:17:01   competition is not moving as fast as the [TS]

01:17:04   the phones in the tablets competition [TS]

01:17:05   right [TS]

01:17:06   not as much action is happening down [TS]

01:17:08   there and if you're trying to try to [TS]

01:17:10   find a role for the Mac in the company [TS]

01:17:12   it could one possibility as we discussed [TS]

01:17:14   and shows in the past is it to make it [TS]

01:17:16   the super reliable bulletproof [TS]

01:17:18   industrial-grade you know never crashes [TS]

01:17:21   never does the wrong thing just does [TS]

01:17:24   what it's supposed to do [TS]

01:17:26   reliably make that the reputation of the [TS]

01:17:29   Mac make it seem you know you're in [TS]

01:17:32   exchange for boringness and for slightly [TS]

01:17:34   slower or perhaps you know much slower [TS]

01:17:36   rate of change you get massive [TS]

01:17:38   reliability so staff up the Mac teams [TS]

01:17:41   drain those bug queues improve your test [TS]

01:17:43   coverage improve performance and memory [TS]

01:17:45   usage and all those that [TS]

01:17:46   of things you know this is assuming [TS]

01:17:50   there's no major components still need [TS]

01:17:52   to be written because there may still be [TS]

01:17:53   things lurking in there and then do that [TS]

01:17:56   for a couple of years to restore the max [TS]

01:17:58   reputation and to make it more [TS]

01:18:01   attractive to the people who are most [TS]

01:18:03   likely to use the Mac before you go on [TS]

01:18:05   to the next cycle whatever that is the [TS]

01:18:06   marzipan thing and now it's time for the [TS]

01:18:08   Mac take its next evolution time to get [TS]

01:18:10   radical again I don't think that will [TS]

01:18:12   happen but that is one way that you know [TS]

01:18:15   were the were the people who seized on [TS]

01:18:17   this opportunity able to really seize on [TS]

01:18:19   it I'm sure that's the dream of lots of [TS]

01:18:23   low level people who work on the Mac and [TS]

01:18:24   who are sick of ignoring your bugs [TS]

01:18:26   justice you are sick of them ignoring [TS]

01:18:28   them I mean this is definitely a good [TS]

01:18:30   thing I don't see any way we can spin it [TS]

01:18:33   as a bad thing but fast forward to what [TS]

01:18:35   episode are we on like 265 fast word [TS]

01:18:37   episode I don't know 3:10 but Phenom I'm [TS]

01:18:44   excited about this as much as I'm I'm [TS]

01:18:45   joking around I'm really excited about [TS]

01:18:47   this I think this is a good sign that [TS]

01:18:49   that Apple's seeing we're seeing and [TS]

01:18:52   it's also tough too because you know we [TS]

01:18:55   don't get to see all the like I don't [TS]

01:18:57   know if analytics is the right word for [TS]

01:18:58   it but like the analytics data that that [TS]

01:19:00   Apple sees and they may see that that [TS]

01:19:02   you know hard crashes and software are [TS]

01:19:05   trending down over the years and and I [TS]

01:19:09   think that that that very well could be [TS]

01:19:12   true but it seems to me that it's the [TS]

01:19:15   kind of Wiggly stuff that's that's [TS]

01:19:16   really been letting us down lately like [TS]

01:19:19   Siri just not working when you want it [TS]

01:19:21   to for example let alone just you know [TS]

01:19:23   answering the question incorrectly I [TS]

01:19:25   don't know it's tough and it's it's I [TS]

01:19:28   don't know what to make of it but no [TS]

01:19:31   Steven Sinofsky is that how I pronounce [TS]

01:19:33   that I think something like that wrote a [TS]

01:19:34   tweet storm about this and we'll put a [TS]

01:19:37   link to either the tweet storm or he [TS]

01:19:39   eventually wrote a blog post about it [TS]

01:19:40   we'll put some sort of link in the show [TS]

01:19:41   in the show notes but I wanted to call [TS]

01:19:43   out a few tweets of his he was a he was [TS]

01:19:45   a Microsoft engineer and headed up a lot [TS]

01:19:50   of their bigger software products if not [TS]

01:19:52   most of software I don't know exactly [TS]

01:19:54   where he was when when he left Microsoft [TS]

01:19:56   but supposed to say the guy knows what [TS]

01:19:58   he's talking about and he knows what [TS]

01:19:59   he's talking I when I come [TS]

01:20:00   to delivering software to lots and lots [TS]

01:20:03   and lots of people and so in some of the [TS]

01:20:05   tweets he wrote and this was a tweet [TS]

01:20:07   number 28 of his tweets to him I know [TS]

01:20:09   whatever [TS]

01:20:09   anywhere has delivered a general-purpose [TS]

01:20:11   piece of software and hardware at scale [TS]

01:20:13   to a billion people delivering such a [TS]

01:20:15   broad robust consistent experience we [TS]

01:20:17   don't have a measure for what it means [TS]

01:20:19   to be quote high quality quote I can say [TS]

01:20:21   that in any absolute sense Apple has [TS]

01:20:23   exceeded everyone else and that's kinda [TS]

01:20:24   what I'm talking about right like you [TS]

01:20:26   know it may be that that really the [TS]

01:20:28   software quality is is good it's getting [TS]

01:20:30   better but it's in terms of crashes [TS]

01:20:33   perhaps and we've talked about this more [TS]

01:20:34   than once on the show but maybe it's [TS]

01:20:37   getting worse in some of the the kind of [TS]

01:20:39   gray area that's harder it's harder to [TS]

01:20:41   track Steven continues in tweet 31 but [TS]

01:20:44   what happens to a team as complexity [TS]

01:20:46   evolves is simply the challenge of [TS]

01:20:47   coordination and more importantly [TS]

01:20:48   consistency or leveling of decisions [TS]

01:20:51   across a complex system this is [TS]

01:20:52   particularly acute if the bulk of the [TS]

01:20:54   team has only known the previous few [TS]

01:20:55   years of success he continues in 32 so [TS]

01:20:58   Apple will just renew their engineering [TS]

01:20:59   process it means thinking about how risk [TS]

01:21:02   is analyzed how schedules are [TS]

01:21:03   constructed how priorities are set this [TS]

01:21:05   is literally what it means to run a [TS]

01:21:06   project and what we are all paying them [TS]

01:21:08   to do so in conclusion so to me on Apple [TS]

01:21:11   this is Steven to me on Apple even as an [TS]

01:21:13   outsider I feel confident saying that [TS]

01:21:14   this isn't reactionary or crisis or [TS]

01:21:17   response to externalities importantly it [TS]

01:21:19   isn't a massive pivot or a student body [TS]

01:21:21   left [TS]

01:21:22   it's a methodical in predictable [TS]

01:21:23   evolution of an extremely robust and [TS]

01:21:25   proven system so the short short version [TS]

01:21:28   is hey when you have a lot of people [TS]

01:21:29   writing a lot of code for a lot of [TS]

01:21:31   different systems every once in a while [TS]

01:21:33   just like John said you're gonna have to [TS]

01:21:34   sit back and take stock and say we got a [TS]

01:21:36   we got a tweak a few things and that's [TS]

01:21:38   what they're doing I think what Sinofsky [TS]

01:21:39   missed is the cyclic nature of just like [TS]

01:21:41   yes this is this is totally routine [TS]

01:21:43   thing that happens and that it happens [TS]

01:21:45   repeatedly like I don't know I get that [TS]

01:21:48   that forms a kind of a rollercoaster [TS]

01:21:49   that people don't like they'd rather see [TS]

01:21:51   just like a gentle slope from you know [TS]

01:21:53   with constant improvement I've never [TS]

01:21:56   seen that happen in the real world but [TS]

01:21:59   the cyclic nature of it can make you can [TS]

01:22:01   make you jaded if you are a long time [TS]

01:22:02   employee or a long time engineer and be [TS]

01:22:04   like yeah this always happens or [TS]

01:22:06   whatever but that you know the problems [TS]

01:22:08   just come back I think that's true but [TS]

01:22:11   that's but it's better if you don't do [TS]

01:22:14   the [TS]

01:22:14   banan rollercoaster just becomes a down [TS]

01:22:16   rollercoaster there just goes down [TS]

01:22:17   forever and you never do make that [TS]

01:22:18   adjustment so I've you know I fully [TS]

01:22:20   believe that these type of adjustments [TS]

01:22:22   have gone on an apple for the entire [TS]

01:22:24   life of the company and will continue to [TS]

01:22:25   go on and you just you know you just [TS]

01:22:27   have to roll with it but I'm ready I'm [TS]

01:22:29   ready for an upswing I think everyone is [TS]

01:22:31   yep big time [TS]

01:22:33   Barton Meeks writes in do you think the [TS]

01:22:35   modular Mac Pro will provide a solution [TS]

01:22:37   to a Mac Mini update at a reasonable [TS]

01:22:39   price nope nope Alastair Campbell writes [TS]

01:22:42   in you've alluded to a negative effect [TS]

01:22:44   of running movies at the wrong framerate [TS]

01:22:45   but I must have missed the original [TS]

01:22:47   explanation I'm wondering if it is [TS]

01:22:49   better to hand break blu-rays at 24 or [TS]

01:22:51   30 frames per second what's the good [TS]

01:22:54   digital backup for you and John you seem [TS]

01:22:56   to be the most opinionated about this so [TS]

01:22:57   do you want to take this one so the [TS]

01:22:59   negative effect of running things at the [TS]

01:23:00   wrong framerate is if they're not nice [TS]

01:23:02   multiples of each other and has to show [TS]

01:23:04   frames for different amounts of time but [TS]

01:23:06   the video content we have expects you to [TS]

01:23:08   show a refrain from equal amount of time [TS]

01:23:09   whether it's one thirtieth of a second [TS]

01:23:11   or one twenty-fourth of a second or [TS]

01:23:12   whatever if you show some frames longer [TS]

01:23:14   than you show other frames it can make [TS]

01:23:15   motion look stuttery because it's it's [TS]

01:23:17   like long long short short short long or [TS]

01:23:19   whatever it doesn't you might not notice [TS]

01:23:21   then lots of still images and maybe you [TS]

01:23:22   don't notice that much in motion but it [TS]

01:23:23   doesn't quite look right so that is the [TS]

01:23:25   negative effect you don't want that it [TS]

01:23:29   asking whether it's better to handbrake [TS]

01:23:31   to to encode blu-rays at 24 or 30 you [TS]

01:23:34   should encode them at whatever the the [TS]

01:23:35   frame rate of the original source [TS]

01:23:37   material is so if it's TV show and it's [TS]

01:23:39   a twenty nine point nine seven whatever [TS]

01:23:40   encoded at that frame rate if it's a [TS]

01:23:42   movie and it's the 24 encoded at that [TS]

01:23:43   frame rate don't do any kind of [TS]

01:23:45   conversion whatever the source framer it [TS]

01:23:47   is keep that and what's a good digital [TS]

01:23:49   backup I'm assuming you mean like take [TS]

01:23:52   it off of your class discs and put it [TS]

01:23:54   somewhere you have to just rip the data [TS]

01:23:56   exactly as is no transcoding no anything [TS]

01:23:58   if you really want to have a digital [TS]

01:23:59   backup use something like make MKV or [TS]

01:24:01   whatever to just pull the bit the bits [TS]

01:24:02   off the disk exactly as is with no [TS]

01:24:05   conversion of format whatsoever and that [TS]

01:24:07   is the only digital backup then you can [TS]

01:24:09   have of stuff like this the best digital [TS]

01:24:11   backup is perhaps to buy all these [TS]

01:24:12   things in the cloud and then you don't [TS]

01:24:14   have to worry about storing them but [TS]

01:24:15   then you have to worry about the company [TS]

01:24:16   going out of business and you're having [TS]

01:24:17   no way to watch that stuff anymore which [TS]

01:24:19   leads us into our next question [TS]

01:24:20   the next question is from Benjamin [TS]

01:24:23   ischium John you've mentioned that you [TS]

01:24:25   prefer ebooks to paper books how do you [TS]

01:24:26   deal with DRM slowly making your [TS]

01:24:28   books inaccessible over time Benjamin [TS]

01:24:30   continues I quote unquote own a couple [TS]

01:24:32   of palm digital media books that I'll [TS]

01:24:34   never be able to read again so this is [TS]

01:24:37   tricky it's a lot there was a lot of [TS]

01:24:39   churn in the e-book business early on [TS]

01:24:41   some people who made in Soul the ebooks [TS]

01:24:44   no longer do so I worked for prom [TS]

01:24:46   digital media back when we have the [TS]

01:24:48   largest ebook store in the world if you [TS]

01:24:50   can believe it this is before Hamazon [TS]

01:24:51   entered the game and many many things [TS]

01:24:55   went wrong there but anyway they were [TS]

01:24:57   DRM in comfort and if you purchase them [TS]

01:24:59   from the store you could read them in an [TS]

01:25:00   application that was ported to all sorts [TS]

01:25:02   of different platforms so it eventually [TS]

01:25:05   went down the drain and that business of [TS]

01:25:07   selling ebooks went down the drain with [TS]

01:25:09   it more or less and eventually you get [TS]

01:25:10   to the point where the you know the iOS [TS]

01:25:13   reader application which existed for [TS]

01:25:15   many years like doesn't even launch [TS]

01:25:16   anymore I think it's probably because [TS]

01:25:17   it's 32-bit these days so you've got [TS]

01:25:19   these DRM encumbered ebooks that you [TS]

01:25:22   quote-unquote own that you can no longer [TS]

01:25:24   read or that you can only read on like a [TS]

01:25:25   really old Mac that can still run the [TS]

01:25:27   role to reader software or whatever so [TS]

01:25:29   what to do how do you deal with that I [TS]

01:25:31   do still prefer ebooks just for the [TS]

01:25:33   convenience or whatever I understand the [TS]

01:25:35   limitations they provide but I think the [TS]

01:25:36   convenience is worth it for me in [TS]

01:25:39   general these days you're buying ebooks [TS]

01:25:41   from one of the modern vendors most of [TS]

01:25:45   them there's some shady way for you to [TS]

01:25:48   crack their DRM and to make them [TS]

01:25:50   unencumbered [TS]

01:25:51   so you're still stuck with the format I [TS]

01:25:53   can convert them to ePub or whatever but [TS]

01:25:55   50 years ago you want to read your epub [TS]

01:25:57   isn't like we have nothing they can read [TS]

01:25:58   bub epubs you know HTML died and the you [TS]

01:26:01   know the fire of the nuclear Armageddon [TS]

01:26:04   and whatever you know who knows you [TS]

01:26:05   don't be able to read your epub so the [TS]

01:26:06   point is it's not DRM encumbered at [TS]

01:26:08   least you're only limited by the format [TS]

01:26:09   for palm those are media books [TS]

01:26:12   specifically I don't know if there's a [TS]

01:26:14   way to crack them you can try the [TS]

01:26:17   application calibre which i think is [TS]

01:26:19   used to crack a whole bunch of the the [TS]

01:26:22   Amazon stuff with certain plugins or [TS]

01:26:23   whatever but plums as a media ebooks [TS]

01:26:26   were originally encrypted with your [TS]

01:26:28   credit card number they used to buy them [TS]

01:26:30   and if you if you don't know the credit [TS]

01:26:32   card number with modern computing [TS]

01:26:35   hardware I can tell you that it should [TS]

01:26:36   be feasible to brute-force crack them [TS]

01:26:39   but I don't know because this is a long [TS]

01:26:41   time [TS]

01:26:42   I don't know of any actual application [TS]

01:26:44   that understands enough about the DRM to [TS]

01:26:47   actually brute force it but I believe [TS]

01:26:48   that you could in reasonable amount of [TS]

01:26:50   time literally brute force crack it's [TS]

01:26:51   much easier if you just know your your [TS]

01:26:52   credit card number the palm eBook format [TS]

01:26:55   was actually very simple so if you can [TS]

01:26:57   get the data out you can easily convert [TS]

01:26:59   it to ePub or some other more modern [TS]

01:27:01   format I know that doesn't help too much [TS]

01:27:03   I'm sure I myself have some purchased [TS]

01:27:07   palm digital media books and peanut [TS]

01:27:09   press ebooks that I can no longer read [TS]

01:27:11   but in most cases I also have those [TS]

01:27:15   books in epub from a different source [TS]

01:27:16   and also in paper sitting to the right [TS]

01:27:19   than me right here so if you're really [TS]

01:27:20   worried about it buy the paper copy and [TS]

01:27:22   don't keep them in the basement that'll [TS]

01:27:24   flood because you'll lose your paper [TS]

01:27:25   books that way nothing you'd know thanks [TS]

01:27:29   to our sponsors this week betterment [TS]

01:27:31   Squarespace and simple contacts and we [TS]

01:27:33   will talk to you next week now the show [TS]

01:27:38   is over they didn't even need to begin [TS]

01:27:41   because it was accidental accidental [TS]

01:27:49   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:27:52   him [TS]

01:27:52   because it was accidentally was [TS]

01:27:56   accidental you can find a s ey L is s so [TS]

01:28:12   that's K sealless ma accion AR m auntie [TS]

01:28:17   Marco Arment know what made me think of [TS]

01:28:40   this to be honest but obviously I've [TS]

01:28:42   been going back and forth about you know [TS]

01:28:44   if I'm going to buy a car which I'm not [TS]

01:28:46   convinced I am actually what should I [TS]

01:28:47   buy should I get a Jeep Wrangler should [TS]

01:28:49   I get it go go far should I get [TS]

01:28:51   something else entirely a new BMW etc [TS]

01:28:53   and it occurred to me that I think to me [TS]

01:28:57   or to some degree I am as well but [TS]

01:28:59   particularly you to have self pigeonhole [TS]

01:29:02   to have pigeon-holed yourselves and to [TS]

01:29:04   specific you know kinds of cars Marco [TS]

01:29:06   you've basically said that until [TS]

01:29:07   something dramatic changes you're gonna [TS]

01:29:09   be a Tesla owner until the end of time [TS]

01:29:11   John you know unless something dramatic [TS]

01:29:14   changes like you know money raining from [TS]

01:29:16   the skies right over your house yo your [TS]

01:29:18   seemed to be an accord guy for at least [TS]

01:29:20   the foreseeable future so I have for [TS]

01:29:23   each of you a question and I'll start [TS]

01:29:26   with Marco you know if if you couldn't [TS]

01:29:29   buy a Tesla and then I'll even broaden [TS]

01:29:32   it to if you couldn't buy an electric [TS]

01:29:35   car and and you've made a very plain [TS]

01:29:36   that that's what you prefer but if you [TS]

01:29:38   couldn't buy an electric car just out of [TS]

01:29:40   curiosity what would you buy so I saw [TS]

01:29:43   this in the notes earlier I've been [TS]

01:29:44   thinking about it this evening and and [TS]

01:29:46   unfortunately I don't really know enough [TS]

01:29:48   about like what cars are available these [TS]

01:29:50   days to have a great answer yeah what [TS]

01:29:53   has happened but I'll tell you you know [TS]

01:29:54   very high on the list would be the new [TS]

01:29:56   m5 because you know even though it [TS]

01:29:59   doesn't have a transmission I would like [TS]

01:30:01   I really enjoy having a fast large sedan [TS]

01:30:06   now there's lots of options within that [TS]

01:30:07   you know obviously you know and I should [TS]

01:30:10   probably list in this list something [TS]

01:30:13   from like Mercedes or Porsche something [TS]

01:30:15   but I just don't know their lineups at [TS]

01:30:16   all [TS]

01:30:17   ow d might be somewhere on the list [TS]

01:30:20   because honestly one thing I really [TS]

01:30:22   enjoy about the Tesla that I didn't [TS]

01:30:23   expect to enjoy as much as I do is [TS]

01:30:25   having the nice big hatchback trunk and [TS]

01:30:28   so I know like the Audi a7 is kind of [TS]

01:30:32   similar in like size and and trunk [TS]

01:30:34   nature and also hideous yes it's pretty [TS]

01:30:37   bad looking so yeah oh you're so I would [TS]

01:30:43   probably I would probably at least give [TS]

01:30:44   that like a look just to see if I could [TS]

01:30:46   tolerate it because I do I do like [TS]

01:30:47   having a large facet and that is also a [TS]

01:30:49   hatchback without being a wagon or an [TS]

01:30:51   SUV or a crossover so so that's great so [TS]

01:30:55   yeah probably on the list would be you [TS]

01:30:56   know maybe look at the a7 maybe you know [TS]

01:30:59   maybe look at the new m5 I would [TS]

01:31:00   probably look at you know whatever [TS]

01:31:02   mercedes offered in the same thing I [TS]

01:31:05   also might just consider a regular 5 [TS]

01:31:06   series like a 550 or even a whatever the [TS]

01:31:08   540 is these days I might look at those [TS]

01:31:11   because you know the the m5 was it was a [TS]

01:31:15   fun time in my life but I have now grown [TS]

01:31:19   to appreciate the value of a quiet car [TS]

01:31:23   I like having a quiet car that is also [TS]

01:31:25   fast I feel like I don't need to shout [TS]

01:31:28   to the world how fast my car is with [TS]

01:31:31   noise but ultimately when I Drive other [TS]

01:31:36   cars now like I so I went on a trip [TS]

01:31:39   which is why were a couple days late and [TS]

01:31:41   on the trip I rented a Nissan Maxima and [TS]

01:31:43   it was a perfectly nice car it had lots [TS]

01:31:46   of great features you know lots of a [TS]

01:31:47   nice little luxuries inside I'm very [TS]

01:31:48   happy I rented it we were somewhere very [TS]

01:31:50   cold and I was having the heated seats [TS]

01:31:51   but like it just feels like going so far [TS]

01:31:55   backwards to both have a gas car and to [TS]

01:31:59   have some like little entertainment [TS]

01:32:01   system on like a six inch screen with [TS]

01:32:03   like you know running basically DOS feel [TS]

01:32:07   to me and when I occasionally have to [TS]

01:32:09   drive Tiff's car which is a modern BMW [TS]

01:32:11   3-series [TS]

01:32:12   it doesn't feel modern to me anymore [TS]

01:32:14   like it feels old like using I Drive you [TS]

01:32:17   know everything about a gas car [TS]

01:32:19   like you know starting it up putting it [TS]

01:32:20   in gear and haven't remember like [TS]

01:32:22   actually like turn it off and lock it [TS]

01:32:24   like an animal yeah like it's it it [TS]

01:32:28   doesn't it just doesn't feel great to me [TS]

01:32:30   so I think if I had to get a gas car [TS]

01:32:33   again I might actually go lower end than [TS]

01:32:38   like an m5 or something because I don't [TS]

01:32:41   get the enjoyment out of that anymore [TS]

01:32:43   that I used to like it's almost it's [TS]

01:32:47   it's like well this is I was gonna say [TS]

01:32:49   it's like you know getting back with [TS]

01:32:51   your high school girlfriend but I don't [TS]

01:32:53   really have any basis on which to say [TS]

01:32:54   that because I never really had [TS]

01:32:56   girlfriends in high school because I was [TS]

01:32:57   just terrible at everything so but like [TS]

01:33:00   it's like I've moved past that in my [TS]

01:33:02   life now like I I had a great time with [TS]

01:33:04   loud fast cars but now I'm perfectly [TS]

01:33:07   happy with quiet boring more comfortable [TS]

01:33:10   cars that also happen to be fast so I [TS]

01:33:13   would probably just get something fast [TS]

01:33:16   but not too ridiculous that's why I'm [TS]

01:33:18   thinking maybe like a 550 or something [TS]

01:33:20   like that [TS]

01:33:20   mmm sure enough I I want to hate the new [TS]

01:33:25   m5 because it does use the ZF 8-speed it [TS]

01:33:29   from not mistaken which is very good but [TS]

01:33:31   I I can't believe the m5 can't be had [TS]

01:33:34   with a stick anymore but oh my word all [TS]

01:33:36   the initial reviews of the new m5 zero [TS]

01:33:41   to 60 in like between 2.8 and three [TS]

01:33:43   point two seconds depending on who you [TS]

01:33:44   ask like it's a ninety million pound [TS]

01:33:48   full-size sedan going to 60 in three [TS]

01:33:51   seconds like I I probably have mentioned [TS]

01:33:53   this on the show 44 times but when I was [TS]

01:33:55   a kid and really getting into cars I [TS]

01:33:57   remember that like having a 0-60 time in [TS]

01:34:00   the four second range was like [TS]

01:34:02   Lamborghini and Ferrari territory like [TS]

01:34:04   nobody could get to 60 in four seconds [TS]

01:34:06   and here it is this m5 will do it in [TS]

01:34:09   maybe two worst case low threes like [TS]

01:34:12   yeah god it's just bananas I'll tell you [TS]

01:34:15   what like you know maybe maybe one other [TS]

01:34:17   direction that I might want to go is [TS]

01:34:18   like you know if I can't get my nice big [TS]

01:34:20   comfort boat from space like maybe if if [TS]

01:34:25   Tiff's car could become the family car [TS]

01:34:26   that could hold a lot and be big then [TS]

01:34:29   then maybe I would I would do something [TS]

01:34:31   that electric currently is not very good [TS]

01:34:33   something small and light and fast and [TS]

01:34:35   fun so you know maybe something like uh [TS]

01:34:37   nem - or like a caiman or you know [TS]

01:34:40   something like that [TS]

01:34:41   like something that electric cars really [TS]

01:34:43   can't be very well yet that's [TS]

01:34:46   interesting [TS]

01:34:47   do you miss the the 1-series them ever [TS]

01:34:50   occasionally like but but not not [TS]

01:34:53   significantly like I I would love to saw [TS]

01:34:56   at some point drive the new m2 or even [TS]

01:34:58   the 235 like that like the you know the [TS]

01:35:00   m235i would love to drive either of [TS]

01:35:03   those just because I they do by all [TS]

01:35:05   reviews and accounts they do sound like [TS]

01:35:07   they're pretty fun little cars I think [TS]

01:35:10   that would be fun to drive those and and [TS]

01:35:12   to you know to consider those if I [TS]

01:35:14   couldn't have my big comfort boat but [TS]

01:35:16   but ultimately like I I've gotten [TS]

01:35:19   slightly older and a lot more boring and [TS]

01:35:21   I kind of just like my fast comfort boat [TS]

01:35:23   now so it's it's hard for me to really [TS]

01:35:25   give this question an honest answer or [TS]

01:35:28   honest consideration because I just my [TS]

01:35:30   head's not in that space anymore yeah [TS]

01:35:33   that's fair I I drove an m235i which is [TS]

01:35:36   now an m240 I and it was it was really [TS]

01:35:40   great like I wouldn't say that there was [TS]

01:35:42   anything tremendously remarkable about [TS]

01:35:46   it it was just a fun small you know a [TS]

01:35:50   nimble car which there's some to be said [TS]

01:35:53   for that right you know it was just it [TS]

01:35:55   was really nice in that regard and and I [TS]

01:35:57   had a lot of fun with it alright so [TS]

01:36:00   moving on to well John you have any [TS]

01:36:02   comments on Marcos choices not to say [TS]

01:36:05   that this was really designed to create [TS]

01:36:06   an argument but but far be it for me to [TS]

01:36:08   not give you a chance to respond any [TS]

01:36:09   thoughts I was gonna start by telling [TS]

01:36:12   Marco dieter but anyway okay my answer [TS]

01:36:14   so the best direct replacement that's [TS]

01:36:17   non electric direct replacement for his [TS]

01:36:18   Tesla is the Panamera has a hatchback [TS]

01:36:21   the new version of Samus ugly is the old [TS]

01:36:24   one it's really fast and fun to drive it [TS]

01:36:26   seats four which should be adequate for [TS]

01:36:28   his needs and yeah I think you would I [TS]

01:36:31   think he would end up there because I [TS]

01:36:32   think it is more exciting than the the [TS]

01:36:35   five series and you know shape wise like [TS]

01:36:38   it practically looks like a Model S at [TS]

01:36:40   this point so I think we have a lot of [TS]

01:36:42   fun with it there's still not good [TS]

01:36:43   looking you gotta see it in person it's [TS]

01:36:45   not it III think they actually are [TS]

01:36:47   good-looking III didn't the old one [TS]

01:36:49   obviously had the weird hunchback the [TS]

01:36:51   look it wasn't nice this is much more [TS]

01:36:53   nicely proportionate when you see it in [TS]

01:36:55   person like the Model S which I think [TS]

01:36:57   looks kind of dowdy in pictures when you [TS]

01:36:58   see it in person you realize it is lower [TS]

01:36:59   and wider than you thought and it has a [TS]

01:37:01   nice presence in person I know because I [TS]

01:37:02   see them all over where I live yeah I [TS]

01:37:05   mean looking at the Islamic than shown [TS]

01:37:06   their website everything you know [TS]

01:37:08   because I really have enjoyed a [TS]

01:37:10   hatchback [TS]

01:37:11   I would I would give this I would give [TS]

01:37:13   this a look but I wouldn't feel good [TS]

01:37:15   about it and and everyone said like the [TS]

01:37:16   this behaves the is the least sedan like [TS]

01:37:20   of all of the big sedans like everyone [TS]

01:37:22   says no I'm but I mean like in terms of [TS]

01:37:26   not feeling heavy and like a boat right [TS]

01:37:29   that it feels nimble and you know it [TS]

01:37:31   feels like a slightly bigger Cayman it [TS]

01:37:33   doesn't feel like a souped up you know [TS]

01:37:36   Cadillac or whatever yeah they're [TS]

01:37:38   they're making an electric too by the [TS]

01:37:40   way so Marco actually might be in the [TS]

01:37:41   market eventually when when their [TS]

01:37:43   elections come out cuz they will [TS]

01:37:44   actually have a direct electric [TS]

01:37:45   competitor to Tesla and that's another [TS]

01:37:47   reason Marco will be in the Porsche [TS]

01:37:49   dealership well and like like their [TS]

01:37:50   their concept like the is the mission EE [TS]

01:37:52   they're comfortable a year or two ago [TS]

01:37:54   that did look really cool but it's just [TS]

01:37:56   a concept and you know it's who knows [TS]

01:37:58   what will actually ship and when it does [TS]

01:38:00   ship there's there's a big question of [TS]

01:38:02   charging stations like Tesla has a lot [TS]

01:38:04   of superchargers and they keep adding [TS]

01:38:06   more at a pretty remarkable rate you [TS]

01:38:09   know I know there's like the the you [TS]

01:38:11   know standard based networks that are [TS]

01:38:13   also out there but but Tesla has a [TS]

01:38:16   pretty big head start and they're in a [TS]

01:38:18   lot of places and there are places that [TS]

01:38:20   I go like they now cover upstate pretty [TS]

01:38:23   well like what that used to they used to [TS]

01:38:24   have very little coverage now they have [TS]

01:38:25   great coverage like they're they're [TS]

01:38:27   getting all over the place and so [TS]

01:38:29   anybody who comes in with with a you [TS]

01:38:32   know major long-distance electric car [TS]

01:38:35   competitor is going to have a pretty [TS]

01:38:37   serious fight ahead of them to get past [TS]

01:38:38   the supercharger network well you should [TS]

01:38:40   worried about though is when the hell [TS]

01:38:42   they can replace the Model S because [TS]

01:38:44   this is always comes out in comparison [TS]

01:38:47   test where like one model that is one [TS]

01:38:49   the comparison test for the five years [TS]

01:38:51   running is at the end of its its [TS]

01:38:52   generations lifetime and it's about to [TS]

01:38:54   be redesigned and it comes up against [TS]

01:38:55   the newly redesigned competitor and then [TS]

01:38:57   loses for the first time and so yeah the [TS]

01:39:00   Model S is great [TS]

01:39:01   but you can't just keep the same car [TS]

01:39:03   with minor interior and exterior tweaks [TS]

01:39:05   for 15 years you have to you have to [TS]

01:39:09   come up with the next version and the [TS]

01:39:10   next version has to be better so [TS]

01:39:12   presumably everybody who's targeting [TS]

01:39:13   Tesla they've got the Model S in their [TS]

01:39:15   sights they know that what their [TS]

01:39:16   benchmark they have to beat and they're [TS]

01:39:18   gonna end up beating it you know setting [TS]

01:39:20   aside the the charger network things [TS]

01:39:21   Tesla but you would fully expect [TS]

01:39:24   okay well Tesla's gonna be the two with [TS]

01:39:25   the next Model S and mostly how that [TS]

01:39:27   goes I am very very curious to see what [TS]

01:39:31   the heck the next Model S is because [TS]

01:39:33   they've done a lot of things with the [TS]

01:39:35   Model 3 [TS]

01:39:35   that sound really good to me and a few [TS]

01:39:38   things that sound really bad to me what [TS]

01:39:41   are they gonna carry over like the like [TS]

01:39:43   the single screen thing nope not for me [TS]

01:39:46   that does not sound good the elimination [TS]

01:39:48   of the of the auto steer cruise control [TS]

01:39:51   stock nope don't like that but things [TS]

01:39:54   like you know having the one giant vent [TS]

01:39:56   across the top and having the way faster [TS]

01:39:58   more responsive touchscreen that sounds [TS]

01:40:00   great [TS]

01:40:00   so yeah there's things I like from model [TS]

01:40:03   3 we'll see what they actually bring [TS]

01:40:04   over right I really hope they don't ruin [TS]

01:40:06   it the seat it seems like every Tesla [TS]

01:40:09   Model they do like almost everything [TS]

01:40:12   right and one thing that's just like a [TS]

01:40:15   dumb risk they took that didn't pay off [TS]

01:40:18   that you know ends up being annoying or [TS]

01:40:20   failure prone so like with the Model S [TS]

01:40:21   it was the stupid pop-out door handles [TS]

01:40:23   that fail constantly with the exit was [TS]

01:40:25   the the weird gull wing doors that you [TS]

01:40:27   know caused them to have lots of delays [TS]

01:40:29   and issues Falcon wings please whatever [TS]

01:40:31   yeah and then with the model three I [TS]

01:40:32   think they're weird risk they took was [TS]

01:40:34   having just that one screen and having [TS]

01:40:35   way too many functions rely on that one [TS]

01:40:39   screens and like you know some menu [TS]

01:40:40   there so you know who knows what they're [TS]

01:40:42   gonna ruin with the next Model S I just [TS]

01:40:44   hope it's something I can tolerate [TS]

01:40:45   so John's challenged similar if you had [TS]

01:40:50   to buy something that wasn't an accord [TS]

01:40:52   what would you buy mazda6 because it is [TS]

01:40:55   about the same size it gets good reviews [TS]

01:40:57   comes with a stick-shift okay and I had [TS]

01:41:00   its I didn't know specifically what you [TS]

01:41:02   were going to say but I had a feeling it [TS]

01:41:03   would be something along those lines so [TS]

01:41:05   now let's assume for the sake of [TS]

01:41:07   conversation that a two pedal car is [TS]

01:41:10   okay just for the sake of conversation [TS]

01:41:12   I'm not saying this is what you think [TS]

01:41:13   would that change your too [TS]

01:41:15   would you choose something different no [TS]

01:41:17   I've if it's okay no I would never pick [TS]

01:41:19   okay what porch was not allowed I'm not [TS]

01:41:23   allowed to have a stick sure let's go [TS]

01:41:24   with that let's say you're not allowed [TS]

01:41:25   to have a stick shift I think I might [TS]

01:41:31   find myself in the one Accord that I [TS]

01:41:33   recently learned comes with an automatic [TS]

01:41:35   they not the CVT once but the mom with [TS]

01:41:37   the automatic interesting okay wait I [TS]

01:41:39   see you later picking a course let's say [TS]

01:41:43   no actually I did not specify I didn't [TS]

01:41:45   specify but yeah good point let's go [TS]

01:41:47   with no because let's make this more [TS]

01:41:49   interesting get you out of your comfort [TS]

01:41:50   zone no no because like now we start [TS]

01:41:53   getting to spending more money than I [TS]

01:41:55   want to spend on a car well that's the [TS]

01:41:57   next question we're not there yet [TS]

01:41:59   what's the cheapest non disgusting [TS]

01:42:03   automatic transmission car that it can [TS]

01:42:05   fit my family that I would buy I don't [TS]

01:42:10   know does this the Mazda 6 come with an [TS]

01:42:12   auto sure get that yeah I mean that's [TS]

01:42:15   what Erin had she had a no I know I'm [TS]

01:42:19   just saying like she had a 2007 mazda 6 [TS]

01:42:21   Grand Touring it had darn near every [TS]

01:42:23   option on it it was an automatic and it [TS]

01:42:25   was a phenomenal car it was a really [TS]

01:42:26   really really great yeah I think I think [TS]

01:42:28   I'll get the Mazda 6 with automatic all [TS]

01:42:31   right so now some you know African [TS]

01:42:33   Prince has died and bequeath to you all [TS]

01:42:36   of his money but it's actually legit [TS]

01:42:38   this time you have you know ten million [TS]

01:42:41   dollars of with which you can spend on [TS]

01:42:43   this car what would you buy ten million [TS]

01:42:46   dollars I mean you have to use all ten [TS]

01:42:49   that's been part of that on the house to [TS]

01:42:51   house the car don't worry about your [TS]

01:42:55   acorn so much I'm worried about it [TS]

01:42:58   ruined by my kids scrape and their [TS]

01:43:00   bicycle handles across that as I shown [TS]

01:43:01   into my little garage don't worry about [TS]

01:43:03   the acorns just just worry about the car [TS]

01:43:05   let's just presume that everything else [TS]

01:43:07   is - and you said I can't no Ferraris [TS]

01:43:10   you're cheating you're looking at the [TS]

01:43:12   show notes so show notes it reads as [TS]

01:43:15   follows John has to buy one non Accord [TS]

01:43:17   what would he buy next bullet what if [TS]

01:43:19   two pedals were okay [TS]

01:43:20   next bullet okay this is in the show [TS]

01:43:22   notes okay fine now money is no object [TS]

01:43:23   and it has to be two pedals no Ferraris [TS]

01:43:26   but let's start with the Ferraris but [TS]

01:43:28   even though we all know [TS]

01:43:29   your answer to whatever the the v12 is [TS]

01:43:31   yeah I was looking at you know I was [TS]

01:43:34   looking at the 48 again I don't know the [TS]

01:43:35   48 just hasn't grown on me as much as I [TS]

01:43:37   thought it would so I'm wondering if I [TS]

01:43:39   would actually get a 458 or even a 430 [TS]

01:43:42   because I do like both of those cars [TS]

01:43:44   better but then I look at the interiors [TS]

01:43:46   they're all kind of weird so I don't [TS]

01:43:47   know but like practically speaking like [TS]

01:43:49   I wouldn't if you only let me have one [TS]

01:43:51   car I wouldn't get any of those because [TS]

01:43:52   I can't I can't like drive that to work [TS]

01:43:54   every day and carry your kids kids [TS]

01:43:56   around then didn't go on vacations is [TS]

01:43:58   just not practical it has to be like [TS]

01:43:59   your second or third or fourth car right [TS]

01:44:01   so I'm I went back into four-door sedans [TS]

01:44:04   then I'm gonna especially if I'm allowed [TS]

01:44:09   to get a new house no just don't again [TS]

01:44:12   don't worry about the house they give [TS]

01:44:13   the acorns have gone away your kids will [TS]

01:44:15   not touch the car but it was only one [TS]

01:44:18   car I think I would end up with like an [TS]

01:44:21   AMG E Series Mercedes because the [TS]

01:44:24   s-class as much as I love it I think [TS]

01:44:26   it's just I think it's just too big to [TS]

01:44:29   be I think I would like these better [TS]

01:44:32   because these aren't that small these [TS]

01:44:33   days I feel like they're more or less [TS]

01:44:35   accord size they're really fast but also [TS]

01:44:38   are comfortable and have lots of tech [TS]

01:44:40   gadgets I'm not even sure if I'd we got [TS]

01:44:41   the AMG model frankly I'm actually end [TS]

01:44:44   up with the non AMG model if I felt like [TS]

01:44:46   that was fast enough for the AMG one was [TS]

01:44:48   squishy but I really like these and I [TS]

01:44:51   feel like they are more they're more to [TS]

01:44:54   my taste I think then then probably the [TS]

01:44:56   m5 that's that I haven't really seen [TS]

01:44:58   details about the new m5 so maybe they [TS]

01:45:00   were just a little and I did like Markos [TS]

01:45:01   m5 but I just feel like all the all the [TS]

01:45:04   the bad vibes that you've both given me [TS]

01:45:05   about BMWs and repair wheels and [TS]

01:45:07   everything go to the devil I don't know [TS]

01:45:10   and Mercedes I suppose but you would not [TS]

01:45:13   get a wagon you would get a sedan yeah I [TS]

01:45:15   get a sit down do you like wagons in [TS]

01:45:17   principle I do I just don't think I need [TS]

01:45:20   one like we just have the two kids and [TS]

01:45:21   it's not like we're going camping [TS]

01:45:22   you know I do like wagons I would I [TS]

01:45:24   would get a wagon over a minivan any day [TS]

01:45:25   but I just don't feel like I need that [TS]

01:45:26   extra space up why would I get a wagon [TS]

01:45:28   when I could just get us a man since I'm [TS]

01:45:30   now a car journalist I mean I've been [TS]

01:45:35   considering wagons more and more with [TS]

01:45:36   each passing day and even though as an [TS]

01:45:38   American I'm supposed to hate wagons [TS]

01:45:40   there's something to be said for a fast [TS]

01:45:42   that has no business being as fast as it [TS]

01:45:45   is so I'm configuring my Porsche [TS]

01:45:47   Panamera excuse me it's Porsche sir [TS]

01:45:50   don't pick the the $20,000 option that [TS]

01:45:53   gives you like a card key fob the [TS]

01:45:56   options that they give you are like [TS]

01:45:59   there's like first of all there's like [TS]

01:46:00   90 different options that's not an [TS]

01:46:02   exaggeration and the the it is ludicrous [TS]

01:46:06   like I thought BMW was crazy with all [TS]

01:46:08   the little diamonds is the king of oh my [TS]

01:46:11   god so among other things I have the [TS]

01:46:12   option to add a six disc DVD changer or [TS]

01:46:17   nice five hundred and sixty dollars [TS]

01:46:19   wow that's cheap I can add a USB port in [TS]

01:46:21   the rear for four hundred and twenty [TS]

01:46:24   dollars that's just the port I can add a [TS]

01:46:26   fire extinguisher I don't know where or [TS]

01:46:29   how for one hundred and eighty dollars [TS]

01:46:33   like I've never seen this many options [TS]

01:46:38   it's it's ridiculous I was watching a [TS]

01:46:42   demurrer video recently I think it was [TS]

01:46:44   talking about the like the 918 or [TS]

01:46:46   something but what I think was it a [TS]

01:46:49   paint car option that was 65 grand there [TS]

01:46:51   was some there so it was like a cosmetic [TS]

01:46:54   option that it cost more than like you [TS]

01:46:56   know most cars so I can get the the air [TS]

01:47:00   vent slats painted for two thousand [TS]

01:47:04   three hundred thirty dollars so I do not [TS]

01:47:07   like the look of this interior at all [TS]

01:47:09   I bet the interior is is very very [TS]

01:47:12   highly configurable so it is very highly [TS]

01:47:14   configurable as long as you're willing [TS]

01:47:15   to spend two thousand dollars to paint [TS]

01:47:17   your air slats yeah Porsche it seen it [TS]

01:47:19   seems like it if you want anything [TS]

01:47:22   that's not stock it costs a huge such a [TS]

01:47:25   huge amount of money that you're like [TS]

01:47:26   did they just buy the stock car and then [TS]

01:47:28   take out the parts and burn them and [TS]

01:47:30   then put in new parts like why does it [TS]

01:47:31   cost so much money god there's so many [TS]

01:47:34   see like it's [TS]

01:47:36   holy smokes like and yeah the good thing [TS]

01:47:40   is like if yeah I think John's right [TS]

01:47:42   like it you know if you want to [TS]

01:47:42   customize I mean they have they have [TS]

01:47:44   like 15 different wheels you can pick [TS]

01:47:47   like there's there's so many options to [TS]

01:47:50   this you and a half of them I don't even [TS]

01:47:53   understand what they would do or why I [TS]

01:47:55   would want them [TS]

01:47:56   seat belts in chalk 616 dollars [TS]

01:47:59   decorative valve stems decorative valve [TS]

01:48:02   stems in black with colored Porsche [TS]

01:48:04   crest $70 that's that might be the [TS]

01:48:07   cheapest thing on this entire list oh my [TS]

01:48:12   god it's amazing and this is starting at [TS]

01:48:14   150,000 for the Porsche Panamera Turbo [TS]

01:48:16   executive oh I didn't go to the [TS]

01:48:18   executive I stopped at the 4s which my [TS]

01:48:21   configuration is 124,000 and I haven't [TS]

01:48:26   even gotten like you know like good [TS]

01:48:28   seats and everything I think there's [TS]

01:48:30   like a game with the poor top is it you [TS]

01:48:32   just you want to get the one with the [TS]

01:48:33   good engine right and then after that [TS]

01:48:36   you want to pick like two things that [TS]

01:48:39   are important to you everything else [TS]

01:48:41   except stock I think the real answer [TS]

01:48:45   here is you want to buy these used [TS]

01:48:47   because like you know used cars you tend [TS]

01:48:49   to you tend to get a lot of the options [TS]

01:48:51   basically for free it's like you know [TS]

01:48:54   it's like you don't you know if you spec [TS]

01:48:55   up a cart like though the use pricing is [TS]

01:48:57   based on not all the options is based on [TS]

01:48:59   like the engine trim level year and my [TS]

01:49:01   legs like that's a that's about it so [TS]

01:49:04   like the way to get any of these cars if [TS]

01:49:06   you want a lot of options is to guys [TS]

01:49:08   wait for a used one to come up that has [TS]

01:49:10   a lot of options that someone else took [TS]

01:49:11   a bath on and you get those pretty [TS]

01:49:14   nicely I think I mentioned there's about [TS]

01:49:16   like rolls-royce uh Mercedes last time [TS]

01:49:17   we talked about it but I'm just so [TS]

01:49:18   surprised that these companies stick to [TS]

01:49:20   this I mean I suppose there is some [TS]

01:49:21   attraction to the the high-end clientele [TS]

01:49:24   if being able to customize everything [TS]

01:49:25   especially like on Bentley enrolls and [TS]

01:49:27   stuff but as Marco is noted in is a [TS]

01:49:30   salad power user you know diatribe the [TS]

01:49:36   paralysis of choice I would be terrified [TS]

01:49:38   that I would be accidentally configuring [TS]

01:49:40   the world's ugliest rolls-royce right [TS]

01:49:42   because you have you can choose [TS]

01:49:43   everything every kind of every material [TS]

01:49:45   every surface every color everything [TS]

01:49:47   it's like don't don't trust me to design [TS]

01:49:50   it especially if they have not-so-great [TS]

01:49:52   visualization it's like I paid through [TS]

01:49:54   and 50 grand for this mentally and it [TS]

01:49:56   looks like a clown car cuz I didn't [TS]

01:49:57   think about how this color leather would [TS]

01:50:00   look with this color stitching would [TS]

01:50:01   look with this material because I'm not [TS]

01:50:02   a car interior designer just give me [TS]

01:50:04   some presets like Marco wants for salads [TS]

01:50:06   and then maybe I'll say let me give me [TS]

01:50:09   preset and then a little tweak one thing [TS]

01:50:11   or something cuz I think I scare you I [TS]

01:50:13   mean I think it mostly nerves in my how [TS]

01:50:15   scary it would be to buy a car sight [TS]

01:50:17   unseen like you've never seen a car with [TS]

01:50:19   this materials you've never sat down you [TS]

01:50:20   don't know what it's gonna look like you [TS]

01:50:21   don't know how it's gonna feel and just [TS]

01:50:23   picking from a menu terrifying so I [TS]

01:50:25   wonder which people have like other [TS]

01:50:27   people configure their cars for them [TS]

01:50:28   right or they just say oh I don't know [TS]

01:50:31   you just make it nice for me or like the [TS]

01:50:33   hire car interior designers just like [TS]

01:50:35   you design you know hire them for your [TS]

01:50:37   house like poor people you know just go [TS]

01:50:40   to the Home Center and they pick out [TS]

01:50:41   materials for their floor and their [TS]

01:50:42   countertops um whatever and they cross [TS]

01:50:44   their fingers and hope it looks okay the [TS]

01:50:45   rich people hire interior designer and [TS]

01:50:47   you know also cross their fingers I [TS]

01:50:50   suppose but pay gobs and gobs some money [TS]

01:50:51   for them to come up with materials and [TS]

01:50:54   everything that look good together so I [TS]

01:50:55   wonder if they do that for cars too [TS]

01:50:56   because it's it's a huge expense and [TS]

01:50:58   there's just too many choices [TS]

01:51:00   yeah I'm looking now like I would rather [TS]

01:51:02   have just a regular five series I think [TS]

01:51:03   than the Panamera I like you get so much [TS]

01:51:07   more for the money and it's a way nice [TS]

01:51:09   looking car even though it does have a [TS]

01:51:10   little bit of the skin flap issue of [TS]

01:51:12   modern ones but yeah that's I think I'd [TS]

01:51:15   rather have that like a job for Casey [TS]

01:51:17   Casey do you know any interest in being [TS]

01:51:19   a car option configure to rich people [TS]

01:51:22   I would love to are you kidding I would [TS]

01:51:24   Lord you feel the pressure though and [TS]

01:51:26   not accidentally making an ugly car for [TS]

01:51:27   them no I really wouldn't because I mean [TS]

01:51:32   they're rich who cares they're just [TS]

01:51:34   looking for someone to blame I mean yeah [TS]

01:51:36   yeah charge your fee it's like interior [TS]

01:51:38   designers you're the charge of your feet [TS]

01:51:39   which should be like at least one third [TS]

01:51:41   of the price of actually doing job [TS]

01:51:43   purely for like you know what service [TS]

01:51:46   you provide you tell the much options to [TS]

01:51:47   pick I have long thought about how fun [TS]

01:51:50   it would be to be like a car head hunter [TS]

01:51:53   if you will so you know take me for [TS]

01:51:56   example when I was buying my 3-series [TS]

01:51:57   you know I wanted a 335 it had to have a [TS]

01:52:00   stick it had to have the M Sport package [TS]

01:52:02   you know and there I think they were one [TS]

01:52:04   or two other options I insisted upon not [TS]

01:52:06   white before either view Jim [TS]

01:52:09   anyway the point is you know I would [TS]

01:52:11   love to be a owner and we I would love [TS]

01:52:14   to be a car head hunter that's you know [TS]

01:52:15   that my job is just like scour [TS]

01:52:17   Autotrader to try to find that like [TS]

01:52:19   perfect you [TS]

01:52:20   horn for somebody I think that would be [TS]

01:52:21   super fun but anyone who would have the [TS]

01:52:24   money for that would would be buying new [TS]

01:52:25   anyway so they would just order one [TS]

01:52:27   house thank you just you just hang out [TS]

01:52:28   like honor if you work at the dealer and [TS]

01:52:30   say we have this person here their [TS]

01:52:32   services are provided at a very small [TS]

01:52:34   fee of 50 grand and they will help you [TS]

01:52:36   select options for your 250,000 dollar [TS]

01:52:39   car [TS]

01:52:41   I mean if you're looking to hire me you [TS]

01:52:44   can find my contact information at KC [TS]

01:52:46   let's calm yeah 50 grand per car like [TS]

01:52:49   you you know you can make some some good [TS]

01:52:51   money doing that for me and honestly if [TS]

01:52:53   I had the money to buy a Bentley I would [TS]

01:52:55   gladly pay 50 grand to someone who would [TS]

01:52:57   prevent me from miss configuring my car [TS]

01:52:59   and getting an ugly $350,000 Bentley [TS]

01:53:01   instead I'd have a good-looking $400,000 [TS]

01:53:03   Bentley [TS]