The Accidental Tech Podcast

268: A Tarnished Brass Age


01:00:00   they're not selling the a leaven chip to

01:00:02   other cell phone makers this is not a

01:00:03   thing they do and we just assume if they

01:00:05   were going to make chips for the Mac's

01:00:06   they also wouldn't say oh this is our

01:00:08   new business now by the way we're

01:00:09   selling chips to everybody in the

01:00:10   industry and what that would mean is

01:00:13   that max would have CPUs that are not

01:00:18   the same as the CPUs that are running in

01:00:21   other things in the industry and what so

01:00:24   what is that who cares well it was it

01:00:25   matter or don't we just care if we have

01:00:26   a nice CPU and iMac well right now we

01:00:28   are in a a I know what you'd call it a

01:00:32   Golden Age used to be a golden age now

01:00:35   it's not quite golden now it's more of

01:00:36   like a tarnished brass age anyway we're

01:00:39   where max use the same CPUs that are

01:00:43   also used in the servers further we run

01:00:46   server-side software in which means that

01:00:48   if you're writing server-side software

01:00:49   and using the Mac as your dev

01:00:50   environment you can run VMs and you can

01:00:53   run docker and you can do all sorts of

01:00:55   things and run the same software that's

01:00:58   running on your server locally on your

01:00:59   Mac because they're both x86 64 CPUs

01:01:03   right and to a lesser extent you can

01:01:06   also run Windows stuff because render

01:01:08   ones the next 86 thinker on Windows in

01:01:09   virtualization and high-speed so it's

01:01:11   over line and those are real advantages

01:01:15   for certain constituencies of pro Mac

01:01:17   users who use the the Mac as like a

01:01:20   development platform for writing

01:01:21   server-side software and maybe just

01:01:23   because I'm in that world that I see it

01:01:24   a lot but I have been shocked over the

01:01:27   course of my career how prevalent Mac's

01:01:29   have become for people who essentially

01:01:32   you know not know who pejoratively used

01:01:34   them as glorified terminals right I

01:01:36   don't think that's really true because

01:01:37   lots of people do local development like

01:01:39   they will you know they will run docker

01:01:40   on their Mac they will run you know a

01:01:42   VirtualBox on their Mac or whatever and

01:01:43   they will use software and binaries that

01:01:48   run on the server they will run them on

01:01:49   their Mac alright and so they're not

01:01:52   just using this glorified terminal but

01:01:53   actually doing local development that is

01:01:55   one class of software developer these

01:01:56   server-side software developers so if

01:01:58   Apple makes a CPU transition the Mac as

01:02:02   a server-side software dev platform

01:02:04   becomes far less attractive because

01:02:07   apples not going to sell those CPUs to

01:02:10   run on the server and now it could be if

01:02:12   they just use the same instruction set

01:02:13   and somehow armed on the server becomes

01:02:15   a thing lots of companies have been

01:02:17   trying to make armor and the server

01:02:18   birthing for a long time hasn't quite

01:02:22   happened but if Apple's not gonna make

01:02:24   it happen and no one else makes it

01:02:26   happen and Intel continues to endure

01:02:29   even AMD continue to dominate the server

01:02:31   space with x86 64

01:02:33   it makes the Mac Mac less attractive to

01:02:35   in one particular area and same thing

01:02:38   for Windows I'm just picking this

01:02:39   example but if you rely on the ability

01:02:40   to run Windows virtualized Windows at

01:02:43   full speed as part of some important

01:02:46   business that you do let's use a Mac

01:02:47   when previously you couldn't because you

01:02:48   can also run a Windows on it I know when

01:02:50   those is ported to arm as well right but

01:02:53   it really just depends on do people

01:02:55   portal or Windows software arm do they

01:02:57   recompile it for arm do most pcs sold

01:02:59   become arm

01:03:01   ideally whatever transition Apple makes

01:03:05   the whole rest of the industry would

01:03:08   also make pcs servers everything whether

01:03:12   or not Apple helps them naked I think

01:03:14   Apple will not help them make it so the

01:03:16   only way we can get maintain the golden

01:03:18   age where everything runs on the same

01:03:20   platform is if the rest of the industry

01:03:22   also transitions more or less at the

01:03:24   same time without any of Apple's help

01:03:27   which seems unlikely to me so that would

01:03:29   make me slightly more sad and I think it

01:03:32   would make the app the Mac slightly less

01:03:34   desirable or even viable for certain Pro

01:03:38   applications everything else that the

01:03:41   Mac normally does no one cares you can

01:03:42   develop Mac software on it you could run

01:03:44   all your applications you can browse the

01:03:45   web so it's probably not that big of a

01:03:46   deal but it is the one angle that I have

01:03:48   found myself pondering you know if I'm

01:03:51   able to bring myself to believe that

01:03:53   they're really gonna do this actually be

01:03:55   like how would it change my experience

01:03:56   of Mac's you know what would it and I'd

01:03:59   even get into you know playing Windows

01:04:00   games with our guess who cares that's

01:04:01   really small but I look around my big

01:04:03   company full of hundreds of developers

01:04:05   and how many Mac's I see and everything

01:04:06   they're doing with them and think what

01:04:08   if that Mac was armed but all of our

01:04:11   servers were still x86 how would that

01:04:13   change how viable the Mac is for you and

01:04:16   I think it would be would be worse so

01:04:19   that's one more thing for me to not look

01:04:21   forward to on the flip side of that is

01:04:22   what Mark was talking about how awesome

01:04:23   would be

01:04:24   Thompson I frankly I think how awesome

01:04:26   it would be on the Mac Pro I would love

01:04:28   to see a massive multi-core apple design

01:04:31   ARM processor that outperforms a Xeon

01:04:32   with less power I would love that and I

01:04:34   think it's 100% possible maybe on

01:04:36   Apple's second or third try and help

01:04:38   maybe on their first try those people

01:04:39   are really smart but there are some

01:04:41   things I would miss one other thing to

01:04:44   think about is like you know we're

01:04:46   assuming that you know if Apple does

01:04:49   this transition that the processor is

01:04:52   being in their hands would be a good

01:04:54   thing and that they would outperform or

01:04:57   they would match or I perform what Intel

01:04:59   is doing and the assumption in that is

01:05:01   that they will always or at least for a

01:05:03   long time

01:05:04   outperform what the rest of the PC

01:05:06   industry is doing but that might not

01:05:08   hold like it might be what if they can

01:05:10   put this transition and then they find

01:05:13   themselves actually not doing as well as

01:05:16   the PC industry or not caring as much

01:05:18   about the processors of developing for

01:05:20   the Mac and therefore like you know

01:05:22   today we have the issue of you know it

01:05:24   doesn't see them I take care as much

01:05:25   about the Mac but as they do about iOS

01:05:27   so you know they have like these product

01:05:29   lines that just sit around forever when

01:05:32   at when Intel does make a new generation

01:05:34   of processor it's not that much work to

01:05:38   create to update these new product lines

01:05:40   to use that new component it's way less

01:05:43   engineering resources to take Intel's

01:05:46   newest chip and stick it in the Mac you

01:05:48   already have designed than it is to

01:05:51   design the next version of the you know

01:05:53   a10 you know quadruple x whatever

01:05:57   whatever it is that would be like you

01:05:59   know the high-performance version of

01:06:00   this this year's a series processor it's

01:06:03   very possible that could backfire on us

01:06:05   like it could be that Apple takes it

01:06:09   over then down the road decides the Mac

01:06:11   is not that you know important to them

01:06:13   which wouldn't be unheard of because

01:06:15   that's already how it's been and then

01:06:17   they just never update those chips for

01:06:21   those compute for the Mac and because as

01:06:24   John's like because they're not selling

01:06:25   these chips outside of Apple which I can

01:06:27   never see them doing there would be no

01:06:29   other pressure for them to keep those

01:06:32   chips updated so they actually might

01:06:34   make them like it would basically raise

01:06:37   the car

01:06:38   of updating the Mack line to keep pace

01:06:41   with the latest and greatest hardware

01:06:43   and I think the last thing Apple he

01:06:46   heats us for that cost to be raised

01:06:47   because right now they already seem to

01:06:50   have a lot of trouble justifying

01:06:51   investment in the Mac so if it's more

01:06:54   expensive to update the Mac to you know

01:06:57   update Mac hardware to the latest

01:06:59   generation of whatever that actually

01:07:02   could really backfire quite badly on us

01:07:04   and we that could result in even less

01:07:07   attention even fewer updates even less

01:07:10   competitive performance to what the rest

01:07:12   of industry is doing it's like the the

01:07:15   trashcan Mac Pro we were like oh why

01:07:17   isn't Apple updated to use the latest

01:07:19   Zeon's we'll imagine there were no

01:07:20   latest eons and I would say we're using

01:07:22   the highest performance yes a whatever

01:07:25   processes are available it's like yeah

01:07:27   but well you got me there I mean they

01:07:29   are you just haven't made another one so

01:07:32   technically it is still using the

01:07:33   fastest one Yeah right like you get the

01:07:35   good and the bad with like bringing this

01:07:37   stuff in-house to Apple you get probably

01:07:40   pretty good performance and power

01:07:42   efficiency gains but at the cost of now

01:07:45   you're at the wins of Apple and Apple is

01:07:48   you know fickle and in in many areas

01:07:51   unreliable and you know this you would

01:07:55   be at the whims of whatever they felt

01:07:56   worth doing even more than you are now

01:08:00   because the cost of keeping the things

01:08:02   updated would be higher to them that's

01:08:05   worth mentioning the other angle that a

01:08:06   lot of people are talking about mostly

01:08:08   because this Bloomberg article is so

01:08:09   careful not to say anything definitive

01:08:11   about anything they're like well you

01:08:13   know that Bloomberg girl doesn't

01:08:14   actually say arm anywhere they're just

01:08:16   Apple would make its own chips what if

01:08:17   they make their own x86 chips and they

01:08:20   can do that you know money solves a lot

01:08:23   of problems

01:08:24   patents licensing instruction set

01:08:26   whatever you know dealing with Intel

01:08:28   like assuming you threw enough money of

01:08:31   the people you need to throw money at to

01:08:32   be allowed to do that

01:08:33   Alpo could probably make a pretty good

01:08:35   x86 chip I have a hard time believing

01:08:38   Apple could make it substantially better

01:08:41   x86 check than Intel because apples

01:08:44   expertise thus far has been in making

01:08:46   arm CPUs and x86 even just plain old

01:08:50   Exodus

01:08:50   664 is a much more let's say warty

01:08:55   instruction set than arm it's got a lot

01:08:58   of history behind it it's weird in lots

01:09:01   of interesting ways and intel has a lot

01:09:03   of experience and you know instruction

01:09:06   decode hardware and all sorts of you

01:09:09   know chip within a chip ways to crack

01:09:11   apart those big variable with

01:09:13   instructions and feed it into a machine

01:09:15   that works more like a modern processor

01:09:17   on the inside I mean it's not as big a

01:09:20   difference as people think because

01:09:21   modern you know arm risk style

01:09:24   processors also have to do lots of weird

01:09:26   stuff internally as well but there's a

01:09:29   lot of institutional expertise both AMD

01:09:31   and Intel have that Apple does not have

01:09:33   when it comes to figuring out how to

01:09:34   make the x86 instruction set faster even

01:09:37   just the x86 64 one which is much nicer

01:09:40   than a 32-bit or let alone the 16-bit or

01:09:42   whatever variants so I it that seems

01:09:48   much less likely to me like it really

01:09:51   hammers on what Marko was getting at

01:09:52   which is like okay Apple now you're on

01:09:55   now you have something to keep up with

01:09:57   you're making your own x86 chips and so

01:09:59   we can still ask the question hey Apple

01:10:01   you have an update that whatever chip in

01:10:02   your whatever Mac for a long time

01:10:03   meanwhile Intel has released three new

01:10:05   chips that are faster what's the deal

01:10:07   you could just use those Intel chips why

01:10:08   did you go on your own or it's at least

01:10:10   if they do arm we can't tell them you

01:10:12   know unless someone else decides to make

01:10:13   like 17 core ARM chips they're

01:10:17   stubbornly refusing to use in their new

01:10:19   arm Mac Pro whatever so that I think

01:10:23   this this realization and everything

01:10:25   we're talking about is leading people to

01:10:27   talk more around this blimp rogues story

01:10:28   about I think for the first time I'm

01:10:29   hearing people speculates more seriously

01:10:31   about the idea of them having x86 at the

01:10:35   high end and arm at the low end like for

01:10:37   some sustained period of time rather

01:10:38   than having a transition where you just

01:10:40   say all the x86 Mac's are gone and all

01:10:43   the Mac's are a whatever ARM chips but

01:10:46   rather instead saying we're never going

01:10:47   to make the investment to compete with

01:10:50   Zeon's those are always gonna be Zeon's

01:10:52   in the Mac Pro and the iMac Pro and we

01:10:54   will keep up with Intel's line as much

01:10:56   as we always have and we're just not

01:10:59   going to do stuff there but for all for

01:11:02   all of them

01:11:02   max that can essentially take drop-in

01:11:05   chips from our iPad and phone line maybe

01:11:08   with some minor tweaks in terms of

01:11:09   adding more cash or maybe some more

01:11:11   cores and you know beef your GPU and

01:11:13   stuff like that those will get armed and

01:11:16   as Marco said those are the majority of

01:11:18   Mac's sold and like the the x86 max will

01:11:23   just be as technical curiosity that

01:11:24   nerds and developers use but then the

01:11:27   max that most people buy to do basic

01:11:29   computing stuff and word processing and

01:11:32   run office and web browsing and run

01:11:35   spreadsheets and watch Netflix and

01:11:37   whatever else people want to do those

01:11:40   will all be armed and that is an

01:11:42   unprecedented move because Apple has

01:11:44   never had a sustained dual CPU strategy

01:11:49   on the Mac it has always been a

01:11:50   transition old chip goes out and your

01:11:52   chip comes in new chip has lots of

01:11:55   advantages everyone loves the new chip

01:11:56   look how fast it is look how fast

01:11:58   graphing calculator runs on the PowerPC

01:12:00   look how fast everything runs on x86

01:12:02   versus these ancient power pcs that IBM

01:12:04   doesn't update anymore I am NOT

01:12:09   enthusiastic about that future even

01:12:12   though it makes sense from a technical

01:12:13   perspective in terms of like what you

01:12:14   want to spend money on and what you

01:12:15   don't because tomorrow is earlier point

01:12:18   dealing with an OS that runs on two

01:12:21   different platforms is a who is it I

01:12:26   think a TP tipster said it on Twitter is

01:12:28   a bug multiplier like potentially there

01:12:31   are new bugs that might only exist on

01:12:33   one platform or another throwing another

01:12:34   very it's not double the bugs right

01:12:36   because not every bug is architecture

01:12:38   specific but throwing another variable

01:12:40   into the mix especially as variable as

01:12:42   significant as the instruction set is

01:12:45   not the best way to drive down bugs and

01:12:49   cost and it could be that the software

01:12:51   maintaining the software and dealing

01:12:53   with the bugs and the changes there is

01:12:55   actually more expensive than dealing

01:12:56   with the hardware I don't know how that

01:12:58   shakes out in the grand scheme of things

01:12:59   exactly how many millions of dollars it

01:13:01   would cost to build a Zeon competitor

01:13:03   yourself versus how many millions of

01:13:04   dollars it would cost to maintain in

01:13:06   perpetuity or at least for a decade or

01:13:08   so two architectures that you make and

01:13:12   OS the same OS for with the same apps

01:13:14   compiled the stat minor II

01:13:16   to toolchains and all the other stuff so

01:13:17   that also strikes me it's not ideal

01:13:19   likely the simplest solutions are that

01:13:22   Apple nope doesn't do this transition or

01:13:23   that they transition everything to the

01:13:25   same architecture on all their devices

01:13:27   and any sort of hybrid thing though it

01:13:29   might make sense from a nickel-and-dime

01:13:32   perspective I bet if you had to pitch it

01:13:34   to the Board of Directors it would seem

01:13:36   to too much like a half-measure and they

01:13:38   would say why don't we just all go if

01:13:40   you had to pitch them and say we're

01:13:41   gonna go all armed and it's unified and

01:13:43   we have a unified framework and a

01:13:44   unified architecture and we own all the

01:13:46   stuff that is way easier to sell to a

01:13:47   board of directors than any of the more

01:13:50   technical solutions where you leave the

01:13:52   pro Max's x86 and you support both of

01:13:54   them and have two tool trains two

01:13:55   compilers in fact binaries and you don't

01:13:56   transition I you know I don't think

01:13:59   that's a that's a winner it's funny

01:14:02   because I'm of two minds about this

01:14:04   whole thing the KC from a couple of

01:14:07   years ago that lived in VMware fusion in

01:14:10   Windows but on a Mac would most likely

01:14:14   really hate this and this is exactly

01:14:16   what you were talking about earlier John

01:14:18   that you know one of the advantages of

01:14:19   being able to virtualize a OS or a

01:14:23   platform that's based on the same

01:14:25   platform you're running is that it

01:14:26   happens really really fast right this is

01:14:28   in contrast to in this hypothetical

01:14:30   future when you're trying to emulate x86

01:14:33   on top of arm and who knows maybe this

01:14:35   phantom apple processor would be so damn

01:14:37   fast that you could get away with it but

01:14:40   the likelihood of that is not good and

01:14:41   so you know past KC who is doing Windows

01:14:44   development on his Mac does not want

01:14:46   this at all and I think the last time we

01:14:48   really spoke about this seriously I was

01:14:50   still that KC that that does not want

01:14:53   this at all but the current me that only

01:14:56   works on Xcode and you know other things

01:14:59   that are native to the Mac and I haven't

01:15:01   run Windows in at least a year if not

01:15:04   more I don't feel like I have a problem

01:15:07   with this and the thought of my beloved

01:15:09   12-inch MacBook being faster with a

01:15:12   battery that lasts even longer which to

01:15:14   be fair I don't have any particular

01:15:15   complaints about the battery on this

01:15:17   thing but that being said you can always

01:15:19   have more more is always better so

01:15:21   having a 12-inch MacBook that is

01:15:23   considerably faster and yet has much

01:15:25   better battery life that sounds friggin

01:15:27   awesome like I totally want that

01:15:29   but what I'm not really doing is

01:15:32   considering what am I losing out on

01:15:33   because maybe there's some there's some

01:15:35   app that's vital to my workflow that I

01:15:38   won't be able to use anymore like you

01:15:41   know ffmpeg I believe is open-source so

01:15:43   presumably I could compile from source

01:15:44   if I needed to but just let's suppose

01:15:46   for the sake of discussion that ffmpeg

01:15:47   was never built forearm could not be

01:15:50   built forearm like that would stink I

01:15:52   use ffmpeg all the time for stupid stuff

01:15:54   that doesn't matter but it but you know

01:15:56   whether or not it matters it's important

01:15:58   to me it matters to me

01:16:00   weight to be clear you use it on the

01:16:01   12-inch every great once well not

01:16:04   usually but perhaps not my best choice

01:16:08   of analogies or a examples but but you

01:16:11   get my point right is that there maybe

01:16:13   it's something else

01:16:14   maybe it's the app rocket which lets you

01:16:16   you know easily insert emoji pretty much

01:16:19   anywhere in the system you know it's a

01:16:21   rocket is a modern app I would assume if

01:16:23   this X eighties excuse me if this arm

01:16:25   thing happened that rocket would get

01:16:27   updated but what if for the sake of

01:16:28   discussion rocket isn't updated I use

01:16:31   rocket constantly probably hundreds of

01:16:33   times a day and if it didn't get updated

01:16:35   that would really bum me out and so

01:16:37   there there are probably trade-offs that

01:16:40   I'm not considering but on the surface

01:16:42   and going on the assumption that it you

01:16:44   know a this phantom new Apple processor

01:16:48   that goes in the 12-inch MacBook is you

01:16:50   know five times faster and that uses

01:16:53   half as much power or whatever the case

01:16:54   may be I think that sounds freaking

01:16:56   great an Apple being in control of its

01:16:58   own pipeline sounds freaking great but

01:17:01   who knows I mean like you guys were

01:17:03   saying maybe it would be that Apple

01:17:06   makes crummy desktop level CPUs maybe it

01:17:09   would be that they're even slower than

01:17:10   Intel like we don't know how it would

01:17:12   turn out but on the server is it faster

01:17:15   and then they don't make a new one for

01:17:16   three years yeah like you never know how

01:17:21   it's gonna turn out but the optimist in

01:17:23   me thinks hell yeah like even if even if

01:17:27   it's painful at first because some of

01:17:29   the things I really love don't get you

01:17:32   know don't get moved to like fat binary

01:17:34   or whatever they end up doing in

01:17:35   principle this sounds great I'm all I'm

01:17:38   all in on it I think I'd really like to

01:17:39   see how this plays out but it sounds

01:17:41   like we're waiting until at least

01:17:43   20 20 if not after that so we'll say uh

01:17:46   or steak you want to put in dates no

01:17:49   think your windows VM thing like I think

01:17:51   that's a definitely a pretty rare case

01:17:54   because you really really wanted to use

01:17:55   a Mac but we're kind of doing Windows

01:17:56   developing and you can get away with it

01:17:58   because of VMware but I'm honestly I'm

01:17:59   surprised you were able to tolerate that

01:18:01   because that's no way to live an imac

01:18:02   constantly be using VMware to do Windows

01:18:04   stuff what's my alternative use a Dell

01:18:06   I'm not a monster yeah I know at some

01:18:09   point maybe that's better but like the

01:18:11   reason I brought into the point is that

01:18:13   yeah the reason I brought up server side

01:18:15   of stuff it's not just because it's what

01:18:17   I do for a living but because they're

01:18:20   there you know think of the big the big

01:18:23   tech companies you know you've got Apple

01:18:27   what is it Apple Google Amazon maybe

01:18:30   Microsoft Facebook right Facebook Amazon

01:18:35   increasingly Microsoft and Google write

01:18:39   a lot of or mostly server-side software

01:18:43   and when you picture the stereotypical

01:18:45   developer who works at any of those

01:18:47   companies and you picture them using a

01:18:49   Mac and being a cool tech nerd hipster

01:18:51   person they're writing server-side

01:18:53   software on the Mac and I have to think

01:18:56   that there is some aspect of having the

01:19:00   same CPU architecture as all of their

01:19:02   servers makes that a more desirable

01:19:06   development platform and there are a lot

01:19:09   of those people right I don't know how

01:19:11   many people are using a Mac to do

01:19:12   Windows development because they hate

01:19:13   Windows so much but there are a lot of

01:19:16   people writing server-side software and

01:19:18   my impression is that Mac's are very

01:19:20   prevalent at those companies and that's

01:19:23   why I think it's a use case that

01:19:24   actually may raise to the level of being

01:19:27   a factor in Apple's decision they will

01:19:30   at least consider it right because you

01:19:34   know like just think of the apple says

01:19:35   well we considered it but it's not

01:19:37   important enough use case it's too small

01:19:38   like we care about consumers right so

01:19:40   fine ten years from now if you went into

01:19:44   Facebook or Google or Microsoft or

01:19:47   Amazon and looked at all the developers

01:19:50   who are doing server-side development

01:19:51   what would it look like would it still

01:19:53   be filled with Mac's or would they be

01:19:55   mostly gone now

01:19:57   and people switch to what to to Windows

01:19:59   to Linux I don't know something that's

01:20:01   still on x86 or it could be that by

01:20:04   initiating this thing that Apple finally

01:20:06   kick-starts all other companies to start

01:20:08   pushing arm on the server more and

01:20:11   Amazon rolls that arm on the server for

01:20:13   all your ec2 instances and everything

01:20:14   and you know Microsoft arm on Windows

01:20:17   really starts to take off and Intel just

01:20:20   really has a bad decade it really just

01:20:24   fades from prominence and we're all

01:20:26   happy because we're all using arm

01:20:27   everywhere like that's a possibility I

01:20:30   suppose but you know I just the big tech

01:20:33   companies these days aren't the big tech

01:20:35   companies because they make native

01:20:38   applications and hardware most of the

01:20:41   big temp tech companies are big because

01:20:42   they run server-side software on cloud

01:20:46   infrastructure on x86 CPUs and their

01:20:49   developers all used Macs and run docker

01:20:52   and stuff yeah just to clarify what I

01:20:54   was saying earlier about ffmpeg that was

01:20:56   really a crummy example because ffmpeg

01:20:58   is open source so presumably like I

01:21:00   think I said it earlier but that could

01:21:02   be rebuilt from source but there's got

01:21:03   to be some closed source thing maybe

01:21:05   it's an Adobe product which doesn't

01:21:07   typically get updated very well maybe

01:21:08   it's some other thing maybe it's make

01:21:10   MKV maybe it's any number of other apps

01:21:12   that maybe you wouldn't be able to

01:21:15   recompile yourself from source and maybe

01:21:16   won't ever get upgraded or updated I

01:21:19   should say for this new platform and

01:21:21   then you would never be able to run that

01:21:22   app again and that would really stink or

01:21:23   you would have to be used some sort of

01:21:25   what was the virtual virtualization but

01:21:27   the thing that thank you were they you

01:21:29   would have some sort of Rosetta style

01:21:30   situation where yes you can still run it

01:21:33   but it's at you know a compromised

01:21:35   performance and blah blah blah so that's

01:21:38   the thing that worries me is that

01:21:39   sitting here now I'm all enthusiastic

01:21:41   and it sounds great

01:21:41   yeah give me my arm MacBook adorable

01:21:44   give it to me tomorrow but maybe I'd get

01:21:46   that arm MacBook adorable and realize oh

01:21:48   this this grass isn't quite as green as

01:21:50   I thought mark or any other thoughts on

01:21:52   this I think the the software argument

01:21:55   is is a good one like I think in any

01:21:57   transition like this one of the big

01:22:00   risks and problems is that you do lose

01:22:02   some apps you lose software like you

01:22:04   know when we went from PowerPC to Intel

01:22:05   not everything made it along the

01:22:07   transition

01:22:09   now the Mack is in a very different

01:22:12   place than where it was in 2006 when

01:22:15   that transition really happened you know

01:22:17   now a whole lot more Mack software's

01:22:20   really in maintenance mode or being

01:22:23   totally unmaintained and the software

01:22:25   the people still use you know like a lot

01:22:27   of developer attention moved to mobile

01:22:30   and a lot of Mac developers no longer

01:22:34   work on their apps or rather than the

01:22:36   apps the developers have a lot of Mac

01:22:38   apps are no longer working on them so

01:22:41   the magazine is in a kind of a bad spot

01:22:44   to go through an architecture transition

01:22:47   with no other modifications I think this

01:22:50   is possibly one of the reasons why I'm

01:22:51   so excited about this idea of project

01:22:54   marzipan of having iOS and Mac kind of

01:22:56   cross having cross compatibility between

01:22:58   the apps is that I think that could

01:23:00   really revive a lot of the Macs off our

01:23:01   market in theirs they were that would

01:23:04   dramatically I think increase the

01:23:08   developer interest in the Mac and and

01:23:11   developer support of the Mac because it

01:23:13   would lower that barrier allowed more

01:23:14   skills to be shared a lot more code to

01:23:16   be shared cetera so you know we talked

01:23:17   about that before so anything to to

01:23:20   revive software interest in the Mac of

01:23:22   among developers would be very well

01:23:26   timed to go before or during a partial

01:23:31   or full architectural transition because

01:23:34   that's when you need the developers to

01:23:37   be active on the Mac is right now if you

01:23:39   look around like like you know we're

01:23:40   about to lose a 32-bit probably this

01:23:42   fall

01:23:43   almost everyone probably has something

01:23:45   that will break you and we show this on

01:23:46   iOS too like when when I always drop

01:23:48   32-bit almost everyone lost something

01:23:50   and if you might have been using any

01:23:52   more but you know you know not

01:23:54   everything made it and that's how this

01:23:56   is gonna be - like if max transition

01:23:58   away from Intel not everything is going

01:24:01   to make it we're already losing some a

01:24:02   lot of things with 32-bit and so to do

01:24:06   that without significant destruction and

01:24:09   problems for your users you need a

01:24:11   healthy and well maintained software

01:24:14   ecosystem the Mac had that in 2006 and

01:24:18   that's why PowerPC to Intel went so well

01:24:21   it's hard to say the Mac

01:24:23   has that now so this kind of transition

01:24:26   I think would be a very bad idea unless

01:24:28   and until the Mac has more active

01:24:32   development from third parties on it and

01:24:35   right now I don't see that happening

01:24:38   without some kind of major intervention

01:24:39   and project marzipan could be that I and

01:24:43   I so that's one of the reasons again I

01:24:44   really hope that happens yeah I think

01:24:46   the good news is that if either one of

01:24:48   these things happen I don't think anyone

01:24:50   can imagine a sequence in which the

01:24:52   marzipan anything doesn't come either

01:24:53   before simultaneous with the CPU

01:24:55   transition just because it takes so long

01:24:57   to make CPUs and Apple has already

01:25:01   dabbled in what it takes to reuse stuff

01:25:04   that you wrote in iOS on the Mac and so

01:25:07   like it see that just seems so much

01:25:08   closer to being a reality to me than a

01:25:11   CPU transition so I think we will get

01:25:15   something to address the GUI API parity

01:25:19   between iOS and the Mac before any CPU

01:25:23   transition or at exactly the same time

01:25:25   as a CPU transition for for the reasons

01:25:27   you just set because it's Apple I think

01:25:29   recognized is the same thing that going

01:25:31   through a transition with the Mac market

01:25:33   the way it is it's just gonna make more

01:25:34   people say well that's the last straw

01:25:36   screw it I'm just gonna be an iOS

01:25:38   developer or do something else well see

01:25:40   it's exciting times ahead maybe possibly

01:25:43   you never know alright let's do some

01:25:46   ASCII tipi

01:25:47   oh please writes hey we'll lift be

01:25:49   generally available during WDC as in not

01:25:52   swamped with users or should I rent a

01:25:54   car if I want to see the things around

01:25:55   San Jose like the Computer History

01:25:56   Museum in my experience from only one

01:26:01   year of WDC in San Jose it was fine like

01:26:04   I can't remember ever waiting on a lift

01:26:06   for any particular reason or for any

01:26:08   particular amounts of time I didn't have

01:26:10   any trouble so I don't know about you

01:26:11   guys

01:26:11   compared to San Francisco San Jose is

01:26:13   like a neutron bomb went off like

01:26:14   there's nobody there there is there's a

01:26:17   weird side effect though like it's a

01:26:18   you're right first of all San Jose is

01:26:20   empty the relatively speaking

01:26:22   the problem with San Jose so it's kind

01:26:24   of like the inverse plot of The Truman

01:26:27   Show where it seems like you walking

01:26:31   around are the only human being there

01:26:34   and everyone who works

01:26:36   every establishment in San Jose seems

01:26:40   like they're an actor and for the very

01:26:42   first time ever you are asking them to

01:26:44   do their job that is a bit much but you

01:26:49   are closer to the truth that I really

01:26:51   want to admit well welcome to California

01:26:54   like its it really does seem like you

01:26:56   are like the first customer

01:26:57   everyone's ever had everyone it's their

01:26:59   first day on the job like it's we we

01:27:03   found this to be the case last year

01:27:04   almost everywhere we went almost every

01:27:07   day it like and in various different

01:27:10   contexts like it just seems like the

01:27:13   city it seems like this is the first

01:27:15   time people had ever come here and I

01:27:17   know it's I know that's not the case

01:27:18   like I know you know this is a big city

01:27:20   like obviously people are here all the

01:27:22   time but it's not that big that's the

01:27:24   thing it's not a big city so anyway

01:27:27   hiring like lifts and stuff you know for

01:27:30   your time there you might have to tell

01:27:32   the person how to drive you are the

01:27:34   first person to ever ask them to do

01:27:36   their job you know obviously at least

01:27:37   that's how it will seem so I don't know

01:27:39   what happened in San Jose to make

01:27:41   everybody behave this way but that's how

01:27:43   it felt the entire time

01:27:45   San Jose from the perspective of an

01:27:47   adopted New Yorker you ain't wrong all

01:27:53   right Bart hoofs rights hey should I use

01:27:56   the new CloudFlare DNS thing or should I

01:27:58   stay with Google's DNS thing

01:28:00   so to recap google has a free and not

01:28:05   open but a free DNS it's the DNS servers

01:28:08   actually the IP address and what

01:28:11   you can do is you can use Google's DNS

01:28:13   which is supposed to provide perks

01:28:15   although honestly I'm not even sure what

01:28:16   they are anymore the last time I used it

01:28:18   the only thing it really provided for me

01:28:20   was making things like YouTube slower

01:28:23   because I I was hitting servers that

01:28:25   were very far away from where I was

01:28:27   sitting I guess one of the advantages is

01:28:29   it prevents your ISP from knowing as

01:28:32   easily what web addresses you're going

01:28:34   to and things of that nature instead

01:28:36   you're giving it to Google because

01:28:37   that's a better choice but nevertheless

01:28:42   but yeah so that that was a thing it is

01:28:45   useful if your ISPs DNS perhaps the bed

01:28:48   which I know

01:28:49   is a comcastic thing to happen but I

01:28:53   don't know I've never really had that

01:28:54   trouble on on files or of your ISP does

01:28:57   stupid redirects where they they take

01:28:59   over the DNS when you do they mean you

01:29:01   typo something and throw you to some

01:29:02   stupid page to reuse ISP DNS because

01:29:08   they do that well also like you know I

01:29:10   really don't trust ISPs to be ethical at

01:29:13   all because they have shown in the u.s.

01:29:15   that they're not like they're just not

01:29:17   they they will do anything and

01:29:18   everything to be as sleazy as possible

01:29:20   because what are you gonna do about it

01:29:22   there's no competition and now there's

01:29:24   no FCC to regulate them so they can do

01:29:26   whatever they want and they know it and

01:29:28   they do like I would actually trust

01:29:30   Google more than I would trust Verizon

01:29:33   which is my ISP or

01:29:34   any major ISP in this country because at

01:29:38   least Google like there's a lot riding

01:29:40   on that if they mess up if they do

01:29:42   something creepy like so I think they're

01:29:44   less likely to try creepy stuff and if

01:29:47   they do creepy stuff they're less likely

01:29:48   to to get hacked and have my information

01:29:50   leaked all over the place so there's

01:29:53   there's a few reasons why I think I

01:29:54   would trust Google over any ISP that

01:29:57   being said I think I trust CloudFlare

01:30:00   more than any of them because a they're

01:30:04   not an advertising company and B they've

01:30:06   spelled out in their post announcing

01:30:08   this like why they're doing this for

01:30:10   free what's in it for them like what is

01:30:12   their business plan here and their

01:30:14   business plan is in part because they

01:30:16   seem to honestly care about making the

01:30:18   internet a better place and in part

01:30:19   because they offer Enterprise DNS

01:30:22   services that would be better and are

01:30:24   faster if more people who access the

01:30:27   enterprise's sites are using their DNS

01:30:30   on the client-side so there is a clear

01:30:33   business reason why this benefits

01:30:35   CloudFlare to do that does not depend on

01:30:39   creepy stuff that I don't want them to

01:30:41   be doing yeah systems good I'm not using

01:30:43   it personally but I I will say that I

01:30:46   would be far more likely to use this

01:30:48   than Google's thing I do use my eyes p's

01:30:51   dns because I don't often fat-finger

01:30:54   URLs so I don't see that god-awful

01:30:55   Verizon search page that I hate that it

01:30:58   hijacks when you enter a bogus URL they

01:31:00   used to have a way for you to turn that

01:31:01   off by

01:31:02   like you go to Verizon's preferences and

01:31:04   find it somewhere and say please don't

01:31:05   do that

01:31:05   but there still is it's it's poorly

01:31:08   documented but like if you change like

01:31:10   the last digit of your DNS servers in a

01:31:12   certain way like you get you get

01:31:13   alternate ones yeah yeah that used to be

01:31:15   that used to be the way but there's a

01:31:17   lot of like outdated documentation on

01:31:18   that and sometimes what used to works

01:31:20   stops working and it's it's annoying

01:31:22   sorry I dig up on your on your concern

01:31:26   KC about eight eight eight and eight

01:31:27   eight eight eight four four the other

01:31:29   one like that's my concern and my

01:31:32   experience with them as well as like a

01:31:33   lot of the the ISP DNS likes a sort of

01:31:37   local DNS use the fact that that that

01:31:40   DNS is local to get to give you

01:31:41   different names for common services so

01:31:43   you hit the closer incarnation of it and

01:31:47   if you use the Google one so the theory

01:31:49   went that it didn't know where you were

01:31:50   to as much you know like and it would

01:31:53   just send you to a server far away or

01:31:55   that has a worse route to you I'm pretty

01:31:58   sure Google with is a date thing

01:32:00   does a bunch of stuff to try to make

01:32:03   that less severe in other words is

01:32:04   you're not going to some central DNS

01:32:06   server in the middle of the country that

01:32:08   gives everyone the same number for all

01:32:10   the different services and that's why

01:32:11   you know like it tries to be local like

01:32:14   all Google thing it's massively

01:32:15   distributed it's not just one thing in

01:32:17   one place but my experience has been

01:32:20   that whatever that local thing is it's

01:32:22   not local enough and still occasionally

01:32:24   I will get poor performance on the flip

01:32:27   side sometimes you'll get better

01:32:28   performance because if you try using

01:32:29   your ISPs DNS I found is PDS to be

01:32:32   unreliable as in no-name resolves or

01:32:35   crappy as and it gives me like the same

01:32:39   IP for that name as everyone else was on

01:32:41   my the same ISP as me and it's crowded

01:32:44   and if I switch to a today they get

01:32:45   better traffic but either way I just I

01:32:50   think CloudFlare is probably doing the

01:32:51   same thing as Google in that regard I

01:32:53   didn't I didn't read their full blog

01:32:55   post but that that concern is real and

01:32:59   does sometimes ever on vacations and

01:33:01   that's why I hesitate to suggest to

01:33:04   non-technical friends and family oh you

01:33:06   shouldn't use the ISP DNS just always

01:33:09   use a today there or one on one

01:33:11   whatever because if they do find

01:33:13   themselves in a situation where they're

01:33:15   being sent to a server far away and they

01:33:16   get terrible forms they're gonna have no

01:33:17   idea how to debug that and I feel like

01:33:20   it's better for them to just use the ISP

01:33:22   DNS so then at least when it breaks they

01:33:23   know the number to call and complain to

01:33:25   people and the complaint will be

01:33:26   legitimate and they won't find

01:33:27   themselves in a situation where they the

01:33:30   ISP support person eventually discovers

01:33:32   that they have some weird dns and say oh

01:33:33   there's your problem just they're at the

01:33:36   mercy or their ISP in more ways than one

01:33:39   but even for me I think maybe half of

01:33:42   the devices in my house use the Google

01:33:43   DNS but the other half use the native

01:33:45   ones and I choose based on how important

01:33:48   it is for that device to get good video

01:33:50   streaming from like Netflix or whatever

01:33:52   not an ideal situation

01:33:54   ideal situation would be if the kind of

01:33:58   technical expertise general morality and

01:34:02   aligned business success incentives

01:34:05   demonstrated by CloudFlare actually

01:34:07   existed in is peace but we do not live

01:34:09   in that country no not even close which

01:34:12   is too bad

01:34:13   all right so Josh Rappaport asks hey

01:34:16   John with the release of Mac OS 10 point

01:34:18   three point four have you considered

01:34:19   getting an external GPU enclosure and a

01:34:21   fancy graphics card can you do more in

01:34:22   gaming on your Mac you can your Mac even

01:34:25   support this isn't it way too old for

01:34:27   this it doesn't even have thunderbolt

01:34:28   yeah I don't I can't I'm running out

01:34:31   Capitan I can't even run Sierra John's

01:34:35   Mac doesn't even have USB 3 nope to the

01:34:41   question about external GPUs

01:34:43   I think those are a good solution for

01:34:49   people who need to use GPU incentive

01:34:51   intensive things on a computer that

01:34:53   can't fit an internal GPU so laptops

01:34:55   right and my main concern in the laptop

01:35:00   realm is based on my experience using my

01:35:03   2017 15 inch macbook pro at work

01:35:06   constantly connecting and disconnecting

01:35:08   it to my monitor and a hub thing that

01:35:11   gives me USB a connections and you know

01:35:16   what else comes off of that

01:35:17   well maybe DisplayPort for my old

01:35:19   monitor or whatever anyway I plug it

01:35:21   into a thing that periodically makes it

01:35:23   forces

01:35:24   turn on the discrete GPU and connect up

01:35:28   to a an external monitor and the

01:35:31   reliability of that is terrible there I

01:35:35   have to do all sorts of weird dances and

01:35:38   do things to make sure the machine

01:35:41   doesn't feel too rushed or too hassled

01:35:43   by me plugging and unplugging things

01:35:44   very often I plug it in and it just

01:35:47   ignores me

01:35:47   no no unplug it and plug it in again oh

01:35:50   maybe in a little potentially sometimes

01:35:51   no matter how many times I plug it in

01:35:53   and unplug it I have to pull the power

01:35:56   cord out of my hub thing that it's

01:35:59   connected to and basically reboot the

01:36:01   hub thingy sometimes it freezes with a

01:36:04   black screen and so like all this is

01:36:05   making me think do I really want to be

01:36:08   plugging and unplugging a GPU and

01:36:10   thinking this operating system is gonna

01:36:11   handle that gracefully because it can't

01:36:13   even handle plugging into an external

01:36:14   monitor in a consistent manner so I am

01:36:17   NOT optimistic about how good an

01:36:21   experience it will be to use an external

01:36:24   GPU but especially to connect an

01:36:26   external GPU to a system that didn't

01:36:28   previously have it and disconnect it

01:36:30   without doing all sorts of dances and

01:36:32   jumping through hoops and bending over

01:36:33   backwards to make sure the machine isn't

01:36:34   too rushed or isn't too upset

01:36:36   I mean plugging in the second GPU so my

01:36:39   faith and the reliability of the Mac

01:36:42   operating system to handle this is

01:36:43   shaken despite the fact that I realize

01:36:45   this is a revolutionary feature for the

01:36:48   part of people who are on the go

01:36:49   previously had no way to to increase the

01:36:53   GPU power of their portable machine like

01:36:56   you do only so much you could fit in

01:36:57   that case and they were just the fans

01:36:58   would be spinning you get the hottest

01:37:00   one you could and it would still be

01:37:01   terrible and now all of a sudden you're

01:37:02   telling me I can get this little

01:37:03   external enclosure and have massively

01:37:06   more powerful GPU maybe they'll just

01:37:08   deal with the bugs and they'll just be

01:37:09   worth it for them to be able to do like

01:37:10   live video previews of 4k video or

01:37:12   whatever they're doing with their GPU

01:37:14   rendering stuff like that but for me

01:37:16   personally like I would not my choice of

01:37:21   a gaming rig would not be a Mac laptop

01:37:23   with an external GPU

01:37:25   there's a reason I'm waiting for the Mac

01:37:26   Pro so I don't know I'm not personal

01:37:27   interested in this thanks to our

01:37:29   sponsors this week

01:37:30   Kaspar Squarespace and Rover and we'll

01:37:33   see you next week

01:37:36   now the show is over

01:37:39   they didn't even mean to begin cuz it

01:37:42   was accidental oh it was accidental John

01:37:48   didn't do any research Marko and Casey

01:37:51   wouldn't let him

01:37:52   because it was accidentally was

01:37:56   accidental and you can find the show

01:37:59   notes at a TPM and if you can follow

01:38:07   them CAS II WA L is s so that's Casey

01:38:13   less and a are Co AR m and T Marco

01:38:18   Arment SI r AC Syracuse

01:38:36   [Music]

01:38:38   so Casey I think I have a solution to

01:38:41   your BMW problem if I'm trying to solve

01:38:45   my BMW problem with Morgan with more BMW

01:38:48   spend a shitload of money then yes you

01:38:51   have definitely found a solution for me

01:38:54   BMW is come up with a subscription

01:38:55   service you heard that right that is not

01:38:58   a joke

01:38:59   it is now offering a subscription

01:39:01   service only in Nashville or I'm sorry

01:39:03   it will be offering a subscription

01:39:05   service only in Nashville for $2,000 a

01:39:09   month and thousand dollars a month you

01:39:14   can choose between x5s for syriza's five

01:39:18   syriza's plug-in hybrids etc and they

01:39:22   will deliver with like white-glove

01:39:24   service they will deliver the car you

01:39:25   want to your door they will take away

01:39:27   the car you already have and you can be

01:39:30   assured that the car you are given is

01:39:32   freshly detailed etc etc for $3,700 a

01:39:38   month you can alternatively get access

01:39:40   to m4 m5 m6 convertibles as well as x5m

01:39:44   x6m

01:39:45   etc none of these apparently offer the 7

01:39:48   Series but you know whatever but what's

01:39:50   interesting about this is it includes

01:39:52   not only access to the car but insurance

01:39:54   maintenance roadside assistance etcetera

01:39:55   etcetera etcetera so if you are willing

01:39:57   to trade an asinine amount of money for

01:40:00   a fair bit of convenience you can get a

01:40:02   suite or a fleet I should say of BMWs at

01:40:06   your disposal and I think in general

01:40:10   this is a pretty cool idea as long as

01:40:14   you don't have kids where you have to

01:40:15   plug in a car seat as long as you're not

01:40:17   the kind of person that likes to have a

01:40:18   whole bunch of things sitting around in

01:40:20   your car be that a rag or a charger

01:40:24   perhaps a obscenely overpriced car

01:40:26   charger to go with your obscenely

01:40:27   overpriced BMW subscription do you have

01:40:31   a rag in your car yes I have a rag in my

01:40:34   car why wouldn't you have a rag in here

01:40:35   alright what kind of rag do you have

01:40:36   where is it

01:40:37   I believe generally speaking it is a

01:40:40   blue surgical rag that was never used

01:40:43   for surgery but my my uncle was a eye

01:40:46   surgeon for the longest time and he

01:40:48   would either purchase or snag a series

01:40:52   of these blue rags that are probably

01:40:53   about a foot square and they are the

01:40:55   best rags for general purpose use and

01:40:58   they're intended to be used in like

01:40:59   surgeries and things but he would just

01:41:01   grab them and then give a batch to my

01:41:03   dad or me and it is sitting in the

01:41:05   little container compartment whatever in

01:41:08   in the driver side door so if I ever

01:41:09   have to say wipe off the inside of the

01:41:11   inside of the of the windshield because

01:41:15   maybe I've had my windows open and some

01:41:16   like you know that kind of like film

01:41:18   that gets on the inside after a while

01:41:19   you can wipe it off with that if you

01:41:22   ever have to kill a spider because

01:41:23   somehow spider has found its way into

01:41:25   your car yeah but then you're then

01:41:26   you're smearing spiders all over the

01:41:28   windshield after the next time you clean

01:41:29   yeah yeah so the reason I asked about it

01:41:31   is because it brought back memories of

01:41:34   my grandfather who also had a rag in his

01:41:37   car but it was a filthy rag and it was

01:41:39   in the trunk and it was used to clean

01:41:40   off the dipstick when you're checking

01:41:41   the oil yeah that's the I'm more curious

01:41:45   what it what are these rags used for in

01:41:47   the surgery I think to mop up blood and

01:41:49   things like that third eye surgeon

01:41:51   that's it's not terribly useful right or

01:41:53   one would hope not anyway but for

01:41:54   general purpose surgeries I'm assuming

01:41:56   that's what they're for speaking of

01:41:57   surgery and surgical cleanliness the

01:41:59   reason I was moaning about you about

01:42:02   your use of this rag that you keep in

01:42:06   that the door pocket to clean the inside

01:42:08   of your windshield is because mm-hmm be

01:42:11   first of all the inside every wind chill

01:42:12   is a hard spot to clean it's

01:42:13   inconvenient it's hard to reach right

01:42:15   you know like just arm angle wise and

01:42:19   stuff does all sorts of film of your

01:42:22   human gross miss like collects on there

01:42:23   and everything but the other problem

01:42:25   especially I imagined in Casey's car

01:42:27   well that you can correct me if I'm

01:42:28   wrong is that potentially you may use

01:42:31   something to clean the dashboard that is

01:42:34   right below the windshield some kind of

01:42:36   product to to keep that clean there

01:42:38   maintained it or protected from UV or

01:42:40   whatever you're thinking like armor-all

01:42:41   or equivalent or anything like that

01:42:43   right something something other than

01:42:45   just a completely dry rag to clean that

01:42:47   part of your dashboard and make it look

01:42:48   nice

01:42:49   if you touch the rag that you're using

01:42:52   to clean the inside of your dashboard

01:42:54   any part of it

01:42:55   to the the inside of your windshield if

01:42:58   you touch that to the dashboard and then

01:43:00   bring that to your windshield you're in

01:43:01   for a world of hurt because the last

01:43:03   thing you wanted to do is have even a

01:43:04   corner of that thing touch your armor

01:43:06   all covered dashboard and then smear

01:43:08   that all over your window because you

01:43:10   will spend the rest of your life with

01:43:11   your arm at a weird angle of trying to

01:43:12   get that stuff off the inside of your

01:43:14   windshield and it is not easy so to try

01:43:16   it there's some good YouTube videos

01:43:17   about this for the like the correct and

01:43:19   only sane way to clean the inside of

01:43:22   your windshield involves basically

01:43:24   surgical cleanliness it's like you're

01:43:26   like you're in you know this looking

01:43:28   chip fab a cleanroom you must use a rag

01:43:31   perfectly clean freshly cleaned has not

01:43:34   touched anything else you use it to wipe

01:43:36   off the gross film then maybe you can

01:43:38   use the other side of that rag and then

01:43:39   it's done then you have to get your next

01:43:41   rag and you can't touch it to any part

01:43:43   of the trim or anything else that might

01:43:44   have arm roll on it like this is a

01:43:46   disaster alright I have an alternate

01:43:48   policy no armor-all

01:43:50   ever goes in my car I hate armor oh I

01:43:53   hate the idea that I touch any surface

01:43:55   and it's greasy that is awful there was

01:43:57   one time where like a detailer used it

01:44:00   without asking and it drove me nuts I

01:44:04   was like taking like a beach towel like

01:44:06   wiping it like trying to wipe it all off

01:44:08   it was horrible

01:44:10   probably smearing it all over the inside

01:44:12   of your windshield yeah why we're all is

01:44:13   the worst but there are lots of things

01:44:14   that you can use to clean the inside of

01:44:16   your car all of them have in various

01:44:19   ways are you do not want them touching

01:44:20   your windshield no they don't all vacuum

01:44:23   cleaner and cloth that's all you need to

01:44:25   clean a car you don't need like two like

01:44:27   coat your your dashboard with the grease

01:44:31   unfortunately even water even like

01:44:33   dampness the problem is the grease comes

01:44:35   from you from your body

01:44:37   what's collecting on the inside of your

01:44:40   windshield is human scum right it's

01:44:44   coming from inside the car that also

01:44:46   settles on your dashboard so even just

01:44:48   rubbing it with a dry cloth you were

01:44:49   picking up some some grease and if you

01:44:52   if you would like to rub the top of your

01:44:54   dashboard with a dry cloth and then take

01:44:55   that same dry cloth and rub your

01:44:56   windshield you are adding to the mess on

01:44:58   your windshield clean the inside of your

01:44:59   windshield is really hard to do I and

01:45:02   I'm terrible at it by the way like don't

01:45:04   think just because I reference those

01:45:05   YouTube videos I show you how to do it

01:45:06   right I am terrible I which is why I

01:45:07   know

01:45:08   difficult actually is to do I mean maybe

01:45:10   maybe I'm just not as as greasy greasy

01:45:14   is you guys I'm Italian I I don't

01:45:17   I hardly ever have to clean somebody

01:45:18   said I just don't touch it and by not

01:45:20   touching it I almost never have to do

01:45:22   but that is one that is a reasonable

01:45:25   policy because a lot of people make the

01:45:26   mistake of getting something on their

01:45:28   windshield and then they try to like rub

01:45:30   it with their hand or something an

01:45:31   accident has grease on it started the

01:45:33   cycle of grease Christmas but Casey's

01:45:35   rag that thing I would never touch that

01:45:38   to the inside of my windshield because I

01:45:40   think you're just making it worse like

01:45:41   you okay so you need to come on you're

01:45:43   you are fancy enough of a car person you

01:45:45   need to come on board they like time to

01:45:47   crack out the completely sealed

01:45:49   completely sterile never seen the light

01:45:51   of day rag which I will carefully handle

01:45:54   with my perfectly clean hands and wipe

01:45:56   down the inside of my windshield maybe

01:45:59   not even the whole windshield but just

01:46:00   half of it and then throw that thing

01:46:01   away and then your rag just keeping the

01:46:04   keeping the trunk for dipstick checking

01:46:06   or you can just have lower standards can

01:46:07   we get back to the point so BMW has a

01:46:10   subscription starter so do you think the

01:46:11   BMW concierge a car seat what if you

01:46:18   have a rag I mean cuz they they say they

01:46:20   would they will personally deliver the

01:46:21   vehicle they arrived fully fueled and

01:46:24   freshly detailed with personal

01:46:25   preferences already preset say can I get

01:46:29   a filthy rag in the door pocket yeah

01:46:31   well what do you mean by personal

01:46:33   preference is it just like where the

01:46:34   seat is or can it be like can you also

01:46:36   install this particular brand of car

01:46:38   seat in this spot load the pocket below

01:46:40   it with these three toys my kid likes

01:46:41   and wants to play with in the car today

01:46:42   put my brand of sunglasses in the

01:46:44   sunglass holder that is probably not

01:46:46   there because BMW doesn't percent less

01:46:47   holders anywhere how far will this go

01:46:49   could you get them to even pick your

01:46:51   scent in the 7 Series I think yeah like

01:46:53   could you get them to include one of

01:46:55   these surgical rags that mops up KC's

01:46:58   uncle's eye blood in the door pocket so

01:47:00   you can reach it and can can they pre

01:47:03   clean the windshield for you so that you

01:47:05   don't get anyone elses ambient grease

01:47:06   and on your windshield well they say it

01:47:08   is detailed so you shouldn't have to do

01:47:10   anything the windshield should be

01:47:11   sparkling clean when you get it yeah but

01:47:14   I just think this is an interesting

01:47:15   thing the first I'd heard of this was

01:47:17   actually with Volvo with the new XC 40

01:47:20   where you kid

01:47:22   you get euro and XZ 40 and you can the

01:47:27   interesting thing about this actually I

01:47:28   could swear I had read that you can do

01:47:30   this all via an app on your phone which

01:47:33   how does that make sense when there's

01:47:34   payment involved it's not it's like

01:47:36   Netflix for cars you just you just

01:47:38   constantly get a bill for $3,700 every

01:47:40   month and that covers all the cost of

01:47:42   you picking whatever vehicle you want

01:47:44   like it more than covers the cost they

01:47:46   just charge you too much yeah but but in

01:47:49   the case of Volvo you know they're

01:47:50   saying what makes care by Volvo unique

01:47:52   which is what they're calling their

01:47:53   subscription Verve the service no down

01:47:55   payment no price negotiation one flat

01:47:57   monthly fee with no surprises includes

01:47:59   premium insurance no matter where you

01:48:00   live maintenance and excess wear

01:48:01   coverage upgrade to new Volvo is in as

01:48:03   little as 12 months subscribe easily

01:48:05   online or via the app and a 15,000 mile

01:48:07   allowance per year like if I was

01:48:09   interested in an XC 40 which that's not

01:48:12   the kind of car that I particularly want

01:48:13   this is a really really cool idea I

01:48:16   don't know how much the Volvo setup

01:48:18   costs and oh there you go starting $600

01:48:20   a month for the base model $700 a month

01:48:23   for their equivalent of the M Sport

01:48:26   which they call our drive or excuse me

01:48:28   our design but the BMW version is you

01:48:30   know many times that and yes I think

01:48:33   it's a cool idea and I kind of like

01:48:37   where this is going the thought of just

01:48:39   paying one monthly fee to have

01:48:40   everything taken care of is really cool

01:48:43   yeah but but there but believe me

01:48:45   they're charging you for like this is

01:48:46   not none of these things are good deals

01:48:49   financially speaking peace of mind wise

01:48:51   you may be appealing to you to say oh

01:48:52   and I just don't have to worry about it

01:48:54   but you are paying not to worry and

01:48:56   you're paying I loves like like for the

01:48:58   the $3,700 a month one for the high one

01:49:00   to get like the M cards like you can

01:49:03   lease an m5 for like $1,000 a month

01:49:07   and insurance on it is gonna be less

01:49:10   than that more it's not gonna be another

01:49:12   thousand a month at least three M fives

01:49:14   and you could just rotate them each day

01:49:15   yeah and another thing is like you see

01:49:18   you just said like oh it wouldn't it be

01:49:19   great if you could just pay a monthly

01:49:20   fee and have written taken care of you

01:49:23   can do that already it's called leasing

01:49:24   that's it already takes care of almost

01:49:27   all well but it doesn't do insurance

01:49:29   like not to say that paying an insurance

01:49:30   bill it does include maintenance and

01:49:32   roadside assistance and you get a

01:49:33   concierge to your house oh I never tell

01:49:35   you about that

01:49:35   it's the same car all the time I mean

01:49:37   this is totally for rich people who are

01:49:38   like Oh today I want to try this car

01:49:39   today I want to obey Him w came out with

01:49:41   a new car is that included in my head

01:49:42   fix for cars sure it is Oh trade this

01:49:45   you know like you really I feel like you

01:49:46   really have to have a lot of time and

01:49:48   also at Casey's point not a lot of junk

01:49:50   in your car to do this kind of rotation

01:49:52   although like I was trying to think of

01:49:53   things in my life that have been like

01:49:55   this that actually have been

01:49:56   ridiculously good deals and I thought of

01:49:59   one which I'm sure this doesn't exist

01:50:01   anymore but someone can write and tell

01:50:02   me when I was kid I went skiing almost

01:50:04   every year and when I was teen I was

01:50:07   wanted to buy fancy new skis for myself

01:50:09   for a huge amount of money and the only

01:50:14   way to know which keys you wanna buy is

01:50:16   to try a bunch of skis kind of like

01:50:17   test-driving

01:50:18   and at the mountain they have they have

01:50:21   demos you could go to the ski shop and

01:50:22   say I want a demo skis and you'd give

01:50:24   them some paltry amount of money I don't

01:50:27   remember it was maybe it was $15 $10 $20

01:50:30   and how much gonna cost yeah exactly but

01:50:35   it was a really seeming small to me then

01:50:38   right and in exchange for that all day

01:50:41   you can go to the ski shop and point to

01:50:43   the $700 in 1990 money ski behind the

01:50:48   counter that you wanted to try and so I

01:50:49   want to try that one and you've given

01:50:50   your ski boot and they would dress the

01:50:52   bindings and say here you go I need to

01:50:53   go up and take a run you come back down

01:50:55   you say alright let me try that one and

01:50:56   you point to the $800 nineteen nineties

01:50:58   money ski over there and they would take

01:51:00   your boot and adjust the bindings and

01:51:01   give it to you you go up and come back

01:51:02   down you can do that all day they change

01:51:05   skis as many times you want no

01:51:07   additional fee each time every time they

01:51:09   would adjust the bindings for your ski

01:51:11   boots on your weight and you would get

01:51:12   to try hundreds and hundreds and

01:51:13   hundreds of dollars of skis in one day

01:51:15   for one flat fee of like ten or fifteen

01:51:18   dollars now granted the lift tickets

01:51:19   were 100 bucks in 1990 money but my

01:51:21   parents were paying for those so I'd

01:51:22   have to worry about it but I just I

01:51:23   remember being amazed that like what a

01:51:27   good deal it was like there was no

01:51:28   equivalent of that it's as if you could

01:51:30   for a fee of like $80 try as many bbws

01:51:35   as you wanted for a week and just every

01:51:36   time you wanted to go back to the dealer

01:51:37   along I'd try that one now and you'd

01:51:39   have to buy anything at the end of it

01:51:40   and I didn't buy anything at the end of

01:51:42   it I tried all these skis on real ski

01:51:43   mountains which is why I found how I

01:51:45   found my beloved Rossignol 7s to be the

01:51:49   ideal ski

01:51:49   me just alone to this day well and like

01:51:52   that actually is you know one possible

01:51:55   reason why somebody could reasonably

01:51:57   want a plan like this is like I mean I

01:52:00   don't know what if they have like

01:52:00   minimum terms but if you could just sign

01:52:02   up for it for one month and like if you

01:52:05   if you wanted to buy one of these cars

01:52:06   but you couldn't decide which one and

01:52:09   you didn't want to make like an

01:52:09   expensive mistake you you know kiss

01:52:12   $2,000 goodbye or whatever and just try

01:52:15   basically having a one-month test-drive

01:52:17   of all these different models and you

01:52:20   could make you decision that way or say

01:52:22   if you were trying to get a car review

01:52:24   channel off the ground on YouTube and

01:52:25   you needed access to a bunch of cars to

01:52:27   review and you can schedule it so you

01:52:29   had all them you could do them all in

01:52:30   one month like imagine being able to

01:52:33   review like seven different cars in one

01:52:35   month because you'd have access to them

01:52:37   I have to pay Casey for that so we can

01:52:39   have as little demurrer ad in the front

01:52:41   and say I got this car courtesy you know

01:52:44   whatever Toyota the like you do a little

01:52:48   ad for them like they pay you this is

01:52:50   why I'm not a youtube car journalist

01:52:51   yeah well neither am i these days

01:52:53   apparently Porsche also has one called

01:52:55   Porsche passport which is so related so

01:52:57   you could try all two of their cars they

01:53:00   have so many SUVs and Plus up some other

01:53:03   cars in any case I just think it's a

01:53:04   very cool idea I don't I don't know that

01:53:06   it's gonna work for most people not the

01:53:08   least of which because it's obscene

01:53:10   amount of money but like you guys were

01:53:12   saying this is trading money in favor of

01:53:15   convenience and you know to your point

01:53:17   Marko if you're gonna go this route like

01:53:20   there's an argument that leasing would

01:53:22   be just as good or almost as good you

01:53:26   don't get a guaranteed one-year upgrade

01:53:28   in a lease or most leases anyway like

01:53:31   you would within in the case of the

01:53:32   Volvo one and you don't get access to

01:53:34   many cars in a lease like you can and

01:53:37   this BMW or Porsche ones but I do think

01:53:40   it's a cool idea and if you have more

01:53:42   money than sense I mean the good thing

01:53:45   is like this makes leasing look pretty

01:53:46   reasonable by comparison like I'm like

01:53:49   leasing like yeah like you don't get a

01:53:51   you don't get every years new model but

01:53:53   most cars like every year is a really

01:53:56   minor update like in most cars they only

01:53:58   change in substantial ways every you

01:54:01   know three to five years so

01:54:03   you know you don't need to get every

01:54:05   single year and you know while I would

01:54:07   miss the year while you would miss the

01:54:10   concierge with your blood cloth I think

01:54:13   there's a pretty good argument to be

01:54:15   made that like the parts of this that

01:54:17   are appealing to you right now in theory

01:54:19   are really directly saying like you're

01:54:22   ready for a lease that's what this means

01:54:24   like you are so ready for release

01:54:26   because you're like oh I can just pay a

01:54:28   flat monthly fee and then like

01:54:31   maintenance is included yes terribly

01:54:34   used to do that and you don't have to

01:54:37   worry about upgrades down the road yes

01:54:39   yes exactly you can do it now like I can

01:54:44   offer you a wonderful deal where I will

01:54:46   offer you most of this service for a

01:54:49   quarter of the price and you don't even

01:54:51   have to be in Nashville oh that's great

01:54:53   man reason I think of leasing is not for

01:54:55   caseous because it will force him to

01:54:57   make a new car buying decision every

01:54:59   three months and I don't think the show

01:55:00   can handle that yeah even every three

01:55:03   years that's true if people just made

01:55:05   cars I wanted to buy it would be so much

01:55:06   easier

01:55:07   like just make make the model three have

01:55:09   an actual dashboard make the model s not

01:55:11   a bazillion dollars make BMWs that don't

01:55:13   break any of these would be reasonable

01:55:15   options make a Golf R with a sunroof but

01:55:18   here's the thing if you lease if you

01:55:20   start a three-year lease today what

01:55:22   you're doing is just kicking that can

01:55:24   down the road for three years yes so

01:55:25   that's great you can say no but you can

01:55:27   say like you know what I would rather

01:55:28   not think about this for the next three

01:55:30   years I'll get back to it then it's like

01:55:32   snoozing your car angst like he just

01:55:34   snooze it for three years and you know

01:55:37   remind me in three years to revisit the

01:55:39   my car craziness in the meantime I will

01:55:42   happily drive this thing that's being

01:55:43   taken care of by the lease plan and I

01:55:46   don't have to worry about his

01:55:47   maintenance costs and the thing could be

01:55:48   like an m3 or something Casey's just

01:55:50   waiting for BMW to have a roundtable

01:55:53   [Laughter]

01:55:55   manual transmission reliable cars but I

01:55:58   don't think that's in your future no I

01:56:00   don't think so

01:56:00   don't think so

00:00:00   also my throat's burning from all the

00:00:01   ginger I put in my lemon ginger honey

00:00:02   things too much normally I just minced

00:00:06   the ginger but this time I decided to to

00:00:08   put a ginger and hot water solution in

00:00:10   my blender and really puree the crap out

00:00:12   of those really in there and Wow is it

00:00:15   stronger that way using chemical weapons

00:00:17   on yourself next Marco pepper sprays his

00:00:21   throat yeah and then of course all the

00:00:24   ginger like particles sank to the bottom

00:00:26   of the cup so the whole time I was

00:00:28   drinking it wasn't too bad but now I

00:00:30   mean now at the bottom and now it's

00:00:31   every sip is like fire mmm you just need

00:00:35   to get crystallized ginger so you slowly

00:00:36   the crystals did you know that ginger

00:00:41   tea is almost always BS like if you try

00:00:43   to get like just like bad ginger tea so

00:00:46   it's all dried every single one time

00:00:48   I've ever seen includes is one of the

00:00:50   ingredients black pepper

00:00:52   that's why is that BS because you don't

00:00:55   like black pepper because they're trying

00:00:57   to make it feel like fresh ginger with

00:00:59   the burn in the back of your throat by

00:01:01   making you drink black pepper basically

00:01:03   ginger fresh ginger gives you a burn in

00:01:06   the back of your I guess I don't need

00:01:07   enough fresh ginger to know i mean i

00:01:09   gender is spicy it's like there's like a

00:01:11   spice to it but when you dry it out and

00:01:13   and you know make dry teabags with it

00:01:15   you lose that and so to make you think

00:01:18   you're tasting more fresh ginger than

00:01:19   you are they add black pepper to ginger

00:01:22   tea bags to remind you of the burn that

00:01:25   you get with fresh ginger but it's you

00:01:27   know it's it's like engine noises it's

00:01:28   like it's totally fake when do you eat

00:01:30   fresh ginger other than this thing that

00:01:31   you're doing to yourself because you're

00:01:32   sick I'm not sick I use enjoy this okay

00:01:35   yes it's fresh but then you chop it up

00:01:37   and then you cook it you make it hot in

00:01:39   some kind of pain about the ginger that

00:01:41   comes with sushi

00:01:41   that's pickled ah okay and I don't eat

00:01:44   sushi

00:01:45   have you tried it mMmmm neither do I I

00:01:50   finally so my problem is I don't like

00:01:52   fish and I'm allergic to avocado try to

00:01:55   find anything at a sushi restaurant that

00:01:58   contains neither of those things

00:01:59   but anyway I'm eating fresh ginger right

00:02:02   now in this drink it's really good but a

00:02:04   little Bernie but a little Bernie yeah

00:02:07   cuz I'm making my own ginger tea because

00:02:09   actual user tea is bullshit

00:02:10   just because it contains pepper like I'm

00:02:12   not convinced people just are like that

00:02:14   - pepper you think it's it's you think

00:02:16   it's ginger fakery but maybe it's just

00:02:17   it's positive peppering if they if

00:02:21   that's the reason they added it they

00:02:22   would put pepper on the label they was

00:02:24   advertised as ginger pepper tea is zero

00:02:27   of them do this little put salt on the

00:02:30   labels they're solvent

00:02:31   no actually I don't think so let's do

00:02:37   follow-up Peter Kendall writes that he

00:02:39   loves that Marco you purchased an

00:02:41   walkie-talkies for your road trip since

00:02:43   he is an amateur or ham radio operator

00:02:45   and he is glad that they worked well

00:02:47   Peter continues well walkie-talkies

00:02:49   don't have the best range once one

00:02:51   passes an amateur radio exam that you

00:02:53   can get access to much more powerful

00:02:54   radios for example one can get these

00:02:55   mobile radios that pump out 50 watts and

00:02:59   are powered by the 12-volt battery in

00:03:01   your car and to have a detachable head

00:03:02   unit to put on your dash there are other

00:03:04   shapes and sizes as well including

00:03:06   smaller ones that are basically

00:03:06   glorified walkie talkies but more

00:03:08   powerful holy monkey 50 watts is yeah I

00:03:11   don't know anything and I know that's

00:03:12   significant yeah I mean for reference

00:03:14   the walkie talkies maxed out at two

00:03:16   watts and you only get the two watts if

00:03:19   you go on your only legally supposed to

00:03:21   use the the two want versions if you go

00:03:24   to the FCC's website and register for a

00:03:26   GM RS license which I actually did and I

00:03:30   didn't want to get in trouble for using

00:03:32   the tool on channels and I did it

00:03:33   because it was really easy and

00:03:34   inexpensive to do it going all the way

00:03:37   for a full ham radio license is

00:03:39   considerably more involved and I didn't

00:03:42   think it was necessary to communicate

00:03:44   between two vehicles that were usually

00:03:47   at most a few hundred feet apart so it

00:03:50   wasn't necessary for this use case but

00:03:52   ham radio is one of those things like

00:03:54   that there's a lot of overlap between

00:03:55   ham radio and nerd culture and I respect

00:03:59   a lot of it but I don't know that much

00:04:00   about it but ultimately I've never had

00:04:02   much of a reason to get into it because

00:04:05   the the broadcast nature of that hobby

00:04:09   for me I've solved with odd casting and

00:04:10   the like short range communication

00:04:12   nature I've never really had a need

00:04:14   until now and walkie talkies served my

00:04:18   needs perfectly well I put this in here

00:04:20   because I feel like it fits well with

00:04:22   Marcos vinyl revival and

00:04:25   I stopped not that he's gonna be into it

00:04:28   now but maybe this is like the ghost of

00:04:30   Marco future when he wants another tech

00:04:32   thing to get into her maybe find himself

00:04:34   traveling to upstate a lot maybe retires

00:04:35   to upstate and needs to have

00:04:37   walkie-talkies seeing Marco take an

00:04:40   amateur radio exam to get a license for

00:04:42   a more powerful radio is a thing that

00:04:44   seems plausible to me so just put a

00:04:46   marker here come back in 20 years there

00:04:48   is no way I would ever be allowed to put

00:04:50   a giant antenna in my yard once you have

00:04:52   your giant compound upstate you have

00:04:54   plenty of land for that there's some

00:04:58   sort of ham joke here that I just can't

00:05:00   put my finger on I'm more of a brisket

00:05:03   person now that's not that that's not

00:05:05   the ham I was going for but I'll allow

00:05:06   it as long as some one of us got one in

00:05:08   I'm good all right Eduardo ponts writes

00:05:10   if anyone's wondering whether the new

00:05:12   onboarding screens on iOS 11.3 we're all

00:05:14   about gdpr

00:05:15   wonder no more and they include a link

00:05:19   to the photograph of their Apple TV

00:05:21   where there are clearly some string what

00:05:26   would you call these I don't like

00:05:27   placeholders their localization

00:05:28   identifiers basically like like when so

00:05:31   when you're when you're writing an app

00:05:32   that's supposed to be localized to

00:05:33   different languages you usually wrap the

00:05:36   string calls in some kind of

00:05:38   localization layer like NS localized

00:05:40   string or something like that and so the

00:05:41   idea is you you don't just hard code the

00:05:45   language strings are going to be shown

00:05:47   to the user in like the source code you

00:05:49   have some kind of resource file that is

00:05:51   a strings file and then you can localize

00:05:53   the strings file that's just like a list

00:05:55   of all the strings that would be

00:05:56   displayed to a user you can have that

00:05:58   localized by translators and then you

00:06:00   could have a whole bundle of those

00:06:01   things in your app and you can have

00:06:03   different ones show for different

00:06:04   language and locale settings and your

00:06:06   app simply instead of saying like ask

00:06:08   the user are you sure the app says give

00:06:11   me the string for the are you short

00:06:12   dialogue on this page so it might have

00:06:14   some kind of identifier for that some

00:06:16   kind of like you know are you sure dot

00:06:18   identifiers are dot set up dot one or

00:06:19   something like that and so what we see

00:06:22   here is there was some kind of problem

00:06:24   or some kind of bug or something where

00:06:26   the string didn't load and instead it

00:06:29   just showed the identifier and it has

00:06:31   GDP are in the identifiers in the name

00:06:33   of the identifiers for the for the text

00:06:35   of this dialog for these boxes so

00:06:37   clearly Apple

00:06:39   considers these GDP our dialogues right

00:06:41   so like a couple samples a TV for Apple

00:06:43   TV videos GDP our welcome to movies or a

00:06:47   TV videos GDP our continue button label

00:06:49   so yeah it was funny to me because I was

00:06:53   pretty darn confident that this was this

00:06:57   boiled down to GDP our and man there

00:06:59   were not a lot of people who disagreed

00:07:01   but who boy to the people who disagree

00:07:03   they were very confident that we were

00:07:06   wrong and guess what told you so

00:07:07   moving on oh man I did not think to

00:07:11   figure out how to pronounce this say

00:07:14   Liam kellian mr. or mrs. Babcock who

00:07:17   writes in of Dell with technology at the

00:07:20   high school and elementary levels when

00:07:22   it comes to cost and collaboration

00:07:23   features Google wins since that device

00:07:25   is configured and lockdown iOS doesn't

00:07:27   count much as for video editing it

00:07:29   sounds cool but it's a huge time sink I

00:07:31   didn't add this who did what are you

00:07:33   what are we trying to say here I just

00:07:34   put a little bit of etu feedback we got

00:07:36   a lot of people replying so I just want

00:07:39   to have a few samples to sort of cover

00:07:40   the range that's what the next few items

00:07:41   are about fair enough Andrew link writes

00:07:44   creativity is the peak of learning but

00:07:47   40% of the time I'm dealing with quote

00:07:49   unquote classroom management and 50% is

00:07:51   trying to even get students to reach the

00:07:53   baseline there's a broad or there

00:07:55   they're abroad family and cultural

00:07:57   issues to address before tech really

00:07:59   matters

00:08:00   Andrews school or whatever is

00:08:03   implementing Google suite over the next

00:08:04   two years it's a mixed bag the

00:08:05   software's okay that our kid is slowing

00:08:07   everything to a crawl also tween

00:08:10   memories and Google level secure

00:08:12   passwords are painful mix in other words

00:08:14   everyone's always forgetting their

00:08:15   passwords did one of your kids have that

00:08:16   happen to them not me no not me my kid

00:08:20   has good password hygiene I don't even

00:08:22   know if you're serious or not scared to

00:08:25   bits here is that we are people who are

00:08:29   actually in education writing to us and

00:08:32   maybe not all of them

00:08:33   but no matter what it was these people

00:08:35   were using everyone had complaints right

00:08:38   so it's not complaints about the thing

00:08:40   they're not using complaints about the

00:08:41   thing they are using complaints about

00:08:43   the difficulty of the job about the

00:08:45   difficulty of dealing with technology

00:08:46   and no matter what it was they were

00:08:47   using if they were all Apple if they

00:08:49   were all googles they were mix that

00:08:51   everything had problem we know this

00:08:52   Varitek podcast we complain about

00:08:54   technology and we know the frustration

00:08:56   is that most people who aren't tech

00:08:58   enthusiasts feel about technology like

00:09:00   this is frustrated when it doesn't work

00:09:01   especially if it's you're supposed to be

00:09:02   using as part of your job so not not a

00:09:06   lot of feedback was like here's what we

00:09:08   use and we love it and it's awesome

00:09:10   awesome some people like one thing

00:09:11   better than the other one said I'm so

00:09:13   glad I have X it's better than Y but

00:09:15   they all had complaints about whatever

00:09:16   it was they were using so no silver

00:09:19   bullet for our tech in schools and I

00:09:21   particularly like the idea of like that

00:09:23   creativity is the peak of learning sort

00:09:25   of like a pyramid of like you know what

00:09:27   was that uh

00:09:28   said Maslow's hierarchy of needs if

00:09:31   somebody has a hierarchy of need not

00:09:32   sloth yeah it's like you know safety and

00:09:35   bubble and very at the top of like

00:09:37   self-actualization or whatever and so

00:09:39   it's like in the classroom get the kids

00:09:42   to show up get them to be safe get you

00:09:46   know get them to pay attention get them

00:09:48   to absorb something like and creativity

00:09:50   is like when you get all that other

00:09:52   stuff taken care of and then finally

00:09:53   they're allowed to to blossom and that

00:09:55   that's the aspirational nature of what

00:09:57   Apple is pitching that by buying our

00:10:00   products they will enhance the the peak

00:10:03   of learning but you have to get to that

00:10:05   peak first yeah you know you have to

00:10:07   have the students in the seats paying

00:10:10   attention absorbing the material and

00:10:11   then sprout you know spreading their

00:10:14   wings and being creative with the things

00:10:16   that you've successfully taught them it

00:10:18   was interesting to me that um I felt

00:10:20   like a lot of the feedback we got about

00:10:22   education was very contradictory

00:10:24   you know somebody would say oh of course

00:10:25   you would want an iPad the total cost of

00:10:27   ownership is so much better oh you could

00:10:29   never get an iPad the total cost is so

00:10:31   much worse it was very it was very in

00:10:34   and yang and it made me laugh oh yeah

00:10:37   one more thing I didn't put anybody's

00:10:39   feedback and I should have but the idea

00:10:41   of Apple devices or whatever device is

00:10:44   being expensive and then only being

00:10:45   available in the quote-unquote rich

00:10:47   schools lots of people were all right

00:10:49   there seems to be like a disconnect

00:10:50   between the students that attend the

00:10:53   schools and attack space that

00:10:55   potentially feeds into them because a

00:10:56   lot of people are like you know we have

00:10:58   iPads in our school and our it's we're

00:11:00   not in a wealthy area right and so it's

00:11:03   like it doesn't mean necessarily the

00:11:06   students who go to the school are

00:11:09   well-to-do but it seems in some areas

00:11:12   more than others money somehow is

00:11:15   getting to these schools that is not

00:11:17   directly attributable to the incomes of

00:11:20   the individual students who are

00:11:21   attending and I think that's just the

00:11:23   nature of tax spaces it depends on where

00:11:24   you live it depends on how your taxes

00:11:26   are distributed it depends on if there's

00:11:30   some other program that's feeding money

00:11:32   into the school to buy the fancy iPads

00:11:34   for the school that otherwise is not

00:11:36   awash in cash I mean that I can tell you

00:11:41   the opposite here where where I live

00:11:43   it's filled with rich people and yet a

00:11:46   lot of the technology in the schools too

00:11:48   my kids attend especially elementary

00:11:50   school is entirely funded directly by

00:11:52   the parents as in there is no money in

00:11:55   the school budget for technology

00:11:56   whatsoever and the only reason there's

00:11:58   any technology is because all the kids

00:12:00   parents are rich and give directly money

00:12:02   to buy like if you want to see any

00:12:04   computers in your kids school you're

00:12:06   gonna have to collect money and give

00:12:08   them to us right and is it because the

00:12:12   tax base is a big enough here no I can't

00:12:14   possibly be it it's just a question of

00:12:16   budgeting and how much money goes

00:12:17   towards elementary and how much priority

00:12:19   they put on putting technology in school

00:12:23   versus you know tearing down one a local

00:12:26   elementary school and rebuilding it to

00:12:28   be this Taj Mahal multi-million dollar

00:12:30   amazing piece of construction right that

00:12:34   costs a lot more money than iPads and

00:12:36   that was not funded by people's parents

00:12:38   with direct contributions but with good

00:12:39   old-fashioned taxes and bonds would one

00:12:43   of you like to tell me about what

00:12:44   happens when you open a new document in

00:12:46   pages I think there is a video of it

00:12:49   this is related to our topic for like

00:12:50   how do you how do you how do people find

00:12:53   help in iOS apps when the screen is so

00:12:55   small how do you communicate the

00:12:57   features of your application so people

00:13:00   know when it launches what you can do

00:13:01   with it begin because the screen is so

00:13:03   small and there's no I'm the president

00:13:05   menu bar with a help menu and we were we

00:13:09   talked about the bad ways you can do

00:13:10   this by circling a bunch of stuff on the

00:13:11   screen and throwing a bunch of words at

00:13:13   people's faces putting it pointing a

00:13:15   finger and said this

00:13:16   this thing to do this tap that thing to

00:13:17   do that tap that thing I'm expecting

00:13:19   them to memorize at the one time they

00:13:20   see it

00:13:21   so there's Benjamin Mayo tweeted a

00:13:22   little video of what happens and I'm

00:13:26   assuming this is a new version of pages

00:13:28   on iOS so they have you know what you do

00:13:32   have visible in many iOS applications is

00:13:33   a toolbar with some glyphs on it some

00:13:36   kind I conjure glyphs either whether

00:13:37   it's the top or at the bottom and in

00:13:40   pages this looks like on a phone you

00:13:42   launch it and the new collaboration

00:13:45   glyph pulses like if it gets a little

00:13:47   bigger and smaller I don't know if it

00:13:48   ever stops pulsing cuz in the video we

00:13:50   tap sit right away right but if you tap

00:13:53   it it takes you to this little video

00:13:55   that shows you like oh the collaborate

00:13:57   feature and it sort of does this

00:13:58   wordless animation showing you how

00:14:01   collaboration might work it's pretty

00:14:02   good animation that communicates without

00:14:04   too much text kind of what collaboration

00:14:08   does it has a brief explanation but then

00:14:11   shows you a bunch of thing I don't know

00:14:12   it I think you kind of already have to

00:14:14   know how collaboration works to

00:14:15   understand what a video frankly but

00:14:17   that's I mean I don't know if I like

00:14:21   that better than the overlay but I guess

00:14:23   it's certainly trying to be more subtle

00:14:25   I just can imagine people launching the

00:14:27   app and going why's that button pulsing

00:14:29   especially if it doesn't stop or if it

00:14:30   does stop you might think you're you

00:14:32   know going a little bit mad that like I

00:14:34   could swear last time I launched his

00:14:36   application part of the toolbar was

00:14:37   pulsing sure I wasn't under cold

00:14:41   medicine or anything anyways I just

00:14:43   thought it was interesting

00:14:44   here's Apple trying alternate solutions

00:14:48   to scribbling over screen with a bunch

00:14:50   of arrows so keep trying Apple we are

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00:17:04   [Music]

00:17:06   Apple giveth and Apple taketh away good

00:17:09   news 200 gigs of free our cloud storage

00:17:12   for bad news every managed Apple ID

00:17:14   account that's involved in education

00:17:16   womp-womp

00:17:17   Freeman up because we talk about oh they

00:17:19   need to give more iCloud storage to

00:17:21   everybody and you know they haven't for

00:17:24   a really long time someone put it how

00:17:26   long it was like seven years there's

00:17:27   nothing since the five gig free yeah I

00:17:29   think it's since I flab was introduced

00:17:31   like it was never less than five gigs

00:17:32   that's what it's during it yeah and so

00:17:35   for education this this is something a

00:17:37   lot of people cited and feedback

00:17:39   including one that just came in just

00:17:40   before the show like how much it cost to

00:17:42   buy all the third-party things you have

00:17:44   by to fill in the gaps in functionality

00:17:45   that Apple doesn't offer including

00:17:47   having cloud storage which according to

00:17:49   an email we just got I believe a person

00:17:52   said that there is no way to pay for

00:17:53   more iCloud storage for students like

00:17:56   even if you wanted to give them more

00:17:57   money for more you couldn't I'm not you

00:18:00   know that seems that seems very strange

00:18:03   to me but anyway Apple said hey we're

00:18:04   increasing to two hundred and got lots

00:18:06   of applause but why wouldn't you you

00:18:07   know two hundred gigabytes free up from

00:18:08   five that is a big increase but for

00:18:11   people who are not students still five

00:18:14   gigabytes and you know we've heard from

00:18:17   lots of other you know podcasters and

00:18:19   fans and Apple users we I keep hearing

00:18:23   that everyone expects that oh well

00:18:25   they're just waiting until WTC in June

00:18:28   and that's when they're going to raise

00:18:29   the limits for everybody for free I

00:18:31   honestly would not consider that a safe

00:18:34   bet at all

00:18:35   in fact I might even bet against that

00:18:37   you know we did the five gigs is indeed

00:18:41   comically stingy and even was seven

00:18:44   years ago when I'm pretty sure Steve

00:18:45   Jobs introduced it but you know it was

00:18:48   it was bad then and it's bad now but

00:18:51   services are apple's biggest area of

00:18:53   potential growth I think I don't think

00:18:55   they're gonna want to give up services

00:18:57   revenue that easily and this is probably

00:19:00   not a small portion of it like you know

00:19:02   the people who upgrade to and iCloud a

00:19:05   pate iCloud storage plan for you know

00:19:07   basic functionality of their iOS devices

00:19:10   really that's probably not a small

00:19:12   amount of their services revenue so I

00:19:15   can't imagine them all of a sudden

00:19:16   raising it to a level that would cover

00:19:19   way more people for free it'd be nice if

00:19:22   this happens Apple has in the past

00:19:25   occasionally intentionally taken a hit

00:19:28   on margin to do something really

00:19:30   compelling for consumers and they'll

00:19:31   usually even warn analysts of that in

00:19:33   like one of the earnings calls

00:19:34   beforehand but honestly I don't I just

00:19:37   don't see that I mean that happened a

00:19:39   lot more in the past than it does now

00:19:41   and I don't see them giving up a big

00:19:43   chunk of services revenue when that is

00:19:46   clearly an area where they're focusing a

00:19:48   lot on and depending on for growth I

00:19:51   think the balance that they have to keep

00:19:54   looking at is

00:19:55   how many how many people buy it how

00:19:59   people are willing to pay money for

00:20:01   extra storage versus how many people are

00:20:03   at their storage limits but still I'm

00:20:05   willing to pay because when you're at

00:20:07   your storage limit and they're still

00:20:08   unwilling to pay that becomes apple's

00:20:12   problem if it starts to affect their

00:20:13   satisfaction like that they don't like

00:20:15   apple because it's like they they want

00:20:16   to charge me money I don't want to give

00:20:18   them any money and my phone is

00:20:19   constantly full because a constantly

00:20:21   full phone is a bad user experience it

00:20:23   yells you about having too much storage

00:20:24   you can't take pictures you have to

00:20:25   choose precious things that you want to

00:20:27   delete it's a bad experience right and

00:20:30   so it is in Apple's interest to get

00:20:33   people somehow to have more storage

00:20:35   ideally by paying Apple money right

00:20:37   that's they prefer but if it turns out

00:20:40   that nothing they do can dislodge this

00:20:42   very large percentage of people who

00:20:44   refuse to pay money and constantly have

00:20:46   full phones that's not a good situation

00:20:48   now maybe it's still just a fraction of

00:20:50   people maybe like people do in the end

00:20:51   they complain but they pay and that an

00:20:53   apple may be willing to do that and then

00:20:55   you know people feel better but whenever

00:20:57   I see somebody with a full iOS device

00:21:00   who refuses to pay for additional

00:21:02   storage I I feel apples pain by proxy

00:21:06   this person is dissatisfied or

00:21:08   unsatisfied whichever those is the

00:21:09   correct word with their product and

00:21:13   there's an obvious solution that doesn't

00:21:16   cost that much money but there's no way

00:21:19   you will convince them to pay for you

00:21:21   know pay for nothing to pay for air to

00:21:23   pay for whatever storage should be free

00:21:25   bla bla bla software should be free like

00:21:27   it's it's a tough sell but it really

00:21:30   does affect their opinion of their

00:21:33   device maybe not enough to get them on

00:21:35   to another device maybe eventually be at

00:21:36   them on the device but they are mad

00:21:37   about it so I think that's that's a

00:21:39   problem Apple needs to address in some

00:21:40   way maybe they can address it just by

00:21:42   reducing the prices or changing the

00:21:43   tears or cleverly arranging the tears

00:21:46   such that people get on board like with

00:21:48   the thin end of the wedge like get on

00:21:49   board a cheapo tear and then slowly like

00:21:51   ratchet up as they need storage to like

00:21:53   to make it feel better for people to pay

00:21:55   for storage because I think that's the

00:21:57   big barrier the big barrier is not how

00:21:59   much it costs it's getting people over

00:22:01   the hump from not paying anything to

00:22:03   paying something oh yeah because like

00:22:06   you know so much of this is

00:22:07   psychological

00:22:09   it's it's more about feeling than about

00:22:11   whether you can afford or not afford the

00:22:14   you know whatever whatever's the

00:22:16   cheapest planning like three bucks a

00:22:17   month or something and a lot of it is

00:22:19   more like you know people are just kind

00:22:20   of annoyed on principle that they have

00:22:22   to pay for this or they're annoyed on

00:22:23   principle that their phone is bugging

00:22:24   them about this thing that they haven't

00:22:25   even actually really rather looked into

00:22:27   they just know that their phones bugging

00:22:28   them or they're annoyed on principle

00:22:30   that they only get five gigs for free

00:22:31   and and that bugs them or they look at

00:22:34   the prices of additional storage on

00:22:36   other services like Dropbox and how it

00:22:38   compares and they're like oh this is a

00:22:39   bad deal and and so like it's it's so

00:22:42   much more about like I don't want to pay

00:22:44   then I can't afford the X dollars a

00:22:47   month in a lot of cases or they're

00:22:50   putting their money like you said

00:22:51   towards a different thing like well if

00:22:52   I'm gonna pay for storage I'm gonna get

00:22:53   the most bang for my buck and that takes

00:22:55   people off Apple services if you're

00:22:56   using Dropbox for all your file surge

00:22:57   you know it's actually even more viable

00:23:00   now that Apple has the you know the

00:23:01   share shoot integration for Dropbox and

00:23:03   stuff but you know like I think Apple

00:23:06   would be upset if people decided to use

00:23:10   Google photos instead of Apple's photo

00:23:12   solution like I think Apple wants you to

00:23:13   use their photo solution for a variety

00:23:15   of reasons well they should be trying a

00:23:17   little harder on a variety of fronts

00:23:18   then sure yeah and I think Apple would

00:23:21   tell you that their photo solution is

00:23:22   like you know better on privacy and all

00:23:24   those other reasons how you might use it

00:23:25   but if you are conta you know that's the

00:23:27   feature that Google has hammer tap on if

00:23:30   you're constantly running out of storage

00:23:31   because you're filling up your phone

00:23:32   with videos and photos and Apple wants

00:23:36   you to pay more money and Google says

00:23:37   don't pay us anything we'll keep an

00:23:38   unlimited amount of your photos where's

00:23:40   quality asterisk forever and ever people

00:23:43   say oh well then why would I pay for the

00:23:44   Apple thing I'm just gonna use Google

00:23:46   photos and I'm gonna use you know the

00:23:48   Google Photos app instead of the Apple

00:23:49   Photos app and I'm gonna use the Google

00:23:50   Website and like Apple doesn't want you

00:23:52   to go all in on the Google ecosystem

00:23:53   right so the Apple should do something I

00:23:58   don't know if that means increase the

00:24:00   five gig tier to 200 for everybody for

00:24:02   free but something would be nice you

00:24:04   know what it is that bothers me so much

00:24:05   about this is that I feel like five gigs

00:24:08   is it egregiously obnoxiously paltry

00:24:12   amounts if it was maybe as much is the

00:24:16   smallest modern iPhone so let's say it's

00:24:19   thirty or whatever gigs you know 32 gigs

00:24:21   are there abouts

00:24:22   that at least feels like okay they're

00:24:24   giving you something reasonable if you

00:24:27   have one single iPhone attached to your

00:24:29   Apple ID it stands to reason that you

00:24:31   should be able to back that up to iCloud

00:24:33   for free that to me would be still more

00:24:37   paltry than I would want like something

00:24:39   along the lines of 200 gigs sounds

00:24:41   really great you know but let's say for

00:24:43   the sake of argument you know 32 gigs is

00:24:45   is what they're going to bring tomorrow

00:24:48   that's tomorrow you can have 32 gig

00:24:49   storage then I wouldn't be as offended

00:24:52   by it I would be slightly annoyed but I

00:24:54   wouldn't be frigging offended but five

00:24:57   gigs is like man screw you you don't

00:25:00   have any storage you know but here fine

00:25:02   fine okay we'll give you a little bit be

00:25:06   happy about that

00:25:07   it's just it's I just find it obnoxious

00:25:09   it's so little and that's the thing that

00:25:11   bothers me yeah under how much of this

00:25:13   is just like inertia like like if they

00:25:15   were launching the service today I doubt

00:25:18   that the number they would pick would be

00:25:20   five gigs but you know it's probably

00:25:22   hard for them to you know first of all

00:25:24   in typical Apple fashion they probably

00:25:27   don't look at this very often you know

00:25:28   like they set it up it's going and it's

00:25:33   probably you know a lot like a lot of

00:25:34   their hardware releases very like it

00:25:36   just gets ignored for years until

00:25:38   somebody realizes they should look at it

00:25:40   eventually and so I'm guessing this

00:25:42   hasn't actually been reconsidered that

00:25:43   often and then because there's the

00:25:47   inertia of having it there for so long

00:25:49   the idea of increasing it by by a large

00:25:52   amount probably does scare them on two

00:25:54   fronts number one you know Marg and as

00:25:56   mentioned earlier they're probably

00:25:57   afraid of that services revenue going

00:25:58   down or or having the growth slowdown

00:26:00   and number two every iOS device is a lot

00:26:05   of iOS devices and so the scale of the

00:26:08   scale at which they would have to scale

00:26:10   this up they they probably can't offer

00:26:12   something like a terabyte for free to

00:26:15   everybody because there probably aren't

00:26:16   enough hard drive in the world or

00:26:18   something like that like there is

00:26:19   probably some kind of major limit on

00:26:21   scale in place here I don't know where

00:26:23   that limit is it's gotta be way higher

00:26:25   than five gigs but they probably

00:26:27   couldn't say offer 200 gigs to everybody

00:26:31   like that that might be too high or it

00:26:33   might be just impractical or it might be

00:26:35   like me

00:26:36   they can do it in a couple years maybe

00:26:37   not yet so there you know there's

00:26:39   definitely I guarantee you to some kind

00:26:41   of scale concerns there whether they are

00:26:42   impassable or not I don't know but you

00:26:46   know if you start doing the math of how

00:26:47   many active iOS devices there are out

00:26:49   there and and how many you know how many

00:26:51   hard drives and data centers and stuff

00:26:53   they would need it is pretty large

00:26:55   numbers so there is definitely a factor

00:26:57   there but it might not you know its way

00:26:59   it's gotta be higher than five cakes oh

00:27:01   there's a new single region only variant

00:27:04   of s3 for twenty-two percent less than

00:27:05   the regular price how could get right on

00:27:08   that I'm trying to think back to when

00:27:11   the five gig limit was introduced and

00:27:14   I'm pretty sure that five gigs was

00:27:16   always positioned as this is not enough

00:27:19   for you - this is not cover you even

00:27:23   there wasn't the Apple never sold the

00:27:24   five gig device with a five K good thing

00:27:26   it was always so clearly the starter

00:27:29   price you get a little bit for free but

00:27:32   if you use and fill whatever device you

00:27:34   purchased fine you're gonna run out of

00:27:36   five gigs so it was always with the

00:27:40   expectation that if you fill the device

00:27:42   you need to buy more five gigs today

00:27:44   still is something that if you get it

00:27:47   and you feel that it ice you got to buy

00:27:48   more it's so it fulfills the same role

00:27:50   like it is it is equally able to cause

00:27:53   people to hit the limit right and

00:27:56   arguably with with the he can he's you

00:27:59   know h.265 stuff you could hit your

00:28:03   limits more slowly now than you did last

00:28:05   year because your images are half the

00:28:07   size and stuff and now you can fit ten

00:28:09   minutes of 4k video yeah but in general

00:28:11   things every every photo and every video

00:28:14   is so much bigger than it was back when

00:28:15   the five gig limit was introduced that

00:28:17   it you know it feels more punitive now

00:28:19   than it did before it's just it's a

00:28:22   bummer classrooms for Mac so there's

00:28:25   already classrooms app for iPad maybe

00:28:27   iPhone I don't remember doesn't really

00:28:29   matter for iOS and they said classrooms

00:28:31   for Mac is coming in June as a beta what

00:28:36   why not now as a beta why June well

00:28:41   there's one clear well I shouldn't say

00:28:43   clear answer there's one clear theory

00:28:45   about that

00:28:47   there's one hopeful theory

00:28:49   and probably a few other explanations

00:28:51   that are less interesting right and one

00:28:54   of the less interesting ones is probably

00:28:55   the accurate you know real answer but

00:28:57   the fun theory that we can pontificate

00:28:59   about is marzipan which is that supposed

00:29:02   cross-platform framework that is maybe

00:29:05   but maybe not coming at WWDC and perhaps

00:29:09   that's why we can't talk about it

00:29:12   because there's more things to come in

00:29:15   June at WDC and then they will all be

00:29:17   made clear that's why you can't download

00:29:19   it like because if you download it then

00:29:21   everyone just you know run class dump or

00:29:22   whatever and look at the frameworks but

00:29:24   speaking of frameworks the the much more

00:29:26   boring explanation it's it's UX kit the

00:29:28   same thing that photos and stuff is made

00:29:30   out of like when when Apple has been in

00:29:31   situations in the past where there's an

00:29:33   iOS device and they want something more

00:29:35   or less like that iOS device on the Mac

00:29:37   they have ways of doing that that don't

00:29:39   involve the rumored cross platform

00:29:42   framework thing yeah and also it might

00:29:45   not be ready yet it actually is they're

00:29:48   just not done writing it and that's and

00:29:49   that I think is by far the most likely I

00:29:51   love the idea of this project marzipan

00:29:54   thing I really hope it's real and I do

00:29:56   think this summer would not be an

00:29:57   unreasonable time to launch it into beta

00:29:59   that would be a really fun explanation

00:30:01   for this it's much more likely that it

00:30:03   just isn't ready yet because it is not

00:30:06   like the fact that Apple said here's an

00:30:08   event that we're going to announce

00:30:09   something but you can't actually see it

00:30:12   or buy it or use it yet for a few months

00:30:14   that's so common now like that that's

00:30:18   constantly used for all sorts of reasons

00:30:20   for all sorts of products it the most

00:30:23   rare thing now is when they have an

00:30:25   event and then on something that's ready

00:30:27   right then you can buy like today or

00:30:28   tomorrow that's the less common case now

00:30:31   so the fact this isn't ready yet I

00:30:32   really I I think it's unlikely that it

00:30:35   has any other meaning other than it's

00:30:37   not ready yet but it probably is using

00:30:39   UX kit because I don't see why they

00:30:40   would pour something from iOS and not

00:30:42   use the framework they have that they

00:30:44   have you successfully deport a bunch of

00:30:46   stuff from iOS right that's not the

00:30:48   cross flight that's not marzipan but it

00:30:50   is a way that Apple has done this in the

00:30:51   past and I'm sure you know it saves some

00:30:53   time especially if marzipan requires

00:30:56   support the OS level on the Mac side

00:30:58   which it probably would I they probably

00:31:01   wouldn't have that support in

00:31:03   hi Sierra it would probably be pushed to

00:31:05   the next version of Mac OS or maybe even

00:31:06   the one after that if it's gonna launch

00:31:08   in beta and that's not gonna be ready in

00:31:11   time for this coming school year it's

00:31:13   gonna be launched probably in like

00:31:14   October or something and no IT

00:31:17   administrators should be installing it

00:31:18   in October it's so so you know it's

00:31:21   probably just not ready yet

00:31:22   then setting aside new bikes kit like

00:31:24   the way like I knew Apple applications

00:31:30   to be iOS like whether or not they use

00:31:33   your xcode under the covers when they

00:31:35   just feel like an iOS app photos

00:31:36   certainly does I think maps maps maybe

00:31:41   contacts or notes depending on how you

00:31:43   squint at them reminders calendar yeah

00:31:46   it could be argued that this is actually

00:31:47   not iOS like but merely the modern Mac

00:31:50   way like apples trying to say this is

00:31:51   what modern man can look like but if you

00:31:53   use iOS a lot a lot of things look

00:31:56   mighty familiar and again I didn't I'm

00:31:58   not looking at the you know I'm not

00:31:59   class dumping every single one of these

00:32:00   apps to see do they actually use the

00:32:02   same framework as photos or is it you

00:32:04   know but from a user's perspective they

00:32:07   vary they feel very iOS see in this case

00:32:09   we know it's an application that already

00:32:11   existed in iOS and so it makes sense

00:32:13   that they would use some technique to

00:32:15   reuse some of the work that they've

00:32:17   already done in iOS rather than

00:32:18   reloading it from scratch in app kit but

00:32:21   I'm sure when this application comes out

00:32:23   some of them will tell us definitively

00:32:25   probably Steve John Smith I have one

00:32:27   quickie I just wanted to share I have

00:32:30   finally joined the world of inductive

00:32:33   charging and by and large my phone for

00:32:36   the last couple of weeks now has not had

00:32:39   anything plugged into it and inductive

00:32:41   charging is pretty cool turns out who

00:32:44   knew oh that's right I told you this a

00:32:46   long time ago well but the difference

00:32:48   between you and me is I didn't crap all

00:32:50   over inductive charging I just said oh

00:32:51   that sounds neat sir anyway the point

00:32:54   I'm trying to say is the most that that

00:32:57   I think you and most of the rest of

00:32:59   world recommended is really great and I

00:33:01   got what appears to be like what is

00:33:04   aesthetically a terrible mount for my

00:33:07   car but in in functionality is a really

00:33:09   great mount for my car and so what I can

00:33:12   do is I can get in my car I can just

00:33:14   kind of drop

00:33:15   my phone in this little mount and it

00:33:17   starts charging and when I want to leave

00:33:19   my car I just pick it up out of the

00:33:20   mount and it's super convenient I'm only

00:33:23   ever in my car for like two minutes at a

00:33:24   time so I'm doing this just because I

00:33:25   think it's cool not because it's ever

00:33:27   particularly useful but inductive

00:33:29   charging super cool and it is super

00:33:31   weird after having had an iPhone since

00:33:33   the 3GS to have gone for like two weeks

00:33:36   without having plugged anything to my

00:33:38   phone so odd but I love it yeah it's

00:33:41   like I know a lot of people try and it's

00:33:43   not for them that's cool

00:33:44   I I find it very much for me as well

00:33:47   like I really like now plugging in my

00:33:51   phone like when I travel it just feels

00:33:53   barbaric it's like wait man like I have

00:33:55   to plug this am like this is so weird

00:33:56   yeah the one thing I will I do still

00:33:59   plug it in in the car I did so in our

00:34:01   episode about my $7 piece of garbage

00:34:03   that I was using to mount my phone on my

00:34:05   car before a bunch of people wrote in to

00:34:08   recommend better phone mounts and by far

00:34:10   the most commonly recommended one is the

00:34:13   pro clip line of products and you

00:34:15   basically you go on pro cliff site and

00:34:17   you buy like a certain like base that's

00:34:20   made to fit exactly your model of car

00:34:22   and then you buy like the second part of

00:34:25   it which is like the phone part that you

00:34:27   you buy exactly the one for exactly the

00:34:29   phone you have and they enter the

00:34:30   interface in some kind of standard way

00:34:31   and so you like when you get a new phone

00:34:33   you can just replace the phone part and

00:34:35   you get a new car you just place the car

00:34:36   part and it's not cheap the combination

00:34:40   of both the both sides of this was $90

00:34:44   holy hell mess up your dashboard - right

00:34:48   well no so it does a like a pressure fit

00:34:52   inside one of the air vents so it just

00:34:54   it's like it's like pushing against the

00:34:56   top and bottom of the air vent to kind

00:34:57   of wedge yourself in there with like a

00:34:58   little rubber pad under it to keep it in

00:35:00   place and I gotta say it is really

00:35:03   really solid like my is the only thing

00:35:07   I've seen that has that actually keeps

00:35:10   the phone like totally still you know

00:35:12   you can run over a bump or anything the

00:35:14   phone does not move like it is it is

00:35:17   attached very firmly to the car it was

00:35:19   very easy to get and install the cable

00:35:22   routings my got the kind I got the let's

00:35:25   see the adjustable phone adjustable

00:35:28   iPhone holder for

00:35:29   lightning to USB cable so what you do is

00:35:30   it has like a little clamp in the bottom

00:35:32   you actually stick an apple cable into

00:35:34   it and this is this is where I used my

00:35:35   one black Apple lightning cable from my

00:35:38   iMac Pro I use it here it look better in

00:35:41   black and it is basically a dock and so

00:35:45   I just stick my phone into it and it is

00:35:48   getting a wired charge and it just stays

00:35:50   right there and it's awesome the only

00:35:52   major downside to this is that it's not

00:35:55   it's combo it was it was 34 the car part

00:35:59   and 60 for the iPhone adjustable thing

00:36:01   with the cable so again why not cheap

00:36:03   way more than my seven dollar piece of

00:36:05   garbage however also way nicer than my

00:36:08   seven dollar piece of garbage and I can

00:36:10   see myself keeping this up as long as I

00:36:13   continue to use ways on a semi-regular

00:36:15   basis in my car I think as I get new

00:36:18   phones and new cars down the road I

00:36:20   think I will probably stay in the pro

00:36:21   clip yukos system for now cuz it is

00:36:23   surprisingly nice like you can like take

00:36:26   the phone out with one hand and the

00:36:28   mount doesn't move and stuff like that

00:36:30   like it just it's just nice like it's

00:36:32   it's solid and heavy-duty and just

00:36:34   really nice the reason I stick with

00:36:36   wired charging which is why I thought of

00:36:39   this here is that Qi charging is not

00:36:43   fast enough to charge the phone and run

00:36:46   ways it can keep the phone at about the

00:36:50   same charge level it's already at or

00:36:52   maybe very slowly trickle charge it well

00:36:55   but like the the charge rate really

00:36:57   requires a 10 watt plug like like what

00:37:00   you get from the iPad bricks or from the

00:37:02   high powered USB chargers so it really

00:37:04   requires that too both runways

00:37:06   constantly and also charge the phone and

00:37:09   a meaningful rate and you right now I

00:37:11   don't think any Qi charger even the 7.5

00:37:13   watt movie one I don't think any of them

00:37:15   can actually do it fast enough so for Qi

00:37:19   charging in cars I've still honestly

00:37:21   can't recommend that unless you are very

00:37:23   light with your phone's usage in the car

00:37:25   but for Wired stuff I can recommend Pro

00:37:28   clip if you were willing to spend $90 on

00:37:31   a clip for your phone to your car this

00:37:33   is the difference between you and me in

00:37:35   summary you bought one car charger for

00:37:38   ninety dollars you could buy three and a

00:37:42   half

00:37:42   of the inductive chargers that I just

00:37:44   bought which admittedly are not nearly

00:37:47   as nice I'm quite sure but three and a

00:37:49   half if the Chargers still can't charge

00:37:50   my phone for ways know what I'm saying

00:37:53   this is this is you and me in a nutshell

00:37:56   I don't need three and a half chargers I

00:37:57   need one charge

00:37:59   I'm just saying also before we get a

00:38:02   bazillion pieces of email do we really

00:38:05   care about the report that came out

00:38:08   recently I don't remember where I saw it

00:38:10   about how wireless charging destroys

00:38:12   your battery because it's when it's

00:38:14   trying to keep your battery topped up

00:38:16   it's like discharging recharging

00:38:17   discharging recharging discharging

00:38:19   recharging I don't think I really care

00:38:22   that much and maybe I will if I see that

00:38:25   my battery is not doing well which maybe

00:38:27   I could do in this new battery window or

00:38:29   a screen in settings but I don't know

00:38:32   man like especially someone who keeps

00:38:34   iPhones only for a year I just don't

00:38:36   care like Apple wouldn't have made this

00:38:39   a thing if they thought it was going to

00:38:40   nuke their batteries so hashtag yellow I

00:38:44   thought that pitch was that it was heat

00:38:45   yeah part of the idea was that because

00:38:48   Qi charging generates some heat like a

00:38:51   little more heat than regular charging

00:38:52   that it that you know charging your

00:38:54   battery in a hot environment is worse

00:38:56   for it you know just operating your

00:38:58   battery in a hot environment is worse

00:39:00   for it so there's you know there might

00:39:01   be something to that I can't imagine you

00:39:04   know because it's Apple is doing like

00:39:06   the management of the charging on the

00:39:07   phone end in their firmware I can't

00:39:09   imagine they would allow it to abuse the

00:39:13   battery like that I think they would

00:39:14   control that a little bit better well

00:39:16   that's not abuse that everything does

00:39:17   that laptops and phones they they don't

00:39:19   they allow it to discharge a little bit

00:39:21   and then trickle it up and then

00:39:22   discharge a little bit do that

00:39:23   everything every device has done that

00:39:25   forever that's good I I don't think duck

00:39:28   dude does that anymore than plugged in

00:39:30   because like marques that Apple's

00:39:31   controlling it but if all charging

00:39:34   things produce more heat for equivalent

00:39:36   power transfer to the battery which

00:39:37   makes sense to me for a you know

00:39:39   inductive type thing then maybe you have

00:39:41   a little bit extra heat yeah but

00:39:43   regardless I think the you know just

00:39:45   using your phone on a regular basis is

00:39:48   probably doing way more you know where

00:39:50   on the battery then the minor

00:39:53   differences in how you charge it

00:39:56   generally charging it more slowly is

00:39:58   usually better for its long-term health

00:40:01   but again a twitch and an image case she

00:40:04   charges should actually be really good

00:40:05   for a good theory but you know I it's a

00:40:08   kind of thing like you know we talked

00:40:09   about before if you just use your phone

00:40:11   normally you're gonna burn through

00:40:13   batteries you know over a year or two

00:40:15   and now that Apple's offering less

00:40:17   expensive battery replacements I think

00:40:20   if you care about this kind of thing

00:40:22   it's much more reasonable to just going

00:40:24   after two years again a new battery for

00:40:25   30 bucks then to have to micromanage

00:40:29   your entire life around not using

00:40:31   convenient things or trying to like

00:40:33   tiptoe around the battery because you

00:40:34   know no matter what you do it's gonna

00:40:35   wear out and a reasonable amount of time

00:40:38   like it's gonna it's gonna wear out

00:40:39   probably around the same amount of time

00:40:40   as it would have no matter what you did

00:40:41   so you might as well use your phone to

00:40:43   its fullest potential use whatever is

00:40:45   convenient about it use it how you want

00:40:46   to use it and if your battery wears out

00:40:48   in a year and a half or two years just

00:40:50   get a new battery for 30 bucks and just

00:40:52   plan for that ahead of time and try to

00:40:54   live a healthy life so you can live long

00:40:55   enough for some battery technology to

00:40:57   come out that has way longer charge

00:40:59   cycle failure rates like I don't think

00:41:01   we can expect the infinite like I can

00:41:03   charge and recharge and uncharged just a

00:41:05   million times and it never degrades

00:41:06   right but if you can just change it from

00:41:08   whatever these bad all your batteries

00:41:09   are rated I like the rate of like a

00:41:10   thousand cycles or something before that

00:41:12   could put if that was you know 100,000

00:41:15   it would seem like that you could use a

00:41:16   phone basically forever and the battery

00:41:19   was as good the day you bought it as the

00:41:20   day it went away we are not living in

00:41:23   the current time with that technology

00:41:24   available but there are lots of research

00:41:26   things that are all the the cliched five

00:41:31   to ten years away so stay alive long

00:41:33   enough and you might see one of those

00:41:34   happen I will also say if you are

00:41:38   interested in getting a better

00:41:39   replacement maybe wait on that a little

00:41:41   bit because you have no choice isn't I'm

00:41:43   to like four months now yeah yeah we

00:41:45   keep hearing from people that the wait

00:41:46   times span from weeks to months for

00:41:49   getting new batteries you know there's

00:41:52   so many people going in now after a

00:41:53   battery gate scandal and now with 11.3

00:41:55   actually telling them you know whether

00:41:58   the battery is degraded or not there's a

00:42:00   lot of people going in and apparently

00:42:02   the wait for the battery is at the

00:42:04   Genius Bar is literally like weeks or

00:42:06   months in a lot of places and so

00:42:09   by the time you know if you buy a new

00:42:10   phone now and you cheat charged it all

00:42:12   the time but that's how the battery

00:42:14   wears out you should probably be able to

00:42:16   get one might not be $30 anymore but

00:42:19   that's probably true oh and one more

00:42:21   thing on this pro clip thing I remember

00:42:23   when you mentioned your clip and people

00:42:25   sent in stuff I went to this site

00:42:26   because I was looking for similar clips

00:42:29   I think I just bought one for my wife

00:42:31   and I was wondering if they were better

00:42:32   ones and on the pro clip usa.com website

00:42:35   the image they have in the background at

00:42:38   the top of the page shows a mount that

00:42:41   goes into like the gap in the dashboard

00:42:44   between like the the top stuff and the

00:42:47   thing that has the vents it doesn't go

00:42:48   inside the vents like you were just

00:42:49   describing and like you know I have one

00:42:51   right now that goes inside the vents

00:42:52   that's usually difficult way to do it

00:42:53   you see that on the website it's like

00:42:55   good I do see what you mean mine is not

00:42:57   mine does not do that mine is mine

00:42:59   presses against the top and bottom inner

00:43:01   edge of the vent right and so when I saw

00:43:04   this I was like well forget that I'm not

00:43:05   jamming anything into the cracks in my

00:43:06   dashboard if it had just gotten into the

00:43:09   air vent I probably would have liked oh

00:43:10   well that's how they all work so it

00:43:12   would be fine

00:43:12   so that scared me away so I guess it

00:43:14   depends on your exact model of car but I

00:43:16   really don't want anything because once

00:43:18   you do that you know if you ever take

00:43:20   that out now you have giant gaps where

00:43:21   that thing had been wedged in for the

00:43:23   past six months or whatever we are

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00:45:18   Squarespace bloomberg reports that Apple

00:45:24   is planning to use its own chips and

00:45:26   Mac's starting in just a couple of years

00:45:28   and giving Intel the boot I feel like we

00:45:32   on this show have flirted with this

00:45:34   topic on and off pretty much since this

00:45:36   year the show started in 2013 so on the

00:45:40   one side I find this fascinating and I

00:45:42   feel like we should talk about it on the

00:45:44   other side I feel like we've we've been

00:45:45   around this this topic so many times I'm

00:45:48   not sure what else there is to say but

00:45:50   yeah Intel has not had the dramatic

00:45:53   improvements that they used to have

00:45:55   there what does a tick-tock cycle has

00:45:57   been slowing down and now they've

00:45:59   basically said yeah we're not going to

00:46:00   do that anymore so Apple may be taking

00:46:03   matters into their own hands when it

00:46:04   comes to CPUs and they may just start

00:46:08   putting those in computers rather than

00:46:09   just iPhones and fake computers I mean

00:46:13   iPads so what are our thoughts because

00:46:17   what we assume we don't know but we

00:46:19   assume these would be ARM processors

00:46:21   which is different than the Intel

00:46:22   processor in a Mac it's a different

00:46:24   instruction set which means things would

00:46:26   have to be you know all your apps and

00:46:27   the operating system would have to be

00:46:29   compiled again like there are many many

00:46:30   many things that fall out of this it

00:46:33   would basically be the PowerPC to Intel

00:46:34   transition all over again

00:46:35   how do we feel are we excited are we

00:46:38   bummed I mean let's start with Marco

00:46:40   what do you think I don't really know

00:46:43   what to think yet at a high level it

00:46:47   seems inevitable that if Apple wants to

00:46:51   keep maintaining the Mac you know

00:46:53   competitively and if they want to push

00:46:55   it forward and if basically if they're

00:46:57   gonna care about the Mac again this does

00:47:00   seem like an obvious direction to take

00:47:01   it and we have seen rumblings that they

00:47:04   are caring about the Mac again I mean

00:47:05   the iMac Pro I think is one of the

00:47:08   biggest ones like there's a lot of

00:47:09   things about the iMac Pro that they

00:47:11   didn't have to do but but they did it

00:47:13   anyway and and they made a really great

00:47:15   product and and so I'm I'm heartened to

00:47:19   see like they are actually investing you

00:47:22   know non-trivial into Mac hardware and

00:47:24   will I hope to see more of that as the

00:47:27   year goes on I hope to see fixed laptops

00:47:29   I hope to see the Mac Pro we'll see how

00:47:31   that all turns out but clearly they they

00:47:34   have they have had some kind of change

00:47:35   of heart or at least change of direction

00:47:37   with Mac hardware if they're gonna keep

00:47:39   doing stuff like that

00:47:40   this does seem like an obvious place to

00:47:42   go because Intel really is holding them

00:47:44   back in a few areas and I wouldn't say

00:47:46   all areas you know as some people have

00:47:48   pointed out we haven't seen what Apple's

00:47:51   chip design department can do for for

00:47:54   computing with like the Xeon in the iMac

00:47:57   Pro you know they could probably do a

00:47:59   pretty good job if I had to guess but we

00:48:01   don't know that yet

00:48:02   what we do know is that Apple can

00:48:04   definitely compete with Intel with their

00:48:06   chip designs at lower ends of the power

00:48:09   spectrum so that would be most important

00:48:11   in frankly the most commonly sold Mac's

00:48:15   small laptops like that's where this

00:48:17   makes a huge difference like if you can

00:48:19   actually have say something like the

00:48:21   size of a macbook 12-inch or if you can

00:48:25   have something like a real computer size

00:48:26   like a 13-inch you can get serious gains

00:48:29   and battery life and maybe even

00:48:31   performance at the same time by

00:48:34   switching to a modern Apple arm design

00:48:36   and these things probably so it does

00:48:39   seem like that's a really clear place to

00:48:41   go in addition Intel has been a pretty

00:48:44   crappy supplier to Apple I think in

00:48:46   recent years and not even yet

00:48:49   like over a long time now you know intel

00:48:52   has really had a lot of problems itself

00:48:53   a lot of problems too you know shipping

00:48:56   its ships on time getting its fabs going

00:48:58   and whatever it's needing to do a lot of

00:49:00   problems with performance per watt

00:49:02   compared to arm chips you know in a lot

00:49:04   of ways Intel is really not delivering

00:49:06   very well on supplying apple with what

00:49:09   it actually needs and and this isn't

00:49:12   that different from when IBM was not

00:49:15   delivering very well on PowerPC and

00:49:17   Apple made a switch you know in that

00:49:20   case to Intel because they were doing

00:49:21   great then but it wouldn't surprise me

00:49:24   at all if Apple decides to take this

00:49:25   kind of move as long as they care enough

00:49:27   about the Mac to to push this kind of

00:49:29   thing through it's a big job it's a

00:49:31   really big job it requires tons of major

00:49:36   and long-running changes it's going to

00:49:39   be a heck of a transition if it happens

00:49:41   it's gonna really you know need a lot of

00:49:44   work a lot of time it's gonna be a

00:49:46   little messy however I do think where

00:49:49   they would end up it could be really

00:49:51   nice even if it doesn't even go to the

00:49:53   whole line even even if it doesn't do

00:49:55   like the high end like the desktops in

00:49:56   the Zeon's even if it just stays in like

00:49:58   the smallest laptop line maybe even like

00:50:01   the 15-inch doesn't even have it but

00:50:02   maybe the 12 inch and 13 inch do okay it

00:50:06   probably Sartain 12 meter honestly that

00:50:08   would be really really competitive for

00:50:10   those products you get really good

00:50:11   battery life you get pretty competitive

00:50:13   performance and many of the apps that

00:50:16   people use you know first of all maybe

00:50:19   the apps people use are built in OS apps

00:50:21   that come with the system and so those

00:50:22   would all be ready you know on day one

00:50:24   probably and then you know a lot of apps

00:50:26   people use would be simple recompiles or

00:50:28   not that much work to to get them

00:50:30   updated for it or recompile for it so

00:50:33   like I think that could be a really

00:50:35   great direction for the products to take

00:50:37   the downside to this might where I'm

00:50:40   concerned and I did a little quick tweet

00:50:41   about this earlier the main reason I'm

00:50:43   concerned about this is that if this is

00:50:44   true which that's a big if I worry will

00:50:49   Apple in the near future or ever place

00:50:53   enough priority on mac OS to really make

00:50:57   this happen well on the software side

00:51:01   because ever since iOS came out Mac OS

00:51:03   has been really a distant second

00:51:05   priority they you know they have made no

00:51:07   efforts to hide that and I think it's

00:51:08   obvious to everybody and you could argue

00:51:10   that that should be how it is because

00:51:12   iOS devices sell so much more than Macs

00:51:14   and really are the bulk of the company's

00:51:15   income and everything so like Mac OS is

00:51:18   really not a priority for them and

00:51:21   hasn't been for a long time and what we

00:51:23   see every time they do try to update Mac

00:51:27   OS they seem to be getting Messier and

00:51:30   sloppier and introducing more and and

00:51:33   worse and more embarrassing bugs a lot

00:51:37   you know every time they rewrite a

00:51:38   subsystem it comes out buggier than the

00:51:40   one before it and maybe it might

00:51:43   eventually catch up but it usually takes

00:51:45   a few release this is at least there's a

00:51:48   lot of problems with Mac OS and it seems

00:51:50   like they're incapable of touching it

00:51:53   recently without breaking stuff and a

00:51:56   lot of times the stuff they break never

00:51:58   gets fixed so I'm concerned if they're

00:52:02   going to approach this kind of move to

00:52:05   arm like a whole architecture transition

00:52:07   if they're going to approach that with

00:52:09   the same level of frankly I don't know

00:52:14   if it's carelessness but at least they

00:52:16   are not giving it the resources that

00:52:17   they need to make quality so far if

00:52:19   they're gonna you know attack this

00:52:21   problem like that then they might just

00:52:24   break everything and make everything way

00:52:26   worse and maybe never fix it or fix it

00:52:29   very slowly or never fix certain parts

00:52:31   of it that's where I'm concerned is like

00:52:33   I really want the Mac platform to be

00:52:37   brought forward in big ways it needs it

00:52:40   however if it's going to do that with

00:52:43   the same amount of starved resources and

00:52:46   seeming disregard for quality and

00:52:48   exchange for ship dates that I don't

00:52:52   think is is beneficial to the platform

00:52:54   so that's my concern came back though

00:52:57   when do you kick this off with Casey the

00:52:59   fact that we've discussed this many

00:53:00   times in the past this is this is a bit

00:53:03   of inside baseball medic concern but I'm

00:53:06   always worried about like how much to

00:53:08   repeat something that we've said on a

00:53:11   past show because you

00:53:13   you can't assume that everyone listening

00:53:15   now is listening to all the dozens of

00:53:18   hours we have talked about the same

00:53:19   topic but on the other hand if you have

00:53:20   listened to them do you really want us

00:53:21   to hear this here I say the same things

00:53:23   again so on this topic I'm I'm looking

00:53:27   for two things I think Marco was at

00:53:29   least looking for one of these but one

00:53:31   is something new to say on the topic

00:53:33   which think Marco is found with is

00:53:35   concerned about that via the care and

00:53:37   attention that they've shown to Mac OS

00:53:38   being applied to a hardware transition

00:53:40   right which we haven't really talked

00:53:42   about that much in the past because I

00:53:43   think if you pass three times we talked

00:53:44   for this

00:53:45   we weren't collectively as disgruntled

00:53:47   about the quality of Mac OS right and

00:53:49   the second one is specifically this

00:53:50   story when stuff like this comes out I'm

00:53:52   looking for is there any new information

00:53:54   and the story like is that is there any

00:53:58   information period other than hey guess

00:54:00   what Apple could could transition Mac's

00:54:03   to a different processor that it makes

00:54:04   itself and in this story there isn't

00:54:09   really much new information except

00:54:12   perhaps some dates a whole lot of

00:54:16   hedging this this line from the article

00:54:18   is great I would call this comprehensive

00:54:20   but covering Apple could still

00:54:25   theoretically abandon or delay the

00:54:27   switch theoretically is the icing on the

00:54:29   cake there but it could still abandon or

00:54:31   delay it's like you're reading this

00:54:33   whole article let me tell you Apple's

00:54:34   gonna do this thing half way through the

00:54:36   Oracle says and by the way they might

00:54:37   not do this it's like all right we get

00:54:39   it you're covering yourself okay you can

00:54:41   say well we didn't say there were gonna

00:54:43   we just said they they're gonna but they

00:54:45   might not and then theoretically

00:54:47   abandoned or delay theoretically they

00:54:50   can abandon or delay it

00:54:51   there's no theory you don't need anyway

00:54:54   not a big fan of the article but as in

00:54:58   all these things set aside the article

00:55:00   and just take it as a data point as

00:55:01   another little pebble to the pile you

00:55:04   know maybe this pebble you know we'll

00:55:07   see like where there's smoke this fire

00:55:09   kind of as you see more and more stories

00:55:10   about a topic maybe you start to take it

00:55:11   start taking it more seriously than just

00:55:14   like when we've talked about in the past

00:55:15   it has just been sort of idle musing

00:55:17   like because it's an obvious thing like

00:55:19   Apple is really good at making and

00:55:21   getting better making ARM processors

00:55:24   and Apple likes to control this stuff

00:55:25   and apples trying to make him more and

00:55:27   more of the stuff themselves or design

00:55:29   more more than stuff themselves and have

00:55:30   it fab and Intel's befall on behind

00:55:32   likes lots of reasons to talk about this

00:55:34   so I don't want to rehash all the things

00:55:38   we've discussed about in the past but I

00:55:42   mean I kinda actually I kind of do but I

00:55:45   don't

00:55:46   I want everyone who's listening now to

00:55:48   know all the hours of discussion we had

00:55:50   about this because I want us all to get

00:55:51   credit for having the foresight and

00:55:53   wisdom to have discussed this issues

00:55:54   well in the past but I don't want to

00:55:56   have to repeat them for everybody now

00:55:57   the only one I will repeat explicitly is

00:56:01   one of the things that is in tension

00:56:03   about this topic is the idea of Apple

00:56:08   spending the money that would be

00:56:10   required to make an ARM chip that is

00:56:12   essentially useless for iOS devices

00:56:15   right to make an ARM chip for the Mac

00:56:17   Pro for instance right 150 watt Mac Pro

00:56:21   caliber chip to make something like that

00:56:24   to design it is a lot of work and you

00:56:28   can reuse a lot of the work you did for

00:56:30   you the lesser chips that are in phones

00:56:31   and iPads like to use the cores and

00:56:33   assemble them or whatever but a lot of

00:56:35   the stuff you do will only be for that

00:56:37   Mac Pro like you won't be able to use

00:56:40   that chip anywhere else because nothing

00:56:42   else has that that power envelope and in

00:56:45   the past when we've talked about this

00:56:47   the question was always alright well so

00:56:50   Apple can reuse a lot of the chips

00:56:52   directly like in the mac books and stuff

00:56:53   but when it comes to the Mac Pro if

00:56:55   they're going to transition the whole

00:56:55   line they have to make that chip

00:56:57   themselves from scratch there is no you

00:56:59   know and and that's a lot of money to

00:57:01   invest does Apple really want to invest

00:57:03   that amount of money solely in the Mac

00:57:06   as Margaret Cho said and you know in our

00:57:08   in our modern iMac Pro having error we

00:57:10   could say hey they actually spent a lot

00:57:12   of money money they didn't necessarily

00:57:13   have to spend reusing and adapting

00:57:17   technology from iOS things in an

00:57:20   application that basically is only

00:57:22   useful in the iMac Pro like that t2 chip

00:57:25   is probably not going into an iPad

00:57:27   anytime soon it's probably not even

00:57:28   going into a laptop right is that you

00:57:31   know is that e1 in there we'll see but

00:57:33   they spent a lot of time and money

00:57:35   building a Mac Pro

00:57:37   made a good product out of it and like

00:57:39   the touch bar before it as much as we

00:57:40   may or may not like it it shows a

00:57:42   willingness to invest in Mac hardware

00:57:43   that is probably out of proportion

00:57:46   financially to how much money the Mac

00:57:49   brings in because as we've pointed out

00:57:51   in Apple now seems to agree the Mac's

00:57:54   importance is also out of proportion to

00:57:56   the amount of money it brings in its

00:57:57   importance to the overall Apple platform

00:58:00   and not just because you develop iOS

00:58:01   apps for but that's part of it but Apple

00:58:03   seems to be on the same page with with

00:58:06   all of us now about you know Pro Mac

00:58:10   users are an important constituency they

00:58:12   had that roundtable a year or so ago or

00:58:14   whatever and Apple said they agreed and

00:58:17   it's made us all happy for a long time

00:58:18   when we're patiently waiting for the

00:58:20   fruits of that labor the iMac Pro is one

00:58:22   of the fruits of that labor and it's

00:58:23   good right it came out good right so

00:58:25   we're all enthusiastic about that but

00:58:27   that makes it more and more likely that

00:58:31   they would be willing to spend the money

00:58:33   they would need to spend to make a bunch

00:58:35   of arm CPUs reusing cores and other

00:58:38   technology and stuff from elsewhere but

00:58:41   in it but in a big giant high-power blob

00:58:44   that is not useful anywhere except for

00:58:45   Mac's so this story is another pebble on

00:58:49   the pile the iMac Pro and that round

00:58:51   table some more pebbles so it's starting

00:58:55   to look more and more likely things

00:58:57   against it new tried to come up with

00:59:00   some a new angle on us and the new angle

00:59:02   that I have not against this theory but

00:59:04   because doesn't mean they're not going

00:59:05   to do it but something that if they did

00:59:07   do it would be a disadvantage to Mac

00:59:11   users it would be a step down from where

00:59:13   they are today

00:59:14   is that none of the stories I've seen

00:59:18   rumors or whatever have suggested that

00:59:20   what Apple would actually be doing is

00:59:23   making a new line of CPUs that they

00:59:25   would use in Macs and that they would

00:59:28   also sell to the whole rest of the

00:59:30   industry I haven't even seen that

00:59:32   suggested like no one no one even dare

00:59:34   speculate about that let alone say that

00:59:36   they think it's a thing that I was going

00:59:37   to do so we always just assume yeah

00:59:39   Apple would make its own CPUs because

00:59:41   they like to make their own whatever's

00:59:42   and they make their own a series system

00:59:44   out of chips and then they make their

00:59:46   own Wi-Fi you know why would

00:59:48   the W one ship and they make they make

00:59:50   all sorts of stuff right not make but

00:59:52   you know design and have someone fit for

00:59:53   them and they don't sell them to the

00:59:55   rest the industry yeah they license the

00:59:57   W one for the purposes of referrals and

00:59:58   stuff like that but