The Accidental Tech Podcast

02:00:00 ◼   ► source of excitement for you like like

02:00:02 ◼   ► what like when I kind of fell out of

02:00:04 ◼   ► love with BMW that was easy for me

02:00:05 ◼   ► because now I'm now I'm a big fan of

02:00:08 ◼   ► Tesla and so like it just kind of got

02:00:09 ◼   ► replaced the reason the Apple stuff bugs

02:00:12 ◼   ► me so much is that like I haven't

02:00:13 ◼   ► replaced that yet in my life and I don't

02:00:15 ◼   ► really know what will replace it

02:00:17 ◼   ► replaced it with video games yeah you

02:00:21 ◼   ► love video games now more than you have

02:00:23 ◼   ► in a long time that's replacing your

02:00:24 ◼   ► Apple of I mean I love yeah I love a few

02:00:26 ◼   ► video games I would hardly call it like

02:00:30 ◼   ► a cat you just said that this which is

02:00:31 ◼   ► like the best gaming thing you've had

02:00:33 ◼   ► since like your childhood yes you know

02:00:35 ◼   ► Sega so I think that's that's pretty

02:00:37 ◼   ► high praise and the grand scheme of

02:00:39 ◼   ► things that you have loved in your life

02:00:41 ◼   ► and that video games may say if the next

02:00:43 ◼   ► Nintendo thing is like that doesn't

02:00:44 ◼   ► appeal to you or doesn't have good games

02:00:46 ◼   ► and then you'll be all excited about

02:00:47 ◼   ► your new Jaguar ipace I would probably

02:00:51 ◼   ► like no matter how good or appealing it

02:00:53 ◼   ► was I don't think I would ever actually

02:00:55 ◼   ► buy a car from that brand because I just

02:00:58 ◼   ► never want to have to say it to people

02:00:59 ◼   ► you know you don't have to say Jaguar

02:01:02 ◼   ► you can just say Jaguar you can say

02:01:03 ◼   ► Jaguar like Steve Jobs oh god no I mean

02:01:05 ◼   ► it but the problem is like no matter at

02:01:06 ◼   ► first of all it's kind of like like a

02:01:09 ◼   ► brand right no it's I mean they both are

02:01:17 ◼   ► to some degree like it is it is it is

02:01:19 ◼   ► snootier sounding but I think if you had

02:01:23 ◼   ► to picture the kind of person who drives

02:01:24 ◼   ► a Jaguar and the kind of person who

02:01:25 ◼   ► drives a BMW and you're gonna sign

02:01:27 ◼   ► you're gonna put a label underneath one

02:01:29 ◼   ► of them it's definitely going either

02:01:32 ◼   ► brand if you if somebody asks you like

02:01:35 ◼   ► out like it out loud in a roomful of

02:01:38 ◼   ► other people who are being kind of quiet

02:01:39 ◼   ► hey what brand is your car like if you

02:01:41 ◼   ► have a BMW you you want to say that a

02:01:43 ◼   ► little bit quietly if I had a Jag I'd be

02:01:46 ◼   ► I'd like I would just be like I don't

02:01:47 ◼   ► have a car like I think the Jaguar

02:01:54 ◼   ► product of managers you know marketing

02:01:57 ◼   ► managers would love to hear you say that

02:01:58 ◼   ► because that's the image they want they

02:01:59 ◼   ► want it to be like snooty and

02:02:01 ◼   ► highfalutin but realistically speaking

02:02:02 ◼   ► these days I don't think it is I think

02:02:04 ◼   ► jag would just love to be included in

02:02:06 ◼   ► the same buying decision it's Lexus let

02:02:07 ◼   ► alone BMW Mercedes oh yeah they're

02:02:09 ◼   ► totally irrelevant but the other factor

02:02:11 ◼   ► is like I just don't want to hear

02:02:13 ◼   ► everyone

02:02:13 ◼   ► me how to pronounce it well then never

02:02:16 ◼   ► get a Porsche either I was about I was

02:02:19 ◼   ► thinking the same thing I said I'm like

02:02:20 ◼   ► you know yeah that would also apply to

02:02:21 ◼   ► that brand which I'm also not even try

02:02:23 ◼   ► to say here because I'm not gonna say it

02:02:24 ◼   ► right now I don't care

02:02:25 ◼   ► it's anyway I don't want a I don't want

02:02:29 ◼   ► a stinger but yeah I think you hit the

02:02:30 ◼   ► nail on the head Marco about part of the

02:02:33 ◼   ► reason why I'm bummed about BMW not

02:02:35 ◼   ► really revving my engine anymore is that

02:02:39 ◼   ► I haven't figured out what's replaced

02:02:41 ◼   ► replacing it like there's a part of me

02:02:44 ◼   ► that's enthusiastic about getting a

02:02:46 ◼   ► Wrangler and I'm not trying to open that

02:02:46 ◼   ► can of worms but I I don't know that

02:02:49 ◼   ► that's really gonna replace that love

02:02:50 ◼   ► because there was a stretch of time

02:02:52 ◼   ► that every time I got in my car I was

02:02:55 ◼   ► just thrilled and excited to be sitting

02:02:57 ◼   ► in that chair and now it's it's not an

02:03:00 ◼   ► appliance but it's closer to an

02:03:04 ◼   ► appliance than then something that gives

02:03:06 ◼   ► me pleasure and that's really

02:03:08 ◼   ► unfortunate and I don't think I don't

02:03:11 ◼   ► think I would view a Jeep in quite the

02:03:15 ◼   ► same way as I did the BMW circa 2013

02:03:17 ◼   ► that just bums me out like I wish I had

02:03:20 ◼   ► something to replace that that kind of

02:03:21 ◼   ► joy in my life and and and you know

02:03:25 ◼   ► maybe I will but not to maybe it'll be

02:03:27 ◼   ► your family

02:03:27 ◼   ► nah no what can replace this joy says

02:03:33 ◼   ► the person who just had a new child come

02:03:37 ◼   ► on I gotta make me sound like such a

02:03:39 ◼   ► jerk speaking of which like back in

02:03:41 ◼   ► build and analyze I forget like when in

02:03:44 ◼   ► the series it was but sometime during

02:03:45 ◼   ► build and analyze I was talking back

02:03:47 ◼   ► then about like you know possibly that

02:03:50 ◼   ► was when I was like waffling over like

02:03:51 ◼   ► what car to get and like after that

02:03:54 ◼   ► after the first BMW I was what think

02:03:56 ◼   ► about something fast and and Dan was

02:03:59 ◼   ► talking about how like he used to care

02:04:01 ◼   ► about fast cars and now he just got him

02:04:04 ◼   ► he just got minivans and he was totally

02:04:06 ◼   ► fun and he just kind of stopped caring

02:04:08 ◼   ► about driving fast that's a lie because

02:04:10 ◼   ► he eventually got like an Audi yeah

02:04:12 ◼   ► there was an Audi so but but like but

02:04:14 ◼   ► that's that like that sounded to me like

02:04:16 ◼   ► it like that would never happen to me I

02:04:18 ◼   ► could not fathom that that ever happened

02:04:21 ◼   ► to me I would always care you know as

02:04:22 ◼   ► much as I did then and I did care for a

02:04:25 ◼   ► while like I went through some nice

02:04:27 ◼   ► cars and my current car is fast but I I

02:04:31 ◼   ► really do feel myself carrying a lot

02:04:33 ◼   ► less over time like and like I'm not

02:04:35 ◼   ► really like you know like taking that

02:04:38 ◼   ► taking a little like a little turn

02:04:40 ◼   ► that's down at the bottom of my street

02:04:41 ◼   ► where I can kick it out a little bit

02:04:42 ◼   ► when there's leaves down like I don't do

02:04:44 ◼   ► that anymore like there's certain like

02:04:46 ◼   ► you know highway ramp so I could go

02:04:48 ◼   ► super fast before and I just kind of

02:04:50 ◼   ► don't do that anymore either like I have

02:04:51 ◼   ► even just like over the last like year

02:04:53 ◼   ► I've felt myself like really chilling

02:04:55 ◼   ► out a lot in that way where I like even

02:04:58 ◼   ► even who there I was thinking like maybe

02:05:00 ◼   ► on the next one I won't mind so much

02:05:02 ◼   ► that now I'm now forced to get the smart

02:05:04 ◼   ► air suspension which softens the ride

02:05:05 ◼   ► that can sound kind of nice like I

02:05:08 ◼   ► realize after I was thinking that I'm

02:05:09 ◼   ► like oh my god Who am I

02:05:10 ◼   ► but like you're Mercedes here we come

02:05:14 ◼   ► yeah but like but I realizing like like

02:05:17 ◼   ► you know my priorities have changed too

02:05:18 ◼   ► like if I was buying a new car today I

02:05:20 ◼   ► would still get a Tesla and I would

02:05:22 ◼   ► still get this the you know a fast model

02:05:24 ◼   ► but it's because I would want the the

02:05:27 ◼   ► biggest range which is which is not the

02:05:30 ◼   ► fastest model which is the decision I

02:05:33 ◼   ► made with this one and I would make the

02:05:35 ◼   ► exact same decision again like the speed

02:05:36 ◼   ► of it is way less important to me than

02:05:38 ◼   ► the range of it I like that it's fast I

02:05:40 ◼   ► have fun with the speed sometimes but

02:05:43 ◼   ► it's way less often that that's relevant

02:05:45 ◼   ► to me than it used to be and you know

02:05:47 ◼   ► for UKC like you know as we've mentioned

02:05:49 ◼   ► in the past like you know being a car

02:05:51 ◼   ► enthusiast is so much a part of your

02:05:53 ◼   ► identity that you know and it need not

02:05:55 ◼   ► be you know that's that's an option that

02:05:57 ◼   ► you have yeah but but you know you you

02:06:00 ◼   ► still you you have a lot of that love

02:06:02 ◼   ► and you and some degree you probably

02:06:04 ◼   ► always will but it's okay if if it comes

02:06:09 ◼   ► to this if you realize this in your you

02:06:11 ◼   ► know in introspection

02:06:13 ◼   ► it's okay for your priorities to change

02:06:16 ◼   ► or for like the the the significance

02:06:20 ◼   ► that you apply to certain factors to be

02:06:24 ◼   ► rearranged or to shift around and so

02:06:27 ◼   ► like it's like you know you said like

02:06:28 ◼   ► you know used to be you know you should

02:06:30 ◼   ► be really like you know thrilled getting

02:06:32 ◼   ► in your car and now it's more of a

02:06:33 ◼   ► function and part of that is because

02:06:35 ◼   ► you're you know you've had this car for

02:06:36 ◼   ► a while so it's no longer as novel part

02:06:38 ◼   ► of that is you kind of hate this car

02:06:40 ◼   ► because

02:06:40 ◼   ► cost you but you know par that's also

02:06:44 ◼   ► like you are growing up you know you

02:06:47 ◼   ► your your but what six seven years older

02:06:49 ◼   ► now them then when you growing up he's

02:06:52 ◼   ► in his mid-30s he's getting old you stop

02:06:54 ◼   ► growing up we're always growing up you

02:06:56 ◼   ► know you start getting older certain

02:06:59 ◼   ► morning I think you okay yeah we are

02:07:01 ◼   ► continuing to get old some of us older

02:07:03 ◼   ► the busy living or get busy dying

02:07:04 ◼   ► finally something you both get reference

02:07:07 ◼   ► technology whatever it is like you know

02:07:09 ◼   ► it's okay to change over time and to

02:07:12 ◼   ► recognize that's what's happening and I

02:07:14 ◼   ► agree with you the thing is I don't feel

02:07:17 ◼   ► like I'm that different I agree that I

02:07:20 ◼   ► am slightly different and the joy I get

02:07:22 ◼   ► from Aaron's car is indication to me

02:07:25 ◼   ► that I am feeling differently because

02:07:27 ◼   ► Aaron's car feels to me anyway very

02:07:31 ◼   ► cushy it has a lot of those techno bits

02:07:33 ◼   ► that like your car has not exactly the

02:07:35 ◼   ► same but like you know there's an app

02:07:37 ◼   ► where I can start it remotely and I know

02:07:39 ◼   ► you're like haha what's an engine but

02:07:40 ◼   ► you get what I'm driving at and and I

02:07:43 ◼   ► get a lot of pleasure from Aaron's car

02:07:45 ◼   ► despite the fact that it's big it's slow

02:07:48 ◼   ► it according to Jon tips over if you

02:07:51 ◼   ► steer more than you know five degrees

02:07:53 ◼   ► laterally but but it's in every way it's

02:07:57 ◼   ► wrong from the list of things that Casey

02:08:01 ◼   ► enjoys but I do like it and I think the

02:08:03 ◼   ► thing that that the crisis I'm having is

02:08:06 ◼   ► that I don't feel like I'm that

02:08:08 ◼   ► different like well all I really want in

02:08:10 ◼   ► the world is somebody that is not BMW to

02:08:14 ◼   ► make me either a 340 sedan or an m3 and

02:08:18 ◼   ► I don't think that really exists and

02:08:22 ◼   ► there was a report I'm not gonna be able

02:08:23 ◼   ► to find the link but a friend of mine

02:08:26 ◼   ► Brad sent me a report some rumors that

02:08:29 ◼   ► the 3-series is going to lose the stick

02:08:31 ◼   ► in the next generation which isn't

02:08:34 ◼   ► particularly surprising but is kind of

02:08:36 ◼   ► devastating and I know I need to just

02:08:38 ◼   ► wake up and smell reality that that the

02:08:39 ◼   ► three pedal cars are not long for this

02:08:41 ◼   ► world

02:08:42 ◼   ► but I feel like I'm being this is a lot

02:08:44 ◼   ► of words to say I feel like I'm being

02:08:45 ◼   ► abandoned and BMW is supposed to help me

02:08:48 ◼   ► and it sounds like they're abandoning me

02:08:51 ◼   ► and either way

02:08:53 ◼   ► grumpy about the fact that this cars

02:08:54 ◼   ► cost me a bazillion dollars so I I just

02:08:57 ◼   ► I feel like I'm a ronin right like I'm a

02:08:59 ◼   ► man without a master now and and that

02:09:01 ◼   ► bums me out because I want to be able to

02:09:03 ◼   ► to find a car that gives me that joy

02:09:06 ◼   ► again and you know the the Julia did

02:09:08 ◼   ► give me a lot of that joy and maybe I

02:09:11 ◼   ► would feel slightly differently about it

02:09:12 ◼   ► if there was literally no other options

02:09:15 ◼   ► like if there were no three pedal cars

02:09:17 ◼   ► but you know I mean like I feel like

02:09:19 ◼   ► I've been I've been left wanting in and

02:09:23 ◼   ► that that kind of bums me out cuz I feel

02:09:25 ◼   ► like I'm the same as I've always been

02:09:27 ◼   ► older and maybe wiser and certainly

02:09:30 ◼   ► slower but it's I at least older at

02:09:34 ◼   ► least older but but you know what I mean

02:09:36 ◼   ► like I just I feel like nothing is

02:09:37 ◼   ► filling that void even though I'm ready

02:09:39 ◼   ► for something to fill that void

02:09:39 ◼   ► for something to fill that void

01:00:00 ◼   ► if the first version has to be assembled

01:00:01 ◼   ► partially out of parts that come in the

01:00:03 ◼   ► industry that's fine but eventually we

01:00:06 ◼   ► like to bring that in-house because we

01:00:07 ◼   ► feel like we can do it better we know

01:00:08 ◼   ► exactly what we want for the watch we

01:00:09 ◼   ► know exactly what we want for our phones

01:00:11 ◼   ► I don't want to have to convince some

01:00:13 ◼   ► other company to make this product for

01:00:14 ◼   ► me and in fact we have some better ideas

01:00:16 ◼   ► about how it might be dump is behind all

01:00:18 ◼   ► the best people in this industry because

01:00:18 ◼   ► we have too much money right and that is

01:00:22 ◼   ► way more aggressive than just shopping

01:00:24 ◼   ► among like oh we're gonna use the Sony

01:00:26 ◼   ► panel in this display or we're gonna use

01:00:27 ◼   ► Tran Tran so the best CRTs and you know

01:00:29 ◼   ► like it's way more aggressive to say

01:00:31 ◼   ► we're gonna do it ourselves because it's

01:00:35 ◼   ► a competitive advantage not to have to

01:00:37 ◼   ► wait for the rest of the industry to do

01:00:38 ◼   ► anything and in the case of these

01:00:40 ◼   ► screens even if you're in a situation

01:00:42 ◼   ► where one company makes the best screens

01:00:44 ◼   ► and Apple wants the best screens and

01:00:46 ◼   ► they feel bad getting a one supplier I

01:00:47 ◼   ► think apples view on it aside from that

01:00:49 ◼   ► we just don't like giving money to

01:00:50 ◼   ► Samsung as a single suppliers to say we

01:00:53 ◼   ► think we can do that better because we

01:00:54 ◼   ► know exactly what we want and it's a

01:00:55 ◼   ► pain to have to tell Samsung exactly

01:00:57 ◼   ► what we want and get them to build the

01:00:58 ◼   ► thing that we want and go through all

01:00:59 ◼   ► that thing we know what we want why

01:01:02 ◼   ► don't we just do it ourselves and that's

01:01:06 ◼   ► what they've been doing with lots of

01:01:07 ◼   ► components if they have any problems

01:01:08 ◼   ► with any kind of supplier like Qualcomm

01:01:10 ◼   ► being annoying and about you know

01:01:12 ◼   ► charging them lots of money or them not

01:01:14 ◼   ► having lots of alternatives and trying

01:01:16 ◼   ► to get Intel to build radio chips and

01:01:17 ◼   ► stuff in a venture they say you know

01:01:18 ◼   ► what I'm tired of this we have good

01:01:20 ◼   ► engineers we know how to build things

01:01:22 ◼   ► why don't we build the radio chips and

01:01:23 ◼   ► not build so much as design and have

01:01:26 ◼   ► manufactured for us the last bastion of

01:01:29 ◼   ► that is manufacturing we're thus far

01:01:31 ◼   ► Apple has been happy to say

01:01:34 ◼   ► manufacturers compete amongst yourselves

01:01:36 ◼   ► and we will give you CPU fab our design

01:01:39 ◼   ► that you will fab for us and we will

01:01:41 ◼   ► give you manufacturing thing our case

01:01:44 ◼   ► design that you will machine that of

01:01:45 ◼   ► aluminum for us and we will help you buy

01:01:47 ◼   ► the machines for it and we'll help you

01:01:48 ◼   ► work on the techniques to use those

01:01:49 ◼   ► machines and we'll do all this stuff but

01:01:51 ◼   ► in the end Apple doesn't own the

01:01:53 ◼   ► factories Apple does not own a silicon

01:01:55 ◼   ► CPU fab it still allows other companies

01:01:58 ◼   ► to do that for it so it hasn't gotten to

01:02:00 ◼   ► the point where we say you know what I'm

01:02:01 ◼   ► tired of waiting for you know Taiwan

01:02:03 ◼   ► Semiconductor to come up with a new fab

01:02:05 ◼   ► let's make our own fab because that

01:02:06 ◼   ► starts to get you know a couple billion

01:02:07 ◼   ► here capability in there so you're

01:02:08 ◼   ► talking real money so so far they've

01:02:10 ◼   ► been avoiding that but

01:02:12 ◼   ► the modern Apple I think is more

01:02:15 ◼   ► aggressive than any other Apple has been

01:02:16 ◼   ► in their drive to get a real competitive

01:02:21 ◼   ► edge in the market by saying we'll do it

01:02:26 ◼   ► ourselves and having the confidence that

01:02:28 ◼   ► they'll be able to be able to do it

01:02:29 ◼   ► better than anyone else which is

01:02:30 ◼   ► exciting from a technology perspective

01:02:32 ◼   ► to see you know that's what we always

01:02:35 ◼   ► want Apple to although it may seem

01:02:37 ◼   ► exciting when Apple is able to

01:02:38 ◼   ► synthesize from the parts that are

01:02:40 ◼   ► available to almost anybody or most

01:02:42 ◼   ► people you know plus or minus one or two

01:02:43 ◼   ► parts to make a great product at it it's

01:02:45 ◼   ► even more exciting I guess in the iPhone

01:02:48 ◼   ► age to see them make phones that are

01:02:50 ◼   ► just leaps and bounds better in certain

01:02:53 ◼   ► areas than other phones for reasons that

01:02:57 ◼   ► are directly traceable to Apple strategy

01:02:59 ◼   ► to say bring the system out of chips in

01:03:01 ◼   ► house that's why their system on chips

01:03:03 ◼   ► are so much better than everybody else's

01:03:04 ◼   ► if they were still sitting around they

01:03:05 ◼   ► were using the same chips as Android

01:03:07 ◼   ► phones though the I think the phone

01:03:10 ◼   ► landscape would look very different

01:03:11 ◼   ► Apple wouldn't be able to do half the

01:03:12 ◼   ► things that it does because it would be

01:03:14 ◼   ► working with CPUs that are not now I'm

01:03:16 ◼   ► gonna say that are worse or slower which

01:03:18 ◼   ► I'm in case they are but that simply are

01:03:19 ◼   ► not tailored to the set of features that

01:03:21 ◼   ► Apple wants it picks the exact number of

01:03:23 ◼   ► cores the exact number of amount of

01:03:25 ◼   ► cache right the the you know the exact

01:03:28 ◼   ► layout so they can put all their

01:03:29 ◼   ► different you know they know exactly

01:03:30 ◼   ► what they want for like the iPhone tend

01:03:32 ◼   ► to do face ID if they had to adapt some

01:03:34 ◼   ► weird you know Snapdragon processor that

01:03:36 ◼   ► has way more cores and they want but not

01:03:38 ◼   ► enough of something else that they want

01:03:39 ◼   ► we'd still be waiting for for a face ID

01:03:42 ◼   ► so I don't know I know I'm going with

01:03:44 ◼   ► this except to say that I think that

01:03:46 ◼   ► this aspect of Apple the technological

01:03:49 ◼   ► aggression is actually I think one of

01:03:52 ◼   ► the most interesting aspects of the

01:03:53 ◼   ► company today and probably

01:03:54 ◼   ► underappreciated by you know by anybody

01:03:58 ◼   ► who doesn't fall Apple really closely

01:03:59 ◼   ► doesn't really care what's in their

01:04:00 ◼   ► products but I find it exciting

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01:05:40 ◼   ► show all right let's move on to ask ATP

01:05:46 ◼   ► Simon edge Singh says hey what's the

01:05:50 ◼   ► deal with the bits that were once used

01:05:52 ◼   ► as an important spec for gaming consoles

01:05:54 ◼   ► how many bits does a modern console have

01:05:56 ◼   ► and why's it no longer used in marketing

01:05:57 ◼   ► and so as soon as I read this I thought

01:05:59 ◼   ► back to the days of the Nintendo 64

01:06:01 ◼   ► which everyone knew was 64-bit because

01:06:04 ◼   ► it was right there in the name and oh

01:06:05 ◼   ► man was that thing way cooler than any

01:06:08 ◼   ► other modern console or so I thought

01:06:10 ◼   ► when I was 10 or whatever so John is the

01:06:13 ◼   ► chief gamer of the three of us can you

01:06:16 ◼   ► explain to me what's the deal with these

01:06:17 ◼   ► bits and why are they no longer used in

01:06:19 ◼   ► marketing well marketing has moved

01:06:20 ◼   ► entirely on to blast proccesing as a all

01:06:25 ◼   ► right so the bits thing like first I

01:06:28 ◼   ► read this question I'm like is that a

01:06:30 ◼   ► thing that people really wonder about

01:06:31 ◼   ► like our consoles still marketed with

01:06:34 ◼   ► bits and I think the person who's asking

01:06:36 ◼   ► this must have lived through the era

01:06:37 ◼   ► when that was

01:06:38 ◼   ► these days I haven't seen like the the

01:06:41 ◼   ► ps3 or ps4 are you the ps2 for that

01:06:43 ◼   ► matter marketing with bits like its it's

01:06:45 ◼   ► a thing that is that has passed us by

01:06:46 ◼   ► for for good reasons but back when it

01:06:50 ◼   ► was used as the marketing turn ascribing

01:06:54 ◼   ► a number of bits to a CPU like oh this

01:06:57 ◼   ► is a 16-bit CPU this is 32-bit CPU this

01:06:59 ◼   ► is a 64-bit CPU there's no hard and fast

01:07:02 ◼   ► rules as with most things and

01:07:04 ◼   ► marketing's and when you can say

01:07:05 ◼   ► something like that but in general the

01:07:07 ◼   ► number of bits tended to be applicable

01:07:11 ◼   ► because certain things have the same

01:07:14 ◼   ► number of bits so the you know the

01:07:17 ◼   ► integer registers the place where you

01:07:20 ◼   ► store a number would have 16 bits and

01:07:22 ◼   ► the address but bus would be 16 bits

01:07:25 ◼   ► wide which they controlled how much RAM

01:07:27 ◼   ► you could address and you'd call that

01:07:29 ◼   ► processor a 16 bit processor didn't have

01:07:32 ◼   ► to be the case for example there are

01:07:35 ◼   ► many quote-unquote 32-bit processors

01:07:38 ◼   ► that shipped with hardware wise

01:07:41 ◼   ► physically speaking a 24 bit memory bus

01:07:43 ◼   ► and thinking of the original Macintosh

01:07:45 ◼   ► and many after that you'd still call it

01:07:47 ◼   ► a 32 bit processor though because the

01:07:49 ◼   ► integer registers for 32 bits wide and

01:07:51 ◼   ► even on a quote-unquote 32 bit processor

01:07:53 ◼   ► the floating-point registers might have

01:07:55 ◼   ► been 64 bits wide why is that not a 64

01:07:57 ◼   ► bit processor and what if the memory bus

01:07:59 ◼   ► is wider than the integers and what if

01:08:00 ◼   ► the integer is wider than the memory bus

01:08:01 ◼   ► and like so there is no hard and fast

01:08:03 ◼   ► rule but in general because usually

01:08:05 ◼   ► either the memory bus or the integer

01:08:07 ◼   ► register width or both were on this

01:08:09 ◼   ► number and because there was a

01:08:11 ◼   ► progression because it's more expensive

01:08:12 ◼   ► especially in the early days to make

01:08:14 ◼   ► wider buses to make larger registers

01:08:17 ◼   ► right that each leap like now we can

01:08:21 ◼   ► make the registers 32 bits each leap was

01:08:23 ◼   ► met with a marketing push to say you

01:08:25 ◼   ► know the 386 is the 32-bit processor and

01:08:28 ◼   ► importantly in terms of representable

01:08:31 ◼   ► numbers for integers 64-bit integers and

01:08:34 ◼   ► way before you want them to like 65535

01:08:38 ◼   ► right 32-bit integers ended a pretty

01:08:40 ◼   ► high number that you feel like I can do

01:08:42 ◼   ► a lot more with four billion oh yeah

01:08:44 ◼   ► there's a lot more things I can count

01:08:45 ◼   ► with precision from you know with the

01:08:49 ◼   ► four billion

01:08:50 ◼   ► item so I can count where's 65,000 I can

01:08:54 ◼   ► think of lots of scenarios where I might

01:08:55 ◼   ► need to bend I'm bigger than that so

01:08:58 ◼   ► once we cross 32 bits we're and same

01:09:00 ◼   ► thing for memory addressing although in

01:09:02 ◼   ► the beginning there was no computer no

01:09:04 ◼   ► personal computer could fill up all the

01:09:06 ◼   ► third qubits that memory bus so

01:09:07 ◼   ► eventually we got there once you cross

01:09:10 ◼   ► 32 you have a lot more Headroom so 8-bit

01:09:12 ◼   ► and 16-bit it's like lots of problems

01:09:14 ◼   ► where this is annoying and flowing port

01:09:16 ◼   ► doesn't help you entirely because of

01:09:17 ◼   ► precision and all that stuff

01:09:18 ◼   ► 32 bits so I can run this for a while

01:09:20 ◼   ► and we did we ran on quote-unquote

01:09:22 ◼   ► 32-bit processors for a long time till

01:09:24 ◼   ► we eventually got to the point where you

01:09:27 ◼   ► could fill a PC with more RAM that could

01:09:29 ◼   ► be addressed with 32 bits and then we

01:09:30 ◼   ► needed to go to 64 but that took a

01:09:31 ◼   ► really long time now our phones are

01:09:33 ◼   ► freaking 64-bit which is amazing if you

01:09:35 ◼   ► live for the era where you had to

01:09:36 ◼   ► progress you're 16 and 32 and so on and

01:09:38 ◼   ► so forth game consoles same deal their

01:09:40 ◼   ► computers they have memory buses usually

01:09:42 ◼   ► they use cheaper stuff because they cost

01:09:44 ◼   ► less money than a PC so when pcs were

01:09:46 ◼   ► using 32-bit processors game consoles

01:09:48 ◼   ► maybe a eight or 16-bit processors just

01:09:50 ◼   ► because they had to cost so much less

01:09:52 ◼   ► money and it costs less money to make

01:09:53 ◼   ► you know smaller chips in surface area

01:09:57 ◼   ► and the more lanes you have for your

01:09:59 ◼   ► address buses everywhere and though the

01:10:01 ◼   ► wider your interest registers and all

01:10:02 ◼   ► that of stuff the bigger there so once

01:10:06 ◼   ► consoles like so 16-bit was turbo

01:10:08 ◼   ► graphics Christine SNES Genesis Sega

01:10:14 ◼   ► Master System was 8-bit right yeah

01:10:16 ◼   ► anyway you can look on Wikipedia what

01:10:18 ◼   ► the bits were but so there was there was

01:10:20 ◼   ► eight bit gaming consoles two 16-bit

01:10:22 ◼   ► once we got to 32 around the era

01:10:24 ◼   ► surprisingly of the Nintendo 64 we got

01:10:26 ◼   ► the 32 PlayStation was 32 entender 64

01:10:31 ◼   ► was arguably not as 64 e as they made it

01:10:34 ◼   ► out to be okay why do you say that I

01:10:38 ◼   ► don't think every like it didn't I have

01:10:40 ◼   ► to look up him what computer but I don't

01:10:42 ◼   ► I don't think the the memory bus and

01:10:43 ◼   ► he's more for example or 64 bits what

01:10:45 ◼   ► yeah I think you're right there were

01:10:46 ◼   ► like parts of it that were 64 bit but

01:10:48 ◼   ► not like it was arguable because like

01:10:50 ◼   ► because why would you make the memory

01:10:51 ◼   ► about 64 bits why I have no idea I'm

01:10:53 ◼   ► just pulling this off the top of my head

01:10:55 ◼   ► but seriously there's no way in hell the

01:10:56 ◼   ► physically speaking they have a 64-bit

01:10:58 ◼   ► memory bus and something that had like 2

01:11:00 ◼   ► megabytes of RAM like it doesn't make

01:11:01 ◼   ► any sense right you need 4 gigs to

01:11:04 ◼   ► see the addressability of 32 minutes and

01:11:06 ◼   ► if they did it must have only been

01:11:08 ◼   ► because they were using an existing part

01:11:09 ◼   ► but it just doesn't seem like they would

01:11:11 ◼   ► do it's the same reason they had 24-bit

01:11:13 ◼   ► memory bus on the Macintosh because

01:11:15 ◼   ► first of all you're never going to

01:11:16 ◼   ► address like 32 4 gigabytes of RAM

01:11:19 ◼   ► gigabytes you can't you can't have four

01:11:22 ◼   ► gigabit you know the Mac guys had 128

01:11:24 ◼   ► kilobytes of RAM oh yeah even a 24-bit

01:11:26 ◼   ► Mary bus preserve so you save money

01:11:28 ◼   ► because you have less you know what less

01:11:31 ◼   ► room on the chip less traces on your

01:11:33 ◼   ► board blah blah so I'm assuming that it

01:11:35 ◼   ► wasn't but if there's any part of it is

01:11:36 ◼   ► 64-bit you can call it 64-bit okay so a

01:11:39 ◼   ► little bit of digging as you were

01:11:41 ◼   ► talking the are 4200 has a 30 20 trans

01:11:45 ◼   ► translation lookaside buffer table the

01:11:47 ◼   ► system bus the 64 bits wide and operates

01:11:49 ◼   ► at half the internal clock frequency

01:11:51 ◼   ► however the are 4300 I which is what I

01:11:54 ◼   ► believe was in the n64 is a derivative

01:11:56 ◼   ► of that blah blah blah blah blah and a

01:11:59 ◼   ► cut-down 32-bit system bus for reduced

01:12:01 ◼   ► cost yeah but in marketing for mark

01:12:05 ◼   ► needs and by the way like I said lots of

01:12:07 ◼   ► times in 32-bit processors the like I

01:12:10 ◼   ► know but x86 indexes have a 8080 bit

01:12:13 ◼   ► wide floating-point registers doesn't

01:12:14 ◼   ► like that I don't remember something I

01:12:15 ◼   ► just had to learn how to decode that

01:12:17 ◼   ► format yeah but no one ever said it's an

01:12:20 ◼   ► 80 bit processor just because of

01:12:22 ◼   ► convention they just kind of say oh the

01:12:24 ◼   ► memory bus and the engine registers

01:12:26 ◼   ► that's kind of what we call the

01:12:27 ◼   ► processor right that's why it that's why

01:12:29 ◼   ► they're marketing terms because 16-bit

01:12:31 ◼   ► and 32-bit it might you might think it

01:12:35 ◼   ► means something but unless you know

01:12:36 ◼   ► exactly what it means it doesn't you

01:12:39 ◼   ► know never mind that like the width of

01:12:40 ◼   ► the memory bus and the size of integer

01:12:42 ◼   ► registers really says nothing about how

01:12:43 ◼   ► fast the thing processes stuff like and

01:12:46 ◼   ► you know anyway gating speed is hard but

01:12:49 ◼   ► there was a clear progression with

01:12:50 ◼   ► number of bits up to about the 32-bit

01:12:53 ◼   ► point where we hung out for a long time

01:12:54 ◼   ► and now that we've gone to 64-bit where

01:12:57 ◼   ► we really are 64 bits you know even 64

01:13:00 ◼   ► memory bus I don't think we're at full

01:13:01 ◼   ► 64 what does worth like the Zeon's have

01:13:03 ◼   ► they probably have like 48 bit yeah

01:13:05 ◼   ► because there was that there was that

01:13:06 ◼   ► PAE thing for awhile where I like to

01:13:09 ◼   ► address more than I think 16 gigs there

01:13:12 ◼   ► was something like that we're like even

01:13:13 ◼   ► even the Intel even when Intel went

01:13:15 ◼   ► 64-bit

01:13:16 ◼   ► you couldn't address 64 bits

01:13:18 ◼   ► worth of memory without certain tricks

01:13:19 ◼   ► here and there and I I think that has

01:13:21 ◼   ► since been lifted to a pretty high level

01:13:24 ◼   ► but but but probably out of full 64 like

01:13:26 ◼   ► I I know that you can buy servers with

01:13:30 ◼   ► like 200 gigs of RAM in them right but

01:13:33 ◼   ► you can't buy servers with however much

01:13:35 ◼   ► RAM fits in 64 bits which is some

01:13:37 ◼   ► astronomical man right yeah

01:13:39 ◼   ► Zeta bytes or whatever the hell it is so

01:13:42 ◼   ► we're still saving money in that regard

01:13:44 ◼   ► but 64-bit integer registers are gonna

01:13:47 ◼   ► run us a good long while and I don't

01:13:49 ◼   ► really seem any anything going to

01:13:51 ◼   ► personal there's no need for a 128-bit

01:13:54 ◼   ► memory bus because we can't even

01:13:55 ◼   ► physically put 64 bits of memory like to

01:13:57 ◼   ► fill that whole address space and

01:14:00 ◼   ► 128-bit integers aren't really getting

01:14:02 ◼   ► you that much more of problems that you

01:14:05 ◼   ► can deal with in 64-bit registers

01:14:07 ◼   ► floating-point registers are even wider

01:14:09 ◼   ► than they've ever been now - and on GPUs

01:14:11 ◼   ► and in sort of the you know media

01:14:13 ◼   ► streaming sim D instruction sets those

01:14:16 ◼   ► could actually stand to go a little bit

01:14:18 ◼   ► wider just to be able to process more

01:14:19 ◼   ► values at once because a lot of times

01:14:21 ◼   ► they're using like where they call half

01:14:23 ◼   ► precision values for games and stuff

01:14:25 ◼   ► where you don't need so they'll use

01:14:26 ◼   ► they'll still use 16-bit stuff just to

01:14:27 ◼   ► pack more into process martin lunch so

01:14:29 ◼   ► there's probably Headroom for those two

01:14:31 ◼   ► all cranked up to 32 and 64-bit to you

01:14:33 ◼   ► know or or could use floating-point

01:14:35 ◼   ► everywhere for everything so there's

01:14:36 ◼   ► some headroom there but no one brags

01:14:38 ◼   ► about GPUs in terms of number bits

01:14:39 ◼   ► either because it doesn't make any sense

01:14:40 ◼   ► and that's just not how they're marketed

01:14:42 ◼   ► so this is a very long-winded

01:14:45 ◼   ► explanation that gets into more

01:14:47 ◼   ► everything you probably cared about but

01:14:49 ◼   ► I think that's that's part of the thing

01:14:50 ◼   ► that this was entirely a marketing thing

01:14:53 ◼   ► that latched on to a real thing that

01:14:55 ◼   ► happened in the progression of certain

01:14:57 ◼   ► the width of certain aspects of CPU

01:14:59 ◼   ► design in the 70s 80s and 90s that has

01:15:03 ◼   ► leveled off because there's no longer

01:15:06 ◼   ► any obvious benefit to widening these

01:15:08 ◼   ► things at an accelerated rate again

01:15:10 ◼   ► setting aside GPUs which there is some

01:15:12 ◼   ► benefit to continuing to wide and stuff

01:15:13 ◼   ► there and they will continue to be one

01:15:14 ◼   ► but GPUs are and marketed in that way so

01:15:16 ◼   ► marketing is weird I would also say like

01:15:19 ◼   ► you know date like back in you know

01:15:21 ◼   ► we're like we grew up in the well Casey

01:15:23 ◼   ► and I grew up in these days John was

01:15:24 ◼   ► already infected but but you know we're

01:15:27 ◼   ► over the time we're like you know like

01:15:29 ◼   ► like we we both really saw like the the

01:15:32 ◼   ► two 16-bit two 32-bit generations and

01:15:35 ◼   ► you know 8-bit systems like they didn't

01:15:37 ◼   ► market themselves as 8-bit it was the

01:15:38 ◼   ► you know the NES versus the Sega Master

01:15:40 ◼   ► System

01:15:41 ◼   ► you know vast majority dominated by the

01:15:43 ◼   ► NES and then the Sega Genesis Mass you

01:15:46 ◼   ► know was very heavily marketed when it

01:15:48 ◼   ► came out of 16-bit because it was like

01:15:49 ◼   ► this is twice as good like that was

01:15:51 ◼   ► really like when the marketing I think

01:15:52 ◼   ► was a peak like oh my god this is 16-bit

01:15:54 ◼   ► and then the Super Nintendo came out and

01:15:56 ◼   ► that was you know well marketed to be

01:15:57 ◼   ► 16-bit as well not as heavily as the

01:15:59 ◼   ► Genesis though and then you know we went

01:16:03 ◼   ► 32-bit with the PlayStation 1 the Sega

01:16:05 ◼   ► Saturn and then the generations kind of

01:16:08 ◼   ► started being staggered like the n64

01:16:10 ◼   ► came out there was a gap between the

01:16:13 ◼   ► 32-bit generation and the n64 so it

01:16:16 ◼   ► started becoming like oh look since

01:16:17 ◼   ► there's a gap and the n64 was in many

01:16:19 ◼   ► ways significantly better than the

01:16:21 ◼   ► Saturn on the PlayStation 1 then it was

01:16:23 ◼   ► like this is they were they were kind of

01:16:25 ◼   ► trying to say this is the next

01:16:26 ◼   ► generation even though it was kind of

01:16:28 ◼   ► like a half generational step and like

01:16:31 ◼   ► the generations were no longer in sync

01:16:32 ◼   ► and then that continued in the future

01:16:35 ◼   ► generations like Sega went kind of you

01:16:38 ◼   ► know middle of generation with the

01:16:39 ◼   ► Dreamcast

01:16:40 ◼   ► then the ps2 came out really early and

01:16:42 ◼   ► then the Xbox happened like a little bit

01:16:45 ◼   ► later so like the generation started to

01:16:47 ◼   ► become more staggered and it wasn't all

01:16:50 ◼   ► like okay these are the two systems of

01:16:51 ◼   ► this one then these are the two systems

01:16:53 ◼   ► for this one and then of course this

01:16:55 ◼   ► correspondent with us what John was

01:16:56 ◼   ► saying highlight the bits kind of

01:16:57 ◼   ► stopped growing and stopped mattering

01:16:59 ◼   ► the number of bits has so little bearing

01:17:01 ◼   ► on modern performance like computers

01:17:04 ◼   ► back then especially the kind of

01:17:05 ◼   ► computers that were in game consoles

01:17:07 ◼   ► were really simple I think once we've

01:17:10 ◼   ► got to the era of having many different

01:17:13 ◼   ► processors being involved and having

01:17:16 ◼   ► them all be pretty complex and then

01:17:18 ◼   ► having things like vector instructions

01:17:20 ◼   ► which you know take the street like you

01:17:22 ◼   ► know you mentioned Cindy and then you

01:17:24 ◼   ► have GPUs coming and you have the GPU

01:17:26 ◼   ► revolution that's happened like over the

01:17:27 ◼   ► last you know you know decade or so

01:17:29 ◼   ► we're like GPUs have gotten so

01:17:31 ◼   ► incredible and so much of computing is

01:17:33 ◼   ► moving to the GPU and that's where so

01:17:36 ◼   ► much of the action is happening and

01:17:37 ◼   ► they're the bits you know are completely

01:17:40 ◼   ► different than the CPU but you know it's

01:17:42 ◼   ► it's you know a lot of things don't work

01:17:44 ◼   ► the same way or don't matter the same

01:17:45 ◼   ► so I think most of the reason we've

01:17:48 ◼   ► moved past the bits thing is that you

01:17:52 ◼   ► like like you know like Simon asks like

01:17:53 ◼   ► how many bits does a modern console have

01:17:55 ◼   ► you kind of can't say guys like well how

01:17:58 ◼   ► many how many bits in what part do the

01:18:00 ◼   ► integer registers of the CPU or the

01:18:03 ◼   ► address bus even matter to modern

01:18:05 ◼   ► performance or is it like for a game

01:18:08 ◼   ► console you're probably looking more

01:18:09 ◼   ► more at the GPU than anything else how

01:18:11 ◼   ► many bits wide is the GPU you know in

01:18:14 ◼   ► various like buses and thing like that

01:18:15 ◼   ► like that might matter but even that's

01:18:18 ◼   ► hard to compare between different

01:18:19 ◼   ► architectures and different generations

01:18:20 ◼   ► and everything else like it's just

01:18:22 ◼   ► everything is so much more advanced now

01:18:24 ◼   ► that it's way more complicated there

01:18:27 ◼   ► really is no single number you can say

01:18:29 ◼   ► all right this is a you know 128-bit

01:18:31 ◼   ► system like you really can't say that

01:18:33 ◼   ► anymore and it's not really a relevant

01:18:34 ◼   ► question to even ask they do have the

01:18:36 ◼   ► numbers that they say though like to

01:18:38 ◼   ► that end manufacturers do throw numbers

01:18:41 ◼   ► at you but the numbers are no longer

01:18:42 ◼   ► about width in most cases although like

01:18:45 ◼   ► I said I think they probably will go

01:18:46 ◼   ► back to with once they start once the

01:18:48 ◼   ► GPU precision starts going up and that

01:18:51 ◼   ► starts mattering more in-game so for now

01:18:52 ◼   ► they don't say that but what they do

01:18:53 ◼   ► tell you is they tell you flops

01:18:57 ◼   ► floating-point operations per second

01:18:59 ◼   ► from the GPU because that's kind of how

01:19:01 ◼   ► they just do this sort of you know my

01:19:04 ◼   ► GPU is bigger than your GPU like the

01:19:06 ◼   ► architecture is so complicated that no

01:19:07 ◼   ► one can comprehend it right no regular

01:19:09 ◼   ► people comprehend it but and it's very

01:19:10 ◼   ► regular and repeated in those maybe

01:19:12 ◼   ► they'll tell you the number of execution

01:19:14 ◼   ► units just something a number of engines

01:19:15 ◼   ► or a number of building blocks but

01:19:16 ◼   ► really want you want to know is

01:19:17 ◼   ► floating-point operations per second

01:19:19 ◼   ► that's just a big aggregate number that

01:19:20 ◼   ► doesn't really have any bearing piece

01:19:22 ◼   ► you're never actually maxing it out well

01:19:24 ◼   ► maybe if you're really good game

01:19:25 ◼   ► developer you might be maxing out for

01:19:26 ◼   ► some period of time they'll tell you

01:19:28 ◼   ► memory bandwidth which is important for

01:19:30 ◼   ► how you can shuffle information to and

01:19:33 ◼   ► from your big pool of RAM and to and

01:19:36 ◼   ► from the CPU and the GPU and those

01:19:39 ◼   ► numbers I think have way more bearing on

01:19:41 ◼   ► performance than any kind of width

01:19:43 ◼   ► because at least they tell you like I

01:19:44 ◼   ► can process this many things in this

01:19:46 ◼   ► amount of times that I can ship this

01:19:47 ◼   ► many things from A to B and these days

01:19:50 ◼   ► that's what people are measuring

01:19:52 ◼   ► consoles are and then maybe clock speeds

01:19:54 ◼   ► they'll throw in there but really that's

01:19:55 ◼   ► not so much they don't do even do that

01:19:56 ◼   ► much CPU measuring if there's lots of

01:19:58 ◼   ► ways you could measure CP

01:19:59 ◼   ► but they don't even really compare those

01:20:00 ◼   ► because they know that for the most part

01:20:02 ◼   ► especially as we've gone to HD and now

01:20:05 ◼   ► 4k the GPU is very often the limiting

01:20:07 ◼   ► factor so they throw they throw that

01:20:09 ◼   ► stuff around so there's always some

01:20:11 ◼   ► number that come up with a marketing

01:20:13 ◼   ► team to to let people measure their

01:20:17 ◼   ► consoles against the let people's

01:20:18 ◼   ► consoles but it hasn't been bits for a

01:20:21 ◼   ► while and and speaking on the bits thing

01:20:23 ◼   ► like and I don't know if this was clear

01:20:25 ◼   ► but like the reason the reason it

01:20:27 ◼   ► mattered so much back when we were gone

01:20:28 ◼   ► to 8 to 16 and 60 and 32 is not just

01:20:32 ◼   ► like the count ability of things of

01:20:35 ◼   ► saying 65 K is not quite enough I think

01:20:37 ◼   ► the the the thing that brings it home is

01:20:40 ◼   ► a link that I couldn't find out it tried

01:20:41 ◼   ► to Google for it maybe it wouldn't be

01:20:42 ◼   ► more successful is to think about what

01:20:44 ◼   ► it would be like to build a game on a

01:20:48 ◼   ► device that had 8-bit integer registers

01:20:52 ◼   ► and no floating-point so you get you get

01:20:56 ◼   ► 0 to 255 and you have to make a game

01:21:00 ◼   ► like that's all you have you can add

01:21:02 ◼   ► subtract divide you can do whatever you

01:21:04 ◼   ► want with those numbers right but

01:21:06 ◼   ► there's no floating point and you can

01:21:08 ◼   ► never have a number bigger than 255 and

01:21:09 ◼   ► you can ever number smaller than 0 and

01:21:11 ◼   ► if you want to do negatives you can you

01:21:12 ◼   ► know reserved a bit for sign and have

01:21:14 ◼   ► your range right and that's I'm if my

01:21:17 ◼   ► memory serves me correctly that is not

01:21:18 ◼   ► just a hypothetical exercise that's the

01:21:20 ◼   ► original Gameboy and if you think of the

01:21:22 ◼   ► some of the games that are arranged in

01:21:23 ◼   ► the middle of Gameboy like say you're

01:21:25 ◼   ► making a side scroller how do you keep

01:21:27 ◼   ► track of where they are on the thing or

01:21:28 ◼   ► say you're doing a top view Legend of

01:21:29 ◼   ► Zelda where are they on the map how many

01:21:32 ◼   ► inventory items do they have like try

01:21:33 ◼   ► making a game where you can only count

01:21:35 ◼   ► from 0 to 255

01:21:36 ◼   ► it's really hard you have to be very

01:21:38 ◼   ► clever and never mind that oh by the way

01:21:40 ◼   ► that's also the thing that's figuring

01:21:41 ◼   ► out how to draw the screen and what

01:21:42 ◼   ► palettes to go from and had to define

01:21:44 ◼   ► sprites and do stuff like that that's

01:21:47 ◼   ► why the bits mattered so much because

01:21:49 ◼   ► when you went from 8-bit 16-bit suddenly

01:21:52 ◼   ► you had enough numbers for counting that

01:21:56 ◼   ► you could define bigger color look-up

01:21:58 ◼   ► tables and you could make bigger sprites

01:22:00 ◼   ► and ship them around and count to higher

01:22:02 ◼   ► numbers to make bigger maps and yes of

01:22:05 ◼   ► course is the audio processing as you

01:22:06 ◼   ► know higher bitrate for audio and stuff

01:22:08 ◼   ► like that you would see the result of

01:22:11 ◼   ► those bits on the screen

01:22:12 ◼   ► the clock speed you don't even care what

01:22:15 ◼   ► that was you're just like now I can

01:22:16 ◼   ► count the higher numbers now I can keep

01:22:18 ◼   ► track of more colors and more things on

01:22:19 ◼   ► the screen because I have you know that

01:22:22 ◼   ► there's literally you can count the

01:22:24 ◼   ► higher number it makes a big difference

01:22:25 ◼   ► especially when you don't have

01:22:26 ◼   ► floating-point to approximate those

01:22:27 ◼   ► things and so the leap from 8 16 to 32

01:22:32 ◼   ► were huge partially because of the

01:22:35 ◼   ► bidness just because you were so starved

01:22:39 ◼   ► you were so starved for the ability to

01:22:41 ◼   ► just count and do basic math and keep

01:22:44 ◼   ► track of things in the limited

01:22:45 ◼   ► architecture but once you can count to 4

01:22:47 ◼   ► billion you're probably ok with the

01:22:50 ◼   ► counting thing you're probably ok with

01:22:52 ◼   ► the number of colors you got all that

01:22:54 ◼   ► stuff covered and by the way you have

01:22:55 ◼   ► floating-point some of the point along

01:22:57 ◼   ► and like floating point comes in so if

01:22:58 ◼   ► you really need to do something you can

01:22:59 ◼   ► do floating point and so that's why you

01:23:02 ◼   ► don't have rehab it's anymore but I

01:23:04 ◼   ► think bits were actually super important

01:23:06 ◼   ► like Margot said 16-bit was a change you

01:23:08 ◼   ► could see so much more than you could

01:23:10 ◼   ► see that you know a difference in ps3

01:23:12 ◼   ► and ps4 8-bit 16-bit was just like it

01:23:16 ◼   ► was bigger than retina it was no one is

01:23:18 ◼   ► confused about it and they asked gamer s

01:23:20 ◼   ► any asked and nobody is confused it was

01:23:22 ◼   ► such a big difference that's kids these

01:23:24 ◼   ► days closest thing they have is

01:23:27 ◼   ► appreciating how much faster new iPhones

01:23:28 ◼   ► are than previous ones because they're

01:23:29 ◼   ► still getting faster pretty fast but

01:23:31 ◼   ► there is no technological equivalent to

01:23:34 ◼   ► 8 16 32 bit console progression for

01:23:38 ◼   ► people growing up today so far maybe

01:23:40 ◼   ► when they get into the holographic

01:23:41 ◼   ► things they're biologic or modification

01:23:43 ◼   ► it will have even bigger changes but for

01:23:45 ◼   ► now you just listen to stories from old

01:23:47 ◼   ► people what I would say to like I think

01:23:49 ◼   ► one of the biggest reasons why we stop

01:23:51 ◼   ► talking about bits is that even the

01:23:54 ◼   ► whole concept of having these like

01:23:55 ◼   ► console measuring contests just like

01:23:59 ◼   ► fell out of relevance because consoles

01:24:02 ◼   ► are all so powerful now I don't know

01:24:04 ◼   ► anybody who I mean maybe except John who

01:24:07 ◼   ► would make a console buying decision

01:24:10 ◼   ► based on hardware specs

01:24:12 ◼   ► you're you're just down the ride forums

01:24:15 ◼   ► that's the console war still exists oh I

01:24:17 ◼   ► mean I'm sure I'm sure those people will

01:24:19 ◼   ► always talk about it but like I think

01:24:22 ◼   ► it's definitely not in the mass market

01:24:24 ◼   ► if it ever was even like

01:24:26 ◼   ► you don't buy a new consult today

01:24:28 ◼   ► because of how many mega flops or

01:24:30 ◼   ► teraflops or whatever the unit is today

01:24:32 ◼   ► like you don't buy a console today based

01:24:35 ◼   ► on that like you know if you're deciding

01:24:36 ◼   ► between the you know the xbox of the of

01:24:39 ◼   ► the day and the PlayStation of the day

01:24:41 ◼   ► and the switch of the day that decision

01:24:43 ◼   ► is going to be made based on things like

01:24:44 ◼   ► games like like titles that are

01:24:47 ◼   ► available for the system's it's gonna be

01:24:49 ◼   ► based on things like media features

01:24:51 ◼   ► heart like output features like doesn't

01:24:53 ◼   ► support 4k or not you know VR potential

01:24:57 ◼   ► you know add-on potentially that's gonna

01:24:59 ◼   ► be the kind of thing that most people

01:25:01 ◼   ► buy their consoles based on these days

01:25:02 ◼   ► the hardware is so good now it's you

01:25:05 ◼   ► know it's the the the gains that are

01:25:07 ◼   ► occurring in the hardware are oftentimes

01:25:10 ◼   ► not very relevant in like numeric terms

01:25:14 ◼   ► compared to other attributes of the

01:25:16 ◼   ► system that aren't necessarily its raw

01:25:18 ◼   ► performance so my dad as I've mentioned

01:25:21 ◼   ► in the past on this show worked for IBM

01:25:23 ◼   ► for almost my entire life and I remember

01:25:27 ◼   ► that he was so excited about the cel

01:25:31 ◼   ► processor in the PlayStation 3 and was

01:25:33 ◼   ► talking to me constantly about it I

01:25:35 ◼   ► don't know how much of that was just

01:25:36 ◼   ► because he was an IBM ER and it was an

01:25:38 ◼   ► IBM processor or at least in part anyway

01:25:40 ◼   ► I don't know how much that was like

01:25:42 ◼   ► regular people marketing or how much of

01:25:45 ◼   ► that was just IBM patting themselves on

01:25:47 ◼   ► the back but and John I'm kind of

01:25:48 ◼   ► looking to you to clarify but I heard

01:25:50 ◼   ► about this Cell processor constantly in

01:25:52 ◼   ► about OKC did you hear what they're

01:25:53 ◼   ► doing to sell now oh and they're doing

01:25:55 ◼   ► this for you know scientific computing

01:25:56 ◼   ► oh they're doing this for some other

01:25:58 ◼   ► thing you know it's not just about the

01:25:59 ◼   ► Playstations it's gonna revolutionize

01:26:00 ◼   ► the way computers are built which sort

01:26:03 ◼   ► of kind of was sort of kind of wasn't

01:26:04 ◼   ► but anyway did did that marketing ever

01:26:06 ◼   ► really happen or was that just being the

01:26:08 ◼   ► child of an IBM er it it did and like I

01:26:11 ◼   ► said there part of the reason you don't

01:26:14 ◼   ► see as much of that these days it's just

01:26:15 ◼   ► because the consoles became so similar

01:26:17 ◼   ► because the the ability to create the

01:26:21 ◼   ► stuff that goes into consoles started to

01:26:23 ◼   ► go so far outside the realm of console

01:26:25 ◼   ► developers ability they could they

01:26:27 ◼   ► couldn't even like outsource it and say

01:26:28 ◼   ► we want you to build you a CPU like this

01:26:30 ◼   ► just because it cost so much money and

01:26:32 ◼   ► so they started to have to pool their

01:26:36 ◼   ► resources and it would be like Nvidia's

01:26:38 ◼   ► as well we

01:26:39 ◼   ► got a lot of GPUs and we can customize

01:26:41 ◼   ► one of our GPUs for your thing but we're

01:26:44 ◼   ► not gonna build you a fresh GPU from

01:26:46 ◼   ► scratch just for your thing we can

01:26:47 ◼   ► cobble together something out of like

01:26:49 ◼   ► leftover bits of the last generation of

01:26:51 ◼   ► our desktop parts site and there's no

01:26:53 ◼   ► way you Nintendo or Microsoft or Sony

01:26:56 ◼   ► are gonna design here on CPU from

01:26:57 ◼   ► scratch like forget it so how about

01:27:00 ◼   ► everybody just uses PowerPC cpus of a

01:27:03 ◼   ► couple of different variants and AMD ATI

01:27:06 ◼   ► GPUs and so we have whole generation of

01:27:07 ◼   ► consoles with PowerPC TV CPUs cobbled

01:27:10 ◼   ► together from cores that were used in

01:27:12 ◼   ► like Mac's slightly modified and ATI at

01:27:17 ◼   ► that time GPUs and in this generation

01:27:19 ◼   ► you've got x86 CPUs from AMD they're in

01:27:21 ◼   ► the PlayStation and the Xbox that use

01:27:23 ◼   ► that and GPUs from AMD also very similar

01:27:29 ◼   ► very off-the-shelf parts so what are you

01:27:31 ◼   ► gonna brag about right and so the sell

01:27:33 ◼   ► was different the sell was probably the

01:27:36 ◼   ► last the last gasp of we want a

01:27:42 ◼   ► radically different thing that is not

01:27:45 ◼   ► just a bunch of PowerPC your x86 CPU

01:27:47 ◼   ► core store and although there were

01:27:48 ◼   ► PowerPC cores in there because you can't

01:27:50 ◼   ► do everything from scratch but it's

01:27:53 ◼   ► gonna be really weird really different

01:27:55 ◼   ► really exotic and have lots of

01:27:56 ◼   ► interesting ideas in it and to make that

01:28:00 ◼   ► happen they had to convince IBM or IBM

01:28:03 ◼   ► had to convince itself that like your

01:28:05 ◼   ► dad said it's not just about the

01:28:06 ◼   ► PlayStation there's gonna be lots of

01:28:08 ◼   ► applications for the sale and we user of

01:28:09 ◼   ► this and we can use with that to justify

01:28:11 ◼   ► the massive investment they put in

01:28:12 ◼   ► partnership with all these other people

01:28:14 ◼   ► to make this thing and they did reuse

01:28:15 ◼   ► PowerPC cores for certains for the like

01:28:18 ◼   ► the effort where they call it the PPEs

01:28:21 ◼   ► right both for the SPU's they made these

01:28:23 ◼   ► other little cores and they made this

01:28:24 ◼   ► ring bus and everything and it was a

01:28:26 ◼   ► really cool really interesting cpu

01:28:29 ◼   ► architecture like go read the articles

01:28:32 ◼   ► about the cell it is it is novel and

01:28:34 ◼   ► interesting and has lots of ideas from

01:28:36 ◼   ► like supercomputing and other things in

01:28:38 ◼   ► a small package totally a technological

01:28:41 ◼   ► feat so your dad was right to be excited

01:28:42 ◼   ► about it but to Marco's point you know

01:28:49 ◼   ► people don't care about that

01:28:51 ◼   ► they just care about the games

01:28:52 ◼   ► to your point Casey Sony did market the

01:28:55 ◼   ► exoticness of the cell as much as they

01:28:56 ◼   ► could they were all about the cell is

01:28:59 ◼   ► different than other people's things and

01:29:00 ◼   ► it was different

01:29:01 ◼   ► Sony's pitch was it's different in a way

01:29:03 ◼   ► that will make you have amazing things

01:29:04 ◼   ► in reality it was different in a way

01:29:06 ◼   ► that will make it very difficult to

01:29:07 ◼   ► write dev tools that work to it because

01:29:10 ◼   ► it doesn't work like any other game

01:29:11 ◼   ► console and it was very difficult to

01:29:13 ◼   ► write a program that efficiently used

01:29:15 ◼   ► all those resources because it was

01:29:17 ◼   ► honestly not quite a good balance in

01:29:20 ◼   ► resources you really had to figure out

01:29:22 ◼   ► how to orchestrate them just so you were

01:29:23 ◼   ► using them all to their maximum extent

01:29:25 ◼   ► and not leaving any idle and it was just

01:29:26 ◼   ► it took years and years for the best

01:29:29 ◼   ► developers game developers in the world

01:29:30 ◼   ► to figure out how to ring all the

01:29:31 ◼   ► performance out of the cell by the time

01:29:33 ◼   ► the Last of Us came out it's like wow

01:29:35 ◼   ► ps3 is pretty powerful gonna do some

01:29:37 ◼   ► pretty amazing stuff but it's still kind

01:29:39 ◼   ► of unbalanced and the whole system is

01:29:40 ◼   ► kind of RAM starved and I wish it had

01:29:42 ◼   ► more of this and a little bit of that

01:29:43 ◼   ► and it's the you know this is the case

01:29:46 ◼   ► you must love this because the current

01:29:48 ◼   ► generation of consoles and you know for

01:29:50 ◼   ► a while now it's been the American

01:29:51 ◼   ► approach of there's no substitute for

01:29:53 ◼   ► cubic inches you know you can give it a

01:29:56 ◼   ► ton of RAM give it a big powerful x86

01:30:00 ◼   ► CPU and like a cut-down desktop GPU done

01:30:03 ◼   ► and done no exotic architecture needed

01:30:05 ◼   ► solve the problem by throwing by

01:30:07 ◼   ► throwing this placement that's what

01:30:08 ◼   ► they're throwing it right and it's easy

01:30:10 ◼   ► to develop for it because it's kind of

01:30:11 ◼   ► the same you know PC game console

01:30:16 ◼   ► whatever you can x86 CPU GPU that you

01:30:19 ◼   ► familiar with 3d api's that you're

01:30:21 ◼   ► familiar with amateur toolchain and

01:30:23 ◼   ► everything that's what people want and

01:30:24 ◼   ► that's what they have so the sell

01:30:26 ◼   ► approach was technologically really cool

01:30:28 ◼   ► and interesting and they did market the

01:30:30 ◼   ► really cool interesting part of it but

01:30:32 ◼   ► it ended up making a console that didn't

01:30:35 ◼   ► produce the results in terms of cool fun

01:30:38 ◼   ► novel games that Sony wanted it to and

01:30:40 ◼   ► so everybody learned the lesson of that

01:30:42 ◼   ► including Sony and the ps4 was like a

01:30:43 ◼   ► giant apology about the ps3 the ps4

01:30:46 ◼   ► fixed everything that was wrong with the

01:30:48 ◼   ► ps3 it was so conventional so

01:30:50 ◼   ► straightforward had so much friggin RAM

01:30:51 ◼   ► was so simple to develop for that's why

01:30:54 ◼   ► the ps3 did so much better than the ps4

01:30:57 ◼   ► did so much better than the ps3 that

01:31:00 ◼   ► went on longer than expected but that

01:31:01 ◼   ► was that was awesome so thank you John

01:31:03 ◼   ► for telling us a bottle of skåne

01:31:04 ◼   ► consoles they're great

01:31:06 ◼   ► I won't argue with you but I've been

01:31:08 ◼   ► really liking my switch lately as I keep

01:31:10 ◼   ► bringing up over and over again that

01:31:11 ◼   ► uses an off-the-shelf NVIDIA Tegra x1

01:31:13 ◼   ► because Nintendo can't even afford to

01:31:16 ◼   ► have people make mildly custom things

01:31:17 ◼   ► for them

01:31:18 ◼   ► really I love the switch I'm so it is

01:31:21 ◼   ► the system I and and you know it is

01:31:24 ◼   ► assume that I've been happiest with you

01:31:26 ◼   ► know it's basically since my Genesis

01:31:27 ◼   ► like that's I have not had a game system

01:31:29 ◼   ► since my Genesis that I was dis happy

01:31:32 ◼   ► with and it has almost nothing to do

01:31:34 ◼   ► with the processor or the GPU I have no

01:31:37 ◼   ► idea what it has in it I I didn't look

01:31:39 ◼   ► at that when getting it I haven't

01:31:41 ◼   ► thought to look at that since I have no

01:31:43 ◼   ► idea how it compares to the Xbox 17 or

01:31:47 ◼   ► whatever the hell Xbox is the current

01:31:48 ◼   ► Xbox way less powerful that's how I

01:31:51 ◼   ► could probably but it doesn't matter at

01:31:53 ◼   ► all like it just doesn't because what

01:31:55 ◼   ► matters is the games and the games are

01:31:56 ◼   ► awesome like that's that that to me is

01:31:59 ◼   ► so much more important than any of the

01:32:01 ◼   ► specs and like I'm just I'm incredibly

01:32:04 ◼   ► happy with my game console and I have no

01:32:06 ◼   ► idea what's in it so it does matter in

01:32:10 ◼   ► that if it was really difficult to

01:32:11 ◼   ► develop for the switch it would take

01:32:13 ◼   ► longer to make games that are up to the

01:32:16 ◼   ► standards that you're currently playing

01:32:17 ◼   ► them right and if there were fewer games

01:32:20 ◼   ► because not as many developers would be

01:32:22 ◼   ► able to to you know so like there is

01:32:24 ◼   ► there are aspects of a technology that

01:32:26 ◼   ► impact like how do we end up with good

01:32:28 ◼   ► games you need to have a minimum

01:32:30 ◼   ► baseline of like oh I can develop games

01:32:32 ◼   ► to this and it's not too weird and I can

01:32:34 ◼   ► develop them efficiently with skills I

01:32:36 ◼   ► already have without encountering too

01:32:38 ◼   ► many bugs without having to learn an

01:32:40 ◼   ► entirely new custom dev environment and

01:32:43 ◼   ► 3d API and toolchain and everything like

01:32:46 ◼   ► that's a part of the technology

01:32:48 ◼   ► selection that does impact the part that

01:32:49 ◼   ► you care about I would also argue that

01:32:51 ◼   ► the power of the system also influences

01:32:54 ◼   ► what you care about but it's clear that

01:32:55 ◼   ► the switch is a compromise between a

01:32:58 ◼   ► plugged into the wall TV connected

01:33:00 ◼   ► console and a portable one so they made

01:33:03 ◼   ► they have to make compromises in power

01:33:05 ◼   ► and it is less powerful and I think that

01:33:07 ◼   ► decrease in power gives you the huge

01:33:10 ◼   ► benefits of portability which according

01:33:11 ◼   ► to defend those surveys that they're

01:33:12 ◼   ► running tons of people use this in

01:33:14 ◼   ► portable mode so they made the right

01:33:15 ◼   ► choice there but the downside is that

01:33:18 ◼   ► games that are possible on the ps4 and

01:33:22 ◼   ► Xbox one X and especially the Xbox one X

01:33:25 ◼   ► and but also the Xbox one may not be

01:33:28 ◼   ► possible on the switch and so they won't

01:33:30 ◼   ► even get ports or if they do get ports

01:33:31 ◼   ► they'll be cut down ports which means

01:33:33 ◼   ► that most people want to play them other

01:33:34 ◼   ► consoles right so power is still think

01:33:37 ◼   ► the thing that Apple needs to Apple in

01:33:38 ◼   ► tender needs to keep up with there there

01:33:40 ◼   ► are rumors that Nintendo actually is

01:33:42 ◼   ► going to come out with a sort of a

01:33:43 ◼   ► switch Pro with a more powerful probably

01:33:46 ◼   ► nvidia tegra x2 maybe chip inside it

01:33:48 ◼   ► again probably off the shelf because

01:33:51 ◼   ► that's the thing they're doing these

01:33:52 ◼   ► days is making speck bumped versions of

01:33:55 ◼   ► existing consoles that nevertheless play

01:33:56 ◼   ► all the old games sort of like a

01:33:58 ◼   ► generation and a half type thing and the

01:34:00 ◼   ► reason they do that is like the Nintendo

01:34:02 ◼   ► also knows if we make this more powerful

01:34:04 ◼   ► we it expands the realm of the kind of

01:34:07 ◼   ► games we can make the breadth of the

01:34:09 ◼   ► wilds follow up if there ever is one for

01:34:10 ◼   ► the switch but whatever platform it's on

01:34:13 ◼   ► we'll be able to have a more detailed

01:34:15 ◼   ► more expansive world than this one was

01:34:16 ◼   ► in the same way that you could never do

01:34:18 ◼   ► breath of the wild on a Wii U or are we

01:34:21 ◼   ► like that better game that we all love

01:34:24 ◼   ► it just care about the games you can't

01:34:26 ◼   ► do that game on less powerful consoles

01:34:28 ◼   ► because the world is too big the draw

01:34:29 ◼   ► businesses are too large doesn't have

01:34:31 ◼   ► the you know the heart of our software

01:34:33 ◼   ► to set for all the level of detail stuff

01:34:35 ◼   ► doesn't have the RAM so on and so forth

01:34:36 ◼   ► so technology does enable good games and

01:34:38 ◼   ► has to be pursued but absolute spec

01:34:42 ◼   ► numbers are not the end-all be-all

01:34:44 ◼   ► because if you add up all the

01:34:45 ◼   ► theoretical floating-point operations of

01:34:46 ◼   ► the cell could do it looks like it's

01:34:48 ◼   ► amazing monster CPU when in the end

01:34:49 ◼   ► people couldn't even figure out how to

01:34:51 ◼   ► use half of it and half the launch games

01:34:52 ◼   ► we're leaving leaving huge swaths of the

01:34:55 ◼   ► surface area the silicon surface area of

01:34:57 ◼   ► the chip idle because they just couldn't

01:34:58 ◼   ► figure out how to even use all those

01:35:00 ◼   ► cores and their engine only knew how to

01:35:01 ◼   ► use like one or two so they would use

01:35:03 ◼   ► one or two and leave half the hardware

01:35:04 ◼   ► idle like the launch games that's not a

01:35:07 ◼   ► good situation and just put a period on

01:35:10 ◼   ► this four hour ask ATP hey I really love

01:35:14 ◼   ► having the ability to pop the switch out

01:35:17 ◼   ► of the dock and just walk around with it

01:35:18 ◼   ► and I might be the only one I mean

01:35:20 ◼   ► obviously what you said John is that it

01:35:22 ◼   ► sounds like in in Nintendo is seeing a

01:35:24 ◼   ► lot of that but they released there is

01:35:26 ◼   ► some numbers like we surveyed their

01:35:27 ◼   ► users like something that Apple never

01:35:29 ◼   ► does

01:35:29 ◼   ► how often do you use your switch docks

01:35:31 ◼   ► portable and both and like the number

01:35:34 ◼   ► like the number of people who are like

01:35:35 ◼   ► me and Marco who only use a docked was

01:35:38 ◼   ► very small it was like 20% or something

01:35:40 ◼   ► and 80% of people are using a portable

01:35:42 ◼   ► at least some of the time yeah yeah and

01:35:44 ◼   ► I use it probably half and half to be

01:35:47 ◼   ► honest which I know is probably barbaric

01:35:49 ◼   ► to you but you know it is what it is all

01:35:51 ◼   ► right so we'll try to do an abridged a

01:35:53 ◼   ► couple of ask ATP's to round this out

01:35:55 ◼   ► Johnny Oh would like to know hey what's

01:35:58 ◼   ► the deal with sports

01:35:59 ◼   ► he writes please explain to the nerd

01:36:01 ◼   ► crowd the concept of being a sports team

01:36:03 ◼   ► fan I don't understand why people refer

01:36:05 ◼   ► to my team etc unless they've actually

01:36:07 ◼   ► played for that team well you've written

01:36:08 ◼   ► into the right podcast Johnny er

01:36:10 ◼   ► supports experts here now we can cover

01:36:13 ◼   ► this quickly so Sports is about more

01:36:16 ◼   ► than just as with anything in life is

01:36:18 ◼   ► about more than just looking at the the

01:36:19 ◼   ► quote unquote ones and zeros of it and

01:36:22 ◼   ► looking kind of a little bit deeper and

01:36:23 ◼   ► so let's talk about my team so I went to

01:36:26 ◼   ► school at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg

01:36:28 ◼   ► Virginia and Virginia Tech had at the

01:36:31 ◼   ► time this was in the very early 2000s

01:36:33 ◼   ► had a exceptionally great football team

01:36:35 ◼   ► that was quarterbacked by Michael Vick

01:36:38 ◼   ► who ended up being a not so

01:36:40 ◼   ► exceptionally great human being the

01:36:42 ◼   ► dukey's home pods but are they whatever

01:36:45 ◼   ► they are Hokies

01:36:46 ◼   ► there we go yep yeah so the reason we

01:36:50 ◼   ► would one would be enthusiastic about

01:36:53 ◼   ► that is because in the case of college

01:36:55 ◼   ► sports that's your peers like they were

01:36:56 ◼   ► also students of the same University

01:36:58 ◼   ► that are playing in this Gill National

01:37:02 ◼   ► Arena and so why is it my team because I

01:37:06 ◼   ► was also a student at Virginia Tech just

01:37:09 ◼   ► like because you went to school in the

01:37:13 ◼   ► same and same school that they did right

01:37:15 ◼   ► so you were there right and they were

01:37:18 ◼   ► there right so doesn't it make it our

01:37:20 ◼   ► time you don't get that reference stop

01:37:23 ◼   ► laughing Margo no I'm laughing at the

01:37:25 ◼   ► ridiculousness of this situation like

01:37:26 ◼   ► you're right I don't the reference but

01:37:28 ◼   ► like like I like like when I was in high

01:37:30 ◼   ► school I was in the marching band for

01:37:32 ◼   ► the football team right so like I was

01:37:34 ◼   ► literally at every football game sitting

01:37:37 ◼   ► 30 feet from the football players

01:37:39 ◼   ► watching the whole game participating in

01:37:42 ◼   ► this weird

01:37:43 ◼   ► like playing music to encourage them and

01:37:45 ◼   ► celebrate victories in the game and I

01:37:47 ◼   ► still wouldn't say we won okay I would

01:37:50 ◼   ► never like my team our team like it was

01:37:53 ◼   ► literally I was right there I was

01:37:54 ◼   ► somewhat involved I would never thought

01:37:57 ◼   ► that way this is my team I couldn't give

01:38:00 ◼   ► less of a craft they did I think gays KC

01:38:04 ◼   ► is explaining is an accurate explanation

01:38:06 ◼   ► of why people feel it's their team yeah

01:38:08 ◼   ► I just I was my kind of thing snarky and

01:38:10 ◼   ► I'm silly but I think people who go to

01:38:12 ◼   ► the school do feel it's their team

01:38:13 ◼   ► because they go to the same school

01:38:14 ◼   ► despite the fact that I feel like most

01:38:16 ◼   ► college athletes especially biased love

01:38:18 ◼   ► are really going to a different school

01:38:19 ◼   ► than you are oh that's variance of

01:38:21 ◼   ► school in your experience of school

01:38:23 ◼   ► absolutely but it is still your school

01:38:25 ◼   ► and you are going to it and so are they

01:38:27 ◼   ► yeah and and this is also applicable for

01:38:31 ◼   ► professional sports except it's a much

01:38:33 ◼   ► more nebulous Association that the

01:38:35 ◼   ► school is your state and/or region

01:38:37 ◼   ► exactly so country for the Toronto

01:38:40 ◼   ► vision right so if you look at a

01:38:42 ◼   ► professional sports team it's often that

01:38:44 ◼   ► it's the team that either your family

01:38:46 ◼   ► has been rooting for so as an example

01:38:48 ◼   ► I'm a fan of the New York Giants and my

01:38:51 ◼   ► grandfather my mother's father has been

01:38:53 ◼   ► a Giants fan pretty much since the

01:38:55 ◼   ► franchise started and so I just grew up

01:38:57 ◼   ► watching the Giants such as what we did

01:38:59 ◼   ► and at the time we lived in the New York

01:39:01 ◼   ► area and so it made sense for that to be

01:39:04 ◼   ► our team because of geographic proximity

01:39:06 ◼   ► where this really falls apart is all the

01:39:09 ◼   ► completely that all the people who are

01:39:13 ◼   ► woefully uninformed and think that the

01:39:14 ◼   ► Dallas Cowboys or the Pittsburgh

01:39:16 ◼   ► Steelers are good football teams with

01:39:18 ◼   ► the notable exception of the 10 fans

01:39:20 ◼   ► from each team that actually live in

01:39:22 ◼   ► Dallas or Pittsburgh because if you ever

01:39:24 ◼   ► notice an NFL fan generally speaking

01:39:27 ◼   ► they either like the Cowboys or the

01:39:28 ◼   ► Steelers and generally speaking they

01:39:30 ◼   ► have no association with either

01:39:31 ◼   ► Pittsburgh or Dallas not that I'm bitter

01:39:33 ◼   ► about this

01:39:34 ◼   ► that's old football fans who remember

01:39:36 ◼   ► when the Cowboys and steals Steelers

01:39:40 ◼   ► they win Super Bowls isn't it now about

01:39:42 ◼   ► like Cowboys versus the cheaters it's

01:39:44 ◼   ► really purses anybody and then the

01:39:47 ◼   ► cheaters are John's team actually and I

01:39:49 ◼   ► don't have a team well cuz your team is

01:39:51 ◼   ► cheaters yes I wouldn't want to claim

01:39:53 ◼   ► them either

01:39:53 ◼   ► I wasn't rooting for the Patriots in the

01:39:55 ◼   ► Super Bowl

01:39:57 ◼   ► so anyway so the idea is that take

01:39:59 ◼   ► something that you either participated

01:40:01 ◼   ► in as a kid so as an example I played a

01:40:04 ◼   ► little bit of basketball as a kid and

01:40:06 ◼   ► imagine watching something that you can

01:40:08 ◼   ► do all right but watching some watching

01:40:11 ◼   ► somebody who is a professional at that

01:40:13 ◼   ► thing and it's just it's it's almost

01:40:16 ◼   ► poetic watching how good they are at

01:40:18 ◼   ► that particular skill in that particular

01:40:20 ◼   ► sport that's what's that's what's fun

01:40:22 ◼   ► about it and then when you add in that

01:40:24 ◼   ► kind of ownership either by way of a

01:40:26 ◼   ► school affiliation or geographic

01:40:28 ◼   ► affiliation

01:40:29 ◼   ► it just becomes fun and you know why

01:40:32 ◼   ► would you watch somebody play a video

01:40:34 ◼   ► game right it's the same thing now maybe

01:40:36 ◼   ► you wouldn't claim that that's your team

01:40:37 ◼   ► within the video game but many games

01:40:39 ◼   ► have teams now to though point you sport

01:40:42 ◼   ► eSports actually do have teams and the

01:40:43 ◼   ► teams are original and they're so

01:40:45 ◼   ► they're trying to adopt that model yeah

01:40:46 ◼   ► but you get the idea is that imagine

01:40:49 ◼   ► it's something that you do but it's some

01:40:51 ◼   ► other people that do it a hell of a lot

01:40:52 ◼   ► better than you will ever do it and it's

01:40:55 ◼   ► just cool to watch and plus you know

01:40:57 ◼   ► games are fun games are fun to watch

01:40:58 ◼   ► games are fun to play and so it's just a

01:41:00 ◼   ► confluence of all of that and I have a

01:41:02 ◼   ► feeling that Johnny oh you're gonna

01:41:04 ◼   ► listen to this and be like yeah that

01:41:05 ◼   ► didn't convince me at all and that's

01:41:06 ◼   ► okay not it sports aren't for everyone

01:41:08 ◼   ► and I'm not a crazy sports person that

01:41:10 ◼   ► watches ESPN all day every day and lives

01:41:12 ◼   ► for SportsCenter or anything like that I

01:41:14 ◼   ► just enjoy football and occasionally a

01:41:17 ◼   ► couple other sports too well the

01:41:18 ◼   ► question was about why do I endorse was

01:41:20 ◼   ► about why being a sports team fan of

01:41:23 ◼   ► having my team I think you did address

01:41:24 ◼   ► that but like it doesn't I don't think

01:41:26 ◼   ► the question was like why are sports and

01:41:27 ◼   ► durable period like just to see

01:41:28 ◼   ► achievement a human achievement or

01:41:30 ◼   ► whatever it's about the fandom and my

01:41:33 ◼   ► team type of thing to that end if I was

01:41:35 ◼   ► to give my short version of the answer

01:41:36 ◼   ► this would be that sports are a socially

01:41:39 ◼   ► acceptable outlet for xenophobia well

01:41:41 ◼   ► that's who that - not that I was making

01:41:44 ◼   ► fun of Pittsburgh Steelers or Dallas

01:41:46 ◼   ► Cowboys fans at all just moments ago all

01:41:49 ◼   ► right

01:41:49 ◼   ► Tee tee on air writes hey I know you're

01:41:51 ◼   ► not a big fan of Facebook and what they

01:41:53 ◼   ► do with their data how do you guys feel

01:41:55 ◼   ► about this whole Instagram thing since

01:41:57 ◼   ► Instagram is owned by Facebook and I

01:42:00 ◼   ► don't have a good answer for this I will

01:42:02 ◼   ► be the first to tell you I do not have a

01:42:03 ◼   ► good answer for this and my answer is I

01:42:06 ◼   ► freaking love Instagram and I'm gonna

01:42:08 ◼   ► steal Marcus thunder

01:42:10 ◼   ► Steele Marcos line and say it's my happy

01:42:11 ◼   ► place and because it's my happy place

01:42:14 ◼   ► despite the fact that they're insistent

01:42:15 ◼   ► on trying to ruin it I'm going to keep

01:42:18 ◼   ► using it until I have an even more

01:42:20 ◼   ► compelling reason not to use it I will I

01:42:22 ◼   ► do have a Facebook account I

01:42:23 ◼   ► occasionally look at it I would happily

01:42:26 ◼   ► get rid of my Facebook account

01:42:28 ◼   ► long before I would get rid of my

01:42:29 ◼   ► Instagram account and that's just a

01:42:31 ◼   ► choice I'm making I'm not saying it's a

01:42:33 ◼   ► good choice I'm not saying it's

01:42:34 ◼   ► reasonable I'm not saying it's not

01:42:35 ◼   ► hypocritical or backwards or whatever

01:42:36 ◼   ► but it's just my choice Marco yeah I

01:42:39 ◼   ► mean this it's a really like I talked a

01:42:42 ◼   ► little bit on Twitter about this earlier

01:42:43 ◼   ► like it's hard because you know the the

01:42:46 ◼   ► tech giant's are so big like Facebook

01:42:49 ◼   ► owns so much stuff if you're trying to

01:42:51 ◼   ► for instance get off all Facebook

01:42:53 ◼   ► services what if you're in one of the

01:42:55 ◼   ► many parts of the world where whatsapp

01:42:57 ◼   ► is like the default messaging platform

01:43:01 ◼   ► like that's that applies to a lot of

01:43:03 ◼   ► places to a lot of people there's a

01:43:05 ◼   ► reason why Facebook bought it for what

01:43:06 ◼   ► was like 19 billion dollars or something

01:43:08 ◼   ► like that like it's everywhere in

01:43:10 ◼   ► certain places like it I know it's kind

01:43:13 ◼   ► of oxymoron but like it's like because

01:43:15 ◼   ► whatsapp is not very big in the US so

01:43:17 ◼   ► like US residents might not realize how

01:43:19 ◼   ► big of a deal it is but everywhere else

01:43:21 ◼   ► in the world whatsapp is huge and really

01:43:23 ◼   ► is like it you know it's bigger than SMS

01:43:25 ◼   ► it's bigger than messaging it's bigger

01:43:26 ◼   ► than iMessage like it's bigger than

01:43:27 ◼   ► everything in certain parts of the world

01:43:29 ◼   ► just to tell somebody like oh well

01:43:31 ◼   ► Facebook happens to own that and

01:43:32 ◼   ► Facebook is a terrible company and so

01:43:34 ◼   ► you should quit you know everything of

01:43:36 ◼   ► theirs including whatsapp that could

01:43:38 ◼   ► really have a pretty significant

01:43:40 ◼   ► negative impact on on someone's life if

01:43:42 ◼   ► they're in an area where like whatsapp

01:43:44 ◼   ► is it's big for them this and it's hard

01:43:46 ◼   ► like I I love the idea of like dropping

01:43:50 ◼   ► a tech giant that that is you know being

01:43:53 ◼   ► you know horrible to people or to its

01:43:56 ◼   ► company or to data or whatever else in

01:43:59 ◼   ► some cases it's easier than others like

01:44:02 ◼   ► when uber is being terrible which

01:44:04 ◼   ► happens all the time like you know a lot

01:44:05 ◼   ► of us move to lift like I did I haven't

01:44:07 ◼   ► used uber since all that crap and

01:44:09 ◼   ► whatever it was like a year ago saying

01:44:11 ◼   ► I've been using lyft and it's you know

01:44:12 ◼   ► what it's totally fine because every

01:44:14 ◼   ► everywhere I've been like I don't I

01:44:16 ◼   ► don't use ride-sharing that often

01:44:17 ◼   ► usually it's only like when I'm

01:44:18 ◼   ► traveling somewhere but you know every

01:44:20 ◼   ► time I've used I've like hired a lift it

01:44:23 ◼   ► and totally fine but there are certain

01:44:25 ◼   ► regions where like lift just doesn't

01:44:27 ◼   ► really serve or doesn't serve anywhere

01:44:30 ◼   ► near well enough to be useful and so

01:44:32 ◼   ► people there have to use you know suck

01:44:33 ◼   ► it up and use uber and I'm not gonna

01:44:36 ◼   ► tell them like don't use any of these

01:44:37 ◼   ► services like if they sometimes that's

01:44:39 ◼   ► your best option

01:44:40 ◼   ► sometimes that's your only option so

01:44:42 ◼   ► it's it and so with Facebook like they

01:44:44 ◼   ► own so much and and a lot of what they

01:44:47 ◼   ► own you know both things like whatsapp

01:44:50 ◼   ► and and Instagram instagrams little bit

01:44:52 ◼   ► of a special case which get to in a

01:44:53 ◼   ► second but like you know this stuff they

01:44:55 ◼   ► own like whatsapp and the core Facebook

01:44:56 ◼   ► service itself for a lot of people they

01:45:00 ◼   ► can just drop this stuff and it's no big

01:45:02 ◼   ► deal

01:45:02 ◼   ► and that's great I encourage you to but

01:45:04 ◼   ► for a lot of people like if they aren't

01:45:07 ◼   ► on Facebook they can no longer see like

01:45:10 ◼   ► the pictures of their shoulder of their

01:45:12 ◼   ► grandchildren because that's the only

01:45:14 ◼   ► place where people post them or like

01:45:15 ◼   ► like like I have never been a really

01:45:19 ◼   ► active Facebook user I've never like

01:45:20 ◼   ► posted stuff to Facebook or anything

01:45:23 ◼   ► else but I do regularly check to

01:45:26 ◼   ► communities on Facebook because that's

01:45:28 ◼   ► the only place that these communities

01:45:30 ◼   ► exist one of them is for our summer

01:45:33 ◼   ► place and one of them is for the local

01:45:35 ◼   ► school like there's like a group of like

01:45:37 ◼   ► parents for the local school on Facebook

01:45:40 ◼   ► and a lot of times that is the the first

01:45:43 ◼   ► the best or sometimes the only place

01:45:45 ◼   ► that certain very relevant news or info

01:45:49 ◼   ► is posted and this applies like lots of

01:45:51 ◼   ► people they're kind of stuck using

01:45:53 ◼   ► Facebook for this reason because there's

01:45:55 ◼   ► some kind of community or something that

01:45:57 ◼   ► that only posts incredibly important to

01:46:00 ◼   ► them information on Facebook so it's

01:46:03 ◼   ► really hard to tell people like that you

01:46:05 ◼   ► should stop using Facebook because the

01:46:07 ◼   ► impact of them not using Facebook like

01:46:10 ◼   ► like the cost to Facebook of one less

01:46:13 ◼   ► account is probably virtually nothing

01:46:16 ◼   ► compared to the cost in that person's

01:46:19 ◼   ► life of not having access to these

01:46:21 ◼   ► communities or this information that is

01:46:23 ◼   ► posted there so it's hard to make that

01:46:25 ◼   ► argument that people who were in a

01:46:27 ◼   ► situation like that should do it and I

01:46:29 ◼   ► made the analogy earlier on Twitter it's

01:46:31 ◼   ► it's kind of like when people get mad

01:46:33 ◼   ► because they have like a bad experience

01:46:34 ◼   ► with a flight and they try to like swear

01:46:36 ◼   ► off an arrow

01:46:37 ◼   ► forever and there's like five airlines

01:46:40 ◼   ► and like they don't they don't all go to

01:46:42 ◼   ► all the same places so like like you

01:46:44 ◼   ► know if you live in say like a hub for

01:46:47 ◼   ► United and United and you get you have a

01:46:50 ◼   ► bad experience on United but just common

01:46:52 ◼   ► it's terrible like what are you gonna do

01:46:55 ◼   ► we're off united it was like if you live

01:46:57 ◼   ► somewhere that's one of their hubs and

01:46:58 ◼   ► all the flights going in and out are

01:46:59 ◼   ► united you're gonna have a really hard

01:47:01 ◼   ► time flying anywhere after that and

01:47:03 ◼   ► there's not that many airlines so if you

01:47:05 ◼   ► if you swear one off when you have a bad

01:47:08 ◼   ► experience and you eat say you're never

01:47:09 ◼   ► gonna fly with them again that starts to

01:47:13 ◼   ► impact your life pretty significantly

01:47:14 ◼   ► without too much time and so I feel like

01:47:19 ◼   ► the tech giants are in a similar

01:47:20 ◼   ► situation where like they owned so much

01:47:22 ◼   ► and so much of so many views of these

01:47:26 ◼   ► like big tech services are so critical

01:47:29 ◼   ► to people's lives and many of them don't

01:47:32 ◼   ► have direct alternatives or direct or

01:47:36 ◼   ► they have such lock into certain

01:47:37 ◼   ► communities that's very it's kind of

01:47:39 ◼   ► unrealistic to expect people to move in

01:47:41 ◼   ► mass that it's really hard to just tell

01:47:45 ◼   ► people like you shouldn't use everything

01:47:47 ◼   ► Instagram is is a bit of a special case

01:47:50 ◼   ► because to a lot of people Instagram is

01:47:53 ◼   ► not critical you know it's not like it

01:47:55 ◼   ► isn't often like part of your job or

01:47:57 ◼   ► anything but like like for me if I quit

01:47:59 ◼   ► Instagram I would lose access to a lot

01:48:02 ◼   ► of like my friends and my family's

01:48:04 ◼   ► photos because that's where they all

01:48:05 ◼   ► post them you know and like they don't

01:48:07 ◼   ► have blogs they don't have websites we

01:48:09 ◼   ► don't have photo shares elsewhere and

01:48:11 ◼   ► maybe we could try to set some up but

01:48:13 ◼   ► like that that becomes a much harder

01:48:14 ◼   ► problem for like for me to be taking a

01:48:16 ◼   ► political stance to say I don't want to

01:48:18 ◼   ► use Facebook stuff anymore to then try

01:48:20 ◼   ► to convince all my friends and family

01:48:21 ◼   ► and people I don't know very well who I

01:48:23 ◼   ► just enjoy their photos like hey you

01:48:26 ◼   ► know can you instead start posting these

01:48:28 ◼   ► over here or in addition start postings

01:48:30 ◼   ► over here like it becomes a much harder

01:48:32 ◼   ► harder proposition and you know I could

01:48:36 ◼   ► I would be fine without Facebook I would

01:48:38 ◼   ► just lose access to these communities

01:48:40 ◼   ► that are occasionally useful to me and

01:48:44 ◼   ► I'd be fine with that Instagram I would

01:48:45 ◼   ► be less happy there certain like just

01:48:48 ◼   ► you know inertia that in that

01:48:51 ◼   ► like I've been on Instagram since I

01:48:52 ◼   ► think 2010 my entire you know like the

01:48:56 ◼   ► entire life I have here in the suburbs

01:48:59 ◼   ► that includes the house my dog the

01:49:03 ◼   ► entire life of my son has all been

01:49:06 ◼   ► cataloged routinely on Instagram every

01:49:09 ◼   ► year TIFF makes a photo book of

01:49:11 ◼   ► Instagram photos for our family that's

01:49:14 ◼   ► kind of like our families aren't like

01:49:15 ◼   ► our family photo albums are like these

01:49:17 ◼   ► Instagram books like it would it would

01:49:20 ◼   ► disrupt a lot of that stuff and so I

01:49:24 ◼   ► it's hard for me to overstate how much I

01:49:28 ◼   ► dislike and disrespect Facebook the

01:49:31 ◼   ► people who run Facebook the the idea of

01:49:34 ◼   ► Facebook and and just the horrible

01:49:37 ◼   ► amoral you know morally bankrupt people

01:49:40 ◼   ► they're included right at the top right

01:49:42 ◼   ► up to Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg

01:49:44 ◼   ► right at the top like they are morally

01:49:46 ◼   ► bankrupt horrible people doing horrible

01:49:48 ◼   ► things and that's also not very new

01:49:50 ◼   ► that's it's not like this just started

01:49:51 ◼   ► happening and this 2016 election like

01:49:53 ◼   ► this is not new at all they always have

01:49:55 ◼   ► been horrible people doing horrible

01:49:57 ◼   ► things they're spineless turds and

01:49:58 ◼   ► cowards I really really do not like them

01:50:01 ◼   ► but I also can't totally avoid their

01:50:04 ◼   ► services and retain like access to

01:50:07 ◼   ► certain information that I need and want

01:50:09 ◼   ► and you know the the joy and family and

01:50:14 ◼   ► friends connections I get through

01:50:16 ◼   ► Instagram so it's it's hard to avoid

01:50:20 ◼   ► it's it's not a simple thing it isn't it

01:50:23 ◼   ► isn't so simple to say like you know you

01:50:26 ◼   ► know are you being hypocritical by still

01:50:28 ◼   ► using it or you know why haven't you

01:50:29 ◼   ► quit yet like to a lot of people it's

01:50:31 ◼   ► more complicated than that and it's it

01:50:33 ◼   ► isn't it's a bigger calculus than just

01:50:36 ◼   ► like do you like these people or not

01:50:38 ◼   ► because I hate those people but I still

01:50:41 ◼   ► you know I've decided that the that like

01:50:44 ◼   ► the statement I would make by leaving is

01:50:46 ◼   ► too small to for the the cost it would

01:50:50 ◼   ► be to me in my life you call those

01:50:52 ◼   ► services too big to bail I guess

01:50:56 ◼   ► Wow I see what you did there that's

01:50:58 ◼   ► where you buy the cricket oh yeah

01:51:00 ◼   ► definitely not affect in there I think

01:51:01 ◼   ► that was quality commands you would like

01:51:04 ◼   ► you would like to get out of them but

01:51:05 ◼   ► they're just too big you can't convince

01:51:06 ◼   ► everybody um so two things one I'm going

01:51:10 ◼   ► to remind the world and the recording

01:51:13 ◼   ► that I'm speaking into to take credit

01:51:15 ◼   ► for the airline analogy you just make is

01:51:17 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I made that exact same

01:51:19 ◼   ► one a couple years ago although you

01:51:21 ◼   ► probably don't remember also I'm pretty

01:51:23 ◼   ► sure jar Mark made it before you yeah no

01:51:25 ◼   ► it's it's Turtles all the way down no I

01:51:33 ◼   ► mean like in real life not in a podcast

01:51:35 ◼   ► sometimes I say things that aren't

01:51:36 ◼   ► recorded on podcast did you really save

01:51:38 ◼   ► them then yeah this is not recording who

01:51:43 ◼   ► can tell and two I'm going to predict

01:51:46 ◼   ► that three weeks from now or so there

01:51:51 ◼   ► will be a podcast featuring me where I

01:51:54 ◼   ► talk about this very same issue at

01:51:55 ◼   ► length and so I'm not going to talk

01:51:57 ◼   ► about at length here so if you're

01:51:58 ◼   ► interested in hearing that discussion

01:52:00 ◼   ► that will probably happen sometime in

01:52:03 ◼   ► the next three weeks you can check out

01:52:05 ◼   ► reconcilable differences on real aid fm

01:52:07 ◼   ► I look forward to hearing that in six to

01:52:09 ◼   ► eight weeks erectus is by the way one of

01:52:13 ◼   ► my favorite podcasts in the entire world

01:52:14 ◼   ► I love that show so much yeah it's quite

01:52:16 ◼   ► good you really should be you the

01:52:18 ◼   ► listeners should really be listening to

01:52:19 ◼   ► that if you're not already and and not

01:52:21 ◼   ► unlike this show the shows do tend to

01:52:23 ◼   ► run a little long but they are worth

01:52:24 ◼   ► every damn minute so you should be

01:52:26 ◼   ► checking that out thanks to our sponsors

01:52:28 ◼   ► this week betterment Squarespace and

01:52:29 ◼   ► insta bug and we'll see you next week

01:52:34 ◼   ► now the show is over they didn't even

01:52:37 ◼   ► mean to begin because it was accidental

01:52:41 ◼   ► oh it was accidental johnny research

01:52:47 ◼   ► Margo and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it

01:52:50 ◼   ► was accidentally was accidental you can

01:52:56 ◼   ► find a CAS URL is Esther that's Casey

01:53:10 ◼   ► less and a are Co a RM auntie Marco

01:53:15 ◼   ► Arment

01:53:16 ◼   ► SI r AC USA Syracuse

01:53:27 ◼   ► a lot of people have been reaching out

01:53:38 ◼   ► and saying hey Casey have you thought

01:53:39 ◼   ► about the Kea stinger GT you should

01:53:42 ◼   ► think about it it's a nice car it's not

01:53:44 ◼   ► that nice it's nice be upset in it see

01:53:48 ◼   ► it in like the interior in d2 pedals but

01:53:51 ◼   ► otherwise if you you know other than

01:53:52 ◼   ► that mrs. Lincoln how did you enjoy the

01:53:54 ◼   ► play otherwise it sounds nice

01:53:56 ◼   ► it did ty BMW 340 I and in comparison

01:53:59 ◼   ► test which shows just how far BMWs

01:54:01 ◼   ► fallen I think I mentioned that in a

01:54:02 ◼   ► past show BMWs I actually occurred to me

01:54:06 ◼   ► just the other day I was saying this to

01:54:07 ◼   ► somebody shoot I don't remember who was

01:54:08 ◼   ► but it wasn't on a podcast I guess I

01:54:10 ◼   ► never said it I was walking back up the

01:54:14 ◼   ► driveway from getting the Mayall and I

01:54:16 ◼   ► looked at the garage and I looked at

01:54:18 ◼   ► Aaron's car and went to my car I looked

01:54:20 ◼   ► at my car for a while and it occurred to

01:54:24 ◼   ► me just a few years ago like especially

01:54:28 ◼   ► in 2013 for example when when Marco and

01:54:31 ◼   ► me and underscore went to the driving

01:54:33 ◼   ► school just a few years ago I would have

01:54:35 ◼   ► said I was pretty much equally into

01:54:38 ◼   ► Apple and BMW like that was during the

01:54:41 ◼   ► heyday of my BMW loved speaking of

01:54:42 ◼   ► heydays and I loved both of those brands

01:54:46 ◼   ► more than almost anything and I don't

01:54:50 ◼   ► really give a crap about BMW anymore I

01:54:52 ◼   ► feel like I've been so let down by this

01:54:54 ◼   ► one this one experience and I know I

01:54:57 ◼   ► shouldn't judge all BMWs forever more

01:54:59 ◼   ► based on one somewhat crummy almost

01:55:02 ◼   ► lemon but I just I can't find myself I

01:55:06 ◼   ► can't find myself getting excited by BMW

01:55:08 ◼   ► anymore yeah I'm also I mean I think I'm

01:55:11 ◼   ► in a very similar boat but may even

01:55:14 ◼   ► workstream like BMWs doesn't relevant to

01:55:16 ◼   ► me anymore like I you know when I moved

01:55:18 ◼   ► to Tesla like I didn't realize quite how

01:55:22 ◼   ► different it would be and quite how much

01:55:25 ◼   ► it would make all other cars

01:55:27 ◼   ► it's just seem like the past by

01:55:29 ◼   ► comparison in multiple ways not just the

01:55:31 ◼   ► drivetrain but like you know like the

01:55:33 ◼   ► just hat you know that the big

01:55:34 ◼   ► touchscreen having the some of the more

01:55:37 ◼   ► like smart useful little features the

01:55:41 ◼   ► app features some of

01:55:42 ◼   ► the the practicalities of just like the

01:55:44 ◼   ► giant hatchback and how much space how

01:55:46 ◼   ► much cargo space there isn't it it's

01:55:48 ◼   ► super nice like yesterday I brought I

01:55:51 ◼   ► had a flat tire my bike it had to get a

01:55:55 ◼   ► new inner tube but I don't know how to

01:55:56 ◼   ► do that so I brought my bike to the

01:55:58 ◼   ► store in town to have them do it and I

01:56:01 ◼   ► fit this giant you know 27.5 Plus

01:56:05 ◼   ► semi-fat bike in the back of my car and

01:56:07 ◼   ► as I was

01:56:08 ◼   ► I opened the open the truck it doesn't

01:56:10 ◼   ► fit with a lot of leeway but it does fit

01:56:11 ◼   ► and like I open the trunk when I got

01:56:15 ◼   ► there like parked in the street and I

01:56:16 ◼   ► pulled this giant bike out there's this

01:56:18 ◼   ► I'm like wow you just pulled that out of

01:56:21 ◼   ► that car like it's so nice anyway yeah I

01:56:25 ◼   ► I kind of have the a similar feeling of

01:56:29 ◼   ► like like I have no interest in like go

01:56:31 ◼   ► on a test drive the new m5 or anything

01:56:33 ◼   ► like that like and that's why it's one

01:56:35 ◼   ► of the reasons why it was so hard for me

01:56:36 ◼   ► to answer that question a few weeks ago

01:56:37 ◼   ► of like you know what car would you have

01:56:39 ◼   ► if you couldn't have you know this

01:56:41 ◼   ► thing's the Tesla like I I really have

01:56:44 ◼   ► no idea I'm not interested in any other

01:56:46 ◼   ► cars at all and you know again maybe

01:56:49 ◼   ► that will change in the future you know

01:56:51 ◼   ► when there's more electric options from

01:56:52 ◼   ► everybody but honestly I don't

01:56:54 ◼   ► anticipate that changing in the near

01:56:56 ◼   ► future I think it's what we're gonna be

01:56:57 ◼   ► a far future thing but anyway I I'm

01:57:01 ◼   ► totally with you like what BMW the

01:57:04 ◼   ► direction they've gone in has has

01:57:06 ◼   ► seemingly been you know significantly

01:57:07 ◼   ► more mass luxury market like obviously

01:57:10 ◼   ► going after a lot of what were probably

01:57:12 ◼   ► formerly Alexis customers and you know

01:57:17 ◼   ► that a lot of that came at the cost of

01:57:18 ◼   ► the enthusiasts Joby's not gonna get any

01:57:22 ◼   ► like Cisco surahs lesson customers need

01:57:23 ◼   ► reliability they're going after Mercedes

01:57:25 ◼   ► customers reliability but want a softer

01:57:28 ◼   ► car yeah that's fair yeah but it was

01:57:31 ◼   ► kind of funny that like kind of like the

01:57:33 ◼   ► the decline of BMWs appeal to us has

01:57:37 ◼   ► correspondant somewhat to the decline of

01:57:40 ◼   ► Apple's appeal to us it's kind of sad

01:57:42 ◼   ► really

01:57:43 ◼   ► hi you took them you took my moment cuz

01:57:45 ◼   ► I was about to say the same that was

01:57:46 ◼   ► obvious you can't blame me for that but

01:57:49 ◼   ► still but nah right you can have any but

01:57:51 ◼   ► I mean I shouldn't cut you off it Here I

01:57:53 ◼   ► am so since I have I feel of

01:57:56 ◼   ► very similarly but way way way less so

01:57:59 ◼   ► about Apple that there are things that

01:58:02 ◼   ► are annoying me about Apple that never

01:58:05 ◼   ► used to annoy me you know and will and

01:58:07 ◼   ► I'll beat up on Siri just briefly

01:58:08 ◼   ► because that's the most obvious example

01:58:10 ◼   ► like you know anytime I go to use Siri

01:58:12 ◼   ► I'm just died a little inside not

01:58:15 ◼   ► literally of course that's a bit what

01:58:17 ◼   ► support I'm looking for hyperbolic I

01:58:18 ◼   ► don't whatever anyway it's a bit extreme

01:58:20 ◼   ► but but nevertheless it's like it annoys

01:58:24 ◼   ► me every time in a way that Apple stuff

01:58:25 ◼   ► used to delight me every time

01:58:27 ◼   ► consistently that I touched it and and I

01:58:30 ◼   ► feel you know I feel like it's this

01:58:33 ◼   ► vector is the same direction but a far

01:58:36 ◼   ► smaller magnitude that I'm getting I'm

01:58:40 ◼   ► finding myself not is emotionally like

01:58:44 ◼   ► excited by Apple stuff as I was in the

01:58:47 ◼   ► past now there are exceptions like just

01:58:49 ◼   ► the other day I looked down at my iPhone

01:58:50 ◼   ► 10 and I was like you know what this is

01:58:52 ◼   ► a really awesome phone and having that

01:58:56 ◼   ► swipe gesture has made everything better

01:58:58 ◼   ► and in the lack of a home button like

01:59:00 ◼   ► face ID still does drive me nuts in a

01:59:02 ◼   ► few hey he's put by and large it's so

01:59:05 ◼   ► cool and so I'm not trying to say that

01:59:06 ◼   ► I've like lost hope and Apple by any

01:59:08 ◼   ► means but and certainly the alternatives

01:59:10 ◼   ► that's we've gone around and around

01:59:11 ◼   ► about numerous times on the show the

01:59:13 ◼   ► alternatives are not really alternatives

01:59:15 ◼   ► but but nevertheless I I find myself

01:59:19 ◼   ► getting similarly disappoint yeah I'm

01:59:23 ◼   ► not mad I'm disappointed in you Apple

01:59:24 ◼   ► and and that's that's a bummer because

01:59:27 ◼   ► it's I mean it's just a company right

01:59:29 ◼   ► like it and here again like have to come

01:59:30 ◼   ► back to the SKT P about sports like

01:59:32 ◼   ► Apple is kind of my team and Marco I'm

01:59:35 ◼   ► definitely taking a page out of your

01:59:36 ◼   ► PlayBook on that one cuz you've made

01:59:37 ◼   ► this point for years that Apple was kind

01:59:39 ◼   ► of your team and I feel like my team

01:59:41 ◼   ► isn't it's not a slump that's that's

01:59:43 ◼   ► dramatic but my team is not winning

01:59:46 ◼   ► championships left and right like they

01:59:47 ◼   ► used to be and that's that's a little

01:59:49 ◼   ► bit of a bummer

01:59:50 ◼   ► yeah and it's I think it's especially

01:59:53 ◼   ► it's a little depressing when you don't

01:59:56 ◼   ► have something else to replace that

01:59:56 ◼   ► have something else to replace that

00:00:00 ◼   ► it's gonna be long you know long drive

00:00:02 ◼   ► but I bought walkie-talkies so that we

00:00:04 ◼   ► could be like Top Gear stuff ain't gonna

00:00:08 ◼   ► find out how crappy walkie-talkies are

00:00:10 ◼   ► compared to modern digital cell network

00:00:11 ◼   ► yep

00:00:12 ◼   ► just start calling each other yeah but

00:00:14 ◼   ► they're really fast like that something

00:00:15 ◼   ► like you just push a button and talk

00:00:16 ◼   ► that's like no linear static type type

00:00:18 ◼   ► type you know I got decent ones right

00:00:22 ◼   ► when I said the modern digital cell

00:00:23 ◼   ► network I meant with the voice like you

00:00:26 ◼   ► do you know you're you can talk into

00:00:27 ◼   ► your phone oh yeah no one does that

00:00:30 ◼   ► I'm just saying you can call people on

00:00:33 ◼   ► it try it

00:00:33 ◼   ► no oh how we miss the days of the Nextel

00:00:37 ◼   ► push-to-talk

00:00:38 ◼   ► yeah no it's not it's not push-to-talk

00:00:40 ◼   ► if you just leave the call connected all

00:00:41 ◼   ► the time you don't even have to push you

00:00:45 ◼   ► set up a WebEx in each car Jesus now

00:00:48 ◼   ► definitely going to bed

00:00:50 ◼   ► Damien Shaw writes Google home allows

00:00:53 ◼   ► for both compound commands and

00:00:54 ◼   ► context-sensitive commands I do this all

00:00:56 ◼   ► the time quote play something and set

00:00:59 ◼   ► volume to five it gets it every time and

00:01:01 ◼   ► quote Google what's the weather in San

00:01:04 ◼   ► Diego - I just said it oh well sorry

00:01:05 ◼   ► people

00:01:06 ◼   ► hey cylinder what's the weather in San

00:01:08 ◼   ► Diego today a few seconds later

00:01:10 ◼   ► hey cylinder what about tomorrow and at

00:01:12 ◼   ► all that also always works for Damian

00:01:15 ◼   ► Shaw yeah I mean this was my bad because

00:01:17 ◼   ► I said last episode that none of the

00:01:18 ◼   ► cylinder supported multiple commands in

00:01:21 ◼   ► one sentence I'm not talking about a

00:01:23 ◼   ► follow up like afterwards I'm talking

00:01:25 ◼   ► about like play Weezer and the volume to

00:01:28 ◼   ► five or you know make a pasta time or

00:01:30 ◼   ► five minutes and a sauce timer for 20

00:01:32 ◼   ► minutes like stuff like that like that's

00:01:33 ◼   ► having all that be in one command and I

00:01:36 ◼   ► don't even know it did anybody say if it

00:01:38 ◼   ► can do multiple name timers I don't even

00:01:39 ◼   ► know anyway it doesn't matter it

00:01:41 ◼   ► apparently Google home can do it with

00:01:43 ◼   ► certain commands so oh well I made a

00:01:45 ◼   ► mistake

00:01:46 ◼   ► I wish Siri and the Amazon service would

00:01:49 ◼   ► add this that's and this was in the

00:01:52 ◼   ► content of Amazon adding there

00:01:53 ◼   ► they're like follow up listening feature

00:01:55 ◼   ► to the echo of like it'll it'll listen

00:01:57 ◼   ► for a few seconds after you give after

00:02:00 ◼   ► it does a command to see if you have any

00:02:01 ◼   ► more to say like you know that's that's

00:02:03 ◼   ► a BS non feature but multiple command

00:02:06 ◼   ► support in one sentence is a great

00:02:08 ◼   ► feature and something that we've

00:02:10 ◼   ► definitely needed I thought nobody had

00:02:11 ◼   ► it turns out Google has it done

00:02:13 ◼   ► so the thing about these cylinders is

00:02:17 ◼   ► like they don't really have a

00:02:18 ◼   ► particularly discoverable interface

00:02:19 ◼   ► that's one of the reasons that Amazon

00:02:21 ◼   ► emails you all the time to tell you all

00:02:23 ◼   ► the new things that you can do with your

00:02:24 ◼   ► cylinder because otherwise how would you

00:02:26 ◼   ► know like it just sits there you know it

00:02:27 ◼   ► doesn't it has no apparent way to

00:02:29 ◼   ► communicate to you that it is now has it

00:02:31 ◼   ► now has a new capability on this topic

00:02:34 ◼   ► are you sure Marko that your Amazon

00:02:36 ◼   ► cylinder can't do compound commands like

00:02:38 ◼   ► when's the last time you tried that's a

00:02:40 ◼   ► reasonable question I don't I guess I'm

00:02:42 ◼   ► not sure I I'd the last time I tried was

00:02:44 ◼   ► probably months ago and May they could

00:02:46 ◼   ► have added it last week I don't I don't

00:02:47 ◼   ► actually read those emails I think I

00:02:49 ◼   ► might have done multiple timers in one