507: It Sucks, Doesn't It?
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I am here on time in part thanks to a product
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that I never thought I would use before,
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a rapid tire deflator.
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- Isn't that just called a knife?
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- Yeah, right. (laughs)
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- I think a knife is the most rapid tire deflator,
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but unfortunately that makes it difficult
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to use the tire afterwards.
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I first got this when I first started driving on the beach
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because you're supposed to air down your tires
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down to like the 20 PSI-ish range
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when you're driving on the sand here
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to keep things, not only to keep yourself from getting stuck
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but to keep yourself from tearing up the beach too much
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unnecessarily and tearing up some of the routes.
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- Oh, I just realized, now that I've been thinking
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about this, it sucks, doesn't it?
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- 'Cause that's the only way it could work, right?
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Go on, go on.
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- So anyway, so I frequently have to change my tire pressure
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in both directions between like 20-ish
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and like, you know, 40-ish PSI.
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If I'm going on a long highway drive,
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I wanna put it up to about 40
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just for additional rigidity and safety
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and a little bit of efficiency.
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Although it's a giant box. - Whoa, slow down.
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- Like it's not gonna be that efficient, but you know.
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- How did you land on 40?
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- It, well the car wants me to do 50,
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and I think that's dumb, so I get impatient
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and stop after 30. - No way it wants 50 pounds.
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- Is that what it says on the door jamb?
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- Thank you, Jon.
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- I think it says 45 or 48 on the door jamb.
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- Is this a case where Casey asked to Google
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for the PDF of your car manual again?
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- Yes, either way the-- - Seriously.
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- What year is your car?
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It's a Land Rover Defender, what year?
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- I will solve this.
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So, and it has, like, the one that happened to be
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on the dealer lot in the color I wanted
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has this optional accessory of an onboard
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inflator deflator thing, which is really fun.
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It's in the trunk and you come to this big hose,
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you reach all four tires.
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So it's fun, it's just slow.
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And so I haven't found a rapid tire inflator yet,
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besides, you know, I don't know, a bomb,
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but a rapid tire deflator is this thing that,
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Again, I'll put it in the show notes
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when I'll find the link and dig it up.
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But it's this weird little contraption that normally,
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if you wanna deflate it as higher quickly,
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you can do a compressor that just kinda like
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holds the valve in and lets air out.
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Or you can poke the valve stem with a coin or a key
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or something if you wanna do it that way.
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But what this thing does is it screws onto the valve
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stem thing and then there's an inner thing that you twist
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once it's screwed onto the valve,
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you twist this inner thing the opposite direction
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and it unscrews the inner valve stem
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and lets it pop out inside of itself
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and then you just pop a thing and it just,
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psh, lets huge amounts of air out.
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It can go from 40 PSI to 20 PSI in 20 seconds.
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It's massively fast.
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- I find this very alarming.
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So I could be, yeah, it doesn't suck.
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- Yes, it just basically disassembles
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your tire valve temporarily,
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and I was able to deflate all four of my tires
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from 40 to 20 in less than five minutes.
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It was shockingly fast. (laughs)
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So anyway, I don't know who needs this product
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besides a very small handful of people,
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but if you are one of those handful of people,
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this is amazing.
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Check it out. (laughs)
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- Why is it so difficult for me to find
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the owner's manual for this car?
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Why is this like state secrets?
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I will say this is actually gonna be
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the KCEO's Marco apology tour episode apparently,
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but according to a spot of Googling,
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it was, I found a very unofficial looking site
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that said it was like 47 or 50 pounds,
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which is what you said to your credit,
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and I said no frickin' way.
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But I'm trying to find the actual owner's manual,
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and I can't.
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- So one thing, it lets you kind of customize
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the different sections of the dashboard
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to a few different selections,
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and I want a constant display on the left side
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of the four tire pressures.
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There is no option for that.
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However, if it's below the recommended pressure,
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it puts it up there by default
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until you click a certain button.
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And because mine are always below the,
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this is why I know the recommendation is higher than 40,
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mine are always below the recommendation.
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And so because of that,
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as long as I don't hit this one button,
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it's displaying the four tire pressures all the time,
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which is a nice little accidental feature,
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but I'm really enjoying it.
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- Well, I owe you an apology.
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I am apparently very wrong.
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Oh wait, okay, oh no wait, I found it, but it's not a PDF.
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Just give me a friggin' PDF!
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God, I hate everything.
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(electronic beeping)
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- So, before we get into topics,
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I wanna start this episode also
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with a public service announcement.
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If you know people in your life with Apple Watches,
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in the most kind way possible,
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if you see them using an Apple Watch face
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that has complications, you will blow their mind
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If at some opportune time,
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if they're open to such suggestions,
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you tell them, hey, by the way,
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you know you can change what those are.
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So in my experience, I have a bunch of friends
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who are kind of nerdy,
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who they're nerdy enough to get an Apple Watch,
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and they're nerdy enough to care about it being good,
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but not nerdy enough to be able to know some of that stuff,
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like you can customize the face and all the complications.
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And I've shown a couple of people this
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in the last couple of weeks,
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And these are people who've worn an Apple Watch for years.
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And every time, I'll see that they're using
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the Infograph modular face, it's full of complications.
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And the default set is like, it's okay,
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you know, you got a weather, okay,
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then you got the compass, like eh, it's like how you,
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you know, there's a couple things on there
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I think most people wouldn't use.
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And sometimes they'll see mine, they're like,
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oh, what face is that?
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'Cause mine's of course all customized.
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And when I show them, like hey, you can hold down here,
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swipe over, and then you can change every single one
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of those to all these different things.
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Everyone's like, oh my god, it changes their,
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it blows their mind.
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They're so amazed.
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No one knows that you can customize watch faces,
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especially complications.
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So just PSA, if someone you know uses a face
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with complications and you see that they're all the defaults
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'cause they usually are, again, some opportune time,
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don't be like the annoying nerd like, you know,
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like you know, at some nice time, be like, hey, by the way,
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you know you can change that and here's how
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and show them how.
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You can also show them that they can have multiple faces
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they can swipe between really easily.
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No one knows that either.
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And both of those things I have had
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very strong positive reactions to when I have shown people.
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- As a non-Apple Watch wearer who does know
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that you can change complications,
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every time I try to change complications
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on someone else's Apple Watch for them,
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I have to like refigure out how to do it.
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It is not an obvious UI,
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so I don't really blame people for not,
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I mean, I kinda blame them for not knowing it's possible,
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but even when you know it's possible,
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it's not obvious how to do it
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if you haven't done it recently.
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- Yeah, exactly.
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Like so many things about touchscreen discoverability,
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like it's so much worse on the watch
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'cause it's such a small screen.
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- It is way worse on the watch 'cause there's just nothing.
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There's nothing there for you.
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And I think the, sort of the credit
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to the original Apple design,
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having two things that you can press,
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the button and the crown both press in,
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does add to the number of possibilities
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of things that I have to blindly try
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before I figure out how to work things.
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And then of course, oh, I forgot,
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you can turn the ground too.
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And it's like, it's just,
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I go through the same little dance every time I do it.
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It's ridiculous.
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- Do you know Marco, if you have 18, 19, 20 or 22 inch rims?
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- Then 47 pounds up front, 50 in the back.
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- Bam. - I am wrong.
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I have never seen tire pressures that high.
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- It's 'cause they're big tires, right?
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- I mean, I guess.
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- Yeah, they're pretty big.
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- Yeah, I did eventually find it because Google,
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not because of Land Rover site,
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which as I've heard is trash.
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- But hey, you know what is not trash?
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What is not trash is ATP merch,
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which is available right now, baby, at ATP.fm/store.
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So, you know how every time I say,
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"Oh, you really gotta order quick
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"'cause you never know if something's gonna sell out, huh?
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"You never know."
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Well, guess what?
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It's happened.
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Chicken hats, boom, gone.
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Second run of chicken hats,
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which we did like under duress, boom, gone.
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Pint glasses, gone.
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You snooze, you lose.
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No sympathy from me.
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This is what you get.
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You had sympathy from the other two, not from me.
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I warned you, I warned you.
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We did the visualization exercise,
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which I'm pretty sure I stole from Mike Hurley.
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We did the exercise together.
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You still didn't order, and this is on you.
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But for those that haven't ordered
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and would still like lovely, excellent, delightful merch,
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we still have M2 shirts in colored and monochrome versions.
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We have the classic ATP logo shirt.
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we have the utterly delightful ATP hoodie, all available.
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So if you're interested, and you should be,
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go to ATP.fm/store, and you can buy any of these three,
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four items, the two different varieties of shirt,
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well, three if you include the ATP one and the hoodie,
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all available.
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And remember, members, if you are a member,
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and you can become a member at ATP.fm/join,
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then you get 15% off.
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You can get your bespoke discount code on your member page.
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It's all linked from ATP.fm/store.
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Go get yourself some treats.
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treat yourself, you deserve a treat,
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you deserve several treats, treat yourself,
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treat your friends, treat your husband,
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treat your wife, treat everybody, ATP.fm/store.
00:09:12
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- Couple more items on the store.
00:09:15
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Reminder about the monochrome M2 shirt,
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it just shows like a blue shirt with white,
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but it comes in a whole bunch of different colors.
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So if you know, the regular M2 one,
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the really expensive one with the color stripes
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just comes in black, but this other one comes in like red,
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purple, green, pink, teal,
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so check out the different colors,
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think a lot of them look really good.
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Second thing, if you, for one of the sold out items,
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chicken hat, pint glass, or mug, all three of which,
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I specifically warned you about last week
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as the ones that would sell it first.
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And they did in the order that I said.
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- Wait, in all fairness, before we rag on people
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too hard on this, which Casey already did,
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you do have some sympathy for me because, like,
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the first batch of the chicken hats,
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it was like halfway gone before we even published
00:09:56
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the episode, just from bootleg listeners.
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- Yeah, that is true, that is true.
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- We ordered, we guessed wrong on the demand
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for the chicken hat, that's on us.
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But we did do a second order,
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and we did a second order for more than twice
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the amount of the first order, and that sold out too.
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- Yeah, as much as I'm snarking earlier,
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that is 100% accurate, and that is 100% on us,
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that we clearly underestimate, which is lovely,
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and actually a heck of a compliment
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from our wonderful listeners.
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It was a complete miss on our part.
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We thought nobody would be interested in a hat
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that we presented as something that John bought
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20 years ago and really likes, but it turns out--
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- And it's weird shaped. - And it's weird shaped.
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- But it turns out the poll of John Siracusen
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has no bounds, knows no bounds.
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- Morbid curiosity is what I would call it.
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But anyway, related to the sold out items,
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if you go, they're still on the store page,
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they just put like sold out text on them,
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but you can still click through on them.
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Click the little buy link, click the name,
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click the image, like anyway, click through to the item.
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It has a button on the store that says bring it back.
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It's just cotton beer is like normal,
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like hey, I want this even though it's not in stock.
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If you still want a hat, a pint glass, or a mug,
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click through on it and then click the bring it back thing.
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it makes you enter the email address
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'cause they wanna email you when it comes back in stock.
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And I know that's annoying,
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but Cotton Bureau is good with email.
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That's how we knew, sort of,
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that's how we gauge demand
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for the second order of chicken hats
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based on how many people click the bring it back link
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and enter an email address.
00:11:17
◼
►
And that gave us a rough estimate
00:11:18
◼
►
of how many people probably wanted them.
00:11:19
◼
►
And I think we got it pretty close
00:11:20
◼
►
'cause towards the end of selling out of the chicken hats,
00:11:23
◼
►
the sales were really slowing down.
00:11:25
◼
►
It was like just a real trick alike.
00:11:27
◼
►
The number wouldn't move at all for like hours at a time.
00:11:29
◼
►
So I think we kind of mostly met demand,
00:11:31
◼
►
but we're not entirely sure.
00:11:32
◼
►
And the mugs we did a new order of,
00:11:34
◼
►
and the pint glass we were just selling through an old order.
00:11:36
◼
►
So in order for us to have a better idea for the next sale,
00:11:41
◼
►
how much demand there is for this stuff,
00:11:43
◼
►
you can use that bring it back button,
00:11:45
◼
►
and it just ticks up a counter
00:11:47
◼
►
that we can see on our internal dashboards
00:11:48
◼
►
to know how many people are actually interested
00:11:50
◼
►
in this again.
00:11:51
◼
►
So that's my suggestion there.
00:11:53
◼
►
And then finally,
00:11:54
◼
►
lots of people are sending pictures of the chicken hats.
00:11:56
◼
►
If you ordered it, especially if you were in the first batch,
00:11:58
◼
►
you might get them already.
00:11:59
◼
►
I already got my chicken hat,
00:12:00
◼
►
and lots of people are getting them,
00:12:02
◼
►
'cause the things that are in stock,
00:12:03
◼
►
I think, I'm not sure about the mugs and the pint glasses,
00:12:05
◼
►
but certainly the hats,
00:12:06
◼
►
they just ship them as soon as they get them.
00:12:07
◼
►
The other ones we have to wait until the campaign is over
00:12:09
◼
►
so they know how many they have to print
00:12:11
◼
►
'cause they're gonna make them
00:12:12
◼
►
based on how many people order them.
00:12:14
◼
►
Anyway, people are sending me pictures
00:12:15
◼
►
of them wearing the chicken hat.
00:12:17
◼
►
Bad on us for not including instructions with the hat
00:12:19
◼
►
and far be it for me to tell you how to wear hats.
00:12:24
◼
►
And I was like, yeah, you put it on your head.
00:12:25
◼
►
People are getting that far.
00:12:27
◼
►
But part of the reason it's called a chicken hat
00:12:29
◼
►
is 'cause it looks a little bit like
00:12:31
◼
►
the little thing on top of a chicken or a rooster's head,
00:12:34
◼
►
the little floppy thing.
00:12:35
◼
►
- The little mohawk thing?
00:12:37
◼
►
- Yeah, and that mohawk thing,
00:12:39
◼
►
it's like a vertical fin that goes from front to back.
00:12:41
◼
►
That's how, I'm not gonna say supposed to be warm,
00:12:44
◼
►
but that's how I wear the chicken hat,
00:12:46
◼
►
is front to back, like a shark fin, right?
00:12:50
◼
►
And then second thing to know is,
00:12:52
◼
►
this hat, although it's pretty uniform,
00:12:54
◼
►
it does have a seam.
00:12:56
◼
►
Like there is a seam down one part,
00:12:57
◼
►
and the seam goes in the back,
00:12:59
◼
►
like most items of clothing that have a seam.
00:13:01
◼
►
The seam goes in the back,
00:13:03
◼
►
which means that the little ATP tag
00:13:05
◼
►
is also more towards the back.
00:13:07
◼
►
Originally, we wanted that tag to be in the front,
00:13:09
◼
►
but they made the first batch of them with them on the back,
00:13:11
◼
►
and then seeing people put them on their heads,
00:13:15
◼
►
and especially with glasses,
00:13:16
◼
►
the tag, when it's on the front,
00:13:17
◼
►
kind of interferes with the glasses
00:13:19
◼
►
and messes up the line of the thing.
00:13:21
◼
►
So we made the second batch.
00:13:22
◼
►
I said, "Put the tag in the back.
00:13:23
◼
►
I think it looks better there."
00:13:24
◼
►
But everybody who I see wearing this online
00:13:26
◼
►
thinks the tag goes in the front,
00:13:27
◼
►
And it can, like it's a uniform hat, it's a single color.
00:13:30
◼
►
No one's gonna see that the seam is in the front.
00:13:32
◼
►
But technically the seam goes in the back
00:13:34
◼
►
and the hat goes vertically forward and backwards.
00:13:37
◼
►
You wanna wear it any other way, feel free.
00:13:39
◼
►
It's your hat, you can do whatever you want with it,
00:13:41
◼
►
but I'm just saying for the, if you're wondering,
00:13:43
◼
►
how does Jon wear his chicken hat?
00:13:45
◼
►
I wear it chicken style, like a dorsal fin
00:13:49
◼
►
with the seam in the back.
00:13:51
◼
►
- All right, we got a lot to talk about.
00:13:53
◼
►
Let's do some follow up.
00:13:54
◼
►
I need to continue my apology tour for Marco.
00:13:57
◼
►
Apparently based on our feedback freaking nobody knew how to use the AirPods Pro 2 volume control
00:14:04
◼
►
Vindicated. Yeah, I assumed that this was obvious. I do not have Pro 2. I only have the the
00:14:10
◼
►
pedestrian original OG AirPods Pro
00:14:13
◼
►
And I just assumed this was pretty self-explanatory and wow did I assume wrong because we got a lot of very kind feedback saying
00:14:20
◼
►
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for telling me how to do this. I had no idea
00:14:24
◼
►
So Marco, first of all, I'm sorry because I think I was snickering in your general direction
00:14:29
◼
►
last week and saying, "Oh my gosh, are you serious?"
00:14:31
◼
►
And it turns out I was wrong.
00:14:33
◼
►
Second of all, would you mind reiterating, since we brought it up again, can you just
00:14:36
◼
►
quickly reiterate how is it that you control the volume on an AirPods Pro 2, please?
00:14:42
◼
►
So you don't use two different fingers in motion, as I was doing, like front and back
00:14:47
◼
►
kind of, you know, doing something to it.
00:14:51
◼
►
You don't do that.
00:14:53
◼
►
Instead, you put the thumb of your hand
00:14:56
◼
►
on the back of the stem to hold it in place,
00:14:58
◼
►
and with your index finger, you swipe up or down
00:15:02
◼
►
on the front flat part of the stick
00:15:05
◼
►
to change it up and down.
00:15:06
◼
►
And you know you did it because only that AirPod
00:15:09
◼
►
will make a little click sound out of that ear
00:15:12
◼
►
to confirm that you did it.
00:15:14
◼
►
And so my mistake was moving both fingers.
00:15:16
◼
►
What you're supposed to do is support it with one finger
00:15:19
◼
►
and swipe with the other.
00:15:20
◼
►
- Yep, so my apologies, Marco,
00:15:22
◼
►
you were right to bring it up and I was wrong.
00:15:25
◼
►
- I am so happy, so many people wrote in
00:15:27
◼
►
and were like, yeah, I didn't know how to do it either,
00:15:28
◼
►
or I've been doing it wrong, I also wrote it off.
00:15:31
◼
►
I'm so vindicated, I thought I was the only one.
00:15:33
◼
►
I felt so dumb when I finally figured it out.
00:15:36
◼
►
That's why I wrote it up on the show,
00:15:38
◼
►
to be like, hopefully somebody else can feel less dumb
00:15:42
◼
►
by this, and sure enough, many people now feel less dumb.
00:15:45
◼
►
So mission accomplished. - Dozens, dozens.
00:15:47
◼
►
- Yes. - And hearing your
00:15:48
◼
►
complication story, I wonder if the people
00:15:49
◼
►
who didn't know that you could adjust the volume
00:15:51
◼
►
by swiping and were just too embarrassed to write in.
00:15:54
◼
►
- You can change complications?
00:15:57
◼
►
- You can change, well, and keep in mind,
00:15:58
◼
►
this volume thing only works on the AirPods Pro 2.
00:16:02
◼
►
It doesn't work on the AirPods 3,
00:16:04
◼
►
it doesn't work on the original AirPods Pro,
00:16:05
◼
►
even though they all look kinda similar.
00:16:07
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Linode,
00:16:11
◼
►
my favorite place to run servers.
00:16:12
◼
►
Visit linode.com/ATP and see why so many people,
00:16:16
◼
►
including us, use Linode to host our servers.
00:16:20
◼
►
I run a lot of servers.
00:16:23
◼
►
And Linode makes it super easy.
00:16:24
◼
►
They're all at Linode.
00:16:26
◼
►
I've moved off of all of their hosts
00:16:27
◼
►
over the last few years because Linode is by far the best.
00:16:30
◼
►
They even have other services now,
00:16:32
◼
►
things like an S3 compatible object storage,
00:16:35
◼
►
which I'm also now using.
00:16:36
◼
►
They have managed load balancers, managed backups.
00:16:39
◼
►
They also now have managed databases.
00:16:41
◼
►
I'm not using those yet,
00:16:42
◼
►
but those are very tempting, honestly.
00:16:43
◼
►
So Linode is great.
00:16:45
◼
►
They're an amazing web host to run servers
00:16:47
◼
►
and all these different managed services they now offer.
00:16:49
◼
►
And they have amazing support, amazing capabilities,
00:16:52
◼
►
huge variation in things like resource levels
00:16:55
◼
►
and what you're concentrating on for your resources
00:16:58
◼
►
so you can have like high memory or high CPU
00:17:00
◼
►
or GPU compute plans.
00:17:02
◼
►
All of that in so much variety.
00:17:03
◼
►
And what really is great about Linode
00:17:06
◼
►
is that you get all of that at incredible value.
00:17:09
◼
►
This is why I got there in the first place
00:17:11
◼
►
almost a decade ago.
00:17:12
◼
►
And that has kept me there all this time
00:17:14
◼
►
because I have not found a better value
00:17:16
◼
►
in the hosting business.
00:17:18
◼
►
At all times, I've been with them,
00:17:19
◼
►
again, for almost a decade now,
00:17:21
◼
►
they have been either the cheapest
00:17:23
◼
►
or tied for the cheapest for anything I'm looking to get.
00:17:26
◼
►
And I have a lot of stuff there,
00:17:28
◼
►
so that really adds up.
00:17:29
◼
►
And so I'm just super happy at Linode.
00:17:31
◼
►
I strongly recommend,
00:17:32
◼
►
whether you're gonna spend five bucks a month
00:17:34
◼
►
for a really basic VPS kind of server,
00:17:36
◼
►
or whether you're really going in
00:17:37
◼
►
and making some really big stuff,
00:17:39
◼
►
Linode scales with you.
00:17:40
◼
►
They offer the same great support,
00:17:42
◼
►
no matter how much money you're spending with them.
00:17:43
◼
►
It's a great server host and they have a whole API
00:17:47
◼
►
and everything, it's amazing being a Linode customer.
00:17:49
◼
►
See for yourself, linode.com/atp.
00:17:52
◼
►
Create a free account, they only get $100 in credit.
00:17:55
◼
►
Once again, linode.com/atp,
00:17:57
◼
►
run all your cloud stuff at Linode.
00:17:59
◼
►
Thank you so much to Linode for hosting all my servers
00:18:02
◼
►
and sponsoring our show.
00:18:03
◼
►
- I have a little bit of news about my beloved,
00:18:09
◼
►
don't call it a park bench picnic table.
00:18:12
◼
►
Went there to do a little bit of work today because it was very nice staying here in Richmond
00:18:15
◼
►
It's just a touch chilly but not too bad and I was all slick with myself
00:18:18
◼
►
I was all excited because I've got my fancy pants new iPad Pro
00:18:22
◼
►
It's got 5g it can support 5g ultra wideband by Verizon, baby. I'm ready
00:18:28
◼
►
Except I got there and my phone, you know took a few seconds when my phone shows 5g uw 5g ultra wideband
00:18:36
◼
►
I am ready to rock on the phone
00:18:38
◼
►
The iPad says you got 5g
00:18:41
◼
►
So I wait a little bit still got 5g
00:18:43
◼
►
Wait a little bit kind of diddle around on the iPad a little bit
00:18:46
◼
►
You know do a fast.com text test just to see if that would kick it into like, you know
00:18:50
◼
►
high gear or whatever and I look and it's
00:18:53
◼
►
Still just 5g. Oh, no, did your phone work on it? Yeah. Oh, yeah, my phone was fine. My phone was good to go
00:19:00
◼
►
So, okay what's going on here? Remember that this has a physical SIM
00:19:05
◼
►
I was briefly confused by this when I did the transfer because I was waiting for it to transfer the eSIM
00:19:10
◼
►
that wasn't an eSIM. But anyways, so I get on the Verizon chat, which while annoying,
00:19:15
◼
►
has actually got a pretty high success rate, their online chat, for getting me an answer
00:19:21
◼
►
and/or getting me what I want. You know, I got my cable card through the online chat.
00:19:26
◼
►
That mostly worked. I've done a lot of stuff via the online chat, and so I get on the online
00:19:30
◼
►
chat and I did that thing you should never do, and I kind of led with, "Do I need a new
00:19:35
◼
►
SIM card, you know, is the SIM card which was, you know, originally in an iPad that
00:19:39
◼
►
did not support 5G, it only supported LTE, does the SIM card perhaps not have whatever
00:19:45
◼
►
magic bit flipped or whatever it may need in order to get 5G Ultra Wideband?
00:19:51
◼
►
And after a considerable amount of time waiting for the person that was surely helping 35
00:19:56
◼
►
other people, it turns out that there are multiple iPad plans in Verizon.
00:20:01
◼
►
The one that I have is normally $20 a month,
00:20:04
◼
►
but because of my phone's plan,
00:20:06
◼
►
I only pay $10 a month for it, it's half off.
00:20:08
◼
►
And that gives me 5G, and it gives me 15 gigs of data,
00:20:12
◼
►
of quote unquote premium data,
00:20:15
◼
►
which I guess means basically you get 15 gigs
00:20:17
◼
►
and they start to throttle you.
00:20:18
◼
►
But if I want ultra wide band, I need to go to $30 a month,
00:20:23
◼
►
which I think would only be five bucks more for me,
00:20:25
◼
►
'cause I think all of the iPad plans are half off,
00:20:27
◼
►
but I gotta do some research on this.
00:20:28
◼
►
Anyway, so strictly speaking, $30 a month,
00:20:31
◼
►
Then I can get my 5G Ultra Wideband
00:20:33
◼
►
and I go from 15 gigs of premium data to 30 gigs.
00:20:37
◼
►
So I gotta confirm,
00:20:39
◼
►
'cause this is not worth an additional $10 a month,
00:20:42
◼
►
'cause remember, my plan is supposed to be 20,
00:20:45
◼
►
I pay 10 because of the way I have my phone set up.
00:20:48
◼
►
I would pay probably $5 more a month for this
00:20:50
◼
►
because darn it, I want my Ultra Wideband,
00:20:52
◼
►
that's the whole point, man.
00:20:53
◼
►
But I don't think I would pay 10 more dollars for this,
00:20:55
◼
►
so I gotta figure out what the story is.
00:20:56
◼
►
And yes, I know I'm frugal/cheap/whatever,
00:20:59
◼
►
but I gotta look into that.
00:21:00
◼
►
But I just thought in case anyone else,
00:21:02
◼
►
yes, this is kind of another PSA,
00:21:03
◼
►
another entry in the PSA corner,
00:21:05
◼
►
in case anyone else was confused,
00:21:06
◼
►
that apparently is the case for Verizon.
00:21:08
◼
►
I cannot speak for any other carrier.
00:21:10
◼
►
And I just, I did not expect that.
00:21:11
◼
►
So I was disappointed,
00:21:12
◼
►
but I was at least happy to understand it.
00:21:14
◼
►
So there is that.
00:21:16
◼
►
- Is this also another case where if you were to hotspot
00:21:18
◼
►
to your phone, you'd be throttled
00:21:20
◼
►
by the Bluetooth bandwidth maybe?
00:21:21
◼
►
- Yeah, or whether it's using Bluetooth or wifi,
00:21:24
◼
►
yeah, you're way throttled,
00:21:25
◼
►
but even by wifi you'd be throttled.
00:21:27
◼
►
- Yeah, that's correct.
00:21:28
◼
►
In fact, when I first was piddling with the ultra wideband stuff, I had done it via a
00:21:33
◼
►
physical USB connection to my computer, and it was dog-slow on the computer end.
00:21:38
◼
►
And I'm like, "What the heck?
00:21:39
◼
►
I've got like 2.5 gigabits per second down on the phone.
00:21:43
◼
►
Why the--" Oh, right.
00:21:44
◼
►
This is USB 2.0.
00:21:45
◼
►
It's slower than dirt.
00:21:46
◼
►
Whoopsie-doopsie.
00:21:47
◼
►
And so I decided, "Oh, if I'm going to tether, I am not going to tether via the USB connection.
00:21:52
◼
►
I'm not going to tether, to your point, via Bluetooth.
00:21:54
◼
►
I will tether via Wi-Fi.
00:21:56
◼
►
Even if I have the phone connected to the computer for power purposes, I will still
00:22:01
◼
►
tether via Wi-Fi because that is as close as I can get to full bandwidth from UltraWideband.
00:22:07
◼
►
So yeah, you're exactly right.
00:22:08
◼
►
Anyway, I just thought that was fascinating.
00:22:10
◼
►
We have a lot to talk about with regards to system settings, Jon.
00:22:13
◼
►
Tell me about this in Ventura, please.
00:22:15
◼
►
This was something that someone asked about a while ago that I found when I was digging
00:22:20
◼
►
through some old stuff regarding the switch controls in system settings.
00:22:25
◼
►
The Switch is like the ones on your iPhone.
00:22:26
◼
►
When you go to settings on your iPhone,
00:22:27
◼
►
there's a little on/off switch that goes horizontally,
00:22:29
◼
►
a little circle goes horizontally
00:22:31
◼
►
in a little channel, right?
00:22:33
◼
►
And of course, system settings in Ventura
00:22:35
◼
►
looks a lot like that now.
00:22:36
◼
►
And lots of people were throwing this entry
00:22:39
◼
►
from the Apple Human Interface guidelines
00:22:40
◼
►
back in Apple's face when the betas were out.
00:22:43
◼
►
I was worried, this is not the item
00:22:45
◼
►
that was brought to my attention, but is relevant to it.
00:22:48
◼
►
So in the Apple Hig,
00:22:49
◼
►
at a location that we'll link in the show notes,
00:22:52
◼
►
Apple says, "Avoid using a Switch control
00:22:54
◼
►
for a single detail or minor setting.
00:22:56
◼
►
A switch has more visual weight than a checkbox,
00:22:58
◼
►
so it looks better when it controls more functionality
00:23:00
◼
►
than a checkbox typically does.
00:23:01
◼
►
For example, you might use a switch to let people turn on
00:23:04
◼
►
or off a group of settings instead of just one setting.
00:23:07
◼
►
In general, don't replace a checkbox with a switch.
00:23:10
◼
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If you're already using a checkbox in your interface,
00:23:12
◼
►
it's probably best to keep using it.
00:23:13
◼
►
That's what the Apple Human Interface guidelines say.
00:23:16
◼
►
Arguably, Apple violates that 10 ways to Sunday,
00:23:18
◼
►
but with the Ventura System settings,
00:23:20
◼
►
because pretty much all those things used to be checkboxes
00:23:21
◼
►
and they didn't leave them alone,
00:23:22
◼
►
and pretty much all of them are controlling
00:23:25
◼
►
a single detail or minor setting.
00:23:27
◼
►
So there is that, right?
00:23:29
◼
►
But that's not the biggest thing,
00:23:30
◼
►
'cause you can argue, oh, well, is this a minor setting?
00:23:32
◼
►
Is it a big setting?
00:23:33
◼
►
Is it important for it to match the iOS settings
00:23:35
◼
►
for familiarity?
00:23:36
◼
►
You can go all around in different directions and that,
00:23:37
◼
►
although it is kind of weird that it is directly
00:23:40
◼
►
in violation of what they say
00:23:41
◼
►
in the Apple Hint-Erase guidelines.
00:23:42
◼
►
But this is inarguable in another example of,
00:23:45
◼
►
I don't know, just sort of not meeting the minimum standard
00:23:49
◼
►
for a Mac user interface.
00:23:51
◼
►
And this, kind of like complications
00:23:53
◼
►
or possibly changing the volume on your AirPods,
00:23:55
◼
►
it may be a thing that nobody knows about,
00:23:57
◼
►
but I feel like if anyone should know about it,
00:23:59
◼
►
it's the people making GUIs for the Mac who work at Apple.
00:24:03
◼
►
I don't think that's too high of a standard.
00:24:05
◼
►
And that is this, on the Mac, when you have a checkbox,
00:24:08
◼
►
and also on the web, by the way, if you do it right.
00:24:10
◼
►
But anyway, on the Mac, if you have a checkbox
00:24:12
◼
►
and it says like, you know, turn on turbo lasers
00:24:15
◼
►
and it's got a checkbox and the text next to the checkbox
00:24:17
◼
►
says turn on turbo lasers, right?
00:24:19
◼
►
Or turbo lasers on, I don't know.
00:24:20
◼
►
I'm doing a bad job with the copy here,
00:24:22
◼
►
but suffice to say there's a label next to the checkbox.
00:24:24
◼
►
You can click the checkbox to make the checkbox
00:24:27
◼
►
be on or off, but you can also click the label text.
00:24:31
◼
►
And the reason why you might wanna do that
00:24:32
◼
►
is the label text is way bigger than the checkbox.
00:24:35
◼
►
Checkboxes are pretty small.
00:24:38
◼
►
They can be hard to even see.
00:24:39
◼
►
That's one of the arguments people make for switches.
00:24:41
◼
►
Oh, the switches are so much bigger than checkbox.
00:24:42
◼
►
They should use the switches
00:24:44
◼
►
because they're just easier to hit.
00:24:45
◼
►
It's a bigger target, and there is something too,
00:24:46
◼
►
it being a bigger target, right?
00:24:48
◼
►
Although the switches on Mac
00:24:49
◼
►
are actually kind of small,
00:24:50
◼
►
but the label is a way bigger target.
00:24:53
◼
►
It's very wide and just as high as the checkbox,
00:24:55
◼
►
if not higher.
00:24:55
◼
►
That's why on the Mac, you can click the label
00:24:58
◼
►
anywhere in the label text,
00:25:00
◼
►
and it will activate and deactivate the checkbox.
00:25:02
◼
►
And you can do it on the web if you know what you're doing,
00:25:04
◼
►
and you should, and if you don't do it on the web,
00:25:05
◼
►
you should feel bad.
00:25:08
◼
►
So the question was, hey, in Ventura system settings,
00:25:11
◼
►
when they have these big, long lists of labels and switches,
00:25:16
◼
►
can you click the label to toggle the switch?
00:25:18
◼
►
and the answer is, at least in the one that I tested,
00:25:20
◼
►
no, you can't, and that is bad.
00:25:23
◼
►
That is very bad, 'cause that is way worse than a checkbox.
00:25:26
◼
►
And yes, I know the labels are distant from the slider,
00:25:28
◼
►
from the little switch too,
00:25:29
◼
►
instead of right next to it like checkboxes,
00:25:31
◼
►
but I think it's also kind of bad.
00:25:32
◼
►
But why can't I click the label
00:25:34
◼
►
to activate and deactivate the slider?
00:25:36
◼
►
That is a Mac idiom, and this is a replacement for a,
00:25:39
◼
►
I mean, I don't know, maybe there's somewhere
00:25:40
◼
►
in the human error state guidelines
00:25:41
◼
►
where they say explicitly don't do this,
00:25:42
◼
►
but that makes the targets for every one
00:25:44
◼
►
of these little things so much smaller than they used to be.
00:25:46
◼
►
They're bigger than checkboxes,
00:25:47
◼
►
but they're way smaller than a checkbox and a label.
00:25:49
◼
►
And I just don't understand that.
00:25:51
◼
►
I don't understand how that comes to be
00:25:54
◼
►
where they replace all the checkboxes
00:25:56
◼
►
with this kind of control.
00:25:57
◼
►
And then, oh, and by the way,
00:25:58
◼
►
we forgot for this type of control
00:25:59
◼
►
to make the label clickable.
00:26:04
◼
►
- Very upsetting.
00:26:06
◼
►
And then apparently some things are disappearing
00:26:08
◼
►
from the settings, system settings, system preferences,
00:26:12
◼
►
whatever it's called.
00:26:13
◼
►
- Yeah, we noted like the network locations was gone.
00:26:15
◼
►
I don't know why that feature disappeared, but it did.
00:26:17
◼
►
But there's one more feature that disappeared
00:26:19
◼
►
and it's relevant to my interest because I use this feature.
00:26:21
◼
►
It's a feature I've talked about in the past
00:26:23
◼
►
that used to be an energy saver in system preferences.
00:26:26
◼
►
There was a GUI for setting a time
00:26:28
◼
►
when you want your computer to wake up
00:26:30
◼
►
and setting a time when you want your computer
00:26:31
◼
►
to go to sleep.
00:26:32
◼
►
And I use these features to have my computer
00:26:33
◼
►
wake up in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping,
00:26:35
◼
►
do a bunch of backup stuff and then go to sleep.
00:26:38
◼
►
So I put my computer to sleep when I go to bed
00:26:40
◼
►
and then while I'm sleeping it wakes up,
00:26:41
◼
►
does a bunch of stuff, backup stuff
00:26:43
◼
►
and then goes back to sleep, right?
00:26:45
◼
►
Those, the ability to do that, like timed waking up
00:26:48
◼
►
and going to sleep, still exists in the OS.
00:26:51
◼
►
They just either got rid of or didn't have time
00:26:54
◼
►
to re-enactment the GUI for that, which is kind of a shame.
00:26:57
◼
►
We'll put a link in the show notes to Apple's support
00:27:00
◼
►
document that shows you how to do it from the command line.
00:27:02
◼
►
So I had to go and read the man page and come up
00:27:04
◼
►
with the command lines that are equivalent to my settings
00:27:07
◼
►
in case I ever want to restore them.
00:27:08
◼
►
It's an easy way to get rid of the schedule
00:27:11
◼
►
and it's an easy way to add it back.
00:27:12
◼
►
So it's not so bad, but no one's ever gonna find
00:27:15
◼
►
document the GUI was much friendlier way to let people change this and since the
00:27:18
◼
►
feature is still there I hope the GUI will come back someday. Indeed. A really
00:27:23
◼
►
quick thing I wanted to note I should have talked about this earlier but it
00:27:26
◼
►
completely slipped my mind. I am NOT trying to be funny. When did landscape
00:27:31
◼
►
iPads start treating the volume up down physical volume up down switches as
00:27:37
◼
►
backwards? Wait they do? Right thank you! What do you consider backwards when it's
00:27:43
◼
►
left and right. Well, so here's the thing. I will, this is like natural scrolling all
00:27:48
◼
►
over, which I believe in. I believe in natural scrolling, but last I recall, I don't think
00:27:52
◼
►
either of you do, but I do not. And I disagree with the terminology too. It's like a death
00:27:57
◼
►
tax. I don't, I don't accept your framing. I'm just using the Apple terminology. So the
00:28:02
◼
►
way I'm, the way I'm used to it is that, okay, hold your iPad either mentally or physically
00:28:07
◼
►
hold your iPad in portrait, you know, tall. So on the right hand side, for larger iPads anyway,
00:28:14
◼
►
the volume up button is the top button, volume down button is the bottom button, right? So far,
00:28:20
◼
►
so good. That makes sense. Take that and twist it counterclockwise. So you're taking the top and
00:28:27
◼
►
sliding it so it's now the left. I am used to, and in every other iPad I've ever used, the left side
00:28:35
◼
►
is volume up, the right side is volume down,
00:28:38
◼
►
because it's the same function.
00:28:39
◼
►
- It's the same button as it was before.
00:28:40
◼
►
If you had kept your finger on the buttons,
00:28:42
◼
►
it would be the same button.
00:28:42
◼
►
- That's what mine's doing.
00:28:43
◼
►
- So on my brand new iPad,
00:28:45
◼
►
and I believe I read that the Mini is doing this as well,
00:28:48
◼
►
but I could have that wrong.
00:28:49
◼
►
On the brand new iPad,
00:28:50
◼
►
which actually is not in the room with me,
00:28:52
◼
►
I wish it was, but if I have a portrait twist 90 degrees
00:28:56
◼
►
to the left, so now the top is the left,
00:28:58
◼
►
volume up is the rightmost button,
00:29:01
◼
►
volume down is the leftmost button.
00:29:03
◼
►
Now if you think about it for half a second,
00:29:05
◼
►
that actually does make more sense
00:29:07
◼
►
because you are looking at the meter
00:29:09
◼
►
as you're voluming up and down.
00:29:11
◼
►
And as you increase volume, it goes to the right.
00:29:15
◼
►
As you decrease volume--
00:29:16
◼
►
- If you change your language to Arabic, does it change?
00:29:19
◼
►
- (laughs) I don't know, or Hebrew or something.
00:29:21
◼
►
- Wait, so Benzi in the chat has,
00:29:24
◼
►
and Jitengur in the chat also have pointed out,
00:29:28
◼
►
this is actually now a setting.
00:29:29
◼
►
- Yeah, I looked for that and I must have missed it
00:29:32
◼
►
because I looked for it and didn't,
00:29:34
◼
►
oh no, you know, that's what it was.
00:29:35
◼
►
I told myself, no, embrace it.
00:29:38
◼
►
This is backwards.
00:29:39
◼
►
The way you're used to doing it, Casey, is backwards.
00:29:42
◼
►
- Just like a quote unquote natural scrolling
00:29:44
◼
►
advocate would do. - Correct, exactly right.
00:29:46
◼
►
Exactly right.
00:29:47
◼
►
- Yeah, you see the error of your ways, don't you?
00:29:49
◼
►
Now that you know the settings there,
00:29:50
◼
►
you can restore sanity.
00:29:52
◼
►
- No, I disagree.
00:29:53
◼
►
I think this does make more sense.
00:29:54
◼
►
It's just because it's not what I'm used to,
00:29:56
◼
►
that I'm flummoxed by it.
00:29:58
◼
►
But I do think it actually makes more sense
00:29:59
◼
►
because again, as you're voluming up,
00:30:01
◼
►
this slider is moving from left to right.
00:30:03
◼
►
As you're voluming down,
00:30:04
◼
►
it's moving from right to left.
00:30:05
◼
►
So it does make sense,
00:30:07
◼
►
but the fact that the buttons are software controlled,
00:30:11
◼
►
which obviously they were the whole time,
00:30:12
◼
►
but like you feel, or I felt at least,
00:30:15
◼
►
as though they were hardware buttons.
00:30:17
◼
►
Does that make sense?
00:30:17
◼
►
You know, like this button will always
00:30:20
◼
►
and forever be volume up.
00:30:21
◼
►
This other button will always and forever be volume down.
00:30:25
◼
►
And it turns out that, well, no,
00:30:27
◼
►
they aren't quote unquote hardware buttons.
00:30:29
◼
►
they're just giving a hint to the software to do something.
00:30:33
◼
►
And yeah, it actually does make sense to me anyway,
00:30:35
◼
►
to have the right one go up and the left one go down,
00:30:38
◼
►
but it took me by such surprise.
00:30:39
◼
►
And I forget what I was doing.
00:30:40
◼
►
I don't think I was like in bed with Aaron
00:30:42
◼
►
or anything like that, but it was at a time
00:30:44
◼
►
when I was not expecting a bunch of volume
00:30:46
◼
►
and I wanted to turn the iPad down
00:30:48
◼
►
and I mashed down on the right hand button
00:30:52
◼
►
because I was in landscape,
00:30:53
◼
►
mashed down the right hand button, it just got louder
00:30:54
◼
►
and I was like, "Oh my God, what's happening?"
00:30:56
◼
►
And then it occurred to me, oh, this is reversed.
00:30:59
◼
►
- Unintended volume acceleration?
00:31:00
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly right.
00:31:02
◼
►
Hashtag Toyota, am I right?
00:31:03
◼
►
But anyway, so yeah.
00:31:04
◼
►
- Howdy, come on, get the fake story right.
00:31:06
◼
►
- Oh, sorry, my mistake.
00:31:07
◼
►
Are you sure it wasn't Toyota?
00:31:08
◼
►
- I guess, was it later Toyota?
00:31:10
◼
►
The Audi one wasn't real, I think, but I don't remember.
00:31:13
◼
►
- I thought it was Toyota. - I think either of them
00:31:14
◼
►
were super real.
00:31:16
◼
►
The big story was about Toyota,
00:31:19
◼
►
but I think it was a little not super solid of a story.
00:31:23
◼
►
- Well, anyway, for the volume button thing,
00:31:25
◼
►
I guess we have to wait for Apple to come out
00:31:27
◼
►
with the brand new landscape volume buttons to match their landscape camera, which is
00:31:31
◼
►
what they call it when they move the camera to the other side.
00:31:33
◼
►
Well, if they move the volume buttons to the other side of the iPad, I guess, like the
00:31:38
◼
►
short side, then it'll be up and well, it'll be up on landscape.
00:31:42
◼
►
It'll basically give the landscape one a top.
00:31:43
◼
►
I guess it already has a top because once you put the camera on the landscape edge,
00:31:46
◼
►
that's the top in landscape.
00:31:47
◼
►
So then they can put the volume button somewhere and then I guess, you know, they would be
00:31:51
◼
►
on the left side and then up would be volume up and down and be volume down.
00:31:54
◼
►
- And then you can debate how they should work
00:31:56
◼
►
when it's in portrait.
00:31:57
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:31:58
◼
►
Anyway, this took me by surprise.
00:32:00
◼
►
- Apparently that's how the mini works, too.
00:32:01
◼
►
- Yeah, I think that's correct.
00:32:03
◼
►
- 'Cause they had to have room for the pencil.
00:32:04
◼
►
That's right, the pencil's along the edge.
00:32:06
◼
►
- Right, again, I don't have a mini, so I can't verify,
00:32:08
◼
►
but I believe that's correct.
00:32:09
◼
►
Anyway, I just thought that was very, very confusing
00:32:11
◼
►
and surprising, and I don't remember that
00:32:12
◼
►
having been mentioned anywhere, perhaps it was.
00:32:15
◼
►
- It was probably mentioned in the keynote,
00:32:15
◼
►
but it was a long time ago.
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- I think so, yeah, it's okay news.
00:34:20
◼
►
We talked about, I should have had the expansion
00:34:24
◼
►
of the abbreviation in the notes here
00:34:26
◼
►
with a quick media sync, I believe it was, QMS, HDMI QMS.
00:34:29
◼
►
It was part of the HDMI 2.1 standard
00:34:31
◼
►
that lets the television change frame rates
00:34:34
◼
►
without blacking out the screen,
00:34:36
◼
►
like leveraging the VRR, the variable refresh rate feature
00:34:40
◼
►
that already is an HDMI, the main television support,
00:34:42
◼
►
QMS is the thing on top of that
00:34:43
◼
►
that would try to avoid some of those black screens.
00:34:46
◼
►
I talked about the limitations of it last week
00:34:47
◼
►
that one limitation is that everything except for the frame rate has to stay the same and
00:34:51
◼
►
I wasn't sure if that included HDR versus SDR, so you still might be getting black screens
00:34:55
◼
►
when you go from your Apple TV menu screen to a video program if the HDRness doesn't
00:35:01
◼
►
match but we'll see.
00:35:02
◼
►
But the real main limitation is both devices have to support HDMI QMS.
00:35:09
◼
►
And so the news is that Apple says that, and I don't know, this was in the Verge article
00:35:14
◼
►
and a bunch of other articles, Apple must have just told people reviewing the Apple
00:35:16
◼
►
TV this information, but Apple basically says that the Apple TV 4K will be getting QMS in
00:35:23
◼
►
a future software update.
00:35:25
◼
►
No timelines or whatever, but it's coming, right?
00:35:27
◼
►
But as the Verge article says, "How many TVs work with QMS VRR, you asked?
00:35:32
◼
►
Well, zero at the moment, but you'll start seeing them hit the market next year."
00:35:36
◼
►
I really hope they'll be able to do firmware updates because if you already support VRR,
00:35:39
◼
►
which most fancy modern TVs do, supporting QMS VRR seems like it's within the realm
00:35:46
◼
►
of possibility for a firmware update, but you never know with TV makers. Sometimes they
00:35:50
◼
►
just never update old TVs to be able to do something that a new TV does. So my fingers
00:35:54
◼
►
are crossed for my television, which doesn't currently support QMS, that someday in the
00:36:00
◼
►
future it will support QMS. And also someday in the future the Apple TV 4K that's coming
00:36:04
◼
►
to my house will eventually support QMS.
00:36:06
◼
►
Yeah, so I was looking at this briefly and I believe that VRR and QMS are part of HDMI
00:36:13
◼
►
2.1, I think?
00:36:16
◼
►
but they're optional like every part of HDMI 2.1.
00:36:18
◼
►
- So I guess the question is, you know,
00:36:20
◼
►
what version of HDMI do all of our televisions support?
00:36:23
◼
►
- It's not the version, the standard is so crappy.
00:36:26
◼
►
You can be compliant with HDMI 2.1
00:36:28
◼
►
if you only support HDMI 2.0 features.
00:36:30
◼
►
It's a ridiculous standard.
00:36:31
◼
►
Like it just, it lets people put the label on.
00:36:33
◼
►
You have to, that's why you go to these review sites
00:36:35
◼
►
and they have a giant grid of like,
00:36:36
◼
►
what features does it actually support?
00:36:38
◼
►
ALM, VRR, you know, it's all these acronyms,
00:36:40
◼
►
soup or whatever.
00:36:41
◼
►
But HDMI 2.1 tells you almost nothing.
00:36:44
◼
►
All it tells you is that it's plausible
00:36:46
◼
►
that it might support these things.
00:36:47
◼
►
Whereas if you see HDMI 2.0, you know it absolutely doesn't.
00:36:50
◼
►
But you have to look at the individual specs
00:36:53
◼
►
to know which alphabet soup thing
00:36:55
◼
►
that you're actually interested in.
00:36:56
◼
►
It's stupid.
00:36:58
◼
►
- Yeah, well, we'll see what happens.
00:37:00
◼
►
Talk to me about iCloud shared photo library,
00:37:03
◼
►
which by the way, due to breaking news,
00:37:05
◼
►
I finally got the chance to have Erin update her phone
00:37:09
◼
►
to 16.1 just like an hour and a half ago.
00:37:12
◼
►
And so as we are recording, I am moving 47,733 items
00:37:16
◼
►
to the shared photo library,
00:37:17
◼
►
which based my network bandwidth seems like
00:37:19
◼
►
is actually like a thing.
00:37:22
◼
►
Like it is, it almost appears as though things are,
00:37:25
◼
►
these photos are moving back and forth.
00:37:26
◼
►
You would think that it would just be like,
00:37:28
◼
►
oh, take all these on the server side
00:37:30
◼
►
and glob them into the new shared photo library.
00:37:32
◼
►
But it does not appear to me that that's what's happening.
00:37:33
◼
►
I don't know.
00:37:34
◼
►
- I don't think it's moving your data at all.
00:37:35
◼
►
Like I said last week,
00:37:36
◼
►
I think it is purely a metadata based operation.
00:37:38
◼
►
And I think when you did the move of 40,000 or whatever,
00:37:42
◼
►
You should have seen within a few seconds all 40,000 disappear.
00:37:45
◼
►
If you were on the personal library view,
00:37:47
◼
►
they should have all disappeared from the personal library
00:37:49
◼
►
view in your local thing.
00:37:50
◼
►
And then there's the countdown.
00:37:51
◼
►
Again, scroll down to the bottom for the progress.
00:37:54
◼
►
But I think it's just a purely metadata move.
00:37:55
◼
►
I don't think it's moving any of the data at all.
00:37:57
◼
►
But I don't know.
00:37:57
◼
►
Someone who works on Apple Photos can come and tell us.
00:38:00
◼
►
Do you think anybody who works on Apple Photos would actually
00:38:03
◼
►
be on speaking terms with us?
00:38:04
◼
►
That is a plausible thing that could happen.
00:38:07
◼
►
Unrelated to that, here's some news about photo-shared library.
00:38:11
◼
►
Mikhail Gok told us that in the camera settings on iOS,
00:38:16
◼
►
there's a toggle to send photos you take
00:38:19
◼
►
directly to the shared library.
00:38:20
◼
►
I'd asked about that last week.
00:38:21
◼
►
What if I just want everything I take,
00:38:22
◼
►
every photo I take with my phone
00:38:23
◼
►
to go right into the shared library?
00:38:24
◼
►
I don't want it to suggest to me
00:38:25
◼
►
when it thinks they should go there.
00:38:27
◼
►
I don't want to move them manually.
00:38:29
◼
►
There is an option for that.
00:38:30
◼
►
I think during the onboarding process on the phone,
00:38:32
◼
►
it asks you that and says, "Hey, do you want me to do this?"
00:38:34
◼
►
But I onboarded on the Mac, and so that's not my phone.
00:38:37
◼
►
And so either I missed that option
00:38:39
◼
►
or it didn't even ask or whatever.
00:38:40
◼
►
But if you want every single photo you take on your phone
00:38:44
◼
►
to go directly into the shared library, you can turn that on.
00:38:46
◼
►
It's in the camera settings on your iPhone.
00:38:49
◼
►
As for my unsaved photos warning,
00:38:51
◼
►
I'm not sure if Casey saw that when he was trying
00:38:52
◼
►
to move his 40,000 photos, but if you select a bunch
00:38:54
◼
►
of photos and try to move them to the shared library,
00:38:56
◼
►
you might see something that says,
00:38:57
◼
►
"Hey, you've got unsaved photos.
00:38:59
◼
►
"Do you wanna save them?"
00:39:00
◼
►
And I wondered what the heck that was about.
00:39:02
◼
►
Lots of people gave me the answer
00:39:03
◼
►
that those are the shared with you photos.
00:39:05
◼
►
If you have that feature on, when someone sends you a photo
00:39:09
◼
►
in messages, like an iMessage.
00:39:11
◼
►
There's a feature that will surface that photo
00:39:14
◼
►
in your photos application, and it'll say like,
00:39:16
◼
►
oh, this was from Casey when you were having a message thread,
00:39:19
◼
►
and it shows his name and a little message icon
00:39:21
◼
►
or something or whatever.
00:39:23
◼
►
Those are the ones that haven't saved.
00:39:24
◼
►
And what it means by saved is we're showing you this photo
00:39:27
◼
►
because it's in one of your message threads.
00:39:29
◼
►
We're showing it to you in the photo grid view
00:39:31
◼
►
or in the Mac version of Photos app,
00:39:33
◼
►
but you haven't actually saved this photo
00:39:34
◼
►
to your photo library.
00:39:37
◼
►
And by saved, because I did select all
00:39:38
◼
►
or select a whole bunch,
00:39:40
◼
►
some of the things I selected were shared with you photos.
00:39:43
◼
►
So you have two choices.
00:39:44
◼
►
You could either save them,
00:39:45
◼
►
which means basically copy them out of the message thread
00:39:48
◼
►
and put them into your photo library
00:39:49
◼
►
where they will live forever.
00:39:50
◼
►
Or you can go to the, on the Mac anyway,
00:39:52
◼
►
I think on the iOS one too,
00:39:53
◼
►
there's like a filters menu option in the upper right.
00:39:57
◼
►
You can tell it to filter out,
00:39:58
◼
►
like don't show me the shared with you photos.
00:40:01
◼
►
And then it just won't show them.
00:40:02
◼
►
And then when you select huge swaths
00:40:03
◼
►
and you don't have to worry about that.
00:40:04
◼
►
So that's that feature, that's that mystery solved.
00:40:09
◼
►
So D duping is still definitely a frustrating situation.
00:40:13
◼
►
And I'm not even, you know,
00:40:14
◼
►
I'm not even talking about D duping
00:40:17
◼
►
like with two people's accounts.
00:40:18
◼
►
Like I said, last week, my wife and my account
00:40:20
◼
►
on the same Mac, I'm talking about D duping
00:40:21
◼
►
where two people contribute the same photo
00:40:23
◼
►
to the shared library,
00:40:24
◼
►
or there's a photo in the shared library
00:40:25
◼
►
and also in a personal library.
00:40:27
◼
►
And it's a tricky situation.
00:40:28
◼
►
So just to give an example, an example that I tested,
00:40:32
◼
►
if I and my wife both contribute the exact same photo
00:40:35
◼
►
to the shared photo library,
00:40:36
◼
►
which might happen if we both got like air dropped
00:40:38
◼
►
the photo from someone else.
00:40:39
◼
►
It's literally the same photo down to the bite,
00:40:41
◼
►
no differences whatsoever.
00:40:43
◼
►
There'll be two copies in there.
00:40:45
◼
►
And deduping is a little bit tricky
00:40:47
◼
►
because if we dedupe that,
00:40:49
◼
►
I mean, to do it right, what you would have to do
00:40:51
◼
►
is keep track of the fact that two different people
00:40:55
◼
►
contribute this photo, because,
00:40:57
◼
►
and I'm noticing this when I'm hopping back and forth
00:40:58
◼
►
between accounts, if you're in the shared library,
00:41:01
◼
►
you can take one of the photos and say,
00:41:02
◼
►
move this back to my library.
00:41:04
◼
►
But if you're not the one who contributed
00:41:06
◼
►
to the share library, you can't,
00:41:07
◼
►
it doesn't say move it back,
00:41:08
◼
►
'cause you didn't contribute it.
00:41:09
◼
►
So if two people contributed,
00:41:11
◼
►
the system has to remember,
00:41:12
◼
►
hey, both people contributed to this.
00:41:14
◼
►
And so if you move it back,
00:41:16
◼
►
A, it has to understand that you're allowed to move it back
00:41:18
◼
►
because you were one of the two contributors,
00:41:20
◼
►
or one of the three contributors,
00:41:21
◼
►
or one of the four people who contributed, or whatever,
00:41:23
◼
►
it has to understand that you're allowed to do that.
00:41:24
◼
►
And B, it should probably leave it there
00:41:28
◼
►
for other people to get back,
00:41:29
◼
►
because they contributed it, but they didn't pull it back.
00:41:31
◼
►
So you can pull your copy back.
00:41:35
◼
►
it's got a lot of weird edge cases.
00:41:36
◼
►
It's not as simple as just, oh, just delete one of them.
00:41:38
◼
►
Because if you do that,
00:41:39
◼
►
then you're left with like the one contributed by one person
00:41:41
◼
►
but now the other person can't pull it back
00:41:43
◼
►
even though they think they contributed it.
00:41:44
◼
►
So it is complicated and confusing,
00:41:47
◼
►
but I do hope it's on the list.
00:41:48
◼
►
I don't think I put it in a feedback for that,
00:41:50
◼
►
but I probably will at some point.
00:41:51
◼
►
But I hope this is already on the roadmap somewhere
00:41:52
◼
►
because it would be a useful feature.
00:41:55
◼
►
It's surprisingly easy to get dupes.
00:41:57
◼
►
And the reason it's surprisingly easy to get dupes,
00:41:58
◼
►
at least for me, is we've had just like
00:42:00
◼
►
years and years, decades, at least a single decade,
00:42:03
◼
►
a long time where we've had separate libraries.
00:42:06
◼
►
And inevitably there are photos that end up
00:42:08
◼
►
in both of the libraries
00:42:09
◼
►
because even when one is the real library,
00:42:11
◼
►
sometimes I wanna have like the good pictures on my phone
00:42:14
◼
►
so I can make wallpapers, so I can post them to Instagram.
00:42:17
◼
►
And there are just so many photos that are both on my phone
00:42:20
◼
►
and also in the quote unquote real library.
00:42:22
◼
►
And trying to manually sort that out is fraught.
00:42:26
◼
►
I'd rather just dump everything into the shadow of the library
00:42:29
◼
►
and say, "No, dee doop," and have it handle that,
00:42:31
◼
►
but it doesn't do that yet.
00:42:33
◼
►
and it doesn't have a way for you to ask it to do,
00:42:34
◼
►
but just does it on its own sweet time, which is not great.
00:42:37
◼
►
And finally, people and faces.
00:42:39
◼
►
So here's how, as far as I can tell,
00:42:41
◼
►
the people and faces stuff.
00:42:43
◼
►
The people and like the names of the people
00:42:46
◼
►
and all the face data doesn't seem like
00:42:48
◼
►
it goes with the photo.
00:42:51
◼
►
So if I contribute a photo and I have all the faces named,
00:42:54
◼
►
you know, and like identified all the people in them,
00:42:56
◼
►
that stays, like I don't lose that
00:42:58
◼
►
by pushing into the shared library.
00:42:59
◼
►
It's exactly there because I'm contributing the photo.
00:43:01
◼
►
But other people who see that photo,
00:43:03
◼
►
they have to then run face recognition
00:43:05
◼
►
according to their face database,
00:43:07
◼
►
and they have, you know,
00:43:08
◼
►
assigning their names or whatever.
00:43:09
◼
►
And so in theory, if you want to be weird or funny,
00:43:12
◼
►
you could have totally different names
00:43:13
◼
►
and totally different face assignments for multiple people
00:43:16
◼
►
looking in the same photo in the shared library.
00:43:18
◼
►
But the face data and the name data is not shared.
00:43:21
◼
►
It is private to each contributor.
00:43:24
◼
►
There's a privacy angle to that,
00:43:25
◼
►
or you might not want to know that, you know,
00:43:28
◼
►
Uncle Bill is named Poopyface
00:43:29
◼
►
in your library or something.
00:43:32
◼
►
But for families, it would actually be kind of convenient
00:43:36
◼
►
if the people data could be shared.
00:43:38
◼
►
Kind of like the keywords are shared,
00:43:39
◼
►
'cause that's another privacy thing.
00:43:41
◼
►
Like I said a couple weeks ago,
00:43:44
◼
►
when you assign a keyword to a photo and you share it,
00:43:46
◼
►
other people see that keyword.
00:43:48
◼
►
So I hope your keywords aren't like, you know,
00:43:50
◼
►
something you don't want other people to see.
00:43:51
◼
►
It's just text, you know, it's not a big deal
00:43:53
◼
►
in terms of the sharing,
00:43:54
◼
►
but it saves a lot of time and energy
00:43:56
◼
►
'cause I want the keywords to be shared rather,
00:43:59
◼
►
so that I can take advantage of the years
00:44:01
◼
►
I have spent keyword tagging photos.
00:44:03
◼
►
- You know, as you were talking
00:44:05
◼
►
and I was looking at the show notes
00:44:06
◼
►
and I noticed that I, or I realized
00:44:09
◼
►
I hadn't looked at the shared library settings
00:44:11
◼
►
within camera, within settings on my phone.
00:44:14
◼
►
And it's worth noting there's some clever stuff here.
00:44:16
◼
►
So, you know, there's a kind of global,
00:44:19
◼
►
do you wanna share photos directly from your camera?
00:44:22
◼
►
Then below that, you have two choices,
00:44:23
◼
►
share automatically or share manually.
00:44:25
◼
►
And if I understand this right, basically,
00:44:28
◼
►
If your phone, or my phone in my case,
00:44:30
◼
►
sees Aaron's phone nearby, it will automatically,
00:44:33
◼
►
if I so choose, share photos that I take
00:44:37
◼
►
while we're near each other to the shared library.
00:44:40
◼
►
And then additionally,
00:44:41
◼
►
which I think they had talked about on a keynote somewhere,
00:44:43
◼
►
but additionally, there's share when at home, yes, no.
00:44:47
◼
►
And so whenever I'm at home,
00:44:48
◼
►
irrespective of whether Aaron is physically near me
00:44:50
◼
►
at the time or not,
00:44:51
◼
►
it can optionally share directly
00:44:53
◼
►
to the shared photo library, which I think is very slick.
00:44:55
◼
►
And we'll see whether or not any of this actually works,
00:44:57
◼
►
but I'm very impressed that these options are available.
00:45:01
◼
►
It seems reasonably well thought out.
00:45:03
◼
►
The one thing that I do think I screwed up though,
00:45:05
◼
►
is I wanted to capture photos of the four of us
00:45:10
◼
►
and basically anything since Aaron and I met.
00:45:12
◼
►
And I think what I accidentally did was an and not an or.
00:45:16
◼
►
Like it seemed to me like I was doing an or operation.
00:45:19
◼
►
Like take anything that is, you know, from before
00:45:23
◼
►
or from the time we met and after, and, or,
00:45:26
◼
►
I have to choose my words carefully here.
00:45:27
◼
►
- Did you mean like during the onboarding
00:45:29
◼
►
when you were at the-- - Correct, sorry, yes.
00:45:30
◼
►
- prompted you to say like,
00:45:30
◼
►
hey, what photos do you want me to send over?
00:45:32
◼
►
Yeah, I didn't understand - Exactly right.
00:45:33
◼
►
- any of those options, which is why I said,
00:45:35
◼
►
I'll do this myself later, whatever that option was.
00:45:37
◼
►
- Yeah, see, that's why I should've learned from your,
00:45:40
◼
►
I was gonna say mistakes, but not mistakes.
00:45:42
◼
►
I should've learned from you.
00:45:43
◼
►
And so I think, what I did was I said,
00:45:45
◼
►
start from whenever we met and take the four of us.
00:45:48
◼
►
And it appears to me that what it heard when I said that
00:45:52
◼
►
is take pictures of the four of us
00:45:54
◼
►
rather than just glob everything from 2005 onward,
00:45:59
◼
►
it's actually just, I think it's just taking photos
00:46:03
◼
►
that it recognizes as either me, Aaron, Declan, or Michaela,
00:46:06
◼
►
which I'm gonna have to go back and add a whole bunch more,
00:46:08
◼
►
but what are you gonna do?
00:46:09
◼
►
Also, I mean, it's still churning, so maybe I'm wrong.
00:46:11
◼
►
Maybe I'm basing this off of what's in progress,
00:46:14
◼
►
and once it all settles down, maybe it'll be what I expect.
00:46:17
◼
►
- You're just reminding me of how much the search
00:46:19
◼
►
in photos annoys me either because I can't figure it out,
00:46:21
◼
►
in which case someone, again, from the Apple Photos team,
00:46:23
◼
►
please tell me how to do this because I want to do it,
00:46:25
◼
►
but like, photos has had for many years now
00:46:28
◼
►
a search box in the upper right,
00:46:29
◼
►
and you can type stuff in there like you can on your phone,
00:46:31
◼
►
like you can type the word dog
00:46:32
◼
►
and it will find all the pictures of dogs, right?
00:46:34
◼
►
That, and it has, it understands a whole bunch of things.
00:46:37
◼
►
It's very useful, and now it also does text,
00:46:39
◼
►
so if you take a picture of a street sign,
00:46:40
◼
►
it'll do OCR on the text, so you can type that text, right?
00:46:42
◼
►
Powerful search field up there, right?
00:46:44
◼
►
Also, there is a thing called smart folders
00:46:46
◼
►
that are in the sidebar, and smart folders
00:46:49
◼
►
have never heard of that search field in the upper right,
00:46:51
◼
►
because everything that search field can do,
00:46:53
◼
►
Smart folders are like, I have no idea what that is,
00:46:54
◼
►
don't even talk to me about it.
00:46:55
◼
►
So if I wanted to do something like,
00:46:57
◼
►
show me photos with these people,
00:46:59
◼
►
show me photos of a dog that were taken
00:47:01
◼
►
between these years, the smart folder is like,
00:47:02
◼
►
ha ha ha, I don't know what a photo of a dog is,
00:47:04
◼
►
what are you even talking about?
00:47:05
◼
►
Unless you keyword tagged it with dog,
00:47:07
◼
►
I have no idea about that AI thing.
00:47:08
◼
►
You can't even, and it doesn't know
00:47:09
◼
►
about face recognition either.
00:47:10
◼
►
Smart folders are like, show me photos of these five people,
00:47:13
◼
►
but also that, like it's just, it's so,
00:47:16
◼
►
they're so divorced from each other
00:47:18
◼
►
based on like the year and team that they were created,
00:47:20
◼
►
and I'm like, look, if you can do these searches,
00:47:21
◼
►
the smart folders should support everything
00:47:23
◼
►
the search field can support and vice versa,
00:47:24
◼
►
but they don't.
00:47:25
◼
►
There's so many smart folders that I wanted to create
00:47:29
◼
►
to help me deal with the migration and stuff
00:47:31
◼
►
that just aren't possible to do.
00:47:32
◼
►
Or maybe they are, please tell me I'm wrong
00:47:34
◼
►
and let me know how to do this.
00:47:35
◼
►
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00:49:35
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:49:38
◼
►
- So we had some news that happened this week
00:49:42
◼
►
and it's one of those times when like the entire internet
00:49:46
◼
►
points to you and says, did you see this?
00:49:48
◼
►
Did you see this?
00:49:49
◼
►
Like there was a,
00:49:50
◼
►
I probably won't be able to find it for the show notes,
00:49:52
◼
►
but there was like a satirical thing
00:49:53
◼
►
where an FFmpeg fan talks about FFmpeg.
00:49:56
◼
►
It was not directly about me as far as I'm aware,
00:49:58
◼
►
but like the entire internet sent it to me.
00:50:01
◼
►
If I remember it, and if I can dig it up,
00:50:03
◼
►
I'll put it in the show notes.
00:50:04
◼
►
But in this case, I was not the star.
00:50:06
◼
►
It was John.
00:50:07
◼
►
And you were the star because coming out of,
00:50:11
◼
►
apparently out of the woodwork is rewind.ai.
00:50:14
◼
►
And rewind.ai is by another name, a life stream.
00:50:19
◼
►
And this is something I've heard you talk about for years.
00:50:22
◼
►
So John, remind me what a life stream is and tell me what's going on.
00:50:27
◼
►
Not to be confused with life day. Um, yeah, I had to dig up where I talked about this.
00:50:31
◼
►
Most recently back in November of 2021,
00:50:34
◼
►
I talked about it with Merlin on rectifs, uh, reconcilable differences.
00:50:37
◼
►
I keep abbreviating. People don't know what that is. Another podcast I do.
00:50:39
◼
►
I'll put a link in the show notes. If you, uh,
00:50:41
◼
►
a timestamp length to 53 minutes and 22 seconds
00:50:44
◼
►
if you want to hear my most recent conversation about it.
00:50:46
◼
►
But way before that, back in May of 2014,
00:50:49
◼
►
I talked about it on this very show, on ATP episode 66,
00:50:52
◼
►
at 1 hour and 52 seconds into the show.
00:50:55
◼
►
And it's not a thing that I made up.
00:50:57
◼
►
As I said in both of the times I talked about it,
00:50:58
◼
►
it's a thing I saw on TV when I was a kid,
00:51:00
◼
►
possibly a teenager, but in my advanced age,
00:51:03
◼
►
it seems like when I was a kid.
00:51:04
◼
►
And it was like some research thing
00:51:06
◼
►
that some academic had done and written papers about
00:51:09
◼
►
or whatever.
00:51:10
◼
►
I was digging some more stuff about this.
00:51:11
◼
►
Someone wrote a paper about implementing this
00:51:13
◼
►
on the Newton PDA back in the day.
00:51:15
◼
►
I don't know who's ever implemented.
00:51:16
◼
►
A lot of the papers had broken links.
00:51:18
◼
►
But anyway, as I think I described
00:51:20
◼
►
in both times I talked about this,
00:51:21
◼
►
it was back early enough where people were still thinking
00:51:24
◼
►
about new ways to look at data on computers.
00:51:27
◼
►
We're all kind of familiar with the files and folder metaphor
00:51:30
◼
►
of sort of arranging things in a hierarchy
00:51:33
◼
►
and the desktop metaphor and like, you know,
00:51:35
◼
►
filing things like that.
00:51:36
◼
►
We're also kind of aware these days of the search paradigm,
00:51:40
◼
►
where things, you know, files and objects have attributes,
00:51:44
◼
►
and you can search based on those attributes,
00:51:45
◼
►
unless they're Apple photos, in which case,
00:51:47
◼
►
you can only search on some of them in the sidebar.
00:51:48
◼
►
But anyway, that's a different way to view your text,
00:51:51
◼
►
view your content, you could use search,
00:51:52
◼
►
and then the search doesn't care where the thing is located,
00:51:55
◼
►
it just cares that they're all pictures of dogs or whatever.
00:51:58
◼
►
And another way you can think about slicing and dicing data
00:52:01
◼
►
is purely based on time.
00:52:03
◼
►
We don't care if it has a picture of a dog in it,
00:52:05
◼
►
we don't care where it is in the file system,
00:52:07
◼
►
all we care is when something happened to it.
00:52:09
◼
►
And so you can imagine every single thing
00:52:12
◼
►
that you interact with on a computer
00:52:14
◼
►
being a time-ordered sequence.
00:52:17
◼
►
I looked at this thing, I clicked this thing,
00:52:19
◼
►
I made this thing, I wrote this text, I did this,
00:52:21
◼
►
and it's just a long stream of things.
00:52:23
◼
►
You can visualize, I think they even visualize it
00:52:25
◼
►
on the thing I was watching on PBS
00:52:26
◼
►
is just like a, you know, kind of like a rollercoaster ride
00:52:29
◼
►
where you're flying through a whole bunch of things
00:52:30
◼
►
and the past is way out there
00:52:32
◼
►
and the future is in the other direction.
00:52:33
◼
►
And they called it life streams or life streaming.
00:52:36
◼
►
And it was bigger than that.
00:52:37
◼
►
It was like, what if I wear a camera on my head
00:52:39
◼
►
and record myself 24 hours a day or whatever,
00:52:40
◼
►
but just in the realm of computers,
00:52:42
◼
►
imagine if you could see everything
00:52:46
◼
►
that you've interacted with on the computer
00:52:48
◼
►
ordered by time.
00:52:49
◼
►
And the reason I brought that up probably on both podcasts
00:52:52
◼
►
is because I always find it frustrating
00:52:54
◼
►
when I know I saw something somewhere the other day,
00:52:58
◼
►
but I can't remember where it was.
00:53:00
◼
►
Was it a tweet?
00:53:01
◼
►
Was it an email somebody sent me?
00:53:03
◼
►
Did someone send me a message?
00:53:05
◼
►
Was it in Slack?
00:53:07
◼
►
Was it a phone call?
00:53:08
◼
►
Was it an in-person meeting?
00:53:09
◼
►
I know this doesn't help with that,
00:53:10
◼
►
but that is a thing that, again,
00:53:12
◼
►
at my advanced stage, very often,
00:53:14
◼
►
the lines blur between things that happen on the computer
00:53:16
◼
►
and things that happen in real life.
00:53:18
◼
►
And I hate it when I can't, I hate that feeling
00:53:21
◼
►
where it's like, I know I saw this, I just saw it,
00:53:23
◼
►
and like, I go through my history and my browsers
00:53:25
◼
►
and I'm searching the file system
00:53:27
◼
►
and I'm trying to search Slack
00:53:28
◼
►
and hoping that like the free Slack, you know,
00:53:30
◼
►
hasn't scrolled off the end
00:53:31
◼
►
'cause it doesn't keep everything, you know,
00:53:32
◼
►
it's just, I hate when I can't find it.
00:53:34
◼
►
And I always think, if I had live streams,
00:53:36
◼
►
this wouldn't be a problem
00:53:37
◼
►
because the whole point of livestreams is just,
00:53:39
◼
►
it notes everything you do and orders it by time.
00:53:41
◼
►
And if I can remember it happened sometime yesterday,
00:53:44
◼
►
then I can find it
00:53:45
◼
►
because that's the only thing I care about.
00:53:46
◼
►
I don't care about, did it happen in Slack?
00:53:48
◼
►
Did it happen in messages?
00:53:49
◼
►
Was it an email?
00:53:50
◼
►
I don't care about that.
00:53:51
◼
►
And I certainly don't care about
00:53:53
◼
►
where it is in the file system,
00:53:54
◼
►
where the file was saved, if it is a file or whatever.
00:53:56
◼
►
I just wanna find the data.
00:53:58
◼
►
So this startup at rewind.ai
00:54:01
◼
►
has basically implemented livestreams.
00:54:05
◼
►
When I talked about it on Erectifs back in November 2021,
00:54:08
◼
►
I talked about the pitfalls
00:54:11
◼
►
of potentially implementing this.
00:54:13
◼
►
And so Rewind.ai has implemented it,
00:54:15
◼
►
so now we have a concrete implementation to look at.
00:54:17
◼
►
And what it does is you run it on your Mac,
00:54:19
◼
►
it's a Mac application,
00:54:20
◼
►
so cool for people making innovative new Mac applications,
00:54:24
◼
►
and it tries to implement live streams.
00:54:26
◼
►
And so if you're like,
00:54:27
◼
►
what was that thing that I see,
00:54:29
◼
►
it was something about the TPS report,
00:54:31
◼
►
I think they used TPS report in their demo video.
00:54:32
◼
►
- Yeah, they did. - TPS reports,
00:54:34
◼
►
yesterday where was that?
00:54:36
◼
►
And you don't remember and it will find it
00:54:37
◼
►
in the example they give is like,
00:54:39
◼
►
what if it was just something that was on somebody else's
00:54:41
◼
►
screen in a Zoom call, right?
00:54:43
◼
►
They did screen sharing on a Zoom call
00:54:44
◼
►
and that's where it was.
00:54:45
◼
►
You're never gonna find that
00:54:46
◼
►
'cause it's not even on your desk.
00:54:47
◼
►
It's not in your browser history.
00:54:49
◼
►
There's no history in Zoom where you could find
00:54:51
◼
►
text that was on a document that was being shared over Zoom
00:54:55
◼
►
for someone who's doing screen sharing, right?
00:54:57
◼
►
But rewind.ai will find it.
00:54:59
◼
►
And how does it do this you may ask?
00:55:01
◼
►
Exactly the way you're thinking.
00:55:03
◼
►
It records everything that happens on your screen,
00:55:06
◼
►
and that's where people start to get scared.
00:55:08
◼
►
But honestly, that's the only way to do it
00:55:10
◼
►
with current technology is,
00:55:12
◼
►
what if we just record everything that happens
00:55:14
◼
►
on your screen, every single window, OCR, all of it,
00:55:17
◼
►
do text to speech from any audio that happens,
00:55:20
◼
►
and just record it all?
00:55:21
◼
►
Because that's the only way we're gonna find anything.
00:55:23
◼
►
So it doesn't really care what it is,
00:55:24
◼
►
it doesn't need to integrate with your browser,
00:55:26
◼
►
it doesn't need to do any of that stuff.
00:55:27
◼
►
It's just basically gonna record everything.
00:55:29
◼
►
And if you are technically minded,
00:55:31
◼
►
you're thinking many things.
00:55:32
◼
►
You're thinking about the privacy implications
00:55:34
◼
►
and you're thinking about the technical implications.
00:55:35
◼
►
But if we're going to get into all that
00:55:36
◼
►
and there's a lot to get into, I just want--
00:55:37
◼
►
- I think about the legal implications.
00:55:39
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:55:40
◼
►
- Like two-party consent for recording.
00:55:42
◼
►
- I just want to say that, as always
00:55:44
◼
►
when I was discussing on rectifs,
00:55:46
◼
►
that I would love this feature,
00:55:48
◼
►
but anyone who actually implements it,
00:55:50
◼
►
it becomes immediately terrifying
00:55:52
◼
►
and probably also not technically possible.
00:55:53
◼
►
And I think what I said back on the rectifs,
00:55:55
◼
►
so that I haven't listened back to the whole thing,
00:55:56
◼
►
is like the only company that I wouldn't even remotely trust
00:55:59
◼
►
to implement this in some future
00:56:00
◼
►
where implementing it doesn't bring my system to its knees,
00:56:04
◼
►
it would be a platform or like Apple that is privacy focused
00:56:07
◼
►
because anybody else who implements this,
00:56:10
◼
►
it is so scary that I would,
00:56:15
◼
►
how could I possibly have trust in them?
00:56:16
◼
►
And as we'll get to in a little bit,
00:56:19
◼
►
this is a venture-funded company.
00:56:20
◼
►
And so I'm like making, like it's like,
00:56:23
◼
►
do I want a venture-funded company being responsible
00:56:28
◼
►
for keeping all my data privacy
00:56:29
◼
►
as it records everything that happens on my screen?
00:56:32
◼
►
Probably not, but anyway, that's the product.
00:56:35
◼
►
I think it actually is cool.
00:56:36
◼
►
I am certainly a fan of livestreams.
00:56:38
◼
►
I think it's technically cool,
00:56:39
◼
►
but it also scares the heck out of me.
00:56:41
◼
►
- I'm not sure I would trust even Apple with this,
00:56:43
◼
►
for a number of reasons.
00:56:45
◼
►
I mean, number one, I think just the liability
00:56:48
◼
►
that you're creating by recording everything
00:56:51
◼
►
that passes through your screen and/or microphone
00:56:54
◼
►
or whatever else, if somebody had access to that,
00:56:56
◼
►
even if it's just somebody who sat down at your computer
00:56:59
◼
►
and you walked away for a minute,
00:57:00
◼
►
it's having access to everything
00:57:03
◼
►
that has shown on your screen.
00:57:04
◼
►
And granted, this app says they could do things
00:57:06
◼
►
like exclude your private Safari windows
00:57:09
◼
►
so when you're looking at stuff
00:57:10
◼
►
you shouldn't be looking at in polite company.
00:57:14
◼
►
- Or exclude the Zoom window if your work
00:57:16
◼
►
doesn't want you to record and stuff like that.
00:57:18
◼
►
They built the features you would expect
00:57:20
◼
►
that they would build in, but it's not like,
00:57:23
◼
►
getting back to the live streaming thing
00:57:24
◼
►
of the guy who has a camera on his head
00:57:26
◼
►
and records his whole life, it's the same idea.
00:57:28
◼
►
and this is a topic visited very often in science fiction.
00:57:31
◼
►
Obviously they're doing it for like as academic,
00:57:33
◼
►
let's try this thing, but just think about
00:57:34
◼
►
what it would be like if you recorded
00:57:35
◼
►
your entire life all day with your AR glasses,
00:57:38
◼
►
it just recorded everywhere you went.
00:57:41
◼
►
That is a tremendous, like you said, a tremendous liability.
00:57:44
◼
►
Nobody wants every moment of their life recorded
00:57:47
◼
►
and able to be recalled by somebody who's not them.
00:57:49
◼
►
I don't even want it to be recalled by someone who is me.
00:57:52
◼
►
I don't want to be able to go back
00:57:53
◼
►
and see every moment of my past,
00:57:55
◼
►
but I certainly don't want any arbitrary person
00:57:58
◼
►
who gets access to my AR or goggle recording
00:58:01
◼
►
to be able to jump back in time and look at what,
00:58:03
◼
►
that is fodder for dystopian sci-fi entirely.
00:58:07
◼
►
We're just talking about what happens on a computer,
00:58:09
◼
►
but that's plenty scary enough.
00:58:11
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause your whole life is on your computer,
00:58:13
◼
►
and the things you do, I mean, there's so much,
00:58:15
◼
►
there's so much information there
00:58:18
◼
►
that could be used against you in some way,
00:58:20
◼
►
whether it's if you happen to flash a view
00:58:23
◼
►
of your bank account on a browser somewhere,
00:58:25
◼
►
or just sensitive emails you get,
00:58:27
◼
►
you know, just sensitive documents you have to deal with,
00:58:30
◼
►
what you're browsing for legitimate reasons,
00:58:33
◼
►
like there's just so, there is so much there,
00:58:36
◼
►
you are creating a massive honeypot reward
00:58:41
◼
►
for one bad actor in any part of it to be able to access
00:58:46
◼
►
and do horrendous things with.
00:58:47
◼
►
And even, again, I wouldn't even trust Apple to do this.
00:58:51
◼
►
And I trust Apple with a lot.
00:58:52
◼
►
I trust that even though we will complain about them
00:58:56
◼
►
when it's warranted, I do trust them a lot
00:59:00
◼
►
with a lot of data and integrity.
00:59:02
◼
►
That being said, as they push more into trying
00:59:06
◼
►
to be an ad company with, I think,
00:59:10
◼
►
somewhat spotty morals in that department,
00:59:13
◼
►
I don't know that we could even trust them with that.
00:59:15
◼
►
'Cause I think what Apple's argument would be is,
00:59:18
◼
►
well, we will keep it secure,
00:59:20
◼
►
and we won't sell your data to other companies,
00:59:23
◼
►
which is what they call tracking,
00:59:25
◼
►
but Apple itself would probably at some point
00:59:29
◼
►
use that for advertising targeting purposes.
00:59:31
◼
►
Again, we're in a different world now.
00:59:34
◼
►
Now that Apple is not only an ad company
00:59:38
◼
►
and a rapidly expanding ad company,
00:59:41
◼
►
but also now that Apple is having some tough quarters
00:59:44
◼
►
with services growth, they're gonna tighten the screws,
00:59:48
◼
►
they're gonna keep going.
00:59:49
◼
►
This past month or quarter, whatever,
00:59:52
◼
►
we had all of a sudden price hikes for all the services.
00:59:54
◼
►
That's not a coincidence.
00:59:55
◼
►
Look at their growth rates, look at their revenue rates.
00:59:58
◼
►
It's slowing down.
00:59:59
◼
►
All of a sudden we have lots of ads launching
01:00:01
◼
►
around the app store.
01:00:02
◼
►
Again, not a coincidence.
01:00:04
◼
►
They're gonna keep tightening the screws
01:00:06
◼
►
because what they call quote services
01:00:09
◼
►
are all things where they can fairly easily
01:00:12
◼
►
just like increase the spigot a little bit.
01:00:14
◼
►
Just they can do things here and there
01:00:16
◼
►
that will degrade things for users or developers
01:00:19
◼
►
or both or whatever, but we'll give them
01:00:21
◼
►
a little bit more money in the short term.
01:00:23
◼
►
This is what companies do, Apple's not immune to it.
01:00:25
◼
►
They're gonna keep doing this.
01:00:26
◼
►
And so I can clearly imagine a future,
01:00:29
◼
►
and I hope this never happens,
01:00:30
◼
►
but I think it's extremely plausible
01:00:34
◼
►
where if Apple had this feature of their platforms,
01:00:37
◼
►
this total recording everything feature,
01:00:39
◼
►
which frankly I don't think they would ever do
01:00:41
◼
►
'cause I think it's too problematic
01:00:43
◼
►
and they would know that,
01:00:44
◼
►
but if they were to ever launch such a thing,
01:00:47
◼
►
There is no question in my mind that they would find a way,
01:00:51
◼
►
once a bad quarter came around,
01:00:52
◼
►
they would find a way to twist some logic to say,
01:00:55
◼
►
okay, we're gonna now start using that data
01:00:56
◼
►
to target ads to you.
01:00:57
◼
►
And only in our apps though.
01:00:59
◼
►
We're gonna be super privacy sensitive
01:01:01
◼
►
and only we can do this creepy thing to your data.
01:01:05
◼
►
But that's what they would do.
01:01:07
◼
►
And so again, you look at even Apple,
01:01:10
◼
►
who we trust so much,
01:01:11
◼
►
who has a pretty good track record in most of these areas,
01:01:14
◼
►
I think even they would be a very small step away
01:01:17
◼
►
from taking advantage of that kind of thing
01:01:18
◼
►
in a creepy way, and that's Apple.
01:01:20
◼
►
Imagine any other company with access to that kind of data.
01:01:24
◼
►
And I mean, especially, I think a VC funded company
01:01:27
◼
►
is especially scary about that,
01:01:28
◼
►
because it is really hard to look at that
01:01:31
◼
►
and not be tempted when times get tough.
01:01:34
◼
►
So when you're not meeting your numbers,
01:01:36
◼
►
when you need a little bit more revenue
01:01:38
◼
►
to hit some goal or to avoid some problem,
01:01:41
◼
►
it's really, really hard to not tap that resource.
01:01:44
◼
►
And it's a massive resource that could be used
01:01:46
◼
►
in immensely creepy and terrible ways.
01:01:49
◼
►
Not to mention, even going beyond stuff
01:01:52
◼
►
like legal problems with it, which again,
01:01:54
◼
►
there are many legal problems with like,
01:01:57
◼
►
if you are recording things on your computer
01:01:59
◼
►
without people's consent,
01:02:00
◼
►
they're on the other side of those things,
01:02:02
◼
►
that's a bit of a problem in a lot of places.
01:02:04
◼
►
- I'm not sure if the law has caught up with that,
01:02:06
◼
►
but certainly NDA law has caught up with that, right?
01:02:08
◼
►
If you're under NDA, you're not supposed to record
01:02:12
◼
►
anything that happens in the meetings
01:02:14
◼
►
that you have at work or whatever.
01:02:16
◼
►
If people use enterprise software to do their tele-meetings or whatever, they explicitly
01:02:21
◼
►
disable recording if they don't want you to be able to record it, if that's their corporate
01:02:25
◼
►
And of course, if you install a third-party app that also records on your computer using
01:02:28
◼
►
for corporate stuff, you are certainly violating your employee agreement or some NDA or whatever,
01:02:32
◼
►
which is a more well-trodden area of the law than...
01:02:36
◼
►
The phone system, the law has kind of caught up with that.
01:02:38
◼
►
So we have all the recording statutes that probably apply to recording someone saying
01:02:43
◼
►
audio, but recording like an image that goes across your screen because someone sent it
01:02:47
◼
►
to you in like a WhatsApp thing, it's so technically esoteric that I do wonder if the law in various
01:02:53
◼
►
states would be able to, would be able to grapple with that or if it's just, you know,
01:02:57
◼
►
something that hasn't ever been tried because this technology is so new.
01:03:01
◼
►
It's funny also, one of the things that's on the rewind website is, you know, you can
01:03:07
◼
►
record your meetings and at the bottom of this page it says, oh shoot, where did it
01:03:13
◼
►
like, "Oh, how does this work?" And then there's like a help page about it. At the bottom of that,
01:03:20
◼
►
it says, "Make sure to read this article as well, colon, the importance of consent." And they talk
01:03:26
◼
►
a little bit about it, and they say at the bottom of this article in bold, "We believe all users of
01:03:32
◼
►
our product should proactively seek consent from everyone they record, even if they are not
01:03:35
◼
►
illegally obligated to do so." And apparently, news to me, because I was looking at this earlier,
01:03:41
◼
►
There are only 11 American states that are two-party.
01:03:45
◼
►
Shoot, I lost the list, but somewhere around here.
01:03:47
◼
►
I believe Massachusetts--
01:03:47
◼
►
- California's a big one.
01:03:49
◼
►
- Oh, here it is.
01:03:50
◼
►
California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland,
01:03:51
◼
►
Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire,
01:03:53
◼
►
Pennsylvania, and Washington.
01:03:55
◼
►
Not New York, apparently.
01:03:56
◼
►
- Yeah, and again, this is not the first thing
01:03:58
◼
►
that records your screen.
01:04:00
◼
►
Screen recorders exist and have existed forever,
01:04:02
◼
►
and all the legal things are also caught by that.
01:04:04
◼
►
And in my time in corporate America in the latter years,
01:04:08
◼
►
we routinely recorded every meeting.
01:04:10
◼
►
It's basically like, oh, for people who couldn't show up
01:04:11
◼
►
to the meeting, make sure we record it,
01:04:13
◼
►
and it would get shoved into the cloud somewhere,
01:04:15
◼
►
and some Microsoft thing, and then other people
01:04:16
◼
►
would be able to view the meeting.
01:04:17
◼
►
So recording meetings is not a thing that really happens.
01:04:20
◼
►
What didn't happen as often is someone locally recording
01:04:22
◼
►
using a third-party piece of software that they installed,
01:04:24
◼
►
like it gets recorded and pushed to the Microsoft OneDrive
01:04:28
◼
►
through the Microsoft Teams thing or whatever.
01:04:29
◼
►
That is a feature that most people who work in corporations
01:04:32
◼
►
want, but they wanna be able to control it.
01:04:34
◼
►
So it's not like this is letting the recording
01:04:36
◼
►
or screen-reading out of the bottle,
01:04:37
◼
►
but the idea of it being pervasive,
01:04:39
◼
►
because to get the value of it,
01:04:40
◼
►
it kind of has to be pervasive.
01:04:42
◼
►
And maybe you could just say,
01:04:43
◼
►
I would just run that on my home computer,
01:04:44
◼
►
not my work computer, but that also kind of cuts into things
01:04:47
◼
►
if the thing that was sent to you was like a message,
01:04:49
◼
►
a non-work related message sent to you in messages,
01:04:52
◼
►
you're not gonna see it
01:04:53
◼
►
if you go through your live stream later at home.
01:04:57
◼
►
So here's what the CEO had to say about it
01:04:59
◼
►
in a little Twitter thread
01:05:00
◼
►
to sort of explain why his product is okay.
01:05:03
◼
►
Local and private by design.
01:05:06
◼
►
We record anything you've seen, said, or heard
01:05:08
◼
►
and make it searchable.
01:05:09
◼
►
For your privacy, we store all of the recordings
01:05:10
◼
►
locally on your Mac, only you have access to them.
01:05:12
◼
►
So as you would imagine, if they're trying to not be
01:05:15
◼
►
immediately, ridiculously evil,
01:05:16
◼
►
they do not take these recordings.
01:05:18
◼
►
If you're a local computer and throw it into the cloud,
01:05:19
◼
►
it's all just on your Mac.
01:05:21
◼
►
It's, you know, it's all local, right?
01:05:23
◼
►
Mind boggling compression.
01:05:25
◼
►
This gets to the technical feasibility.
01:05:26
◼
►
How can I record everything that's happening
01:05:28
◼
►
on my screen all day without filling my disc, right?
01:05:30
◼
►
Starring all the recordings locally
01:05:31
◼
►
means compression is very important.
01:05:33
◼
►
We compress raw data up to 3,750 times.
01:05:37
◼
►
What an odd number.
01:05:38
◼
►
Without major loss of quality, for example,
01:05:40
◼
►
10.5 gigabytes of raw recording data
01:05:42
◼
►
becomes 2.8 megabytes.
01:05:43
◼
►
And then finally, no cloud integration or IT required.
01:05:46
◼
►
In order to enable you to search anything you've seen,
01:05:47
◼
►
we use native Mac OS APIs with its optical character
01:05:50
◼
►
recognition to recognize and index all the words
01:05:52
◼
►
that appear in your screen.
01:05:52
◼
►
So it's all happening locally.
01:05:54
◼
►
It's all on your device.
01:05:55
◼
►
And they're able to compress things
01:05:57
◼
►
so that they get down to size.
01:05:58
◼
►
And in terms of the-- they also touted their VC funding,
01:06:01
◼
►
which is why everybody knows about it.
01:06:03
◼
►
In terms of the business bottle, here's
01:06:04
◼
►
something they had to say.
01:06:05
◼
►
I think this is on their website,
01:06:06
◼
►
on the how much does rewind cost.
01:06:07
◼
►
Rewind is completely free for now.
01:06:09
◼
►
Not reassuring, company.
01:06:11
◼
►
- Don't put an exclamation on that, not reassuring.
01:06:12
◼
►
Anyway, we plan to offer a free product indefinitely,
01:06:15
◼
►
I'll bet, and for users to get a ton of value,
01:06:17
◼
►
we will charge them a monthly subscription,
01:06:19
◼
►
AKA freemium.
01:06:20
◼
►
And then this is, this is not getting better here.
01:06:23
◼
►
We aren't yet sure what the price will be
01:06:24
◼
►
or what the features will be in the free product
01:06:26
◼
►
versus the paid product.
01:06:27
◼
►
We'll make that decision based on feedback we get.
01:06:29
◼
►
One thing's for sure,
01:06:30
◼
►
we will never sell your data or do advertising.
01:06:33
◼
►
Are you sure about that?
01:06:34
◼
►
- See, I would like to know what was their pitch
01:06:37
◼
►
to the VCs, because I bet it contains
01:06:39
◼
►
much more detail than that.
01:06:41
◼
►
- I mean, they didn't get a huge amount of VC money,
01:06:43
◼
►
and the person who, the CEO also had previously,
01:06:46
◼
►
I think he was from Optimizely, which got--
01:06:48
◼
►
- I love, hold on, just the ridiculousness
01:06:50
◼
►
of like $10 million not being a huge,
01:06:52
◼
►
and you're right, like in terms of,
01:06:54
◼
►
but it's just, it's ridiculous.
01:06:56
◼
►
- You know what I mean, but like in the grand scheme,
01:06:57
◼
►
this is Andreessen Horowitz.
01:07:00
◼
►
It's a big VC company, and he's had a successful company
01:07:03
◼
►
that presumably he did well for the VCs
01:07:04
◼
►
and when they invested in that company,
01:07:05
◼
►
that's why he invested in his new company.
01:07:07
◼
►
So here's the thing about this feature.
01:07:09
◼
►
If you had gone back to my childhood
01:07:11
◼
►
and found some technically minded adults
01:07:13
◼
►
and said that a company's gonna make a product
01:07:15
◼
►
that keeps track of our location all day, every day,
01:07:18
◼
►
and makes that information accessible
01:07:20
◼
►
to other people potentially,
01:07:22
◼
►
they would say, "What, someone's gonna spy me
01:07:24
◼
►
"and know where I am all the time?
01:07:25
◼
►
"My device is gonna track my location on the Earth
01:07:28
◼
►
"24 hours a day?
01:07:29
◼
►
"This is a dystopian nightmare.
01:07:30
◼
►
"We all have phones and we don't care about that."
01:07:32
◼
►
It's like, well, it's just location data
01:07:33
◼
►
and we trust Apple not to share with anybody.
01:07:35
◼
►
And yeah, there was that thing where Google accidentally,
01:07:37
◼
►
we let people get at every location and see that you're,
01:07:39
◼
►
you know, where you go during the day.
01:07:41
◼
►
Like there is kind of a,
01:07:43
◼
►
an acclimation to technology tracking things
01:07:47
◼
►
that were previously seemed like the surveillance state.
01:07:50
◼
►
So, I mean, how many people use their phones
01:07:52
◼
►
and turn location off so it's never tracked?
01:07:53
◼
►
None of us do that because there's just so much utility
01:07:56
◼
►
for a device that knows where we are.
01:07:58
◼
►
Whether it's find my friends to find out
01:08:00
◼
►
where people in your family are,
01:08:01
◼
►
or just being able to set a reminder
01:08:02
◼
►
so it knows when you get back home,
01:08:04
◼
►
or maps features, or keeping track of your runs,
01:08:08
◼
►
or how many steps you've taken and where you walked.
01:08:10
◼
►
We have pretty much all accepted
01:08:12
◼
►
and found a vendor that we can trust well enough
01:08:16
◼
►
that we're okay essentially carrying a tracker around.
01:08:19
◼
►
We're carrying a tracker around with us all day.
01:08:21
◼
►
It's always keeping track of where we are
01:08:22
◼
►
and it's recording it.
01:08:23
◼
►
And we're like, yeah, we've worked out the kinks in that.
01:08:26
◼
►
People are mostly okay with it.
01:08:28
◼
►
But if you had dumped in somebody from the '70s
01:08:31
◼
►
and describe that, it'd be like, no, I don't want this tracker.
01:08:34
◼
►
Yes, it's an amazing peak of technology,
01:08:36
◼
►
but I don't want it to be tracked.
01:08:37
◼
►
And oh, you say it's only on the device,
01:08:39
◼
►
or it's shared in this cloud.
01:08:40
◼
►
You describe it, you say it's safe,
01:08:41
◼
►
and it can't-- like, you have to do so much reassurance
01:08:44
◼
►
and explaining of the cultural context for that to be OK.
01:08:47
◼
►
Part of the reason that happened is
01:08:49
◼
►
because we passed the technical threshold where doing that
01:08:51
◼
►
is not prohibitive.
01:08:53
◼
►
I'm not entirely sure that we have passed the threshold.
01:08:56
◼
►
We're doing full screen recording or per window
01:09:00
◼
►
recording an OCR is not oppressive because especially if you're on a laptop
01:09:03
◼
►
it's gonna hurt your battery like there's a page on this site that says
01:09:07
◼
►
look we're using the imaging powers of the M1 SoC to do all this compression
01:09:11
◼
►
and I bet they are but every one of those little things takes power and that
01:09:16
◼
►
you know especially on battery-powered devices like laptops but even on like a
01:09:19
◼
►
desktop you're burning CPU cycles doing this thing that presumably will have
01:09:24
◼
►
value later but you're burning it all the time like I mean again to get value
01:09:29
◼
►
out of it, you can't just like run it for one hour a day.
01:09:31
◼
►
You have to run it all the time.
01:09:33
◼
►
So I do feel like the utility of this,
01:09:36
◼
►
if this could exist immediately and magically work
01:09:40
◼
►
and like be seamless and not impact your life
01:09:43
◼
►
and not impact battery life,
01:09:45
◼
►
I think the utility of it actually is tremendous,
01:09:49
◼
►
but like getting over the hump of from where we are now
01:09:54
◼
►
where it's not and people are scared of it
01:09:56
◼
►
to the other side where it's just as scary
01:09:59
◼
►
in the wrong hands,
01:10:01
◼
►
but people are now used to the utility of it,
01:10:03
◼
►
is kind of inevitable as everything,
01:10:07
◼
►
I don't know if this is gonna happen,
01:10:08
◼
►
but I've always talked about this before,
01:10:09
◼
►
of like technology catching up with our perceptions, right?
01:10:12
◼
►
So audio, we've got the technology
01:10:14
◼
►
to make audio good enough for our human ears.
01:10:16
◼
►
Like we can do it.
01:10:17
◼
►
Like even if you're a crazy audio file person
01:10:19
◼
►
who wants 192 kilohertz, whatever, 48 bit,
01:10:22
◼
►
like we can do that, it's no problem.
01:10:24
◼
►
audio does not need to get better for humans
01:10:26
◼
►
until and unless we evolve better hearing,
01:10:28
◼
►
and that's gonna take a long time, right?
01:10:30
◼
►
We haven't caught up with video
01:10:31
◼
►
'cause video still is pixelated and it's not 3D
01:10:34
◼
►
like our eyes see and you know, blah, blah, blah.
01:10:36
◼
►
But if Moore's law continues long enough,
01:10:39
◼
►
and eventually Moore's law does stop
01:10:41
◼
►
'cause you can't make things smaller forever,
01:10:42
◼
►
see quantum physics, right?
01:10:44
◼
►
If Moore's law continues long enough
01:10:46
◼
►
that we max out on audio, vision, smell, touch,
01:10:51
◼
►
like all our senses basically,
01:10:53
◼
►
and we still have some more like doublings
01:10:57
◼
►
of transistor density to go,
01:10:59
◼
►
we're gonna get lifestreams whether we like it or not
01:11:01
◼
►
because it'll basically be free
01:11:02
◼
►
and to not do it would seem like wasteful, right?
01:11:06
◼
►
And hopefully we will have the security things
01:11:07
◼
►
worked out then hopefully we're all didn't die
01:11:09
◼
►
in the water wars like there are many caveats
01:11:11
◼
►
to what I'm describing here in this particular
01:11:13
◼
►
timescale argument.
01:11:14
◼
►
But the utility of this is tremendous
01:11:17
◼
►
because if I said, look,
01:11:19
◼
►
we're not gonna do any privacy things
01:11:20
◼
►
but now a genie has granted you a wish
01:11:22
◼
►
and you can go back to any moment and find anything
01:11:26
◼
►
and where was that thing?
01:11:27
◼
►
Like you have that magical ability, it's not technology,
01:11:28
◼
►
it's literally magic.
01:11:30
◼
►
People would take that in a second.
01:11:31
◼
►
It's a superpower.
01:11:32
◼
►
It's this kind of superpowers that computers give us.
01:11:35
◼
►
Things that we can't do easily as human,
01:11:37
◼
►
like remembering things or erasing things perfectly
01:11:39
◼
►
or whatever, like computers can do.
01:11:42
◼
►
They give us the power to do that.
01:11:44
◼
►
This would be a superpower that computers could give us
01:11:47
◼
►
if it could be harnessed in a way that we find acceptable
01:11:49
◼
►
and doesn't totally destroy our lives.
01:11:51
◼
►
Is 2022 the time and the place for that to happen on Mac OS
01:11:56
◼
►
from a VC funded company?
01:11:59
◼
►
Probably not, but I remain fascinated by the idea
01:12:03
◼
►
and I think the utility of the idea is unavoidable.
01:12:08
◼
►
Eventually, if we have excess computing capacity,
01:12:11
◼
►
somebody's gonna do it and some generation of people
01:12:13
◼
►
are gonna grow up and they're gonna think of it
01:12:14
◼
►
the way we think about our phone's GPS tracking
01:12:17
◼
►
or the way we think about Google searches.
01:12:18
◼
►
Just as part of life, that it would be barbaric
01:12:21
◼
►
live without because what the heck is the point of computers if not to do this thing?
01:12:24
◼
►
It was interesting watching the intro video as well, which is literally a minute, I think,
01:12:29
◼
►
to the second. And the CEO, Dan Soracher, I probably pronounced that wrong, but anyways,
01:12:34
◼
►
he said that he went deaf or, you know, lost a lot of hearing in his 30s and then was able to get it
01:12:41
◼
►
back by way of a hearing aid. And then he thought to himself, allegedly, you know, well, what else
01:12:45
◼
►
could we apply this principle to? Like, how else can we like supercharge a human being? And, and
01:12:50
◼
►
And he eventually landed on, well, what if you had perfect memory?
01:12:53
◼
►
And that's kind of what this rewind thing is trying to do.
01:12:57
◼
►
I don't know, I have very mixed feelings about it.
01:13:00
◼
►
I like the fact that somebody is doing something innovative on Mac OS, because that seems to
01:13:05
◼
►
be happening so rarely these days.
01:13:08
◼
►
It is funny, like you had said, John, you know, unleashes Apple Silicon.
01:13:12
◼
►
Rewind utilizes virtually every part of Apple's silicon system on a chip.
01:13:16
◼
►
rewind doesn't tax system resources like CPU and memory while recording allegedly.
01:13:20
◼
►
It uses every part of the SoC but doesn't tax CPU. You know CPU is part of the SoC.
01:13:26
◼
►
And either way when you're using parts that don't count as a CPU, I'm not using the CPU,
01:13:30
◼
►
I'm using the H.265 encoder. That still uses electricity. Like I know it uses less than doing
01:13:37
◼
►
it on the CPU but like there's no avoiding the there is technical overhead for doing this.
01:13:42
◼
►
Technical overhead for the compression, there's technical overhead for doing this the I/O for the
01:13:45
◼
►
the storage and there's overhead of actually doing the screen recording.
01:13:49
◼
►
It's not huge overhead, and I think our machines can mostly handle it, but it is going to impact
01:13:53
◼
►
your battery life some amount.
01:13:54
◼
►
I don't think they throw out any figures of like, "1% worse battery life," or "4% we don't
01:13:59
◼
►
know what it is," but it's not zero.
01:14:01
◼
►
Yeah, but I don't know.
01:14:03
◼
►
As someone who genuinely has a pretty crummy memory, I find this very fascinating.
01:14:10
◼
►
It is not often that I think to myself, "Oh, where did I see that thing?"
01:14:15
◼
►
But it definitely happens.
01:14:16
◼
►
And in a situation where I felt like I could trust
01:14:19
◼
►
whatever vendor is providing this service,
01:14:23
◼
►
I would probably be interested in it.
01:14:25
◼
►
But I echo what both of you, particularly Marco,
01:14:27
◼
►
was saying about the privacy implications,
01:14:30
◼
►
about the consent implications.
01:14:33
◼
►
Like, yeah, I guess every time I speak to anyone
01:14:35
◼
►
on my computer, I can ask them if I have their consent
01:14:38
◼
►
to record them.
01:14:39
◼
►
- Or you could turn it off like it was a big switch
01:14:41
◼
►
in the menu bar.
01:14:42
◼
►
Like if, you know, again, it cuts into the value
01:14:44
◼
►
if you turn it off, but it's a thing that you could do.
01:14:46
◼
►
- But nevertheless, like,
01:14:47
◼
►
I think this is a very fascinating idea.
01:14:49
◼
►
And the fact that this group of people seems to claim
01:14:53
◼
►
that they can realize this idea, that's super cool.
01:14:57
◼
►
Now I'm skeptical that that's reality,
01:14:59
◼
►
but I dig the demo, if nothing else.
01:15:02
◼
►
Now maybe it's all smoke and mirrors,
01:15:03
◼
►
but it looked really slick.
01:15:05
◼
►
So I don't know, I would definitely be interested in this.
01:15:08
◼
►
I put my name or my email in the list
01:15:11
◼
►
just because I'd like to toy with it for a minute
01:15:12
◼
►
and see what it does.
01:15:14
◼
►
But a lot of the incentives that I see,
01:15:18
◼
►
namely the fact that it's VC funded,
01:15:21
◼
►
and they don't really seem to know
01:15:22
◼
►
how they're gonna make money,
01:15:23
◼
►
that does not align well with the incentives
01:15:26
◼
►
I want them to have,
01:15:27
◼
►
which is privacy beyond anything else.
01:15:30
◼
►
Efficiency is a second tier, right behind privacy.
01:15:34
◼
►
I don't know, I'm very skeptical.
01:15:36
◼
►
Quick aside, by the way,
01:15:37
◼
►
I just realized a few minutes ago
01:15:40
◼
►
where A16Z came from. Did you know this? I think I figured it out.
01:15:43
◼
►
And I had like, everybody knows, but you, I everyone, but new.
01:15:46
◼
►
Did you know that the Beatles is a music pun?
01:15:49
◼
►
I did actually know that. Um, but I had no idea it was all the,
01:15:53
◼
►
it was 16 characters between the A and the Z anyways. Um, I don't know.
01:15:56
◼
►
Would you use the, let me start with Marco. Would you use this both,
01:15:59
◼
►
both rewind specifically and a fantasy, let's call it Apple.
01:16:04
◼
►
Yes, I agree with all you were saying about Apple and services, but you know,
01:16:08
◼
►
Would you use an Apple-provided version of rewind?
01:16:11
◼
►
Would you use the rewind-provided version of rewind?
01:16:13
◼
►
Let me start with Marco and then John,
01:16:14
◼
►
I'd like to hear your two cents.
01:16:16
◼
►
- I just, I don't see this ever being a thing
01:16:20
◼
►
that is worth the risk.
01:16:23
◼
►
It's almost like, imagine if nuclear power
01:16:26
◼
►
was far less safe than it really is.
01:16:29
◼
►
And so imagine, so it'd be like, yeah,
01:16:32
◼
►
there's value in generating this power,
01:16:33
◼
►
but every couple of years it's gonna have a giant meltdown.
01:16:36
◼
►
and I was like, well, maybe that's not worth it.
01:16:38
◼
►
And I know in reality this is a bad metaphor
01:16:40
◼
►
because it's way safer, but anyway.
01:16:42
◼
►
I think you look at this product and like,
01:16:47
◼
►
first of all, even if we ignore the VC part of it,
01:16:51
◼
►
just conceptually a product like this,
01:16:54
◼
►
well, the very first thing it's gonna have to do
01:16:57
◼
►
is add multi-device sync,
01:16:59
◼
►
because that's the very first feature request
01:17:01
◼
►
people are gonna have, because they're gonna go,
01:17:02
◼
►
oh, I was doing this thing,
01:17:05
◼
►
But I forget whether it was on my desktop or my laptop
01:17:08
◼
►
or my phone or my tablet.
01:17:10
◼
►
So you're gonna have, and I guess you can't really do
01:17:12
◼
►
any of this on iOS, but who knows how they would
01:17:15
◼
►
get around that, but anyway.
01:17:17
◼
►
So like, you can start to see, all right,
01:17:19
◼
►
the very first thing people are gonna want
01:17:20
◼
►
is something that's gonna require them to have this data
01:17:23
◼
►
synced somehow between devices and therefore
01:17:26
◼
►
probably stored on some kind of server, maybe encrypted.
01:17:30
◼
►
So there's already like a lot of red flags even there.
01:17:33
◼
►
But again, even if you just stick with
01:17:35
◼
►
what they've announced and you assume
01:17:37
◼
►
they will never need money,
01:17:38
◼
►
and so all that's off the table,
01:17:40
◼
►
all those concerns are off the table,
01:17:42
◼
►
and again, even heck, even assume,
01:17:45
◼
►
not only Apple did it, but Apple of 15 years ago did it,
01:17:49
◼
►
before they really got into the ad business.
01:17:51
◼
►
Even with all those assumptions,
01:17:53
◼
►
I think this is creating a massive liability
01:17:57
◼
►
that the liability is greater
01:18:00
◼
►
than the value that it creates.
01:18:02
◼
►
And I cannot see this going well long-term for the people who
01:18:09
◼
►
I also signed up for the thing.
01:18:10
◼
►
I'll definitely try it out of technical curiosity.
01:18:13
◼
►
When I talked about the way Apple might implement this,
01:18:15
◼
►
because they're the platform owner,
01:18:16
◼
►
they have more invasive access to apps running on the system.
01:18:19
◼
►
And also, they can do a thing that third parties can't,
01:18:22
◼
►
which is they can vend APIs that third parties can then
01:18:24
◼
►
adopt to sort of opt into this.
01:18:26
◼
►
So it can be both more efficient and more privacy preserving
01:18:29
◼
►
and with sort of like an impartial referee in the middle
01:18:32
◼
►
being Apple the platform owner,
01:18:34
◼
►
kind of like how does location services work?
01:18:36
◼
►
Like it's an Apple vended API that they control
01:18:38
◼
►
and Apple is able to control the privacy of it
01:18:41
◼
►
to some degree through both the App Store
01:18:43
◼
►
and the way the APIs work.
01:18:44
◼
►
And same thing with sandboxing and a lot of things like that.
01:18:47
◼
►
That's why I envisioned Apple trying to,
01:18:50
◼
►
being able to pull this off in a more secure way.
01:18:51
◼
►
I still think the technical overhead of it
01:18:53
◼
►
is probably not worth the trade off,
01:18:55
◼
►
but like I was saying before
01:18:57
◼
►
with the sort of long-term thinking about this
01:19:00
◼
►
and how we think about GPS.
01:19:02
◼
►
I mean, there are tons of technologies
01:19:05
◼
►
that have terrible privacy implications
01:19:10
◼
►
that we don't like as tech nerds who are sensitive to this,
01:19:13
◼
►
but the world disagrees, like Facebook, for example, right?
01:19:17
◼
►
Or so many things having to do with the web.
01:19:20
◼
►
- Or even like workplace man-of-the-middle security products.
01:19:23
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, the workplace ones, I think,
01:19:27
◼
►
kind of more justifiable because it's like at least you at least that you know what you're getting into there and it's your employer and you
01:19:31
◼
►
Could separate your personal or whatever things like Facebook
01:19:33
◼
►
We're like, oh just give them access to your whole life and they will sell ads against it and like
01:19:37
◼
►
You know people have different thresholds for how much they care about this and it seems like there are a lot of things
01:19:44
◼
►
That may be terrible for privacy
01:19:46
◼
►
but also clear pretty much everybody's threshold right and
01:19:49
◼
►
A product like this is probably only one generation away setting aside the technical hurdles from clearing
01:19:56
◼
►
enough people's threshold that it doesn't matter.
01:20:00
◼
►
Who cares if everybody listening to ADP
01:20:02
◼
►
is horrified by it, right?
01:20:03
◼
►
That the masses writ large have different,
01:20:07
◼
►
make different trade-offs, they have different weights
01:20:09
◼
►
and different values to these different things.
01:20:11
◼
►
When they weigh X against Y, they're like,
01:20:13
◼
►
"Oh, Facebook, I see cool pictures of my friends
01:20:14
◼
►
"and have fun.
01:20:15
◼
►
"Told, you know, privacy destroy anything?"
01:20:17
◼
►
I don't care about that, it's weird, esoteric,
01:20:19
◼
►
I'm not a tech nerd, who cares, right?
01:20:21
◼
►
I'm not saying they're right, obviously we disagree
01:20:23
◼
►
with that, but if you think like,
01:20:25
◼
►
I don't see this ever catching on
01:20:26
◼
►
'cause I find it distasteful.
01:20:28
◼
►
I don't think that's, you know,
01:20:31
◼
►
my pessimistic view is that's not gonna save us.
01:20:34
◼
►
In terms of like me trying this for real,
01:20:39
◼
►
like, oh, will you run this on your computer all day?
01:20:42
◼
►
Right now, I have to say no.
01:20:43
◼
►
Like I'm interested in seeing it run.
01:20:45
◼
►
I wanna see how it works,
01:20:46
◼
►
but my personal trade-off is as annoyed as I am
01:20:50
◼
►
when I can't find something,
01:20:51
◼
►
I'm not annoyed enough to give this.
01:20:54
◼
►
But someday I'm going to get old and die,
01:20:56
◼
►
and then the next generation of people
01:20:58
◼
►
may not have the same foibles that I have.
01:21:01
◼
►
And the thing I mentioned,
01:21:02
◼
►
dystopian sci-fi, I'm reusing this issue a lot.
01:21:05
◼
►
Someone in the chat room pointed out
01:21:06
◼
►
that there was an episode of Black Mirror
01:21:08
◼
►
that touches on this exactly.
01:21:10
◼
►
I've seen every episode of Black Mirror,
01:21:11
◼
►
and so I vaguely remembered it,
01:21:13
◼
►
but they looked it up for me.
01:21:13
◼
►
It's the entire history of you.
01:21:14
◼
►
It's more about, hey, if you have the ability
01:21:16
◼
►
to go back and look at any of your memories
01:21:18
◼
►
'cause your whole life is recorded,
01:21:19
◼
►
maybe you'll obsessively go back and look at a memory
01:21:21
◼
►
that's like, you know, that you'll sort of like spiral
01:21:25
◼
►
on that one memory and keep obsessing over it
01:21:26
◼
►
and looking at every corner or whatever.
01:21:28
◼
►
It's kind of like a romance and someone's like, you know,
01:21:30
◼
►
I think it was like someone was cheating on someone else
01:21:32
◼
►
and someone's rewinding the memory and looking at it.
01:21:33
◼
►
- This would be my personal hell.
01:21:35
◼
►
Like I'd be so tempted to like go back to like middle school
01:21:37
◼
►
and then I would just torture myself
01:21:39
◼
►
with like all the dumb crap I did and said and acted like,
01:21:43
◼
►
- Yeah, I mean, like again, Black Mirror is not a,
01:21:46
◼
►
you know, it's not a happy show.
01:21:49
◼
►
Although San Junipero is the best episode
01:21:51
◼
►
the entire series and it stands alone.
01:21:53
◼
►
It is not a series of continuity.
01:21:54
◼
►
So you like these, these are independent for the most part,
01:21:57
◼
►
independent episodes.
01:21:57
◼
►
So just watch San Junipero, just find that one episode.
01:22:00
◼
►
I forgot which season and what episode it's for.
01:22:02
◼
►
It's S-A-N space, J-U-N-I-P-E-R-O.
01:22:05
◼
►
Put a link in the show notes.
01:22:06
◼
►
That episode is worth watching
01:22:08
◼
►
and is one of the best episodes of television ever.
01:22:09
◼
►
And it is totally standalone.
01:22:11
◼
►
You need no continuity,
01:22:12
◼
►
but every other episode of Black Mirror is so grim.
01:22:15
◼
►
And the entire history of you is also grim.
01:22:17
◼
►
And I'm sure there have been decades and decades
01:22:20
◼
►
sci-fi novels that have examined what it would be like if every moment of our lives was recorded
01:22:25
◼
►
by us, by a totalitarian state that's ruling over us, by aliens. There are so many things in there
01:22:31
◼
►
that are scary to us, which is why companies like this are trying to be careful with how
01:22:34
◼
►
they introduce this technology. But I pretty much do feel that something like this is unavoidable,
01:22:40
◼
►
as long as technology, as long as Moore's Law continues long enough to get us into a place
01:22:46
◼
►
where this can be implemented in such a way that it like that the technical trade-off and the battery
01:22:51
◼
►
life trade-off or whatever are rendered moot and then it's just a matter of who's bothered by it
01:22:55
◼
►
we'll all be gone so we don't have to worry about it and i think the generation of people who live
01:22:59
◼
►
there probably go that's useful i'll do that and they'll care about privacy they won't want it to
01:23:03
◼
►
be super bad and you know if we've done well as a human race we will have implemented laws that
01:23:09
◼
►
protect our privacy much more than we have today but i'm not feeling particularly optimistic about
01:23:14
◼
►
about that at this moment in 2022.
01:23:15
◼
►
So check again in a hundred years.
01:23:18
◼
►
- I forgot to mention,
01:23:19
◼
►
and the how does the recording of meetings work
01:23:23
◼
►
in the Rewind website?
01:23:25
◼
►
Where's the data sent?
01:23:27
◼
►
Video data is never sent off your Mac.
01:23:29
◼
►
The only data sent to a cloud service is the audio.
01:23:32
◼
►
We send it to a cloud transcription service
01:23:34
◼
►
in order to generate a transcript of what was said.
01:23:36
◼
►
This transcript is created so you can read it
01:23:38
◼
►
and search for specific words that were said.
01:23:42
◼
►
- Nope, nope, nope.
01:23:43
◼
►
- It's on device too, but maybe that's the one
01:23:45
◼
►
that kills the battery, you know,
01:23:46
◼
►
like maybe that eats up the CPU,
01:23:48
◼
►
maybe the speech attacks is not as good on Apple's system.
01:23:52
◼
►
- As Jason H says in the chat room,
01:23:54
◼
►
every episode of Black Mirror ends up
01:23:56
◼
►
on a tech company's roadmap.
01:23:59
◼
►
- Oh no, this, 'cause that's the thing,
01:24:01
◼
►
like, it's so easy to see like, oh well,
01:24:05
◼
►
we're gonna poke this hole in our security model
01:24:07
◼
►
that we previously established or that you thought you had
01:24:10
◼
►
in order to provide this great value.
01:24:12
◼
►
Now there's one hole already.
01:24:13
◼
►
Oh, we gotta send your audio off to a cloud thing.
01:24:16
◼
►
Okay, well, what's next?
01:24:18
◼
►
It's so easy to make a couple little exceptions.
01:24:21
◼
►
Well, we have to make this exception here
01:24:23
◼
►
to provide value to you and/or us.
01:24:25
◼
►
But that becomes so easy to do.
01:24:28
◼
►
Once there's any holes, oh, we'll just add a little more
01:24:32
◼
►
here, just a little more.
01:24:33
◼
►
Oh, one more little exception here.
01:24:35
◼
►
And again, the liability of this is so high,
01:24:39
◼
►
it is not worth even creating.
01:24:42
◼
►
I do think it's a very interesting technical challenge with what appears to be a very interesting
01:24:48
◼
►
solution, but yeah, the more I think about it—and I was already getting the heebie-jeebies
01:24:53
◼
►
to begin with, but the more I think about it, the heebie-er my geebies get, if you will.
01:24:58
◼
►
It is creepy.
01:24:59
◼
►
You know what else is creepy?
01:25:02
◼
►
Elon Musk officially owns Twitter now.
01:25:05
◼
►
I don't even know what to say about this.
01:25:09
◼
►
People are acting like this is some kind of massive change and huge turn for the worse.
01:25:15
◼
►
Now I think this is not good in absolute terms.
01:25:20
◼
►
However, in relative terms to the way Twitter has always been led, I don't know that it's
01:25:27
◼
►
that much worse.
01:25:29
◼
►
Twitter has always been terribly led by horrible people.
01:25:33
◼
►
It's never been well moderated.
01:25:36
◼
►
It's been terribly led, but has it been terribly led by people who have ideas that are as wrong
01:25:44
◼
►
Yes, it has!
01:25:45
◼
►
I don't think so.
01:25:50
◼
►
The reason we all think Twitter has been mismanaged is because the crew that was running Twitter
01:25:54
◼
►
for all these years has just seemed unable to do anything.
01:25:57
◼
►
So it was like status quo was the safe move.
01:26:00
◼
►
Because like, "Hey, we've got this thing.
01:26:03
◼
►
It's kicking off where it's becoming super popular."
01:26:06
◼
►
becoming part of the culture, it's blah, blah, blah.
01:26:08
◼
►
Let's just not rock the boat.
01:26:09
◼
►
So they did nothing for Twitter, to Twitter for so long.
01:26:12
◼
►
They didn't really figure out how to make a lot of money.
01:26:13
◼
►
They made money, but they didn't make a lot of money.
01:26:16
◼
►
They could have made potentially more money.
01:26:18
◼
►
They didn't add features, that's for sure.
01:26:20
◼
►
They screwed third party developers
01:26:21
◼
►
and then kinda like backed off a little bit on that.
01:26:23
◼
►
Like they didn't do a great job,
01:26:25
◼
►
but it was mostly inaction.
01:26:26
◼
►
It was people who didn't have any good ideas.
01:26:29
◼
►
The best idea they had was,
01:26:30
◼
►
it seemed to me that they understood
01:26:32
◼
►
the limits of their competence.
01:26:34
◼
►
They were like, we don't know what to do.
01:26:35
◼
►
So let's just not do anything,
01:26:37
◼
►
which is not good leadership, to be clear,
01:26:39
◼
►
but it is different than, I know what we should do,
01:26:42
◼
►
we should do bad things.
01:26:44
◼
►
Now, Elon Musk, to be fair, says lots of crap.
01:26:46
◼
►
You have no idea what he's gonna do,
01:26:47
◼
►
it's just kind of like it's hard to talk about
01:26:49
◼
►
his owning Twitter until he actually does anything.
01:26:51
◼
►
You can't really pay attention to what he says,
01:26:53
◼
►
he says a lot of things, right?
01:26:55
◼
►
But a lot of the things he says make the world think,
01:26:59
◼
►
I don't like those ideas, and if you were to do them,
01:27:02
◼
►
I would be sad.
01:27:03
◼
►
And that's different than the people
01:27:04
◼
►
who were running Twitter before.
01:27:05
◼
►
The people who were on Twitter before
01:27:06
◼
►
weren't constantly saying,
01:27:07
◼
►
"We wanna let more Nazis back."
01:27:10
◼
►
They weren't saying that.
01:27:11
◼
►
What they were saying is,
01:27:11
◼
►
we're trying to get rid of them,
01:27:12
◼
►
but it's hard and we're incompetent.
01:27:14
◼
►
Which is not, again, not good leadership.
01:27:17
◼
►
The way they handled moderation was not good,
01:27:21
◼
►
but in general, the noises they made was,
01:27:25
◼
►
"We agree that this should be better than it is,
01:27:27
◼
►
"and we're trying to make it better,
01:27:28
◼
►
"and we're failing at making it better."
01:27:31
◼
►
That's very different than saying,
01:27:33
◼
►
"Actually, I think we should make it worse."
01:27:35
◼
►
And that's what a lot of people hear
01:27:36
◼
►
when they hear Elon Musk speak,
01:27:38
◼
►
'cause he has ideas that we say,
01:27:39
◼
►
"No, that would make everything worse."
01:27:40
◼
►
And he's like, "Yeah, isn't that great?"
01:27:42
◼
►
And that's why Elon Musk potentially is way, way worse
01:27:45
◼
►
than the incredibly incompetent people
01:27:47
◼
►
who were running Twitter before.
01:27:48
◼
►
- See, I think people are forgetting some of the details
01:27:51
◼
►
of how crappily Twitter has been run.
01:27:54
◼
►
And I'm not just talking about product direction.
01:27:58
◼
►
We can say things like,
01:27:59
◼
►
"Oh, they should have had edit tweet," or whatever.
01:28:02
◼
►
That's one area, and honestly, it's hard to imagine
01:28:05
◼
►
anybody doing worse than what Twitter has been doing
01:28:07
◼
►
to date in that area, but you know, I think it's--
01:28:09
◼
►
- Don't forget Killing Vine and stuff like that.
01:28:11
◼
►
They just generally didn't know what to do.
01:28:12
◼
►
- But I think it's important to remember
01:28:15
◼
►
Twitter's past leadership was extremely libertarian,
01:28:20
◼
►
extremely hands-off with moderation,
01:28:23
◼
►
and let a whole bunch of hate and Nazis
01:28:27
◼
►
and horrible stuff on the platform indefinitely
01:28:29
◼
►
with poor controls and poor enforcement.
01:28:32
◼
►
- But which direction did they go in?
01:28:33
◼
►
They went in the direction of improving that
01:28:35
◼
►
incredibly slowly and not to the level
01:28:38
◼
►
that we find acceptable,
01:28:39
◼
►
but it didn't go in the other direction.
01:28:41
◼
►
There was no sort of consensus with the leadership
01:28:43
◼
►
that in fact, you know how bad it is now?
01:28:45
◼
►
We should make it worse.
01:28:46
◼
►
Instead they said, okay, we kind of grudgingly agreed
01:28:49
◼
►
that maybe we should make it better,
01:28:50
◼
►
and they acted too slowly and did a bad job.
01:28:52
◼
►
But directionally, they were not heading
01:28:54
◼
►
in the wrong direction, they were heading
01:28:55
◼
►
the right direction from a place of terribleness too slow.
01:28:58
◼
►
- Mm, I think they were so far from right before,
01:29:03
◼
►
and I don't mean right as a conservative,
01:29:04
◼
►
I mean right as incorrect,
01:29:05
◼
►
they were so far from good before
01:29:09
◼
►
that I don't even know if we can judge their micro moves
01:29:12
◼
►
as being even in the right direction.
01:29:14
◼
►
- They did move in the right direction
01:29:16
◼
►
and did make important proves,
01:29:18
◼
►
especially within the last few years.
01:29:20
◼
►
- Here's the thing, everyone points to like,
01:29:24
◼
►
oh look, Twitter finally kicked off Donald Trump.
01:29:28
◼
►
You know when Twitter kicked off Donald Trump,
01:29:29
◼
►
the second his term was clearly done,
01:29:33
◼
►
like the second he had no more use to them,
01:29:36
◼
►
they kicked him off.
01:29:36
◼
►
They kept him on the entire four years before that
01:29:40
◼
►
and didn't enforce a goddamn thing against him.
01:29:42
◼
►
When he broke all the rules,
01:29:44
◼
►
he was himself directly abusive and breaking laws constantly
01:29:48
◼
►
and they did nothing against him
01:29:49
◼
►
because he was too convenient to have on the platform
01:29:51
◼
►
and it would have been too politically bad
01:29:53
◼
►
for, in their mind, to kick him off.
01:29:55
◼
►
So they kept him on.
01:29:56
◼
►
stupid weasels kept him on the entire term and let him do all the damage he
01:30:00
◼
►
did and they only kicked him off like after January 6th when it was when he
01:30:05
◼
►
was politically tanked and when his term was effectively over that's when they
01:30:09
◼
►
kicked him off they rung every single bit of value out of having him on that
01:30:13
◼
►
platform and then they look like heroes kicking him off so forgive me if you
01:30:16
◼
►
think like you know if Elon flirted the idea of maybe letting him back on that
01:30:20
◼
►
doesn't make him any worse than the previous leadership that makes them both
01:30:23
◼
►
both turds to be clear, but it's no worse than them.
01:30:27
◼
►
- They did kick him off and he would be reversing that,
01:30:29
◼
►
so that's worse.
01:30:30
◼
►
Like obviously not kicking him off for so long is terrible
01:30:32
◼
►
and you could, you know, like they waited too long
01:30:34
◼
►
and they did a bad job or whatever,
01:30:36
◼
►
but reversing it is worse.
01:30:38
◼
►
Like, I mean, it's comparing two bad things to be clear.
01:30:40
◼
►
I don't disagree with anything you said about what they did,
01:30:44
◼
►
but Twitter is more than just him.
01:30:45
◼
►
Twitter is how they handled all the moderation and stuff
01:30:47
◼
►
and there were people in Twitter trying to move things
01:30:51
◼
►
in a good direction.
01:30:52
◼
►
And part of what enabled people to try to move things
01:30:56
◼
►
in a good direction on Twitter
01:30:57
◼
►
was the ineffectiveness of leadership.
01:31:00
◼
►
That they were able to try to do good within the org,
01:31:02
◼
►
despite the fact that the leadership may have disagreed
01:31:04
◼
►
with the good they were trying to do.
01:31:05
◼
►
You know what I mean?
01:31:07
◼
►
Like that they weren't paying attention,
01:31:08
◼
►
and while they weren't paying attention,
01:31:09
◼
►
the head of the Trust and Safety Department
01:31:11
◼
►
was able to try to do good things
01:31:12
◼
►
and hire some good people briefly, right?
01:31:15
◼
►
Again, you can't put this at the feet of the line,
01:31:17
◼
►
'cause what has he done so far?
01:31:18
◼
►
Not much, right?
01:31:19
◼
►
He's fired a bunch of people
01:31:20
◼
►
that people think he hasn't fired, so.
01:31:22
◼
►
- Yeah, and that's the thing.
01:31:23
◼
►
I think the reason why I am slightly optimistic about this
01:31:28
◼
►
is that, is not necessarily because I hugely believe in him.
01:31:32
◼
►
It's more that I just had so little faith
01:31:35
◼
►
in the previous leadership.
01:31:36
◼
►
And so I think he is, he's showing signs in both directions.
01:31:41
◼
►
He's showing signs that seem like things
01:31:43
◼
►
are gonna be terrible, and signs that show
01:31:46
◼
►
that maybe he's gonna make some refreshing changes.
01:31:48
◼
►
I don't know yet.
01:31:49
◼
►
don't know yet. He, you know, as John said a few minutes ago, like, Elon floats a lot
01:31:54
◼
►
of ideas in public and he's a total troll and he does a lot of it for attention or for
01:32:01
◼
►
laughs. Sometimes he's actually legitimately floating an idea he thinks actually might
01:32:04
◼
►
work. You know, he's not like good socially. He's not a serious person. No, he's not a
01:32:10
◼
►
serious person. He also, you know, he has obviously pretty poor social skills, you know,
01:32:18
◼
►
possibly for reasons that I can't diagnose
01:32:20
◼
►
'cause I'm not a professional,
01:32:21
◼
►
but there might be something there.
01:32:23
◼
►
I think he clearly,
01:32:25
◼
►
you can't take everything he says at face value,
01:32:29
◼
►
but you also can't rule him out
01:32:33
◼
►
as being totally incompetent
01:32:35
◼
►
because of all the crap he says,
01:32:39
◼
►
some of it he actually does and it turns out pretty good.
01:32:41
◼
►
Not all of it, but some of it.
01:32:43
◼
►
And so I think it's important when dealing with him,
01:32:46
◼
►
I think it's important to try to just not feed
01:32:51
◼
►
into his trolling with your attention
01:32:54
◼
►
and just focus on the results.
01:32:56
◼
►
Is he gonna actually do good stuff?
01:32:58
◼
►
And the answer to that is we don't know yet.
01:33:00
◼
►
It's too soon, but Twitter's previous leadership was awful
01:33:05
◼
►
and so I think the bar is low for him to be
01:33:08
◼
►
at least no worse than them.
01:33:10
◼
►
- Well, the thing that's attractive
01:33:14
◼
►
in any sort of situation where you want a strong man
01:33:16
◼
►
to come in and wipe the slate clean or whatever.
01:33:19
◼
►
It's like, you want decisive action, right?
01:33:20
◼
►
I'm so sick of these people doing nothing
01:33:22
◼
►
or saying they're gonna do something
01:33:25
◼
►
and never doing anything,
01:33:26
◼
►
or saying they're moving in the right direction
01:33:28
◼
►
but they move so slow, it doesn't even matter.
01:33:29
◼
►
I want decisive action.
01:33:31
◼
►
And at a certain point,
01:33:32
◼
►
dissatisfaction with the status quo becomes so pervasive
01:33:37
◼
►
that decisive action is the most important thing.
01:33:39
◼
►
Doesn't even matter what that action is,
01:33:41
◼
►
I just want decisive action.
01:33:42
◼
►
And very often, the biggest problem big corporations have
01:33:46
◼
►
is there's no one there who's empowered
01:33:48
◼
►
to do something decisive.
01:33:50
◼
►
Because once you have a company that's really, really big,
01:33:53
◼
►
especially if the people running it
01:33:54
◼
►
aren't the people who founded it and don't own it all,
01:33:57
◼
►
you just kinda wanna not screw things up
01:33:59
◼
►
and you have your options vest
01:34:01
◼
►
and get your golden parachute.
01:34:02
◼
►
And there's lots of motivations to not rock the boat.
01:34:05
◼
►
Because everyone, and so it becomes hard
01:34:08
◼
►
for big corporations to do anything.
01:34:09
◼
►
It becomes hard for leadership to do something.
01:34:11
◼
►
What Elon Musk has going for him
01:34:13
◼
►
and the things people find attractive is he doesn't care.
01:34:15
◼
►
He doesn't care because he's already rich.
01:34:17
◼
►
He doesn't care because he doesn't care, whatever it is.
01:34:19
◼
►
He has no problem with taking decisive action.
01:34:23
◼
►
And people find that attractive.
01:34:25
◼
►
But that is obviously the trap is,
01:34:27
◼
►
if it's decisive action doing something terrible,
01:34:29
◼
►
that's not good, right?
01:34:31
◼
►
And very often people will say,
01:34:34
◼
►
"Yeah, he did the terrible thing, but it was so decisive."
01:34:36
◼
►
And that is attractive to people.
01:34:38
◼
►
Like people can hold that in their head and say,
01:34:41
◼
►
"I don't agree with what he did,
01:34:43
◼
►
but at least he did it decisively
01:34:44
◼
►
and that makes me admire him, right?
01:34:46
◼
►
And the other thing is, well,
01:34:47
◼
►
you can't argue with the results.
01:34:48
◼
►
The results were great.
01:34:49
◼
►
Very often people are put in a situation where,
01:34:52
◼
►
you know, not being as incompetent as the last person
01:34:56
◼
►
is seen as a victory, for example, right?
01:34:58
◼
►
Or just sort of like, knowing,
01:35:02
◼
►
the question is, if you had picked a random person
01:35:06
◼
►
off the street and put them in that same situation
01:35:08
◼
►
and said, "Consequences are meaningless to you.
01:35:10
◼
►
No matter what happens, don't worry, you'll be fine.
01:35:13
◼
►
do whatever you think is right.
01:35:15
◼
►
Tons of people would be able to do what Elon Musk did.
01:35:18
◼
►
The thing that say, oh, I will attribute to this,
01:35:20
◼
►
he's a genius, is like, he was just uninhibited.
01:35:23
◼
►
Was he uninhibited because that's the wise thing to do?
01:35:26
◼
►
I don't know, but he was, he was uninhibited
01:35:28
◼
►
and he was able to do the thing that other people
01:35:31
◼
►
didn't have the guts to even try
01:35:33
◼
►
and it worked out a few times and it also helped
01:35:34
◼
►
that he was born rich and blah, blah, blah, right?
01:35:36
◼
►
So I don't, like saying like, oh, he was involved
01:35:40
◼
►
with things that were a success,
01:35:41
◼
►
therefore he knows what he's doing.
01:35:43
◼
►
I don't see that at all
01:35:44
◼
►
because this is a totally different realm
01:35:45
◼
►
and we kind of see how he uses Twitter
01:35:49
◼
►
and if that's what he likes about it,
01:35:51
◼
►
it's potentially, I potentially don't wanna be
01:35:54
◼
►
on the Twitter that Elon Musk thinks he would enjoy,
01:35:57
◼
►
but I'm also not ready to celebrate his decisiveness
01:36:00
◼
►
until I see what he is decisive about
01:36:02
◼
►
because I do want to see the decisions
01:36:04
◼
►
and who knows what they will be
01:36:06
◼
►
because it's not as if he's immune to feedback and learning,
01:36:10
◼
►
But he'll try all sorts of things,
01:36:12
◼
►
and he'll say all sorts of things,
01:36:13
◼
►
and hopefully he will try something,
01:36:15
◼
►
it'll be a disaster, he'll try something else.
01:36:16
◼
►
That's what, you know, then the clock is ticking on his debt
01:36:18
◼
►
and all his other financial things or whatever.
01:36:20
◼
►
But that's his MO, and that's what people
01:36:23
◼
►
who have nothing to lose do.
01:36:24
◼
►
People who have nothing to lose can be refreshing,
01:36:27
◼
►
but kind of like rewind.ai, sorry, rewind.ai.
01:36:30
◼
►
Having nothing to lose can also be terrifying, right?
01:36:33
◼
►
It really depends, and that's why, in general,
01:36:35
◼
►
it's not a great idea to have single, unaccountable people
01:36:39
◼
►
with nothing to lose in control of things that are important.
01:36:41
◼
►
Just putting that out there.
01:36:42
◼
►
- Yeah, and I totally agree with that.
01:36:44
◼
►
But I think that when people judge
01:36:49
◼
►
whatever he's gonna do with Twitter,
01:36:50
◼
►
and look, he might completely ruin it for all we know,
01:36:53
◼
►
but I think it's very important to just always
01:36:55
◼
►
contextualize like, well, how good was it before?
01:36:58
◼
►
In the case of things like moderation decisions,
01:37:01
◼
►
I don't necessarily care if Twitter is filled
01:37:04
◼
►
with a bunch of people whose stuff I don't wanna see
01:37:07
◼
►
if I'm not seeing it, right?
01:37:09
◼
►
And I don't really care if there's people
01:37:13
◼
►
who try to abuse me or people I care about
01:37:17
◼
►
if I and they don't see it.
01:37:20
◼
►
So I think it's important to recognize,
01:37:22
◼
►
like, you know, when you have a social network
01:37:25
◼
►
as big as Twitter, it's really hard to say,
01:37:29
◼
►
like, you know, people of type or belief, X, Y, Z,
01:37:32
◼
►
should not even be allowed to use this,
01:37:34
◼
►
because it is really blurring the line
01:37:36
◼
►
between public infrastructure and a private company.
01:37:39
◼
►
So that's a tough thing to manage.
01:37:41
◼
►
- I think the line is very blurry when one person owns it.
01:37:44
◼
►
And it's a private company.
01:37:45
◼
►
Literally it's a private company.
01:37:47
◼
►
Where's the blurred line?
01:37:48
◼
►
- Well, but again, I mean, look,
01:37:49
◼
►
I make the diagrams all the time about the App Store
01:37:52
◼
►
and about how the App Store has become such a required
01:37:56
◼
►
and massive part of so much of everyday life and commerce
01:38:00
◼
►
that it does kind of cross the line
01:38:03
◼
►
and start to need public style regulation, right?
01:38:06
◼
►
social network, large social networks,
01:38:08
◼
►
the handful that there are,
01:38:09
◼
►
are kind of like that in certain ways.
01:38:11
◼
►
Like it's tricky, you can't just say,
01:38:14
◼
►
oh, somebody who's ultra conservative,
01:38:16
◼
►
who's a huge (bleep)wad, you can't just say like,
01:38:19
◼
►
oh, they can't use this platform
01:38:21
◼
►
because of something stupid they said.
01:38:24
◼
►
But you can say, no one needs to see what they say.
01:38:27
◼
►
And so it's really, it's so hard.
01:38:29
◼
►
- I think you can say they can't use the platform.
01:38:30
◼
►
That's the whole point of having a private company.
01:38:32
◼
►
I totally disagree with that,
01:38:33
◼
►
Twitter is the public square.
01:38:34
◼
►
It's like 200 million tech nerds and journalists.
01:38:37
◼
►
It's a private company.
01:38:38
◼
►
The public square is the public square.
01:38:40
◼
►
The internet, you could say, is the public square.
01:38:42
◼
►
But anybody can start a social network.
01:38:43
◼
►
You can make your own acid on server.
01:38:46
◼
►
I will never be on board with that.
01:38:47
◼
►
It is ridiculous.
01:38:48
◼
►
- Yeah, but you know what?
01:38:49
◼
►
Look, everyone, look.
01:38:51
◼
►
This is not the first time that Twitter has made us all mad.
01:38:57
◼
►
And this is not the first time that lots of us have,
01:39:00
◼
►
with great principled stands, say we're leaving Twitter.
01:39:04
◼
►
Go join us somewhere here on this new other thing.
01:39:07
◼
►
Come join us here because Twitter has made us mad
01:39:09
◼
►
and all those other things have pretty much gone nowhere
01:39:12
◼
►
because that's not how social networks work.
01:39:15
◼
►
And so I think it's, to everyone out there
01:39:17
◼
►
who's like fleeing Twitter, look, do what you gotta do.
01:39:19
◼
►
If you feel strongly enough to do that, go for it.
01:39:23
◼
►
But don't assume that you will never come back.
01:39:27
◼
►
Don't assume that Twitter is guaranteed to be bad
01:39:30
◼
►
under this new ridiculous leader.
01:39:33
◼
►
Keep an open mind that maybe this will be fine,
01:39:36
◼
►
or at least no worse than it has been,
01:39:38
◼
►
and maybe leave the door open to come back,
01:39:41
◼
►
because you're not gonna get anyone else
01:39:43
◼
►
to go in mass to some new thing that's the same thing,
01:39:46
◼
►
but just not Twitter.
01:39:47
◼
►
That's not how anything works,
01:39:49
◼
►
and we've seen this time and time again.
01:39:51
◼
►
So I would advise everyone,
01:39:54
◼
►
before you go fleeing to your alternative
01:39:56
◼
►
and delete your Twitter account,
01:39:57
◼
►
maybe don't delete the account,
01:39:58
◼
►
maybe leave it open,
01:39:59
◼
►
and don't post saying I'm never coming back.
01:40:01
◼
►
Maybe just, you know, leave the door open
01:40:03
◼
►
and don't burn the bridge.
01:40:05
◼
►
- Also, to go back a little bit, is Elon that decisive?
01:40:09
◼
►
Like he seems to be waffling about what to do
01:40:12
◼
►
with Twitter Blue and whether or not--
01:40:14
◼
►
- He came in and threw his weight around immediately,
01:40:16
◼
►
making like, add this feature in a week and do this
01:40:18
◼
►
and firing a bunch of people and telling a bunch of people
01:40:20
◼
►
to do a thing within a week is probably stupid,
01:40:24
◼
►
but definitely decisive.
01:40:25
◼
►
He didn't have a year's worth of meetings with people
01:40:27
◼
►
before deciding what to do.
01:40:28
◼
►
He's just doing stuff.
01:40:28
◼
►
- Sure, sure. - Is he doing things
01:40:30
◼
►
with forethought or things that are wise to do or things that will be useful, we'll find
01:40:34
◼
►
out. But he did a bunch of stuff, that's for sure.
01:40:36
◼
►
Well, but then he's getting in fights with Stephen King, or not even getting in fights,
01:40:39
◼
►
he's asking Stephen King, "Well, what do you think I should do?"
01:40:41
◼
►
Oh, no, he does stupid stuff all the time. Like, that's all he does all day is stupid
01:40:44
◼
►
stuff, right? And the things he did to quote unquote, that was my whole point with the
01:40:47
◼
►
decisive league, is firing a bunch of people and trying to make sure they don't get severance,
01:40:51
◼
►
like, "Oh, it's decisive." But it's bad. You're doing, it's like, you're firing the
01:40:54
◼
►
wrong people and you're doing it in a dickish way and like, but because it's decisive, like,
01:40:59
◼
►
something is happening.
01:41:01
◼
►
So if your thing was like, "I hate stagnation of Twitter, I want to see something happen,"
01:41:05
◼
►
the finger on the monkey's paw curls and says, "Okay, something's happening now."
01:41:11
◼
►
And we'll see, we'll see how it turns out.
01:41:13
◼
►
But things are happening.
01:41:14
◼
►
I feel for the people who work there, because I'm sure lots of people who work there would
01:41:18
◼
►
like things to be better and they don't have control over this.
01:41:22
◼
►
But I'm sure this is not the last time we'll talk about this.
01:41:25
◼
►
And it is hard to do, because all the things he's doing so far are rumors of what he's
01:41:28
◼
►
doing internally that are leaking out and it's like that's not relevant to us
01:41:31
◼
►
as users of the thing we have to see what happens to the Twitter that we use
01:41:35
◼
►
and right now there's not much visible except for tons of things that he's
01:41:39
◼
►
talking about doing but hasn't actually done yet so we'll see.
01:41:42
◼
►
Yeah I don't know I just I've spent a unreasonable amount of time trying to
01:41:49
◼
►
understand random randos on Twitter randos in the chat room people that I am
01:41:56
◼
►
acquainted with friends, many of whom seem to worship the ground that Elon walks on.
01:42:01
◼
►
Because he's decisive and he's rich and might makes right and he's a strong man. Like this
01:42:05
◼
►
is not a new phenomenon. Thousands of years of human history have shown people love the strong
01:42:09
◼
►
man. People love the authoritarian. Fascism is popular for a reason. It is explicable. It is
01:42:15
◼
►
should not be shocking. We would hope that people would, you know, learn the lesson of history,
01:42:19
◼
►
but they don't. Uh, it is attractive. It will always be attractive probably until unless we
01:42:24
◼
►
we evolve away from it or wipe ourselves out.
01:42:26
◼
►
- Yeah, but he also, he has a lot of the same appeal
01:42:28
◼
►
that Trump did to a lot of people of like,
01:42:30
◼
►
you know, he is like, despite being like, you know,
01:42:34
◼
►
the richest person in the world most of the time,
01:42:36
◼
►
he is, he's seen as like the everyman to a lot of people
01:42:40
◼
►
who feel like society is against them.
01:42:42
◼
►
- Yeah, the everyman, he came from nothing,
01:42:44
◼
►
the son of a diamond emerald miner in South Africa.
01:42:47
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, just like Trump was self-made
01:42:49
◼
►
and a good businessman, right, all that BS.
01:42:51
◼
►
- Self-made multimillionaire.
01:42:54
◼
►
- Right, started off with nothing but a few hundred million
01:42:56
◼
►
from his father.
01:42:56
◼
►
- But like, yeah, but like, what appeals to people
01:43:00
◼
►
about him, there's so much overlap with Trump,
01:43:03
◼
►
and it's many of the same people, and so I don't agree
01:43:06
◼
►
with pretty much any of that, but I understand why
01:43:11
◼
►
a certain personality type would think he's basically God,
01:43:15
◼
►
and we have to deal with that, like that's the reality,
01:43:18
◼
►
and we might as well try to understand it and deal with it.
01:43:21
◼
►
The project of society is to try to make it so that those notions do not find root and
01:43:28
◼
►
we are doing a bad job of educating society.
01:43:33
◼
►
So far we're not burning witches, we got away from that, but barely.
01:43:38
◼
►
And in any second it threatens to come back.
01:43:42
◼
►
That's the thing, is that like, I've had lengthy conversations with some of these Elon super
01:43:47
◼
►
fans, it's so troubling because they seem to think a lot of them, "Oh, well just listen
01:43:54
◼
►
to this interview," or "Oh, did you just know this one tidbit?" or "Oh, what if I told you
01:44:00
◼
►
this?" Like suddenly, "Oh, you're right. Elon is God. I am a mere peon in the world that
01:44:07
◼
►
he lives and owns." And I don't get like, I don't understand, and I guess I should just
01:44:14
◼
►
let it go because it's probably not making for good programming. I just,
01:44:17
◼
►
I don't understand how people are so enamored with him. I just don't,
01:44:20
◼
►
I don't think that his cars are very good.
01:44:23
◼
►
SpaceX I don't know enough about to have an opinion.
01:44:26
◼
►
Starlink seems like it's clever, but not really going to amount to a whole lot.
01:44:30
◼
►
I mean, part of it,
01:44:32
◼
►
part of it was what you're explaining right now that you associate all those
01:44:35
◼
►
things with a single person, which is a ridiculous thing, right?
01:44:37
◼
►
But it's a thing that we all do is a shortcut. It's like Steve jobs is Apple.
01:44:41
◼
►
Elon Musk is Tesla, and obviously,
01:44:43
◼
►
those are companies filled with people doing things.
01:44:46
◼
►
And because he owns them or funded them
01:44:50
◼
►
or made important decisions that led them to their success,
01:44:54
◼
►
we attribute it all to that one person.
01:44:56
◼
►
And that type of thing is the same thing
01:44:57
◼
►
that leads you to, you know, to like, any,
01:45:00
◼
►
you assign accomplishments, accrual of wealth,
01:45:05
◼
►
power, good looks, height, like all these things,
01:45:08
◼
►
all these attributes that people can have,
01:45:10
◼
►
we connect them to virtue and say, you know, if you,
01:45:14
◼
►
if you have a limp that is less virtuous than the person
01:45:17
◼
►
who walks without a limp, right?
01:45:19
◼
►
If you get a disease that is like,
01:45:21
◼
►
and we connect everything with virtue, right?
01:45:23
◼
►
Your hair color, your skin color, your height,
01:45:26
◼
►
how much money you have, what family you belong to,
01:45:29
◼
►
things that are in your control,
01:45:30
◼
►
things that aren't in your control, we say,
01:45:31
◼
►
and therefore that is connected to virtue.
01:45:33
◼
►
What virtue?
01:45:34
◼
►
Brains, wisdom, strength, you know, leadership qualities,
01:45:40
◼
►
and that causes people, you know,
01:45:41
◼
►
why do they worship these people?
01:45:42
◼
►
Because all of those accomplishments are connected
01:45:44
◼
►
with merits that they believe in,
01:45:46
◼
►
and they say, of course I believe in him,
01:45:48
◼
►
he is a hero, he is amazing, he is brilliant,
01:45:50
◼
►
he is making the world a better place,
01:45:52
◼
►
because they, you know, these accomplishments,
01:45:56
◼
►
which can be accomplished by terrible people,
01:45:58
◼
►
they say, but no, because he did those things,
01:46:00
◼
►
because he has those things, because he is those things,
01:46:02
◼
►
therefore he has these other virtues, right?
01:46:05
◼
►
and that is, it's an unavoidable trap of human nature
01:46:10
◼
►
and a shortcut that we take.
01:46:11
◼
►
So anybody who acquires any of those things,
01:46:15
◼
►
people start to see all those other virtues in them, right?
01:46:17
◼
►
And of course, there's the people who see virtue
01:46:20
◼
►
in the punishing of the people they don't like,
01:46:21
◼
►
which gets into a bigger problem with fascism and racism
01:46:24
◼
►
and so on and so forth, but it's depressing,
01:46:26
◼
►
but it is well-trod territory,
01:46:29
◼
►
and it is difficult to combat,
01:46:31
◼
►
especially when other things are going poorly as well.
01:46:34
◼
►
- Yeah, it's just, I just can't wrap my mind around
01:46:36
◼
►
how people who I know that strike me
01:46:38
◼
►
as intelligent human beings look at this
01:46:40
◼
►
professional internet troll.
01:46:42
◼
►
He seems like just a dirtbag human,
01:46:44
◼
►
and yet these people like worship the ground he walks.
01:46:46
◼
►
I just don't get it, but we should move on.
01:46:48
◼
►
- I think it's important too to separate
01:46:51
◼
►
the personality details of this person from his work.
01:46:56
◼
►
And I think, you know, there was a good discussion
01:46:59
◼
►
on the talk show about this this week.
01:47:00
◼
►
It was actually a great episode with Federico Vaticci
01:47:02
◼
►
and John Greer, great episode, I recommend it.
01:47:04
◼
►
There was a great discussion there about kind of
01:47:05
◼
►
separating the artist from the work
01:47:07
◼
►
when somebody turns out to be a turd in real life
01:47:10
◼
►
and that comes to light, but you still enjoy their work
01:47:14
◼
►
or what they've made before you found out they were a turd.
01:47:16
◼
►
You can look at the various companies
01:47:18
◼
►
that he's been involved with so far,
01:47:21
◼
►
and I think largely they've been pretty good.
01:47:25
◼
►
You know, they're not all perfect,
01:47:27
◼
►
and some of his wacky ideas didn't get off the ground
01:47:30
◼
►
or were too ridiculous to even consider.
01:47:33
◼
►
But Teslas are pretty great cars
01:47:35
◼
►
and they are selling an absolute ton of them
01:47:38
◼
►
and they've done great things for car electrification.
01:47:42
◼
►
So that's a pretty huge thing.
01:47:44
◼
►
They did great things in batteries,
01:47:45
◼
►
they're working on doing great things in solar.
01:47:48
◼
►
SpaceX is itself a pretty great thing,
01:47:51
◼
►
doing itself pretty great things.
01:47:53
◼
►
Starlink is a bunch of asterisks
01:47:56
◼
►
with the space debris problem,
01:47:58
◼
►
but that's a pretty amazing idea
01:48:00
◼
►
as well that from the handful of people I know
01:48:02
◼
►
who have used it, it's pretty great.
01:48:05
◼
►
So I think owning Twitter, again,
01:48:08
◼
►
if we just don't even pay attention to the crap he says,
01:48:13
◼
►
just look at the work, and I know that's hard
01:48:15
◼
►
because he says a lot, and most of it's horrendously
01:48:19
◼
►
inflammatory or ridiculous or whatever,
01:48:22
◼
►
but just ignore everything he says,
01:48:25
◼
►
and just look at the work.
01:48:27
◼
►
Owning Twitter kind of fits in the sense that
01:48:30
◼
►
It's yet another massive challenge in yet another area
01:48:34
◼
►
that he has at least started out knowing nothing about.
01:48:37
◼
►
But do you think he knew how to make cars before Tesla?
01:48:39
◼
►
Do you think he knew how to make rockets before SpaceX?
01:48:41
◼
►
Do you think he knew how to launch satellites
01:48:42
◼
►
and run an ISP before Starlink?
01:48:45
◼
►
This is actually fitting a pattern that he does
01:48:47
◼
►
of tackling truly ridiculous, pretty large scale,
01:48:52
◼
►
pretty difficult problems that he thinks he can do.
01:48:55
◼
►
Regardless of why he thinks he can do them
01:48:58
◼
►
or the ridiculous ideas that he gets when he,
01:49:01
◼
►
that he spouts off on Twitter.
01:49:03
◼
►
Again, if you ignore all of that,
01:49:06
◼
►
because he's a massive troll and kind of a dick,
01:49:09
◼
►
so if you just ignore all of that
01:49:12
◼
►
and just look at the work,
01:49:14
◼
►
he does actually achieve some pretty remarkable things,
01:49:18
◼
►
and so that's why I think, hey, you know what?
01:49:21
◼
►
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
01:49:22
◼
►
I'll stick around on Twitter
01:49:23
◼
►
to see what the heck he does with the place,
01:49:24
◼
►
because again, it wasn't well run before,
01:49:27
◼
►
And so he's tackling a massive problem again.
01:49:32
◼
►
And in the past, when he has tackled massive problems,
01:49:35
◼
►
it's actually worked out pretty well eventually.
01:49:39
◼
►
Again, if you ignore everything he says.
01:49:41
◼
►
So I'm willing to apply the same strategy here.
01:49:44
◼
►
Turns out his car company makes pretty great cars
01:49:47
◼
►
that a lot of people like.
01:49:48
◼
►
His rocket company makes pretty good rockets
01:49:51
◼
►
that are doing important work.
01:49:52
◼
►
His satellite company is covering space
01:49:55
◼
►
with these disposable satellites that,
01:49:58
◼
►
all those issues aside,
01:49:59
◼
►
are providing a good service to people.
01:50:01
◼
►
So again, big problems, ignore all the crap
01:50:05
◼
►
that comes out of the guy's mouth,
01:50:06
◼
►
and I hope no one has to work for him in the process,
01:50:10
◼
►
'cause apparently that's not a super fun amount,
01:50:12
◼
►
or that's not super fun either,
01:50:13
◼
►
but when you look at the work,
01:50:16
◼
►
when you look at what comes out of this jerk,
01:50:20
◼
►
it actually is often pretty impressive.
01:50:23
◼
►
- Well, it's not a blank slate when it comes to Twitter,
01:50:24
◼
►
'cause we kind of, like, we may not know
01:50:26
◼
►
what he thinks he wants to do with Twitter,
01:50:28
◼
►
but we know how he uses Twitter.
01:50:29
◼
►
It's not like Twitter, he's not new to Twitter.
01:50:31
◼
►
He's been on Twitter for years.
01:50:32
◼
►
He is a very experienced Twitter user.
01:50:35
◼
►
And if you see the way he uses Twitter and you think,
01:50:38
◼
►
how would this person make Twitter more to their liking,
01:50:42
◼
►
it's not optimistic.
01:50:43
◼
►
That doesn't mean that's what he's gonna do.
01:50:44
◼
►
It doesn't mean he's gonna make Twitter more to his liking,
01:50:45
◼
►
but I have a feeling that he--
01:50:46
◼
►
- Look at how Jack used Twitter.
01:50:48
◼
►
- All right, well, I know.
01:50:50
◼
►
But like, I mean, I think it kind of fit.
01:50:52
◼
►
The way he used it was like,
01:50:53
◼
►
I kind of like it the way it is,
01:50:54
◼
►
and so it didn't change that much.
01:50:56
◼
►
But Elon wants to change Twitter.
01:50:57
◼
►
I mean, the reason he bought it practically is,
01:51:00
◼
►
it's like, this is a thing I use all the time,
01:51:02
◼
►
and I think it should be different than it is,
01:51:04
◼
►
so I'm just gonna buy it 'cause I'm super rich, right?
01:51:06
◼
►
So it's not as if we're like,
01:51:08
◼
►
I'm just gonna learn about social networks now.
01:51:09
◼
►
I mean, he is gonna learn about how it is to run them,
01:51:11
◼
►
but we're not starting from zero in terms of,
01:51:13
◼
►
I have no idea what Elon thinks about Twitter.
01:51:16
◼
►
We at least know what he thinks about it as a user.
01:51:18
◼
►
We don't know necessarily that he's going to tailor
01:51:20
◼
►
the service to his own personal tastes,
01:51:22
◼
►
but I have a hard time believing he'll do much of anything.
01:51:25
◼
►
So I'm going in predisposed to think
01:51:27
◼
►
that the changes that he is going to make
01:51:29
◼
►
are not going to appeal to me
01:51:31
◼
►
and people who are of similar mindset, but we'll see.
01:51:34
◼
►
Like I totally agree, it's like it's hard to talk about
01:51:37
◼
►
until he's actually done something.
01:51:38
◼
►
'Cause it's point like,
01:51:39
◼
►
we're not even talking about all the things that he said,
01:51:41
◼
►
'cause whatever, he says lots of things.
01:51:43
◼
►
He's changed what he said 17 times.
01:51:45
◼
►
Let's just wait to see what he actually does.
01:51:47
◼
►
But I am not particularly optimistic
01:51:49
◼
►
because pretty much every idea that he's floated
01:51:52
◼
►
with a few minor exceptions,
01:51:54
◼
►
does not seem like the way to go to me,
01:51:56
◼
►
but we'll see.
01:51:58
◼
►
- Well, but see, even that,
01:52:00
◼
►
in all the stupid crap he has floated,
01:52:03
◼
►
there's usually been a little kernel of something
01:52:06
◼
►
that was actually correct or good about it.
01:52:07
◼
►
- Well, if you say everything, eventually,
01:52:09
◼
►
one of the things is gonna be,
01:52:11
◼
►
if he covers all the bases.
01:52:12
◼
►
- But all the stupid crap he said
01:52:14
◼
►
that everyone jumps down a third about,
01:52:16
◼
►
usually it's like, okay, that's 80% a bad idea,
01:52:19
◼
►
but 20% of it, you were actually on track
01:52:21
◼
►
for something good, you know?
01:52:22
◼
►
And I think that's how he does lots of things.
01:52:24
◼
►
That like, if you look at the way he runs his companies
01:52:26
◼
►
and some of the ideas he tries,
01:52:28
◼
►
he does, he tries lots of crazy stuff,
01:52:30
◼
►
where he floats a lot of crazy ideas,
01:52:31
◼
►
or he says lots of crazy things.
01:52:32
◼
►
Some of them never happen, thank God.
01:52:34
◼
►
- Some of them do, like the Cybertruck.
01:52:35
◼
►
- Right, yeah, well, that doesn't happen yet.
01:52:37
◼
►
It's not out yet, you can't buy it yet.
01:52:39
◼
►
- Oh, it'll arrive just before Linux on its desktop
01:52:43
◼
►
really arrives, it'll be the same time.
01:52:45
◼
►
- Yeah, but anyway, like, you know,
01:52:46
◼
►
he has a bunch of ridiculous ideas.
01:52:48
◼
►
He tries, like, you know, look at some of the things
01:52:50
◼
►
he's talked about on Twitter so far.
01:52:52
◼
►
So, you know, some of the immediate controversies
01:52:54
◼
►
are that he wanted to lay off a bunch of people.
01:52:57
◼
►
Well, yeah, Twitter's way too big for what it is.
01:52:59
◼
►
How he does it--
01:53:00
◼
►
- Well, but slow down, but he laid off the wrong people.
01:53:03
◼
►
Right, it was the wrong people.
01:53:04
◼
►
- So this is the 80% bad part.
01:53:06
◼
►
But the 20% of it, like, he identified a real problem,
01:53:10
◼
►
so he might have solved it poorly.
01:53:12
◼
►
- If you had picked someone off the street
01:53:13
◼
►
and put them in charge of Twitter,
01:53:14
◼
►
they also would have laid off a lot of people,
01:53:16
◼
►
'cause everyone knows it's overstaffed.
01:53:17
◼
►
It's like, that's what attributing this is like,
01:53:19
◼
►
you know, the obvious thing that everybody knew
01:53:22
◼
►
but no one had the guts to,
01:53:22
◼
►
it's a condemnation of previous Twitter management,
01:53:25
◼
►
- Yeah, the previous dropping door of leadership
01:53:27
◼
►
never touched it, so you know, so that's one thing, okay?
01:53:30
◼
►
- Oh, they're the ones that hired all those people.
01:53:31
◼
►
- Right, so that's one thing.
01:53:32
◼
►
So there's also, you know, look at his dumb idea
01:53:35
◼
►
about tying verification to Twitter Blue.
01:53:37
◼
►
Well, some of that is terrible,
01:53:40
◼
►
but also, Twitter Blue is a premium service
01:53:43
◼
►
that no one I know bought.
01:53:45
◼
►
I know so many people who are Twitter power users.
01:53:48
◼
►
I don't know a single person who buys Twitter Blue.
01:53:51
◼
►
And I have no use for it,
01:53:52
◼
►
and I've been using this platform for like a decade, heavily.
01:53:55
◼
►
And yet, so obviously, they launched a premium product
01:53:58
◼
►
that most of their premium users don't want.
01:54:01
◼
►
Secondarily, you know who could pay for verification,
01:54:04
◼
►
who would love to pay for verification?
01:54:07
◼
►
Businesses, every single business.
01:54:09
◼
►
I have a verification mark on Overcast,
01:54:12
◼
►
we have one on ATP, and in part,
01:54:14
◼
►
the reason why I sought those
01:54:16
◼
►
was because it makes us look more legitimate.
01:54:18
◼
►
And if I could have those on other platforms as easily,
01:54:20
◼
►
I would get them there too.
01:54:21
◼
►
Because again, and businesses are,
01:54:23
◼
►
yeah, you don't wanna make every journalist in the world
01:54:27
◼
►
have to pay for something they might be able to afford
01:54:29
◼
►
or whatever, but businesses sure can.
01:54:31
◼
►
So again, there's a kernel of like, okay,
01:54:34
◼
►
you have businesses capturing all this value on Twitter,
01:54:40
◼
►
why not let businesses pay not $20,
01:54:43
◼
►
make businesses pay $100 a month
01:54:44
◼
►
for a verification check mark?
01:54:46
◼
►
Like, these aren't terrible ideas completely.
01:54:50
◼
►
The details that he has floated so far,
01:54:52
◼
►
or that have been rumored that he said,
01:54:54
◼
►
some of the details are awful,
01:54:55
◼
►
many of the details are awful,
01:54:56
◼
►
but at the heart, like, you know,
01:54:58
◼
►
Twitter is a platform that most people have identified
01:55:02
◼
►
as totally failing as an advertising delivery service.
01:55:05
◼
►
And everything people want is away from ads.
01:55:09
◼
►
So what if they launched a premium thing
01:55:11
◼
►
that people wanted to pay six or eight
01:55:12
◼
►
or 10 or 20 bucks a month for?
01:55:14
◼
►
That's not that bad.
01:55:15
◼
►
Well, but did you do the math on that, though?
01:55:17
◼
►
You do the back of the envelope math, it's not great.
01:55:20
◼
►
That's what you get with just saying things and saying,
01:55:23
◼
►
oh, well, you know, this way.
01:55:24
◼
►
Just do the back of the envelope math.
01:55:25
◼
►
Like, how much are they money they make from ads now?
01:55:27
◼
►
And everyone agrees they're not doing a good job with ads.
01:55:29
◼
►
But how much do they make from ads now?
01:55:30
◼
►
How much would they make if every single person
01:55:32
◼
►
who's on Twitter pays what he's saying a month?
01:55:34
◼
►
And you know 100% of people aren't gonna pay for it.
01:55:36
◼
►
And it's like, it's way less, right?
01:55:38
◼
►
So what's the plan?
01:55:39
◼
►
And obviously, that's why it's so hard to engage with this.
01:55:41
◼
►
Like, who cares?
01:55:42
◼
►
He hasn't actually done anything yet, we'll see.
01:55:43
◼
►
and what if it's only additive and blah, blah, blah.
01:55:45
◼
►
Like there's all these theories about how it could go
01:55:47
◼
►
or whatever, but back of the envelope,
01:55:49
◼
►
like being able to pay for verification
01:55:51
◼
►
and those type of things, you know,
01:55:53
◼
►
like as most of the articles that talk about this say,
01:55:56
◼
►
I think there was a, this isn't the new Libetel one,
01:55:58
◼
►
that the product of Twitter is moderation, right?
01:56:00
◼
►
That that's what they're selling.
01:56:01
◼
►
- That was a great article, yeah,
01:56:02
◼
►
The Verge, Welcome to Hell.
01:56:04
◼
►
- Right, because that's true of anything
01:56:06
◼
►
that's advertising driven or whatever.
01:56:08
◼
►
Like you need the people to be there
01:56:09
◼
►
so you can advertise to them.
01:56:10
◼
►
So you have to make it a hospitable place.
01:56:12
◼
►
Twitter has arguably not been great about getting people
01:56:15
◼
►
to be there, but it's got a lot of the quote unquote
01:56:17
◼
►
valuable people there who are valuable to advertise to
01:56:20
◼
►
or whatever.
01:56:21
◼
►
Like that all makes sense, it just hasn't been
01:56:23
◼
►
a leverage very well.
01:56:25
◼
►
And verification is part of the moderation product
01:56:29
◼
►
because you want to make it so that there's a way
01:56:31
◼
►
for people who use your service to determine
01:56:33
◼
►
if this is really McDonald's or not McDonald's,
01:56:34
◼
►
you know what I mean?
01:56:35
◼
►
Like that's part of the product that they're selling, right?
01:56:39
◼
►
You could sell other things on top of that,
01:56:40
◼
►
like let the people who are willing or able to pay
01:56:42
◼
►
get better features or whatever,
01:56:44
◼
►
but that is all in service of making it a place
01:56:47
◼
►
where it is safe and suitable to advertise.
01:56:52
◼
►
Because the money you're gonna get
01:56:53
◼
►
from the people who pay for any of these services
01:56:56
◼
►
is nothing compared to,
01:56:57
◼
►
like literally every single person on Twitter pays this,
01:57:00
◼
►
it's not going to match your advertising income
01:57:02
◼
►
unless you charge every single person $3,000 a month.
01:57:05
◼
►
When you do them, and again,
01:57:06
◼
►
I use the everybody because that's ridiculous,
01:57:08
◼
►
what percentage of people,
01:57:10
◼
►
no matter how good you make this product,
01:57:11
◼
►
what percentage of the people even can pay for it,
01:57:13
◼
►
let alone will pay for it,
01:57:15
◼
►
then add up all their money
01:57:16
◼
►
and weigh it against your potential advertising
01:57:18
◼
►
to these people who are valuable to advertise to
01:57:20
◼
►
and advertising keeps winning.
01:57:22
◼
►
And so in the end,
01:57:23
◼
►
if you look at this from a business person's perspective,
01:57:26
◼
►
if you want to make more money than they're making now,
01:57:28
◼
►
you can cut costs,
01:57:29
◼
►
which is what everybody does when they buy a company,
01:57:31
◼
►
lay off a bunch of people, lower your costs,
01:57:32
◼
►
and you can increase revenue.
01:57:34
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And where is that really gonna come from?
01:57:35
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You can get some revenue from your users,
01:57:37
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but there's not a lot of them.
01:57:39
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Twitter is not as big as Facebook, you know?
01:57:42
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So they can't get a fraction of a cent from everybody
01:57:45
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and be bazillionaires.
01:57:46
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They have to get larger money from advertisers
01:57:50
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to give access to their relatively small,
01:57:52
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mere hundreds of millions or whatever
01:57:54
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Twitter's user base is,
01:57:55
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of people who are valuable to advertise to.
01:57:58
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And then there's the value of the conversation
01:58:00
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that happens on Twitter.
01:58:01
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Again, makes it a place where people wanna be
01:58:04
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so you can advertise to them.
01:58:06
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Are there other ways to make money from Twitter?
01:58:08
◼
►
fine, but any way you come up with to make money from Twitter, you have to say,
01:58:10
◼
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okay, is this in lieu of advertising? Because if it is,
01:58:12
◼
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it has to make at least as much money. But it's not in lieu of advertising.
01:58:15
◼
►
Does this make it an environment where advertisers still want to advertise?
01:58:19
◼
►
And that's where I feel like he gets into trouble with a lot of his schemes that
01:58:22
◼
►
he's throwing out there.
01:58:23
◼
►
Not that they're bad ideas because I've always been a proponent of have people
01:58:26
◼
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pay for a service so they can support it with money.
01:58:28
◼
►
But Twitter is so long past the point. Like it's,
01:58:31
◼
►
it's too big to be supported by its users because you know,
01:58:35
◼
►
not enough people will pay to run Twitter.
01:58:38
◼
►
You can't run Twitter on, you know,
01:58:39
◼
►
you can't make it like app.net where everyone who's on it
01:58:41
◼
►
pays something or whatever.
01:58:43
◼
►
Twitter is too big for that.
01:58:44
◼
►
But it's also too small to say,
01:58:47
◼
►
"It's a free for all and I don't care
01:58:49
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►
"because we have literally five billion people
01:58:51
◼
►
"so you will advertise with us."
01:58:53
◼
►
It's in that uncomfortable place in between
01:58:55
◼
►
where it's just barely too big to be supported by its users
01:58:58
◼
►
so you have to advertise to it,
01:59:00
◼
►
but it's filled with people who want to make it a place
01:59:02
◼
►
where advertisers don't wanna advertise.
01:59:05
◼
►
Well, I'm tired of talking about this.
01:59:07
◼
►
- You do wonder if Elon Musk watches Black Mirror
01:59:09
◼
►
and again, like the joke in the chat room,
01:59:11
◼
►
sees every episode and says, "That would be awesome."
01:59:13
◼
►
- Don't give him any more ideas.
01:59:15
◼
►
- Seriously, Jesus, Jesus, John.
01:59:17
◼
►
- Thanks to our sponsors this week,
01:59:20
◼
►
Squarespace, Trade Coffee, and Linode.
01:59:23
◼
►
And thanks to our members who support us directly.
01:59:25
◼
►
You can join at atv.fm/join.
01:59:28
◼
►
We will talk to you next week.
01:59:30
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:59:33
◼
►
Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin
01:59:37
◼
►
'Cause it was accidental (accidental)
01:59:40
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental (accidental)
01:59:43
◼
►
John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him
01:59:48
◼
►
'Cause it was accidental (accidental)
01:59:51
◼
►
Oh, it was accidental (accidental)
01:59:54
◼
►
And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm
01:59:59
◼
►
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them @C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S
02:00:08
◼
►
So that's Kasey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M
02:00:12
◼
►
Auntie Marco Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A
02:00:19
◼
►
It's accidental (it's accidental)
02:00:23
◼
►
They didn't mean to accidental (accidental)
02:00:28
◼
►
♪ The tech podcast so long ♪
02:00:31
◼
►
- Can we have something light in the mood please
02:00:34
◼
►
and thank you?
02:00:35
◼
►
- I don't know, maybe we just have to come to it.
02:00:37
◼
►
I did enjoy the part where he thought Stephen King
02:00:39
◼
►
was balking it paying $20 so he said, "How about eight?"
02:00:43
◼
►
- He's so dumb, he's so dumb.
02:00:45
◼
►
- He's not dumb, that was trolling.
02:00:47
◼
►
That was like, come on.
02:00:50
◼
►
- He is a troll.
02:00:51
◼
►
- Oh, he's unquestionably a troll, unquestionably.
02:00:54
◼
►
- I mean, part of that, part of saying that he's always,
02:00:58
◼
►
that he's always a troll is attributing to him
02:01:00
◼
►
an intelligence, wisdom, and self-awareness
02:01:03
◼
►
that is not an evidence, because it seems like--
02:01:05
◼
►
- Right, thank you! - You know what I mean?
02:01:07
◼
►
It's easier to say that because, well, obviously,
02:01:09
◼
►
he must be smart 'cause he's rich,
02:01:10
◼
►
and so when he says something stupid,
02:01:12
◼
►
it must be because he's trolling to get a rise out of you,
02:01:14
◼
►
but no, sometimes he's just stupid.
02:01:15
◼
►
- Well, I mean, and the things,
02:01:17
◼
►
like this strikes me as trolling,
02:01:19
◼
►
but I'm not convinced it is.
02:01:21
◼
►
- Yeah, for sure, he is definitely a troll.
02:01:23
◼
►
Like, I'm not arguing with him.
02:01:24
◼
►
- I don't know, he's 1,000% a troll.
02:01:26
◼
►
But sometimes it's hard to tell when he's trolling
02:01:29
◼
►
when he's just dumb because there's enough
02:01:30
◼
►
of both to go around.
02:01:31
◼
►
- Well, and this is such an absurd tweet.
02:01:34
◼
►
He tweeted a couple hours ago,
02:01:35
◼
►
advertisers should support this poll.
02:01:37
◼
►
Option one, freedom of speech.
02:01:39
◼
►
Option two, political quote, correctness quote.
02:01:41
◼
►
- That's trolling.
02:01:42
◼
►
- I know it is, but it's so,
02:01:45
◼
►
like why do we worship this jacket?
02:01:48
◼
►
I don't get it.
02:01:49
◼
►
- I don't think a lot of people worship.
02:01:51
◼
►
I don't think it's an epitheco-version.
02:01:53
◼
►
It's an epidemic of positive regard,
02:01:55
◼
►
which is how we got Trump as president. That's what it is.
02:01:58
◼
►
Can we please talk about anything else for the love of Christ, please?
02:02:01
◼
►
I don't care what, anything, anything else. Why did I bring this?
02:02:05
◼
►
I brought this on myself. I'm an idiot. I shouldn't have brought it up.
02:02:08
◼
►
I mean, we avoided it for as long as we could. He's like, well, he's,
02:02:11
◼
►
he was going to buy it, but then he's trying to get out of it.
02:02:14
◼
►
It's been going on for months. You know, it went on for, and eventually it,
02:02:17
◼
►
you know, it ended the way again,
02:02:20
◼
►
things that fly in the face of the idea of being him,
02:02:23
◼
►
him being a mastermind that he, it seems like he wanted to buy Twitter and just sort of
02:02:27
◼
►
a fit of peak of like, "I should control this because I'm on it all the time and it sucks
02:02:31
◼
►
and I can make it better and I should buy it for a ridiculous price." And then he kind
02:02:34
◼
►
of said, "Well, actually, maybe I don't want to do that. It seems like a dumb idea. Can
02:02:37
◼
►
I get out of it? Oh, no, I can't. Oh, I guess I'm buying it." Like, that is not the sign
02:02:40
◼
►
of a stable genius. Like, it's not the sign of somebody who has got their stuff together
02:02:47
◼
►
and is, you know, it's sure is decisive action. He took a decisive action to do a stupid thing
02:02:52
◼
►
and then he decisively said,
02:02:53
◼
►
"I'm getting the hell out of this,"
02:02:54
◼
►
and he decisively couldn't do that.
02:02:57
◼
►
It does not reflect well on him.
02:02:59
◼
►
If someone who was not a millionaire did that,
02:03:01
◼
►
you would pity them, right?
02:03:03
◼
►
You're not a billionaire, sorry, Elon.
02:03:06
◼
►
Not the America's richest man.
02:03:08
◼
►
You would feel pity for them
02:03:09
◼
►
and how little hold they had over their life
02:03:12
◼
►
and what poor decisions they make.
02:03:13
◼
►
But when someone who's fabulously wealthy does it,
02:03:15
◼
►
people will bend over backwards
02:03:16
◼
►
to attribute genius to those moves.
02:03:18
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►
Those moves are not genius, not at all.
02:03:20
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►
Just ask the bankers who lent him the money.