501: Torsional Rigidity Check


00:00:00   I participated, and this is actually going to tie into our other part of the pre-show, but I participated in

00:00:04   the podcastathon, the Relay FM podcastathon to raise money for St. Jude.

00:00:10   We're going to talk more about that in a moment. And as part of that, myself and a handful of other Relay hosts

00:00:15   played Relay FM feuding families. And we played, you know, a game that might be like a television show

00:00:22   you may have seen. We had various questions, some of which I was prepared for, some of which I was not.

00:00:26   The final question in the feuding families, however, was something that was quite funny and I have to ask

00:00:32   Marco, let me start with you. Did you happen to have the chance to see this segment of these?

00:00:36   What was it? Six hour eight hour eight hour podcast? A thon sadly, I did not. Okay. Well you missed you missed a true gem

00:00:43   I mean the whole thing was great. You should watch all of it. But this in particular was excellent

00:00:46   the final question just to finish this up is

00:00:49   Name something that is important or that I would think there's a name something that John Syracuse

00:00:55   cares about. And imagine me just losing it when that question was asked, because of the

00:01:01   three of us I was the only one participating in the feuding families, I was rolling listening

00:01:07   to that question. The answers, if you would like to be spoiled, and we will put a timestamp

00:01:12   link in the show notes.

00:01:13   I think you might have to explain the premise of Family Feud briefly.

00:01:17   Well, I don't know what Family Feud is about, because this definitely was not it.

00:01:20   It was definitely distinct, yes.

00:01:22   distinct, but the idea with Feuding Families is the relay listeners, and

00:01:28   anyone really could participate, but the relay listeners filled out a survey

00:01:31   basically and filled out freeform answers to several different questions.

00:01:34   Then Jason Snell, our game master, if you will, dungeon master since I lost

00:01:41   actually, I was very sad, but anyway, Jason as our game master would assemble these,

00:01:46   I think perhaps some other people helped him, but would assemble these answers and

00:01:49   pick the top several. And the amount of people that wrote in that answer would

00:01:54   be the amount of points you earn for guessing that answer. And there's two

00:01:58   teams and each team would make a guess. And whichever team had the

00:02:03   higher guess, so this is, well this is not exactly how it works, but basically

00:02:06   whichever team makes the higher guess gets to try to name all the different

00:02:10   options. And if they succeed they get all the points. If they don't name all the

00:02:15   If they have three incorrect answers,

00:02:17   then the other team gets a chance,

00:02:19   and if they name any of the remaining options,

00:02:21   they steal all the points.

00:02:22   And so we had, in this case, one, two, three, four, five,

00:02:25   six available answers to what does John Siracusa care about?

00:02:30   And I was curious, John, what your thoughts were.

00:02:33   I will go through the list now.

00:02:35   - Well, actually, did Margot already spoil yourself

00:02:37   by looking at the show notes?

00:02:39   - No, I did not.

00:02:40   - All right, well, so Margot should play the game.

00:02:42   - This is perfect.

00:02:43   I love this. - Okay, okay.

00:02:44   Thank you, John.

00:02:45   All right, what does John Sirkiszko care about?

00:02:48   - I remember the trick about this game

00:02:49   and all and Family Feud that was on TV or whatever is,

00:02:52   it doesn't matter what the actual answer is,

00:02:54   it only matters what people who filled out the survey said.

00:02:57   So if the survey was like name a fruit,

00:02:59   like most people would like pick an apple or something

00:03:01   as their number one, right?

00:03:02   It's the first thing that comes to mind.

00:03:03   So you have to guess what most people said

00:03:07   in the answer to this question,

00:03:08   not what I actually care about.

00:03:10   - Right.

00:03:11   So I'm gonna say,

00:03:13   I mean, this might be too broad, but Italian food.

00:03:16   - Bzzz, that's one X.

00:03:17   Not even on the list. - Not on the list.

00:03:20   - Are you able to tell me like,

00:03:21   is a particular one like tomato sauce?

00:03:22   Like, is that just too broad or?

00:03:25   - Like, the game Family Feud and Jason as host

00:03:28   are both very generous in terms of letting you get close.

00:03:32   There is nothing even close to that on here,

00:03:35   so no, Italian food is not on the list.

00:03:37   We should do the thing that they do in the show

00:03:39   that this is legally distinct from and that Jason does,

00:03:41   which is you do survey says, show me Italian food.

00:03:45   And then the big red X comes cause you didn't get it.

00:03:47   - All right.

00:03:48   - I can't believe you're doing this badly

00:03:50   cause none, you don't have any of the six.

00:03:52   You just have to pick one of the top six.

00:03:54   In less than respect you came up with Italian food.

00:03:57   - I mean, that's a reasonable guess.

00:03:59   - Cause these are people filling out a survey.

00:04:01   Many of them might not even know who I am,

00:04:02   but the ones that do probably know who I am

00:04:04   from listening to podcasts.

00:04:06   - Televisions.

00:04:07   - Number one answer. - Number one choice, boom.

00:04:09   See, now you're getting it.

00:04:11   - Now we're getting somewhere, all right.

00:04:12   - 30 people said.

00:04:13   - All right, so I'm just gonna keep going

00:04:17   until I lose or guess all six?

00:04:19   - Yeah, until you get three Xs.

00:04:20   - Right, yeah, okay, so yeah.

00:04:22   All right, I'm gonna go with Apple.

00:04:25   - Not on the list, I'm not gonna give you that one.

00:04:27   Jason was very generous with his choice in the show,

00:04:29   but no, Apple is not on the list.

00:04:31   Good guess, though, but no.

00:04:32   - So one of the things I thought of was movies,

00:04:34   but I wonder if that's included in,

00:04:36   well, television's a hardware thing.

00:04:37   All right, I'm gonna say movies.

00:04:38   - Nope.

00:04:39   Is that two?

00:04:40   - Is that your third axis? - No, that's two.

00:04:42   All right, follow up.

00:04:44   - Nope. - No.

00:04:46   - Wow. - Three axes.

00:04:47   - Hopefully you're doing so badly at this game,

00:04:48   I gotta remember not to be on Feuding Families

00:04:50   with Marco and my team.

00:04:51   (laughing)

00:04:52   You are on a show with me.

00:04:54   The only place people would know me from

00:04:56   is listening to me on podcasts.

00:04:58   All right, forget about the game, Marco.

00:05:00   Name a bunch of stuff that I'm known for on the show.

00:05:02   Just rattle them off.

00:05:03   - I mean, you make really good arguments.

00:05:05   That's-- - No!

00:05:06   (laughing)

00:05:07   - I'm not mad at you, this is bad.

00:05:08   - I mean, you're all about the Mac Pro.

00:05:10   - All right, all right chatroom.

00:05:11   - All right, I'll give you half credit for the Mac Pro

00:05:14   because the-- - Yeah, so something having

00:05:16   to do with the Mac is a good choice.

00:05:17   - Yeah, I mean Pro Max I would say, yeah Pro Max.

00:05:19   I mean you're all about Perl.

00:05:23   - That's a good guess, that would,

00:05:24   they just missed the list but that's a good one.

00:05:26   - Yeah, there's of course file systems.

00:05:29   - That's on the list, that's number six.

00:05:31   - All right, all right.

00:05:32   - You're the one who rings the bell,

00:05:33   you didn't guess file systems?

00:05:35   All right, go on. - No.

00:05:35   (bell dings)

00:05:36   - Cheese graters?

00:05:38   - Yes, that's on the list, number three.

00:05:38   - Number three. - See how much better

00:05:40   you're doing now that you're not in whatever mental state

00:05:43   you're in for the game mode?

00:05:45   - Let's see, other things, I mean,

00:05:47   if it isn't just limited to this show,

00:05:49   you definitely care a lot about secret British people.

00:05:53   - That's true, that's only a recent development.

00:05:54   - People wouldn't have known that.

00:05:56   - I mean, you're doing okay here, but let's just,

00:05:59   'cause you already lost, let's tell you the other ones.

00:06:01   Toasters, number two. - Oh yeah!

00:06:03   - Come on, man. - I mean, no,

00:06:04   that's not recent, but you remember you're serving

00:06:06   of a bunch of people who may have heard,

00:06:08   listened to a podcast with me on it

00:06:10   like once a long time ago, toasters.

00:06:12   That's number two, cheeseburgers is number three.

00:06:14   Number four, you probably wouldn't get.

00:06:16   - Game controllers. - Excuse me, number four,

00:06:17   I believe that was my pick if memory serves,

00:06:19   thank you very much. - Yeah, you did get it.

00:06:20   I'm gonna have you return in a second.

00:06:22   Number four is fan noise.

00:06:24   I mean, true, yes, but. - I mean, yeah, that's up,

00:06:26   I think I guess things that are way more prominent than that.

00:06:29   - Yeah, but that's the secret of the lesson.

00:06:30   - That's the secret of the game.

00:06:31   - Also, here's what you should have done, Casey,

00:06:33   because as you noted in earlier rounds,

00:06:35   Sometimes the rounds were sort of focused on particular people's expertise.

00:06:38   Like they had a question about Microsoft stores.

00:06:40   One team had one, maybe two Microsoft employees, right?

00:06:44   So that's unfair.

00:06:45   There was a Pokemon question.

00:06:46   Obviously there were people with varying degrees of Pokemon expertise,

00:06:49   which may have helped to hurt them.

00:06:50   But in the question about me, you are the expert, Casey.

00:06:54   You're right there.

00:06:54   You're on a podcast with me all the time.

00:06:55   You could have guessed all of these.

00:06:57   It's just a question of narrowing it down.

00:06:59   It's like you were in the position of the Pokemon people.

00:07:00   They know all the Pokemon.

00:07:01   It's just a question of narrowing it down.

00:07:04   You didn't listen to Jason earlier when he said,

00:07:07   "Hey, when your team has their turn,

00:07:09   "you can, if you want, rattle off a bunch of things

00:07:12   "that you're thinking of."

00:07:13   Knowing full well that you're giving hints

00:07:15   to the other team, because if you named three things,

00:07:18   and your team loses, the other team can just name

00:07:21   those things that you listed, right?

00:07:23   But you knew your team didn't know me that well.

00:07:25   I think one of the people didn't even know me at all.

00:07:28   So you should have given them other choices to choose from,

00:07:31   especially when you had zero strikes.

00:07:32   You just said, "Okay, team, I know you guys don't know

00:07:34   as well as I do.

00:07:35   So what I'm thinking of is cheese graters,

00:07:38   toasters, and file systems.

00:07:40   And I know those sound weird to you,

00:07:42   but those are three valid choices.

00:07:44   - It seems to be lunge for the bell again.

00:07:46   - Right, and so then you could have sent fan noise,

00:07:49   and then that was correct, and then the rest of your team

00:07:51   would have had three easy choices instead of coming up

00:07:54   with the wrong answers that they came up with

00:07:55   because they have no idea who I am.

00:07:57   - So I'm presently, I wish I had saved this.

00:07:59   I thought I had scanned it, but I didn't.

00:08:00   I'm rifling through my garbage.

00:08:01   Oh, here it is.

00:08:02   what I actually wrote down during the recording,

00:08:06   'cause I was taking notes for myself.

00:08:07   All right, here we go.

00:08:08   What do I have here?

00:08:10   I have, I can't even read my own writing.

00:08:12   Noise/fans, file systems, cars, movies,

00:08:16   sprite, cheese graters,

00:08:17   this was in no particular order, by the way,

00:08:20   redundancy, I think, with regard to backups.

00:08:22   - Yeah, backup's someone you guessed,

00:08:23   and I can't believe that wasn't on the list.

00:08:24   As Jason noted, Jason said,

00:08:26   "I think Jon cares more about that

00:08:27   "than is represented in this survey."

00:08:29   (laughing)

00:08:30   Game controllers, which I think Marco had mentioned.

00:08:33   - Yeah, but too late.

00:08:34   - What does this say?

00:08:35   Oh, Simpsons and pop culture references.

00:08:38   That was my list of items that I had.

00:08:40   - It tails off pretty quickly,

00:08:41   but this is a reasonable top six.

00:08:43   - So you begrudgingly approve

00:08:46   or you just straight up approve?

00:08:47   - Yeah, so if we had to do it for Marco, ready?

00:08:50   I'm gonna do Marco here, let's see.

00:08:52   What would I say that the survey people would say?

00:08:55   I would say...

00:08:57   - See, how am I supposed to judge this?

00:08:59   'Cause we don't have those sort of results.

00:09:01   - I know, I know, but you just gotta name things

00:09:03   that people would know about you.

00:09:06   - Things I care about.

00:09:07   - Yeah, right, I mean--

00:09:08   - Fish? - Yep, that's way up there.

00:09:11   I mean, I put it in the headers of our website,

00:09:13   for God's sake.

00:09:14   (laughing)

00:09:14   - I love that the three answers in the chat room

00:09:18   consistently between the three of them, spending money.

00:09:21   (laughing)

00:09:22   - There probably might have been something

00:09:24   about that in there, but Fish, I would throw in there.

00:09:28   Some people might say PHP just because it's one of the things you're known for.

00:09:33   I wouldn't say I care that much about PHP.

00:09:35   I know, I know.

00:09:36   But it's like what do people associate with you?

00:09:39   Fancy watches, maybe.

00:09:40   Yeah, I'm falling out of that.

00:09:43   Yeah.

00:09:44   What would people say?

00:09:45   What if they have to like, what's on their index card for Marko?

00:09:47   New York?

00:09:48   Spending money.

00:09:49   No.

00:09:50   Headphones.

00:09:51   Oh yeah, that's a good one.

00:09:52   Pittsburgh is a deep cut.

00:09:54   I don't think that would be on the top list.

00:09:56   - I mean, I loved living there,

00:09:57   but that was a long time ago.

00:09:58   - And there would be, the difficult one is finding

00:10:00   like the Apple related stuff.

00:10:02   Would people say iPhone, would they say the Mac?

00:10:04   You know, like-- - Right, that's why

00:10:05   I kinda went with Apple, you know.

00:10:07   - Right, you know, iOS, right, stuff like that.

00:10:09   Podcasting, podcasts, something like that.

00:10:12   - Somebody said cars, and I reject that

00:10:15   because Marco drives an appliance now.

00:10:17   He doesn't drive a car anymore.

00:10:18   - I will say, I had quite a lot of time

00:10:20   in that appliance today, and I really quite enjoyed it.

00:10:25   - Well I guess Casey's talking about a Tesla, isn't he?

00:10:27   - Yes. - Sorry, I missed it.

00:10:29   I was in the Land Rover all day.

00:10:30   Which now, by the way, wears a watch,

00:10:31   but that's a separate story.

00:10:32   - The Land Rover wears a watch?

00:10:34   - That's correct.

00:10:35   - I do wanna unpack this at some point in the future,

00:10:37   so we'll put that in the show. - We'll get to it

00:10:38   in the watch discussion later.

00:10:40   - Oh, perfect, okay.

00:10:41   - All right then, I guess Marco, you do Casey now.

00:10:44   - Oh no.

00:10:44   I thought I was gonna get away with this.

00:10:46   - How does somebody doing this for me

00:10:48   not mention "Fire Island" and "Dogs"?

00:10:51   - I mean, "Dogs" is so, like, who doesn't love it?

00:10:53   Oh, I like babies.

00:10:54   - I mean, okay, sure.

00:10:56   Do you like dogs more than I like dogs?

00:10:59   We both have one dog.

00:11:01   And I've owned more dogs than you.

00:11:03   - I've seen, well, let's see.

00:11:04   You like babies more than I do, for sure.

00:11:09   - There's not a human that likes babies more

00:11:11   than John Stavrosa.

00:11:11   - I know.

00:11:12   - I'm not super into babies.

00:11:13   - I think I like dogs more, but it's a close call,

00:11:16   'cause you also love dogs, so yeah.

00:11:17   - I don't think so.

00:11:18   Everybody loves dogs.

00:11:19   Who doesn't love dogs?

00:11:20   - A lot of people.

00:11:21   I don't know how they survive.

00:11:22   Yeah.

00:11:23   Like what is their joy in life if not for dogs?

00:11:25   - Yeah, and I was trying to do it from a survey respective.

00:11:28   Like people might not know that much about you

00:11:31   because it's not like we talk about,

00:11:32   you know, you mention your dog,

00:11:33   but it's not like you spend a lot of time

00:11:35   dwelling on it on the show or whatever.

00:11:36   So what's Casey?

00:11:37   Like, and again, these are the survey answers people--

00:11:39   - Cars, number one cars.

00:11:41   Like that's-- - Sure.

00:11:42   I mean, I don't know if that would be number one.

00:11:44   I think number one might be Velveeta, but you know.

00:11:46   (laughing)

00:11:48   But you know Velveeta would be on the list, right?

00:11:52   - See, the thing is, I actually don't care about Velveeta

00:11:54   as that much at all. - I know, but it's

00:11:55   on your index card. - But I 1000% agree

00:11:58   that it would end up on the list.

00:11:58   - Because it's like it's odd and it's a thing

00:12:01   that's associated with you.

00:12:02   - No, I completely agree, completely agree.

00:12:04   - I'm gonna say fatherhood.

00:12:06   - Oh, I appreciate that, that's kind of me.

00:12:07   - Maybe.

00:12:08   - Because, in part, because you are super into it now,

00:12:11   but even before you were a father,

00:12:13   you were basically a dad to the world.

00:12:16   You would like-- - In the worst or good.

00:12:18   - You were constantly emitting dad jokes

00:12:21   and you know, dad energy. - Big dad energy.

00:12:23   - You want to just code for bad jokes?

00:12:25   - Yeah, I think so, that's all right.

00:12:26   I'll still take it as a compliment.

00:12:27   - When you're not a dad, they just call them bad jokes.

00:12:29   Once you become a dad, you have a new name for it,

00:12:30   but it's the same humor.

00:12:32   - I'm gonna take that, I don't know how that was meant,

00:12:34   but I'm gonna take it as a compliment,

00:12:34   so we can go on with that.

00:12:36   - I'd also, I gotta throw in Plex.

00:12:38   - Yeah, Plex is what it'd be on there.

00:12:38   - Yeah, that's a good one, that's a good one.

00:12:40   I mean, but the Viber Slap is for Synology, right?

00:12:43   - Yeah, that's correct.

00:12:44   - And you know, you have to think of yourself

00:12:47   as a character on a TV show.

00:12:48   So you're looking for like catchphrases

00:12:50   or things that come up,

00:12:51   not necessarily things that are actually

00:12:52   the most important to you or that you care about,

00:12:53   but just that are odd enough that people would remember them

00:12:56   and associate with him.

00:12:56   So like Casey's not super into Velveeta,

00:12:59   but because we talk about it and we both don't like it

00:13:01   and he does, it becomes associated with him.

00:13:02   So anyway, that was a little game theory

00:13:04   in case you're ever on feuding families,

00:13:06   which is legally distinct from Family Feud.

00:13:08   - Oh, my word.

00:13:10   All right, so why did we play feuding families?

00:13:12   Thank you, Jon, that went in a direction

00:13:13   I was not expecting, but that was fun.

00:13:15   Why did we play feuding families?

00:13:16   like I mentioned earlier, it was because that we were trying to raise money for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:13:22   So here's the thing. You have at least one dollar, probably more than one, but at least one. And they would like to

00:13:28   accept that dollar and put it to good use. And maybe,

00:13:33   maybe that one dollar will be the one dollar that just tips them over the edge and being able to fund

00:13:40   the cure for childhood cancer. Yeah, it may not happen, but you never know. You never know. It could be your one dollar.

00:13:46   So here's the thing. You've got a dollar, maybe several, maybe hundreds, maybe even thousands, and they would like to accept that one, several, or

00:13:53   hundreds, or thousands at stjude.org/ATP.

00:13:57   S-T-J-U-D-E dot org slash ATP. And if you can, and if you would like, you can throw a little bit of money towards St. Jude

00:14:04   Children's Research Hospital. Why St. Jude, you ask? Well, thank you for asking. It's because their mission,

00:14:10   which has been going on for 60 years, is to have no child

00:14:16   pass away from childhood cancer and they have made tremendous tremendous strides

00:14:21   in these last 60 years. I don't have the figures in front of me but they've

00:14:24   they've absolutely flipped the ratios from being absolutely terrible to at

00:14:29   least okay which is a humongous improvement if not actually good. So they

00:14:34   are working tirelessly to try to end childhood cancer. The research that they

00:14:39   do they share with the world so this isn't just an American thing. Yes the

00:14:42   American healthcare system is utterly and probably forever broken, but that's

00:14:47   not the only thing that St. Jude does. They help all of their families, even

00:14:51   international families, and they share all their research, and they do this

00:14:54   without charging families a dime, which is really incredible, especially here in

00:14:58   America. So please go to stjude.org/ATP and throw a little bit of money

00:15:03   their way. Also, I would like to do a little bit of quick follow-up with

00:15:06   regard to St. Jude. Guillaume has been located and stickers have already been

00:15:10   In fact, they may have already arrived.

00:15:12   He was the individual -- is, as far as I know --

00:15:15   the individual leader for individual donations.

00:15:18   And we still also want to send one more thanks

00:15:21   to the fine folks at 1Password,

00:15:22   who are far and away the group leaders.

00:15:25   But Guillaume was the individual leader.

00:15:27   So thank you, and stickers have been dispatched already.

00:15:30   Like I said, probably already there.

00:15:32   So, stjut.org/atp.

00:15:35   That being said, we have one more piece of housekeeping.

00:15:37   housekeeping, we also have another episode of ATP Movie Club for members. If you are not a member, you can go to ATP.fm/join

00:15:45   and you can become a member and you will get all of the episodes of ATP Movie Club.

00:15:49   We are going to do three. There's one already released. By the time you hear this, there will probably be a second and

00:15:55   this time it is my turn to pick a movie.

00:15:58   And we spent some time on the episode discussing why I picked this movie, if I'm not mistaken.

00:16:03   We recorded it a couple of weeks ago now, but I believe we did.

00:16:05   If we need to, we can cover that another time. But suffice it to say, I did not choose what everyone expected,

00:16:12   The Hunt for October. And instead I chose the, what is it, 2003? I should have this in front of me. I think it's 2003.

00:16:20   Classic, absolute classic, starring

00:16:24   Dwayne Johnson and Sean William Scott, The Rundown.

00:16:27   Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt a modern classic.

00:16:30   So, if you would like to hear me and Marco and John

00:16:34   discuss the modern classic, the 2003 film, The Rundown,

00:16:38   check it out at ATP.fm/join.

00:16:41   Oh, and we should also do one more

00:16:43   minor piece of housekeeping.

00:16:44   Marco, do you wanna talk about the bootleg

00:16:46   versus non-bootleg, et cetera, feeds

00:16:47   with regard to the movie club?

00:16:48   Please and thank you.

00:16:49   - Oh, yeah, so, since this is the very first

00:16:53   premium member content we ever published,

00:16:56   a bunch of weird edge cases and questions came up

00:16:58   as we were doing it and a couple of CMS bugs

00:17:00   even that I fixed, but anyway.

00:17:02   So the debate, the question came,

00:17:06   should this be in the bootleg feed?

00:17:09   'Cause the bootleg contains the unedited livestreams

00:17:11   of the show and there was no unedited livestream

00:17:14   of the member specials.

00:17:16   It's just, there's only an edited version.

00:17:19   And so at first the CMS was unintentionally written quote,

00:17:24   written to only put it in the main feed,

00:17:27   but many members subscribe only to the bootleg feed

00:17:30   because that's just how they prefer to listen to the show.

00:17:32   They prefer the unedited show.

00:17:33   And so once I fixed the glitch,

00:17:36   there's actually a bug and unintended behavior

00:17:40   that it was leaving those out.

00:17:41   Now these will appear in both feeds.

00:17:44   So the only inconvenience is if you happen to subscribe

00:17:47   to both the member ad-free feed and the bootleg feed,

00:17:52   you will get two copies, one on each feed.

00:17:55   but I think most people pick one or the other

00:17:58   and don't usually subscribe to both.

00:17:59   And that way, no matter which feed you subscribe to,

00:18:03   if there is any member-specific content,

00:18:05   whether it has a bootleg version or not,

00:18:07   you will get that episode.

00:18:08   - I think this is one more opportunity to remind people

00:18:10   that hey, if you're an ATP member,

00:18:12   you get access to both of those things.

00:18:13   The bootleg feed, which is the unedited feed of the show,

00:18:16   which I'm not sure why people want to listen to,

00:18:18   but they do, and the edited feed,

00:18:20   which is the show as it's released to everybody,

00:18:23   but you get a version with no ads in it.

00:18:25   - Yeah, it's pretty sweet no matter how you slice it.

00:18:27   So ATP.fm/join.

00:18:30   Thank you for everyone who has already a member,

00:18:33   who has joined, who has commented on the recordings.

00:18:35   We had a lot of fun doing them.

00:18:37   Again, we don't have, sitting here now,

00:18:39   any particular plans for future members-only content.

00:18:42   I'm sure it will happen eventually,

00:18:44   but we aren't currently planning on making a habit of it,

00:18:47   but it was a lot of fun to do something

00:18:49   just for the members, 'cause we love everyone that listens.

00:18:51   We might love our members just to touch more though,

00:18:53   I'm gonna be honest.

00:18:54   So, ATP.fm/joy.

00:18:56   - And let us know what you think of it

00:18:57   and let us know your wacky ideas for members only content.

00:19:00   Again, no promises that we will listen to any of them,

00:19:02   but I love hearing them because you have a lot of good ideas.

00:19:05   - Yeah, that is genuinely very true.

00:19:06   The tough thing is, is that we're all very lazy

00:19:08   and we don't wanna do something super involved like by--

00:19:10   - Speak for yourself, I'm ready to do stuff all the time.

00:19:12   It's just, you know, if it's like go skydiving together,

00:19:14   it's probably not gonna happen, but hey, interesting idea.

00:19:16   - Well, but I think the thing that would be the most fun

00:19:18   would be for all of us to play Destiny together.

00:19:20   and I have no equipment with which to play Destiny.

00:19:23   - The thing that would be the most fun is Cooking with Jon,

00:19:24   but that just wants to be a video show,

00:19:26   and we can make video. - That's a lot of things

00:19:28   that have a high bar and that don't lend themselves

00:19:31   well to podcasting, so keep that in mind when suggested.

00:19:34   - Someday we're gonna find a way to do

00:19:35   Cooking with Jon in audio form.

00:19:36   I don't know how, I was thinking earlier,

00:19:38   like, how could we do this?

00:19:40   - What if we did the sort of thing where,

00:19:43   is it Brad and Mike do the Build a Lego set,

00:19:47   but only one of them has the instructions

00:19:49   and the other one is doing the building for,

00:19:51   isn't that their member special on Relay every year?

00:19:53   What if we did something like that?

00:19:54   - Yeah, but I think that even that kind of thing,

00:19:56   I think that wants to be video.

00:19:58   And Cooking with Jon,

00:20:00   it has to be like a live reaction video.

00:20:03   You have to have Jon live reacting to one of us

00:20:06   trying to cook food in his style

00:20:08   and doing everything wrong.

00:20:10   That's what that show would be.

00:20:12   And yeah, I don't know how we do that in audio form.

00:20:15   - Let me remind you, if I remember,

00:20:17   I will put it in the show notes,

00:20:18   But I, well, all three of us, it wasn't just me,

00:20:20   all three of us were together many moons ago

00:20:22   at John's house around Christmas time.

00:20:24   I don't remember exactly when it was.

00:20:24   - This is just a big trauma in your life.

00:20:26   You've repeated it like six times in the show.

00:20:28   - It is a trauma. - I'm sorry,

00:20:28   this is such a profound--

00:20:30   - It was a profound moment in my life, John.

00:20:33   He asked me to help him make pizza,

00:20:35   and my recollection of the pizza was that

00:20:36   it was very, very good.

00:20:37   I was happy to help him make pizza.

00:20:39   He asked me to shred, what was it, mozzarella?

00:20:41   I don't even remember what cheese it was.

00:20:42   It was surely mozzarella, and I attempted to shred it,

00:20:46   and he immediately was aghast.

00:20:48   and informed me that I had done this utterly incorrectly,

00:20:51   took his beloved cheese grater from my cold, dead hands,

00:20:55   which had died from embarrassment,

00:20:57   and then immediately, on the same plate,

00:21:00   showed me and instructed me on the correct way

00:21:02   to grate cheese.

00:21:03   So cooking with Jon should happen eventually one day,

00:21:06   but no promises.

00:21:07   - You were doing it like someone

00:21:08   who had never grated cheese before.

00:21:10   - Right, probably. - Like literally

00:21:10   had never done it before.

00:21:11   - I had done it before, but not a lot.

00:21:13   - Well, I mean, it showed, so that's why I said,

00:21:15   like, if you're not, you know--

00:21:16   - I found it, I found it, all right.

00:21:18   - I just needed to take over.

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00:23:17   - All right, can you tell me, John,

00:23:23   about Apple Pay looking for a quote unquote

00:23:25   valid address, please?

00:23:26   - I complain about this.

00:23:27   Last week, the Etsy was rejecting my Apple Pay payments

00:23:30   because they thought all my addresses were invalid,

00:23:32   and then I got the same rejection

00:23:33   when I was buying my iPhone,

00:23:34   but luckily it went through eventually.

00:23:35   Tons of people wrote in to say,

00:23:37   "Hey, I've had that happen to me as well."

00:23:39   It's very difficult to tell whether it actually is a problem

00:23:41   or it's just that when you say you've experienced a problem,

00:23:43   you'll hear from all the other people

00:23:44   who did experience the problem.

00:23:46   So I don't know if this is a new thing or whatever,

00:23:49   but it is very common.

00:23:51   Graham Dobbie wrote in about an Apple Pay issue

00:23:54   that he was having at Etsy as well.

00:23:56   He said, "I had the same issue paying Etsy using Apple Pay.

00:24:00   "No combination of changing or deleting addresses

00:24:02   "made any difference,

00:24:02   "but Apple Pay worked perfectly well on other websites.

00:24:05   "After back and forth with Etsy support,

00:24:06   the issue was left unresolved. The last I heard was this quote, "Our team is still

00:24:11   looking into things with the engineers. In the meantime, checking out not using

00:24:15   Apple Pay will allow you to proceed with the purchase." This was in October 2018. So

00:24:20   that does not bode well for Etsy working out whatever the problem was with Apple

00:24:24   Pay on their website. That's not great. The only thing I heard about this that

00:24:28   was sort of substantive and not like, you know, just like people relaying their own

00:24:31   experiences was the idea that some shipping or logistics companies will give you a discount,

00:24:39   will give the site, the store, the e-commerce site, a discount on their shipping if the

00:24:45   address that they send to is on their pre-approved list of known valid addresses or whatever,

00:24:51   right?

00:24:52   Because that's what explains why would a store ever stop you from checking out?

00:24:55   You don't want anything in the checkout flow that stops you from making the purchase.

00:25:00   So what could possibly motivate sites to do this or payment processors to do this?

00:25:05   And when it comes to the sites doing this, because websites also tend to complain about

00:25:08   your address or offer you alternatives or whatever, is they're trying to get a cheaper

00:25:12   shipping rate for themselves.

00:25:14   Whether or not they pass that on to you.

00:25:15   They're trying to get a cheaper shipping rate and saying, "Hey, you entered 123 Main Street.

00:25:21   You sure you didn't mean this address?"

00:25:23   It's always in all caps.

00:25:24   "123 Main ST period.

00:25:26   Would you like to send to that one?"

00:25:28   And usually you can pick, no, I want to send to the one

00:25:29   that I wrote, not the one that you wrote.

00:25:31   But in some cases, in some countries, in some situations,

00:25:34   there is a financial incentive for them to only send

00:25:37   to one of these lists of pre-approved addresses.

00:25:40   And maybe that has something to do with what's happening

00:25:42   with that play thing.

00:25:43   Or it could be something totally unrelated.

00:25:45   I don't know.

00:25:46   But anyway, it's a common problem

00:25:48   and no one knows the solution.

00:25:49   - So the iPhone 14, 14 Pro and 14 Max have all been released.

00:25:53   We're going to talk about that in a little bit.

00:25:55   But the iPhone 14 in particular has a completely new design.

00:26:00   And reading from iFixit,

00:26:03   Apple has completely redesigned the internals

00:26:04   of the iPhone 14 to make it easier to repair.

00:26:07   It is not at all visible from the outside,

00:26:08   but this is a big deal.

00:26:10   It's the most significant design change

00:26:11   to the iPhone in a long time.

00:26:12   The iPhone 14 Pro and Pro Max models

00:26:14   still have the old architecture.

00:26:16   When you drop an iPhone 13,

00:26:17   its metal frame absorbs that shock,

00:26:19   transmitting and spreading the force

00:26:21   across the glued-in battery and sturdily adhered rear glass.

00:26:25   The iPhone 14 meets the same challenge,

00:26:27   but it achieves the required torsional rigidity

00:26:30   in a totally different way.

00:26:31   A new mid-frame sits between the display

00:26:34   and the guts of the phone

00:26:35   and takes the brunt of forced distribution

00:26:37   across the frame and battery.

00:26:39   That is super cool, and in a way,

00:26:41   I kinda wish I had a 14 and not a 14 Pro.

00:26:44   - Yeah, the big sale here is like,

00:26:45   it used to be that phones you could open up

00:26:47   from the screen side, like you'd pop off the screen,

00:26:50   and then you could replace the screen and do other stuff,

00:26:53   but you couldn't open it from the back.

00:26:55   It was basically like a bathtub kind of,

00:26:57   and then the screen with the lid on the top.

00:26:59   So if you needed to replace something

00:27:00   that was basically exposed on the back of the phone,

00:27:03   you would have to open up the front,

00:27:05   dig out all of the guts, and get to the thing

00:27:07   that was underneath that you wanted to repair.

00:27:09   And the new 14, you can open it from the front or the back,

00:27:13   and the mid-frame they're talking about,

00:27:15   it's like there's a, you know,

00:27:16   so there's the ring around the outside that you feel,

00:27:18   you know, when you grab the phone,

00:27:19   and then inside the phone there's this skinny metal piece

00:27:23   that sits kind of in the middle of the sandwich

00:27:25   and the back stuff is on the back side of that

00:27:27   and the front stuff is on the front side of that.

00:27:29   So if you wanna replace something that's on the back,

00:27:31   now you can take off the back part.

00:27:33   Or if you break the back,

00:27:34   like if you break the glass back on your iPhone,

00:27:37   now they can just take off that back glass and replace it.

00:27:40   Or if you wanna get it something

00:27:41   that's on the very back of the iPhone,

00:27:43   you can just pry off the back glass

00:27:45   and get it out immediately and the screen's the same deal.

00:27:47   If you just wanna replace the screen,

00:27:48   you pull that off the front of the phone.

00:27:49   Way more repairable.

00:27:50   You should watch the video of like how well

00:27:52   they've done this, how all the connectors

00:27:54   are threaded through and you could remove all the pieces.

00:27:57   Big change in repairability.

00:28:00   And as you noted, the Pro and the Pro Max

00:28:04   do not have this new design.

00:28:06   They still have the old design where you can open up

00:28:09   the front real easily but the back is just one piece

00:28:12   and it's really difficult to do.

00:28:14   And that is reflected in the repair prices.

00:28:16   So this is like no Apple Care, out of warranty,

00:28:19   like you broke it, how much does it cost to fix it?

00:28:21   The iPhone 14, if you break the back glass,

00:28:24   $150 to repair it if it's out of warranty,

00:28:26   you know, no Apple Care. - That's nothing.

00:28:28   - That's awesome. - That's amazing.

00:28:30   - The iPhone 14 Pro Max, $550 for that same thing.

00:28:34   - Oh, golly. (laughing)

00:28:36   - And the iFixit people say,

00:28:37   and like that's not because they're ripping you off,

00:28:39   it's because the huge amount of labor,

00:28:41   and like 'cause you have to basically pull all the guts

00:28:43   out of the phone to get,

00:28:44   because you have to remove the part that's broken.

00:28:48   You gotta pull all the guts out of it.

00:28:49   They even show, in one of the older phones,

00:28:51   probably sure the new ones too,

00:28:52   to get to sort of unglue the back from the MagSafe,

00:28:56   or the, what do you call it,

00:28:58   the wireless charging coil or whatever.

00:29:00   They had a laser they would use to burn off the adhesive

00:29:03   and it would go back and forth,

00:29:04   or you'd have to shatter the glass

00:29:06   and pull off the little shards of glass with tweezers.

00:29:09   It was expensive because it took a huge amount of time

00:29:11   and it was so labor intensive.

00:29:12   So it's fascinating that the iPhone 14,

00:29:14   the non-pro one, has this way better design

00:29:17   for repairability, but the expensive phones don't.

00:29:21   And you know, I think it will eventually trickle up

00:29:24   to the rest of the iPhone line,

00:29:26   because people are like, "I wonder why Apple's doing this,

00:29:28   "or they're being so nice."

00:29:29   No, of course Apple's doing this.

00:29:31   When they have repairs that are easier to do,

00:29:34   that helps them, because you get fewer botched repairs

00:29:36   and fewer situations, so you have to like,

00:29:38   "Oh, we screwed up your phone trying to repair it,

00:29:40   "and we have to give you a whole new phone," or whatever.

00:29:42   repairability helps Apple a lot.

00:29:44   Helps customers a little too,

00:29:45   in terms of paying less when you break it or whatever,

00:29:47   but there's no question about why Apple would be motivated

00:29:51   to make its phones easier to repair.

00:29:53   That's why almost everything they've done

00:29:54   with all their products to make it easier to repair

00:29:56   is easy to justify because hey,

00:29:58   if someone comes in with a MacBook Air

00:30:00   and they broke the USB port, wouldn't it be great

00:30:02   if we could just remove the little USB port?

00:30:03   Yeah, so that's why it's on a sub-module.

00:30:05   It just makes the repair faster and easier,

00:30:06   gets the customer in and out faster.

00:30:08   And if it's under warranty,

00:30:09   you don't have to pay for a whole new logic board, right?

00:30:11   So this makes a lot of sense.

00:30:13   It's just a shame that it didn't make it

00:30:14   to the expensive phones,

00:30:15   but watch for it in the next few years.

00:30:17   - So with regard to US phones,

00:30:19   they don't have any sort of SIM slot,

00:30:23   or at least so we think,

00:30:24   but then iFixit opened it up,

00:30:26   and apparently there is the space for it.

00:30:29   It wasn't used for anything else,

00:30:30   and they just put a little plastic spacer in there.

00:30:32   So reading from iFixit,

00:30:34   it's still a little eerie and very un-Apple-like

00:30:36   to weigh space like this.

00:30:37   The plastic spacer is roughly the same size

00:30:38   as a two-by-two Lego brick and weighs half a gram.

00:30:41   - You should look at the picture of it on the iFixit thing.

00:30:43   It's literally like just a chunk of inert plastic,

00:30:45   just a space filler.

00:30:47   So, you know, we talked about that not having a SIM tray

00:30:50   gives you more internal space that you can fill with stuff.

00:30:52   In this phone, they have not filled it with stuff

00:30:54   because I mean, I guess, I think it's only the US phones

00:30:57   that don't have a SIM tray.

00:30:58   Well, anyway, the majority of phones

00:31:01   are sold outside the US, I would imagine,

00:31:03   if you count all the rest of the world

00:31:05   and they didn't wanna make two different models.

00:31:07   So yeah, we don't get that space savings.

00:31:10   But as soon as they can go eSIM everywhere,

00:31:12   you can bet they're gonna reclaim that space.

00:31:13   But it is hilarious that in this like tightest of spaces

00:31:17   where they have so many components jammed in and everything,

00:31:20   they basically just designed the same phone.

00:31:21   And they said, you know what, in the US ones,

00:31:23   the band around the outside won't have a hole in it.

00:31:25   And inside, you can see all the contacts

00:31:27   where the SIM tray would go.

00:31:28   Like the board is the same, everything's the same.

00:31:30   There's just no SIM tray,

00:31:31   but we have to put something there,

00:31:32   you know, for rigidity or whatever, little plastic spacer.

00:31:35   - Nice.

00:31:36   John, tell me about your phone case or cases.

00:31:39   I'm gonna talk more about my,

00:31:41   well, I'll talk more about our purchase experiences

00:31:43   a little later, but people wanted to know

00:31:45   what kind of cases I'm getting.

00:31:46   I mentioned last week that I had ordered

00:31:48   the bull strap black leather case

00:31:49   with an open bottom on it and mag safe.

00:31:52   And we'll put another link to that in this week's show notes

00:31:54   so you can find it.

00:31:55   I ordered a second leather case just because,

00:31:57   I don't know, redundancy, I'll talk about them in the show.

00:32:00   This one is from,

00:32:02   in case I didn't like the bull strap case,

00:32:03   'cause I know I'm probably not gonna like the buttons

00:32:05   on the bull strap case, right?

00:32:07   I ordered a second one from Ryan London,

00:32:09   and it's a black leather case with an open bottom, shocker.

00:32:13   The buttons look a little bit different

00:32:14   than they do on the Bullstrap.

00:32:16   We'll see how it goes.

00:32:17   - I also, I have a couple of case updates too.

00:32:20   I have the Apple Clear case for my iPhone 14,

00:32:23   which this is the first year

00:32:25   I've actually gotten Apple's Clear case.

00:32:26   Like I started experimenting with Clear cases last year,

00:32:30   and I'd used some third party ones,

00:32:33   and they were decent overall, fine.

00:32:36   This year, the only one I could get on day one

00:32:39   for guaranteed day one delivery was apples.

00:32:41   And so I thought, oh, let me give it a try.

00:32:43   Maybe I won't like it, but I at least wanna live with it.

00:32:46   And it's actually okay.

00:32:48   I'm actually enjoying it.

00:32:50   I think it is much nicer looking

00:32:53   than the third party ones that I've used.

00:32:55   We'll see how it ages.

00:32:57   Clear cases have a tendency to yellow over time.

00:32:59   Even the ones that say they have anti-yellowing technology

00:33:02   also themselves do yellow over time.

00:33:06   So we'll see.

00:33:07   And this is, as Jon mentioned last week,

00:33:09   the only Apple phone case that's sold right now

00:33:14   that has an open bottom.

00:33:16   And as much as it pains me to admit it,

00:33:20   I think Jon was right.

00:33:22   I think open bottoms are awesome.

00:33:24   - I think the open bottom is better,

00:33:26   but, and I'm jumping ahead a little bit here,

00:33:29   but I have the official Apple leather case.

00:33:31   It definitely has a non-open bottom,

00:33:33   and you can feel it when you do

00:33:34   the little swipey-up home gesture.

00:33:35   It does not bother me.

00:33:36   In the story of ATP for the last 10 years,

00:33:39   it does not bother me nearly as much

00:33:41   as it bothers either of you.

00:33:42   - And remember the correct nomenclature of this

00:33:44   is bare bottom.

00:33:45   That's what we're going on.

00:33:46   - Oh, my mistake. - It's not open bottom.

00:33:47   Slightly more appealing, I feel like.

00:33:49   - Yeah, fair.

00:33:50   - So if we're doing this now, then we're doing this now.

00:33:52   - Good to see.

00:33:53   - Oh, gosh.

00:33:54   - Please, stop.

00:33:55   I was gonna say this for later,

00:33:57   but since Marco mentioned it, I also got the clear case.

00:33:59   As mentioned before, this is my tied me over case

00:34:02   because both of those leather cases

00:34:03   are coming like mid-October or something.

00:34:05   best case scenario, so I need a case until then,

00:34:07   so I got the clear Apple one,

00:34:08   because it's got the open bottom.

00:34:10   This is the worst case I have ever owned.

00:34:13   (laughing)

00:34:14   For any iPhone.

00:34:15   - Oh my word.

00:34:16   - I like it, it's all right.

00:34:17   - I didn't think it was gonna be a big deal.

00:34:19   Ah, it's a clear case, I don't like how it looks,

00:34:21   it'll probably feel weird, but you know, whatever,

00:34:23   it's just it's hiding me over.

00:34:24   I was not prepared for the thing that would bother me

00:34:26   the most about this case.

00:34:27   It's not, oh, you get crumbs underneath it,

00:34:29   it's not like, oh, it's too slippery or whatever,

00:34:31   it's not that it's clear and ugly or whatever,

00:34:33   All those things are factors,

00:34:34   but I knew about those and think it would be fine.

00:34:36   I don't know if you're gonna be able to hear this.

00:34:38   See if you, I'm gonna put this in front of my microphone.

00:34:40   See if you can pick this up at all.

00:34:41   If not, then I will just describe it later.

00:34:43   - I hear some like crinkling almost.

00:34:46   - Is that like when you push the buttons?

00:34:48   Is it making a creaking sound?

00:34:49   - When I put my phone into this case,

00:34:51   directly out of the box, directly into the case,

00:34:54   like not touched by human hands, clean room style, right?

00:34:57   So phone case goes in or whatever.

00:35:00   this thing creaks inside this case like crazy.

00:35:05   It's like the phone is constantly moving micrometers

00:35:08   back and forth and each time it does,

00:35:10   it overcomes the static friction against the case

00:35:13   and then re-sticks to it.

00:35:14   It's like, click, click, click, click.

00:35:15   You can imagine like something's sticking to it

00:35:17   and then pulling away, sticking to it.

00:35:18   Every time I pick up this phone, I feel the case move.

00:35:21   It moves in, it moves out, the phone moves up, moves down.

00:35:24   You'll be saying,

00:35:24   "Maybe you don't have the phone seated all the way.

00:35:26   "Believe me, I checked a million times."

00:35:27   Is this not seated?

00:35:29   Is it not in the case?

00:35:30   It's in the case.

00:35:31   Every time I grab my phone, it's like this case,

00:35:35   does like, it's not like it doesn't fit,

00:35:37   it's not like it's too loose, but it creaks and it moves.

00:35:40   It feels terrible, it sounds terrible,

00:35:42   I thought it would get broken in overtime,

00:35:44   like maybe it's just creaking because it's new,

00:35:45   but it hasn't.

00:35:46   Every time I pick up my phone, I hate this case more.

00:35:49   - Oh my word. - Nothing like the puns

00:35:50   being weird, nothing to do with the ugliness,

00:35:52   nothing to do with the crumbs, all those things happen.

00:35:55   I cannot stand this case.

00:35:57   I've almost thought of like,

00:35:58   maybe I should just go bare without it,

00:35:59   'cause it's so bad.

00:36:01   How could they screw this up so badly?

00:36:03   When I pick up my phone, I don't wanna feel anything move,

00:36:05   let alone hear creaking or snapping or pulling away.

00:36:09   Oh, it's so bad, so bad, I hate it so much.

00:36:11   - I mean, for whatever it's worth,

00:36:13   mine doesn't do any of those things,

00:36:14   and I have the exact same phone in the exact same case,

00:36:16   so maybe it's just a flaw?

00:36:18   - Can you like pick up your phone now

00:36:21   and like do a little bit of torsional rigidity check?

00:36:24   - Yeah, yeah.

00:36:24   - Do you feel the case moving?

00:36:26   - If I like literally twist the phone,

00:36:28   Like I can get a very-- - Like a little tiny bit.

00:36:30   - Very slight movement, but I've literally,

00:36:32   like in regular picking up and handling it,

00:36:34   that never happens.

00:36:35   - Pick up the phone, put your fans on either side of it,

00:36:37   and just squeeze, just squeeze the sides.

00:36:39   Does the case move?

00:36:40   - My fingers just cracked. (laughs)

00:36:42   But no, the case does not move, no.

00:36:44   - My case does.

00:36:45   If I'm squeezing, like where the,

00:36:47   look on the back where the circle

00:36:48   almost meets the vertical line,

00:36:50   put your fingers on the opposite side of that and squeeze.

00:36:53   - I mean, it's kinda low,

00:36:53   but no, it's also not there either, no.

00:36:56   No matter where I squeeze on the sides, it doesn't do it.

00:36:57   Maybe my case is flawed or has some problem with it

00:37:01   or whatever, but it is so bad.

00:37:03   And you wouldn't think this would bother you that much.

00:37:05   Every time I pick it up, I grab it,

00:37:07   and it's like I feel that case move,

00:37:08   and it feels insecure, and it feels gross,

00:37:10   and I hate it, I hate it so much.

00:37:12   - Yeah, mine definitely does not do that.

00:37:14   The only complaint I have about this case

00:37:16   is that it is not as grippy feeling

00:37:19   as the third-party ones are.

00:37:21   The Apple cases have made for me

00:37:23   like a little bit harder plastic

00:37:24   that's a little bit less tacky.

00:37:27   but it's fine, I mean, you know, once,

00:37:29   it was kind of weird the very first day,

00:37:30   it seemed to be, I guess for manufacturing or something,

00:37:33   it seemed to be coated in like a slight layer

00:37:35   of like grease almost.

00:37:37   - Oh neat.

00:37:38   - That was kind of off-putting,

00:37:39   but you know, within one day of handling it,

00:37:42   that all had rubbed off,

00:37:43   and so now it just feels like plastic and it feels fine.

00:37:46   Yeah, I like, you know, we'll see how it ages,

00:37:49   but so far I like it a lot.

00:37:51   - Yeah, obviously this will be immediately coming

00:37:53   out of the phone when any of my other cases come,

00:37:54   but in the meantime I'm just grinding my teeth and burying it.

00:37:58   - Oh, I'll also say that the only other case

00:38:00   I've ordered so far is the only one

00:38:03   that I couldn't get last year

00:38:05   due to various back order issues

00:38:07   that everyone recommended, the Pitaka.

00:38:10   So I have that one coming, it's gonna be here

00:38:12   I think in a few days and I'll let you know how it goes.

00:38:15   (upbeat music)

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00:40:16   I would like to do a very brief bit of long-term follow-up with regard to my channels setup

00:40:23   and HD Home Run.

00:40:26   And if you recall, the way I had things working previously is that I used TV Everywhere to

00:40:30   log into my Fios account, and that would let me stream things to the channels app.

00:40:36   But I had heard through the grapevine that the right way to do this is to do what Jon

00:40:41   did which is get a HD home run prime I believe it's called and that has a cable card input

00:40:48   and that would let you if you speak to your cable company if they support it that would

00:40:53   let you get basically everything that you get on cable except maybe like premium channels

00:40:57   which I don't pay for anyway and you don't have to stream it it's not coming across the

00:41:01   air or anything like that it's pretty much exactly like having a TiVo right John right

00:41:05   anyway so I had a listener who was kind enough to send one of these to me and I sat on it

00:41:10   for a couple of weeks, then I finally got around

00:41:11   to asking my Verizon Fios people for a cable card.

00:41:15   That came in.

00:41:16   It is, which I knew but had forgotten,

00:41:19   it is pretty much a PCMCIA card.

00:41:22   Most of you are probably like, what's that?

00:41:24   Which is the correct response.

00:41:26   - That's amazing.

00:41:27   - You just mean, it's a PC card though,

00:41:28   it's not a PCMCIA card, right?

00:41:30   - What's the difference?

00:41:31   - It's just, they later renamed it to PC card.

00:41:33   - That's what I thought.

00:41:34   - Right, but it's a newer, isn't PC card a newer standard?

00:41:37   - It might be like, you know, version two of the same thing,

00:41:39   but I think it was just a shortening of the name

00:41:42   in a newer version to make it a little bit more

00:41:44   consumer friendly than a PCMCI.

00:41:47   - It's like a PCI, the PCI bus version two

00:41:50   versus PCI bus version three,

00:41:51   except that they renamed it between two and three, I think.

00:41:53   But anyway, you can say PC card.

00:41:55   - Yeah. - Regardless.

00:41:57   - If you say PC card, people might think

00:41:59   like just a slot card, like a PCI card that you put in a PC.

00:42:02   - Yeah, I know, they picked a bad name.

00:42:04   - Well, yeah, they went from one bad name

00:42:06   to a slightly less bad name.

00:42:08   - Yes.

00:42:09   - Good thing we have USB 4 version 2.0 coming soon.

00:42:12   - Yeah, right, exactly.

00:42:14   Yeah, same as it ever was.

00:42:15   Yeah, and I'm looking,

00:42:16   I'm glancing at the Wikipedia entries.

00:42:17   There is a different entry for PC card versus PCMCIA.

00:42:21   I'm unclear, oh, I guess PCMCIA is the association,

00:42:24   whereas the PC card is, strictly speaking,

00:42:27   you're right, Jon.

00:42:28   - I believe that was retconned that way.

00:42:30   - See, okay, that's what I thought too.

00:42:31   - Yeah, well, that's the way all these names work,

00:42:32   like USB 3.0 Gen 2, choose to be USB 3.2 or whatever.

00:42:38   - When they briefly did two by two, USB 3.0, 3.2, two by two.

00:42:43   - PCMCIA has something going for it,

00:42:45   the USB 4 version 2.0 hasn't dared to do yet,

00:42:49   Roman numerals, throw them in the mix, why not?

00:42:52   'Cause they've got type two, type three, type four,

00:42:54   all Roman numerals.

00:42:55   - Nice, in any case, so yeah, the cable card is to my eyes,

00:42:59   I don't care if it's PCMCIA, PC card, whatever,

00:43:01   it's one of those things.

00:43:02   One of the things that us people like Marco and me

00:43:04   would get a PCMCIA wireless adapter for our laptops

00:43:09   back when we were at college.

00:43:10   That was the last time I had worked with one of these.

00:43:12   And we talked about X jack, or whatever it's called,

00:43:15   where you had a modem and the little thing would,

00:43:17   what do you call that, where you push in

00:43:19   and the thing pops out.

00:43:20   It had a little receptacle for the RJ11, it was super cool.

00:43:23   - You call it really breakable.

00:43:25   - Yeah, well that's a fact, that's a fact.

00:43:26   So anyway, so I get this HDHomer and Trime

00:43:29   from a very kind listener.

00:43:30   I asked Verizon to send me the cable card.

00:43:34   They do.

00:43:35   I plug it all in.

00:43:36   I try to set it all up.

00:43:37   And of course, I tried to do the online self-service

00:43:41   activation.

00:43:42   It didn't work.

00:43:42   I forget exactly why.

00:43:44   So then I have to get on a chat with the Verizon people.

00:43:46   And I read to them the magical numerals that I need to read

00:43:50   to them.

00:43:50   And that didn't work.

00:43:52   And then of course, they're like, well, look at the TV

00:43:54   and tell me this.

00:43:56   And I had to explain.

00:43:58   It's not connected to a TV, you see.

00:43:59   It's like a capture box and this and that,

00:44:02   and that didn't go over well, especially over chat.

00:44:04   - You're like their worst nightmare.

00:44:06   - Oh, I know.

00:44:07   - You can get the cable card info

00:44:08   right from the channel's web UI.

00:44:12   - Well, I don't think I got it from the channel's web UI,

00:44:14   but I absolutely could get it from HD Home Run web UI.

00:44:17   And so anyways, one way or another,

00:44:19   it eventually turned out that the person I was speaking to

00:44:22   is very kind, escalated to some other magical person

00:44:26   and that other magical person,

00:44:27   with no further info from me, flipped magical switches,

00:44:30   and then it all got working.

00:44:31   So it was a bit of a pain in the butt,

00:44:33   but I gotta tell you, once you have the setup,

00:44:35   and as much as I'm snarking on John and his beloved TiVo,

00:44:37   like I've never had a TiVo,

00:44:39   I don't know what the TiVo experience is like, but--

00:44:40   - TiVo gets the premium channels with a cable card, just FYI.

00:44:43   - Oh, fair, fair.

00:44:44   And well, maybe that is possible with channels.

00:44:45   I honestly don't know.

00:44:46   I'm not saying it is or it isn't.

00:44:47   I didn't think it was possible, but I am not sure.

00:44:50   One way or the other, this is so nice.

00:44:52   Like if you're going to pay for a TV setup,

00:44:55   which most people, including me, probably shouldn't.

00:44:58   It is so nice because then I have the entirety

00:45:01   of my cable everywhere, because like Plex,

00:45:04   channels will work outside the house, inside the house.

00:45:06   And now, instead of having a big honkin' table box,

00:45:09   okay, table box, a big honkin' cable box

00:45:12   with a spinning hard drive in it in my living room,

00:45:15   now the cable box has just arrived back at Verizon today

00:45:18   because I don't need it anymore.

00:45:20   And I am saving a whopping like $2 a month

00:45:22   by not having a DVR in my house,

00:45:24   because instead of charging me like $13,

00:45:26   they're charging me $10,

00:45:28   so I guess I'm saving three bucks a month.

00:45:29   But they're charging me $10 for the cable card

00:45:31   instead of 15 for the DVR with its godawful interface.

00:45:35   But it is really, really nice.

00:45:36   I'm really, really enjoying it so far.

00:45:38   And what's super cool about it is when we tailgate,

00:45:41   which was discussed on Upgrade Plus this week,

00:45:44   when we tailgate at the University of Virginia,

00:45:46   which is where my wife went to school,

00:45:48   we will have a TV set up there.

00:45:50   And if you wanna watch another football game,

00:45:52   like for example, the Virginia Tech game,

00:45:53   which is where I went to school, you can hook up an iPad to the TV and have it play your

00:46:02   cable at home through the network, through the internet, through my Verizon wireless

00:46:08   connection to the TV sitting in the middle of a field at UVA, which is pretty freaking

00:46:13   rad.

00:46:14   So, granted, I could have done this with streaming and it was like directly from ESPN, but the

00:46:18   quality would probably be worse.

00:46:20   It's still, it's really cool.

00:46:21   Nobody should care about this, but if you do care about it,

00:46:24   it's super great, which is another theme for ATV.

00:46:28   Marco, tell me about your glasses

00:46:29   and blue-blocking lenses, please.

00:46:32   - I don't know how much follow-up I can really do yet

00:46:34   because I don't actually have good glasses yet,

00:46:38   but we did hear from a number of people

00:46:40   about the topic of the blue-blocking lenses.

00:46:43   The consensus seems to be there are various degrees

00:46:47   of blue light blockage, and they correspond directly

00:46:51   to how much they do give a yellowish color cast

00:46:54   to the image that you see.

00:46:55   Because of course, you know, like I had asked last episode,

00:46:58   because I had heard from the optometrist

00:47:00   that you don't really notice,

00:47:02   there is no noticeable color cast,

00:47:03   and yeah, it turns out that's probably BS.

00:47:07   - I think it might be true in the same sense

00:47:08   that if you've ever gone skiing and worn yellow ski goggles

00:47:11   'cause you were born in the '70s,

00:47:13   you put the ski goggles over your face,

00:47:15   yellow or orange ski goggles that are like super yellow

00:47:18   or super orange, right?

00:47:20   But then after you've had the goggles on for a little bit, your brain adjusts and you stop

00:47:24   noticing that everything looks like pee.

00:47:26   The reason you always look like, the reason you keep noticing it with night shift is because

00:47:30   only your phone looks like pee, right?

00:47:33   The rest of the world doesn't.

00:47:35   But when you put the goggles on your face, or I would imagine blue blocking glasses,

00:47:38   your brain just recalibrates and everything looks normal.

00:47:40   And in the case of ski goggles, until you pick the ski goggles up and then the snow

00:47:44   is blindingly blue, right?

00:47:46   So I imagine that's what the eye doctor is trying to say, "Oh, you don't notice."

00:47:50   But it absolutely colors things and with glasses unlike goggles you can look under or over

00:47:54   the glasses which is how I spend half my life getting away with wearing my driving glasses

00:47:58   and being able to read my phone.

00:48:00   You look under your glasses because I'm not quite ready to have progressives or bifocals

00:48:03   yet.

00:48:04   So you still, with glasses you can still see the true colors out of your peripheral vision

00:48:09   and under your glasses and I think that would make you continue to notice the fact that

00:48:14   they are giving everything a yellowish cast.

00:48:17   But I guess if you get big old person wrap around blue blockers, maybe you'll kind

00:48:21   of like see goggles, you won't be able to see any unfiltered light and your brain will

00:48:25   just readjust.

00:48:26   - I mean for a number of years now, my preferred driving sunglasses have had slightly gold

00:48:33   lenses and they do the same thing intentionally.

00:48:38   And the reason I like them for driving is that it allows me to have, they're in these

00:48:43   decent glasses, they have good quality lenses

00:48:46   and they're polarized, but they're not that dark.

00:48:49   But they are slightly gold or brown tinted,

00:48:52   which means they block more blue.

00:48:54   And so what this does is it allows me to have a lot

00:48:58   of eye relief during driving from sun and stuff,

00:49:02   but without making the, I guess, image too dark.

00:49:07   And so I love them in the winter because there's a lot

00:49:10   of glare in the winter in various directions and everything,

00:49:12   but there's not a ton of overall light,

00:49:14   necessarily, in the winter, and it's great for that.

00:49:17   But it definitely does make everything look

00:49:20   a little bit warmer, color temperature-wise.

00:49:22   And so, anyway, so what we heard from,

00:49:24   we heard from a lot of listeners

00:49:25   who have tried blue-blocking glasses,

00:49:27   you know, for just regular eyeglasses,

00:49:29   and I believe the opinion was pretty solidly negative

00:49:33   on them, most people who tried them did not like them,

00:49:37   and most people said, you know, don't even bother,

00:49:40   slash I tried them and hate them, you know, or whatever.

00:49:43   So overall, not strong reviews.

00:49:46   Anyway, so I got a couple of cheap readers from Amazon

00:49:50   that came in today that I think are probably unusable.

00:49:55   (laughs)

00:49:56   I also, you know, in order to try out different things,

00:49:59   a lot of people recommended that I try out

00:50:01   intermediate distance readers, which are made more

00:50:04   for like computer screen distances

00:50:06   than like holding a book distances.

00:50:08   So I ordered one of those from one of the cheap places.

00:50:10   People kept recommending Zenni Optical and iBuyDirect.

00:50:15   So I ordered a couple from each that are really cheap.

00:50:18   And so I have, I got an intermediate on order,

00:50:20   and I have a progressive that goes from nothing to reading.

00:50:25   And I'm gonna try both of those

00:50:27   and see kinda how that goes,

00:50:28   and trying out different codings,

00:50:30   and then I'll figure out what the heck

00:50:32   is actually gonna work for me.

00:50:33   - Yeah, with regard to Zenni Optical,

00:50:35   last episode I was trying to reach for the name of a website where I had looked, and

00:50:41   ordering kids glasses was just as expensive as ordering them through the eye doctor. And

00:50:47   a lot of people were like, "Oh, you should try Zening Optical. It's super cheap." That's

00:50:51   the one I was thinking of where it's basically the same money for kids glasses. So coincidentally,

00:50:56   just this week, Michaela had her annual checkup. She's getting new glasses. The way it worked

00:51:00   this year is that it was $201 for a new set of glasses for Michaela, and I priced the

00:51:06   exact same thing with the exact same script from Zeni, and it was $174. So it was basically

00:51:12   the same money. Cheaper, but not a lot cheaper. Exactly right. And so I'm not saying that's

00:51:17   true for adults, I'm not saying that's true for anything, but for me, for my uses, because

00:51:22   I wear hard contacts, I don't get glasses regularly, and you know, those have to be

00:51:25   special ordered, but for the kids anyhow, Zenny was actually not really any cheaper,

00:51:30   but like many have said, including you Marco, I think for adults it's a very different ball

00:51:34   game.

00:51:35   Alright, finally, I was casting about asking people last episode, "Hey, is there one true

00:51:41   upgrade guide for what is the right way to handle upgrading a phone and/or watch?"

00:51:46   A handful of people recommended, but Jonathan Golbrenson was the first to do it.

00:51:51   Apple does have an official guide for this.

00:51:53   I don't really love it.

00:51:55   It's kind of choose your own adventure in a way that I'm not really in favor of, including

00:52:01   them starting with, "Well, which way would you like to do it?"

00:52:04   And I want you to tell me.

00:52:06   That's what I want is for you to tell me.

00:52:09   Quick Start, iCloud, or iTunes or Finder, which, okay, fine, but I was looking for a

00:52:13   little more specific guidance than that, and we'll talk probably right now about how we

00:52:18   did our upgrades, but I did want to at least put that link in the show notes, and thank

00:52:21   Thank you to the people who wrote it, including Jonathan.

00:52:26   We are brought to you this week by Collide.

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00:54:14   Thank you so much to Collide for sponsoring our show.

00:54:17   [music]

00:54:21   We bought and received some stuff. So who wants to start?

00:54:25   Let me start with my setup process as a cautionary tale for others.

00:54:28   Oh no.

00:54:30   I talked last week that I have such bad luck with this and I'm so bad at it.

00:54:36   And then I relistened to the episode and I heard myself saying a bunch of things

00:54:40   and I was like, "You know what? I should have listened to my past self."

00:54:43   - Oh no.

00:54:44   - I don't know why I didn't listen to my bad stuff.

00:54:46   I don't, someone needs to have some kind of intervention

00:54:48   for me when I get a new phone.

00:54:50   I got my new phone and for some reason,

00:54:54   I decided based on vague memories of dissatisfaction

00:54:57   with the transfer process last time,

00:55:00   that I should try a technique that I hadn't done recently.

00:55:05   Right, that I should, I don't remember what I did last year

00:55:08   or the year before, but I know in the recent years

00:55:10   I've been using it, doing iCloud

00:55:12   doing the direct transfer, right?

00:55:13   I'm like, you know what?

00:55:14   I haven't done an iTunes backup and restore in a while.

00:55:18   I should do that this year.

00:55:20   Why did I think that?

00:55:21   Even after on last week's show, I said, definitely

00:55:24   don't do that.

00:55:25   And I wasn't going to do it.

00:55:27   I did it.

00:55:28   So I made an encrypted backup to the Finder.

00:55:31   After fighting with this--

00:55:33   I should find the link to this document.

00:55:35   After fighting with my computer to get that to work,

00:55:37   because I plugged in my phone to my computer

00:55:38   and opened the Finder.

00:55:39   and it's like, we've detected that your,

00:55:42   I forget what the dialogue says,

00:55:43   like that your phone needs updated version of software,

00:55:46   your Mac needs, it said it needed to do

00:55:48   some kind of software update 'cause I plugged in my phone.

00:55:50   This is what the finder is saying with a little dialogue.

00:55:52   And I said, okay, go ahead.

00:55:53   And it says downloading software

00:55:54   and it gives some hilarious estimates

00:55:56   like 78 days remaining and then it downloads in two seconds.

00:56:00   And then it says installing software

00:56:01   and then it says software installation failed, sorry.

00:56:04   I was like, and I tried it like three times

00:56:06   and it just did all the same process,

00:56:08   goes through the same thing,

00:56:08   software installation failed.

00:56:10   Did some googling.

00:56:12   Eventually found a page that's like, oh, you should--

00:56:14   it's because you should try a different cable.

00:56:17   Sometimes the cables are weird.

00:56:19   Whatever.

00:56:19   I just-- I'll try anything.

00:56:20   I used the cable that came in the box with my phone,

00:56:23   and I plugged it directly into my Mac Pro

00:56:24   instead of going through a USB hub

00:56:26   and doing all the USB kind of like just try anything.

00:56:31   All the normal USB debugging.

00:56:32   Lo and behold, plugging it directly

00:56:33   into my Mac Pro with the cable it came with

00:56:35   didn't pop up that dialogue and it did an encrypted backup.

00:56:39   - Oh my gosh. - Whatever.

00:56:40   - Great.

00:56:41   - And then I put in the new phone and you know,

00:56:43   how do you wanna set up your phone?

00:56:44   It's going through the process,

00:56:45   I wanna restore from my backup,

00:56:46   I wanna restore from my encrypted backup,

00:56:48   it did the restore, it went pretty quick.

00:56:50   And then you know, I looked at my phone and I was like,

00:56:53   yep, there's all my apps in the normal places

00:56:55   I expect to see them.

00:56:56   And I had nothing.

00:56:58   I had nothing on my phone.

00:57:00   All my Slacks are signed out.

00:57:01   No Twitter accounts in my Twitter app.

00:57:03   Nothing in my two-factor apps.

00:57:05   Like this phone had never seen me before.

00:57:08   None of my preferences, none of my like,

00:57:10   other than the iCloud stuff,

00:57:11   'cause iCloud stuff did sync,

00:57:12   but like my third party non-iCloud apps, just nothing.

00:57:16   Like none of my Discords, none of anything.

00:57:18   It was just, everything was gone.

00:57:21   And I was like, why did you do this?

00:57:23   Why did you do iTunes backup?

00:57:24   You just said in the last show,

00:57:25   how is this like a legacy code path

00:57:27   and Apple's not working on it anymore.

00:57:28   And both iTunes and Direct Transfer are surely better.

00:57:30   Why, why, why did you do this?

00:57:32   I'm like, well, I just waited the hour and a half

00:57:34   for it to do it, so I just manually go through there.

00:57:37   Sign into all my slacks again.

00:57:40   I've got my other phone next to me, right?

00:57:41   - At this point, wouldn't it be faster

00:57:43   to wipe the new one and just redo it the correct way?

00:57:46   - I was in whatever fugue static I get into

00:57:48   when I get a new phone.

00:57:49   (laughing)

00:57:50   I've got the other phone next to me, right?

00:57:52   And so I'm like, sign into all the slacks,

00:57:54   then also look at the order that the slacks are

00:57:56   in the sidebar and manually reorder them.

00:57:58   - Yeah, it's a big pain in the butt.

00:57:59   I've done that a lot of times, it's terrible.

00:58:00   manually reorder the Slack store in the order that I want,

00:58:03   do the two factor, at least the two factor,

00:58:05   my app has the export, now do the export and the import,

00:58:08   and then compare them, make sure they're the same,

00:58:09   log into all your Twitter accounts,

00:58:11   reset all the preferences in Twitterrific

00:58:13   to be exactly what they were,

00:58:14   go through a screen at a time,

00:58:16   setting the preferences the same,

00:58:17   looking at the other phone,

00:58:19   just go through it all,

00:58:20   and then of course, there's no help for this still,

00:58:25   'cause this is on Apple,

00:58:26   and I'm sure both of you have the same experience,

00:58:28   go to TestFlight, install your betas

00:58:30   on top of the other apps, and it does a better job

00:58:33   of putting them where they're supposed to be, but still.

00:58:35   - Not your widgets, you gotta put all your widgets

00:58:37   back from your beta apps.

00:58:38   - And sometimes restore purchases doesn't work,

00:58:41   and it's nothing the third-party app developers

00:58:42   can do about it, 'cause TestFlight is buggy

00:58:44   when it comes to store stuff, and some store kit,

00:58:46   too, stuff isn't supported, and anyway.

00:58:48   Did all the things, and it just took so long,

00:58:51   but I'm like, what, this is my punishment.

00:58:53   I was undoing it, I was like, this is my punishment

00:58:54   for being stupid, and doing iTunes encrypted backup,

00:58:57   even though I said on the show, don't do that, it's dumb.

00:59:00   But then I got through this whole process

00:59:04   and I thought I had it all licked

00:59:05   and then I'm just doing the final sweep

00:59:07   which is going through each screen and launching the apps

00:59:09   and make sure I have all, oh I forgot,

00:59:10   adding all the cards to Apple Pay,

00:59:12   doing you know, just all the pay, logging back into Venmo,

00:59:16   like doing all the stupid things,

00:59:18   logging back into all my bank apps and my finance things

00:59:21   and setting up all, it's just such a nightmare, right?

00:59:25   And then the last, when I'm doing the final sweep

00:59:28   and going through stuff and I'm launching stuff,

00:59:30   I ranted about this in the podcast-a-thon

00:59:32   if you wanted to see me on it,

00:59:33   although it's not that interesting you're hearing

00:59:35   and a bridge version of it here.

00:59:37   The final thing that pushed me over the edge

00:59:40   was I tapped on golfing on Mars and I was on hole one.

00:59:43   - Oh no! (laughs)

00:59:46   - It's like, no!

00:59:47   That is too far 'cause there's nothing you can do.

00:59:51   Like that app developer intentionally makes it.

00:59:54   No, there's no cloud sinking.

00:59:55   If you lose your whole progress, F you,

00:59:57   'cause that's what this game is about.

00:59:59   - There's not even like a menu.

01:00:00   - There's nothing, like that is part of this game.

01:00:03   And I was like, and I just sat with that for like two hours,

01:00:06   just totally dejected.

01:00:07   And I was like, no, this cannot stand.

01:00:11   And so after spending a whole day,

01:00:14   just going through this whole process

01:00:15   of like restoring my phone, I'm like, I have to wipe it.

01:00:18   I can't, I have to start over.

01:00:22   - Oh my gosh.

01:00:23   I erased my whole phone, started it set up for new

01:00:27   and did device to device transfer.

01:00:29   Got my desert, not desert golfing, my golf on Mars,

01:00:34   thousands of holes in golf on Mars were correctly restored.

01:00:37   Still had to re-add all my cards to Apple Pay,

01:00:40   but my slacks were signed in and just, it was,

01:00:43   the moral of the story is people do not use

01:00:45   encrypted finder backups.

01:00:46   Use either device to device transfer, my recommendation,

01:00:50   or iCloud and you'll be much happier.

01:00:53   learn from my terrible mistakes.

01:00:54   Oh, and by the way, you notice I didn't mention anything

01:00:56   about the SIM transfer?

01:00:58   Worked perfectly.

01:00:59   - Yeah, the eSIM.

01:01:00   - Yeah, the screen went by so fast,

01:01:02   I barely noticed it was there.

01:01:04   It was just like, oh yeah, now we're transferring your number

01:01:06   boop, and it was done.

01:01:07   And then when I erased the phone,

01:01:08   there's another thing I had to try.

01:01:09   When I gave up and erased the phone,

01:01:11   it said, oh, so you're erasing content settings.

01:01:13   Do you want to erase the eSIM too,

01:01:15   or do you want to leave that number on this phone?

01:01:17   And I said, leave the number on this phone.

01:01:19   That worked too.

01:01:20   So the only glitch was after the second restore,

01:01:23   I had to disable Saturday and re-enable it once

01:01:25   to get like the text to come through or whatever.

01:01:28   So eSIM, totally not an issue.

01:01:31   And apparently I was distracted

01:01:33   like in Jurassic Park, clever girl,

01:01:34   and it tricked my stupid brain into doing

01:01:37   a iTunes/Finder encrypted backup restore,

01:01:40   which is garbage, never do it.

01:01:42   Anyway, my phone's set up now.

01:01:44   - So it's funny you say all that

01:01:45   because I have always and forever been a devout,

01:01:50   iTunes slash finder backup person.

01:01:52   That's what I've always done for years and years

01:01:54   and years and years.

01:01:55   I didn't believe any of this BS about how,

01:01:58   oh, you can just do it phone to phone,

01:01:59   it's worked so well, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:01   That is a bunch of baloney.

01:02:04   But somebody I know said, no, I'm telling you,

01:02:07   you have to do device to device.

01:02:09   And so in my fugue state, I thought, no,

01:02:12   there was a voice in my head that some people say

01:02:14   sounds like Squidward that told me

01:02:17   I need to do device to device.

01:02:19   And that's what I did, and it worked out great.

01:02:22   There was no problems.

01:02:23   Now the bad thing about device to device,

01:02:24   which I had forgotten, or I guess never really known

01:02:26   'cause I'd never done it, is that you lose,

01:02:29   as far as I could tell, you lose both of your phones

01:02:31   for anywhere between one and three hours.

01:02:33   Like they're both tied up, you can't do anything with them,

01:02:35   you are SOL.

01:02:37   And that's not great, but understandable.

01:02:41   Because otherwise it would kind of be a moving target

01:02:43   that it's trying to transfer.

01:02:44   But it worked really well for me.

01:02:47   The eSIM transfer for me took, I want to say, somewhere on the two-minute side to two to

01:02:54   five minutes.

01:02:55   Erin, I'd never transferred her from a physical SIM to an eSIM because I kind of wanted to

01:02:59   experience both.

01:03:00   This was a deeply stressful moment for me because if I had taken her phone and started

01:03:06   to do the transfer and then the eSIM transfer failed, then she would have been justifiably

01:03:13   very perturbed and thankfully for her it also worked no sweat. Also took somewhere between

01:03:19   two and five minutes. I noticed like you guys had said that TestFlight did not really automatically

01:03:25   restore itself but once I had TestFlight installed, if memory serves, I thought it automatically

01:03:32   tried to put back everything that had previously been installed. So the first step was, you

01:03:36   know, TestFlight wasn't even there so I have all these blank spots on my home screens.

01:03:41   TestFlight arrived and then I think I opened TestFlight once and I don't think I had to

01:03:46   actually click install.

01:03:47   I might have that incorrect though, I might be wrong about that.

01:03:50   But one way or another, once I did install all these apps, I forget which one of you

01:03:54   just said it, but yes, then TestFlight and Springboard did a really good job of figuring

01:03:58   out where these icons should be and based on where they were previously.

01:04:03   That worked out real nicely.

01:04:04   Although I realized that my caret weather widget was gone, which is what you were saying

01:04:07   a moment ago, Marco, that the widgets all disappear, which is a bummer.

01:04:11   But yeah, device-to-device transfer actually worked really well.

01:04:14   And I had also somewhat, I don't know, superstitiously done the, you know, unpair your watch in order

01:04:23   to cause it to create a backup before you do the transfer.

01:04:27   And I just let it ride, man.

01:04:28   I was like, "Screw it, all in.

01:04:29   Let's just see what device-to-device does."

01:04:31   And sure enough, the device-to-device transfer, after it got to the new phone, at a very arbitrary

01:04:36   seeming time, it woke up and was like, "Oh, you have an Apple Watch.

01:04:39   Do you want to transfer that to me?

01:04:41   Yes, yes I do.

01:04:43   And it worked pretty well.

01:04:46   Like I don't think there were any major issues there either.

01:04:48   So I am really, really surprised

01:04:51   at how well device-to-device transfer worked.

01:04:53   I will say that you really do need to expect that,

01:04:56   A, you're gonna lose both of your phones

01:04:59   for a solid one to three hours,

01:05:01   and B, I watched this happen three different times.

01:05:03   I watched it with mine, with Aaron's,

01:05:05   and then with some friends of ours,

01:05:07   They actually came over and the wife and the family did her phone while they were at our

01:05:11   house.

01:05:12   And for her, it was the same story.

01:05:14   It will read somewhere between three and infinity hours to complete, like, "Oh, you'll be done

01:05:19   in infinity."

01:05:20   But if you have faith for all three of us, whatever the estimate was, it ended up being

01:05:25   more time than actually was needed, which was really refreshing.

01:05:29   So I completely agree with John of last week and John of moments ago.

01:05:34   Device to device is the way to do it.

01:05:36   With all of that said, Marco, I would like to hear your story and then we can start talking

01:05:39   about the devices.

01:05:40   >> Marco: I actually was pretty close to yours, Casey.

01:05:45   So I did device-to-device, not involving iCloud, just device-to-device, transfer everything,

01:05:50   including all the passwords and everything.

01:05:52   And it got pretty much everything.

01:05:54   The only things that didn't work correctly were -- and the eSIM transferred happened

01:05:59   just fine.

01:06:00   This was on AT&T.

01:06:01   I don't know if this matters.

01:06:03   I was doing it on Saturday instead of on Friday,

01:06:06   because that's my island situation,

01:06:08   means I get everything one day late.

01:06:09   So maybe things were less overloaded then.

01:06:13   But everything was fine, basically, with two exceptions.

01:06:17   I had to manually put in my email account again,

01:06:21   because for a while, Fastmail was offering

01:06:24   configuration profiles to set up your email account.

01:06:28   - Yeah, I had a configuration profile,

01:06:29   and that did not come with me.

01:06:30   I forgot about that, that's a good point.

01:06:32   And I think profiles aren't transferred,

01:06:35   intentionally I think.

01:06:37   So anyway, so-- - I forgot about that.

01:06:38   - So I did it to reset up my email,

01:06:40   and I'm like, you know what, forget it,

01:06:41   I'm just gonna do the old single app password method,

01:06:44   which is what, their website now offers,

01:06:47   I think, only that, I think they stopped offering--

01:06:50   - No, no, no, they still do the configuration profile,

01:06:53   but the way you do it is by going and generating

01:06:56   a single site or single app password,

01:06:59   and then if I recall correctly,

01:07:00   it's at the bottom of the page,

01:07:01   They're like, oh, you can just do a profile too.

01:07:03   You have to go through the steps of creating the password

01:07:05   in order to get to that point,

01:07:07   which I'm not sure, maybe this is Fastmail's one flaw.

01:07:10   I don't know why that's the way they do it.

01:07:11   When I set it up originally,

01:07:12   when I first joined Fastmail just a few months ago,

01:07:14   that is not how I remember it happening,

01:07:16   but as we've established many times on the show,

01:07:18   my memory is garbage, so who knows?

01:07:20   - Yeah, well anyway, I didn't do,

01:07:21   so anyway, I set it up just with single app password

01:07:23   and regular custom IMAP setup and everything,

01:07:26   and it was fine.

01:07:27   When my phone did remind me

01:07:29   at the arbitrary time afterwards,

01:07:31   hey, you wanna transfer your watch over?

01:07:32   I was a little concerned because my phone manages

01:07:35   two watches, mine and my son's through family setup.

01:07:38   - Oh, good thing.

01:07:40   - And family setup, it's one of those things,

01:07:42   you know, like a lot of things that involve the watch,

01:07:45   it's one of those things that seems

01:07:47   kinda half-baked and fragile,

01:07:48   and I don't really wanna mess with it more than I have to.

01:07:51   But I thought, you know what,

01:07:53   we'll do it for the show, let's see what it actually does.

01:07:56   And it transferred his correctly,

01:08:00   But in the middle of transferring mine,

01:08:02   iOS said, "Hey, we had this really important update

01:08:06   "for the iPhone 14 that fixes activation issues,

01:08:09   "the messages and stuff.

01:08:10   "You really should install this right now."

01:08:12   So I said, "Okay."

01:08:13   Forgetting that the washer's in the middle of the transfer.

01:08:15   - Yeah, I saw that notification a lot too

01:08:17   during both of my setups, and I was like,

01:08:19   "Not today, Satan."

01:08:20   There's no way I'm touching that.

01:08:23   'Cause I just knew this is not the time to,

01:08:25   I knew what the update was about.

01:08:26   I had seen the bug reports, and I understood

01:08:29   for some people, like they couldn't get activated

01:08:30   and they definitely needed to do that,

01:08:31   but I know you want me to update it,

01:08:34   but I need to get everything settled

01:08:35   before I even think about touching that.

01:08:37   - Well, I touched it and it broke my watch setup

01:08:40   and I had to, I ended up in the state

01:08:43   that we've seen before and then we've heard

01:08:44   other people report where the watch thinks nothing is wrong,

01:08:48   but no phone thinks it's paired to the watch.

01:08:51   Neither the old one nor the new one

01:08:52   think it has the watch paired.

01:08:53   - I've been in that state many times with my wife's watch

01:08:56   and I don't understand it and it is terrible.

01:08:59   - Yeah, and as far as I can tell,

01:09:00   the only way to get out of the situation

01:09:01   is to, on the watch, go to, you know,

01:09:03   set in general, reset, erase the whole watch from it.

01:09:05   - Which feels totally wrong,

01:09:07   especially for someone like me

01:09:08   who I don't actually own a watch.

01:09:09   The only time I ever interact with it

01:09:10   is when I'm trying to get it set up for my wife

01:09:12   and she's annoyed that it's taking so long.

01:09:14   So it's not a good experience. - Exactly, exactly.

01:09:16   So I went through that and I had to, you know,

01:09:18   reset my whole watch up,

01:09:20   which is a big pain in the butt.

01:09:21   Not as big of a pain in the butt

01:09:22   as trying to get all your slacks back in order,

01:09:24   but it is still a pain in the butt.

01:09:25   And so eventually I got that working

01:09:28   and everything else went fine.

01:09:29   So overall it was only that weird watch hiccup.

01:09:32   Everything else went perfectly.

01:09:33   All of my stuff did transfer with all the passwords

01:09:36   and logins and everything including Slack,

01:09:37   which for some reason never does.

01:09:39   But it included it this time.

01:09:41   So I was very pleased with the device to device transfer.

01:09:44   It worked with the one exception of the weird watch hiccup,

01:09:47   which I guess was partly my fault

01:09:49   for accepting the software update.

01:09:51   Other than that, it was great.

01:09:53   - Can I just post an image?

01:09:55   I know we're going to talk about our experience with this phone, but just one thing, one thing

01:09:58   that we don't have a bullet item for that I think is worth me mentioning here because

01:10:02   I did not expect it.

01:10:04   Take a look at this image I just put in the chat.

01:10:06   Yeah.

01:10:07   Okay, it's a status bar, 1241, you have full Wi-Fi, full bars, and you know, 80% battery.

01:10:14   So this was like maybe my second or third day of using my new phone.

01:10:19   And I thought something about my phone was broken, because I, there was just something

01:10:24   I couldn't get again. It was just a mental block. This is 1241 as a time in the status bar. That's 1241 a.m

01:10:31   Look at my battery level

01:10:34   I woke up in the morning and unplugged my phone from my nightstand charger

01:10:38   and I use my phone all day like I normally do nothing weird about this particular day and

01:10:43   I went from waking up in the morning at like 7 a.m.

01:10:48   To 12 41 a.m. The next day and I'm at like 80% charge. Oh, oh

01:10:55   I thought you would put it on the charger for a while and it was doing that optimized charging thing

01:10:59   No, this is just me using my phone

01:11:01   Okay

01:11:01   And the reason I was broken for the first few days that was using my phone every time I looked at my phone

01:11:05   The battery meter was full and like, huh? Isn't that great to have a fresh battery?

01:11:09   You know, you got a 12 probe the batteries probably crappy now

01:11:11   I got a nice fresh battery in this 14 Pro and everyone's saying the 14 Pro battery life sucks, right? Yeah same

01:11:17   Yeah, I thought maybe like I know that there was this big controversy

01:11:21   We're like putting the percentage in the thing and having not having a little like color fill the thing

01:11:25   The color was always 100% full but then the number would say, you know

01:11:28   62 but the the thing would like Obama I don't have the number I'm like is my status bar broken

01:11:33   Why does my phone always show full charge and then on this day? Why was I but 1241?

01:11:39   I don't know. I was probably watching finishing watching a car rebuilding YouTube video before going to bed ill-advisedly, right?

01:11:45   And I looked at my battery, I'm like,

01:11:46   okay, this is ridiculous.

01:11:48   How do I have 80% battery at 12.41 a.m.

01:11:52   after waking up at seven and using my phone

01:11:54   like I normally do?

01:11:55   How is that even happening?

01:11:56   Who knows the answer?

01:11:57   - What are you doing on your phone?

01:11:58   - Nothing apparently. - What are you not doing?

01:12:00   Yeah, like you're probably not running Instagram,

01:12:02   definitely not running TikTok.

01:12:03   - I wasn't using my phone any differently

01:12:06   than I normally do in terms of which apps I use.

01:12:08   Look at the percentage, it's like YouTube, Twitter,

01:12:10   it's like what I do with my phone, messages, whatever.

01:12:13   What's the answer?

01:12:14   What am I not remembering here?

01:12:16   - Do you have it on like a MagSafe charger

01:12:17   somewhere throughout the day?

01:12:18   - That's right, my MagSafe car charger.

01:12:21   - Mm, there we go. - I do a lot of driving

01:12:23   around in my car, there's not anything different

01:12:25   than I normally do, driving to and from school,

01:12:28   going to the supermarket, like just normal daily errands.

01:12:32   The difference is now every time I got in the car

01:12:35   and just smacked my phone with that magnet, it was charging.

01:12:39   It would never go down, it would be 100% all day long

01:12:43   'cause my day is just constantly broken up

01:12:44   by driving around and doing the normal sort of like errands

01:12:47   and stuff and every time I was in the car,

01:12:49   I was on the MagSafe and the trips were long enough

01:12:51   to push it back to 100%.

01:12:53   This totally surprised me.

01:12:55   This has nothing to do with the phone obviously,

01:12:56   it has everything to do with hey,

01:12:58   if you have a car and your phone has MagSafe,

01:13:00   consider getting a MagSafe charger

01:13:02   that plugs into the USB port in your car,

01:13:05   it may totally change your perception

01:13:08   of your phone's battery life if your day,

01:13:10   like mine, involves driving around a lot.

01:13:12   I did not even think about that.

01:13:13   That's a good point because my preliminary experience,

01:13:16   and I'm jumping ahead a little bit,

01:13:18   but my preliminary experience is the battery,

01:13:20   I don't feel like the battery is as good as my 13 Pro.

01:13:23   Like I feel, this is very unscientific,

01:13:26   very, very unscientific,

01:13:27   but I feel like I am not doing as well,

01:13:30   but I've only had the phone since Friday.

01:13:32   We're recording on a Wednesday.

01:13:34   I don't know how much of the like

01:13:35   processing happens on battery.

01:13:37   I don't know how bad the always on display is.

01:13:39   I also have the haptic keyboard,

01:13:42   I had the haptic keyboard on for most of the last few days.

01:13:46   Maybe that's causing, not problems, but causing a drain.

01:13:48   I don't know, but my experience--

01:13:49   - It's causing problems.

01:13:51   - Well, I don't, I would not say

01:13:54   that the battery has impressed me so far.

01:13:56   Marco, what has your experience been?

01:13:58   - I'm like you, I'm still on the point

01:14:01   where I'm assuming that there is a software bug

01:14:03   or some kind of runaway process

01:14:05   because my battery life has been pretty mediocre

01:14:08   and on the 13 Pro, it was pretty good most of the time.

01:14:12   So I'm blaming this on, you know,

01:14:14   iOS 16 slash new phone setup, you know,

01:14:17   who does kind of, you know, background processes,

01:14:20   you know, spotlight indexing,

01:14:22   whatever stuff is going on on a new installation.

01:14:25   - Indexing your mail, 'cause they didn't redo

01:14:27   how mail indexes stuff.

01:14:28   - They did, yeah.

01:14:29   So it's, my battery life is poor,

01:14:32   but it seems like it's that type of poor,

01:14:34   not this phone is mediocre kind of poor.

01:14:37   So I'm willing to give that a little while.

01:14:40   One thing, while we're on the topic of the always-on screen,

01:14:43   what do you think about it so far?

01:14:45   - I don't have a strong opinion about it,

01:14:49   to be honest with you.

01:14:51   I think if I have an opinion I slightly lean toward,

01:14:54   I don't think I wanna stick with it.

01:14:57   I am sticking with it for now,

01:14:58   but I don't think it affords me a whole lot,

01:15:03   because every time I look at my phone,

01:15:05   generally speaking, my notifications,

01:15:07   There are fewer on screen, which is by design, with iOS 16, which aesthetically I think is

01:15:11   an improvement.

01:15:12   But beyond that, they're in the, I forget the term for it, but they're in the like don't

01:15:16   show details mode.

01:15:18   And I think what I kind of expected, and I understand why it's not this way, but I kind

01:15:23   of expected that let's say I have my phone on my desk and I have a, what is it, a 12

01:15:28   south elevation dock or something like that.

01:15:30   It's a very, very old dock, but it points the phone up at my face, right?

01:15:34   You know what I'm saying?

01:15:35   flat on the desktop, it's pointed basically at me.

01:15:38   And I think I had expected that with the Always On Display,

01:15:41   if I looked down at the phone,

01:15:42   it would see I'm giving it attention,

01:15:44   it would scan my face, and then it would show me

01:15:47   the contents of all these notifications

01:15:49   that are on my screen.

01:15:50   And it doesn't do that, it doesn't just sit there

01:15:51   looking to see if you're looking at it.

01:15:53   It waits until you touch it.

01:15:55   And I don't love that.

01:15:58   Like I understand why, 'cause it would be

01:15:59   a huge battery drain, I'm sure,

01:16:01   to just sit there pinging away at the Face ID sensor,

01:16:03   but it feels kind of, it's not what I expect.

01:16:07   It's not what I expect at all.

01:16:08   And I'm gonna stick with it for another week or two,

01:16:10   but I think I might end up turning the Always On off.

01:16:13   What do you think?

01:16:14   - Here's what I did on the first day with Always On.

01:16:16   So I had already set up IO 16 lock screens on my old phone,

01:16:21   so I played with them a little bit,

01:16:22   but of course it changes the equation a little bit

01:16:25   for Always On because now you also have a new way

01:16:27   to see your lock screen, which is slightly dimmed,

01:16:30   and selecting every widget may change

01:16:32   based on what you might want to see

01:16:34   on the slightly dim thing or whatever.

01:16:36   I played with that.

01:16:37   I did, you know, I made a couple of different setups

01:16:40   that I thought would be good with Always On.

01:16:43   The first problem I encountered was that the lock screens

01:16:46   I had made for iOS 16 and my 12 Pro

01:16:48   is pictures of my family,

01:16:50   which I think maybe we talked about it in the last show.

01:16:53   I don't have any photos that fit a long skinny lock screen.

01:16:56   So I had to like use, you know, AI extensions of backgrounds

01:16:59   to get the right arrangement.

01:17:01   But anyway, it's pictures of my family.

01:17:02   And the cool feature of iOS 16 is you can make it

01:17:06   so the lock screen has several pictures

01:17:08   and rotates through them,

01:17:09   so you don't have to pick just one.

01:17:10   So I just put everything on my family.

01:17:11   That was nice.

01:17:12   The problem with that is, and I said last week,

01:17:16   I keep thinking I'm getting a call, a telephone call.

01:17:19   Always on screen exacerbates that.

01:17:21   Because when my phone's sitting on a surface

01:17:23   and it's always on and I glance at it

01:17:25   and I see a picture of my wife, I'm like,

01:17:26   oh, my wife's calling.

01:17:27   I must not have heard the phone vibrate.

01:17:28   No, my wife's not calling.

01:17:30   she's just the lock screen and it's always on, right?

01:17:33   I expect my phone to be dark, total black screen

01:17:38   when it's sitting on the table next to me

01:17:39   and only light up when a phone is in,

01:17:41   a call is incoming, right?

01:17:42   I did put a bunch of other stuff there to see

01:17:46   if there was utility that I could extract

01:17:48   from having a screen that was always on.

01:17:50   And I don't think I ever,

01:17:53   like maybe it's a habit I needed to get into,

01:17:55   like, oh, maybe I don't glance at it

01:17:57   'cause I don't expect there to be anything in there

01:17:58   and now that there is, I'll glance at it

01:17:59   maybe when third parties have better widgets on the lock screen it'll do, but for now I'm

01:18:03   not getting a lot of utility out of it.

01:18:05   This is day one with the Tomb.

01:18:06   I'm like, "I just got to give it a little bit of time."

01:18:08   So when I went to bed on day one, I put my phone in my nightstand as I always do.

01:18:13   I plugged it in because I charge with the cable at night, and then I realized, "Wait

01:18:17   a second.

01:18:18   That screen's not going to go off."

01:18:22   And yes, I could turn my phone over with the screen down, but sometimes you wake up in

01:18:25   the night and you want to look at something or like, I don't know.

01:18:29   That was the last straw for me.

01:18:31   I lasted less than 24 hours with the always on screen.

01:18:34   I said, no, I can't have,

01:18:36   even just emitting the light into the room.

01:18:37   And it's like, it's gonna be always on,

01:18:39   but I don't want the light.

01:18:40   And I put it facing down.

01:18:42   Now you got light leaking out of the little edges.

01:18:44   And it's like, well, what's the,

01:18:45   and if you're gonna face it down,

01:18:46   what's the point of it being always on anyway?

01:18:48   And I said, I can't, I'm not ready for this.

01:18:50   I can't do it.

01:18:51   I don't, it's not, you know, again,

01:18:53   I didn't give it a good chance,

01:18:54   which was less than 24 hours, but the bedside stand,

01:18:57   I cannot have my screen on during that time.

01:18:59   If they had a special feature for Always On

01:19:01   that said Always On except when you're sleeping,

01:19:02   maybe I would have left it on.

01:19:04   - They do. - But I turned it off

01:19:05   and I haven't looked back.

01:19:05   And I don't miss it, right?

01:19:07   I had, you know, I don't think I gave it a good chance,

01:19:10   but I would much rather have,

01:19:12   not that I really needed it apparently,

01:19:14   but I would much rather have the tiny amount

01:19:15   of additional battery life that I may be getting

01:19:17   from not having the Always On screen

01:19:19   than whatever utility I could extract

01:19:22   from having that screen.

01:19:23   So now I'm back to the old way and I like it better.

01:19:26   - So they do have that mode

01:19:27   where it automatically goes all the way off

01:19:29   when you're sleeping,

01:19:30   and that is when you have a sleep focus.

01:19:32   - I do not have a sleep focus.

01:19:33   - Or a sleep mode or whatever it is.

01:19:34   - I intentionally don't have a sleep focus,

01:19:36   or I don't use focus modes, I don't have a sleep thing,

01:19:38   I don't do sleep tracking, and that's all intentional,

01:19:40   'cause I don't, I try that stuff and I don't,

01:19:42   I know a lot of people prefer to have their phone

01:19:44   operate differently during different scenarios like this,

01:19:46   but I found that I don't prefer that, so.

01:19:49   - I might be misspeaking, I don't know if it's a sleep focus

01:19:51   or a sleep mode, but maybe it's sleep mode.

01:19:55   I think it predates the focus,

01:19:57   But one way or another, when your phone is of the opinion

01:19:59   that you are sleeping and it enters whatever sleep mode

01:20:02   you're supposed to be in,

01:20:03   then it will turn the screen all the way off.

01:20:05   - Yeah, I mean, 'cause I plugged it in,

01:20:07   put it on my nightstand and just went to try to go to sleep,

01:20:09   and then it was just like shining at me.

01:20:11   Maybe if I had given it 15 more minutes,

01:20:13   it would have turned off,

01:20:14   but I never gave it that chance.

01:20:15   I'm like, that's it.

01:20:16   'Cause I was already on the edge.

01:20:17   I was already on the edge of saying,

01:20:18   maybe I just wanna turn this off,

01:20:20   but that was just the last straw.

01:20:21   And I'm like, nope, you will not be let up on my nightstand.

01:20:24   - Also, the screen will turn itself all the way off

01:20:26   when the phone is upside down.

01:20:28   - Yeah, anyway, like I said, if you're gonna do that anyway,

01:20:30   like then what's the point?

01:20:31   Like why have, the always on screen

01:20:32   is not providing any value,

01:20:33   and I don't want it to be facing down,

01:20:34   I don't want it to be facing up.

01:20:36   I want to be able to tap it and make it come awake

01:20:38   and maybe like scratch my little head over

01:20:40   to its face ID, it's me,

01:20:41   so I can see where that notification is from.

01:20:43   These are all like habits built from,

01:20:45   I guess from the iPhone 10 on, right?

01:20:47   The fact that the screen does wake up when you touch it,

01:20:49   the face ID will scan you, you know,

01:20:51   where it is on my nightstand, it's just,

01:20:53   those habits are still pretty well ingrained,

01:20:55   so I'm gonna just grab the little sliver of battery life

01:20:58   until some other reason compels me to enable that feature.

01:21:02   - All right, Marco, I do wanna go back to transfer stuff

01:21:04   for a second, but before we do,

01:21:05   why don't we finish our thoughts about the Always On Display.

01:21:07   - So first of all, to try to solve the nightstand issue,

01:21:12   I didn't know that the sleep,

01:21:13   I haven't quite nailed down like when the phone

01:21:16   is in like sleep mode for me,

01:21:18   'cause the only two focus modes I have

01:21:21   are nothing and do not disturb.

01:21:24   and I have auto do not disturb during a set hour range

01:21:27   at night when I'm sleeping.

01:21:28   And so what I did for that,

01:21:31   and maybe I should be doing this

01:21:32   with a sleep focus instead,

01:21:34   but the way I set that up before knowing this

01:21:37   two seconds ago was I just changed my lock screen

01:21:41   for doing a disturb to have a black solid background.

01:21:44   And then that way I could still see--

01:21:47   - You could probably also do this for shortcuts too.

01:21:50   Isn't there a shortcut for when you're in

01:21:52   do not disturb mode, run the shortcut,

01:21:54   and the shortcut could, maybe the shortcut

01:21:55   can even turn off the always on display.

01:21:57   Like there's probably a lot of stuff you can do with shortcuts.

01:21:58   - Yeah, there is.

01:21:59   Yeah, so maybe.

01:22:00   But yeah, so I just had like a separate screen

01:22:03   that's just solid black and I reduced the number of widgets

01:22:05   down to basically nothing except my alarm.

01:22:09   And that's it, and it's fine.

01:22:11   But you know, I never knew, like I haven't figured out

01:22:14   like when the screen is actually on.

01:22:15   Like I woke up in the middle of the night last night

01:22:17   and I wanted to see what time it was

01:22:19   and the screen was off.

01:22:20   so I had to tap it to wake it up to see the time.

01:22:23   So I thought that was kind of, anyway,

01:22:24   maybe the phone has some concept of when I'm asleep

01:22:27   that I didn't set up.

01:22:28   Anyway, I'll look into that.

01:22:30   But going back to the OS on screen itself,

01:22:32   I am not usually a leave the phone on the table

01:22:37   kind of person.

01:22:38   Like usually the phone's in my pocket

01:22:40   and I take it out when I'm using it,

01:22:42   in which case it's on.

01:22:43   One area that I have found it to be useful is

01:22:47   when I'm showering, I prop the phone up on a shelf

01:22:50   to play podcasts and I'm able now to see what time it is.

01:22:54   So if I like have to be somewhere

01:22:56   and I'm taking a quick shower before I go there,

01:22:58   I now have a clock that I can see the whole time,

01:23:02   not just within a minute or two of when I last tapped it.

01:23:05   So that's nice. - You must have

01:23:06   the world's quietest shower.

01:23:07   I cannot imagine even at max volume

01:23:10   being able to hear and understand a podcast

01:23:12   while in the shower with a phone

01:23:13   that is not in the shower with me.

01:23:15   - No, it's in the shower.

01:23:17   It's an outdoor shower, it's a whole thing.

01:23:18   - All right, my new recommendation is

01:23:19   don't bring your phone in the shower with you.

01:23:21   Get a Sonos Roam.

01:23:22   - No, the phone speaker,

01:23:25   now that the phones are pretty waterproof,

01:23:27   as long as you don't get water in the speaker,

01:23:28   which makes it sound like crap

01:23:30   and very muffled for a little while.

01:23:31   - You have it propped up and in a water rich environment,

01:23:33   is this gonna like slip and fall into the floor

01:23:35   of your shower and shatter?

01:23:36   - No, it's far enough away from the water spray

01:23:38   that it doesn't.

01:23:40   - I'm telling you, a Sonos Roam is expensive,

01:23:42   although I often have discounts,

01:23:43   so you should talk to me about that, but anyway,

01:23:46   it has better sound quality than an iPhone,

01:23:47   you should at least appreciate that.

01:23:49   - It's not that much better, anyway.

01:23:51   - The Sonos Roam is not better than the iPhone's

01:23:53   built in speaker.

01:23:54   - Wait, which is the little Toblerone bar,

01:23:55   is that the Roam?

01:23:56   - Yes, that's the Roam.

01:23:57   - No, it's not that much better, no.

01:23:58   - It is way better than the iPhone speaker.

01:24:00   - Modern iPhone speakers are actually,

01:24:02   for podcasts they're great, for music they're okay.

01:24:05   In the shower context it's fine.

01:24:08   I used to use this whole category of cheap

01:24:10   Bluetooth waterproof speakers that you,

01:24:13   some of them had a suction cup you could put

01:24:14   on the wall in the shower.

01:24:15   - Sonos Roam is not cheap though.

01:24:16   - I know, I know.

01:24:17   Yeah, nothing by Sonos is cheap.

01:24:18   But anyway, all of that, the whole category

01:24:22   of inexpensive, waterproof Bluetooth speakers,

01:24:25   that whole category now is made irrelevant

01:24:28   by modern iPhones being water resistant

01:24:30   and having pretty decent speakers in them.

01:24:31   - So weird with your audio things,

01:24:33   that you insist on these super expensive headphones,

01:24:35   but the way you listen to podcasts

01:24:37   is through the phone's built-in speakers.

01:24:39   - Yeah, I'm Team John on this one.

01:24:41   - Boggles my mind.

01:24:42   - A lot of people do it.

01:24:43   Anyway, so, back to the old sunscreen,

01:24:46   that's how we got here.

01:24:47   (laughs)

01:24:49   The biggest problem I have with the always on screen

01:24:52   is that you have, as Keith was saying,

01:24:55   it looks like it's interactive.

01:24:57   And so when I try to interact with it, I can't yet.

01:25:00   I have to tap it first to wake it up

01:25:01   or lift it in such a way that makes it wake up.

01:25:04   And so, so often I need to tap it and just wait.

01:25:08   And I wait for it to animate in and it's very frustrating.

01:25:11   And I don't know what the solution to that is

01:25:16   that's actually doable.

01:25:17   I see it's a hard problem,

01:25:21   and I'm not sure how to solve it.

01:25:23   - Don't you think that's a policy choice, though?

01:25:24   I don't think there's a tech thing stopping them

01:25:26   from having it be responsive immediately,

01:25:29   because the phone is running, the screen is on,

01:25:31   it's obviously sensitive to your touches,

01:25:33   they've just chosen to say the first,

01:25:35   I mean, maybe that's to avoid accidental input

01:25:38   or similar type of stuff,

01:25:39   because you think your phone is in the basically

01:25:41   the off-lock position, you don't want a clumsy grab

01:25:45   to start an interaction, but I don't think there's any tech barrier to them implementing

01:25:50   that UI policy, which is first touch counts, it goes through, it lets you interact with

01:25:54   it.

01:25:55   - Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are reasons like that that, you know, I'm sure they considered

01:26:00   it, maybe tested it, figured out it wasn't worth it.

01:26:03   - Or maybe they're cranking down the frequency of the touch, you know, they crank down the

01:26:07   screen refresh to be one hertz, maybe the touch sensitivity is down to one hertz too,

01:26:11   to also save battery, that could be a technical barrier.

01:26:14   Or maybe, that would be kind of unresponsive

01:26:16   when you tap the screen to wake it up.

01:26:16   Maybe it's like 10 hertz.

01:26:18   That's still way less than the usual rate of 60 or 120.

01:26:21   - Is it like 240?

01:26:23   No, that's on the iPad.

01:26:24   The iPad does double-- - That's the pencil refresh.

01:26:25   - Yeah, right. - Yeah, anyway.

01:26:27   So yeah, that part is weird to me.

01:26:30   I also found, I left it on 16.0 for the first couple days,

01:26:34   and now I'm on a 16.1 beta.

01:26:37   On 16.0, it was very buggy.

01:26:41   I had tons of always onscreen bugs

01:26:42   where it wouldn't wake up or it would wake up

01:26:46   and all the notifications would be square

01:26:47   and they would pop in as round.

01:26:49   And there are tons of rendering problems.

01:26:51   It was super buggy in 16.0,

01:26:53   but 16.1 beta seems to be better in that respect.

01:26:57   So I'm guessing that was just things coming in pretty hot

01:26:59   for the release of the phones.

01:27:01   But yeah, so overall, I like lock screen widgets.

01:27:04   I like having an always on clock on the phone.

01:27:08   Everything else about the always on screen,

01:27:10   it is kind of a mixed bag.

01:27:12   I haven't noticed particular battery problems with it.

01:27:14   We'll see.

01:27:15   I do wish there was an option to have either

01:27:20   a black background, or at least let me set

01:27:22   a different wallpaper for locked mode than for active mode,

01:27:27   because that would solve your wife waking up the phone

01:27:29   with, or your wife's looking like a phone call problem.

01:27:31   - Exactly, and also the light emitting, like that.

01:27:34   I mean, that's basically how most Android phones,

01:27:36   especially the initial batch of them many years ago,

01:27:38   did their always-on screen to save battery life,

01:27:40   is that they basically force you to have an all black screen

01:27:43   with some dim letters.

01:27:44   And that's what we thought Apple was gonna do.

01:27:46   We're kind of surprised.

01:27:46   - Right, we talked about that.

01:27:48   - Yeah, when they said, no, it's gonna be just like

01:27:50   literally your full image.

01:27:51   Like it's weird that they don't even give you the option

01:27:54   to differentiate that.

01:27:55   Kind of the same way it's weird that they pair,

01:27:57   that you have to assign these pairs of like lock screen

01:27:59   and a home screen.

01:28:01   'Cause I always want my home screen to be 100% black,

01:28:03   but every time I make a new lock screen,

01:28:05   I have to respecify that over and over again.

01:28:08   Just tedious.

01:28:09   I don't just want the black background

01:28:12   when I'm doing disturb or sleep mode.

01:28:14   I want the black background always when it is locked

01:28:17   and then when I wake it up,

01:28:18   I want it to be my nice weather face for my OS 16.

01:28:21   Like that I want.

01:28:23   And that would also help distinguish when it's not awake.

01:28:28   So that can help tell me like,

01:28:30   I can't touch this in this mode.

01:28:32   If touching this will do nothing.

01:28:33   - Yeah, 'cause it doesn't look like a screen

01:28:36   that's like, oh my iPhone is on, I interact with it.

01:28:37   it looks like a lock screen, it looks like a sort of idle,

01:28:40   you know, I'm just now a dumb clock with some widgets on it.

01:28:43   - Yeah, it's funny, literally one second ago,

01:28:45   it turned 9.30 p.m. and my screen just changed

01:28:49   to my automatic do not disturb mode,

01:28:51   and so it just turned to all black,

01:28:53   right as we were talking about that,

01:28:54   and it looks so much better in the all black mode

01:28:58   when it's sitting there on my desk, you know, locked.

01:29:00   It looks so much better.

01:29:01   So yeah, I mean, maybe I'll just give up

01:29:04   and just not have a lock screen wallpaper anymore

01:29:07   and just have it always be black and see if that works.

01:29:09   But I do love that weather lock screen in Iowa 16

01:29:14   when the phone is active in my hand, I love that.

01:29:17   So maybe, I don't know, I'll play with it.

01:29:19   But that's the one thing, yeah, it not being interactive

01:29:22   and it having to only be your wallpaper

01:29:25   and not having like a separate solid color black mode

01:29:29   or something like that, those are my wish list items.

01:29:32   and I don't know how they can solve the interactive part,

01:29:35   but I do wish they would solve the solid color preference.

01:29:39   - To go back very quickly to the transfer process,

01:29:42   I forgot to mention earlier,

01:29:43   when the transfer was happening,

01:29:45   and this happened for both Aaron and myself,

01:29:48   and even for a few hours after the transfer,

01:29:52   I found that both of us were returning back

01:29:54   to a terrible, terrible time from years ago.

01:29:58   We were missing text messages.

01:30:00   - Oh no!

01:30:01   - Yes, but it gets worse.

01:30:04   I can't blame this on Android phones this time.

01:30:07   We were missing iMessages.

01:30:09   We were activated.

01:30:11   We could send iMessages back and forth to each other,

01:30:15   but we are in a couple of group chats together,

01:30:17   and one of us would miss an hour or two or three

01:30:21   worth of time in the group chats.

01:30:23   This seems, knock on wood, to have righted itself.

01:30:26   I immediately did the 16.0.1 upgrade,

01:30:30   or whatever that update was

01:30:31   you guys were talking about earlier, where they were like, "Oh my gosh, you won't be

01:30:33   able to iMessage unless you put this update in yesterday. We did that on both the phones."

01:30:38   I don't know what happened, and I think it's resolved itself, but even on Saturday, this

01:30:42   is almost a full 24 hours. Actually, I think it was a full 24 hours after we had gotten

01:30:47   our phones. Even then, I was missing a bunch of messages from a group chat, an iMessage-only

01:30:52   group chat. It hasn't happened since, I think, Saturday morning for me, but it has happened.

01:30:58   That was really weird and very unusual and I did not like it.

01:31:02   Also while I'm talking, one other thing I meant to bring up earlier and then I think

01:31:04   we can finally move on and talk about the Dynamic Island.

01:31:07   In-store pickup when you live in a not humongously populated area.

01:31:11   Oh my gosh, it was so great.

01:31:13   I ended up getting, if you recall my tale of woe where I ordered an extra phone by accident

01:31:19   for shipping.

01:31:20   Well anyways, I ordered what I believe to be our two true phones, one per person, and

01:31:25   I did that for an $8.45 in-store pickup.

01:31:28   I showed up at like 8.30 thinking, "Oh, it's going to be a zoo and they're going to kick

01:31:31   me out and say, 'Wait around for 15 minutes.'"

01:31:34   At the Apple store near me, they could not have cared less that I was there early.

01:31:40   Didn't even ask me what time it was for.

01:31:41   In fact, I'm pretty sure I had overheard somebody say to a fellow employee, "We don't care what

01:31:47   time it is as long as it's for today."

01:31:49   So I hypothetically could have gotten a 3 p.m. pickup appointment, and I don't think

01:31:55   I would have been turned away at 8.30 in the morning.

01:31:57   But anyway, I was in and out in the span of like 20 minutes, and it was amazing.

01:32:03   And I had my iPhones in my hand before 9 o'clock in the morning.

01:32:06   And when, again, if you recall, where we live, we don't get UPS shipments until like 5, 6,

01:32:12   7 o'clock at night.

01:32:13   So I had an extra 12 hours worth of my phone that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

01:32:16   And for the first time possibly ever, maybe since like the 5S whenever I'd done the in-store

01:32:21   pickup line last, I was one of the first people to have my phone.

01:32:26   of all of my friends, even the many on the West Coast, getting their phones before me

01:32:31   and making me very jealous. I really recommend if you live in a regular place, trying the

01:32:38   in-store pickup. It worked super well. Now, if you're trying to go to like Fifth Avenue

01:32:41   or Covent Garden or whatever it is, I bet this experience would not be quite so pleasurable.

01:32:45   But if you live in a normal-sized place, I really, really recommend it.

01:32:49   I have one more setup thing as well. I totally forgot about this. Probably blocked it out.

01:32:53   After I had done the second setup after I wiped and did device to device transfer, there

01:32:59   were still a couple of clean up settings that I needed to do and test flights and stuff.

01:33:04   And the second time around, not the first time around, the first time around I did this

01:33:06   immediately but the second time around I had forgot until a little bit after I had started

01:33:11   doing setup, oh yeah I've got to rename this phone because for whatever reason Apple has

01:33:14   not yet cracked the algorithm of my phone naming scheme which is John's iPhone number

01:33:20   of iPhone.

01:33:21   So when I do it, when I do device to device transfer,

01:33:26   my new phone is called John's iPhone 12 Pro parentheses two.

01:33:31   Good job, Apple.

01:33:33   Excellent.

01:33:34   Use that machine learning.

01:33:36   But you know, so you go into settings, general, about,

01:33:39   and change it to John's iPhone 14 Pro.

01:33:42   And I did that and I was like, okay, fine.

01:33:44   But then as I was wandering around settings

01:33:46   and looking at other things, I noticed,

01:33:48   and also I was looking on the website or whatever,

01:33:50   My iCloud backup and my device list

01:33:53   and everything having to do with like the iCloud knowledge

01:33:56   of this device says, "John's iPhone 12 Pro,

01:33:59   12 Pro parentheses two," everywhere.

01:34:02   Says it on the website, says it on,

01:34:04   if you look at iCloud backup,

01:34:06   but you know, on my phone says 14 Pro, right?

01:34:09   When I pair my phone with my car,

01:34:10   it says, "John's iPhone 14 Pro,"

01:34:12   but every place else on Apple server-side

01:34:15   incarnation of this phone,

01:34:16   it says, "John's iPhone 12 Pro parentheses two."

01:34:19   And again, I tried to sit with it,

01:34:21   I'm like, ah, I'll probably fix this stuff

01:34:22   in an hour or two.

01:34:23   Eventually it didn't, I'm like, this cannot stand.

01:34:26   I can't have this.

01:34:28   I can't go to whatever the equivalent

01:34:30   of supportprofile.apple.com and see my devices listed,

01:34:33   'cause inevitably I'll get confused and say,

01:34:35   oh, John's iPhone 12 Pro, I should get rid of that,

01:34:38   it's not mine anymore, I transferred it to my son,

01:34:39   I should delete that device,

01:34:40   and I would end up deleting my actual phone.

01:34:43   It has to say 14 Pro and it wouldn't.

01:34:45   So there I am Googling again,

01:34:47   Finding desperate people on Apple support threads having exact same problem from three years ago. The only thing I could find you know a

01:34:54   lot of the people have like

01:34:57   You know suggestions for solutions

01:34:59   And then the thread ends and you never hear like there's never any conclusion to the thread of like well

01:35:03   Did you try that did it work the only thing I saw that someone said they did that worked

01:35:08   Can you guess what it is of course can you guess what it is restarting discovery D?

01:35:12   Restarting the phone no. I wish it was that easy of course. I did that already no

01:35:17   - Oh, signing out of iCloud.

01:35:18   - Oh no! - Oh God.

01:35:20   - Boo!

01:35:21   - So guess what I did?

01:35:23   On my newly set up second time around phone,

01:35:26   I had to sign out of iCloud.

01:35:28   - That's no fun at all.

01:35:29   - And then sign back in.

01:35:31   And we all know how painful that is.

01:35:33   - Oh yes.

01:35:34   - And it was just, it was just another like

01:35:36   three and a half hours of just getting everything in,

01:35:40   going to my preferred playlist and making it download,

01:35:42   waiting for messages to sync.

01:35:44   That long period of time when you launch messages

01:35:46   and everything is phone numbers

01:35:47   and your contacts still aren't there

01:35:49   and you're wondering if it's gonna work

01:35:50   and then an hour later, finally it springs into existence.

01:35:53   This is all because the phone,

01:35:56   oh, I even did the thing of like,

01:35:57   maybe it's because it did an iCloud backup

01:35:59   with the old name and I just need to do

01:36:00   a new iCloud backup with the new name.

01:36:01   I tried everything before I gave up

01:36:03   and signed out of iCloud,

01:36:04   but that's the only thing I did that worked.

01:36:06   I tried everything else, restarting the phone,

01:36:08   doing a new iCloud backup, changing the name again

01:36:12   and just everything I could think of,

01:36:14   everything I could find, nothing worked.

01:36:16   Apple's server-side incarnation.

01:36:17   Maybe if I had waited 48 hours or a week,

01:36:19   it would have eventually gotten a clue,

01:36:22   but I couldn't risk that

01:36:22   because I would have just forgot about it.

01:36:24   I had to sign out of iCloud and back in.

01:36:26   So I would suggest, my second suggestion is one,

01:36:28   use device-to-device transfer,

01:36:29   and two, immediately go to Settings General,

01:36:32   About, and change the name of your phone

01:36:33   to not be your old full name, parentheses, two.

01:36:37   (laughing)

01:36:40   - I'm so sorry, Jon.

01:36:40   All right, let's talk Dynamic Island.

01:36:43   For me, I like it-ish now, but I think I'm going to really like it in the future.

01:36:51   And I notice that, generally speaking, I don't think much of it.

01:36:54   When I'm watching full screen video, I don't think I like it because oftentimes I find it more obtrusive than the Notch,

01:37:01   or the Static Penantula, excuse me.

01:37:03   But there are the handful of occasions where I've been playing a podcast or listening to music or whatever,

01:37:10   and you start to get that live activity stuff on the sides of the normal dynamic island,

01:37:16   that is super cool. When you start doing multiple things at the same time, when you've got a timer

01:37:21   running and you're listening to overcast, holy cow, having this multitasking switcher at the

01:37:28   top of your screen is super duper cool and I am really loving that. And so hopefully this won't be

01:37:38   abused by third-party developers, and I don't think there's going to be a lot of opportunity

01:37:41   to abuse it, but my goodness, it is super duper cool when you've got multiple things

01:37:46   happening at once.

01:37:48   The only complaint I have is the same complaint everyone else has, which is I wish they reversed

01:37:53   touch and hold and tap.

01:37:55   So if you touch and hold, that's when you get this expanded widget thing, and when you

01:38:00   tap it just opens the app.

01:38:02   I totally get why they did that and why that's the default, but I hope if nothing else we

01:38:06   We could have a switch, which I know Apple's mostly allergic to, but have a switch to reverse

01:38:11   that, where if I tap, I get the little widget-y thing, so I can just quickly interact with

01:38:15   something.

01:38:16   And then if I touch and hold, that's when I open up the entire app.

01:38:19   Because it makes more sense to me, right?

01:38:20   Like a tap is a shorter gesture.

01:38:22   I want to spend less time with what I'm doing.

01:38:25   So I just want to tap, hit fast forward or rewind and overcast, and then tap again elsewhere

01:38:30   and go away.

01:38:32   In contrast, what I have to do is I have to tap and hold "Wait a Beat" and then I get

01:38:37   my little widget area or whatever and then I can tap "Wait a Beat".

01:38:41   I think I prefer it this way because what I end up doing is bouncing back and forth,

01:38:44   like for example bouncing back and forth from like a navigation to overcast or something.

01:38:51   And even when I'm just using it as a multitasking like bounce back and forth switcher, even

01:38:57   if that setting existed I think I would leave it as the default.

01:39:00   Interesting.

01:39:01   Okay, fair enough.

01:39:02   hear what you have to say about that in a second. But all in all, I think the

01:39:05   Dynamic Island today, where the only things that are really up there are like

01:39:09   media apps that kind of get it for free, it's cool, it's nice, whatever. But

01:39:15   I really, really think once you start getting like sports scores up there and

01:39:18   lift arrivals and DoorDash arrivals, then I really think it's gonna come into its

01:39:23   own and it's gonna be super duper cool. Marco, what are your thoughts and how do

01:39:27   you feel about the tap versus long press thing?

01:39:30   So I see what everyone's saying about that,

01:39:32   but I think Apple has it right

01:39:34   in terms of the precedent they've already set.

01:39:36   So if you look at the kind of things this replaces,

01:39:39   we used to have, I think it's gone now with this change,

01:39:43   but we used to have those little back buttons

01:39:46   on the upper left of the status bar

01:39:48   if you came from an app, if you came to an app

01:39:50   from another app. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:39:51   - And tapping that-- - It's not gone,

01:39:53   it's still there. - Oh, it is?

01:39:54   - It's not? - Really.

01:39:55   - Tapping that would go to that app.

01:39:56   Meanwhile, if you have some kind of control center widget,

01:40:01   say, usually a long press will expand it into a bigger blob,

01:40:06   whereas a tap will do that thing or go to that thing.

01:40:09   So I think the way they have it now fits with precedent

01:40:14   of other behaviors in iOS where tap means open

01:40:18   and long press means expand or go into in a different way.

01:40:23   So what it's mainly for, I think, is display, first of all,

01:40:28   but I think the interaction, I think it's mostly for

01:40:32   quick switching between the apps,

01:40:33   and that's what I see it as, and that's what it does,

01:40:36   that's what it's optimized for.

01:40:37   Now you could make a case, oh, maybe it should

01:40:39   open by default in the little expandy view

01:40:42   before it jumps over to the app,

01:40:44   but the way to do it now fits precedent.

01:40:46   And so far, I haven't done a lot of multitasking yet,

01:40:49   but like you, Casey, when it has happened

01:40:52   that I've had something running up there,

01:40:55   it really is delightful.

01:40:56   As for my actual app, audio apps get this thing for free.

01:41:02   I actually do, we're in the middle of a whole bunch

01:41:06   of family travel and events happening

01:41:09   and so I haven't had a chance to dive into the API yet.

01:41:11   But I'm thinking it might not be worth audio apps

01:41:15   making their own because if it would replace

01:41:18   the existing one, I think anything we make

01:41:21   would be worse because we don't have the ability

01:41:24   to update it as quickly as Apple does.

01:41:26   And so the cool thing to do with like little level meters

01:41:28   that are actually real finally for the first time anywhere

01:41:30   in iOS ever besides my app.

01:41:32   - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:33   - I can't, I don't think the API allows me to update

01:41:35   these things that quickly and send that data that quickly.

01:41:38   So I don't think I could do that if I made my own.

01:41:42   And I might be able to do other custom things here and there

01:41:45   that I might not be able to do with the control center API

01:41:48   that's there now, but I think it would be minimal.

01:41:50   So I'm probably not gonna make my own custom thing there.

01:41:52   And audio apps, I think, unless I'm wrong about

01:41:55   what we can and can't do,

01:41:57   I don't see audio apps doing a lot with that.

01:41:59   But I see a lot of other apps doing a lot with that.

01:42:03   And that is what I'm looking forward to.

01:42:06   And frankly, even if it's not well adopted by third parties,

01:42:09   which I think it will be, but even if it's not,

01:42:12   and even until it is, even just having Apple's built-in apps

01:42:16   having support for it is extremely useful.

01:42:19   and I find that to be very, very nice.

01:42:22   And I don't otherwise notice it that much

01:42:25   in my day-to-day use.

01:42:26   Like, I see if I have a face ID unlock or something,

01:42:30   it balloons out of there, and that's fun.

01:42:34   But otherwise, I really don't notice it,

01:42:36   which I think is a good thing.

01:42:37   - Yeah, and when it does do any sort of dancing,

01:42:40   like, that whole dynamic nature is super cool

01:42:43   and super well done, and I really do like it a lot.

01:42:46   But I really think it's gonna come into its own

01:42:48   in the future when third parties really can embrace it.

01:42:51   Jon, any thoughts?

01:42:52   - Yeah, so there's two things

01:42:56   that dynamic island brings to the table.

01:42:59   They're kind of combined when people talk about it,

01:43:01   but I think it's useful to separate them.

01:43:03   One is a lot of the things you guys already talked about.

01:43:06   There's more info and UI elements at the top of your screen

01:43:09   that are visible all the time, right?

01:43:11   And that is made possible by the fact

01:43:14   that the non-screen portion,

01:43:17   like the face ID thing in the camera,

01:43:19   is narrower than it has ever been.

01:43:22   The notch was getting narrower and getting, you know,

01:43:25   making more room for stuff in the ears,

01:43:27   but this little lozenge, even if it wasn't like lower down,

01:43:30   it's narrower still.

01:43:31   So there are more pixels available there.

01:43:34   And one of the things Apple did was they used those pixels

01:43:37   that are available there, not to re-expand the status bar

01:43:39   like it used to be when it used to be full width,

01:43:41   but instead to say,

01:43:42   I have a better idea for things that we can put

01:43:46   on the top of your phone that are always visible,

01:43:49   now that we have this room in the modern phone,

01:43:53   like in the post iPhone 10 era,

01:43:54   what can we put up there, right?

01:43:56   And their choice was you can put a little thing up there

01:43:58   that you can use to switch back and forth the apps,

01:44:00   you can put the little now playing thing,

01:44:02   you can allow third parties to do it.

01:44:04   Everyone seems to love that because the idea

01:44:07   of having more useful, like globally visible information

01:44:12   is a crowd pleaser.

01:44:13   Like there's a reason people like the fact

01:44:15   that you can put little icons in your menu bar on the Mac.

01:44:17   The menu bar is up there,

01:44:18   it's space that's gonna be used anyway.

01:44:20   People like to be able to stick stuff up there.

01:44:23   Now, they like to be able to stick stuff

01:44:24   in their choosing and rearrange it.

01:44:25   The iPhone's not there yet.

01:44:26   Maybe the iPad will get there someday

01:44:28   if it ever has a notch or if it ever has a lozenge,

01:44:31   although I doubt it will.

01:44:32   But like the idea of allowing you to see more stuff

01:44:37   and do more things without leaving the app that you're in.

01:44:41   Thumbs up, everybody loves it, right?

01:44:43   And they say, "Well, it's limited now,

01:44:46   "but it'll get even better with third parties," as you said.

01:44:48   There is a second aspect to the dynamic island is,

01:44:51   the way they've chosen to do that is to combine

01:44:56   a sort of fashion accessory to hide the fact

01:45:01   that they have a cutout on the screen by saying,

01:45:02   "Okay, we're gonna have more info there,

01:45:04   "but we're gonna make it look like that info

01:45:07   "is in this black lozenge thing that, by the way,

01:45:11   "hides the middle party."

01:45:12   You wonder why there's never anything displayed there.

01:45:14   It's not screen there, but you don't need to know that.

01:45:17   You won't even notice that.

01:45:18   You'll just think, hey, they just put stuff at the edges,

01:45:19   right, and there'll be the cute animations

01:45:21   and the wiggling and the blob will split

01:45:23   and the little ball will come off

01:45:24   and all that adorable stuff, right?

01:45:26   And that is nice and whimsical and fun

01:45:29   and these two things get put together.

01:45:31   People love seeing extra info

01:45:33   and people love the fun, whimsy, and animation

01:45:35   or whatever of the stuff there.

01:45:37   And I agree, all those things are good.

01:45:39   Where I have a problem with it is that

01:45:42   The other things that they do with this

01:45:45   that don't relate to showing more information

01:45:47   at the top of your phone,

01:45:49   like lean super heavily into the idea

01:45:53   of the hiding of the stuff there.

01:45:56   So for example, when you do face ID now,

01:45:58   and a thing that they used to do,

01:45:59   they used to just do an overlay on your screen

01:46:01   and you'd see like whatever the little happy face thing is

01:46:03   and it would do a face ID, right?

01:46:06   For this phone, they decided,

01:46:08   we're gonna incorporate that into the dynamic island.

01:46:10   So now when you do face ID,

01:46:12   the lozenge that's in the top expands downward,

01:46:14   kind of like the dynamic peninsula might do,

01:46:16   expands downward to be the face ID thing

01:46:19   and then goes back up.

01:46:20   The aesthetic result of that is that there is a black hole

01:46:24   at the top of your phone that periodically expands

01:46:26   into a very large gaping black hole.

01:46:29   And it has to be 100% black

01:46:32   because the whole point is it's hiding, you know,

01:46:34   the sensor arrays that are up there, right?

01:46:37   There is very little historically 100% black on your phone.

01:46:40   In fact, if you're doing driving directions,

01:46:42   when Apple Maps puts like the quote unquote

01:46:44   black overlay out there that says two miles,

01:46:46   right turn, exit 54, right?

01:46:48   That's not black.

01:46:50   It's almost black, but not quite black.

01:46:53   And the reason you know that is because you can see

01:46:55   the actual black lozenge of the dynamic island

01:46:58   punched out in the middle of the almost black directions.

01:47:01   So when that big thing comes down for face ID,

01:47:04   it is an unprecedented intrusion of blackness

01:47:07   of a gaping completely, you know,

01:47:09   zero, zero, zero black hole on our phone.

01:47:13   I don't find it particularly nice to see that black hole

01:47:15   opening up on the top of my phone.

01:47:17   It feels like an invasion of a black goo.

01:47:19   I find it aesthetically less pleasing

01:47:21   and the animation less pleasant and less pretty

01:47:25   than the previous Face ID animation.

01:47:28   Repeat this for every other thing that they do

01:47:31   that used to be done without incorporating the dynamic island

01:47:34   that now they decide to say,

01:47:36   oh, that's not a thing that appears on your screen,

01:47:39   it actually comes out of,

01:47:40   or is a result of the growth of the dynamic island.

01:47:43   And it results in a 100% black UI element

01:47:47   appearing in various sizes and shapes

01:47:48   near the top of my phone that is unrelated

01:47:51   to the cool stuff about the dynamic island,

01:47:53   which is hey, now I can see more stuff,

01:47:54   now I can get more status information,

01:47:56   like all that stuff is good.

01:47:58   What I disagree with is one of the things

01:48:00   that people think is so clever,

01:48:01   the aesthetic design decision to say,

01:48:04   now a bunch of UI elements on the phone

01:48:06   that previously were not 100% black

01:48:08   are going to be 100% black and I don't think it fits.

01:48:12   Is it the end of the world?

01:48:13   No, we'll get used to it, it will be fine.

01:48:15   But I was surprised at how much that bothered me

01:48:18   from sort of a, you know, just a beauty perspective,

01:48:23   a fashion perspective, a feeling perspective,

01:48:26   because it's really without any historical precedent

01:48:29   and I think for good reason that Apple has avoided

01:48:31   ever doing anything 100% black

01:48:33   'cause there's not part of their design language

01:48:34   of iOS or the iPhone,

01:48:36   but now suddenly it is.

01:48:37   I think it works in small doses

01:48:39   and it works as the status bar to hide the elements up there

01:48:42   but I mean, think of it this way.

01:48:43   If this was 100% screened phone,

01:48:45   I think Apple will and should continue

01:48:48   to have all that info at the top of your phone

01:48:50   but they would never choose to make it 100% black.

01:48:53   The only reason they make that choice

01:48:55   is to hide the sensor array

01:48:56   and if you remove the sensor array,

01:48:58   they can make different choices

01:48:59   and I think they should make different choices

01:49:02   to change what we would know, you know,

01:49:04   the status bar area to be more in keeping

01:49:07   with the rest of the design of the OS.

01:49:09   And until they can get to that point,

01:49:11   I would prefer that they not put things,

01:49:15   make things part of the dynamic island

01:49:17   that have no reason to be,

01:49:18   because they don't involve like extra status information

01:49:20   that'll be your phone.

01:49:21   Like they, you know, even just in terms of like face ID,

01:49:23   I would prefer to see it more centered on my phone,

01:49:25   more centered on the top half of my phone,

01:49:28   rather than coming from the very, very tippy top,

01:49:30   like it does now, because it has to,

01:49:31   because it has to expand to the dynamic island.

01:49:33   And this, you know, not a complaint.

01:49:35   I think the dynamic island's great.

01:49:36   I like it better than the notch.

01:49:37   The extra information is useful.

01:49:38   It's all good.

01:49:39   It's all, this is a net improvement.

01:49:41   It's just this one little part of it

01:49:43   that doesn't appeal to me personally

01:49:44   that I feel like I would prefer

01:49:47   if they make a different choice

01:49:48   when they can in the future.

01:49:49   - Yeah, see, I don't have any of those problems.

01:49:52   I'm not saying you're wrong,

01:49:54   but this has never bothered me,

01:49:56   and I just looked at it again.

01:49:57   It still doesn't bother me even with my eyes opened.

01:49:59   I'm, again, not trying to say you're wrong,

01:50:00   but it just does not bother me at all.

01:50:02   I mean, it's just like an aesthetic choice.

01:50:04   Like, it doesn't look as nice to me.

01:50:07   And the minorest of most monochromes are

01:50:09   I would never trade it back for the notch,

01:50:10   purely because of the extra info and UI

01:50:13   that goes on up there.

01:50:14   Like, it is 100% a net win.

01:50:15   It's just, I was surprised at how much it bothered me

01:50:18   for this black hole to be opening and closing on my iPhone.

01:50:21   - Yeah.

01:50:23   Cameras, I haven't had too much time

01:50:25   to take any pictures with the,

01:50:28   or I should say I haven't had the occasion

01:50:30   take many pictures with the cameras. They seem good so far. I don't really have too much more

01:50:34   to say about that. I very, very briefly played with today's Halide update, I think it was today,

01:50:40   where they added a toggle, a kind of fast toggle, to go between 48 megapixel and, you know, standard

01:50:49   12 megapixel bend. And I've played with that the tiniest little bit. I need to spend more time with

01:50:55   it. The size of the Mesa is big. I don't find it too offensive coming from the 13 Pro, but

01:51:03   I've got to imagine, Jon, you are probably disgusted coming from the 12 Pro.

01:51:08   Yeah, so, getting back to my case thing, this has nothing to do with the particular case,

01:51:16   but it's a thing that I noticed. When I put my phone on the table now, it's on an angle.

01:51:22   the 12 Pro my phone was flat right and you know you're like oh it's not gonna

01:51:25   lay flat but I guess I didn't really think through it like it's not just like

01:51:28   oh it's like crooked or whatever it is it's tilted it's literally tilted all

01:51:32   the time and it looks odd to me it looks like you know like my phone is about to

01:51:36   stand up right it's like oh I'm coming up coming on table like no it's just

01:51:39   resting on the camera housing there I'm sure I'll get used to it it's fine my

01:51:43   use of the camera I'm enjoying having both 2x and 3x I you know that's I was

01:51:50   I was afraid that it was gonna be like oh I'll never use the 2x or it'll be awkward to get to it

01:51:53   I've already used the 2x right and and I don't in practice. I don't know especially it's sunny out taking pictures outside

01:51:59   I don't notice the difference you know in terms of the crop and everything I took a few 48 megapixel raws

01:52:04   I found out that the camera continues to not do well when it's facing

01:52:08   Anywhere remotely near the Sun when the snow is at a low angle because it just totally washes out

01:52:12   You know that's just part of phone cameras, but yeah, it's been working fine for me

01:52:16   I don't have any complaints about it other than obviously it's it's giant size this graph by Ryan Jones that he tweeted

01:52:23   that shows the historical size of

01:52:25   Historical thickness of the phone and then overlay it on top of that the thickness of the Mesa and the thickness of the turret

01:52:31   That stick out of the Mesa

01:52:32   So three different colors the phone is blue

01:52:34   The Mesa is red and the turrets on top of the Mesa are like pinkish and you can look at the progress and it's you

01:52:41   Know that's it's what we all know

01:52:43   You'll get the phone got real thin real fast and then that camera Mesa just grew and grew and grew and then the turrets grew

01:52:49   And grew and grew and at this point

01:52:51   The things that are sticking out of the back of the phone are more than half the thickness of the phone body

01:52:56   I wouldn't be surprised if current trends continue that eventually the thing that sticks out of the back of the phone is

01:53:01   As thick as the phone itself if you don't get to periscope camera soon

01:53:06   That's gonna happen because they just want to keep making these cameras better and the sensors bigger and optically

01:53:11   The only way out of that is periscope or just keep making the things taller

01:53:15   I'm reserving judgment of how much this is going to really affect my life until I get my various leather cases and see how I

01:53:22   Deal with them but already

01:53:23   Slipping this in and out of my pockets and everything

01:53:25   It's fine. I mean you get used to it

01:53:28   it's fine like and you know and I did mention when I have my 12 pro that when I use my wife's my finger would

01:53:33   always hit the lip on the

01:53:35   What he called a little thingy like that

01:53:36   I read the case has like a little wall around the camera Mason and I may send my fingers hit it. It's true

01:53:41   My fingers do hit it and now having used it for a few days

01:53:43   I've actually started to use that as a way to

01:53:46   to keep the slippery case from slipping out of my hand because now I can brace my finger against the bottom of the camera thing and

01:53:52   It keeps it from sliding again

01:53:54   We'll see how that happens with my you know, the ones that look more like a volcano is in my leather cases

01:53:58   So I'll update that on things go but you know

01:54:01   I wouldn't trade it for the 12 pro camera because I was already feeling camera inferiority

01:54:07   I would constantly borrow my wife's phone to take a picture if we're out for a walk together

01:54:10   and now I don't have to do that anymore.

01:54:12   So again, net win.

01:54:14   - The only thing that it does definitely cause problems with

01:54:17   that might be unexpected is that the ongoing problem

01:54:22   in the first world where your phone makes a recognizable

01:54:27   imprint in your jeans pocket.

01:54:29   Now there's also a recognizable sub imprint

01:54:34   of the camera Mesa.

01:54:35   Like all summer I was wearing these soft corduroy shorts

01:54:39   And like, this thing just, like the 13 Pro,

01:54:43   just like tore through, like it has this massive imprint

01:54:47   of its camera mesa, like in the shorts pocket area,

01:54:51   and this 14 Pro is gonna be even more so in that way.

01:54:55   - Well, you can always go against all good scents

01:54:58   and people with no AppleCare

01:55:01   and not face the screen towards your leg.

01:55:03   - No, that's crazy.

01:55:04   - I know, but like hey, it's out there as an option.

01:55:07   And then what you'd get is a camera-mason imprint

01:55:09   on your thigh.

01:55:10   - One other thing before I forget,

01:55:12   as I'm looking at the camera-mason,

01:55:13   I got the white, well, silver, whatever it's called,

01:55:17   and it's finally a decent white.

01:55:19   Like, and Casey, maybe this is your area of expertise.

01:55:22   (laughing)

01:55:23   It's really, like, so, you know, previous,

01:55:25   the last few white phones, or, you know,

01:55:28   close to white phones have been kind of this, like,

01:55:30   off-white, you know, John would affectionately call them

01:55:32   dishwater color phones.

01:55:35   - Starlight.

01:55:36   - Yeah, right.

01:55:36   - Starlight Dishwater.

01:55:38   - This is actually, it's a whitish silver.

01:55:41   In the same way many watch faces, not Apple Watch,

01:55:47   many analog watch faces that you think are white

01:55:50   are really silver.

01:55:52   And by the way, if you get an actual white watch,

01:55:54   it's really striking in person.

01:55:56   I actually love real white watches, they're pretty rare.

01:56:00   But this is definitely one of those,

01:56:03   it's white in the sense that it's silver, basically.

01:56:05   but it's like a whitish coating of silver.

01:56:08   But it looks pretty nice, and that's one of the reasons

01:56:11   why I think I'm gonna stick with clear cases again

01:56:13   for this generation, in addition to just plastic

01:56:16   being a really good material for me, practically speaking,

01:56:18   in my waterborne environment.

01:56:21   - Apple could combine that if it ever wanted to.

01:56:23   Do you remember the white 5C?

01:56:25   I thought that was,

01:56:25   thought it looked amazing. - Yeah.

01:56:27   Yeah, it did.

01:56:28   The white 5C, I think, was the best looking 5C.

01:56:30   It just happened to be white.

01:56:31   - Yeah, and you have the protection,

01:56:33   a rigidity and lightness of plastic and pure white color

01:56:36   and you don't need a case.

01:56:37   - Yeah, and like, you know, my case to set up here

01:56:40   with the Apple Clear case and the new white phone

01:56:43   is, you know, maybe, I wouldn't say necessarily reminiscent

01:56:46   of that in the sense that it doesn't look like a stormtrooper

01:56:49   or anything like that, but it has a lot of the same

01:56:51   nice qualities of that, so I really like it.

01:56:54   - You get the downside of being a display area

01:56:56   for all of the dust and crumbs that will eventually

01:56:58   find their way in there.

01:56:59   - Yeah, they will, I mean, there's already some

01:57:00   on the side bands and, you know, I just put it on the nose.

01:57:02   The only other thing is that when you have the white phone,

01:57:06   the blackness of those three giant camera lenses

01:57:10   really stands out.

01:57:12   And so you kinda have to embrace like,

01:57:14   this is not gonna look like a white object,

01:57:16   this is gonna look like a light silver object

01:57:18   with some very high contrast black holes in it.

01:57:21   (laughing)

01:57:22   But otherwise, so it has that kind of downside,

01:57:26   but overall I still like the look a lot

01:57:28   and I still prefer it to the other colors.

01:57:29   And I still wish they would have more fun colors.

01:57:32   - Yeah, I would agree with the fun colors thing.

01:57:35   The paste warning apparently is a bug.

01:57:38   I definitely have seen this.

01:57:39   It's definitely been frustrating,

01:57:40   but somebody wrote to Federighi and he replied,

01:57:43   which of course got broadcast to the entire world,

01:57:45   that it is indeed a bug.

01:57:46   It will be fixed at some point.

01:57:48   Is that still going on in 16.1, Marco?

01:57:51   - I don't think so.

01:57:51   - All right.

01:57:52   - I saw it so much.

01:57:53   I thought it had to be a bug.

01:57:54   I think I was like copying pasting within the same app

01:57:56   and I was getting it every time.

01:57:57   - Yeah.

01:57:58   - Like, no, this can't be intended behavior

01:58:00   and sure enough, it's a bug.

01:58:01   Please fix this soon 'cause I'm sick of that dialogue.

01:58:04   - Let's talk about the Apple Watch.

01:58:05   I have received my Series 8 Apple Watch.

01:58:08   I got the small one, the 41 millimeter.

01:58:12   I got it with a way too large,

01:58:13   which is entirely my own fault, a solo loop,

01:58:16   which I will need to figure out

01:58:17   what it's like to exchange that.

01:58:20   - Easy.

01:58:21   - But hopefully, 'cause I remember originally

01:58:22   you had to return the whole damn watch, which was not fun.

01:58:26   But anyways, that's on me, that's entirely on me.

01:58:29   But I got this new Apple Watch.

01:58:30   I'm coming from a Series 6, which I believe is 40 millimeters, if I'm not mistaken.

01:58:34   I forget exactly what it was now.

01:58:37   This thing doesn't sit any different on my wrist as compared to the Series 6, but immediately

01:58:42   my first reaction was, "Holy crap, the screen is huge."

01:58:45   Because it goes way further to the edges, and I feel like you can fit so much more stuff

01:58:51   on here.

01:58:52   That's probably not actually true.

01:58:54   I bet the difference is not as big as I think it is, but it feels bigger.

01:58:57   - No, no, it's a big difference.

01:59:00   The new 41 from the Series 7 and Series 8

01:59:03   is much closer to the old big watches than you think.

01:59:06   The new big watches, of course, are even bigger,

01:59:09   but yeah, you end up with quite a lot of screen space

01:59:12   and it makes a big difference.

01:59:13   And actually, it's a big enough difference

01:59:15   that the Series 7 and 8, you know, 41 millimeter ones,

01:59:19   also have the little tiny onscreen keyboard

01:59:24   that you can occasionally need to type in your Apple ID,

01:59:26   password on, when that whole thing bugs out.

01:59:28   - Fair.

01:59:30   So yeah, the screen is bigger.

01:59:31   It doesn't feel much faster or different

01:59:34   or anything like that in terms of hardware.

01:59:37   But I will say, I don't think the haptic engine

01:59:39   or the haptic feedback is as strong as my old one was.

01:59:43   The same materials, they're both aluminum.

01:59:46   The other one's two years old now.

01:59:47   I genuinely feel like this one is weaker,

01:59:49   particularly when using the crown.

01:59:50   I don't know if that's like a hardware difference,

01:59:52   a software difference, a little of column A,

01:59:54   a little of column B.

01:59:56   But that is a little bit frustrating.

01:59:58   But other than that, so far so good.

02:00:00   I really like it.

02:00:01   We ordered both of ours, both Aaron and myself,

02:00:04   at the same time, I don't know,

02:00:05   maybe 15 minutes after the keynote ended.

02:00:07   Mine is here.

02:00:09   Aaron got a pink, I forget what the actual color is,

02:00:12   but pink solo loop instead of a blue one like I got,

02:00:15   and hers hasn't even shipped yet.

02:00:17   And I don't really get why, like it's fine, whatever,

02:00:19   it's not a big deal, but that's very, very curious to me

02:00:22   because they're the exact same hardware

02:00:23   just with a different band around it.

02:00:25   I guess there's something about that band

02:00:26   that made it ship slower.

02:00:28   But that strikes me as a little funny,

02:00:31   but so far so good.

02:00:32   It's a nice watch.

02:00:33   I don't think it's a critical update

02:00:35   for anyone that has a Series 7,

02:00:36   which I think both of,

02:00:37   maybe it was just Marco,

02:00:38   one or both of you guys said last time.

02:00:40   And it wasn't even a critical update from the 6th,

02:00:44   but for battery life alone,

02:00:45   it's nice to have a nice fresh battery again.

02:00:47   But yeah, so far so good.

02:00:49   That's basically all I have to say about that.

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02:02:19   - Marco, you wanna tell me why your car has a watch?

02:02:22   - Yeah, so I briefly alluded to this earlier.

02:02:24   So yeah, so I bought the refurb Apple Watch Series 6

02:02:30   for my kid, and I discussed on last week's show.

02:02:34   That was not the only watch I ordered that week.

02:02:37   As you know, I have a weird driving situation

02:02:39   with this whole beach, sand driving thing.

02:02:44   And one, because you are driving on a beach

02:02:46   that varies in width throughout the season

02:02:49   and throughout different times of the day,

02:02:51   it is useful to know the tide level

02:02:55   and when you will be at low tide,

02:02:57   when you will be at high tide.

02:02:59   And I have a number of different apps on my phone

02:03:03   that can track tides.

02:03:05   None of them do a great job of it in various ways.

02:03:09   And I'm actually probably gonna write my own little custom

02:03:11   thing just to track my title stations,

02:03:13   just to make it a little bit easier.

02:03:15   I can do it my way that I actually need.

02:03:17   But that, until I get that done, I'm like, all right,

02:03:21   well, I'm now starting to drive on the sand.

02:03:24   I've now done two sand drives in the Defender,

02:03:27   and first of all, oh my God, it's good at it.

02:03:32   It is so good at it.

02:03:33   Like, it's way better than the FJ,

02:03:36   and the FJ was really good at it.

02:03:38   Like, I can't believe how easy it is

02:03:41   to drive on the sand in this thing.

02:03:43   I have to do nothing.

02:03:45   I have to, all I do is tell it to go to sand mode,

02:03:47   and it lifts itself up even higher

02:03:51   to its maximum suspension height with the air suspension,

02:03:54   and it is so far off the ground it's hilarious,

02:03:57   and it just flies over the sand.

02:04:00   I can jump in and out of the tracks,

02:04:01   like, oh, that track over there looks better.

02:04:04   Let me just turn out of these deep ruts I'm in

02:04:06   and just go right out of them, go right into the other ones.

02:04:09   I can't believe how good it is,

02:04:11   how easy it makes everything.

02:04:13   It's fantastic so far.

02:04:15   Anyway, so I do have this need.

02:04:18   You gotta know when the tides are

02:04:20   because at certain times of the year,

02:04:22   the beach gets more narrow

02:04:23   with different storm and wave patterns.

02:04:25   And you can go two different ways.

02:04:28   You can go the kind of interior roadway

02:04:31   which has some loose sand sections

02:04:34   but is mostly going through all little tiny towns

02:04:36   and so it's slower, but it doesn't involve

02:04:40   the actual shoreline, or you can go on the beach itself,

02:04:45   but then you are at the whims of the waves

02:04:47   and you don't wanna go anywhere near them, of course,

02:04:49   so you wanna stay on the drive area, but you gotta know,

02:04:51   anyway, so if you were in storm season, which is now,

02:04:56   and it was high tide, you might decide

02:05:00   to take the interior route and not go on the beach.

02:05:02   So it's very useful for me to know when I'm driving,

02:05:05   Is it high tide or low tide right now?

02:05:07   And in the near future, when will that be?

02:05:11   So, I said, let me start looking at lock screen widgets,

02:05:16   different widget apps on my phone, watch complications,

02:05:20   to try to figure out how can I most easily

02:05:23   have the tide displayed to me in a way

02:05:26   that is relevant and useful and reliable and accurate.

02:05:30   And I just have been hitting walls with the app selection.

02:05:34   They're bad, every Tide app is bad.

02:05:37   Even otherwise good apps that have Tide features

02:05:42   are not great for what I'm going for.

02:05:44   Some of them are reliable and they have the info I need

02:05:47   but I don't like the way it's presented.

02:05:48   Some of them are designed by somebody

02:05:52   who's never used a Tide need before

02:05:54   and so it'll do things like not allow a second location

02:05:58   to be set for which title station you're pulling from.

02:06:00   It'll just pull from the nearest title station.

02:06:02   Well, if you live near a few bodies of water,

02:06:04   the nearest tidal station might be in the wrong one.

02:06:07   (laughs)

02:06:08   And so, I don't need to know the tide in the bay,

02:06:11   I need to know the tide in the ocean.

02:06:13   - Before you get into why you think a watch

02:06:15   is solving this problem, have you considered

02:06:18   what they used to use back in the olden days

02:06:20   before we had smartphones?

02:06:21   Just get a tide table on a piece of paper

02:06:23   and stick it in your car.

02:06:25   - I have that.

02:06:26   - Tides are knowable, they're not random.

02:06:27   - I have that, they give you that with the driving permit.

02:06:29   But the problem with the tide table is that

02:06:33   you have to get it out and look at it

02:06:35   and not read it wrong.

02:06:36   - You're just sticking to your dashboard.

02:06:39   - It's a huge sheet of paper.

02:06:40   - All right, all right.

02:06:41   I mean, I understand the technology has some advantages,

02:06:44   but as you rattled off all the ways

02:06:45   that people are screwing this up,

02:06:46   it's like a tide table solved this problem.

02:06:48   But anyway, continue.

02:06:49   - So I had this crazy idea because the defender,

02:06:54   and by the way, I'm really growing to love

02:06:59   many details of it.

02:07:00   The interior is, it was really weird at first,

02:07:03   but I'm starting to learn like, oh, this is designed,

02:07:06   in the same way that we've praised Apple

02:07:09   for designing the new MacBook Pro and the Apple Watch Ultra,

02:07:12   in ways that maybe don't look the prettiest

02:07:15   as they could be, but are highly functional

02:07:17   and clearly designed with user feedback

02:07:20   taken into consideration and designed to be function first,

02:07:23   that's how the Defender is.

02:07:25   The interior of it, I keep discovering little details

02:07:28   as I use it for things like off-roading,

02:07:31   that I'm seeing like, oh, this is why this is this way.

02:07:34   Oh, that's easy and that's convenient.

02:07:36   I just learned today that it has those cool

02:07:39   windshield washer jets that are in the wipers.

02:07:44   So it doesn't spray the whole windshield

02:07:46   from these little dots on the hood first

02:07:48   and then wipe across.

02:07:49   It sprays from the attachment point of the blade to the arm

02:07:54   and so it basically sprays right in front of the wiper

02:07:58   as it's going so it doesn't splatter all over the place.

02:08:01   - He wants to make one more thing that's easy to break.

02:08:04   - Well, that's all, you know, you are such a pessimist.

02:08:08   No, that's the same-- - You're the one saying

02:08:08   who's gonna buy this British car

02:08:10   and who's gonna break all the time,

02:08:11   and like, oh, overcomplicated wiper blades,

02:08:14   I'm sure those won't break at any point.

02:08:15   - No, that would be fine. - Probably after

02:08:16   Marco gives away the car.

02:08:17   - No, that would be fine because the Volvo

02:08:19   has the same overcomplicated wiper blades

02:08:21   and it's been no problem.

02:08:22   The air suspension that he mentioned earlier,

02:08:24   that's what's going to fail

02:08:25   and fail spectacularly any minute now.

02:08:28   - Cool. - Any minute, come on.

02:08:30   I mean, it's a brand new car, it'll be fine.

02:08:31   - It's not brand new, it's almost two years old.

02:08:33   Anyway. - Well, still,

02:08:34   I give you a good five years

02:08:36   where nothing will break in that car,

02:08:37   and then it will be downhill.

02:08:38   - Yeah, then that's when I'll get rid of it.

02:08:40   Anyway, so, so, so far I'm loving this thing.

02:08:45   Anyway, so, going back,

02:08:47   I wanted a way to display the tides reliably,

02:08:49   and I was having no luck doing that

02:08:51   on my lock screen on my phone,

02:08:53   and I thought, you know what,

02:08:55   wouldn't it be great if I had a tide clock in the car?

02:08:59   'Cause they make things called tide clocks.

02:09:02   The way you calculate tides is there's a whole bunch

02:09:07   of overlapping factors, but you can basically

02:09:09   pre-compute them for a while into the future

02:09:12   with fairly low error rates.

02:09:14   That's why you can get a tide table printed out

02:09:16   for the whole year in advance.

02:09:17   This information, there's APIs on NOAA, they're all free.

02:09:21   You can just go to NOAA's site, they even tell you

02:09:23   you can view a page with a tide station data

02:09:26   and it'll tell you what API call you can make

02:09:29   to get this exact same data that we're showing

02:09:31   on this page the way you set it up.

02:09:32   It's very friendly to all that stuff.

02:09:33   So the data's out there and you can pre-computer it

02:09:35   ahead of time, so this is again,

02:09:37   why a widget or something makes perfect sense.

02:09:39   But I thought, you know, I learned a little while ago

02:09:44   about a G-Shock model.

02:09:48   I saw it on a Japanese import page

02:09:51   and most G-Shocks don't have tide information

02:09:53   but they make one that does.

02:09:55   And all the reviews were like,

02:09:56   well I don't really need the tied information,

02:09:57   but I guess the rest of the watch is cool.

02:10:00   And I'm like, wait a minute,

02:10:01   I need only the tied information.

02:10:03   (laughing)

02:10:05   And so, and Amazon had it on sale for like $110.

02:10:09   And the Defender's dashboard has this section

02:10:14   above the glove box where it's basically like a bar

02:10:18   that's about the size of a wrist with handles behind it.

02:10:22   Usually the passenger can grab onto that

02:10:24   if you're like sideways on a trail somewhere.

02:10:28   And so, here's a picture.

02:10:31   So I got this thing and I attached it

02:10:33   to this little section above the glove box in the dash.

02:10:36   It has this like highly visible MIP LCD thing.

02:10:41   And it is perfect.

02:10:43   I now have a tide clock basically on my dashboard.

02:10:48   So I can always just glance and see

02:10:51   where is the Tide right now?

02:10:52   And it doesn't require anything from me.

02:10:55   I had to pair it with my phone over Bluetooth,

02:10:58   watches do Bluetooth now,

02:10:59   just to set which Tide station I was using,

02:11:03   'cause it's this obscure one that no one else uses.

02:11:06   So I had to set that with the Bluetooth pairing,

02:11:08   but then once it's set, it's done,

02:11:10   and I have to replace the battery every two years.

02:11:13   And that's it.

02:11:14   And it's this great, cool little appliance

02:11:16   that happens to fit perfectly on my dashboard,

02:11:19   and now I have a tide clock in my car.

02:11:21   - I don't know about highly visible,

02:11:22   do you need your reading glasses to see this thing?

02:11:25   That's some small numbers there.

02:11:27   - I mean, it's small.

02:11:28   I mean, first of all, for a watch, I tried it on first,

02:11:30   I've never owned a G-Shock before this.

02:11:32   My God, it's massive.

02:11:34   - And it's not in front of you,

02:11:36   it's in front of the passenger, kind of,

02:11:37   I mean, it's near the center console, I guess.

02:11:39   - Yeah, it's near the middle, but yeah,

02:11:41   there was no loop through handle section like that

02:11:43   near the driver, but I put it over there and it's fine,

02:11:46   'cause all I need to know is, is it high tide or low tide?

02:11:49   or is it going in or coming out?

02:11:50   I can just quickly glance and see that,

02:11:52   even from the driver's seat, very, very easily.

02:11:54   And it's a little hard to photograph

02:11:57   these MIP LCD screens, but they are extremely visible.

02:12:02   It's, you know how the Playdate looks really good

02:12:06   from one angle, or one light angle hitting it?

02:12:10   - No, I don't know that, don't try to rub it in.

02:12:12   I just got an email. (laughing)

02:12:14   I just got an email that, well actually I do,

02:12:15   I've used it in real life before, but anyway,

02:12:17   Mine is actually shipping soon, but I don't have it yet.

02:12:19   - Anyway, so this thing, it is like that

02:12:24   from lots of angles with lots of light hitting it so far.

02:12:29   I only had it on today for the whole drive back today,

02:12:31   so I've only had one day of experience with it,

02:12:33   but that one day, that covered bright sun

02:12:36   all the way into sunset, and it was great.

02:12:39   So I'm very impressed with this weird LCD technology.

02:12:44   If for some reason I would ever go back

02:12:46   to wearing this kind of watch,

02:12:48   I would want one with this kind of screen.

02:12:50   Like it's that good of a screen.

02:12:52   This model is comically large on me

02:12:54   and I really can't wear it.

02:12:57   But otherwise, like for the reason I got it, it's perfect.

02:13:02   It's like a wonderful like fairly low tech solution

02:13:06   to this problem and it does it extremely well.

02:13:09   And you know, it happens to fit my dashboard.

02:13:12   I'm just, I'm delighted by how stupidly awesome this is.

02:13:14   (beeping)