498: Not MagSafe, but MagSafe


00:00:00   - So I think I've leveled up as a nerd.

00:00:03   - Oh.

00:00:04   - I have, for I think the first time ever,

00:00:08   replaced a toner cartridge on a home laser printer

00:00:11   in my house.

00:00:12   - Now is the leveling up having to do with you

00:00:14   performing the task as in look at what I did,

00:00:17   I changed my own oil, or is the leveling up

00:00:19   owning a laser printer long enough to use up all the toner?

00:00:21   - The latter.

00:00:22   So, you know, I know all the millenniums out there

00:00:28   like, I don't even need a printer.

00:00:30   Okay, I need printers, like that's just my life

00:00:32   and I don't know how anybody doesn't.

00:00:34   But anyway, I have always been a fan of laser printers.

00:00:37   Ever since I discovered them and ever since

00:00:39   they became affordable, which was, I'd say around 2001, 2002,

00:00:43   like they started getting those like sub few hundred dollar

00:00:46   ones that were just black and white

00:00:47   and like from Brother or whatever

00:00:49   and they were really good.

00:00:50   Anyway, over time I have moved on eventually to color lasers

00:00:54   And my favorite color laser is this giant HP Enterprise 500

00:00:59   series thing I have in Westchester that is just massive

00:01:03   and amazing and what I love about it is that you just

00:01:06   hit print and you walk over to the printer

00:01:08   and the time you arrive, it's there, it's done.

00:01:11   Like there's no warm up time, there's no like,

00:01:13   let me spin for a while and make some noises

00:01:15   'cause I'm an Epsom thing, like none of that stuff.

00:01:17   You literally just hit print on your computer,

00:01:19   get up, walk over to the printer and it's sitting there

00:01:21   in the tray ready to go.

00:01:22   I love that.

00:01:23   But here at the beach, my office is quite small

00:01:26   and I don't have a location

00:01:28   that I can put a giant color laser printer.

00:01:31   So I have a tiny one, this little HP M182NW.

00:01:36   And through a combination of me not being able

00:01:39   to fit a bigger printer that I actually want,

00:01:41   and right now printers are insanely expensive.

00:01:44   Like I don't know if you've shopped recently for printers.

00:01:46   I know John, you had one not too long ago,

00:01:48   but printers ever since COVID,

00:01:50   printers, especially the kind of printer

00:01:53   that somebody might want for a home office,

00:01:55   which tends to lean more towards low-end lasers,

00:01:58   especially with built-in scanners,

00:02:00   that category has been expensive

00:02:04   and hard to find for two years.

00:02:07   And especially the one I have,

00:02:09   like I happen to luck out and caught it like for list price

00:02:12   two years ago when I was setting up this office.

00:02:14   And I'm very lucky I did because it's been out of stock

00:02:17   for most of that time or it's been grossly overpriced

00:02:20   on like, you know, scraper sites.

00:02:21   - So it's available right now for $660 on Amazon.

00:02:25   - Oh my God, well the actual price,

00:02:27   some people have it in stock for its actual current list

00:02:30   price of about $470, which I think I paid $300 for it

00:02:34   two years ago. - Ooh, oh my.

00:02:36   - But a set of new toners is only $200.

00:02:40   And so I actually needed all four,

00:02:44   like all four running low, and I lasted a long time

00:02:48   of ignoring its warnings.

00:02:50   'Cause when laser printers tell you their toner is low,

00:02:52   they don't actually know.

00:02:54   All they're doing is keeping a page count.

00:02:57   Usually, this is a hot tip, you can just keep printing,

00:03:00   unless it has some kind of lockout

00:03:02   where eventually it'll just refuse,

00:03:03   which most of them don't, you can just keep printing

00:03:06   until you start seeing gaps in your printout.

00:03:09   And that's when you know you have to do something.

00:03:11   Now what you need to do might just be

00:03:13   taking out the cartridge and shaking it side to side

00:03:15   a little bit and then putting it back.

00:03:16   and you can usually get a bit more time out of it that way,

00:03:19   but eventually you'd actually do have to replace it.

00:03:22   But it's usually long after it tells you

00:03:24   you have to replace it.

00:03:25   But I actually finally have printed enough pages

00:03:28   on this printer and because it's a small printer,

00:03:31   it has very tiny capacity toner cartridges.

00:03:34   So that combination I finally had to replace

00:03:38   the toner cartridges.

00:03:39   And because of the crazy printer situation right now,

00:03:41   it is not worth just buying a new printer,

00:03:43   which it often, previous to COVID,

00:03:45   often was just cheaper to do that.

00:03:47   - Which is so sad.

00:03:48   - It really is. - But that's neither here

00:03:49   nor there.

00:03:51   Well, I'm very proud of you, Marco.

00:03:52   (electronic beeping)

00:03:54   A lot of you are gonna buy iPhones soon,

00:03:56   and that is a lot of money.

00:03:59   And you know what you can do with some of that money,

00:04:01   especially if you have a little extra laying around?

00:04:03   What can you do with that, Marco?

00:04:05   - Well, you can waste it on electronics

00:04:07   that you vaguely need,

00:04:08   or you can actually use it to literally help kids

00:04:12   with cancer.

00:04:14   First of all, to have research done to prevent that cancer

00:04:17   in the first place, then to have a hospital

00:04:20   that Americans, and because they're Americans,

00:04:23   they have terrible healthcare options,

00:04:24   can go to to have their child's cancer treated

00:04:27   and they never pay a dime, that's a pretty great cause.

00:04:32   St. Jude does amazing work in this area,

00:04:34   and we are very happy to join our friends at Relay

00:04:37   in their September campaign to support them.

00:04:40   - Whatever your particular financial situation is,

00:04:42   as much as we joke about buying new phones

00:04:43   and we're gonna be talking about new phones soon.

00:04:45   If you have even but a dollar to throw

00:04:48   in the direction of Memphis, Tennessee,

00:04:50   specifically to St. Jude, please consider donating.

00:04:52   You can go to stjude.org, that's S-T-J-U-D-E.org/ATP,

00:04:57   and you can very quickly and very easily

00:05:00   go ahead and donate there.

00:05:01   And this is something that the three of us

00:05:03   have been involved with for several years now.

00:05:06   We are all very close with Stephen Hackett.

00:05:08   Stephen Hackett is the co-founder of Relay FM,

00:05:10   And his eldest child, his son, was, and to some degree still is, a patient of St. Jude.

00:05:16   And his son, Josiah's life, was saved by St. Jude.

00:05:20   Like, I don't think this is up for grabs, I don't think this is up for debate.

00:05:24   This is what happened.

00:05:26   For St. Jude to do that and to not charge his family assent is bananas.

00:05:31   And I know if you lived in a civilized country, this sounds utterly depressing because it is,

00:05:36   But America, for all its good parts, has a lot of bad parts,

00:05:39   and one of the bad parts is healthcare.

00:05:41   And I can assure you, it is financially ruinous

00:05:43   to go through a devastating illness like this,

00:05:46   even with insurance.

00:05:47   And so for St. Jude to say to a family,

00:05:50   "Look, this is possibly the darkest days

00:05:52   "of your entire lives.

00:05:54   "We will take a small part of that and make it better.

00:05:57   "We will not charge you a cent.

00:05:58   "We will try to do everything in our power

00:06:01   "to fix your child and to help them survive and thrive."

00:06:05   It's a really phenomenal thing, and this has been going on for 60 years.

00:06:09   They opened their doors in 1962.

00:06:12   And what's great about St. Jude is that it's not just St. Jude Children's Hospital,

00:06:16   it's St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:06:19   And so because of treatments that have been developed at St. Jude,

00:06:22   the worldwide childhood cancer survival rate has gone from about 20% to more than 80%.

00:06:27   Now that's not exclusively St. Jude, but it's a lot St. Jude.

00:06:30   So even if you live in a civilized country where you don't have to worry as much about money

00:06:34   and things like that when it comes to illness,

00:06:37   you still have to worry about fixing the illness.

00:06:39   And St. Jude has done incredible and immense things

00:06:43   to help cure childhood cancer.

00:06:45   And hey, you could spend a bunch of money on a phone

00:06:47   that you'll throw away in a year or two,

00:06:49   or you could help cure childhood cancer.

00:06:51   You make the choice, what do you think is best?

00:06:53   So, Jon, what is our plan for the three of us?

00:06:56   What are we doing this year?

00:06:57   - So normally we try to make Casey do a hasty donation

00:07:00   while he's in the middle of recording another podcast,

00:07:02   and then he yells at us and accidentally puts an asterisk

00:07:04   in the name. We're not quite sure how we're going to make Casey donate this year.

00:07:08   No, no, stop! We discussed it before the show. We said we're not going to rush you to do

00:07:13   it now, but we don't actually know when. But anyway, we collectively, as the three hosts

00:07:16   of ATP, will be donating $21,000 to St. Jude this year. One of us will probably try to

00:07:22   be a jerk and add $1 more than the other members. We'll see how that works out. We haven't actually

00:07:27   pushed the button at the time of the recording, but we will be doing that. We are trying to

00:07:30   model good behavior for you, our wonderful listeners.

00:07:33   So please be generous.

00:07:35   Think about how much money you're going to spend on your phone.

00:07:37   And I'm going to say, just buy both.

00:07:38   That's the Marco approach.

00:07:39   Don't pick one or the other.

00:07:41   Buy a ridiculously expensive phone.

00:07:43   Buy the really expensive first-party Apple case.

00:07:45   And also donate a ton of money to St. Jude because that's what September is all about.

00:07:50   Yeah, so my usual pitch is, you know, many of us are about to, you know, sometime this

00:07:55   holiday season or this fall and possibly even next week, drop some money on some tech. You

00:08:02   know, whatever Apple's going to release, we're going to figure out reasons why we have to

00:08:04   have it and we're going to get something. You know, whether you're getting the iPhone

00:08:08   or the Apple Watch or you know, later on in the fall, maybe you're going to get a new

00:08:12   iPad or a new Mac or whatever it is. You're going to be spending some money on tech this

00:08:16   fall in all likelihood if you listen to this show. When that happens, you might have to

00:08:20   spend like seven or eight hundred dollars or more on something and a lot of times you

00:08:24   you get these add-ons at the end.

00:08:25   And that add-on might be something like a case.

00:08:28   Oh, there's another 60 bucks or whatever.

00:08:29   Or if it's an iPad, maybe a new smart cover

00:08:32   or a new keyboard, that's $100 or more.

00:08:35   And at the end, you might have to throw on,

00:08:37   oh, let's throw on some AppleCare, that's another $100.

00:08:40   Oh, sales tax, that's another $100.

00:08:43   Whatever those little increments are

00:08:45   that you kind of just do at the end

00:08:47   because you have to or it's an accessory charge or whatever,

00:08:50   you can donate at least that much to St. Jude.

00:08:53   because if that's how you're looking at the purchase,

00:08:55   oh, I'm gonna get a $700 phone.

00:08:57   Well, actually, it's gonna be an $800 phone

00:09:00   once I get the capacity I want or more.

00:09:02   And then, oh, and then it's gonna be,

00:09:04   actually, once I'm at the door with AppleCare in a case,

00:09:07   it's gonna be $1200.

00:09:09   You know what, you can give Sanju $200.

00:09:11   And so whatever you can do,

00:09:12   if your budget is not that high, give him $20,

00:09:15   give him $50, whatever you can do,

00:09:18   that's up to you with your abilities

00:09:20   and your priorities there, that's up to you.

00:09:21   but we ask that you at least give them something.

00:09:24   Because giving them something is better

00:09:25   than giving them nothing, and whatever you can give,

00:09:28   whether it's five bucks, 10 bucks, or 5,000 bucks,

00:09:32   that's fantastic, good for you, it's a great cause,

00:09:34   and we hope you do.

00:09:36   - What did we do last year for the top donor?

00:09:38   I remember we made a--

00:09:39   - I believe KC visited their house

00:09:41   and made them a Velveeta shells and cheese?

00:09:43   (laughing)

00:09:45   - We had the thing last year where if someone can beat ATP

00:09:48   with our $21,000 donation, if they become the new

00:09:51   top donor, topping us.

00:09:54   We're just competing, the competition's just between

00:09:56   ATP and ATP's listeners, there's probably other people

00:09:58   who are in the mix that you're not competing with,

00:10:00   or whatever.

00:10:01   We talked about them on the show, but did they get anything?

00:10:04   - Stickers, they got stickers.

00:10:06   - Oh, there we go, do you still have stickers left?

00:10:08   Are we doing that again?

00:10:09   - I am happy to do that again, and I do have stickers left.

00:10:12   However, I do have a limited quantity of stickers left.

00:10:15   I should probably print some more.

00:10:16   I can look if you let me step away from the mic

00:10:19   and dig up the stickers and figure out how many I have,

00:10:21   But suffice it to say, it would behoove you

00:10:23   to do a lot of donating and donating it quickly.

00:10:25   Now, you don't have to say, oh, this is for ATP

00:10:28   in the notes or anything like that.

00:10:29   Just send me an email or figure out a way to contact me,

00:10:32   send me something on Twitter.

00:10:33   It's not about ATP versus relay or anything like that.

00:10:35   It's just about raising money to cure childhood.

00:10:37   Oh, stop it. - A little.

00:10:38   - It's about raising money for childhood cancer.

00:10:42   So please, please.

00:10:43   - Raising money with some competition.

00:10:44   - Yeah, this kind of competition

00:10:46   helps people to donate more.

00:10:48   So if you want to be talked about,

00:10:49   if you want us to try to mangle your name

00:10:51   as we try to pronounce it on ATP

00:10:52   and then apologize profusely

00:10:54   and then get a sticker from Casey

00:10:55   if he still has some left,

00:10:57   all you gotta do is donate $21,000 and one cent.

00:11:00   (laughing)

00:11:00   Or more.

00:11:01   - You never know, what if I donate, what is it, $710?

00:11:05   - I know, yeah, you do have to wait

00:11:07   until we actually do our donations

00:11:08   because Casey sometimes shoves in a couple extra bucks.

00:11:11   - Doesn't it work for anybody who just beats us individually

00:11:14   'cause we do it as three individual $7,000 donations.

00:11:18   - Okay, so here's the thing,

00:11:19   I think that was the case last year,

00:11:21   but we had some utterly bananas donations last year.

00:11:25   So I will put the challenge out.

00:11:27   Okay, here's your competition.

00:11:28   We're not competing with Relay.

00:11:29   Here's your competition.

00:11:30   Can you, the listener, beat the three of us as a collective?

00:11:34   So, no stickers for you.

00:11:36   - That's a high bar.

00:11:37   - I'm serious, this is what happened last year.

00:11:38   - I would say anybody who beats the $7,000,

00:11:41   they should get stickers.

00:11:43   - What we'll have to do is wait until the whole thing

00:11:46   is over and then see what like the top X donors are

00:11:49   and see how many stickers we have

00:11:51   and figure it out from there.

00:11:52   'Cause we're not trying to make this like,

00:11:54   obviously most people can't give that much money, right?

00:11:57   You know, so give one dollar, that's what we want you to do.

00:12:00   Give five dollars, give 20 dollars, that's great.

00:12:02   But for the very, very wealthy individuals

00:12:04   who are listening to this and who are taking our advice

00:12:06   on what to do with their, you know,

00:12:07   six figure super hyper cars and stuff,

00:12:10   and their ATB members at the top level,

00:12:13   which is exactly the same as the bottom level,

00:12:15   (laughing)

00:12:17   They might, I mean, it was happened last year.

00:12:19   People donated a huge amount of money,

00:12:20   so I don't wanna discourage those people.

00:12:22   Very wealthy people, gone.

00:12:23   Do the very wealthy person thing,

00:12:24   and you may get a sticker worth probably at least 10 cents.

00:12:28   - Maybe 50, maybe 50 cents.

00:12:29   - The sticker may be worth as much as the stamp

00:12:31   that Casey uses to mail it.

00:12:32   - That's true, that's true.

00:12:33   - And you can put the 10 cent sticker on your hypercar.

00:12:36   Like that makes total sense, right?

00:12:38   - That's right, just peel it off

00:12:39   and put it on the window of your Ferrari.

00:12:41   It'll look great until it inevitably wears off

00:12:43   and Lou dies 'cause it's like a 10 cent sticker.

00:12:45   - Jon, let me tell you a little secret,

00:12:47   just between the three of us.

00:12:49   I actually sent like a couple of stickers to the big donors.

00:12:52   It was more than one, it was like two, maybe even four.

00:12:55   I think that somebody donated more than $20,000

00:12:57   might even have gotten like six.

00:12:59   - It was a raid array of stickers.

00:13:00   That's why we have no stickers left.

00:13:02   This is sticker inflation.

00:13:03   You gotta be sending these people six stickers.

00:13:05   You gotta think about the future ones.

00:13:07   You know we can't actually make any more stickers.

00:13:08   We've lost the technology for sticker making.

00:13:10   - Yep, that's right.

00:13:11   - I think if somebody actually donates like $21,001,

00:13:16   I think they can get like a pack of stickers at that point.

00:13:19   What is a pack of stickers, like 10 bucks?

00:13:21   - You can give them Marco's old toner cartridge.

00:13:25   We'll think of something.

00:13:26   - No, it's already gone.

00:13:27   I don't have enough room in this office

00:13:28   to keep spares around.

00:13:30   - Well actually, if you really wanna go nuts,

00:13:32   this is going way off the rails,

00:13:33   the speakers that you sent to me and gifted me,

00:13:36   I never ended up doing anything with them

00:13:38   because then I immediately got the studio display

00:13:40   right after and that was sufficient for my purposes.

00:13:42   So you can have third hand Marco speakers

00:13:45   if you're in the continental United States.

00:13:47   - That sounds more like a curse gift.

00:13:48   (laughing)

00:13:50   - I think I'm kidding.

00:13:51   - You gotta buy a receiver to connect them to

00:13:52   and it's the whole thing.

00:13:53   - I think I'm kidding but we'll see.

00:13:54   If you donate like $30,000 we'll talk.

00:13:56   And CMF in the chat said, you know,

00:13:58   would you send whoever the top donor is an apple pie

00:14:02   as made by Aaron 'cause Aaron makes

00:14:03   some of the world's best apple pies.

00:14:05   I don't think that's really feasible

00:14:06   but I like where your head's at

00:14:08   And if you really do donate tens and tens of thousands of dollars,

00:14:10   let's see what we can figure out. I had no guarantees on anything.

00:14:13   I don't think you can ship food in the mail like that.

00:14:15   I don't think it would survive or be.

00:14:18   Maybe we'll send the recipe. I don't know.

00:14:19   You're going to send the recipe?

00:14:21   I don't know, man. I've just worked with you. Play with me in the space here.

00:14:24   The display postscript of food prizes.

00:14:27   Well, actually, you know, here's what, if we get a hundred thousand dollar donation,

00:14:31   will you send them a pasta sauce recipe? I'll put you on the spot.

00:14:34   Yeah, sure.

00:14:35   For a hundred thousand dollars. You got to John's.

00:14:37   happen but yeah I will oh no challenge accepted but not for me nobody wants it

00:14:40   but yeah I hear you heard it here first hundred thousand dollar donation you get

00:14:43   John's pasta sauce recipe which you may not share with anyone that's part of the

00:14:46   deal you may not share it with anyone but you can have it and however you make

00:14:50   it it will be wrong yeah that's all Merlin made it and he said he liked it

00:14:54   then he never made it again because it's just too much work and he made it wrong

00:14:57   no he made it fine as far as I know oh my goodness all right complicated in any

00:15:03   case, please, please, please, all kidding aside, and really and truly, as much as we're joking

00:15:08   about the big ticket donors, honest to goodness, the fundraising is not about the, you know,

00:15:12   $1,000 donation, the $10,000 donation, the $100,000 donation to get John's Pasta Sauce recipe.

00:15:18   It's about the $10, and $20, and $30 donations. If you're a student and you can only send a few

00:15:22   bucks, send a few bucks! Feel good about yourself. There's nothing wrong with that. So please,

00:15:26   you're going to hear this a few more times. You'll hear it all through September, but please,

00:15:29   please, please consider going to stju.org/ATP. Nobody's making you, you don't have to, but if you

00:15:36   have a few dollars to send their way, it would make the three of us and kids sick with cancer

00:15:42   very, very happy. So please think about it. All right, we have a surprisingly short amount to

00:15:48   follow up this week. Jon, can you tell me about your polarizer and your lens protector?

00:15:52   That's something new I did this year, and I was reminded when I was going through a bunch of my

00:15:55   camera junk on my shelf that I actually did this back when I got my first like Sony a6300 my first

00:16:02   interchangeable lens camera I had bought I don't like a clear lens protector that like screws onto

00:16:08   the front of the lens to protect it from things hitting it or scratches and stuff like that and

00:16:13   I never really used it like I didn't even remember that I had it until I found it up on the shelf

00:16:18   I'm like oh yeah I remember when I got this and I guess I didn't use it and I think why I didn't use

00:16:21   it was after I bought it, I don't even know why I bought it, it was probably suggested

00:16:25   to me as like other people bought this, you know, whatever.

00:16:28   People were saying, oh you shouldn't put that on there because with an APS-C camera like

00:16:34   that you need all the light you can get to the sensor and even though these things are

00:16:37   ostensibly clear, sometimes they cut down the amount of light that goes in especially

00:16:41   if they're not so good and plus you can get glare and reflections and they were naysayers

00:16:45   let's say.

00:16:46   I was like, "Oh, I don't want any of that, and I need all the light I can get, so I won't

00:16:52   use this thing."

00:16:53   But when I went on my recent Long Island vacation, I'd totally forgotten about that, but I was

00:16:58   looking through lens stuff, and I was getting suggested to me by various e-commerce sites,

00:17:07   polarizers and clear lens protectors.

00:17:10   Clear lens protectors I was interested in because I had just bought, thanks to Marcos

00:17:13   first gift, a very, very expensive lens, and that I didn't want it to get scratched.

00:17:19   And I'm like, "Okay, well, if I get a clear lens cover, that will help protect it."

00:17:23   And I watched some YouTube videos about that, like, "Yeah, the clear ones are pretty good,

00:17:28   and it's way cheaper to replace them than it is to try to replace a lens that has a

00:17:33   scratch on it."

00:17:35   I was kind of surprised at how expensive a clear piece of whatever the heck it is that

00:17:39   screws onto your lens can possibly be.

00:17:41   but I'm like, it's that the floor mats effect

00:17:44   where you're buying a $30,000 car

00:17:45   and $150 for floor mats doesn't seem so bad, right?

00:17:48   When if you were just buying floor mats by themselves

00:17:51   and they were $150, you'd be like, what?

00:17:52   Although my price is right up to date,

00:17:54   I should probably say like $500

00:17:55   of what the hell floor mats cost now.

00:17:57   So I was considering that.

00:17:59   And also in the same sort of genre of suggested products

00:18:04   were polarizers, which is the thing you put on the lens

00:18:09   your camera that is, it's like polarized sunglasses that cuts down on light whose wavelength is,

00:18:15   what is it, it's not the wavelength, it's the cut down light with the direction of the waves lines

00:18:21   up in a certain way, right? And so I actually decided to get both of those things. I got the

00:18:25   clear protective lens for my very expensive lens that I was going to use like then you know by just

00:18:32   sort of everyday lens that I was going to use for people sitting on the beach towel and people back

00:18:35   at the house and stuff like that.

00:18:36   And then I got a polarizer from my long lens

00:18:39   for people out in the ocean,

00:18:40   'cause you do get a lot of glare

00:18:41   and reflections off of the ocean.

00:18:43   And when I got the polarizer,

00:18:45   I was kind of surprised to see

00:18:46   that it didn't have any markings on it.

00:18:47   So the way the polarizer works is,

00:18:50   I don't know if you've ever done this

00:18:51   with like pieces of an LCD or whatever,

00:18:54   but you twist it, and when you twist it in one direction,

00:18:59   it's basically clear, not really,

00:19:02   it cuts down some light, but it's basically clear.

00:19:04   It's not doing anything polarizing.

00:19:06   And when you twist it, I think 90 degrees,

00:19:08   that's maximum polarized filtering

00:19:11   where it will cancel out the light waves

00:19:14   that are aligned in a particular direction, right?

00:19:16   But there's nothing on the little thing that says,

00:19:19   this position is off and this position is on

00:19:22   and all the positions in between.

00:19:24   Like, well, maybe they don't put the markings

00:19:25   'cause it's so obvious when you look through the lens

00:19:27   which direction it is.

00:19:29   And for me, it was kind of like the lip sync thing.

00:19:31   It was not obvious.

00:19:32   I had to go out to my car on my driveway on a sunny day,

00:19:35   look through the viewfinder and twist the thing.

00:19:39   And then you would see, okay, I see the highlights,

00:19:42   the reflections of the sun bouncing off my car,

00:19:44   the twist, twist, twist,

00:19:45   ah, they've kind of almost disappeared.

00:19:47   Then twist, twist, like, ah, they're back.

00:19:48   And so doing that, I figured out where the sort of,

00:19:51   as best as I could judge where the maximum effect was

00:19:55   and where the off position was,

00:19:57   but still no markings on the filter, which is really weird.

00:19:59   And both of those, both of the clear one

00:20:01   that I put on my expensive lens and the polarizer

00:20:03   that I put on my long lens, very expensive.

00:20:06   Very expensive for a circular thing.

00:20:09   And I guess, I mean I did a lot of research

00:20:12   and reviews of them, I guess there can be such a thing

00:20:15   as a bad one in terms of reflections

00:20:18   and how much light they let through

00:20:19   and just general sturdiness and reliability

00:20:22   and getting stuck on the lens and you know,

00:20:23   is there any-- - Yeah, well 'cause if you

00:20:24   think about it, like you're adding another layer of glass

00:20:27   and so there's a lot of different qualities

00:20:30   of optical glass and their coatings and their treatments

00:20:33   and whatever they're being held in by.

00:20:36   So it kind of makes sense when you think about it that way.

00:20:38   You're adding kind of like another lens in a way,

00:20:41   like another glass element.

00:20:44   And so there are lots of ways to make OK glass for OK prices.

00:20:49   But if you want really good glass

00:20:51   that your incredible camera sensor can see through it

00:20:54   with clarity and not have distortions or reflections

00:20:56   or whatever else, like, yeah, OK, that actually

00:20:58   could be a fairly high-end, precisely manufactured thing.

00:21:03   So was this by any chance just the B&W brand?

00:21:06   That's always what I bought.

00:21:07   - What did I get?

00:21:08   No, I think my polarizer was like Polartec or something,

00:21:11   and the Clear one, I forget the brand of the Clear one.

00:21:14   Like I was trying to price control on the Clear one.

00:21:17   - And was the Clear one technically a quote,

00:21:19   "UV and haze filter?"

00:21:21   - Yeah, they always say that they're UV filters

00:21:22   or whatever, and I can look up the brands,

00:21:25   and I'll put the links in the show notes,

00:21:27   but they were both over $100.

00:21:29   I think I brought lenses that were less expensive

00:21:31   than this polarizer.

00:21:32   - Yeah, I mean for like a BMW UV haze,

00:21:35   that's usually like 80 bucks,

00:21:36   and I think the polarizer's usually like a 150

00:21:37   or something like that, in that range.

00:21:39   It depends how big they are.

00:21:40   - They're expensive.

00:21:42   And the other kind of filter people mentioned in the chat

00:21:44   is a neutral density filter, an ND filter,

00:21:47   that's basically just to cut down on the amount of light

00:21:49   that's going into your camera.

00:21:51   In fact, some cinema cameras have ND filters

00:21:54   like inside the body that you can swap between.

00:21:56   it's such a common thing.

00:21:58   The main reason I thought the polarizer would be useful,

00:21:59   as I said, if you're taking pictures of people

00:22:01   in the waves at the ocean on a sunny day,

00:22:03   there's lots of glare off the water in the ocean, right?

00:22:06   You know, especially like the tips of waves,

00:22:08   and you know, there are lots of curling water shapes

00:22:11   that are going to potentially reflect a lot of water

00:22:13   into the camera lens.

00:22:14   Now, those reflections, it's not like they're necessarily

00:22:19   bad, it really depends on what you're going for.

00:22:21   So if you look at a lot of the sort of tutorials

00:22:22   about polarizing filters, they show a lot of things

00:22:24   with like landscape photography, let's say.

00:22:25   Let's say you're taking a picture of this river

00:22:29   and the mountains in the background.

00:22:32   And all you're getting, all you can see in the river,

00:22:34   because it's very still, is just a reflection of the sky.

00:22:36   But if you put a polarizing filter,

00:22:37   now you can actually see the river

00:22:39   and the ripples in the water and the stones in it.

00:22:41   And that's kind of an artistic choice,

00:22:42   'cause maybe I want the reflection of the sky.

00:22:45   Maybe, that's not something I want to cut out,

00:22:47   but if you're trying to, for example,

00:22:49   take a picture of the clear river

00:22:50   showing the stones under the water,

00:22:53   and all you can see is reflection,

00:22:54   you don't see a single stone,

00:22:55   that's where you want a polarizer

00:22:57   that's hopefully gonna knock down that reflection.

00:22:59   I think the idea is that like,

00:23:01   when sunlight reflects off of like a surface,

00:23:04   like a flat reflective surface of the water,

00:23:06   that aligns the light waves in such a way

00:23:09   that the polarizer can knock them out,

00:23:10   versus sunlight that is just scattering randomly

00:23:12   or coming from the sun,

00:23:13   the polarizer is not gonna cut that out, right?

00:23:15   So the upshot is I took all of my,

00:23:18   pretty much all of my beach pictures with the long lens

00:23:21   with the polarizer on it.

00:23:23   And it was serving multiple purposes.

00:23:24   It was also protecting my long lens,

00:23:26   which is also kind of expensive.

00:23:28   It was preventing water spray from getting up inside

00:23:31   and onto my lens, right?

00:23:32   And it was, in theory, cutting down glare and stuff.

00:23:36   I have to say, after the entire vacation of taking pictures,

00:23:39   it's hard for me to tell, to look at a picture and say,

00:23:42   "Oh, I can tell how the polarizer helped this picture

00:23:45   because if I hadn't had it, I would have seen X, Y, or Z."

00:23:47   'Cause it's hard to see the reflections that aren't there

00:23:49   that would be, because there's plenty of other reflections.

00:23:52   It's not like it gets rid of them entirely.

00:23:53   For example, when I was looking at my shiny car,

00:23:56   there was still reflections on the car,

00:23:58   but by twisting the polarizer, I could see,

00:24:00   oh, it's knocking down these reflections.

00:24:02   And you'd see those highlights go away

00:24:04   and then they come back,

00:24:05   and those highlights go away and come back.

00:24:06   But there were other reflections in the car

00:24:08   that it didn't knock down.

00:24:09   It was just sort of like the big reflections

00:24:11   from the sun bouncing off it or whatever.

00:24:12   So the main reason I went through all this

00:24:15   is just to ask both of you

00:24:17   if you have ever used polarizers or lens protectors

00:24:20   or what you think about this entire concept.

00:24:24   Is it something that, I mean, the protection thing,

00:24:26   I don't think I need to pay any attention.

00:24:28   It's like, look, if you want to spend 100 bucks

00:24:29   to prevent something from damaging your umpteen thousand

00:24:31   dollar lens, then do it, and whatever cost you have to pay

00:24:34   in light that you're blocking, like whatever.

00:24:36   But the polarizer, I'm less sure about.

00:24:39   So it sounds like, Marco, you've had some experience

00:24:42   with this, do you actually use these things,

00:24:43   or do you have them but never actually put them

00:24:45   on your cameras?

00:24:46   - I used to use them, but a polarization filter,

00:24:49   It's like polarized sunglasses.

00:24:51   As you said, it can look really good.

00:24:53   It also comes with the cost of reduced light going in,

00:24:55   which means the other parts of image quality will suffer

00:24:58   as a result of less light.

00:25:00   Usually I'm not willing to make that trade-off.

00:25:02   The times that I would want it were few and far between,

00:25:06   whereas the times that I would not want it

00:25:09   were almost every other time,

00:25:11   and so I would just leave it off the lens,

00:25:12   and eventually we would just forget about it.

00:25:14   - I mean, I guess because I didn't dislike it,

00:25:16   and most of the time there is more than enough light

00:25:19   on a sunny day at the beach that is not, you know, it's not my problem that I don't have

00:25:22   enough light in that situation.

00:25:23   I'll probably stick to the polarizer.

00:25:24   I mean, it's still on my lens right now.

00:25:27   Same thing with the thing protecting my expensive lens, because now it's kind of like a security

00:25:30   blanket of like, you know, it might scratch it over because my favorite lens, my favorite,

00:25:34   my old favorite APS-C 50 millimeter prime, I do have a tiny scratch on that lens.

00:25:38   I have no idea how it got there, but it bothers me.

00:25:41   And I definitely can't see this filter made any bad effects on my, the clear one made

00:25:47   any bad effects on the pictures stuck with that camera. So I'm not sure what to do, but

00:25:50   I didn't know if you have any opinions on polarizers or filters.

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00:27:49   I have a couple of quick pieces of follow-up.

00:27:52   First of all, Johannes Zander wrote in with regard to the calibration of rock band instruments.

00:27:58   So if you're not familiar, rock band was either an offshoot or a clone of Guitar Hero, and

00:28:04   both of these games were super popular.

00:28:05   I want to say in the early aughts maybe.

00:28:08   - 2006, 2007.

00:28:09   - Okay, so mid-aughts.

00:28:13   So these were rhythm games where you played something

00:28:16   that vaguely looks like a guitar or something

00:28:20   that's kind of like a drum or a bass or what have you.

00:28:23   And there was a microphone and you would play along

00:28:26   with things that were falling,

00:28:28   like little symbols falling down the screen,

00:28:30   kind of sort of like Dance Dance Revolution.

00:28:33   And they were super fun, or at least I always thought

00:28:35   They were super duper fun.

00:28:36   - They were super fun. - It's rock band.

00:28:37   Okay, good, I'm glad I'm not--

00:28:38   - No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

00:28:39   Rock band was awesome, Guitar Hero was awesome,

00:28:42   and I miss these games, they were super fun.

00:28:44   - Same, yeah, they were super great party games.

00:28:46   - You get this big plastic band going,

00:28:48   and it takes up your entire closet

00:28:49   when you're not playing it.

00:28:50   - Yep, it was a lot of fun.

00:28:52   And the problem with this, though, is it's a rhythm game,

00:28:55   and it's based on you reacting.

00:28:56   Like, your ability to do well is based on you reacting

00:29:00   quickly to what's happening on screen,

00:29:01   and hitting, you know, quote, unquote, strumming,

00:29:04   which really means hitting a button or, you know,

00:29:06   hitting the drum at the right moment.

00:29:09   And that means you really need to have

00:29:11   everything calibrated correctly.

00:29:12   You need to have the instrument and the system

00:29:15   that it's attached to know when you should be hitting

00:29:19   the button to compare that against

00:29:21   when you did hit the button.

00:29:23   And I was reminded via this video

00:29:25   that we'll put in the show notes,

00:29:27   that the way that Rock Band got around this

00:29:29   was they had a little camera, or at least a light sensor,

00:29:32   I guess it wasn't really a full on camera,

00:29:34   a light sensor on the guitar,

00:29:37   and also a microphone on the guitar,

00:29:40   and there was two different kinds of calibration

00:29:41   you could do, one where it would play beeps repeatedly,

00:29:45   and it would measure how long it took

00:29:47   for that beep to reach the guitar,

00:29:48   and presumably get all the way back

00:29:50   to the PlayStation or Wii or what have you,

00:29:52   and then a different mode

00:29:53   where it would flash the screen white,

00:29:55   and it would detect how long it took

00:29:57   for the guitar to see the screen turn white.

00:29:59   And so it calibrated itself,

00:30:01   and I guess what I'm saying in a roundabout way

00:30:03   is John, if you would like to properly calibrate your TV,

00:30:07   you just need to bust out Rockband

00:30:08   and have it tell you the millisecond delay

00:30:11   for your television setup.

00:30:12   - I mean, that's the type of thing that I was looking for,

00:30:15   some way to do automatic calibration

00:30:16   with like an iPhone app or whatever,

00:30:18   but like I said last time,

00:30:20   in this type of tool chain of measuring delay,

00:30:25   when the possible effect of the instruments you're using

00:30:29   is a large percentage of the delay

00:30:33   that you're gonna be dialing in,

00:30:34   it can really mess things up.

00:30:35   So for example, last time we were talking about an iOS app

00:30:37   that said, oh, well the iPhone itself induces

00:30:39   X amount of delay, so you just have to kinda hard code that

00:30:41   by looking up this table of things that I measure

00:30:44   with some other equipment, right?

00:30:46   And that was a pretty big percentage

00:30:47   of the total adjustment, so if you get that wrong,

00:30:50   who knows what you could be doing, right?

00:30:51   So with the Rockband things, how much delay is introduced

00:30:54   by the game or the controller or the sensor?

00:30:57   Obviously, Rockband is calibrating itself to itself,

00:31:00   So it's probably fine because it knows what it's doing within its context, but if I calibrated

00:31:06   with a rock band thing, would that be correctly calibrated for watching video on Apple TV?

00:31:12   Especially if the TV is in game mode, which may have different latency values for the

00:31:17   television itself than the mode you watch movies in or whatever.

00:31:21   So really I just wish this was built into the television.

00:31:24   And if they have to use a phone app or whatever to do it, that would be great.

00:31:27   But the real way to do any of these things is with actual calibration equipment.

00:31:32   And when TV reviewers measure the input lag on televisions, they're using equipment kind

00:31:37   of like this, not Rockband, but similar like a light sensor and stuff like that.

00:31:40   And even in that scenario, there are lots of different choices TV reviewers can make

00:31:43   about what they're measuring and how they measure it and what number they're putting

00:31:48   out.

00:31:49   They just have to be internally consistent to let you know, "Hey, this TV has less lag

00:31:51   than this TV."

00:31:52   But the absolute values can be affected by how and what they choose to measure.

00:31:57   so it's trickier than you might think.

00:31:59   I'm just trying to get lip sync right.

00:32:00   Like I'm not, I don't need the,

00:32:03   I don't even game on this TV,

00:32:04   so I don't need the ultimate lowest possible lag,

00:32:06   and I was never any good at rock bands, so.

00:32:09   - It would be kind of funny if they actually did

00:32:11   use rock band for this purpose,

00:32:13   and there was like this black market,

00:32:15   like people like keeping Xbox 360s alive

00:32:17   with these old copies of rock band,

00:32:19   just for this purpose in this specialized industry

00:32:21   of calibration.

00:32:22   - That would be amazing.

00:32:23   - Real calibration equipment actually costs

00:32:25   even more than the very expensive plastic instruments

00:32:28   that they would sell for those games.

00:32:30   - It was expensive, but man was it fun.

00:32:32   - So fun.

00:32:33   - All right, it is the week before the new iPhone,

00:32:38   or at least that's what we are to assume.

00:32:40   As we discussed last week, we got press invites to watch it.

00:32:44   None of us, as of the time of this recording,

00:32:47   have been invited to watch it in person.

00:32:49   We were simply invited to watch the livestream.

00:32:51   But it is about that time,

00:32:53   and we need to do the genuinely excellent idea

00:32:57   Marco came up with a few years back,

00:32:59   which is the iPhone 13 and watch series seven exit interviews.

00:33:03   Now-- - Step inside, close the door.

00:33:05   - Yeah, right?

00:33:07   I love that you can actually say that

00:33:08   because you've probably never had an exit interview

00:33:10   in your life, have you?

00:33:10   - No. - But see, there you go.

00:33:12   But that was well done.

00:33:13   All right, I do not have a series seven in the house,

00:33:16   so I have literally nothing to say about it.

00:33:18   - I've never worked at a place where my boss had an office

00:33:21   with a door that closed.

00:33:23   - Ah, fair, fair.

00:33:24   I have on and off, but not always.

00:33:28   I do not have a Series 7 in the house,

00:33:29   so I have nothing to say about it.

00:33:30   Jon, does Tina have a Series 7?

00:33:33   I don't recall.

00:33:34   - Yeah, I'm pretty sure she does.

00:33:35   I think she just got it because she was going for a five,

00:33:39   and it was like, I think we talked about this before,

00:33:41   but I haven't heard anything bad about it,

00:33:44   so I think that's a good sign.

00:33:45   She's a dedicated Apple watch user.

00:33:48   She wears it every single day.

00:33:49   She has many, many watch bands, and she likes it,

00:33:51   which is why she keeps getting new ones,

00:33:52   and the fact that I haven't heard anything about this one

00:33:54   means it's probably pretty much doing its job.

00:33:56   The only thing I can recall recently is that she still,

00:33:59   she still doesn't seem to have a lot of faith

00:34:01   in the cellular functionality.

00:34:04   In other words, she always says, she says,

00:34:06   I don't rely on it.

00:34:06   Like if it works and it's there, that's a great bonus,

00:34:09   but she always makes sure she has her phone.

00:34:11   I don't think that's the fault of the watch.

00:34:12   Although I do think it is.

00:34:14   There may be something to the idea that the transmit power

00:34:17   of the cell radio inside Apple watches

00:34:21   is less than that of a phone

00:34:23   just because the battery is so much smaller,

00:34:25   but I'm not sure if that's actually true.

00:34:27   All I know is that she does not believe in it.

00:34:29   Doesn't believe it is as reliable as her phone

00:34:33   when it comes to cell reception.

00:34:35   But she tends, like I said, she tends not to use it

00:34:37   like you have sometimes Casey where you say,

00:34:39   "I can leave my phone, I don't need it, I've got the watch.

00:34:41   "I can do everything I need."

00:34:42   That's not how she uses her watch.

00:34:44   - Well, and I haven't done that in years.

00:34:46   In fact, when I did my switch from AT&T to Verizon,

00:34:49   I decided to change my Apple Watch

00:34:53   from having cellular service.

00:34:54   Like obviously the hardware still is capable of it,

00:34:57   but what I ended up doing was deciding

00:34:58   I'd rather put that money toward my iPad

00:35:00   and give my iPad cellular service,

00:35:02   which I think I pretty vastly prefer.

00:35:06   Part of that is because I don't really run anymore.

00:35:08   Like I was a semi-avid runner

00:35:11   and I would leave my phone at home

00:35:13   and I would run with just my watch and my AirPods,

00:35:15   which is amazing and I love it,

00:35:18   but I just got away from running

00:35:19   and it seems silly to pay the $15 a month after taxes

00:35:22   or whatever it is for something that I used almost never.

00:35:25   And obviously everyone's mileage may vary,

00:35:28   but for me, I think that money is much better spent

00:35:31   on my iPad.

00:35:32   And so I do plan, 'cause I'm on a Series 6,

00:35:35   I do plan on Aaron and I getting new watches this year

00:35:38   and my current intention as I sit here now

00:35:40   is for the first time since I think the cellular watch

00:35:44   was a thing, my intention is to not get a cellular watch

00:35:48   this year and to just get a regular watch,

00:35:50   a non-cellular WiFi only, and WiFi and Bluetooth only one.

00:35:53   - Yeah, and I think I've seen,

00:35:54   I know I've seen her look at her messages,

00:35:57   like text messages on her watch,

00:35:58   so she has been offloading more of her phone functionality,

00:36:02   and I'd say this is relevant to the Series 7

00:36:04   because the main feature it had over the 6

00:36:06   was the screen was a little bit bigger,

00:36:08   which, you know, oh, it's bigger by a tiny amount,

00:36:11   but when the screen space is so small to begin with,

00:36:13   every little bit helps, and so I've seen her

00:36:16   look at messages, and I know sometimes

00:36:18   when she's been out, when I send a message,

00:36:20   she gets it on her watch and she replies on her watch,

00:36:22   I think, I'm not sure if she's using

00:36:23   the graffiti scribble thing with her finger,

00:36:25   if she's using voice or whatever,

00:36:26   but I've seen her reply to things on her watch as well,

00:36:29   and I feel like that is slightly more likely to happen

00:36:32   with the slightly bigger screen on the Series 7.

00:36:34   So I would say the 7 was a boring year

00:36:37   where the watch just got a little bit better in a few ways,

00:36:40   but that's fine.

00:36:42   And again, with her upgrading from a 5, thumbs up.

00:36:46   - Yeah, when the 7 came out, it seemed like a very,

00:36:49   very small upgrade because the highlights basically were

00:36:53   it supported faster charging with its new special USB-C cable

00:36:56   that's different from the USB-C cable they've sold for years

00:36:59   that was like one foot long for travel.

00:37:01   So it's like if you happen to have this one special cable

00:37:03   that came with it, it could charge faster,

00:37:05   which is useful if you wear it overnight or something.

00:37:08   So there was that and the screen got a little bit bigger

00:37:11   and a little bit brighter.

00:37:13   But I came to appreciate it more

00:37:16   because I've kept my six around

00:37:17   for development testing and stuff,

00:37:19   and I've occasionally had to wear the six

00:37:21   for a whole day for some reason or another,

00:37:24   and I really do appreciate the seven's benefit.

00:37:28   When you go back, when you've been using a seven,

00:37:32   you go back to the six,

00:37:33   you realize how much of an upgrade it actually was.

00:37:35   It actually was pretty good.

00:37:37   It wasn't as big as some of the earlier years

00:37:39   where they changed more things.

00:37:41   It still has the same processor, I think,

00:37:42   for the second or third year in a row,

00:37:45   So it hasn't gotten faster recently,

00:37:47   but it's pretty much fast enough for now.

00:37:50   But the bigger and brighter screen, you really do notice.

00:37:54   And especially as Rama was saying,

00:37:56   you get a couple more words of text.

00:37:58   And I wear the small size, the 41 millimeter now,

00:38:02   having the smaller screen in the first place,

00:38:05   that little bit more really does help.

00:38:06   You really do get a little bit more space.

00:38:08   This was the first size watch that I wore

00:38:11   that was able to have the onscreen keyboard.

00:38:13   And I've only had to use it like two or three times

00:38:16   in the year I've been wearing this.

00:38:19   But I was glad it was there those two or three times.

00:38:21   Like one of them I had to type in my Apple ID password.

00:38:23   And I can't imagine having to do that like any other,

00:38:26   like with the scribble or whatever else,

00:38:27   like that would be terrible.

00:38:28   It was bad enough on the keyboard.

00:38:31   So anyway, I've actually really enjoyed the Series 7.

00:38:33   And this is the first year that I tried the titanium

00:38:38   as the metal.

00:38:39   I gotta say I'm totally converted.

00:38:41   I love the titanium.

00:38:43   It's really nice.

00:38:45   So I've been a silver steel person

00:38:49   for years and years and years.

00:38:51   And I still love the look of the silver steel.

00:38:54   But this year, I was tired of buying the same watch

00:38:57   every time, basically.

00:38:59   And so I was like, just for variety, let me try titanium.

00:39:01   Everyone says it's really nice.

00:39:03   Let me see it.

00:39:04   And I love how much lighter it is.

00:39:08   I love a light watch.

00:39:09   In the regular watch world,

00:39:12   I mean, most regular watches are lighter than the Apple Watch

00:39:14   because they don't have batteries,

00:39:16   giant lithium batteries taking up most of their volume.

00:39:19   But still, in the regular watch world,

00:39:21   they also have titanium watches there,

00:39:23   and the Apple Watch is not as light as them

00:39:25   because, again, the battery.

00:39:27   But I love a light watch.

00:39:29   It's so delightful feeling to have this light thing

00:39:32   on your wrist that you can barely even tell it's there.

00:39:34   - Did you get the space black titanium

00:39:36   or the regular titanium?

00:39:37   - No, I got the silver titanium,

00:39:39   which I think looks better, personally.

00:39:41   The Space Blast Titanium I think is so close

00:39:45   to the black or near black aluminum colors

00:39:49   that it's, I don't think that's really worth it

00:39:51   in my opinion, but that's up to other people.

00:39:54   I don't care what you buy.

00:39:56   Anyway, but yeah, it has a very different finish.

00:39:58   Like where the aluminum is kind of bead blast or whatever,

00:40:01   so it's this kind of diffuse, like staticky finish.

00:40:04   The titanium is brushed in one direction,

00:40:09   like long ways on the sides.

00:40:11   And it just, it looks really nice.

00:40:13   It has a wonderful way it plays with the light.

00:40:15   And it is like a little bit more subtle

00:40:18   and frankly looks a little bit more high end

00:40:21   than the polished stainless steel.

00:40:23   And that surprised me,

00:40:24   'cause I love the stainless steel look,

00:40:26   but I love the titanium even more.

00:40:28   And that's why I was actually,

00:40:29   I'm actually kind of disappointed that

00:40:31   the rumors, which we'll get to in a little bit,

00:40:33   are kind of unclear as to whether there will be

00:40:35   a titanium small watch.

00:40:38   (laughs)

00:40:39   But well, I hope there is,

00:40:40   'cause I've really come to enjoy it.

00:40:42   But anyway, I've been very happy with this watch,

00:40:45   and I keep using it more and more,

00:40:48   like as time is going on, I'm wearing mechanicals less,

00:40:52   and I'm wearing the Apple Watch more,

00:40:54   as the Apple Watch gets better.

00:40:56   And so I expect that trend to continue this coming year,

00:40:59   but the Series 7, honestly, I'm at the point where,

00:41:02   I say this during a lot of the exit interviews,

00:41:04   where I'm like, we're like,

00:41:06   I actually don't know what I would change about this.

00:41:09   And I'm sure Apple will show us next week

00:41:10   why I absolutely must have to have the new thing.

00:41:14   But right now, as it stands now,

00:41:16   I'm not sure what I would change

00:41:17   besides software things.

00:41:19   I would love to, I have tons of software tweets

00:41:22   I could suggest, but hardware-wise,

00:41:25   it's pretty nice already.

00:41:27   - Apple could easily make you buy this

00:41:29   by just making it a lot thinner.

00:41:30   I don't think they will 'cause they need the battery,

00:41:32   but that's the, 'cause Apple Watch,

00:41:35   unlike many of Apple's other products,

00:41:37   has not been on a trajectory of getting thinner.

00:41:39   In fact, I think the Series Zero is still the thinnest one

00:41:41   that they ever sold, maybe.

00:41:43   So if and when we get to a point where there's

00:41:47   some kind of technological advancement that

00:41:49   allows a significant decrease in thickness,

00:41:52   that is the obvious next step.

00:41:54   Because the Apple Watch is as thick as it is not based

00:41:56   on style, because plenty of watches

00:41:58   are big and chunky as a style choice.

00:42:00   It's as thin as it is, because that's

00:42:02   as thin as they can possibly make it while still having

00:42:05   good battery life and I don't think they want to sacrifice battery life to keep trying to make it

00:42:10   thinner. In fact, they've made it thicker over time. So I don't think they're going to make

00:42:15   the series eight really thinner, but that would do it. If they, if they had one that was like

00:42:19   half the thickness and styled to be thin like that, you would buy it immediately.

00:42:22   Well, maybe. So they, it got the thickest one, I believe is still the series three.

00:42:27   It went up in thickness up to three and then with four, they kind of cut it back down. And I, I

00:42:31   I think we're still below what the three was.

00:42:34   But regardless, the way it's styled

00:42:37   and the way it sets off the wrist

00:42:38   with the little sensor bump,

00:42:39   I think it actually is basically thin enough.

00:42:42   Right now it looks, I mean, I don't know

00:42:44   how the numbers in front of me,

00:42:44   but the body without the little puck on the bottom

00:42:47   looks to be somewhere in the 11 or 12 millimeter

00:42:50   thickness range, and for watches of this size,

00:42:52   that's very, very common.

00:42:54   It isn't an ultra-thin watch,

00:42:57   but this is not a thick watch.

00:42:58   When you compare it to other mechanicals

00:43:00   similar size classes, it's not a thick watch anymore. The series three was was too thick,

00:43:04   but the the modern ones are not in my opinion. And so I don't I don't think they really need

00:43:11   to go thinner. So I mean, overall, like again, like I think the series seven, I think it's a

00:43:16   very good watch. And I'm, you know, the only thing that I wish for, again, are software things or,

00:43:23   you know, more sensors, as Apple is rumored to add. And that's, you know, that might get me

00:43:28   because that's one of the reasons why I wear it so much

00:43:31   is health sensors.

00:43:33   I really appreciate that.

00:43:35   As I'm pretty solidly middle-aged now,

00:43:38   and I love, when I had COVID a few weeks back,

00:43:42   I loved that I had a history of my oxygen levels.

00:43:45   And so I could make sure that things were staying

00:43:49   within healthy ranges and not changing.

00:43:51   Thanks, Apple.

00:43:54   It even alerted me after I was locked in my house

00:43:58   for a few days, it alerted me that my step count

00:44:03   and calorie burns were down compared to usual.

00:44:06   And first of all, I was kind of like,

00:44:08   screw you, I have COVID, I can't leave my house.

00:44:12   But also, I was like, I'm actually glad that it noticed.

00:44:15   Like it gave me, the health app on my phone

00:44:18   gave me a notification saying like,

00:44:20   hey, we detected a change in your pattern.

00:44:22   And then it's a wonderful euphemism.

00:44:24   You go in and see what the change is

00:44:25   and it's like this huge drop off in my activity.

00:44:28   And I'm like, oh God, like, you know, thanks.

00:44:31   You know, I don't feel good about this,

00:44:33   but I at least know why.

00:44:34   And I'm glad that was there for me.

00:44:36   The day before I tested positive,

00:44:39   I didn't feel super great,

00:44:41   and I got the high heart rate alert for the very first time

00:44:43   that's like, hey, your heart rate's a bit high

00:44:45   considering you don't seem to be moving.

00:44:48   And you know, at the time I just kind of wrote it off as,

00:44:50   well, you know, maybe my watch is having a false alarm,

00:44:52   but I had never seen that happen.

00:44:55   I've never gotten that as a false alarm.

00:44:57   So I thought like something was probably not wrong with me

00:45:00   and it was just weird,

00:45:01   but I was feeling really tired that day.

00:45:03   Like, and then, and sure enough,

00:45:05   the next morning I test positive

00:45:06   and I actually had COVID that, you know,

00:45:07   for, you know, that was festering during that time.

00:45:09   So something was off.

00:45:11   So it actually did work.

00:45:13   And so, you know,

00:45:14   I really appreciate the Apple Watch health sensors.

00:45:16   And so if the rumors are true

00:45:17   that they're gonna add maybe a body temperature,

00:45:20   you know, sensor to detect fluctuations

00:45:22   in your body temperature or, you know, abnormalities,

00:45:24   Like, that's really good to know.

00:45:25   That's useful information.

00:45:27   Ideally, I would love, you know,

00:45:28   in the future, I know they've been working for a long time,

00:45:32   as many companies have, for a through the skin

00:45:35   blood glucose monitoring method.

00:45:37   That's obviously massive for diabetics,

00:45:39   but even for non-diabetics,

00:45:42   to be able to track your blood glucose throughout the day

00:45:43   would be incredible and would open up all sorts of new

00:45:46   avenues for health monitoring and management.

00:45:49   So if they ever get that, that would be a game changer.

00:45:52   But even if they stay with simpler stuff

00:45:54   like body temperature and blood oxygen,

00:45:56   I still get value out of that.

00:45:58   And so whatever they can do to add more sensors

00:46:01   and more health monitoring and more proactive alerts

00:46:03   of things being off, I am all for that,

00:46:06   especially as I inevitably get older.

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00:48:12   - All right, so let's talk iPhone 13 Pro.

00:48:18   Now, Jon, remind me, you are on the 12 Pro,

00:48:21   or you're on the 12 Pro this year, right?

00:48:23   - 12 Pro, and my wife has a 13 Pro.

00:48:26   - Okay, do you want to channel your inner Tina

00:48:28   and tell me what you/she thinks about the 13?

00:48:31   - Yeah, so, I mean, again, she hasn't really had

00:48:33   any complaints about her phone for the most part.

00:48:35   Her main complaint was the MagSafe battery pack

00:48:40   is not as good for her uses as the old thing

00:48:43   where you'd get a battery case from Apple

00:48:46   that would only work with your phone.

00:48:47   We talked about this back when this product came out.

00:48:50   The good thing about the battery pack is in theory you can reuse it on your next phone,

00:48:53   which has generally not been true of Apple's battery cases, but the bad thing is that it

00:48:57   is easy to knock off your phone, it's smaller, has lower capacity, and it's just generally

00:49:01   more annoying than just a very snug fitting battery case.

00:49:05   And how does she destroy her battery?

00:49:07   With Pokemon Go, which she plays a lot, and that game totally mauls the battery on the

00:49:12   phone.

00:49:13   I feel like there's special features that have been added to that game to destroy your

00:49:16   Is it doing Bitcoin mining? I don't know, but boy does that game destroy your battery.

00:49:21   So can I can I interrupt please? I have been playing just a teeny bit of Pokemon Go in the support of Declan

00:49:26   who has also been playing a teeny bit of Pokemon Go. Don't worry about it, long story.

00:49:30   But suffice it to say that game, the rumors of how bad it destroys your battery are complete BS.

00:49:37   It is so much worse than people say. Now granted, I did put the beta on not too long after I started playing Pokemon Go.

00:49:46   so maybe I'm misattributing my battery loss, but oh my gosh, it is a battery murderer.

00:49:54   It deserves like a capital punishment for battery murder.

00:49:58   It's ridiculous how bad that game utterly destroys your battery.

00:50:03   And it is no wonder that people probably like Tina have like two in three battery packs

00:50:07   or are carrying around like a laptop sized battery pack with a cable attached to it.

00:50:12   Oh my word, is it bad.

00:50:14   What is it doing back there?

00:50:16   - Well, think about it.

00:50:17   It's using GPS and the camera,

00:50:20   and you're watching the screen the whole time,

00:50:22   and it's doing AR projection, and yeah, and a 3D.

00:50:25   It's basically spending as much computing power

00:50:27   using as many of the device's high power methods as possible.

00:50:32   - It's bananas.

00:50:33   Like, I cannot believe it.

00:50:35   - Yeah, this is why my wife's purse weighs so much,

00:50:37   'cause it's filled with, well,

00:50:38   it's filled with like 4R phones,

00:50:40   because she pays them multiple accounts,

00:50:42   'cause it's like the people who play multiple slot machines

00:50:44   at once in Vegas, right?

00:50:45   - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. - Anyway.

00:50:46   And also, all of the power pack, battery pack,

00:50:50   lithium ion batteries that she's got in there,

00:50:52   on top of, like she used to have her main phone

00:50:54   inside a battery case, now she has the little MagSafe,

00:50:56   and she has the MagSafe thing in her car,

00:50:58   so when it's on the MagSafe car mount in her car,

00:51:01   it's also charging, but she also has wired connectors

00:51:03   in her car, just, this is a constant battery.

00:51:05   But anyway, so that was her only real complaint

00:51:07   about the 13 was the little, the smaller battery thing

00:51:11   that comes off real easy is not as good as a battery case.

00:51:14   But otherwise, she's been mostly fine with it.

00:51:16   I don't use her phone, but I occasionally do pick it up

00:51:19   to do something with it or take a picture.

00:51:21   'Cause if both of our phones are around,

00:51:24   I usually wanna take a picture with her thing

00:51:25   'cause her camera's better than mine.

00:51:27   'Cause I got the 12 Pro,

00:51:28   so I use her phone to take pictures or whatever.

00:51:31   And obviously I haven't been using it

00:51:33   for the year that she's had it,

00:51:34   but I have picked it up a lot of times

00:51:36   and I've never gotten used to the giant camera bump

00:51:39   and the case that highlights the giant camera bump.

00:51:42   I've never gotten used to the way her phone sits on the table

00:51:45   because it is elevated from the,

00:51:46   she's got an Apple leather case, I believe on it.

00:51:49   It doesn't sit on the table evenly.

00:51:50   And when I pick it up and use it,

00:51:52   my finger hits the little, you know,

00:51:54   the wall that's around the camera bump.

00:51:56   And so that's my main complaint about 13 Pro.

00:51:58   I feel like the camera has crossed a line

00:52:01   where it is bothersome to me,

00:52:02   which does not bode well for the 14 Pro,

00:52:04   which I'm supposedly getting this year,

00:52:06   which as we'll talk about in a little bit,

00:52:07   is supposed to have an even bigger camera bump,

00:52:10   but I guess that's just the price

00:52:11   of whatever cool camera it's gonna have.

00:52:13   So as far as I'm concerned,

00:52:14   13 Pro has been perfectly satisfactory

00:52:17   other than the battery case issue,

00:52:19   which is not a thing for me, but it's a thing for my wife,

00:52:21   and the camera being a little bit too big.

00:52:24   - What about ProMotion, the fast refresh rate?

00:52:26   Do you notice it?

00:52:27   - Oh, I have a problem with ProMotion, right?

00:52:29   So we talked about it as when the 13 Pro came out,

00:52:31   I'm like, "I don't care about using my wife's phone.

00:52:33   "I don't care."

00:52:34   And I think I have ProMotion on my,

00:52:37   I have the latest iPad Pro, I believe,

00:52:39   You got the M1 iPad Pro, that's the latest one, right?

00:52:41   - Yes, I believe that's right.

00:52:43   - And that has ProMotion, right, the M1 iPad Pro?

00:52:45   - Yes, every iPad Pro except for the 9.7

00:52:49   and like the very first generation 9.7 and 12.9 didn't have

00:52:52   it, but starting from the 10.5, all the other ones did.

00:52:55   - Yeah, well, so anyway, I've had that M1 iPad Pro

00:52:57   since it was introduced and I use it pretty much

00:53:00   every single day and I was like,

00:53:01   "Ah, you know, ProMotion is not a big deal for me."

00:53:04   But in the past month or so, every time I pick up

00:53:07   my wife's iPhone 13 Pro, I see the ProMotion.

00:53:12   I don't know why I wasn't seeing it or noticing it before.

00:53:14   I mean, I can notice it every day, look for it,

00:53:15   but I've been unbidden, it has leapt to my mind.

00:53:18   I was like, whoa, that's so much smoother than my phone.

00:53:20   And it's bothersome.

00:53:21   I mean, so I guess I'm getting to the point

00:53:24   where phones without ProMotion seem a little bit

00:53:28   stuttery to me, and I don't want that.

00:53:31   Like I liked it better when I didn't care

00:53:33   about the difference, but now I feel like with the phone,

00:53:36   I kind of do, and every time I use our phone,

00:53:38   I'm like, oh, this makes my phone feel bad.

00:53:41   So I am, one of the things I'm looking forward to

00:53:44   on the 14 Pro is I will finally have a phone

00:53:46   with ProMotion, I endorse it.

00:53:48   - Yeah, it's a big deal.

00:53:50   Like, I have loved ProMotion, and it's one of those things

00:53:54   that I didn't think I was noticing after the first few days

00:53:58   until, I mentioned earlier this summer,

00:54:00   I did an experiment where I tried to use the Mini

00:54:02   for a few days, and I really noticed its absence.

00:54:05   in a way that I don't notice it on the Mac.

00:54:07   Like when I use a MacBook Pro with its built in screen,

00:54:10   the modern MacBook Pros have promotion.

00:54:12   When I use that, I don't really notice it there.

00:54:15   And then when I go back to my big Pro Display XDR

00:54:18   that doesn't support it, I don't notice the absence of it.

00:54:21   But on iPads and iPhones, I do instantly notice

00:54:25   its presence and later its absence.

00:54:27   And so it's been wonderful.

00:54:29   I've loved promotion.

00:54:31   I also, I love the cameras on this thing too.

00:54:33   like now that I guess I'm stealing a turn here.

00:54:35   (laughs)

00:54:36   I love the cameras on the 13 Pro.

00:54:40   The 3X, I'm not super crazy about the 3X lens.

00:54:45   The 1X and the wide, but especially the 1X

00:54:49   have just been fantastic.

00:54:51   I have enjoyed occasionally using the macro on the wide,

00:54:55   just for a little pragmatic reasons here and there,

00:54:58   like scanning, taking a picture of a tag

00:55:01   on the back of a router or something like that.

00:55:03   That's been wonderful, little day-to-day life things.

00:55:06   Again, when I went to the Mini that didn't support that,

00:55:11   I missed the macro mode.

00:55:12   I realized, oh, I actually used that.

00:55:15   The 3X lens I wish was both a better camera

00:55:21   and was not as zoomed in,

00:55:25   because where we have it now is you have nothing

00:55:29   between 1X and 3X hardware-wise.

00:55:33   And oftentimes, what I want is between those.

00:55:36   And so what has to happen then is it just crops

00:55:39   the image off the 1X, and that's fine, the 1X is great,

00:55:42   but that's not an amazing solution.

00:55:45   And the 3X camera, just like the 2.5 and 2X cameras

00:55:50   that came before it in previous models,

00:55:52   the 3X camera is not very good.

00:55:54   Optically, it's just not nearly as good as the 1X camera,

00:55:58   and you do notice and so I find myself

00:56:01   not using it that much.

00:56:03   As a combination of it not really being

00:56:06   the distance I often need and it being optically worse.

00:56:09   So I look forward to any improvements

00:56:11   they can make in those areas.

00:56:12   Whether they can cover a wider range in hardware

00:56:15   in some way and or whether they can improve

00:56:19   the optics of the telephoto camera.

00:56:21   But otherwise, 13 Pro feature wise,

00:56:25   you know, between the ProMotion and the macro camera

00:56:29   and the overall camera system,

00:56:31   it's been really, really great.

00:56:33   One thing I still wish for is this is very heavy.

00:56:38   I wish it was lighter.

00:56:40   It's a very dense phone in the pocket.

00:56:43   It's big and it's heavy.

00:56:45   And this is apparently going to be the smallest phone

00:56:48   they're gonna make starting next week.

00:56:51   That I hope, and I know the rumors are not backing me up

00:56:55   here at all with anything useful here,

00:56:56   but I hope that future iPhones that are of this slot

00:57:01   in the lineup, meaning the smallest phone

00:57:04   with all the pro features, I hope they find a way

00:57:07   to make them lighter, whether it's changing out

00:57:10   the stainless steel band or whatever, or other changes,

00:57:14   who knows what they could do with materials, whatever,

00:57:16   but it's a very heavy phone, so that being said,

00:57:20   one of the biggest contributions to weight is the battery,

00:57:23   And the battery life's been great.

00:57:25   I've been very pleased with the battery life.

00:57:27   You know, even during this beta season

00:57:29   where beta battery life has been pretty rough,

00:57:31   I had a lot to start with and that has helped a lot.

00:57:34   So I'm very happy with the performance, the battery,

00:57:38   you know, the screen, the cameras, all that stuff is great.

00:57:41   I just wish it was lighter.

00:57:44   And maybe, I might go a little smaller on the body too,

00:57:47   but hey, you know, it's a big screen,

00:57:48   it's beautiful, whatever.

00:57:49   So just lighter is my number one request for future phones.

00:57:52   But overall, this has been a great phone.

00:57:55   I don't leave it in haste.

00:57:58   This is a wonderful phone,

00:57:59   and if I had to keep using it forever,

00:58:01   and nothing else ever came out that was better than it,

00:58:03   I'd be fine.

00:58:04   But fortunately, that's not how things work,

00:58:06   so we're gonna have amazing things next week.

00:58:08   (laughing)

00:58:09   - Yeah, for me, the 120 hertz,

00:58:12   I noticed it a lot early on,

00:58:14   and now I do feel like I notice it,

00:58:17   but it doesn't, I think I misattribute what's happening.

00:58:21   So when I use an older phone,

00:58:24   I feel like I'm misattributing it

00:58:28   to the slowness of the phone

00:58:29   rather than the slowness of the screen.

00:58:31   Like, I just assume, "Oh, well, this phone is older,

00:58:33   so it's a little choppier and slower."

00:58:34   But it's not that.

00:58:36   It's that it's actually the screen is half as fast.

00:58:39   But I forget that that's a thing,

00:58:41   and so I think I often misattribute it in that sense,

00:58:44   especially since iOS is usually very, very good

00:58:47   about keeping pretty good performance,

00:58:49   even several models into the past. For me, all in all, I love the 13 Pro. I think it's

00:58:56   a phenomenal phone. This is the first phone in two years, I guess it was three phones

00:59:02   ago that I have not yet shattered, so that's good. Related, it's the first phone I've put

00:59:07   a case on in three years. So I'll let you decide if those are related events, I think

00:59:12   they might be. But with regard to cases, I was a huge fan of the Apple leather case,

00:59:18   the black Apple leather case, and at least at launch time,

00:59:21   I don't know if that's still the case,

00:59:23   there was no black Apple leather case.

00:59:26   And that is a super bummer.

00:59:29   Speaking like we were earlier, what Marco was saying about,

00:59:32   oh, I'll just throw in AppleCare,

00:59:33   oh, I'll just throw in this like $80 Apple case,

00:59:36   I would just add that in, not even think twice about it.

00:59:40   And now there are at least,

00:59:42   again, at the time of launch a year ago,

00:59:44   there was no black Apple leather case,

00:59:46   and I'm still a little grumpy about it,

00:59:47   especially 'cause this Nudiant case,

00:59:49   which the name is kind of bad to begin with,

00:59:50   it is not in good shape now.

00:59:53   Like it is not stood the test of time terribly well.

00:59:57   So I don't know if there isn't a black Apple leather case

00:59:59   next year or in a month, in a week even,

01:00:02   I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.

01:00:04   - Put in another plug for my, like, what was it,

01:00:06   like a $30 cheapo, what, Olixar iPhone 12 Pro

01:00:11   black leather case with an open bottom

01:00:14   that I bought when the 12 Pro was new.

01:00:16   I mean, it looks like it's been used,

01:00:19   but it's held up amazingly well, amazingly well.

01:00:21   For it, like, it's like less than half the price

01:00:23   of the Apple leather thing.

01:00:25   Open bottom, which is what I wanted, black leather case.

01:00:27   Good job, Olexar.

01:00:29   - Yeah, I'm gonna have to look into that for this next one

01:00:31   if Apple doesn't have a first party thing,

01:00:33   and maybe I'll just look into that regardless.

01:00:36   The thing that is really a bugbear,

01:00:38   and I'm grumpy about this

01:00:40   because I spent a lot of time outside this year,

01:00:42   Does San Francisco not have any weather?

01:00:46   I thought it had at least some amount of weather,

01:00:48   and I thought it at least occasionally,

01:00:51   I thought every once in a while Carl the fog went away

01:00:54   and there was this magical thing called sunlight

01:00:56   in San Francisco.

01:00:57   That does exist in San Francisco, does it not?

01:00:59   I'm pretty sure it does.

01:01:01   Because oh my gosh, can we please have a phone

01:01:05   that can be in sunlight for more than 45 seconds

01:01:09   before the screen dims?

01:01:09   Like it is, I'm being a little hyperbolic here,

01:01:12   But oh my gosh, I spent a lot of time

01:01:14   at the little community pool that we joined this year.

01:01:16   And my word, if you have this thing in the sun,

01:01:20   particularly if you're on cellular,

01:01:22   for more than a few seconds,

01:01:23   it thermal regulates that screen right down to nothingness.

01:01:26   And it is so frustrating and so hard to see.

01:01:29   My number one wish, I'm not even kidding,

01:01:33   my number one wish for the iPhone 14

01:01:36   is to do better in full sunlight.

01:01:38   I know I probably sound utterly bananas.

01:01:41   I totally accept that, but this is a legitimate thing that I swear to you is worse than this

01:01:46   phone than any of the phones that have come before it.

01:01:49   And it's bad on my iPad too.

01:01:51   Maybe that's because of age, maybe it's because of software, I don't know.

01:01:54   But do not like.

01:01:56   Anyway, that being said, I do like the fast screen.

01:01:59   Again, I don't want to belabor the ultra wideband park bench/picnic table, but that is pretty

01:02:05   freaking cool.

01:02:06   And I don't know if that was new with the 13 or new with the 12.

01:02:07   I tried to look this up earlier and couldn't figure it out.

01:02:10   but having a phone that's three times faster,

01:02:12   that's internet connection can occasionally

01:02:14   be three times faster than my home

01:02:15   gigabit internet connection, that's pretty cool.

01:02:18   I was trying to look up what else was new with this phone.

01:02:21   Tell me gentlemen, how many times

01:02:22   have you used cinematic mode?

01:02:24   - None.

01:02:25   - Exactly.

01:02:25   (laughs)

01:02:26   - Same here.

01:02:27   - I don't even use portrait mode.

01:02:29   That's a bad example for me because whatever

01:02:32   their trick photo mode of the year is,

01:02:36   I probably don't use it.

01:02:38   - Yeah, I actually do use portrait mode from time to time,

01:02:40   I think it's gotten to the point that it's acceptable now.

01:02:42   I wouldn't say it's good,

01:02:44   but I'd say it's at least acceptable.

01:02:46   But I think I used cinematic mode like once or twice

01:02:48   when it first was a thing,

01:02:50   and I haven't touched it since.

01:02:51   In fact, I don't even know if it's on.

01:02:52   I don't know how to turn it on.

01:02:54   I know nothing about it.

01:02:54   I've already forgotten everything.

01:02:55   - I've decided that I'm not actually a filmmaker.

01:02:59   - Yeah, exactly.

01:03:00   - I'm very happy admitting to myself

01:03:02   that that's just not me.

01:03:04   - Yep, yep.

01:03:05   - I do wonder who that feature is for

01:03:06   because people who are actual filmmakers

01:03:08   don't want it in the same way that people who are interested in photography don't want

01:03:12   portrait mode.

01:03:14   And then people who are casual, it's too complicated to think about what they showed people doing

01:03:18   in the demo videos of what I'm doing.

01:03:20   It's hard enough to hold your phone and try to keep your family in the frame as they're

01:03:23   moving around.

01:03:24   Can you imagine also, I know you can do this after the fact, but selecting who's going

01:03:28   to be in focus or whatever, people don't want to hold up their phone and record and be done

01:03:33   with it.

01:03:34   They don't want to spend any amount of time deciding who the phone focuses on and who

01:03:37   gets the fake blur.

01:03:39   - Yep, but all in all, as much as I whined a couple times

01:03:43   in the last few minutes, all in all,

01:03:46   I really love this phone.

01:03:47   I love the flat sides.

01:03:50   I wish I had the, or I wish I wasn't so much of a klutz

01:03:54   and that I could use it without a case,

01:03:55   'cause it does feel nice without a case.

01:03:57   It's a little slippier, more slippy than I wish,

01:03:59   but still it does feel nice.

01:04:00   I popped the case off a minute ago just to look.

01:04:02   I love this midnight blue,

01:04:04   or whatever this is called, Pacific blue.

01:04:06   You know, it would be neat to have a pro phone

01:04:08   with kind of vibrant colors.

01:04:10   Like, I would be so here for that.

01:04:11   Well, that's not even true.

01:04:12   I'd probably end up buying black

01:04:13   'cause I'm an idiot and I'm a loser,

01:04:14   but I would be here for the idea of it.

01:04:17   - No, you're just a nerd, Casey.

01:04:18   Nerds default to black, it's fine.

01:04:21   I've been there myself many times.

01:04:23   Like, I know how it works, but no, I'm with you.

01:04:25   The colors, oh god, just please

01:04:27   more personality in the colors.

01:04:29   - Please, that's a very good way to put it.

01:04:31   Please more personality in the colors.

01:04:33   That would be excellent.

01:04:34   But all in all, a really good phone.

01:04:36   I really think that if they did basically a little bit better

01:04:41   camera and, God help me, a little bit better

01:04:44   thermal regulation such that the screen wasn't dimming

01:04:47   constantly in sunlight, if they did those two things,

01:04:49   it would be an insta-buy for me.

01:04:51   And I'm sure whatever they say next week,

01:04:55   I'm not going to kid myself.

01:04:56   I'm going to get it.

01:04:57   It's just what I do now.

01:04:58   But I am really hopeful that they

01:05:02   improve the camera a little bit, not to say it's lacking,

01:05:04   but I hope they improve the camera,

01:05:06   I hope they do a little bit better with these thermals.

01:05:08   I don't feel like the phone is slow at this point,

01:05:11   like there's almost nothing I can think of

01:05:13   that I feel like I'm running out of horsepower

01:05:17   or RAM for that matter, so really just more of the same,

01:05:21   just give me more of it,

01:05:22   and I'll take that please and thank you.

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01:07:25   (upbeat music)

01:07:28   - That's potentially some good news for you.

01:07:30   Now we can move on to the rumors for the announcement

01:07:33   and spoil everything for next week's show.

01:07:35   - Yes, please.

01:07:36   - So iPhone 14, 14 Pro and 14 Pro Max,

01:07:41   we talked about this before,

01:07:42   the big change in the rumors this year is that

01:07:44   you will be able to get a big phone that's not a Pro.

01:07:46   So the 14 will come in big and small sizes

01:07:49   and the 14 Pro will come in big and small sizes.

01:07:51   There's no more mini.

01:07:52   That's this, I'm starting with the information

01:07:55   we pretty much know for sure.

01:07:58   I think that is, everyone agrees on that.

01:08:00   The pros having the A16 and the non-pros not having the A16

01:08:05   is another thing that has been heavily rumored

01:08:07   and seems pretty sure this year.

01:08:09   That's gonna be a bummer because the years when

01:08:12   both the pro and non-pro had the same system on a chip

01:08:14   were great, but it doesn't look like that's happening

01:08:17   for a variety of reasons.

01:08:18   Maybe it's cost, maybe it's yields on the new, you know,

01:08:21   five nanometer, extra good five nanometer process,

01:08:24   I always forget what it's called, 5NP or something,

01:08:26   whatever the hell TSMC calls it.

01:08:29   - Call it 5Pro Max.

01:08:30   - Yeah, although does the 815 use that process as well?

01:08:33   I don't even remember.

01:08:34   Anyway, A16 only on the Pros,

01:08:36   probably won't make a difference to you.

01:08:38   The other thing you mentioned RAM,

01:08:39   I think both the Pro and non-Pro are getting six gigs of RAM

01:08:42   and I think the non-Pro only had four last year,

01:08:44   is that true?

01:08:45   - Something like that.

01:08:46   - These are not things that most people notice, right?

01:08:47   So what does the Pro have to differentiate?

01:08:50   Well, the first thing is that it doesn't have a notch,

01:08:53   It has a different thing in its screen for where the face ID and front facing camera

01:08:59   stuff goes.

01:09:00   If you see the pictures of the screen pieces, it looks kind of like a sideways lowercase

01:09:04   eye.

01:09:05   It's like a lozenge and then a circular dot for the camera.

01:09:08   But the latest round of sort of late breaking rumors that we'll put some links to is that

01:09:12   sideways eye will have the gap between the stem on the eye and the dot on the eye.

01:09:20   Those screen pixels, although they exist, will be turned off.

01:09:22   So instead of looking like a sideways lowercase letter i, it will instead look like a sideways

01:09:27   lozenge that is disconnected from the top of the screen.

01:09:31   Now in total area, that whether it's a lozenge or a sideways lowercase letter i, that is

01:09:38   less total screen area that is removed.

01:09:41   You will have more pixels on the screen than you did even with the new smaller notch, right?

01:09:46   But in terms of how much those things intrude on the space available for lines of text or

01:09:53   lists or whatever, I'm not sure it's much of an improvement and it may actually be worse.

01:09:59   Because if you look at the pictures, it's almost as if they took the notch, made it

01:10:03   narrower but then disconnected it from the top of the phone.

01:10:06   So now screen pixels can flow above it, but that doesn't help you when you're scrolling

01:10:10   a list because you kind of got to stop the list scrolling before you hit the lozenge

01:10:14   or the notch or whatever.

01:10:16   And maybe you will scroll past it

01:10:18   and you'll see like a half line of text above it

01:10:19   or something, but I don't know.

01:10:21   I'm not convinced about this.

01:10:22   Now I understand what they're doing.

01:10:23   Like as we've said, since the notch was introduced,

01:10:26   it's not like Apple loves the notch.

01:10:28   The notch is a necessary evil

01:10:30   and to the extent that Apple can get rid of it, they will.

01:10:32   And so over time, Apple has continued to shrink the notch

01:10:34   in terms of the total area of the screen

01:10:36   that is notched out.

01:10:38   That continues with the pro models.

01:10:41   They have fewer pixels that don't exist

01:10:44   because of the Face ID and the front-facing camera.

01:10:46   And so they continue to march towards

01:10:48   not having, having all the pixels.

01:10:51   We're not there yet, we won't be there next year,

01:10:53   but eventually I feel like that's where Apple wants to go.

01:10:56   So this is a step in that direction.

01:10:58   I'm not entirely sure this step brings anything

01:11:00   to the customer, other than having

01:11:02   an easy visual differentiator to let people know

01:11:04   that you have the profile, which is itself a feature

01:11:07   that Apple probably cares about,

01:11:08   and some users care about as well.

01:11:11   - Well, I will say the late-breaking rumor

01:11:13   that they might put the dots in the little eye gap to show.

01:11:18   That is actually really nice

01:11:21   and that's a neat little feature that's very useful

01:11:23   so I'm looking forward to that if that's true.

01:11:25   I think that's very, very nice.

01:11:27   But yeah, ultimately I think it will just look more modern.

01:11:31   I mean the current notch style has been there

01:11:36   since the iPhone X.

01:11:37   It's been there a number of years.

01:11:39   Android phones have moved on to the hole punch style.

01:11:42   fairly recently, and so if Apple continued to have

01:11:47   the same notch style, I think it would start to look dated.

01:11:50   So I think this is about the time to change it.

01:11:52   - I mean it was a differentiator,

01:11:53   'cause Apple's particular shape and style of the notch

01:11:57   was, you know, even when they use little icons

01:12:00   to show this is an iPhone, you can see a little,

01:12:03   you know, we talked about this when we talked

01:12:04   about the notch, I go Apple's using it for branding, right?

01:12:07   Not because they love it, but because hey,

01:12:08   if it's there, it should be part of our brand.

01:12:11   When I see it with the Lozenge or the Sideways Eye

01:12:15   or however they decide to do it,

01:12:17   and not that it looks like an Android phone,

01:12:20   but it doesn't immediately say iPhone to me.

01:12:22   And I feel like it is less distinct.

01:12:24   Because there's lots of different hole punch cameras

01:12:26   that have been on Android phones for years.

01:12:27   They're all over the place,

01:12:28   different shapes, different sizes.

01:12:30   This one will be different.

01:12:32   I don't think I've seen an Android screen

01:12:33   with either of these exact arrangements,

01:12:35   whether it be the Eye or the Lozenge or whatever.

01:12:38   But I think it's gonna take a while for me to look at that

01:12:40   and have it read his iPhone, you know,

01:12:42   I'm sure we'll get there.

01:12:43   Eventually, I don't know what Apple's gonna do

01:12:44   when they can eventually get to the point

01:12:46   where they can just make the whole front

01:12:47   of the phone a screen,

01:12:49   because then how the heck do you make an icon of that

01:12:51   is literally just a vertical rounded rectangle.

01:12:53   Featureless vertical rounded rectangle

01:12:54   with nothing to differentiate it.

01:12:57   And it's kind of almost like,

01:12:58   and especially since Apple continues to change,

01:13:00   to subtly change the proportions of its phones

01:13:02   over the years, you know,

01:13:04   starting from the sort of short squat 3.5 inch

01:13:06   and the tall skinny, the, you know, iPhone five screen,

01:13:08   and then like it has changed proportions.

01:13:10   So it's not even like they can show you a rectangle

01:13:12   and go, oh, I can tell by the proportions

01:13:14   that's supposed to be an iPhone

01:13:15   'cause it is so kind of like, you know, era dependent.

01:13:19   Anyway, that's a future Apple problem, I suppose.

01:13:21   Speaking of the screen, the other rumor is

01:13:24   I always on screen due to improved screen technology

01:13:27   where there will be a lock screen

01:13:29   that will just be always on kind of like the watch is.

01:13:31   And as part of that potential feature

01:13:33   is the minimum one Hertz refresh.

01:13:36   I believe the current ones,

01:13:37   even though they do have variable refresh,

01:13:38   I don't think they go down to one hertz like the watch does.

01:13:41   I think their minimum is like what,

01:13:42   20 or five or something?

01:13:44   - I think it's something like 20.

01:13:45   - Yeah, anyway, the always on screen thing,

01:13:48   that's been rumored for a little bit.

01:13:52   I think it was even rumored for the last phone.

01:13:53   That's the type of thing that Apple can do a go, no go on

01:13:58   pretty late in the game,

01:14:00   because the one hertz minimum refresh,

01:14:03   that benefits battery life no matter what Apple does.

01:14:05   You don't have to have an always on screen to reap the benefits of having the 1Hz minimum

01:14:11   refresh on the LTPO screen technology, the lower power and everything, right?

01:14:15   But it seems like this may be the year for the always on lock screen.

01:14:19   And kind of like on the watch, I imagine it will be an option that you can turn off for

01:14:22   maximum battery life.

01:14:23   Don't use the always on lock screen because even though you're probably only lighting

01:14:26   up a small number of pixels, it's better not to light any of them up.

01:14:28   So I'm kind of looking forward to that because I think there's a lot of fun things you could

01:14:32   do with the phone there, but I'm not entirely convinced

01:14:35   that it's not the type of feature that Apple might punt.

01:14:38   We'll see.

01:14:41   - I'm guessing we actually get that one,

01:14:42   because the lock screen widgets being added this year

01:14:47   and some minor hints that were dropped to WBC,

01:14:51   basically the software is all lined up

01:14:54   for that always on screen feature.

01:14:56   So I think the combination of the software

01:14:59   pointing the way there and the rumors to that effect

01:15:01   for a pretty long time now,

01:15:03   that's probably a safe bet I'd say.

01:15:04   And I think that's gonna be kind of fun.

01:15:06   I mean, I'm not a phone on the table kind of person.

01:15:11   Like my phone's in my pocket when it's not in my hand.

01:15:14   So I don't think the Always On Screen

01:15:16   would be super useful to me personally,

01:15:18   but I can see that would be a pretty massive feature

01:15:21   for most of the world.

01:15:23   Most of the world seems to be like this giant phone

01:15:26   that doesn't fit in my pocket,

01:15:28   it must live on the table whenever I sit down.

01:15:30   And so for those people,

01:15:31   that this is gonna be a pretty good feature, I think.

01:15:33   - I do wonder how they'll control

01:15:35   what you're allowed to have on the screen.

01:15:36   Because these screens are OLED on the Pro phones,

01:15:39   you pay for every pixel that you light up.

01:15:42   And people being people,

01:15:44   I imagine what a lot of people want is,

01:15:46   well, I just want to see the picture

01:15:47   of my kids on the phone all the time.

01:15:48   It's like, well, the full screen,

01:15:50   the picture of your kids, that's a lot of pixels lit up.

01:15:53   How about just a little tiny widget

01:15:54   with your kids in it, right?

01:15:56   You know, like they do on the lock screen, right?

01:15:58   You get this little tiny rectangle

01:15:59   and that's where you get to put the picture of your kids.

01:16:01   And I can imagine people saying,

01:16:03   yeah, but on my watch I can do the whole kid's face

01:16:05   on the whole screen.

01:16:05   It's like, well, the watch screen is tiny.

01:16:07   So I felt there may be a tension

01:16:09   between what technology allows in terms of the feature.

01:16:12   Apple have designed this feature to encourage you

01:16:15   to not light up a lot of pixels and to force you perhaps,

01:16:18   to not be able to light up the entire screen

01:16:20   and just get these little widget things.

01:16:22   But I think that kind of flies in the face

01:16:23   what people want from this feature.

01:16:25   So we'll see how this evolves over the years

01:16:27   as the tech improves.

01:16:28   Well, worth knowing about the lock screen widget

01:16:31   implementation so far is that lock screen widgets

01:16:34   are monochrome and when you see some that have

01:16:39   what appears to be a translucent kind of background,

01:16:42   like a glass background kind of effect,

01:16:44   that is a special modifier in SwiftUI

01:16:47   that's the vibrancy background or something like that.

01:16:50   I can imagine them in a low luminance situation

01:16:53   like a sleeping lock screen that's always on,

01:16:56   just rendering those as black.

01:16:58   So I think the aesthetic is going to be

01:17:01   basically just monochrome line art for the widgets,

01:17:04   text and iconography and monochrome and that's probably it.

01:17:08   And then that gives them the freedom to dim it way down

01:17:11   or adapt to different ambient light levels in a smart way.

01:17:16   So that's probably how that's going to be.

01:17:18   And so I don't think we're gonna see things

01:17:19   like photos being used there

01:17:21   because they would have to be black and white.

01:17:24   Literally, not even having translucency

01:17:27   or not even grayscale, like even grayscale

01:17:30   is not gonna look super good there.

01:17:33   They could do it, but they probably won't do it.

01:17:34   So we're looking at basically monochrome art style here,

01:17:37   line art and text, and for that,

01:17:40   I think they can do quite well

01:17:42   and have lots of control over it,

01:17:43   but that will naturally limit it.

01:17:44   Also, I don't know if you're using the beta, John,

01:17:47   but I know Casey, you are.

01:17:48   The number of widgets on the lock screen is very small.

01:17:53   You basically, so you have like the time,

01:17:56   You have above the time, you have the date

01:17:58   and day of the week, and you can put a tiny widget

01:18:01   next to that, so there's one up top

01:18:03   that's a little skinny text thing that goes

01:18:05   in line with the date, and then below the time,

01:18:08   you have room for two, three, or four widgets

01:18:11   that take up one line.

01:18:13   So there's medium rectangles and little circles,

01:18:16   and you can either do four little circles

01:18:18   or one medium rectangle that's as wide as two circles

01:18:21   and then one or two more circles next to it.

01:18:22   So whatever it is, it's only the top third of the screen.

01:18:27   And even in that area, it's a fairly small number

01:18:30   of elements that you're actually keeping there.

01:18:33   Plus the widget system itself is very much based

01:18:35   on pre-rendering a timeline, so these apps

01:18:37   aren't actually being kept running this whole time.

01:18:39   So they can make it pretty low power

01:18:42   in a very similar way that watch complications are done.

01:18:45   - And speaking of the lock screen being monochrome stuff,

01:18:47   like it's not as if the screen is monochrome,

01:18:50   And it's not as if there's any particular power benefit

01:18:53   to doing things monochromatically.

01:18:55   In fact, it maybe works because you've

01:18:56   got to light up all the RGB subpixels to get grayish.

01:18:59   But it's like Marco said before, when you have something

01:19:01   that is monochrome, that means it's also high contrast

01:19:04   because it's black and then not black.

01:19:07   And that means you can dim it down

01:19:08   and it can still be legible with the screen dimmed.

01:19:10   Whereas if you had something that had subtle shading

01:19:13   gradations and was basically colored like any other interface

01:19:15   thing that Apple does where everything is like,

01:19:17   How about light gray miniature text on a white background?

01:19:21   If you dim that at all, it becomes invisible.

01:19:23   I would argue it's already kind of invisible to old people,

01:19:25   but Apple's line between here's how the designer

01:19:30   with very good vision thinks it should look,

01:19:33   and then here's how it looks

01:19:34   with the accessibility bolding thing turned on,

01:19:37   I feel like there's a medium between those two,

01:19:39   which is here's how it can still be relatively attractive,

01:19:43   because a lot of times I feel like the accessibility mode

01:19:46   where the high contrast and stuff just does not look

01:19:49   as good as the real one.

01:19:50   So I would like to be higher contrast,

01:19:52   but still attractive.

01:19:53   And Apple hasn't quite found that yet.

01:19:55   So maybe this lock screen will be one of the first

01:19:58   interfaces they've done that is both high contrast

01:20:02   in normal mode, let's say, or in default mode,

01:20:07   but still attractive looking, we'll see.

01:20:10   - Yeah, I would also say like, if you think about

01:20:12   the world that will be in a few weeks

01:20:16   where lots of people have these phones.

01:20:18   And again, assuming these rumors are all real,

01:20:20   which they are pretty consistent about this.

01:20:22   So assuming this world comes to pass,

01:20:24   imagine if you're at a crowded table,

01:20:27   maybe in a meeting or at a restaurant or something,

01:20:30   you're at a crowded table

01:20:31   and everyone has their phone on the table,

01:20:32   you don't want everyone's phone to be blaring

01:20:35   a full color screen at you the whole time.

01:20:38   That would be very visually loud and very distracting.

01:20:40   - You say you in that sentence.

01:20:42   you don't want, Apple doesn't want,

01:20:45   people probably do want,

01:20:46   but Apple is going to stop them from doing it.

01:20:48   - Well good, because if you think about

01:20:50   how they're probably going to do it,

01:20:52   which is a very subtle monochrome,

01:20:55   low brightness, no to minimal color,

01:21:00   just a very, like a status display,

01:21:02   as if it's like an LCD alarm, or an LED alarm clock,

01:21:05   very dim, just here's a little bit of information

01:21:08   for you on your phone, and then once you pick it up,

01:21:12   then it all lights up in full color, like that's fine,

01:21:14   but as it's sitting there idle on the table,

01:21:16   you wouldn't want a whole bunch of phones on the table

01:21:18   to all be glowing with bright colors and bright,

01:21:21   and bright, high brightness.

01:21:22   - And people just want their phone

01:21:23   to have a full color picture of their kid

01:21:25   and everyone else's phone to be dim.

01:21:26   - Right, so anyway, I'm thinking that's probably

01:21:29   gonna be like a very pragmatic

01:21:32   and visually tasteful way to do it.

01:21:35   - Yeah, so continuing with the phone rumors,

01:21:36   you already said the six gigs of RAM,

01:21:38   there's a rumor that it's gonna come with a 30,

01:21:40   or you will have available to you a 30 watt charger,

01:21:43   but the rumor is that the iPhone 14

01:21:47   will only be able to take 27 watts,

01:21:48   so it's a little bit of a future proof charger,

01:21:50   maybe for the 15.

01:21:51   Better battery life is always the rumor for phones.

01:21:55   In this case, the better battery life

01:21:56   would come from two main things, I think.

01:21:58   One is the lower power screen that we just talked about,

01:22:01   although that is somewhat offset by the fact

01:22:03   that there may be an option to leave it always on

01:22:04   with the screen we just talked about.

01:22:06   And two is the lower power cell modem.

01:22:09   It is not Apple's cell modem this year.

01:22:11   It is still another one from Qualcomm,

01:22:13   but apparently it does not take as much power

01:22:16   as the previous one did, which makes sense

01:22:17   because 5G was young in the past,

01:22:19   in the first few phones that had 5G,

01:22:21   now the Qualcomm chips that do 5G,

01:22:23   5G are not quite as power hungry.

01:22:25   So that bodes well for battery life,

01:22:27   assuming everything else is the same.

01:22:28   We think the phone is gonna be basically the same size,

01:22:30   and so, you know, it should have pretty good battery life.

01:22:32   But the other factor is the even bigger camera,

01:22:37   it's not even a bump.

01:22:38   The even bigger camera Mesa camera monstrosity that's on the back of this thing even bigger

01:22:43   than the 13 in terms of sticking out of the phone, which is what I care about.

01:22:47   I think it may also be bigger in terms of width and height but already in the 13 it

01:22:51   is not in the corner of the 13 it crosses the midline.

01:22:54   It's huge.

01:22:55   They really need to revise this.

01:22:57   The rumor was that this was going to be the year where they were going to have a flat

01:22:59   back on a thing with the periscope lens.

01:23:01   Nope that rumor has moved to next year.

01:23:03   I really hope it's true for next year.

01:23:05   I wish it was true for the phone year that I was getting but apparently it's not.

01:23:08   But anyway, in that giant camera bump that sticks out even farther, it's got a 48 megapixel

01:23:13   1x camera which will most of the time be pixel binned to 12 megapixels.

01:23:17   So it's not actually like you're going to be taking 48 megapixel photos most of the

01:23:20   time in low light.

01:23:22   But in theory, you could in very sunny conditions take a 48 megapixel image.

01:23:28   Also in theory, you may be able to record at 8K given the size of the sensor.

01:23:33   see what Apple does with that because just because the sensor has 48 megapixels on it

01:23:38   doesn't mean that Apple ever has to advertise or use those 48 megapixels.

01:23:42   They could just say, "It's got 48 megapixels, but we pixel bin all the time, and that's

01:23:47   a great advantage and only Apple blah, blah, blah."

01:23:49   I'm interested to see how they market this.

01:23:52   Can you explain what pixel binning is?

01:23:54   Pixel binning is when you have a 48 megapixel camera, but instead of reading out each pixel

01:23:59   saying, "Okay, pixel, what color do you see?

01:24:01   Okay, pixel, whatever color do you see?"

01:24:02   you take a set of four pixels, a two by two square of pixels,

01:24:06   and you treat that as one big pixel,

01:24:08   because that square of four pixels is very large

01:24:12   compared to the size of the single pixel.

01:24:14   And so you get basically, in the current camera,

01:24:16   so you get basically a 12 megapixel camera,

01:24:18   because 48 divided by four is 12.

01:24:21   You get a 12 megapixel camera,

01:24:23   where each quote unquote pixel on the sensor

01:24:25   is actually four 48 megapixel size sensors.

01:24:28   That's pixel binning.

01:24:29   I think I got the right term, right?

01:24:30   Am I using the wrong term for it?

01:24:32   I believe so, yeah.

01:24:34   - Yeah, it's not the same as binning

01:24:35   with the silicon graphics, but anyway,

01:24:37   it's using four pixels, it's kinda like retina.

01:24:39   The retina of the sensor, you know,

01:24:41   is the same thing on a retina screen

01:24:42   where you have one on-screen point

01:24:45   is made up of four native resolution pixels on your screen.

01:24:49   So there are a lot of things Apple can do programmatically

01:24:52   with this sensor to do fancy stuff with cameras.

01:24:55   We don't know which of those things

01:24:57   they're going to choose to do

01:24:58   other than surely they will support pixel binning,

01:25:00   but they could also say, well, when there's enough light,

01:25:02   we'll use 48 megapixels, maybe we'll use some weird hybrid thing where the readings of the

01:25:05   photo that have enough light will use like the native pixels and the other ones will

01:25:08   be binned, who knows?

01:25:09   Like computational photography is the type of thing that tends not to leak because it's

01:25:13   software we just know the hardware.

01:25:17   Also a rumor is the bigger pixels on the ultra wide camera are twice as large as the pixels

01:25:22   were on the iPhone 13 Pro and that bodes well for light gathering.

01:25:26   This is the 0.5x camera, the really really wide one.

01:25:29   I haven't heard any rumors about the 3x camera or whatever we call that camera that's not

01:25:34   the ultrawide and not the quote unquote 1x.

01:25:36   Will it be 3x?

01:25:37   Will it be 2.5, 3.5?

01:25:39   I think I recall seeing rumors about that but I didn't find them in time for the show

01:25:42   so we'll see what that is but I would imagine it will continue to be like it is today.

01:25:45   That the 1x camera is better and that the zoomed in camera doesn't zoom in enough to

01:25:51   be satisfactory for anybody but also takes worse pictures.

01:25:54   Sounds about right.

01:25:55   - Yeah, I'm very, very interested to see

01:25:58   what this allegedly 48 megapixel main sensor does,

01:26:03   like how that works, 'cause that's,

01:26:05   John covered it well, but that's gonna produce

01:26:08   some very tiny pixels, 'cause this is not

01:26:11   a very large sensor physically, so.

01:26:14   - Very tiny pixels and a lot of noise,

01:26:15   which is why they do the binning,

01:26:17   because as the pixels get very, very small,

01:26:19   it's easier for them to be perturbed and to think,

01:26:21   I'm not sure what light I got,

01:26:23   but I think I might be 100% red,

01:26:25   and you're like, no Pixel, you're not 100% red.

01:26:27   And so that's why you get noise at quote unquote high ISO

01:26:30   on camera sensors 'cause they don't get,

01:26:32   you need a certain amount of light

01:26:33   to get into the Pixel on the sensor

01:26:36   for it to take an accurate reading.

01:26:38   And if you just barely get a little bit of light in there,

01:26:40   the camera sensor's like, I don't know,

01:26:42   like greenish, I guess?

01:26:44   And you get noise, you get noise in the form of sort of

01:26:46   pixels in the image that you know didn't exist in the world

01:26:49   when you look out there.

01:26:51   And that's why sometimes you need to bin them

01:26:53   because if you get four of those pixels together

01:26:55   and you say, okay, let me just see what all four of you saw,

01:26:58   and one of them thinks it saw 100% red,

01:27:00   the other one's like, no, I think it's kind of grayish,

01:27:01   you can kind of, again, through computation, figure out,

01:27:04   all right, how do I interpret the noisy signal

01:27:07   from these four pixels on the sensor to make one pixel

01:27:10   that we think represents what the sensor actually saw?

01:27:12   - Yeah, and that's what I think this is most likely about,

01:27:15   and I think it is possible that they won't even

01:27:18   necessarily market it as 48 megapixels.

01:27:21   They might come up with some new term that's like,

01:27:25   Like we're beyond, this is our new gigapixel camera.

01:27:28   You know, they'll come up with some new name for marketing

01:27:31   that gets rid of the number of megapixels

01:27:33   because they don't wanna talk about that anymore

01:27:35   because it's more complicated than that now.

01:27:36   - And to be clear, this is not a new thing at all.

01:27:40   Cameras have been doing this forever.

01:27:42   Phone cameras have been doing this for a long,

01:27:43   this is just what Apple's doing this year

01:27:46   and Apple likes to have their own branding for things.

01:27:48   It's good, it's like we're not saying it's bad

01:27:50   but don't think this is,

01:27:51   when Apple introduces things like this very often

01:27:53   if you don't know about this technology,

01:27:55   "Wow, this is amazing, no one has ever done this before."

01:27:57   No, people have done this before.

01:27:59   - That being said, I do expect it,

01:28:01   if they were doing something like this,

01:28:03   I do expect it to be some kind of significant advancement

01:28:07   to the abilities of the computational engine,

01:28:10   'cause it'll be getting more information,

01:28:12   and with more information, it can create better outcomes.

01:28:14   So I'm guessing that's gonna be how we see this.

01:28:17   Like, it's not gonna necessarily be

01:28:19   that our output number of pixels

01:28:21   is going to necessarily be that.

01:28:22   It might be, but it probably won't be.

01:28:24   My guess is we're gonna get a better quality

01:28:29   12 megapixel size than what we had before

01:28:32   through the use of more pixels as input to the algorithm.

01:28:35   But we'll see, I could be wrong.

01:28:36   - I'm still holding out hope that they'll,

01:28:37   like if on a sunny day you take a picture

01:28:39   that they're actually gonna give you the full 48 megapixels

01:28:42   'cause there's just so much sunlight.

01:28:43   - I mean maybe, that would be great,

01:28:45   but this is a really tiny sensor, so I don't know.

01:28:48   - It'll probably still be, we'll see what they do.

01:28:51   Yeah, I'm looking forward to any advancement

01:28:54   the camera and I think to go along with this the a16 is probably the only chip

01:28:58   that that has an image processor that can grind through 48 native pixels off

01:29:04   the sensor in the time envelope required to do all the things they wanted to do

01:29:08   with video recording and everything so I you know obviously the the non pro

01:29:13   camera phone is not getting this 48 megapixel camera and I think it just it

01:29:16   couldn't use it anyway because it only has the a15 so it seems like the a16 is

01:29:21   probably the minimum SOC spec for this camera.

01:29:25   - Yeah, that would make sense.

01:29:26   - More rumors, stronger MagSafe magnets in the phone.

01:29:30   I mean, I suppose.

01:29:32   I don't know if that's true or not,

01:29:34   but these rumors are getting less and less reliable.

01:29:37   I think I got on those lists, by the way.

01:29:38   For Casey, one of the rumors

01:29:40   that people really wanna believe,

01:29:41   and I bet Casey wants to believe it too,

01:29:43   is vapor chamber cooling,

01:29:45   which is basically, what you need to know about it is,

01:29:49   a better way of cooling the phone,

01:29:50   what it actually is is kind of like if you ever seen like a heat pipe where there's like a liquid in there that

01:29:55   evaporates and then and then go someplace else and condenses and that how that's how it carries heat away from the thing that's hot a

01:30:00   vapor chamber was just like that, but instead of being in a tube, it's a

01:30:03   You know instead of being a long skinny tube

01:30:06   It's a large region the where the stuff can evaporate and then condense and come back in

01:30:11   Anyway, whole point is better cooling. Um, yes iPhone 13 Pro

01:30:17   Not that people really care about this or you know regular people care about this but people who have heavily

01:30:21   Benchmarked the 13 Pro have shown that it thermal throttles a lot more even than previous phones did

01:30:26   Obviously iPhones have no fan in them and especially whether they're in 20 layers of case

01:30:31   There's not a lot of place for the heat to go

01:30:33   So whatever Apple can do tech wise in the very limited space available to it

01:30:37   to more efficiently carry heat away from the hot parts of the phone and

01:30:41   Dump it into the less hot parts of the phone to the extent that they can succeed in that way

01:30:46   They may actually help with Casey's dimming screen in the Sun now

01:30:50   There's limited amount they can do if you leave your phone in the dashboard of your car

01:30:54   It's gonna overheat and show you that little sad graphic that says sorry

01:30:58   You can't do anything your phone now because it's too darn hot like there's no getting around that

01:31:01   You know, that's it's just it's just physics in terms of how many watts of power are dissipated and where those things have to go

01:31:07   But I would love to see a better cooling solution for iPhones

01:31:11   I'm just not sure I'm willing to believe that you know all the rumors have been Apple is investigating vapor chamber cooling

01:31:17   I bet they've been investigating vapor chamber cooling for the past 10 years for five months

01:31:21   It doesn't mean it's going to come in this phone, but fingers crossed

01:31:24   Yeah agreed and and just to be clear what I was complaining about before it

01:31:29   I do every great once in a while see the you can't use your phone until it cools down message

01:31:34   That's not what I'm talking about

01:31:35   I'm talking about is you can use the phone, but the the screen has dimmed aggressive. You're on your way to that graphic though

01:31:41   - Yep, yep, yep. - Yep.

01:31:42   - Exactly, so yeah, I would love this,

01:31:45   if it would lead to me being able to use my phone

01:31:48   more consistently in sunshine,

01:31:50   but I'm also not holding my breath on this one.

01:31:53   - And for my wife, there is a rumor

01:31:55   of a new MagSafe battery pack accessory,

01:31:57   which would kind of negate the advantage

01:32:00   that I just talked about before.

01:32:00   It's like, well, they introduced this MagSafe battery pack,

01:32:03   but the good thing is you don't need to get rid of it.

01:32:04   You can use it with your next phone,

01:32:05   but if Apple comes out with a better MagSafe battery pack,

01:32:08   a lot of people are gonna say,

01:32:08   oh, well, forget about this old MagSafe battery pack.

01:32:10   old anyway let me get the new one so we'll see how that goes and then the final rumor as far as this

01:32:15   list that i compiled here for the phone is related to the graphic for the invitation which says far

01:32:21   out and shows an apple logo surrounded by stars and like a space star field we have this rumor i

01:32:26   think last year maybe even the year before that as well satellite connectivity for iphones i really

01:32:33   don't think this is the year for it but it's been rumored for like two or three years now maybe it

01:32:39   it will happen someday. When I see these rumors, I think, "Oh, I'm sure the company that owns

01:32:44   those satellites would love for an Apple tie-in for its service." I'm just not entirely sure

01:32:48   that it is a real thing or what its function might be. But when we get to the Apple Watch

01:32:53   rumors, we'll see there may be a connection that will make sense there. And hey, the invitation

01:32:57   does have stars in it this year, but I wouldn't read too much into it. We'll see. It's a possibility.

01:33:01   There it is at the bottom of the list. Satellite connectivity.

01:33:04   Wouldn't it make more sense if this was when Apple starts using their own modems?

01:33:08   Like, maybe I'm dead wrong about that, but it seems logical to me that it would make a lot more sense.

01:33:13   Oh, that they would wait until their own modems for the satellite thing? I don't know.

01:33:15   I mean, I think the part of this rumor is that the hardware is capable of it right now.

01:33:20   Or the hardware in the iPhone 14 Pro is capable of satellite connectivity.

01:33:24   It just doesn't mean that that's a thing that will be in the product.

01:33:29   - I mean, if it is, that's an incredible feature.

01:33:32   Like, that's a very, very compelling feature

01:33:34   for lots of people who take their phones

01:33:37   or live in or around places that have

01:33:40   crappy cell coverage or no cell coverage.

01:33:42   - It's an incredibly compelling feature

01:33:44   for people who own satellites that are in space

01:33:46   that can provide this, because they would love

01:33:48   some iPhone customers' money.

01:33:49   'Cause to be clear, this is not a thing

01:33:51   that you'll just get for free.

01:33:53   - No, and the way it's been rumored, which makes sense,

01:33:57   is that it would basically be for emergency use only.

01:34:00   So, and Garmin sells these little inreach devices

01:34:04   that basically do the same thing now

01:34:07   where it connects to a satellite network

01:34:10   and it's meant to bring with you

01:34:12   if you're going camping in the mountains or something

01:34:13   and you're gonna be nowhere near cell coverage,

01:34:15   well what if you have some kind of emergency

01:34:17   and you need to call for help?

01:34:18   That's what these are for.

01:34:20   So you can't place a voice call on it

01:34:22   but you can send a text message

01:34:24   or you can hit an SOS button

01:34:26   and it'll transmit your location to responders.

01:34:28   That kind of thing is very, very compelling.

01:34:31   So you're not gonna be browsing Instagram

01:34:34   over the satellite network.

01:34:35   There's no data functionality on these things,

01:34:39   or at least very, very, very minimal data functionality.

01:34:42   It's only for sending emergency messages, basically,

01:34:45   and calling for help if you need it.

01:34:46   And so the rumor is that Apple has been negotiating

01:34:49   with the provider of this, the big company

01:34:52   that makes these satellites, to have some kind of level

01:34:54   of emergency service for iPhone owners.

01:34:56   and if that's the case, that's first of all,

01:34:58   that's a pretty big if, 'cause that's a very big deal

01:35:02   and involving different people and very large volumes.

01:35:05   But if that is a thing, that's massive.

01:35:09   And that would be a huge driver of sales

01:35:11   for whatever model would have it,

01:35:13   because a lot of people want to have some kind

01:35:18   of emergency coverage when they're out

01:35:21   of cell coverage areas, and that's a pretty great feature.

01:35:25   Yeah, and we have this exact discussion last year for the 13 and it didn't ship and it's like that

01:35:30   It's not like it didn't ship because the iPhone didn't have the tech for it

01:35:32   It's like they didn't make the business deal because you got it like Apple doesn't own satellites

01:35:35   So they have to make a deal with somebody who does and it would be a cool Apple thing to do for Apple to say

01:35:40   Actually, this is free for iPhone owners

01:35:42   Apple will pay this company some flat amount or whatever and

01:35:45   In exchange for that any iPhone user if they need it can use it in the case of emergency or whatever, you know

01:35:51   This is an infrequent feature, but we'll see maybe this is the year for that feature

01:35:54   And honestly, I could see that being the way they do it

01:35:57   'cause otherwise, they would have to have

01:36:00   some kind of billing system.

01:36:02   I guess they could make it part of Apple Plus

01:36:04   or Apple One or whatever.

01:36:06   I can imagine them just saying,

01:36:09   "No, look, this is just included for free

01:36:12   "with every iPhone is emergency calling

01:36:15   "if you need it with satellite."

01:36:18   - Can we go back just a half step to the battery pack?

01:36:21   If you recall, the three of us decided

01:36:24   during a recording like a year ago, whenever it came out,

01:36:26   that I was going to be the one to take the fall

01:36:28   and spend $100 or whatever the ridiculous amount was

01:36:31   on the battery pack.

01:36:34   And I did.

01:36:35   - Me too. - And I slightly,

01:36:37   oh you did, I don't think I knew that.

01:36:39   - I got it like later on, I didn't get it when it was new.

01:36:42   - Okay, so I did, I spent the money,

01:36:43   I got the battery pack.

01:36:44   - And my wife's got it too, so all three of us have it.

01:36:46   - As it turns out, although I was the first one

01:36:48   to take the fall, I remember vividly,

01:36:49   I was given that homework assignment,

01:36:51   and I thought, you know what,

01:36:52   if I'm gonna get a homework assignment

01:36:53   spend a pile of money I will spend $100 pile or $100 size pile of money and be

01:36:58   okay with that but anyways I bought this thinking I would use it twice never look

01:37:02   back that thing is actually really convenient and I really like it like I'm

01:37:06   not saying you have to buy the hundred dollar Apple version because there are

01:37:08   other you know third-party versions that do the same idea but I actually really

01:37:13   like having a Chi and MagSafe battery pack that you can just slap on a phone

01:37:18   for a little while or for even several hours charge the phone and then just pop

01:37:23   it right off and you don't have to think about it again. It is actually way more convenient

01:37:27   than I expected. And a surprise hit in the LIS household. You know, every great once

01:37:31   in a while, because we have Qi chargers on our bedside tables, we do not have MagSafe

01:37:35   chargers on our bedside tables. And every great once in a while, one of us will miss

01:37:39   and we think the thing is charging. In fact, this happened to Aaron last night. We think

01:37:42   the thing is charging, but it turns out, you know, it isn't. And so you wake up in the

01:37:46   morning, your phone's at like 10, 20, 30%. Well, if you, as long as we keep that battery

01:37:51   pack charge, which we tend to do, which I know is terrible for the battery, but whatever,

01:37:54   as long as we keep it charged and you just slap that bad boy on there and go about your

01:37:58   day and not have to worry about it, which is really, really convenient.

01:38:01   So again, I'm not necessarily advocating the Apple One specifically, but the whole idea

01:38:06   of a Qi and MagSafe powered battery pack, two thumbs up from the List household.

01:38:12   And the rumor about a new one, the things they could do with the new one to make it

01:38:15   better is make the battery bigger, as in bigger capacity, maybe also visit Phrasily Assigned

01:38:20   and make it attach more securely.

01:38:21   And so that fits with the potentially stronger MagSafe rumor.

01:38:24   So I'm hoping that's the case because the current one

01:38:26   is not up to the rigors of Pokemon Go.

01:38:29   - No it is not.

01:38:30   - I just, I wish that there was a better way to charge

01:38:35   than Qi for these battery packs.

01:38:37   'Cause you know, like right now we have two options.

01:38:39   We can either use Qi, which is a MagSafe,

01:38:41   which is very convenient, but performs horribly.

01:38:45   Or we can use a cabled battery pack,

01:38:49   which is very inconvenient and bulkier,

01:38:51   but charges much faster and more efficiently

01:38:54   and with less heat.

01:38:55   You know, 'cause a Qi battery pack,

01:38:57   you figure, if you're using a little battery pack

01:39:00   for your phone, size is important,

01:39:03   charging speed is probably important

01:39:06   if you don't wanna keep it on there all day long,

01:39:08   and you were literally, Casey, just complaining

01:39:11   about a heat issue with your phone, right?

01:39:14   - Yeah, yeah, you're right.

01:39:14   - And Qi is horrible for all those things.

01:39:17   It is incredibly slow, it's inefficient,

01:39:20   it loses lots of its power to heat in the process,

01:39:23   which means both that your phone and pocket are hotter,

01:39:26   and the same size battery pack,

01:39:29   you're not getting as much power out of it,

01:39:31   you know, as much capacity out of it

01:39:32   as you would if it was directly wired.

01:39:34   So really, Qi is terrible for the performance characteristics

01:39:37   it just happens to be really convenient.

01:39:39   I wish there was something,

01:39:41   and I don't think they would ever do this,

01:39:42   but I almost wish there was something

01:39:44   like the iPad smart connector where there were

01:39:48   like a couple of contact dots on the back of the phone

01:39:50   and a compatible accessory could directly charge

01:39:54   with contacts, maybe using MagSafe to align it,

01:39:58   but having little contacts in the back

01:40:00   that they could just use little holes there.

01:40:02   - It sounds like what you want is not MagSafe, but MagSafe.

01:40:05   - Right. (laughing)

01:40:08   - Stupid Apple names.

01:40:10   - Exactly, like that, some kind of,

01:40:13   MagSafe with contacts would be incredible

01:40:16   because it could charge things with much more current,

01:40:19   so much faster charging,

01:40:21   and with much less heat and power loss.

01:40:24   And again, I don't see them doing this

01:40:26   for a number of reasons, you know,

01:40:27   aesthetic, the issues of going through cases,

01:40:30   like, you know, I don't think they're gonna do it,

01:40:33   but I wish they would because MagSafe

01:40:35   for like alignment and stickiness is great,

01:40:39   but Qi as a charging method sucks.

01:40:42   The thing that will solve this, medium to longest term, is that assuming the advances

01:40:49   in battery technology that are on the horizon actually come to fruition in the next few decades,

01:40:53   we should be able to get in a phone-sized device enough battery power to be even better than what

01:41:01   we have today to get you through the day with a phone caliber SoC and basically have many fewer

01:41:09   watt hours to do that. so as chip technology advances, as the batteries get better, whatever,

01:41:13   even if the charging technology doesn't get that much better, it's kind of the same way that the

01:41:18   watch charges so fast that you can just put it on the charger when you take a shower and then you

01:41:22   can sleep with it all night. it's because the watch battery is so small it has a small amount

01:41:25   of energy in it. so to the extent that we can shrink the battery in the phone by saying we

01:41:30   don't need the battery to have as much energy stored in it because the computing stuff in the

01:41:35   the rest of the phone requires less energy to be a phone caliber SOC, that will let us

01:41:42   get to the point where this wireless charging stuff is less onerous.

01:41:46   Not through any amazing advance in wireless charging technology, not through any advance

01:41:51   in connectors like the direct connection of things, but simply in "I don't have to put

01:41:55   as much energy into this battery because the phone requires less energy."

01:41:58   This is, you know, it's not an infinite timeline argument, but it is a decades long argument.

01:42:03   That seems more likely to me than some kind of advance in wireless charging technology

01:42:07   that makes it not have all the downsides you just talked about.

01:42:10   Because practically speaking, the way we're doing wireless charging is the way, you know,

01:42:14   it's electromagnetism to get energy from one place to another, and the farther you separate

01:42:18   them and the more energy you have to put, like there's no getting around that stuff,

01:42:23   right?

01:42:24   I don't think there's anything on the horizon that's going to allow us to wirelessly charge

01:42:28   longer distances and higher power without

01:42:30   You know all the downsides of heat and inefficiencies and all the stuff. We don't like you know. It's funny

01:42:36   I said to you that Aaron was using the battery pack this morning

01:42:39   Because her phone got a little off-kilter last night on the charger

01:42:43   And she had her phone in her purse while we went out to breakfast for her birthday today actually

01:42:48   And she pulled her phone out of her purse after you know it had been sitting there half an hour an hour or something like

01:42:52   That and the very first thing she said was oh my phone is on fire like obviously not literally

01:42:57   But you know it was just really freaking hot and that's because of the Qi charging and like you were saying Marco and the fact

01:43:03   That the battery pack was was creating and then the phone together were creating so much darn heat

01:43:08   So this is another

01:43:11   disappointing thing with the non pro 14 is that historically the the non pro phones have

01:43:18   Been the type of thing where like if you don't care about the maximum possible power and all that other stuff you could potentially get

01:43:24   better battery life from the non-Pro phone in these years when they've been the same

01:43:28   form factor, same size battery and everything just because they run less hot, they are doing

01:43:33   less stuff or whatever.

01:43:34   Well this year, I mean maybe it's not that bad because I think the IE 16 and the A15

01:43:38   are built on the same process I think.

01:43:41   But anyway, the iPhone non-Pro 14 is not going to have a new SoC that uses less power.

01:43:48   It's going to have the same old A15 as in the phones now.

01:43:52   In fact, the same A15 as in the iPhone 13,

01:43:56   because it's coming from a year

01:43:57   when both phones had the good SoC,

01:43:59   which is kind of disappointing.

01:44:01   In theory, it could still use less power

01:44:03   because of the more power-sipping Qualcomm cell modem

01:44:08   that I think will also be in the 14.

01:44:11   And maybe, I'm not sure about the low-power screen thing

01:44:13   or whatever, but this just,

01:44:15   if this becomes the way things are,

01:44:17   I mean, if it had always been this way,

01:44:18   we would have just accepted it,

01:44:19   "Oh, well, the Pro phone has the fancy SoC

01:44:21   and the non-pro one is the old one.

01:44:22   But because we were spoiled by those years

01:44:24   when they both have the same SOC,

01:44:25   it is disappointing to go back to this tiered world

01:44:27   and it makes the non-pro phone

01:44:30   ever so slightly less attractive.

01:44:31   Maybe that will be adjusted by the rumored price increases

01:44:34   across the board, so it's like,

01:44:35   well, I wasn't gonna get the pro phone,

01:44:36   but look at these prices,

01:44:37   I don't care about that camera that much.

01:44:39   So we'll see how Apple positions this.

01:44:41   Obviously the big win for non-pro people is,

01:44:43   hey, if you wanted a big phone

01:44:44   but didn't wanna pay pro prices, this is a huge upgrade.

01:44:47   I can't believe Apple waited so long

01:44:49   to produce a big iPhone for the people who want it that's not a pro phone.

01:44:54   I think that is filling a big hole in their line.

01:44:57   I would say that they're going to sell a lot of them, but I don't actually know how many

01:45:02   people buy the Maxes at all, and I think it's a little bit of an unknown because the Max

01:45:06   phone, the biggest phone, has always been Apple's most expensive phone for the entire

01:45:10   history that the giant phone has existed in their lineup.

01:45:14   So we don't know what it's going to be like.

01:45:15   How many people were buying that because they always wanted the most expensive phone, or

01:45:18   people just want a big screen phone and will get the cheapest big screen phone they can buy

01:45:22   and that happened to be it so this will be a fun experiment for Apple's bean counters to see how

01:45:27   this goes but I think no matter what it's not like they're going to do this and say oh it's a terrible

01:45:31   mistake let's roll it back next year I think this should just be the way going forward I mean if

01:45:36   only just for Sentry which Apple loves like 14 and 14 pro they both come in two sizes very very easy

01:45:42   to explain. All right, what else? Apple watch series 8. The rumors about that are, hey,

01:45:50   super boring. It's kind of like the series 7, maybe it'll have a temperature sensor,

01:45:53   maybe it'll come in a new color or two. Yeah, we've heard basically nothing about whatever

01:45:59   the regular version of the series 8 is supposed to be. We've only heard rumors about this

01:46:03   larger, possibly more rugged one. Well, the temperature sensor is the main rumor for the

01:46:09   the non- for the plane and you may be wondering we get that we get to a second

01:46:13   but anyway for the plain old Apple series Apple watch series 8 temperature

01:46:17   sensor is the rumor it's one of those type of things that Apple has at various

01:46:21   times they've been rumors about new health sensors or capabilities that have

01:46:26   either not launched when we thought they were going to or launch with less

01:46:29   capability than the rumors said so we'll see how this goes the rumor now is that

01:46:33   yes it will have a temperature sensor but you won't be able to say hey Apple

01:46:36   watch, what's my body temperature right now?

01:46:38   Instead, it'll just, because of the presumably

01:46:40   the imprecision of it, it will just take readings

01:46:43   over the course of the day and kind of tell you

01:46:45   what your sort of average is by sort of throwing away

01:46:47   the garbage values and averaging it altogether.

01:46:49   Presumably due to the difficulty of taking your temperature

01:46:52   on the back of your wrist, which as you know

01:46:55   if you ever use a thermometer is not one of the areas

01:46:57   where you tend to put a thermometer

01:46:58   to get an accurate body temperature reading.

01:47:00   But then again, we've all been scammed by the stupid IR

01:47:02   things that go on your forehead.

01:47:04   Although I still think the forehead is a easier place

01:47:06   to get a accurate body temperature

01:47:08   than the back of your wrist.

01:47:09   So it's a difficult challenge.

01:47:11   We'll see if this thing ships or how they position it.

01:47:13   But as with all health sensors, Apple tends to be cagey

01:47:15   and say, "This watch is not your doctor."

01:47:19   We'll be really conservative about kind of what we say,

01:47:21   like Margaux's fast heart rate thing.

01:47:23   Like, we're not gonna tell you anything deep

01:47:26   about your heart, but we're gonna say,

01:47:27   "We noticed something that might be a thing.

01:47:29   "Here you go."

01:47:30   Like, here's a summary of something we noticed,

01:47:33   but we'll see how the temperature stuff goes.

01:47:36   If that does ship on the Apple Watch Series 8,

01:47:39   that was probably enough to get a lot of people on board.

01:47:41   Presumably, the rumor of the design is it looks

01:47:42   just like the 7, same big screen, same all that stuff.

01:47:45   Maybe it'll have some power improvements.

01:47:47   I think we talked about last time

01:47:49   that the SOC in the Apple Watch,

01:47:50   they incremented the number,

01:47:51   but it's basically the same SOC as the last one,

01:47:54   with minimal changes.

01:47:56   I wonder if they'll do that again.

01:47:57   - I think it's about the same as the last two, actually.

01:47:59   I think the Series 5, 6, and 7

01:48:02   have all basically had the same SOC.

01:48:04   Even though they've changed the name, you know, under the covers of people who have

01:48:07   been poking around, it seems like it's similar.

01:48:09   So I don't expect any big changes there.

01:48:11   This year the big rumor is, for whatever the hell they call this thing, let's just call

01:48:15   it the Apple Watch Series 8 Pro for now, but who knows what they'll call it.

01:48:18   The rumor is that it will be a bigger watch with a flat display that is more rugged and

01:48:24   has longer battery life and might be made of titanium.

01:48:27   And this is kind of like the rumor last year that all the Apple Watches are going to have

01:48:30   flat sides or whatever, although interestingly the rumor for this one is that it has a flat

01:48:33   screen presumably that implies flat sides as well I'm not sure how they'll

01:48:38   position this other than hey here's an Apple watch that cost more money if it

01:48:42   actually is bigger the rumor is 47 millimeters and if that's like the only

01:48:45   size it comes in I guess it'll have better battery life because it's just so

01:48:49   much bigger and most of the stuff that's inside of his battery titanium should

01:48:54   make it lighter and maybe more rugged but I like the rumors have been all over

01:48:58   the place on this oh it's gonna be a watch for hikers and explorers and

01:49:01   and you'll be able to take it into the wilderness with you

01:49:03   'cause it's super rugged and it's the G-Shock

01:49:05   of Apple Watches and the battery life lasts a long time

01:49:07   and you can camp for a week with it without charging it

01:49:09   like David Smith wants to do.

01:49:11   But also it could just be, oh, this is a Pro one

01:49:14   and it's fancier and it's more expensive

01:49:16   or it could be it's the most expensive one

01:49:17   'cause it's the biggest like the iPhone Pro Max.

01:49:20   I really don't know, again, if this appears,

01:49:23   how they're going to pitch this, but this seems like,

01:49:26   I mean, I know the iPhone is the star of the show,

01:49:28   but everything we talked about in the iPhone is like,

01:49:31   it's like last year's phones but has some better stuff.

01:49:34   This is a new product.

01:49:35   And I know the 14 Max is also technically a new product,

01:49:38   but this is a new product that,

01:49:39   'cause Apple hasn't, we talked about this last year

01:49:41   with the rumors of the flat size,

01:49:42   Apple has not changed the fundamental iconic form factor

01:49:45   of the Apple Watch in the history of the product.

01:49:47   It has changed in subtle ways,

01:49:50   but it's always been that Airstream trailer on your wrist

01:49:52   but made of different materials.

01:49:54   And it's gotten better and better looking over time,

01:49:56   but they haven't changed that.

01:49:57   If the rumors of this thing being flat

01:49:59   and everything are true,

01:50:00   This will be the first new design of the Apple Watch

01:50:03   in the history of the product.

01:50:04   It's like as if Tesla ever redesigned the Model S.

01:50:07   It's like, wow, I didn't even know that was possible.

01:50:09   I thought it was gonna be the same car forever and ever.

01:50:12   We'll see if this happens, but if it does,

01:50:15   I suppose the pro watch that presumably will cost

01:50:18   even more than the other ones

01:50:19   is the place to experiment with this.

01:50:21   - And to be clear, and we'll see what all this ends up

01:50:25   being in a product if it comes out,

01:50:26   but there is a fairly substantially sized market

01:50:31   for larger, more rugged smartwatches

01:50:35   that are often used by either,

01:50:37   for extreme workout conditions or things like hiking

01:50:41   and large outdoor expedition kind of things.

01:50:44   That is a market that exists and that is being served

01:50:47   by other brands right now and the Apple Watch

01:50:49   is not competing as well as it could in that market.

01:50:52   So it actually does make tons of sense

01:50:55   for Apple to try to get into this market.

01:50:57   Whether they'll succeed, who knows, it remains to be seen.

01:51:00   How well this product will actually appeal to that market,

01:51:02   who knows, again, it remains to be seen.

01:51:05   This is not a market of just cheap crap watches.

01:51:09   Like the watches that are in this market

01:51:10   are in the ballpark of Apple's prices,

01:51:13   and I think they might even exceed them in some cases.

01:51:15   So it isn't like Apple can't compete

01:51:18   just because they're the nice expensive option

01:51:20   like in certain markets.

01:51:22   No, in this case, Apple could compete if they choose to.

01:51:24   they just so far have basically chosen not to.

01:51:27   And if you look, there's lots of these,

01:51:29   of these like 46, 47-ish, 50 millimeter watches

01:51:34   that are very thick and chunky,

01:51:35   like John kind of sarcastically said,

01:51:38   like the G-Shock of smartwatches.

01:51:40   But no, those are real,

01:51:41   that's a real category that actually exists

01:51:44   and that is currently not buying Apple watches.

01:51:45   - Does the G-Shock of smartwatches exist though?

01:51:49   - I know Garmin makes a lot of--

01:51:52   - No, I mean, I guess that makes sense for Garmin,

01:51:54   but that's the challenge Apple faces, right?

01:51:57   It's thus far, it's Apple watches have not been anywhere

01:52:01   near the ballpark of I can take this on a week vacation

01:52:04   without a charger, like not even close.

01:52:06   A day or two maybe.

01:52:08   - Right, so yeah, the battery question,

01:52:10   that's a very big question and that remains to be seen

01:52:14   if they try to exceed their current battery life

01:52:17   or if they just say, you know what,

01:52:19   if you're doing multi-day off the grid adventures,

01:52:21   this still isn't for you, but if you're doing

01:52:24   something that just requires more ruggedness, that's fine.

01:52:27   'Cause ruggedness takes up space.

01:52:30   So the question is, are they making

01:52:33   a significantly bigger battery inside this watch?

01:52:36   Or is it a significantly larger and more bulked up body

01:52:41   around what is basically a 45 millimeter,

01:52:44   Series 8 or Series 7?

01:52:46   And I think that's the more likely thing.

01:52:48   Because to make something rugged, again,

01:52:50   you need padding, so whether it's like

01:52:53   you know, this gummy plastic kind of case

01:52:55   for some squish resistance there,

01:52:57   or whether you're just using thicker metals, who knows.

01:53:01   That's why, so the rumor is that this might be offered

01:53:04   in titanium as like a pro high-end thing.

01:53:08   I don't know if that necessarily makes sense

01:53:11   to be this product.

01:53:12   This, that sounds like, and maybe this is wishful thinking,

01:53:15   that sounds like two different rumors

01:53:17   that are being conflated, like maybe they're gonna have,

01:53:21   or maybe they're gonna rebrand the edition

01:53:24   as Apple Watch Pro, and that stays titanium,

01:53:27   but stays available in all the sizes.

01:53:30   And maybe the large, rugged one is made of something else.

01:53:34   Because you can, as I mentioned earlier,

01:53:36   you can make titanium fairly tough.

01:53:39   In the ballpark, maybe a little bit tougher than steel,

01:53:41   depending on how you're processing it

01:53:42   and what you're finishing it with.

01:53:43   But it can be pretty tough,

01:53:46   but it's nothing like these Garmin rugged watches

01:53:48   that are mostly made of plastic materials

01:53:51   or plastic composites, to be rugged,

01:53:53   you know, look at a G-Shock, again,

01:53:55   G-Shocks exist made of metal,

01:53:57   but most of them are made of resin and stuff,

01:53:59   'cause it's just stronger,

01:54:01   and it takes damage more gracefully.

01:54:03   So if they're trying to compete with that market,

01:54:07   I don't see that being the same product

01:54:09   as a quote, pro thing made of titanium.

01:54:12   That to me is a separate market.

01:54:15   And there's lots of what we call tool watches

01:54:18   or utility watches in the watch world

01:54:20   that are basically, that basically means

01:54:21   like kind of like you know, rugged everyday things

01:54:23   that if you're like you know, working you know,

01:54:24   in a condition where you know,

01:54:27   your watch might get hit here and there, that it's strong.

01:54:29   There are titanium uses in the watch world

01:54:33   that you know, in those roles,

01:54:36   but they get beaten up.

01:54:37   And you know, they're made to take it somewhat gracefully,

01:54:39   but they do get beaten up,

01:54:40   and I don't know if Apple would use titanium in that way

01:54:43   knowing that that's how it would be,

01:54:44   you know, how it would be used.

01:54:46   So I don't know, we'll see.

01:54:47   I'm very, very curious to see what these rumors

01:54:51   end up having been about, if anything.

01:54:54   - Yeah, or if anything ships at all.

01:54:55   But again, this was rumored for last year,

01:54:57   maybe this will be the year.

01:54:58   And speaking of that, one final product here,

01:55:00   AirPods Pro 2.

01:55:02   AirPods Pro have been around for a while.

01:55:04   There's been rumors every second revision of them

01:55:06   that hasn't appeared yet.

01:55:07   Maybe it will be, maybe this will be the year.

01:55:11   What would the AirPods Pro 2 do?

01:55:13   What would they have?

01:55:14   There are a lot of rumors surrounding.

01:55:16   They'll be the first ones capable of lossless audio

01:55:18   through some new codec,

01:55:19   or maybe they'll just use improved codecs

01:55:21   for the regular audio stuff.

01:55:23   Presumably they would, you know,

01:55:25   do slightly better at all the things

01:55:27   the AirPods Pro already do,

01:55:29   slightly better noise canceling,

01:55:30   better battery life, all that.

01:55:31   But the rumors are that these are not the new form factor

01:55:34   that's been floating around like stemless essentially.

01:55:38   I don't know if that's a real thing

01:55:39   or just like someone's fantasy of like

01:55:41   Apple should make AirPod Pros without a stem,

01:55:42   but the rumor is that these don't look any different

01:55:44   the current ones more or less, they would just be better at it.

01:55:47   And I think, I mean this is kind of the problem with AirPods, we've talked about this before,

01:55:51   they have such tiny batteries and lithium ion batteries eventually wear out and they

01:55:55   are not replaceable.

01:55:57   And so yeah, people can continue to just buy new copies of the same product they had, but

01:56:02   eventually Apple likes to sell you a different version that costs slightly more.

01:56:06   And that would be the AirPods Pro 2, which probably would be slightly more expensive

01:56:10   than the old AirPods Pro.

01:56:12   And I think it would encourage people to upgrade

01:56:15   because they would say, you know what?

01:56:16   I love my AirPods Pro,

01:56:17   but the batteries aren't what they used to be.

01:56:19   And I didn't want to buy a second copy

01:56:21   of the same product I already have.

01:56:23   But now that there's new ones

01:56:24   that are slightly better in some way, I'll buy those.

01:56:26   So AirPods are an amazing product.

01:56:28   Whatever that was like,

01:56:29   if AirPods were a company by itself,

01:56:31   it would be in somewhere really high up in the Fortune 500.

01:56:34   They're great products.

01:56:35   There deserves to be a version two of these

01:56:37   for people who like little gummy things

01:56:38   shoved in their ear holes.

01:56:40   (laughs)

01:56:41   - No, I couldn't agree more.

01:56:42   Like, I was an AirPods mega fan, super fan

01:56:46   from the moment I got my first set,

01:56:48   which was not long after they originally shipped.

01:56:51   And the AirPods Pro, I think I got for this past Christmas

01:56:53   from Aaron, and they make the, assuming they fit

01:56:57   in your ears, they make the original AirPods way better.

01:56:59   Like, the noise cancellation is, I wouldn't say it's so good

01:57:03   in the sense that it's better than other headphones'

01:57:05   noise cancellation, but it's so good in the sense

01:57:07   that it makes using the AirPods so much nicer

01:57:10   because if you're in a loud environment,

01:57:12   suddenly it can become a quiet environment

01:57:15   and that's so amazing.

01:57:16   So yeah, I am not personally in the market

01:57:19   for new AirPods Pro because mine are still

01:57:21   only eight, nine months old and their batteries

01:57:24   are still working quite well,

01:57:25   but I don't want this product to be abandoned

01:57:28   and I'd very much like them to show

01:57:30   that they are willing to keep making new ones.

01:57:33   - No fear of them abandoning it.

01:57:34   It's just the question of is,

01:57:35   Are the AirPods Pro 2 ready yet or not?

01:57:37   - Yeah, I mean, I was specifically talking about the Pros.

01:57:40   I don't think that AirPods as a general idea

01:57:42   will be abandoned, but particularly the AirPods Pro.

01:57:44   And I still think you're right,

01:57:45   I don't think those will be abandoned either,

01:57:46   but I don't know, it's been a couple years.

01:57:48   It'd be nice to know that things are still happening.

01:57:50   - Yeah, I have been waiting to upgrade mine

01:57:54   because my battery life is getting to be

01:57:56   pretty terrible on my AirPods.

01:57:59   And it is kind of showing me,

01:58:02   'cause with the exception of the battery life,

01:58:03   my AirPod Pros still work great.

01:58:06   And it is kind of showing me like,

01:58:08   wow, this is kind of a crappy thing for,

01:58:10   you know, environmentalism and sustainability

01:58:12   that this product is, like I'm ready to replace it

01:58:15   and basically throw it away solely because the batteries

01:58:18   really need to be replaced, but that they can't

01:58:20   because they're too tiny and you know, impractical

01:58:22   and glued in and whatever else.

01:58:24   But yeah, so that, all that aside,

01:58:26   I really hope they update these soon

01:58:28   because I don't wanna buy a new pair of the current ones

01:58:31   because they are so old, but if Apple came out and said,

01:58:34   hey, you know what, we're not gonna update

01:58:35   in front of their year, I would end up just buying

01:58:38   another set 'cause I use them so much.

01:58:40   They are such a good product.

01:58:42   I love the AirPods Pro.

01:58:45   They have made all other portable headphones useless to me.

01:58:50   I don't use any other portable headphones.

01:58:53   I only use my big, fancy headphones at my desk

01:58:57   and I use the AirPods when I'm not at my desk

01:58:59   and that's it, AirPod Pros, and that's it.

01:59:02   And I love transparency mode, I love noise canceling,

01:59:05   I love, the sound quality is extremely good

01:59:08   for what they are, and I actually like the stems.

01:59:10   I don't want them to go stemless,

01:59:12   I like having the stems for lots of reasons.

01:59:14   Like I think the pressure clicking mechanism

01:59:18   is totally fine, way better than like

01:59:20   the weird ear tapping thing on the other ones.

01:59:22   - I have to say an update on that,

01:59:24   because remember I got the AirPods 3

01:59:25   that have the squeezy thing instead of the tapping.

01:59:28   I do it, I continue to do it less frequently,

01:59:31   but I still tap them sometimes.

01:59:32   And that's like a year after I got them.

01:59:34   And I'm kind of amazed.

01:59:35   I thought I would just totally get over it,

01:59:37   but like in a few moments, my body just has tapped.

01:59:39   I liked the tap.

01:59:41   I understand why people didn't like it.

01:59:42   There are pros and cons to both,

01:59:44   but I have to say for my purposes,

01:59:46   the tap was a little bit more convenient.

01:59:48   - No, you're wrong.

01:59:49   - Yeah, I am on Team Marco on this one.

01:59:53   - I mean, the squeeze isn't bad, but it is harder.

01:59:56   it requires more than the tap.

01:59:58   I think people didn't like the tap,

01:59:59   they don't like the idea of hitting something

02:00:00   that's in their ear, right?

02:00:01   'Cause that's uncomfortable,

02:00:02   but I never found it uncomfortable the way they fit

02:00:04   and it's just so much easier to do.

02:00:06   I mean, ideally, and they should totally do this,

02:00:09   why can't they have it support both?

02:00:11   'Cause whatever the accelerometer that does the tap

02:00:13   and the presser sensor for the squeezing,

02:00:15   you can fit those both in there, right?

02:00:17   I mean, just jam it in.

02:00:18   I would love to have it support both then for you to choose.

02:00:22   Do you want to use one, both, neither?

02:00:23   Like that makes perfect sense to me,

02:00:25   but maybe in a few years they'll do that.

02:00:27   - Yeah, anyway, yeah, so they're a great product.

02:00:30   There's really not much I would change about them, really.

02:00:34   So whatever Apple has updated,

02:00:36   even if it's fairly minor updates, I'll take it,

02:00:40   because it's already a great product

02:00:41   that really needs very little to change.

02:00:44   - And the final, final rumor, the one more thing

02:00:46   that is not really rumored for this,

02:00:47   but it's just in the news,

02:00:48   because Apple filed a bunch of trademarks.

02:00:50   Apple, through shell companies apparently,

02:00:52   Apple has filed for trademarks for Reality One.

02:00:54   reality processor and reality pro,

02:00:57   we think the OS is called ROS or reality OS,

02:00:59   this is for the AR, VR, whatever, muhusi thingamabobber,

02:01:03   that someday might come out.

02:01:04   I haven't seen any real people putting any stake

02:01:07   in the idea that it's going to be announced

02:01:10   at next week's event, but just FYI,

02:01:12   that continues to rumble on the background,

02:01:14   just like the car program.

02:01:15   - Yep, they're both gonna ship any day now, I swear.

02:01:19   - And look, it very well might be next week,

02:01:22   But I don't know, it seems like we're still,

02:01:26   it's one of those things like desktop Linux,

02:01:28   it's always coming out next year.

02:01:30   And I don't know, at some point it probably will come out.

02:01:35   I think, again, I think that we probably will see

02:01:38   an AR headset of some kind,

02:01:40   while I think we will never see anything

02:01:41   from Project Titan except maybe the Magcarplay thing.

02:01:44   But this allegedly is soon,

02:01:50   And it might be-- and maybe the meaning of the far out title

02:01:54   of the invitation.

02:01:55   Maybe the meaning is, hey, we're going

02:01:57   to show you something that's kind of a preview of-- maybe

02:02:00   we'll get that rumored developer preview mixed AR/VR headset

02:02:07   now, or VR only maybe now.

02:02:10   And then maybe this is-- and they're saying, oh,

02:02:12   down the road, within two years, we'll

02:02:14   ship the consumer version.

02:02:17   Who knows?

02:02:17   Still seems more like a WWDC announcement,

02:02:19   just because it's presumably a platform.

02:02:23   - It also, it seems like that might even be

02:02:26   a different event kind of announcement.

02:02:27   Like, I don't know if they would necessarily

02:02:30   combine that with the iPhone event.

02:02:33   'Cause the iPhone event is so important,

02:02:35   they have the most attention on that,

02:02:38   and what everybody wants to know is, what's the new phone?

02:02:41   That's what they wanna know.

02:02:42   And they throw the watch in just 'cause it's convenient

02:02:44   and it's not that long usually.

02:02:46   - And AirPods can fit in there, 'cause it's fine.

02:02:47   - Yeah AirPods are kind of, watches and AirPods

02:02:50   are both kind of phone accessories

02:02:51   and so like that makes some sense

02:02:53   and you know you can see why they do it.

02:02:55   I can't imagine them, unless the AR headset

02:02:59   is ready for consumers, 'cause then it would be

02:03:02   a phone accessory, you know.

02:03:04   - A headset with no apps is ready for consumers?

02:03:06   - I mean the Apple Watch launched kind of like that.

02:03:08   - I know, I mean I suppose, but like.

02:03:11   - Yeah I mean I just don't see it,

02:03:14   I think if it was that close to being ready for consumers,

02:03:17   I think we would have heard a lot more concrete rumors

02:03:19   about it by now.

02:03:20   - We've had a lot of concrete rumors.

02:03:21   Like you've seen the testing OS,

02:03:23   you've seen the descriptions of the hardware.

02:03:25   Like it's just, you know,

02:03:25   none of those things were products that were ready to ship.

02:03:27   Like at this point, the headset project at Apple

02:03:31   has been functioning for what, the past five years,

02:03:34   six years as basically a space program inside Apple.

02:03:36   And that lots of technologies either made for

02:03:40   or suited to that program have,

02:03:43   we've seen the benefit of them being released

02:03:45   into our other products.

02:03:46   all the noise canceling and directional audio,

02:03:48   spatial audio stuff, all of the 3D engine things,

02:03:51   all of the AR things that are all of our phones

02:03:53   and the LIDAR sensors and all,

02:03:55   that is all eventually, essentially technological bounty

02:03:59   related to the headset project.

02:04:02   Any headset they come out with,

02:04:03   we'll use all of those things.

02:04:05   In the years and years we've been using ARKit

02:04:07   and all that other stuff or whatever,

02:04:08   like it's not like that stuff is useless without a headset,

02:04:11   but you look at that and you're like,

02:04:12   "Oh, stereoscopic vision is an Apple's,

02:04:15   a feature of their 3D engine.

02:04:17   Why would they have that?

02:04:18   Like it's just, like they're almost gonna,

02:04:20   at a certain point they will have literally

02:04:22   shipped everything having to do with this headset

02:04:24   except for the headset.

02:04:25   (laughing)

02:04:26   The software ecosystem will be there,

02:04:27   the sensors will be there, we'll have all the things.

02:04:29   Like, I mean, we know that like,

02:04:30   what was the thing that had like,

02:04:31   you take your phone and you put it in the thing

02:04:33   and that would become your headset?

02:04:34   Samsung did that years and years ago.

02:04:35   - Oh, the cardboard thing?

02:04:37   - Yeah, or no, there was a bunch of ones

02:04:39   where you used your phone as the display.

02:04:40   It was like, Apple has just, unlike the car thing,

02:04:42   which we haven't seen anything from

02:04:44   except for that, you know, various,

02:04:45   the iteration of CarPlay that showed up at W3C.

02:04:48   We have been, like this program,

02:04:50   even if it never ships a product,

02:04:52   has given us lots of cool technology

02:04:55   that has been useful in products that Apple did ship.

02:04:57   So I don't have a bad feeling about,

02:05:01   I don't know, I don't have a sour feeling about this.

02:05:02   Oh, they've been working on this for years

02:05:03   and they never shipped it.

02:05:04   At least we're getting good stuff from it, right?

02:05:06   Even if it never ships.

02:05:07   And I think probably eventually it will,

02:05:09   but it doesn't seem like it's gonna be a thing

02:05:11   for next week.

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02:06:27   - So I've been battling in my office here

02:06:31   for the last few weeks.

02:06:33   My office has had a smell.

02:06:36   - Have you considered showering?

02:06:38   - It is not, it doesn't feel like an Apple store.

02:06:39   - That's it. (laughs)

02:06:42   - We had, there was an object that was placed in my office

02:06:46   that ended up having an odor on it,

02:06:49   like a cologne kind of smell,

02:06:51   like a very strong cologne kind of smell.

02:06:54   And I realized that it was in my office for a few hours

02:06:57   until I discovered it.

02:06:58   So I got rid of the object.

02:07:00   It didn't smell as bad when it was first there.

02:07:03   Over the following days, it slowly built up in my office

02:07:07   and it just smelled overwhelmingly of cologne,

02:07:10   like 80s cologne.

02:07:12   - Wait, if the object is gone,

02:07:14   how is it building up over time?

02:07:16   - I don't know.

02:07:17   So it was placed on an upholstered chair

02:07:21   that I have in the corner. - Oh no, no.

02:07:23   It's soaked in.

02:07:24   My office, the reason why I sound so good

02:07:27   is because my office is full of soft things.

02:07:33   I have the upholstered chair, I have window curtains,

02:07:38   I have a wall in front of me where most of the wall

02:07:42   is covered in acoustic foam tiles.

02:07:45   On another side of me I have a blanket

02:07:49   that's wrapped around a canvas with sound deadening foam

02:07:52   on the inside, so it's basically like,

02:07:54   it looks like a big frame, like a big like picture

02:07:56   of blanket that absorbs sound.

02:07:58   And then behind me, I have a whole bunch of

02:08:01   coffee shipping bags that are themselves

02:08:04   wrapped around canvas frames with sound editing foam

02:08:06   inside them for more sound editing.

02:08:08   And then below me is a five by seven carpet,

02:08:12   a dog bed, and well, at the moment, also a dog.

02:08:15   And so my room is full of all of these soft things

02:08:20   In a very small, this is a very small room.

02:08:23   It's eyeballing it, it looks like it's maybe like,

02:08:26   you know, maybe eight by 10 at most.

02:08:28   It's a small room.

02:08:30   - You need to stop talking about your small room

02:08:32   'cause you keep saying, I've seen pictures of it.

02:08:34   I'm in a small room, you are not.

02:08:35   - Anyway, so the object was gone

02:08:39   and the chair cushion smelled bad

02:08:42   but because it had been here for a few hours,

02:08:45   I feel like the smell had permeated

02:08:49   every soft surface in the room.

02:08:51   'Cause like the sound board,

02:08:53   like the sound editing coffee bag

02:08:54   that was above the chair also smelled like,

02:08:57   I took it out of the room

02:08:58   so I could smell it independently.

02:08:59   And it smelled, it had the smell.

02:09:01   And so did the couple of framed ones next to it.

02:09:05   And some of this stuff,

02:09:06   so I have one of those Instagram rugs

02:09:08   that you can throw in the washing machine.

02:09:09   So that's the first thing I did,

02:09:11   like all right, let me wash the rug.

02:09:12   And like my desk sits on this rug.

02:09:16   So getting the rug out from under your desk

02:09:18   is not a small task, it was like a big job.

02:09:21   Anyway, so, lots of stuff, like filing cabinets on the rug.

02:09:27   Anyway, so, went through all these hoops.

02:09:31   I first tried, we don't have great options here

02:09:35   at the BeakShound for gear to remove this.

02:09:38   Nobody has carpet steamers or anything,

02:09:39   but the little corner store sells Febreze.

02:09:42   So first I'm like, oh, that should work.

02:09:44   Febreze is supposed to get rid of smells, right?

02:09:47   - Oh, you're just masking it.

02:09:49   - I learned that.

02:09:50   So first, I try getting rid of the smell with Febreze.

02:09:54   I go through a whole bottle of it,

02:09:57   like all within five minutes.

02:09:58   - No, no, your office smells like Febreze.

02:10:00   - Yeah, I soak the chair,

02:10:02   I spray every one of the soft things on the wall,

02:10:05   I spray the rug, I spray my chair,

02:10:08   even though it's an Aeron,

02:10:09   like it doesn't really have upholstery,

02:10:11   it just has like this mesh,

02:10:12   but spray everything,

02:10:14   'cause everything that could possibly hold the smell,

02:10:16   I smell, I spray with Febreze.

02:10:18   Now my whole office smells like fricking Febreze.

02:10:20   So I'm like, all right, that didn't work.

02:10:23   And it's, and like, and the smell,

02:10:24   like right before I did the, I did the Febreze,

02:10:27   the cologne smell was so strong

02:10:30   that it was like making my eyes water.

02:10:32   Like it was like, I had to do something.

02:10:34   So then I Febreze the whole office.

02:10:37   And meanwhile, this process started while Tiff had COVID

02:10:41   and had temporarily lost her smell.

02:10:43   - Oh, nice.

02:10:43   She thinks you're just losing your marbles.

02:10:46   - I'm going nuts and yeah, and she's like,

02:10:49   what are you doing?

02:10:49   It doesn't smell bad.

02:10:50   I'm like, I assure you it smells terrible.

02:10:53   I think my eyes are watering and I'm like.

02:10:57   - By the way though, that is one of the things

02:11:00   that can be a side effect of COVID

02:11:02   is that things can smell and taste weird

02:11:05   even after you've gotten over it

02:11:06   or even if you never lost your sense of taste or smell

02:11:09   when you had it.

02:11:10   Afterwards, things can taste and smell differently to you

02:11:13   So it may be that you have an increased sensitivity

02:11:16   to whatever this cologne is.

02:11:18   Maybe you should have a third party nose come in

02:11:21   and say, "How bad does it smell?"

02:11:24   I mean, right now it probably does sell

02:11:26   really bad of Febreze, but.

02:11:27   - And by the way, this is not something

02:11:29   that can be aired out, because while Tiff had COVID,

02:11:33   as a precaution to try to make Adam and I not get it,

02:11:37   we, as I mentioned, like we were sleeping

02:11:39   in different rooms, different sides of the house even,

02:11:41   and we had all of the windows open

02:11:44   and we live on the beach where there's tons of wind

02:11:46   all the time.

02:11:47   So the house was a wind tunnel

02:11:50   and still, you'd still come into the room

02:11:52   and you'd smell it and later on,

02:11:54   after we were all clear, we closed all the windows up

02:11:57   and turned the air conditioning on for a few days

02:11:58   and it was unbearable 'cause now it's trapped in the room.

02:12:01   So all right, so first,

02:12:03   I go on Amazon, I'm like, all right,

02:12:06   what the heck can I get for this,

02:12:08   that I can get shipped here?

02:12:11   Washing everything is just not working.

02:12:13   The chair, I can't wash most of it.

02:12:16   The dog bed, I wash that, I could do that, all right, fine.

02:12:20   The rug, but the stuff on the walls,

02:12:22   I can't wash all this stuff.

02:12:24   So I'm like, all right, so first,

02:12:26   based on everyone's recommendations

02:12:27   and Amazon reviews and everything,

02:12:29   I tried a HEPA filter, an air filter,

02:12:32   I got one that had a really thick carbon layer

02:12:36   on the filter so it'll absorb a lot of smells.

02:12:38   It's made for like VOCs, which smells kind of R, I think.

02:12:42   And then I also tried, they have these canisters

02:12:46   that have mesh tops that have gel in them

02:12:50   that is scented with natural oils.

02:12:53   It's like, you know, pine oil.

02:12:54   - You gotta stop bringing scents into this room.

02:12:56   Have you learned nothing?

02:12:57   Do not add any new scents.

02:12:59   - Well, people claim that these things work,

02:13:02   that somehow the pine oil evaporates or whatever,

02:13:06   and I'm like, well, look, I'm desperate.

02:13:08   to people whose houses all smell like air freshener.

02:13:10   - You know, because ordering things has, you know,

02:13:12   a three or four day delay here, I'm like,

02:13:14   let me just buy one of everything, like I'll just try.

02:13:17   So I bought a little air filter that said

02:13:18   it was gonna do this, you know, again,

02:13:19   because it's a small room, I don't need a big air filter,

02:13:21   so that was at least not too big or expensive.

02:13:24   Little HEPA filter, I got these, you know,

02:13:26   little canisters, and I got a couple of different sprays

02:13:29   that were supposed to like neutralize odors.

02:13:31   And oh, and I was about to leave for a couple days.

02:13:34   And so I left the two, I got two of these little like,

02:13:38   you know, air freshening things that allegedly kill smells

02:13:41   with natural oils of whatever.

02:13:43   I got two of them.

02:13:44   I left them both in the office with the fan on high

02:13:47   and the air filter running on full blast

02:13:48   and I closed the door and I left for two days.

02:13:51   - Wait, wait, wait.

02:13:51   One of the first things I would have suggested to you

02:13:54   and you're always going off and doing these things

02:13:56   without consulting us and you really should consult us.

02:13:58   But the thing that was sitting on an upholstered chair,

02:14:03   - Right, and you got rid of the thing.

02:14:06   Is the upholstered chair still in the room?

02:14:09   - First thing I tried was taking the chair out of the room.

02:14:12   - Yeah, take it out of your house.

02:14:14   - Well, it's not that-- - Throw it in the ocean.

02:14:17   - First of all, it's a very good chair

02:14:18   and they don't make it anymore, but so--

02:14:20   - No, but Marco, you already have a solution for this.

02:14:23   As we've already established,

02:14:25   there is a portion of your deck or under deck area

02:14:27   that is completely weatherproof that you could've put it in.

02:14:30   (laughing)

02:14:31   That's it.

02:14:32   Anyway, so yeah, first thing I tried,

02:14:34   I brought the chair out of the room

02:14:35   and just let it sit for a while.

02:14:37   Where did you bring it?

02:14:39   To the room that's next to the room?

02:14:41   Yeah, but--

02:14:42   You need to get it out of the house.

02:14:44   Because you have-- look, smell is not magic.

02:14:47   Smell comes from somewhere.

02:14:48   Whether it's these-- you said it smelled like this cologne

02:14:54   or whatever.

02:14:55   And there was an object that had that smell that

02:14:57   sat on the thing.

02:14:58   Once the object is no longer in the house,

02:15:00   So if the smell continues to be there and get stronger,

02:15:03   whatever was in that thing must be in something else.

02:15:05   You need to, if you can't purge that thing of the smell,

02:15:09   which is what you've been trying to do

02:15:10   with various techniques, you need to get the source

02:15:12   of the smell out of your house.

02:15:14   And then what you have left is how much of that smell

02:15:17   has sunk into some other stuff.

02:15:18   But it sounds like the source of the smell is still there.

02:15:20   Putting it in another room is not gonna help.

02:15:22   You've just gotta burn it with fire

02:15:23   if you can't get the smell out of it.

02:15:25   - Well, it did help.

02:15:26   It helped a lot to move out of my office,

02:15:28   just so I could tell how much is a problem with the chair

02:15:33   versus how much is so tuned to everything else in the office.

02:15:35   Sure enough, my office still smells.

02:15:37   I'm like, all right, now we've moved beyond the chair.

02:15:39   - But it's still in the house.

02:15:41   You have not moved beyond the chair.

02:15:42   Just think of it as a video game

02:15:44   where you can see smell vapors,

02:15:46   green smell vapors coming out of that chair.

02:15:48   Yeah, you moved it out of your office

02:15:49   so it's not as bad as it was

02:15:50   and it's being dispersed into the larger room,

02:15:52   but it might still be there.

02:15:53   So after I stunk up my whole office with Febreze,

02:15:58   which didn't work, it just made everything

02:16:00   smell like Febreze, and I tried clearing that off

02:16:03   with the air filter and everything else.

02:16:06   - It's like buying a mongoose to go after the snake

02:16:08   and then buying a lion to go after the mongoose.

02:16:11   - So then I had these canisters of gel

02:16:14   that smell like pine or lemon or whatever.

02:16:16   - No, no!

02:16:17   - I'm like, let me open these up in here,

02:16:19   I'll let it run with the air filter for a couple days,

02:16:21   I'll come back, I'll get rid of them,

02:16:23   and I'll see if it can normalize, right?

02:16:26   So I come back and now the room just smells

02:16:29   like pine lemon cologne, Febreze.

02:16:33   - Who could have predicted this?

02:16:34   Who could have predicted this?

02:16:35   (laughing)

02:16:37   - I mean, I love when things smell like nothing.

02:16:41   I consider it a luxury.

02:16:42   I wear unscented deodorant.

02:16:44   I like unscented laundry detergent.

02:16:46   I don't want scents on anything.

02:16:48   I want everything unscented.

02:16:50   - Why did you bring new scents into your home?

02:16:52   - So you brought a thing that said pine scent

02:16:55   and you left it in the room.

02:16:56   - It said it would get rid of other scents,

02:16:57   so I figured I'd give it a shot.

02:16:59   - Replacing them with pine.

02:17:00   Congratulations, you've played yourself.

02:17:02   Oh my word.

02:17:04   - So now that my room smells like cologne and pine

02:17:06   and lemon and Febreze, finally I tried this other spray

02:17:11   I had called zero odor.

02:17:13   So I tried spraying the cushion of the chair,

02:17:16   like where the object was sitting,

02:17:17   that was like the most dense part of the cologne.

02:17:19   I tried just dousing it in the zero odor stuff.

02:17:22   I later learned, a few minutes later,

02:17:24   Zero Odor itself has a smell.

02:17:27   (laughing)

02:17:28   They call it a tracer scent,

02:17:30   so you can tell where you smell it.

02:17:31   That's supposed to dissipate?

02:17:33   - It's like the stuff they put in natural gas.

02:17:35   - Right?

02:17:35   That tracer scent smells quite strongly

02:17:38   of like baby powder or bleach or something like that.

02:17:41   It smells very strongly,

02:17:42   and it doesn't dissipate for a while.

02:17:45   However, I did notice after a couple of days

02:17:48   that it did go away,

02:17:50   and that the smell on the cushion

02:17:52   was substantially reduced.

02:17:55   So I'm like, okay, I got something that works.

02:17:58   - Have you gotten rid of the pine thing?

02:18:00   - Almost, they're in a plastic bag,

02:18:02   ziplocked next to me, just so I could--

02:18:03   - Would you just throw them out?

02:18:05   - They were outside, I brought them back in for the show

02:18:07   so I wouldn't forget to mention them.

02:18:09   They're sitting right here next to the bottle of Zero.

02:18:10   - Ziplock bags are air permeable.

02:18:12   - I've learned that, but yeah,

02:18:14   but anyway, they were just here for like an hour.

02:18:17   But I realized, okay, the cushion was improved

02:18:21   by the zero odor spray.

02:18:23   I'm now out of zero odor.

02:18:24   Let me order a couple of bottles more.

02:18:26   So they come and I got two more bottles of it.

02:18:31   They come and I spend the next few days

02:18:35   just dousing my office in this stuff,

02:18:37   which then makes my office smell like zero odor,

02:18:40   which does not have zero odor.

02:18:43   - Sounds like it's non-zero odor.

02:18:44   - Oh my, yeah, it's definitely significant odor

02:18:47   for a little while, but then I at least know

02:18:49   there's an end to it.

02:18:50   Like, it ends in a couple days.

02:18:51   - They should be forced to rename their product to Rendezvous.

02:18:53   (laughing)

02:18:56   - Wow, that's a deep cut.

02:18:58   Anyway, so eventually though, it did work.

02:19:03   And meanwhile, so, and every night,

02:19:05   like, you know, the air filter is loud as hell,

02:19:08   but every night, I'm, like, when I leave my office,

02:19:11   I turn the air filter on maximum and close the door

02:19:14   and just let it run itself overnight,

02:19:16   like just filtering everything.

02:19:17   As far as I can tell, the air filter seems to be doing

02:19:19   nothing because it's just circulating clean air

02:19:21   that is still having smell being emitted into it

02:19:23   constantly by whatever.

02:19:24   Anyway, so I zero odor a few more times.

02:19:27   I deplete both bottles that I bought.

02:19:31   So now I'm three bottles down on zero odor.

02:19:33   - Oh my gosh.

02:19:34   - But it is working.

02:19:36   Like the areas that I spray, then a few days later,

02:19:40   actually do smell less or like nothing.

02:19:43   - Or it's just slowly killing your olfactory receptors

02:19:46   so you can't smell anything anymore.

02:19:47   - Eh, potato, potato.

02:19:48   - I eventually bought this thing called Zero Odor Pro,

02:19:51   which-- - Oh, of course you did.

02:19:53   - I think it's just the same thing in a bigger bottle.

02:19:55   - It just has the newer SOC in it.

02:19:57   - Yeah. (both laughing)

02:20:00   So now I have the large bottle, the full-size bottle,

02:20:04   which I have right here, Zero Odor Pro.

02:20:06   The other day, I sprayed every surface in the office

02:20:11   that was soft.

02:20:12   the window blinds, the acoustic tiles, the acoustic panels,

02:20:16   the rug, the dog bed, not the dog, the cushion.

02:20:20   I like doused the cushion, 'cause everyone says like,

02:20:22   if you, like, you gotta, for it to work, you gotta,

02:20:25   it has to be like damp, like when you're done.

02:20:27   It has to, you have to really spray a lot.

02:20:28   I sprayed every single surface of the office.

02:20:31   It was unbearable to be in here.

02:20:33   (laughing)

02:20:34   For like, for like the entire 24 hours after that period.

02:20:38   It was way too much.

02:20:39   I definitely should not have done that

02:20:42   in such a small space to that density of spray in one day.

02:20:46   It was unbearable.

02:20:48   However, - Oh my word.

02:20:50   - Now it is a few days later and the smell is, I think,

02:20:55   totally gone for the first time in three weeks.

02:20:59   I feel like I have finally won.

02:21:01   I have defeated the cologne.

02:21:03   I have defeated the Febreze.

02:21:05   I have defeated the air fresheners.

02:21:07   - I'm not sure you defeated anything.

02:21:09   It may be that time defeated these things.

02:21:11   So here's the thing with smells, right?

02:21:12   If you remove the source of the smell

02:21:15   and you just have lingering things

02:21:17   that have picked up the smell,

02:21:18   most smells, the reason you smell them,

02:21:20   I mean, the VOCs are volatile organic compounds,

02:21:22   is that things that smell bad tend to be volatile,

02:21:25   which means they are reacting with everything.

02:21:27   They are reacting with the air,

02:21:28   which means if the source of them is gone,

02:21:31   eventually all of those volatile compounds

02:21:34   will react with just the air in the room

02:21:36   and they will go away.

02:21:37   Now that may take a long time.

02:21:39   - I fed them so much air.

02:21:40   - Right, well, so, but I'm just saying,

02:21:42   it may take a lot of time, and yes,

02:21:44   having contact with more air will speed that process up,

02:21:46   but it may take a while, right?

02:21:48   A lot of, what you were actually looking for

02:21:50   in the case where you're trying to, quote unquote,

02:21:51   get rid of a smell, I don't know what the solution is

02:21:54   to cologne, but for things like a lot of pet odors,

02:21:56   where it's, you know, organic compounds,

02:21:58   as in, you know, pet pee or poo and stuff like that,

02:22:00   or, you know, anal gland secretions

02:22:02   and all sorts of stuff like that, or even skunk odor,

02:22:04   there are things that you can buy specifically

02:22:08   for whatever it is, like, say your dog got skunked,

02:22:10   which happened to me.

02:22:11   I learned the hard way that there's lots of lilies,

02:22:13   folk remedies or whatever, but what you really want

02:22:15   is a tailor-made product that will cause

02:22:18   the volatile compounds in skunk spray

02:22:21   to react much, much faster.

02:22:23   So I think we use like nature's miracle brand

02:22:25   or whatever that was specifically for skunk smell.

02:22:28   - Oh, I used some of that too.

02:22:29   - Right. - Forgot about that.

02:22:30   - But here's the thing.

02:22:31   - I have that and used that the very first day.

02:22:34   - Those things are tailored to reacting

02:22:36   with whatever it is they say they're for,

02:22:37   whether it's for de-skunking or animal pee or whatever,

02:22:41   they're almost certainly gonna do nothing to cologne,

02:22:43   which is your problem, but cologne, if it's very smelly,

02:22:46   probably is itself some kind of volatile compound.

02:22:48   So what you need is,

02:22:50   either something that's going to quote unquote absorb odor,

02:22:52   like baking powder or charcoal, activated charcoal, whatever.

02:22:55   - Try baking powder the very first day.

02:22:57   - Right, but better yet,

02:22:58   you need something that will react with this thing

02:23:00   to sort of burn it out faster.

02:23:02   But I don't know what the heck you would ever get

02:23:05   to react with cologne, right?

02:23:08   All these products are made for,

02:23:09   like your pet had an accident

02:23:11   or you got skunked or something, right?

02:23:13   And they're tailor-made to those,

02:23:15   whatever is the smelly thing in cat pee

02:23:18   or in skunk spray, right?

02:23:20   But I don't think cologne hopefully uses

02:23:23   any of the same ingredients as cat pee or skunk spray.

02:23:26   So that's probably why you had a hard time.

02:23:27   So I don't know what your solution should have been,

02:23:29   but that's what you're looking for.

02:23:30   You're not looking for a thing

02:23:31   that will add a piney scent or whatever.

02:23:33   Now maybe that zero odor thing is that,

02:23:36   but I wonder if it's formulated for cologne

02:23:39   or if it's just sort of like nuke everything

02:23:41   and try to react with everything

02:23:43   that you come in contact with and burn it out.

02:23:45   But I think the other plausible theory is,

02:23:48   if you had done literally nothing,

02:23:49   your room would smell the same now

02:23:51   except for maybe with less of a pine scent

02:23:53   because it would have eventually burned itself out

02:23:55   because you, yeah, it would have eventually burned itself out

02:23:58   no matter what over the course of a week

02:24:00   because that's just what smells do.

02:24:01   If you've removed the source of the smell

02:24:03   and if there's no new smell coming in,

02:24:05   it should eventually sort of burn itself out.

02:24:07   Even if there was a pile of poop in your room.

02:24:09   If you wait a year, your room won't smell like poo anymore

02:24:11   'cause the pile of poo will be all just dried out

02:24:13   and just, you know,

02:24:14   like obviously that's the worst case scenario.

02:24:16   But anyway, what you did is I think a good lesson

02:24:19   in the fact that you can't cover up smells.

02:24:22   (beeping)