486: Field Day at Apple Park


00:00:00   I packed totally wrong for this trip.

00:00:02   - Oh, tell me more.

00:00:03   This is our pre-show then.

00:00:04   I'm already interested.

00:00:06   What is going on?

00:00:07   - So first of all, hi everyone.

00:00:08   I'm in California on vacation.

00:00:10   Not really on vacation.

00:00:11   - Always on vacation in California.

00:00:12   - Yeah, so I'm in California.

00:00:14   Apple summoned a few of us out

00:00:17   kind of at the last minute last week

00:00:19   and so we made the pilgrimage to this wonderful event

00:00:22   and frankly, I'm pretty impressed by the event

00:00:25   which we'll get to in a little bit.

00:00:26   But anyway, I didn't bring the bell or the Viber Slab

00:00:31   or my computer's hat.

00:00:33   - What are you even doing?

00:00:34   - I know, it's been so long since I've traveled

00:00:37   to this conference, I forgot how to do it.

00:00:39   - I'm so sad.

00:00:40   - Yeah, and I had to borrow an ethernet cable

00:00:41   from Underscore.

00:00:42   - He had it in his pocket.

00:00:45   - Yeah, of course, he had a special pocket in his jacket

00:00:47   just for ethernet cables.

00:00:48   - You joke, but that is possible.

00:00:50   - Did he have a bell, did you ask?

00:00:52   I don't care about the Viber Slab.

00:00:55   - Well, so we just can't talk about network attack storage

00:00:57   or certain file storage mechanisms.

00:01:00   - Well, I looked at the sessions and I did a search

00:01:03   for file and I did a search for time

00:01:05   and I was very disappointed.

00:01:06   (laughing)

00:01:07   - I'm so sorry.

00:01:08   I noticed you avoided the acronym.

00:01:09   Very well done, John. - I'm trying to make

00:01:10   you not have to use the bell.

00:01:11   - Thank you, yeah.

00:01:12   - I don't know if that'll last through the whole podcast,

00:01:14   but I'll do what I can.

00:01:15   - We have a professional discipline going on here.

00:01:17   This is, you know.

00:01:18   - And if I mess up, you have to make the noise

00:01:20   with your mouth, Marco.

00:01:21   (laughing)

00:01:22   So be prepared for that.

00:01:24   - It's your punishment for forgetting the bell.

00:01:25   I do wanna add though,

00:01:27   if people are feeling bad for me and Casey,

00:01:30   that we were also both invited by Apple,

00:01:33   but had to decline for various reasons.

00:01:36   So don't feel like just they love Marco

00:01:38   and they don't love us.

00:01:39   They love us all almost equally.

00:01:41   - Almost equally.

00:01:43   - Or at least they tolerate us all almost equally.

00:01:44   I mean, we don't know.

00:01:45   - That's probably more accurate.

00:01:46   No, we each got a call from Apple PR

00:01:50   and it was the most,

00:01:53   well, it's not that I'm being hyperbolic,

00:01:54   but it was extremely heartbreaking to say to Apple

00:01:57   after I got this call that, all kidding aside,

00:01:59   not to turn this into analog,

00:02:01   but I've been waiting for this call for years

00:02:04   to be recognized as someone who talks about Apple

00:02:07   and Apple maybe should occasionally remember exists.

00:02:10   I was gonna say pay attention to,

00:02:11   no, no, no, don't even do that.

00:02:12   Just remember that I exist from time to time.

00:02:15   I got this phone call and it was like,

00:02:17   oh my gosh, I finally arrived and I can't come.

00:02:21   So it was both amazing and devastating, and it was the most rollercoaster of a 10-minute

00:02:26   phone call I've had in a long time.

00:02:27   But yes, John and I were offered, and like John said, we couldn't make it for various

00:02:32   uninteresting reasons.

00:02:34   But nevertheless, our field reporter, Mr. Marco Arment, is at the show.

00:02:39   Our West Coast correspondent.

00:02:41   Our West Coast correspondent.

00:02:42   I like that even more.

00:02:43   There you go.

00:02:45   So as our official West Coast correspondent, Marco, could you please give us an update

00:02:48   on the goings on at WWDC?

00:02:51   - It's really quite good.

00:02:54   So before we get into the keynote,

00:02:55   just a quick overview of what the event actually is,

00:02:58   like how it actually went.

00:02:59   And don't worry, we'll save the food for later.

00:03:01   We will get to the food.

00:03:02   But seeing, first of all, this event is

00:03:06   kind of the grand opening of the developer center,

00:03:09   which is the building we've been talking about.

00:03:10   It's kind of across the street from Apple Park,

00:03:11   next to the visitor center.

00:03:13   And it is, no expense has been spared,

00:03:16   No detail has been overlooked.

00:03:18   - Well, there was the crooked E in the LCAP.

00:03:21   (laughing)

00:03:22   - Yes, yes.

00:03:24   - One detail was overlooked, but it was fixed by what,

00:03:26   the developer of Halide fixed it, I think?

00:03:28   - Yeah, I believe so, yeah.

00:03:30   Was LCAP a buggy release?

00:03:31   Were they trying to maybe suggest something?

00:03:34   I forget.

00:03:35   - Leopard was perfectly straight, and that was not great.

00:03:38   - Yeah, I didn't see a lion room.

00:03:39   I think somebody duplicated it and then lost it.

00:03:41   So anyway, the general building, the developer center,

00:03:45   is clearly set up for lots of these,

00:03:49   I think largely still theoretical meetings,

00:03:51   but that in the future will become much more real

00:03:52   of they summon you out there because you have a great new app

00:03:56   that uses, say, CarPlay, and they wanna bring you out there

00:03:59   to teach you how to use CarPlay better,

00:04:00   or something like that.

00:04:02   It seems like the kind of thing that is,

00:04:04   you wait for them to call you, you don't call them, maybe,

00:04:08   but maybe you could reach out through Dev Relations

00:04:10   if you had some reason to come be there.

00:04:13   it seems like it's kind of like a combination

00:04:15   of like a tech talk and a lab kind of space

00:04:17   where you can kind of bring your app to them

00:04:20   and they can like instruct you on some new API

00:04:23   that they're making or if you're one of the developers

00:04:26   that's selected to do like a keynote appearance

00:04:29   for your app or keynote mention of your app,

00:04:31   like hey, so and so, use this new API

00:04:33   and they did the whole conversion in two days.

00:04:35   Like that's a place they can bring you

00:04:37   and have all the secrecy necessary

00:04:40   to show you pre-release stuff

00:04:42   or for you to show them your pre-release stuff.

00:04:44   There's all these different rooms

00:04:45   that have all these different roles,

00:04:47   and it's pretty great.

00:04:48   And there's a lot that we can complain about

00:04:52   with Apple and politics, and we do.

00:04:54   Whenever that comes up, we very much do.

00:04:56   And that's, I think, largely a different

00:04:59   and much smaller part of the company

00:05:01   that makes those kind of decisions.

00:05:03   When you deal with the developer relations people,

00:05:05   who this whole building is kind of

00:05:07   run by developer relations,

00:05:09   they seem like they're really just extremely,

00:05:12   genuinely friendly and happy to help us.

00:05:16   It is kind of, you do have to kind of set aside

00:05:18   all the political and app store policy stuff

00:05:21   in order to fully enjoy it,

00:05:23   but I'll tell you, when you're in person,

00:05:24   you do fully enjoy it, and you do put that aside,

00:05:26   because clearly the developer relations team

00:05:29   really is super into their job.

00:05:31   It seems like it's possibly one of the more fun jobs

00:05:34   at Apple, if I had to guess.

00:05:36   It seems like they really are super into

00:05:39   just being helpful and actually,

00:05:41   they call themselves evangelists

00:05:42   and for a lot of the positions

00:05:43   and I think that's a decent word to describe what they do.

00:05:46   And so the whole building really kind of,

00:05:50   it really exuded that quality of just like,

00:05:52   they love their jobs, they wanna create fun stuff for us,

00:05:56   they wanna help us out and none of the BS

00:05:59   about the policy stuff really enters the discussion

00:06:02   in that building and that's good.

00:06:04   You know, it's, first of all, that isn't their job

00:06:06   and second of all, it's nice to have a reprieve from that.

00:06:08   and to just be able to enjoy this as a developer,

00:06:11   you know, as an engineer and not worry about all that,

00:06:13   all the, you know, weird politics stuff.

00:06:14   So it was actually really nice.

00:06:16   I think time will tell how this building

00:06:20   gets used in the future.

00:06:22   How easy is it if you want to come to, you know,

00:06:25   one of these labs in this building

00:06:26   or if you want help that would require coming out here,

00:06:29   like, how easy is that to do?

00:06:31   Do you have to, you know,

00:06:34   do you have to wait for them to ask you?

00:06:35   Do you have to, like, wait months to get in there?

00:06:37   You know, how does that work?

00:06:38   How does this scale?

00:06:39   Do they end up building more of these?

00:06:41   I think those are all open questions right now.

00:06:44   They already have similar kinds of buildings

00:06:46   in India and China.

00:06:48   And then there's also these accelerators

00:06:49   in different places, that's a slightly different concept.

00:06:52   But yeah, so it's interesting to see how they,

00:06:55   how this expands in the future

00:06:56   and how it's used in the future.

00:06:57   But so far, it's pretty great.

00:07:01   - That's awesome.

00:07:01   And so that was the developer center,

00:07:03   but you got a tour of that, what, yesterday

00:07:05   as we recorded this on Sunday?

00:07:07   - It was this morning, yeah.

00:07:08   - Oh, it was this morning, oh, okay, okay.

00:07:10   - Yeah, I wasn't there early enough for yesterday,

00:07:12   so I took it this morning.

00:07:13   But yeah, overall, it was great.

00:07:14   And then, and so for the event today,

00:07:17   just some basics of how this worked.

00:07:18   So my experience was a little bit different

00:07:22   than the developer experience.

00:07:23   I had the media badge, and so we had like

00:07:25   a slightly different track, but it was overall

00:07:27   a lot of overlap.

00:07:28   So we check in, and we were led right into Apple Park,

00:07:33   like right into the main campus,

00:07:36   and they let us all for the pre-keynote waiting area

00:07:39   right into Cafe Max,

00:07:41   the place where the giant doors open up

00:07:43   and in the ring and you basically have

00:07:47   the giant employee cafeteria there.

00:07:49   So the developers were on the main floor,

00:07:51   the media was on this little upper deck area.

00:07:54   We were able to see,

00:07:55   we weren't able to go into the middle of the ring,

00:07:57   but we were able to see the middle and take pictures of it

00:07:59   through the glass and everything.

00:08:00   And we saw the giant rainbow stage

00:08:02   and the beautiful mountain backdrop behind it.

00:08:05   I mean, it's a beautiful place.

00:08:07   I think one of the reasons why they might have chosen

00:08:11   to have this event here is in part to kind of show it off

00:08:13   and in part to just kind of wow us

00:08:15   because this is, being actually in the ring building

00:08:19   is something, we talked about in the past,

00:08:21   it didn't seem like they were ever gonna let

00:08:23   random members from the public into that.

00:08:25   And so it was really great just being let in.

00:08:28   It felt like a special thing.

00:08:30   It felt like we were being shown the secrets

00:08:31   by just being in this campus.

00:08:33   And certainly there's a lot of probably recruiting value

00:08:36   to that, I would say.

00:08:37   Also just like, you know, amping up developers.

00:08:39   You know, there's a lot of value that they have

00:08:40   in energizing us to really feel good about Apple,

00:08:43   to really feel good about their platforms,

00:08:45   to inspire and energize developers to make new stuff.

00:08:48   And that's harder and harder to come by

00:08:51   as the company gets bigger,

00:08:54   as the platforms get more mature and older

00:08:56   and therefore kind of less exciting in certain ways.

00:08:59   And you know, again, as App Store policy stuff

00:09:01   kind of crushes certain people's spirits,

00:09:03   or bad experiences along the way could really affect that.

00:09:05   And so it's harder and harder to come by things

00:09:08   that energize and motivate developers

00:09:11   for established platforms from giant corporations.

00:09:14   It's very hard to motivate us like that.

00:09:16   And this does that, this really very much does that.

00:09:19   Being able to come to this event in this special place

00:09:22   and see this special building and be let in.

00:09:24   And I understand now why they built this ridiculous thing,

00:09:27   'cause that also energizes all their employees

00:09:29   and inspires them and gives people something to aspire to.

00:09:32   Not every employee is even working in this building,

00:09:34   but you can at least aspire to maybe someday

00:09:36   be in one of the departments that works there.

00:09:37   So there's a lot of value to this,

00:09:39   and to see it as an outsider, as a non-employee,

00:09:43   even though it was obviously very tightly controlled,

00:09:45   we're not wandering the halls or anything,

00:09:46   but just to be there and to see that was really quite nice.

00:09:50   And then the actual keynote watching

00:09:54   was not on the Rainbow stage.

00:09:56   It kind of used Cafe Max as the back seating area

00:10:00   and then expanded outwards through those open doors

00:10:03   with probably about 1,000 seats, maybe 2,000 seats,

00:10:06   something like that, all straight up.

00:10:07   And then there was a giant stage kind of outside the ring.

00:10:10   So you started in Cafe Max and kind of expanded out

00:10:12   into the outer area of the ring.

00:10:14   Oh, I did see the fence, but I couldn't get close enough

00:10:16   to take a good picture of it.

00:10:17   (laughing)

00:10:18   It looks incredible.

00:10:19   So anyway, the projection of the theater,

00:10:23   all the details of that were all amazing.

00:10:26   Like, I couldn't believe how good the sound was,

00:10:29   considering the acoustics of the environment.

00:10:31   Like, you are throwing sound across a huge field of people

00:10:35   against a curved glass building.

00:10:38   (laughing)

00:10:39   Just managing the sound reflections of that.

00:10:41   Like, that would have been horrendous

00:10:43   to try to engineer that, but they did it.

00:10:45   I was especially impressed,

00:10:46   like the screen they were projecting onto

00:10:47   was incredibly bright and colorful in direct sun.

00:10:53   - Oh, that's not easy.

00:10:54   - I don't think they were projecting onto it,

00:10:56   wasn't it, like a micro LED display,

00:10:59   where the LEDs are not so micro?

00:11:01   - Yeah, whatever it was,

00:11:02   whatever technology the screen was using,

00:11:04   you're probably right,

00:11:05   it probably couldn't have a projection,

00:11:06   'cause I can't imagine how they get that kind of brightness,

00:11:07   but it was clearly visible, there was no glare,

00:11:10   no reflection, maybe it had nano texture,

00:11:12   but it was just an incredible,

00:11:14   very high production value,

00:11:15   and then I don't know how the livestream started,

00:11:17   like how the broadcast started,

00:11:19   but five minutes earlier than the start time,

00:11:22   Tim Cook comes out on the actual physical stage in person,

00:11:25   and everyone cheers, and he kind of introduced the event

00:11:28   in that five minute span, and Craig came up for

00:11:31   in a minute or two there too, so Tim and Craig were up there

00:11:35   rallying everybody up, everyone cheered for them,

00:11:36   then they left, and then the video actually started,

00:11:39   and there were no other Apple people on stage

00:11:41   after that point.

00:11:42   I assume you didn't see that little intro on the livestream?

00:11:44   - Nope. - Mm-mm, that's correct.

00:11:46   - Yeah, so anyway, yeah, user in the chat, Wulff, says,

00:11:50   Tim Cook was the warm up act to Tim Cook?

00:11:52   Yes.

00:11:53   (laughing)

00:11:54   That's exactly what happened.

00:11:55   - Well done.

00:11:55   - I also heard reports of drones flying overhead.

00:11:58   Did you see any?

00:11:59   - There was one drone that started out

00:12:00   kind of over in the middle and then kind of flew up.

00:12:02   It was clearly like Apple's drone meant for,

00:12:04   you know, probably taking some B roll for the actual event.

00:12:08   But yeah, anyway, it was great.

00:12:11   And then so after the keynote, which was awesome,

00:12:13   and I lucked out so much.

00:12:16   So I was, they set the media in the back.

00:12:19   So all the developers were in the front.

00:12:20   Well, the backmost 10 or 20 rows were in the shade

00:12:25   'cause the building shaded it.

00:12:27   - Ah, nice.

00:12:28   - And so I'm sitting, I brought sunscreen,

00:12:31   TSA stole my sunscreen, I had to buy new sunscreen,

00:12:33   and hats, sunglasses, all this stuff.

00:12:37   And Apple gave out goodie bags to all the developers

00:12:39   that included a hat, sunscreen, a water bottle, masks.

00:12:44   So I now have two of those special Apple Store masks.

00:12:47   So anyway, we are the very first row that's in the shade

00:12:51   as it starts, and then as it progressed,

00:12:52   the sun just added more rows that were in the shade,

00:12:55   so we never lost the sun.

00:12:56   Meanwhile, I looked seven rows ahead of me

00:12:58   was Phil Schiller sitting down.

00:12:59   He was in direct sun.

00:13:01   I had a better seat than Phil Schiller.

00:13:02   (laughing)

00:13:03   - Oh, I don't even know what to make of this.

00:13:04   Like maybe if he came back on our show more often,

00:13:06   maybe he would be moved into the good seats

00:13:08   instead of the cheap ones.

00:13:09   - Yeah, although I did confirm that he was not,

00:13:11   in fact, on the roof.

00:13:12   You know, he is actually still on the ground in Apple Park.

00:13:16   - Oh yeah, I had a nice little chat with him later on.

00:13:18   He's cool. - Oh, that's nice.

00:13:20   Real time follow up, I'm being told

00:13:22   from an anonymous source that the screen was an LED wall.

00:13:25   So take that to mean what you will,

00:13:27   but as you guessed, it is not projection,

00:13:29   it was actual LEDs of some sort.

00:13:30   - Yeah, that makes sense.

00:13:31   And they were, whatever it was, it was fantastic.

00:13:35   So anyway. - That's very cool.

00:13:37   - And then after the presentation,

00:13:40   the developers went back into Cafe Max

00:13:43   to have a big lunch thing,

00:13:44   and then I believe they watched State of the Union

00:13:46   in that same giant venue with the big screen.

00:13:49   Press was led out.

00:13:51   Instead of lunch, we went to the Steve Jobs Theater,

00:13:54   and I've never been there before.

00:13:55   - Oh, no way!

00:13:56   - Yeah, and we just went to the lobby,

00:13:58   like the upstairs big circle of glass.

00:13:59   We didn't actually go down into the theater area,

00:14:02   but in the upstairs glass circle room

00:14:04   was converted into basically a hands-on area

00:14:07   for the new MacBook Air,

00:14:08   which again, we'll get to that in a little bit.

00:14:10   And that's, and that's where, it's funny.

00:14:13   (laughs)

00:14:14   I'll just tell you this now

00:14:15   before I give you my impressions.

00:14:18   So, you know, the hands-on areas at Apple events,

00:14:20   they're full of all of the video people,

00:14:23   like everyone who runs YouTube channels and video media,

00:14:26   all of them are crammed around the product

00:14:28   with their giant cameras trying to get the perfect shot

00:14:30   and trying not to get rid of anyone else in the shot.

00:14:32   And so, you know, those of us who are not video people

00:14:34   will kind of just hang back, give them a little while,

00:14:37   and they take forever.

00:14:38   But, you know, I understand, give them a little while

00:14:39   to get their video shot and get their perfect everything.

00:14:42   and they had all the different colors of the map of the air

00:14:45   around this giant circle of concrete

00:14:48   and the one blue one that was close,

00:14:51   that was like the entire half of the room I was in,

00:14:53   the one blue one, it kept being mobbed by the video people.

00:14:55   Finally, I finally get my chance.

00:14:59   The one person ahead of me just steps away from it.

00:15:01   I go up and I ask the handler, "Oh, can I see this?"

00:15:05   And they say, "Oh, hold on, we have to wait."

00:15:09   And that's the moment that Tim Cook is coming up

00:15:12   for a photo op with that MacBook Air.

00:15:15   (laughing)

00:15:16   So I had to wait for Tim Cook.

00:15:19   (laughing)

00:15:20   And that's not, this is not a fast process.

00:15:22   - Did he take a video of it?

00:15:23   'Cause he's taken a camera,

00:15:24   taking a video of him introducing the MacBook Air

00:15:27   for his channel.

00:15:28   - Yeah, so, and like, when you see,

00:15:30   so you know, Tim Cook, as he approaches like the room,

00:15:35   everyone starts cheering,

00:15:37   people start mobbing in that direction.

00:15:39   - Was he crowd surfing?

00:15:40   - I just stood exactly where I was already standing.

00:15:44   Which, by the way, I will say, this exact same thing

00:15:47   happened when I was looking at the Mac Pro in 2019,

00:15:50   when I was right next to Tim Cook then.

00:15:52   And this is hilarious, 'cause I don't even like

00:15:55   Tim Cook that much.

00:15:56   But like, okay, so when he enters the room,

00:16:01   it's like, he's a celebrity, everyone cheers,

00:16:05   everyone moms him, everyone's shouting, hey Tim!

00:16:07   Everyone's asking questions.

00:16:08   The guy next to me asks, "Tim, are we in a simulation?"

00:16:11   - What?

00:16:13   That's what it's like to be Tim Cook.

00:16:15   - Right, yeah, he gave some neutral response,

00:16:17   like, "No, I think this is the reality," something like that.

00:16:20   But anyway, so I'm just standing around

00:16:22   and everybody is shoving me,

00:16:24   trying to get closer to Tim Cook,

00:16:25   and I'm like, I just want my turn

00:16:27   with this frickin' MacBook Air.

00:16:28   I saw all the other ones, I just wanna see the blue one.

00:16:30   (laughing)

00:16:32   And it's right there, right in front of me.

00:16:33   And because, and I am right there.

00:16:35   And my hope is that I photo bombed every single one

00:16:39   of these people's shots, that they're trying to get

00:16:40   a picture of Tim cocaine on his MacBook Air.

00:16:41   I mean, like, you know, Tim walks up and he's like,

00:16:44   he's like, there were people trying to shoot him

00:16:46   from like across the room with this long lens,

00:16:49   and so he was kind of doing press poses,

00:16:50   and it was kind of like, remember that episode

00:16:53   of Parks and Rec where they have like

00:16:54   the political candidate, and he just kind of like

00:16:57   sits in a room and smiles like a robot,

00:16:59   and you're like, what is he doing?

00:17:00   Like, clearly Tim has done this a lot, right?

00:17:03   And so he walked up very slowly to the MacBook Air.

00:17:07   And he takes selfies with everybody on the way out,

00:17:09   so it takes him a very long time to get there.

00:17:12   So by the time he gets there, he walks right up,

00:17:14   and he opens the lid, holds the MacBook Air up,

00:17:17   he sets it down and types nothing on the key.

00:17:20   He was typing random characters into a computer

00:17:23   that was just showing the desktop, there were no apps open.

00:17:26   But he convincingly looked like he was typing something,

00:17:29   and he used the trackpad to move.

00:17:32   He was doing nothing, but the whole purpose

00:17:35   was just to be photographed, and he obviously knew this

00:17:37   and was prepared for this and everything.

00:17:38   It was a funny thing to see very close up,

00:17:41   'cause they were only like, it was like one person

00:17:44   in front of me and then Tim.

00:17:45   So we were very, very close.

00:17:48   And it just, all the video people trying to shove

00:17:50   their lenses next to my head, and I'm just standing there

00:17:52   smiling, I took like two pictures, and I'm like,

00:17:54   "I'm done, but I'm gonna keep standing here."

00:17:56   Also, I couldn't move, 'cause there were a million people

00:18:00   behind me, locking me into my position.

00:18:02   So I was just like, I'm just gonna enjoy this

00:18:03   for a little while until the crowd dissipates a bit.

00:18:06   So I might be on some random news channel around the world

00:18:11   like in their background footage of Tim Cook

00:18:13   launching the new MacBook Air.

00:18:14   - Should look disgruntled.

00:18:16   When is it gonna be my turn, right?

00:18:17   Tim cut the line.

00:18:18   - And you know what?

00:18:19   I never got a turn.

00:18:21   It was just so mobbed.

00:18:24   And I mean, I could have walked around

00:18:25   to the other side of the room

00:18:26   and gotten a different blue one

00:18:27   with the different mobbed video people around it

00:18:29   for two hours.

00:18:29   But I was like, all right, I saw enough of it.

00:18:32   So I didn't actually touch the blue one.

00:18:34   I did handle a silver one for a while,

00:18:37   and I got a lot of impressions on it,

00:18:38   but we'll get to that later.

00:18:39   But anyway, so that's, anyway,

00:18:40   after that we all went back to the visitor center.

00:18:43   We had some lunch there, downloaded the betas,

00:18:46   bought some shorts for my kid, stuff like that.

00:18:48   And then that's it, and then we came home.

00:18:50   - So you did not have an opportunity

00:18:52   to watch the State of the Union, is that right?

00:18:54   - Oh, I watched it in the visitor center,

00:18:55   like I was eating lunch,

00:18:57   and oh yeah, sat with a few friends of ours, underscore,

00:19:00   and watched the State of the Union together.

00:19:03   - Gotcha, okay.

00:19:04   So I don't even know how to verbalize this.

00:19:07   So did this feel like WWDC to you?

00:19:10   I know that we can barely remember what the real

00:19:14   or traditional WWDC was like.

00:19:16   It was in 2019 was the last time it really happened.

00:19:19   But did this feel anything at all similar?

00:19:21   Did it feel totally different?

00:19:23   How much, if it was different,

00:19:24   was that because you're now a fancy press lad,

00:19:26   or is it different because it's different?

00:19:29   Can you compare and contrast to 2019?

00:19:31   - This is clearly the way forward.

00:19:34   This is definitely how they're gonna keep doing it,

00:19:36   or at least how they should keep doing it.

00:19:38   Frankly, when you see how well this worked

00:19:41   and how happy the Apple people all seem to be

00:19:42   about how well it was working,

00:19:43   and you look at all the advantages it has to them,

00:19:45   I mean, look, there's no conference center involved.

00:19:48   There's no downtown involved to work with for any of this.

00:19:52   You have a smaller scale event

00:19:55   That's like a big in-person celebration

00:19:57   for whoever can make it, whoever they can get in here.

00:19:59   But then mostly it's an online conference

00:20:01   because they said the number,

00:20:03   I think it was like 20 or 30 million developers

00:20:05   that they have.

00:20:06   And even the biggest conferences

00:20:08   they would hold in person held like 6,000 people.

00:20:10   And so it's a drop in the bucket.

00:20:12   And we've been talking for a while,

00:20:14   clearly what they have to do is keep doing it online.

00:20:17   Like we saw when they were forced to do it online for COVID,

00:20:20   we saw how good it became and all the session videos.

00:20:23   The session production is so great

00:20:24   and it's better for everybody.

00:20:25   It's better for the presenters,

00:20:27   they don't have to get all nervous about doing stuff live.

00:20:30   It's better for certainly people who are watching at home

00:20:32   because we have higher production values,

00:20:34   we can see things better,

00:20:35   they can edit things if they didn't quite work

00:20:37   right the first time.

00:20:38   They can do different camera angles,

00:20:40   they can have more,

00:20:41   it's so much better for conference videos

00:20:44   to be the pre-produced kind that they have now.

00:20:47   So the only difference is,

00:20:48   well, how do you solve the fun of an in-person event,

00:20:52   the community angle maybe,

00:20:53   Those are hard to solve for sure.

00:20:55   But I think this is clearly how they're going

00:20:57   to try to do that.

00:20:58   Where it's some press, a bunch of developers,

00:21:02   and they have it kind of be like a celebration of Apple,

00:21:07   a sales pitch for Apple, a pitch for working for Apple maybe,

00:21:11   as I was saying earlier with recruitment angle

00:21:13   of Apple Park being so cool.

00:21:14   So I think this is clearly the way forward.

00:21:18   And anybody who is holding on hope for the return

00:21:22   of a 6,000 person thing in a conference center.

00:21:24   I think that's not gonna happen.

00:21:26   We'll see, maybe they can grow this version of this

00:21:29   a little bit more.

00:21:30   - How many people were there?

00:21:32   - I don't think they publicly said,

00:21:34   I heard it was about 1,000, maybe a little more than that.

00:21:38   I think maybe they could double it roughly.

00:21:40   I don't think it would go to 5,000 ever,

00:21:43   but I could be wrong, I mean, we'll see.

00:21:46   Apple Park absorbed that many people

00:21:48   in a pretty graceful way, it seemed.

00:21:50   Like, it wasn't totally outrageous,

00:21:51   It wasn't crammed in, it wasn't overcrowded.

00:21:55   So we'll see.

00:21:57   But this is clearly the way forward.

00:21:59   And I think, honestly, it's the way to go.

00:22:01   Because such a small percentage of the developer community

00:22:03   is able to come out to these at all,

00:22:05   to make it way better for all the remote participants, which

00:22:08   is the vast majority of people who use this content,

00:22:12   and then have a little bit of fun stuff

00:22:13   they can do in person for certain things like this,

00:22:15   I think that's a good balance.

00:22:17   And we never have to go to a convention center again.

00:22:20   So it makes sense for us from a media perspective,

00:22:23   because what you had is the typical media experience.

00:22:25   Because the first day, there's no sessions anyway.

00:22:27   People don't know.

00:22:28   It's just always the keynote in the State of the Union

00:22:30   and then maybe a hands-on and media briefings, right?

00:22:33   So that totally makes sense that you have the same thing.

00:22:36   But for the non-media experience,

00:22:39   people travel to California to see the cool Apple campus,

00:22:43   sit in a seat, and watch a pre-recorded video.

00:22:45   And yes, they got a tour of the Apple Developer Center

00:22:48   and some other stuff, right?

00:22:49   But like I do that's not WWDC that's more like

00:22:51   You know Apple Park tourism right and Apple Park tourism is cool and fun

00:22:57   But I feel like it's not the same thing as WWDC was which is basically what you're saying is

00:23:02   They can continue to do this Apple Park tourism thing

00:23:05   But they should have the media there in person to you know

00:23:07   For the reasons I described last week is when you're marketing to people you want them to be there in person

00:23:11   And you can do hands-on stuff or whatever have the conference be online and then have you know field day at Apple Park

00:23:18   - But ultimately, I think that's actually fine.

00:23:23   So anecdotally, we did a tour of the developer center

00:23:25   with a random group of other developers

00:23:28   and at the end they asked where everybody was from.

00:23:30   And the people who were there mostly hadn't traveled

00:23:33   very far to get there.

00:23:34   There were a lot of people from Oregon, Seattle,

00:23:38   other parts of California.

00:23:39   And there were a few people from much further away.

00:23:41   One person was from France.

00:23:43   But for the most part, I think the economics

00:23:47   and the cost benefit ratio change a lot

00:23:50   for the idea of flying all the way here

00:23:52   and putting yourself up in a hotel

00:23:54   solely to have Apple Park tourism.

00:23:57   That being said, the number of people

00:23:59   who want that is not zero,

00:24:01   and I think they clearly,

00:24:02   like if they want to have a few thousand people out here,

00:24:04   I think it fulfills their desire

00:24:07   to have a big fun event to celebrate

00:24:09   all the stuff they're doing.

00:24:10   They want to have developers come in person.

00:24:12   They want to have some kind of component like that

00:24:14   for lots of reasons that I think are pretty good reasons.

00:24:17   And so this fulfills that need and gives people

00:24:20   a fun thing to aspire to one day.

00:24:23   And maybe you don't go every year.

00:24:25   Even in the past few years of Conference Center,

00:24:27   WBCs, most people weren't going every year.

00:24:30   But maybe it's something that you do a couple times

00:24:32   in your career as a goal or once in your career.

00:24:34   Just to say, "I went there, I saw that place,

00:24:37   "I was there once, it was great."

00:24:39   I think that, 'cause that's really what

00:24:41   the in-person conference was becoming anyway,

00:24:43   but just with the Conference Center set up,

00:24:45   it was just becoming a somewhat cumbersome version of that,

00:24:48   and a limited version of that.

00:24:50   And this is just so much nicer.

00:24:52   You don't wanna fly to California

00:24:54   to see a convention center,

00:24:55   you wanna fly to California as an Apple developer

00:24:57   to see Apple's campus, to see the Apple Park,

00:24:59   to go to the ring, that's what you wanna see.

00:25:02   And in previous conferences,

00:25:03   you almost never would see Apple's campus,

00:25:06   unless you go way, way, way back.

00:25:08   But in the modern era, you would never have

00:25:11   the kind of access we had today with the old setup.

00:25:13   and now you do, and it just makes it so much cooler,

00:25:15   and it gives you the tourism angle of something cool to see,

00:25:19   almost as a totally separate thing

00:25:20   from the actual conference, which is something

00:25:22   that you do on your own time in your hotel wifi later.

00:25:25   - Was the Bash at Infinite Loop in 2008 or something?

00:25:27   I thought I saw James Thompson posting some pictures.

00:25:29   Like, I know time is relative,

00:25:31   and you say way, way, way back.

00:25:32   It was still in the 2000s when they did the,

00:25:35   they used to call it the beer bash,

00:25:36   that's how politically incorrect it was,

00:25:38   and that was actually on the Infinite Loop campus,

00:25:40   and they would bring developers there,

00:25:42   and they'd sit on the grass and do stuff.

00:25:44   2003 maybe, I don't know, in the 2000s I think.

00:25:47   But yeah, I guess that's ancient history now.

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00:27:43   - All right, so there was a lot covered.

00:27:49   There was a lot, a lot covered.

00:27:50   It was basically like a two-hour keynote, wasn't it?

00:27:53   I didn't actually look at the time.

00:27:54   We are going to, famous last words,

00:27:57   attempt to blow through a lot of this as quickly as possible

00:28:00   and then we will have plenty of time

00:28:02   to talk about it over the coming weeks.

00:28:04   Also, we don't plan to cover the State of the Union today.

00:28:07   We'll probably cover that next week

00:28:08   we can get through our follow-up in a timely manner. So here we go, we're just going to try

00:28:12   to plow through in semi-chronological order. We start with I was 16 and Craig, and I know we've

00:28:18   said this many times in the past, Craig is just leaning into this presenter role, man. I just,

00:28:22   I keep getting flashbacks to him with his shaky hand over the magic mouse, and he is like the king

00:28:28   of presenters now. He is so good, and I, in leaning into these ridiculous like segues and montages or

00:28:35   or whatever, it made me very happy.

00:28:36   But he started talking about an all new lock screen,

00:28:40   which had been rumored for a while,

00:28:41   and it sounds like there's widgets on the lock screen now.

00:28:46   - Yeah, this is really interesting.

00:28:51   So what they've effectively done here is,

00:28:54   widgets are now powered by WidgetKit.

00:28:56   Include, sorry, they've always happened, sorry.

00:28:58   Complications on the watch are now powered by the same code.

00:29:02   So now, you write a complication using WidgetKit,

00:29:07   and that same thing runs on the phone lock screen

00:29:10   and the watch.

00:29:11   Same code, it can run on both places,

00:29:13   and you can customize it in certain little minor ways.

00:29:16   So it's all the Swift UI code, and it's great.

00:29:21   And I installed the beta on a little test phone

00:29:23   here that I have here.

00:29:24   I played with it for a few minutes.

00:29:25   That's the only thing I've played with so far,

00:29:27   'cause I haven't had too much time,

00:29:27   but it's pretty great.

00:29:29   You have a lot of customization.

00:29:32   - This is so wonderful, and by the way,

00:29:34   it was amazing sitting next to Underscore

00:29:35   as they were demoing this, 'cause--

00:29:36   - Oh, man. (laughs)

00:29:37   - It looks just like Widget Smith in so many ways.

00:29:40   (laughs)

00:29:41   Especially like, one thing that shocked me the most,

00:29:44   so they had this new home screen customizability designs,

00:29:48   and they have all these little things where like,

00:29:50   oh, the picture can have elements

00:29:51   that obstruct part of the time,

00:29:53   so the time gets kind of layered

00:29:54   into elements of the picture,

00:29:56   so that it's partly covered up,

00:29:57   but they're leaning hard into that, I think,

00:29:59   'cause it's novel, I don't know why

00:30:01   you'd want your time to be partially covered up, but cool.

00:30:04   - I thought it looked very cool.

00:30:05   Like I understand what you're getting at,

00:30:06   but I still thought it looked really cool.

00:30:08   - They're trying to make the person stand out.

00:30:09   They always show that.

00:30:10   They show that on the watch faces too.

00:30:11   Like it's basically if you have a picture

00:30:13   of one of your kids or your spouse or something,

00:30:15   like the person isn't slightly in front

00:30:17   of the little bottom of the time.

00:30:18   So you can still read it 'cause the numbers are big,

00:30:19   but it makes the person pop.

00:30:21   - Right, right.

00:30:22   So anyway, there is tons of customization.

00:30:24   One thing that surprised me greatly

00:30:26   is that they are offering different fonts.

00:30:27   Like that I thought was a huge surprise.

00:30:29   - Yeah, and colors.

00:30:31   Colors I figured they would do,

00:30:32   because the watch does colors, right?

00:30:34   The watch does not do fonts.

00:30:36   So that I thought was really surprising.

00:30:38   And it's good, because it'll offer a lot of variety

00:30:41   and personalization, and people always want personalization.

00:30:44   And when you are the world's biggest corporation,

00:30:47   and you make these devices that,

00:30:48   so many people have iPhones and Apple Watches,

00:30:53   like so many people have these devices,

00:30:55   that to have more personalization, we've seen before,

00:30:59   People eat that up, people want that, and you need that.

00:31:03   And the lock screen before has been so tightly controlled

00:31:07   and sterile.

00:31:09   Really, it's time for this.

00:31:12   I'm very, very glad they've added this,

00:31:14   and I think we're going to see a lot of great customization.

00:31:17   And even though I think the actual utility value,

00:31:21   it will depend a lot on how you use your phone.

00:31:23   It will depend on how often do you

00:31:24   see your lock screen versus just blow right past it

00:31:27   and unlock your phone and go do something in your phone.

00:31:29   So that's going to depend a lot on your usage pattern.

00:31:31   For me, I don't know how it'll fly necessarily,

00:31:34   but I'm really happy to see this as a thing.

00:31:38   I think people are going to love this.

00:31:40   They're going to use the crap out of this.

00:31:42   And we're going to see some really cool lock screen

00:31:45   widgets and designs and customizations and everything.

00:31:48   And this is just great on all fronts.

00:31:51   I think the utility of it really ties into the whole focus modes

00:31:54   thing, where you can have multiple lock screens based

00:31:56   on your focus mode.

00:31:57   in particular the idea that you can have one for work and for home right and so what I

00:32:02   mean maybe this is bad but like the thing I immediately thought of is like all right so work

00:32:06   focus so first of all what you'd put on the lock screen and your work focus is like your work

00:32:10   calendar which maybe you don't need to see the other times like uh you know some work related

00:32:15   messaging things or like a a little widget that shows you the status of some service or whatever

00:32:19   and stuff like that and don't have the you know picture of like your favorite marvel character or

00:32:25   or something like they have maybe a work related background

00:32:28   that's more serious and business like.

00:32:29   And the reason why you might be looking at your lock screen

00:32:32   is 'cause back in the old days

00:32:33   when we have meetings in conference rooms

00:32:35   and your phone is on the table,

00:32:36   you just tap your phone, look at the lock screen.

00:32:38   You're not unlocking it

00:32:38   'cause you don't wanna pick up your phone and unlock it

00:32:40   'cause that would be rude during a meeting,

00:32:41   but you might wanna glance at the lock screen.

00:32:43   You know what I mean?

00:32:44   I feel like that's the main scenario

00:32:45   where you're looking at your lock screen, but not unlocking.

00:32:48   Maybe you just pretend you're checking your time,

00:32:49   but where you're really checking

00:32:50   is to see if that person responded to that email

00:32:52   that you sent before the meeting.

00:32:53   But you wanna do it in a discreet way

00:32:54   and not unlock your phone.

00:32:56   I think they're leaning into the focus modes

00:32:59   and having apps be aware of the focus modes

00:33:01   and having the apps change based on the focus modes

00:33:03   and everything.

00:33:03   It's just gotta be catnip for the right kind of person

00:33:08   who really wants to essentially have a day phone

00:33:11   or a night phone, a work phone and a home phone.

00:33:12   It's the same phone, but it's transforming itself

00:33:14   based on your context in more and more ways,

00:33:17   and the lock screen is definitely part of that

00:33:18   because customizing your lock screen for work-related stuff

00:33:23   lets you essentially not junk up your personal phone.

00:33:26   If you're using your personal phone at work,

00:33:27   which many people do,

00:33:28   you know, it usually has an MDM thing,

00:33:30   profile on it where they have control of it,

00:33:31   but you don't wanna junk it up too much,

00:33:34   but you want it to be useful and work,

00:33:35   and it's great to have your work phone

00:33:37   transform back into your personal phone, sort of,

00:33:40   in terms of, you know, the picture of your kid

00:33:43   and your wife and the widgets you wanna see

00:33:44   and your sports scores and everything like that,

00:33:46   and all that stuff is,

00:33:47   you don't have to like come up with this weird compromise

00:33:50   that is serious enough for work,

00:33:53   but has enough of the stuff that you want at home.

00:33:55   Now you can have two totally different experiences.

00:33:58   - Yeah, that's a really good point.

00:33:59   And it also looked like, if I understood it correctly,

00:34:03   you can swipe side to side to get the different lock screens

00:34:06   a la Apple Watch.

00:34:07   I might have that wrong.

00:34:08   - After you do a long press, I think.

00:34:10   - Is that what it is?

00:34:11   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:34:11   - I was worried about that.

00:34:12   I don't know if you've tried this yet, Marco,

00:34:13   but long press on the lock screen?

00:34:17   I'm always afraid of accidental activation

00:34:19   'cause I know that my parents butt dial me enough

00:34:21   as it is somehow.

00:34:22   I don't know how they do it.

00:34:23   Maybe it's like the delay that we talked about

00:34:25   in the past show where you hit the power button

00:34:27   and it doesn't go to sleep immediately

00:34:29   'cause it's waiting to see if you're double tapping it.

00:34:30   And maybe that's enough for them to like fat finger it

00:34:32   or whatever, but anyway.

00:34:34   We'll see how it is.

00:34:36   Parker, do you have the beta?

00:34:37   Casey, do you have the beta installed?

00:34:38   - No, I haven't put it on.

00:34:39   - I do, so you do have to long press.

00:34:42   'Cause right now if you swipe to the right,

00:34:44   you get the camera and if you swipe to the left,

00:34:45   you get like your like today widget kind of view.

00:34:48   So you do have to long press to switch them.

00:34:51   But it's a long press on the locked screen, right?

00:34:55   - Yes.

00:34:56   - So that seems weird to me,

00:34:58   and a little bit maybe prone to accidental activation,

00:35:01   but I suppose we'll all find out when we try it.

00:35:03   But like I said, there's no more force touch,

00:35:05   no more press hard on your thing, Apple removed that.

00:35:08   They even removed it from the watch, didn't they?

00:35:10   Or is it still the watch? - Yeah, it's gone.

00:35:11   I think it's gone from all modern up-to-date hardware.

00:35:14   - And that was a little bit more of a barrier

00:35:16   to accidental activation, because you had to press hard,

00:35:18   and I understand why they got rid of it,

00:35:20   you know, the sensors and everything,

00:35:21   and the bending of the screen and not being able

00:35:23   to do an iPad and yada yada, it's fine.

00:35:25   But we'll just see how it works out.

00:35:26   But that was the one reservation I had.

00:35:27   The other thing I noted about this whole lock screen thing

00:35:30   is, you know, as Marguerite just said before,

00:35:31   like Apple realizing belatedly, I would argue,

00:35:35   how much people wanna customize their phones.

00:35:38   And in particular, the features for the lock screen

00:35:42   recognize that people wanna customize their phones

00:35:44   in ways that quote unquote don't make sense

00:35:46   or don't have utility, right?

00:35:48   Like that you say, well, why would you want it that way?

00:35:51   And the answer is, well, I want it the way I want it.

00:35:53   And that's what Apple is finally giving people.

00:35:55   So the example here is like notifications.

00:35:58   Rather than notifications filling your screen

00:36:00   when you have a lot of them,

00:36:01   we know that a lot of people have like a picture

00:36:03   of a loved one on their lock screen,

00:36:04   and they don't want the UI covering

00:36:07   that picture of the person.

00:36:08   And so let's jam all the notifications down

00:36:11   into this little stack.

00:36:12   It's like, well, I can see less stuff.

00:36:14   I've got this whole phone screen.

00:36:15   Why am I moving everything down?

00:36:16   That's what people want.

00:36:17   They don't want stuff covering the pictures of their kid.

00:36:21   You see people do it with their home screens.

00:36:22   They put it on their actual home screens,

00:36:24   they put a picture of their spouse or child or something

00:36:27   and they arrange the icons in the home screen

00:36:30   so it doesn't cover up the person's face.

00:36:32   That's like, well, you're wasting half your home screen.

00:36:34   It's like, I'm not wasting it.

00:36:35   I wanna see, this is what I wanna see.

00:36:37   I don't want the stuff, I don't want the UI

00:36:38   blocking the picture that I put there, so let me do that.

00:36:41   And they're letting that happen on the home screen.

00:36:43   In fact, you can hide the notifications entirely if you want.

00:36:46   It's like, well, what's the point of your phone

00:36:47   If you can't see notifications,

00:36:48   like that's not why I want my phone.

00:36:49   I just want this cool picture of my dog on my phone.

00:36:51   That's what I want.

00:36:52   And I don't want notifications covering my dog's face.

00:36:54   - Good old Huckleberry.

00:36:55   - Yeah, and yes, and also worth mentioning,

00:36:58   the Live Activities API.

00:37:00   This is a thing where you can have like a live,

00:37:03   a widget on the lock screen

00:37:05   that is live updating and interactive.

00:37:07   - Yeah, this looks really cool.

00:37:08   This is so like if you have a basketball game

00:37:10   that you're watching the score of

00:37:11   or there's a lift about to pick you up

00:37:13   and it will update like you were saying live

00:37:16   to some degree of liveness, it will update live,

00:37:20   and you can actually see the progress

00:37:22   of these things happening.

00:37:23   - Yeah, this is something that they said

00:37:24   is coming in an update to iOS 16 later this year.

00:37:28   So that's actually not in the launch version,

00:37:30   and I don't think we have any API for it yet,

00:37:31   but they mentioned in the State of the Union

00:37:34   that when you have a lot of activity thing running,

00:37:37   your app is running continuously,

00:37:39   or at least some part of your app,

00:37:40   maybe it's just the extension that's running that,

00:37:41   but you have continuous access,

00:37:44   and you have a regular SwiftUI view there.

00:37:46   So you can live do whatever you want there.

00:37:49   So I think you're right.

00:37:50   Things like your ride sharing thing is on its way.

00:37:54   You can track that.

00:37:55   There's so many times where you have

00:37:57   to keep unlocking your phone to go check something,

00:37:59   or something tries to send you a million notifications

00:38:02   to update you on the progress of something that's happening.

00:38:04   And so for this to be able to help

00:38:06   reduce some of that clutter and friction and everything,

00:38:09   I think that could be really cool.

00:38:10   So we'll see how this turns out.

00:38:11   - Tiny window with a baseball game in it from the MLB app?

00:38:14   - Yeah.

00:38:14   - Like live video in real time?

00:38:16   You tap your phone and you can see in a little thumbnail

00:38:19   the baseball game you're watching.

00:38:21   - Yeah, and this is obviously also,

00:38:23   we've heard recent rumors that the iPhone 14

00:38:26   might have an always on screen option,

00:38:27   at least the 14 Pro might.

00:38:29   I think this is clearly in preparation for that.

00:38:33   'Cause that changes things.

00:38:34   The utility of this, think about it when you have,

00:38:37   you're always on screen on your iPhone 14 Pro possibly,

00:38:40   then I would imagine it would be similar to the Apple Watch

00:38:45   Always On screen where like when the screen is not

00:38:48   like fully on, everything's in some kind of dimmed mode

00:38:51   where maybe you like lose the fill colors on things

00:38:54   and everything gets less bright and everything,

00:38:55   but I bet there's gonna be something like that

00:38:58   for the iPhone 14 or at least some future iPhone

00:39:01   and this is clearly like setting up this great feature

00:39:04   to have some like one extra Swift UI modifier

00:39:07   to make it work on the Always On screen.

00:39:09   And that's why hiding notifications entirely

00:39:11   may be a feature because if some future iPhone

00:39:13   did have an always on screen,

00:39:14   and then your phone is sitting on your table,

00:39:17   maybe you don't want notifications to pop up.

00:39:19   Even if it's just metadata,

00:39:20   because you can't see the text

00:39:21   'cause the phone hasn't been unlocked,

00:39:22   you don't wanna know who the message is from

00:39:24   or that you got a message.

00:39:25   So if you want to use always on home screen,

00:39:27   which I assume will be an option

00:39:28   just like it is on the watch,

00:39:29   maybe that's another case

00:39:30   where you would turn off notifications entirely

00:39:32   on the lock screen.

00:39:34   - All right, as we continue along,

00:39:36   there was some talk about focus,

00:39:38   which we've, I think, at least slightly covered.

00:39:40   There was a new concept of focus filters.

00:39:44   And so this is, for example, you could only show tabs

00:39:47   that have been somehow marked as relevant to work

00:39:50   or marked as relevant to home or whatever the case may be.

00:39:52   Similarly, conversations and messages,

00:39:55   accounts in the mail app, events in your calendar,

00:39:57   and apparently there's gonna be a new API for that as well.

00:40:00   - Yeah, so this is an example of a single phone

00:40:01   being a home phone and a work phone.

00:40:03   Like, you know, having in the mail app,

00:40:05   having multiple email accounts, right?

00:40:06   You don't want to use one mail app.

00:40:08   A lot of people do this.

00:40:09   They say, well, I'll use two different mail apps.

00:40:11   One will be my work mail app and one will be a home mail app,

00:40:13   because I don't want my home, my work email mixing.

00:40:16   I don't like the fact that the two accounts are in there.

00:40:18   But if you had a mail app that was

00:40:19   aware that used this new API, it could just completely

00:40:22   hide the work ones when you're not at work and vice versa.

00:40:24   And same thing with calendars.

00:40:26   Again, you could do this manually.

00:40:27   Oh, every calendaring app has a way

00:40:29   for you to disable and re-enable calendars,

00:40:31   but now it can do it based on your focus mode.

00:40:33   This is an API that people have to adopt,

00:40:35   and we'll see how widespread it is,

00:40:36   but it's really setting up a scenario

00:40:38   where you can use a single phone for it.

00:40:40   I'm just using home and work,

00:40:41   but you can imagine a million different contexts,

00:40:43   like vacation mode or workout mode or meditation mode

00:40:48   or doing something with your hobby or photography mode.

00:40:53   It's just many, many options.

00:40:55   A lot of people don't do this.

00:40:56   They're just like my phone is my phone.

00:40:57   I set up the way I want it and it's fine.

00:40:58   But for the people who do want this,

00:40:59   having this woven deeper into the system,

00:41:01   it doesn't take anything away from people

00:41:03   who don't wanna use it,

00:41:04   But sounds great for the people who do.

00:41:06   - Yeah, I do think this is gonna be possibly a tricky thing

00:41:09   for a lot of apps to implement,

00:41:10   like just making the UI for the same,

00:41:12   I haven't looked at the API yet,

00:41:13   but I assume they have to give us a list

00:41:15   of your focus modes and then have us offer you check boxes.

00:41:18   Do you want this to show in work mode?

00:41:19   Do you want this to show in walk-in-your-dog mode?

00:41:22   But, and then I imagine this is gonna be

00:41:25   one of those things that users,

00:41:27   especially users of power user apps,

00:41:29   they're gonna demand this,

00:41:30   from, they're gonna demand their app support this.

00:41:33   And I'm kind of worried, like, I'm pretty sure

00:41:34   I'm gonna have to support that,

00:41:35   given my user base and overcast.

00:41:37   But yeah, it's a good idea, and I think,

00:41:40   you know, we'll see how it goes.

00:41:42   - Yep, here comes one of my favorite portions

00:41:45   of the keynote, I am not being sarcastic, messages.

00:41:49   Messages finally got some love, and I am here for it.

00:41:53   We're getting an iMessage anyway.

00:41:55   We will be able to edit messages.

00:41:57   We will be able to undo a sent message,

00:42:00   and we will be able to praise be.

00:42:02   We will be able to mark a thread as unread.

00:42:05   Marry me, Craig Federighi, please and thank you.

00:42:08   I am so excited.

00:42:09   - When they announced the editing

00:42:11   and especially the undo send,

00:42:12   that got the biggest applause of the day.

00:42:14   Like from the developers that were there,

00:42:16   that was by far the biggest applause.

00:42:19   - I mean, when you control the entire system,

00:42:21   'cause Apple's, iMessage is Apple's thing,

00:42:24   they write the apps, they write the servers,

00:42:25   they write everything, they can do stuff like this.

00:42:27   They can just, how can I edit, I already sent it,

00:42:30   how can I undo a send, they already sent it.

00:42:31   control everything. They can do it. And they finally did.

00:42:33   Yep. No, this is, this is so great. I'm really, really excited for this. Like I,

00:42:38   I'm, I'm into editing messages. I think that'll be very convenient,

00:42:41   especially because I am an old man and I try to write messages that are,

00:42:45   you know, that is decent English and not complete childlike wording and whatnot.

00:42:50   But nevertheless, undo send, like whatever.

00:42:55   I'm sure that'll be helpful from time to time. But marking a thread is unread.

00:42:58   I'm so excited for because I want to see what people want from me

00:43:02   But oftentimes I don't want to respond right that second and the way I remember to respond is by not having marked it as red

00:43:08   So I do you know, it used to be a forced forced press and now it's like the long press and it'll pop up

00:43:13   The little quick view window that'll so you can read it, but then you got to be really careful

00:43:16   You don't push it again or anything like that

00:43:18   suddenly it's marked as red and then once it's marked as red you are you are never going to get a response from me because

00:43:22   It's been cleared if I don't handle it right that moment. I'm never gonna remember to go back to it

00:43:27   So marking a thread as unread,

00:43:29   I am so genuinely excited for.

00:43:31   This is gonna be great.

00:43:32   - Yeah, me too.

00:43:33   - This is another example of a thing that sounds silly,

00:43:35   like your system is dumb.

00:43:36   Your whole system is, to remind you to do it later,

00:43:39   is to just mark it as unread.

00:43:41   Well, it's not true, you read it.

00:43:42   Why are you marking it as unread?

00:43:43   That's a bad system.

00:43:45   But it's like, that's what everybody does.

00:43:47   Like, when you give that feature to people,

00:43:48   mark as unread, that's what people use it for.

00:43:50   And though you may think that is inefficient or silly

00:43:54   or people shouldn't use their inbox as a to-do list

00:43:56   or whatever your mantra is,

00:43:58   the fact is people want this feature

00:44:00   and so you should give it to them

00:44:01   and how people use it is up to them.

00:44:03   - Yeah, yeah, I'm genuinely super excited for this.

00:44:06   - Yeah.

00:44:07   - Moving along, there's going to be a shared with UAPI,

00:44:09   there's some SharePlay stuff.

00:44:11   The most interesting thing to me about SharePlay,

00:44:13   now I have not done any SharePlay anything

00:44:16   to my recollection since it's launched.

00:44:18   However, I did a handful of times

00:44:21   use Plex's equivalent feature,

00:44:23   I don't remember their marketing name for it,

00:44:25   to watch a movie with some family members.

00:44:28   So we're concurrently watching the movie

00:44:30   if either one of us pauses,

00:44:31   then the other one's playback will get paused,

00:44:33   et cetera, et cetera.

00:44:34   This is not unique to Plex.

00:44:36   But my understanding of SharePlay up until today

00:44:39   is that you had to have a FaceTime call going

00:44:41   while all this was going on,

00:44:42   which is not necessarily what you want

00:44:44   if you're trying to watch a film or a TV show together.

00:44:48   That does not seem like what you would want.

00:44:50   And what we did when we were doing this

00:44:52   with Plex and with family

00:44:54   was we were in a group chat.

00:44:56   Well, my darn brother-in-law refuses to get an iPhone

00:44:59   like an adult, but we were in a group MMS chat,

00:45:03   and so we were just chatting back and forth,

00:45:05   sending text messages to each other.

00:45:06   Well, now SharePlay will support doing exactly that.

00:45:09   So you can start a SharePlay thing via messages

00:45:12   instead of FaceTime, and then you still get

00:45:15   the whole playback being paused and things of that nature,

00:45:17   whatever's appropriate for the thing you're SharePlaying,

00:45:19   but you don't have to have a FaceTime call going,

00:45:22   so I'm excited for that.

00:45:23   - Yeah, and the shared with you API is gonna be,

00:45:26   I think, another thing that, you know,

00:45:28   I'm gonna have to add that for sure in my app, you know.

00:45:31   Like, I heard that, I'm like, oh, thank God,

00:45:33   'cause when they announced share with you last year,

00:45:35   where it just worked with, like, Apple News,

00:45:37   Apple Podcast, stuff like that, I was like,

00:45:38   man, I wish I could do that.

00:45:40   Now they called my bluff, they added the APIs,

00:45:43   and now I have to do it.

00:45:44   So that's adding more to my work this summer,

00:45:46   but I think it's gonna be,

00:45:47   that's gonna be a good one, I think.

00:45:49   - Yeah, and then we got some updates on dictation.

00:45:52   Most of this I personally wasn't that jazzed about.

00:45:55   However, one of the things they said is that,

00:45:58   well, first of all, it's all on device

00:46:00   using the neural engine,

00:46:01   but there's an all new on-device dictation experience,

00:46:04   which, and I quote, "Fluidly moves between voice and touch."

00:46:08   Now that is kind of cool

00:46:09   because there's a lot of times

00:46:10   where I'll be dictating something

00:46:12   and I know that Siri will never understand

00:46:15   a word I'm about to say or something like that.

00:46:17   And so it would be nicer just to type it

00:46:19   and then continue dictation.

00:46:20   and apparently you're gonna be able to do exactly that.

00:46:22   And the keyboard will stay open during dictation.

00:46:26   You can dictate emoji, which I think will be

00:46:29   more challenging than you would expect,

00:46:30   because so often you're not gonna know

00:46:33   the official Apple name for these things.

00:46:35   But nevertheless, I am here for this.

00:46:37   I think this sounds all pretty good.

00:46:39   - And automatic punctuation, that's a good thing.

00:46:41   - Yeah, that's the big one.

00:46:42   - So you don't have to say,

00:46:43   what do you need from the store, question mark?

00:46:45   You can actually just try it,

00:46:46   and hopefully that works pretty well.

00:46:47   - Yeah, I mean, I hope it does a good job with it,

00:46:50   because it's going to be tricky to figure out what kind

00:46:52   of punctuation is required.

00:46:53   But even just the basics, just ending a sentence

00:46:55   when you pause or when it seems like it's

00:46:56   the end of a sentence grammatically

00:46:58   will go a long way.

00:46:59   Because as the recipient of many messages that are dictated,

00:47:03   I can tell you that most people do not use punctuation.

00:47:06   They don't say period.

00:47:07   They certainly don't say comma, and they almost never

00:47:09   say question mark.

00:47:10   And so it's just like this word salad

00:47:12   that you have to figure out where the boundaries are.

00:47:14   So this can almost certainly have to be an improvement.

00:47:17   and like Casey said, the ability to fix it up on the fly.

00:47:20   I mean, if people aren't speaking the punctuation,

00:47:23   they're probably not gonna fix it up on the fly,

00:47:24   but I appreciate the ability to fix it up on the fly.

00:47:26   I hope it works well.

00:47:27   The thing they demoed where someone like highlighted

00:47:29   some text with their finger and then spoke to change it,

00:47:31   I do wonder if the mode that the phone is in

00:47:35   may get out of sync with the mode that your brain is in,

00:47:37   whereas you're not aware that the phone

00:47:39   is still listening to you and you say something

00:47:41   as an aside to somebody and then it takes that text

00:47:43   and shoves it in the thing that you just highlighted.

00:47:45   We'll see how that goes.

00:47:46   Indeed. They also talked about live text in video, so you can pause a video and then interact

00:47:54   with the text on the frame, which I thought was kind of cool, and do quick actions like

00:47:57   currency conversion or translation or whatever the case may be. Translate app will also now

00:48:01   have a translate camera. What is it that Google bought, like word lens or something like that?

00:48:06   I forget the name of the app, but it eventually got sucked into Google Translate. And so actually

00:48:11   when Marco and Aaron and Tiff and me were all in Germany, we used this from time to

00:48:15   in order to actually read a menu by having it translate,

00:48:20   basically a photograph of the menu into English.

00:48:21   And so I think that'll be cool.

00:48:23   - Translate is loose.

00:48:24   I mean, it was pretty rough.

00:48:26   - Give you a rough idea.

00:48:27   - We had some unexpected results from using that sometimes.

00:48:30   - We did, but this was almost 10 years ago now.

00:48:33   That was 2013, so I mean, this was a while ago.

00:48:36   - I will say too, we kind of breezed right past

00:48:38   the easier to use Siri app API.

00:48:42   It's called the App Intents API,

00:48:45   which is kind of a replacement for Siri kit.

00:48:47   It's like an all new thing, Swift only,

00:48:49   or primarily accessible through Swift at least.

00:48:52   And it basically makes it much, much easier

00:48:55   to add Siri and shortcut and intent support to your apps.

00:49:00   Before we had this terrible intent definition thing,

00:49:02   these intent extensions,

00:49:03   and they were fairly clunky to work with.

00:49:07   And they've now augmented that API.

00:49:11   It looks like this is the long-term replacement,

00:49:12   but it's not fully replacing it yet.

00:49:14   So the new App Intents API looks very, very good.

00:49:16   I'm very much looking forward to seeing if I can use that

00:49:19   and get rid of some of my massive amount of

00:49:22   boilerplate generated intent code and stuff.

00:49:25   And so yeah, that looks pretty good.

00:49:27   - Yep, and then they also demoed in this section

00:49:30   a visual lookup, and they talked about,

00:49:33   they called it like lifting an object,

00:49:35   but basically what you can do is,

00:49:36   let's say you have a picture of Hopps or Daisy or Penny,

00:49:39   and if you want, you can touch and hold on their body

00:49:43   on the picture, and it will intelligently lift

00:49:48   just them out of the picture.

00:49:51   So it's like a very close crop of just their body

00:49:55   out of the picture, and then you can drag and drop it

00:49:57   into messages or something like that,

00:49:58   which if that works at all, is super freaking cool.

00:50:02   I don't know when I would use it,

00:50:03   but the fact that you could do it is super cool.

00:50:06   - Yeah, this is the kind of thing,

00:50:07   I'm sure in practice there's gonna be a lot of situations

00:50:10   where it cuts off your dog's leg

00:50:12   or accidentally includes a tree from the background

00:50:15   'cause it was blurred in just the right way

00:50:17   and you happen to have a green dog or something.

00:50:18   Anyway, I'm sure it's gonna be very context dependent

00:50:23   on how well it works,

00:50:24   but even if it works decently some of the time,

00:50:27   that's still a really cool feature,

00:50:28   so I'm looking forward to that.

00:50:30   - Indeed.

00:50:31   We're trying to move kind of quickly now.

00:50:32   They talked about Wallet,

00:50:34   which one of the cool things about that

00:50:35   that is that if you have your ID,

00:50:37   your driver's license in the Wallet,

00:50:39   you can have an app ask,

00:50:41   "Hey, is this person over 21?"

00:50:42   and you don't have to say,

00:50:43   "Well, my birthday is such and such."

00:50:45   Actually, Marco's birthday is coming up

00:50:47   between our next recording, so happy 40th.

00:50:49   That reminds me. - Thank you.

00:50:50   - But anyways, it will share,

00:50:52   oh, yes, this user is over 21.

00:50:54   That's all you need to know.

00:50:55   And they're also talking about keys,

00:50:57   and they're working with IETF to make that a whole

00:51:00   sharing protocol, which is cool.

00:51:02   They talked about Apple Pay and Pay Later,

00:51:04   which had been rumored as well,

00:51:05   where you can split the cost of purchases

00:51:07   into four equal payments, spread over six weeks

00:51:09   with no interest, no fees, et cetera.

00:51:10   And that is transparent to the vendor.

00:51:12   It's just you're using Apple Pay as far as they're concerned

00:51:14   and unbeknownst to them, you're kind of setting up

00:51:16   a loan with Apple.

00:51:18   Makes me feel a little weird.

00:51:19   I'm not sure why Apple's into this,

00:51:21   but I don't wanna belabor the point right now.

00:51:23   - So do they make money on that by like,

00:51:24   if you miss a payment, then you charge interest

00:51:27   like a credit card, is that how that works?

00:51:28   - I guess that, but the more I look at it,

00:51:30   I'm wondering maybe if it's just a ploy

00:51:31   to get people to use Apple Pay more often,

00:51:34   and they just want, essentially it's a way

00:51:36   to increase usage of their payment system,

00:51:37   which they do collect fees for,

00:51:39   but not actually a way to like collect interest,

00:51:42   but it seems weird that if they're spreading the payments,

00:51:45   what happens if somebody doesn't pay?

00:51:47   Do they send them to collections?

00:51:48   Is there no interest ever?

00:51:49   I didn't get a chance to look into it.

00:51:51   - Yeah, I assume it's like a credit card

00:51:52   where you get dinged a big fee if you don't pay on time,

00:51:55   but I don't know.

00:51:56   Apple moving into somewhat usurious possibility,

00:52:00   financial services, like, ugh.

00:52:03   This stuff, I'm sure they're very happy about it.

00:52:06   This stuff is just all gross to me.

00:52:08   I wish they didn't have to move into this business.

00:52:09   - But they're not doing it.

00:52:10   Like they outsourced it to Goldman Sachs last time.

00:52:12   It's like Apple doesn't want to be in the business

00:52:14   of being a credit card company.

00:52:15   They just want to control the UX

00:52:17   to another credit card company.

00:52:18   It's kind of like Apple didn't become a carrier,

00:52:20   but sort of bent the carriers to its will

00:52:21   to the extent that Apple took control

00:52:23   over the parts of the experience

00:52:24   that it thought was important.

00:52:26   But in the end, we still had to pay a Verizon bill

00:52:28   or pay an AT&T bill.

00:52:29   And Apple did not make the experience

00:52:31   of dealing with Verizon or AT&T any better

00:52:33   in terms of like paying the bill

00:52:34   or dealing with coverage or rates and stuff like that.

00:52:37   And same thing with Apple Pay,

00:52:38   like the, or not Apple Pay, the Apple card, right?

00:52:40   It's a Goldman Sachs MasterCard in the end,

00:52:42   and you're dealing with them,

00:52:43   and they're the ones who are increasing your credit limit

00:52:46   and dealing with billing issues and all that stuff,

00:52:48   but Apple just puts this layer over the top of it.

00:52:50   So this pay later thing,

00:52:52   if it's Apple putting a layer over the top,

00:52:54   I bet there's no interest or anything,

00:52:56   it's just a way to get more people to use Apple Pay.

00:52:58   But if instead it is a financial instrument

00:53:00   from Goldman Sachs, you can bet your butt

00:53:01   that if you miss one of those payments,

00:53:02   it's time for a big interest.

00:53:04   - Well, and I'm sure Apple gets a cut of that kind of thing.

00:53:07   The reason Apple does this kind of stuff

00:53:09   is partly because they want to have a good experience

00:53:11   of you paying for stuff.

00:53:12   It's also services revenue.

00:53:15   - But I think Goldman Sachs is collecting the revenue.

00:53:17   It's like there's the fee for using the credit card

00:53:20   that the merchant pays, and Apple surely gets part of that.

00:53:22   - Yes, they do.

00:53:23   - But I'm not sure about interest payments.

00:53:25   I don't know.

00:53:27   The bottom line is we all have credit cards,

00:53:29   and this is a thing that exists,

00:53:30   and Apple trying to make a better one,

00:53:31   I think, is a reasonable thing to do.

00:53:33   Well, probably a follow-up in the coming weeks to see,

00:53:37   Is this just a ploy for Apple to get more people

00:53:39   to use Apple Pay and there's no interest involved?

00:53:40   Or is this just yet another system where you can pay later

00:53:43   but if you don't pay, you get interest?

00:53:45   - I mean, there are some businesses,

00:53:46   I mean, should Apple launch their own line of gas stations?

00:53:49   I mean, like, people, we all pay that sometimes.

00:53:51   - Charging stations, maybe.

00:53:52   - Yeah, right, that'd be better.

00:53:53   But you know, it's like, do you want them to be

00:53:54   in the business of like, fossil fuels?

00:53:56   'Cause I mean, that's a gross thing that makes money.

00:53:58   - Well, it's like, it's looking for an area,

00:54:00   like, I mean, payments and the phone make sense

00:54:02   as an area that, you know, mapping in the phone makes sense.

00:54:04   Certain things are fit for Apple's devices

00:54:06   and trying to have, you know, and having a wallet

00:54:08   on the phone makes sense, having a card.

00:54:10   This all makes some sense to me, but I don't actually know,

00:54:14   we'll find out later, whether this is also a way

00:54:16   for Apple to make money for interest payments.

00:54:18   - Yeah, it's, anyway, I'm sure it's a great experience.

00:54:21   It's also kind of gross, and I wish they wouldn't do

00:54:23   this stuff, but I understand why they do.

00:54:25   - And they also have order tracking and wallet,

00:54:27   starting with Shopify-related things, which, I mean,

00:54:30   that seems a little bit of a weird place for it,

00:54:32   but I can't think of a better place for it, so.

00:54:35   I mean, we'll see.

00:54:36   I'm a big time-- what is it called-- parcel user,

00:54:39   which I really like.

00:54:40   And so we'll see if this is better or different or worse.

00:54:43   I was confused by that part because Shopify will track

00:54:47   anything you bought anywhere.

00:54:48   It's very aggressive about finding out

00:54:50   where you've purchased anything and telling you

00:54:52   about how the shipments are coming and stuff like that.

00:54:54   But when I saw the Apple thing, I was like, oh, they're

00:54:56   just going to tell me about shipments

00:54:57   that I use my Apple card for?

00:54:58   Well, I never use my Apple card except for when I buy Apple

00:55:00   stuff, so who cares, right?

00:55:01   But then they said there was a Shopify integration thing.

00:55:04   So I don't know, I'm gonna see how this is in practice.

00:55:08   Is this just gonna double the amount of alerts

00:55:09   and I'm gonna have Apple alerts about my shipments

00:55:12   and also the shop apps alerts for those very same shipments

00:55:15   and I have to pick one of them?

00:55:16   I'm a little bit confused by the extent of this feature.

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00:57:13   - Family sharing.

00:57:19   Jon, you wanna talk about this?

00:57:21   - We're not getting to the big feature yet,

00:57:22   but this is just some small stuff

00:57:23   of like making it easier to set up a phone for a kid

00:57:27   by using another device that's nearby

00:57:29   and a little bit more flexible settings

00:57:32   for requesting approval for things.

00:57:34   So you don't have to, this is,

00:57:36   as someone who's used screen times on my kids' phones,

00:57:39   if you miss the notification, which happens sometimes

00:57:42   'cause you're in the middle of doing something else,

00:57:43   little notification comes down and says,

00:57:45   so and so wants extra 15 minutes of screen time, right?

00:57:49   If you don't catch that notification,

00:57:51   you have to go into settings, like they say

00:57:53   in when they describe this feature,

00:57:54   go into settings, go into screen time,

00:57:56   go into the person's thing, and then scroll down

00:57:57   and find the thing and then prove it.

00:57:59   Now first of all, it took me a long time to figure that out.

00:58:02   'Cause it's not obvious.

00:58:03   You see the notification and you're like,

00:58:05   oh I missed it, right, or it went away

00:58:07   'cause I have it set to go down

00:58:08   and then if two seconds it goes away

00:58:09   or I tried to tap it, it didn't hit or whatever,

00:58:11   I would just yell through the house,

00:58:12   I'd send it again 'cause eventually I figured out

00:58:16   where it was in settings,

00:58:17   but sometimes it's easier to have them send it again anyway

00:58:19   'cause you got to dig in.

00:58:20   - This is every day in our house.

00:58:21   - Dig into settings to find the thing or whatever.

00:58:23   So now you can approve in messages,

00:58:25   which makes much more sense because messages are persistent.

00:58:27   So I'm not sure how this is gonna work in practice,

00:58:30   but it's gotta be improvement over the existing system.

00:58:33   - And then, so we have easier to manage accounts for kids.

00:58:38   You can set age appropriate content limitations,

00:58:40   and there's a quick start setup.

00:58:41   So let's say you have a new iPad.

00:58:43   You can bring your own iPhone next to the iPad,

00:58:46   and it'll say, okay, I see that there's your family

00:58:50   on your iPhone, who is this device for?

00:58:52   Is it for you, for your spouse, for your kid, et cetera?

00:58:55   And that's pretty cool.

00:58:56   And then they also mentioned something

00:58:57   about a family checklist where they'll update,

00:59:00   or they'll make suggestions as to how to update

00:59:01   these settings as the kids get older.

00:59:03   All of that's pretty cool.

00:59:05   But Jon, tell me the next thing that they talked about,

00:59:08   because I can't believe that this is real,

00:59:12   and apparently it's real.

00:59:14   - And this also, by the way, got a very large applause.

00:59:16   - I don't doubt it.

00:59:18   - So I did the math.

00:59:20   Hypercritical number nine, No Wildlife is an Island,

00:59:23   was 4,105 days ago.

00:59:26   (laughing)

00:59:28   11 years, two months, and 26 days.

00:59:32   - That's amazing. - And that's just the first

00:59:33   time I podcasted about it.

00:59:34   This has been something that people have wanted

00:59:37   from Apple for a long time.

00:59:40   And we've talked about it in the show,

00:59:41   and I know a lot of people are confused,

00:59:42   but basically the idea is you have a family,

00:59:45   and in the days before computers,

00:59:47   a family would take photos of a wedding,

00:59:50   of a vacation, of just around the house or whatever,

00:59:52   and then you'd take those photos

00:59:54   and you'd put them into photo albums.

00:59:56   And dad would not have a separate set of photo albums

00:59:59   and mom would not have a separate set of photo albums.

01:00:01   They would be a family photo album.

01:00:03   You would take the family's picture.

01:00:04   It didn't matter who held the camera.

01:00:06   If your sister held the camera and took a picture

01:00:08   and it was a cool picture,

01:00:09   that picture would go into the family photo album.

01:00:11   If dad took a picture, mom, it doesn't matter who took it,

01:00:13   it would go into the family photo album

01:00:15   and didn't make sense to have separate shelves

01:00:17   of dad's photo albums, mom's photo albums

01:00:18   and each individual kid's photo.

01:00:20   You know, maybe kids have their own photo albums

01:00:21   with their friends, but still.

01:00:22   The idea that you'd want to have some kind of sharing

01:00:27   of photos within a family,

01:00:29   it's well established before computers.

01:00:31   Then computers came along and, okay, the first round,

01:00:34   we're just gonna have a bunch of pictures,

01:00:35   but eventually you would think they would get around

01:00:37   to adding a feature like this.

01:00:38   And by the time I was complaining about it in 2011,

01:00:41   I thought we're well overdue.

01:00:42   Like we've got this whole thing of, you know,

01:00:44   photos on our computers, we kind of got it down.

01:00:45   Pat, iPhoto's been out for years.

01:00:48   We should have some kind of family photo library.

01:00:51   And now finally, after years and years,

01:00:52   complaining about this.

01:00:53   Apple has taken a swing at this feature,

01:00:55   a feature that has been added by many other people in the past,

01:00:57   specifically Google, I think we've

01:00:59   talked about on the show, acknowledging the fact

01:01:01   that families exist.

01:01:02   And sometimes people want to have

01:01:03   photos in a shared library.

01:01:05   And that is distinct from sharing photos in an album

01:01:07   or anything like that.

01:01:08   A shared library is just what it sounds like.

01:01:10   It's a photo library that works the same as any

01:01:13   of your individual photo libraries work now.

01:01:15   If you open your photo library on your Mac,

01:01:17   on your phone, on your iPad, everything

01:01:19   you can do to that photo library,

01:01:21   organizing it, editing it, recognizing faces,

01:01:24   labeling people, cropping photos,

01:01:27   adding locations, tags, keywords,

01:01:29   everything you can do to a photo library,

01:01:32   a family photo library, is that a photo library?

01:01:35   Shared by a family, and that appears to be

01:01:37   what the heaven was about it.

01:01:38   And it's complicated because you don't want every photo

01:01:41   to go into the shared library,

01:01:43   but you don't wanna have to manually pick

01:01:45   every single photo you want to go into the shared library,

01:01:47   so there has to be some kind of smart way to do it,

01:01:49   Like, well, okay, photos, when I'm in vacation mode,

01:01:53   the photos should go into there,

01:01:54   or if I'm in the same location as someone else,

01:01:55   they have all sorts of smarts trying to handle this.

01:01:57   But the bottom line is the most important feature is

01:02:00   if they got this part right,

01:02:02   there should be a shared photo library

01:02:04   and people should be able to take photos

01:02:07   from their private libraries

01:02:08   and put them into the shared libraries and vice versa.

01:02:11   And yes, there can be automated ways to do that,

01:02:14   but the basic functionality that has to work is that.

01:02:17   Shared library has to exist,

01:02:18   It has to not corrupt itself or accidentally delete things.

01:02:20   It has to not get super confused.

01:02:21   It has to not spew duplicates everywhere.

01:02:23   Like all that stuff, that's gotta work.

01:02:25   And you have to manually be able to add and remove things.

01:02:28   And then everything after that is gravy.

01:02:29   'Cause that's the question of like,

01:02:30   oh, I don't wanna use the automated features.

01:02:32   Do I wanna have this thing and try to be smart

01:02:33   and put, you know, the photos in there

01:02:35   when it realizes we're all on vacation together

01:02:37   in the same location?

01:02:38   Or do I just wanna do it all manually?

01:02:40   I haven't had a chance to look at this.

01:02:42   It's obviously I haven't even installed

01:02:43   any of the babies yet or whatever.

01:02:45   But from everything I saw,

01:02:46   it seems like they have implemented

01:02:48   the straightforward thing.

01:02:49   It is not some new, weird, obscure feature.

01:02:53   It is just your photo library, but a shared one.

01:02:56   And it seems like they're being very flexible

01:02:57   about how things get into and come out of it.

01:03:00   So, as I was saying to someone, I have like, you know,

01:03:03   145,000 photos riding on this feature, right?

01:03:06   Because I want, for my personal usage,

01:03:11   I want almost all of my and my wife's photos

01:03:14   to be in a shared library.

01:03:15   right now, she's the one who owns the real photo library

01:03:17   and I have this miniature photo library

01:03:20   and I do this manually merging of stuff.

01:03:22   I want to eventually take our big family photo library

01:03:26   that my wife currently owns and make it the shared one.

01:03:28   But I'm gonna do that in steps.

01:03:30   So further updates for sure, probably in the fall,

01:03:33   because I don't really think I'm gonna do this

01:03:35   with the beta, but if everything looks okay in the fall

01:03:39   and everyone upgrades their OSs,

01:03:41   I'm gonna start the process of moving at least

01:03:43   145,000 photos into the shared library and then have the individual libraries be just the photos that

01:03:49   individually so when I take pictures of like random stuff that I'm taking pictures of for like a podcast or you know other things like

01:03:56   That those on those currently stay on my phone and those won't go into the shared photo library

01:04:00   But almost everything else will so I am really looking forward to this it is long overdue

01:04:04   But I'm glad they got it done and honestly I just want it to work and not destroy my photo library

01:04:09   Oh, and also be full fidelity not the photo just photos themselves because people are asking about that

01:04:14   Is it gonna be the full fidelity? It's got to be it's a photo library

01:04:16   but when I say full fidelity

01:04:18   I mean

01:04:18   The literal decades of work that I have put into organizing my photo library all the tags all the faces all the locations

01:04:25   All the edits all the crops that's got to be preserved 100% I'm hoping things like what about all my book projects

01:04:33   What about all my like albums? What about all my slideshows? I hope I really hope all of that

01:04:39   transfers intact to the shared library.

01:04:42   If it doesn't, I'm gonna be kinda sad

01:04:43   because I make all these photo books and everything

01:04:45   and I save the projects in what was iPhoto

01:04:48   and now is Photos.

01:04:49   Because what if I wanna ever get one of those books

01:04:51   reprinted, right?

01:04:53   That's the whole point of digital stuff.

01:04:54   If I have it all saved, I have the original photos,

01:04:56   I have the book, I have the layout,

01:04:58   as long as that is supported,

01:04:59   I should be able to print that book again

01:05:02   if a book gets damaged or lost or something happens to it

01:05:04   or whatever, but if I can't transfer those books

01:05:07   into the shared library, if only the photos go there,

01:05:09   but now the books are stranded in the original library,

01:05:11   but the photos that were in the book are gone,

01:05:14   that's gonna make me sad.

01:05:15   If keywords don't go over, if any of the edits don't go over,

01:05:18   like if things get corrupted when they go over,

01:05:20   if I lose the raw versions, if I lose HDR,

01:05:23   like I really hope this is what it seems like,

01:05:27   which is full fidelity, all metadata,

01:05:29   being able to transfer between any individual library

01:05:32   and a shared library.

01:05:33   So fingers crossed, but I'm super happy

01:05:35   that they've finally done it.

01:05:36   And to be fair, they did specifically call out

01:05:38   that edits, deletions, captions, and keywords

01:05:41   would all be synced, that that would all be part of this.

01:05:44   - I know, but when they give that list,

01:05:45   they're like, "Well, but what about book projects?"

01:05:47   - Right, yeah. (laughs)

01:05:48   - What about albums, what about slide shows,

01:05:50   like, all the things they didn't list, so we'll see.

01:05:53   - Yeah, the thing with iCloud shared photo library,

01:05:56   in principle, I am super stoked for this,

01:05:59   because Aaron, the way things have worked out

01:06:03   in our family is very similar to what you're talking about,

01:06:04   on in that I have the source of record photo library, and Erin, I just make sure that she

01:06:13   has the last month or so of photos, which normally is all she would ever refer to, but

01:06:17   it stinks for her if she wants to go back in time to a while ago.

01:06:21   She has to come find me and tell me, "Oh, can you find me a picture of such and such,

01:06:25   around such and such a time, blah, blah, blah."

01:06:26   It would be so much better for her if she could just go back in time.

01:06:30   The thing with iCloud shared photo library that worries me is I'm really, really scared

01:06:34   that there's going to be some very, very odd limitations to it.

01:06:39   I don't know what those would be specifically, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's no

01:06:43   way to get a bunch of old photos in there, or like you said, your albums and things don't

01:06:48   come across the way you want them to.

01:06:51   Also, I was sort of talking to a friend of mine earlier, and he was saying that he's

01:06:57   really excited to have his niece and pictures of her in a shared photo library with his

01:07:03   parents, the niece's grandparents, and the niece's actual parents. But I don't think

01:07:07   that's what this is for. This is, I think, only within a family sharing unit, which isn't

01:07:11   necessarily what everyone would want. It's fine for me.

01:07:14   And it said up to five people, too. So if you have four kids and two parents, you're

01:07:17   out of luck.

01:07:18   Well, that's the thing. I'm not sure you want to share this with the kids. One of the things

01:07:21   they mentioned was that everyone can edit and have full access.

01:07:25   And I don't want my kids to have full edit access

01:07:28   to the photo library.

01:07:28   They'll just go through it and delete all the pictures

01:07:30   of themselves that they don't like.

01:07:32   And that's not-- it's like tough luck, right?

01:07:34   It's really-- it depends on-- everyone

01:07:36   can define their family how they want it.

01:07:38   And the five person limitation-- there's

01:07:40   limitations on the size of the Apple family thing

01:07:42   anyway, which is itself a problem,

01:07:44   because it's like they should be a little bit more flexible

01:07:45   than they are, but maybe they're server side limitations

01:07:47   or whatever.

01:07:48   But for my personal use, it's probably

01:07:50   just going to be shared between my wife and I.

01:07:54   That's enough for us to, because we're the organizers of the libraries anyway, and the

01:07:59   kids have their own photos, but it's all just like them and their friends and pictures of

01:08:03   the dog and other stuff like that, that are their own private photos anyway.

01:08:07   Occasionally there is some sharing.

01:08:09   I will chuck down photos.

01:08:12   If I could, I would like to give my kids read-only access to the family library, because they

01:08:16   So they ask me for pictures from this event,

01:08:19   or do you have pictures of me when I was in fifth grade,

01:08:21   or whatever, I have to go find it and airdrop it to them.

01:08:24   Whereas if I could just give them read-only access

01:08:25   to the family photo library, that would be great,

01:08:27   but I don't want to give them full ad access

01:08:29   just to avoid any accidental

01:08:31   or on-purpose destructive operations.

01:08:34   - Yeah, it's almost as though you need

01:08:35   a read-only photo gallery.

01:08:38   Just don't leave that there.

01:08:39   That's not good.

01:08:40   - Can you make a peak of you support 145,000 photos

01:08:44   in a shared library?

01:08:45   Get on that.

01:08:45   Hypothetically, Peek-a-view supports whatever library you throw at it, but I take your point,

01:08:49   and no thank you.

01:08:52   Next was privacy, and they talked a lot about safety check.

01:08:56   I don't feel qualified to talk about this, but I will say that I am pleased that this

01:09:02   is a thing.

01:09:03   I'm pleased that they spent time talking about it, especially since Apple to me has a somewhat

01:09:08   Disney kind of aura about them, where they really don't like talking about anything negative

01:09:13   or anything that's not going to make you smile,

01:09:14   and this is not a happy thing, but they've spent time on it.

01:09:17   I'm happy for it.

01:09:19   And so what this allows you to do is it's tools to get --

01:09:22   to help you get away from abusive relationship,

01:09:24   especially, like, emergency reset,

01:09:26   which stops sharing your location.

01:09:27   It resets your privacy permissions.

01:09:29   It signs you out of iCloud on every device

01:09:32   except the one that's in your hand,

01:09:34   and messages in FaceTime are only left

01:09:36   on the device that's in your hand.

01:09:38   So one of the things they explicitly said,

01:09:40   which is true in my family -- I don't know if it is in y'all's,

01:09:42   But you know Erin knows my password. I know her password for like her phone and things of that nature

01:09:46   So I would always I always always always ask her before I can use her before I grab her phone and use it

01:09:52   She does the same for me

01:09:53   but if if our relationship was different like there's nothing stopping me from opening up her phone and doing whatever I want to it and

01:10:01   so

01:10:02   This is very very cool that they seem to have from what I can tell

01:10:06   they seem to have really thought this out and they certainly they

01:10:10   enumerated a list of organizations that they've been working on this with. I think this is

01:10:14   super cool and I hope that no one ever needs it, but I suspect many people will need it.

01:10:20   Yeah, this is the kind of thing, I was so happy to see this because, you know, I think

01:10:25   we're lucky if we have never had to deal with anything like this or known anybody who had

01:10:30   to deal with anything like this, but this is a real problem that, you know, if you think

01:10:33   about if you're in an abusive relationship and you have to get out quickly, which is

01:10:38   is usually how that has to happen.

01:10:41   There are so many ways in our digital lives

01:10:44   where an abuser who was your partner before

01:10:47   could have access to your digital accounts in some way,

01:10:52   have access to your iCloud account,

01:10:53   have you in the family group,

01:10:55   have you be the one who purchased

01:10:58   all your iTunes goods or whatever,

01:10:59   so you're in their credit card system,

01:11:01   you are sharing location with them.

01:11:04   That's a huge one, obviously, for obvious reasons,

01:11:05   like location sharing, location access,

01:11:09   being able to track where you might have gone

01:11:11   or what you might be doing with access to your Apple ID

01:11:14   and other forms.

01:11:15   Like seeing any messages that are sent to you,

01:11:17   that's obviously a big security risk

01:11:20   in this kind of situation.

01:11:21   So the fact that Apple even thought about this

01:11:23   as a problem and tackled it in what appears to be

01:11:26   a pretty good comprehensive way, that's fantastic to see.

01:11:30   And it's exactly the kind of thing that like,

01:11:32   I couldn't imagine any other tech company

01:11:34   doing this before Apple did.

01:11:39   And now, to have this be something that Apple can offer

01:11:40   in a really horrible time in people's lives,

01:11:45   that they need dramatic amounts of help,

01:11:47   and the risks are very high if anything goes wrong

01:11:50   in this kind of situation.

01:11:54   And so to have this be a tool at their disposal is great.

01:11:55   So kind of like shared photo libraries,

01:11:59   this is also an issue that people have been talking about

01:12:01   for a decade or more.

01:12:00   I'll put a link to the show on a tweet from Jackie Chang

01:12:02   where she talks about an article that she wrote 10 years ago

01:12:05   and also a talk that she gave on this very topic.

01:12:07   And it was relevant then

01:12:09   and it continues to be relevant now.

01:12:10   And she was kind of like her follow-up tweet,

01:12:14   "On the one hand, progress is slow.

01:12:15   "On the other hand, at least Apple's making

01:12:16   "some really impactful updates."

01:12:18   Probably because they themselves have had to help victims

01:12:21   do all of these things, right?

01:12:23   This has been a thing that's been going on forever.

01:12:25   And if you're in this situation, you have Apple devices,

01:12:29   I can imagine contacting Apple and trying to go through the support and be like, "Here's

01:12:33   my situation.

01:12:34   Can you help me?

01:12:35   Can you do this?

01:12:36   Can you do that?"

01:12:37   And I'm sure they want to be helpful, but it's the type of thing that, without this

01:12:38   feature built into the OS, it's very difficult to do piecemeal or to expect people to have

01:12:44   the wherewithal to sit on hold or to have the person on the other end of the phone understand

01:12:48   what they're doing.

01:12:49   So this is another long overdue change, and it's good to see motion in the right direction,

01:12:54   but this has been a problem for as long as we've had smartphones.

01:12:58   talked about the home app and they made mention of Matter which is the new

01:13:01   technology that that Apple has had a hand in developing that's supposed to be

01:13:07   the one true smart home technology. In principle, and I don't know a lot about

01:13:11   this and I'm gonna be watching my friend Eric Wielander's channel to see what he

01:13:15   has to say about all this because he does a lot of smart home stuff over on

01:13:18   YouTube. I'll put a link in the show notes. But apparently Matter is based

01:13:24   on HomeKit, which is news to me and deeply frightening

01:13:28   'cause HomeKit does not work that well.

01:13:30   So I don't know, maybe I misheard them,

01:13:33   maybe I misunderstood, but I'm a little bit worried

01:13:35   about that. - Nope, you didn't miss here.

01:13:37   They actually said, "We contributed HomeKit

01:13:39   "as the foundation of this new standard."

01:13:41   Now, that being said, I've had mixed experience

01:13:46   with HomeKit stuff.

01:13:47   The actual straight up HomeKit devices

01:13:51   that are made for HomeKit and everything,

01:13:52   like Secure Video and everything,

01:13:54   and the Lutron/Caseta integration,

01:13:55   like all that stuff has actually been

01:13:57   pretty rock solid for me.

01:13:59   Where you start getting into trouble with HomeKit

01:14:01   is when you have all these like,

01:14:02   you know, weird bridges or updates to things

01:14:04   that were never designed for it,

01:14:06   and you know, you start adding complexity,

01:14:08   like, oh, you're running a Raspberry Pi somewhere

01:14:10   with a HomeKit bridge through these other devices

01:14:12   that never supported it, like,

01:14:14   that's the kind of stuff that tends

01:14:15   to get people into trouble.

01:14:16   But the actual core HomeKit features,

01:14:18   for me, have actually been pretty reliable.

01:14:21   I think it's more about the protocol and the requirements of devices to be...

01:14:24   Back in the early days of HomeKit it was like, "Oh, it's too annoying to support HomeKit

01:14:27   because we have to be so secure and closed off and do a bunch of stuff that requires

01:14:31   expensive chips and it's much easier to use these cheaper standards."

01:14:34   And HomeKit had a lot of barrier to entry.

01:14:36   So I'm hoping when they say HomeKit is the foundation they just mean the sort of underlying

01:14:40   security requirements and stuff, which at this point should be the bar for anybody doing

01:14:45   any smart home stuff.

01:14:46   But in the early days it's a little bit more of just like Wild West, do whatever you want,

01:14:49   make it work.

01:14:50   Yeah, Matter, we've talked about this in past shows.

01:14:52   Sounds great.

01:14:53   Show me the products.

01:14:53   Show me the products working better

01:14:55   than our current products.

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01:16:44   (upbeat music)

01:16:46   - So the next section of the keynote,

01:16:50   I get this feeling like this is one of those sections

01:16:53   that sitting here today, we're like,

01:16:54   wow, that's kind of weird and interesting,

01:16:56   but maybe in a few years,

01:16:57   this might be a really, really, really, really big deal.

01:16:59   And believe it or not, that section is CarPlay of all things.

01:17:04   - Yeah, who had that on their bingo card?

01:17:05   - Not me.

01:17:06   So they're saying that,

01:17:08   or the big piece I took away from this

01:17:10   is that CarPlay is in the future,

01:17:12   And I think they said there the announcements won't even come until late next year of whatever models will support this but

01:17:19   CarPlay will take over

01:17:21   Everything I'm talking about your instrument cluster your main like infotainment display

01:17:28   everything speedometer tachometer

01:17:31   Gear change like all of that will be displayed in a car place

01:17:35   Powered display or series of displays they want to take over

01:17:41   everything I think they an exact quote powers the entire mint instrument cluster like that is

01:17:47   Wild and I mean I'm here for it if it actually works and carplay for the most part has been pretty good for me

01:17:54   it hasn't been flawless, but it's been pretty good and I really like the idea of having a

01:18:00   software company

01:18:03   Actually be in charge of doing the software for my car yet at the same time

01:18:08   I am not at all keen on a software company having all of the

01:18:11   being in charge of some of the critical pieces of the software for my car because I almost want that to be done by someone

01:18:18   Who is much more familiar with like a real-time system and so on and so forth

01:18:22   But one way or another I am very intrigued by this and I'm very curious to see

01:18:27   Where this goes and some guy I follow on Twitter. I think his name is John Syracuse

01:18:32   I had a very funny quip about this and I believe that that person said is this the first time that

01:18:37   Apple shipped anything from Project Titan,

01:18:39   and it sure seems like it might be.

01:18:41   - I mean, I'm not as enthused about this.

01:18:44   You would imagine an Apple car would look like this.

01:18:46   If Apple had a car, and they had the inside of it,

01:18:48   it would have stuff like this in it.

01:18:50   - Well, and I think this raises the interesting question

01:18:51   of if they can actually get anybody to do this,

01:18:55   do they really need to make their own car?

01:18:56   Isn't this 80% of the value of them making a car?

01:19:00   - Maybe, but here's the thing.

01:19:01   You just talked about how the problem with HomeKit

01:19:03   was when you have a bridging thing to some other device

01:19:06   it was never made to support HomeKit.

01:19:09   These cars have to work without a phone in them.

01:19:11   So they have to have their own interface.

01:19:13   And that's been true of cars with screens.

01:19:15   It's like, oh, they've got their own thing.

01:19:16   But when you do CarPlay,

01:19:17   CarPlay overlays one of the screens with its own thing.

01:19:20   And then maybe there's like around the bottom and sides,

01:19:21   you see the rest of your interface,

01:19:22   but there's a section, it's like Flash on the webpage.

01:19:25   There's a rectangle on this dashboard

01:19:27   that is owned by Apple now.

01:19:29   And they put their crap there,

01:19:30   but the rest of the stuff is there.

01:19:30   But the car has to--

01:19:31   - Well, that's not, it depends.

01:19:33   So like on my car, on the Volkswagen,

01:19:35   this screen is 100% taken over by CarPlay.

01:19:38   There are still physical buttons around it

01:19:40   because my car is old enough

01:19:41   that buttons still existed when it was built,

01:19:43   but there are physical buttons around it.

01:19:45   But the entire screen area gets taken over by CarPlay.

01:19:48   This is in contrast to Aaron's Volvo,

01:19:50   which is exactly what you described,

01:19:52   where the top half or maybe even two thirds

01:19:54   is the Volvo stock UI,

01:19:56   and then they put the bottom third to one half

01:19:59   is completely taken over by CarPlay.

01:20:02   - Right, but still it's like that thing that it took over,

01:20:05   you need to be able to drive the car without an iPhone.

01:20:08   So there has to be a user interface to operate the car,

01:20:12   all features of the car there.

01:20:15   And if you're gonna take this Apple thing and say,

01:20:17   like the thing that they showed,

01:20:19   we're going to overlay not just your main screen,

01:20:22   but also your instrument cluster.

01:20:24   And like, you know, sometimes when you still have

01:20:25   either physical or the other non-carplay controls,

01:20:28   that's for things like HVAC and the lights and the wipers,

01:20:31   like, oh, by the way, we wanna do that as well.

01:20:34   So it would be silly for you to keep those things visible from your interface because they're gonna be in our interface

01:20:38   So basically, why don't you let us cut wallpaper over your entire interface?

01:20:43   so that's I feel like that's not great because

01:20:46   You know, I what is the interface to my car does every car have to come with two interfaces and Apple all pays over the

01:20:54   entire thing the second thing is I

01:20:56   Am a strong proponent of not having every single feature of the car be on a touchscreen

01:21:00   But Apple can't put physical controls in my car.

01:21:03   All they can do is display things on a screen

01:21:05   with CarPlay, right?

01:21:07   And so they're never going to be able to make an interface

01:21:10   that works well with my car

01:21:13   in like sort of built in cooperation

01:21:16   with the people making the car.

01:21:17   We just talked about it last time.

01:21:18   Having physical controls in sync with the on-screen controls

01:21:22   not having the same button in two different places.

01:21:25   Deciding which things should be physical,

01:21:27   which things should be on-screen,

01:21:28   which things should be hybrid.

01:21:29   That's the job of designing the interface to a car.

01:21:33   And I think the correct way to do that is not,

01:21:36   there are no more physical buttons

01:21:37   and everything is on touch screens,

01:21:38   but that's the only thing Apple can do

01:21:40   because they can only put images on a screen

01:21:42   unless they make their own car

01:21:43   or unless they work hand in hand with the car maker, right?

01:21:46   And then finally, I would say that Apple's forte

01:21:49   over the past decade or so of user interface

01:21:51   has not been in making interfaces

01:21:54   that are good at conveying lots of information

01:21:56   and are easy to see.

01:21:57   Like I'm just picturing,

01:21:59   I mean, they show lots of pictures of it, and it looked okay,

01:22:00   but when I think Apple interface, I think small,

01:22:03   low contrast text that I can't read,

01:22:05   minimalism that hides information that I wanna see,

01:22:07   and mystery meat that I have to mouse over.

01:22:10   - A lot of rectangles all look the same

01:22:11   with a lot of text you have to read.

01:22:13   - Yeah, right, and the one thing Apple has going for them

01:22:17   is the car makers themselves are also not great at this,

01:22:19   but they're getting better in fits and starts,

01:22:21   so I am not jazzed about this.

01:22:23   I'm jazzed about the idea of having essentially iOS apps

01:22:26   on my car screen, so I can put up Waze,

01:22:28   like CarPlay as it sort of exists slightly expanded,

01:22:31   I do not want Apple trying to paint over

01:22:35   a button-based UI for my entire car inside my car

01:22:39   over the top of the interface for my car

01:22:41   that has to be there so I can drive over that on my phone.

01:22:43   - So I sort of agree with you,

01:22:45   but I think the problem is that you and me

01:22:49   are holding on to this desire and hope

01:22:51   that the future is not 100% touch screens,

01:22:53   but it seems pretty clear to me

01:22:56   that the future is 100% touch screens.

01:22:57   - No, it's not.

01:22:59   I mean, you see car makers bringing back physical controls.

01:23:02   They're bouncing back, aside from Tesla or whatever.

01:23:04   It's the reason, like when Ford came out,

01:23:05   they put, I mean, Ford's doing it in a ham-fisted way,

01:23:08   but they put a big physical dial

01:23:09   in the middle of their screen,

01:23:11   as sort of a statement of saying,

01:23:12   "We believe that there is still a place

01:23:13   "for physical controls."

01:23:14   Again, do we wanna steer with the touchscreen?

01:23:16   Everything is not going to the touchscreen.

01:23:18   Should the pedals be touchscreen,

01:23:19   and you have to take off your socks

01:23:20   and use your toes on them?

01:23:21   Like, physical controls,

01:23:23   as long as we are physical beings,

01:23:25   physical controls must exist.

01:23:27   and a touchscreen is itself a physical control,

01:23:28   is just one that has specific use cases

01:23:31   for which it is the best choice.

01:23:33   And many of the things you need to do in the car,

01:23:35   touchscreen is not the best choice.

01:23:37   They will always be some kind of hybrid,

01:23:39   until we're not driving them at all,

01:23:41   there will always be some hybrid

01:23:42   of physical and touch controls.

01:23:45   And if all Apple is doing is putting things on screens,

01:23:47   they can't participate in that synergy as well

01:23:49   as I think they should be able to.

01:23:52   They made their own car,

01:23:52   presumably they would work all this out.

01:23:54   Or if they work closely with the maker

01:23:56   of a specific car, presumably they would work this out,

01:23:58   but if they just say, oh, get into any one of your cars

01:24:01   and we'll take over every single visible screen

01:24:03   with an interface that has no awareness of what car it's in,

01:24:05   I give that a big thumbs down.

01:24:07   - Well, I mean, to be fair, I think there's a couple

01:24:09   of things that might tame this a little bit.

01:24:11   So number one, most cars that have screens,

01:24:15   even the ones that are having multiple screens,

01:24:16   not even the ones that are replacing their gauge cluster

01:24:18   with a screen, they usually still also have physical

01:24:21   controls, and so there's nothing precluding this

01:24:23   from being touch screen available from certain controls,

01:24:27   but also having some knobs somewhere

01:24:29   that you can use to adjust it.

01:24:30   That's what my Model S has that,

01:24:32   where there are certain controls that you can access

01:24:34   through physical knobs and stuff, or on the touch screen.

01:24:37   - That's where you get into the conflict thing

01:24:38   we talked about in the last show.

01:24:39   Every screen you show on the touch screen

01:24:41   invites an opportunity for conflict

01:24:43   and forces the physical design to be stateless

01:24:46   in a way that isn't appropriate.

01:24:48   All you're doing is trying to work around the back

01:24:49   and say, "Oh, I know this control

01:24:50   "is gonna be up on the Apple thing,

01:24:51   And so we'll get out of sync if I don't make this

01:24:53   a recentering stateless switch.

01:24:56   - Well, fair enough, but still having physical controls,

01:24:59   even stateless ones, is still pretty great.

01:25:01   But anyway, I think what's ultimately going to avoid

01:25:05   the future that you are fearing here is

01:25:08   I just don't see a lot of car makers being willing

01:25:13   to admit to themselves our UI design sucks so badly

01:25:17   that we wanna outsource the entire control of this to Apple.

01:25:21   - But they can unless they require you

01:25:23   to have a phone on you to drive.

01:25:24   - Well right, but they would still have it.

01:25:26   But I can't imagine that many car makers

01:25:29   actually making the kind of car Apple wants them to make

01:25:33   where they really do let Apple take over

01:25:35   every single screen completely.

01:25:37   That to me is very optimistic thinking.

01:25:40   So the way I look at this is much more like a concept car.

01:25:44   Like this is Apple's concept car.

01:25:47   This is a great thing in theory

01:25:49   that could be really cool if it ever comes out.

01:25:51   I'd be shocked if not only does it come out at all,

01:25:54   but that it's anything like what they have proposed here

01:25:57   in practice.

01:25:58   So I think what you're relying on is car makers

01:26:02   who do suck at UI design.

01:26:04   I mean, but let's be honest, they're terrible at it,

01:26:06   and Apple is better at it than them usually.

01:26:08   But that car makers would be so self-reflective enough

01:26:13   to recognize how much they suck at it

01:26:16   and to be willing to give up control over the identity

01:26:19   of their cars and the user experience of how they look,

01:26:24   100% to Apple, I think it's not really gonna happen.

01:26:27   - Yeah, and to be clear, I think it is a good idea

01:26:29   for Apple to be able to not just display on the screen

01:26:33   that they display on now, but to also be able to take over

01:26:35   the instrument cluster, and Marco, you said like cars

01:26:37   that are moving to screens and instrument clusters,

01:26:39   that is all of them.

01:26:40   You know, it doesn't mean they're gonna have touch screens

01:26:42   for everything, but all instrument clusters

01:26:44   are moving to screens, because that's a good use of screens.

01:26:46   You're not gonna touch it anyway, but you wanna be able

01:26:49   that have different gauges and sometimes you wanna see

01:26:50   the map there, right?

01:26:51   - And to be fair, most car makers are terrible

01:26:53   at designing those things, they are awful.

01:26:55   - I mean, it depends.

01:26:57   Some of them are getting better.

01:26:59   I feel like where a lot of car makers fall down

01:27:01   is in the rest of the stuff, like in just the boring things

01:27:03   about adjusting your seats and their desire to have weird,

01:27:06   80s or I don't know, 2001 Web 2.0 swoopy gradients

01:27:11   and stuff, it's like, what are you doing, right?

01:27:12   So Apple probably would do better than them there.

01:27:14   But that's small potatoes, that's not the really important

01:27:17   But then on top of all that is all the specific things

01:27:19   that every particular car does.

01:27:21   Lots of cars have very specific features and stuff

01:27:23   and Apple's not messing with the drive train

01:27:24   or controlling the ABS or anything like that.

01:27:26   And those features need to be exposed in some way

01:27:29   and Apple can't really be aware of them.

01:27:30   And even if a car company did want to work with Apple

01:27:32   that closely, I don't think they would.

01:27:34   It's just too much work to expose every individual feature

01:27:36   of every individual car through this Apple interface.

01:27:38   And by the way, we still have to make our own interface

01:27:40   because people need to be able to drive without an iPhone.

01:27:42   So I don't know, we'll see what comes of this.

01:27:44   Like it was so far out in the future,

01:27:46   end of 2023 models might have something like this,

01:27:50   but I don't, if they do this,

01:27:54   the first card that does this,

01:27:56   it's going to be a lot like the Tesla model

01:27:58   where it's like, if you like everything to be all on screens

01:28:01   and you want those screens to all be controlled by Apple,

01:28:03   there's one card that does it,

01:28:04   but that's probably not gonna be the deciding factor

01:28:06   in you buying it because there's so much more to a car

01:28:08   than what shows up on the screens.

01:28:11   - It's interesting though.

01:28:12   I can see it going any number of ways

01:28:14   and so time will tell.

01:28:16   All right, Fitness Plus no longer requires,

01:28:19   or the Fitness app, excuse me,

01:28:21   no longer requires an Apple Watch,

01:28:22   which is exciting for a certain John Sirquusa.

01:28:25   - Yeah, that was a good turnaround time.

01:28:26   One episode and they fixed it for me.

01:28:27   (laughing)

01:28:28   Heard the episode and it was shoved into the,

01:28:29   I do wonder why they did that though.

01:28:31   I guess it's just total coincidence.

01:28:32   I had no foreknowledge of this or whatever

01:28:34   and I just happened to be annoyed by this feature

01:28:36   that has existed forever and then they fixed it,

01:28:37   but you know, it makes sense.

01:28:39   I wanna see how that's implemented.

01:28:42   does that mean when I upgrade to iOS 16/iPod OS 16,

01:28:45   I'll just have the fitness app?

01:28:47   Because that's what all the help docs said.

01:28:48   It's like, oh, it's already installed on your phone,

01:28:50   or already installed on your iPad.

01:28:51   I was like, no it isn't, I don't see it anywhere.

01:28:52   So, we'll see how it goes, but thumbs up for that.

01:28:55   - One thing, before we move on to watchOS stuff,

01:28:57   I did wanna briefly cover one thing

01:28:58   they very quickly mentioned for the iOS section,

01:29:02   and it's actually part of all their OSes, I believe now,

01:29:05   is something called Rapid Security Response.

01:29:07   I wanna learn more about what this means,

01:29:10   but it sounds kind of like some kind of faster

01:29:14   and possibly more forceful or more automatic way

01:29:17   to install security patches.

01:29:19   So I don't know if this is something like an extension

01:29:20   to XProtect where Apple can just silently disable

01:29:24   a binary remotely on all their computers

01:29:26   without issuing a software update,

01:29:27   if some malware gets out of control.

01:29:30   If it's something like that,

01:29:32   or if it's something more like how,

01:29:33   like on Android, one of the ways Google gets around

01:29:37   too many problems with their horrendous software uptake

01:29:40   rate is that they've moved a huge amount of Android's logic

01:29:47   and libraries and stuff to this thing called Google Play

01:29:49   Services, which they can update much more frequently and easily

01:29:52   than the actual base Android operating system

01:29:55   that things are running on.

01:29:56   So I wonder if this is something kind of in that vein

01:29:58   where maybe Apple is moving certain security

01:30:01   processes into something they can kind of force

01:30:04   update without an OS update actually occurring.

01:30:07   Maybe something like that, I'm not sure.

01:30:09   I do wanna hear more about this in the future

01:30:10   as we learn more about it.

01:30:12   - Indeed, all right, so watchOS 9,

01:30:14   there's going to be a remastered astronomy face,

01:30:18   and I could hear your scream of excitement from here, Marco.

01:30:21   - When they said, here we are, we're expecting,

01:30:24   hey, maybe this is the year custom watch faces,

01:30:26   or maybe they'll just give us one giant complication

01:30:29   so we can make our own kind of that way.

01:30:31   And instead, Kevin just goes up there and he's like,

01:30:33   We have four new faces.

01:30:34   We have remastered the astronomy face,

01:30:36   a new lunar face, playtime, which,

01:30:41   and then metropolitan, where the font stretches out

01:30:47   if you twist the crown, oh my god, like.

01:30:49   - Why don't you like fun?

01:30:51   - Right, come on, Mark.

01:30:53   - The Apple Watch face situation is playtime.

01:30:55   It's like, what are they doing?

01:30:57   They're just playing around.

01:30:58   - This is what the people want.

01:30:59   They give the people what they want.

01:31:01   - Is it really what the people want?

01:31:02   - No, they really just want pictures of their kids.

01:31:04   But either way, I feel like if you don't want

01:31:05   to use these faces, don't use them.

01:31:06   I mean, what are you getting at?

01:31:08   Do they take away your solar face that you like?

01:31:10   - I don't know, I don't think so.

01:31:13   I don't think they ever take away faces.

01:31:15   - If these are just added in addition to it, it's fine.

01:31:17   - Yeah, but it's just like,

01:31:19   is there anybody working full-time on Apple Watch faces?

01:31:22   Like, do they have any full-time employees doing this?

01:31:24   I honestly wonder. - Yeah, understore.

01:31:25   - Sure, they just had a cool astronomy face

01:31:26   where it goes and zoom in on the Earth

01:31:28   and shows the clouds and everything.

01:31:30   That's, you know, if that's what you want,

01:31:32   there's a good implementation of that thing.

01:31:33   - No, I mean frankly, I've almost given up,

01:31:35   because like, you know, I do wear the watch much more now

01:31:39   than I have in previous years.

01:31:40   I wear it almost every day for most of the day now,

01:31:42   and I just use, what the heck is this, Infograph?

01:31:45   Infograph Modular is a face I use,

01:31:47   and I just, I cover it with complications,

01:31:50   one of which is my own in the big center spot,

01:31:53   this custom thing I made for,

01:31:54   that kind of approximates the solar face,

01:31:56   and I just, I cover the whole thing,

01:31:57   and it's like, okay, we're gonna make this

01:31:59   an information display, not an attractive watch face

01:32:03   because Apple is not capable of making attractive watch faces

01:32:06   and they refuse to let us make our own

01:32:08   and that is continuing.

01:32:09   - I don't know, I thought Metropolitan looked pretty good

01:32:12   at a glance, I mean the whole stretchy font thing

01:32:13   was a little bit weird but I thought in general

01:32:15   it looked good.

01:32:17   - No, anyway.

01:32:19   We'll leave that aside for now.

01:32:23   - That's a hard disagree in case anyone was unable

01:32:25   to determine what mark I meant there.

01:32:27   I mean, there were a couple of interesting comments.

01:32:30   Kevin said that they're bringing rich complications

01:32:33   to more faces.

01:32:34   So what I assume this means is, back

01:32:36   when they made the transition from the Apple Watch Series 3,

01:32:39   which is no longer supported, even though it's still

01:32:41   for sale, which is funny.

01:32:42   So that's great.

01:32:44   Series 3 supporters dropped from watchOS 9.

01:32:46   Thank god we can stop supporting it soon in our apps.

01:32:48   Anyway, so they're bringing rich complications.

01:32:51   So when they went from Series 3 to Series 4,

01:32:53   and they rounded the corners of the screen and everything,

01:32:56   They also, I think, added more RAM.

01:32:58   The processor became 64-bit.

01:32:59   It was a pretty big upgrade, and that allowed them

01:33:02   to make complications multicolor and have those new,

01:33:04   like, circular ones that have, like, the different,

01:33:07   you know, it's much more rich complication design.

01:33:10   Those complications are also able to be written in SwiftUI,

01:33:13   as of, I think, last year or the year before.

01:33:15   Now, as I mentioned earlier, like,

01:33:17   the new widget API to make home screen widgets

01:33:21   on the iPhone, you now use that same code

01:33:25   to make widgets for the watch.

01:33:26   So they've modernized much about the widgets

01:33:29   that are existing there, and it sounds like

01:33:32   they're bringing that capability to more watch faces,

01:33:34   maybe the older ones that predated the series four's

01:33:37   introduction that previously only had

01:33:38   like plain text complications, like that,

01:33:40   maybe that's now, more of those can possibly be

01:33:44   these new colorful modern ones.

01:33:45   So all of that, that's all good.

01:33:47   Those are all good solid updates to complications.

01:33:50   So I'm glad to see that complications needed updates,

01:33:53   So that's great, especially the ability to now use

01:33:55   the same code with iOS lock screen, which is fantastic.

01:34:00   The actual watch faces, I think they're gonna keep just

01:34:03   kinda doing something to us around on those that I just,

01:34:08   I've given up on that.

01:34:11   They're never gonna give me good watch faces.

01:34:13   They cannot design them themselves to save their lives,

01:34:16   at least if they have hands.

01:34:18   So, oh well, I'm giving up on that.

01:34:19   I'm gonna just dive straight into continuing my use

01:34:22   of Infograph Modular and covering it with complications

01:34:25   that I can possibly make.

01:34:26   (laughing)

01:34:28   - Fair enough.

01:34:30   There's also gonna be a share sheet

01:34:31   and photos picker APIs on the watch.

01:34:33   I'm not sure why that's super useful,

01:34:34   but I encourage them to make the watch more functional,

01:34:37   so that's cool.

01:34:38   They spent some time talking about workouts.

01:34:40   They had a really interesting discussion

01:34:42   about how to get running metrics

01:34:44   from just what your wrist is doing,

01:34:46   which I thought was pretty cool.

01:34:48   They're doing heart rate zones during workouts.

01:34:50   You can do custom workouts.

01:34:51   They'll detect triathlons and fitness, like I said earlier, for all iPhone users.

01:34:55   But it's only the move or red ring.

01:34:57   They don't have anything to do with standing and they don't have anything to do with exercise.

01:35:01   It's only the red ring.

01:35:02   But still, I thought that was neat.

01:35:04   They talked about some health stuff, including some really interesting work they're doing

01:35:08   with sleep.

01:35:09   They're talking about heart health and AFib history.

01:35:12   And they're doing a lot of work with medications and tracking your medications "discreetly

01:35:16   and conveniently."

01:35:17   So logging, reminders, using a camera

01:35:19   to scan your pill bottles to enter them.

01:35:21   They're talking about drug to drug interactions

01:35:23   including between medications and alcohol, for example.

01:35:26   All good work.

01:35:27   Anything else on iOS before we talk to Mac?

01:35:29   - Yeah, all of that stuff is great.

01:35:31   Like the work at Apple's like it has a lot of good stuff

01:35:34   for runners, I might try some of that myself.

01:35:37   The AFib stuff is great.

01:35:39   I mean, this is something that like I've known people

01:35:41   in real life who have problems with AFib

01:35:44   and I've recommended whenever I've heard anybody with this,

01:35:46   I've told them, like, hey, you should consider

01:35:47   getting one of the recent Apple watches,

01:35:49   because the AFib detection is really useful

01:35:52   if you have that condition.

01:35:53   It's very, very useful.

01:35:54   And so to have AFib history, which they said,

01:35:57   we expect to receive FDA clearance soon

01:36:00   on the AFib history feature.

01:36:01   So that means they don't have it yet.

01:36:02   So that means the AFib history feature

01:36:03   might not launch on a particular timeline

01:36:05   that they were expecting.

01:36:06   But we'll see.

01:36:08   But assuming that clears the FDA at some point,

01:36:11   that's a great feature.

01:36:13   That can really make a big difference in people's lives.

01:36:15   That's a fantastic thing.

01:36:16   I'm very, very glad they're doing that.

01:36:18   - The medication thing kind of reminds me of

01:36:21   when they had menstrual cycle tracking.

01:36:22   It's like, jeez, finally,

01:36:24   what kind of health-related things do huge portions

01:36:28   of the population have to deal with?

01:36:30   And so, yeah, medications.

01:36:31   People take them.

01:36:32   They exist.

01:36:33   The health app should help you manage them.

01:36:35   Not that there's plenty of third-party apps

01:36:36   that do it or whatever,

01:36:37   but if they're going to build in this health system,

01:36:40   improving the ability to keep track of what you're taking,

01:36:44   remind you to take them.

01:36:45   It's just, it's a no brainer.

01:36:46   I'm glad they finally got around to adding that.

01:36:48   - So we got a bunch of hardware, well, maybe not a bunch,

01:36:51   but we got some hardware and we got an M2,

01:36:55   which I think we all thought was possible,

01:36:57   but personally, I didn't think it was likely for today,

01:37:01   but sure enough, we got an M2.

01:37:03   We got a second gen Apple Silicon processor,

01:37:07   20 billion transistors, 25% more than the M1,

01:37:09   100 gigs a second memory bandwidth,

01:37:11   which is 50% more than M1.

01:37:13   The memory limit for the unified RAM has increased to 24 gigabytes, 8 core CPU for high performance

01:37:19   for efficiency, 18% greater performance over M1, a 10 core GPU, which is between 25 and

01:37:26   35% faster than M1, 40% faster neural engine, 8K H.264 and HEVC ProRes media engine.

01:37:33   And all of this is going to start out in, as we did expect, the new MacBook Air.

01:37:37   We didn't expect it for today, but we did expect that would be where the M2 launched,

01:37:40   and sure enough, it did.

01:37:42   MacBook Air quick highlights.

01:37:43   - Let me talk about the M2 first.

01:37:46   - Oh, okay, sure.

01:37:46   - So if you have been following the rumors,

01:37:48   it's kind of difficult to tell from the presentation.

01:37:50   So is this the M1 Plus and they just put the M2 name on it

01:37:53   or whatever, 'cause we don't have all the details of this,

01:37:55   but honestly, it doesn't really matter much.

01:37:58   Like the one thing that,

01:38:00   the main thing that determines the performance of this chip

01:38:03   is the process, right?

01:38:05   And it's still five nanometer.

01:38:06   It's a newer five nanometer one.

01:38:07   I think it's the whatever it's called,

01:38:09   5P or whatever that they use for the A16 maybe?

01:38:14   I don't remember, but anyway it's not 3nm is the point.

01:38:18   So you're not going to see some huge decrease in power consumption or whatever because the

01:38:22   previous chip, the M1 is 5nm and this one is also 5nm, it's just slightly better 5nm.

01:38:27   So to the extent that this uses less power while doing the same thing, that is the improvements

01:38:32   in the 5nm process and maybe some small improvements to the architecture.

01:38:36   But beyond that, if you were looking for a chip that is one better than the M1, it would

01:38:41   look a lot like the M2.

01:38:43   It's a little bit bigger.

01:38:45   Not much, but it's a little bit bigger.

01:38:46   It's got a little bit more stuff in it, and more GPU cores can support more RAM.

01:38:51   The things that are in it are a little bit faster, but they're not one or two percent

01:38:55   faster.

01:38:56   They're significant bumps.

01:38:58   For a chip that we're not even sure if it's even using any different cores than the other

01:39:02   one, it might even be using the same cores as the M1, and it's using also a five nanometer

01:39:06   process albeit a revised one. This M2 is completely worthy of the name M2 even

01:39:12   though it's not three nanometers and even though it doesn't have double the

01:39:15   number of cores or whatever like I'm completely satisfied with this M2 being

01:39:20   one more than the M1. I did love the part later in the presentation when Craig

01:39:23   made fun of the the crack marketing team with their triumph for naming the M1 and

01:39:28   the M2 but honestly within Apple it is a triumph to have a same naming scheme for

01:39:32   more than a few years in a row so we'll see how they go with this we'll see what

01:39:35   with the thing in the Mac Pro ends up being called

01:39:37   and if they just sort of lose the plot

01:39:40   and end up calling it the XP79.

01:39:43   - In all fairness, we do have the M1 Max,

01:39:46   which is not the largest and maximum chip in the M1.

01:39:48   - Yeah, yeah.

01:39:49   (laughing)

01:39:51   The naming team eventually gets too far over their skis

01:39:56   and has a problem.

01:39:58   But this M2, I think it's good.

01:40:01   Would have been better in three nanometers, fine,

01:40:04   But Apple can't make that happen if three nanometer isn't ready, right?

01:40:08   And three nanometer will be nice for an M3 some year.

01:40:11   So it's a little, we talked about this before, it's a little bit weird that Apple's most

01:40:18   powerful computers have an M1 something in them and now Apple's least powerful computers

01:40:24   will have an M2 something in them.

01:40:26   But that's just what we talked about before, the nature of the way you roll out chips.

01:40:31   you don't start with the biggest one,

01:40:33   you start with the smallest one

01:40:34   and you work your way up to the higher power one.

01:40:36   So I think this will just be the cadence from now on.

01:40:39   And looking at, you know,

01:40:40   without knowing the details of the chip

01:40:42   and just looking at the specs,

01:40:44   I think it is a worthy successor to the M1,

01:40:46   which was already fantastic

01:40:47   and this seems equally fantastic,

01:40:48   just maybe, you know, 10 to 15% more.

01:40:51   - Yeah, so new MacBook Air, quick highlights.

01:40:54   - Huge applause, by the way.

01:40:56   - MagSafe with two USB-C connections,

01:41:00   20% reduction volume, 11.3 millimeters thick,

01:41:03   which is less than a half an inch,

01:41:05   a little over two and a half pounds,

01:41:06   four colors including Star, excuse me, Midnight,

01:41:09   which looks like the spiritual successor to the Black Book,

01:41:12   and holy crap, it looks good.

01:41:14   - Asterous.

01:41:15   - High impedance audio jack,

01:41:19   13.6 inch liquid retina display,

01:41:21   as mentioned with the notch,

01:41:22   500 nits, which is 25% brighter,

01:41:24   a 1080p camera with two times the low light performance,

01:41:27   four speaker sound system, spatial audio,

01:41:29   a quote, "silent fanless design," quote,

01:41:32   "first party compact two-port power adapter is available,"

01:41:36   although I think I saw Quinn mention it was only like 35 watts

01:41:39   or something like that,

01:41:39   "and then you can fast charge on the 67-watt adapter

01:41:43   "to 50% in 30 minutes,"

01:41:45   and this is starting at, how much, $1,200.

01:41:49   - And they're keeping the M1 air, the outbound,

01:41:51   they're keeping it in the lineup,

01:41:52   just as we do with the iPhones,

01:41:55   at 1,000 bucks, and this is 1,200.

01:41:57   - It's still a good computer.

01:41:58   If you-- by the way, the power adapter,

01:42:00   if you scroll way down in the show notes,

01:42:02   I think you'll see a picture of that power adapter.

01:42:04   Yeah.

01:42:05   It was rumored a few years ago.

01:42:05   So there's another one of those rumors that leaked

01:42:07   and turned out to be dead on.

01:42:08   It was something we never got to,

01:42:09   but from like weeks or months ago,

01:42:11   we just scrolled down our document,

01:42:13   like, oh, that's that power adapter

01:42:14   that just announced today.

01:42:15   It's interesting how they give you

01:42:17   a choice of the power adapters.

01:42:18   Like, if you buy the expensive MacBook Air,

01:42:20   you get your choice of which power adapter you want.

01:42:22   If you buy the cheaper one, you have

01:42:23   to pay extra for the fancier ones.

01:42:25   It's-- you know, anyway.

01:42:27   So Marco, tell us what these things are like in real life.

01:42:30   So the colors, I think, are the first and most obvious thing.

01:42:33   One thing, we did not get the array of colors

01:42:36   that was rumored last year when they first started rumors

01:42:39   of the new MacBook Air.

01:42:40   And we also did not get the whitish or white screen bezel

01:42:44   and keyboard, which I think ultimately would have looked

01:42:48   really cool and modern.

01:42:49   And I kind of wish they had that.

01:42:52   It would have made them look more like the small iMac.

01:42:54   Yeah, I kind of like the way they look now.

01:42:57   I mean, I get what you're saying.

01:42:58   I think they would have looked great

01:42:59   if they were sort of the iMac to go like the original iBook was.

01:43:03   But they're clearly not that.

01:43:05   And so I'm not a big fan of the white bezels

01:43:09   and certainly not a fan of white keyboards.

01:43:11   It's just they don't stay white for long.

01:43:16   Maybe they still will go with that at some point.

01:43:18   But what they went with is, I think,

01:43:21   the safe choice for a laptop.

01:43:22   Yeah.

01:43:23   And I think part of the reason why they did it, I think,

01:43:25   the new Air screen has a notch.

01:43:27   And so far all of our notches have been black,

01:43:30   and I think making the notch in white,

01:43:33   it would reveal the cutouts of exactly where the camera

01:43:36   and stuff is in the top, and I think it would be uglier

01:43:39   and more distracting possibly.

01:43:40   So my guess is that's why they didn't go that direction,

01:43:43   is because at whatever point the decision was made

01:43:46   that this was gonna be a notch display,

01:43:47   that probably knocked that possibility right out.

01:43:49   - And speaking of camera on the notch,

01:43:50   better camera than a $1600 Apple Studio display?

01:43:53   - Yes, well that's not hard.

01:43:54   I mean, you know.

01:43:56   Oh, and by the way, there's that whole feature

01:43:57   about using your phone as a camera.

01:44:01   - We'll get to that in a little bit.

01:44:02   - Yeah, yeah.

01:44:03   Anyway, so this, the MacBook Air,

01:44:06   so I got to look at them, I played with them,

01:44:08   except for the blue one, but I got to look at the other ones

01:44:10   and I saw the blue one from a few feet away.

01:44:12   So I will say the, you know, gray and silver ones,

01:44:18   the space gray and silver, look exactly like you'd expect.

01:44:22   One thing that is different about them

01:44:24   to the MacBook Pro is that the MacBook Pro

01:44:25   has like the black keyboard well around the keys.

01:44:29   The MacBook Air, that keyboard well is metal.

01:44:32   So it's just like it has been from laptops of yesteryear,

01:44:35   the space between the keys has the body color of the metal.

01:44:39   So it doesn't look as modern as the MacBook Pro does.

01:44:43   It still looks slightly, I wouldn't say old,

01:44:47   but it looks overall less exciting.

01:44:51   When the iMac came out, it looked so exciting

01:44:54   'cause it was so fresh and new,

01:44:55   you had all these colors and you had all the white accents

01:44:57   and everything, it just looked light and fresh and colorful.

01:45:00   The new MacBook Air does not look that way.

01:45:02   It looks like a low-end MacBook Pro.

01:45:05   And it still looks good, but it does not have

01:45:09   that excitement of, ooh, look at the way that thing looks.

01:45:12   It feels fantastic.

01:45:14   Like when you pick it up, it feels like nothing.

01:45:17   It feels weightless.

01:45:18   You can pick it up one-handed 'cause it has

01:45:20   the good new foot design, you pick it up one handed,

01:45:23   you can lift the screen lid one handed,

01:45:24   the whole bottom won't come up with it,

01:45:26   although just barely, you can tell the weight balance,

01:45:29   they achieved that, but just barely.

01:45:33   So it just, it feels fantastic to handle.

01:45:36   Just really great in the hand.

01:45:38   The colors, as I said, I think I would probably go

01:45:42   either Starlight, which is the new gold,

01:45:45   which is nothing like the old gold.

01:45:48   The old gold one was so bright it was almost orange

01:45:52   in certain lighting.

01:45:54   This one, the starlight is very much like a very pale,

01:45:58   you know, and I think it's the same color

01:46:00   as the Apple Watch that has the same name.

01:46:02   And I think, doesn't the iPhone base model,

01:46:04   do they have the same names?

01:46:05   Anyway, so this is Apple's new,

01:46:08   or Apple's current colors for their low-end devices.

01:46:11   So space gray looks just as boring as it always has.

01:46:15   The silver looks classic and it's probably what I'd go for.

01:46:18   The starlight is this pale gold.

01:46:22   And then the midnight,

01:46:23   which everybody wants to hear about, is the dark blue.

01:46:25   It is very dark.

01:46:26   - Oh, it's dark blue?

01:46:28   - Yes, midnight is a--

01:46:29   - Oh, it did not catch that.

01:46:30   - Midnight, yeah, you didn't get that.

01:46:31   - It's a very dark navy blue.

01:46:34   In a lot of lighting, it's gonna look black.

01:46:36   - Oh, duh, this is the blue one you were talking about

01:46:38   at the top of the show.

01:46:39   It didn't even cross my mind

01:46:40   that these are one and the same.

01:46:41   - Yeah. - Holy, jeez,

01:46:43   yeah, now I feel like an idiot,

01:46:44   it did not even cross my mind,

01:46:45   'cause it looks to me to be black.

01:46:47   - I kept wondering why you kept saying

01:46:48   it was like the black book.

01:46:49   It's like you realized it's dark blue, right?

01:46:50   - No, I didn't realize it was dark.

01:46:52   I'm an idiot, but I didn't realize that.

01:46:53   - In non-bright lighting, it does look black.

01:46:56   It's very dark.

01:46:57   And it's so dark that you barely even see the Apple logo

01:47:00   on the screen lid, unless the lighting catches it exactly.

01:47:03   It's very, very dark.

01:47:04   And I hate to tell you, Casey, it's a fingerprint magnet.

01:47:08   - Oh, really?

01:47:09   That's too bad.

01:47:10   - Yeah, it really, really is.

01:47:11   And it was so fingerprinty.

01:47:14   You don't see it as much on the main keyboard deck,

01:47:17   but you see it a lot on the screen later.

01:47:19   If you see the back of it, everyone's closed.

01:47:21   Yeah, and they had handlers.

01:47:24   When Apple has the hands-on areas,

01:47:26   there's a handler at each hardware piece,

01:47:29   and after each person handles it, they wipe it down,

01:47:33   just for sanitary reasons.

01:47:35   So even with that level of pretty consistently cleaning it,

01:47:39   there were a lot of noticeable fingerprints on it.

01:47:41   So we'll see how it is in practice in the real world,

01:47:43   but it's pretty fingerprinty,

01:47:45   and it's darker than you think it is.

01:47:47   Like, whatever you see in pictures,

01:47:48   think of it looking almost black.

01:47:50   It is very, very dark in person.

01:47:52   You don't see the Apple logo on the back very well,

01:47:54   and it gets very fingerprinty.

01:47:56   So frankly, I don't think I would buy it,

01:47:58   just for that alone,

01:47:59   but a lot of people thought it looked cool, who weren't me.

01:48:02   - Well, that's a bummer.

01:48:03   - It's interesting that there's the limitations

01:48:05   that are in the air, right?

01:48:06   So obviously they remove one of the limitations,

01:48:08   'cause you mentioned that MagSafe now,

01:48:09   which means you don't have to take up

01:48:11   one of your USB-C ports with power,

01:48:13   assuming you have your MagSafe connector with you,

01:48:15   or you can use them if you need to.

01:48:16   So that's great.

01:48:18   Something I saw fly by on Twitter

01:48:20   that it would look like it was a screenshot from AppleThing,

01:48:22   still only support for one external monitor,

01:48:24   which seems like a weird limitation.

01:48:27   Like maybe it's,

01:48:28   and I think we went a couple of rounds on this before,

01:48:30   I don't remember the resolution,

01:48:31   is it like a limitation on the M1

01:48:34   that it was just inherited by the M2?

01:48:35   Is this a silly software limitation?

01:48:37   And really, you can have more than one screen

01:48:38   if you buy an adapter,

01:48:39   but it just seems like a,

01:48:41   It seems like an inappropriate limitation, because we know how powerful these machines are.

01:48:45   The M1 MacBook Air, it was just, you know, phenomenally powerful compared to its predecessors.

01:48:49   It doesn't seem like there's a reason that it should only support one external screen,

01:48:52   but apparently that is still the case with this one as well.

01:48:55   Selling the slower charger by default and making you pay more for the bigger, faster charger

01:49:02   makes some sense, I guess, but it feels a little bit like you're being nickel-dimed.

01:49:05   What was the other limitation?

01:49:08   I will say, it doesn't, so they updated the screen.

01:49:10   It doesn't have P3 still.

01:49:12   They said it has over a billion colors,

01:49:13   but that's, I guess that's still not P3.

01:49:16   But it is 500 nits now, which is nice.

01:49:19   The screen looked great.

01:49:20   The only thing is, it does not have,

01:49:21   like the way I complained forever

01:49:23   about how the MacBook Pro, since it went retina,

01:49:27   it wasn't quite a true 2x pixel match.

01:49:29   You had to do scaling.

01:49:31   And the new MacBook Pros that came out last fall

01:49:34   fixed that finally, where you actually finally have true

01:49:36   2x pixels at default settings on new MacBook Pros,

01:49:40   you still don't on the new Air.

01:49:41   So it's still a lower end display,

01:49:43   but I think given its role, given its price point,

01:49:46   that makes total sense, that's a totally excusable flaw.

01:49:49   - Yeah, the limitation is the RAM limit,

01:49:50   which they increased, yay, but going up to 24,

01:49:53   it seems kinda like, oh, couldn't quite make it to 32.

01:49:56   Power constraints, heat, you know, like maybe, hmm.

01:49:59   Like the last time I saw 24 anything,

01:50:03   it reminded me, I made a joke about it on Twitter,

01:50:05   like the old days of the Mac,

01:50:08   it had essentially 24-bit addressing,

01:50:10   because who would ever need more RAM

01:50:12   than you can address with 24 bits?

01:50:14   But it turns out eventually you did need more RAM to that.

01:50:16   And then when that time came,

01:50:18   a bunch of existing Mac applications

01:50:20   would take their 32-bit values

01:50:23   and use the upper six bits that weren't being used.

01:50:26   Like you could take a pointer

01:50:27   and you could put other crap in there, right?

01:50:29   But all of a sudden,

01:50:30   if that stuff becomes part of the address,

01:50:31   it's like, oh, we can't,

01:50:32   these apps that expect that these bits are just

01:50:36   for their use, they're not gonna work on a 32-bit machine,

01:50:39   so you had to buy 32-bit clean versions of the app,

01:50:42   like they'd be updated to be 32-bit clean,

01:50:44   so like we won't put weird crap in the top six bits.

01:50:47   And there was this Mode32 plugin, anyway,

01:50:51   that's the last time I can remember seeing 24.

01:50:53   Usually see things go like 8, 16, 32 for a reason,

01:50:56   but it seems like 24 is like, what can we wedge

01:50:59   into this size and power envelope

01:51:01   that also seems like it's adequate.

01:51:03   And honestly, I think it is adequate,

01:51:04   but part of the thing that disappoints me

01:51:06   with this in terms of capacity is,

01:51:09   like again, M1 is so powerful, M2 is more powerful still.

01:51:13   There's no reason why you couldn't use a MacBook Air

01:51:16   and use all that 32 gigs of memory

01:51:18   if you did some big memory intensive tasks,

01:51:20   because there's plenty of compute available for it.

01:51:23   And sometimes, some jobs that you need to do

01:51:25   are actually more memory heavy than compute heavy, right?

01:51:28   I know it's not a pro machine, right?

01:51:30   So it doesn't have to have 64 gigs or whatever,

01:51:32   but being able to take the low end machine

01:51:35   and stuff it with the particular thing that is important

01:51:39   for what you're going to do with it is useful.

01:51:41   And they're giving you that.

01:51:43   You can make it go up to 24 instead of making it go up to 16

01:51:47   and they, by the way, they charge you a huge amount

01:51:48   for this, like 400 bucks for the 24 gigs,

01:51:50   which is kind of disappointing.

01:51:51   But I still think this machine,

01:51:54   if you gave this machine a little bit more flexibility

01:51:57   in terms of the options that you can put into it,

01:52:00   based on what people need,

01:52:01   then you wouldn't need this next machine,

01:52:03   which just I still find a little bit confusing.

01:52:06   - Yeah, so they said the MacBook Air

01:52:10   was the world's best selling laptop,

01:52:12   and they said the 13 inch MacBook Pro

01:52:14   is the world's second best selling laptop.

01:52:16   And I was wondering as we kept seeing this,

01:52:20   and as I've wondered in public for a while now,

01:52:22   ever since then, like, why does that computer still exist?

01:52:26   But I think the answer is people seem to be buying it a lot.

01:52:29   but they buy 'cause it's cheap.

01:52:31   - Right, well, and why do they buy something labeled pro

01:52:34   that has none of the modern pro features?

01:52:36   Maybe it's aspirational, maybe it's the marketing,

01:52:38   they just think they need it for some reason,

01:52:41   but this computer, when they showed the slide

01:52:44   of all the Macs at the end, it stands out

01:52:46   'cause it's so old looking because it still has

01:52:48   the old screen proportions without the notch,

01:52:50   and it still has a touch bar.

01:52:52   It looks really old. (laughs)

01:52:54   So you have the old style magic, I guess, quote old,

01:52:59   2019 era Magic Keyboard where it does not have

01:53:01   the full height function keys or the big touch ID button

01:53:03   of the new ones, it has still the skinny function row

01:53:05   with the touch bar, but it has the escape button,

01:53:07   you know, that version of the touch bar.

01:53:10   So it has that, it has the old screen bezel

01:53:13   with no notch in the top, so the top bezel

01:53:16   looks significantly wider than the rest of them,

01:53:17   'cause it is.

01:53:18   It has the same M2 and everything,

01:53:23   pretty much all the same limitations except it has a fan.

01:53:25   And they said, again, that the fan is designed,

01:53:28   quote, "to sustain the performance of the M2."

01:53:31   So we will see what happens when people actually

01:53:34   get these things.

01:53:35   In the M1 generation, what we found in testing

01:53:38   is that the MacBook Air that was fanless with the M1

01:53:42   really would hardly ever throttle

01:53:44   unless you were doing some very heavy

01:53:45   like GPU and CPU maximization,

01:53:47   like if you're doing video rendering, for instance.

01:53:50   And so the difference in practice between having a fan

01:53:53   and not having a fan with the M1 was pretty small.

01:53:57   The M2, that ratio might be different.

01:53:59   We don't know yet.

01:53:59   We don't know how they've tuned it,

01:54:01   what the thermal characteristics are under load yet

01:54:03   of the revised cores and the revised process.

01:54:06   So we will see.

01:54:07   The calculation might be different.

01:54:09   Maybe the new MacBook Air will throttle

01:54:11   more than the M1 based one did.

01:54:14   We don't know.

01:54:15   So time will tell on that.

01:54:17   Maybe that's a reason to buy the MacBook Pro

01:54:19   to get that little fan so that you can have

01:54:21   sustained max performance for a longer time.

01:54:23   Who knows?

01:54:23   But, and the battery's also a little bit bigger too.

01:54:27   They quote the MacBook Air at 18 hours of video playback.

01:54:29   They quote the MacBook Pro at 20.

01:54:31   So it's a little bit better battery life.

01:54:33   - Isn't the screen better too?

01:54:35   - The screen, I don't think is,

01:54:36   I think the screen's actually worse.

01:54:37   - But is it P3?

01:54:39   - You know, I don't know if they mentioned that.

01:54:40   I don't know.

01:54:41   But anyway, so this computer,

01:54:45   I still think if you are,

01:54:47   if you're looking at this 13-inch MacBook, quote, Pro,

01:54:51   I think you should give a serious look at the 14 inch

01:54:54   and see if you can reach for that instead

01:54:56   because you get a lot more for that machine.

01:54:59   But whatever, they still sell this one

01:55:01   and apparently they sell a lot of them,

01:55:03   so that's why they updated it sort of,

01:55:04   but I don't see why this machine is still sold.

01:55:07   - I am unreasonably angry that this is still a thing.

01:55:12   I don't understand why this is still a thing.

01:55:14   And with the touch bar,

01:55:15   get rid of the stupid touch bar at this point.

01:55:17   I didn't hate the touch bar, but I didn't love it,

01:55:20   But at this point, just get rid of the stupid touch bar.

01:55:22   If nothing, like I don't understand why this is a thing.

01:55:25   I know the answer is because I sell them,

01:55:27   but why is this computer still a thing?

01:55:29   Just get rid of the darn thing.

01:55:30   - I mean, I think the answer is that like,

01:55:32   the 14 inch MacBook Pro starting price is $2,000,

01:55:36   and this thing is like 1,300.

01:55:38   So like, I see why,

01:55:40   because that price gap is still really big,

01:55:43   but I really think anybody who thinks you want or need

01:55:47   this 13 inch MacBook Pro,

01:55:49   either see if you can do the 14 inch,

01:55:51   which I know is a lot more money,

01:55:52   or get the new Air, which is frankly better feeling

01:55:55   and it has the advantage of being silent

01:55:57   no matter what you do to it.

01:55:58   It probably has more modern other components too,

01:56:02   like the screen looks more modern and everything.

01:56:05   I think the Air is the better computer

01:56:08   for most conditions where you'd be looking at this thing.

01:56:11   - Oh yeah, no, for sure the Air is the better computer,

01:56:13   but you can make a good version of this computer

01:56:15   because like you said, there is a big price gap.

01:56:17   The good version of this computer

01:56:18   would obviously not have a touch bar,

01:56:19   it would just have a screen and a notch,

01:56:21   and the screen would be a slightly better version

01:56:23   than the one in the Air,

01:56:24   and it would lean more heavily into its strength,

01:56:26   so it should be the fan and the bigger battery.

01:56:28   So what you'd have is something that is in price

01:56:30   between the Air and the Pro,

01:56:31   that has some better components,

01:56:33   I would probably lean on the screen,

01:56:34   and that just is bigger and thicker

01:56:36   and has more battery life.

01:56:37   There is a place for that machine, right?

01:56:38   The Air is the one that everybody should get,

01:56:39   we all know that, it's great,

01:56:40   like it does everything you're gonna need,

01:56:42   but if someone's like,

01:56:43   I just need a little more battery life,

01:56:44   but I don't wanna pay $2,000,

01:56:46   the 13 inch, maybe you don't call it Pro,

01:56:48   I don't know what you name the machine,

01:56:49   but basically the machine I'm describing

01:56:51   would be a good product, but this is not it, right?

01:56:53   This is still, this is like the M1 MacBook Air.

01:56:56   It's like, yeah, we did this already.

01:56:57   It's the thing where you take an existing computer

01:56:59   and you shove some different,

01:57:00   now they're doing it twice.

01:57:02   We ripped out the guts, and just, yeah,

01:57:05   I think they need to, this computer needs more love.

01:57:07   It needs another pass, 'cause I,

01:57:09   another pass and maybe another name,

01:57:12   but because I don't think the Air,

01:57:15   there's always gonna be a big gap between the Air

01:57:16   and the bottom end Pro, so there should be something there,

01:57:19   and I don't think the Air can extend all the way up to that,

01:57:22   so you just have to lean into the fact that it's bigger,

01:57:23   it's thicker, it's heavier, and what do you get for that?

01:57:26   More battery, better screen, a fan.

01:57:28   - I mean, maybe the road here is gonna be like,

01:57:31   you know, in the same way that they're keeping

01:57:32   around the M1 Air at a lower price point,

01:57:35   I wonder if maybe next time they rev the MacBook Pro,

01:57:38   maybe it's this fall, maybe it's a year after that

01:57:41   or whatever, maybe next time they rev the MacBook Pro,

01:57:43   the M1 Pro 14-inch sticks around in the lineup

01:57:47   and just gets pushed down by a few hundred bucks.

01:57:49   That would be amazing, but I don't see that happening.

01:57:52   I recognize for non-low-end products,

01:57:55   that's less likely, given their patterns.

01:57:57   But if they still have a bunch of M1 Pros or M1 Macs

01:58:00   that's sitting around that didn't go into anything

01:58:02   by then, that would be some way to close this gap.

01:58:05   Because right now, that gap is very, very large.

01:58:07   I wish they would close it a little bit price-wise,

01:58:09   because again, this 13-inch MacBook Pro shouldn't exist.

01:58:13   people who want to buy it should be able to buy the 14 inch

01:58:16   and so the more Apple can do to close that price gap

01:58:19   over time, I think the better their lineup will be.

01:58:21   - Indeed, all right, Mac OS, Mac OS,

01:58:25   Ace Ventura pet detective.

01:58:27   - Or Jesse the Body Ventura,

01:58:29   neither one of these things is particularly pretty.

01:58:30   - No, they didn't say Ventura, I wrote down,

01:58:32   they said Ventura.

01:58:33   - I know, I'm just saying, like the pop culture things

01:58:37   that spring to mind for people who are not familiar,

01:58:39   who don't have any preconceived notions

01:58:40   for this place in California,

01:58:42   are not great, but whatever, you know, new year, new name.

01:58:47   - Indeed, so I really, this is just maybe for me,

01:58:50   but I really enjoyed the little cameo from Kyle,

01:58:53   the Fitness Plus trainer, when I think it was Craig

01:58:56   was trying to find the right place to go to introduce this.

01:59:00   I thought that was a fun little cameo.

01:59:01   Anyway, stage manager, so you can activate it

01:59:03   from Control Center, and it shoves all of your

01:59:06   accessory windows off to the side,

01:59:07   and then they're all in the left-hand side,

01:59:10   or perhaps this is a configurable left-hand side,

01:59:12   like different stacks or piles is I think the word they used.

01:59:15   And you can cycle through the different windows in your pile

01:59:18   by clicking on the left hand side.

01:59:20   And as you go between your different groups of windows

01:59:24   and stage manager, it quote, "keeps windows arranged

01:59:28   "just as I left them," quote Mr. John Syracuse.

01:59:31   So hey, stage manager is for people

01:59:34   who have way too many windows

01:59:35   and don't know what to do with them, John.

01:59:38   - When I saw this feature, I was like,

01:59:39   this feature looks much more burberry

01:59:41   for an iPad than a Mac, and surprise, it was, right?

01:59:44   And so Apple keeps trying to do things, and good.

01:59:49   They keep trying to do things

01:59:51   to make window management better on the Mac.

01:59:53   But they've tried so many different things,

01:59:55   and for the most part, those things remain in the OS.

01:59:57   I don't think people even know how many different things

02:00:00   are in macOS to try to help you with window arrangement,

02:00:02   because a lot of them are kind of hidden, right?

02:00:05   The snapping to edges of windows and grid positions,

02:00:09   how many people even know that exist?

02:00:10   was added years ago, it's still there.

02:00:13   You can hold down the option key to override it, right?

02:00:15   The thing where you can tile the windows

02:00:17   to be left half, right half, top half, bottom half,

02:00:19   all that stuff that they made more visible in recent years

02:00:22   in the green window widget, that's still there too.

02:00:25   That, it totally is in conflict

02:00:27   with the stage manager thing,

02:00:29   because snapping something to be the left half

02:00:31   of the screen, now you've got this stupid,

02:00:33   weird angled blobs of piles

02:00:35   that you're still able to recognize,

02:00:36   and so now we can't snap to the left end of the screen,

02:00:38   So is that feature either not going to exist

02:00:41   or is it going to snap to the edge where the thing is?

02:00:44   But what if you don't want to use,

02:00:45   is it gonna leave a gutter for that?

02:00:46   But what if you don't use that feature

02:00:48   and don't want to have that gutter there,

02:00:49   now you're losing part of your screen space.

02:00:51   And then of course we have mission control,

02:00:52   which has gone through many different names.

02:00:54   It used to be called expose,

02:00:55   where you can get little tiles of windows

02:00:57   and rearrange things.

02:00:58   And all of those things exist at the same time.

02:01:01   None of them really integrate with each other

02:01:03   or related to each other in any way.

02:01:05   They're just sort of a legacy of trying things.

02:01:07   And every time I see them do something like this,

02:01:09   I think--

02:01:11   I mean, the Mac way to maybe find a better solution

02:01:15   for this would be to provide much, much better APIs

02:01:20   and hooks for third parties to tackle this problem.

02:01:22   I know there's tons of apps like Moom and the Million

02:01:25   Magnet and all these other apps that

02:01:27   use accessibility features to do this type of stuff.

02:01:29   But none of those apps have the deep integration

02:01:32   to the Windows server that you would need to really spark

02:01:36   some innovation in this space because it's clear

02:01:39   that Apple is not entirely sure how to help here.

02:01:42   They keep adding features,

02:01:44   oh, I forgot about spaces, that's there too.

02:01:45   They keep adding features and things

02:01:47   and you can use which ones you like

02:01:48   and for the most part, the good thing is

02:01:50   if you don't wanna use them, they don't get in your way

02:01:52   but it's just, there's no coherent vision.

02:01:55   It's just a bunch of stuff and the stuff never leaves

02:01:59   which probably makes you happy if you still use it

02:02:01   although you might get mad if they change spaces

02:02:02   to not work the way you want it

02:02:03   and then never abandon it and never touch it again

02:02:05   in five years or whatever, but their window management solution is scattershot.

02:02:12   Now if this stage manager works for some people, great.

02:02:15   There's a window management feature that previously they weren't giving any people help and then

02:02:18   maybe this clicks with some people and it really helps them.

02:02:21   But for me personally, this is not going to help me at all because that's not the way

02:02:25   I manage windows at all.

02:02:27   And it is so much more appropriate to the iPad that it almost makes you think it was

02:02:31   developed on the iPad and you say, you know what, we can bring this to the Mac too, which

02:02:34   You know, I guess, fair enough, but it's,

02:02:36   I'm not excited about Stage Manager.

02:02:38   And as for remembering position of Windows,

02:02:40   like, good luck, you know, what if I changed,

02:02:42   I attached two new monitors and changed the resolution

02:02:44   on all of them and then I click one of those piles,

02:02:45   who knows what's gonna happen?

02:02:46   - You know, spoiler alert, I think this was probably

02:02:48   designed for iPad first, but, and I think maybe

02:02:51   that also tells you who it's for,

02:02:53   is maybe it's for people who start out multitasking

02:02:55   on an iPad and then wanna upgrade to a Mac later.

02:02:58   - Yeah, like, or wanna have the familiar experience,

02:03:00   who's like, I know how it works on the iPad,

02:03:01   it's like, well, here's a Mac, oh, I don't know what a Mac

02:03:03   'cause it's weird and confusing.

02:03:04   Oh, you could do window management kind of the same way,

02:03:07   but not quite.

02:03:08   We'll get to that when we talk about the iPad.

02:03:09   But I just, I really wish,

02:03:12   either that there was a more coherent vision

02:03:15   where they sort of wiped the table clean and said,

02:03:17   here's a new way to manage Windows in the Mac,

02:03:20   and/or give third parties full access to the Windows Server.

02:03:23   Like, you know what I mean?

02:03:24   Like actual hooks, like down to low level things

02:03:27   where they can do literally anything

02:03:28   and not just like reaching in from the outside

02:03:31   through accessibility APIs.

02:03:33   - Indeed.

02:03:35   We move right along.

02:03:36   There's spotlight improvements,

02:03:38   including searching text inside of images,

02:03:40   which is pretty cool, and also running shortcuts.

02:03:42   Also, by the way, it's at the bottom of the iOS home screen,

02:03:45   which is a little bit different.

02:03:46   I think that'll be convenient,

02:03:48   but that's definitely different.

02:03:49   - Does anyone have, again, Mark,

02:03:50   do you have the beta? - I got it.

02:03:52   The page dots at the bottom become a search box

02:03:55   after a second or two when it's displayed.

02:03:57   So it starts out as page dots,

02:03:58   and then it's a little, little tiny search,

02:04:00   and so you tap in search,

02:04:01   and you get this little thing and then it pops up.

02:04:03   - I saw that because when they showed them the slide,

02:04:05   they showed the dots and then they said,

02:04:06   and you know, spotlight is right on your home screen

02:04:10   and then it faded into being that thing

02:04:12   and I thought like, are they showing us

02:04:13   where the dots used to be are now spotlight,

02:04:16   but how do I know how many home screens I have?

02:04:18   But literally that was not a transition on the slide,

02:04:20   that is what the UI does.

02:04:21   - Yeah, and like whenever you swipe pages,

02:04:23   it fades back into the dots for a second,

02:04:25   then it goes back to search.

02:04:26   And you can still, to be clear,

02:04:27   you can still pull down on the home screen

02:04:29   and spotlight still just come up,

02:04:30   so that your gesture memory will work the same way,

02:04:32   but now there's just like a totally,

02:04:33   an always visible thing there that says search,

02:04:35   and you just tap that and there it is.

02:04:36   - Yeah, this is a discoverability thing,

02:04:38   because if you don't know about pulling down

02:04:39   on the home screen, it may take you a while to discover it,

02:04:42   but if there's a prominent widget

02:04:43   that has the word search in it,

02:04:45   maybe you have a better chance of seeing it.

02:04:46   - Mail was getting love.

02:04:48   - Yeah. - Who would have thunk it?

02:04:49   I am really excited about this.

02:04:51   You're getting undo send, scheduled send,

02:04:54   follow-up suggestions, which by the way,

02:04:56   did not have a hyphen,

02:04:58   remind me and also quote the biggest overhaul of search in mail we've done in years quote,

02:05:03   which is exciting. I'm curious, I don't think it will, but I'm curious for any services

02:05:10   like Fastmail that support these features natively. I wonder if mail will work with

02:05:15   those server side features. I presume not, or if it will just do this all locally. And

02:05:20   also if you like schedule a send on your Mac and then your Mac is asleep or perhaps off,

02:05:26   and what happens, like does that email not get sent?

02:05:28   I don't know, I have questions about this,

02:05:30   but I'm still, I'm excited that they're

02:05:32   giving mail some love.

02:05:33   - Yeah, and this, I am so, I should actually set up

02:05:36   a mail account on my beta phone to see,

02:05:39   but what I really wanna see is like,

02:05:41   how good is the search on iOS?

02:05:43   Because the search in desktop mail has never been great,

02:05:46   but it at least has been comprehensive.

02:05:48   iOS mail has always had the challenge of,

02:05:51   the iOS mail app, as far as I can tell,

02:05:53   has never actually downloaded all your mailbox content

02:05:56   to the phone locally.

02:05:57   It does what it can, it keeps all the cache

02:05:59   of the latest things, whatever,

02:06:00   but it doesn't download everything

02:06:02   in your entire IMAP account across all folders forever.

02:06:05   So when you do a search on the iPhone,

02:06:07   historically, you hit search and it first does

02:06:11   a really fast search of whatever it has locally,

02:06:13   and then it has to go start fetching stuff from the server.

02:06:16   And that's when it takes a while,

02:06:17   it starts paging stuff in, it's slow,

02:06:20   And that also limits how good of a search it can be

02:06:23   if you have a large mail collection.

02:06:26   So if the new mail on the iPhone is actually gonna download

02:06:29   your entire history of mail,

02:06:31   then it can actually index it all

02:06:32   and do smart stuff with it.

02:06:34   So we'll see how that plays out.

02:06:36   But that's been one major architectural thing

02:06:38   that has limited it so far.

02:06:40   But the fact that they're even tackling this,

02:06:43   I'm very happy to see this,

02:06:45   'cause the mail apps on all their platforms

02:06:48   have been mostly stagnant for most of their lives.

02:06:51   They occasionally get little tiny updates,

02:06:53   but usually not much.

02:06:55   This is actually really nice modern features

02:06:58   that all these modern mail clients that only work on Gmail,

02:07:01   they all support all these things.

02:07:03   The Undoed Send, the Scheduled Send, the Remind Me,

02:07:05   which is I think also called snoozing in many other places.

02:07:08   That's all great.

02:07:09   And again, search has always been pretty rudimentary.

02:07:13   And so to have them tackling these things,

02:07:15   I'm looking very much forward to seeing

02:07:17   how well these things work.

02:07:19   - Yep, me too.

02:07:21   Safari gets a few different things.

02:07:23   They get shared tab groups,

02:07:24   which I could see actually being pretty convenient.

02:07:27   Like there are times when Aaron and I

02:07:28   will be working on like a vacation plan

02:07:31   or something like that, or looking at Airbnbs

02:07:33   that we may wanna stay at,

02:07:34   and rather than just spamming each other via iMessage,

02:07:36   we could just have a shared tab group

02:07:38   with these tabs open.

02:07:39   So I'm actually kind of excited for that.

02:07:41   I don't think I'll use it often,

02:07:42   but I think it'll be super convenient when I do.

02:07:44   Pasquies which is the Fido stuff we talked about was that last week week before

02:07:49   They spend a fair bit of time on that and I'm excited to see that it's becoming more and more real

02:07:55   The news on the Fido stuff is basically like last year and we talked about this if you didn't hear it. It was on what?

02:08:00   84

02:08:02   One what number were you on now?

02:08:04   486 yeah

02:08:06   484 episode 484 you can hear us talk about Fido all that stuff is still relevant the last time they announced this at last year's

02:08:13   It was all the same stuff, but last year they said, "Hey, these APIs are just for you to

02:08:18   try.

02:08:19   We're not sure these are the final APIs.

02:08:21   Try them, give us feedback, let us know what we're doing.

02:08:24   Don't use these in production.

02:08:25   They're not ready for you to actually implement this.

02:08:27   This is just to try stuff out."

02:08:29   This year they're saying, "All the same stuff, but now you can use it.

02:08:33   It's real.

02:08:34   You can use it.

02:08:35   Please implement this stuff."

02:08:36   I haven't looked at the sessions yet, but that was my impression from seeing the keynote

02:08:38   stuff is that what was last year just something for developers to try out is now real and

02:08:42   people can put in products. I hope that's the case. I look forward to seeing the specific

02:08:46   sessions on this to find out.

02:08:48   Indeed. All right, gaming got a section, I guess. Like, this is a thing?

02:08:56   Well, when I watch these things, like, so if you follow console development, every game

02:09:02   console and of course Windows, like, have all these, have APIs to do all of these things,

02:09:09   whatever the Apple is talking about in particular,

02:09:12   you can look at it and say,

02:09:13   "Oh, that's like X from PlayStation or Xbox,

02:09:17   but the Apple version of it."

02:09:18   And this year was some up-and-coming stuff,

02:09:20   resource loading, blah, blah, whatever.

02:09:22   And it's kind of fascinating to me

02:09:24   that Apple is putting in all this work

02:09:26   to essentially create on their own

02:09:28   a first-class gaming API stack from top to bottom,

02:09:33   just like Sony does with PlayStation,

02:09:35   just like Microsoft does with Xbox and PC gaming.

02:09:38   Apple's doing that too.

02:09:40   The only difference is Apple is doing that

02:09:43   in service of essentially phone games, right?

02:09:45   Which are the mobile games are the largest part

02:09:47   of the gaming market.

02:09:48   If you think it's just a side show,

02:09:49   it's not, it's the biggest part.

02:09:51   But it's not the show as they say.

02:09:53   It is not, you know, AAA games,

02:09:55   it is not the high profile ones,

02:09:56   it is not, it's kind of like not the,

02:09:58   not the blockbusters.

02:10:00   And I say that only if your definition of blockbuster

02:10:03   is like public consciousness and not money.

02:10:05   'Cause Apple's got plenty of blockbusters

02:10:07   but they're casino games for children.

02:10:09   And so it's, but it's weird that like,

02:10:12   these APIs all look really good,

02:10:14   but they work on Apple platforms, right?

02:10:17   And only on Apple platforms.

02:10:19   And I think they're good

02:10:21   and they would let people make lots of cool things,

02:10:23   but nobody is going to really invest in

02:10:27   writing against these pretty good APIs for Apple platforms

02:10:31   for a game that is intended to run elsewhere.

02:10:34   So if you're writing a iPhone type game

02:10:38   or a game that's targeting the iPad or whatever,

02:10:40   yeah, this is great.

02:10:41   The APIs are good, they're getting better all the time.

02:10:44   The industry standard, industry wide features

02:10:47   eventually come to Apple's platforms

02:10:48   and you can get to use them, they have great hardware.

02:10:50   But if your goal is to sell your game

02:10:52   to as many people as possible,

02:10:54   you're gonna use some cross platform engine,

02:10:56   like Unity or whatever, and then Unity will write,

02:10:58   will adapt to these APIs and stuff like that.

02:11:00   So it always, it's not a shame that Apple does this,

02:11:04   But I looked and I'm like, wow, Apple spends a lot of money

02:11:06   and time and has a lot of really smart peaking,

02:11:08   make a lot of cool APIs.

02:11:10   And no matter how good they are at it,

02:11:12   that's never going to help them get what they seem to want,

02:11:16   which is like, oh, let's have Resident Evil Village show

02:11:18   that the game is out for every other platform,

02:11:20   it's soon going to be on Apple platforms, big deal.

02:11:22   Apple seems to want to be like, we're big in games,

02:11:25   we have AAA games, the cool gamers like our platforms.

02:11:28   Like, no, they don't.

02:11:29   They, like mobile gamers like your platform.

02:11:32   That's your business.

02:11:33   That's how you get 80% of your billions of dollars

02:11:35   from the app store, right?

02:11:37   That's a thing, and it's good to have

02:11:39   good gaming APIs for that,

02:11:40   but they keep trying to make fetch happen.

02:11:42   They keep trying to be like, "No, Resident Evil,

02:11:44   "that's cool, right, kids?"

02:11:47   And that's just, their problem is not their hardware,

02:11:50   and the problem is not their,

02:11:51   well, I'm gonna say it's not their API.

02:11:53   The problem is not the quality of their API.

02:11:54   The problem is that their APIs are only their APIs,

02:11:57   and aren't cross-platform.

02:11:59   And you could argue the same thing.

02:12:01   There's PlayStation-specific APIs,

02:12:02   Xbox specific APIs, but I think there's more sort of commonality in that world than there

02:12:08   is in the Apple world.

02:12:09   With Apple, it's like top to bottom, everything Apple proprietary and any work you do to optimize

02:12:12   specifically for Apple platforms is basically useless for you elsewhere, which is a shame.

02:12:17   Continuity.

02:12:18   I am genuinely excited about FaceTime handoff.

02:12:22   So if you have a FaceTime call on your phone and then you walk up to your Mac, it'll see

02:12:27   that your face, your phone is nearby and that it's doing a FaceTime call and you can hand

02:12:31   off the call from your phone to your Mac, which I'm really excited about.

02:12:34   I confess, I thought that already existed.

02:12:36   No, no, no, no, definitely not.

02:12:38   I just, I totally thought, like, it shows how often I do this type of thing.

02:12:41   Maybe don't even listen for audio calls or something, but yeah, FaceTime and off.

02:12:45   I don't think it actually exists at all.

02:12:48   Continuity camera.

02:12:49   This is a feature made for me and my crap ass camera on my beloved studio display.

02:12:55   This is another thing where if you scroll down on our show notes, in fact, just below

02:12:59   the giant WWDC things, we have a section called

02:13:01   Using the iPhone as a Webcam.

02:13:04   - Yep, and I actually tweeted a picture of my setup

02:13:07   when I was watching everything today,

02:13:08   and I had the show notes up, and in that picture,

02:13:10   you can see exactly what you're talking about

02:13:12   before WWDC happened.

02:13:13   Well, anyways, you can use an iPhone as a webcam.

02:13:18   I guess if it's a phone that's connected to your Apple ID

02:13:23   and all that jazz, you don't even have to wake up the phone.

02:13:25   There's no wires required.

02:13:27   It supports center stage.

02:13:29   It has a studio light mode.

02:13:31   It is unclear to me whether or not

02:13:32   that kicks on the flashlight on your phone.

02:13:35   - No, I think it's just the same weird brightening

02:13:38   that the Apple Studio Display taught us to do

02:13:39   and makes our faces all look weird.

02:13:40   - No, no, this has been a feature of iPhone cameras

02:13:43   for a little while.

02:13:44   It's an extension of portrait mode.

02:13:45   So they take portrait mode and apply some machine learning.

02:13:49   They introduced it a few years ago.

02:13:53   - Okay, and then they also have something called desk view,

02:13:56   And apparently if you have a phone that has the ultra wide camera on it, it will use the

02:14:01   single image from the ultra wide camera, but split it into two images for the perspective

02:14:06   of the person on the other end of the FaceTime call, where you see your face in one of the

02:14:10   images and the desktop, your physical desktop, not your computer's desktop, I'm talking the

02:14:15   physical desktop you place your hands on, is also shown as like a second image.

02:14:21   If this works at all, that's going to be super cool.

02:14:23   And I immediately flash back to Declan's kindergarten teacher last year, because he was virtual

02:14:27   all year last year, and she went through ridiculous hoops.

02:14:32   This woman is an angel, and she went through ridiculous hoops in order to get it so that

02:14:35   she could easily show the kids what's on her desk, what's on her screen, what, you know,

02:14:39   her herself.

02:14:40   Like, it was so complicated for her, and I felt so bad, and she did such an amazing job

02:14:45   of it.

02:14:46   And as it turns out, if it was this year, she could just slap an iPhone on her screen

02:14:50   and call it a day.

02:14:51   Like I just think that's super, super neat.

02:14:53   - Yeah, this is, we'll see like what are the limitations

02:14:56   of the amount of image data it's getting off

02:14:59   of that tiny little sensor on the ultra wide lens

02:15:01   and how much de-warping it's having to do to make this.

02:15:04   Like it's probably gonna be fairly low resolution,

02:15:08   especially as you get closer towards the, towards one side.

02:15:11   But I think it's still a really cool thing

02:15:13   that they're doing this at all.

02:15:14   - Yeah.

02:15:15   - Although, so this is kind of, you know,

02:15:17   we have the Apology Mouse after they did the Puck Mouse.

02:15:19   I know this isn't actually an apology for the Apple Studio Display camera given the

02:15:22   timing but it is, you know, hey we sold a fairly expensive monitor with a not so great

02:15:28   camera on it but you all have iPhones right?

02:15:30   Well if you're desperate you can do this and to sort of the, you know, the janky cherry

02:15:35   on top is the fact that they're third party.

02:15:37   They're not even selling a first party like thing to attach your phone to your screen

02:15:42   of your laptop.

02:15:43   It's all just a bunch of third party plastic things that like snap onto the magnet or whatever.

02:15:46   Like they don't look good.

02:15:48   They look out of scale.

02:15:49   It's weird to have an iPhone 13 Pro Max

02:15:54   hanging off the end of your MacBook Air screen

02:15:58   just to get a better camera.

02:16:00   It's weird to have your phone up there,

02:16:02   'cause what if you wanna use your phone

02:16:04   and not everyone has an old phone hanging around

02:16:06   that they're gonna use.

02:16:07   And just you look at all this and it's like,

02:16:08   Apple, just put better cameras in your computers,

02:16:10   for crying out loud like this.

02:16:11   Like, it really boggles my mind at this point.

02:16:15   Like, how much does the best camera

02:16:17   in the back of an iPhone cost Apple $50?

02:16:20   How much could it possibly cost, $100?

02:16:22   Whatever the price is, just pass it on to the consumer

02:16:25   and put good cameras in your computers.

02:16:29   And that's what we're saying, like the MacBook Air,

02:16:30   better camera than the Apple Studio display, why?

02:16:32   'Cause it's not a wide angle center stage thing.

02:16:35   It is a more narrowly focused, you know,

02:16:38   like quote unquote regular camera.

02:16:40   That's not great, it's not an awesome camera,

02:16:42   but at least you have more resolution

02:16:44   and less compromises than the wide angle one.

02:16:47   We talked about this in the show notes, it was in the show notes because there's a third-party

02:16:52   app called Camo that does this, right?

02:16:54   And obviously Apple can do it better than any third-party app because they have system

02:16:59   integration, presumably it'll be more reliable and just faster and better.

02:17:03   Like you know, it feels bad when an app gets Sherlock'd but this is the type of feature

02:17:07   that only Apple can implement because they're the only ones who have access to these APIs

02:17:11   basically.

02:17:12   And you know, the iPhone is a fairly closed platform.

02:17:15   So I'm not saying this is bad, I'm glad it exists, but Apple, this is not the solution

02:17:19   to your bad cameras.

02:17:20   I believe that it is possible to do better with the cameras that you put in your Macs.

02:17:24   Please make this feature essentially obsolete.

02:17:27   Yeah, this is a glorious hack, but it's a hack nonetheless, and if we can make it less

02:17:33   necessary, that would be wonderful.

02:17:35   Even if they put good cameras in the Mac, the one role that it does have, and this is

02:17:38   the way it should be advertised, is don't hang your phone off the back of your computer.

02:17:42   Now you have a mobile thing, like, "Oh, I need to show you something.

02:17:44   I need to go over here and do this and do that.

02:17:46   That is why this feature should exist.

02:17:49   It should never exist to say,

02:17:50   I'm going to take a computer

02:17:51   that already has a camera facing me, like this laptop,

02:17:54   and I'm gonna replace it with this better camera

02:17:56   that's in my very expensive phone.

02:17:58   'Cause the advantage of a camera in your phone

02:18:00   that your Mac is sort of seeing through

02:18:02   is you can move it around.

02:18:02   Or let me look over here and look over there.

02:18:04   I'm gonna go into this room,

02:18:05   and I don't know what the range is on the thing,

02:18:06   but having a mobile camera is useful.

02:18:10   A mobile additional camera is also useful,

02:18:13   but the ones that are built in should be better.

02:18:15   - Agreed.

02:18:16   I don't remember any talk of settings during the keynote,

02:18:20   but there's been a lot of,

02:18:22   a big kerfuffle about it since the keynote ended.

02:18:25   John, can you fill me in on what's going on here?

02:18:27   - Yeah, I haven't looked at it myself either

02:18:28   'cause I don't have betas installed,

02:18:29   but I've seen at least one screenshot

02:18:31   and heard some things from some people about it.

02:18:33   This was rumored, and I can't even tell

02:18:35   from the screenshot whether this part of it is true,

02:18:37   but my assumption is that the application

02:18:39   that used to be called System Preferences on your Mac,

02:18:41   where you could change settings and stuff,

02:18:43   has now been renamed to be Settings, which

02:18:45   is what it's called on iOS and iPad OS, and that makes sense.

02:18:48   Again, I can't confirm that from the screenshot,

02:18:50   but I'm assuming it's true.

02:18:51   But the real news is the app itself looks totally different.

02:18:54   What does it look like?

02:18:55   Looks a lot like the Settings app looks on your iPad.

02:18:58   It's got on the left-hand side, there's

02:18:59   a little scrolling list of things

02:19:01   that are in order that only Apple understands.

02:19:03   And on the right-hand side is the detail pane

02:19:05   of the things showing up.

02:19:07   And from the people who have actually

02:19:10   use this briefly in the beta today.

02:19:12   What I've heard is that it's buggy and janky,

02:19:14   as you would imagine for an app that has been completely

02:19:17   replaced with a totally new interface.

02:19:19   Maybe it uses Swift UI and has weird problems.

02:19:21   Maybe the window doesn't resize quite properly.

02:19:24   Maybe it's missing features that existed

02:19:26   in the previous version.

02:19:28   The one technical advantage it has

02:19:29   is that it's my understanding that the preference panes now

02:19:31   run in separate processes, which is better.

02:19:33   So they won't take down your thing when they crash

02:19:36   or whatever.

02:19:36   But I think that might have even been true in the existing

02:19:38   system preferences.

02:19:39   System preferences hasn't changed much since Mac OS X 10.0.

02:19:44   It's always just been a grid of randomly organized icons

02:19:48   with some options to move them around.

02:19:50   And they added the search features with the little spotlight

02:19:53   that actually puts a little spotlight graphic or whatever.

02:19:55   But in the end, it's just been basically a grid of icons

02:19:57   and Apple moves them around everyone.

02:19:59   So while unifying that interface with the settings app

02:20:02   on the rest of the platform makes sense to me,

02:20:05   but unfortunately the settings app

02:20:07   on all Apple's other platforms, isn't that great?

02:20:09   It's confusing, it's hard to find things.

02:20:11   Unless you have really internalized Apple's thinking

02:20:14   with how they break things up into groups,

02:20:16   it's not easy to find things.

02:20:17   Granted, there's a search bar at top.

02:20:19   So anyway, I'm all for rearranging this.

02:20:22   I don't spend a lot of time in the settings apps.

02:20:23   I think this is the right move.

02:20:25   Unifying it across all platforms is a good idea,

02:20:27   but kind of like shortcuts for the Mac,

02:20:29   it would also be nice if the app itself was a good app.

02:20:32   And this seems like, at least in the very, very first beta

02:20:35   from a few people who've used it.

02:20:37   On the very first day it's out,

02:20:38   seems like it might not be quite there yet.

02:20:41   - Yeah, a couple of minor things.

02:20:42   It's called system settings, not settings.

02:20:45   Which is weird. - Why?

02:20:46   So close.

02:20:47   - Yeah, I understand, so it went from system preferences

02:20:50   to system settings, but why not just call it settings?

02:20:53   If the whole goal is to unify it across the mother platform.

02:20:56   - It's just called settings on the phone.

02:20:57   Are they not settings for the system?

02:20:58   What are they settings for?

02:20:59   System seems redundant, but oh, well.

02:21:02   Maybe they'll change that.

02:21:03   You can change the name pretty easily.

02:21:04   And they mentioned in State of the Union

02:21:06   that they were using SwiftUI across more of their own apps.

02:21:09   They specifically called out the new settings app

02:21:11   as using SwiftUI.

02:21:12   The wording of it was a little bit waffly

02:21:14   before it sounds like it might not be all SwiftUI.

02:21:16   And they also called out that they rewrote the Fontbook app

02:21:18   that apparently is entirely SwiftUI.

02:21:21   - That's probably pretty safe.

02:21:22   - Yeah, I hope.

02:21:23   - I think people are spending a lot of time on Fontbook.

02:21:25   - I mean, I think if Fontbook cannot be written in SwiftUI,

02:21:27   SwiftUI needs a lot more work than we think.

02:21:29   - Well, Fontbook is, you know,

02:21:32   that's the thing about with these rewrites.

02:21:34   When you get a rewrite, like even a rewrite of Fontbook,

02:21:36   a Fontbook, if you launch it now on your Mac,

02:21:38   it has a lot of features

02:21:39   and a lot of things that you can do with it.

02:21:40   How many of those are still going to be present

02:21:42   in the rewrite?

02:21:43   Same thing with System Preferences.

02:21:43   People might not know,

02:21:44   but System Preferences has like a menu in the menu bar

02:21:46   that you can do things, you can sort things differently,

02:21:48   you can hide preference panes.

02:21:50   There's a lot of junk in there.

02:21:51   And I'm not sure, you don't need to bring that all over,

02:21:54   but some people are gonna miss

02:21:55   some of the features that are gone.

02:21:57   And yeah, like this is the type of thing where I think

02:22:01   someone had an idea a long time ago

02:22:03   of what settings should look like,

02:22:04   and it hasn't really been revisited or rethought,

02:22:07   and now it's just sort of spreading everywhere.

02:22:10   Eventually it will be the same everywhere,

02:22:11   but I feel like it's not.

02:22:13   With the exception of having a sidebar,

02:22:14   which is kind of like the iPad interface,

02:22:16   like the phone just has the list of settings,

02:22:18   then you sort of go into it and out of it,

02:22:19   'cause it's a long, skinny screen,

02:22:20   but on the iPad they have a sidebar,

02:22:22   and on the Mac they have a sidebar as well,

02:22:23   and presumably the Mac window is resizable or whatever,

02:22:25   but there are legacy concerns here

02:22:28   for third-party preference panes

02:22:29   and how they're gonna work and how they lay themselves out,

02:22:31   and just for the first-party ones.

02:22:32   I don't like the idea that every time Apple redoes something,

02:22:35   we should just assume there's gonna be a year

02:22:37   of using an app that a third-party developer

02:22:39   would have been embarrassed to release.

02:22:40   You know what I mean?

02:22:41   Like, if you were, if you made a third-party app

02:22:44   and it was like Mac shortcuts for an entire year,

02:22:47   it wouldn't get reviewed well.

02:22:49   Like, people would review it and say,

02:22:50   this app looks kind of like it's, you know,

02:22:52   it needs more work, it needs more polish, right?

02:22:55   We don't, but nobody reviews Apple's apps like that.

02:22:57   You don't have a choice.

02:22:57   You like a better shortcuts app, tough luck, right?

02:22:59   You like a different settings app, tough luck.

02:23:01   This is the one you get.

02:23:02   And so we just all have to stomach it for a year.

02:23:03   But honestly, and this is prejudging.

02:23:05   It's the very first beta.

02:23:06   Maybe this will be awesome by the time it's released.

02:23:08   But I feel like the bar for when Apple

02:23:11   does a new version of an app should be much higher than it

02:23:13   is.

02:23:13   It shouldn't be like, oh, it's OK

02:23:15   that it will be cruddy for a year

02:23:17   with a bunch of obvious bugs.

02:23:18   That shouldn't be acceptable.

02:23:20   Yeah, well, and also, I think Apple

02:23:22   has some reputational debt to possibly pay off or make worse

02:23:27   here, because when they've recently rewritten Mac

02:23:31   apps, like think about Disk Utility.

02:23:34   They rewrote Disk Utility and the new version of it

02:23:37   was much worse than the old one for a while.

02:23:40   In certain ways it might still be.

02:23:42   They don't have a lot of great history

02:23:45   of tackling major rewrites of stuff on Mac OS recently

02:23:50   with high quality in mind.

02:23:52   Usually the replacements are worse than what they replaced

02:23:56   if it's like a direct rewrite or something old.

02:23:58   And so if they're getting better at that, great.

02:24:01   they have to show us and they have to establish

02:24:03   a new baseline of good performance there.

02:24:05   But it remains to be seen whether they're actually

02:24:07   doing that or whether these rewrites

02:24:09   will actually end up being worse.

02:24:11   - And also I have to say for existing system purposes,

02:24:13   since I've been spending some time on my wife's

02:24:15   new computer and everything, a lot of them over

02:24:18   the recent years have basically had little web views

02:24:22   inside them, in fact some people like you can do this thing

02:24:24   where you can bring up the WebKit inspector

02:24:25   and start inspecting the little web views

02:24:27   that you didn't know were web views.

02:24:30   sort of the expectation of polish,

02:24:33   of like there's this pane that you're gonna see

02:24:35   that's gonna be populated by WebKit views,

02:24:37   but you won't know the WebKit views

02:24:38   and there's no reload button,

02:24:39   you don't see when there are errors.

02:24:41   It shows up with like, when I go into the Apple ID stuff,

02:24:44   I was trying to do stuff with Apple ID or Apple Pay,

02:24:46   sometimes things just either don't display

02:24:48   or you have to know, like when it says

02:24:51   your Apple ID settings need to be updated.

02:24:53   You're familiar with that one, you get a little badge

02:24:55   and it wants you to do something.

02:24:56   You do the thing and you just have to know from experience.

02:24:59   after you do the thing that it wants you to do,

02:25:01   which is usually entering some password or something,

02:25:02   you just have to wait like five to 17 seconds.

02:25:06   And don't touch anything during this time,

02:25:08   but just, there's no indication that anything is happening,

02:25:10   but just be aware that there are HTTP requests in flight

02:25:13   behind the scenes, and there's nothing additional

02:25:15   that you need to do, and if you click away

02:25:16   and go someplace else, you will not have done it.

02:25:18   So just wait, wait, wait, and if you're lucky,

02:25:21   then the screen will update, and it's like,

02:25:23   oh, now we've done the thing.

02:25:24   Sometimes you click into something,

02:25:25   and it'll just be like a blank gray screen,

02:25:27   and nothing will work.

02:25:28   Sometimes you'll try to add your Apple card to Apple Pay

02:25:30   and it will go through a bunch of things

02:25:32   and it will say, "Sorry, I couldn't edit.

02:25:33   "Try again or cancel."

02:25:35   And it'll be like that for an entire day

02:25:36   and you have no idea why, but tomorrow it will work.

02:25:38   These are unacceptable for a settings app.

02:25:41   Settings app should be like,

02:25:43   there's a bunch of stuff that you do and it works.

02:25:45   If I change my DNS, it should change my DNS.

02:25:47   If I change the screen resolution, it changes it.

02:25:50   There shouldn't be like crashing bugs or display errors

02:25:54   or inability to resize the window

02:25:55   in the system settings app.

02:25:57   It is like, I don't know why I'm so obsessed

02:25:59   with this system, SoundGap.

02:26:00   It's not like I spend all day in there,

02:26:01   but it's like, this is fundamental.

02:26:03   This is just like, I feel like it should be like

02:26:06   low degree of difficulty UI.

02:26:08   You are changing some settings about the sound.

02:26:10   The sound input should be X, the sound output should be Y,

02:26:12   the volume should be this.

02:26:13   That stuff should just work 100% of the time.

02:26:16   And you know, just to be fair, the sound one does.

02:26:18   But I feel that way about all of them,

02:26:20   and especially the Apple ID stuff, which is so fraught.

02:26:22   That whole world, when I click on like my little face

02:26:25   and going to the Apple, I think, feels so fraught to me

02:26:27   and it's so delicate and I have to be so careful

02:26:30   and some huge percent of the time,

02:26:32   something just doesn't work

02:26:32   and I just know to come back in a day or two

02:26:34   and then it will work.

02:26:35   That's not a good experience.

02:26:36   I really hope that gets better.

02:26:38   - Can we move on to iPad OS 16, please?

02:26:41   - Let's do it.

02:26:42   - All right, so first of all, speaking of segues,

02:26:45   I enjoyed the Kyle cameo earlier.

02:26:48   What was going on with the Baywatch-style slow run

02:26:51   that was happening in this segue with the--

02:26:53   - Should've done running up that hill,

02:26:54   but they didn't do it and neither one of you

02:26:56   gets that reference, so that's fine.

02:26:57   - Nope.

02:26:58   - Someone made that on Twitter, I will find the link

02:26:59   for the show notes and put it in there.

02:27:01   - All right, you do--

02:27:02   - For the people who do get the reference.

02:27:03   - I mean, I think this, iPad OS 16 has the biggest

02:27:07   finally moment of the whole keynote.

02:27:10   There is now finally an Apple weather app for the iPad.

02:27:15   - Hooray!

02:27:16   - But no calculator.

02:27:17   - No, that's, it can't handle that.

02:27:20   - Next year, next year, you're gonna save something

02:27:21   for next year.

02:27:22   - Yeah, and by the way, and this was accompanied

02:27:23   by the subtle announcement of the WeatherKit API,

02:27:28   which effectively, it's more detailed

02:27:31   in the State of the Union,

02:27:32   but it's basically the Dark Sky API.

02:27:34   They even have pricing for high volume use

02:27:36   that's very close to Dark Sky.

02:27:38   It's basically Dark Sky API at the system level,

02:27:42   and it's fantastic.

02:27:43   If you look at the API for it,

02:27:45   it's like you don't have to make web service calls

02:27:48   or anything like that.

02:27:49   You just call WeatherKit dot conditions or whatever,

02:27:52   And it's an async thing, and when it returns,

02:27:54   it gives you your weather.

02:27:56   It's really, really great.

02:27:58   That, I think, is gonna be fantastic.

02:28:01   It's such a big finally on the iPad weather front,

02:28:03   but yeah, I think WeatherKit is a really, really cool thing.

02:28:06   And it's glad to see that they didn't just buy Dark Sky

02:28:10   to have weather data for themselves.

02:28:12   They also are continuing it as an API for people to use,

02:28:15   and that's great.

02:28:17   - Yeah, and I believe the pricing is pretty competitive,

02:28:21   if not great, from what Underscore said.

02:28:23   So yeah, this is pretty awesome.

02:28:25   - Yeah.

02:28:26   - It was half the price, I think.

02:28:27   - Oh, so it's even better.

02:28:28   - Yeah, we have a link to his tweet about it somewhere.

02:28:31   - Fair enough.

02:28:33   We get some collaboration features.

02:28:36   We get Freeform app sneak peek,

02:28:40   which is I guess like a whiteboard app,

02:28:42   which looked really, really cool.

02:28:43   - Yeah, collaborative whiteboard basically.

02:28:46   - They had a bunch of this collaboration stuff,

02:28:48   like thread throughout the whole presentation.

02:28:50   In fact, not just the iPad OS section of all these different applications and APIs so you

02:28:55   can have multiple people do a thing with your app at the same time.

02:28:59   And it reminded me of an Apple version of what has always been the Google ethos for

02:29:05   their entire online office system, if they don't call it that, like Google Docs or Google

02:29:10   Sheets or whatever.

02:29:11   Google is, or Google Wave for that matter, a lot of things that Google does have inherently

02:29:16   be multi-user and multi-user simultaneous or sub-eth edit to go back in the day of Mac

02:29:22   platforms.

02:29:23   And Apple has those features on some of its apps and now it has more APIs to make that

02:29:27   better.

02:29:28   And I endorse this, but the thing about collaboration is if it is buggy or broken in any way, it

02:29:36   might as well not even exist.

02:29:38   Because it scares people away or worse, it doesn't scare people away and they use it

02:29:41   and they lose data and it just makes people angry.

02:29:43   It really needs to work in a way that you don't think about it

02:29:46   We have multiple people editing this ATP show notes document all the time and we never think about it

02:29:52   We just go do it happens all the time

02:29:54   No amount of our brain power is spent worrying about conflicts or bugs or I type this thing that didn't save

02:30:00   Whereas I've done multiple collaborations and multiple people commenting on like a word

02:30:05   Document and the latest and greatest version of word on multiple platforms and it sucks so bad

02:30:11   All you do is think about it should I what you end up messaging people in teams and saying can I go in the document?

02:30:18   Have you had your comment? I don't see it yet. Oh, it does updates wait. No, did you say if I didn't save the documents?

02:30:23   Locked I can't do a thing

02:30:25   Apple hopefully, you know as these API's and does it as well as Google with an interface that's trying to be like Microsoft

02:30:32   although I have to say with Microsoft native apps

02:30:34   I usually preferred back at my day job to use the web version of Word or the web version of Excel

02:30:41   because they had better, more reliable interfaces

02:30:44   for multi-user collaboration than the native versions.

02:30:47   That is wrong and should not be that way.

02:30:49   So where did Apple fall in this spectrum?

02:30:51   Are they reliable?

02:30:53   Would I rather use a web interface?

02:30:55   Is there a web interface?

02:30:56   I hope they do a good job with it

02:30:58   'cause collaboration is a thing

02:30:59   that I think we all take for granted,

02:31:01   which is why they're adding these features

02:31:02   and I think it's a great thing to add.

02:31:04   In particular, the freeform app I was excited about,

02:31:07   not because I wanna have an infinite whiteboard,

02:31:08   because whenever I'm on a FaceTime call with family,

02:31:11   I miss the old iChat feature of, like,

02:31:13   "Let's look at pictures together,"

02:31:15   because they want to see, "Oh, we went on a trip,

02:31:17   and there's a bunch of pictures."

02:31:19   And then we end up having to, like,

02:31:21   message the pictures to each other

02:31:22   and then switch out of the FaceTime app

02:31:24   to go look at photos, and my parents get confused

02:31:26   about multitasking.

02:31:27   They don't know how to get back to the call or whatever.

02:31:29   I just want us to all be together,

02:31:30   and let's all look at the pictures together.

02:31:32   It seems like Freeform might be able to do that

02:31:34   as one corner of its vast functionality,

02:31:37   And if so, I will use it and like it.

02:31:39   - There was another mention about gaming,

02:31:41   including background download API.

02:31:43   Game Center is still a thing,

02:31:44   which I completely forgot existed, but here we are.

02:31:48   There's some SharePlay stuff with gaming,

02:31:50   and I guess a bunch of that arrives later this year.

02:31:53   Then they started talking about the serious stuff

02:31:55   for serious iPad people, including desktop class apps.

02:31:59   They were very excited about undo and redo

02:32:01   across the entire system, availability view and calendar,

02:32:04   tons of files app updates, inline find and replace,

02:32:08   user customizable toolbars, and desktop class app APIs.

02:32:13   - As I said on Twitter, you've heard of Mac-assed Mac apps,

02:32:15   so this is Mac-assed iPad apps.

02:32:17   An iPad app, but with flexibility and features.

02:32:21   So commensurate with the hardware

02:32:22   that it is running on, in theory.

02:32:24   - In theory.

02:32:25   All right, then there's going to be a reference mode,

02:32:28   which is for photo and video editors

02:32:31   to get reference color on screens that support it.

02:32:33   And then I think everything from here on requires M1 iPads.

02:32:38   I might have that wrong, but I think that's the case.

02:32:41   - I believe that's true, yes.

02:32:43   - One of the things that is new is display scaling,

02:32:46   which I guess basically lets you make everything smaller

02:32:49   if you actually have good eyes, which I do not.

02:32:51   - Well, it's super important for the stage manager feature

02:32:54   because if you don't want your screen real estate

02:32:57   in terms of information display being eaten up

02:32:59   by that little column of stage manager things on the side,

02:33:03   scale the whole interface and now suddenly you're,

02:33:06   what was previously filling your screen,

02:33:08   all those same pixels are there,

02:33:09   just squished a little bit to make room on the side

02:33:12   for the stage manager thing.