461: Re-tend That Garden
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I have a pre-show.
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- All right and then if we don't have a better post-show,
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I did have a Synology adventure a week or two back
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that the both of you will find quite humorous
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because I almost died again.
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But we don't have to do that
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if we end up on something better.
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- I think we might leave there a little bit earlier.
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- Oh no, that scares me.
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I don't know, I don't like where this is going at all.
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- How long is your pre-show gonna be?
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If your pre-show's gonna be an hour long,
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maybe think of it as a topic.
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- We'll see.
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- Oh God, I'm very scared.
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- You're gonna be like, what is that movie?
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I mean, I think the Fugitive does it a few other ones.
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Todd tweets about it sometimes where like,
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the title card for the movie comes up 40 minutes in.
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- Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
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- Or the other one is like,
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when does the last credit appear on the screen?
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Some of those are like 40, 50 minutes into the movie.
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The last, it's as directed by whatever,
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like 50 minutes of the movie is ridiculous.
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- It's gonna be one of those days.
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- Oh wait, I need to open IRC, shoot.
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- Yeah, I didn't have it open either.
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- I kinda dislike Textual,
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'cause Textual is taking over like the T-E-X like shortcut,
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you know what I mean?
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'Cause I don't wanna launch TextEdit.
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- Okay, wait, you launch TextEdit?
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- That, for what?
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- Sometimes I need styled text.
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- Sometimes you need fonts, you know?
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- Yeah, but if you're, I mean,
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anything I would use rich text for,
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I would do in pages,
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'cause it's probably something I'm making,
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I'm printing out.
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- Pages, come on.
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- Why else would I use rich text?
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- Yeah, I kind of agree with Markle on this one,
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to be honest with you.
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- Like all plain text documents open up in TextMate,
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and for you I'm sure it's BB Edit,
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and for Casey I'm sure it's some kind of garbage thing
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made by Microsoft.
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- It's not some non-native app.
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- I've never actually used it,
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I don't even know how good it is,
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I'm sure it's fine.
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- TextEdit launches real fast,
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and if you just wanna do some style text,
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like, you know, say you wanna print like a label
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or something, I just wanna launch an app
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that launches real quick and print some style text.
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No way I would launch pages, you kidding?
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- I guess I would just use pages for that.
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- Oh, TextEdit launches instantly.
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- Maybe you're so accustomed to using
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a 12 year old computer that like now
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that you have a fast one, you don't realize like,
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oh, pages also launches instantly.
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- Yeah, right, let's see, let's see how long pages takes.
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Three, four, five, six, six bounces, six bounces,
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all right, now the text came up, all right.
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Now let's see TextEdit.
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TextEdit, one, done.
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- Yeah, six times faster, as counted in bounces.
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- All right, fair enough.
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- Before the show, John has instituted over the last,
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I don't know, six months, maybe a year,
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something that he likes to call pre-flight,
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where we kinda run through what we're gonna talk about,
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and it's actually very helpful,
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as much as I give him grief for it.
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And Marco just kinda slid in in the midst of pre-flight.
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I have a pre-show, which is fine,
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that's not entirely unusual.
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And then as we keep talking, I said,
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oh, you know, I have an after show
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about how I had a heart attack about my sonology,
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and Marco said, well, that might come up
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before the after show.
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I'm getting really nervous,
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and I would like to end my misery as quickly as possible.
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So what's going on, Marco?
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- Well, let me start by saying
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that my Mac Mini flooded my closet.
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What are you talking about?
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- I'm trying to think, what kind of things involving water
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does the Mac Mini control?
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The ice machine, no.
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So here's what happened, listeners.
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When I moved away from the Mac Mini as my desktop,
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when the Pro laptops came out,
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I switched, as you know, to my desktop laptop,
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which I'm still extremely happy with.
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And in fact, the Mac Mini and TIFF's old Intel MacBook Pro
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are both, as we speak, sitting in their trade-in boxes,
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waiting to be shipped out.
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The Mac Mini is no longer gonna be used as a home server,
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because what I was using it for,
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so here, backing up a little bit,
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when I got the new laptop,
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I figured I have some uses for a home server here and there,
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pretty light uses, if I'm honest,
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but I could use one here and there.
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Network storage is probably the biggest use case.
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And then I was thinking, in the past,
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I've used my Mac Mini back at Nether House.
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I used an old Intel Mac Mini to run the crappy software
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for my scanner and stuff like that
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that I didn't want cluttering up my main Mac.
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Or when I had the Synology back at home,
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I would run the iSCSI terminator on that Mac Mini,
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because iSCSI is such a garbage fire on Mac OS.
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But I was using iSCSI so the back please
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could back it up, remember that whole thing.
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So anyway, so I thought, I have some uses for a home server.
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That was the idea.
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And I had two eight terabyte external SSDs
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that were serving as massive storage for both me and TIFF.
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They were serving as time machine hosting,
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as well as archive storage.
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And because they were mounted on a Mac,
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the archive storage was also being backed up to back please.
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So I figured that was a really good solution overall.
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And I had originally got the SSDs
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so that it could live in my office
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because they don't make any noise
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and I don't allow fans in my office.
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So it was fine in my office,
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but my office here is kind of small
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and I wanted to get it out of my office
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because once it's operating as a server,
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a Mac Mini doesn't really need to be next to you.
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It can be anywhere in your network
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and it serves the same purpose.
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So I happened to have a closet nearby
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that hosts the router and the switch.
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I figured I can put the Mac Mini in this closet.
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It's perfect actually.
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There's plenty of room for it on this high up shelf.
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All the networking gear is right there.
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So I brought the Mac Mini in there about a month ago
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and I also brought with it
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the two eight terabyte external SSDs.
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And each one of those are just in like a $15 cable matters
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enclosure from Amazon where like one side is metal
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and the bottom plate is plastic
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and just like a basic USB-C external enclosure.
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I did run into a couple of issues there.
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The M1 Mac Mini is actually kind of a crappy server.
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It seems to require a keyboard
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to be connected to it to boot.
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I tried from previous Mac Minions,
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I knew that if you were gonna run a Mac Mini headless
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that you would want one of those little
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HDMI dummy port dongle things.
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That way it thinks there's a hardware monitor plugged in.
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That was the first thing I got.
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But the M1 series of Mac Minis is more complicated
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than that to run headless.
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You actually need a keyboard connected
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otherwise it will not boot headless.
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And I had mixed luck getting it to boot
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or not boot with a password.
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It ended up being complicated.
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So that was kind of crappy and I didn't love that.
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Other than that it seemed to work okay.
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But I did notice that every so often
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I would open up that closet
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and it would be really warm in there.
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- So I'm thinking like is,
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all I've changed recently is I put this Mac Mini there.
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Well I reached up and I felt and I noticed that
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those SSDs run pretty hot actually.
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Like for some reason an SSD that is idle most of the time
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for whatever reason these things run really hot.
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I imagine not all SSDs are like this
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but these big eight terabyte cheapo micron ones
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were definitely like this.
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- That's why Sony requires a heat sink on SSDs.
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If you buy like a third party M.2 SSD
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for your PlayStation 5 you must use a heat sink with it.
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- Interesting, yeah I mean I never really thought about
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whether SSDs run hot 'cause I always assumed they wouldn't.
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But no, I mean I'm sure it depends a lot on what they are
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and how they're controlled and everything
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but these definitely run pretty hot.
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I also noticed that the surface of the Mac Mini itself
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was like once it's in a warm closet
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it actually was kind of warm as well.
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I kind of made a mental note like I should probably
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move these somewhere else sometime.
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Well the other day I was working in that closet a little bit
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we have a printer in there too
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and I was trying to feed some stuff into the printer
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and I noticed that the shelf was wet.
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- Because one other thing I keep in that closet,
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it well kept in that closet.
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- Oh no, blocks of ice?
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- Is a gallon of distilled water
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for putting into my rowing machine.
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- Oh this is distilled water so then that shouldn't
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conduct electricity as easily right?
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- Theoretically I hope, yeah.
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So I noticed that the gallon of distilled water
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that was back there was about half filled
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and kind of imploded slightly like as if
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there had been some thermal contraction.
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- Is the gallon of whatever water,
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that's on the floor right?
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- No it's up on the shelf along with everything else.
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- Oh imagine that.
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- You put a thing of water high up on a shelf.
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- Imagine that, imagine.
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It could just happen to you.
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It could just happen to you John, it happens.
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- Like it's heavy, like don't you want it on the ground?
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You don't want to reach up to a high shelf
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and pull down a big thing of water.
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- It's a big shelf, I mean the weight wasn't a problem.
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A gallon of water weighs what like seven pounds?
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- Can we just learn putting water up high
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is called a water tower and it's to get water pressure
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in some places, some places in the Midwest right?
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Don't do that in your house unless you're trying
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to create a miniature water tower for a tiny Lego village
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that you have on the floor.
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- Well anyway, most of the water,
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well about half of that gallon of water
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had leaked out over some time period.
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It sure looks like it was due to some thermal issues
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that were happening nearby.
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- So it got so hot that it melted or weakened
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the wall of a plastic container containing water?
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- It seemed to have weakened the wall of it enough
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to make a tiny little hole somewhere on one of the seams.
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- What kind of container is this coming?
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Can you describe, like what is it?
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- Like a gallon of milk, that big plastic.
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- Exactly like a gallon of milk?
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- Yeah, like the big plastic thing with the handle.
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- Yeah no, do not put jugs full of milk high up
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on shelves near electronics, what are you doing?
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- It was distilled water, it's not conducting.
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Anyway, I'd never seen this happen before.
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- It's right next to the mineral oil.
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- So anyway, fortunately nothing was damaged
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and the water didn't escape the shelf
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and stain the floor or anything, so that's good.
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And didn't even seem to stain the shelf somehow.
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I guess it's a good shelf.
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So anyway, besides a couple of sheets of printer paper
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that got wet and got ruined and a few cardboard boxes
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for things that didn't need anymore,
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including this Mac Mini, nothing else seemed
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to have been damaged by this, so fortunately that's good.
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- Wait, are you gonna trade in this Mac Mini now
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that's been in the water?
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- The Mac Mini was not in the water.
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It was one shelf above.
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- All right.
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- Same closet, one shelf above.
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Anyway, so I realized I need to get rid
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of the situation now.
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I mean also I need to stop collecting water in my closet,
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but that problem just solved itself.
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There is now no more water left in my closet.
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- My closet has good drainage that it just leak
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out of your house.
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- No, it just sat on the shelf.
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It didn't have enough surface tension,
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or there wasn't enough volume of water
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to overcome the surface tension, make it go over the edge.
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So it was just like a shallow layer of water on the shelf,
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but I don't know.
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Anyway, that's not the point of the story.
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- Do you have photo, even if you don't post them,
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we need some private photos of--
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- Yes, concur.
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- I didn't take them.
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I was busy freaking out and getting paper towels.
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I'm just gonna say to the listeners, in general,
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I know you hear the idea of like a server closet
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or whatever, but closets are terrible places
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for anything that produces heat.
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Unless you have a ventilated closet,
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a closet that has air flow going into and out of it,
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don't put things in closets or media cabinets
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for that matter, if they're entirely enclosed.
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You need some source of fresh, cool air
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for your electronics to be healthy.
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- Turns out.
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So anyway, and yeah, this is not a ventilated closet.
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Although the networking gear does fine in there.
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You know, it's the Ubiquiti Dream Machine,
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a big switch, like, you know, it's fine.
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I'm sure it does fine 'cause it's more tolerant,
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but it's not great for that either.
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- Well, but I've literally, like, with the exception
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of since I moved the Mac Mini in there,
00:12:03
◼
►
I've never opened up that closet
00:12:05
◼
►
and felt it noticeably warm.
00:12:06
◼
►
And it's an interior closet to the house,
00:12:08
◼
►
so it doesn't get too hot in the summer
00:12:09
◼
►
or too cold in the winter either, so anyway.
00:12:11
◼
►
I have to adjust my Mac Mini setup.
00:12:14
◼
►
So I have a couple other places around the house
00:12:17
◼
►
I could put it that are like somewhat enclosed,
00:12:19
◼
►
but better thermally controlled.
00:12:21
◼
►
Like there's a utility closet on the outside
00:12:23
◼
►
that has electrical stuff in it and that's fairly controlled,
00:12:26
◼
►
so I'm like, all right, I could put it in there.
00:12:28
◼
►
But I realized I was doing all this, you know,
00:12:32
◼
►
this Mac Mini, I looked up the trade-in price,
00:12:35
◼
►
and the trade-in price was like $800.
00:12:38
◼
►
- With Apple or with someone else?
00:12:39
◼
►
- With Apple. - Okay.
00:12:40
◼
►
- So I was like, all right, I could trade this in.
00:12:44
◼
►
What do I actually need this for?
00:12:45
◼
►
Could I get away with less?
00:12:47
◼
►
Is there something else that I could spend the $800 on
00:12:49
◼
►
that might solve my needs in a better way
00:12:53
◼
►
and or, you know, something like,
00:12:55
◼
►
this is not a great solution that I have here.
00:12:57
◼
►
It seems like both a waste of a perfectly good
00:12:59
◼
►
M1 workstation computer that could be used in other ways
00:13:04
◼
►
and also, you know, this is not a great storage solution
00:13:08
◼
►
physically or logically, like as I mentioned,
00:13:11
◼
►
it's kind of a crappy home server.
00:13:13
◼
►
So I thought, all right, let me think about
00:13:15
◼
►
some other options here.
00:13:16
◼
►
As much as I hated to admit this,
00:13:20
◼
►
I thought maybe some kind of network-attached storage
00:13:24
◼
►
would probably solve this need better.
00:13:27
◼
►
The main thing I needed it for is Time Machine.
00:13:30
◼
►
Tiff and I now both have large laptop internal storage,
00:13:34
◼
►
and we can fit almost all of our archive files
00:13:37
◼
►
on our laptops.
00:13:38
◼
►
All we really need something else for is Time Machine.
00:13:41
◼
►
The Time Machine does have to be fairly large, though.
00:13:44
◼
►
Tiff's laptop is eight terabytes minus four.
00:13:46
◼
►
I need a lot of terabytes of Time Machine,
00:13:48
◼
►
and not much else.
00:13:50
◼
►
So I basically just need like, what were those,
00:13:53
◼
►
time capsule, I need a time capsule,
00:13:54
◼
►
but like for the modern age.
00:13:56
◼
►
So I decided this would be best solved
00:14:02
◼
►
by a network-attached storage device.
00:14:04
◼
►
- Indeed, putting storage on the network
00:14:06
◼
►
would indeed be best solved
00:14:09
◼
►
by a network-attached storage device, I agree.
00:14:11
◼
►
- Preferably that you do not store in a closet.
00:14:16
◼
►
- So what did you buy?
00:14:17
◼
►
- Take a guess.
00:14:19
◼
►
- Did you buy a Synology?
00:14:22
◼
►
- I got a Synology, I got another one.
00:14:25
◼
►
- Attaboy, which ones you get?
00:14:27
◼
►
- So here, I'm not even sure I should tell you.
00:14:31
◼
►
Honestly, I'm not up to date on the newest Synology stuff.
00:14:33
◼
►
In fact, I was just discussing this with a friend
00:14:35
◼
►
via text the other day.
00:14:37
◼
►
My Synology, my primary Synology that I use
00:14:39
◼
►
probably more heavily than either of you guys
00:14:41
◼
►
is still the original one that Synology sent us in like 2013.
00:14:45
◼
►
It's almost 10 years old.
00:14:46
◼
►
Now granted, it's a ship of Theseus.
00:14:48
◼
►
- The 1813 Plus, right?
00:14:50
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, yep, yep, the 1813 Plus.
00:14:51
◼
►
- I upgraded the RAM on mine, did I tell you that?
00:14:53
◼
►
- No, you didn't, was that easy?
00:14:54
◼
►
- 'Cause when Synology's like OS 7 came out,
00:14:57
◼
►
they said, oh, you know, you can get by with as much RAM
00:15:00
◼
►
or you recommend that much, and I'm like, huh,
00:15:01
◼
►
I wonder how hard it is to upgrade the RAM on Synology.
00:15:04
◼
►
Turns out it's not hard at all.
00:15:05
◼
►
It's super cheap, I bought a little RAM expansion thing,
00:15:08
◼
►
opened it up, shoved it on while I was in there,
00:15:09
◼
►
I sprayed out some of the dust, slapped it back together,
00:15:11
◼
►
it's got like double the RAM that it had before.
00:15:14
◼
►
Still going strong.
00:15:15
◼
►
- Can we put that in the parking lot
00:15:16
◼
►
and talk about it later, please?
00:15:18
◼
►
'Cause I genuinely would like to know about that,
00:15:20
◼
►
but we can take that offline.
00:15:21
◼
►
So yeah, so anyway, very briefly,
00:15:24
◼
►
so I have this 1813 Plus that's sitting here now,
00:15:27
◼
►
despite my tale of woe that I'll hopefully get to later,
00:15:30
◼
►
is running really well, but I know the clock is ticking,
00:15:34
◼
►
and as you, as listeners have really found out
00:15:38
◼
►
in the last couple of weeks,
00:15:39
◼
►
I am a little bit on the frugal side,
00:15:40
◼
►
and I really don't want to buy another 8-base Synology,
00:15:43
◼
►
and then the proper answer's probably to fill it
00:15:46
◼
►
with all new hard drives, rather than to just extract
00:15:49
◼
►
the ones in the current Synology
00:15:51
◼
►
and pump them over to the new one.
00:15:52
◼
►
So that's like a several thousand dollar expenditure
00:15:55
◼
►
that I really don't feel like doing right now.
00:15:58
◼
►
- Wait, wait, how much space are you using?
00:16:00
◼
►
- I think I'm using around 11 terabytes at the moment.
00:16:03
◼
►
- Okay, I can tell you exactly how much it would cost
00:16:05
◼
►
to replace that, because I just did that.
00:16:07
◼
►
- Good, okay, well tell me more.
00:16:09
◼
►
- But then Marco gave the one that's all SSDs.
00:16:11
◼
►
- Yeah, that's the thing.
00:16:12
◼
►
- Well, I thought about it.
00:16:13
◼
►
So first I thought, all right, if I get,
00:16:15
◼
►
they made a few years ago, I don't think any of them
00:16:19
◼
►
were still made, but they made some that only took
00:16:21
◼
►
two and a half inch disks.
00:16:23
◼
►
- Oh, I didn't know that.
00:16:24
◼
►
- Oh, no, you don't want that, that's gross.
00:16:25
◼
►
- There was a little tiny 6 bay.
00:16:27
◼
►
- Oh, I bet that was adorable.
00:16:28
◼
►
- It was, yeah, there's a 6 bay, it's called the DS620 Slim.
00:16:32
◼
►
It doesn't seem like it's currently made,
00:16:34
◼
►
but you can still find a couple of them
00:16:35
◼
►
for sale here and there.
00:16:36
◼
►
But it's like a little tiny 6 bay SSD only one,
00:16:40
◼
►
which I thought was kind of cool.
00:16:42
◼
►
But I realized, okay, for my actual needs here,
00:16:45
◼
►
A, I don't have six SSD sized disks.
00:16:49
◼
►
I don't really need to or want to have those.
00:16:52
◼
►
And also, I want this to be very large storage.
00:16:56
◼
►
And it can be very large, very cheap.
00:16:59
◼
►
And so I'm looking at three and a half inch drives.
00:17:01
◼
►
But I also realized, I also don't want,
00:17:03
◼
►
my needs here, while they are large, they are also simple.
00:17:07
◼
►
I'm not running Plex on this thing.
00:17:09
◼
►
I'm not gonna get into the Docker fest and running apps
00:17:14
◼
►
and having it download pirated movies for me and everything.
00:17:16
◼
►
I'm not gonna do any of that stuff.
00:17:18
◼
►
It just needs to host Time Machine.
00:17:20
◼
►
A Raspberry Pi could possibly have done this
00:17:24
◼
►
with more work. (laughs)
00:17:25
◼
►
So it's really, it's fine.
00:17:28
◼
►
Anyway, so I decided I'm just gonna get a small one.
00:17:32
◼
►
Now I know Merlin would kill me if I got a 2 bay.
00:17:36
◼
►
- And that is correct, by the way.
00:17:38
◼
►
- But I really only want two disks.
00:17:40
◼
►
If all I'm doing is Time Machine,
00:17:42
◼
►
theoretically I could get a one bay one.
00:17:44
◼
►
Because I can just get a single 16 terabyte hard drive
00:17:47
◼
►
and be fine.
00:17:48
◼
►
Like that's all I would really need.
00:17:50
◼
►
- And in your defense, when we had first gotten
00:17:52
◼
►
these technologies almost a decade ago,
00:17:55
◼
►
you and I were talking, maybe it was all three of us,
00:17:57
◼
►
but I remember particularly you and I, Marco,
00:17:58
◼
►
were talking about how to allocate these eight drives.
00:18:02
◼
►
And what you had said you were gonna do,
00:18:03
◼
►
and I agreed with it, and still am doing to this day,
00:18:05
◼
►
is you said you were gonna, what is it,
00:18:07
◼
►
RAID 0, two of the physical drives,
00:18:09
◼
►
which is to say make it as though
00:18:11
◼
►
it's virtually one large drive.
00:18:14
◼
►
But the only thing that gets put on that drive
00:18:17
◼
►
is Time Machine.
00:18:18
◼
►
Because that's redundant, and yes,
00:18:20
◼
►
I'm sure Jon is fuming right now,
00:18:22
◼
►
but I concur with you, Marco,
00:18:23
◼
►
that for something that is already redundant,
00:18:26
◼
►
it is not the end of the earth if it poops the bed.
00:18:28
◼
►
- Right, it's like if you have Time Machine and Backblaze,
00:18:31
◼
►
you're pretty well covered,
00:18:33
◼
►
and you can put that Time Machine on a single disk
00:18:35
◼
►
or a RAID 0 or whatever, it's fine.
00:18:37
◼
►
- If you like to live dangerously,
00:18:38
◼
►
I'll cross that bridge when I eventually run out of storage,
00:18:41
◼
►
'cause that's like the last bridge,
00:18:42
◼
►
like how do I get more storage back?
00:18:44
◼
►
Well, I'll break that RAID array,
00:18:46
◼
►
break that RAID 5 array and put it into RAID 0,
00:18:48
◼
►
and voila, you've like doubled your,
00:18:50
◼
►
and that's where I'm gonna run out of storage,
00:18:52
◼
►
'cause we back up everything to Time Machine,
00:18:54
◼
►
to that all the laptops in the house,
00:18:55
◼
►
all the desktops, everything,
00:18:57
◼
►
and that adds up after a while.
00:18:58
◼
►
- Yeah, so anyway, I realized my actual storage needs are,
00:19:04
◼
►
they're large in the sense of,
00:19:06
◼
►
we have roughly 12 terabytes, maybe 13,
00:19:10
◼
►
of Time Machine data that I wanna back up.
00:19:13
◼
►
- That's a lot.
00:19:14
◼
►
- But also, modern hard drives go up to 18 terabytes.
00:19:18
◼
►
So in a sense, it is a lot, like in absolute terms,
00:19:23
◼
►
but relative to modern hard drives,
00:19:25
◼
►
if you're buying new equipment, it kind of isn't a lot.
00:19:28
◼
►
That's why I said I could get away with a one or two bay one
00:19:32
◼
►
because really, I just need like one drive worth of storage.
00:19:37
◼
►
So I looked at my options.
00:19:39
◼
►
I ended up going with one called the DS420J.
00:19:44
◼
►
It's four bays, and it has otherwise
00:19:47
◼
►
pretty minimal features.
00:19:49
◼
►
Nothing is hot-swappable on it.
00:19:51
◼
►
It doesn't have, I don't think it has any of the like
00:19:54
◼
►
fancy media encoding features or anything like that,
00:19:57
◼
►
but what's nice about the 420J is that it is compact
00:20:02
◼
►
and quiet and low-powered.
00:20:05
◼
►
And so if you're going to put it in a closet or something,
00:20:08
◼
►
those are pretty attractive qualities,
00:20:10
◼
►
and it's not that expensive.
00:20:13
◼
►
It's $300 empty.
00:20:14
◼
►
- That's really not bad.
00:20:15
◼
►
- Yeah, for a four bay Synology, that's pretty good.
00:20:18
◼
►
- And by the way, looking at the official site
00:20:21
◼
►
for this device, DS420J is a four bay desktop NAS
00:20:25
◼
►
designed for home data backup, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:20:29
◼
►
You're barking up the correct tree, I would say.
00:20:31
◼
►
- But is it rated for outdoor use?
00:20:35
◼
►
- As long as there's a roof over it, it'll be fine, right?
00:20:37
◼
►
- Yeah, theoretically.
00:20:38
◼
►
- Yeah, totally, totally.
00:20:38
◼
►
- The rain doesn't get to that area.
00:20:42
◼
►
So I got it, I set it up today, and I put into it
00:20:48
◼
►
only two drives so far.
00:20:49
◼
►
I figure if I really need expansion later,
00:20:51
◼
►
I can expand later.
00:20:52
◼
►
I probably never will.
00:20:55
◼
►
But it's good to have the four bays for flexibility
00:20:57
◼
►
in the future if need be, given that the price
00:20:59
◼
►
was so good on this.
00:21:00
◼
►
And the drives I got were two Seagate whatever, whatever,
00:21:04
◼
►
18 terabyte drives that for some reason are on sale
00:21:08
◼
►
right now for like $350 each.
00:21:10
◼
►
- Where, how do you get the drives in this thing?
00:21:14
◼
►
- You actually unscrew the butt.
00:21:16
◼
►
It's like those old overalls where you unbutton things
00:21:20
◼
►
for the butt access panel.
00:21:21
◼
►
- Yeah, I saw in the back panel, I see two big openings
00:21:24
◼
►
for fans, so you open that up.
00:21:26
◼
►
- You see those giant black thumb screws on the corners
00:21:29
◼
►
of those fan panel, you unscrew all those,
00:21:31
◼
►
and the whole back hinges down.
00:21:33
◼
►
- And then does it flap down like a door?
00:21:35
◼
►
Yeah, I see it.
00:21:36
◼
►
Do the fans come with it when it hinges down?
00:21:38
◼
►
- And then it's just four vertically stacked.
00:21:40
◼
►
- And then, yeah, it is.
00:21:41
◼
►
You have these four trays you pull out
00:21:43
◼
►
and stick the hard drives in.
00:21:44
◼
►
Yeah, so it's fine.
00:21:46
◼
►
I did the new setup, I mean, the last time I set up
00:21:50
◼
►
a Synology was 2013, they've come a long way since then.
00:21:54
◼
►
I did it all from an iPhone app to start,
00:21:56
◼
►
like the whole finding your IP and setting up
00:21:57
◼
►
your admin password and stuff.
00:21:59
◼
►
And I did the rest of the setup via the web interface,
00:22:02
◼
►
when I had to enable time machine shares.
00:22:04
◼
►
It's been totally fine to set up,
00:22:06
◼
►
it was a very quick and easy process.
00:22:09
◼
►
It was really nice.
00:22:11
◼
►
So overall, I'm satisfied so far, we'll see how it goes,
00:22:14
◼
►
but I think this will be a really good solution.
00:22:18
◼
►
And I've decided here, in the past I have had issues,
00:22:23
◼
►
as talked on the show, about how the heck do you back up
00:22:28
◼
►
- Yeah, tell me about it.
00:22:29
◼
►
- You can't use Backblaze or any good cloud backup for it.
00:22:33
◼
►
- You can use B2.
00:22:35
◼
►
- Well, right, but you can't have unlimited capacity.
00:22:38
◼
►
You gotta pay per gig, and you can use various services
00:22:41
◼
►
to pay per gig.
00:22:42
◼
►
Backblaze B2 is one of those services,
00:22:43
◼
►
or you could do S3 or whatever else.
00:22:45
◼
►
So those options exist, I don't love those options.
00:22:48
◼
►
What I decided to do with this is,
00:22:51
◼
►
because we now both have these large laptops,
00:22:54
◼
►
and because the Synology, we mostly just need it
00:22:56
◼
►
for Time Machine, I decided to only use it
00:22:59
◼
►
for Time Machine, effectively.
00:23:01
◼
►
Maybe I'll, if I have some kind of weird app I wanna run on,
00:23:04
◼
►
maybe I'll do that in the future.
00:23:05
◼
►
Again, I don't think it's very likely,
00:23:07
◼
►
but what I really want here is for the computers themselves
00:23:10
◼
►
that we're using to be the primary storage,
00:23:14
◼
►
and to have the network attacks thing only be for backup.
00:23:18
◼
►
And that way, I never have to worry about how the heck
00:23:20
◼
►
I back up the Synology.
00:23:22
◼
►
- I recommend eventually, it's hard for me to believe
00:23:25
◼
►
that you're gonna have this four-bay Synology
00:23:26
◼
►
that you only have two bays filled on,
00:23:28
◼
►
that you're only ever gonna use it for Time Machine.
00:23:29
◼
►
Eventually, inevitably, you're gonna fill
00:23:31
◼
►
those other two bays, then you're gonna have more storage
00:23:33
◼
►
than you need, then you're gonna put files on it,
00:23:34
◼
►
and then you're gonna think about backing it up.
00:23:36
◼
►
And when you do that, several years from now,
00:23:38
◼
►
I'm here to tell you, using the native, or whatever,
00:23:41
◼
►
the Synology B2 backup thing, and just pointing it,
00:23:44
◼
►
not at your Time Machine volume, but at your other volume,
00:23:46
◼
►
it's really simple, it's pretty darn cheap.
00:23:48
◼
►
It's not as cheap as the $5 flat rate per month,
00:23:51
◼
►
whatever Backblaze is now.
00:23:53
◼
►
You pay per byte that you store, but to give an example,
00:23:57
◼
►
you know what I back up from my Synology?
00:24:00
◼
►
Yes, there's a smattering of files
00:24:01
◼
►
that are only on the Synology for storage, or whatever,
00:24:03
◼
►
and of course, they get backed up through B2.
00:24:06
◼
►
I back up my media library, which I don't need any of that.
00:24:09
◼
►
I can reconstitute that at any time from other sources,
00:24:11
◼
►
but I don't want to, so I pay to back it up to B2.
00:24:15
◼
►
- You're talking about things like blue-rays and stuff?
00:24:17
◼
►
- Yeah. - That's gotta be a fortune.
00:24:19
◼
►
- It's not, it's like $8 a month.
00:24:21
◼
►
- No, B2's really cheap. (laughs)
00:24:22
◼
►
- Yeah, that's what I'm saying, it's not that much money.
00:24:24
◼
►
- I looked at this, and for 10 terabytes,
00:24:26
◼
►
it was not cheap at all.
00:24:28
◼
►
- Well, I also have two Synologies,
00:24:31
◼
►
and I back up one Synology to the other Synology,
00:24:34
◼
►
a subset of it, right?
00:24:35
◼
►
So I've got the big Synology,
00:24:36
◼
►
and then a subset of the big Synology syncs,
00:24:39
◼
►
again, through built-in software
00:24:40
◼
►
that comes with the Synology,
00:24:42
◼
►
I can sync a subset of it to the other Synology.
00:24:45
◼
►
It's very convenient.
00:24:46
◼
►
- Yeah, it's $5 per terabyte per month,
00:24:49
◼
►
so that's 50 bucks a month for me.
00:24:52
◼
►
- Yeah, I don't have a giant media library.
00:24:54
◼
►
- Yeah, see, that's the problem
00:24:55
◼
►
with having a giant media library.
00:24:57
◼
►
- See, I've decided for that,
00:24:59
◼
►
I mean, look, I ripped a lot of blue-rays and DVDs
00:25:02
◼
►
in my time, but I decided,
00:25:04
◼
►
I have all those sitting on my other Synology,
00:25:06
◼
►
I have all those sitting there, and I never watch them.
00:25:08
◼
►
Most of the movies that I've bought on physical media,
00:25:13
◼
►
either I never watch, or when I want to watch them,
00:25:16
◼
►
I can watch them on whatever iTunes is called now,
00:25:20
◼
►
because I hooked up that Movies Anywhere thing years back,
00:25:23
◼
►
and so all those purchases,
00:25:25
◼
►
I redeemed all the blue-ray codes for all the discs I had,
00:25:28
◼
►
and so almost every movie I own on physical media,
00:25:31
◼
►
in any modern format like blue-ray,
00:25:33
◼
►
I have access to that for free,
00:25:35
◼
►
or for no additional cost, through iTunes.
00:25:38
◼
►
So I can always just go and watch those whenever I want,
00:25:41
◼
►
and yeah, the quality is not gonna be as good
00:25:44
◼
►
streaming, playing off of the Apple Store
00:25:46
◼
►
compared to a much higher bit-rate blue-ray,
00:25:49
◼
►
but I also just don't care anymore,
00:25:51
◼
►
and I've decided the simplicity of that setup
00:25:54
◼
►
is so much nicer than having to maintain
00:25:58
◼
►
my own physical copy, or whatever,
00:26:01
◼
►
physical or digital copy of this thing,
00:26:03
◼
►
like sitting on a disc I own somewhere,
00:26:05
◼
►
and having to worry about things like file management
00:26:08
◼
►
and backups and data integrity, all that stuff.
00:26:11
◼
►
I've just decided, there's so much in my life
00:26:14
◼
►
that I care so deeply about and that I nerd out about,
00:26:17
◼
►
I had to get rid of some stuff,
00:26:18
◼
►
and that's one of the things I got rid of.
00:26:20
◼
►
- You know, and that makes sense,
00:26:22
◼
►
especially if you're only consuming media
00:26:24
◼
►
that's easily findable, replaceable, buyable, whatever.
00:26:26
◼
►
- Fair point.
00:26:27
◼
►
- As we've talked about a lot,
00:26:28
◼
►
and I don't need to belabor the point,
00:26:30
◼
►
that I tend to track down, and I don't necessarily,
00:26:33
◼
►
that's not like a tongue-in-cheek way of saying pirate,
00:26:35
◼
►
although occasionally that might happen,
00:26:37
◼
►
but generally speaking, I'm able to track down,
00:26:39
◼
►
or YouTube DL or something,
00:26:41
◼
►
something that doesn't exist anywhere else,
00:26:43
◼
►
or doesn't exist in a way that's easily replaceable,
00:26:46
◼
►
and so on and so forth.
00:26:46
◼
►
So I think for your purposes,
00:26:49
◼
►
and I don't mean to sound dismissive, I apologize if I do,
00:26:51
◼
►
but for your purposes, I agree with you.
00:26:53
◼
►
What you're doing is the right approach.
00:26:54
◼
►
For me, it's not quite so simple,
00:26:56
◼
►
because not only do I have a lot of media
00:26:59
◼
►
that's not easily, not easy to replace,
00:27:01
◼
►
but I'm often tweaking that media,
00:27:03
◼
►
so I'm adding chapters or doing this or doing that,
00:27:05
◼
►
and so that's part of the reason why I am going through
00:27:08
◼
►
this ridiculous amount of administrate and headache
00:27:12
◼
►
to maintain my Plex library,
00:27:13
◼
►
because as ridiculous as it probably seems and maybe is,
00:27:17
◼
►
it does provide me an immense amount of joy,
00:27:19
◼
►
and it is not easy for me to just replace.
00:27:21
◼
►
Like Jon, you said a minute ago,
00:27:22
◼
►
"Oh, I can just get this stuff back from other sources."
00:27:24
◼
►
A lot of the stuff I have in Plex I could,
00:27:26
◼
►
but not all of it,
00:27:27
◼
►
and I would be devastated if I lost it.
00:27:29
◼
►
- It's not so much that I can't get this stuff back.
00:27:31
◼
►
It's that I do tend my Plex library a little bit.
00:27:34
◼
►
Like, I put custom artwork on some things,
00:27:35
◼
►
'cause I didn't like the default ones.
00:27:37
◼
►
I messed with the metadata.
00:27:38
◼
►
I have 17 versions of Star Wars
00:27:39
◼
►
that I kinda have to hand roll,
00:27:41
◼
►
because Plex just knows about Star Wars,
00:27:43
◼
►
but then I got all the different versions,
00:27:45
◼
►
and I want them labeled, and you know, like,
00:27:46
◼
►
and if it went away and I lost that,
00:27:50
◼
►
it's like, "Oh, well, you can get those things back,"
00:27:52
◼
►
but now I have to go and re-tend that garden.
00:27:54
◼
►
I have to remember where did I find that good artwork
00:27:58
◼
►
that I liked for this?
00:27:58
◼
►
Did I save a little subfolder of like Synology custom artwork
00:28:02
◼
►
on my Mac, or did I not do that?
00:28:04
◼
►
How did I set up the metadata
00:28:05
◼
►
for these different versions of Star Wars
00:28:07
◼
►
so they're all set up correctly?
00:28:08
◼
►
Just how do I recreate the folder structure the right way?
00:28:11
◼
►
Like, it's not just the data.
00:28:12
◼
►
It's the tending to it.
00:28:13
◼
►
It's the same thing with my photo library.
00:28:15
◼
►
Worst case scenario, like, I have my photos backed up
00:28:17
◼
►
a million times, including to Google Photos again,
00:28:19
◼
►
but Google Photos doesn't have any of my metadata about it,
00:28:22
◼
►
and I would be devastated to lose all that metadata,
00:28:24
◼
►
so part of me backing up my iCloud photo library
00:28:27
◼
►
a thousand times is because I never wanna lose
00:28:30
◼
►
all of the work that I have poured into tending
00:28:32
◼
►
that particular garden of, you know, tagging photos
00:28:35
◼
►
and editing them and cropping them
00:28:37
◼
►
and putting them into albums and sub-albums
00:28:39
◼
►
and the smart folders and, like, you know, keywords,
00:28:43
◼
►
and, like, that's time I've invested into this library.
00:28:46
◼
►
It's not a lot of data.
00:28:46
◼
►
That metadata is probably, like, you know,
00:28:48
◼
►
less than 100 megabytes or something,
00:28:50
◼
►
but that is the most important part of it.
00:28:52
◼
►
Yes, obviously you want the photos themselves,
00:28:53
◼
►
which is why in the end my backstop against my backstop
00:28:57
◼
►
against my backstop is, you know,
00:28:59
◼
►
oh, at least I still have the photos,
00:29:00
◼
►
and that's better than, you know,
00:29:01
◼
►
that's what you really want,
00:29:03
◼
►
but the real thing that would devastate me
00:29:05
◼
►
if I still had the photos is if I lost all that metadata.
00:29:07
◼
►
I do less tweaking to Plex.
00:29:08
◼
►
There's probably enough customization
00:29:09
◼
►
that one day worth of banging my head against it
00:29:11
◼
►
I could get it back to the way I wanted it,
00:29:13
◼
►
but I don't want to spend that day, so, yeah,
00:29:15
◼
►
I just back it all up, and the good thing
00:29:18
◼
►
about Network Attack Storage is, for me anyway,
00:29:20
◼
►
it's a big noisy thing, but it's in my basement.
00:29:22
◼
►
I never hear it.
00:29:23
◼
►
I never see it.
00:29:24
◼
►
It backs up the B2 with me not having to do anything,
00:29:26
◼
►
and it just runs, and it's been running
00:29:27
◼
►
for 10 years with no problems.
00:29:29
◼
►
- Yeah, I cannot say enough good things about Synology,
00:29:32
◼
►
and that's why, as cheap as I am,
00:29:34
◼
►
I will at some point either because I'll be forced to
00:29:37
◼
►
or because I'm finally being proactive,
00:29:39
◼
►
I will be buying another one.
00:29:40
◼
►
Now, maybe it won't be eight bay.
00:29:41
◼
►
Maybe it'll be six, 'cause drives are getting bigger,
00:29:43
◼
►
blah, blah, blah.
00:29:44
◼
►
I don't know.
00:29:45
◼
►
I haven't really looked into it, but I will be getting--
00:29:46
◼
►
- Here's the thing I'm telling you.
00:29:48
◼
►
My setup here was about $1,000 total
00:29:50
◼
►
for 18 terabytes of RAID 1.
00:29:53
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
00:29:53
◼
►
- That's pretty good, and I have two extra bays
00:29:55
◼
►
for the future if I really need that,
00:29:57
◼
►
but the drives are so big.
00:30:00
◼
►
The days of any of the three of us
00:30:02
◼
►
needing a six bay NAS are over.
00:30:06
◼
►
- Well-- - I don't know.
00:30:07
◼
►
When I look at them, I also look at new Synologies,
00:30:09
◼
►
and I think because storage is so cheap,
00:30:12
◼
►
I think both Casey and I are of the mind
00:30:14
◼
►
that if we had 10 times more space,
00:30:18
◼
►
we can think of things to use it for.
00:30:19
◼
►
- Oh, heck yes.
00:30:20
◼
►
- That's the thing, I really can't.
00:30:21
◼
►
That's why I went this direction.
00:30:23
◼
►
I looked at what is my personal slice of the archive drive.
00:30:29
◼
►
Tiff's is a little bit bigger.
00:30:30
◼
►
She has more of the family photos from big events and stuff,
00:30:34
◼
►
but my slice of the archive drive is 1 1/2 terabytes.
00:30:37
◼
►
So I just copied those files onto my laptop
00:30:41
◼
►
in a folder called Archive, and it fit.
00:30:44
◼
►
I have less pre-space now, but it still fit just fine.
00:30:48
◼
►
And so now that's, okay, this is just primary storage now.
00:30:51
◼
►
Archive is simply a filing system as opposed to,
00:30:55
◼
►
not a file system, a filing system concept
00:30:57
◼
►
as opposed to a physical distinction of how it is stored.
00:31:02
◼
►
- Yeah, again, I don't mean to sound dismissive.
00:31:05
◼
►
I think for the purposes that you are talking about,
00:31:07
◼
►
I think you made the exact right choice.
00:31:09
◼
►
And I'm glad that #CaseyWasRight
00:31:12
◼
►
and that you should have and did eventually
00:31:15
◼
►
end up with Synology.
00:31:16
◼
►
So what we're learning over the last month or so on ETP
00:31:18
◼
►
is that I need to listen to you more,
00:31:21
◼
►
you need to listen to me more,
00:31:22
◼
►
and probably neither of those things
00:31:24
◼
►
is going to end up happening.
00:31:26
◼
►
That's okay.
00:31:27
◼
►
All right, so now that we're 40 minutes in,
00:31:28
◼
►
you wanna start the show?
00:31:30
◼
►
- Directed by Margot Arment.
00:31:32
◼
►
(upbeat music)
00:31:33
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Linode,
00:31:36
◼
►
my favorite place to run my servers.
00:31:38
◼
►
Visit linode.com/ATP, see why Linode has been voted
00:31:42
◼
►
the top infrastructure as a service provider
00:31:44
◼
►
by both G2 and TrustRadius.
00:31:46
◼
►
I run all of my servers at Linode.
00:31:50
◼
►
These are wonderful virtual cloud servers that, frankly,
00:31:53
◼
►
it offers every feature you can possibly imagine.
00:31:55
◼
►
So obviously there's all the benefits of virtual servers.
00:31:58
◼
►
You can move them around to different hardware,
00:32:00
◼
►
you can resize them up and down in resource needs,
00:32:02
◼
►
all sorts of protections and conveniences available there.
00:32:06
◼
►
But what it comes down to for me for Linode
00:32:07
◼
►
is first of all, amazing performance.
00:32:10
◼
►
They have really high-end hardware.
00:32:12
◼
►
They are one of the first hosts to go all SSD,
00:32:15
◼
►
and they just are always leading the way
00:32:17
◼
►
in terms of performance of what you get
00:32:19
◼
►
on those cloud instances.
00:32:20
◼
►
And they also just have a really great
00:32:23
◼
►
infrastructure around it.
00:32:24
◼
►
They have an amazing control panel,
00:32:26
◼
►
they have amazing tools and API to automate stuff,
00:32:30
◼
►
they have great support if you ever need it,
00:32:32
◼
►
and all of that is wrapped up
00:32:33
◼
►
in an incredible value proposition.
00:32:36
◼
►
That's what I love the most about them,
00:32:37
◼
►
that frankly, they are the best value in the business
00:32:41
◼
►
that I have found, and I've been with them
00:32:42
◼
►
for almost a decade now, and they've been the best value
00:32:45
◼
►
the entire time, because as technology gets better,
00:32:48
◼
►
they always stay competitive.
00:32:49
◼
►
They will give you more for your money,
00:32:50
◼
►
or they'll introduce even lower-cost plans.
00:32:53
◼
►
It's just great being a Linode customer.
00:32:55
◼
►
I run a lot of servers, all of my servers that I run
00:32:57
◼
►
are run on Linode, and I think I have something
00:32:59
◼
►
like 35 instances total so far,
00:33:02
◼
►
and it's just a wonderful web host.
00:33:04
◼
►
I strongly, strongly recommend,
00:33:06
◼
►
if you need to run a server somewhere, go to Linode.
00:33:08
◼
►
They will probably have what you need,
00:33:10
◼
►
and they'll do a really great job of it.
00:33:12
◼
►
So go to linode.com/atp, create a free account,
00:33:16
◼
►
and you get $100 in credit.
00:33:19
◼
►
Once again, linode.com/atp, make a free account today
00:33:23
◼
►
to get $100 in credit.
00:33:25
◼
►
Thank you so much to Linode for being an awesome host
00:33:28
◼
►
and for sponsoring our show.
00:33:29
◼
►
Do you have the XDR yet?
00:33:36
◼
►
I do have a new desk setup though, which we can talk about,
00:33:38
◼
►
and will talk about in just a few minutes.
00:33:40
◼
►
But no, I do not have an XDR yet.
00:33:43
◼
►
I have not purchased an XDR yet.
00:33:44
◼
►
My desk setup is ever-changing, but no, nothing yet.
00:33:47
◼
►
But we have to start with a little bit of housekeeping,
00:33:51
◼
►
I suppose, and one of you would like to talk
00:33:53
◼
►
about lithium batteries and smoke detectors.
00:33:56
◼
►
- Yeah, Andrew on Twitter pointed us
00:33:57
◼
►
to a Consumer Reports article,
00:33:59
◼
►
counteracting our advice from past shows that say
00:34:02
◼
►
you can use these really cheap lithium nine-volt batteries,
00:34:05
◼
►
really long-lasting nine-volt batteries
00:34:07
◼
►
in your smoke detectors,
00:34:08
◼
►
because they last much longer than alkalines,
00:34:11
◼
►
and you don't have to change them as often.
00:34:12
◼
►
Here's what Consumer Reports has to say.
00:34:14
◼
►
Lithium nine-volts aren't recommended for smoke detectors
00:34:16
◼
►
unless you follow a strict battery replacement schedule.
00:34:19
◼
►
Those batteries maintain a high voltage
00:34:21
◼
►
until the end of their usable life,
00:34:22
◼
►
so they provide a much shorter low battery warning
00:34:24
◼
►
to alert you that it's time to swap in a fresh one.
00:34:27
◼
►
Alkaline batteries, by comparison,
00:34:29
◼
►
have a more gradual voltage drop-off,
00:34:31
◼
►
prolonging the low battery alert
00:34:32
◼
►
and greatly increasing the odds
00:34:34
◼
►
that you'll be nearby to get the alert.
00:34:36
◼
►
So here's Consumer Reports doing a very bad job
00:34:38
◼
►
of what is their basic job, right?
00:34:40
◼
►
So this is their advice.
00:34:41
◼
►
Hey, just don't use lithium nine-volts, all right?
00:34:43
◼
►
And here's why, right?
00:34:45
◼
►
But there is no sort of quantifiable information.
00:34:49
◼
►
Okay, so you'll have less time to hear the beeping.
00:34:52
◼
►
The whole idea is that the smoke alarms beep
00:34:54
◼
►
when the voltage gets too low, right?
00:34:56
◼
►
So if you can graph the voltage of a battery over time,
00:34:58
◼
►
there's some threshold after which
00:34:59
◼
►
the smoke detector starts beeping,
00:35:01
◼
►
and you can imagine lots of differently shaped curves.
00:35:03
◼
►
The question is, like, how long,
00:35:06
◼
►
if you ignore an alkaline battery, you know,
00:35:08
◼
►
in your smoke detector and it starts beeping,
00:35:10
◼
►
how long would it beep?
00:35:12
◼
►
Say you're on vacation for a month.
00:35:14
◼
►
It starts beeping the second you walk out the door.
00:35:16
◼
►
When you come back a month from now, is it still beeping?
00:35:18
◼
►
How long does an alkaline battery beep
00:35:20
◼
►
in your smoke detector?
00:35:21
◼
►
A day, a week, a month, two months?
00:35:23
◼
►
We don't know.
00:35:24
◼
►
And also, how long does a lithium beep
00:35:27
◼
►
in your smoke detector?
00:35:28
◼
►
30 seconds, one minute?
00:35:30
◼
►
Does it beep once and never again?
00:35:32
◼
►
Or does it beep for one week instead of two?
00:35:35
◼
►
I can't make an informed decision about whether or not
00:35:37
◼
►
I should use lithium nine-volt batteries
00:35:38
◼
►
in my smoke detector without knowing
00:35:39
◼
►
how short is the low battery warning.
00:35:41
◼
►
Yes, you might be out of the house when it beeps,
00:35:43
◼
►
but I would like to know, does it beep for 30 seconds?
00:35:46
◼
►
Or does it beep for three days instead of two days?
00:35:48
◼
►
Or instead of two weeks or whatever?
00:35:51
◼
►
That's an important question.
00:35:52
◼
►
And they do touch on, okay,
00:35:53
◼
►
if you have a battery replacement schedule
00:35:55
◼
►
and you just put a reminder for every year,
00:35:57
◼
►
replace all the smoke detector batteries on,
00:36:00
◼
►
whenever we set the clocks back or whatever,
00:36:03
◼
►
you won't have a problem with this.
00:36:04
◼
►
But this advice, I wanted to put on the show
00:36:06
◼
►
because we did recommend the use of lithium nine-volts.
00:36:08
◼
►
We want you to know that apparently
00:36:09
◼
►
there is a potential problem,
00:36:11
◼
►
but I can't quantify that problem
00:36:13
◼
►
or know how seriously to take it.
00:36:15
◼
►
Because A, it's Consumer Reports
00:36:16
◼
►
and they have weird opinions on stuff.
00:36:17
◼
►
And B, they don't tell me how much shorter it's going to be.
00:36:20
◼
►
Because that is the most important fact
00:36:22
◼
►
in deciding whether this is important advice
00:36:24
◼
►
that I should definitely follow or advice that I can ignore.
00:36:27
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause there's an obvious trade-off.
00:36:29
◼
►
Like if a lithium battery lasts two or three times longer
00:36:35
◼
►
than an alkaline battery, if you're optimizing for time
00:36:39
◼
►
the smoke alarm is working,
00:36:41
◼
►
then that's a pretty big benefit.
00:36:43
◼
►
And then so you have to weigh that.
00:36:45
◼
►
Depending on how, as I was saying,
00:36:47
◼
►
we don't know how much shorter is the beeping window.
00:36:51
◼
►
There's no data here.
00:36:52
◼
►
So this sounds like the kind of thing that like,
00:36:55
◼
►
sometimes established people with established mindsets
00:37:01
◼
►
have a hard time adjusting to new things
00:37:03
◼
►
and try to immediately disregard or discredit
00:37:07
◼
►
some kind of new option as, ah, you can't do that.
00:37:09
◼
►
It's not safe.
00:37:10
◼
►
It's not the way we used to do it.
00:37:13
◼
►
And that kind of attitude often is the cause of myths
00:37:17
◼
►
and quote wisdom that is not true, spreading around.
00:37:21
◼
►
And this sounds a lot like that kind of thing to me.
00:37:25
◼
►
There is actual science that in the sense that
00:37:27
◼
►
lithium-based batteries do have higher
00:37:31
◼
►
nominal voltages than alkalines.
00:37:33
◼
►
I think, I think they're slightly above 1.5.
00:37:36
◼
►
And things that try to detect their battery level
00:37:39
◼
►
based on the assumptions of alkaline battery voltages
00:37:41
◼
►
will often not detect it correctly in either lithiums
00:37:44
◼
►
or going the other direction if you put in rechargeables.
00:37:47
◼
►
Like the rechargeable nickel metal hydride batteries
00:37:49
◼
►
that everybody uses in most things,
00:37:50
◼
►
like rechargeable double A's and everything,
00:37:52
◼
►
those have a lower nominal voltage than double A's.
00:37:54
◼
►
When you put those in something,
00:37:56
◼
►
I think those are 1.2 or 1.3 volts instead of 1.5.
00:37:59
◼
►
Off the top of my head, I could be wrong,
00:38:01
◼
►
but it's lower.
00:38:02
◼
►
And so when you put those in something,
00:38:05
◼
►
oftentimes it will think that you have a low battery
00:38:08
◼
►
even when you don't.
00:38:09
◼
►
And then those also have a different kind of curve
00:38:11
◼
►
of like when they fall off.
00:38:13
◼
►
Like alkaline batteries fall off kind of gradually.
00:38:16
◼
►
Nickel metal hydride I think has a little bit flatter
00:38:18
◼
►
of a curve and then lithium has a much flatter curve
00:38:20
◼
►
where lithium will stay at a high voltage level
00:38:22
◼
►
until pretty close to the end,
00:38:23
◼
►
which is the problem they're citing here.
00:38:25
◼
►
But anyway, this claim about a safety issue with lithiums
00:38:29
◼
►
I think needs more information to be backed up here.
00:38:32
◼
►
But if you're actually that concerned
00:38:33
◼
►
about your smoke alarm safety,
00:38:35
◼
►
you should get the ones that have the new
00:38:38
◼
►
like permanent built-in 10-year lithium batteries
00:38:42
◼
►
and then when they die, and they're designed for lithiums,
00:38:45
◼
►
so they probably have the correct voltage curve
00:38:48
◼
►
adjusted for in their beepiness,
00:38:50
◼
►
when they die, you replace the whole thing.
00:38:54
◼
►
Like that's the currently best recommended practice
00:38:57
◼
►
for smoke alarms in your house
00:38:58
◼
►
and that way you get all new sensors and everything
00:39:01
◼
►
in addition to a new battery when you get a new unit.
00:39:03
◼
►
So if you're really that concerned about safety, do that.
00:39:06
◼
►
And otherwise, if you're gonna replace your nine volts
00:39:08
◼
►
in your existing smoke alarms,
00:39:10
◼
►
I still think lithiums are fine.
00:39:12
◼
►
- And honestly, you should probably replace
00:39:14
◼
►
the whole smoke detector,
00:39:15
◼
►
especially if it's in like an area like near the kitchen
00:39:17
◼
►
where like greasy smoke and stuff can accumulate.
00:39:19
◼
►
After 10 years, even if the battery's not dead,
00:39:21
◼
►
it's probably a good idea to get a new one.
00:39:23
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Mack Weldon,
00:39:27
◼
►
my favorite and most worn brand of clothing.
00:39:30
◼
►
The holiday season is here
00:39:32
◼
►
and with it come the yearly questions,
00:39:33
◼
►
what do I wear to non-ugly sweater parties?
00:39:35
◼
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How do I maximize my time savoring holiday moments
00:39:38
◼
►
and minimize my time shopping for gifts?
00:39:40
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So fear not, Mack Weldon has your answers.
00:39:43
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00:39:45
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00:39:50
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00:39:52
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00:39:56
◼
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with pieces designed to work together for any occasion,
00:39:58
◼
►
saving you time and sparing you any extra holiday stress.
00:40:01
◼
►
Mack Weldon's stuff frankly is amazing.
00:40:04
◼
►
I have been wearing their stuff heavily for years.
00:40:07
◼
►
I wear their underwear every single day.
00:40:09
◼
►
I wear their t-shirts most days.
00:40:11
◼
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I have one of almost everything they make
00:40:13
◼
►
and I have way more than one of my favorite things.
00:40:16
◼
►
I have something like 20 pairs of underwear.
00:40:18
◼
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I have their socks, they make wonderful boot knit socks.
00:40:22
◼
►
For the winter they're really nice.
00:40:23
◼
►
Their warm knit long sleeve tees and other items
00:40:26
◼
►
are really, really nice for the winter.
00:40:28
◼
►
I always love their silver line.
00:40:30
◼
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I'm wearing one of their silver t-shirts right now.
00:40:33
◼
►
This morning when I was working out,
00:40:34
◼
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I was wearing their ace sweat pants,
00:40:36
◼
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which are, or their ace sweat shorts rather,
00:40:37
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'cause it was a very heavy workout today.
00:40:39
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►
And I was wearing another one of their shirts for workouts.
00:40:41
◼
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And it is just a fantastic system.
00:40:44
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I love Mack Weldon's stuff.
00:40:45
◼
►
It's all really great quality.
00:40:48
◼
►
It holds up over the years and it fits great
00:40:50
◼
►
from day one to year five.
00:40:52
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00:40:53
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So see for yourself at mackweldon.com/atppodcast.
00:41:00
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00:41:06
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00:41:09
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00:41:14
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Mack Weldon, get it right this holiday season.
00:41:17
◼
►
- All right, let's go to Casey's Corner.
00:41:22
◼
►
And I'm not talking about the restaurant
00:41:24
◼
►
at Walt Disney World.
00:41:25
◼
►
I have a whole bunch of hopefully quick follow up.
00:41:27
◼
►
- Wait, there's a restaurant at Disney
00:41:28
◼
►
called Casey's Corner?
00:41:30
◼
►
- There sure is.
00:41:31
◼
►
They serve hot dogs and other things of the like.
00:41:32
◼
►
It's delicious.
00:41:33
◼
►
- They serve like Velveeta?
00:41:35
◼
►
- Boar's Head American cheese, white American, yeah.
00:41:37
◼
►
- And now, you know.
00:41:38
◼
►
- That would be incredible.
00:41:40
◼
►
- Velveeta shells and cheese.
00:41:41
◼
►
- I actually have several pictures of me in front of it,
00:41:44
◼
►
which if I remember, which I won't,
00:41:45
◼
►
I will give you one for this chapter of the show notes,
00:41:48
◼
►
but I will surely forget.
00:41:49
◼
►
Nevertheless.
00:41:49
◼
►
- You inspired my wife to get Boar's Head
00:41:51
◼
►
white American cheese at the store the other week.
00:41:54
◼
►
- It's good.
00:41:55
◼
►
- I always liked it.
00:41:56
◼
►
I've liked it my whole life.
00:41:57
◼
►
It's good, I ate it.
00:41:58
◼
►
- Good, see, I'm telling you.
00:41:59
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm still a yellow American person,
00:42:01
◼
►
but otherwise, I admit the white American
00:42:04
◼
►
is very good as well.
00:42:05
◼
►
- There you go.
00:42:06
◼
►
See, now that is useful followup.
00:42:07
◼
►
That is what I like to hear.
00:42:08
◼
►
All right, so let's talk about--
00:42:10
◼
►
- Is this the only food and drink opinion
00:42:12
◼
►
that the three of us share?
00:42:14
◼
►
- That might be, actually.
00:42:16
◼
►
- We all find Boar's Head American cheese acceptable.
00:42:20
◼
►
- No, actually, really and truly,
00:42:22
◼
►
I think you might be onto something.
00:42:23
◼
►
This might be--
00:42:24
◼
►
- Do we all like water too?
00:42:25
◼
►
Not distilled, Mark Allen.
00:42:27
◼
►
- Yeah, too soon.
00:42:29
◼
►
- Two of you have a fraught relationship with water.
00:42:32
◼
►
- We do, me more so than Marco, but both of us now.
00:42:35
◼
►
All right, so hey, the LG Screen Manager app,
00:42:38
◼
►
which is this piece of garbage app
00:42:41
◼
►
that you can install on a Mac
00:42:43
◼
►
in order to update the firmware on your LG Ultrafine 5K,
00:42:47
◼
►
as we discussed a show or two ago,
00:42:49
◼
►
that only successfully worked on Intel Macs,
00:42:52
◼
►
and as of the last day or two,
00:42:54
◼
►
it now works on M1 Macs, which is great,
00:42:56
◼
►
and that was via Dave Stachowiak via Twitter,
00:43:00
◼
►
so we'll put that link into the show notes.
00:43:02
◼
►
If you have an LG 5K or presumably 4K,
00:43:04
◼
►
you can check that out if you have an M1 Mac.
00:43:07
◼
►
Now, let's talk about my LG.
00:43:09
◼
►
It is no longer in the house.
00:43:12
◼
►
- After nine days of pestering LG,
00:43:16
◼
►
I have finally gotten a RMA,
00:43:19
◼
►
and it is finally on its way back to LG.
00:43:21
◼
►
Thankfully, the repair center is super close.
00:43:24
◼
►
Let me see where it is.
00:43:25
◼
►
Oh, City of Industry, California.
00:43:27
◼
►
So now this thing is going to probably go on a truck
00:43:31
◼
►
all the way to California to probably sit for three weeks
00:43:33
◼
►
until someone's available to look at it,
00:43:35
◼
►
only to probably tell me that the thing is back ordered,
00:43:38
◼
►
and then eventually, in a month or two or seven,
00:43:41
◼
►
I might have my Ultrafine 5K back.
00:43:45
◼
►
- And it might even work then.
00:43:46
◼
►
- And it might even work then.
00:43:48
◼
►
So that'll be the test.
00:43:49
◼
►
What will be over first, my monitor drama or the pandemic?
00:43:52
◼
►
I'm probably gonna go in favor of the pandemic at this point
00:43:55
◼
►
and I realize how bold that is.
00:43:56
◼
►
Nevertheless--
00:43:57
◼
►
- You can end your monitor drama tomorrow.
00:43:59
◼
►
- Oh, stop, stop.
00:44:00
◼
►
Well, I sort of have, and we'll get there in a second.
00:44:02
◼
►
So just to show you how great LG's service is,
00:44:06
◼
►
I had an online chat with them on Monday the 6th,
00:44:09
◼
►
which actually was fairly easy and delightful.
00:44:11
◼
►
I didn't get a lot of flack about what I wanted.
00:44:13
◼
►
I didn't have to like, you know,
00:44:15
◼
►
assure them that I've plugged it in and blah, blah, blah.
00:44:18
◼
►
Like, it was pretty straightforward.
00:44:19
◼
►
- Did you take a video of your monitor now?
00:44:21
◼
►
- No, no, no, didn't have to take a video of my monitor.
00:44:22
◼
►
Nothing like that.
00:44:24
◼
►
But they said, hey, here's the deal,
00:44:25
◼
►
and I think I spoke about this last week.
00:44:27
◼
►
We need $150 from you in order to do the repair
00:44:31
◼
►
and we're not gonna collect that by an online chat.
00:44:33
◼
►
So in order to do the repair, they wanted 150 bucks upfront.
00:44:36
◼
►
I think I said this last week.
00:44:37
◼
►
- See, you're spending even more money on the LG now.
00:44:39
◼
►
- Correct, yes.
00:44:40
◼
►
- You might as well buy a boat.
00:44:41
◼
►
It's like just throwing more money.
00:44:43
◼
►
- You're not wrong.
00:44:45
◼
►
But no, I really, I have faith.
00:44:46
◼
►
I truly honestly have faith that sometime between now
00:44:49
◼
►
and when I'm dead, this thing will come back to me
00:44:52
◼
►
and work properly, but nevertheless.
00:44:54
◼
►
- I will agree that it will most likely come back to you.
00:44:57
◼
►
So I'm gonna be so furious.
00:44:59
◼
►
In fact, if I'm smart, I won't bring it up
00:45:01
◼
►
if it comes back and it's not working.
00:45:02
◼
►
Please, future Casey, don't say anything to Marco.
00:45:04
◼
►
- Now listen, I'm telling you,
00:45:06
◼
►
the LG 5K is like the butterfly keyboard.
00:45:09
◼
►
They can maybe repair it and send it back to you,
00:45:12
◼
►
but it's not gonna be flawless in a reliable way
00:45:15
◼
►
for an indefinite amount of time.
00:45:17
◼
►
Like there's a high chance that something about it
00:45:20
◼
►
will flake out again.
00:45:22
◼
►
- We'll see, hopefully not.
00:45:23
◼
►
But nevertheless, so very quickly,
00:45:24
◼
►
on Monday the 6th, I have an online chat.
00:45:26
◼
►
They say, okay, we're gonna call you in two to three days
00:45:27
◼
►
so we can take your money.
00:45:28
◼
►
I say, great.
00:45:29
◼
►
On Friday the 10th, they haven't called yet,
00:45:31
◼
►
so I had another online chat.
00:45:32
◼
►
Oh yes, yes, yes, we will absolutely call you
00:45:34
◼
►
as soon as possible to take your money.
00:45:37
◼
►
On Tuesday the 14th, I said, guys, please,
00:45:39
◼
►
can we please call me and take my money?
00:45:42
◼
►
All I want in the world is for you to take my money.
00:45:44
◼
►
- Please end this.
00:45:45
◼
►
- Please and thank you.
00:45:46
◼
►
- Can we all buy you an XDR so we can stop talking about it?
00:45:49
◼
►
- Yes, yes, if you wanna buy me an XDR,
00:45:51
◼
►
I will gladly accept it.
00:45:52
◼
►
I am not buying that.
00:45:53
◼
►
- I am not volunteering for this.
00:45:56
◼
►
- If Marco would like to volunteer his tribute, so be it.
00:45:58
◼
►
So anyway, so on the 14th, I get on the online chat again.
00:46:02
◼
►
(jazzy music)
00:46:04
◼
►
So finally, I speak to the last person
00:46:06
◼
►
that I end up speaking to,
00:46:08
◼
►
and that individual who's very kind,
00:46:10
◼
►
said in so many words, I'm the person that's in charge
00:46:14
◼
►
of scheduling refrigerator and TV repairs.
00:46:19
◼
►
There is no chance I'm going to be taking $150
00:46:22
◼
►
of your money over the phone
00:46:23
◼
►
in order to get a monitor repaired.
00:46:25
◼
►
I don't even know why they sent me to you,
00:46:27
◼
►
or sent you to me, but anyways.
00:46:29
◼
►
So I was like, okay.
00:46:31
◼
►
- Why, why are you putting yourself through this?
00:46:34
◼
►
- Because now I have to see it through.
00:46:36
◼
►
I'm not a goddamn quitter, Marco.
00:46:37
◼
►
- Quit this monitor, you have to quit this monitor.
00:46:40
◼
►
This is sunk cost fallacy, come on,
00:46:43
◼
►
just get out of the situation.
00:46:45
◼
►
- No, no, it's gonna be okay.
00:46:46
◼
►
- Run from this monitor, it's not worth it.
00:46:48
◼
►
It's so not worth it.
00:46:50
◼
►
- So, but it was so nice when it was worth it.
00:46:52
◼
►
- Isn't your time worth anything?
00:46:54
◼
►
- Well, apparently not.
00:46:56
◼
►
So eventually I do get a call back
00:46:57
◼
►
from a very delightful lady who said,
00:46:59
◼
►
"I will take $150 of your money, please."
00:47:01
◼
►
I said, "Yes, absolutely."
00:47:03
◼
►
And so she immediately sent me a shipping label,
00:47:05
◼
►
and I dropped the LG 5K off at FedEx this morning
00:47:09
◼
►
to go to City of Industry to hopefully get repaired.
00:47:12
◼
►
So she said, "In a best case scenario,
00:47:16
◼
►
"it's probably gonna be like a week to get there,
00:47:18
◼
►
"a week or so getting repaired and a week back."
00:47:20
◼
►
Which, I didn't even look to the calendar,
00:47:22
◼
►
but that's like what, the first half of January?
00:47:25
◼
►
I will bet that there is a 50/50 shot
00:47:27
◼
►
I see this thing before Valentine's Day,
00:47:29
◼
►
and even that I'm not particularly confident in, obviously.
00:47:31
◼
►
So we'll see what happens.
00:47:33
◼
►
- So just for the record, I know the XDR is expensive.
00:47:38
◼
►
I know, I've said it.
00:47:40
◼
►
No, it looks back at expensive and says,
00:47:42
◼
►
"Huh, remember how cheap expensive was?
00:47:44
◼
►
"I'm ludicrous."
00:47:45
◼
►
- Fair enough, however, LG's service is awful.
00:47:50
◼
►
It has always been awful.
00:47:52
◼
►
And one of the things you get
00:47:54
◼
►
when you buy something nice from Apple
00:47:56
◼
►
is most of the time, and they're not perfect all the time,
00:47:59
◼
►
but most of the time, a way better service experience
00:48:03
◼
►
if you need it.
00:48:04
◼
►
This is ridiculous.
00:48:06
◼
►
Like, the hoops that you're jumping through
00:48:08
◼
►
to try to get what is, in absolute terms,
00:48:13
◼
►
still a pretty premium priced monitor
00:48:16
◼
►
to get warranty serviced.
00:48:17
◼
►
- Oh no, it's out of warranty, which is part of the problem.
00:48:19
◼
►
But go ahead.
00:48:20
◼
►
- Well, to get serviced by its manufacturer.
00:48:22
◼
►
- Yep, yep, yep.
00:48:22
◼
►
- That's still a ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through
00:48:26
◼
►
and a huge amount of time to be without it.
00:48:28
◼
►
People buy tools for their work,
00:48:30
◼
►
and they need them to work.
00:48:32
◼
►
And this is one of the things,
00:48:33
◼
►
when I was younger and didn't have money,
00:48:38
◼
►
I thought I was a hotshot who knew everything,
00:48:42
◼
►
and everything I didn't understand was stupid.
00:48:43
◼
►
- Wait, you thought that?
00:48:45
◼
►
That that stopped?
00:48:46
◼
►
- That's called being smart and 20.
00:48:50
◼
►
That's what that feeling is.
00:48:52
◼
►
And so, I would look at things like enterprise-grade servers
00:48:57
◼
►
and stuff like that, and I'd be like,
00:48:59
◼
►
"My God, those computers are so expensive.
00:49:01
◼
►
"What idiot would pay that premium price
00:49:04
◼
►
"for that Dell workstation when I could build
00:49:08
◼
►
"a very similar or identically performing computer
00:49:11
◼
►
"for less money?"
00:49:12
◼
►
And so I did.
00:49:14
◼
►
And God, I spent and wasted so much time building
00:49:19
◼
►
and then repairing and fixing and trying to get to work
00:49:22
◼
►
custom-built computers for me and my friends,
00:49:24
◼
►
like throughout all of high school and college.
00:49:26
◼
►
So many hours down the drain.
00:49:29
◼
►
But we didn't have much money,
00:49:30
◼
►
and so that trade-off made sense.
00:49:32
◼
►
But I never understood why people would buy
00:49:34
◼
►
the expensive things.
00:49:35
◼
►
Now that I'm a business and an adult, it makes sense.
00:49:40
◼
►
If I'm using this thing as a tool for all of my income,
00:49:45
◼
►
I can spend a little bit more,
00:49:47
◼
►
this is where the phrase,
00:49:48
◼
►
throw money at the problem to make it go away.
00:49:51
◼
►
If I can throw money at this problem
00:49:52
◼
►
and make it totally go away, that is often worth doing,
00:49:56
◼
►
because these problems are not worth
00:49:58
◼
►
the massive amount of time and hassle and potential risk
00:50:04
◼
►
of this thing might just die one day
00:50:06
◼
►
when you really need it to be working.
00:50:08
◼
►
If you're working on something really important,
00:50:10
◼
►
this thing might just die and you're just screwed.
00:50:12
◼
►
And if when something does die,
00:50:14
◼
►
it takes you a week of effort to even get them
00:50:18
◼
►
to start the repair,
00:50:19
◼
►
and then you might see it back again in a month,
00:50:22
◼
►
that is not suitable for professional use.
00:50:26
◼
►
Simple as that.
00:50:27
◼
►
And that's why professionals in professional environments,
00:50:30
◼
►
when they can afford it,
00:50:31
◼
►
get nicer gear that has better support,
00:50:35
◼
►
better reliability and better service when you need it.
00:50:38
◼
►
And in this case, you're just making the case for the XDR
00:50:41
◼
►
over and over again, every single week.
00:50:43
◼
►
- He's making the case against the LG 5K,
00:50:46
◼
►
not necessarily for a $6,000 monitor
00:50:50
◼
►
that's been surpassed by the laptop monitors.
00:50:53
◼
►
- It pained me so much to order
00:50:55
◼
►
this goddamn expensive monitor, it really did.
00:50:58
◼
►
But my monitor problem has been totally gone since then.
00:51:03
◼
►
Zero issues, I'm totally happy with it.
00:51:06
◼
►
Regardless of what Jon says,
00:51:08
◼
►
and we'll talk about the rumors in a second,
00:51:10
◼
►
I am not at all feeling FOMO about like,
00:51:13
◼
►
oh God, what if I'm gonna miss the new thing?
00:51:14
◼
►
- No, we bought ours at the right time.
00:51:17
◼
►
We bought them when their price
00:51:20
◼
►
made the most possible sense.
00:51:22
◼
►
- Well, it never made that much sense,
00:51:23
◼
►
but you bought yours at the best time when it was brand new.
00:51:27
◼
►
- Yeah, if you look at the slope of how much sense
00:51:29
◼
►
does this monitor make at this price,
00:51:30
◼
►
it's going down real fast now.
00:51:33
◼
►
- Maybe, I wouldn't say fast, but anyway.
00:51:35
◼
►
So the point is, one of the reasons it's so expensive,
00:51:37
◼
►
yeah, it is a ridiculous price and it is a ridiculous thing,
00:51:40
◼
►
but you do get a lot for that.
00:51:42
◼
►
Whether it's worth it to you or not,
00:51:44
◼
►
that's up to you and everyone else.
00:51:45
◼
►
But for me, if my LG monitor
00:51:49
◼
►
that I was depending on every day,
00:51:51
◼
►
if it died one day, I wouldn't even bother contacting them.
00:51:54
◼
►
'Cause I've dealt with LG warranty support in the past.
00:51:57
◼
►
It's always been terrible.
00:51:58
◼
►
As far as I'm concerned, if the LG monitor dies,
00:52:00
◼
►
I would just put it in a closet, forget about it forever,
00:52:02
◼
►
and just get it, I would overnight myself a replacement
00:52:04
◼
►
and keep working.
00:52:06
◼
►
- Well, I understand what you're saying.
00:52:07
◼
►
And that's the other thing, actually,
00:52:08
◼
►
is even if I wanted a brand new LG,
00:52:10
◼
►
they're back ordered for like a month or two.
00:52:13
◼
►
Because there's no other options.
00:52:16
◼
►
- Oh, there's one. - Nevertheless.
00:52:17
◼
►
Well, there's one.
00:52:18
◼
►
So I have settled on a new desk setup,
00:52:21
◼
►
which will hopefully persist until and when
00:52:26
◼
►
and if I ever get that 5K back.
00:52:28
◼
►
And so I have the 24 inch 4K, not ultra fine LG monitor
00:52:33
◼
►
that I was using literally four years ago,
00:52:36
◼
►
or no, three years ago at work,
00:52:38
◼
►
that I had borrowed from my good friend at my old job.
00:52:41
◼
►
And then I don't know if I mentioned it on the air or not,
00:52:43
◼
►
but I actually ordered one of those as well
00:52:46
◼
►
before I even spoke to the friend,
00:52:47
◼
►
because I figured, oh, there's no way
00:52:48
◼
►
he's just gonna let me buy
00:52:50
◼
►
or much less borrow one of these monitors.
00:52:53
◼
►
So I'm just gonna order one and I'll use,
00:52:54
◼
►
one of these 24 inch 4Ks and the onboard laptop screen.
00:52:58
◼
►
- Speaking of orders, didn't you order a new LG 5K?
00:53:01
◼
►
And you're like, oh, I don't think
00:53:02
◼
►
I'm gonna cancel that order yet.
00:53:03
◼
►
That's the last we heard of it.
00:53:04
◼
►
Did you cancel that order?
00:53:05
◼
►
- I did cancel it.
00:53:06
◼
►
I think around the time that the LG, the one that I had--
00:53:09
◼
►
- Do you regret canceling it now?
00:53:11
◼
►
- A little bit, yes, but that's neither here nor there.
00:53:14
◼
►
So anyway, so I have--
00:53:16
◼
►
- You know what's better than one mediocre finicky monitor?
00:53:19
◼
►
Two of them.
00:53:19
◼
►
- So it would be a brand new one
00:53:21
◼
►
that maybe would be less finicky, but he goes,
00:53:23
◼
►
who knows why?
00:53:24
◼
►
And by the way, you're talking about it.
00:53:24
◼
►
Here's my new desk setup.
00:53:25
◼
►
Again, I would petition for a photo
00:53:28
◼
►
to be shoved into the Slack so at least we can see it.
00:53:31
◼
►
And so I can also point at all the liquids
00:53:33
◼
►
that are threatening your setup.
00:53:36
◼
►
- All right, you know what?
00:53:37
◼
►
I will do it right now.
00:53:38
◼
►
So now you're gonna have to vamp
00:53:40
◼
►
because I will do it right now
00:53:41
◼
►
and I will not touch the water.
00:53:43
◼
►
I will show you exactly where my situation is.
00:53:44
◼
►
So hold on, you two vamp for a second.
00:53:45
◼
►
- All right, got it, yep, yep, plenty of time.
00:53:46
◼
►
Marco will edit this out and then we can,
00:53:48
◼
►
while you do that, we can discuss which part
00:53:50
◼
►
of Marco's adult businessman brain decided
00:53:53
◼
►
I'm gonna store a jug of water next to the computers
00:53:55
◼
►
in my closet.
00:53:56
◼
►
- In my defense, those were stored there
00:53:58
◼
►
at very different times.
00:53:59
◼
►
- When you're an important businessman,
00:54:01
◼
►
you realize don't do risky things
00:54:03
◼
►
like make your own computer, it could cause problems.
00:54:05
◼
►
I have a jug of water, what should I do with it?
00:54:08
◼
►
How about up high in the electronics closet?
00:54:12
◼
►
You need some adult supervision over there.
00:54:14
◼
►
I don't know what you're doing in that office.
00:54:15
◼
►
You're probably on wifi right now.
00:54:17
◼
►
- I did this with the wide angle lens,
00:54:21
◼
►
so it's probably not the crispest or brightest,
00:54:23
◼
►
but it should be going through.
00:54:24
◼
►
- I forgot you sit in darkness.
00:54:26
◼
►
- No, actually the overhead light is on.
00:54:28
◼
►
- It's a great thing with your glass desk
00:54:30
◼
►
that we can see the cable mess right through it.
00:54:32
◼
►
Like every time you look at the desk,
00:54:33
◼
►
you're like, oh, there's my bad cable management.
00:54:35
◼
►
Yep, still there.
00:54:36
◼
►
- It's an absolute disaster, I'll be the first to tell you.
00:54:38
◼
►
But so yeah, so what I have now--
00:54:40
◼
►
- Wait, hold on, okay.
00:54:41
◼
►
- And he does have a water, what are you doing?
00:54:43
◼
►
- You have its way over to the side.
00:54:46
◼
►
- So it was mine.
00:54:47
◼
►
- Mine was in the corner.
00:54:47
◼
►
- It was in the corner, nothing.
00:54:49
◼
►
- All right, so--
00:54:50
◼
►
- You have an on air sign, but it's off
00:54:52
◼
►
and we're on the air.
00:54:53
◼
►
- If that spills, like the USB pre-2 is right there,
00:54:56
◼
►
which is like a $700 box that does not like water.
00:54:58
◼
►
The keyboard is there, whatever,
00:54:59
◼
►
but you already said there's like 100 and something, right?
00:55:01
◼
►
The laptop is up on a little stand,
00:55:03
◼
►
but it's learned its lesson.
00:55:05
◼
►
It's afraid of the word.
00:55:06
◼
►
- It's on an IMAX stand, isn't that an IMAX stand?
00:55:07
◼
►
- Yes it is, it is actually.
00:55:08
◼
►
- At least it's on something.
00:55:10
◼
►
It's like someone scared of a mouse in a kitchen
00:55:12
◼
►
going up on a stool, that's what I think.
00:55:14
◼
►
- But it's hanging over the side by like four inches.
00:55:17
◼
►
- Yes, well, all right, nobody's perfect.
00:55:18
◼
►
So here's the thing, so what I've got,
00:55:20
◼
►
I do have my glass desk, which eventually I will replace,
00:55:23
◼
►
but have we mentioned I'm cheap?
00:55:24
◼
►
So directly in front of me--
00:55:25
◼
►
- Wait, where is the iPad that this Apple Pencil belongs to?
00:55:27
◼
►
It's nowhere.
00:55:29
◼
►
- Charging behind me.
00:55:30
◼
►
I think one of the kids removed the pencil
00:55:32
◼
►
and dropped it on my desk
00:55:33
◼
►
and I haven't had a chance to put it back on the iPad.
00:55:35
◼
►
All right, so let me describe this picture that I took
00:55:37
◼
►
that you will probably not see
00:55:38
◼
►
because my whole situation is a mess,
00:55:40
◼
►
but I'll describe it to you.
00:55:42
◼
►
So I have my glass desk centered directly in front of me
00:55:45
◼
►
is one of these LG 24-inch 4K monitors.
00:55:48
◼
►
This is the one that I actually bought
00:55:50
◼
►
and I told myself I was going to return.
00:55:51
◼
►
Like I'd never opened it for a week and a half
00:55:53
◼
►
or something like that.
00:55:54
◼
►
And I said, you know, I'll just return it
00:55:56
◼
►
because I'll just live off of the borrowed monitor
00:55:59
◼
►
until the LG comes in.
00:56:01
◼
►
This thing was like 300 bucks,
00:56:03
◼
►
which is not a small amounts of money,
00:56:05
◼
►
but it's really not that much money
00:56:07
◼
►
in the grand scheme of things.
00:56:08
◼
►
- And it's 27 inches at 4K?
00:56:09
◼
►
- 24 inches at 4K, which strictly speaking isn't retina,
00:56:13
◼
►
if you look at the number, like the PPI numbers,
00:56:16
◼
►
but for my crap eyes, it is absolutely retina,
00:56:19
◼
►
without question.
00:56:19
◼
►
- I would say that is like the upper edge.
00:56:22
◼
►
Because back in the olden days,
00:56:25
◼
►
24-inch monitors when they first came out
00:56:28
◼
►
were 1920 by 1200.
00:56:32
◼
►
And 4K is roughly, depending on some details,
00:56:36
◼
►
but roughly double that.
00:56:37
◼
►
It's the roughly retina version of that.
00:56:39
◼
►
So later on, towards the tail end of 1X monitors
00:56:42
◼
►
being normal in Mac land, they did get more dense
00:56:45
◼
►
and that 1920 across resolution shrunk down
00:56:48
◼
►
to like 21 and a half inches for the iMac,
00:56:51
◼
►
in the same way that like the 2560 across
00:56:54
◼
►
was first in the 30-inch Apple monitor,
00:56:57
◼
►
and then later on was put in 27s.
00:56:59
◼
►
So I would say, going quote back to the 1920 point
00:57:04
◼
►
across monitor at 24 inches,
00:57:09
◼
►
while it is not today's version of retina,
00:57:12
◼
►
it is like close enough.
00:57:14
◼
►
It's within the realm of what we expect as Mac users.
00:57:17
◼
►
- Absolutely, so that's centered in front of me.
00:57:18
◼
►
And then to my right, at like a 45-degree angle,
00:57:21
◼
►
is the borrowed equivalent.
00:57:23
◼
►
It's the exact same monitor, just the borrowed version.
00:57:26
◼
►
And that's off to the right.
00:57:27
◼
►
And then to my left, on a riser that was designed
00:57:30
◼
►
for the base of the iMac, and is obviously,
00:57:33
◼
►
and thus a little too small for the MacBook Pro,
00:57:35
◼
►
but nonetheless, here it is.
00:57:36
◼
►
On the riser is my MacBook Pro in clamshell at the moment.
00:57:39
◼
►
And so I've got two identical 4K monitors
00:57:43
◼
►
basically directly in front of me.
00:57:45
◼
►
For the record, my water is all the way to the right,
00:57:47
◼
►
as far away from my hand as it can possibly be.
00:57:51
◼
►
- You know what water can do across a flat surface,
00:57:53
◼
►
especially one made of glass?
00:57:54
◼
►
It can travel, 'cause it's all the same level.
00:57:56
◼
►
- But it's an Aquafina bottle that's been recycled
00:58:00
◼
►
in the sense that it doesn't have Aquafina water in it,
00:58:02
◼
►
it has tap water in it now, but it has a lid on it.
00:58:04
◼
►
And the lid always stays on it,
00:58:06
◼
►
unless I'm actively drinking.
00:58:06
◼
►
So I'm doing the best I can here, fellas.
00:58:09
◼
►
- But I wonder if maybe the solution
00:58:11
◼
►
to Jon's water anxiety is sloped desks.
00:58:15
◼
►
- That's gonna cause more problems.
00:58:17
◼
►
- Or what if you use an air hockey table as a desk?
00:58:19
◼
►
- Now you got stuff sliding out.
00:58:20
◼
►
It's not that difficult.
00:58:21
◼
►
- No, but you have all the holes, all the drain holes.
00:58:23
◼
►
- You just need a surface around that same place
00:58:26
◼
►
that is like three inches lower.
00:58:28
◼
►
- My next desk is gonna be an air hockey table.
00:58:30
◼
►
- By the way, your laptop being on the iMac stand,
00:58:34
◼
►
none of the feet of that laptop
00:58:36
◼
►
are in contact with the stand, right?
00:58:39
◼
►
- So it's just metal on metal.
00:58:41
◼
►
- No, there's a little, no, no, no, no, no.
00:58:42
◼
►
The stand has like a little pad on it.
00:58:44
◼
►
There's some metal on metal,
00:58:45
◼
►
but the stand does have a little pad on the top.
00:58:47
◼
►
You can get you like a tray table.
00:58:48
◼
►
You have tray tables in your house,
00:58:49
◼
►
just put a tray table next to your computer.
00:58:52
◼
►
- All right, I'll get right on that.
00:58:52
◼
►
- Then you can put like a whole meal on that tray table
00:58:54
◼
►
and when it spills, it just goes to the floor
00:58:56
◼
►
and nothing on your desk gets any of the liquid.
00:58:58
◼
►
- Well, you can't really see in this picture
00:59:00
◼
►
'cause it's terrible, but there's a filing cabinet
00:59:01
◼
►
directly to the left of the--
00:59:02
◼
►
- Yeah, just roll that out a little.
00:59:04
◼
►
- Yeah, well, I could, but I always put junk on there.
00:59:07
◼
►
That's like my landing area.
00:59:08
◼
►
As you can tell in this picture,
00:59:09
◼
►
it's my landing area for the office.
00:59:10
◼
►
Nevertheless--
00:59:11
◼
►
- I get some lights in this room next time.
00:59:14
◼
►
- So anyway, I bring all this up to say,
00:59:16
◼
►
right now, my setup is two of these identical,
00:59:19
◼
►
I'll put the model number in the show notes.
00:59:21
◼
►
I forget what it is offhand,
00:59:21
◼
►
but two of these identical 4K monitors.
00:59:23
◼
►
Each of them is $300 on Amazon,
00:59:25
◼
►
which again is not cheap, but given what you're getting,
00:59:27
◼
►
is actually really not that bad.
00:59:29
◼
►
The monitors are not great.
00:59:31
◼
►
They are fine.
00:59:33
◼
►
They're too low on this desk.
00:59:34
◼
►
I'll be the first to tell you they're too low.
00:59:35
◼
►
I was thinking about that earlier today.
00:59:36
◼
►
I need to figure out a way to raise them up
00:59:38
◼
►
because in typical LG fashion, the stand sucks,
00:59:41
◼
►
but it's fine.
00:59:42
◼
►
And the thing is, and the reason I bring all this up
00:59:45
◼
►
is because to my eyes and to my wallet,
00:59:48
◼
►
600, like even if I bought both of these,
00:59:50
◼
►
$600 for two 4K monitors, it is not what I would prefer,
00:59:55
◼
►
but it is absolutely not 10 times worse
00:59:59
◼
►
than the 10 times more expensive Pro Display XDR.
01:00:03
◼
►
Like I just can't get, I don't think I would get 10X the,
01:00:07
◼
►
I can't think of the word I'm looking for,
01:00:09
◼
►
Joy, the return out of a $6,000 Pro Display XDR
01:00:14
◼
►
that I am off of this not perfect,
01:00:17
◼
►
but ultimately pretty serviceable $600 setup.
01:00:20
◼
►
And that's why I keep digging my heels
01:00:22
◼
►
because it just, I can't justify 10X what I've got right now.
01:00:25
◼
►
I just can't.
01:00:26
◼
►
Now, if somebody else wants to literally buy me one,
01:00:28
◼
►
I will absolutely accept your Pro Display XDR.
01:00:31
◼
►
But I, and if it was like a couple thousand dollars,
01:00:34
◼
►
I probably would, but at four or five or $6,000,
01:00:38
◼
►
I just can't bring myself to do it.
01:00:39
◼
►
And I actually don't disagree with you, Marco.
01:00:42
◼
►
I really truly don't.
01:00:42
◼
►
Like everything you said, logically,
01:00:45
◼
►
I 1,000% agree with you.
01:00:47
◼
►
I just cannot bring myself to open my wallet for $6,000.
01:00:51
◼
►
I just can't do it.
01:00:52
◼
►
So that is my new desk setup.
01:00:54
◼
►
And related to that, one of the things I've noticed
01:00:57
◼
►
is that now I'm running out of ports on this computer,
01:01:00
◼
►
which I actually have a dock coming from someone
01:01:03
◼
►
coming my way in the next few days.
01:01:05
◼
►
But with that said, I currently have plugged in
01:01:08
◼
►
one of the monitors via HDMI,
01:01:11
◼
►
one via USB-C to DisplayPort.
01:01:13
◼
►
I have the MixPre 3.
01:01:15
◼
►
I have a Ethernet adapter and I have MagSafe.
01:01:18
◼
►
So I am using every one of the ports
01:01:21
◼
►
on this computer right now,
01:01:23
◼
►
which I'm glad that this computer
01:01:24
◼
►
has as many ports as it does.
01:01:26
◼
►
And that brings me to a tip.
01:01:27
◼
►
I forget who it was that wrote in,
01:01:29
◼
►
but I had read a few nights ago,
01:01:30
◼
►
and then somebody wrote in the next morning,
01:01:33
◼
►
that you can actually do 60 hertz via HDMI,
01:01:37
◼
►
which I previously erroneously said
01:01:39
◼
►
was not possible on these monitors.
01:01:42
◼
►
The thing is you have to engage HDMI Ultra HD Deep Color,
01:01:46
◼
►
because when I think of refresh rate, I think Deep Color.
01:01:49
◼
►
- Does that screw with their color reproduction?
01:01:51
◼
►
'Cause a lot of displays--
01:01:52
◼
►
- You think I notice?
01:01:53
◼
►
- Yeah, well, televisions and some displays
01:01:56
◼
►
have a mode in which they can accept your signal and say,
01:02:00
◼
►
but actually, the color gamut of the monitor
01:02:03
◼
►
is wider in some areas than the color gamut
01:02:05
◼
►
of whatever this thing is supposed to be displayed.
01:02:07
◼
►
It's more important for TVs,
01:02:08
◼
►
'cause TVs, things are mastered in a certain color space.
01:02:11
◼
►
And for accurate reproduction,
01:02:12
◼
►
that color space should be shown on the TV
01:02:15
◼
►
within the color space that the thing is mastered at.
01:02:17
◼
►
But the TV is like,
01:02:18
◼
►
but actually I've got more colors in that.
01:02:20
◼
►
Don't you want me to just take that image
01:02:21
◼
►
and expand it to fill the whole color space?
01:02:23
◼
►
And it makes everything look all candy colored
01:02:26
◼
►
when it shouldn't be.
01:02:27
◼
►
And the only reason that's relevant to your computer is,
01:02:30
◼
►
if you're looking at pictures
01:02:31
◼
►
and you're trying to adjust them
01:02:32
◼
►
and everything looks all candy colored,
01:02:34
◼
►
and you're like, oh, I gotta try to dim it down.
01:02:36
◼
►
But then you look at it on an actual device
01:02:38
◼
►
that shows it within whatever color space that photo,
01:02:41
◼
►
like an sRGB or Adobe, whatever RGB,
01:02:45
◼
►
if you see it accurate,
01:02:46
◼
►
you just realize you've changed your picture
01:02:48
◼
►
in a way that you don't like.
01:02:49
◼
►
So it's not that you care super duper professional,
01:02:52
◼
►
but if you're ever doing anything with photos on it,
01:02:54
◼
►
you want what you see on the screen to reflect the reality
01:02:57
◼
►
and not to be some ultra HD deep color thing
01:03:02
◼
►
where the monitor is disregarding the color space
01:03:04
◼
►
or expanding the color space for you.
01:03:06
◼
►
- Yeah, I can't say I've noticed one way or the other,
01:03:09
◼
►
but again, I do have a discerning eye about some things
01:03:13
◼
►
and clearly a discerning ear,
01:03:14
◼
►
because I can tell you all about how great vinyl is.
01:03:18
◼
►
But this is not one of those things.
01:03:19
◼
►
And so if you happen to have one of these monitors,
01:03:21
◼
►
for what it's worth,
01:03:22
◼
►
you can do picture, picture adjust, HDMI ultra deep color.
01:03:25
◼
►
And if you do that,
01:03:26
◼
►
you can use an HDMI cable and do 60 Hertz at 4K.
01:03:30
◼
►
I will say not about color, but I could swear,
01:03:32
◼
►
like something about the anti-aliasing is different.
01:03:35
◼
►
I couldn't tell you what, and this is again.
01:03:38
◼
►
- You're running at a native resolution,
01:03:40
◼
►
so there wouldn't be any.
01:03:43
◼
►
Something felt different to me,
01:03:45
◼
►
but I can't put my finger on it.
01:03:46
◼
►
I'm probably bananas.
01:03:47
◼
►
- Is the sub pixel arrangement different on these monitors?
01:03:50
◼
►
- I mean, possibly, but I wouldn't know,
01:03:52
◼
►
because what I was doing was I was switching
01:03:54
◼
►
between DisplayPort and HDMI in the same actual monitor.
01:03:57
◼
►
And I felt like it looked different,
01:03:58
◼
►
but there was enough delay
01:03:59
◼
►
between the switching of the two that.
01:04:01
◼
►
- I think the signaling,
01:04:04
◼
►
someone just wrote in about this,
01:04:05
◼
►
they were saying how you were complaining
01:04:07
◼
►
that using DisplayPort
01:04:08
◼
►
and it made you feel like it was a gross and ancient,
01:04:10
◼
►
but I think what you meant is you were using
01:04:11
◼
►
an older DisplayPort connector and that felt old,
01:04:13
◼
►
but the DisplayPort protocol is more modern
01:04:16
◼
►
and more computer focused than HDMI for,
01:04:20
◼
►
can you find that email so I don't just make this up?
01:04:21
◼
►
It's talking about HDMI, mixing chroma and luminance
01:04:24
◼
►
in the thing would DisplayPort has them
01:04:26
◼
►
more cleanly separated, I don't know.
01:04:28
◼
►
Anyway, that could explain the difference
01:04:30
◼
►
in that you're getting worse picture quality
01:04:32
◼
►
because of some HDMI thing.
01:04:34
◼
►
- Yeah, and I mean, it's certainly within the realm
01:04:36
◼
►
of acceptable, it's not bad
01:04:38
◼
►
by any stretch of the imagination,
01:04:40
◼
►
but I felt like I was noticing something,
01:04:44
◼
►
although I couldn't really put my finger on
01:04:45
◼
►
exactly what it was.
01:04:47
◼
►
And nevertheless, this is workable,
01:04:49
◼
►
this is what I think I'm gonna stick with
01:04:51
◼
►
at least until the 5K comes back
01:04:53
◼
►
or until somebody literally donates a fixed DR to me,
01:04:57
◼
►
which I'm not actually advocating for the love
01:04:59
◼
►
of all that is good and holy.
01:05:00
◼
►
I can afford one if I really wanted to,
01:05:02
◼
►
I just really, really, really don't want to.
01:05:05
◼
►
And for the record, this is an LG 24UD58-B,
01:05:09
◼
►
24 inch 4K UHD IPS monitor with FreeSync, black,
01:05:13
◼
►
as per Amazon.
01:05:15
◼
►
So, and there's only 16 left in stock, so go fast.
01:05:19
◼
►
But anyways, so that's what I'm doing.
01:05:21
◼
►
And also one other quick bit of follow up.
01:05:25
◼
►
I'd been complaining a little while ago
01:05:27
◼
►
about my Magic Mouse, my brand new Magic Mouse
01:05:29
◼
►
feeling weird with my brand new M1 Macs MacBook Pro.
01:05:34
◼
►
And it felt like, I think I said a week or two ago,
01:05:36
◼
►
it felt like almost as though the Bluetooth connection
01:05:40
◼
►
was sleeping too soon, I have no evidence
01:05:42
◼
►
to prove my theory, but it felt like it was going
01:05:46
◼
►
into some sort of like low power mode too quickly.
01:05:48
◼
►
And Monterey 12.1 has come out since I last spoke about it.
01:05:51
◼
►
And I think it has made it mostly better.
01:05:54
◼
►
There's also been, I forget who pointed this out to me,
01:05:56
◼
►
but somebody pointed out a tweet from Charity Majors
01:05:59
◼
►
who has a default's right that you can try
01:06:02
◼
►
that apparently disables mouse acceleration.
01:06:05
◼
►
I have not tried this yet because I think it's workable
01:06:09
◼
►
for me now that I don't have to plug in the mouse
01:06:11
◼
►
to make it feel like it's okay.
01:06:12
◼
►
But it is something that I might try
01:06:15
◼
►
if I feel like it gets worse.
01:06:16
◼
►
So we'll put a link to that in the show notes.
01:06:18
◼
►
- I found the tweet, it doesn't have much more detail,
01:06:20
◼
►
but Andreas Hartl says about you talking about
01:06:23
◼
►
DisplayPort versus HDMI, he says,
01:06:25
◼
►
"HDMI is based on DVI and mushes together all data
01:06:28
◼
►
"in a stream that still has the concept
01:06:31
◼
►
"of blanking intervals.
01:06:32
◼
►
"DisplayPort is more modern and packet-based.
01:06:34
◼
►
"Video over Thunderbolt uses the DisplayPort protocol."
01:06:37
◼
►
So that doesn't have much more information, sorry,
01:06:38
◼
►
but that's what I was trying to remember.
01:06:41
◼
►
- All right, well, I appreciate the try.
01:06:44
◼
►
All right, that's all for follow-up now for SKTP.
01:06:47
◼
►
- My goodness, this went a little longer than we thought.
01:06:49
◼
►
- We've got one more monitor item,
01:06:50
◼
►
and now it's ostensibly a topic, but sure.
01:06:53
◼
►
- Oh, yes, that's right, we do have
01:06:54
◼
►
that one more monitor item, how could I forget?
01:06:56
◼
►
So you are welcome, all of you, every single one of you.
01:07:00
◼
►
What can I say, but you're welcome,
01:07:02
◼
►
because we heard a rumor today,
01:07:04
◼
►
which was a short tweet thread,
01:07:06
◼
►
and then we'll put in a MacRumors post about it,
01:07:08
◼
►
that says, as per Twitter user Dylan something or other,
01:07:13
◼
►
I don't know that they really have a last name,
01:07:15
◼
►
but nevertheless, there are three LG made displays,
01:07:18
◼
►
right, Dylan, encased in unbranded enclosures
01:07:21
◼
►
for usage as external monitors
01:07:22
◼
►
that are in early development,
01:07:24
◼
►
two of which have the same specifications
01:07:25
◼
►
as the upcoming 27-inch and current 24-inch iMac displays.
01:07:30
◼
►
The other display seems to be
01:07:31
◼
►
an improved 32-inch Pro Display XDR.
01:07:33
◼
►
Despite the lack of branding, it can be assumed
01:07:35
◼
►
at the very least that this display will be Apple branded.
01:07:38
◼
►
Okay, I mean, it's a little bit bold, but I'll go with it.
01:07:41
◼
►
Dylan continues, "Interestinglyingly enough,
01:07:43
◼
►
"there seems to be a reference to custom silicon
01:07:45
◼
►
"powering the 32-inch display.
01:07:47
◼
►
"Sadly, no such references were found
01:07:48
◼
►
"for the 27-inch or 24-inch displays
01:07:50
◼
►
"with regards to custom silicon."
01:07:52
◼
►
And Dylan continues, "Finally, this of course
01:07:55
◼
►
"does not rule out the possibility
01:07:56
◼
►
"of custom silicon for these displays.
01:07:57
◼
►
"It simply means that there's not sufficient data
01:07:59
◼
►
"proofing otherwise.
01:07:59
◼
►
"Finally, the 32-inch and 27-inch monitors
01:08:01
◼
►
"seem to have many LED displays
01:08:03
◼
►
"and 120 hertz variable refresh rate."
01:08:06
◼
►
This is very exciting, except for one key word.
01:08:10
◼
►
Did you catch the key word that is making me very sad?
01:08:13
◼
►
Early development.
01:08:14
◼
►
- Early, that does not make me happy at all.
01:08:18
◼
►
- Isn't it weird that like, according to this rumor,
01:08:21
◼
►
again, this is just, I don't think there's much more
01:08:23
◼
►
in these rumors than we've seen in the past,
01:08:25
◼
►
'cause we've seen rumors for months now
01:08:26
◼
►
about Apple making them on an external display
01:08:28
◼
►
with like a system on a chip in it,
01:08:31
◼
►
it's an A something inside there, whatever.
01:08:33
◼
►
But the idea that one of these displays
01:08:36
◼
►
is the same as the one in the current 24-inch iMac,
01:08:40
◼
►
correct me if I'm wrong,
01:08:41
◼
►
but the current 24-inch iMac screen is not high refresh
01:08:44
◼
►
and is not HDR, right?
01:08:47
◼
►
- I don't know about HDR,
01:08:48
◼
►
but it's definitely not high refresh.
01:08:50
◼
►
- It probably is HDR, at least in the old way,
01:08:53
◼
►
like before the micro LED things
01:08:54
◼
►
that all the previous MacBook Pros and stuff had,
01:08:57
◼
►
where like they would just kind of overdrive
01:08:59
◼
►
the screen brightness.
01:09:00
◼
►
- Is it not mini LED as well?
01:09:02
◼
►
- No, as far as I know, the current M1 iMac
01:09:06
◼
►
is not mini LED.
01:09:07
◼
►
- It's 500 nits, yeah, just looked it up.
01:09:09
◼
►
- 24-inch iMacs or 500 nits, that is not HDR.
01:09:11
◼
►
- Right, so all this being said,
01:09:15
◼
►
if this information is correct about the products
01:09:17
◼
►
that are in development, that sounds perfectly great.
01:09:21
◼
►
I'm actually kind of surprised
01:09:22
◼
►
they would sell a smaller monitor,
01:09:25
◼
►
but certainly the 27-inch,
01:09:28
◼
►
assuming that whatever the updated HDR is
01:09:33
◼
►
is probably gonna be similarly priced.
01:09:35
◼
►
And we talked before about the 27-inch,
01:09:39
◼
►
if they do 27-inch 120 hertz and mini LED,
01:09:43
◼
►
that's gonna be probably a fairly expensive display.
01:09:46
◼
►
And so it would be nice then
01:09:48
◼
►
to also have that 24-inch option,
01:09:50
◼
►
although honestly I would want it to be bigger.
01:09:51
◼
►
I'd rather have, I'd rather have a 27-inch
01:09:53
◼
►
that doesn't have 120 hertz and mini LED
01:09:56
◼
►
in the lineup, but anyway.
01:09:59
◼
►
I see why they would do all three of these things,
01:10:01
◼
►
although I would also see why they would only choose
01:10:03
◼
►
to do the top two.
01:10:05
◼
►
But this is also, this is a random person on Twitter,
01:10:10
◼
►
and random people on Twitter who tweet Apple rumors
01:10:14
◼
►
don't have a strong track record.
01:10:17
◼
►
I'm not familiar with this particular person's track record,
01:10:20
◼
►
but I would not read this as gospel.
01:10:24
◼
►
Like until we have somebody who is reliable
01:10:27
◼
►
with this kind of thing,
01:10:29
◼
►
somebody like Ming-Chi Kuo, Mark Gurman,
01:10:32
◼
►
when they start claiming specifics and timelines,
01:10:35
◼
►
those are way more reliable than Twitter leakers
01:10:38
◼
►
and YouTube leakers have been so far.
01:10:40
◼
►
- I think both of those people did have a external display
01:10:43
◼
►
with some kind of chip inside it,
01:10:44
◼
►
rumor from many months ago.
01:10:45
◼
►
- Right, so, and having the chip inside of it,
01:10:50
◼
►
they don't necessarily say what kind of chip it is,
01:10:52
◼
►
it's just a custom Apple chip.
01:10:53
◼
►
That could be a lot of things.
01:10:54
◼
►
That could be a timing controller.
01:10:55
◼
►
That could be a display controller.
01:10:58
◼
►
That could be a lot of things that is not like
01:11:00
◼
►
an M1 Pro running in the display.
01:11:03
◼
►
It could be a lot of things.
01:11:04
◼
►
So I don't think that necessarily means much
01:11:07
◼
►
with the information or lack thereof that we have.
01:11:09
◼
►
But the part about it being early development,
01:11:13
◼
►
that again, that could be true.
01:11:15
◼
►
Gurman said a display was in early development
01:11:17
◼
►
like a year ago.
01:11:19
◼
►
Well, when did they receive the information?
01:11:21
◼
►
Where did this information come from?
01:11:22
◼
►
Maybe they received old information
01:11:24
◼
►
or maybe they only saw evidence of early development
01:11:29
◼
►
because the evidence of the current development
01:11:30
◼
►
didn't leak out in that same way through the same channel.
01:11:33
◼
►
Getting any kind of timeline argument from this,
01:11:36
◼
►
I think is weak and unreliable.
01:11:40
◼
►
It sounds like a lot of this information
01:11:43
◼
►
is being derived from software support somewhere
01:11:46
◼
►
or references that are in a library somewhere
01:11:48
◼
►
to different displays.
01:11:50
◼
►
So I wouldn't read too much into this.
01:11:53
◼
►
We have heard from multiple places for about a year
01:11:55
◼
►
that Apple is working on an external display.
01:11:58
◼
►
At least one that is going to sit below the XDR
01:12:01
◼
►
in the lineup.
01:12:02
◼
►
There is a lot of smoke to that fire.
01:12:04
◼
►
That's probably going to happen.
01:12:07
◼
►
I don't think this information from this person today
01:12:09
◼
►
gives us anything really concrete to work with
01:12:12
◼
►
that we didn't already have.
01:12:14
◼
►
I wouldn't assume that the 24 inch proves to be a thing.
01:12:19
◼
►
I wouldn't assume that anything this person said
01:12:22
◼
►
that wasn't backed up by other sources over the last year
01:12:24
◼
►
would be a sure thing.
01:12:26
◼
►
It's all maybe.
01:12:28
◼
►
If this is true, that'd be great.
01:12:31
◼
►
The timeline is not going to be what Casey wants,
01:12:33
◼
►
but that would be a great.
01:12:35
◼
►
Again, typical Apple fashion.
01:12:37
◼
►
They basically stopped working on the Mac
01:12:40
◼
►
from 2016 until about 2018.
01:12:43
◼
►
They really did almost nothing for the Mac in that time.
01:12:49
◼
►
For whatever reason, history will eventually maybe tell us
01:12:53
◼
►
and some tell all books sometime.
01:12:54
◼
►
But it certainly seems like they basically
01:12:57
◼
►
turned off Mac development hardware wise for that time.
01:13:01
◼
►
There was this giant hole in the lineup
01:13:03
◼
►
and they decided to fill it sometime in the last
01:13:05
◼
►
couple of years I think, from what we can derive so far.
01:13:09
◼
►
And it takes some time to make stuff.
01:13:11
◼
►
And an external display is going to be way lower priority
01:13:14
◼
►
than things like fixing the Mac Pro fire
01:13:16
◼
►
they made for themselves and fixing the laptop fire
01:13:18
◼
►
they made for themselves.
01:13:20
◼
►
These things are all more important.
01:13:22
◼
►
And so if you only have a certain amount of engineering
01:13:24
◼
►
resources that you're willing to devote to the Mac
01:13:26
◼
►
and certain teams you're going to move around to do it,
01:13:29
◼
►
the monitor is going to be last priority.
01:13:31
◼
►
- Well, you say that, but all the other fires are out
01:13:33
◼
►
at this point, right?
01:13:34
◼
►
Like, yes, yes, yes, Mac Pro.
01:13:36
◼
►
And actually legitimately the 27-inch iMac.
01:13:38
◼
►
But other than those two, which I would argue
01:13:41
◼
►
the Mac Pro is a smaller fire, what else is left, right?
01:13:44
◼
►
Like in terms of Mac stuff, this is it.
01:13:47
◼
►
This is what they gotta fix.
01:13:48
◼
►
- Agreed, and I think that this is very likely to be
01:13:52
◼
►
a problem that Apple has decided to solve.
01:13:55
◼
►
When they decided to solve it is, you know,
01:13:57
◼
►
that's a question mark.
01:13:59
◼
►
And how quickly the result of that will come onto the market
01:14:03
◼
►
is another question mark.
01:14:04
◼
►
Whether the result will solve it is a third question mark.
01:14:09
◼
►
But it does seem like they are making an extra monitor,
01:14:12
◼
►
at least one that is going to be lower than the XDR
01:14:15
◼
►
in the product line.
01:14:17
◼
►
But other than that, I don't think this gives us
01:14:18
◼
►
any new information at all.
01:14:21
◼
►
- One quibble with what you had said earlier.
01:14:22
◼
►
I personally am not familiar with Dylan, what is this,
01:14:26
◼
►
DylanDKT is the Twitter user.
01:14:29
◼
►
I have never seen this person before.
01:14:30
◼
►
But as per the summary on MacRumors, they write,
01:14:33
◼
►
"According to Twitter account, DylanDKT,
01:14:37
◼
►
"who has a mostly accurate track record
01:14:39
◼
►
"with Apple-related rumors."
01:14:40
◼
►
I have no earthly idea what that track record is based on,
01:14:43
◼
►
what rumors this person has leaked.
01:14:45
◼
►
But according to MacRumors, they seem to think
01:14:48
◼
►
that this person is not a complete dope.
01:14:50
◼
►
So take that for what you will.
01:14:52
◼
►
- But the problem with this rumor, it says,
01:14:53
◼
►
"We found three displays."
01:14:54
◼
►
And you can explain the use of those displays all
01:14:58
◼
►
in a context other than a new external display.
01:15:00
◼
►
Because the 24 inch, he already says it's the one
01:15:02
◼
►
they use in 24-inch iMac.
01:15:03
◼
►
Great, well, so why do we care about that?
01:15:07
◼
►
Yes, there's a display used in the 24-inch iMac.
01:15:09
◼
►
Okay, maybe that's for a 24-inch iMac.
01:15:12
◼
►
Then there's a 27-inch one for the upcoming iMac.
01:15:14
◼
►
Okay, maybe that's display for the upcoming iMac,
01:15:17
◼
►
which is also not an external display.
01:15:19
◼
►
And then finally, 32-inch for the replacement
01:15:21
◼
►
for their one existing extremely high priced external monitor.
01:15:24
◼
►
So none of those, you know,
01:15:26
◼
►
"Hey, we found these display panels."
01:15:28
◼
►
None of those things necessarily say
01:15:30
◼
►
that there will be a new display that is not the XDR.
01:15:33
◼
►
All it says is, "We found one that might be
01:15:34
◼
►
"for the new XDR, and we found two other ones
01:15:35
◼
►
"that are going into iMacs."
01:15:38
◼
►
- The other thing is that this says
01:15:40
◼
►
that LG is developing these things.
01:15:44
◼
►
And to some degree, that is not as bad as it sounds
01:15:49
◼
►
because LG makes the panels that Apple often uses
01:15:54
◼
►
in their large display computers.
01:15:55
◼
►
- It's actually two different companies.
01:15:57
◼
►
So there's LG Display and LG Electronics.
01:15:59
◼
►
And the company you hate is LG Electronics
01:16:01
◼
►
'cause they make the monitor.
01:16:02
◼
►
LG Display makes the panels that, like for example,
01:16:05
◼
►
LG Display makes the OLED panels
01:16:06
◼
►
that every single OLED TV maker uses.
01:16:09
◼
►
Sony uses them, Panasonic uses them.
01:16:10
◼
►
- I didn't know that.
01:16:11
◼
►
- Right, and LG Display sells their panels
01:16:14
◼
►
to LG Electronics.
01:16:16
◼
►
And the relationship between LG Electronics
01:16:18
◼
►
and LG Display is surprisingly contentious
01:16:21
◼
►
considering it's like same team.
01:16:22
◼
►
Like for example, LG Display versus LG Electronics
01:16:26
◼
►
have disagreements about whether or not we should
01:16:30
◼
►
move on to display technology XYZ.
01:16:33
◼
►
Like what should we do next after OLED?
01:16:34
◼
►
Should we use QD OLED?
01:16:36
◼
►
Should we go back to some weird LCD thing or whatever?
01:16:38
◼
►
There's very often debates between them
01:16:40
◼
►
as to what they actually want for their next television.
01:16:42
◼
►
So it's super weird over there.
01:16:45
◼
►
So when Apple's talking about,
01:16:47
◼
►
Apple is buying things from LG Display.
01:16:50
◼
►
They're not buying things from LG Electronics.
01:16:51
◼
►
But of course, Apple does have some kind of relationship
01:16:53
◼
►
with LG Electronics 'cause I think they kind of like
01:16:55
◼
►
essentially cajoled them into making the stupid 5K
01:16:58
◼
►
that we all love.
01:16:59
◼
►
- Totally, and Apple does that, at least they did
01:17:02
◼
►
that kind of relationship with lots of companies before.
01:17:05
◼
►
Especially in the last few years, Belkin has been
01:17:08
◼
►
the recipient of a lot of those kind of seemingly
01:17:10
◼
►
like Apple contracts possibly,
01:17:12
◼
►
where Apple will kind of just work it out
01:17:16
◼
►
with either Belkin or LG or somebody like that.
01:17:18
◼
►
Like hey, we don't wanna make USB to Ethernet adapters
01:17:21
◼
►
anymore, just please you make one that follows these specs
01:17:24
◼
►
and we'll sell it in our stores and we'll promote it.
01:17:27
◼
►
And that's probably the arrangement they have with LG.
01:17:29
◼
►
Probably something like that, LG Electronics,
01:17:31
◼
►
for the ultra fines.
01:17:34
◼
►
I hope that LG in this rumor only refers to LG Display
01:17:39
◼
►
because I hope that Apple has realized,
01:17:42
◼
►
and I think they probably have,
01:17:43
◼
►
that outsourcing those essential items to LG or Belkin
01:17:48
◼
►
or companies like that doesn't usually result
01:17:51
◼
►
in the quality that Apple wants.
01:17:53
◼
►
- You get a monitor that doesn't work when it's near WiFi,
01:17:55
◼
►
remember that?
01:17:56
◼
►
- Yeah, that was the first version, yep.
01:17:58
◼
►
- It's like real basic kind of like hey,
01:18:00
◼
►
so your job is to take this panel from LG Display
01:18:03
◼
►
and make a monitor out of it, can you do that?
01:18:05
◼
►
It's like it won't be near WiFi, right?
01:18:07
◼
►
I mean, we didn't really test it near WiFi,
01:18:09
◼
►
we were just surprised as you when we shipped this product
01:18:12
◼
►
to customers and their thing turns off when it's near WiFi.
01:18:14
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:18:15
◼
►
And you know what also is pretty mediocre?
01:18:17
◼
►
The Belkin USB CD Ethernet adapter.
01:18:19
◼
►
Like these things, Apple should make these things
01:18:22
◼
►
if they matter and the monitor matters.
01:18:26
◼
►
That is definitely an area where it matters.
01:18:29
◼
►
And I hope Apple has learned that.
01:18:32
◼
►
And again, given how good their recent releases have been,
01:18:37
◼
►
it really does seem like there was this bad period
01:18:40
◼
►
with the Mac for a few years, they have since turned it
01:18:43
◼
►
around and it has just taken a while for like the good stuff
01:18:47
◼
►
to really come out.
01:18:48
◼
►
As part of that turnaround, I would expect current day Apple
01:18:53
◼
►
to be making these monitors themselves,
01:18:54
◼
►
not to have LG Electronics give them another crappy
01:18:58
◼
►
ultra-fine solution.
01:18:59
◼
►
Like I would expect whatever comes out is gonna be
01:19:02
◼
►
Apple branded with an Apple price tag sold in Apple stores
01:19:06
◼
►
and hopefully with Apple quality.
01:19:08
◼
►
- I sure hope so.
01:19:09
◼
►
And I mean, obviously I'm burned by this ultra-fine
01:19:13
◼
►
experience, so burned that I bought a different $300
01:19:16
◼
►
LG monitor, but nevertheless.
01:19:18
◼
►
- You don't see that burned.
01:19:20
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:19:20
◼
►
- I hate this LG so much I'm gonna buy two more of them.
01:19:23
◼
►
- All right.
01:19:24
◼
►
- Well that's the thing, like when you look, again,
01:19:25
◼
►
looking for gaming monitors and stuff,
01:19:27
◼
►
a lot of the top choices are often by LG,
01:19:30
◼
►
'cause of course LG makes the panels.
01:19:31
◼
►
And LG Electronics often packages those panels
01:19:34
◼
►
in a reasonable thing, like you know, Asus and on Razer
01:19:39
◼
►
and whatever, all these other gaming companies
01:19:40
◼
►
also package them, but they have like RGB lights
01:19:42
◼
►
and these weird pointy things all over them.
01:19:44
◼
►
And so if you just want, just give me the LG display
01:19:47
◼
►
inside like a black rectangular thing,
01:19:49
◼
►
LG Electronics and their monitors,
01:19:51
◼
►
they have lots of different options for them.
01:19:52
◼
►
And it's, you know, they're one of the better sources
01:19:56
◼
►
to get those things, because it's not like you're gonna buy
01:19:57
◼
►
an Apple to monitor for your PlayStation or whatever.
01:20:00
◼
►
- Yeah, but I mean, I am really hopeful that this rumor
01:20:04
◼
►
comes true in some way, shape or form,
01:20:07
◼
►
and I really hope it's sooner rather than later.
01:20:09
◼
►
Like in a perfect world, I will have my 5K back soon
01:20:14
◼
►
and it will actually work and it will stay working
01:20:16
◼
►
for a little while.
01:20:17
◼
►
In a worst case scenario, I will have one or, you know,
01:20:20
◼
►
at least one of these 4K monitors that I can fall back on
01:20:23
◼
►
if necessary, but I would love, I would love to be able
01:20:28
◼
►
to retire this LG Ultrafine 5K and buy an Apple branded,
01:20:33
◼
►
or even if it was an LG Electronics display,
01:20:37
◼
►
that actually worked better.
01:20:38
◼
►
And if they've learned their lesson from the 5K,
01:20:42
◼
►
I would be okay with that.
01:20:43
◼
►
I just, I would really love to start fresh and try again.
01:20:46
◼
►
And I really think that, you know, 1,300,
01:20:50
◼
►
I think the 5K is $1,300 new right now
01:20:52
◼
►
or something like that.
01:20:53
◼
►
That is an expensive monitor.
01:20:56
◼
►
It is very expensive, arguably not worth the $1,000 premium
01:21:00
◼
►
over the monitors that are sitting in front of me right now,
01:21:02
◼
►
or, you know, one of the monitors sitting in front
01:21:04
◼
►
of me right now.
01:21:05
◼
►
But I would do it because I really love having that 5K
01:21:08
◼
►
in front of me.
01:21:09
◼
►
But yeah, and so I think an Apple branded version of that,
01:21:13
◼
►
like I would probably pay two grand for an Apple,
01:21:16
◼
►
you know, equivalent of an LG Ultrafine 5K
01:21:18
◼
►
that actually worked reliably.
01:21:20
◼
►
I would probably pay a couple thousand dollars for that.
01:21:22
◼
►
It's just, there's such a gap between,
01:21:24
◼
►
there's a pretty big gap between the $300 monitor
01:21:28
◼
►
that I've come to like and the Ultrafine 5K.
01:21:31
◼
►
And there's just this phenomenal gap between
01:21:35
◼
►
the Ultrafine 5K and the XDR.
01:21:37
◼
►
And I really feel like there's a place for at least one,
01:21:39
◼
►
if not a couple of options in that space.
01:21:42
◼
►
Now, kind of tangentially related,
01:21:44
◼
►
I don't trust myself to do this mental math at this hour,
01:21:48
◼
►
much less, probably at any point, but nevertheless,
01:21:53
◼
►
if there was, and if there was a 5K 120 hertz HDR monitor,
01:22:02
◼
►
we don't have a port that can support that
01:22:05
◼
►
without some sort of compression, right?
01:22:06
◼
►
I feel like the three of us have talked about this
01:22:08
◼
►
in the past. - Yeah, I think we went
01:22:09
◼
►
through this before.
01:22:10
◼
►
I think it's plausible with display stream compression,
01:22:12
◼
►
which gets used for the XDR as well in many scenarios, so.
01:22:16
◼
►
- So we think we could do it on today's hardware.
01:22:19
◼
►
- Jonathan needs to go through the math again,
01:22:21
◼
►
but yeah, I think it's plausible.
01:22:24
◼
►
- Fair enough.
01:22:25
◼
►
I mean, I would, and that's the thing is,
01:22:26
◼
►
I think Marco has been saying this as well,
01:22:28
◼
►
and I agree with Marco.
01:22:29
◼
►
Like, if I couldn't run at 120 hertz on an external display,
01:22:34
◼
►
on the computer that's sitting on my desk right now,
01:22:37
◼
►
I'd be okay with that.
01:22:38
◼
►
If I didn't have HDR, that would bail me out too,
01:22:41
◼
►
but I'd be okay with that.
01:22:42
◼
►
Like, I just want a reliable 5K display that works.
01:22:44
◼
►
That's all I want, is a reliable 5K display that works.
01:22:47
◼
►
- Yeah, and until we have those in the market,
01:22:52
◼
►
like 4K, or you know, HDR and 120 hertz are just like,
01:22:57
◼
►
nice to have in the future bonuses,
01:22:59
◼
►
but like, until those basics are covered,
01:23:02
◼
►
like, we'll be fine.
01:23:03
◼
►
Like, just give us the basics.
01:23:05
◼
►
Like, that's what we need.
01:23:06
◼
►
The rest of the stuff, you can deliver that when you can.
01:23:09
◼
►
- I feel like it's starting to be table stakes.
01:23:11
◼
►
I mean, we just assume the big iMac's gonna have
01:23:12
◼
►
all that stuff.
01:23:13
◼
►
We know the laptops have it, so it's kind of,
01:23:15
◼
►
I know you don't need it to code.
01:23:17
◼
►
Like, I know you don't need HDR or 120 hertz to code,
01:23:19
◼
►
and it'll be fine, but eventually it just becomes
01:23:21
◼
►
kind of the baseline, and you feel disappointed
01:23:23
◼
►
if you don't get it.
01:23:24
◼
►
Kind of like 24-bit color for, I think you PC,
01:23:27
◼
►
losers spent decades being like, 24-bit colors,
01:23:29
◼
►
who needs all those colors?
01:23:30
◼
►
That's ridiculous, but eventually it just becomes
01:23:32
◼
►
the baseline, and now we never go to the, you know,
01:23:34
◼
►
system preferences to colors and pick, you know,
01:23:38
◼
►
what is it, four, eight, 16, 256, thousands and millions?
01:23:43
◼
►
Those, or something like that used to be the choices
01:23:45
◼
►
in Mac OS, that doesn't exist anymore.
01:23:47
◼
►
24-bit is just the baseline.
01:23:48
◼
►
I don't need all those colors, it's ridiculous.
01:23:50
◼
►
Eventually I feel like HDR, and in fact, improving HDR,
01:23:55
◼
►
in terms of like, you know, what is the maximum brightness,
01:23:57
◼
►
can you do it full screen versus a 10% window or whatever.
01:24:01
◼
►
Not this year maybe, but like, in a few years,
01:24:03
◼
►
just like retina eventually became the floor,
01:24:05
◼
►
and we made fun of the remaining non-retina monitors,
01:24:07
◼
►
HDR and higher refresh will be the floor eventually too.
01:24:10
◼
►
- Agreed, I just don't know how long that infinite,
01:24:13
◼
►
or really ultimately finite timescale is.
01:24:16
◼
►
- But you know, this is the year when I feel like
01:24:18
◼
►
every single Mac that Apple sells that has a monitor,
01:24:21
◼
►
or can attach to a monitor is probably going to be HDR
01:24:25
◼
►
and a high refresh.
01:24:26
◼
►
- I think you're probably right,
01:24:28
◼
►
like that is probably what's going to happen,
01:24:30
◼
►
but I also agree with Casey that like, we don't need that.
01:24:33
◼
►
At like, I'm perfectly, like the other day,
01:24:36
◼
►
I noticed 120 hertz on my laptop,
01:24:39
◼
►
I think for the first time.
01:24:41
◼
►
Like I was scrolling something, I think a Tweetbot list,
01:24:45
◼
►
and that happened to be whatever combination of conditions
01:24:50
◼
►
makes it run at 120 hertz, and I was like,
01:24:53
◼
►
"Oh, that's pretty smooth."
01:24:55
◼
►
But then I instantly forgot about it
01:24:56
◼
►
once I did anything else, and it's fine.
01:24:58
◼
►
Like, until I have 120 hertz everywhere,
01:25:02
◼
►
I'm not really going to notice its absence, I think.
01:25:07
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I agree.
01:25:08
◼
►
So, I do think this is, you know,
01:25:11
◼
►
to try to put a positive spin on this,
01:25:13
◼
►
I do think this is great news,
01:25:14
◼
►
that there's at least some amount of smoke
01:25:16
◼
►
that there is a fire being built within Apple
01:25:19
◼
►
to make some sort of new monitor.
01:25:21
◼
►
I really, really hope that this comes true.
01:25:24
◼
►
And I know the Apple Way,
01:25:26
◼
►
maybe not in the last six months to a year,
01:25:30
◼
►
but for a long time, the Apple Way was, you know,
01:25:32
◼
►
"Here's our $6,000 6K monitor,
01:25:35
◼
►
"and if you don't want that, then kindly piss off
01:25:37
◼
►
"and get one of these pedestrian $300 ones
01:25:40
◼
►
"that only losers use."
01:25:42
◼
►
And I really think that there's room for,
01:25:44
◼
►
I think there's room for a 24-inch, and a 27-inch,
01:25:48
◼
►
and a 32-inch.
01:25:49
◼
►
I would love to see all three of those.
01:25:51
◼
►
And we'll see what happens.
01:25:52
◼
►
- My concern is that if they're making a 24,
01:25:56
◼
►
that probably means the 27 is gonna be really expensive,
01:25:59
◼
►
and that's why they have to make a 24.
01:26:01
◼
►
- Maybe, maybe.
01:26:02
◼
►
And obviously, you know, again, I have my hopes for a 5K,
01:26:05
◼
►
but if I had a 4K that was 100% rock solid,
01:26:10
◼
►
which is so far what I'm looking at right now,
01:26:12
◼
►
that wouldn't be so bad.
01:26:13
◼
►
So, we'll see, I don't know.
01:26:16
◼
►
I'm really, really hopeful that this will be
01:26:18
◼
►
a springtime surprise sometime next year,
01:26:20
◼
►
although I don't actually expect it to be
01:26:22
◼
►
by any stretch of the imagination.
01:26:24
◼
►
- We are sponsored this week by Squarespace.
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You also probably know how to make websites.
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But there's also a lot of times where making it yourself
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from scratch or setting up your own server
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or the project that you're working on.
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Or it's really hard to set up the kind of site
01:27:00
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you're working on.
01:27:01
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Like, if you wanna set up your own storefront
01:27:03
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or like your own podcast hosting and things like that,
01:27:05
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that can be pretty hard to do yourself.
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So, you just focus on the site.
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01:28:19
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►
- Hey, you wanna do some Ask ATP?
01:28:24
◼
►
We need to clear some of this out.
01:28:26
◼
►
So, this was added to Ask ATP possibly six months ago,
01:28:31
◼
►
which is relevant when you hear me read
01:28:33
◼
►
that Steve Wellington writes,
01:28:34
◼
►
"I'm getting my first iPhone this Friday,"
01:28:37
◼
►
six months ago,
01:28:39
◼
►
"after a decade on Android." - 2007?
01:28:41
◼
►
"What are your favorite things that I should know?
01:28:43
◼
►
"Tips, apps, obscure settings, et cetera."
01:28:46
◼
►
You know, I should have done homework on this.
01:28:48
◼
►
It's been so long since I've had a new iPhone.
01:28:51
◼
►
I don't even know what people don't know these days.
01:28:55
◼
►
I don't think I put this in, so I don't know.
01:28:58
◼
►
Whoever put this in, you gotta have some idea
01:28:59
◼
►
of some good tips, and maybe that'll spur my memory
01:29:02
◼
►
and make me think of others.
01:29:03
◼
►
What do you guys got?
01:29:04
◼
►
- I suggest Overcast for your podcast needs.
01:29:06
◼
►
- Actually, yeah, use Overcast.
01:29:07
◼
►
That's a good idea.
01:29:08
◼
►
- You sure you didn't put this in case?
01:29:09
◼
►
Yeah, I think you did.
01:29:11
◼
►
Well, it was still darn long ago.
01:29:12
◼
►
I've forgotten whatever I was gonna say then.
01:29:14
◼
►
- All right, well, so here's my main tip.
01:29:17
◼
►
Part of the reason all of us don't have,
01:29:19
◼
►
like, what were the tips?
01:29:20
◼
►
I don't remember what it was like to have a new phone,
01:29:21
◼
►
is because Apple's system for sort of setting up
01:29:25
◼
►
your new phone like your old one is pretty good, right?
01:29:29
◼
►
And so there are things that we set about the iPhone,
01:29:32
◼
►
you know, some of us in 2007,
01:29:34
◼
►
that we have just never thought about or looked at again.
01:29:38
◼
►
But if we suddenly got a factory refresh phone
01:29:40
◼
►
or all those settings were off,
01:29:41
◼
►
we'd be like, what's weird about this phone?
01:29:42
◼
►
This doesn't work the way I want it to, right?
01:29:44
◼
►
So my first suggestion is to, when you get the iPhone,
01:29:48
◼
►
spend a long amount of time in the Settings app
01:29:50
◼
►
just going through every single screen.
01:29:52
◼
►
We can't tell you which exact settings
01:29:54
◼
►
you're gonna wanna change or whatever.
01:29:55
◼
►
And also it's organized in a really Byzantine way,
01:29:57
◼
►
so we can't even tell you look in this section,
01:29:59
◼
►
look in that section, although I will say,
01:30:01
◼
►
do not skip the Accessibility section,
01:30:03
◼
►
'cause there's lots of good stuff in there.
01:30:05
◼
►
And just wander through the settings.
01:30:06
◼
►
This is a thing that might sound dumb or boring,
01:30:08
◼
►
but I think for most computer enthusiasts, let's say,
01:30:13
◼
►
going through the settings or the preference screen
01:30:15
◼
►
is like the first thing we do in any application, right?
01:30:17
◼
►
What can this thing do?
01:30:18
◼
►
What can I change about it, right?
01:30:20
◼
►
What are the options that I have available?
01:30:22
◼
►
How can I customize it to be the way that I like it?
01:30:25
◼
►
And just go through literally every single Settings screen,
01:30:27
◼
►
just for the phone, not for every single app,
01:30:29
◼
►
'cause apps also put their settings in Settings,
01:30:31
◼
►
which is dumb and weird, but whatever.
01:30:32
◼
►
And you will find things in there that pique your interest.
01:30:37
◼
►
And maybe you'll change your mind about them, whatever,
01:30:39
◼
►
but key clicks on or key clicks off, right?
01:30:43
◼
►
How big do you want the text?
01:30:44
◼
►
Oh, I can change it to make it easier to read.
01:30:46
◼
►
Sometimes you can change the screen resolution.
01:30:48
◼
►
I don't even know if that's still in there.
01:30:49
◼
►
Make everything bigger or smaller on the phone.
01:30:51
◼
►
- I believe DisplayZoom is still offered.
01:30:53
◼
►
- Yeah, there's so many things in there.
01:30:55
◼
►
Reduce motion, higher contrast,
01:30:58
◼
►
not just accessibility things.
01:30:59
◼
►
Sound, what sounds do various things make?
01:31:01
◼
►
Oh, did you know you can make different sounds
01:31:03
◼
►
for different notifications for different people
01:31:06
◼
►
who text you in Messages or whatever?
01:31:08
◼
►
And when I say the Apple stuff,
01:31:08
◼
►
I mean the built-in Apple apps as well.
01:31:11
◼
►
I'm just saying, just don't go through
01:31:11
◼
►
every third-party app's Settings screen.
01:31:14
◼
►
Settings will bubble up to the top,
01:31:15
◼
►
like the important first-party apps,
01:31:17
◼
►
like Safari messages, camera, stuff like that.
01:31:20
◼
►
And just spend some time there getting set up,
01:31:22
◼
►
and trust that the time you spend setting that crap up
01:31:26
◼
►
will be well spent, because the next phone that you get,
01:31:28
◼
►
you won't have to do this all again.
01:31:29
◼
►
It will just carry this stuff over for you,
01:31:31
◼
►
which is why we don't know what any of these settings are.
01:31:34
◼
►
And the final thing I'll suggest,
01:31:35
◼
►
just because this is the way I run my phone
01:31:37
◼
►
and a surprising number of people do,
01:31:38
◼
►
is on the side of your iPhone,
01:31:40
◼
►
there is shockingly surprisingly
01:31:42
◼
►
a tiny little physical switch called,
01:31:44
◼
►
I guess it's the silent button, the ring silence button.
01:31:47
◼
►
What the hell is that button called?
01:31:49
◼
►
I think it's called the mute switch.
01:31:50
◼
►
The mute switch, anyway, it's a physical switch.
01:31:53
◼
►
And when you put that switch
01:31:54
◼
►
so that the red part is showing,
01:31:56
◼
►
your phone is in silent mode.
01:31:58
◼
►
Back from the old days when we had feature phones,
01:31:59
◼
►
it was like business that turned the ringer off, right?
01:32:02
◼
►
If you do that, it's not that nothing on the phone
01:32:06
◼
►
will ever make a sound,
01:32:08
◼
►
it's that the phone won't make a sound from its speaker
01:32:12
◼
►
when you're not using it for the most part.
01:32:15
◼
►
And so I think a lot of people,
01:32:16
◼
►
if you don't know what that is, or don't think about it,
01:32:18
◼
►
you're like, well, I want audio to come out of my phone,
01:32:20
◼
►
why would I make it silent?
01:32:22
◼
►
Like, I need to hear things.
01:32:23
◼
►
I wanna watch a YouTube video and hear stuff, right?
01:32:26
◼
►
Why would I put the silent switch on?
01:32:28
◼
►
Turning that silent switch on
01:32:29
◼
►
does not stop you from watching a movie on your phone
01:32:32
◼
►
and hearing the audio of that movie
01:32:34
◼
►
out of the phone speakers, right?
01:32:36
◼
►
That will still work.
01:32:37
◼
►
What it does mean is when your phone is off
01:32:38
◼
►
and someone texts you, it will not make a be-ding sound,
01:32:41
◼
►
it will vibrate instead, right?
01:32:44
◼
►
It will like, you know, to use the vibration motor
01:32:46
◼
►
or whatever the haptic thing in it.
01:32:48
◼
►
And I have to say a few times that I've turned that off
01:32:51
◼
►
and my phone has started bleeping and blooping at me,
01:32:53
◼
►
I was like, what the, oh, I somehow, you know,
01:32:55
◼
►
I must've been cleaning it
01:32:56
◼
►
and I switched the silent switch back to on.
01:32:58
◼
►
I am a strong proponent of just leaving that silent switch
01:33:01
◼
►
on silent for the life of your phone.
01:33:03
◼
►
And a surprising number of people
01:33:06
◼
►
who are long-time iPhone users do that.
01:33:08
◼
►
And it does not really impair your ability to use it
01:33:13
◼
►
or be notified because again,
01:33:15
◼
►
like a vibrating iPhone on a hard surface,
01:33:17
◼
►
you'll hear that from across the room.
01:33:19
◼
►
Don't think you won't notice that you got texted.
01:33:21
◼
►
If it's on a pillow, no, you won't hear it
01:33:23
◼
►
and the ding would be better, right?
01:33:24
◼
►
But it's a physical switch.
01:33:25
◼
►
It's really, really easy to change your mind about that.
01:33:28
◼
►
I'm about to put my phone down on this pillow
01:33:30
◼
►
and go to the other room.
01:33:31
◼
►
But if I get texted, I wanna hear it.
01:33:33
◼
►
Click, put the switch on, go in the other room.
01:33:34
◼
►
Like you don't have to go launch into a screen.
01:33:36
◼
►
You don't even have to unlock your phone.
01:33:37
◼
►
It's a physical button.
01:33:38
◼
►
It's amazing, amazing feature they have.
01:33:40
◼
►
It's a button on the outside of your phone
01:33:42
◼
►
that you don't need to use the screen to access.
01:33:44
◼
►
Take advantage of that button.
01:33:45
◼
►
Decide which, how you want it to be set
01:33:48
◼
►
and don't be afraid to move that switch up and down.
01:33:51
◼
►
- That is a very good fidget device,
01:33:53
◼
►
which you shouldn't use it for,
01:33:54
◼
►
but I definitely don't stress test the switch.
01:33:57
◼
►
It's probably only good for like 30,000 switches.
01:34:00
◼
►
- Nonetheless, and as it turns out, I think you were right.
01:34:03
◼
►
This was apparently sent in in September
01:34:06
◼
►
and I said I was going to add it to the list.
01:34:08
◼
►
And I actually apologized in advance
01:34:10
◼
►
that we probably wouldn't get to it for quote a month quote.
01:34:13
◼
►
So I was a little off there, but nevertheless,
01:34:14
◼
►
at least I knew us well enough to know.
01:34:16
◼
►
- That's awesome.
01:34:16
◼
►
- Someone puts it on the chat room.
01:34:17
◼
►
Like when you have that silent thing on
01:34:19
◼
►
and you're sleeping and you set the alarm and the clock app,
01:34:21
◼
►
which is a built-in app or whatever,
01:34:23
◼
►
the alarm will still go off too.
01:34:24
◼
►
Like it will wake you up.
01:34:25
◼
►
Like don't worry that the silent thing
01:34:27
◼
►
is going to stop you from,
01:34:28
◼
►
like I guess this thing you just learned from experience,
01:34:31
◼
►
what does the silent thing stop versus what does it not stop?
01:34:33
◼
►
But for the most part, it does smart stuff.
01:34:36
◼
►
Like if you forget you have that silent switch on,
01:34:37
◼
►
but you set an alarm to wake you up at 5 a.m.
01:34:39
◼
►
and you put your phone to sleep and plug it in
01:34:41
◼
►
and put it on your nightstand,
01:34:42
◼
►
I'm pretty sure that alarm will still go off and make sound.
01:34:46
◼
►
- Yeah, alarms will always bypass the mute switch.
01:34:49
◼
►
And there are even certain apps can register
01:34:52
◼
►
for a special entitlement that will allow them
01:34:54
◼
►
to do the same thing.
01:34:55
◼
►
So there are certain like custom apps from other people
01:34:58
◼
►
who are not Apple that are like important alerts
01:35:00
◼
►
of some type that can do that as well.
01:35:03
◼
►
Yeah, and the only thing, I would add a couple
01:35:05
◼
►
of small things to this question.
01:35:07
◼
►
Number one, I would suggest turning down the sensitivity
01:35:12
◼
►
of Face ID security in one key way.
01:35:17
◼
►
There's a switch under Face ID and passcode
01:35:19
◼
►
require attention for Face ID.
01:35:22
◼
►
This means basically like require you to be looking at it
01:35:25
◼
►
to actually count as Face ID.
01:35:28
◼
►
I would say this is not necessary for many people.
01:35:31
◼
►
Evaluate your own security needs
01:35:33
◼
►
and if this is not necessary for you,
01:35:34
◼
►
that's fine to turn off.
01:35:36
◼
►
I would also turn off the switch right below it.
01:35:38
◼
►
Attention aware features, which should have a hyphen
01:35:41
◼
►
between attention and aware, but doesn't
01:35:43
◼
►
because I guess they're expensive in California.
01:35:45
◼
►
And it shows that you have a notification
01:35:48
◼
►
on the lock screen, but until you look at it
01:35:50
◼
►
and unlock it with your face,
01:35:51
◼
►
it doesn't show you the contents of the notification.
01:35:54
◼
►
This again is a level of security
01:35:55
◼
►
that I personally don't need and many people don't need.
01:35:58
◼
►
- I love that feature.
01:35:59
◼
►
- Right, so evaluate your own security needs.
01:36:01
◼
►
If you don't need that feature, don't use it.
01:36:03
◼
►
And beyond that, I would kind of go a little bit extending
01:36:06
◼
►
what John was saying.
01:36:08
◼
►
I would say use the built-in apps first
01:36:11
◼
►
before you seek out a replacement in most cases
01:36:14
◼
►
because when you use Apple's built-in apps for things
01:36:17
◼
►
like notes and reminders and stuff like that,
01:36:19
◼
►
mail, Safari, when you use the built-in apps,
01:36:23
◼
►
a lot of things about the system work better
01:36:25
◼
►
or are more convenient or are less of a pain in your butt
01:36:28
◼
►
or enable certain kind of integrated features
01:36:30
◼
►
that you might enjoy.
01:36:31
◼
►
And that's part of the big benefit of Apple stuff
01:36:33
◼
►
is when you buy in further into Apple stuff,
01:36:37
◼
►
when you use more of their integration,
01:36:39
◼
►
more of their first-party apps,
01:36:41
◼
►
you get a lot more of those cool features.
01:36:43
◼
►
And over time, as they add more of those features,
01:36:47
◼
►
every day, they announced some new thing.
01:36:49
◼
►
I was like, well, this is gonna be great,
01:36:50
◼
►
but I don't use reminders or whatever.
01:36:52
◼
►
And then you're disappointed.
01:36:53
◼
►
It's good to minimize those areas
01:36:55
◼
►
that are unnecessarily using third-party apps
01:36:58
◼
►
where the first-party app actually would cover
01:37:01
◼
►
your needs just fine.
01:37:02
◼
►
So by default, I would say try Apple's built-in stuff
01:37:05
◼
►
in most cases, except for the podcast app
01:37:08
◼
►
which is called Re
01:37:17
◼
►
Reviewed It and called it a quote, tour de force.
01:37:20
◼
►
Things change over the years.
01:37:21
◼
►
So I wonder whether you have any opinions
01:37:23
◼
►
on these apps these days.
01:37:25
◼
►
Do you use a Finder app replacement?
01:37:28
◼
►
- I think that Pathfinder review
01:37:29
◼
►
was gotta be over a decade ago, right?
01:37:31
◼
►
I don't even wanna look up how many years ago it was.
01:37:33
◼
►
But Pathfinder still exists.
01:37:34
◼
►
In fact, I just recently bought the latest version of it
01:37:37
◼
►
as part of some big app bundle thing
01:37:38
◼
►
that I found myself buying.
01:37:39
◼
►
So the problem with Finder alternatives
01:37:44
◼
►
is kind of like what Margot was just talking about.
01:37:45
◼
►
Apple does not make it particularly easy
01:37:49
◼
►
to supplant a lot of its built-in apps.
01:37:51
◼
►
So part of the reason why using Safari is so convenient is,
01:37:55
◼
►
well, I don't know, is this still true?
01:37:57
◼
►
They let you replace your mail app
01:37:59
◼
►
and your web browser on iOS now?
01:38:01
◼
►
- Yeah, basically to handle mail to and URL links.
01:38:04
◼
►
- So I need another example.
01:38:05
◼
►
But Apple has been slow on iOS in letting you replace
01:38:08
◼
►
all the built-in apps with custom versions
01:38:10
◼
►
of like Reminders I think still can't be replaced
01:38:12
◼
►
as a default, right?
01:38:14
◼
►
- That is correct.
01:38:15
◼
►
So Reminders, certainly things like Notes and--
01:38:18
◼
►
- Or things like Siri.
01:38:19
◼
►
You can't replace Siri with--
01:38:20
◼
►
- Music. - Amazon.
01:38:21
◼
►
- Maps. - Right, yeah.
01:38:23
◼
►
So that's an annoyance.
01:38:26
◼
►
And on the Mac, the Finder is not easy to replace.
01:38:29
◼
►
Yes, there are ways.
01:38:30
◼
►
You can obviously, you can quit the Finder.
01:38:32
◼
►
That's a thing you can do pretty easily.
01:38:34
◼
►
And you can run another app instead of the Finder.
01:38:35
◼
►
But lots of other apps, especially in the olden days,
01:38:38
◼
►
maybe less now, but like would send Apple events
01:38:40
◼
►
to the Finder to have it do something.
01:38:42
◼
►
They just expect the Finder to be there
01:38:43
◼
►
and they expect the Finder to be the thing
01:38:45
◼
►
that they talk to do to file managers.
01:38:46
◼
►
So if you try to use a third party one,
01:38:49
◼
►
you are swimming against the tide.
01:38:51
◼
►
Lots of things in the system will try to relaunch the Finder
01:38:54
◼
►
or try to do things with the Finder,
01:38:56
◼
►
and Pathfinder is not the Finder.
01:38:57
◼
►
I don't use a Finder alternative partly for that reason
01:39:01
◼
►
and also partly because Pathfinder,
01:39:03
◼
►
which is I think the best Finder alternative,
01:39:05
◼
►
is an extremely powerful browser-style file manager.
01:39:09
◼
►
I don't want a browser-style file manager.
01:39:11
◼
►
If I wanted one, Pathfinder's there and you can use it.
01:39:13
◼
►
You can use it in addition to the Finder,
01:39:16
◼
►
which if you want a better, cooler browser
01:39:18
◼
►
that does more stuff, just run Pathfinder all day,
01:39:20
◼
►
but then also run the Finder
01:39:21
◼
►
and just don't open any windows in it.
01:39:23
◼
►
I want a spatial Finder.
01:39:24
◼
►
Nobody really makes one of those.
01:39:25
◼
►
And even if they did,
01:39:27
◼
►
like part of the benefit of the Finder that I wanna see
01:39:30
◼
►
is it has to be the actual Finder, the default one,
01:39:33
◼
►
the one that everybody uses
01:39:35
◼
►
and not some third party thing
01:39:36
◼
►
that I'm constantly trying to run
01:39:37
◼
►
but being chucked back into the other one.
01:39:39
◼
►
So the answer is no, I don't use it,
01:39:41
◼
►
but Pathfinder is super cool.
01:39:42
◼
►
You should check it out.
01:39:43
◼
►
It may appeal to you,
01:39:44
◼
►
but keep in mind that you will be fighting
01:39:46
◼
►
against the entire operating system
01:39:48
◼
►
and the entire Apple corporation
01:39:50
◼
►
that wants you to just use the Finder.
01:39:51
◼
►
(both laughing)
01:39:54
◼
►
- All right, Yanda G. Streit,
01:39:56
◼
►
Swift can be used in the command line
01:39:57
◼
►
and I expect that you can also use it for automation
01:39:59
◼
►
like what people do with Python.
01:40:01
◼
►
I also read that you apparently can also run Swift
01:40:03
◼
►
with Linux and Windows.
01:40:04
◼
►
Do you guys have experience in using Swift
01:40:06
◼
►
for other purposes in creating iOS and macOS apps?
01:40:09
◼
►
- I do a little bit.
01:40:12
◼
►
My bespoke, I'll call it a script,
01:40:14
◼
►
although it's probably more of a command line app,
01:40:16
◼
►
that I use to file away my pictures,
01:40:19
◼
►
that is a Swift command line app.
01:40:21
◼
►
That's the only thing I can think of
01:40:23
◼
►
off the top of my head.
01:40:24
◼
►
Swift, you know, the Latner,
01:40:27
◼
►
I think on this very program, Latner has said,
01:40:29
◼
►
and he's certainly said in other places
01:40:30
◼
►
that he envisioned Swift to, you know,
01:40:33
◼
►
its goal is world domination.
01:40:34
◼
►
So you can use it, you know,
01:40:36
◼
►
for super important low level stuff
01:40:39
◼
►
and you can use it for scripts.
01:40:40
◼
►
And yes, one could use Swift for that sort of a thing,
01:40:45
◼
►
but I wouldn't say it's terribly well positioned
01:40:48
◼
►
for that sort of a thing,
01:40:49
◼
►
since it really is designed to be compiled
01:40:52
◼
►
and it just doesn't feel to me like that's the right fit.
01:40:57
◼
►
That's just my experience.
01:40:59
◼
►
Again, like a command line app is a little bit different,
01:41:00
◼
►
but for like something more along the lines
01:41:02
◼
►
of what I would turn to like Python
01:41:04
◼
►
or I guess if I was an old man, Perl,
01:41:07
◼
►
or if I really liked weird technology, PHP,
01:41:11
◼
►
you know, I could use one of those things.
01:41:14
◼
►
And honestly, if it were me,
01:41:16
◼
►
if I wasn't gonna use like Bash
01:41:17
◼
►
or just a FishScript or something like that,
01:41:19
◼
►
then I would probably turn to Python myself.
01:41:21
◼
►
Marco, what's your thoughts on this?
01:41:23
◼
►
- I pretty much agree.
01:41:24
◼
►
Swift, while I'm developing an appreciation for it
01:41:28
◼
►
as I use it more and more in my app development,
01:41:32
◼
►
what you want out of that kind of language,
01:41:35
◼
►
out of like a command line utilities kind of language,
01:41:38
◼
►
is a little more quick and dirty of a style of a language.
01:41:42
◼
►
And Swift is so rigid and unforgiving.
01:41:46
◼
►
The type strictness, I can understand the value of it
01:41:50
◼
►
when building like a larger app for public distribution.
01:41:54
◼
►
For something like a shell script
01:41:56
◼
►
or something that has a quick little command line utility,
01:41:59
◼
►
Swift is just too cumbersome and too picky.
01:42:02
◼
►
The other thing I would say about Swift
01:42:03
◼
►
is that its string handling sucks.
01:42:05
◼
►
I kind of can't believe that a language developed
01:42:09
◼
►
so recently has such bad string handling.
01:42:13
◼
►
- All right, now hold on, hold on.
01:42:15
◼
►
Let me quickly jump in.
01:42:17
◼
►
First of all, string handling sucks in Swift.
01:42:20
◼
►
Absolutely right.
01:42:21
◼
►
I couldn't agree more.
01:42:22
◼
►
But I think the reason is because it's too academic
01:42:24
◼
►
and it tries to be too pedantically correct
01:42:28
◼
►
in too many cases, and that's at the cost
01:42:30
◼
►
of an easy to use API surface.
01:42:32
◼
►
Or just an easy to use API.
01:42:35
◼
►
So I understand why it sucks, and I agree with you it sucks.
01:42:38
◼
►
I agree with you it shouldn't suck.
01:42:40
◼
►
But there is at least a reason behind it,
01:42:43
◼
►
but it still totally sucks.
01:42:45
◼
►
- Yeah, and there's so much of modern programming
01:42:50
◼
►
is string processing in many ways.
01:42:54
◼
►
String processing is just everywhere.
01:42:55
◼
►
That's why it's so generally good and friendly
01:43:00
◼
►
in most web development languages,
01:43:02
◼
►
because the web uses tons of string processing,
01:43:04
◼
►
and modern programming in general
01:43:06
◼
►
uses tons of string processing.
01:43:07
◼
►
And when you're dealing with command line stuff,
01:43:09
◼
►
you're probably dealing a lot of string processing.
01:43:11
◼
►
That's why Perl is so often used in this way,
01:43:13
◼
►
'cause Perl, for all of its weird little faults,
01:43:17
◼
►
it's pretty good at string processing.
01:43:19
◼
►
Python, from what I understand,
01:43:21
◼
►
I don't have any experience with Python, really.
01:43:23
◼
►
But I understand it's pretty good at it too.
01:43:25
◼
►
And Swift is just terrible at string processing.
01:43:27
◼
►
It's just so cumbersome to use with strings.
01:43:31
◼
►
And it seems like the API was designed,
01:43:33
◼
►
as Casey said, for academic perfection,
01:43:36
◼
►
rather than the actual practical needs
01:43:39
◼
►
of most programmers doing string processing.
01:43:41
◼
►
So for those reasons, it's just,
01:43:44
◼
►
I could use Swift for this kind of thing,
01:43:47
◼
►
but other tools are usually better,
01:43:49
◼
►
and I will reach for them almost every time
01:43:51
◼
►
in this kind of context.
01:43:52
◼
►
- So I'm gonna agree with your conclusion,
01:43:54
◼
►
but not for the exact reasons that you stated.
01:43:57
◼
►
So the main problem that Swift has as a kind of like,
01:44:01
◼
►
have you used it for something that's not an iOS
01:44:03
◼
►
or a Mac OS app?
01:44:04
◼
►
Like the type strictness is an issue, right?
01:44:06
◼
►
Like that's just the type of language it is.
01:44:09
◼
►
But most of the things you do from like, you know,
01:44:14
◼
►
like just a command line program
01:44:17
◼
►
or something that's not a GUI app or whatever,
01:44:18
◼
►
or just basic scripting,
01:44:20
◼
►
you only ever really need to deal with like one or two types.
01:44:24
◼
►
You need to deal with string, which we've talked about
01:44:26
◼
►
and I'll get back to in a second,
01:44:27
◼
►
and then some kind of numbers, right?
01:44:29
◼
►
Or if you wanted, you can just treat the numbers of strings
01:44:31
◼
►
and have some convertible thing
01:44:33
◼
►
that works in some scripting mode or whatever.
01:44:35
◼
►
That's basically it,
01:44:36
◼
►
like especially in one off little scripty things,
01:44:38
◼
►
you're not defining a bunch of new types and whatever.
01:44:40
◼
►
And like, if you just deal with the built-in types
01:44:43
◼
►
and easy conversion between them,
01:44:45
◼
►
even if you get into things like URLs and dates,
01:44:48
◼
►
you're probably okay with the type,
01:44:51
◼
►
like the type system is not gonna kill you, right?
01:44:52
◼
►
What's gonna kill you is the API.
01:44:55
◼
►
And actually, before I get to that,
01:44:57
◼
►
it's not the compiled nature either.
01:44:58
◼
►
Perl is a compiled language as well.
01:45:00
◼
►
Having a compilation phase is fine,
01:45:02
◼
►
as long as that compilation phase is fast enough.
01:45:04
◼
►
Perl's compilation phase is so fast,
01:45:06
◼
►
people don't even know it exists,
01:45:07
◼
►
but Perl is a compiled language.
01:45:09
◼
►
It goes through your whole program,
01:45:10
◼
►
loads all of it and all the files that it includes
01:45:13
◼
►
and all the other things,
01:45:14
◼
►
and has a compile phase in which it compiles it
01:45:16
◼
►
before it runs it.
01:45:17
◼
►
It's a little more complicated than that,
01:45:19
◼
►
but it is not an interpreted language
01:45:20
◼
►
where it goes a line by line
01:45:21
◼
►
and doesn't even know what the next line's gonna be
01:45:23
◼
►
before it executes it, it compiles it.
01:45:25
◼
►
So being a compiled language is no barrier to this.
01:45:28
◼
►
I'm assuming Python and PHP are similar in that way
01:45:31
◼
►
that they have a compile phase.
01:45:32
◼
►
Swift has a compile phase.
01:45:33
◼
►
You can write a command line Swift thing,
01:45:37
◼
►
and when it runs with the little, you know,
01:45:39
◼
►
hash exclamation point, whatever, user bin Swift,
01:45:42
◼
►
it compiles it on the fly for you and runs it.
01:45:44
◼
►
You don't have to compile it and make a C program
01:45:46
◼
►
and make your a.out executable and run that.
01:45:49
◼
►
It does it for you, right?
01:45:50
◼
►
So that's not the barrier.
01:45:52
◼
►
The real barrier is its API is not good
01:45:55
◼
►
for those common things that I just said,
01:45:57
◼
►
strings, dates, URLs,
01:45:59
◼
►
and it's not because they're like,
01:46:01
◼
►
oh, they're academically correct and it's a hard problem.
01:46:03
◼
►
I will point to Perl.
01:46:05
◼
►
Perl has academically correct string handling.
01:46:07
◼
►
- I know, right? - Right, yeah.
01:46:09
◼
►
Perl has academically correct string handling
01:46:11
◼
►
with all the Unicode crap in it, and it is complicated,
01:46:14
◼
►
and if you care about the nuances of Unicode normalization
01:46:18
◼
►
and all that stuff, you can do that all in Perl,
01:46:21
◼
►
and fast, by the way, but if you don't care about it,
01:46:25
◼
►
Perl's API and interface to dealing with strings
01:46:27
◼
►
does not make you care about it,
01:46:29
◼
►
and Swift's API makes you not only have to care about it,
01:46:32
◼
►
like it just shoves it in your face.
01:46:34
◼
►
We were just talking in the chat room,
01:46:34
◼
►
the thing we were talking about in the Slack is,
01:46:36
◼
►
I wanna extract a substring from a string.
01:46:38
◼
►
Swift's API is defined a substring type
01:46:41
◼
►
that is not a string, and because Swift is type safe,
01:46:44
◼
►
you can't take a substring and pass it to a function
01:46:46
◼
►
that wants a string because this is a substring.
01:46:47
◼
►
You have to construct a new string
01:46:49
◼
►
by using the string constructor on the substring
01:46:50
◼
►
you just got from a string.
01:46:52
◼
►
Nobody expects that. (laughing)
01:46:54
◼
►
Nobody expects that to happen,
01:46:55
◼
►
and it's not the biggest deal in the world.
01:46:56
◼
►
It's like, oh, once you just know that, you just do it.
01:46:58
◼
►
It's like, yeah, but it's inconvenient.
01:47:00
◼
►
That throws the type system in my face
01:47:01
◼
►
in a way that I don't want to, or just,
01:47:04
◼
►
I mean, regular expressions are coming to Swift,
01:47:05
◼
►
see the Swift forums and the discussion of it.
01:47:07
◼
►
I participated in a little bit trying to say that,
01:47:10
◼
►
like, the Perl motto from ages ago,
01:47:13
◼
►
easy things should be easy, hard things should be possible.
01:47:15
◼
►
Easy things are not easy in Swift,
01:47:17
◼
►
it's not because it's a compiled language,
01:47:19
◼
►
it's not because it's a type safe language,
01:47:20
◼
►
it's because the API is to do easy things is not easy.
01:47:25
◼
►
Like, it's not convenient, right?
01:47:26
◼
►
It's not like, I'll just do the first thing I think
01:47:29
◼
►
and it'll probably work.
01:47:30
◼
►
If you have never programmed in, like,
01:47:33
◼
►
if you program just in one of these language
01:47:34
◼
►
and you hop into PHP and you hop into JavaScript
01:47:36
◼
►
or you hop into Perl, you're gonna guess right,
01:47:39
◼
►
like, more than 50% of the time
01:47:41
◼
►
about how to do stuff related to strings.
01:47:44
◼
►
Or if you don't, you just look it up and it's like,
01:47:45
◼
►
oh, they spelled it a little bit differently.
01:47:47
◼
►
None of that knowledge transfers to Swift.
01:47:49
◼
►
You're like, how the hell do I find, you know,
01:47:52
◼
►
do I replace a substring in a string?
01:47:53
◼
►
How do I construct a URL and get its components?
01:47:56
◼
►
It was just today a big proposal and say,
01:47:58
◼
►
oh, by the way, if you pass a string
01:48:00
◼
►
to the URL constructor, if you just did URL double quote
01:48:04
◼
►
and then, like, a string, because of the, you know,
01:48:06
◼
►
a string convertible thing that they built in or whatever,
01:48:09
◼
►
even if it's like http colon slash slash triple w
01:48:12
◼
►
dot apple dot com, it'll construct a file URL for you
01:48:16
◼
►
out of that because the string got literal converted
01:48:20
◼
►
to a file URL and then that file URL got passed
01:48:22
◼
►
to the constructor, right?
01:48:24
◼
►
And so they wanna make a change.
01:48:25
◼
►
Hey, if I pass http, like, shouldn't it just look
01:48:28
◼
►
at the http and realize this is not a file URL?
01:48:30
◼
►
And that's the change they're proposing.
01:48:32
◼
►
That means for years now, this behavior has gone on.
01:48:35
◼
►
If you were doing a script, you never want that to happen.
01:48:38
◼
►
You don't wanna be surprised by stuff like that.
01:48:40
◼
►
Swift just does not have an API that lends itself to,
01:48:44
◼
►
let me just write 15 lines of code
01:48:45
◼
►
and not be surprised, right?
01:48:47
◼
►
And arguably, all those same things make it more annoying
01:48:50
◼
►
to use in quote unquote real apps too,
01:48:52
◼
►
but it's more tolerable in real apps because it's like,
01:48:54
◼
►
well, this is a more serious endeavor.
01:48:56
◼
►
I should think more about my types or whatever.
01:48:57
◼
►
When you're doing a one-off script,
01:48:59
◼
►
it's not that you don't wanna deal with the types at all
01:49:01
◼
►
or anything like that.
01:49:02
◼
►
You just want the obvious thing to work
01:49:04
◼
►
and you want easy things to be easy
01:49:05
◼
►
and that's where Swift is falling down
01:49:08
◼
►
as a scripting language.
01:49:09
◼
►
And then the final thing on that is all three of us,
01:49:10
◼
►
I think, well, maybe not Casey, no, probably still Casey.
01:49:14
◼
►
I think we all know some other language
01:49:18
◼
►
better than we know Swift that is better at this job.
01:49:21
◼
►
Marco knows PHP better than he knows Swift.
01:49:23
◼
►
I know Perl better than I know Swift.
01:49:25
◼
►
Maybe Casey knows Python or something better
01:49:27
◼
►
than he knows Swift for these purposes.
01:49:29
◼
►
- Casey's using C# for all of his shell scripts.
01:49:31
◼
►
- Or C#, like the thing is--
01:49:33
◼
►
- PowerShell, baby.
01:49:34
◼
►
- When you wanna bang something out
01:49:36
◼
►
and you're an experienced programmer
01:49:38
◼
►
who has a deep experience with even just one language
01:49:41
◼
►
that is vaguely suited to the task,
01:49:43
◼
►
it is so much more efficient to just say,
01:49:44
◼
►
even though there's a better tool for this job,
01:49:46
◼
►
I know this tool like the back of my hand.
01:49:48
◼
►
So I'm gonna ignore the supposedly better tools
01:49:50
◼
►
and just bang out what I know will work.
01:49:51
◼
►
It's why my stupid CMS site generator is written in Perl
01:49:55
◼
►
and why Marco's is written in PHP.
01:49:57
◼
►
'Cause those are the languages we know best
01:49:58
◼
►
and we could bang it out in that.
01:49:59
◼
►
We don't have to think about it
01:50:01
◼
►
and it works fine for that purpose.
01:50:03
◼
►
- Yeah, and that's why for a lot of things,
01:50:05
◼
►
I'll turn to Python, which I know okay.
01:50:08
◼
►
If it were an actual spoken language,
01:50:10
◼
►
it would probably be a bit of a stretch
01:50:12
◼
►
to say I am conversational in Python,
01:50:14
◼
►
but I feel like that's kind of where I'm at.
01:50:17
◼
►
But I would turn to Python for these sorts of things,
01:50:19
◼
►
even though I don't know it super well,
01:50:21
◼
►
but because it feels like a much better tool
01:50:23
◼
►
for the job than Swift would be.
01:50:25
◼
►
- Thanks to our sponsors this week,
01:50:27
◼
►
Squarespace, Mac Weldon and Linode.
01:50:30
◼
►
And thanks to our members who support us directly.
01:50:32
◼
►
You can join at atp.fm/join.
01:50:35
◼
►
We will talk to you all next week.
01:50:38
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:50:40
◼
►
♪ Now the show is over ♪
01:50:43
◼
►
♪ They didn't even mean to begin ♪
01:50:45
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:50:47
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:50:48
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
01:50:49
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:50:51
◼
►
♪ John didn't do any research ♪
01:50:53
◼
►
♪ Marco and Casey wouldn't let him ♪
01:50:56
◼
►
♪ 'Cause it was accidental ♪
01:50:57
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:50:58
◼
►
♪ Oh, it was accidental ♪
01:51:00
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:51:01
◼
►
♪ And you can find the show notes at atp.fm ♪
01:51:06
◼
►
♪ And if you're into Twitter ♪
01:51:09
◼
►
♪ You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S ♪
01:51:14
◼
►
♪ So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M ♪
01:51:20
◼
►
♪ Auntie Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C ♪
01:51:25
◼
►
♪ U-S-A-C-R-A-C-U-S-A ♪
01:51:27
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
01:51:29
◼
►
♪ It's accidental ♪
01:51:31
◼
►
♪ They didn't mean to accidental ♪
01:51:34
◼
►
♪ Accidental ♪
01:51:35
◼
►
♪ Tech podcast ♪
01:51:37
◼
►
♪ So long ♪
01:51:40
◼
►
- So I've been alluding to,
01:51:42
◼
►
or kind of casually hinting at,
01:51:44
◼
►
I had a Synology adventure a little while ago,
01:51:47
◼
►
which I'd like to,
01:51:49
◼
►
VibraSlap, which I'd like to briefly--
01:51:51
◼
►
- It's only the first mention, Marco, come on.
01:51:53
◼
►
- Well, it was a little one.
01:51:53
◼
►
- It's an hour over here.
01:51:56
◼
►
- All right, so in any case,
01:51:58
◼
►
so again, I have an eight bay Synology.
01:52:00
◼
►
The first two drives are time machine rate zero.
01:52:03
◼
►
The remaining six drives are Synology hybrid RAID,
01:52:06
◼
►
which is their version of some other flavor of RAID.
01:52:09
◼
►
I forget which one.
01:52:10
◼
►
- It's like what Drobos do.
01:52:11
◼
►
Like, it's their version of,
01:52:13
◼
►
it's like, it's a dynamically expendable,
01:52:16
◼
►
like kind of software-based RAID
01:52:18
◼
►
that abstracts away a lot of the details.
01:52:21
◼
►
It's not like a straight RAID one,
01:52:23
◼
►
or straight RAID five, or anything like that,
01:52:25
◼
►
but it's just like their dynamic thing
01:52:27
◼
►
that has some redundancy, depending on how you set it,
01:52:29
◼
►
and is kind of managed in software,
01:52:31
◼
►
so it can be expanded over time without breaking
01:52:33
◼
►
the whole array.
01:52:35
◼
►
- And speaking of that, Marco, quick aside,
01:52:36
◼
►
what file system did you pick for your Synology?
01:52:39
◼
►
- I did what it did by default through the iOS app,
01:52:42
◼
►
which I was curious what the heck it did,
01:52:43
◼
►
'cause I was intending RAID one,
01:52:45
◼
►
'cause I got two identical disks.
01:52:47
◼
►
- Not RAID, the file system.
01:52:49
◼
►
- Oh, I have no idea.
01:52:51
◼
►
Whatever's--
01:52:52
◼
►
- BTR now, or butter, or whatever it's called, isn't it?
01:52:54
◼
►
- That's what I was gonna suggest,
01:52:55
◼
►
that if you didn't pick that,
01:52:56
◼
►
now is a good time to maybe change that decision,
01:52:58
◼
►
'cause BTRFS is, I think, the best choice.
01:53:01
◼
►
- All right, I'll check it.
01:53:02
◼
►
I mean, whatever was default,
01:53:04
◼
►
and I thought it was interesting that by default,
01:53:06
◼
►
it just did SHR as the RAID setup,
01:53:09
◼
►
so even though I only had two disks, it didn't even ask me.
01:53:11
◼
►
It just set them up as SHR, which in theory,
01:53:16
◼
►
I was a little bit upset by that,
01:53:18
◼
►
'cause I'm like, RAID one would be faster, probably,
01:53:21
◼
►
but I also think in the grand scheme of things,
01:53:24
◼
►
I'm probably only ever gonna have two drives in here,
01:53:26
◼
►
and I might want expansion.
01:53:28
◼
►
- And you don't wanna have to match the size.
01:53:30
◼
►
- Exactly, so I might want the expansion down the road,
01:53:33
◼
►
so I figure that's fine for my purposes here.
01:53:36
◼
►
- So in my RAID zero array of two drives
01:53:40
◼
►
that is used only for time machines--
01:53:41
◼
►
- It's pronounced RAID-O.
01:53:43
◼
►
- RAID-O, my RAID array (laughs)
01:53:46
◼
►
with the two drives, one of them was dying,
01:53:49
◼
►
and that wasn't great, but wasn't the biggest deal,
01:53:52
◼
►
because it's my time machine volume.
01:53:55
◼
►
I don't use it for anything else.
01:53:57
◼
►
It's not the end of the earth.
01:53:58
◼
►
So I tried to play this smart instead of fast and loose,
01:54:02
◼
►
and I decided to wait until my periodic time comes
01:54:06
◼
►
when I back up the entire Synology
01:54:09
◼
►
to a single physical external drive,
01:54:11
◼
►
which then gets plugged into my Mac mini server
01:54:14
◼
►
so it can go up to backplays.
01:54:16
◼
►
So I waited the week and a half,
01:54:17
◼
►
'cause I do this every couple of weeks,
01:54:18
◼
►
and I waited the week and a half or whatever it was
01:54:20
◼
►
until the backplays backup was completed,
01:54:23
◼
►
and then I set about to replace drive two.
01:54:27
◼
►
This is a three terabyte drive.
01:54:29
◼
►
I think it had been in the machine
01:54:30
◼
►
since when I got it in 2013.
01:54:33
◼
►
It's not unreasonable that it was time to replace it,
01:54:35
◼
►
and since I don't need a ton of time machine space,
01:54:38
◼
►
and I don't really care that much about time machine,
01:54:41
◼
►
to be honest, I don't know that I've used it
01:54:42
◼
►
in literally years, but I like having it
01:54:45
◼
►
as yet another backup.
01:54:45
◼
►
So I bought basically the exact same drive to put back in,
01:54:50
◼
►
and so I got another three terabyte drive to put in.
01:54:52
◼
►
- They still sell those?
01:54:54
◼
►
- I don't even remember how much it was,
01:54:55
◼
►
to be honest with you, but yes, they do.
01:54:57
◼
►
So I think to myself, well, I'm pretty sure
01:55:02
◼
►
this DS1813+ can hot swap.
01:55:05
◼
►
Why don't I just do that?
01:55:06
◼
►
I always used to shut it down when I was doing a drive swap.
01:55:08
◼
►
- What do you think, hot swapping to you just means
01:55:11
◼
►
I didn't have to turn the power off to the thing
01:55:13
◼
►
to take out the drive, but it's RAID zero.
01:55:14
◼
►
Like, you can't take out one of the drives.
01:55:18
◼
►
- No, no, totally.
01:55:19
◼
►
I knew I was gonna have to,
01:55:20
◼
►
I knew I was gonna lose everything.
01:55:21
◼
►
I knew I was going to have to recreate the volume
01:55:23
◼
►
and so on and so forth,
01:55:24
◼
►
but could I just hot swap the physical drive
01:55:27
◼
►
and have the Synology understandably freak out
01:55:29
◼
►
and then tell it, you know, just put everything back, please.
01:55:33
◼
►
- To be kinder to the thing, what I would have done
01:55:34
◼
►
is destroyed the volume, destroyed the RAID zero volume,
01:55:37
◼
►
and just said, now you just have two empty disks,
01:55:39
◼
►
and then if you wanna do a hot swap experiment,
01:55:41
◼
►
leave the thing on and yank out the drive.
01:55:42
◼
►
- That, see, this is why you're smarter than me,
01:55:44
◼
►
because that didn't even cross my mind.
01:55:46
◼
►
It didn't even cross my mind.
01:55:47
◼
►
- Well, one question I have is like,
01:55:50
◼
►
how do you know which volume Synology's OS is installed on?
01:55:54
◼
►
- You know, I agree, agree.
01:55:56
◼
►
- You can look this up, but yeah.
01:55:58
◼
►
My main question is how do you make sure
01:55:59
◼
►
that the one you're yanking out is the bad one,
01:56:01
◼
►
because they all look the same from the front.
01:56:03
◼
►
- Well, so they actually--
01:56:04
◼
►
- I start numbering from left to right or right to left.
01:56:06
◼
►
- They number from left to right.
01:56:06
◼
►
- Is it drive zero or drive one?
01:56:09
◼
►
- They number from left to right,
01:56:10
◼
►
and there is actually a feature,
01:56:11
◼
►
yeah, I forget where it is.
01:56:12
◼
►
In, I think, Storage Manager,
01:56:14
◼
►
there's a feature that where they,
01:56:15
◼
►
where you can go and, I think they call it identify,
01:56:18
◼
►
and you can have it identify that drive.
01:56:21
◼
►
- It'll play music on the voice coils inside the hard drive.
01:56:23
◼
►
- No, stop it.
01:56:24
◼
►
So it plays the Imperial March, right?
01:56:28
◼
►
- You know, it should play,
01:56:29
◼
►
(imitates music)
01:56:31
◼
►
- Yeah, right, it'll play the washing machine,
01:56:34
◼
►
or the freezer thing.
01:56:35
◼
►
So no, what it does is it turns the light
01:56:37
◼
►
on that particular drive amber instead of green,
01:56:40
◼
►
and because at this point it was dying, it was not dead.
01:56:43
◼
►
So it was still showing green.
01:56:45
◼
►
- What made you think that it was dying, by the way?
01:56:47
◼
►
- Because it said, I got emails about it
01:56:50
◼
►
literally every day or two saying--
01:56:51
◼
►
- What did it say?
01:56:52
◼
►
- I forget, I could dig it up, but I think it--
01:56:54
◼
►
- 'Cause I get periodic emails about my drive help too,
01:56:56
◼
►
and it kind of like--
01:56:57
◼
►
- I think it said it kept reconnecting
01:56:59
◼
►
or something like that, I forget exactly what it was.
01:57:00
◼
►
- Oh, all right, I haven't gotten that message.
01:57:02
◼
►
- So anyway, so I decided to hot-swap,
01:57:04
◼
►
and you two are 1,000% correct,
01:57:07
◼
►
I should have destroyed the volume first,
01:57:08
◼
►
and so on and so forth, but I didn't, I just hot-swapped it.
01:57:11
◼
►
And everything took a dump, everything took a real big dump.
01:57:14
◼
►
So I tried to do that, and suddenly the web interface
01:57:19
◼
►
kind of stops responding, which was not entirely surprising,
01:57:22
◼
►
but I'm thinking this is not good.
01:57:24
◼
►
- Was it the OS drive?
01:57:26
◼
►
- Maybe, I don't even know, to be honest with you.
01:57:28
◼
►
Still to this day, I don't know.
01:57:29
◼
►
- This would be a thing to check before, again,
01:57:31
◼
►
before yanking drives out of your computer.
01:57:32
◼
►
- Perhaps, perhaps.
01:57:33
◼
►
- Also, probably not the best to have the OS
01:57:35
◼
►
on a RAID 0 volume.
01:57:36
◼
►
- Well, how do we even know how to move it?
01:57:38
◼
►
Like, even if that's true, listener, if that's true--
01:57:41
◼
►
- It's not about moving it, it's about not creating,
01:57:44
◼
►
like when you do volume groups,
01:57:45
◼
►
don't create any new volumes in the volume group
01:57:49
◼
►
that has the OS on it.
01:57:50
◼
►
- No, I mean, it's a bit late for that now,
01:57:52
◼
►
isn't it, gentlemen?
01:57:53
◼
►
So anyway, so everything takes a dump.
01:57:56
◼
►
The web interface isn't really working,
01:57:59
◼
►
or it's sort of working.
01:58:00
◼
►
It's like I'm on a 1400 baud modem.
01:58:04
◼
►
Occasionally it'll work a little bit,
01:58:05
◼
►
then just kind of crash, or I shouldn't say crash,
01:58:07
◼
►
it just doesn't really do anything.
01:58:09
◼
►
I try entering my username and password,
01:58:11
◼
►
and that doesn't really work.
01:58:13
◼
►
And so eventually I was able to request a shutdown.
01:58:17
◼
►
I forget how I did that, I don't remember
01:58:19
◼
►
if it was through the web,
01:58:20
◼
►
or by like an iPhone app or something.
01:58:22
◼
►
And it started to shut down, but it didn't succeed
01:58:25
◼
►
after literally like 15 minutes,
01:58:26
◼
►
and so I said, "Ah, screw it,
01:58:27
◼
►
"I'm just gonna force the damn thing to shut down,"
01:58:28
◼
►
which I know I shouldn't do, but at this point,
01:58:30
◼
►
I don't have a Synology for all intents and purposes,
01:58:32
◼
►
so I need to do something.
01:58:34
◼
►
So I force a shutdown, and I boot it back up,
01:58:38
◼
►
and it's very, very upset,
01:58:41
◼
►
and it wants me to enter a username and password,
01:58:44
◼
►
and I try entering my username and password,
01:58:48
◼
►
and it doesn't accept,
01:58:49
◼
►
I try to enter my username and password, and it accepts it,
01:58:52
◼
►
but it refuses to accept my one-time password,
01:58:55
◼
►
you know, the little six-digit thing.
01:58:57
◼
►
And I try that, and I try that, and I keep trying that,
01:59:00
◼
►
and it's still not working,
01:59:01
◼
►
and now I'm running out of chances
01:59:02
◼
►
before it like locks my entire account out.
01:59:05
◼
►
So then I think to myself, all right,
01:59:06
◼
►
well, surely I will try to use,
01:59:09
◼
►
all right, surely I can use the admin account,
01:59:12
◼
►
you know, the out-of-the-box administrative account,
01:59:13
◼
►
which I know I've changed the password for,
01:59:15
◼
►
and there's only three or four options of passwords
01:59:16
◼
►
I would likely use for it, so I'll try that,
01:59:20
◼
►
and that doesn't work.
01:59:22
◼
►
So let's recap.
01:59:23
◼
►
I have a Synology that has eventually booted itself,
01:59:25
◼
►
and it is literally beeping
01:59:27
◼
►
because, you know, the volume has crashed,
01:59:29
◼
►
so it wants my attention.
01:59:30
◼
►
It is booted, but I can't log in
01:59:32
◼
►
using the login I usually use.
01:59:34
◼
►
I don't think I have any other administrative logins
01:59:36
◼
►
except the actual administrator account,
01:59:39
◼
►
which it won't accept the password for that either,
01:59:41
◼
►
so I literally cannot log into my Synology.
01:59:44
◼
►
What do you do?
01:59:45
◼
►
- Quick real-time follow-up, by the way,
01:59:46
◼
►
about the operating system.
01:59:48
◼
►
Someone in the chat room said,
01:59:49
◼
►
and I just did a quick Google
01:59:50
◼
►
that found at least some supporting evidence
01:59:52
◼
►
that Synology stores the OS
01:59:54
◼
►
and all of the data related to the OS
01:59:56
◼
►
on all of the hard drives.
01:59:57
◼
►
- Oh, that's cool.
01:59:58
◼
►
- So as long as you have one disk that still works,
02:00:01
◼
►
you should, in theory, have your OS in all your settings.
02:00:04
◼
►
That does not necessarily mean
02:00:05
◼
►
that KC hasn't hosed himself.
02:00:06
◼
►
He'll continue your story.
02:00:07
◼
►
- All right, so Pop Quiz hotshot.
02:00:09
◼
►
You can't log in with your username password
02:00:11
◼
►
and one-time password.
02:00:12
◼
►
You can't log in with an administrator account.
02:00:14
◼
►
What do you do?
02:00:16
◼
►
- You have physical access to the machine.
02:00:17
◼
►
You can boot into, like, the firmware mode
02:00:19
◼
►
and go into, essentially, single user mode,
02:00:21
◼
►
you know what I mean?
02:00:22
◼
►
- Yeah, isn't there, like, a reset hole in the back?
02:00:24
◼
►
- There is a reset hole.
02:00:25
◼
►
- No, just single user mode.
02:00:27
◼
►
Like, back in the old days, in regular Unix,
02:00:28
◼
►
you could boot into single user mode
02:00:30
◼
►
where it's not in multi-user,
02:00:31
◼
►
and the one, because you have physical access,
02:00:32
◼
►
and there's some, you know, thing you have to press
02:00:34
◼
►
to make that happen,
02:00:35
◼
►
but then you are essentially root on the thing,
02:00:37
◼
►
and you can fix whatever's broken.
02:00:39
◼
►
- So what you can do, and double-check me on this
02:00:42
◼
►
if you're listening, for the love of all that is good
02:00:44
◼
►
and holy, double-check me on this,
02:00:45
◼
►
'cause I Googled to figure out the right answer,
02:00:46
◼
►
but there is a reset hole with a button within it
02:00:50
◼
►
in the back of the machine,
02:00:51
◼
►
and if you, I forget the details,
02:00:52
◼
►
but it's, like, if you press it for a small amount of time,
02:00:55
◼
►
it will basically reset, like, the administrative password
02:00:59
◼
►
or something like that, if I remember right,
02:01:01
◼
►
but if you hold it for a really long time,
02:01:03
◼
►
it will straight-up reset everything,
02:01:05
◼
►
and if you hold it long enough,
02:01:07
◼
►
it will straight-up reset everything
02:01:08
◼
►
to the point that you lose your data,
02:01:09
◼
►
so there's, like, two or three stages of reset,
02:01:12
◼
►
and so I did the littlest bit of reset,
02:01:16
◼
►
and that got me into the administrator account
02:01:19
◼
►
with the default password.
02:01:20
◼
►
- That just, like, resets the wallpaper.
02:01:22
◼
►
- Yeah, basically.
02:01:23
◼
►
No, I got into the administrator account
02:01:25
◼
►
with the default password,
02:01:26
◼
►
and then I was able to restore my account,
02:01:30
◼
►
which, well, I shouldn't even say restore it.
02:01:31
◼
►
I think I know what the problem is.
02:01:33
◼
►
What would cause my username and password,
02:01:37
◼
►
which is one of the few passwords I have memorized,
02:01:40
◼
►
and my one-time password,
02:01:41
◼
►
which is stored in one password, not work?
02:01:43
◼
►
What would cause that to not work?
02:01:45
◼
►
- Date and time, Rowan?
02:01:47
◼
►
- I think so.
02:01:48
◼
►
I think the date and time got out of whack,
02:01:50
◼
►
and that's why the one-time password wouldn't work,
02:01:53
◼
►
because if my limited understanding
02:01:54
◼
►
of how one-time passwords work
02:01:55
◼
►
is they have some sort of seed value,
02:01:57
◼
►
jump in, gentlemen, when you're ready,
02:01:58
◼
►
they have some sort of seed value,
02:01:59
◼
►
and they compare the time to some reference
02:02:02
◼
►
and can compute via algorithm
02:02:04
◼
►
what these six digits should be at this time,
02:02:07
◼
►
and if the time isn't agreed upon
02:02:09
◼
►
between your device and the device you're trying to log into,
02:02:12
◼
►
that will cause it, so whoopsie-dupsie.
02:02:15
◼
►
So I did a update to the time.
02:02:17
◼
►
I was able to get back into my account,
02:02:18
◼
►
and then when I was putting everything back
02:02:20
◼
►
and trying to restore everything,
02:02:22
◼
►
it was very, very angry at me
02:02:25
◼
►
that the administrative account was enabled at all,
02:02:28
◼
►
because to their eyes, that's very ripe
02:02:31
◼
►
for a dictionary attack or something like that,
02:02:34
◼
►
and so they really, really, really don't want you
02:02:37
◼
►
to have the administrative account active,
02:02:39
◼
►
but the problem is when you're a single-person company
02:02:41
◼
►
and a single-person Synology user,
02:02:43
◼
►
I only had the administrative account,
02:02:45
◼
►
which I surely had disabled,
02:02:47
◼
►
because I did what they told me to do, and my own account.
02:02:49
◼
►
It's not like I could go to Bob down the hall and say,
02:02:51
◼
►
"Hey, Bob, can you log in with your administrative account
02:02:54
◼
►
"and get us all squared away again?"
02:02:56
◼
►
So I think that really hosed me,
02:03:00
◼
►
but the good news is I was able to not only
02:03:04
◼
►
get my normal account back with very minimal loss of data
02:03:09
◼
►
or settings or anything like that,
02:03:11
◼
►
but I was eventually able to set up
02:03:13
◼
►
a administrative account that is not my normal account,
02:03:16
◼
►
that does not use the username admin,
02:03:18
◼
►
and I was able to set all that up,
02:03:20
◼
►
and I have a ridiculously strong password for that
02:03:22
◼
►
that's stored in 1Password,
02:03:24
◼
►
but I decided not to turn on the one-time password for that,
02:03:26
◼
►
so this way I will never have that particular problem again.
02:03:31
◼
►
But for a brief window of time, again,
02:03:34
◼
►
I thought that I had lost everything on my Synology,
02:03:38
◼
►
which was not delightful, and thankfully,
02:03:41
◼
►
I had been smart enough to wait until everything
02:03:43
◼
►
was confirmed to be in back place
02:03:44
◼
►
before I did all this dance, but wow,
02:03:47
◼
►
that was a very tense two hours
02:03:49
◼
►
while I was trying to figure all this out,
02:03:50
◼
►
and it was not fun.
02:03:53
◼
►
- Your impulse control when it comes to technology,
02:03:55
◼
►
like when we're talking to you now,
02:03:56
◼
►
you're like, oh yeah, no,
02:03:57
◼
►
I probably should have destroyed the volume first,
02:03:58
◼
►
but in the moment, you're so excited about hot-swapping,
02:04:00
◼
►
you're just like, let's see what happens
02:04:01
◼
►
when I yank this out. - Yeah, why not, man?
02:04:03
◼
►
- You're not projecting forward in time and saying,
02:04:05
◼
►
well, what's the worst that could happen
02:04:07
◼
►
if you yanked this out, and you almost saw
02:04:08
◼
►
what the worst thing could happen if you yanked it out.
02:04:11
◼
►
- So yeah, so now drive two is back up and running,
02:04:14
◼
►
and volume, the time machine volume is back up and running.
02:04:17
◼
►
I did lose, of course, everything on that volume,
02:04:18
◼
►
but that's fine, but yeah, what a nightmare.
02:04:21
◼
►
It was a self-created nightmare,
02:04:22
◼
►
but what a nightmare that was,
02:04:23
◼
►
and I was so thankful that Synology's have this
02:04:26
◼
►
like multi-tier reset paradigm,
02:04:28
◼
►
wherein I could get myself logged in
02:04:30
◼
►
because I have physical access to the machine,
02:04:32
◼
►
I could get myself logged in
02:04:33
◼
►
without having to reset all my settings and all that jazz.
02:04:35
◼
►
- Yeah, physical access usually means
02:04:37
◼
►
that if there's working stuff inside there,
02:04:40
◼
►
you can get to it, that's the whole point of physical access.
02:04:41
◼
►
It's something you have to hold down or press or do,
02:04:44
◼
►
but you can get back in.
02:04:45
◼
►
And if this, I'll have to look more into this,
02:04:48
◼
►
but like the idea that Synology puts the OS
02:04:50
◼
►
in every single drive is interesting and clever
02:04:52
◼
►
and other reason too, like how they do things.
02:04:54
◼
►
I was just thinking of that with Marco,
02:04:56
◼
►
was like, oh, I'd only need,
02:04:57
◼
►
I just have two drives or whatever.
02:04:58
◼
►
Well, especially if you just have a single volume,
02:05:02
◼
►
you're like, if one of them goes bad, who cares?
02:05:04
◼
►
I'm assuming you'll have to reset up your whole OS, right?
02:05:07
◼
►
'Cause if you destroy that volume and it's the only volume,
02:05:10
◼
►
you've also destroyed all your settings and stuff,
02:05:11
◼
►
if like a disk went bad,
02:05:12
◼
►
like if you RAID 0 it is what I'm saying.
02:05:15
◼
►
Like, 'cause you don't have a second place for the OS to be,
02:05:18
◼
►
you have a single RAID 0 volume,
02:05:21
◼
►
maybe it's on all these individual hard drives, I don't know.
02:05:23
◼
►
I don't know quite how it works, but I would not try.
02:05:26
◼
►
Like, I always feel better having,
02:05:29
◼
►
you know, at least three drives.
02:05:31
◼
►
I know you bought a four bay thing,
02:05:33
◼
►
but you only put two drives in it.
02:05:34
◼
►
Maybe you got a small third one and throw it in there
02:05:37
◼
►
just to be like your OS backup boot drive
02:05:40
◼
►
so that the other two can be totally hosed
02:05:41
◼
►
and you won't lose all your settings.
02:05:42
◼
►
Then again, you probably don't have too many settings,
02:05:43
◼
►
but it is annoying to go back through
02:05:45
◼
►
and reset up the time machine volume
02:05:46
◼
►
and set up quotas for people or whatever you did, you know?
02:05:49
◼
►
- Actually, I couldn't even do the quotas
02:05:50
◼
►
because the quota for TIFF's computer
02:05:52
◼
►
needs to be eight terabytes,
02:05:54
◼
►
and the most it'll let you enter is four terabytes,
02:05:56
◼
►
presumably for some kind of integer limit somewhere.
02:05:59
◼
►
But so like, I literally, so I'm just like,
02:06:01
◼
►
well, I guess I just won't use quotas then.
02:06:04
◼
►
- Yeah, I don't use quotas.
02:06:05
◼
►
And like, it takes care of itself
02:06:07
◼
►
and that whoever's filling the thing,
02:06:08
◼
►
you'll see their poor Mac say cleaning up,
02:06:10
◼
►
like, or free, you know, freeing up space.
02:06:13
◼
►
Like, if you look in the time machine menu bar,
02:06:14
◼
►
it says like, freeing up space,
02:06:15
◼
►
and it will do that for a long time.
02:06:17
◼
►
But what it's doing is saying,
02:06:18
◼
►
oh, well, the disk is running out of room,
02:06:20
◼
►
and I'm in the middle of doing a backup,
02:06:22
◼
►
and I know that I can't do my next backup
02:06:24
◼
►
unless I clean up space,
02:06:25
◼
►
and it will delete like a whole bunch of old backups.
02:06:27
◼
►
And they'll all just fight with each other
02:06:29
◼
►
over that last scrap of space.
02:06:30
◼
►
It also is a good idea to change,
02:06:33
◼
►
like Synology will email you
02:06:35
◼
►
if like a volume is getting low in space,
02:06:37
◼
►
and you can choose what threshold it will email you.
02:06:40
◼
►
If you have the threshold set like too high,
02:06:42
◼
►
like if you have it set,
02:06:43
◼
►
please email me when you have 20% space left,
02:06:45
◼
►
you will be emailed forever, right?
02:06:47
◼
►
'Cause time machine will never leave 20% free.
02:06:50
◼
►
But time machine will leave 8% free.
02:06:53
◼
►
So if you set the threshold to be like 5%,
02:06:55
◼
►
then you'll only get the email
02:06:56
◼
►
when like something has gone wrong with time machine,
02:06:59
◼
►
it hasn't been able to free up space or something.
02:07:02
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- Yeah, that's the only reason
02:07:03
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I ever want the Synology to email me
02:07:05
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is a hard drive has died.
02:07:08
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I want to know that.
02:07:09
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I want no other emails from this device that is--
02:07:12
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- You enjoy like the health report ones
02:07:14
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that tell you how many bad sectors all your hard drives have?
02:07:16
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- I turn those off after a while,
02:07:18
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or they stop working, one of those.
02:07:19
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Somehow they were turned off.
02:07:21
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- 'Cause that gives you the pre-warning of like,
02:07:23
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if you get an email and said there's one bad sector, right?
02:07:25
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And then the next week you get an email
02:07:26
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and says there's 10 bad sectors,
02:07:28
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maybe start shopping for a new hard drive, right?
02:07:30
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But you know, I still get the emails, I think monthly.
02:07:33
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And like I've had a hard drive
02:07:34
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that's had one bad sector for like six years.
02:07:36
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And that's fine.
02:07:37
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Like hard drives have bad sectors
02:07:39
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and it just keeps emailing me, I just look at that number.
02:07:40
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And if it's still one, I'm like, everything's fine.
02:07:45
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If it's 110, I need a new drive.