460: Desktop Laptop


00:00:00   It's the lead up to the holidays and there's a lot of projects in the air, you know, like there's there's not only you know

00:00:06   the typical holiday stuff of like better make sure we get gifts for everybody

00:00:10   we also

00:00:12   Unfortunately, I have been unable as of yet to convince my extended family

00:00:19   That adults no longer need presents at Christmas

00:00:22   In addition to gift-giving you have stuff like sending out Christmas cards, which fortunately my lovely wife Tiff does the vast majority

00:00:29   Of the work for that. So that's that's good. But just like this so we just pause there

00:00:34   Yeah

00:00:35   I hope that you appreciate the amount of freaking labor that takes because I am the de facto

00:00:41   Christmas card person in my family and it is

00:00:46   So frustrating and takes so much more time and money than it should all for as Aaron is off to remind me people to look

00:00:54   At and go oh lovely and then throw in the trash. I think I really really love the tradition

00:00:59   I really do and I find it very enjoyable and a lot of fun

00:01:01   to think about what I want to send but the actual sending and like

00:01:06   Working with these god-awful websites that that are that you use to like generate these cards

00:01:12   I mean, I maybe Tiff actually puts everything together in like Photoshop or something like that. I'm not at that advanced

00:01:16   No, no, she she uses the god-awful websites and that that's part of the frustration and of this time of year

00:01:21   You know because like because of course, you know that the first few days of December

00:01:25   everyone goes through it about the same time into these websites crumble under the load and you know, you can imagine a

00:01:30   Fairly mediocre web app even in the best of days is not the best user experience, right?

00:01:35   but to to add to the mediocre and crappy user experience also like

00:01:40   server lag and delays and occasionally lost work because something timed out like

00:01:45   It's infuriating and so like this year

00:01:48   I actually so last year I put in a reminder for myself

00:01:51   to in like mid-november like really start getting the process going because my typical mo is that I just plain don't think about it until

00:01:58   December and then I'm like crap. I got to get the show on the road and so like mid-december

00:02:03   I'm like going through pictures trying to figure out the ones I like

00:02:05   But then I realized I didn't have like a good hero picture, you know

00:02:09   Like a good picture of all of us first good day to do it was this past weekend

00:02:12   And so then we have to go get everyone dressed up and do the picture and blah blah blah and now I'm like delayed getting

00:02:17   Everything to the printer and then the printer is gonna take like a week or two to print it and then it doesn't arrive here

00:02:21   Until like four days before Christmas and I like put all these undue goals

00:02:25   I guess on myself and I always fail every year and so then I get frustrated and of course because I'm a turd I take

00:02:31   It out on Aaron and then Aaron's like why are you getting frustrated? This is stupid

00:02:34   We just everyone's going to put these in the trash in a week. Anyway, why do we care like well, yes, but but it's so enjoyable

00:02:39   Of course, he looks at me. She's like is it now? So

00:02:43   It's it's I love it and I hate it so much

00:02:46   So all of that is many many words to say I hope that you do indeed appreciate the work that TIFF is surely putting in

00:02:51   For this because it is such a pain in the tuckus

00:02:52   I think this is a good time for me to announce that the Syracuse family will not be sending cards this year

00:02:58   So you do in particular when you don't get a card from us. Don't be insulted. We're not sending them to anybody

00:03:03   Why because we didn't get our acts together soon enough and we have too much other crap

00:03:07   So it's like we made I mean, I made a different call than the list family, but we're in a similar situation

00:03:13   We're just like nope can't do it

00:03:15   So if you're listening to this and you normally get a card from me when you don't get one this year. Don't be insulted

00:03:20   We just know not sending them out this if you'd like to see a picture of us

00:03:23   Let me know and I can but we can borrow us look the same

00:03:26   Sorry Marco like 30 minutes ago. You were trying to make a point. I totally do. I'm sorry. I don't remember it was anymore

00:03:32   Oh, I think the point was the holidays are stressful. Yes, and many projects are going

00:03:38   We're not going in my case. Yeah

00:03:41   Yeah

00:03:41   I was I was saying to the boys before the show that we just picked up our Christmas tree and we and we are a believer

00:03:46   In the live Christmas trees here in the list household and this is unremarkable in and of itself

00:03:52   But this is Penny's first Christmas with a Christmas tree because we got her we adopted her

00:03:57   Just before New Year's last year and my limited understanding is that it is probably not good for her to chew on

00:04:04   Said Christmas tree, which is probably as a dog just yes. Sorry penny penny my dog. That wasn't clear at this point

00:04:11   Yeah, no, it's it's our third child penny

00:04:14   Anyways, it's going to be an adventure keeping her from just eating every bit of that tree

00:04:19   And so we're gonna see how that goes

00:04:20   Ask me about this next week when I'm when the tree has been moved outside or something

00:04:24   I think it'll be fine cats are the biggest jerks with Christmas trees dogs usually good about it

00:04:28   Well cats are jerks in general. So I mean, what are you gonna do? So I already said that we totally failed

00:04:33   did not finish on the

00:04:36   the holiday cards

00:04:37   Mm-hmm Christmas tree weren't ready to give up on that one

00:04:41   but we did wait and wait too long and I went to get a tree and it was

00:04:45   Slim pickins literally like all the trees were super skinny. Well, that's fine. It's Charlie Brown tree then

00:04:51   No, they weren't like it's not that they weren't like, you know the density of

00:04:55   Foliage and branches was fine. They were just instead of being triangular shape

00:05:01   They were more like tube shaped and so they didn't get fatter as they went down

00:05:06   So it was like it was like a pipe cleaner like a big bushy pipe cleaner and I asked the person like what's the deal?

00:05:12   Why are all the trees skinny this year?

00:05:14   These are the trees that we got so teenagers. Yeah, and our problem is we have really low ceilings in our ancient

00:05:20   New England house here

00:05:21   So even the ones that were like nine feet tall that would no way they would fit in our house

00:05:25   Even those didn't get wide at the bottom, but I had to pick one that would fit

00:05:28   You know, I had to pick like a seven foot tree that would fit in our tiny little house and those just look like pipe

00:05:33   Cleaners, so I got the best one I could

00:05:35   And we put it in the garage as we really do because waiting to the weekend to bring it in

00:05:38   And it's sitting there in the garage looking like a sad pipe cleaner

00:05:41   And my wife just couldn't take it and she said, you know what I'm going out and getting a better tree

00:05:47   She went and got a better tree and it is better she did find a better tree at a place

00:05:53   It's like close to her work, but not really close to us. So now we have two Christmas trees a reject one

00:05:58   And a better one. So that's kind of how the holidays are going for us

00:06:02   I mean, yeah, where does the reject one live in the house? They're both in the garage right now

00:06:06   The reject one is laying on the floor in the garage and the oh the good one is in the in the stand in water

00:06:12   So it's trying to keep it alive. So you're just slowly starving the the bad

00:06:16   I don't I don't know what we're gonna do with that. We just we're having difficult

00:06:20   I'm I'm not gonna get into all my difficulties

00:06:22   There will be an after show update freezer update for people who want to know

00:06:25   But there is much more going on than just that and maybe it'll wait for a rectus episode in the future

00:06:30   Oh god, no, you got to give us that content man. Come on. It's too much. It's too much

00:06:35   There's too much you don't understand. Oh god, so wait

00:06:38   So I thought my impression was there was almost not enough room in your garage for air much less a tree

00:06:45   Even even more so to Christmas trees. Did you move the cars outside for a while?

00:06:50   Oh the cars haven't been in the garage for like a year, you know

00:06:53   As soon as the weather gets warm again, my wife takes over the garage and fills it with junk and usually each winter

00:06:58   It's a battle to get rid of enough junk that the car can fit back into it

00:07:02   But that is not happening anytime soon for reasons that I will mention in the after show. Oh my oh

00:07:07   My you know a little birdie is sending me picture of your reject tree and it is

00:07:13   It is not great job

00:07:16   But it was like and that was one of the best ones he's like it healthy branches from top to bottom

00:07:21   It's just shaped like a pipe cleaner and they were all like that. It's not just like this one

00:07:25   They were all like that. He said nine ten-foot trees that just did not get wider at the bottom

00:07:29   I'm like what is going on? Oh my god. This tree is sad. Oh dear God

00:07:34   Why did why would you buy this at all?

00:07:35   Like I think if I saw it was the best one and you don't understand the place I go to get the trees is like

00:07:41   a nightmare like just it's a parking lot that is too small with people all fighting with each other's right get parking spots and

00:07:46   stalking other parking spots to get in there and just

00:07:48   Go somewhere if this was the best one I would go somewhere else and if I couldn't find anywhere else I would get a fake

00:07:53   Tree that this year because that this is not isn't the fake tree is not an option

00:07:57   This tree incur would have would have been okay

00:08:00   Because I mean again, you just want it to be healthy like the big other big problem is usually they don't leave you're starving it though

00:08:06   No

00:08:07   Usually the one thought the branches lower are just like either gone or pathetic that they can't hold anything

00:08:12   This thing had sturdy branches from top to bottom

00:08:14   So among the skinny trees that would fit in our house

00:08:17   This was the best one and the problem is we went too late

00:08:20   Like you need to go like basically the day after Thanksgiving and we waited too long because then our acts together

00:08:24   So we had slim pickins you literally

00:08:27   Let's do some follow-up a few months ago, I think it was we were talking about ubiquitous breach

00:08:35   So to recap ubiquity is like the fancy person

00:08:39   home networking equipment

00:08:41   Fancy person you heard me and I would say they're really nerdy and also like very often used in businesses networking equipment

00:08:50   Fine, whatever like I said fancy person

00:08:52   But anyway, I would say almost nobody whoever touches ubiquity gear would be considered a fancy person by almost anybody else

00:09:00   Good god, this shows going off the rails quick. All right, this conversation is quickly becoming a confrontation

00:09:06   All right, so ubiquity had a breach several months ago and turns out whoopsie-dupsies. It was from the inside

00:09:11   So we have a post on bleeping computer calm and I don't remember where I saw this. I apologize

00:09:18   I think it was in a slack somewhere but Nicholas sharp who is who is posting

00:09:22   opposing excuse me as an anonymous company whistleblower planted damaging news stories falsely claiming that the theft of data of

00:09:30   Ubiquity data had been by a hacker enabled by a vulnerability in the company's computer systems among other things

00:09:35   This is a quote sharp applied one-day life cycle retention policies to certain logs on AWS

00:09:41   Which would have the effect of deleting certain evidence of the intruders activity within one day court documents read

00:09:46   After his extortion attempts failed sharp shared information with the media while pretending to be a whistleblower and accusing the company of downplaying the incident

00:09:53   So he leaked the data and then got

00:09:55   Pretended to be ticked off about the fact that the data was leaked

00:09:58   It is well truly evil a very ingenious plot and and it would be much funnier if it wasn't so gross

00:10:06   So yeah, that ingenious because it seems like he got caught pretty easily here. No, it's a tushé and fairly quickly as well

00:10:11   I mean, this is only a few months ago, right? That's true. But anyway, I

00:10:15   Admire the hustle if if nothing else and actually I do think I admire nothing else about this plan

00:10:20   But nonetheless, you know, it was all kidding aside

00:10:24   it was a little bit alarming because even though I

00:10:26   Genuinely do use and have paid for some but not all of eros stuff in my house and I genuinely do like it

00:10:32   If I ever got to a point that I didn't want euro anymore

00:10:36   I would probably turn to Ubiquity and when when all of this happened

00:10:39   I kind of was like, oh, I don't know if I would ever go to that either but now we know what their their

00:10:44   Issues were all personnel related things from the inside

00:10:48   So whoopsie-dupsie, but the data was leaked like because he was inside the company

00:10:53   He did have access to the data and he did leak it, right? Yes

00:10:55   I believe that and and and it also like a couple of current and former employees

00:11:00   I've seen like comment here and there anonymously and it sounds like this, you know

00:11:04   This wasn't just like some low-level engineer. This was like a pretty high ranking person in the company and

00:11:10   Apparently people did not enjoy working with him on many levels. And so it sounds like Ubiquity might you know

00:11:18   Maybe their security is not as bad as as we all thought it might have been back then

00:11:21   But they they definitely have some personnel issues for sure at least they had and so they're they're not doing everything, right?

00:11:29   However, I am still very happily using all their Wi-Fi here

00:11:31   Yeah, setting aside whether there is an actual criminal inside your organization

00:11:35   Like their reports are like hey everyone complained about this person and nothing ever happened in general

00:11:39   That's the sign of an organization

00:11:41   That's not healthy because no matter how super important somebody is or no matter what they may have done in the past that

00:11:47   Has earned them a reputation as a good employee who was involved with successful projects or whatever if lots and lots and lots of people

00:11:53   Complain about them. It's worth considering maybe that employee is not

00:11:59   As valuable to the company as you think

00:12:02   We are sponsored this week by

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00:12:33   That's it and you just swipe swipe swipe and you can go through and sort and organize your photo library so easily

00:12:39   It makes organizing photos fun and not honestly the chore that it usually feels like with the built-in tools if I'm honest and

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00:12:53   So when you organize using slide box, you're organizing your actual photo library on your phone

00:12:58   Just like you see it in the photos app and your organization then of course sinks. So if you you know

00:13:03   Pick through and delete all the crappy photos and everything. That's all synced to all your devices

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00:13:26   (music)

00:13:28   Speaking of things that are not as valuable as I thought

00:13:33   Hey, so my desk has been rearranged again. Oh, yeah, I'd like to know why is there still a large monitor on it?

00:13:41   Depends on your definition of large because it ain't 27 inches. I could tell you that so is it 32?

00:13:47   No, it's not 32. No, I would have been I would have been much less suave about breaking that news to you

00:13:53   So finally calling 4k casey lists. Yep. That's right. What did you say?

00:13:58   So my LG 5k which in the time that it worked I loved so dearly

00:14:04   Does that sound like any white car that you've once heard about on this very program when it worked it worked great

00:14:08   but anyways

00:14:10   5k the 5k

00:14:12   Seems to have gotten worse and worse and so it was taking more and more cajoling to get it to actually display video

00:14:20   On on the screen, but what was fascinating though is in as much as I'm laughing and trying to poke fun at both myself

00:14:28   And this monitor it was a very puzzling predicament that I was in in the sense that was it

00:14:33   No, don't just hear me out ten out of ten times

00:14:36   I would plug in my laptop to the 5k the laptop would get power from the 5k every time no matter what without fail

00:14:45   Eight out of what nine out of ten times who would get video on they would display video on the 5k then like

00:14:51   Seven out of ten times then like a couple days later four out of ten times and now it's to the point of like

00:14:58   basically never happens and I didn't understand and I still don't

00:15:02   completely understand how that could be but

00:15:05   Iden Warsaw

00:15:08   Warsaw ski on Twitter it gave me an excellent theory and this is through his own terrible lived experience

00:15:15   So I didn't writes. I have an LG 5k that has this issue as well

00:15:18   The port is wearing down and one of the high-speed connectors isn't making a good contact

00:15:25   Cool power delivery and power does so it charges

00:15:30   I opened it up a while back and reflow the connector which fixed the issue temporarily, but it started up again

00:15:35   So it took a little bit of back and forth because I'm a dumb dumb and didn't understand what he was trying to say at first

00:15:40   But basically there are several of course, you know thinking about this deeper

00:15:44   There are many different pins in the USB C connection

00:15:46   right and some of them are for power and some of them are for data and what I didn't was saying was that

00:15:50   The power pins the way that they are physically connected to the PC board on on the on the LG 5k

00:15:59   Those tend to be alright like they don't tend to like have any sort of physical issues

00:16:04   But the high-speed data pins like to just kind of fall off after a while or lose their physical connection

00:16:10   And so that means that I can get power but I can't get video which is exactly the the thing I'm seeing right now

00:16:16   So I didn't wrote a little more so that this is with a picture though. It'll be in the show notes

00:16:21   That that's the Thunderbolt 3 connector on the LG 5k PCB

00:16:25   I I didn't says I wasn't able to get good pictures with my phone due to the angle

00:16:28   But the far pins if you look at this picture that transfer Thunderbolt 3

00:16:32   We're not making good contact and cause signal integrity issues on my monitor due to the connector pulling off the board

00:16:36   And I should have mentioned and I forgot that during the days when it went from 8 out of 10 times to 5 to 2 out

00:16:42   Of 10 times I noticed that if I jiggled the USB C connector

00:16:45   Occasionally I would get it to work and then all of a sudden it would just die and stop working

00:16:49   But power would still be working. Nothing else would so everything that I know

00:16:53   Says that I didn't hit the nail on the head and this is the this is the real issue here

00:16:58   So I have done a chat day before yesterday. I believe was me was late yesterday

00:17:03   I did an online chat with LG and said I would like to get an RMA please because I would like to get the serviced

00:17:08   It took just a couple minutes of back and forth and then they said alright

00:17:11   It will be $150 to have you send it to us and then we will repair it and send it back

00:17:17   Now they didn't want to take my credit card over the chat because they shouldn't and I wouldn't have let them anyway

00:17:22   And they're supposed to call me to get my credit card number which hasn't happened yet

00:17:26   And so I'm kind of wondering where that whole phone call is sitting but nonetheless

00:17:31   Hopefully I will get the 5g repair the excuse me the LG 5k repaired and then

00:17:36   My computing life will be good again

00:17:38   But in the meantime, I had to figure out well

00:17:41   What the hell do I do because using just a 14 inch screen every day all day?

00:17:44   Not the most desirable thing in the world and I literally do not have any other monitors in the house. So

00:17:50   He sent a message as sent a text to a good friend of mine

00:17:55   Who is that my last job job who happens to be the IT director at that job job was like hey, man

00:18:01   Do you happen to have any of those LG fork?

00:18:04   No

00:18:04   These are not ultra fine mind you with the LG 4k sitting around that maybe I could like buy one off of you

00:18:08   Because I kind of need something to hold me over for a few weeks and he said, you know what don't worry about it

00:18:12   I'll just loan you one for a little while because we're not using them

00:18:14   And so in out of the goodness of his heart and I mean that genuinely

00:18:17   I ran to my old office today for the first time in three years and I picked up a 24 inch LG 4k monitor

00:18:23   Which is what I'm currently using on my desk right now. So I am back in 2018, baby. Well

00:18:29   Even 24 inches even in 2018 was small

00:18:32   yes, and actually it's funny because I wrote a blog post about how much I hate the complete dearth of

00:18:38   monitor options for max these days or particularly retina monitors and

00:18:42   Somebody pointed out to me and they're right that strictly speaking my own metrics say that this screen isn't really enough

00:18:49   It's a long and involved story that I'm already running way too long

00:18:53   But suffice to say there's a certain like pixels per inch number that you should really hit in order to be retina

00:18:57   And even though I do view this screen that I have in front of me, which is 24 inches at 4k

00:19:02   I do view it as retina in the sense that from for my eyes and from the distance at which I sit

00:19:07   I can't see pixels, but it's only like 180 ppi and strictly speaking. It should be like 220 to be true to form retina

00:19:14   So even this screen which I do

00:19:16   Endorse isn't strictly speaking one of these what is it for options that are on the market right now?

00:19:22   So or that are one of the four options that is retina

00:19:26   Capable retina friendly whatever on the market right now. It is truly ridiculous. So Apple, please for the love of God

00:19:31   can I have something that is in between the LG 5k which

00:19:34   hashtag mark I was right is maybe not the best thing in the entire world or and the the utterly ridiculous

00:19:42   Pro display XDR which I should add by the way the morning that the LG 5k really gave up the ghost

00:19:48   I think a stiff if somebody had coughed behind me

00:19:51   That would have been a stiff enough breeze to get me to buy an old either the XDR

00:19:55   But thankfully cooler heads prevailed and I didn't and and that is the truth

00:19:59   I'm not trying to spring anything on you to you. Like I really haven't bought one

00:20:02   I really don't intend to and and part of that is because it occurred to me that two of these LG 4k's which again

00:20:08   I'm borrowing one, but you know if I were to buy two of them, it would be $600 all in

00:20:12   So for the price of the stand of the XDR you could get three of them. Yes, exactly

00:20:19   No, you're exactly right. And I know you're I know you the point you're making and I agree with you

00:20:22   Yes, it's it and that's what I came down to you. Like I was seriously about to commit to buying an XDR

00:20:26   And then it occurred to me for six thousand dollars like oh, let me rephrase I guess for six hundred dollars

00:20:33   I can get two 4k screens which without question is nowhere near as good

00:20:37   But is it is an XDR ten times better than two of these four K's? I don't know about that

00:20:45   It is certainly ten times more expensive, but is it ten times better? I don't know five times better probably ten

00:20:50   I don't know about that. So that's why I didn't remind me of this in a month when I end up buying one

00:20:55   But sitting here now

00:20:57   My hope is I will use this borrowed 4k to get me by and then in a month or maybe two

00:21:02   I will finally have the 5k and be living the dream that I was for about a week before it died

00:21:07   I love that that's the dream like that's the best I got Marco. I'm a simple man

00:21:11   It's you got you got a dream a little bit dream a few inches bigger

00:21:14   All right moving right along

00:21:21   This this picture of the connector

00:21:23   Hopefully Marco will make this the chapter art, but it's like it's the printed circuit board

00:21:28   Green in this case and then just coming out of the printed circuit board, you know perpendicular to it is the USBC connector

00:21:37   Mm-hmm, and it's just soldered right to it. Like yep

00:21:40   That seems like a bad arrangement

00:21:44   Seems so doesn't it? Um, I mean in general like it we complain about this and laptops for years. It's usually a good idea to have

00:21:51   like a

00:21:52   separate smaller printed circuit board

00:21:54   to just host the connectors for anything that has connectors whether it's laptop with its ports on the sides or a monitor with ports on

00:22:01   the back and then have like a ribbon cable or something flexible that connects to the main printed circuit board because

00:22:07   The connectors can wear out because they're like a mechanical part things are going into them and out of them and you know

00:22:12   People yanking things and things bend and get pulled or whatever

00:22:15   And so if the connector goes bad what you want to happen is oh

00:22:17   I'll just replace this whole little sub assembly with this little printed circuit board with the three connectors on it

00:22:22   I'll just rip out that ribbon cable throw this in the garbage get a new one of those plug it in

00:22:25   Without having to replace or any re solder anything on the board or anything like that

00:22:29   And it also provides a form of strain relief like the connectors can be on a little thing that is

00:22:34   Independent and is bolted directly to the back of the display. So it's you know fixed in place

00:22:39   Rather than you know in this arrangement. I'm assuming the openings on the back of the monitor support these connectors a little bit

00:22:45   So they can't move around too much

00:22:47   But depending on how precisely engineered the plastic is and how well the printed circuit board is supported inside there apparently

00:22:55   It's not constructed well enough

00:22:57   But like this just seems like a design that it was made to eventually fail because it just just you know

00:23:02   And it makes me worry about how the connector is in the back of my pro display XDR connector

00:23:07   They just sticking out of the server printed circuit board like that

00:23:10   like I already dread taking that connector in and out and I tried it to never do it, but

00:23:15   Anyway this well the XDR connectors are like like the the holes are part of the solid metal casing like they it's those

00:23:23   Things can't budge like I can't imagine that would be an issue

00:23:26   They're not translating

00:23:28   But if you are to if you are to bend the connector down could the inside of it tilt up while using the case as a fulcrum

00:23:33   You know what? I mean like a levering action. Honestly, I think I think those they're so rigid from the metal that I don't

00:23:39   I wouldn't worry about that too much but certainly it's worth asking

00:23:41   Yeah, anyway, I'm very careful these time

00:23:44   But this is this LG design seems just like a bad idea from the start that is sort of bound to fail

00:23:49   So if they if they fix it, they're just gonna give you a new circuit board. That's like this

00:23:52   I guess just be very very careful

00:23:54   Tell me then and make sure nothing ever pulls on the cord or yanks it or does anything bad to it

00:23:59   No, truly. I I don't know what I'm going to do specifically but like, you know

00:24:03   It's a silly example

00:24:04   I moved the LG 4k down to the screened in porch once you know

00:24:08   Just because it was a beautiful day and I wanted to have it down there in any normal situation

00:24:11   I would think a thing of it. But now once that LG if gay arrived did I say 4k minute ago?

00:24:17   I'm in 5k

00:24:17   But anyway, once that ultra fine 5k arrives back at my house after the repair

00:24:22   I will probably like super glue it to my desk

00:24:25   Super glue a cable to the back of it because my goodness, although I can't say in this picture

00:24:31   Maybe this is a smaller printed circuit board that has the connectors on it

00:24:34   It's just that's the that printed circuit board has them connected strange

00:24:37   Like no knowing you have a separate printed circuit board that the connectors are like laying down flat on it

00:24:41   Like they are in a laptop or whatever, but I guess maybe that's not possible in the back of the monitor

00:24:44   Anyway, I don't I don't want to pass any particular judgment from this very zoomed in picture

00:24:48   Except to say that apparently this is a chronic problem on the LG 5k

00:24:51   So it seems like it's not the best way to do connectors one of many chronic problems in the LG 5k is

00:24:56   Yeah, and that's that's the thing is I would love genuinely

00:25:01   I would love to have somebody go pipe up from the back of the house and say hey, did you realize the you know?

00:25:07   I don't know a sis qrstuv

00:25:09   6573 monitor exists and is exactly what you want and a lot of people have said oh, well, there here's a 4k

00:25:14   27-inch monitor that's very cheap and that's not what I want like yes want is there's a million 4k 27-inch monitors, right?

00:25:23   right and so what I if genuinely if somebody is out there listening and knows of a

00:25:28   monitor that is available in the United States today that is between 22 and 24 inches and 4k or

00:25:35   Preferably about 27 inches and 5k. Please. Let me know

00:25:39   I know and people love to reach out with like these 32 plus inch

00:25:44   monstrosities that are 5k in one in one dimension and then like I don't know 15

00:25:48   It's like 5k vertically and like 15 K horizontally like this. I'm not into that

00:25:52   I just want as close as I can get to an iMac screen without the computer behind it if you please but

00:25:58   If such a thing exists, let me know but you're behind the times

00:26:01   I was we discussed last show like I know this would be fine for your purposes like the LG 5k and this 4k

00:26:06   These are not HDR monitors. These are not mini LED. They do not have any of the the new modern specs

00:26:12   They're not high refresh. I don't think right. Nope

00:26:14   They don't have any of the modern specs that your laptop screen has so you're just looking for like

00:26:19   Oh something that will tide me over or something that you know, but you're never gonna see HDR images on these things

00:26:24   You're not gonna get 120 Hertz out of them

00:26:25   Right, so and this is this is why I think you should not get the the XDR

00:26:29   I don't think the XDR is going to be replaced anytime soon

00:26:32   I just think now it is too late to buy it and when when will it be replaced in six years?

00:26:37   Oh, so you're saying it's too late to buy it now, but it's gonna be replaced in six years. Yes

00:26:40   That's exactly what I'm saying. That's the way that's the way of the Apple monitors

00:26:44   Have you have you ever bought an Apple monitor before this is the experience right Marco and I got in just under the line

00:26:48   We bought it when it was the best option available and it was actually kind of good

00:26:52   But now that you can buy a 14-inch laptop with the screen that's better. Although way way smaller. It's too late now

00:26:57   No way no way you spend six thousand dollars on this monitor

00:27:00   You just have to wait for Apple to either put out the new big iMac with a with a cool screen and then the monitor that

00:27:06   Uses that screen or I don't know what you wait for like so I I feel for you Casey

00:27:10   But I'm glad you held strong did not buy the XDR because it is not time to buy that screen

00:27:14   It's time to wait six years for it to be refreshed

00:27:19   Okay, that's right I think for me and Casey and most normal people it is not time to buy the XDR that time passed and

00:27:27   He missed it. I agree with you

00:27:28   And the thing of it is is that a lot of people have been have said in so many words sometimes

00:27:31   Kindly sometimes not you know, what is your sanity worth?

00:27:34   And in what is you know, this would arguably help you earn more money by helping you do your job better

00:27:39   Why would you not spend that money and if it was?

00:27:42   $2,000 like I would have paid and in retrospect

00:27:46   maybe should have paid full price for an LG 5 like a new LG 5k, but

00:27:50   Even that seemed a little spendy if I could get like an XDR or something along those lines for a couple grand

00:27:57   I probably would but

00:27:59   $6,000 like I just can't I can't get to the point where I think that that is a reasonable expenditure money

00:28:06   Even if it could make even if you know printed it had a money printer on the back that printed money

00:28:10   Like I still don't know if I could do it because it's just so preposterously expensive

00:28:15   What's your vision the way it is Casey a

00:28:18   Retina like you're you're aim of like 220 points per inch or whatever. Mmm 180 or even 150 and that may be your future

00:28:26   Anyway, so the idea that you might get a 32 inch screen with like 170

00:28:30   Points per inch that may be what you want

00:28:33   Like I know a lot of I mean a lot of people as they get older and I get worse and I'm going to like 42

00:28:38   inch televisions like people you were using like 42 inch plasma TVs

00:28:41   Because it makes things bigger as in it has lower PPI right and it's larger physically speaking. So

00:28:47   You know, it'll is easy

00:28:50   It's I said, it's very not very easy, but it's easier to find 4k 27 inch monitors with HDR and high refresh

00:28:57   They're just still expensive as discussed on past shows

00:28:59   But at least they exist and having you know

00:29:02   I I've got one right here

00:29:04   I play my PlayStation on a 4k 27 inch monitor and for a while when I had like the dtk it's a little Mac mini

00:29:09   Thing I hooked it up to that and everything's bigger, right?

00:29:12   It's not as quote unquote not retina everything looks bigger like like a funhouse type thing and I don't need that right now

00:29:18   But if my vision continues to deteriorate

00:29:20   That might be the type of thing that I want

00:29:23   So by the time Apple comes out with like finally they made a monitor that's retina and it's 5k and it's a reasonable price

00:29:28   It's like yeah, but now that people's are just small for me because I'm old

00:29:31   That's probably not gonna happen to you anytime soon, but I'm probably getting close to that

00:29:35   So I'm enjoying my my retina 6k while I have it and when it's refreshed in six years

00:29:40   Maybe my eyes won't be able to see it anymore. We'll see. No, I think you're exactly right

00:29:43   I think there's that and that's part of the reason why this strictly speaking

00:29:46   Incorrect LG not ultrafine 4k that I'm looking at right now

00:29:51   Part of the reason why I think it is acceptable is because my eyes are garbage and so so for me it's like yeah

00:29:57   Whatever, it's it's good enough. I don't know. It's just it's so frustrating

00:30:01   Like we don't need to perseverate on this anymore

00:30:02   But it's just so frustrating that this is seemingly a solvable problem that Apple

00:30:09   Especially like they're they've gotten these MacBook Pros

00:30:12   so right and to have

00:30:14   No good options either first or third party like I could excuse it

00:30:19   If let's suppose that we all agree that the LG 5k ultrafine was was really truly ultrafine

00:30:25   Like it was a great monitor just for the sake of discussion then fine. I wish it was Apple branded, but okay

00:30:31   That's no big deal. But the fact that there is literally nothing on the market that I can find that is truly

00:30:37   Workable other than the XDR which is now eliminated because it's so absurdly expensive

00:30:42   Like it's such a hole in their lineup

00:30:45   And I I just I I got to assume they're gonna fill this hole at some point

00:30:49   But why is it why is this hole there? Like let's fix this please

00:30:53   This is that tweet that Tim Cook had a tweet occasionally our temp cooks Twitter account

00:30:58   Occasionally tweets things of like oh here I am at the opening of Apple Store and whatever and we love all our customers

00:31:03   blah blah and one of them was like look at these people doing creative things with our new MacBook Pros and it showed a

00:31:08   Bunch of people with MacBook Pros sitting in front of this big setup doing I don't know audio video whatever they're doing

00:31:13   So they're professionals using their MacBook Pros, right?

00:31:16   and there are a bunch of monitors attached to the MacBook Pros and none of those monitors were Apple monitors and I

00:31:20   Did a snarky quote tweeted going? Oh, I wonder why they're not using Apple monitors. Like that's because I

00:31:26   Understand where Apple's coming from and that the market is probably small, but that's true of the Mac Pro as well

00:31:30   We already had this conversation. No, not a lot of people are gonna buy the Mac Pro

00:31:33   Yes, Apple you still have to make it like even if it's a money-loser like just to have a complete lineup

00:31:37   That's to have some coherence, right?

00:31:39   Otherwise you're gonna take your best most perfectly arranged like glamour shot of people using your products in real-world situations

00:31:46   And you'd be embarrassed by things and they'd be embarrassed by the fact that there was six monitors in front of these people and none

00:31:51   Of them were Apple monitors because they didn't need XTRs and there's no other choice

00:31:54   Haha, so they're not that and the other thing the other thing they're embarrassed about is those brand new MacBook Pros with their amazing displays

00:32:01   And all the ports and everything had this giant mess of dongles coming out of the back of them because they were like

00:32:05   HDMI dongle so they could have like three HDMI monitors attached to it and everything cuz why are the monitors HDMI monitors because that's all

00:32:11   you can buy because you know, it's just I

00:32:13   You know Tim Cook probably doesn't care about these things. They're like, hey they bought Apple products

00:32:18   It's great and we love how our products integrate with their existing monitors that they use with all those stuff

00:32:23   but you know, it would be nicer if we could say look we sell the complete solution and they can use all of our stuff and

00:32:30   Apple might say well they can just buy Pro Display XDRs

00:32:33   But no one wants to waste money if you don't need a Pro Display XDR

00:32:36   If you just need a 4k size monitor Apple doesn't sell one

00:32:40   So you have to get whatever they were using in that picture and it's it's not a good luck for Apple

00:32:46   Especially in like, you know, you want them to work with other monitors

00:32:49   I'm not saying only have proprietary monitors, but in the glamour shot you want to say look if you buy all Apple stuff

00:32:54   it works all well together and

00:32:56   It's a great experience and you just can't do that to Casey's point. You made these great new laptops

00:33:01   They have places where you can connect monitors. What am I supposed to put in there besides the XDR?

00:33:04   I mean just to put things in perspective this monitor, which I'm very thankful to be able to borrow. I'm running it via DisplayPort

00:33:11   What is this like 2002?

00:33:14   It's I'm going USB C to DisplayPort because if I use HDMI, I believe it's only 30 Hertz. So I

00:33:20   Like it's fine. Everything's fine. I'm thankful for this monitor, but it's just frustrating. It's so frustrating

00:33:26   I think a few things are true at the same time, you know thing number one is

00:33:31   Yes, the XDR is absurdly expensive

00:33:35   Thing number two is yes, you should buy one

00:33:38   anyway, and thing number three is

00:33:42   What will probably actually happen is the monitors that you're juggling now whether it's the 4k's that you have now

00:33:49   The 5k if it ever comes back and if it then subsequently works after that

00:33:53   Those are two big ifs in my mind if all that happens that will probably tide you over until

00:33:59   Mid next year at which point Apple probably will release a monitor

00:34:04   Like I expect if they have a monitor project going which was lightly rumored about a year ago

00:34:10   I was supposed to come out probably at WBC this coming year

00:34:13   So or you know thereabouts so I think the this hole in their lineup, which is very big and very real

00:34:21   I think they do they did finally admit to themselves. They should fill that hole in typical Apple fashion

00:34:28   Even though this this giant like fire and the product line was there

00:34:32   They're gonna take their sweet time to fill it

00:34:34   But when they do finally fill it'll probably be fine that being said they're probably also in a similar time frame

00:34:40   going to release the larger iMac and

00:34:43   When that happens assuming that the larger iMac and the next large monitor come out in a similar time frame

00:34:50   I think you're gonna have a big decision to make

00:34:53   About whether you go for the larger iMac for your desktop needs and relegate your current laptops laptop only needs

00:34:58   that being said

00:35:00   I think you really couldn't go wrong with either of those options when they come and assuming the monitor does come

00:35:07   You know it's funny

00:35:09   I might be the only person that is that is not excited for the new 27 inch iMac or you know whatever fills that gap

00:35:16   because right now

00:35:18   Monitor accepting I know I've done a lot of you know complaining about the monitor situation especially over the last week or two

00:35:23   But monitor accepted I could not be happier with this Mac this MacBook Pro. It is so good. Oh my god

00:35:29   They're amazing software. It's a couple of software quirks here

00:35:32   And they're like the SD card reader seems to be a piece of garbage, and I'm still getting some Bluetooth wonkiness

00:35:36   But I'm pretty sure both those are software and so eventually those will get fixed

00:35:40   I have to assume and leaving that aside these laptops are so good. I'm so happy with this laptop

00:35:46   I didn't think I could be happier with a computer than I was at the iMac Pro

00:35:50   And then I got a portable iMac Pro and it turns out it's even better

00:35:53   So you're gonna be even happier with the big iMac though like I think it's a no-brainer when that happens you have a decision

00:35:57   Make the decision is you get the new iMac because the new iMac will be faster than these laptops

00:36:02   You'll know it will have a good display so that problem is solved and then your laptop continues to be an awesome laptop

00:36:07   It's just freed from the burden of having to also be a mediocre desktop for you, right?

00:36:12   It will just be a great laptop, and then you'll also have a great desktop. They're great desktops, too

00:36:17   That's the great thing about this

00:36:18   That's the thing like here's but you know iMac will be an even greater desktop because it will be less thermally constrained

00:36:23   And we'll have a bigger screen

00:36:24   The screen you know you're right the iMac will probably you know have to have the bigger screen and everything but that being said I

00:36:29   Really don't feel any constraints at least using the 16 inch as a desktop the 14 inch if you do like sustained long testing on

00:36:37   The 14 inch it does thermally throttle sooner than the 16 inch does but in practice most people aren't doing that kind of work

00:36:44   and these are like I feel like when the iMac comes out it's gonna be less of

00:36:51   like a bomb going off of joy and happiness because

00:36:54   Apples are making really great desktops for a while now

00:36:58   You know the desktops weren't on fire the way the laptops were like the desktop lineup from you know even the 27 inch regular

00:37:07   iMac before the iMac Pro the 27 inch iMac has always been a pretty great computer

00:37:12   And you know for the first entire existence

00:37:14   It's been a pretty great choice and those those have been really good especially once they you know when they went retina

00:37:19   That was like it just was so great that the 27 inch 5k iMac

00:37:22   What an amazing computer for its entire existence and then the iMac Pro took that model and made it even better and again

00:37:30   Amazing computer even though they only ever made one of them amazing computer amazing product line the new Mac Pro even though it's ridiculous

00:37:38   And no longer really knew by any stretch of the imagination

00:37:41   But the the the soon-to-be outgoing

00:37:44   John Mac Pro

00:37:46   That also amazing computer for what it is like they really have been making great desktops hell even you know

00:37:53   We mentioned last week even the Mac mini from 2018 forward has been great

00:37:58   So apples are making great desktops for years now

00:38:01   We don't we're not we weren't like as starving for great desktops from them

00:38:05   They haven't been making amazing laptops since 2016 or so like that that's been there's been all these compromises and so to finally have

00:38:15   Really freaking great laptops coming out of Apple

00:38:18   You know from last year's m1 based models and and you know making them even better now with this new line of MacBook Pros

00:38:24   Oh my god. They're so good and frankly as I mentioned in my in my kind of review episode of these

00:38:30   my desire for a desktop is lower than ever right now because

00:38:35   currently the fastest max you can buy by far our MacBook Pros and

00:38:42   So I'm extremely happy with this and using this laptop as a desktop. I

00:38:48   Really don't feel much compromise at all

00:38:51   The the only thing I feel is I think I still have to open it up to turn it on if it's powered down

00:38:56   But oh, well that never happens in practice and I don't have touch ID on my keyboard

00:39:02   But that's only because I don't have Apple's keyboard like even that problem could be solved now if I wanted to be so

00:39:07   This is just great. Like it's such an awesome

00:39:11   Computer as a laptop or as a clamshell mode desktop these things rock

00:39:17   It is nothing like previous laptops being used in this way

00:39:21   Like if you want to if you're interested in using clamshell mode or even I haven't tried side-by-side mode

00:39:26   We have laptop open but a lot of people do that. So I'm doing right now

00:39:29   There you go

00:39:29   the m1 series of laptops is so much better at either one of those than

00:39:34   The previous than any of the Intel ones and hell even the power PC ones. These are so good

00:39:39   I can't overstate how good a computer these are and how happy it makes me that

00:39:44   Finally Apple's making just kick-ass amazing laptops

00:39:49   I mean, but obviously you have a connected to an XDR

00:39:52   So you hope the the monitor problem saw quote-unquote solved case

00:39:55   He does not have one of those nor should he buy one

00:39:57   So his decision will be different than yours and honestly your decision

00:40:00   Especially if they come up with a 20 core version of the iMac you're probably gonna get that too

00:40:04   Let's be honest, although you might not because it'd be a downgrading screen size

00:40:07   So you have a more your your decision Marco is trickier because do you want to give up 6k for 5k?

00:40:13   depending on what no big the iMac screen is and so but Casey's decision is straightforward is

00:40:17   You get to use your laptop as a laptop and you get a desktop with a good screen that that's faster than your laptop

00:40:22   So it'll be straightforward for Casey when the big iMac comes out will it though because I just spent like

00:40:29   $5,000 on this laptop on the on the on the agreement with myself

00:40:33   Yeah, maybe you'll maybe maybe you'll hem and haw and wait

00:40:37   But I just feel like I've always been in the opinion that let a desktop be a desktop little laptop be a laptop

00:40:41   Don't try to use one for both if you want to spend six thousand dollars on monitor then you can be in Marco's land

00:40:47   But honestly Marco's only gonna be in that land until though something until something with a ridiculously higher number

00:40:51   Of course comes out in which case he'll jump ship to that. It would it would probably have to be a Mac Pro though

00:40:56   I wouldn't I don't think I would jump ship for an iMac because of the monitor thing, you know

00:41:01   But but I but a Mac Pro would be tempting I think or like a mini Mac Pro this half-size thing

00:41:07   We don't actually sure lineup is gonna be like but yeah

00:41:09   Yes

00:41:10   You're just waiting to see something that is appreciably faster than then what you've got and you don't have any issues right now

00:41:16   Because the laptop works great in clamshell and you already have a huge monitor

00:41:19   Well, and even like the things I would want to be faster mainly are Xcode builds

00:41:23   But I'm like even just from going from four performance course to eight

00:41:29   I'm I'm nearing that point where like things start to level off with Xcode builds of my scale

00:41:35   So I might not even need the Mac Pro when it comes out and I know everyone's gonna make fun of me for even thinking

00:41:43   That I would possibly not buy it, but I didn't buy the last one. That's true

00:41:46   Yeah, but you had a you had a 10 core iMac Pro at that point. Yeah fair enough

00:41:49   So, you know, we'll see what the the compile times are like again. You are using more Swift. So yeah

00:41:55   Don't even get them started

00:41:58   No, I think the more interesting question to me is I guess maybe a Mac Pro for Marco

00:42:03   But even even potentially more interesting is what happens if we get some sort of screaming Mac Mini that has you know, basically the 16-inch

00:42:11   MacBook Pro guts but in a Mac Mini because I think I think if I were Marco that would be pretty appealing

00:42:16   I mean you you're here. So you tell me I'm wrong, but I got to imagine. Okay, tell me why

00:42:21   Well if I didn't already own my desktop laptop

00:42:23   Maybe but but like now that I've now that I've joined the world of desktop laptop for the time being

00:42:28   It's great that if I'm going on

00:42:31   you know a

00:42:32   Trip where I want to actually bring like all of my stuff with me all of my work all of my files or just have

00:42:38   The biggest screen I can have I can bring the giant laptop and I I have my computer like

00:42:43   Really, you know if there's not significant compromises for using a laptop as a desktop

00:42:51   Then there's no reason to get a desktop. The only reason we get desktops is because usually there are huge trade-offs involved

00:42:57   When if you try to use a laptop as a desktop instead of just using a desktop, you know

00:43:02   Actual desktops are better in certain ways

00:43:04   But those ways are smaller than ever right now

00:43:09   In fact right now it's the way right now. The laptops are better than the desktops

00:43:12   Yeah, we're in this weird situation where that where the powerful desktops have not dip and have not gotten the the arm

00:43:19   System on a chip treatment so right and they will like, you know next, you know next summer next fall

00:43:24   Whatever it whenever it is that we get faster desktops, you know

00:43:27   that'll put things kind of back in order a little bit, but the

00:43:30   The laptops are are so good and so like low compromise

00:43:35   I mean for instance like typical things that that have always been problems in the past whenever I've tried to use a laptop as a

00:43:42   desktop

00:43:43   number one thing usually was thermals and fan noise and

00:43:49   With these current like with the 16 inch that is just not a thing. I haven't tried using the 14

00:43:54   I can't speak to it like as a desktop configuration, but the 16 inch

00:43:57   This thing is quieter under load full load like full sustained a hundred percent CPU load for hours

00:44:06   It's quieter than my iMac Pro was and that was a very quiet machine. That was remarkable

00:44:13   It's quieter than the Mac Pro at idle and load

00:44:18   Because the Mac Pro has like real fans that like this thing is is so quiet and runs so cool

00:44:24   Like and I can you know, I mentioned how I keep it in a vertical like a little wood clampy stand

00:44:30   With the vent the screen hinge and vent on top

00:44:33   So I can reach over and put my hand on top of the vent

00:44:35   I can feel the temperature of the air and the velocity of the air coming out of the machine

00:44:39   I almost never feel anything or I'll feel a very slight air current and it's barely warm at all

00:44:46   Or it's or it's just cool like this thing the thermals and the noise are so good on this

00:44:53   So that's you know major compromise number one with desktop laptop situations out the window. This thing is

00:45:00   silent the vast majority of the time and even again when I was able to crank it and

00:45:05   this is like the only time I've ever heard the fans was when I

00:45:10   Maxed out all of the CPU cores for multiple hours

00:45:14   Then I heard the fans barely and again, it was warm

00:45:18   You know the air coming out was warm, but it was nothing like any Intel machine of any class

00:45:24   I've ever seen so that's thing number one thing number two

00:45:27   Usually using a desktop as a laptop is a bit unreliable especially regarding sleep/wake and the connection or disconnecting of screens

00:45:35   That doesn't seem to be a thing with any of the m1 based computers the in the MacBook Air and and you know

00:45:41   These new MacBook Pros like so far the Apple silicon, you know use in clamshell or out of clamshell plugging in external displays

00:45:49   This connection or displays all that stuff seems to be way more reliable with the m1 based stuff than previous machines

00:45:56   So that compromise is also gone. I would agree with that with a small asterisk. I

00:46:01   Would when the 5k was still working rest in peace

00:46:04   I would sometimes have my computer in clamshell and sometimes not and

00:46:09   One crummy thing about the m1 max is that they will

00:46:14   Come back to like, you know, not when they're suspended, but when they're just you know, the screen is off

00:46:19   There's kind of what is this? What is the name of that when it's not fully asleep at screens off?

00:46:23   It does matter

00:46:23   anyway

00:46:24   point being when it the when screen is off and you you know hit a button in order wake the screen up the screen wakes

00:46:28   Instantly and any other monitor any other monitor? Yeah, well, maybe not the XDR actually, but any other monitor I've ever seen

00:46:35   It's you're feeling like you're waiting a year for that darn thing to turn off

00:46:39   It is remarkable how quick these m1 max wake up and and also switching resolutions like just for grins

00:46:46   I was doing that just a moment ago on this very very old LG 4k monitor and it's astonishing

00:46:53   How quickly that even this old monitor can switch resolutions?

00:46:56   It's not like the Intel days where you sit there with a you know

00:46:59   Stopwatch and wait 15 seconds for flicker flicker flicker black screen flicker flicker black screen

00:47:04   It's it's instant when you switch resolutions, which sounds like such a silly thing, but it's so delightful

00:47:10   So yes, I absolutely agree with everything you're saying

00:47:12   It is on it is

00:47:15   Unbelievable how few compromises these machines have and for that reason, I don't know again leaving the displays aside

00:47:22   I don't know John that I would get an iMac

00:47:24   Because I would feel guilty about spending another five thousand dollars or whatever

00:47:28   It would be on another computer and because I really don't have compromises on this machine

00:47:32   I really really don't it's it's remarkable

00:47:35   Yeah, and and there's so many other ones too like other compromises that you would typically get with laptops

00:47:40   You know, they're usually like the the performance ceiling would not be as high because they don't have the thermals

00:47:47   well, we'll see what chips they put in the iMac and the Mac Pro but

00:47:51   Chances are like following the current rumors and their current apparent strategy so far that they've had with the m1 series of chips and the

00:47:59   Products that feels it from them. It seems like

00:48:02   they're mostly just putting the same chips in the desktops and laptops and

00:48:07   Running them at the same or very close or close enough clock speeds and you know, so I wouldn't actually expect

00:48:15   significantly higher

00:48:17   CPU performance between the families now what they do on the GPU side that that's gonna depend, you know

00:48:23   I would suspect they would they're gonna beef that up in various ways as rumored but but like, you know

00:48:28   If it ends up that the MacBook Pro is gonna have you know, two of these chips or you know

00:48:33   one of these chips and then the Mac Pro has two of them or four of them like

00:48:37   for my purposes

00:48:40   That's gonna be mostly the same performance between the MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro most of the time

00:48:45   It's just gonna add my add more, you know parallelism for you know, very large parallel tasks

00:48:50   But if the MacBook Pro is already reaching the point of diminishing returns for Xcode builds of my size and scale

00:48:56   Then I'm not gonna really need anything faster it for a lot of a lot of cases until I start using Swift UI

00:49:01   So the real compromise for desktop laptop as far as I'm personally concerned

00:49:05   And I think this is a thing even people who are not as obsessed with this as I obviously am

00:49:09   Um is you get all your windows arranged and then you unplug the monitor and oh

00:49:13   Where does your 6k worth of windows go on your tiny little 14 inch screen?

00:49:19   Well, they go somewhere and the OS tries to do something sensible with them

00:49:22   And I think it's been better about restoring them

00:49:24   but it's still just like you've disrupted your working environment because now you need to go use your laptop and having them separate means that your

00:49:31   desktop is

00:49:32   arranged the way it is and no one's ever going to pick up your desktop and

00:49:35   Smush it screen to be smaller or remove a screen and suddenly it used to think it had two screens now

00:49:40   It just has one and that one screen is the only 14 inches instead of 6k

00:49:43   That's a disruption as far as I'm concerned

00:49:45   I did it at work for when I was still going to the office for many many years and as we said in this program

00:49:50   my solution this problem was to run my

00:49:54   the monitor attached to my

00:49:56   laptop at the exact same resolution as the monitor on my desk and I could do that because I had these

00:50:02   Pre-retina things and I ran the laptop at the the highest like whatever it is the most scaled

00:50:07   Resolution right and I just man my my desktop monitor at its native resolution was at 1920 by 1200 or whatever

00:50:14   So I was 1920 by 1200 both and I mirrored displays. So even when I yanked it out, I knew nothing moved but that

00:50:21   Was had its own compromises 1920 by 1200 on a 15 inch laptop was not great and it was kind of blurry and 1920 by

00:50:28   1200 on non-retin display

00:50:29   It was also not the best

00:50:31   But that was the compromise I chose there and I don't think you could do that in the modern world nor would I want to

00:50:36   So if I had an XDR and a laptop attached or even a 16 inch laptop and I disconnected that laptop

00:50:41   What happens to my windows? It's madness. So that's

00:50:44   That's gonna keep me on desktops forever. And I also don't like laptops

00:50:47   Oh, I mean that's that's that's a fair point. Like that is like the disruption of

00:50:52   Taking of unplugging a laptop from his desktop configuration and taking it with you. Yeah, there is a lot of disruption that happens

00:50:57   You know, maybe you'll just get external disks attached to the monitor like it's all like desktops

00:51:02   You're able to sort of build a setup with a bunch of junk and the laptop

00:51:05   Yeah, it's great that you can take it away and take it with you

00:51:07   But not everything comes with the laptop some stuff stays on the desk

00:51:10   There are utilities like there's one called stay that that purports to fix that window or even problem

00:51:15   I actually have it on my list to try it out. I haven't tried it out yet

00:51:18   Please don't send us the million apps that do this

00:51:20   We all know but but but the thing is like the OS like the OS could do this better third-party apps do it better

00:51:25   But in the end if you used to have a 6k display in a 16 inch now

00:51:28   You just have a 16 inch like something's got to give like there's no solution to this with software

00:51:34   You now have less space for your stuff, especially if you had stuff arranged carefully on both screens. Where does it all go?

00:51:40   Well, I mean, I think that can be solved with apps

00:51:43   but I think the the bigger counterpoint here is like

00:51:46   even if like this is what I think my my

00:51:51   two laptop situation is

00:51:53   actually kind of great because here's the thing if a MacBook Pro is

00:52:00   Actually a better desktop than most desktops for most people

00:52:04   Then even if you literally never move it

00:52:08   You might be better off getting it as as your desktop just in case you might need to move it

00:52:14   Sometimes if you're a Mac user, it's like you said it's the best desktop

00:52:17   You just think of it like it's like a car up on blocks in your front lawn. It never goes anywhere

00:52:20   It's the highest performance desktop that Apple sells right now

00:52:25   Yeah, but but like I think if you're if you're gonna be like super mobile back and forth all the time then yeah get a laptop

00:52:32   if you're gonna be only

00:52:35   occasionally mobile I still think this makes sense because

00:52:40   Again, like if there's not significant compromises to it not being a desktop

00:52:45   Then it being a laptop is always going to be better because even if you hardly it's it's like people who buy SUVs

00:52:52   Like well, I might go off-road sometime

00:52:53   It's like well

00:52:54   Even if you almost never do that's you still have that capability if you need it if there were no other compromises

00:53:01   You know, it's but there are the SUVs have higher rollover. I know I know I use more fuel and they're more subject to crosswinds

00:53:08   And like it just like you know, I know but but imagine if there were no if there were no compromises, right?

00:53:13   Well, but there are still are some like you it's way better than it used to be for sure

00:53:17   And Apple's line is in a weird place right now

00:53:19   but there is less space inside those things and

00:53:21   All the components are sort of wedged in there and batteries can expand and do weird stuff and there's not as much room for dust

00:53:28   To get caught and like they're doing wrong. They're way better than they used to be and right now

00:53:32   They are the best desktop that Apple sells, but I expect this to be a temporary condition

00:53:36   it just depends on how much value you put on the other stuff and and how lucky you get in avoiding the laptop whammies because

00:53:42   Like I would you know if given the choice

00:53:44   I would rather have a purpose-built desktop like an iMac then the laptop even if they were exactly the same speed and I never

00:53:51   Disconnected them just because like why do I want to pay for a monitor that I'm gonna keep folded up all the time if I?

00:53:55   Don't want to use it that way why do I want to pay to have everything?

00:53:58   Miniaturized and put in the skinniest possible case when that has no value for me

00:54:01   You think the desktops are gonna be any different given the way the iMac's are we don't know yet, but you know the 24-inch

00:54:07   I Mac that is not a it's not a different distinction, but maybe the big one it will be but yeah

00:54:13   Just like the laptops are you know they're made to be small and portable and they expect you to carry them around

00:54:17   And it's not that there are compromises, but there are different trade-offs for

00:54:22   Achieving that portability if that portability literally isn't important to you

00:54:26   Then the only reason to buy them right now is because it's the best desktop that Apple sells

00:54:29   But that won't be true for a while

00:54:30   I don't know man. I keep coming back to I think Marco's right that with so few trade-offs

00:54:36   I mean and in your you're hanging your hat on things that just really aren't true anymore like oh, there's more space well

00:54:42   It's all crazy look at the iMac 24 inch. You just said it yourself. It's all crammed into this

00:54:47   I know I'm saying right right now

00:54:49   That's this is that's the right thing to do, but I assume that I mean certainly the Mac Pro will be less compromised in terms

00:54:54   Of how much space at least I hope it will be

00:54:56   But we don't know the big iMac might be as thin as the 24 inch

00:54:59   But it might not be so we have to wait and see what Apple does with these other desktops already

00:55:02   I would say the Mac the M1 Mac mini incredibly spacious like this empty little empty space is not there right?

00:55:08   Obviously, it's not the M1 Pro and the M1 Mac's inside there, but the Mac mini is suddenly a cavernous

00:55:14   You know it's got this massively overbuilt power supply right from the old Intel Mac mini this tiny little

00:55:21   Logic board with system on a chip on it, and I feel I think I would feel more confident about the long longevity of an M1

00:55:29   Mac mini than a new 14 inch M1 maxing just because the new 14 inch M1 max

00:55:34   It's got a bunch of batteries inside there

00:55:36   And it's much tighter and there's more room for stuff to get caught in the the M1 Mac mini is

00:55:40   Just an empty cavern an overbuilt empty cavern you know it's probably gonna be fine like it's not that big of a difference

00:55:47   So they could be compromises that used to be there are just not there anymore

00:55:51   But it doesn't mean there's zero of them

00:55:53   It just means that they're one they are falling below the threshold of people most people caring

00:55:58   But definitely not falling the below threshold of me caring and in the end it is a waste to buy a screen and a keyboard

00:56:03   And a trackpad if you're not going to use them

00:56:05   Well, I mean I think ultimately the the biggest reason to get the new iMac when it comes out again

00:56:12   We don't know anything about it

00:56:13   But the biggest reason to get the new iMac that when it comes out is going to be the screen problem like it's gonna be

00:56:18   That oh well Apple still is not gonna

00:56:20   Especially if they have they don't have a monitor with it, and that is the the biggest selling

00:56:24   But you're basically buying a monitor, and it's like I guess that has a computer attached

00:56:27   Yeah, like the screen problem is gonna be a big driver and then secondarily to that yeah desktops

00:56:33   Do have like more ports you know it'll have something

00:56:36   It'll have things like built-in Ethernet that these laptops don't have and we'll see but yeah

00:56:40   I'll probably but at least on the power brick right yeah, I don't know

00:56:45   Will it be will it be like 10 gig Ethernet like on the Mac Pro who knows right?

00:56:50   I mean so so I think like they like yeah, there are still reasons, but I think what Casey was said

00:56:55   It was important

00:56:55   It's like there are still reasons

00:56:57   But they're mattering less and less over time and and they matter less now than ever with that one exception of

00:57:03   The monitor question which again we keep coming back to this you know bringing it back around like that's why it's such a glaring hole

00:57:09   in the lineup

00:57:09   But if you're either willing to set six thousand dollars on fire or have some other solution to your monitor needs on your desktop besides

00:57:16   Relying on a built-in one for it for like an iMac if you have the monitor question answered

00:57:21   The MacBook Pro is the best desktop Apple makes and I don't think the new iMacs whenever they come out will be

00:57:28   That much better than the MacBook Pro is already agreed well see I mean

00:57:33   I mean it's easy to predict if you want to make bets on Marco changing his setup

00:57:36   That's usually a safe bet, but you have gone back and forth from laptop desktop laptop desktop

00:57:40   I'm assuming this cycle will continue to repeat and that means

00:57:43   Eventually you'll be in a desktop again for a little while, so we'll see I mean most like I mean

00:57:48   You were just very recently you were on the Mac mini

00:57:49   But just because that was the best one you could get but now the laptops are better

00:57:52   So now you're on that and they'll probably desktops to come out that are better

00:57:55   And you'll be on that and who knows round and around you go

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00:59:33   All right, we should probably talk about

00:59:39   Apple announcing self-service repair this dropped like a month ago now, but we just haven't had a chance to get to it

00:59:46   And so this is Apple announced self-service repair which will allow customers who are comfortable with completing their own repairs access to Apple genuine

00:59:54   Parts and tools it starts with the iPhone 12 and 13 and m1 max we coming soon

00:59:58   It starts on the iPhone with the display battery and camera this all began in the US in early 2022

01:00:04   following the repair customers return their used part for recycling will receive credit toward their purchase and

01:00:10   In the past three years it is noted

01:00:12   Apple has nearly doubled the number of service locations with access to Apple genuine parts tools and training including more than

01:00:18   2800 independent repair providers the rapidly expanding independent repair provider program originally launched the US in 2019 since grown to more to more than 200 countries

01:00:27   Enabling independent repair shops to access the same training parts and tools as other Apple authorized service providers

01:00:33   I should it's probably obvious by now, but I should note this is an Apple PR release

01:00:36   this is

01:00:39   Interesting I don't think that I would be the kind of person that would want to open up my own phone and replace a display

01:00:45   But it's cool that I can next year, right

01:00:49   So the the context for this announcement if you're not gonna keep up with things in this world

01:00:55   You're like alright, I guess whatever this seems weird or I'm not interesting or whatever

01:00:59   But there is a context for Apple making this announcement and that context is the challenge of people with broken Apple products

01:01:09   Getting them fixed and not wanting to pay a lot for that to happen

01:01:13   There are a lot of

01:01:16   Challenges involved with that there's one

01:01:18   Youtuber Lewis Rossman will put a link to his video responding to this, but he does the type of repairs you know

01:01:24   What I said Sega does what intend don't?

01:01:27   Rossman does what Apple don't

01:01:30   If your Mac is broken you can of course

01:01:33   or your phone or whatever you can of course take it to an Apple store and

01:01:38   They will fix it for you for a price

01:01:40   But you might not like that price that price might be really high

01:01:44   Let's say you have one of those stupid laptops or everything was all attached to the top case and your stupid keyboard went bad and

01:01:49   They had to replace the whole top case and let's say it was out of warranty

01:01:51   And you don't want to pay that much you just can't you just fix the keyboard no we have to replace everything right

01:01:55   That that same thing plays out a lot of different ways. Oh, I cracked my screen on my laptop

01:02:01   Can you just replace the screen no we have to replace the entire assembly?

01:02:05   Involved in screen even just even though just the LCD panel is bad

01:02:08   We have to replace the aluminum top of the case and the backlight back in the old days and the LCD thing like

01:02:14   That even though there are independent parts. They want them to be replaced together

01:02:18   Oh one chip on my logic board is bad. Can't you just replace that chip nope sorry new logic board?

01:02:23   $900 chip is 30 bucks, right?

01:02:26   So this is the the this is the problem here and

01:02:32   You would think okay? Well that's what Apple wants to do they want to give you the best repair possible

01:02:36   They don't want to replace individual chips because when you're placing individual chips

01:02:39   It's unreliable and they just go bad again, and it's problems with corrosion and blah blah blah

01:02:43   You know they just they just want to give you the best repair possible and that costs a lot of money

01:02:46   So fine you don't like it apples thing go someplace else and get it repaired

01:02:50   That's where the tricky part gets in where else are you going to go and so here's Apple bragging about their independent repair

01:02:56   providers and how they've doubled the number of those and how they're getting more and more places that

01:03:01   You have genuine Apple parts, which is another problem because lots of places will repair your stuff, but put in sort of like

01:03:05   Equivalent parts counterfeit parts you know parts that are not genuine Apple parts. Let's say that might cost less money or whatever

01:03:14   that

01:03:16   Customers may be okay with but Apple isn't because what if you know there's liability problems or especially if it's involving the battery or something

01:03:22   or whatever

01:03:24   so Apple wants there to be a

01:03:27   Better network of independent repair shops that use Apple parts and the do things the Apple way

01:03:34   And for that to happen those parts need to enter an agreement with Apple

01:03:39   That says we will do the repairs the way we're supposed to and in exchange you will allow us to get Apple genuine parts and Apple

01:03:46   genuine

01:03:47   You know repair manuals that tell us how to fix them or whatever

01:03:50   but still

01:03:52   like

01:03:53   Those places are under constraints due to that agreement with Apple. They're still not allowed to do repairs that Apple thinks

01:04:00   shouldn't be done and that's where this big tension is between

01:04:04   People who want I keep wanting to say I don't want to pay a lot for this muffler

01:04:09   But it's an ad that only old people even know about it remember when I was on TV and people watch them

01:04:14   It was a long time ago

01:04:15   They don't want to pay that much for things to get repaired

01:04:18   They're okay having a non genuine Apple thing if that means the screen on their phone works again. They don't care

01:04:24   They just want to get their phone fixed for less money than Apple charges

01:04:27   And if they go to an independent Apple retailer and that retailer gets genuine Apple parts at the genuine Apple price and has to do

01:04:33   with the genuine Apple way

01:04:35   Where it's not probably not going to be that much cheaper or to the degree that it will be cheaper

01:04:40   It's just cutting into the margins of the independent shop like they're not they're not empowered

01:04:45   To solve the actual problem here. That's what I have in the notice

01:04:48   Like what problem is being solved the problem from consumers perspective is I have a broken thing

01:04:53   I want to pay the least amount possible to get it fixed and I'm willing to compromise on like

01:04:58   Maybe long-term viability won't be that good me

01:05:01   It would be better if you replace the whole logic board like I acknowledge that but I don't want to pay $900

01:05:06   I want to pay 200. It's a big difference in money, right or I just want my screen to be fixed

01:05:12   It doesn't need to be genuine Apple screen

01:05:13   I don't care if the screen is worse. I just want to be able to use my phone again

01:05:16   So it'll hold me over to next year and I want to pay half price

01:05:19   right and

01:05:22   That option is not that that problem is not being solved by this program

01:05:26   This program of allowing people to do things a genuine Apple way with genuine Apple parts is not helping and so people like Lewis Rossman

01:05:32   That his problem is at his shop

01:05:34   He can't get the parts anymore because no one will sell them to him

01:05:37   Apple won't sell them and the people who make the parts like the actual vendors that Apple buys them from

01:05:42   Also won't sell him the parts. So he literally can't get this one little, you know, $2 chip

01:05:47   On the logic board needs to be replaced. He knows how to replace it. He can replace it

01:05:52   He's got videos and YouTube of him replacing it and it costs way less than buying a whole new logic board

01:05:56   And yes, maybe it is less reliable over time

01:05:58   But this is a trade-off that consumers are willing to make but Apple says consumers shouldn't be able to have that choice

01:06:02   Consumers should only be allowed to repair their things in the way that Apple wants them to be repaired

01:06:07   Which is usually the better safer way but also the more expensive way

01:06:12   And so this is the whole right to repair thing

01:06:14   How much say should Apple have as a vendor in how I can decide to get my thing repaired and this program

01:06:22   It sounds like oh, well fine just do it yourself

01:06:23   But no if you want to do this yourself

01:06:25   You also have to pay the genuine Apple price to get the genuine Apple parts and repair things genuine Apple way and they're starting with

01:06:33   Display battery and camera which are things that you know break a lot on phones and same thing with Macs

01:06:37   They're not going to sell you the little chips that you need to fix a little thing on a logic board

01:06:41   They're not going to sell you just this part of the screen instead of the whole screen assembly. Apple's not going to do that

01:06:47   so still Apple is exerting control by saying here's what we'll sell you and

01:06:52   We will tell all our vendors

01:06:55   You're not allowed to sell any of the parts that you sell to us to other people

01:06:59   So Apple is essentially boxing out independent repair shops from doing things. Not the genuine Apple way

01:07:04   Which is kind of crappy and this

01:07:08   repair program

01:07:11   Doesn't really do much to change that except in that it allows

01:07:15   I mean as far as I can tell it allows people to undercut Apple

01:07:18   By cutting into their own profit margins by saying okay Apple wants X amount of profit margins because they have to maintain a fancy store

01:07:25   In a mall, right? I don't have to maintain that I have lower rent

01:07:28   I'm in a smaller place that doesn't have like Italian marble tiles on the wall or whatever the hell

01:07:33   Apple has on their Apple stores and I'll pass that savings on to you by taking less of a profit on this screen repair

01:07:39   But I will do the screen repair the Apple way with Apple parts and it will cost

01:07:43   Almost the same price minus 10% or something and that 10% is 10%

01:07:48   I'm eating because I have to pay the same price for the parts that Apple does, right?

01:07:51   So I guess that helps I'm not saying this is an announcement. It's bad

01:07:54   I'm just saying that the problem that is that the context the surrounding context of like hey

01:07:59   What is the problem with people getting stuff repaired that's not being fundamentally changed by this program. It's helping

01:08:05   It's better than not doing this

01:08:06   It's better to have independent repair shops than to not have them

01:08:09   But still Apple is essentially controlling from top to bottom exactly the kind of repairs that can be done to its products by anybody

01:08:16   Not just by Apple

01:08:17   Marco any thoughts? No, John covered it really well. I think this is going to change things in small ways not big ways

01:08:25   Yeah, I mean and it's good if you're one of the independent repair shops

01:08:28   Oh, I want more access to more stuff and to be able to do more repairs good great

01:08:32   But the bigger problem like the big question is should Apple be able to decide how I can get my thing repaired and the answer

01:08:37   Is right now they can

01:08:39   Sort of like de facto like through all their arrangements and dealings

01:08:43   It doesn't look like they're stopping you from doing anything, but they really are and it's kind of crappy in some ways

01:08:50   It's also kind of better because you got these things to have with you my is the scare tactic that always uses

01:08:54   It's the computer repair equivalent of think of the children

01:08:57   Oh

01:08:57   Battery is gonna explode because you use a cheap battery and they poke the battery when they were changing your screen and everything setting on

01:09:02   Fire and everyone's gonna die and flames right like that's Apple will always tell you that you're all gonna die in flames

01:09:07   And there is some truth to that. Someone's probably gonna die in flames

01:09:09   But like think of it this way when you get your car repaired

01:09:14   You don't have to go to the dealership

01:09:16   You can go other places and anybody can buy a part from Honda to repair your car

01:09:20   And Honda does not force you to rebuy the whole engine if you just need a new head gasket

01:09:25   They will sell you the head gasket. They will sell you every part in that car

01:09:29   It's a good business parts are very profitable, right, but they won't just up. Sorry

01:09:32   We won't just sell a head gasket you need to buy the entire head that that's not how Honda works

01:09:37   Imagine if they did imagine if first they were only you could only take it to the Honda dealership

01:09:41   I said now we're allowed third parties to do stuff

01:09:43   But also you can only buy the entire, you know top of the engine

01:09:45   You can't just buy a head gasket because we feel like if you just replace the head gasket

01:09:49   That's not a good repair. You just need to replace the whole top of the engine, right? That's the situation

01:09:53   We're in with computers and cars are way more dangerous than computers at this point right in terms of potential for instant death, right?

01:10:00   Yes, battery is gonna go bad and burst into flames

01:10:02   But you know if you're hurtling along in this, you know multi thousand pound machine

01:10:07   They could veer off into an immovable object in any second, but somehow we're okay with doing with cars, but computers

01:10:12   It's you know when Apple makes the safety argument. It's true. There probably be more

01:10:16   Incidents of bad repairs and things going bad

01:10:19   But is it going to be worse than vehicles and somehow the world goes on, you know?

01:10:23   We think it's better that you can take your car to someplace other than the dealer and I don't think anybody if you're interested

01:10:28   It said hey, we've decided that you're no longer going to be allowed to get your car up at any place other than dealer

01:10:33   That's kind of true with Tesla right now. Sorry Marco, but yeah

01:10:36   Tesla tries very hard to be like Apple in this regard of not allowing third-party repairs this whole YouTube videos

01:10:41   Not if you want to look at it, but but I don't think we'd want to go back with cars

01:10:45   I don't think we anyone would agree to a new law that says your car can only be repaired at the dealer because we know

01:10:50   What would happen there?

01:10:51   Well, that's a situation where we're in with Apple not, you know

01:10:54   We were in with Apple and Apple is trying to expand it out in the other direction

01:10:57   but we're nowhere near where we should be which is I

01:10:59   Can get my car repaired anywhere and I can be confident unless I have a Tesla

01:11:03   I guess that that you can buy any part of this car any one of these thousands and thousands of parts that make up

01:11:08   This car you can buy a genuine part or a replacement part. That is not an OEM part

01:11:14   And pay someone else to put it in there and it will be fine

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01:13:08   All right

01:13:12   Let's do some ask ATP and Todd cap really in rights

01:13:15   The iPhone was a big risk for Apple in part because it didn't have a hard of keyboard instead

01:13:21   They opted for the flexibility of a virtual one and this usage a virtual interface was a smashing success

01:13:26   Following this lesson. I can see the merits of replacing the top row of

01:13:29   Regular function keys with virtual ones and the Mac laptops like like they did in the touch bar. This appears to have been a failure

01:13:35   However, why do you think the use of a virtual interface works so well in one context, but not the other

01:13:39   I have a couple of theories. First of all when I am using the virtual keyboard on a phone

01:13:45   Nine times out of ten. I am looking at the phone

01:13:48   Whereas I am a touch typist and so it is very rare that I am looking down at my keyboard

01:13:55   It happens, but it is very very rare and it is very unusual

01:13:58   And secondly every iPhone had the same keyboard

01:14:02   not every Mac had the same keyboard and a lot of times people who wrote code to to

01:14:09   Create programs in applications for these Macs were doing it on iMacs which didn't have a touch bar

01:14:16   So those are two potentially silly reasons

01:14:19   But those are two reasons I see why it never really took off and then there were people like Marco who just never gave it

01:14:24   a chance. Excuse me. I gave it lots of chance. I am kidding. I am kidding.

01:14:27   No, I think you know number one

01:14:29   You're right that the fact is that when you are touching a screen that you are looking at that's a very different thing

01:14:36   than a

01:14:38   keyboard where

01:14:39   Traditionally like typically most people typing on physical laptop keyboards most of the time are not looking at the keyboards when they're typing on them

01:14:46   So that's you know problem number one is that is that the touch bar

01:14:50   Required you to move your eyes every single time down to the keyboard to be able to reliably use it

01:14:57   Whereas with the phone you are looking at the screen the entire time you are actively using it

01:15:02   And so, you know you you have a lot more, you know direct interaction there

01:15:08   and I think the other thing is that

01:15:10   the the software keyboard on the phone is

01:15:14   not a

01:15:16   hundred percent better in every way than a physical keyboard

01:15:19   but it enabled such additional features like the screen opening up when the keyboard wasn't there into much more screen area and

01:15:28   other kinds of customization or anything else so it it allowed other benefits that let us forgive the

01:15:35   Downsides of the virtual keyboard over a physical one the touch bar didn't do that the touch bar

01:15:43   Didn't enable enough additional value

01:15:46   Compared to the hardware keys to justify the loss of the hardware keys that was the biggest problem is that?

01:15:54   You know in certain ways it was significantly worse. You know the lack of feel

01:15:58   accidental input you know not

01:16:01   Having to like activate it to do certain things you know having to wake it up

01:16:05   You know so it was worse than all these in all these ways

01:16:09   But it wasn't better enough. It didn't provide enough benefit in in you know to offset the ways in which it was worse whereas the iPhone

01:16:16   It's the opposite the iPhone keyboard like yeah, it's worse than hardware keyboards in some ways

01:16:21   But all these benefits came from doing that that we we put up with the with those downsides

01:16:27   And and it was overall a very good trade-off. Yeah, and the touch bar just didn't have that

01:16:32   Yep, I agree. There was the that's the big difference that what do I get in exchange for this in exchange for this weird thing?

01:16:38   What do I any what you get on the phone is like well you get like double the screen size without making the device bigger

01:16:43   How does that feel and it's you know it's such a massive win and the other thing I had going for it is

01:16:49   Those tiny keyboards like on blackberries or whatever they weren't great

01:16:53   You know

01:16:55   Laptops can have full-size keyboards on them that are just you know they're fine full-size keys full-size, right?

01:17:01   to

01:17:03   Replace part of that with the screen then with all these compromises or whatever like it's easier to replace the crappy tiny

01:17:08   keyboard with a slightly crappier on-screen keyboard in exchange for getting double the screen space and

01:17:14   Enabling a whole world of new applications and by the way when you don't need the keyboard

01:17:18   You know it's like such a huge win and the touch bar is like

01:17:21   We're going to compromise your full-size keyboard that you like setting aside the butterfly business or whatever and in exchange you don't

01:17:30   Get much, maybe you get some benefit, but also you get some downsides of having to move your eyes, so that's why like it's

01:17:37   It's like any design thing

01:17:40   it's all about the trade-offs you have to look at what are the pros and what are the cons and the

01:17:43   The balance for getting the software keyboard on the phone was just you know witness the entire world of phones now

01:17:49   Such a huge win that it more than makes up with compromises and the touch bar look at Apple's laptop lineup

01:17:56   Look at the laptops around the entire industry

01:17:58   That trade-off obviously had a much worse ratio otherwise

01:18:02   All laptops would have touch bars now, but they don't not even apples

01:18:06   I think another thing we learned is that you know the the touch bars promise

01:18:11   You know if it was going to have some positive value the promise was look we can change all these function keys to be

01:18:18   Anything you want depending on applications and needs and preferences you can have all the dynamic you know changing stuff

01:18:24   But I think what we ultimately learned from that is what most people need from laptops in that area is things like well

01:18:30   Yeah, I need to control the brightness and you control the sound volume

01:18:34   I might want media playback controls there all things that the keyboard already offered in the function keys and

01:18:41   You kind of want those to like most people want those to be available most of the time on laptops

01:18:47   And then once you throw in touch ID on one side escape on the other like well to make that area

01:18:52   functional the way most people need for laptops

01:18:54   You could actually just use function keys and just put have them be permanently

01:19:00   You know that fixed in place, and that's gonna solve most people needed most of the time

01:19:04   So even the upside of the touch bar of like the the dynamism of it

01:19:09   Was something that proved to be?

01:19:11   Not as good and not as necessary as I think people would have would have thought if they would have first come up with

01:19:18   This idea in you know 2015 or whatever

01:19:20   It's not like there's you know unlike the phones where the half the device was

01:19:25   Dominated by the keyboard because the phones had to be so small right that you were doubling the screen size

01:19:29   There's already a large amount of screen space on laptops. That was part of Steve Jobs

01:19:33   original pitch was

01:19:36   You know why would we take half of the surface of this device and put it on a thing that can never change?

01:19:40   Right if we make the whole thing screen we can change everything that appears there

01:19:45   We can have a keyboard that just accepts numbers and we can have a keyboard with a dot-com button when you're entering an email address

01:19:49   And like look at that you know look at the benefits of a screen you can put anything you want in a screen

01:19:54   Laptops have a big screen, and you can put lots of stuff that you want there

01:19:58   It's almost as like if Apple wanted to do

01:20:01   Something like the touch bar in terms of a user interface element

01:20:05   You could just dedicate the bottom of the screen can you call it the control strip bring a blast in the past from classic Mac OS

01:20:11   You can put the touch bar on the actual screen and then make the screen a touchscreen Apple

01:20:15   And just dedicate a region of the bottom of the screen to that if you think if you think it's a useful thing to have

01:20:20   You know oh part of a part of the interface that can change anytime we want

01:20:25   It's the screen you've got a whole screen for that and do it like there's lots of interface elements that are like that in the Mac

01:20:30   UI

01:20:31   Put them there moving it down to the keyboard and more importantly

01:20:34   Taking away the physical function keys that you can always reliably find the volume up and down a mute button

01:20:39   Because it never moves and it works like a button and you can feel for it and so on and so forth

01:20:43   Taking that away, which by the way was stupid you could have a touch bar on top of the function keys

01:20:47   It's not like you didn't have room on the surface of these giant laptops anyway taking that away

01:20:50   You needed something to balance it and they didn't give enough benefit to balance it

01:20:54   Alrighty Arien Anaha writes. Why is chromium's dominance considered bad for the open web?

01:21:00   I understand the chromium browsers have poor support for Apple devices, but isn't that because Apple uses WebKit

01:21:05   What would we lose or what would Google gain if all competing browsers were based on chromium?

01:21:09   pros of greater greater website compatibility and interoperability of extensions seems like a massive upside to every of

01:21:16   Everyone using chromium after all it is open source, isn't it John? Yeah, so

01:21:21   Setting aside the obvious disadvantages of like a monoculture both biologically speaking in the various biological

01:21:27   analogs in the software world like it's not a good idea to have you know a

01:21:31   Important part of our computing platform be like one piece of software

01:21:36   You know based on chromium or whatever the open source thing is a bit of a sort of get out of jail free card that people

01:21:42   Like to play but as I wrote it in a very old blog post that

01:21:46   2013 when I used to write slightly more on my blog

01:21:49   Having something being open source is great and all but for projects like chromium big complicated projects

01:21:56   Where it's not like a single developer can do anything you need

01:22:00   large companies funded by billions of dollars in advertising revenue to be able to

01:22:06   Make any headway on that project and it's basically whoever

01:22:09   Whoever does has the most employees working on it whoever pays people to work on it whoever writes the most lines of code

01:22:15   By default controls that project. Oh, it's open source. Don't we all share this together?

01:22:21   Good luck competing with hundreds of Google engineers, right? You can't they're going to make all the changes

01:22:26   They're going to drive the change

01:22:27   You can't compete with that because they just put more money and more people on the project and therefore they control it

01:22:32   So even it's like oh, it's not Google controls it chromium is an open source project. It's controlled by all of us

01:22:38   No

01:22:39   It's controlled by Google because Google puts the money in and everyone else is volunteering in their spare time or whatever

01:22:45   They can't compete with people being paid with you know

01:22:48   The millions of dollars that we funnel into them through Google searches and search ads and stuff, right?

01:22:52   So having an important part of our computing experience being de facto controlled by one company

01:23:00   And a company that makes us money off advertising that's bad

01:23:03   And yeah Apple uses a WebKit not too long ago WebKit and chromium were based on the same

01:23:08   browser engine called WebKit

01:23:11   But now it's based on blink or whatever, but I understand chromium is bigger than just the browser engine

01:23:15   It's you know, like I get it

01:23:16   but yeah

01:23:17   it would be bad for all of us if Google and advertising company was the one and only vendor of

01:23:22   The major component used to power our web browsers and the fact that it's open source doesn't change that

01:23:29   Dave Saunders writes and we kind of hinted at this earlier

01:23:32   We now have a MacBook Air with an M1 and a MacBook Pro with an M1 Pro and M1 Max

01:23:37   We have an iMac with an M1

01:23:38   So it is a strong possibility that when we next get an iMac or perhaps an iMac Pro

01:23:43   It'll have the M1 Pro or M1 Max chips

01:23:46   When the iMac hasn't been refreshed for ages the iMac Pro was a clear statement of intent

01:23:51   But in the current context Dave writes

01:23:54   I'd be interested in your thoughts on what is the incentive for Apple to keep producing the Mac Pro to serve the small and

01:23:59   shrinking number of users who are not served by other Macs. I feel like this is one of those ones that we

01:24:03   Get asked like annually and apparently it's that time of year again. So John take it away

01:24:10   I'm gonna just put my same article from 2013 the case for a true Mac Pro successor

01:24:16   It's still the same case that's ever been like luckily. We don't have to remake this case Apple agrees with us

01:24:21   Apple has is not you know, I

01:24:24   Haven't said that they're producing an R Mac Pro, but they're producing an R Mac Pro like

01:24:29   Apple needs to continue to push at the top edge of

01:24:33   computing hardware not because they make a lot of money off of them or you know selling lots of people or just because for the

01:24:39   Same reason that the analogy I made in this old blog post. It's the same reason the car makers make what they call

01:24:45   Halo cars, right? It's a car that burnesses your brand. It's really cool

01:24:48   You probably lose money on the whole project, but it's important place support serves so many different purposes

01:24:53   It's a place where new technologies are tried out for the first time

01:24:56   It's a place where you push the envelope things like the XDR which is a ridiculous product

01:24:59   It was their first mini LED display

01:25:01   It was the first HDR display like it was pushing the envelope and what was possible and it taught people inside Apple

01:25:08   about this new technology

01:25:11   It also a role that I don't think I talked about in this blog post and people don't really consider but like

01:25:16   It is being on a halo car project at a car company. That's a good gig

01:25:22   It helps you retain employees if you have like your very best employees, maybe they want to make the cool

01:25:28   You know supercar even though that's not an important you'd rather have them be making the next Toyota Camry, right?

01:25:34   but if you want to retain that engineer this great, you know, this is a great automotive designer and

01:25:38   They want to be on the LFA project put them on the LFA project. You will retain that employee. You will make them happier

01:25:45   They will improve their skills burning through all your money making this ridiculous supercar

01:25:49   That's never gonna it's not gonna turn a profit, right?

01:25:52   They'll be happy happy employees with even better skills. That's what you want, right?

01:25:58   So having you know, if you are on the Mac Pro team and this sort of like twist turns your propeller

01:26:03   You love making big fast beefy computers. You want that job in Apple, right?

01:26:08   You want and if you can't get it Apple you go elsewhere you work on Threadripper at AMD or something?

01:26:13   Who knows you'll go you're on Microsoft and work on whatever, right?

01:26:17   Having projects like this is important for the morale of the company. There's a point for employee retention. It's important for R&D

01:26:23   It's important for satisfying your customers. Do you want to keep video?

01:26:26   You know editors as one of your markets you want to keep selling Final Cut Pro

01:26:31   You need to sell a machine that they can use to do their real job. No, there's not a lot of them

01:26:35   No, they're not gonna make you a lot of money. But you if you want in that market, this is the price of entry. So

01:26:40   Yeah, Apple eventually was convinced that argument they had a Mac roundtable

01:26:46   They said they're gonna make a modular Mac Pro. They made one. It's pretty cool. I think they're gonna make another one

01:26:50   I don't think we have to relitigate this early. So I hope we don't

01:26:53   Yeah agreed. I think you know, they even though

01:26:57   What they're making so far with with the Apple silicon max

01:27:01   Like if you just look at the current lineup, even though everything I was saying earlier

01:27:04   But how you don't really need desktops for many people anymore

01:27:06   There are still those higher needs or more specialized needs that the current products won't cover

01:27:13   Well, you know, even if we got a nice iMac that's very similar in hardware to the current MacBook Pros

01:27:19   That's gonna be great

01:27:21   But if you're like, you know a professional video producer, you're gonna want more GPU grunt

01:27:28   You know, you're gonna want more bandwidth. You're gonna want more, you know storage options and higher even higher RAM capacity

01:27:35   Possibly like there's always there's always gonna be some customer

01:27:40   That is not going to be served by laptop grade or mid-range desktop grade hardware

01:27:46   Even though that hardware is fantastic because as time goes on as that hardware can get more fantastic

01:27:53   The needs of high-end customers also continue to increase, you know video gets higher bitrate people do more advanced processing of things

01:28:01   There's more scientific research or ML training or you know stuff like that

01:28:05   The bar is always getting getting raised and there's always going to be like whatever most people are able to get away with

01:28:12   there's gonna be high-end users and

01:28:15   they're gonna want more and they're gonna be able to use more and they're gonna be willing to pay for more and

01:28:19   And so the Mac Pro is going to address those markets, you know similarly to how the current one addresses them

01:28:26   I think it's not going to be a high-volume machine

01:28:29   but it is going to be very important to certain markets and certain users and

01:28:35   Therefore they should keep making it and including for all the reasons John just said as well

01:28:38   Plus it gives us more Mac Pro stuff to talk about exactly. What would we talk about if they didn't make Mac Pros?

01:28:45   Thanks to our sponsors this week slide box

01:28:49   Impending and trade coffee and thanks to remember to support us directly. You can join at

01:28:55   ATBI.fm/join, maybe if enough of you join we can get Casey to waffle more about an XDR and we will talk to you next week

01:29:04   (music)

01:29:06   Now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:29:14   It was accidental

01:29:17   John didn't do any research Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental

01:29:24   It was accidental

01:29:27   And you can find the show notes at ATP.fm

01:29:33   And if you're into Twitter you can follow them at

01:29:38   Cas, Ey, L, I

01:29:41   Ss, so that's Casey Liss, Marco, ARM

01:29:46   Anti Marco Armin, SIR, AC

01:29:51   USA, Syracuse

01:29:54   It's accidental

01:29:56   It's accidental

01:29:58   They didn't mean to

01:30:00   Accidental

01:30:02   Tech podcast so long

01:30:06   So John what's new with your freezer? Yeah, I guess that's a spoiler

01:30:11   But honestly, you should re-listen to the episodes in order and so you already know the source of my beeping turned out to be my freezer

01:30:16   I said I'm solving the problem by buying a new freezer. Just a brief update on this unfortunately ongoing saga. Oh, no

01:30:23   I did buy a new freezer

01:30:25   There was a whole rigamarole about preparing the way that maybe I'll talk about on rectiffs, but whatever

01:30:29   Please freezier gets delivered gets installed. I killed myself trying to level it again more rectiffs content probably

01:30:35   Set it all up

01:30:39   Put food into it

01:30:41   Painfully carried the old one up and out and put it in the garage while waiting to for someone to give it away to

01:30:47   Turns out the new freezer has some problems. It's kind of like the LG 5k

01:30:55   It was okay, but then like it was confused about whether the door was open or closed I'm like well the door just did yet

01:31:00   You know it comes in without the door and you connect the door

01:31:02   So they'd sorted that out but like and the little high temperature light was on and like well

01:31:06   But it is high temperature now we got away for to cool down

01:31:08   But by the time the first day was over we realized that

01:31:12   You know after many hours, it would eventually just start beeping constantly

01:31:17   That's the high temperature alarm right at least you know what it is now, yeah

01:31:24   No, there's no doubt like it is constant. It is it's the high temperature alarm. It's constant beeping like about that fast

01:31:29   No, I sound like at least you know what the freezer. Yeah, I know it's the freezer and it's not a song

01:31:33   It's just constant beeping I

01:31:35   You know we did get like a freezer thermometer to see is it really high temperature, and it's not it's negative 20 degrees inside

01:31:41   There so the thing is broken it thinks that it is

01:31:44   You know it's temperature sensor doesn't work

01:31:47   If you google for this online you will find lots of people with this exact problem with this exact model which unfortunately yeah

01:31:53   anyway

01:31:55   And the other thing is like frost is

01:31:57   forming inside the thing so I

01:31:59   Made the pretty quick call to say I am NOT going to try to deal with this. I'm just sending it back. Yep smart

01:32:06   Yeah, so I it's you know sending everything with the whole kovat and shipping and blah blah blah

01:32:12   The earliest they could come and pick it up is the 20th so oh geez like three weeks from now. Yep

01:32:19   So it's a good thing we didn't get rid of the old freezer because the old freezer is up in the garage right now

01:32:23   And we have transferred the food out of the downstairs freezer and put it into the garage freezer and unplug the downstairs one

01:32:29   You know why because the high temp alarm would go off every six hours

01:32:32   So that meant every morning when we woke up we woke up to pee pee pee pee pee pee pee

01:32:39   Every morning because it would it was going off at 12 and 6 at 12 6 12 6 12

01:32:44   You know you have to go down there and press the alarm reset button so we lasted a few days on that and we're like no

01:32:48   F that

01:32:50   And so now the food is in the upstairs

01:32:52   Freezer that's in the garage and guess what?

01:32:55   It doesn't sing a song anymore

01:32:58   It's in the garage

01:33:02   Did we knock a bunch of dust loose carrying it up?

01:33:05   Was it just angry in the basement?

01:33:09   so anyway the

01:33:11   The replacement is going back on the 20th right now all the food is in the garage room

01:33:17   Which is no longer singing a song and then we're not quite sure what to do

01:33:20   We could replay and by the way if you're looking to replace it

01:33:23   There's you know given the like what's actually in stock your choices are

01:33:29   Various rebranded versions of the one that's in the garage

01:33:32   It comes under it's under Maytag brand whirlpool brand you can look at them

01:33:36   You just if you're familiar with them you can say that's the same freezer with different brandings right so you can get that one

01:33:40   Or you can get various rebranded versions of the one that's in the basement, which is a GE

01:33:44   But there's also insignia, but it's the same those are the two

01:33:47   standing frost free vertical

01:33:51   Freezers that you can get in stock there are lots of others made

01:33:56   But like you'd have to wait months for them to come over on a boat from somewhere right only those two are in stock anywhere

01:34:02   So we are either going to

01:34:04   Pretend that the one in the garage is cured, and then I guess carry it back down to the basement

01:34:10   Which I'm not looking forward to

01:34:13   Especially now that's considered. It's filled with frozen food, which we have to remove and would be like a time pressure thing right

01:34:18   I like to leave it in the garage where it's cold anyway or

01:34:22   Buy a new one probably just buy a new slightly larger because you know of course slightly larger

01:34:29   The version of the one that's in the garage and sort of reset the clock on the beeping song or whatever

01:34:34   So that's where we are. I will give more updates as things change, but

01:34:40   Anyway, the saga continues. We have not solved the problem. We had a different amount of beeping

01:34:44   And the old ones not playing its song anymore. I

01:34:47   Would just leave it like Lee just return the bad one

01:34:51   Leave the leave the now garage freezer in the garage, and that's just where you get your frozen food now

01:34:56   Well, that's a getting a lot

01:34:58   I do want to be able to fit the car in there again eventually so with the car will not fit

01:35:02   That's a lost cause the car will not with the with the with the freezer in there

01:35:07   No way no house. So that's got to come out it barely fit before like I know but it did fit

01:35:12   I think you've lost this battle once. No, I'll bring it back down. I mean, we don't we don't want it in the garage

01:35:18   It's a pain to go outside into the cold garage when you want something

01:35:22   It's better to stay inside the conditioned house and go, you know in the basement

01:35:25   So we'll see I'm you know, this is there are other things in progress again, you know

01:35:30   Listen to rectives you wanna hear more of this saga. Yes, I do

01:35:35   All right, Marco what's going on with you these days

01:35:37   Well, I'm gonna take it to neutral. I

01:35:39   Do not have a driving permit for the sand yet. Mm-hmm. However, I

01:35:45   have driven on the sand and

01:35:47   I have purchased a vehicle. Oh

01:35:51   Did you get that? What was it?

01:35:53   I put the link in I put the picture in our slack so you guys can see so the neighbors fj

01:35:59   It is the fj Cruiser not the neighbor, but yeah somebody else in town

01:36:03   So I have purchased an fj Cruiser it is colors the roof

01:36:07   well

01:36:10   The roof happens to be white but the car

01:36:13   This is a homely car. I'd forgotten how I do these things. Yeah, the car is gray

01:36:19   It is nothing that I would have picked out in terms of like if I was going to choose my own fj Cruiser. I

01:36:26   By the way, which hasn't been made since 2014. So, you know, you're already and it was never made in large volume

01:36:32   So they're they're kind of hard and it was never attractive. They're kind of no it was never tried

01:36:36   they're kind of hard to find but you know, they're out there and

01:36:39   if I were to pick my own I would probably get a

01:36:43   yellow or orange one

01:36:46   Why to lean into the ugly factor? Yeah. Oh, and I would almost certainly get it with a stick which it was available in

01:36:53   This is gray and automatic. So this is not what I normally would have picked

01:37:01   But as I mentioned, I don't have a driving permit yet

01:37:04   The reason I have purchased this vehicle. I think I'm pretty high on the list to get a permit

01:37:11   So I think I'm I think I'm going to get one probably either this winter or next winter in the winter

01:37:17   sometimes the bay freezes over and the ferries have to suspend service for

01:37:22   Drive right over that Bay on this vehicle. Well, so the

01:37:25   when the bay freezes which happens usually every winter for at least a few days and sometimes it can be

01:37:31   A week sometimes it can be a few weeks. Sometimes it could be a month and when the bay freezes

01:37:35   You no longer have access to the land for things like grocery shopping and that's kind of annoying and and problematic

01:37:44   So when the bay freezes if if there's no ferry service

01:37:47   Anyone who's on the sand driving waiting list can get weekly sand driving permits

01:37:54   This is a hell of a system here

01:37:56   However if the bay freezes

01:38:00   And I and I had got a I got a temporary freeze-over permit. I

01:38:04   Can't necessarily drive my Tesla on the sand. No not advisable. You need a vehicle that can do it

01:38:12   to make use of that and so

01:38:14   Normally, you know, I was not planning on buying anything until and unless I got the full permit but

01:38:21   Somebody in town who had a permit is was moving

01:38:26   She decided to sell her car and she was offering it at a price. That was

01:38:31   Well below not only its its official value I think but also

01:38:36   Well below anything that is online for sale right now

01:38:41   Like, you know, try first of all try to buy any car right now

01:38:44   It's this is not a good time to need to buy a car if you're if you're buying in most context

01:38:50   This is also really not a good time to want to buy an FJ Cruiser or a Wrangler or any vehicle that would be suitable

01:38:56   for this purpose

01:38:57   so this was

01:38:59   an opportunity that I just didn't want to pass up because so, you know a I have I have like, you know,

01:39:05   The bay freezing over contingency now covered. I have a sand capable vehicle and it was very inexpensive

01:39:11   Was it was it more or less expensive than my Mac more but not by a lot

01:39:17   Not not by much at all actually Mac it has very poor performance on the sand I'd advise

01:39:22   It doesn't even have wheels you didn't even get the wheels a lot of place for a sandy ingress and in my Mac

01:39:30   Yeah, and I didn't get the wheels

01:39:31   so, you know it this this opportunity came up to get this vehicle and it was it was too good of a price to pass up and

01:39:38   and it's and it's actually it's only

01:39:40   80,000 miles and it's a 2014 model year which was the last year they were made like if you're gonna get an FJ

01:39:47   Besides, you know that it's not really the color or transmission

01:39:50   I would have necessarily picked for myself if you're gonna get an FJ you want a 2014 model year with relatively low mileage

01:39:56   It's a Toyota. So it's fine. Thank you. Bye like a Land Rover or something

01:40:00   I think it's fine. And and as part of as part of the the deal the previous owner was

01:40:06   Super nice and super generous with you know her time and everything and she taught me how to drive on the sand

01:40:13   She'd been doing it for like 30 years. And so she took me out. We we did a whole run

01:40:17   I did it with her through the gate and everything as she she's allowed to have other people drive the car. She's in it

01:40:21   So we went through the gate. I went the two different routes you can go and I learned where everything was and

01:40:26   Let me tell you

01:40:29   driving on the sand

01:40:31   was

01:40:32   Way harder than I expected

01:40:34   So a few things I've learned so first of all

01:40:37   This was you know, the conditions we're talking about here. This is driving

01:40:43   across a beach for a few miles and it's in the winter and so and it hadn't rained in a while and

01:40:50   so the beach consisted almost entirely of

01:40:55   Multiple very deep tracks through the sand, you know, just tire tracks, you know, like deep tire tracks just running straight

01:41:01   You know kind of exact here and there but mostly like straight tire tracks on the sand

01:41:05   Forming like a bunch of like I guess like kind of virtual lanes

01:41:09   Across the beach maybe like eight or ten like virtual sand lanes wide but super deep tracks

01:41:14   you know probably at least six to ten inches deep, you know, just the tracks in the sand and

01:41:19   Going between them the sand because it hadn't rained in a while. The sand is not hard packed down

01:41:25   So it's very loose packed and you're riding in these basically deep ruts

01:41:29   so getting in and out of the tracks is is

01:41:33   Not easy necessarily because you have these big ruts you're going in and out of and the sand is loose and it's very tall

01:41:39   And so this was a challenging time to drive through the sand, you know, I don't want to toot my own horn here

01:41:44   I'm pretty good at car control in

01:41:47   Loose traction situations like Casey you recall at BMW like the driving fun thing we did with with underscore

01:41:54   I was pretty good on the skid pad

01:41:55   Yeah, like I wasn't good at going around it quickly

01:41:57   But I was really good at not spinning out and not losing control. Like I'm generally pretty decent at that kind of thing with cars

01:42:04   This was hard

01:42:07   Again way harder than I expected, you know, there were lots of times where you know

01:42:13   I'm going down this track and and the woman who was selling me the car who was telling me like she had given me a

01:42:19   Ride off like on the sand a few days earlier

01:42:22   I would describe her driving style as like pretty gentle like, you know

01:42:26   She was a slow careful driver

01:42:29   Like one of the reasons why I bought the car actually cuz I could tell the shoot it

01:42:32   She wasn't like a hard driver of it, but there were so many times where she would tell me you should go faster here

01:42:38   Go faster. Otherwise, you're gonna get stuck. You gotta go faster. You gotta go faster

01:42:41   Like I had to keep keep the car moving at certain points, you know

01:42:44   Otherwise I was I was at risk of getting stuck and this is an FJ Cruiser which you know off-roaders respect this vehicle

01:42:51   It's a pretty well regarded vehicle for off-road driving. It has off-road tires

01:42:55   They were aired way down to like 20 psi and it was still

01:42:59   really hard

01:43:02   It was in four-wheel drive mode. The diffs were locked

01:43:05   like it was it was as as off-road mode as it could be and

01:43:10   there were still times when like I would try to steer out of

01:43:15   The current like rut I was driving in and I would turn the wheel and I just keep going straight

01:43:22   As if you're driving on ice like, you know, just you turn the wheel and you just well

01:43:25   You're just I guess I'm going straight for a little while longer until until I can get it to kick up

01:43:30   You know get up there on the on the ridge. So

01:43:32   it was very very hard and and

01:43:34   One thing she told me, you know, she said like, you know everybody who has a driving permit gets stuck sometime

01:43:40   Really everyone like cuz I'm here I'm thinking like I'm gonna get a really capable vehicle and I'm and I'm a pretty good driver

01:43:46   I'm never gonna get stuck and she's like no everybody gets stuck and what do you do when you get stuck?

01:43:52   You call 911 and they dispatch a local police something to come pull you out

01:43:57   I'm like really I'm like first of all, I'd really I'd be mortified if I ever had to do that

01:44:02   Yeah, I really don't want to have to do that. But all of this is to say

01:44:07   This vehicle. I really appreciated how how capable it was at the same time

01:44:15   It was just barely what I would want in capability

01:44:20   and so recognizing that there aren't many vehicles that are more off-road capable than this that aren't like really

01:44:25   Giant things like because I don't want to I don't want a huge like lifted pickup truck

01:44:29   I don't even want a full-length SUV because once you get onto the beak streets boy

01:44:34   Do you want a very small vehicle at that point? Yes, like a wrangler

01:44:38   The Rivian is more capable of this though higher ground clearance more power bigger knobby your wheels, right?

01:44:43   Yes, and that's one of the reasons why I'm interested in the Rivian

01:44:46   It is however a bigger vehicle and it doesn't exist yet. That's the bigger problem

01:44:50   but it's like, you know, certainly I think if if I get a permit and the Rivian comes out during the time I have a

01:44:58   Permit, I would most likely then sell or trade this in and switch to that until then in case you're right

01:45:04   The Wrangler is the other choice

01:45:06   However, I don't think a Wrangler is that much more capable in this condition. I think it would be fairly similar overall

01:45:12   I I would probably agree with that but it is a if the two-door anyway is a very small car

01:45:19   It's been a while since I've been physically next to a fj or whatever the heck this thing is called

01:45:23   So I don't recall how big they are

01:45:25   But a two-door Wrangler is very small the four doors are not the four doors are pretty big

01:45:29   well

01:45:29   and I wouldn't get the two the two-door Wrangler don't have enough space for me like I

01:45:32   Like we have a kid and you're a family of wee little people. You'd be fine

01:45:36   Have you seen a two-door Wrangler like if you have a car seat in the back, there's no trunk

01:45:41   That's a bit of a problem

01:45:42   There's not an abundance of trunk and you only have one car

01:45:46   so if you have it free a car seat if you just have a

01:45:49   Passenger in the back if you have the back seats operating as seats you have basically no trunk

01:45:55   I wouldn't say that you have a frunk. It's just in the back. So anyway

01:45:59   That's not at all. But and then no trunk in the front anyway

01:46:04   all right, so now if I went Wrangler I would go with the four-door one and

01:46:08   Dimensionally the Wrangler and the after the Wrangler and the FJ are very similar. There's a couple inches here there, but it's not

01:46:13   They're very they're very close in size overall

01:46:15   But anyway when I was first thinking about like, you know, what kind if I if I got a sand vehicle

01:46:22   What would I go for?

01:46:23   Would I go for something like a Wrangler or some giant SUV thing or I was thinking like could I get away with something?

01:46:30   That's maybe just like a really good all-wheel drive system with some good ground clearance

01:46:34   You know, like there's there's certain options like like the the Subaru Outback has this off-road package in the modern ones

01:46:40   That gives it like pretty good ground clearance and like, you know, it has a pretty good

01:46:44   It's pretty good system. But like so people recommended that

01:46:47   There's all there's like other Jeep models that are like a little, you know larger more comfortable on the highway

01:46:53   but aren't like, you know as off-road focus with the Wrangler and

01:46:56   Now I know from this experience of just driving driving there and back, you know, basically two two trips on the sand

01:47:03   I already know that I would absolutely not want any vehicle that is less

01:47:08   Off-road capable than this if anything I'd welcome more, you know, like if I can get the Rivian cool, I

01:47:14   Wrangler and FJ are my new baseline. Nothing that is less capable than these off-road would work for me here

01:47:21   I've also of course I went and got the the super expensive

01:47:25   Maxtrax

01:47:28   Skid plate things that you can like you can stick under your realtor get stuck and help pull yourself out or help drive out

01:47:33   I guess

01:47:34   So I ordered those I'm like I do not want to get stuck ever and have to like call the police. That sounds terrible

01:47:41   So I hopefully I never have to use those but I did order those

01:47:45   And like, you know, like little mini shovel, so we'll see if I ever had if this ever even happens

01:47:51   I forget if I ever get the permit but you know the great thing about

01:47:54   This deal too is like it was such a good price that even if I never get the permit and I end up selling this in

01:48:00   A few years. I'll probably make up all of what I paid for it or most of it at least so

01:48:04   It was kind of a no risk and that again

01:48:07   This is another reason why it's kind of a no-brainer deal, but other thing other notes about driving it

01:48:11   This was the FJ Cruiser. It was it was an old vehicle

01:48:15   like it came out in I think like

01:48:17   2008 or 2007 at first and the 2014 was not

01:48:21   Changed that much from then and so it still works the way cars from the early 2000s worked

01:48:26   So it doesn't have the stupid engine auto start-stop, which I hate on all vehicles that have it. It doesn't have

01:48:33   Proximity key it doesn't have oh, I'm out no proximity key

01:48:38   It basically has no it's like it's the way all cars used to be that's how this car is the way all my cars still

01:48:44   Are by the way, yeah

01:48:45   Like there's an ignition you put the key in it and turn it and just to start the car

01:48:50   That's still a thing. I will I will trade that for no stop-start any day of the week

01:48:54   Like oh, yeah, so many car like the thing every time I look at a modern car review

01:48:58   I then they go over like and here's where you disabled the start/stop button

01:49:01   All I want to know is the one piece of information that would tell me is

01:49:04   Do I have to disable stop-start every time I get into the car?

01:49:07   Does it remember like that's the most important feature of this car and let's just like Casey if they say oh you got to disable

01:49:12   It every time you get in I'm out. Yeah, it's not that bad

01:49:16   and in fact the worst part of the reason a lot of the positive reviews that the Wrangler 4xe are getting that the plug-in hybrid Wrangler a

01:49:24   lot of those positive reviews are positive because

01:49:26   The 4xe you don't really feel the engine start/stop because it's a hybrid system

01:49:31   Whereas all other Wranglers you feel it and everyone hates it because it sucks so principle of the matter stop start

01:49:38   I reject on principle even if I never feel it. I just know that it's happening

01:49:41   I say no you need to be burning gas constantly

01:49:46   Yeah, so again like it has it's just it's an old it's like a basic functioning car

01:49:52   So, you know the the key fob does have a little remote control buttons to like lock and unlock the doors by remote

01:49:58   So that's that it has that see yeah, it has that like capability, but that's it

01:50:02   Everything is have carplay. No, it does. However have a standard doubled in radio socket

01:50:09   Does it have Bluetooth?

01:50:10   So here here's the thing

01:50:11   So first of all, I don't know much about these cars, but I did know that everyone said like if you're gonna have a vehicle

01:50:17   On the beach for this purpose get the FJ because it's you know, it's better than the Wrangler for

01:50:20   The needs of most residents here. So great. Okay, other than that

01:50:24   I really didn't know much about the vehicle the first time that I get into it and I you know

01:50:29   I look around the controls. I notice right? There's no there's no navigation system

01:50:32   It's just like the stock head unit that just has like, you know, the regular, you know

01:50:35   LCD display that shows like, you know the seven segments of the numbers or whatever like it's not it doesn't have like a full

01:50:40   You know bitmap screen so there's no navigation system

01:50:43   But I did see like there's like a USB port and a line in on the bottom

01:50:48   Okay, so I can I can you know rig something up there. I ordered myself ProClip USA mount for my phone

01:50:53   I'm just gonna mouse up there with a mag safe puck and that's fine

01:50:55   I thought to like, you know, one of the flaws of the FJ is the visibility is not great and

01:51:01   Especially like, you know with the rear visibility if you're trying to like, you know do some parking maneuvers

01:51:05   It does actually have those beeping parking sensors like the proximity sensors for parking on the rear bumper

01:51:10   So that's nice

01:51:11   but I

01:51:13   Was thinking like the first thing I think I'm gonna get here is some kind of aftermarket backup camera because I'm spoiled now

01:51:18   I love backup cameras

01:51:19   I don't want to go without them and especially a vehicle that I'm not that familiar with I have to navigate around very tight

01:51:24   Streets and you know like navigating it on the island is terrifying

01:51:28   Actually on the streets because it's the streets here are so narrow and there's like houses built right up to the edge

01:51:34   It's it's terrifying. So again Lord over our children's

01:51:38   Yeah in my day we had to back up all these big vehicles with no rear visibility and no backup cameras. Yeah, exactly

01:51:44   So first thing I think like all right

01:51:46   I gotta get an aftermarket backup camera and then another thing like well

01:51:48   Maybe I'll maybe I'll also get like maybe I replace the head unit with a carplay head unit

01:51:52   Oh now we're talking right because it cuz you can do that. It's just you unscrew a few screws and you have the head unit

01:51:57   It's a standard double din

01:51:58   So and I already own one actually from my my carplay testing rig that I've actually since replaced with something better

01:52:04   So I have it. I already own an extra doubled in carplay head unit. That's just sitting around not being used

01:52:11   Like this is great. I could just pop it in and those usually have video inputs for backup cameras as well

01:52:17   So I think oh great I can rig that up. It should be no problem

01:52:20   I could have some local shop do it. I don't know how to do any of that stuff

01:52:22   I could have some local shop do it. It'll be fine. Do you actually want though?

01:52:26   I'm wondering I know what the interior looks like but like in a car this old

01:52:29   Is that is carplay actually better than your phone mounted on event because like if it's positioned really low in the dash

01:52:37   You're not gonna want to look at that

01:52:38   You rather look at your phone to be closer to your island

01:52:40   Like it's not made to be like current modern carplay things where the screen is like within your eye line

01:52:45   Where you just glance down at it. Is it like down in the floor? So it's it's low, you know

01:52:49   It's it's not it's not super super low, but it's not certainly ideal

01:52:53   So here's so as I was, you know, we transfer the car over I'm putting on the new license plates

01:52:59   and

01:53:00   I notice as I'm as I'm putting the license plate on because I was looking kind of eyeing the bumper to say like where I've read

01:53:06   Some forum posts ago

01:53:07   You can you can put a backup camera right in the middle of the rear bumper and it kind of looks nice with the parking sensors

01:53:12   And everything they're looking at that and I look up I notice

01:53:15   There is what appears to be a backup camera in the spare tire enclosure thing on the back of the car

01:53:20   There's no screen in the car though

01:53:22   Like so and I then did some research and learn that they added a backup camera to the FJ like in later model years

01:53:29   Oh great. Okay. I have the last year of it. So I have the newest thing. That's great

01:53:33   But there's no screen so I thought maybe the backup camera was only used if you optioned the navigation system

01:53:39   And so I'm like, all right

01:53:41   well

01:53:41   I guess let me let me figure out how to hook up the stock camera to a carplay head unit and I'll put that in I

01:53:48   Was looking at the manual

01:53:50   Casey because I had some questions about some of the off-road controls that I don't know anything about I'm stunned

01:53:56   So I was reading the manual and I noticed that there's a section about the back camera and it didn't have the asterisk

01:54:03   That said for all the all the optional equipment has the asterisk and that says if equipped

01:54:08   And the backup camera did not have the asterisk so it's standard

01:54:12   This is where Doug DeMuro needs to come in and show you all the quirks and features of your car

01:54:15   You don't know where the hidden screen is. Yes, so it turns so in all of my test driving of this car

01:54:22   I had never put it in reverse. I

01:54:25   Learned from the manual that when you put the car in reverse

01:54:29   It shows a tiny greeny little backup camera image in the rearview mirror. Yeah

01:54:35   Which apparently is a common thing on lots of cars that I've just never seen before

01:54:40   So that

01:54:44   I'm like, okay. I'm being I'm trying to be too smart about this

01:54:48   This is fine. It also already has Bluetooth on the radio

01:54:53   So I already have Bluetooth in a backup camera and a car mount for my phone. So that's it

01:54:59   I'm not gonna bother with carplay. I'm not gonna bother changing the head

01:55:02   You know

01:55:02   Just gonna keep the car stock as it is and just clip my phone to the to the dashboard like I do with my test

01:55:08   Because that's that's fine like that that gives me everything I want really

01:55:14   So it's yeah overall. It's even better than I thought

01:55:18   Others other notes before we end here. I was very pleased we used to be growing up

01:55:23   We were always a Toyota family, but I haven't owned a Toyota or driven one since

01:55:28   2002 maybe and I was very pleased when I got into this car that I already knew how to use the cruise control

01:55:36   Because it still works exactly the same way they that old cruise control stock

01:55:40   That's on Toyota's like with like, you know, the res and set and everything. It works exactly the same way

01:55:46   You mean it's not just tap on the navigation item on touchscreen then go to cruise control then go to the slide

01:55:52   Physical controls for the cruise control how barbaric that you can do that in one operation without looking

01:55:59   Yeah, so everything worked like it's a fully manual car except for the transmission, of course

01:56:06   Although honestly again for a moment going back to the transmission

01:56:10   First of all, I didn't actually mind the automatic transmission that much because I'm not driving this car in a sporty way

01:56:16   You got it. You got enough to worry about not getting stuck in the sand. Don't worry about shifting - I feel like automatic

01:56:21   It gives you one more thing

01:56:23   You know that you don't have to worry about you can concentrate on steering and throttle input and gives you one more Thunderbolt lane

01:56:28   Well, and that's the thing. I

01:56:30   think for off-road use

01:56:33   automatic might be better for me at least at being a relative amateur at off-road driving because what you often need is to

01:56:41   Start from a stop in a very slow way like to creep and that's really hard with a stick

01:56:46   Yeah, especially with my relatively sloppy stick technique. Like that's why they have a creeper gears on

01:56:51   This is the thing when people say off-road

01:56:54   They're picturing going up a mountain with rocks or whatever sand is an entirely different beast to deal with and you're not going to there

01:57:00   Just to be clear people to know what Long Island Beach is like. He's not going over boulders

01:57:04   No, no boulders here. It is sand. It is just sand

01:57:07   Yeah, lots of sand often very loosely packed and I have to go around but I had to pass a school bus

01:57:13   Which that was terrifying because it was it passed very close and speaking about what are the rules about?

01:57:21   Like how much of the beach is available for you to drive on it varies depending on like how much how much have storm was washed

01:57:28   Away recently, you know

01:57:29   But I'm saying can you go all the way down into the water and just like splash through the waves if you want to or is

01:57:34   That illegal it's not illegal. You will get stuck if you do like

01:57:37   I'm just like, you know

01:57:39   If you think like a car I'd go down there and sunset and speed through the hard-packed sand

01:57:45   With the spray coming behind you and then just trying to get stuck. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like you you don't want it to be wet

01:57:50   But you absolutely like you're you are allowed if you have this permit

01:57:55   You are allowed to drive on any part of the beach except for the dunes

01:57:58   Obviously if you want to if you want to really accelerate the corrosion of your vehicle, you could splash through the salt wall. Yeah, right

01:58:05   But yeah, so it was oh and there was also there was one scary moment too where I was

01:58:11   I was turning in one of like the like one of the inland but still sand

01:58:15   roadways and a truck was coming to the direction and I saw it had to pass me in a relatively small space and I tried to

01:58:23   Pull over a little bit like off to the right to give them more space the non-existent shoulder

01:58:28   Yeah, and my rear end fish tailed left very much towards them

01:58:33   Nice, so yeah this again

01:58:35   Terrifying and way harder of a drive than I expected. So yeah, I'm I still obviously if this permit happens

01:58:43   I still have a lot to learn about how to drive and I think a lot of that will just come with experience

01:58:47   But it was so much harder than I thought

01:58:50   So much harder do you eventually get on to the you know, you know what they have?

01:58:55   They just recently expanded this the place where you can take your RVs and stuff

01:58:58   No, I guess that's maybe not like Robert Moses somewhere. Yeah, I guess maybe they don't have that like it's that's not dissection fuck father

01:59:05   I'd ease the hip so there's the beach and then there's the dunes and then if you go farther out east on the south shore

01:59:11   they have beach dunes and then another sand road and then

01:59:15   RVs that are like that have views of the bay essentially, right? But that sand road

01:59:21   It's a road but it is not a road

01:59:23   It is just sand and that reminds me what you're talking about

01:59:25   It's so skinny where you see like these it's always pickup trucks pickup trucks are RVs

01:59:29   there are V's being pulled by pickup trucks and

01:59:31   two pickup trucks will be coming toward each other on that road and it's like there's no way two cars are gonna be able to

01:59:37   Pass each other because there's no room and it's just sand it's like feet deep

01:59:39   You know, like you're saying the ruts and you see them creep past each other and try to like squeeze by with you know

01:59:45   The big those whatever they're whatever those plants are in the dunes like scraping the sides of their fancy

01:59:50   $80,000 pickup trucks against the dunes as the deer chew on things and laugh

01:59:55   Anyway, I guess you don't have those roads

01:59:57   I'll have to go look at some satellite things see if they're around there

01:59:59   But but anyway, you're on the beach the whole time

02:00:00   There's no part where you sort of go to the other side of the dunes, but you're still on sand

02:00:04   No, there's both like so there's there is an interior route that drives through more towns

02:00:11   But it's just it's slower and tighter and there is still there are still sandy sections on that

02:00:17   But there's fewer sandy sections or you can you there's a couple of points where there's like little ramps

02:00:23   You can cross the dunes like sand ramps like but there's there's a couple like cuts through the dunes that you're allowed to drive through

02:00:28   That you know get you in and out of that area

02:00:30   And then you can drive on the beach the whole time as well if you want to so

02:00:33   But sometimes in the winter, especially like sometimes there's not enough Beach to drive on

02:00:39   And so everyone has to then use the interior route

02:00:42   So it's a whole thing and and you know, keep in mind that the context of this like the interior route

02:00:47   All the interior roads that is such that such as they are are one lane wide and even just barely that

02:00:55   And so if there's someone coming the other way

02:00:57   One of you just has to turn somewhere and let the other person pass or back up into like, you know

02:01:03   back up to the next street behind you and turn into that like and this is one of the reasons why like backup visibility is

02:01:08   pretty important for this this kind of driving because you often are having to

02:01:13   Back out of the street you're on to let some other vehicle go the other direction or something like that

02:01:18   And so it's it's it's not easy driving by any means

02:01:21   But yeah, it was it was very educational

02:01:25   You should consider a duck boat though because when the Atlantic Ocean punches through into the bay as it has as it has done

02:01:31   Multiple times in Long Island's history if you just go out east there various places where the ocean has punched through. Oh, yeah

02:01:37   There your road will end and you will need more than a sand permit to get out. Yeah

02:01:42   No at that point I think I'd get back on the ferry

02:01:43   I really feel like Fire Island is the geographic equivalent of an LG ultrafine 5k. It's great

02:01:50   Except that you occasionally can't get to the mainland and can't get food

02:01:54   It's great, but only certain people are allowed to drive and by the way, you have to drive on the sand

02:01:59   It's great, but it's going to sink into the ocean sometime in maybe Adams lifetime

02:02:05   It's not sinking of the ocean. The ocean is going over it. Oh, I'm sorry my mistake

02:02:10   Anyway, watch great asterisk dagger double asterisk double dagger cross double cross. No, it's just great

02:02:17   Is it though? Oh one more thing that I loved about the FJ here. I'm gonna send you a picture to the

02:02:22   controls for things like the ventilation system

02:02:27   they're a very small number of

02:02:30   Giant knobs and buttons. Yeah, imagine having a physical control for something. Isn't that?

02:02:38   Easy it is to use those things without thinking about it. They never move really easy to find

02:02:42   It was great because for for one of the drives it was cold

02:02:46   And so I was wearing gloves for most of the drive and it was no problem to operate these giant

02:02:52   Imagine that with gloves on it was great. Like it was just it was so

02:02:56   refreshing it was almost like you know

02:02:59   After having driven more modern cars for a while

02:03:02   It was like retro appeal, you know to have this like it's not accessibility is not retro

02:03:08   It's just good usability. Well that too but yeah, like oh man, it was so satisfying

02:03:12   You know, I just I'm just gonna turn this temperature knob slightly. All right, you need to turn the heat on

02:03:17   Oh, I just go over here and you know turn this a couple notches with my giant gloved hands and it's totally fine

02:03:22   Imagine that I can't wait until you end up buying another ice and another internal combustion car because you realize that

02:03:29   Yes, it is. Nice to have an electric powered car, but everything else about the Tesla's a pain in the ass

02:03:34   And so there's plenty of electric cars with physical controls like not everyone is on the same page as Tesla

02:03:39   That's how much should be physical and how much should be not like it

02:03:42   You can look at the car manufacturers that are getting a clue faster than others

02:03:46   But a few of them have already sort of gone back on their previous iterations and said nope

02:03:50   We're bringing back physical controls for climate. We're bringing back physical controls or cruise control and all that other stuff

02:03:55   So I have faith that people will figure it out eventually, but maybe not Tesla

02:04:00   Where's the AC outlet in the car like the vents? No, no, no, no, no

02:04:04   No, the alternating current outlet because I'm looking at a button in this oh, there's what there's an ACL in the trunk

02:04:09   That's pretty cool

02:04:10   Yeah

02:04:11   And as well as a giant subwoofer for some reason I get the other benefit of physical controls you get to have blanks for the features

02:04:17   that you're

02:04:19   Three blanks, but anyway, it's surprisingly nice. I it's the first time I've bought a gas car in forever

02:04:26   It's the first time I bought an automatic car in forever

02:04:28   It is not at all what I thought I would want to buy ever

02:04:34   But it's pretty nice like for what it is. It's got a round steering wheel - yeah, imagine that complete circle

02:04:43   Real easy when you like those turns. Yeah, it turns out this car is very easy to drive as a human

02:04:50   Which you still have to do a lot turns out

02:04:53   You

02:04:55   (door closes)

02:04:57   [ Silence ]