00:00:00 ◼ ► Why don't I save pants for next next show? Because I have I have I need to spend a little bit more time with my
00:00:10 ◼ ► Okay, and all the good stuff is in there we're not even in the bootleg all the good stuff is happening before the bootleg for God's sakes.
00:00:35 ◼ ► So if there is anyone in my life that does know I would like to know the secret please.
00:00:39 ◼ ► Even celebrities who are on some of the shows like cast members who are out promoting them and stuff like that.
00:00:58 ◼ ► occasionally, I've heard someone else like around me and I'll be like, oh, yeah this new show it's on Apple.
00:01:02 ◼ ► Mm-hmm. I guess we're stuck with that freezing for the rest of this products lifetime now.
00:01:16 ◼ ► it's even worse when I overhear other people trying to explain to each other how to watch an Apple TV+ show.
00:01:22 ◼ ► No one knows. No one even knows not only where to watch it, but no one even knows if they are
00:01:45 ◼ ► I'm not really ready for an upgrade yet. So, you know, I don't I don't have app. I don't have that.
00:02:09 ◼ ► you should go watch Ted Lasso or whatever. It's so hard because no one knows. Oh, yeah, it's on Apple.
00:02:15 ◼ ► Admittedly I've been programmed by Plex and I know that there are people in this world who think that Plex is a UX nightmare
00:02:21 ◼ ► and maybe you're right. I don't know. It is. But but for me Plex makes sense because what do I want to watch?
00:02:32 ◼ ► I go to the television section and then everything's sorted by title like adults would want.
00:02:37 ◼ ► Whereas Netflix and Apple TV+ are actively competing to see which one is more hostile and
00:02:47 ◼ ► Like I feel like the only way I've ever successfully watched Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ is by doing a
00:03:07 ◼ ► Hell the fact that I have to specify the Apple TV app on the Apple TV device is a UX nightmare to begin with.
00:03:12 ◼ ► It's just so bad. No wonder everyone's confused, right? Even nerds have a hard time keeping this stuff straight.
00:03:21 ◼ ► I thought that's what you were gonna say is what exactly what Casey said is like assuming you know
00:03:26 ◼ ► everything about the service and you subscribe to it and you've done all the things that I thought the problem was
00:03:36 ◼ ► like the way you would have to do it say I'm watching on my iPad. Well, there's like a black icon
00:03:47 ◼ ► that's probably the thing I have to tap to watch shows on Apple TV plus the service, right?
00:03:59 ◼ ► which as far as I'm aware is the only way to watch Apple TV plus shows am I correct in that?
00:04:21 ◼ ► It's trying to like be the one place you go for all your television except for Netflix, which is a pretty big except
00:04:26 ◼ ► Or Plex. Yeah, exactly. That's a much smaller except let's be honest. It is but it means something to me darn it
00:04:32 ◼ ► But if I just want to go there because that's the place where I go to watch Ted Lasso if Ted Lasso is not the banner
00:04:47 ◼ ► If you do want to narrow the field down to just the shows that Apple puts out you can tap this thing
00:04:51 ◼ ► But of course that just narrows it down to a subset of you know, like here's the Apple the Apple TV plus shows
00:05:00 ◼ ► Yeah, and then we talked about this in rectus like they don't have an equivalent of Netflix is my list
00:05:05 ◼ ► They have a thing called up next which tries to be similar but isn't really similar in lots of bad ways
00:05:09 ◼ ► But that I think is that the final hurdle is like say, you know everything about it. You've successfully subscribed to it
00:05:15 ◼ ► There is no icon you can press that just shows you the Apple TV plus shows which I think
00:05:22 ◼ ► I don't know if they have to decide whether they want to be the one app where you go for everything with these exceptions
00:05:31 ◼ ► This is called the Apple TV plus app that only shows those shows and leave the the quote-unquote TV app
00:05:37 ◼ ► To be there if people are because honestly I never I never go to the TV app to watch a Hulu show
00:05:56 ◼ ► Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think perhaps like the charitable read on this is that the Apple TV app is designed for people
00:06:04 ◼ ► Who are kind of omnivores and just want something to watch and they don't really give a crap
00:06:08 ◼ ► what because I feel like it would probably do pretty well in that scenario because it had it's very pretty and it highlights various and
00:06:18 ◼ ► I'm only opening that app if I specifically want to watch like Ted lasso or for all mankind or morning show or what have you and
00:06:29 ◼ ► Netflix seems to go back and forth between I haven't used the Netflix app in a little while now
00:06:33 ◼ ► But it seems to go back and forth between we will show you exactly what you want as though we're reading your mind
00:06:39 ◼ ► Here's a bunch of random crap and it's anyone's guess if I need to swipe up or down to get to the thing
00:06:52 ◼ ► We should probably move on we should talk about things that are happy and you know, what's happy
00:07:05 ◼ ► Before this show and there was a bunch of funny stuff that we didn't even get in the bootleg and I'm sorry about that
00:07:15 ◼ ► If you are an ATP member perhaps perhaps because you just bought a shirt or something like that, which by the way
00:07:22 ◼ ► You should be aware that not only do you get a bootleg which is of not the best audio quality
00:07:27 ◼ ► But you also get an ad free feed if you so desire and it seems like a lot of people weren't aware of that
00:07:37 ◼ ► Of course about the pre bootleg bootleg, but I am serious that there is a bootleg that is that is put up
00:07:46 ◼ ► The three of us will chitchat for five or ten minutes and usually by the time that call is done
00:07:52 ◼ ► if that's not your speed because the audio quality isn't the best and you know, we meander a lot and we you know
00:07:57 ◼ ► That Marco was a good editor for a reason because he cuts out the garbage and so there's a lot of garbage in the bootleg
00:08:03 ◼ ► Yeah, well also like the bootleg doesn't have usually full show notes yet. It definitely doesn't have chapters or anything like that
00:08:10 ◼ ► There's there's a lot of like production niceties that go into the final version that are not in the bootleg just because they take time
00:08:19 ◼ ► Listen to the bootleg if you so desire and you can do that somewhere between 12 and 24 hours before the show is released
00:08:26 ◼ ► You can also listen to an ad-free feed of the show if you so desire now, we like our sponsors
00:08:37 ◼ ► We allow them to sponsor us because we like them. I apologize for how obnoxious that sounds but you know, here I am
00:08:44 ◼ ► But if you don't want to listen to that you can get the ad free feed which is all of the same stuff that the regular
00:08:53 ◼ ► It's just less ads as in none and you can check that out as well if you're interested in that so ATP FM
00:09:04 ◼ ► When we launched membership if you if you look around the podcast landscape many people might have noticed
00:09:10 ◼ ► Lots of podcasts were launching paid membership programs around the same time and the reason why we launched it if you recall
00:09:22 ◼ ► It was it was like what it's June of like the COVID starts like a few months into the into the COVID shutdowns
00:09:33 ◼ ► Strife and and downturns and stuff and one of the things that happened was that a lot of advertisers
00:09:46 ◼ ► It was very hard to sell ads many people who had booked ads wanted to cancel them across the whole industry
00:09:54 ◼ ► And that's why you saw all these podcasters like us and like many that many of our friends and podcasters big and small
00:10:00 ◼ ► Launched membership programs because it just became much harder to sell ads in that time and we wanted kind of you know
00:10:06 ◼ ► A backup plan and an alternative. Well, I took this opportunity for any podcast that I actually listened to
00:10:20 ◼ ► It's not a required thing if you add up all the podcasts that you might listen to and all their you know
00:10:30 ◼ ► Obviously that's gonna be a decent amount of money to a lot of people and so this is not a required thing
00:10:40 ◼ ► I highly suggest buying the ad free feeds to any podcast that you regularly listen to because it's so nice
00:10:48 ◼ ► Because you know, we all know that most of you listen to most of the ads most of the time
00:10:54 ◼ ► We also know that many of you myself included might skip an ad if you've already heard it before
00:11:22 ◼ ► It's so nice to hear all your favorite shows or at least most not all of them even have this option
00:11:33 ◼ ► But most of your favorite shows offer this option now probably it's such a nice luxury to
00:11:39 ◼ ► Have your favorite shows and not have to skip an ad if you feel like it, you know every every 20 minutes or something
00:11:47 ◼ ► So while we love our sponsors and we're very thankful to them for providing what is honestly the bulk of our of our income here
00:12:01 ◼ ► I strongly suggest do it for your other podcast that you love that you listen to all the time. It's fantastic
00:12:15 ◼ ► But you know, they're playing like they're like a scrabble game or a solitaire game or just some you know
00:12:21 ◼ ► generic game checkers or Othello or whatever and there are ads all over the place and you see
00:12:26 ◼ ► you know as they say you see some relative playing this game over the course of weeks and you're like
00:12:31 ◼ ► Why don't you just pay the dollar and ninety nine cents to get rid of those ads because they're just they're obnoxious
00:12:38 ◼ ► They take up room on the screen if it's something that if it's an app that you play every single day
00:12:42 ◼ ► And just pay to get rid of the ads and then you find out you can't pay to get rid of the ads
00:12:46 ◼ ► There is no option to pay to get rid of the ads like seriously. You won't take my money like
00:12:55 ◼ ► If you if you download a checkers app once and play it a few times you don't want to pay for that
00:13:04 ◼ ► You will gladly pay five dollars even ten dollars just to never look at an ad so I feel like the same thing with ATP
00:13:10 ◼ ► If you know, you know, whatever it's a free show you listen to it. Whatever the ads are fine. You're getting you're getting it for free
00:13:17 ◼ ► But if you listen to it all the time and have listened for years and don't want to hear ads
00:13:22 ◼ ► There is an option for you to pay a small amount of money to not hear ads and that option
00:13:27 ◼ ► I'm very glad it exists for our show. Obviously any option like this takes effort to create and you know, it's not straightforward
00:13:35 ◼ ► so we already paid that cost but I kind of wish every every free thing on iOS in particular had the
00:13:45 ◼ ► The only other alternative you have is just live with the ads forever or try to find some other app and that's never fun
00:13:54 ◼ ► but it was brought to our attention that a lot of people didn't know that was the thing and so since we
00:14:02 ◼ ► Which we deeply deeply appreciate and despite what John says you can remain a member as long as you want
00:14:08 ◼ ► Then please feel free to check out any of these other feeds, but also check out our sponsors because they're genuinely also great
00:14:14 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by square space start building your website today at squarespace.com
00:14:21 ◼ ► Slash ATP and your offer code ATP at checkout to get 10% off make your next move with Squarespace
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00:14:36 ◼ ► Websites whether you have website making skill or whether you have no coding experience at all
00:14:42 ◼ ► Squarespace makes it super easy. Squarespace sites are always professionally designed regardless of your skill level again. There's no coding required anywhere here
00:14:50 ◼ ► There's all intuitive and easy to use tools to make them and I actually have extra experience more recently because in my household
00:15:01 ◼ ► So I had never used the storefront functionality before normally hosting a storefront on your own is
00:15:14 ◼ ► She did the entire thing and it's now a working storefront for shipping and physical goods around
00:15:19 ◼ ► You can also have storefronts for digital goods or you can make websites on Squarespace for other types of sites
00:15:24 ◼ ► Obviously you can make content sites podcast sites, you know business sites personal sites, whatever you need on Squarespace
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00:16:08 ◼ ► Thank you so much to Squarespace for sponsoring our show make your next move with Squarespace
00:16:20 ◼ ► Comparing Xcode build times using a stopwatch last week. Oh, yes. I should read my own show notes
00:16:28 ◼ ► Marco you do not need a stopwatch to time Xcode builds builds Apple provides command that you can run in the terminal which shows the
00:16:34 ◼ ► build time in the Xcode app after build the duration is shown in the activity viewer alongside the succeeded message and
00:16:40 ◼ ► We'll put this in the show notes, but it's defaults right com dot apple dot dt dot Xcode show build operation duration
00:16:48 ◼ ► It shows up exactly where you expect and it's pretty nice and my builds of my new thing
00:16:59 ◼ ► That the builds are like one to three seconds oftentimes because it's a new app and it's really small and that's pretty awesome
00:17:13 ◼ ► I actually I never knew this was there because normally when I'm normally testing Xcode build times
00:17:18 ◼ ► Usually I will use from the terminal the Xcode build command. Yes, and and I would just use the time command
00:17:26 ◼ ► So I'll say time space Xcode build and then you know, my giant project path and everything else
00:17:30 ◼ ► So that's usually how I time it which is obviously way more precise than using my iPhone stopwatch
00:17:39 ◼ ► visually, you know, that's but the reason I didn't do it for these tests with the new MacBook Pros is that I had there were
00:17:46 ◼ ► Some kind of weird code signing thing that I couldn't get to work in Xcode build. So I ended up timing
00:17:51 ◼ ► Simulator builds from Xcode so knowing about this actually would have helped that so thank you for writing this in and I will do this next
00:18:14 ◼ ► There was a blog post about this at electric light, excuse me eclectic light that talks about this John. You want to walk us through this?
00:18:23 ◼ ► Memory leak bug but there was enough people going posing screenshots of like their activity monitor showing
00:18:38 ◼ ► It says your system is pretty much out of memory. You should probably kill one of these apps
00:18:47 ◼ ► Bug in Apple's framework that is a memory leak and it apparently has to do with setting the cursor
00:18:52 ◼ ► Specifically, I think if you use the accessibility features to change your cursor to something non-standard like a little bit bigger version of it or whatever
00:18:59 ◼ ► And you wouldn't think this would cause too much of a memory leak because cursors are small and so what maybe you're leaking a cursor
00:19:06 ◼ ► Image here and there but there are tiny little images. How are you gonna use gigabytes of that?
00:19:18 ◼ ► Like when you go over a link you have you get the little, you know, Mickey Mouse finger
00:19:32 ◼ ► So the cursor does actually change a lot when you're just browsing the web. You're not doing anything
00:19:36 ◼ ► You're just moving the mouse, but the cursor is changing right? And the second thing is
00:19:47 ◼ ► so it could be that the Firefox application is calling the API to set the cursor to something when it already is that cursor because
00:19:54 ◼ ► Most you know, it's usually a good practice to do lots of bookkeeping to say now I only want to set the cursor to the
00:20:03 ◼ ► Conditional in there and you don't want to do the bookkeeping to try to keep track of whether it's the arrow cursor or not
00:20:07 ◼ ► It's much easier to just say when the mouse enters this region set the cursor to the arrow cursor
00:20:13 ◼ ► Even if it's about to enter another region where you're also going to send it to the arrow cursor
00:20:16 ◼ ► So it could be that the app is calling set cursor many many many more times than you notice
00:20:22 ◼ ► It's just that most of the time it's setting the cursor to the image that it already is
00:20:29 ◼ ► It could be leaking lots and lots and lots of cursor images to the tune of multiple megabytes of RAM over the course of a day
00:20:35 ◼ ► Of using so this this bug has been found. It's been registered with Apple. Apparently it's reproducible
00:20:45 ◼ ► But I was excited to see this because it's great when a bug is actually found and reproduced because that means it can be fixed
00:20:51 ◼ ► Amen to that. All right Marco continuing our multi-week journey of your grab bag of mini topics. What do you have for us this week?
00:21:22 ◼ ► This is not a recent thing. It seems it seems to have been like a a slow descent into not working very well
00:21:40 ◼ ► I love being a home pod family on lots of different levels for lots of different reasons
00:21:49 ◼ ► I the other systems just seem like it's cheap garbage products run by oftentimes cheap garbage II companies
00:21:56 ◼ ► And with you know questionable privacy and and law enforcement cooperation kind of stuff
00:22:05 ◼ ► Home pod ecosystem and in the home kit ecosystem and you get all these wonderful integrations there
00:22:27 ◼ ► and this is why I like the home pod and the sound quality that you get out of the home pod products is
00:22:33 ◼ ► Way better than what you get from other products at comparable sizes. I should clarify for
00:22:39 ◼ ► Purposes of music playback. I strongly suggest a stereo pair whether you're using the big ones or the small ones
00:22:45 ◼ ► But the the big a stereo pair of the big home pods while it cost an arm and a leg back when they were new
00:23:14 ◼ ► Is a nice match for it like, you know size and sound wise two home pod minis in this context would not be very good
00:23:47 ◼ ► Significantly slower I think certain commands that you tell them they again. They've never been fast. The home pod mini is
00:23:53 ◼ ► again, not a fast product but substantially noticeably faster than the full-size home pod and
00:24:00 ◼ ► The full-size one I think has just gotten slower to respond with Siri and has gotten less reliable
00:24:06 ◼ ► especially it'll it'll have issues like, you know, obviously you say hey dingus stop or hey dingus play or you know,
00:24:15 ◼ ► It'll wait and then it'll duck the music down and then it'll think about it and then I'll say okay, you know, whatever
00:24:26 ◼ ► It'll say okay playing, you know, whatever and you'll have like eight seconds of silence before the whatever track starts
00:24:34 ◼ ► There's just there's a lot of slowness to the full-size home pods some of which was always there some of which is
00:24:42 ◼ ► The bigger problem is that the iOS 15 series I think and whatever corresponding versions of home pod OS or audio
00:24:55 ◼ ► Seems to have made airplay support way worse on the full-size home pod than it ever has been
00:25:00 ◼ ► It almost doesn't work anymore. And this is this is very disruptive. It used to be that I could
00:25:15 ◼ ► It would be great because I could do things like as I'm like working on the counter if I have like my iPad there
00:25:19 ◼ ► I could just like hit the volume down button to change the home pod volume and not have to like
00:25:23 ◼ ► Go over and tap the home pod or use a voice command. That would be slow and take forever
00:25:27 ◼ ► So that kind of thing was great and that's all done through airplay also if you want to know what song is playing
00:25:33 ◼ ► You could just check control center or open the music app and you would see what song is playing on your device
00:25:41 ◼ ► That's also good. If you want to do things like say add that song to a playlist very very useful integration
00:25:50 ◼ ► Lot of those things have gotten buggier in the last few months to the point where they barely work at all anymore
00:25:59 ◼ ► The old home pods in any airplay groupings with any other speakers the Sonos amp that's on the side of the the floor or
00:26:07 ◼ ► Home pod minis like whatever it is. They don't play well with others anymore with airplay. It's it's gotten very frustrating and
00:26:24 ◼ ► One of them will occasionally just drop out. It'll just stop playing audio for I don't know 45 seconds
00:26:31 ◼ ► Maybe and then then it might rejoin the group cool. I assume it's rebooting itself maybe
00:26:41 ◼ ► Popping sound as if the woofer maybe like gets like a bad signal like a big loud bass pop
00:26:54 ◼ ► Home pods dying like that the full-size ones another thing I've heard I haven't verified this myself yet
00:27:05 ◼ ► They've because they've been discontinued for long enough that they literally don't have any to replace them with or at least they're not replacing them
00:27:31 ◼ ► you know all-in-one kind of speaker that can also work in a stereo pair and looks nice enough in the kitchen and doesn't have a
00:27:48 ◼ ► they're not working as well as they were before due to what seems like software issues and
00:27:56 ◼ ► I can't replace them with anything comparable because nothing comparable exists on the market today
00:28:09 ◼ ► Inexpensive and is only maybe three years old the ones with the ones I have maybe something like that three me four at the most
00:28:16 ◼ ► I would expect a longer lifespan out of something like this. It doesn't have a lot of computing needs. It doesn't have a lot of
00:28:27 ◼ ► so there's no reason for this product to degrade over only a handful of years to a point where it breaks or is
00:28:33 ◼ ► not very good at its primary functions, that's it needs a longer lifespan than that and
00:29:06 ◼ ► Hat like how it doesn't even doesn't even have dedicated woofer and something like that. Like there's just there's weird
00:29:23 ◼ ► I know there aren't many of them out there, but they're really good for those of us who have them
00:29:27 ◼ ► Okay, so please fix the software so they can be at least as good as they were when we bought them
00:29:36 ◼ ► Continue the HomePod line and expand it give us a replacement for this product if it's not going to work very well
00:29:43 ◼ ► Or if the software that you want to make is too slow to run and it's I think has like a little a8 processor in there
00:29:53 ◼ ► It will eventually need to be upgraded give us an upgrade because I want this product line to continue it is
00:29:59 ◼ ► For my purposes, which I know is not everyone's but for my purposes it is the best product line out there for this
00:30:16 ◼ ► Please make them work and please let this product line continue because when my HomePods die
00:30:36 ◼ ► I'm gonna be very sad when that happens because there literally is nothing else in the market to replace them
00:30:47 ◼ ► So we you know put screens imports in the back of the house a few months ago now and I got a oh
00:30:53 ◼ ► Shoot, it's a Belkin sound for sound source. I put in the show notes. Basically. It's a hundred dollar box
00:31:00 ◼ ► that's kind of what the airport Express used to be, you know what I mean where it's an airplay receiver and almost nothing else and
00:31:05 ◼ ► And and it works really well for the most part. It's not perfect, of course, but it works pretty well from those part
00:31:12 ◼ ► But the problem that I'm having is it is not infrequent that I will put like a concert on typically on Plex
00:31:18 ◼ ► But I'll put some video on the Apple TV, which is on the other side of the screen in porch
00:31:27 ◼ ► What's a video on the Apple TV, but I wanted to be broadcast not only in the living room, but also in the
00:31:31 ◼ ► Screened in porch, you know via this Belkin sound whatever whatever and I haven't done enough testing to see if this is a Plex problem or a
00:31:45 ◼ ► but if I'm doing something with video and I try to broadcast to both the speakers that the Apple TV typically plays through and
00:31:53 ◼ ► An airplay receiver it doesn't work for squat. It will only play outside and it will not play inside
00:32:00 ◼ ► It maybe this is user error, but I don't feel like this is a complex operation to accomplish for me
00:32:08 ◼ ► Like if I'm playing using the Sirius XM app on the Apple TV or from playing Apple music or whatever. It works great
00:32:14 ◼ ► every time it works great and I could adjust volumes independently and everything works as it's supposed to but when the
00:32:19 ◼ ► Sources video rather than audio it never works and I actually have been meaning to ask a friend of the show Ryan
00:32:24 ◼ ► Ryan Jones about this because he was the one who pushed me to do this sort of setup and I think he was mostly right
00:32:32 ◼ ► So if you if you have a secret people, please reach out let me know because I'd love to know
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00:34:30 ◼ ► We have some other Ryan Jones related follow-up though, don't we? Yes, actually good good good segue
00:34:46 ◼ ► Well, it's good because he he got it got sunset in a happy way, didn't it? Yes, exactly
00:35:07 ◼ ► I love that so much even at times where the app like was not as competitive with other apps in terms of certain features
00:35:25 ◼ ► Ryan Jones the the main maker of weather line announced that it had been acquired and that they were shutting it down
00:35:31 ◼ ► Because the company that acquired it like it wasn't the kind of thing where they're just gonna keep it running like they bought it for
00:35:38 ◼ ► It was gonna be shut down and we had to find new apps, you know soon and weather line. I think it's gonna run
00:35:53 ◼ ► I decided I should probably start planning for this and I probably shouldn't write my own
00:36:05 ◼ ► I would probably just make a clone of weather line and that's not a great way to spend my time either
00:36:11 ◼ ► So I figured that's not a good idea and I decided, you know, I've always heard that carrot weather
00:36:27 ◼ ► like I had it installed for a while and I even paid the premium stuff so I could use certain features because I
00:36:44 ◼ ► It's this, you know, this design is not it doesn't fit me as well as weather lines design and I would close it
00:36:49 ◼ ► That'd be it now that weather line has a definite end and is I'm kind of forced to go elsewhere
00:36:59 ◼ ► fully switching over to it move weather line off my front screen take off its widget get like
00:37:21 ◼ ► It gives you which I always knew that was an option like you can have it be really snarky with the text and everything or you
00:37:25 ◼ ► Can turn that down and have it just be neutral and tell you the data. It's also though. This was news to me
00:37:42 ◼ ► It used to be I think a little bit but now it's it's like a calculator construction kit sort of thing
00:37:56 ◼ ► Certain views that are that are kind of weather line like it doesn't have an exact match probably for many reasons
00:38:03 ◼ ► You know that would probably be in poor taste, but for a competitor to you know, clone your UI completely
00:38:14 ◼ ► Which for me it is like that's how I want to see my hourly graph. So I kind of got close to weather line
00:38:34 ◼ ► Like it's it has like, you know, good good, you know business morals behind it great development great design
00:38:43 ◼ ► Like it's it's just a very well done app and my god the features there is so much there
00:39:02 ◼ ► I had this I had this concept idea that of like an app I could make or some day or that I wanted to make
00:39:13 ◼ ► But you know, I was kind of picturing like an app that would just show a card or something that
00:39:21 ◼ ► Priorities between different conditions that might occur and have it only display one of these things
00:39:31 ◼ ► Okay, if I don't have a time running I don't want an icon that says set like I just want
00:39:54 ◼ ► But only when it's raining if the chance of precipitation is zero, I don't care about it. I
00:40:00 ◼ ► Care a lot if the UV index is above like five, but I don't care all winter when it's zero to one
00:40:09 ◼ ► There's there's all sorts of conditions like this in weather so here at the beach wind is a very big issue
00:40:16 ◼ ► Like wind is something that in like in my regular previous suburban life. I never cared about wind. It was never a big deal here
00:40:23 ◼ ► I care a lot if it's gonna be windy tonight because that means like I might have to move stuff inside or take other
00:40:29 ◼ ► Preparations because windy here does not mean windy in the suburbs windy here is a whole new thing
00:40:36 ◼ ► So carrot weather allows you in a few places in the app including and recently in a watch complication
00:40:52 ◼ ► This value is going to be above this range or if this is gonna happen in the next 12 hours or whatever
00:41:00 ◼ ► You can also have that notify you and you can tell it when to tell you what range to look at
00:41:07 ◼ ► So for instance now I have one that every evening it will tell me if the wind is gonna be above a certain speed
00:41:16 ◼ ► Maybe I should bring the trash cans in so they don't blow it on the street or something like that
00:41:28 ◼ ► like so I'm kind of burying weather line with this massive party for carrot weather, but
00:41:34 ◼ ► But I think also, you know as Casey as you just said like a lot of these features are pretty new to the app
00:41:48 ◼ ► I strongly recommend that you get care at weather and you pay for the annual whatever cost to get all the cool features
00:41:54 ◼ ► Because it's so so good highly recommend them strong agree on everything. You just said care whether
00:42:08 ◼ ► Since like five plus years ago because care whether has been out a fair bit of time at this point and I feel like you know
00:42:14 ◼ ► It's carrot weather. It's overcast. It's tweet bot gift wrapped like off top my head amongst indie apps
00:42:39 ◼ ► It's one of those situations where it's it's an app that also makes me incredibly angry because it's Brian Mueller right that wrote it
00:42:49 ◼ ► His education is nowhere near computer science or anything like it and he is so much better at his job that I am in my
00:42:57 ◼ ► So annoying because he is incredibly talented at not only the code but also the design and
00:43:07 ◼ ► It's it's infuriating in the best possible way to see how good one individual can be at doing everything
00:43:14 ◼ ► Like server-side stuff, you know local on-device stuff. It's just it's so good. It's so well done. It's I cannot recommend it enough
00:43:22 ◼ ► It's a great app to other weather app recommendations. I also used weather line for a long time
00:43:27 ◼ ► And I was looking for replacements. One of the ones I came upon is called weather strip. It's very similar to by the line
00:43:50 ◼ ► It doesn't have all the details of you know, the fancier weather apps. It doesn't have lines like weather strip does
00:44:02 ◼ ► Or if you've given up on the Apple and you thought it was too simple. The new version is pretty nice
00:44:06 ◼ ► And then we should also talk about one other quick follow-up piece we've gotten feedback
00:44:18 ◼ ► 2020 MacBook Pro is gone. It is at its new home. And as far as I know everything's going well
00:44:27 ◼ ► And I'm genuinely sad about it because I mean obviously I would say this because I'm trying to sell it
00:44:31 ◼ ► Nevertheless like hand to God. I love that iMac Pro so much. I really really do. It's such an incredibly nice computer
00:44:40 ◼ ► And I'm sad that that it's not on my desk anymore, but I will be unloading that very soon
00:44:52 ◼ ► I think Marco in particular brought up eBay a little while ago saying oh it works pretty well for Marco and
00:45:11 ◼ ► Tries to return it but will just accidentally take the RAM out or the SSD out or something like that
00:45:25 ◼ ► I have no personal experience with this one way the other but it is something to consider and
00:45:39 ◼ ► But I'll probably put it on Twitter like I did the MacBook Pro and see if anyone bites and if not
00:45:47 ◼ ► And I've heard many many people say that the fees on swap are great and the people are typically great and it's usually a much
00:45:54 ◼ ► Better option than eBay again. I have no personal experience either way. I'm just telling you what we're being told
00:46:19 ◼ ► You know the sellers a scammer in almost every case the credit card company will side with the buyer
00:46:25 ◼ ► And most will issue a charge back to the vendor or seller and that's why places like eBay or PayPal
00:46:31 ◼ ► Like if there's a dispute the buyer will win the dispute if they if they make a big enough stink like that. So
00:46:42 ◼ ► Now there are a few exceptions. So there are certain ways that you can accept payment where
00:46:49 ◼ ► The buyer is basically handing you cash in the digital form. So obviously yes crypto blah blah. I don't care also
00:46:56 ◼ ► There's like the PayPal goods and services method of sending Venmo has a way to send where it's kind of like cash
00:47:02 ◼ ► Either Apple pay cash you can pay for things where the buyer has no recourse whatsoever if the transaction doesn't go very well
00:47:09 ◼ ► Obviously most buyers don't want to do that, especially if they don't know you so this is one area where you know
00:47:16 ◼ ► We mentioned before about how you selling on Twitter if you can get somebody to like, you know
00:47:20 ◼ ► Do the the goods and services method on PayPal or one of these one of these cash based methods?
00:47:27 ◼ ► But it's also better for you in that they can't scam you out of out of the item in some way
00:47:32 ◼ ► The downside is that they have to trust you, you know to do that and that's not gonna be possible for all the transactions again
00:47:40 ◼ ► This is one of the things where if you want to be guaranteed not to get scammed trade it into Apple
00:47:48 ◼ ► Sometimes even then like they will they will receive your item and they'll say hey actually the screen has a chip in it
00:48:03 ◼ ► If you know, it wasn't chipped get it back and try some other option or give it away or something
00:48:08 ◼ ► But anyway, if you want to minimize the risks of like humans trying to scam you intentionally
00:48:24 ◼ ► Sometimes you might get screwed but most of the time it will work. So that's you know in my experience
00:48:30 ◼ ► I haven't run into any scam buyers. I haven't sold a ton of things on eBay, but I have sold, you know
00:48:41 ◼ ► But you know, it's it's a gamble and John your attic is just about to crumble from the weight of all of your old computers
00:48:51 ◼ ► I'm ready to get rid of any of them. They're gonna be worth nothing. So I'll have to pay someone to take them away
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00:49:11 ◼ ► Linode is a cloud host. This is what used to be called a VPS host or you know a compute host or whatever
00:49:18 ◼ ► This is what you know modern servers are and I've been a Linode customer for almost a decade now
00:49:26 ◼ ► for my app backends or for any kind of custom CMS or any kind of custom in the cloud service that I want to run and
00:49:35 ◼ ► They have amazing capabilities from big to small from cheap to very high-end if you need it
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00:50:52 ◼ ► We have been intending to talk about Facebook and meta for a long time and the time has come so
00:51:09 ◼ ► Actually really don't have that much to say about this I don't feel like I am clairvoyant enough
00:51:19 ◼ ► the one thing I will say is that it's been interesting reading Ben Thompson's coverage and will link to the
00:51:27 ◼ ► One thing that has been fascinating to watch speaking of subscription things that are absolutely worth the money
00:51:50 ◼ ► Perception of presence is so strong even though it's all virtual and there's and especially in these unprecedented times
00:51:57 ◼ ► There's something to be said for that and and I I don't have any interest in putting together
00:52:02 ◼ ► Either a VR rig or whatever the one is where it's all standalone, but it's like 600 bucks or something like that
00:52:11 ◼ ► I don't have the desire to spend 300 thousand, but is it only three that's actually not as bad
00:52:15 ◼ ► Yeah, the quest you're talking about the quest to rather. Yeah, that's the one we have. It's all standalone wireless. Yeah, it's great
00:52:20 ◼ ► That's not as bad as I thought I'd say I take it slightly back then but um, let me remind you that my iMac pros on
00:52:27 ◼ ► I I would like to try that sort of thing even though I don't have much of an occasion to meet with people anymore
00:52:36 ◼ ► Get real big, you know ready player one vibes from this and and and that's not necessarily bad
00:52:48 ◼ ► So presumably John you have some thoughts about it. Yeah, the combination of this and Facebook is
00:52:54 ◼ ► Interesting to me. So first of you'll know we're talking about the whole metaverse thing. It's basically as Casey was looking to it's like
00:53:08 ◼ ► You can go to a slack room or a discord and chat with other people and have different channels
00:53:13 ◼ ► And you can you can play an online game where a bunch of people are in an instance together wandering around
00:53:19 ◼ ► They have avatars with equipment and stuff and like but why is that not the metaverse all these things that we have in the world
00:53:24 ◼ ► of computing what what's the difference in that in the metaverse the main difference is the metaverse is focused on a
00:53:32 ◼ ► so the screens are right in front of your eyeballs and when you turn your head you look around and
00:53:42 ◼ ► You know all the things that you can do online you can shop you can talk to people you can play a game
00:53:50 ◼ ► You know all the things that you can do and all the different work and play things but with this new
00:53:59 ◼ ► Which is the screens on your face and the idea of presence where it feels like you're there because when you're an actual place you
00:54:04 ◼ ► Can look left look right and when someone talks at you the sound comes from where they are and hits your ears
00:54:09 ◼ ► And if you're far away from people they're quiet and if you're close they're louder and you can go places and do things and anyway
00:54:37 ◼ ► You know has renamed their parent whatever and you know kind of like Google did with alphabet
00:54:46 ◼ ► Business sideshow of that that I don't want to get particularly into but I think it's enough to say that Facebook
00:55:11 ◼ ► And you know if there was time before Facebook there were other things that were similar like myspace
00:55:19 ◼ ► The folks who run Facebook are smart enough to know that Facebook isn't necessarily forever
00:55:26 ◼ ► It may be skewing older people who just decide one day that Facebook is done, and there is something that is similar
00:55:34 ◼ ► That's a better replacement and Facebook is trying to say well if someone's gonna replace
00:55:39 ◼ ► The blue app with something else it should be us and we think this whole metaverse idea might be it
00:55:45 ◼ ► So let's rename the parent company meta and let's start working on this. We still love Facebook
00:55:50 ◼ ► We still love you know selling access to you to advertisers. That's how we make all our money
00:56:05 ◼ ► But in the meantime if there's gonna be something that replaces Facebook Facebook should start working on it and Mark Zuckerberg
00:56:11 ◼ ► Zuckerberg apparently is totally into the whole idea of the metaverse because maybe he's
00:56:16 ◼ ► Read too many science fiction novels so that's that that's like why is Facebook. Why is Facebook doing this now?
00:56:22 ◼ ► Why are you know? Why do they feel like they have to do this? I think in general. It's having a hedge is smart
00:56:31 ◼ ► That the blue app is forever and because they have billions of users they will always have billions of users
00:56:51 ◼ ► Instagram or whatever you know or even not really Twitter because that's that's all for old people these days, but
00:56:58 ◼ ► It is possible for a new thing to come out and grab the hearts and minds of the younger people
00:57:13 ◼ ► Facebook and the vet averse thing you know this is not a new idea and when I look at all the press that Facebook is
00:57:35 ◼ ► If there was going to be one company or any company pick a company you think is going to have a good chance
00:57:40 ◼ ► At bringing the metaverse into existence. I would never pick the company that it just has never been good at making
00:57:48 ◼ ► Consumer hardware software products Facebook has tried to make a lot of stuff in its time and they bought oculus
00:57:55 ◼ ► Which is good. They didn't try to make that themselves right, but this is not their strength
00:57:59 ◼ ► To you know to realize the metaverse there is a very important hardware component in fact some would argue
00:58:05 ◼ ► It's the most important component because it's the one we haven't figured out how to do yet
00:58:15 ◼ ► Billions of people are going to wear something like that all day long it would have happened already if we were at the point where?
00:58:22 ◼ ► The hardware wasn't the issue all right once we got you know forget about smartphones once we got
00:58:31 ◼ ► Seemingly overnight the whole world had cell phones then of course smartphones ever. I'm just talking about a plain old dumb
00:58:38 ◼ ► When they were huge and expensive and the size of bricks are only worked in your car billions of people didn't have them eventually
00:58:50 ◼ ► Big company back then and I was like oh now everyone has a cell phone because we cross that barrier
00:58:54 ◼ ► We're not there with VR. What VR does now even the expensive cool ones like the highest end stuff is not compelling enough
00:59:00 ◼ ► For the world to buy it either because it's too big and uncomfortable or because it's too expensive
00:59:16 ◼ ► We need to figure out how to get pixels into your eyeballs and sensors all around you so we can tell where you're looking
00:59:22 ◼ ► In a reasonable way with good resolution and good latency with a reasonable price like all you have to cross all those thresholds
00:59:28 ◼ ► And I would never pick Facebook as my horse to bet on that's gonna crack this problem because they're so bad at this
00:59:40 ◼ ► They bought oculus which was smart because they were the leader in the space at the time
00:59:44 ◼ ► But oculus hasn't crossed that threshold either they were mostly catering to high-end gamers and now you know these more low-end things
00:59:53 ◼ ► I don't even think it's something that people want to wear while they sit their desk eight hours a day let alone
00:59:57 ◼ ► something as transformative as a smartphone that people carry with them all the time everywhere wherever they go and
01:00:08 ◼ ► comfortable and normal to use as sitting in front of a laptop and I would say if you want it should probably
01:00:21 ◼ ► And it feels like you know extension of themselves, and you know the most personally device your own which
01:00:34 ◼ ► With you know with a VR headset on their face because the hardware is not there and the battery life isn't there and the network connection
01:00:41 ◼ ► Isn't there there's so many things that are missing and although Ben Thompson may enjoy
01:00:46 ◼ ► Sharing a spreadsheet and sitting down at a virtual table with a bunch of cartoon avatars because it's a cool fun experience
01:00:55 ◼ ► Compelling enough that there's going to be billions of people wanting to do that because there was they'd be doing it right now
01:01:08 ◼ ► Mass market yet, and I don't and I read article after article about Facebook Facebook wants to do made a meta Facebook wants to make
01:01:17 ◼ ► Why are we even it's like if Apple said they wanted to do an amazing social network like we would laugh at them
01:01:30 ◼ ► If you said you're going to be the next great social network that's gonna surpass all the existing ones
01:01:35 ◼ ► We wouldn't have story after story, you know, it's stars in their eyes saying Apple soon to usher in a new era of social networking
01:01:45 ◼ ► And I don't understand why people are taking Facebook seriously Facebook who want this all they want
01:01:50 ◼ ► But they just don't have the skill set they need to buy more companies or get better this stuff real fast
01:02:07 ◼ ► Like maybe eventually the technology gets good enough that even if Facebook is crappy at making hardware and software
01:02:14 ◼ ► The real barrier is the billions of users because that's just harder to get and takes longer and is more of a barrier than you know
01:02:25 ◼ ► Maybe but at the very least I feel like almost any story about Facebook in the metaverse
01:02:30 ◼ ► Should at least touch on the idea that historically Facebook has been terrible about everything you need to do for the metaverse
01:02:35 ◼ ► I think they're terrible at all the of the software parts of it too because there's nothing about
01:02:45 ◼ ► Persistent online 3d world that they lovingly curate and care for so that it's a place people want to spend time
01:02:52 ◼ ► people barely want to spend time on a series of web pages shown through a little iOS app because it's just a
01:03:08 ◼ ► Facebook has changed and totally altered the way their product worse and it worked and you know switched around all their technologies
01:03:20 ◼ ► And on the flip side of that who has been good about doing any kind of metaverse type stuff
01:03:27 ◼ ► On the software side you have the people who have been doing it best are essentially people who run online gaming services
01:03:39 ◼ ► Even in very narrowly defined things arguably even something like destiny where it's incredibly narrowly defined as very little you can do
01:03:48 ◼ ► it's just a very narrowly defined slice of the world even that like to have a company that understands how to
01:03:58 ◼ ► These are paying customers who which Facebook can't do because they have billions of people and billions of people aren't going to pay you
01:04:07 ◼ ► To build a space a 3d space with presence or whatever and to nurture that over the years
01:04:21 ◼ ► Preserving people's investment in that 3d space making it feel like a place where people want to be and want to invest their time
01:04:27 ◼ ► That's what online games do and it's really really hard and one of the main activities of
01:04:37 ◼ ► You know reacting strongly to cases where people do bad things bad actors people griefing in games people hacking in games
01:04:47 ◼ ► You know making the game worse for other people does this start to sound familiar Facebook does not stop this and Facebook
01:04:54 ◼ ► Facebook lets all the worst behavior happen because it means more engagement because it means more time online because it means I can they can sell
01:05:08 ◼ ► Metiversity type place with presence setting aside the VR just saying 3d persistent world where people go and spend hours and want to spend time
01:05:14 ◼ ► There if you look at all those things, it's mostly gaming companies and they act very differently than Facebook and then on the hardware side
01:05:21 ◼ ► You know again that Facebook is not known for its hardware innovation whether it's very fast low power
01:05:27 ◼ ► CPUs great API's with you know for 3d and native apps they bought oculus. I feel like they've
01:05:36 ◼ ► Mishandled oculus, let's say and that they didn't they didn't stick with catering to the hardcore gamers
01:05:44 ◼ ► but then they made people sign in with their Facebook account and that was a mistake and it's just kind of like
01:05:49 ◼ ► made people who were previously big oculus fans less so while not replacing them with people who are equally enthusiastic from
01:05:57 ◼ ► The you know the broader market they did a little bit of that like there there is has some been some give-and-take there
01:06:03 ◼ ► but I think they've kind of seeded the high-end space to like the what the valve index or whatever that thing is called and
01:06:13 ◼ ► Equivalently large enthusiastic group of people who spend eight hours a day with their quest on their face taking meetings or whatever
01:06:20 ◼ ► And you know again setting aside the idea that that meetings are the ultimate incarnation of this and you know looking at the evidence of
01:06:26 ◼ ► Where do people where historically where have people chosen to spend lots of the time online in IRC channels in Mudd's and mush's?
01:06:41 ◼ ► And they also have nothing in common with a virtual like meeting room where someone can show a spreadsheet on the wall. So
01:06:48 ◼ ► I guess what is the I'm bearish on Facebook and the metaverse I could never get it, right
01:06:55 ◼ ► I always get a ball is one the one where you're enthusiastic about it. The bear is where you think yeah
01:07:04 ◼ ► Which is good because I hate Facebook and don't want them to realize this vision and really want someone else to figure out how to
01:07:08 ◼ ► Do this before they do because Facebook is terrible at maintaining spaces where people want to be
01:07:14 ◼ ► Also think the technology to get this over the hump is a lot farther off than people think it is
01:07:20 ◼ ► But in the meantime if you want to have any of the experiences that are promised for the metaverse
01:07:25 ◼ ► You can get all that except for for the most part the 3d VR presence thing in other places
01:07:44 ◼ ► more of a sense of community and quote unquote presence without any a VR without an even graphics even just like
01:07:50 ◼ ► Use net groups that have had more quote unquote presence and community than the metaverse. So I feel to some degree I feel like it's like
01:07:58 ◼ ► chasing something that already exists because now there's a way to sort of make it strategically important and fancy and
01:08:10 ◼ ► Has always been a valuable thing to do will continue to be a valuable thing to do is very difficult to do and requires
01:08:17 ◼ ► Making essentially the opposite decision that Facebook has ever made anytime. They've been faced with any kind of decision Wow
01:08:25 ◼ ► I didn't even think about that like when I was thinking about, you know, the possibility of this actually coming to
01:08:40 ◼ ► to to meta like obviously there's lots of potential reasons why Facebook might have wanted to
01:08:46 ◼ ► Make some kind of bigger overarching brand for their properties that had that was different than the name Facebook
01:08:53 ◼ ► Obviously, there's lots of cynical reasons Facebook has not a great reputation among lots of people
01:09:03 ◼ ► unevenly popular I would say and definitely seems to be very uncool among young people and more left-leaning people and
01:09:12 ◼ ► That's you know, when you're when your audience is mostly older that's not great for your future prospects of brand equity
01:09:20 ◼ ► So that's that's obviously one big problem. They have they have more recent problems of you know
01:09:26 ◼ ► Various scandals flaring up here and there but that's honestly I think those pale in comparison to the fact that young people think they're not
01:09:33 ◼ ► But do you think overall like, you know when when Google created this alphabet umbrella?
01:09:46 ◼ ► Like alphabet doesn't own YouTube Google owns YouTube or whatever like no one like maybe you know Bloomberg might have to say alphabet Inc
01:09:58 ◼ ► No one talks about Google being an alphabet product. Everyone just says Google. I think the way Facebook has
01:10:12 ◼ ► Whereas Google seems to have created an alphabet mostly for accounting reasons or you know stock market reasons
01:10:18 ◼ ► But meta seems like they actually like Facebook actually wants that name to be its own thing and and to be known and
01:10:35 ◼ ► I think a lot of people who use whatsapp every single day did not know that Facebook owned it until that day
01:10:48 ◼ ► They very aggressively have tried to push their own push the Facebook brand name into other successful properties
01:10:54 ◼ ► They own they first started doing with Instagram and they started doing with oculus where?
01:11:04 ◼ ► It was still called Instagram and you could use it for years and never actually know that Facebook really owned it
01:11:10 ◼ ► And then a couple years ago they started they started a rebranding Facebook into Instagram to promote Facebook
01:11:16 ◼ ► You know the quote blue app, you know the Facebook app because it was losing ground among young people
01:11:20 ◼ ► so they started they renamed Instagram to Instagram by Facebook and added that to the launch screen and that all over the app and
01:11:27 ◼ ► Started integrating Facebook into Instagram much more having cross chat having account integration
01:11:35 ◼ ► I think almost all of them are cynical because I should clarify I have no respect for this company or its morals
01:11:55 ◼ ► Standards and ethics they might be the worst and that's really saying something. But anyway, so
01:12:03 ◼ ► you know, there's there were lots of reasons to do that, but but I think it kind of backfired in the sense that their goal of
01:12:17 ◼ ► Certainly trying to make you know, trying to use oculus to promote Facebook really didn't happen like that that backfired
01:12:25 ◼ ► Tremendously and made everyone hate oculus and made them lose a whole bunch of gamers and gamer cred
01:12:45 ◼ ► You don't have to log into your oculus quest with your Facebook account you log in with your meta account
01:12:50 ◼ ► you know, we like to think that people will see right through that and and that this that such a ploy wouldn't work but
01:13:07 ◼ ► Yeah, and and that kind of thing totally works people will be fooled just you know slashed by into it
01:13:18 ◼ ► Will work but what will the actual prospects be like afterwards and and this is where you know
01:13:32 ◼ ► You know that Facebook is not great at commit creating this kind of thing and that's pretty true, you know
01:13:46 ◼ ► like Instagram is kind of broadcast you are putting stuff out there for everyone to see and and
01:13:58 ◼ ► Creating social private rooms, which is kind of what the metaverse I think is probably more likely to become if it becomes a thing
01:14:25 ◼ ► Microsoft makes their version and it usually wins because it's built into everything else and they have all these integrations and they have great
01:14:31 ◼ ► Distribution and sales channels. It's because the companies are already paying Microsoft
01:14:35 ◼ ► That's why they win right companies like Microsoft gets companies into deals where they pay whatever it is
01:14:40 ◼ ► Whatever whatever the sort of like the tractor is for the day probably is still exchange
01:14:47 ◼ ► The number of big companies that aren't already paying some package deal to Microsoft is probably small
01:14:53 ◼ ► And once you're paying some kind of package deal to Microsoft the way Microsoft wins is they just say oh our
01:15:05 ◼ ► Why would we ever pay slack X number of million dollars a year when for zero additional dollars a year?
01:15:21 ◼ ► I'm in a slack with a bunch of people that I used to work with a couple jobs ago like a free slack and
01:15:26 ◼ ► And I am watching this unfold from the sidelines as we speak because all the employees really like slack
01:15:36 ◼ ► But yeah, they went to slack after I left and all the employees all the rank-and-file love it
01:15:40 ◼ ► But the bean counters are looking at teams and saying well we get teams for free. So guess what they're doing
01:15:46 ◼ ► It's exactly what you just said John and it's just hilarious because I'm on the sidelines with my meal bucket of popcorn
01:15:55 ◼ ► It's not like Microsoft doesn't have anything in VR. They got HoloLens there today our stuff like so they're you know, they're
01:16:00 ◼ ► You know Microsoft is better this the things you brought up is like consumer enterprise, you know
01:16:07 ◼ ► That's arguably one of the reasons why they need the name changes because you try to bring Facebook into an enterprise
01:16:11 ◼ ► Facebook is what your employer wants to make sure you're not doing it work because Facebook equals goofing off right Facebook does not equal working
01:16:24 ◼ ► They're like, we don't want our employees having anything to do with Facebook and they said no. No, it's for work
01:16:28 ◼ ► It's like Facebook where it's like we don't want Facebook for work. So no, it's like it's like you're in a meeting room
01:16:42 ◼ ► I don't think you can just rename the Facebook account to the meta account and not it won't do anything
01:16:53 ◼ ► Teams is a version of slack, right? People already wanted slack. Oh my god. My voice is dying
01:17:04 ◼ ► Are you sick or you just gravelly today? Yeah invest in a humidifier up there. It's getting cold. I'm extremely gravelly tonight
01:17:19 ◼ ► But you know teams who just say we're likes that thing you already want, but it's our version of it, right?
01:17:25 ◼ ► With with the metaverse someone has to make a version of the metaverse that people want then you can compete and say oh
01:17:32 ◼ ► Here's our version of the metaverse and and then Facebook is not on great footing either because they could say
01:17:39 ◼ ► Why would I buy the one from Facebook a company with no track record of serving the enterprise?
01:17:47 ◼ ► That's from that that you know privacy invading company with all these congressional hearings
01:17:57 ◼ ► Metaverse for everyone to use like between work and play and everything. I think that's never gonna happen
01:18:02 ◼ ► We already see what happens with technology and the enterprise your business gives you their
01:18:09 ◼ ► Email address with your name prefixed on it. You have their chat app. You have their collaboration app
01:18:15 ◼ ► You have their tools you get issue one of their computers and one of their phones locked under their policies
01:18:24 ◼ ► Personality thing and in a metaverse to come in to be your business metaverse icon, whatever these things are called
01:18:32 ◼ ► They don't want that even if something like this gets off the ground and that's that's a big if
01:18:40 ◼ ► You're not gonna get to use that at work. You're gonna have to use the crappy Microsoft version at work
01:18:52 ◼ ► Interoperate which that's a whole other thing because you know, so getting getting that for a moment if we can
01:19:04 ◼ ► got through about five minutes of it before before I build out seeing that's why I didn't because I have a
01:19:21 ◼ ► Animation like 3d animation videos about the information superhighway and how amazing the internet would be. Oh sure
01:19:50 ◼ ► Standards that interoperate we have some decentralization that happens and that would that we've built into the system
01:20:06 ◼ ► Open distributed standard protocols are far from the common case the much more common case is
01:20:14 ◼ ► Companies make their own walled gardens. They centralize power to themselves and then they control power
01:20:24 ◼ ► Publishing as much as possible themselves to make themselves the most money and lock in the most power for themselves. I
01:20:32 ◼ ► Don't see how we're possibly going to enter a world now, especially now that we have a very mature technology
01:20:43 ◼ ► No one is going to launch a brand new open protocol and let everyone else interact with it. It's gonna be one company
01:20:50 ◼ ► So let's get you know, Facebook's thing where they're oh, this is gonna can't just be as we're gonna be protocols
01:20:54 ◼ ► be s Facebook is gonna do their own thing that works with their own stuff and just like what everyone else does if
01:21:13 ◼ ► The core stuff that really matters so that you could actually build what you want and have actual interoperability that matters
01:21:21 ◼ ► But not take any back out because that's what every big tech company does with anything new they launch these days
01:21:31 ◼ ► Awesome cooperative standard forming where different companies metaverses will all get to form together and you'll have portability of it
01:21:39 ◼ ► No, that's that's right out the window. That's like what happens when human selfishness and greed come into the picture, right?
01:21:53 ◼ ► That's maybe that's just me being you know a yeah East coaster here, but it was all idealized content as well
01:22:12 ◼ ► Sat like saccharine like just canned everyone's a model in perfect lighting living in their fabulous house in a scenic place
01:22:20 ◼ ► You know, yeah, but you know what you would actually have in one of these metaverse conversations chat roulette. Yeah first well
01:22:31 ◼ ► Problem number one see also second life. Yes, right. You also have things like technical problems. There's Marcia
01:22:38 ◼ ► She oh she's flickering out again because her internet connection sucks. You're muted. You're muted. No one can hear you. You're muted
01:22:46 ◼ ► Like that's you know, you're gonna have technical issues people having problems operating the equipment and interfaces that they are given
01:22:53 ◼ ► differences in people's internet connections differences in how good their equipment is and so therefore, you know, some people are gonna be
01:23:00 ◼ ► You know smoother moving others. You'll be able to hear them better. I mean look look at all the technology we have today
01:23:11 ◼ ► We have infinite technology in the form of things that can make conference calls good and we still can't even do that
01:23:17 ◼ ► Because of mostly human nature problems or just technical realities of networks and equipment and physics and stuff like that
01:23:45 ◼ ► Multi-person chat where you're presenting a document has gotten way way better still crappy, which is your point, but it's gotten way better
01:23:58 ◼ ► Starting from zero right now more or less with metaverse type stuff and that we're still not done making
01:24:19 ◼ ► But we're like where audio conferencing was a decade ago. Yeah, and then finally we get to the
01:24:28 ◼ ► even if we accept the fact that not everybody's going to be a model in perfect lighting and
01:24:33 ◼ ► Even if we accept the fact that everyone's gonna have good equipment that's working correctly that they're operating correctly on a good internet connection
01:24:40 ◼ ► Which again, none of those are actually realistic expectations, but it's setting all that aside
01:24:45 ◼ ► the big problem with all these concept videos and these lofty ideas is that they don't have any ads and
01:24:53 ◼ ► Everyone is speaking nicely to everyone else about trivial things that don't matter and that does not happen in real life
01:25:02 ◼ ► What's going to happen if somebody develops such a thing in any kind of public way, you know, that's outside of like, you know corporate
01:25:23 ◼ ► All the political arguments religious arguments name-calling swearing harassment all the sexual problems
01:25:29 ◼ ► and it's all gonna be surrounded by ads constantly being injected everywhere in really weird creepy places and
01:25:36 ◼ ► Not not just good ads but really terrible ads, you know, it's not gonna be like oh look
01:25:43 ◼ ► No, it's gonna be Viagra boner pills and and all sorts of other crap that it's gonna be
01:25:48 ◼ ► You know political ads and all it just it's all the garbage that you actually get in online ads all over Facebook
01:26:13 ◼ ► It wouldn't be one of these magical concept videos where all these attractive people are talking about about getting lunch
01:26:19 ◼ ► Which actually I guess they can't even really do that. But anyway, it wouldn't even be like that
01:26:37 ◼ ► Content real world problems real world people and their technical problems and their arguments and their greed
01:26:48 ◼ ► Those problems are way harder than how to make your avatar have a new suit or whatever or dress up like a bear if you
01:26:56 ◼ ► Want to that's the easy part. The hard part is dealing with people and their crappy technology and their crappy
01:27:10 ◼ ► From here to that wonderful paradise without first having to figure out how the heck to deal with all that crap in the middle
01:27:16 ◼ ► That's mostly unsolvable. I mean, it's not unsolvable that like that's why I brought up games before like lots of online games
01:27:24 ◼ ► Have the same problem. They want to make a place where people want to be like so World of Warcraft
01:27:32 ◼ ► Put a there's no it's not a bunch of ads all over the place if they put tons of a grass into World of Warcraft
01:27:37 ◼ ► Their customer base would revolt that's not where they want to be. They want it to be like World of Warcraft
01:27:48 ◼ ► You know can you players push other players off a bridge can players destroy geometry or you know?
01:28:02 ◼ ► Safe and can build communities and hang out with their friends while not being bothered by their enemies and strangers and like, you know
01:28:08 ◼ ► From from something like World of Warcraft, which is you know, very close to a metaverse type thing
01:28:13 ◼ ► Just without the VR all the way down to a web Bolton board, you know about like, you know
01:28:18 ◼ ► Knitting where it has a good set of moderators and a good policy and who can get into but are not as essentially a well-maintained
01:28:23 ◼ ► Community right Facebook has some version of that in its groups and reddit when it's subreddits and stuff like that
01:28:29 ◼ ► But that is the actual work of creating online community and technology doesn't change that work and what you're getting at is Facebook doesn't do
01:28:36 ◼ ► It's just a free-for-all and it's terrible and there's ads everywhere because that's how they make their money
01:28:40 ◼ ► The idea of a Facebook that wouldn't put ads in your face because Facebook users or would revolt if they saw ads
01:28:50 ◼ ► And arguably Facebook has billions of users and World of Warcraft has mere probably single-digit millions or whatever
01:29:06 ◼ ► It seems weird the the more immersive it is the less attractive it is because if you're immersed in a place that is unpleasant
01:29:16 ◼ ► Maybe you try to get to a baby picture or something if you have to walk through like literally walk through the muck
01:29:26 ◼ ► It feels worse than scrolling past or clicking on a link or whatever the more immersive something gets
01:29:31 ◼ ► Like, you know World of Warcraft or Minecraft or you know, anything like that the more more it feels like you're really there
01:29:51 ◼ ► Their jobs are basically being in meetings all day or at least that's a big part of the job
01:29:55 ◼ ► I don't know any of those people first of all setting aside the ergonomics issue, which we get to in a second
01:30:09 ◼ ► Let's be honest. How many people out there have paid a hundred percent attention to the meetings that you're in ever?
01:30:15 ◼ ► Everyone is always looking at their phones or checking their email or they have a background window open or something
01:30:20 ◼ ► Like you're always multitasking with you know different apps at the same time if you are in a fully immersive
01:30:27 ◼ ► VR environment that's going to get you know impossible to difficult and certainly want to be different and and that's going to be just
01:30:38 ◼ ► the idealized version of being in a meeting is very different from the actual experience of being in a meeting and so
01:30:50 ◼ ► My company's ideal version of whatever meetings actually actually what they think meetings are but then there's the issue
01:31:09 ◼ ► So first of all, you're gonna have problems with the battery life and that's gonna be solvable over time with technology
01:31:18 ◼ ► We'll have another wave of that so we actually get it, you know, if we ever do so, that's that's problem number one
01:31:24 ◼ ► It's just like the technical side of like you need the gear that you are using for these for these very
01:31:29 ◼ ► Important roles in this theoretical world that this thing exists that gear then has to last what much longer than it does today
01:31:40 ◼ ► their meetings for many hours day and also then if you use this exact same equipment or similar equipment for
01:31:46 ◼ ► Social things after your home from work or on the weekends or something again, we're talking about multi-hour
01:31:54 ◼ ► So the technology first has to get to a point where it even will run for multiple hours
01:31:59 ◼ ► Without being like tethered to a wall or something like that and that's its own significant problem
01:32:13 ◼ ► Hopefully are you actually gonna want something like that on your face for six hours in a day?
01:32:19 ◼ ► I mean, maybe the most hardcore gamers might be okay with that, but most people won't be that's that's a pretty, you know big
01:32:29 ◼ ► And that's why I was bringing up like the things that Facebook is bad at and I don't want to bring up Apple specifically
01:32:33 ◼ ► But like if you're going to improve the technology that does this you have to overcome these hurdles
01:32:38 ◼ ► you'd have to make something that is comfortable to wear all day that have to be much smaller and much lighter and much more comfortable and
01:32:46 ◼ ► Facebook has never made an amazing consumer hardware product that that surpasses others in these type of areas of being like
01:32:52 ◼ ► Smaller lighter better more attractive more fun to use Facebook has never ever ever done that never
01:32:58 ◼ ► Like so, why would you think they're going to solve like the hardest problem currently facing technology?
01:33:02 ◼ ► Which is like how do I you know, how do we make an ARV or headset that doesn't become a sweaty uncomfortable ergonomic nightmare?
01:33:11 ◼ ► No one has released one like that you're saying the best ones out there are good for short periods
01:33:15 ◼ ► But none of them are sort of all day comfortable people can and do use desktop computers all day people can and do use laptops
01:33:27 ◼ ► It's a solved problem people have ergonomic problems with RSI from typing from using the mouse from probably using their phones
01:33:32 ◼ ► I don't you know, I don't know the ergonomic problems of iPad only people but there are problems with established devices
01:33:37 ◼ ► But VR AR there's lots of really difficult problems to solve and they are solvable and they're solvable with technological improvements
01:33:48 ◼ ► So I would name like five other companies that are more likely to figure this out before Facebook does
01:33:57 ◼ ► This isn't gonna be the kind of thing where everything is gonna be really awesome in five years
01:34:01 ◼ ► I think we're looking at a much longer timescale than that for things to be really great in this area because
01:34:09 ◼ ► space will likely get there before the AR space wheel simply because of so many challenges with AR in terms of
01:34:16 ◼ ► Of like projecting bright enough amounts of light to overcome things like sunlight, you know, that's that's a hard thing to do
01:34:41 ◼ ► But even even in the VR space you have so many challenges like this not to mention, you know
01:34:50 ◼ ► There could be serious concerns with things like your eyes and how they focus if you know
01:35:03 ◼ ► I mean, I don't know how that works with like how your eyes reflect in it. I don't know
01:35:17 ◼ ► Basically inaccessible for various reasons now this is true of any kind of technology, you know
01:35:25 ◼ ► So there's a huge money barrier even among those who could theoretically afford such things. There are barriers in the physical world
01:35:31 ◼ ► So there are people who can't physically operate laptops or two or phones or things like that
01:35:35 ◼ ► There are also many people who cannot physically operate VR helmets for various reasons
01:35:44 ◼ ► That's gonna be that's gonna probably be an issue for you with just like the the weight of this thing sitting on you
01:35:49 ◼ ► You know all day and you know, it's gonna cause probably some neck strain at least if I have their problems
01:35:54 ◼ ► Also things like skin reactivity because the the skin of people's faces are often very sensitive
01:36:00 ◼ ► So you have to deal with that you have to deal with motion sickness, which is a massive problem
01:36:05 ◼ ► John, you know probably couldn't use one of these things for a very long time. I can't even use the quest
01:36:11 ◼ ► I don't know. I don't usually have motion sickness, but the quest is not great for me in that way
01:36:27 ◼ ► Let alone considering what about the whole new classes of people and conditions that make these things hard or impossible
01:36:45 ◼ ► So there's there are so many massive hurdles to overcome here some of which I think will be
01:37:02 ◼ ► Actually the people that we have the people that we're stuck with. I don't know how we get to anything like
01:37:09 ◼ ► What Facebook has proposed here with this metaverse concept now, we might get to other things, but I think it's going to be
01:37:16 ◼ ► Kind of similar to what we have now as we were saying earlier. I think it's gonna be fragmented
01:37:37 ◼ ► Than we think it is because what we're actually doing is making the world's greatest conference call
01:37:46 ◼ ► I'm pretty confident that all the technical barriers can be overcome with time a long time, but like goodbye
01:38:10 ◼ ► Gives a presentation like the metaverse thing the cynics dilemma is and it comes up a politics lot too is
01:38:16 ◼ ► Does the person saying this really believe what they're saying or do they like everyone else who's listening understand how big how much?
01:38:28 ◼ ► And the reason is the cynics dilemma is neither one of those answers is comforting because if they really believe it
01:38:34 ◼ ► It's scary because they're like clueless or like, you know, you know high on their own supply believing their own BS
01:38:42 ◼ ► And but if they if they don't believe it and you're just saying it, you know cynically to get the end effect
01:38:58 ◼ ► Been the type of company to tackle these problems and defeat them and it's not particularly well positioned to succeed in any of the areas
01:39:09 ◼ ► We can all see that and if there are you know a setting aside what I said before about Facebook being smart enough to realize that
01:39:14 ◼ ► Facebook is not forever and they should start working on the next thing. I really hope that they don't believe that
01:39:20 ◼ ► And you know in any kind of reasonable timeline all that crap they put in that video is going to
01:39:35 ◼ ► But no one will use it like it's not going to attract users because it's not attractive yet. The hardware is bad
01:39:42 ◼ ► Surely they know that like they're not like all these stars in their eyes and I think I really hope like
01:39:58 ◼ ► they want to start down the long path of a sort of like a long-term rebranding and escaping from the toxic Facebook brand and
01:40:12 ◼ ► Mark Zuckerberg will only be there to see it if he like find some life extension thing to let him live to be 500 years
01:40:21 ◼ ► But like I can't I can't I don't believe that anyone in the company really thinks that in five years
01:40:49 ◼ ► Technically speaking they'd cracked that with the introduction of the iPhone. It wasn't just a concept video
01:41:05 ◼ ► They'd be like, well, we think it might be but you know, they're not entirely sure and they had the product
01:41:14 ◼ ► They'd figured it out. The whole phone is a screen you move stuff around with your fingers. That was it, right and
01:41:19 ◼ ► Even then I think it would be hard to find someone who was confident that Facebook has nothing except for like a gaming VR
01:41:26 ◼ ► headset and a cheaper version of it that nobody wants to be in for eight hours a day in meetings and
01:41:42 ◼ ► Like we wouldn't it be cool. This was the future. I mean, yeah, I guess and we're gonna do it. Uh-huh. All right
01:41:52 ◼ ► It just seems like a distraction like the worst kind of distraction I keep bouncing back and forth with like, okay
01:41:58 ◼ ► So it's a distraction in their villains, but maybe they really believe it in their dumb, but no it's a distraction in their villains
01:42:07 ◼ ► And you know you get Apple over here who's saying nothing but internally working on all these same technologies
01:42:16 ◼ ► It's a smart thing for companies like Apple to be doing because if you get this right it could be transformative
01:42:25 ◼ ► Apparently they haven't gotten it right yet because you know all we have all we have in the outside world from Apple is you know
01:42:30 ◼ ► AR kit and the VR stuff which they're slowly working on and they build into our iPads and phones and it's cool for placing furniture
01:42:35 ◼ ► In your room and you know all that stuff like they're making headway, but Apple is not putting out concept videos about their amazing
01:42:42 ◼ ► You know AR VR headset. It's just all internal and if they ever think it's ready to be a product
01:42:48 ◼ ► They'll release it and so far it hasn't been and so just this Facebook thing. It's like
01:43:16 ◼ ► They'll have they'll want to have their own and we just have to hope that it doesn't turn out like
01:43:22 ◼ ► You know YouTube where there's one dominant company that you know controls the entire thing or Facebook
01:43:43 ◼ ► Are you know like the web the platform that nobody owns right email the web all the things that were created before the big tech companies
01:43:54 ◼ ► We've been through this enough times now that we know all the bad ways this can turn out
01:43:59 ◼ ► And it you know it remains to be seen if we can ever have another good thing by itself like dark
01:44:06 ◼ ► Twitter's doing like the Twitter blue thing or not the Twitter blue thing was it the blue sky thing
01:44:12 ◼ ► What is it called where they're like want to make open open protocols for something like Twitter?
01:44:16 ◼ ► And like I don't understand what their endgame there is but like occasionally there are high minded ideas of like well
01:44:27 ◼ ► But we envision a world where one company doesn't control online video, and we want to sort of make an open network of
01:44:39 ◼ ► Why would why would they do that and Twitter Twitter's effort for what is it called project blue sky or something?
01:44:45 ◼ ► Seems like they're saying we want to make kind of like an open interoperable protocol for doing stuff like Twitter does
01:44:51 ◼ ► So that you know if someday Twitter dies as a company or gets acquired or crumbles or who knows what happens to it still
01:44:59 ◼ ► Somewhere out there in the universe will be a bunch of interconnected things that work kind of like Twitter
01:45:06 ◼ ► But just great, but I you know that hasn't actually happened and who knows if it ever will and I don't know how cynical that
01:45:13 ◼ ► That effort is but the metaverse stuff. You know talking about how it's gonna be emperor interoperable protocols and everything
01:45:21 ◼ ► What's gonna make that happen the only thing that ever makes stuff like that happen is like individuals
01:45:36 ◼ ► Individuals who both control and high minded ideals who are able to make it happen just because they think it's the right thing to do
01:45:44 ◼ ► Arguably, that's the worst. That's the worst thing about Facebook arguably Facebook is one of the few companies where that could actually happen
01:45:50 ◼ ► Because there is literally one person who if he had high minded ideals could bring them to fruition
01:46:00 ◼ ► So what he is making happen is not any of those things now he talks about it in the metaverse like oh
01:46:11 ◼ ► That's not what's going to happen right most of the other companies have boards of directors and other people who you know who don't have dominant
01:46:23 ◼ ► Harm in the world from Facebook comes from the fact that it is controlled by a single person and no single person should have that
01:46:30 ◼ ► Much power for you know for that long over that many people like even if Mark Zuckerberg was a saint and he's not
01:46:38 ◼ ► You would never want a single person to have that much power the reason Kings are bad right imagine a king who is
01:47:10 ◼ ► Unix most of which happened either because of high mine data deals or by accidents in history or both
01:47:15 ◼ ► Because everything that sort of been deliberately done since then has benefited individual companies or sometimes individual people
01:47:32 ◼ ► Stupefied that I'm the first person to make this reference of the three of us, but I keep coming back to the knowledge navigator
01:47:38 ◼ ► Which in retrospect is preposterous in almost every way, but I don't begrudge Apple and if you're not familiar
01:47:53 ◼ ► Critically you view this could have been an iPad or could have been something that was nothing like the iPad except kind of like
01:48:00 ◼ ► But anyways it was a preposterous thing for Apple to release it was it was a moon shot of a moon shot of a moon shot
01:48:11 ◼ ► but I do think there's something to be said for first sticking your your flag in the ground and saying
01:48:21 ◼ ► Again like I don't really love the idea of Facebook being in control of my life in that way
01:48:26 ◼ ► It any more than one could argue it already is but I don't necessarily begrudge them for
01:48:33 ◼ ► planting the flag and saying this is what we think the future looks like and this is the where we're headed and this is what
01:48:45 ◼ ► But like Declan did get his first shot this past Friday, and I'm super excited about that but
01:48:53 ◼ ► You know Michaela is not vaccinated and we're still not out in the world like many many many other people are so
01:49:14 ◼ ► Not being able to see anyone and you know back before we understood that well as long as you're not a complete buffoon
01:49:20 ◼ ► You know as long as you're outside, it's mostly safe generally speaking. So, you know for for most of 2020
01:49:38 ◼ ► We did some zoom calls with people and FaceTime calls with people but it's not the same and I haven't experienced VR
01:49:45 ◼ ► In any reasonable capacity. I haven't experienced it since I was like 10 and you had to stand on this like platform
01:49:52 ◼ ► That had like a ring around it and put on a headset. That was almost so heavy. I couldn't lift my head up
01:50:00 ◼ ► It was just you know wireframes if I remember right it was terrible, but amazing at the same time. Yeah, I don't begrudge
01:50:06 ◼ ► meta Facebook whatever the moonshot and I think in the same way that I look fondly on the knowledge navigator
01:50:17 ◼ ► Wouldn't be surprised having not even seen this video if we look fondly at oh look how adorable we were look what we thought where?
01:50:23 ◼ ► We thought we were going and yeah, we ended up taking two right turns three left turns and turning around three times
01:50:29 ◼ ► But you can see how that path started way back in 2021 with that ridiculously campy video and and
01:51:00 ◼ ► I could see them making a product like this because this looks like the kind of product that we know Apple makes Apple makes these
01:51:08 ◼ ► Amazing products that are like the knowledge navigator, but with like older tech, right? That's exactly what Apple makes
01:51:17 ◼ ► So when they make a video even if it's something like knowledge navigator that has no bearing on any
01:51:22 ◼ ► Active product efforts whatsoever. It's worse than metaverse because metaverse like that Facebook is working on stuff related to this
01:51:29 ◼ ► It's not that far away. It is technically plausible knowledge navigator was not technically plausible by any stretch of the imagination
01:51:36 ◼ ► There was no product inside Apple that it looked anything like that. Even the Newton wasn't as did not spring from knowledge navigator
01:51:50 ◼ ► It was the far future and Apple still existed. This is what Apple would making would be making
01:51:55 ◼ ► If we look at Facebook today, and we said okay if I could fast forward Facebook 100 years 200 years
01:52:10 ◼ ► Ow, my balls with all the ads all around the thing. That's what we would envision Facebook making in a hundred years
01:52:17 ◼ ► We would never envision them making the metaverse because that's not the type of thing that Facebook makes we think about Facebook
01:52:26 ◼ ► What is the blue app look like in a hundred years in 50 years or whatever and nobody says?
01:52:35 ◼ ► Stop extrapolating from where everything you know a Facebook and saying what that would be like we're gonna change
01:52:40 ◼ ► We're gonna be a different company where we're gonna make this other thing and I look and I say no you're not
01:52:44 ◼ ► Maybe someone else will or maybe you copy them when they do or maybe you'll buy them when they do
01:52:54 ◼ ► I remember watching that and saying that totally looks like some cool product Apple would have in the future
01:52:59 ◼ ► it's kind of hilarious to look at though because if you think of the things that didn't didn't come to fruition like
01:53:04 ◼ ► The massive size of the camera parts like if they had made the knowledge navigator video where the cameras were invisible pinholes
01:53:10 ◼ ► We'd be like that's so stupid. They didn't even try like that's impossible right look here
01:53:17 ◼ ► But amazing screens with better resolutions and smaller borders and that stupid knowledge navigator
01:53:21 ◼ ► Including like flexible bendable things without without a crease where the hinges and everything that stuff. We've got all that already
01:53:29 ◼ ► I don't know how long ago knowledge navigator was because I can't do decade math because I always end up dropping a decade or two
01:53:39 ◼ ► Pinstripes and all this other stuff our actual technology is so much better than they envisioned right on the other hand
01:53:50 ◼ ► Well, we can't do that worth a damn Marco can't even get a cylinders to play music. So, you know
01:54:03 ◼ ► They can't allow for the things that are really going to progress like the idea that cameras and microphones
01:54:08 ◼ ► Would get so much smaller and so much higher quality to basically disappear if you tried to do that in sci-fi
01:54:15 ◼ ► You know 50 years ago people would reject it and say well that's impossible. You're just making up fantasy, right?
01:54:21 ◼ ► Whereas if you take something and just make it incrementally better like oh a personal assistant that can do what you ask like well today
01:54:28 ◼ ► We have computers that we can talk to and they can understand our speech and so probably in 20 years
01:54:38 ◼ ► Picking the things that will advance rapidly and the things that won't because they don't understand how hard the how
01:54:46 ◼ ► What do sensors and camera technologies and integrated circuits look like and if we extrapolate those technologies in a boring linear way?
01:55:02 ◼ ► How well this little remote control car can make it through a maze in a lab to a real full-size car on our current roads
01:55:12 ◼ ► And so if you look at the knowledge navigator think about the parts of it that they got hilariously wrong
01:55:30 ◼ ► And in particular screens cameras microphones batteries and the size of the devices all of that
01:55:35 ◼ ► They got hilariously wrong because the iPad stomps all over the knowledge navigator in every way
01:55:48 ◼ ► Linode Mac Weldon and Squarespace and thanks to our members who support us directly you can join and preserve
01:55:55 ◼ ► Podcasting which is one of these awesome things that we still have at ATP FM slash join. Thanks everybody
01:56:53 ◼ ► May I tell you a quick story about how I'm an idiot I would love to hear this my favorite kind of story
01:57:48 ◼ ► There is some sort of physical key like you would have had, you know, ten years ago or you know given
01:57:56 ◼ ► There's a physical key that you could put in some sort of keyhole to actually unlock the automobile
01:58:08 ◼ ► But I realized I can't lock my car then because the valley key will not unlock the car from the outside
01:58:21 ◼ ► Well, they can't but you can't lock the car with the valley key doesn't have it's no there's no remote on it
01:58:33 ◼ ► Like you can't if you physically try to do that and you close the door like it's it's got weird locks
01:58:42 ◼ ► I don't think it's possible for you to do because I think if you get out of the car and
01:58:49 ◼ ► But anyway, if you're outside the car with the valley key, there's nothing you can do to make the doors on the car lock
01:58:54 ◼ ► So all kidding aside as much as I'm sparking on you. Is it a proximity key or is it a traditional?
01:58:59 ◼ ► No, it's a piece of metal. Okay, so but there's like is there not a keyhole you could stick the valley key into
01:59:12 ◼ ► Having what you're describing having a physical keyhole that you can put a key into and turn and make things lock
01:59:20 ◼ ► There is an electronic component to that because you got the thing where if you lock the driver's door all the doors lock
01:59:29 ◼ ► What you would have to do is manually lock all the other three doors or whatever doors and then
01:59:34 ◼ ► Manually lock the driver's door you could do that with a dead battery and it would still work. Yeah. Yeah
01:59:49 ◼ ► I think it's called like Volvo on call or something like that where she could unlock the car remotely
01:59:56 ◼ ► But I guess once she got in the car there was enough juice to transmit to get the proximity ignition
02:00:11 ◼ ► as I told her when she got home well of the three cupholders in the center of the car because hashtag America even though it's a
02:00:19 ◼ ► If you put the key in the middle cupholder, even if the battery is just dead dead dead dead dead, then it will still
02:00:33 ◼ ► It's probably about time we changed the battery and it's one of those typical coin cell
02:00:36 ◼ ► you know little pancake II batteries and and I open up her key fob and I pull out the battery in her in her key fob and
02:00:43 ◼ ► I replace it with one that's brand new and I did this in the kitchen. The garage is right off the kitchen
02:00:50 ◼ ► I left the people door to the garage open and you know, I tried to boop boop on the key fob
02:00:55 ◼ ► You know just the traditional boop boop function to unlock or lock the car or whatever, you know
02:01:10 ◼ ► But I might have tried a second battery if I'm not mistaken second brand new battery and that didn't work
02:01:22 ◼ ► We don't think it's something power or key fob related and I think okay. Well this battery definitely works
02:01:39 ◼ ► Which I didn't expect but we're gonna put that aside for a second in one way or another
02:01:52 ◼ ► So then I put the battery back in my key fob the one that was working three minutes ago
02:02:00 ◼ ► So I've now murdered two key fobs in the span of about five minutes. Neither of them work
02:02:06 ◼ ► I verified that there's no plastic on the batteries. The batteries are dated for like 2027 or something like that. I
02:02:15 ◼ ► We conclude this was not this past Sunday night with Sunday prior. So we conclude. All right
02:02:23 ◼ ► Transporting Declan to school because we don't we're not really comfortable with him being on the bus
02:02:26 ◼ ► So I'm gonna take Declan to school in the morning and I'm gonna drive to Volvo with my tail between my legs and explain what happened
02:02:34 ◼ ► Went to Volvo. I didn't lock her car because I didn't want to have to unlock it using the app or anything
02:02:47 ◼ ► So what either of you guys like to make a guess or would you rather me just continue and just tell the rest of story?
02:02:53 ◼ ► But what what do you think happened if using positive and negative on the batteries fair question, but no I was not
02:02:59 ◼ ► The fact that a bit of plastic broke off. Is it the wrong kind of battery? Is it too big?
02:03:04 ◼ ► No that I like to think I'm smarter than that, but probably not so it's a fair question
02:03:12 ◼ ► They like the cr2 203 twos and all like there's a whole bunch of very similar looking batteries that are different physical sizes. Mm-hmm
02:03:20 ◼ ► No, that was not it. So I tell my tale of woe to the very very kind person at Volvo of Richmond and
02:03:41 ◼ ► Each so we're I don't know and I said to Aaron the night before I said we're probably in for a thousand bucks
02:03:46 ◼ ► You gotta know what I did, but I bet we're in for a thousand bucks. And so it would have been somewhere between
02:03:54 ◼ ► This has happened before in fact, it is not unusual for somebody from batteries plus or you know
02:04:01 ◼ ► battery only retail stores to come in here and say I need a new key because I've broken my customers key and so then battery plus
02:04:12 ◼ ► When I was ejecting the coin cell battery now mind you I have changed the battery in both of these key fobs before I'm almost sure
02:04:19 ◼ ► Of it because we got the car in mid 2017 and it's now four years later. So God is it really four years old?
02:04:29 ◼ ► Even though in my personal opinion the Volvo XC 90 is a very well-designed car and and I really really love it
02:04:48 ◼ ► Literally one to two millimeters wide like I cannot I cannot I guess understate how small they are
02:04:55 ◼ ► I mean, I can't overstate how small they are and apparently in the process of changing the battery I
02:05:00 ◼ ► Broke both of the clips, you know, so there are broke clips on both of the keys. I should say
02:05:08 ◼ ► No, I didn't I just they wouldn't come out so I levered them out use more force. Yep. Call me Clarkson
02:05:26 ◼ ► Goes in a drawer comes back with those little circle stickers. You would use to like put a price at like a tag sale
02:05:34 ◼ ► Puts them on the underside of the battery door and then sticks the door back on the key works
02:05:43 ◼ ► I was out the door and maybe five ten minutes and spent zero dollars and I am forever indebted to the service department at Volvo
02:05:50 ◼ ► Very five star service. I very appreciate very much appreciated them, but for the span of about I don't know 12 hours
02:05:57 ◼ ► I really thought I was out a thousand dollars because I apparently am too strong for my own good and
02:06:01 ◼ ► Manhandled those batteries a little too effectively not instill confidence in the design of the rest of this car that the inside of the of the
02:06:10 ◼ ► but agree, I don't I also don't know I would love to see but this thing looks like because I
02:06:15 ◼ ► Can't decide whether it's it's made like delicate glass on the inside or you're just a brute who just like
02:06:32 ◼ ► Into the show notes and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be able to find a timestamp right now to show you the clips
02:06:56 ◼ ► That these clips are making appearance in the YouTube video. I put in the show notes and in the chat room
02:07:02 ◼ ► I thought it was an idiot and the funny thing is I agree with you that this seems like a really crummy design
02:07:16 ◼ ► I need to actually like physically remove a portion of the trim on the door handle in order to expose the keyhole that I would
02:07:32 ◼ ► The the keyhole is right there in the space that you know in the in the space that's been exposed by pulling the door handle out
02:07:42 ◼ ► But my point is you don't like remove part of the friggin car in order to get to the keyhole
02:07:49 ◼ ► You do have to disassemble the entire key to get the key out, but that's neither here nor there
02:08:03 ◼ ► Yeah, I just like that in it the thing that's bad about the design isn't the fact that the little grabby things are delicate
02:08:21 ◼ ► I could do most of the things to take a battery you put the battery in you put the little yeah
02:08:26 ◼ ► But anyway, the person in this video did not take it out particularly carefully and also did it without breaking it