455: Your Yanking Force


00:00:00   When did we start this? We started this in like March of 2013, is that right?

00:00:07   So it's been like eight years that we've been doing this and we're still doing all this bullsh*t trying to get it to work.

00:00:12   Usually it's only one of you that radically changes your setup and has things, but now Marco wanted to get in on the action today too.

00:00:19   You know, it's not always me. I rarely mess with my setup. Marco's one that changes computers like underwear.

00:00:24   Yep, that's me.

00:00:25   How many computers have you bought in the last three weeks?

00:00:29   Kept?

00:00:30   Bought. I didn't say kept, I said bought.

00:00:34   Well, for my household or for me personally?

00:00:36   For your household.

00:00:37   He fosters computers a lot.

00:00:42   And then basically like when he has a foster fail, that's how he gets his computers.

00:00:50   Marco is about 15 dogs and 35 computers, all foster fails.

00:00:56   Oh golly. All right. My office is a mess.

00:00:59   Of the 32 minutes and seven seconds we've been recording, do you think we have six minutes of content at this point?

00:01:05   This is all for the bootleg. They need to get their money's worth. Oh my God. All right.

00:01:09   Holy smokes.

00:01:12   I've been doing computer setup stuff for the better part of the last week.

00:01:17   For the most part, I am still in like happy mode.

00:01:21   For the most part, I'm still loving computers and new computer setup.

00:01:27   I'll get to this in a little bit of like why this has taken me an entire week.

00:01:30   Short version is I did two clean installs instead of doing any migration.

00:01:35   So it just takes so much time for me to set things up.

00:01:37   But I was happy until today because I had this list of things I had to do for set up my Backblaze and Dropbox and Time Machine.

00:01:49   Well, just this list of stuff I wanted to set up on the new computers.

00:01:52   And I had saved until today the two things I really didn't want to do.

00:01:58   That would be Adobe setup and transferring the cellular plan from my old Apple Watch to my new Apple Watch.

00:02:07   Well, that usually isn't bad in my experience.

00:02:10   I have never had that succeed without having to invoke AT&T's chat people.

00:02:15   Huh. I feel like I've done it once or twice.

00:02:17   It's supposed to be able to do it, but it never does.

00:02:20   So all this time I've been thinking, "Oh, God, I've got to do this."

00:02:24   And I had forgotten about the Adobe thing.

00:02:27   I had forgotten because my computer felt great.

00:02:29   I had it all set up the way I liked.

00:02:32   I'm really very happy. Everything's lightweight.

00:02:35   I'm using my phone instead of Dropbox so I don't have that crap all over the place.

00:02:38   And like keeping everything nice and tight and clean and using new modern things.

00:02:42   And then I went to record the ads for this podcast, which I do right before we record the podcast.

00:02:47   And uh-oh, I don't have Adobe Audition installed because of what I recorded.

00:02:51   And I know there are other programs that are what we used to call a wave editor, like back in the very, very old days.

00:02:59   Whatever now we call Adobe Audition, it's a wave editor but with a bunch more features.

00:03:04   But it's the best damn wave editor I've ever seen.

00:03:07   And it's like the modern version of what used to be called Cool Edit Pro,

00:03:11   which I think they actually bought and turned into Audition long, long, long ago.

00:03:15   I could be wrong about that but I just love a good wave editor and I've never found a better one than Audition.

00:03:20   And so I tolerate Adobe's massive amount of crap.

00:03:25   Only for two apps, only for Photoshop and Audition.

00:03:28   I don't use any of their other apps anymore really.

00:03:30   And my god, I must really love Audition to put up with this crap.

00:03:35   Because Photoshop seems to have a lot of really good alternatives.

00:03:38   There's Acorn, there's Pixelmator, there's the Affinity suite of stuff.

00:03:43   There's all sorts of nice alternatives to Photoshop.

00:03:46   I don't know of any great alternatives to Adobe Audition.

00:03:50   And for what I do with tons of various, it's basically my sound utility knife.

00:03:57   I can do tons of different things with sound with Audition.

00:04:00   And it's not my only one. I have many sound tools but this sounds as much of my business and pleasure.

00:04:07   So I kind of need it.

00:04:09   But oh man, installing Adobe, that is a fast way to bring my computer high down crashing back to earth.

00:04:18   Oh my god.

00:04:22   First you got to install Creative Cloud and there's no, there should be no way around installing Creative Cloud.

00:04:27   Like, anybody knows of an option for that for Audition, please let me know.

00:04:30   But I don't think there is one.

00:04:32   Anyway, I did briefly consider pirating my copy of Audition.

00:04:36   That I pay for anyway just so I wouldn't have to have Creative Cloud installed on my computer.

00:04:42   But I don't even know what that world is like anymore.

00:04:44   So it's been a while since I've been at it.

00:04:47   But anyway, other than Adobe's crap being spewed all over my computer in the worst possible way,

00:04:52   other than that I've had a wonderful week setting up my computers.

00:04:56   I haven't gotten any work done because I've been setting up my computers.

00:05:00   I'm so happy to be at the stage I'm at now, which is everything is mostly done and working.

00:05:06   But yeah, it's been a road getting here.

00:05:09   You know, to that end, I've decided to completely change up my audio setup for today.

00:05:14   And I'm doing that because I wanted to trial using my fancy new MacBook Pro, which has finally arrived.

00:05:20   And I am very excited about it. We will be talking about it quite a bit later.

00:05:24   But I am now recording on the MacBook Pro.

00:05:27   It's actually a truly stupid procedure that I'm doing right now because I have this beautiful 27-inch screen

00:05:35   right behind the 14-inch screen that I'm actively using.

00:05:38   And I'm just that 27-inch screen with all that beautiful real estate is just sitting there dark.

00:05:43   But nevertheless, I am recording on the MacBook Pro.

00:05:46   So if anything sounds funky, don't blame Marco. Blame me.

00:05:49   But in the process of getting all this squared away, of course I had to do all my installs.

00:05:53   And I'd like to get a reminder out in front of all of the people, including you Marco, although it's too late.

00:05:59   Homebrew Bundle. If you believe in homebrew, which I do, then bundle is sort of kind of like a gem file, I guess, for homebrew packages.

00:06:09   And so I've written about it. We've talked about this on the show before.

00:06:12   I've written about it and I'll put a link in the show notes to my blog post.

00:06:15   But you can put in a list of all the packages you want.

00:06:18   Like, I don't know, if you're a KC, then maybe FFmpeg would be high on the list.

00:06:21   And you can put that in your bundle file and then you say to homebrew bundle, once homebrew is installed, "Go install all the things."

00:06:28   And there was a couple of minor issues with it this time.

00:06:33   Specifically, the mechanism by which you can install stuff from the App Store is kind of broken at the moment.

00:06:38   Although I think they just merged the fix for it.

00:06:41   But nevertheless, I was able to get it squared away. And it is really nice.

00:06:44   The one thing I will say, though, is I was sold a bill of goods with this MacBook Pro. I'm kind of spoiling a little bit later, just a smidge.

00:06:52   I was sold a bill of goods with this MacBook Pro that everything happens instantly.

00:06:56   And a lot of stuff does. A lot of stuff really, really does.

00:07:00   But you know what doesn't? Xcode install.

00:07:03   And I did it from the Mac App Store, which maybe that was a poor choice.

00:07:06   Oh, well there's your problem. Never do that.

00:07:09   One way or the other. The install took for freaking ever.

00:07:13   And of course, like a noob, the way I did my bundle file, which you can find off the link on my blog,

00:07:19   is I did all of the Mac App Store stuff first, and then all the straight up brew stuff later.

00:07:24   And I did it alphabetically, because I don't know, I'm type A.

00:07:29   And so one of the last things in the Mac App Store section was Xcode.

00:07:32   But then that caused everything to effectively come to a screeching halt, because I couldn't install anything else.

00:07:38   Well, I mean, I could. But you know what I mean?

00:07:40   If I'm running through this file, it's held up on Xcode before it gets to any of the other stuff I want it to install.

00:07:47   So one of the things I've learned from this process is put Xcode at the bottom.

00:07:51   So it's the very last thing you install. Not one of the first.

00:07:54   But homebrew bundle. I know, Marco, it's too late for you.

00:07:57   And I know this isn't really your style, because I know you don't like automating anything with these sorts of things.

00:08:01   But it's a very neat tool, and we will put links in the show notes.

00:08:06   It isn't that I'm against automating this kind of stuff. It's just that the setup that I have,

00:08:11   or the technical needs of whatever I'm installing, or the packages themselves, tend to change more often than I set up new machines.

00:08:19   And so the result is when I am ready to use it again, either the script has broken, or the packages it refers to have changed or broken,

00:08:28   and/or the things I want to install are different.

00:08:32   And so if I was setting up, like, suppose I was ridiculous enough to buy a new Mac every year.

00:08:39   [

00:08:46   And suppose that I was setting them up as clean installs every time.

00:08:47   Then I would be way more likely to do this kind of setup.

00:08:50   But what I do now, like, I set up a clean install maybe every three to five years.

00:08:57   So that's where you and I differ. So it makes even more sense that you would not be keen on this idea.

00:09:02   But for me, I find that, for my preferences, I just like doing it fresh every time.

00:09:07   I just like cleaning out all the cruft. And I know that's more of like a holdover from Windows time.

00:09:12   But I just prefer to clean everything out and just do it fresh.

00:09:15   Jon, when you did your Mac Pro, did you migrate? You did, didn't you?

00:09:19   I always use Migration Assistant. I was just watching one of our Slack people were just talking about Brew and all that other stuff.

00:09:26   How do you people live with these package managers?

00:09:28   Like Margot was saying, I update so infrequently that when I update, it's basically an opportunity for me to either update or change which things I have.

00:09:40   So that's the time for me to upgrade my installation of Postgres and upgrade my installation of MySQL if it even still exists or if it's MariaDB now or whatever.

00:09:48   That's the time for me to do all that. New version of Perl now in all my CPAN modules.

00:09:53   I don't mess with those for years, but when a new computer comes, that's the time for me to revisit all of it.

00:09:58   So I don't want an automated process that just gives me what I had before.

00:10:01   I want every X number of years to reconsider everything that I have.

00:10:06   And Migration Assistant brings a lot of it over. And because of the wonders of binary compatibility and/or Rosetta, my existing installs tend to just work, but those are just copied as files because everything is in user-local.

00:10:16   And Migration Assistant tends to copy over user-local, or if it doesn't, I can manually do it because it's just one directory tree. And that's all my stuff.

00:10:23   But I do take that opportunity to say, "Okay, well, my stuff came over and it seems like it works, but do I want to start upgrading or uninstalling or putting something different in or whatever?"

00:10:33   So that's what I do when I get a new machine.

00:10:36   All right, let's talk about the most important thing in the world. It is not new MacBook Pros, as exciting as they are.

00:10:43   It is instead the ATP Store, which is back, baby, just like we said last time. The Store is back.

00:10:50   This is the middle of three episodes where we plan to talk about this. So you are running out of time. You are running out of time.

00:10:56   So the ATP Store is back, in case you missed last week. We've got all new stuff. We've got ATP The Flamethrower. No, not really.

00:11:04   We've got ATP M1 Pro shirts and Max shirts. We have them in various flavors of black fabric with a rainbow front and printed on the back.

00:11:16   Then we also have the monochrome version, where the colors of the shirt are of various different colors, but the ink is always white.

00:11:24   And again, there is something on the back there.

00:11:26   And then we also have the ATP Winter Hat. Note, this is not a chicken hat. Perhaps we should call it a turkey hat. I don't know.

00:11:32   Is it like the chicken hat, but just really big and less flavorful?

00:11:35   Yeah, exactly right. And then we have the ATP Hoodie.

00:11:37   Turkey is not less flavorful than chicken. That's madness.

00:11:41   Actually, that is probably true. You're probably right.

00:11:43   Sorry, drier.

00:11:44   Well, that depends on who's cooking it.

00:11:46   Oh, there it is. We've got the ATP Hoodie and then we've got the classic ATP logo shirt. All of these things are available at ATP.fm/store.

00:11:55   If you are listening to this right now, if you're driving, maybe signal and then pull over. If you're walking, maybe just ease your way to the side.

00:12:05   If you're biking, do what you need to do, whatever bicyclists do, to get into a less dangerous situation.

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00:12:21   Buy a shirt. Buy a shirt for you. Buy a shirt for your friend. Everyone will be happy. ATP.fm/store.

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00:12:35   So, if you want, you could become a member at ATP.fm/join.

00:12:40   You could buy your merchandise. You could cancel right after.

00:12:44   But instead, you could hold on and listen to the amazing bootleg that we put out every week,

00:12:48   including this one, which I can assure you was a disaster.

00:12:51   This is a good one. If you're going to listen to a bootleg, this week is a good time to start.

00:12:56   This is a good time to start. So, ATP.fm/join to become a member.

00:13:00   And don't listen to John. Just stick with it. You'll love it.

00:13:03   And one way or another, ATP.fm/store to order some new, sweet merchandise.

00:13:09   Thank you to all of you for sponsoring this show.

00:13:12   [laughter]

00:13:13   All right. Let's do some follow-up.

00:13:15   We have an Ask ATP that I think I might have promoted an Ask ATP from Cesar Cavazos.

00:13:22   I'm going to go with that.

00:13:23   And Cesar asks, "Can you do a follow-up on Marco's dock setup?

00:13:27   Which one will you be using with the 2021 MacBook Pro?

00:13:30   If I recall correctly, both CalDigit and OWC were the culprits of network issues.

00:13:34   Or, excuse me, weren't the culprits of network issues.

00:13:36   But I'm also wondering if the charging power, 87 watts and 90 watts, will be an issue.

00:13:40   I would also like to know this because I really think this MacBook Pro that I'm talking to you on right now

00:13:45   is going to be my only, well, real computer soon.

00:13:48   So, I would like a dock and a friggin' monitor Apple, but we'll leave that for another time.

00:13:53   I would like a dock. So, Marco, what's your dock situation?

00:13:56   So, interestingly, so I still do own both docks.

00:14:00   I keep the OWC Thunderbolt dock back in Westchester.

00:14:07   So whenever I go back there, I plug into that.

00:14:10   That's connected to my LG Fine display.

00:14:14   And I have a Fine setup there whenever I need to record there.

00:14:18   But my primary setup with the XDR here at the beach is using actually none of those hubs.

00:14:27   Oh.

00:14:28   I have the CalDigit here, but I use it more for like, you know, if I have to like set up for a project doing something.

00:14:34   Like, I'm currently playing with some gaming hardware type stuff that I might do like capture of all three of us in the family playing a game.

00:14:44   And to do that, I would actually use CalDigit dock and capture onto my laptop,

00:14:49   which is actually one of the reasons why I upgraded the laptop, even though I didn't necessarily need to for other reasons.

00:14:56   Anyway, so the CalDigit just kind of floating around my house is like a utility as needed thing right now.

00:15:01   What I am using though is still just two cables put into my MacBook Pro.

00:15:06   The Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter that is currently the chain.

00:15:12   Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 2 to Ethernet, which is how we are talking to each other right now.

00:15:17   Listen to the bootleg if you want to hear the story of how that happened.

00:15:20   And the other cable is going to my Pro Display XDR.

00:15:25   And the XDR has on its butt three or four extra USB-C ports.

00:15:31   And they are not Thunderbolt, they are USB because there isn't enough bandwidth left over after the display segment to also offer Thunderbolt ports in the back.

00:15:37   But it turns out that the only really high bandwidth thing I have is the Pro Display XDR.

00:15:43   And everything else I plug into USB ports is mostly low bandwidth stuff.

00:15:46   It's mostly keyboard receiver, sound devices, input and output, a couple of external hard drives or external SSDs, USB devices.

00:15:56   Charging cables for a watch and my iPhone developer tether cable.

00:16:01   So there is mostly not a lot of high end needs I have here.

00:16:05   I really just need a bunch of USB ports.

00:16:08   Also under my desk I have a USB-A hub, so that provides a lot of the less modern connections to a lot of that stuff too.

00:16:17   In the back of the Pro Display XDR I connect my audio interface, that USB hub, something else I think one of the charging cables.

00:16:25   And that covers my needs just fine. It really is, that's really all I need.

00:16:30   So for now I'm not using any of these hubs and I don't think I will need to add one to my desk in the near future.

00:16:37   I'm blown away that you're using your USB audio interface via the XDR.

00:16:43   There's no reason why that should be a problem, but superstition just tells me that seems like a terrible decision.

00:16:50   Well, and I've been using it that way since I got the Mac Mini, so about a year.

00:16:54   The thing is, I used to have that same superstition because it wasn't a superstition.

00:16:58   When the USB-C generation of laptops first came out in 2015 and 2016, the USB hubs and dongles and stuff on the marketplace were very unreliable.

00:17:08   Including the ones that were on the back of the LG fine. Those ports are notoriously unreliable.

00:17:14   Hubs and dongles were unreliable.

00:17:17   And so for the early generation of USB-C stuff, it wasn't wise to plug in something like an audio recording device into anything besides a port that was on the computer.

00:17:28   And that's one of the reasons why I always wanted more ports on the computer because the things I needed to be 100% reliable had to go into those ports.

00:17:37   They couldn't go into a hub for me to actually depend on them.

00:17:40   Well, the XDR's ports have been 100% reliable for me. I haven't had any problems with them at all.

00:17:45   So it's great in the sense that I guess after spending $15 million on this display and another $5 million on its stand, that I get four extra USB-C ports.

00:17:55   Do you remember the actual names of the two, the OWC and the CalDigit hub? Is the CalDigit the TS3+? Does that sound right?

00:18:04   Yes. They've been making it for a while. It's great. It's like this solid block of aluminum.

00:18:08   Anecdotally, or opinion-wise, between the CalDigit and the OWC, the Thunderbolt 3 dock I think it's called, I prefer the CalDigit.

00:18:17   They have similar capabilities. The CalDigit is a little bit smaller and stockier in its shape.

00:18:26   And even though they both seem to be built with high quality, the CalDigit is basically a giant block of metal.

00:18:32   The outside has fins so it cools off without needing a big fan anywhere. It's a really nicely built thing.

00:18:39   I'm a big fan of CalDigit from this purchase alone. I've never had any of the previous stuff, but this device has made me a fan.

00:18:46   It just feels so damn solid. They actually have something called the Element Hub that I desperately want, but it's out of stock everywhere right now.

00:18:57   Because what's interesting is that now that the MacBook Pros are providing HDMI and SD, I no longer really want those things in a hub.

00:19:08   Every little feature that a hub provides, every little hardware thing that it has built in, is kind of a liability if I don't need or want it.

00:19:17   Because for instance, all these hubs have their own audio devices built in. They have a headphone jack, maybe a microphone, like a headset kind of microphone jack input.

00:19:26   But it has all these additional things. And to me, all of those things are liabilities for some kind of peripheral that will be permanently connected to my computer that I can't separate from the rest of the hub.

00:19:40   That might at some point get flaky or have some kind of weird driver issue with the OS or something like that.

00:19:46   I want my hubs to be mostly dumb. I want the variety of ports and stuff to be in the computer. The computer should have things like the SD slot and the HDMI port and hardware Ethernet if it's a desktop and stuff like that.

00:20:01   That should all be in the computer and the hub should only be necessary ideally to provide just more ports. More USB ports ideally and Thunderbolt ports.

00:20:10   So what I'm looking forward to is I'm hoping to get the CalDigit Element hub at some point soon once it comes back in stock.

00:20:17   Because all it is is Thunderbolt in and I think it's three Thunderbolt out and a whole bunch of USB A out.

00:20:25   And that's it. There's no networking, there's no sound, there's no HDMI. It's just a USB and Thunderbolt port multiplier.

00:20:34   And that's awesome. That's exactly what I want. So hopefully I can get one of those sometime soon.

00:20:40   And I hope that now as these new, a little bit more generous port filled laptops start going into the market and over time start taking over the market as they filter in and people start replacing the old USB C only ones after a few years from now.

00:20:59   I'm hoping that the world of these big multi-port hubs kind of gets reduced and we are just seeing much more multiple USB port multipliers or multiple Thunderbolt port multipliers. Hopefully we'll get there.

00:21:14   I wish the Element hub worked without a power supply though because it is so slim and small and just has those ports on it but it does require DC power so you've got a power brick and you've got a cord.

00:21:24   Yeah, I know. That is unfortunate. But as far as I know, and the other side of part two is that on the market, I think how digit makes one, I think OWC and maybe a couple others, maybe Belkin.

00:21:35   There are other ones on the market that are bus powered Thunderbolt hubs but they only tend to have two USB ports and then like two HDMI or two DisplayPort ports.

00:21:48   And a couple different brands make this so I'm guessing it's some kind of like just standard Intel chip they have in there to do this.

00:21:54   But that to me, that's fine but I don't really need two additional HDMI ports. I really just need more USB ports.

00:22:02   But I also recognize the power demands of modern USB devices. They expect a certain amount of power from the bus and while Thunderbolt can deliver a lot of power over that port, I'm sure there's, I don't know if the limit is off the top of my head for Thunderbolt devices.

00:22:17   Maybe it's like 30 watts or something like that but I bet they would hit that limit pretty fast once they're adding ports.

00:22:23   Yeah, it's from their fact. They say Thunderbolt ports each require 15 watts of power and USB ports each provide up to 7.5 watts of power so if you add it all up, you need a power supply. You can't get that from the bus. It makes sense but you know.

00:22:35   Yeah.

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00:24:45   [Music]

00:24:49   All right, Jon. Tell me about your AirPods 3.

00:24:51   A quick update on my AirPods 3 I talked about last week. Now I've had a week to spend with them. I've used them as my main and only AirPods, which means I use them a lot.

00:24:59   Used them while listening to podcasts, watching TV shows and movies on my iPad. Did all the things.

00:25:04   Update on the comfort. I think they're fine. My ears don't hurt. They're not fatigued. I was worried about that. They do still feel different. They feel larger in the ear.

00:25:14   They press up against parts they didn't. After a week, I feel confident in saying if these were going to bother my ears in some way, they would have already and they don't.

00:25:22   That's just me. You have to try them yourself to see how it works for you. I'm personally glad that they don't bother me.

00:25:28   The case size, I did say they come in a charging case that's bigger, which kind of annoys me. It's worth noting that it is smaller than the AirPods Pro case.

00:25:38   It looks just like the AirPods Pro case. It opens on the long side and everything like that, but it is smaller than that.

00:25:44   It is slightly larger than the regular AirPods case, but still significantly smaller than the big AirPods Pro case.

00:25:49   Don't be too afraid of the case. It's kind of like going from the iPhone 7 to the iPhone X. Is that the time when we got it bigger? 7 to 10, right?

00:25:59   It's a little bit bigger, but you get used to it. And then finally, spatial audio. These are my first headphones, besides messing with my wife's AirPods Pro, that I've used that support spatial audio.

00:26:11   And I don't like it. Every time I try to do stuff on my iPad, I'm like, "Why the hell is the audio all messed up?" "Oh, okay, spatial audio."

00:26:19   "Do you want head track spatial audio? Do you want non-head tracks?" It's like, "No, I don't want any spatial audio."

00:26:24   I'm mostly watching TV shows and movies, but whatever they're doing, some of them say, "Don't be at most available." No, it sounds worse to me.

00:26:35   Maybe with music. I tried it with music a little bit too, including downloading ones that are, you know, whatever the keyword is for the music that says "redownload" to get the fancy spatial multitrack thing.

00:26:47   For whatever reason, it's not what I want. I definitely don't want it on a TV show. It just makes it sound like... I don't want the thing where, "Hey, the sound sounds like it's coming from the iPad."

00:26:57   I don't want that. I want the opposite of that. That's the point of wearing headphones, is that the sound doesn't sound like it's coming from the iPad. It sounds like it's right in my ears, and that's much better.

00:27:06   But then also, you know, the music, the multitrack music, I just want it to be mixed for headphones. I don't want it to sound like everything I'm listening to isn't like...

00:27:18   It's like the stereo equipment from my youth when they first started having a concert hall mode where everything sounds like it's in a cathedral.

00:27:25   It's not that bad. Anyway, it's not to my personal taste, but for people who don't know, if they just buy these and start using their iPad and everything sounds weird, remember that you can...

00:27:33   What is it? Upper right corner swipe down to get the control center and then hold down on the volume bar. This is not particularly discoverable. I don't even know what the "real" way to do it is.

00:27:43   Anyway, upper right corner swipe down on iOS or iPadOS. Hold your finger down on the volume slider and it will pop up a full screen thing that will have a giant volume slider, and then at the bottom of the giant volume slider you'll see probably three buttons for like...

00:27:56   Spatial audio off, spatial audio head tracked, and spatial audio fixed. And then you can switch among them. And it does seem to remember your settings per app, which means that every time I use a different app...

00:28:06   Now I'm using Netflix, now I'm using Hulu, now I'm using Apple TV Plus, in every app I have to convince it no spatial audio. It does seem to remember so far, which is good, but yeah, not a fan.

00:28:17   Oh yeah, and I guess speaking of not a fan, the tapping versus squeezing, I'm getting a lot better at doing the little pinch. Still miss tapping. I really wish they would bring that back in a future version of these, but I'm really not holding my breath.

00:28:29   The squeezing is just... it's worse for my use cases. It occurred to me when I was thinking about the squeezing and all this stuff during the week, I used to frequently knock on the AirPods with my knuckles, or the back of my hand when my fingers were all gross from cooking or washing something or whatever.

00:28:47   Forget about that. Try pinching. If you have gross fingers that have cooking stuff on them, you can't pinch with your knuckles. At least I can't anyway. I guess I could also go with the "hey dingus stop" and "hey dingus play" type of thing.

00:29:04   Anyway, still the audio quality is better enough that I'm definitely going to stick with it, but I will miss tapping.

00:29:11   I still haven't tried spatial audio, nor the pinching versus tapping thing. I only have non-spatial audio tappable AirPods. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about either of those things when eventually I upgrade.

00:29:25   One of you wanted to know what our Monterey situation is, who's updated, who hasn't, etc. Marco and I just got new computers, so I think it's safe to say that we've upgraded.

00:29:34   You have no choice.

00:29:35   Yep.

00:29:36   You didn't upgrade.

00:29:37   What's your situation, John?

00:29:38   Well, I mean, just before we get to me, obviously your new computers all came with Monterey and you can't use anything else, but what about your older/existing computers? Did you bother upgrading those? Marco's got so many computers, I can't keep track, so he's got to have some that are right.

00:29:51   Neither can he.

00:29:52   Did you upgrade everyone else's computer in the house to Monterey? Is your old Mac Mini upgraded to Monterey? What's the upgrade story?

00:29:58   The Mac Mini is not, just because I had no reason to upgrade it to Monterey. It's funny, when the M1 Macs first launched last fall and developers had the opportunity to either leave our apps as is and let them be available, sorry, iOS developers had the ability to let our apps become available in the Mac App Store for M1 Macs, or you could opt out.

00:30:23   And I said at the time, "Why would anybody opt out? This is like free additional users for your app." And I figured, what could possibly go wrong? Of course I'm going to leave Overcast in as, you know, for, able to run on Macs.

00:30:38   Well, it worked okay for the most part for most of the last year until iOS 15 beta started coming out and Mac OS Monterey beta started coming out and they started to become bugs in the, like, now shipping versions of Xcode that build for iOS 15 and Mac OS Monterey.

00:30:58   Now I have to actually test Overcast on Big Sur when building with Monterey's version of Xcode. Is it actually working now or is it going to crash in weird ways? It's no longer like a, like a, you get this for free kind of thing.

00:31:12   So I actually, I'm not saying I'm going to remove it from this, I'm not, but when it does crash on Big Sur, I hear from every single person who uses it and they start leaving one star reviews and bringing my average down.

00:31:23   Even though they are not that numerous, there are enough of them that if the app crashes, I will hear from them. And I won't hear from them in my support email, I'll hear from them in one star reviews.

00:31:33   So, I do have a need now to become a Mac app tester. Like I need to be able to test my app on old versions of Mac OS. I do intend at some point soon to look into, like, how do I virtualize old versions of Mac OS so I can do it that way.

00:31:49   But until I figure that out, I'm just going to leave this Mac Mini running with screen share enabled, which I, maybe I'll get to that story.

00:31:56   But I'll leave it running with screen share enabled in my closet for a while so I can just log into that and test it whenever I need to.

00:32:01   Yeah, I don't believe I upgraded my Mac Mini that's basically a Plex server, little else. But I have upgraded basically everything else that I touch.

00:32:11   I don't even know what version of Mac OS Aaron's adorable is on, but it's probably like two versions old now. But I upgraded everything, it's been fine.

00:32:19   I like having focus modes echoed across all my devices. I know that's very divisive and not everyone will agree with me and that's fine.

00:32:27   But I like it. I don't use it super aggressively, but as an example, I have a podcasting focus mode that comes on at 8 o'clock on Wednesdays and stops at like midnight on Wednesdays.

00:32:37   And so that is an example of something that's echoed across all my devices, which I like.

00:32:42   And I feel like there's some other stuff, although off the top of my head I can't remember what, but I feel like there's some other stuff that I've liked about Monterey.

00:32:49   But buying, oh, AirPlay Receiving is pretty cool. So I can use my iMac Pro or perhaps MacBook Pro as one component of a multi-room audio setup, which I like.

00:33:02   The only thing I didn't like though was apparently it listens on port 5000, which I typically use locally when I write blog posts for my blog.

00:33:11   And I use port 5000 for the web server when I test locally. And I was starting it on the MacBook Pro in order to test or look at a blog post.

00:33:21   And it kept saying, well, the port is in use. And I was like, what are you talking about? Do I have something running somewhere that I don't even realize?

00:33:27   And it took me a little bit of duct-tack going before I realized, oh, apparently it listens on port 5000 of one other one. I don't remember which one.

00:33:33   And I don't know why, but that's the way it works.

00:33:36   I think we both end up with using port 5000 as our local web server thing, because I use the same one.

00:33:42   I have no idea. It's because we're so damn smart, Jon. That's why.

00:33:45   That's weird. It's not a convention that I know of.

00:33:49   Well, is it a node thing? It might be a node thing, because this is a node-based...

00:33:53   I'm not using node.

00:33:54   Well, you do sometimes. Last I heard you were doing a bunch of node for work.

00:33:57   No, I'm talking about my, like, hypercritical.co.

00:34:00   Oh, oh, oh.

00:34:01   My ridiculous stack of Perl garbage. There's no node in there.

00:34:05   Fair enough.

00:34:06   Yeah, that's port 5000.

00:34:07   Oh, funny how that works. Well, anyways.

00:34:10   But no, all in all, it's been going well. How is it on your completely slow and boring Mac Pro?

00:34:16   Well, I mean, the reason I put this topic in here is a lot of people ask, like, how's Monterey going?

00:34:20   We kind of said the same thing quickly with iOS... What the hell number are we on now? 15?

00:34:25   15.

00:34:26   Yeah, and we all just upgraded iOS 15, and it was fine.

00:34:28   I have to say the same thing in Monterey. In fact, the most difficult thing about Monterey was me making sure all my backups were up to date,

00:34:33   because they just take so long, especially the ones to the Synology, because just, I guess...

00:34:39   I don't know. Like, backing up over the network is always just so much slower than backing up to a local disk and when you're in a hurry.

00:34:45   So anyway, I updated all the backups. The new version of SuperDuper is out that supports bootable backups from Big Sur and Monterey.

00:34:52   So I made it fresh to make sure everything was up to date.

00:34:56   What I like to do is all the... The only thing I do before the upgrade is I do all the backups and nothing else.

00:35:01   Don't do any work, because then you have to re-back up, right?

00:35:04   So I do all the backups. I got all my backups all squared away. Back to the backblaze, SuperDuper clone, local time machine, remote time machine.

00:35:11   Then you can upgrade. And I upgraded and it went fine. Unventful. Just did the upgrade. It did its thing.

00:35:17   And nothing broke and everything's good. And I was using myself as the guinea pig.

00:35:22   And my traditional upgrade time is right after we record ATP, so that gives me the maximum amount of time to screw up my setup before the next recording.

00:35:29   So basically, last week, Thursday morning or whatever, I just started this process because I had already done all the backups.

00:35:36   And based on that experience, that it was fine on my computer, I upgraded my iPhone's computer too.

00:35:40   So if people are wondering, "Hey, how's Monterey going?" Now, with the caveat that there is some reports that updating Bridge OS is kind of hosing people's older Macs.

00:35:48   So if you have an older Mac, maybe look up that problem. I couldn't find a good link for it in show notes.

00:35:52   All the ones I saw were just like, "Hey, some older Macs are getting bricked because Bridge OS gets updated or whatever."

00:35:58   And I've had that happen to my Mac Pro in the past and it's no fun. So you do not want to get into this situation.

00:36:02   So it might be worth waiting if you have an older Mac. I wish I could tell you the list of Macs.

00:36:06   I looked at like four different articles and they all just said older Macs. I'm like, "You need to tell me what that means. Which specific Mac should not upgrade?"

00:36:12   Anyway, but if you have a modern Mac, a very up-to-date one, and you're wondering, "Is Monterey okay?"

00:36:18   Monterey 12.0.1 or whatever the version is that doesn't ship on hardware but that you get when you upgrade, it's been fine for me.

00:36:27   I think it's safe for you to upgrade if you have a modern-ish Mac.

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00:38:27   So The Verge released their MacBook Pro reviews, I don't know, a few days ago now.

00:38:37   And there was some very interesting kind of banter in that review.

00:38:43   But most especially around battery life. And they wrote, and I watched the video review and I believe I read the post as well, and the video review was very good too.

00:38:50   But they wrote, "16-inch MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro ran for 16 hours on its battery during continuous use, making it the longest-lasting laptop we've ever tested. Period. Ever, ever."

00:39:02   Which is pretty cool.

00:39:04   Yeah, I mean, The Verge stuff is not particularly scientific in terms of battery testing, but they basically just use the computers to do what they normally do.

00:39:10   So I would imagine this is light use, right? But in any scenario, getting 16 hours of battery.

00:39:16   As they said in the review, they felt like they wanted to stop working and go to sleep, but the computers still had battery.

00:39:21   They ran out of battery before the computer did.

00:39:23   So yeah, that 100 kilowatt, the biggest battery you can put in a laptop and still have it be allowed on a plane,

00:39:31   apparently you put that in combined with an M1 Pro. Not the Max, but the plain old M1 Pro can result in very, very long battery life, which is great.

00:39:39   Now tell me about charging a MacBook Pro via USB-C. I, for one, am extremely happy that that's still a thing, and it sounds like it had to be a thing. Am I right?

00:39:48   Yeah, Ethan C. wrote in to say that his theory is backed up by some links we'll put in the show notes.

00:39:53   "Apple is required to allow charging through at least one USB-C port in order to certify the laptop as Thunderbolt 4 compatible."

00:39:59   Here's some text from this Thunderbolt PDF that says, "Required PC charging on at least one computer port for thin and light notebook that requires less than 100 watts to charge."

00:40:08   And a similar citation from PC Magazine. So it seems like to be properly certified as Thunderbolt 4 you have to do this.

00:40:16   Now that said, Apple has had no problem in the past just doing whatever the hell it wants with supposedly standard interfaces.

00:40:23   An example would be, well I don't actually, I can't say this is non-standard, but it's definitely weird. Someone will write it and tell me whether it's non-standard Apple thing or just like weird.

00:40:31   The USB connector that connected to USB keyboards for Macs back when the power button was still on the keyboard, do you guys remember that?

00:40:40   Oh yeah.

00:40:41   So they had a, it was a USB-A connector but it had like a notch in it. Like it was weird, you couldn't plug in a regular USB-A.

00:40:49   They've always loved notches.

00:40:50   Yeah, well it was like a little, I think it was like a triangular notch or whatever. Because, you know, otherwise, you know, plain old USB, you couldn't put a power button on the keyboard. It just wouldn't work.

00:40:59   So Apple sort of made its own thing. I think that's a totally Apple proprietary thing or it's some weird variant of USB.

00:41:07   But anyway, either way, Apple has no problem doing whatever the hell it feels like with any kind of buses and just saying, hey, this is the way it is in Apple computers.

00:41:13   Or just look at Apple display connector ADC, which was totally made up port with a ton of a bunch of other protocols over it or whatever.

00:41:20   So it's not like Apple was forced to do this, but it just seems like this was the path of least resistance for Apple and we're all glad they did it.

00:41:27   Indeed. Tell me about MacBook Pro compatibility mode and its resolution.

00:41:32   This is a question for both of you to answer. Because I can't test these things and I see these things on the internet and I can't figure out whether they're true or not.

00:41:40   So this is in reference to the sort of the checkbox that's in the get info window that we referred to on the show like right after the MacBook Pros were announced.

00:41:49   We talked about this and now more and more people are discovering it.

00:41:52   It is in Monterey. If you go in the finder, select an application, go to get info or command I, there's a checkbox.

00:41:59   What does it say? It's not it's not listed as compatibility mode.

00:42:03   It is called scale to fit below built in camera.

00:42:07   There you go. Basically what it says is, hey, this application might not know how to deal with a notch.

00:42:12   So just make this application think it is in a 16 by 10 screen. The notch doesn't exist.

00:42:17   And the way I thought it did that was it would just tell the application, hey, the screen bounds end at essentially where the bottom of the menu bar would normally be.

00:42:26   So, hey, you're on a 16 by 10 screen and just everything above that would just be black because the application wouldn't just would just ignore that part.

00:42:34   But if you look at this video that's attached here in this tweet that shows it's that purports to show this feature in action.

00:42:42   What it looks like it does instead is that it scales down the entire interface.

00:42:49   Right. That it like instead of chopping off the top, it takes the picture that would be displayed on the screen and scales it, including on the sides,

00:42:58   like that it basically goes to a non-native resolution by slightly scaling down the whole image so that it gets below the notch.

00:43:04   So it's not just shorter, but it's also narrower. And that seems bad.

00:43:08   That's not what I thought this feature did. And I don't want it to do this. I would much rather have chop off the top pixel so it stays at native res.

00:43:15   So can you guys try this and tell me if this is true? Not it. My fingers on my nose.

00:43:20   We don't want you touching anything. No, you don't need to run a full screen. Just look at look at the terrible video with background music.

00:43:25   Probably just bled through my headphones. I'm not listening to the background music. So but they're running this full screen.

00:43:32   Well, screw it. I'll just try it. All right. So I took day one as an example of something that I know supports full screen mode.

00:43:36   And I've ticked scale to fit below built in camera. I'm now closing the info window. I'm starting day one.

00:43:41   And it's just in a window exactly as you would expect. However, when I go full screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:49   It comes in a little bit for sure. It comes in laterally and vertically.

00:43:53   Is it displaying non-native res? It seems like it would have to be, huh?

00:43:57   I don't know. I took a screenshot. Let's see how big the screenshot is.

00:44:00   Well, anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if this mode is not something that got a lot of time put into it by Apple's engineers before the release of these things.

00:44:06   Because, you know, I mean, first of all, a lot of this stuff kind of seems like it was a little bit, you know, last minute.

00:44:11   But also, as soon as an app is built with the modern tools, like with the current version of Xcode, that option disappears for it.

00:44:18   So this is not something that Apple intends to have as like a long term thing that people are going to do for certain apps all the time.

00:44:24   This is literally just like, let's get us through this transition period as smoothly and possibly hackily as we can.

00:44:31   But this is a temporary thing. This is not going to be a thing that you use more than a few months.

00:44:37   I don't know if this is, there's an info.plist key that's NS something or other or whatever.

00:44:42   And I don't know if that is the exact same thing. I don't think it's just building on the new tools.

00:44:46   The new tools may give you that key in your info.plist by default, but you could in theory just delete it off of there and still build with the newest SDK.

00:44:52   So I don't know if this checkbox is the same as that info.plist key.

00:44:57   But anyway, this is disappointing because what it means is that you get all these advantages that we were talking about.

00:45:03   Having more screen space and having native resolution and always having the ability to ignore the notch if you want to on a per app basis.

00:45:11   But now it seems like if you do that on a per app basis with your older apps, you're giving up the native resolution.

00:45:16   Yeah, I think you might be right.

00:45:18   Which people maybe don't notice because again, there's a lot of pixels there and it's like 254 dpi or whatever.

00:45:23   And it does make sense when Marco was saying maybe they didn't want to put too much time into this.

00:45:29   Scaling is less work because then you're like, "Look, I don't change anything."

00:45:32   As far as the app is concerned, it is displaying exactly as it would if it was notch savvy.

00:45:37   It's just that we literally shrink. On output we shrink the image so that it avoids the notch.

00:45:42   But everything else about it is exactly identical.

00:45:45   Because that way they wouldn't have to build on a whole thing where if the app asks the hardware, "How big is your screen in pixels?"

00:45:51   It can just give the same answer no matter what and just scale it down.

00:45:56   It doesn't think it's on a 16x10 screen where the other apps think they're on a 16x10 point something screen.

00:46:05   Right, yeah.

00:46:07   If we figure out more about that we'll update, but otherwise it's one minor disappointment.

00:46:10   Everyone should update their apps to be notch savvy.

00:46:13   And speaking of the notch, apparently its code name was "Daisy" as per Felipe Esposito.

00:46:19   I just thought that was cute because that's my dog's name.

00:46:21   And it has some symbols pulled out of the class number or something.

00:46:27   You get display daisy bounds, get daisy width. That's cute.

00:46:33   It's a notch shaped notch.

00:46:35   Reference acknowledged.

00:46:38   Alright, 120Hz scrolling in Mac OS on the new MacBook Pros. I can tell you from experience, very hit or miss.

00:46:45   That's what the 9to5 Mac article says.

00:46:47   Apparently catalyst apps run at 120Hz as you would expect.

00:46:51   Although on iOS there's still some things you might have to do to make your animations run at 120Hz.

00:46:56   But we were talking about Marco didn't even notice the 120Hz when he had his new computer last week.

00:47:01   And we said, "Oh, it must be in Safari."

00:47:03   Well, apparently Safari is one of the apps that doesn't support 120Hz because Apple has to do some update or something to it.

00:47:11   Which is weird and kind of disappointing.

00:47:13   The funny thing is that apparently someone on Twitter said that you can get 120Hz if you run Chrome in a Windows VM.

00:47:20   Virtualizing Windows and then you're running Windows Chrome and scroll that and you get 120Hz.

00:47:28   But not in native Mac Safari. So Apple needs to get on this.

00:47:32   I'm sure they will, but that is quite funny.

00:47:35   Alright, Marco, tell me about your mystery terabyte. Did you find it?

00:47:38   Not really, but I can tell that it's my photos.

00:47:42   So many people wrote in to say, "Okay, you gotta give this thing full disk access."

00:47:47   Or, "Run this thing as root." Or both. Or disable SIP or whatever.

00:47:50   No matter what I did, I could not find what that terabyte was.

00:47:55   It always showed up as miscellaneous or system files or inaccessible or whatever.

00:47:59   You know, in every single tool people recommended.

00:48:01   I did learn when I got my new desktop laptop, I decided to sync my entire photo library to it.

00:48:08   Because I now had the space to do that.

00:48:10   And it all downloaded and sure enough it was about 900GB.

00:48:15   When I'm looking at the mystery space on my Mac Mini, it is pretty much exactly that size.

00:48:22   It varies a little bit gig to gig here and there, but it's about 900GB.

00:48:26   So, it's very clear to me that when I told the Mac Mini, "Store my photo library on this external USB SSD,"

00:48:36   and it only stored 70GB there, it's very clear to me that that function doesn't work.

00:48:42   Like, the function of, "I'm telling you to store this photo library on this other volume," can't be trusted.

00:48:50   Because what it clearly did instead was store all those photos on my actual main volume.

00:48:57   That is weird though, because like I said, my photo library is on an external disk on my computer,

00:49:02   and it will not fit on the main drive.

00:49:04   Like, the library itself is like, you know, 700 or 800GB,

00:49:07   and this thing has a 1TB drive that is filled with other stuff that takes up that space.

00:49:13   Like, it can't possibly be putting the photos on the main drive.

00:49:16   So, somehow there is, like, I didn't tell it to do it, I just put the photo library over there,

00:49:21   and then I, you know, started up photos holding down the option key and picked that external one.

00:49:25   Do you have it marked as the system library, right?

00:49:28   Yeah, and it still is.

00:49:30   Like, the one on the external drive is still marked as the current system library,

00:49:33   and it seems to get new photos, but there seems to be some kind of mechanism that is probably in some kind of bug state.

00:49:39   Like, I don't think it started out this way.

00:49:41   It's probably in some kind of bug state, but now it's just writing everything to mystery locked storage somewhere on the main drive.

00:49:47   I wonder if you'd, like, deleted your photo library, right?

00:49:51   Would that purge the space and then re-initialize it, essentially, on the external drive only?

00:49:57   Would it download all the photos to the external one?

00:49:59   Because that's definitely weird.

00:50:00   I mean, this is one of the reasons why I decided to do a clean install on the desktop laptop,

00:50:04   instead of migrating that install over.

00:50:06   Because that's also the same one that every time I reboot, it has the recovered items or whatever on the desktop,

00:50:13   and then I can't delete it.

00:50:14   Every time?

00:50:15   Yeah, or every time I get a system update.

00:50:17   That's not helping.

00:50:18   No, it isn't every boot. It's every time I get an OS update.

00:50:20   So it adds those relocated items or whatever it's called, and then I still haven't been able to empty my trash for a year.

00:50:26   Oh, my gosh.

00:50:28   Because every time I empty it, it says, "Oh, sorry, X11 can't be deleted."

00:50:31   So I skip, skip, skip, and then I have it empty everything else.

00:50:34   I told you to go onto your .trash sold and use RM. Remember, we talked about that.

00:50:37   Yeah, and I just--so the solution to that, many people wrote it and was like, you know,

00:50:42   "Okay, first disable system integrity protection and recovery, and then do the--and then remove it with the special way,

00:50:47   and then go back."

00:50:48   And I just never felt like doing that.

00:50:49   So I just have been hitting skip every time I--like the three files that won't get deleted.

00:50:54   Anyway, so there were multiple reasons why I decided to leave that installation behind.

00:50:58   I have to say, by the way, I have some experience slinging photo libraries around having the same photo library

00:51:02   on multiple computers and having to move it from an internal next-door drive.

00:51:05   Photo library, especially, you know, only if you use iCloud Photos, it's pretty easy to just, like,

00:51:12   either move it from one place to another as is, you know, copy it.

00:51:16   I've copied my photo library from one disk to another.

00:51:18   I've done, like, super-duper backups of my photo library disk onto another thing,

00:51:23   or just to delete it and just to say, "Hey, iCloud, give me back all my photos."

00:51:27   Like, that's the--it is--with Marco's weird bug case aside, it is supposed to be just a self-contained .photo library directory

00:51:35   that contains all your stuff, and it's just one huge directory tree, and you can move it around just like--

00:51:41   it looks like a single file, but you can move it around like a giant directory tree,

00:51:44   and you can delete it and reconstitute it, which I think is the right thing to do.

00:51:47   I mean, I'm not sure you need to do a clean OS install, but if it's in this weird state,

00:51:52   I would just delete that entirely.

00:51:54   Make sure you have good backups.

00:51:55   Delete that library entirely, and then just get all your disk stuff sorted out.

00:51:59   Before--you know, don't even launch photos anymore.

00:52:01   Just get your disk stuff sorted out so your disk looks normal,

00:52:03   and then you could then launch photos, and it would be like, "Hey, where's my photo library?"

00:52:07   And you would say, "Oh, make a new one here," and it's your system library,

00:52:10   and turn on iCloud Photos, and then just wait, you know, five hours for it to download.

00:52:14   Well, and, you know, that's what I ended up doing with the new computer,

00:52:17   but my concern there was that this is the very first time, like, this--that break,

00:52:22   as I'm abandoning that installation and, you know, having it redown everything,

00:52:26   this is the first time that I am losing control of the files.

00:52:32   Like, until this point, that has been my photo library since I started using Apple Photos,

00:52:39   and I've just migrated the actual files by copying them to the next computer,

00:52:43   every time that computer has changed.

00:52:45   This is the first time I'm taking Apple's version of the files as the canonical ones,

00:52:49   and so while I have no reason not to trust photo library,

00:52:53   it's been very reliable for me over time, that still is a bit of a leap of faith that, like,

00:52:57   "Okay, I am no longer copying from computer to computer the ones I know are correct.

00:53:02   I'm now hoping that Apple's versions are correct and complete and all there."

00:53:08   I think you already crossed that bridge in a recent update, maybe one or two OSs ago,

00:53:13   where they basically changed the path of every single file inside your library,

00:53:17   although you didn't know it. Lots of people complained about it

00:53:19   because they had been relying on the paths inside the library,

00:53:22   but they basically changed them all to UUIDs, and I don't think,

00:53:25   like, when it was, like, an incredibly long updated library process,

00:53:28   I don't think it just renamed them.

00:53:30   I think what it actually did is pull new ones from iCloud,

00:53:33   put them in the UUID location, and delete your local ones.

00:53:36   I'm not entirely sure what that process was like,

00:53:38   so you may have already crossed that bridge without even knowing it.

00:53:40   You just didn't know that it was essentially abandoning years and years' worth of files

00:53:45   downloaded from cameras and replacing them with an entirely new directory structure

00:53:50   where every one of your photos is named with a UUID.

00:53:53   But that already happened. You did that, like, a year ago and didn't know it.

00:53:56   Yeah, because I especially, like, I am very careful never to do that with music

00:54:01   because iTunes Match is not that reliable.

00:54:03   Yes, yes.

00:54:04   And for this music move, I actually am very glad that I have the Mac Mini still,

00:54:10   that was being my source. I still have it. I didn't, like, blow it away or sell it yet.

00:54:14   Because I thought I moved all my music over just by copying the music directory

00:54:18   and then, you know, opening up new music on a new computer.

00:54:21   One song in each of my Phish concerts in a recent week or two,

00:54:26   like, one song in each concert was grayed out.

00:54:29   It would say, you know, location iCloud.

00:54:32   But I couldn't download it, and when I double-clicked it to play, nothing would happen.

00:54:36   I think, uh, okay. Something didn't work.

00:54:40   So I, like, recopied, like, with Rsync.

00:54:42   Like, I just quit music, Rsynced from the old to the new.

00:54:46   Just copied the whole directory over again, start over. Okay.

00:54:49   And eventually I did get that to work. I don't know what the heck happened the first time.

00:54:52   But, yeah, there has been some weirdness with music over the years,

00:54:56   so I never want to have to do that with music.

00:54:58   I never want to have to rely on that.

00:55:00   But it does seem like Photos is much more reliable in that way.

00:55:04   Yeah, and I don't know what happened with that.

00:55:06   I mean, maybe that's a feature that we just don't know about.

00:55:08   If someone on the Photos team knows a legit scenario in which Marco could get into the situation

00:55:13   where Ostensil will be the photo libraries on an external disk,

00:55:15   but it's taking hundreds of gigs on the internal one, please let us know.

00:55:18   Yeah, you know, I'm just glad that that is not my system of record.

00:55:23   That's all I'm saying.

00:55:24   Uh-huh.

00:55:25   Mm-hmm.

00:55:26   This is all a success story for photo libraries.

00:55:29   The fact that he could just delete it and pull it back down.

00:55:31   That's the magic.

00:55:33   Yeah, I mean, that's the great thing.

00:55:35   You know, it is very, I guess, it's a good piece of mind to know that photo library is a pretty good backup.

00:55:44   Like, it did fully sync over.

00:55:46   As far as I can tell, it looks like everything's there.

00:55:48   Like, I don't think it's missing anything.

00:55:50   I couldn't find anything that would be missing.

00:55:52   But it is still a little unnerving.

00:55:54   Yeah.

00:55:55   Related to this, although it has nothing to do with Mac OS,

00:55:58   Kevin Chen wrote in to say that iOS isn't always good about deleting purgeable files when the phone is low in pre-space,

00:56:04   but when ProRes is enabled, the camera app gains a "free resources" button to trigger this deletion manually.

00:56:11   Apple says, "Freeing resources will clear temporary system or app data that might be stored in your phone.

00:56:15   It doesn't permanently delete unrecoverable data, but might require some apps to refresh data when they're used again."

00:56:20   It continues later on.

00:56:22   "The camera app will also free resources automatically when ProRes is enabled.

00:56:25   In less than five minutes, a recording time is available."

00:56:28   And apparently it will free up about 15 minutes worth at a time, which in ProRes is 90 gigs,

00:56:35   which is bananas, when you're in 4K 60.

00:56:38   So that's just something useful to know.

00:56:40   I wonder if there's like this sort of skunkworks team at Apple behind both the sync messages button in Messages

00:56:47   and the free resources button in camera.

00:56:49   Like, imagine a button to make the computer do a thing instead of just like sort of crossing your finger

00:56:55   and saying, "Boy, I hope this phone notices that it's almost out of space and frees some space for me soon."

00:57:00   No, just free resources!

00:57:01   And the fact that it does it in chunks is terrible, but like sync messages, free resources, don't be afraid to put those buttons in.

00:57:07   But apparently only two teams in all of Apple have been somehow able to sneak through a useful button in their UI

00:57:14   that lets people do a thing that a lot of people want to do, which is do the thing now, free the space now,

00:57:20   purge the purgeable space now, because I need the space now and you're not getting the hint.

00:57:24   It's my space and I want it now.

00:57:27   You skipped over one item, and Ezekiel Allen said in Mac OS Monterey, I think we might have mentioned this before,

00:57:34   but it's worth bringing up again, there is now a UI and disk utility for time machine snapshots.

00:57:39   In fact, I'm pretty sure we talked about this in the past.

00:57:41   But just to remind people, if you don't want to use tmutil and you don't understand where your space is going or whatever

00:57:46   and you want to see how many time machine snapshots do I have and how much space are they taking,

00:57:49   a reminder that disk utility, the GUI app that comes with your Mac, has a way to do that.

00:57:55   You can see all your snapshots and you can delete them.

00:57:57   You just have to go to the view menu and select show APFS snapshots.

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00:59:54   Thank you so much to Linode, my favorite place to run servers, for sponsoring our show.

00:59:59   Marco, you have some experience with Lutron Quesada.

01:00:05   You know, I think we might have mentioned this offhandedly last week, but you and I were jockeying over who was going to talk about Quesada, who did not sponsor this week.

01:00:13   But I wanted to talk and do the sponsor read because I freaking love it and as far as I knew you love it.

01:00:18   So tell me, what's going on with Lutron Quesada?

01:00:20   Yeah, so we decided to talk about this week as an actual topic because they are sponsoring our show.

01:00:24   They sponsored last week and they're sponsoring next week.

01:00:27   And so I thought it would be weird to talk about it as a topic on an episode they are sponsoring because we try to be independent with that kind of stuff.

01:00:34   So we decided this week is the time we're going to talk about it.

01:00:37   And obviously with that giant disclaimer they are sponsored, but I've been using them now for a little over a year in various roles in my house.

01:00:46   And so if you recall, the last time we mentioned this kind of stuff, so Lutron Quesada just for the record is a smart home system of switches and outlets by Lutron.

01:00:57   And I think they have blinds and stuff, there's a couple other things, but it's mostly light switches and a couple of switched outlet things.

01:01:05   Yeah, and it's worth noting that they work on some sort of proprietary radio frequency or something like that.

01:01:09   It is not thread and I have no idea if it is or ever will be thread compatible, but it's spiritually similar in that it's got its own hub box that will spew RF or whatever it needs to do in order to talk to the switches.

01:01:24   And then the hub is hooked up to Ethernet so you can talk to HomeKit and whatever else you might have in your house.

01:01:30   But the reason this is important is because you're not relying on every one of these switches to get on your Wi-Fi.

01:01:34   And in my experience, and I think I can speak for Marco in saying this, in Marco's experience this is way more reliable.

01:01:41   And in almost all these cases there are physical switches that you can use if you want to completely ignore HomeKit in its entirety, which is really, really nice too.

01:01:50   Yeah, and this is exactly why I wanted to talk about it because the last time we talked about this kind of thing, we talked a few months back about, like I was frustrated with just the general unreliability of Wi-Fi smart outlets and Wi-Fi smart light bulbs.

01:02:06   Because it just seemed like Wi-Fi stuff works like 90% of the time and then just doesn't.

01:02:12   And it's very hard to find good reliable stuff. And I mentioned in particular there was a role I had in my house that we have an ice maker that is loud enough that we don't want it running during quiet evening TV or movie watching time.

01:02:28   But in the middle of the day it's fine. And so I wanted to put it on some kind of timer outlet where I could adjust when it runs and still be able to run it manually if we've ran out of ice or something.

01:02:38   But that doesn't really happen. But anyway, I decided that the regular 70s rotating knob timer switch, I wanted something a little bit smarter than that that I could control.

01:02:47   Also, the ice maker is built into the cabinet, or built into the counter, and the outlet is behind it.

01:02:54   And so to access the outlet you have to pull the whole thing out and it's a big deal.

01:02:58   So I wanted something that I wouldn't have to ever pull the ice maker out to access physically.

01:03:03   So something that had to be able to be put back there and A, still work and B, never need to be touched.

01:03:10   And for a while I tried a couple of different Wi-Fi smart outlets back there and they were unreliable.

01:03:18   They would work for a few weeks and then stop working. And then, oh, I've got to pull the whole thing out. That sucks.

01:03:23   And so I eventually switched. There is a hole in the Lutron Quesada lineup. They don't make a plain smart outlet the way you think of smart outlets.

01:03:34   They make one that is like a lamp box that has a built-in dimmer and a two-prong outlet only.

01:03:41   Because you don't really want to be running a dimmer circuit on anything but an old lamp because that could mess up other electronics, I think.

01:03:50   So the idea is you're not supposed to plug in an appliance into this thing. So they have that.

01:03:55   They also make an outdoor switched outlet that is huge because it has a whole outdoor housing, this big, thick, heavy cable.

01:04:04   Well, I put one of those behind my ice maker. Because it's the only switched outlet they make as part of their system that is not that lamp dimmer thing.

01:04:13   So I installed that. Whenever we talked about that topic, which was probably three, four months ago now, something like that, right?

01:04:19   Something like that.

01:04:20   It has been rock solid reliable since then. A hundred percent of the time.

01:04:25   And that's something I don't think I can say a hundred percent reliable about any other smart home thing I have ever used.

01:04:33   Like, never. That literally has never happened. The Quesada stuff is a hundred percent reliable. And it isn't just that.

01:04:39   So I also have, I remember back then we mentioned too, when we did our renovations here that they installed for code compliance for the outdoor staircase lighting.

01:04:49   They installed some staircase lights and a Quesada system to make them run on timers to only run when it's dark outside.

01:04:55   And so I had actually been running Quesada stuff for like a year and I hadn't even really thought about it ever.

01:05:02   Because it just works. It worked every single day. It just quietly works. And you never have to think about it. You set it up and then it just works.

01:05:12   The strategy they use, I think what Casey mentioned earlier, is very important. They don't make smart light bulbs. They make switches and a couple of outlets.

01:05:21   And so you can use whatever bulbs you want. And this is great because I actually, I am a huge light bulb nerd.

01:05:27   Like, I love getting new, cool, nice lights. Like, getting more light for the same wattage and getting higher color rendering index.

01:05:34   I'm actually, I wanted to mention also, I'm extremely happy with these lights I have from a company called Waveform Lighting.

01:05:41   I don't know how good or well known this is, but somebody tipped me off to this a few months back and I finally got them.

01:05:46   They are the nicest LED bulbs I have ever used. Like, the light they produce, it's like super high CRI and super low flicker.

01:05:54   My god are they nice. Like, they are so good. The only thing is they aren't dimmable. But otherwise, they are super nice.

01:06:01   Anyway, Waveform Lighting also, strong recommendation. And yeah, I have the 4000K ones in my office there. Oh god, I love them so much.

01:06:08   Anyway, what's great about the Caseta stuff is that it works at the switch level so you can have a wall switch that is smart controlled.

01:06:16   And that is by far the nicest way to do it. Because then, you can control it from the app. You can control it from a home kit.

01:06:23   You can get their little wireless switches, the little Pico switches, and you can put those wherever you want.

01:06:28   So, I also have a pair of those on my desk for the two lights that I have in my office.

01:06:35   I have like a ceiling light and like a kind of on one wall I have these other lights.

01:06:39   And those are all Caseta. The wall lights are actually, they plug into an outlet and so I have another one of those outdoor outlet switches from Caseta to control that.

01:06:49   And then I can put over on my wall a switch that looks and works like any other light switch for that outlet plug.

01:06:58   I also have on the wall in the regular light switch switch box a smart Caseta light switch that controls the ceiling lights.

01:07:06   And so what this means is nobody else who ever enters this room or lives in my house has to know that these are smart lights.

01:07:14   Because there's a button on the wall. You turn it on and they turn on. You turn it off and they turn off.

01:07:20   And it's the only way, like you can't like trip over the cord for the lamp or accidentally switch off the lamp and your smart bulb doesn't work anymore.

01:07:26   Like that doesn't happen. Like it's just a switch on the wall that controls the lights on the ceiling.

01:07:32   And it happens to also be smart. And that is the best of all worlds.

01:07:37   When you combine that with the reliability they have, the only limitation I have for Caseta is that if you're using the outdoor plug as your switched outlet, it's kind of big and kind of expensive.

01:07:51   I think it's like $70 because it's not made for that obviously but I'm using it that way anyway.

01:07:55   I'm looking forward to actually when I have my Christmas lights this year outside, I bought a couple more of those to use for that.

01:08:01   Because a couple of reasons. Number one, again, these things are rock solid reliable.

01:08:06   Number two, I'm just getting a little more conscious over time of what kind of hardware manufacturer I'm letting into my house and onto my network.

01:08:16   You know, I don't really want a bunch of like no name cheap stuff from Amazon from God knows what company running God knows what insecure software on my network.

01:08:29   And I know I can do tricks like isolating it on its own private network and stuff like that but that's a lot of administration and work and stuff and most people don't even do that.

01:08:38   And so I don't want to have to deal with that. I want to get my stuff in my house that is on my network from a smaller number of companies with a higher level of trust.

01:08:48   So I don't want to get the $10 smart outlet on Amazon that's made by God knows what.

01:08:52   Not only do those not work very well but I feel better not having a lot of that stuff in my network.

01:08:59   But anyway, so I mentioned back then also this past summer we were talking about security cameras and I was putting up a couple of cameras under my house because of some problems we were having.

01:09:09   In the area where we park our bikes, it's kind of under the house in an area that has some physical light fixtures like on the wall to light up that area.

01:09:18   There was a switch on the wall to turn those lights on. And I thought wouldn't it be nice to have a motion sensor that every time we rode up with our bikes if it was dark out it would turn those lights on automatically and light up the area for us.

01:09:32   Seems reasonable. People have been using motion sensors for that kind of stuff for decades. I thought I'll do it the smart way.

01:09:38   So number one I thought I will convert the switch in the wall here to a Caseta switch. Great. Then I can run HomeKit automations to detect motion in this area and trigger that switch to turn on.

01:09:51   And the Logitech Circle View camera that I have there has motion control built in. So I thought this would be great.

01:09:58   The camera will detect the motion. I'm already running the camera. So here's what happens when you do that.

01:10:03   Walking, riding your bike in, the camera detects motion and turns the light on.

01:10:09   Now if I'm honest, the speed at which it turns the light on after detecting motion is kind of variable.

01:10:16   Just like again, think of any home stuff you've ever used. It's always like this, right? Any like smart home stuff.

01:10:23   It's like it works in two seconds most of the time. But sometimes five seconds and sometimes infinite seconds. It never works.

01:10:30   So you never know. It's always very variable and it's a little bit slow sometimes.

01:10:35   So that was problem number one with the Logitech motion sensor setup.

01:10:39   Problem number two is that you'd say alright when you detect motion turn the light on for whatever minutes, x minutes, and then turn the light off if there's no more motion.

01:10:49   Well guess what would happen? The light would get turned off and the camera would say something has changed. There's motion.

01:10:56   Because the difference in picture between the light being on and off was considered by the Logitech Circle View Camera to be motion.

01:11:05   So it would get into an infinite loop or it would just keep turning itself on forever.

01:11:10   So that was not going to work. So I thought okay, I have to separate the rules of motion detection and this camera.

01:11:20   Because obviously that's not going to work. So most motion detectors I don't think work in the visible spectrum.

01:11:24   I think they're infrared based. So I figured alright maybe that's the problem.

01:11:27   The camera is doing it optically in the visible spectrum of light. So it's considering this change in illumination to be a big motion event.

01:11:33   If I can get any other motion sensor that probably won't happen.

01:11:37   There are HomeKit motion sensors. Not many of them. The best reviewed one is by the company Eve.

01:11:43   I got the Eve motion sensor and I've heard Merlin talk about how good their stuff can be.

01:11:47   I even got the Eve extend because it's in an area below the house. It's kind of in a poor Wi-Fi area.

01:11:54   I have since put an access point down there to fix the Wi-Fi but it's still very far from any kind of Bluetooth reception for any HomeKit hub that might be at my house.

01:12:03   Is this an outdoor motion detector?

01:12:05   Of course it is. No it's not. It wasn't. But this is an area where it's very covered. It's pretty far from the LMS.

01:12:13   Have we not been through this before?

01:12:15   No no no John and Marco. As much as I want to make fun of Marco about this one. Apparently it is IPX3 water resistance.

01:12:21   Now I have no idea offhand if that's like a droplet or...

01:12:24   Alright well then so that must be. I mean unless they think your house is going to have water in it. There's got to be some kind of outdoor thing right?

01:12:30   No I mean like in this particular location I can use pretty much anything as long as I can tolerate temperature extremes.

01:12:36   Because you know it does get pretty cold in the winter. But otherwise like this no rain gets to where this is. Ever.

01:12:42   Condensation. We talked about this before. Condensation is a thing.

01:12:45   Yes but anyway so...

01:12:47   That's what distinguishes an indoor from an outdoor thing. Alright so go on.

01:12:50   Anyway so I tried the Eve motion sensor and it worked occasionally.

01:12:57   Just like every other HomeKit thing. It works sometimes and it was kind of slow to respond just like the Logitech thing.

01:13:06   Eventually I decided this is not for me so I took that back in and I got the Caseta motion sensor.

01:13:13   The Caseta motion sensor is a little bit limited because it's not a HomeKit device.

01:13:17   But you can set up automation in the Caseta app that when that sensor detects motion it will turn on the lights that are in whatever room you say it's in.

01:13:27   Night and day difference. So first of all 100% reliable.

01:13:33   It works every single time and it detects zero false things. It doesn't care at all when the light turns off. It doesn't treat that as motion.

01:13:42   And best of all it's so freaking fast. You can ride a bike up into this area as you're still riding the bike and it turns on in time.

01:13:52   It's so much faster than everything else because it's kind of like when your hand touches a hot stove and your brain doesn't have to process that to say "Oh pull away the hand."

01:14:02   It just doesn't. It's like that kind of difference where the HomeKit stuff always felt like "Hey I detected motion. Send somebody a memo about it."

01:14:11   And then somebody goes "Oh is that Bob? Is he saying there's motion? Oh hey Joe turn those lights on."

01:14:18   Whereas this is just like boom motion. It's as if the motion sensor is built into the lights.

01:14:25   That's how fast this is. And when you compare it to the HomeKit stuff. Oh my god. So anyway I am just so incredibly happy with Lutron Quesada.

01:14:34   And I wanted to tell all of you this in an episode they were not sponsoring because I want you to really know it's authentic.

01:14:42   That it's just so good. It's so reliable. And the smart outlet situation is a little bit limited and pricey.

01:14:49   But otherwise I don't see any major downsides except for the fact that they only make a certain set of types of things.

01:14:56   Like they don't make thermostats and stuff like that. Obviously you got to go to other things for that.

01:15:01   But yeah for the things they do make. Man they're good. And they are literally the only smart home system that I have found that is reliable.

01:15:11   And that I don't want to throw out the window after like a month.

01:15:14   You know I don't want to belabor the point so I'll just very briefly say that in my experience I completely agree with you.

01:15:21   I think we talked about several times months ago we put a screen in porch in the back of the house earlier this year.

01:15:28   And we used Quesada switches for the fans there. And then I got a B and my bonnet to change all of the switches in the house.

01:15:38   From the little levers that stick out. I believe they're called a toggle switch.

01:15:44   To a decorator or rocker switch which I think looks far more modern and sleeker.

01:15:50   And so I switched all of the switches in the house. And only maybe five of them I replaced with Quesada switches.

01:15:57   Not because I didn't want to replace all of them with Quesada stuff.

01:16:01   But because it is relatively expensive. Like you can get really crummy versions of a lot of their stuff for considerably less money.

01:16:09   But they don't work.

01:16:10   Yeah in this case you very much get what you pay for.

01:16:13   Could not agree more.

01:16:14   Like a dimmer switch for them is what like 80 bucks something like that?

01:16:17   No I think it's like 60 which is still a lot of money don't get me wrong.

01:16:20   But it works every time.

01:16:23   Yeah and that might be two times as much as some other weird Wi-Fi thing from Amazon.

01:16:27   But I'm telling you the difference is it matters. The difference matters a lot.

01:16:32   Yeah and I was able to wire these you know myself.

01:16:36   And I am a very poor homeowner in that I am very bad at all home maintenance things of any sort.

01:16:42   But I was able to do it. Some of their smart switches don't require a neutral line.

01:16:47   Some of them do. But some of them also do not.

01:16:50   I want to say the fan switches required a neutral line.

01:16:54   But I don't think regular like on offer maybe was the dimmer didn't check my work on this.

01:17:00   But it is an option for those of you who don't have neutral lines in your boxes.

01:17:04   But this stuff is extremely reliable. It works every time.

01:17:08   And I think I'm cribbing from Quinn in saying this.

01:17:12   But it is incredibly important to have non-smart options.

01:17:15   I don't mean a physical switch that then talks to HomeKit to do things.

01:17:18   I mean a physical switch that physically switches things.

01:17:21   You know what I mean?

01:17:22   And that's what the Quesada stuff does.

01:17:24   And it's excellent.

01:17:26   I would look at Quinn's review which we'll put a link in the show notes to it.

01:17:30   His video review is very good.

01:17:32   And he was talking about his smart home in general so it's not strictly limited to Quesada.

01:17:36   But he talks a lot about Quesada and has a lot of the same things to say.

01:17:40   So I don't want to belabor it any further.

01:17:42   But hard agree.

01:17:43   I was overjoyed when we were able to get them to sponsor the show because it's one of those sponsors.

01:17:48   I mean we love all of our sponsors.

01:17:50   But there's some that we really, really love.

01:17:52   And this is one of them.

01:17:54   So yeah, Lutron Quesada stuff.

01:17:56   You get what you pay for.

01:17:57   They can run with that.

01:17:58   It's just so nice to have stuff be 100% reliable.

01:18:02   Oftentimes when we replace some kind of old technology with something that we think is new and better.

01:18:09   Oftentimes we add coolness and capabilities and convenience at the cost of reliability.

01:18:17   You know a lot of old tech works basically 100% of the time.

01:18:21   And it has worked that way for decades.

01:18:23   And then we computer guys come in and we're like, "Hey, we can do this better."

01:18:26   And it's like, yeah, but then it doesn't work.

01:18:28   So smart home stuff is definitely one of those things.

01:18:32   And so to have something that literally does work 100% of the time is like game changing.

01:18:36   Speaking of game changing, let's talk about MacBook Pros.

01:18:40   So mine arrived on this past Monday I believe it was.

01:18:46   The MacBook Pro seemed to get stuck in, I think it was Shanghai.

01:18:52   I might have said Shenzhen last time.

01:18:53   It was somewhere in China for a while.

01:18:55   Eventually got moving.

01:18:56   It went via I believe Korea and then Alaska and then Louisville as UPS shipments are wont to do.

01:19:03   And then eventually arrived to me.

01:19:05   Actually a shade earlier than UPS had estimated.

01:19:08   I think it was a day earlier than UPS had estimated when it finally got moving again.

01:19:11   And it came about midday.

01:19:13   And a lot of this I think Marco covered last week.

01:19:17   So I'm going to try to be brief, but if we end up going off on a tangent, so be it.

01:19:21   Us?

01:19:22   Yeah, I know, right?

01:19:23   I want to talk about several things.

01:19:25   And let me set, this is probably going to be relevant in a few minutes, but let me set a little bit of expectations.

01:19:30   I have this iMac Pro, I have a 2020 MacBook Pro, and I really, really love both machines.

01:19:38   They're really great machines.

01:19:39   But the bill of goods that I allowed myself to get sold,

01:19:42   which I'm not saying is fact or fiction, I'm just saying this is what I was kind of setting myself up to believe,

01:19:47   was that on M1 machines, particularly these new ones, basically everything is instant and you never have to wait for anything ever again.

01:19:53   And that is kind of what I expected.

01:19:56   I expected this monitor, screen display, whatever, to be brilliant.

01:20:00   And I expected this thing to be a little bit on the chunky side, but overall not too different than what I've got.

01:20:05   So with that in mind, physical design, I think the weight, not having measured it and not having looked it up,

01:20:11   I think John had looked it up last week, but the weight as compared to my 2020 Intel MacBook Pro seems to be approximately equivalent.

01:20:19   I'm sure that it's not actually equivalent, but it seems to be about the same.

01:20:23   The physical design, I think it's good.

01:20:25   I think later on, actually, John had asked in the show notes about how slidey it is.

01:20:32   And I hadn't thought about it until I read that in the show notes, but it is a lot more slidey than it was before.

01:20:37   I think the material on the feet might be slightly different.

01:20:39   So it does shimmy across my glass desk a little easier than the last one did.

01:20:43   But it's not ridiculous. It's just noticeably less tacky, I guess you could say.

01:20:50   I wonder if that was a reason I put this in is because I wondered if it was true, so thanks for conferring.

01:20:55   But I also wonder if that's an intentional feature because this is a trade-off with feet on a laptop.

01:20:59   You do want them to be grippy, but I have definitely seen people expect to be able to shove their laptop over

01:21:06   or even just rotate it so someone else can see it, and the feet are so tacky that it just doesn't want to do that.

01:21:11   So I think there is probably a balance between making it easy to move your thing around on the surface versus making it secure.

01:21:17   Where do you think this falls? It obviously feels less tacky, but does it feel insecure, like you're going to accidentally knock it off,

01:21:23   like it's on wheels, or is it just less tacky in comparison?

01:21:26   I would say it's less tacky. Also, again, it's not fair because I use a glass top desk,

01:21:31   which is probably more slippy slidey than, say, wood or something like that would be.

01:21:35   It might be less slippy slidey depending on if the glass is wet.

01:21:39   If the glass is wet, it's definitely more slippy.

01:21:42   And you have a lot of water around your computers a lot.

01:21:44   That's true. I do have a water bottle, but it is capped about three inches from the computer as we speak.

01:21:50   Nevertheless, I would prefer it to be slightly more tacky, but it's not so slippy that I find it to be bothersome.

01:21:58   It's not like the computer is moving when I'm just using it, but if I put really any amount of pressure on it

01:22:03   in order to slide it, it will slide.

01:22:05   So I'm not saying it's bad. I actually don't have my old laptop near me. It's downstairs.

01:22:11   But I would say I would probably prefer it a little bit tackier, but not necessarily as tacky as the old one was.

01:22:17   But again, by no means is it bad.

01:22:19   Other than that, the shell of it, as we've talked about, some areas are curvier when maybe they weren't before,

01:22:27   or certainly less curvy than they were before.

01:22:30   None of this is bad. It's just different.

01:22:33   The screen is very, very, very nice. It is very nice.

01:22:38   And it is super trippy for me to see the HDR stuff happening, because I'm used to seeing that on a phone

01:22:46   when suddenly the rest of the screen seems to get dim and just the video you're looking at gets super bright.

01:22:52   I don't have a problem with it, especially since I'm used to it on the phone, but it is very trippy to see on my Mac.

01:22:59   120Hz, I wouldn't say I notice it that often, but one place I notice it every time, and it makes me smile every time,

01:23:08   and this is the equivalent of me saying that the animations like zooming in and out of an app on my phone,

01:23:17   the equivalent to that on this computer is spaces, going between spaces.

01:23:21   So I may, as we've talked many times, a devout Spaces user. This is like virtual desktops.

01:23:25   And as I slide laterally back and forth between spaces, it is buttery smooth, and it makes me very happy.

01:23:31   Other than that, I can't say I've really noticed a lot where 120Hz seems obvious,

01:23:36   and honestly, my eye is not stupendous for this, but there are definitely times where I'm like,

01:23:42   "Oh, that is very smooth, and it makes me very happy."

01:23:45   I have much more to say, but Marco, do you want to jump in on this particular point, or are you good for something?

01:23:50   On the 120Hz?

01:23:51   Yes.

01:23:52   Interesting. I mean, so just to set the stage here, I've been looking at these screens a lot over the last week,

01:23:57   because what happened, I know I breezed over this a little bit earlier,

01:24:01   but what happened is I decided to go ahead with the plan to replace my desktop with a high-powered laptop,

01:24:06   and it became a 16-inch, but we'll get to that later.

01:24:09   Oh, oh, hey now.

01:24:12   So I spent most of the last week setting up two of these right next to each other on my desk.

01:24:17   So I still had the Mac Mini as my main computer, like connected to the big XDR,

01:24:22   and then I had off to my right the MacBook Air that I was transferring some data from.

01:24:27   Migration Assistant failed, which has happened to a lot of people with the MacBook Air,

01:24:31   and there's occasionally some way to dive into something or other and try to fix it with system integrity protection

01:24:36   and all this other stuff, but I decided I wanted to do that.

01:24:39   So I'm setting up both as new,

01:24:42   and because I have operated for so long as a right mouse left trackpad user,

01:24:50   my left hand can use a trackpad just fine.

01:24:53   And so I spent most of the last week with one laptop on the left hand,

01:24:57   one laptop on the right hand, trying to do stuff in parallel as much as possible,

01:25:01   like install this, install that, click here, click there,

01:25:04   like doing it on both laptops so I could set them up together, which was kind of fun.

01:25:10   My desk looked ridiculous, like just covered in computers, it was glorious,

01:25:14   but all this back to the point you actually asked.

01:25:17   So I've looked at these screens a lot in the last week,

01:25:20   and when I go back to my poor, poor 60 hertz XDR, I literally don't notice.

01:25:29   I don't know what it is. Maybe it's that I'm just not seeing a lot of apps that use it,

01:25:33   because now that you say Safari doesn't use 120 hertz yet, that's a pretty big thing.

01:25:37   Like I've been looking at a lot of Safari recently, like going to websites of apps that I have to download,

01:25:41   and trying to find the download link that they've buried, God knows where.

01:25:44   There's a lot of scrolling and hitting command F download and stuff like that.

01:25:47   So anyway, I honestly am not noticing 120 hertz as much as I thought I would,

01:25:52   which is, in my opinion, a blessing, because I still have my giant monitor

01:25:58   that I have no intention of replacing anytime soon,

01:26:00   nor is there anything to replace it with that would support 120 hertz at anywhere near this size and resolution.

01:26:05   So this is going to be one of those things where I'm just going to be blissfully happy

01:26:09   that I don't seem to notice it much on the Mac, and that I can be happy using it without that on my desktop.

01:26:16   Yeah, I mean, I think so far I mostly agree with you that it's not terribly noticeable,

01:26:22   but I wonder once Safari starts supporting it, if maybe my perspective will change.

01:26:27   Moving right along, MagSafe. Wait, actually, hold on a second.

01:26:31   You were setting up both the computers, so you're going to use the 16 as a desktop replacement

01:26:35   and the 14 as a runaround computer?

01:26:37   Yes, I'm on the 16 right now, talking to you, as my desktop laptop.

01:26:41   And the 14 is my around-the-house computer.

01:26:44   So what 16 build did you get?

01:26:46   The one that was in stock.

01:26:48   Which was, what, a max/max with 2 terabytes and 64 gigs?

01:26:53   No, the 16 came with 4, so it's max everything, right?

01:26:55   Yeah, it's 4 terabytes, 64 gigs, and the max CPU.

01:26:59   You could get 8 terabytes for like $11 billion, I thought.

01:27:01   Not in store, you can't.

01:27:03   Oh, right, right, yeah, okay, fair enough.

01:27:05   That's a lot of machine, don't get me wrong. That is a lot of machine.

01:27:08   And so you went and picked it up, you reserved it, right, and picked it up in store?

01:27:11   Yeah, I did, because I was going to the mainland for some grocery shopping and stuff last Thursday,

01:27:17   and so literally I edited the show that morning, and while Logic was bouncing,

01:27:23   I went and reserved one at the nearby Apple store, and then I bounced it, got in the shower,

01:27:28   got in a boat, got in a car, did the whole cars, trucks, boats, trains, whatever it was,

01:27:34   to get there, and got my laptops.

01:27:39   It feels really extravagant to have bought two at the same time, but I am very happy I did,

01:27:46   because, as I mentioned earlier, I really did consider only having the desktop laptop as a new one,

01:27:55   and keeping my M1 Air as my Air on the House one, and truthfully, that would be fine for almost all conditions,

01:28:01   except I do intend to do some pretty heavy video capture stuff on it, where there's going to be three different cameras,

01:28:08   three different computers being captured, many streams coming in, a lot of throughput,

01:28:12   and so I figure having a beefier system that has more GPU power and more I/O, like Thunderbolt throughput,

01:28:19   I thought would be beneficial to that, plus, not to mention, more disk space and more RAM,

01:28:24   which would also be a very big deal at some point.

01:28:27   So, I decided, let me actually upgrade all of them, but honestly, the desktop laptop,

01:28:34   I'm 100% confident that was the right move, because 64 gigs of RAM is awesome.

01:28:39   It's so good to be back to this. I think that's what my iMac Pro had for the years I used that.

01:28:45   So, to go from 64 for a few years to 16, and now back to 64, I feel it.

01:28:52   I feel that difference a lot, bouncing between apps.

01:28:55   I know there was a YouTube video that says they couldn't tell. I can tell.

01:28:58   And with my workload, I have a lot of very RAM hungry apps.

01:29:01   Sometimes I'm running more than one at a time, or switching between very RAM hungry apps.

01:29:05   Now, when I switch between Xcode and Logic, it doesn't bring everything to a crawl for a few seconds.

01:29:11   It's really nice. It might even be able to run SwiftUI.

01:29:16   I want to talk about that YouTube video, by the way, because a lot of people have asked about that.

01:29:20   It just did a bad job testing something that uses a lot of memory.

01:29:24   There's no magic in these machines. We talked about this before.

01:29:26   There is nothing particularly magical about the ARM-based Macs that makes them magically not need more RAM.

01:29:33   Like I mentioned when we first talked about this months ago,

01:29:36   if anything, it's potentially possible for the code size of Intel binaries to be smaller,

01:29:41   because Intel CPUs have variable-sized instructions, whereas ARM, being RISC CPUs,

01:29:47   have instructions that are all the same size.

01:29:49   So, in theory, the code portion of your applications and memory could take up more room on ARM.

01:29:53   Now, granted, you don't have to deal with 32 and 64, but that's also not true in Intel anymore.

01:29:57   Anyway, the whole point is with the RAM thing, if you test an application that doesn't particularly stress the memory system,

01:30:04   like, oh, maybe it uses more than 16, but not much more,

01:30:07   yeah, you probably won't notice that much of a difference.

01:30:09   But if you use an application that really requires like 128 gigs of RAM,

01:30:16   and you start swapping, which means not just pushing things into virtual memory or how much swap is used,

01:30:21   but swapping means the program is constantly putting things into the swap file on "disk" and taking them out,

01:30:27   and then putting them in and taking them out. That's swapping. That's an activity. It's a verb.

01:30:31   It is not a measurement of how much swap space is used. That's not relevant.

01:30:35   So, if you see some YouTube video that says, oh, we tried a 16-gig machine and a 32 one,

01:30:40   and there was like a two-second difference between them.

01:30:42   They're just doing a bad test that's not stressing the memory.

01:30:44   Now, if that's the thing you want to do, then yeah, you don't need more memory,

01:30:47   because the thing you want to do doesn't require more memory.

01:30:49   But some people do things that really does require more memory.

01:30:51   One of the ones from the Apple keynote that they mentioned,

01:30:53   I think it was brought up on the upgrade interview with the guys from Apple,

01:30:57   that one of the files they opened in the intro video for this,

01:31:01   you can't even open that file on the machine without like 64 gigs of RAM or whatever,

01:31:06   because this is a VRAM thing, because basically it's a unified memory,

01:31:09   and you can't buy a video card with 64 gigs of VRAM on a laptop.

01:31:12   Therefore, the only way to ever open this file on a laptop is to have a laptop with "64 gigs of VRAM"

01:31:18   because it's unified RAM and it gets successful by the GPU.

01:31:21   But anyway, sometimes people really, really do need more RAM,

01:31:25   and then you will notice a difference.

01:31:26   Not just, oh, I couldn't open the file, but you will actively be swapping,

01:31:29   and you can see that activity if you look at the VM stat or whatever the equivalent tools are on Mac OS.

01:31:35   So, be aware of what your use case is.

01:31:38   Do you need more RAM?

01:31:40   And that memory pressure thing of being like, oh, it's yellow, red, or whatever,

01:31:43   maybe that's not the best thing.

01:31:45   What you want to tell is like, hey, if I do this, if I do the activity that I want to do on a machine with more RAM,

01:31:52   how much faster is it?

01:31:53   And that's what they measured, but the things they measured,

01:31:55   those tasks obviously didn't need more RAM, and apparently Marco does.

01:31:58   Yeah, it's great.

01:32:00   The only thing is there's actually a few people in my family and friends who need a computer,

01:32:04   so I actually might give away the air to one of them.

01:32:07   But I really love that MacBook Air, the M1 MacBook Air.

01:32:11   I absolutely love that computer, and I'm kind of sad to have replaced it,

01:32:18   like in the sense that this new 14-inch MacBook Pro is really nice,

01:32:22   but it doesn't give me that love feeling that the M1 MacBook Air does.

01:32:27   And maybe that's because the M1 MacBook Air is that fun, like weird, like orangey-pinkish color,

01:32:32   and the MacBook Pro only comes in boring gray.

01:32:35   By the way, so Tiff got her 16-inch in as well,

01:32:40   the stake through Casey's heart in the delivery timing,

01:32:44   and so we set that up as well, and she has space gray, and I have silver.

01:32:49   They did not make a space gray MagSafe plug or MagSafe cord, and it looks weird.

01:32:57   Oh, come on, it's not that bad.

01:32:59   We talked about this last week.

01:33:00   We did talk about this last week.

01:33:01   I know, but now I've actually seen them in person.

01:33:03   The MagSafe looks perfect with the silver metal, and the MagSafe does not look right.

01:33:09   It looks like it's the wrong cable.

01:33:12   It looks like you borrowed someone else's cable when you see it against the space gray.

01:33:16   It looks wrong.

01:33:17   Both the color of the metal and the color of the cord are both noticeably too light for the space gray laptop,

01:33:24   and I would also go as far as to say, having seen both now in my house,

01:33:29   I think silver looks better because not only does MagSafe look better, far and away better, I think, with silver,

01:33:37   but now that they've moved to a higher contrast design,

01:33:40   like now that the keyboard tray kind of area is black, is all black,

01:33:45   you have the nice black rectangle of that plus the black rectangle of the screen

01:33:50   against the metal backdrop of the surrounding material,

01:33:53   I think the higher contrast of the silver model looks nicer overall compared to the space gray,

01:34:00   which I think looks a little bit old, a little bit dated, and is lower contrast with the hardware,

01:34:06   and the MagSafe looks wrong.

01:34:08   I mean, I'm obviously biased because I did order a space gray.

01:34:12   I don't think anything you've said is necessarily wrong.

01:34:15   I just don't find it nearly as bothersome as you seem to.

01:34:18   And yeah, I guess the MagSafe cable does look a little bit off,

01:34:21   but it's not something that I notice on a day-to-day basis.

01:34:24   Now, maybe you do or others would, but to me it's not that noticeable.

01:34:28   But that is a perfect segue to talk about MagSafe, which I wanted to talk about next.

01:34:31   Something I noticed about it is that when you--I don't know how to describe this--

01:34:35   like when you peel it in order to remove it, so you're like putting your finger under it and peeling it upwards.

01:34:41   You're talking about the sandwich closing for us again, aren't you?

01:34:44   Yeah, I guess so.

01:34:45   This is more sandwich opening for us, really.

01:34:47   Yeah, I guess one way or another,

01:34:49   when you're doing the sandwich opening or closing for us,

01:34:52   it doesn't take that much to get it to pop. However--

01:34:55   No, no, you have the opposite.

01:34:57   The sandwich closing for us is the one where it's hard,

01:34:59   where you're pulling straight in the line of the cord.

01:35:02   Okay, that's what I was going to say.

01:35:04   I don't care what you guys want to call them.

01:35:06   Peeling is easy. Pulling is hard.

01:35:08   That's what it boils down to.

01:35:10   But this is the same as it's always been on MagSafe forever.

01:35:12   It's much stronger now, though.

01:35:14   I see, that's what I was going to say.

01:35:15   I think it's very strong.

01:35:17   To pull straight out from the cable, which I know I'm not supposed to do,

01:35:19   I'm just saying it to illustrate a point,

01:35:21   to pull directly out by the cable is very, very difficult.

01:35:25   In fact, the computer wants to move much before the cable wants to get in.

01:35:29   I think there's a good reason for that, too.

01:35:31   So the big change with this MagSafe is it's just much narrower.

01:35:35   It's like the size of a USB-C port, right?

01:35:37   Whereas before I was tall--

01:35:39   I wouldn't say that.

01:35:40   It's like one and a half to two times the size of a USB-C port.

01:35:43   Go get MagSafe 1.

01:35:44   I don't know if you remember how tall MagSafe 1 was.

01:35:46   I think MagSafe 1 was taller than USB-A, wasn't it?

01:35:49   Oh, you're talking about tall. I'm sorry.

01:35:51   Right. So with the force that you're talking about,

01:35:54   the easy one where you yank upwards or downwards,

01:35:57   well, I guess just upwards and downwards is what I'm talking about.

01:36:00   You have to make that sturdy enough that it doesn't come off all the time.

01:36:05   This is the complaint people have with all the MagSafe,

01:36:07   if you have it on your bed and your covers hit the thing upwards

01:36:10   and it comes off.

01:36:11   So you have to make that sturdy.

01:36:13   But the problem is the magnets have this little skinny area

01:36:17   to oppose that force, right?

01:36:19   If you imagine that MagSafe was six inches tall,

01:36:22   that's a pretty big lever.

01:36:23   If you put a pretty weak magnet on top and a pretty weak magnet on bottom

01:36:26   and then try to tilt that, the lever made by those distant points

01:36:30   and the pivot point represented by the cord--

01:36:35   is this making sense to you?

01:36:36   There's a physics reason that the skinnier you make the plug,

01:36:40   the more powerful you have to make the magnets

01:36:42   to maintain a minimum amount of up-down sturdiness, right?

01:36:46   So I feel like to make that up-down yanking sturdiness

01:36:50   the amount that you want it to be,

01:36:52   you have to use such strong magnets that when you try to directly oppose them

01:36:56   by pulling directly out of the laptop,

01:36:58   it's way harder than it used to be because the thing got skinnier.

01:37:01   That's my theory.

01:37:02   That makes sense.

01:37:03   I would even say, like, I think MagSafe is now a misnomer.

01:37:07   And I think it was also a misnomer when they brought it to the phone.

01:37:09   I think they used the name because it was an old name

01:37:11   that people liked, but the phone charging puck,

01:37:15   nothing about that is necessarily safe.

01:37:18   I think the use of the word safe doesn't really make a lot of sense there.

01:37:22   I don't think MagSafe charging on the phone is safer than cable charging.

01:37:28   It's kind of the same as if you walk by your phone

01:37:31   and you trip across the cord,

01:37:32   you won't yank your phone off the counter anymore,

01:37:34   that type of thing.

01:37:35   But you probably will.

01:37:36   But anyway, so with this, I think the original safety benefit of MagSafe,

01:37:43   of tripping over the cord, not pulling your laptop off,

01:37:45   back then MagSafe was easier to pull off and laptops were heavier.

01:37:50   And now, I mean, I could easily, here,

01:37:54   I could easily pull this across the desk by the MagSafe cable.

01:37:57   I think you could always drag a laptop by MagSafe,

01:38:00   but the whole point is when someone trips over it,

01:38:02   they never or almost never pull at exactly the right angle.

01:38:06   If you're off access by even a little bit, it disconnects with any of the MagSafes.

01:38:11   I'm going to test this.

01:38:12   I'm going to grab my finger here.

01:38:14   All right, yeah, so if you kick it, it does pop off,

01:38:16   but I think it's less safe than ever, if that makes sense.

01:38:20   I think it might be more safe than ever because the thing is so skinny

01:38:25   and because your yanking force is always going to be a little bit down

01:38:29   unless the cord, because who plugs in their laptop

01:38:31   where the cord goes straight from the laptop at the same level to the keyboard.

01:38:35   It's probably always going to go down, and because the thing is so skinny,

01:38:38   I don't know, I'm sure Apple has done these tests,

01:38:40   but the bottom line is they were constrained by both the width of the laptop

01:38:44   and the width of their future laptop plans,

01:38:46   like the M2 MacBook Air that's going to be super skinny

01:38:48   and will probably have this port on it.

01:38:49   They had to make it super thin,

01:38:51   and that means that it's always going to be really easy to yank

01:38:54   even slightly upward or slightly downwards.

01:38:57   There's only so, yeah, unless they use an electromagnet,

01:39:00   like just using permanent rare earth magnets in that small a space,

01:39:05   they're probably near the limit of how mag,

01:39:08   well, maybe not near the limit because they have pretty powerful magnets,

01:39:10   but they're probably near the practical limit

01:39:12   for how powerful they can make those magnets,

01:39:14   and still, I think, any kind of slightly upward or downward motion

01:39:17   has got to get that thing disconnected.

01:39:19   Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

01:39:20   I think it is, when they introduced MagSafe for the phone,

01:39:24   I think they should have given it a new name

01:39:27   and then used that same name for this.

01:39:29   Anyway.

01:39:30   In any case, I do like having MagSafe back quite a lot,

01:39:34   although it is a bit of a double-edged sword

01:39:36   in that I've now sprinkled like USB-C power connectors around my house,

01:39:41   and not that I can't use them,

01:39:43   but now I kind of want to have MagSafe everywhere,

01:39:45   except that my iPad doesn't take MagSafe,

01:39:49   so it's like, I don't know what I'm going to do about this,

01:39:52   and one example of this is I have one of them

01:39:54   kind of like barfing out of my couch, if you will,

01:39:57   and generally speaking, I would want to be able to have the flexibility of USB-C

01:40:03   so I could plug in either my iPad or my computer.

01:40:06   However, that is like prime candidate for MagSafe,

01:40:10   because if there's ever a time that something's going to get yanked,

01:40:12   it's in the living room, especially with the kids running around.

01:40:14   So I don't know what I'm going to do, but if this is the problem I have,

01:40:17   I will take this over not even having the option of MagSafe, so I'm still happy.

01:40:21   The braided cable, or whatever this is,

01:40:23   I've only had it for a couple of days, but so far I love it.

01:40:26   It is the right amount of flexible and the right amount of sturdy or stiff.

01:40:32   I'm really, really digging this,

01:40:34   and now I kind of want to have all my Lightning cables made out of this,

01:40:37   which I think there is a braided Lightning cable or something like that,

01:40:40   but nevertheless, I'm really digging that.

01:40:42   That's what I talked about when I got my Mac Pro.

01:40:44   Remember, I wanted all my cables to be black and braided?

01:40:46   Yeah, they're much nicer.

01:40:48   And I will probably, I suspect, pick up one or two more of these USB-C to MagSafe ends,

01:40:52   even at $50, which is I think what they cost,

01:40:55   but I kind of want to have one or two stationary in the house,

01:41:00   and then probably one in my laptop bag for when I travel,

01:41:03   so I suspect I'll be buying at least one more of them.

01:41:06   Battery life, similar to my expectation setting from earlier,

01:41:09   my expectations were that the battery lasts forever

01:41:13   and you can never even get it below 100%.

01:41:15   That is not true. You can get it below 100%.

01:41:18   I haven't done extensive testing with this,

01:41:20   but it definitely seems like this is a multi-hour battery,

01:41:25   which I know sounds preposterous,

01:41:27   but as much as I do love my Intel MacBook Pro,

01:41:29   I could only realistically get two to three hours

01:41:32   when I'm doing reasonably heavy development work,

01:41:35   and I've only done a little of that development work on this computer,

01:41:39   and we'll talk about that in a second,

01:41:40   but it definitely seems like I'm going to get considerably more battery life

01:41:43   than my Intel MacBook Pro,

01:41:45   which is very welcome and I'm very excited about it.

01:41:48   And even if this was heavier than my Intel MacBook Pro,

01:41:51   I would absolutely make that trade-off.

01:41:53   Give me a heavier computer and give me more battery life, absolutely.

01:41:57   The keyboard does feel different.

01:42:00   I don't know if it's just because it's a fresher keyboard.

01:42:02   I don't know what it is about it,

01:42:03   and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to describe this,

01:42:07   and I just don't have the words for it,

01:42:09   but it feels, I think, almost ever so slightly mushier,

01:42:14   which is a negative thing, but in a good way,

01:42:17   which I understand the words that are coming out of my mouth make no sense,

01:42:19   and I'm sorry, but something about it is it feels a little bit nicer,

01:42:25   and I don't -- I'm going to have to see if I can follow up in a week or two

01:42:30   and put words to it, but it's not night and day different by any means,

01:42:34   but I definitely like it, and it definitely feels really good.

01:42:37   Some people were saying that it might have had more travel.

01:42:39   That seems like something you can measure,

01:42:40   especially if Marco's still got his old, crappy 16-inch around.

01:42:43   Yeah, I do.

01:42:44   I'm actually keeping -- so the 16-inch was Tiff's computer

01:42:47   until this new 16 came in for her,

01:42:49   and I'm actually going to -- I'm planning on keeping the 16 Intel for a while

01:42:53   as my last Intel test machine,

01:42:56   because it's a laptop, so it's self-contained,

01:42:58   has its own screen and everything,

01:42:59   so that's nice for test machine purposes,

01:43:01   and I feel like, again, as a -- now I'm a Mac developer for multiple products.

01:43:07   Now I have Forecast and Quitter, I guess,

01:43:11   but mainly for Forecast for Intel,

01:43:13   so I do have occasional needs for Mac test machines,

01:43:17   and so I figure I'll keep this Intel one around for a while.

01:43:21   Did you have any thoughts about the keyboard, Marco, before I move on?

01:43:24   I don't think so, except the -- just like the change to black

01:43:27   for the background tray of the keyboard,

01:43:30   it does make the keys harder to spot.

01:43:33   Like, functionally, it does not work as well as a keyboard visual thing.

01:43:37   However, I find it to be a very minor thing,

01:43:40   and so I don't care really about that.

01:43:43   I do love the new full-height Touch ID key

01:43:46   and the new full-height function keys.

01:43:48   They're really nice.

01:43:49   Touch ID also just seems faster.

01:43:51   I don't know why, but it seems way faster on this than the Intel's.

01:43:54   And finally, the different look of the keyboard,

01:43:58   mostly in regards to the black background thing,

01:44:00   are one difference that instantly makes the previous outgoing 16-inch model

01:44:06   look old by comparison.

01:44:08   Like, as I've been using the 16-inch to transfer TIFF stuff over

01:44:13   in the last couple days to her new computer,

01:44:15   the keyboard background being silver and the Touch bar

01:44:20   both make it look like a dinosaur by comparison.

01:44:24   Like, you wouldn't think it would be such a big difference

01:44:27   because, like, the new machines don't look that different from the old machines,

01:44:30   but in those ways they do, and that I noticed instantly.

01:44:34   Also, good riddance to the Touch bar.

01:44:36   My God does that thing suck.

01:44:38   You know, I do miss it.

01:44:40   I do miss it for tap backs and messages, but that is literally the only time.

01:44:43   I want to go back to the Touch ID briefly.

01:44:45   I couldn't tell you if it's faster or not, but I will say,

01:44:48   and this sounds kind of bananas, but it really has made a huge difference to me,

01:44:53   having a little bit of ridge in it, or maybe it's actually, like, not a depression.

01:44:58   Is that the word I'm looking for? A little cavy area.

01:45:01   It's inset slightly.

01:45:04   On the Touch ID button specifically, you mean?

01:45:06   Yes, exactly.

01:45:07   I really like having that so that I can place my finger appropriately on the button

01:45:11   because the Intel one, it's just like a completely blank key cap,

01:45:16   and so it feels different than the other key caps,

01:45:19   but it's still just one big flat area,

01:45:22   and having the circle in there helps me center my finger appropriately,

01:45:25   and I think it makes it more accurate.

01:45:27   The Intel one, it looks like they forgot to design it,

01:45:30   or like the CSS failed to load something.

01:45:32   It's supposed to look like it's part of the touch bar.

01:45:34   That's why it's featureless, because the touch bar is featureless

01:45:37   when it's not turned on, and so to make the same reason

01:45:40   the stupid escape key doesn't exist in the first ones, right?

01:45:43   It was just part of the screen, but the Touch ID is supposed to just look like more touch bars,

01:45:46   so no features.

01:45:47   Yeah.

01:45:48   Yeah.

01:45:49   The speakers on this are really good for a laptop, like, really, really good,

01:45:53   surprisingly good, and I never thought the Intel ones were particularly bad,

01:45:58   but these are really, really good, and you get way more bass out of these than you would expect.

01:46:03   Now, it's not going to replace a regular sound system by any stretch,

01:46:06   but in a pinch, I think it's definitely sufficient, if not more than sufficient,

01:46:11   for any reasonable use, and I was very impressed by them.

01:46:15   The SD card reader, I think you ran into something similar to this, Marco,

01:46:19   so I was using the SD card reader on the device to go through my photos

01:46:23   the way I like to do it, which I know you guys hate,

01:46:26   and look at each file on this SD card and decide what I want to keep

01:46:30   and what I want to delete before I import them into photos.

01:46:33   Yes, I understand that's bananas, but it's the way I like to do it.

01:46:35   Leave me alone.

01:46:36   And so I was trying to do all this in Finder, and I was getting constant beach balls,

01:46:40   like, all the time.

01:46:42   I was rebooting, I was quitting Finder constantly.

01:46:44   I don't know if it was a fluke.

01:46:46   I only tried it the one time, so I don't know if it was bad internet weather,

01:46:51   except not the internet, bad computing weather.

01:46:53   I don't know what was going on, but Marco, you said you had something with, like,

01:46:56   external drives or something like that, so maybe this is related?

01:47:00   I don't know, but it was very weird and very frustrating.

01:47:03   Yeah, I've had -- I'm currently tracking some issues,

01:47:06   and I even end up filing a bug report with Apple with syst diagnosis and everything.

01:47:10   The generic, like, $20 USB enclosure for SSDs that I use,

01:47:15   like, regular 2.5-inch SATA enclosure, that seems to have problems with these new Macs.

01:47:22   Now, I was trying to isolate -- it might not be a problem with the new Macs specifically.

01:47:26   It might be a problem with Monterrey.

01:47:30   Once I upgraded my MacBook Air to Monterrey, it has the same problem,

01:47:34   or a similar one, whereas the Mac Mini that has not been upgraded,

01:47:39   that's still running Big Sur, but is also M1, does not have this problem.

01:47:43   So it seems to be maybe a problem with, you know, M1 series chips and Big Sur combined,

01:47:51   or maybe it's a problem with all of Big Sur, I don't know.

01:47:54   You mean Monterrey?

01:47:55   Yeah, sorry, Monterrey, God. California is too many places.

01:47:58   Anyway, it's a big state.

01:48:00   Big state.

01:48:01   Yeah, so anyway, there's something going on with these machines/Monterrey and USB 3 storage devices.

01:48:12   If you use a cable that is USB-C but does not transmit USB 3 speeds,

01:48:18   like conveniently, Apple's charging cable from all of their most recent laptops, except these.

01:48:22   Look, if you have an Apple USB-C to C 2-meter charging cable

01:48:26   that comes with pretty much every Apple laptop made between 2016 and right before these came out,

01:48:32   that cable is USB 2.0 data speeds, but has USB-C connectors on both ends.

01:48:37   If I connect the drive enclosure with that, it does work without any problems.

01:48:42   It's slow as crap, and you realize quite how good USB 3 is compared to USB 2,

01:48:47   but it does work.

01:48:49   So there's something up with that.

01:48:51   I assume, I hope, because this seems to have come on with Monterrey

01:48:56   and also seems to apply to the old M1s, but they didn't have this problem before this,

01:49:00   I would assume this is a software problem, not a hardware problem.

01:49:04   And so hopefully we'll see a Monterrey update sometime very soon

01:49:08   that fixes USB device connectivity or whatever.

01:49:11   It seems to not apply to USB 2.0 devices or to anything that is like Thunderbolt or otherwise not USB.

01:49:19   Yeah, it was very, very wonky, and I did not enjoy it by any means,

01:49:23   but I agree that it seems to me like it would be a software thing, but who really knows?

01:49:28   Speed. So again, I was sold by me to me a bill of goods that this thing would load everything instantly always.

01:49:36   And I think that's true with asterisks.

01:49:39   With certain things, it definitely feels like it's churning on something or trying to do something.

01:49:45   I mentioned, I think, briefly earlier that when I installed Xcode via the App Store,

01:49:50   which maybe that was my first problem, but one way or another, it took literally like an hour or something like that.

01:49:55   I didn't measure it, but it felt like a long, long time.

01:49:59   However, in starting Xcode once it's been installed, it does take a few seconds.

01:50:05   Like you see the Xcode icon bounce a couple of times, but one thing that blew my freaking mind was every time I opened the simulator.

01:50:14   Like from a cold start, the simulator has been fully quit.

01:50:18   There are no simulator windows open. It is not actively running.

01:50:22   Going from that to the simulator displaying my app is preposterously fast, hilariously preposterously ridiculously fast.

01:50:32   And it is so cool and it makes me so happy.

01:50:36   Now granted, I don't cold start simulator that often, but even just getting the simulator to come up with the latest version of my app,

01:50:44   that is also preposterously fast and makes me extremely happy.

01:50:48   I've rebooted a bunch of times, including about 15 times when I installed Audio Hijack.

01:50:53   That also happens very quickly, which I like.

01:50:56   And something that everyone else has talked about for six months or a year now,

01:51:00   which I am just now experiencing for the first time, when you go ahead and switch displays, it is instant.

01:51:07   And after 30 years of waiting for flash, flash, flash, black, not black, black again, not black, black again, oh there it is.

01:51:15   It is amazing. It is so cool that this happens so quickly and it makes me extremely happy.

01:51:21   Yeah, I know that somebody must have put a ton of work into like the display driving whatever, whatever does that.

01:51:28   It is so awesome. And this applies to the M1s as well.

01:51:32   As you said, like plugging in and disconnecting monitors or opening and closing the screen lid,

01:51:37   to have things just instantly pop into the new place and the new configuration is so cool.

01:51:44   And again, it is one of those things like we have been trained for decades into thinking I guess that can't happen.

01:51:50   I guess it is too complicated to have that.

01:51:53   Like we never even thought to expect better things in this area.

01:51:56   And when you are given better things, all of a sudden in an area you didn't even think you could get them, it is really delightful.

01:52:02   And that is one of the great things about the M1 series computers.

01:52:05   Yup, completely agree.

01:52:07   A couple of funny things that I think were more to do with having a brand new computer than anything else.

01:52:12   I lost all of my group chat images in messages.

01:52:16   So if you recall, for group iMessages, you can set like a name that is shared across all the participants

01:52:23   and an icon that is shared across all the participants.

01:52:26   And the names seem to have persisted with the icons because in a few cases I set custom icons and they have disappeared which is kind of annoying.

01:52:32   Also I am constantly getting barraged with like, "Oh, Casey List has a new photo for you."

01:52:38   "Oh, Marco Arment has a new photo for you."

01:52:40   Like incessantly and I don't really know what that is about.

01:52:42   Yeah, I have been getting barraged with that since they introduced that feature.

01:52:45   Just yesterday, it is like a routine matter of course, I just look at the messages window and it says,

01:52:50   "Do you want to update the photo of this contact?" I am like, "For the 8,000th time, no."

01:52:54   I think it is because you can set a preference that says, "Do you want to offer your photo to other people that you message with?"

01:53:01   So that they can use it.

01:53:03   If you set that, I think you are kind of at the mercy, like on the receiving end, you are at the mercy of other people who may be setting up a new account on a computer or something.

01:53:11   Or whatever makes the offer come to you.

01:53:14   You have no control over whether you will receive the offer or not.

01:53:17   And it does not apparently remember that you had rejected the offer from this person.

01:53:20   It is just that, "Oh, this person came online and their computer wants to offer it."

01:53:24   So you get the pleasure of hitting that little X and rejecting it again.

01:53:27   Another thing that I thought was quite funny was that I think I was talking with Mike Hurley.

01:53:33   And he replied to an image that he had sent a few days ago before this computer was in my hands.

01:53:39   And the way messages rendered that was just a little teeny black box.

01:53:43   Because, I mean, legitimately, I do not have messages in the cloud turned on.

01:53:47   And so it legitimately had no way of knowing what that image was he was replying to.

01:53:51   Because it happened long before my user had ever signed into this computer.

01:53:54   But I felt like it was a failure mode that was a little ridiculous.

01:53:58   You know, it reminded me of the old Netscape image broken icon.

01:54:01   But it was just a black box.

01:54:02   And I was supposed to just divine what was being replied to.

01:54:05   Why don't you have messages in the cloud turned on?

01:54:07   Because early on it was terrible.

01:54:09   It is still terrible.

01:54:10   Or so I remember.

01:54:11   Some slack that I think we're all in was just talking about this.

01:54:14   And somebody else said it's not terrible anymore.

01:54:16   So I probably should turn it on.

01:54:17   I mean, it's less bad than it was.

01:54:18   But it's still pretty terrible.

01:54:20   But a slightly inconsistent, terrible, laggy, slow syncing mechanism that constantly re-scrolls you to a new bit and then it's in the scroll back is better than nothing at all.

01:54:29   Because with nothing at all, it's like, well, some messages are on some device and some messages are on other devices.

01:54:33   Well, see, that's the thing.

01:54:34   It's been pretty rock solid for me without messages in the cloud.

01:54:37   Oh, yeah, doesn't messages in the cloud give Apple your encryption key or something like that?

01:54:42   That was the other thing.

01:54:43   Yeah, it's totally less secure.

01:54:44   But I was like, that's a valid answer.

01:54:45   It's like I didn't want to turn on messages in the cloud because I don't want Apple seeing my messages.

01:54:48   But, you know, that's not what you said.

01:54:50   So I don't know if you have secret messages.

01:54:52   Well, but that is a small part of it.

01:54:54   It was mostly because I heard it was garbage.

01:54:55   And then also because it's marginally less secure.

01:54:58   It is better than it was.

01:54:59   But like, boy, I mean, maybe it's just on Mac messages.

01:55:01   Like, it's kind of like you do have the button that you can do sync now, which is great.

01:55:06   But if you don't do that and you're like scrolling through a scroll back to look at something, expect that at any point the program will decide,

01:55:13   I've done something related to sync and now I've decided your scroll back position is going to be offset by a few thousand pixels. Enjoy.

01:55:19   And then you'll scroll back and find where you were and start reading again.

01:55:21   And then it will just move back again.

01:55:22   That's true.

01:55:24   So for grins and giggles, I decided to think about what would I do if I wanted to keep this as my primary machine, which is I think what I want to do.

01:55:35   And I want to have a monitor for it, which I don't have.

01:55:38   So I tried using my OG, like literally from the Kickstarter, Luna Display, which thankfully I had gotten when my adorable was my was my run around computer.

01:55:50   So it was USB-C. The Luna Display is very good.

01:55:53   I think they may have sponsored once or twice in the past.

01:55:55   I don't remember.

01:55:56   It is very, very good.

01:55:57   However, even over Ethernet, powering the 5K over the Luna Display is not exactly delightful because there's so many compression artifacts.

01:56:07   And it's like I tried using Xcode and every time I scroll the Xcode window, like all the text gets garbly and gross looking and then you wait a beat and then it all comes back in nice and crisp because it stopped moving.

01:56:18   It's not great.

01:56:19   You're asking a lot of that.

01:56:21   Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

01:56:23   Absolutely. Without a shadow of a doubt.

01:56:25   I mean, the Luna Display, I think, was mostly meant for running on an iPad.

01:56:29   Right. So what sidecar is now?

01:56:31   And it wasn't, I don't think, really designed to handle this.

01:56:34   And it wouldn't surprise me if my hardware is old and there's probably new hardware now.

01:56:38   But one way or another, it did work.

01:56:40   Don't get me wrong, it absolutely worked, but it was not super delightful.

01:56:43   So I wish target display mode was a thing, but it is not.

01:56:47   So I don't think we're going to have time today, but I would like very much to whine about the piss poor state of Apple monitors because I have ordered an LG 5K from Apple that might deliver this year because I don't know what else to do.

01:57:02   Oh, no.

01:57:03   I don't know what else to do.

01:57:05   Here's what you do.

01:57:06   You swallow your pride. You order the XDR and you never tell anybody.

01:57:10   Oh, my God. I don't think I can handle it. I don't think I can.

01:57:12   It's not a good time to buy an XDR. I endorse the 5K plan, assuming you can resell it at some point in the future because honestly, we don't know what the schedule is for Apple ever releasing anything better.

01:57:22   But I wouldn't buy an XDR now.

01:57:24   See? Thank you, Jon. I agree.

01:57:26   I mean, if I was spending your money, I would have had an XDR yesterday, but I'm spending my money, which is why I don't have an XDR.

01:57:33   By the way, have I mentioned ATP.fm/store? Thank you very much.

01:57:36   And then finally, the only iOS on Mac OS Catalyst app that I've installed is indeed Overcast because I was doing my normal thing where I put my iPhone in like a 12 South dock or whatever it is I have on my desk, and I was starting to play, I think it was Upgrade actually, the aforementioned episode of Upgrade, and I started playing.

01:57:56   Wait. Wait a second. I don't have to do this. I can just run it on my Mac.

01:58:02   I can have a mediocre experience scrolling the iPad app on my Mac.

01:58:05   That's exactly right. And actually, well, that's not even fair. It was a very nice experience and it all worked really well until I tried to hit a media key on the keyboard and it was like, "What? Nope. That doesn't work. Play Pause? I don't know what that is."

01:58:18   And that was a bit of a bummer. So I got to talk to the developer and see if I can convince him or her to add media key support because that would be super awesome.

01:58:26   You mean convince them to do literally anything to the app to make it aware that it's running on a Mac?

01:58:31   That's exactly right.

01:58:32   I don't think I have access to those keys in that environment. Maybe because it isn't a Catalyst app. It's like an iOS Mac app.

01:58:41   And Catalyst might have hooks into that kind of stuff. And one of the reasons I haven't made a Catalyst app is that once you do that, then you have to have a whole separate entry in the Mac App Store for your app and maintain that.

01:58:55   And submit it separately, have all these separate builds, and that's a lot of overhead for what has proven to be not no users, but not a lot of users.

01:59:09   Not a lot of people are using Overcast on their Macs. And of course that will grow as more people use them.

01:59:16   Obviously, as more people have these machines that can run it, then more people will run it.

01:59:22   But it's not a huge number. That being said, according to my analytics that I run, it is climbing quickly over the last couple of weeks. Or over the last week, rather.

01:59:32   Who would have thunk it?

01:59:33   So anyway, so far so good. I'm really looking forward to, well, I might have mentioned this last week, but I was going to say I'm really looking forward to taking this somewhere, like a patio somewhere or somewhere where I can work outside and not have to worry about my battery all the time.

01:59:47   But it's freaking freezing here now. So now that I have my wonderful new laptop, my portable desktop that I can take places, I can't really take it anywhere because everywhere is freezing and I'm still allergic to the indoors.

01:59:58   Although, random follow-up, Declan has his first shot appointment in a little over a week and I'm super excited about that.

02:00:04   So at that point it'll be three down, one to go. And for you guys, you'll be all in, which will be great.

02:00:11   In any case, this is an incredibly nice machine. I spent a preposterous amount of money on it and I probably over ordered on it. Like I probably didn't need 64GB of RAM.

02:00:23   I think I stand by my 4TB, but I probably didn't need the Macs. I probably could have been just fine with the Pro and 32GB of RAM.

02:00:31   But so far so freaking good. And outside of my big monitor problems, I really, really, really love this computer and I'm so happy it's here.

02:00:40   Thanks to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Linode, and Stripe. And thanks to our members who support us directly. You can join at ATP.FM/JOIN.

02:00:49   We will talk to you next week.

02:00:51   Now the show is over, they didn't even mean to begin, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental.

02:01:04   John didn't do any research, Marco and Casey wouldn't let him, cause it was accidental, oh it was accidental.

02:01:15   And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM. And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

02:01:30   That's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T Marco Arman S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-R-A-Q-S-A. It's accidental. They didn't mean to, accidental.

02:01:50   Tech podcast, so long.

02:01:55   So related to this computer, and potentially being my one and only computer, excepting my Mac mini server which we're not talking about.

02:02:03   I have now a, well not right now, but soon I will have an iMac Pro that I should probably get rid of, and an Intel MacBook Pro that I should probably get rid of.

02:02:13   I think I am going to unload both of them. There's a slim chance I might hand the MacBook Pro to Erin cause she's still on the adorable, but she uses it so infrequently that I really don't think she'd need the MacBook Pro.

02:02:24   I think if anything it being bigger and heavier would probably not even make her happy. So I'm going to talk to her about it and see what she thinks, but she'll probably just stick with the adorable.

02:02:34   So I'll have this Intel MacBook Pro to get rid of and probably the iMac Pro to get rid of.

02:02:40   I've not really done this, but a couple of times Marco, so I had some questions for you. Let me just rattle off the questions cause they're all pretty quick and then you can kind of answer them in whatever order you see fit.

02:02:52   First of all, do you, and again save your answers for a second here, do you typically include accessories?

02:03:00   So for the MacBook Pro, all things being equal, I'd probably just hoard the power supply and USB-C cable, but on the flip side of that if I was buying a new MacBook Pro I'd probably want those things.

02:03:10   So what do you do with that? Does the fact that both of these have active AppleCare+ things, does that matter? Do I take that into account in the pricing or do I just say that that's an advantage to make the product seem more lucrative?

02:03:25   And then more than anything else, how do you price these? Cause I did a little bit of spelunking on eBay and I came up with some numbers that I'm not sure if they're realistic or not.

02:03:35   And my recollection is that what you would do, and I'm going to shut up in a second and let you actually answer it, what you would do is you would look at eBay and basically discount a few hundred bucks or something like that.

02:03:44   And so I've had a couple of people reach out and kind of kick the tires on each of these machines so I don't think I necessarily need to go to eBay.

02:03:52   I certainly don't want to go to Apple because those trade-in values are not great.

02:03:56   But if these couple of interested parties end up falling through, like my plan was to just post to Twitter and be like, "Hey, first one to pee on it, so to speak, is the winner."

02:04:06   So, yeah, I'm not going to post that. But what is your advice and your approach to unloading not very old and still very nice computers?

02:04:19   So, it depends on a lot of factors. And it's very much like trading in old cars. If you do the trade-in route, like to the dealer, if you do the Apple trade-in, you will get the worst price but the least hassle and the least risk.

02:04:37   So that is a really good option if there's something kind of flaky or wrong with it in the sense that you don't necessarily want to sell it to somebody who you know and who knows you in some way.

02:04:51   Whether that's somebody on Twitter or an eBay person or whatever. You don't want to be personally responsible for it if it's a little bit flaky or broken.

02:05:01   So if there's anything kind of wrong with it, trade it in and take the hit. Also, if you just want to be quickly done with it or if it's going to be a big pain.

02:05:12   And this might be something like, you know, if shipping it's going to be really problematic. Like, you know, if it's something that's big and heavy and hard to ship well/affordably like a Mac Pro Tower, for instance.

02:05:25   Those are larger, more expensive to ship. I remember the last time when I sold a Mac Pro Tower years ago, I remember it cost like $150 to ship it.

02:05:38   It was a big chunk out of its value just for shipping. And I'd say the original box. Like if you don't have the shipping box for some of these things, it's even more because then you have to buy shipping boxes and padding and stuff like that.

02:05:51   So anyway, so trading in is good in the sense that you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Like if you do a trade in to Apple, they will send you packaging material.

02:05:59   Like they mail you an empty box with padding, you stick the computer in it and you send it back.

02:06:03   Oh, quick aside about that. A listener, and I don't have their name handy, but a listener wrote in to say they were looking to trade in their John style, what is it, 2019? Whatever.

02:06:13   That's right.

02:06:14   Mac Pro.

02:06:15   Yeah, the current giant Mac Pro.

02:06:17   Apparently Apple was not at all prepared for this because they sent them a box that was clearly meant for the trash can Mac Pro, which I just thought was hilarious.

02:06:26   You can't even fit the monitor stand in that box.

02:06:28   No.

02:06:29   Remember how big the monitor stand box is, Mark? I mean, I talk about it when I got mine. I'm sure you noticed when you had yours. The monitor stand box is huge.

02:06:35   Yeah, actually I just moved it yesterday because I was rearranging the basement a little bit. There it is. It's massive and heavy even without the stand in it.

02:06:42   So for selling on eBay and stuff, eBay is a great chance to be pretty much guaranteed a buyer. It might not be the best buyer, it might not be the most profitable buyer.

02:06:56   You're going to have people saying, "Hey, can you maybe ship it to this remote island I live on that's going to be a pain in the butt for you and you've got to fill out a million customs forms because it's like four countries away?"

02:07:07   No. You don't want to do any of that. If you go on eBay, keep it simple. Say continental US only and do shipping at cost because they'll calculate it all for you.

02:07:17   The good thing about eBay is that you will get a buyer, pretty much anything unless you grossly overpriced the starting bid, but for the most part you will get a buyer.

02:07:26   And the eBay app is surprisingly good. What I would suggest, not too long ago if you were to sell something on eBay you'd probably do it similar to the way I used to do it which is like, "Take out the good camera, get out the light box to get really good photos of the object and dust it off, get all perfect, get no speck of dust on anywhere, take the pictures, import into Lightroom, boost them up, get the contrast nice, oh there's a speck of dust, clone stamp that out so you don't see the dust in the pictures."

02:07:55   Really a lot of effort going into it. And then you go on and you make a really nice description and everything. I would suggest throw all of that expectation away and just use the app on your iPad.

02:08:09   And maybe even on your phone if you want to, but iPad is fine too. You get a little more space with things like pictures and text and stuff on the iPad so it's nicer.

02:08:17   But just use the built in camera and don't use any fancy lighting or fancy photo setup or anything. Set the item on a table, dust it off in a quick way and use the eBay app and the built in camera in the eBay app to take like 5 or 6 photos all around it.

02:08:36   And then you can look up and you can say "alright it's this model computer, here's a description" and type in approximate description, plain text, put in no effort into your listing except a handful of iPhone/iPad photos and a quick text description.

02:08:52   That's all you need. And what this does is it makes it really easy for you the seller. Which means you're more likely to do it and it's less hassle and time for you. Then when the thing actually gets sold, like now that people can buy it directly on eBay and check out on eBay, you don't have to deal with PayPal or anything like that anymore.

02:09:17   eBay just pays you. And it's really nice because it's really easy. Now they will charge you for this. You always pay fees on eBay. You pay both the listing fee and the final value fee just like it always was.

02:09:30   The payment fee is probably on top of it now too. You end up losing something like 20% to fees. 15-20% I think is kind of the all in for eBay. So that's significant. And so this is why it's not a place to get the most money but it is a place where you can be pretty much guaranteed a buyer and you will generally have few to no problems with them.

02:09:57   The previous problems in the past of very fraudulent buyers a lot of times for laptops and stuff don't seem to be as common especially if you're restricted to US only and only accept their built in payment system and stuff like that.

02:10:09   So they make it very easy. And then if you tell them the dimensions and weight of your package before you even list the item, they will give you a shipping label.

02:10:20   Oh interesting. Because they're fully integrated now with the post office and everything. So you don't even have to do that. All you have to do is print it out and tape it on the box and mail it and you're done.

02:10:30   So they've really reduced a lot of the old friction and a lot of the old steps you used to have to take to sell on eBay. It's now really quite easy to sell stuff there.

02:10:39   The other option would be as you mentioned like Twitter or if people email in saying hey can I buy your laptop, that kind of thing. The downside of that kind of sale is that you're limited in buyers.

02:10:52   So if you're selling something that your audience might not want or at a price they might not want to pay, it might not go anywhere. Whereas if you put it on eBay, it will sell.

02:11:01   No question. You put it on eBay, make a seven day auction, a week later it will be out of your house. No question. It will definitely sell.

02:11:09   So I've been leaning more towards eBay for a lot of that kind of stuff recently. Anything I'm not trading in I'll usually go to eBay. Just because they have just made it so much easier.

02:11:20   That being said, an even easier option if you don't necessarily need the money from it is to give it to a family member or friend who needs a new computer. That's also a really good option.

02:11:32   And so whenever I have someone in my life that could really benefit from it, I try to take that option. That's not the common case unfortunately because most people in my life don't care about computers as much as I do.

02:11:42   So usually I end up selling. Or in the case of selling a desktop, most people in my life who need a computer don't want a desktop, they want a laptop.

02:11:53   And so when we sold our IMAX a couple years back, one of them went to a family member and the other one went on eBay and it was fine.

02:12:00   So how do you price either for eBay or for a Twitter sale if you will?

02:12:05   So for eBay it's super easy. You can go search for completed items and then filter that by sold items and it will show you what this exact item has actually sold for in the last whatever days.

02:12:18   eBay sold items is probably the best way to figure out what is this exact thing with this exact configuration actually worth.

02:12:28   See what it sells for in eBay. It's like well they found buyers so obviously that's about what it's worth. So pick whatever range you see there and make the starting bid something way low so that way.

02:12:39   And then set the buy it now price like maybe a little bit below that range.

02:12:44   Because if yours is going for 100 bucks less, 200 bucks less, 10%, 15% less than the value that people see by doing these kinds of searches, it will sell fast.

02:12:59   And you will have less trouble getting it sold. People will be more likely to hit the buy it now button and then it's out of your house even sooner and with even less hassle.

02:13:10   Again this is one of those things like if you're willing to give up like a few percent off the price and get a little bit lower price you can have a faster, easier, more guaranteed sale.

02:13:20   So that's again usually what I do is I will, I hope people pick the buy it now. Most of my stuff that I sold recently never even went to auction.

02:13:28   People just pick the buy it now thing because I priced it you know 5 or 10% below what it seemed like it was worth.

02:13:34   And it went and that was it. If you're on Twitter doing that kind of sale, you basically do the same thing but you can kind of go lower because you can account for the eBay fees not being charged to you in that medium.

02:13:47   So what I usually do if I'm selling on Twitter, I'll look at the eBay sold out on price and I'll go maybe 20% lower than that.

02:13:54   Because I know I'm not going to pay the 15% eBay fees. That works out pretty well if you can find a buyer there.

02:14:00   But again for more specialized stuff or for computers that you have literally spent the last few months telling all of your audience you shouldn't buy, maybe eBay is the better choice.

02:14:12   How do you deal with payment from like stuff that you sell on Twitter? Isn't that annoying to deal with?

02:14:16   Usually you can take advantage of the fact that people trust you. I know this sounds terrible but you can use one of the options where it kind of works like cash to you.

02:14:27   So the buyer kind of has no recourse after they send it to you. That only works if people trust you obviously because that's a good amount of trust to put in somebody.

02:14:35   It's not that they trust you. The main thing, and I know this is not actionable advice for most people who aren't us, but the main feature that we all have is not like oh we're so trustworthy.

02:14:45   It's that we have a public presence that people know about so that if Marco screws someone out of a computer, it's a story.

02:14:53   You might seem like oh doesn't Marco have all the power? He's got the audience, this poor unknown person who is buying his computer doesn't have any power.

02:15:02   But that's not true. They have the power of now I have a story. Now Marco, this person you know from podcasts and developers, screwed me out of a computer.

02:15:08   That's a story. Sites will pick that up. That will gain traction.

02:15:12   And so the main reason we have the ability to say oh you can trust me, I think the mutual understanding is you can trust me because I know that I have a lot to lose by screwing you out of this thing.

02:15:24   And so therefore I won't. And so that's the basis of our trust.

02:15:28   Yeah.

02:15:29   That makes sense. Alright I appreciate it. So I've got to look at some eBay completed sales and see what these things should be pressed for.

02:15:38   Although I do have to say I have some experience trying to exchange money with people maybe not for selling computers and stuff but like if you're not limited to US only it can be surprisingly difficult to just like let's find a way that we can both agree on and use to transfer money between someone in the UK and someone in the US.

02:15:53   Oh just use Apple Pay. Oh apparently we don't have Apple Pay cash in the UK. I'm like why not? I don't know because Apple. Well what about PayPal? Why don't you use PayPal? Do you use Venmo? Is that a thing there?

02:16:02   There's a million services but if you have two parties on equal footing and no one is particularly motivated people don't want to sign up for a new payment thing.

02:16:14   Well I only use Apple Pay cash and Venmo and the other person says well I only use PayPal and some other thing you've never heard of.

02:16:21   And so now it's like a staring contest of like well so are you going to sign up for PayPal or am I going to sign up for Venmo? It's not super easy and if anyone says cryptocurrency I swear just don't even.

02:16:34   That's a hard no.

02:16:36   No and this is again not only for payment reasons but for shipping and customs/duty reasons you don't want to ship outside the US. It's not worth the hassle.

02:16:46   I'm sorry people outside the US you can buy from people in your countries to make things easier for you. As an individual seller occasionally of my computer equipment it is such a pain to ship to other countries because then you have to deal with customs.

02:17:00   And that is a massive wild card both for time to receive the item and for unexpected charges either to you or to the buyer.

02:17:10   And it's just a complexity level that's not worth it when you are not a professional seller of goods.

02:17:16   Plus they have the wrong keyboard right? Don't they have those terrible keyboards in the UK?

02:17:20   Yeah they sure do.

02:17:22   Where they enter key as giant and all the punctuation is in the wrong place.

02:17:25   And they can't program because their curly braces are all screwed up.

02:17:29   (laughs)

02:17:31   (beeping)