448: Next Year, Which Is Now


00:00:00   If I guarantee, if I absolutely guarantee that I'm getting a case, presumably some sort of leather case, probably the Apple one.

00:00:07   Oh, for the love of God, still get AppleCare.

00:00:09   Okay, that's where I was driving.

00:00:10   What are you doing? I believe in your ability to break it in the case.

00:00:14   Yes.

00:00:15   I never used to get AppleCare until I started going caseless, then AppleCare was my case.

00:00:19   You're getting old and clumsy.

00:00:21   Getting? Getting old? Getting clumsy? Are you kidding? I've been there for years.

00:00:29   All right, so we have a lot to talk about and we should dive right in. As per John Siracus's rules,

00:00:35   we are not going to do any follow-up this week, so we're going to have a pile of it next week,

00:00:38   I guarantee you. However, we need to talk about something far more important even than follow-up,

00:00:44   and I think I have the approval of Mr. John Siracus to say that. We need to talk about St. Jude

00:00:50   Children's Research Hospital. Hey, guess what? It's September, and September is Childhood Cancer

00:00:54   Awareness Month, and because of that we are joining Relay FM. Since we are Relay FM, we're part of

00:01:00   Relay FM, we're doing this with, I don't know, it doesn't matter. Anyway, Relay FM and us are trying

00:01:05   to raise money for St. Jude, and Relay set a goal of, if memory serves, $333,000 and 33 cents, I

00:01:14   think, because it was the third year that we/they are doing this, and thanks to a couple of people

00:01:20   in particular, we have surpassed that goal, and the new goal is not $400,000. John, how much is

00:01:27   the new goal? You put me on the spot, it's $400,001. That's correct, as it should be, am I right?

00:01:34   So anyway, so I wanted to call out a few different things and a few different people. First of all,

00:01:42   James Neal was the brief, astonishingly brief, leading donor with $21,001. So thank you, James,

00:01:52   and James has already written in and has said, "You know what? I'm doing this for the kids,

00:01:56   I don't need stickers. You can take your stickers and show..." No, he didn't say that, but James was

00:02:01   very kind and said, "Don't worry about the stickers, just happy to do something nice for St. Jude."

00:02:06   And then, breaking news, earlier today, we were getting extremely close to hitting the goal of

00:02:14   $333,333, and then a group of people, it sounds like it's an app that I would enjoy, it's called,

00:02:25   let me look this up, 1Password, a group of people that work on an app called 1Password,

00:02:31   it sounds like it's good, I should check it out sometime, they donated $26,922.04. Holy jamolys!

00:02:40   So the team at 1Password, it turns out that you absolutely can buy my love, and it costs you the

00:02:46   small amount of $26,922.04. So, hey, thank you to Dave Tier and the rest of the 1Password folks.

00:02:55   Everyone really appreciates it, and if I'm not mistaken, it was their donation that put us

00:03:01   over the original goal, such that the new goal is $400,001. Now, here's the thing, if you donate

00:03:12   enough money to be on the leaderboard, I will allow you to break rules, and neither of the two

00:03:19   of them know that this is happening, so prepare yourselves, gentlemen. This is a iPhone event day,

00:03:25   so we do not have follow-up. However, Gus the dog, previous champion, wrote in about a week ago,

00:03:32   and Gus the dog also issued the stickers and said, "No, no, don't worry about it, thanks,

00:03:36   but no thanks." But Gus has requested something, and since Gus was briefly the leader, Gus gets to

00:03:42   screw up the show for this event, and Gus says, "Please just let Marco know on the next show that,

00:03:48   as someone born and raised on Long Island, I can confirm John is correct, Fire Island is part of

00:03:53   Long Island." So, Gus the dog, thank you for your feedback. I love these high donors.

00:03:58   I bet you do. I bet you do. So, I've actually, I've been doing more surveying on that point,

00:04:05   even though we're not doing follow-up, just a very quick thing. I have found more people who said it

00:04:10   is part of Long Island, but it's still significantly a minority. I would say it's at least three

00:04:15   quarters of people I've asked so far say it is not the same or not part of it, whereas one quarter

00:04:21   about seem to say that it is. Well, that's a good thing facts aren't determined by polling.

00:04:25   All right, we do have some other follow-up, including from other brief leaders/champions,

00:04:33   but I will save that for another day. We should move right along and talk a little more about

00:04:38   what you can do to help St. Jude and the Children's Research Hospital there. Hey,

00:04:42   you can donate money. You can donate your money. It does not have to be the absolutely ridiculous

00:04:47   sum of $26,922.04. It can be just a few bucks. That's fine. That's awesome. So, if you want to

00:04:55   help out kids who have cancer and who doesn't, then go to stjude.org/ate. Because, hey, guess

00:05:05   what? Cancer sucks. Childhood cancer sucks like a lot. So, let's try to fix it. Let's do what we can.

00:05:11   St. Jude Children's Research Hospital is not going to stop until it has cured or until we have cured

00:05:18   childhood cancer. They're doing everything they can to do that. Doctors from all 50 states and

00:05:23   around the world refer their patients to St. Jude because they have the world's best survival rates

00:05:28   for some of the most aggressive childhood cancers. St. Jude also provides thousands of

00:05:32   pre-consultations for doctors treating children worldwide, including kids in your community,

00:05:36   even non-Americans. So, hey, guess what? If you have a few bucks to scrape together,

00:05:42   please, stjude.org, please throw a few dollars their way. It is almost Marco's turn to do the

00:05:49   hard sell. However, John has pointed out to me in the past a couple of things worth noting.

00:05:53   Hey, your employer might match your donation. And if they do, please email Steven Hackett at

00:06:00   an address that I don't remember off the top of my head. I believe it's steven@relayfm. That's

00:06:03   p-h-s-t-e-p-h-e-n @relayfm, I think is correct. Anyways, email Steven and say, "Hey, my employer

00:06:10   matched with such and such amount and that will contribute to our goal," which is excellent. And

00:06:15   not to poke the crypto bear, which is our favorite thing to do these days, but hey,

00:06:19   you can even donate crypto. I don't think it counts toward our goal, but you can donate cryptocurrency.

00:06:23   So if you feel guilty about destroying the planet, which you probably should, you can offset that

00:06:30   guilt by saving children. It's a win-win. And I'm not going to announce the URL because it's kind of

00:06:34   long, but you'll have to look it up. But sometimes to say it can be done. We'll put in the show notes.

00:06:38   Marco, would you mind please giving the hard sell on this, the day of iPhones? So first of all,

00:06:45   to reiterate, the only thing that is sensible to do with cryptocurrency is donate to St. Jude.

00:06:49   You should just give it all to them and then you can be absolved of whatever emotional weight you

00:06:56   have of destroying the earth with your cryptocurrency. Yes, I know about proof of

00:06:58   stake or whatever. I don't care. So anyway, the real reason you should give to St. Jude,

00:07:04   even if you don't have cryptocurrency, is that Apple event season is upon us. The Apple event

00:07:10   was today. We'll get to that in a moment. But obviously we are at risk, you all out there,

00:07:16   at risk of spending large amounts of money with Apple in the next few days or weeks. And if you

00:07:21   don't do it at this event, there's probably another event coming sometime soon where you might have

00:07:26   something there you're going to blow a bunch of money on. And so sometime soon, listeners,

00:07:31   you're going to feel the need or the want to blow a bunch of money on Apple stuff.

00:07:35   And when you do that, we've seen what these things cost. They have 38% profit or whatever margins.

00:07:42   There's a lot of money going towards Apple. Take some of that money that you're going to give to

00:07:47   them and divert it to St. Jude. So that's up to you what that could be. It could be something like,

00:07:53   hey, I'm going to buy a $1,000 iPhone something max or whatever. Then maybe kick 100 bucks to

00:08:00   St. Jude. Maybe 200 bucks to St. Jude. Whatever you can do. If you can't do that much, give them

00:08:05   30 bucks, give them 20 bucks. Whatever you can give, give them what you can. And it really makes

00:08:10   a big difference. And it will absolve you of your guilt of just rampant, shameless consumerism that

00:08:16   we are all about to celebrate by talking about how we're going to spend, like, how we're going to buy

00:08:21   a new $1,000 phone to replace our old $1,000 phone because the camera's a lot better or whatever.

00:08:26   We're all going to do this. And even for those of you out there who are more reasonable with

00:08:30   your budgeting and purchase decisions, give what you can to St. Jude. Because it's a really good

00:08:35   organization. This is really good. Just a fantastic cause that really makes a huge difference in

00:08:39   people's lives. And it's hard to find a better place to put your money than St. Jude. So give

00:08:44   what you can. And may you be absolved of your consumer guilt by doing so.

00:08:49   - All right, do we want to talk about Fire Island or should we talk about the event?

00:08:55   I don't want to start another fight.

00:08:57   - First, I think we should begin by just having a video of us just like, you know,

00:09:02   just a whole bunch of like beautiful people in beautiful places that have nothing to do

00:09:05   with our podcast. I just, here's how we feel. And then we should come out and say,

00:09:10   we made this video to show you how excited we are. We really love this place. This is how excited we

00:09:16   are. Look at how excited we are. - Maybe we can make it like

00:09:19   a satellite phone call from the desert. - I liked that theory.

00:09:24   - This is my guess when Tim Cook tweeted a picture of like someone off in the middle.

00:09:28   We're coming from a new location. Turns out that the new location was California.

00:09:31   - Can we have a little special treat for the bootleg people if you don't mind? Because

00:09:37   please don't put this in the show. Please don't put this in the show. I will swear.

00:09:40   - How much editing do you think I'm going to do tonight, Casey?

00:09:42   - Oh God. All right, then I'm just going to bite my tongue. I was going to complain and

00:09:45   moan about how obsessed with California Californians are, but I'll just leave it at that.

00:09:48   - No, look, California is a beautiful place. - It is. Oh, it is.

00:09:51   - Whenever I visit there, I'm so envious of just how... Because New York is a pretty damn

00:09:56   beautiful place too, but California really is something else. It's really amazing. The reasons

00:10:02   why I don't live in California have nothing to do with its beauty or its climate or anything like

00:10:08   that. Those things are all great. And if it weren't for all the passive aggression, I think it would be

00:10:13   a lot nicer. - Marco prefers aggressive

00:10:16   aggression from you. - Yeah, I do. That's what's great

00:10:19   about New York. - Hard agree.

00:10:20   - Yeah, in New York, everyone just tells you what they think at all times to a fault. And if somebody

00:10:27   doesn't like you, it'll be very clear to you. In California, that's not how things are done. And

00:10:33   also in New York, the humor is very dry and sarcastic. If you bring dry sarcastic humor

00:10:37   to California, they just think you're a jerk. They don't get it and they think you're a jerk,

00:10:43   but you won't be able to tell they think you're a jerk because they won't even tell you directly

00:10:47   because they're very passive aggressive there. But I do love a lot of people in California,

00:10:50   and some of them are very, very nice. But yeah, it's not a good cultural fit for me.

00:10:54   - The funny thing to me about California is that it is hilariously, preposterously, absurdly,

00:11:01   unreasonably expensive to live in a place that is doing everything it can to fall off the continental

00:11:07   United States, to light itself up in flames and then completely die because it has no water.

00:11:13   It is a beautiful place. It is a beautiful place. And there are so many wonderful things

00:11:19   about California, but it is hilarious to me how proud Californians are of California. The only

00:11:24   people that I know that are more proud of their state are Texans. And there's a lot more guns

00:11:29   there, so I don't want to offend them. So I'm just gonna leave it at that. But yeah, this was

00:11:33   a celebration of California as everything Apple is. And so after my eyes rolled right the hell

00:11:38   out of my head, I picked them up, put them back in my noggin, and then I could continue watching

00:11:43   the presentation. We did a little bit on Apple TV+, which was fine, whatever.

00:11:47   - It is so, I just got this strange feeling seeing Tim Cook, this tech company executive,

00:11:55   basically becoming for a few minutes a TV executive and having to promote a TV lineup.

00:12:02   It just was weird. You're accustomed to TV people doing TV stuff. You see the head of NBC or

00:12:10   whatever, "Here's our great fall lineup and all this in prime time." And it just felt weird to

00:12:16   me to see Apple, a tech company, doing that. Does that seem weird or is everyone just kind of used

00:12:20   to that now? - I feel like a tech company's

00:12:23   running video streaming services. Arguably, Netflix has always kind of been a tech company

00:12:28   even when they were mailing us DVDs. But Amazon certainly qualifies and they have a streaming

00:12:33   service. And I feel like that's just sort of par for the course that large tech companies who want

00:12:40   service revenue eventually get a video streaming service. And then they eventually realize they

00:12:45   need original content because people won't give them their other content once they realize they're

00:12:48   making money off of it. And so this is just where we find ourselves. And it may be weird for us,

00:12:51   because like you said, the head of NBC, does any kid listening to this know or care what the head

00:12:57   of NBC has to say about anything? No, it's all streaming these days. So I think this is just the

00:13:00   world we live in. That, yeah, tech companies have streaming services because streaming services were

00:13:04   originally a tech innovation, even though they are rapidly becoming commonplace. And those companies

00:13:10   that have them realize that they want that money. They got to get that original content and then you

00:13:14   got to promote it. So I guess it's strange, especially if you're an Apple fan thinking like

00:13:19   Apple from the '80s is going to be pitching a bunch of high-budget, high-polish TV shows. But

00:13:24   it just seemed pretty normal to me. I would just as soon leave that out of my product announcement

00:13:29   keynotes, but Apple's going to do what Apple's going to do and how they showed iCards for like

00:13:33   three different events in a row too. Yeah, I mean, it does look like there's some pretty good

00:13:37   programming coming. I don't feel like I have enough time in the day for all the stuff I want

00:13:42   to watch as is, but there are definitely things like the Will Ferrell, Paul Rudd, is that right,

00:13:48   thing looks pretty good. The Jon Stewart thing looks pretty good. I like the first season of

00:13:52   the morning show. I'll watch the second season of that. So I don't know, there's good stuff coming,

00:13:56   but we really should move along and talk about the iPad. The no qualifications, just straight-up iPad

00:14:03   got updated to a two-year-old processor and it still has traditional touch ID, but it got

00:14:11   better cameras, including center stage, which is the thing where it pans and tilts and zooms and

00:14:16   whatnot. Can I just say how painful it is that the least expensive iPad has center stage, but it's

00:14:24   still too fancy for the Mac to have. Yeah, that's very true. Well, and they also didn't give it to

00:14:28   the iPhone for whatever that's worth, but we'll get to that. Maybe it's because of the angle.

00:14:32   I was feeling bad about the fact that like, you know, $8 bajillion Mac Pro doesn't even come with

00:14:38   a camera, but anyway, even if you put a camera on it and it's a 4K camera, oh no, center stage for

00:14:42   you, sorry. But I was thinking for most Macs, like Macbooks or whatever, that maybe the camera is not

00:14:48   high quality enough for them to crop out of it. Because what they do with center stage is it's a

00:14:52   really wide angle camera, but they just show you a crop of that and they just move around. It's pan

00:14:57   and scan. They just move around where the crop is in the frame. And maybe the cameras are so bad and

00:15:01   so low resolution on Macs that if they tried to do that, it would just look like a blurry Vaseline

00:15:06   mess. But I hope Macs catch up with this. I'm glad it's on this iPad, don't get me wrong.

00:15:12   And this iPad continues to lag by what? The same constant amount. Like I said, it was an A12 last

00:15:17   year, now it's an A13. It lags by two numbers. The current trip is an A15. This one has an A13,

00:15:24   as we talked about in last week's show. That's a good chip for a cheap iPad. It's a shame that this

00:15:30   is the last iPad on the old design and it's the last iPad with lightning and all that, and has the

00:15:35   first generation pencil and all that other stuff. But hopefully, unlike a product that we will

00:15:39   discuss later in the show, I'm sure next year, maybe this design will finally go away and we'll

00:15:44   have a clean, uniform iPad lineup all with USB-C. But in the meantime, it's still a good iPad.

00:15:50   I mean, first of all, I do think the timing is kind of funny that they released this right after

00:15:55   the school year starts, because I think the largest consumer of the cheapest iPad is probably schools.

00:16:00   And so the schools probably just bought a ton of the outgoing model. Well, but if they keep

00:16:06   this cadence, they'll buy a ton of this model for next school year, and then right after they buy

00:16:09   the new one, it'll come out. Yeah, that's true. But anyway, I feel like this iPad does a lot

00:16:17   kind of under the radar. This one is the one that people buy, schools, businesses, but I think

00:16:24   mostly schools just buy this in massive quantities. If you need an inexpensive iPad for some reason,

00:16:29   whether it's for children or for casual users, business users, installation type things like

00:16:36   square terminal, cash registers, and restaurants, there's all sorts of things where you just kind

00:16:40   of need an iPad. It doesn't need to be very high-end in any way. You just kind of want it

00:16:45   to be inexpensive and have the basic features covered pretty well. And so I think they always,

00:16:50   whatever the lowest end iPad is, they always sell a ton of them. So this is an important model in

00:16:55   the sense that it's very widespread and it's by far the cheapest way into this kind of stuff,

00:17:02   but it's also really boring from our point of view as a tech podcast. There's not much to say about

00:17:08   it. I think Casey put in the notes here, I didn't notice this, "USBC power adapter." So the iPad

00:17:16   doesn't have USB-C on it, but I assume it comes with a cable that has lightning on one end and

00:17:20   USB-C on the other, and that USB-C plugs into the power brick. So the iPad kind of got USB-C,

00:17:26   but not in a way you really care about. No, it's certainly not. And yeah, they made very

00:17:30   brief mention of the fact that it has a USB-C power adapter and I was like, "Oh, oh, oh, USB-C,

00:17:34   oh wait, but that's the original Apple Pencil, so it's gotta be lightning." And so it's exactly what

00:17:38   you said, Jon, that it's gotta be a lightning to USB-C cable in there. To go back quickly a half

00:17:45   step, Declan last year was remote for kindergarten the entire year. He was using a school-provided

00:17:50   iPad and guess what? It was iPad seventh generation, 32 gigs, and it was full pretty much the moment he

00:17:55   was issued it. But nevertheless, that is, like you guys were both saying, it is definitely the

00:18:00   school-kid iPad. And I mean, it does look nice and it's a nice upgrade. It's still old tech,

00:18:05   but it's reasonably cheap. It's $330 for us for 64 gigs or 300 bucks if you're an education buyer.

00:18:11   So order today, available next week. Yeah, and it is twice as much storage before. You're saying,

00:18:15   you know, the 32 was the standard before, now it's 64. So that's a nice little upgrade.

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00:20:20   All right, iPad mini coming back from sleep. I wouldn't say the dead, but coming back from

00:20:29   a slumber perhaps. It's quote their biggest upgrade ever quote. You know, I used to be

00:20:34   a very big iPad mini apologist. I used to love my iPad minis, iPads mini, whatever.

00:20:39   I still have a couple, like one of which is in use as a kid iPad. I don't think it's really for

00:20:46   me anymore because I really do like having the iPad Pro and particularly having a keyboard that

00:20:51   I can use easily with the iPad Pro. But that being said, holy crap, this thing looks awesome.

00:20:57   So it has the flat sides that I really, really enjoy. And we're going to talk about that some

00:21:02   more later. It has an A15, which I didn't say out loud during the keynote, but it does. It

00:21:08   supports the pencil too. And I noticed it was very funny that the pencil appears to be just a touch

00:21:14   less tall than the iPad is itself. The iPad and the pencil are very nearly the same height,

00:21:20   which I thought was quite funny. It comes in purple, pink starlight space gray, and apparently

00:21:25   no silver. An 8.3 inch display with wide color, true tone. The main mention of it being extremely

00:21:31   anti-reflective, which I thought was interesting. And 500 nits, which probably doesn't mean much

00:21:35   right now, but will mean a little something in comparison later on. It does have the power button

00:21:39   touch ID. This is in contrast to the iPad that has the traditional home button touch ID. This one is

00:21:46   USB-C. It has 12 megapixel front and rear cameras, including a rear camera with true tone flash,

00:21:52   the 12 megapixel front camera center stage, a new speaker system with stereo, which they

00:21:57   specifically said stereo in landscape, which I guess makes sense if they're on what I would

00:22:01   consider the top and bottom if you're holding it in portrait, but I thought that was an interesting

00:22:04   comment. Also available for order right now. Yeah, you can order right now and it will be available

00:22:09   next week. Yeah, this is awesome. So our kid uses an iPad mini as his primary computing device most

00:22:17   of the time. And because people saw, people on Twitter at Blue Bay that everyone's like,

00:22:24   why are you upgrading the iPad mini so much? And the reason is like the iPad mini for a long time

00:22:29   has been a low end device. And you know, as we've, as many nerds like us have said

00:22:34   from the iPad and the iPhone and even the Mac lineup, like sometimes the small thing needs to

00:22:40   be low end for whatever reason, you know, that maybe the high performance hardware can't fit

00:22:43   in the smaller enclosure of something. But there's also a lot of people who want a smaller thing in

00:22:50   the product line, but who also want it to be good. You know, like sometimes the small thing is the

00:22:55   low end thing most of the time, but it's also nice when there's a small thing that has higher end

00:23:00   options or higher end performance in some way. And the iPad mini for forever has been just kind of,

00:23:06   you know, it's always been middle of the road hardware, not super, you know, great in any

00:23:13   real respect, oftentimes lagging behind by a year or two and not updated very frequently. And it

00:23:20   went through a time about three, four years ago when we all thought it was dead forever. But the

00:23:24   good thing is then they finally updated it and they've actually kept it updated now. This is

00:23:30   continuing a pretty good pattern. I think the last one is out, is updated about two and a half years

00:23:36   ago. So this is not bad to have this one be, you know, here now. As for the design and everything,

00:23:42   what they basically did is made it a tiny iPad Air, although it's actually better than the iPad Air

00:23:46   because it has the, it has an A15 and the iPad Air has an A14. So they've upgraded it just more

00:23:52   recently, but otherwise it's basically a mini iPad Air, which the iPad Air is basically, you know,

00:23:56   a thinned down iPad Pro. And so this actually has really good capabilities and this is way higher

00:24:04   end than I would have guessed. I never would have guessed that they would have put the new high end

00:24:09   chip, the A15, in the iPad mini update. You should have listened to last week's episode because that

00:24:13   was one of the ideas of like, why is Apple making such a big initial order to the A15 of the A15 chip

00:24:19   from their chip supplier? Maybe they just needed to order a bunch to get a low price, but the other

00:24:22   possibility was like, maybe they're putting an A15 into more stuff. Now I don't know how many the iPad

00:24:26   mini sells, maybe it's a drop in the bucket compared to the iPhone, but that was an open

00:24:30   question based on the rumors. Was it going to be A14 or A15? And they did the weird thing in this

00:24:34   presentation where they're like, the new CPU is 40% more than such and such and GPU is X percent

00:24:40   more than whatever, but they never said what chip was in it. And as soon as they didn't say,

00:24:45   I immediately thought it's gotta be an A15 because it was an A14 they would just say.

00:24:48   Now them not saying because it's an A15 is dumb in my opinion because 20 minutes later they're

00:24:54   going to quote unquote unveil the A15 with the new iPhones. Like we know it's going to be in the new

00:24:58   iPhones, you just increment the number every year, it's not rocket science. They should have just

00:25:02   said it was an A15 and you'll hear more about that chip later. It's not like it's unprecedented,

00:25:07   they've done it before where a couple of times in the past, some other device other than the iPhone

00:25:12   has rolled out the new system on a chip, usually an iPad before the phone. But anyway, it's an A15.

00:25:18   And so yeah, some of those extra A15s that they ordered or whatever are going into iPads. And

00:25:22   if you're interested in an iPad mini, this is when you buy because it's not going to be updated to an

00:25:27   A16 next year. I'm pretty much guaranteed that right? Unless they've really changed how they're

00:25:30   doing the mini. So at this moment, this mini is an amazing machine. It's price like one,

00:25:36   it's expensive. It's like starts at $499 or whatever. But it is like Margo said, it's

00:25:41   it's like a it's not even a mini iPad Air, it's better than many iPad Air. It's not quite a mini

00:25:46   Pro, but it's kind of in between those two things. So this is a great little machine. And if you are

00:25:51   a fan of this, like, you know, this is this is the time to buy just buy it now and be happy with your

00:25:56   purchase for the next few years before the next one comes out. Yeah, it's a fantastic looking

00:26:00   thing. I'm we are we are most don't tell him we're probably going to get Adam one for Christmas.

00:26:04   But but it's the only thing is they made it more expensive as well. You know, the iPad,

00:26:10   even the iPad mini, you know, every iPad once you spec it up, you're going to be near $1,000.

00:26:14   Probably and this is no different. This is like if you actually want like the 256 gig model,

00:26:20   and maybe if you want cellular, like that's that's going to be like seven or $800 because it's now it

00:26:26   starts at 500 which I think is 100 more than before. But it I think, given that they're giving

00:26:33   it high end hardware now, I think that's reasonable. We will see when it actually gets here.

00:26:40   You know, I'll let you know after Christmas sometime. But it looks like a pretty awesome

00:26:45   upgrade. And if you would have said, you know, the iPad mini is rumored to get an update, what do you

00:26:49   think would be in it? I wouldn't have guessed it would be this high end. And I wouldn't have even

00:26:53   guessed it would have gotten the iPad Air design. I would have thought it would have been basically

00:26:56   just like the cheap iPad but smaller. And it's not they made it a pretty nice, like at least

00:27:02   mid range, if not somewhat high end product. And that's great. I wish I knew how many of these

00:27:07   things they sold because I do wonder if the choice to go with an A15 was more of an economies of

00:27:12   scale choice than anything else. I'm just like, let's not complicated. Let's not you know, like,

00:27:18   let's just put all the let's let's make the biggest order of A15s that we can and we know this, we

00:27:22   don't update this product that often. So it's just simpler to let's just go with A15 everywhere, like

00:27:26   because it doesn't need it. No one is dying for an A15. And if they said an A14, it would still be a

00:27:31   great machine. But lo and behold, it gets the A15 because they've just got a lot of them. And it's

00:27:35   great chip. And it's a great chip for an iPad of this size. Like you don't need like an X variant

00:27:39   to have, you know, a huge GPU for all the pixels that it's pushing is the beauty of the mini,

00:27:44   right? Small size, small display, you can think of it as a really, really big iPhone 13, if you want

00:27:50   to only I guess without the phone part, but just having had like kind of like the M1 being at

00:27:55   everything, you know, being in the in the top end iPad, and also all of the arm Max, it's just nice

00:28:01   to have one chip and to use it everywhere. And if your chip is really good, like the A15 is and like

00:28:05   the M1 is, go for it. And everyone and everyone who gets that in any of their products, like to

00:28:09   think of the M1. If you have one of those Macs, or if you have the iPad, everybody's happy with

00:28:14   that chip. No one is feels like, oh, I got this $900 or $999 MacBook Air, but it's got a stupid

00:28:20   iPad chip in it. And on the flip side, no one gets the iPad Pro and says, oh, it's got the stupid Mac

00:28:25   chip in it. Everybody likes it. They make good silicon by their products. You know, the chat

00:28:30   room pointed out a little while ago, and I did not notice during the presentation, the volume buttons

00:28:34   are now at the top of the same like plane as the touch ID button. Oh, you're right. I did not notice

00:28:41   that. I think it's because the pencil takes up the entire side of the darn thing. Oh, yeah, I see it.

00:28:45   The two little sorry. Yeah, I think you're right. It's got it. It's got to be the pencil. I did not

00:28:48   notice that. I think that's reasonable for the mini, like, especially if you're using it in landscape

00:28:53   mode. That's the whole mystery of the iPad. And I think that the ones that I was gonna say the ones

00:28:57   with face ID, but this one doesn't have face ID, but it looks like it might, but it doesn't.

00:29:00   The ones that don't have a home button on the front of it, there's less of a sort of hardware

00:29:07   opinion about what is the correct orientation, ignoring the logo on the back, which is gonna

00:29:11   be covered by a case or whatever anyway. So in that scenario, having like, oh, they're on the

00:29:18   top, but really they're on the side if you're constantly using it in landscape. It's a very

00:29:21   confusing product, but anyway, I think it's fine. I think it's a perfectly reasonable compromise

00:29:25   for the pencil because I think the pencil is great and you definitely want the one that sticks to the

00:29:29   side because it's so much better than that stupid lightning harpoon thing. Oh, harpoon was generous.

00:29:34   No, that was more like the, you know, the really excited pencil. Unicorn horn, narwhal. Yeah,

00:29:41   it could be a little bit less crude. That's much better. One thing I thought was really funny,

00:29:46   though, about the iPad mini is that they have the Face ID iPad generation design here,

00:29:52   you actually mentioned with half Face ID, but the rounded screen corners, the edge-to-edge screen,

00:29:58   in quotes, but the margins, like the bezels around the screen seem to be about the same

00:30:03   thickness as on all the large iPads. So when they shrink it down to this small screen size,

00:30:08   it looks proportionally like a much thicker bezel. And I love, they kept saying this beautiful

00:30:14   edge-to-edge screen and you look at this thing and it's so not edge-to-edge. And I think it looks

00:30:20   good, but I wouldn't have used that terminology over and over again while showing it on screen.

00:30:26   I think we're going to look at this in 10 years and we're going to laugh at how thick this bezel is.

00:30:31   I mean, maybe, but I kind of feel like that the bezel serves a purpose on an iPad as a place for

00:30:39   your fingers to go when you grip it. And even though, even though, like, I don't know if Apple

00:30:43   agrees with that because they just be like, we don't care. We're bringing the screen all

00:30:46   to the edge as soon as we can. Cause that's an Apple thing to do. But if you, you know,

00:30:50   if you believe in the idea of having some amount of place to grip it, that part should scale with

00:30:57   the size of our fingers, not with the size of the screen. So keeping it the same size now,

00:31:01   they probably kept the same size just again, cause economies of scale and, you know,

00:31:04   similarities of parts of manufacturing and so on and so forth. And maybe they will bring it all to

00:31:07   the edge, but we said the same thing when they brought in, remember from like the original iPad

00:31:10   that had like an inch and a half around all sides to grab it, that was arguably much better for

00:31:15   gripping, but it was a lot of wasted space. And when they went to this design, it was like, Oh,

00:31:19   there's so much less room to grip. And we have to add, you know, machine learning finger rejection.

00:31:25   So you're, you know, see your thumb, remember that whole thing when they went to the, you know,

00:31:28   so it knows that your thumb that's that you're not trying to press the button on the side of the

00:31:31   screen that you're just grabbing it. Like it causes problems, but I think going all the way

00:31:37   edge to edge will not necessarily make a better iPad. If anything, it will just make people start

00:31:41   buying cases and they'll grab by the case part. I guess that's the, you know, the path of naked

00:31:46   robotic core, but I'm, I'm kinda, I kind of liked the idea, especially if this is going to be an

00:31:51   iPad that a kid might use that, that you still have some sort of non-screen safe area on the

00:31:56   edges to grab the thing. Yep. No, this looks really good. I'm it's one of those things where

00:32:02   I'm glad this exists, even though it isn't for me. And I feel kind of similar about the, uh,

00:32:08   the iPhone mini, which we'll get to in a second, but I'm glad that there is more than just big and

00:32:15   huge for iPads. I'm glad that there's something small and, and I have a couple of friends that,

00:32:22   one is a professional pilot and a couple that are going to get their private pilot's license

00:32:26   and they're losing their minds over having a small iPad that's modern because I guess,

00:32:30   you know, in the, in the context of a cockpit that it's really, really convenient to have an iPad for

00:32:35   various different things, but nevertheless, to have one that's huge is a real pain. So

00:32:40   they're really super duper excited about this. And I I'm excited too. Speaking of the iPhone mini,

00:32:44   I do wonder if Apple is, will eventually start going towards the idea of an iPad mini pro,

00:32:52   right? Cause the iPhone mini is not the iPhone mini pro. It is not a miniature version of the

00:32:57   pro iPads. It's a miniature version of the non pro pro iPhones, miniature version of the non pro

00:33:01   iPhones. Right. And so I was thinking of that for someone using it in a cockpit, one of the attributes

00:33:06   of the pro iPads is they have the super duper, very bright mini led screen. It's like more than

00:33:11   twice as bright as this thing. And if you're going to use it in a sunny cockpit of an airplane,

00:33:15   you'd probably want a screen that's brighter than this one, but you can't get it cause they don't

00:33:19   sell a pro mini with that type of thing. Um, presumably Apple knows what the market for this

00:33:24   looks like, but yeah, this has got an eight 15 and a 500 at screen, but the good pencil, but you know,

00:33:29   not promotion and all this, you know, it's kind of, you know, it's, it's a very, it's a little

00:33:33   bit better than the iPad air. Um, but they're, they're close now. They've got the same design,

00:33:37   the top end chip. You could add another hundred bucks or so to this and come up with an iPad mini

00:33:44   pro. Uh, that would actually be pretty cool, but probably for the same reason they don't make an

00:33:49   iPhone mini pro. There's just not enough demand for it. Who knows? Um, but I think that that

00:33:55   tension continues to exist in Apple's line where they will diversify in both size and features,

00:34:01   but there's always a little pocket where they say, you know what, we're not making a pro and

00:34:05   non-pro variant of what usually ends up being the small one just because we think we're diversified

00:34:09   enough. If you really want the small size, you're going to deal with compromises. Otherwise we have

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00:36:11   reinventing men's basics. Moving on, Apple Watch. We had a little bit of discussion about watchOS 8,

00:36:20   and I thought a new announcement, but maybe we knew this and I missed it. But they're adding a

00:36:25   cycling workout and fall detection, including better support, better algorithmic support for

00:36:30   e-bikes and how many calories you're burning when you're using an e-bike. They're going to have

00:36:34   memories in the photos app on watchOS 8, which is great. But what we all care about, of course,

00:36:39   is Apple Watch Series 7. I know, Marco, you were celebrating that they don't have the flat sides.

00:36:45   I still like the flat sides. Oh, thank God they didn't do the flat sides. I just want to point out,

00:36:49   but up to this point, our rumors that we went through last show were pretty much dead on for

00:36:54   everything that was announced, but here things went off the rails, or onto the rails if you're Marco.

00:36:57   Yeah, I think actually besides the screen size increase, I don't think any of the other rumors

00:37:05   about the Apple Watch came true. They were talking about possibly having more sensors.

00:37:09   They were talking about obviously the flat-sided design. And meanwhile, it looks like we have no

00:37:16   new sensors. We don't have a flat-sided design, thank God. And then the other things that were

00:37:21   changed, like the faster charging, the different bulkier MagSafe thing possibly. No one talked

00:37:27   about that at all. That was not rumored. None of that stuff was rumored. But anyway, oh, and the

00:37:32   production delay was rumored. So that's the thing. These aren't coming out until fall.

00:37:36   Yeah, before you get to the design of this thing, did they ever mention what chip is in it? I

00:37:41   searched the website and I scripted the video. So here's the thing. This is kind of a theme of this

00:37:47   whole event. They only very briefly talked about the A15. Almost every comparison they did when

00:37:54   talking about the A15 was not comparing it against the A14. It was comparing it either against a

00:38:01   two-year-old model of something else that uses the A12 or something, or they were saying it's

00:38:06   X percent faster than the leading competition, which is in the Android world. So what I'm

00:38:13   guessing here, I'm guessing the A15 is not a massive upgrade from the A14. Now that being said,

00:38:19   you know, these are still amazingly fast chips. There's tons of headroom, but this doesn't seem

00:38:24   like it's a year where the chip is taking a massive jump. And if it's not taking a massive

00:38:28   jump on the main A series chip for the phone and iPad, I think a lot of that same core design is

00:38:36   probably shared with other products, like whatever the Mac chip is gonna be this year, and like

00:38:42   the possibly the watch CPUs. And so it wouldn't surprise me if this is kind of a like a battery

00:38:48   life gaining year all around, if they just, you know, improve efficiency in a lot of areas and

00:38:53   don't necessarily spend a lot of that budget on performance. Well, the question is, does this have

00:38:59   a different chip than the Series 6? Or does it have exactly the same chip as the Series 6? Oh,

00:39:03   that's interesting. You know, that wouldn't surprise me if they've done that before,

00:39:07   where they've repeated the same chip in two watch models, I believe. And not the Series 1 and 2.

00:39:12   The same year, but I believe, didn't the 3, I think the 4 to 5 didn't change the chip or

00:39:19   something like that? I believe they've done that before. But anyway, yeah, that wouldn't surprise

00:39:23   me. But honestly, I'm shocked that I'm saying this, but the Series 6 watch has been fast enough

00:39:30   for me. It's the first time an Apple watch has ever been fast enough for me. It's the first time

00:39:35   where like the CPU speed of the watch does not appear to be holding me back for the most part.

00:39:41   Now what I'm doing in development, other things hold me back, like the wireless debugging setup.

00:39:46   Too soon, Marco. Too soon. We'll get to that some other day. But yeah, but it doesn't seem like,

00:39:51   in the past, the watch's own processor being so incredibly low power has really slowed me down in

00:39:56   development. But the Series 6, it finally doesn't seem to be doing that. I'm able to do all sorts of

00:40:02   stuff with SwiftUI and the interface that I think might be slow, and then I try it and it's just not.

00:40:06   So anyway, I don't think the watch necessarily needs a faster CPU. What the watch always needs,

00:40:13   always, always, always, is more efficiency. Not just to extend its own battery life,

00:40:20   sometimes it needs that, but what it mostly needs it for is, in my opinion, to enable apps to do

00:40:25   more. Everything you do on the Apple watch as a developer is heavily throttled by the system. You

00:40:31   have such incredibly low limits. Like if you use more than a certain percentage of the CPU for a

00:40:36   couple of seconds, it just kills your app. You're just out. There are so many limitations on what

00:40:40   you can do with complications and with app backgrounding and stuff that you just get no

00:40:45   time to do anything, or it'll only let you update the complication 20 times in an hour or whatever.

00:40:51   There's all these limits all over the place to ensure they can get through the day power-wise.

00:40:58   And anything that the watch can do to improve efficiency might lead to some of those limits

00:41:02   getting lifted. And so from a developer's point of view, and from all of you as a user point of view,

00:41:07   that's kind of what you should want because that changes what watch stuff can do. So we'll see what

00:41:14   happens, but if they didn't improve performance, that's not necessarily a bad thing in this

00:41:18   particular generation. - Yeah, you know, I was reasonably excited for the Series 7, and I currently

00:41:26   have a Series 6 because I'm a blatant consumer and believe in blatant consumerism when it comes to

00:41:31   this stuff. But I love my Series 6. I like it a lot. I agree with what you were saying about speed,

00:41:36   as long as you're not doing development. Pardon me while I go fetal. But nevertheless, my battery

00:41:42   life is still not stupendous, as I was whining about last episode. And so for battery life alone,

00:41:48   I was interested in maybe getting a Series 7. I am still interested, but there's nothing about it

00:41:56   that's making me go, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, yes! That's what I want in my life." And so what are the things

00:42:01   that they're trying to hang their hat on? They're trying to hang their hat on the new screen. It's

00:42:05   still a little bit bulbous, for lack of a better word. It's not the flat sides that I maintain look

00:42:11   cool, even though Marco is disgusted by them. The screen is 20% bigger than the Series 6, 50%

00:42:17   bigger than the Series 3. God help us, we're going to talk about that in a minute. It has a

00:42:22   less than 2mm border. It's 40% thinner than the Series 6. It has a wraparound effect on the--

00:42:28   Wait, hold on. The watch is not 40% thinner. I think the screen--

00:42:32   Yes, like the cover glass, the cover crystal is thinner. The watch looks like it's actually about

00:42:38   the same. I think you're right. And I think they said something about the charging thing,

00:42:43   wart, whatever, that's part of the watch. I think they said is actually a smidge bigger.

00:42:47   Blob is the official term, the charging blob. Thank you. The charging blob, TM,

00:42:51   is actually a little bit bigger. I think, check my work on that, I might be wrong.

00:42:55   But anyways, the screen has a wraparound effect on the display edges, which makes it look like

00:42:59   the display is going, like, curving a little bit, even though it isn't.

00:43:04   Yeah, I didn't understand that. So, obviously, this is not the flat design. This is the same

00:43:08   design as all the other Arpa watches. And they did the same thing they have done every year where

00:43:11   there's been a quote-unquote redesign, which is, technically speaking, every-- in car parlance,

00:43:17   every panel is different. Every body panel is different. But practically speaking, it still

00:43:21   looks like a 911, right? Like, it's the same watch, right? It is the same look, but it is

00:43:27   different. And part of that is the glass on the top of it. Like, if you look at it from the side,

00:43:32   you can see the glass because the glass itself has a little bit of a dome on it. Now, the difference

00:43:36   between-- and that has been true, I think, for all the watches. Like, if you looked at it in a

00:43:39   profile, you could see the dome of the glass or the crystal or whatever. But in the past, what that

00:43:44   has meant is, okay, there's that little dome, but the only part of that that we light up, if you

00:43:48   look at it head-on, is the flat part. And in this watch, it seems like they're trying to say, "We

00:43:53   don't just light up the flat part. We also light up the parts that curve towards the edges."

00:43:57   - I don't think that's true. So, we're recording the night of the keynote, and we don't have all

00:44:03   our facts straight. You could say that this episode is a little bit accidental, but I believe what

00:44:09   they said was that because of the way the display-- or, excuse me, not the display, because of the way

00:44:16   the, like, crystal at the top is, it refracts-- and again, that term might be wrong. I might be

00:44:22   using that incorrectly. But it refracts a little bit of the light such that it appears that it's

00:44:28   being lit up on the, like, curved portion, but it is not in actuality being lit up there. It's just

00:44:35   a-- basically an optical illusion. That was what I took from it. - I think it has to be lit up there,

00:44:39   because if you look at it head-on, you'll see there's, like, the amount that's not lit up when

00:44:44   you look at it head-on, in which case there's no, like, sort of looking from the side refraction

00:44:47   going. You're just looking at top view. There's-- the amount that's not lit up is too thin to

00:44:52   encompass the entire radius, it seems to me. Again, not having seen it in person, it's hard to tell in

00:44:56   the pictures, but it seems to me that, like, even the screen itself could continue to be flat,

00:45:01   a flat plane that lights up. But because that flat plane goes-- I don't know. I mean, they can also

00:45:07   say it's closer to the glass, too, so it couldn't be, like, you know, back-- - Well, so here's what I

00:45:11   think is going on. First of all, what we said a minute ago about it being 40% thinner is not right,

00:45:18   or at least the way I interpreted that. The thickness of the cover glass/sapphire, which they

00:45:24   call the crystal, because that's the watch term, but it's either glass or sapphire, depending on the

00:45:27   model. The thickness of that, like, as in, like, the height of it off the case, is not only not

00:45:33   thinner, it's actually thicker. They even brag about how it's actually thicker to make it

00:45:37   stronger. Now, I think-- I don't think it's sticking up as far. I think the way it got thicker is by

00:45:42   going down towards the screen. But what's 40% thinner is the width of the bezel around the

00:45:48   screen. So, like, the-- like, if you're looking at it head-on, like, the margin around the screen.

00:45:52   That is what's 40% thinner. The screen-- the crystal itself is not thinner, and in fact has

00:45:59   apparently grown downwards to basically reduce the distance between the screen and the glass. Now,

00:46:04   what Casey is saying about the way it refracts around the side is probably right.

00:46:09   Watches do this. There's actually not that many of them, but if you know about the-- is it Resense or

00:46:15   Resance? It's this high-end, oil-filled watch brand. Not all of them are oil-filled, but their

00:46:20   high-end model is. There's also-- throughout time, there's been a few other watches in the

00:46:24   watch world that have oil-filled cases. I actually own one by SIN. It's actually this wonderful,

00:46:28   old diving watch. And what's interesting about oil-filled watch cases is that there is-- the way

00:46:35   the oil in the middle of the case refracts light is different than the way air gaps do between the

00:46:40   dial and the crystal. And it basically does this. It looks just like this. The side view on the

00:46:46   Apple Watch page with the oily-looking screen, basically, if you look at it at an angle, it looks

00:46:52   like the-- in the case of the actual watch, the dial on the hands, or in the case of the Apple

00:46:58   Watch, the screen contents-- it looks like it is painted on the surface of the glass as opposed to

00:47:05   being on a screen that's a couple of millimeters below it. What I'm guessing they've done here

00:47:10   is that they did make the crystal bigger, thicker. They put it down towards the screen and eliminated

00:47:15   the gap between the screen and the crystal, most likely. That would probably create this same effect

00:47:21   when paired with a crystal with the right shape, which it looks like they have done.

00:47:25   So I'm guessing that this will, from the side-- I think it actually will look like this. It will

00:47:32   look like it goes almost edge to edge. Now, the watch face they've chosen to show this off, the

00:47:36   one with the warping numbers around the side, which honestly I think is hideous, but it does

00:47:39   show off the effect well. I think they've obviously designed this watch face to not go all the way to

00:47:46   the edge. It goes all the way to the edge of the screen, but this face is designed with a black

00:47:52   margin around the numbers as a design element that happens to coincide with the edge of the screen.

00:47:57   So it makes it look even better than it is, but I still think it's going to look pretty awesome,

00:48:03   and it's going to probably have much, much better visibility at deep angles. And if they've done

00:48:09   this trick that I think they might have done, it should, for whatever it's worth, also make it more

00:48:13   visible underwater. So my question is, if the screen continues to be a flat plane, and it goes

00:48:21   as far the edge as Apple's pictures make it seem like it goes, does that mean the screen, the light

00:48:27   up part is farther away from the surface of the crystal as well? Because again, if you have like

00:48:31   a dome shape and you have a flat piece, you can't push that flat piece against the dome shape unless

00:48:37   you start curving the edges of it, right? Well, the bottom of the crystal is presumably flat,

00:48:41   like the inside part of the crystal is flat. So it's like the crystal is filled, like it's,

00:48:46   it is a dome shape, but it is completely solid glass or sapphire or whatever, and it has a flat

00:48:50   bottom, and that's what the screen is shoved up against? Most likely, yes. All right, that makes

00:48:55   more sense. Like I've never actually like cracked one of these open or seen the iFixit thing where

00:48:59   they actually like saw the thing in half and say, "show me where the light up part is," because I'm

00:49:02   still just envisioning it as like a flat screen, but then like a, you know, hollow dome that's on

00:49:07   top of it. If it's, if it is a solid thing with a flat bottom, this makes way more sense. And yes,

00:49:12   then it totally is refracting to the side or whatever, but then when viewed head on.

00:49:16   But I mean, the main point is someone had a good tweet about this. I just grabbed the image and

00:49:19   put it on our show. It's, I guess I'll grab the, the Twitter link as well. Saying that the series

00:49:25   three, which we will get to in a moment, now looks like a CSS error on Apple's website, because you

00:49:29   see that you see the series six, which looks like an Apple watch with a big black border around it.

00:49:34   You see the series seven, which is like an Apple watch with no border. And you see the series three,

00:49:37   which is like an Apple watch. And unfortunately someone put this rectangular photo in the middle

00:49:41   of the screen somehow. And it doesn't, it doesn't look correct. It doesn't look right. And really,

00:49:47   like, I think this is the, this screen is the most important aspect of the series seven, as far as

00:49:55   I'm concerned, just because it, it finally gets to the point where I feel like you've filled the

00:50:00   watch face with screen. And now maybe you're like, I didn't feel cramped. I don't need more

00:50:04   complications. I didn't need to see more data. Even if you don't care about any of those things,

00:50:09   I think just aesthetically speaking and sort of like Johnny I've like essence of the product

00:50:14   speaking. Now it finally looks like what I would imagine they wanted it to look like from the

00:50:18   beginning. If you remember the original Apple watch designs, all the watch faces intentionally,

00:50:23   like essentially had black bodies to them. So you couldn't see that terrible edge. Like you wouldn't

00:50:28   see, Oh, I have a rounded rectangle with a non-rounded rectangle inset far into the middle

00:50:32   of it. Right. If you just make everything in the background black, cause it's OLED,

00:50:36   you don't notice that. But as soon as they got the rounded corners, I said, we're going to light up

00:50:39   the whole screen. And now finally, when you light up the whole screen, you essentially light up

00:50:44   again, judging by Apple's marketing pictures, the whole surface of the watch. And there, I think

00:50:49   you've essentially achieved what you want. And now you can vary the size of that and everything.

00:50:52   And you're not like burning any space on, you know, empty black area on the watch. And we'll

00:50:58   have to see one in person to see if this refracting effect is weird or whatever, but I really like

00:51:02   this design. I'm I think I'm kind of with Marco. I don't really care about what watches look like,

00:51:07   but I'm kind of glad that they stuck with the nine 11 design and just like, look, it looks like,

00:51:12   it looks like an Apple watch. It is slightly refined. It is better in a bunch of ways,

00:51:16   but it is still the iconic design. If and when they come out with a new design that

00:51:22   sort of radically changes from this, you know, I think it will be, I'll be happy when it happens,

00:51:29   but one more year of this design is perfectly fine with me. Cause I think this watch looks really

00:51:32   good. Yeah. I honestly like, I don't, I have yet to think of, I mean, look, I'm not an industrial

00:51:39   designer by any means, but I have yet to think of how they could give the watch straight sides

00:51:44   and have it look better than what they are, what they have already accomplished with the

00:51:48   curved sides. It was half, if it was half the thickness, it would look cool with flat

00:51:51   sides for sure. Maybe. Yeah, it would be, it would be possible. But also keep in mind the entire

00:51:57   strap ecosystem has all been designed with like this curved blobby look. Obviously half the

00:52:02   thickness is not going to be next year. It'd be like many years in the future, you know,

00:52:05   but they stick with this iconic design. It's fine. But speaking of straps, so that's another,

00:52:08   another advantage of this design. As far as I'm aware, you can still use all the existing

00:52:12   bands with these watches. Yeah, because they said, they basically, they barely changed the

00:52:17   exterior dimensions. So the exterior dimensions are effectively the same according to them. We'll

00:52:22   see how it plays out in practice. One other thing worth noting, silver as a case color is gone.

00:52:28   Like, except unless you go steel, but like the silver aluminum that used to be kind of like the

00:52:33   default color of an Apple watch. I totally missed that. Just, just like the iPad mini. No, no silver

00:52:39   in the mini, no silver in the watch. Yes. Like the, the low end products no longer have silver.

00:52:44   So what color is this? I'm looking at the picture and like, you know, there's black,

00:52:47   something that looks like silver probably isn't called silver. No, that's blue. It's starlight

00:52:52   is the closest thing, which is like a very light gold. Starlight seems like it's the new space gray

00:52:58   and that there's a thing called starlight that is a different color in every product that has that

00:53:03   color. But it all kind of looks grayish like sort of starlight looks a lot like silver. Yeah. But

00:53:10   it's like, it's like it's silver with like a little bit of pink and copper blended in.

00:53:14   Like it's really, it looks like true tone kind of went wrong from silver. It's like,

00:53:19   a lot of these things are like really testing your color receptors. I don't know. This is something

00:53:23   they tend not to do. They just, you know, for, they give you a color blindness test, especially

00:53:27   if you're a boy in school or whatever, getting your eyes tested, you know, they want to make

00:53:31   because the color blindness is more prevalent in boys than girls. And so they give you this test,

00:53:36   can you tell the difference between red and green or whatever, what numbers is it? But what they

00:53:39   don't do is can you tell like this mild fuchsia from this slightly more purpley fuchsia? Like no

00:53:47   one ever cares about those nuances. And no, I don't want to get into, do you see the same green as I

00:53:51   do, but like subtle variations in color. I think Apple's color choices with these things like

00:53:56   starlight are getting to the point where there's probably large sequences of the population that

00:53:59   literally can't tell starlight from silver. Yeah, but I, it probably, but I think it's interesting.

00:54:04   I mean, cause you know, they've, they've had these same colors, you know, the, the kind of,

00:54:08   you know, basic silver space gray, whatever, whatever that means each year, you know,

00:54:13   they've had these basic colors for a long time and it, and the fact that they've thrown silver out

00:54:18   with the low end products, I see like same thing. The iPhone 13 and 13 mini do not offer silver.

00:54:22   The pro line does, but the 13 and 13 mini do not. And so neither does the Apple watch series seven

00:54:28   and aluminum like it's or the iPad mini. Like that's, I think that's very interesting. And

00:54:33   one thing I do like about these new colors though, across all these products,

00:54:36   is that they seem to have made them more bold, especially like the red is much more red and bold.

00:54:42   More saturated, you mean right? Yeah, yeah. More saturated and a little bit darker,

00:54:47   which I think is nice because they, the, the design over the last couple of years has been pretty

00:54:54   pastel. Like I recently, I finally at some point recently saw the the new IMAX in person in an

00:55:00   Apple store and I was surprised how incredibly pastel they all were. And I honestly didn't think

00:55:08   any of the colors would be right for me if I was buying one. Well, the front of the IMAX

00:55:11   are pastel, but the back, they went bold like these watches. Like the back of the blue IMAX

00:55:16   is not powder blue. It is deep blue like this watch. Same thing with the back of the red one,

00:55:20   the back of the orange one. The fronts are all very pale and pastel, which I think was sort of

00:55:24   intentional to not be distracting. But I think the, the IMAX, like in total surface area, the

00:55:30   IMAX are also bold colors, just not on the side that you look at. Fair enough. But yeah,

00:55:35   ultimately like the colors in general look pretty good in the aluminum this year. And I think,

00:55:42   am I correct that the titanium and steel colors did not change with this generation? Yeah,

00:55:48   I'm just looking at them in the keynote where they have a lineup of, they have five watches

00:55:53   in the keynote with various colors. I almost feel like Apple is sort of on its way, but not quite

00:55:59   willing to embrace the, everything's an automotive analogy, the car thing. So everyone knows when you

00:56:05   buy a car, rarely do you buy a car and get to choose a color like purple or pink, right? They

00:56:11   all have stupid names like Starlight, right? They're all called, even the white is not called

00:56:15   white. It's called like, you know, pearl, you know, opalescent, pearl, white or some, whatever.

00:56:21   There's always some fancy name for any color. And so we've got Space Gray, which is a fanciful name.

00:56:26   We've got Starlight and we've got Pink and Purple. Why not call, why don't you call Pink and Purple

00:56:33   or something too? Oh, interestingly, by the way, the watch does not come in Space Gray anymore

00:56:36   either. It comes in Midnight, which looks like a very dark grayish blue. So it's close, like,

00:56:42   like Midnight and Starlight are close to Space Gray and Silver, but they're subtly not. Midnight

00:56:48   is darker than any Space Gray has ever been for sure. Well, in the pictures, it's, you know,

00:56:52   it's hard to tell, but they also offer something just called Blue, which is significantly lighter

00:56:57   looking than last year's Blue Series 6. So we'll see how this goes. We might have to see these in

00:57:03   person. And by the way, red ring on the, what is it called? The crown? It's red on all of them.

00:57:11   Oh, that's interesting. Even, even the non-cellular ones? Oh, I don't know. I'm just saying like the

00:57:15   Blue one has a red ring. The Silver/Starlight one has a red ring. The Navy/Midnight one has a red

00:57:22   ring. Like I would guess the product shots are just all indicating cellular like Marko was

00:57:26   alluding to. I know, but it's just not color coordinated. I feel like, yeah. And also I,

00:57:32   I mean, and I know like they have to have a ring there. It doesn't have to be red, but they have to

00:57:37   have a ring to electrically separate the middle of the middle of the crown, which is used for the

00:57:41   heart sensing and the outside of the crown. And so, so it has to be like electrically non-conductive

00:57:45   boundary between those two. But I do kind of think the red ring does not look good anymore. Like with

00:57:51   most of the colors that they offer, I think that should just be black on everything now. Like I

00:57:55   think the red doesn't look good. It looks good on the Silver one, I think. Occasionally, but like

00:58:00   if the color is neutral, if the watch color is neutral, the red accent looks good. If the watch

00:58:04   itself has a color like the Blue one, the red seems like it's competing. And the Red one, they

00:58:09   no longer sell a neutral colored watch. They do the star starlight. I feel like is neutral. I don't

00:58:14   think so. We'll see how it looks in person. I can't tell. And I look at my true tone screen here and

00:58:19   at night with weird yellow lighting, I don't know what it's doing to these colors. Yeah. We'd

00:58:23   definitely have to see these in person, but anyway, this, this is not new. The red ring thing has

00:58:26   been, I think it was the same for previous generations as well. All right. So a couple

00:58:31   of other things to mention with regard to the watch. Uh, first of all, it is available later

00:58:35   this fall, uh, which we don't know anything more than that. Uh, additionally they, they touted all

00:58:41   day battery life, which I can tell you on my series six is not really fricking true, but whatever,

00:58:46   uh, 33% faster charging. And I might have these wrong. This happened very quickly. And I was

00:58:51   trying to take notes. So, so again, check my math on this, but I believe they said it would go from

00:58:56   0% charge to 80% in 45 minutes. And it was something like eight minutes was enough to do

00:59:03   sleep tracking or something like that. Again, it was eight minutes of charging for eight hours of

00:59:07   sleep tracking. There you go. Uh, and, and it has apparently a USB C charger, which by the way,

00:59:13   Apple has already sold USB C Apple watch chargers for a long time. Just, they were, they were like,

00:59:18   they, these little short ones for traveling, which has actually been great, but no one ever

00:59:22   knew about them or bought them. Um, but this is, this is presumably a USB power delivery charger,

00:59:26   which is probably going to be faster wattage. Right. And so, uh, I don't know. It was unclear

00:59:31   to me if the puck portion was different. I thought they implied that it was, but again,

00:59:36   maybe I got that wrong. So it'll charge faster, which is nice. I mean, I wouldn't say that I

00:59:40   personally feel like it charges too slowly in the series six, but certainly faster charging is

00:59:45   better, especially if you're trying to do sleep tracking. Um, if they said they're going to have

00:59:49   a lot of new colors for existing bands, they did explicitly say that it will be compatible with

00:59:53   existing bands and Hey, guess what, Marco, great news. If you're looking for a watch,

00:59:58   that's super cheap, your favorite, the series three is only 200 bucks. Oh my God. How is this

01:00:05   still a thing? I mean, I know we're going to have to complain about the series three, but the se is

01:00:09   still the same too, right? Yeah. That's the thing. Like, so last year when the series three, which

01:00:14   was super old last year, uh, when they, when they dropped that price to one 99 and they introduced

01:00:21   the se at two 79 last year, everybody said, okay, well it sucks that we have to have the series three

01:00:27   for one more year, but at least next year, which is now they'll drop the series three finally.

01:00:33   And then they'll drop the price of the se from two 79 to one 99. Well, guess what happened this year?

01:00:39   Nothing. They kept the series three at one 99 and they kept the se at two 79. No change.

01:00:48   To be clear, this is not like the iPhone se where there was a new phone called iPhone se that was

01:00:52   better than the old phone call iPhone se. Doesn't that, isn't that what they did in the phone?

01:00:55   Right. And yeah, and the Apple watch se is basically a series five minus the always on screen,

01:01:00   like hardware wise, it's, it's effectively that it's like a lower end. Oh, and I think minus the

01:01:05   EKG support as well. So it's like, it's effectively like a, like a, a feature cut series five to make

01:01:10   it more like the series four, but with the series five guts. Um, so it's not, the se is, is a totally

01:01:16   fine watch. Um, and, but there's no reason like it, the se was seemingly built to be inexpensive.

01:01:23   So obviously the longterm plan I hope is to do exactly what we expected to happen today,

01:01:29   which was drop it to 200 bucks and call and get rid of the three and call it a day and keep it in

01:01:34   line for awhile. But that didn't happen today for unknown and unclear reasons. I'm so sorry.

01:01:41   And the series three, the reason why we're upset, it's not because like, oh, we're making fun of

01:01:45   old things. It's because the series three is not a good product in 2021. It also wasn't a good

01:01:51   product in 2020. Um, it was a fine product when it came out in 2017 or something. 2018 is when it

01:01:58   came out, it was fine. Um, but the series three now is very difficult for both Apple and developers

01:02:04   to support. If you remember what, there were a lot of changes from three to four, three to four is

01:02:09   when they changed to the new industrial design with the more rounded corners, the, um, you know,

01:02:13   more edge to edge screen. Um, and that added a whole bunch of, um, watch face changes that were

01:02:20   made possible by it having a much faster 64 bit processor and much more Ram and much more storage

01:02:26   space. The Apple watch series three experience of ownership today is terrible. Apple watch series

01:02:31   three owners. Like you have to like unload your watch to do a software update because there's not

01:02:37   enough space on a series three to download and install a software update. Like that's,

01:02:41   that's how bad the experience is. The series three, it cannot use any of the modern watch faces.

01:02:46   It cannot use color complications, anything that includes the word infographic and it's

01:02:49   watch face is not available on that watch. There's not enough Ram to do anything. And

01:02:53   the 38 millimeter size, the entry level size, uh, which personally a separate discussion is like

01:03:01   Apple hasn't made a watch that size since then. And so for people who need or want a smaller watch,

01:03:08   the 40 millimeter one that's existed since then is good. That's the one I wear, but, uh, it's

01:03:13   certainly bigger. And so there is, you know, they made everything bigger and never really refilled

01:03:18   a small one. But anyway, as a developer supporting that screen size is very, very hard because it's

01:03:24   way smaller, way more cramped than the 40 millimeter watch screen space wise. Because

01:03:30   not only did the watch itself get bigger when it went from 38 to 40, but the screen margin

01:03:35   got way smaller. And so you get a way bigger screen with the 40 millimeter series four, five,

01:03:40   and six and se than you do with the series three. So keeping around the series three is not just

01:03:45   like, Oh, the next one up is 20% faster. Like the jump from three to four was a huge jump in both

01:03:52   hardware specs of just, you know, CPU and Ram, as well as the practical effect of having to try to

01:03:57   support that old version, um, in, in UI design and apps and for Apple with the OS. And so the fact

01:04:04   that they're selling it now still means that watchOS eight not only couldn't drop it cause

01:04:09   they were selling it last year, but this also means that watchOS nine next year probably can't

01:04:14   drop support for the series three either. And neither can any of us who run apps for it. And

01:04:18   that sucks for both Apple and all developers out there. And frankly, everyone who buys one of these

01:04:23   watches today, because it's a terrible product to be buying new in 2021, if you still have a series

01:04:29   three and it still works for you great, but to be buying it new in 2021 and to expect it to be an

01:04:35   okay experience two or three years from now, let alone even just now, I think it's setting people

01:04:42   up for failure and for crappy experiences and a crappy opinion of Apple. And that's, this is a

01:04:47   product that's so old and so low end by today's standards. They shouldn't be selling it at all.

01:04:53   And if they can't sell the Apple watch SE for a cheaper price, I still think they should still

01:04:58   stop selling the series three because it is not a good product to be selling right now.

01:05:02   You know, I agree with basically everything you said, but I would hope, and I would guess that if

01:05:10   they're still going to sell this seemingly ancient watch that hopefully they would do something on

01:05:17   their end to make the experience less crummy. Like maybe they would do some optimizations in the OS

01:05:23   to make it faster. Maybe they would make the OS smaller. So you don't have to unload everything

01:05:27   on your watch in order to do a software update. I, again, I'm not really arguing with anything

01:05:32   you're saying. I can only hope and assume that there has been work put in to make it better,

01:05:38   but who really knows? And I, and I still would assume that I've been working on old products

01:05:44   like that. I mean, I, what I would pitch for the people listening to this is the, the SE is only

01:05:48   80 bucks more, right? So just buy a knockoff band from Amazon for way less money than Apple charges

01:05:54   and save money for an extra month and just get the SE it's like a market was already outlined. It's

01:06:01   so much better product than the series three and the prices are close enough that you should just

01:06:05   wait a little longer, get a cheap band from Amazon and get the SE instead. Yeah. Cause it,

01:06:10   not only is it so much better in lots of ways, it will also last longer because it doesn't have

01:06:16   such ancient hardware. Like for 80 bucks more, you get, I think two or three year old better

01:06:22   hardware than what like it's, it's a pretty big jump in hardware specs and it's way nicer to use

01:06:27   cause it's so much faster and has the more modern screen supports all the more modern watch faces

01:06:31   and complications and everything else. So it's, it's just so much better on those ways. Plus it

01:06:36   will last you longer in software support and performance. All right. Well, I'm sorry everyone

01:06:41   about series three, but you know, here we are. They did a little bit with Jay Blahnik with regard

01:06:46   to fitness plus I've been using fitness plus a fair bit over the last few months and I really

01:06:51   like it a lot. It's certainly not for everyone, but I quite like it. Um, it's joining 15 new

01:06:56   countries later this fall. They will continue to do workouts only in English or at least that's what

01:07:00   they implied, but they will subtitle in six languages. Uh, there will, there will be new

01:07:05   Pilates workouts, new guided meditations. Uh, there will be workouts to quote, get you ready for snow

01:07:11   season quote. And then they, they did something which was probably the smarter thing to do,

01:07:17   but it is not what I wanted them to do. They are now going to do group workouts and they

01:07:22   specifically said it is powered by SharePlay, which is delayed. Uh, but they said you can

01:07:27   work out with up to 32 people at once and do this remotely. Unfortunately they made no mention of

01:07:35   doing anything where it's anything like I want to do, which is Aaron and I working out on the same

01:07:40   TV, you know, on doing the same workout at the same time on the same TV. That's what I want to do.

01:07:45   Uh, and they don't seem to care about that. They want you to buy your own iPad or television or

01:07:49   phone or what have you. Buy a second Apple TV, second television. It's like having two X boxes in

01:07:53   the house and playing Halo. Exactly. So I still think this is neat and I know a lot of people

01:07:58   that don't do Apple Fitness Plus workouts, but do like other kinds of workouts like Beachbody

01:08:02   workouts while simultaneously on zoom or teams or what have you to like cheer each other on and so

01:08:08   on and so forth. That's not personally for me, but I know a lot of people that do it. And so I think

01:08:13   this is a very good idea. I think it's a, it's a clever use of SharePlay. Unfortunately it doesn't

01:08:17   fix the problem that I have, but you know, you can't win them all. We are brought to you this

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01:10:10   At about 1.35, so about 35 minutes into the show, we got the iPhone. This is presented by

01:10:18   Kai-An Drance. We start with the iPhone 13. It has a smaller notch with the front-facing camera

01:10:24   mounted way to the left. According to Twitter, although the notch is not as wide, it may be

01:10:31   taller, question mark? It's hard to tell from the photo. Someone needs to find whatever the specs

01:10:36   are they give to case makers or screen protector makers, whatever. It's plausible. If it is taller,

01:10:41   it's taller by a very, very tiny amount, maybe a fraction of a millimeter. It's just interesting

01:10:45   if they did actually end up making taller. It doesn't really make that much of a difference,

01:10:49   though. I didn't notice it being taller. When I ran the Xcode simulator right before the show,

01:10:54   I did notice it being narrower, like you can see more in the status bar area,

01:10:58   but I don't think it's meaningfully, if any, taller. I was kind of surprised that they'd

01:11:03   mentioned that it was narrower in the keynote because it's the type of thing that Apple

01:11:07   sometimes just doesn't mention. It's just zoom you'll notice because they don't want to draw

01:11:10   attention to the notch, but they did. They said, "Hey, it's a narrower notch. Isn't that great?"

01:11:13   The colors on this, I'm kind of jumping ahead a little bit. The colors, I'm really digging on the

01:11:19   colors. They have a nice rose goldy pinky one. The blue, I don't remember the actual terms for

01:11:26   the colors, but the blue looks really, really nice. Is it just blue? It's called pink, blue,

01:11:31   midnight, and starlight, just like last time it said space green, silver, midnight, and starlight.

01:11:34   So yeah, pink, blue, midnight, starlight, and product red.

01:11:37   And wow, is that product red, really freaking red.

01:11:40   That red looks awesome.

01:11:42   It does look good. I'm being told from Jelly that it's Sierra blue. Was that the pro?

01:11:45   Only the pro is being called Sierra blue. The regular Mini and 13 are just being called blue.

01:11:52   Gotcha. Okay.

01:11:53   For some reason.

01:11:54   Anyways, the two lenses on the camera are diagonal instead of vertically oriented.

01:12:02   Which I think looks better. One question about the camera thing, and we'll talk more about this

01:12:06   with the pros, is the little plateau that they're on bigger? And do they stick out more overall

01:12:11   from the phone? I couldn't quite tell with the non-pro models. Certainly, we'll get to the pro

01:12:19   later, but when they showed the pro, they leaned way into how giant the camera plateau is. They're

01:12:26   like, "Look, this is just going to be what we're talking about the whole time." The way they shot

01:12:30   it with the video, almost like it was a mountain that they were approaching. I think the camera

01:12:36   area on these phones is going to look massive on pretty much all of them, especially the pros.

01:12:42   And I think they're just leaning way into that and just saying, "Yeah, you know what?

01:12:45   This is why we're all here, isn't it? You don't care that we made the CPU faster. You don't care

01:12:50   that we have new colors. You care about the camera, right? Well, here, we're going to give you

01:12:54   the camera. Really, really big."

01:12:56   I mean, you would have thought from the intro video where they're doing CG flybys of the phone,

01:13:01   and again, this is more true of the pro, you would have thought that they were introducing a new

01:13:04   camera because it was like all the flybys were flying around the camera. It's like, "Oh, and by

01:13:07   the way, there's a phone attached to this camera." I mean, isn't that kind of the case?

01:13:12   Yes, seriously.

01:13:13   A little bit. The camera is super important, but I mean, mostly because we already know this.

01:13:16   Well, especially this year. It seemed like this year also, most of the improvements this year

01:13:22   to the iPhone seem to be camera improvements. It seems like the improvements to the rest of

01:13:26   the product line are not nearly as significant.

01:13:29   Well, they're harder to demo. I mean, we'll get to promotion in a little bit for the pros,

01:13:32   but you can't really demo that in a 30-frame-per-second video on the web.

01:13:36   Speaking of the small notch, I'm looking at the video where they actually show a...

01:13:40   It's not a screen protector. They're trying to say like, "Oh, and whatever the... What do they

01:13:44   call the thing on top of the screen? Do they call it a crystal? Whatever." The protective layer.

01:13:47   Oh, shoot. The ceramic shield, I believe is what they call it.

01:13:50   So they show that sort of like landing on the phone, but it looks a lot like a screen

01:13:54   projector does. And you'll notice in the ceramic shield, there's a little cutout for the earpiece

01:13:59   speaker that, as you mentioned in the last show, is shoved way to the top. So that is apparently

01:14:04   where the speaker is. It is very close to the top of this phone. And so I would... And part of the

01:14:10   reason I'm asking about the camera bump, as I was saying last week, "Oh, be careful if you buy a case

01:14:13   that has a lip over it because the lip might partially cover that speaker." And it's very easy

01:14:17   to accidentally blunt the sound from these tiny speakers if you cover any part of them, right?

01:14:22   But if the camera plateau on the back is different in any way, like if it's larger or smaller or

01:14:30   positioned differently, that means you're not going to be sharing cases with the 12. And so

01:14:34   presumably if you have a dedicated 13 case, hopefully the case manufacturers are smart

01:14:38   enough not to cover the speaker. One would hope. So sticking with the 13 non-pro, there's also an

01:14:45   iPhone 13 mini, which appears, as far as I know, to be identical other than size to the 13, which

01:14:51   is great. They specifically said, "The competition is still playing catch-up from two years ago with

01:14:56   regard to the A15." And speaking of the A15, this was presented by Hope Giles, six-core, two high

01:15:03   performance for efficiency, a four-core GPU, a 16-core neural engine, which will roll 15.8

01:15:10   trillion operations per second. And then it has two times the system cache. Now, my memory stinks,

01:15:17   but wasn't one of the things we decided about, maybe it was the M1, maybe it was the A14,

01:15:21   was that part of the reason it was so damn fast is because it had a tremendous amount of system cache?

01:15:26   Or am I making that up? No, that's correct. I think it depends also like what level. It's like,

01:15:31   is this L2? Is this L3? I don't know. But most of the people who know more about this stuff,

01:15:36   who've analyzed like what makes the M1 so fast, having a lot of cache on chip,

01:15:42   a lot of the performance has been attributed to that. So if they're doubling one of the caches

01:15:49   on the chip, that's a pretty significant thing. Well, they got more cores. The main thing that

01:15:55   makes these A-chip series chips fast is they can get instructions from, they can get data

01:16:01   instructions from memory very efficiently because it's high bandwidth, and they can dispatch a bunch

01:16:05   of them simultaneously. I forget how wide the dispatch unit is, but it was like wider than

01:16:12   Intel chips because for Intel chips for the x86 going more than, I forget what the number is,

01:16:16   I'm sorry, I'm getting this wrong. Maybe it's like 60 coders or something. There's no point in

01:16:20   getting more of them just because of the dependencies and the variable instruction size,

01:16:23   whereas Apple's A series chips and the M series chips can get tons of data and instructions and

01:16:29   send them all through the cores at once. It can keep the engine fed because usually what slows

01:16:33   down chips is not like, oh, this chip isn't fast enough to do a computation. There's nothing for

01:16:37   it to do. I'm an adder. I'm ready to add two numbers together. Who's got two numbers for

01:16:40   me to add? And it's like, ah, sorry. There's not that many instructions that we can pull and decode

01:16:45   and shove down into you. So you're starved a little bit because we've got a data dependency and

01:16:48   reorder buffers and all that other stuff. So having Apple's architecture and its instruction

01:16:53   set and everything is tailored to be able to essentially get more stuff. If you think of like

01:16:58   meat going through a grinding machine, they can get more stuff in there and just send it through.

01:17:02   And so you've got more cores and it's not, you know, it's not 40 cores, but six is more than,

01:17:07   you know, six is more than I had last year, right? You need to keep them fed. And if you want to keep

01:17:12   them fed more cores also means an increase in the amount of cash. Now, what they said, it's two

01:17:16   times the amount of cash, which is way larger increase than the increase in the core count.

01:17:22   But the core count alone probably means that you want to have more cash just so, uh, your, you know,

01:17:27   your extra cores aren't fighting for cash space with the, you know, with the core, same number

01:17:31   of courses you had last year. So, um, the, the, the eight 15, and also I saw a lot of stuff,

01:17:37   rumors about the 15 and thermal throttling and everything. And, you know, every one of these

01:17:41   phone ships thermal throttle because they're in a phone and there's no fan and they get hot playing

01:17:45   games and so on and so forth. But as we get higher and higher end chips, unless we have, uh, you know,

01:17:51   and this is a shrink, right? So last year was seven nanometers, right? And this is five.

01:17:55   I think the eight 14 and the M one were also five. I had first heard that, but I think on

01:18:03   confirmation, I think that it's actually not a shrink. Well, anyway, but when you have something

01:18:07   like this, where you're cranking up the core count, uh, you can't just run all those all the

01:18:11   time. Cause you'll heat alone. There's going to be a problem. So the name of the game is always,

01:18:16   you have these facilities available for you for burst performance, but then you chill back out

01:18:20   and you go in your efficiency course and stuff like that. And so, um, this, this a 15 is probably

01:18:28   capable of draining a battery faster, which is why these phones have bigger batteries, like actually

01:18:33   physically bigger batteries, um, which, uh, you know, hopefully give us, you know, we'll talk

01:18:38   about the battery life plans in a little bit, but if you cranked up everything on these, like you

01:18:41   played a game that they used all the GPU cores and all the CPU cores, they will produce a huge

01:18:45   amount of heat and suck down a huge amount of power. Um, but if you're not playing a game,

01:18:50   that horsepower is there just waiting for you in tiny little bursts, but most of the time to be

01:18:55   able to make it through the day, you're not even close to tapping into them. That's also where the

01:18:59   caching comes in handy, which is like, Oh, just, we have data, a data set that can fit in cash and

01:19:04   we will nibble away at it with our efficiency cores and everything will be chill. Oh, but by the way,

01:19:09   we do actually have to put a physically larger battery in these things because if we do crank

01:19:13   up all the machinery we've put in them, uh, we will eat power. So you'll be doomed. Yeah. So I

01:19:19   think it's kind of weird where they do with the, we keep on like the S generation, but like where

01:19:23   they don't change the outside case, it's more or less looks the same, you know, even if the camera

01:19:28   bumps change slightly, but they do change the internals and Apple made this point in the

01:19:32   presentation. It's not like basically internals and like mildly tweak them. If you look at what's

01:19:36   inside this phone, it really doesn't have any bearing on what was inside the previous phone.

01:19:41   Right. It's a new motherboard is new battery. It's new camera system. Like it's inside is all

01:19:46   new stuff on the outside. I know it looks the same, but inside it might as well be an entirely

01:19:51   different phone. So don't just think of this as like, Oh, it's just like the, it's just like the

01:19:57   12, but a little bit better. I mean, that's kind of true, but it's not like they took the 12 and

01:20:02   like replace one small component. This is an all new phone on the inside. It's just that on the

01:20:06   outside, it looks the same. So the, and I'll also say like the 13, like the 12, this is the, this

01:20:14   is the phone to get, right? If you don't care about the pro features, which you honestly,

01:20:17   you probably shouldn't, despite what Apple said in their market materials, like just then a little

01:20:21   bit. And despite what we're going to talk about in just a second, the 13, it has the matte finish

01:20:29   aluminum. That's a lot of people like better than the finish on the pro ones. I think it's

01:20:33   slightly lighter. It has the same system on the chip as the, the supposed pro one. It has one

01:20:40   fewer camera. So like, it doesn't have the same system on chip as the pro and the pro one has

01:20:45   more GPU cores. It has the pro has five and the mini and 13 have, have four. So it's not a huge

01:20:52   difference. I wonder if that's a, you know, it has five, but one of them is, one of them is dead or

01:20:56   whatever, but probably, but anyway, like you won't, that won't make a difference in your life. I

01:21:01   promise you like this is that this, this thing that this change they made with the 12, basically

01:21:06   making the 12, you know, not feel like a step down from the 12 pro is so smart. And this,

01:21:13   these phones are so good. Uh, I, you know, I, if I was getting on, which I'm not, I, you know, I,

01:21:19   I would get the pro because I'm silly, right. But I'm so glad this phone exists. And I'm so glad

01:21:24   that this is the one without any qualifiers is just iPhone 13. If you want to store and you get

01:21:28   the iPhone 13, you will come away with a really good phone. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm very happy with this

01:21:35   product this year. Yeah. Some real time follow up by the way. Um, the a 14 was also, uh, five

01:21:41   nanometers, uh, she's like the 15 and the 14 was also, um, two performance cores and four efficiency

01:21:47   cores. Uh, so generally it doesn't, Oh, and it was also four quarters of the GPU. So same as this,

01:21:54   uh, except for the pro phones. Oh, I thought they had added course. No, they didn't. It's so the,

01:21:59   the, the, um, you know, the basic metrics, you know, of the iPhone or the, the 15 processor of

01:22:05   like how many cores it has, what process it's manufactured on. Those are all matching still

01:22:10   from the 14. So I'm sure it is better, but again, I, I think this, this further supports that this

01:22:16   might not be that much of a processor jump this year. It might be, you know, possibly like

01:22:21   single digit percentage faster in certain things, you know, maybe like, you know, 10 or 15% at best

01:22:26   and certain things. But we're not talking about a massive thing here. Now they did the, you know,

01:22:30   the, the non CPU parts of the system on a chip. They did a whole bunch of stuff there with like

01:22:36   video encoders and decoders and stuff like that. This is the neural engine, the 16 core neural

01:22:41   engine. Is that an increasing chorus? Maybe? No, it's not 16 cores in the a 14. So I mean,

01:22:47   the cores are probably different, but I don't know if they're that different.

01:22:50   This definitely explains the battery life claims later because yeah, they did put a bigger battery

01:22:54   in there, but if they were, it's all right. So that's, so forget about all that stuff with the

01:22:57   more chorus. It's just plain old, they put a bigger battery in the thing. Yeah. It's,

01:23:00   it seems like that, you know, they've, they've done some stuff. Obviously we'll see, you know,

01:23:04   as we get these things in our hands eventually and people do some testing, we'll see like what's

01:23:08   actually better about it relative to the a 14. But again, I would expect this is a very small

01:23:14   year for the chip and a big year in other areas like the camera, but the chip is not a reason to

01:23:19   buy these phones right now. So I do wonder if the M two, sorry to talk about max stuff, but if the

01:23:24   M two is going to use a 15 cores, how much of a difference it will make, like how much of it,

01:23:29   how much of an upgrade over the M one will the M two be? If it, if it also has the same, if it

01:23:34   has the same number of courses, the M one, in other words, if you just take the M one, more or

01:23:38   less the same core counts everywhere, but upgrade them to the a 15 versions of those cores, would it

01:23:43   would it be a big upgrade? Cause I was, you know, or maybe the M two is on a different path. We

01:23:46   don't know when the M two is not a real thing that exists yet, but like, I'm going to be very interested

01:23:52   to see the benchmarks. Like you mentioned before that Apple was always comparing to

01:23:55   their competitors or, you know, the three-year-old chip that's in the cheap iPad or whatever.

01:24:01   And we dismissed that as like, Oh, it's, it's not interesting for you to compare the competitors,

01:24:08   but it's only because we all know the competitors suck compared to chips. Like it's a, it's a

01:24:12   quote unquote, unfair, uninformative comparison was like, yeah, but not Apple chips suck. That's

01:24:18   not telling me anything. What I want to know is how much faster are you than the previous best

01:24:22   Apple thing? And if that number is not big enough, I'm going to be disappointed or whatever, but

01:24:27   you know, the a 15 is not a slow chip. Presumably it is faster than the a 14. Even if all of the

01:24:34   components have the same number of counts percentage wise kind of with Marco, that I

01:24:39   would be shocked if anything is more than 15% faster, even in artificial benchmarks. But

01:24:43   that's, that's honestly plenty. Um, what people want from their phone is I is not like I wish the

01:24:50   CPU is faster. It's they want the battery last longer and it seems like they have solved that

01:24:53   problem by including a bigger battery. It seems so now we should talk about the 13 camera, not the

01:24:59   pro, but the 13 camera, the wide camera, which is there like standard camera is quote, the biggest

01:25:05   sensor we've ever put in our dual camera system. Quote, it allows 50% more light. It's F 1.6.

01:25:12   It has the sensor shift stabilization, uh, that was coming off the, uh, 12 max. Is that right?

01:25:19   Correct. Okay. Uh, and it was unclear to me which lenses on which, on which phones I almost said,

01:25:25   which cameras, which lenses on which phones, uh, have the stabilization, but at least the wide or

01:25:31   standard camera on the 13 definitely does the ultra wide. Uh, they said it's going to be a lot

01:25:38   better. And then they introduced cinematic mode for video, which I don't know. I'm happy to do a

01:25:45   chief summarizer and chief summary of this, but if you guys got a better read on this, on the

01:25:49   technical details of this, I'm happy to step aside and let you handle it. Yeah. I think from what

01:25:53   I've been able to surmise, it's, that's what we talked about in the rumors last episode, like,

01:25:56   oh, imagine portrait mode, but instead of it being done for photograph done for video, and it seems

01:26:02   similar to that, right? So it is apparently capturing depth information along with the video.

01:26:08   And then once you have that depth information, you can, after the fact, after you've recorded

01:26:14   the video, decide which things you want it to blur, because it understands what is in front

01:26:19   of what, because it has depth information. Uh, and the stuff that they show, they showed like

01:26:24   the rack focus and you know, the focusing on different things, right? Obviously you can do

01:26:29   that while you're recording, but then even you can change it after the fact, but it's, it's not,

01:26:32   it's not like focusing like you would by twisting lens or whatever it is doing the portrait mode,

01:26:38   blur business where, because it understands the depth of the photo, the depth of the video in some

01:26:43   way it can blur and it has the same, I would assume exactly the same weaknesses, although

01:26:47   maybe a better for year over year in terms of finding the edges of the hair and ears and,

01:26:52   you know, the little triangle between your elbow and your body when you put your hands on your

01:26:56   hips and all, all the problems that portrait mode has had of trying to figure stuff out,

01:27:00   presumably powered by LIDAR now, well, not LIDAR on these ones, I guess, but on the Pro it has

01:27:04   LIDAR. Um, but like, I mean, it gets better every year at not blurring off people's ears and stuff,

01:27:10   but still I don't expect miracles out of this. And the final thing that I was kind of disappointed

01:27:15   to hear is, although it makes sense, you know, previously we were doing portrait mode,

01:27:18   you take a picture and it does the depth information and you know, blurs and so on and so

01:27:21   forth. Now it's got to do that in video. Isn't that so much harder? It is. Uh, and that is probably

01:27:27   why at least on the 13, I don't know, I think on the 13 pro as well, this thing cinematic mode

01:27:33   is limited to 1080 P 30 frames per second. Oh yeah. That's a bummer. It's on the, it's on the

01:27:39   iPhone 13 pro specs page. That's it. Right. So no 4k, no 120 frames per second, nothing like that.

01:27:45   And it's presumably because that's the rated, which it can, you know, handle gathering the

01:27:50   depth information, right? Cause I mean, I guess it needs to render it in frame as well. I'm not

01:27:55   sure what the limiting factor is, whether it's, I, we can't collect that information in more than

01:27:58   30 frames per second, or we can't render in real time. The effect that we need to, we can't do the

01:28:04   blur in real time, uh, based on the depth information. But anyway, that's a pretty big

01:28:08   limitation that shows that this feature is really pushing the limits of the tech they have in these,

01:28:14   in these phones. Yeah. And honestly like the, the pick, the, the example they showed,

01:28:20   I don't, I think it looks weird. Like it is. It doesn't mean like I, even the one that they

01:28:26   showed like before they said, and that's the, we actually shot that video that you just saw with

01:28:30   it. Even that I, I, when, when the, when the focus changes from something in the foreground

01:28:36   to something in the background, the way it changes looks weird to me. Like it, it looks both

01:28:43   too fast of a change and it looks like it kind of passes the point where it should go and then kind

01:28:47   of pops back. I think it's kind of doing that on purpose to make it seem like, oh, a human is,

01:28:52   a human is twisting a lens or being a focus puller. I think a focus puller wouldn't screw that up,

01:28:56   but like a regular non-professional human twisting the lens of a camera to manually change focus,

01:29:02   it's very easy to overshoot and then come back a little bit. But yeah, I, so it looks more like

01:29:08   focus hunting. Like when a camera's doing contrast, no, like, no, that's what they call it when

01:29:13   cameras do contrast autofocus and like it like passes the optimal point and backs off back to the

01:29:18   best, best, the optimal point. It looked like that. And so it not only did it look weird,

01:29:23   but even like, again, like even the rate at which it was changing, it looked like a mistake,

01:29:29   not like, and it looked unnatural. Like, I don't know. To me, like maybe I'm just picky about this

01:29:33   kind of stuff. Cause I'm, I don't even look, I don't know anything about video. I've never pulled

01:29:38   focus, whatever that means. I don't like, I don't know anything about making videos, but I know when

01:29:44   something looks right and doesn't look right. And it didn't look right to me even beyond blurring

01:29:48   off people's hair. Yeah. It's not, it's not quite the same as the optical focusing, although they

01:29:52   do the best they can with the depth information. If you notice the scene they did, it was like

01:29:55   people in kind of like a dark mansion indoors, which the sort of darkish background probably

01:30:00   hides the sins of the edge finding algorithm. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's like when

01:30:05   you do special effects and you make it all dark, because if it was a sunny day, you'd see how bad

01:30:09   your CG is back in, you know, back in the day. So I, I think they're doing the best they can with the,

01:30:16   the stuff that's available to them. But yeah, I, with the hunting, like they tried to show like,

01:30:22   look, our phone will figure out like, Oh, when you hold the thing up really close to the camera,

01:30:27   it will focus on that. And when you put it down, it will focus on the thing behind it. That's the

01:30:30   thing that quote unquote, real cameras like YouTube reviews or whatever, like the, the new, the, the,

01:30:36   what is it? The a seven S three or I don't get this. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Anyway,

01:30:42   that's a feature of those cameras, but those cameras are actually changing focus as in a big,

01:30:48   you know, thing with glass and it is twisting and changing, right? That's what it's actually doing,

01:30:53   but it does it in response to the, Hey, if I hold up this product outstretched into my arm,

01:30:57   my YouTuber camera will focus on it. But then when I put the part back down on the, on the table,

01:31:02   it will focus on my face again. That's what the iPhone is doing. Well, it's not changing focus.

01:31:06   It is just blurring stuff out based on depth information that it's gathering, which is a neat

01:31:10   trick, but still not quite what people want out of their cameras. And I guess we'll, this isn't,

01:31:19   this isn't the thing where they had Catherine, Catherine Bigelow come out, right? So I guess

01:31:22   we'll talk about that later, but, um, but anyway, it's cool that it can do this at all and improve

01:31:27   cameras are appreciated and the iPhone does shoot really good video, but I think, you know,

01:31:34   bringing portrait mode to video, I have the same sort of position on it as I have on portrait,

01:31:38   which is, it's not a feature that I find interesting, but I'm not in the majority

01:31:42   because I see a lot of people use portrait mode for like all the pictures and they love it. So

01:31:46   I think, you know, people are not as picky as, as Marco and I,

01:31:51   I think it looks interesting. I don't know if I would use it very often,

01:31:53   especially because I would want the higher fidelity video, but I think it's cool. And

01:31:58   presumably next year we will get the higher fidelity video, but we'll see.

01:32:02   I like who said battery life is better. The mini gets one and a half more hours, supposedly the 13

01:32:07   gets two and a half more hours. Uh, it uses smart data like LA like this year's phones, or I'm sorry,

01:32:14   the 2020 edition phones do. So it'll, it'll only use LTE when 5g is necessary. Uh, they made a

01:32:19   point of, uh, Hey, this uses MagSafe, including a new leather wallet that includes find my,

01:32:25   so when it slides off because it's only connected by magnets, then you can find it,

01:32:29   which I thought was quite funny. This is not the solution to the problem with this product. Oh,

01:32:33   we have a wallet product that can actually connects to the back of your phone with a magnet.

01:32:37   And guess what? It's pretty easy to knock it off. And no one wants to lose their wallet. How can

01:32:40   we solve this problem? Let's think everybody. What can we do? Oh, I know let's put a thing in it to

01:32:47   let people find it after you know, make it so it doesn't get lost. You know how it won't get lost.

01:32:52   If you make an actual wallet case that wraps around your entire phone, do lots of people who

01:32:56   have wallet cases for their phone constantly say, Oh no, the wallet case fell off my phone again.

01:33:00   And I lost my wallet. No, it never falls off. It's like, they're on there like a death grip.

01:33:04   It's a pain to get your phone out of them because it wraps around the edges of the entire phone and

01:33:09   it becomes, Oh, this wallet product. Like it amazes me that someone had this meaning. It's

01:33:14   like, I know how we can solve this. We've got these amazing, what is it? What are those things

01:33:17   called that you find your bike with Marco? I've already forgotten air tax. We've got this amazing

01:33:22   air tag tech. What have you put an air tag in our overpriced magnetic wallet thing that way when it,

01:33:26   when it accidentally falls off, people might find it. No, no Apple stop. Leave it. Like what are

01:33:32   they doing over there? Oh God. It's hurts me to think about it's it's it's interesting. And it

01:33:38   can't be an air tag because there's no battery spot. So I don't know whatever they're doing,

01:33:42   whatever technology they're doing, that's not the solution. Like making it easier to find a lot

01:33:46   after I lose it. I don't want to lose it. I don't want it to fall off the back of my phone.

01:33:49   It's a bad product. It's funny. So 13 mini 699, 13, 799. They said that you can get up to $700

01:33:57   off if you trade in a quote qualifying quote iPhone, they doubled the default storage

01:34:02   capacity from 64 gigs to 128, which is great. And you can get a half terabyte, which is pretty cool.

01:34:07   And you forgot to mention the 5g more bands and more places. This is as close as we got to any

01:34:11   kind of mild confirmation of the idea that if there are bands for that used to be used for

01:34:16   satellite communication that were reallocated to 5g and the now those new modems can use them.

01:34:20   I don't know if that's related to this, but they did say more bands and importantly, they didn't

01:34:26   say anything about satellite. So if you, in case you're wondering if the new iPhones have any

01:34:29   satellite stuff, they do not. Yeah. They probably would have mentioned that. Yeah, I would think

01:34:33   so. I phoned 13 pro this is a, what I'm going to be getting, I think because I again believe

01:34:39   in rampant consumerism. So there are three cameras just like before there. Before you get to that,

01:34:45   do the, do the weight stuff because now it's the time to talk about weights. Oh, okay. They're all

01:34:49   slightly heavier than last year. Exactly. Like not, not just the pros, but they're all a little

01:34:54   bit heavier. And I assume that's like bigger battery and battery is pretty dense and heavy

01:34:59   part of it. I don't, I don't know where the weight is. Now in the grand scheme of things, we're

01:35:02   talking like, you know, 10, 20 grams, right? But they are getting heavier in the previous years.

01:35:07   Phones weren't particularly light. Like they feel big and dense. It's the type of thing that once

01:35:13   you get the phone and it becomes your phone, you just get used to it and you don't notice it

01:35:16   anymore. But if you do this every year, if you have like a 10, 15 gram increase every year,

01:35:21   eventually you have some kind of problems. I don't think they're in the problems on yet,

01:35:24   but just FYI, these are a tiny little bit heavier across the board. All the phones like the,

01:35:28   the 13 is about 10 grams heavier than the 12 was the 13 pro is about like 13, 14 grams heavier

01:35:35   than the 12 pro was like that's, that's the range these things are in. So, you know, that, that,

01:35:40   and then I guess we can talk about the camera bump, which is the next thing that is not heavier,

01:35:44   but larger on the 13 pro. Yeah. So the cameras, um, oh, actually we should also talk about colors

01:35:52   very quickly. We've got Sierra blue as previously mentioned, which I think looks freaking good.

01:35:57   It's a very, very light blue. I really liked the midnight blue of my 12 pro, but I think this looks

01:36:01   excellent as well. Uh, so Sierra blue, silver, golden graphite, and actually think the graphite

01:36:06   looks pretty good too. It's a lighter gray than like one of the space grays or blacks or whatever

01:36:11   the black du jour. Not that you'll ever see a case because you're going to have a case on this.

01:36:14   You're damn right. I'm going to have a case. You can get a clear case, I guess. Although actually

01:36:19   that said, uh, I forgive me, I forget who it was in the chat, but somebody in the chat was pointing

01:36:22   out that with Apple care plus, if you purchase it today or later, so this is no good for my Apple

01:36:29   care plus that I purchased a year ago, but if you purchase Apple care plus today or later, a back

01:36:34   glass replacement is 30 bucks instead of a hundred, which is news to me. That is pretty good. And

01:36:42   it's making me wonder if I should go caseless case of this again, but we'll argue about that another

01:36:46   time because 30 bucks is not that bad. But I think, especially when their cases are like 50,

01:36:51   60, 70 bucks, but whatever. I think you're right that I think I will go, I will put a case on this

01:36:56   because I'm trying to learn from my mistakes of two consecutive years I should add. But anyway,

01:37:01   the Sierra blue looks darn good, which I unfortunately will never see.

01:37:04   It does look really good. I'm curious with the Sierra blue. Um, if you, if you recall the way

01:37:10   Jaws was describing, he, he, he mentioned that there's like special ceramic particles that are

01:37:15   in like just the, just the Sierra blue color. Like there's something special about that coating

01:37:20   or paint or whatever it is like there's something special about that that is different from the

01:37:24   others in its makeup besides just the color that it is. So I'm curious if it will actually look

01:37:29   noticeably different or if it just looks like a light blue case. I'm also curious, you know, one,

01:37:33   one of the major downsides of last year's pro line was just how incredibly fingerprinting those,

01:37:40   those steel case bands would get. And on the dark blue phone, you saw every single fingerprint that

01:37:45   ever touched that thing. So maybe by making the blue lighter and by putting magic particles in

01:37:50   the finish or something, maybe that makes it less fingerprinting. Oh, that's very good magic

01:37:55   particles. I like that. Um, actually before we get to the, I keep trying to bring up the cameras,

01:37:58   but before we get there, um, I should also note that we have the finally arrival of the high,

01:38:07   uh, frame rate display. We get a 120 Hertz promotion display. This is something that I

01:38:12   personally have not felt like I'm missing out on. I don't even feel like I noticed that that much

01:38:17   my iPad pro truth be told, but maybe I'm just not discerning enough one way or another. I think it's

01:38:22   great to have it. I wonder in hope that the variable refresh rate that certainly comes from

01:38:28   these displays, if maybe that helps with efficiency and battery life, because they were saying, you

01:38:32   know, Hey, when we don't need 60 Hertz, which is the default on older phones, we'll just refresh

01:38:37   it, you know, 10 Hertz or whatever the case may be. 10 was the minimum instead of the watch. The

01:38:41   watch does what one Hertz. I believe that's right. Interesting. I mean, obviously we didn't get the

01:38:44   always on screen on these phones either, so maybe 10 Hertz is sufficient, but it's interesting. They

01:38:48   didn't crank it all the way down to one. Yeah. I'm sure there's some electrical reason for that,

01:38:53   but I mean, I'm sure it's going, you know, like everything else with weird OLED power saving tricks,

01:38:57   it's going to probably depend a lot on what you are doing on the phone. Like this might save a

01:39:01   lot if you, if you like, you know, just have the phone sitting on a table with the screen on that

01:39:06   you like left it on for awhile. Just like reading Twitter when you're not scrolling, that's 10 Hertz.

01:39:11   That's true. Yeah. You know, cause like, you know, you might think like, Oh, I'm constantly touching

01:39:15   my phone, but you, you know, you probably like scroll it and then stop for even, even you're

01:39:19   stopping for a quarter second. Yeah. As far as the computer is concerned, it's like, like, you know,

01:39:24   billions of CPU cycles and dozens or hundreds of potential screen refreshes for all you read that

01:39:30   one tweet. So right. Exactly. I mean, that's like, like an overcast, that's how smart speed works.

01:39:33   It doesn't work by cutting out long pauses only it cuts out all the pauses or reduces them,

01:39:40   you know, proportionally, but like it even small pauses in the middle of words might be long enough

01:39:45   for it to trim down a little bit. And you know, like, and you don't realize how much it actually

01:39:49   saves because you don't think of words as having silences inside of them, but they do. And similar

01:39:55   to this, like, you know, I think you're right on that. Like as you're scrolling through something,

01:39:59   you know, you scroll, stop, scroll, stop, scroll, stop. And all those stops, you can save time

01:40:04   there. You can save frames there and all that will add up, you know, probably not to massive battery

01:40:09   gains, but some battery gain. I did want to mention the screens on both the pro and the regular

01:40:16   iPhone 13 have gotten significantly brighter. The max brightness is up. They're, they're both up to

01:40:21   see the 13 and mini are up to, I believe 800 nits sustained brightness and the max and the regular

01:40:28   pro are up to a thousand nits sustained brightness. And then they each can peak up to 1200 for for HDR

01:40:33   stuff. For HDR. I've actually occasionally watch television shows on my phone because I'm

01:40:39   downstairs and too lazy to go get the iPad or whatever. It's a really good screen. So let's go

01:40:43   go. Good. It's got good blacks. Like, you know, and if you, if the show you're watching is HDR,

01:40:47   it shows off pretty well. So make that even better. Like, yeah, this is a good screen.

01:40:52   All right. The camera system, it is the biggest camera advancement ever, supposedly it's a camera.

01:40:59   Yeah. I mean, that's speaking of you going caseless. I don't know how this thing was going,

01:41:04   is going to sit on the table without a case, because if you look at it from the profile and

01:41:08   they showed it in the keynote, so there's a little plateau that is like, Oh, it's like the back glass

01:41:14   of your phone puckers up a little bit. Right? So that's the plateau. Then on top of the plateau,

01:41:18   you've got the silver discs that define the cameras. Then poking out of the silver discs,

01:41:23   you have the black discs and all of those things, the plateau, it looks like the silver and the

01:41:27   black. They're all slightly bigger than they used to be. And so you add them all together and you get

01:41:31   a mighty camera bump, which makes me think like, so I saw a YouTube video, like iPhone 14 rumors,

01:41:38   and like, Oh, flush cameras in the back of the iPhone 14. Like really? We're going to go from

01:41:43   the biggest camera bump that we've ever had at an iPhone in one generation to flat. Maybe. I mean,

01:41:48   Hey, it's a generational leap. Like that's what we do. But anyway, this is a big camera bump and I

01:41:53   like it affects not just how it's, how this camera, how this phone would feel if you put it on a table

01:41:58   without a case on it. Right. But it also affects the cases that are designed for this because they

01:42:04   also have to have an even bigger and more prominent lip if they want, when you put it down on the

01:42:09   table for the case, the contact, the table, and not the lenses of your cameras. Right.

01:42:14   And gone are the days where like the thickness of the case would be sufficient to like, to make the

01:42:23   bottom surface of the phone flat. Like I suppose you can still do that, but that would be a pretty

01:42:26   thick case. Like again, look at this in the keynote in profile, I guess I should, I should

01:42:32   have done some like millimeter measurement to just figure like, uh, what, what percentage of

01:42:36   the thickness of the body of the phone is the camera bump. It looks like more than half, right.

01:42:43   It is very big. Um, and I think honestly, this is the correct trade-off for this device because

01:42:49   people love to take pictures with their phone. And if you can make this camera better by all means,

01:42:54   make it thicker. I'm just saying that this is, I feel like it's more, it's more of an issue in the,

01:42:59   not in the thickness of the design, but when you look at the phone from the back,

01:43:02   uh, it looks to me like the actual size of the rounded rectangle that contains the three camera

01:43:08   lenses is also bigger than it was. It looks like at this point, it is more than half. Like it's,

01:43:14   it's starting to look disproportionate. It's starting to look kind of like that idea that

01:43:19   you're going to put the cameras in the upper left corner of the phone. It's not in the upper left

01:43:23   corner anymore. It's just taking over the whole top of the phone. And so it's like, maybe should

01:43:28   we, should we center this? Should we think about not doing them in like a triangle design? Should

01:43:32   they be in a line? Should we just take up the whole top third of the phone? I'm really interested

01:43:38   to see what the next, like the iPhone 14, the next physical design of the phone does, because I think

01:43:43   we have exhausted this design of reserve the corner of the back of the phone for the camera.

01:43:50   It has outgrown the corner. It is now it's taking over. It's like all those parody shots where they

01:43:54   show like a hundred little cameras on the back of the phone. And again, I don't think that's the

01:43:58   wrong decision. Lots of other phones from other manufacturers do this. They essentially dedicate

01:44:01   the entire top half or a third of the thing, or they have a big line of cameras that go

01:44:06   horizontally vertically. Like this is a problem that every smartphone manufacturer is facing.

01:44:12   Apple is just not quite ready to face the music. So they have put out what I think is a little bit,

01:44:17   a little bit of an unbalanced design for the pro phone. And then like the bump is a little bit too

01:44:24   thick for this design and the plateau is a little bit too big and the cases make it look a little bit

01:44:31   unbalanced. I'm sure no one will really care about this because all people care about is that it

01:44:36   takes better pictures and this thing looks like it does. I just think we are, we are at the end

01:44:40   of this evolutionary stage and it's time to try something else next year. Yeah, I don't disagree.

01:44:47   However, I am really excited about this new camera system. I am really stoked for the 3x optical zoom

01:44:57   telephoto. I think that's going to be great. If there's anywhere that I feel like my iPhone really

01:45:02   falls down is if I'm not close to my subject. And especially when you have kids or dogs or whatever,

01:45:09   oftentimes you can't or can't quickly or conveniently get close to your subject. And so

01:45:15   to have a telephoto at all is really helpful for me anyway. And to have a 3x optical, I think is

01:45:20   going to be great. So I'm really excited about that before I move on Marco thoughts on the

01:45:24   telephoto. As somebody who has not had a more than 1x lens for the last year, I do miss the

01:45:32   telephoto. I have the same issue that like the, the limit of whether I can use my iPhone to

01:45:38   reasonably get a shot usually is not do I have enough megapixels usually the limit is do I have

01:45:45   enough reach optically like that, that is by far like literally this morning there was, I wanted to

01:45:51   take a picture of there was like a cool looking sailboat off in the distance on the water and I

01:45:56   was pretty far from it and I tried getting a picture of my iPhone and you just couldn't see it.

01:46:01   Like I had, I had to like bust out the Sony with its 90 millimeter lens and take a picture that way.

01:46:07   The 3x lens on this is 77 millimeter equivalent. That's pretty great. The only thing that gives me

01:46:16   significant pause here is that in the past, the telephoto lenses for the cameras have been

01:46:23   substantially less light gathering. They've had, you know, much higher F numbers and they gather

01:46:29   less light and therefore their pictures have tended to be duller and more noisy or more blurry

01:46:34   after processing because they, they need to amp up the ISO in order to get enough light in there.

01:46:41   And this has gotten worse in this respect. The telephoto, you know, so the, the other cameras

01:46:48   have all gotten like universally better. Like they've been, they've been great. Awesome. The

01:46:54   2x lens of most of them though is a little bit of a different story. The, the 2x, so the, the,

01:47:01   the wide, like the quote 1x, I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna use their stupid terms of

01:47:05   wide being 1x. All right. So the 1x camera last year, it was F 1.6 on the pro line.

01:47:13   And this year it's F 1.5. That's good. That's more light. The lower number means more light coming in.

01:47:19   More light coming in means it can have less noise, better colors, et cetera. Okay, good.

01:47:26   The telephoto in the 12 pro was F 2.0. That's the 2x on the 12 pro. Oh, interesting. The 12 pro max

01:47:34   had that 2.5 X camera. And that went from F 2.0 on the 2x to F 2.2 for the 2.5 X. So the 2.5 X camera

01:47:42   was actually a little bit worse of a lens in terms of how much light it let in, but it was zoomed in

01:47:46   more. The new 3x cameras are F 2.8. That's from 2.2 to 2.8. It's a big jump. So what this means

01:47:55   is that the telephoto camera, I think 2.0 to 2.8, I think is one stop or maybe one and a half stop.

01:48:02   Anyway, what that means is that the 3x lens lets in substantially less light than last year's 2x or

01:48:11   2.5 X cameras did. And so what that's likely to yield is significantly duller pictures. You're not

01:48:20   going to be able to use that lens in low light very well. What the iPhone cameras have always

01:48:26   done ever since there was more than one lens is in low light, because the like 1x camera always had

01:48:32   the best optics, in low light, even if you'd zoom into 2x, it would kick back and actually use the

01:48:37   1x camera and just digital crop out the middle and make that your 2x picture. I expect that to be the

01:48:43   case here as well, not only because it can't even use the 3x camera unless you are actually zoomed

01:48:49   into 3x so that you have more of a gap between the two. But also, the 3x camera is so optically much

01:48:56   worse than the 1x camera. It's a bigger gap this year in terms of how good those two are relative

01:49:03   to each other than there's ever been. Well, the 3x one though, you made it sound like you're gonna

01:49:08   have duller pictures, but if you're a sailboat example, if it's a sunny day, don't worry about

01:49:12   it. It will be fine. Like f/2.8 on a bright sunny day of taking a picture of a sailboat out on the

01:49:17   water, you're gonna be fine. Once you're indoors, or not even night, just indoors with indoor

01:49:23   lighting or in a dimly lit restaurant or of course anything at night, yeah, you're probably gonna be

01:49:29   hurting and it will fall back to the 1x lens. But for the applications that I imagine people

01:49:33   need optical zoom, like if not in a crowded bar at night where you need the 3x zoom probably,

01:49:38   it's going to be, "Oh, my kid is far away from me on the soccer field" or something, or "I want

01:49:43   to get a picture of that bird in the tree" or "that sailboat on the water". In those scenarios,

01:49:46   you probably have adequate light and I think this is the right trade-off. And this is generally true

01:49:50   of most zoom lenses for "real cameras". They gather less light, right? So you have some

01:49:56   750mm lens, it's not going to be f/1.2 probably, right? You're going to lose light just for the

01:50:04   lens elements alone. The size of a car. Yeah. So I think, despite going down in the light gathering

01:50:13   ability, I think it is well worth that trade-off for 3x optical zoom. I think you're probably right,

01:50:18   but I do think, like for people who get this phone, which I might be one of them, we'll see,

01:50:21   but you know, for people who get this phone, I think the lower quality of the lens on the 3x

01:50:29   will be noticeable during the lifetime of you having this phone. It might not be noticeable

01:50:33   all the time, just like the 2x camera often isn't noticeable, but that will be noticeable sometimes

01:50:37   and that is something worth pointing out. That being said, they've done so many other optical

01:50:44   upgrades on this camera system that I'm sure Casey's about to cover, but basically like,

01:50:48   I'm very excited about this camera system. And even though the 3x camera is f/2.8,

01:50:56   which scares the crap out of me in terms of what that means for noise,

01:50:58   I think the utility alone of that would be pretty great.

01:51:06   Yeah, no argument here. And so the ultra-wide lens, which is the one that is shared with the 13,

01:51:14   but it's not the standard lens. This is like the, what do they call it? 1/2x?

01:51:17   Yeah, the 0.5x lens.

01:51:19   Yep, f/1.8, and it now supports macro photography at a minimum distance of 2 centimeters,

01:51:25   which is really cool.

01:51:26   That's great.

01:51:26   Yeah, I'm really interested. I don't feel like that's something I would desire to do often,

01:51:31   but it's certainly something I would want to do from time to time and I really like.

01:51:34   You need it when taking pictures of labels or using the magnifier thing or whatever.

01:51:39   It's like when you want to take a picture of the serial number on the bottom of a mouse,

01:51:43   let's say, maybe we'll talk about that next week, and you see your phone focus hunting.

01:51:50   I'm saying like, "Oh, I can't, it's all blurry," or whatever.

01:51:52   No, they're just doing cinema mode.

01:51:55   Yeah, having something that's actually capable of focusing at macro type distances of 2 centimeters

01:52:01   solves that problem, and I really hope that the phone defaults to the ultra-wide when it realizes

01:52:06   you're trying to take a picture of something that close because that's exactly what this is great for.

01:52:09   So that's f/1.8, which is pretty freaking big in my personal opinion, but then the wide or 1x lens,

01:52:19   f/1.5, which is to my eyes, and Marco, correct me when you're ready, but that is impressive.

01:52:27   I happen to have my "big camera" here, which admittedly is not the fanciest camera in the

01:52:32   world, but I have a pretty nice prime lens on it right now, and it goes up to f/1.4,

01:52:36   and this lens was like an $800 lens or something like that.

01:52:40   So here it is, the 1x lens on the iPhone 13 Pro, f/1.5, not bad.

01:52:46   Yeah, well, to be fair, it's not directly comparable.

01:52:49   When sensor sizes are different, the optics of this are, like the way it works is different

01:52:55   depending on the sensor size, and it's less impressive to have a 1.6 aperture on a tiny...

01:53:02   When your sensor is smaller than your pinky now.

01:53:04   Yeah, exactly.

01:53:05   This is still a good thing, but it's best to compare it relative to itself,

01:53:10   like relative to previous iPhones, not to big cameras that have much bigger sensors

01:53:14   and bigger optics and everything else.

01:53:16   But this is good.

01:53:17   You know, the 12 line, the 1x camera had a 1.6 aperture, and now we have 1.5,

01:53:23   so we're a little bit better.

01:53:24   That's great.

01:53:25   And I think...

01:53:27   Is this...

01:53:27   Let me just double check here.

01:53:28   Is this actually...

01:53:29   Yeah, so this only applies to the Pro phones.

01:53:32   So last year, the camera systems between the non-Pro and Pro phones were much more similar

01:53:38   than they are this year, with the exception, you know, it didn't have the big one,

01:53:43   the big 2.5x/2x one last year, and there was only sensor shift stabilization on the Max.

01:53:52   But this year, the difference between the 13 and 13 mini and the 13 Pro and 13 Pro Max

01:53:59   is a much bigger difference in camera.

01:54:01   This is one of the reasons why I'm probably going to go Pro this year,

01:54:04   because the camera difference here is huge and noticeably and noteworthy.

01:54:09   There's no difference in the camera system this year between the Max and the midsize Pro.

01:54:17   There's no difference in the phones at all, it seems,

01:54:21   except the size of the screen and battery.

01:54:22   Like, everything else about the Max versus the regular Pro is the same this year.

01:54:27   The way God intended.

01:54:28   This is my favorite kind of year, when I don't have to have a choice between an absurdly

01:54:33   oversized phone that has like the 2.5x camera or what have you,

01:54:37   and the phone that's still probably too big, but at least manageable.

01:54:41   I genuinely am so happy when the...

01:54:44   Among the flagship models anyway, when the standard and humongous sizes are equivalent,

01:54:51   which has happened once or twice in the past, but often the ridiculously oversized phone

01:54:56   will get some new, often camera-related technology.

01:54:59   That makes me jealous, but I just can't bring myself to get the ridiculously oversized phone.

01:55:03   So I'm really happy.

01:55:04   - Last year it was what, sensor shift and the 2.5x?

01:55:06   - Correct. - That's the Max?

01:55:07   - Correct. - And so this year,

01:55:09   sensor shift made it all the way down to the 13, which is nice.

01:55:12   - Yes, the 1x camera has sensor shift now on all the phones.

01:55:14   - Yeah. - Which is great.

01:55:17   One major change, so last year the Pro, actually I think just the Pro Max had a larger sensor

01:55:24   that had larger pixels, and that's great for light gathering.

01:55:27   You want that.

01:55:28   Larger pixels means more light hits each one, and so it's a similar thing as having more light

01:55:34   coming through the lens, this helps you have lower ISOs, lets you get faster, sharper shots

01:55:39   with better contrast and less noise.

01:55:40   Great, okay.

01:55:41   So this year, the larger sensor that was in the 12 Pro Max last year, now is in all the

01:55:48   1x cameras, but the Pro cameras only this year, now their sensor got even bigger.

01:55:54   So the big sensor from last year that's now on the non-Pro models is 1.7 micrometer, I

01:56:03   believe is the unit, the little U thing, that's micrometer, right?

01:56:06   - Most people pronounce it micrometer, I believe, but yes.

01:56:09   - Oh, yeah, okay, affluent.

01:56:11   - Do I have that right?

01:56:12   No, now I'm doubting myself, maybe I'm wrong.

01:56:14   - Micrometer is a thing you use to measure.

01:56:16   - That's why I was doubting myself, you're right, okay.

01:56:18   See, I take it all back.

01:56:19   - I don't know how to say metric terms.

01:56:21   - I'm just gonna say um, because it looks like somebody just kind of drooled off the

01:56:25   end of the U.

01:56:26   Anyway, so the last year was 1.7 um pixels, and this year it's 1.9 on the Pro models.

01:56:36   So the pixels got even bigger, which means the sensor got even bigger, and this is great

01:56:40   news for image quality.

01:56:42   Again, more light hitting the pixels makes better pictures.

01:56:45   So this is great.

01:56:48   Actually, I shouldn't say pixels, they're, I don't think they're actually pixels, are

01:56:51   they?

01:56:51   Like the sensor sites?

01:56:53   Anyway, light buckets, whatever they are, they're like making those bigger and making

01:57:00   the, so the sensor's bigger, the lens aperture is wider open, like you get more light in,

01:57:05   the stabilization is better on all of them, like this is a massive camera upgrade, and

01:57:10   then to throw in a 3x lens, this is very tempting.

01:57:15   And this, the camera is what is, right now my current plan is to go Pro, even though

01:57:20   I love the mini size so much this past year, like physically, I just love the size, I love

01:57:27   the weight, but that's a huge camera upgrade, and the fact that I don't have to go all the

01:57:32   bit of the max, that I can get that huge camera upgrade in the mid-sized Pro, that's what

01:57:38   I'm gonna go for.

01:57:38   - Yep, yep, I think for me, I'm looking to get a 13 Pro in that Sierra Blue, whatever

01:57:45   it's called, it looks so good to me.

01:57:46   - Yep, same.

01:57:47   - We should very quickly mention, again, an hour and a half more battery life than the

01:57:52   12 Pro, two and a half hours more battery life than the 12 Pro Max, longest ever on

01:57:56   an iPhone, or so they claim, starting at $1,000 for the 12 Pro, $1,100 for the Pro Max, up

01:58:03   to $1,000 off with trade-in in certain cases.

01:58:05   They have a one terabyte storage option, which is not for me, but I do think is interesting.

01:58:10   Pre-order on Friday, which I've confirmed is at a reasonable hour, thank you, thank you

01:58:15   so much, that it's 8 a.m. Eastern time, which is, as we all know, the one true time zone,

01:58:21   and then it will be shipping on the 24th of September.

01:58:25   Additionally, the 12 Pro is retired.

01:58:27   It is no longer available at this time.

01:58:29   - So that one terabyte option is important for the thing that you skipped over here,

01:58:33   which is the part where they trotted out big-time Hollywood directors to show how you could

01:58:39   make movie-quality footage with these iPhones and how great it is that they're so small,

01:58:44   and you can put the camera anywhere, and so on and so forth, and they also will now shoot

01:58:50   ProRes, which is Apple's, is it uncompressed?

01:58:53   It's very large, it's less compressed.

01:58:55   That's sad, I'm not sure if it's uncompressed, but anyway, it takes up more room.

01:58:58   - I don't think anything shoots uncompressed video of anything ever, because it's so massive,

01:59:03   but ProRes, I believe, is lightly compressed, and the files are massive.

01:59:08   - Yeah, ProRes takes up a lot of room, and so they touted, and they said, what did they

01:59:11   say, faster file system, I think they said in the thing, which I'm assuming what they

01:59:16   really mean is faster file I/O, as in whatever the system on a chip connection it has to

01:59:22   the flash storage now has higher bandwidth, lower latency, basically to be able to keep

01:59:27   up with recording ProRes, did they say it could do 4K 120 frames per second ProRes,

01:59:32   I forget, no, maybe it was 4K 60?

01:59:34   - No, it says here ProRes video recording up to 4K 30.

01:59:37   - All right, anyway, the point is that's a huge amount of data, and so they need to make

01:59:41   sure you can actually write that data to the storage fast enough, and also, if you're gonna

01:59:46   be recording in that format, now suddenly the one terabyte phone starts to make some

01:59:52   sense, with the caveat that, okay, you've got a one terabyte phone, and you're able

01:59:57   to record ProRes, and I don't know what the math is of how many minutes of ProRes equals

02:00:01   how many gigabytes of video, but you could fill that phone pretty easily, and shooting

02:00:05   a movie or whatever, how are you supposed to get that one terabyte of video off of that

02:00:10   phone?

02:00:10   Through the lightning connector at USB 2.0 speeds?

02:00:14   'Cause I didn't see anything in the presentation that told me it would be fast, there's some

02:00:18   faster connections, not USB-C, there's not Thunderbolt, I guess you could use WiFi, maybe

02:00:23   5G is your fastest option to get that off that phone.

02:00:25   - Hey Casey, how good is image capture these days?

02:00:28   - Oh gosh, I only use image capture for deletion on certain stuff, I use photos to import,

02:00:35   it's a mess.

02:00:35   - So would AirDrop be the fastest?

02:00:38   - That's exactly what I was saying.

02:00:39   - The edge transfer method?

02:00:40   - Well, I think, is 5G faster than WiFi 6?

02:00:43   - Ah.

02:00:45   - Like if you're by a millimeter wave station thing?

02:00:47   - Well, but AirDrop doesn't use WiFi in infrastructure mode, doesn't it make a temporary peer-to-peer

02:00:53   connection, so at the distances that AirDrop would be working, it's probably very fast,

02:00:57   like it probably maxes out whatever that version of WiFi is.

02:01:00   - But then again, how long does it take to AirDrop, well, 800 gigs worth of video, will

02:01:06   it give up in the middle?

02:01:07   What I'm saying is that, so they brought out these big name Hollywood directors to show

02:01:11   that this phone is great and you can do all this stuff with focus and we can make these

02:01:15   little fun scenes or whatever, it's just a promotional thing.

02:01:18   But that said, people have made entire feature films only with iPhones many years ago, I

02:01:25   think Steven Soderbergh did an entire movie, which I watched, and it was fine, and you

02:01:30   would never have known the entire movie was made with an iPhone if someone hadn't told

02:01:33   you that conceit.

02:01:34   Now, it's not gonna, you know, this was many years ago, so it didn't look close to as good

02:01:39   as this footage they're showing here, but it was fine for like an indie movie that you're

02:01:43   watching, right?

02:01:44   So the idea that the iPhone is good enough to shoot a movie with is true, it's been done,

02:01:49   right?

02:01:49   But I'm not sure that their demonstration of saying like, now finally with these new

02:01:56   features in the iPhone 13 Pro, the ability to record ProRes and, you know, the various

02:02:01   video effects, this somehow changes the equation for using an iPhone to shoot movies.

02:02:08   It's exactly as possible as it has always been, this does not change the game, and this

02:02:14   phone, you know, iPhones have always been great for shooting video, and it continues

02:02:19   to be, but it is not a better professional tool.

02:02:23   I think the biggest weakness that it has is how do you get, what's the I/O, right?

02:02:28   How do you, you know, it's got a terabyte, you know, it can record ProRes, but not at

02:02:32   the maximum resolution and speed that it can shoot the other things, it's got a lot of

02:02:35   storage, but you can't get the data on and off of it.

02:02:37   So this promotion I felt like was slightly misguided and maybe misrepresenting, as like

02:02:43   now suddenly the iPhone is an amazing professional tool.

02:02:46   It's as good as it's ever been, it's a great phone for recording video, but it doesn't

02:02:50   make it, if you weren't previously considering an iPhone for shooting your movie or whatever,

02:02:58   nothing about this phone should make you change your mind.

02:03:00   - Nevertheless, I'm excited, I really honestly am.

02:03:03   - Oh yeah, and don't shoot your home movies in ProRes, please.

02:03:06   Like, you don't want that or need it.

02:03:08   - So Quinn Nelson's in the chat and he's saying that the one terabyte phone, so a terabyte,

02:03:14   if you're shooting 4K, 30 ProRes, only holds about four hours of video in a terabyte.

02:03:20   - Yeah, good grief.

02:03:22   - And then how long will it take you to get that off?

02:03:24   - Yeah, so don't shoot ProRes, don't shoot your kids.

02:03:27   Honestly, depending on what you want, aesthetically speaking, my suggestion would be that higher

02:03:32   frame rates will serve you better.

02:03:36   So yeah, pick a reasonable codec and go up to at least 60 frames per second and see how

02:03:42   that goes for you.

02:03:42   - Yeah, there's even a funny little note here on the spec page that, so ProRes video recording

02:03:47   up to 4K 30, but if you buy the smallest phone, the 128 gig, they won't even let you shoot

02:03:53   4K 30, they'll only let you shoot 1080p.

02:03:55   - That's 30 frames.

02:03:57   - In ProRes, like in other formats you can do whatever you want, but in ProRes, 'cause

02:04:00   it's so big.

02:04:01   - And the thing is, like these, we're talking about this now, right, but fast forward five

02:04:06   to 10 years, kind of like we've done with audio, the hardware will eventually catch

02:04:11   up to both the standards that we use for media and human perception, right?

02:04:17   That happened a little while ago with audio where there's no longer any demand for, we've

02:04:22   talked about this in past shows, for higher res audio formats outside of very narrow interest

02:04:27   groups, let's say.

02:04:28   - But John, I can hear the copper-coated ethernet cable differences in my DAC.

02:04:32   - Mm-hmm, it's like, I'm not even saying that we have the current correct compromise in

02:04:39   terms of bit rates of the audio that we listen to, 'cause we probably don't and Bluetooth

02:04:42   could be better and so on and so forth, but we've definitely passed the point where, definitely

02:04:48   have diminishing returns, right?

02:04:50   Video, that's not true.

02:04:51   Video, television has just recently made the switch to 4K, it's plausible that televisions,

02:04:56   just to try to sell more of them, will make a switch to 8K in the future, especially as

02:05:00   screens get cheaper at larger sizes, 8K might come worthwhile.

02:05:03   As those standards advance, so too will our technology advance.

02:05:07   Right now, our phones can't do 120 frames per second 4K pro res, right?

02:05:12   But eventually, not even a very infinite timeline, 10, 15, 20 years, video will probably taper

02:05:21   off because within the normal household, even if your entire wall is a screen, 16K is probably

02:05:27   plenty for that, right, and eventually your smartphone, assuming Moore's Law keeps going

02:05:32   for just a little bit longer, Moore's Law, your smartphone will be able to shoot 16K,

02:05:37   240 frames per second HDR, you know, with depth data captured or whatever.

02:05:42   After that happens, and storage keeps going up and up, like you get to a point where,

02:05:48   like audio, it's like, oh, you know, I wish I had a bigger phone so I could have more

02:05:52   music.

02:05:52   Most people don't think that because these phones are so huge and most people don't have

02:05:56   700,000 song collections, right?

02:05:58   We'll get there with video someday, but today is not that day.

02:06:02   Today is the day when Apple won't even let you shoot pro-is-it-time frame rate because

02:06:06   the storage isn't enough, right?

02:06:07   So, but I don't want people to think this is going to be an eternal chase.

02:06:10   You know, our visual system is only so good.

02:06:14   There's only so much we can discern, kind of like retina screens where, you know, 3X

02:06:18   retina, I can't wait until we have 20X retina.

02:06:20   No, that's pointless.

02:06:21   It's useless.

02:06:22   We can't see it, right?

02:06:24   We've got the pixels almost small enough, I think, and now it's just a matter of making

02:06:29   them use less power, making them be brighter and darker with, you know, true blacks and

02:06:32   all that other stuff, but no one is still chasing like, I would like a 7000 DPI screen.

02:06:37   It's pointless, like, and not just for old people like us, but children like anybody,

02:06:42   nobody's human.

02:06:43   The human visual system is not that good.

02:06:44   So the people who are alive today, I think, will eventually live to see audio and video,

02:06:53   you know, standards and limits and performance sort of catch up to what humans find useful.

02:06:58   And then we will shift that.

02:06:59   There are technology efforts to other things.

02:07:01   Maybe we'll shift to AR, VR or something like that or whatever.

02:07:04   But that's what I thought about looking at this of like the phone can shoot progress

02:07:07   that like, you know, right now you're what is it?

02:07:12   Red is that the camera company that makes those really expensive cameras?

02:07:14   Yep.

02:07:15   And there's like the Aria Alexa or whatever.

02:07:17   You have these cameras that cost as much as a car and they can do amazing things.

02:07:21   Then you have a phones which can do amazing things for a phone, but still not the same.

02:07:24   And eventually, not that those things will converge, but eventually the difference between

02:07:29   them won't be that one of them can capture at higher resolution or higher frame rate.

02:07:34   The difference will be like, you know, more about the quality of what it captures maybe

02:07:37   and much less about, you know, the specs, the frame rate and the size of the pixels.

02:07:44   So before we kind of wrap, I was thinking about the presentation.

02:07:50   And it was good.

02:07:52   Like, I don't think any of that anything about it was particularly remarkable to me.

02:07:57   I don't think any of the products released have me over the moon, which is fine.

02:08:01   That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it occurred to me.

02:08:04   I don't know if anyone else feels this way.

02:08:06   And I wonder if you guys feel this way.

02:08:08   It definitely felt like an S year to me.

02:08:11   It felt like, yeah, we've spec bumped everything.

02:08:13   It's better.

02:08:15   It's definitely better.

02:08:16   But I don't think that there was anything revolutionary, which is fine.

02:08:20   That's okay.

02:08:20   It doesn't have to be revolutionary every year.

02:08:22   But I was a little surprised.

02:08:24   I almost feel like if I were in charge of naming these things, not necessarily because

02:08:30   I'm trying to sell them, but because I'm trying to accurately represent what they are.

02:08:34   I feel like this is definitely a 12 Pro S or what have you, which is a terrible name,

02:08:38   if I'm honest.

02:08:39   But you know what I mean?

02:08:39   Like, it's not, I don't feel like these are dramatically different phones than what we

02:08:45   got last year, particularly in the Pro line.

02:08:48   It's a spec bump, which is fine.

02:08:50   I'm not complaining, but I don't know.

02:08:52   It's just nothing about the presentation was except, I guess, the iPad mini, come to think

02:08:58   of it.

02:08:58   But other than that, nothing about the presentation other than the iPad mini was particularly

02:09:04   like knock your socks off.

02:09:05   Do you guys have that feeling as well?

02:09:07   Let's start with Marco or am I just being a curmudgeon?

02:09:09   No, I was even just thinking as you were starting the segment, like, what would I say is the

02:09:13   biggest jump?

02:09:14   And I would say it's the cameras and the phones, but the phones taken as a whole.

02:09:20   I think you're right.

02:09:20   It is kind of quote an S year, which is I know it's that's kind of a term that people

02:09:24   throw around in a derogatory manner.

02:09:26   But I think it's kind of a fairly low S year even like normally what an S year typically

02:09:35   means is the outside of the phone looks the same, but it gets major upgrades on the inside.

02:09:40   That's usually what happens there.

02:09:43   And I don't even know if this got major upgrades on the inside necessarily.

02:09:46   I mean, we'll see.

02:09:47   Like maybe the screens are amazing because you can't tell with a high frame rate screen

02:09:51   how much that's going to affect you by watching a video presentation about it.

02:09:56   Like that's just never going to you're not going to know how it looks and feels in real

02:09:59   life.

02:09:59   So it's possible once we get these phones that the screens really are incredible.

02:10:04   But again, you're only going to get that difference on the pro line.

02:10:08   If you're not looking to buy a pro phone, I think it's actually a pretty small year

02:10:12   for you.

02:10:13   Like if you're looking at the mini or the 12 or the 13 regular, I think that's it's

02:10:18   not a big deal, I think, for those phones.

02:10:21   And if I was not going to probably jump to the pro, I wouldn't be that excited about

02:10:28   this upgrade from the 12 mini to the 13 mini.

02:10:32   But that being said, again, most people don't buy phones every year.

02:10:36   Only jerks like us do.

02:10:38   So and only two of us even, you know.

02:10:41   So, you know, I think, you know, for most people, you know, you hear the same thing

02:10:45   from all the tech podcast.

02:10:46   Well, certain things were a small upgrade this year, but it's a big upgrade from the

02:10:51   phone you have that's two or three or four years old.

02:10:53   So, you know, that's and that's how most people buy phones.

02:10:56   So it makes sense that, you know, this isn't it's not that big of a deal when it's not

02:10:59   like a big jump year.

02:11:00   But overall, this isn't a big jump year.

02:11:03   I think for the phone or the watch, the watch even seems smaller, you know, like it as like,

02:11:08   you know, how much it matters.

02:11:09   The watch seems like an even more minor upgrade update than than the phone.

02:11:13   But, you know, and part of this might be, you know, Apple's putting on a good face, but

02:11:18   they're coming out of a global pandemic that really disrupted everybody's work.

02:11:22   And they're in the middle of a severe like chip and part shortage in the industry.

02:11:26   Like, I think the reason why they bought so many A15s, I actually disagree with John.

02:11:31   I don't think it's because they're putting the A15 in a bunch of things.

02:11:33   I think it's related to the chip shortage and they just had to like place a big order

02:11:37   to, you know, handle that or navigate that in a responsible way.

02:11:41   But, you know, Apple's trying to pretend like all this stuff isn't going on and trying

02:11:45   to keep up the same product release cycle that they're like.

02:11:48   Most companies, I think, would would possibly not be able to release a phone at the same

02:11:54   time this year as they do every other year because things are so disrupted in the supply

02:11:58   chain and everything else.

02:11:59   But Apple Apple did.

02:12:00   But maybe they had to cut some stuff to, you know, because they couldn't get it done

02:12:03   in time through all the stuff we've been going through.

02:12:05   So I think that that could be part of why this is kind of a minor year.

02:12:09   And for everyone else out there, like who is, you know, kind of like meh about a lot of

02:12:15   this stuff.

02:12:15   Well, good for you.

02:12:16   If you're if none of this stuff is really that important to you, you can save some money

02:12:19   this year and not buy it.

02:12:20   No, no, no, no, no.

02:12:21   I have to no, no, I have to respectfully disagree with you.

02:12:24   If you really are disappointed with the offerings this year, but you really want to have a similarly

02:12:30   sized hole in your pocket, let me direct you first to stjude.org/atp.

02:12:34   And subsequent to that, atp.fm/join, both of which would help you feel better and put

02:12:41   that hole in your pocket that you so desperately yearn for.

02:12:43   Agreed.

02:12:44   And yeah, use create a hole in your pocket to reduce the hole in Casey's pocket.

02:12:47   But you know, so it's like overall, it looks like it's a pretty minor year, but these

02:12:55   are also really mature and kind of expensive product lines.

02:12:58   And so, you know, in the same way that most Mac upgrades year to year are not that big,

02:13:05   like, you know, whatever MacBook Pro they release one year, when you look at the one

02:13:09   they released the year after, it's usually not that different.

02:13:12   It's, you know, maybe five or 10% faster and has a couple of little like, you know,

02:13:17   nip and tuck kind of upgrades here and there like, oh, we've made this a little bit better.

02:13:22   Maybe like the speakers or the microphone are a little bit better or something like

02:13:24   that.

02:13:24   Like it's that kind of upgrade, you know, for most Macs, iPads have now gotten similarly,

02:13:30   you know, with the exception of like the mini, but like, you know, you look at the high end

02:13:33   iPads, the iPad pro has not changed that much in four years.

02:13:38   It's been, you know, I think we're reaching maturity points on these products and they're

02:13:44   getting higher in price over time.

02:13:45   And so it's natural to have longer upgrade cycles for pretty much everybody.

02:13:50   And so when we have one of these years where it's not that impressive overall, like there

02:13:57   are certain things about this that are very impressive, but like the product as a whole,

02:14:01   it's not like a massive, like, oh my God, everyone has to go out and upgrade right now.

02:14:04   But I think that's okay.

02:14:05   And I think it's inevitable.

02:14:07   So overall, to answer the actual question you asked, I think the iPad mini is the most

02:14:13   exciting upgrade compared to what it's replacing, which is funny because it's probably of all

02:14:19   the products they announced today, probably the least used one.

02:14:22   It's probably the one that the fewest people buy out of all these.

02:14:25   But the, I think the camera system on the pro phones in particular is probably the coolest

02:14:34   and most impactful upgrade to the most people.

02:14:37   So that I think, again, even though it's not that big of a deal, like in other specs of

02:14:44   the way things were upgraded or not upgraded, I think that new camera system is going to

02:14:48   be quite something.

02:14:49   So I'm very much looking forward to that.

02:14:51   Yep.

02:14:53   John?

02:14:53   I already defended the S-year stuff before, basically saying like, yeah, it's the same

02:14:58   case on the outside, but like literally everything inside it is different, totally different

02:15:01   system on a chip that's better and always, granted not by a lot, but still better, a

02:15:05   bigger battery, a totally different camera.

02:15:07   Maybe the Taptic Engine is the same, right?

02:15:09   But like, that's usually why the S-years get a bad rap because people can just see what's

02:15:13   on the outside and what's on the inside.

02:15:14   Like I wouldn't characterize it as a spec bump.

02:15:16   A spec bump would be a faster A14 or more RAM on an A14.

02:15:20   This is just all new inside and it's better in all respects, right?

02:15:23   The only thing that gives me pause this year in terms of an S-year is what I would normally

02:15:27   want out of an S-year is everything like that the non S-year was, but everything is better,

02:15:33   right?

02:15:33   So it's a new system on a chip that's better.

02:15:35   It's a new camera that's better, right?

02:15:36   There's more battery life.

02:15:38   It has a bigger battery, right?

02:15:39   Everything about it is like, you know, 5G is a good example.

02:15:43   It was the first 5G phone last year.

02:15:45   This year we can still have 5G, but there'd be less battery hungry and less heat, you

02:15:49   know, because we have better 5G modems this year.

02:15:51   That's what you want out of an S.

02:15:53   And the one thing that is disappointing from an S-year perspective this year is ironically

02:16:00   enough the camera simply because it's so much physically bigger.

02:16:03   And that doesn't strike me as an S-year thing.

02:16:05   An S-year thing would be camera stays the same size and gets better or camera actually

02:16:11   shrinks and becomes slimmer or becomes flush and gets better.

02:16:14   It's like, oh, last year we had to have such a big camera for this quality camera.

02:16:17   This year we made the bump smaller and the camera is a little bit better too.

02:16:20   They didn't do that.

02:16:20   They went the opposite direction, which is maximum increase in camera.

02:16:24   But it's just, I mean, again, I haven't seen one of these in person.

02:16:28   I don't know what it's going to be like with the cases, but it just looks, it looks a little

02:16:32   bit awkward to me.

02:16:33   And that is not something that I associate with an S-year.

02:16:35   I associate an S-year with a refinement of all the features that we had last year.

02:16:39   Like what I would expect is the non S-year to have a gargantuan camera and the S-year

02:16:43   finally figured out how to make that camera not quite as gargantuan while still giving

02:16:47   you some quality improvement.

02:16:49   And it seems like they went the other way.

02:16:50   Whereas the 12 pro camera is better than the predecessor, but not, I feel like this is

02:16:58   a bigger leap camera wise, right?

02:16:59   So I think the camera is like out of step with the S stuff.

02:17:02   This is all predicated on my notion that the camera bump is actually going to be big enough

02:17:09   to be bothersome.

02:17:10   Maybe I'm totally wrong about that.

02:17:11   And a few millimeters doesn't make a difference when we get these phones in physical hands.

02:17:15   We'll find out, but that's the only thing that gives me pause.

02:17:18   But other than that, I generally like the S-years.

02:17:21   Like I'm the cycle I'm on now is I get like the first of the new form factor, right?

02:17:25   So I got the first flat sided phone and I'm skipping this year.

02:17:28   Next year, presumably I'll get the first of whatever the next design is.

02:17:31   And in some ways, like it's exciting, you're going to get the first of the new thing, but

02:17:34   in other ways I feel like, oh, but this is going to be the one with like the most compromises

02:17:38   of this design, right?

02:17:39   It's like getting the iPhone 10, right?

02:17:41   It's the first one with face ID and everything, but they're going to refine that design and

02:17:45   improve a lot about it in the subsequent generations.

02:17:48   The first flat sided one has the 5G modem that kills your battery, right?

02:17:52   And maybe it'll be better in the next generation.

02:17:53   So we'll see.

02:17:56   But this year I'm actually kind of glad that I don't...

02:18:00   I have camera phobia.

02:18:03   I'm afraid of a camera that's that big and that awkward on the thing.

02:18:06   I will love the pictures that it takes.

02:18:08   And my wife is going to get this phone, so I will have it in the house and be able to

02:18:11   take pictures with it.

02:18:12   And I'll be back into that mode that I'm so used to, which is essentially every other

02:18:16   year, if we're somewhere and I want to take a picture, I almost feel like I need to ask

02:18:22   my wife to borrow her phone because why don't I use the best camera that we have with us?

02:18:25   We both have our iPhones.

02:18:27   I could take it on mine, but mine is, oh, it's a year old now and your camera will take

02:18:32   it better.

02:18:34   But I'm kind of glad that my camera is smaller and that my phone with a case on it sits flat

02:18:39   on the table.

02:18:40   Thanks to our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Mack Weldon, and Linode.

02:18:44   And thank you to our members who support us directly.

02:18:47   You can join at atp.fm/join.

02:18:50   We will talk to you next week.

02:18:51   [MUSIC PLAYING]

02:18:55   Now the show is over.

02:18:57   They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental.

02:19:01   Oh, it was accidental.

02:19:04   John didn't do any research.

02:19:07   Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental.

02:19:12   It was accidental.

02:19:14   And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.

02:19:21   And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.

02:19:30   So that's Casey List M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M.

02:19:34   Auntie Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-Racusa.

02:19:42   It's accidental.

02:19:43   They didn't mean to.

02:19:47   Accidental.

02:19:50   Tech podcast so long.

02:19:53   So in previous years, we have--

02:19:57   I came up with this idea a couple of years back of doing

02:19:59   an exit interview of the outgoing phone

02:20:02   right before it's replaced.

02:20:04   So we should have done it last week.

02:20:05   And frankly, we just forgot.

02:20:06   And I remembered during the edit of the show the next morning,

02:20:12   I'm like, oh, crap, we forgot to do the exit interview

02:20:14   for the iPhone 12.

02:20:15   So we decided to shove it here in the after show.

02:20:18   So we're going to give the iPhone 12 its exit interview

02:20:21   after we've already hired its replacement,

02:20:24   which is kind of unfair in certain ways.

02:20:27   But I'm curious, how are we feeling about our outbound iPhone 12s?

02:20:32   You know, I think I covered this accidentally a little bit

02:20:37   last episode.

02:20:38   And in some this episode.

02:20:39   I really like my 12 Pro.

02:20:42   I think it's been a great phone.

02:20:43   I love the midnight blue.

02:20:45   I think it's a great look.

02:20:47   Going caseless on it, as has been covered many, many times,

02:20:49   was a complete mistake.

02:20:50   And I deeply regret it.

02:20:52   I do have AppleCare+ on it, but still, I shouldn't have done that.

02:20:54   I don't mind the fingerprinty sides that you had mentioned earlier this episode.

02:20:58   They are fingerprinty.

02:21:00   I'm not denying that.

02:21:01   But it's never really bothered me like it seems to have bothered you.

02:21:04   The cameras are great.

02:21:05   The screen I maintain.

02:21:08   And again, this is probably user error, at least in part.

02:21:12   But the screen has been scratched smithereens.

02:21:15   I feel like I've been saying this last couple of years.

02:21:17   And hey, look what the common denominator is.

02:21:18   Hi.

02:21:19   But the screen I wish was not so scratchy.

02:21:23   And I wish the back was a little more durable.

02:21:25   But by and large, it's a really great phone.

02:21:28   It doesn't feel slow to me at this point.

02:21:30   I personally don't have a problem with Face ID.

02:21:34   That's probably because I'm an Apple Watch user.

02:21:36   So even if I have a mask on, the watch 80% to 90% of the time will unlock for me.

02:21:44   I really do like this phone quite a lot.

02:21:48   The notch is obviously old news.

02:21:49   Hey, getting smaller is great.

02:21:50   But I don't find that the notch is bothersome at this point.

02:21:54   I don't know.

02:21:56   I never really experienced 5G because I'm on an old enough AT&T plan that they're jerks

02:22:02   and won't give it to me, which is part of the reason why I think I might be switching

02:22:04   to Verizon soon.

02:22:05   But that's a discussion for another night.

02:22:07   I like this phone a lot.

02:22:10   It's one of my favorites.

02:22:11   I love the flat sides.

02:22:12   Even though the 11 was arguably a little more comfortable in hand aesthetically, I freaking

02:22:18   love the look of these flat sides.

02:22:20   And so, yeah, I mean, I wish it was USB-C just like I wish the 13 was USB-C just for

02:22:25   consistency's sake.

02:22:26   But by and large, I really, really, really like this phone.

02:22:28   I really think it's a great phone.

02:22:30   Yeah, I largely feel the same.

02:22:32   I don't have a lot of problems with my 12 mini.

02:22:37   The ones I do have, I think, are inherent to the mini size.

02:22:41   You know, I really wish I had the telephoto camera in retrospect.

02:22:45   Like, I do miss that.

02:22:47   It's not like an absolute deal killer, but I do miss it.

02:22:50   And I also wish the battery life was better.

02:22:55   I have improved the battery life a little bit by disabling 5G by some recommendations

02:22:58   from people.

02:22:59   It has helped a little bit, not a ton.

02:23:01   I don't know how much of a benefit it really honestly has.

02:23:05   It could just be, you know, placebo or coincidence.

02:23:08   So ultimately, what I want for my next phone is more reach on the camera system and a bigger

02:23:16   battery.

02:23:17   And that's why I think I'm going pro this year because I'll be getting that.

02:23:20   But otherwise, I actually have not had problems with the screen scratching.

02:23:25   I have dropped it a couple times on concrete and then has scratched the aluminum edge on

02:23:30   the corners here and there.

02:23:31   But otherwise, and that's my fault, obviously.

02:23:36   Otherwise, it has held up very well.

02:23:38   I haven't had any of the deep screen scratching problems that other people have had sometimes.

02:23:41   And feature wise, it's fast and it's fine.

02:23:47   If you bought an iPhone 12 or 12 mini last year and you don't really want to upgrade,

02:23:54   I don't think you're missing much by not upgrading.

02:23:56   I think the 12 mini and the 12 are still, and the 12 Pro, I think those are still great

02:24:01   phones by today's standards.

02:24:03   And they're going to continue to be great for a while.

02:24:06   So if you dropped a whole bunch of money on one last year, I don't think you need to upgrade.

02:24:10   I really don't.

02:24:11   I think upgrading here is only for jerks like us who just want the latest and greatest all

02:24:15   the time and are willing to set money on fire.

02:24:18   But otherwise--

02:24:18   - Excuse me, it's for my work.

02:24:21   - Yeah, right.

02:24:21   That's what we all say.

02:24:22   You notice how all podcasters say, I have to get this new thing so I can talk about it

02:24:28   on the show.

02:24:28   And then how much do we talk about it?

02:24:30   Like five minutes?

02:24:31   We don't have to get it.

02:24:33   We get it.

02:24:34   It's a wonderful excuse we all use to get the new shiny thing.

02:24:38   None of us have to get it for our work.

02:24:40   That's never a thing that any of us have to.

02:24:42   Because we talk about stuff we don't have all the time.

02:24:44   So obviously we don't need to get these things for our work.

02:24:48   - I needed to get the Mac Pro for my work.

02:24:50   I think we can all agree on that.

02:24:51   - You needed to get the Mac Pro for karmic justice.

02:24:54   - I talked about it for more than five minutes.

02:24:56   I talked about it for 10 years.

02:24:57   - Oh my gosh.

02:24:58   - Yeah, exactly.

02:24:58   - Ha!

02:24:59   - Yeah, but you could have, and we have and did, talk about it without buying it.

02:25:04   Before you bought it, we don't need to buy these things to talk about them.

02:25:07   We buy them because we like to and we can.

02:25:10   And that's our joy in life.

02:25:12   Other people buy expensive sweaters.

02:25:14   We buy phones every year.

02:25:16   That's what we do.

02:25:18   - People buy expensive sweaters?

02:25:20   I thought you were going to say watches.

02:25:21   It was right there, but I guess sweaters too.

02:25:25   - Yeah, people spend slash waste their money on all sorts of garbage.

02:25:30   So we do it on phones every year.

02:25:31   That's what we do.

02:25:32   And if you don't like it, well, you know, I'm sorry.

02:25:34   - So the 12 Pro that I've got, I mean, I've already talked about it.

02:25:38   I like that it has a way better camera than my two-year-old phone.

02:25:42   What did I replace it with?

02:25:43   The XS, I guess?

02:25:45   Yeah, XS.

02:25:46   This is the phone that got me off the pouch.

02:25:49   I do not use a pouch anymore.

02:25:51   I have a pouch that fits this and I was using it, well, this plus COVID, I think, really,

02:25:55   because I wasn't leaving the house ever.

02:25:57   And I only used the pouch when I left the house.

02:25:59   And eventually the pouch just found its way into deep storage.

02:26:04   And then I would leave the house and not have the pouch and just I'm off the pouch.

02:26:08   So this is not, I just put it directly in my pocket, you know, screen side facing my body,

02:26:13   as you do.

02:26:14   And it's been fine.

02:26:16   And I understand the scratchiness.

02:26:17   And I believe that the screen probably shows, I'm going to say this, the 12 Pro screen shows

02:26:24   light scratches, maybe more than some previous phones.

02:26:27   But I personally don't have anything discernible except for maybe one super light.

02:26:33   No, I can't even see it anymore.

02:26:35   Maybe it was not a really scratch.

02:26:37   Maybe it was just some smuts or something.

02:26:38   But like, my thing is pretty pristine.

02:26:40   Obviously, I take very careful with my phone or whatever.

02:26:43   But this is no pouch.

02:26:44   I'm just putting it in pockets.

02:26:45   And if there's any grit in those pockets, right.

02:26:47   So I don't know what Casey's doing other than just dropping his phone constantly and putting

02:26:50   in bags with sand and shaking it up.

02:26:52   How'd you know?

02:26:54   So I'm willing to believe that this surface, like essentially scratches more easily.

02:26:58   But I think the kinds of scratches we're talking about here are essentially cosmetic.

02:27:02   And you can mostly only see them when the screen is off or black.

02:27:07   And that there's not that they're not the type of thing that you would feel with your

02:27:10   finger that constitute actual damage.

02:27:12   So I don't I'm not I what I can say is for me, whatever trade off Apple has been making

02:27:16   with this phone, which I have dropped onto the floor multiple times.

02:27:19   Granted, it's been a wooden floor and sometimes a carpeted floor, but I have dropped it.

02:27:23   So so whatever compromise they made in terms of scratch ability versus break ability, whatever,

02:27:27   I'm happy with the compromise of this phone.

02:27:29   One thing I'm not happy and I'm happy with the flat sides.

02:27:31   But one thing I'm not happy with was their move to cases that cover the bottom lip, because

02:27:36   I think that's just a terrible idea in a phone that you swipe up from the bottom to unlock.

02:27:40   So I had to go on that little hunt that we talked about earlier in the year to find a

02:27:44   non Apple case, non Apple case that I liked that had the lip on the bottom, which probably

02:27:49   means that, you know, next year when I get my new phone again, I'm going to have gone

02:27:53   that same saga for the iPhone 14 because Apple continue to sell cases that don't have the

02:27:58   thing open on the bottom.

02:27:59   Having owned this phone for about a year with the opening on the bottom, it's been fine.

02:28:04   Nothing's wrong with it.

02:28:05   It's not like the bottom gets damaged or whatever.

02:28:06   And I like it so much better than I have the Apple Silicon case that had the lip.

02:28:10   I like it so much better swiping up from the bottom with no lip there.

02:28:14   Battery life has been fine again.

02:28:17   I don't really leave the house that much, but it's a big step up from the XS.

02:28:21   So overall, this is one of my favorite phones that I've had.

02:28:25   Like I have the previous phone that I think that I had as much affection for is this one

02:28:31   is the 7, because I felt like the 7 was kind of the pinnacle of that design, the kind of

02:28:36   logins shaped thing, the last touch ID phone, the 7 was just really perfected that form.

02:28:42   And this is the first iteration of this flat sided thing.

02:28:44   And I think it did pretty well with the setting aside those caveats.

02:28:48   So I've been happy with it.

02:28:50   I think it's great.

02:28:50   And like I said, I'm kind of glad that I don't have to have the stress over.

02:28:54   Oh, I desperately want the 13 Pro camera, but I'm afraid of the size of the bump.

02:29:00   And I don't have any of that stress because I'm just going to stick with my 12 Pro and

02:29:04   let my wife get that camera.

02:29:05   And she doesn't care about the bump because what I have to worry about for her is she

02:29:08   doesn't care about the bump because she constantly uses a battery case because her phone is just

02:29:12   a Pokemon Go console and Pokemon Go destroys your battery.

02:29:16   So her phone is useless without a giant battery case.

02:29:19   Ah, but the 13 Pro does not have a giant battery case from Apple.

02:29:22   It has that stupid stick on thing, which has not enough battery capacity to withstand the

02:29:27   Pokemon that she will do.

02:29:28   So I think she's probably going to have to end up buying a third party iPhone 13 Pro

02:29:33   battery case, which will make her phone even more gargantuan.

02:29:36   And maybe once you have that thing on it, the size of the camera bump is the least of

02:29:40   your concerns because it's just a gigantic heavy bar of soap.

02:29:43   So she'll probably be fine with it and like it.

02:29:45   And I will steal it from her to take pictures with that really awesome camera system.

02:29:48   But I am happy to wait for the 14 now.

02:29:51   [BEEPING]