00:00:00 ◼ ► Big day for me, big day for Richmond. We took down the last of the monuments on Monument Avenue.
00:00:04 ◼ ► There's an avenue that runs through Richmond called Monument Avenue. Guess what? There's a
00:00:07 ◼ ► bunch of monuments that used to be on it. Last one, Robert E. Lee, traitor, came down today.
00:00:11 ◼ ► I'm very excited about that. So no more Confederate monuments on Monument Avenue, which is very good
00:00:15 ◼ ► news. Progress. So big day, big day. We should put up new ones, because it's still called Monument
00:00:20 ◼ ► Avenue. You can put monuments there, just don't put crappy ones. No argument, absolutely no argument
00:00:26 ◼ ► at all. And if I say that, knowing that, they'll probably do sports team stuff, which is great.
00:00:30 ◼ ► I don't know. What does a hokey look like? Well, you know, as a former tour guide, as the former
00:00:38 ◼ ► president of the hokey ambassadors, thank you very much. I can tell you that a hokey is me. I'm a
00:00:46 ◼ ► hokey because I am an alumni of Virginia Tech. You sound like a hokey. Are you petitioning for a
00:00:50 ◼ ► monument? Yeah, no, I'm not petitioning for a monument for me. Although I can tell you that the
00:00:54 ◼ ► War Memorial Chapel has eight pylons above it at Virginia Tech, and the eight pylons stand for the
00:00:59 ◼ ► eight virtues of Virginia Tech, which are brotherhood, Ut Prosim, which is our Latin, which
00:01:04 ◼ ► is our school motto, which is that I may serve, leadership, loyalty, service, sacrifice, honor, and duty.
00:01:08 ◼ ► Still got it, baby! All right. You said duty. This is a very useful skill. I can walk backwards like
00:01:15 ◼ ► the best of them, let me tell you. Oh my god. I guess we can't make fun of being called hokey,
00:01:24 ◼ ► I don't live on that island. That's your island, sir. Yes, you do! You live on Long Island, oh my god.
00:01:30 ◼ ► No, I don't. It's a very different place. No, go find a map of Long Island that does not include
00:01:36 ◼ ► Fire Island. Go ahead, find me one. It's a very different place. I know, I was there this morning,
00:01:42 ◼ ► I had to drive through it. It's a very different place. I know it's hard to wrap your mind around
00:01:46 ◼ ► the idea that there's a place called Long Island that could itself have many sub-islands, and one
00:01:50 ◼ ► of which you live on, but you do indeed live on Long Island. It's not called Long Islands. I'm not
00:01:56 ◼ ► arguing that, but I'm telling you there are a bunch of islands, and they're all part of a place
00:02:00 ◼ ► called Long Island, and if you get a map of Long Island, it will include all those other little
00:02:04 ◼ ► islands. There's a bunch of islands in a place called New York, and I happen to be in New York.
00:02:08 ◼ ► No, no, no. Are you on Long Island? No, I'm on Fire Island. Yeah, that's on Long Island, right?
00:02:14 ◼ ► No, no, it's not. It's a different island. It is! Okay, different island. Here's the thing.
00:02:18 ◼ ► Strictly speaking, Marco is correct. However, however... He's not correct in any form. No,
00:02:24 ◼ ► no, no. I think colloquially or in any reasonable measure, John is correct, because yeah, you live
00:02:29 ◼ ► on Long Island. Of course you do. Like, yes, strictly speaking, it's a different island,
00:02:32 ◼ ► whatever. It's like... That's not how geography works. Like, the name of the place because it has
00:02:36 ◼ ► the word island, and it doesn't suddenly exclude other things that are islands. That's not how
00:02:40 ◼ ► geography works at all. It's just, it's just a place name. Shouldn't the person who lives here
00:02:44 ◼ ► be able to be the authority on what this is called? Tiff would agree with me because she was born
00:02:50 ◼ ► there, and she will agree. All right, I have an important question. Do we live on Long Island?
00:02:57 ◼ ► No, it's a different island. It's a different island. It has a different name. They're two
00:03:04 ◼ ► different islands, and they're islands, so they're surrounded by water, so they're distinctly
00:03:07 ◼ ► different from each other. We live adjacent to Long Island. And for the record, where are you from?
00:03:14 ◼ ► I'm from Long Island. Thank you so much. I mean, Manhattan's not Long Island. It's an island next
00:03:31 ◼ ► Did you know the Dave Matthews Band is a jam band? Hey, so anyway, something that we can all agree
00:03:38 ◼ ► on. It is September, which means it is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. And for the month of
00:03:44 ◼ ► September, the three of us who are all members of Relay FM, we try to join in with Relay and do a
00:03:51 ◼ ► lot of fundraising for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. What is St. Jude? Hey, well,
00:03:55 ◼ ► if you live in a backwards ass country like we do, you have to pay for healthcare, like a lot.
00:04:00 ◼ ► And if you have a really sick kid, that can be, well, first of all, having a sick kid is ruinous
00:04:05 ◼ ► to begin with. But if you have a kid that's been stricken with cancer, you can take them to St.
00:04:10 ◼ ► Jude. And if St. Jude treats them, not only will they treat your kid for free, they will help you
00:04:17 ◼ ► travel and pay for it. They will give you your food for free. They will do all of these amazing
00:04:22 ◼ ► things. And they will do it at no cost to you. Well, how do they do that? It's because of people
00:04:26 ◼ ► like us, listeners and hosts of this very program. And it's because of the generosity and donations
00:04:34 ◼ ► of all of you that are listening to my voice right now, that kids are getting healthy and not dying
00:04:39 ◼ ► due to childhood cancer. Treatments invented at St. Jude have helped push the overall childhood
00:04:43 ◼ ► cancer survival rate to 20, excuse me, from 20% to more than 80% since St. Jude opened. With one
00:04:50 ◼ ► in five children not surviving, St. Jude won't stop until no child dies from cancer, but they
00:04:54 ◼ ► need our support. Now, let me tell you a quick story. Last episode, a week ahead of schedule,
00:05:00 ◼ ► John decided to do his donation, which meant the two of us needed to do our donations because we
00:05:04 ◼ ► tried to do this as a unit. We each donated, well, two slackers donated $7,000 and the one true host
00:05:11 ◼ ► donated $7,001 to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. However, since then, there have been
00:05:17 ◼ ► two extremely noteworthy donations I'd like to call out. I have not heard from either of these
00:05:20 ◼ ► people, but if you would like to reach out, please reach out to me. The first was an anonymous donor
00:05:26 ◼ ► who left the message asterisk trolling asterisk Casey asterisk for asterisk the asterisk kids
00:05:31 ◼ ► asterisk who donated $10,001, which is genuinely, as much as I'm being silly right now, that is
00:05:39 ◼ ► genuinely an immense amount of money and I am extremely thankful for that. And that happened
00:05:43 ◼ ► within like 24 hours, I think, of us releasing the last show. Truly a sticker worthy amount.
00:05:49 ◼ ► Oh, absolutely. Five digits worth of stickers. Yep, absolutely. So please, I'm really being
00:05:55 ◼ ► serious. Reach out to me. caseylist.com/contact. Please reach out to me and let me know if that is
00:06:00 ◼ ► you. Send me a picture of your donation receipt or what have you. Because remember, Casey said,
00:06:05 ◼ ► like whoever the, anyone who beats are the top amount, not, you know, whatever the top amount is
00:06:10 ◼ ► at the time. So the time this was done, the top amount was $7,001. So $10,001 handily beats it.
00:06:16 ◼ ► And that means it is eligible for stickers. And anybody who beats the current top score,
00:06:21 ◼ ► according to Casey's rules this year, will get stickers if they write him. Yep, that is correct.
00:06:26 ◼ ► And then not too long after this $10,001 donation, which again, is amazing. Then apparently, not only
00:06:35 ◼ ► can humans donate, but canines can as well because Gus the dog donated $15,000. That's like eight of
00:06:51 ◼ ► asterisk a asterisk t asterisk p asterisk space ampersand ampersand. So Gus the dog, I know you
00:06:58 ◼ ► probably can't understand me, although, hey, you donated 15 grand. So you must understand more than
00:07:01 ◼ ► I expect. If you or anonymous want to send me a picture of your receipt and reach out, I will send
00:07:07 ◼ ► stickers. I don't care where you are in the world. I will find a way to get them to you. And if you're
00:07:11 ◼ ► not Gus the dog and you're not the anonymous person trolling Casey for the kids, please,
00:07:22 ◼ ► S-T-J-U-D-E.org/ATP. Marco, this is your cue to give the spiel since it is next week that we might be
00:07:29 ◼ ► having all of this become very relevant. Yes, this is look, this is the season of Apple nerds spending
00:07:35 ◼ ► absurd amounts of money on new gear, some of which we might need most of which we probably don't need.
00:07:41 ◼ ► And when we buy our new gear, we have this, you know, a purchase attachment thing that happens
00:07:49 ◼ ► as you know, this is the whole idea of like extended warranties and accessories for your new
00:07:53 ◼ ► car and the fancy floor mats all this stuff. When you buy something expensive, you're more likely
00:07:57 ◼ ► to throw away additional chunks of money on things for your expensive thing, whether it's upgrades to
00:08:02 ◼ ► the next storage size or a nice new, you know, Apple silicone or leather case, or you know,
00:08:08 ◼ ► buying the Apple care for your new phone or watch or whatever, maybe getting the steel watch,
00:08:12 ◼ ► getting a cool band for it or something like that. There's all these opportunities to not only spend
00:08:17 ◼ ► a lot of money on the thing, but spend even more money to make yourself feel even better about the
00:08:21 ◼ ► thing or make the thing accessorize in a certain way or whatever. And what I ask every year of our
00:08:26 ◼ ► listeners is, I know not all of you, not even most of you can do these amazing, you know,
00:08:33 ◼ ► multi-thousand dollar donations like that's an amazing thing. And I'm glad we have any of our
00:08:37 ◼ ► listeners who can do that. But you know, obviously I don't expect everyone to be able to do that.
00:08:41 ◼ ► I do know though, that you're all going to go out and drop like a hundred bucks for the next
00:08:48 ◼ ► storage size up, or you're going to drop 150 bucks for the next Apple care or whatever, or drop 70
00:08:54 ◼ ► bucks on a new case without even thinking about it. You're probably going to pay a hundred bucks
00:09:04 ◼ ► take that size chunk of money, if you can't do the bigger chunks of money, I understand,
00:09:08 ◼ ► but I bet you can do one of those chunks of money. Throw in a hundred bucks, throw in 70 bucks,
00:09:13 ◼ ► whatever you can do, donate that to St. Jude. It makes a huge difference. Even donations of that
00:09:19 ◼ ► size, even smaller, if that's all you can, if you can only throw in 30 bucks, fine. Do whatever you
00:09:25 ◼ ► can do, be generous if you can, because this is an amazing cause. And you know, it's hard,
00:09:32 ◼ ► sometimes it's hard to know, like what's a good charity to donate money to? Like what, you know,
00:09:35 ◼ ► where, who can really make a difference? You know, who's actually using the money well and everything?
00:09:40 ◼ ► It's really hard to beat St. Jude for the amount of impact you can have and how important it is
00:09:46 ◼ ► to people who are really in a tough spot in their life. You know, like having a child with cancer,
00:09:59 ◼ ► so many levels, I don't even have the words to describe it. So if you can help make that better
00:10:04 ◼ ► in some way, you're helping pay for treatment, you're helping people, you're helping fund research
00:10:10 ◼ ► to help more kids survive cancer. That's a huge deal to so many people. And you can just like,
00:10:16 ◼ ► crap out a donation from what you were going to pay on sales tax on your iPhone case or whatever,
00:10:24 ◼ ► So this is a really great way to spend, donate away your guilt about your Apple purchases,
00:10:31 ◼ ► by also sending a chunk of money, in addition to sending a lot of chunks of money to Apple,
00:10:38 ◼ ► that money will be put to very good use and it makes a very big impact on people's lives.
00:10:42 ◼ ► And then you can, guilt-free, get your new phone that you don't really necessarily need,
00:10:48 ◼ ► or get the steel watch because it's a little bit nicer, you know, as long as you also kicked over
00:10:52 ◼ ► similar to St. Jude, that will absolve you of your guilt. That is true. So again, stjude.org/atp,
00:11:00 ◼ ► S-T-J-U-D-E.org/atp. And just to do a quick situation report, we are at $215,674.11. That
00:11:09 ◼ ► is over a million raised in three years, within three years, which is amazing. And, hey, one of
00:11:16 ◼ ► the perks, which I will now announce since it's been made public, at $300,001, I will publish,
00:11:24 ◼ ► or maybe not publish, but at least stream via Twitch one time, the Lost Casey on Cars episode
00:11:30 ◼ ► of the Tesla Model 3 versus Tesla Model S. So get us there. We are only 75-ish, excuse me, what is
00:11:37 ◼ ► that, 85? I can't do math. It's late. $85-ish away. Let's get us there to $300,001. At St.
00:11:46 ◼ ► Jude.org/atp. Moving right along. Let's start with some follow-up. As always, I've had a request,
00:11:52 ◼ ► which I normally would absolutely ignore, but in this case, I am allowing it. An Australian
00:12:02 ◼ ► spot right now with COVID. Vaccines seem to be getting to the point that they're pretty readily
00:12:07 ◼ ► available. So would you mind just encouraging Australians to get your shot?" Hey, I would not
00:12:11 ◼ ► acquiesce to these sort of requests in any normal situation, but when it comes to vaccinations, yes,
00:12:15 ◼ ► all of you Americans, Australians, and anyone else who has a shot available, now's the time.
00:12:20 ◼ ► Maybe you could imagine, just imagine with me for a second. Close your eyes if you're not driving.
00:12:25 ◼ ► Imagine with me you're sitting there waiting to get a vaccine, not just for yourself, but for your
00:12:30 ◼ ► fellow country people. And as you're sitting there, you're using your information phone to go to
00:12:35 ◼ ► stjude.org/atp to donate to St. Jude. Imagine two birds in one stone. Does life get better than that?
00:12:42 ◼ ► So Australians, Americans, and anyone else who can, please do all the above. Moving right along,
00:12:47 ◼ ► I have some important real-time follow-up as well. Thanks to listener Nnnn in the chat for
00:12:53 ◼ ► linking to the Wikipedia article on Long Island. You'll notice that the map of Long Island colors
00:12:59 ◼ ► Long Island geographically in red. And you'll also notice if you click on that and make the map even
00:13:04 ◼ ► bigger, that Fire Island, which is one of those skinnyshirts below Long Island, is not colored in
00:13:08 ◼ ► red. So Fire Island is not part of Long Island. I'm going for a low resolution bitmap image on
00:13:15 ◼ ► Wikipedia as a deciding factor here. No, it's clearly not colored in. You could see some of the
00:13:22 ◼ ► white. Uh-huh, sure. I mean, there's also other things that aren't colored in that are also part
00:13:27 ◼ ► of Long Island, as you see those little white blobs there. I mean, those are different islands.
00:13:31 ◼ ► Uh-huh, right. To think of the absurdity of it says, "Hey, what's your favorite Long Island
00:13:36 ◼ ► beach?" And you say, "I really love Robert Mosey." You say, "Sorry, that's not a Long Island beach."
00:13:40 ◼ ► It's not. That's the absurdity of where you are right now. John, just hold on. Since we're
00:13:45 ◼ ► appealing to Wikipedia as the authority and arbiter, arbitrator, whatever. No, just hold on.
00:13:51 ◼ ► Since we are appealing to them as the adjudicator, that's what I was looking for of all these things,
00:13:58 ◼ ► "Broadly speaking, Long Island may refer both to the main island and the surrounding outer
00:14:07 ◼ ► I understand getting hung up on the word island. This is like an episode of Robot or Not,
00:14:11 ◼ ► but don't get hung up on that. It's not just the island that is long and anything that is not that
00:14:15 ◼ ► island is not Long Island. It's the name of an entire place. I mean, just look at anything having
00:14:20 ◼ ► to do with Long Island. When they put a map of Long Island, they don't remove all the little
00:14:23 ◼ ► other things around it. Those are all parts of the umbrella term Long Island. I'm sorry,
00:14:26 ◼ ► it doesn't make a lot of sense. That's just the way place names work. No, this is like,
00:14:31 ◼ ► they include that because these are the best parts of the area. So they include, it's like when real
00:14:36 ◼ ► estate listings, when you have like a good neighborhood and then the like the neighborhood
00:14:40 ◼ ► next to it, they'll call it like, you know, West Park Slope or whatever. Like they'll give like a,
00:14:44 ◼ ► like they'll try to use the name of the nicer one for the less nice one because it increases
00:14:49 ◼ ► the value of the houses there. So John, since we're going down this rabbit hole and we're just
00:14:54 ◼ ► going to keep digging, what is the city? What portion of New York City do you qualify as
00:15:00 ◼ ► the city? All New York City, all five boroughs. Okay, so it's not just Manhattan, it is all five
00:15:04 ◼ ► boroughs. But even just going by the boroughs, a lot of people are upset by the idea that a lot of
00:15:11 ◼ ► New York City is on Long Island. And I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. So when, so people in
00:15:16 ◼ ► Brooklyn, should they say that they live on Long Island? They do. That's where they live. I mean,
00:15:20 ◼ ► they live in Brooklyn too and they also live in New York City. So, so people from Brooklyn are
00:15:24 ◼ ► called, so somebody from Brooklyn, they could say they're a Long Islander? Sure. And you'd be okay
00:15:28 ◼ ► with that? Yeah, I'm surprised. I mean, but I bet they would probably say they were from Brooklyn
00:15:33 ◼ ► because there's a primacy of pride of place that, you know, the sort of a hierarchy of where you
00:15:38 ◼ ► want to say you're from, but it'd be technically accurate. I mean, they could say they're from New
00:15:41 ◼ ► York too, but that would be true. They're also from New York, but they probably wouldn't lead
00:15:45 ◼ ► with that unless they're, you know, we've gone over those before. Like when you say you're from
00:15:48 ◼ ► New York versus the United States versus Brooklyn versus Long Island. So somebody in Brooklyn
00:15:53 ◼ ► shouldn't say they're from Long Island because Brooklyn is like a nicer place name, but they
00:15:57 ◼ ► would be legitimately on the geographic feature of Long Island. So there the geographic feature
00:16:03 ◼ ► boundary matters, but when defining Fire Island, the geographic feature boundary doesn't matter.
00:16:07 ◼ ► I know I'm saying that the geography of Long Island as the thing that Casey just read is the
00:16:12 ◼ ► entire, the whole conglomeration of crap. Like I know it says island in the name and you're just
00:16:16 ◼ ► dying to make it one island. It says in quotes, the phrase Long Island may refer to that whole
00:16:21 ◼ ► area. It doesn't say it is. And it does refer to. Obviously you are referring to it, so it may,
00:16:26 ◼ ► but that doesn't make it correct. Actually, at least we can all just agree to like dump on
00:16:32 ◼ ► Staten Island, which is not part of Long Island. And really people wish it was really should be
00:16:36 ◼ ► part of New Jersey. I mean, it's, it's, if you look at the map, it's kind of ridiculous. Staten
00:16:40 ◼ ► Island is part of New York. I don't, I think Staten Island gets a lot of crap and a lot of
00:16:46 ◼ ► garbage from New York city literally. But yeah, it's kind of the, the, the outlier in many ways.
00:16:54 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week by things, the award-winning to do app. I love things. I use
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00:17:17 ◼ ► features. Things now supports markdown inside of your notes, actual markdown. This is not just some
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00:17:34 ◼ ► and project notes. I mean, things as an app is already an amazing looking app. It's beautifully
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00:17:52 ◼ ► or it's tucked away inside of like a detail or inspector pane, not so in things. In things,
00:17:57 ◼ ► your notes take center stage. When you open it to-do, you have plenty of room to write. You can
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00:18:06 ◼ ► actually use things myself. I put tons of notes on each to-do. Like if it's a link I want to refer to
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00:18:48 ◼ ► to-do app for sponsoring our show. All right, let's move on. Apple delayed controversial child
00:18:55 ◼ ► protection features after privacy outcry. This is an article from the verge. Apple has a quote,
00:19:01 ◼ ► "Last month, we announced plans for features intended to help protect children from predators
00:19:04 ◼ ► who use communication tools to recruit and exploit them and limit the spread of child sexual abuse
00:19:13 ◼ ► we have decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements
00:19:16 ◼ ► before releasing these critically important child safety features." I think that's good. I don't
00:19:21 ◼ ► have extremely strong feelings about this other than to say, "Hey, Apple, do you know what?
00:19:25 ◼ ► Sometimes doing things in public out loud is helpful. Who knew?" Maybe you should consider
00:19:32 ◼ ► it sometime. I'm kind of thankful that this has been delayed just so we can finally stop talking
00:19:38 ◼ ► about it. But also, one question, do you think this is ever going to actually ship or is this
00:19:45 ◼ ► just going to be one of those air power delays where eventually it'll just stop being talked
00:19:49 ◼ ► about and it will never… This is actually more of a cancellation, but they don't want to really
00:19:53 ◼ ► quite say that yet. I think they're going to do something, right? Just because all their competitors
00:19:58 ◼ ► and everyone else does something does a lot more than Apple does, as evidenced by how much of this
00:20:03 ◼ ► stuff they catch. So Apple has to eventually do something. Do they have to do any of the
00:20:07 ◼ ► specific things that they described here? No, but I don't think they're just going to say, "Eh,
00:20:12 ◼ ► never mind. We're fine the way we are. We don't need to do anything." So what it is that they do
00:20:17 ◼ ► eventually will be interesting. I hope one of the things they took away from this, as we discussed
00:20:22 ◼ ► on many past episodes, is that their notion of the most privacy-preserving approach to solving
00:20:29 ◼ ► this problem does not match with the opinion of their customers' notion of what is the most
00:20:34 ◼ ► privacy-preserving. I don't think, especially within the technical communities, there's any
00:20:38 ◼ ► debate about what they're doing or the specifics of it, but Apple seems to think… Everyone
00:20:42 ◼ ► agrees all about the facts, but Apple says, "And this way preserves your privacy the best." And
00:20:47 ◼ ► the customers are saying, "Doesn't feel that way to us." But at least everyone agrees on what the
00:20:52 ◼ ► thing is doing. So I think this is more of a sort of customer fit type of thing of like, "Okay,
00:21:01 ◼ ► that you feel like doesn't preserve your privacy because that's what our goal is." And so they kind
00:21:05 ◼ ► of have to figure out something that everybody can agree is privacy-preserving. Or they could…
00:21:13 ◼ ► And not really make a big deal out of it because, "Hey, did we have any stories about this when
00:21:22 ◼ ► was." They just do it and it's not a big deal and that's that. But Apple wants to do it better
00:21:28 ◼ ► in a "more privacy-preserving way" and that's kind of how they got themselves into trouble.
00:21:32 ◼ ► Yeah, but I mean, ultimately, I think the scanning on your device and therefore kind of having your
00:21:39 ◼ ► device be like a police force or surveillance force, even though it's like your hardware
00:21:45 ◼ ► that you own, I think that is one of the biggest parts that offended a lot of people. And so if
00:21:49 ◼ ► they switch to a server-side model, that would obviously preclude end-to-end encryption. But
00:22:02 ◼ ► that doesn't make any sense. But I think that's what Apple is learning is that it might not
00:22:05 ◼ ► actually make any sense, but really you are, and when it comes to things like this, you are in some
00:22:10 ◼ ► ways beholden to what customers think about it, right? Like, you know, and again, no customers
00:22:18 ◼ ► are flipping out about the fact that their phones are scanning and categorizing all their photos to
00:22:22 ◼ ► identify dogs, airplanes, you know, dinner plates, potatoes, like, you know, there's this open-ended
00:22:28 ◼ ► machine learning powered thing that is literally scanning and categorizing every single one of
00:22:33 ◼ ► their photos. And everyone's fine with that because it's missing that one little part of like,
00:22:37 ◼ ► "Oh, we'll report back when we find a picture of a dog." Like, you know, the whole thing of like,
00:22:40 ◼ ► if we find pictures of a particular politician, we'll report you. They could totally be finding
00:22:45 ◼ ► those pictures of the politician right now. The only little bit they don't have an ad is,
00:22:49 ◼ ► "Oh, by the way, if you find pictures of that politician, send a ping to the server," or
00:22:53 ◼ ► something like that, right? So all the people who are upset about, "I don't want them to build
00:22:57 ◼ ► this capability," they already did and nobody cared, right? It's just, it's… Anyway, I don't
00:23:01 ◼ ► want to rehash it all, but like, yeah, I think they, I think they need to do something and I
00:23:06 ◼ ► would actually prefer that they do enable end-to-end encryption everywhere and do something
00:23:10 ◼ ► like this tweaked such that there is like more broad agreement, as I said, with like advocacy
00:23:16 ◼ ► groups, researchers, and, you know, customers, I suppose, and whoever the others are, that before
00:23:22 ◼ ► they come out with an announcement, they've come up with something that has, has more features that
00:23:28 ◼ ► make people feel more comfortable because, you know, Apple thought they had all the features they
00:23:31 ◼ ► needed to make everybody feel comfortable and they were wrong, right? People didn't feel comfortable.
00:23:34 ◼ ► So they, I think, engaging in more dialogue with everybody who complained about this, now that they
00:23:40 ◼ ► know who all those people are, to come up with something where they can say, "Okay, if we
00:23:44 ◼ ► announce this, now all these other people who we didn't talk to at all or enough before our first
00:23:49 ◼ ► announcement, do we all agree that this is going to be better?" And I think, for example, you'd have
00:23:53 ◼ ► to pair it with end-to-end encryption because what's the point, again, what's the point of
00:23:56 ◼ ► doing this thing if you have access to everything server-side anyway? I think that kind of pitch,
00:24:00 ◼ ► which is like, from this point on, Apple literally can't look at any of your pictures, but we want to
00:24:05 ◼ ► catch these things, so we're going to use this system and it has these safeguards that are much
00:24:09 ◼ ► better than our previous safeguards and, you know, there'll be no automatic reporting and like,
00:24:13 ◼ ► I don't know, like something to make people feel comfortable. I think that is the best possible
00:24:17 ◼ ► outcome of this. I think one of the worst outcomes is for them to just get frustrated and do server-side
00:24:21 ◼ ► scanning. Even though people would mostly be okay with that, I would prefer to live in a world where
00:24:26 ◼ ► Apple can't see my photos. Yeah, I agree with that. I would be willing to make the trade of them
00:24:32 ◼ ► scanning server-side if, well, I guess I'm sorry, them scanning device-side is what I meant to say,
00:24:41 ◼ ► although not everyone necessarily would. Right, but you need, like, I think people need more
00:24:47 ◼ ► features, more stop gaps, more hedges against the, you know, false positives and stuff like that,
00:24:52 ◼ ► because what they had, what they rolled out before, like I said, if you look at it in light of the app,
00:24:56 ◼ ► their performance of the app store, it is not reassuring to you in any way that humans are
00:24:59 ◼ ► going to review it. That makes you feel like I still might get swept up in this, so there
00:25:03 ◼ ► obviously needs to be something sturdier than that to avoid false positives. Yeah, the 1Password 8
00:25:11 ◼ ► beta is still a thing. I'm still running it. I'm still not in love, but it's not actively making me
00:25:17 ◼ ► angry for the most part, but I am happy to report this is a glowing review. This is a tweet from
00:25:23 ◼ ► Dave, is it Tierre? I hope I pronounced that right. I'm sorry, Dave. He tweeted earlier today,
00:25:28 ◼ ► or it was yesterday, "By popular demand, today's update includes a cute little animation when
00:25:32 ◼ ► entering an incorrect password. I think you'll enjoy it, Casey Liss." And so this is me
00:25:35 ◼ ► kvetching about how the, in 1Password 7, the entire window would shake, you know, side to side a
00:25:41 ◼ ► little bit when you entered an incorrect password, and I use that as a silly example of what not going
00:25:46 ◼ ► native does. And so the good news is the shake is back. The bad news is it's not the whole window,
00:25:53 ◼ ► it's just the little password entry field, but nevertheless, small victories, my friends, and
00:25:57 ◼ ► actually somebody, I think it was Christian Selig of Apollo Reddit client fame, challenged Dave on
00:26:03 ◼ ► the fact that it wasn't the whole window, and there was a reasonable justification for that. That was
00:26:06 ◼ ► not technical. Just in short, they thought it was less, I guess, less loud, for lack of a better
00:26:13 ◼ ► word, to do just the input field. But anyway, progress is being made, which is good. I haven't
00:26:17 ◼ ► done any testing with some of my other complaints yet, but I can tell you I did see the little shake
00:26:21 ◼ ► earlier, which made me happy. Does this count as you being served? No, I don't think so. Well,
00:26:30 ◼ ► I'm thinking more of like the, like, you know, dance contest meeting. I don't think so. I don't
00:26:39 ◼ ► feedbacks with Apple. That's very true. Well, slow down. No, no, no. I think that's an incorrect
00:26:44 ◼ ► statement. I got a response. Right. Yeah. That's that alone. That is table stakes for most people.
00:26:51 ◼ ► And I did get that much. A timely response. And yeah, first, if like, it's the, you know,
00:26:56 ◼ ► communication pyramid we talked about on analog, right? So first level is I got a response. The
00:27:01 ◼ ► second level was it was timely. Third level was it was actually slightly f***ing relevant to what I
00:27:08 ◼ ► was trying to say. And where am I? The fourth level now? Fourth level was it actually did what
00:27:12 ◼ ► I wanted it to do. So this is like a pure freaking victory for me. I would like to point out that I
00:27:17 ◼ ► have filed two feedbacks this summer, both of them in early June and neither of them have gotten a
00:27:23 ◼ ► response. So business as usual, same as it ever was. Uh, yeah. Yeah. I moved right along home kit
00:27:30 ◼ ► camera TV, picture and picture can be enabled or disabled per camera. Which one of you was this
00:27:35 ◼ ► Marco complaining about this? Is that right? I was asking whether it was, it was a thing. I was
00:27:39 ◼ ► saying it would be annoying if it happened to me. And is that a thing that you can turn off? And
00:27:42 ◼ ► this is the answer. I was saying it was an anti feature to have your, like your homekit camera
00:27:46 ◼ ► alert you on your TV. If you couldn't turn it off because it's John is very protective of his TV
00:27:52 ◼ ► watching time. And nobody wants that you're watching a show and all of a sudden a picture
00:27:56 ◼ ► of a bloop's on top of it. I absolutely would like to know that if somebody is at my front door,
00:27:59 ◼ ► are you kidding? I would too, because I don't. So through, through two flu suit construction,
00:28:04 ◼ ► uh, we don't have a doorbell and we haven't had a doorbell for like 10 years. We do have a dog.
00:28:08 ◼ ► And so we always joke that hops. His job is to be our doorbell. The problem. And he's very good at
00:28:14 ◼ ► it. The problem is that he's only working for a certain part of the day and then he's off for the
00:28:20 ◼ ► night. You know, he stops, he's usually his shift ends around like eight or nine o'clock at night.
00:28:26 ◼ ► And so if somebody comes to the door and knocks, we don't necessarily know if we can't hear the
00:28:32 ◼ ► knock. Like if we're in another room, far away from the door and hops is off for the night, like,
00:28:36 ◼ ► you know, that's it. So something like this would actually be useful. I can't think of a time
00:28:52 ◼ ► Our camera philosophy here, and I said this last week, but just to reiterate a very important part
00:28:56 ◼ ► of my camera philosophy, when you're walking past my house, like on the public sidewalk, I don't
00:29:02 ◼ ► want you to be able to see a camera. I don't want there to be any sign that I have cameras. You
00:29:06 ◼ ► shouldn't even know that I have cameras until you are somewhere that you really shouldn't be.
00:29:11 ◼ ► Then I want my cameras to make themselves known in some way. But nothing is looking like at the
00:29:16 ◼ ► public sidewalk or at the public street. So that wouldn't be an issue unless somebody was like
00:29:25 ◼ ► Yep, that's fair. So anyway, Pankaj Rupani writes, "Activity notifications are turned off by default
00:29:30 ◼ ► on Apple TV. What they showed in the keynote was doorbell notification, which is turned on by
00:29:34 ◼ ► default and has actually come in handy when you have a movie night and you get delivery,
00:29:37 ◼ ► for example." Additionally, Jonathan Rogers writes, "The doorbell actually rings my home
00:29:42 ◼ ► pods and can identify faces using people I've ID'd in the Photos app." That's very cool. I dig that.
00:29:46 ◼ ► Yeah. Whenever like announces that, it's like, so-and-so is at the door based on facial
00:29:51 ◼ ► recognition. That's a good Apple integration of tech. And you know, announcing it through
00:29:55 ◼ ► the home pods as opposed to like, I don't know, like the little dingy thing on your wall. That's
00:30:06 ◼ ► really useful tool. One of the reasons I use VPNs is if I'm traveling and I have to use some
00:30:12 ◼ ► untrusted Wi-Fi network, like at a hotel or an airport or something, I won't do that without
00:30:17 ◼ ► a VPN because to me, even though I know a lot of my stuff is encrypted, like at the client level,
00:30:21 ◼ ► like, you know, HTTPS, I know it's on a hundred percent and there's all sorts of weird, creepy
00:30:26 ◼ ► stuff that network providers can do like at the local or ISP level that I just don't trust
00:30:36 ◼ ► Another good use of VPNs is if you want to use, say your streaming service that you're paying for
00:30:41 ◼ ► when you are traveling outside of your country. I've actually done this and I used ExpressVPN to
00:30:47 ◼ ► do it. We wanted to watch a show on Netflix while we were traveling in Mexico a couple of years back.
00:30:56 ◼ ► according to this VPN service. And I was able to watch my US subscription while I was outside of
00:31:01 ◼ ► the US and it was fantastic. This works on tons of different streaming services. ExpressVPN is by far
00:31:07 ◼ ► the best VPN to use for this. You can change your location to wherever you need to be. They have
00:31:13 ◼ ► almost a hundred different locations. You can gain access to whatever you need to get access to,
00:31:16 ◼ ► and you have blazing fast speed with ExpressVPN. There's no, you know, weird dropouts or stuttering
00:31:23 ◼ ► or buffering. You stream the full video quality and you don't even realize you're going through
00:31:26 ◼ ► a VPN. That's how good it is. And ExpressVPN is very easy to use. Their apps are just one click
00:31:31 ◼ ► to connect, super easy to use, can work on your phone, laptop, media console, smart TVs, so much
00:31:38 ◼ ► more. So when you need a VPN, choose the one that's top rated, performs well, has easy apps to use,
00:31:44 ◼ ► go with ExpressVPN. You can get an extra three months of ExpressVPN for free with a one year
00:31:50 ◼ ► package at expressvpn.com/atp. Once again, it's expressvpn.com/atp to get an extra three months
00:32:09 ◼ ► Yeah. Remember, remember this whole thing about like one side of my mouse pad, it wasn't working,
00:32:14 ◼ ► right? Yeah. Oh yeah. And I like rotated the mouse pad and people said, well, maybe it's the cord,
00:32:18 ◼ ► maybe it's the desk surface, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, maybe your mouse has gone bad.
00:32:22 ◼ ► And I did all these experiments and I was like, it just seems to be that part of the mouse pad.
00:32:27 ◼ ► And that part of the mouse pad was more worn than the other ones and had like a slightly different
00:32:30 ◼ ► sheen to it. And like, wow, it's really weird that this is a tracking. And for a while now,
00:32:34 ◼ ► I've been like, I really need to, because my mouse pad is like cut from a larger mouse pad. You know,
00:32:38 ◼ ► he carved himself from a larger spoon. I don't know if either one of you get that reference.
00:32:50 ◼ ► He carved it himself from a larger spoon. That's, I think Lenny says that. I don't remember. Anyway,
00:32:56 ◼ ► I wanted to cut myself a new mouse pad. And that, because I have another sheet of mouse pad stuff
00:33:02 ◼ ► up in the attic and I kept meaning to do it. And every time I sat down at my computer and my mouse
00:33:06 ◼ ► skipped around, I'm like, I really need to do this. So finally I got a chance to do it. I go,
00:33:10 ◼ ► I cut my new, I brought my old mouse pad and put it down on top of the new one, cut myself a new
00:33:14 ◼ ► mouse pad, brought it in, set it up, put it down on my mouse, broke up my computer, plugged
00:33:18 ◼ ► everything back in. My mouse wouldn't move at all on the new mouse pad. Cursor would not move at all.
00:33:23 ◼ ► I'm like, all right, but what's going on here? Like no motion, zero, zero motion. I was like,
00:33:29 ◼ ► how is this the mouse broken? It's not the mouse pad. Like it's just a black, you know, felt fabric,
00:33:35 ◼ ► it's mouse pad material. There's nothing wrong with it. So I went through this whole debugging
00:33:40 ◼ ► procedure. What, what, what is the debugging procedure for this? Well, I mean, not moving at
00:33:45 ◼ ► all. I was like, okay, this isn't a tracking problem. Right. And I tried it on different
00:33:49 ◼ ► surfaces, put it on the, the, you know, the other parts of the keyboard tray, put it on the desk,
00:33:53 ◼ ► put it on my leg, but it was just not moving at all. Um, and so I'm like, well, let's start
00:33:59 ◼ ► eliminating these things here. So first thing I did was I unplugged the mouse from the cord and
00:34:04 ◼ ► connected it through Bluetooth. And that worked. I mean, my Bluetooth signal is crappy, but anyway,
00:34:08 ◼ ► the mouse over Bluetooth works, but I don't want that. I want it to be plugged in cause the blue,
00:34:12 ◼ ► again, my Bluetooth signal from my distant towers is crappy. So I'm like, well, the mouse isn't
00:34:20 ◼ ► this cord and I got a shorter cord and plugged it into the same USB hub that this cord is in.
00:34:25 ◼ ► And then the mouse worked perfectly. I'm like, well, maybe the cord is dead. Maybe it kinked,
00:34:29 ◼ ► maybe it got cut, maybe, you know, a mouse chewed through it. Like maybe the cord is bad. Um,
00:34:36 ◼ ► and you know, I mean, I tried a shorter cord and it worked. I mean, I'm kind of giving away by
00:34:40 ◼ ► saying shorter, but I tried another cord, which happened to be shorter and it worked fine. So
00:34:44 ◼ ► before I realized the length was potentially an issue, I was like, well, I got another one of
00:34:48 ◼ ► these, uh, mice in the attic. I will go and get the long cord because it comes with this really
00:34:53 ◼ ► long, really thin USB cord. That's more like a mouse cord and not like a cord that you'd use to
00:34:57 ◼ ► like, I don't know, charge your camera or whatever, like big, thick USB cord. So I got that cord down.
00:35:05 ◼ ► I plugged it into the USB hub, plugged it into my mouse. Same problem. Like it would, it would,
00:35:11 ◼ ► well, I have to turn out the same problem. It would move a little bit, but it was like,
00:35:14 ◼ ► it's very sporadic. Like I moved the mouse and maybe the mouse would Twitch on the screen or
00:35:19 ◼ ► whatever. I'm like, okay, this is a brand new cord fresh out of the box, never been used.
00:35:23 ◼ ► So it's gotta be the USB hub. Right. So then I took it and plugged that, the cord, the long cord
00:35:32 ◼ ► directly into the back of my computer and that worked. So I'm like, this cord is good. The hub
00:35:36 ◼ ► is bad. And that's where I ended up after this process of elimination of trying all different
00:35:42 ◼ ► combinations that my USB hub, which granted I've had since I had my cheese grater, Mac Pro,
00:35:46 ◼ ► I don't know how old it is, but it's pretty old. Apparently it can't supply enough signal strength
00:35:53 ◼ ► for a very long USB cord anymore. It can supply enough signal strength for like a three foot cord,
00:35:58 ◼ ► but not for like the six foot cord that I have. That's so weird. Yeah. Now the question is,
00:36:04 ◼ ► why did I think it was part of my mouse pad? Because all the experiments I had done before
00:36:08 ◼ ► is like, if I do it on the right side of my mouse pad, it jumps and doing the left side, it's good.
00:36:11 ◼ ► And the best thing I can come up with is every time I did this test, I don't even know which
00:36:25 ◼ ► like the first thing that you try it on, it's jumpy. But then when I moved to the second area,
00:36:29 ◼ ► it's, it's fine because like, I don't know, it's like whatever thing needed to get, whatever thing
00:36:39 ◼ ► went totally dead. Uh, you know, the time I cut out the mouse pad and put the new one down because
00:36:44 ◼ ► it wasn't moving at all. Right. So a new USB hub it's on its way to me. I just wanted to
00:36:50 ◼ ► finish up that story to say, it turns out it was not the mouse pad, although now I have a nice new
00:36:54 ◼ ► mouse pad. I saved the old one too, because, you know, of course you did rotate it back down.
00:36:58 ◼ ► Now I have a nice new mouse pad. Uh, I'm currently using, uh, my Logitech mouse with the little RF
00:37:05 ◼ ► dongle, which I have sticking up out of the top of my Mac pro, uh, with a, uh, with a USB-C to
00:37:11 ◼ ► a dongle, like a little antenna, because if you stick that little dongle, we went on it before.
00:37:15 ◼ ► If you stick that little dongle on the back of my computer, it's too far away and too close to the
00:37:18 ◼ ► other USB ports. It gets terrible signal, but now I have my little antenna work. So I'm using the
00:37:21 ◼ ► Logitech one while I wait. Logitech works great on the new mouse pad. And when my new USB hub gets
00:37:27 ◼ ► here, which by the way, I had to end up buying didn't have to, but I did end up buying literally
00:37:31 ◼ ► the exact same USB hub because since the time I bought that many years ago, there has been no
00:37:35 ◼ ► advance in USB hub technology or availability. So I hope the new one, uh, solves all my problems.
00:38:03 ◼ ► What the hell are you talking about? I don't think so. I was trying to, I saw the earlier
00:38:12 ◼ ► too, and I was trying to think, what could that be? And it seems vaguely familiar, but I, I
00:38:17 ◼ ► couldn't place it. So we're entering the photos section of the followup here. These are grouped
00:38:22 ◼ ► items. Um, this was, I was talking about like how to organize your photos in an ask ATP a couple
00:38:26 ◼ ► weeks ago and I said, fave everything and you can't like fave all your photos, but don't fave
00:38:30 ◼ ► like one in a million. And I was trying to think of like, I wonder what my percentages.
00:38:41 ◼ ► Yeah. This is a very good turn of phrase. I thought you just meant that you really liked
00:38:49 ◼ ► which is probably a little high. Like I have like 13,000 faves and 140,000 library thing,
00:38:56 ◼ ► but still 13,000 photos over like a lifetime is way more manageable than 140,000. It really
00:39:09 ◼ ► All right. And then tell me about Google drive for desktop, which is something that I really don't
00:39:13 ◼ ► think I'm interested in, but maybe I am. Well, so remember last time I talked about my photos
00:39:18 ◼ ► backup strategy, I was saying how Google's backup and sync thing had just like become unable to
00:39:23 ◼ ► upload my photos anymore. Uh, recall that I had, I had it pointed at my photo library and I had
00:39:27 ◼ ► it uploading to Google photos as like a fifth level backup photo library, just because I'm
00:39:33 ◼ ► already paying for that space in Google and you know, like might as well do it right. Um,
00:39:38 ◼ ► but it had gotten to the point where you'd run it and it would like say, okay, I'm looking at all
00:39:44 ◼ ► these files and I'm trying to figure out which ones I've got and which ones I need to upload.
00:39:47 ◼ ► And it would just spend forever with like some huge number and saying, looking at, you know,
00:39:52 ◼ ► 700,000 files, looking at 500,000, it would never complete. It would never get to the point where
00:39:58 ◼ ► it would upload new photos. And so I was months and months behind in Google photos. If you went
00:40:02 ◼ ► onto the web and looked at my Google photo library, you see the latest photo was from ages ago
00:40:05 ◼ ► because it couldn't, it couldn't figure out what it uploaded or not from my thing. I'm like,
00:40:11 ◼ ► I don't know what to do with that. I basically just stopped running, uh, Google backup and sync.
00:40:15 ◼ ► And I think the story I told last time is that I had forgotten that I had stopped running it.
00:40:18 ◼ ► I'm like, Oh, why haven't I been running this? And I launched it and I was like, Oh yeah,
00:40:20 ◼ ► this is why. Cause it never actually uploads anything. Um, I don't know why, but I ended up
00:40:31 ◼ ► And some piece of copy somewhere said, this is the replacement for Google's backup and sync.
00:40:36 ◼ ► Like, Hmm. Well, I get, you know, I was wondering why Google backup and sync basically didn't work
00:40:40 ◼ ► and, you know, it would make the fans spin off my wife's computer and never actually do any
00:40:43 ◼ ► useful work. And it was terrible. Apparently it's been replaced. So I'm like, all right,
00:40:47 ◼ ► I'll try the replacement. So I tried the replacement. It's called Google drive for desktop.
00:40:50 ◼ ► We'll put a link in the show notes. Um, I didn't, maybe I would have avoiding it because I don't
00:40:54 ◼ ► want Google drive like Google, you know, it mounts a little, it makes a little volume. That is your
00:40:58 ◼ ► Google drive. I don't want that. All I wanted to do is look at my photo library and take the photos
00:41:02 ◼ ► and upload them to Google photos. Like that's all I wanted for, but this thing does both. And it
00:41:06 ◼ ► will import your settings from Google backup and sync. So I launched the thing and it said, Hey,
00:41:10 ◼ ► I see you've run back up and sync. Do you want me to import your settings? I said, sure, go for it.
00:41:13 ◼ ► And it imported the settings. And it's like, now I'm just trying to figure out what I need to back
00:41:17 ◼ ► up. And it ran for about 36 hours. And then it said, okay, I figured out what I want to back up.
00:41:24 ◼ ► I'm going to start backing up stuff. And it showed a bunch of progress and a number and that number
00:41:28 ◼ ► counted down to zero. And then it said, okay, I've uploaded everything. Do you want me to uninstall
00:41:32 ◼ ► the Google backup and sync? And I said, yes, please do that. And so it uninstalled backup
00:41:36 ◼ ► and sync, and now I have Google drive running on my wife's computer. Yes. It has a little Google
00:41:42 ◼ ► drive icon mounted as volume that I never look at. Um, it's just, it's just like a network share
00:41:46 ◼ ► volume. It doesn't actually copy anything to computer, although that is an option. Um, but
00:41:50 ◼ ► yeah, it takes like zero CPU. It sits there and when new photos appear, uh, it uploads them and
00:41:56 ◼ ► says, I am uploading, you know, I have 500 photos to upload and that number counts down to zero.
00:42:01 ◼ ► And then it says I'm done and it's a miracle. I love it. We have such low standards for Google's
00:42:07 ◼ ► client software. Well, no, but I'm struggling to understand you're saying you have feedback,
00:42:12 ◼ ► reliable feedback as to the pros and progress of something uploading. It's, I mean, everything's
00:42:18 ◼ ► relative. So it does occasionally say some errors have occurred to you. Like, would you like to view
00:42:22 ◼ ► them? And you're like, sure, I'll view them. Then the other back up and sync had this feature as
00:42:25 ◼ ► well. And what it would show me is usually a list of like five or seven files. And it says,
00:42:29 ◼ ► these files fall below the minimum size, but I would love to do. And what any good Mac app
00:42:33 ◼ ► would do is I should be able to right click on those and say, reveal and find her to show me
00:42:36 ◼ ► where this file is. But I'm pretty sure when it says they're below the minimum size, that means
00:42:40 ◼ ► there's zero size because they don't exist, but it insists on showing me those lists of,
00:42:45 ◼ ► of a handful of photos that it said it couldn't upload because they're too small. And it's weird
00:42:48 ◼ ► because I think it's always skips over like the thumbnails, you know, the thumbnail letters that
00:42:52 ◼ ► are just too darn small that are in the photo library. Anyway, it seems to understand that it
00:42:56 ◼ ► is uploading an Apple photo system library because in the settings that says you would like me to
00:43:00 ◼ ► upload everything from your system photos library. I'm like, yes, nice that you figured that out.
00:43:04 ◼ ► Cause I pointed it at the, you know, the photos library bundle folder thing, but it knows that
00:43:09 ◼ ► that's the system library. And when new pictures appear, it finds them, grabs them and uploads them.
00:43:15 ◼ ► Despite the weird errors of it occasionally telling me that these files were below the minimum size
00:43:20 ◼ ► and the fact that there's no way to clear that error, it just constantly has this little
00:43:23 ◼ ► notification that says these five files were under the minimum size. Like, okay, I don't care.
00:43:27 ◼ ► As long as you're making progress. And as long as you are, when there's nothing happening,
00:43:31 ◼ ► you are idle and you're like 0.01% CPU. When I go look for an activity monitor, thumbs up.
00:43:43 ◼ ► and actually useful progress meter. Like amazing. Who do, who do you think that that's not a progress
00:43:48 ◼ ► bar. It's just a number. And like, if you watch the little thing, like occasionally it will do
00:43:52 ◼ ► a thing. It just shows the file name. It's not a great app. It's like one of the file names that
00:43:56 ◼ ► shows it's called full-size render dot JPEG, which I think is just like the file name that Apple,
00:44:00 ◼ ► that photos makes when it like renders out, like a thing that you've done an external editor.
00:44:04 ◼ ► And for the longest time, it just said full-size render dot JPEG. And it would never seem to
00:44:08 ◼ ► complete, but I think it was just replacing the, like essentially the table row with another full
00:44:12 ◼ ► size render to JPEG table row that had the same progress indicator on it. And I was afraid it
00:44:17 ◼ ► wouldn't terminate, but it did. It did eventually terminate the number. It said uploading this
00:44:20 ◼ ► number. The number did eventually count down to zero. And then it was idle. This is all I could
00:44:24 ◼ ► ask for. So I guess I get a few years out of this before Google abandons Google driver desktop and
00:44:28 ◼ ► replaces it with something else. And speaking of progress meters, Chris Steckler writes the obscure
00:44:34 ◼ ► method to force your photos library to download everything to your Mac is to create a slideshow
00:44:38 ◼ ► that includes all of your photos. So in photos library, all photos hit command day to select all,
00:44:45 ◼ ► and then choose file play slideshow. I kid you not writes Chris, I kid you not that you will get an
00:44:51 ◼ ► actual progress bar and it actually moves and provides you with an actual status update. Why
00:44:56 ◼ ► Apple couldn't hide a sink or refresh button in a menu somewhere like they include in the Mac app
00:45:01 ◼ ► store is beyond me and me too, Chris, me too. I don't get it. That's amazing. And remember this
00:45:07 ◼ ► is the alternative to going into preferences and saying, please put the originals on this Mac. In
00:45:12 ◼ ► theory, that's the way Apple wants you to do this. If you want all your photos to be on the hard drive
00:45:17 ◼ ► of your Mac, that's what that setting is for download all originals. But the problem is if you
00:45:21 ◼ ► click that radio button and preferences, you have no indication whether it's doing anything about
00:45:25 ◼ ► it or when it might complete. Whereas this method, this is with it, with that thing not checked with
00:45:30 ◼ ► just saying like, Oh, you know, optimize storage or whatever. If you want to force it to download
00:45:35 ◼ ► them, try to make a slide show with all the photos that it play. And then it will pull down all the,
00:45:40 ◼ ► apparently all the files and that thing and give you a progress bar. And I assume as soon as it
00:45:43 ◼ ► completes that you should rush into preferences and click originals on this Mac. And then I guess
00:45:48 ◼ ► you have to hope that it's not like purging all that stuff before it downloads them. It's
00:45:51 ◼ ► stupid. Like I know Apple just wants it to be like, you just check this box and you're done,
00:45:56 ◼ ► but people want to know like, so A, are you doing anything? And B, how long is it actually
00:46:01 ◼ ► going to take? And photos is bad at answering those questions. We are sponsored this week by
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00:47:37 ◼ ► Sometime last 24 hours, we have learned that the next Apple event, which presumably will be the
00:47:42 ◼ ► iPhone event is this upcoming Tuesday, the 14th of September at 1 PM Eastern. So as always, we need
00:47:50 ◼ ► to spend some time talking about what's going to happen. And I don't know, man, I'm not really,
00:47:58 ◼ ► I'm not that jazzed about this. I just, maybe it hasn't sank in for me yet. I'm sure I'm going to
00:48:04 ◼ ► love whatever's presented. I'm sure I'm going to get whatever silly phone they tell me to buy.
00:48:09 ◼ ► I don't know. I I'm there's nothing other than MacBook pros, which I don't think we're going
00:48:13 ◼ ► to get that. I'm like super duper. Oh, and actually now on, now that I'm talking, maybe there
00:48:16 ◼ ► are things I'm excited for. So what do I really want to see? I want to see MacBook pros and new
00:48:20 ◼ ► AirPods. Next week, Casey has ordered a phone, a watch, AirPods, at least I want, I want Apple
00:48:28 ◼ ► to take all my money, but, uh, I don't know if they're gonna. So, uh, yeah, I, I would love to
00:48:32 ◼ ► see, um, obviously a phone, but more importantly to me, anyway, I would love to see new AirPod pros
00:48:38 ◼ ► cause I'm in the market and I have been for like a year. Uh, and, and I want to wait until there's
00:48:42 ◼ ► a new set and I'd love a new MacBook pro I'd love for one of my machines to be on Apple Silicon. And,
00:48:48 ◼ ► and at this rate, it's never going to happen, but I digress. How do you want to handle this,
00:48:53 ◼ ► John? How do you, do you want to walk through the rumors or the first item I put up there?
00:48:57 ◼ ► I think we can like dispense with this early is MacBook pros, question mark, sad face emoji.
00:49:04 ◼ ► I really want that emoji. That's an emoticon. All right. You're right. Um, the member at
00:49:09 ◼ ► WWC, we were like, Hey, maybe there can be a, maybe there'll be MacBook pros at W2C. Oh,
00:49:13 ◼ ► I guess they're not ready yet. And now we just forget about them. And the next event comes along
00:49:16 ◼ ► and nobody's talking about Mac Pro pros. I'm going to get that. The rumor mill seems to say like,
00:49:20 ◼ ► this is, I mean, it's the iPhone event. We all know it's the iPhone event, right? Fine.
00:49:24 ◼ ► But there's no reason you can't also put out macro pros. Like I really, I'm dying for M1X stuff.
00:49:29 ◼ ► That's the Apple announcement that I am most anticipating. And it just doesn't seem like
00:49:34 ◼ ► it's in the cards for this event. So I'm kind of sad about that, but that, I mean, I set that
00:49:39 ◼ ► aside because I think there's lots of stuff that is rumored for this event that is good and
00:49:42 ◼ ► interesting. And this is the iPhone event and I get it. You don't want to distract or whatever.
00:49:51 ◼ ► Monterey and the new MacBook pros, I'm ready for that thing to happen. I just wanted to
00:49:55 ◼ ► get that out there. I know we're weird on the show. Tend to like the Mac announcements. I'm
00:49:59 ◼ ► more excited about the Mac tech. Obviously the Macs going to Apple Silicon has been a big story. And
00:50:05 ◼ ► so far the Apple Silicon Macs they put out have been amazing. They just haven't been the high
00:50:10 ◼ ► end ones. So I'm really hungry for the high end stuff, but it seems like I'm gonna have to wait
00:50:14 ◼ ► a little longer. Yeah, I agree. It seems based on all the rumors and stuff, it does seem like
00:50:20 ◼ ► this is not the MacBook pro event. This is not the M1X Mac event. And it's, it doesn't seem like
00:50:27 ◼ ► we're going to actually be getting any Mac news at this event, which is unfortunate from those of us,
00:50:33 ◼ ► like the three of us who tend to care more about that. But also not that unexpected. You know,
00:50:39 ◼ ► yes, we were expecting M1Xs in June, but the rumors even then kind of suggested later in the year.
00:50:45 ◼ ► And the iPhone event almost never contains any Mac news. It's almost always the iPhone and usually
00:50:53 ◼ ► the Apple watch as well. And that's, that's usually like the big headlining features and then they'll
00:50:57 ◼ ► shove in like whatever they want to promote with those, but it's usually not the Mac event. So I'm
00:51:03 ◼ ► not that surprised that the rumors seem to be indicating this is probably not going to be any
00:51:07 ◼ ► Mac stuff here. That being said, I am as excited as you and as impatient as you for whenever the
00:51:12 ◼ ► Mac event actually happens, because I love my M1 Mac mini that I'm using as my desktop right now.
00:51:20 ◼ ► But I really want more RAM and I really want more cores. And as soon as I can get more RAM and more
00:51:27 ◼ ► cores, I will get it. And if I have to buy three small Macs this year, if it's like, if you know,
00:51:34 ◼ ► I got the Mac mini in like January, February, if I have to buy the M1X Mac mini because the
00:51:39 ◼ ► Mac mini pro isn't out yet, and then a few months later buy the Mac mini pro and that comes out,
00:51:45 ◼ ► I'll do it. Cause I need more cores so badly, but I'm so happy with this thing right now. And it was
00:51:51 ◼ ► so inexpensive, like relative to other high-end Mac desktops that I'm not going to feel bad replacing
00:51:56 ◼ ► it soon, but I really want more cores and I really want more RAM. You really don't need to convince
00:52:02 ◼ ► any listener to this program that, that you will be buying more Macs as soon as possible. This is,
00:52:07 ◼ ► there's been a large, large amount of, of past circumstance and evidence that that is exactly
00:52:14 ◼ ► what's going to happen. So I don't doubt it, but yeah, I'm going to similar boat, like both of my
00:52:18 ◼ ► computers. So I have a, what is a year old, uh, MacBook pro 13 inch MacBook pro, uh, four port
00:52:25 ◼ ► with touch bar. And I have an iMac pro and because I don't have any Apple Silicon computers that I
00:52:33 ◼ ► use ever, neither of the, neither of my existing computers feels bad, but I know from the reports
00:52:39 ◼ ► of every human who's ever touched an Apple Silicon Mac that both of them are actually dog slow. And
00:52:44 ◼ ► I just don't realize it. So my, my thought process and assumption is that, well, I wouldn't say the
00:52:51 ◼ ► Intel Macs are slow compared to the M1 Macs. I will say like, as I just said, I am desperate for
00:52:58 ◼ ► more cores and more RAM because every time I do a bill now that I'm using Swift and Swift UI,
00:53:03 ◼ ► Oh my God, I, it murders my computer to do a bill of my app. That's true. It's, it's, it's a
00:53:10 ◼ ► never ending cycle. Like it'll chew up whatever it'll give, whatever you give to it. Oh sure.
00:53:14 ◼ ► But because I run iStat menus, I can see in the menu bar, I can see like here it's, it's maximizing
00:53:20 ◼ ► all my performance scores for, you know, this pretty big chunk of this build process. So I
00:53:24 ◼ ► know what it's doing. Um, but what I would say that the main difference like here we are, you know,
00:53:30 ◼ ► almost a year in the main difference between the feeling of the M1 Macs and a feeling of Intel Macs
00:53:36 ◼ ► is that the M1 Macs raise the floor way up. Like stuff like common stuff that is not pushing
00:53:45 ◼ ► everything to the Macs is faster and feels faster and is way more responsive. But when you want to
00:53:51 ◼ ► push everything to the Macs, when you want to like do a massive video encoder or a massive build,
00:53:55 ◼ ► Intel still wins on that front just because it has so many cores in many workloads, not all workloads,
00:54:02 ◼ ► but many. So it's like we've raised the floor. We've made the low end of performance really,
00:54:06 ◼ ► really high and fast and responsive, but we haven't yet lifted the ceiling very much to make
00:54:12 ◼ ► the high end much higher. So that's what I'm waiting for for the new, you know, upcoming
00:54:17 ◼ ► higher end Apple Silicon Macs. That's what I'm looking forward to. What can we do now? We, we're
00:54:22 ◼ ► doing some crazy stuff now with four performance cores. What can we do with 12 or 40 or whatever,
00:54:28 ◼ ► you know, whatever we can get? Like that's what I want to see. What's the line, you know,
00:54:32 ◼ ► it's cooler than a million bucks, a billion bucks. You know, it's cooler than four cores,
00:54:37 ◼ ► a hundred cores. I hear you. And so my thought, like I said, was, or like I was starting to say,
00:54:42 ◼ ► my thought was I would replace the laptop first, even though it is newer, but I don't expect to
00:54:47 ◼ ► have an Apple Silicon equivalent of the iMac Pro anytime soon. So I figured I'd replace the laptop
00:54:54 ◼ ► and then we'll see what I think after that, maybe I'll just get a external monitor for it if it
00:54:59 ◼ ► really is that great. I don't know. But, uh, I don't want to get a two port MacBook Pro. I really
00:55:05 ◼ ► want to replace what I've got, which is a four port MacBook Pro. I can take a leave the touch
00:55:09 ◼ ► bar. It doesn't bother me one way or the other, but I really want four ports. And, and I don't
00:55:13 ◼ ► think that that exists right now. And, and I want to wait for this Phantom one that's coming
00:55:18 ◼ ► eventually. So we probably spent too much time on this already, but I I'm right there with you guys.
00:55:22 ◼ ► Well, I was going to say like, I think it's funny that we spent this much time talking about Macs
00:55:26 ◼ ► in our predictions for the event that we said is not going to get, not going to stay in Macs, but
00:55:30 ◼ ► at least listeners that we, this will mean that we won't have to talk about all this Mac stuff
00:55:34 ◼ ► next week when this stuff has been announced. And we can actually talk about the iPhones that
00:55:38 ◼ ► were presumably announced instead of talking about the Mac stuff. Unless they announce Mac stuff,
00:55:41 ◼ ► who knows, but like looking at the list of things that looking at a list of things that are,
00:55:44 ◼ ► that are probably a good bet for our announcement. And we'll go through them in order, but it's,
00:55:54 ◼ ► And that is plenty for an event, especially as we'll go through them, we'll see that, you know,
00:55:59 ◼ ► the watch is all new in theory this year, the AirPods are all new. The mini is making its
00:56:04 ◼ ► triumphant return with an all new design. So that's, that's a full event there. There's not
00:56:08 ◼ ► really, you know, if they announce all that stuff that I just listed, this is a pretty good Apple
00:56:12 ◼ ► event, right? I guess we can start with the iPhone, which presumably will be called iPhone 13, but
00:56:17 ◼ ► maybe not, but I feel like the big story here based on the rumors, I put it as the first bullet
00:56:22 ◼ ► item here is that supposedly Apple ordered 100 million A15 chips from TSMC, which apparently is
00:56:29 ◼ ► a bigger than normal initial order for like the launch of a phone. And I mean, I guess you can
00:56:36 ◼ ► read into that and say, Apple thinks they're going to sell a lot of these. There are also
00:56:39 ◼ ► other explanations and that maybe the A15 is going to be used in things other than just the iPhone 13.
00:56:44 ◼ ► Maybe it's going to be used in the iPad mini. Maybe there's confusion about what things the
00:56:50 ◼ ► A15 might go in. Maybe they're announcing AR goggles that these will go in. Like, we don't
00:56:55 ◼ ► know. We don't know what that 100 million means. Maybe TSMC just wanted Apple to make a big order
00:56:58 ◼ ► to lock in a low price. It's very difficult to know, but either way, it shows that Apple is A,
00:57:04 ◼ ► tying up a lot of chip manufacturing capacity and B, they seem fairly confident that they're
00:57:09 ◼ ► going to sell a lot of things with A15s in them. And one of those will presumably be the iPhone
00:57:14 ◼ ► 13, which otherwise seems like a, not a boring year, but like, you know, the outward design looks
00:57:20 ◼ ► about the same. It's got the flat size, just like the 12. The notch is supposedly going to be smaller
00:57:25 ◼ ► this year because they combined a bunch of sensors. Larger wireless charging coils for better heat
00:57:31 ◼ ► dissipation. Stronger mag safe magnets, a bigger battery, faster wired charging going from 20 watts
00:57:38 ◼ ► to 25 watts. Can we just, can we pause real quick right here? I would love to see better battery
00:57:45 ◼ ► life for both my watch and my phone. I, again, we talked about this last episode. Maybe this is a
00:57:51 ◼ ► self-created problem because I very rarely charge many mechanisms other than Qi charging, but I don't
00:57:57 ◼ ► know. I feel like my phone's battery, and I have a 12 Pro, a regular size 12 Pro, I feel like my
00:58:02 ◼ ► battery is not great, which means Marcos must be abysmal at this point, given that you have a much
00:58:07 ◼ ► smaller battery. But I would love to see an increase in battery life in both my watch and my
00:58:14 ◼ ► phone. I tend to charge my watch for about half an hour to an hour in the middle of the day, not
00:58:19 ◼ ► because I have to, but because I just have an opportunity to. And if I don't do that, the watch
00:58:24 ◼ ► typically dies not too long after dinner time. Now again, I have the smaller of the watches. It is
00:58:28 ◼ ► cellular, although it rarely has the occasion to be on a cellular, or to have the cellular radio on.
00:58:33 ◼ ► But I don't know, I feel like I would really love, we're back in that position after a couple of years
00:58:39 ◼ ► off where I really would love more battery life. And we're going to talk about it in a minute, but
00:58:43 ◼ ► if we're getting some new display technology, I'm really, really concerned that that's going to be
00:58:52 ◼ ► No, I think you're going to get, so the reasons you're going to get better battery life on the
00:58:55 ◼ ► iPhone are physically bigger battery, according to rumors, right? So there's more capacity in there.
00:59:02 ◼ ► I remember last year was the first set of 5G phones, and the 5G modems were not particularly
00:59:06 ◼ ► good with power. One of the rumors this year is that it will have an improved 5G cellular modem,
00:59:12 ◼ ► still from Qualcomm, Apple's isn't ready yet. And so those two things combined is that it's not the
00:59:17 ◼ ► first generation 5G product with the big power hungry 5G radio in it, and the battery is bigger.
00:59:23 ◼ ► And then I guess you could throw in there, the A15 is 5 nanometer, the A14 was 7 nanometer, I think.
00:59:29 ◼ ► Anyway, all those combined to make me think that the 13 is going to have better battery life than
00:59:35 ◼ ► 12, because that was one of the knocks against the 12 when it came out. It's like, do you really
00:59:39 ◼ ► want the first 5G phone? Everyone knows it's a little bit battery hungry. It's why we talked
00:59:43 ◼ ► about on the past shows, if you would disable 5G, you can get more battery life out of it,
00:59:46 ◼ ► just because you don't have it do the 5G stuff in it, in its cell modem. So I think you'll be happy
00:59:52 ◼ ► there. And the display, that's one of the rumors, is the display is finally going to be 120 Hertz.
00:59:56 ◼ ► But the key part about the display, assuming it is still just the same OLED tech that we have now,
01:00:00 ◼ ► is not the 120 Hertz thing, which is kind of a battery sucker, but it's the variable refresh
01:00:06 ◼ ► rate, which I think does the current OLED screen have that? I don't remember the current one.
01:00:13 ◼ ► Right. But anyway, a variable refresh is that it can change the refresh rate of the display,
01:00:17 ◼ ► and if nothing is happening on the display, it can go down to one Hertz, like one update per
01:00:21 ◼ ► second, which is super slow. And this is also part of the rumor of potentially having an always on
01:00:25 ◼ ► display on the phone where it will just show like the time or something. That's what the watch does
01:00:29 ◼ ► is sit battery is it goes into, you know, how can you afford to keep the display on all the time?
01:00:33 ◼ ► Well, OLED, you only pay for the pixels you're lighting up. And if the pixels you're lighting up,
01:00:37 ◼ ► like rarely change, like if it's basically a static image, like the time with the minutes,
01:00:40 ◼ ► and you can crank down the refresh rate to one Hertz, that saves battery. It also saves battery
01:00:45 ◼ ► when you're staring at your phone and nothing is moving on the screen. Like you're not scrolling,
01:00:50 ◼ ► the variable refresh can crank down the refresh rate to not be 120 Hertz, but to be less than
01:00:55 ◼ ► the 60 Hertz that your phone is doing right now when you're staring at the screen, right? So
01:01:02 ◼ ► net net, unless you're constantly playing a game, it won't actually be updating at 120 Hertz. In
01:01:08 ◼ ► fact, it should be updating it much less than your current phone 60 Hertz. So I think the phone
01:01:12 ◼ ► screen is probably going to be a wash, especially if there's an option to just do 60 Hertz, like
01:01:18 ◼ ► lots of Android phones have that. Like, do you want 120 Hertz on or do you want it to just be 60?
01:01:22 ◼ ► I wonder if that setting will be in there. Well, and I bet there will be such an option because
01:01:26 ◼ ► when the 10.5 iPad came out with its 120 Hertz screen, they added an accessibility option to
01:01:34 ◼ ► Yes. Well, I'm sure we'll hear all about it next week. But yeah, when the iPad got 120 Hertz,
01:01:41 ◼ ► they had an accessibility option added to limit it to 60. And so I would expect to see that same
01:01:44 ◼ ► option show up on any phone that has that capability. Yeah. And this year's crop of camera
01:01:48 ◼ ► stuff, one of them is what has been described as portrait mode and video, essentially like
01:01:52 ◼ ► the real time effects that you can do for like blurring the background and finding objects and
01:01:56 ◼ ► stuff. Apparently that the A15 is faster than if you do that in video. The rumored name for it is
01:02:01 ◼ ► cinematic video, possibly using LIDAR to better do object detection. That'll be interesting.
01:02:06 ◼ ► The astrophotography mode rumor that we talked about for a while, taking pictures of the night
01:02:09 ◼ ► sky. Portrait mode using LIDAR, apparently currently portrait mode doesn't use the LIDAR,
01:02:14 ◼ ► but the new one will. Object detection photo filters, where it can find objects in the photo
01:02:23 ◼ ► Alice, you could have those pictures that have the red fruit inside of the black and white picture.
01:02:28 ◼ ► Right, right, right. These are all just rumors. Maybe this is all founded on the same underlying
01:02:33 ◼ ► technology of, hey, now it's going to use LIDAR to pick out objects in the scene and you can do
01:02:36 ◼ ► stuff with it. A better wide angle camera with autofocus. I guess the current wide angles don't
01:02:41 ◼ ► have, they're just like a fixed focal distance or something. I don't know what this rumor is about,
01:02:45 ◼ ► but anyway, better wide angle camera. The rumored new color is, it's been described as sunset gold.
01:02:52 ◼ ► I don't know if that's what they'll call it, but it's like the pictures, it doesn't look like rose
01:02:56 ◼ ► gold, but it looks more like a bronzy type thing. Anyway, that's a rumor of a potential new color.
01:03:01 ◼ ► There's the fun rumors about satellite connectivity for emergencies. This is one that is very
01:03:07 ◼ ► confused. On the one hand, you have the people saying, oh, the iPhones have FCC registration
01:03:14 ◼ ► or whatever for these radio bands that are used for satellites, but it'll only be used for
01:03:18 ◼ ► emergencies. If you're out of cell range and you want to do an SOS, you can connect to a satellite
01:03:22 ◼ ► to do an SOS so someone can find you or whatever. Then other people are saying, no, no, no, you don't
01:03:27 ◼ ► understand. There's just a bunch of radio bands that were previously licensed to satellite makers
01:03:31 ◼ ► that are now being repurposed for cell phones and this radio has the capacity to use those. So
01:03:36 ◼ ► there's no satellite thing at all and it's really just 5G with more bands or something. We'll find
01:03:41 ◼ ► out which one of those is true, if any. Maybe they just won't mention it all and then we'll know this
01:03:45 ◼ ► is a non-issue. But that crop of features right there, it makes for what we used to call an S
01:03:51 ◼ ► generation. It's the same case on the outside. In this case, it's a little bit different because the
01:03:54 ◼ ► notch will be smaller. So for all the people who did the clever jokes where they hid something
01:03:58 ◼ ► behind the notch in their apps, you got to make sure you detect you're on the iPhone 13 and make
01:04:04 ◼ ► it narrower to fit inside there. Oh yeah, one more thing about the narrow notch. The rumors and the
01:04:08 ◼ ► little parts leaks and everything show the notch being not as wide on the phone. But to do that,
01:04:12 ◼ ► they had to take the speaker that you would hold up to your ear when you talk on the phone,
01:04:16 ◼ ► if anyone ever talks on the phone like that anymore and doesn't talk into the end of their
01:04:24 ◼ ► it's like a hard, you look on your phone now if you have one of the newer phones, it's like
01:04:27 ◼ ► a horizontal slit kind of in the middle of the notch, the middle vertically speaking. The rumors
01:04:33 ◼ ► are that they shoved that speaker towards the top of the phone to make room for like all the sensors
01:04:38 ◼ ► and stuff that is kind of crammed together. And the reason I'm a little bit concerned about that
01:04:43 ◼ ► is I bet a lot of cases have like a lip, right? That goes over, that overlaps the front of the
01:04:48 ◼ ► phone a little bit. And it doesn't take much to sort of blunt the volume of that little speaker
01:04:54 ◼ ► if you have like say an iPhone 12 case that had a lip that didn't anticipate that the speaker
01:05:25 ◼ ► I thought the rumor was width and height, but I honestly haven't been paying that much attention
01:05:28 ◼ ► to the rumors. So I could be wrong. It looked a similar size. I think most of what I saw was
01:05:32 ◼ ► that it was going to be like taller, like skyscrapers coming out of the back of your phone,
01:05:35 ◼ ► that they would all be taller. The plateau would be taller and the lenses would be taller,
01:05:38 ◼ ► but we'll see. But anyway, like it looks more or less like the 12, which I think, you know,
01:05:42 ◼ ► I've had 12 for a year. I like it. It's a good design. I'm not getting this phone anyway, but
01:05:46 ◼ ► like for an S generation, if this was called the 12 S or if it ends up being called the 13 for
01:06:02 ◼ ► That's a good S generation. So I think thumbs up on this phone. Like we talk about this every year,
01:06:06 ◼ ► it gets kind of boring, but it's like Apple makes good iPhones like, and setting aside the Pro ones,
01:06:11 ◼ ► like everything we talk about here, a lot of these are going to be Pro only features like the plane
01:06:14 ◼ ► 13. If the plane 13 is to the 13 Pro, the way the 12 was to the 12 Pro also a great phone. The 12 is
01:06:21 ◼ ► a great phone, right? I mean the 12 Pro, it's honestly hard to justify the 12 Pro, except if
01:06:27 ◼ ► you just want the best of the best or you like the colors or finishes better. Just because the 12 was
01:06:32 ◼ ► so great, same CPU, same great features. So, you know, Apple continues to make really good iPhones,
01:06:38 ◼ ► not a big story, kind of a dog bites man story, but you know, there's something to be said for
01:06:43 ◼ ► consistency. Like it's not easy every year to come out with a really good phone and Apple keeps doing
01:06:49 ◼ ► it. Yeah. I mean this, this list of features or, you know, rumored features, I mean, and honestly,
01:06:55 ◼ ► these all sound fairly plausible. Like I don't think, I don't think anything here is a massive
01:07:00 ◼ ► reach. Like I think these all, this all sounds like in the realm of plausible. Maybe the satellite
01:07:04 ◼ ► stuff is. Yes, exactly. So I have a friend who, who does a lot of work on telecommunication stuff and
01:07:10 ◼ ► he had, and probably still has a satellite phone that he uses in very, very rare circumstances.
01:07:21 ◼ ► but the antennas on those things were massive. They were enormous. And obviously with the March
01:07:27 ◼ ► of Progress and March of Time, everything gets smaller and smaller, but I'd be very surprised if
01:07:32 ◼ ► true honest to goodness satellite connectivity in the, in the way that people are saying about it
01:07:36 ◼ ► being for emergencies, when you're out of cell coverage, I'd be stunned if that really landed.
01:07:41 ◼ ► I would absolutely buy it's a, it's a bandwidth thing or not bandwidth, what's a frequency thing
01:07:47 ◼ ► where it's like you said, John, the frequencies are retired now we're using new frequencies, but
01:07:51 ◼ ► this satellite thing I'm super skeptical about everything else. I agree with you, Marco. Yeah,
01:07:55 ◼ ► it's definitely plausible. Yeah. And if all of this, or I mean, heck, even if half of this stuff
01:08:00 ◼ ► happens and the other half is BS, that's still a good, that's still a solid update. You know,
01:08:06 ◼ ► as John was saying, like, this is like a, you know, kind of like an S year maybe, but I don't
01:08:09 ◼ ► know some of these things, I mean, every year you want better battery life, you want better cameras,
01:08:15 ◼ ► you want it to be a little bit faster and whatever else that's, that's like, you know, every year
01:08:19 ◼ ► gets those things for the most part. Um, but yeah, this sounds like a pretty big upgrade to the
01:08:24 ◼ ► display. Like if, if there is 120 Hertz and variable refresh rate, and especially if there's
01:08:31 ◼ ► the always on option to put like, you know, a clock or the now playing controls, whatever,
01:08:40 ◼ ► So that's actually, I'm looking forward to this. I think this could be a bigger year than we think.
01:08:50 ◼ ► stronger mag safe, faster charging, like that's all just little quality of life stuff that just
01:08:56 ◼ ► makes everything a little bit nicer. So this sounds like a pretty good upgrade and we'll see
01:09:00 ◼ ► what happens and, you know, we'll see what they're actually released. But even if the satellite thing
01:09:04 ◼ ► is BS or misinterpreted or wrong in some way, the rest of this is a solid update. If the, if the
01:09:10 ◼ ► satellite thing is real, then I can see that being a pretty nice, you know, pretty big deal because
01:09:16 ◼ ► even if people never end up needing satellite connectivity, like if they're, if you're never
01:09:22 ◼ ► in the middle of nowhere and you need to be rescued, great. But a lot of people might buy it
01:09:27 ◼ ► just in case they might say, you know, occasionally we go somewhere with no cell coverage
01:09:33 ◼ ► and what if we get stuck on the side of a mountain and need to be rescued? Like I can see that being
01:09:37 ◼ ► an amazing thing for not only for, you know, the obvious humanitarian reason of maybe this could
01:09:43 ◼ ► save a life. But also that could be good for sales because I think a lot of people would
01:09:47 ◼ ► buy it on that just in case notion of like, Hey, I might need this for my doomsday prep or for my
01:09:54 ◼ ► weird hikes I do once every decade or whatever. Like I think people would actually buy it in, in
01:09:59 ◼ ► large numbers for that. Oh, I absolutely agree with you there because you know, for the longest
01:10:03 ◼ ► time I was buying a cellular Apple watches, which I don't plan to do anymore. And we'll probably talk
01:10:08 ◼ ► about that later, but I was doing that because when I would go for a run on the off chance that
01:10:13 ◼ ► I like slipped and broke a leg or something, I wanted to be able to call for help. And,
01:10:17 ◼ ► and I was paying $15 a month as I whined and complained about many years ago on this very
01:10:22 ◼ ► program, I think $15 a month for that privilege of, of, of just in case. And so, yeah, it's,
01:10:29 ◼ ► not only does it fit with, you know, what people might want to pay for and spend their money on,
01:10:40 ◼ ► but to a smaller degree in the Bay area, you know, all those annoying people are constantly out
01:10:46 ◼ ► taking pictures of the beautiful landscape there. And it wouldn't surprise me if Apple,
01:10:51 ◼ ► a very California centric company decides, Oh, we should do something about this when we're off the
01:10:54 ◼ ► beaten path. So yeah, I think it is, if you look at the technology not being plausible, which I do
01:11:01 ◼ ► look at the technology as not being plausible, but nevertheless, I, I think the desire is absolutely
01:11:08 ◼ ► there. Anything else on the phones? I mean, I I'm almost certainly going to get one because I'm a
01:11:13 ◼ ► sucker and I do whatever Apple tells me to do, but, uh, I mean, I, I'm looking forward to it
01:11:18 ◼ ► tentatively. I would love better battery life and I would love actually, I would love better glass.
01:11:23 ◼ ► As I've said to you, I'm never going caseless, caseless again, but I would love to have more
01:11:28 ◼ ► robust glass. This, this 12 pro I have the front has been scratched absolute smithereens. And I
01:11:35 ◼ ► somehow dropped the back on like the wood floor in my kitchen and, and lightly shattered the back of
01:11:41 ◼ ► mine. Aaron's looks like it's been through a trash compactor. I would love to have stronger glass,
01:11:52 ◼ ► better gorilla glass, please. Maybe orangutan glass. Is that an improvement? I don't even know
01:11:55 ◼ ► moving on Apple watch seven. This sounds very interesting to me, flat sides and flat display
01:12:02 ◼ ► closer to the cover glass I'm in that that sounds excellent. Part of that is also a larger display.
01:12:08 ◼ ► So the flat side, it's obvious to say like, okay, this is a family resemblance. The phones have flat
01:12:13 ◼ ► sides. The iPad's got some a while ago. If you put them on the watch now Apple's devices kind of look,
01:12:17 ◼ ► you know, Hey, it's a flat sided rounded rectangle must be an Apple device. And I see that angle.
01:12:22 ◼ ► But I think probably the more important factor is the, the existing watch design, the way it curves,
01:12:29 ◼ ► you know, the Airstream trailer look leaves less area, less flat area for the display. Like you're
01:12:36 ◼ ► wasting a lot on the, essentially the bezels, like the curved part. And I know there are, you know,
01:12:40 ◼ ► phones that have displays in the curve parts. I forget which manufacturer was picking that. Maybe
01:12:44 ◼ ► with Samsung. Yeah. Um, but that's, I, I've never really liked that because that part of the display,
01:12:50 ◼ ► like it curving away from you, it doesn't quite look right. Right. So, and your other choice is
01:12:54 ◼ ► to extend the display, like out underneath that by moving it farther away from the surface glass.
01:13:00 ◼ ► And that doesn't feel good either. So this is the solution. The solution is you make the top flat
01:13:03 ◼ ► and the sides flat. You can have a larger display in the same width and height because the display
01:13:08 ◼ ► goes closer to the edge and the top is very flat. And then you can also get the display closer to
01:13:13 ◼ ► the glass that it's on. So it feels like it less like it's sunken down in there. And that I think
01:13:17 ◼ ► is the, is the real benefit. The family resemblance is nice and makes sense, but the real benefit is
01:13:22 ◼ ► you get to have a bigger display with the same size watch. That said, the sizes are supposed to
01:13:26 ◼ ► be 41 millimeters and 45 millimeters. I don't know how watch sizes work, but I think our current,
01:13:31 ◼ ► the current ones are 40 and 44. Is that correct? I believe that's right. I don't know what they're
01:13:35 ◼ ► measuring there. Does that mean the watch will be physically larger by a couple of millimeters or
01:13:39 ◼ ► are they talking about the display? It's confusing to me. Based on the rumors, the rumors are that
01:13:45 ◼ ► the body will be roughly the same size, but that the screens will be getting larger because they're
01:13:50 ◼ ► shrinking the bezel effectively. So that I don't know, you know, we'll, we'll find out what happens.
01:13:56 ◼ ► Frankly, I, so this is, this is what I'm most curious about is like, what is the new Apple
01:14:02 ◼ ► watch design? How does it look? What kind of materials are they offering? What kind of finishes
01:14:07 ◼ ► and colors? Because the like the little like, you know, basic renders that we saw from the
01:14:12 ◼ ► rumor mill did not look good to me. Really? I thought they looked great. Well, that's the
01:14:17 ◼ ► other, that's the other thing as, as a fashion accessory, the Airstream trailer look for,
01:14:21 ◼ ► you know, take it or leave it. It is the iconic Apple watch look because the Apple watch has
01:14:25 ◼ ► always looked like a rounded curve. I mean, it's, it's physically changed many times, but the,
01:14:30 ◼ ► the overall design has been, you know, a pillowy round thing of various thicknesses. And this is
01:14:35 ◼ ► the first time it's changed. I'm I think the pillowy round thing doesn't look great as a
01:14:41 ◼ ► watch, but it's like, Oh, it's an Apple watch. The square sided one. I think similar things. Like,
01:14:46 ◼ ► I don't, I don't have any particular tastes in watches, but either one of those I look at and
01:14:49 ◼ ► say, yeah, they look like smartwatches because that's what they are. They don't, neither one
01:14:53 ◼ ► of them looks any better or worse as a quote unquote watch to me, just because I see it
01:14:57 ◼ ► entirely as a little computer on your wrist. And I think having a bigger screen is a feature of a
01:15:03 ◼ ► little computer on your wrist, but aesthetically speaking. Yeah. Well, we'll see what it looks like
01:15:07 ◼ ► on people's when you're wearing it. Obviously it is flat sided. It will be more prominent. Like the
01:15:13 ◼ ► curves are minimizing in some ways, but on the other hand, it, depending on how thin it is,
01:15:18 ◼ ► it could be like more formal looking and less dorky. Maybe. I don't know. It's very, I agree
01:15:25 ◼ ► that the renders look a little bit like you have an iPad strapped to your wrist, which is kind of
01:15:28 ◼ ► what you do, but I think I'd have to see these in person to see how they actually come off.
01:15:31 ◼ ► Having straight sides is not, does not make a watch like a bad watch. Most watches have
01:15:38 ◼ ► straight sides like that is by far the most common case shape. You have the case band around the
01:15:43 ◼ ► outside that, and it's straight and then you have some kind of, you know, bevel up to the crystal,
01:15:50 ◼ ► which is like the cover glass or Sapphire on top. That's very common for watch design. It's like the
01:15:55 ◼ ► most common shape. Obviously, you know, it looks better when it's thinner. It doesn't look good if
01:15:59 ◼ ► it's too thick, but like overall that's common. The reason why the Apple watch has been rounded
01:16:04 ◼ ► like this, I think was twofold. I think number one, that was the shape of iPhones at the time
01:16:08 ◼ ► it was launched. So that was like their design language. And number two, a straight sided watch
01:16:13 ◼ ► of the thickness that most Apple watches are is it looks really chunky. It looks bad. Like you don't
01:16:19 ◼ ► want a straight sided watch to be thicker than maybe about 12 millimeters, depending on the
01:16:25 ◼ ► design. Like that's, that's about as thick as you want. And the Apple watches I think are all
01:16:28 ◼ ► thicker than that or at least are in the ballpark. So if they can make it noticeably thinner and give
01:16:34 ◼ ► it straight sides, it might look good, but there's also some challenges about that. Like how will the
01:16:41 ◼ ► materials wear, especially on the corner? That's really tough. On the current like, you know,
01:16:47 ◼ ► slopey sided ones, because the whole surface is curved, it hides scratches a little bit better.
01:16:54 ◼ ► If the surface is flat, you see every single scratch. And if there, if anything happens to the,
01:17:00 ◼ ► to the beveled edge, I mean, remember back, back with like the iPhone 5s and 5, those beveled edges
01:17:07 ◼ ► got nicked up really easily. That's where you're going to see all the wear. So I'm really curious
01:17:12 ◼ ► to see how this plays out in practice, both with, with wear and with maybe this might alter the
01:17:18 ◼ ► materials choices. Like maybe we might not get certain materials or colors that we had with,
01:17:23 ◼ ► with the outgoing design, because it doesn't work or doesn't look as good with this new design,
01:17:27 ◼ ► who knows. But that's, I'm very, very curious to see like materials, visual design, whether they're
01:17:33 ◼ ► going to like polish the bevel or the bevel or not. And then, and then what the heck they're
01:17:38 ◼ ► doing with the screens, that all sounds probably good, but I think they're also going to have a
01:17:50 ◼ ► manufacture. And that's why almost every other smartwatch maker uses flat sided cases. And as a
01:17:57 ◼ ► result, a flat sided round wrecked watch from, from like our current brains of consumers,
01:18:06 ◼ ► looks like an Android watch or something like it looks like something else. It doesn't look
01:18:10 ◼ ► like an Apple watch. So when, when Apple moving into this, they're kind of redefining what an
01:18:15 ◼ ► Apple watch looks like. I hope they can do it in a way that makes it look good. And I think they
01:18:19 ◼ ► probably can. Their history with making the Apple watch look good is pretty strong. They've had a
01:18:25 ◼ ► pretty good track record there, especially with the use of good materials and everything. So I
01:18:28 ◼ ► hope they continue that. But I am really like, I'm kind of nervous for them on this because it
01:18:34 ◼ ► looks like they're tackling a pretty significant challenge in making a new design language for the
01:18:41 ◼ ► Apple watch that both looks good and wears well and looks like Apple as opposed to some other
01:18:49 ◼ ► cheap thing. I think they're probably leaning on the watch bands a lot because like, I mean,
01:18:52 ◼ ► the majority of the surface area of the watch is the band and Apple has done a good job sort
01:18:56 ◼ ► of branding the bands. And you know, if you, when you see someone with an Apple watch band,
01:19:00 ◼ ► even a ripoff Apple watch band, it's not actually made by Apple. That's as much an identity as like
01:19:05 ◼ ► white AirPods are like the white headphones on an iPod were back in the day. Like this design
01:19:11 ◼ ► almost says like, just ignore the watch body. Like it's all screen when viewed from the front,
01:19:16 ◼ ► when viewed from the side, it's just a flat surface that we can put a color on. But really,
01:19:20 ◼ ► it's all about the bands. And that's going to be your fashion statement. And the watch sort of
01:19:24 ◼ ► disappears into, I mean, that's, that's one way this might pull off. I'm mostly nervous about the
01:19:29 ◼ ► thickness. Because like you said, if it would just slab sides with flat sides, if it's too thick,
01:19:33 ◼ ► if it's, it can start to look like, you know, just a giant wall on your wrist, you know, like the
01:19:38 ◼ ► curves are slimming. But if you get it down thin enough, maybe this generation won't be quite thin
01:19:42 ◼ ► enough. But if you get it down thin enough, the watch really does start to disappear and let the
01:19:46 ◼ ► band do most of the talking again, especially when viewed like the way you look at the watch when
01:19:50 ◼ ► you're looking at the time. I don't think you'll see anything except for the screen with which will
01:19:54 ◼ ► go almost edge to edge, you won't be able to see the sides at all. Maybe you'll see the little rim
01:19:58 ◼ ► around it, the little the chamfered edge that was polished on the the original five or whatever,
01:20:03 ◼ ► that maybe they'll end up the part that might Nick to your point, like, they have to do something
01:20:07 ◼ ► with that edge to make it durable and attractive. And in that respect, I think that even though my
01:20:13 ◼ ► my iPhone 12 Pro is in a case, I tried to use it without without a case for I think, like two days
01:20:18 ◼ ► or however long I lasted. The stainless steel rounded over edge of the edge of the iPhone 12
01:20:26 ◼ ► Pro, I think looks very attractive and would look great as this that same edge on a watch, right.
01:20:32 ◼ ► And I don't know how durable it was, maybe Casey can tell me if he's nicked up that part of it.
01:20:36 ◼ ► But I could seem pretty seem pretty sturdy with the surgical stainless steel and the rounded edge,
01:20:40 ◼ ► like there were unlike the chamfered edge, which was flat with sharp, like transitions to the
01:20:45 ◼ ► other part. That was easy. And it was two toned materials easy to Nick up the stainless steel
01:20:50 ◼ ► seems like it's rounded. So there's no sort of corner to Nick. And it was sort of uniformly
01:20:55 ◼ ► colored throughout. So I'm hoping they can also do something good with that edge. But yeah,
01:20:59 ◼ ► like these renders, they get the gist of it, the gist of the rumors or the parts leaks or whatever.
01:21:04 ◼ ► But you got to wait to see, you know, let's do things when you have to wait to see Apple's
01:21:09 ◼ ► glamour shots, which only sometimes have any resemblance to reality. And the second thing
01:21:14 ◼ ► is you have to actually see the product that they ship in a store somewhere and see how it is on your
01:21:17 ◼ ► wrist. Yeah, one other thing before we leave the design of this, I one thing I'm actually also
01:21:23 ◼ ► concerned about is I like the thick, curved edge sapphire crystal. It looks good. And in the watch
01:21:32 ◼ ► world thick, they're called box crystals. Usually that shape or like a kind of comes up on the edges
01:21:38 ◼ ► like a rounds up before it's like a flat top that's in fashion in watch design and has been for some
01:21:43 ◼ ► time, like many decades for many types of watches because it looks good. And it's also highly
01:21:51 ◼ ► functional. You know, if with the crystal being very thick, the crystal will therefore take a lot
01:21:56 ◼ ► of the impact that would otherwise scratch the sides because some of those impacts will hit the
01:22:01 ◼ ► crystal instead. And you know, the glass is pretty strong on the glass models, the sapphire super
01:22:06 ◼ ► strong on the steel models. And so it's actually a pretty, not only, you know, attractive, you know,
01:22:11 ◼ ► kind of a retro look in some ways, but like, it's also a very pragmatic design to have a thick,
01:22:16 ◼ ► curved edge crystal. So if you know, like the rumor renders of the new watch design show it with
01:22:23 ◼ ► basically a flat crystal that has very little to no thickness. And if they're extending the screen
01:22:28 ◼ ► outwards and reducing the margins of the, you know, of the bevel here, bezel, I guess now it's
01:22:33 ◼ ► a bezel. I was talking about the bevel before. It's hard to keep these things straight, Jon.
01:22:37 ◼ ► But anyway, I worry that they're going to like thin out and flatten the crystal. And that will
01:22:45 ◼ ► be another thing that might make it end up looking cheap. So I really, this is a very tricky design
01:22:51 ◼ ► line they're walking here. I have faith that they tend to pull off these things well. But
01:22:57 ◼ ► I'm really nervous for them on this one because they're taking on a pretty big challenge on this.
01:23:04 ◼ ► basically disagree with everything you just said, but I come from a position of not really
01:23:10 ◼ ► understanding what is quote unquote correct amongst watch people because I am not a traditional watch
01:23:16 ◼ ► person. But like, I'm looking at renders of this new Series 7 watch and it looks frickin' great to
01:23:22 ◼ ► me. I love the way it looks. I love the flat sides. Now I agree, like if it's a skyscraper on my wrist,
01:23:26 ◼ ► that's different. But assuming it doesn't look absolutely absurd in terms of how tall the watch
01:23:31 ◼ ► is, I love the way this looks. I would prefer to have a much flatter like glass on top because I'm
01:23:38 ◼ ► too cheap to get the fancy sapphire ones. I think this looks excellent and I'm super pumped for it,
01:23:44 ◼ ► even though I got a watch last year. But again, it's kind of my job and I'm definitely a sucker.
01:23:49 ◼ ► So I'm not saying you're wrong. Like again, I'm not trying to argue with what the fancy watch
01:23:54 ◼ ► people believe and think is best, but to my eyes, to my silly, dumb consumer eyes, it looks great.
01:24:00 ◼ ► See, one of the reasons why I'm concerned about like by having like the potential thinner crystal
01:24:10 ◼ ► that's a downside. That's not good for fashion or elegance or looking nice. It shouldn't look
01:24:18 ◼ ► like a tiny iPhone. It should look like a nice smartwatch. It's never going to look like a nice
01:24:22 ◼ ► watch period because it can't, but it should look like a nice smartwatch. And the Apple watch,
01:24:28 ◼ ► not every model of Apple watch has always looked like that, but every generation of Apple watch has
01:24:33 ◼ ► offered configurations that look nice. So I hope with this new design language, they continue to
01:24:40 ◼ ► offer that. Like I've been very happy. Yes, you make fun of me for buying the expensive thing.
01:24:43 ◼ ► I've always gotten the steel watch. I love the steel watch. I love the, you know, the high
01:24:48 ◼ ► polished edges, even though it gets scratched to hell. My current one from just last fall is indeed
01:24:54 ◼ ► scratched to hell because I've worn it a lot this year, but I love like the polished steel,
01:24:59 ◼ ► the black top and the, and like a white sport band. I love that look with the Sapphire. It's
01:25:04 ◼ ► a really, really nice smartwatch. And it's a, it's actually a pretty decent watch. One, if you can
01:25:10 ◼ ► figure it right and don't mind it being a digital watch because the analog faces are all terrible,
01:25:15 ◼ ► but the digital faces can be decent. So anyway, once you, once you're accustomed to that,
01:25:20 ◼ ► and now that we have the old on screen, it can be a decent looking watch. I am fine wearing this
01:25:25 ◼ ► watch most of the time now because it's decent looking. I hope with the new design language that
01:25:32 ◼ ► I hope they're able to still have configurations that look both nice and not like you have a phone
01:25:40 ◼ ► strapped to your wrist. And that's going to be the biggest challenge. I think like seeing it,
01:25:43 ◼ ► like seeing the rumor renders that to me just looks like iPhones. I really hope that the actual
01:25:48 ◼ ► final design differs enough from that in practice. Like I hope it doesn't just look, I have a phone
01:25:53 ◼ ► strapped to my wrist because that's not a look that I want. And I don't find that elegance at all.
01:25:58 ◼ ► Yeah. I always liked the shiny stainless steel too. And then one Apple watch that I got, I
01:26:02 ◼ ► paid more for the stainless steel one because it's a look that I like. And that's why we call it an
01:26:05 ◼ ► Airstream trailer because they're kind of shiny while they're, they're more of a matte finish
01:26:09 ◼ ► stainless steel. But anyway if you made this new design and that thing, I guess it would be
01:26:13 ◼ ► a sardine can like a rounded rectangle with shiny sides. We'll see. I still kind of like the idea of
01:26:20 ◼ ► a phone with the same finish that my iPhone has around it. In terms of battery life for KC,
01:26:25 ◼ ► if he gets one of these, improved battery life is part of the rumors. Part of what makes that
01:26:36 ◼ ► rumors of the possibility of 5g, which would hurt battery life, which makes me think it's not going
01:26:39 ◼ ► to be in this watch. But then of course the system on a chip, the S7 is going to be at 5 nanometers,
01:26:44 ◼ ► which will help it sip battery power as compared to its 7 nanometer. I'm assuming the current
01:26:50 ◼ ► system on a chip is 7 nanometer. And there's also rumors that it might have 2 gigs of RAM,
01:26:55 ◼ ► which I suppose would help developers be, maybe would help them be less constrained depending on
01:26:59 ◼ ► how Apple changes the rules. And the final thing that helps battery life is straight sides make
01:27:05 ◼ ► easy for easier packaging. Like there's more volume and it is easier to put components inside
01:27:10 ◼ ► something that doesn't have curves all over it. Right. It's just easy, you know, so they can fit
01:27:13 ◼ ► a bigger battery. You know, the, the, the S7 system on a chip is supposedly the double layer design.
01:27:18 ◼ ► So it'll take up a less area within height wise in exchange for being a little bit thicker. And
01:27:23 ◼ ► maybe there's room for a bigger battery. So I have high hopes for that Apple watch seven will have
01:27:28 ◼ ► improved battery life over the six, just because of all those things combined, you know, smaller
01:27:32 ◼ ► system on a chip, easier packaging, bigger, bigger watches period 41 millimeters, 45. When you're
01:27:38 ◼ ► talking about the watch battery, every millimeter helps. So I think this will be for people who
01:27:42 ◼ ► aren't people who like the aesthetic or, or don't care about it, or just mostly about the watch
01:27:47 ◼ ► bands. I think the Apple watch seven will be a really good watch for people who like the Apple
01:27:51 ◼ ► watch for it being an Apple watch, having a bigger display with less area. And you know, some fun new
01:27:57 ◼ ► watch spaces. That's another rumor, like watch faces that can let you have more complications.
01:28:01 ◼ ► Now that there's more screen space. I think for people who love the Apple watch, the Apple watch
01:28:06 ◼ ► seven sounds like a hit all around longer battery life, bigger screen, uh, you know, faster. Not
01:28:12 ◼ ► that anyone cares about that. I think it will be extremely popular. Probably then apparently
01:28:19 ◼ ► AirPods three are rumored, uh, the rumors being that they would be stubby kind of like the pros,
01:28:23 ◼ ► but no in-ear soft tips, no noise canceling in a wide case. I currently have, uh, the AirPods
01:28:30 ◼ ► that have the Qi case, you know, it didn't have an add on a Qi charger. It has the, the Qi case that
01:28:36 ◼ ► came with it. And my left AirPod is really hurting in terms of battery life. My right one, even
01:28:41 ◼ ► though I use it more seems to be fine. I am ready to try for the very first time AirPod pros. I want
01:28:47 ◼ ► to do it, but, uh, like I said earlier, I don't want to do it until there's new ones. And it sounds
01:28:51 ◼ ► like maybe not new ones this event, but man, can you imagine new watch, new phone, new AirPods?
01:28:56 ◼ ► This could be very new MacBook pro. This could be, this could be real ugly for me. So, uh, with that
01:29:06 ◼ ► after you give to St. Jude atp.fm/join please. And thank you. Yeah. These AirPods, uh, I've been
01:29:12 ◼ ► talking about this before of like how I might have to panic by the previous ones when the new ones
01:29:16 ◼ ► come out. It seems like the rumors are pretty clear that these won't be, I didn't want to call
01:29:19 ◼ ► them in-ear, but you know, the ones with the little, the little AirPods pro, the little soft
01:29:23 ◼ ► squishy thing that goes into your canal. I don't like how that feels. My wife has them. I don't
01:29:27 ◼ ► prefer it. Um, which is kind of a shame because I think I would enjoy the noise canceling, but I
01:29:31 ◼ ► just don't like that sensation and the current regular AirPods fit me great. I've used them
01:29:37 ◼ ► since they were introduced. I've bought a couple of pairs as the batteries have gone bad or they've
01:29:40 ◼ ► been passed down to kids or whatever. I love them. They're great. My only problem is they do have a
01:29:46 ◼ ► limited lifetime. Like my current ones, they're doing this weird thing where when I pick up my
01:29:49 ◼ ► iPhone, it shows the little rounded rectangle white thing from the top that comes down and says,
01:29:54 ◼ ► AirPods connected, you know, that little thing, but boom, you know, it shows that. And then I hit
01:29:58 ◼ ► play and overcast and it starts coming out of my speaker. Nice. Uh, and why? And then I have to go
01:30:03 ◼ ► to like the little, you know, control center, little circle thingy and tap on AirPods again.
01:30:07 ◼ ► And now it goes through them. And this is just a recent thing that's been happening. Like they're
01:30:11 ◼ ► taking longer to connect to my phone and this is like my AirPods telling me we're getting old.
01:30:15 ◼ ► Yeah. And the batteries aren't that great. In all fairness, like almost every release of iOS,
01:30:22 ◼ ► including point releases, messes with the way like AirPods connect in some way. I don't know
01:30:28 ◼ ► why they mess with it so often, but they do. Also, I would recommend to anybody out there with
01:30:33 ◼ ► AirPods, turn off the auto switching. It is such a big quality of life improvement to have that
01:30:40 ◼ ► turned off. And it's frustrating because you have to turn it off on every device that your AirPods
01:30:46 ◼ ► pair with and for every pair of AirPods, but it is, it's trust me manually switch. It's so much
01:30:54 ◼ ► nicer. You, I use the auto switching though when I'm in bed watching my iPad and then I switched
01:30:59 ◼ ► to my phone. I love the fact that whichever device I'm using gets the AirPods and it happens
01:31:03 ◼ ► transparently. It's the one of the few features that actually works like the, Oh, this is,
01:31:07 ◼ ► they'll just automatically switch. It really does work when I do that. And I kind of like it. I'll
01:31:10 ◼ ► think about it though. If it's still, you're an auto switching unicorn. Yeah. I mean, well,
01:31:14 ◼ ► I don't think I am because half the time when my things aren't connecting, I think they're
01:31:17 ◼ ► connecting like to the upstairs iPad. Right. So I'm not really a unicorn. I think it is
01:31:21 ◼ ► messing me up a little bit. Like you said, like if I just did it manually, I wouldn't have these
01:31:24 ◼ ► problems, but when it does work, I appreciate it. And when it doesn't work, it's not that
01:31:28 ◼ ► bad to manually fix it. But anyway, my, my issue with these is they aren't shaped like the classic
01:31:34 ◼ ► AirPods shape has been. And I don't know if this new shape will feel comfortable. My ear will
01:31:38 ◼ ► fall out of my ear. Like, you know, I just don't know. Right. It's not shaped exactly the same as
01:31:42 ◼ ► the AirPods pro and it's, it doesn't have the soft tip. And so what would an AirPods pro feel like
01:31:48 ◼ ► without the soft tip, but it's not quite that shape either. If you yank the tips off the AirPods pro
01:31:51 ◼ ► and you look at it, that's not quite the same shape as the rumors too. And I think these have
01:31:55 ◼ ► the stubby tails that you have to squeeze instead of the tapping. I've been tapping my ears for
01:31:59 ◼ ► years now. I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about the squeezy stubs. Right. So these are a
01:32:05 ◼ ► mystery to me. Like I'm probably almost certainly going to buy them to find out, but it's almost
01:32:10 ◼ ► like I should order these and quickly also order one more pair of the old ones just in case I hate
01:32:14 ◼ ► them, but that's a waste of money. So I'm probably just going to order these. And I really, really
01:32:17 ◼ ► hope I like them because if I don't, then I'm going to be trolling eBay for like, you know, a,
01:32:22 ◼ ► a new inbox, old AirPods or whatever. So I'm a little bit nervous about these. Like I don't,
01:32:27 ◼ ► I don't be grudge apple like this, this, the shape of the current AirPods. How many years has that
01:32:32 ◼ ► been out? Like they're due for redesign. I can find with the only other thing is the case,
01:32:40 ◼ ► my pockets better. And the, the fat case just looks huge to me. I understand why it has to
01:32:45 ◼ ► be bigger because you know, it's a different shape or all that stuff. And I think it also
01:32:48 ◼ ► has a bigger battery than my case, but I'm going to miss the original AirPods design. It's one of
01:32:53 ◼ ► the it's lasted so long because it truly is one of Apple's great group. We've talked about this
01:32:57 ◼ ► many times. That's one of Apple's great products. Like it totally changed the way we all relate to
01:33:01 ◼ ► headphones with these turdy little things and their little magnetic case, poor Marco. They
01:33:06 ◼ ► didn't fit in his ears. That's a bummer, but maybe I'm going to be in that camp with these new ones,
01:33:11 ◼ ► but I feel like this it'll be a bummer. Yeah. Well, you know, if that's the case, I, you know,
01:33:16 ◼ ► I'll just have to buy the other ones like the used ones. I'll be like my cheese grater. I'll just have
01:33:20 ◼ ► a stock of old, old design AirPods in my attic and just go through them as the batteries get
01:33:25 ◼ ► exhausted. But yeah, it was, I really think these are great products and I hope the AirPods 3 can
01:33:29 ◼ ► live up to the legacy of their predecessor because again, I feel like the pros, I know they have pro
01:33:34 ◼ ► in the name, but they're really a different kind of product. It's like they have features that
01:33:37 ◼ ► these can't have because they seal in your ear canal. And if you don't like a little thing shoved
01:33:41 ◼ ► into your ear canal, but it's not the product for you. So I'm glad Apple continues to make the other
01:33:44 ◼ ► one instead of saying, we've just decided everybody needs to shove these things in their ear canals.
01:33:54 ◼ ► Cool. Good. I mean, it's kind of a shame that that hasn't had the laminated display for so long,
01:34:00 ◼ ► cause that's just kind of, you know, I don't know. It just seems like cheaping out or whatever,
01:34:05 ◼ ► but yeah, I think it's important for them to continue to have a cheap one. It's still kind
01:34:09 ◼ ► of disappointing that this is still going to be like the touch ID thing with the whole, you know,
01:34:13 ◼ ► big bezel and all that other stuff. Like when I guess maybe next year, the cheap iPad 10 will
01:34:19 ◼ ► finally get updated. It'll be the ugly duckling because we're going to see in a second, like
01:34:22 ◼ ► basically all the iPads will be on the new design except for this one. But at the same time, like
01:34:27 ◼ ► they, like they update this iPad pretty much on schedule every year now and they sell an absolute
01:34:34 ◼ ► ton of them and we never have to know about them. We never talk about them like, and they're good
01:34:40 ◼ ► products. Like an A 13 is a good iPad. Right? You can do all the things on it. I would, I would say
01:34:44 ◼ ► they're fine. They're fine products. They're not, they're not great, but it was like, if you want,
01:34:48 ◼ ► if you need an iPad and your needs aren't that high and price is very important. Yeah, just get
01:34:53 ◼ ► it. It's fine. And it'll run all the things like an A 13 you'll be able, it's not like, oh, I can't
01:34:57 ◼ ► play games in this cause it's only A 13. A 13 is fine. You'll be able to play the games. Right. And
01:35:01 ◼ ► the screen is fine. And like, you know, touch ID versus face ID is not a big deal for an iPad. Like
01:35:06 ◼ ► it, you know, with the exception of having to use the crappy old Apple pencil, but at least it does
01:35:10 ◼ ► support that. And, and, you know, again, if you want the pencil, maybe this isn't the product for
01:35:14 ◼ ► you, but yeah, I think it's a good product. And I think it's important for them to keep having this
01:35:18 ◼ ► cheap one. It'll just be nicer maybe next year when there's uniformity across the line.
01:35:22 ◼ ► And finally, iPad mini six with the iPad air design, a flat sides touch ID, power button,
01:35:29 ◼ ► magnetic Apple pencil, et cetera, a 14 or a 15, you know, as an, as a former Apple, uh,
01:35:36 ◼ ► iPad mini apologist, this makes me happy that they're still making them from time to time.
01:35:41 ◼ ► And I hope they continue to, but I don't know, it's not something that I personally care about
01:35:45 ◼ ► anymore. It's something that my kid cares very much about. It's nice. That's getting the update,
01:35:53 ◼ ► it's going to have touch ID, but it's in the new design. Oh, they put touch ID in the power button.
01:35:57 ◼ ► And it's like, yeah, I guess, I mean, it's working out and you get the new pencil with it. And,
01:36:01 ◼ ► you know, especially if this comes with an eight 15, which is again, is the new chip. That's going
01:36:06 ◼ ► to be in the iPhones. That would be amazing. It's kind of like getting the iPhone mini with the same
01:36:12 ◼ ► system on a chip as the, you know, the iPhone 12 pro right. Like it's a little one, but it's,
01:36:18 ◼ ► you know, you don't compromise on the computing power. You get the same may 15. That's,
01:36:21 ◼ ► that's just one of the rumors is probably going to be an a 14 since it's the mini, but yeah,
01:36:25 ◼ ► it's nice to see the mini getting updated. Uh, because I think they need to have, just like they
01:36:29 ◼ ► need to have the cheap one. They also kind of need to have a slightly smaller one because sometimes
01:36:33 ◼ ► that's what people want. So obviously it doesn't get updated that frequently. Uh, and it's long
01:36:38 ◼ ► overdue, but yeah, updated. Uh, and if you're going to update it, having basically the iPad
01:36:42 ◼ ► air design is a great compromise in terms of the family resemblance features, uh, and price.
01:36:48 ◼ ► Also, I would love for it to be USB-C which the iPad air is. And so, you know, if the iPad mini
01:36:54 ◼ ► adopts the iPad air, uh, design and every other way I would expect it would probably be USB-C as
01:36:59 ◼ ► well. And that would just be nice from like a family charging perspective, just to have more
01:37:04 ◼ ► things on USB-C. That's always a welcome change for us. Yeah. That leaves the poor iPad nine,
01:37:08 ◼ ► the cheap iPad as the last iPad with lightning on it. It's kind of, kind of sad. You just to be
01:37:15 ◼ ► clear new iPhone still lightning. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I would love to have a go USB-C,
01:37:22 ◼ ► but I don't, I don't see it happening anytime soon. If ever. No, that's not the type of thing
01:37:26 ◼ ► they're going to do in like an S generation of like, it's the same case. You know what I mean?
01:37:29 ◼ ► But yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. All right. And then, uh, AR goggles. Right. Okay, good. I didn't think
01:37:35 ◼ ► so either. People are going to have, we didn't talk about the invitation, but it was California
01:37:39 ◼ ► streaming, which is a play on California dreaming the song from the sixties. It's a reference,
01:37:44 ◼ ► John. Yeah. In some respects, uh, it is like the most generic title because it's like, Hey,
01:37:50 ◼ ► we're not inviting you in person. We're going to stream it just like we did all those pastimes.
01:37:53 ◼ ► Right. And so, great. You're not saying anything about the title, but then of course people always
01:37:57 ◼ ► want to read into it. So there was, you know, the little AR thing that, that shows the little Apple
01:38:02 ◼ ► logo. And if you go inside the Apple logo, it plays a little song or whatever, but Apple has
01:38:05 ◼ ► done little AR gimmicks for its events for a long time. Now doesn't necessarily mean that this is
01:38:11 ◼ ► going to be the air goggles one, but still people want to hang onto it. And they said, yeah, but this
01:38:14 ◼ ► AR gimmick for their event is cooler than the past ones, which I agree it is cooler, but I don't know,
01:38:21 ◼ ► like everything we just read out, that's a full event. There's no reason you need anything more
01:38:26 ◼ ► than that in an event. This is the iPhone event. The iPhone is Apple's biggest product. And there's
01:38:30 ◼ ► a bunch of other cool stuff in this as well. The Apple watch getting its first complete redesign
01:38:33 ◼ ► and a totally new form factor new AirPods that haven't been, you know, regular AirPods that
01:38:37 ◼ ► haven't been updated in forever. And some iPad stuff, you don't need anything else in this event.
01:38:42 ◼ ► And I don't think that Apple would want to distract from the new iPhone by talking about AR goggles,
01:38:50 ◼ ► like assuming the product was even ready. And to be clear, what we're talking about here is a big,
01:38:58 ◼ ► oh, Superman style glasses that just magically show you like, no, we're talking about actual
01:39:02 ◼ ► goggles that like, like a gamer would wear, right? It's not, it's the type of product that really
01:39:12 ◼ ► plastic thing to the front of their face. I don't know what Apple's pitch is going to be for that
01:39:18 ◼ ► product. But the rumor is that they have, you know, they have multiple things in flight. And one of
01:39:25 ◼ ► I don't know if you've ever seen one of these things, but like a big plastic thing that you
01:39:28 ◼ ► strapped to your face, it does not look like a pair of glasses, it does not even look like a
01:39:31 ◼ ► pair of ski goggles. It looks like an existing VR thing. But apparently it's, you know, AR work and
01:39:37 ◼ ► has cameras where you can see what's in front of you. Anyway, that's the rumor. And the other
01:39:40 ◼ ► rumor is, oh, an actual thing that looks like glasses that is farther off into the distance.
01:39:44 ◼ ► Either one of those things seems like it would need a new event or the verily is it would need
01:39:48 ◼ ► an event that does not include a bunch of iPad crap, AirPods and all the other stuff. So I think
01:39:54 ◼ ► this is not the event for AR goggles, or if it is going to be like a three hour event and the
01:40:00 ◼ ► messaging is going to be very muddled based on like Apple's recent history. See the Casey's topic
01:40:06 ◼ ► from a show or two ago, maybe our assumptions about how good Apple is at forming a coherent
01:40:13 ◼ ► message about its products. Maybe we should modify our assumption that Apple would never do something
01:40:17 ◼ ► so muddled, but I'm just going to still say that this is not, if the stuff that we listed as
01:40:23 ◼ ► possibly coming actually does come, this is not the event to try jamming the AR goggles. And yeah,
01:40:31 ◼ ► I think, I think of this by this point with less than a week to go, if the air goggles were coming
01:40:35 ◼ ► out, there would be much more rumors. Cause it's not like this is an unknown. We've seen,
01:40:39 ◼ ► you know, renders based on descriptions of the device. We've seen leaks of pieces of software
01:40:44 ◼ ► of the starboard thing that they use for internal testing and all sorts of like, you know, code
01:40:49 ◼ ► snippets and frameworks and libraries. And of course we all know about AR kit and all the stuff
01:40:52 ◼ ► that they've been doing over the years and reality kit. Like, so the AR stuff is an open secret,
01:40:57 ◼ ► but we just don't know if and when any product will appear. And it just doesn't seem like it's
01:41:06 ◼ ► you're right that I think the rumor mill would be much stronger, you know, pinpointing it to this
01:41:18 ◼ ► that they're not going to just come out, out of the gate with like glasses, the way we think of
01:41:24 ◼ ► glasses, that, that it would be like the, the, the most recent rumors were like, it's going to be
01:41:27 ◼ ► this multi-stage approach where first they're going to roll out basically a developer device.
01:41:32 ◼ ► That's going to be like the quest, you know, like this big virtual reality looking headset thing.
01:41:40 ◼ ► they release, you know, smaller things that are more like glasses. If that's what they end up
01:41:45 ◼ ► doing, I wouldn't expect them to want to put it out at a very high profile event. I would expect
01:41:52 ◼ ► them to actually like slow play it as much as possible because what you don't want to happen
01:41:56 ◼ ► from a PR perspective is you don't want this massive, you know, big project that's been going
01:42:01 ◼ ► on for years that they've been slowly building to for years. You don't want to put it out there
01:42:05 ◼ ► in a really big fanfare way. If it's not ready for that yet, if it's, if it's going to be something
01:42:12 ◼ ► that's going to be like kind of not really for public consumption yet, or much more like
01:42:16 ◼ ► specialized and early and rough and, and like kind of big and clunky. And then later on, you're going
01:42:21 ◼ ► to have something better. You want to put that out there in the quietest way possible, basically,
01:42:27 ◼ ► like put it out to developers, like don't even hold a massive, you know, big fanfare event for it.
01:42:33 ◼ ► And to put it in the biggest, most massive, highest fanfare event every year, which is the iPhone
01:42:38 ◼ ► event would be literally the last place you want to put something like that. So that's again, as
01:42:43 ◼ ► John said, that's not to say they won't do it, but they probably won't do it. And they, they at least
01:42:48 ◼ ► shouldn't do it unless they're at a point where this is where this would like totally blow you
01:42:54 ◼ ► away and we're, and we're totally wrong about where they are in this. But that seems very unlikely.
01:42:58 ◼ ► Yeah. WWC seems like the natural place. If you're going to pitch it as developers who want you to
01:43:03 ◼ ► start figuring out how to make UIs and AR and this product, like that's the whole difficulty
01:43:07 ◼ ► of this product. Like they could pitch it as like, you know, like they do for a dev, dev kits for
01:43:11 ◼ ► game consoles where it's like the console is not done yet, but game developers who want you to start
01:43:15 ◼ ► working on games for it. So here is the, some monstrosity, some loud, you know, multi-fanned
01:43:22 ◼ ► giant monstrosity that has specs similar to what we're planning for the console, but we're not
01:43:27 ◼ ► entirely sure yet, but maybe this one has more RAM and is actually clocked a little bit lower,
01:43:32 ◼ ► but gets hotter because it's using an earlier version of the chip. And it's just for you to
01:43:36 ◼ ► get started on your game development. And then you have to develop against that based on what you
01:43:41 ◼ ► think the eventual product will be. Right. And you know, as time goes on and you develop in the years
01:43:46 ◼ ► leading up to the console, you adjust for, okay, we think the console is going to have less RAM
01:43:50 ◼ ► than the dev kit or more RAM, or we think the console is going to, you know, have a higher
01:43:54 ◼ ► clock speed or lower, have more graphics course. And you just sort of work around that. Right.
01:43:58 ◼ ► So that's one way they could go with the AR things. The problem is you have to know when
01:44:05 ◼ ► pretty much know like we have a dev kit, it's going to be X number of years. Then we're going
01:44:08 ◼ ► to at least a real console and we've done it year after year or generation after generation. So it's
01:44:13 ◼ ► somewhat predictable, but nobody knows how to make a pair of attractive looking glasses that double as
01:44:19 ◼ ► a high resolution screen for AR. Like that doesn't exist. Like you see things like the magic leap
01:44:23 ◼ ► thing or whatever those don't look like it's a pair of glasses. Like they look like computer
01:44:28 ◼ ► things in your face or Google glass or whatever. No one has cracked this problem yet. So it's not
01:44:31 ◼ ► like, you know, when you're going to be done with this right years in advance, you know,
01:44:35 ◼ ► you don't know until you've actually done it and things that you strapped to your face that look
01:44:41 ◼ ► like Oculus type things or whatever those exist as products right now. And people buy them mostly
01:44:45 ◼ ► for playing games. So the question is, does Apple try to ship an actual product, a narrow interest
01:44:51 ◼ ► product, but an actual product to consumers that doesn't look like a pair of glasses, an actual
01:44:56 ◼ ► product that is used like the Oculus Quest. And then they could, they could pitch it as a gaming
01:45:00 ◼ ► thing and Apple's not great at gaming, but like if they don't pitch it a gaming, it's like,
01:45:03 ◼ ► so why would a consumer buy this ugly thing that they strap on their face? They're not going to wear
01:45:08 ◼ ► it in public. Why would they wear it in their house? Like what is the, what is the pitch to
01:45:12 ◼ ► consumers for this device? Cause that I feel like is easier than trying to give something to
01:45:17 ◼ ► developers and say, develop something against this. And someday we'll have something that's not this
01:45:25 ◼ ► that you can ship yourself. When will that day be? Well, a, we can't tell you cause we're Apple,
01:45:28 ◼ ► but b, we actually don't know because that's a really hard problem. Like, so maybe that's the
01:45:32 ◼ ► reason nothing has come to this, but I, I feel like the most likely scenario is that Apple is
01:45:37 ◼ ► going to ship an actual product that looks like a big ugly thing that you strapped to your face
01:45:43 ◼ ► and it will be narrow interest. It's not like they're going to say, this is the new iPhone
01:45:46 ◼ ► and everyone's going to own one. It'll be narrow interest in the watch. It'll be narrower interest
01:45:50 ◼ ► than any of their Macs because all those products are things that in theory, anyone can buy and find
01:45:54 ◼ ► useful. But this product, I don't think you can pitch that to the broader public and say,
01:46:00 ◼ ► everybody should buy this lunchbox that you put on your forehead. No. And so the question is,
01:46:04 ◼ ► if it's not for everybody, who is it for? The answer so far has been it's for gamers and here
01:46:09 ◼ ► are some games on it. And Apple is perhaps uniquely ill equipped to, to pitch any product that can
01:46:15 ◼ ► see the Apple Pippin and many other past attempts to make gaming. Right. Cause like, if you look at
01:46:21 ◼ ► like, you know, what is an Oculus quest? You know, the hardware, it's basically smartphone hardware
01:46:26 ◼ ► with some specialized displays in like, you know, a nice plastic enclosure with some batteries,
01:46:32 ◼ ► like Apple can do all of that. Like hardware wise, I have no doubt that Apple could make a
01:46:45 ◼ ► it's phone hardware. This is what they specialize in. So that the hardware side would be fine,
01:46:50 ◼ ► but we know what Apple's relationship is to, to gaming. And while they do have a lot of game
01:46:59 ◼ ► playing going on on their platforms, uh, that's, that kind of happens to them. It happens despite
01:47:05 ◼ ► them. Not because of the casino casino games for children that could be in it. It'd be like,
01:47:10 ◼ ► you're in the casino for children. Right. Yeah. You can, you can see the gems flying out of your
01:47:15 ◼ ► pocket to do everything in the game. Like I can't imagine that they would be good at, at shipping
01:47:22 ◼ ► something that is basically their first second game console. We saw what happened with the Apple
01:47:27 ◼ ► TVs attempt at gaming. Like I just, I don't think they have it in them. And we saw this before. So
01:47:32 ◼ ► that being said, going back a little bit higher level here, I wouldn't actually assume that
01:47:40 ◼ ► anything will ever ship from the AR project. Like we're all kind of assuming like in the rumor mill
01:47:44 ◼ ► and the press that it's inevitable, like, Oh yeah, you know, when the goggles come out or, you know,
01:47:48 ◼ ► whenever this thing about it's, it's, it's stated as a when instead of an if, but the AR project,
01:47:54 ◼ ► I think has a significant chance of never actually shipping. I think the same thing about the car
01:48:00 ◼ ► project. I think the car has an even higher chance of never shipping. I think a much higher chance. I
01:48:04 ◼ ► would say I'd be shocked if the car project ever produces anything to, to, to the market.
01:48:13 ◼ ► reality kit exists. They've iterated on these frameworks, these, these necessary frameworks
01:48:17 ◼ ► for AR for years and years. And you know, they have us all holding their iPads in front of tables
01:48:21 ◼ ► and stuff. And it's like, see, isn't this stuff great? It's like, yeah, but we all know it's great
01:48:27 ◼ ► that they're working with technology, but like they're shipping it. Right. So it's, it would
01:48:30 ◼ ► seem really weird to work for literal years on AR VR tech framework, software applications, and
01:48:42 ◼ ► a product ish looking Oculus quest kind of thing. You're right. They could still choose not to ship
01:48:47 ◼ ► it, but like, unlike the car where they've shipped nothing. Right. I mean, carplay doesn't count.
01:48:51 ◼ ► Like there's nothing related to the car that has shipped. Like it's not like, Hey, self-driving for
01:48:55 ◼ ► your iPhone and put it pointed out the window of your car. And it will say where it would steer if
01:48:59 ◼ ► it was controlling the car. No, that doesn't exist, but we have that for AR. It seems like the car
01:49:04 ◼ ► project only exists to just churn through a whole bunch of people on money. Yeah. Well, I mean,
01:49:09 ◼ ► obviously someone somewhere thinks that they're on some track to something, but I think we saw
01:49:15 ◼ ► recently suggestion that the there's a lot of things like, Oh, don't you realize AR on the
01:49:19 ◼ ► car project are combined because there's obvious synergies with like in terms of heads up displays
01:49:34 ◼ ► but I have not heard any confirmation of that. You know, like if you know, like when, when Steve
01:49:39 ◼ ► famously came back to the company and he cut all like the advanced research projects that were like
01:49:43 ◼ ► just burning money, if that happened today, AR and the car will be the first things to get cut.
01:49:49 ◼ ► Yep. Well, I mean, AR might be one of those would probably end up being the iMac where he comes back
01:49:54 ◼ ► to the company and realizes there's this industrial design group that everyone's ignoring. That's
01:49:58 ◼ ► actually doing some cool stuff. I'm just not sure which one of whether it would be, he would come
01:50:02 ◼ ► back to the company and say, Oh, actually I'm going to cut a bunch of stuff, but these people
01:50:05 ◼ ► working on the car are doing great work or these people working on AR are doing great work and
01:50:09 ◼ ► that's the future. But yeah, the idea of them both continuing to exist and not ship anything for
01:50:14 ◼ ► many years under a belt tightening regime. But that's, that's a different Apple. Like that was
01:50:18 ◼ ► an Apple that was, that was going bankrupt in 90 days and needed to cut to save money. Current Apple
01:50:22 ◼ ► does not need to cut programs to save money to say the least. I mean, how they, the car thing
01:50:26 ◼ ► has probably gone through like three lifetimes worth of company money, right? I can't even keep
01:50:31 ◼ ► track of what iteration they're on. The head of the project just got poached by Ford and
01:50:35 ◼ ► apparently he was like, everybody liked him and he was doing a good job. So that's not good. So
01:50:39 ◼ ► are we on the fifth iteration now? I don't know. Anyway, no car at this event. Bold prediction.
01:50:56 ◼ ► they have to eventually ship what they've got for the AR thing. It's just a question of
01:51:04 ◼ ► why are you worried about Apple and gaming? The phones are great with games again, despite Apple,
01:51:14 ◼ ► the way you make a game for those platforms is not that different. The way you make a game for AR VR
01:51:21 ◼ ► is totally different and mostly doesn't make sense on the other platforms. That's right. You might,
01:51:27 ◼ ► you could say, oh, well, I don't touch my TV. Does that not make sense? There's whole classes of games
01:51:32 ◼ ► where you play them on the phone and yeah, you're using your fingers to touch a screen,
01:51:35 ◼ ► but actually it would be better with a controller, but AR VR, like the rules are entirely different.
01:51:41 ◼ ► Like the controls, you know, you're, you're looking around with your head in a virtual space
01:51:46 ◼ ► and you can't map that onto a controller very easily, unless you really narrow the genre. Like
01:51:51 ◼ ► you could pay maybe a half like Alex with, with a regular controller, but lots of other VR
01:51:56 ◼ ► experiences, like even things like Beat Saber or whatever, if you narrow that to not be a VR type
01:52:02 ◼ ► game, it would still work, but it would be like a really boring version of a guitar hero versus what
01:52:08 ◼ ► it really is when you actually play Beat Saber is it feels very different than Guitar Hero because
01:52:12 ◼ ► things are actually coming at you and you're moving your arms. I mean, I'm pretty sure I
01:52:15 ◼ ► could play Beat Saber with the Sega activator. Well, the fishing rod, right? No, it's the
01:52:20 ◼ ► octagon you put on the floor and you punch through it. Yeah. But like the thing, the game becomes
01:52:25 ◼ ► boring at that point, like, because in terms of a rhythm game, it doesn't have the complexity of
01:52:30 ◼ ► like even Guitar Hero with different frets and strings or whatever. The complexity comes from
01:52:34 ◼ ► the fact that you're there in 3d space and you're moving your actual arms to hit the thingies. That
01:52:39 ◼ ► is what makes that game. Take that away. And it's the world's most boring rhythm game. So,
01:52:43 ◼ ► you know, developing for AR would have to be, you know, the same thing. So the quest or whatever you
01:52:49 ◼ ► have to cultivate the development of games that take advantage of your hardware. It is not a
01:52:56 ◼ ► success to say, look, it's cut the rope in VR. Nope, nobody cares. It's just, you know, you
01:53:02 ◼ ► cannot keep selling threes to people. Like it's just, you have to, you have to actually make games.
01:53:06 ◼ ► It's like saying, oh, Nintendo 64 and here's Super Mario Brothers on it in 2d. No, you need Mario 64.
01:53:12 ◼ ► You need something that demonstrates why do I care about this new hardware? And even the just in the
01:53:16 ◼ ► realm of gaming that is definitely needed. And I'm hard pressed to think of an application other
01:53:21 ◼ ► than gaming for Apple to pitch a product like the Quest, unless you pitch it to businesses or
01:53:27 ◼ ► something. But that's, Apple doesn't care about that. Right. And they wouldn't be good at it. You
01:53:30 ◼ ► know, like that's like, that's a Microsoft thing, you know, let them do their HoloLens. And I don't
01:53:34 ◼ ► think, yeah, I don't think HoloLens has been too successful in that realm either. Maybe like a
01:53:37 ◼ ► creative fields, but just, it just seems like gaming is the only possible application of that
01:53:42 ◼ ► because you're not going to wear that out of the house. Right. It's not like, oh, I'll be able to
01:53:45 ◼ ► see directions when I walk through the city with a lunchbox in my face. Nope, not going to happen.
01:53:49 ◼ ► Right. So, well, and even gaming, I think what we've seen from VR so far is that there, it's kind
01:53:57 ◼ ► of like the Wii. You get some fun novelty time with it, but I don't think we're seeing a lot of
01:54:03 ◼ ► lasting, like must have games yet. And it's not like VR is super new. It's like, we've had decent
01:54:10 ◼ ► widespread VR hardware now for a number of years and we still are not getting a ton of like must
01:54:17 ◼ ► have VR games. And it's possible maybe the appeal of it is just not that, not as wide of an appeals
01:54:23 ◼ ► we originally thought. Don't you think we haven't gotten over the threshold of minimum viability
01:54:28 ◼ ► though? Because like, I mean, no, I think, I think the Quest and the Quest 2 are that because that,
01:54:34 ◼ ► that those are the first ones that didn't require a cable running out of your, your head to some
01:54:40 ◼ ► PC somewhere or a PlayStation or something like that is what, like the Quest series made VR easy
01:54:48 ◼ ► and palatable to consumers. I don't, I think you're underestimating the motion sickness factor,
01:54:53 ◼ ► right? The fact that if there's even the smallest amount of lag, which there still is, especially
01:54:58 ◼ ► on the Quest, which is not powerful hardware, that a whole section of the population, it's a
01:55:02 ◼ ► torture device. Like it's not, nothing is ever going to be fun. Well, yeah, but you're over indexing
01:55:06 ◼ ► on it though. No, but like if you, if you, if you get motion sick at all after like 30 minutes,
01:55:12 ◼ ► that's not a product you're going to want to buy or spend time with. Like nobody wants to feel that
01:55:17 ◼ ► ever, right? Let alone in something that you spent money on, right? It's not a fun experience. You
01:55:22 ◼ ► have to actually solve that problem. And it just flat out hasn't been solved because we just don't
01:55:26 ◼ ► have hardware that's fast enough and responsive enough not to induce motion sickness. Granted,
01:55:30 ◼ ► not in all people, but you're further narrowing the group. Like I think that it has been,
01:55:35 ◼ ► it's reached minimum viability for gamers, for a subset of gamers, but it has not reached minimum
01:55:40 ◼ ► viability for everyone who might enjoy an AR VR experience. It feels kind of like touchscreens,
01:55:44 ◼ ► where yeah, touchscreens existed for years and touchscreens didn't cause people to vomit,
01:55:48 ◼ ► right? Like literally didn't make them sick to their stomach, but they just weren't pleasing
01:55:53 ◼ ► to use. And the threshold, we didn't know it, but the threshold was essentially the iPhone.
01:55:56 ◼ ► And before the iPhone, if you said, are touchscreens so bad that they make people sick to
01:56:01 ◼ ► their stomach? No. Are they, you know, do you not like using touch screen ATMs? It's fine. Like,
01:56:06 ◼ ► whatever. But we didn't until we saw the, okay, now we pass the threshold. Like, I think it,
01:56:10 ◼ ► I think it'll only be obvious when we get there. And I feel like VR, if you have to make excuses
01:56:15 ◼ ► or caveats or some people just plain can't do it because they get sick to their stomach,
01:56:19 ◼ ► which I think is an incredibly debilitating, again, you know, an unpleasing touch screen
01:56:25 ◼ ► is much less offensive for someone to use than use this thing. And you're going to feel like you
01:56:30 ◼ ► want to puke in 30 minutes, right? That, that is, that is a barrier that has to be overcome. And we
01:56:36 ◼ ► more or less know what's needed to overcome it. It's just that it's too expensive and hasn't really
01:56:40 ◼ ► been solved for the general case. So I think the quest to solve the problem of like, Oh,
01:56:44 ◼ ► I don't want to set up all this crap in my house and it's too annoying, but at the cost of low
01:56:49 ◼ ► resolution and lag, which causes motion sickness in a fairly large subset of the population. And
01:56:53 ◼ ► then also you have a lunchbox on your face. So I'm, I'm looking forward to the day when the only
01:57:00 ◼ ► excuses for not using VR are lunchbox on your face and too expensive, right? But there are many more
01:57:07 ◼ ► excuses that it's lunchbox on your face, too expensive wires. If it doesn't have lag and makes
01:57:12 ◼ ► me want to puke. Anyway, going back to AR for a moment, I don't think Apple has to ship something
01:57:22 ◼ ► to pay off all the investment they've, they've put into it. I don't think all the investment they put
01:57:27 ◼ ► into it necessarily suggest they will ever ship something. All of the effort they put into it and,
01:57:34 ◼ ► and the hardware and the software and everything, I think they have found ways to make that improve
01:57:41 ◼ ► their other products. So like in the case of, of, you know, AR you have sensors, you know, things
01:57:47 ◼ ► like obviously cameras need to be very good. You have things like LIDAR being involved potentially,
01:57:52 ◼ ► you know, distance measuring and stuff like that. Well, they put all that in the iPhone and the
01:57:56 ◼ ► iPad and, and that has improved those products and those products have AR features. I think the,
01:58:02 ◼ ► the adoption of those features justifies their inclusion in those products, but it does not
01:58:10 ◼ ► justify an entire separate product line focused entirely on AR. Because what we've seen from those
01:58:15 ◼ ► features so far, and yeah, it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem in the sense that yes, I know
01:58:19 ◼ ► the AR features would be more compelling on glasses than they are on a phone or an iPad.
01:58:23 ◼ ► But what we've seen from these features so far, as they've been on the iPhone and iPad for quite
01:58:28 ◼ ► some time now, is that they enable some pretty cool use cases or some additional side features
01:58:35 ◼ ► like assisting the camera in autofocus or something like that. But they're not like taking over the
01:58:40 ◼ ► world. We're not seeing like massive must have things that, wow, this thing I can do in AR on my
01:58:45 ◼ ► phone is amazing. If only I could have the glasses strapped to my face to do this full time in the
01:58:49 ◼ ► world. Like we're not seeing that kind of thing come out of it. So if the AR project, you know,
01:58:55 ◼ ► in all of its different forms, only ever results in things that make iPhones and iPads better,
01:59:08 ◼ ► consider that just, well, we did all the, all the R and D, we developed all this stuff. This is where
01:59:13 ◼ ► it was most useful in our other products, not as a standalone thing. I mean, that makes it hurt less,
01:59:18 ◼ ► but like, I think everyone agrees that if you could get something that looked like a pair of
01:59:23 ◼ ► regular reading glasses, they could put a name over everyone's head. So you didn't forget their
01:59:26 ◼ ► names. That product sells a billion copies, right? So I know that's distant future, but like,
01:59:32 ◼ ► you know, it's an infinite timeline argument here. Like, yeah, the lunchbox may never ship because
01:59:36 ◼ ► they can just never find a use case for it other than gaming, but all this AR tech that, yes, it is
01:59:40 ◼ ► helping in their existing products or whatever. And it makes it hurt less that you're not shipping
01:59:44 ◼ ► the AR thing. And I think actually I've said on the past shows, it's super important that they're
01:59:48 ◼ ► actually shipping AR kit and all this VR stuff and refining it and making it better because that is
01:59:53 ◼ ► progress. That's going to help when you do finally get the glass, but eventually technology sometime,
01:59:58 ◼ ► probably in our lifetime technology comes where you can get a pair of glasses that has a screen
02:00:01 ◼ ► in them and just the name over people's heads feature alone, plus walking directions in a city
02:00:07 ◼ ► that thing sells as much as the Apple watch easy, right? Because then you've cracked it. We just
02:00:11 ◼ ► don't know when that time is. And that time definitely doesn't seem like September 14th.
02:00:15 ◼ ► Yeah. I think your, your point Marco, about all of this, all kind of off shooting of tech of the
02:00:22 ◼ ► technology is, is valid and important, like getting, you know, LIDAR, which is ostensibly
02:00:29 ◼ ► or presumably from an AR thing, but having it actually show up in iPads and then iPhones.
02:00:35 ◼ ► But I still think that having the driving force B if, and we're all three of us making huge
02:00:41 ◼ ► assumptions here, but having the driving force being an AR headset, I still think that's
02:00:50 ◼ ► technology and saying, Oh, you know what? We could try that on. We could try that on an AR thing.
02:00:54 ◼ ► It really feels to me knowing Apple the way I do that, that this is trickled down from AR to their
02:01:02 ◼ ► current stuff. And it really feels like they are still trying to make AR stick and they're still
02:01:06 ◼ ► throwing things against the wall and they're not going to sleep on the stuff that they've come up
02:01:10 ◼ ► with. They're not going to sleep on LIDAR and they're not going to sleep on any of these other
02:01:13 ◼ ► technologies, but nevertheless, they're still pushing toward that ultimate goal. You snarked
02:01:18 ◼ ► earlier and I'm, I semi agree with you that they're never going to release an AR headset. And I don't,
02:01:22 ◼ ► I don't think I would say never. And I don't think I would say infinite timeline, but I think it's
02:01:26 ◼ ► going to be years. And I think it's going to be very unimpressive at first. I do think the car
02:01:30 ◼ ► will never ever ship and I will, I will be stupefied if anything that even vaguely resembles a car does.
02:01:36 ◼ ► But I do think there will be an AR headset or glasses or what have you at some point. And I
02:01:41 ◼ ► think it's easy for all three of us to kind of poo poo it and say, Oh, it's not that interesting
02:01:45 ◼ ► or not that exciting. Cause it's one of those things, inventing the future. Like I remember
02:01:48 ◼ ► thinking, why would you want an all screen phone? That seems dumb, but you know, fast forward to
02:01:54 ◼ ► after the iPhone and it's clearly the way of the future. So I, maybe I'm just not as, as good at
02:02:00 ◼ ► envisioning the future as others, but I could totally see where, even though I agree with a
02:02:05 ◼ ► lot of the things you said that, Oh, this isn't that impressive. It isn't that exciting. What,
02:02:08 ◼ ► I mean, who cares if you have an arrow on the street instead, or an arrow in front of your face,
02:02:12 ◼ ► I should say, instead of like watching your phone as you're, as you're driving or walking or what
02:02:17 ◼ ► have you. But I can imagine experiencing it would, would lead me to a very different conclusion.
02:02:22 ◼ ► Yeah. The Mercedes with the heads up display that has little AR arrows that shipping now,
02:02:27 ◼ ► like it makes it me think that like the air team should actually talk to the car team because
02:02:32 ◼ ► they can never ship any goggles. Like Apple has better tech than Mercedes for doing AR,
02:02:39 ◼ ► I would assume based on all their experience with ARKit and everything, and certainly better
02:02:42 ◼ ► Silicon experience. And if they actually do make a car of any kind, it better have a heads up
02:02:48 ◼ ► display that does ARKit crap all over the city. Like that's it better have that cause the Apple's
02:02:52 ◼ ► got the technology, same company guys like work together. And if they never do ship a car, then
02:02:56 ◼ ► maybe they should just license that out to Mercedes or whatever. That will also never happen. Thanks
02:03:02 ◼ ► to our sponsors this week, Earnest things and ExpressVPN. And thanks to our members who support
02:03:07 ◼ ► us directly. You can join atp.fm/join. We'll talk to you next week. Now the show is over.
02:03:18 ◼ ► They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental. Oh, it was accidental. John didn't
02:03:27 ◼ ► do any research. Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental. It was accidental.
02:03:35 ◼ ► And you can find the show notes at atp.fm. And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them
02:03:47 ◼ ► @caseyliss. So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M, N-T-Marco-Armin, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-S-E-R-A-Q-S-A.
02:04:16 ◼ ► So we never got the chance to do Ask ATP during the main show, and we thought we'd pull a relevant
02:04:21 ◼ ► one into the after show. So Doug MacArthur writes, "Do you think the iPhone will ever drop the number
02:04:26 ◼ ► from its naming convention? What would cause Apple to do it? And what would be your ideal
02:04:31 ◼ ► new naming scheme? Maybe the crack marketing team at Apple will take notes." I think it's gonna have
02:04:37 ◼ ► to happen. We're not gonna have an iPhone 37, but I don't know. I can't think of a better scheme. I
02:04:43 ◼ ► mean, we could just have iPhone 2021, which is fine. It works for the laptops, but I don't know,
02:04:50 ◼ ► it's not great. What would cause Apple to do it? Maybe iPhone 13, maybe. Actually, what are the
02:05:12 ◼ ► I mean, certainly China wouldn't have been as important of a market back then as it is now.
02:05:17 ◼ ► Yeah. So here's the thing with the number. I think we talked about this before with video cards,
02:05:20 ◼ ► right? Everyone thinks like, "Oh, well, it's not gonna be like iPhone 765. That's silly. It's not
02:05:26 ◼ ► a good product name." Video cards have the same problem because they name their cards with numbers
02:05:30 ◼ ► and they keep making the numbers higher for better cards. And eventually, the numbers get too big and
02:05:34 ◼ ► they do what they call in the M&O world, they do a stat crunch and they say, "Okay, well, the numbers
02:05:38 ◼ ► is too big, so let's just make all the numbers lower." And they basically start over. I can't
02:05:43 ◼ ► remember. I think AMD did that. AMD/ATI did that. They were up to like the 9,000s and then they
02:05:50 ◼ ► started over at like the 1,000s. Now they're up to like 6,900 again. You can just go back down and
02:05:55 ◼ ► you say like, "Oh, they're gonna have another iPhone 4?" Well, you just put a number in front of it.
02:06:00 ◼ ► You call the N4 or the iPhone A4 or the 4A. Like there's all sorts of ways where it could technically
02:06:05 ◼ ► not be exactly the same product name, but the point is by the time you get numbers big enough,
02:06:09 ◼ ► no one remembers the iPhone 4 or it's ancient history. So you can literally just do iPhone 4
02:06:13 ◼ ► again. As for dropping the number, I know they did that with the iPad, but I feel like with the
02:06:17 ◼ ► iPhone, don't mess up a good thing. They finally got off of the stupid S thing. The number just
02:06:21 ◼ ► goes up every year. It's really easy. People say, "What kind of iPhone do you have?" I have a 12. I
02:06:26 ◼ ► have 11. 11 Pro. 11 is a little bit precious, but either way, it's fine. Every year, like last year,
02:06:31 ◼ ► was the 12 year. There was 12 Pros, there was 12 Minis, and there was plain old 12s. Don't screw
02:06:36 ◼ ► that up. Just keep going. You can go easily into the 20s or even the 30s and you're fine. I feel
02:06:40 ◼ ► like you only get into a problem when you get to 99 because you don't want to go 100 101. It's too
02:06:45 ◼ ► much of a mouthful. By that point, start over again with iPhone 1 or 2 or I don't know. There's
02:06:53 ◼ ► so many options you have because it's so many years in the future. I really hope they don't
02:06:58 ◼ ► drop it because if they do, it's going to be so hard to talk about. We have the same problem like,
02:07:03 ◼ ► "I have an iPad Pro. Which iPad Pro? Oh, the flat sided one. No, no, the original iPad Pro. No,
02:07:07 ◼ ► the 10.5 inch iPad Pro." It's exhausting and annoying. People do upgrade their phones on a
02:07:14 ◼ ► more regular schedule than they update their iPhones. I think the numbering is a feature.
02:07:18 ◼ ► I think Apple will keep it. I think Apple should keep it. I think I agree. They had a chance to
02:07:26 ◼ ► reset it when the 10 came out. It's obviously written iPhone X. They could have pronounced it
02:07:34 ◼ ► X like everyone else does. They could have had, "Okay, we have the iPhone X this year and the
02:07:38 ◼ ► next year we have the iPhone X2 and then iPhone X3 and so on." They could have done that. They didn't.
02:07:53 ◼ ► I don't think we really want, "Oh, I got the iPhone 41." That just seems a little bit clumsy.
02:08:04 ◼ ► Yeah. They could always go with years if they really wanted to. It's a little corporate
02:08:10 ◼ ► thanks to Microsoft. I don't know if they would actually end up doing that. There are other
02:08:14 ◼ ► options. Or they could just drop the number completely as Doug asks. I don't think they
02:08:20 ◼ ► would drop it completely because people know how old their phones are based on the numbers.
02:08:26 ◼ ► Most people don't even realize that the iPhone 8 and the iPhone X are the same age because
02:08:38 ◼ ► But people who have iPhone 8's think they're really old. Whereas people with iPhone X's
02:08:43 ◼ ► don't quite yet. Anyway, I think they have a little while longer before they have to change anything.
02:08:50 ◼ ► I think they can go through most of the teens but maybe past 17, 18, I think they're going to want
02:08:58 ◼ ► to switch by then. Well, 20 will be cool. The iPhone 20 will be like a celebration. Same thing
02:09:02 ◼ ► with 25. It'll be an exciting number like the Super Bowl when it's a nice round number. Everyone
02:09:07 ◼ ► gets excited about it. I think we've got many more years where the numbers will be just fine.
02:09:11 ◼ ► It doesn't mean they'll keep them but they should keep them I think because it's a system people
02:09:15 ◼ ► know and understand. In some respects because they have a new iPhone every year, a yearly thing would
02:09:19 ◼ ► make a lot of sense. In that case, they should sync it up with the last two digits. So this year
02:09:23 ◼ ► would be iPhone 21 and they've suddenly jumped a bunch of digits. The problem with the yearly
02:09:28 ◼ ► approach though is that they tend to keep around the old models for a few years to sell them for
02:09:34 ◼ ► cheaper. So I think that might discourage, I mean maybe they want to discourage it. That's why they
02:09:38 ◼ ► don't do 2021. They just call it 21. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, maybe. But then they'd be
02:09:44 ◼ ► skipping from 13 to 21 and that's burning a lot of numbers they want. I think they'll just do a
02:09:48 ◼ ► stat crunch. Like you said, you can put a number, a letter or a number in front of it or just go
02:09:52 ◼ ► back because by the time they're up into the mid-20s and they go back to 4, no one's gonna be,
02:09:57 ◼ ► "The iPhone 4? I already own that iPhone 4. What year, grandpa?" Like it's so long ago,
02:10:01 ◼ ► no one cares, right? Yeah. The real question as people putting in the chat is did they change the
02:10:06 ◼ ► little comma separated number like iPhone 20 comma 1, 21 comma 1 or whatever, right? That's the
02:10:12 ◼ ► developer nerd question. Same thing we have with like 10.15 versus 10.16 versus 11 and all that
02:10:18 ◼ ► crap. There is actually a kind of annoying problem of like internally what representation do we have
02:10:25 ◼ ► for device names and numbers. It's worse with version numbers because people do version
02:10:28 ◼ ► comparisons. Although I think Apple has good macros for most of that now. But yeah, that's
02:10:33 ◼ ► not a concern for consumers. This is mostly a consumer question, but it will be interesting
02:10:44 ◼ ► All right, so I'm doing a survey for the Accidental Tech Podcast. I was wondering where do you live?
02:10:51 ◼ ► I live in Ocean Beach, New York. Would you say that's on Long Island? That is not on Long Island,
02:10:59 ◼ ► it's on Fire Island. All right, and for the record, where'd you grow up? On Long Island.
02:11:05 ◼ ► Okay, thank you. Where do you live? Ocean Bay Park. Would you say that you live on Long Island?
02:11:16 ◼ ► So is Fire Island part of Long Island? No. No. Municipality, yes, but it's not connected to.
02:11:31 ◼ ► No, we're on Fire Island. No, it's completely different. Where are you guys from? I'm from
02:11:37 ◼ ► Bayport, New York, or Bayport, Long Island. East side of Long Island. Thank you very much.
02:11:50 ◼ ► where would you say we are right now? The albatross in Ocean Beach. Would you say we are on
02:11:57 ◼ ► Long Island? No. No, we're in Fire Island. In Fire Island. No, I wouldn't call this Long Island.
02:12:06 ◼ ► And where are you from? From Long Island. Long Island, Seyville. And would you say we are on
02:12:14 ◼ ► Long Island right now? No, I guess I wouldn't say Long Island. No, I would say Fire Island.
02:12:21 ◼ ► And then if someone who didn't know the area was like, "Well, where is Fire Island?" I'd be like,
02:12:25 ◼ ► "It's off of Long Island." Like, I think that's how I would word it. So it's not on Long Island?
02:12:31 ◼ ► No, it's not on Long Island. Would you consider it part of Long Island? No, I like to think that
02:12:38 ◼ ► I'm better than everybody on Long Island, so no. I try to remove myself as much as I can.