00:00:00 ◼ ► Hey, uh, America's still here because I can't tell this is a horrible day in the political American world and
00:00:11 ◼ ► Works true. We had a great morning. Yes, it's been a roller coaster. Yeah, we're gonna glide right past this because you all need a break
00:00:29 ◼ ► Pared Pahlin stone which I believe is actually supposed to be pronounced Fred Flintstone, right?
00:00:50 ◼ ► Fred Flintstone continues this EQ is the audio output to compensate for frequency loss according to the audiogram
00:00:56 ◼ ► Even with relatively minor hearing loss this gave the 62 year old his 16 year old years back and newfound enjoyment of music
00:01:03 ◼ ► Using the audiogram provides personalized and much more nuanced EQ adjustment than the built-in iOS presets now just to be clear John
00:01:15 ◼ ► But this is related to someone suggesting that Marco look into the EQ settings for for the AirPods max said he tried them
00:01:24 ◼ ► Apparently this is a pluggable system. So you can you know, these these apps these hearing test apps
00:01:46 ◼ ► I never released it back when I when I had my like temporary hearing injury a few years back
00:01:52 ◼ ► I made a hearing test app so I could tell like as I was getting better if I was getting better and how
00:01:58 ◼ ► It plays different beeps at different frequencies and different volume levels and the raise your hand if you can hear it
00:02:04 ◼ ► Yeah, basically what you did what you did to come through? Yeah. So anyway that will give you a
00:02:19 ◼ ► I don't know which because I suspect hearing test apps are a terrible plague filled with scams on the App Store like so many categories
00:02:26 ◼ ► I've put in a link to one such app that one listener sent then I assume this one is not a scam
00:02:40 ◼ ► Play with an app to see what it says about your hearing if the results turned out that you're you know
00:02:45 ◼ ► Have difficulty hearing certain frequencies. You can make your iPhone accommodate for that and help you hear that better
00:03:14 ◼ ► Apparently or possibly if you know as long as the format is documented somewhere and then you could
00:03:22 ◼ ► What if I want to boost this frequency range only and no others, you know like that that actually could be really interesting
00:03:28 ◼ ► This sounds like it should be a feature of overcast buried in the setting somewhere. You've already got the code for it
00:03:35 ◼ ► But you know, ideally this would be a system setting like instead of those like ancient
00:03:44 ◼ ► That are just like fixed like pop rock treble booster or whatever like instead of those
00:03:49 ◼ ► Also, just offer an EQ with like, you know, maybe make it a 10 band EQ have 10 sliders across whatever it is
00:03:56 ◼ ► I mean, you know, I'd go parametric. I'm a nerd but no one else would but like, you know
00:04:00 ◼ ► It the the processing power is trivial to do EQ and I know cuz I wrote one into voice boost
00:04:10 ◼ ► It also like by offering the presets that they have versus offering it like a custom EQ
00:04:22 ◼ ► The phone is constantly doing all sorts of operations that are way more complicated than running a basic bi quad filter
00:04:31 ◼ ► So it's actually really not that hard to do with modern hardware without even noticing the overhead
00:04:42 ◼ ► But I'm assuming this just goes into the system audio pathway and if you install one of you one of these
00:04:49 ◼ ► Every sound that your phone makes I'm assuming through any of the audio system gets processed through this thing
00:04:54 ◼ ► So I think what overcast would have to do is basically be a little miniature hearing test app that produces one of these autogram files
00:05:04 ◼ ► Overcast doesn't have the ability to jam that audiogram into the system preferences thing. Yeah, I would assume
00:05:22 ◼ ► just need to build in a custom EQ to overcast for people who want that which is actually a
00:05:28 ◼ ► Somewhat frequently requested feature right and I have the entire engine to do that is already written
00:05:37 ◼ ► There's just no UI to adjust the parameters of the EQ and that's that's all that's what I have to do
00:05:50 ◼ ► This is being recorded on a mostly untested environment because I have upgraded to big sur
00:06:00 ◼ ► However, it has not been edited as yet that being said Jim who does the editing for analog and many other shows that you
00:06:07 ◼ ► know that you all enjoy has said that he did crack open my file my files and everything seemed to write but
00:06:12 ◼ ► Sorry Marco if I make a terrible edit for you, it would not be the first time and unfortunately probably won't be the last
00:06:29 ◼ ► It's there maybe I can actually I guess was first boot and I needed to I believe bless the audio hijack
00:06:39 ◼ ► Yeah, and in order to do that, I needed to go into system preferences and unlock the security
00:06:44 ◼ ► Preference or whatever it is and I needed to type in my computer password and so, you know audio hijacked
00:06:50 ◼ ► It was either audio hijacked or the OS itself knew that I might want to do this, you know
00:07:06 ◼ ► I think I know what to do and I think I know what's about to happen and sure enough I typed in my password
00:07:15 ◼ ► No dice and as it turns out what I needed to do was reset my SMC. Does this sound familiar to anyone? So
00:07:23 ◼ ► We also got some some feedback from Tom bridge, which is the follow-up item that this all leads into
00:07:28 ◼ ► Tom says I just had to deal with the same situation as John with regard to the SMC reset
00:07:32 ◼ ► There's even a tech note at Apple for this quote if you can't unlock settings and system
00:07:40 ◼ ► Mac OS Big Sur 11.1 your Mac with Apple t2 security chip had it has an issue that requires you're setting SMC
00:07:46 ◼ ► System preferences should accept your password after you reset the SMC. There's a link in the show notes to all of this
00:07:59 ◼ ► Yeah, and then plug it back in and wait five seconds and then press the power button. Yep. That is correct
00:08:03 ◼ ► That is the official guidance and some a bunch of other people wrote in to tell us about this like the reason
00:08:08 ◼ ► The reason why SMC reset has anything to do with this or anything to do with t2 stuff is apparently, you know
00:08:14 ◼ ► Any any dialogue that asks for authentication that could potentially be tied into touch ID because you know how you can use touch ID to use
00:08:23 ◼ ► but not all of them but any one of them that sort of triggers the subsystem that says hey if you had a Mac with touch
00:08:27 ◼ ► ID and that was all registered. We would ask you for your fingerprint that all goes through the t2 and
00:08:32 ◼ ► somehow the big Sur update hoses something having to do with a good old bridge OS running on the t2 and
00:08:47 ◼ ► To remove power from it and say guess what t2 now you're stopped because you don't have any electricity
00:08:57 ◼ ► What's wrong with the t2 after the big Sur update that it needs to be reset? I don't know
00:09:05 ◼ ► The bottom line is that those author are all dogs tie into the t2 because of touch ID and if they're hosed you must reset
00:09:18 ◼ ► It's why it's more complicated on laptops because you can't take the batteries out, right?
00:09:24 ◼ ► That's why again look at the tech note follow the instructions for your specific computer to reset the SMC
00:09:29 ◼ ► Don't just assume because you have a desktop. It's unplugged because maybe you don't have a thing with a t2 in it indeed
00:09:39 ◼ ► Andrew Odinger wrote in to tell us that the Nintendo Famicom had a microphone built into the second controller only Famicom is
00:09:49 ◼ ► First existed as the Famicom which was short for a family computer in Japan and it looked different
00:09:54 ◼ ► But the controllers were very similar little you know little rectangle the NES rectangle with the d-pad and the two buttons
00:10:00 ◼ ► Anyway, it had two controllers with comically short wires in them that you couldn't remove
00:10:09 ◼ ► So Andrew says like many of us in the US I first learned of it when playing led the Legend of Zelda
00:10:13 ◼ ► With game manual stated that an irritating enemy the polls voice hated loud sounds however the NES had no microphone
00:10:20 ◼ ► So everybody in the US made futile attempts to use other weapons to defeat it usually the recorder or flute in Japan
00:10:26 ◼ ► However one only needed to yell into the microphone eradicated the polls voice and we'll have a link to a YouTube video
00:10:31 ◼ ► They I guess they didn't change the manual because the manual back in the old days video games came with manuals that you could read
00:10:40 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly right Marco exactly right, and if you saw like oh this enemy hates loud sounds and in the game
00:10:48 ◼ ► But little did you know that you what they expected you to do was yell, but of course you couldn't yell in the u.s.
00:10:57 ◼ ► You can't shoot them with arrows and the only way you can defeat them is by yelling into the controller
00:11:01 ◼ ► So that is the oldest instance. I've seen of Nintendo at least using microphones in games
00:11:12 ◼ ► I should think about her notes on my controller comments because I thought of more things once we were off the air that I forgot to
00:11:21 ◼ ► Which is mostly just an accessibility issue because it's not heavier enough that anyone will notice but someone like me who has
00:11:30 ◼ ► The weight of the control actually matters like I'm not holding the controller up in the air when I play part of me playing
00:11:35 ◼ ► With the consoles that I get to the rest my sort of my arms on my legs like the controller is in my lap, right?
00:11:46 ◼ ► It's being supported by your fingers in your hands and I feel the difference like a little tiny bit. It's not
00:11:54 ◼ ► But these slightly heavier controller is the price you pay for the really cool rumble stuff
00:12:03 ◼ ► Terrence was one of many people to write in to give me some advice on how I could make the ps5 UI less sort of
00:12:07 ◼ ► Ad banner II I was annoyed that there are things in my face that I didn't wanted to see when I turn on the UI
00:12:11 ◼ ► These big tiles that are telling me about new games or whatever and sometimes they were mostly relevant
00:12:19 ◼ ► Apparently there's a mechanism in the PlayStation 5 UI where you can quote-unquote follow like like following on Twitter a game
00:12:29 ◼ ► I never knew about that feature but basically any game that you own becomes followed by default and
00:12:34 ◼ ► That makes some sense in terms of why am I seeing things about destiny and stuff because they own destiny, right?
00:12:39 ◼ ► But also if you are a subscriber to PlayStation Plus you get a lot of free games as part of PlayStation Plus
00:12:46 ◼ ► You know, they're just they're just yours, you know for paying the monthly fee, which is a great deal actually
00:12:50 ◼ ► Especially if you haven't played those games usually they're good games with older games
00:12:53 ◼ ► Anyway, I ended up quote-unquote following things like God of War or fortnight and stuff that I don't play on the PlayStation
00:13:04 ◼ ► Fortnight thing in my face constantly every time I turn my computer it was because I was following fortnight
00:13:14 ◼ ► You can't unfollow as far as I'm aware the PlayStation store and I don't want to see the store telling me about stuff either
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00:15:26 ◼ ► We have to do like a little bit of vocabulary for the next section so we have a lot of feedback which was really good about
00:15:41 ◼ ► we're going to talk about the galaxy's largest black hole and that is Apple's feedback system and
00:15:55 ◼ ► basically a bug report you use an app called feedback assistant and you create a feedback in
00:16:05 ◼ ► So in so radar is the app that Apple uses that you that they use to do their or track their bugs and things of that
00:16:14 ◼ ► Individual instance you an individual bug or ticket if you will is was also also often called a radar
00:16:23 ◼ ► Just if you have something bad happen Apple needs to be able to recreate to some degree
00:16:29 ◼ ► What was going on in your system at the time and that's not an unreasonable request and a sysdiagnose
00:16:34 ◼ ► Basically says when when the user does some you know particular incantation which varies based on OS and device
00:16:49 ◼ ► To a very very large file usually a couple hundred mangs at least which you can then upload to Apple so they can try to
00:16:56 ◼ ► Piece together what was going on at the time? So that's just a little vocabulary to get out
00:17:01 ◼ ► So hopefully we all are on the same page and if you recall all of us were probably me more than most
00:17:07 ◼ ► We're lamenting the fact that if you create a radar with Apple if you create a bug report with Apple
00:17:13 ◼ ► it is seriously the galaxy's largest black hole and it's very frustrating from a user's perspective and especially from a developer's perspective because
00:17:33 ◼ ► Here's my perspective on this and what what John and Marco and I are gonna go through over the next several minutes
00:17:41 ◼ ► I believe you mean several different feedbacks. That's right several different feedbacks from several different people
00:17:57 ◼ ► Again from either a current or former Apple employee this individual writes you file a radar and then get a reply saying quote attach
00:18:05 ◼ ► Assist diagnose quote this can optimistically be taken as an acknowledgement that someone believes your bug is real
00:18:10 ◼ ► But that they have no idea how to reproduce it on demand or fix it. It can also have other meanings though
00:18:18 ◼ ► Take very optimistic in the example that I gave, you know, they believe your bug is real
00:18:23 ◼ ► Well, they have no idea how to reproduce it. Well, I attached a sample project that you can build
00:18:27 ◼ ► The only thing this project does is reproduce the bug and plus there was instructions on how to use the sample product to reproduce the bug
00:18:34 ◼ ► So that's not why they asked me for a system. I can understand like case you said when the vocabulary section
00:18:46 ◼ ► Right and just in case it wasn't clear like John said a sample project means it's something that you can run that an Apple person
00:18:58 ◼ ► There should be no need for anything else because you run this little app be that for your Mac or for your iOS device or whatever
00:19:07 ◼ ► In hypothetically if everything goes according to plan it will it will make that bug happen
00:19:23 ◼ ► We keep saying sample project when we say project we mean an Xcode project. We give them the source code
00:19:34 ◼ ► They have the full source code to your app, which hopefully is like 20 lines long here. I'm reproducing the bug
00:19:39 ◼ ► Sometimes I have to be instructions because like launch the app then do this then do that and here's my expected behavior
00:19:44 ◼ ► And here's the actual behavior. So we're we're giving them an explicit way to reproduce it
00:19:48 ◼ ► We've already narrowed the bug down to the smallest possible case and they have the source code
00:19:57 ◼ ► So that's it's all the more frustrating when you take the time to make a new Xcode project
00:20:01 ◼ ► Narrow the bug down yourself get it to the point where you have the minimal set of code that reproduces the problem and still nothing
00:20:13 ◼ ► 50-step recipe and you realize that oh I used a bad ingredient somewhere because I can tell it tastes like garbage
00:20:20 ◼ ► Well, then you need to go through this recipe and like do it all over again in order to figure out
00:20:26 ◼ ► ingredients was was wrong and that's kind of what a lot a lot of times happens is you you have a fully functioning app like take
00:20:33 ◼ ► Overcast for example, I don't remember Marco if you know off top of your head how big overcast is but I'd assume it's you know
00:20:41 ◼ ► I think it's like 80,000 or something. There you go. So there's effectively 80,000 ingredients in this casserole
00:20:56 ◼ ► so imagine how frustrating it is for us on this side of the table when we put in the work to
00:21:05 ◼ ► That they can just run immediately and see exactly what's going on. And then the response we get in return is oh
00:21:12 ◼ ► Can I have a cyst diagnosed? No, no, you can't have a cyst diagnosed. You've already got what you need. No, you can't
00:21:20 ◼ ► Moving on from the Apple people time of bug is important when you take a cyst diagnosed because as you can see in the console app
00:21:25 ◼ ► There are often thousands if not tens of thousands of logs per second this individual writes
00:21:33 ◼ ► The variation in times between when people experience bugs and when they launch a cyst diagnosed the tools for analyzing cyst diagnosed logs
00:21:43 ◼ ► The amounts of effort it takes to write down the time you saw a bug is much smaller than the effort it takes to find
00:21:51 ◼ ► Right. So that's the explanation now. Here's how Apple asks for a cyst diagnosed in the feedbacks that I have
00:22:05 ◼ ► Additionally comma please note the exact time ex colon 1 slash 1 slash 1 9 space 12 colon 51 space p.m
00:22:15 ◼ ► All right. This is another tidbit from someone else according from another piece of feedback on feedbacks
00:22:21 ◼ ► If someone asked you when it was taken that's really interesting because that means someone dramatically misunderstood the directions. Yes, the directions say
00:22:31 ◼ ► Immediately after the issue reproduces now, here's that God there are so many there are so many problems here in terms of this communication, right?
00:22:38 ◼ ► Certainly wasn't clear to me. Although it is now clear from listening to the feedback things like
00:22:43 ◼ ► Capturing a cyst diagnosed like you invoke a thing. There's different ways to invoke it as Casey said, but you invoke a thing. I
00:22:56 ◼ ► it's worth the people who work in whatever this department is to have essentially a text text expander shortcut or a
00:23:08 ◼ ► here's what a cyst diagnosis right a cyst diagnosed what happens is you trigger this thing and
00:23:18 ◼ ► We've been collecting data and when you trigger cyst diagnosed it dumps the data that has been collected that whole time
00:23:23 ◼ ► Right that wasn't clear to me because from my perspective especially the first few times I did this and like oh I invoke a cyst diagnosed
00:23:31 ◼ ► It must be taking stock of the whole system and say I'm just gonna dump the current state of the system to a big file
00:23:37 ◼ ► but apparently that's not what cyst diagnosed does suppose it's diagnosed as take all the data that we've been gathering in the background and we're
00:23:47 ◼ ► But either way when you're trying to explain what you want the users do and why especially with this whole
00:24:03 ◼ ► And what time am I noting like down to the point of like you're supposed to be knowing the time that the bug happened
00:24:14 ◼ ► So that means the time of the cyst diagnosed would also essentially be the time of the bug because they're telling me to capture it immediately
00:24:22 ◼ ► You know, there's a big time gap between when the bug was reproduced and when they launched cyst diagnosed
00:24:30 ◼ ► To do this once have a couple people sit down at a table and say we're gonna ask for millions of people for cyst diagnosis
00:24:37 ◼ ► Can we have a web page that explains what a cyst diagnosis and then have this text expander snippet that says?
00:24:48 ◼ ► Hypertext to link one of those words or say if you want more information on what a cyst diagnosis and how to trigger
00:24:54 ◼ ► Oh, you can't get those no hypertext and then the feedback system as far as I can tell but either way
00:24:58 ◼ ► It's done so often don't leave it to the discretion of the person sending the thing to say something like this
00:25:03 ◼ ► Like please note the exact time and the exact time example they give is you know month day year hour minute
00:25:12 ◼ ► In 60 seconds is thousands and thousands of logs and if you're expecting me to note down to the second when something happened the
00:25:19 ◼ ► Clock in the menu bar doesn't show seconds by default and if I'm gonna check on my other device, they're not necessarily synchronized
00:25:26 ◼ ► It's like well, what do you why do you want to know this? What are you trying to get at?
00:25:36 ◼ ► You have a need but you're not able to communicate that need to me in a way that I can do what you want
00:25:40 ◼ ► I mean everyone is just frustrated. So building on that you said there's no thing that explains this diagnosis. That's half true
00:25:49 ◼ ► That's bug reporting and it lists and this is about profiles and logs and it lists probably a hundred maybe even more
00:26:01 ◼ ► diagnosis or whatever for now included in that is different entries for sysdiagnose for
00:26:07 ◼ ► For iOS for Mac OS etc. The super cool part is though if you want instructions on how to do this
00:26:19 ◼ ► So you need to have an Apple developer account just to see the instructions on how to create a sysdiagnose
00:26:26 ◼ ► I mean doesn't it like I'm glad that they have this page somewhere but like you got to connect the dots
00:26:35 ◼ ► That's the perfect opportunity to link people to more information so they can have background and contacts and you can't link to all of it
00:26:47 ◼ ► They at least know why you're asking for this and they have the context the things that I think they should communicate is
00:27:02 ◼ ► If we're gonna ask you for something additional like the time the reason we're asking that for you is because maybe the bug happened five
00:27:07 ◼ ► Minutes ago and we need to know that right that but that needs to be communicated in line and then you link to the web page
00:27:19 ◼ ► Anyway, I'm to a communication. So Apple screeners don't have direct access to your feedbacks
00:27:25 ◼ ► They go through a middle party that especially with the betas attempts to consolidate similar feedbacks into one bug
00:27:31 ◼ ► When developers want to ask questions of originators or request more logs, we have to go through that middle party
00:27:37 ◼ ► It's a really clunky setup that makes it feel like you're like there's a lot of time going by without anything happening
00:27:46 ◼ ► And John has filed a bug that lands on my desk and I want and I don't know it's John because of this
00:27:52 ◼ ► You know intermediary layer if if I want to get more information from this anonymous source of this bug I can go to
00:28:06 ◼ ► Can you provide us a system I got help us or whatever it is that that me the developer the Apple developer wanted
00:28:15 ◼ ► The the guy that talks to engineers I talk to engineers because there's this middle layer. It makes everything clunkier
00:28:26 ◼ ► Well developer relations is not a good middle layer for any kind of reasonable general-purpose solution
00:28:36 ◼ ► Most people have no idea who if anybody inside might be like their relevant developer relations
00:28:49 ◼ ► Years of my career not having one then I've then I would like have somebody who seemed to be my dev relations person
00:29:01 ◼ ► Eventually contact you about something or you know, God knows or if you have to ask somebody inside like, you know
00:29:20 ◼ ► Solution that relies on like oh well, you know the real process for this is you contact this person and they contact the rig
00:29:34 ◼ ► The impression that people inside Apple have of what it's like to be outside is incomplete or incorrect
00:29:51 ◼ ► I'm lucky that like because of my big loud mouth. I have a little bit more access to most people most developers have zero
00:29:57 ◼ ► Absolutely. There's no one they know inside the company. They could like email or you know, somebody you know on Twitter
00:30:03 ◼ ► You could DM or anything like that's that's very unusual for most developers the impression I've gotten over the years. Is that
00:30:19 ◼ ► To actually provide like full service access to all their developers. There's too many of them
00:30:25 ◼ ► But I don't think the solution to that is you know, know the secret password and you know
00:30:31 ◼ ► whisper people in bars in California sometimes and maybe occasionally get an email address like
00:30:35 ◼ ► That's not a great solution to this problem. I know why they do it, but I wish they would
00:30:48 ◼ ► Scale that division so that they can provide real developer support to a bigger level to more people
00:30:53 ◼ ► You know, it's not even clear to me because given how little experience I have actually being a real developer for our platforms that this
00:31:00 ◼ ► middle party referred to in this feedback is in fact that relations probably it is I mean if that's your guest and that's probably
00:31:17 ◼ ► Communicating directly with customers because they might say something they're not supposed to do it
00:31:20 ◼ ► Right, so have a buffer in between there, but as this last bit to be read said it can you know, it's a clunky setup
00:31:26 ◼ ► It makes you feel like there's not there's a lot of time going by without anything happening because what's actually happening is you know
00:31:35 ◼ ► responsible for the bug has a clarifying question and they asked the middle party and the middle party eventually sees that question and then
00:31:42 ◼ ► Asked it of you and then you see it and then it goes back and so this is all bouncing back and forth
00:31:49 ◼ ► Over communication can help right? We don't we're not privy to these internal conversations
00:31:59 ◼ ► You're the the middle party has seen your bug the middle party has passed your bug down to the responsible team
00:32:08 ◼ ► You know a response back up to the middle party then the middle party has sent you a response and that would mean you have
00:32:13 ◼ ► Like six updates or whatever where previously you had zero and none of them reveal any secret stuff about going inside Apple
00:32:21 ◼ ► Communicate over communicate doesn't mean you need to reveal secrets, but let people know something is happening
00:32:32 ◼ ► Maybe the middle party just copies and pastes between the internal and external bug reports
00:32:36 ◼ ► So what you see is literally comments and questions from the person looking at the issue
00:32:39 ◼ ► Or maybe the middle party is paraphrasing what the engineer is saying and maybe something gets lost in translation
00:32:45 ◼ ► This is a downside of having the middle party and it was mentioned like especially in beta is that part of the responsibility?
00:32:51 ◼ ► So if there's like 50 people asking about the same thing rather than dumping 50 of those on the dev team
00:32:55 ◼ ► That's presently busy working on the the thing that's in beta condense it down into one. So now this middle party is responsible for
00:33:06 ◼ ► You know capture assist diagnosed immediately after the issue reproduces and add the time
00:33:10 ◼ ► You get that because maybe the middle party doesn't understand why this being asked for and like in the game of telephone
00:33:16 ◼ ► It starts to warp over time and maybe they make their own personal text expander snippet that says suddenly the wrong thing to make people
00:33:22 ◼ ► Angry that they're being asked to know the time and be not understand why they're being asked at all
00:33:26 ◼ ► With regard to bugs that linger forever without updates if you follow a bug during the run-up to shipping a new version
00:33:31 ◼ ► It's very possible that your bug will be assigned to the next version which typically means the perceived risk reward
00:33:37 ◼ ► Dynamic doesn't favor fixing this bug in the version. We're trying to get out the door right now
00:33:42 ◼ ► If a bug is still in the books when a team gets to the final run-up before shipping a new version eventually someone on a bug
00:33:47 ◼ ► Review board will ask the room would we block the shipment of this version because of this bug?
00:33:52 ◼ ► The powers that be will debate the relative merits and risks and come up to it with an answer to that question
00:33:57 ◼ ► If that answer is no then the bug will likely be moved out of this versions backlog and into the next version again so far
00:34:05 ◼ ► The answer to would we block the shipment of the software because this bug will almost certainly continue to be no based on the justification
00:34:22 ◼ ► exceedingly likely to never block shipping and this Apple person says I might go so far as to say that unless there is a
00:34:29 ◼ ► Specific champion for fixing that bug on the specific team empowered to fix it. It is very likely to remain in this purgatory
00:34:40 ◼ ► This is this is such a failure familiar dynamic of software development in large companies and it comes down to
00:35:00 ◼ ► I know I want to do X and also do Y right whatever that feature is because customers have requests for features
00:35:05 ◼ ► Features you can come up with ideas for features internally they can give you a competitive advantage
00:35:11 ◼ ► So when you have to plan your releases and plan what you're gonna work on next or whatever feature work is where it's at
00:35:20 ◼ ► This doesn't block shipping and you know, so we'll just put it back in the backlog and then you know that comes up again
00:35:27 ◼ ► So problem this time and just eternally gets there and the reason it looks like a queue
00:35:30 ◼ ► prioritization thing to Marco is because and you know in computer parlance of the idea of like having a low priority test gets starved because
00:35:42 ◼ ► Unlike a queue that has a simple set of rules organizations have values that are embodied by their plans feature work is prioritized because feature
00:35:55 ◼ ► You can brag about on a slide and like everybody in the entire organization is incentivized to
00:36:05 ◼ ► It's it's never-ending pile first of all and second of all when you put up on the slide
00:36:19 ◼ ► Becomes almost company destroying and then finally the organization wakes up to the idea of oh, we're living in a house of cards
00:36:30 ◼ ► 20% of your schedule for tech debt from now on to the future like that will over hold and
00:36:34 ◼ ► We're gonna do this big release where we're gonna burn down tech debt and everybody's new, you know
00:36:39 ◼ ► ours are you must burn down x percent of your tech debt and then at the end of that release everybody gets to go up
00:36:47 ◼ ► Here's how much better we did and then you forget about tech debt for two more years, right?
00:36:54 ◼ ► The only time that ever comes to a head is let's work like this where we prioritize feature work over tech debt
00:37:05 ◼ ► Starts to affect our customer satisfaction. Hey random stuff that used to be reliable isn't reliable anymore, and it's never getting fixed
00:37:20 ◼ ► So we're constantly thinking about this stuff. But eventually if you neglect this stuff too long
00:37:24 ◼ ► organizationally eventually even your regular customers will start to get a feel for maybe your stuff isn't as
00:37:34 ◼ ► But internally it's so hard to like the things that they described here in case he was going through it
00:37:41 ◼ ► It combine that with the internal incentives for advancement and promotion and recognition
00:37:48 ◼ ► It makes it almost impossible to essentially quote-unquote do the right thing. That's what that's why these people are
00:37:54 ◼ ► responding like if your bug has a champion inside like if there's someone inside the organization who knows it's the right thing to do to
00:38:05 ◼ ► Forgo the time they could spend doing something that is more likely to get them a razor or promotion or a good review
00:38:13 ◼ ► That's that's one way things get fixed and this is the sign of an unhealthy organization and this dynamic I described
00:38:23 ◼ ► It's the job of the organization to figure out how to counteract that. It's a natural force for that to happen
00:38:29 ◼ ► So organizations try to have cultures that have countervailing forces that try to be try to systemically oppose this
00:38:37 ◼ ► Inevitable force because left to people's own devices. They will always do the wrong thing in this case
00:38:42 ◼ ► So building on that back to the Apple people the converse of the quote once a blocker never a blocker quote problem is the phenomenon
00:38:49 ◼ ► Of once noticed by Steve or Tim or someone important this bug must be fixed no matter how risky or challenging fix it now
00:39:01 ◼ ► Have a cool feature whatever. Well, guess what if your boss or your boss's boss or the super duper big boss suddenly notices something
00:39:08 ◼ ► You're now incentivized because now fixing this stupid bug gets me recognition with the big guy and that's why you know
00:39:15 ◼ ► I'm gonna get a promotion now because it's right and that's that is a not a scalable system be a terrible system in general and
00:39:30 ◼ ► And that's why you know rang to the press never helps or whatever has they said in the in the app store things
00:39:36 ◼ ► that's why when something gets big on Twitter or something somehow it magically gets fixed because
00:39:40 ◼ ► Someone who's important suddenly picks their head up from their spreadsheets and says what is everyone talking about?
00:39:47 ◼ ► What is what is this thing with name recognition and people getting numbers after their devices in their home?
00:39:56 ◼ ► DNS is and we replaced this part of the system that does naming and it used to be called mDNS and now it's a new
00:40:02 ◼ ► Thing called discovery day and by the time you don't explain it and someone hopefully says
00:40:14 ◼ ► I don't know. It was some big celebrity complaining about discovery D problems - I think directly at him cook
00:40:20 ◼ ► And that's how they got fixed. Yeah, like this and this this this sounds so dumb, but like
00:40:32 ◼ ► Monarchies or dictatorships than they are like democracies, right? Which is fine. They're not systems of government
00:40:38 ◼ ► You're just you're trying to find a way to like make computer products and sell them to people
00:40:46 ◼ ► Lot of important decision-making is concentrated in the top of that org chart on the top of that pyramid
00:40:51 ◼ ► And you can shortcut the whole thing by making Tim Cook notice literally anything that's annoying you like I imagine like Tim Cook's
00:40:59 ◼ ► You know like her and anyway high executives like the people in their life like they're you know
00:41:04 ◼ ► Spouses or relatives or children should like take advantage of this and say this bug is annoying me
00:41:09 ◼ ► And then like bug their parents or uncle or something or you know aunt about it until their aunt goes back to work and says
00:41:21 ◼ ► but in reality lots of things happen that way and it is it is at once embarrassing for like the org and it's like
00:41:32 ◼ ► This should never have to happen but on the outside you're like, I'm just glad it's fixed. So true
00:41:40 ◼ ► Can you see if this reprose and the latest version you can you reproduce this in the latest version of Mac OS iOS whatever?
00:41:49 ◼ ► After release to all bugs that have been punted out of that version possibly into next version
00:41:54 ◼ ► It's an attempt to get the bug off the books or otherwise find a reason to close it if you don't reply in a timely manner
00:42:06 ◼ ► The assumption will be that it was a side effect fix or it was obviated by something else and it is very likely to be
00:42:17 ◼ ► So the Apple person writes, you know, if the bug isn't fixed and you care about it ever getting fixed
00:42:26 ◼ ► Like it should be opt-in versus opt-out system or it's like if we don't hear for you and we'll assume everything's fine
00:42:31 ◼ ► It's like why were you to assume everything's fine. Like you didn't even check whether you fixed it
00:42:35 ◼ ► You're just like fingers crossed. We made a bunch of other changes. Maybe we fixed your bug, too
00:42:39 ◼ ► Why don't you check for us and tell us and this is what I referred to last time as like a you know
00:42:50 ◼ ► Outstanding bug backlog and see if we've accidentally closed some of these bugs by stuff that we did
00:43:00 ◼ ► This person writes that said it's an attempt to get the bug off the books, right? This is more
00:43:06 ◼ ► Surely one of the metrics that the people in this part of the order measured on is how many outstanding bugs there are how big
00:43:15 ◼ ► And so there are massive incentives to close bugs. So something like this internally makes perfect sense
00:43:24 ◼ ► But I bet some of them we fix like by accident because we just change stuff around or whatever
00:43:31 ◼ ► Is this still a problem if they don't answer assume it's fixed and then close them and that'll really increase our metrics for bug closures
00:43:45 ◼ ► Unfortunately software quality is usually measured by number of outstanding bugs. So you see the problem with the system
00:43:50 ◼ ► Alright another reason that your bug might be closed without being fixed is that someone in a bug review says there's a bug here
00:43:58 ◼ ► I believe the real bug is fundamentally different from what's being described in this report and this report is more likely to create confusion
00:44:07 ◼ ► This is another example of how bugs filed by outsiders can disappear behind the wall forever
00:44:11 ◼ ► I imagine it's frustrating to the person who filed the original and loses visibility into the fix. Yeah
00:44:16 ◼ ► There's another communication thing like tons of bug reports are gonna be bad. Most of them are gonna be bad
00:44:31 ◼ ► But I think I know what the real bug is. Sorry to consolidate. So that's great. Fine. Do that. It's awesome
00:44:36 ◼ ► Just communicate back and say here's what happened to your bug just like that paragraph that was just written
00:44:44 ◼ ► One part of this giant elephant that is this bug and so we've consolidated them all down to this bug
00:44:49 ◼ ► Which unfortunately because we're Apple you can't really keep track of but just just so you know
00:44:55 ◼ ► It got folded into this larger bug number and then if you're nice Apple maybe communicate
00:45:00 ◼ ► Hey, if you want to know what's happening with this larger bug, you don't have visibility into it
00:45:03 ◼ ► But I'll tell you when the bug is being passed down to a dev team when they're looking at it
00:45:10 ◼ ► These are all communication things that you can do without revealing anything about no secrets
00:45:16 ◼ ► No showing other people source code all the things they say the reason why we can't know what's happening with bugs
00:45:23 ◼ ► So another thing that developers especially are told a lot is if you want to change made file radar, you know
00:45:30 ◼ ► make a feedback and even if you know that other people are doing the same thing do it anyway, because apparently
00:45:41 ◼ ► So if Apple sees that a hundred people or a thousand or a hundred thousand people have all filed the same feedback
00:45:47 ◼ ► Like for example, if a hundred thousand people all wanted to autocorrect to stop correcting
00:45:53 ◼ ► F*cking to ducking then maybe if there's a hundred thousand people filing that radar eventually they will fix it
00:46:02 ◼ ► Anyway with regard to that the Apple people write some groups use this bug voting thing by duplicate count
00:46:10 ◼ ► So by figuring out how many duplicates of the same bug there are some groups use this to inform their decisions
00:46:16 ◼ ► It's mostly true for radars with incredibly large dupe counts as in in the tens of thousands and those really only happen when they can
00:46:32 ◼ ► So stack trace is here's what the the system was doing at the time or what the program a specific program
00:46:41 ◼ ► Like a few minutes ago it had done this and now it's trying this and then it and then it's about to try that and so
00:46:50 ◼ ► So coming back to this Apple systems to look at stack traces and sys diagnosis attached to radars and automatically dupe radars based on that
00:46:56 ◼ ► Info, this is the most likely likely way for any given radar to accumulate a notably high dupe count
00:47:02 ◼ ► This is another gap in human power versus automation this type of automation sounds great again
00:47:10 ◼ ► We need a way to deal with this flood. Like how do we how do we rationalize this? How do we lump them together?
00:47:15 ◼ ► How do we sort of sort through them and find out which ones are valid which ones are spam?
00:47:20 ◼ ► Which you know, like you need to look at them all but there's just so many of them and it takes expertise to know how to
00:47:31 ◼ ► Look at the stack traces and the sys diagnosis and look for similarities and lump them together
00:47:42 ◼ ► Let's say there's a bug where the stack trace and the sys diagnose show no similarities because the bug is not straightforward
00:47:51 ◼ ► That is perhaps entirely reproducible maybe 50 those people put in sample projects or great instructions and how to reproduce it
00:47:58 ◼ ► But you can't lump them together in an automated way because the stack traces vary because it happens when people use different programs
00:48:05 ◼ ► Or it happens in different times like there's no way to do it in an automated way if duping only works or only works
00:48:10 ◼ ► Well when you're lucky enough that the problem is straightforward enough to have a sort of an identifiable fingerprint
00:48:17 ◼ ► And the sys diagnose and the stack trace that's bad and that shows that we need I mean having automation is great
00:48:23 ◼ ► But then you need more human power to help that work because otherwise you could get a very important and terrible bug
00:48:34 ◼ ► But you don't know that because your automated system doesn't know how to lump them together
00:48:44 ◼ ► So often the most favorable favorable way to interpret that request is that they need more info to diagnose your problem the less favorable way
00:48:50 ◼ ► To interpret that is that it's a request for you to provide information that may automatically reveal the bug to be a dupe
00:49:01 ◼ ► Include more information in the hopes that our automated tools will somehow get you into the fast lane to being fixed because I as a human
00:49:10 ◼ ► But maybe if you're lucky your sys diagnose will put you into a bucket with a thousand other things and someone will finally look
00:49:16 ◼ ► Indeed so a couple thoughts from the Apple people on my specific bugs, which again the feedback numbers will be in the show notes hint hint
00:49:23 ◼ ► The Apple people write I don't doubt that this bug happens or that it's extremely annoying
00:49:32 ◼ ► Even 1% of those users experience this bug and then 1% of those users that experience the bug file radar
00:49:39 ◼ ► It would still be a hundred thousand radars and a hundred thousand radars would definitely get someone's attention
00:49:47 ◼ ► Which tells me it's probably not as pervasive as it might seem to you. Okay, first of all, that's certainly possible
00:49:52 ◼ ► Second of all, even if it's only for me it is infuriating that my internet communicator can't friggin communicate
00:49:59 ◼ ► Like this this isn't like a oh, I'm annoyed at the way this looks or oh the dialogues in Big Sur trash
00:50:06 ◼ ► Which they are it's it's something that's fundamentally breaking my ability to use this device
00:50:16 ◼ ► Which I know they have I would hope that someone would have bubbled this up as a big frickin problem
00:50:22 ◼ ► Additionally to think that even 1% of 1% of 1% people file radars is preposterous. Nobody files radars
00:50:30 ◼ ► I don't usually follow rate at file radars because I've been trained not to because they're black in holes
00:50:38 ◼ ► Also, like that number like we would notice hundred thousand radars only if they're properly categorized as a dude
00:50:52 ◼ ► Feedback on this particular thing is it was noticed like there was an iOS release where in the fairies
00:50:58 ◼ ► We're using two iOS releases. Thank you very much. Well, it's not like Apple gives very extensive release notes
00:51:05 ◼ ► So anything that makes it into release notes had to be serious enough that they thought to mention it
00:51:17 ◼ ► So they didn't know about Apple absolutely knows about it. They've tried to fix it. They just haven't succeeded yet. Yeah, so
00:51:31 ◼ ► Think the thing that's most frustrating to me and John I think you had said this earlier right right at the beginning of this conversation
00:51:44 ◼ ► Like obviously there are problems and that's what you've been enumerating this whole time
00:51:49 ◼ ► None of these things is necessarily bad like using a dupe count as a kind of ad hoc voting system
00:51:55 ◼ ► I think I can understand how someone someone would get to that, you know point of view or get to that conclusion
00:52:27 ◼ ► And yes, I understand that you are a special rank-and-file engineer that knows that it's probably not great for outsiders
00:52:34 ◼ ► But I don't think most rank-and-file engineers and I know a handful of them. I've talked to them about this a little bit
00:52:47 ◼ ► Offensive it is for for Apple to say give us a sample project, please and then you spend hours of your time
00:52:56 ◼ ► Building that sample project attaching that sample project putting that sample project on radar and then just disappears into a black hole
00:53:06 ◼ ► Fundamentally broken and for Apple to shrug it off because it works for them internally is also
00:53:15 ◼ ► Fundamentally broken if you're an Apple person listening to this and you think I'm bananas then I encourage you
00:53:22 ◼ ► To look at it from my perspective for a half second because I see it from your perspective as best I can and yeah
00:53:27 ◼ ► It doesn't seem that bad from your perspective. It seems actually probably pretty decent but from our perspective, it's trash
00:53:33 ◼ ► It's offensive and it's so frustrating in the same way that I'm so fired up about the god-darned
00:53:38 ◼ ► Piss-poor documentation that Apple's been putting out lately or lack of documentation that they've been putting out lately
00:53:43 ◼ ► It's offensive and the fact that nobody cares enough to fix it. It's it's a problem to me
00:53:50 ◼ ► It's a problem. It's worse than that. They excuse it and they did. Thank you. That's an excellent point
00:53:59 ◼ ► They excuse it and it makes me so angry and granted. I'm a little on edge given what's going on this particular Wednesday
00:54:06 ◼ ► Nevertheless, it's just so frustrating and yes, I'm glad you made that point mark. I'm glad you jumped in because that's exactly it
00:54:13 ◼ ► It's it's it's excused within Apple that oh, well, it's the best we got and you know, it works for us internally
00:54:23 ◼ ► If you want to be the Apple that you think you are where you can do no one nothing you can do no wrong
00:54:34 ◼ ► Or the link to link me to Android bug reports where you can see almost all the internal communication. I
00:54:40 ◼ ► Understand that's never gonna happen with Apple. I get that but this is what what John was talking about earlier
00:54:48 ◼ ► This is this is exactly it like there's there's got to be amount in an amount of communication between all of it and zero
00:54:55 ◼ ► And I gotta figure out that I got I got to believe that there's some way that Apple can figure this out
00:55:04 ◼ ► Continue to try to talk Casey down off his ledge to say Apple does know about your bug and they're trying to fix it in
00:55:11 ◼ ► Surely one of the harder kind of bugs to fix because it has to do with interfacing with a third-party thing
00:55:20 ◼ ► It's super frustrating because it is a fundamental function of the device and it's not something off to the side as the point you made
00:55:31 ◼ ► It's like I don't think it's actually emblematic of of the larger problem the larger problem
00:55:37 ◼ ► What made me actually decide to put in this giant follow-up aside from all the feedback we got about it was that?
00:55:45 ◼ ► Spoiler alert for upcoming year and review things but we have some friends who do some year and review
00:55:50 ◼ ► Type things on their websites about Apple and one of the questions they ask is to rate Apple's
00:55:57 ◼ ► Software quality and every year is the question. How would you write the software quality? Whatever it is one to ten or you know
00:56:09 ◼ ► It's a thing like this kind of report card is exactly what I was talking about before but like the incentives inside the organization
00:56:15 ◼ ► that you know feature work gets prioritized, but they're also there's the customer sat and there's the idea of software quality and
00:56:21 ◼ ► Software quality like just like in this questionnaire is like well, how do I measure software quality for an entire company?
00:56:32 ◼ ► How do I measure software quality on the level of an individual project right and that gets into all of these sort of?
00:56:52 ◼ ► especially ones that are internally focused like how many bugs are or whatever like there's just so many ways to
00:57:02 ◼ ► What actually matters is do customers feel like you're putting out a quality product does your product do what you say?
00:57:08 ◼ ► It's supposed to do if someone got an iPhone and they're trying to talk to the family in SMS and they're missing messages as far
00:57:12 ◼ ► As they're concerned this product doesn't do one of the basic things that it's supposed to do and they're gonna rate your software quality low
00:57:19 ◼ ► but on the flip side of that is if someone gets one of your products and it more or less does what it's supposed to but
00:57:24 ◼ ► There's tons of annoying little minor bugs that make them think maybe they're using the computer wrong
00:57:33 ◼ ► Those things accumulate too and that is the hardest thing to measure like do customers feel like when I get your thing
00:57:39 ◼ ► It's just you know, I won't I won't have to think about this stuff or do they feel like they're being gaslit by your software
00:57:46 ◼ ► I can drag this but I can't drag that and when I click that it highlights sometimes sometimes it doesn't and
00:57:51 ◼ ► Sometimes it pauses for a brief time and sometimes you know, obviously things like crashes and stuff like that are easy to measure
00:58:04 ◼ ► I think about it mostly in terms of like how many questions have I had to field from relatives about?
00:58:13 ◼ ► Not a crasher not a data loss bug not something that's gonna show up any metrics, but it's an annoying little thing
00:58:19 ◼ ► How many of them are there there's always gonna be some right but if they build up to a certain level it
00:58:30 ◼ ► All of a sudden people start to get cranky and have these big long rants on podcasts and everything
00:58:41 ◼ ► I understand that it's hard to measure we're working in software my entire life. It is not easy to get this right. That's the challenge
00:59:00 ◼ ► Quite a roller coaster over these past few decades on software quality and it's difficult for me to connect
00:59:06 ◼ ► The software quality that Apple puts out with anything that's visible externally hardware quality design
00:59:14 ◼ ► The products they choose to make and don't choose to make are much easier to connect with the larger
00:59:18 ◼ ► Environment of the industry and what people say on earnings calls. Oh, we want to be in this space. We don't want to do that
00:59:25 ◼ ► We're gonna stop making printers. We're gonna start making cars. We think AR is the next big thing all that makes sense
00:59:30 ◼ ► But so our quality is like what's affecting that like they've been making Mac OS for a long time
00:59:39 ◼ ► That has a bunch of windows on the screen and a menu bar and a pointer and like runs programs and it hasn't changed that
00:59:45 ◼ ► much but the software quality is all over the place and I just wish I just wish they could
00:59:56 ◼ ► their hardware quality they've been making iPhones for a long time and the hardware quality of iPhones has been
01:00:01 ◼ ► Amazingly consistent when there's problems they address them quickly and they don't repeat the same mistakes
01:00:18 ◼ ► You know the hardware people will disagree but software is way more complicated than hardware and hardware is it's more
01:00:23 ◼ ► You're more able to ratchet up the knowledge curve. We've never worked with aluminum before so it's weird
01:00:31 ◼ ► And in fact all our products made out of machined aluminum you can get better at it and ratchet your way up
01:00:35 ◼ ► Whereas no matter how long you're doing software you never get to the part where like software that's easy
01:00:40 ◼ ► It's always gonna be hard, but there's these big wild swings that I feel like have to be related to some internal organizational
01:00:48 ◼ ► Functions that crop up become fires and get extinguished smolder for a while then flare up again much like the wildfires in California
01:01:01 ◼ ► And I think it's one of the most important things that Apple needs to address because they do almost everything else
01:01:16 ◼ ► It's not functional high-ground Marco blog post or whatever year that was from but I feel like
01:01:21 ◼ ► Because they're so close to being great and because like the m1 hardware is amazing and everything
01:01:26 ◼ ► You just you just feel like I'm just if you could just spend one release just knocking down bugs you would
01:01:34 ◼ ► Annoyance and say okay now we're back to the regular number of bugs instead of like everywhere you look
01:01:46 ◼ ► I kind of wish you didn't have this problem because you keep putting your bug number and your feedback number and the show notes your
01:01:52 ◼ ► Problem is so much worse than mine, but I want mine to be fixed. Oh, I'll put one in for you
01:01:55 ◼ ► Don't let my feedback number. It's a cosmetic bug. I feel bad. It's a cosmetic bug, but I but it
01:02:04 ◼ ► I feel like it would be easy to fix if someone who knew something about the relevant frameworks looked at it
01:02:11 ◼ ► I would love to know that too just after you fix Casey's bug, which is way more important someone. Please look at my cosmetic bug
01:02:25 ◼ ► But you probably haven't heard that term think back to when you needed a CSV template to import data online
01:02:31 ◼ ► Or that one time you had to email an excel file that might have had sensitive data in it
01:02:40 ◼ ► Companies spend exorbitant amounts of money trying to fix it usually with expensive implementation and services teams
01:02:47 ◼ ► Luckily our friends at flat file are solving data onboarding for companies of all sizes
01:02:53 ◼ ► They've just interviewed over a hundred companies and compiled a 2020 state of data onboarding report that quantifies this hidden business cost
01:03:11 ◼ ► So while you might not have heard of data onboarding chances are you or someone you know has experienced it
01:03:35 ◼ ► Moving on can we hopefully find something a little more awesome to talk about Marco. Let me live vicariously through you
01:03:44 ◼ ► What's going on with your equipment your setup your your working world how's things looking
01:04:06 ◼ ► Thunderbolt 3 ports this Thunderbolt hub. Is that right? No, the hub is like the the smaller one
01:04:13 ◼ ► Oh, okay the dock even though I would still call this a hub, but the dock people call it a dock
01:04:19 ◼ ► So whatever anyway the comparing it to the Cal digit. It's a little early to say they've only been using it for about three days
01:04:36 ◼ ► It's basically the Cal digit and you know in a reasonable competitor unless you really need those that like massive Thunderbolt pass-through
01:04:43 ◼ ► Which I wish I don't so far. I'm very curious right now. I'm keeping them both for now because I'm curious
01:05:00 ◼ ► If I could pass it through it and I've heard mixed reports from people some people say you can't really pass the XDR through anything
01:05:13 ◼ ► It probably comes down to things like what cables you have and stuff like that. So I'll see how that goes
01:05:31 ◼ ► Anyway, so but you know the LG you've passed it through this this thing just fine the OWC thing because it requires mentioned because it requires
01:05:48 ◼ ► So I could send it back to for trade-in if it booted normally the boot screen would be fine on it
01:05:53 ◼ ► But the restore I guess app whatever the restore environment is called when you do a Mac OS system restore by holding down command R
01:06:04 ◼ ► And so I like I had to stop using it for that environment and plug my monitor directly into my Mac
01:06:11 ◼ ► The Mac Mini that I was restoring rather than going through this dock because like again like certain things support it
01:06:17 ◼ ► But it's very new and certain things don't support it doesn't that doc only work with Big Sur 11.1
01:06:21 ◼ ► Yes, we mentioned last time so maybe your recovery environment is not Big Sur 11.1, right?
01:06:26 ◼ ► So like and I don't know what if anything ever updates the recovery environment on a system
01:06:34 ◼ ► But I also it seemed I had like, you know after I said clamshell mode has been 100% perfect for me
01:06:45 ◼ ► It was a little bit buggy like weird stuff happened when I plugged and unplugged like for a few hours and then it was fine
01:06:52 ◼ ► Now I had zero such bugs of that type on the Cal digit and I've had a couple on this one on that first day
01:06:59 ◼ ► So, I don't know if it's coincidence. Maybe I would have had it either way. Maybe it's something else the other weirdness
01:07:04 ◼ ► I'm having with this member if you remember correctly the issue I had with the Cal digit
01:07:08 ◼ ► It seemed fine in most ways except that I couldn't get the built-in Ethernet port to connect at more than a hundred megabits
01:07:18 ◼ ► Like you could force it to a hundred and it would connect if you forced it to gigabit or auto connect
01:07:39 ◼ ► So it will auto connect like if it auto senses it will auto connect it will connect to only 100 megabits if
01:07:49 ◼ ► It will say okay and it will report that it is connected via gigabit through the system preferences hardware pane
01:07:56 ◼ ► But if I look on the switches control panel like that the ubiquity switch that I'm plugging it into the switch says nope
01:08:04 ◼ ► Don't know enough about that to know what could cause that the disagreement between the device and the switch as to what speed it's running at
01:08:13 ◼ ► Interesting when I was home, I brought back with me two useful diagnostic things. I have the original
01:08:22 ◼ ► USB-c Ethernet adapter that Apple started selling in 2016 when they went all USB-c on their laptops
01:08:40 ◼ ► 2012 was when they were first retina MacBook Pro came out and that is when they dropped Ethernet off
01:09:07 ◼ ► Practice than the old Thunderbolt Ethernet adapter and that if you have a thunderbolt 3 slash USB-c Mac
01:09:14 ◼ ► That if you actually connected the old thunderbolt Ethernet adapter through the two to three adapter
01:09:20 ◼ ► It was faster than using the native USB-c adapter. I did actually try all of these things and
01:09:29 ◼ ► Thunderbolt one adapter plugged in through the the you know, the Thunderbolt two to three dongle
01:09:45 ◼ ► So this tells me it's not the cable. It's not the jack. It connects at full gigabit speed
01:09:51 ◼ ► Also when I plugged it into the Mac Mini, which was built in Ethernet port full speed gigabit
01:10:00 ◼ ► Same thing it works full speed every time so I know it's not like the problem is not outside of the computer
01:10:08 ◼ ► the switch is fine the wiring that runs through the wall is fine like all that should be fine because
01:10:14 ◼ ► Many things can connect by gigabit and transfer just fine and you know running a speed test gets me right up approaching gigabit speed
01:10:30 ◼ ► So, I don't know what's going on with Ethernet going over these Thunderbolt dock things something's up
01:10:40 ◼ ► Oh if you just reboot and reconfigure your things with the Thunderbolt bridge port one and two or port zero and one and then if you
01:10:50 ◼ ► I did all that and it didn't start working but second of all even if that would ever work
01:11:05 ◼ ► When I plug it directly into a computer with an Ethernet port, it does work perfectly and reliably
01:11:10 ◼ ► I don't know what it is with these with the you know, the things that are built into these Thunderbolt docks
01:11:22 ◼ ► So I'm a little disappointed in the Ethernet situation on all these Thunderbolt products so far
01:11:30 ◼ ► And the reality is my computer where it usually sits is about I think nine feet from the Wi-Fi router
01:11:37 ◼ ► Granted there's a wall between them, but it's so close that really like when I'm on Wi-Fi
01:11:51 ◼ ► I will wire it because it's best to wire stuff if you can if it's convenient to do so just to get it
01:11:59 ◼ ► But also just gets it off the wireless network to free up the you know radio bandwidth for other devices in the meantime
01:12:05 ◼ ► If it ends up this Wi-Fi situation or the Ethernet situation is too finicky through these docks
01:12:18 ◼ ► Being beneficial for Apple to make a set of products that constitute a complete ecosystem
01:12:26 ◼ ► Things like this if you're gonna make all your laptops have all all the same shape ports on them because you're like well
01:12:34 ◼ ► All right. Well barco so far has bought in two of the you know, most commonly recommended most
01:12:44 ◼ ► Ostensibly do a thing and he's having trouble making both of them do a thing and you would imagine that if Apple sold anything like
01:12:51 ◼ ► This something that you could connect a Mac laptop to that offers a bunch of ports that their thing would work
01:12:56 ◼ ► That the Ethernet would work without being configured because they're Apple right the benefit of Apple making the whole thing
01:13:01 ◼ ► We talked about in the context of the m1 the great benefits of when you control the entire stack from top to bottom
01:13:12 ◼ ► But in practice you have to find one that you can buy and see just buy and try and know it's got a problem to
01:13:17 ◼ ► Most people aren't Marco and don't just keep buying products until they find one that works
01:13:21 ◼ ► Usually what happens is you buy one you grit your teeth and buy a hundred or two hundred dollar Thunderbolt thing
01:13:32 ◼ ► oh am I gonna go through the hassle trying to return this and get my money back and go through their tech support and just
01:13:37 ◼ ► That's not the experience people want to deal with if Wi-Fi was like that. Luckily. It's not luckily
01:13:46 ◼ ► but you know, I guess the Ethernet is more narrow now that everyone uses Wi-Fi, but I feel like
01:13:51 ◼ ► the promise of these laptops hinges on the product the promise of the things you connect to them and
01:14:05 ◼ ► They just simply do the job. They're supposed to do reliably all the time has been a problem
01:14:14 ◼ ► Because you know if you see them talk on stage about it, or if you talk to them in person
01:14:18 ◼ ► It's like well, we've got these great Thunderbolt ports. What are you complaining about? This is what we're complaining about
01:14:22 ◼ ► He's just trying to get Ethernet to work. It shouldn't be rocket science. Yeah, and and I shouldn't I shouldn't need to be
01:14:32 ◼ ► Well, this one this one won't negotiate to give it speeds or maybe I have to reset my SMC three times every time
01:14:43 ◼ ► You know having and this is why ultimately this is why I complain about having like multi having too few ports on the laptops
01:14:54 ◼ ► They they tend to work better like when you when you don't need these extra adapters and peripherals and docks and hubs and dongles
01:15:13 ◼ ► to me there's a massive difference between something that works most of the time and something that works all the time and
01:15:25 ◼ ► When there are options that work all the time in that same solution like in that same role that there is something I can do
01:15:42 ◼ ► I have had it for years and so, you know when when something like this comes out and to go
01:15:46 ◼ ► Well, this is it's fine. As long as you you know, jump through hoops every so often like no, that's that's not that's not a solution
01:16:06 ◼ ► So I'm actually happy for you to pull one of them out of there. Oh great reduce the backlog
01:16:10 ◼ ► So this came in from listener Brian a few days back Brian asks, how does Marco sell his unwanted computers?
01:16:18 ◼ ► He's mentioned in a few episodes that he sells them and I'm wondering if uses something like eBay
01:16:22 ◼ ► Craigslist or some other networking tool to find buyers is just word of mouth and people market personally knows who are in the market
01:16:36 ◼ ► Don't really want to go to the hassle of selling on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace. Thanks
01:16:40 ◼ ► So I want to I want to address this because I just sold stuff and I have a lot more stuff I want to sell
01:16:46 ◼ ► And and a lot of people are going through this of like oh crap the new m1 max are out and they're awesome
01:17:06 ◼ ► This is a very common problem of like not wanting to deal with eBay or Craigslist or Facebook like that's those are all
01:17:20 ◼ ► but the good thing about going through something like eBay is that if you have something that's somewhat specialized like
01:17:31 ◼ ► Apple laptops to Apple, you know fans that follow me fairly easily and I'll tell you how in a second
01:17:47 ◼ ► So something like, you know, I wanted to sell a while back. I had this pair of road wireless
01:17:55 ◼ ► the little wireless belt packs and the wireless receivers and everything and I tried to sell it and I just never got any
01:18:03 ◼ ► Even though I have a decent number of followers on Twitter where I was trying to sell it
01:18:13 ◼ ► You can you can kind of tailor like how you're selling things where you're trying to go based on
01:18:25 ◼ ► eBay's basically the only game in town because eBay will get you the highest chance to sell the most obscure or specialized or
01:18:39 ◼ ► Then as you if you have access to more people and if something is more broadly applicable
01:18:53 ◼ ► Easily off to me as possible. I don't want to deal with anything. I don't want to deal with people like, you know
01:19:04 ◼ ► And and so if you are going to go into eBay to like sell a laptop you are taking a risk
01:19:47 ◼ ► Oh, and by the way to judge what something's actually worth. This is another use of eBay go to eBay
01:19:57 ◼ ► There's a separate checkbox on the search page for sold items because what you want to see is what what is this thing actually sold?
01:20:08 ◼ ► go through one of those brokers like Apple or you know, Mac me an offer or whatever and
01:20:17 ◼ ► see whatever if these things are going for on eBay and offer on Twitter for like 20% less than that and
01:20:25 ◼ ► Usually people will jump on that soon enough if there's a market for it at all now granted
01:20:29 ◼ ► This is not you know available to most people like that. The Twitter option is not available to most people
01:20:43 ◼ ► again, like either less money for doing like the basically they traded into the dealer or how like
01:20:51 ◼ ► These are same problems when you have to deal with when you have to sell a car like if you ever sold it sold a used
01:20:56 ◼ ► Car it's exactly the same trade-offs of like you can trade it into a dealer or like a bulk buying company
01:21:03 ◼ ► But the advantage of those things is it's almost no hassle. There's almost no risk and it's really easy
01:21:15 ◼ ► I probably could have gotten maybe a few hundred dollars more if I would have sold it privately
01:21:19 ◼ ► but I'd be it would take much more work and I'd be taking a risk that the buyer might scam me and
01:21:25 ◼ ► You know and so I actually might not make that much more or the amount of time that I would have to spend
01:21:48 ◼ ► From you know Apple or whatever because it just it saves you the trouble, you know again
01:21:51 ◼ ► It's just like it's just like when you have a car when you trade it into the dealer because you don't want to deal with people
01:21:56 ◼ ► but it is often better in the long run for you and finally better than selling it at all is
01:22:03 ◼ ► if you don't need the money for it that much and if there's someone in your family who needs a computer or a phone or
01:22:10 ◼ ► Whatever just give it to them and you know, you can be the person you're in your family who gives
01:22:16 ◼ ► Gently used computers to people who really need new ones, but never buy them themselves
01:22:25 ◼ ► Not TIFF because that's she wouldn't let that fly but it's a family, you know, like, you know extended family
01:22:33 ◼ ► This is kind of a rambling way of saying that there's lots of different ways to sell stuff
01:22:36 ◼ ► eBay is best if you want the highest price but are willing to take the most risk and do the most work or if you
01:22:51 ◼ ► And if you want something very low effort and low risk, but it'll also give you kind of a low price
01:22:57 ◼ ► That's when you do things like trading into Apple or the various other sites that buy stuff or let you trade stuff in
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01:25:47 ◼ ► Sounds like one of those gifts that you get for someone that's really kind of a gift for yourself. Yeah, she got you a bowling ball
01:26:21 ◼ ► Notably chose to get a laptop a gaming laptop from the wonderful Razer with a Z company Razer
01:26:32 ◼ ► Whatever the Razer gaming laptop at 15 inches is called that was for sale about a year ago
01:27:27 ◼ ► There's lots of black and neon colors and jagged edges and a lot of Razer mice that look like
01:27:40 ◼ ► The laptops are actually pretty boring black slaps for the most part and they're pretty nicely made with neon lights that come through the keyboard
01:27:46 ◼ ► And you know and a green a green logo on the cover and whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so it's had this gaming PC and
01:28:10 ◼ ► At some point in the spring I decided I need to play Minecraft because this is what my family is doing
01:28:19 ◼ ► Relate to my son and nobody's talking about and spend time with him and you know other parents, you know
01:28:28 ◼ ► Like whatever their kid wants to do the parent tries to do it with them. Well, my kid wants to play Minecraft all day
01:28:49 ◼ ► Keyboard and mouse for that kind of like, you know open world and you know crafty kind of game
01:28:54 ◼ ► Like she knew I was comfortable with that. And so I said great. I would love to learn on that
01:29:10 ◼ ► Where's Tiff and it's looking around for Tiff using the windows face ID thing. It's looking around
01:29:13 ◼ ► Hey Tiff, where are you Tiff and every time it was me and I had to type in the password manually
01:29:32 ◼ ► I was getting used to it. I was really enjoying playing Minecraft with the family and occasionally by myself and
01:29:45 ◼ ► You know, whatever new sim cities or city skylines, you know, like maybe I want to try some of these other games
01:30:03 ◼ ► She was gonna get me a gaming PC and she kind of hinted like well if you were gonna get one
01:30:07 ◼ ► What would you get and I know I looked at the options the funny thing is like the laptop
01:30:36 ◼ ► I don't really need a touch screen. I'm a little curious about but I probably wouldn't use but OLED that's interesting
01:30:44 ◼ ► because we frequently play in a room that has a lot of sunlight coming into it during the day and
01:30:51 ◼ ► That makes it hard for me to do anything in dark areas in the game on Tiff's LCD gaming PC
01:31:12 ◼ ► I would have to like not do my quest in the nether in Minecraft until nighttime because I couldn't see it
01:31:18 ◼ ► And I thought well OLED could be better for that because all that's really good at you know
01:31:33 ◼ ► Well, it is actually the opposite when it comes to televisions because it can't get as bright
01:31:41 ◼ ► LCD television because OLED can't become bright enough to overwhelm it but it sounds like what your problem was is
01:31:51 ◼ ► It's that the dark parts you get like I'm assuming you get like glare on the screen and their screen looks like it's gray
01:31:56 ◼ ► because yeah the sort of matte finish on the screen or whatever the light is reflecting off of it and so you have two problems
01:32:04 ◼ ► Can I see the bright parts but two is do the black part suddenly look really light gray because it's catching light
01:32:10 ◼ ► So the OLED with its actual black blacks is gonna help there and hopefully on a what I assume is a small laptop screen size
01:32:22 ◼ ► Compete with the sunlight and and the reason I wasn't looking I wasn't considering desktop desktop options here for lots of reasons
01:32:39 ◼ ► How good could that really be for for you know, PC gaming and the answer was pretty damn good
01:32:45 ◼ ► Like it could do a lot especially, you know, we're not playing it's incredibly demanding games here
01:32:51 ◼ ► You're playing Minecraft try Microsoft flight simulator on it in 4k. You'll bring it to its knees. Yeah. Well, hold on sir
01:33:18 ◼ ► Monitor that you can plug into it and I don't have a spare. I'm not gonna plug the LG into it
01:33:23 ◼ ► I'm not like I don't have like, you know extra monitors lying around. I don't want to set up a whole desk
01:33:29 ◼ ► Station for a desktop because this is not something that I'm that I'm doing like super seriously all the time
01:33:39 ◼ ► A laptop is actually perfect for this if it can be anywhere near good enough and these laptops so they both so it's their 15-inch
01:33:53 ◼ ► whatever it's whatever the the best 2080 is that razor offers like that's what I have and
01:34:04 ◼ ► But I'm guessing this is getting me at least 50% of what our desktop is getting me like in like high-end GPU
01:34:09 ◼ ► Frame rate stuff on the highest settings and everything and that's great for me for a laptop like it's fantastic. I am
01:34:21 ◼ ► Considering that it's in a laptop and not a particularly large. I pop you know, it's it's a 15 inch. It's you know, it's a little heavy
01:34:35 ◼ ► The fan is not super loud like, you know, it spins up you hear it when you're playing games
01:34:43 ◼ ► So it's it's actually a really good balance and this is why when Tiff kind of floated the idea of whether I wanted mine
01:34:58 ◼ ► Like it really does shock me how good it is. And that's mostly what we need. You know, I use an extra mouse
01:35:07 ◼ ► These names and it's just a basically, you know, two button thing. I I could even use a more basic one
01:35:13 ◼ ► I already killed one by right-clicking too much I guess or too hard. I don't know needs. Yeah, so
01:35:31 ◼ ► I could have gotten higher frame rates or lower temperatures or whatever if I built a whole desktop and I used to build desktops
01:35:40 ◼ ► but right now I'm at a point in my life where I wouldn't really enjoy that and I and I'm very happy to have the
01:35:47 ◼ ► Complete thing of a laptop and not as a deal with a whole bunch of stuff. So anyway all that aside
01:36:19 ◼ ► I really used for more than you know trivial things here or there and so a lot of this stuff is pretty new to me
01:36:30 ◼ ► Setup process, you know, this is running I guess but what is Windows 10 is the latest version whatever it is
01:36:37 ◼ ► Certain things have gotten better certain things haven't certain things are just papered over from the olden days and they're worse. They're just covered up
01:36:45 ◼ ► But it really wasn't that bad. It was totally so, you know, it was interesting. I was basically approaching it
01:36:54 ◼ ► Like a regular non technical person would approach it because I don't know anything about windows anymore
01:37:14 ◼ ► It really gave me some I think useful perspective that I haven't had in a long time of like, you know
01:37:19 ◼ ► What is Windows like what is it like to use it? What is it like to try to get stuff done on Windows?
01:37:42 ◼ ► Not only would most of it not be compatible, but you know, this is a gaming PC. That's that's what it's for
01:38:03 ◼ ► It was actually really nice and surprisingly easy to get those things running and working
01:38:16 ◼ ► The the old PC to you know, I had TIFF's PC and there there were a bunch of like Minecraft data files
01:38:28 ◼ ► Four inches away. I have another laptop almost just like it. How do I move files from this to that?
01:38:36 ◼ ► And I could not figure out like I assume there was some kind of network way to do it. Just use just use SCP
01:38:45 ◼ ► Windows you may not know this but Windows has a Linux subsystem now, you can use SMB or you know
01:38:54 ◼ ► Isn't SMB and Microsoft protocol yes, yes, it's it's yeah, I was just thinking that like you were using Dropbox sync files
01:39:04 ◼ ► It's so strange that you have these two computers that are in the same house on the same network and the way you're transferring files
01:39:09 ◼ ► Is by passing them to a third-party company that stores them and you know data center somewhere
01:39:20 ◼ ► If you knew the right incantations, you could simply network the two together via SMB and transfer files
01:39:26 ◼ ► But because you didn't right yeah Windows is like ffmpeg if you know the right incantation it can do a lot
01:39:31 ◼ ► Wow, I mean, I bet you can do it in my computer somewhere or whatever the hell but I don't know either because my computer
01:39:38 ◼ ► That I use Windows on is the same is my computer. So I never have to transfer the files anywhere
01:40:07 ◼ ► Plug at the SD card into the old computer copy the files onto it like a giant floppy disk
01:40:15 ◼ ► You didn't have a USB thumb drive. No, what year is this? You gotta have thumb drives. Everyone's got thumb drives
01:40:24 ◼ ► I I mean I've had them here and there like that were like given to me by you know freebies from conferences and stuff
01:40:33 ◼ ► Because like when they first were coming around I was very much still like a CD burning person and then in their later days
01:40:38 ◼ ► I would just use the internet to transfer stuff everywhere and then eventually SD cards got so cheap
01:41:14 ◼ ► The games look on the OLED compared to on the fairly mediocre LCD that the other one has
01:41:28 ◼ ► It has the glossy finish instead of because it's it's ducturing has the glossy finish instead of the like matte thing
01:41:33 ◼ ► And so it looks you know, just sharper and brighter. It looks amazing and when you run the games at 4k
01:41:43 ◼ ► It's like it's like upgrading to retina, you know, and and even in my blocky world of Minecraft
01:41:59 ◼ ► When you're running games at 4k, it makes it harder for the GPU to drive them quite a bit harder actually
01:42:48 ◼ ► You know forum posts from eight years ago from from total idiots who don't know what they're talking about
01:42:59 ◼ ► That are the only information about Minecraft that's any good that you have you would watch and it's you know
01:43:08 ◼ ► So if you're having performance problems on my you know, it's just like oh god just get get to the point
01:43:25 ◼ ► Greatest hits so first upgrade your video drivers. Okay. How do I do that? I knew how to do it 15 years ago
01:43:33 ◼ ► I have this Nvidia control panel that I have to log into because downloading video drivers now requires a
01:43:39 ◼ ► Name and an email address and a whole account like I had to tell them video what my birthday was
01:43:44 ◼ ► I'm like you got to be kidding me. Those are the best the video card manufacturers install so much software on Windows
01:43:54 ◼ ► Screens and windows and the control panels and the display settings where you think you can control your video card
01:44:04 ◼ ► screen capture ability and the ability to change features in your video card with scary warnings next them telling you can destroy your screen if
01:44:42 ◼ ► And so I was worried about that but and I noticed one thing that that I assumed the built-in razor
01:44:51 ◼ ► I noticed that no matter what I set it to if you set the start bar to like auto hide and show like auto raise and
01:44:59 ◼ ► Lower when you just like just like doc auto hiding if you set it to not auto hide and to always be there
01:45:13 ◼ ► Permanently just gonna overwrite that setting over and over again to avoid burning in the start bar to the screen
01:45:21 ◼ ► Interesting. So back to my you know, my minecraft thing. So I'm like looking on I upgrade the
01:45:46 ◼ ► To fix a performance problem that seems like a bad idea because then it doesn't hold your frame
01:45:52 ◼ ► It starts drawing as soon as it's ready, even if the bottom half of the screen is still a previous frame
01:46:04 ◼ ► I always turn on v-sync but if you want the absolute maximum PC gamers just want to see the FPS number go up
01:46:09 ◼ ► So if you want the absolute maximum FPS number screen tearing who cares and that's that's solved by later technologies
01:46:15 ◼ ► But if you're watching older videos and you see these PC gamers saying always turn off v-sync because you get one more frame per second
01:46:39 ◼ ► Minecraft we mostly play the bedrock edition that way we can play with the switch in the iPad and the family and the bedrock edition
01:46:54 ◼ ► It doesn't have any built-in like, you know disabled v-sync or any of that but in videos giant bloated control panel utility thing
01:47:06 ◼ ► Force these settings to override whatever the game says and so I was able to force v-sync on in that way and
01:47:23 ◼ ► to 60 because the screen refresh rate anyway and doing those two things 60 frames a second lock and
01:47:32 ◼ ► Fix the problem because the GPU was trying to render a billion frames a second and it was doing it was
01:47:39 ◼ ► Overloading something or other and it was causing input lag basically and that instantly fixed the problem
01:47:43 ◼ ► Well, you're really sacrificing your responsiveness and the PV minecraft PvP by locking to 60. I just want you to know that
01:47:50 ◼ ► Yeah, right because for a 38 year old dad playing minecraft the real limitation is that extra?
01:47:59 ◼ ► You really what you want for is the game to be to be computing faster that slightly faster than your refresh because that will help
01:48:06 ◼ ► Reduce your you know your input lag and the peekers advantage and it's really important to you in Minecraft. I'm sure yeah
01:48:16 ◼ ► I was just playing it yesterday with with Adam and it's just it's I'm having so much fun with it
01:48:25 ◼ ► Within an hour of setting up my gaming PC. I hit a problem that required diving into video drivers and tweaking my
01:48:45 ◼ ► I thought maybe by now we would have gotten past some of it and no we haven't other otherwise
01:48:56 ◼ ► You can only do it like on certain maps that Nvidia made and I assume maybe like baked in the the light
01:49:04 ◼ ► Position the map starts in it just stays there forever like the Sun you don't have the day/night cycle that you usually do
01:49:25 ◼ ► That as a casual observer to this world, but as enough of a geek to know what ray tracing is
01:49:33 ◼ ► I'm sure they're doing all sorts of hacks to reduce the amount of work they have to do but my god, that's incredible
01:49:48 ◼ ► And I remember like setting up a scene and hitting render you'd have to let it go like overnight
01:50:12 ◼ ► Ray tracing and again, I'm sure there's tricks and hacks and work reductions in place here. It is very asterisk asterisk on that
01:50:19 ◼ ► Yes, it's not it's it's it's a little bit of extra ray tracing special sauce thrown on top of a raster engine still
01:50:32 ◼ ► Even though like playing it as Minecraft that way is really weird because you know things like torches don't really work
01:50:49 ◼ ► it's not so fun because it makes a lot of things about the game not work as well because the game wasn't designed for that but
01:51:01 ◼ ► Just like wow, I can't believe hardware is so advanced that it can do this these days. It really was incredible
01:51:10 ◼ ► Also in addition to playing the a ten-year-old game. I tried to play a whole bunch of 20 year old games
01:51:30 ◼ ► It's worth it because we play that much Minecraft as a family and I get that much enjoyment out of it. But anyway
01:51:36 ◼ ► I also thought hey, there's all these old games from you know, my old PC days that I would love to play
01:51:43 ◼ ► it was not as many as I would have guessed and the great thing is, you know, you can go on Steam or GOG and
01:51:49 ◼ ► Download a lot of these old games for like two dollars like the end of the total illegally
01:51:58 ◼ ► Had a lot of issues like I couldn't get total annihilation, which is my favorite game like of all time back then
01:52:06 ◼ ► Work correctly like it works a little but it has some issues that make it pretty hard to play
01:52:12 ◼ ► The best way best way to play old games like that is the same way you play them on a Mac or on Intel Mac
01:52:21 ◼ ► once you get to a certain age and there's no like this there's no steam version or the GOG version is weird like just
01:52:27 ◼ ► Just do the thing like you had get a VM put Windows 95 on it and go to town and that will work and you won't
01:52:36 ◼ ► I think I think I might do that because like it seemed like they were not working for you know
01:52:42 ◼ ► They these games that were like it's funny the ones that so, you know in the concept of like, you know
01:52:49 ◼ ► the game uses what used to be called a full screen mode the the game takes over the screen and
01:52:57 ◼ ► Sets the screen to whatever resolution the game wants to set it to anything that works that way
01:53:15 ◼ ► Just take whatever resolution the PC ran at like those games often seem to not work as well
01:53:47 ◼ ► once it went it went 3d which was terrible and then after 3d it came back to 2d and just had all this like
01:53:54 ◼ ► Mania on screen constantly. It was it was it's not a good scene, but old worms was really fun
01:54:09 ◼ ► 3004 both work great. I was right. I don't really enjoy for that much, but I do enjoy SimCity 3000
01:54:20 ◼ ► I was always a big fan as he was of transport tycoon and of course there it is, of course open ttd works great
01:54:35 ◼ ► This wonderful game that I love a lot that I believe was once named the best game. Nobody played of 2002
01:54:45 ◼ ► This is it's exactly what it's what the award sounds like. It's it's a game that was like pretty under the radar
01:54:53 ◼ ► My friend found it in a discount bin at like a software store back when those were a thing for like five bucks
01:55:00 ◼ ► We played it and it's actually a really good game. It's it's a turn-based kind of top-down artillery
01:55:06 ◼ ► Game and it's I love that game. It's so much fun. I installed that I played a little bit Adam saw me play that
01:55:32 ◼ ► Obviously, you know moon-based commander is a DirectX 8 game and even that was a stretch only to make like the little ripple effect with it
01:55:45 ◼ ► I think Christmas is a great time for video gaming for people who don't play a lot of games the rest of the year
01:55:51 ◼ ► Because like, you know, you can't you don't have a lot else to do everyone's kind of home. They're family together
01:56:02 ◼ ► But we have played minecraft on it and it's it runs it perfectly and it's again the screen is awesome
01:56:15 ◼ ► Whenever I want to like brush a piece of dust off the screen it interprets that as a touch
01:56:29 ◼ ► I'm not using it to get any work done. So I'm not like, you know browsing documents or anything, but I
01:56:33 ◼ ► Guess I don't really actually need touch screens on my laptop turns out. Otherwise, like it's a fantastic piece of hardware. It is exactly
01:56:49 ◼ ► And it's great and I it's it's a great gift and I never would have guessed in a million years that I would
01:56:59 ◼ ► I'm really happy with it. It makes you happy. It makes you happy. What about flights at flight simulator?
01:57:08 ◼ ► But then the new one where you can fly around like the real world maps because that's the that's the new PC gaming crusher
01:57:13 ◼ ► In terms of like no matter how big a gaming PC you have you can turn the settings up high enough to make your computer
01:57:19 ◼ ► Cry. Yeah, and and look I don't care like I know I'm not gonna able to run everything at max. I don't care
01:57:27 ◼ ► I just think it would be cool to fly through these real places in the world with that map data
01:57:39 ◼ ► And I think you'll be impressed by especially the interior but also the exterior of the planes
01:57:42 ◼ ► They do look amazing, but the weather effects they put into this game, which I think are also driven by real-time stuff
01:57:47 ◼ ► But they look amazing. So you'll be able to appreciate that at least even if it's at a slower frame rate
01:57:55 ◼ ► But it's like there's like six different additions and I don't know what addition I need
01:58:06 ◼ ► There it is. You can use your fancy Razer gaming mouse for a game where it might actually have some actual influence
01:58:13 ◼ ► Now so this is this is this is the thing like everyone who's gonna recommend that I check out certain games
01:58:18 ◼ ► I really appreciate that. Here's the thing though. I really have no interest in first-person shooters
01:58:23 ◼ ► I just don't I know but you will as as soon as Adam switches from Minecraft to fortnight
01:58:44 ◼ ► I didn't play lots of first-person shooters and and yes, you know, it didn't make me a violent person ever
01:58:49 ◼ ► But still like I played a lot of them back then and I turned out well, I turned out like this
01:58:56 ◼ ► Turned out like this, but I just now I do not have any desire to play games where I'm shooting people
01:59:07 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't it's not for me if it's for you fine. It's not for me. It's gonna be for Adam
01:59:12 ◼ ► I'm saying if you want to keep playing with them. Yeah, some someday I'm going to lose him into that world
01:59:27 ◼ ► It's like puberty like you know, you don't want like, you know, he he still has his cute kid games
01:59:38 ◼ ► Because we've we've expressed to him our stance like we really don't want him playing games where he's killing other players
01:59:49 ◼ ► We really don't want to play in games where he's killing other players and they're killing him and should think back to your childhood playing
01:59:54 ◼ ► First-person shooters and how you would have reacted if your parents said that to you. Yeah, I mean and and I know that he does
02:00:04 ◼ ► You know, I know he's playing on servers with that and and whenever we ask him like hey you killing players
02:00:11 ◼ ► He'll kind of like soften it because he knows we don't really want him to be doing that
02:00:15 ◼ ► But we also don't feel so strongly about that. We would actually police that and actually enforce that
02:00:21 ◼ ► so we all kind of have like a like a we're gonna pretend like you're not doing that too much and
02:00:31 ◼ ► The result is you know, I don't like it and you don't do it that often and so that's kind of a good result for me
02:00:40 ◼ ► like it's what I would have told my parents if they had to complain about this when I was a kid is that like it's I
02:00:45 ◼ ► Know it manifests itself and in a way that looks like it has some connection to the real world
02:00:53 ◼ ► Because there's no consequences and it is just a competitive way to run around and essentially tag
02:00:59 ◼ ► You're it only the tags are projectiles that may or may not look like bullets. I also find distasteful the
02:01:04 ◼ ► Realistic sort of military simulation where it's actual guns from the real world and that's part of the whole thing or whatever
02:01:11 ◼ ► But in the end all those competitive online games are are much more analogous to sports than they are having to do anything with
02:01:24 ◼ ► Photorealistic guns than real ones any day. So I'm sure you don't have anything to worry about but you know kids
02:01:33 ◼ ► Just like the same reason kids like to play freeze tag and tag your rid and run away from each other and have competitions
02:01:44 ◼ ► If only so he can beat you and you can feel the pride slash shame of your own offspring being better at something
02:01:49 ◼ ► Yeah, that's I know that time is coming but yeah and I also I also do recognize that you know
02:01:58 ◼ ► The that video game violence is kind of a continuum and you know, there's like there's over over on one side
02:02:04 ◼ ► There's like the Call of Duty or like and I I'm not I'm super not into that either for myself or for him
02:02:14 ◼ ► Think it's gonna be a while before before that's permitted. I mean fortnight is pretty cartoony like in that spectrum, you know, they're
02:02:20 ◼ ► Avatars to do funny dances and have costumes and yes, they use semi-realized looking guns
02:02:25 ◼ ► But the entire game looks like a cel-shaded cartoon and is on its face very ridiculous. I
02:02:36 ◼ ► Like he already has some of his some of his classmates in school play it already in third grade
02:02:50 ◼ ► Realistic military shooters with real guns that I'm super not into and then if it's more like, you know
02:02:58 ◼ ► We're seeing competitive Tetris for your you play that remember those the two-player versions
02:03:04 ◼ ► I did I did it like on my graphing calculator and in high school like I would run the little headphone cable
02:03:11 ◼ ► Yeah, if you get a line on your side, it puts junk on the other person's side. It's basically it's competitive two-player Tetris. Mm-hmm
02:03:25 ◼ ► I'm just trying to last as long as possible in the wonderful world of like let's build things, you know
02:03:35 ◼ ► You know, it's it got to take what you can get and meanwhile TIFF is over on the the giant television screen slicing people's necks
02:03:42 ◼ ► Oh, but I supposedly when he's not awake. I suppose no. Oh, yeah, like she couldn't play that the last oh
02:03:59 ◼ ► She needs to come over to the gaming monitor lifestyle where my my console was connected to a monitor
02:04:06 ◼ ► Just like my computer and a much more controlled environment than my television has many advantages
02:04:10 ◼ ► Yeah, maybe I guess maybe we'll have some PC monitors in the house pretty soon. She use the LG 5k after next week
02:04:16 ◼ ► Anyway, thanks to our sponsors this week flat file Linode and Squarespace and thank you to our members who support us directly
02:04:26 ◼ ► You too can become one of these members at ATP FM slash join. Thank you everybody and we will talk to you next week
02:06:01 ◼ ► And I opened this email. I'll never forget this. I opened and I opened this email. There's a picture of a dog
02:06:06 ◼ ► Then that's it. That's the email. It's a picture of a standard poodle and the subject line is new lists
02:06:14 ◼ ► What's going on here? And in so many words, he basically said well, we've replaced you with a dog
02:06:22 ◼ ► Okay, then. I mean at least it's less jarring than like if it was actually like you have a new baby brother. Yeah, that's true
02:06:38 ◼ ► I'm given that this was the fall of 2000 but still well done. I still award you full points
02:06:45 ◼ ► Early, I don't know early ish in quarantine Aaron started needling me about hey, you know, we should get a dog
02:06:59 ◼ ► We should get a dog and I said to her absolutely not and then after months and months and months of this I said well fine
02:07:13 ◼ ► I'm thinking maybe a little bit bigger than hops but like not not necessarily a full-on daisy size
02:07:18 ◼ ► Small ish doesn't shed and I don't want a frickin puppy. I don't want to do the housebreaking thing
02:07:24 ◼ ► I'm over it don't I don't you know, even though Aaron did most of the work for both the kids
02:07:32 ◼ ► Michaela this past March I don't do it again. So let's do not a puppy doesn't shed not too big
02:07:40 ◼ ► We have adopted and we have adopted a rescue who is a puppy. She is what like ten weeks old now
02:07:46 ◼ ► She'll probably be anywhere between 40 and 75 pounds and she is a sharp a lab mix that will almost certainly shed
02:08:03 ◼ ► Which is that you have to engage with the process because if your only position is no dog no dog
02:08:08 ◼ ► No dog the process happens without you and it seems like the process did happen without you the process of selecting a dog finding out
02:08:24 ◼ ► So you should recognize earlier on when your family is going to get a dog whether you like it or not
02:08:28 ◼ ► And work within the system to try to get a dog that fulfills your criteria. Maybe next dog you can do that
02:08:38 ◼ ► Aaron's best friend from college. Her name is Dorothy and Dorothy's husband Daniel. They foster dogs and
02:09:03 ◼ ► Um penny and her sisters back to health or not even back to help but to health to health. Yeah, exactly
02:09:22 ◼ ► I'm telling you this is a good dog, which probably sounds preposterous and I and I can see that it probably sounds preposterous
02:09:29 ◼ ► Well, it's just one of those things like you expect that they would always like it's it's all highway miles
02:09:34 ◼ ► Would always say it's everybody what are they gonna say that this this adorable puppy is bad
02:09:45 ◼ ► It came out and immediately I could see it was a terrible dog. No all puppies are precious and beautiful
02:09:49 ◼ ► Yeah, exactly. So but they I think what's reading through the lines what they were saying was, you know
02:09:54 ◼ ► This is a pretty well-tempered dog who seems to be pretty chill and isn't exceedingly hyper and I'm not saying
02:10:02 ◼ ► Hyper dogs are bad. I am saying hyper dogs are not for the Casey list family. That's just not our speed
02:10:09 ◼ ► I think something more in the vicinity of a hops is closer to our speed and I don't mean that in a disparaging way at
02:10:16 ◼ ► All obviously, I think that you know having having a dog that doesn't need to be walked for you know
02:10:25 ◼ ► Like the general like advice on this point is like to get a dog that matches your energy level and activity level
02:10:35 ◼ ► You know a small apartment and they can't they don't they don't have like a lot of time to go out on big walks and everything
02:10:42 ◼ ► and so like you should probably get a low-energy dog in that context and probably a smaller one or
02:10:47 ◼ ► And you know, some people have like a lot of land and they're on a farm and they need like a working dog
02:10:53 ◼ ► Like that's not a good match and and so, you know get a dog that matches your energy level whether it is
02:10:59 ◼ ► You know a border collie to run around a farm all day or a hops to sit on a rug and be a rug himself
02:11:16 ◼ ► They they have they had four and ended up adopting they what do they call they foster failed?
02:11:32 ◼ ► Analog that'll be coming out the Sunday Mike and I talked about this and if you'll permit me another quick sidetrack
02:11:44 ◼ ► When she came in the following morning and Declan was like six months old and six months cheese six hours old
02:11:50 ◼ ► So she comes in she picks him up and she's holding him for a minute. She's wow. This is a chill, baby
02:11:55 ◼ ► I looked at her. I'm like you freaking crazy lady. What do you mean? There? I did it again. Hi Marco. I
02:12:01 ◼ ► Looked at her. I was like are you bananas lady? Like what do you mean? This is a chill baby?
02:12:06 ◼ ► He's six hours old. What is that? What but as it turns out, I mean not every not every kid is exactly the same
02:12:25 ◼ ► Person or animals disposition based on how they are as infants. That's probably wrong, but that's what I'm telling myself. It's not and so
02:12:33 ◼ ► So, you know Dorothy and Daniel say no, this is a really chill dog. And I think it's it's a good fit for you guys
02:12:44 ◼ ► and so next thing I know I'm driving to Bethesda Bethesda making a day trip up and back to pick up this dog and
02:12:59 ◼ ► She was on some antibiotics for some things and we thought that was already licked by the time
02:13:06 ◼ ► So she's still on some meds and and that's made for increased amount of accidents inside
02:13:16 ◼ ► But I really mean housebreaking and she's gotten to the point that normally but not always she'll sit by the particular door
02:13:24 ◼ ► And so she seems to be self-aware enough to say I need to pee and I'm gonna sit at the door that you will take
02:13:34 ◼ ► You know one of the one of the things with her sick is she has a urinary tract infection
02:13:38 ◼ ► And so that obviously makes her have difficulty with it and need to go more often and so on and so forth. So
02:13:46 ◼ ► Turns out puppies like to nip and bite a lot, which is fine for an adult but harder to explain to a
02:14:02 ◼ ► Especially today as I'm listening to our country falling apart having this nice little bundle of fluff on my lap did make things a little
02:14:12 ◼ ► We've got that going for us and the kids all in all are completely in love Aaron and I are completely in love
02:14:22 ◼ ► Establish her own roles for us. So what I mean by that is when she's interested in like playtime. She'll come over to me
02:14:34 ◼ ► Oftentimes like if she's on my lap out of desperation because Aaron isn't around, you know
02:14:39 ◼ ► She's in a different room or whatever and then Aaron shows up. She is running right over to mama
02:14:55 ◼ ► To start having a nap time because puppies love to sleep a lot because they're like little babies, right?
02:15:00 ◼ ► Right, and I remember when I first got Daisy and she was a puppy and I was on sabbatical from work
02:15:04 ◼ ► We would have nap time every day where I would lay down and put Daisy on my chest and we would just sleep for a certain
02:15:12 ◼ ► You get to have a nap and the dog gets to have a nap and you get to have a nap with the dog
02:15:22 ◼ ► You're not gonna want a 75 pound dog in your chest, but enjoy all you can. Yeah. Yeah, that's very true
02:15:40 ◼ ► I don't think we're going to stick with no kid. No dog on the couch. Here's what I recommend for the bed stuff
02:15:48 ◼ ► It was dogs in the bed and that taught me that this is a line potentially worth holding
02:15:56 ◼ ► We last like three years with Daisy, but here's where I draw the line dog can be on the bed
02:16:00 ◼ ► But because I held the line with Daisy from the time that she was a puppy until she was about three
02:16:14 ◼ ► But if you have a dog bed eventually you get a place where the dog goes make that the dog's bed
02:16:33 ◼ ► Exactly, and that's why I think I really think we'll come back to this and somewhere between a couple months and a couple years
02:16:41 ◼ ► I really think we're gonna hold strong on the no bed thing. You won't it'll be fine. I am
02:16:45 ◼ ► Extremely extremely not confident that we were going to hold strong on the no couch thing
02:16:54 ◼ ► I mean you can how you can have a dog couch and a people couch is one way to deal with that and then the people
02:17:01 ◼ ► It's kind of like having nice furniture and having kids. It's like, okay. Well, you know, there is a it's like the severe weather
02:17:12 ◼ ► Yeah, kids are kids and or pets change the lifetime of your furniture. Let's say even if you don't let them on
02:17:20 ◼ ► So just accept that and you know be okay with the idea that when next time you buy a sofa you're like well
02:17:27 ◼ ► Should we get the super expensive sofa knowing that there's gonna be a dog on it or you know?
02:17:33 ◼ ► I think the benefits of snuggling with a dog especially in the winter time on a sofa outweigh the
02:17:41 ◼ ► I mean the whole point of having a dog is to like sit there and pet the dog all day like that's fun
02:17:48 ◼ ► You can go on walks with and they can keep you company and they're basically like little love batteries
02:17:53 ◼ ► You fill them with love they give it back. It's wonderful. So are they love capacitors then? Oh, maybe well
02:18:05 ◼ ► in fact, our couches are falling apart because we've had them for like 10 plus years and now two children and and
02:18:10 ◼ ► They're just old in and I think we'll replace them sometime in the next couple of years
02:18:21 ◼ ► And I learned this with Declan like what what mom and dad think is a one-time thing like sure Declan
02:18:29 ◼ ► It's never just a one-time thing with the kids and I'm assuming the dog will be the same way
02:18:47 ◼ ► Result in food or you know, like a food reward from any place that you don't want to forever be doing that
02:19:06 ◼ ► Not only are we never going to feed him from the table, but no one else is ever gonna feed him from a table either
02:19:14 ◼ ► That's no one ever like it's never gonna be a thing and as a result hops doesn't beg at the table and it's wonderful
02:19:20 ◼ ► Meanwhile, like, you know if things like a few things that have resulted in getting food like, you know, if I stand near the fridge
02:19:32 ◼ ► He just like pokes his nose onto my leg as if he's like tapping me like tap tap tap. It's so cute
02:19:42 ◼ ► Therefore like it's just a thing like that's that's something that happens. Like we have some other family members
02:19:51 ◼ ► They basically come over and beg at the table then the person to avoid giving the dog food from the table
02:20:04 ◼ ► All that matters is cause and effect and the whole time they're saying like nether season from the table and they're trying to explain the dog
02:20:10 ◼ ► With words like now don't expect this every time. Yep. The reality is dogs don't care about your words
02:20:17 ◼ ► they don't understand most of them and any cause and effect they'll remember and so if them begging at the table
02:20:23 ◼ ► Resulted in them getting food, even if it's through a bunch of indirect steps, that doesn't matter
02:20:41 ◼ ► they will remember and they will and it will be reinforced in their mind the more you do it and then like those habits are
02:20:47 ◼ ► Incredibly easy to accidentally develop and incredibly hard to ever break once they're developed the coral the coral
02:20:55 ◼ ► I do this though is even if there's something you never do like, oh, we never let the dog on the couch
02:20:59 ◼ ► Well, do you ever leave the house because unlike bed being on the couch is something the dog can do by itself
02:21:06 ◼ ► So if your security cameras do this one of the things you can see it's like we never let the dog on the couch
02:21:10 ◼ ► All right, so leave the house for a few hours and look in security camera find out where the dog is
02:21:15 ◼ ► No, I mean the dog you're gonna lose the couch thing instantly is just accept it now like because you know also
02:21:30 ◼ ► Yeah, and so if you start sending confusing messages like well you can be with me except when I'm sitting on this thing
02:21:38 ◼ ► But you aren't allowed for arbitrary reasons like they they don't you can't explain to them
02:21:44 ◼ ► So it's easier to just be to have things be much more consistent and simple for them in the rules
02:21:49 ◼ ► And by the way, man, I wonder if we're gonna get horrible feedback about all this like dog advice
02:22:05 ◼ ► and so you know because he always starts out in the bed, and he has a dog bed that he loves and
02:22:10 ◼ ► Most nights he starts out in the bed and then within the first half hour of us being there
02:22:16 ◼ ► He will usually jump down into the dog bed because I will start like petting him with my feet
02:22:21 ◼ ► Putting my leg up against his back so and so it makes them all hot and eventually gets up and leaves
02:22:26 ◼ ► Yeah, it depends on the dog like you what you really don't want the reason you don't want the dog in the bed is not
02:22:33 ◼ ► It's uncomfortable for everybody because dogs are not polite they just they will lay sideways between
02:22:38 ◼ ► The two people and be in the most awkward position and just be annoying and you would think some dogs like you know
02:22:44 ◼ ► Like cops apparently. Oh if you poke them with your feet or whatever. They're like full forget this
02:22:55 ◼ ► Is to make them want to be in their bed as their most secure place to sleep because it's more comfortable for them, too
02:23:04 ◼ ► But we didn't let her on the bed at all for years and then when we finally did let her up
02:23:08 ◼ ► It's just exciting snuggle time before bed, but when it's like okay lights out everyone goes to bed
02:23:13 ◼ ► She goes right to her dog, but she doesn't want to be on there. She's like well if it's bedtime
02:23:17 ◼ ► But even if she's been snoozing with us on the bed while we've just been looking at her iPads or watching a TV show for like
02:23:24 ◼ ► She goes to her bed, and that's the best of all possible worlds because we get to snuggle with the dog
02:23:29 ◼ ► Especially in the winter months when it's cold we get all the dogs not we want and then we need to go to bed
02:23:39 ◼ ► Tina the dog and your 35 layers of pajamas during the winter time and and my and my big down comforter
02:23:47 ◼ ► And and one or more of my children who may be flopping on the bed at that time usually to try to pet the dog
02:24:07 ◼ ► she's on what smells and appears to be it isn't amoxicillin, but smells and appears to be what I would used to call bubblegum medicine and
02:24:14 ◼ ► Turns out maybe you two knew this, but I didn't know this it turns out when that prescription was called in
02:24:24 ◼ ► Maybe it's this is obvious to any dog owner, but I've never owned a dog before we had dogs when we were kids
02:24:29 ◼ ► But they weren't my dogs. They were the family dogs, which means they were mom and dad's dogs
02:24:42 ◼ ► What do you mean like for for people and she said yeah? Yeah what and turns out that's the thing who knew?
02:24:48 ◼ ► Yeah, it was like a lot of dog medicines are the same as you medicines just like different doses or different from you know
02:24:53 ◼ ► Different packaging around them or the different forms they take but you know like things like antibiotics and steroids and stuff like that
02:24:59 ◼ ► Like, you know commonly things for dogs. It's it's usually like it's very a lot of times. It's very similar to what humans get
02:25:06 ◼ ► Although I've never had that in particular like a human because like my vet is also a pharmacy
02:25:14 ◼ ► And apparently the particular vet we ended up choosing that I guess that doesn't happen like they had given us
02:25:19 ◼ ► And they didn't know what the particular issue was at first and they had given us a moxazone at first
02:25:23 ◼ ► And that they just grabbed from like their fridge and so I assume they have like the basic array of things there
02:25:29 ◼ ► But whatever this it isn't a moxazone, but it's something vaguely similar that that got prescribed
02:25:33 ◼ ► I don't remember what it was and that I had to go to a Walgreens for which which is funny
02:25:37 ◼ ► It was especially funny when the the gentleman on the other side of the drive-through window says this is for penny Casey lists
02:25:44 ◼ ► Put in penny - Casey lists. I mean while I'm at this topic, by the way, you do not have to although
02:25:51 ◼ ► I'm sure you already have you do not have to email me and point out that her name is penniless
02:25:54 ◼ ► She's a dog. We didn't name Michaela penniless, even though, you know, my surname accepted
02:26:06 ◼ ► So it was not a deliberate pun, even though I do love a pun, especially with my last name
02:26:37 ◼ ► Yeah, so this is this is a family issue here. She has to have more followers than just hops
02:26:45 ◼ ► Well, so one of us in the family is of the opinion that that your Instagram is your entire person
02:26:53 ◼ ► And if you get a dog and want to post non-stop dog pictures, well, that's part of your person put it on your main Instagram
02:27:11 ◼ ► And I think part of the problem is those of us who think you don't need a separate Instagram are willing to
02:27:25 ◼ ► Don't have that self-control and all they want to do is just post dog photos all the time
02:27:35 ◼ ► Accepting that we are disagreeing about it in the in the Instagram account has not folded
02:27:51 ◼ ► And I'll put a link to Penny's Instagram as well. If you are so inclined to look at dog pictures
02:28:07 ◼ ► Right now like Instagram your personal Instagram account ostensibly is about things going on in your life right now
02:28:15 ◼ ► And so you're gonna have a lot of dog pictures because you just got one and she's your dog
02:28:21 ◼ ► The dog pictures will become less of it like they'll be less dominating of your main feed
02:28:30 ◼ ► That's when you can start posting like, you know, if you still want to post every day or two on her account
02:28:37 ◼ ► You still can but then maybe maybe you post things to her account that you wouldn't necessarily post to your own because they aren't as interesting
02:28:43 ◼ ► For your main account, you know, but it makes total sense to have those two separate things
02:28:50 ◼ ► It's adorable like hops follows a bunch of other dogs and then like me and Tiff and Adam
02:28:58 ◼ ► But I think it's funny to think of like hops following a bunch of dogs and Tiff runs that whole account anyway
02:29:02 ◼ ► So like whatever happens to it. It's it's like always a cute surprise for me to see it. I didn't do it
02:29:15 ◼ ► Things it's coming. It's only a matter of time. But but yeah, no so far. It's been really good
02:29:25 ◼ ► So far in a lot of ways not that dissimilar from parenting children like human children
02:29:31 ◼ ► But yet it is very very different in ways. I know it's hard for me to put my finger on what's what's different about it
02:29:38 ◼ ► I mean other than you can't really talk to it because I mean you can't really talk to an infant baby either
02:29:52 ◼ ► Generally speaking pretty agreeable. For example, we've decided to put her in a crate only in the evenings
02:30:02 ◼ ► But she took to it immediately like when we put her in we had put her in there on and off during the first day
02:30:11 ◼ ► shoot, I don't know like two or three o'clock in the afternoon and you know, we tried to get her to go to bed at
02:30:18 ◼ ► She had only seen the crate for a few hours at that point and I think she cried for like a minute
02:30:28 ◼ ► Generally speaking that's been the case like she's been super fine with the crate which is very very good
02:30:32 ◼ ► overnight I've I've been waking her up more than she's been waking me up in terms of like
02:30:48 ◼ ► Issues with this child because she did it for the other two and I think that's a pretty fair trade. Yep. That's reasonable
02:30:54 ◼ ► So I've been the one taking her out now Aaron because she's the best and and refuses to listen to me
02:31:04 ◼ ► making sure that that penny hasn't peed the bed when we weren't aware of it or anything like that and oftentimes coming down to like
02:31:12 ◼ ► but but all told it's been like I've set alarms on my watch to quietly wake myself up and then take penny out and
02:31:23 ◼ ► We'll do it like twice overnight and if we stay up late enough like to the extreme end of our early to bed
02:31:33 ◼ ► We can we can stretch her to like just one overnight pee and so far knock on wood as I jinx everything for tonight
02:31:47 ◼ ► We've been doing like three and three quarter hours and could probably bump her up to four and it would probably be okay
02:31:52 ◼ ► Especially since she has woken us up a couple times in the past and cried and and basically said I need to go
02:31:58 ◼ ► Which again like if this is how potty training a dog is I'm the best potty to a potty training
02:32:03 ◼ ► And if this is what housebreaking a dog is I'm the best housework in the world because basically Penny's been doing everything for me
02:32:08 ◼ ► So far so good remind me of this in like three weeks when I tell you I don't know what to do
02:32:13 ◼ ► She's she's a she's a monster and I can't get her to do anything. I want her to do. It'll be fine
02:32:18 ◼ ► It'll work out dogs are great. Enjoy and congratulations. Well, thank you. Yeah, we're really pleased and the kids by and large
02:32:28 ◼ ► Both our kids have been a little reluctant or perhaps cautious with dogs in in Aaron's side of the family
02:32:39 ◼ ► Excused for behaviors that he shouldn't have been because even at age two apparently he was still a puppy
02:32:46 ◼ ► And that eventually has come around which is good and the German Shepherd is pretty well behaved now
02:32:53 ◼ ► 90 100 pounds or something like that with the bark of like a 300 pound dog and he's scary like he's nice, but he's scary
02:33:00 ◼ ► And that's one of the dogs that they were exposed to regularly and then there's another dog in the family. That's a mutt
02:33:07 ◼ ► Who is who has had like a really crummy first year of life before you know with our family the our extended family got him
02:33:21 ◼ ► He's well behaved but he's nervous and skittish and you know both the kids this is like their dog experience
02:33:38 ◼ ► Less egregious for the both of them. Oh, yeah, because like people's comfort level with dogs is
02:33:46 ◼ ► Their own experience level with dogs, right? You know, like when when you don't have a dog in your family yourself
02:33:52 ◼ ► Then your only experience is everyone else's dogs and everyone else sucks at raising dogs and doesn't train them, right?
02:34:11 ◼ ► They're gonna be a little afraid of dogs like that makes total sense, right? But because you now have a dog in your house
02:34:22 ◼ ► Generally be more comfortable dealing with dogs as a general result as well. So we're really happy. I'm scared. I'm nervous
02:34:30 ◼ ► I'm worried that I'm teaching bad things even though I'm trying my darndest not to I'm worried that you know
02:34:52 ◼ ► feel like and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you can work through with a person a bad habit and
02:35:03 ◼ ► You can have this french fry just once you get I feel like I get more than one chance to
02:35:08 ◼ ► Screw you you can you can screw up a person and undo it and I'm sure you can do that with a dog
02:35:17 ◼ ► Something is gonna fall off the table and she's gonna get it and it's gonna be like that's it forever
02:35:22 ◼ ► And I might like intellectually I know that's probably not the case, but it freaks me out that that
02:35:27 ◼ ► We're gonna make one misstep and then it's gonna be committed in Penny's little brain and that's gonna be it forever more and and I
02:35:33 ◼ ► Really? Hope that's not the case and it's probably not but that's what like scares the piss out of me
02:35:42 ◼ ► Teach the right things to not only her but to me and to the rest of us and just try to do right by her
02:35:48 ◼ ► I think you should be worried more about messing up your kids because dogs in general run simpler software
02:35:59 ◼ ► Which may be your fault some of which may be not be but there's so much more complicated that can go so much worse with people
02:36:07 ◼ ► it's much more straightforward not that I'm saying you shouldn't be worried about it try to do all the right things but in general a