411: Are My Instructions Not Clear?


00:00:00   oh noes what's happening oh again fix it what is happening plug and unplug not the iMac pro mic

00:00:08   oh what do you mean are you not plugged in i don't know what did you do last time

00:00:11   did you unplug it and then plug it back in uh this is not good hold on what what do you

00:00:17   think goes on over there and what did you get for adding a follow-up at one minute before

00:00:23   recording time casey hold on all right it's not on the back side okay all right this is extremely

00:00:31   not

00:00:31   i just unplugged this ethernet cable

00:00:38   just keep feeling around back there yeah something that feels like audio

00:00:44   hello that's better hey all right hold on let me i don't know what the hell happened that was

00:00:52   weird i had to unplug it and plug it back in and i just rebooted my mac that's what i just told you

00:00:56   to do all right stop adding follow-up whenever that is closed no it's happening it's happening

00:01:02   here hold on let me hit record okay should be recording now oh a lot going on well yeah i mean

00:01:07   you know the holidays it's always always a busy time indeed and we uh have a lot to get through

00:01:12   so we should probably start but i feel like we haven't had any witty banter yet so far do we

00:01:18   have any witty banter i can't have any witty banter until you include a cyst diagnosis

00:01:21   so my mms bug that i am so in love with uh it had struck me during the very last episode like

00:01:33   literally as we were recording the very last episode of the show and i talked to a couple

00:01:39   people on the inside about it and basically was told both gently and not so gently look if you

00:01:45   don't get us a cyst diagnosed there's nothing we can do so what's a cyst diagnosed so my extremely

00:01:50   limited understanding is that basically there's a log file or like buffer or ring buffer or something

00:01:56   that exists on ios devices and if you hold all three buttons on a modern iphone so the volume up

00:02:04   following volume down and lock buttons if you hold them for about a second then it will trigger a cyst

00:02:10   diagnose and what that basically does is it takes all of the logs that are in memory or on disk or

00:02:17   what have you i would presume in memory but i don't know for sure and it will dump those to the iphone's

00:02:22   file system and you can get to them in settings and my phone is locked up that's cool uh settings i

00:02:27   think it's privacy uh app data something seriously settings is just freaking locked what the heck um

00:02:33   we can get to it somewhere in settings and you can air drop that to your computer and then you can

00:02:39   attach that to a feedback once you know for the thing formerly known the artist formerly known as

00:02:44   radar settings privacy analytics and improvements analytics data and then you can search for sys

00:02:52   and these things are usually multiple hundreds of megabytes and i can understand the conundrum right

00:02:57   you know apple needs to be able to find something to dig through other than just looking through

00:03:02   code to figure out what's going on and they're not exactly going to have me drive my iphone over to

00:03:07   craig's house so what you're going to do but i uh i had one bug i'll put the bug links or i'll put

00:03:13   the bug numbers in the show notes i had one bug that apple closed and then reopened probably

00:03:17   because of all my kvetching and whining and then i made another bug both of these have

00:03:21   sys diagnosis so apple people i love you wouldn't you mind just going ahead and taking a look at

00:03:27   this for me please now i'm going to do the cardinal sin of being a person on the internet i'm going to

00:03:32   bring up something that i got in trouble for in a different place because apparently i really like

00:03:36   punishment and i at the same time this was all going on this was literally christmas eve christmas

00:03:42   day that i was you know finally grabbing sys diagnosis um right when it when it was happening

00:03:47   i also noticed that my beloved synology drive client which is you know the synology version

00:03:53   of dropbox uh they their icon on big sur if you if you use their quote-unquote minimalist icon which

00:04:02   is to say their monochrome icon their icon on big sur in dark mode is super duper bright white

00:04:06   which is like the world's most ridiculously silly aesthetic bug that affects nothing functionally

00:04:13   but it's really annoying on my laptop and so i filed a bug i think it was like the 23rd or

00:04:18   something like that saying hey you know can we fix this icon in this certain setting on this certain

00:04:23   os on this certain machine that'd be great and i was expecting them to be like whatever dude leave

00:04:28   us alone i was getting replies from them christmas eve christmas day the day after constant replies

00:04:36   about something that is the dumbest bug in the world it does not matter and i'm getting all

00:04:43   these replies from synology like like it's their job to keep their customers happy imagine that

00:04:48   they value customer set and uh and so it was it was startling to me because a i didn't actually

00:04:55   expect a response from synology at all be certainly not on a time that most companies not all but most

00:05:02   companies are probably you know on a skeleton staff or perhaps off entirely as apple is

00:05:07   and sure enough i'm getting replies non-stop and it's just so striking how quietly hostile bug

00:05:16   reporting is within apple and how actively great it can be in a company who really cares and

00:05:22   so with that with that bad mouthing aside hey fix my bug please that'd be great you've uh you've

00:05:28   invoked my uh time delayed rage by putting the word sysdiagnose and follow up and i must now uh

00:05:35   add my oh good most recent complaint about it so there's a bug that i've been tracking uh it's a

00:05:40   bug that i saw on one of my apps um but it's not a bug in my app as far as i can tell uh i saw it

00:05:46   in the big sur beta i made a sample project that just puts a window on a screen and just demonstrates

00:05:51   the bug right i even put a cute little bug icon on it right so here's a sample project with with

00:05:56   very little code like you know 20 lines of code reproducing this bug and i sent it uh to apple

00:06:03   during the big sur beta of course they sent it back after like a week saying we need a sysdiagnose

00:06:08   sure whatever they did also ask him by the way uh you know upload the sysdiagnose and also tell us

00:06:13   what time you captured it yeah i'm like seriously i mean like surely the time is in the sysdiagnose

00:06:22   right isn't it a giant log yep right and and not only that but i think the file name might have a

00:06:27   date in it and then of course the metadata for the file itself has the date in it but whatever fine

00:06:31   here you go apple here's this diagnose i i ran my sample project which is attached to the bug report

00:06:36   and sure enough when you follow the instructions and run my sample build and run my sample project

00:06:42   it triggers the bug and then i capture a sysdiagnose and then i noted the time and here it is and then

00:06:48   it sat there for like a week or two and you know new betas came out and it didn't get fixed then

00:06:53   then they send another thing on that bug that says can you please capture a six diagnosed

00:06:56   and tell us the time that it came out and this is like a month in gosh i'm like oh my god listen and

00:07:03   i did i did the cardinal sin which is like i tried to communicate to whatever this is that's replying

00:07:08   to me as if it's a human because i don't know that it's a human right and i said listen here's another

00:07:14   i did it again i did i say here's another sysdiagnose here's the time i captured it

00:07:17   and then i said like why are you asking me the time that it was captured can you not reproduce

00:07:22   it does the sample project i included not work for you like that's valuable data we say hey guess

00:07:27   what uh we can't reproduce this right and i said i'm running it on the dtk because at this point

00:07:32   i had sworn off big sur on my main computer i was able to reproduce it on both but by this point

00:07:36   i was no more big sur on my mac pro so is it like what's the problem are you can you not reproduce

00:07:41   it like are you having trouble reproducing it are my instructions not clear should i capture like a

00:07:46   screen screen capture video of me showing what it looks like in fact i took photos of my screen in

00:07:51   the original report and i said because when i try to take a screenshot it triggers like a refresh

00:07:56   effect which fixes it's a cosmetic bug it fixes the cosmetic bug if you take a screenshot of it

00:08:00   for whatever reason and i included that info in the original bug report and i took photos of my

00:08:04   screen and i said here's why i'm sending you photos of my screen not screenshots like i was

00:08:07   so helpful and it's like a month in i'm like what's going on no reply and anyway because

00:08:12   i came out of my bug is not fixed still no reply in this bug that's all yep it's so frustrating

00:08:18   it's so incredibly infuriating and then and then to have me at the same time get responses from

00:08:24   sonology on christmas day like i'm not advocating that apple should be working on christmas day

00:08:30   that's not my point my point is of all the days in the entire calendar that you would have expect

00:08:36   nothing it was christmas day and here it is i'm having like almost an active conversation on their

00:08:41   bug tracker on christmas day it's preposterous yeah and just to just to give a like the reason

00:08:48   that the most likely reason that you're having that experience is it's not an excuse but it is

00:08:53   an explanation uh it's one of scale sonology has far far far far far fewer customers than apple

00:08:58   apple has a tremendous volume of feedbacks coming in um apple also has a tremendous amount of money

00:09:04   you know so on and so forth but like when you're a smaller company you can afford one of your

00:09:09   advantages is that you can afford to have better customer service it's part of what lets you grow

00:09:13   into a bigger company so i'm not excusing the fact that apple is slower on responses in some ways it's

00:09:19   explicable even though it seems like it shouldn't be because they have all the money in the world

00:09:22   but as we talked about in the past it's not actually as easy as you think it is to convert

00:09:25   money into human resources and productivity if it was if it was that easy like you know business

00:09:32   would be a lot easier and there'd be a lot more of them they'd be a lot more successful anyway

00:09:36   uh we all attached our sys diagnosis apple so please communicate about our bugs sometimes i

00:09:41   mean i'm saying within six months or a year you know i'm not in a hurry it's cosmetic bug that's

00:09:47   all the same story plays out over and over again you know we we hear from apple people or we talk

00:09:52   to apple people like you know wbc or whatever and and they always tell us the same story your your

00:09:57   bug reports really matter please file bug reports it really helps it really does get things you know

00:10:02   fixed or helps us vote on things or whatever but the experience of being an external developer

00:10:08   reporting bugs to apple has always been and continues to be horrendous in fact it seems

00:10:13   like it's getting worse as the company is getting bigger and scaling like the it is so often apparent

00:10:19   that whatever screening process the bugs are you know are going through like at the at the first

00:10:25   levels it doesn't seem to work much if at all uh at actually like communicating to developers

00:10:33   we've seen this we've taken this seriously we paid attention to it and your time creating this bug

00:10:39   report writing it all up creating sample code etc that time was well spent like no that the process

00:10:44   does not communicate that at all it communicates the opposite it clearly communicates over and

00:10:48   over again to the vast majority of developers that i know myself included with all my experiences

00:10:52   you are wasting your time by doing this and you're better off if you just wait around for other

00:10:58   people to do it and that that way you don't have to waste your time doing it because like that's

00:11:02   that is that is what their actions actually show and i know their words say differently and i bet

00:11:06   they truly believe that we should be doing this and i bet they truly intend for this to be good

00:11:12   just like i always intend to do all my homework i always intend i have the best intentions and answer

00:11:17   email yeah i have the best intentions to you know to be productive and to to you know do do all my

00:11:23   homework answer all my email floss every day lose weight and you know what about two-thirds of those

00:11:28   things happen and usually the homework and the email aren't very high on the list the experience

00:11:34   of filing bugs with apple just has shown me over and over and over again for years and years and

00:11:41   years this is not worth my time to do and not only that but it almost seems actively hostile

00:11:48   like yeah very few of the of the reports that i or the bugs i report ever get any response at all

00:11:55   they just sit there open forever with no comments ever put on them like they just sit there open

00:11:59   like well why did i even file that at all some of them eventually get assigned as a duplicate but

00:12:03   that's actually very rare almost everything that i file just sits there forever if i'm lucky i'll

00:12:09   get a response and the response the vast majority of the time is you didn't report a system or you

00:12:14   didn't have a cyst diagnosed therefore we're closing this bug or please check it to see if

00:12:19   this is fixed in the latest version yep yeah another thing they don't do themselves yeah

00:12:23   they're checking whether it's closed you know like this is something you have to do i mean like in

00:12:28   most ticketing systems you want the person who opens the ticket to agree that it's closed but

00:12:32   in the apple system you have to actually check whether it's closed they don't tell you we think

00:12:36   this is fixed i mean they do eventually if they actually fix it they say we think this is fixed

00:12:40   please confirm but what they also do is we have no idea of this fix but could you just test it

00:12:45   on the latest beta to tell me if it's fixed and i did that for every single big survey that they

00:12:49   came out every single one i tried it and stuff yep still can reproduce it but they weren't even

00:12:53   communicating to me at that point like if i had to uh recommend a way to make the system better

00:12:59   that's easier to apply money to is you just need someone who's an actual human being communicating

00:13:06   more so for example um with with a bug like mine where i you know i found it in my program but then

00:13:10   i made a sample project or whatever it is entirely possible that it's still my bug because my sample

00:13:15   program is still code that i wrote and so if i'm doing something fundamentally stupid because i'm

00:13:19   an inexperienced mac developer the possibility is that i'm wasting apple's time where they're

00:13:23   going to go reproduce it and say oh yeah i reproduced it but it's not actually our bug

00:13:27   it's your bug because here's here's a problem in your program right um and that's me wasting their

00:13:33   time and that's the problem of being apples like you have tons of developers and they send you

00:13:37   reports and you have to i got to deal with this this isn't a bug this isn't a bug either this is

00:13:41   just someone complaining or whatever right so it's going to be low priority and it takes work to do

00:13:45   that and it's costly or whatever but the problem with silence is i don't know if that's actually

00:13:50   happened already for all i know they reproduced the bug with my sample program looked at my sample

00:13:55   program for two seconds and said oh this dummy has a bug in their program and they're just never

00:13:59   going to tell that to me ever right you need to communicate over communicate apple say okay we've

00:14:05   accepted your thing okay we're looking at okay this human looked at it at this time okay we have

00:14:09   we have reproduced it we haven't we could build your sample program we couldn't where you know

00:14:14   what number are you in the queue like at the deli counter like literally anything any kind of

00:14:18   communication that is convincingly human that communicates the status of your bug in the system

00:14:26   and in the absence of that our minds just spin off and say i'm being ignored i feel like it's a you

00:14:30   know passive aggressive or whatever or they don't care which may not be true but we're just not

00:14:35   privy to what is actually going on behind the scenes it's extremely frustrating and and i feel

00:14:41   completely handcuffed because this is a bug just to quickly reiterate where i'm myself or aaron

00:14:48   are just straight up not receiving text messages my internet communicator is not consistently

00:14:53   communicating with the internet which is very frustrating and i feel like this is a pretty

00:14:57   critical bug i'm not saying that people have to be working on christmas or whatever i'm just saying

00:15:01   it's a pretty critical bug and as far as i'm concerned i'm just throwing things over the wall

00:15:06   for them to laugh and incinerate them and it's very very frustrating i mean on your bug casey

00:15:10   i'm pretty sure they know about like they already did that one thing we think we're helping you know

00:15:14   that they it was in the release notes for an ios release now the fact that didn't fix all the

00:15:17   problems is bad but i don't think they're unaware that this is a problem like your report is surely

00:15:24   one of thousands that complained about this and that's the other problem where it's like okay

00:15:28   we've got a team working on this would you rather that team spend its time writing the same thing in

00:15:32   a thousand bugs or would you rather than just fix it we all just want it to be fixed right

00:15:36   but it feels like when you're the one who submitted the bug and they come back and say we need a cyst

00:15:40   diagnosis like like if for example a human communication could be hey we've got a lot of

00:15:45   reports of this problem and the team is working on it and then oh and by the way if you can give

00:15:49   us a stagnant it might help but honestly we have 5 000 bug reports of this exact bug and they're

00:15:54   probably never going to look at your cyst diagnosed maybe don't put the last part but just say like

00:15:58   hey we know this is a serious bug and the team is working on it which i think is almost certainly

00:16:02   the case you know in the case of this bug but you don't know that because they didn't they didn't

00:16:07   write it in the bug report yep well and it says on the top of feedback assistant for this particular

00:16:12   bug recent similar reports none and here again i mean even even just even just categorizing and

00:16:19   grouping them yeah just just doing that task of identifying the 5 000 reports this of this one

00:16:24   bug and grouping them is a big task to do and obviously apple is not staffed to do that and

00:16:30   you know anyways and it's also not like the people who are fixing the bug are the same people who are

00:16:35   trashing all the things that separate people yada yada it's just all saying is on the outside it

00:16:39   feels very frustrating and in the end especially with like a serious bug like casey's we all just

00:16:44   want it fixed and so it's like you know if you could you can just shut us up entirely by just

00:16:48   fixing the bug and then we'll go away exactly all right so now that i've besmirched apple and

00:16:54   guaranteed that this bug will never get fixed let me tell you something nice about apple um mostly

00:16:59   uh i have done a little bit more with fitness plus still really like it a couple of quick thoughts

00:17:04   that i had since our discussion last episode um one of the things that i both like and don't like

00:17:10   about it is that there doesn't seem to be any real like continuity between workouts um one of the

00:17:17   things again i'm comparing to beachbody because that's what i'm familiar with with beachbody you

00:17:21   have like a program so i had done this boxing program called 10 rounds and and basically the

00:17:26   idea is they take you from never having boxed before in your life hello and teach you the very

00:17:31   basics of how to box like you know different punches and different moves you can do and stuff

00:17:36   like that and that was i think a six-week program with the five workouts per week if i'm not mistaken

00:17:42   and you know you go over the course of the program from not knowing anything to knowing a little bit

00:17:48   and there's it's nice to have that kind of continuity and one thing i've noticed about

00:17:52   fitness plus is as yet there's none of that real continuity now on the flip side that's actually

00:17:58   kind of nice in a way because it's very easy to just drop into any trainers any workout and just

00:18:03   do it and that's that and again i like that there are workouts of varying lengths so there's 10

00:18:09   minute workouts 20 minute workouts 30 minute workouts etc and i like that a lot too but i also

00:18:14   wouldn't mind to have a little more continuity and be like hey you know greg is going to take

00:18:20   you from not being able to lift a one pound weight to being you know to deadlifting 350 pounds or

00:18:26   whatever and you know it would be neat to be able to have that kind of continuity that being said

00:18:32   one of the things i do like is it seems that they're constantly updating the the app or the

00:18:36   the workouts with new workouts which is super awesome and in beachbody you know by comparison

00:18:41   it's like an ios release right like they have an entire program that lands all at once generally

00:18:46   speaking and that's that and then that particular trainer will come back in six months to a year with

00:18:51   another program that they just drop all at once and it's really nice to have apple fitness plus

00:18:56   having um you know regular updates and it seems like this is still going on as we speak which is

00:19:00   great uh i still think the information architecture is kind of kind of janky um being it's not

00:19:07   terribly easy and maybe it's just me but it's not terribly easy to find the workout you want

00:19:11   and for example i wanted to do a strength training workout yesterday the day before

00:19:15   and i wanted to do it and i wanted to focus on my upper body and it seemed like there wasn't really

00:19:21   it either wasn't accurately telling me what these workouts do or basically all the more total body

00:19:26   workouts which is fine but i would have liked to do something concentrating more on my like arms

00:19:31   and and chest and back and stuff in this particular day and i didn't seem that that was available but

00:19:37   again maybe that's casey problem uh finally i did do a workout with aaron simultaneously with aaron

00:19:43   on our apple tv this is the first of the app enabled apple tvs you know the first with the

00:19:48   sweet remote that we all love so much and perhaps i did something wrong i don't know but when i

00:19:54   started it it basically said okay who's doing this workout is it casey's apple watch and i said yeah

00:19:58   and then started the workout and that was that so there was no integration whatsoever with aaron's

00:20:04   watch now she does not have a user on the apple tv the fitness plus trial is associated with my

00:20:09   apple id so i can explain a way why this would be a thousand different ways it's not it's not

00:20:15   unreasonable but it would have been really nice if it could just detect oh there's another apple

00:20:20   watch nearby and there's only one other it's not like we're in a gymnasium where there's 500 in the

00:20:24   before times you know there's like one other apple watch nearby shall i offer it to that person and

00:20:30   that just did not happen and that's kind of too bad maybe we need an m1 or whatever it is or not

00:20:35   the m1 what's the um the u1 what's the proximity one uh u is the ultra wide band that is mysterious

00:20:41   and seemingly unused yeah exactly it's the airdrop animation chip maybe the next apple tv that's

00:20:48   coming in five years maybe that'll enable this sort of feature but that kind of bummed me out

00:20:52   that that basically what she had to do is just start a workout and she couldn't see any of her

00:20:56   stuff on the screen which again i don't necessarily take issue with i mean i'd like it if if her if

00:21:01   she showed up as well but i don't begrudge them for for only concentrating on one person but even

00:21:07   just starting the workout automatically and pausing it automatically would have been really nice

00:21:11   before we move on from this very quickly marco have you had a chance to do any of these yet

00:21:14   not yet um for various boring reasons but i i do intend to do with them soon yeah i really really

00:21:19   am interested to hear what you have to say particularly about the rowing stuff so because

00:21:22   i haven't tried any of that we are sponsored this week by the tech meme ride home podcast

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00:23:41   tech meme ride home for sponsoring our show an anonymous apple employee writes you're absolutely

00:23:49   correct that photos ui in an iphone 12 applies an hdr boost captures that were captured in hdr

00:23:55   capturing hardware like iphone 12 captures on the technical side this is achieved by storing a 2d

00:24:00   8-bit single channel grayscale image within each heek file heic file the this auxiliary file detects

00:24:07   excuse me dictates how much hdr boost and that's in quotes should be applied to each pixel when an

00:24:12   eight when an sdr source is viewed full screen in the ui this ensures that the original file is

00:24:17   always sdr and remains compatible with the outside world while also allowing in ecosystem devices and

00:24:22   displays to apply a quote hdr boost quote over them if they are capable of doing so and you can

00:24:27   see this in settings photos view full hdr that's pretty cool i know that and that also explains

00:24:34   that we were wondering like do they look blown out or weird on other devices and they do it in this

00:24:39   you know fairly clever way of like if the device doesn't know about that boost file it just just

00:24:44   ignores it and just looks like a normal photo yeah that's super cool uh with regard to iphone 12 and

00:24:50   12 pro screen brightness apple says that the 12 has 625 nits max brightness uh in typical modes

00:24:58   and normal modes and 1200 nits oh boy in in max brightness for hdr uh that was the iphone 12 the

00:25:04   iphone 12 pro by comparisons 800 instead of 625 for typical use and the same 1200 for hdr and

00:25:12   displaymate.com indicates that it's 825 nits when it's full screen with white image yeah i wish

00:25:16   displaymate had a little bit more info but basically like we were wondering how how high do the phones

00:25:20   go so apple has this info they don't go up to 1600 and the next question was can they do that 1200 on

00:25:25   the full screen and displaymate says no if it's full screen white it's update 25 so they're pretty

00:25:30   they're pretty darn good like there was a couple reviews on youtube of like if your iphone was a

00:25:34   television it would be like the best television ever made in terms of color fidelity and hdr and

00:25:40   so on and so forth unfortunately it's you know six inches so it's not really great as a tv unless you

00:25:45   put it really close to your face and then it's fine well that's me when i don't have my contacts in

00:25:49   oh goodness all right and then matthew smith writes in an episode 410 there was a question

00:25:56   about backing up icloud photos when you don't have disk space to accommodate your entire library

00:26:00   my problem is that i no longer have a mac at all this led me to a project called icloud photos

00:26:04   downloader ah yes this has been recommended to me several times it's written in python uses

00:26:08   pi icloud to call the icloud apis to download photos it supports two-factor auth and only needs

00:26:13   to re-authenticate on the interval that apple sets and matthew writes i believe it's currently

00:26:17   two months so it can be set up as a cron job or to run as a given interval i recently did a fresh

00:26:22   poll of my entire photo library which is over 30 000 photos and videos and it completed in under a

00:26:26   day subsequent jobs take complete very quickly using the hyphen hyphen until hyphen found option

00:26:32   i don't think it preserves any library database information but it does preserve xif data so it is

00:26:37   useful as a raw file level cloud level cloud to local backup that can be backed up to anywhere you

00:26:44   want yeah like i put this in here because this this is a solution for people who don't want to

00:26:50   deal with the max stuff but just want their data down somehow but i would caution people that stuff

00:26:55   like this where it's like oh someone made a python script that uses apis to get my photos that can

00:27:00   break it anytime because apple is not trying to make sure this maintains compatibility and the

00:27:04   second thing is if it doesn't do like database information which is like hey if you edit your

00:27:08   picture crop it adjust it rotate it add keywords to it don't like any of that stuff it seems like

00:27:14   this has no idea that that happened so because it doesn't pull any of the database info so what

00:27:18   you're just getting is the original raw captures if that's what you want and you don't mind it

00:27:22   maybe breaking sometime in the future this is a cool option to look into but don't think of it as

00:27:27   just a complete solution to the idea that i just want to you know a separate download of my full

00:27:33   iphone library somewhere indeed can you tell me about information that i missed from friend of

00:27:38   the show jonathan deets you should never skip the paragraphs i put no it's not true sometimes you do

00:27:42   have to skip them i put a lot of stuff in the show notes and casey he usually usually wisely condenses

00:27:46   them as needed but there was one bit of info that did get skipped over which i think was important

00:27:50   we were talking about the owc thunderbolt stuff last time the hub and the doc mark ordered the doc

00:27:55   one key piece of information which you may miss if you go to the website looking at is that

00:27:59   it requires not just big sur but it requires big sur 11.1 i don't know why it requires it it just

00:28:05   does but if you're not updated to big sur or even if you have big sur but you don't have the very

00:28:09   latest you can't use that odbc stuff so be aware yeah my understanding is that 11.1 added support

00:28:16   for whatever new thunderbolt controllers or chipsets are used in a lot of these ocean ridge

00:28:21   oh god really is that what it's called it was called goshin yeah that's my memory goshin is

00:28:25   everything a ridge goshin something i guess yeah so anyway mac os did not support this until 11.1

00:28:32   all right we talked last week about now is the time to do the big big sur update man i wish i

00:28:38   thought that one through before i started that's all right the big big sur update so how the

00:28:43   turntables uh all right i have not done any big sur updates to recap my macbook pro has been on

00:28:49   it for a while now but the imac pro i haven't touched i will soon but i just haven't gotten

00:28:53   to it marco what have you done well uh i have solved this problem in a different way but

00:28:59   suffice to suffice to say i am now running big sur on all of my max all right i am very very

00:29:05   curious to hear about this later john what's your situation i did what i said i picked this you know

00:29:11   week-long gap in my podcasting schedule aside now is the time to bite the bullet and do the update

00:29:15   after doing many many backups i did um update for the most part went well except for i mean this

00:29:22   would have been an update would be like disastrous to like a non-computer nerdy person who doesn't

00:29:26   want to deal with this stuff like i did the update everything seemed to go fine and then i went in to

00:29:31   you know give some app permissions because some app needed some permissions that it didn't have

00:29:35   whatever and i go into the security and privacy thing i guess this is already off into computer

00:29:40   nerd land because who else knows to do anyway i'm in there and it's like oh okay give this app

00:29:45   access to whatever uh enter your password and enter my password and it's like no sorry it does

00:29:50   a little dialogue shake i'm like did i mistype it enter my password no sorry i'm like look i just

00:29:56   logged in with this password right so i try all the things all the mac os 10 lore of like well

00:30:01   i don't know if you guys remember this occasionally still does it it'll bring up a dialogue that asks

00:30:05   you to enter your password and it's it wants your account password like your mac account password

00:30:10   right um for a while apple would let you have it synced with your icloud one but i don't think

00:30:15   they even let you do that anymore anyway it would put in the name field sometimes it would put your

00:30:19   full name and not your username right and sometimes that dialogue would reject your your username or

00:30:27   password if you didn't delete your full name john space eric usa delete that and put in your

00:30:32   username then it would let you through so i tried that trick and that didn't work log that back in

00:30:36   restart so on and so forth again logging out and back in with the password that it's asking like

00:30:41   i'm like i'm logging in with this password i know it's my password i changed my password because hey

00:30:45   you know sometimes maybe you just need to change your change my password nope still wouldn't take

00:30:50   it so that's not a good start like you just do an os update and you know nothing would would accept

00:30:54   it like sudo wouldn't accept it from the command line like my anything that wanted to elevate part

00:30:59   my permissions thought that i just did not know my user account password the one i just logged in with

00:31:05   and it's always scary because i'm always afraid like i'll log out or restart and it just won't

00:31:09   let me back in period and that's a really bad situation um but then i did some googling uh and

00:31:15   then googling says oh yeah this happens all the time of course it's been it's been a problem

00:31:19   since the big serb beta and the solution is an smc reset this why why is it an smc i don't know

00:31:27   and by the way smc reset um i don't have the link for the show maybe in case you can find it but

00:31:31   smc areas that used to be simpler but now that there are so many different max there are you know

00:31:36   intel max before the t2 after the t2 then the arm max and then there's desktop versus portable you

00:31:42   may think you know how to do an smc reset but it actually varies a lot based on what kind of

00:31:48   computer you have so i would recommend not trying to memorize how to do an smc reset but always go

00:31:52   into the most recent apple support document that takes you to this like you know phone tree if it's

00:31:57   like what kind of computer you have a desktop or a laptop does that have an arm processor and intel

00:32:00   processor does it have a t2 or does it not have a t2 and then finally you get the instructions how

00:32:04   to do an smc reset in your computer so anyway i did an smc reset in my computer and suddenly it

00:32:09   took my admin password not a great start but in the grand scheme of things not fatal um as for

00:32:16   the update uh we're talking about it wasn't any software that i was missing one i was forgetting

00:32:20   was super duper i i knew that super duper wasn't updated for it but i had already sort of resigned

00:32:24   myself to it and hadn't thought about it for a while partially because i'm leaving my super duper

00:32:29   update on catalina for now just as my like ultimate ultimate backup because i've already replaced all

00:32:34   my other time machine backup so i want to have one catalina backup in there and partially because i

00:32:38   do have carbon copy cloner as well and that can do an update albeit i think it does a full update

00:32:43   every time which is kind of crappy right so i'm still waiting for super duper to update but uh

00:32:48   big sur does not make it easy for super duper to do the stuff that it does due to all of the changes

00:32:53   um and then the big feature the big feature i wanted out of big sur which is faster uh

00:32:58   incremental time machine backups on apfs i think i talked about this when i tried it on the betas

00:33:03   it is just as fast in the release version an incremental time machine backup

00:33:07   to a spinning disk uh running apfs uh was done under six minutes 345 seconds total

00:33:15   which sounds super slow until you know how slow it was before before we measured like half an

00:33:19   hour or an hour just to figure out that it didn't really have much to do uh six minutes is glorious

00:33:25   so i am very satisfied with the increased speed of my time machine backups and otherwise i'm just

00:33:30   hanging out in big sur and everything's fine nice i did not peg me as the slacker of the three of us

00:33:36   i'm very surprised but here we are all right matthew taylor writes with some airpods max audio

00:33:41   settings marco you did return them is that correct uh no i have simply transferred them to another

00:33:47   member of my household now hop says a really expensive pair of headphones no tiff likes them

00:33:52   so she's keeping them good deal all right so matthew writes well this will certainly not

00:33:56   solve marco's airpods max discomfort problems i wanted to share a set of off the beaten path

00:34:00   tweaks that in my experience dramatically improve sound quality so matthew writes go into settings

00:34:06   accessibility audio visual headphone accommodations and lo and behold there are a number of airpods

00:34:11   max sound settings i personally says matthew prefer tune audio for brightness strong this is

00:34:17   utterly transformative for my favorite new order tracks and is easy it's easy to hear the difference

00:34:21   by rapidly toggling headphone accommodations on and off once the tune audio mode is set only marco

00:34:27   could tell us how this affects fish i can indeed tell you how it affects fish because i actually

00:34:31   tested these settings oh good they're designed for like people who are hard of hearing in certain

00:34:36   frequency ranges want to be able to hear their environment better say like to have people like

00:34:41   if they want to hear people speaking nearby more clearly than they would hear with unmodified sound

00:34:46   input then this can help that because there's basically settings to like boost the mid-range

00:34:49   and stuff like that i tried these settings and i found them to be probably very useful for that

00:34:54   purpose but the settings are fairly aggressive i think a little too aggressive to be used for

00:35:00   general music listening like i think if you're expecting this to sound to make music sound nicer

00:35:05   i think it'll be a little bit harsh to to do for that so feel free you know anybody

00:35:09   out there you want to try this feel free but i wouldn't count on this if you're kind of on

00:35:13   the fence about whether these are for you i wouldn't count on this as something that would

00:35:16   make or break that decision unless you have a specific accessibility need that these would solve

00:35:21   quick real-time follow-up on that previous item someone in the chat room asked um uh apple juice

00:35:26   says i thought apfs wasn't recommended for spinning discs i know we talked about this before but just

00:35:31   a quick repetition apfs slower is slower than hfs plus on spinning discs uh so that's why you hear

00:35:37   it not recommended but uh the new time machine uses as far as i know special features of apfs to

00:35:44   be faster and i think actually i'm big sir that may be your only choice for a time machine backup

00:35:50   destination uh so that's why even though it's a spinning disc i'm going with apfs and the second

00:35:55   thing is when people ask me hey i've got a new spinning disc attached to my mac should i format

00:35:59   it as hfs plus or apfs even though i know it will be slower i usually tell people to format it as

00:36:05   apfs just because it has more features like snapshots and so on and in my experience it is

00:36:13   more reliable than hfs plus now granted that experience is not very long because apfs hasn't

00:36:17   been out of the mac for very long but that's why i'm recommending that i usually preface it by

00:36:21   saying are you doing something high performance or whatever but even though it's slower i still

00:36:25   in general recommend using apfs on spinning hard drives unless you really really need the extra

00:36:30   performance tell me about the airpods max fat lightning connector what is this about i mean i

00:36:37   don't know what it actually is i i i linked to the i fix it tear down but they didn't go to this

00:36:40   level of detail so this is from a tweet that somebody uh posted we're talking about how like

00:36:45   electricity is sent through the the yoke the little metal thing that goes over your head to

00:36:50   the other ear cup and it's like some kind of brushes or something according to that uh snazzy

00:36:54   video that like touched the metal thing or whatever someone yanked the the little yoke out

00:36:59   of the ear cup and what you see in the end of it is nothing looks like a tiny fat lightning connector

00:37:04   with two contacts it's super weird looking i mean it's not really a connector like this is just the

00:37:08   internals of the device but i just think it's funny that like the dna of apple's products

00:37:13   penetrates so deeply to parts that you will never see unless you literally like tear it apart like

00:37:18   you've got the you know the the digital crown in the same photo it's like oh that's from the watch

00:37:22   and then when it comes time to make some kind of connector that you're never going to see this is

00:37:27   part of the internal structure of a thing it ends up they end up making something it's like well

00:37:31   we've done connectors like this before why not just make it the same way we make lightning but

00:37:35   fatter so there it is this cute little two prong fat lightning thing that is inside all of your

00:37:41   earphones check out the picture in the show notes and or show art chapter art indeed and then

00:37:47   somebody has stepped up to the plate to make the case we always wanted yeah it was the first third

00:37:52   party airpods max case i've seen and lo and behold it is just a regular case now obviously the case

00:37:57   maker can't change how the the airpods max fold but it's just a hard case they just took a hard

00:38:03   case and wrapped it around that shape uh they put in the little magnets to make it go into super low

00:38:08   power mode right that wasn't apparently too hard to do uh you know it it zippers around the entire

00:38:14   thing it's got a little handle it's got storage on the inside and it's got a little pocket on

00:38:19   the outside so look at that apple it wasn't so hard for 500 and something dollars you too could

00:38:24   have included a case that actually encases your headphones instead of whatever that weird thing

00:38:28   is that you include it and this is only 100 bucks i mean yeah it's an expensive case like you know

00:38:34   and it's fancy or whatever but like it doesn't have to be you know just look at the sony case or the

00:38:38   boze cases they're not the fanciest things in the world but it's just a plastic shell with a zipper

00:38:42   around it it's not rocket science and i've already ordered this because even though i'm giving the

00:38:47   headphones to tiff she needs a good case too everyone deserves a good case and yeah this is

00:38:52   and this is from waterfield designs you know sfbags.com they've been around forever making

00:38:56   products for pretty much everything apple sells and they're pretty high quality i've had a few

00:39:01   other things before and they've been very good so 100 bucks for something from them is actually

00:39:06   pretty reasonable and speaking of cases uh my final iphone 12 case finally came i ordered this

00:39:14   over a month and a half ago and it just came in the mail it was from overseas and you know shipping

00:39:19   is all weird and covid and yada yada so don't blame it if you've missed but that's what i've

00:39:23   been waiting for so previously i had the apple silicon case that i talked about in a past episode

00:39:27   and then the senna leather case that i talked about in the past episode and now finally this is

00:39:32   the let me look up the name of this thing uh the olexar leather iphone 12 case and it's just like

00:39:41   the other cases that i ordered it's got an open bottom so you can see the entire bottom of the

00:39:46   phone and so you can swipe up from that edge it is black it is leather it has buttons that are made

00:39:51   of metal that poke out they're not little leather lumps uh it doesn't have any markings other than

00:39:55   the brand at the bottom what i did was i i looked at it before i decided to put over on my phone and

00:40:01   said am i going to take off the senna case and put this one on in general i tried to only put a case

00:40:06   on my phone once just because i feel like they get they get loose as you take the phone in and out of

00:40:09   them right uh and this one looked good it looked like the buttons were to let that go by all right

00:40:18   go ahead it's fine um the buttons were more recessed than the senna case and they were not

00:40:24   textured like the rough texture that i complained about them um so it's more like the apple leather

00:40:29   case like if you look at the apple other case is actually like look if you look at the volume

00:40:32   buttons there's actually a little trough in the side of the case where the volume buttons are

00:40:36   so they don't it's not like there's a case and then buttons stick out from that there's a

00:40:40   divot and in the divot are the volume buttons the volume buttons still stick out farther than the

00:40:44   case itself but not as far as you would think um and then you know the power button the other side

00:40:49   so i put it on um the leather is nowhere near as tacky as the senna case the senna case is the

00:40:56   tackiest leather case i've ever seen in my life like out of the box it's already super grippy

00:41:01   like i said it also the senna case seemed like it scratched easily it was very soft that's part of

00:41:05   what made it tacky but i did like that feel this one feels a lot more like not the apple leather

00:41:11   cases but it's it feels i was like is this leather or is it plastic it feels very hard so this is the

00:41:16   type of leather case it's going to take a while to break in i smelled it and looked at the label says

00:41:20   is this actually leather or they just sent me a plastic case that you know that just got ripped

00:41:24   off pretty sure it is some kind of leather or it's plastic with a leathery smell on it i don't know

00:41:29   they don't know if they're filming me but anyway the price is suspicious yeah yeah it is it's super

00:41:34   cheap like it was like 30 bucks or something 17 17 yeah whatever it was like i i don't know i i

00:41:40   don't think it's plastic because it's too soft to be plastic it smells like leather it feels like

00:41:45   leather it's i don't know anyway i put it on the phone it is not as slippery as the phone by itself

00:41:51   it's not as tacky as the senna case the volume buttons are in fact metal and the power button

00:41:56   are metal and they're black fit and finish is what you would expect from a was it 17 euros or 17 bucks

00:42:02   17 us dollars all right the volume button fit and finish was not that great the lower volume button

00:42:09   stuck out way more than the the higher volume button and it was like on an angle

00:42:14   and i was like can i live with this can i live with one of my volume buttons poking out more

00:42:20   than the other the answer is no i couldn't so i took the phone out of the case and then i i

00:42:25   slowly scratched away at the underside of the volume button that stuck out more

00:42:32   and this is another reason i think it's leather because as i'm scratching away at it like if you

00:42:35   can imagine taking a little metal thing and scraping away at leather you know how like leather

00:42:39   like resists like it doesn't it's not like plastic but it felt like leather on the inside too so i

00:42:44   scraped away a whole bunch put it back in and now the the volume down button sticks out only slightly

00:42:51   more than the volume up button no one but me would ever be able to tell anyway so this is the case

00:42:55   i'm using that it is the by far the cheapest case that i got but it is also the closest to what i'm

00:43:00   looking for it is the most like the apple case but with no bottom on it so for now i'm sticking with

00:43:06   this case and i already knocked the phone off of my nightstand onto the floor with this case on it

00:43:10   and it seemed to protect it pretty well so i'm i'm doing uh you know doing pretty well i went back

00:43:16   and looked at all my uh iphone case tabs to see what other alternatives that that are out there

00:43:21   that i might be interested in buying and none of them really stood out to me i know there are lots

00:43:25   of other options but all of them had something about them that i like worse than this case that

00:43:30   i have on it now so so i guess this is it until until unless this case totally fails or something

00:43:36   terrible happens to it um i'm sticking with the super cheap olixar case i'm not really loving it

00:43:43   oh and one more thing about it is it has like a little plastic ring around the camera it's almost

00:43:48   entirely flush but not 100 entirely flush so when you lay it down flat on a hard surface again no

00:43:56   human could tell this but if you lay it down flat on a hard surface you can move it like a half a

00:44:00   millimeter at one of the corners i'll i'll deal with it it's fine i feel like that's uh going on

00:44:07   your gravestone i'll deal with it it's fine we are sponsored this week by boxcryptor many of us use

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00:46:05   about boxcryptor's cloud encryption made in germany at boxcryptor.com thank you so much

00:46:10   to boxcryptor for sponsoring our show earlier tonight i read a fascinating tweet and it it was

00:46:21   as follows selling my imac pro 10 core 64 gigs ram 4 terabyte ssd vega 56 apple just replaced the

00:46:28   screen and logic board there's a 90-day warranty similar use config sell for such and such and i

00:46:33   want such and such this tweet this fascinating tweet written by marco armand what's going on man

00:46:41   like it says on the tin my imac pro is uh sold boxed up will be shipped out tomorrow uh i got

00:46:49   it back from apple tonight it's fine it's perfectly working order as far as i can tell they they did

00:46:53   indeed replace the logic board you got it back tonight yep and within an hour and a half two

00:46:59   hours you have boxed it up and prepared it to be sold correct oh boy all right what's going on well

00:47:05   you know without boring listeners with too much of the past details you you already know that i had

00:47:08   my imac pro in for service because of you know dramatically increased fan noise recently apple

00:47:15   indeed diagnosed the problem as something with the fan controller on the motherboard probably

00:47:18   and so they replaced the entire logic board and the display as well for unrelated reasons they

00:47:25   said they they there was a small chip in the corner and it wasn't noted on the way in and so

00:47:30   they weren't sure if it was my fault or their fault so they replaced the display great well that's kind

00:47:34   of nice yeah that's really nice um so anyway you know when you when you go without an apple desktop

00:47:41   for a while you know i've been i've been without it for about i don't know a week and a half two

00:47:44   weeks something like that and uh so you know i had to get used to life without it you know i'm not

00:47:48   going to just stop needing a desktop so i basically moved in to my macbook air my new m1 macbook air

00:47:56   and not not full edit and transfer everything over because there's first of all space to transfer

00:48:01   everything over because i don't have i don't have four terabytes in this macbook air because it

00:48:04   doesn't exist yet and so you know i i have like i have a small minimal setup here but i've been

00:48:09   getting along with it just fine and i've really gotten used to as i mentioned i think last week

00:48:15   just how fast a lot of things are on this machine it is so good and and before you know i've been

00:48:21   kind of away from my my main desktop situation for about a week but before that i was doing all

00:48:27   my work on this for about another week and so i've done all the heavy lifting i've had it connected to

00:48:31   the ultra fine screen uh you know for big desktop work i've had it you know run it in clamshell

00:48:38   mode for there in the entire time i've had it working there so far which admittedly was only

00:48:42   a week or so clamshell mode was a hundred percent reliable that's impossible i didn't have a single

00:48:49   problem entering or leaving clamshell mode connecting or disconnecting the cable and having

00:48:54   anything you know wake up correctly never had an issue with sleep and wake for you know just

00:48:58   regularly you know wake up when i get there in the morning and there was there were zero problems

00:49:04   with clamshell mode never had a problem with heat or thermals because well it's already pretty low

00:49:09   heat and there's no fan to go crazy anyway in the map book air i realized in in this week of using

00:49:15   it there and now this week of using it separately you know away from a desk i'm fine with this this

00:49:21   is what i need i just need more screen space and a keyboard and mouse and i have that there and you

00:49:26   know i have the ultra fine i don't love that part of it but otherwise like i love this setup when

00:49:34   you send in an apple desktop for a repair these days that requires a logic board replacement

00:49:40   you're going to get it back blank and sure enough i did i expected that i expected that would

00:49:44   probably happen i you know i made a backup and everything but resetting up a computer is a lot

00:49:50   of work and it's a lot of time you know i've already had to set up this new one that's enough

00:49:54   time right there and then if i want to reset up the old one or any other desktop i have to then

00:50:00   clone everything back i'm going to lose probably a day to the cloning process or the you know the

00:50:06   reverse cloning process itself followed by all the apps they're going to break because this is now a

00:50:11   new motherboard with a new serial number and it's going everything that uses drm is going to break

00:50:17   and have to be reauthorized reinstalled like it's so it's just it's a big pain to do all this and

00:50:23   you know this is why again like when when people whenever i have problems that you know every three

00:50:28   years i have problems with my desktop that that that you know i want to get it serviced and

00:50:32   everyone's just bring it into apple just bring it in what's the big deal no it's a big deal this is

00:50:37   a huge pain in the butt to you know it's a lot of time that you lose it's a lot of you know not only

00:50:44   are you have to be without your computer for two weeks maybe but you have the transfer process you

00:50:50   know there and back of you know not only physically bringing it to the store and everything which

00:50:54   itself is time and hassle and effort but also like having to move your data off of it and then move

00:50:59   your data back into it when it's over like that's a big pain in the butt it's a huge cost and time

00:51:04   and frankly i'm busy i don't have time to be doing that very often i really don't want to take that

00:51:10   burden on unnecessarily and this is why like as much as i've loved using imax as my main desktops

00:51:17   for these last six years it's really frustrating whenever i have to bring it in and the screen and

00:51:26   the computer are one piece and i have to bring the entire thing in for a problem with one or the

00:51:31   other but probably not both in these cases so far and i have to be without my main computer and when

00:51:38   my screen is my desktop i also have less flexibility with like what can i do in the meantime if i have

00:51:44   to bring this thing in for repair you know if i had a separate screen like the ultra fine then i can

00:51:49   plug my laptop into that and basically just resume my setup like change almost nothing else because

00:51:54   what i did here like i basically changed nothing else kept the same keyboard mouse desk speakers

00:51:58   everything else just moved this monitor into that setup move the iMac away and it's really nice to

00:52:05   just plug in a laptop you know if tiff has to come into my office to record a podcast she can just

00:52:09   plug her laptop into it and i can take mine out and bring it upstairs like it's so there's lots

00:52:13   of like nice little bonuses to having a more flexible setup where those components are

00:52:19   separated that's the whole that was always the whole appeal for me of a Mac Pro in addition to

00:52:23   having like the super fast performance and everything having the monitor be separate from

00:52:29   the computer whatever form that takes whether it's like a Mac Mini or a Mac Pro or a laptop

00:52:33   having those things be separate has significant benefits sometimes and for you it might not be

00:52:40   all the time for me it wasn't all the time but sometimes that has massive benefits and it's

00:52:46   during those times that i always curse myself for getting these iMacs because they're great at all

00:52:50   other times but when you when you run into a problem with one of these parts and you have to

00:52:55   have the whole thing sent in for service that's really cumbersome i'm not sure if you're aware

00:53:00   of this but your laptop has a screen attached to it yes thank you i'm using it right now if

00:53:04   something goes wrong with that screen you will have to actually bring the whole laptop in

00:53:08   obviously that's easier than bringing your iMac in but i also say that if you if you're getting

00:53:12   a Mac Pro because you think it'll be easier to bring in just the computer part i have bad news

00:53:16   that's fair so i got an email from listener Matthew Taylor uh well almost a month ago uh you

00:53:25   know dear Marco and ATP you guys got this too but no i've been talking with Matthew here and there

00:53:29   a little bit but anyway uh they say here's what i suggest for Marco buy a second m1 macbook air

00:53:38   as your main work machine and use your existing macbook air as your lightweight fun mac

00:53:42   number two buy the pro display xdr if you need more ports buy the cal digit ts3 plus doc

00:53:49   sell the lg 5k after repair sell the iMac Pro then wait until all the dust shakes out over the next

00:53:56   six to 18 months on new high-end macbook pros imax and mac pros and buy whatever you want then

00:54:01   Matthew is using this setup the the macbook air with the pro display xdr and it's apparently

00:54:08   phenomenal the best mac experience imaginable zero noise ultra fast gorgeous tons of screen

00:54:15   real estate and plenty of expansion and then later this other thing that stuck out to me

00:54:19   all intel max are rapidly depreciating assets we're experiencing a once in a generation quantum leap

00:54:28   in speed and capabilities and that that kind of infected my brain and i've been thinking you know

00:54:35   this is this is correct this is this is all like on the level like this is totally correct

00:54:41   as soon as you use the m1 stuff if it fits your need profile it is amazing and i understand

00:54:51   there's a lot of people for whom the m1 stuff does not fit their need profile yet i totally get that

00:54:56   you know if you need more than 32 or more than 16 gigs of ram you're out of luck for now with this

00:55:01   stuff if you need like super high-end gpu performance maybe if you're like a video editor or

00:55:06   something this is not going to be great for you you know if you need more than two terabytes this

00:55:10   is not great for you if you need a laptop with a bigger screen than 13 inches again not great for

00:55:14   you or more than two ports you know like there's huge holes in this lineup that are not filled yet

00:55:18   if you need to run intel stuff if you need to run windows like those the needs for intel machines

00:55:26   are still going to be best served by intel machines for a while but my needs are none of those things

00:55:34   for the most part like yeah i would like more ram i would like more disk space but i'm getting by

00:55:39   just fine for now on 16 gigs and it's faster and lots of things i do in the worst case you know a

00:55:45   few things are slightly slower like when i have to launch a rosetta application that's fairly large

00:55:52   like adobe audition or photoshop yeah it takes a couple extra bounces on the dock before it launches

00:55:57   once it's open it's fine it's fast like so it's you know it's not this isn't that big of a deal

00:56:02   and in every other way this machine is actually either the same or way better for me and for what

00:56:07   i do i again as i mentioned in the past i love desktops and i will probably return to desktops

00:56:16   fairly soon but for right now i feel like this this really is a like once in a generation

00:56:23   kind of time where right now the best computer apple makes for most people unless you have one

00:56:31   of those special needs is the macbook air which has almost no downsides at all like there's not

00:56:40   even a fan and i hate fans by the way we've we've had a couple of people write in to say that not

00:56:45   only does yes the lg definitely have a fan but also apparently like the previous apple cinema

00:56:50   display also apparently it's fairly common for monitors to have for big monitors to have fans

00:56:57   the thunderbolt display the fan i think it's funny describing the ideal setup of a fanless

00:57:01   macbook air connected to a monitor with multiple fans yes yeah but anyway i've always hated fan

00:57:07   noise and in recent years i've been spoiled by computers that didn't make much fan noise for

00:57:13   the most part and so i've i've loved that and i don't i don't ever ever really want to go back but

00:57:18   when i've tried going laptop only or laptop primary in the past things were different

00:57:25   clamshell mode sucked and like all intel max clamshell mode still sucks because it as many

00:57:33   of you out there know because you do it it works most of the time but working most of the time is

00:57:38   very different from working every time and so far with the m1 it works every time and it's glorious

00:57:46   and you know also in the past laptops were significant compromises in performance

00:57:51   or if you push them at all they would sound like jet engines next to your desk and those things

00:57:58   aren't true with this laptop and before you know they would there would be like significant

00:58:02   downsides with things like ports and another expansion and well if the thunderbolt stuff ends

00:58:08   up being reliable which so far early reviews of this of the new owc thing are very positive and

00:58:15   even the caldigit thing that i have people say like you know the ethernet port and sound ports

00:58:19   are apparently a little bit buggy for some people myself included but everything else about it which

00:58:23   is most of what i'd be using it for everyone says is rock solid so it does seem like it's possible

00:58:28   to get good thunderbolt stuff these days especially if the ethernet on the new owc one is solid

00:58:33   and so it seems like most of the reasons why i've not liked laptop only setups or

00:58:41   laptop primary setups in the past most of those reasons are not there anymore or at least are

00:58:47   significantly reduced and it might only be for the next six months you know this this is a unique time

00:58:55   maybe in six months when you know new maybe new m1 max or maybe maybe new you know m whatever based

00:59:02   i max will be out by then or the 16 inch macbook pro will be out by then or i i don't expect

00:59:08   whatever you know whatever the new rumored mac pro is that maybe that's going to be a significant

00:59:11   later than that but you know in a couple years maybe i won't want to be using a macbook air

00:59:18   in in six months maybe i won't want to you know maybe maybe in six months i'll say oh man this

00:59:22   this new m1x based you know imac or whatever is so good i'm going to relocate the laptop back to

00:59:30   secondary status but right now during this period this is the only computer i want to use it's that

00:59:38   good and i totally love using it and when i have used it with the monitor and the keyboard and mouse

00:59:45   it's been just as good as a desktop for my needs you know i i just i could use more storage space

00:59:52   and that's about it i also looked up the trade-in value of the mac mini that i bought earlier i

01:00:01   think this i think early 2020 for studio b upstairs which we're not using anymore because of our you

01:00:08   know different situation now we're not using studio b anymore so this mac mini has been sitting there

01:00:12   this is where the lg 5k came from it used to be the monitor for this mac mini and the trade-in

01:00:17   value for it on apple's trade-in thing is like 650 dollars and i can like i can get a new and this

01:00:25   it's low it's only it's only eight gigs uh and 512 gig storage i can get a new m1 mac mini that is

01:00:33   also eight gigs and it's also 512 storage for like 200 more than that or something it's it's not much

01:00:40   more than that so i'm gonna trade this in too i already filled out their form earlier tonight i'm

01:00:46   trading this into ample i'm gonna i'm gonna trade it in and i order myself an m1 mac mini to serve

01:00:50   as a home server and that's going to solve my large storage needs for now i'm gonna do you know

01:00:56   my laptop only has one terabyte and it's too late to return it and two terabyte ones are back ordered

01:01:01   till february anyway i'm gonna do exactly what i told the ask atp writer last week to do about

01:01:07   large photo storage right now i don't have any max that are signed into my iCloud account that

01:01:11   have all the photos on them but i'm gonna use the new mac mini to do exactly that with an external

01:01:17   hard drive it's totally fine like so now i will i will make my primary computer not have all the

01:01:24   photos on it but that's fine as long as i have something with all the photos on it i'm fine

01:01:28   i'm gonna you know try to live on one terabyte as my primary computer which is not going to be like

01:01:33   incredibly simple but with some discipline i think it'll be totally reasonable to do many people out

01:01:38   there do it you know i've i've lived on that before on my primary so it's been it's been a while but

01:01:43   you know i have a bit more fish since then but but i think i think it'll be fine and uh and that's

01:01:50   gonna be that that's gonna be what i use for now and i'll say you know again i'm not gonna make any

01:01:53   promises i know myself well enough to know that as soon as apple releases something better and

01:01:56   faster i'm gonna rationalize getting it but for now i'm going to do this exact setup i'm going to

01:02:03   have this map book air and i'm going to bring the lg 5k back from the beach because i hate it and

01:02:13   that will be my non-beach monitor at my alternate setup here and at the beach i'm going to buy

01:02:19   another lg 5k just kidding i ordered the xdr i was gonna say i just lost a tremendous bet with

01:02:27   myself oh okay the all's right in the world because i the thought of you not setting money a flame for

01:02:33   the fun of it is just so foreign to me so okay the pro display xdr now i am a little i am a little

01:02:39   surprised though can can you tell me why i'm trying to figure out a way to phrase this question

01:02:45   i don't actually take any particular issue with anything you've said it's obviously your right to

01:02:49   do whatever you want i think it makes sense but if you like desktops so darn much first of all why

01:02:54   don't you marry them but why not get like why not use the mac minis the primary and use the air as a

01:02:59   satellite i might do that um so you know the mac mini the uh the m1 mac mini is not going to arrive

01:03:07   because i i ordered it with the storage i should have ordered on the first one it's not going to

01:03:10   arrive until like mid february oh that's a bummer i basically i ordered it with the maxed out

01:03:15   configuration first of all because it wasn't that much money because this m1 stuff is fantastic

01:03:20   second of all i want to leave that option open so like i got a configuration that leaves that

01:03:25   door open so that if i want to when the mac mini arrives i can make it my desktop i do like having

01:03:31   having two computers like it is nice for in other ways you know as much as i was talking last week

01:03:36   kind of i said i just have one like there are advantage to having two as well there are advantage

01:03:40   to having a desktop that's always plugged in always set up you know always has all your windows

01:03:44   and your ssh connections open and all the windows are in the right places like you know there are

01:03:48   certainly advantages to that and i'm going to see how that how that goes over time but for now my

01:03:53   plan is to keep the laptop as primary but you know i'll re-evaluate that decision when the mac mini

01:04:00   arrives in february but until then i'm fine with it and either way i i'm going all all m1 and

01:04:08   external monitors and that's that's going to be it because it just it's such a nice it's such a nice

01:04:14   setup and i am i'm more mobile this year than in the past looking forward at you know how our family

01:04:21   plans to live for the next few years we are probably going to stay fairly mobile for a while

01:04:27   and so i i have a need for more mobile setup than i had before and this is just working so darn well

01:04:34   in so many ways i'm really enjoying it and and so that's it and you know we'll see what happens down

01:04:40   the road maybe i get the the mini mac pro that mark erman thinks exists um but until then uh i'm

01:04:46   gonna have you know a laptop and a mac mini serving all of my needs i have two sets of

01:04:52   questions for you one uh how did you not manage to find a way to get a non-gold macbook error in this

01:04:59   equation like you give that one to tiff you order the non-gold one with two terabytes like is that

01:05:04   is that not in the mix somewhere what's happening on that front if my gold one terabyte model was

01:05:11   still under the holiday return thing i might have considered doing some kind of a swap like that but

01:05:16   it's not not a swap like an additional an additional non-gold macbook here honestly the gold's not

01:05:22   really that big of a problem for me like it's it's a weird color i i knew that going into it

01:05:26   in certain lights it looks a little more pink than than what i would prefer in certain lights it looks

01:05:32   weirdly orange which is kind of cool like it's it's a weird color but i still like that because

01:05:37   i don't get excited at all about the silver or the gray at all like i i look at those and i think this

01:05:42   is the same old computer that i've seen a million times that i've owned a million times and so having

01:05:48   it be this weird orange pink gold thing makes it seem new even though it's kind of an odd color and

01:05:55   in certain life i don't like how it looks it at least looks fresh and new which it is on the

01:06:00   inside and it's kind of nice to have the outside you know convey that to me all right and second

01:06:05   set of questions nano non-nano and did you get the stand i got the stand and i got non-nano because

01:06:12   i was a little concerned about the the cleaning aspect of it of the nano and i've been using a

01:06:20   glass-fronted monitor in this exact position for six months and it's been totally fine so i don't

01:06:28   expect to uh you know to need the nano texture where it's going all right so this is the law

01:06:33   of conservation of fans in your office you get a computer without them you get a monitor with some

01:06:39   we'll maintain the same amount yep well this all sounds good because i feel like as you

01:06:44   change computers six months or whatever from now you'll be able to like pass things on so the

01:06:50   laptop that say you decide you want to get something else whatever that something else

01:06:53   may be that laptop can get passed down very easily to be useful as a small light laptop for anyone

01:06:57   else in the household who wants to use or even just for you to use as your lightweight computer

01:07:01   and then you can rotate in uh you know a beefier mac mini or a half-sized mac pro or whatever

01:07:08   or even if you get an iMac right you could still have the iMac and still have this big screen and

01:07:12   use the big screen to hook up to one of the laptops that's floating around right so you

01:07:15   have a lot of options now with these modular components i i still think you have a little

01:07:19   bit of a risk area in the the hub zone i mean i know you're working on that you got the odsc

01:07:25   one coming um we'll see how that goes and the cal digit and everything in the mix uh which is why

01:07:31   maybe an iMac will be attractive because maybe by the time that comes down the pike you're

01:07:34   sick of dealing with thunderbolt and hubs and stuff and you just are just gonna get the new

01:07:39   iMac because it it's a touch screen and it's really cool new design or whatever but uh but

01:07:43   we'll see i think you have a reasonable path forward for all your weird computing needs now

01:07:48   that you've now that you've finally gotten over the hump that took me a while to get over as well

01:07:52   to buy the horrendously expensive monitor that is very big yeah and like i've heard from other

01:07:57   people who have it since since last week as well and everyone who i've heard from says the same

01:08:01   thing it's fantastic just do it like just just buy the thing like it's great so i i still don't

01:08:07   feel good about how much it costs but i i will move past that as i do with every apple price

01:08:13   it'll be painful and the good thing is when apple comes out with a better monitor it will be like

01:08:19   six years from now like when the oled apple display comes out it'll be so long from now right because

01:08:24   they they have proven they do not update remember we're waiting for them to come up with new monitors

01:08:29   like what was the biggest one i think the uh the 30 inch went away i don't know if you guys were

01:08:33   in the in the scene at this time but the 30 inch went away and we're like when are they going to

01:08:38   replace the 30 inch and just years would pass and nothing would happen then eventually we just

01:08:41   forgot the 30 inch ever existed and it was like well the 27 inches are out uh but i think they're

01:08:46   probably going to have new displays this was in our time where they're probably going to have a

01:08:49   new 27 inch soon that just never materialized it was just or when it came it was just like the

01:08:53   thunderbolt one but it was the same exact display with just weird pigtail stuff like that the the

01:08:59   good and bad thing about the 6k is i feel like it is a product line that apple that when apple

01:09:04   obsoletes it they're going to take their sweet time because they're just going to keep selling

01:09:08   this thing for the same exact price long after all the technology and it is outdated and then finally

01:09:13   at some point after the next round table in 2027 they'll be like oh here's the new you know micro

01:09:19   led whatever not not micro what is the i get confused what's the one where every individual

01:09:24   pixel is an led oh that's that's micro i think or nano or something i got it right then okay yeah

01:09:28   but here's the new micro led 8k display that'll be like 2030 so uh despite this monitor being

01:09:34   ridiculously overpriced at least you will have a long period of time to let that overpricedness

01:09:39   soak in yeah yeah the only thing that that will really annoy me is if they really do release a 5k

01:09:47   27 inch monitor for like two thousand dollars thinking that yeah like you know six months well

01:09:52   here's the thing the odds of that happening are actually much higher than them replacing the 6k

01:09:56   within 8k or something but if that happens i think you'll be fine because you'd be like yeah but i

01:10:01   know i'm used to 6k and if we go back to 5k it'll feel small because like i said when i first got my

01:10:05   monitor at first it felt so big i didn't know where to look and then like a half an hour later it's

01:10:09   just normal and now if i look at it my go back to my wife's 5k i'm like oh look at how do you get by

01:10:13   with the small screen it's like just you just get used to having the extra real real estate and so

01:10:19   when they come out with the 5k you're gonna feel bad that you it's like less than half the price

01:10:23   or whatever and you would have been perfectly happy with it but now you're not going to be happy

01:10:26   it's like why would i get a smaller screen yeah yeah probably well well because i will be coming

01:10:32   back periodically to this the place where i'll have the lg 5k and also i'll have to do some work

01:10:38   on that periodically so that'll that'll remind me every like you know every every month or two like

01:10:42   oh crap this look look at how small this is and that's gonna be worse in other ways like i i i can

01:10:47   tell you that your your uh protos play xdr will not shake when you type it better not for the

01:10:54   thousand dollar stand on it i know okay see as someone in the chat room pointed out uh i got an

01:10:59   xdr last year mark ago and this year uh 2021 is your year so start saving now i don't i i'm

01:11:08   thinking to myself man in so many ways what marco is describing is describing is very appealing like

01:11:13   leaving the money aside just for a second i think a macbook air or a macbook pro i i think for

01:11:20   either reasonable or unreasonable reasons that i would prefer a 13-inch macbook pro

01:11:25   i'd really like four ports and and i don't mind the touch bar like i don't actively like it but

01:11:31   i don't actively dislike it either um and so i've already been kind of planning that when the direct

01:11:37   replacement for my current laptop comes out which would be a 13-inch four port macbook pro i'll

01:11:41   probably go ahead and upgrade it um but i'm hearing you talk about the pro display xdr and i'm hearing

01:11:47   you talk about the one computer lifestyle which was my lifestyle for a long time and i just keep

01:11:52   thinking man that does sound good but i cannot imagine being able to justify to myself spending

01:12:00   what seven thousand dollars on a computer monitor much less sending it through the family cfo who

01:12:05   would have very strong opinions about this particular idea so uh yeah i just don't see

01:12:12   it happening um but if you would like it to happen listeners atp.fm join may i strongly recommend

01:12:18   it'd be a great idea no seriously casey for you i would say suck up your pride sell the new 13-inch

01:12:26   and get this air instead it's you know i i i don't think it's about pride it's just that i

01:12:32   i don't mind being wrong about having gotten the laptop i think the laptop was a good purchase and

01:12:36   i made it at the right time i needed to make it um i i just i have convinced myself for you know

01:12:43   right wrong or indifferent that i don't want to lose the four ports now if you start quizzing me

01:12:48   about how often do i use all four ports you know is this really a problem the answer is almost never

01:12:52   and no but i i really i really don't love the idea of losing what i've got in the same way you were

01:12:59   talking about not loving the idea of going from 6k to 5k like could you go from 6k to 5k one day oh

01:13:04   yeah absolutely you could but do you want to eh maybe not yeah i would love to have four ports on

01:13:11   this thing like that that is something that i do miss i would love to have four ports and if there

01:13:16   is ever a 13-inch four port model that i hear is totally silent in practice maybe i would switch to

01:13:23   that or maybe i will go back up to the 16 someday i don't know um i i do like the big size frequently

01:13:30   so you know we'll see how that goes but this like and and i think it is important to clarify like

01:13:36   and for you know for you and for anybody else who's bought an intel mac recently and and kind

01:13:39   of now regrets it like we had no idea first of all we had no idea when each product line would be

01:13:47   updated and we had no idea how much faster things would be even on the low-end machines yeah like we

01:13:56   knew that we knew the arm chips were fast you know we knew they were fast in the context of a phone

01:14:01   or an ipad and we could see the geek bank scores and we could say wow these these things are pretty

01:14:05   competitive with like desktops and single-threaded stuff but i don't think anybody had any idea in in

01:14:11   the public you know in as buyers or as commenters like us on podcasts we didn't have any idea that

01:14:18   you know when you were buying your 13-inch what six months ago yeah it was it was like late may

01:14:23   early june so like you know seven or eight months ago we had no idea that in seven months from then

01:14:29   there would be this radical improvement in the lineup that would be so massive to that exact

01:14:37   product line or to a very similar product line as that one uh like no you couldn't have known

01:14:42   the good thing is right now these things are all still worth money at resale because a lot of

01:14:49   people still need intel stuff and if you don't you can take advantage of this time and get like a

01:14:58   whoopsie undo like let me undo that like like my mac mini like this purchase that i made earlier

01:15:03   this year i am literally trading it in for almost the entire price of a new one that's way better

01:15:11   than it this is a good time to have some recent intel mac hardware to sell and to not need anything

01:15:20   that the current m1s can't do or don't address very well like again if i was like doing video

01:15:25   stuff where i need not only big screens but also like tons of multi-threaded gpu performance like

01:15:31   these are not great for that kind of thing if if you have like a mac pro or imac pro at your

01:15:37   disposal instead those are better for that but i don't do that like i i did briefly once

01:15:42   i don't do that now and for what i do this is fantastic and for many people do this is fantastic

01:15:49   so this this really is you know like as matthew tellers email said like this is a once in a

01:15:54   generation jump this is a really like massive shift in the industry i do agree that intel max

01:16:01   are wrap the depreciating assets or they they will be soon so much is better on the m1 already

01:16:08   and i also think that apple you know apple has the best of intentions they're going to keep supporting

01:16:14   the intel max for a while but whether your mac is on apple silicon or intel is going to be a line in

01:16:21   the sand for software updates and compatibility down the road we don't know when how far down

01:16:28   the road that's going to happen but a mac bot today that has an apple chip in it will get

01:16:33   software updates and will probably be you know useful to people for a longer period of time than

01:16:39   an intel machine bought today so this it is a distinction that i think has great value over

01:16:45   time in addition to just how much nicer they are and things like heat and noise and stuff like that

01:16:49   i do think this is this is worth taking advantage of if your needs can be met with these

01:16:58   yeah i hear you and it makes a lot of sense to unload one or both of my computers now when

01:17:04   they're still worth a lot more but i don't know i i don't change computers like i change underwear

01:17:09   unlike some of us so i'm reluctant to do anything at the moment especially since i would be getting

01:17:16   something that is sufficient but not what i really and truly want like that's fair i i'm the kind of

01:17:22   person that i'd rather wait for what i really and truly want even if that ends up costing me a

01:17:27   little bit in a loss of resale value in the thing that i've currently got yeah fair enough all right

01:17:34   we got to move on because we've been told that dad is going to be real upset at us if he doesn't

01:17:39   get a chance to talk about his new toys so john the time has finally come we cannot procrastinate

01:17:47   anymore because you said you were going to do it this year tell me about your playstation 5 please

01:17:52   i forget if we if i talked about that i wanted to do the playstation 5 review before the end of the

01:17:57   year in the bootleg or the regular show but it is a thing i wanted to do um i've had a playstation

01:18:03   5 since launch uh yes i'm very lucky to get one thank you very much to a listener who helped me

01:18:09   out in this endeavor um and i wanted to talk about it i can't give you a super comprehensive review

01:18:15   for a couple of reasons one uh when consoles launch there's not always a lot of games that

01:18:20   take advantage of them or not a lot of games period and two even if there were i wouldn't

01:18:24   be playing those games but i will tell you what my experience has been and why i got it to begin

01:18:30   with why did i even want a launch playstation 5 um i wanted it for one main reason um a i play

01:18:37   destiny all the time i've talked about that before i got my fancy mac and this big fancy screen and

01:18:44   my big fancy video card partly so that i could play destiny in a way that i hadn't played it

01:18:48   before play the pc version of destiny the pc version destiny has two things that my old

01:18:53   playstation 4 pro did not have uh well a couple things one uh uncapped frame rate uh the playstation

01:19:00   4 versions of destinies have been capped at 30 frames per second um and i you know the pc version

01:19:06   has not been so the pc version will play it as fast as you can possibly play it and to uh hdr the

01:19:13   playstation 4 version of destiny i believe did support hdr but i don't have an hdr monitor

01:19:17   connected to my uh playstation 4 and my ridiculously expensive aforementioned pro display

01:19:25   xdr turns out to be an hdr display so i spent a lot of time and energy getting windows 10 to run

01:19:32   destiny through steam on my hdr monitor uh at high frame rates at high resolution and we talked about

01:19:41   this on past shows i couldn't get it to run well at 6k because my video card is just not strong

01:19:45   enough but at 4k i could get comfortably over 60 frames per second with hdr and it was pretty super

01:19:51   cool the other thing that the pc version of destiny has that the console version does not

01:19:56   is an adjustable field of view and that's basically like how wide you can see like if you

01:20:03   had a 360 degree field of view you could see everything in front of you and in back of you

01:20:07   all on your flat screen right um and if you had a very narrow field of view you could just see the

01:20:11   stuff that's right in front of you so it's if you kind of think it was like a fisheye lens the wider

01:20:15   the field of view the more things look kind of fisheye right um the where this becomes relevant

01:20:21   for console versus pc is the narrower the field of view the fewer triangles are in view and the

01:20:27   fewer things need to be drawn by the gpu so a higher field of view all other things being equal

01:20:32   takes more you know computing power to display and just like the uncapped frame rates on pc the pc

01:20:39   platform you have variable hardware and if you have really beefy hardware you can do things like

01:20:44   have more pixels and higher frame rate and yes a bigger field of view so up until you know the

01:20:50   playstation 5 i had my choice was like a playing console at 30 frames per second with the whatever

01:20:57   the default field of view was like 75 degrees or something like that um or i could play on my

01:21:03   quote-unquote pc at 4k 60 frames per second and up to a field of view of 105. um and the reason by

01:21:11   the way the reason you want a wilder wider field of view is if you're playing pvp which is what i

01:21:15   play a lot of a wider field of view basically gives you better peripheral vision so you can

01:21:19   see more you have a better situational awareness of what's going on around me what's to my left

01:21:24   what's to my right because it is giving you a literally a wider view of the world in the same

01:21:28   monitor right so uh i wanted a playstation 5 because i knew based on bungee's announcement

01:21:35   that the playstation 5 version of destiny was going to offer higher frame rates than 30 frames

01:21:40   per second minimum 60 frames per second up to 120 frames per second in the pvp mode for a slight

01:21:46   downgrading graphical quality and adjustable field of view and also hdr um so and and what do i do

01:21:54   with my console time i play destiny i do it all the time right so i got my playstation 5 basically

01:22:00   so i could continue playing the exact same game that i've been playing in playstation 4 but now

01:22:05   i get to play it at 60 frames per second at 105 degree field of view and if i had an hd monitor

01:22:10   i could be playing in hdr i don't have an hd monitor i didn't buy one because as far as i'm

01:22:15   aware there are no monitors available right now that if it support hdmi 2.1 which is what the

01:22:22   playstation 5 outputs at and our hdr ips and support 120 frames per second from the ps5 you

01:22:29   can get an oled tv that does that but the smallest they come in is 48 inches and that is way too big

01:22:34   for the place where i play this i have a 27 inch display here right so i'm still waiting for

01:22:39   someone to put out a 27 inch ips hdr panel with a nice stand that's not ugly that does 120 frames

01:22:47   per second so right now i'm just playing at 60 good luck with that oh they're coming they're

01:22:52   absolutely coming like there's a market for this the only reason it's just because hdmi 2.1 is so

01:22:55   new that only the the new xbox console the ps5 supported all the other consoles didn't because

01:23:01   they were previous generation right so these monitors are coming they're probably going to

01:23:05   be expensive but whatever but for now i'm dealing without the hdr so that's what i did when i got a

01:23:11   playstation 5 i was like great i have a you know i had to wait actually for another destiny update

01:23:15   and there was a recent expansion to destiny right so this is my new destiny playing machine which

01:23:20   is a boring way to use a new console but it wasn't boring to me because this is what i've been

01:23:24   waiting for and it doesn't mean that my mac is retired from doing this because my mac can also

01:23:28   crank up the graphics a little bit higher than the ps5 can and there are other games i play on

01:23:33   it and the mac is still the only thing with hdr display but in general i get to play destiny better

01:23:39   that said the playstation 5 comes with a game already installed on it i don't know if it comes

01:23:45   with the game disc if you buy the disc one but i got the digital one so there's no disc drive in it

01:23:49   and it came with astro's playroom installed which is more of like a tech demo if you think kind of

01:23:55   well people have been comparing it to nintendo land but i think it's even more slight than that

01:23:59   nintendo land came with the wii u to sort of demonstrate the new capabilities astro's playroom

01:24:03   is a cute little platformer from sony where you just you know make this little robot guy hop

01:24:09   around and do platforming things and all the levers levels are filled with sony nostalgia like

01:24:15   there's lots of little robots are acting out scenes from famous playstation games in the

01:24:19   background and everything and what you collect at the end are these shiny high fidelity models

01:24:25   of sony hardware and then you get to put you know it's it's a very sony type thing but the whole

01:24:29   point of this is to demonstrate the capabilities of your new console and in particular the

01:24:34   capabilities of the new controller the dual sense controller they're really stuck on the dual dual

01:24:40   shock what was the dual shock two three four was it always dual shock i forget what they go anyway

01:24:45   now it's dual sense and i'm sure you've seen reviews of this controller if you keep up with the

01:24:53   console space you may think okay so it's a controller with different motorized little

01:24:58   thingies inside it so what right that's why asterisk playroom is here because i'm not sure

01:25:02   how much third-party games are going to take advantage of all the features of this controller

01:25:05   certainly destiny 2 doesn't take full advantage of it and in fact i have rumble turned off in destiny

01:25:10   because it messes with my aim and pvp um but asterisk playroom uh is a it's first of all it's

01:25:17   a fun little game to play and if you're a sony fan the nostalgia thing really works but it is an

01:25:23   amazing demo of the controller the controller basically the things that it has uh in it that

01:25:27   it didn't have before are fancier uh vibration motors bigger fancier vibration motors if you

01:25:34   think about as the difference between like the vibration motor and maybe the iphone 3g

01:25:38   right is that i think that was the last one to have the uh the little motor that turns with a

01:25:45   with a semicircle weight attached to the axle right that's what used to be in most controllers

01:25:52   right and of course in modern iphones we have the haptic engine which is that linear whatever the

01:25:57   hell it's called yeah it's more like a speaker driver right i'm pretty sure that's what's in the

01:26:03   dual sense but either way it's it's a more sophisticated kind of vibration thing that

01:26:08   you can programmatically control to a much finer degree so it's got that and then it's also got

01:26:14   um motors that are able to resist you pulling the triggers which sounds like something you would

01:26:22   think would like break or like well you know you can't stop me from pulling the triggers with these

01:26:26   tiny little motors like what how is that even going to work like it's basically like when you

01:26:30   pull the trigger it turns a little through a series of gears it turns a little corkscrew gear

01:26:34   on the axle of the motor and that's it and you control electricity in the motor to oppose that

01:26:39   force right um and that's and that's also what was it that's got a touch pad on and it's got a bunch

01:26:47   of little things got a microphone built in it's got a bunch of other features but those vibration

01:26:51   and trigger haptics are the main additions but because both of them are able to be controlled

01:26:56   so precisely by the game uh astros playroom demos this uh very well you can make experiences that

01:27:05   feel different than they did with previous generation consoles so astros playroom has

01:27:09   you run across sand and ice and rocks and jump off of things and land on things and all that is just

01:27:14   like okay well we'll make the vibration motor vibrate a different amount how can you make

01:27:19   vibrating a different amount feel like ice versus feel like sand versus feel like mud they managed

01:27:24   to do it like it you know obviously you're still holding a controller you don't feel mud on the

01:27:29   bottom of your feet this is not vr right but it is way better than the old haptics and it is fun it

01:27:36   adds an element of you know immersion to the game and then the trigger resistance i thought would be

01:27:42   annoying but it's it's kind of amazing how much it feels like like it's a hardware feature like oh

01:27:48   suddenly my controller has a stop midway through where you have to press real hard then you go

01:27:52   through the stop and it gets easy right you can do things like that where they're not you know

01:27:57   they haven't mechanically changed your controller but it feels like now it's a two-step controller

01:28:02   or a three-step one now it's hard to press now it's easy to press like you know they have a thing

01:28:06   where you have to control the uh the triggers to control these paws of a robotic monkey and

01:28:11   every time you reach and grasp for something and click onto it it becomes easy once you grab it

01:28:14   right very cool features that are basically it reminds me of the wiu and it's like all right

01:28:20   technologically it's not that amazing it's just a controller with motors in it but it's an experience

01:28:25   you haven't had before while playing a console game the wiu had way more of these it's a console

01:28:29   that almost nobody used and it's a shame because i think nintendo land on the wiu is an amazing

01:28:34   demonstration of a ton of different fun mechanics and games that had never been seen before and

01:28:40   haven't been seen since um so i don't know how many games are going to take advantage of this

01:28:45   but astros playroom demonstrates the potential for it to be super cool uh like to give a recent

01:28:51   example if uh if the last of us part three was a thing that ever existed like that type of game

01:28:57   i can imagine benefiting immensely from this type of control so it's not in such a gimmicky you know

01:29:02   fun way as astros playroom but just sort of woven into the way the game plays it would be super cool

01:29:10   and speaking of the controller ios 14.3 beta that's how old the story was according to i'm or

01:29:16   um the beta had support added support for the ps5 controller to ios i haven't tested it with 14.3

01:29:24   release but i assume that it's in there so you could always use the uh not always but in the past

01:29:30   versions of ios you could use the uh playstation 4 controller with your ipad or iphone and i've

01:29:36   done that several times and now you can use the ps5 controller um those are the only games i've

01:29:42   played on the playstation 5 is astros playroom which i finished and it was fun and uh tons and

01:29:47   tons of destiny so the only other thing i have to add to this review of the ps5 is to talk about the

01:29:52   controller my favorite thing in the world uh not the parts that i talked about but like the

01:29:57   controller as a controller right so aesthetically it's like the rest of the playstation 5 where they

01:30:02   try to do like a two-tone thing where it's like a white shell wrapped around a black interior i was

01:30:07   worried about that because that's entirely an aesthetic thing there's nothing mechanically

01:30:10   about like it's not actually a white shell wrapped around a black interior that's a design element

01:30:14   and i don't want additional seams or gaps or like here's the shell and here's the interior on the

01:30:20   controller because that's not it's just going to make it uncomfortable right um so i was worried

01:30:25   about that and also they changed the shape subtly from from the dualshock 4 or whatever the

01:30:30   playstation 4 controller was and i love the playstation 4 controller shape wise um i thought

01:30:35   they did a good job this is a different shape uh but the shape is also good uh if they managed to

01:30:42   keep the seams away from where my hands go on the controller so the fact that they have a you know

01:30:47   a black interior and white exterior that is not not relevant to how i hold the controller which

01:30:54   was a relief um they did something clever with the buttons uh if you're wondering if the layout

01:31:00   changed it's the same layout as the dualshock 4 as all the dual shocks so the d-pad is where the

01:31:04   analog stick should be but whatever you know it's it's the way it's always been the buttons are still

01:31:09   in an exact diamond shape the two analog sticks in the same place like everything is the same so no

01:31:14   real movement of the major controller notes but the buttons again i think they did this for

01:31:18   aesthetics but it's smart design wise as well the buttons are clear which looks cool uh the reason

01:31:25   it's smart design wise is because each of the buttons has a particularly the the buttons on

01:31:30   the right side this triangle circle x and square right those symbols are underneath a clear piece

01:31:37   of plastic so the symbols are not printed on the top of the clear piece you can see them by looking

01:31:43   through the you know four millimeter thick piece of clear plastic which means that no matter how

01:31:48   much you press these buttons you're never going to wear the symbols off and that's a problem with lots

01:31:52   of controllers now most people use the controllers don't need to see the symbols but your controller

01:31:55   looks crappy if after a long time the x is slowly wearing off because you have you know an alien

01:32:01   acid stuff coming out of your fingers and we all know people like this and something that you can't

01:32:06   help like how acidic is the ooze that comes out of your fingers just look at someone's laptop

01:32:11   keyboard look to see if the e key is slowly disappearing right or even just the keys being

01:32:16   polished or whatever same thing with game controllers if you are unlucky and have that type

01:32:20   of hand secretions you'll wear the symbols off your control that doesn't look good they solve

01:32:26   the problem you're never going to wear these off they're under they're under a really thick layer

01:32:29   of clear plastic um the actual plastic of the controller the bottom half i didn't realize this

01:32:38   until i got it in real life the bottom half of the controller is textured plastic it is textured in

01:32:43   this a little bit too cute way that sony textured the playstation 5 console itself in that you know

01:32:50   it's white plastic and it feels a little bit rough but if you zoom way way in you see the roughness

01:32:54   is not just a random stippling pattern it is those symbols which have become part of the playstation

01:33:00   brand triangle circle x and square there are you know thousands and millions of triangles circles

01:33:07   x's and squares tiny tiny ones making up the texture of the plastic it's it's very clever

01:33:14   it's very cool but you can't see it unless you zoom way way in uh texturing just the bottom half

01:33:20   is nice because texturing for grip is good but like it is rougher right and so i'm kind of glad

01:33:29   that the part where my the you know where i'm pressing the buttons i'm not scraping my finger

01:33:33   against a rougher plastic on the top surface because the top surface is not textured um so

01:33:39   that's a nice touch the only problem with the texturing is and the fact that the controller

01:33:44   is white is that where my fingers contact the textured bottom it is slowly removing dirt and

01:33:49   grime from my fingers and depositing it onto the white controller uh so this started out as a white

01:33:57   controller and now it's a white controller with some slowly darkening smudge marks from my human

01:34:04   fingers rubbing against the bottom of the control they do make a black version of the controller now

01:34:08   too and this will be far less visible there i think the white control looks cooler maybe i'll

01:34:12   have to actually wash it and and believe me i'm washing my hands before i use my playstation

01:34:16   i'm not going in super dirty it's just that like the texture is rough enough to slowly exfoliate

01:34:23   let's say gently exfoliate your under here under controller fingers adding a little darkening mark

01:34:30   there um the fact that the controller has a microphone built into it and a mute button on it

01:34:34   is great for people like it lowers the barrier to entry of like i don't want to have a headset i

01:34:39   don't want to use like a little earbud this little earbud that came with the ps4 was always so

01:34:43   delicate and so easy to break you just want to be able to play right out of the box if you don't

01:34:47   care about audio quality or whatever it's got a microphone there already the the asterisk playroom

01:34:52   does the same thing from the who did this first the switch no uh i don't know so whatever nintendo

01:34:57   console first did the thing where you blow into the controller and like a fan spins on the screen

01:35:01   do you guys remember that no i'm sorry to ruin this as surprising to never sub this so sorry

01:35:08   maybe it was the ds summer sorry to ruin the surprise and delight but there's there's like

01:35:12   a bunch of party games i think maybe it was on nintendo ds and it's at one point you're confronted

01:35:16   with like a pinwheel like a little kitty pinwheels you know and to progress you have to blow and it's

01:35:23   because the ds or whatever was has a microphone on it and once you figure out you had to blow in real

01:35:28   life and the microphone picks up like the static of you blowing right it's amazing right because

01:35:34   it's a very simple trick a simple gag with very simple hardware but the first time you figure that

01:35:40   out and it works you're like wow this is magic and then you know you eventually figured how they did

01:35:44   it but um i can't remember who did it first there's lots of examples from later nintendo history i'm

01:35:49   thinking it was probably the ds but anyway sunny does it on the ps5 too in the asterisk playroom

01:35:54   only they kind of ruin the surprise by telling you uh blow blow into the controller it's like

01:35:59   you know it's a little bit better with a handheld because the handheld has to be in front of you

01:36:03   whereas the controller is in your lap so they do kind of have to tell you to pick the controller up

01:36:06   having a mute button on the controller is nice too uh it's got built-in rechargeable batteries

01:36:12   instead of replaceable which i like i like it to be built in and sealed it's got little recharging

01:36:16   nubbins so you can put it in this little recharging dock or you can just plug it in it's usb-c yay

01:36:22   finally um and the console itself has a usb-c ports and usb-a ports including usb-a ports in

01:36:29   the back which is nice because sony's wireless headphones still require usb-a port but you don't

01:36:33   want to see that sticking out the front the usb-c port is faster i bought a new usb-c thumb drive to

01:36:39   transfer my destiny recordings that i make videos out of why because for some reason sony thinks the

01:36:45   only way to get data off a playstation is through a thumb drive it's connected to the network what

01:36:50   year so how's my computer these are full-fledged computers please let me transfer data from my

01:36:56   playstation 5 drive to my mac they're like nope would you like to write it to a usb thumb drive

01:37:01   so that's why i have to get like the fastest possible usb thumb drive to max out the speed

01:37:06   available on the fastest usb port on the playstation 5 but these videos are huge so

01:37:12   and you can record in uh in 4k now which is nice i don't think you can record it over 30 frames

01:37:17   per second i have to look at the captures to see what frame rate i'm getting from but that's another

01:37:23   potential advantage of the new console if you manually initiate recording you can record at 4k

01:37:27   if you don't manually initiate it it's just always recording right it's always recording like a 30

01:37:31   minute buffer or whatever which is a great feature that debuted in the playstation 4 and i still use

01:37:35   like you don't have to think about recording it's just after something cool happens in the game you

01:37:40   just say great and you said let me capture that the playstation 5 has more granularity of how

01:37:44   much you can record it'll say like do you want me to capture the last five minutes last 30 seconds

01:37:48   the last 30 minutes whatever so you don't have to constantly make these videos that are a fixed

01:37:54   length long like i always used to make 15 minute long videos even if i just wanted to last 30

01:37:58   seconds because that was the only option available unless you went to the preferences or whatever

01:38:02   so yeah uh playstation 5 my review is thumbs up uh if you want to play destiny and play it better

01:38:10   than you were playing it before the playstation 5 does an amazing job oh i guess one more thing

01:38:14   fan noise playstation 5 is huge lol uh what you get for that hugeness is the fan noise is less

01:38:23   than it's less than the original playstation 4 it's less than the playstation 4 pro

01:38:27   it is both quieter and less annoying it is not silent you can hear it it's got a humongous fan

01:38:35   in there but the humongous fan makes a more pleasant noise at a lower volume

01:38:41   and i never see my ps5 because it is hidden away underneath the desk that i'm playing on

01:38:45   but it is massive so measure whether you have room for the stupid thing in your life it's massive and

01:38:53   it's not particularly attractive but i don't really care it does the job so anyway playstation 5 you

01:38:59   should go out and buy one i think they're available in stores everywhere hahaha no they're not oh well

01:39:05   good i'm glad we covered that yep and you guys should pick up some playstation fives as soon as

01:39:10   you can because they'll be very important for when we do the atp plays destiny together member special

01:39:16   sometime in the distant future yeah and when that happens i'll pick one up yep you can get the

01:39:24   playstation 5 slim which will be slightly smaller maybe it'll be a 1u rack mount case it's slim

01:39:32   marco you have gotten some christmas gifts that you'd like to discuss with us

01:39:39   yes uh so one gift that i got um ostensibly for my kid but it's kind of like a family gift in

01:39:49   practice uh i have a family of gamers i did not get a ps5 for anybody or have one given to me

01:39:55   because we don't really want one yet but we've been kind of curious about vr for a little while

01:40:02   you know we are a family of me plus gamers and we tried vr back years ago at xoxo in portland

01:40:13   we went to somebody's office who had the i believe it was the htc vive it was one of the very first

01:40:18   like you know mainstream vr headsets that was available and we tried it for like five minutes

01:40:22   and you know just like punch some boxes around in some kind of demo room or something and it was

01:40:27   interesting but that was that was the only experience i had with it really our family was

01:40:31   curious about it um and again like you know adam and tiff are pretty heavy gamers i'm kind of a

01:40:36   casual sometimes gamer uh and so i decided you know i had heard amazing things about vr but

01:40:42   the thing that always turned me off about it was the need for a gaming pc like you know some pc

01:40:48   that you either had a long wire that was wired to that you had to like make sure you don't trip over

01:40:54   the wire or get it tangled up in your arms or whatever which doesn't sound like a lot of fun

01:40:59   or i know people have tried things like building backpacks that have like the pc in the backpack

01:41:04   so you don't have to have a long wire but instead you can sound safe yeah people people never fall

01:41:09   down when they're using vr right that's yeah that seemed like a solution that you know

01:41:15   if that works for you great but that's that wasn't going to work for us it's like those backpack

01:41:20   vacuum cleaners you know yeah use if you have to vacuum a large place but you don't want to be

01:41:24   lugging behind like the canister you just put it on your back but the same amount of noise too

01:41:28   exactly wow exactly and i figured also like that wouldn't have a good chance of working on

01:41:34   our eight-year-old kid very well either so yeah so we ruled that option out for now and we weren't

01:41:40   going to build an entire gaming pc desktop just to try to see if we like vr or not you know because

01:41:48   i didn't know like our family is sometimes sensitive to motion sickness so like are we

01:41:52   i'm not going to invest in a giant desktop pc gaming rig only to find out five seconds into

01:41:58   gaming oh none of us can do this because it makes us all motion sick anyway so i decided i had heard

01:42:05   about the oculus um not the go what's the other one the the other wireless oculus thing they

01:42:12   their names i keep forgetting is that the quest and the quest 2 is that the one yeah quest okay

01:42:18   so i heard about the oculus quest earlier this year um our friend cgp gray got one and was raving

01:42:23   about like how how good it was and i looked into what that was and i learned that it's it's a vr

01:42:29   headset that is self-contained that you know there's no wire that runs to a pc it is just

01:42:34   self-contained and it runs you know lower end but usable hardware in the helmet and that sounded

01:42:40   great to me that sounded like exactly like what we were looking for for like we want an entry an

01:42:45   entry into the world of vr but we don't want the the big full-sized rig and we don't really care

01:42:50   that much about the hardware trade-offs required to get that so great there was a downside in that

01:42:58   facebook owns oculus and they made this decision that i'm still not sure why they made it but

01:43:07   facebook decided to basically end oculus accounts sometime soon and require all new purchasers

01:43:14   of these vr headsets to use facebook accounts to manage you know the headset itself to log into the

01:43:20   headset to use it to manage all your purchases and all your online gameplay and to require a facebook

01:43:26   account for a vr headset is as baffling as it sounds and has angered many people to the point

01:43:36   where if you look at any review of the oculus quest or quest 2 it's filled with people who are

01:43:42   super angry about this and are refusing to use their oculus hardware or refusing to buy new

01:43:49   oculus hardware as a result frankly i i don't know why it's worth it for facebook to continue and not

01:43:55   relent on this front but they are continuing and not relating on this front so far so anyway i

01:44:00   again i don't know why it seems to make no sense to me why facebook would would continue to push

01:44:04   this for seemingly very little gain and for a gain they don't really need anyway they are

01:44:12   and so if you don't have a facebook account or you uh you know don't want to tie your facebook

01:44:19   activity to this piece of hardware that needs to know it for no reason uh then this is not for you

01:44:27   and i understand that i didn't have a facebook account for a while but i did keep using instagram

01:44:32   and there's no difference there like and so like i tweeted about this the other day like i i've

01:44:37   decided that i you know i i need i recently needed to recreate a facebook account for various real

01:44:44   life purposes that are not interesting to the show but i i had to make a facebook account i realized

01:44:49   like i'm being stupid here i've continued to use instagram this entire time and i've been like i

01:44:55   don't have a facebook account but like that that makes no difference if i'm using instagram i wasn't

01:44:59   achieving anything by not having a facebook account i wasn't making any kind of real stand

01:45:04   about my politics or my privacy by not having facebook but having instagram so i decided well

01:45:11   i i needed a facebook account for some real life reasons so i'm like fine i'll just create a stupid

01:45:15   facebook account and i'll put nothing in it except for the bare minimum that i need to get this stuff

01:45:20   done and so i had one and so i could connect it to the oculus hardware so that was not a problem for

01:45:27   me but if it's a problem for you i understand completely anyway so i decided to get the quest

01:45:32   two which was released a few months back and had great reviews and i couldn't besides the facebook

01:45:38   thing i couldn't find anything wrong with it in the reviews so we got it gave it to adam on

01:45:42   christmas morning he absolutely flipped his mind like he was so happy like he basically exploded

01:45:50   and so it went very well as a gift and then the family had to play and i've i've had you know

01:45:56   maybe four days of playing with it so far between various members of the family and i have some very

01:46:02   very early impressions i'll go through fairly quickly number one motion is a bit of a problem

01:46:10   like the motion sickness or motion nausea is a bit of a problem for at least me and tiff and a couple

01:46:18   other people who have tried it in the household like you know family who have tried it and i don't

01:46:24   think it's going to be a huge problem in that like i can still use it but i can't find any settings

01:46:32   between like the little eyepiece moving bits or the head strap or anything i can't find any way

01:46:38   where everything on screen is sharp i can get some things sharp some of the time

01:46:46   but i can't get it so that everything is sharp and it seems to just be like maybe just a fit issue

01:46:53   like the little like eye spready spacing things it's not a continuous setting where you can set

01:46:58   exactly how spaced apart your eyes are it's like just three notches like just three fixed settings

01:47:02   and so maybe my settings between them i don't know but for whatever it is i can't get it to a point

01:47:09   where it is sharp and that makes it so that sometimes when i use it even just doing simple

01:47:15   things like looking around the menus makes me feel a little bit sick and i have to stop

01:47:20   but sometimes i can play it for a half hour straight and have no problems at all

01:47:24   so i don't i haven't quite figured out you know how to manage that well yet but it might just be

01:47:28   i just might not be compatible very well with either vr as a whole or this particular hardware

01:47:35   well one of the problems with motion sickness with vr is that the hardware is not yet fast

01:47:42   enough and certainly is the case for a mobile thing like the quest right because anytime there

01:47:47   is a mismatch between what your eyes see and what your inner ear feels that's where you get motion

01:47:52   sickness so if the frame if the images on the screen lag even by a frame or two when you move

01:47:59   your head just like a half an inch right that's a mismatch that your brain can detect if you have

01:48:04   faster hardware at a higher frame rate that's more reactive with better you know alignment with you

01:48:09   know whatever it's using the whether it uses the accelerometers or cameras or there's all sorts of

01:48:15   different ways to try to orient yourself but like there's in any vr hardware that's available now

01:48:20   there is some lag between you moving your head and the image changing on the screen they try to make

01:48:24   that lag as small as possible but any lag at all has the potential to introduce motion sickness so

01:48:30   even if you had perfectly in focus stuff the fact that what you're seeing in front of you

01:48:35   is a couple milliseconds behind what your head is doing and may not exactly match what your head

01:48:39   is doing depending on how the orientation detection works that's that's your formula

01:48:46   for motion sickness so i don't expect that to go away for a long time because you need very very

01:48:51   fiendishly fast hardware and very accurate head tracking to you know eliminate that essentially

01:48:58   yeah and and i think that you know that's probably part of the problem i think another part of the

01:49:01   problem is just like the design of some of the games i've tried is such that like you just keep

01:49:06   like it keeps like popping you to different places you're moving to different places because you can't

01:49:10   walk there yeah i mean there's a reason for that it's like they like in general keeping your body

01:49:16   still they're actually trying to help you i mean yes you're right that you can't physically walk

01:49:20   because you'll hit the wall of your house right but they're trying to help you not be as motion

01:49:24   sick because if you're standing still but what you see in front of your eyes is like a roller

01:49:29   coaster ride that's that's a huge mismatch between like i'm not walking anywhere i'm standing still

01:49:34   why am i suddenly gliding forward really fast so they teleport you to a different place or whatever

01:49:38   they're trying to get you so that you're you know in the game your virtual avatar is also standing

01:49:44   still just like you are to just try to do a better match between what's on screen and what's happening

01:49:48   right and so like that's why the games that work really well are things like beat saber you know

01:49:53   everyone recommended beat saber um i'm okay at it tiff is like amazingly good at it she's really

01:49:59   enjoying it um i i'm okay at it but it's fun but what's good about beat saber is like your virtual

01:50:05   character is standing still and stuff is coming at you that you have to like deflect or whatever

01:50:10   so that kind of thing makes sense another one of the games that i've really surprisingly enjoyed

01:50:15   is 11 table tennis which is just a really well done ping pong table simulator and it's and you're

01:50:22   so in in ping pong you are standing in a small square area making small movements while stuff

01:50:27   happens in front of you that and it replicates that perfectly like you don't have to move your

01:50:31   body that very far in ping pong you can just move within that small you know few square foot area on

01:50:36   the floor that you're standing in behind the virtual ping pong table and it works and like

01:50:40   that by the way the game is so delightful like you like wake up and you're just in some guy's

01:50:43   apartment and there's a ping pong table and that's it's just it's such a fun world and it's so

01:50:48   well done like the the sound of the ball hitting things it's perfect like it the way the ball is

01:50:55   about like it's an incredibly well-done game highly recommend 11 table tennis if you're a vr person

01:51:00   and i haven't played anything multiplayer yet i can imagine it would be even more fun if you

01:51:04   were playing against a real human instead of like the ai torso that you play against normally that

01:51:11   was one of the most fun motion control games i played not vr but like for the playstation

01:51:15   3 sony had motion control stuff the ones that look like a glowing lollipop it's like a black

01:51:20   stick with a glowing ball on top of it and i think was it rockstar that made the ping pong game some

01:51:25   big name game company made a motion control ping pong game that used those motion control things

01:51:31   as the paddles and it was perfect for the same reason you said that you're standing in front of

01:51:35   the tv and the thing you're holding might as well be a ping pong paddle like it's instead of a paddle

01:51:41   on top it has a glowing ball and it just worked so well for like even though it wasn't vr you might

01:51:46   as well have been vr because on the screen is the table and the ball's coming out of the screen at

01:51:51   you and you wave this controller and it was it was amazing it was the best simulation i'd ever seen

01:51:56   i'm sure vr is even better but i i remember that being impressed the the good match between what

01:52:02   can you do while standing in front of your tv holding a stick and that kind of game yeah it is

01:52:07   kind of i was highly amused the fact i was sitting there thinking like you know the first video game

01:52:11   was pong all right and then i think like what what did we do back then and with the hardware we had

01:52:18   that now we've made this incredible these incredible advances and we've come to the point now where we

01:52:25   now have pong again just way better in all these different ways but still we're still playing the

01:52:32   same game everything's a remix so anyway so ping pong is awesome um mini golf putt putt we have this

01:52:40   we've got walkabout mini golf that's been pretty fun too that that does have the issue where you

01:52:45   keep having to like teleport to your ball but you like you pull the trigger and it teleports you to

01:52:49   be right in front of your ball and you can walk around within that spot but you know it's a mini

01:52:53   golf course so you hit the ball and it's going to move more than a few feet away so you're going to

01:52:57   have to keep teleporting like after every stroke and so you you teleport to your ball and then you

01:53:01   got to like kind of reorient yourself where am i oh oh here i am you know you look around oh

01:53:05   the water's behind me now or whatever so that's it's a it's you know a little bit you know jarring

01:53:10   to move around like that um we haven't yet tried any like driving or flying games because that i

01:53:17   think i fear the motion component of those i did try there was like a like a nature film thing

01:53:23   which like you know view this cool nature documentary in 3d so it seemed like you're

01:53:27   underwater and looking at all these fish swimming by and i couldn't get through that because it

01:53:32   wasn't like the right i think the screen resolution wasn't good enough or it wasn't sharp enough

01:53:36   or the motion of the camera moving was too weird that one made me feel sick so i had to stop that

01:53:42   but the games where you're just like standing still and stuff is happening around you

01:53:46   those seem okay for me so far but i i can't play it for that long but i i will say like

01:53:52   between beat saber and ping pong and mini golf so far that have been kind of the hits among the

01:53:57   family they've been really well received not only by the gamers but also by the non-gamers like we

01:54:05   had parents play and they enjoyed them too and it wasn't weird for them it was like oh yeah i just

01:54:12   put this thing oh i'm in a golf course okay and just start playing and it reminded me a lot of

01:54:17   when the nintendo we came out in was it 2006 like that thanksgiving and holiday season i saw much of

01:54:23   the same effect of like you brought the brand new we over to your family's house and you had like

01:54:27   your parents and your grandparents playing these games and you know having this similar kind of

01:54:32   experiences where you're kind of like semi-virtual with the with the wiimotes and moving you know

01:54:35   having motion control of these virtual worlds on screen and they had broad appeal but i think it

01:54:42   was also largely a novelty and it wore off quickly and i think so far i think that's probably what's

01:54:48   going to happen with us and vr i i think this is really fun but i haven't yet found the killer

01:54:56   thing that i think we're going to be doing for a long time it seems like it's really good for

01:55:00   certain kinds of games and not that good for a broad type for a broad variety of games at least

01:55:07   not yet or maybe not with this hardware or maybe just the software hasn't caught up yet who knows

01:55:11   but it's really good for like the small segment of games like we have our we sports like we have

01:55:16   that is covered but i don't yet know if we're going to really be able to move past that anytime soon

01:55:22   and so i think what's going to happen is i think we're going to play with it a lot for like a month

01:55:28   and then it's not going to get a lot of use but i i could be wrong but i kind of get that feeling so

01:55:33   far that this is really fun this is a great new cool experience to have right now but i don't see

01:55:40   a lot of lasting power in the software library at least what's available for the quest which like

01:55:46   this is a subset of pc vr stuff because it's not running on windows it's not running on intel

01:55:52   hardware like it's running on the embedded hardware in the quest helmet on the quest

01:55:57   platform so like this is not all vr but i have a feeling this is much of this is probably like

01:56:03   a decent representative sample of like what's out the kind of things that are out there

01:56:05   and i i'm not seeing a lot of that depth yet maybe i just haven't looked hard enough or you know it's

01:56:12   only been a few days i also when i was asking for recommendations i did not i specifically said

01:56:18   please no like shooting games because i don't want to get to it now but i'm not into shooting games

01:56:24   it did try super hot it's not the same type of shooting game and speaking of shooting games

01:56:28   though has using this made tiff more interested in playing half-life alex like getting beefier

01:56:34   vr hardware to do that uh i we haven't talked about it yet i mean we're we've we've always been mildly

01:56:39   interesting because we're such big half-life fans i was looking at just like yesterday morning it's

01:56:43   like hey how how easy is a valve index to get these days and it did have a little like finger

01:56:49   adjuster thing to adjust the eye spacing in a variable manner instead of these three fixed

01:56:54   spaces that the quest has so i thought like maybe the quest might be better with me because i i think

01:57:00   if i can get vr gear that fits me better that that where like i can have a full field of vision that's

01:57:07   sharp across the whole thing every time i i think i would have fewer motion issues but i don't

01:57:13   think i like it enough to necessarily make that jump right now and get the pc for it and everything

01:57:18   else because ultimately one thing i love about the quest too is even though it's facebook behind the

01:57:25   scenes and that's really gross it is a really nice experience to have this thing be all in one like

01:57:30   the hardware is well designed the software is all integrated like the their storefronts all

01:57:35   integrated with it and all the games work really well with their like boundary detection and stuff

01:57:40   like that there's no hardware to put around the room like you don't have to have like little like

01:57:46   you know emitters around the room or sensors around the room like you just put the helmet on

01:57:51   and put the controllers in your hand and that's it it senses the room for you you draw where you want

01:57:56   to stay and it makes you stay there there's no other wires like that's all really nice the

01:58:00   experience of using that is very very good and i think if i went into any of the more powerful

01:58:07   pc based solutions for this i think all of the rough edges of the experience that aren't that

01:58:14   nice would irritate me possibly more than the value i would get out of the additional hardware

01:58:19   of the pc stuff real time follow-up uh asked if do you want to play half-life alex more now that

01:58:25   you've played on the quest her answer was absolutely exclamation point so i think you know what you

01:58:29   have to do ah correct well so one thing i did order they they sell a cable that's basically just

01:58:35   a fiber optic 16-foot usb 3 cable with active transmitters on both sides um but yeah they sell

01:58:45   a link cable that you can actually use this headset as a pc headset for you know compatible

01:58:51   software whatever that means and so i bought the cable to try that out to see if we wanted to go

01:58:55   down that route and if it ends up being really cool maybe then i'd order the the valve index you

01:58:59   know if it needs to be better but uh i i'm gonna explore that avenue but i don't i don't know uh

01:59:05   necessarily how it's gonna go or how much of a priority that is with current hardware

01:59:10   because tiff wants a new gaming laptop but ideally like it would have the new rtx generation of gpu

01:59:17   that isn't seemingly available on laptops yet so we'll see how that goes anyway thank you to our

01:59:22   sponsors this week boxcryptor and techmeme ride home and thank you to our wonderful members who

01:59:29   support us directly we want to thank you very much for your support this year this we know we just

01:59:32   launched a membership program this summer you've been wonderful to us so far thank you for your

01:59:36   support if you want to join as a member atp.fm join thank you everybody and we will talk to you

01:59:42   next week now the show is over they didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental

01:59:53   oh it was accidental john didn't do any research margo and kacy wouldn't let him

02:00:01   because it was accidental it was accidental and you can find the show notes at atp.fm

02:00:11   and if you're into twitter you can follow them at c a s e y l i s s so that's kacy list m a r c

02:00:23   o a r m anti-marco armin s i r a c u s a syracuse

02:00:36   minor uh controller follow-up of things i forgot

02:00:50   uh there are two tiny buttons on the playstation 4 controller one of them is the share button

02:00:56   and one of them is like the options menu button they're like the tiniest buttons you could possibly

02:01:00   imagine which is a good idea because they're not important buttons for gameplay they're just for

02:01:04   like menu functionality they're in exactly the same place as they were before but previously

02:01:09   they were tiny sort of lozenge shaped buttons that had a dents in them like little swimming pool dents

02:01:18   right and now they are just uh you know straight-sided lozenges that are flat topped

02:01:26   and it's a downgrade uh the little the little little dimples that they had before felt good

02:01:32   you'd feel for the little dimple you'd press the little dimple it was a great tiny little button

02:01:37   now they're just little tiny sharp edged flat-sided pill-shaped plateaus

02:01:44   downgrade why would you do that i mean again i think it's aesthetics these are more sort of

02:01:48   regular geometric shapes it's not bad they're fine like you feel them they work they're not hard to

02:01:54   press nothing like that but it's like a a minor downgrade on a on a button and it is a button

02:01:59   that you hit a lot especially in destiny you hit the options button a lot and i hit the share button

02:02:03   a lot to capture things or whatever so that's that's kind of a shame and then one more software

02:02:08   thing that i forgot to talk about uh i don't know how to describe this but playstation 5 software

02:02:15   ui is a lot like the playstation 4 one only with more not with more ads but with more more

02:02:21   promotion like when you turn the thing on when like it boots in or whatever there is always this

02:02:29   line of squares by default that is where your cursor is active which is fine except that line

02:02:36   of squares is filled with crap that i don't care about here's the latest game that's available on

02:02:41   the playstation store i don't care here's a bunch of stuff that happened recently in the games you're

02:02:46   playing i don't care i don't want to see any of that stuff now it's one tap away from going away

02:02:52   and doing what you're doing but i do not need and it's not they're not actual i guess the game

02:02:56   things are actual ads it's not like it's advertising viagra or something it's all playstation related

02:03:02   and it is relevant to what i'm doing and what i'm playing for the most part but i don't need to see

02:03:07   that in my face i wish there was a way to get rid of that people have mostly been complaining that

02:03:11   it takes now more taps to put your playstation 5 to sleep because you have to first get off of that

02:03:16   menu onto another menu in general the menus are better than they were on the playstation 4 they're

02:03:22   more logical they're better organized they're graphically better but that whatever that stupid

02:03:26   bar is that has your default input focus that is constantly filled with stuff that it thinks is

02:03:31   relevant to you plus some advertisement for a game you're not interested in that gets a big

02:03:36   thumbs down for me yeah like the whole direction that so much of our hardware has gone and software

02:03:42   has gone in recent years of just turning everything into a like promo fest and a vending machine like

02:03:49   it just it really runs me the wrong way but it seems like you know the the cats out of the barn

02:03:56   door on that one so badly that there's just no going back yeah like like in the the sony's case

02:04:01   like i understand what they're doing it's stuff relevant to games that i'm playing and like even

02:04:06   just the one square they put for like a recent game that came out like it makes sense it is a

02:04:10   game console and you would want to to see that stuff on the screen it's just that there's just

02:04:14   no way to get out get rid of it like you should be able to say okay fine but don't show me that

02:04:19   like kind of like you can with apple stuff like don't show me serious suggestions don't show me

02:04:23   results from the web don't you know like to control sort of the default sort of quick complete

02:04:29   stuff because that's what they're trying to do is like we think these are the the three things

02:04:32   you're most likely to do and sometimes they're right like sometimes if i just did a capture

02:04:36   like the square to the right is the capture that i just made that's probably what i'm going to go

02:04:39   for anyway if i want to trim it or look at it or whatever like that makes sense it's it's a lot

02:04:43   like auto completing but the other ones like there's just lack of control i think they just

02:04:47   need more settings to to trim that down like in other places they expanded like i said when you

02:04:52   do share you have a menu where you can pick what uh you know how long you want to share it's kind

02:04:55   of like the opposite of what they did in big sur with where you can't snooze the notifications

02:05:00   for different amounts of time they added that in the playstation 5 that's the direction to go on

02:05:04   before it was like pick a length and every time you save a clip it'll be that length and playstation

02:05:08   5 is like but why not just in time give them a list of like seven different preset lengths why

02:05:13   not it's a tiny little menu put it there it's like oh so nice look i don't have to go change

02:05:17   the setting it's just in real time i can say snooze for five minutes people don't know what

02:05:21   we're talking about in big sur uh notifications come up uh calendar notifications you used to be

02:05:25   able to snooze them for a certain period of time in a pop-up menu and now what does it do now you

02:05:31   can just say later and you don't get to pick the length yeah it used to be you'd have like you know

02:05:34   15 minutes one hour tomorrow something like that and now it just snooze or not snooze and i think

02:05:39   it's something like 15 minutes and that's it yeah and and you can imagine a plan like but i don't

02:05:43   like those three choices i don't like 15 minutes an hour in a day i wish i could have 90 minutes

02:05:47   or whatever and maybe the next version you think they'd expanded and make customizable but instead

02:05:51   they said nope how about no options how do you like that right that plays 85 so that in general

02:05:57   is going in the right direction but like i think they need a little bit more flexibility and and i

02:06:01   don't mind i don't even mind being like not advertised to but sometimes you do want to know

02:06:07   like oh there's a new update available wherever like that type of information just in time it's

02:06:12   just zero flexibility that i found so far to change that and they're usually good about this

02:06:16   like so many has tons of options for everything they even have an option of like by default do

02:06:20   you want the microphone to be muted when you start playing or not muted and the default is not muted

02:06:26   but i changed it because like i want the default to be muted so i'm not accidentally on microphone

02:06:30   if somehow i connect through audio and i didn't mean to like they're pretty good with options

02:06:34   it's just that the ui is a little bit getting a little bit pushy well because none of those

02:06:38   options make them less money i i i don't even think that's what it is like i understand the

02:06:43   advertising of the game thing but like in general sony tries to give you like it not allowing you to

02:06:50   mute the microphone by default it would be like oh more engagement and get people involved but

02:06:54   they don't they understand it's a privacy thing they're actually pretty good about that stuff

02:06:57   there's a huge list of privacy settings about who can see what you're doing whether you're online

02:07:02   what games that you play your triumphs and you could for all those different things it's very

02:07:06   grainy you can say nobody can see this only my friends can see this only my close friends can see

02:07:11   this friends of frenzy it's a lot like facebook in that regard but the defaults are actually pretty

02:07:15   locked down so much so that you usually have to dive in there and sort of open things up if you

02:07:19   want people to be able to find you to play with you online anyway you should definitely get a

02:07:23   playstation 5 but before that you should get something they can play half-life alex because

02:07:28   tiff wants to play